# Planning to Leave



## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a> and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work. 

But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?

Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Think very carefully about what you want your future to look like.

Your deception is over the top.
"I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger"...Almost make me throw up!
Please Karma bring the hammer down.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

It sounds like to me you want to take on the “mother” role full time and divorce your “wife” role. Why the need to blindside him? Is that just an extra dig on your way out? I hope you find what you’re looking for.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

Did you miss this part?



KM87 said:


> What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴 and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

This isn't blind siding, and it isn't deception. It is him not HEARING me for YEARS and I've finally had enough. I'm not really here to debate the merits of my choice. I'm here for advice on handling the emotional aspect of my impending but necessary separation.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> It sounds like to me you want to take on the “mother” role full time and divorce your “wife” role. Why the need to blindside him? Is that just an extra dig on your way out? I hope you *find what you’re looking for*.


She won't.
She'll find what she's asking for tho.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Why do you continue to have children with him? Why wait your going to get money and then nothing changes your still by yourself caring for the children. What else is happening that you don't mention? If your seeking validation from others why? If you hate him just leave him for goodness sake. Why make him wait just do it, being this way is not right. Why he not beating you nor abusive, he's just putting all his energy in supporting his woman with 4 of his kids. MPOV


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Thoughts I had after reading your post. 
If you are so exhausted why have you gone onto have 4 children? Why didn't you stop at 2 or 3?
You say you want to leave partly because of your children's childhood. How will leaving him make their childhood better?I think it will make it worse, especially as children hate it when their parents divorce whatever anyone says. 
What hours does your husband work on average? Does he have a day off? Who looks after the children while you work?
Do you have to work financially? How much does he bring to the house? You?

I do think its pretty mean and cruel to be making arrangements to leave behind his back yes. I couldn't do that myself, especially as its for a long time. Have you even told him that you want to end the marriage? If you haven't then please do, otherwise its just plain mean. I know people who had break downs after their spouse left out of the blue and had a divorce sprung on them.

You SHOULD feel badly for him and yes it IS a betrayal. At least get some good MC together first and work on the marriage for a year or so before you think of dropping the bombshell. Or did you not mean it when you made your marriage vows?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Tilted 1 said:


> Why do you continue to have children with him? Why wait your going to get money and then nothing changes your still by yourself caring for the children. What else is happening that you don't mention? If your seeking validation from others why? If you hate him just leave him for goodness sake. Why make him wait just do it, being this way is not right. Why he not beating you nor abusive, he's just putting all his energy in supporting his woman with 4 of his kids. MPOV


One of which isn't actually his.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

KM87 said:


> This isn't blind siding, and it isn't deception. It is him not HEARING me for YEARS and I've finally had enough. I'm not really here to debate the merits of my choice. I'm here for advice on handling the emotional aspect of my impending but necessary separation.


ME ME ME.....
The words came from your mouth not mine.

Like I said think carefully about what YOUR future will look like.
It's quite hypocritical to complain about communication with your husband while to go behind his back and plot to financially destroy him.
Grass is not greener....
“I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil.”
“To suffer terribly and to know yourself as the cause: that is Hell.”
― Jordan B. Peterson


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

KM87 said:


> This isn't blind siding, and it isn't deception. It is him not HEARING me for YEARS and I've finally had enough. I'm not really here to debate the merits of my choice. I'm here for advice on handling the emotional aspect of my impending but necessary separation.


So, you decided to have 3 kids with him? :surprise:


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## delupt (Dec 1, 2014)

Please correct me if i'm mistaken, but wasn't there a very serious issue with his older son (previous marriage) and your kids from this marriage? It seemed a much greater reason to detach from him than simply that he works too hard to provide for you all. Was that ever resolved?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think that in general, unless someone is in a physically dangerous / abusive situation, they should tell their spouse when they plan to divorce.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you guys read her post history, @StillSearching and @Diana7?

He's been neglecting her for years.

He's been snide and belittling.

He's been a lazy lover and stopped caring about her pleasure.

His 12 year old kid told the therapist he wants to kill her kids. And she's about to have another vulnerable baby.


But, yeah, she's selfish or something for wanting to leave after telling him it was bad and being ignored because somehow he'll be blindsided.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I, too, am rather perplexed by your continuation of getting pregnant and having kids with him, despite the prior admonitions issued to him to please cut back on his work.

At some juncture in the hearings process, a good family court judge or his family attorney is undoubtedly going to ask you that very same question when the subject of child support is brought up!

Hoping that you will have a more than satisfactory answer for them!*


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My wife managed to have a few kids from me, despite me being a very horrible man... so, I can understand... :laugh:


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

I don't consider what this is to be a partnership. He has not met my needs since being married, including financial, as he has always insisted I "contribute" as if raising the kids nd managing everything in the home isn't contributing. He works from 6am til probably 11pm, on average - 2 jobs, 1 to help pay the bills and the other is the business he started without consulting me and which he intends to eventually be the only source of income. He doesn't ever take any days off to spend with us.

When we got married I made it clear I wanted four kids. He agreed, and he promised to raise my oldest as his own. I have the means to raise four kids without him and always have. I currently work three afternoons a week and pay a babysitter to be with the kids while I am gone. I have continued to work because at the beginning he required me to and as time went on, because I figured I would need a way to support my kids someday. 

He has kids from previous relationships, one of which used to come every other weekend (my husband was rarely home for these visits). He threatened to his psychiatrist that he wanted to murder my children and actually had a plan on how he would do it. With my husband never around, I put an end to those visits, but have encouraged him to continue working on his relationship with his son (which he won't do because he is working).

I have asked him to leave twice and he won't. He told me the last time that divorce papers are the only way he will leave, and I told him I could provide them. I have made it clear on countless occasions that I am miserable with our life because we are not partners in anything. I have no say in the business and haven't from the start. I wanted to raise a family together and he wants to build his empire. We want different things. But of course I didn't know that until after we got married because he won't communicate honestly, but instead tells me what I want to hear.

I think I answered most of the questions. Perhaps that will allow for some constructive feedback.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

And to be very clear, I have wanted 4 kids from the start. I have the means to provide for them and always have. I adore my children and am a good mother. I wished for a partner to lead our family and he promised to be that. I guess you could say I ultimately got what I wanted because baby #4 is soon to arrive. But his unkept promises and empty words are why I am planning to leave, among other reasons.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

KM87 said:


> And to be very clear, I have wanted 4 kids from the start. I have the means to provide for them and always have. I adore my children and am a good mother. I wished for a partner to lead our family and he promised to be that. I guess you could say I ultimately got what I wanted because baby #4 is soon to arrive. But his unkept promises and empty words are why I am planning to leave, among other reasons.


Sorry, I still don't get it... you say it was bad from the beginning, so, instead of divorcing him immediately, you carried on with your plan to have kids with this horrible man... doesn't he feel a bit exploited about it? I get he has many faults, but I would feel like a sperm donor in his shoes... sorry to be blunt.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You seem to be saying that you don't have what you consider to be a marriage except legally, but a sort of business arrangement. You will 'fire' your husband.

Emotional aspect: Your resentment should lessen. Your guilt will likely at least diminish too. You have warned him. Perhaps you will find fulfillment of self--your main emphasis now. Enjoy your children--all four.

His impact may be different than you think. He may be relieved and continue to love the benefits of his work relationships.

Good luck.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

KM87 said:


> I don't consider what this is to be a partnership. He has not met my needs since being married, including financial, as he has always insisted I "contribute" as if raising the kids nd managing everything in the home isn't contributing. He works from 6am til probably 11pm, on average - 2 jobs, 1 to help pay the bills and the other is the business he started without consulting me and which he intends to eventually be the only source of income. He doesn't ever take any days off to spend with us.
> 
> When we got married I made it clear I wanted four kids. He agreed, and he promised to raise my oldest as his own. I have the means to raise four kids without him and always have. I currently work three afternoons a week and pay a babysitter to be with the kids while I am gone. I have continued to work because at the beginning he required me to and as time went on, because I figured I would need a way to support my kids someday.
> 
> ...



*If this is indeed the case, then I'd say to "go for it!"

But please tell him sooner than later, and not wait until the final moment!

Provided that there is no infidelity on either side, and if he's rather accepting and conciliatory of your proposal, then see if you can handle the divorce through a negotiated process like mediation, rather than taking it directly through the court system! It would be far more cost-effective for the both of you!*


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I understand you have advised your H over the years and he continues on his merry way working(to provide the life you and the kids enjoy). Part of me thinks you believe life will be better sans H being around the house but receiving a monthly child support check all the same. So what is the difference right? There is a lot of difference. Specifically for the kids. Instead of conducting a complete mind screwing of your H why not have your H served D papers? The serving of the D papers and working towards separation is a consequence or wake up call to his not listening to your concerns. Your concerns, desire and wishes ARE VALID. The H and W must always come first in a marriage. Making separation very real to your H will wake him up to the sad reality of his workday life and hopefully will make him turn the corner. Or, it may just be a bump in the road to workaholic superstardom for your H. If you H makes the need change you can stop the D. Give the guy a wake up call with bite(D papers). Don't simply pull the rug out from under hour H and say, "I told you so."


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Have you guys read her post history, @StillSearching and @Diana7?
> 
> He's been neglecting her for years.
> 
> ...


Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> My wife managed to have a few kids from me, despite me being a very horrible man... so, I can understand... :laugh:


I have no idea why people do that, bring innocent children into a situation they claim is awful.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KM87 said:


> And to be very clear, I have wanted 4 kids from the start. I have the means to provide for them and always have. I adore my children and am a good mother. I wished for a partner to lead our family and he promised to be that. I guess you could say I ultimately got what I wanted because baby #4 is soon to arrive. But his unkept promises and empty words are why I am planning to leave, among other reasons.


yet you kept on bringing them into a situation that you say is awful and intolerable. Not very fair on the children.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I have no idea why people do that, bring innocent children into a situation they claim is awful.


She said it wasn't "black and white"... my translation: yes, I wanted kids, so I put up with you... :laugh:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *I, too, am rather perplexed by your continuation of getting pregnant and having kids with him, despite the prior admonitions issued to him to please cut back on his work.
> 
> At some juncture in the hearings process, a good family court judge or his family attorney is undoubtedly going to ask you that very same question when the subject of child support is brought up!
> 
> Hoping that you will have a more than satisfactory answer for them!*


I rather doubt that any family attorney or family court judge would ever ask that question. It's not like she is having another child without her husband being equally involved in getting pregnant. Child support is determined by a set formula. No judge will determine that a living child not be supported by both parents just because the child exists.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

You should tell your husband of your plans. There's nothing constructive to be gained from secrecy.

Don't be petty.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

KM87 said:


> He has kids from previous relationships, one of which used to come every other weekend (my husband was rarely home for these visits). He threatened to his psychiatrist that he wanted to murder my children and actually had a plan on how he would do it. With my husband never around, I put an end to those visits, but have encouraged him to continue working on his relationship with his son (which he won't do because he is working).


I remember this. I am glad that those visits stopped, but sad that your H doesnt work on the relationship with his son. Is the son better now after getting some help? 

I have planned divorce on the down low myself in the past, because I was afraid of him and how he would react. He had bad anger issues. I felt I needed my plan in place so that when I told him, I could leave right then if it was necessary. Is this your rationale as well, that you are afraid of an over the top angry or violent reaction? What concerns me is the length of time that you have in mind, August is a long time away. He likely will be more angry over the betrayal of you planning this for months, more so than the fact you want out. I get where you are coming from and I am not going to lecture you for wanting out... I dont blame you. But, maybe the sooner, the better?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Finally, Bio Fury echoes my sentiments. The marriage is not working for you, probably not working for him either. However, the secrecy may not be the best route. I understand that you feel that you must conceal your escape/divorce fund, however, in all fairness, he should be advised that you plan on leaving, and divorcing. Blindsiding in this situation is just not sitting well with me. There are no explosive elements to this situation that I can identify at this time. Therefore, I suggest a negotiated separation. Start now, and work toward the legal separation followed by a divorce. I am not saying this will make the whole situation hunky dory, but softening whatever blows there might be is well advised.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

KM87 said:


> I don't consider what this is to be a partnership. He has not met my needs since being married, including financial, as he has always insisted I "contribute" as if raising the kids nd managing everything in the home isn't contributing. He works from 6am til probably 11pm, on average - 2 jobs, 1 to help pay the bills and the other is the business he started without consulting me and which he intends to eventually be the only source of income. He doesn't ever take any days off to spend with us.
> 
> When we got married I made it clear I wanted four kids. He agreed, and he promised to raise my oldest as his own. I have the means to raise four kids without him and always have. I currently work three afternoons a week and pay a babysitter to be with the kids while I am gone. I have continued to work because at the beginning he required me to and as time went on, because I figured I would need a way to support my kids someday.
> 
> ...


I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.

You have clearly informed your husband that you have been seriously unhappy with this relationship for a very long time. He's apparently done nothing to address the issues from his side. It looks like you have two choices: 1) Stay and continue the unhappy farce of a marriage or 2) divorce. I see no problem with choosing #2. It seems like the right choice. It's certainly the choice I've seen suggested over and over to people here on TAM who are in a marriage with a seriously neglectful spouse.

People are also very often told to get all their ducks in row before having their spouse served with the divorce papers. Makes sense to me.

Since you are giving birth in a few weeks, waiting until August makes sense. You need to get through the birth and the first few months of your child's life. On the other hand, having him served now would work as well. Serving him with divorce papers will not get him to move out unless he does it on his own accord. The courts generally will not order him to move out until the divorce is final. 

Could he, during the divorce process force the sale of your home. That would mean that both of you, and all your children, would need to move out.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

KM87 said:


> Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴 and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.
> 
> But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?
> 
> Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!


I reviewed your previous post history and really can't blame you for wanting to move on with your life. It takes two people actively working on a marriage to keep it alive. It seems like you've been going at it solo for a long time. 

Divorce is not an easy or painless process.... For anyone involved. You intrinsically know this but you still don't want to hurt your husband. This thinking does not work. You have to resign yourself to the fact that there is going to be emotional fallout. 

If you feel that you have done everything in your power to fix the relationship without success, then do not feel guilty for leaving the marriage. Do not let anyone make you feel bad about the decisions you need to take to improve you and your kids lives. They are not in your shoes.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.


I think it's the way she started the thread - it honestly sounded to me like "my husband works all the time so I had 4 kids with him and will surprise him with a divorce" when the reality is "my husband is a dangerous psychopath that threatened to murder our children and I need to keep them and me safe."

I think it's still a fair question to ask, though - why have kids with a husband like this?



> You have clearly informed your husband that you have been seriously unhappy with this relationship for a very long time. He's apparently done nothing to address the issues from his side. It looks like you have two choices: 1) Stay and continue the unhappy farce of a marriage or 2) divorce. I see no problem with choosing #2. It seems like the right choice. It's certainly the choice I've seen suggested over and over to people here on TAM who are in a marriage with a seriously neglectful spouse.
> 
> People are also very often told to get all their ducks in row before having their spouse served with the divorce papers. Makes sense to me.
> 
> ...


Personally, I'd focus on safety first: have a safe place to go when you tell him, or have someone else tell him. Have the kids safe. Ensure the police know he's a danger. Do everything you can legally to protect the kid's safety custody-wise (as in you get sole custody) and protect them financially as best you can.

Plan the move, and then execute it quickly. His feelings in the matter stopped being relevant the minute he threatened the kids, so disregard them. Get out safely, and protect your interests.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KM87 said:


> Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴<a href="https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a> and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.
> 
> But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?
> 
> Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!


But you spend the money his so-called "workaholism" earns, and you kept allowing him to father your children, so where does this leave you?

By the way if you have been hiding money that is a marital asset the courts tend to take an unsympathetic view of that. So be very careful.

If your husband is as bad as has been reported don't play around. Get out ASAP.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I rather doubt that any family attorney or family court judge would ever ask that question. It's not like she is having another child without her husband being equally involved in getting pregnant. Child support is determined by a set formula. No judge will determine that a living child not be supported by both parents just because the child exists.


*Only if the divorce turns contentious and with the respondents lawyer bringing up the subject matter. Rest assured that the complantants lawyer will definitely not bring it up! The family court judge will not usually bring it up of his own accord, but could certainly be prompted to ask pertinent follow up questions.

In which case, it would be preferable to have a plausible answer prepared, or at least a tacit denial to the assertion that it was being done solely to pad child support from him!

In which case, she had best be prepared to answer any follow up questions to that denial!
*


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Marduk: if I understood her post correctly it's her husband's kid that threatened to kill her kids. That's why she stop the kid visits


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Rob_1 said:


> @Marduk: if I understood her post correctly it's her husband's kid that threatened to kill her kids. That's why she stop the kid visits


Ah, then I misunderstood or misread it. Thanks for the correction.

At any rate, he knows that she's been unhappy for a long time, hasn't done anything about it, and hence shouldn't be surprised by her response. Her plan can be a bit more graceful if safety isn't an issue. So the divorce is kinda on him then.

But part of me would still be back to "why have so many kids with a husband like this?" But maybe that can be reserved for the post-divorce rebuilding process.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@KM87

During the divorce, you will need to list all of your debts and assets. This includes any accounts that you hold in your name only. So you will need to disclose the money that you are setting aside. In today's world, there is a paper trail for all things financial unless you keep it all in your sock drawer.

The funds you are putting aside will be counted as part of your 50% of marital assets.


.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.


Had to like this 2X.

But in all of her post never once does she mention she's afraid of his temper or violence possibility. And if she was like most would say is in the third page of post. But no he's just ensuring to have a successful business and for his efforts gets him divorce. Anyone can be an ass, but really if your only concern is oneself it says alot of that person.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Tilted 1 said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> > Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.
> ...


It doesn't matter whether or not we feel her reasons for divorcing are justified. She doesn't need our permission nor is she asking for it. She is asking for advice on handling the fallout from the hurt she's bound to cause her spouse. 

Just as most people don't give an OP a hard time for planning to divorce a spouse who withholds sex, we shouldn't be giving this OP a hard time for divorcing her workaholic husband. In both cases, someone is not getting their needs met.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Yikes, you are caught in a whirlwind of lies! Think about your kids, what will this teach them?

Communicate the "snap" to your husband. We typically react to this by launching into problem solving mode. Men do not like an unhappy wife!

Start to move the needle on new terms and patterns in the relationship.

#1 - Marriage comes first. If the business is too much then sell it. Downsize. You don't need that much money to be happy.
#2 - Kids come next. You both need to parent. Kids need to see 2 loving parents. They need to learn from both their male and female role models. When they grow up, they will do what you did (without even knowing it).

Cultivate the marriage by meeting eachother's emotional needs. Heal past hurts and focus on the future.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tilted 1 said:


> Had to like this 2X.
> 
> But in all of her post never once does she mention she's afraid of his temper or violence possibility. And if she was like most would say is in the third page of post. But no he's just ensuring to have a successful business and for his efforts gets him divorce. Anyone can be an ass, but really if your only concern is oneself it says alot of that person.


She did say he was a belittler. Usually when someone describes someone with that word, it means he's mentally/verbally abusive. I haven't read the other threads to know if that's in there, but if it is, she should tread carefully and not inform him until all her ducks are in a row and she can leave with the kids immediately if need be. She's at high risk for PPD if he is indeed such a person (although if he's only home from 11pm to 6am, I don't see how he can be around enough to be an obstacle).

If this is NOT the case, then just inform him you're filing and will keep him informed on the progress. I see no other reason to hide it.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

Marduk said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.
> ...


I can't reply to all at the moment, but I must clarify that it was my stepson threatening to murder my children, not my husband. I am not concerned about anyone's physical safety in our home at this time.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> KM87 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴 and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.
> ...


Again, I cannot respond in detail at this time, but I feel compelled to clarify that his earnings go towards household expenses (though he cannot cover all of them) and after I take care of the remainder of the bills the money is sunk into his business. I do not spend "his" money, and am able to put away only a fraction of "mine".


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

This is a tough one, given his history and your current situation (pregnancy)
It may be worth your while to consult an IC for this one. While I do not agree with your "springing" this on him and planning it all this time, you gotta do you.
An IC may help you navigate this impending situation in a way where you are not lying, but answering to the best of your ability.
I would simply not pretend everything is fine. That's lying. Continue to remind him of your unhappiness. I'd just tell him the truth. Divorce day is coming. No surprises.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't understand where people are getting that she's "springing" this on him. I mean, he's known for years she's unhappy, she's asked him to leave twice and he's said he'll do so when he sees divorce papers.

So clearly divorce has already come up.

So how is he going to be blindsided?

As far as the kids go he's been asked to leave twice and still got her pregnant again, so that argument goes both ways. It's irrelevant now though because the baby's coming.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

I don’t think he’s being blindsided. He’s dared you in the past and you haven’t followed through. I say tell him again in detail about your plans. He won’t believe you but you are no longer hiding your actions. Sometimes serving divorce papers are the catalyst to change (good and bad). But don’t threaten unless you are going to follow through.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Staying after you have decided that you are definitely going to leave feels a lot like lying. You don't appear to be terribly dishonest since you've already told the husband that you wanted a divorce.

There are some questions you should probably answer for yourself as you go through divorce and before you get involved with someone else.



If you were in a bad relationship and you knew it was a bad relationship, why did you stay so long?
Why did you decide to have children with someone you didn't like?
What does a good relationship look like to you?
What kind of co-parenting relationship do you want with your ex? What is he capable of?
How did the way I communicated with my ex make the problems worse or why did he not understand / believe what I was saying?
What made you get into a relationship with someone that you weren't compatible with?

I think I had a couple others on my mind when I was starting down the path to divorce but that is a good starting point.

I think things like individual and marriage counseling can help you answer the questions or you can try to work through them yourself. Answering them yourself is harder and more likely to include subjective bias. Not answering them is likely to lead to repeat mistakes. Our state requires that both parents take a co-parenting class which I also highly recommend. Since you are pregnant with a child of his divorce is not going to get rid of him more than likely. You're likely going to be tied to him for at least the next two decades and should act accordingly (IE try to stay civil, try to be fair in the settlement, etc).


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

KM87 said:


> I can't reply to all at the moment, but I must clarify that it was my stepson threatening to murder my children, not my husband. I am not concerned about anyone's physical safety in our home at this time.


I read the post wrong and have been corrected. I apologize for causing confusion.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.


I've kept in touch with the now grown daughter of a close friend. I kid you not, she has had 3, count em' 3, children with a meth addict. Why? She wanted all her kids to have the same father. It's something she has always felt very strongly about. She always wanted to be a mother, she wanted a large family, she had an accidental pregnancy, so she kept having kids with a literal tweeker just so they'd all have the same father.

A girl I went to school with had kids with a lying, cheating, chronically unemployed or job hopping, jackass because he promised to change after each birth, never did, but he made beautiful babies. 

I have repeatedly been asked why I had a kid at all, much less 2, with my exH. I didn't. Not on purpose, anyway. DD1 was the result of antibiotics interfering with the Pill and no one telling me that was a possibility. Not my pharmacy, not the ER doctor, not my GP. DD#2 was the result of a condom failure.

I know a lot of people with kids who had or have bad relationships. The reason some women keep having kids with men in those relationships are myriad and don't always make sense to other people.






In Absentia said:


> She said it wasn't "black and white"... my translation: yes, I wanted kids, so I put up with you... :laugh:


I've heard that one in the wild. More than once.



arbitrator said:


> *Only if the divorce turns contentious and with the respondents lawyer bringing up the subject matter. Rest assured that the complantants lawyer will definitely not bring it up! The family court judge will not usually bring it up of his own accord, but could certainly be prompted to ask pertinent follow up questions.
> 
> In which case, it would be preferable to have a plausible answer prepared, or at least a tacit denial to the assertion that it was being done solely to pad child support from him!
> 
> ...


I am curious, now. Is this a thing in TX? That's where you live, right? I've been to court for many divorces as moral support, my own divorce, and a few child support cases between unmarried parents. I've never heard anything like this. Usually, it's the judge going over the submitted income and asset documents, the custody agreement or state recommended agreement if they couldn't agree, and setting support based on the state formula. The only time I have ever heard a judge mention conception is when paternity was in question.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

KM87 said:


> And to be very clear, I have wanted 4 kids from the start. I have the means to provide for them and always have. I adore my children and am a good mother. I wished for a partner to lead our family and he promised to be that. I guess you could say I ultimately got what I wanted because baby #4 is soon to arrive. But his unkept promises and empty words are why I am planning to leave, among other reasons.


It's been emphasized, by you, that this has been a "for years" issue... his problems. So "for years" you've known things have been bad, and yet "for years" you've kept having kids. Not just your kids. They're his too. I think that's something more than a few folk here are having issues with.

Is he aware that the only needs he's served has been as a sperm donar? 

This workaholic thing... it's nothing new here. Many of us have owned that, some of us for our entire lives, some of us have had epiphanies. I fall into the latter camp. But it took a couple decades to get there (live a more balanced life), and frankly, my wife did things, regarding lack of intimacy, that created more fulfillment working than I found coming home. 

Six years. The only reason why that seems like a long time, for you, is because you've spent those six years cranking out kids. You've chosen a direction and refused to alter course, despite evidence your marriage was not tolerable to you.

I get that divorce may be appropriate due to who he is. But you've not done your part to deal with things appropriately when you saw the issues. Staying with him so you could have more kids? Because let's face it, that's how it sounds. So... this blind-siding thing is just, plain, wrong. If you have to leave him for safety, then it would be done immediately, not planned out like your next vacation. 

Get your plan out in the open. At least give him a chance for the epiphany that has eluded yourself. He probably can't change, but he deserves to know what's coming.


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## KM87 (Nov 5, 2017)

Thanks for this reply. I appreciate your "hearing" me. Ultimately, I would love for the divorce papers to be a successful wake up call and testament to my seriousness in desiring change. With my baby coming in 6 weeks, I had wanted to delay everything while I navigate the first few months of newborn haze again, but I don't necessarily have to wait. My concern in serving divorce papers as a wake up call is that he may make the changes necessary for now. But what happens when, a few years down the road, he reverts back to his workaholism? I guess then I actually divorce him? I've been waiting for him to want to change, to want to be with us more, to want to lead our family in the life we talked about from the start. That's obviously not happening. But if he "changes" to avoid a divorce, it's only a matter of time before he reverts back, and then to threaten a divorce again feels less weighty and serious to me. And I don't believe divorce should be tossed around lightly ever. I'm so skeptical because he always just tells people what they want to hear. I believe that scenario would be no different. But I guess maybe that is more of a proper protocol to follow: papers served -> change made -> time passes -> old behaviors surface -> papers served -> actual divorce? Is that a better route?



Yeswecan said:


> I understand you have advised your H over the years and he continues on his merry way working(to provide the life you and the kids enjoy). Part of me thinks you believe life will be better sans H being around the house but receiving a monthly child support check all the same. So what is the difference right? There is a lot of difference. Specifically for the kids. Instead of conducting a complete mind screwing of your H why not have your H served D papers? The serving of the D papers and working towards separation is a consequence or wake up call to his not listening to your concerns. Your concerns, desire and wishes ARE VALID. The H and W must always come first in a marriage. Making separation very real to your H will wake him up to the sad reality of his workday life and hopefully will make him turn the corner. Or, it may just be a bump in the road to workaholic superstardom for your H. If you H makes the need change you can stop the D. Give the guy a wake up call with bite(D papers). Don't simply pull the rug out from under hour H and say, "I told you so."


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Marduk said:


> I think it's the way she started the thread - it honestly sounded to me like "my husband works all the time so I had 4 kids with him and will surprise him with a divorce" when the reality is "my husband is a dangerous psychopath that threatened to murder our children and I need to keep them and me safe."
> 
> I think it's still a fair question to ask, though - why have kids with a husband like this?
> 
> ...


If there's a clear & present danger, waiting until August is absurd. She needs to get out now. It's easy to see her desire to plan her exit, many months down the road, as a convenience, not a necessity. 

Her earlier posts had made her situation seem dismal, dire, and in need of immediate remedy. This thread speaks differently. It calls into question a lot of things. And, again, why would you willingly/actively conceive another kid so shortly prior to exit? Her husband should have understood his role as a sperm donor, with the lifelong implications associated with that role.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

KM87 said:


> Ultimately, I would love for the divorce papers to be a successful wake up call and testament to my seriousness in desiring change. With my baby coming in 6 weeks, I had wanted to delay everything while I navigate the first few months of newborn haze again, but I don't necessarily have to wait. *My concern in serving divorce papers as a wake up call is that he may make the changes necessary for now. But what happens when, a few years down the road, he reverts back to his workaholism?*


If you think it possible he could actually change for a few years, become that better person... you're giving him more credit than most deserve. If that's actually a possibility, it is something to embrace, not fear that he would "revert." I don't think people can fake it for that long. 

Your continuing to have kids with this man is likely read, by him, as an indication of your lack of seriousness that his issues are divorce-worthy. I think most husbands would read it that way. So you may be guilty of inconsistency with your message. Serving divorce papers could change that. The messaging finally becoming crystal-clear. What you have to consider accepting is that this may be the FIRST time he'll have heard that message so clearly and without contradiction. So if it becomes a wake-up call to him, it could be worth giving it a chance instead of assuming he'll revert.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> If there's a clear & present danger, waiting until August is absurd. She needs to get out now. It's easy to see her desire to plan her exit, many months down the road, as a convenience, not a necessity.
> 
> Her earlier posts had made her situation seem dismal, dire, and in need of immediate remedy. This thread speaks differently. It calls into question a lot of things. And, again, why would you willingly/actively conceive another kid so shortly prior to exit? Her husband should have understood his role as a sperm donor, with the lifelong implications associated with that role.


I got it wrong - it was the oldest child that was a concern, not the husband.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Lila said:


> It doesn't matter whether or not we feel her reasons for divorcing are justified. She doesn't need our permission nor is she asking for it. She is asking for advice on handling the fallout from the hurt she's bound to cause her spouse.
> 
> Just as most people don't give an OP a hard time for planning to divorce a spouse who withholds sex, we shouldn't be giving this OP a hard time for divorcing her workaholic husband. In both cases, someone is not getting their needs met.


That is true, no one needs a reason for divorce, and she knows she should be up front with him but is looking how to handle fallout. I don't see it this way however she had been only seeking to please herself ... By her own words l wanted 4 kids and she was going to do what ever it took to do it. She thought it wise to use her husband as the donor, and supply her with a means to deprived him a honest marriage.

And for wanting to divorce her workaholic husband, she should have done this after the first child was born, but didn't anyone would have help her get inpregnated her, and fulfill her personal goal. But why as l see as she did stick around sugar daddy comes to mind. Or Maybe she just like taking advantage of her H or settling an score.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

turnera said:


> She did say he was a belittler. Usually when someone describes someone with that word, it means he's mentally/verbally abusive. I haven't read the other threads to know if that's in there, but if it is, she should tread carefully and not inform him until all her ducks are in a row and she can leave with the kids immediately if need be. She's at high risk for PPD if he is indeed such a person (although if he's only home from 11pm to 6am, I don't see how he can be around enough to be an obstacle).
> 
> If this is NOT the case, then just inform him you're filing and will keep him informed on the progress. I see no other reason to hide it.


Again she has no misgivings or lack of words to say what she wants to say, so a belittling lifestyle makes it even more of a reason to leave the marriage before her dream was fulfilled. No she wanted what she wanted. She's got her ducks in a row a long time ago. And yes he's here home shouldn't be a problem.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Tilted 1 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter whether or not we feel her reasons for divorcing are justified. She doesn't need our permission nor is she asking for it. She is asking for advice on handling the fallout from the hurt she's bound to cause her spouse.
> ...


Apparently this thread is triggering you for some reason. Let's get something clear, if the OPs husband was in fact a sugar daddy then there would be no need for her to work, provide for the household, or lift a finger to do anything around the house. That is not the case here since she has clearly stated that she provides financially for the family AND does all of the child rearing AND housekeeping. She also stated she can support herself and her kids. 

Next, since you feel so strongly about people making the decision to divorce when things start heading down the toilet....I encourage you to post those strong feelings on every thread where a man is planning on divorcing their long time wife over intimacy issues that have existed for many, many, many years and multiple kids. Usually the reason given by these men for not divorcing is that they didn't want to disrupt their lives. They enjoy many of the benefits of marriage and haven't wanted to give those up. 

Hope makes people do stupid things.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Lila said:


> Apparently this thread is triggering you for some reason. Let's get something clear, if the OPs husband was in fact a sugar daddy then there would be no need for her to work, provide for the household, or lift a finger to do anything around the house. That is not the case here since she has clearly stated that she provides financially for the family AND does all of the child rearing AND housekeeping. She also stated she can support herself and her kids.
> 
> Next, since you feel so strongly about people making the decision to divorce when things start heading down the toilet....I encourage you to post those strong feelings on every thread where a man is planning on divorcing their long time wife over intimacy issues that have existed for many, many, many years and multiple kids. Usually the reason given by these men for not divorcing is that they didn't want to disrupt their lives. They enjoy many of the benefits of marriage and haven't wanted to give those up.
> 
> Hope makes people do stupid things.


I'm not triggering, really but 3 kids for 20+ years points to, support she has not said he didn't say she had to work, but rather to help the family did. I get it, your views/feelings are more for her and that's ok, 

And as for the other I am in fact saying and doing the same to males on the other threads such as - seeking some understanding thread. My thoughts are firm and no so selective if it's that bad leave. 

No reason to bring other humans into the world. Because a person wants what they want, that's all . She really has not stated really why she stayed. And had means to support herself as l have read it and was not feeling physically endangered by anyone her words. So it's by her choices she will live the rest of her life, and now so will 4 of her children.

And l couldn't agree more hope does make people do stupid things.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

My thoughts are firm and no so selective if it's that bad leave.

Meaning to the spouse, or the offended party.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I understand your frustration and finally giving up on your husband ever changing. He has igored your pleas for years, and belittled you. You are what is called a "Walkaway wife." It is a false word, however, as it implies that a wife just up and decided to leave, blindsiding her husband, when in fact, she has told him for years what she needed, and he ignored her, or didn't take her seriously. She finally accepted that she will never be heard or his actions changed, so she leaves.

You wanting to wait until the baby is born and is a few months past newborn is also understandable. Women are supremely vulnerable when pregnant, and an attentive mama is exhausted the first months of baby's life until it gets more of a eat/sleep routine so mom can get some sleep. It has to be that way, or baby would be neglected and perhaps malnourished and unhealthy (i.e. severe diaper rash from not being changed promptly enough.)

If you were to have him served sooner than August, do you have anywhere you can make a soft landing where people would help you manage the baby and children? If so, I'd suggest you not wait until August, but just rip off the bandaid.

You are in a difficult spot, and you are to be commended for looking out for the wellbeing of yourself and your baby.

Don't worry about him changing. If he truly changed after you divorced, you could remarry him. But him changing is unlikely. Most likely he will be angry with you for daring to divorce him, and he will double down. That is human nature. But miracles do happen.

Get copies of all his and your financial info, business info, etc. and keep them in a safe place. He may want to withhold finances out of retaliation.

August is really far away. I'd suggest you figure out how to do it sooner for our own sanity. He knows your complaints, and has refused to change, but has ramped it up by taking on a new business. You have spoken about divorce and he dared you to do it. If he pretends to be surprised, that is on him.

Any time someone comes to this site wanting to divorce, others advise them to do the same things I'm telling you. Men here are just triggered, because they don't like the women having a backbone, much less doing things behind their backs. Like Lila said, your case is no different than that of a man who comes here complaining of a sexless marriage to a wife who has made zero effort for years. The men say, "Divorce her and find someone who will meet your needs."

Your children will not suffer much from the divorce, considering his work hours, and that he never takes a day off. In fact, they may even see him more, because he will have them ALL DAY when it is his day. If he is like most people, (usually men who have weekends) he will make an effort to be the best daddy he can be, and will do all kinds of fun things with them. He will HAVE to take days off to be a father.

Too bad that it will take a divorce to make him be available to his children.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Adelais said:


> Any time someone comes to this site wanting to divorce, others advise them to do the same things I'm telling you. Men here are just triggered, because they don't like the women having a backbone, much less doing things behind their backs. Like Lila said, your case is no different than that of a man who comes here complaining of a sexless marriage to a wife who has made zero effort for years. The men say, "Divorce her and find someone who will meet your needs."


That is a terribly unfair characterization of a great many people and posts here on TAM. There are posts today referencing men staying in a marriage despite it being sexless (or at the very least passionless) because they feel a responsibility to the kids they created together. You can (and you did) argue that that's an overblown concern and it may.... or may not be. Regardless, the generalizations you made about the men here are unwarranted.

It is without question that emotions rise to the top in many conversations, and yes, people seek validation for their own circumstances by "supporting" the same thing for others. Men and women both. We can do better.

I think posts from either men or women should be looked upon individual and not automatically presumed to be biased towards one "side" or the other.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> I am curious, now. Is this a thing in TX? That's where you live, right? I've been to court for many divorces as moral support, my own divorce, and a few child support cases between unmarried parents. I've never heard anything like this. Usually, it's the judge going over the submitted income and asset documents, the custody agreement or state recommended agreement if they couldn't agree, and setting support based on the state formula. The only time I have ever heard a judge mention conception is when paternity was in question.


*It was a thing in at least Galveston and Harris Counties years ago!

Respondent or his attorney could complain and judge would hold child support open until the matter was openly resolved. If the couple were totally amenable to an agreed-upon child support amount and the judge agreed, then the state figure was duly waived! *


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Moderator warning: 

Please refrain from personal insults and attacks. Anyone who can't abide by this request will be taking a vacation from TAM.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

OP, 

Why you had more than one child with a man you are profoundly unhappy is not why you started this thread, so I will try to address your concerns/questions with the information you have provided. My advice is based solely on information you provided in this thread, and may fail to address issues not mentioned here. My apologies if my reply is off the mark.

Is there no way that you can tell your husband that you want a divorce, and work out the details together? Many couples decide to divorce, and work together to sort out living arrangements, visitation, finances, etc. before divorce papers are even filled. Do you have a room in your home that you, or he, could use until moving day? 

Navigating a divorce can be tricky in the ideal situation, which yours is not. Based on your responses you are not in fear of harm from your STBX husband, and you have the financial means to support your children, and yourself. Your situation, though not ideal, did not seem to be dire. Thankfully. I am sorry that your marriage has become intolerable, but thankfully you have the means to leave, and provide your children a safe, looking home. Stability will take time, but it is possible.

With that in mind, have you thought about childcare since you will very likely have to work full time to support your family? If you don't already have childcare, and plan on attending it, be picky. I realize that finances often dictate what is available, but a safe, nurturing environment, is priceless. As a mother I happily gave up life's little luxuries to ensure that my children were cared for by someone who helped them thrive. If you do not have childcare ahead thought out, start researching now. Ask friends/family for recommendations. Meet with potential providers, collect references and contact them, make sure they are correctly licenced or insured if the law requires them to be, etc. This is one area that you should demand excellence in the service provided. Childcare is likely to be one of your largest expenses. Arranging for a caregiver now will help to ensure that you are awarded adequate child support so that it can be provided.

Will you be moving, or do you intend on keeping your current home? If you plan on moving, have you been looking for places to live? I would suggest trying to keep your school-aged children in their current school if at all possible. Divorces are emotionally very difficult on children, so having people they know in their support system would be very beneficial. 

If you plan on leaving in August, it may help to get a storage unit and start acquiring furniture and other household items that you know you will need in your new home. It's much easier to do so over a little at a time to help lessen the financial impact. Keep an eye out for good deals. It may help the children adjust if you allow them to help decorate their new bedrooms. Divorces often leave a child feeling lost and powerless. Letting them help decorate may help them to feel like they have a voice, and some control in what is happening in their life. 

Talk to your friends and family about your intention to divorce so they can help support you emotionally. With a new baby coming you are very likely to feel overwhelmed, at the very least. Giving your support network a heads up about your situation will allow them time to decide how/when they can help. 

You might have a friend or family member who is willing to babysit, help clean, help set up your new home, or help you move/pack from your marital home, etc. but they need advance notice so that they can take time off of work, or whatever they need to do. Springing your situation on your support system may make it difficult for them to be there for you. Talking to someone now, if you aren't already, will make the coming months less difficult to get through. Getting a divorce is difficult enough, without trying to do it all alone. Do you have items you need to sell, and a friend who is a master of selling? It might be a good way to make some money. It could also help get rid of items you do not want or need, and save you the trouble of moving it into your new home. 

If you tell your husband your intentions, and he suddenly becomes the family-man- of-the-year, don't trust it. Continue with your plans, and if he wants to salvage your family, he can absolutely do so while living apart. There is nothing wrong with living separately as you work on your marriage. Many couples have had their relationship's saved because they put in the effort, and fell in love with their each other again. There is truth in the saying, "You don't know what you've got, until it's gone."

You and your STBX husband need to decide how to tell the children about the divorce. You also need to consider (and understand that some are subject to change, and more are likely to be added) things like visitation, "rules" regarding dating/new partners IE. No sleepovers while children are present until they meet the children. No revolving bedroom door while children are present. No new partner allowed to disciple children. (Address one another's reasonable concerns, whatever they may be). You may need to sell outside assistance, and should do so if you do.

Do not exclude your children from everything to try to protect them. Keep them informed in an age appropriate, information appropriate, way. Again, seek outside help if you need to; church, friend or family, therapist, their teachers, etc. Encourage them to talk to you about how they're feeling, and listen to their concerns even if they seem still or understand. It's a scary and confusing time for them, be there when they need you to be. Make sure that you and their father will tell them the same thing when asked why you're divorcing (if they ask, and they very likely will). Pay attention to their behaviors, and if they are acting out, emotional, or behaving in a new way, don't ignore it. Do not parent out of guilt by buying them things, or allowing misbehavior. While you may be getting a divorce, you are still the same mother. 

There is no way to protect your children from all of the pain that the divorce will likely cause. There are numerous ways that you can make things as tolerable as possible. No matter what happens, never forget that children are NOT pawns to be used. Your children are THE priority in your situation. Everything you do throughout this process needs to be done with their best interests in mind. From where you live to the visitation arrangements, your childrens well-being is vital. 
Again, if at all possible, you should talk to your husband about the end of your marriage. He may be as unhappy as you are, and feel grateful that the marriage is coming to an end. It is easy for people online to say, "Tell him!" But, we do not know how he will react, and you do. Do you think that his reaction will be negative? Will he drain the bank accounts and hide any assets you may have? Will he react with screaming, threats, excessive anger? Only you have any real idea how he will take the news.

Right now, either of you could empty your accounts. If you file for a divorce, typically the court will consider all assets (real property, cars, collectibles, etc.) life insurance policies, credit cards, checking/savings accounts, and/or contacts as "binding" until the courts ruling. What that means is that no changes can be made to them that can be considered detrimental to one's spouse, especially without their knowledge or consent. If one of you emptied out there bank account, or maxed out a credit card, it could (depending on your state laws) be considered Contempt if Court; subject to fines, and possible jail time, or both.

So, to sum everything up:

* Talk to your husband if you can. 
If not, find a lawyer and file for divorce. 

The petition to divorce can be withdrawn at any time by you. Do not wait to file. If you wait, and he finds out and wants to be petty, legally he is not prevented from draining all of your joint accounts or machine or joint credit cards. You may be financially liable regardless of if you were aware of his actions or not.

If you file for a divorce, and he drains your accounts with the intent on punishing you, have your lawyer contact the Court. It is unlikely that you will financially liable for his actions. (Depending on your state's law's. Your lawyer can explain everything to you.)

Life insurance policies, health insurance, or other policies cannot be cancelled by either party, or changed. (Again, it can vary by state. You can Google what will happen in the filling of a divorce petition in your state).

* If you file you may feel the need to move sooner. Your home life may become intolerable, forcing you to move. This may land you in a home or neighborhood that is less than desirable. Or, in a home that doesn't meet your needs, is in the wrong area for your kids to continue in their school, or is unaffordable. 

* Waiting and saving money is a gray area. You are not in a volatile situation, or in fear of your or your childrens safety. Any money you have typically must be included during disclosure (in your divorce petition) and is not excluded just because you were trying to save money so that you could move. You can be held liable for any money that you have hidden. Telling the Court the money was a gift from a friend, or family member, is potentially problematic. If your STBX (or his lawyer, or the courts) proves that you lied, you will very likely be found in Contempt of Court. 

* Finding childcare now keeps you from settling for a subpar situation when you finally do move. 

* With a new baby on the way, spreading the move out over several months allows you find the best living situation possible for you and the children. Rushed or time-critical decisions may not be in the best interests of your finances, etc.

* You've been unhappy for years. Your husband had been aware of the marital problems for years. To your children, everything is happening NOW. They are not likely to understand that your decision to divorce had happened over time. Their entire world is changing. You understand it, they get likely don't. Regardless of how unhappy you are, they will need time to process what you think had been coming for years. Your first priority is to be their mother. Hold their hands and as gently as possible walk them through the divorce, and they will get through it (as best as possible). I'm sure that you will do the best that you can for them. Your posts do present you as a loving mother. Please, don't forget that, even if the divorce gets petty. 

* Talk to a lawyer. It is in your best interest to be as prepared as possible. Find out if you are allowed to save money, without disclosing it. Perhaps your lawyer could give you an estimate of how much financial support your husband would provide.

Hopefully somewhere in my novel-length reply I have provided you with helpful information. I realize much of the common sense advice you likely already know. You are welcome to heed the advice in whatever way works for you. Or, ignore it all if you choose to .😉

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

Sorry for any syntax, format, punctuation, and grammatical mistakes. My autocorrect is not always correct. 😉


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

KM87 said:


> Thanks for this reply. I appreciate your "hearing" me. Ultimately, I would love for the divorce papers to be a successful wake up call and testament to my seriousness in desiring change. With my baby coming in 6 weeks, I had wanted to delay everything while I navigate the first few months of newborn haze again, but I don't necessarily have to wait. My concern in serving divorce papers as a wake up call is that he may make the changes necessary for now*. But what happens when, a few years down the road, he reverts back to his workaholism? *I guess then I actually divorce him? I've been waiting for him to want to change, to want to be with us more, to want to lead our family in the life we talked about from the start. That's obviously not happening. But if he "changes" to avoid a divorce, it's only a matter of time before he reverts back, and then to threaten a divorce again feels less weighty and serious to me. And I don't believe divorce should be tossed around lightly ever. I'm so skeptical because he always just tells people what they want to hear. I believe that scenario would be no different. But I guess maybe that is more of a proper protocol to follow: papers served -> change made -> time passes -> old behaviors surface -> papers served -> actual divorce? Is that a better route?


Working on what ifs is not a good approach. Understand you are 50% of the marriage and need to be part of a working couple. Understand you both need to put each other first. It takes both to make this work. Understand that the wake up call my make your H turn that corner and be the H you desire. What if that happens?


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't understand where people are getting that she's "springing" this on him. I mean, he's known for years she's unhappy, she's asked him to leave twice and he's said he'll do so when he sees divorce papers.
> 
> So clearly divorce has already come up.
> 
> ...


What's there not to get?? By her own admission she is blind siding him. That's what people are reading and there are those who are not familiar with her other threads.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Benbutton said:


> What's there not to get?? By her own admission she is blind siding him. That's what people are reading and there are those who are not familiar with her other threads.


Umm, ok. So I suppose being asked to move out twice and then telling her he'd do it with divorce papers (mentioned in this thread) should in no way be a clue for him?

I don't know what else to tell you.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Umm, ok. So I suppose being asked to move out twice and then telling her he'd do it with divorce papers (mentioned in this thread) should in no way be a clue for him?
> 
> I don't know what else to tell you.


I honestly get what you are saying. But it's human nature to think that people are just "venting" or maybe it's her pregnancy hormones.

All too often people don't believe you until the wolves are at the door.

In principle your are 110% right, in reality however, I honestly believe that he will feel "blind-sided" especially since she is trying to be agreeable between now and August.

Lots of people (men especially) tend to take folks at face value. If there's no smoke, there's no fire.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

aquarius1 said:


> I honestly get what you are saying. But it's human nature to think that people are just "venting" or maybe it's her pregnancy hormones.
> 
> All too often people don't believe you until the wolves are at the door.
> 
> ...


That's reasonable. I'm sure my ex would claim he was blindsided, even though he's the one who brought up divorce first when I wouldn't rugsweep his *****. And in his mind he probably was..... because he truly didn't believe I would go anywhere. He figured it would be HIM that would pull the trigger and if he didn't then it wouldn't happen


It's true that her hb might feel this way, but it's not because he wasn't warned. He just chose to bury his head because things as they are work for him. It's actually quite selfish because the message he's really sending is that he's ok that his wife is unhappy as long as she doesn't leave. That's a horrible attitude for a married person to have and was my ex's attitude. Until I was done with him I thought about what made my ex happy all the time.

Your spouse and their happiness should be foremost in your life. One who requires divorce papers to worry about their spouse is poor partner material. I don't feel particularly bad for this guy. In fact, with the amount of time he spends "working" I wouldn't be surprised if he's got someone else.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Umm, ok. So I suppose being asked to move out twice and then telling her he'd do it with divorce papers (mentioned in this thread) should in no way be a clue for him?
> 
> I don't know what else to tell you.


So the ambush is a response to her having a credibility problem? Because she's tried twice so far and failed to get results? And these requests to move out happened before having the 3rd kid? Not sure of the timeframe at this point but maybe before even the second? 

It's just hard to get around the feeling that STBX was being used as a sperm donor, but most sperm donors get paid. STBX is accruing huge financial and time obligations. There is an inherent unfairness in that, in my opinion, regardless of how badly STBX has acted over the years.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> So the ambush is a response to her having a credibility problem? Because she's tried twice so far and failed to get results? And these requests to move out happened before having the 3rd kid? Not sure of the timeframe at this point but maybe before even the second?
> 
> It's just hard to get around the feeling that STBX was being used as a sperm donor, but most sperm donors get paid. STBX is accruing huge financial and time obligations. There is an inherent unfairness in that, in my opinion, regardless of how badly STBX has acted over the years.


If he's a sperm donor it's because he's acted like one.

He's chosen to limit his family time so how else would he be seen? Want to be valued by your family? Show up from time to time....be a presence in their life.

Besides...according to her she pays half anyway besides taking care of kids. So it seems to me that he's quite ok with being a sperm donor who pays half.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Benbutton said:
> 
> 
> > What's there not to get?? By her own admission she is blind siding him. That's what people are reading and there are those who are not familiar with her other threads.
> ...


Once again - by her own admission. There is nothing else to say, she said it herself in the first post. Things are being done in secret, behind his back - things she says shes doing. 

What you are doing is insinuating that he should see it coming. It's quite obvious he didn't as he had no problem getting her pregnant less than a year ago. Maybe he didn't because he foolishly chose to ignore her threats? Only he knows what he knows and judging from the post it is easier to assume he doesn't by what has been posted.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> If he's a sperm donor it's because he's acted like one.
> 
> He's chosen to limit his family time so how else would he be seen? Want to be valued by your family? Show up from time to time....be a presence in their life.
> 
> Besides...*according to her* she pays half anyway besides taking care of kids. So it seems to me that he's quite ok with being a sperm donor who pays half.


And according to my wife, until recently, all problems with intimacy in our relationship were my issue, my fault. When seeing only one side of a story (which is of course the norm on TAM), it makes sense to retain a bit of investigative cynicism when things seem a bit unusual. Going ahead with another kid, despite planning for a divorce, and not telling the "sperm donor", is a bit unusual.

It is rare that we throw ourselves under the bus here. There is a strong bias looking for validation of our side of the relationship. In my case, my wife had been (and still is somewhat) extraordinarily protective of a version of events that fits the narrative she would write. It bears little semblance to reality, and now that she's recognized that, her tune has changed pretty dramatically. But she would have been here spinning a story very different from what's gone on. Not saying OP has done so. Just saying... well, you know what I'm just sayin. The tough part is maintaining a dose of investigative skepticism while respecting... this is difficult... "victim" status?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KM87 said:


> I don't consider what this is to be a partnership. He has not met my needs since being married, including financial, as he has always insisted I "contribute" as if raising the kids nd managing everything in the home isn't contributing. He works from 6am til probably 11pm, on average - 2 jobs, 1 to help pay the bills and the other is the business he started without consulting me and which he intends to eventually be the only source of income. He doesn't ever take any days off to spend with us.
> 
> When we got married I made it clear I wanted four kids. He agreed, and he promised to raise my oldest as his own. I have the means to raise four kids without him and always have. I currently work three afternoons a week and pay a babysitter to be with the kids while I am gone. I have continued to work because at the beginning he required me to and as time went on, because I figured I would need a way to support my kids someday.
> 
> ...


How would working just 3 afternoons a week provide for you and 4 children?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I understand your frustration, but what really bothers me is that you purposefully had four children with this man, because that's what you wanted, knowing all along that he was not meeting your needs or being an attentive husband or father. Once you had your four children, you decided to wait until you are ready, after you got what you wanted and are comfortable enough to file for divorce. Despite the issues that your husband obviously has, you have used him in a most unkind manner and now you are continuing to do so. It's seems that he is a baby vending machine that has outlived its usefulness to you.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> I understand your frustration, but what really bothers me is that you purposefully had four children with this man, because that's what you wanted, knowing all along that he was not meeting your needs or being an attentive husband or father. Once you had your four children, you decided to wait until you are ready, after you got what you wanted and are comfortable enough to file for divorce. Despite the issues that your husband obviously has, you have used him in a most unkind manner and now you are continuing to do so. It's seems that he is a baby vending machine that has outlived its usefulness to you.


Something I didn't think about until now... if the husband is such an awful person, do you really want to be reminded of him each time you look at one of the kids you had with him? Also, wouldn't we be concerned that whatever makes someone troublesome might get passed on to the next generation?

If I were to split from my wife, my kids would forever be a reminder of the time I spent with her. 

More reasons why I think it *does* matter, when considering divorce, if you have kids with that person or not.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> Cynthia said:
> 
> 
> > I understand your frustration, but what really bothers me is that you purposefully had four children with this man, because that's what you wanted, knowing all along that he was not meeting your needs or being an attentive husband or father. Once you had your four children, you decided to wait until you are ready, after you got what you wanted and are comfortable enough to file for divorce. Despite the issues that your husband obviously has, you have used him in a most unkind manner and now you are continuing to do so. It's seems that he is a baby vending machine that has outlived its usefulness to you.
> ...


 @Casual Observer you have hit a new low. Frankly this is an inane argument. Sane parents don't stop loving their kids just because they may not like the other generic donor. 

As a Moderator..... Stop with the attacks of the OP. Last warning.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Adelais said:


> Too bad that it will take a divorce to make him be available to his children.


Why do you think he will be available to his children after the divorce? He already has a child who he ignores, as if that child doesn't exist. Once these children no longer live with him, they will never see him either, so their relationship with him will be even less than it already is.

I think it's important to recognize this going forward in order to prepare for what the future holds. You (op) have already been raising the children alone. It may improve when you don't have his chores to do as well as your own, but you won't get any help with the children from him.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Cynthia said:


> Why do you think he will be available to his children after the divorce? He already has a child who he ignores, as if that child doesn't exist. Once these children no longer live with him, they will never see him either, so their relationship with him will be even less than it already is.
> 
> I think it's important to recognize this going forward in order to prepare for what the future holds. You (op) have already been raising the children alone. It may improve when you don't have his chores to do as well as your own, but you won't get any help with the children from him.


I forgot about his other child. I don't remember if he or the OP insisted in the older child coming over until he/she began to make threats against their younger children.

He might very well not pursue a 50/50 custody plan, however if he does, he will have to spend some time with them on his days.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

KM87 said:


> Thanks for this reply. I appreciate your "hearing" me. Ultimately, I would love for the divorce papers to be a successful wake up call and testament to my seriousness in desiring change. With my baby coming in 6 weeks, I had wanted to delay everything while I navigate the first few months of newborn haze again, but I don't necessarily have to wait. My concern in serving divorce papers as a wake up call is that he may make the changes necessary for now. But what happens when, a few years down the road, he reverts back to his workaholism? I guess then I actually divorce him? I've been waiting for him to want to change, to want to be with us more, to want to lead our family in the life we talked about from the start. That's obviously not happening. But if he "changes" to avoid a divorce, it's only a matter of time before he reverts back, and then to threaten a divorce again feels less weighty and serious to me. And I don't believe divorce should be tossed around lightly ever. I'm so skeptical because he always just tells people what they want to hear. I believe that scenario would be no different. But I guess maybe that is more of a proper protocol to follow: papers served -> change made -> time passes -> old behaviors surface -> papers served -> actual divorce? Is that a better route?


It is possible that this could happen, but most people do not change until it becomes more difficult to stay with the status quo than to make changes. If he recognizes that it's not working for him anymore, he may actually make a permanent change. This is probably the only thing that might bring about change in him, but of course there are no guarantees. If you think this might be a possibility that he would have the wake up call that he needs, it may be in your best interests as well as the children to give him that chance. You can still retain an attorney and file, but back off if he asks for another chance.

From what you have written, you have tried to get him more involved, but he has not responded favorably. If he did respond favorably to you actually filing for divorce, it could be a whole new world for all of you, but I would highly recommend you find a competent counselor who can help keep the marriage on track if that happens. This could especially good if he becomes and involved parents. It would take stress off of you and give the children another parent they can rely on and build a relationship with. It may be worth a try, if (big if) he actually cares about his family at all, but you would need some guidelines in order to keep on the right track and make sure that his behaviors, not only about workaholicism, but also about how he speaks to you and treats you, become acceptable and he learns how to be a loving, involved husband and father. He can learn, but he would have to have guidance and put in the effort.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> @Casual Observer you have hit a new low. Frankly this is an inane argument. Sane parents don't stop loving their kids just because they may not like the other generic donor.
> 
> As a Moderator..... Stop with the attacks of the OP. Last warning.


My apologies. Didn't realize earlier warning was directed at me. Thank you for the warning.


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