# Help - Lethargic Wife



## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

Hi All,

I really need to spill my guts, so I've registered on here, and apologies that I've off-loaded on everyone with my first post but I thought I might be able to get a different angle on my marriage and I hope some of you can help.

I have an issue with my marriage so I suppose that means I have an issue with my wife, unless it's my issue. Often only one side of the story is explained, things get distorted, and advice can be given without all of the information. I shall try as hard as I can to give a candid assessment of the situation without "tunnel vision". I want unbiased advice, so I'm not here to confirm that "I'm right", I'm here to see if there are other angles to look at this.

My wife and I have been married for nearly 10 years, both now in our early thirties, and we have two fantastic children, a 6 year old boy and a 1 year old girl. I am the Chief Executive Officer of a large company and my wife works part-time, 30 hours a week as a Registered Nurse. 

I have made many changes in my life. I was a meth junkie 12 years ago but I got clean, got a good attitude, got a job, got married, got an education (whilst working) and worked my way up to my current job. I am driven, motivated, positive and ambitious. My wife is kind, sweet, outgoing and physically attractive. However she frustrates the heck out of me. 

The best way I can think to describe her, in our relationship and around the house, is that she's like a blob. She just blobs around not thinking in front of herself, using any initiative or being proactive about anything unless it's something to do with friends, her family, organising a social event, or recording television programs in advance.

My emotional needs are very rarely attended to (I can't really remember when they have been). I often feel like she doesn't love me because she just doesn't have the initiative to pick up on emotional queues, or the insight to do anything about it or offer support. Even if I say it straight out she has no clue what to do, and no empathy whatsoever. I have resolved to myself that I need to do things without her emotional support because I am never going to get it. I have often wondered if I'm being too needy. For example, is it needy to crave support when you’re dealing with the odd (maybe every 3-6 months) extremely stressful work situation?

The housework is usually in a state of being half done, and at times gets out of control. This is an improvement from when we first got married because it was always out of control then. She literally cannot pickup after herself and leaves a trail of mess behind her. It doesn't matter what I say or try she just can't pick up after herself. She has a very unusual resistance to cleaning and has done her whole life, she literally gets pissed off and frustrated if she "has to" clean. She hates cleaning with a vengeance and thinks that it's taking away from "something else", which is whatever thing she wants to do instead. This has been a constant battle since we have been married, is almost un-discussable and leads to a blow-up every time it's mentioned, guaranteed. The issue is beyond "who does what" because I don't think we could sit down and discuss it. I really don't mind cleaning, but I cannot stand my wife not cleaning. I do wonder if my expectations of "clean" are too high. I like everything to have a spot, and things to be put back in their spot. That means there is no mess left lying around and everything is put away, but I don't expect the house to be cleaned with a toothbrush. I don't particularly care if it doesn't get mopped, vacuumed, or wiped down for extended periods.

She doesn't organise. I have to make sure things get done, otherwise they won't get done or will get done urgently at the last minute, or when it's too late. I feel like I'm responsible to organise everything. Maybe I'm too anal about organisation. Can things just be left until they land on our lap? She does organise our children's childcare and medical care though which is good, even though child care bills are always behind.

She doesn't have many opinions of her own, is a sheep, and can't make her own decisions. I have to lead her, "drag" her along and make all of her decisions for her. If I don't do it, she will just call someone, ask for their advice and do whatever they say. This part of the marriage actually isn't too bad for me, but I don't think its right for her. I literally do what I want, because I make all of the decisions. If I want something, I buy it. If I want to go to X for a holiday, that's where we go. The biggest issue with this is that she has done this her whole life (her dad and sisters told her what to do) and hence hasn't learned how to make her own decisions. It would be damn-well scary to let her choose the holiday destination because she hasn't learned decision making skills (and she's too lethargic to research very well). This also makes our relationship dull because I’m a “thinker” but I can’t have an intellectually stimulating conversation with my wife because she doesn’t really have any opinions to discuss.

She doesn't "keep" herself. I mean she doesn't brush her teeth or sometimes shower daily, and is lazy about her personal hygiene and dress. Even when she's like that she's a 6/10, and she's a 10/10 when she does herself up occasionally. Albeit with her clothes on because two babies have let a couple of things go! but honestly, I don't know if I should kiss her or not half the time, or have sex.

On the sex front - I'm probably not a typical man and don't particularly need to have sex all the time, so I'm complaining about the quantity (although once a fortnight is probably a bit lean). She is passive in bed and never takes control. I can't remember one time where she has taken control. If we went to bed to have sex, and I just laid there and waited, nothing would happen, we would both just be laying there.

I get pretty stressed about her passive and lazy approach to everything. Honestly, I have a job that has many pressures, and I can deal with that, but home is where most of my stress comes from. If it wasn't for my children I'd spend 14 hours a day at work to avoid the stress of having to come home to a lethargic relationship and a lethargic house where I have to take control to make anything happen. 

I have tried every approach under the sun;


If I don't do anything, then nothing happens and she's fine like that. She will happily live in a mess, literally and figuratively.
I can’t discuss anything that might encroach on her state of blob, she just resists, gets defensive, we have an argument and we brush it under the carpet until next time. 
I occasionally get angry but I don't like to do it, and I think it's weak to deal with issues that way. I used to have an anger problem which I have dealt with.
I love her and I feel like I need her. It's like I crave what she can't give me and I always look for it in her. But if I look at it logically, she doesn't provide any of my needs so it literally wouldn't make any difference if she was a brick. I'm a believer in people, and I believe anyone can do anything if they want to, and I believe in her. 

I don't really know what to do, perhaps it's my problem and I just need to accept her like that? I thought about being a stay at home dad. That would fix everything; I'd do all of the housework, pick up after her, organise everything and attend to her emotional needs etc., and she could work. But obviously I'm the major money maker and I love my job and my career so I can’t do that.

Any help or different ways to look at this would be great.


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## OliveAdventure (Nov 23, 2011)

First of all, congrats on becoming sober. That takes great strength and I admire that.

When it comes to helping your wife, does she have a means to stay organized? A mom calendar, or a calendar that can send reminders? I know blackberry and iPhone both have services like this. 

Cleaning - Not much that can be done with this one I dont think.. House maintenance is shared - I'm sure you do more of your fair share, but you can't make her do it. I would suggest a cleaning person come once a week - Ask if she can pay 1/2 of the bill? it's not that expensive, maybe it would motivate her to not want to spend that money on something she can help with herself?

Sex - Have you tried marriage counselling? 

I'm sorry I can't help much. I do really appplaud your ability to come forward so honestly. I think you will find the advice here very helpful


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

It sounds like you are a very motivated individual. It sounds like she isn't motivated about keeping up the home or marriage, unfortunately. It may be that you two have grown in different directions or were never really that compatible to begin with.

That said, I agree with Olive that a cleaning lady might help. I couldn't live in a mess either, and people who can drive me crazy, so I definitely understand. Maybe hiring someone to come in weekly would help.

A person who can't make decisions would also drive me crazy. Unfortunately, she might not be able to do that ever. Have you talked to her about this and encouraged her to make decisions on her own? What about telling her she HAS to make a decision, maybe on something smaller in scale and then insist she follow through with it. 

As far as the marriage, you may need marriage counseling. She may be resistant to that, though. You need to decide if these issues are serious enough for you to insist upon marriage counseling.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

She was able to get through a nursing program and pass the state boards. She does not lack intelligence. She functions as a nurse, she makes decisions or she would be fired. Something does not compute. Is she lathargic at home and a dynamo in her career? 

Depression maybe? You married 10 years ago and I assume you knew her longer. That puts your relationship beginnings when you were an addict or in the early stages of recovery? How did you meet? Seems she made a risky decision to enter a relationship with you. You were a substance abuser she could not have predicted you phenomenal success. She took a big chance there. Did she participate in your recovery? Was she also addicted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I would love to hear your wife's side of this. How she views things. 

She works 3/4 time in a high pressure field and I presumes takes care of your children when she is not working. It sounds like she does some things around the house.

In a marriage, especially these days, there are no set rules about whose role is what. She is no more responsible for house work, house organization, etc than you are. The way to make this part of the relationship work is for each of you to do what you are best at. If you are the organizer than you are in charge of organizing. If she is better with social events, perhaps the children, etc. Then she gets that.

As for the housework itself, both of you work. Hire someone to clean the house. My opinion of housework is that I would rather work a job and pay someone to do the work. I have 6 figures a year. Every hour I spend on house work is time I cannot work or cannot enjoy my family. I'm sure that both you and your wife earn more than a cleaning person would... $10-$12 an hour compared to how much that you both earn per hour?

On her making decisions.. As was pointed out by someone else, of course she can make decisions... she has to at work. Perhaps she's good at picking what is important to her and what is not. Maybe the decisions she leaves up to you are not all that important to her. Be flattered, she trusts your opinion and choices.

As a side note, is there a chance that your wife is depressed or has ADD/HD? Often when a person cannot organize in their lives this is the reason. My mother was like that. She was never treated for it. But it's clear that she had such issues. Even as children we learned to do the organizing for her. It's like she would walk into a room and it would explode into chaos... and when she left the room... there were books, magazines, art supplies, etc all over the place. It was a blast when we were young because she would always incredibly fascinating things for us to do. But my father usually hired a live-in house keeper to pick up after it all.

One thing about marriage is that such things will drive us mad until the day we decide to embrace even the eccentric parts of or mates. Perhaps we should love them, not only despite their quirks but because of them.

Somehow I think that your presentation of your wife here is accurate... but only to a point. The rest is judgmental. You present yourself as highly successful, organized, in complete control... as opposed to … well HER.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Valdius,
Why not hire a cleaning lady? As CEO of a large company I assume you can afford one, why not have someone in twice/three times a week to clean? 

And why not make a plan for the rest of it? If she doesn't like to plan, you cannot make her. But I bet she would support (within reason) your plans for vacations, time together etc. 

How would she/does she respond when you say: "I want to go to XYZ restaurant, and I would love it if you would fix your hair the way you did when we went out to ... and maybe even wear either the red dress you wore to ... or the black dress you wore to ....

And that can include making time to work out together which might generally improve her affect. But it has to be that you want to be "together" as opposed to you want her to come so she gets some exercise. 

One last thing. A woman cannot really love a man she doesn't respect. A man however, CAN love a woman and not respect her. Your post screams that you don't respect who she is. I would be surprised if that is not very obvious (and demoralizing) to her. 




Validus said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I really need to spill my guts, so I've registered on here, and apologies that I've off-loaded on everyone with my first post but I thought I might be able to get a different angle on my marriage and I hope some of you can help.
> 
> ...


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I was wondering the exact same thing as Catherine.

Nursing school is hard. And depending on where she's working, being a nurse can be very stressful and demanding.

Are you sure she is not depressed? Or maybe feels the same about her home life that you are starting to feel now?

It sounds like you both need to have a heart to heart to find out the real issue here, and deal with it together without yelling or accusing each other.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You can hire someone to come in and clean, but you can't hire someone to brush her teeth!


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

OliveAdventure said:


> First of all, congrats on becoming sober. That takes great strength and I admire that.


Thanks, I don't where I'd be now if I didn't, probably dead I think.



> When it comes to helping your wife, does she have a means to stay organized? A mom calendar, or a calendar that can send reminders? I know blackberry and iPhone both have services like this.


Yeah we have a calendar on the wall which is just for showing major things, like when her shifts occur, my late night meetings, and major events. She has an iPhone but it's difficult for someone to use something like that for organisation if they are not motivated or proactive. I use one all of the time but I'm proactive in putting events in my calendar/task list, and motivated to complete them.



> Cleaning - Not much that can be done with this one I dont think.. House maintenance is shared - I'm sure you do more of your fair share, but you can't make her do it. I would suggest a cleaning person come once a week - Ask if she can pay 1/2 of the bill? it's not that expensive, maybe it would motivate her to not want to spend that money on something she can help with herself?


Yes, I think we need a cleaner. I suggested this when she first started work but she resists because it costs too much money. I think I need to push it again. We don't have separate money, it's all in one and we are not short but she doesn't like spending it.



> Sex - Have you tried marriage counselling?


We haven't but I think we also need to do this.



> I'm sorry I can't help much. I do really applaud your ability to come forward so honestly. I think you will find the advice here very helpful


Thanks for the help


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> It sounds like you are a very motivated individual. It sounds like she isn't motivated about keeping up the home or marriage, unfortunately. It may be that you two have grown in different directions or were never really that compatible to begin with.


I don't think I've always been very motivated, I certainly wasn't productive in my teenage years. I have grown tremendously as a person, and I would say I've grown up and taken responsibility for my own issues and my own life. My life is what I make it, it's no one else fault if it's crap, which is also why I'm trying not to blame my wife here.

Is there such a thing as true compatibility, where nothing about the other person is frustrating? Genuine question. I wonder if there is such a thing.



> A person who can't make decisions would also drive me crazy. Unfortunately, she might not be able to do that ever. Have you talked to her about this and encouraged her to make decisions on her own? What about telling her she HAS to make a decision, maybe on something smaller in scale and then insist she follow through with it.


Thanks for that, I will do this. I think you're right, if we do it in baby steps she might slowly learn how to make good decisions.


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> She was able to get through a nursing program and pass the state boards. She does not lack intelligence. She functions as a nurse, she makes decisions or she would be fired. Something does not compute. Is she lathargic at home and a dynamo in her career?


About 4 years ago she was in a "hole" and didn't know what to do with herself (career wise). I said to her, tell me what you would do if there were no obstacles, nothing stopping you, and no fears. She said she would like to work with babies, and we nutted it out that she wanted to be a midwife. So then I said, quit your work and go to University, and she thought she couldn't do it. I encouraged her to just start and see how she went, I believed in her, she started her Bachelors in Nursing and didn't look back. She's now an RN and will be a midwife next year. She's by no means dumb, she received mostly Distinctions and High Distinctions, she is just unmotivated around the house and I suppose with our relationship. Maybe I'm as boring as bat**** or something, maybe I should dye my hair purple.



> Depression maybe? You married 10 years ago and I assume you knew her longer. That puts your relationship beginnings when you were an addict or in the early stages of recovery? How did you meet? Seems she made a risky decision to enter a relationship with you. You were a substance abuser she could not have predicted you phenomenal success. She took a big chance there. Did she participate in your recovery? Was she also addicted.


She met me when I was recovering, I even had a couple of relapses that she didn't know about until later on. She knew I had been a drug addict, and yeah I was a bit of a thug when she met me. She liked "bad boys" I think, she was probably a bit immature and so was I, you know late teens.


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I would love to hear your wife's side of this. How she views things.


I wonder if I asked her to look at this thread what she would do. I'll think about that, it might hurt her.



> She works 3/4 time in a high pressure field and I presumes takes care of your children when she is not working. It sounds like she does some things around the house.
> 
> In a marriage, especially these days, there are no set rules about whose role is what. She is no more responsible for house work, house organization, etc than you are.


I 100% agree, I'm happy to do it, I'm just not happy for her not to do it. Also, when I do it, I'm picking up her trail of destruction.



> The way to make this part of the relationship work is for each of you to do what you are best at. If you are the organizer than you are in charge of organizing. If she is better with social events, perhaps the children, etc. Then she gets that.


The problem with that is that I don't want to organise (Australian spelling) everything. It's a big responsibility to do that, and I'm pretty much doing that now which is part of the problem.



> As for the housework itself, both of you work. Hire someone to clean the house. My opinion of housework is that I would rather work a job and pay someone to do the work. I have 6 figures a year. Every hour I spend on house work is time I cannot work or cannot enjoy my family. I'm sure that both you and your wife earn more than a cleaning person would... $10-$12 an hour compared to how much that you both earn per hour?


Yes, I will try this again and see how we go.



> On her making decisions.. As was pointed out by someone else, of course she can make decisions... she has to at work. Perhaps she's good at picking what is important to her and what is not. Maybe the decisions she leaves up to you are not all that important to her. Be flattered, she trusts your opinion and choices.


They probably aren't important to her, but they should be important to any responsible adult, she's not a teenager anymore. Why should they land on my lap? and is it healthy for her to just avoid them?



> As a side note, is there a chance that your wife is depressed or has ADD/HD? Often when a person cannot organize in their lives this is the reason. My mother was like that. She was never treated for it. But it's clear that she had such issues. Even as children we learned to do the organizing for her. It's like she would walk into a room and it would explode into chaos... and when she left the room... there were books, magazines, art supplies, etc all over the place. It was a blast when we were young because she would always incredibly fascinating things for us to do. But my father usually hired a live-in house keeper to pick up after it all.


I don't know enough about ADD/HD but she sounds just like your mother. I'm sure she was depressed 24 months ago but she has picked up again. She may well be depressed in some form though.



> One thing about marriage is that such things will drive us mad until the day we decide to embrace even the eccentric parts of or mates. Perhaps we should love them, not only despite their quirks but because of them.


You believe in unconditional love?



> Somehow I think that your presentation of your wife here is accurate... but only to a point. The rest is judgmental. You present yourself as highly successful, organized, in complete control... as opposed to … well HER.


I presented my frustrations, but I don't think they were exaggerated, and it's a bit hard to describe frustrations about another party without being judgmental. Am I judging her for being lethargic or am I just saying how she is? it's semantics.


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> A woman cannot really love a man she doesn't respect. A man however, CAN love a woman and not respect her. Your post screams that you don't respect who she is. I would be surprised if that is not very obvious (and demoralizing) to her.


I don't think I disrespect my wife, I try to treat her like a princess. The big question here is; Is this just how my wife is, and I should put up with it, or should I push for some kind of change?

Should a person just be able to go through life with other people picking up after them and making all of their decisions for them? Sounds bloody good to me.


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

Lydia said:


> Nursing school is hard. And depending on where she's working, being a nurse can be very stressful and demanding.


I asked her this last night after I read your post, and yes, her job is stressful. 



> Are you sure she is not depressed? Or maybe feels the same about her home life that you are starting to feel now?


I'm not sure if she's depressed, she might be. She might feel crap about our home-life. Maybe I've been on her back about picking up after herself for so long that she's down about it, pissed off about it, or some combination. Maybe I'm not the person she fell in love with because I've changed. 



> It sounds like you both need to have a heart to heart to find out the real issue here, and deal with it together without yelling or accusing each other.


Sounds good, I will try that and also try to see a marriage counselor.


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## Validus (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, everyone.


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