# For guys: Does it matter to you what kind of job your s/o has?



## Kalpnisis

It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa. So I am curious, say you met or are with a woman who is otherwise nice, pretty, funny etc. but they had some job working as say a cashier at McDonald's or some equally low-level job; something you'd expect a high schooler to have and she had no ambitions to ever get anything better, would that matter to you?


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## Lostinthought61

Well.....I would draw the line if she told me she was a high paid escort.....I don't care how much money she brings in....;-)


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## southbound

No, it does not matter to me. I care about what kind of person they are.


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## AngelHeart888

I would imagine that to some degree, although you have to account for individual circumstances, a person's job is a reflection on the person's level of intelligence and character. This goes for both men and women.

In general, however, Men, define themselves much more by their jobs/careers than women do. 

You also have to account for circumstances. For example, for a while after my divorce, I worked as a waitress in a diner, even though I have a business degree, and could have probably gotten a better paying job. But because of circumstances (childcare needs, lack of family/support circle, requirement for more flexible hours, etc.) I took this job for the time being because it was honest work and I wanted to work, and I didn't feel it was beneath me. I wasn't going to make a career of it, but it was good for a while.


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## Unicus

Yes, what someone does matters to me.

It's not just a job, and I don't buy into the part that your job identifies who you are, but what you do says loads about who you are and what your emotional abilities are.

I always wonder what folks with such entirely different jobs find in each other, it must be very primal. It's not just the working class gal reaching for the stars, but also, the CEO who marries his secretary. It's just such an obvious imbalance in both perceived power and ability. it always feels like it's acting out something that should be better addressed in the privacy of a therapists office.

I recall reading some well done study that indicates that "Opposites" may or may not attract, but it's basic similarities that maintain.


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## wild jade

If you're pretty enough, you can use that to get most anything you want.


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## Bibi1031

wild jade said:


> If you're pretty enough, you can use that to get most anything you want.


Maybe, but for how long is the issue. Beauty and youth don't last very long.


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## RandomDude

> For guys: Does it matter to you what kind of job your s/o has?


Zilch, makes no difference of my opinion of her.

Unless of course, she's an escort or porn star, then yeah, would be a problem...


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## Kivlor

Bibi1031 said:


> Hopefully it is Nataly trolling around here, I hope it's not another air head like the 3 that already clog the forum.:surprise:
> 
> You are going to get a partner that is similar to you. You will not get any engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEOs if you are 30 and working for minimum wage jobs. You will more than likely get a guy with similar income and job experience as you. Will two low salary partners afford for one to stay home? Will any guy marry for long term a woman that won't give them children?
> 
> The pool of partners will get smaller and smaller. I don't think that's very smart of a woman to do. You are competing with maybe younger, more successful women than are fresh out of college and making good money at 22 or 23 years of age. Most of these women will want children eventually, why else seek a long term relationship? It most certainly will not be to smooch off a partner and stay home unless it is to take care of the family they more than likely want to have.


I don't know what the statistics are, but this does not hold true for most of the couples I know and have known. A woman with a great-paying job doesn't seem to have any more luck getting with a wealthy man than any other woman. 

Now, that said, we all know that women have (in general) a standard of wanting a more successful man than themselves. So, the really successful women I've known have had a higher likelihood of being single.

Men in general want a woman who will try to reciprocate. Equality isn't really important to most of us. The feeling of not being taken advantage of, or taken for granted is.

I've only known a few "Power Couples" (surgeon and attorney, etc).


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## uhtred

Someone who likes to have interesting conversations on the topics that interest me is important. That often correlates with someone's career, but not always.


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## Wolf1974

So long as she is employed and contributes that's all the matters to me. So long as she is happy with her job it's a good thing


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## 247769

Not at all as long as she's happy 

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk


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## wild jade

Bibi1031 said:


> Maybe, but for how long is the issue. Beauty and youth don't last very long.


Long enough, if you play your cards right. And as long as you keep yourself in decent shape and well dressed, you can leverage pretty right into old age.

Sexy is a powerful motivator, particularly for men. Haven't met one yet that doesn't fall for it to some extent. :wink2:


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## Bibi1031

wild jade said:


> Long enough, if you play your cards right. And as long as you keep yourself in decent shape and well dressed, you can leverage pretty right into old age.
> 
> Sexy is a powerful motivator, particularly for men. Haven't met one yet that doesn't fall for it to some extent. :wink2:


So, what type of relationships are you describing with that behavior?


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## wild jade

Bibi1031 said:


> So, what type of relationships are you describing with that behavior?


It would depend on the people. I have a friend, and her fiance told her flat out that she doesn't have to do anything but be pretty. Indeed, he didn't want her to do anything but be pretty for him.

As long as both people are happy with it, why not?


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## 225985

wild jade said:


> That shouldn't matter. Show a bit of leg or cleavage, hint around, give just enough to keep them on the hook. Lots of women have made careers , got married, been given trips around the world, condos, cars, jewelery, everything you can imagine, just by being good at being pretty.


Maybe. But if I had money for trips around the world, condos, cars, jewelery, everything you can imagine I would not be spending time on TAM. I would be with one those women. :wink2:

Well, not really. I will stick with my wife. :grin2:


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## Bibi1031

blueinbr said:


> Maybe. But if I had money for trips around the world, condos, cars, jewelery, everything you can imagine I would not be spending time on TAM.
> 
> Right! And if you are darn hot, why are you spending precious time here when just being pretty can land you so many materialistic things, and even happiness til death due you part?
> 
> Talk about wasting time around here.:surprise:


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## EleGirl

blueinbr said:


> You will learn. Nataly87 was banned. And she is suspected to have returned under new member name(s).


Natalie was banned, given a time out, for a week for attacking others, etc. But when the 7 days was up, she was able to come back like any one else given a time-out ban.

She came back right at the time of the universal password reset and could not get onto TAM. So like a lot of other posters, she created a new account. This has since been resolved. She's sticking with the new account so the Nataly account was banned for now fault of nataly's. 

I stated this on one of her threads. It is resolved and a closed issue.


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## EleGirl

The OP came here to discuss a topic.

Instead of addressing the OP's topic, many of you are turning this into a witch hunt. Well the OP is not Nataly. Could we stop the witch hunt now? Address the op's topic or do not post on this thread.

Now I need to take time to delete the thread jack.


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## 225985

Welcome back Kalpnisis. Mind if we call you Kal for short? :smile2:


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## jsmart

Most men will not care. If a woman is good looking, pleasant, and hasn't been the village bike, she will have many takers. A man that falls for her, will encourage her and build her up. She will not be in that position for long.

It important that women not project their wants and desires onto men. We have different wants, judge the opposite sex by different standards.


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## SunCMars

wild jade said:


> Long enough, if you play your cards right. And as long as you keep yourself in decent shape and well dressed, you can leverage pretty right into old age.
> 
> Sexy is a powerful motivator, particularly for men. Haven't met one yet that doesn't fall for it to some extent. :wink2:


Yea, I get it.

Trophy wife.

What would the two talk about if the guy was rich, and well established, well accomplished?

He would love her look and maybe the sex. However, he would get bored with her if she was a mental dud.

Looks will get you into his bed....but not necessarily into his mind. 
Oh, I know...sugar-daddies will not care too much about personality. But then the good looking gal has to "settle" for cash, not love. 

This works for some gals and guys. Not many.

A bored man is a time bomb.....cheating and divorce, will soon surface.


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## wild jade

SunCMars said:


> Yea, I get it.
> 
> Trophy wife.
> 
> What would the two talk about if the guy was rich, and well established, well accomplished?
> 
> He would love her look and maybe the sex. However, he would get bored with her if she was a mental dud.
> 
> Looks will get you into his bed....but not necessarily into his mind.
> Oh, I know...sugar-daddies will not care too much about personality. But then the good looking gal has to "settle" for cash, not love.
> 
> This works for some gals and guys. Not many.
> 
> A bored man is a time bomb.....cheating and divorce, will soon surface.


It doesn't matter if all you are looking for is someone to take care of you. But I just realized I was responding to what another poster said OP wanted, not OP herself.

OP, why do you ask the question? Are you looking for love, someone to take care of you, or just not to be judged?

I think most men will pay more attention to your looks than your job. I've had a lot of crappy jobs in my day, and it never stopped anyone from wanting me.


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## wild jade

Kivlor said:


> I don't know what the statistics are, but this does not hold true for most of the couples I know and have known. A woman with a great-paying job doesn't seem to have any more luck getting with a wealthy man than any other woman.


This is true. Lots of men actually prefer to be the big money guy, and are threatened by women richer or more successful.

OP you may have more options if you keep the crappy job!


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## jld

jsmart said:


> Most men will not care. If a woman is good looking, pleasant, and hasn't been the village bike, she will have many takers. A man that falls for her, will encourage her and build her up. She will not be in that position for long.
> 
> *It important that women not project their wants and desires onto men. We have different wants, judge the opposite sex by different standards*.


I think this is true. I remember reading once that men do not usually care about income or social status in women. If they like a woman, they just like her. 

We have a local politician who, about 30 years ago, was a high school grad working at a fast food restaurant. A millionaire walked in one day and she took his order. He asked her out on the spot. They married and she started working in his business. 

After having a few children, she came to be interested in politics. His connections, and money, launched her political career. She eventually became a state level politician.

I never voted for her, and do not share her political convictions. But I have to say, her lack of education, at least in today's political climate, did not seem to hurt her chances within her party. And it clearly did not hurt her chances with her husband, either.


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## Duguesclin

Statistically, very few women move up socially through marriage. Poor women tend to hang out with poor guys and often become single mothers. Middle class women end up with middle class guys. 

My wife's job (teacher) did not matter to me. When I met her I was attracted by her mind. She is smart. I wanted a smart wife, and a smart wife is not likely to be a cashier.

I married my wife because we had very similar values and goals. I wanted to have a SAHM for my kids, and she was on board with that. 

It never crossed my mind that my wife would contribute financially to the family. I have always thought that was my responsibility.


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## WorkingWife

Unicus said:


> Yes, what someone does matters to me.
> 
> It's not just a job, and I don't buy into the part that your job identifies who you are, but what you do says loads about who you are and what your emotional abilities are.
> 
> I always wonder what folks with such entirely different jobs find in each other, it must be very primal. It's not just the working class gal reaching for the stars, but also, the CEO who marries his secretary. It's just such an obvious imbalance in both perceived power and ability. it always feels like it's acting out something that should be better addressed in the privacy of a therapists office.
> 
> I recall reading some well done study that indicates that "Opposites" may or may not attract, but it's basic similarities that maintain.


I agree with this in general, except if a woman's desire is to be a mom and home maker, she may be as smart and on a similar emotional level with the CEO but putting her time and energy toward running a household/family rather than having a "job" type career. 

If the woman knew she wanted this from the beginning, she might not have pursued a power position even though she has similar personality traits to the CEO.

Otherwise, I don't imagine a CEO to Secretary match would be that good a fit.


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## uhtred

I know a number of fairly wealthy couples, one wealthy enough to own a private jet. Others at least wealthy enough to travel anywhere they want in the world, drive $100K cars etc. The wives area all fairly normal looking, but typically have careers and educations that are somewhat similar to their husbands.

I don't know any wealthy couples where the woman was the primary source of wealth, even though some of the women are talented professionals. The lack of those women is a whole different topic.

Trophy wives exist, but they may not be as common as many people think. If you are wealthy, beautiful women are available to you, why marry one? You marry someone you want to spend your life with.


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## TX-SC

It wouldn't be a huge deal breaker, but I do prefer a woman with good work ethics and one who is self-sufficient. I don't need someone who won't work or can't make enough to support herself.


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## tech-novelist

The job as such is not terribly important. However, I do require intelligence. An airhead, no matter how pretty, won't do.


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## southbound

I live in a rural area, so I guess we don't consider cashiers and such to be the bottom of the barrel; around here it's just a normal person. It's not like there is a CEO job waiting on every corner around here for men or women. There are two female lawyers in my town and several teachers. Within the bordering counties, there are a handful of female lawyers and doctors. Several women here go into nursing. 

So, if a guy is looking for a woman with a high class job where I live, chances are he may just have to stay single.


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## SunnyT

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you!"


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## arbitrator

Kalpnisis said:


> It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa. So I am curious, say you met or are with a woman who is otherwise nice, pretty, funny etc. but they had some job working as say a cashier at McDonald's or some equally low-level job; something you'd expect a high schooler to have and she had no ambitions to ever get anything better, would that matter to you?


*As long as she was not immorally employed and had a big heart with a caring, Christian spirit, it would make absolutely no difference to me!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Kal, Just go get a job. Any job. That will improve your potential for attracting a quality guy rather than sitting at home (parent's) without job, without ambition, trolling the message boards for some validation of your situation.

Just getting a job and improving your situation IS ambition. 

How about making a pledge to the TAMers who are trying to help you that you will apply for 5 jobs by end of July?

Create a thread asking for help on how to improve your chances of getting a job. We will help.


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## foolscotton3

Imho, it doesn't matter to me what kind of job she has as long as she can support her lifestyle. I would be turned off if she had more debt than salary.

I wouldn't date an escort or stripper and am on the fence when it comes to dating bartenders. Bartenders can make decent money, but over time they tend to make less and less as the years go by (it's a dead end job that produces less income as you age) I would hope a woman would have more ambition to seek better employment while tending bar.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


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## SimplyAmorous

peterrabbit said:


> *Not at all as long as she's happy *


 This would be my husband's response.. very simple & that about sums it up...


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## sokillme

wild jade said:


> If you're pretty enough, you can use that to get most anything you want.


With that attitude it will be hard to get a good relationship though.


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## sokillme

wild jade said:


> It would depend on the people. I have a friend, and her fiance told her flat out that she doesn't have to do anything but be pretty. Indeed, he didn't want her to do anything but be pretty for him.
> 
> As long as both people are happy with it, why not?


That sounds like a great relationship. /s She better stay pretty because that is all she offers him. Someone more pretty may come along, or he may just get tired of her looks. You look at the Mona Lisa enough and it eventually becomes just another painting.


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## SimplyAmorous

jsmart said:


> Most men will not care. If a woman is good looking, pleasant, and hasn't been the village bike, she will have many takers. A man that falls for her, will encourage her and build her up. She will not be in that position for long.
> 
> It important that women not project their wants and desires onto men. We have different wants, judge the opposite sex by different standards.


I'm rather thankful for those differences -in the men that feel this way (not all do though) since I've been a cashier - which means I'm probably not intelligent ... and I really don't think any jobs are beneath me... I just see honest work.. 

I look for positions that work with our schedule so we have optimal time for each other, also the kids schedules so we can fit everything in ....not too far from home and/or if they have good health benefits (always a plus -if we need them down the road)...


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## sokillme

Character is the most important thing. He job can reflect on that somewhat but not much, lack of a job DOES reflect on it a lot though.


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## jsmart

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm rather thankful for those differences -in the men that feel this way (not all do though) since *I've been a cashier - which means I'm probably not intelligent ... and I really don't think any jobs are beneath me... I just see honest work*..
> 
> *I look for positions that work with our schedule so we have optimal time for each other, also the kids schedules so we can fit everything in ....not too far from home and/or if they have good health benefits (always a plus -if we need them down the road*)...


Your family 1st attitude is what men look for in a future wife. Very few men are looking for any woman that's "leaning in." 

As for not being smart because you're a cashier, I disagree. The great majority of corp jobs are meaningless, make work task performed on the cubicle farm. Most of these task can be learned on the job within months by someone that's willing to apply themselves. So don't put yourself down or put corporate drones on a pedestal.


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## jld

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm rather thankful for those differences -in the men that feel this way (not all do though) since I've been a cashier - which means I'm probably not intelligent ... and I really don't think any jobs are beneath me... I just see honest work..
> 
> I look for positions that work with our schedule so we have optimal time for each other, also the kids schedules so we can fit everything in ....not too far from home and/or if they have good health benefits (always a plus -if we need them down the road)...


You are certainly smart, SA. Look at how well you have done with your family's finances. And you research everything.


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## SimplyAmorous

jsmart said:


> Your family 1st attitude is what men look for in a future wife. Very few men are looking for any woman that's "leaning in."
> 
> As for not being smart because you're a cashier, I disagree. The great majority of corp jobs are meaningless, make work task performed on the cubicle farm. Most of these task can be learned on the job within months by someone that's willing to apply themselves. So don't put yourself down or put corporate drones on a pedestal.


To be honest Jsmart.. it's not that I don't love myself (as I do feel I am worthy, a valuable woman with MUCH to offer a man, a family), I'll shovel sh** along with my guy if he needs help... and I love sex !

Yet I read correctly.. I evaluate what others ARE saying.. what they value clashes with what I am.. or lack TO BE with the new expectations.... 

When threads like these take off... people are giving their honest opinions -as they should.....just taking it all in... many DO look down on those who didn't go to college.. we are stereotyped in such a way.. we're not ambitious enough.. we obviously aren't intelligent people as we have wasted our talents.. who is that foolish..who would want to be with someone THAT foolish.. 

I've never been one to give a wealthy man a look.. due to understanding this... I assume most of them would see me in that sort of light.. I'll stay in my own "class", thank you... a shout for the blue collared men out there !



I'm with you.. without character, what is there.. this means more to me over what a man earns (but yes, it matters hugely we can live within our means!) ..so if the man feels this way too.. that's surely a plus .... I'd feel more accepted by him.. not laden with modern expectations of the feminist sort.


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## EllisRedding

Kalpnisis said:


> It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa. So I am curious, say you met or are with a woman who is otherwise nice, pretty, funny etc. *but they had some job working as say a cashier at McDonald's* or some equally low-level job; something you'd expect a high schooler to have and she had no ambitions to ever get anything better, would that matter to you?


Per the bolded, if only ... I can only imagine how much I have spent over the years on McFlurry's that I could've gotten for free!

As far as career, for the most part it would be irrelevant what she does. The relevance would be in how that job would impact our relationship (does she work crazy hours, work weekends, travel a lot, etc...)


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## uhtred

"village bike"?



jsmart said:


> Most men will not care. If a woman is good looking, pleasant, and hasn't been the village bike, she will have many takers. A man that falls for her, will encourage her and build her up. She will not be in that position for long.
> 
> It important that women not project their wants and desires onto men. We have different wants, judge the opposite sex by different standards.


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## EllisRedding

uhtred said:


> "village bike"?


I think jsmart is trying to imply she is giving daily rides to any guy who hops on her seat lol


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## MarriedDude

AngelHeart888 said:


> I would imagine that to some degree, although *you have to account for individual circumstances, a person's job is a reflection on the person's level of intelligence and character. This goes for both men and women.*


That is pretty dangerous way to think...but is typically true in my experience. Because of common error I have been able to exploit people that fall into the trap for a pretty insane advantage. I wear carharts (typically stained in some way), safety yellow t-shirts and dusty work boots...everyday. On a job site, i look like every other working joe there. You'll see me with demo-hammers -diamond saws -tuck-pointers...whatever. This allows me to blend in and study the project and the people running it -closely. It gives me ample opportunity to find the mistakes and over-sights that I can turn into a blizzard of paper resulting in an average contract increases of 70%...every contract. These are not small dollars...think 7 figures.

The point of this example is simply this: A person's job or current position..is likely only the result of circumstance or choices. It will provide almost zero insight into their level of intelligence or character. Relying on initial perceptions based on limited observation will almost certainly guarantee that you get taken to cleaners....especially, if you ever have to swim with the sharks like me. 

This also, IMO, goes for both men and women


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## aine

When I was younger I dated men who would not have been as well educated as me nor have the type of career I was lined up for, it didn't bother me. I even earned much more than my H when I got married. However, now being wiser I would want to be married to a man who is equally intelligent. He must also earn equally if not more than me. Why?

1. Because why the hell should I bust my butt having kids, doing large majority of the household stuff, having inane conversations about trivial crap and also support his ass.

Peace out


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## Emerging Buddhist

Equally spiritual and intelligent... 

Equal earner? Not necessary.

Equal passion... absolutely.

Never let anyone disturb your composure, deter your accomplishment, or destroy your happiness. -Unknown


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## Begin again

RandomDude said:


> Zilch, makes no difference of my opinion of her.
> 
> Unless of course, she's an escort or porn star, then yeah, would be a problem...


funny how most women care what a man does and most men care what a woman looks like. And then women will take issue with men marrying for looks and men take issue with women marrying for money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

aine said:


> When I was younger I dated men who would not have been as well educated as me nor have the type of career I was lined up for, it didn't bother me. I even earned much more than my H when I got married. However, now being wiser I would want to be married to a man who is equally intelligent. He must also earn equally if not more than me. Why?
> 
> 1. Because why the hell should I bust my butt having kids, doing large majority of the household stuff, having inane conversations about trivial crap and also support his ass.
> 
> Peace out


Great post, aine.


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## aine

arbitrator said:


> *As long as she was not immorally employed and had a big heart with a caring, Christian spirit, it would make absolutely no difference to me!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you have hit the nail on the head. The type of person you are going to marry is more important than their earning power, class or educational background. Money/success doesn't guarantee a happy marriage.


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## aine

jld said:


> Great post, aine.



A little facetious but I mean it :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::


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## anonmd

When I was 25 it was important a potential wife to be had a somewhat decent career, nothing specific just something somewhat decent. Why? Because I'm a white collar guy and at that early point in my career frankly we needed the help on the income front. If I'd been blue collar at near peak income at the time maybe it would not have mattered. Now 30 years later the income contribution isn't so important. General intelligence and pleasantness is always important.


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## southbound

I've noticed over the years on TAM, a lot of people speak of "intelligence" as a quality they like, and wanting intelligent conversation. I'm not saying that I would put on my profile that I'm looking for "dumb conversation," but the fact that people make it a point to mention intelligence is just a little unusual to me. I guess I just assume that unless a woman has a mental disability, she is in the normal range of intelligence; I'm not necessarily looking for a female Einstein or rocket scientist. 

I don't know if it's because I live in a rural area where a lot of high caliber jobs aren't available, but I never really thought about a person's job necessarily reflecting their intelligence; I get that to a point, but I have a master's degree, and I never really thought that a woman who worked in a department store, for example, was necessarily dumber than I am. I'm sure there is a lot about what my degree bestowed upon me that she doesn't know, but at the same time, I might look like a dummy if I tried to do her job. I never thought that I should pass on asking out a waitress or cashier because she is probably dumb. I don't know of any people where I live who work in factories and haven't been to college that require assistance from people with college degrees to help them make it through life. 

I've also noticed that a lot of people with book-knowledge can sometimes be lacking in common knowledge. Personally, I prefer a woman with common knowledge. 

What would be an example of some topics people would talk about if they had "intelligent conversation" on a date as opposed to a conversation that is not intelligent?


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## sapientia

WorkingWife said:


> I agree with this in general, except if a woman's desire is to be a mom and home maker, she may be as smart and on a similar emotional level with the CEO but putting her time and energy toward running a household/family rather than having a "job" type career.
> 
> If the woman knew she wanted this from the beginning, she might not have pursued a power position even though she has similar personality traits to the CEO.
> 
> Otherwise, I don't imagine a CEO to Secretary match would be that good a fit.


Respectfully, I disagree. You are describing the *potential*of two women who might start out young with the same intelligence, emotion and energy, but the drive and the execution ability of these two women over time are VERY different. Being a C level exec and running a household and family are not at all the same thing.

Speaking from direct experience, having been and done both.

Beyond my opinion, research also supports this. Women have historically had less cardiovascular disease due to less workplace stress compared to their working husbands. Now that more women are taking on executive level roles, our incidence of CVD is matching those of our male counterparts. There are better studies but here is a quick link:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616071935.htm


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## sapientia

For the wealthy, usually money isn't the issue. It's about being an engaged citizen. Look at Melinda Gates, smart professional woman, worked for Microsoft before getting married. Decided to stay home to raise the family while Bill busted his hump. She stayed active through philanthropic activities and sat various boards, some of which paid (wouldn't be material to them), until they started the Gates Foundation. That's all work, IMO.


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I've noticed over the years on TAM, a lot of people speak of "intelligence" as a quality they like, and wanting intelligent conversation. I'm not saying that I would put on my profile that I'm looking for "dumb conversation," but the fact that people make it a point to mention intelligence is just a little unusual to me. I guess I just assume that unless a woman has a mental disability, she is in the normal range of intelligence; I'm not necessarily looking for a female Einstein or rocket scientist.
> 
> I don't know if it's because I live in a rural area where a lot of high caliber jobs aren't available, but I never really thought about a person's job necessarily reflecting their intelligence; I get that to a point, but I have a master's degree, and I never really thought that a woman who worked in a department store, for example, was necessarily dumber than I am. I'm sure there is a lot about what my degree bestowed upon me that she doesn't know, but at the same time, I might look like a dummy if I tried to do her job. I never thought that I should pass on asking out a waitress or cashier because she is probably dumb. I don't know of any people where I live who work in factories and haven't been to college that require assistance from people with college degrees to help them make it through life.
> 
> I've also noticed that a lot of people with book-knowledge can sometimes be lacking in common knowledge. Personally, I prefer a woman with common knowledge.
> 
> What would be an example of some topics people would talk about if they had "intelligent conversation" on a date as opposed to a conversation that is not intelligent?


Thank you Southbound.. just your reasoning and questions .. I feel so "validated" .....I've been that cashier, I've worked in a factory too... 

2 of our sons hang with a kid who is #1 in his class.. he's brilliant.. he's been playing piano since a young boy... multiple talents... but seriously he's a major GEEK who will probably be a CEO someday..not too good with the woman today.. it will be interesting to see how this plays out ... as I just know he's going to excel at whatever he does.. he's already working with his Professor through the summer -his 1st year at college....

I don't think he's ever had a B in high school...he doesn't even seem to need to study.. it comes so easy for him.. anyway. our sons have made fun of him -how he lacks common sense, giving me scenarios every now & then... 

Not sure I've seen this myself.. but the kid & me (he's 19 now).. when he comes over.. we always get into some intellectual debate standing in the kitchen or something.... as he's gotten older.. somehow this makes me feel pretty good.. as he's awfully smart, way out of my intellectual league... He's like part of our family though...


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## Begin again

southbound said:


> I've noticed over the years on TAM, a lot of people speak of "intelligence" as a quality they like, and wanting intelligent conversation. I'm not saying that I would put on my profile that I'm looking for "dumb conversation," but the fact that people make it a point to mention intelligence is just a little unusual to me. I guess I just assume that unless a woman has a mental disability, she is in the normal range of intelligence; I'm not necessarily looking for a female Einstein or rocket scientist.
> 
> I don't know if it's because I live in a rural area where a lot of high caliber jobs aren't available, but I never really thought about a person's job necessarily reflecting their intelligence; I get that to a point, but I have a master's degree, and I never really thought that a woman who worked in a department store, for example, was necessarily dumber than I am. I'm sure there is a lot about what my degree bestowed upon me that she doesn't know, but at the same time, I might look like a dummy if I tried to do her job. I never thought that I should pass on asking out a waitress or cashier because she is probably dumb. I don't know of any people where I live who work in factories and haven't been to college that require assistance from people with college degrees to help them make it through life.
> 
> I've also noticed that a lot of people with book-knowledge can sometimes be lacking in common knowledge. Personally, I prefer a woman with common knowledge.
> 
> What would be an example of some topics people would talk about if they had "intelligent conversation" on a date as opposed to a conversation that is not intelligent?


The fact that you understand the proper use of a semicolon indicates that the rural area you live in is distinctly different from the areas that surround where I live in the south.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

If she has a big dowry it's all good.


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## southbound

Begin again said:


> The fact that you understand the proper use of a semicolon indicates that the rural area you live in is distinctly different from the areas that surround where I live in the south.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's probably the reason we all have such different approaches to subjects here on TAM; we are describing things from our environment, but we are not aware of other member's everyday environment, but we subconsciously assume it is like our own. 

I find it unusual that a woman makes a point to list intelligence as a quality she wants. I've even seen profiles where women describe themselves as super intelligent. What is a guy supposed to do with that information? Should he come prepared to discuss the theory of relativity and the effect of stars on climate? 

That is what I imagine when I read it; however, maybe these women live in an area with a lot of guys who make fart noises with their hands on first dates and only bath once a month. So, maybe those women are just trying to signal to those guys that they are not interested. Who knows.


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## Begin again




----------



## WorkingWife

sapientia said:


> Beyond my opinion, research also supports this. Women have historically had less cardiovascular disease due to less workplace stress compared to their working husbands. Now that more women are taking on executive level roles, our incidence of CVD is matching those of our male counterparts. There are better studies but here is a quick link:
> 
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616071935.htm


Well that's comforting. (As I stay up half the night trying to get work done once again...)


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## mist42

Depending on my age and career, and what expectations she has, it would matter.

If I'm pushing for manager or executive position my partner is part of the package. Sorry luv.
If I'm a bit older and pretty happy where I'm at, with expenses paid, and she's not costing more than she's earning (ie she's not a dependent) then no doesn't matter.
When I was younger and wanting to buy a house and get kids into good schools then her lack of ambition is a bigger issue than the actual job because it will rub off on the kids values.


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## mist42

aine said:


> When I was younger I dated men who would not have been as well educated as me nor have the type of career I was lined up for, it didn't bother me. I even earned much more than my H when I got married. However, now being wiser I would want to be married to a man who is equally intelligent. He must also earn equally if not more than me. Why?
> 
> 1. Because why the hell should I bust my butt having kids, doing large majority of the household stuff, having inane conversations about trivial crap and also support his ass.
> 
> Peace out


Why should he be expected to do the same for her?


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## joannacroc

Wolf1974 said:


> So long as she is employed and contributes that's all the matters to me. So long as she is happy with her job it's a good thing


Thing is, I totally agree - that is how it should be if there is an income gap. But I have seen many men (or women but it has typically been men) in marital difficulties on this forum get very angry and resentful at the income gap when it comes to any friction in the marriage. "How could she disagree with me on suchandsuch an issue when I am carrying her financially?" etc. That in turn can create resentment from the lower paid spouse, as they feel like their hard work isn't being appreciated because their paycheck is low. Often instead they are shouldering some of the child responsibilities if there are children in the marriage.


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## Wolf1974

joannacroc said:


> Thing is, I totally agree - that is how it should be if there is an income gap. But I have seen many men (or women but it has typically been men) in marital difficulties on this forum get very angry and resentful at the income gap when it comes to any friction in the marriage. "How could she disagree with me on suchandsuch an issue when I am carrying her financially?" etc. That in turn can create resentment from the lower paid spouse, as they feel like their hard work isn't being appreciated because their paycheck is low. Often instead they are shouldering some of the child responsibilities if there are children in the marriage.


Could be. I mean I have never been in a situation where a spouse didn't make enough to really help so just don't know how that would feel. I do know money isn't the driving force of my life and I will never be rich nor would I want to be. so as long as they contribute to the household income and it's our money I think i would be good.

I do want change my original answer though. I wouldn't marry a woman who did certain jobs like stripping or porn, wasn't thinking of those when I originally answered. I also couldn't be with a woman who traveled all the time for work. So her job does matter to some degree just not the income so much.


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## Married but Happy

What she does for work/career does not matter, as long as she has been and continues to be able to support herself if necessary. Ideally, if I'm laid off or become disabled, she could adequately support us and provide benefits such as health insurance. Divorce is also a reality of life that affects over 40% of marriages, so it's a serious risk if you can't support yourself should that happen - both for the lower paid/nonworking spouse and for their partner who may have to pay spousal support to maintain the ex's lifestyle while no longer receiving any of the benefits that were provided while married.

So, while the job itself doesn't matter, she needs to have a job! Of course, a later illness or disability changes that requirement, for as long as she is unable to work, but she still needs to do whatever _is_ within her capability to support the relationship.


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## Mommywhatohnothing

Also it needs to be remembered that intelligence doesn't mean someone is going to have a high paying job. Some very intelligent people work for next to nothing in the non profit sector. Generally because they care about making a difference and having a positive impact on society. I'm in social work, my employer is a non profit job placement agency for people on disability. My position as the job training coordinator requires a masters degree. I work 60+ hours a week and make $23,000 a year and I get no benefits. I wouldn't trade my job for anything because I love knowing that I'm helping people to improve their lives. When my divorce is final, I'll be looking to start dating men who care about helping others and making the world a better place, rather than another man like my STBX who only cares about money and feeding his ego.


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## tech-novelist

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm rather thankful for those differences -in the men that feel this way (not all do though) since I've been a cashier - which means I'm probably not intelligent ... and I really don't think any jobs are beneath me... I just see honest work..
> 
> I look for positions that work with our schedule so we have optimal time for each other, also the kids schedules so we can fit everything in ....not too far from home and/or if they have good health benefits (always a plus -if we need them down the road)...


Anyone who uses the word "optimal" correctly has a fair amount of intelligence. :grin2:


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## tech-novelist

aine said:


> When I was younger I dated men who would not have been as well educated as me nor have the type of career I was lined up for, it didn't bother me. I even earned much more than my H when I got married. However, now being wiser I would want to be married to a man who is equally intelligent. He must also earn equally if not more than me. Why?
> 
> 1. Because why the hell should I bust my butt having kids, doing large majority of the household stuff, having inane conversations about trivial crap and also support his ass.
> 
> Peace out


Most women prefer to marry "up", in intelligence, earning ability, you name it.

Most men don't have that same preference.

Which is fortunate, because (obviously) it's impossible for both people to do that. :smile2:


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## tech-novelist

southbound said:


> What would be an example of some topics people would talk about if they had "intelligent conversation" on a date as opposed to a conversation that is not intelligent?


Here are a few topics that would probably distinguish the two:

1. The problem of quark confinement.
2. How and why the Federal Reserve is destroying the economy.
3. The meaning and purpose of the 9th Amendment.

Do you need more? >


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## Coffee4me2

Kalpnisis said:


> It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa. So I am curious, say you met or are with a woman who is otherwise nice, pretty, funny etc. but they had some job working as say a cashier at McDonald's or some equally low-level job; something you'd expect a high schooler to have and she had no ambitions to ever get anything better, would that matter to you?




In my recent experience with men wanting to date it is more of a turn off to be a career minded ambitious woman. That being said I wouldn't change my drive and ambition for any man. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Begin again

Mommywhatohnothing said:


> Also it needs to be remembered that intelligence doesn't mean someone is going to have a high paying job. Some very intelligent people work for next to nothing in the non profit sector. Generally because they care about making a difference and having a positive impact on society. I'm in social work, my employer is a non profit job placement agency for people on disability. My position as the job training coordinator requires a masters degree. I work 60+ hours a week and make $23,000 a year and I get no benefits. I wouldn't trade my job for anything because I love knowing that I'm helping people to improve their lives. When my divorce is final, I'll be looking to start dating men who care about helping others and making the world a better place, rather than another man like my STBX who only cares about money and feeding his ego.


This is all well and good, but if both people make $25k/yr, you'll never be able to save and retire... Especially if you have kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Coffee4me2 said:


> In my recent experience with men wanting to date it is more of a turn off to be a career minded ambitious woman. That being said I wouldn't change my drive and ambition for any man.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've seen both. Men who were left by their high earning wives who don't want a woman who out earns them and men who are paying 2/3 of their income in child support and alimony who find a woman who can support herself refreshing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound

Let me ask this question to the ladies; perhaps it will help me understand.

I don't know if a person's job and potential earning ability always comes up on a first date or encounter, but let's say it doesn't. Let's say you meet a guy and go out with him a few times and you seem to click. You're thinking, "Wow, I really like this guy." Then, after a few dates, you discover his job isn't the classiest and doesn't have the potential to earn quite what you have in mind. Would that be enough to end the relationship for you?

If so, how does being in love play into that. If you don't believe in love in that manner, that's ok, some don't, but I'm just curious.


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## Begin again

southbound said:


> Let me ask this question to the ladies; perhaps it will help me understand.
> 
> I don't know if a person's job and potential earning ability always comes up on a first date or encounter, but let's say it doesn't. Let's say you meet a guy and go out with him a few times and you seem to click. You're thinking, "Wow, I really like this guy." Then, after a few dates, you discover his job isn't the classiest and doesn't have the potential to earn quite what you have in mind. Would that be enough to end the relationship for you?
> 
> If so, how does being in love play into that. If you don't believe in love in that manner, that's ok, some don't, but I'm just curious.


Let's separate job from income from class. Here's my view:

If you make six figures but are a plumber, I probably won't be interested in you because I wouldn't want to date someone blue collar. Just my preference (please don't spear me!) 

So, what if a man has an advanced degree but bad $ prospects? Wouldn't date him, either. (Just had that, in fact. The guy was a VP and earned over $150k a year, but he was also separated, paid 2/3 of his income to his wife, had one kid in college and two more would be in the next few years and was already $40k in debt. So... It would be probably a decade before this guy would be in the black again and while that didn't impact my decision to date him initially, I definitely knew it would impact my decision to let anything get serious.

Lastly, what if the guy made good money and had a good degree but was low class? Wouldnt date him, either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

tech-novelist said:


> Here are a few topics that would probably distinguish the two:
> 
> 1. The problem of quark confinement.
> 2. How and why the Federal Reserve is destroying the economy.
> 3. The meaning and purpose of the 9th Amendment.
> 
> Do you need more? >


I'm with you on #3. The first would bore me and the second is biased and leading... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound

Begin again said:


> Let's separate job from income from class. Here's my view:
> 
> If you make six figures but are a plumber, I probably won't be interested in you because I wouldn't want to date someone blue collar. Just my preference (please don't spear me!)
> 
> So, what if a man has an advanced degree but bad $ prospects? Wouldn't date him, either. (Just had that, in fact. The guy was a VP and earned over $150k a year, but he was also separated, paid 2/3 of his income to his wife, had one kid in college and two more would be in the next few years and was already $40k in debt. So... It would be probably a decade before this guy would be in the black again and while that didn't impact my decision to date him initially, I definitely knew it would impact my decision to let anything get serious.
> 
> Lastly, what if the guy made good money and had a good degree but was low class? Wouldnt date him, either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I won't spear you. I'm actually glad to read these honest opinions. I've learned so much about people in the last few years.

Please don't take anything that I might type here as trying to put you down; I'm just a straight forward person. So, if I interpret this correctly, it's all about a good income combined with being upper class for you. Is that correct? 

I'm curious, do you come from a wealthy upper-class family? 

When you say a guy makes good money but is low class, what do you mean by low class? Do you mean he's a scum bag, or that perhaps he came from a blue collar family?

I'm curious also as to where love plays into this. Do you believe in the head-over-heals type of love where you want to grow old with someone, or is it more of a business decision for you? I'm more into a person's character than their income. Does character play a part with you? I'm not down on either, I'm just curious.


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## Begin again

southbound said:


> I won't spear you. I'm actually glad to read these honest opinions. I've learned so much about people in the last few years.
> 
> Please don't take anything that I might type here as trying to put you down; I'm just a straight forward person. So, if I interpret this correctly, it's all about a good income combined with being upper class for you. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm curious, do you come from a wealthy upper-class family?
> 
> When you say a guy makes good money but is low class, what do you mean by low class? Do you mean he's a scum bag, or that perhaps he came from a blue collar family?
> 
> I'm curious also as to where love plays into this. Do you believe in the head-over-heals type of love where you want to grow old with someone, or is it more of a business decision for you? I'm more into a person's character than their income. Does character play a part with you? I'm not down on either, I'm just curious.


Yes, I came from money. Not big $, but we had nice things, country club membership, etc. 

Despite being separated and many not so good relationships prior to my marriage, I still believe in love. I won't be in a relationship for long without it. My ideal man is smart, funny, my equal, sexy.

I make my own money - over six figures after bonuses, and I have very little debt. I expect my SO to be responsilbe financially, too. 

As for class, it comes down to how a person holds themselves. You can have little money but know how to carry yourself, how to be gracious, how to set a table and cook a meal. Or you can have money and drive a car that just advertises your $$ because you need everyone to know what you've got (low class).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound

Begin again said:


> Or you can have money and drive a car that just advertises your $$ because you need everyone to know what you've got (low class)._Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a little different angle, but can you see where some would view the fact that you wouldn't date a blue collar man, even if he made big money, as having your nose in the air just the same as the guy who shows off his car? Do you see a major difference?

Just curious, why would you not date a plumber, even if he made big money and was a good guy? I get that it's just your preference, but can you identify a reason?

Are you in a situation where you are mostly around people that are in your class? I live in an area where we have classes if one wants to get technical about it, but the rich, poor, and everyone in between mingles at the same social events, eats at the same restaurants, etc. I guess that's just a characteristic of a small town.

Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just straight forward. Feel free to ask me any question or make an observation, even if you think it cuts deep. Ouch! :grin2:


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## SimplyAmorous

joannacroc said:


> Thing is, I totally agree - that is how it should be if there is an income gap. *But I have seen many men (or women but it has typically been men) in marital difficulties on this forum get very angry and resentful at the income gap when it comes to any friction in the marriage. "How could she disagree with me on suchandsuch an issue when I am carrying her financially?" etc. That in turn can create resentment from the lower paid spouse, as they feel like their hard work isn't being appreciated because their paycheck is low.* Often instead they are shouldering some of the child responsibilities if there are children in the marriage.


I can honestly say I have never been met with this attitude .. not even once from my husband in all our years together... 

I surely understand there are men who DO this.. and it would be awful to be on the receiving end.. 

Mine has always uplifted/ praised my contribution saying he'd be lost without me.. . even though at times his income was 95% and mine was a measly 5% ... 

I very much appreciate him for being this sort of man..


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## SimplyAmorous

Begin again said:


> This is all well and good, but if both people make $25k/yr, you'll never be able to save and retire... Especially if you have kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I beg to differ... although it wasn't 2 of us making this much.. it was him making around $50,000 or less while I made about $4,000... and we have more kids than most... he's contributed to his retirement plan for the last 16 yrs.. a nice chunk is in there now.. (his employer never matched it either)... also we've managed to be debt free before our last son.. owning a house, acres of property, 3 stall garage, all cars paid for (but older of course).. 

Though it helps to live in a lower cost area.. we get a break on our taxes from a "Clean & Green program".. 

When buying our house.. we had near half to put down on it.. and paid it off in 7 years.. and mind you... when we bought that house.. he was making peanuts.. working at a Grocery store, he was a manager of a Dept.. but still -the pay was low... and still we bought a house/ property most would never believe our income could afford.. 

If a couple is very frugal.. it is do-able.. our kids have never went without - but that doesn't mean they carry expensive cell phones.. (they use an Ipod )...I carry a Tracfone... my husband is our handy man / mechanic... I'm one of those who makes $$ off our credit cards...(about $400 + a year, never paid interest yet)...our credit is in the 800's ...

It is getting more difficult every year for families ...a living wage is hard to come by...the price of food is outrageous.. though even that.. I've met people cooking for 2 that spends more on food than we do cooking for a family of 8 !! I use coupons, BOGO, lower cost grocery stores ...we eat around the deals.. and load our freezer when they come...

But to say...no one can do it... Naaaah.. though we were a couple who started saving in our teens for our future..it's been a lifestyle..


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## Begin again

southbound said:


> It's a little different angle, but can you see where some would view the fact that you wouldn't date a blue collar man, even if he made big money, as having your nose in the air just the same as the guy who shows off his car? Do you see a major difference?
> 
> Just curious, why would you not date a plumber, even if he made big money and was a good guy? I get that it's just your preference, but can you identify a reason?
> 
> Are you in a situation where you are mostly around people that are in your class? I live in an area where we have classes if one wants to get technical about it, but the rich, poor, and everyone in between mingles at the same social events, eats at the same restaurants, etc. I guess that's just a characteristic of a small town.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just straight forward. Feel free to ask me any question or make an observation, even if you think it cuts deep. Ouch! :grin2:


Most of the people I know and associate with are middle to upper middle class, not really now but at least in their upbringing. It's just who I'm comfortable with. I equate it to race or religion in some ways. If you believe certain things as a Christian, it's easier to date someone who is also Christian. Or if you are from India, it's easier to date, marry, and generally relate to someone else who is also from India. It's not that my nose is in the air, per se. I will admit that when I see someone eat fried soul food and follow it up with cleaning their teeth with a toothpick, I cringe. I'm from the South, but not of it.

And since you offered to answer questions, I am curious why you are curious. What are you hoping to find/understand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

tech-novelist said:


> Anyone who uses the word "optimal" correctly has a fair amount of intelligence. :grin2:


That's an interesting way to put it.. when I was younger.. I worked for a Financial planner as a Secretary.. he was always pushing for me to go to College.. be a Paralegal.. I disappointed him as I kept telling him I wanted to get married and have kids.. oh what can you do.. 

I could have done more with my life.. I don't think I am stupid by any means..

At least I feel we got our kids off to a good start.. they will be reaching higher than we did.. though our 1st son made a terrible choice in taking Psychology - what a worthless degree that is - unless one goes on to get a Masters.... and he has zero interest.. ain't happening.. 

Though he's a chip off the old block.. he's managed to save $12,000 in 9 months.. he wants to buy houses and be a Land Lord.. I think that's a horrendous idea.. but I can't seem to shake this out of his head.. I guess we'll see..


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## Begin again

SimplyAmorous said:


> That's an interesting way to put it.. when I was younger.. I worked for a Financial planner as a Secretary.. he was always pushing for me to go to College.. be a Paralegal.. I disappointed him as I kept telling him I wanted to get married and have kids.. oh what can you do..
> 
> I could have done more with my life.. I don't think I am stupid by any means..
> 
> At least I feel we got our kids off to a good start.. they will be reaching higher than we did.. though our 1st son made a terrible choice in taking Psychology - what a worthless degree that is - unless one goes on to get a Masters.... and he has zero interest.. ain't happening..
> 
> Though he's a chip off the old block.. he's managed to save $12,000 in 9 months.. he wants to buy houses and be a Land Lord.. I think that's a horrendous idea.. but I can't seem to shake this out of his head.. I guess we'll see..


Don't discount your son's psych degree. I have a BA in humanities and have done just fine. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

Begin again said:


> Don't discount your son's psych degree. I have a BA in humanities and have done just fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I discount it - and maybe I should HIM.. he doesn't try hard enough to find something else.. he has a pretty poor paying job.. ($12 something an hour.. heck I make more than him !) works like 60+ hours a week..

I keep telling him to apply other places...go for it.. spread his resume around.. I hate to say he is lazy .. obviously work wise he is not.. but looking for a better job.. it's like he needs someone to put fire under his a$$... hard for me to understand.. :banghead:


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> Let me ask this question to the ladies; perhaps it will help me understand.
> 
> I don't know if a person's job and potential earning ability always comes up on a first date or encounter, but let's say it doesn't. Let's say you meet a guy and go out with him a few times and you seem to click. You're thinking, "Wow, I really like this guy." Then, after a few dates, you discover his job isn't the classiest and doesn't have the potential to earn quite what you have in mind. Would that be enough to end the relationship for you?
> 
> If so, how does being in love play into that. If you don't believe in love in that manner, that's ok, some don't, but I'm just curious.


You already know how I feel @southbound .... it's all about "character" to me.. how the man treats his woman..does he have the same values, etc.. 

The primary financial concern I would have -if he was low income.. (heck if he was HIGH income too ) is.... 

*CAN THIS MAN LIVE WITHIN HIS MEANS??* ..also how much debt is he in.. does he have something to show for all these years.... I'd shriek from anyone in big debt.. maybe even small debt -depending.. 

Also I'd fight & likely cause all sorts of hell if I married a low income frivolous spender...

As a saver.. I would look upon him as my mortal enemy causing all our dreams to die...

Outside of that.. he can be a Custodian, a Garbage truck man, even work sucking out septic tanks.. I wouldn't care... 

Lower income people can dream too.. they just need to be very savvy in how they manage their money... there is always that other side ...maybe someone is TOO TIGHT... he'd be complaining about every little thing.. or we couldn't spend some excess on a vacation.. I wouldn't be able to deal with that either... I mean .. money is still there to use for our enjoyment too..


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## jld

Begin again said:


> I'm from the South, but not of it.


----------



## southbound

Begin again said:


> And since you offered to answer questions, I am curious why you are curious. What are you hoping to find/understand?_Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing too earth shattering, I'm just intrigued with how people think and what makes them tick, especially if it is in contrast to how I think and behave. I've probably driven SA to insanity with all my questions and discussions about human behavior over the years here at TAM. :grin2:

I've been exposed to a lot of opinions and lifestyles that are different to mine since joining TAM a few years ago, and it fascinates me. I grew up in a small town and was taught old fashioned values, and I guess I thought that all typical people thought that way to a degree, but I learned differently as I grew older. 

I wasn't naive enough to think that everyone thought and behaved alike in the entire country; I was well aware that there were some different thinkers out there, but i guess i assumed they were the exceptions. I assumed that everyone who led a somewhat typical life of having a job and raising kids were somewhat on the same page. I never imagined that opinions could be so different about what is "right and wrong," for example. 

As for the specific topic of this thread, as I stated, I look more at the character of a person and not class, job, or income, and it's interesting to hear the other side. 

I think at some point in our lives, we get the textbook lesson about how no one person is better than the other because of their job or place in life and how we are all just human beings, that the lawyer is really no better than the plumber, blah, blah. At the end of the lesson, we all clap and say how much we agree, but in reality, I know it's not that way. I've discovered that people do classify people's worth by what they own or what they have achieved career wise. 

The example you gave makes a lot of sense about just feeling comfortable around people that are like you. I get that. I'm sure I'd feel out of place trying to mingle in Beverly Hills or an Amish community alike. My brother actually asked an Amish girl out once. She worked in a restaurant/store that the Amish owned. She turned him down, but it had nothing to do with money. :grin2:

Thanks for answering my questions. I could write a book someday about all I've learned on TAM.


----------



## tech-novelist

Begin again said:


> This is all well and good, but if both people make $25k/yr, you'll never be able to save and retire... Especially if you have kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, reality has a way of making itself known.

Unfortunately that happens a bit too late for a lot of people...


----------



## tech-novelist

Begin again said:


> Don't discount your son's psych degree. I have a BA in humanities and have done just fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a BA in "Natural Sciences", which involved next to no lab work. It hasn't hurt me as far as I can tell... but then I found out I liked programming very early in my career, and a good programmer can almost always find work.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> As for the specific topic of this thread, as I stated, I look more at the character of a person and not class, job, or income, and it's interesting to hear the other side.
> 
> I think at some point in our lives, we get the textbook lesson about how no one person is better than the other because of their job or place in life and how we are all just human beings, that the lawyer is really no better than the plumber, blah, blah. At the end of the lesson, we all clap and say how much we agree, *but in reality, I know it's not that way. I've discovered that people do classify people's worth by what they own or what they have achieved career wise. *


 What you were taught was always what I was taught or gleamed from sitting in the church pew anyway.. and I felt it was *"GOOD"*... 

Like you.. I see the reality all around us.. in our advertisements, the peer pressure in schools, how we choose a mate, it's reflected in our TV shows, magazines, our music...

It's also why I appreciate the more "Inspirational" movies, or those things off the beaten path.. to remind us what is really important...

Husband spoke of a quote he has hanging in his locker at work- when I mentioned this thread the other day..he brought it home to me today...this was it..


----------



## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> What you were taught was always what I was taught or gleamed from sitting in the church pew anyway.. and I felt it was *"GOOD"*...
> 
> Like you.. I see the reality all around us.. in our advertisements, the peer pressure in schools, how we choose a mate, it's reflected in our TV shows, magazines, our music...
> 
> It's also why I appreciate the more "Inspirational" movies, or those things off the beaten path.. to remind us what is really important...
> 
> Husband spoke of a quote he has hanging in his locker at work- when I mentioned this thread the other day..he brought it home to me today...this was it..


I really like all these quotes you share. I like them because I agree with them i suppose. The sad part about them is that I feel they often fall on blind eyes and deaf ears, and I don't just mean on TAM, but in society as a whole. 

It's one of those things that people read and perhaps think, "Oh, that's witty or that's nice," or perhaps they wonder about the person who wrote it, but people don't usually stop and ponder if it should apply to their lives or if it's really true. It's just a neat little quote. 

I was watching a talk show the other day, and there was a lady who had experienced an illness, and now that she pulled through, she said that she no longer worried about things that she once did. She is stopping to smell the roses. The host asked what she worried about now and she replied something like, "I don't worry about anything."

My brother made the comment how that he and i are already low worriers and are smelling the roses, and we didn't have to have a catastrophic experience in life to get that way. I often wonder why others can't see it until a life altering experience happens. It's like the old saying, "Nobody ever said on his death bed, gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office."


----------



## Begin again

southbound said:


> Nothing too earth shattering, I'm just intrigued with how people think and what makes them tick, especially if it is in contrast to how I think and behave. I've probably driven SA to insanity with all my questions and discussions about human behavior over the years here at TAM. :grin2:
> 
> I've been exposed to a lot of opinions and lifestyles that are different to mine since joining TAM a few years ago, and it fascinates me. I grew up in a small town and was taught old fashioned values, and I guess I thought that all typical people thought that way to a degree, but I learned differently as I grew older.
> 
> I wasn't naive enough to think that everyone thought and behaved alike in the entire country; I was well aware that there were some different thinkers out there, but i guess i assumed they were the exceptions. I assumed that everyone who led a somewhat typical life of having a job and raising kids were somewhat on the same page. I never imagined that opinions could be so different about what is "right and wrong," for example.
> 
> As for the specific topic of this thread, as I stated, I look more at the character of a person and not class, job, or income, and it's interesting to hear the other side.
> 
> I think at some point in our lives, we get the textbook lesson about how no one person is better than the other because of their job or place in life and how we are all just human beings, that the lawyer is really no better than the plumber, blah, blah. At the end of the lesson, we all clap and say how much we agree, but in reality, I know it's not that way. I've discovered that people do classify people's worth by what they own or what they have achieved career wise.
> 
> The example you gave makes a lot of sense about just feeling comfortable around people that are like you. I get that. I'm sure I'd feel out of place trying to mingle in Beverly Hills or an Amish community alike. My brother actually asked an Amish girl out once. She worked in a restaurant/store that the Amish owned. She turned him down, but it had nothing to do with money. :grin2:
> 
> Thanks for answering my questions. I could write a book someday about all I've learned on TAM.


I see. I should clarify that I do value people for who they are rather than how much they have in the bank. What I have found is that "good old fashioned values" aren't all that good. I grew up in the South, but in true suburbia and only as an adult did I come to understand that most people in the South were not like me and my family. I didn't really see the racism, the bigotry toward non Christians that exists here until I became an adult. My former in laws (who, by the way are rural and blue collar and are part of how I became so much more aware of how people with "old fashioned values" really think) and Facebook really opened my eyes. And many other experience

I can't tell you how many people I know who were raised in church with traditional values who go on to lie, cheat on their spouses, show overt racism. I see it daily. Meanwhile the heathen (me) who doesn't believe in a Christian God doesn't just say I tell the truth, paymy taxes, act kind to people different from me, etc. - I actually do/am. I see hipocracy around me so much it's almost nauseating. 

Not that I want to bring politics into it, but I can't help but think of all these people I know who supposedly have traditional values that will go on to vote for Donald Trump, a man who has openly called for a ban on all Muslims entering America. And people cheer when he says that... and I cringe and look around and wonder why these people think they are the ones with good values.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

SimplyAmorous said:


> You already know how I feel @southbound .... it's all about "character" to me.. how the man treats his woman..does he have the same values, etc..
> 
> The primary financial concern I would have -if he was low income.. (heck if he was HIGH income too ) is....
> 
> *CAN THIS MAN LIVE WITHIN HIS MEANS??* ..also how much debt is he in.. does he have something to show for all these years.... I'd shriek from anyone in big debt.. maybe even small debt -depending..
> 
> Also I'd fight & likely cause all sorts of hell if I married a low income frivolous spender...
> 
> As a saver.. I would look upon him as my mortal enemy causing all our dreams to die...
> 
> Outside of that.. he can be a Custodian, a Garbage truck man, even work sucking out septic tanks.. I wouldn't care...
> 
> Lower income people can dream too.. they just need to be very savvy in how they manage their money... there is always that other side ...maybe someone is TOO TIGHT... he'd be complaining about every little thing.. or we couldn't spend some excess on a vacation.. I wouldn't be able to deal with that either... I mean .. money is still there to use for our enjoyment too..


I'm much like you here, SA. My soon to be ex and I rarely fought over money because I knew he wouldn't overspend and he knew I wouldn't. I can't live paycheck to paycheck, either. Couldn't sleep at night if I did. I am tighter than you are with money, I think, as I don't like spending it and do sometimes have trouble enjoying something because I keep thinking about what it costs.

Curious, SA... What does your husband do for a living? And does he have a degree?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Begin again said:


> I'm much like you here, SA. My soon to be ex and I rarely fought over money because I knew he wouldn't overspend and he knew I wouldn't. I can't live paycheck to paycheck, either. Couldn't sleep at night if I did. I am tighter than you are with money, I think, as I don't like spending it and do sometimes have trouble enjoying something because I keep thinking about what it costs.
> 
> Curious, SA... What does your husband do for a living? And does he have a degree?


We've never had a blow up over money due to us being just like you described here... when he gave me my engagement ring...can you imagine...after realizing it was the one I admired when we were out looking together at the Mall...

I said "







why did you spend that much [email protected]#"... Very sweet of him.. but not necessary for me.. looking back.. It's a gesture to please the woman he loves ....and today what he spent seems "small" but not back then to us young people with lousy jobs, I felt every dime should be saved for a house... 

I was surely "tighter" in our younger years because I/we had a dream to buy a country home / a little land...(my hearts desire & kids)...he was a city boy but also wanted what I wanted...

Once he got the better Job (approx 9 yrs into our marriage)....I eased up some, then more so when our house / property was paid off 7 yrs later.... those were clear goals we had , something to celebrate...

But never during any of those years did I/we deprive ourselves of something we really wanted..since we never lived paycheck to paycheck.. the money was THERE.... like a new SLR, taking family vacations.. enjoying day trips, museums, you name it... we'd go to the $1 theater... things like that.. we'd still have the MOVIE experience.. we'd just wait till the movie has been out a while till it hits those theaters.. we'd also go to Disney.. just never stay on Property.. 

WHat does he do for a living.. works for the RR, we were bracing for a Layoff but so far.. for now.. seems he'll be OK...but needs to get a CDL like in the next month (working on that- got his permit last week) due to a change in his job description.. he's getting a load of overtime right now since they've laid off nearly all the employees at his shop... in the last 3 days, he worked (2) 16 hr shifts..

No degrees between us.. he did go to a Computer school before we married.. got some sort of certificate.. but this never did him any good... none of the jobs he applied for -even if the wage was higher...either they lacked the health benefits or something.. so he didn't take them... oh well.. it all worked out in the end..


----------



## tech-novelist

Begin again said:


> I see *hipocracy *around me so much it's almost nauseating.


Rule by hip people? Or by people who shoot from the hip? >


----------



## southbound

Begin again said:


> I see. I should clarify that I do value people for who they are rather than how much they have in the bank. What I have found is that "good old fashioned values" aren't all that good. I grew up in the South, but in true suburbia and only as an adult did I come to understand that most people in the South were not like me and my family. I didn't really see the racism, the bigotry toward non Christians that exists here until I became an adult. My former in laws (who, by the way are rural and blue collar and are part of how I became so much more aware of how people with "old fashioned values" really think) and Facebook really opened my eyes. And many other experience
> 
> I can't tell you how many people I know who were raised in church with traditional values who go on to lie, cheat on their spouses, show overt racism. I see it daily. Meanwhile the heathen (me) who doesn't believe in a Christian God doesn't just say I tell the truth, paymy taxes, act kind to people different from me, etc. - I actually do/am. I see hipocracy around me so much it's almost nauseating.


I've noticed that when one speaks of the "good old days" or "old fashioned values" here, it tends to leave a bad taste in some people's mouth. Sadly, you are correct about your observation. There are people who would consider themselves in the old fashioned values crowd that lie and cheat on their spouses and a lot of other deplorable things; however, I don't believe that is because they claim old fashioned values, but because there are bad eggs in all aspects of society. I don't think that people become all good just because you travel north or are white collar instead of blue collar.

When I speak of old fashioned values, I'm talking about the things that I consider to be good things, back when times seemed simpler and at a slower pace. Things that might be depicted on old tv shows like The Waltons and Little House On the Prairie. I know those are just tv shows, but that's what I think of when I think of old fashioned values because that has been my experience. I would also add when people were honest and marriage was considered forever, but I know you have had some opposite experience with this.

If I'm reading this correctly, your additional comments have led me to better understand why you might not want to be with a blue collar worker, even if he did have money. It's not because you are snooty, but because in your experience, those people in your life have left a bad example.  My experience has been the opposite, so that is why I have a positive view of old fashioned values. It's been my experience that the white collar people are the ones who lie and cheat on their spouses. That is why I believe it is about the people in general, not a region or label.

I'm curious. In your experience, have you found the country club crowd to be the more honest and respectable people?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Begin again said:


> I see. I should clarify that I do value people for who they are rather than how much they have in the bank. What I have found is that "good old fashioned values" aren't all that good. I grew up in the South, but in true suburbia and only as an adult did I come to understand that most people in the South were not like me and my family. I didn't really see the racism, the bigotry toward non Christians that exists here until I became an adult. My former in laws (who, by the way are rural and blue collar and are part of how I became so much more aware of how people with "old fashioned values" really think) and Facebook really opened my eyes. And many other experience
> 
> *I can't tell you how many people I know who were raised in church with traditional values who go on to lie, cheat on their spouses, show overt racism. I see it daily. Meanwhile the heathen (me) who doesn't believe in a Christian God doesn't just say I tell the truth, paymy taxes, act kind to people different from me, etc. - I actually do/am. I see hipocracy around me so much it's almost nauseating.
> *


 I believe @southbound 's and my experience has been very different from yours.. it has to be.. 

Some of the most wonderful kind people I've ever known & call my friends are those who regularly attend church... though true.. I've seen my share of hypocrites too.. I try not to use this word too much as it references disdain to religious people specifically, stereotyping them... and really.. anyone who judges another for something they have done or DO -even if behind closed doors - is a hypocrite.. one doesn't have to be of a faith at all.. 



> When I speak of old fashioned values, I'm talking about the things that I consider to be good things, back when times seemed simpler and at a slower pace. Things that might be depicted on old tv shows like The Waltons and Little House On the Prairie. I know those are just tv shows, but that's what I think of when I think of old fashioned values because that has been my experience. I would also add when people were honest and marriage was considered forever, but I know you have had some opposite experience with this.


 I think the thing that bothers me is... even if we are speaking of the positives of the past...(example : the feeling I get when I read this....though we don't really do the Sir & Ma'am &our kids would see us pretty FUN too, not just Disciplinarians)......










it just appears a great majority can't find any redeeming value in *any of it*...

Given this realization...I have to believe that people are Happy to TINDER their way through life, that long lasting intimacy/ commitment is just not something people care about anymore, ... Some may argue we never did ... we were just pressured culturally to Play a moral role, basically > Conformity. 

I guess this is where the divide is for me.. I appreciate & feel that way of living is beautiful, fulfilling and the ultimate dream... it's just that fewer & fewer feel as I feel...

I found this article >> Why Modern Relationships Never Last...just posting a part of it...this is our new normal....



> We’re a generation of ‘wanderers’ who wouldn’t stay at one place for too long. Everyone is commitment phobic. We believe we’re not meant for relationships. We don’t want to settle down. Even the thought of it is scary. We cannot imagine being with one person for the rest of our lives. We walk away. We despise permanence like its some social evil. We like to believe we’re ‘different’ than the rest. We like to believe we don’t conform to social norms.
> 
> We’re a generation that calls itself ‘sexually liberated’. We can tell sex apart from love, or so we think. We’re the hook-up-break-up generation. We have sex first and then decide if we want to love someone. Sex comes easy, loyalty doesn’t. Getting laid has become the new getting drunk. You do it not because you love the other person, but because you want to feel good. It’s all the temporary fulfillment we need. Sex outside relationships isn’t a taboo anymore. Relationships aren’t that simple anymore. There are open relationships, friends with benefits, causal flings, one-night stands, no strings attached – we’ve left very little exclusivity for love in our lives.


----------



## Buddy400

tech-novelist said:


> I have a BA in "Natural Sciences", which involved next to no lab work. It hasn't hurt me as far as I can tell... but then I found out I liked programming very early in my career, and a good programmer can almost always find work.


But you and I got into programming before HR took control.

In the good old days it wasn't unusual to be a highly paid programmer and not even have a degree. The best guy on my staff has a high school GED. 

It was talent that mattered.

Nowadays, thanks to HR, getting into IT needs all the useless credentials that other fields require.


----------



## tech-novelist

Buddy400 said:


> But you and I got into programming before HR took control.
> 
> In the good old days it wasn't unusual to be a highly paid programmer and not even have a degree. The best guy on my staff has a high school GED.
> 
> It was talent that mattered.
> 
> Nowadays, thanks to HR, getting into IT needs all the useless credentials that other fields require.


Unless you are a rogue programmer working on your own project, or have a long enough resume that no one cares what your degree was in (or if you had one). The latter of course is not available to beginners though...


----------



## Buddy400

tech-novelist said:


> Unless you are a rogue programmer working on your own project, or have a long enough resume that no one cares what your degree was in (or if you had one). *The latter of course is not available to beginners though.*..


The bolded is the problem.

I actually have a Math/Computer science degree but I never learned anything useful in school that could be applied in the real world.

That was the early 80's though, I presume schools have gotten better since.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I was watching a talk show the other day, and there was a lady who had experienced an illness, and now that she pulled through, she said that she no longer worried about things that she once did. She is stopping to smell the roses. The host asked what she worried about now and she replied something like, "I don't worry about anything."
> 
> My brother made the comment how that he and i are already low worriers and are smelling the roses, and we didn't have to have a catastrophic experience in life to get that way. I often wonder why others can't see it until a life altering experience happens. It's like the old saying, "Nobody ever said on his death bed, gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office."


 I THINK a little different over these.. Because I DO worry what may come, realizing none of us are immune .... I am more apt to be thankful for what is NOW or find that Joy in the little things... 

What you say reminds me of this song .. Live Like You Were Dying


----------



## tech-novelist

Buddy400 said:


> The bolded is the problem.
> 
> I actually have a Math/Computer science degree but I never learned anything useful in school that could be applied in the real world.
> 
> That was the early 80's though, I presume schools have gotten better since.


I doubt it. Although I have never taken a CS course, I have taught CS courses at university level (in the mid-to-late 90's). The students were totally ignorant of very important issues in programming (like the hazards of pointers in C++). When I told the acting department head that I thought it would be a good idea for them to understand something about practical issues in programming, he said that would not be a good idea. 

Why not? Because the purpose of CS courses is to prepare people for graduate school in CS so that they could become CS teachers.


----------



## aine

southbound said:


> That's probably the reason we all have such different approaches to subjects here on TAM; we are describing things from our environment, but we are not aware of other member's everyday environment, but we subconsciously assume it is like our own.
> 
> *I find it unusual that a woman makes a point to list intelligence as a quality she wants. * I've even seen profiles where women describe themselves as super intelligent. What is a guy supposed to do with that information? Should he come prepared to discuss the theory of relativity and the effect of stars on climate?
> 
> That is what I imagine when I read it; however, maybe these women live in an area with a lot of guys who make fart noises with their hands on first dates and only bath once a month. So, maybe those women are just trying to signal to those guys that they are not interested. Who knows.


I do not see why this is unusual at all. I have dated men who can only have a conversation about football or cars or farm animals! I want a man (and my H fits the bill) who can talk about politics, business, nature, geography, culture, not afraid to visit museums, child rearing, etc. A man who likes to read, continues to grow mentally. What is wrong with that? 
Though research does show that men are intimidated by smart women, esp women who are smarter than them, yet want a smart woman for a mate. 

Intelligence Is Sexy, But Only In Theory: Male Ego Too Intimidated By Smart Women To Date Them, Says Study


----------



## tech-novelist

aine said:


> I do not see why this is unusual at all. I have dated men who can only have a conversation about football or cars or farm animals! I want a man (and my H fits the bill) who can talk about politics, business, nature, geography, culture, not afraid to visit museums, child rearing, etc. A man who likes to read, continues to grow mentally. What is wrong with that?
> Though research does show that men are intimidated by smart women, esp women who are smarter than them, yet want a smart woman for a mate.
> 
> Intelligence Is Sexy, But Only In Theory: Male Ego Too Intimidated By Smart Women To Date Them, Says Study


That's an interesting theory.

However, since I've never met a woman smarter than I am, it is only theoretical as far as I'm concerned.

(Note: I'm not claiming there aren't any women smarter than I am, just that I've never met one.)


----------



## SimplyAmorous

aine said:


> I do not see why this is unusual at all. I have dated men who can only have a conversation about football or cars or farm animals! I want a man (and my H fits the bill) who can talk about politics, business, nature, geography, culture, not afraid to visit museums, child rearing, etc. *A man who likes to read, continues to grow mentally. What is wrong with that? *
> Though research does show that men are intimidated by smart women, esp women who are smarter than them, yet want a smart woman for a mate.
> 
> Intelligence Is Sexy, But Only In Theory: Male Ego Too Intimidated By Smart Women To Date Them, Says Study


My husband has never been a reader..if you hand him a book, he's going to be falling asleep ... he reads what he's required to read (like for work, etc.. but that's it)...

I love love love to read... he wasn't a brain in school either.. just an average student... (this is true of me also).... 

But he's a man of common sense, integrity, work ethic, a good father.... he shows interest in what I am interested in... he's way smarter than me in Math...he's an excellent Handy man & mechanics come easy to him ... this is enough for me... 

I wouldn't want to be with a man so intelligent and world knowledgeable he found me lacking in the intelligent department.. that wouldn't be any good either...


----------



## aine

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband has never been a reader..if you hand him a book, he's going to be falling asleep ... he reads what he's required to read (like for work, etc.. but that's it)...
> 
> I love love love to read... he wasn't a brain in school either.. just an average student... (this is true of me also)....
> 
> But he's a man of common sense, integrity, work ethic, a good father.... he shows interest in what I am interested in... he's way smarter than me in Math...he's an excellent Handy man & mechanics come easy to him ... this is enough for me...
> 
> I wouldn't want to be with a man so intelligent and world knowledgeable he found me lacking in the intelligent department.. that wouldn't be any good either...


I understand your view point but what makes you think a man cannot be intelligent and have good work ethic, be sincere, kind, etc. Why does it have to be one or the other? There are many types of intelligence, very rarely will a person have all of them (musical, visual, logical,verbal, naturalistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, spiritual). The bottom line is, to each his own. 

Your H displays, logic, kinesthetic, intrapersonal, interpersonal intelligences  based on what you write.


----------



## jld

aine said:


> I do not see why this is unusual at all. I have dated men who can only have a conversation about football or cars or farm animals! I want a man (and my H fits the bill) who can talk about politics, business, nature, geography, culture, not afraid to visit museums, child rearing, etc. A man who likes to read, continues to grow mentally. What is wrong with that?
> Though research does show that men are intimidated by smart women, esp women who are smarter than them, yet want a smart woman for a mate.
> 
> Intelligence Is Sexy, But Only In Theory: Male Ego Too Intimidated By Smart Women To Date Them, Says Study


_Altogether, the studies concluded that for some men, superior intelligence is only an attractive trait in theory. When men actually meet women who are smarter than them, this once attractive trait instead becomes a turnoff. *According to the researchers, the mere presence of a more intelligent woman was enough to make the men feel threatened, and "feelings of diminished masculinity accounted for men’s decreased attraction toward women who outperformed them in the live interaction context."*_

Sounds accurate to me.

Honestly, @aine, that study could make for a great thread.


----------



## jld

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband has never been a reader..if you hand him a book, he's going to be falling asleep ... he reads what he's required to read (like for work, etc.. but that's it)...
> 
> I love love love to read... he wasn't a brain in school either.. just an average student... (this is true of me also)....
> 
> But he's a man of common sense, integrity, work ethic, a good father.... he shows interest in what I am interested in... he's way smarter than me in Math...he's an excellent Handy man & mechanics come easy to him ... this is enough for me...
> 
> I wouldn't want to be with a man so intelligent and world knowledgeable he found me lacking in the intelligent department.. that wouldn't be any good either...


You want to be with a man you are compatible with. And you are.


----------



## EllisRedding

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can honestly say I have never been met with this attitude .. not even once from my husband in all our years together...
> 
> I surely understand there are men who DO this.. and it would be awful to be on the receiving end..
> 
> Mine has always uplifted/ praised my contribution saying he'd be lost without me.. . even though at times his income was 95% and mine was a measly 5% ...
> 
> I very much appreciate him for being this sort of man..


I have always made it clear to my W that the money I bring home is OUR money and not my money (she is a SAHM now, but even when she was working I made substantially more than her except for a short period). I never understood the rationale of holding money over your spouse


----------



## EllisRedding

aine said:


> I understand your view point but what makes you think a man cannot be intelligent and have good work ethic, be sincere, kind, etc. Why does it have to be one or the other? There are many types of intelligence, very rarely will a person have all of them (musical, visual, logical,verbal, naturalistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, spiritual). The bottom line is, to each his own.
> 
> Your H displays, logic, kinesthetic, intrapersonal, interpersonal intelligences  based on what you write.


I think SA was just taking your post to be what defines an intelligent man. I think we can agree that for you reading, museums, etc.. define what you want in an intelligent man, but for the next person they can have completely different definitions of intelligence. There is no one set list that defines an intelligent man or woman.

My W constantly comments about how smart I am, I think she just confuses this with me being a smart ass lol.


----------



## southbound

aine said:


> I do not see why this is unusual at all. I have dated men who can only have a conversation about football or cars or farm animals! I want a man (and my H fits the bill) who can talk about politics, business, nature, geography, culture, not afraid to visit museums, child rearing, etc. A man who likes to read, continues to grow mentally. What is wrong with that?
> Though research does show that men are intimidated by smart women, esp women who are smarter than them, yet want a smart woman for a mate.
> 
> Intelligence Is Sexy, But Only In Theory: Male Ego Too Intimidated By Smart Women To Date Them, Says Study


There's nothing wrong with it if that's what you want. I have a white collar job, but playing the intellectual bores the soup out of me on my own time. If I go on a date and the woman wants to talk about politics, business, and geography in a serious manner, I'm going to be bored silly. 

I would want a woman who can handle the everyday ins and outs of life and be a team in that manner. For example, if a new room is being built on the house, she can handle talking to the construction worker and answer any questions he might have, but I don't really care what she knows about politics and geography.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

aine said:


> I understand your view point *but what makes you think a man cannot be intelligent and have good work ethic, be sincere, kind, etc*. Why does it have to be one or the other? There are many types of intelligence, very rarely will a person have all of them (musical, visual, logical,verbal, naturalistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, spiritual). The bottom line is, to each his own.
> 
> Your H displays, logic, kinesthetic, intrapersonal, interpersonal intelligences  based on what you write.


 *But I don't think that*..there are surely people who possess it ALL..there are some Brains like this I can't help but notice in our kid's high school... good looking, excels at sports... high honor... decent person.. not a Jerk.....

Sometimes I think of people like this.. (have even said it- it's not to down them.. but obviously they have it ALL going on).. I've told them they make me sick...especially if they are "hot" too...

It's like ..."can't the goods be spread around a little bit "...How freaking blessed are they with multiple natural talents, born with good looks , high intelligence .... Now don't get me wrong.... If they are a kind hearted good person to boot.. I think it's wonderful, phenomenal even!! .. they are surely the whole package!!... 

Next thought......someone who has it ALL - can have any pick of a woman he wants...he's the King of the Hill...and guess what.. 

It'd never be someone like Me... so No.. I'd never have my sights this high on a man .. just being realistic..I know where I belong... If I don't have his measure of intelligence..I'm simply not in his class.. same for measure of success, looks also....


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## SimplyAmorous

Speaking of intelligence ...If I recall correctly.. I was ranked 52 out of maybe 130 students when I graduated.. I know it was in the lower 50's... I didn't even take difficult classes.. as I had no desire to go to college.. surely nothing to brag about.. I asked my husband where he was - he answers probably in the 100's... he has no idea.. 

I feel we have adequate emotional intelligence ... but not Book smarts / traveling world experience.. that sort of thing.. Yes we're compatible.. 

We've done our share of visiting museums over the years...but lets say that Game Show "Jeopardy" was on...we'd suck so bad...wouldn't even want to go there...

How our 2nd son was ranked 19 and our 3rd son a year younger ...ranked 17... not sure how that happened ... we feel very proud they have done so much better over us...both planning on "Engineering" degrees...


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## SimplyAmorous

EllisRedding said:


> I have always made it clear to my W that the money I bring home is OUR money and not my money (she is a SAHM now, but even when she was working I made substantially more than her except for a short period). I never understood the rationale of holding money over your spouse


If the one not working was "frivolous" with it, running up substantial credit bills (paying wasteful amounts of interest) ....I can easily see it becoming an issue.. I sympathize with the breadwinner if he / she is more the Saver, in those situations. If that was me.. I'd separate the money to get a rein on them.. 

But if both are on the same page.. managing the money respectively....keeping each other informed / in agreement... it does work very nicely.. that's us too.

I pretty much guard husband's money like a bull dog, more so back in the day when our income was lower. I've eased up some over the years.


----------



## EllisRedding

SimplyAmorous said:


> If the one not working was "frivolous" with it, running up substantial credit bills (paying wasteful amounts of interest) ....I can easily see it becoming an issue.. I sympathize with the breadwinner if he / she is more the Saver, in those situations. If that was me.. I'd separate the money to get a rein on them..
> 
> But if both are on the same page.. managing the money respectively....keeping each other informed / in agreement... it does work very nicely.. that's us too.
> 
> I pretty much guard husband's money like a bull dog, more so back in the day when our income was lower. I've eased up some over the years.


Exactly, the assumption being both people are responsible with money, they have a game plan/budget that they adhere to. What I did for my W since I handle all the money (she doesn't even really have a clue how much I make or how much we have available to spend), we have several projects we want to get done. I set up an excel file for her with the exact amount we have to available to spend. She is free to spend as she sees fit on these projects as long as she stays within the budget. This has made things much better for her vs before trying t o guess what she could/couldn't spend on.


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## SimplyAmorous

She doesn't even know HOW MUCH YOU MAKE @EllisReading or how much you have saved ? I can't image that ....I need to have such involvement ...or I wouldn't like it one bit...

I've spoken on this ... probably not the norm in the Traditional set up.. I handle pretty much every dime, he really doesn't care to mess with it...saves him the hassle.. 

He had to write a check out to the DMV the other day (he's in the process of getting a CDL licence)...he says to me afterwards - he hopes he wrote the check correctly ....can you imagine!...he hasn't written one in who knows how many years. 

I've never written up a budget .... just try to keep costs at the lowest mark...in our area.. we can take advantage of different Electric suppliers - I shop for the lowest kwh rates...try to order oil when it's the lowest.. (I have more time to make all these phone calls & research this stuff)... got "Magic Jack" for our home phone... Can't beat $35 a year.. though it does have it's issues.. cutting us off after a time or random static.. I do a little swearing on occasion. 

With my income now.. I am thinking of upping his 401K contributions to 50% - for a time anyway.... it sounds the Dow recovered after this Brexit thing , so I've heard.. 

I do let him know what I'm doing though.. always..


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## southbound

aine said:


> There are many types of intelligence, very rarely will a person have all of them (musical, visual, logical,verbal, naturalistic, interpersonal, intrapersonal, kinesthetic, spiritual). The bottom line is, to each his own.
> 
> Your H displays, logic, kinesthetic, intrapersonal, interpersonal intelligences  based on what you write.


I agree that there are many types of intelligence. I guess that's why i find it odd that a person would go to the trouble of listing "intelligence" as an attractive feature. I guess I just assume that's a given; unless someone has a mental disability, everybody is going to fall in there somewhere. 

I saw one profile where a lady described herself as "super intelligent."
What the heck does that mean? Does it mean she can speak 4 languages, decipher ancient codes with ease, and escape from any prison known to man, or does it just mean she made good grades in school, has a degree, and she's basically like everybody else?


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## EllisRedding

SimplyAmorous said:


> She doesn't even know HOW MUCH YOU MAKE @EllisReading or how much you have saved ? I can't image that ....I need to have such involvement ...or I wouldn't like it one bit...
> .


Pretty much neither. I probably have more saved then she realizes. As far as how much I make I have been fortunate with my career so this isn't something she has needed to worry about up to this point TBH. She has an open checkbook when it comes to day to day spending (whether for herself, the kids, or the house). When it comes to bigger ticket items then we will discuss and I can let her where we stand. 

It also gets a little tricky for me since I don't get taxes withheld from my paycheck (I pay estimated taxes quarterly), so you can't just go by the balance you see in the checking account since part of that is already accounted for.


----------



## aine

EllisRedding said:


> I have always made it clear to my W that the money I bring home is OUR money and not my money (she is a SAHM now, but even when she was working I made substantially more than her except for a short period). I never understood the rationale of holding money over your spouse


On a side note, a few years ago when I wasn't working my H complained about how everything was on his head and it was so much pressure. I was a SAHM. Now I am working, I don't ask for money, I finance my own overseas trips, car, etc. 
Just the other day he told me he didn't like how I didn't really need him especially on that front :surprise::surprise: WTF! he complained in the past about all the pressure and burden on him, then when I do something about it, suddenly I'm acting too independent. 

I called him out on it and how he used to complain I wasn't contributing anything and he said that I always had his money anyhow but now I act like I don't need him. I just told him I need him for other things, he said 'yah sure.'

I honestly don't understand, my H's ego seems so fragile. I understand he wants to be appreciated, but it would be nice if he acknowledged the fact that I am working towards more qualifications, starting at the bottom of the ladder in a competitive industry and trying my best for him not to carry the burden alone. *sigh*

I cannot win!


----------



## ricky15100

Kalpnisis said:


> It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa. So I am curious, say you met or are with a woman who is otherwise nice, pretty, funny etc. but they had some job working as say a cashier at McDonald's or some equally low-level job; something you'd expect a high schooler to have and she had no ambitions to ever get anything better, would that matter to you?


Unless its pornstar or hooker then no

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding

aine said:


> On a side note, a few years ago when I wasn't working my H complained about how everything was on his head and it was so much pressure. I was a SAHM. Now I am working, I don't ask for money, I finance my own overseas trips, car, etc.
> Just the other day he told me he didn't like how I didn't really need him especially on that front :surprise::surprise: WTF! he complained in the past about all the pressure and burden on him, then when I do something about it, suddenly I'm acting too independent.
> 
> I called him out on it and how he used to complain I wasn't contributing anything and he said that I always had his money anyhow but now I act like I don't need him. I just told him I need him for other things, he said 'yah sure.'
> 
> I honestly don't understand, my H's ego seems so fragile. I understand he wants to be appreciated, but it would be nice if he acknowledged the fact that I am working towards more qualifications, starting at the bottom of the ladder in a competitive industry and trying my best for him not to carry the burden alone. *sigh*
> 
> I cannot win!


Yeah, that would be a headscratcher. I have no issues being the "breadwinner", pressure and all. My W and I have roles both as a couple and as parents, and we are both just going with the roles that best suit us and our family.


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## sapientia

Mommywhatohnothing said:


> Also it needs to be remembered that intelligence doesn't mean someone is going to have a high paying job. *Some very intelligent people work for next to nothing in the non profit sector. *Generally because they care about making a difference and having a positive impact on society. I'm in social work, my employer is a non profit job placement agency for people on disability. My position as the job training coordinator requires a masters degree. I work 60+ hours a week and make $23,000 a year and I get no benefits. I wouldn't trade my job for anything because I love knowing that I'm helping people to improve their lives. When my divorce is final, I'll be looking to start dating men who care about helping others and making the world a better place, rather than another man like my STBX who only cares about money and feeding his ego.


I agree with this statement I bolded^ except all the folks I know doing this made sure they were first in a financial secure position before doing so. There is a certain practicality to life and 60+ hours a week making $23,000 a year isn't enough to support yourself much less a family. Plus, without benefits, if you get sick or injured, you will rely on the rest society to pay your way. Especially the ones who ARE paying high taxes in those high earning jobs you seem to despite...

I think your work sounds admirable, but you sound on the edge of martyrdom and over proud of a situation I would argue is inherently unstable. I would suggest you apply yourself to getting a better paying job, one that doesn't require 60+ hours a week, and you can spend your leisure time continuing to volunteer for the causes you care about.


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## sapientia

tech-novelist said:


> That's an interesting theory.
> 
> However, since* I've never met a woman smarter than I am, it is only theoretical as far as I'm concerned.*
> 
> (Note: I'm not claiming there aren't any women smarter than I am, just that I've never met one.)


That's funny, I have the exact same opinion of men. :grin2:

You need to get out more. Spend some time in a place like Boston or London.


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## john117

Begin again said:


> Let's separate job from income from class. Here's my view:
> 
> If you make six figures but are a plumber, I probably won't be interested in you because I wouldn't want to date someone blue collar. Just my preference (please don't spear me!)
> 
> So, what if a man has an advanced degree but bad $ prospects? Wouldn't date him, either. (Just had that, in fact. The guy was a VP and earned over $150k a year, but he was also separated, paid 2/3 of his income to his wife, had one kid in college and two more would be in the next few years and was already $40k in debt. So... It would be probably a decade before this guy would be in the black again and while that didn't impact my decision to date him initially, I definitely knew it would impact my decision to let anything get serious.
> 
> Lastly, what if the guy made good money and had a good degree but was low class? Wouldnt date him, either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Looks can be deceiving.

I have a triple of "ummm what was he thinking" degrees, all in psychology. I make awesome money helping design complex electronic products. Do I look like six figures? Nope. Do I act like six figures? Occasionally. I'm more John the Plumber than John the PhD team leader.

I like pizza, beer, Xbox and Angry Birds, hanging out with my interns and team members, cycling, and the like. 

Deeper examination reveals that my six figures will dwindle in a year once my younger daughter enters medical school (pray for high MCAT scores please  ). And I will likely be helping my older daughter with her PhD funding as well in the same timeframe. So your buddy above and I could well be fighting at the local dumpster diving spots...


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## sapientia

Money provides a certain freedom, but it doesn't equate with "class". Class is not about how one carries oneself or conducts oneself at table. There are many wealthy people who do these things and are not nice people. We've met many fakers and facades abound. Mostly because they aren't comfortable in whatever situation they find themselves in, so the facade is used to create a barrier to keep themselves from engaging with whatever they are trying to escape, real or imagined. Graciousness, particularly in challenging situations, is closer to the mark, IMO.

I've met some incredibly decent people who don't have a lot of money. They do have a lot of heart, and grace.


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## southbound

Begin again said:


> This is all well and good, but if both people make $25k/yr, you'll never be able to save and retire... Especially if you have kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I forget sometimes that the cost of living is not the same everywhere; that's why i scratch my head at some of these figures and comments that I see.

Apparently, the cost of living is much cheaper where I live. A couple could get by quite nicely on a salary of $50k/yr here. Their life might not be showered in gold dust, but that's avery comfortable living where I'm from.

The same with teachers. A teacher's salary is considered a good living where I'm from. My brother works for the post office, and he gets a laugh at how people act like a mailman is scraping the bottom of the barrel in some parts of the country. Around here, it's considered a really good job.


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## EllisRedding

southbound said:


> I forget sometimes that the cost of living is not the same everywhere; that's why i scratch my head at some of these figures and comments that I see.
> 
> Apparently, the cost of living is much cheaper where I live. A couple could get by quite nicely on a salary of $50k/yr here. Their life might not be showered in gold dust, but that's avery comfortable living where I'm from.
> 
> The same with teachers. A teacher's salary is considered a good living where I'm from. My brother works for the post office, and he gets a laugh at how people act like a mailman is scraping the bottom of the barrel in some parts of the country. Around here, it's considered a really good job.


The difference in cost of living is crazy. Where I live, we are towards the top of the list in terms of cost of living. A teacher here can easily make $100k but in many cases that is not enough for a comfortable living


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## Begin again

southbound said:


> I forget sometimes that the cost of living is not the same everywhere; that's why i scratch my head at some of these figures and comments that I see.
> 
> Apparently, the cost of living is much cheaper where I live. A couple could get by quite nicely on a salary of $50k/yr here. Their life might not be showered in gold dust, but that's avery comfortable living where I'm from.
> 
> The same with teachers. A teacher's salary is considered a good living where I'm from. My brother works for the post office, and he gets a laugh at how people act like a mailman is scraping the bottom of the barrel in some parts of the country. Around here, it's considered a really good job.


Yeah, I don't know anyone who makes 50k a year except for teachers, and they are pretty much being robbed. I work in corporate America and the lowest pay for an entry level employee is almost 50k.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Begin again said:


> Yeah, I don't know anyone who makes 50k a year except for teachers, and they are pretty much being robbed. I work in corporate America and the lowest pay for an entry level employee is almost 50k. I made more than that 20 years ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Yeah, I don't know anyone who makes 50k a year except for teachers, and they are pretty much being robbed. I work in corporate America and the lowest pay for an entry level employee is almost 50k. I made more than that 20 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Something odd is happening. I can't edit my posts, but I can quote them in a new one. Sorry for the repeated posts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## southbound

EllisRedding said:


> The difference in cost of living is crazy. Where I live, we are towards the top of the list in terms of cost of living. A teacher here can easily make $100k but in many cases that is not enough for a comfortable living


Wow. An experienced teacher here with a Rank I probably makes around $58,000, but that is a good living here. That would be $116,000 for a married couple that were both teachers; nobody would have to worry about the bills here with that salary.


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## EllisRedding

southbound said:


> Wow. An experienced teacher here with a Rank I probably makes around $58,000, but that is a good living here. That would be $116,000 for a married couple that were both teachers; nobody would have to worry about the bills here with that salary.


Part of the irony, one item that makes cost of living so expensive is property taxes (it is not uncommon to pay 10-15k or more a year). A good 80%+ of our property taxes comes from the schools, which most of their costs are for salary and pension ... Teachers get paid more to help with cost of living, yet cost of living is high because teachers get paid more lol.


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I agree that there are many types of intelligence. I guess that's why i find it odd that a person would go to the trouble of listing "intelligence" as an attractive feature. I guess I just assume that's a given; unless someone has a mental disability, everybody is going to fall in there somewhere.
> 
> I saw one profile where a lady described herself as "super intelligent."
> What the heck does that mean? Does it mean she can speak 4 languages, decipher ancient codes with ease, and escape from any prison known to man, or does it just mean she made good grades in school, has a degree, and she's basically like everybody else?


 I think like you Southbound.. just comes off "conceited" to me...I've always gravitated to the more humble soul... 

Turning this around....I've been watching the Bachelorette... (as always). Rarely does the ones I would choose win.. it's like a given... we laugh about it...

As I always go for the Nice Guy.. I'm rooting for the underdog James.. he's a singer / song writer, on the romantic side...










...over the Football star, the competitive swimmer.. .that Alex is utterly obnoxious to me!!... he thinks he is the Alpha dog there...he keeps putting James down, like only a man like him deserves a woman like that... everything about him screams "arrogant" & conceited..


----------



## aine

sapientia said:


> I agree with this statement I bolded^ except all the folks I know doing this made sure they were first in a financial secure position before doing so. There is a certain practicality to life and 60+ hours a week making $23,000 a year isn't enough to support yourself much less a family. Plus, without benefits, if you get sick or injured, you will rely on the rest society to pay your way. Especially the ones who ARE paying high taxes in those high earning jobs you seem to despite...
> 
> I think your work sounds admirable, but you sound on the edge of martyrdom and over proud of a situation I would argue is inherently unstable. I would suggest you apply yourself to getting a better paying job, one that doesn't require 60+ hours a week, and you can spend your leisure time continuing to volunteer for the causes you care about.


Agree with you Sapientia on this. If You have kids, how much sacrifices have they made with your 60 hour work week helping others? Just wondering.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I forget sometimes that the cost of living is not the same everywhere; that's why i scratch my head at some of these figures and comments that I see.
> 
> *Apparently, the cost of living is much cheaper where I live. A couple could get by quite nicely on a salary of $50k/yr here. Their life might not be showered in gold dust, but that's avery comfortable living where I'm from.
> *
> The same with teachers. A teacher's salary is considered a good living where I'm from. My brother works for the post office, and he gets a laugh at how people act like a mailman is scraping the bottom of the barrel in some parts of the country. Around here, it's considered a really good job.


Same here Southbound.. the Job my husband has many would kill for...one of the better blue collar jobs in our area... for many yrs he teetered around that $50,000 mark..he could have made a lot more being an Engineer but we did very well for our family where he was - with his coming home every night.. the extra money wasn't worth it to us...

A teachers salary here is considered Good too...we have a friend who's worked for the Post office since his 20's. . those are coveted jobs in our area also, difficult to get in.. though it seems the Post office is dying a slow death anymore. 

"Small town living" is obviously very different than what happens in a larger city.. one that is booming I guess.. People should not assume that us Lower income folks can't make it though.. people CAN in different areas of the country....this is why when you look on those "Class" calculators..... it asks where you live.. 

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator  

Where we live... even with a family of 7.. we are still considered Middle Class.


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## SimplyAmorous

EllisRedding said:


> Part of the irony, one item that makes cost of living so expensive is property taxes (it is not uncommon to pay 10-15k or more a year). A good 80%+ of our property taxes comes from the schools, which most of their costs are for salary and pension ... Teachers get paid more to help with cost of living, yet cost of living is high because teachers get paid more lol.


I just wrote out our school taxes this am.. I think you'd be sick how low they are.. 3 sections...

*1.* School Real Estate Tax / Homestead tax (mentions credit - see below)... 16.56000 mills .... *$1,222.01*

*2*. School Real Estate tax -this for separate piece of property we own with no structure on it....*$180.14*

*3.* School per Capital Tax rate 5.00000 .... *$9.80* 

They offer discount rates if you pay in the 1st month or so.. (those are discounted figures)...

Says on the House/ Property taxes...


> Bill includes a tax reduction for your homestead and/ or Farmstead property ... As an eligible Homestead / Farmstead property owner, you have received tax relief through a homestead/ Farmstead exclusion which has been provided under the (state) Taxpayer Relief Act, a law passed by the (State) General Assembly designed to reduce your property taxes.


 I see the exclusion was for $11,201 so they have our house / property on this parcel of land being estimated at $86,500... but we only pay taxes on $75,299 (that is with a nice chunk of land too)

We paid $100,000 for our house/ property 18 yrs ago ... from what I have seen in our area... it seems most houses are under valued -for taxes.. not that we are complaining.. It's a struggling area..


----------



## EllisRedding

SimplyAmorous said:


> I just wrote out our school taxes this am.. I think you'd be sick how low they are.. 3 sections...
> 
> *1.* School Real Estate Tax / Homestead tax (mentions credit - see below)... 16.56000 mills .... *$1,222.01*
> 
> *2*. School Real Estate tax -this for separate piece of property we own with no structure on it....*$180.14*
> 
> *3.* School per Capital Tax rate 5.00000 .... *$9.80*
> 
> They offer discount rates if you pay in the 1st month or so.. (those are discounted figures)...
> 
> Says on the House/ Property taxes...
> 
> I see the exclusion was for $11,201 so they have our house / property on this parcel of land being estimated at $86,500... but we only pay taxes on $75,299 (that is with a nice chunk of land too)
> 
> We paid $100,000 for our house/ property 18 yrs ago ... from what I have seen in our area... it seems most houses are under valued -for taxes.. not that we are complaining.. It's a struggling area..


That actually reminds me of taxes where my wife grew up which were very low as well. The one difference b/w where she grew up and where we live now, the public schools for her were horrible. Simply put, it was in your best interest to send your kids to private/catholic schools. On the other hand, school taxes are extremely high here, but we have very good public schools (so you wouldn't have that private school expense).

The negative of course, in my W's situation, once you are done sending your kids to school you no longer have to pay. Here, you are paying the schools whether you have children going or not. That is where you get a lot of fighting when it comes time to vote for the school budget b/c the older/retired residents will vote down any sort of proposed budget increase.

Funny enough, we moved into our current house a little over a year ago. Right after we moved in the town reassessed our house up. Now logically, you would think they would assess to what we bought the house for (previously the house was assessed for less). Nope, they decided to assess us way over what we just paid  We ended up going to the town and fighting it, and they agreed that basically they had no justification for the large jump. They ended up bringing us back down, it nearly cost me over $2k a year on my property taxes until I got it fixed


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## Steve1000

Kalpnisis said:


> It has always seemed to me that it generally matters far more to a woman what kind of job/career a woman has than vice versa.


Regarding employment, the only thing that was important to me was that my wife doesn't have to travel often or often work on weekends or constantly has to attend social functions at night.


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## DustyDog

It doesn't even matter to me whether she has a job or not. Not even when I was young and financially struggling. 

I think too many people identify with their jobs...doesn't matter to me. 

What I care about is her emotional stability, her ability and willingness to engage with me, form selective interdependencies, build experiences together and so on.


----------



## Steve1000

SimplyAmorous said:


> "Small town living" is obviously very different than what happens in a larger city.. one that is booming I guess.. People should not assume that us Lower income folks can't make it though.. people CAN in different areas of the country....this is why when you look on those "Class" calculators..... it asks where you live..
> .


Case in point: Ten years ago, I bought a new 3-bed, 3-bathroom house with a two car garage built on two lots for $164,000. I live in a city with a metro population of 1 million. The same year, a friend in Los Angeles bought a 30-year old 2-bed, 1 1/2 bath condo for $500,000 not too far from UCLA. 

Location and money management matter just as much as gross salary.


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## SimplyAmorous

Steve1000 said:


> *Case in point: Ten years ago, I bought a new 3-bed, 3-bathroom house with a two car garage built on two lots for $164,000.* I live in a city with a metro population of 1 million. The same year, a friend in Los Angeles bought a 30-year old 2-bed, 1 1/2 bath condo for $500,000 not too far from UCLA.
> 
> *Location and money management matter just as much as gross salary*.


 Yes it does... then compare us...our house / property has 50 acres, our garage is 3 stall... our house has 4 bedrooms.... originally built back in 1901.. in 1989... it was updated.. a new part of a basement added, large dining room & Bedroom with cathedral ceiling on the 2nd floor..(We got a steal deal when we bought our house though. .it was a relative selling)

We live near the Amish...a couple could easily buy a decent house in a nearby city for $45,000 -$70,000 with a lot, 2-3 lots. Real estate is pretty reasonable in our area.... 

The nearest BIG city, recognizable name is an hour's drive away... ..


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## SimplyAmorous

EllisRedding said:


> That actually reminds me of taxes where my wife grew up which were very low as well. The one difference b/w where she grew up and where we live now, the public schools for her were horrible. Simply put, it was in your best interest to send your kids to private/catholic schools. On the other hand, school taxes are extremely high here, but we have very good public schools (so you wouldn't have that private school expense).


 When we were young & house shopping.. *this WAS* *the issue*.... In our county.. there are 2 school districts we'd NEVER buy a house in... rough neighborhood kids.. we wanted no part of that atmosphere for ours.. so I told every realtor.. those 2 districts are out... 

But in this same county... 4 of these schools were good enough for us.. Our kids have enjoyed their schooling experience...Academically speaking I'm sure their high school is purely "average".. nothing to rave about...but we're average too... I have nothing bad to say ... they have loved a # of teachers, been involved in a # of activities, made some great friends along the way... a few bad apples here & there...but that is to be expected anywhere ....



> The negative of course, in my W's situation, once you are done sending your kids to school you no longer have to pay. Here, you are paying the schools whether you have children going or not. That is where you get a lot of fighting when it comes time to vote for the school budget b/c the older/retired residents will vote down any sort of proposed budget increase.


 Isn't it like this everywhere.. it's an additional cost for private... that would never be affordable to us.. so yeah.. buying a house in an acceptable school district was an absolute MUST. I know a few families who do the home schooling or cyber schooling ....this being another option...



> Funny enough, we moved into our current house a little over a year ago. Right after we moved in the town reassessed our house up. Now logically, you would think they would assess to what we bought the house for (previously the house was assessed for less). Nope, they decided to assess us way over what we just paid  We ended up going to the town and fighting it, and they agreed that basically they had no justification for the large jump. They ended up bringing us back down, it nearly cost me over $2k a year on my property taxes until I got it fixed


 It's worth the fight... I've done this too... during a reassessment.. I prepared papers with photographs, details, comparing other properties... I wanted to make sure they didn't over assess our land in the back.... as we have 50 ft "highwalls" -left from Mining years ago spanning some of the back property.. it's not like our land is ideal to sell -for new property development.. in the next year, we are supposed to be getting a "Reclamation" done... this is all paid for by coal companies who left properties in a mess back in the 60's.. 

Now what THAT will do to our property taxes.. hmmmm..they will end up going Up for sure.. but maybe it won't be till another assessment.. I don't know how that works.


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## southbound

EllisRedding said:


> Part of the irony, one item that makes cost of living so expensive is property taxes (it is not uncommon to pay 10-15k or more a year). A good 80%+ of our property taxes comes from the schools, which most of their costs are for salary and pension ... Teachers get paid more to help with cost of living, yet cost of living is high because teachers get paid more lol.


I can't even begin to wrap my mind around that kind of property tax. I own an old farm house and 134 acres, and my property tax is around $1,300 a year. 




DustyDog said:


> It doesn't even matter to me whether she has a job or not. Not even when I was young and financially struggling.
> 
> I think too many people identify with their jobs...doesn't matter to me.
> 
> What I care about is her emotional stability, her ability and willingness to engage with me, form selective interdependencies, build experiences together and so on.


Same here. I never thought that my job defined me, but it seems that many feel that way about themselves. It's part of me, but it's not who I am. I consider the best indicator of who i am is what I do on my own time and my character. 

I read somewhere that the reason some people don't want to retire is because their life centers around their career. It's what they spend all their time doing, and it's a big social thing for them. Not me.


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I can't even begin to wrap my mind around that kind of property tax. I own an old farm house and 134 acres, *and my property tax is around $1,300 a year*.


 Da** Southbound..I thought we had it cheap !! ..I am pretty sure our neighbors with 100 + acres are paying a lot more than you are ...


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## MrsHolland

What are property taxes for? We pay about $2K/per yr Council rates to cover rubbish collection, facilities such as Libraries etc. Public schools are largely covered by State and Federal Govt. with a small contribution by the user. Private schools are also partly funded by Govt. but the user pays a fee of between $20 - $30K per year.


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## Begin again

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes it does... then compare us...our house / property has 50 acres, our garage is 3 stall... our house has 4 bedrooms.... originally built back in 1901.. in 1989... it was updated.. a new part of a basement added, large dining room & Bedroom with cathedral ceiling on the 2nd floor..(We got a steal deal when we bought our house though. .it was a relative selling)
> 
> We live near the Amish...a couple could easily buy a decent house in a nearby city for $45,000 -$70,000 with a lot, 2-3 lots. Real estate is pretty reasonable in our area....
> 
> The nearest BIG city, recognizable name is an hour's drive away... ..


Can't buy an acre of land for $70k where I live. Forget the house.

I'm hoping to move out of my apartment soon and buy a 3 bedroom townhouse. I make nearly six figures and am crunching the numbers to see if I can afford it! It's gonna be tight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

SimplyAmorous said:


> Da** Southbound..I thought we had it cheap !! ..I am pretty sure our neighbors with 100 + acres are paying a lot more than you are ...


That is very cheap. Not sure how they can be that cheap unless land is $250 an acre or something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia

aine said:


> Agree with you Sapientia on this. If You have kids, how much sacrifices have they made with your 60 hour work week helping others? Just wondering.


Are you asking me this, or the other poster?

If me, my son is older now with his own interests, so my 50-60 hour weeks -- which isn't every week -- don't impact our home so much now. From the time he was young up to this day, I get up very early and work before he heads off to school and we try to make sure that we are home having dinner together at least 2-3 times a week. I would also work after he went to bed. Ours was never a home for watching tv after dinner. We try to avoid work on weekends except the odd call or emails. If we have dinners or events, my son can often come with us and he finds meeting people interesting, so that helps.

I'm also very well paid for my work, with a reasonably flexible schedule. I don't answer to a "boss" in an office. That's part of my trade off.


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## Fozzy

MrsHolland said:


> What are property taxes for? We pay about $2K/per yr Council rates to cover rubbish collection, facilities such as Libraries etc. Public schools are largely covered by State and Federal Govt. with a small contribution by the user. Private schools are also partly funded by Govt. but the user pays a fee of between $20 - $30K per year.


In most parts of the U.S., property taxes are mainly for the public school system--which is part of the reason you have huge variances in the quality of education your children receive. 

Poor neighborhood = low property tax collection = underfunded school = poorly educated children = poor neighborhood.

Wealthy neighborhood = high property tax collection = well funded school = well educated children = wealthy neighborhood.


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## southbound

I suppose this cost of living makes a big difference. I'll list a few other things and see how they compare.

These are some average monthly bills of mine. I'm not saying this is everybody's bills where I live. 

Electric: $50s 
Car insurance for 2 vehicles(full coverage on one): $134 
Cable + landline + internet (combined bill): $130
Gallon of gas: $1.87 currently

I recently had a bill that I thought was ridiculous: Four of us ate at Applebees. We had 4 entrees, an appetizer, and 1 dessert. The bill was around$100.


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## Mommywhatohnothing

I don't have kids. I can't have kids my severe PCOS has made me sterile. I live in a very low cost of living area as well. It's even more affordable if you don't have a car. I don't care much about money having a job I love matters a lot more to me. And the organization I work for understands that my health problems require a lot of time off and they work with it as much as I need which a lot of employers wouldn't. But 100% of our employees including management have some level of mental or physical disability. So of course they're going to be understanding.

I don't worry too much about a man not wanting me because of my job or my income. I worry more about a man not wanting me because of all my health issues. My STBX told me they were a big part of what drove him away. Of course the bigger reason was that he decided he preferred men...


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## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I suppose this cost of living makes a big difference. I'll list a few other things and see how they compare.
> 
> These are some average monthly bills of mine. I'm not saying this is everybody's bills where I live. I put ours in Blue...
> 
> Electric: $50s
> 
> With a family of 7 living here.. laptops running 24 hrs a day.. Tv's on throughout the house, a few fans ongoing.. ours is between $120ish up to $170's in the winter with the furnace running..
> 
> Car insurance for 2 vehicles(full coverage on one): $134
> 
> That is incredibly low cost..you must be paying the bare minimum ! ....We have 3 vehicles .... our cars are old so we don't pay for Comprehensive.. just Liability - but "stacked" as they term it... I don't get the cheapest we can.. in case we get sued.. we pay $1,800 a year for 3... will jump to $2,200 when we add another vehicle -with 2 teen drivers.. going to commute to college this year... Insurance went up considerably with adding them..
> 
> Our *Home insurance* is about $700 a year... it would be a lot more but I have it so we'd have to pay the 1st $5,000 (I think).. I wanted a lower cost.. we've never used it -ever so far..
> 
> Cable + landline + internet (combined bill): $130
> 
> I do not especially care for Comcast/ Infinity whatever they call themselves..... but we don't have competition... so I'm stuck with them. I pay about $130 for internet & Cable.. the cheapest package they offer, Digital starter I think it's called... have to get all these little boxes for our tvs..adding to the cost...no high def.. no special channels...
> 
> Magic jack for phone.. I paid that up for 5 years ahead... (would have been $35 a year)...
> 
> Gallon of gas: $1.87 currently ... Ours was about $2.55 a week ago.. husband said he passed a station today in another town.. (always a little cheaper there for some reason.. it was $2.05 )





> I recently had a bill that I thought was ridiculous: Four of us ate at Applebees. We had 4 entrees, an appetizer, and 1 dessert. The bill was around$100.


Yeah this can happen pretty easily.. .. We like to go to "Ichiban" Steak house.. get the Hibachi lunch.. the prices are between $8 (vegetarian no meat) up to $14 (steak, shrimp, chicken combinations)....

We always get water to drink to keep the cost down..and these entertaining Japanese guys cook it right in front of you.. that's a real treat for us.. they juggle the eggs, their utensils, have used a little man oil squirter, looks like he is peeing...everyone is laughing... they set the grill on fire like this... that's always a fun day out..


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## Fozzy

I've always wanted to try tepenyaki, but I don't want to sit next to strangers. Unfortunately, they won't give me my own private chef.


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