# I made a big mistake tonight.



## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I made a big mistake...tonight.

My husband (as posted in another thread) stays home most of time with our child, who is 8.

My husband has a passive aggressive personality. Very sarcastic. My child is picking it up. For example, my husband will
call me (on speaker phone) and tell me the couch got ruined or my favorite dress got screwed up at the cleaners. I now know 
never to believe him because it's typically a joke. Ha ha...gotcha kinda stuff. But never said with humor.

Well, tonight my mother was visiting and my DH's Father...for my child's first communion tomorrow. 
I told them at dinner that I didn't have to work on Monday because I took the day off to be just with child. 

Child looked down and said "no thanks." ...I thought they were joking, like DH. So I said "come on..you know I'm excited for Monday and I know you are too!"
Child said "nope, Daddy got a sitter". I said "right...right..." I know you are joking. I said "Sweetie that really hurt my feelings". Child just shrugged their shoulders and ignored me. (as my DH often does)

But my mother looked at me as if my child was serious...and she already thinks I'm nuts because I'm the breadwinner.

I snapped and said.."Mom...Child is just playing games ...like dad with his passive aggressive sarcasm." 

I knew when I said it ..I made a horrible mistake. I said "I'm sorry...I didn't mean that"...and everyone changed the subject.

I told my husband aside and apologized and told him I was sorry, but that our child embarrassed me in front of my mother and I lashed out and I was wrong.
I said ..."but our child should not be doing that ...and that shouldn't be something that child is consistently exposed to."

My DH said "yes ma'am" and that was it...and coldly walked away.

I am not back at work and can't stop crying. I feel like my child is now turning into a terror. My DH doesn't care and my mother and father in law think I'm not loved by my own child. Now he's texting me complaining about how my Mom is on the computer instead of playing with our child.

Am I overreacting? I just don't know if I"ve ever felt so low...knowing how awful my marriage is...and how bad my child was acting. And most of all...I feel terrible for being "that" person..and lashing out.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What did you expect? Your child (good call on changing to that, since keeping the gender straight seemed to be an issue) has picked up your husband's traits. Expect that to continue and get even more fun, especially as it learns to push your buttons and get reactions.

C


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

So...telling the truth is a mistake but him acting this way and teaching it to your children is proper?

Seems a bit backward to me.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

It's a victim puke. Whatever. Everyone has there faults. It comes from your lack of assertiveness and your feelings of powerlessness. 

Two things stick out. 

One, your asking your son to be emotionally connected to your wants and needs. You stay home=you want him to be excited. Then you get upset when he's not excited about. He's 8, and a boy. Your feelings are yours don't project on him. Yeah it sucks but you have to let him feel the way he wants. 

Second, you state to your husband sorta what you wanted and then let him walk away. He's a man. Hit him with a 2x4 until he tells you he will or won't do what you want. "Yes 'mam" was a total blow off. 

"I need you to stop using sarcasm around D8. I don't like that he uses it"

Keep saying it until he says "ok, I won't use it" 

If he says he won't stop, well that's a different discussion.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I talked to my son alone this morning and told him how much he hurt me with that "joke". He instantly got tears in his eyes. He apologized and told me he loved me and that he just was joking "like dad". 

So it made me feel better seeing he still has compassion. He said it was just a joke and he didn't understand why I didn't think it was funny. 
The thing is DH is consistently talking to his own father like this. 

He asked him for some advice on coaching soccer. His dad told him he thought his tolerance for kids screwing up was lower than his. My DH responded with oh thanks a lot. Glad I asked YOU for advice". 

His dad said well you asked me what I saw and I saw that you get frustrated too easily with the kids. He said "great" with a sarcastic bite. 


My DH stopped me this am and asked what my problem was cause I seemed very "not ok". I told him that I was hurt about what happened last night. He said I don't understand why? I explained it to him again. I told him that sarcasm and joking at my expense needs to stop

He got mad and said "fine". 

I said please don't just storm out. He said well that's my personality. We were just joking. And I don't think I'm going to just change my personality. He said I don't even know what you are talking about. 



JCD said:


> So...telling the truth is a mistake but him acting this way and teaching it to your children is proper?
> 
> Seems a bit backward to me.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> I talked to my son alone this morning and told him how much he hurt me with that "joke". He instantly got tears in his eyes. He apologized and told me he loved me and that he just was joking "like dad".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's a cop out and he's trying to make you feel guilty. He's saying "this is me, I behave poorly, changing that makes you bad"

Don't accept it. 

Try the book "when I say no I feel guilty". It goes through great detail about passive aggression and manipulation.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Not a big deal at all IMO


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I guess what concerns me still... Is that DH responded with "fine". Then said he can't just magically change his personality. 

I'm sure he will try for awhile. But it prob won't last. 

The other day he walked up to a couple at school (parents we barely knew) and started making fun of them for having matching colored jackets. Saying... Was it buy a black puffer jacket day, or what? 

He just does this stuff...




U.E. McGill said:


> It's a cop out and he's trying to make you feel guilty. He's saying "this is me, I behave poorly, changing that makes you bad"
> 
> Don't accept it.
> 
> Try the book "when I say no I feel guilty". It goes through great detail about passive aggression and manipulation.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

IF (and that's a mighty big IF) you told your husband that you are through on the 25th, then why are you still concerned about him changing?

He's a jerk to the highest order. And, he's turning your son into a jerk. Get over it. This is your life and you obviously don't want to change it. You would much rather run here an tattle on him.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I would tell him he may not be able to change his personality but he can learn better manners.

Was he like this when you courted?

I would think it ok to tell your son that you do not like it when your husband treats you like that. I do not see how else he is going to learn to treat women more sensitively.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes I had actually ended our relationship once because he said something very hurtful to me in public. I soon realized he doesn't always have bad intentions. But he is just that way.... Biting sarcasm. I fully admit that the problems were apparent when we dated. Bit he was the hard to get guy that I kept chasing. I was 23 when married. He was 27. 

He has improved some. But that doesn't mean the problem is gone. 



tryingtobebetter said:


> I would tell him he may not be able to change his personality but he can learn better manners.
> 
> Was he like this when you courted?
> 
> I would think it ok to tell your son that you do not like it when your husband treats you like that. I do not see how else he is going to learn to treat women more sensitively.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What you do is this. The next time your kid disrespects you in any way shape or form, you take hold of him, bring yourself nose to nose, eye ball to eyeball to him and let him know in no uncertain terms that YOU ARE HIS MOTHER AND YOU WILL NOT BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THAT AND IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, HE WILL SUFFER THE WRATH OF MOM AND DO IT WITH A LOOK THAT WILL KILL.

The longer you let this go on the worse it will be and then for good measure let your husband know that he's an a$$ hole for teaching the kid bad manners. Then tell him to go get a job because the one he's doing sucks to high heaven.

You should have never apologized to your husband. Your the kids mother and you don't have to take it off either of them. You have the clout in your house. Use it to your advantage before it's too late. 

You got a potential brat on your hands. You have the power to stop it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Very simple....

You have two brats on your hands. 

Your husband is choosing to act like an adolescent with crappy manners and disrespect. If he chooses to act like a child then treat him like one. I have told my husband before that if he cannot refrain from using sarcasm in this discussion you cannot stay here tonight.

You have every right to be particular about the behavior in your home and you are right as well to do it in a dignified way as in "that behavior is no longer acceptable in this house, choose better or xyz will happen. All the best to you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> Yes I had actually ended our relationship once because he said something very hurtful to me in public. I soon realized he doesn't always have bad intentions. But he is just that way.... Biting sarcasm. I fully admit that the problems were apparent when we dated. Bit he was the hard to get guy that I kept chasing. I was 23 when married. He was 27.
> 
> He has improved some. But that doesn't mean the problem is gone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd drag him off to a marriage counselor. It isn't sarcasm. It is agression masked as sarcasm so that if the victim takes offense, there is a retreat available. Decent folks do NOT play those sort of games with each other.

Consider what would happen if you asked him if he'd like to have a home cooked dinner or eat out to celebrate your divorce. I'd bet he'd not be amused at all.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Renee - Something to consider

Let your child know that, although parents should speak and act in a "do as I do manner" in real life it doesn't always happen. For example some parents smoke, drink and swear to excess in front of their children but this doesn't mean it's a good thing for the child to smoke, drink or swear.

Explain what sarcasm and passive aggression are, and what assertiveness is. Apologise that you have not been more assertive in the past and apologise that you have tolerated sh!t from him (your son), his father and others in the past and PROMISE him that you will not be tolerating any more disrespect from him, his father or anyone else in the future.

However, before you do this you need to wise up on assertive communication (assertive, not aggressive) and be very self aware and actually become religiously assertive. 

Tell your husband what you intend to say to your son. Make sure they both know how you will act in the future. EXPECT them not to like it and to push your buttons and test you out numerous times (especially hour husband) but keep on being assertive regardless. 

And teach your son how to be assertive - in years to come your son may well thank you for making these changes, and if your H is wise, he’ll thank you too.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

We all learn from role models. Very frankly, it sounds like hubby is NOT a very good role model.

I believe the Genesis of your dhild's disrespect (and that's what it is) is squarely in hubby's lap.

Completely my opinion, but I believe you and hubby should sit down and really REALLY talk this out. He needs to know - in NO uncertain terms - that this behavior is taking its' toll on you. If he knows it IN SPADES and elects to continUe it, then the path becomes a little more clear.

I bet he doesn't know how badly his behavior is affecting the marriage. He thinks he's being witty or something. How many times have we all seen someone make "jokes" at the expense of others? He needs to know that he's acting like a complete azz, as he can do nothing about it unless he does know.

After that - you decide, but you will have taken a BIG step in sorting everything out.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> I'd drag him off to a marriage counselor. It isn't sarcasm. It is agression masked as sarcasm so that if the victim takes offense, there is a retreat available. Decent folks do NOT play those sort of games with each other.
> 
> *Consider what would happen if you asked him if he'd like to have a home cooked dinner or eat out to celebrate your divorce. I'd bet he'd not be amused at all*.


:iagree: ABSOLUTELY!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Just remember, your the parent which means your the boss, rule maker, head honcho. You job is to guide your kid and his job is to follow. You brought the kid in to this world and now your job is to raise him to be respectful. 

If he feels he can use a smart mouth on you then he'll have no problem smart mouthing other people and it won't look good on you, the parent.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

aspergers?


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

You are not the first person to suggest Aspergers. But I don't believe that's the case. It could be but husband will not embrace any type of psychological concerns. And I'm not sure these moments surface enough to be considered a real issue. 

It's just this sarcastic tone that seems to play out over and over yet some people "get" it/him. 

I dumped him twice while dating. And I should have stuck to my guns. But I just forgave him and realized he didn't mean to be "mean". 

It's tough because it's true. You can't change a person. 






chillymorn said:


> aspergers?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> You are not the first person to suggest Aspergers. But I don't believe that's the case. It could be but husband will not embrace any type of psychological concerns. And I'm not sure these moments surface enough to be considered a real issue.
> 
> It's just this sarcastic tone that seems to play out over and over yet some people "get" it/him.
> 
> ...


That's right. You can't change a person. But they can change themselves and you can provide incentive and help. But they have to be willing to change.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PBear said:


> What did you expect? Your child (good call on changing to that, since *keeping the gender straight seemed to be an issue*) has picked up your husband's traits. Expect that to continue and get even more fun, especially as it learns to push your buttons and get reactions.
> 
> C


I noticed that (in the other thread) as well...


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## appletree (Oct 9, 2012)

I don't think it's OK that your husband cares for your child, as said bad role model. Your child has been disrespectful, but telling him he copies your husband is nothing what a child would really understand. Next time simply tell that he's disrespectful and leave the difficult relationship to your husband out of the conflict.
How long will you put up with his behaviour?


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I had a talk with my Mom about all of this and she really offers very little feedback. But she could tell there are attitude problems emerging with our 8 year old. I feel just so frustrated because I don't know how to rectify the situation. Leaving will not prevent DH from having contact. 

She agrees that my DH is often sarcastic and while he doesn't often know it ... He can be rude. 

Then I heard my sister on the phone with my Mom and the speaker was up loud. She said "boy, I bet you are ready to come home and get out of there". 

My mom said yes and then my sister started saying my child's name and my mom cut her off and said " yeah your sister is sitting right next to me". And my sister immediately said " oh I'll let you go. And hung up". 

I was really hurt. Feeling like I have no real support and I feel lost. Can't lean on my husband and don't know how to solve all the issues. 

My Dh. asked our child at dinner last night "what do you think you get from your Mom?" 


Response? "My niceness". 

My DH response? " oh thanks, I guess I'll just leave then". 

That was a sarcastic response... He was not serious. But it was interesting 



chillymorn said:


> aspergers?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

After reading through the thread I think changing your child and changing your husband are two different things. Kids are smart. They can learn that what one parent will tolerate the other won't and will act accordingly. Teach your son what behaviour you will tolerate from him towards you and your family. How he chooses to behave with your husband is between the two of them.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Maybe you should share a few things with your husband.

Sarcasm is referred to as the lowest form of humor by Oscar Wilde. Although Sarcasm can be witty, it should never be used at the expense of your loved ones. 

The Greek form of this word, sarkasmos, means "to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer." That should tell you something about just how funny sarcasm is.

"If you want to be happier and improve your relationships, cut out sarcasm since sarcasm is actually hostility disguised as humor." Psychology Today

There are lots of tips for handling that mean variety of sarcasm. His sarcasm is meant to instill doubt (by tricking you into believing your son didn't want to spend the day with you) or as a putdown by trying to make you feel stupid, confused or at a loss for words. His sarcasm does not seem funny to me at all. Did you laugh? Then it isn't funny. And just because that is his personality doesn't give him free range to be snide and mean.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

renee5555 said:


> My DH response? " oh thanks, I guess I'll just leave then".


Sarcasm and passive aggressiveness with a dash of victim mentality. Have fun with that recipe for disaster.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

renee5555 said:


> I had a talk with my Mom about all of this and she really offers very little feedback. But she could tell there are attitude problems emerging with our 8 year old. I feel just so frustrated because I don't know how to rectify the situation. Leaving will not prevent DH from having contact.
> 
> She agrees that my DH is often sarcastic and while he doesn't often know it ... He can be rude.
> 
> ...


So Renee - what, if anything, do you plan to do about this (coz staying stuck and bemoaning is not your only option and no one can do it for you - you would have to change yourself.)


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

OP, I think you were right to apologize to your husband for criticizing him in public. You were frustrated and your child's behavior caught you off-guard; you did not react well, and it was correct to own up to it.

That said, I think it is fair for you to hold your husband accountable for his hurtful words and actions, just as you held yourself accountable. Just ensure you act/react within the confines of your small family.



renee5555 said:


> I had a talk with my Mom about all of this and she really offers very little feedback. But she could tell there are attitude problems emerging with our 8 year old. I feel just so frustrated because I don't know how to rectify the situation. Leaving will not prevent DH from having contact.
> 
> She agrees that my DH is often sarcastic and while he doesn't often know it ... He can be rude.


I actually think this is GREAT feedback! He IS often sarcastic and your mom believes he probably doesn't understand how off-putting and rude it can be. I would consider this validation for your perspective. 



> Then I heard my sister on the phone with my Mom and the speaker was up loud. She said "boy, I bet you are ready to come home and get out of there".
> 
> My mom said yes and then my sister started saying my child's name and my mom cut her off and said " yeah your sister is sitting right next to me". And my sister immediately said " oh I'll let you go. And hung up".
> 
> I was really hurt. Feeling like I have no real support and I feel lost. Can't lean on my husband and don't know how to solve all the issues.


I can understand how this would be very hurtful to hear from your sister and your mom. It won't stop the hurt, but you might also consider the conversation you overheard as more validation for you- you are NOT crazy, you are NOT the only one who finds living with the stress/unpleasantness from your husband difficult, and you are NOT the only one who sees this affecting your child. Your mom and sister both see it, too.



> My Dh. asked our child at dinner last night "what do you think you get from your Mom?"
> 
> 
> Response? "My niceness".
> ...


If you want things to change, I think you need to start to provide your husband with a lot of feedback when he is sarcastic. He probably really doesn't understand how often he uses it and how destructive it is. He will probably not like getting the feedback, but it might just end up being helpful to him.

For instance, if he "jokes", "oh thanks, I guess I'll just leave then", then you can simply ask him "Why would you leave?"

If he says "I was just joking" or "Don't you recognize sarcasm?" just reply "It is difficult to know when you are serious or not. I don't like it when you are sarcastic." And, to him in private, "Our child was expressing his/her feelings, I don't think it's appropriate to joke about them."

I think it is critical that you stand up to his actions. You and others are seeing that your child is affected. S/h e is learning that it is not safe to voice his/her feelings or true thoughts. It also prevents your child from feeling safe with primary relationships, plus s/he is learning communication tactics that will push away others. All of this can affect his/her ability to have solid, intimate relationships as an adult.

I think you protect your child if you run interference and try to do some re-training with the H and child.

Some feedback you can provide:
"I feel hurt and disrespected when you talk to me like that."
"Ouch."
"I have no idea whether you're joking or serious. I want to you know your opinion/thoughts on this - please speak plainly."
"I don't appreciate the sarcasm."
To the H: "If you want to have a good relationship with me, you need to speak to me kindly and respectfully. You and I are not going to have a great relationship if you're mean and sarcastic. It's impossible."

If you need to, practice with yourself in the mirror. Write down some responses. Do whatever it takes to get the strength and confidence to do this. And KEEP doing it!

The goal that I am presenting isn't to change his behavior- although of course the best outcome would be for him to change. 

The goal is for you to be strong and confident and to provide consistent feedback. This will demonstrate to your child that the sarcasm is not OK, and that there are other ways to communicate. 

If your child asks about it, don't slag off on your H. You can simply tell your child, "Your father and I have different thoughts on how to treat people. I do not like sarcasm. I don't like people around me to be sarcastic, and I let your dad know that. I don't want to have it from him, and I definitely do not want to have it from you! I won't do it to you or your dad, either."

Good luck!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> My DH response? " oh thanks, I guess I'll just leave then".
> That was a sarcastic response... He was not serious. But it was interesting


 When he said that you should look at him and ask if he needs help packing. Then when the kids in bed, you should tell your husband that it's not bad enough that were raising a kid with a potential bad attitude and if the sarcastic attitude that his old man has better change. Let him know that he's an adult and a parent and what ever comes out of his big mouth, the kid learns and if it doesn't stop, he's going to be the one seeing his kid every other weekend.

You better nip this in the bud because when you son gets older and he decides to get sarcastic with someone who isn't in the mood to here it, he's going to be coming home from school with a severe butt whipping and he's going to wonder why it happened and sure as God made little green apples, it will be his dad whose raising the holy hell because the other kid is a bully when in fact it was the other kid who was tired of your kids mouth. Then whose at fault? Like father like son.

My first wife had a big mouth and when pissed could say some pretty awful stuff which is why she's my ex, but we have a daughter who inherited her mouth and that was a long time ago that we divorced but my kid picked up where she left off. Needless to say, she not a very well liked person. Just saying.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, the hard part, in all honesty is that when my DH said "well, I guess I'll just leave then.." My mother started laughing as if DH was jay Leno. So it amplified him. 

Then my mom said "what else do u get from your mom?" And he says "just trying to please dad". My mother said "well that's terrific!" 

I wanted to thru the floor. 

My mother heard my concerns about DH and said yeah I'll be praying for u. U need it. 

I just felt so disappointed because I wanted guidance. 

It's her belief that my DH is my cross to bear...

When I asked my husband about saying "I guess I'll just leave.." He just completely ignored me. I told him I wanted to talk about it and he said "I have nothing to say" and just asked the school day. 



6301 said:


> When he said that you should look at him and ask if he needs help packing. Then when the kids in bed, you should tell your husband that it's not bad enough that were raising a kid with a potential bad attitude and if the sarcastic attitude that his old man has better change. let him know that he's an adult and a parent and what ever comes out of his big mouth, the kid learns and if it doesn't stop, he's going to be the one seeing his kid every other weekend.
> 
> You better nip this in the bud because when you son gets older and he decides to get sarcastic with someone whi isn't in the mood to here it, he's going to be coming home from school with a severe butt whipping and he's going to wonder why it happened and sure as Go made little green apples, it will be his dad whose raising the holy hell because the other kid is a bully when in fact it was the other kid who was tired of your kids mouth. Then whose at fault? Like father like son.
> 
> My first wife had a big mouth and when pissed could say some pretty awful stuff which is why she's my ex, but we have a daughter who inherited her mouth and that was a long time ago that we divorced but my kid picked up where she left off. Needless to say, she not a very well liked person. Just saying.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm going to be blunt. Taking advice from most women on how to talk to a man is like asking your husband how a yeast infection in a vagina feels. While he may have some book knowledge there's no first hand knowledge. 

How many wives have been on here complaining that after years of asking nicely they either drew a line in the sand or went out and cheated. Only under the threat of divorce did the husbands finally come around. Why is that? Because as men, we need straight 2x4 advice. 

Please understand I'm trying to save you years of therapy. 

Tell him bluntly, With no mixed words, "I will not tolerate your sarcasm to me anymore, thank you."

If he says "that's my personality, do you expect me to change?"

Tell him "yes" and walk away. 

If he try's to protest or ignores your response. Or even worse uses sarcasm then ask him to go find some place else to stay for awhile, while you "think about things". 
I guarantee he'll be a new man over night. Because right now he's a vampire. He thinks you need him more than he needs you so he can treat you poorly.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Darlin' I'm going to shoot you very straight right now... It was NOT OK for your husband to say "Well, I will just leave then." to your child when he said "my niceness." He was putting his childs emotions on the hook for how he feels about YOU. That is vicious. My mother did that to me for decades and it caused massive damage in me of which I am still recovering at the age of 44. Let me break down what your husband said to your child... he guilted your child for appreciating the GOOD in YOU with a threat of abandonment. That is CRUEL! If I had been sitting across the table from him I would have told him "You know what that was not ok for you to guilt him with threat of abandonment for recognizing the good in me, he should be applauded for recognizing good behavior, now apologize to him immediately or leave until you can. Emotional Blackmail is unacceptable in this house from this day forward and if you cannot refrain you will be risking (consequence you deem necessary)" It may take you time to get to that point, but the sooner the better.... 

That was emotional blackmail which is VERY abusive and hard to spot if you aren't educated on what it looks like. Get the book Emotional Blackmail 

Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You: Susan Forward, Donna Frazier: 9780060928971: Amazon.com: Books

In order to "stand up" to unacceptable behavior it must be defined first so that you can single it out which takes education. Educate yourself on the various behaviors your husband is using to manipulate both you AND YOUR CHILD. I am having to walk this road in my marriage right now and it took me a long time to realize I was RIGHT and to DEMAND better in my home.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Darlin' I'm going to shoot you very straight right now... It was NOT OK for your husband to say "Well, I will just leave then." to your child when he said "my niceness." He was putting his childs emotions on the hook for how he feels about YOU. That is vicious. My mother did that to me for decades and it caused massive damage in me of which I am still recovering at the age of 44. Let me break down what your husband said to your child... he guilted your child for appreciating the GOOD in YOU with a threat of abandonment. That is CRUEL! If I had been sitting across the table from him I would have told him "You know what that was not ok for you to guilt him with threat of abandonment for recognizing the good in me, he should be applauded for recognizing good behavior, now apologize to him immediately or leave until you can. Emotional Blackmail is unacceptable in this house from this day forward and if you cannot refrain you will be risking (consequence you deem necessary)" It may take you time to get to that point, but the sooner the better....
> 
> That was emotional blackmail which is VERY abusive and hard to spot if you aren't educated on what it looks like. Get the book Emotional Blackmail
> 
> ...


oh, and one more resource you are going to need is the "out of the fog" website.... 

Out of the FOG - Top 100 Behaviors & Traits of Individuals who suffer from Personality Disorders

The 100 traits are definitions of destructive behaviors that you have EVERY right to say "not acceptable here"

This is going to be very hard work if you choose to stay... Trust me... he will give you every right to walk when you call him on it... watch him for violence... Usually these types get nasty when they are finally held accountable. The are used to being enabled and don't like it at all when they aren't anymore.

My husband got pretty nasty when I laid a hard line. I was 24 hours from hitting him with a restraining order when I saw the first change.... he said "how I communicate with you is 100% my responsibility." THAT is what stopped the restraining order... but I kept it very close at hand until more changes happened, which have in these past couple of weeks and the ONLY way it will stay at bay is if he stays on the path of recovery. 

So .... I say that to share that if your husband is not willing to be held accountable... I would walk.

Had mine not been willing... I would already be walking right now. He saved his own a** by getting serious about the work he needed to do. But what preceded that was ME getting serious about zero tolerance for abusive behavior in my house. 

Best of everything to you....


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Something very important I do with our son is if he is calling something correct I validate him. And I do not allow my husband to invalidate him. I use that very carefully. As long as our son is voicing it with respect, I allow him to call a situation accurately. And do not allow him to be corrected for it unnecessarily. 

I also tell my son it is not his job to rescue his mom. It's MY job to rescue me.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And tap into people who are versed in destructive behaviors to help support you. Your Mom doesn't sound educated in this particular issue. Love her where she is but don't rely heavy on her for this journey. Surround yourself with those who have the capacity to help.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm going to be blunt. Taking advice from most women on how to talk to a man is like asking your husband how a yeast infection in a vagina feels. While he may have some book knowledge there's no first hand knowledge.


HAHAHAHA! This is awesome. I am going to use that comparison at some point, I'm tucking it away for some future discussion. 



> How many wives have been on here complaining that after years of asking nicely they either drew a line in the sand or went out and cheated. Only under the threat of divorce did the husbands finally come around. Why is that? Because as men, we need straight 2x4 advice.
> 
> Please understand I'm trying to save you years of therapy.
> 
> ...


I 100% agree with you that your recommendation would be the best and most direct way to communicate with her H; however, I don't think that the OP has quite the strength yet to do so at this time. If she did, she would have already done it. Maybe (hopefully!) I am wrong, and she just needed some external validation, a little push, to put it on the line. That's why my post recommended that her definition of success is HER ability to be strong- if she gets herself strong enough to stand up to him, she can get herself strong enough to get out of the situation if needed/if H doesn't improve his behavior.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes she has to invest in herself to gain that strength...

Also.. I agree with asking men... they have GREAT B.S. meters and one of the best moves I made this past year in gaining my OWN strength was expanding my friendship circle to include men. I became WAY more balance and stronger faster... just be very careful of emotional affairs and beyond using that strategy.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

So tonight I went home on my dinner break and my son was having severe allergy attack. Eyes swollen shut. He has this happen once a year or so. Husband tells me to stop on way home to get Benadryl. I did. Son was okay. But scared. Before I left to go back to work he called me upstairs and asked me to sit with him. He said he was scared that I was leaving. I said you are going to be fine. You are already looking better! He said "you care for me more than Dad". 

Maybe that's typical? Kids wanting their moms? Or is that abnormal?





Blossom Leigh said:


> Yes she has to invest in herself to gain that strength...
> 
> Also.. I agree with asking men... they have GREAT B.S. meters and one of the best moves I made this past year in gaining my OWN strength was expanding my friendship circle to include men. I became WAY more balance and stronger faster... just be very careful of emotional affairs and beyond using that strategy.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I think a lot of the time women are more nurturing than men and kids respond to this accordingly. A lot of us guys were raised with the ole, "rub a little dirt on it and get back in the game" kind of approach to ailments/injuries. 

I wouldn't make anything of that alone.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

This is true... just watch for the times if your son says he is afraid of his Dad... My son burst into tears in terror at the thought of going home and when asked why he said "because Dad gets mad all the time." He also has said to me "Dad is mean to you all the time" when he was 3 years old. So, out of the mouths of Babes...

When our son expressed that he was afraid of going home because of his Dad, I encouraged him to express that to his Dad, that we have the right to ask for proper behavior. He did, and did it with respect and expressed his hurt and heart to his Dad. I am not the go between. I encourage them to deal directly with each other. And I tell my son, "we can ask Dad to address the behaviors that scare you, would that make you less afraid." and he tells me yes... so that is the approach... Dad can correct in a firm assertive way, but NOT abusive. And I allow my son the voice to say just that...


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Here's my problem. Going through this thread you might see how there are so many different issues/signals going on for me.

Yesterday I had a very very frustrating day at work. It was very tough... Bosses yelling screaming etc. me getting thrown under the bus etc. I told my DH again that this pressure is just too much. Our son needs me too and I'm working literally 14 hour days when news breaks. Anyway ... He went from uncaring and unresponsive regarding the behavior explained previously here... To angry FOR me at my bosses. But not angry enough to help me be able to quit? 

He said their actions were driving HIM crazy FOR me. 

So I appreciated his support. Then he said he "forbids" me from working off the clock so to speak. I told him if I didn't, I wouldn't get all my work done. He said well that will teach them a lesson about how much they are invading your personal time. I told him I could get fired if I didn't make my deadlines. (He knows this) and he just said too bad ... They can't treat you like that and expect you to give up your unscheduled hours for their deadlines. 

Them he sent me this text: 

I love you very much. I am here to support you. I'm an ear to listen. A shoulder to cry on. A pair of arms to hug you. And a heart to love you through all of the seasons of change.

When I came home for dinner I had the Benadryl for our son and he was just same ol angry person. 

I want to believe his support is genuine. My therapy is teaching my otherwise, though. 

What do you think?





Blossom Leigh said:


> This is true... just watch for the times if your son says he is afraid of his Dad... My son burst into tears in terror at the thought of going home and when asked why he said "because Dad gets mad all the time." He also has said to me "Dad is mean to you all the time" when he was 3 years old. So, out of the mouths of Babes...
> 
> When our son expressed that he was afraid of going home because of his Dad, I encouraged him to express that to his Dad, that we have the right to ask for proper behavior. He did, and did it with respect and expressed his hurt and heart to his Dad. I am not the go between. I encourage them to deal directly with each other. And I tell my son, "we can ask Dad to address the behaviors that scare you, would that make you less afraid." and he tells me yes... so that is the approach... Dad can correct in a firm assertive way, but NOT abusive. And I allow my son the voice to say just that...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> So tonight I went home on my dinner break and my son was having severe allergy attack. Eyes swollen shut. He has this happen once a year or so. Husband tells me to stop on way home to get Benadryl. I did. Son was okay. But scared. Before I left to go back to work he called me upstairs and asked me to sit with him. He said he was scared that I was leaving. I said you are going to be fine. You are already looking better! He said "you care for me more than Dad".
> 
> Maybe that's typical? Kids wanting their moms? Or is that abnormal?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It can be typical. Or his father's "humor" could be affecting him in a very bad way. Or both.

My opinion is that you need to give your husband a VERY STRONG reason for changing. Don't wait for him to spontaneously reform.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Darlin' as much as I hate to say it... my husband who has pulled a knife and pointed at his own throat in angry expression at ME has sent me the very same loving text. Makes it VERY hard to weed through the decisions. 

Familiarize yourself with Stockholm syndrome...

He was also VERY affectionate with me DURING his affair.


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