# Avalanche - all coming down...



## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Hi, forum. I will try to get to the point. Married 20 yrs, 3-kids, house, dream, and MIL. I NEVER thought it would get to this in my life. Been suffering emotionally for some years now. 

Some stuff I am embarrassed and ashamed that it got to this. I am a hard-working, loyal, dedicated,loving father and husband, with a big heart. Never cheated, no drugs, no smoking, drinking, gambling, no guys night out, work-home-work-home. Family oriented, etc. Divorced, angry man-hating MIL has been living with us for too long - Sure enough, I've been overrun, taken over, and replaced in my marriage. My generous spirit has allowed me to be taken for granted, disrespected, insulted, and can go on for chapters. My wife NEVER set an boundaries for her mom. Every friend, relative and neighbor branded the enemy, until finally no one left but me - so I'm the target. 24/7 practically, my wife spends her time, attention, friendship and companionship with her mommy. They even take MY kids out and leave me behind. My wife is a narcissistic princess child who never cut her umbilical cord. When I met her, she was being raised by her grandmother - a wonderful woman who loved me like her own son, and knew what family was all about. She has passed away some years ago, and MIL and wife developed unhealthy co-dependency. (When dating and beginning of marriage, MIL was hardly a footnote. Even lived harmoniously with new wife and her grandmother for 6-months til we found our 1st apt. My wife was independent and totally my partner in every way.

I am relegated in my own home to a 3rd class citizen. Only good enough to use, shop, fix, drive, errands, chores, work,etc. I am the sole financial supporter, and yet they bite the hand that feeds them. My wife has been completely brain-washed into an alternate reality where I am disrespected, distrusted, evil, abusive, cheating, self-loving, don't love my children or wife, and the scapegoat for all to blame for everything gone wrong. I never hated anyone before, but this MIL is pure evil and mental, and never recovered from her own divorce (no friends, no companion, and her own relatives don't talk to her!) So, her only life and purpose, is to destroy mine, and damn near success.

I tried ignoring her, standing up to her (bc my wife never defends me), even being nice to her - NOTHING would work for this most hateful, ignorant woman. She is reliving her FAILED marriage through OURS, and determined to give my wife and I the divorce she never had. In other words, destroy me, take me for everything, poison my kids' brains so they don't want to see me, lie and exaggerate. My wife has FINALLY swallowed her poison. I'm always out to get her, every conversation turns into an argument, and everything between US, ends up in MILs ears. Went back and forth with my unreasonable wife, argued, cold-shoulder, cried, beg, pleaded, forgiveness, repentance, prayer, but nothing in return.

Now, fast-forward - daily drama, scandals, threats, cursing, swearing, disrespect (in front of my kids) belittling, insults that would offend anyone's ears. The MIL is an abusive *****! And my wife has learned her craft.

I thought that I would try to reconcile with my wife. No matter what went on during the day, I'd hug and caress her at night in bed. Soon my wife barely even came to bed. She'd fall asleep on the couch next to mommy, night after night after night. She'd roll into bed 2,3,4,5am, sometimes not at all. I used fall asleep in the other chair waiting for her. If I woke my wife to come up, the MIL would scowl at me. She'd shut the lights and tuck lil girl in bed./couch Now I don't even bother. Even my kids see its strange that she spends SO SO MUCH time with her mom, and barely any with me.

So much more hear, but I've had it more than ever before, that NO MAN should live this way. I'm very emotional, and wear my heart on my sleeve, but I'm no fool, and she's taken me for one for years. I feel like I woke up from a 20-year coma into a nightmare. How did this happen? I always wanted the dream of til death do us part, together forever with our beautiful family. Now I feel sick being in my own home. I cannot walk around my house freely, without comments, mumbling, threats, and even middle fingers behind my back from MIL - kids saw this. But my wife is repeating history to a tee, and doomed to end up just like her mother!! I thought I would sacrifice myself, to be part of my kids lives. They just entered teenage years, and ALL of them NEED their father in their lives. My wife has NO NEED FOR A HUSBAND IT SEEMS. SHE IS CLUELESS. I cannot rationalize or talk to her - she is stubborn, arrogant, and doesn't listen to me on anything. I'm delusional or a loon. For example, the other day, I woke up and said its a beautiful summer day - lets take ALL the kids and goto the beach. She said no, I have to take my mom to an appt. SHe took her mom and my daughters (left my son with me), and went to the beach, and then a restaurant, WITHOUT ME. (This was very hurtful). My girls were sworn to secrecy, and later admitted to me where they went. When I told my wife I knew where they went, SHE still had the nerve to say I/m delusional and making things up. My daughter even posted a pic on the beach on social media. 

I feel the WIFE AND MIL are setting me up. They will rest only when they have my head on a platter. Some vicious vendetta, or paying for the "sins" of my wife's father (FIL). FIL no longer involved in our lives - said basically as long as MIL is in our home (he overheard her make comments about HIM), he will never visit. But, NO ONE will help or get involved to help save my marriage or talk sense into my wife - who stupidly thinks she has NOTHING to lose, holds all the cards, and will "win" against me. One thing she "has" on me is that literally she will call me names, insult and disrespect me, goad me into exploding. I've taken the bait a few times (a lot - bc I'm emotional) and broken down to tears, and yelling --> BOOM THIS IS WHEN MY WIFE'S PHONE RECORDER goes ON! I used to fool myself into believing if ONLY MIL would get the hell out of my house, we can save our marriage - but my wife seems hell bent on following her mother down the same road. What can I do, and how can I do it?? THX


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I have one of those MILs. To a point I wondered if you were my BIL because your stories are very similar. Unfortunately the only remedy is to train your wife to build firm boundaries but she has to be open to the idea that her family is dysfunctional and toxic. She is nowhere near that stage - might not ever get there.

The problem your MIL has with you is that you threaten her exclusivity and control she has over her daughter. She was in competition with you from the start. Although she may appear to be a hard as nails character, she will most definitely have *abandonment* issues where she fears you will take her golden child daughter away from her. The golden child acts to serve her because she is living her fantasy world through her daughter. She props up her fragile ego. She has groomed her from birth to agree with everything she says, do everything she wants her to do, put her needs before her own, totally loyal and a reliable source of supply. And...what makes it worse she is grooming the next generation to do the same. She will protect this as though her life depends on it.

She probably realised quite early on in your relationship that you are not malleable or controllable and have firm personal (healthy) boundaries. So you are a huge threat to her control system. 

As you can tell...been there bought the tshirt.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your life is what you make it. 

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> Your life is what you make it.
> 
> Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download


Additionally, read Larry Winget's "Grow a Pair". A damn good read. What I would recommend is you get your suitcases, put them on the bed, tell her she has a choice to make. If you can leave for a few days, you will find out where she has her loyalties. 

DO NOT TAKE ANYMORE **** from your wife or the wicked witch. Take charge now and quit being so compliant. My question is, " why do you stay in such a relationship?"

Be the alpha male!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

If you are sole breadwinner, have your paycheck moved to an account only you control. Take away the fuel to this fire. All you are to these two is a wallet. Same for any credit cards. You are being baited and set up. Why does wifey turn on the recorder. Gathering evidence when she will take you to the cleaners. Do not be surprised when she has you served. This may be one of those situations where you should strongly consider filing for divorce. The verbal abuse and mental cruelty you describe is not a marriage. Stand up for yourself.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Completely unacceptable. Why exactly is she living with you?

If MIL is such fabulous a mom, why did your wife's grandma have to raise her?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You're complaining about what?

You're the man of the house, may I suggest to stop whining and complaining the solution is to ..I don't know, seems rather a huge leap and far out idea..

Kick her out?

There I said it, don't flame me people I'm a crazy guy with crazy ideas.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Before doing anything, consult with a family law attorney and find out what your legal rights and responsibilities are.

Find out of you have a legal right to formally evict her out of your house.

Find out what your legal rights and responsibilities would be if your wife was to go with her or if you were to divorce. 

Find out what your custodial rights and child support would be and if you would owe her spousal support and for how long. 

There is no cure and no magic pixie dust to make mean, spiteful, hurtful people nice. You won't change them. You can only save yourself, your sanity and your dignity by getting away from them. 

This is a case where you may truly be better off living in a little one-room apartment, seeing your kids half the time and paying out spousal support for a few years until she gets her lazy, psycho @$$ a job. That may be money well spent and the time to yourself while she has the kids may seem like a Godsend. 

You may need to take your cues from your father in law here. You may have grown up hearing horror stories of how awful he is, but I bet if you hang out with him a few minutes, you will find out that he is the sane and smart one.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

........and yes, no matter what you do to stand up for yourself will involve them criticizing you and being mad and upset at you. You are going to have to grow some testicles and stand up for yourself and do something even if it means they will call you names and criticize you. 

There is no solution that will magically transform them into decent human beings that treat you nice. You will have to get some testicles and take charge of your own life and well being.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This situation isn't going to change as it is. Meaning, your wife sounds beyond return. So...I think the only way out of this is to divorce. Even if you managed to get the MIL out of the house, massive issues that are unsolvable would remain. You need a divorce.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

This is no way to live!!! And the nerve that they are treating you like this probably hoping that you will move out! I hope you are watching your financial accounts carefully, wify could be moving $$$ around. I know you just want your marriage back BUT I would seek legal advice before you do anything, like this week!! You could go for a free consultation. When I was getting info, the lawyer told me to NOT leave without the kids!!! Some here have talked about VAR--a recorder that you can put in her car just to hear if she is up to something more. Have you tried talking to wify about getting MIL an apt??


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What are you prepared to do about it?

Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> What are you prepared to do about it?
> 
> Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?


:iagree::iagree:

Are you at the end of your rope when you are ready for anything or are you really just venting....remember the best advice are those usually not taken.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Thank you for all the thoughtful posts and advice and experiences. I will try to address as much as I can. I DL "no more Mr nice guy - thx - the first guy sound like me. 

The reason why I acquiesce in terms of constant arguing and answering back "standing up for my self and family" that it falls on irrational deaf ears. I get upset. The kids get upset. They particularly don't like when I YELL. I get emotionally overwrought and this is the point where my wife runs for the phone. Why? Probably to set me up in case of divorce to say I'm mentally unstable and dangerous for children. Another vomit from MIL. MIL has literally blood libeled and belittled me in very vicious and nasty ways. 

"He's not a man not a husband, a ****** from a dirty lowlife family, mental, dangerous to kids etc." 

She HAS her own apartment! Her adult son, who can't stand her , lives there. (Not my problem). So, my wife's name is on the title of the house (even though I paid much and pay the bills and marital assets). But for eviction purpose I'm not the "titled" owner. You see, apparently I was a shmuck in love , and my wife, living thru her parents divorce, planned for this since the day she said "I DO". I thought about a domestic violence or restraining order, but would get messy. But of course my wife is NOT on my side. 

My wife went to grandmother at 16 til marriage after divorce. But she didn't stay with her mother. 

The reason I don't leave? Why should I leave my kids to that Monster MiL to screw up another generation of kids? It would be a victory for her. (Maybe Pyrrhic ) I love my kids more than myself. I was an active father in every way since birth!!! Never missed a major milestone or school or any event ! Filmed hours and hours of home movies and photos when they were little. I AM THIS FAMILY, and my wife is sorry to say a real dummy when it comes to marriage and family. As though her mother has a spell over her. 

Yes! The FIL does appear the smartest of all. He of course was the blame for everything, like I am now. I learned from him and other relatives his side. Daily drama, refusal to intimacy, suspicion, etc. - sound familiar? But FIL, even after practically begging him to help. To at least be a counter force and presence in my kids lives and some additional testosterone. When he used to come over, MIL would sit in her corner like a mouse and say nothing. It was a pleasure!!

But now it's ME and wife MIL and kids. No moral or emotional support thru all this. my wife takes EVeRything to her mother. I'm surprised she didn't inform her every time we had sex!
To PeaceM for an interesting and dead-on psycho analysis of MIL. I have read that and believe MIL is jealous that I am nothing like her EX, and wants our marriage to fail, like hers!! But MIL is sucessfully painting me as her EX. 

Amazing I am a likeable person, get along with practically everyone including her own relatives. Every one except MIL, and now my wife. Just this morning they got up for a little conference of gossip and **** about me and what my wife should do. Who the hell is MIL to give marital advice. My wife is so blind !! It's so painful. I am lonely in a house full of people. Joy only when I'm spending time with my kids. They try to limit this with my daughters. (They have sick thoughts about this too!!) FIL is aware. MIL said these things to HIM about my wife. The sickness goes on and on. 

I want to be a part of my kids daily lives. Not see them on court ordered days. They would try to prevent this too. I am a good man and father.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

"He's not a man not a husband, a ****** from a dirty lowlife family, mental, dangerous to kids etc." 

Anyone who ever said this to me would be spitting teeth. Man, woman or child. How dare ANYONE speak this way to you in your own house? (Don't hit your MIL. that's what she is goading you to do). 

But you tolerate her.

And you tolerate your wife too. I bet she's got a side piece. Making you out to be a bad husband gives her justification.

Kick both their asses to the curb.

How old are your kids?

You have a big decision to make.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She sounds mentally ill. Have you had her checked out by a psychiatrist?

Also, get a Voice Activated Recorder to secretly record what she says to or about you.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

hi, I'm not a violent person, so I take in stride what you're saying. Other folks who i have said this too, man or woman, basically said the same thing. But I know I MUST LEGALLY get the MIL OUT! HOW? If there is a 1% chance to save my marriage - but not fooling myself that even the 1% seems unlikely. So, to what one poster said - be the alpha male - I guess and know I'm not. I'm a highly intelligent guy who knows this is ALL wrong, and injustice. I'm just alone in this battle. Yes, I make no exaggerations here - I have told this over and over to various folks in confidence. If my wife suspects I went outside or to her relatives with this info - she only goes into protect MAMA mode, and says I BETRAYED HER by taking our dirty laundry outside the house. But what obligation do i have to keep the MILs abuse and dirty deeds secret. I've tried not to point finger of blame at my wife - saying I love her and want to work it out - but even that's fading. OUR LAUNDRY IS DIRTY because THEY MADE IT FILTHY. At times I wish I hadn't shared so much, but its maddening how this goes on. I have made it too easy for my wife, and do everything she asks - this is part of the problem, I know.

Does anyone know how I can legally get MIL out, if I can't evict her? ie OOP. Yes, how dare anyone talk to me like this over and over in front of my kids!! AND how dare my wife ALLOW THIS!! Shame on her, and she has BETRAYED me. Do you think I'm over exaggerating? I feel she has emotionally and intimately abandoned me. Some time way back, there as upstairs wife, who talked nice to me, shared common things we need to do together, even occasional intimacy - then DOWNSTAIRS, reverts to mommy's side, even after THAT, it's disgusting how she does that. OVER and OVER. Now it's like barely a word spoken between us - sometimes text communication - then its, can you do this, buy that, fix this, take so and so here, oh and tell the neighbor that hes pissing on our lawn. I'm just silent. I'd like to say, tell your life partner mommy to do ALL that I do. MILs too busy sunning herself on MY DECK that I repaired and painted beautifully with my own 2 hands for 5 days. Then MIL *****es if she does dishes saying your husband does nothing sits around all day (I do my business on my pc!), NERVE! I can go on and on. One time, I told my wife MIL keeps giving me the middle finger salute every time I walk by - she knows - kids even told me - and MIL's like a belled cat - her bangles ring furiously when I'm walking by - I just ignore her like she doesn't exist. WIfe "didn't believe me, paranoid, I'm delusional" SO YES, ONE TIME I SET UP MY PHONE. Walked by minding my own biz and sure enough!!! But what does it matter - I know the woman is mentally ill. My wife not too far behind. But they're trying to make it like its ME who is!! Yes I'm venting, but I know I must take action. NO HUMAN BEING SHOULD LIVE LIKE THIS! I wanted to save my wife, my marriage, my kids, but I need to save myself!


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> She sounds mentally ill. Have you had her checked out by a psychiatrist?
> 
> Also, get a Voice Activated Recorder to secretly record what she says to or about you.


OBVIOUSLY SHE IS! And her own relatives knows this. My wife is covering up for her, and chasing me away!

How can I personally have MIL checked out by a PSYCH?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

You give your wife an ultimatum. Mommy gets the **** out of your house and wife chooses to work on rebuilding a marriage with you. Or you divorce.

And stick to the ultimatum.

Frankly, I'd rather take it in the pocketbook than keep taking it in the ass.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Good, 

Let's put your MIL, aside for a sec...the first thing you need to do if get your name on the deed of that house...you need to get with the mortgage company and tell your wife she either puts your name on asap or you refuse to pay another mortgage payment...how in hell did you let this go on this long....look no one I'd speaking up for and that includes your self....you say you love your kids but is this the role model you want to give them...a henpecked husband without a spine.....if you don't want to do this for yourself do it for them..and for dear god tell the old bat to die soon rather than later.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

goodmandown said:


> OBVIOUSLY SHE IS! And her own relatives knows this. My wife is covering up for her, and chasing me away!
> 
> How can I personally have MIL checked out by a PSYCH?


Demand that your wife does this.

She almost certainly will not, then it would be divorce paper time.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Guess I missed it he first time around... your name isn't on the deed to your own house?

Let me guess - your name is on the mortgage?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

One, I cannot reiterate how important Lostinthought's post is. Get your name on the deed, and make the mortgage company aware of who has been making the payments. Second, as soon as possible see a family law attorney to ascertain your rights in this situation. You are not the bad guy in all of this. As soon as you start to act, you will be able to accurately assess your future.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

LostInthought and Taxman. I got it. I realize this. That's why so much conflict. I will NEVER get my name on the deed. And it's owned no outright. :-( I fell for the "there's plenty of husbands that put their wife's name on the deed". I fell for so much. 

I'm not an evil person, but do wish the demons of hell would open up the earth and swallow MIL back to whence she came. 

The MIL walks around here like SHE owns the place (no i checked) The house also is Willed to my kids. She walks around with her arrogant righteous power that my wife gave her. MIL is a 5th century unaccomplished woman , divorcee, man hater. She even sleeps with my TV remote and i barely able to watch my OWN fkn TV that I paid for. 

My wife thinks she can take on the world herself , but I've been fighting her battles. Even made me sue the neighbor for property damage, but told her I won't be going. So that would be that. But she is able to threaten me. "It will only be you and me in court facing the judge". Who will even watch my kids if that ever happened? MIL cannot handle them, son is oppositional. They are going on 13 and 16 , BTW. Been spoiled by parents unable to be on same page. :-(

My wife doesn't care or listen to ultimatums. Because I have been reluctant to follow thru. Where would I go even? Wouldn't this affect my legal status with kids. I know need a consultation ok. Thx


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

OK, goodmandown, I think this is bigger than just this forum to help you out. Yes, I agree with "No More Mr. Nice Guy"! There's a forum for that book which can give some good support, too.

But what I'm getting at is I think you need someone in real life to talk to who can give you solid advice. That person would be a good therapist. NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE CRAZY, but because you're dealing with crazy. And, you're dealing with it ineffectively.

NMMNG will give you some excellent tools and insights. A counselor will help you implement it with some solid strategies. For example, one of my counselors along the way gave me some specific wording to use when confronting my (now ex) wife about things. That's the kind of stuff this forum can't do nearly as well as an experienced counselor.

Another great GREAT book is "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty". The verbal tools are superb.

I think you need to get really good at setting boundaries and holding your ground. This is going to be really uncomfortable for you. You may be the kind of person who really values cooperative solutions and peaceful interactions. Well, this process is not going to be either of those things! But no matter what happens, you can handle it. It will be uncomfortable and difficult, but you can handle it. A real-life counselor can be a big help in this area.

We here can be a source of support, some 2x4 whacks when you need it, a shoulder to cry on (especially useful since you can't do that at home), and some good suggestions. I'm not chasing you away, just saying I think you are in deep enough where additional resources will really help you.

Try your EAP through work, which is Employee Assistance Program, free and TOTALLY CONFIDENTIAL counseling paid for by your employer. It is there for exactly your kind of situation. If the number of sessions is limited, you can continue with that counselor using your health insurance or simply pay cash.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ditto on the suggestion to talk to a lawyer asap. In fact, do that before you take any actions at all with your wife or MIL. Seriously, you can sink your ship before you even realize what you've done.

Depending on where you live, the house may be a marital asset. It may not, but that is what the attorney is for. You need to know specifically how local laws and courts deal with your situation. How can you legally evict MIL? How will it go down if you divorce? Is there a benefit to you filing, or is it better if your wife files for divorce? Is there a significant date to keep in mind (e.g. when alimony kicks in, or a pension becomes at risk)? How about child support, and how would your wife's paid off house fit in with that?

Most atty's will give a free consultation for 15 to 30 minutes. You can get a lot of questions answered. If you need more time it will not cost more than a few hundred dollars, which is money very well spent.

There is no Justice System. We have a LEGAL System. You need a lawyer to help you understand what you're dealing with.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MIL and/or your wife may be a danger to the children in the eyes of the law. MIL's behavior in particular with all the bad mouthing etc. There may be an angle there, which would involve child protective services, so you need to talk to a lawyer on this one, but it may be an angle to get her out of the house.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Definitely start using a VAR. A good SONY brand VAR with good batteries. Every time you are around your MIL or your W, I would have it in my pocket. Especially as things heat up, which they will, you may find it saves you from false charges.

Another angle may be to look at a restraining order against MIL. But that may be difficult given you share the home with your W who may have the legal right to invite her into the home. Another question for the lawyer.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> This situation isn't going to change as it is. Meaning, your wife sounds beyond return. So...I think the only way out of this is to divorce. Even if you managed to get the MIL out of the house, massive issues that are unsolvable would remain. You need a divorce.


Yes, give the MIL her long last divorce.

Yes, give the WiFE her divorce.

Move out immediately. Get a job two thousand miles away.

Me? I would then just......disappear. I would talk to the children and tell them what you are going to do. And that you will make it up to them......later.
And I would send money to the children....only. Without the two Hags knowing...give them cash.

These two conspirators would soon see the folly in what they brought on themselves. Assuming, of course that money would get tight, real quick.
If not, Oh, well.

Yes, yes, I know. A man doing this will become a dead beat Dad....and jail time is coming.

Ask me if I care!!

I allow no one to push me around.....not for long.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Your wife has lost all respect for you. I wonder if you have any self respect for you. You are slowly killing yourself staying in such an abusive marriage. Why do you want to be with someone who despises you. Read up on the 180, it works. Make a better you, and divorce this witch.
Be happy not miserable.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

goodmandown said:


> Thank you for all the thoughtful posts and advice and experiences. I will try to address as much as I can. I DL "no more Mr nice guy - thx - the first guy sound like me.
> 
> The reason why I acquiesce in terms of constant arguing and answering back "standing up for my self and family" that it falls on irrational deaf ears. I get upset. The kids get upset. They particularly don't like when I YELL. I get emotionally overwrought and this is the point where my wife runs for the phone. Why? Probably to set me up in case of divorce to say I'm mentally unstable and dangerous for children. Another vomit from MIL. MIL has literally blood libeled and belittled me in very vicious and nasty ways.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is you're all talk and no show. You're just going to take it and roll over. Why are you here then?

Whining, crying and doing the woe is me bit gets you nothing.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If your kids are going on 13 and 16 then they are surely old enough to see how you are treated.

You set an example that a person should have self respect and not be walked all over. Not be abused.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

On the part about show self respect and not be walked over, not be abused. Absolutely agree. I REALLY DO WANT TO GET GOOD AT SETTING BOUNDARIES - obviously I suck at it. My kids DO see it, but still subject to mind-twisting and brainwashing - ESPECIALLY when it comes to their grandmother (MIL). I can't help but remember my girls followed me to sit on the deck with me, and MIL gave them an earful how I can't be trusted, and I'm an abuser, and god knows what else, and then she shames them when they're with me, and even goes as far as "I/m not talking to you"

So the other aspect is my son - we went thru the ringer with him, and a lot of the stress caused by his behavior has gotten us a lot of what I face today - NO I'm not blaming him at all - I'm blaming our inability to deal with him as parents on the same page. He now, clever and smart plays two ends against the middle. I usually don't engage in his game and he knows it, but MIL and Wife fall for it hook line and sucker each time. Thankfully my girls are of age to go to my wife and say he's fibbing - but of course kids getting involved in this is ALL wrong too. My son could be mad at me, and he'll go out of nowhere, for ex "you know dad took me to an expensive restaurant the other day" We went to McDonalds. Or, I saw dad looking at that blond girl down the street (even if there is NO BLOND girl - he'll just make stuff up, because he knows the BUTTONS to push on MIL and my wife. The other one is "Oh grandma, you don't know what my dad said about you (I am very conscious to AVOID ANY discussion about that BEAST!!) MIL will believe it, and start up her rants and screaming on me. Ditto for wife. Half the time I take my son to get him off my wife's shoulders for a while - another good deed gone undone.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Look man, nobody is going to get your **** in order but you. Your wife is in full control while you allow her to be. You know it and she knows it.

You have one choice and it is to immediately lawyer up. Make plans to meet with a lawyer, get all your paperwork together, plan an exist strategy and gtfo. In the meantime, ignore them, don't bite, don't get angry, don't do nothing. If you are as innocent in allnof this as you say you are, keep it that way and get out.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

If you're paying all the bills, take away all credit cards and access to cash until behavior improves.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

Get a VAR and start recording them when engaging in conversation or when they are "abusing" you. That way you can use it for future reference. The thing is....your wife has betrayed you by talking badly about your marriage to an outside source (other than a counselor). Your MIL sounds mental and needs to go. But I think your situation is way too deep. You do need to see a lawyer ASAP....and counseling. And you need a divorce.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Lawyer up buttercup!!!! NOW. RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE. i cannot believe you Let this go on in your home. MIL is poison. Get her out. Your wife, too.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Tolerate or terminate. It's up to you.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I really think as one poster advised, you need therapy, also. You cannot live with these dynamics. What type of relationships will your kids have when they get married? Right now, not a healthy one. You have to lead as the man of the house.

Formulate a plan of attack. Define your objectives: get MIL out of life, file for divorce,obtain happiness, build self esteem,etc. you really need to focus on you. From your posts it appears the inmates are running the asylum.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Worried about your kids?

Well then, do you know that it is far far better for children to have come from a broken home than to have to live IN a broken home?



What kind of life lessons do you think they are absorbing on a daily basis in that toxic environment? What kind of a father do you think they see you as right now?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

When someone accuses you of being abusive, there is no going back. They believe it. And it damages the relationship irreparably. I suspect your MIL and wife were abused by men when they were younger. As a result, they view ALL men as abusers. You sound like a Really Nice Guy, to the point of being far too accommodating. The classic Nice Guy from the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Abused women somehow seem to find Nice Guys to hook onto, and it really is a perfect storm.

A lot of guesses there on my part, but what you've written is pretty classic.

Whether or not your W and MIL were abused doesn't really matter. If they were, there is ZERO chance of them changing. If they weren't, there is still ZERO chance of them changing. Something in their psyche convinces them you are an abusive man, and nothing will ever change it.

The best you can hope for is you enforcing strict boundaries which may somewhat modify their behavior around you. However, I don't see them changing their behavior when you are not around. They will still say all kinds of terrible things to your kids.

If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer about how to get full custody of your kids in the divorce. Every minute they are around those two women is damaging to the kids.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Thor said:


> The best you can hope for is you enforcing strict boundaries which may somewhat modify their behavior around you.


 I definitely messed up on any boundaries. Yes I was over-accommodating. I did everything in my power to be the best I can be, and do the best I can do - I was subverted continuously by MIL - undermining my marriage, my parenting, everything! And she took advantage of my wife, and taken her over it seems! 

As for today, after her arguing w/me this morning, she tells me all of the sudden I'm not interested in intimacy w/her. This is so NOT true. That MIL is a c-blocker!! She will ruin the mood and sow dissent all day that my wife will lose interest, after having her ear chewed. For any kind of humane interaction with my wife.

So, fairly quiet we were out together, took a ride, and no major drama. Was nice, and a change from the usual. No major conversations about anything (bc it would go nowhere). Not enough time between me and wife. But I WILL NOT be lulled into complacency - happens too many times. She acts different with that old hag around!! 

It makes me wonder if ONLY MIL was transported off this planet, would my wife be different? I guess I may never know. Bc when I'm with her alone, there's less, if any drama


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Hi, guess everyone said what they had to say, and no further thoughts? Does anyone think its 1% possible to save my marriage if MIL croaks? or leaves


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

goodmandown said:


> Hi, guess everyone said what they had to say, and no further thoughts? Does anyone think its 1% possible to save my marriage if MIL croaks? or leaves




You don't seem willing to take action so there's not much more to say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

goodmandown said:


> Hi, forum. I will try to get to the point. Married 20 yrs, 3-kids, house, dream, and MIL. I NEVER thought it would get to this in my life. Been suffering emotionally for some years now.
> 
> Some stuff I am embarrassed and ashamed that it got to this. I am a hard-working, loyal, dedicated,loving father and husband, with a big heart. Never cheated, no drugs, no smoking, drinking, gambling, no guys night out, work-home-work-home. Family oriented, etc. Divorced, angry man-hating MIL has been living with us for too long - Sure enough, I've been overrun, taken over, and replaced in my marriage. My generous spirit has allowed me to be taken for granted, disrespected, insulted, and can go on for chapters. My wife NEVER set an boundaries for her mom. Every friend, relative and neighbor branded the enemy, until finally no one left but me - so I'm the target. 24/7 practically, my wife spends her time, attention, friendship and companionship with her mommy. They even take MY kids out and leave me behind. My wife is a narcissistic princess child who never cut her umbilical cord. When I met her, she was being raised by her grandmother - a wonderful woman who loved me like her own son, and knew what family was all about. She has passed away some years ago, and MIL and wife developed unhealthy co-dependency. (When dating and beginning of marriage, MIL was hardly a footnote. Even lived harmoniously with new wife and her grandmother for 6-months til we found our 1st apt. My wife was independent and totally my partner in every way.
> 
> ...


You need to kick the MIL out of your house. Go see a lawyer and see what your options are. You have to become the man, the leader of the house. Sit your wife down and tgell her exactly what you ahve told us. Tell her she has two options, she has to choose

1. No MIL in the home
2. MIL in home you will ask for a divorce,

Time to play hardball, you cannot live the rest of your life like this. You wife needs a wake up call. Time to walk the gauntlet and follow through and stop being the nice guy.
Your kids will be grown fairly soon and then what? You will still hang around for the abuse? If your wife doesn't have you then no-one to bully, belittle and the life style may not be so hot.

See a lawyer, you have nothing to lose, time to re-establish authority in your own home and take back what is yours, time to put your MIL in her place and let your wife that the party is over, either she acts like a wife or you will find someone else who will, you are willing to lose her and her Mother. No-one deserves this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

goodmandown said:


> hi, I'm not a violent person, so I take in stride what you're saying. Other folks who i have said this too, man or woman, basically said the same thing. But I know I MUST LEGALLY get the MIL OUT! HOW? If there is a 1% chance to save my marriage - but not fooling myself that even the 1% seems unlikely. So, to what one poster said - be the alpha male - I guess and know I'm not. I'm a highly intelligent guy who knows this is ALL wrong, and injustice. I'm just alone in this battle. Yes, I make no exaggerations here - I have told this over and over to various folks in confidence. If my wife suspects I went outside or to her relatives with this info - she only goes into protect MAMA mode, and says I BETRAYED HER by taking our dirty laundry outside the house. But what obligation do i have to keep the MILs abuse and dirty deeds secret. I've tried not to point finger of blame at my wife - saying I love her and want to work it out - but even that's fading. OUR LAUNDRY IS DIRTY because THEY MADE IT FILTHY. At times I wish I hadn't shared so much, but its maddening how this goes on. I have made it too easy for my wife, and do everything she asks - this is part of the problem, I know.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can legally get MIL out, if I can't evict her? ie OOP. Yes, how dare anyone talk to me like this over and over in front of my kids!! AND how dare my wife ALLOW THIS!! Shame on her, and she has BETRAYED me. Do you think I'm over exaggerating? I feel she has emotionally and intimately abandoned me. Some time way back, there as upstairs wife, who talked nice to me, shared common things we need to do together, even occasional intimacy - then DOWNSTAIRS, reverts to mommy's side, even after THAT, it's disgusting how she does that. OVER and OVER. Now it's like barely a word spoken between us - sometimes text communication - then its, can you do this, buy that, fix this, take so and so here, oh and tell the neighbor that hes pissing on our lawn. I'm just silent. I'd like to say, tell your life partner mommy to do ALL that I do. MILs too busy sunning herself on MY DECK that I repaired and painted beautifully with my own 2 hands for 5 days. Then MIL *****es if she does dishes saying your husband does nothing sits around all day (I do my business on my pc!), NERVE! I can go on and on. One time, I told my wife MIL keeps giving me the middle finger salute every time I walk by - she knows - kids even told me - and MIL's like a belled cat - her bangles ring furiously when I'm walking by - I just ignore her like she doesn't exist. WIfe "didn't believe me, paranoid, I'm delusional" SO YES, ONE TIME I SET UP MY PHONE. Walked by minding my own biz and sure enough!!! But what does it matter - I know the woman is mentally ill. My wife not too far behind. But they're trying to make it like its ME who is!! Yes I'm venting, but I know I must take action. NO HUMAN BEING SHOULD LIVE LIKE THIS! I wanted to save my wife, my marriage, my kids, but I need to save myself!


Install secret camera in your home, record MIL when she is being nasty to you, there are lots of ways of exposing this woman.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

goodmandown said:


> Hi, guess everyone said what they had to say, and no further thoughts? Does anyone think its 1% possible to save my marriage if MIL croaks? or leaves


Does not look like you are taking any action inspite of all the advice, I do not think any thing will change as you are not willing to change it.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

goodmandown said:


> Hi, guess everyone said what they had to say, and no further thoughts? Does anyone think its 1% possible to save my marriage if MIL croaks? or leaves


It doesn't matter man. Stop asking silly questions.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

goodmandown said:


> Hi, guess everyone said what they had to say, and no further thoughts? Does anyone think its 1% possible to save my marriage if MIL croaks? or leaves


I agree 100% with aine's response below. Note: you *must* see a lawyer. You must know what your legal position is regarding MIL, and, how things would work in a divorce. Correct information is critical. I think the only way you can save your marriage is to first accept that you will lose your marriage by doing nothing differently. You have to be willing to put your marriage on the line under your own terms soon, rather than letting this death spiral continue to the inevitable divorce at some unknown near future date.



aine said:


> You need to kick the MIL out of your house. Go see a lawyer and see what your options are. You have to become the man, the leader of the house. Sit your wife down and tgell her exactly what you ahve told us. Tell her she has two options, she has to choose
> 
> 1. No MIL in the home
> 2. MIL in home you will ask for a divorce,
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

It is YOUR HOME. Kick her ass out. If wife says she will leave if you kick mom out, then by all means let her go.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree to have your paycheck moved to an account that only you own. Let your wife and her codependency on "Mommy" find a way to pay the bills, feed themselves, etc. You're there to be a loving husband and provider to your family; NOT to put up with your MIL abusive behavior.

You may just want to move out for a bit and find yourself an apartment. Maybe this will wake your wife up as to the seriousness you feel regarding the situation. This may make her think a bit about the way they've been treating you, at they've been totally taking your kindness for granted.

Nobody but NOBODY needs to put up with the abuse you're taking from both her and her mentally abusive mother. You had nothing to do with her horrible divorce and your wife treating you like she is ..it's just plain ludacrist!!

Good luck and God Bless.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

aine said:


> Does not look like you are taking any action inspite of all the advice, I do not think any thing will change as you are not willing to change it.


I agree with you - I MUST CHANGE THIS! Every one on their own time - I hear this from almost 100% of everyone I speak to , read, etc. I fall into periods of complacency, and then I think I'll just have a breather from the daily drama, and clear my head, fall off guard, and BAM, rinse, repeat.

I even spoke to my barber, who said he had an interloping MIL, and loved his kids, but finally told his wife "I've had enough, my heart isn't made out of metal......"

Getting my courage together....the other thing is I'm wrapped up in my work, trying to take on various projects, and is time consuming. But if my wife is giving me constant crap, what am I doing it for?


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Thor and Aine, very poignant observations and good advice. I need a support system to get thru this. 
So, and I know it doesn't matter at this point, the latest bit of drama is that I did talk to some of MIL's/wife's own relatives - ones that (well practically ALL!) that they have become estranged from. ALL that's right, from both wife's sides. Now, it's LEAKED somehow, that I may have told all my "dirt" to them. 

I started with FIL, and BIL, and few others. Instead of my wife feeling that hey, what has she done to push me to talk to HER relatives, its more of a damage control on what one relative said "Your wife always played like she has the best peachiest life, and I pulled the mask off that"

Now, for so so many years of my marriage, I NEVER TOLD A SOUL what transpired in my marriage, and ALWAYS fought wife's battles, defended her against anyone with a bad word about her. Sometimes even MIL (BIG HUGE MISTAKE). Thought I was being the honorable husband. But years later, after having my wife's back, I look around and wonder hey, who has mine?? So, plea after discussion, etc. of telling my wife MIL must go, we must goto counseling, you're hurting me and driving me to places I've never been. DON"T put me in that dark corner!! I desperately sought out others in her family who I thought could help educate her, move her away from her mommy, provide a larger support system. I and FIL made a temporary peace of her whole family, but always back to MIL! FIL is done, wants nothing to do with his daughter anymore (and by extension our kids, which hurts me). FIL KNOWS FULL WELL ABOUT MIL, and refused to help us, or at least provide a counter balance to this. HE SAW FULL WELL what MIL did to him, etc. But anyway I digress.
So, I DO feel a little guilty, maybe dirty, talking to relatives - but they even say it's not my fault, and they understand, and no hard feelings, and agree with me 100%. If my wife didn't allow this destructive negative spiteful abusive behavior get out of control, if she didnt emotionally abandon me, as I feel, or take me for granted, I would never have spoken to anyone. WHAT OBLIGATION DO I HAVE TO KEEP MIL'S ABUSIVE FASCISTIC behavior towards me a secret??


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

And so, as I write all this at 12:30am, my wife still on the couch next to bestie mommy, 24/7 at mommy's side. Giving her love, respect, friendship, companionship, sharing, time - WTF do I get out of all this?? My wife has the nerve to say I, ME, have not lived up to being a man or a husband? 

She can really consider herself a woman, or a good wife? She slaps down a plate of food for me, and I'm supposed to say wow, how lucky am I. After that, nothing else.

What young woman spends night and day with her mother - as if I'm dead and she's widowed. They shop together, watch tv together, tan together, yada yada yada. So EVEN IF I NEVER WROTE ABOUT THIS ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, I don't even get ANY emotional satisfaction out of having a WIFE!!! It's disgusting and despicable. And when MIL says her daughter will replace me with a rich man - I JUST HAVE TO LAUGH!! WHat MAN WOULD WANT THIS??? FOR christ's sake.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

So... what quality of action are you willing to take?

You will not have a quality of life until you do... why is it so hard to leave behind these things that hurt you?

You have talked to everyone and convinced them but it seems you haven't sold the only person that can remove the pain.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Why in the world are you putting up with this ?? File for divorce kick your MIL out and get a life.. this is ridiculous.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I'm annoyed that you put up with this bs.. My God have some self respect and get out of this mess


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Step 1 start a seceret bank account
2) see a lawyer 
3)see a lawyer
4) document all verbal and physical abuse
5)gather all important papers...marriage license,bank account,tax returns,etc
6)go see a councler
7)start a routine get up at the same time go to bed at the same time eat well
8)do not interact with outbursts of anger.
9)start pulling in the finanical purse strings. Stop all unnessary expendexiours
10)do not telanyone your plan
11) save up some cash

12)plan your exit
13)SPEND SOME TIME WITH YOUR KIDS ALONE

14)give yourselk a time limit 6months 1 year at the longest
15)leave on that date and file for divorce


Only you can do this! Its never going to change unless YOU do it.

It will be hard but I belive its whats best for you your children and your wife. 

Good luck




One last statement

Pull your head out of your ass wipe the **** out of your eyes pull up your big boy pants and do something about it!


Or cry the blues and waste more of your life with this crazy situation . Will you take it on the chin financialy....propably but in the long run when you look back you will be glad you did it

Good luck and god bless you have a long bumpy road but you can do it

I listed see a lawyer twice because a second opinion is wort it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'd lose that pair like the terminal disease that they are! They sound like a pair of throat-slashing chupacabras!

Evict them and give yourself some needed freedom and newfound sanity!*


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

goodmandown said:


> It's disgusting and despicable. And when MIL says her daughter will replace me with a rich man - I JUST HAVE TO LAUGH!! WHat MAN WOULD WANT THIS??? FOR christ's sake.


I guess to answer your question. You do, or you would man up and get the hell out of this twisted, demented, unhealthy relationship. Have some balls man. No self respecting man would put up with this ****. Pack your **** and move out, or slowly kill yourself living in misery. Your choice.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You sound very much like an abused person. You feel the pain but you can't leave. Now, imagine within the first few weeks of meeting your wife she had inflicted this kind of behavior on you. Berating you, abandoning you to spend time with her mom, etc. You would have immediately seen she was not someone you wanted to handcuff yourself to for the rest of your life. Yet, somehow, all these years later you can't do what you would have done on date #3.

You really do need to talk to a counselor or therapist for your own peace of mind.

If I haven't done so already, I highly recommend the book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by M. Smith. Lots of good verbal tools, but also the underlying philosophy which I think will help you.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Thanks Thor, and everyone else for the advice, sometimes feeling, and sometimes blunt - I can take it - hey look what i've been taking all this time.

Yes, I fooled myself into thinking - it can get better IF MIL left back to the hole she came from, and wife would goto counseling with me- but in absence of any of the above, IT CANNOT GET BETTER the way it is now. I went into this marriage (like so many others) thinking it would last - not a fairy tale, not a perfect, but just a decent rational relationship - one of mutual respect, at least, and realization it would be IDEAL, if 3 teens have BOTH their parents in their lives. I went into this thinking - jeez FIL did all that and left his two kids, why on earth would he do that (HA!), and I'll be there for my wife "forever" and our kids never have to worry about an unfaithful "bastard" like FIL. Only my wife didn't get this memo, and under mommy's skirt like a little girl.

I always thought I'd at least EXHAUST every possibility with my wife, before I called it quits. ONE TIME WAY BACK, MIL went home - and even the KIDS said - WOW look how quiet it is between mommy and daddy. SO I wonder if MONSTER I N LAW left, would it get back to some semblance of order. MY WIFE WON'T GIVE IT THIS CHANCE. The least excuse is her adult son lives there, and she doesn't want to be there - not my FKG problem. 

I will read up on that When I feel guilty...book. THX!


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

I never saw this as clearly as I do now. That's why all the pain and conflict. When I DO stand up to myself - it ends with yelling screaming and me out the door for some hours to cool off. Then quiets down, rinse, repeat. 

When I met my wife, again, MIL was barely a foot note. Wife lived with Golden Grandma (seriously!), and WE SPENT ALL OUR FREE TIME with each other. Now GIL gone, God rest her beautiful soul, MIL and wife co-dependent unhealthy sick relationship together. 

I am OBVIOUSLY "IN-THE-WAY" of those two soulmates. Sick isn't it? AM I exaggerating? The only conversation I have with my wife these days is "do this, do that" Pick up shopping, get a milk, fix this, grill that. Let's take the kids school shopping etc. Ahh!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

You are in a rut. Think of a wagon going down a dirt road. The wheels fall into the rut and you head in the same direction/result. History repeats itself. When you say something you must mean it and follow through. They have called your bluff. You can't bluff. You must take action.

First get into counseling for you. Secondly, I would strongly encourage you to seek legal advice regarding separation-dissolution of marriage.
Then move the hell out once you know what you are on the hook for.

Your wife has no respect for you anymore. Women respect only one thing, that being strength. You will find your inner strength should you have a good counselor to assist you. 

This cycle must cease for your emotional well being, otherwise you will have a heart attack from the stress. You must extract yourself out of this situation or you will regret it.


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## ThaMatrix (Sep 3, 2017)

Yes take control of this situation.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Pray for me........... I understand everything you all are saying. I am rational human being. My heart breaks for my kids who I KNOW don't want us to break up, or for me to leave. I see my kids eyes light up when MOM and DAD are nice to each other and laughing. THAT MIL WITCH KILLED THIS ALL, and obvious her daughter(My wife) who could only stand up for mommy and not her husband and family.

The next thing in that case I CANNOT ALLOW THAT MENTAL MIL to remain and raise my kids under any circumstances - That and my kids keep me glued here. And I probably have no choice if I left. I know what goes on is wrong. I still love my wife as the mother of my children, but I am no longer delusional that anything that REMAINS AS IS, will save my marriage. Plus a thin line between love & hate.

Just this morning, my daughter came down (wife still upstairs). I'm talking to her over breakfast about starting school, her friends, etc.
MIL "GRAND DAUGHTER!! Are you eating your food?? Stop talking to HIM (me). This maniac doesn't even give any peace to his children or family. On and on and on, until MIL starts cursing me and putting me down and threatening how they're gonna get me and tear me to shreds, and I should leave, and i'm gonna be in jail." My daughter begged MIL to be quiet, while pleading for me to ignore her - I went outside on my porch - who doesn't give PEACE HERE?? MY wife of course came down to defend mommykins even when my daughter tried to tell her aside, that MIL attacked me :-(


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

goodmandown said:


> THAT MIL WITCH KILLED THIS ALL, and obvious her daughter(My wife) who could only stand up for mommy and not her husband and family.


Your wife is 100% responsible for her actions.



> Just this morning, my daughter came down (wife still upstairs). I'm talking to her over breakfast about starting school, her friends, etc.
> MIL "GRAND DAUGHTER!! Are you eating your food?? Stop talking to HIM (me). This maniac doesn't even give any peace to his children or family. On and on and on, until MIL starts cursing me and putting me down and threatening how they're gonna get me and tear me to shreds, and I should leave, and i'm gonna be in jail." My daughter begged MIL to be quiet, while pleading for me to ignore her - I went outside on my porch - who doesn't give PEACE HERE?? MY wife of course came down to defend mommykins even when my daughter tried to tell her aside, that MIL attacked me :-(


You're going to want recordings of these incidents.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

goodmandown said:


> Pray for me........... I understand everything you all are saying. I am rational human being. My heart breaks for my kids who I KNOW don't want us to break up, or for me to leave. I see my kids eyes light up when MOM and DAD are nice to each other and laughing. THAT MIL WITCH KILLED THIS ALL, and obvious her daughter(My wife) who could only stand up for mommy and not her husband and family.
> 
> *You still don't get it. The real problem is you. You let this happen by not stopping it. *
> 
> ...


And once again you rolled over and took it up the ass. Get a Voice Activated Recorder and start documenting this behavior. File for D and go for full custody.

If this is as bad as you say it shouldn't take long.

Or roll over and keep taking it up the ass. 

You are doing your kids a great injustice and teaching them how to grow up and be a doormat like their father. Did you ever think about what your inaction is doing to them???

Cool calm and collected. Gather your evidence and call in Child Services.

Quit being a coward.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

a_mister said:


> You're going to want recordings of these incidents.


Yes! Get a VAR and have it on you at all times. Do talk to a lawyer ASAP. Regardless of what he/she says about admissibility of recordings in court, I would still run the VAR any time MIL or W could be around. When one of them accuses you of actual abuse you will wish you had recordings of their behavior. When they try to take the kids from you (and gouge you for maximum child support too), you will wish you had recordings of their behavior and your kids' responses.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You will have your own home where your kids can be. Whatever the final outcome is with court ordered custody, they will have that time in your normal healthy home. If you are smart and play this strategically, and consult with an attorney to do it right, you can probably get 100% custody given the circumstances. Warning, though, you have to be strategic and calculated. You MUST use an attorney and follow their advice in this process. If you only end up 50/50, your kids will still have half their time in your normal healthy home.

What I'm saying is they are now 100% in crazy land with MIL and your W in the home. Any amount of time you can get them out of there after a divorce will be a win for the kids.

Of course the kids want Mom and Dad to be together and happy. But that is not a possible outcome. Reality is either status quo or something much different. I don't see any reason to believe getting MIL out of the house is a cure for your W's behavior. And, I don't believe it is going to be possible to get MIL out of the house.

You need a shark of a lawyer who understands your situation. You may need to expand the team to include a therapist or some kind of child advocates (but I am against calling any government agency without your lawyer being sure it is a good idea). You need to look at the long goal here, which is to get your kids successfully out of this home and to extricate yourself with the maximum positive outcome for you. You also need to protect yourself against the inevitable accusations of abuse. Either MIL or W will call the police and claim you did something. Guaranteed. You need the VAR. And you need to be prepared mentally not to touch anybody and to keep your jets cool when they try to push your buttons. Never admit to the police you touched them, pushed them, or yelled at them. When the police show up they are planning on taking you to jail, so don't give them any help! Even if you were cornered, you try not to physically touch MIL or W. The VAR will back up your story that you asked them repeatedly to move aside so that you can leave the room. The VAR will confirm they were verbally abusing you while you were calmly asking them to not speak like that in front of the kids. 

See the picture here? MIL and W are the enemies of your kids. They are also the enemy of your mental well being, which is secondary to the kids but not by much. Your lawyer and any others on your support team will deal with the official and legal stuff to make sure you get a good outcome.

You can handle this. It will be ok. It won't be pleasant at times, but the results will be worth it.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries. You must determine what you will accept and what you will not. Your word for the day in UNACCEPTABLE! 
Wife that is unacceptable. MIL that is unacceptable. Kids your mother and grandmothers behavior towards me is unacceptable.

You need to really remove yourself from this ****ty situation. No person deserves to be belittled as you have been. That ain't love my man, what you are experiencing is bullying and abuse. The good thing is you have a choice. You can leave. Why do you stay? What type of message does that send to your children?


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Some good advice. I don't believe i would be physically touching anybody! That not in my nature. I do need to even control my anger. So , I have a specific question for all of you. How do I set boundaries at this point in time? Take the incident this morning. I could have flew off the handle and screamed back at MIL and said you old hag how dare you talk like that in front of my daughter and then tell her she needs to get the **** out yesterday. When I get upset and yell it not pretty and scares my kids. They don't want me to fight with her. So damned if I do and damned if I don't. 
I would file an Order of Protection to get her out if I could. 
Yes a very skilled lawyer here. 
Yes , finally a normal home where my kids could be free of disrespect and daddy abuse. 
My wife plays two sides. She feigns her anger at mommys side and then talks to me like everything that goes on is acceptable. When I protest it turns into futile battle. 
How in the meanwhile until I get my **** in order , NOT take it up the ass as you say?? I always thought I was being the better person by walking away and not engaging. Because it's exactly what that monster MIL wants for me. Answering back is her power.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Stop blaming your mil !!!

She only has power because your wife gives it to her !!

Your wife is the problem !!


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

You are NOT the first to say this Barbados - and other posters!! Of course, I get it now, WIFE empowered her mommy to **** all over me, and never set boundaries.

Sometimes, no my kids came to me and say mom defended me, or told MIL to back off. But ITS NOT ENOUGH - nothing less than MIL getting out of here will help. Its ME or HER. Truth is, I want a DIVORCE - I want a divorce from MIL - but my wife is pushing for one with her.....


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I feel bad for your kids. You, I dont feel sorry for. You allowed this. But your kids don't deserve this. Put your big boy pants on and man up already. Come on


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

goodmandown said:


> You are NOT the first to say this Barbados - and other posters!! Of course, I get it now, WIFE empowered her mommy to **** all over me, and never set boundaries.
> 
> Sometimes, no my kids came to me and say mom defended me, or told MIL to back off. But ITS NOT ENOUGH - nothing less than MIL getting out of here will help. Its ME or HER. Truth is, I want a DIVORCE - I want a divorce from MIL - but my wife is pushing for one with her.....


You want a divorce then get one. Stop talking about it and just do it..

This thread is annoying me because it seems like all you do is talk but do nothing .. Stop playing the victim and do something about it. My God


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

musiclover said:


> You want a divorce then get one. Stop talking about it and just do it..
> 
> This thread is annoying me because it seems like all you do is talk but do nothing .. Stop playing the victim and do something about it. My God


Exactly...My God!

What you are describing is quite literally insanity. Your children are the victims, not you.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Well, I said D from the MIL! But, sorry to be bothering a public forum that talks about this stuff - I need some emotional support along the way here. It's easy to tell someone who's been in this for 20 years to suddenly turn it all on its head. I'm pissed, frustrated, upset, angry, depressed, sad, stressed, abused, and all that **** in between.

Then a little walk with wifey, and she's telling me about her dreams of upgrading to a house, and all the things we need to do....REALITY CHECK!! I'm not the one who doesn't get it. First,off - **** no, I ain't upgrading to a house where MIL will be - that's insanity. I'd rather live in a 10x10 room than in a mansion with MIL. But my wife acts DIFFERENT when not in the presence of the EMPEROR. The dark side of the force is powerful;


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

You are not holding your wife accountable. You married her, not her mother. So stop blaming the MIL for your wife's issues. Kick out the mother in law. If the wife doesn't like it, then leave or ask her to leave. This isn't complicated. 

All the moaning in the world isn't going to solve your problem. Neither will conflict avoidance. Fish or cut bait.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

goodmandown said:


> Well, I said D from the MIL! But, sorry to be bothering a public forum that talks about this stuff - I need some emotional support along the way here. It's easy to tell someone who's been in this for 20 years to suddenly turn it all on its head. I'm pissed, frustrated, upset, angry, depressed, sad, stressed, abused, and all that **** in between.
> 
> Then a little walk with wifey, and she's telling me about her dreams of upgrading to a house, and all the things we need to do....REALITY CHECK!! I'm not the one who doesn't get it. First,off - **** no, I ain't upgrading to a house where MIL will be - that's insanity. I'd rather live in a 10x10 room than in a mansion with MIL. But my wife acts DIFFERENT when not in the presence of the EMPEROR. The dark side of the force is powerful;


You're bent on blaming your MIL and underestimating your wife's role.

I get it. It's OK.

However, you need to realize though that she's playing you. In your mind, she acts "different" without the MIL. It's just a "good cop", "bad cop" routine.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your wife may act differently when your MIL isnt around, however... the fact that she treats you like crap at any point shows that she has ZERO respect for you. No way should you be tolerating this, the two of you are supposed to be a team. Your MIL needs to get the hell out of your house, and if your wife wants to follow her, by all means hold the door open for her.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your wife and her mother are a package deal. This seems well established. Your options are to accept this is your life or man the hell up and tell your wife in no uncertain terms that either her mother goes or they both go, you don't care which. And, for the love of God, stop allowing Mommy Dearest and her minion access to your money.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Your wife may act differently when your MIL isnt around, however... the fact that she treats you like crap at any point shows that she has ZERO respect for you. No way should you be tolerating this, the two of you are supposed to be a team. Your MIL needs to get the hell out of your house, and if your wife wants to follow her, by all means hold the door open for her.


Remember "Bewitched"?

Endora was a lunatic, but Samantha always stayed by Darrin's side. It would've been a completely different show if Samantha turned on Darrin every time Endora showed up. Nobody would have watched it, because the same person who could suspend disbelief and embrace the premise that his wife and mother-in-law were both _literally witches with magical powers_ would never believe Darrin would put up with this.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@goodmandown, have you seen a lawyer yet? If not, WHY NOT? You need to get all the info you can for a NUMBER of issues here (can you legally get your MIL out of the house if your wife wants her there, D issues, Child custody questions, money/house questions). You are running in circles if you don't get the information you need to build a plan. The emotions are making you bounce around -- you NEED a plan to help you with this. The Lawyer will help frame your plan. You should really look for a shark here because I think your MIL/Wife are documenting/cooking up stuff so that if you DO divorce, they have all they need against you. THEY have a plan. You need a counter plan.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

goodmandown said:


> Well, I said D from the MIL! But, sorry to be bothering a public forum that talks about this stuff - I need some emotional support along the way here. It's easy to tell someone who's been in this for 20 years to suddenly turn it all on its head. I'm pissed, frustrated, upset, angry, depressed, sad, stressed, abused, and all that **** in between.
> 
> Then a little walk with wifey, and she's telling me about her dreams of upgrading to a house, and all the things we need to do....REALITY CHECK!! I'm not the one who doesn't get it. First,off - **** no, I ain't upgrading to a house where MIL will be - that's insanity. I'd rather live in a 10x10 room than in a mansion with MIL. But my wife acts DIFFERENT when not in the presence of the EMPEROR. The dark side of the force is powerful;


I get it believe me. I was married for 20 years myself. It's not easy to jump the hurdle. But when you do, you'll be wondering why you didn't do it sooner. 

My ex was verbally and physical with me a couple of times. It wasn't good for myself or my kids. Took me a while to realize my life was not normal..

Your marriage is not normal. Do yourself and your kids a favor and get divorced


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Still not doing anything I see. Like a dog laying in the mud complaining about being dirty but not getting up. I wouldn't blame MIL or wife. Look in the mirror and own your choices. You're the one still there and taking it. There's obviously something you like about it to make the choice to be abused everyday. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

goodmandown said:


> Some good advice. I don't believe i would be physically touching anybody! That not in my nature.


Ok, picture this. Your MIL and/or your wife are going off on you. Maybe you told W you want a divorce. Maybe you've just been enforcing some boundaries and they are trying to regain power over you. So, they have you literally cornered in a room while berating you. You ask them several times to stop, and to move aside so you can leave the room. They start pushing your buttons, getting up close into your face. One of your kids is pleading with the women to stop.

So you do the normal and morally acceptable thing by pushing your way past them to get out of the room. No harm done, just a little push aside with your arm so you can fit past them.

So they call the cops and say you physically assaulted one of them, violently pushing your W into the wall. The cop asks if you pushed your W.

If you say yes, you're going to jail. Probably you'll be charged with domestic violence of some sort, and it may lead to a restraining order against you as a common divorce tactic used by women. Your W will then use this episode against you for custody of your children. You'll only get to see them infrequently, and you'll have to pay her big $ in child support since she has them 100% of the time.

So *that* is the reason you have a VAR and you never ever admit to the cops you touched anyone. Cops don't care about your story you were being verbally abused and gently pushed past your MIL to get out of the room. They are spring loaded to take the man to jail. They are under pressure to take somebody to jail in a domestic violence call.

Your VAR is your defense against this common scenario. Cops are not judges, they are simply seeing if there is enough reason to haul someone off to jail. You saying yes you touched somebody is what they need to haul *you* to jail. Even if you are fully legally and morally in the right, you will be railroaded by the system. VAR, and admit nothing if the cops show up.

Don't believe this is real? Read the thread by Sid Snot. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...morse-emotion-responsibility-her-actions.html He is getting absolutely railroaded by the system due to a lying witch of a wife. These things happen every single day. Protect yourself and your kids. Staying in the marriage is not protecting them either.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

goodmandown said:


> So , I have a specific question for all of you. How do I set boundaries at this point in time? Take the incident this morning. I could have flew off the handle and screamed back at MIL and said you old hag how dare you talk like that in front of my daughter and then tell her she needs to get the **** out yesterday. When I get upset and yell it not pretty and scares my kids. They don't want me to fight with her. So damned if I do and damned if I don't.


A boundary without consequences is useless. You need to have a consequence which you can in fact apply if the boundary is violated.

You need a list of potential boundaries, and a list of potential consequences.

Potential boundaries would be things like no yelling at you, no belittling you, no comments negative about you which the children can hear. Perhaps a boundary of no complaint or negative comments towards you by MIL. If there is something she doesn't like, she can take it up with your W, and your W is the only one who can discuss issues with you. MIL is a guest in your home! She has no right to berate you or complain about you, and especially not directly to you. So if she has something to say, she either keeps it to herself or talks to her daughter about it.

Potential consequences are perhaps more difficult to identify. You have money and keys to the house. You also have the marriage and the kids. If there are things you do around the house such as cook, clean, laundry, fix W's car, etc, those can be areas of consequence.

Usually one would start small. If your W yells at you, you will leave the room and not engage in the conversation. The boundary is yelling, the consequence is she loses her audience and thus the ability to get whatever outcome she was seeking. Going big right away can be difficult. But in the case of a really bad behavior the consequence needs to match it. Yelling at you in front of the kids could result in you taking the kids out to a restaurant for dinner and you not cooking dinner for the family (if you normally do the cooking). A second episode could result in an even larger consequence.

A therapist can really help you with these boundaries because he/she will understand the details of your situation better than we can in a few posts on this forum.

Consequences can escalate to you sequestering your paycheck and only providing the minimum necessary $ to support the household.  No extra $ for niceties for W and MIL. If it is legal (you need a lawyer), a consequence is your MIL not being allowed in the home.

Consequences can include calling the police if they physically strike you. They can include filing for divorce.

A boundary is structured as "I will not be in a marriage or home where XYZ is happening". Then the consequence: "If you do XYZ, I will ABC". So this is not a controlling statement such as "You are not allowed to do XYZ". The difference may seem subtle but it is important. A boundary is what you are not willing to tolerate. They can choose to do it, but you will enact consequences to them if they do. For example, if you say you will divorce if MIL remains in the house, your wife and MIL might happily choose the divorce. That is their right to choose. But you will not tolerate living in a house with MIL, so you choose to leave.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Thor said:


> If you say yes, you're going to jail. Probably you'll be charged with domestic violence of some sort, and it may lead to a restraining order against you as a common divorce tactic used by women. Your W will then use this episode against you for custody of your children. You'll only get to see them infrequently, and you'll have to pay her big $ in child support since she has them 100% of the time.


For bonus points, it's my understanding that it's common for these to be handled as "mandatory arrest" restraining orders with third-party no-contact stipulations.

That means that if OP's kids innocently tell mom "dad said _____", she can call the police and twist it around to tell them her estranged abusive husband is giving the children messages for her in violation of the third-party contact clause and off you go into the back of a police car, with a non-zero chance that they'll come take you away at work in front of your boss.

Nobody thinks their wife will do this to them until she's doing it. As Thor says, it's a common divorce tactic.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Your poor kids. They are living in hell and the examples that are being set for them are nothing short of atrocious. Your refusal to do anything about it makes you complicit in their dysfunctional and abusive child-rearing. Yes, I said abusive. Because that's exactly what it is.

Get your ass to a lawyer now.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

Get a VAR.....get cameras...start recording the behaviour. You will want it and perhaps need it. Go see an attorney NOW and find out what your legal rights are. Go get some counseling. The abuse you endure is outrageous! And you are teaching your kids that this behaviour is acceptable and they will be doomed to repeat it. Your MIL is mentally unstable/incapacitated and needs to be treated as such. Your wife needs to recognize this as she could be as well. Mental illness is hereditary. Best of luck!


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Evening all. I know there is not much to say or add to this, other than I am taking the advice seriously, and building my own courage up to do what's needed. But, just as a running log of what this evil woman spews out of her diseased mouth. Today, I'm on the porch, hearing screaming and yelling going on. Apparently MIL has lost her pills, someone went thru her bags, opened it up and took her pills, they are missing. WHO TO BLAME? #1 SCAPEGOAT - Now, even my wife doesn't believe this , and repeatedly tells MIL, I didn't touch them. Once I am in sight, MIL goes into a diatribe "I am not crazy, I know he took them, he did it purposely to me, he is an enemy and a sadistic person. I will make sure he is destroyed. He should be dead. I will destroy him so bad , court anywhere, that he will ENVY the dead.!" 

I answered that hideous woman back that she is an abusive animal, with likely senility setting in, and how it would be so peaceful and quiet for this family if she went home and got the **** out of here. She screamed and belittled my wife, but wife doesn't mind, she apparently likes mommy's dirty spit. My wife telling her I would never take pills. So I said, of course I took them, I already sold them, and thats that. But telling her I didn't do it NOT ENOUGH!! MY WIFE DIDN'T EVEN tell her how dare she spew that venom and poision and slander and blood libel nasty dirty words against me - IN FRONT OF MY SON!! 

I texted my wife after this is unacceptable, and she tries to justify her venom with the fact I answered back that I am going to do something to get her out of this house. (Everything mommy said - in one ear out the other, and How dare I threaten mommy for her to leave) OK THAT'S MY EVENING VENT ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS. On it....Not happy , stressed, upset, miserable everyday. Earlier, my wife and I were out together several hours, and no conflict, no argument, and relative sanguine peace. 90% of my marital arguments are around MIL
I hope this weekend goes by uneventful!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

All talk no show. Your life is what you're making it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You obviously love this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I'd put exlax in her coffee every morning


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

For those rough on the edges posters, NO I DON'T LIKE IT!!! I came here for advice, more than I expected, and some emotional support as well. While I don't expect sympathy in the sense coddling me, some comments are uncalled for. Maybe you went thru the same thing as me, and now you've seen the light - like reformed smokers against smoking. I have 20 years invested in this marriage, 3 teens, and still have responsibilities that monopolizes my time - every day stuff like school, work, etc. I am working on some things suggested. I need to get myself to a decent counselor, and legal consultations as well. I know deep down I've given it everything I could, and not likely to change without some sort of epiphany by my wife, or the earth swallowing MIL up. 

I get pleasure from seeing my kids faces in the morning ever day, and when I pick them up from school. Or when we go out places etc. Doing my darnedest to be there for my kids the way its SUPPOSED to be. I don't give two ****s about what wife or mil say about it - but i know its wrong and abusive. I'm not claiming total victim status here, but it's not easy to suddenly make dramatic changes for some people without thinking it thru and taking small steps, and getting all the facts around.

On the VAR, I've been hesitant/reluctant to do this, bc a year ago I DID IN FACT start recording MIL's episodes. Wife found out and they have been paranoid ever since. Everytime I'm quiet and they're yelling like maniacs, they think I'm recording them!! to a degree of sickness. I have been "clean" since that time - but only did that so I can play MIL back to wife - now I know she cares less what MIL says to or about me, and more about NOT letting any of this leak out. :-(


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

goodmandown said:


> For those rough on the edges posters, NO I DON'T LIKE IT!!! I came here for advice, more than I expected, and some emotional support as well. While I don't expect sympathy in the sense coddling me, some comments are uncalled for. Maybe you went thru the same thing as me, and now you've seen the light - like reformed smokers against smoking. I have 20 years invested in this marriage, 3 teens, and still have responsibilities that monopolizes my time - every day stuff like school, work, etc. I am working on some things suggested. I need to get myself to a decent counselor, and legal consultations as well. I know deep down I've given it everything I could, and not likely to change without some sort of epiphany by my wife, or the earth swallowing MIL up.
> 
> No one is going to fix this for you. Your wife is part of the problem
> 
> ...


You're affraid to do anything that might make them mad? Yet you continually take the abuse.

They have you well trained.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> I'd put exlax in her coffee every morning


OP, would you please let Marc come over and put exlax in your MIL's coffee?

We need to see some traction on this story arc and I think this will get things...moving.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Here is an analogy that exemplifies what your posts look like to us. 

Let's say you are cooking some bacon in the morning and some hot grease splatters on some cereal boxes and it catches on fire. 

Instead of throwing the cereal box in the sink and turning on the fawcet and putting it out; you make a post describing the cereal box on fire and how the flames are growing by the moment. 

Then the fire catches the cupboard on fire. But instead of getting a bucket of water and dousing the spreading flames, you make another post talking about how the fire is spreading to the cupboard. 

Then the fire spreads to the next cupboard and the next board and hunks of burning material are dropping to the floor catching the flooring on fire. But yet you do nothing to stop the spread of the fire, but rather just make posts reporting what is going up in flames. 

As you make posts about the spreading fire, the other posters on the forum are telling you to douse the flames with water, call 911 and to get the kids and the pets and get out of the house to protect yourselves. You read their posts and their pleas, but yet you do not actually take any of the actions that they have advised. 

Then the flames reach the ceiling and starts spreading across the kitchen and spreading into adjoining rooms as the house fills with thick, black smoke. 



But instead of getting out of the house and calling 911, you sit at the computer and tell the play-by-play story of how the fire is getting bigger and hotter and spreading throughout the house. 

Eventually, you will be overcome with the smoke and will burn up as you make posts about how bad the fire it and how much destruction it is reaping. ..... But yet all you do is report it and complain about it and you don't actually do anything to stop it's spread or do anything to save yourself. 

All you are doing here is REPORTING and describing. You are not doing anything address the problems or protecting yourself from the abuse and harm it is causing. 

You may be reading people's advice, but you are not actually doing any of what they advise. 

Your house is burning down around you here and you and your children and all that you have are going to burn up and end as a smoking hole in the ground, and you are reporting every step of it without taking any action to stop it or remove yourself from it. 

What more do you want us to advise you to do?????


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

a_mister said:


> OP, would you please let Marc come over and put exlax in your MIL's coffee?
> 
> We need to see some traction on this story arc and I think this will get things...moving.


Then hide all the toilet paper


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

OP, take at least one piece of advice given thus far, implement it, and report back within a few days. I understand the need to vent, and please feel free to vent, but as you're doing so, try undertaking some of this very critical change that's been suggested! You'll feel much better taking some forward steps to address this awful situation you're in.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

@Marc878= thanks for making me chortle :grin2:

@OP: I have to ask you...what are your fears?

One fear is obviously "change" and I do get that you are missing "the way we were". I know these feelings. That part of your life is over. Sorry, not trying to be mean or upset you further but it's a realization that I think you are attempting to swim to (why you are here posting). 
Your wife, for whatever reason, is not the same. It's not magically all going to fall back the way it was when you first got married. Life is different now, your wife is different now, your circumstances are different now and you have other people called your children to consider now. 

In lieu of all this change around you, YOU must change or you will continue on this downward spiral (as in things will get worse for you as time marches on if you fail to act). 
I'm not going to tell you to "man up" because I agree with you that it takes a man not to run as soon as the going gets tough. I'm glad for your kids that you apparently love them and stay for them. Like yourself, I'm one of those people who take pride in "I can take it". I have to remind myself, sometimes, that all this strength can be debilitating in the long run. 
You hold more cards (power) than you must believe you do. The Stygian Witches thrive upon you...I hope you can see that or eventually see if it if you don't now. 
They don't work? They obviously have too much time on their hands to create all this drama. Pull the plug- stop enabling those two to gang up on you any time they want to and you just keep footing all the bills and blame. 
Giving your spouse the ultimatum of it's you or MIL seems like a MUST at this point. She has her own apartment so let it be known that it's time to take her ass back there because it's your house and you're not putting up with any more of her bull****. 
If your MIL ain't paying the bills, ain't fixing the broken things, etc, then her own usefulness will become limited to your wife, over time. You're allowing her to stay. Why? Because you love your wife? Because you're afraid of conflict? 
Looks like the time for conflict has been upon you for a while so what is it you're fearing?

As pointed out by other posters, this is definitely not a healthy environment for your children. Your wife asking your daughters to lie to you to cover up her lie to you? Did you pay for that trip to the beach, btw? 

You said you were accused of taking MIL medication. What kind of medication is she taking? Anti-depressants? or some other type of mental medication? Her behavior around YOUR children is enough reason to get her out of your house. You're their father....and they will remember you letting that mentally ill person call the shots when you could have stopped her. 

The name on the title of the house (I'm assuming it's a mobile home?) As someone already pointed out, depending on where you live, it will probably be considered marital properly no matter who's name it is in if it was acquired while you were married. 

The past is gone. Look forward to your future- make it a good one for your children and yourself. You DO have the power and strength of a good man and it won't make you a bad man to stop the insanity. It will end when you say it ends. 

Good luck to you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

goodmandown said:


> I have 20 years invested in this marriage, 3 teens, and still have responsibilities that monopolizes my time - every day stuff like school, work, etc. I am working on some things suggested. I need to get myself to a decent counselor, and legal consultations as well. I know deep down I've given it everything I could, and not likely to change without some sort of epiphany by my wife, or the earth swallowing MIL up.


I don't like the word "invested" in your case. Investing means there is some expectation of future returns, of getting something for what you put in. Your W is not giving back anything at all to you. You aren't even getting crumbs.

Hey, many of us can sympathize and even relate to your situation. Some of the responses you're getting here may seem harsh towards you, but much of that comes from those who've been through similar kinds of things and know the other side isn't nearly as bad as you fear it is.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Getting to a counselor and getting a legal consultation are your first real steps, and you've identified those in your post. Great! Now make a real plan to actually go do those things. It may seem scary but at this point the counselor is for your own peace of mind, and the legal consultation will give you solid information which will also give you some sense of confidence.

I think you should try to change your focus from how your W or MIL feel about things, and focus more on what you and your kids need/deserve. The book I suggested earlier, "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty", fits right into that shift of focus. When you start looking at the big picture as getting to a good outcome rather than avoiding the wrath of the women in the house, you will stop really caring about how they feel. Instead you will care about how their behavior is impacting you and your kids. This is something your counselor will likely be addressing. And, this is a transition many of us here made in our own situations. Things will be much better for you and your kids in the future! We know that and are impatient to see it happen. We're all on your side even if sometimes we use the 2x4 too strongly.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Thanks Marc878, Vibrant, Thor, oldshirt, and others. Oldshirt - I see what you're saying - like that commercial of the fire burning on the guys head, and he's just sitting there ignoring the person telling him this.

SHould I beat myself up, and say what a wimp, p-whipped, wussy, poor excuse for man? I could do that too - I feel it. What does a man have left when he's beaten and broken down to a mere shell of himself - I don't recognize myself and ashamed of myself.

Yes, play-by-play :-( Tonight no better - MORE DRAMA. I started packing my bags but fell ill - my son called an ambulance, I was feeling nauseous and dizzy, BP very elevated (bottom high ) but originally, he called bc his mother discovered that I have been sending stuff to my alternate email. Like links to these posts, and texts to some people (FIL), etc. So, while I was not feeling well, my wife swiped my phone and enlisted my emotionally confused techie son to find emails of me sending to this other email. "Why did you expose our family, my son demanded"? I don't feel well now, so I will lay down and quite possible leave tomorrow. But I know legally I can not leave permanently - or give up my rights as a parent (abandonment). The MIL was on the verge of telling the ambulance that I'm mental and should be evaluated - my wife shut her up. BUT YES, I was having a nervous breakdown here. 

What needed time to plan and strategize is most urgent now - I am in a lower place than ever been right now. My wife feigned concern even hugging me and saying we should work this out for our family - but even my daughters were saying - you're just giving my son more time to go thru my phone!! MIL and wife telling my daughters to shut up and how dumb they are bc "I AM" trying to set up my family !! I've reached pretty close to rock bottom here. At the bottom, I suppose, only up is possible. I don't want to break my kids' hearts. My son thinks I betrayed everyone, bc he found a log of a conversation I had with FIL or something. I don't have the nerve for this game. My wife is a pro at this, and now I am ill - I RM'd myself from going to hospital - but maybe I should have went. I just wanted to relax in my own bed for now. My wife some years back - the same year my dad died, went thru such anxieties we went to every doctor under the sun - I was supportive and by her side and took off work and work from home to help her out - and it was likely in her head - and now I feel I'm suffering from a great depression with all this stress and pressure. 

ok forgive me, the fire shattered the windows now.......


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Passive men get bullied. It's a rule of nature just like gravity. I would give your MIL (because I am a nice guy) 2 weeks to find another place to live, tell your wife is she wants to go she can.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You've already broken your kids heart by being such a doormat.

Apparently you've taught your son well. He's acting just like them as your lack of actions have taught him.

He has zero respect for you. Maybe you should trying standing up for yourself.

What you've been doing hasn't worked to well has it?

Or continue to play the victim.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

> "I am not crazy, I know he took them, he did it purposely to me, he is an enemy and a sadistic person. *I will make sure he is destroyed. He should be dead.* I will destroy him so bad , court anywhere, that he will ENVY the dead.!"


 If you had that recorded that should be enough for a restraining order, which would get her out of the house and keep her away from you all the time. Do something or you're going to short circuit . It's all up to you to fix it, no one is going to come to your rescue. They've even turned your kid against you which has formerly been your excuse to do nothing.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

*Re: Avalanche - BIG TROUBLE AHEAD*

Ok, yes, the roof is on fire! My wife is enlisting my son to help her arm herself with stuff against me. I'm a bit scared, and dismayed. My son isn't doing it willingly, but not sure what to believe. My "alternate email" was breached, and found out logs, recordings, even counseling, and links to this site. Even some conversations I had with relatives. I was a desperate man under duress doing everything I could to exhaust possibilities to save my marriage and family. She even copied some SPAM as "evidence" of me cheating (Never ever ever cheated on my wife, talked to woman f2f or electronically). Apparently, and I'll admit this here, I downloaded a photo of someone in a bikini, was of passing interest at some point but in my email. Now this is her "smoking gun" proof I was "cheating" 

Now, I SPOKE WITH AN ATTY - he says most D's are all about business - Finances, assets, and kids. Rarely is there the intense drama that my wife and MIL are salivating to do to me - cut me up into little pieces and flush me to the drain. Thru the years they spoke of leaving my FIL in his underwear - but he was in control, and came out pretty clean - so I am living in this shadow, and the MIL wants to give my wife the divorce SHE herself never had. I think she is so mentally ill, she believes I am a copy of her EX!! One thing I would HAVE to stay in the house until a D is final - but I may die from a stroke before then. Toxic environment. One thing possible, maybe to stipulate MIL gets out of house during this time. I don't know yet.

My wife one minute hints at keeping us together doing it for us and the kids, to the next min telling me to go with my *****.(the pic on the mail) Again, the atty I spoke with says this stuff wouldn't be admissable, and if she wanted to use the kids as pawns, there would be a bigger price to pay. I also, in the faint hope of staying w/my wife, visited a psychiatrist, who gave me anti-anxiety medicine. She was then supposed to goto counseling to me. I feel very betrayed and that my life is minute to minute under a gun. I should have been calmly working on this months-year ago, now its an avalanche for sure. Atty said NOT to answer MIL or wife or fall into yelling traps either. Easy for him to say.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

*Re: Avalanche - BIG TROUBLE AHEAD*



goodmandown said:


> Atty said NOT to answer MIL or wife or fall into yelling traps either. Easy for him to say.


Good on you for finally getting an attorney. 

Now assuming the attorney is not your wife or MIL's attorney and assuming it is not her cousin that agreed to take your case cheap, your #1 rule here is DO WHAT YOUR LAWYER SAYS and do not do anything on your own without first consulting with your lawyer. 

Every instinct and intuitive thought process that you are going to have throughout this ordeal is going to be wrong. I'm not trying to be mean or to put you down, I am simply dealing in fact. You have been very passive and codependent and your default instincts here are going to be to try to not make waves or upset your W and MIL and your intuitions and gut feelings are going to be telling you to cooperate with them and to back down when they start getting mad or nasty. 

This is going to hurt you deeply and put you in even worse shape as time goes on. Your lawyer is a 3rd party professional who has been hired to advocate for your best interests and well being and provide you with expert legal counsel based on the divorce laws of your jurisdiction. 

Your lawyer has been to law school, then studied family/divorce law (hopefully you haven't hired a corporate law attorney or a criminal attorney or real estate attorney etc) and has worked hundreds of divorce cases. 

He/she knows whats best for you even if his/her advice seems counterintuitive to you. You will not be able to outsmart your attorney and you will not be able to outsmart your W and MIL. They are more evil than you are smart. Do not try to out maneuver them. You are a babe in the woods compared to them and they will eat you for a between meal snack if you try to take them on by yourself. 

Hand this one over to your attorney and let your attorney handle it. Do not try to save a few bucks by trying to legal wrangle this by yourself....you will lose and be gobbled up for lunch. 

Do what your attorney says and only what your attorney says. Do not try to do anything and I do mean anything on your own. It will be the wrong thing.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

*Re: Avalanche - BIG TROUBLE AHEAD*



oldshirt said:


> your #1 rule here is DO WHAT YOUR LAWYER SAYS and do not do anything on your own without first consulting with your lawyer.
> 
> Every instinct and intuitive thought process that you are going to have throughout this ordeal is going to be wrong.


Ditto that!

What seems logical or moral is frequently exactly the *wrong* thing to do. Things which seem to be inconsequential can actually be huge. Follow your lawyer's advice! And as oldshirt says, don't do anything without consulting with your lawyer.

Now that you have a lawyer to advise you, you have a very major advantage over your W and MIL. Really. Don't discount this. Your W and MIL will be doing stupid things which will work to your advantage.

As far as the psychiatrist goes, that sounds like a good step on your part. Some meds might really help you out. Keep in mind, though, that a psychiatrist is an MD who prescribes medications. Most of them don't specialize in therapy. They are doctors who went to medical school, and they are well qualified to deal with the medication side of things. *Psychologists* have a Ph.D. in psychology. Similarly, Masters level therapists have a Masters degree in psychology. Those kinds of therapists are experts in therapy, and (with extremely few exceptions) cannot prescribe medications. In many cases a client will use the services of both. Frequently they will be in therapy with a Psychologist, and the Psychologist will consult with a Psychiatrist to get the right mix of Rx medications.

You may find that a therapist will be a big assist for you. If you feel you really need someone to talk to, consider finding a therapist. Your psychiatrist may recommend someone they work with regularly.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I would assume you are entitled to half the house. What did the lawyer say? 

I would have packed my bags and left a long time ago. Let's those two get jobs and pay the damn mortgage.


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

So, I'm still advising w/other attys to get 2nd opinion. 

I went to psych at my wife's request - i was afraid she wanted to get on paper a record of my "mental instability", but ant-anxiety med, might mute my instinctual response to their rubbish.

I know I built a horrible picture of my wife, unintentionally, but intentionally for WICKED EVIL MIL. My wife was in tears today, as she feels that I spoke about details of our marriage to her cousin whom she declared long ago her "WORST ENEMY" Truth is, her relatives know all about MIL, her mental illness, and anger issues from the past, and most of this FIL spread to that side. It was like a confirmation that they know and understand, but my wife is spitting mad, and becoming so emotionally distraught that I "betrayed" her beyond repair, I don't know how this can be fixed anyway. She thinks now from maybe over a 2 week text conversation, I've been talkng to her for a year, and meeting with her, calling, etc. NOT TRUE. She says she'll call cousin's husband to let her in on "our love affair", but actually her husband knows I've been talking about these familial issues, and he doesn't give a rats ass - their marriage is solid and secure, and they would not turn on each other. My wife has a horrid imagination running away. So even taking one ant-anxiety med, she still goes to her mom and complain. It's nice to have a built in mommy machine to vent and complain 24/7 around the clock. This MIL wants nothing less than my death and destruction!!! WIFE BETRAYED ME!! How she feels about me talking to her relative, is EXACTLY how I felt for 2 years. Locking myself in my room, while MIL and wife, talk and watch movies to the wee hours in the night and comes to be, back turned to me at 3-4am, sometimes later!! My wife says, you could come and watch with us too! I cant be within 10 feet of MIL, without her scowling and making comments and gestures at me!! I told my wife (upon deaf ears) that probably its the wife's job to pay attention to the husband and give him companionship and affection, so A MAN WON'T WANDER!! 

I am very sad, and I can't help but hurt, when my wife cries --- not the same the other way around...more later


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

Marital assets - but I have NO intention of taking the house where my kids live. Not even a thought


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Trade off your portion of the house for something else of value. What generally happens is all the assets and debts are added up. You then get half of the net amount. For example if the house has $100k of equity in it, you are entitled to $50k of it. But you don't have to force your wife to sell it to give you the money. Instead, you get more of something else. It might mean you get more of the retirement savings, or she takes more of the debts. In the end you should both end up with about the same amount of total value.

Note that fairness might be the goal, not a strict mathematical 50/50 split. In my state the law actually instructs the court to find a fair outcome. I ended up with about 55% of the net value, which was about fair under the laws here.

Please be alert to a common reaction where you might give away a lot more than you should. At one point I would have walked away and given my xw virtually everything. If I had done that I would now be living in a trailer, literally. A lot of people experience this. DO NOT GIVE AWAY WHAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO!! Your ability to be a good parent and to take care of yourself into the future depends on you having a stable financial situation. Protect what is rightfully yours. Don't get into some kind of misguided idea of helping out your stbxw. She is an adult and can take care of herself. MIL is also there and can contribute (rent, utilities, etc) in a fair way. You do not owe your stbxw anything extra. You know she is not going to be offering you all kinds of extra money in the split!!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: Avalanche - BIG TROUBLE AHEAD*

Don't interact with wife or MIL. Route everything thru your attorney.

Stop acting like they have control over YOUR behavior. 




goodmandown said:


> Ok, yes, the roof is on fire! My wife is enlisting my son to help her arm herself with stuff against me. I'm a bit scared, and dismayed. My son isn't doing it willingly, but not sure what to believe. My "alternate email" was breached, and found out logs, recordings, even counseling, and links to this site. Even some conversations I had with relatives. I was a desperate man under duress doing everything I could to exhaust possibilities to save my marriage and family. She even copied some SPAM as "evidence" of me cheating (Never ever ever cheated on my wife, talked to woman f2f or electronically). Apparently, and I'll admit this here, I downloaded a photo of someone in a bikini, was of passing interest at some point but in my email. Now this is her "smoking gun" proof I was "cheating"
> 
> Now, I SPOKE WITH AN ATTY - he says most D's are all about business - Finances, assets, and kids. Rarely is there the intense drama that my wife and MIL are salivating to do to me - cut me up into little pieces and flush me to the drain. Thru the years they spoke of leaving my FIL in his underwear - but he was in control, and came out pretty clean - so I am living in this shadow, and the MIL wants to give my wife the divorce SHE herself never had. I think she is so mentally ill, she believes I am a copy of her EX!! One thing I would HAVE to stay in the house until a D is final - but I may die from a stroke before then. Toxic environment. One thing possible, maybe to stipulate MIL gets out of house during this time. I don't know yet.
> 
> My wife one minute hints at keeping us together doing it for us and the kids, to the next min telling me to go with my *****.(the pic on the mail) Again, the atty I spoke with says this stuff wouldn't be admissable, and if she wanted to use the kids as pawns, there would be a bigger price to pay. I also, in the faint hope of staying w/my wife, visited a psychiatrist, who gave me anti-anxiety medicine. She was then supposed to goto counseling to me. I feel very betrayed and that my life is minute to minute under a gun. I should have been calmly working on this months-year ago, now its an avalanche for sure. Atty said NOT to answer MIL or wife or fall into yelling traps either. Easy for him to say.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stop talking. You are half the reason for all this awful drama because you FEED it instead of ignoring it. 




goodmandown said:


> So, I'm still advising w/other attys to get 2nd opinion.
> 
> I went to psych at my wife's request - i was afraid she wanted to get on paper a record of my "mental instability", but ant-anxiety med, might mute my instinctual response to their rubbish.
> 
> ...


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## goodmandown (Aug 27, 2017)

I am locked in my room now - away from MIL and W! ALL THEY ARE DWELLING ON is the discovered text messages to the cousin. Scanning through it like a fine tooth comb. They now have a new (old) bogeyman that is responsible for our failing marriage. And, they are sharing and showing this to my kids. Kids are asking questions, like why would I communicate with the cousin. I just say I was looking for answers.....But MIL and W have an obsession with exacting revenge on the cousin, for talking with me and dishing dirt. W even threatening to call her husband saying we're having a text affair. Thing is, her husband knows all about this. Anyway, I still don't know why I did this, maybe part to find out about FIL, who is close to cousin, and the MILs checkered past. Find out why they split.

All they MIL and W talk about now is cousin cousin cousin. I get sick listening to this. W even says she's gonna confront her cousin - about what??

Earlier while wife was crying (like I literally and physically cheated on her), she says we can get a nice divorce if I want, let's go together. Of course, I didn't bite. My wife needs someone at some point to open her eyes. NOT ONE OUNCE OF MY HURT, PAIN AND SUFFERING registers with her. She is the victim, like her mother was 30 years ago.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Get out of your victim chair


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Seriously enough. Grow a backbone already. You are locked in your room? Get a handle on yourself already. 

Your poor kids. If I knew you personally I would call DCF.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

It is time to disengage and use the strategies found in "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty". STFU, Broken Record, Fogging, etc.

With your kids I would say that this is an adult matter between you and your wife. It has nothing to do with the kids and they should stay completely out of it. It is wrong for their mom to be USING them like this. Broken Record on this one. "Johnny, this has nothing to do with you. Your Mother is wrong to involve you in this. This is an adult matter between me and your mom". Whatever he says, just repeat what you already said.

Do not get into defending yourself or explaining yourself to your kids.

Ditto your W and MIL. Don't defend yourself or explain yourself to them. "I'm sorry you feel that way". "I'm sorry you feel that way". "I'm sorry you feel that way". Don't get dragged into conversations about this stuff with them. Don't let them harangue you with this stuff. If they start in, say "I don't wish to discuss this with you". If they persist, repeat that line one time only. Then if they try again, calmly and pleasantly leave. "I have some stuff to clean up in the garage" or whatever. Be pleasant, and do not engage at all on these topics with them.

You have nothing to gain by discussing any of this with your W, your MIL, or your kids.

You are not responsible for their emotional state.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I have never been more annoyed at a thread more than this one. Hey you want to be treated like crap go for it. But your kids don't deserve this.

Stop ***** footing around and file for a divorce already. Stop crying about being locked in your room and be a man already. Your kids deserve that.


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