# Perspective Needed: I wrote this letter to my wife



## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

I just wrote this (450am now). I am planning on giving it to her, and hopefully we can come out the other side successful. There will be a related post about my suspicions on her cheating in the Men's Lounge.

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I know you are not happy in our relationship so lets not beat around the bush anymore and have a candid, open and honest conversation about what is really going on. All cards on the table. Here is my start.

I love you. I am in love with you. I feel shutout and don’t know where to start. Its 345am on a Thursday night, Friday morning and I have been awake since you came to bed at 145am. People change over time. People grow. There are phases in life and relationships. Most importantly relationships are a partnership. A team. Right now, I don’t feel like a team. Specifically for our relationship. Over the past couple/few weeks i have been evaluating how I interact with you, what I give you, what I give the family, how I feel. I wanted to understand what I did to contribute / cause the feeling of being smothered. Let’s just face it, there has been a wedge between us. Using your words “breaking the unbreakable bond”. 

After our son was born and we recovered from settling into a routine, I practically begged you, no. I did beg you, for us to get a baby sitter so we could go out as a couple and have couple time. This was no end of frustration or disagreement between us, the core being you didn’t want some stranger looking after our kids. After six months, I gave up trying to get one on one time with you. It was clear the children were a priority over our relationship.

I went on a trip to (city redacted) in 2010 and didn’t call you for a couple of days and when I came back and we had a talk. I was reaching out for help. I was saying – hey – I have an emotional need that was getting met outside the marriage. I believe I used the words “I was sitting at the sushi bar and ended up talking with this random woman. I found myself enjoying the conversation and I would like discuss”. Unfortunately we got into a fight, emotions flared and there were things said. Apologies came afterwards, however it was still said. In my recent efforts to figure out where I am at, I believe this is appropriate description: A relationship between a person and someone other than (their) spouse (or lover) that has an impact on the level of intimacy, emotional distance and overall dynamic balance in the marriage. This was taken from the definition of Emotional Affair (EA). This happened by chance, not intention. It was never my intention to cause emotional distance in our relationship. Never. In fact, I wanted to discuss how we got to this point. We. You told me if it were not for the kids, you would have left. I feel this is unresolved between us and a significant factor. 

In the fall of 2010 our daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and this has caused a whole upheaval in our life. Everything changed. I know we have had one or two lunch/movie dates when your sister or dad could look after the kids for a couple of hours. I re-attempted to find an external to the family caregiver now that the children are old enough to tell us what happens. Again, I am met with we cant just have anybody.

Early December 2012. There were court papers served from the ‘lingering issue’ as we have called it. 
April 2013. The process server attempting to serve the papers. After this occurred I was taken back by one of our conversations. Specifically that if I could go somewhere where “they” couldn’t find me, you want me to be happy and would be willing to let me go there. Severing ties with you and the kids. Yes, we talked through this as it was just that you wanted to see me happy and you would be willing to do anything for me to be happy.

What I don’t understand is why everything changed three weeks ago. After scheduling your dr. appointment and it becoming ‘real’ seemed to be the timing of when you felt smothered. You have identified that you go through phases of feeling smothered, and at 4:15am the only pattern that I see about being smothered is when it comes to making a serious decision about a surgery.

So as of three weeks ago and you informing me that you feel smothered, and me stepping back, things have changed. It feels very different. In my self evaluation of how I contributed/caused the smothering I have educated myself and trying to figure out where I fit in. I asked lots of random questions to figure out where I stood which you were patient with me about answering. We had many conversations on different topics like me not feeling like I am priority to you, which i did not feel heard, listened to or acknowledged. The responses were “you are being ridiculous”. “that’s absurd”. “where did that come from”. Basically dismissive of how I and am feeling. When I asked about the smothering, you said you had gotten past it. Great. When I raised the I want a date, and was told that I had two years of being in my office. All I had to do is come out and we could have had one. I feel shutout and that our relationship is not a priority. 

I have stepped up and prioritized our relationship and you above all else. Yes, I prioritized work over our relationship and family. Last year was hell at work, especially the 2nd half of 2012 working 16 hours a day about 6 days a week. I was giving myself so we could have a comfortable home. 

Lets talk about sex. In our almost ten years together you have known to the day the last time we had sex, until ‘the talk about smothering’. Last Thursday, 30 May we were in bed. I knew you just had a yeast infection and I knew your period was coming. I suggested we make love, to which you responded we just did. I was the one to point out the last time we made love was 20th May. I get it. Relationships go through phases. When we first met, I was upfront that I have a high sex drive. This is by choice.

I would like to repair our relationship and will do whatever it takes to do so.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Ladies, if your H sent this to you - what would you do? is it too pointed with using "your" and pushing things onto the W rather than "I feel" type of statements...

i need some help. please.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> Good morning!
> 
> Not to be harsh, but if I was a frustrated wife, this letter would leave me even more frustrated and pissed off.
> 
> The reason is because you took the two most important details of the letter and buried them with a good amount of passivity, a complete lack of a vision and pretty much handed your wife a huge plate of "I'm unhappy, you fix it."


i can see that perspective. couldnt see it at 5am, but now after a coffee.



FrenchFry said:


> *You had a brief EA and you are getting divorced and you would like to do what you can to rectify this.* That is the (should be) the main point of the letter and it's buried in so many details and sidetracks that it honestly took me about three read-throughs to get to that point.


she has not come out and asked for divorce. 



FrenchFry said:


> So, the first paragraph should read "I am not happy in our relationship" and then details of your feelings in a concise manner. You have a good start on it, it's just scattered all over the letter which makes it hard to focus. "I feel like you are dismissing my feelings, I am not a priority and we have a significant lack of bonding which is expressing itself in our sex life."


got it.



FrenchFry said:


> I feel like you need to make your own plan of what you are going to do to try to improve the relationship on your end and stop trying to get your wife to dance around with you.


this hit home. i have a number of things tied to the relationship and specifically for 'just me'.



FrenchFry said:


> Since you seem to be getting divorced and your wife is saying you are smothering her, stop smothering her straight up. Go out. Take your kids out by yourself. Go workout and go to dinner by yourself and with your children.


The workout program i ordered should have been here 2 days ago. Re kids - yup.



FrenchFry said:


> Be available to listen to what she is saying, but the minute the dismissive verbiage starts up again, you should make it clear in your letter you will not tolerate it any more.


so, like other men. i suck at debates in real time with my wife.



FrenchFry said:


> I get that sex is important to you, but I don't see how you expect to have sex with an emotionally distant wife who is not really willing to budge on that distance...which is why you probably again need to focus on you for a minute to create enough space so you can both decide what you want to do.


ok



FrenchFry said:


> To be honest, however, it sounds like your wife already wants out and is just being hesitant because of your family life.


i would agree.



FrenchFry said:


> So, stop giving her these little emotional macaroons, stop the conversations and lay out exactly what you want your relationship to look like, what you can and are going to do to get there and the ultimate consequences of both of you not working together to get there are.


got it.



FrenchFry said:


> In short your letter, if you send it, needs to be shorter, less strewn with emotional details and more action-oriented to get more of a response.


i will take another pass on it. thank you.

I found another thread here about the same concept, man writing to his wife about no sex for one year. This one: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/75873-draft-letter-wife-female-feedback-appreciated.html

i have read that as well and will pull some of the feedback in.

Thank you for taking the time to comment.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> No problem. I had a couple cups of coffee before I replied as well.
> 
> I assumed you were getting divorced because of the serving papers thing. Would this issue effect the meat of your letter?


The papers were the 'ex wifes' way of inviting me back to court.

This is marriage #2.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Ah...yeah. I wouldn't keep that in there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah.... Definetly would leave that out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

sorry for the rant/disjoint post.

So a few days ago i setup a 'date night' for last night (Friday night). She worked all day, came home. We had previously agreed to have pizza for dinner - Friday is pizza night. After coming home and having dinner she had a nap on the couch. After waking up she called over each of our two kids one by one asking for hugs and kisses and loves. Where was my invite you ask? notta. So i get a little put out at this point.

She was constantly stating how tired she was after her nap and how she should just go to bed. after saying this like 15 times i looked at her and said, if our relationship is not important to you then go to bed. i got dressed to go out and sat on the deck. She eventually came out, scorned me for 'behaving this way' in front of the kids. I said and what about how i feel, right. that is not a priority. She stepped back and said, well maybe we need to talk about whatever this is rather than date night. I agreed.

time roll forward.

I start with how i feel pushed away. Told her that i did the 5 love language test and it described how i need love (physical, then quality time). And i highlighted how i have asked and attempted to do everything to get those things. Cant make someone WANT to touch you. she became defensive and asked why all of a sudden - to which i said you pushed me away when you said you were smothered. And since then i have trying to figure out what i have been doing that would have contributed to that. Funny, the first time we talked about it she said it was "everything. the surgery. the kids". This time we talked about it and it was about her explaining to me about how i account for her time. (15 min 7-11 run vs. an hour). She became angry and told me to 'give her a ****ing break, she has menopause'. She doesnt normally swear. As we were talking through EN and boundaries she asked me where i was getting the information. I said the internet, to which she 'dismissed' it as that is just information and what matters is between us. I get that relationships are between at least two people, by the time family has approval etc. it is more. Anyway, i dont think she likes the fact i am 'becoming aware/educated'. 

i brought up a boundary of having personal conversations with opposite sex outside the marriage. She was raised with keeping personal things at home, so why does it matter which friend she confides in. I said it does. We then talked through reverse, me confiding personal issues in a woman. She said if they are just friends, what does it matter. I said it does. We talked through an example. Then i said, change the dynamic. If the friend is a SINGLE of the opposite sex, that is inappropriate. To which the outcome of 'are all guys pigs'? i said yes. Singles will do anything.

So the next thing we talked about was how i USED to be a flirt. I thought i was/am still a bit of, and then started pondering what 'actions' and 'who i interact with' that could perceive it that way. there hasnt been anyone like for years - when she pointed it out and i agreed that i would stop. Was not doing it consciously and had always been a bit of a flirt. So she says to me, so i should be able to flirt for 10 years right? I like seriously, eye for an eye? So here i am thinking start with flirt end with affair. great. this is so petty.

I related that i have EN that are not being met - tied to 5LL of Physical and Quality Time. She says if you are not getting what you need from me then you need to decide to that. I said so here i am talking about what i need and you are saying take it or leave it? to which the back peddling from her was well i want to grow together. 

I said that another EN is that i dont feel like we are partners. we are not a team. To which she talked about ALL her past relationships being controlling. I said, so am I controlling? Is this relationship like that? she said no - but she "sees herself recreating that controlling relationship". wtf. I said, I am not like that. She said that she feels watched over and her every move is watched. and we talked through this a bit. (see thread in the Coping with Infidelity).

I asked her for HER help on how to rekindle the passion in our relationship.

it was late, we went to bed - together. cuddled (thats it). (slept clothed - normal).

So this morning. She has been discussing her need for privacy for a few weeks (right around the smothered talked btw). I know she was going into the bath and was trying to create a special moment. Not sex, just a moment to keep her thinking about me all day. So i walk into OUR bedroom, say 'hey babe' and she says, under her breath - sheesh I cant even get a moment of privay. I 180 and close the door hard. a few minutes go by and she comes out and asks me to come and talk with her. She starts in on me about her privacy and how she is always interrupted. That evolved into "thanks, you just ruined my day". and i responded with "so, me wanting to do something special for you ruined your day." and walked away. about 3 mins later she comes out to get something from downstairs and i follow her. we talk again, she says she never gets any privacy and needs her privacy and that she was "already late". I said, i wasnt clock watching and dont know what time it is. "well, i am late." i said, so because i wanted to create a moment for us, i ruined your day AND invaded your privacy. She said she was getting ready for work and in a rush. I am thinking - 2 ****ings. you cant make me a priority for 2 mins. So i responded with - you will get ALL the privacy you need from me. As she was getting her shoes on to go out the door, she said she that with all the interruptions while she is in the bathroom applying makeup, going the toilet, in the bath, getting dressed she has no privacy.

my emotional reaction is to tell her to move out and she can have all the privacy she needs and figure out wth she wants.

my negative reaction is that she is looking for a way out.

my hopeful reaction is she is working through stuff in her head with new job, menopause, family, ME.

not sure of the relevance. i haven't seen her naked in ~ 6 years except when i 'come into the bathroom and she is in the bath'. Which she usually has bubble covering anything anyway.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

When you stop chasing, she will stop running.

When you start running, she will start chasing.

She is cheating on you, I think you know that. Not from this post, but from your others. She has time for the things she wants to have time for, everything else impinges on the things she wants to have time for.

You pulled a 180 and slammed the door. That is not the 180. The 180 is not anger, it is indifference. Confident, pleasant indifference. It is NOT engaging with her.

Buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and put it in her car. Buy another for a spot in the house where she is likely to talk on the phone when you are not around. You will find out about her affair within a week or two. Or else you will find out it's all in your head. Either way, then you will be in a better position to move forward.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

By the way, that conversation you had with her is just a bunch of useless babble.

She has time for all of her male friends, not for you.

You need time and sex, put up or shut up. Marriage involves having sex with each other. It's part of the deal.

Are you serious that you haven't even seen her naked in six years?


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> By the way, that conversation you had with her is just a bunch of useless babble.
> 
> She has time for all of her male friends, not for you.
> 
> ...


yes. i am serious.

re time for her male friends - yeap. that is kind the whole driver behind making me a priority.

i think the next stage of the conversation needs to be "what does this relationship mean to you. and what are you willing to do to keep it."


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> When you stop chasing, she will stop running.
> 
> When you start running, she will start chasing.
> 
> ...


I have started the "180" stuff already. so after the 'conversation' this morning, we had a kids soccer game. She came home and we (family) left When she came home she was 'soliciting' hugs and kisses from the kids. i was indifferent. didnt react, nothing verbal or even visual. w/e. after we get to the soccer game and just before we get out of the car, she gives me this "lingering kiss". so she took our daughter to get medicine, and they come back near the end of the game (an hour). i didnt ask, prod, peek, show any interest in. in fact our daughter came up to me while W was still in the car. I called her and asked her if she was going to join us. when W started talking about all the things she did i was like. ok. w/e. she interrupted me to say that she had run to these other places for these reasons. "uh, ok. see ya in bit". Didnt say ILY back to her.

get home and she makes a point of coming up to me to give me a big hug and kiss and look me in the eyes to say ILY.

Where the hell was this woman last night.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

i forgot to mention that in this dire need for privacy this morning, after she dropped us (family) off at the house. she goes to the main bathroom and leaves the door wide open.

i just dont get it.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh boy, this reads like my soon to be over marriage.

The first letter you wrote... keep it. Like your own journal.
My advice to you is --- don't timeline all the mistakes you have both made. Your letter is very blaming. 

Does it really really truly matter? If you want to work on things, start fresh. You both have resentments.

You are going in the right direction. Trying to establish boundaries.
It won't be a one time conversation. It will take time. 

Other pointers:
-don't take everything so literally and personally. Things are going to change, moment to moment, as you both either get rid of resentment, or start thinking about the future
-Consider reading a few books. The Gifts of Imperfection, MMSL

-Start working on yourself. This is a big big thing. It means you stop judging everything someone else does or says... and you take FULL responsibility for your actions and direction. Let everyone else find their own way in life. You need to know WHO you are, what you want in life, and what kind of person you want to be. 

Side note:
I'm a Type 1, many many years. My 22yr old son was dx in Dec 2012. Chronic illness and the momma bear syndrome. I'm learning about that myself.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

deejov said:


> Oh boy, this reads like my soon to be over marriage.


thank you for taking the time to respond, and i am sorry to here about your soon to be over marriage.



deejov said:


> The first letter you wrote... keep it. Like your own journal.
> My advice to you is --- don't timeline all the mistakes you have both made. Your letter is very blaming.
> 
> Does it really really truly matter? If you want to work on things, start fresh. You both have resentments.


yeah, i get it. 'turn the page', 'fresh sheet', ...



deejov said:


> You are going in the right direction. Trying to establish boundaries.
> It won't be a one time conversation. It will take time.


definately wont be a one time conversation.



deejov said:


> Other pointers:
> -don't take everything so literally and personally. Things are going to change, moment to moment, as you both either get rid of resentment, or start thinking about the future
> -Consider reading a few books. The Gifts of Imperfection, MMSL


i have started looking at books and am putting a list together.



deejov said:


> -Start working on yourself. This is a big big thing. It means you stop judging everything someone else does or says... and you take FULL responsibility for your actions and direction. Let everyone else find their own way in life. You need to know WHO you are, what you want in life, and what kind of person you want to be.


i broke the codependency. i dont drive, so getting around is a little more difficult, esp. w/ 2 kids. so i have been just going out and doing things with the kids and of course we love it. As example, we were walking past a barber shop and my son needed a hair cut. W had been "planning to call" the hairdresser we normally use for weeks. So I took him in and did it. Looking at the 5LL, hers is definitely more on the acts of service, so the hair cut struck home. Anyway, the workout program i ordered should have been here a couple of days ago, and customer service is not open until tomorrow. I am picking up on other interest that i had and am now making time for them.



deejov said:


> Side note:
> I'm a Type 1, many many years. My 22yr old son was dx in Dec 2012. Chronic illness and the momma bear syndrome. I'm learning about that myself.


that is pretty recent dx, sorry to hear about that.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

You broke the codependency, but your posts read to me like:
-You did the duck and cover for a couple of years, had an EA, hid at work for awhile, while very serious stuff was going on at home
-Now you want her attention, and she feels smothered

This is kinda harsh, but I think you may want to consider how to gain back her respect as her husband, support partner, and equal.
She's got enough responsibilities on her plate, without having to worry about your sudden needs for attention.

It's possible, it just won't happen overnight.

Make some small goals for your relationship.
Defined actions that you can do. Specific.
Be careful with what you choose.

I'd also suggest having a family meeting.
Go over ALL the things that need to be done to keep the house running. Involve the kids. Make sure everyone knows that as a family, you work together to get stuff done. 

I mention this because looking after a T1 requires a lot of discipline, scheduling, and you never get a day off. Ever. (my parents told me this lots). Your wife may be in serious momma bear mode, and NOT willing to give up taking care of everything all by herself. Now, she may feel like you just want another piece of her time, and she doesn't have any. I've felt this way about my husband. It's not very romantic, at all.


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