# Just found out my wife was abused as child



## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Mods - please advise if there is a better sub forum.

This item finally came out 2 hours into our regular 'my intimacy needs aren't being met' disagreement late last night.

Known my wife for 5 years, married for 3. Her dad's dad is the abuser - inappropriate touching when she was young and that's really all I can say with certainty other than no intercourse.

My wife is the type that is NOT introspective, NOT self aware, NOT very open to counseling of any type. She feels shame, lots of memory suppression, she just wants it to go away. If she had her way, we would never talk about this again and this data would serve to get me to understand her barriers to intimacy, and that would be the end of it.

Intimacy issues now being like 17th down on my to-solve list, I now share in this burden with her and feel overwhelmed with anger towards her grandfather (who lives out of state and we don't see regularly) empathy towards my wife but fear that she will drive me away when I encourage her to seek counseling. My first instinct was that she needed to tell her dad (who is a great person) especially since she has a younger sister. I told her that she is in charge of what we do with this, but I did not bring up the idea of counseling at the time, and I feel very strongly that needs to happen. Not that this is a foregone conclusion, but this piece of info explains her POV on the vast majority of conflicts we have had.

What I NEED HELP with is: 
-how do I help her take the step to seek counseling? 

-I feel like I am doing my father in law wrong by not insisting that he is made aware of this. I know trust with my wife comes first, but this aspect will wear on me fast and hard. Need input here.

Thanks in advance!


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

maverick23, you are so screwed.

But you didn't ask for opinions, so I will give you suggestions.

First of all, SHE has to be the one who wants to go to counseling. Ideas that come to mind for you to help her get counseling include doing research into CSA online and finding articles and research papers that indicate how things turn out for people who address the trauma versus people who don't.

Present the information in the context of helping her, or helping the two of you as a couple, and try to do so in as positive a light as you can.

Were you to take a harder stance, and I don't think you will, you could emphasize that her failure to mention this little detail before you got all attached and married to her was pretty un-cool on her part. You could then follow on with the fact that the trauma is already impacting your happiness in the marriage, and that it REALLY needs to be addressed, or else <cue soap-opera organ sting>.

You want to let your FIL know that HIS FATHER committed a pretty heinous act. I understand that him not-knowing will eat at you, but your wife needs to begin the process of coming to grips with this before he is made aware of things. He needs to hear it from her, not you.

So as far as recommendations go, I suggest that you focus on getting your wife into therapy. If you need to go along to get her to go, then go along. CSA is going to affect the marriage, so you'll need to be part of the solution, if your wife will let you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Let her be the captain of her disclosure ship, you just follow her plan. UNLESS...there are other children who could be at risk.

Your wife is essentially making a case that you accept relative sexlessness on account of her CSA history. Reverse it for her. Would she accept your chronic unemployment on account of your troubled past?

I don't understand why people seem to think that unconditional love is part of a marriage. It simply isn't. If we marry for love we have to work at keeping that love alive and growing.

Your wife needs to understand that you are a safe person but you are a man who will not live a sexless life. Communicate that you will hold her hand and be there for her, but you won't be able to stay in love with someone who can't or won't love you back.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

In the past, your wife has stuffed things into the back of the closet as her way of "dealing" with what happened to her. If she can, she'll continue to do so. Going to counselling, therapy, exposing... All those are horribly painful. But some pain may be required to get your relationship to where your needs are being met as well as hers. Only you can decide if you can accept what she's willing to offer. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## delirium (Apr 23, 2012)

This is just one persons experience with this, but here's my story.

My mom was similarly abused by her father for many years of her childhood, and when she told my dad she basically said the same thing to him as your wife told you. He never pushed her to talk about it or go to counseling. My mom has basically spent her entire life in a deep miserable depression, most of my memories consist of her laying in bed saying she doesn't feel well. My dad did/ still does everything, worked full time and took care of the house, the cooking, and all the children because my mom just couldn't handle anything. 

In my opinion, if your wife doesn't seek help at some point, this will not only affect your sex life but your entire marriage/family life as well.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

NotLikeYou said:


> First of all, SHE has to be the one who wants to go to counseling. Ideas that come to mind for you to help her get counseling include doing research into CSA online and finding articles and research papers that indicate how things turn out for people who address the trauma versus people who don't..


This... those kinds of unresolved issues will haunt the relationship and the odds go up substantially you will be a 'secondary survivor' and a victim of her troubled sexual past as she struggles internally and is triggered. Do the research...

Exposure... tough call. Personally, I just try to get her help and talking to a pro about it so it doesn't impact your relationship down the line. It's already a problem and you are on the hook for a lifetime of sexual degradation if you stay. You want to stay, she I assume wants you to as well.... So she needs to face this demon to have a happy future for the both of you.


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Thanks for the thoughts.

Honestly, I haven't though about the sex/intimacy part all day. I am more concerned with how else this is affecting her. We have been trying to conceive for 7 months now - with complications but that's another story - and now I cannot stomach us parenting anyone without a good chunk of effort pout into resolving this. Cannot really mention that to her as we are both very anxiously (complications) excited to have kids, me putting brakes on that will kill her spirit.

That, and I really empathize for my father in law. I fear I will go crazy if we don't have a plan in place to talk to him, so I am very concerned for myself as well if my wife cannot move on this.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Do the research. I am no expert; just have my own experiences with someone who didn’t deal with a sexual trauma… 

The last thing I’d really worry about is her ability to parent. If anything, she’s is going to be hyper-critical of you and others around that child to the point of driving you nuts. And there’s your sex life and even energy focused towards you again…. Now you are super-duper low on the priority list that a child is added. That child will always come before you and be the perfect excuse why she doesn’t have the time or energy for you so she can avoid dealing with that elephant. At first you’ll write it off; Infants take a lot of energy and interrupt sleep. But that becomes normal and doesn’t wear off like it might with women who haven’t been traumatized. She’s discovered she can avoid the sex & intimacy issue by doting on her role as a Mom… Which fits right in with the avoidance coping mechanism she used to block out her childhood trauma. Neat how that works eh? 

I assume you are human? How good are you at being abandoned and regulated to servant status in your own house without intimacy (or regulated down to pity/duty sex)? You won’t react well if you are human because that isn’t how loving couples who are into each other work in your mind. She won’t like that pressure you feed back into the relationship. A pressure cooker starts….

My wife: She's an awesome Mom. Horrible wife though....

Oh.. edit. If I’m right and her and my SIL were abused by their grandfather. Her sister eventually cracked and turned to alcohol and prescription drugs; Same avoidance thing going on and always playing a role of ‘victim’ as her own marriage fell apart. That wiped her out as “mom of the year” and eventually left two kids without a mother (she died). Both suffer from depression. Both are control oriented personas. 

Basically, the lesson is they really need help in finding healthy ways to deal with it all since ‘rugsweep’ and ‘avoidance/escape’ aren’t real healthy ways to deal with what life throws at you.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

maverick23 said:


> Mods - please advise if there is a better sub forum.
> 
> This item finally came out 2 hours into our regular 'my intimacy needs aren't being met' disagreement late last night.
> 
> ...


This is not a good place to be in at all and I don't envy you. She has been abused and certainly should have shared this with you prior to marriage but since she didn't not much sense in rehashing that since it will change nothing. 

Tell her you are willing to do the work with her, help her find a therapist, go with her to sessions and so on. But one way or another you need to tell her that this is affecting your life as well and you both need to work this together.

Table the family involvement at this time. Through therapy you will discuss the best way to move forward for her and you and both of you as a couple. Just encourage her to take the first step


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

maverick23,

Sorry to hear about your situation. This is definitely a marriage emergency that needs to be addressed promptly. I recommend you do not get her pregnant and have a discussion with her about getting counseling. You have a rough road ahead and it was not her fault what happened but she should have disclosed this. 

Personally if I would going to get married to somebody and I found out months before that she was abused, I would insist on delaying or calling off the wedding. Sexual abuse when young destroys sexual fulfillment as adults. It's a terrible tragedy to say the least. If sex is not important to you for love and bonding then continue your current course of action. If its important, ask her to consider counseling and if she refuses it might be time to divorce.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

maverick23 said:


> Thanks for the thoughts.
> 
> Honestly, I haven't though about the sex/intimacy part all day. I am more concerned with how else this is affecting her. We have been trying to conceive for 7 months now - with complications but that's another story - and now I cannot stomach us parenting anyone without a good chunk of effort pout into resolving this. Cannot really mention that to her as we are both very anxiously (complications) excited to have kids, me putting brakes on that will kill her spirit.
> 
> That, and I really empathize for my father in law. I fear I will go crazy if we don't have a plan in place to talk to him, so I am very concerned for myself as well if my wife cannot move on this.


You are being extremely selfish and irresponsible for bringing children into a potentially unhealthy marriage. Children DO NOT FIX ANYTHING! Trust me I know this personally. Children actually have a tendency to bring out these repressed feelings. Please, get counseling before even considering children.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

maverick23 said:


> Thanks for the thoughts.
> 
> Honestly, I haven't though about the sex/intimacy part all day. I am more concerned with how else this is affecting her. We have been trying to conceive for 7 months now - with complications but that's another story - and now I cannot stomach us parenting anyone without a good chunk of effort pout into resolving this. Cannot really mention that to her as we are both very anxiously (complications) excited to have kids, me putting brakes on that will kill her spirit.
> 
> That, and I really empathize for my father in law. I fear I will go crazy if we don't have a plan in place to talk to him, so I am very concerned for myself as well if my wife cannot move on this.


Please listen to one thing man.

The fact that you just bumped down your needs to cater to her emotional well-being shows you are a good guy, and is fantastic.

But coming from a guy that's seen this close-up: do not let this become a way of life.

If she won't go to counselling or come to a resolution some other way... you do so.

It is absolutely unfair and a crime what happened to her. But it doesn't mean that what happened to her in the past means that you live a life sentence of living without your needs being met.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I would not start a family with her until she seeks some counceling about her past abuse. and even then if she can't meet your needs sexually after counceling then I would walk.

only married 3 yrs. if she isn't on board with getting help then I leave.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I agree with others. DO NOT proceed with her getting counseling/help.

DO NOT move forward!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Is it fair to a child to bring it into a marriage where sexlessness and unresolved CSA is the theme? THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

After years of suffering in a marriage where my wife called me a "pervert" for wanting sex with her (just normal sex--nothing weird) she finally revealed she was abused as a child. I won't bore you with all the details--you can search my other threads for the full story.

You are in for a LONG HAUL. Read the book "Haunted Marriage", it's written for you as a spouse.

Your wife needs to face this demon, and come to grips with the fact that now she is MARRIED and has an obligation to herself and to you to heal. It's not easy, but it can be done. If she chooses not to heal--well, only you can make that call--but I think you already have a glimpse of what the rest of your marriage will be like.

I feel for you. I know EXACTLY what you are going through.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

As a CSA survivor, your wife needs to deal with this. She couldn't control what happened to her as a child but she absolutely can take the reigns and control what she does about it as an adult. 

She needs to heal BEFORE bringing kids into this world. I was lucky in that I had counseling to help me heal and process this from a very young age. I think I'd be a different person and mother had I not had such good intervention from an early start. 

Stuffing/hiding from the pain, lack of affection in marriage, anxiety issues and possible hyper-vigilance about their safety/being abused etc. are just some of the things they will learn by example or witnessing and have to contend with if your wife doesn't get the help she needs.

All of that said, while encouraging your wife to get help, please don't treat her differently. One of the worst things for me, in telling a spouse or boyfriend about my abusive past was feeling patronized or pitied by him about it. CSA victimization is something that happened to me and that I had to heal from BUT it is NOT who I am.


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Thanks for the thoughts. And wouldn't you know it, my wife was pregnant when I started this post though we didn't know it yet. So clock is now ticking I suppose. 

We haven't touched on this topic since the one and only time, and I plan on bringing it back in a few weeks after a couple vacations come and go.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Maverick, feel free to PM me if you need to.

My wife was also a victim of this, only it was her father. She was 16, so not as much a "kid" as your wife.

I knew it when we were engaged - decided to marry her anyway. Here are some thing you should expect.

1) Without severe help, her self esteem will always be low. This will require you to put more effort into her than you would for a usual relationship. Also, she will be more susceptible to other men's compliments and attention.

2) Forcing therapy is a bad move. Encourage it once or twice, and then let it be. This has been the most frustrating element for me. My wife went to therapy in college, said it did no good, and now won't go back.

3) Sex might eventually be fine. My wife actually loves sex. I think it's her way to feel close and protected by me.

4) You need to build her up every chance you get, to help with #1

5) Make sure you get a healthy amount of "you" time also. Don't forget who you are and that you deserve enjoyment in life.


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> Maverick, feel free to PM me if you need to.
> 
> My wife was also a victim of this, only it was her father. She was 16, so not as much a "kid" as your wife.
> 
> ...


That's very good advice, although I have to question #3. How did you arrive there? Do you speak with her about this somewhat regularly or have you invested time working through it with her?


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## TruthHunter (Jul 15, 2014)

Maverick, you are getting some good advice from these guys. My experience with my wife has been that it gets worse over time, not better (wife having had no treatment). We started out as a highly functional happy family, and have devolved into dysfunction over the years. Which has been primarily driven by her CSA related depression.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mav, this is one of the best threads we've ever had here at TAM dealing with CSA. You're getting the best advice on the planet from those who are married to CSA survivors and from survivors themselves. 

My wife was abused as a grade schooler by a neighbor. I don't know the content of her abuse except for one time for sure the guy kissed her in front of her family. It was some sick form of enforcing secrecy, I believe.

As a result, one of my wife's triggers is kissing. She just doesn't like to be kissed. She also has an aversion to a particular candy and to a particular song. It would have been nice to know about this 30 years sooner! 

The point is, your wife will have various triggers and other issues related to her abuse which may not be obvious. You have no right to know the content of the abuse unless she wants to tell you. IMO you should state only one time that you are there to listen if she ever wants to tell you about what happened to her. But then stfu about what exactly happened during her abuse.

But, this is the important part, she has to inform you whenever something is bothering her or triggering her. Whether or not she connects it directly to the abuse, but especially if she does make a connection. It is not fair to her, but it is also not fair to YOU. I think back on all the times I tried to kiss her and she broke it off, or when I would playfully make fun of her about the food/candy thing. I was becoming her abuser! In her subconscious I was being equated to her abuser. This must have very negative impacts on our relationship. And it makes me feel terrible for triggering her, even though I had no way of knowing at the time. She suffered horrible stuff no child should have to go through, and then I just piled on top of that some more suffering which was needless and preventable if only she had spoken up.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

As far as triggers go, yes she definitely has them even if you don't know. You might see her turning her head away (like my wife would do when I tried to kiss her), perhaps during sex. You might notice her zoning out, again it is likely to be during sex but it could be whenever something triggers her such as a tv show or a particular song on the radio. Stop what you're doing and just be there for her when she gets through it.

When the baby is born you might be in for a very negative surprise. Many women become highly triggered or perhaps more accurately desperately overprotective of the baby. You will now become 1347th on her list of things to take care of. You might very well become unconsciously in her mind a threat to the baby. Especially if it is a girl baby. You being a mature adult male relative are in the same category as who molested her. She may create barriers between you and the baby.

My wife went through this. She had nightmares and flashbacks after the first baby, a girl, was born. There was not one single thing I could do that met her standards. Not change a diaper, not mix formula, nothing. There was always some complaint or correction. Daily she would have a rage at me. I never knew when it was coming, but it always did.

You have the benefit of knowing of your wife's CSA history, which I did not. Don't accept bad behavior from her.

My advice is that you seek some form of MC, and definitely some IC for yourself. You cannot tell your wife she is "broken" or "damaged"! This is nuclear to the CSA survivor because it hits at her deepest fears. In my opinion the best way to approach this is as a marital problem, and get into MC with her. A good MC will read her and know there are issues there. If you have a private session you can bring up the CSA and let the MC know you think it is a factor. Or, you can ask your wife for permission to bring up the CSA with her in MC, but I don't recommend that as it really backfired on me. My wife went completely on the defense with a strong offense, and MC failed after 3 sessions.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

It is up to your wife to decide whether to tell her father about the abuse. Keep in mind that you might not have full or accurate info from her about who/what/when of the CSA. Also, her dad may well have been abused by his father or other relative. This can get very complicated very quickly. She should only reveal to others if there is a benefit to her or if other children are at risk.

Your baby will be at risk from the grandfather. But also possible her father. Typically, abusers were abused themselves. Not every abused child grows up to be an abuser (probably far from it). But if her father was abused, he may be a threat to your child.

You will have to come up with some thoughts and strategies regarding her side of the family.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

You need to let her go at her own speed. This topic may come up again tomorrow or it may not for another 5 years. Thats the tricky part. You cant keep reminding her of it in hopes of making her talk.

Also, people recommend books etc.. but I would recommend reading these in private. My reason is that I think a CSA survivor may get the impression you think something is wrong with her and youre trying to deal with her.. this wouldnt help either.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

BostonBruins32 said:


> Also, people recommend books etc.. but I would recommend reading these in private. My reason is that I think a CSA survivor may get the impression you think something is wrong with her and youre trying to deal with her.. this wouldnt help either.


My wife totally freaked out when she saw I was reading a book on CSA.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think the key to change is to make it about the undesirable behaviors, not about what the root cause may or may not be. She has to decide a change is necessary, and then she has to decide to pursue some form of help (books, IC, MC, etc), and then she has to actually do the work.

Telling her she needs therapy or that something is wrong with her is not likely to be received well. Most people wouldn't like it, but the CSA survivor has some very deep fears and cannot tolerate an accusation that they are somehow damaged by the CSA.


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

Thanks for the advice all.

By way of my county-level sexual assault hot line, I found a counseling center that specializes in this area, and has a group for partners of survivors. We've tried MC on three separate occasions to limited success, thought not with this background info. What are your thoughts on specialized IC, for her? I will seek it myself after our upcoming holiday.

A big theme in our marital issues has been her reluctance/unwillingness to take responsibility for her side of the issues we have. She gets emotionally flooded at the drop of a hat and all sense and rationality go out the window. A counselor I spoke to said something like 'development stops at the point of abuse'. That would make a lot of sense here - she has little if any self awareness and generally sucks at being level headed and solving problems on her own volition, I have to drag her through the process and eventually we resolve but if I did not lead, I don't believe she would be capable of doing the mental work herself.

Having said that, I fear that she will never, ever, accept responsibility for her actions, and taking the 'undesirable behaviors' approach will put her on the defensive, implode her self-confidence, and throw her into meltdown mode.

For someone who runs from responsibility in the area of emotions in relationships, any tips on getting to the point where she understands that this affects her and those close to her, and it is not fair to anyone to continue to live in denial? Thanks in advance.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mav, it is a tough and uncertain road you're on.

The reason for taking the approach that there is an undesirable behavior is that this ignores the CSA. It really does not matter why she does X, it only matters that she does X and it bothers you.

The CSA survivor has some very deep fears. One of them is abandonment. She fears you will see her damaged/dirty/undesirable real self and you will leave her. Likely she has had real experiences of some sort which have included people in some way abandoning her due to the CSA. It might even be her parents told her to STFU about it if she tried to tell them it was happening. It could be a boyfriend she told in high school who then dropped her.

Another very deep fear is that _it is true_. What is true? That she is somehow at fault, that she is somehow dirty and undesirable, that she is to blame. And if it is true, and if you find out about it, you will abandon her.

That is, imo, the root of what you see in her refusing to accept responsibility. She probably has a difficult time accepting anything less than the appearance of perfection. She may be a high achiever.

Here is the mistake she is making: she equates the long term psychological side effects of the CSA with the CSA itself. That is, if she has side effects today, then she really is a broken, damaged, defective little girl who caused or deserved the abuse.

What she cannot properly see is that the side effects are not the abuse. She probably also cannot truly believe that she was in no way responsible for the abuse. We can see it, but she can't.

She likely has some attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors which are a result of the abuse but which might not be obvious to the unaware. For example, she may become unable to leave the young child with a babysitter. She may try to be the kids' best friend rather than be a parent. She may become depressed, or drink too much. She may become very prudish, such as not undressing in front of you, or perhaps not changing the baby's diaper in public bathrooms.

So the worst thing you can say is "You are damaged from the abuse and you need therapy". The second worse thing is to say she needs therapy.

What you can do is communicate that there are problems in the marriage, and you can hope she sees clearly that she has some distorted thoughts or some bad behaviors. She may never be willing to address her issues. IMHO the only way for a CSA survivor to recover is to get good competent therapy. She has to recognize the need for change before she will attempt trauma therapy.

If she can't or won't make good progress, your only choice is to make a nuclear boundary around therapy. That is a last ditch effort and you should be ready for divorce.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Much of my wife's negative behaviors were from her childhood CSA. Older half-sister molested her for several years. Half-sister, we believe, was molested by grandmother. 

Grandmother apparently molested her own daughters, including my wife's mother. Aunt killed herself because of it. Both my wife and MIL never passed on the behavior, but it certainly messed them up...especially when it was swept under the carpet. 

Half-sister never acknowledged her actions...and my wife felt like the scapegoat of the family because she was the only one who couldn't get it together...even her own mother who had experienced that same trauma distanced herself. So as a result, my wife could never have female relationships...and became promiscuous, a target with creeper men. Some guy at her church made moves on her when she was underage...and she was the one who was chastised.

Sadly, I knew some of this story when we met...but I had no idea of how it would hurt us in the long run...especially when marriage didn't quiet her demons as she had hoped. I ended up being the rescuer and she was free to cause a lot of havoc. She's finally pulling it together, but mainly it was a result of hitting bottom from all of her self-destructive behaviors.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm a female csa survivor. I quite like sex but I do have trouble really trusting people, and I must have complete trust to enjoy sex. I don't only mean trust in fidelity, I mean trust in my partner to have my back and look out for my best interests. It might sound like a father but it's not, I just need a man I can trust to be a man and back me up. My hb certainly isn't perfect but I do trust him to have my back, so I enjoy sex with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maverick23 (May 2, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm a female csa survivor. I quite like sex but I do have trouble really trusting people, and I must have complete trust to enjoy sex. I don't only mean trust in fidelity, I mean trust in my partner to have my back and look out for my best interests. It might sound like a father but it's not, I just need a man I can trust to be a man and back me up. My hb certainly isn't perfect but I do trust him to have my back, so I enjoy sex with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You sound like you are fairly at peace with your trauma, if you don't mind my saying.

Any tips on how to effectively communicate how CSA affects marriage, kids to a survivor without putting them on the defensive? Thanks in advance.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I am, but it took me a long time. I really thought I wasn't affected because I did like sex, but I was wrong. As I said, it affects my ability to deeply trust people because the adults in my life that were supposed to protect me didn't, and they knew what was going on and looked the other way. I'll dump a guy at the first sign of him showing interest in someone else, and I never engaged in the drama a lot of young people did. If I have the slightest inking I can't trust you in any way you're gone. I imagine it's hard for people to deal with me sometimes, but my hb has done ok for 9 years. 

It was a realization I came to myself, partly because of things I've seen here on TAM. It's tough to help someone who isn't ready to face it, but you could try talking to her over some wine and chocolate. Ask her if she's ever considered talking to somebody because letting an abusive scumbag control your life lets them win. It's a crappy way to live and she denies herself pleasures in life to avoid facing it. Most importantly, she denies herself true power and control over herself and spends her life being controlled by proxy. I think I would start with how it affects HER and bring the marriage up later. If you start with the marriage you run the risk of being seen as bringing up how it affects you, and that won't go over well. Healing must start with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

maverick23 said:


> That's very good advice, although I have to question #3. How did you arrive there? Do you speak with her about this somewhat regularly or have you invested time working through it with her?


Sorry, I didn't see this until now. To be honest, I don't know. Her sexual drive is her own. We'd have to ask her your question.

We do talk about her dad from time to time, he is in our lives and probably would deny he ever did what he did. He's actually a very good grandfather, etc, and is happy and easy to be around. However, it backs up on my wife sometimes. And we take precautions with our 14 year old daughter, just in case. So it's always "present" in our lives. I support her in whatever she needs regarding this issue.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

maverick23 said:


> A big theme in our marital issues has been her reluctance/unwillingness to take responsibility for her side of the issues we have. She gets emotionally flooded at the drop of a hat and all sense and rationality go out the window.
> 
> Having said that, I fear that she will never, ever, accept responsibility for her actions, and taking the 'undesirable behaviors' approach will put her on the defensive, implode her self-confidence, and throw her into meltdown mode.


Dang, these sections are often true for my wife as well. It comes and goes in streaks. She, in some ways, will always feel like a victim. It's such a shame too, because underneath, she's such a good human being. This sh*t has ruined her potential, and affected her decision making at times.

If your wife eventually halts any sort of help, you have to let it go and realize what you have is what you are going to have. If you can manage it and enjoy her still, great. If not, you have to decide whether you can stay with her.

People not in our position really have no idea how much more difficult it is to be enough of a husband to people like this. You just do the best you can, and make sure you still have things for yourself.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Mav,

You are getting some excellent advice here. The best explanation I've had for my wife's bizarre behavior is that she has a "broken template" for relationships (nearly ALL relationships) as a result of her CSA.

Without directly relating her bizarre behavior to CSA, I try to point out that her response is not acceptable when it varies from the norm. We talk about THE BEHAVIOR she is presently engaged in.

Sometimes it's as direct as me just saying, "That is not acceptable to me."

I remember once she had cooked a good meal for me and I was eating it she said to our dogs, "Well, I can't have sex with daddy but at least I can cook him a good meal." I just said, "That is not acceptable.", stopped eating, got up and left the house and went for a walk.

You have to remember this was after YEARS of being told I was a pervert for just wanting normal, regular sex with my wife. She lied to me for years and years and years, knowing all along that the problem was primarily on HER side of the bed, not mine.

It's OK to set some boundaries. It's OK to tell her that what she is doing is hurting YOU.

You have to balance that with her need for support, but call her on her bull too. It's a hard thing to do--striking that balance.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JustAMan2 said:


> You have to remember this was after YEARS of being told I was a pervert for just wanting normal, regular sex with my wife. She lied to me for years and years and years, knowing all along that the problem was primarily on HER side of the bed, not mine.
> 
> *It's OK to set some boundaries. It's OK to tell her that what she is doing is hurting YOU.*
> 
> You have to balance that with her need for support, but call her on her bull too. It's a hard thing to do--striking that balance.


It's not just okay, it's important! Vital even.

I have to take exception though with your wording, "she lied to me for years and years knowing all along the problem was primarily hers." 

How you define lie, in this context, is pretty damned important!!

She didn't purposefully, willfully, and intentionally cause you to believe something she full well knew was untrue or false, now did she? 

No, what she did was hide. She lied to herself because it wasn't something she was ready to deal with. She hid past events, because that's what she always did, keep it a secret, don't tell anyone. Because what happens when you do tell someone? Just read this thread or any other about CSA and it's disgustingly obvious the child is taught, rather forcefully in some cases, to shut the hell up!

So do you really want to add MORE abuse on this past by calling your wife a liar because she couldn't face her past? I sure as hell hope not!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maverick, you guys are in your late 20's early 30's?

There is hope for your marriage. She is still young. But she has quite a mountain to climb. It's very scary, very intimidating to even contemplate it, which is why she needs to be the lead on her healing.

As has been discussed, check your boundaries. Keep them firm and enforce them gently and consistently. 

When she moves to invalidate your desire and need to connect through sex, do not take it personally. This isn't an insult to you. This is what she was taught, this is what she learned. Sex is for perverts. Be the loving adult who knows what is healthy. "No love, sex is wonderful when two heathy adults want to connect on a profound level. Wanting to do that often is also wonderful." 

Her emotional instability needs your balance. Yes, it will wear you out. This is why you should follow Gabriel's advice to the letter. Keep yourself healthy.

She is young and your relationship is relatively new, considering her relationship with her FOO has been four times the length of your marriage. It takes time to let go of the ineffective and self sabotaging we learned growing up.

Most CSA survivors go through periods of depression, sometimes profound. This will be when she is most likely to deal with what happened.

If she gets "thrown into melt down" how will you respond? I mean if you can't handle some shouting and tears how can you possibly be safe enough to really trust?


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> She didn't purposefully, willfully, and intentionally cause you to believe something she full well knew was untrue or false, now did she?


When a person is asked a direct question, like "Were you abused as a child?" and they respond "No." with the full knowledge that they were in fact abused--that is lying.

It's willful deception, plain and simple. Did she justify her deception in her mind? Yes, she did. Does that make it "not lying"? No, it doesn't. We humans are REAL good at deceiving ourselves (and others) when it comes to justifying our behavior (I know I am anyway).

Part of the healing from anything broken by lies to ADMIT that we have deceived ourselves (justification of wrong behavior) and we have deceived (aka--lied) to others as well--sometimes causing great harm.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JustAMan2 said:


> When a person is asked a direct question, like "Were you abused as a child?" and they respond "No." with the full knowledge that they were in fact abused--that is lying.
> 
> It's willful deception, plain and simple. Did she justify her deception in her mind? Yes, she did. Does that make it "not lying"? No, it doesn't. We humans are REAL good at deceiving ourselves (and others) when it comes to justifying our behavior (I know I am anyway).
> 
> Part of the healing from anything broken by lies to ADMIT that we have deceived ourselves (justification of wrong behavior) and we have deceived (aka--lied) to others as well--sometimes causing great harm.


We can split hairs on this for ever and it won't serve any purpose. Because by your definition a woman wearing make up is a liar, a man with an over the top sports car and a small penis is a liar. 

Here is why I wanted you to soften your stance on using character words carefully. Ask yourself how safe is your wife with you? How much can she rely upon you to understand her, to support her; to see her flaws and love her anyway when you make word choices that assassinate her character? Is this actually helping her and your marriage? 

When you asked her point blank if she was abused as a child and she said no, you might not have had the right to that answer at that time. Yes, she might have answered more cleverly to conceal the truth, or she might have understood abuse to mean something different at that time. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I recognized the way my parents dealt with me when I told them was abusive. That the way my mother dealt with me from then onward was abusive. Had I been asked prior to my 30's I would have said my mother is a b"tch but I wouldn't have said she was abusive. 

Talking about and admitting CSA takes a sh!t ton of bravery and the absence of that bravery doesn't a liar make.

But you go ahead and use that word all you want, then come back and b!tch when your wife never feels safe enough with you to open up to you.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if she would have been honest with him instead of lying to him before they got married this wouldn't be a problem.


But because she wants a free pass because of her past she just might have screwed up her marriage and could end up alone.

If I was in the situation I would have a difficult trusting my wife. I would feel cheated because I was sold a broken woman who hid it for years. cheated of having a more fulfilling relationship. 

none of this being his fault. tough pill to swallow.

Now if she came to before marriage and said I have to tell you something I would have totally different attitude one where I could help her get help for her past and work throuh it before we got married been more understanding about any sexual hang ups and then decide if it was something I could deal with or if it was something I should walk away from.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> if she would have been honest with him instead of lying to him before they got married this wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> 
> But because she wants a free pass because of her past she just might have screwed up her marriage and could end up alone.
> ...


Chilly, under your paradigm, only those who passed a battery of psychological evaluations by a panel of psychiatrists, psychologists and theologians have any right to marriage or expectations of a supportive spouse.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> Chilly, under your paradigm, only those who passed a battery of psychological evaluations by a panel of psychiatrists, psychologists and theologians have any right to marriage or expectations of a supportive spouse.


nobody has a right to marriage. 

two people who want to get married can get married.

and at least for me they wouldn't have to pass a battery of psychological evualitions by anybody except me which she would also have the same right to make sure I passed her tests. 

but if you lie about it then thats pretty bad. I can understand that because he loves his wife and has a history with her he might want to help her comes to terms with her past but I can also see some people not being able to get past the inital lie and feeling resentfull and not being able to get past it. 


so if a woman or a man had serious mental issues and hid that from their intended spouce and then after marriage said oh by the way I'm bat sh1t crazy and was affraid to tell you because I though you might not marry me. 

you would be ok with that?

It suck that she was abused. But lots of thing in the world suck. she abused him by not telling him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And there's the rub chilly, someone with serious mental issues can't hide them. It shows in how the behave and how they treat others.

Expecting an SO to disclose a diagnosis not yet made is a bit unrealistic. Expecting a CSA survivor to disclose prior to marriage is a completely absurd notion, for reasons I have already stated.

I'm getting tired of the bait and switch mentality showing up here at TAM lately. We all see our intended through Rose colored lenses and we all experience a bit of a rude awakening after marriage for a whole host of reasons.

For all of us, as we age and mature we become more capable of reframing our past in a healthier light, or more accurate light. This doesn't make us liars, or cheaters, or fakers. It simply reveals an evolution in understanding ourselves.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> And there's the rub chilly, someone with serious mental issues can't hide them. It shows in how the behave and how they treat others.
> 
> Expecting an SO to disclose a diagnosis not yet made is a bit unrealistic. Expecting a CSA survivor to disclose prior to marriage is a completely absurd notion, for reasons I have already stated.
> 
> ...


whaterver helps you sleep at night.


I think people with serious mental illness can hide them plenty good.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

This is the irreconcilable difference, the unbridgeable gap, between CSA victims and secondary survivor spouses. Both sides can present logical arguments with good reasons. This isn't a math problem with one right answer.

I think the proper resolution is for the Secondary Survivor to understand the long history and what was learned as a child by the CSA victim. In all of her life, she has always had a very negative response when the CSA was revealed, frequently in a very harmful way. And the CSA victim likewise should strive to understand how the spouse comes to view this as a betrayal of trust and in some cases an outright lie when they intentionally hid or intentionally spoke an untrue response about the abuse.

I will never agree that my wife did the right thing, though I understand how it came to be. The trauma she experienced from her parents' negative reactions may be worse than the trauma of the abuse events. At the same time, it seems a necessity for our relationship to heal for her to at some point acknowledge that her intentional hiding of the CSA from me has been damaging to me and our marriage, and that she did actually speak untrue answers to my questions several times.


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