# What is forgiveness?



## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

We are five months after D-day 1, when I discovered about one affair (from Sept-Dec 2012), and three months on from D-day 2 (when I discovered about the second affair, from Dec 2012 - Jan 2013). 

I have no reason to believe he has been up to anything since I found him out in March and we are in Reconciliation. Mostly it's going okay. Neither of us is perfect, but we're muddling along. I can tell that he is trying, and so am I.

But whenever I think about forgiving him for what he did, it's like I hit a brick wall. Forgiving seems to me to be saying that it's okay. It's not okay. It will never be okay. I will always have to deal with his infidelity and how it makes me feel. I still cry over it when I'm alone. I still find it hard to trust. My husband who I loved more than anything, and trusted totally, lied to me, and cheated on me with two other women. He can never undo what he did. He did it.

How do you forgive something like that?

What is forgiving anyway?


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

I wish I had the answer.

I filed for divorce. The less I see her, the less I have to keep getting angry at her. Out of sight out of mind.

I guess that is not an option for you.

The complete trust is never coming back, and that is probably the most painful thing out of all of this.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Robsia said:


> We are five months after D-day 1, when I discovered about one affair (from Sept-Dec 2012), and three months on from D-day 2 (when I discovered about the second affair, from Dec 2012 - Jan 2013).
> 
> I have no reason to believe he has been up to anything since I found him out in March and we are in Reconciliation. Mostly it's going okay. Neither of us is perfect, but we're muddling along. I can tell that he is trying, and so am I.
> 
> ...


I completely understand how you are feeling. I am 5 months from D-day of my husband's EA. He seems very remorseful, and I see no indication that they is still contact between them, but I'm having a difficult time forgiving also. Sometimes I look at him and just see that he is a flawed person I love so much and he just made some poor decisions, but other times I see a liar and don't know how to trust him. 

To me, forgiveness seems to be the same as forgetting and that is something I will never be able to do, but I have accepted what my husband did and it doesn't sting quite as much now.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I never did forgive. I just tried to move forward. So far as I am concerned, betrayers have to forgive themselves- if they care to do so.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

to forgive: (according to online Merriam-Webster)

1
a: to give up resentment of or claim to requital for 
b: to grant relief from payment of 

2
to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon 

I think it's worthy of note that "forgiving" is not "forgetting", neither does it require "reconciliation".

What your husband did to you will never be "ok". You will never tolerate it again, and, you can fully "forgive" him and not tolerate it this time. You have the complete choice whether to stay in the relationship, or not.

The "forgiveness" part of this is FOR YOU, not him. In forgiveness, there is a recognition on your part that your husband cannot "make up", "repay", or "heal" you from your injury, and you relinquish the "right" to receive any of those things from him.

In "forgiveness", you give up the "right" to hurt him in return for hurting you.

Forgiveness does not require you to act and behave toward him as if nothing happened.

This is an example of forgiveness, as I understand it:

I have "forgiven" the man who murdered my son.

I have no plans to sneak into the state prison with a handgun and blow his head off.
Neither did I make any attempt to do that when he wasn't yet caught. I left it up to God and the police to handle him.

I also have no plans to invite him, if he ever gets out of prison, to come to my house for Super Sunday and feed him supper at my table. Neither will I be visiting him in prison. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

I have no expectation that this man, by anything he could do, even surrendering his own life, could bring my boy back to me.
Therefore, I have no plans to attend any future parole hearings, trials, appeals, etc. It's just none of my business.

I want it this way because my boy cannot come to me, but I can go to him.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Robsia said:


> I have no reason to believe he has been up to anything ...
> 
> But whenever I think about forgiving him for what he did, it's like I hit a brick wall...
> 
> ...


Robsia,

I haven't followed your story closely, but I know from your posts how hard you have struggled. I hear honesty in you by the way you express you feelings.

Forgiveness has different interpretations. My view is that forgiveness is peace in your heart when you reach acceptence for their fault/sin/betrayal. 

It does NOT mean that you forget it, that you condone it, or that they are free of consequences. Sometimes a D is a consequence. Loss of trust is a consequence.

Forgiveness, to me, is a process. It is not something that can be granted while you are still struggling with the damage. Maybe it will take a lifetime to get through the process.

5 months from d-day 1, and 3 months from d-day 2? My dear friend, this is a very short time to be expecting forgiveness either by him, or by you for him.

I would think if we are talking about this in 10-20 years it would be a different topic. Do not burden yourself with the idea that you must forgive him now. I understand how religion plays into your expectations, but I also believe a fair and just God would understand if you give yourself more time.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

> I'm sure there are plenty more. Forgiving is very difficult.


Yes. In fact, it is, for men and women, only possible with God's help.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I adhere to the Biblical description of "forgiveness" which we are taught to immediately offer upon the offender asking for it out of a sincere and heartfelt contrition for their offensive act!

What it does not entail is "forgetting about it!"

Only our Heavenly Father can perform that feat!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

checkingout said:


> Sometimes I look at him and just see that he is a flawed person I love so much and he just made some poor decisions, but other times I see a liar and don't know how to trust him.
> 
> To me, forgiveness seems to be the same as forgetting and that is something I will never be able to do, but I have accepted what my husband did and it doesn't sting quite as much now.


Not to thread-jack, but I think there is something here that will help Robsia and you...

You both are deep in the pain. The forgiveness can't be given when you are at the bottom.

Do either of you feel that your love is increasing as you go through R? We are often full of love when we have a d-day. It takes time for the love to evaporate. It took me about 7-8 months. It takes time to realize that you are not in love with your WS anymore because of the false image that they present.

You loved who you thought they were, not who they really are.

It is okay to not love someone. It is okay to remove the source of pain from your lives. D is not a punishment, it is a different path. D is okay when you have no more love for your WS.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Some things in life are just unforgivable.

Some people do not place infidelity in this category.

Some do (and I agree with them).

Just figure out which category you are in Robsia.

If you are in the first, R will eventually be possible with time and if your WH shows true remorse and positive changes in his behavior.

If you are in the second group, then file for D as your foolish WH has already killed the M.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Robsia said:


> But whenever I think about forgiving him for what he did, it's like I hit a brick wall. Forgiving seems to me to be saying that it's okay. It's not okay. It will never be okay. I will always have to deal with his infidelity and how it makes me feel. I still cry over it when I'm alone. I still find it hard to trust. My husband who I loved more than anything, and trusted totally, lied to me, and cheated on me with two other women. He can never undo what he did. He did it.
> 
> How do you forgive something like that?
> 
> What is forgiving anyway?


Forgiving is letting go of the resentment, anger for something and not holding it against someone any longer. You may never be ready to forgive for a long time if at all. It certainly does not mean its okay or that you accept that what he did was okay. It just means you are putting it and it's emotions behind you and moving on. It doesn't mean you're ignoring it or rug sweeping but rather acknowledging it without holding it against them any longer. It is a step to take to heal the pain both of you feel when you are ready to let it go. 

Don't forgive unless you are really ready to let it go. A couple of other posters "forgave" their spouses in words only while holding on to a growing resentment that burst forth 20+ years later. That kind of forgiveness is false and is really rug sweeping the issue to move on and will harm you and him down the road.

Twenty seven years ago I was engaged to the love of my life but we were accepted to graduate schools in separate states so we couldn't be together. Our long distance relationship resulted in her befriending someone with whom she cheated on me. She could not bring herself to let me know. We last saw each other with the understanding that we would do whatever it took to be together. It was all lies. For years and years I hated her. My resentment did nothing but cause problems for other relationships and my current marriage. I never forgave her until recently upon reading Unbroken (a WWII POW epic survival story). After reading it I realized my resentment and hatred had no effect upon her but hurt only me. With this knowledge I finally let go. Now I feel sorry for her as a person more than anything else. Hate is a poison you take that harms you and does nothing to the person you hate.


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

Very sorry, Robsia. I read somewhere that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Unfortunately, we can't just forget painful parts of our lives. And I agree, forgiveness is a process. Some days will be better than others, sometimes it may seem you take one step forward and two steps back, but just keep walking.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Forgiveness has different interpretations. My view is that forgiveness is peace in your heart when you reach acceptence for their fault/sin/betrayal.


Seems like an oxymoron to me.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> Not to thread-jack, but I think there is something here that will help Robsia and you...
> 
> You both are deep in the pain. The forgiveness can't be given when you are at the bottom.
> 
> ...


This made me cry.

I love the man I married. I love the man I thought he was. I find it hard to realise that the man I thought he was could do something like this.

I wish I didn't love him. I wish I could let go.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Forgiveness is not a feeling, it's a state of mind. 

Forgiveness doesn't erase your memory. It doesn't always result in reconciliation. It doesn't eliminate the consequences of the offensive act. no way can forgiveness be confused with an building of trust; that's a totally separate issue. 

But.... genuine forgiveness is the only way your marriage is going to go forward as healthy, strong, growing and maturing. 

Do you want to grow old with this man? Do you want to let this eat at you the rest of your life with him? If not, you have to understand where your feelings are that block forgiveness. 

I get this; I am trying for complete forgiveness with my fWW. It's not as simple as what I just wrote. It's something you have to work on every single day. If the person you love is TRULY worth it in your heart, there is a part of your heart, hardened today, that will slowly soften. How can you tell? Trust starts to seep in. Happiness starts to replace suspicion. Both of you can relax on the porch in the evening, and the gut-hit of what happened in the past won't hit you. Or at least it won't hit you hard enough to make you want to throw your drink at him/her. 

Yet, it can be done. It does take time, and there's no set schedule for it. You have to just live your life, day to day, with your SO, and frankly in my case it takes two to forgive. There has to be some sign of remorse, regret, lots of loving things, and no "testing" of each other. 

It always takes two to have a relationship. It takes two people aimed in the same direction all the time to make a GOOD relationship.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Do either of you feel that your love is increasing as you go through R? We are often full of love when we have a d-day. It takes time for the love to evaporate. It took me about 7-8 months. It takes time to realize that you are not in love with your WS anymore because of the false image that they present.
> 
> You loved who you thought they were, not who they really are.


This actually did help. I have kept a journal of my feelings since D-day and I do see a definite improvement. 

The man I married 20 years ago was physically and emotionally abusive. He had major anger issues for the first 10 years of our marriage. I loved him then and still do, but that doesn't mean I will tolerate this again. I know he can change if he is truly remorseful because he has before.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Robsia said:


> This made me cry.
> 
> I love the man I married. I love the man I thought he was. I find it hard to realise that the man I thought he was could do something like this.
> 
> I wish I didn't love him. I wish I could let go.


If it makes you feel any better, I have decided to wait a year and see where things are. I know it'll take longer than that to fully heal, but if I'm not significantly further down the road to recovery, I will file for divorce.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

meson said:


> *Hate is a poison you take that harms you and does nothing to the person you hate*.


Man, I think I want that on a billboard somewhere!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Seems like an oxymoron to me.


LOL! It probably is...

Hope I don't come off as an expert forgiver...

I am still in the "process." 

Maybe that is just a vision of Utopia, Nirvana, or Kubla Khan.

Maybe I will complete the process as I walk through the door to God's judgement bar.

It is hard to see people beat themselves up over trying to forgive a lying, cheating, poor excuse of a spouse that they want to love.

No offense intended to those WSs trying to repent.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I liked a particular perception I heard on forgiveness.

Basically, forgiveness is the highest level of acceptance where the act you are forgiving no longer affects or plays a role in your perceptions or actions. 

Right now, it does. I’m not sure you’ll ever find full forgiveness when broken that bad since on some level, you won’t forget. But you can get very close.

So, to find it, you start making more and more acceptances of what happened and why. It’s a building process like the trust. It starts with accepting this did happen and finding out whatever it is you need to know until the questions stop. The next phase was the ‘what are you changing’ aspect and enough time passed where I stopped questioning whether those changes were enough and I no longer felt insecure about her or worried about a repetition.

There’s a detachment from it now. So, that’s about where I am at forgiving my wife. Not forgiven yet as I still see her as a former cheating spouse and a ‘avoider’ through lies and omission, but still well over that crest in the hill where the past-cheating isn’t causing distress anymore and it more focused on character of who she is becoming since that hasn’t played out yet.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

I tried to talk to him tonight. I went through the house phone - there were a lot of 'number withheld' calls recently. I asked him who they were from. He said they were from his ex-wife's, usually her or his sons phoning him.

I was upset, not that his sons phoned him, but that searching for stuff reminded me of when I used to scour the house searching for evidence of his affairs. He said it was my choice to look for stuff; I didn't have to. I was very upset. I cried down the phone at him; he is away working at the moment. His response was minimal to say the least. I asked him how he felt when I was upset. He said he felt nothing. I queried this. I said either he genuinely felt nothing about hurting me, or he was lying to me again, neither of which put him in a very good light.

Then he asked me how long was I going to punish him for this. FGS it's been five months since I found out about the first one, only three since the second one!!! It takes however long it takes. Years, if necessary.

He said, FGS it's not like I murdered someone.

I said, yes he did. He murdered my faithful husband and replaced him with a cheater.

He said "No, you did that when you..." at which point I hung up on him. He has not been in contact since.

Today was not a good day.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Learning to live with the betrayal because there is nothing you can do about it. It is a decision to let it go since we cannot ever repay in kind. It would not hurt them the way we have been hurt. *It would be looked at as a vicious unprovoked attack because they don't hold a grudge, in most cases. *
> 
> They cannot fully understand and that is alright. They cannot because they are not us. We are all individuals and our thinking is based upon things we've learned through life experience, our intelligence, our education and our ability to experience emotion. Emotion is governed by the release of chemicals in differing amounts in each one of us that are triggered by personal experience. There is no way one person can ever know what another is feeling, in reality.
> 
> ...


Interesting post but I disagree it is certainly not an unprovoked attack...


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Well, we just had an interesting text convo.

Apparently it's not helpful to keep going over it. I have to try to help myself as well, but I have to work that out myself as he doesn't know what will help me.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

His blame shifting is not worthy of forgiveness and he is not demonstrating remorse. You deserve better.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

As we all know, learning to forgive is very difficult. But if we don't, it will just eat us alive. It robs us our peace and happiness. I found this article for you from a website. This website has lots of information about forgiveness. 


How to Forgive

THE CHALLENGE

When you and your spouse argue, you often bring up the past, rehashing a list of old grievances that should have been settled long ago. The problem? One or both of you may not know how to forgive.


You can learn. First, though, consider why a husband and wife may find it so difficult to forgive each other.

WHY IT HAPPENS

Power. Some husbands and wives withhold forgiveness to maintain a sort of power over their spouse. Then, when a conflict arises, they use a past event as a trump card to gain the upper hand.

Resentment. The scars of a past offense can take a long time to heal. A spouse might say ‘I forgive you’ but still harbor resentment for what happened—perhaps craving to get even.

Disappointment. Some people enter marriage fully believing that life will be like a fairy-tale romance. So when a disagreement arises, they dig in their heels, wondering just how their “perfect match” could possibly see things from a different point of view. Unrealistic expectations can make a person more prone to find fault and less inclined to forgive.

Misunderstanding. Many spouses withhold forgiveness because they misunderstand what extending it will mean. For example:

If I forgive, I am minimizing the wrong.

If I forgive, I have to forget what happened.

If I forgive, I am inviting further mistreatment.

Really, forgiving does not imply any of the foregoing. Still, extending forgiveness can be difficult—especially in the close relationship between husband and wife.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

Understand what forgiveness involves. In the Bible, at times the word “forgive” means “let go.” So forgiveness does not always require that you forget what happened or minimize the wrong. Sometimes it means that you simply need to let go of a matter, for your own well-being and that of your marriage.

Recognize the consequences of not forgiving. Some experts say that holding on to resentment can put you at greater risk for a wide range of physical and emotional problems, including depression and high blood pressure—not to mention the damage it does to your marriage. For good reason, the Bible says: “Become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another.”—Ephesians 4:32.

Recognize the benefits of forgiving. A spirit of forgiveness allows you and your mate to give each other the benefit of the doubt rather than to “keep score” of wrongs. That, in turn, helps you to create an environment that keeps resentment in check and allows love to grow.—Bible principle: Colossians 3:13.

Be realistic. It is easier to be forgiving when you accept your spouse for who he or she is, flaws and all. “When you focus on what you didn’t get, it’s too easy to forget all of what you did get,” says the book Fighting for Your Marriage. “Which list do you want to dwell on at this point in life?” Remember, no one is perfect—including you.—Bible principle: James 3:2.

Be reasonable. The next time you are offended by something that your spouse said or did, ask yourself: ‘Is the situation really that important? Do I need to demand an apology, or can I just overlook what happened and move on?’—Bible principle: 1 Peter 4:8.

If necessary, discuss the matter. Calmly explain what offended you and why it made you feel that way. Do not impute bad motives or make dogmatic statements, since these will only put your spouse on the defensive. Instead, simply relate how your spouse’s actions affected you.


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

When you forgive someone I feel you finialy have peace within yourself over what the other person has done. Now some can do this quickly some take longer. Some may never. Once you do forgive someone the wieght is lifted off you. Now you can forgive someone and never tell them also.

But do remember the pain that person has gave you is like a scar you get from surgery. It will always be there to remind you and this I think what some people can not forgive. But I look at it as life. No one on this planet will have a easy life. 

If you are a religious person remember God forgives you for all your sins if you repent.


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