# The Bottom Line..Is Divorce a sin? (in the christian belief)



## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Alot of you probably know my story..but the bottom line is I love my wife..she loves me...but we have almost no sexual chemistry and its always been that way..I am usually after her..she enjoys sex..never initiates...the affection just isnt there very often anymore and feelings get hurt far too often..married just about four years..no kids..

Ok..not sure if I am missing something..but when I read the new testament what I get out of it is that Divorce itself isnt a sin..but re-marrying as long as your spouse or ex-spouse is alive IS a sin..

Now I am not saying I want to get divorced..I still want it to work out with my wife..but the thought has crossed my mind..heck it crossed my mind the second night of our marriage when my wife thought it was a good idea for us to sleep in the same room as her parents..(granted, it was her last night with her parents for the next year or so..but still..we were just married and had both been modern(only oral no penetration) virgins until wedding night)

But I continue to struggle with the thought that if I were to ever get divorced..how thats seen in the Christain Belief...
If two people just decide its not working out for them..and they decide to call it..no cheating on each other..just decide to go seperate ways..and then they meet new people..whom they marry eventually..is this a sin in the Christian Belief?


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Yeah, it would be a sin. There is however forgiveness. 

Part of the issue in your own marriage is going to be you, and leaving now will mean you don't fix that part and bring it into your next relationship.

There isn't an easy answer. No matter what you do its going to be hard from here.

I wish I could give you more. I really liked the book "sacred marriage" if your interested. 

God bless. I wish I could give you a better answer.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

My question for you is what exactly do you mean there is forgiveness..forgiveness from whom..and would it be ok to follow through with my second marriage?
Like you say its a sin..but then there is forgiveness..does that forgiveness only count if I were to leave my second wife because I came to the realization that it was wrong?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Jesus stated that the only justifiable grounds for divorce is adultery. In this case, the loyal spouse can remarry. But, the disloyal spouse is still bound to their ex and would be committing adultery if they remarried.

Paul later broadened justifiable divorce to include abandonment by an unbeliever. If an unbeliever abandoned a believer, then the believer could divorce the unbeliever.

I believe those are the only two reasons for divorce spelled out in the New Testament.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Just my opinion: My answer goes against mainstream Christian beliefs, but I have seen it in popular articles in Christianity Today. What many people forget is the context of the New Testament. It was not meant to nullify the Old Testament, but to show that our works won't get us there.

At the time that much of the New Testament was written, people had taken extreme views on divorce. The entire Jewish culture seemed to believe in divorce for any reason. Basically, women were very vulnerable, because a man could legally divorce a woman for any reason, and it was supported by the Jewish law at the time. Annoying voice, bad cooking, you name it.

If you look at the context of Jesus' sermons, considering that every peron in the audience believe in this 'divorce for any reason', my argument is that he was trying to show them that marriage was a covenant, just like the old testament. It's dead serious. The reasons he listed were common reasons for breaking the covenant. 

Its a subtle point, but we try to use the Bible like an instruction Manual. If Jessus said this, its wrong, but if he didn't say this, then its not wrong. We read it as though it were written by lawyers, whereas he was trying to tell us just to go back to the fact that the marriage was a covenant. I mean, most of the Bible is an eternal idea, and not the simplistic legal document we try to turn it into. Marriage is about a covenent to carry the load of life together. A serious covenent, and not just feeling 'in love' all the time. It takes work.

We make a covenant to meet the needs of our mate. Adultery breaks that covenant. Denying sex breaks that covenant. There was never ever a time in the Bible when that was remotely even a possibility, if you consider the culture. Maybe Jesus would've mentioned items relevant to the 21st Century if a handful of time travelors were sitting in the audience when he was speaking, but it was not culturally relevant at the time. Yes, people argue about the duality of the intent, but I take it for granted that this was not a complex legal document we're talking about.

I could almost imagine if Jesus had added 'denying sex' to the list of reasons for divorce being justified. One Pharisee would've turned to another and asked, "Is this guy an idiot?" Sadly, at that time, a man took what he wanted in a marriage. That's why its not surprising that the New Testament was the first preaching ever about loving your wife more than yourself. It is my belief that Jesus was trying to get us to turn the corner to a place where women were equals.

The argument of a growing number of theologians is that the sin comes from breaking the covenant. Abandonment, even emotional, is breaking it. Denying sex. All of this were covered by the ideas within our wedding vow.

People forget that Jesus also taked about forgiveness when a spouse has a change of heart. This is not about easy outs. All of it is bound by the central Chrishtian expectation of Integrity, which is where many of our televangelists fall.

At some point, your conscience tells you that you've put the work into it, but your spouse has opted out. The decision has to be driven by your conscience and not by the unfulfilled desires.

Just my two cents.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi marriedguy,
I went back and read through your other posts to get a sense of you and your wife's story.

Now listen - I am a women that has been married almost 23 years to what would be considered a guy who is very high drive and I consider myself to have pretty much what most people would call "low drive" - I just don't think about sex much, never have, maybe never will. However, I consider it a very important part of marriage, and I am always willing for my husband, and he is very good at working me up to it.

The thing is, I always used to feel defective. I have come to realize that it's not really a defect - it's how MANY, MANY women are constructed (go do some research on Rosemary Basson and note that many women are 'wired' to be receptive responders and do not follow the same pattern of desire and arousal that men do.) My point is you cannot look at your wife's sexuality and her response in the same way you look at yours - she is different. You need to realize that and work with it. My guess is that she as a shy, young virgin really needed tender, loving guidance and leadership in the sexual department from you. She needs you to be constantly seducing her - not getting upset with her. Only when she is in an environment where she feels completely safe and trusts you will she be able to let the barriers down. Another good book to read is Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage": Passionate Marriage: Love, Sex, and Intimacy in Emotionally Committed Relationships [Book]

You have a great opportunity to create an intimate relationship with your wife. However, I sense you are impatient with it and with her. True intimacy is something that takes time and nurturing to develop. Just recently in another thread someone mentioned that women are like gardens - they need to have constant attendance that when given gives the gardener back many-fold when he reaps the benefit of the harvest.

Truly consider that if you give up on this relationship with your wife, any other relationship that you enter may encounter the same problem in time. Why? Well, you would be the common denominator.

Note my signature line by C. S. Lewis - it is really true.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

My ex mother in law told me she stayed in a unhappy/abusive situation because she thought it was the right thing to do. God probably didn't want her to get divorced. 

I remember looking at her and saying, I do not believe that God wants people to stay in unhealthy, unhappy and abusive relationships either. She is 80 some yrs old now, and still in it. Its a choice.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

I like your response Halien..your right about how we often view the Bible as a legal Instruction Manual..there are some extremely conservative Christians out there..they will do everything to the extreme..like if you go to their church it automatically means that you are not to have a TV in your house..You are not allowed to listen to the Radio..etc...I was raised that way till I was a teenager..so I get a very guilty conscious about alot of things...

Anyways, I realize breaking the covenant is wrong then...I feel like the bad guy if I were to call it, because my wife would never..
Its not just about she doesnt do this to please me..or we dont feel in love all the time..
Its just with the way we think..we are two completely different types of people from two completely different cultures..and as soon as the In Love stage was over there wasnt much left thats attracting us to each other..
We still have good days..days where I think of how I could never be without her..
I have been guilty of looking at other women on the internet....I told her all about it..but I also told her that I am always longing to be with her and feel like she doesnt feel the same way about me...I dont get why exactly she still wants to be with me...there isnt really anything that she loves about me...she pretty much disagrees with all my views and thinks that I think too much..

I dunno..gonna keep trying but often I feel like we are just hurting each other by being together..


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> I like your response Halien..your right about how we often view the Bible as a legal Instruction Manual..there are some extremely conservative Christians out there..they will do everything to the extreme..like if you go to their church it automatically means that you are not to have a TV in your house..You are not allowed to listen to the Radio..etc...I was raised that way till I was a teenager..so I get a very guilty conscious about alot of things...
> 
> Anyways, I realize breaking the covenant is wrong then...I feel like the bad guy if I were to call it, because my wife would never..
> Its not just about she doesnt do this to please me..or we dont feel in love all the time..
> ...


I believe that God intended the constant strife and grind (pardon the pun) of daily married life to be a people growing machine - it mimics the same struggles we have in our own personal intimate relationship with Him. And there is reward in it.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Enchantment..just read your comment after I wrote that last one..
and I think you nailed it..that is exactly how my wife is..
the problem is its hard for me to be with someone like that..I dont Always want to be the one having to initiate everything..honestly I think it is very boring..yes it was great at first..love how she never denys me..is always sweet to me..but after a while I realised that that sweetness is pretty much just sugar coating everything..its not real..like she is all over me when her parents are around...but as soon as they arent its back to the thick pajamas wife..laying in bed motionless night after night...she expects me to be all over her then..I have a really hard time being with someone that has such a low inner drive to do anything to try and save our marriage...I realise thats how she is..how she was raised..and its a great personality for alot of men..shes a very womanly woman...but damn..I want to see some energy from her..the only time I saw any sexual energy was before we were married..lots of dry humping went on with her leading the way..marriage happened and it turned around 180 degrees...wtf?????

Very often when I see her I see an old, peaceful..loving lady...
but physically she looks like she is 19..shes actually in her mid 20s


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

trey69 said:


> My ex mother in law told me she stayed in a unhappy/abusive situation because she thought it was the right thing to do. God probably didn't want her to get divorced.
> 
> I remember looking at her and saying, I do not believe that God wants people to stay in unhealthy, unhappy and abusive relationships either. She is 80 some yrs old now, and still in it. Its a choice.


I agree. God gave us the ability to be able to love and beloved to be in healthy situations. Of course we know there will be bumps along the way, but I agree that he doesn't want us in a bad situation. He does want us to try and do the best we can. However, He doesn't want us to be unhappy. Especially for the rest of our lives.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

marriedguy said:


> ...I realise thats how she is..how she was raised..and its a great personality for alot of men..shes a very womanly woman...but damn..I want to see some energy from her..the only time I saw any sexual energy was before we were married..lots of dry humping went on with her leading the way..marriage happened and it turned around 180 degrees...wtf?????
> 
> Very often when I see her I see an old, peaceful..loving lady...
> but physically she looks like she is 19..shes actually in her mid 20s


You know, I have thought about this a lot in my life and my marriage. I have a H who sounds a bit like you - although he has basically worked with what he had (me ) the best he could. Sometimes I wonder if we and our society put unrealistic expectations on ourselves, our spouses, and our relationships. As with any relationship, over time the newness and novelty wears off. When you get to middle age or old age, that old, peaceful, loving lady may be just the ticket. And even right now, another new lady may have some of the spice and absolutely NONE of the sugar, and you would find that equally intolerable.

marriedguy - I believe that given time and devotion and patience there can be SPICE that happens in a relationship with a SUGAR wife. I have found that in my own marriage - I am more forward and outgoing now. I understand your desire to have that NOW because you are young and raging. Again - there's that people-growing machine of marriage - the mis-match that happens so much that you have to work through.

I wish I had some great words of wisdom that would make it all better for you. I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts and prayers.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

Thank You Enchantment..again I like the Spice and Sugar comparison..and that is absolutely what she is..she is a Sugar...
I know what I get from a Sugar wife I wouldnt always get from a Spice wife...I know she would be there for me in almost any situation..
But still..I want Spice in our Marriage..
if Only I knew how to talk to her..how to be with her..what to say and what not to say to get a little spice from her..I wonder if there are women out there who are 50 percent spice 50 percent sugar...most likely its one or the other I guess...

I got a good women for the long haul...if me and her manage to stay together past 40 I am sure I wont ever regret it..its between now and then that I think itll be tough if the last four years give any indication..


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

If you are the higher drive partner, it is your job to initiate. I am definitely the higher drive, and have no issues with being the one who initiates. 

I can see a problem if your wife it totally uninterested going through the motions, but if you are having an issue feeling connected although you have to initiate as the higher drive, I think thats something you need to fix not your wife.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

With the info you have provided, yes it would be wrong to divorce your wife. Period, not even close. 

Good luck.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't care if it is a sin or lot, if I were in a marriage with a man who didn't meet my sexual needs, I wouldn't be happy, then I would want to divorce him. 

Sex to a marriage is like heart to a body, no sex, no marriage. We are just human being, we are not saints. Even some nuns and monks can't control their human desire. 

I am sure Paul understood the importance of sex, he told those widows to get married if they couldn't control their desire. if you are married, not providing sex is a sin too. Why would a person want to get married if he or she can't get any sex from his or her spouse.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm not a Christian, Catholic, Protestant, eastern or Russian Orthodox etc but my understanding is that divorce is forbidden in Roman Catholicism alone. I think even CoE/Anglican/Episcopal permits divorce and they're pretty much Catholics except with more Henry VIII and beheadings.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I'm not speaking from any churches standpoint but the bible. A previous poster nailed it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> I'm not a Christian, Catholic, Protestant, eastern or Russian Orthodox etc but my understanding is that divorce is forbidden in Roman Catholicism alone. I think even CoE/Anglican/Episcopal permits divorce and they're pretty much Catholics except with more Henry VIII and beheadings.


I can see the good points from this restriction. 

But it also gives the ones who don't try hard excuses not to do anything to make their marriage better.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Halien said:


> Just my opinion: My answer goes against mainstream Christian beliefs, but I have seen it in popular articles in Christianity Today. What many people forget is the context of the New Testament. It was not meant to nullify the Old Testament, but to show that our works won't get us there.
> 
> At the time that much of the New Testament was written, people had taken extreme views on divorce. The entire Jewish culture seemed to believe in divorce for any reason. Basically, women were very vulnerable, because a man could legally divorce a woman for any reason, and it was supported by the Jewish law at the time. Annoying voice, bad cooking, you name it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Interesting take on this.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

"Buyer's remorse" is not an acceptable justification for divorce according to Christian belief.


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## marriedguy (Nov 7, 2009)

827Aug said:


> "Buyer's remorse" is not an acceptable justification for divorce according to Christian belief.


I get it, we are supposed to try to make it work no matter what (as long as we havent been cheated on or our partner isnt taking us away from our christian beliefs)
But what happens when someone gets married at a really young age..barely even knows the person..and a few years later when you are a completely different person and your spouse is too..is there something wrong with just saying that we were young..inexperienced..not right for each other..lets move on and hope we find what we are looking for?

I remember the priest at our wedding saying that this was like a second life..everything in the past is history..this is a new beginning..together..So we were supposed to grow together..
Somehow..we have never been able to grow together..I seem to drag her down...shes alot happier when I am not around it seems..


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

MarriedGuy,

You made a life long choice to marry your wife, functions or dysfunctions, every part of her. Communicate, relate, open up to her, find out more about her life as she became the woman you are now married to. 

Don't just stay married to your wife, embrace her fully and take the rest of your life together to work out in faith and open communication together. Pray together often.

Jesus can heal any wound or pain. Never give up on your marriage.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Marriedguy, in black and white YES IT WOULD BE WRONG. From a Christian perspective that's it. 

Does it make it hard, sad, frustrating YES! 

Have you talked to anyone at your church about this?


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I really want to suggest again that u read sacred marriage. It was a great book. Also sometimes the patience part of love can take a long time.

Even with the struggles in my marriage, I have lived a very blessed life compared to any other time in history. Sometimes my biggest issue in the day outside of my marriage is what to watch on netflix.

Lastly, marriage is very often what we make it. You need to be 100% in the game.

Best of luck and God bless


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I am going to have side with everyone here.

You two ARE having sex. . .it may not be the spiciest sex, it may not be swing-from-the-chandelier's sex, but your marriage is consummated and therefore valid.

I am by no means a practicing Catholic but I imagine a tribunal would not grant you the right of annulment in this case.

I know you are kicking yourself. . .you are thinking you should have married a sl*t or something. . .well. . .life is weird. You marry a sl*t and she's out screwing the Philadelphia Phillies.

I am not sure if I suggested this before, but I'd like for you to look into the practice of Tantric Sex. Tantric Sex, while it has Hindu origins, is actually areligious and you don't have to be Hindu to practice it. (I am Intelligent Designer, not really Christian, but I enjoy Catholic history). Actually, it's a branch of yogic tradition, if I am not mistaken.

In fact, the "basics" of Tantric Sex is to just relax and "exchange" your partner's breath. You need disipline and she needs interaction without pressure probably.

What you perhaps see as a prision and "binding" could be what you are looking for. . .deepening the spiritual side of sex vs. a lot of hot monkey sex. You are full of sexual energy and she needs to be able to effectively receive it and channel it back as your partner.

Essentially, Tantric Sex is about not only mind blowing physical orgasms, and hours long love making, but heightening and making that bond between man and woman sacred through certain rituals (and techniques ) during sex.

Unfortunately, Christianity has often left us high and dry with married sex. . .with the Instruction Manual being Insert Tab A into Slot B and think "pure thoughts". In that, Christianity has failed the Institution of Marriage and you can tell any clergyperson I said so.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

And if you need an instructor, maybe I can take you on as a student in Mr. Miyagi fashion.

"Uuuuuuuup. . .. dowwnnnnnn. . .. Uuuuuuup. . .Dowwwnnnn. Paint the fence, Danielsan. Breath in. Breath out."

"Now. . .you and wife paint whole fence. . .while I go fishing.

Tommorrow. .. you and wife come back and sand the floor."


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

All attempts at humor aside, being a religious historian mini-buff, we can't fault the Catholic Church so much.

Look at this from their perspective.

The year is 1345 and you have Gonorrhea and Syphillis spreading like wildfire through Eurpoe with no scientific insight on how these diseases happen. In another 200 years, European religious radicals called Puritans will land in America and happily give these diseases to the hapless Native Americans but that is yet to happen. As a Priest, you are the Healer of the community (with perhaps some Pagan herbalists in the mix). In fact, you are probably the only one who can read in the community among the feckless and the great unwashed. All minds, eyes and souls look to you to make sense out of their miserable lives.

The Church of Modern Medicine wouldn't be around for another 600 years with their temples (Hospitals), baptisms (immunizations) and last rites (artificial vents and tubes/IV's and testing/CAT scans). Instead, it's the Christian temples, baptisms and last rites. You, as the community healer, have to watch helplessly as people die from the effects of tertiary syphillis, where unrelenting pain and insanity set in, along with festering boils.

So, let's put it this way - Prevention was everything. 

So, libido became the enemy and it had to be tamed and thus entered religious doctrine and preaching on the horrors of promiscuous extramarital sex.

ANd to a certain extent, it IS still somewhat true today, although there are condoms and testing. 

The Church of Modern Medicine has yet to whip STD's. Maybe in some ways it has done worse than the Catholic Church.

I am not sure why though other religions were able to adapt to sex being a healthy transition into monogamous married life whereas Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, struggled in this regard and the effects still linger today unless you happen to find a very openminded Priest or Minister who talks openly about the development of healthy sex in marriage to his congregation.

I am not sure of the STD history in ancient Indian and Asian culture but I am sure those critters were happily multiplying there as well. They just seemed to handle sex better as a culture.

Truth is all religions have something to offer us. I would look to draw upon yogic traditions to deepen your sexuality as a couple. . .it doesn't mean you have build a temple, light incense and bang a gong. You can still go to church on Sundays.

Good luck.

EDIT: I wanted to make a historical correction. It wasn't postulated that the European religious radicals gave Native Americans syphillis. . it was smallpox. I guess I remembered reading about syphillis being called "the great pox" and got the two diseases mixed up. Not sure on gonorrhea.

So. . .the historical account goes. . .Europeans gave smallpox to Native Americans and the Native Americans traded syphillis in exchange for that. And in all fairness to the Puritans, they were yet to arrive so this would have been just with a bunch of sailors on Columbus' ships. In 1494, they knew prostitutes were getting syphillis though. . . so. . .welcome to the New World. Here's your case of Syphillis.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

No I don't think Divorce is a sin, and I do believe in it. Depends on the situation. Minor issues and bumps in the road we all face isn't really a reason to get one though.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

marriedguy said:


> But what happens when someone gets married at a really young age..barely even knows the person..and a few years later when you are a completely different person and your spouse is too..is there something wrong with just saying that we were young..inexperienced..not right for each other..lets move on and hope we find what we are looking for?


 This is exaclty what my parents did. Speaking as their child, this was FOR THE BEST for all involved. I remember the fights, the tension in the house. 

He went on to marry his perfect complimentary companion with similar love languages, his Soul mate if one believes in such a concept, truly she was his. And he hers. 

My Mother, on the other hand, never found love again, she had no business marrying as young as she did, she did not know what she wanted or what marraige was about. She admits she was niave and just went along with my dad at the time. She never regretted the divorce, she knew it was for the best. None parted angry or hurt - it was agreeable.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

The issues you and your wife face can be worked out. Sounds like she has been taught that good girls don't initiate sex. She is modest, and perhaps a little embarrassed. If you want her to wear sexy lingerie then go buy it for her. Gently guide her into having the passionate sex you want.

Time, patience, and love can correct the sex issue.


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