# My story



## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Hi all... I am new to the forum and new to infidelity. I don't specifically have questions at this point and haven't delved enough into all the threads here yet, but just wanted to put my story out there and see what people's thoughts are.

Here goes (I apologize in advance for the length):

A little background: My husband and I have been married for 24 years this past July. We dated for four years before marrying. We had known each other for about 7 years or so before we dated. So basically, I have loved him since I was 9. I lost my virginity to him, and have only had him for the past 28 years. We have had a great marriage, two kids (9 & 16), and we are BFFs. We have always been able to talk about anything, we know each other innately, have had an excellent sex life and up until almost a year ago, have never kept secrets. 

Now, circumstances created what could be called a perfect storm and my husband had an affair. He began to go thru what I called a mid-life crisis... hating his job, regretting things not achieved, fearing his mortality, etc. His father fell very ill late last year, nearly died, then was in rehab. In the rehab facility my H met a woman whose sister was there. They struck up a friendship and he came home and told me about it. I knew the very moment he told me about her that there was a spark there, though he downplayed her repeatedly to me, and apparently continually reminded her he was married and very happily, at that. They became FB friends and then her mother died around T-day, and her sister around Xmas. She turned to him for support, and it really took off from there. He even went to her sister's funeral. After the funeral he stopped talking about her at all. Never mentioned her again. During this same period of time late in 2015, he was having sexual problems (problems finishing) and was obsessed with trying to finish and made himself raw. He couldn't stand to be touched at all, so we stopped having sex. He offered to "service" me but I felt guilty when he would do for me but me not be able to do for him... so sex stopped completely. I was hoping it would resume in a month or so, but it did not. Instead he withdrew from me completely; stopped kissing me, stopped touching me, stopped being around me at all, and started spending all his free time away from the house, or when he was here, he would spend all his time drinking in the shop.

It went on for months like this. When confronted, he could only say he didn't know how he felt, that he wanted to be alone, and that he was trying to work his thoughts out. Naturally I immediately began to suspect there was someone else and began journaling my suspicions. It was sheer hell. When I could get him to talk at all, he could never really tell me what was going on, and I could never get him to confirm or deny there was someone else. By the time July rolled around I told him that if he was unhappy living here, perhaps he should live somewhere else (that might sound like an ultimatum, but it wasn't; it was me trying to be helpful). He decided to find a room to rent for most of the week and did so. Mid-September we took a family vacation to the beach where I ultimately had a breakdown. I confronted him for the umpteenth time, and still he would not come clean. After we returned home, I confronted him again and he began to break down... he finally admitted there was someone else, that it was an EA. We talked at length about our own personal grievances, and made a tiny bit of progress. It was the next day that we continued to talk, and eventually he came completely clean, that yes, the affair was sexual as well. I was devastated but I had known all along, and knew it was with this woman, and that the room he was "renting" was in her house.

Here's where it gets screwy. He fully expected me to shout him out of the house and kick him out of my life. I didn't. Reason number one: I love him with everything I am. No matter how much he has hurt me, I cannot turn off that switch. It's not possible. I will love him until my dying day. Period. Reason two: Kids are still young, they need him here, with me. Reason three: The thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't believe. I know that's not unusual, though I also know it's not necessarily the norm. We have always been very open sexually although we have never actually acted on our desires to include others in the bedroom. So this is not exactly a new phenomenon, you know?

So... the revelation has resulted in the hysterical bonding, though it's not tapering off yet (we're going on a month now since the confession). The thing is, the affair is not over. He still lives with her most of the week and comes home to us two days a week. We have talked a LOT since the confession and he has told me nearly everything I want to know, including what he does to her the night or nights before. His dilemma is that he is in love with her, but not in love with me. He loves me deeply, will always love me, has made sure she understands that he will forever love me, but she does not know that he has resumed having sex with me. He is once again, caught in the middle, and I have become the OW for all intents and purposes. He does not know what to do because he cares for us both and making a decision to go to either of us means someone will get hurt. I completely understand, and I love him entirely too much to give him an ultimatum... this is his life, too, after all, and he gets to pick and choose who he wants to be with - that is NOT my decision. I would be willing to make this a threesome, but he says she is NOT that kind of person, she is much too straight-laced. He is well aware that she will have to find out about us having sex at some point, but doesn't know how just yet. He is still trying to process the fact I didn't kick him out and that knowing about her is erotic (that second part she doesn't know, either).

So the situation continues... sometimes I feel like I am turning the crank slowly on a jack-in-the-box, waiting for it to jump out at me. I have been through all sorts of stages: anger, sadness, bitterness, clarity, etc. and I know I will continue to cycle through those for a long time to come. Journaling helps, talking with my friend (when she has time) helps, and I have considered counseling but haven't been able to make that leap just yet. The both of us have agreed that we do not know what is going to happen... and we have discussed all the options available. Right now we are in a holding pattern.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

You need to figure out what you want first and then you can initiate your action plan. I think you are in the "fight for him" stage, putting down your values.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

You sure about that "fight for him" stage @Relationship Teacher? Lol. OP seems far too removed from the normal stuff we see around here to give such a tame diagnosis. Lol.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Sinner she is so straight laced that she allows herself to have sex with married men?

That doesn't gel for me, to be honest.

Counselling would be of minimal help because your husband is still cheating.

Keep with us on TAM, there will be plenty of advice of what you can do based on the collected experiences of other people who have been in your situation.

What has he told your children?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Putting aside the fact that you were turned on by him having sex with another woman, where is your self respect? After all these years with him raising a family, how can you just accept that you are now just another choice he can make in his life? I don't get it.

If you agree to an open marriage, where you and he can have sex with whomever you want, but are partners for life with each other, that's your personal decision. However, he not knowing who to choose between, you or her, is just not acceptable. His ass should be thrown out the door and you should be taking him to the cleaners in court. You are allowing yourself to be disrespected in the worst way. If you don't have respect for yourself, why should he?


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> @Sinner she is so straight laced that she allows herself to have sex with married men?
> 
> That doesn't gel for me, to be honest.
> 
> ...


Well, to be more succinct, she is not as open sexually as I am. Sex toys are a no, other people are a no, even just taking video is a no. She has had several very bad husbands and is rather fragile and broken so she really believes she's hit the lottery with my H. 

As for the kids, they do not know about her. I have no idea if my 16-yr-old suspects. H has a weird work schedule, he works Th-Su so his off days are M-W. He works far from home and has often stayed the night(s) either at work or a friend's to save money (and no, he has never cheated before this) so him being away from home days at a time is not unusual to the kids.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you thought about a polyamory? It seems you are already most of the way there except that the OW doesn't know.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

The Middleman said:


> Putting aside the fact that you were turned on by him having sex with another woman, where is your self respect? After all these years with him raising a family, how can you just accept that you are now just another choice he can make in his life? I don't get it.
> 
> If you agree to an open marriage, where you and he can have sex with whomever you want, but are partners for life with each other, that's your personal decision. However, him he not knowing who to choose between you and her is just not acceptable. His ass should be thrown out the door and you should be taking him to the cleaners in court. You are allowing yourself to be disrespected in the worst way. If you don't have respect for yourself, why should he?


Believe it or not, my self-respect is more or less intact. I am not under any illusions that people stay exactly the same throughout their entire lives. People change, evolve, whatever you want to call it. If he has outgrown me, so be it. What good would forcing him to stay with me do if he does not want to be here truly? It would be pointless. However, if he DOES want to stay with me, since it is ultimately what I want, why would I send him packing?

I feel that I was being disrespected when he was deceitful and evasive and hiding things from me. THAT I am dealing with. But he is now being open and honest with me. We are working through whatever issues we have between he and I. And other than his time being divided between the two of us, I am okay right now with him still seeing her. I am willing to wait this out if this turns out to be nothing more than an "oooh, shiny!" thing for him. He has been going through a difficult time in his life, I have not been as supportive as I should have, and to top everything off, he had a medical scare a little over a week ago. He is NOT a horrible person, he is HUMAN. Just because he screwed up is no reason to chuck a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY. Of course, that is just MO.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Have you thought about a polyamory? It seems you are already most of the way there except that the OW doesn't know.


Yes, that is one of our options. We are quite new to the concept, although we have talked the dirty bedroom talk for years. My friend that has been helping me through this is poly with her H, and has given me the rundown and articles to read. Of course she states emphatically that infidelity is a BAD place to start poly. And yes, it doesn't help that the OW doesn't seem to be open to that kind of thing. This is one of the many issues we have to start sorting through. It's incredibly complicated, or as I just like to say "it's all fvcked up"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sinner said:


> Well, to be more succinct, she is not as open sexually as I am. Sex toys are a no, other people are a no, even just taking video is a no. She has had several very bad husbands and is rather fragile and broken so she really believes she's hit the lottery with my H.
> 
> As for the kids, they do not know about her. I have no idea if my 16-yr-old suspects. H has a weird work schedule, he works Th-Su so his off days are M-W. He works far from home and has often stayed the night(s) either at work or a friend's to save money (and no, he has never cheated before this) so him being away from home days at a time is not unusual to the kids.


She has had several very bad husbands? 

That doesn't give her an excuse to take your husband!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Sinner said:


> Yes, that is one of our options. We are quite new to the concept, although we have talked the dirty bedroom talk for years. My friend that has been helping me through this is poly with her H, and has given me the rundown and articles to read. Of course she states emphatically that infidelity is a BAD place to start poly. And yes, it doesn't help that the OW doesn't seem to be open to that kind of thing. This is one of the many issues we have to start sorting through. It's incredibly complicated, or as I just like to say "it's all fvcked up"


Invite her over for dinner, explain your H is still sexual with you and that you don't see any reason for the arrangement to change, and woo her. Either she'll decide to give poly a try or she'll dump your H. Win either way.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> You sure about that "fight for him" stage @Relationship Teacher? Lol. OP seems far too removed from the normal stuff we see around here to give such a tame diagnosis. Lol.


Normal for who?

I've ran into this a number of times. It's where I tell them to not make decisions, until their lymbic activity moderates.

If you boil down Op's mindset, you find it similar to young love. The fantasy typically turns into a nightmare when thr hormones subside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> She has had several very bad husbands?
> 
> That doesn't give her an excuse to take your husband!


Of course not... I'm only saying that is possibly a reason she is not more adventurous sexually. She was abused by her last, I believe. She has not gone into specifics.



> Invite her over for dinner, explain your H is still sexual with you and that you don't see any reason for the arrangement to change, and woo her. Either she'll decide to give poly a try or she'll dump your H. Win either way.


LOL As tempting as that might be, I am not about to relieve my H of his own duty to own up to his own behaviors. Even if he is justified in having sex with his own freakin' wife.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Sinner said:


> He has been going through a difficult time in his life, I have not been as supportive as I should have, and to top everything off, he had a medical scare a little over a week ago. He is NOT a horrible person, he is HUMAN. Just because he screwed up is no reason to chuck a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY. Of course, that is just MO.


Sorry, I still don't get it. No one that I know personally would put up with this, unless they have no respect for themselves. Sorry, that's my opinion. You are allowing yourself to be abused with an ear to ear smile on your face.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Sinner said:


> Of course not... I'm only saying that is possibly a reason she is not more adventurous sexually. She was abused by her last, I believe. She has not gone into specifics.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL As tempting as that might be, I am not about to relieve my H of his own duty to own up to his own behaviors. Even if he is justified in having sex with his own freakin' wife.


Not using toys, allowing other people, and not allowing pics or video doesn't necessarily make her sexually less adventurous. I am a kinkster and very adventurous. However, I don't do toys (other than BDSM tools). I figure if I need a toy to get there, what the hell is the guy for? I can get off with a toy by myself. I don't care if a casual sex partner has other casual sex partners, but I would be damned before I share what is mine. And I wouldn't allow pics or video because, frankly, that sh!t can come back to bite. She's clearly got something going on because your H claims to be in love with her and they seem to have an active sex life on the nights he is at her house. Also, remember, whatever you know of her is coming from the mouth of a man who lied to you about their relationship for some time and has reasons to lie (overtly or by omission) now. He's not exactly a reliable source.

You have already relieved your H of his duty to you and the family. He is with his mistress more than he is home. What is that other than being relieved of his duties??

I'd bet my last $5 that she thinks the marriage is over and that he is her man, especially since he lives with her. As far as she knows, he left you for her. From her POV, he's not having sex with his own freakin wife because he is separated and on the way to a divorce. From her POV, every time he is with you, he is cheating on his primary relationship which is with her. This is part of why I encouraged you to talk to her. If she is unwilling to openly share, at least she would know the reality of her situation and be able to make an informed decision.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

That's okay, we can agree to disagree. I wouldn't exactly say I'm smiling, though, because this has shattered my world. Some days are okay, some days not. I waffle all the time as to my feelings about the whole thing. But right now I am not prepared to let him go. If that makes me foolish to everyone, so be it.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Not using toys, allowing other people, and not allowing pics or video doesn't necessarily make her sexually less adventurous. I am a kinkster and very adventurous. However, I don't do toys (other than BDSM tools). I figure if I need a toy to get there, what the hell is the guy for? I can get off with a toy by myself. I don't care if a casual sex partner has other casual sex partners, but I would be damned before I share what is mine. And I wouldn't allow pics or video because, frankly, that sh!t can come back to bite. She's clearly got something going on because your H claims to be in love with her and they seem to have an active sex life on the nights he is at her house. Also, remember, whatever you know of her is coming from the mouth of a man who lied to you about their relationship for some time and has reasons to lie (overtly or by omission) now. He's not exactly a reliable source.


Yes I realize he may not be completely reliable... however, I do know him better than anyone else on earth and I do believe he is being honest with me in what he tells me. Of course she's got it going on - she is gorgeous and I am not. And, "ooh, shiny!" That keeps him interested, for now. As for the newly "in love" thing, I know it's a terribly powerful drug that may or may not last or lead to something more meaningful.



> You have already relieved your H of his duty to you and the family. He is with his mistress more than he is home. What is that other than being relieved of his duties??


Actually when you calculate waking hours that he is at her house and here at home, they are nearly equal. Four of those five days he is at work, more than 10-hr shifts. 



> I'd bet my last $5 that she thinks the marriage is over and that he is her man, especially since he lives with her. As far as she knows, he left you for her. From her POV, he's not having sex with his own freakin wife because he is separated and on the way to a divorce. From her POV, every time he is with you, he is cheating on his primary relationship which is with her. This is part of why I encouraged you to talk to her. If she is unwilling to openly share, at least she would know the reality of her situation and be able to make an informed decision.


She encouraged him to confess to me. I have zero doubts she nagged him to tell me so that I would kick him out and she would be home free. He has already told her that's what he expected I'd do. (I've told him I believe that's what he WANTED. He denies this.) So once I DIDN'T kick him out, he let her know that I didn't. So I don't know that she's believing she's part way to being home free... I am a complication now.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

This blows my mind. You're one pragmatic gal. So, what is it that you want the most now? To open the relationship? To regain exclusivity? You're in some kind of limbo and it doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable for you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

rich84 said:


> This blows my mind. You're one pragmatic gal. So, what is it that you want the most now? To open the relationship? To regain exclusivity? You're in some kind of limbo and it doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She was in worse limbo before because she didn't know what the problem was for sure. At least now she knows what her limbo is. 

Maybe she is not too uncomfortable because knowing her husband as she does, she thinks the new shiny toy will not be so much fun after a short period, especially given her many limitations concerning sex. Maybe she has confidence that in the end he will realize what he is giving up. Maybe by then the OP will realize what she is keeping and won't want him anymore. 

It certainly is an unusual reaction for a BS, for sure.

Sinner, if your WS should give up the OW - do you think you will still consider the open marriage option?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sinner*
> Just because he screwed up is no reason to chuck a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY


*You are BOTH screwed up and you do not have a “perfectly good relationship”*

At first your husband had signs that his betrayal of the family had serious negative consequences. He could not finish the sex act with you and spent all his free time in the shop drinking.
You went “through all sorts of stages: anger, sadness, bitterness”

Then you both got the betrayal out in the open and you both compromised big time. You compromised because you want the support that your husband gives the children and you love the “…thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't believe”

Your husband got some of the guilt off of his back because he confessed to you his betrayal and you compromised and now want a threesome. . Now he can screw you and the fragile broken OW anytime he chooses. Now you call that “.a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY”? *RUBBISH!*

You both need to get all the help that you can so that you can stop fooling yourself that the sexual fantasies that you both have are going to lead to “…a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY” You may have some sexual excitement for a year or two but then comes the reality. The reality is that your threesome will deteriorate and your relationships will sour and become bitter and depressing.

The worst part of this is that you may think that your children are going to buy into your fantasies and threesome. NOT!!! *Your children will be much affected by the betrayal of their father, they will never accept the OW, and if you get into the threesome they will be disgusted by you.
*
Sinner, RUN RUN to get help for yourself. You know that your inappropriate thoughts of sex, including your “… thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't “believe” is very destructive to you and your family. STOP compromising so that you can try to fulfill your inappropriate sexual thoughts that are destructive!

Your choices are:

1	Keep trying to justify your husband’s actions and your inappropriate sexual thoughts.

2	Decide to deny your inappropriate actions and thoughts and commit to getting help and you taking appropriate actions.

Should you choose number one you and your children will suffer. If you choose number two then you can eventually get a lot better and be a source of strength for your children.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sinner*
> Just because he screwed up is no reason to chuck a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY


*You are BOTH screwed up and you do not have a “perfectly good relationship”*

At first your husband had signs that his betrayal of the family had serious negative consequences. He could not finish the sex act with you and spent all his free time in the shop drinking.
You went “through all sorts of stages: anger, sadness, bitterness”

Then you both got the betrayal out in the open and you both compromised big time. You compromised because you want the support that your husband gives the children and you love the “…thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't believe”

Your husband got some of the guilt off of his back because he confessed to you his betrayal and you compromised and now want a threesome. . Now he can screw you and the fragile broken OW anytime he chooses. Now you call that “.a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY”? *RUBBISH!*

You both need to get all the help that you can so that you can stop fooling yourself that the sexual fantasies that you both have are going to lead to “…a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY” You may have some sexual excitement for a year or two but then comes the reality. The reality is that your threesome will deteriorate and your relationships will sour and become bitter and depressing.

The worst part of this is that you may think that your children are going to buy into your fantasies and threesome. NOT!!! *Your children will be much affected by the betrayal of their father, they will never accept the OW, and if you get into the threesome they will be disgusted by you.
*
Sinner, RUN RUN to get help for yourself. You know that your inappropriate thoughts of sex, including your “… thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't believe" “ is very destructive to you and your family. STOP compromising so that you can try to fulfill your inappropriate sexual thoughts that are destructive!

Your choices are:

1	Keep trying to justify your husband’s actions and your inappropriate sexual thoughts.

2	Decide to deny your inappropriate actions and thoughts and commit to getting help and you taking appropriate actions.

Should you choose number one you and your children will suffer. If you choose number two then you can eventually get a lot better and be a source of strength for your children.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Hi all... I am new to the forum...


Welcome. 😐


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Not using toys, allowing other people, and not allowing pics or video doesn't necessarily make her sexually less adventurous. I am a kinkster and very adventurous. However, I don't do toys (other than BDSM tools). I figure if I need a toy to get there, what the hell is the guy for? I can get off with a toy by myself. I don't care if a casual sex partner has other casual sex partners, but I would be damned before I share what is mine. And I wouldn't allow pics or video because, frankly, that sh!t can come back to bite. She's clearly got something going on because your H claims to be in love with her and they seem to have an active sex life on the nights he is at her house. Also, remember, whatever you know of her is coming from the mouth of a man who lied to you about their relationship for some time and has reasons to lie (overtly or by omission) now. He's not exactly a reliable source.
> 
> You have already relieved your H of his duty to you and the family. He is with his mistress more than he is home. What is that other than being relieved of his duties??
> 
> I'd bet my last $5 that she thinks the marriage is over and that he is her man, especially since he lives with her. As far as she knows, he left you for her. From her POV, he's not having sex with his own freakin wife because he is separated and on the way to a divorce. From her POV, every time he is with you, he is cheating on his primary relationship which is with her. This is part of why I encouraged you to talk to her. If she is unwilling to openly share, at least she would know the reality of her situation and be able to make an informed decision.


I agree with this in every way. The OW is getting your husband's version of your story, which is that he is leaving you. He is effectively living with her and I'm certain she believes that your hubs is divorcing you.

I'm also a kinkster, and I don' t use toys other than bdsm gear, and I will never allow pics or video of myself to be taken...once that stuff is out there, it's out of your control forever.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, it takes more than sex to build a relationship. @Sinner, you could be the more adventurous one sexually, but he could find more fulfillment with her emotionally. Mid-life with acting like a white knight, his ego and plus the rush of the infatuation stage of any new relationship could keep him there for weeks to possibly a few years. At the worst, you could be living in a forced open marriage for the next 2 or 3 years.

Trust me, when things are on the precipice and he has to make a choice between the two of you, he will. You have not placed him there yet so he does not have to face any real choices. He is safe so he will go on because I am sure he knows what his choice is but does not want to make one.

Anyways, it could also go in the other direction, the longer he stays with her, the more that emotional bond deepens. You may be correct that he will come to senses, but you do not know that for sure. How do the children feel about him cheating on you? If he does leave you, would you let him go if he made his choice and keep in mind you will have to accept it no matter what.

But while you keep allowing this ongoing situation, there is no 100% on how his relationship with her will develop.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

rich84 said:


> This blows my mind. You're one pragmatic gal. So, what is it that you want the most now? To open the relationship? To regain exclusivity? You're in some kind of limbo and it doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ultimately, if I had my way, I'd want to go back to the way we were... that he is mine exclusively. We had never invited anyone into the bedroom because of this very thing... that attachments could form and things would go sideways. If he were to stay with me, be mine exclusively, and fall back in love with me, that would be the ONLY real scenario where I "win." Every other scenario we discussed, I somehow "lose." And yet, the one in which I "win" has the slimmest chance of actually happening. So I have to prepare myself for whatever happens. And I am doing just that. I am not wearing my wedding/engagement rings anymore, for example. And thinking of what we will do if we do split. 

Please don't confuse my cavalier attitude with being comfortable with this whole thing. It has devastated me. It has ruined my life. I have been very near the brink many times and if you were to read my journals, you could see exactly how it has affected me. Some days I'm okay. Some days I need scraping up off the floor. But I am trying my best to deal the only ways I can.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

As a young youth I frequently jogged past an ugly statue of a local pioneer. He once was revered by the people who contracted to have his image bronzed for posterity.

Decades later, new information was revealed that he was not such a good person and certainly no hero.

For this reason, they moved his statue on two occasions; it ended up in a small park.

I always thought to myself.....what if I jerked this [worth-less] guy over and dragged him down to the river...with my jeep.

What ever "real value" this guy had, has been long forgotten. His mis-deeds clearly outweighed any intrinsic remembrance.

I never acted on my thoughts.

You are in the same mind-set as I was. The above quoted bronzed man was no hero and deserved no pedestal to rest his [non-laurels] onto.

Your husband was a hero, until he wasn't.

Your goal: 1) win him back, with the love and respect restored.

You are playing the "Pick Me" game. He knows you and the OW love him. He sticks with her, letting the pigeons crap on your flesh image. He picks her over you.

Solution: He must pick one of you.

Pull down his corroded statue. Let him stand up on his own and walk to the women that he prefers. On the pedestal, he is not yours. 

Why should he take any action? You are tolerating his terrible behavior....with little of no consequences.

Kick him out permanently. Cut off all communication with him. Do the 180 program.

You do not have his heart now, do you? Without a heart, a statue rings hollow when you tap it. The husband that fills your mind has left Topeka, and went to Dodge City. He is dodging you, big time.

People here will tell you that you must be prepared to lose him if you want to win him back. He has the [lose....loser] part completed. Complete the logic in this advice. Let him go...


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

mary35 said:


> She was in worse limbo before because she didn't know what the problem was for sure. At least now she knows what her limbo is.


YESSSS.



> Maybe she is not too uncomfortable because knowing her husband as she does, she thinks the new shiny toy will not be so much fun after a short period, especially given her many limitations concerning sex. Maybe she has confidence that in the end he will realize what he is giving up. Maybe by then the OP will realize what she is keeping and won't want him anymore.
> 
> It certainly is an unusual reaction for a BS, for sure.


This is what I am desperately praying for... that the shiny toy will lose its luster. However, I do know what I am keeping, and despite his flaws, I love him with everything that I am. Until that love dies, I will always want him by my side, whether that is naive or foolish, or both.



> Sinner, if your WS should give up the OW - do you think you will still consider the open marriage option?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know. This is all new and confusing to me. It's an incredibly difficult thing with the kids here, as I will point out in another reply to another poster. And as I have always maintained, sometimes fantasies are better left as fantasies.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Mr Blunt said:


> *You are BOTH screwed up and you do not have a “perfectly good relationship”*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I disagree. I think this is what love and honesty looks like in the absence of the prevailing emotional response. Robot level logic and pragmatism. I just don't hear what she wants. I have confidence she can get it though! 


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> *You are BOTH screwed up and you do not have a “perfectly good relationship”*


Yes, you are correct, we are both fvcked up and we readily admit that. And yes, our relationship is quite damaged at this point... but up until this past year, our relationship was better than most. And getting back to some semblance of that former state is NOT out of the realm of possibility.



> At first your husband had signs that his betrayal of the family had serious negative consequences. He could not finish the sex act with you and spent all his free time in the shop drinking.
> You went “through all sorts of stages: anger, sadness, bitterness”


The sexual difficulties started long before they were ever more than acquaintances. It had nothing to do with the affair, but more than likely with the fact he has an unrepaired hernia. He still has the problem, sometimes with her, even. But yes, the distancing from me had everything to do with what he had done and his guilt and his fear of hurting me if he came clean.



> Then you both got the betrayal out in the open and you both compromised big time. You compromised because you want the support that your husband gives the children and you love the “…thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't believe”
> 
> Your husband got some of the guilt off of his back because he confessed to you his betrayal and you compromised and now want a threesome. . Now he can screw you and the fragile broken OW anytime he chooses. Now you call that “.a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY”? *RUBBISH!*


NO, I call it quite fvcked up and I readily admit it. I can't help the way I feel, and I have NO idea if it's a temporary thing or a permanent thing. The relationship my H and I have, aside from our current fvcked up situation, is a terrific one. We are BFFs. He is able to tell me things he could never tell her. We know each other better than anyone else on this entire earth. We are trying to sort out our feelings, our situation, and what to do and where to go from here. We are trying to be, as another poster said, pragmatic about the whole thing. When I said a "perfectly good relationship and family" I am referring to what we've had for 27 years. I can't just throw that all out the window because of this screw up. If it eventually comes to that, then I will have to deal with that. But I can't chuck it immediately... because what we've had for 27 years is worth trying to regain. 



> You both need to get all the help that you can so that you can stop fooling yourself that the sexual fantasies that you both have are going to lead to “…a perfectly good relationship and FAMILY” You may have some sexual excitement for a year or two but then comes the reality. The reality is that your threesome will deteriorate and your relationships will sour and become bitter and depressing.
> 
> The worst part of this is that you may think that your children are going to buy into your fantasies and threesome. NOT!!! *Your children will be much affected by the betrayal of their father, they will never accept the OW, and if you get into the threesome they will be disgusted by you.
> *
> ...


Absolutely. The kids are one of the things that makes this so difficult. Right now, there is no reason for them to know what is going on. If we decide to split, then yes, it will be devastating to them, especially to the 16-yr-old, who will probably end up resenting or hating my H for the betrayal. This is a BIG reason for me to fight to keep my H and sweep it all under the rug. It breaks my heart to think of them hurting in any way from all of this. This whole threesome thing is not a for-sure thing. It's an option... albeit not one that would be easy to execute, because I would NOT necessarily want the kids to know about it. And I am under no illusions that threesomes or open relationships would create anything perfect... hell, marriage itself doesn't even guarantee that.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sinner said:


> Ultimately, if I had my way, I'd want to go back to the way we were... that he is mine exclusively. We had never invited anyone into the bedroom because of this very thing... that attachments could form and things would go sideways. If he were to stay with me, be mine exclusively, and fall back in love with me, that would be the ONLY real scenario where I "win." Every other scenario we discussed, I somehow "lose." And yet, the one in which I "win" has the slimmest chance of actually happening. So I have to prepare myself for whatever happens. And I am doing just that. I am not wearing my wedding/engagement rings anymore, for example. And thinking of what we will do if we do split.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't confuse my cavalier attitude with being comfortable with this whole thing. It has devastated me. It has ruined my life. I have been very near the brink many times and if you were to read my journals, you could see exactly how it has affected me. Some days I'm okay. Some days I need scraping up off the floor. But I am trying my best to deal the only ways I can.



It sounds like you have a firm grasp on reality. There's no real incentive for him to decide though. He's cake eating because you're not pressing him into a corner. I think the only person that suffers in the meantime is you. Your kids will figure it out if they haven't already. Have you considered exposure and just filing? He will either see the light and return or be relieved that you made the decision for him. He can't fall back in love with you while he's still infatuated with her. 



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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Well, it takes more than sex to build a relationship. @Sinner, you could be the more adventurous one sexually, but he could find more fulfillment with her emotionally. Mid-life with acting like a white knight, his ego and plus the rush of the infatuation stage of any new relationship could keep him there for weeks to possibly a few years. At the worst, you could be living in a forced open marriage for the next 2 or 3 years.
> 
> Trust me, when things are on the precipice and he has to make a choice between the two of you, he will. You have not placed him there yet so he does not have to face any real choices. He is safe so he will go on because I am sure he knows what his choice is but does not want to make one.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, you are correct. I have no idea how this will go. We are taking one day at a time. I know he is hoping that one of us will make the decision for him - like if I ask for a divorce, or if she finds out he is having sex with me and ends it. It is cowardly, we both know that. But he loves and cares for us both and doesn't want anyone to get hurt. He has to sort out how he feels and what he REALLY wants. I am trying to give him time to figure that out. 

The kids don't know. And there really isn't a reason to tell them right now. And yes, if he chooses her, I have to let him go. I have told him already that I don't want him to stay with me and always wonder "what if." There could be a future for the two of them, I have no way of gauging that. Only he can determine whether what they have is worth leaving me for. That's not a decision I can force him to make, he has to make it on his own. It's like forcing a smoker to quit smoking... they have to do it for themselves.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

@Sinner. If you do open the relationship, would you be okay with taking the back seat? You have a longer bond with him and he does not want to throw that away and currently, he is in the honeymoon phase with her and his thoughts will mostly revolve around her. In some ways, she is already part of your sex life as he will have an increase in sex drive due to the release of hormones.

Let me ask you this, would he be okay with you exploring other men for when he is with her, would you be okay with it? Would you have an issue if he would be a hypocrite if he told you he would leave you should you sleep with other men? I am rather curious if he is willing to be okay if you also live by the same rules as himself? If he is, perhaps an open marriage could work. What happens if they break up and you are also having another relationship with another man and he tells you to end it because since he is no longer dating another at that point, could you give it up without resentment on your own end if you fell in love with someone else like him, afterall, you did not make him leave his partner? I would communicate all boundaries.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

rich84 said:


> I disagree. I think this is what love and honesty looks like in the absence of the prevailing emotional response. Robot level logic and pragmatism. I just don't hear what she wants. I have confidence she can get it though!


Thank you for this comment. We really are trying to sort things without the emotions in the way.



> It sounds like you have a firm grasp on reality. There's no real incentive for him to decide though. He's cake eating because you're not pressing him into a corner. I think the only person that suffers in the meantime is you. Your kids will figure it out if they haven't already. Have you considered exposure and just filing? He will either see the light and return or be relieved that you made the decision for him. He can't fall back in love with you while he's still infatuated with her.


Yes I know. I've been giving him time to think. And we talk a LOT. And right now, with me being super-sexually charged because of this whole thing (and the hysterical bonding), we're both kind of getting what we want... he gets us both and I get to live out a fantasy vicariously thru him. But I don't know how soon that could crash for me. I could come down off this high next week and tell him to pound sand. I don't know.

I'm certain I haven't forced the issue of making a choice yet because I am frightened it will not end in my favor. And I don't want that to happen, not only for my own sake, but because of the kids. But I may get to that point... I don't know. Right now it's one foot in front of the other, and breathe.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Hi all... I am new to the forum and new to infidelity. I don't specifically have questions at this point and haven't delved enough into all the threads here yet, but just wanted to put my story out there and see what people's thoughts are.
> 
> Here goes (I apologize in advance for the length):
> 
> ...


why on earth are you willing to be the OW? He is cake eating big time and you are letting him. Honey you are not loving him by letting him walk all over you and the OW. He is like an unruly teenager who needs some loving discipline to see what life, responsibilities and love is truly about. You need to stop this carry on.
This is counter intuitive to everything you feel but
1. do the 180 on him, if he wants the OW let him. You don't need a man who is willing to treat you like this. There are many men out there who know how to treat a woman with love and respect. He is not respecting you and the sooner you get this the better for you
2. Go see a lawyer and see what your options are. You can co-parent the kids, he can still be their father.
3. Tell the OW that you have been having sex with him and after all it is your conjungal right to, she is the odd one out, blow up his and her world with this, he does not deserve your loyalty at all - YOU are in a fog
4. tell your family, friends, all who will listen what he is doing. He is in a fog and when he sees he is about to lose his friend, wife, lover and kids, maybe he will come out of it, as it is he has the best of both worlds as you are acting like a door mat. have some self respect.
5. Go to counselling to see why you would allow yourself to be used in this way, why you have no boundaries, why you are willing to take crumbs from a man who you have given 28 years of your life to. 
6. Remember you are teaching your kids that this is ok, it is ok to be ****ed over by their spouse and let them come back for more. Find your righteous anger and use it. You deserve way more than this.

STOP HAVING SEX WITH HIM, STOP ENTERTAINING HIM, only matters to deal with the kids. He cannot come and go as he pleases to the house, only by appointment.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Thank you for this comment. We really are trying to sort things without the emotions in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will not end in your favour if you continue acting this way, he can do what he wants and still have you, he has no respect for you and you have no respect for yourself. Do you always want to be his seconds?


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> @Sinner. If you do open the relationship, would you be okay with taking the back seat? You have a longer bond with him and he does not want to throw that away and currently, he is in the honeymoon phase with her and his thoughts will mostly revolve around her. In some ways, she is already part of your sex life as he will have an increase in sex drive due to the release of hormones.
> 
> Let me ask you this, would he be okay with you exploring other men for when he is with her, would you be okay with it? Would you have an issue if he would be a hypocrite if he told you he would leave you should you sleep with other men? I am rather curious if he is willing to be okay if you also live by the same rules as himself? If he is, perhaps an open marriage could work. What happens if they break up and you are also having another relationship with another man and he tells you to end it because since he is no longer dating another at that point, could you give it up without resentment on your own end if you fell in love with someone else like him, afterall, you did not make him leave his partner? I would communicate all boundaries.


Yes. He is well aware he cannot ask me to be faithful at this point, that it would be ridiculously hypocritical of him. He has been actively encouraging me to seek out others, to join dating sites, or whatever. All I've managed to do so far is to chat with strangers online in chat rooms, which always ends up in some sort of cybersex. While interesting, it's not exactly the same as meeting someone in person and forging some sort of relationship. Right now I am a SAHM who homeschools the kids, so my interaction with the outside world is limited at best... so online seemed feasible... but truly, it's not unless you start somewhere other than booty calls and cybersex. So my approach has kind of turned into, whoever is supposed to be in my life, will come into my life. I am open to the possibility, at least, but I am not really rushing out to find a replacement right now. You know? My life is complicated enough as it is.

As for the rest of your questions, I have no idea. That's not something I can answer until I'm there. One of the big complications is that because we've been together so long, we both feel that each other is "mine." So he still has the mindset that I am "his" even though he knows he can't demand that at all. And yes, it would actually break his heart if I found someone else. He can't deny that, despite it being hypocritical. It's hard to let go when you have a connection as deep as we do... which is, I think, a big reason why we haven't chucked it all yet. It's SO fvcked up and SO complicated and there are NO easy answers.

And I appreciate you all giving me feedback. It helps to sort through things and further explain my POV. It's also the reason I journal about my feelings.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Who in your families know what is going on?


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sinner said:


> Thank you for this comment. We really are trying to sort things without the emotions in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The fact that this excites you sexually is muddying the waters. By getting the replay of his sexual encounters with the OW and bonding over the excitement that brings, you are being a third participant in this affair. There's some "power" or maybe control in that. It's weak leverage to keep him engaged somewhat back at home. If his behavior repulsed you, on the other hand, it would be a different situation entirely. And it might bring him to a decision point. My point is that you're acting out of fear, and this fear may mask your true feelings about him banging his side chick. So, if there was zero danger in him leaving you and he still loved you numero uno, but he was sleeping with side strange on the regular, would you still be so turned on? 


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> Who in your families know what is going on?


None. Right now it is no one's business.



rich84 said:


> The fact that this excites you sexually is muddying the waters. By getting the replay of his sexual encounters with the OW and bonding over the excitement that brings, you are being a third participant in this affair. There's some "power" or maybe control in that. It's weak leverage to keep him engaged somewhat back at home. If his behavior repulsed you, on the other hand, it would be a different situation entirely. And it might bring him to a decision point. My point is that you're acting out of fear, and this fear may mask your true feelings about him banging his side chick. So, if there was zero danger in him leaving you and he still loved you numero uno, but he was sleeping with side strange on the regular, would you still be so turned on?


Probably? I don't know. I can only really speak to what I'm actually going through.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You sure he's your husband?

Because it sounds like you're his side chick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm skeptical that you can ever go back to "normal" now. He knows you're ok with sharing, you're even turned on by it. You admit that him having sex with any other woman is a turn on. He's getting his life partner and family as well as his infatuation. He's at the epicenter of two women jockeying for his sexual attention. If you're waiting on the new and shiny to wear off, then I hate to break it to you - there is lots of new and shiny out there. What's to prevent him from just finding another when this one dulls? Zero consequences. Your lack of boundaries was the signing of a consent form for an open marriage. But that may be ok for you. 


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

rich84 said:


> I'm skeptical that you can ever go back to "normal" now. He knows you're ok with sharing, you're even turned on by it. You admit that him having sex with any other woman is a turn on. He's getting his life partner and family as well as his infatuation. He's at the epicenter of two women jockeying for his sexual attention. If you're waiting on the new and shiny to wear off, then I hate to break it to you - there is lots of new and shiny out there. What's to prevent him from just finding another when this one dulls? Zero consequences. Your lack of boundaries was the signing of a consent form for an open marriage. But that may be ok for you.


You are probably right. He is at least deeply remorseful that he has hurt me and put us into this situation. It has forced us to take a hard look at where we are at and where we want to go. And it has forced him to come to grips with the fact that he has given in to temptation where he had always held himself in high regard for never doing it before. I don't know if that realization means he will be more likely or less likely to do it in the future.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sinner said:


> You are probably right. He is at least deeply remorseful that he has hurt me and put us into this situation.


Really?

Where is he tonight?



Sinner said:


> It has forced us to take a hard look at where we are at and where we want to go. And it has forced him to come to grips with the fact that he has given in to temptation where he had always held himself in high regard for never doing it before. I don't know if that realization means he will be more likely or less likely to do it in the future.


I can tell you.

It ain't less.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> You sure he's your husband?
> 
> Because it sounds like you're his side chick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has already admitted that its like she is the OW now. And maybe in a messed up way - there is some satisfaction in that fact for her at the moment. There was a movie with Merle Streep and Alec Baldwin - "It's Complicated" where the ex-wife started having sex with her ex-husband who was currently married to the young OW and trying to conceive a baby. In the movie she talks about the tables being turned and how she was currently the OW and how she derived some satisfaction from doing to the OW what the OW did to her.

We all deal with things in our own way and in our own time. But most of our learning, if we admit it, comes from making mistakes and poor decisions - and then living with the fall out - and/or, as in this case, from others making poor decisions that affect our life and then living with the fall out they cause. Sinner, while your way in dealing with your husband's infidelity right now is surely unconventional - there is a small part of me (the devil part of me) that thinks, good for you, giving it back to the OW and making your husband feel really confused! I think you are trying to be analytical about what you are doing. I hope you are reading and thinking through everyone's posts here in an effort to see more clearly so you can make your way through all of this mess that your husband created in the best way possible for you. I think you are being realistic - and recognize that what are feeling right now, may not be what you feel tomorrow. At least I hope that is what you are doing and that you are not acting ONLY out of the sheer fear of losing him. I think that is what a lot of people think is happening - that you are acting out of fear. Having gone through an extremely uncharacteristic period of being extremely sexually HD awhile back, I can almost picture myself responding the same way you are - being turned on, at least for awhile. But I also know myself well enough to know it would not last long - and anger and resentment would eventually set in. But that is me. 

I do want to add here that, unlike the movie "It's complicated", YOU are doing nothing wrong with how you are handling this. You are not cheating when you have sex with your husband. YOU are married to your husband - so you have every right for him to be at your house and to have sex with him if that is what you choose to do. He is still your husband! Your husband and the OW are in the wrong - as far as who is cheating and who is not. 

However, just as Merle Streep's character in the movie, in the end, realized she wanted much more from a relationship than to share her ex, and that the fact that he was willing to cheat again showed her he truly had a character flaw and she would never be able to trust him even if he gave up the young wife/former OW, and came back to her - you very well may come to that conclusion too about your husband and not be OK with that conclusion. 

Whatever you decide or conclusions you reach - my hope for you is that from this confusing and painful period in your life, you will grow and learn enough about yourself and what you want and need in a relationship - so that you can move forward in the best way possible to help you obtain those things.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Thank you mary35, you made me cry. You are being much kinder than some on this thread. 

I think you are right, that I am trying to look at this from all angles and as realistically as possible. I am all too aware that I am coming off a 10-month abstinence stint combined with hysterical bonding as well as a good bit of emotional re-bonding as well - since during the time he was distancing himself from me, I was never quite sure if it was because of someone else or if he just hated me. I know it's very likely this could fade and I could completely change my mind on what I want. I do not know what is going to happen. I am trying to cope the best I can right now, and no it is not completely rooted in fear.

I don't expect anyone to understand where I'm at or why I feel the way I do - I don't always understand it myself. I am a work in progress and am subject to change at any moment. My life has been completely obliterated and now I have to reassess everything, EVERYTHING in my life and rearrange the pieces until they fit into something resembling satisfaction for me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Thank you mary35, you made me cry. You are being much kinder than some on this thread.
> 
> I think you are right, that I am trying to look at this from all angles and as realistically as possible. I am all too aware that I am coming off a 10-month abstinence stint combined with hysterical bonding as well as a good bit of emotional re-bonding as well - since during the time he was distancing himself from me, I was never quite sure if it was because of someone else or if he just hated me. I know it's very likely this could fade and I could completely change my mind on what I want. I do not know what is going to happen. I am trying to cope the best I can right now, and no it is not completely rooted in fear.
> 
> I don't expect anyone to understand where I'm at or why I feel the way I do - I don't always understand it myself. I am a work in progress and am subject to change at any moment. My life has been completely obliterated and now I have to reassess everything, EVERYTHING in my life and rearrange the pieces until they fit into something resembling satisfaction for me.


I'm going to say this just as kindly as I can --

You are confusing the reality of what had previously been nothing more than a sexual fantasy made manifest w/ the fact that your husband is actively -- and, to be honest, rather unremorsefully -- engaging in behavior that has the potential to result in the end of your marriage and destruction of your family unit.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sinner said:


> Thank you mary35, you made me cry. You are being much kinder than some on this thread.
> 
> I think you are right, that I am trying to look at this from all angles and as realistically as possible. I am all too aware that I am coming off a 10-month abstinence stint combined with hysterical bonding as well as a good bit of emotional re-bonding as well - since during the time he was distancing himself from me, I was never quite sure if it was because of someone else or if he just hated me. I know it's very likely this could fade and I could completely change my mind on what I want. I do not know what is going to happen. I am trying to cope the best I can right now, and no it is not completely rooted in fear.
> 
> I don't expect anyone to understand where I'm at or why I feel the way I do - I don't always understand it myself. I am a work in progress and am subject to change at any moment. My life has been completely obliterated and now I have to reassess everything, EVERYTHING in my life and rearrange the pieces until they fit into something resembling satisfaction for me.


(Handing you tissues and a big hug)

You are handling an incredibly difficult situation, the best way you know how to at the moment. You have been knocked for a loop. Give yourself time to figure things out. One day it will become clear and you will see how the pieces need to fit for you to find satisfaction. In the mean time - work on building yourself up. You deserve to be loved, to be respected, to be happy, and to find satisfaction in marriage. Don't let ANYONE - including yourself - tell you differently!


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

It's not so black and white, Gus. I wish it were. He LOVES her. He has to decide if she means enough to him to break up this family unit. I don't envy the place that he has put himself into. Does he stay with her, who he is in love with, which could potentially be good for him, but bad for me and our family and all the crap that goes along with divorce? Or does he stay with me, who he is NOT in love with but instead has a lifelong bond of enduring love, destroy the OW's life, keep the family intact and possibly wonder forever after if it would've been better with the OW? That's not an easy decision, especially considering there is no guarantee that EITHER scenario would work out in the end.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sinner said:


> *It's not so black and white, Gus.* I wish it were. He LOVES her. He has to decide if she means enough to him to break up this family unit. I don't envy the place that he has put himself into. Does he stay with her, who he is in love with, which could potentially be good for him, but bad for me and our family and all the crap that goes along with divorce? Or does he stay with me, who he is NOT in love with but instead has a lifelong bond of enduring love, destroy the OW's life, keep the family intact and possibly wonder forever after if it would've been better with the OW? That's not an easy decision, especially considering there is no guarantee that EITHER scenario would work out in the end.


It really is, and I'm sorry that you don't see that.

_And_ that you deserve better.

Want him back?

_Let him go._

Do that by implementing the 180 (read up on that) and filing for divorce.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

I will read up on 180, as admittedly, I have no idea what that is. thanks.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sinner said:


> I will read up on 180, as admittedly, I have no idea what that is. thanks.


https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Just read that one, and another that elaborated. I am, actually, doing quite a number of those on the list. Maybe about 5 or so I really am not. 

As much as I would like to stay with him and work things out, I am trying my hardest to imagine my life without him. I have stopped wearing my rings, and have started to adopt an "I'm single" mindset (slowly, of course, as after 28 years, change is difficult). I let him know that as well... that it does me no good to sit and wait on an eventuality that may never happen. I have to prepare myself to move on from him, and I really am trying to head that way. I am not grovelling at his feet, and I am not begging him to stay. I am, however, taking advantage of the sex... I know that is one thing I need to work on.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sinner said:


> It's not so black and white, Gus. I wish it were. He LOVES her. He has to decide if she means enough to him to break up this family unit. I don't envy the place that he has put himself into. Does he stay with her, who he is in love with, which could potentially be good for him, but bad for me and our family and all the crap that goes along with divorce? Or does he stay with me, who he is NOT in love with but instead has a lifelong bond of enduring love, destroy the OW's life, keep the family intact and possibly wonder forever after if it would've been better with the OW? That's not an easy decision, especially considering there is no guarantee that EITHER scenario would work out in the end.


No its not an easy decision he has to make. And its a sucky place he has PUT ALL THREE OF YOU IN (not to mention the children). And there is definitely no easy path for YOU to take to move out of the place he put you into. I don't envy the place he put YOU into. This was not your doing nor your choice - yet you get to deal with the fall out. I understand that you love him and have empathy for him. You have loved him and been married to him for a long time. Your history together does not get erased because he cheated on you. But at least he is dealing with the fall out of his own choices, things he could have controlled. You are not. Its OK to have love and empathy for him - just make sure you have as much love and empathy (if not more) for yourself as you do for him! YOU are the one who deserves it. 

Do you really believe he loves her and is not in love with you? It seems to me that he is treating her (the one he says he loves) the same way he treated you (the one he says he is not in love with) - lying to her and misleading her. What is his definition of love? What is your definition of love? If its really true that he loves her and not you - how do you feel about that? Is that something you can live with long term should you stay together - not having him be in love with you?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sinner said:


> Absolutely, you are correct. I have no idea how this will go. We are taking one day at a time. I know he is hoping that one of us will make the decision for him - like if I ask for a divorce, or if she finds out he is having sex with me and ends it. It is cowardly, we both know that. But *he loves and cares for us both and doesn't want anyone to get hurt. *He has to sort out how he feels and what he REALLY wants. I am trying to give him time to figure that out.
> 
> The kids don't know. And there really isn't a reason to tell them right now. And yes, if he chooses her, I have to let him go. I have told him already that I don't want him to stay with me and always wonder "what if." There could be a future for the two of them, I have no way of gauging that. Only he can determine whether what they have is worth leaving me for. That's not a decision I can force him to make, he has to make it on his own. It's like forcing a smoker to quit smoking... they have to do it for themselves.


How old are you and your husband and the OW?

He might say that he does not want anyone to get hurt, but that sounds like nonsense.

What he is doing is the normal thing that cheaters do, they try to keep both people because it's a HUGE turn on and emotional boost to have two women fighting over them. What a lucky guy.

He's not worried about hurting anyone, he's already hurting you terribly. And he is hurting the affair partner. But he does not care really because he's getting what he needs.

You say that you will not interfere with his affair because he's a grown up and can do as he pleases.

What about you? It's not all about what he wants. It's also about what you want. What are your boundaries? Where do you draw the line with what you will allow in your life? Stop thinking so much about protecting him and think about yourself.

How old is the OW? If she can still get pregnant, she just might 'accidently' do that go try to win her imagined fight to win him permanently. How would you feel if that happened? Would you welcome the baby if this happened? How much of your time are you willing to put in to help him raise his love-child? How would you explain that to your children?

Does this woman have any children?

Also, the OW is a woman who has had several husbands. While your husband is telling you that she is a sexual prude, I'm to sure I would believe that. She's had several husbands. She apparently is lose enough sexually that she hooks up with guys. Do you actually know what her sexual history is? Not the one your husband tells you. I mean her real history? When it comes to STDs, you are getting exposed to every germ that she's been exposed to in her life. The chance of you coming down with an STD is pretty high. You really need to get see a doctor and get tested. And as long as your husband keeps this cheating up, you need to be tested every month or so. Welcome to the real world of promiscuity. Your husband has brought it home to you.

How much of your marital assets is your husband spending on this woman? 

One of the things that I have always believed about love and marriage is that to be a good spouse, we do not enable our spouse to be the worse person that they can be. We set boundaries and standards for ourselves and by extension for our spouse.

I would never enable a spouse who is an alcoholic or a drug addict; or one who become a free loader; or many other things... why? Because I will not enable them to be their worse self.

You believe that that he can do what he wants with his life, even if that means hurting you and your children. You are enabling him to do this. You are making excuses for him--his father's illnesses, his mortality, etc, etc. 

Sounds a lot like talking to the wife of a fall-down drunk.

If you love someone, you don't enable bad behavior.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Does anyone have the link to that post about letting them go? I thought it was very well articulated. That may help provide some clarity to the OP.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sinner,

There is a book that would help you quite a bit: "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley.

It explains what is going on in your husband's head. That it's not real because he has you too. It has to do with brain chemistry. With 2 women filling his emotional needs, he is high as a kite on things like dopamine, oxytocin and other feel good hormones. 

If one of you pull out of his life, he will crash and start to see reality. If the OW was left to meet his needs on her own, it would not be long before he started to see her without his brain chemistry induced rose colored glasses. 

You are helping him continue the affair and helping him continue to feel in love with her.

You are enabling the affair and the only reason that the affair is working for him. Because you are enabling the whole thing.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> It really is, and I'm sorry that you don't see that.
> 
> _And_ that you deserve better.
> 
> ...


In all fairness Gus - Letting him go does not guarantee she will get him back.

She needs to let him go because she realizes she wants and deserves something better and he is not offering her that something better!!!


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

> Do you really believe he loves her and is not in love with you? It seems to me that he is treating her (the one he says he loves) the same way he treated you (the one he says he is not in love with) - lying to her and misleading her. What is his definition of love? What is your definition of love? If its really true that he loves her and not you - how do you feel about that? Is that something you can live with long term should you stay together - not having him be in love with you?


This is a tough one. He is conflicted about deceiving her as well. He is in a state of limbo trying to determine what he wants, so he keeps the status quo with us both for the time being. I totally understand all the implications of that... 

His definition of being "in love" differs from mine and this is something this whole thing has revealed. He equates it to being infatuation or new love, while I don't. therefore he is also telling me I deserve someone who will love me in the same way that I love. At the moment I am saying I would take his half-hearted love over anyone else's whole-hearted love. I do know that's an awful thing to believe, and that it isn't fair to me, yadda yadda. But it's how I feel right now. More than likely I will come to my senses and agree that I deserve more.

And sure, I agree I am enabling. Right now I'm still processing and I don't want to do anything rash at this very point in time. As I've said before, it's likely to change. EVERYTHING is up in the air right now.

I am 44, my H is 51 and has had a vasectomy. The OW is 49 and has no children... always wanted them. Yes we need to be tested and it is something we plan to do.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mary35 said:


> In all fairness Gus - Letting him go does not guarantee she will get him back.
> 
> She needs to let him go because she realizes she wants and deserves something better and he is not offering her that something better!!!


Absolutely agree. Didn't go into that because let's be honest, she's facing enough of an uphill battle getting to the point where -- regardless of the reason for it -- she's ready to let him go.

The point of the 180 is to detach.

Period.

And, though it will, often enough, result in a wayward spouse coming back and recommitting to his or her family, that outcome isn't guaranteed.

Still, _do it because it's what *needs* to be done._


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sinner said:


> This is a tough one. He is conflicted about deceiving her as well. He is in a state of limbo trying to determine what he wants, so he keeps the status quo with us both for the time being. I totally understand all the implications of that...
> 
> His definition of being "in love" differs from mine and this is something this whole thing has revealed. * He equates it to being infatuation or new love, *while I don't. therefore he is also telling me I deserve someone who will love me in the same way that I love. At the moment I am saying I would take his half-hearted love over anyone else's whole-hearted love. I do know that's an awful thing to believe, and that it isn't fair to me, yadda yadda. But it's how I feel right now. More than likely I will come to my senses and agree that I deserve more.


That feeling of infatuation is a chemical response that or brain has when we meet someone new. The brain pumps out a lot more dopamine and oxytocin than usual. That’s why we feel high and oh so happy with new love. The idea biologically is to keep a couple together long enough for the female to get pregnant and the male to help her through the pregnancy. 

After 18 months or so, reality sets in and the couple suddenly starts to see each other without the fog of all those feel good chemicals.

If you want your husband to find out if he really does love her, tell him to go live with her full time. Let him rely on her 100% to get his emotional needs met. You don’t have to us ultimatums or be mean about it. Just tell him to go find out if he really does want to be with her. Tell him that if he changes his mind and ends his relationship with her, then he can come back to you. But take yourself out of the picture. Make him rely completely on her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just thought of something.

You are treating your husband like his mother would. It's like he fell down and got a boo boo and your are fussing all over him because he's hurting. It reminds me of my MIL when I made the comment to her that her son, my husband, was cheating. Her reaction was empathy for him and total disregard for me and our son. She was sooo worried about him and babied him.

Is this a theme in your marriage?


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

You feel how you feel - and are entitled to feel that way. You are also entitle to process this whole thing in your own way and on your own time frame. Like I said before - one day the picture will be clear and you will see where the pieces need to fit for you.

For now - there are some things that should be on your radar. You may not want to think about this right now - but since you don't have control over what your husband decides - at some point you should be thinking about what will happen if he does choose the OW and start figuring out what you need to do so that you are prepared if that happens - both emotionally and financially. Gathering information on your legal rights and the legal process might give you something concrete to focus on, help you feel more in control of your situation, and perhaps even help alleviate some of your fear. Something to consider when you are up to it. 

I may have missed your answer - Do you have access to counseling? Do you have a support system of close friends or family that you can talk to openly and honestly about this situation?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm sorry you're here but I'm also glad you're here.

Unfortunately, your husband is a coward. I understand the MLC and the death close to him pushing him into risky behavior.

He is a coward and he's looking for you to make any move that would assuage his guilt and let him leave you.

While I agree you should look out for yourself and consider dating others, I would also suggest that you not do this or at least not inform him because I think he would use this as an excuse to leave you.

I recommend you seek counseling to help you through this. You should work on seeing yourself as a successful independent person. You should see yourself is valuable and complete without him. If it works out between you all the better. If not you will persevere.

I agree with with others who say that his infatuation will eventually wear off. Hopefully he will see value in the relationship you have. But it's not guaranteed, I'm sorry about that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> That feeling of infatuation is a chemical response that or brain has when we meet someone new. The brain pumps out a lot more dopamine and oxytocin than usual. That’s why we feel high and oh so happy with new love. The idea biologically is to keep a couple together long enough for the female to get pregnant and the male to help her through the pregnancy.
> 
> After 18 months or so, reality sets in and the couple suddenly starts to see each other without the fog of all those feel good chemicals.
> 
> If you want your husband to find out if he really does love her, tell him to go live with her full time. Let him rely on her 100% to get his emotional needs met. You don’t have to us ultimatums or be mean about it. Just tell him to go find out if he really does want to be with her. *Tell him that if he changes his mind and ends his relationship with her, then he can come back to you.* But take yourself out of the picture. Make him rely completely on her.


In all fairness, the bit in bold doesn't really take her out of the picture.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I just thought of something.
> 
> You are treating your husband like his mother would. It's like he fell down and got a boo boo and your are fussing all over him because he's hurting. It reminds me of my MIL when I made the comment to her that her son, my husband, was cheating. Her reaction was empathy for him and total disregard for me and our son. She was sooo worried about him and babied him.
> 
> Is this a theme in your marriage?


This is a great observation, Ele.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Sinner said:


> But he loves and cares for us both and doesn't want anyone to get hurt.


Let me translate that for you.

What he *wants* is for the Gravy Train to continue chugging along. It's the ALL ABOUT HIM Show - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And he's got two women who are foolish enough to think he's actually *worth* debasing themselves by doing the "pick me!!" dance hoping to win this 'prize.'

He's got a 'gorgeous' girlfriend (your words) whose self esteem is obviously in the toilet after a few bad marriages or she wouldn't be wasting her time with some lying, cheating, married coward. So it's obvious she no longer respects herself and feels someone like him is the best she can get. 

Then there's you, the wife whose 'turned on' by these two low lives having sex and talking about making it a threesome. Nothing wrong with flying your freak flag, I guess. But you seem to be stuck in the 'bargaining' phase of grief, continually setting the bar *lower and lower and lower* just to hang on to this miscreant like grim death at all costs. 

And the truth is, you stopped being a victim and became a volunteer a long time ago. 

You DO have the power to stop the crazy. For some odd reason, you're choosing instead to let these two decide how you're going to live your life.

Find your self respect, OP. It's in there somewhere. And after you find it, find your voice.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

mary35 said:


> In all fairness Gus - Letting him go does not guarantee she will get him back.


Honestly, who would TAKE someone back whose capable of *this* level of complete disrespect and disregard for their spouse? Who does that?

If I were the OP, I sure as HELL wouldn't be having sex with this guy. Hell, at this point, I wouldn't even spit on him if he were on fire on the sidewalk. I'd cross the street just to avoid getting ashes on my shoes.

But mostly, I'd be too busy at my lawyer's office drawing up the papers to unload 180 pounds of worthless flesh.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I just have no words to say when I read stories like these. Nothing. My mind is a blank.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@MattMatt, I believe we've been warned about the cuckold word, but it does apply here as OP has admitted that her husband having sex with his OW is a turn on for her.
@Sinner, there is a theory that cuckolds have basically taken a fear (being cheated on) and turned it into a kink. Do you think you really enjoy the mind movies of your H with his mistress or do you think this is basically a deep fear come to life that you are coping with by turning it into a kink?

It's common knowledge here that I was a WW in my first marriage with multiple affairs. I didn't hide my activities and my exH only made a stink about it when he wasn't actively involved in affairs of his own. I never got emotionally involved with my AP's, they were FWB's and nothing more. Then I met a man and fell in love. Within a few months, I ended my sham marriage and became a couple with my AP. As soon as my divorce was final, we married. We've been together nearly 17 years, nearly 14 of those married.

Sometimes, it's about the "Ooh, shiny!" and sometimes it's the real thing. 

You've never been with anyone else. He is all you've known for over 2 decades. You have no basis for comparison. You may be failing to see his failings because of that. Ask yourself this. What kind of man would cheat on his loyal wife of many years AND cheat on a broken woman who is fragile? Answer: A man who honestly cares about nothing but himself.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I just thought of something.
> 
> You are treating your husband like his mother would. It's like he fell down and got a boo boo and your are fussing all over him because he's hurting. It reminds me of my MIL when I made the comment to her that her son, my husband, was cheating. Her reaction was empathy for him and total disregard for me and our son. She was sooo worried about him and babied him.
> 
> Is this a theme in your marriage?


I can certainly see where this could be construed. But no, I"ve never really babied him in our marriage. OF course when you love someone you want to do things for that person - I think that's probably universal. We've normally been very good at supporting each other rather evenly.

You have to understand that despite the way it may look, I am also thinking of myself in all of this, not just him. And of course, the kids too. But I also am dealing with him from a compassionate standpoint... I know this didn't happen in a vacuum. And I know him. He is not this horrible person that people would like to make him out to be. 27 years of fidelity is nothing to sneeze at. But now he's made this mistake and we are trying to decide our next steps... but we're scared, because that first step is a doozy.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Sinner said:


> Ultimately, if I had my way, I'd want to go back to the way we were... that he is mine exclusively. We had never invited anyone into the bedroom because of this very thing... that attachments could form and things would go sideways. If he were to stay with me, be mine exclusively, and fall back in love with me, that would be the ONLY real scenario where I "win." Every other scenario we discussed, I somehow "lose." And yet, the one in which I "win" has the slimmest chance of actually happening. So I have to prepare myself for whatever happens. And I am doing just that. I am not wearing my wedding/engagement rings anymore, for example. And thinking of what we will do if we do split.
> 
> Please don't confuse my cavalier attitude with being comfortable with this whole thing. It has devastated me. It has ruined my life. I have been very near the brink many times and if you were to read my journals, you could see exactly how it has affected me. Some days I'm okay. Some days I need scraping up off the floor. But I am trying my best to deal the only ways I can.


You have a very confusing issue to me. I can comment on it in many ways, but I'll instead leave it with just one certainty. 

The reason you are devastated and waver between devastation and "cavalier" as you put it, is that this is how you are coping with it. You do not recover with coping. You recover with doing. What you need to be doing to transition from "treading water" to "swimming to shore" is to assume control of the situation. Period. We need to fully articulate a plan but the essence of taking control is:

1. becoming unpredictable to both him and her
2. assigning consequences to their actions

Examples of this include (there are ideas - don't do them yet):

- exposing her as a husband stealing evil person to her friends and family
- exposure to his friends and family. Through the advise of a counselor, expose to children
- file for divorce
- exposure to her that you guys have re-started your relationship


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

mary35 said:


> You feel how you feel - and are entitled to feel that way. You are also entitle to process this whole thing in your own way and on your own time frame. Like I said before - one day the picture will be clear and you will see where the pieces need to fit for you.
> 
> For now - there are some things that should be on your radar. You may not want to think about this right now - but since you don't have control over what your husband decides - at some point you should be thinking about what will happen if he does choose the OW and start figuring out what you need to do so that you are prepared if that happens - both emotionally and financially. Gathering information on your legal rights and the legal process might give you something concrete to focus on, help you feel more in control of your situation, and perhaps even help alleviate some of your fear. Something to consider when you are up to it.
> 
> I may have missed your answer - Do you have access to counseling? Do you have a support system of close friends or family that you can talk to openly and honestly about this situation?


We have talked about what might happen if we split. It's not something I've avoided looking at. I've even gone so far as to investigate the possibility of living elsewhere, though it truly makes more sense for me and the kids to stay in this house. I've also been applying for jobs - but that was something I needed to do regardless of this situation. I have looked briefly at legal things but it is on the radar.

Before he came completely clean, he had agreed to counseling thru his work's EAP. I set it up but we haven't made any appointments yet. The only other support I've had thru this has been a close friend who lives far away. My family wouldn't understand and would be very judgmental.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> @MattMatt, I believe we've been warned about the cuckold word, but it does apply here as OP has admitted that her husband having sex with his OW is a turn on for her.
> 
> @Sinner, there is a theory that cuckolds have basically taken a fear (being cheated on) and turned it into a kink. Do you think you really enjoy the mind movies of your H with his mistress or do you think this is basically a deep fear come to life that you are coping with by turning it into a kink?
> 
> ...


There's also someone who self-described as a cuckold on TAM, so in some respects it's allowable.

But not in this case. As a woman Sinner would be a cuckqueen. 

Oh, dear. I went all









:rofl:


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> @MattMatt, I believe we've been warned about the cuckold word, but it does apply here as OP has admitted that her husband having sex with his OW is a turn on for her.
> 
> @Sinner, there is a theory that cuckolds have basically taken a fear (being cheated on) and turned it into a kink. Do you think you really enjoy the mind movies of your H with his mistress or do you think this is basically a deep fear come to life that you are coping with by turning it into a kink?


As I've said, we've talked about others in the bedroom for a very long time, so it's been a kink for quite some time. I could never say with certainty if we actually did it, whether or not it would be more hurtful than erotic. I'm not sure 100% I can say it now either - since it's still only an image in my mind, and not in the flesh. 



> It's common knowledge here that I was a WW in my first marriage with multiple affairs. I didn't hide my activities and my exH only made a stink about it when he wasn't actively involved in affairs of his own. I never got emotionally involved with my AP's, they were FWB's and nothing more. Then I met a man and fell in love. Within a few months, I ended my sham marriage and became a couple with my AP. As soon as my divorce was final, we married. We've been together nearly 17 years, nearly 14 of those married.
> 
> Sometimes, it's about the "Ooh, shiny!" and sometimes it's the real thing.


And this is part of why I'm not demanding it end immediately... I know that there is the possibility that this could be a forever after thing for him. I can't make that decision for him... but I do agree that I perhaps should start to push for a resolution instead of waiting for something to finally happen.



> You've never been with anyone else. He is all you've known for over 2 decades. You have no basis for comparison. You may be failing to see his failings because of that. Ask yourself this. What kind of man would cheat on his loyal wife of many years AND cheat on a broken woman who is fragile? Answer: A man who honestly cares about nothing but himself.


I have certainly said this to myself many times. However, I'm also giving him the benefit of the doubt as well, since I DO know that he is not 100% selfish. The reality lies firmly in the middle somewhere... he is doing a balancing act trying to keep himself and the both of us all happy in some format all at the same time. Knowing full well that it's all about to come crashing down.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It seems like you are handling this well. Granted, feelings and emotions can change depending on circumstances. There is a chance this can turn into a fetish for you or at least a kink, which it sounds like it has to some extent. Sex is one of those things that can rewire a brain quickly. Kind of like how cuckolds and cucqueans get off on humiliation as their sexual fetish. Sex can be wired to strong emotions.

I am hoping he does not give you any crap should you be sleeping with another man. I have seen a few guys that gotten angry and sometimes violent when they push their partner to sleep with other men and found out that they could not handle it afterwards. Fantasy and reality is quite different. Often males get jealous because their success rate is lower than their female partner. I remember this one guy that was like a 1 to 5 ratio compared to his partner and he punished her for it even though he was the one that pushed her into open relationship. He spent more nights alone while she had a more of a success rate.

Are you bothered that you spent a couple of decades with him and if he was pushed to make a choice, that history and the bond of you being his best friend, mother, wife, would have less value. Everything has a value to it, even love.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Yes of course I'm bothered. It's been one of those things I've expressed in my journaling in my lowest moments. But I know the chemicals of newness are extremely strong and hard to resist, and fvck up the brain and complicate true reasoning. His hesitancy to let me go, also, is worth noting... the lifelong bond thing does mean _something_. All of these nuances are part of what we're processing.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Yes of course I'm bothered. It's been one of those things I've expressed in my journaling in my lowest moments. But I know the chemicals of newness are extremely strong and hard to resist, and fvck up the brain and complicate true reasoning. His hesitancy to let me go, also, is worth noting... the lifelong bond thing does mean _something_. All of these nuances are part of what we're processing.


You're giving him far too much credit.

He hasn't let you go because _he doesn't *have* to._

You're allowing him to do what countless cheaters before him have done --

Cake-eat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> You're giving him far too much credit.
> 
> He hasn't let you go because _he doesn't *have* to._
> 
> ...


Yes I know that. You all are right to some degree whether I like it or not. There are some terribly hard truths that I have to face with this and I am trying my best. I am trying to look at all sides, think rationally not emotionally, and stagger towards some sort of clarity. I think you all are helping boost my resolve to confront him and start the downhill run towards resolution, whatever that may be. I love the analogy of treading water vs. swimming to shore... it's perfect. We've been treading for a month now, trying to determine what to do next, but we'll drown if we don't DO something soon. It's not sustainable and I know we both know that, and delaying the inevitable is unhealthy at best.

I have already jotted down notes on what I want to say to him, things we need to confront head-on. None of it is new territory but this time there will be an urgency about action. I want to thank you all for steering me in that direction.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sinner, one question I have - Why are you not insisting that your husband be totally honest and upfront with the OW about your relationship? Since affairs thrive in secrecy - and since what is going on is not a secret to you anymore - why not make him bring everything out in the open to her too? I wonder how she would react if she knew the whole truth - that he is keeping her in limbo as much as he is keeping you there? Do you feel it is in your best interest that she stay in the dark about what is going on between you and your husband? If he won't tell her - do you think you could?

I don't know if you have visited this site - Steps to Recover from an affair/infidelity in marriage but a lot of people on TAM seem to recommend his philosophy. It might help for you to read through it - if nothing else it will help you understand why a lot of people on here recommend certain things - like not allowing the affair to continue. 

I also found this article that was interesting - Dealing With Infidelity: What NOT to do by Ruth Houston: The Sideroad I think in some ways (not completely) it suggests that some of the things you are instinctively not doing right now - may be exactly what you should not be doing right now and why. 

I think you are still very much in the early stages of this trial - and still somewhat in shock, still trying to process it all, still trying to figure out what you want and need to do for yourself and your children. While many here advocate a tough love approach - that you should be demanding he be all the way in or all the way out right now, you have expressed that approach does not feel right to you at this moment. Yet you also seem to fully recognize that you don't know how you will feel later - how you will feel the longer you deal with this. I don't think that you are in a bad place - doing what you are doing - as long as it is benefiting you in some way and not damaging you - and as long as you are doing what you are doing with your eyes wide open. I get the feeling that you do have your eyes wide open at the moment - even if you can't make complete sense of what you are seeing.

Personally - I think you have instinctively found a way to draw your husband back to you and to get him to bond physically with you - reminding him what he has forgotten - how good you CAN be together. While you're not taking the tough approach and are not insisting right now that he make a choice immediately may be prolonging the affair or MAY be keeping him from making a decision, it is also buying you time - allowing you to reconnect with him, giving you time to get him to talk to you, and open up to you, and making him see just what he will be giving up. And at the moment - you are enjoying being with him sexually. So there are some benefits to your approach. And you realize that may change tomorrow. If it does change - should what you are doing right now start to feel bad to you - start to drag your self esteem down - or be hurtful to you in anyway - cause you to feel that you are begging him to stay with you - then you should immediately re-evaluate what you are doing. The benefits need to outweigh the downside.

One of the downsides that I worry about for you - that you need to weigh in this equation - is that while you are drawing him back to you on a certain level - you are also being drawn back to him - you are further bonding and connecting with him, which is further opening up yourself to be even more hurt than you already are. This bonding that is going on now MAY make it all the more devastating for you, should he decide to leave you. One of the benefits of the tough approach that many are advocating - is it gives you some control of the situation - and that gives you power, which in some ways helps you to begin to detach somewhat and helps prepare you for the outcome of possibly losing him. While what you are doing now does seem to have some benefits - you should carefully weigh those benefits with the downside. And since right now - you are just trying to get through each day, I suggest that you may want to do this evaluation on a regular basis.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Oops - because my computer froze, I did not read you latest post - before posting mine. It sounds like you are changing your direction - so some of my post may no longer apply. Some may still apply - so I will leave it be.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Sinner said:


> Now, circumstances created what could be called a perfect storm and my husband had an affair.


This is no such thing as a perfect storm. He cheated because he wanted to and had no respect for you. It's also clear, despite your objections, that by sharing him with another woman you also have no respect for yourself. He sees this as clear as day so he has no reason to give you something you do not even possess for yourself.

And this nonsense about "loving him forever" is absurd. You have confused love with codependency. You can love someone and let them go. If you require companionship this much get a dog and put your energy into loving it instead. At least they are loyal.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Sinner said:


> As I've said, we've talked about others in the bedroom for a very long time, so it's been a kink for quite some time. I could never say with certainty if we actually did it, whether or not it would be more hurtful than erotic. I'm not sure 100% I can say it now either - since it's still only an image in my mind, and not in the flesh.
> 
> And this is part of why I'm not demanding it end immediately... I know that there is the possibility that this could be a forever after thing for him. I can't make that decision for him... but I do agree that I perhaps should start to push for a resolution instead of waiting for something to finally happen.
> 
> I have certainly said this to myself many times. However, I'm also giving him the benefit of the doubt as well, since I DO know that he is not 100% selfish. The reality lies firmly in the middle somewhere... he is doing a balancing act trying to keep himself and the both of us all happy in some format all at the same time. Knowing full well that it's all about to come crashing down.


I'm saying it is possible that the fear he would stray existed before this affair and turned into a kink back then. I know more than a few people who thought the idea was hot and totally lost their minds when the fantasy became reality. 

You're right, you can't make the decision for him. You can, however, insist he make a decision. You can also let him know what you will and will not tolerate. He won't end this on his own. He is going to try to keep it going as long as he can. Give him a little nudge. 

When he began the affair with her, he had you, too. During the affair, he still has you. How can he discern what life would be like without you and with her as his only partner if you're always there? Tell him to go live with her full time and depend only on her to meet his needs. It's honestly the only way he will ever know for sure. Also, insist he be totally honest with her about continuing a sexual relationship with you. Fair play and all that.

While he is deciding, you communicate about the children and finances ONLY.

Either he'll wake up and be grateful you're willing to reconcile, if you still are willing by that point, or he'll know it's the real thing with her and you can heal and move forward.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You already know you are enabling him. I recommend that you get in touch with the other woman and tell her that you know exactly what her sexual turn ons are and how your husband has been pleasuring her and then going home and having sex with you as well. That he is greatly turned on by having two women. Then give her tell her some of the secrets that she shared with your husband in confidence. That's all you'll need to do. Once she realizing that he has been telling you her sexual secrets and about her life, she is not going to feel so "in love" with him anymore.


This may anger your husband, but he probably won't leave you. He will need a place to stay once she throws him out of her house. This is probably your best hope.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you make a mistake when you elevate him to the role of tragic hero. His behavior is neither tragic nor heroic, in my opinion. It is sordid. And very selfish and hurtful.

It's a huge ego boost to be whipsawed between two women who are happy to fight for you. It isn't noble or tragic - it's just selfish writ large.

You are enabling it in your fear of losing him. I sympathize with you, but by dignifying his behavior, you only prolong the inevitable, which is that you all eventually realize that this is just another lowdown, garden-variety cheating story where a married person who vowed to forsake all others would rather lie and cheat than own up to his/her behavior and feelings.

There are no good actors in this, in my opinion. Your WH and the OW lie to you; you and your WH lie to the OW.

I think you are putting lipstick on a pig when you write about this as if there is any honor in it. Do the 180. File for divorce. Let him have the woman he is 'in love with.' Save yourself before you sink further into this mess.


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## Clair (May 17, 2013)

I too feel that in your present state of shock and fear, you are falsely dignifying /legitimizing your WH behaviour by casting him in the role of noble/tragic hero, torn between you and his OW, honorably trying to keep all of you happy (as you put it).

So sorry this has happened to you, but lying, cheating, and destroying your happiness, are not the actions of someone who values you or your relationship. Please take decisive action before you lose your self respect by clinging on to, or trying to accommodate, a man who has clearly stated he cannot give up OW. He can't be worth such torment?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> The worst part of this is that you may think that your children are going to buy into your fantasies and threesome. NOT!!! Your children will be much affected by the betrayal of their father, they will never accept the OW, and if you get into the threesome they will be disgusted by you.
> 
> Sinner, RUN RUN to get help for yourself. You know that your inappropriate thoughts of sex, including your “… thought of him having sex with someone else turns me on like you wouldn't “believe” is very destructive to you and your family. STOP compromising so that you can try to fulfill your inappropriate sexual thoughts that are destructive!
> 
> ...




*Right now your children are already suffering to some extent because of you two*…You have described your negative emotional state and your husband is trying to justify his guilt by trying to get you to get into sex with another man. Your children can sense the turmoil and sometimes the fear of the unknown is the worst fear of all. This is going to be blunt and hard but I hope that it helps you to take the right actions.* You both are choosing your egos and sexual excitement over your children.* You are enabling your husband and compromising because you desire a threesome and you are too co-dependant. Your husband has betrayed you and his children and is giving his attention and time to the OW.

I forced my WW to tell the children (one was a 16 year old) and yes there was an explosion by my daughter and my 16 year old daughter resented her mother for some time. *However, my WW having to face some harsh consequences, including being rejected and resented by her children, broke the fog-fantasy or whatever you want to call it.* She became broken and decided to do all that she could to be accepted back into the family. After she started to face up to reality and realize that she was choosing her selfish ego and also her allowing herself to try and resurrect her teenage emotions, she began the long journey back to getting some self-respect and hoping for acceptance from her family.

It took her four years of her humble and appropriate actions for her to get some respect and acceptance. Because of her correct actions for years she now has family acceptance without resentment and some self-respect. I am speaking mostly to you and not your husband because other posters have described your husband accurately. You seem to be happy with the fact that you and your husband have discussed your damaging sexual situation very openly. Why not be open and honest about he reality of your situation. Being open and honest with all concerned about the damage you both have done to the family is a good start. Then you have to be totally committed to take CORRECT ACTIONS for a long time to build yourself up.* Your goal should be for you to get a lot more self-sufficient so that you can be a source of strength to your children and yourself*. There are a few things that you can do to help your husband face reality but you are very limited as to what you can do to change your husband. *You can change yourself GREATLY and it is mostly in your hands to do so.*


*Will you make the decision to get all the correct help that you can and then will you ACT on those suggestions and methods?* You have already been given a lot of good suggestions on this thread. You can start by getting control of your threesome erotic thoughts. No relationship, which I know of, has lasted with a threesome. In addition, your children will never have respect for you having threesomes.

I want to believe that you really want to put your life back together so that you can at least have a good relationship with yourself and your children. Getting your marriage back to a satisfactory level will depend on you and YOUR HUSBAND’s actions. *Your ACTIONS in the next several weeks, months, and years will tell if you are going to get better or worse.*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

alte Dame said:


> I think you make a mistake when you elevate him to the role of tragic hero. His behavior is neither tragic nor heroic, in my opinion. It is sordid. And very selfish and hurtful.


Having been in affairs, the truth is that no one just wakes up one day in love/lust with someone other than their spouse. There are many stages and steps along the way and many chances for the WS to put a stop to the developing relationship before it becomes a full blown EA and/or PA.

The reality is, @Sinner 's husband knew going into the relationship with his mistress what was happening and what was going to happen and he chose to move forward instead of putting a stop to it. He had many chances before it became an affair to shut it down and he didn't.

Let me give an example. I had a ONS with a man I met while out with friends. First, I was attracted to him. I knew there was potential there. I chose to continue hanging out and chatting with him. Then, we ended up alone in my friend's apartment. I knew that was an inappropriate and dangerous situation. I could have left then, but I continued. He broke the physical contact barrier by rubbing my neck. I knew it was wrong to let him touch me, but I didn't get up and walk out. He went in for a kiss, I saw it coming, I did not turn away. We made out and began fondling each other. I knew we were heading toward sex and I did nothing to put a stop to it. 

Affairs that start as EA's or that build up over time have MANY more moments where the persons involved are aware of what they are doing and could choose to stop at any time. Don't feel sorry for a man who put himself in his unhappy situation.

He's not some star-crossed lover in a cheap romance novel.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Having been in affairs, the truth is that no one just wakes up one day in love/lust with someone other than their spouse. There are many stages and steps along the way and many chances for the WS to put a stop to the developing relationship before it becomes a full blown EA and/or PA.
> 
> The reality is, @Sinner 's husband knew going into the relationship with his mistress what was happening and what was going to happen and he chose to move forward instead of putting a stop to it. He had many chances before it became an affair to shut it down and he didn't.


I'm well aware of that and I pointed this out to him some time ago. And no amount of his denials or justifications has changed my mind about it. I know he KNOWS what he was doing when he did it. I emphatically pointed out that he had MANY chances to stop it, even once the guilt had set in and he believed there was no return and I would kick him out, he could have even stopped it then and asked for forgiveness. He didn't. I have never been in an affair myself but I have been very good friends with a male before... where there was a sense of playfulness in interaction and there's that "gut" feeling that your spouse would not be approving, even though nothing overt has been said and nothing physical has ever happened. I knew if we were to go even the tiniest step towards that line, it would be violating trust and vows. I know that feeling and I am CERTAIN he had that feeling and continued anyway. I knew the moment he first mentioned her (when they first met) that there was a spark there. I KNEW it. But 27 years of fidelity was on my side, or so I thought.

I have to take issue with everyone saying I'm painting him as a hero. I said no such thing and I certainly don't believe that. He is flawed, like we all are, and he is human. I don't expect anyone else on this earth to understand... no one else knows him the way I do. None of you know him. He is not a horrible uncaring selfish person. Did he do something selfish? Absolutely. (Haven't we all done selfish things before?) Is he still doing it? Yes, because he doesn't know what else to do and seems to have my temporary blessing. (And that will change after our talk.) Just because I UNDERSTAND how it all happened and why doesn't mean I excuse it or think he's some tragic novel hero. We have always recognized that we are human first and foremost, and that we are subject to fail, spectacularly sometimes, at any given moment. We were never the type to say 'oh that could never happen to us' because we KNOW there is always the possibility and we are more often than not, weak. Could I have been the WW? Absolutely. All it takes is the right circumstances, the right personal dynamic, the right moment of weakness. It can happen to anybody. Does that excuse it? Not at all. It only gives you the WHY.

The articles I read yesterday that were posted in this thread talked about each of us having two sides to us, the GIVER and the TAKER. Sometimes, people who are perpetually givers for their whole lives come to a point where the taker takes over and says, "You know, I've had enough. It's MY time now." And I truly think that's what happened with my H. For me, that's the WHY.

I know it sounds like I'm excusing it, and I get that. But I'm not. Even letting it continue I am not excusing it. I am just not a rash person. I don't make major decisions like this lightly. I have been processing, trying to sort out my feelings, trying to sort out what this all means in the bigger picture, how the kids will be affected at every point in the game, etc etc etc. I also needed to see how this developed, if the open marriage option was viable for me or not. It's like a computer - "processing, please wait" - nothing changes until that processing is done. I don't expect anyone to understand how I'm dealing with this.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I really hope things work out for you. I think your husband would be a fool to let you go and I hope he wakes up and sees that before its too late!!


( BTW - you should change your name to Married to a Sinner. It is more appropriate because in this situation - you are not the sinner)


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@mary35 wow very empathetic but I don't think it's necessary to apologize for others who don't mind being direct. Misreading direct as unkind is a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sinner*
> “…how the kids will be affected”
> I also needed to see how this developed, if the open marriage option was viable for me or not


Betrayal always affects the children negatively and so does three-somes and open marriage. Children do not like to have someone that is not their mother or father having sex with one of their parents or both their mother or father






> *I don't expect anyone to understand how I'm dealing with this*


. 
*Then why are you writing on this forum?* Many on here know how you are dealing with your situation but your statement that no one does is your defense strategy. You seem to not want to take the advice of those that have experienced betrayal but instead you offer your assessment. *How has your assessment and actions worked for you so far?
*




You dodged my question in my post so I will ask it once more below.


> Will you make the decision to get all the correct help that you can and then will you ACT on those suggestions and methods


If you do not want to take the advice of the posters, not get the right help, not take appropriate actions, and not answer questions then I know that you are not ready to move forward.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

removed


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

mary35 said:


> I really hope things work out for you. I think your husband would be a fool to let you go and I hope he wakes up and sees that before its too late!!
> 
> ( BTW - you should change your name to Married to a Sinner. It is more appropriate because in this situation - you are not the sinner)


Thanks Mary... actually the username I normally go by on forums was taken and it took a lot of thinking to come up with a new one - this one actually is based on the Neil Finn song "Sinner" which is a favorite of mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2clJuq9agCc
But also, we're all sinners. 



> Then why are you writing on this forum? Many on here know how you are dealing with your situation but your statement that no one does is your defense strategy. You seem to not want to take the advice of those that have experienced betrayal but instead you offer your assessment. How has your assessment and actions worked for you so far?


It always helps to have other viewpoints in discussing matters, whether you agree with them or not. Sometimes in explaining myself I realize just how much I am denying my own needs... and many of you are pointing out things that I have not wanted to admit to myself. I truly believe if I had not posted here, I would still be waiting, and hurting, instead of taking action. But to say that just because I haven't done exactly the things that others have done does not mean that I am some sort of idiot... I am simply someone trying to do the best she can with how things work for her.



> Will you make the decision to get all the correct help that you can and then will you ACT on those suggestions and methods?


I have already stated I am going to get the ball rolling on resolution. I can only take this one step at a time, one day at a time. and before I can move on to step b or c, I have to start with step A. I appreciate everyone's input, I really do.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sinner said:


> Believe it or not, my self-respect is more or less intact.
> 
> I feel that I was being disrespected when he was deceitful and evasive and hiding things from me. THAT I am dealing with. But he is now being open and honest with me.
> 
> ...


I was not going to respond to this post. It is too incredulous, for ME, anyway.

Then I revved up my "Think-U-Later"...a borrowed term.

Your 'take' on this is *Extremely Cerebral*. For the rest of us your situation equals tragedy. For you? Not so much...?

And "there in" is your Strength.........and your problem. Your strength, such that it allows you to cope with extremely stressful situations that would fold over lesser souls.

Your Problem? You likely come across as "brainy", cool, collected.....and not as passionate as some other "women". You do not "get lost" in your passion.

You approach sex openly and fearlessly. That is good, it really is. But "maybe" *your heart is used only as a means to actuate your body and your motions and not for smiles, anger, passion, lust.*

Cerebral people use their brains [primarily] instead of their hearts. 

Maybe the Other Women is less intelligent but is driven by her passions. She is also likely more resistant to your husbands demands. She is not so obliging, so easy to get along with.....more of a challenge.

I have no problem with your approach to life and your intelligence. Your husband? Seems so.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sinner said:


> I have already stated I am going to get the ball rolling on resolution. I can only take this one step at a time, one day at a time. and before I can move on to step b or c, I have to start with step A. I appreciate everyone's input, I really do.


What is step A, B, C, etc.? Knowing what you plan to do would help us answer you with understanding.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

SunCMars, you could be a tiny bit right... I am analytical. But one of the things I have learned over the course of nearly 30 years of being with the same person... highly strung emotional conflicts rarely get anyone anywhere. Has it happened to me? Absolutely. I've let my emotions go and railed on folks, right or wrong, in the heat of the moment. It's not something I'm proud of, and generally speaking, makes me feel awful afterwards.

My WH used to be VERY hot-headed, and when he got angry it was instant blow-up, then calm talk later. He's mellowed with age, and he has been through many many workshops at work that taught him to deal calmly with angry customers... thru that, he has learned to cool down when the instinct is to blow up, and can calmly work through things in a rational manner. Because he has used that so much around me as well, I have also learned how to detach from the emotional side in order to be more rational and logical. Please don't mistake that for lacking passion... although I can certainly see where people would say that about me.

IF you could have only seen me in the first year of my daughter's life... wow. I was a raving lunatic. So many factors were working against me at the time, not the least of which was ongoing depression and anxiety. I got on meds and became calmer... too calm and too ambivalent, WH said, and I eventually got off them.

But yes, certainly by comparison I am not as high strung as the OW. WH tells me her high strung-ness is an annoyance, not necessarily a plus. But what do I know? It could be an attractant as well.

I might come across as unemotional and robotic here on this board, but trust me I am not like that IRL. Just reading a lot of these responses on this thread got me so upset that I couldn't eat for two days. And then one of the kinder replies made me cry. Is that cerebral? On our vacation at the beach a month ago I had a breakdown. Alone in the beach house I sobbed uncontrollably and screamed questions in vain, rocked myself for comfort, and even crawled across the floor. Is that using my brains? I am much more than I might seem here. I might even come across as some sort of ****... when in reality I've been with only one person in my whole 44 years on this earth (not a whole lot of people in the world can say that). And even as HD as I am right now, I doubt that I'll be having sex with anyone else until I have determined them to be worth marrying.

Current situation aside, I think if my WH had not been fine with my temperament, he would not have stayed with me for 28 years.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> What is step A, B, C, etc.? Knowing what you plan to do would help us answer you with understanding.


I want to talk to my WH and get him to come clean to the OW. If she still wants him after that, he needs to live with her with no contact from me to see if it's really what he wants.

I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. But I will.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sinner said:


> I want to talk to my WH and get him to come clean to the OW. If she still wants him after that, he needs to live with her with no contact from me to see if it's really what he wants.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. But I will.


What if he doesn't come clean with her? How will you know? It is likely that he will minimize and manipulate the situation.

If you have no contact with him, how is he going to see the children? Can you see him taking them to his new home with OW? Will you leave your own home so he can spend time with the children?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sinner said:


> I want to talk to my WH and get him to come clean to the OW. If she still wants him after that, he needs to live with her with no contact from me to see if it's really what he wants.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. But I will.


If you tell your husband that he can go be with OW, but not have contact with you, but that he can take him time to decide what he wants to do - he is going to leave you. Why wouldn't he? He can try her out and if it doesn't work, he can come back. A trail period is only going to give them a chance to bond more deeply.

This is really not a consequence. It just gives him more time and makes you more miserable.

Really, I would go with what I suggested before. You tell her that he is all over you and you two are having sex when he's home. Tell her the secrets he's shared with you about her. Let her know that she's being played, because that's exactly what's happening. If you leave this up to him, it's only going to get worse.


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## Clair (May 17, 2013)

At present, you seem to have very little power, if any, to sway the outcome of this situation, Sinner. Your WH has stated he is in love with AP, and is unwilling to give her up. Would he choose AP over you if she demanded it (and my guess is he has already told her he is going to do just that)? Are you willing to continue sleeping with him until she finds out? Are you afraid of losing him if she finds out?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> What if he doesn't come clean with her? How will you know? It is likely that he will minimize and manipulate the situation.
> 
> If you have no contact with him, how is he going to see the children?* Can you see him taking them to his new home with OW?* Will you leave your own home so he can spend time with the children?


I'd pay to be a fly on the wall when he informs OW that it's his parenting time and the kids will be coming to their shared house. If reality kills affairs, not much is more real than 4 kids.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I'd pay to be a fly on the wall when he informs OW that it's his parenting time and the kids will be coming to their shared house. If reality kills affairs, not much is more real than 4 kids.


Particularly three angry kids.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sinner - read post #7 by Snerg if you haven't already. Some good stuff that might be helpful to you!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...had-affair-positive-comments-only-please.html


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

This may be my last post for a long time.

I talked to him last night. We agreed that he is going to start, sometime next week, living with her full time. No contact with me except emergencies; no texts, phone calls or sex. He can see the kids anytime he wants (I am NOT ever going to put limits on his time with the kids), though it is likely he will set up regular days each week to spend with them. If he stays with the kids at this house, I will go elsewhere for the duration of his stay. Otherwise he can take them to her house. Next week he will be informing the kids of our situation - I have no idea exactly what he will say other than that we are separated. But absolutely they will have to know about her before they step foot on her property.

He will not come clean to her. I argued but he is adamant. So that is all on him. I am NOT going to be vindictive and petty, so please leave this issue alone now, I am done talking about it. I am not responsible for his relationships.

We are both feeling the gravity of the situation now. Neither of us could sleep last night. Today I feel sick. I don't know how any of this will go, so I will no doubt put all of my energies now into scraping myself off the floor and tending to my kids, who will need me now more than ever. So I doubt I will come back here for some time.

I appreciate all the comments and help you've all given me. You've made me realize I do need and want more than I am currently getting, though the road between now and some semblance of happiness is going to be long and arduous. Please just send any good vibes, thoughts and prayers my way as I navigate this frightening part of my journey. Thank you.

P.S. There's only two kids. And she loves kids and regrets she was never given a chance to have them herself. I know she will treat them kindly.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow. You are setting up a sweet situation for him to treat you like a piece of dirt. You are making his cheating easy and helping him achieve what he wants. Good luck. I'm out.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sinner, I am so so sorry! I am sending huge positive waves of energy your way and a huge hug! One of the reasons I was drawn to your story is that I too have been with my husband most of my life. We met when I was 10 and became boyfriend/girlfriend when I was barely 15, he was 16. We were each other first. We have been together ever since - over 43 years. I can't even imagine ever being without him, so I can only imagine what you must be feeling and what you are going through right now. As I read your latest post, I also felt sick. I wanted to shout out to your husband - "NOOO! Don't do that to her!". But he is and now you must deal with your reality - and that sucks big time! More than sucks big time!! You don't know what the future has in store - but while it is OK to have hope that he will change his mind - don't get stuck waiting for that to happen. Of course you are going to go through a period of extreme sadness and grief. Allow yourself time to grieve - but don't let yourself get stuck in it. Some day, I promise you, a ray of sunshine will peak through the clouds. Take every positive step forward that you can think of taking - to work on yourself, to work on becoming strong and whole, and to work on your future happiness. You deserve nothing less and so much more! 

Please, Sinner, take care of yourself. Focus on you and the children for the next several weeks. Do what you need to do to stay healthy and to rebuild your self esteem. Make a list of things that you have wanted to do and have been meaning to do - and focus on those things. Keep yourself busy with positive things. Find a way to serve others in need. Now is the time to start counseling if that option is still open to you. 

My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. 

Sending huge cyber hugs!!!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Grieve. Take you're time. You'll work through all of your hopes and plans and put them aside. It's ok to take that time. It's ok to get really, really angry too. I'm afraid you were holding out hope and this got in the way of your anger. That's normal but do let your anger out too 


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Pathetic that you have such little value for yourself and such narrow understanding of psychology.......... 
Wow. 

This will not end well me thinks. But we hopefully will hear from you in a few weeks or months and catch us up on the fact that husband has moved on, and she does not know what a piece of **** he is, because he cheated on you both....(AND I CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE LYING ABOUT IT!) PROTECTING HIM MUCH? GET A BACK BONE HONEY!!! 

lots of good thoughts and hopes for you to get control of this situation because this man has been your everything for so long... He ****s on you and you take it? no.... you fight for your worth. Please.


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## Alli3fire (Oct 23, 2016)

So, you and your husband exchanged wedding vows at some point foresaking all others and you're just going to allow him to continue breaking those vows? You're delusional right now. He is absolutely not going to leave her EVER if you continue down this path. He will NEVER respect you going forward knowing you would have kept him despite fvcking another woman. Men don't fall back in love with doormats. You want a chance to keep your marriage? Tell him to move the F out and start building up your life again and gaining some self esteem. He may or may not return at some point, but I hope you've moved on at that point if he does. There is virtually 0% chance he will stay with a woman who allows him to fVck someone else. Deep down no-one can respect someone who does that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sinner said:


> SunCMars, you could be a tiny bit right... I am analytical. But one of the things I have learned over the course of nearly 30 years of being with the same person... highly strung emotional conflicts rarely get anyone anywhere. Has it happened to me? Absolutely. I've let my emotions go and railed on folks, right or wrong, in the heat of the moment. It's not something I'm proud of, and generally speaking, makes me feel awful afterwards.
> 
> My WH used to be VERY hot-headed, and when he got angry it was instant blow-up, then calm talk later. He's mellowed with age, and he has been through many many workshops at work that taught him to deal calmly with angry customers... thru that, he has learned to cool down when the instinct is to blow up, and can calmly work through things in a rational manner. Because he has used that so much around me as well, I have also learned how to detach from the emotional side in order to be more rational and logical. Please don't mistake that for lacking passion... although I can certainly see where people would say that about me.
> 
> ...


Thank you for you honesty. Thank you for putting my assumptions in perspective. I was wrong. Some posters dump out the tea leaves for us to read, but keep the diary hidden.

I hope I was not one of the posters who upset you. If I did, I am sorry.

Believe or not, some of the stories that we read here make us very sad. Some of us get depressed, some of us say inane, useless crap.

Luckily, there is a bit of very good advice from some of the people here on TAM........some of the time. Eat the grain, discard the chaff.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

So sorry you find yourself in this place.

How old are your kids, they are old enough to know what is going on

I don't think he should be allowed into your house to see the kids, once he leaves, that is your space. Why should you be expected to up and leave when he visits. He ends up with the best of both worlds. 
If he wants to visit, he picks them up and goes to her place, that is his new home, period.

You do not have to change your way of life, your space, etc for him. he has lost that privilege, big time.!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sinner said:


> Yes I know that. You all are right to some degree whether I like it or not. There are some terribly hard truths that I have to face with this and I am trying my best. I am trying to look at all sides, think rationally not emotionally, and stagger towards some sort of clarity. I think you all are helping boost my resolve to confront him and start the downhill run towards resolution, whatever that may be. I love the analogy of treading water vs. swimming to shore... it's perfect. *We've been treading for a month now, trying to determine what to do next, but we'll drown if we don't DO something soon. It's not sustainable and I know we both know that, and delaying the inevitable is unhealthy at best.*
> 
> I have already jotted down notes on what I want to say to him, things we need to confront head-on. None of it is new territory but this time there will be an urgency about action. I want to thank you all for steering me in that direction.


You keep talking as if this a joint endeavour somehow, you need to see your situation for what it really is. Your husband is ****ing another woman and wants to **** you too and have you both and for you to agree to the arrangement. You are trying to be this liberal, rationally minded modern female, please stop it and wake up. This scenario is as old as the hills and your husband is not some poor lost male on a journey of discovery, he is a cake eater pure and simple, there is no other way to rationalise it. He needs some tough love (like a unruly teenager). YOU have to call the shots, it is not his perogative. He has lost that right and if you cannot see that, then I feel very sorry for you. He is acting with a sense of entitlement which he does not deserve.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

^^^^

I agree.... whole heartedly. 

I think the OP is a great gal, but seems like she is the girl version of the "good guy syndrome" she is being agreeable to the point of being a door mat. 

I think the OP needs to realize SHE IS GREAT. she is WORTHY, and her husband is not. Cut him loose and no promises but your husband may come back, because you can't respect boundaries unless they are held... If you don't demand that respect he will not just offer it. He does not respect you. If he did his actions would be different.

How you do this is completely tell him you are done. File for divorce and tell him you have decided. Either he will beg for a chance, and you make him agree to a post nup or walk. Or he will move on with the other woman and live happily NEVER after. 

Never you worry, he will not be happier without you in the long run because he is broken.


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

Well I am sure the majority of you will be pleased to know that we are divorcing. Starting with a permanent separation for the next couple of months to get thru the holidays and get things sorted out.

He told the OW about us, and exactly like I predicted, she did not dump him. So he has at least come clean on that front. We had a talk where he was saying basically "It's me, not you" and that he had been unhappy for a very long time and needed to fix what was broken in him before he could properly relate to anyone. He talks like things are not good with her either, but I'm sure she'll come around... she doesn't have any choice. He claims he is not "choosing" her over me, but I said, for all intents and purposes, you are. You can call it whatever you like but the fact remains that you are continuing to live with her, continuing to sleep with her, and continuing to spend time with her. I told him again that I thought this was temporary, that they would not last, but that I cannot give him what he needs right now because his Taker is still dominant. And until his Giver comes back, there is no "us."

He wanted to have a permanent separation... not divorce. I said I didn't see the point. He was wanting to make sure I have medical coverage and I get that, but I feel deep down what he was avoiding was the hefty price tag of divorce. I said there's nothing I need done and I can get on Obamacare or whatever, or maybe I'll get hired somewhere with benefits. There's no reason to drag things out and I am too badly hurt right now to be put on the shelf as a backup. Maybe somewhere wayyyy down the road there could be a future together for the two of us, but both of us would have to have changed an awful lot and healed ourselves before that would even be possible. I'm not discounting it, but I'm certainly not banking on it.

He told the kids we are separating and will most likely divorce. The kids seem to understand. He will tell them about the OW before they go over to her house. Right now we are not telling family... not sure at what point we will. Baby steps.

He got a little emotional before he left, and held me. I felt nothing.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Sinner said:


> Well I am sure the majority of you will be pleased to know that we are divorcing.


Very. You need to seek professional help for your severe codependency. The best thing he could of done was dump you for the OW. He did you a huge favor.

You NEEDED to get this toxic person out of your life so you can relearn healthy social behavior and since you clearly lacked the will then I'm very glad he did it.

The gross irony is had you dumped him from the get go, you might have been able to save this relationship down the road because he would have respected you.

Your desperately clingy, "I will love him until my dying day" mentality is what ultimately repulsed him enough to pursue OW and give you the ILYBINILWY speech.

I hope you learn from this and seek counseling........


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## Sinner (Oct 23, 2016)

You are so right BD. 

There isn't any way for any long-term relationship to be built on love, it's only codependency.

And every infidelity is exactly the same and should only be dealt with in one way, because everyone is exactly the same.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sinner said:


> You are so right BD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Huh? Not really true. But your STBXH was a pretty low grade guy in the end. That has a hellofalot more to do with it than simply "the passage of time". LTRs definitely can work and love certainly should continue to be present.

Hopefully once you're clear of him you'll find someone who will love you the way you deserve 


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your husband is weak.

Too weak to stick with his wife and children?

He is a man of jelly/jello. Utterly, absolutely useless as a husband or a father. You and your children (not his children, any longer. As he is abandoning them for a bit of totty, as we say in the UK) are best off without him.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

I don't have much to add but I do want to give kudos to the members whose posts helped the OP, especially @mary35. She has been very patient and understanding, and can probably relate to the OP the most. 
OP, I'm very sorry for what you're going through. Losing a 44 year marriage to infidelity must be absolutely heartbreaking. I hope you heal fast from this and find a faithful man who loves and appreciates you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Late to the party, but get yourself fastly into IC ~ there's no way in hell that he'll ever opt for MC, as he's busy and steadily getting his ashes hauled by the OW, and he knows all too well that MC might greatly assist in circumventing that added little pleasure of his!

Regardless, like it or not, you need to meet with a good "piranha" family attorney to have them assess you of your legal, property, and custodial rights!

You are now his "Plan B" and realistically speaking, don't quite count on that changing anytime in the near future! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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