# Clinging onto what will never be?



## canbhappy2 (Dec 5, 2013)

This post is an update from an earlier one that I wrote about a month ago. In a nutshell, without rehashing my previous posting for too long, I've been married to my hubby for 18 years, together for 24 years, have 5 children and about a month ago, he left us with clothes in hand because he's "had enough." He came back hours later because in his words "he left me, not the children." 

The holidays, I felt, were like walking on eggshells, he pretends nothing's wrong, acts jovial and happy around extended family members and friends (happy husband, loving father, etc), Mr. Nice Guy, BUT as soon as everyone's gone, he's back to his "normal"- quick to anger, short-tempered, telling me I'm a bit** in his more agitated state, yelling at everyone about stupid things (ie. how cupboards should be organized, etc). A few hours or days go by, and he expects everyone to be okay with everything that has happened and be happy around him just because his mood is better at that time. I think what he's doing is "stonewalling" ?

I've finally broken down yesterday and straight up asked him to tell me what exactly is going on -- does he want a divorce? He said he didn't want to talk about it, but when I persisted, he said that it's the same as before (which took me a minute to understand this) -- he meant, he's left me, not the kids. He further said that he loves me, but is not in love with me, and when I suggested counselling, he said he wasn't interested in fixing anything. I told him I've been in counselling myself for some time, to which he replied that he didn't think it was helping. I said that it took two people to go to marriage counselling in order for something to change. 

He then said that he wanted to remain "friendly", and maybe later in the future, he may feel differently. I pointed out that where there is no intimacy in a marriage, no hugs, no kissing, no sex, that emotional distance becomes further, rather than the opposite, to which he had really no response (he shrugged his shoulders). 

I told him that I can't live like that, a loveless marriage, without the intimacies, and he told me then if I need intimacy to find someone for it. Just hearing him say that made my head spin. He said this with calmness, not anger. Who the heck suggests that to their spouse!!??

And no, he's not cheating on me, he's home most of the time (works from home), and otherwise spends time in the house. 

I asked him why, if he felt that way, he bought so many presents for me for Christmas, some quite expensive. He said "what, I can't be nice to you and buy you nice things?" 

Again, why would someone do this if they don't even like the person?? 

I really don't know what to do at this point. I still love him, he's my husband, and I don't really understand how to even fix this, if there's even hope. 

I've reached out to a family member (on his side), and they want to help and talk to him, but I'm really afraid that it will make things even worse. 

He has this way about him that makes me doubt myself, whether I'm the sole cause of all this. When he's in his amicable moods, he questions why I'm acting the way I am. I can't turn it off and on like he can --- after all, he's the one that's chosen to pull away, not me. I feel that it's a bit of a power trip for him, the more he hurts me, the more powerful he becomes. Financially, at this time, he's also in a better position, which doesn't really help matters. (side note: I do have a job, two actually, but it isn't enough to cover the expenses of living on my own with all the kids) Our oldest thinks that it would be better if he left -- he's referred to his father as a "jerk", and was happy when he left the first time.

I make him sound horrible, but he wasn't like this in our earlier years. I know that I was a different person too. I guess I'm clinging onto the hope that things will change at some point.

Advice? Thoughts?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Absence of dad equals happier kids. Work from that.


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## canbhappy2 (Dec 5, 2013)

SaltInWound -- Absence of dad makes one happier kid (who isn't so much of a kid anymore). He too is in receipt of hubby's moods (being yelled at). The other (younger) children were very upset when he left.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

canbhappy2 said:


> This post is an update from an earlier one that I wrote about a month ago. In a nutshell, without rehashing my previous posting for too long, I've been married to my hubby for 18 years, together for 24 years, have 5 children and about a month ago, he left us with clothes in hand because he's "had enough." He came back hours later because in his words "he left me, not the children."
> 
> The holidays, I felt, were like walking on eggshells, he pretends nothing's wrong, acts jovial and happy around extended family members and friends (happy husband, loving father, etc), Mr. Nice Guy, BUT as soon as everyone's gone, he's back to his "normal"- quick to anger, short-tempered, telling me I'm a bit** in his more agitated state, yelling at everyone about stupid things (ie. how cupboards should be organized, etc). A few hours or days go by, and he expects everyone to be okay with everything that has happened and be happy around him just because his mood is better at that time. I think what he's doing is "stonewalling" ?
> 
> ...


ILYBNILWY is an affair red flag. Overboard on gifts is also a red flag. Telling you to go get another man is an affair red flag. You don't think he has time but we hear that a lot, it usually turns out that there was time.

Kick him to the curb. You don't have to afford the kids on your own, that's what child support is for.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Begging for his scraps won't fix anything. Tell him to leave and then file for divorce; maybe that will snap him out of it. If not what have you lost? Allowing him to dither won't solve anything, and if he is having an affair it allows him to test the water with you waiting for him. Plan B's are never attractive or valued.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canbhappy2 (Dec 5, 2013)

Nucking Futs -- I hear you totally, and I agree they are big red flags for affairs, but I really don't think he is doing that. Maybe I'm being dense, but here are the reasons why I don't think he's having an affair:

He works from home, I work from home so I physically see he's here, he doesn't go out -- not with friends, not with clients, no one, he spends his spare time exercising or playing video games or looking at movie trailers or movies. If he goes to get milk or something (which is rare), he's back within 15-20 minutes (normal time to get what he says he's getting). So unless he's sneaking someone into the house when I'm not looking , I really find that hard to believe.


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## Sun Catcher (Dec 6, 2013)

It is over, ask for a divorce. From what you say he is totally unwilling to do anything about the situation (no counseling, no discussions, etc). You have no other choice if you want to at least keep your dignity, sanity and respect for yourself. Don't grovel, he doesn't deserve that. 

The younger kids will get over it and so will you. Good luck.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> He further said that he loves me, but is not in love with me, and when I suggested counselling, he said he wasn't interested in fixing anything.


He's told you everything you need to know right there. Furthermore, the following is highly abusive behaviour that isn't good for you nor your children:-



> The holidays, I felt, were like walking on eggshells, he pretends nothing's wrong, acts jovial and happy around extended family members and friends (happy husband, loving father, etc), Mr. Nice Guy, BUT as soon as everyone's gone, he's back to his "normal"- quick to anger, short-tempered, telling me I'm a bit** in his more agitated state, yelling at everyone about stupid things (ie. how cupboards should be organized, etc). A few hours or days go by, and he expects everyone to be okay with everything that has happened and be happy around him just because his mood is better at that time.


Your H's damaging behaviour could go on for years, OP, and you have to decide if you are prepared to live this way...

Frankly, I'd show him the door and file for divorce. IMO and IME, the younger children will be more damaged (long term) witnessing what they are currently witnessing than by divorce.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

This is confusing behavior. I will try to break it down.

1 - He wants to stay physically in the house because of the children
2 - He does not want to be physically close to you (no sharing of room or same bed?)
3- He is pleasant and attentive generally speaking (gift giving, etc.) but blows up and becomes insulting for no reason? Often?
4 - He is not cheating and has no one else in mind.

It sounds as though there is a mental issue (depression?) or is it a mid-life crisis? You cannot change him, but you can change how you will react to it.

Why not just say calmly, after a period of tranquility (no insulting behavior on his part) that it's nice that he still cares about you and the kids but either you want a real marriage or no marriage at all and that you'll give him some time to think about it, IF and ONLY IF there is no more bad behavior. Could this work?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your husband could be involved in an emotional affair on-line. Does he have any suspicious behavior regarding his computer?

Do you or the kids call him out on his moody behavior? He does this because he knows he can get away with it. Don't let him.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

canbhappy2 said:


> SaltInWound -- Absence of dad makes one happier kid (who isn't so much of a kid anymore). He too is in receipt of hubby's moods (being yelled at). The other (younger) children were very upset when he left.


So you want to wait until all of your children are damaged?


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

canbhappy2 said:


> Our oldest thinks that it would be better if he left -- he's referred to his father as a "jerk", and was happy when he left the first time.
> 
> Kids will tell it like it is. Your husbands selfish behaviour is affecting the whole family.
> 
> ...


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Hi canb. I'm so sorry you have to go through this right now, I know how tough it can be. 

Do you want to save this M, or give up and start over?

It does sound like H is in a MLC, have you done any research on this subject?

It's not really about you or the M. It's personal issues he is dealing with, and he must do so on his own. As much pain as you are dealing with I can guarantee he is in even more. He's not doing this _to_ you, he's doing it for him. Please don't take this personally. 

When I read these stories of someone wanting to bail on a good 20+ year relationship, it's almost always is a life crises that brought it on. 

If your M survives this crises you will have something that most could only dream of, but it will take time. And there are no guarantees. Still, isn't that what true love is about? Standing by our spouse during hard times? 

Tell me what YOU want, canb.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I think he is cheating when your at one of your jobs. That is why he is okay with you doing the same.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Your husband has emotionally bailed. He's just hanging around because of the kids and because it's more attractive to his wallet. 

At this juncture it doesn't matter WHY he is behaving the way he is. The fact is, he is. Whether it be from a physical affair, an emotional affair, depression or he just simply doesn't want to be your husband anymore. You are spending too much time trying to repair something when you don't know what is wrong. Channel that energy into making a plan first. The more you know the more in control you will feel. 

Figure out your monthly expenses. Take into account your take home pay and what you would get from child support. Don't assume you'll receive alimony. You may get it but you may not. It depends. I think you'll be surprised that managing on your own is very doable. I know it seems very overwhelming and I know this is not what you want to do but it is something you NEED to do. 

Ask him to leave the home. The home in which he is receiving all of the comforts of being a spouse but not having to put in the work. Perhaps this time apart will get his butt in gear to figure out what is broken within him. 

And as far as him placing blame on you and making you doubt yourself? Well, that is called gaslighting. Read up on it and learn how to defend yourself against it. 

I'm very sorry for what you and your children are going through. You have choices you can make. You don't have to sit around and wait for him to come around. He might not. His dog and pony show needs to come to an end. This can turn into a very emotionally abusive situation if it isn't already. 

Good luck.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Omego said:


> or is it a mid-life crisis?


That's my vote.



Omego said:


> You cannot change him,


I'll take that bet. Hand him divorce papers and tell him to take his poisonous attitude somewhere else. You and the kids will be better off without him. Call him some vile names so he knows you detest him. Make it 100% CLEAR that he has lost everything, and that it is HIS FAULT.

He either shrugs his shoulders and walks out the door, or he turns into a crying baby laying in the fetal position on the floor. If the former, great. That poison is gone from your life. If the latter (my vote), he see's what it is like to lose everything and reacts accordingly.

He's got a lot of issues. He needs help. Crushing his world should do it. It worked for me. Unfortunately, she was already gone (realizing I had lost her forever was the kick in the gut that woke me up)


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## canbhappy2 (Dec 5, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts thus far. I'm still very confused about everything and am trying to take it day by day so that I can come to a decision regarding everything. To answer your question AlmostYoung, I want my marriage to get through this, but I also know that once I go through whatever steps I take to try and fix this, I may need to make a very painful decision and leave.

I'm so sorry for the long post again, and I'm so grateful that you all are so supportive on this site.

An update for you all if you're following this -- I've spoken with my SIL (his sister) and MIL and they both want to help. They want to speak to him and see whether they can get through to him. I'm really scared of the reaction that he'll have once he knows that I've been speaking to them (of all people, his family). I don't know whether that is right or wrong reaching out to his family, but it makes me feel better knowing I was able to share what is going on have feel support. 

On the homefront, hubby has taken the stance that he acts as if nothing occurred. He doesn't really talk to me about anything other than generally, or about the kids, but he's kept his anger and frustrations at bay for a number of days. 

More confusing, he sleeps in the bed with me still, makes me coffee in the morning (or breakfast), and generally initiates verbal interactions with me. We eat breakfast and lunch together (it's just the two of us in the house at that time). There, however, is no intimacy, no kissing, no sexual attempts, no hugs. He even saw today that I was upset, and asked what was wrong. 

I don't want to get judged on this, but as I'm grasping for answers I've started to poke around to see if there was evidence of an affair or some other explanation. I took at look at his chat account on his work computer (as I said he works from home), and I saw that he has continual banter with a group of co-workers, and in particular, two other guys. I was able to recognize from the content who one was, and it's a male friend of his whom I've met (for simplicity, let's call him "J"). The other, also a male, was one that I didn't recognize (again for simplicity, call him "X"). I recently met "J" -- he came to pick up my husband and son at our house and I immediately was surprised as to what my husband would have in common with him. The "boy" is 14 years younger than us -- in his 20's, is single with no gf, and lives at home with his parents. He seemed polite, and brought a gift to the house, but it evident that he was really out of his element, with being surrounded by me and all the kids (you could tell he's not used to kids at all). He spent most of the time talking to my hubby only -- I engaged him in a bit of conversation, but he seemed awkward, maybe shy. The three of them went out together (my son, H, and "J) to an all ages concert, and when they came back I had made up the couch and he even slept over that night as the weather was really terrible and dangerous to drive in (he lives rather far). He ate breakfast with us all, and left. Seemed harmless enough, but I thought that the relationship with my H was a bit strange because he's closer to my son's age than my husband's and it made me feel uneasy somehow. About a week later, my son told me afterwards that it was weird seeing my H act like his age (a teenager) when they were out.

The point in telling you this long winded story about "J" is that when I looked over the conversations in the work chat, most of the content was really harmless, talking about movies, trailers, etc., but one post caught my attention that occurred this morning and really made my heart race. The gist of the conversation was talking about some new game on the market, and then my hubby saying that he's not getting the game, and the guys chided him about that, and then he said that "she tells me that I could be doing something more constructive with my time, even when I've only played for 30 minutes" (this is true, I do say this as I feel video games are a colossal waste of time for adults). The reply from "J" was something to the affect of "tell that bi**h to stop complaining and eat more bonbons". The third person on the chat "X", said (this is not quote, but you'll get the picture) "yeah, tell her that she's your wife, not your mommy, and does she want to give birth to you" (no idea what this means, but rude nonetheless). My husband's response: "That's what I told her. It went well." ?? Neither one responded to my H's comment and the convo went onto another topic then.... 

I'm floored...this conversation occurred this morning, and this is after the time he's acting "nice" to me for the last few days. I thought that his actions were perhaps meaning that he was feeling badly about what went down a few weeks ago. Now I don't know what to think. Him asking me what was wrong was just after I read the post. 

My SIL and MIL think his behaviour is appalling, and that he's going through a mid-life crisis. In some ways, after I saw this post and the way that the "guys" all talk to one another (the wording is like teenagers would use, cryptic and hard to follow), and the fact that he's probably one of the older guys at his work and feels that maybe he needs to fit in or something??, maybe his single younger friends appeal to him more because they seem more fun?

In my snooping, other than his younger friends, he doesn't appear to be cheating. No porn sites, no going out, no weird calls on phone, nothing. Again, to emphasize as the subject keeps coming up from readers -- he's ALWAYS here, and my work schedule for the times I have to go out to meet clients, is really unpredictable and very short in duration. He'd have to be a mind-reader to know when I'm going out to arrange for a meeting with someone and come back before I arrive back home. 100% of the time when I go out to meet a client, he's watching our youngest one as well as working here.

I've concluded that part of his behaviour, especially of late, is due to these "friends" of his. The part that he's allowing those guys to talk about his wife like that (especially when they don't even know me) is inexcusable, but it also shows that he lacks maturity. As for the "friends" themselves, what the hell is wrong with them that they're pushing him away from his family? I should point out that these guys are not his collegues -- my H is their supervisor.

Further thoughts?


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Yes canb, reverting back to their teen years is quite common for persons going through MLC. Ask me how I know!

Just a few quick points, from my near 2 years of going through and studying about MLC.

H is searching for meaning and purpose in his life. Asking himself all the Big Questions. No matter what he says, it's not really about you or the M. You didn't break him and *you can't fix him.* 

So your goal is to not take this personally.

Step back and allow him to figure this out. It's the only way. If you don't give him space, he will take it.

Getting the families involved is not recommended. It adds pressure to H, and to you, to resolve this before he can. Not good if you hope for him to get through this difficult period in his life without ending the M. My advice now that you let the cat out of the bag is to ask them to NOT approach him. They can't "fix" him either. Or force him back into the M. Make sense?

Snooping: Don't bother. It can't save your M and only hurts you. Plus, should he find out he will be furious. Just like when a teen finds out Mom and Dad are snooping into their business! Again, if you want your M to survive this, give him space and time. 

If there is an A it is a symptom, not the cause of the problem. A's have a way of always coming to light, if you just pay attention. If this happens, THEN you can decide if it's a deal breaker for you. Why worry about it now?

MrK's plan above will not wake H up. You can't force someone to love you. What kind of love would that be if he did stay? Not lasting or true love, that's for sure. You deserve better than that. 

Most important right now is to take care of yourself. Try to find some new activities or interests outside the M, because this likely will take a while. But if you're anything like me, you probably feel your spouse and M is worth it. Be patient.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

AlmostYoung said:


> MrK's plan above will not wake H up. You can't force someone to love you.


MrK's plan has nothing to do with making him love her again. Where did she say he doesn't love her? If I missed it, and that is the case, then by all means leave. But walking out the door won't wake him up? Are you sure about that? 

This guy has NO IDEA his wife is getting ready to leave him. None. How you can say walking won't get his attention is beyond me.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Canb: DO NOT threaten or initiate D unless you are sure that’s what you want.

People in MLC want out, because they are in great pain. They will often run harder if they feel we are trying to corner them with an ultimatum. 

Oftentimes, their spewing is an effort to get us to get angry, fight back and give up on them, so they can then blame the D on us. Don’t give him that.

IF you want to force quick resolution, even if that will likely mean D, go the hard line route.

IF you want a higher chance of saving this M, give him time and space to work his stuff out, and see the M in a new light. Focus on yourself.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm really confused about the "do nothing" advice AY is advocating.


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