# H wants relationship with OC, willing to break up marriage



## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

New here. My marriage is hanging on by the tiniest thread and I need help.

I have been married 22 years to my college sweetheart and we have an only child who is 13 now. Two and a half years ago, he had an affair with a coworker who was divorced and had an infant son at the time. He admitted the affair was entirely his fault, his wanting something and feeling he was entitled to it because he worked hard (extremely high stress job), she was attractive, she pursued him, he yielded, he felt like crap but the affair took on a life of its own. She was supposed to be using BC but she got pregnant (I believe intentionally). He pressured her to abort, really BAD pressure he says, but she said she wanted the baby. He told her that he wouldn't leave me, and she moved out of state pg because she hated her ex-H and wanted to get away from him (she had been planning that for a while). He told me about the affair and pregnancy and of course I was devastated but I didn't leave. After paternity tests proved the child was his, we got a family lawyer and set up child support and a custodial agreement which gave him no rights...he agreed to "visitation as agreed upon by both parents, with mother having 100% custody." She had PLEADED with him for that agreement because she was sick of her ex-H and his visitation. 

We decided on NC with his other child, which shocked me because I didn't think he could do it, but he thought he could. We went to MC, and I was able to forgive him for the infidelity. I thought we were doing well but actually he was suppressing a huge need to be in his OC's life. He contacted the OW and she said that if he did come to see his OC, I was not welcome. He sneaked in a trip to see them at the end of a business trip so I wouldn't find out. After I did find out about the secret trip, he admitted he didn't think he could cut the OC out of his life. I told him, I am not asking you to cut out your child, I am just asking that you don't go there without me because I can't trust you around her in another city, by yourselves. He told me that she was angry with him at the secret trip. She said that he could not just "breeze into his child's life occasionally", that he needed to come every other weekend like a non-custodial parent should, or she would grant him NOTHING (she wouldn't even allow him to send presents at Christmas or to talk to his OC on the phone). I have begged him to take her back to court to rewrite the visitation agreement so he would have some rights, but he won't do it because he feels so guilty about everything (the pressure to abort, the leaving her pg and alone) and that full custody and control is what she wanted more than anything in the world. He "owes her that," he says. I can't convince him otherwise.

So here we are. He is guilty, sad, confused. The holidays were hell for him, thinking of the little OC. He says that he can't go for 18 years without contact. I suggested he start going there with his mother (like a chaperone and also to build the grandmother relationship), but he says he doesn't think that would work either, because he knows the emotional burden his visits would be on me. He says he would feel like crap, coming home to me with stories of the mistress and OC. He thinks that I would always be jealous, always feel stressed out by it. I honestly pity the OC...I know the OC is totally innocent and deserves a dad. But HE thinks I would always resent my H for being away from us, like he is still having the affair, because he is giving them all that time. I guess I don't know how I would feel unless it happened, although I would still like him to be coming home to us (as long as he doesn't go there alone…that would be a deal breaker). He thinks the only way to have a relationship with the OC is to end our marriage. Then he would be free to move about with each of his children and be a dad to both, without worrying about what I was thinking, without worrying about doing everything the way I would want it.

Through all of this, he says he loves me and doesn't want to throw away our marriage of 22 years. He loves our daughter so much and he doesn't want to hurt her. It's just that he craves his OC so much. He doesn't know what he is going to do. He says if he could clone himself to be raising each of his kids, he would. He says he needs time to decide. He is not ready to contact the OW to initiate C, but he can't go on for 18 years with NC. So I am in limbo, waiting for him to decide what to do. 

We have both individual and marriage counseling with a great therapist. She says, the ball is in my court to stay or leave, but if I don't want divorce, at least he is here NOW, he is with us NOW, that he refuses to take action to see the OW and OC now, so I just have to ask myself, can I live like this. Can I wait for him to decide what he wants. Our therapist says she believes he will never initiate C. He is tortured, but the distance and the OW's crazy expectations (who can really fly or drive that far twice a month for 18 years?!) will prevent him from initiating C. She also says that time does heal wounds and that letting go of a biological child requires time to grieve.

Right now, my darling daughter still has an intact home and I don't want that to change. I don't want a divorce. Other than this, our marriage and home life is good. We don't fight, he is a good provider and father…probably the reason he feels so terrible that he has neglected being a father to his OC. 

Is there hope through all of this? Am I crazy for not asking for a divorce? Is there anything I should be doing besides praying and waiting while he "grieves" or "decides"?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

If he went to court and got partial custody, or even visitation, I don't think the other woman could dictate who he brings around the child, as long as they are not a threat - like his mother, father, you, your daughter. But that is something you will not know until you see an attorney and find out about your situation in your jurisdiction.

If he wants to be in the child's life, which I think is only fair to him and especially to the child, he should see an attorney to find out what his rights are and what can be done for him re: the other child. If he just does it ad hoc, as he his doing it now, he - and you - will forever be at the mercy of the whims of the other woman.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Go visit lawyer and see how to fix visitation. By forcing the issue, the other woman may mess around and have visitation she does not like. Get that fixed and then see how you feel. He did something complete stupid, but he is right in fearing your resentment. 

Just like you are right in demanding a chaperone.
Just like the other woman is right in not wanting you near her or the child during visits to her home.


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## Loveisnotenough (Jan 10, 2014)




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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Seems like you rugged swept this, the asking or wanting him to agree to no contact with the child seems unrealistic and unfair to the child. I do understand your feelings and it must be horrible for you. But, part of reconciliation is accepting the fact that he screwed up and that things will never go back to how they come were. Your daughter if she doesn't know, should know and meet her sibling. You are going to have to also know him and include him in your life, it's not the child fault, it's your husbands. I'd suggest looking for a different MC if this person led you to believe you can just live as if this never happened. You can find peace and happiness if you face the situation as it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

He made a huge mistake and there are many victims of his stupidity.

You are letting him off the hook lightly. He broke NC, so he lied again. It doesn't matter what the reason. 

He sounds like a weak man and a poor role model honestly. No matter what he chooses (and his choices have been [email protected] so far) he's going to leave human wreckage. Have you thought about the day your daughter finds out she has a half sibling? So she'll be dealing with the knowledge of his affair plus a great example of how to deal with the life altering consequences.


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

I want him to have a relationship with the OC. In fact, I want to come clean with everyone (his parents, our child, etc, as nobody knows right now) and have a stepfamily type relationship with the OC. I even told him that we should bring the OC to our hometown for a few weeks each summer so the OC could really get to know us. I told him, I was already prepared to tell our neighbors and friends, it's my "bonus child." I know the child is innocent and I want my child to know her sibling. It breaks my heart that my mother in law (sweetest woman ever) doesn't know she has this grandchild.

I have told him, we have to take the OW to court. The court will allow visitation with more reasonable terms and protect your rights. He says, he will NOT take her to court. He knows it is the right thing to do for the child, but he will not put the OW through that. He said, all she ever asked for was total custody with his visitation as she permitted, and that is what he agreed to, and he will not reverse that.

Through all of our conversations, it seems that during the affair he promised her the moon and the stars, and when she told him about the pregnancy, he dropped her like a hotcake. He feels guilty about that. He says that she is a single mom to his offspring, that he needs to be kind and gentle with her because she is the only one looking out for his child. 

He SAYS he would rather have NC or a divorce with me than take her to court to push for visitation.

So here we are. Him undecided what to do, pining for a relationship but unable to initiate the phone call to ask for it, unable to decide how he will do it, unable to break up our marriage, unable to upset his former mistress.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You don't have to lie for him. This affects a lot of people, including your daughter. You are now complicit in his lies.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I also worry as Kristen pointed out he lied to you again, that's not a good sign. I am sorry you are picking up the pieces. He is the one that needs to tell people about his son, not you. The only one that should be calling the shots is you, a cheater that is grateful that you didn't leave would not be giving you the two options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It sounds like you made a deal with the devil to keep your marriage intact for your daughter, but when the lies are revealed, and they will be, you all will be worse off for it. Your husband is embarrassed and ashamed to tell his friends and family what he's done. I bet he won't want to tell his son about you and your daughter, either, when his son is old enough. What he would like is to have two separate lives and keep his reputation intact.

Don't lie for him. In the end, it will make you look as dishonest as him. All you are doing is putting off the inevitable. It will be painful for all of you NOW, but it will be much worse if you put it off. The longer you put it off, the worse it gets.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Needpeacenow said:


> I want him to have a relationship with the OC. In fact, I want to come clean with everyone (his parents, our child, etc, as nobody knows right now) and have a stepfamily type relationship with the OC. I even told him that we should bring the OC to our hometown for a few weeks each summer so the OC could really get to know us. I told him, I was already prepared to tell our neighbors and friends, it's my "bonus child." I know the child is innocent and I want my child to know her sibling. It breaks my heart that my mother in law (sweetest woman ever) doesn't know she has this grandchild.
> 
> I have told him, we have to take the OW to court. The court will allow visitation with more reasonable terms and protect your rights. He says, he will NOT take her to court. He knows it is the right thing to do for the child, but he will not put the OW through that. He said, all she ever asked for was total custody with his visitation as she permitted, and that is what he agreed to, and he will not reverse that.
> 
> ...



A few weeks each summer? Do you read your own words? 

How is that a relationship? If he leaves you and your daughter would you be happy if he saw her a few weeks in the summer? 

I spent every summer in camp in another country. The whole summer. I don't really remember the names of any people there.

As I got older, I didn't want to leave my life and my friends for the summer. So I pitched a fit and flat out refused to go. End of summer camp.

There will come a day when the OW (bonus baby mama) finds a new man AKA step daddy...new drama and I'm betting another struggle for your WH. 

The OW might one day tell the child her father begged and pleaded for her to abort. This is a hot mess with no good answers for anyone. Sounds like you haven't gotten the truth from him at all. He's still on the fence and it isn't because he loves you I suspect.

Sorry if you want kid glove treatment I'll bow out. This is one of those threads I hope are fake. Just sad.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

"He SAYS he would rather have NC or a divorce with me than take her to court to push for visitation."

I wonder if he has something to hide here, seems very drastic and unfair to you. He knows you won't leave him and he's manipulating you. 

As soon as he sees you are not afraid to lose him, he will change is tune.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

mablenc said:


> "He SAYS he would rather have NC or a divorce with me than take her to court to push for visitation."
> 
> I wonder if he has something to hide here, seems very drastic and unfair to you. He knows you won't leave him and he's manipulating you.
> 
> ...



Spot on! Just thinking exactly that also.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

He "felt entitled" to his affair because his AP was attractive and he worked hard. He had unprotected sex with her. He let himself go inside her. He got her pregnant. He went to see her and the child behind your back.

His life is a total mess, but yours doesn't have to be. Your husband got what he deserved. You don't have to share his fate.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> He "felt entitled" to his affair because his AP was attractive and he worked hard. He had unprotected sex with her. He let himself go inside her. He got her pregnant. He went to see her and the child behind your back.
> 
> His life is a total mess, but yours doesn't have to be. Your husband got what he deserved. You don't have to share his fate.


Exactly he was willing to gamble away what he had. He now wants everyone to live with his supreme idiocy. The child and woman he "chooses" are going to be worse for it. Just my .02


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> He "owes her that," he says.


Gosh. That's nice of him. What, exactly, does he think he owes you?

For example, how can he make up to you the risk he put you under of contracting an STD or HIV?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

If I got another woman pregnant and my wife took me back, I would assume there was nothing she wouldn't forgive, and so I would just continue to do whatever I wanted. This is exactly what he is going to do.


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow, no one suggests that I try to make this work. Honestly, my daughter is my whole world and I would do anything to protect her. I have thought of telling her, but the idea that her home could break up anytime is stressful. And since the OW won't allow access, she won't be able to meet her half-sibling. Plus there is the issue of needing to fly or drive out of state. I don't want to tell her unless it's because we are initiating divorce or because her dad and grandma will be starting visits out there.

So, my H continues the MC and IC. He says he doesn't know what he is going to do because he wants the relationship, but he doesn't know how to make it work. Everyone thinks I should just leave first? Break up this marriage where we love each other? I don't even know if he moved out, whether he would start a contact relationship with the OC/OW. They are so far away. He said he will never leave his current job (loves his job, job of a lifetime) and she doesn't want to live here because she fled here to get away from a crazy ex-H.

If I leave, it would be for pride. Is that a good enough reason to take your child away from her father?

The way I see it, OC has 0% and my child has 100%. If he left, each would have 20% or so. Should I leave so that can happen? Do I owe that to the OC?

As for those who think he will repeat the adultery, he said to me, he got burned so bad by this (the universe will punish him type feelings), he would never be able to cheat again. I know him. I believe him. He's a bit superstitious and believes in karma.


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

MattMatt, when I first found out about affair and pregnancy, I got so mad because of the chance of an STD. He said he actually was worried about STD but she had only just delivered her ex-husband's baby a few months prior and had been STD tested in prenatal care and had been celibate since.

So he was aware of risk but took her word for it, she was clean. He promised he was ok and I was ok. I went and got tested anyway. We're good.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

What everyone is saying is that he doesn't seem to be putting as much effort as your are. He lied to you again and went behind your back. He's also putting her before you by forcing you to pick his way or divorce. 

Please read this, especially the false reconciliation part. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

"he way I see it, OC has 0% and my child has 100%. If he left, each would have 20% or so. Should I leave so that can happen? Do I owe that to the OC?"

Again, it seems like you want to live like this never happened, the OC should not be getting 0. Regardless of what you decide to do with your husband. He's there, it happened, he's a victim just like you and your daughter. How would you feel of someone was doing the same to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Needpeacenow said:


> Wow, no one suggests that I try to make this work. Honestly, my daughter is my whole world and I would do anything to protect her. I have thought of telling her, but the idea that her home could break up anytime is stressful. And since the OW won't allow access, she won't be able to meet her half-sibling. Plus there is the issue of needing to fly or drive out of state. I don't want to tell her unless it's because we are initiating divorce or because her dad and grandma will be starting visits out there.
> 
> So, my H continues the MC and IC. He says he doesn't know what he is going to do because he wants the relationship, but he doesn't know how to make it work. Everyone thinks I should just leave first? Break up this marriage where we love each other? I don't even know if he moved out, whether he would start a contact relationship with the OC/OW. They are so far away. He said he will never leave his current job (loves his job, job of a lifetime) and she doesn't want to live here because she fled here to get away from a crazy ex-H.
> 
> ...


:wtf:

He believes in karma? Um, since when? Is he frozen unable to cross the street because he's waiting for the karma bus to run him over for what he's done so far?

As for him saying "never" to anything. Please read your words again. Good luck working this out. He stepped in a big steaming pile on purpose. Now he's tracking it all over you, your kid, his [email protected] 

Sorry I don't see you holding hands in rockers watching the sun go down. He bet against the house, your house your family.

Do you think him a fool for believing his lover? You sound just as deluded for believing him. The odds are so stacked against you. It would take a miracle if your marriage made it.

Sorry I can't be more positive. There isn't one thing to work off of. Other than you can and should take your daughter and run from this entitled poor excuse for a man, husband and father.

I wish you well. You are going to need more than love to sort this out, the patience and understanding of a Saint would be tried here.


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## LoveNpieces (Jan 8, 2014)

I am very sorry for what has happened to you. I am going through my own situation right now with my husband as well. My husband said we couldn't be together while he has feelings for another woman (my story is in thread Painfully broken)
Your husband seems like a manipulator like mine is doing to me now.
Instead of worrying about us their wives, they are more concerned with giving credence to these other women and their relations and in your case now child.
While yes what he did is deplorable as well as what my husband has done what makes it worse is that they are treating US their wives as disposable. 

There are many ways he can find resolution in giving you what you need, having visits with his son and make all right as best he can. Woman to woman, there is a very big reason why he wont go back to court with her. Perhaps he is telling her one thing and you another. His actions are telling another story. Mine would tell me one thing and was telling her another which is why i say the same to you. 

If you want the best for your daughter clearly what your husband is asking is not the best for you or your child. He is thinking only of what is best for himself!
Just as mine is.

He needs to see the child yes, have relations with child yes, end marriage not by any means. I feel he is not being truthful in his motives by any means. He is so overly concerned with this new child, that he is clearly putting you and your daughter on the back burner..

I am not saying if you love him to not find a way to make it work if you feel in your heart its what you need to do. All i am saying is he is the one who has made all of your lives a mess because of his selfishness and he is continuing to be selfish.

My problem with this is why is he giving this mistress so much power and priority..you are his wife and the only one he should be concerned about is you and your daughter and what you need from him in this mess...


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Why do you feel the need to go with him when he goes to see the OC and his ex-mistress.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Do you really think your daughter won't find out, she will and it may be much worse because you and H hid it from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't even know how your husband even thinks it's appropriate to visit his affair partner and the OC alone. Does he realize that the OW is trying to isolate him? Or maybe that's what he wants.

Who all knows about the affair and the OC? Maybe it is time to expose.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your WH has been horribly selfish and has thus devastated many lives. He continues to devastate them. Although the OW should be deeply ashamed of herself, she has a point. If he pushed in a brutal way for an abortion, he hasn't earned any more rights than she is willing to grant.

The reason the people here are not offering advice on how to stay and make this work for you is that the sad experience of this place means that we know you are buying a lifetime of hurt for you and your daughter if you continue with this.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Needpeacenow said:


> I want him to have a relationship with the OC. In fact, I want to come clean with everyone (his parents, our child, etc, as nobody knows right now) and have a stepfamily type relationship with the OC. I even told him that we should bring the OC to our hometown for a few weeks each summer so the OC could really get to know us. I told him, I was already prepared to tell our neighbors and friends, it's my "bonus child." I know the child is innocent and I want my child to know her sibling. It breaks my heart that my mother in law (sweetest woman ever) doesn't know she has this grandchild.
> 
> *I have told him, we have to take the OW to court. The court will allow visitation with more reasonable terms and protect your rights. He says, he will NOT take her to court. He knows it is the right thing to do for the child, but he will not put the OW through that. He said, all she ever asked for was total custody with his visitation as she permitted, and that is what he agreed to, and he will not reverse that.*
> 
> ...


*
*


But he can make your life h*ll.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I think they have a shot to get though this, but he needs to get serious about it and stop pressuring her. She also needs to come terms with he fact that this is real and the child will be part of their lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

By the way he doesn't need to take her court, they can agree terms. A lawyer can draw up the agreement or they can go through a mediator.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think it's so odd that if he wants to be in his OC's life so badly that he he doesn't want to go to court to fight for visitation. His excuses for not doing it don't ring true. Two reasons for wanting to keep the OC and visitation secret: 

1) Exposure to friends and family of the affair and the OC makes him look like a bad guy and it's embarrassing. (Too bad, so sad.)

2) The affair is still going on and if you agree that he can go visit the child by himself then he has an excuse to go see the OW.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needpeacenow said:


> Wow, no one suggests that I try to make this work. *Honestly*, my daughter is my whole world and I would do anything to protect her. *I have thought of telling her, but the idea that her home could break up anytime is stressful.* And since the OW won't allow access, she won't be able to meet her half-sibling. Plus there is the issue of needing to fly or drive out of state. I don't want to tell her unless it's because we are initiating divorce or because her dad and grandma will be starting visits out there.
> 
> So, my H continues the MC and IC. He says he doesn't know what he is going to do because he wants the relationship, but he doesn't know how to make it work. Everyone thinks I should just leave first? *Break up this marriage* where *we love each other*? I don't even know if he moved out, whether he would start a contact relationship with the OC/OW. They are so far away. He said he will never leave his current job (loves his job, job of a lifetime) and she doesn't want to live here because she fled here to get away from a crazy ex-H.
> 
> ...


Make it work, but not based on lies. What would happen if you told your parents and his about the other woman and the other child?

What are you protecting your daughter from? A father who would leave you - AND HER - and give her only 20% - if you told people the truth? A man who doesn't love anyone - but himself - enough to do the right thing?

Is the lesson here that it is OK to lie if it is stressful?

I could be wrong, but people deserve to know the truth about their lives. How would you feel about your parents if you found this kind of thing now? Would you think better or worse of them for keeping it from you for so many years, and in fact never telling you the truth?

What will you tell your daughter when she finds out from other sources that she has a half brother? Do you think other woman will not tell her son who the father is? Do you think the other child will not search the internet for information about his father who he hardly sees? Do you think that this will stay a secret forever?

What do you envision happening in the future?

I am not saying to unilaterally tell your daughter or anyone else about the other woman and other child, but to let your husband know that you no longer intend to keep his lie. I think it hurts your daughter to do so.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Needpeacenow said:


> Wow, no one suggests that I try to make this work.


I'd say the first two posts were telling you what to do on the basis of it working.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Your husband cares more about protecting the POSOW than he cares about you. He would DIVORCE you before he purposefully made her angry. Are you f'cking kidding me? You are going to just let him dictate your life for you? He has screwed up your marriage to the point of no return and you think that's a loving marriage worth saving?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

2) The affair is still going on and if you agree that he can go visit the child by himself then he has an excuse to go see the OW.

This is what I'm thinking. Also your WH rather div you than take her to court?-(somthing don't smell about that).

If he was really sorry about what did he to you and your daughter he would do as you ask. He would also try to see the innocent child that he made with the OW.

And your daughter needs to know that she has a half-slib you don't want her dating her brother on day-(it can happen).


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## Visionknower (Oct 14, 2013)

Are you really sure you want to stay married to this person? Is this really the best choice for you and for your daughter? Really? 
Your WH violated you and your marriage. There is no doubt that his actions and behaviors have also been seriously damaging to the wellbeing and security of your family and your daughter. He knew he was potentially throwing your marriage and family under the bus for a cheap thrill and a deluded 2 1/2 year ego boost, that cost you and your family quite a lot of ridiculous pain and unnecessary suffering. It also appears that this will not be over anytime soon and it may possibility not ever be over. Are you really okay with that? 

I cannot fathom why you say your WH is a good father. A good father does not do what this man has done He is a sexually and reproductively irresponsible adulterer that thinks lying to and violating his wife and her trust in him is okay because he "deserves" it, because he works so hard. Really? He also seems to be a very confused man and possibility an very covertly emotionally manipulative man that has self-serving underlying agendas going on continuously. 

Your daughter probably sees and gets a lot more of what is really going on then you realize. Thirteen is a very impressionable time for young women. Your daughter will now have the template that "good" men and "good" fathers cheat on their wives, impregnate random women, and think it is fine and dandy to consider leaving his current wife and family so he can freely fulfill his obligation to his daughter and OC both without the stress of having to worry about if what he is doing is hurting you or causing you unbearable stress. Oh how thoughtful of him. And he has already proven to you that he is so very concerned about your and your wellbeing and that he would never knowing choose to do cruel selfish things that might hurt you or cause you undue stress or unnecessary suffering. How honorable, and How humiliating for you and how cruel and disgusting of him to act like he is doing the considerate thing for you, because he loves you and because he wants to "spare you the suffering that worrying that his his behaviors with his mistress, while he is visiting his OC, might cause for you. Surely he sees the deluded arrogance of this as he enjoys the fact that you are so dedicated to this marriage and to him that you are waiting and hoping that he picks you and your family instead of divorce and freedom. Really??? Wow! You really think this is a good situation and that your marriage and home life is good now. Really???

So now your daughter will also have you modeling to her that a good mother and an intelligent sensible women accepts this kind of abuse, marital violation and disrespect from her husband and stays in a marriage with a confused arrogant adulterer that is emotionally a pathetic mess unless that is just an act he is putting on so he has a Nobel reason to continue his sexual liaisons with this mistress under the guise of his great concern for his OC. Do you think this is a good example to set for your daughter? Do you want her to accept this kind of disregard and violation from a future partner? It is not normal or acceptable and she should know that it is not.

Also when your described that you had been in MC and you had managed to forgive him for the adultery and then you go on to describe how he then "SNEAKS in a trip to see OC". Really?- and you’re okay with his continued lying and sneaking around to do things? Was there not a clear stipulation firmly in place that he absolutely stop lying, sneaking around and being less than honest with you? Was this not a huge aspect, goal and requirement set up in MC to support healthy boundaries that are a required aspect of any healthy relationship? Are you really okay with his continued lying and sneaking? 

He said he loves you and does not want to throw away your marriage while at the very same time he is contemplating doing so for the second time and has the audacity to expect or to ask you to give him time to decide if you will be lucky enough to stay married to this man. Is this actually true? Have I read this correctly? It should be pointed out that not only has he already thrown away your marriage once when he started this affair, he also didn't think enough of you and your life then either to give you a say in the matter. He did not have the integrity to let you know of this decision that he was making to have an extra marital relationship because he felt that he deserved it. He failed to fill you in about the true state of your marriage when he was making the decision to cheat. Do you really have a voice or a say in this whole arrangement of your marriage or are you simply there to meet his needs, to be his emotional support and emotional backup plan, while he blatantly disregards you and your needs and your rights within the marriage. 

It seems very clear to me that your WH is not a great father or a good husband or a decent respectable man of integrity or even that great of a human being. He seems quite narcissistic, arrogant and self-deluded.
Also he pressured his mistress of 2 1/2 years BADLY to abort this OC that he is now lamenting so about and he had a two and a half year affair with a coworker. This is not a onetime slip or a momentary lapse of judgment or a small indiscretion. This is a full fledged secondary relationship with all the aspect of a relationship including reproduction. Your WH was happily living a double life at your and your daughters expense and he felt entitled to do so and now feels entitled to treat you as best suits him and his desires and need while pretending that he is so concerned for you and your well being. 

Your WH made choices for your life that he knew full well you would never make for yourself or your daughter. Why continue sharing your life and giving your love and support to a man that has had so blatantly little regard and respect for you. I am sure he can be a good provider for your daughter without your having to be married to him. Surely you know that you deserve so much better than this and actually so does your daughter.


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

I agree that my H has created chaos and has hurt a lot of innocent people (me and the children). If he had not been so remorseful, I would not have taken it this far for reconciliation. He took responsibility for the affair. He has not missed one session of counseling. He is trying, somewhat.

I know our child will find out about the OC one day. I think it would be great if they could have a relationship, especially since our child is an only child. In my dream world, we would have a stepfamily type relationship, all three of us going to the OC's home once every few weeks, then bringing the OC back for extended vacations with us (remember, it's a great distance). With my H the way he feels, that will never happen. I feel bad that I was a co-conspirator so far in hiding from her the fact that the OC was born, but since she could not get access anyway, I will just tell her that we waited to tell her until she was a little older and could process the whole thing.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

The affair is ongoing. Or he at least wants it to continue. 

He is using the facade of being a "father" to carry on with the Affair. 

-File for Divorce.
-Expose everything to everyone-friends, family and so on. 
-Kick him out of the marital home
-File for sole custody of your child
-180
-Detach. 

Sorry you're here. Stay healthy. Vent here. Good luck.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

It's not the other child he's craving for. He's craving for the other woman. He is using the child as an excuse so he can go and sleep with her guilty free which he probably did already when he visited her secretly.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There is always a danger that OW will ask him to dinner. Onthe table there will red wine and fresh sheets on her bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Break up this marriage where we love each other?


I think it's a marriage where you love him, but I'm not seeing much if any evidence that he loves you. I think he loves his daughter which is why he's made efforts at making your relationship work since the affair blew up, but - he lies to you, and would rather divorce you than upset OW because "he owes her that."

He feels after 20 + years, that he owes you nothing. 

Also, your daughter is 13. How much older do you think she'd need to be to understand this?

And, the longer you wait to expose the more you risk he'll attempt to turn this around on you and make it that you couldn't forgive him for the affair. What happens if the reason he wants to divorce you is that in his perfect world he wants sole custody of both children without being concerned with either you or the OW?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with other posters. He is pining for OW. 

Such a sad situation for you and your daughter. I recommend you see a lawyer to find out your options. I know you don't want to D, however, you do need to be informed in the choices you have and the decisions you make. 

Best of luck.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> As for those who think he will repeat the adultery, he said to me, he got burned so bad by this (the universe will punish him type feelings), he would never be able to cheat again. I know him. I believe him. He's a bit superstitious and believes in karma.


If he truly believed in karma he would never had an affair nor had sex with a woman without using a condom.

Your H is an idiot. Or he is seriously disturbed.

Because he is cheating on you everyday he keeps this horrible situation a secret.

And what did he do after having an affair and a baby with the OW?

He met with her in secret from you to see the OC.

Guess what? Your H has not learned any lessons from his affair.

He would rather D you than not see his OW/OC????

Now you see where you rank in his life.

He needs to get visitation straightened out legally.

And he needs to stop the OW from dictating terms of who is involved in each others lives.

They both lost that right months ago.

Tell your H to grow up and act like a man.

Because if you don't he will get that D you do not want.

*Stop letting him take the easy way out of bad situations.

That is all that has taken place so far.*
HM


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needpeacenow said:


> In my dream world, we would have a *stepfamily type relationship*, all three of us going to the OC's home once every few weeks, then bringing the OC back for extended vacations with us (remember, it's a great distance). *With my H the way he feels, that will never happen.*


My take on it is that your husband is not "over" the other woman, and also that he is protecting his own "reputation." Both of those things seem to come before the other child, you, and your daughter.

I am very sympathetic to your situation. It's terrible that you are in this position, having to make these types of decisions. I can appreciate that you are trying to protect your daughter and you feel that your husband will leave if you force the issue and you just are not ready for that to happen. Do the best you can, broach the subject again with him when it comes up.

Some of the other posters and I have seen a lot of stories about cheaters, and cheaters' behavior is fairly predictable when you know what to look for. That is why you are seeing the kinds of posts that you are seeing. They can see the train wreck coming and are trying to jolt you into becoming aware of it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

He went behind your back to see the child because he felt guilty, yet now he wants no contact with him again? Major contradiction. Is it possible the OW ended it with him? 

Do you have access to his emails and phone bill?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

It's over. I know it now. I have read each of these posts with total objectivity, re-read my after-affair self-help books, meditated, cried, and talked to my dad (my mom has passed away) about everything. It's over and I couldn't see that I was holding on to a fantasy about what and who I wanted, not the reality.

I am having coffee today with a divorced girlfriend to get support. Then this week I will talk to my counselor about how my husband and I will tell our darling daughter that (1) we are getting a divorced (2) your dad cheated on your mom (3) you now have a half-sibling living elsewhere.

I need to stock up on kleenex boxes first.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

I am sorry about your situation. You have been very understanding -perhaps too much- and paying the price for that.

I agree with you. Divorce is a good move. Especially if you have still some thoughts about an eventual reconciliation.

Divorce now, maybe rekindle later.

Stay strong. You are on the right path.

Keep busy. Now is the time to seek the comfort of friends and family.

I wish you the best.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Needpeacenow said:


> It's over. I know it now. I have read each of these posts with total objectivity, re-read my after-affair self-help books, meditated, cried, and talked to my dad (my mom has passed away) about everything. It's over and I couldn't see that I was holding on to a fantasy about what and who I wanted, not the reality.
> 
> I am having coffee today with a divorced girlfriend to get support. Then this week I will talk to my counselor about how my husband and I will tell our darling daughter that (1) we are getting a divorced (2) your dad cheated on your mom (3) you now have a half-sibling living elsewhere.
> 
> I need to stock up on kleenex boxes first.


While this sounds sad and is probably what you would consider a worst case scenario, I think, without a shadow of a doubt, this is the best post you've made, and the one that will set you on the path to a better life. Good luck.

Once you tell your H your decision, be prepared for him to pull out all the stops to try to convince you to stay in the marriage. When he does this, realize it is all bullsnot. He will only be doing this to save his own butt, to avoid embarrassment, and to keep you in the stable in case he can't make it work with the OW. Don't fall for it. Deep down, you know this is an impossible situation.


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## Visionknower (Oct 14, 2013)

It’s so important that your daughter knows that she has a parent that is forthright and honest with her. Not brutally honest but absolutely honest. She will make sense of what has occurred at her own pace if she knows the truth and knows that she can count on you to be truthful and genuinely honest with her always. This will help her maintain a solid and grounded sense of reality.

Often the worse part of betrayal is the lie. It distorts a persons own sense of reality.

You do not have to pretend you are not hurt or hide the pain that this has caused and you do not have to protect her from the truth of who her father has chosen to be. She will appreciate the truth and your consistent dependable support more than anything else. Standing in your own integrity and your genuine love for your daughter and honoring her self-worth and your own self-worth is a powerful act love.

Your WH has proven that he is not an honest or trustworthy man. It seems obvious that he has a distorted sense of entitlement that is selfish and arrogant. It also seems that he is quite skilled in convincing you of things that are not true about him. He knows that you trust him and he has used your trust in him to trick and deceive you. How can you insure he is no longer able to do this? Your trust that he is something that you have believed he was for years now, and this is simply not true. He has and does lie and he is selfish and you can count on this from him. He may be able to deceive himself, do not allow him to deceive you. My bet is that there are still many things that you do not know regarding your husband and his behaviors. 
Open your eyes fully. Activate and listen to your internal instinctual sense of knowing. Use this knowing to discern what is truth and what is not true and then trust what you know and trust yourself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You have, I think, come to the right decision.

We'll be here for you.


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## Needpeacenow (Jan 11, 2014)

I told him today that it is over, because he has been over it since the pregnancy, I have just been in denial about that, and I am finally opening my eyes.

I gave him examples of his continued lies (secret trip), unwillingness to place my needs above that of the OW.

He hung is head and was quiet. He did not argue with me.

Strangely, I have not cried that much since then. Not as much as during some of discussions in/following MC sessions. 

Our daughter has a big competitive event on Jan 25 so we will wait to tell her. That will give him time to find another place to live and to tell his parents, and will not compromise her for her big day.

Thanks to all here...I knew I needed to do this, I just posted here in a last ditch effort to see if I was wrong or not


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Needpeacenow said:


> I told him today that it is over, because he has been over it since the pregnancy, I have just been in denial about that, and I am finally opening my eyes.
> 
> I gave him examples of his continued lies (secret trip), unwillingness to place my needs above that of the OW.
> 
> ...


You are certainly not wrong.

I hope you find some peace NOW!

You certainly deserve it.

HM


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Sorry need peace, but you married a complete idiot. Look at the choices he makes. Do not sit n limbo waiting for this moron to have a good idea. Do not allow him to make important decisions for you. Has he shown that he has anyone's best interest at heart. No, not even his own. He can't even get being a selfish prick right. File, establish your rights in the eyes of the courts (you should have done this before oc was born), and go from there. Deal from strength, and don't shelter in his weakness.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Needpeacenow said:


> He hung is head and was quiet. He did not argue with me.
> 
> Strangely, I have not cried that much since then. Not as much as during some of discussions in/following MC sessions.


This should tell you that you were 100% correct in ending it with him. Don't backtrack.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He did not argue with you. That silence is worth a thousand words. He wanted the out, but didn't want to be the one to do it. He is a coward. I'm sorry, but he is.

You are the strong one with the good heart. I wish you the best.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Good for you.

I hope you keep your head up and stay strong for yourself and your daughter good luck to you.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> I am sorry about your situation. You have been very understanding -perhaps too much- and paying the price for that.


So true! 

I think 'understanding' and 'selfish cheating liar' don't go well. Not a good mix....though does anything mix with cheating liar? I guess only another of the same!

Being too understanding means they can walk all over you. And prolongs your agony. I was the same, have been the same, still the same.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> He did not argue with you. That silence is worth a thousand words. He wanted the out, but didn't want to be the one to do it. He is a coward. I'm sorry, but he is.
> 
> You are the strong one with the good heart. I wish you the best.


Dead on once again.
His silence is no more than relief. It had to be you the one to clean the mess for him once again.
What a complete coward.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Dead on once again.
> His silence is no more than relief. It had to be you the one to clean the mess for him once again.
> What a complete coward.


Agree
Be ready for him to start blaming you for the split, since it was your idea, do not buy into his crap.
In his deluded mind, he is still a good man who wanted to do right by you and his mistress. You will become the bad person, you are the one ending the marriage. DO NOT listen to his mess. Be strong. 
Good luck


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

After the incredible gift you gave your husband by agreeing to stay in the marriage, he's shown his true colors. You say is has shown remorse. I say he has not.

If he was truly remorseful, there would be nothing more important to him than his second chance with you. You would have priority over everything else in his life.

You suggested a reasonable compromise on visitation. He rejected it to protect the OW. I agree with the other posters that suggested that he still has feelings for her, and this is more likely about her than the OC. 

I have a feeling that one day soon, after you've divorced; that he'll realize what a fool he is was; not just once, but twice.

You deserve better than that; and I believe in the long run you'll see that divorcing him is best for you.

Good luck to you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

So needpeacenow how are you doing?

How did your D's event go?

And did you discuss your family's future together?

HM


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## standinginthegap (Jan 16, 2014)

Needpeacenow said:


> Is there hope through all of this? Am I crazy for not asking for a divorce? Is there anything I should be doing besides praying and waiting while he "grieves" or "decides"?


NPN, remember there is always hope in a hopeless situation but I wouldn't look at your situation as hopeless. It's seems as if outside of this little hiccup things are fine between you and your spouse, so not wanting a divorce doesn't make you crazy. And this is very well something you two can make it through. You already said the key to the answer of this situation: prayer. Praying over the situation and seeking Gods guidance is one of the most powerful things you can do for your marriage. And believe me I know prayer works, my God is still in the miracle working business. Give the situation over to Him and pray that His will be done.

"delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart". Let him know what it is that you desire in this situation and if it lines up with his word trust that he will deliver. Have faith in Gods faithfulness. Not just a faith that he will do it but a faith that it is already done, now that's a new type of faith.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

little hiccup????

Leave this woman alone. She is making the right decision. Why must you push your personal agenda on everyone here? Aren't there other forums and websites more suitable to your mission? I think if a woman on here found out she was married to a murderer and pedophile you would still advise her to stand by her man. 

OP- We all hope you and your daughter are doing well. Update us when you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

NPN, you may feel horrible right now but imagine what the years ahead would be like if you stayed - WH & his dramatic OW and an innocent baby and YOU & your D caught in the middle of their mess.

She's not thinking of her baby at all with her ultimatum - no contact or fortnightly contact. WH was just as bad - prepared to have no contact with OC for fear of upsetting dramatic OW??? Are you kidding me? Contrast that with your offer to accept and embrace OC as a step child - the child of your husband's mistress! 

YOU were the only person in all of this thinking of the OC and putting that first and foremost. You are a MIGHTY big person in my eyes!

My feeling is she got pregnant deliberately - after all she chased him. However it backfired. Maybe they will get together. But the thing is that he deserted her & she wasn't expecting that. She will NEVER let him forget it. Would you? Hold that thought. 

Deserting her when pg would be every bit as painful if not worse than betrayal IMO.

Also don't forget that although you were in R, he lied to you again and it was a whopper. And he would again in the future if it suited him. You did everything you could - and more - to save your marriage. He doesn't deserve you. Have no regrets. 

I wish you and you daughter well. You are one awesome lady.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

LoveNpieces said:


> I am very sorry for what has happened to you. I am going through my own situation right now with my husband as well. My husband said we couldn't be together while he has feelings for another woman (my story is in thread Painfully broken)
> Your husband seems like a manipulator like mine is doing to me now.
> Instead of worrying about us their wives, they are more concerned with giving credence to these other women and their relations and in your case now child.
> While yes what he did is deplorable as well as what my husband has done what makes it worse is that they are treating US their wives as disposable.
> ...


:iagree:

The OW gets to decide when the H visits.

The OW gets to decide that the W cannot accompany the H when he visits.

He feels he must "honor" his "promise" to the OW in regards to visitation (or lack thereof) but does not honor his W and put her wishes first.

He places the OW's needs and/or requests over and above himself and his own current family.

He places the OW's needs and/or request over and above the innocent child.

And what does he get out of all that? He misses the growth of the innocent child. He hurts his wife in order to honor some bogus promise he made to the OW. He pretends to be "honorable" by honoring his promise to the OW and his whole world could crash down in an instant. And it needs to. Nobody can keep a lie like this forever. Nobody.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Needpeacenow said:


> It's over. I know it now. I have read each of these posts with total objectivity, re-read my after-affair self-help books, meditated, cried, and talked to my dad (my mom has passed away) about everything. It's over and I couldn't see that I was holding on to a fantasy about what and who I wanted, not the reality.
> 
> I am having coffee today with a divorced girlfriend to get support. Then this week I will talk to my counselor about how my husband and I will tell our darling daughter that (1) we are getting a divorced (2) your dad cheated on your mom (3) you now have a half-sibling living elsewhere.
> 
> I need to stock up on kleenex boxes first.



I sincerely hope that you now find the peace that you are searching for. Actually, I know you will. I am so sorry for your pain and am glad that you have decided to move forward. You and your daughter will be fine. Trust yourself.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

You made the right decision to leave him. It will help your sanity and more importantly, it will help your child. She will not have to live in a toxic household where mommy and daddy always have tension. She will have a good example/role model of a strong woman in you. You don't want her growing up thinking it's ok to be a doormat.

Your story makes me angry and sad at the same time. What a rollercoaster you have. I am so sorry you and your daughter have to go through such trauma because of your very weak STBXH.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

standinginthegap said:


> "delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart". Let him know what it is that you desire in this situation and if it lines up with his word trust that he will deliver. Have faith in Gods faithfulness. Not just a faith that he will do it but a faith that it is already done, now that's a new type of faith.


I understand that faith gives internal strength, however, to put all responsibilities on God, it's just not serious 

NPN, I believe you've done the right thing. 

Maybe your WH was remorseful immediately after his affair but definitely not now. Look, he cheated, now has a child with OW, wants to be in OC life and wants a divorce - what any wife can do to save the marriage? 

Don't want to sound cynical but the only thing left is to invite OW with OC and to live together as one big family...

Take care of yourself and your daughter!


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