# time to write...



## Pob (Jan 7, 2016)

41yM, 3kids.
about five years ago went through a rough spot. my wife was always the 'perfect' one in the relationship. my work was increasingly stressful, I could feel the distance growing....it was a very frustrating time. at times I would lose my composure and say hurtful things. i would also try to express what I was feeling, and seemed to fall on deafened ears or little resolution ever occurred. our arguments intensified, and she asked me to move out. We understood the seriousness of this move, and frankly I had no idea what to do. I sought marriage counseling for us and she was very sluggish on the idea. so move out I did. 

I continued to try to communicate, learning that I really should limit my comments or statements to one, calm, considerate thought a day maximum. I would visit the home, kids, and do my part as best I could. all the more, work intensified and was all the more stressful. I had recently failed an examination perhaps similar to an airline pilot and felt my work, home, personal...all aspects of my life were in trial and very close to the end of the rope. 

I noted she was closely communicating with colleagues of ours as we work in the same field, but not together. one was divorced, and the other divorced and remarried. certainly 'power' women. I asked if she thought this was helpful to us. little reply, just that they are friends. I felt she absolutely set me on fire to our colleagues as I was not perfect. in the meantime I dragged us to several MC, only the third made some sense to us. I attended probably double the sessions she did and when asked how invested she was, she stated 2/10, and I put forth the 10/10. I knew I had to change some things....and was working hard on it. 

then it happened. she was in the shower, her phone sounded .... I was home at the time, message reads 'thinking of you'. 

I ask about this, she says its her GF we both know. I dismoss and leave. I go to study, and I text her inquiring. She says it was from 'Gary'. a third mutual colleague and former friend of mine as well. 

now the thoughts race, I recall the company party where she playfully jumped on his back. the concert we all went to, with his wife too----yet I had just learned he was divorcing her. 

another concert they went to as I had to study....with her GF too, but the GF ended up meeting with her BF in the other city and Gary, our kids, and my wife all spent the night at her dads. and remarkably, my father in law decides to take the kids out for bowling leaving the two of them at his place.... and in the 12 years of marriage he never had taken the kids anywhere or showed up for a birth of a child. wtf. talk about feeling the odds stacked. 

obviously alarms are sounding huge. distraught and fog just don't sum it up. I couldn't find my car from where I was. I only wish I found this TAM site then, as what followed didn't help. 

I blamed my self for everything. I did call POSOM calmly, as I surely couldn't use a riot act as my wife was extremely sensitive to raised voices at the time, swearing, etc. etc as her father never even sore, parents rarely fought and I grew up in a living, loving, and at times volatile/very expressive household. after all, she liked that about me initially. the family communication I had, togetherness, conflict resolution etc. so I learned in counseling how to communicate in a different manner. 

so we were obviously now sexless, which really messes a guys head up. counselors advised me to back off. and i did. if she chose to text, call, whatever, whomever, I had to let go. and I did. 

and it burned me up. the old me died. for better or worse. 

5 years passed. about once a week or month I'd say, I can't even look myself in the mirror. I'm without resolution. I can't forget all those feelings. I would say we have to move. too many memories I haven't even touched here. 

the sad Irony that the exam I had to pass, the class was previously instructed by Gary. so I had to study for months and I could just hear that sickly voice.

it took about two months to get my head on straight to realize, wait, I should move out? she should move out!!!!

so against her will, I moved back into my own home. I would look at phone records and see she was texting Gary and the other two divorcees daily. "He's just a good friend". 

wow. 

so we were sexless for about 9 months. that really messes a guys head up. I now think anything over 1 month is red line and 'gloves are off'. I won't ever allow such a thing again. I'd be gone. 

after that period of great pain. I passed my exam. regained the weight I lost. started to work out. ran half marathons and won 5k's for my age. my family was still together. but I didn't feel the same. I used to feel I could accomplish anything with my wife, wven when I was struggling/angry. I would come back to us. I never felt that come back feeling completely. 

then it happened. a stunning, tall, smiling ray of sunshine crossed my path. 

we started to run. we laughed. smiled. shared stories. she just cut off her engagement and I happened to be there for support. it was mutually healing it seemed. 

yes, I had to lie to spend time. but after 5y, I felt something good again. we never went physical. we both agreed couldn't do that as it just hurts too much. 

then my wife had her D day. it all hit the fan. she was in my phone while I was sleeping and woke me with a punch to the head. I don't blame her. 

since then, our sex hasn't been better. for the first time ever!, she said Gary was a snake, and I needed to wake up. and for the first time I think she understands what I went through. why does it take this to get to understanding??

so currently I am not communicating with OW, but she does cross my mind. I had thought of leaving my life for her, but that would have been pretty messy. wife threatened billboards and to destroy us. who knows what would have happened. 

so basically, were 'even'?

is this even repairable. we get along ok. take care of the kids ok. physically were better than ever I think. she gets occasionally, daily, spiteful thoughts....but so did I. its amazing how the others who come close to a family never feel a repercussion, but the family suffers so much.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Looks like she got the truth. 

Did you get the same about her affair?


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

I had hard time understanding your story my friend.

I think it went like this : 

You were really bad towards your wife and she decided to kick you out. Then you worked hard to become a better person,better husband but she still refused to work out on your marriage.

Meawhile she was spending her time with this Garry guy and two others.

Even her father pushed them together. This tells me they think so little of you my friend.

Your sex life with your wife was almost to zero.

Now when you meet a good woman,who respects you,your wife goes angry with you and suddenly she wants to keep you for herself.

This is clear to me my friend. She have her best time of life with Garry and probabbyl others while you worked hard. Now she wants to put this all behind you and go to future like nothing happend.

She still works with Garry and two others.

Feel sorry for you my friend.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Even? 

Hmmmmm, sounds like your wife may have been servicing Gary's sexual needs and he's still there. So he's still in the picture tending to her needs. 

I suspect you shocked her and she's reclaiming her territory but I'd bet it's temporary. Gary will step back into the picture probably.

You are alone on the mountain here pal. If I were you I'd be doing some deep hard thinking and she would have to come clean as well as complete no contact with her boys.

Obviously daddy wants you gone. It would be hard to stay in/around a family of snakes who see nothing wrong with that behavior not to mention encouraging it.

Even???? You know the answer to that. Better start looking at a long term perspective for the rest of your life here. Own your part of this but make sure your wife owns hers if you want to stay. 

Otherwise you're just her and daddy's doormat. If not file for divorce and get the hell out of this snake pit.

As you've experienced there are better out there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And your FIL is an enabler to allow your wife to cheat on you and his own grandkids?

How the hell does he sleep at night?

Is Gary her only lover?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> And your FIL is an enabler to allow your wife to cheat on you and his own grandkids?
> 
> How the hell does he sleep at night?
> 
> ...


A snake like that POS sleeps just fine. It's probably in the damn bloodline though.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Your whole family needs to be in counseling, kids witnessed you're a cake eating wife's Affairs, even your FIL enabled his own daughter's affair. Marriage and your family future not looking too good. You'll see what happens by rug sweeping your wife's multiple affairs with multiple OM's and your affair. Sorry buddy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

How old are your children?

That's the only question I'd have before telling you to dump her immediately.

Actually, even with relatively young children I would dump her immediately. Calling her a snake is an insult to snakes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And with the whole family's attitude to cheating maybe have the kid's DNA tested?

After all her affairs might date back a long way. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

with Gary and OW, they are good because they don't have to carry the relationship 24x7, or worry about externals. they are secure, have little risk, and only fun.

between the otherPartner and your W/H the relationships are very different. It actually takes conscious effort to build the relationship that you need, and like a pairs competition sandcastle you can't do it alone, and the tides of chance aren't going to build it for you.

wish they taught this stuff in schools.... but sadly school teachers are generally the least experienced at life outside the institution...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sorry, I had trouble following the timeline. Were you and your wife separated or divorced for 5 years. Was she engaged to someone else?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Calling her a snake is an insult to snakes.


Uh yeah. I happen to like snakes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

The way you describe still describe the OW is very telling. 

And many affair partners also feel repercussions, far worse sometimes. If the AP was single especially, because at least the WS has someone to go back to.


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## Pob (Jan 7, 2016)

Ok. Let me try to clear this up. It appears from the responses my writing was too emotionally based and confusing. 

First a timeline. 
3 kids. 13,12,10. 

Nov. Work/life is tough. I bring problems home.

Dec. move out. No sex. Counseling. Attempts at Rec. 

Feb. Learn about communication w posom. Absolutely no evidence of PA. That would have been easy. As in, I'm out. I wish I had TAM advice about VAR etc back then as I was way too straightforward on my position then. I have no doubt EA was significant. Deleted texts. Strange behavior. All the things all over these Coping posts. 

April. Move back in. No sex. She's distant. "Pissed at me". And you thought Antarctica was cold ? Btw. My closest friend who I confided everything to was basically like, what the hell else did you do?? Bc I'm not that bad !!! But remember FIL never swore raised voice etc. He's a Strange measuring stick to have for your wife, and I asked plenty of times why she'd pick me as I can be expressive. 

And to clarify. FIL did not enable as it sounded in OP. He took kids out of home as he planned , but he is a "nerd" who NEVER would suspect his daughter of any kind of inappropriate relationship in any way. And frankly. I didn't either. That's the burn. 

Aug. Bad, rare sex. Better than nothing. 

Relationship slowly thaws. 

March. Communication with posom terminated by wife. She wouldnt have told me. I asked bc when I saw her speaking on phone picking kids up from
School. I could see by body language something was up. She said she told him he was destructive. Needy. And would no longer speak with him. 
------------------------------
---And that's an important part. She likely would not have told
Me she terminated communication. Or if she did, it would be, we don't talk anymore. That's it! For >4y I sought information. Little to nothing !!! 
(Until I met someone) then she admits her EA more fully. 

I may get flamed here, but it took my EA for her to understand her EA. Wtf. 

Or I'm a jack who made the same mistake !! 
----------------------------------
Resume timeline. 
--posom asked her if he should call and apologize to me. She put forth that I don't want to speak to him. Which is true. Posom. But I wonder if I should have gone for info. Nope. He's dirt. Anyway you look at it. He's dirt. 

4 yrs of living together. "Normal" married life. No known communication with others on either of our parts. No EA. 

Oh yeah, I call a dept at work just prior to my EA.... And yes it's posom on phone I get to talk to. 5y later could reach through phone and .... 

Present- I meet a companion runner. She's good company. Possible whole new set of baggage of course. 


So it is even in that it was one EA, then another. No PA. But as you may know. EA can hurt just as bad. 

And losing him, were you drinking ?  Vodka? You really like snakes ?? Interesting post there given your other posts. 

Hope that clarifies something. 

I am not delusional. She has sworn up and down no PA. Her other two friends were female/divorced. No PA there. 

FIL was no help. But no enabler. I would cut him off 100% if I believed that. He simple mindedly would have thought --- "have fun at concert. I'm taking kids out. " And I did bring all this and more up to him which didn't go particularly well but it showed me that side of family has some real communication issues. 

So, trading EA? Not ideal at all. But that's where I'm
At.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Welcome back my friend.

You are not trading anything with you wife,especially not EAs !!!

You are living in marriage built on lies and you wont open your eyes.

She lied to you back when she was with Garry and she is lying to you now.

Her girlfrieds - divorced by the way helped your wife. 

I can bet my life they gave her "nice advice" to move you out of the house so she could feel safe and chase this Garry guy. After all people who are Separated always tell "I am not cheating,we are separated" so it is ok for them to do anythign they want.

About you speaking with Garry - dont do it. They have the same stories.

He is not dirt. Your wife is dirt. She caused you pain not this man.

You know why your sex life was so low ? Your wife was saving herself for this man.

Best of luck for you my friend. Be a good example for your own kids.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are working hard at justifying your denial. No EA lasts that long without sex especially when they are in physical contact. Make no mistake a woman in an affair will withold sex from her spouse as she won't cheat on her lover.

Garry may be A POS but your wife willingly accepted him didn't she? For 4 long years!

You may not be the perfect husband, none of us are but it never justifies a cheater.

You are here for a reason. Deep down you know. Have her take a polygraph or file for divorce.

If you want some closure if not then you must accept living as a doormat.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Seems to me the H being angry all the time is a very popular subject when the WW starts to

re-write history. 4 years.... he!! that's longer than some Ms.

How truthful has she been with you? Don't answer, we already know.

Do you see anything worth saving or are you spent?

There is a life out there.... or are you prepared to spend the next 30-40-50 years with a lying cheater?

Keep in mind.... your children are growing up in a dysfunctional home.

By what you posted your children's future will be as follows....

Your girl(s) will emulate their mom and seek out doormats to marry and cheat on.

Your son(s) will be just like you and grow up to be doormats ..... 

if you accept things and rugsweep


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## MommaGx3 (Jan 12, 2016)

Question: Are you generally happy and satisfied with your life?
Is your wife happy and satisfied with life?
Are your kids happy?

Your current relationship, honestly sounds kind of toxic too me. Too much has happened, too many negative feelings are floating around. It makes it a very fragile foundation, one that can be easily broken and all the negative comes swarming across wiping out everything in it's path. Both you and your wife have demonstrated the "wandering eye". If this negativity and behavior is coming out in front of the children, if the children are learning of the infidelity. They are at a very tender age as tweens and learning about mature relationships. I really don't think it's a good influence to them to see you both behaving this way. It would be better for them to see that when two people are unhappy together and no longer fulfilling needs, the healthiest option is to officially cut it off so hidden activities, lies, mis-direction isn't needed.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You are delusional if you believe her that there was no PA! Tell her she has to take a polygraph and you will know. When she says you take one...say OK let's go!. Get it done....don t just threaten. She will not take one because it was physical........


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

I've got alarm bells ringing in my head like crazy at this story. I can't believe it was just an EA on her side, but I'll admit I'm putting myself and my story into yours.

Being burned, I'd be highly mistrustful of anything she's said, and encourage you to find out anything you can. Recover phone etc. That's what I did, and it's coming from my experience, but I realize I'm not in your situation.

If I can offer advice - if you do recover her phone or go digging, have a trusted friend go through the results and report back to you. I found texts from my wife to the OM that still haunt me to this day. Just like they say you don't want to listen to them having sex on a recording, you don't want to read all the little 'I miss you,' 'I don't think I can wait until next week to see you,' and 'it was sooo good' texts that will crush your soul.

If you want to repair the marriage, definitely don't read anything you find. If you want to end it - go hog wild.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It ain't anywhere close to "repairable," sad to say! Deception has been at an all-time high, and they have left you with little to nothing to hang your hat on!

Don't subject yourself to further heartbreak! Divorce her and move on!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Divorce.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Pob said:


> I may get flamed here, but it took my EA for her to understand her EA. Wtf.


You won't get flamed because you are the only person in this thread that thinks your wife had an EA



> I am not delusional. She has sworn up and down no PA. Her other two friends were female/divorced. No PA there.


Did she ever elaborate on why Gary was a "snake"? Oh, and the reason she didn't want you to talk to Gary was incase he said something like "I'm really sorry for sleeping with your wife all this time..."


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Gary is a snake...... Now she realized it when he left her high n dry. She feels used... and she was.... that's life


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Many signs point to a physical affair. Is that a deal breaker for you?

Like others have said, if you cant get ahold on her old phones and recover deleted texts, etc. a poly is in order.

Divorce is NOT worse than living with a cheater if that's what you decide to do.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Garry was a snake who resided in your wife's pants.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Pob

You should have told your wife this

"Honey, please go back to sleep. Because as soon as I hear your steady breathing I am going to hit you right in your head. That way I'll know for sure you understand the hurt and anguish you put me through for the last 4-5 years."

Then add

"Be cause if you ever do that to me again you will leave the house and I will go back to jogging with my new exercise partner. Good night honey. I love you."

That is how you communicate with your wife my friend.

Clearly, honestly and with the same vigor she showed you. That way you both know you are understanding each other....

HM


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You and your wife are poison to one another. Stick a fork in it and move on. She's not sorry. She's just pissed that another woman has taken her place. 

This situation is an all around clusterfvck you have allowed to fester for too many years. End it.


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