# Cuckold Lifestyle - Extreme result of the "Nice Guy" phenomena?



## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Disclaimer: I'm not in cuckold relationship, and have no desire to adopt one. 

I don't remember exactly when I first heard about this particular kink, but I've had a growing interest. As stated, having just figured myself out, throwing out the vast majority of my "nice guy" behavior, I've no desire to become involved. It does however hold a kind of perverse fascination for me. 

Additionally, I've just picked up Robert Glover's, _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ - about two weeks too late to serve as anything other than validation and confirmation of my own feelings and the changes that I've made - but, reading it has got me wondering if the growing popularity of the cuckold lifestyle is a kind of extreme result of the "nice guy" phenomena.

For those who don't know about the lifestyle, I'll give a bit of a primer. 

This particular kink seems to be popular among white middle-aged, middle-class married couples, but it's by no means limited to these folks. There's a number of ways to fall into it, but it seems that it's most basic form is that of an open marriage where it's only the woman who sleeps around. She's the "hot-wife;" a sexually aggressive, promiscuous, dominating and typically attractive woman who actively seeks out and pursues purely sexual relationships with strong, alpha male "bulls." This is done with the full knowledge, acceptance and support of her "****" or "cuckold" husband. 

Naturally, there are a lot of trappings that go along with this kind of arrangement which may or may not be present. For a few examples: There seems to be a predilection for black male bulls, as they seem to be perceived as being physically superior to the **** husband. Penis size seems to be a major fixation; part of the ****'s inadequacy is his relatively small or average penis. Sometimes, but not always, the **** is expected, or expects to watch the bull have sex with the hot-wife. The **** may be expected to orally service his hot-wife after the bull has had his way with her. 

This is just to name a few.

Now, promiscuity among women is nothing new to the human species. If our literary history is any indication, there used to be a lot of concern about female promiscuity. In Shakespeare, and many other writings, it would seem that a cuckold is an object of ridicule and derision by social custom. Such a male is perceived as weak and unmanly of course. 

What seems to be different about the modern incarnation of the cuckold lifestyle is that husbands are actively embracing this activity. Having lurked on a few of their forums, it seems that these husbands often encourage their partners to go out and have extra-marital affairs. They seem to WANT to be sexually humiliated by their wives, and the lovers that their wives often bring home. And what makes me think, is that while fetishes and kinks are a relatively normal part of the human sexual spectrum, this is a whole lifestyle that seems to go well beyond kinky sex. That, and it seems to be growing in popularity by leaps and bounds. 

The mask seems to have slipped off this lifestyle in recent months. Jack King was, or is, a Manitoba lawyer who asked a former client to have sex with his wife. This story wouldn't have amounted to much these days, but for the fact that the wife in question is, or was, a recently appointed Manitoba judge. I've not followed the story much, so please excuse the lack of details. It's been widely publicized if anyone feels like digging up the dirt.

So, the question I'm pondering now is, isn't this lifestyle an extreme manifestation of the "nice guy" phenomena? It seems that these submissive males can't accept themselves, and have chosen instead to wallow in a kind of self-deprecating depravity.

It also occurs to me that if this is so, and if this is indeed gaining wider and wider popularity, then western culture seems to be in serious trouble. Emasculated males are males who strike me as being incapable of "manning up" and doing the hard things that men have always done. To have such an apparently large population of them is a bit disturbing.

So, I'm putting it out to those who think about marriage as much and as deeply as I do. 

What do you folks think about the cuckold lifestyle? Is it essentially just the "nice guy" phenomena taken to its logical extent?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It certainly looks that way.

What's in it for the women? Adventurousness, thrills, etc. - but they don't have to surrender the security of their "****".

Cake eating behavior taken to the extreme.

And, the **** doesn't have the balls to stop it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The cuckold/hotwife 'lifestyle' is a product of sick f*ck minds.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

morituri said:


> The cuckold/hotwife 'lifestyle' is a product of sick f*ck minds.


Damn right Mori!

Those are the same ones out swinging and cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I've heard it suggested that some men enjoy their "hot wife" enjoying passion generated by another man.

I've written this before - and I meant every word. I do not know what planet I'd have to be on to tune into that channel.

Nor do I want to know.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Conrad, while I can understand and appreciate your reluctance to want to think about this... I'm of the opinion that we're soon going to have no choice in the matter.

I'd like the forums to feel free to speculate and play with this idea.

My personal take is that this phenomena is toxic. It's a cancer that is rotting and destroying our society from within. I'm starting to seriously worry about this. But I don't want to checker the discussion with my own feelings.

Far be it for me to deny anyone their genuine kink, but this smells like serious trouble. It's like we're just begging for the barbarians at the gates to come storming through and destroy everything we've tried to build in the west. Nice guys are in that sense trouble. And the women must be aware that this can't be good; these forums are littered with victims of various stripes. But we all seem powerless to do much about this trend. I get the sense that we're fighting a growing tidal wave of emasculation which sweeping through and destroying our most deeply held values. 

As an historian, I'm worried. This looks, and smells like serious civilization destroying trouble.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

My take is that inadequate men who cannot enjoy sex with their wives due to low self esteem then objectify their wives, turning them into whorse in order to compenat. They use their wives like porn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Two issues:

The cuckhold lifestyle, I'm not aware of a growing trend and find this interesting to read that it is so popular. 

I will say, years ago my uncle, I assume was involved in this, as he befriended a married couple, and being divorced and single himself, eventually moved in the same house with her and her husband. 

I was a youth during this time, and although I was aware that my uncle was most certainly having sex with this married woman, it didn't even occur to me until my own father made a comment about the sad situation of his brother and what kind of man was this married woman's husband, that this husband fully knew about it and tolerated it!

And the second issue, the danger of emasculated men to halting forward progress of technology and social stability.

I posted this thread not long ago, very much along this same line of thinking:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/26835-women-hating-nice-guys-end-civilization.html

So it is, the buildings we live and work in, the technology that drives the computers that we type, the science that drives our modern medicine, the airplanes that we fly on, the trucks that transport our goods, the very roads they drive upon and the cities they travel between, all these all are products of science, engineering, and construction flowing from the sharp minds and strong hands of the many good men that came before us.

So that which in a broad scale stands against strong, masculine, decisive men, and instead encourages the wholesale emasculation of men, should not be considered benign nor treated lightly.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't think these are nice guys at all. Nice guys don't push for their wives to have sex with other men. It serves the purpose of the men. If I recall most stories I have heard, the women go into this reluctantly at first. The men push for it as a warped solution to their feelings of inadequacy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> I don't think these are nice guys at all. Nice guys don't push for their wives to have sex with other men. It serves the purpose of the men. If I recall most stories I have heard, the women go into this reluctantly at first. The men push for it as a warped solution to their feelings of inadequacy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Cuckolding has been around for centuries, and in modern times is typically regarded as a fetish. I would hope that it is a very small segment of the population engaging in it. 

I am more concerned that the disintegration of the family unit in our modern times from many different factors and the general laxness of morality in our society (of which I agree cuckolding is hopefully a very small contributing factor) will more greatly affect the 'slide' of civilization.

And to BBW, I am assuming you did not purposefully forget about the many contributions that women have made and currently are making in our society? Since I have an engineering degree and am gainfully employed in keeping some of those modern contrivances you mentioned going, I would not like to think you meant they could be kept going by only the men of the world. I think to keep everything going it will take the concerted effort of both men and women working together.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Amen to that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Cuckolding has been around for centuries, and in modern times is typically regarded as a fetish. I would hope that it is a very small segment of the population engaging in it.


That segment appears to be growing. 

And while extra marital affairs have been around forever, as a society, we always used to look down on such men who turned a blind eye to their unfaithful wives. This particular phenomena seems to be something new. And as a society, we don't seem to be actively condemning this new trend. Perhaps we've forgotten the importance of family, and self reliance. In an age of rampant political correctness, what can we say?



Enchantment said:


> I am more concerned that the disintegration of the family unit in our modern times from many different factors and the general laxness of morality in our society (of which I agree cuckolding is hopefully a very small contributing factor) will more greatly affect the 'slide' of civilization.


A fair assessment. I suggest that cuckolding in the west, while problematic, it isn't the disease, it's an indicator. It strikes me as a huge red flag that we don't seem to be seeing at the moment. 

Cuckolding as an indicator suggests to me that we're in a much more precarious position than we like to thing. We appear to be risking a spectacular fall. 

I agree with Big Bad Wolf. This is serious and it could be very dangerous.


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## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll admit, I've fantasized about my wife having sex with another man, or engaging in a MMF threesome with her. But, I have no desire whatsoever to act on it, and if it happened behind my back, hopefully I'd be in a good mood when I found out otherwise somebody might catch a bullet.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Soupnutz said:


> I'll admit, I've fantasized about my wife having sex with another man, or engaging in a MMF threesome with her. But, I have no desire whatsoever to act on it, and if it happened behind my back, hopefully I'd be in a good mood when I found out otherwise somebody might catch a bullet.


Well, knowing 2 swinger couples I don't think its Mr.nice guy at all, at least not in my experience. The two Guys I know just totally get off watching......and its not any guy they like too watch porn star Hung guys with their wives. One couple is married 10 years the other 7 .......its pretty popular fetish in certain circles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

There's a difference between this lifestyle and swinging. When you're swinging, both partners can fool around with people outside the marriage.

In a true cuckold relationship, the woman has pretty much free reign. The male is expected to be celibate, or near celibate.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

fhg1893 said:


> There's a difference between this lifestyle and swinging. When you're swinging, both partners can fool around with people outside the marriage.
> 
> In a true cuckold relationship, the woman has pretty much free reign. The male is expected to be celibate, or near celibate.


Look, if you want to see a greater threat than the silly 'hotwife/cuckold' crap, just go over to the 'coping with infidelity' forum and read the real life tragic stories.

It was bad enough when the cuckolds were women but now it has gotten worse because of female infidelity. This type of infidelity has practically caught up with male infidelity and we're seeing more and more stories of husbands whose wives have cheated or are cheating on them.

Another greater threat that you should consider, is the proliferation of the male player who targets married women. This human vermin exists. There are more sites dedicated to how to seduce women, no matter their marital status, than hotwife/cuckold sites.

INMNSHO the 'hotwife/cuckold' lifestyle will always be a minor threat compared to the ones I stated above.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> Look, if you want to see a greater threat than the silly 'hotwife/cuckold' crap, just go over to the 'coping with infidelity' forum and read the real life tragic stories.
> 
> It was bad enough when the cuckolds were women but now it has gotten worse because of female infidelity. This type of infidelity has practically caught up with male infidelity and we're seeing more and more stories of husbands whose wives have cheated or are cheating on them.
> 
> ...


I was aware of the Pick-up Artist thing. I didn't know there were guys who specifically targeted married women...

If any such person is foolish enough to target my wife, they might just catch some double-aught buck for their trouble.

While your criticism seems valid from a purely individual perspective, I'm concerned about this as a cultural phenomenon. As far as I know, this is unprecedented. Modern men would seem to me to need to be more alpha, more manly. Instead they've gone in the opposite direction, becoming more and more beta. Why would any man want this? What could possibly have happened to emasculate men enough to make them push their wives into the arms of other men? What does this mean for us as a civilization/society/culture? If this trend continues, what's the outcome?

That's what I'm trying to get at.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I wouldn't mind either way. I would just spit on her every time I saw her. If that's not part of her plan, she's free to leave.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

After my wife went for the black bulls on her own accord (without my knowledge or consent) I soon found out about this whole cuckold lifestyle thing. It infuriates me. I am the stud, not some disease ridden player at some night club. Anyways, it has also fascinated me in the sense that it has given a little more insight into heterosexual LTR's, and the whole alpha/beta, nice-guy/bad-boy philosophy (I'm not sure I buy into the "hot-wife" idea, just hormones in general). I realize that there is at least a shred of truth to this, even though to embrace it could certainly be toxic. But in my view there is something amuck in modern society - this weekend I took my son to play at a playground (like I always do since my W has been off living her new free life) and realized that at the park there was one other family, one nursing mother alone with an infant and a toddler, and about a dozen fathers all taking care of multiple children, I couldn't help but wonder what the other 95% of the mothers were out and about doing?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree it is a sick perversion, but that's all it is. To lay it out as a symbol of our society going downhill is a bit of a stretch though. It may be increasing, but increasing from a tiny minority to a tiny minority +. The one or two forums I went on after reading your post appeared to be more of a "Penthouse Forum" type of format than a true "here's what's going on in my life" forum.

Someone hit it a little earlier. There have been quite a few threads lately that indicate women are really trying to catch up in the infidelity department. The GNO's, Bachelorette parties, acting single. Basically "It's my turn" reasoning for a little extramarital action. I would say that's what is causing the increase more than anything.

We're REALLY in trouble if this is being caused by women, after 5,000 years of civilization, are finally figuring out they've held the power all along. If that's happening, we men are screwed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

MrK said:


> I agree it is a sick perversion, but that's all it is. To lay it out as a symbol of our society going downhill is a bit of a stretch though. *It may be increasing, but increasing from a tiny minority to a tiny minority* +. The one or two forums I went on after reading your post appeared to be more of a "Penthouse Forum" type of format than a true "here's what's going on in my life" forum.
> 
> Someone hit it a little earlier. There have been quite a few threads lately that indicate women are really trying to catch up in the infidelity department. The GNO's, Bachelorette parties, acting single. Basically "It's my turn" reasoning for a little extramarital action. I would say that's what is causing the increase more than anything.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It's ludicrous to believe that this tiny minority of pervs are a societal force to be reckon with.



> We're REALLY in trouble if this is being caused by women, after 5,000 years of civilization, are finally figuring out they've held the power all along. If that's happening, we men are screwed.


Screwed? Hardly. Men or women can only have power either two ways: by force or seduction. The former is too messy and the results are mixed at best. The latter is much more effective but its effectiveness last until the seduced no longer experience pleasure and take back the power they gave them.

I will say this though, the day men start losing their sexual desire for women because of environmental toxins, will be the day Humanity's days are numbered. Low sperm count is already a fact in many industrialized nations and low testosterone levels are following. We are swimming in a sea of estrogen - man boobs anyone?


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> It's ludicrous to believe that this tiny minority of pervs are a societal force to be reckon with.


Well, I don't have any statistics, and I think that getting them would be difficult. But your attempt to minimalize the problem out of existence seems to reflect deliberate ignorance.

But the problem as you characterize it isn't that a minority of people are shaping the culture. For one, they aren't. But as an indicator of our culture's overall health, this is a worrisome trend. You've started thinking that I'm that cuckolding is going to somehow infect everyone. Not so. This trend could be an *indicator of cultural health.* This isn't directing the culture, it's the pustule that shows up on the skin indicating that the patient is terminally ill. 



morituri said:


> Screwed? Hardly. Men or women can only have power either two ways: by force or seduction. *The former is too messy and the results are mixed at best.*


Force isn't going away any time soon. In fact, it's being used more and more to settle disputes.



morituri said:


> I will say this though, the day men start losing their sexual desire for women because of environmental toxins, will be the day Humanity's days are numbered. Low sperm count is already a fact in many industrialized nations and low testosterone levels are following. We are swimming in a sea of estrogen - man boobs anyone?


Toxins are nothing compared to those who go upon two legs.

There are currently some 750 "zones of cultural sensitivity" in France. These areas are places where French police do not enter, because they're afraid of a violent backlash if they try to enforce French laws, on French soil. In other words, the French police need to "man up" and do their jobs, and the politcal will needs to back them to the hilt. That this will has so far been lacking could be taken as an indicator of France's *cultural health.*

Now my question is, in the clash of cultures, because we are in a clash of cultures, males pushing their wives to seek out and have intercourse with other men *because they feel inadequate as males* is troubling. Did these feelings occur on their own, or is there something in the culture planting these feelings? I suspect that there is. I suspect that the culture, rather than telling these males to "man up" and "be all that you can be," "aim high" "become an alpha," the culture is telling these males that they are fundamentally flawed, *and they've completely bought into it.* They're in full denial about their own worth and potential, and when the barbarians decided that they've had enough of our western decadence, what shall we do with a growing population of males that have been told repeatedly and in no uncertain terms that they're worthless? What happens when the men, who have historically risked life, and limb to build and defend their homes and families decide to hide behind their dominant wives, offering them to the clearly superior alpha-male barbarians? What happens to ideas of democracy, the presumption of innocence in a culture like that?

I'm pretty damned sure that those ideas, along with everything else that oh, America is supposed to stand for, are going to get raped along with the wives of cowardly cuckold men, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves, because in the critical moments, we didn't smell the danger.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The current birthrates in Italy, Spain, Japan, and Russia, won't support the population.

What this means is that in 20-25 years, there will be "half" the number of Italians in Italy, Spaniards in Spain, and Russians in Russia.

Therefore, something called "Italy" will still be on the map, but it won't look anything like what we currently call "Italy".


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Conrad said:


> The current birthrates in Italy, Spain, Japan, and Russia, won't support the population.
> 
> What this means is that in 20-25 years, there will be "half" the number of Italians in Italy, Spaniards in Spain, and Russians in Russia.
> 
> Therefore, something called "Italy" will still be on the map, but it won't look anything like what we currently call "Italy".


Of course it will still be there. It will be filled with ex North Africans, its language will be Italian and Arabic and the Catholic church will share mind space with Islam. Italian is a semi-official language in Libya, has been since the 1920's.

Russia is a unique problem, since the fall of the 3CP the life expectancy has crashed. A Russian man's life expectancy in Russia today is 57 or 58. This is a result of a resurgence of old diseases, a collapse of infrastructure and alcoholism.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Another aspect of Italy is that men often, very often, live with their mom's well into their mid-30's. They're not getting married or even having long term monogamous relationships that involve children.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Another aspect of Italy is that men often, very often, live with their mom's well into their mid-30's. They're not getting married or even having long term monogamous relationships that involve children.


Yet, other men don't seem nearly so inhibited about becoming fathers. Their children will inherit that land.

And, it will happen sooner than many realize.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

A more pressing issue for them is they are running out of people to work to pay for the lavish social welfare benefits of their elders. The recent firestorm in Greece goes directly back to the fact that nearly 1/3rd of the entire workforce is a civil servant and they are guaranteed 80% pensions at age 53. 

5 years ago or so, Italy raised their retirement age to 57 or 59 and there were mass demonstrations. 

France has a legally mandated 37.5 hr work week with almost 2 months off per year. Which is fine as long as you collect socialist level taxes, which they do - in the realm of 60% and more. But they too are running out of workforce to do that. 

Spain has a nearly permanent structural unemployment rate of 21.9%. There's no one left to work. And because of their social benefits there's a lot more to do with all that free time than have sex and make more Spaniards.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The real fallacy is they thought they could import the labor from the middle east to support the lavish welfare state.

Sadly, the joke is on them.

I hear much consternation about Iran developing nuclear arms. I'm a bit more concerned about the arsenal of the Islamic Republic of France.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Indeed, in Quebec, the government has started to subsidize fertility treatments for infertile couples because their population is in decline, plus, they really don't like immigrants.

At least we're starting to talk culture.

So, what I'm seeing is a culture that is poisonous to men. Masculinity is considered passé, and primitive. Yet, we've hardly outgrown the need for a positivist masculinity; we need it now more than ever. And all of these submissive sorts of males are a huge step back for us.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

fhg1893 said:


> Indeed, in Quebec, the government has started to subsidize fertility treatments for infertile couples because their population is in decline, plus, they really don't like immigrants.
> 
> At least we're starting to talk culture.
> 
> So, what I'm seeing is a culture that is poisonous to men. Masculinity is considered passé, and primitive. Yet, we've hardly outgrown the need for a positivist masculinity; we need it now more than ever. And all of these submissive sorts of males are a huge step back for us.


On a related note, we've got a guy in another thread who is hoping his wife will "step back up" to 1x/month.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.

If they don't and they tolerate it and are upset, then they have no one to blame but themself. Allowing/wanting your partner to sleep with someone in front of you is NOT the same as getting cheated on behind your back.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.
> 
> If they don't and they tolerate it and are upset, then they have no one to blame but themself. Allowing/wanting your partner to sleep with someone in front of you is NOT the same as getting cheated on behind your back.


I know people who have done it.

I know people that have gotten upset when they saw it.

It always felt to me like opening a door to a dark room.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Conrad said:


> On a related note, we've got a guy in another thread who is hoping his wife will "step back up" to 1x/month.


When do we start advising people to pull the plug? My wife has told me that she considers it a marital duty to put out. She doesn't put a number on it, but I get the sense that we're talking about 2-3 times per month, minimum. 

We'd make exceptions for exceptional circumstances of course.

Is it a marital duty to have sex at least a few times a month?

Further, what do you say to a male who's so debased himself that nobody takes him seriously anymore? It's like marital vows don't mean anything anymore. I swore to be exclusive to my wife, and to break that should be treated as terminating and discharging the whole contract. I want to say, "Guy, if your partner is running around and denying you sex, then it's time to GTFO." In other words, MAN THE F*&K UP! Any self-respecting man should, and probably would. But these cucks...? They ASKING in some cases to get screwed by their wive's lovers, litterally and figuratively! 

Whatever that is, it's not a marriage...


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think it's a "nice man" thinig. I think some people genuinely get off on seeing their wife with another man.


Most in the **** lifestyle certainly do "enjoy" their wives with other men. But they themselves don't have the stones to go out and be with other women. If infidelity is going to be the norm, so to speak, then shouldn't it cut both ways?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> It always felt to me like opening a door to a dark room.


I totally agree. 



fhg1893 said:


> Is it a marital duty to have sex at least a few times a month?


That is entirely up to the married couple to decide what works best for them. 



fhg1893 said:


> Most in the **** lifestyle certainly do "enjoy" their wives with other men. But they themselves don't have the stones to go out and be with other women.


Then that is their issue to deal with.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> That is entirely up to the married couple to decide what works best for them.


You'd think so, and I should hope so, but I'm not so sure. If marriage is considered a legal contract which the courts are not shy about enforcing upon dissolution, then what are the obligations of that contract? 

From that perspective it seems that we have either to redifine legal marriage to mean a contractual arrangement, or we should get rid of the legal side of marriage. If two people want to get together and be married, then that's their perogative, but there should be no state intervention allowed if they get a divorce.



Jellybeans said:


> Then that is their issue to deal with.


If we've poisoned masculinity and manhood, then it's actually our issue to deal with.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I totally disagree with both of your statements.



fhg1893 said:


> If marriage is considered a legal contract which the courts are not shy about enforcing upon dissolution, then what are the obligations of that contract?


No court or government should be able to stipulate how many times a couple f-cks. 

It's frightening to me that anyone would want a governent dictating legally how many times a married couple has sex. 



fhg1893 said:


> If we've poisoned masculinity and manhood, then it's actually our issue to deal with.


Who is "we?" It's a personal choice if couples choose to engage in swinging or if someone allows/chooses to or tolerate their wife having sex with another man. That doesn't affect anyone's life but that couples'. And it is something 100% between that couple. 

Not everyone wants/agrees to the same things. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life and isn't harming other people, I don't really don't care what other people find acceptable in their relationship or sex life.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Taken in hand relationship in reverse as the woman has all the power. I think both are a manifestation of some hidden psych issues.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I totally disagree with both of your statements.


And you've also failed to consider the latter option in my solution.



Jellybeans said:


> No court or government should be able to stipulate how many times a couple f-cks.
> 
> It's frightening to me that anyone would want a governent dictating legally how many times a married couple has sex.


It's still being done after a fashion. Catholics can obtain an annulment for a marriage which has not been consumated. If this frightens you then the desired solution would be to remove legal recognition and obligation from marriage, or, to explicitly dictate all terms of a marriage agreement by way of legal contract.

I'm not sure how I feel about either option. 



Jellybeans said:


> Who is "we?" It's a personal choice if couples choose to engage in swinging or if someone allows/chooses to or tolerate their wife having sex with another man. That doesn't affect anyone's life but that couples'. And it is something 100% between that couple.
> 
> Not everyone wants/agrees to the same things. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life and isn't harming other people, I don't really don't care what other people find acceptable in their relationship or sex life.


My libertarian political leanings are inclined to agrees. But we don't live in a libertarian culture. And culture is very much our responsibility. I believe that culture has created a substantial group of submissive men who because of their lack of manly qualities have become a concern explicitly due to their lack of back-bone. I believe that they've become submissive because they've internalized messages concerning their inferiority and worthlessness as human beings, specifically male human beings.

If I'm correct, then it is very much our responsibility. If we do cure the poisonining of masculinity, then, and only then, do I believe that you are correct.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

fhg1893 said:


> And you've also failed to consider the latter option in my solution.


No. I have not. I just don't agree with it. 



fhg1893 said:


> If this frightens you then the desired solution would be to remove legal recognition and obligation from marriage, or, to explicitly dictate all terms of a marriage agreement by way of legal contract.


Nope. I don't believe I have any right to remove legal recogition of anyone's relationship. If people want to get married, they should have that right. If they don't want to get married, then they shouldn't. Not up to me. Not my problem. Not my business. And that goes along what one couple finds acceptable in their bedroom. 

If a man chooses to be a "cuckold" willingly and of his own volition, that is 100% his choice. Nobody "makes" anyone anything. 

I feel the same way about if a woman were to accept that in her relationship. 100% her choice. Has zero bearing on my life.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Come one it would be worth it for a few weeks just to torment the hell out of her. I would have fun with it. Psychotic scary malicious maybe he's gonna kill all three of us fun.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm not into it but I think you guys are off base. If these are 2 consenting adults why are they "sick f's"?

Live and let live. It's not for you. Leave it at that.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm not into it but I think you guys are off base. If these are 2 consenting adults why are they "sick f's"?
> 
> Live and let live. It's not for you. Leave it at that.


If the culture wasn't actively trying to emasculate males, then I have to agree.

Given that the culture is actively seeking to create a population of emasculated males, you might still be correct, but I'm really not sure about that one. Given that the culture is actively seeking to emasculate males, cuckolding occurs to me to be a red-flag indicating that we have some serious issues that go beyond what a number of people are doing in the bedroom. I think that "niceguy-ism" is a part of the larger problem.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm not into it but I think you guys are off base. If these are 2 consenting adults why are they "sick f's"?
> 
> Live and let live. It's not for you. Leave it at that.


That's the way I see it. It ain't nobody's problem but those in the relationship. 



fhg1893 said:


> Given that *the culture *is actively seeking to emasculate males, cuckolding occurs to me to be a red-flag indicating that *we* have some serious issues that go beyond what a number of people are doing in the bedroom. I think that "niceguy-ism" is a part of the larger problem.


Again, who is "we?" It sounds like you are the one who has a problem with what other people choose to do in their marriages/relationships. 

People are going to live their lives the way they want. As long as no one is getting hurt, I don't see how it's a "cultural" issue or a "we" problem.

People who actively seek out this arrangement have made a choice for themselves.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

(in a 1950's radio news reporter voice):

"In the future, every man and woman will be a cuckold".


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm not into it but I think you guys are off base. If these are 2 consenting adults why are they "sick f's"?
> 
> Live and let live. It's not for you. Leave it at that.


Well I agree with you about the live and let live part, though that lifestyle, by definition, is more than "two" consenting adults. To me it has just become indicitive of a larger underlying issue... it is not our place to dictate how consenting adults can behave, but it is our responsibility to recognize the reasons our culture is changing and try to analyze its affects on marriages, relationships and families.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

It has nothing to do with being a nice guy. Same as threesomes MFF. Is that also a nice guy thing? Come on. Some people like watching or hearing about their partners having sex with others. It's a fetish. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

fhg1893 said:


> If the culture wasn't actively trying to emasculate males, then I have to agree.
> 
> Given that the culture is actively seeking to create a population of emasculated males, you might still be correct, but I'm really not sure about that one. Given that the culture is actively seeking to emasculate males, cuckolding occurs to me to be a red-flag indicating that we have some serious issues that go beyond what a number of people are doing in the bedroom. I think that "niceguy-ism" is a part of the larger problem.


I've had the same argument in regards to Taken in Hand. The problem is how do you help someone who doesn't want help? 

Don't worry, the culture is actively seeking to objectify women as well.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It has nothing to do with being a nice guy. Same as threesomes MFF. Is that also a nice guy thing? Come on. Some people like watching or hearing about their partners having sex with others. It's a fetish. Nothing more, nothing less.


This is exactly it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> This is exactly it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think its not that easy to classify. For some, perhaps it is just a fetish, there are all sorts of open marriage arrangements. But as a nice guy whose W is trying to paint herself as a SA and making me believe I couldn't keep up as a way to justify her affair, I was VERY close to accepting that should she have made such a proposition. Of course, I'm picturing the scenario where the husband isn't being the voyeur, just stays at home and acts like nothing is going on while his wife is out servicing her sexual needs.

Thankfully I got my wits about me before she figured out such a scenario in her head, however I view this as more than just a fetish or living out a husbands sexual fantasy of having his W done by other men, in some situations I can see this as a coping method or way to sweep the problem under the rug (just as in the past when husbands' infidelity was tolerated when divorce was taboo).


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Lon said:


> Well I agree with you about the live and let live part, though that lifestyle, by definition, is more than "two" consenting adults. To me it has just become indicitive of a larger underlying issue... it is not our place to dictate how consenting adults can behave, but it is our responsibility to recognize the reasons our culture is changing and try to analyze its affects on marriages, relationships and families.


This is what I've been trying to get at.

Seems to me it's more than "just a fetish," it's a trend. It's a trend enabled and constructed due to some peculiar cultural conditions that don't seem to exist elsewhere.



morituri said:


> (in a 1950's radio news reporter voice):
> 
> "In the future, every man and woman will be a cuckold".


You know, I wish that was more of a joke. There are instructional books to this effect...


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## whammy (Apr 22, 2011)

I am very open minded and to each their own. But if you are in a sexual situation with your wife and you are not the only d*ck in the room then you are either gay or the biggest rationalizing p*ssy in the world and your wife doesnt respect you at all... she just likes the arrangement


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't see this as "trend." I see it as a "fetish." Because this is not the norm and most men are not cuckolds.


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## fhg1893 (Jun 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't see this as "trend." I see it as a "fetish." Because this is not the norm and most men are not cuckolds.


Why are you so convinced this isn't a trend? 

I've got my evidence, not that you'd accept it, but I'd like to hear yours.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I have to say that while I would kick her out on general principals it would not be with much anger or disappointment. She's already sleeping around. That ship has sailed. And if she's not sleeping with me, it's just that much less emotional. What am I going to get mad over? Would the scales fall from her eyes and she'd come running back? Of course not. So I doubt it would be some horrible moment with tears and flying waffle irons. It would be more along the lines of "You have about a week to collect your stuff and get out. Before you do, we have to go over the crucial financial stuff and separate our operating accounts and such."


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## kashi (Jun 6, 2011)

> I don't think these are nice guys at all. Nice guys don't push for their wives to have sex with other men. It serves the purpose of the men. If I recall most stories I have heard, the women go into this reluctantly at first. The men push for it as a warped solution to their feelings of inadequacy.


I totally agree with the quote above.

As the wife of a husband who has cuckhold fantasies I can tell you that from MY experience, and observation of cuckhold websites, a lot of those men thinks the woman is an object. They think they own their wife, and they get pleasure when someone tells them their wife is hot. It's like someone telling them they have a nice car, but a lot more extreme. Most men on cuckhold websites are complaining that the woman doesn't want to do it. They are looking for advices on how to convince her to do it. In my opinion, they are looking to control their wife into making her do things with other men... they want to "share" her because they feel like they owe something to the other men. They dont really care how the woman feels about it.

There is in fact a category of men who wants to be ridiculed by their wife. That in my opinion is part of another fantasy... the S&M type. It is often linked to the cuckhold fantasy. That part I don't understand but I think men might get tired sometimes of being "in control" and that's their way to take a break.


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## User223 (Oct 8, 2011)

There are many reasons why this lifestyle suits couples who embrace it.... And it is not always the man being "Mr. Nice Guy" - in fact, it is often just the other way around. Many times the man is very dominent in every day life, and PUSHES the wife into accepting this lifestyle, For whatever his reason (and yes, he could be objectifying her and using her as "live" porn) 

The wives of these men are often abused women - and have been convinced that they should do it for him if she loves him. And after the initial degradation of it all, she learns to accept it, as she has every other form of abuse he doles out.

Anyone who has not been in, or been close to someone in an abusive relationship won't have any understanding of how she could be made to do somethng like this and will say "well why didn't she just leave him?" When caught in an abuse cycle, they don't think they CAN leave him. The abuser usually has her beaten down so badly that she has no self esteem and it doesn't matter to her anymore. It becomes a "stage" where she performs to win her husband's love again. 

So no, cuckolding is not the extreme result of the "Mr. Nice Guy" for all **** couples. It is also another form of abuse she must suffer.


<----- Woman who knows first hand


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## martydotcom (Sep 29, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martydotcom (Sep 29, 2011)

Amazing how no one mentioned just have fun
Watching, being watched, can just be a component of "recreational sex."
A trip off the beaten path of. normalcy can be a thrill for two consenting adults
Life is short all too soon you may find yourself saying I wish I had
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## martydotcom (Sep 29, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

This whole idea is a power thing. Its obvious that what both parties get out of it is the whole dom/sub thing. From what I've seen, its a lot more than "woman declines sex from husband and then goes out and has sex with other people and the husband just puts up with it". From what I can tell, the husband (sub) gets OFF on it and the woman comes home and tells him all the gory details and they both get OFF on it. Or you could reverse the male and female roles - i read somewhere that sometimes it happens in reverse.

So yeah. I think it's a bit of a leap to go from one idea from another there. It sounds like you have serious psychological issues to engage in a "proper" cuckold thing, and you have to have a fetish for some (lets face it) really disgusting things there. Including the power dom/sub kink.


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## AB1 (Oct 25, 2011)

I think this has everything to do with men wanting/needing some male interaction. Otherwise they would NEVER get involved in this.

Personally, I can't imagine for a second EVER accepting that my wife is with another man. But it seems these guys really get off on it, as much or more than their wives. As stated in prior posts, a lot of these guys even "cleanup" after their wives are with other men,,and even service the other men. If your are cleaning another mans stuff out of your wife you have serious issues. This is abosulutely un f***ing imaginable! 

There is a lot more here than being a nice guy. My guess is being gay or bi plays in. Seriously, why the h*ll would a man ever go for this! There is much more in play here than nice guy.


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## xomelissa (Dec 7, 2011)

kashi said:


> I totally agree with the quote above.
> 
> As the wife of a husband who has cuckhold fantasies I can tell you that from MY experience, and observation of cuckhold websites, a lot of those men thinks the woman is an object. They think they own their wife, and they get pleasure when someone tells them their wife is hot. It's like someone telling them they have a nice car, but a lot more extreme. Most men on cuckhold websites are complaining that the woman doesn't want to do it. They are looking for advices on how to convince her to do it. In my opinion, they are looking to control their wife into making her do things with other men... they want to "share" her because they feel like they owe something to the other men. They dont really care how the woman feels about it.


I couldn't agree more. Very well said!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I totally agree with the quote above.
> 
> As the wife of a husband who has cuckhold fantasies I can tell you that from MY experience, and observation of cuckhold websites, a lot of those men thinks the woman is an object. They think they own their wife, and they get pleasure when someone tells them their wife is hot. It's like someone telling them they have a nice car, but a lot more extreme. Most men on cuckhold websites are complaining that the woman doesn't want to do it. They are looking for advices on how to convince her to do it. In my opinion, they are looking to control their wife into making her do things with other men... they want to "share" her because they feel like they owe something to the other men. They dont really care how the woman feels about it.


As a man with cuckold fantasies, I have to agree. I take the "showing off your car" thing to the next extreme. My issue in particular is that I simply do not feel comfortable with the idea of complete loyalty, it's vulnerability. I've cheated on my wife in the past before marriage, and I encourage her to cheat in marriage (for other reasons too, such as her guilt trips)

My wife is enforcing a strict code of conduct when it comes to loyalty, both for herself and myself. I can't deny that she has made an impression on me, and has managed to change me somewhat. The fantasies still exist, but her continual persistance has led me to cherish and protect her as she truly wants, not to have sex with half the town.

But that's just one side to me, my desire to share and show her off still, is another side that is yet to be fixed completely.
"I AM NOT SOME WH-RE THAT YOU PASS AROUND TO YOUR MATES"
Her words made me fall for her, unfortunately that's not something I'm always comfortable with, love = vulnerability.


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## jenis (Feb 9, 2011)

I think there might be a somewhat of a similar parallel with reverse genders, although certainly no where near to the degree or as common.

From my college days 25 years ago, I had a floor mate that 'shared' her then (admittedly gorgeous) boyfriend more than once with two other girls alone- including her then roommate! Were they ever the talk of the floor. It never was clear to me if she was either twistedly secure or had no respect for the relationship, got turned on by it, or something else. It did become clear she was arranging these 'dates', and it wasn't just the case of her being used by him or the other girls.

While I can appreciate others finding my H attractive, sooo many lines would be crossed and I'd really have to be a different person (as would my H I'm sure!) for something like that to happen. On the flip side, I'd bust out laughing (before crying) if my husband even remotely hinted at wanting to watch me with other men.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I joined this forum just so I could respond to this post. I was getting seriously engrossed in this lifestyle. I almost had my wife talked into it. Thank God my religious morals got the better of me and I got out. 

For me the whole attraction was to have a hot, sexy wife that men desired. I thought if she knew how sexy she was, that if maybe she had sex with a few other men, she'd realize it. And that I would reap the benefits in the bedroom. I tried, she tried but it was just making us miserable. We had some long serious talks about it and why I wanted it.

She is now trying to be more sexually adventurous for me, and I am trying to be more emotionally available for her. I'm trying to listen to her more.

We're both much happier now. She dresses sexy when we go out, we have sex in the back of the car, she'll even go to clothing optional resorts with me. I listen, and listen, and listen to her. We are in a very good place now, minus the cuckhold stuff.


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## rogergrant (Dec 7, 2011)

I always viewed swinging as showing off to the extreme. It's like the same impulse that has a guy drive up to a crowd of his friends in a sports car to show them how awesome it is. It's like confused chest beating. The thing is, most guys don't let all their friends test drive the car. Encouraging the wife to wear a short skirt or a low cut top is different than asking her to sleep with someone else.

The whole Cuckold thing is much more confusing. It's like the friend buys a car, gives it to a random guy, and waits for a story about how much the guy liked wrecking his car. Very confusing.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

rogergrant said:


> The whole Cuckold thing is much more confusing. It's like the friend buys a car, gives it to a random guy, and waits for a story about how much the guy liked wrecking his car. Very confusing.


Very well put and believe me, the car will get wrecked. Cuckolding will wreck a marriage as well. I thank God that I was able to just walk away from it.

I know of others where the woman divorced her husband to marry the "bull." Who, actually was much nicer to her than her own husband. At first they only had sex, then the intimacy started; talking, cuddling, going out on dates where sex wasn't even involved. Her husband lost her heart, and she gave her heart to the other man.


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## AgainstCuckoldery (May 17, 2012)

Cuckolding is a bit more complicated than you think. You think it's as simple as a "nice guy" being too nice? It's not that simple although you seem to think it is.

I only speak for myself but I KNOW that wanting to be cuckolded stems from deep psychological trauma experienced in childhood or the past. Very complicated matters wouldn't you agree?

These people have low self esteem because of trauma they have experienced in the past. What you call "Nice Guy" syndrome is actually chronic low self esteem due to physical/mental/emotional abuse.

I would also like to make a point that I have NEVER asked my girlfriend to sleep with another man and I NEVER will. I beat this problem. I figured it out by myself. Anyone reading this with the same problem as myself, you can beat this. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Thank You,
AgainstCuckoldry


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

AgainstCuckoldery said:


> Cuckolding is a bit more complicated than you think. You think it's as simple as a "nice guy" being too nice? It's not that simple although you seem to think it is.
> 
> I only speak for myself but I KNOW that wanting to be cuckolded stems from deep psychological trauma experienced in childhood or the past. Very complicated matters wouldn't you agree?
> 
> ...


FYI this is a very old thread.


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## AgainstCuckoldery (May 17, 2012)

I'm aware of that. This guy doesn't even go onto this website anymore. I just got fired out and decided to spit out that post.


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## jampa59 (Jul 17, 2012)

I ended up a cuckold many years ago before i knew what the word ment......my wife and i got married at 20, high school sweethearts. she ended up having an affair with her boss (who was 58) that started 2 months before our wedding and ended up telling me on our honeymoon. she lost her virginity to him on a business trip - he got her drunk (she was 19 at the time - 2 weeks before bday) and ended up in her room and being her first. she told me on our honeymoon - i was crushed but I couldnt leave her. that affair continued because her job was to travel with him on business trips and they would end up having sex together. she didnt hide it and told me about it so i knew it was happening. that went on for a year until he was transferred to the west coast. she has been with other men during our marriage but I dont care because it was only about sex with them and its about love with me. we have been married 20 years and still going strong!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

jampa59 said:


> i ended up a cuckold many years ago before i knew what the word ment......my wife and i got married at 20, high school sweethearts. She ended up having an affair with her boss (who was 58) that started 2 months before our wedding and ended up telling me on our honeymoon. She lost her virginity to him on a business trip - he got her drunk (she was 19 at the time - 2 weeks before bday) and ended up in her room and being her first. She told me on our honeymoon - i was crushed but i couldnt leave her. That affair continued because her job was to travel with him on business trips and they would end up having sex together. She didnt hide it and told me about it so i knew it was happening. That went on for a year until he was transferred to the west coast. She has been with other men during our marriage but i dont care because it was only about sex with them and its about love with me. We have been married 20 years and still going strong!


Bleagh!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

jampa59 said:


> I ended up a cuckold many years ago before i knew what the word ment......my wife and i got married at 20, high school sweethearts. she ended up having an affair with her boss (who was 58) that started 2 months before our wedding and ended up telling me on our honeymoon. she lost her virginity to him on a business trip - he got her drunk (she was 19 at the time - 2 weeks before bday) and ended up in her room and being her first. she told me on our honeymoon - i was crushed but I couldnt leave her. that affair continued because her job was to travel with him on business trips and they would end up having sex together. she didnt hide it and told me about it so i knew it was happening. that went on for a year until he was transferred to the west coast. she has been with other men during our marriage but I dont care because it was only about sex with them and its about love with me. we have been married 20 years and still going strong!


If it was about love, why did she wait until you were married to tell you?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I see this is an old thread, but IMO I don't think the "cuckold" lifestyle is gaining in popularity. Most likely, this phenomenon is much more visible because of the technology gains in social network sights plus higher internet speeds/higher bandwiths cause people to start putting everything on the web. What the OP is probably witnessing is that many of these people were doing this for years, but now they have a forum(s) where they can get together and talk about their experiences and fantasies. 

Regarding the change in our culture, yes it is changing in negative ways IMO. I think the educational system has, for lack of better words, "emasculated" many of the boys going through the system by changing teaching styles to better address the education of female students. I don't think this is intentional, but I do think education is affecting boys somewhat negatively. However, biology trumps social experiments, and I don't think that a whole generation of emasculated males are "invading" the culture. I have many ideas on this that are probably more appropriate for a political forum. Biggest problem is the pressures put on today's families. The family is bombarded by many external influences that are negative. These influences can hurt families, and that is the biggest problem we are facing - from a purely secular point of view.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Hahahaha... destroying society from within. People, repent and revert to the clandestine cheating of the good ol' days!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I firmly believe that cuckolds are suffering from severe mental illness. They think that being abused is ok, even desirable. And that shows they are a danger to themselves. When a person willfully accepts abuse, they are In need of societies help. 

We wouldn't accept a man abusing his wife like this. We wouldn't accept him having her get him ready for his dates all the while belittling her. Nor would we accept him returning him to tell her the glory of his cheating ways. 

No we would seek to help free her from such abuse. If she defended him and said she deserved it, we would counsel her to get free and to get abuse survivor counseling.

So when then when a man is abused like this, do we give it a name and call it a lifestyle?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QueensCouple (Aug 2, 2012)

Check environmental agents and the dramatic shift in the staple foods of the American diet. I would bet this has much more to do with the explosion of soy and stripped wheat based products then a socio- psychological connection. Although it does seem odd that of all the theories here not a single person mentioned the birth of Jesus being the result of a divine cuckold relationship. Just an observation


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## DDC (Jul 16, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I firmly believe that cuckolds are suffering from severe mental illness. They think that being abused is ok, even desirable. And that shows they are a danger to themselves. When a person willfully accepts abuse, they are In need of societies help.
> 
> We wouldn't accept a man abusing his wife like this. We wouldn't accept him having her get him ready for his dates all the while belittling her. Nor would we accept him returning him to tell her the glory of his cheating ways.
> 
> ...


You bring up some really great points. I wouldn't go as far to say it's a mental illness, but in my mind, I would imagine that it has to do with really low self-confidence and self-esteem.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

There may be evolutionary psychology at work. And many other explanations in any given individual case. Article: Why would you do that? (Want to watch your wife with another man) | Psychology Today


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## zsu234 (Oct 25, 2010)

It's liberalism taken to it's natural conclusion. As men are continually emasculated it's only natural that women dominate them.


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