# Poll: self help books



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Do you read these type of books such as weight loss help, changing your thoughts, etc. etc. etc.? I find that I will get all excited about a great book then get bored of it never finish it, never implement it, etc.

I have downloaded overthe last 5 years many books to my kobo. 

Yesterday I was going to download Law of Attraction then I kind of researched it and they say it is nothing but a bunch of bunk!!

Thoughts on this, are you an advocate of self help books, have any changed your life, or do you find a waste of time and money?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*With me, it is greatly contingent upon who wrote them.

I also read numerous book reviews and solicit recommendations from friends and acquaintances!!*


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

One of the best self help books that I ever read was "The Verbally abusive relationship."

The author did not sugar coat the prblem

Did not alleviate the problem by suggesting that partners who are verbally abusive aren't aware of it or had bad childhoods .....ergo, you should put up with it

She also detailed strategies in which to thwart the impact as well as the fun that a verbally abusive person derives when they are verbally abusive.

I tried to find self help books in the library, so in case it was a dud, I hadn't wasted any money.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> One of the best self help books that I ever read was "The Verbally abusive relationship."
> 
> The author did not sugar coat the prblem
> 
> ...


Great idea about the library, I am going to start doing that. I waste alot of money on downloading books thinking this is it, this one will change my life only to start reading it and lose interest or I find that I already know that stuff. I downloaded one the other day about rewiring your brain, but basically it said, exercise regularly (which I do) and keep busy and try and focus on other things if you are depressed/sad, etc.

Nothing new in that one


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

The best self help book I have read ..”.Why does he do that” by Lundy Bancroft It’s pertinent and extremely insightful to anybody that is dealing with emotional or verbal abuse.

It makes sense out of the chaos you may be experiencing. 

It’s not like other books on verbal and emotional abuse.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Some books are helpful but if you expect a relationship to improve, based on what was in the book, both or other people have to read the same book and buy into its concepts.

I think "No More Mr Nice Guy be Glover, is a good read for men thinking being nice but hoping you get nice back and allowing others to treat you poorly to keep them from getting upset, and some other points, the book is worth a read. Don't expect the book to work miracles FOR you. You have to do the work and that is sometimes the difficult part, especially if you are the type to avoid even minor conflicts. It isn't a book about getting what you want at another person's expense.

I have way too many books and have been in counseling. I never found a magic bullet or a magic book but I did try. Some book ideas worked but most didn't because life doesn't always work out like situations presented in books. Still, some books are worth a try.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

highwood said:


> Do you read these type of books such as weight loss help, changing your thoughts, etc. etc. etc.? I find that I will get all excited about a great book then get bored of it never finish it, never implement it, etc.
> 
> I have downloaded overthe last 5 years many books to my kobo.
> 
> ...


I'm definitely NOT an advocate for lame self help books. I think for the most part, they just make some shrink or psychologist rich off of people who are lost and think some stupid book is going to change their lives.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

When people buy this junk,maybe one person in a thousand will find it helpful and he or she will recommend the book to everyone.If someone finds it useless they would never admit to buying it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I buy and read books to improve myself or to learn something new and I find that there is a lot of valuable information in good books. You just can't figure it's going to be a magic bullet. I'm not a huge reader (10-15 minutes before bed) so it takes time for me to finish them. Right now I'm reading the 48 laws of power, which shares some vague similarities to The Art of War by Sun Tzu, and those are about learning strategy. I've got about 3 other books in my stack that I'll get to soon. My favorite relationship type of self help book was how to be a 3% man, and that was because I was already doing many of the things he advocates so it resonated with me. The book itself has a lot of fluff and self-praise by the author but the basic ideas are pretty sound. I'd say that I've learned a lot and become a better version of myself by selectively implementing things from the various books.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

I do that too.. Start reading a book from the library and won't finish... The past couple months when I'm annoyed and need to get out of the house, I'll go to the book store and read for a couple hours. I always feel so much better after.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Handy said:


> Some books are helpful but if you expect a relationship to improve, based on what was in the book, both or other people have to read the same book and buy into its concepts.


For exactly that reason, I liked "it takes one to tango" by Reilly, because it says things one partner can do without the other buying into it. I also think this is true of "no more mr nice guy" - no need to tell one's partner about it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I think self help books are like people and partners - not all of them are right for you but a few are. So when it comes to self help books it really becomes an issue as to whether it speaks to you or not. In some cases it just doesn't apply to you, so to read it would be a waste of time. OTOH, some books might apply to your situation and gaining another's insight can be a good thing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I've spent a decade reading real psychology books . They usually have more disclaimers, caveats, footnotes, and the like than a payday loan application. Even when we can prove stuff experimentally that's really all. It's the nature of the beast. It's a human mind, not a USB drive.

DIY self help books and books by "experts" rarely have such disclaimers. Some narrow things a lot, but most, dear God... its either the attack of the obvious (5 love languages), the universal blame game (NMMNG), or the solution to humanity's problems (MMSLP).


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

john117 said:


> I've spent a decade reading real psychology books . They usually have more disclaimers, caveats, footnotes, and the like than a payday loan application. Even when we can prove stuff experimentally that's really all. It's the nature of the beast. It's a human mind, not a USB drive.
> 
> DIY self help books and books by "experts" rarely have such disclaimers. Some narrow things a lot, but most, dear God... its either the attack of the obvious (5 love languages), the universal blame game (NMMNG), or the solution to humanity's problems (MMSLP).


I mainly agree, John.

But, almost all big relationship problems we see on here are people either:
1. Being ****s
2. Missing the obvious
3. A partner taking no responsibility/BSC

IRL, the people who give advice are the people who were ****s, stopped it a bit and now think they are gurus.

Then we have the missing the obvious, where the books can help.

Or a partner being utterly unreasonable, in which case nothing can help.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

True, but do we need books for recognizing or addressing 1 or 2?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> True, but do we need books for recognizing or addressing 1 or 2?


You will be surprised then by how often and how much significant others (like parents) try to convince people "what's the problem? You're the one who is paranoid."


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> You will be surprised then by how often and how much significant others (like parents) try to convince people "what's the problem? You're the one who is paranoid."


One of the first things I realized in behavioral psychology classes was that if one lacks sufficient "know thyself" skills to at least recognize the ballpark of what the issue is, success is going to be much harder, if not outright impossible to attain.

In this context, if someone is totally unaware of the ramifications of their actions (no help around the house, hours gaming or on social media or with the PTO or work) chances are you could feed them a self help book or three with a spoon and it won't make much difference.

Those who want a solution, can and often will be helped via self help books.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> One of the first things I realized in behavioral psychology classes was that if one lacks sufficient "know thyself" skills to at least recognize the ballpark of what the issue is, success is going to be much harder, if not outright impossible to attain.
> 
> In this context, if someone is totally unaware of the ramifications of their actions (no help around the house, hours gaming or on social media or with the PTO or work) chances are you could feed them a self help book or three with a spoon and it won't make much difference.
> 
> *Those who want a solution, can and often will be helped via self help books.*


I agree with the above. 

But a lot of brainwashing goes on among families, I suppose as a way to maintain the peace.

I remember in my 20s I was dating a guy in my hometown. Our families had known each other for a long (ie, his father had once dated my aunt .... and complained about her big feet)

After a couple of times being around my father, he told me, you father is so controlling. Not only had that thought not crossed my mind up to that point. but it took me about another 15 years to be able reinterpret certain moment with my father where he was indeed a controlling ass.

I think our society gives parents too much of a free pass with their kids.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> I mainly agree, John.
> 
> But, almost all big relationship problems we see on here are people either:
> 1. Being ****s
> ...





john117 said:


> True, but do we need books for recognizing or addressing 1 or 2?


There are times when we do.

I would say point 1 is not treatable by a book as they know they are bring ****s. 

Point 2 should be obvious, but often is not. To spouses will be genuinely shocked that telling your partners they are wrong all the time is not conducive to them being open, or that if you put on 100lb that your partner will be less attracted to you. 

No More Mr Nice Guy will hit a nerve with some men, even if they had ignored that every man they knew thought they were a prat.

MMSLP is useful for a man who thought kindness and working would be enough, or did not think to be concerned wien their wife slimmed down and got a promotion. 

I have not read 5LL, but there are certainly many women who think internally feeling that they are great wives should be enough, it might be useful to spell out to them that it might not be.

You have more than enough wisdom to write one of these books, I have no doubt about that. The depressing thing is that people who ignore you on the forum would treat your words with much greater respect if they are printed on a page.

The number of marriages it can help are relatively small. Our own suffer from (3) in your case is a mix of (1) with a pinch of (3) in my case. But, there are plenty out there with issues that fall into number (2) and for them, if they are both open, a book might genuinely help.

I agree MMSLP presents itself as a panacea. It suffers from, I think, a bit of old fashioned sexism. The woman is a passive object and by doing things right, she reponds as she should. He is actually very lucky to have such a woman. 

NMMNG suffers from being thrown at every bloke. But, I had a relationship last year with a woman who was married to such a man. Got on well with the Mothers at the school, into poetry, no male friends. She was upset at him not earning more money, he responded by doing more housework. Completely the wrong reaction. He could well have benefitted from reading it.

Even 5LL might well benefit people by using a little introspection and considering what they really want from their partner.

Otherwise, we are left with the general advice. You know who is most keen to give out marriage advice; spouses who were ****s to veyr patient spouses, started to be less ****ish and think it makes them experts on marriage. Them and the "It is the man's fault" mantra. Compared to that, these books are insightful and nuanced.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

john117 said:


> One of the first things I realized in behavioral psychology classes was that if one lacks sufficient "know thyself" skills to at least recognize the ballpark of what the issue is, success is going to be much harder, if not outright impossible to attain.
> 
> In this context, if someone is totally unaware of the ramifications of their actions (no help around the house, hours gaming or on social media or with the PTO or work) chances are you could feed them a self help book or three with a spoon and it won't make much difference.
> 
> Those who want a solution, can and often will be helped via self help books.


This is true!

The number of relationships that can be really saved by a book is tiny. The market of people who do not want a cure, but for the pain to go away is much bigger. As it is mainly women, "Why Men are Terrible and it is all Your Ex-Boyfriend's Fault" is always going to be the biggest market.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> This is true!
> 
> The number of relationships that can be really saved by a book is tiny. The market of people who do not want a cure, but for the pain to go away is much bigger. As it is mainly women, "Why Men are Terrible and it is all Your Ex-Boyfriend's Fault" is always going to be the biggest market.


ah, sigh, a lot of people are unreachable due to years of conditioning.

I've even paid good money to therapists to hear them say, "ah, she's your mother. she loves you so I wouldn't take that offensive remark that she made to you too seriously." It sometimes even takes a while for them to admit that something was offensive.

It seems that it's only in the last 15 years that that therapists -- at least those who publish -- to admit that despite they are your parents, you may never find peace with them ...... so just move on emotionally.

Wish that advice were around a long time ago.


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## Yvophi (Oct 4, 2017)

If you are looking to save your marriage. I highly recommend a book called, Us Against the World: How God's love conquers all. It covered every single topic you go through as a couple like infidelity, financial issues, regretting to marry and etc. it was an eye opener and now my relationship is being recovered

https://www.amazon.com/Us-Against-W...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1937741397


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

The four agreements...anybody read this? I was thinking last night about the second agreement which is "Don't take anything personally" I thought I kind of needed to remind myself of that. 

Yesterday a few things happened at work that bothered me, one was I was working with three others in a file room cleaning stuff up and the communication guy came in and wanted a pic so the three of them grabbed each other and put their arms around each other and posed for a pic and I was in the same room but not close but it bothered me that no one said to me hey get in here for a picture. Kind of made me feel like an outsider in that moment. I tried to not let it bother me but it did a little...I admit!

I think I have to take a step back and just come to work do my job and not let other people affect my day.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

Stating the obvious, but we are all so very different. Some are clueless about something I may see as a basic emotional skill. OTOH, my wife could probably run up a list of my EQ failings! 

We all have weak areas, and can learn from selected books such as Gottman's "7 Principles For Making Marriage Work".


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

Yvophi said:


> If you are looking to save your marriage. I highly recommend a book called, Us Against the World: How God's love conquers all. It covered every single topic you go through as a couple like infidelity, financial issues, regretting to marry and etc. it was an eye opener and now my relationship is being recovered
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Us-Against-W...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1937741397


that looks super religious.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

katies said:


> that looks super religious.


She is a big fan. Almost every post is encouraging people to buy it and supplying a link.

It is a same she does not know that author in anyway whatsoever, as she is a huge fan.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I read self help books all the time. I only admit that here anonymously. They give a little jolt of hope but I can't say one made any profound change in my life.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

highwood said:


> The four agreements...anybody read this? I was thinking last night about the second agreement which is "Don't take anything personally" I thought I kind of needed to remind myself of that.
> 
> Yesterday a few things happened at work that bothered me, one was I was working with three others in a file room cleaning stuff up and the communication guy came in and wanted a pic so the three of them grabbed each other and put their arms around each other and posed for a pic and I was in the same room but not close but it bothered me that no one said to me hey get in here for a picture. Kind of made me feel like an outsider in that moment. I tried to not let it bother me but it did a little...I admit!
> 
> I think I have to take a step back and just come to work do my job and not let other people affect my day.


I like the 4 Agreements but the book itself was pretty tedious. Read about half of it during a long layover then exchanged it before leaving the airport. The two that stand out as being very helpful for me are "Don't take anything personally" and "Do not assume". First one is the most challenging.

I've recommended a book several times here at TAM but have not received much response. "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a ****" by Mark Manson. Anyone else read this? Thoughts?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Idyit said:


> I like the 4 Agreements but the book itself was pretty tedious. Read about half of it during a long layover then exchanged it before leaving the airport. The two that stand out as being very helpful for me are "Don't take anything personally" and "Do not assume". First one is the most challenging.
> 
> I've recommended a book several times here at TAM but have not received much response. "*The Subtle Art of Not Giving a *****" by Mark Manson. Anyone else read this? Thoughts?


Hi @Idyit,

I've heard good things about "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a ****" but never read it. Maybe I'm incorrect, but isn't the target audience for that book supposed to be men?


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> Hi @Idyit,
> 
> I've heard good things about "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a ****" but never read it. Maybe I'm incorrect, but isn't the target audience for that book supposed to be men?


 @Lila Other than being written by a man and using pretty straightforward and often coarse language I don't think the book itself is directed at just men at all. 

The title and language is purposeful and does draw in a certain audience. Also, don't fear the title. It's no more about totally not giving a **** than NMMNG is about teaching men to be jerks. 

As the book progresses it lets up and the content becomes much more challenging. There is so much that I see on the pages of TAM that would benefit a lot from The Subtle Art. 

It's entertaining and a fairly easy read. If you have a bit of time I would highly recommend it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Idyit said:


> @Lila Other than being written by a man and using pretty straightforward and often coarse language I don't think the book itself is directed at just men at all.
> 
> The title and language is purposeful and does draw in a certain audience. Also, don't fear the title. It's no more about totally not giving a **** than NMMNG is about teaching men to be jerks.
> 
> ...


 Thanks @Idyit. You answered my follow on question about the book, "It's entertaining and a fairly easy read". I'll check it out. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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