# I think I just ended my 30 year marriage



## *IrishEyes*

I wish I could say this is my first time on a marriage related forum however, one of these online forums saved me 10 years ago after I found out my husband had been having a long term affair. Long story short, we toughed it out, went through several years of counseling - together and alone - and had a few very good years. And then he lost his job and his identity and we slid into the same old destructive dynamics and fast forward to this morning when I told him I couldn't go on any longer like this. Our lives have been on a financial and emotional downhill slide for over 5 years now and we are merely existing under the same roof with very little said between us that isn't anger filled or resentment filled. 

To say I've done all I can do to save our marriage is an understatement. My biggest mistake was that I fought for our marriage for the both of us. What came crashing down on me in the past several months is the realization that he did not and will not fight for this marriage. I am so alone, lonely and terrified of what the future holds for me and us, but I know I can no longer go on like this as I watch everything deteriorate around me. At 57 years old, I'm absolutely gutted and feel dead inside. I care about him and he is not a bad person. He's just a very wounded person who is riddled with self loathing and apathy. Most likely due to untreated pervasive depression of which he will do nothing about and get no help. 

We have no children yet our lives are, understandably after 30 years, complexly intertwined. I know he loves me, but his lack of self love and his destructive and impulsive nature is destroying me too. I can't think clearly to see or understand if this is the right thing yet I just don't have it in me to pick up the pieces for us both once again. Nor do I feel I should. It just isn't healthy. I have given him every chance to set things right with us down to telling him very clearly and simply what I need from him to save our marriage and I get nothing in return. 

As I was telling him this morning I think it's over I could see the pain in his face yet he just accepted it without even trying. Not that I think it would do much good at this point, but for the love of God, to just let a 30 year marriage disintegrate without even a little fight is so damn heartbreaking to me. And it also tells me a lot. Yet why do I feel on one hand it's over and I'm ready to leave this and on the other I'm hoping for a miracle? 

So here I am wondering what the hell will become of me/us. Oh, and did I mention we're flat broke? I'm 3 years into a business start-up, working 7 days a week at it and the business has just won an enormous contract which will begin to pay out in about 6 months. So my hands are tied to do anything legal at this point until the financial situation turns around. So I sit in limbo, gutted, grieving and feeling dead inside. 

OK people - that's my story. I'm 2 valiums into it today and am about to crack a bottle of wine open. I do not have a substance abuse problem - this is VERY unusual for me but I don't know of any other way to take the rawness out of this right now and it's almost too much to hold today. I could really use some words of wisdom from someone who's been here. I really need to hear from a voice of reason that I'll make it through this.


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## SunCMars

@*IrishEyes*



> I really need to hear from a voice of reason that I'll make it through this.


For this, 'that' to occur, you need to give us mins and the maxes.

At minimum what do you want?

Maximum is easy. You want him to straighten out, become whole again. Become a happy man, a contributing man.

The key to your salvation is your business target. That six month milestone.

Get him out of the house, He needs to get a job. Any job. That will lighten his mood.
Talk to friends and family, network, find him a job.

That and your husbands depression are pulling you down.
If the business goes in the black, your mood will start to lighten.

Your troubles will go down by half.

To be honest, it may be more than six months, it may be a year or two.

In the interim, tune him out. 

Cut off any money that he may squander.

Cut out the Valium altogether. 
Stick with the wine, for the short term only.


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## *IrishEyes*

Thanks for the reply SunCMars - At min, I want to detach for now. I don't want to get trapped in false hope, yet again, that things can be different. I have shoved him out the door to drive for Uber (a far way down from his previous role 10 years ago which adds insult to injury to his ego), but last night he got into an accident and nearly totaled the car. Uber is over for now. He's now out looking for any old job. That was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I really only have a microscopic glimmer of hope there'd be a miracle and I want to detach from that too. I truly think I want to move on. I actually get a moments of excitement thinking about a new life without this damn weight hanging over it. I yearn to find someone who can give AND receive love and doesn't have the extent of emotional baggage he has from growing up in an alcoholic/abusive family environment. I am ready for my life to be what it SHOULD have been all along. 

As for the valium - no worries. I only have 2 more left and no chance to get more. The wine? - considering an IV drip. ;-) Just want to escape the incredible sadness I'm feeling today.


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## Aspydad

I hope your joking about taking Valium and wine together. I consider that self destructive - is that your intent? You really think that will make things better?


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## *IrishEyes*

Thanks for your concern Aspydad. One glass of wine and 2 valium and staying there. No more. Just needed to take the edge off an incredibly emotional day. I have NEVER done this before, so not to worry. I come from a long line of substance abusers and I'm well aware of where this can go if I continue it. One day does not make me Marilyn Monroe tho imo. Half my closest friends are psychotherapists, so couldn't even get away with it for long even if I wanted to.


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## Cromer

I am sorry to read your story. I divorced after a 30 year marriage, and life is great!! It IS a huge weight lifted off of your world. There is nothing more amazing than having someone in your life who loves you back, hard, and in every way. I am a different person today, the person I should've been all along. Life's short, too short, to stay in a toxic situation. I had to learn that lesson after many years of pain.

ETA. It's unfortunate that money is a barrier right now, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Marc878

Help yourself you can't fix him.


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## *IrishEyes*

Thank you SO much for reaching out with your message Cromer. I really needed hear that. And I think I'm really starting to get that I can't fix him Marc878.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> Thank you SO much for reaching out with your message Cromer. I really needed hear that. And I think I'm really starting to get that I can't fix him Marc878.


It wasn't money that kept me trying in our marriage, it was the thought that I could "fix" my wife and staying for the kids. Over 10 years! When I finally internalized that the only person I could "fix" was myself, I made the decision. Yes, I waffled and came to TAM looking for advice, but mostly for a spine to pull the trigger. I wished that I'd found this site a long time ago.

Think of your marriage as an investment. What kind of return are you getting? Same with divorce. What kind of return would you get? It's hard to assess because you've been married for so long. I started detaching from my wife long before the divorce, and found out about her affairs after my feelings for her were "meh". When it boiled down to it, divorce wasn't something that I necessarily wanted, but definitely needed. It's hard to express how different my life is today, and so much more towards the better.

Maybe finances are keeping you trapped right now, but that doesn't stop you from planning and detaching. When I actually started planning my out, I experienced a sense of relief. I made a decision and had a new purpose. I got excited about it. The only thing was I still cared for my wife and dreaded hurting her. But in retrospect, she'd been hurting me for many years, and now it was time to do something for me. You are not alone, trust me.


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## arbitrator

Marc878 said:


> *Help yourself you can't fix him.*


*I agree, Marc! But I do hope that she will please stay off the wine and Valium as stress soothing agents ~ as they do not have a tendency to mix well!*


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## *IrishEyes*

Your words are a true lifeline right now Cromer. The financial situation is temporary as I've sunk everything I could make liquid into this business and it's just starting to get serious lift off. I have no doubt it will be very successful - have serious investors in it with me, etc. and this isn't my first business start-up. We also have a substantial retirement portfolio and real estate too. I will be able to afford the legal advice and cost of separating soon. 

Quite honestly, what I struggle most with is the sheer terror of possibly facing the rest of my life alone. I love being married and in a relationship. I love being an "us". And I love having someone I can share my life with. But I need a partner, not a liability. I know all I can fix is me, but I grew up a lonely child and that terror of being completely alone in the world has paralyzed me up till now. I'm still really struggling with it and I'm not quite sure how to get that tiger back in the cage when it is prowling around in my head.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> Your words are a true lifeline right now Cromer. The financial situation is temporary as I've sunk everything I could make liquid into this business and it's just starting to get serious lift off. I have no doubt it will be very successful - have serious investors in it with me, etc. and this isn't my first business start-up. We also have a substantial retirement portfolio and real estate too. I will be able to afford the legal advice and cost of separating soon.
> 
> Quite honestly, *what I struggle most with is the sheer terror of possibly facing the rest of my life alone.* I love being married and in a relationship. I love being an "us". And I love having someone I can share my life with. But I need a partner, not a liability. I know all I can fix is me, but I grew up a lonely child and that terror of being completely alone in the world has paralyzed me up till now. I'm still really struggling with it and I'm not quite sure how to get that tiger back in the cage when it is prowling around in my head.


I loved being an "us" and being married and having a complete family unit. I am a family man. But I finally came to the conclusion that I'd rather be alone than endure the pain that my marriage was inflicting on me, my dignity, and my self-worth. I know that fear, it's scary out there. I felt the same when I retired from the military. The unknown is always scary. But don't look at it that way, look at it as an opportunity. The same in business. A new business venture can be risky and scary. It could fail. But you take the risk anyway. Why? To have a chance at making something better.

As far as being alone, I had no intention of getting into another relationship so soon after my divorce. As a man in his early 50's, average looking but in good shape, not a perv and with his own money, I thought I'd have a shot someday. I hadn't dated in 34 years although I have great social skills, no one would ever accuse me of having game. When I last dated, you had to chase, woo, lure, etc. women yet they all had their pick of guys. Today? Dang, I was stupidly clueless. I had no idea that I'd be a hot commodity. I've been divorced since Oct yet have been in a relationship for over 4 months now with a wonderful woman who herself escaped a toxic marriage and a couple of bad relationships. I think you are undervaluing your future self because of where you are right now. I know that I did. As a friend of my GF said a couple of weeks ago "he wasn't on the market long" and my GF said "there's a reason".

Part of your planning an out should be focusing on self improvement and building confidence. Being married puts you in a rut. I'd always been one to work out but I had put on a few lbs and gotten a little lazy. I hadn't bought new clothes in years, and drove a 14 year old truck. So, I started a new workout plan and finally got my abs mostly back. I bought some new clothes and a new car. Started counseling. Some people joked that I was having a mid-life crisis, which I hated hearing because it was actually my way of self-improvement.

When the pain of your marriage outweighs the fear of the unknown after divorce, you will know what to do. In fact, you're posting here because you've been at that tipping point for a while. There is no way to predict the future after divorce, but what future do you predict if you stay in your marriage?


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## *IrishEyes*

Thank you Cromer. Wise and helpful words. Just getting this out and having these initial contacts here is very helpful. 10 years ago the infidelity boards saved my life and gave me the strength to try to mend our very broken marriage. I know I have to keep coming here to read and reach out for support. 

If I had to label where I'm at right now, I think I'd say I'm grieving. Grieving and grappling with fear. Starting a business is a no-brainer risk for me. Leaving a 30 year marriage - GAH!!! I do have moments where I feel a little excited about the possibilities and the opportunity, but then the fear swallows it up. One day at a time I guess ...... sigh.


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## Cromer

@*IrishEyes* You might consider asking a mod to move your thread to considering separation or divorce. You might get more input there. I sure needed it. It's good that you're joining the community, lots of support here although you won't agree with all of it. But that's a good thing.


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## happy as a clam

Sorry for what you’re going through. But you can DIE from mixing alcohol with benzodiazepines. Literally die. They are both depressants and can dangerously lower your heart rate and circulation. To the point where you fall asleep... and never wake up. 

For the love of Pete, please don’t ever do that again.


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## *IrishEyes*

Cromer said:


> @*IrishEyes* You might consider asking a mod to move your thread to considering separation or divorce. You might get more input there. I sure needed it. It's good that you're joining the community, lots of support here although you won't agree with all of it. But that's a good thing.


Cromer - looking all over and can't seem to figure out how to contact a mod. Can you help?


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## *IrishEyes*

Cromer said:


> @*IrishEyes* You might consider asking a mod to move your thread to considering separation or divorce. You might get more input there. I sure needed it. It's good that you're joining the community, lots of support here although you won't agree with all of it. But that's a good thing.


I would like to move this thread there Cromer. Have looked all over and can't figure out how to contact a mod. Help?


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## Cromer

@MEM2020 @MattMatt @farsidejunky OP would like to move her thread to Considering Divorce or Separation. Pretty please? Thanks!


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## farsidejunky

Done.


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## ABHale

Irisheyes, 

You might fear what the future holds and at these times remember that you have good friends that will be there when needed. 

No regrets through this. Your husband had a chance to fight for the marriage. That is something that you can’t change or fix. 

Have fun finding what life has for you.


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## Openminded

I was in R for several decades. I finally gave up although that was something I had fought so hard and for so long not to do. Was it easy? No. Was it worth it? Yes.


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## Get Real

It is scary to think about being on your own, but at this point your relationship is toxic and stress can get the best of you and that would not be fair. I am sure you have done all you could for many many years. I would not rush into getting divorced. Simply do what Cromer says. Set a time frame you are OK with, write down a list of things you want to accomplish. and invest in you! If a miracle happens and he changes then you being stronger would be better for both. I hope this is what happens.

Do not take the lack of interest on his part to move on as a reflection of how he feels about you. I think the behavior of a depressed person is like dealing with a drug addict. There is nothing you can do until they realize that they need help. 

By now, you have reached a point of no return, you understand how detrimental this relationship is. I can definitely relate. And the more you read the more people you will find living a very similar situation. You are healthy, you can be finantially secure, maybe give yourself a year to get used to the idea and strenghten yourself. I am sure by then, you will be ready.


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## BluesPower

*IrishEyes* said:


> Thank you Cromer. Wise and helpful words. Just getting this out and having these initial contacts here is very helpful. 10 years ago the infidelity boards saved my life and gave me the strength to try to mend our very broken marriage. I know I have to keep coming here to read and reach out for support.
> 
> If I had to label where I'm at right now, I think I'd say I'm grieving. Grieving and grappling with fear. Starting a business is a no-brainer risk for me. Leaving a 30 year marriage - GAH!!! I do have moments where I feel a little excited about the possibilities and the opportunity, but then the fear swallows it up. One day at a time I guess ...... sigh.


I wrote to somebody about the fear, of what exactly, the unknown. I agree with @Cromer about everthing in a lot of ways some of our stories are similar.

For me, for a long time I was done. The problem was (as it turned out she was a hidden drug addict) she was just too wasted to file for divorce. Kind of like someone who is depressed and does not want to get help for it. 

While I was never alone, I had a ton of "casual" GF's, what I did not expect was to fall in the relationship that I am in now. Healthy, a little obsessed with each other in a good way, loving, supportive, affectionate, supportive, and the list just goes on. We spoke this weekend about how we have never has this in our lives. My comment was maybe this is God's or just the unverse's way of rewarding us for all the crap we have been through. I maybe it is just chance, who knows. 

But I am not the only person that I know that put up with a level of S*** that is horrific, gets divorced, and finds what I believe is the love of my life...


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## Cromer

@*IrishEyes* Just checking in to see how you are doing, I hope well!


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## Thor

The best time to get divorced is when you can't afford it. When your finances turn around it will cost you a lot more!


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## *IrishEyes*

Cromer said:


> @*IrishEyes* Just checking in to see how you are doing, I hope well!


Doing OK Cromer. Thanks for checking in. We have been talking a bit, but I'm not backing off. I'm standing strong and keep letting him know consistently that things are at a breaking point. The day I posted here for the first time he'd said to me he wasn't completely clear what I wanted to see happen (thinking this was another passive-aggressive game because I couldn't have been clearer for many, many years) so I wrote a 10 point list and said I didn't ever want either one of us to be unclear as to why our marriage ended. If a miracle happens, he'll take that list seriously, get some help and shape up - but it may even be too late for that as far as I'm concerned. Not sure I can find the love again that I once had and keep feeling every day like I deserve so much more.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> Doing OK Cromer. Thanks for checking in. We have been talking a bit, but I'm not backing off. I'm standing strong and keep letting him know consistently that things are at a breaking point. The day I posted here for the first time he'd said to me he wasn't completely clear what I wanted to see happen (thinking this was another passive-aggressive game because I couldn't have been clearer for many, many years) so I wrote a 10 point list and said I didn't ever want either one of us to be unclear as to why our marriage ended. If a miracle happens, he'll take that list seriously, get some help and shape up - but it may even be too late for that as far as I'm concerned. Not sure I can find the love again that I once had and keep feeling every day like I deserve so much more.


Good to hear that you're doing okay. I was at the point that no list would've changed anything for my situation. I still say that going through the motions of planning everything to the last detail regarding your out is good to do. It gives your reality more clarity.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> Not sure I can find the love again that I once had and keep feeling every day like *I deserve so much more.*


Okay. I wanted to post specifically about this. You DO deserve more. I don't want to come across as advocating divorce if your situation is favorably salvageable, but it doesn't sound that way. I know that my situation wasn't, and I thought I deserved more. But frankly, I had no idea what "deserve more" looked like. I do now.

My "deserve more" has been asleep about 45 minutes (I'm a nite owl, so is she but can't be because she's got work early). I have an alarm set for 5:30 so I can make her breakfast before she leaves for work tomorrow. I spent the best week of my life in many years with my "deserve more" during her spring break a short time ago. My "deserve more" thinks of me all day, at least gauging by her texts. My "deserve more" does the little things that my XWW never did. My "deserve more" makes me want to be better; she doesn't drag me down. My "deserve more" makes me happy.

I know this is the fog. Our relationship doesn't have the weight of 30 years behind it, warts and all. But it is what I needed in my life. This is what I wanted with my XWW, but what I had with her was an illusion. She ruined it, not me. At this point in our lives, we need to have people around us who love, support and want to make us better.

We don't have a say in how we get hurt in our lives, but we do have a say in who can hurt us in the first place. I chose not to be hurt by my XWW anymore.


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## BluesPower

Cromer said:


> Okay. I wanted to post specifically about this. You DO deserve more. I don't want to come across as advocating divorce if your situation is favorably salvageable, but it doesn't sound that way. I know that my situation wasn't, and I thought I deserved more. But frankly, I had no idea what "deserve more" looked like. I do now.
> 
> My "deserve more" has been asleep about 45 minutes (I'm a nite owl, so is she but can't be because she's got work early). I have an alarm set for 5:30 so I can make her breakfast before she leaves for work tomorrow. I spent the best week of my life in many years with my "deserve more" during her spring break a short time ago. My "deserve more" thinks of me all day, at least gauging by her texts. My "deserve more" does the little things that my XWW never did. My "deserve more" makes me want to be better; she doesn't drag me down. My "deserve more" makes me happy.
> 
> I know this is the fog. Our relationship doesn't have the weight of 30 years behind it, warts and all. But it is what I needed in my life. This is what I wanted with my XWW, but what I had with her was an illusion. She ruined it, not me. At this point in our lives, we need to have people around us who love, support and want to make us better.
> 
> We don't have a say in how we get hurt in our lives, but we do have a say in who can hurt us in the first place. I chose not to be hurt by my XWW anymore.


Amen brother, preach on. 

And OP, I also want to add that I understand that the things @Cromer and I are taking about seem like some kind of dream land and we must both be crazy.

Now, no doubt that cromer is a somewhat better example and I don't advocate my path for everyone in any way. 

I was a bit of a ladies man in my youth and later life, and the last couple of years frankly I did a lot of damage, but OMG, it was fun. But if I was honest I was a little ****ty for a couple of years, not proud of it but it is what it is. 

But with my new GF, it is hard to describe what life is like. I have a person that loves me totally for me. A person that lifts me up and never pulls me down. A person that encourages me to be better instead of bringing out my bad side. 

A woman that makes me want to be a far better person than I ever have been. I have known a lot of woman, and some of them were really great. But this one as far as I can tell is the one for me. 

I never knew love like this existed and I though I was an expert at love, not even close. I met her completely by weird chance and I guess if you believe in Karma then I am finally getting a reward for the crap I have been though in my life. 

We both tell each other that we just never knew what love was supposed to be like. I know I never new. 

The level of happiness I have was totally unknown to me before her. 

I am not saying that anything is easy or that it will be easy. But I am saying that life does not have to be the way that it is for you. 

You deserve to be happy. I want you to keep telling yourself that.


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## *IrishEyes*

I truly appreciate the encouragement as it's much needed right now. I do believe I deserve more yet the cynic in me doesn't believe there is "more" out there for me. I came here to bust up limiting beliefs I have about that "more" so brace yourselves, because here comes my inner-cynic - I believe I'm only hearing from men on how great it is post divorce and how you've found wonderful women to be with. This may be my limiting belief but here goes - I think it's much easier for men to find someone in the 50's and 60's than women. And then I go right into - who would want me? I'm 57, extremely independent and the looks and the pounds just ain't what they used to be. Yes, I am working to get the pounds off, but the rest I can't do much about. I have this belief that decent men that come on the scene at this age go right for the cream of the crop - and I don't consider myself to be that (yeah, I know - have to work on that). But there you have it. That's my stopping point. And then I slide into, "better the devil you know" and begin talking myself out of even thinking about moving on from this marriage. 

Go ahead, let me have it. ;-)


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## Thor

Half of all divorced people over age 50 are men. So the pool of available singles is equally male and female. I'm the same age as you, btw.

What I've found is that generally people our age are looking for companionship and friendship. It isn't like dating in college, that's for sure! People aren't looking to start families, and we're all basically established in terms of jobs. There is a ton of social events which you can find on Meetup, Facebook, etc, which aren't specifically singles oriented. You will have a lot of freedom to do what you want.

I find I barely have time for dating. I've met a lot of good people and am involved in activities I wouldn't have done if I was still married. The transition period for me was about a year after moving out before I felt my new home and routine were "normal" after being married for over 30 yrs. So yes it is a change which does take some time to settle into.

All the good memories from the past are still with me, and my relationships with my kids and grandkids are as good as ever. You don't lose everything about the past, just the drama and turmoil of the bad marriage!


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## *IrishEyes*

Thanks Thor - that's really helpful. And I really appreciated that you added "You don't lose everything about the past, just the drama and turmoil of the bad marriage!" I think I was feeling like I had to wipe 30 years of my life off as if it didn't exist, in my own mind, if I move on from the marriage. I didn't even know that was hanging around in me as a belief until I read your words. Very helpful!


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## personofinterest

Dear IrishEyes, I feel a kinship with you

I'll share a story because I communicate best that way. I had a 12 year old car. It was a really good, well-rated car. It served faithfully. Then there was engine trouble. Leaking, components having issues, replaced the motor, replaced the brakes, replaced the transmission. For several months I drove it with a noise no one could diagnose. It stopped dead on the interstate and scared me to death. Threw a rod.

Now....theoretically, I could have replaced that rod and kept driving it. But you know what? I was tired of driving with low level fear all the time. I had bad credit thanks to a previous marriage, so who knew if I culd get a car loan. But...I was just done. The price of fixing the old car wasn't worth it. So I bought another one. Terrible interest rate, payments that are really higher than they should be.

It was so freaking worth it.

I did the same in my marriage. Tried for years to resurrect the "dead and don't care." I got to the point that even if he had magically morphed into ChanningTatum, Bill Gates, and Casinova all in one, it would have been too little too late. I didn't have a good job. We weren't in a good place financially. But one day I just knew I couldn't take it any more. Not one more day. I was in my late 40's.

I've been divorced awhile now, and I met an amazing man, and we married. I am not sure I ever knew what it meant to be happy in a relationship until now.

Don't let fear rule. You will prevail.


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## Betrayedone

I was able to delete my 24 year marriage from my database entirely. Like those disaster cleanup companies say......"Like it never happened"


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## Openminded

I'm female and I divorced in my 60's after a very long marriage. I couldn't be happier with my life after divorce. 

If you look for excuses to remain in a bad marriage, you'll find them. I did for a long time. My only regret is that I didn't get out sooner than I did.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> I truly appreciate the encouragement as it's much needed right now. I do believe I deserve more yet the cynic in me doesn't believe there is "more" out there for me. I came here to bust up limiting beliefs I have about that "more" so brace yourselves, because here comes my inner-cynic - I believe I'm only hearing from men on how great it is post divorce and how you've found wonderful women to be with. This may be my limiting belief but here goes - I think it's much easier for men to find someone in the 50's and 60's than women. And then I go right into - who would want me? I'm 57, extremely independent and the looks and the pounds just ain't what they used to be. Yes, I am working to get the pounds off, but the rest I can't do much about. I have this belief that decent men that come on the scene at this age go right for the cream of the crop - and I don't consider myself to be that (yeah, I know - have to work on that). But there you have it. That's my stopping point. And then I slide into, "better the devil you know" and begin talking myself out of even thinking about moving on from this marriage.
> 
> Go ahead, let me have it. ;-)


I have something to say but I need to think about it for a bit first. But you are doing what I did, undervaluing yourself. More to follow my friend.


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## Handy

IrishEyes, some man will want you,that is for sure. What you need to determine is, will you want him?

About your H's depression, I will bet he doesn't grasp how deeply it is affecting him. Some people can't see what they can't see until it is too late or something bad happens.


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## *IrishEyes*

Handy said:


> IrishEyes, some man will want you,that is for sure. What you need to determine is, will you want him?
> 
> About your H's depression, I will bet he doesn't grasp how deeply it is affecting him. Some people can't see what they can't see until it is too late or something bad happens.


Both good points Handy. And I'm no stranger to depression and its insidiousness. I'm Irish - it's a cultural norm. And while I'm at it with the Irish culture - marriage/depression/misery is the accepted "trifecta" of the marital condition. As the infamous John B Keane once said, "marriage is an ongoing war between two people with temporary outbreaks of peace". This is what I come from. This is what I've accepted to be "normal" for far too long.


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## BluesPower

Openminded said:


> I'm female and I divorced in my 60's after a very long marriage. I couldn't be happier with my life after divorce.
> 
> If you look for excuses to remain in a bad marriage, you'll find them. I did for a long time. My only regret is that I didn't get out sooner than I did.


To take @Openminded 's point even further. 

I have never ever spoke to one person that said they were sorry that they divorced when they did. Every single one of them wish they had divorced sooner rather than later. Every single one without exception!


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## Lukedog

Hi @IrishEyes! I am just picking up on your thread now. I am sorry to hear that you are where you are, and I can relate to your situation. I really don't have any words of advise or wisdom because I am still circulating in my 23 year marriage, the last 8 years or so completely a sham, and I haven't found the courage to leave yet (one of these days I will). But I can say this: There comes a point in time, in your marriage, in your life, that you have to start living for you. You can't live for your spouse, or your children, or your parents. You can't continue to live for your husband, trying to fix him, or his issues, and living in his depression. It just brings you down, especially when they have no desire, or willpower, or self-love to TRY to rise above and help themselves. It is heart-wrenching to watch them self-destruct, and it leaves you powerless to do anything to help them (whatever the issue is, be it depression, addiction, alcoholism, sexual dysfunction, etc.). I live with one of those, and believe me, it does suck the very soul from your body. It drains the life from you and leaves you with nothing left to give. A good friend told me a few months ago, after we had talked about things and my future plans and what I wanted to do (about my situation), and after I came up with yet another "excuse", she said "You just need to do it. No excuses, no more planning, just leave". So, OP, detach (I have years of detachment in) and formulate your plan to exit. But don't take too long. The longer you wait and plan the harder it becomes to actually leave. Do it. I'll be reading and routing for you.


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## ABHale

*IrishEyes* said:


> I truly appreciate the encouragement as it's much needed right now. I do believe I deserve more yet the cynic in me doesn't believe there is "more" out there for me. I came here to bust up limiting beliefs I have about that "more" so brace yourselves, because here comes my inner-cynic - I believe I'm only hearing from men on how great it is post divorce and how you've found wonderful women to be with. This may be my limiting belief but here goes - I think it's much easier for men to find someone in the 50's and 60's than women. And then I go right into - who would want me? I'm 57, extremely independent and the looks and the pounds just ain't what they used to be. Yes, I am working to get the pounds off, but the rest I can't do much about. I have this belief that decent men that come on the scene at this age go right for the cream of the crop - and I don't consider myself to be that (yeah, I know - have to work on that). But there you have it. That's my stopping point. And then I slide into, "better the devil you know" and begin talking myself out of even thinking about moving on from this marriage.
> 
> Go ahead, let me have it. ;-)


The devil you know verses the devil you don’t.


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## Cromer

*IrishEyes* said:


> I believe I'm only hearing from men on how great it is post divorce and how you've found wonderful women to be with. This may be my limiting belief but here goes - *I think it's much easier for men to find someone in the 50's and 60's than women.* And then I go right into - who would want me? I'm 57, extremely independent and the looks and the pounds just ain't what they used to be. Go ahead, let me have it. ;-)


That is not reality talking. My mother was married seven times, and she put on some serious lbs before she found her last, and by far the best, husband of them all when she was 63. She ended up shatting all over him. He was a widower who had been married for 28 years to his first wife and basically lived to support her during her 2-year cancer fight. He was the kindest and most loyal, hardworking, and gentlest soul you'd ever meet. My mother threw him away for an online EA after 5 years of marriage. For my mother, love = hormonal rush, which we know doesn't last. What a waste.

Dating happens long before dating, and it has to do with confidence and self-esteem. Basically, coming to terms with "if he/she isn't interested in me, then f* them" kinda attitude. You can't use the media standards of beauty to place a value on yourself. People notice confidence and attitude. Now, the reason I'm being careful in my words here. GF vs XWW. 

You may not know my story, but my XWW was a stunner. We're talking Lynda Carter kinda stunner. If my GF and XWW were together in a room, there is no question that men's eyes would immediately choose my XWW out of the lineup. She was also in crazy good shape until the divorce. We're talking wear a bikini and make young guys stare at the beach as a 50+ yo woman. Gravity hadn't fully taken its toll, and even if it had it wouldn't matter much. 

For GF, she was a lot curvier. I say was because since we've been serious, she's lost over 20 lbs and it really shows. I liked her curvy, but she wants to lose even more weight. Why? Because I'm certain that she feels like she's competing against the XWW, or some media standard of body beauty, but she's not!! Her body wasn't what drew me to her even though I really liked the way she was. I think she's beautiful but as a realist, I know that some superficial men wouldn't give her another look, and that's their loss. I'm not gonna lie, she's rocking a bikini right now and it's nice but it wouldn't matter to me. I absolutely LOVE her company, everything about it. Her intellect, humor, playfulness...all of it. And, ahem, the sex. She knows what she's doing 0

So...yes, I'm a man and it is easy for me to say that you can/will find someone. I wouldn't be the first choice for many women in a line-up, f* them their loss. I'm so happy with the woman in my life right now, I just wished sometimes that she would be happier with herself. No one knows an object's true value until it hits the market. I am certain that you are undervaluing yourself. Don't let this stop you from making the best decision for your life.


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## Handy

Like Cromer is saying, the quality of the person far out weighs their looks.


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## BluesPower

Cromer said:


> That is not reality talking. My mother was married seven times, and she put on some serious lbs before she found her last, and by far the best, husband of them all when she was 63. She ended up shatting all over him. He was a widower who had been married for 28 years to his first wife and basically lived to support her during her 2-year cancer fight. He was the kindest and most loyal, hardworking, and gentlest soul you'd ever meet. My mother threw him away for an online EA after 5 years of marriage. For my mother, love = hormonal rush, which we know doesn't last. What a waste.
> 
> Dating happens long before dating, and it has to do with confidence and self-esteem. Basically, coming to terms with "if he/she isn't interested in me, then f* them" kinda attitude. You can't use the media standards of beauty to place a value on yourself. People notice confidence and attitude. Now, the reason I'm being careful in my words here. GF vs XWW.
> 
> You may not know my story, but my XWW was a stunner. We're talking Lynda Carter kinda stunner. If my GF and XWW were together in a room, there is no question that men's eyes would immediately choose my XWW out of the lineup. She was also in crazy good shape until the divorce. We're talking wear a bikini and make young guys stare at the beach as a 50+ yo woman. Gravity hadn't fully taken its toll, and even if it had it wouldn't matter much.
> 
> For GF, she was a lot curvier. I say was because since we've been serious, she's lost over 20 lbs and it really shows. I liked her curvy, but she wants to lose even more weight. Why? Because I'm certain that she feels like she's competing against the XWW, or some media standard of body beauty, but she's not!! Her body wasn't what drew me to her even though I really liked the way she was. I think she's beautiful but as a realist, I know that some superficial men wouldn't give her another look, and that's their loss. I'm not gonna lie, she's rocking a bikini right now and it's nice but it wouldn't matter to me. I absolutely LOVE her company, everything about it. Her intellect, humor, playfulness...all of it. And, ahem, the sex. She knows what she's doing 0
> 
> So...yes, I'm a man and it is easy for me to say that you can/will find someone. I wouldn't be the first choice for many women in a line-up, f* them their loss. I'm so happy with the woman in my life right now, I just wished sometimes that she would be happier with herself. No one knows an object's true value until it hits the market. I am certain that you are undervaluing yourself. Don't let this stop you from making the best decision for your life.


This is great, but I will add this.

I assure you @*IrishEyes*, based on the number of women that I have known, that you actually don't understand how attractive you already are. 

To a woman, not one of them, even the knockouts that I have been with, actually had a realistic picture of their actual physical beauty. 

Even Current GF does not think she is pretty, which I told her is crap. Plus, not to be too arrogant, but I would not be with her is she was not pretty. Not that I only look at outward beauty, because I don't, but you have to start somewhere. 

What is actually funny about her, is that she is so attractive, that at our main club where I play sometimes, all of the guys were so intimidated by her good looks that they would not ask her out. And since I was not a *****, and I snatched her up, to a certain extent they hate me at some level. 

They are not overt about it, but it does make me laugh. The way that I look at it, all is fair in love and war...


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## *IrishEyes*

Gentlemen - you guys ROCK!! I can't tell you how much this is helping me. So much so, I'm actually taking inventory of all I DO have to offer and, brace yourselves, I'm beginning to see that maybe, just maybe... I'm all that AND a bag of feckin chips! I'm also ready to begin a deep dive into my fear of being alone - because it isn't real that I would be. I intellectually know that, but the lonely child still resides within me. The truth of my life is that it's chock full of very good and loving friends - some for so long, I actually have pictures of us in nappies and a playpen together. While I don't have children of my own, I have several nieces and nephews who are like my own and now they are having children of their own and I'm reveling in the pseudo-grandparent thing. It's that lonely child and the fears she still carries I have to get under control or it will sabotage me, once again, to have the life I deserve. You're all stuck with me now for awhile as I move through this ;-). I have to say, I feel surrounded by support here and love that I have a safe place to come process all this without having to manage anyone else's feelings about it as I would those in my life.


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## Cromer

I don't know how much of a safe place this is but I'm damn sure not going to judge you. I struggled for years before I decided to get out. I stayed for the kids and the hope that things would change. What that decision did was end up changing me, and in ways that I didn't like. Now I am free to be me and be intimate with a woman I care about, and it's a whole new life. The entire world looks different to me now. It is hard to explain.

I like the idea of listing the things that you have to offer, but I will tell you that you will miss something. There are intangibles. Have you thought about having your H list the things that you have to offer him? Or have him list what he offers you? If he sees the imbalanced ledger, would it mean anything? Maybe not to him but perhaps to you? I have a sneaking suspicion that if I knew you irl that I'd see you entirely differently than you see yourself.

ETA. I just reread your first post. You deserve and need so much better. Damn.


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## BluesPower

Cromer said:


> I don't know how much of a safe place this is but I'm damn sure not going to judge you. I struggled for years before I decided to get out. I stayed for the kids and the hope that things would change. What that decision did was end up changing me, and in ways that I didn't like. Now I am free to be me and be intimate with a woman I care about, and it's a whole new life. The entire world looks different to me now. It is hard to explain.
> 
> I like the idea of listing the things that you have to offer, but I will tell you that you will miss something. There are intangibles. Have you thought about having your H list the things that you have to offer him? Or have him list what he offers you? If he sees the imbalanced ledger, would it mean anything? Maybe not to him but perhaps to you? I have a sneaking suspicion that if I knew you irl that I'd see you entirely differently than you see yourself.
> 
> ETA. I just reread your first post. You deserve and need so much better. Damn.


Preach on brother, preach on!
@*IrishEyes*, For me I was so miserable for a thousand reasons, and not to re-write history, none of those reasons were about be. I did not know if she could take care of herself, She was always sick (read drug addict). How would she survive, would the kids have to take care of her, on and on and on. 

It was not until, right before she got sober (26 years) that I actually understood what I have been dealing with all of those years, and buddy I was done. 

I had give 1/2 of my life to someone who could not have cared less, I was just easy and I took care of her. It is the best thing that I have ever done. 

To give an example of what Cromer was talking about. My GF saw a picture of me, my youngest, and my ex for some type of award that he got. It was a big deal, it was a great achievement for him and it should have been a happy picture. 

My GF, said, "My God, you look completely and totally miserable, I have never seen your face look like that." I looked at the picture and it was a completely different person that I was looking at. That guy was projecting unhappiness with every part of his countenance, the look on my face horrified me. 

I will never be that guy again...


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## *IrishEyes*

Cromer said:


> I like the idea of listing the things that you have to offer, but I will tell you that you will miss something. There are intangibles. Have you thought about having your H list the things that you have to offer him? Or have him list what he offers you? If he sees the imbalanced ledger, would it mean anything? Maybe not to him but perhaps to you? I have a sneaking suspicion that if I knew you irl that I'd see you entirely differently than you see yourself.
> 
> ETA. I just reread your first post. You deserve and need so much better. Damn.


I'm well past lists Cromer. That imbalance has been illustrated more times than I can count over the years, in and out of therapists offices. I only gave him my list the other day because he said he still wasn't quite clear about what has caused the breakdown of our marriage. I handed it to him saying, "Just so you'll never wonder why it ended, this is as clear as I can make it for you." That was several days ago and not one word of discussion from him after that. He's avoiding me, doing the usual - hoping it will all blow over. Not this time!!! 

As of this morning I've told 4 people close to me our marriage is in big trouble and I don't see it getting better. No one was surprised. I just hung up with the 4th, and I think most difficult one - my 90 year old father who I adore and don't want to upset. He was choking up by the end of the conversation which literally ripped my heart out. God, this is hard!! REAL hard. Please keep telling me it's worth it. I really can't hear that enough right now. 

Thank you all for this support. It's truly a lifeline!


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## Coach23

Hello IrishEyes, 

I to have been married for over 30 years. I suffer from depression and I know it. It’s a tough battle, something I fight all the time. It didn't help the 4 years into my marriage and a one year old child I found out my wife had been having an affair. That is a different story. My mother once said something profound to me. She said it seems to her that I enjoyed feeling down & sorry for myself. That seemed stupid at first, but when I started really thinking about it I realized there was some truth to it. It for a crazy (still kind of unknown) reason was a place of comfort emotionally for me. it was a known feeling, one I just seemed to accept and would roll with day after day, because it was easier than putting in the effort to change and be positive. I feel for your husband. It is difficult to recognize all that could be with a change of attitude. With that said, I cannot and would not blame anyone who has put in the effort to help the one they love, and save the marriage as it seems you have. There does come a point that you have to move forward even when it means leaving someone you care about behind. A person has to want to help themselves for anything to truly change. We are only here for the blink of an eye, you should enjoy life to its fullest for as much time as you can.


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## Oldtimer

Ah it’s good to be Irish, mind you in my case it’s just a part of my mongrel makeup. Irish, I’m sorry to see you here and read of your issue. When I pulled the trigger of divorce on my wife, I sat at the computer for a few days not really doing much, just staring at the tool that was hugely to blame for my marriage breakdown. I won’t bore you with the details.

It’s was like someone took a shillelagh to the back of my head! I woke from my trance, drank some water and said f this, I’ve got a life. 4 teen boys to feed and keep moving. I stunk, was out of work, looked like something from skid row.

I shaved, yes even mongrels shave, took a shower and dressed as best I could. That very day, I went out looking for a steady job that would keep us going. I got a job that day. 

My life changed much for the better, we prospered to some degree, I remarried at 50 and have never looked back. Wife and I have a blended group of 8 kids, 17 grandkids and are slowly settling into our golden years.

The point I’m trying to make through this long winded post, is you should never give up. You are a beautiful woman and I mean your soul as it comes out through your writing.

You will succeed at your endeavours and when you cut the loss you are suffering now, you will not be alone. I found my soulmate at 50 and there will be one for you..

May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields.


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