# Just found out my wife's emotional affair was also physical. Don't know what to do!!?



## shecheatedVA

My wife and I were college sweethearts. We met early during collwge and have been together since then. We have been married for 10 years, have 3 wonderful kids, good jobs, nice house, good emotional and physical bond. We love each other extremely.

I knew that she had talked to another guy (15 years back in college) during a rough patch in our relationship. I had known about that and at that time she swore to me it was ONLY talking. I never knew how much talking there was but thought it was not that much. He was there for her, listened to her, told her how beautiful/smart, etc she was. He gave her what I wasn't able to from an emotional standpoint. When this happenned, I realized that I owned some of it since I was going through some personal issues which caused me to shut her out. I experienced some heavy trauma during childhood and was dealing with that which made me unavailable for her emotionally. The guy she talked to was a friend of a friend. This guy was a complete loser. Fat, alcoholic, drug abuser, slob who had nothing going for him. He was a complete loser but read quite a bit and acted like a wanna be intellect. I saw through his bull**** but others like my wife couldn't. One night while I was out of town on business, she ended up giving him a ride home. My wife swears nothing happenned that night and all they did was talk. That was when they exchanged numbers and the emotional affair began.

Fast forward a few months (15 years back when I still didn't know anything was going on), I intercept a phone call where I hear him asking her how she could stay with me and after all they had. As expected, I went ape **** and started freaking out. She confessed that they had been talking and like I mentioned it was only an emotional affair. I forgave her and we moved on with our lives.

Back to the present... A few months back, after some heavy drinking I asked my wife if she had ever cheated on me. She looked at me and confessed that the guy she had an emotional affair was also physical. I made her tell me all the details and she confessed to sleeping with him 3 times. How could she to that us? How could she do that with him? My life completely broke down hearing that. It was like getting hit in the groin by a bag of bricks. I couldn't believe it. I drilled for more questions and she has been pretty open describing everything from when/how it happenned to sex positions etc. I thought I had to know these things but now I can't stop replaying the story over and over again. I'm having a hard time sleeping, can't concentrate at work, have had a quick temper with my kids. Life is in a tailspin.

She swears that she's given me the entire truth. She was very fragile and felt alone in the world. He talked to her and lightened up the heavy burden of dealing with me and I was going through my own hell. She said she never loved him. She said she didn't even find him physically appealing. She just feed off his words. They allowed her to escape her life and feel free. The affair lasted ~6 weeks. They talked for a few weeks on the phone (daily), then he met her after class for a few weeks where it started to get physical (kissing, touching, rubbing). The last 2 weeks of the affair she had sex with him. She says this has completely destroyed her on the inside. Destroyed her psyche. It wasn't within her character to do that and it has broken her and question herself. She's had to deal with keeping this secret and it has eaten at her soul daily. I want to believe her cause I love her so much. The reason she didn't tell me was she didn't want to hurt me knowing how fragile and hurt I already by my past. She seems authentically sorry about it. She swears the physical/sexual is what caused her to turn back to me. She realized how much she loved me. She said once the emotional turned physical, it made her realize what a big mistake she had made. She saw how immature her thinking was and that I meant everything to her.

My problem is that I'm not sure if I can get past this. It consumes all of my thoughts. Our marriage has been good for 10 years. She's a great wife and an awesome mother. She's there for me emotionally. We communicate really well and enjoy each other's company. She's my best friend as I am hers. We love each other very much. Like most couples it not complete bliss but overall very good.

There are days where I think I can get past this and others where I want to leave and start over again. She pleads that she doesn't want her life to be defined by this single act which was completely out of character. She wants to make us work and part of me does as well. I don't want to hurt my kids but I don't want this to eat me up inside for the rest of my life. I don't know what I should do. Is she telling me the complete truth? Should I stay or get out? Females - does this sound legitimate? Is what she telling me something plausible?

TL;DR: Wife confessed an emotional affair 15 years back was also physical when we were still in college. Knew about the emotional. Just found out about the physical. They had an affair for 6-8 weeks in which she had sex 3 times. I don't know what to do. Should I stay or go?


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## Summer4744

She cheated. It wasn't one act. It was three acts that you know of along with the EA.

This is really difficult, but don't let her off with the " I was only trying to protect you line." To mislead you into thinking you had a trusting relationship that you could build a stable family around was beyond selfish. She was only thinking about herself. 

If she had come clean when it happened that is one thing, but if your wife could lie to your face for 15 years what does that tell you. I'm not saying you should leave her, just that your relationship was built on a lie. And if you want to move forward, you will have to scrap what you have and rebuild from the ground up with your wife.

Best wishes!


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## keko

Your marriage is a sham, built on lies and deceit. How you proceed should only depend on how much you respect yourself and nothing else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

I hate to bring this up - but does her getting pregnant coincide with the timing of the affair?

Basically she has let you live a lie for the last 15 years. You now have a decision to make. Would you have divorced her if you found out about the PA when it happened?

It is your choice now. She made her choice to have sex with OM and lie to you about it. The ball is in your court. Can you forgive her or not?


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## Broken at 20

So the past 15 years of your marriage were a lie...

Maybe you should pulla 180, and take a week off from your wife (not to date around) but to figure out what you really want in life. 

Imagine your future, what you see, what you want.
Then see if you can imagine a wife fitting into that. 
Then see if you can fit your current wife into that. 

Because if you can't, divorce is probably the option. 

What scares me, is she says how this affair destroyed her psyche, her mind, ate her insides...

So how did she put up with this for 15 years? 
That is what really worries me.


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## tom67

keko said:


> Your marriage is a sham, built on lies and deceit. How you proceed should only depend on how much you respect yourself and nothing else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you sure your kids are yours DNA them so you don't drive yourself nuts wondering.


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## jameskimp

Personally, if a person really loved me, they could not lie to me for 15 straight years. Don't believe the "I wanted to spare your feelings" bit one second. She didn't do it for you, she lied to protect herself. 

The sex was so bad that she did it 3 times huh? 

More than likely what happened was the OM got what she wanted (SEX) after 6 weeks and so after using her, he dumped her, and you were the backup plan for the next 15 years. 

If you do stay with her, you have a huge emotional hurdle to overcome that not many people could.


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## shecheatedVA

Summer4744 said:


> She cheated. It wasn't one act. It was three acts that you know of along with the EA.
> 
> This is really difficult, but don't let her off with the " I was only trying to protect you line." To mislead you into thinking you had a trusting relationship that you could build a stable family around was beyond selfish. She was only thinking about herself.
> 
> If she had come clean when it happened that is one thing, but if your wife could lie to your face for 15 years what does that tell you. I'm not saying you should leave her, just that your relationship was built on a lie. And if you want to move forward, you will have to scrap what you have and rebuild from the ground up with your wife.
> 
> Best wishes!


Exactly! I stated the same thing when she said that. I said it was 3 mistakes. I asked why she kept going back to have sex after the first time if she realized it was a mistake. Her reply was she thought there was something more there. He had fed her all these words and she felt connected. She said she thought the first time was just awkward because it was the first time. She thought it would get better but says the more it happened the more she realized it was a mistake and wanted me.

I feel like our relationship is built on a lie too. Had I known the truth back then, I 100,000% would have left her. I feel jaded cause she's telling me know. Know when have built a life and brought 3 innocent children into this world.


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## Broken at 20

She said she didn't even find him attractive yet had sex with him 3x...

I call BS on that.

And she said it destroyed her soul to not tell you everyday. For 15 years...
At that time line, she shouldn't even have a soul left...

So she is hiding A LOT!!!


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## shecheatedVA

tom67 said:


> Are you sure your kids are yours DNA them so you don't drive yourself nuts wondering.


The kids are mine. I'm sure of that. We dated for another 5 years and then got married. Have been married for the last 10. Had kids once we got married. Unless she was secretly seeing him behind my back, I'm pretty confident they are mine.


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## costa200

Well, this is why you dump women on the spot, no matter how much they claim it was "only" emotional, like that makes a difference. This Sh!t haunts you forever. Just like this guy, who made the question 15 years later and did not like the answer. 

OP, i know this is hard to hear, but DNA test your kids. At least to verify that wasn't a lie too.


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## shecheatedVA

keko said:


> Your marriage is a sham, built on lies and deceit. How you proceed should only depend on how much you respect yourself and nothing else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel like I married under false pretenses. Had I known about the cheating I wouldn't have married her for sure. I think the marriage itself is authentic. We loved and cared for each other (at least from my perspective). She's a great mother and a very supporting wife. I'd like to believe that what she's told me - that was COMPLETELY out of character for her and that she was a young, dumb, immature girl who didn't understand how much she really loved me, is the truth. 

I respect myself very highly which is causing me to question if I should stay or leave. I feel like a played out chump who go duped. I never strayed even though I had opportunities. My love and commitment including the thought of hurting her never got me even remotely close. Now I'm wondering if all that was wasted for nothing?


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## tom67

shecheatedVA said:


> The kids are mine. I'm sure of that. We dated for another 5 years and then got married. Have been married for the last 10. Had kids once we got married. Unless she was secretly seeing him behind my back, I'm pretty confident they are mine.


you didn't think she had a pa also but she did.Sorry but cheaterspeak if it was 3 times that means atleast 6 times or more how long was the affair?


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## Broken at 20

Can you get the marriage anulled under these circumstances? Any family lawyers here that can tell us this?

If you really want to get out of this, it involves:

Pulling a 180
Working on yourself
Filing for Divorce by yesterday
Staying on good terms with your kids
Putting the house up for sale
And telling your stbxw you won't stand for this sh!t


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## shecheatedVA

jameskimp said:


> Personally, if a person really loved me, they could not lie to me for 15 straight years. Don't believe the "I wanted to spare your feelings" bit one second. She didn't do it for you, she lied to protect herself.
> 
> The sex was so bad that she did it 3 times huh?
> 
> More than likely what happened was the OM got what she wanted (SEX) after 6 weeks and so after using her, he dumped her, and you were the backup plan for the next 15 years.
> 
> If you do stay with her, you have a huge emotional hurdle to overcome that not many people could.


Again..EXACTLY what I thought. If it was bad the first time why did you go back 2 more times. She says she didn't want to believe that it was because it was the first time. She stated that she had an emotional connection with him. He made her feel special, beautiful, smart, perfect..something that I couldn't because I was in my own hell. 

I said some mean things like pointing out she got played worse than I did. That she was a cum dumpster for him (I regret using those words now but I did out of anger). I called her a fiddle who got used.

I thought so much more of her. How in the hell did she sleep with him after 4 weeks of just talking!!!?? He never even took her out. Just talked on the phone and met her after class. 

She says it's cause she was in a bad place. Had really low self esteem and filled that gap for her. He made her feel special and light where as my problems through earlier childhood trauma were just too heavy and real.


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## DavidWYoung

I think you should stay and work it out. The movies will stay in your head, you are going to have to work with them, not against them. It is going to take a long time for you to get to the point were you will be ok with it. I know. You will not be starting a new life with your wife, but you will be starting a new way to interact with each other. She must be honest with you, no matter what! You must be her MAN and work toward a much better relationship. There are no winner or losers, no better or worse, no sluk or saint, just a man and a woman trying to make it in this world.Good luck, I think you two are going to be ok!


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## Broken at 20

That doesn't change the fact that he built his life ontop of quicksand, and now it is all sinking. 

Dude, you are just getting of this and your emotions are going to be too raw to really digest. 
I would suggest filing simply because if you decide to stick it out, you an stop the proceedings. But if you decide you want to be out and free, you won't have to sit around and wait for the divorce to be finalized. 

But you need to figure out what you truly want. Because your emotions are going to be raw for a few weeks before you can figure it out.


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## costa200

> I said some mean things like pointing out she got played worse than I did. That she was a cum dumpster for him (I regret using those words now but I did out of anger). I called her a fiddle who got used.


Well, honesty somethings isn't pretty!


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## Summer4744

Shecheated. Tough spot brother. How is your wife doing? Does she show true remorse? Or is she just afraid of losing you?

Let me say a few things. 

There is no building on a rotten foundation. Your marriage was based on a lie. No matter what you two do your life will be forever burdened by this and that is no small thing she did to you. 

DO NOT let her minimize what she did! By not being honest with you 15 years ago she prevented you from having a normal and loving relationship with your current wife or some other woman who was in your destiny.

The last thing you want to do is to try to patch up something that is broken and will haunt you forever. I have seen this happen with many friends. 

From my experience the best thing to do is to separate and see if there is enough there to start anew. If there is great. You will be starting on a new foundation built on trust. But if you don't do this and just try to tough it out for the kids or because you are afraid of change you will slowly destroy yourself and your marriage.

Give her the 180 and take some time for yourself until the answers start coming to you.


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## anchorwatch

First, sorry you were in the dark for so long. Even though it was so long ago, it's like it happened just when you found out. 

Second, I suggest you do not make any life decisions while your emotions are high on the roller coaster! It will take a lot of insight and soul searching before you decide what you need to do. Think this out with your head, not your anger. Do allow yourself and your family the time to do this. 

Am I correct? This happened 15 years ago, during a rough time in your relationship? You're married 10 years now, with 3 children. This was five years before you got married? Have your married years been good?

Have you had any counselling for yourself or both if you, since you found out? Have you read any books on how to handle infidelity in a marriage?


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## shecheatedVA

anchorwatch said:


> First, sorry you were in the dark for so long. Even though it was so long ago, it's like it happened just when you found out.
> 
> Second, I suggest you do not make any life decisions while your emotions are high on the roller coaster! It will take a lot of insight and soul searching before you decide what you need to do. Think this out with your head, not your anger. Do allow yourself and your family the time to do this.
> 
> Am I correct? This happened 15 years ago, during a rough time in your relationship? You're married 10 years now, with 3 children. This was five years before you got married? Have your married years been good?
> 
> Have you had any counselling for yourself or both if you, since you found out? Have you read any books on how to handle infidelity in a marriage?


Yes this happenned 15 years ago. We dated for 5 more years and have been married for 10 years. I agree I don't want to make any permanent life decisions based off of anger and hurt. The married years have been good overall. Like most marriages, there have been ups and downs but overall good. We love each other and enjoy each other's company. 

We have begun counseling. Individual and together which seems to be helping. At the very least, it's a good venue to feel safe and say what needs to be said. 

She had read After the Affair. I've read a few chapters and they seem to touch on many of the feelings that I'm experiencing. I'm just too tore up to sit down and focus on womehting for any extended period of time. My therapist recommends I read that too.


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## Will_Kane

An interested guy came along and your wife decided to see if he was better for her than you. He wasn't. She decided you were the one for her. She didn't tell you probably because she knew she would lose you if she did. It's obvious from what you remember of their conversation that she was done with him, although it's also obvious she was lying to him and leading him on also, probably telling him she liked him more than you, thus he couldn't believe she was still with you.

It doesn't seem fair that her lies got her what she wanted at your "expense." It also seems that it didn't work out all that bad for you - prior to this little slip of the tongue of hers, you have been completely happy with your marriage, your wife, your kids, your life. I would recommend not throwing away an otherwise happy life over this. Try to work it out with your wife. Seek counseling and make sure you get one you like.


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## walkonmars

Proof is in the pudding.

You have had 10 years of pudding.
By your own words she has been everything a man would want in a wife from the day you married. 

She cheated. Not once, three times. It hurts - not doubt. She lied about it - again no doubt. 

What has shed done since she MADE VOWS to be faithful?
Has she been faithful as far as you know? Has she given you any doubt? ANY doubt at all?

Do you love her? Does she love you?

Would you be happy 10 years from now knowing you 'got yours' because of transgressions she made BEFORE she vowed to be your life's faithful companion?

She could have continued to perpetuate the lie. She didn't. 

Is she a vile person for having done what she did? I think - once you overcome the shock of finding out that your wife displayed her weak human side you'll come to the conclusion that she's a human very capable of making poor life decisions. 

Me - I would forgive. Forgive and be thankful that you have a solid marriage. Built on something less than total truth - yes but a solid marriage none the less. 

Get yourself to a counselor. If you are religious meditate on what your life has been and what you want it to be.


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## Chaparral

This may sound odd to you but you need to find an Individual counselor that knows how to deal with PTSD.

You were in a bad place as was she. I suspect at the time you weren't thinking about marriage and neither was she. I assume you were not engaged and may hae been on the verge of breaking up anyway.

Cosidering you have children and have been happy things have actually worked out better for you than most people.

Why did you ask her about infidelity in the first place? Do you suspect her now?


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## shecheatedVA

Summer4744 said:


> Shecheated. Tough spot brother. How is your wife doing? Does she show true remorse? Or is she just afraid of losing you?
> 
> Let me say a few things.
> 
> There is no building on a rotten foundation. Your marriage was based on a lie. No matter what you two do your life will be forever burdened by this and that is no small thing she did to you.
> 
> DO NOT let her minimize what she did! By not being honest with you 15 years ago she prevented you from having a normal and loving relationship with your current wife or some other woman who was in your destiny.
> 
> The last thing you want to do is to try to patch up something that is broken and will haunt you forever. I have seen this happen with many friends.
> 
> From my experience the best thing to do is to separate and see if there is enough there to start anew. If there is great. You will be starting on a new foundation built on trust. But if you don't do this and just try to tough it out for the kids or because you are afraid of change you will slowly destroy yourself and your marriage.
> 
> Give her the 180 and take some time for yourself until the answers start coming to you.


I will be taking some time to be by myself. Get into some short term rental so I can sort out my feelings and intent. The thing is when I'm away I replay the acts and it got further away from. My mind highlights the acts of what she did not where she was for a mental perspective or what I did to get her to look somewhere else.

She is very remorseful. She has cried like I've never seen her cry. Complete out loud sobbing unable to catch her breath. Getting on the floor just begging me to stay. I feel so bad to see her in such pain. But this is pain that she brought upon us.

I'm skeptical to make any rash decisions because I'm not clear headed. I haven't been able to digest everything. Whatever type of decision I make now will be out of pure emotion. I don't want to have regrets down the road because I let my ego take over and make decisions for me.

But by no means am I letting her off the hook or minimizing what she did. She never tries to justify or at least outright justify what she did. She admits it was completely wrong and there is no excuse. 

Sometimes I do feel like a backup plan but then like I said this guy was a loser. She says that would have not left me to be with him. That she was ultimately planning on leaving me but then realized how much she cared and loved me.

I really don't know what to believe!!!!????!!!


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## snap

File, and place a VAR or two around. She'll likely spill the beans once served to a friend or her mother. This is your best shot at getting the truth.

Heck, file in any case. She has to face the consequences, even if you two end up reconciled.


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## shecheatedVA

chapparal said:


> This may sound odd to you but you need to find an Individual counselor that knows how to deal with PTSD.
> 
> You were in a bad place as was she. I suspect at the time you weren't thinking about marriage and neither was she. I assume you were not engaged and may hae been on the verge of breaking up anyway.
> 
> Cosidering you have children and have been happy things have actually worked out better for you than most people.
> 
> Why did you ask her about infidelity in the first place? Do you suspect her now?


I've started individual and couples counseling. I've had issues from childhood that are definitely PTSD. It was during that time when I first was dealing with my childhood which made her stray. I wasn't thinking about marriage nor engagement. We had been together for a few years. The first couple were great but the last 1.5 years before were pretty bad.

I asked her about her infidelity due to some dumb comments she made when she was drunk about other men etc. It made me insecure and I called her out on it. I was looking for confirmation that she didn't but got news that I would have never expected.


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## Will_Kane

shecheatedVA said:


> Sometimes I do feel like a backup plan but then like I said this guy was a loser. She says that would have not left me to be with him. That *she was ultimately planning on leaving me but then realized how much she cared and loved me*.
> 
> I really don't know what to believe!!!!????!!!


Based on how things turned out, I would say that sounds about right.


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## shecheatedVA

Broken at 20 said:


> That doesn't change the fact that he built his life ontop of quicksand, and now it is all sinking.
> 
> Dude, you are just getting of this and your emotions are going to be too raw to really digest.
> I would suggest filing simply because if you decide to stick it out, you an stop the proceedings. But if you decide you want to be out and free, you won't have to sit around and wait for the divorce to be finalized.
> 
> But you need to figure out what you truly want. Because your emotions are going to be raw for a few weeks before you can figure it out.


Believe me, I realize the marriage was built on quick sand. She states that we dated for another 5 years and felt as though we were strong enough to advance our relationship. My reply was that I never had a chance to make a life decision based on ALL of the facts. It should have been left for me to decide based on ALL the facts if I wanted to marry or not. 

I don't know what I truly want. I want her but then again I can't stand knowing my life is based on a lie. She cheated on my 3x! 3x! and she keeps saying it was just one mistake. 

I feel as though in order to move on I need to go do the same thing to her. Get emotionally involved and then physically with someone else. But then I would be compromising my own character and belief system. I don't know what I should do.


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## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> I will be taking some time to be by myself. Get into some short term rental so I can sort out my feelings and intent. The thing is when I'm away I replay the acts and it got further away from. My mind highlights the acts of what she did not where she was for a mental perspective or what I did to get her to look somewhere else.
> 
> She is very remorseful. She has cried like I've never seen her cry. Complete out loud sobbing unable to catch her breath. Getting on the floor just begging me to stay. I feel so bad to see her in such pain. But this is pain that she brought upon us.
> 
> I'm skeptical to make any rash decisions because I'm not clear headed. I haven't been able to digest everything. Whatever type of decision I make now will be out of pure emotion. I don't want to have regrets down the road because I let my ego take over and make decisions for me.
> 
> But by no means am I letting her off the hook or minimizing what she did. She never tries to justify or at least outright justify what she did. She admits it was completely wrong and there is no excuse.
> 
> Sometimes I do feel like a backup plan but then like I said this guy was a loser. She says that would have not left me to be with him. That she was ultimately planning on leaving me but then realized how much she cared and loved me.
> 
> I really don't know what to believe!!!!????!!!


But that does make you a back up. She wanted to see if the grass was greener on the other side and it wasn't so she came back to you.

And considering that she still probably would've lived with the lie of cheating on you if the circumstances weren't right (being drunk and you asking), I might be cynical, but I wouldn't believe one word she says. Sobbing because she's going to lose the comfortable lifestyle she's been accustomed to sounds right to me. Check out the other threads in this section, the wayward spouse bawls like baby after their affair is out. 

Again, this isn't a one time mistake. This is very calculated. 3 times cheating and 6 weeks emotional affair and then 15 years of lies. This isn't "a mistake." This was her lifestyle.

The very least she couldn't done was to tell you before marriage so you could've made an informed decision. That would've hurt so much less. What do vows mean if they were built on lies before?


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## shecheatedVA

Will_Kane said:


> An interested guy came along and your wife decided to see if he was better for her than you. He wasn't. She decided you were the one for her. She didn't tell you probably because she knew she would lose you if she did. It's obvious from what you remember of their conversation that she was done with him, although it's also obvious she was lying to him and leading him on also, probably telling him she liked him more than you, thus he couldn't believe she was still with you.
> 
> It doesn't seem fair that her lies got her what she wanted at your "expense." It also seems that it didn't work out all that bad for you - prior to this little slip of the tongue of hers, you have been completely happy with your marriage, your wife, your kids, your life. I would recommend not throwing away an otherwise happy life over this. Try to work it out with your wife. Seek counseling and make sure you get one you like.


As I previously mentioned, this guy had NOTHING going in his life. He was a fat, drug abusing, alcoholic who thought of himself as a quasi intellect philosopher. He was full of such bull crap which I immediately saw through after a few times of meeting him. I guess to my idiot wife she believed or rather wanted to believe the bullcrap that he fed her. I think she did lead him on. From what I recall he though they had something. She tells me she never planned on staying with him but rather leaving me. Who really knows what she really told him. I don't want to be anyone's back up plan. I have overcome too much in my life and am at a very good point (outside of this relationship) to just continue for the sake of continuing. She would have lost me for sure had she revealed the infidelity. There is no doubt about that. She says this experience actually helped her solidify her true feelings towards me and that she could never ever live without me. 

I found out that she did tell him that give her a few months to decide if she wanted to continue with me. Her reasoning was to get him off her back. I think that it was again a backup plan. In the event, it didn't work, she could go back to him. She also confided, had I not intercepted the call, she probably would have continued the emotional aspect!!! But then she double backed and said that she was too afraid of getting caught by me. I don't know what's real or not. Part of me thinks she continued seeing him.

She said that he continued to call her at work and leave messages. She never returned the calls until one day when he showed up at her work. They talked and she gave him a ride back to his house where she swears nothing happened. She had decided to end it the last time that she went to his house but ended up having sex (for the 3rd time).


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## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> Believe me, I realize the marriage was built on quick sand. She states that we dated for another 5 years and felt as though we were strong enough to advance our relationship. My reply was that I never had a chance to make a life decision based on ALL of the facts. It should have been left for me to decide based on ALL the facts if I wanted to marry or not.
> 
> I don't know what I truly want. I want her but then again I can't stand knowing my life is based on a lie. She cheated on my 3x! 3x! and she keeps saying it was just one mistake.
> 
> I feel as though in order to move on I need to go do the same thing to her. Get emotionally involved and then physically with someone else. But then I would be compromising my own character and belief system. I don't know what I should do.


Please don't do this. Don't be like her. She should've ended things if she didn't want to be with with you at that time just like you should if you decide to leave her. This will merely be a short fix for the pain because you'll still have to see her and be around her everyday.


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## Jibril

ShecheatedVA, I think you should get a post-nuptial agreement, just to make yourself feel a bit more secure. And to hammer home how grievous this betrayal was, and where your thoughts are about the marriage at the moment.

Secondly, I don't think you should move out. Does she have any family in town? Tell them about the affair, and ask her (insist) to stay with them for a few weeks while you clear your head and decide what you want from her and the marriage.

Exposing the affair will force her to acknowledge her betrayal to the people who raised and love her (a consequences for her infidelity). And her staying away from you for a while will help you determine whether you can live with (or without) her in the future.


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## TDSC60

Nothing you did made her cheat. You were having emotional problems and SHE was not there for YOU. She admits that she was going to dump you because you were having problems and she didn't think you were worth the effort.

Even after having lousy sex the first time, she kept going back hoping it would get better thus justifying her decision to dump you. You were definitely the back-up plan. She settled for you after not finding something better.

So quit thinking that she was "forced" to cheat or that your behavior was the cause. If she was in love with you - it would not have happened.

Lack of moral character and selfish out look explains her cheating and 15 years of lies. Sometime it is as simple as that.

Do you think she has changed? Do you think that she was in love with you when you married? Are you in love with her now, or has all this killed that for you?

You do need to get away and take some time alone to figure out what you want to do. Do not talk to her or allow her to contact you unless it evolves kids or finances. 

If she is in love with you she will wait for you to make the decision - 15 years overdue - but still your decision.


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## Summer4744

She cheated I think getting your own place short term is a good idea. The problem is that right now you have a lot to sort out and it will be hard to know what you really feel or want unless you separate yourself from the situation and see how things play out.

I would not file nor would I have a revenge affair. The reason you want to 180 and even live alone for awhile is to see if you really do want to do these other things. But for now the wounds are too raw to go down that road.

In hindsight. Do you think your wife regrets telling you? What would have happened if there was no alcohol that day? Would your wife had been fine living a lie. Or do you think she would have told you at some point?


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## anchorwatch

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes this happenned 15 years ago. We dated for 5 more years and have been married for 10 years. I agree I don't want to make any permanent life decisions based off of anger and hurt. The married years have been good overall. Like most marriages, there have been ups and downs but overall good. We love each other and enjoy each other's company.
> 
> *Then this would be an relationship worth the work it takes to try to heal. That's what you should do. *
> 
> We have begun counseling. Individual and together which seems to be helping. At the very least, it's a good venue to feel safe and say what needs to be said.
> 
> *Yes, you both need a safe place where you can get your emotions, thoughts and questions out. Even if the effects of time have blurred the answers.*.
> 
> She had read After the Affair. I've read a few chapters and they seem to touch on many of the feelings that I'm experiencing. I'm just too tore up to sit down and focus on womehting for any extended period of time. My therapist recommends I read that too.
> 
> *Read it! You need to understand the dynamics of what your going through. May I also suggest, "Surviving an Affair" by W Harley. Ask you MD for something to take the edge off. Your emotions have you on the roller coaster. It may help you settle down so can concentrate. *


You ask what should you do? I think you have a marriage to save. I don't think you need to decide if you should D now. You can work toward reconciliation of the marriage and explore whether you can or can't. Then decide. It's a process that takes time, but you will at least know if you could or couldn't do it. 

I also think a few days apart to catch your breath is okay. But you can't effectively work on your marriage when separated.


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## Rags

Bear in mind that many people (not on here) will look at the 15 year gap, and think you should just get over it.

What they will fail to realise is, that for you, this has just happened. In your timeline of knowledge, she just cheated on you.

People on here tend to know that it's not when it happened, but when you found out, that things date from - this is frequently not so amongst those who know little about it. Be prepared for that, if you chose to make it known to others.

They will point out that you weren't married, and that she has built a life with you since. And to a (very limited) extent, that's true. However the basis on which you understood the relationship to exist has been shattered.

I will leave explanations of what options remain for you to the experts - others have been through this, and have variously divorced, had revenge affairs, reconcilled ... 

(AFAIK, no revenge affair has ever helped, short or long term - all it does is destroy your own self image.)

So, listen to the various people on here - they know what they're taling about (for all that soem are a little jaded - installing a VAR, now? really? do you any suspicion that she's cheating now??) - but be aware that a lot of people 'out there' will be far less sympathetic, I expect.


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## couple

Well life can be cruel and good people can do cruel things to other people.

Relationships are not constant and where you were at 15 years ago in college is very different from where you are today with 3 kids and a 10 year marriage. Most people don't have a relationship last all through college and on to marriage. College is not an easy place for a lasting long term relationship. No excuse but hey, that's the reality.

She made a mistake 15 years ago and while it might now feel like a kick in the [email protected] and a huge blow to your pride, you need to think about this rationally. If you dump her for this mistake that she made 15 years ago, what do you do? You will tear your family apart and probably lose your kids and/or create a huge disruption in their lives. You will give up a loving relationship of 10 years. Then what? Get into the dating scene for a few years? See kids at the weekends. Hope to meet someone who won't cheat on you?

Nobody likes to be cheated on. Do what you need to do. Be angry. Get counseling. Get a hall pass if you need to. But think about what you are doing and don't let your pride make you do something you'll regret.


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## MVIRGE7210

It's been 15 yrs. Simply put, get over it. There is no reason to ruin an otherwise good relationship cause of a 15 year old screw up. Move forward. I mean REALLY move on. Forgive. Go to God if that's your deal. Don't let scorned people advise you either.. just saying... Good Luck.


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## costa200

MVIRGE7210 said:


> It's been 15 yrs. Simply put, get over it. There is no reason to ruin an otherwise good relationship cause of a 15 year old screw up. Move forward. I mean REALLY move on. Forgive. Go to God if that's your deal. Don't let scorned people advise you either.. just saying... Good Luck.


LOL... This type of thinking is why cheaters lie. As long as they can keep it up for over a decade then you have some people saying these half baked lines such as "There is no reason to ruin an otherwise good relationship"...

Otherwise a good relationship? Faithfulness is the very basis of a marriage. The very word implies it. There is no "otherwise"! Once you know that your partner is morally capable of cheating you must steady yourself for when things get rough on your side (disease, employment, emotional availability) to get abandoned for someone else.

Horrible place to be in. I know i wouldn't do it.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

SheCheatedVA,

So sorry you find yourself in this situation. Welcome to the club no one ever wants to join. It sucks, I know.

You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders, so keep using it! Your reactions are exactly what they should be in this situation. You are angry and feel completely betrayed and don't know how to react. I am certain your head and heart are all over the place, we've been there. 

You are making a lot of good decisions, despite the chaos around you and inside you: Not making permanent decisions while in the initial emotional state, not rug sweeping the betrayal and taking time to step away and clear your head are all the right things to do. You need some time away to reflect and think. She needs to accept the severity of this betrayal and understand that it means she may lose you. 

You are in the "I get to" phase. You get to decide what next. Take the time to process all of this. Think about what YOU want. She will always be a good mother, and a part of your kids lives either way. You need to make this decision based on what YOU want. Not what is best for the kids, for her etc. Divorce is a very real, and perfectly acceptable response to this situation. And if you go this route, you will be fine. Your wife will be fine. Your kids will be fine. So breathe deep, and know that none of this means the world will end for any involved parties.

I suspect the reason you feel so conflicted is that you do indeed love your wife. I am guessing that part of your anger is that you wish it WAS easy to just say "Fvck you" and walk away. But that deep down, you know there area reasons to consider staying and working on this. Individual counseling and marriage counseling is great for this, and another example of you making good decisions!

It hurts, it sucks and there is no easy decision. You are in the initial phases of what will be a long and difficult journey of either divorce or reconciliation. There is no wrong answer, only what you ultimately want.

Keep doing the right things, keep taking the time to think and allow yourself to get to a better place where you can make decisions confidently. Focus on *you* for awhile. 

Breathe. Eat. Sleep. Get some exercise. Enjoy your beautiful children. And keep reminding yourself that you are not the first to face this awful situation, and sadly, won't be the last. 

If you ultimately decide to stay and work on reconciling, make sure you are honest with yourself and your wife on the why, and most importantly the what next. What you need and expect from her and from the relationship - she will need to be just as committed to this as you. Perhaps even more so, as she will need to do some of the heaviest lifting.

Each day gets easier. So sorry you find yourself here, but you are not alone my friend. You will emerge from this stronger and better, either way.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

Two last things:

Please ignore woodchuck and mverg, this is not gonna help you.

And mverg, seriously? This is your first post on this site? Wow, just wow.


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## costa200

> This manning up advice doesn't suit well with those that have been cheated on.


Actually it doesn't suit well with peeps who haven't been cheated on also... How is rugsweeping the fact that your wife cheated on you considered manning up? That's the exact opposite of manning up. That wussing out extreme. You can choose to R with a cheater, but if you just wave her "it's ok honey" then you deserve everything coming at you. At least brand it on her mind that you're not ok with this. That this is not acceptable. THAT is what manning up is. Not being an afraid of confrontation submissive poor excuse of a husband.


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## Complexity

Just reading the responses here, telling this guy his 15 year marriage has been a sham, his children might not be his....already suggesting annulments and divorce....Do you guys get off being this ****ing bitter all the time? are you honestly suggesting that after having a genuinely great relationship for the past 10 years the OP's response should be tossing his wife out in the street because she decided to come clean? Worst case scenario to infinity ey  ?


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## costa200

Complexity said:


> Just reading the responses here, telling the guy his 15 year marriage has been a sham, his children might not be his....already suggesting annulments and divorce....Do you guys get off being this ****ing bitter all the time? are you honestly suggesting that after having a genuinely great relationship for the past 10 years the OP's response should be tossing his wife out in the street because she decided to come clean?


She didn't decide. She was drunk... And what is the expiration date on cheating consequences? What is your notion of "genuinely great relationship"? One in which the one of the partners lies all the time?

And about DNA? Are you kidding me? Dude just found out he was cheated on. That is smack outright reasonable doubt right there. No if or but. 

Tell you what, if it was me and i discovered that a woman had cheated on me i would divorce her even if i was in my death bed. As long as i could gather the force to sign the freakin papers my name would be on them in all their manuscript glory. Just a matter of principle. 

Doesn't matter if it is 10, 20, 30 or 70 years. I'll have a partner or not partner, never a cheating partner.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

Complexity - 

I don't think any of us should be telling him what to do. What we can do is give him some tools and council on how he should approach the decision making process. The decision is 100% his. He needs to live it with it for the rest of his life. And this is probably one of the biggest decisions he will ever make.

I agree that too often on this site people jump to the "solution" of telling people what decisions they should make. But in some ways, seeing different responses can also be helpful. I know seeing some of the immediate "your wife is a whoooore, your kids probably aren't even yours, she has probably slept with hundreds of men etc" were actually helpful. Seeing how some people react to the extreme helps ground me in NOT doing the same. 

But to be fair, I also understand the dark places that many of these "solutions" come from. I was there for a while too.

Life is not black and white. 95% of life happens in the gray, and learning that has been very good for me.


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## Complexity

costa200 said:


> She didn't decided. She was drunk... And what is the expiration date on cheating consequences? What is your notion of "genuinely great relationship"? One in which the one of the partners lies all the time?
> 
> And about DNA? Are you kidding me? Dude just found out he was cheated on. That is smack outright reasonable doubt right there. No if or but.
> 
> Tell you what, if it was me and i discovered that a woman had cheated on me i would divorce her even if i was in my death bed. As long as i could gather the force to sign the freakin papers my name would be on them in all their manuscript glory. Just a matter of principle.
> 
> Doesn't matter if it is 10, 20, 30 or 70 years. I'll have a partner or not partner, never a cheating partner.


Costa your partner has never cheated on you so I don't understand how you're so cut and dry about divorcing someone who cheats. It's all well and good to be like that over the internet but when push comes to shove, I can guarantee there will be a HUGE disparity in the way people react in real life. 

Second, none of us have anything invested in this guy's relationship so it doesn't matter what I consider "a great relationship". How is it even logically possible to negate 10 years of a fruitful/happy marriage because of a 2 week meaningless romp that occurred when they were at their worst? And because she decided to come out with the truth, his response should be to pack her bags and toss her to the curb? what will that achieve anyway other than putting his children under needless pain? Oh and regarding DNA'ing his 3 kids, unless she got pregnant after the time she slept with that guy, what purpose do you think that'll serve? or are we automatically assuming she's a serial cheater because she trickle truthed?


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## warlock07

> How is it even logically possible to negate 10 years of a fruitful/happy marriage because of a 2 week meaningless romp that occurred when they were at their worst?


I disagree with this part. have you read all his posts? she kept the OP as a backup option.


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## tom67

Complexity said:


> Costa your partner has never cheated on you so I don't understand how you're so cut and dry about divorcing someone who cheats. It's all well and good to be like that over the internet but when push comes to shove, I can guarantee there will be a HUGE disparity in the way people react in real life.
> 
> Second, none of us have anything invested in this guy's relationship so it doesn't matter what I consider "a great relationship". How is it even logically possible to negate 10 years of a fruitful/happy marriage because of a 2 week meaningless romp that occurred when they were at their worst? And because she decided to come out with the truth, his response should be to pack her bags and toss her to the curb? what will that achieve anyway other than putting his children under needless pain? Oh and regarding DNA'ing his 3 kids, unless she got pregnant after the time she slept with that guy, what purpose do you think that'll serve? or are we automatically assuming she's a serial cheater because she trickle truthed?


Don't forget most cheaters are liars so you are assuming she is telling the truth. How about trust but verify, to him this was recent not 15 years ago.


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## Complexity

Shecheated you can go nuclear and do what those other people here have suggested. Kick her out, consult with an attorney to weigh up your options and DNA your children for equal measure.

Or 

If you genuinely love this woman and see the remorse in her, seriously consider couples counselling to deal with this difficult time. If you're not fully content with her honesty get her to take a polygraph so then you're able to uncover everything. Just suggesting the Polygraph may get her to spill whatever else she decided to conceal. I understand that dealing with a physical affair is much harder so again I can fully appreciate it if you think you won't be able to move past this. I however believe your marriage is worth saving and it isn't worth losing your wife over this. You've already found your best friend who loves you to death and has made you very happy. You have a happy home with your children and it isn't worth destroying all of this over a very stupid decision 15 years ago which by her own admission, has ate her up everyday since .


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## Complexity

warlock07 said:


> I disagree with this part. have you read all his posts? she kept the OP as a backup option.


The OP was the never the back up option, here's what he wrote

_He talked to her and lightened up the heavy burden of dealing with me and I was going through my own hell. She said she never loved him. She said she didn't even find him physically appealing. She just feed off his words. They allowed her to escape her life and feel free. The affair lasted ~6 weeks. They talked for a few weeks on the phone (daily), then he met her after class for a few weeks where it started to get physical (kissing, touching, rubbing). The last 2 weeks of the affair she had sex with him. She says this has completely destroyed her on the inside. Destroyed her psyche. It wasn't within her character to do that and it has broken her and question herself. She's had to deal with keeping this secret and it has eaten at her soul daily. I want to believe her cause I love her so much. The reason she didn't tell me was she didn't want to hurt me knowing how fragile and hurt I already by my past. She seems authentically sorry about it. She swears the physical/sexual is what caused her to turn back to me. She realized how much she loved me. She said once the emotional turned physical, it made her realize what a big mistake she had made. She saw how immature her thinking was and that I meant everything to her._


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## costa200

> Costa your partner has never cheated on you so I don't understand how you're so cut and dry about divorcing someone who cheats.


You may understand it better if you know that i've had very close family in the situation and seen first hand what it does to you. So, no, not for me. Have nothing against people who deal with it in other ways, but i'm not that way.



> I can guarantee there will be a HUGE disparity in the way people react in real life.


Actually in my country this really ain't this big of a drama. Women cheats you dump her. Nobody raises waves over it and everyone pats you on the back. This isn't really a controversial subject over on this side. 

Guys who do R are an extreme minority.



> Second, none of us have anything invested in this guy's relationship so it doesn't matter what I consider "a great relationship". How is it even logically possible to negate 10 years of a fruitful/happy marriage because of a 2 week meaningless romp that occurred when they were at their worst?


So, basically what you're saying here is that is a cheater manages to hide it long enough it's a free for all? Sorry, i don't support that at all. For me it doesn't matter how long, when it was, how supposedly happy moments there was based on a LIE. I'm not into being deceived into a false happiness.

Now the OP, that's his business, he can do what he pleases, it's his life. But there are plenty of people out there who would kick this woman to the curb. And cheating is never "meaningless". She did it once, he can expect it again. This time, it's on him. That's the scenario he is facing.



> And because she decided to come out with the truth, his response should be to pack her bags and toss her to the curb? what will that achieve anyway other than putting his children under needless pain? Oh and regarding DNA'ing his 3 kids, unless she got pregnant after the time she slept with that guy, what purpose do you think that'll serve? or are we automatically assuming she's a serial cheater because she trickle truthed?


No, we assume she is still trickle truthing. If they are his (and i hope they are, enough damage already) then no down side. If they are not, then he can decide, with data in hand, what to do, for a change.

And as an educator i would say that the worse thing that happens to a kid is to be in a "stay for the kids" situation. Give me divorced parents any day. I would advise the OP to either do a true R or do a divorce. Kids are not a good reason to be with a woman.


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## costa200

> I agree with complexity, this happened 5 years before they married.


Completely irrelevant. A piece of paper doesn't change the fact that their were exclusive. Cheating is cheating. Legal contracts aside.

His pain is no different for it.


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## shecheatedVA

I appreciate everyone's commented except for the **** who told me to man up. Buddy I am a bigger man with bigger balls than you could ever imagine. All you know about me is what I've told you about the affair so don't go judging my manhood. A beta male would just bend over and accept the fact that someone he committed to would find love in the arms of another male. It's a beta male who would simply suck it up and take it as is. Any man with even a little bit of self respect would question the merits of his marriage. 

I plan on taking some time and throughly examining all of my feelings and the pros/cons of any decision especially one that will impact the lives of 3 innocent children. I'm getting counseling for myself and participating and marriage counseling with her. 

I'm trying to work through my feelings and soliciting feedback from others who were the victims or the perpetrators. I'm trying to understand if my feelings are normal or not. 

I don't think I need to get DNA testing nor install any VAR devices. As I mentioned, but not saying it was right or accepting blame, we went through a really rough period during that time. As a 20 something guy out on his own, trying to get through college after years of a traumatic childhood caused me to snap in certain ways. I went from a loving, fun, happy to be with (as I was early in our relationship) to a closed off, depressed, angry, obsessive person. Again not trying to justify what she did, but simply trying to understand that some of my actions would cause someone who was young, immature and came from a normal up-bringing to question the relationship. At the same time, I would think that most caring people would either voice that concern or simply end the relationship which she did neither. 

She did say she never intended it to become physical. He was feeding her ego and made her feel special. I questioned as to why she slept with him and said she felt as though she owed it to him. She was wrapped up by the way he made her feel. Again not justifying simple telling you what she told me. 

At times the physical gets me the most upset but at other times it's the fact that she gave herself emotionally to someone else. That she shared herself in a way which should have been only for me. I get angry that some other guy made her stomach have butterflies, that her thoughts were consumed about him during this time, that she would wake and sleep with him on her mind. I'm angry thinking about how wet she probably was by the new ****. 

I've read quite a bit and have learned for women it's not just about looks. He gave her what she thought she needed emotionally. She felt a connection with him and even though wasn't physically attracted (according to her) felt there was a connection there. 

I don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess it helps getting it out on paper. Based on what she told me the sex was as goes. 

The first time she went to his house when his roomate wasn't there. They talked for a bit and he pulled her pants off and just got on top and ****3d her. She said it was awkward and that he just "went to town" on her. She said he had a smallish **** and thought he'd be bigger. It was awkward and fast. He did nothing in terms of attempting to satisfy her or maker her orgasm. Wham bam type of situation. 

The second time she met with him they attempted to have sex. The dude was such a drunk he couldn't get it up. He blamed the condom and that was never able to get it in. Regardless if he blew a load or not, it was the intent which is still considered sex although penetration didn't take place. 

The last time happened when she had decided to end it with him. She went to his place and he started pleading with her and filling her head with how she deserved so much better. How beautiful and amazing she was and she deserved to be cherished and cared for. My wife said she fell back into the drama. When she was away she had committed to end it but when faced she broke down. He kept telling her how much better it would. She didn't disclose too much about the last time other than again he got on top and finished up. Seeing he was losing her, he attempted to go down on her, which she vehemently states she quickly stopped since that was much more intimate (huh?). After he busted he fingered her and try to get her off with his hand. She said to finish it she ended up faking an O and that was the end. 

There was no oral performed by her and they had intercourse 2x. Each time he wore a condom. She said the sex was lackluster and there was no passion there. She said he never made her cum. She said it was awkward and he fumbled around cause he was fat and probably drunk. 

I don't know if I feel better it was so lousy or that much more upset that she would bang such a loser 3x that couldn't even keep his prick hard. That she still thought she wanted to do him a third time when he couldn't even get it up. That he cared so little about her that he wouldn't even try to do anything other than get on top and bang her out. She says it was probably cause he had ED and had to do it quick before he deflated. I guess I'd feel a lot worse if he was some Don Juan with a magic tongue, body of a greek god and a wang that could be used a sword but then again I'm upset she had no selection criteria and would go to the bottom of the barrel choose someone to cheat on. I've read for women it's not just about the guy but the opportunity. In this case, this f*ck was there when she was low. She was at a very low place in her life and he used it to get her. 

I've tried to find this prick. I have visions of gutting him like a pig or using a steel rod to bash his face in. I've gone as far as looking him up online but can't find anything. I've gone on FB and searched through some people that knew him and can't find ****. I know if I found where he was at, I'd rip him up and I'm not talking about fair ****. I'm talking about brass nuckles to the face after kicking him in his nuts as hard as possible. Then I'd would literally beat him to a pulp. It's probably for the best (at least for now that I can't find him). I'm sure for my kids sake this guy is not worth them losing their father over. In any case if I do find him, there will be hell to pay. I pray that I run into him so I can make sure he'll never be able to use that little c0ck of his again.

Typing that out makes me want to puke and has me so angry but it's the reality of the situation. I need to go smoke a cigarette and walk away from this.


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## tom67

Take your time it's all fairly new to you and good luck.


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## costa200

More power to you shecheatedVA. Ignore that manning up crap. Dude doesn't know up from down.




> I've tried to find this prick. I have visions of gutting him like a pig or using a steel rod to bash his face in. I've gone as far as looking him up online but can't find anything.


Don't! Just don't! He ain't worth it. You have those kids to think about. They don't need their father in jail. 

Stick around and vent here. Plenty of guys who have been there to help you out. Stay strong and take care of yourself. You'll need everything together to deal with this, any way you decide to go.


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## aug

shecheatedVA said:


> The first time she went to his house when his roomate wasn't there. They talked for a bit and he pulled her pants off and just got on top and ****3d her. She said it was awkward and that he just "went to town" on her. *She said he had a smallish **** and thought he'd be bigger.* It was awkward and fast. He did nothing in terms of attempting to satisfy her or maker her orgasm. Wham bam type of situation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...that she would bang such a loser 3x that* couldn't even keep his prick hard*.


Haha... That's what they all say. Very few will say the OM is well-equipped for them and they enjoyed it.

She certainly seem to downplay the sex with the OM -- which is understandable given her relationship with you now.


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## shecheatedVA

aug said:


> Haha... That's what they all say. Very few will say the OM is well-equipped for them and they enjoyed it.
> 
> She certainly seem to downplay the sex with the OM -- which is understandable given her relationship with you now.


That's something that has been driving me crazy too. I want to know the exact details. How do I really get her to tell me the complete truth. She swears she has told me everything. She needed to tell me this to unload the burden of keeping this secret for so long. That carrying this was eating her up inside. Destroying her little by little day by day.

I want to know if they f*ck3d like rabbits and he made her bust harder than ever before. I want to know if his c0ck was huge and he used it to satisfy her. Then I ask myself what good will these details provide. I think ultimately they would drive me further away from her and would make me feel insecure about myself. 

I'm sure most downplay the physical act but what I remember of this guy he was a fat turd. I'm sure his c0ck was covered by quite a bit of fat. What bothers me is that she said he was smallish. What the hell is smallish. Smallish compared to what? She did say he attempted to make it more passionate by kissing her neck and feeling her hair, etc. 

Question to you folks is - how I get her to tell me the details of the specific sex acts. I asked her about it and she says she's given it to me but no way close to the detail that I want to hear. Is there something wrong with me? Am I some kind of masochist that needs to be punished? I read it's normal but I want the smallest of details. When she's told me in the past, I can feel my breathing get very shallow and heart race like I've just run the marathon. It's followed by a sick feeling in my stomach and wanted to complete end the relationship never to speak to hear again. What good will this bring but I need to hear more....


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## Plan 9 from OS

OP, in the end you're going to have to take your time and carefully consider what you want to do. No doubt the idea that you found out that your GF (who ultimately became your wife) cheated on you and you never had the opportunity to review all the facts and break if off if you couldn't get over her physical cheating. As you indicated, your life would probably be different now. I get that and can appreciate how you feel like your life was controlled by someone else without your input.

But you should consider very carefully what life was like with your wife from the time this PA ended through the moment right before you found out her EA turned into a PA. Was she there for you in good times and in bad these last 15 years? Did she fulfill you emotionally? Did you have a fulfilling romantic relationship with your wife throughout these years? Is she responsible when she dealt with household issues, raising the kids and just being there for you? Do you have any nagging feelings during these past 15 years that your wife was not 100% into you (maybe even becoming involved with other men since she was no longer seeing the "corpulent philosopher"?

I am going to go out on a limb opine that the answers to these questions are largely yes - you had a rewarding and loving marriage and have a great family. Assuming you decide to reconcile with your wife in the end, you will have to insist on certain conditions that she will need to adhere to in order to rebuild the trust.

1) full, 100% transparency moving forward with e-mail, FB, cell phones, etc. This means you too. The bottom line, no secrets from this point on.

2) she needs to be prepared to answer any and all questions you may have about not only this time with the OM but any other parts of your life afterward. With trust gone, it will be natural to question a lot of things to recheck your assumptions. She needs to recognize this and be patient with you.

3) she needs to do her best to "make you whole" in some way. We know in reality that this is nothing more than a goal and that she can never fully make this up to you. But as a demonstration of her love for you, she needs to try in some way to show that you are deeply wounded and that she needs to make things "right" somehow. Since it doesn't sound like she did anything special with him that she hasn't done with you, then I guess there isn't any negative issues to worry about here. But...

4) with the idea of "no more secrets" you need to tell her - insist from her - that she gives you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She must not sugar coat anything in order to spare your feelings. You need to know the whole truth - even if it ends up that she slept with this guy more than 3 times and that the sex was great. To heal, you need the truth because as she should know by now, you never know when the truth will pop out to yell "HERE I AM!!!".

These are some thoughts that I have. Others with much more experience with this than I should weigh in and provide you some advice too - which it looks like it's already happening.


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA,

Just a few points I'd like to make. IMO I would get the children DNA tested. Not because I thought they weren't mine but because it would reinforce to her how serious this situation is. As far as getting the truth, I would suggest that you have her write out everything she remembers about the affair and tell her she must include as much detail as possible. Tell her you are going to verify everything with a polygraph test. Whether you actually go through with the test or not is not the point. The fact that you are telling her that you will verify her story will again drive it home how serious this is and will also reinforce to her how shaken your trust in her is. These are things I would start with. If you decide to stay with her the postnup also seems like a good idea. Again just to reinforce to her the consequences of her betrayal.


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## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> Question to you folks is - how I get her to tell me the details of the specific sex acts. I asked her about it and she says she's given it to me but no way close to the detail that I want to hear. Is there something wrong with me? Am I some kind of masochist that needs to be punished? I read it's normal but I want the smallest of details. When she's told me in the past, I can feel my breathing get very shallow and heart race like I've just run the marathon. It's followed by a sick feeling in my stomach and wanted to complete end the relationship never to speak to hear again. What good will this bring but I need to hear more....


I think it's normal because you want to know "what went wrong" between the two of you. Also, you need to know every bit of the gory details (at least I believe this) so that you can help eliminate the mind movies. The imagination is a funny thing and is very good at filling in the gaps of info that we don't know - in brilliantly flourishing strokes btw - and our imaginations normally embellish the truth. What I would stress to her is that you need the whole truth because right now you are imagining that the guy was hung like John Holmes, could screw like a machine, could lick carpet better than a cat, etc... You get where I'm going with this. I'm being graphic so that you can point out your thoughts in graphic detail to her. Impress on her the idea that you imagining what happened is worse than not knowing the truth - and that you will have a good idea when you are not getting the truth. You may have to go over this many, many and many times more to ensure you are fully satisfied and that the story she tells no longer changes.


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## Chaparral

You don't want to know the details.

How long had you gone together when this happened?

Were you engaged?

Had you taken vows?

You were both in college?

Almost no one I know married their college sweetheart.

I went to college over thirty years ago and was in a similar situation. There was no way I figured I would marry my girlfriend. A few years later we did decide to marry and then we broke up.

You sound like you were in a permanent commited relationship at the time. I had girls fall in love with me but I told them I am not ready to have an exclusive relationship. If they assumed more that was a mistake.

I think you are making a big mistake here. Get your self some counseling and be the leader of your family. She obviously never felt right or she would have taken it to her grave. If this happened after you were engaged, living together or married I could see your point. As it stands I side with your kids and their needs. I hope this is the worst thing that ever happens to you because families can go through much worse. example? My aunt lost two of three children before they were grown.


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## Chaparral

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think it's normal because you want to know "what went wrong" between the two of you. Also, you need to know every bit of the gory details (at least I believe this) so that you can help eliminate the mind movies. The imagination is a funny thing and is very good at filling in the gaps of info that we don't know - in brilliantly flourishing strokes btw - and our imaginations normally embellish the truth. What I would stress to her is that you need the whole truth because right now you are imagining that the guy was hung like John Holmes, could screw like a machine, could lick carpet better than a cat, etc... You get where I'm going with this. I'm being graphic so that you can point out your thoughts in graphic detail to her. Impress on her the idea that you imagining what happened is worse than not knowing the truth - and that you will have a good idea when you are not getting the truth. You may have to go over this many, many and many times more to ensure you are fully satisfied and that the story she tells no longer changes.


I've never seen someone here that conviced me the mind movies improved with the details. On top of that who can remember detalis of something like that 15 years ago. I went with a girl in college and after for about six years, I barely remember anything.


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## keko

shecheatedVA said:


> That's something that has been driving me crazy too. I want to know the exact details. How do I really get her to tell me the complete truth. She swears she has told me everything. She needed to tell me this to unload the burden of keeping this secret for so long. That carrying this was eating her up inside. Destroying her little by little day by day.
> 
> I want to know if they f*ck3d like rabbits and he made her bust harder than ever before. I want to know if his c0ck was huge and he used it to satisfy her. Then I ask myself what good will these details provide. I think ultimately they would drive me further away from her and would make me feel insecure about myself.
> 
> I'm sure most downplay the physical act but what I remember of this guy he was a fat turd. I'm sure his c0ck was covered by quite a bit of fat. What bothers me is that she said he was smallish. What the hell is smallish. Smallish compared to what? She did say he attempted to make it more passionate by kissing her neck and feeling her hair, etc.
> 
> Question to you folks is - how I get her to tell me the details of the specific sex acts. I asked her about it and she says she's given it to me but no way close to the detail that I want to hear. Is there something wrong with me? Am I some kind of masochist that needs to be punished? I read it's normal but I want the smallest of details. When she's told me in the past, I can feel my breathing get very shallow and heart race like I've just run the marathon. It's followed by a sick feeling in my stomach and wanted to complete end the relationship never to speak to hear again. What good will this bring but I need to hear more....


Don't bother wasting your time expecting to hear the full truth from her ever. You may hear one or two details but it's not going to anything near the full truth. 

Take some time to read some older threads. Only in few rare cases the betrayed spouse finds more details through secret email accounts, computer files, flash drives, etc. but since your wife's affair is quite old it'll be nearly impossible to snoop yourself.

Also from reading stories on this and few other sites. Knowing the fine details will actually hurt you in the long run. Maybe if there were more guys involved and it went on for years. But other smaller details should be left unknown for your own sake.


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## carmen ohio

shecheatedVA said:


> I appreciate everyone's commented except for the **** who told me to man up. Buddy I am a bigger man with bigger balls than you could ever imagine. All you know about me is what I've told you about the affair so don't go judging my manhood. A beta male would just bend over and accept the fact that someone he committed to would find love in the arms of another male. It's a beta male who would simply suck it up and take it as is. Any man with even a little bit of self respect would question the merits of his marriage.
> 
> I plan on taking some time and throughly examining all of my feelings and the pros/cons of any decision especially one that will impact the lives of 3 innocent children. I'm getting counseling for myself and participating and marriage counseling with her.
> 
> I'm trying to work through my feelings and soliciting feedback from others who were the victims or the perpetrators. I'm trying to understand if my feelings are normal or not.
> 
> I don't think I need to get DNA testing nor install any VAR devices. As I mentioned, but not saying it was right or accepting blame, we went through a really rough period during that time. As a 20 something guy out on his own, trying to get through college after years of a traumatic childhood caused me to snap in certain ways. I went from a loving, fun, happy to be with (as I was early in our relationship) to a closed off, depressed, angry, obsessive person. Again not trying to justify what she did, but simply trying to understand that some of my actions would cause someone who was young, immature and came from a normal up-bringing to question the relationship. At the same time, I would think that most caring people would either voice that concern or simply end the relationship which she did neither.
> 
> She did say she never intended it to become physical. He was feeding her ego and made her feel special. I questioned as to why she slept with him and said she felt as though she owed it to him. She was wrapped up by the way he made her feel. Again not justifying simple telling you what she told me.
> 
> At times the physical gets me the most upset but at other times it's the fact that she gave herself emotionally to someone else. That she shared herself in a way which should have been only for me. I get angry that some other guy made her stomach have butterflies, that her thoughts were consumed about him during this time, that she would wake and sleep with him on her mind. I'm angry thinking about how wet she probably was by the new ****.
> 
> I've read quite a bit and have learned for women it's not just about looks. He gave her what she thought she needed emotionally. She felt a connection with him and even though wasn't physically attracted (according to her) felt there was a connection there.
> 
> I don't know why I'm sharing this but I guess it helps getting it out on paper. Based on what she told me the sex was as goes.
> 
> The first time she went to his house when his roomate wasn't there. They talked for a bit and he pulled her pants off and just got on top and ****3d her. She said it was awkward and that he just "went to town" on her. She said he had a smallish **** and thought he'd be bigger. It was awkward and fast. He did nothing in terms of attempting to satisfy her or maker her orgasm. Wham bam type of situation.
> 
> The second time she met with him they attempted to have sex. The dude was such a drunk he couldn't get it up. He blamed the condom and that was never able to get it in. Regardless if he blew a load or not, it was the intent which is still considered sex although penetration didn't take place.
> 
> The last time happened when she had decided to end it with him. She went to his place and he started pleading with her and filling her head with how she deserved so much better. How beautiful and amazing she was and she deserved to be cherished and cared for. My wife said she fell back into the drama. When she was away she had committed to end it but when faced she broke down. He kept telling her how much better it would. She didn't disclose too much about the last time other than again he got on top and finished up. Seeing he was losing her, he attempted to go down on her, which she vehemently states she quickly stopped since that was much more intimate (huh?). After he busted he fingered her and try to get her off with his hand. She said to finish it she ended up faking an O and that was the end.
> 
> There was no oral performed by her and they had intercourse 2x. Each time he wore a condom. She said the sex was lackluster and there was no passion there. She said he never made her cum. She said it was awkward and he fumbled around cause he was fat and probably drunk.
> 
> I don't know if I feel better it was so lousy or that much more upset that she would bang such a loser 3x that couldn't even keep his prick hard. That she still thought she wanted to do him a third time when he couldn't even get it up. That he cared so little about her that he wouldn't even try to do anything other than get on top and bang her out. She says it was probably cause he had ED and had to do it quick before he deflated. I guess I'd feel a lot worse if he was some Don Juan with a magic tongue, body of a greek god and a wang that could be used a sword but then again I'm upset she had no selection criteria and would go to the bottom of the barrel choose someone to cheat on. I've read for women it's not just about the guy but the opportunity. In this case, this f*ck was there when she was low. She was at a very low place in her life and he used it to get her.
> 
> I've tried to find this prick. I have visions of gutting him like a pig or using a steel rod to bash his face in. I've gone as far as looking him up online but can't find anything. I've gone on FB and searched through some people that knew him and can't find ****. I know if I found where he was at, I'd rip him up and I'm not talking about fair ****. I'm talking about brass nuckles to the face after kicking him in his nuts as hard as possible. Then I'd would literally beat him to a pulp. It's probably for the best (at least for now that I can't find him). I'm sure for my kids sake this guy is not worth them losing their father over. In any case if I do find him, there will be hell to pay. I pray that I run into him so I can make sure he'll never be able to use that little c0ck of his again.
> 
> Typing that out makes me want to puke and has me so angry but it's the reality of the situation. I need to go smoke a cigarette and walk away from this.


Dear shecheatedVA,

Trust that you're just venting here about bashing the guy's brains in if you ever find him. Don't know if having such thoughts is healthy or not but do know that, whatever you decide to do about your marriage, it's is not worth going to jail for a long time over. Definitely consider adding anger management to your individual counseling.

Also, please understand that some of the guys commenting here are provocateurs. They're bitter over what their wives did to them and they get off on encouraging others to "take revenge." Do what you said you were going to do, take some time, get your emotions under control and then decide what's best for you and your family.

Don't forget that, in the end, she left him and came back to you. Not saying what she did was OK (especially the lying) but, clearly, you have nothing to worry about in terms of who won as between you and him. You did, without even trying.

Finally, I agree with the others who say don't ask for too many details. You don't want this to turn into some kind of fetish.

Good luck.


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## keko

carmen ohio said:


> Don't forget that, in the end, she left him and came back to you. Not saying what she did was OK (especially the lying) but, clearly, you have nothing to worry about in terms of who won as between you and him. You did, without even trying.


This is the dumbest thing I've read in a looooong time.


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## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> That's something that has been driving me crazy too. I want to know the exact details. How do I really get her to tell me the complete truth. She swears she has told me everything. She needed to tell me this to unload the burden of keeping this secret for so long. That carrying this was eating her up inside. Destroying her little by little day by day.
> 
> I want to know if they f*ck3d like rabbits and he made her bust harder than ever before. I want to know if his c0ck was huge and he used it to satisfy her. Then I ask myself what good will these details provide. I think ultimately they would drive me further away from her and would make me feel insecure about myself.
> 
> I'm sure most downplay the physical act but what I remember of this guy he was a fat turd. I'm sure his c0ck was covered by quite a bit of fat. What bothers me is that she said he was smallish. What the hell is smallish. Smallish compared to what? She did say he attempted to make it more passionate by kissing her neck and feeling her hair, etc.
> 
> Question to you folks is - how I get her to tell me the details of the specific sex acts. I asked her about it and she says she's given it to me but no way close to the detail that I want to hear. Is there something wrong with me? Am I some kind of masochist that needs to be punished? I read it's normal but I want the smallest of details. When she's told me in the past, I can feel my breathing get very shallow and heart race like I've just run the marathon. It's followed by a sick feeling in my stomach and wanted to complete end the relationship never to speak to hear again. What good will this bring but I need to hear more....


You're right. This will bring no good and even if he had the biggest one in the world and satisfied her, she would NEVER let you know that. She lied for 15 years, I wouldn't even trust the validity of her name now.

And getting mad at the other guy won't solve anything. It wasn't his fault. He's not the one that had a commitment to you. This is a college guy and you know what all college guys want. He was merely acting his age. This is all your wife's fault, plain and simply.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Hmmm


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## shecheatedVA

I'm sure some of the people on this board are bitter spouses who are here for nothing more than provocation. Like most things I try to read between the lines when it comes to comments. 

I know she came back to me but I don't feel that special since she was able to so quickly drop me for some schmuck who had very little to offer to the world. She says she was broken and had very low self esteem and that my emotional distance from her caused her to latch on to the first person who provided her with she needed emotionally.

As far as hurting the other guy if I ever found him, I do think that I would get some version of justice on him. You're right he didn't owe me anything but he knew who I was and knew I was in a committed relationship. I would make him pay now by punishing him with physical pain. I wouldn't kill the guy or anything but would make him remember me for a long time.

As far as ever getting the truth, you're right, I'll probably never get that. Even if I do, I'll never know what's true and what's not. I have to either believe what my wife is telling me or not. I guess somewhere I'm hoping her need to come clean will be greater than hiding the details. I mean what does she gain by hiding any of the details? If I'm going to leave anyways, she might as well have a clear conscience. Does she really want to leave with this hanging over her head for the rest of her life? What's the incentive other than possibly holding the truth back so it's easier in her head for me to forgive her.


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## keko

Clear conscience? My friend she is/was a cheater and a liar. Don't expect her to think like you and me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo

ShecheatedVA,

I am sorry for your pain and the grief you are experienceing. I have considerable firsthand knowledge of infidelity although my wife was having an ongoing affair when I discovered it. I would give several pieces of advice. CHoose to heed them or not as you see fit.

1) Do not make any hasty decisions. This includes leaving the home for even a brief period of time. Unless home becomes unbearable, you should stay in the house. 

2) Get the book "not Just Friendds" and read it. Your wife should read it as well/ It will help you withsee the world as it is today and ways to rebuild trust.

3)Some have raised the issue of your relationship at the time of the infidelity. You were not engaged or married and it was a full 5 years before you made a committment to marry. Although this doesn't excuse her behavior and I feel you should have known about this affair before making your decision to marry, I view this very differently than an affair of an engaged or married couple. In my mind a girlfriend doesn't owe the fidelity of a committed partner. Just my opinion

4) Look deep inside and determine what it will take from your wife to keep you. Things like complete transparency. Total openess about the event. Perhaps a post-nup agreement. Then see if she isn't willing to do those things.

Good luck.


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## Kasler

KanDo said:


> ShecheatedVA,
> 
> I am sorry for your pain and the grief you are experienceing. I have considerable firsthand knowledge of infidelity although my wife was having an ongoing affair when I discovered it. I would give several pieces of advice. CHoose to heed them or not as you see fit.
> 
> 1) Do not make any hasty decisions. This includes leaving the home for even a brief period of time. Unless home becomes unbearable, you should stay in the house.
> 
> 2) Get the book "not Just Friendds" and read it. Your wife should read it as well/ It will help you withsee the world as it is today and ways to rebuild trust.
> 
> 3)Some have raised the issue of your relationship at the time of the infidelity. You were not engaged or married and it was a full 5 years before you made a committment to marry. Although this doesn't excuse her behavior and I feel you should have known about this affair before making your decision to marry,* I view this very differently than an affair of an engaged or married couple. In my mind a girlfriend doesn't owe the fidelity of a committed partner. Just my opinion*
> 
> 4) Look deep inside and determine what it will take from your wife to keep you. Things like complete transparency. Total openess about the event. Perhaps a post-nup agreement. Then see if she isn't willing to do those things.
> 
> Good luck.


Means nothing if the relationship was considered exclusive.

Piece of paper or no the relationship was monogamous so she cheated all the same.


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## Wazza

SheCheatedVA, each of us who comments has our own reasons for what we say.

Eight years into our marriage my wife had a six months affair. She lied, cheated, ram me down, was emotional and physical with someone else.

I stayed for the kids. That was 1990. Now we have a great marriage.

Things to consider.

She lied. Nothing wil change that, or make it right, but you have to decide whether you can understand and forgive her. It took a long time, but I was abe to understand it in my wife. She now finds it harder to live with what she did than I do. So, in your heart, do you think your wife is a constant liar, or do you think the affair was out of character?

What happened will always hurt, I think. Still does for me, sometimes. But leaving her will hurt too. Which pain do you want?

Some people think that cheaters have an innate character defect..that some people are cheaters and others aren't. I think rather that everyone is fallible, and in a low place we all do things we are not proud of. This doesn't excuse the cheating at all, but suppose you leave your wife. What will you look for to find someone more faithful? For me I believed my wife's cheating was an aberration. If she was a repeat offender, I would probably not attempt to reconcile again.

Do the counselling. Take some space before you make irrevocable decisions. Take care of yourself. Try...and it is very hard...try to form an objective view of your wife's character.


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## jim123

shecheatedVA said:


> I'm sure some of the people on this board are bitter spouses who are here for nothing more than provocation. Like most things I try to read between the lines when it comes to comments.
> 
> I know she came back to me but I don't feel that special since she was able to so quickly drop me for some schmuck who had very little to offer to the world. She says she was broken and had very low self esteem and that my emotional distance from her caused her to latch on to the first person who provided her with she needed emotionally.
> 
> As far as hurting the other guy if I ever found him, I do think that I would get some version of justice on him. You're right he didn't owe me anything but he knew who I was and knew I was in a committed relationship. I would make him pay now by punishing him with physical pain. I wouldn't kill the guy or anything but would make him remember me for a long time.
> 
> As far as ever getting the truth, you're right, I'll probably never get that. Even if I do, I'll never know what's true and what's not. I have to either believe what my wife is telling me or not. I guess somewhere I'm hoping her need to come clean will be greater than hiding the details. I mean what does she gain by hiding any of the details? If I'm going to leave anyways, she might as well have a clear conscience. Does she really want to leave with this hanging over her head for the rest of her life? What's the incentive other than possibly holding the truth back so it's easier in her head for me to forgive her.


You are angry at the wrong person as she made the vow to you. She lied to you for 15 years and now with the truth you are not going to leave anyway so why not just drop it.

You are making a mistake in that you are letting her off easy. In many cases like this it is an approval and makes the next one easier. If the next one is not a total loser, you might be out a wife.

She has it in her character to cheat.


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## shecheatedVA

Although we didn't exchange formal vows, we made a long term commitment to each other. We lived together and were living together for a number of years. We had pets together, shared the bills, same life. We were exclusive minus the piece of paper. I was committed to her as a husband is to his wife. I expected the same in return. 

I believe not all people are serial cheaters. I'm sure there are those for whatever emotional reasons need the constant validation of another but I want to believe others make mistakes during extreme low points of their life. I hope it's the latter for my wife. For some people cheating is out of character. They were at extreme lowpoints and made bad decisions. I'm not trying to justify her behavior just making a statement based on my understanding and observation of people. For a lot, it's simply not that black and white. There is a grey area where people necessarily are in the black nor white.

I'm extremely hurt but not completely ready to throw in the towel. For those that say, just dump her, I ask how can you just let go of all those years of having a connection.

We had another long 3+ hour conversation where she went back and told me everything again. She cried and repeatedly apologized about how it was the biggest mistake she made. That she hasn't so much as flirted with another man since that one time. She says that experience solidified how much she cared for me. How much I was the person she loved. 

To her credit, she has done so much for me during our marriage. Although I've progressed much further, I haven't completely gotten over issues from childhood. I've had bouts of depression and low points in our relationship. She's been my rock. The person I could count on to help me. Build me up. Listen to my problems to the point where her own personal issues were never attended to. As I mentioned she's a wonderful mother to my children. She is very loving, caring and puts 100% in making sure they are cared for. She's a good house wife too. Cooks and cleans. Does the grocery shopping. Makes time for me. Listens to me. Makes love to me numerous times a week. Gives me blowjobs. Let me give it to her in all orifices etc. 

It's the fact it's so good with us that makes it that much harder to understand and get over.


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## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> Although we didn't exchange formal vows, we made a long term commitment to each other. We lived together and were living together for a number of years. We had pets together, shared the bills, same life. We were exclusive minus the piece of paper. I was committed to her as a husband is to his wife. I expected the same in return.
> 
> I believe not all people are serial cheaters. I'm sure there are those for whatever emotional reasons need the constant validation of another but I want to believe others make mistakes during extreme low points of their life. I hope it's the latter for my wife. For some people cheating is out of character. They were at extreme lowpoints and made bad decisions. I'm not trying to justify her behavior just making a statement based on my understanding and observation of people. For a lot, it's simply not that black and white. There is a grey area where people necessarily are in the black nor white.
> 
> I'm extremely hurt but not completely ready to throw in the towel. For those that say, just dump her, I ask how can you just let go of all those years of having a connection.
> 
> We had another long 3+ hour conversation where she went back and told me everything again. She cried and repeatedly apologized about how it was the biggest mistake she made. That she hasn't so much as flirted with another man since that one time. She says that experience solidified how much she cared for me. How much I was the person she loved.
> 
> To her credit, she has done so much for me during our marriage. Although I've progressed much further, I haven't completely gotten over issues from childhood. I've had bouts of depression and low points in our relationship. She's been my rock. The person I could count on to help me. Build me up. Listen to my problems to the point where her own personal issues were never attended to. As I mentioned she's a wonderful mother to my children. She is very loving, caring and puts 100% in making sure they are cared for. She's a good house wife too. Cooks and cleans. Does the grocery shopping. Makes time for me. Listens to me. Makes love to me numerous times a week. Gives me blowjobs. Let me give it to her in all orifices etc.
> 
> It's the fact it's so good with us that makes it that much harder to understand and get over.


As cliche as it sounds, it's who we are at our lowest moments that truly define us. As much as I'd like to believe, from my experience, the core of who we are doesn't really change throughout adulthood. People don't change.

Your wife is following the basic cheater script - remorse, crying, saying the other guy and sex wasn't as good as you, trust me, it's nothing new. Her previous actions and inactions say otherwise.

She cornered you into the WORST position imaginable in 15 years. I truly do feel for you. But it's just so convenient to keep the status quo - wife, kids, home. 

Most people would stay in your place but know that the hurt she inflicted on you will never go away in this lifetime. The triggers will never go away. The feeling of 15 years "wasted" without your your potential soul mate will never go away. This regret will be the worst part. There won't be a day that doesn't go by where her face won't remind you what she did. Trust in your marriage is also totally out the window in my opinion. You will resent her because it's just not fair. She gets to cheat and lie and keep everything the way it is while you have to live with the anguish? 

You will probably use the affair trump card (why shouldn't you?) to any heated arguments you have from now on and she will grow resentful of that.

You can stay but just be mindful of all that the future will bring.


----------



## AngryandUsed

How are you verifying what she said? What is your level of trust?

Is there more than what she said?

I know there are kids and a 15 years marriage. 

Go and see the newbies link. The first thread in CWI forum.

Go and see your doctor.

Take a good care of yourself. The shock and resultant pain takes time to enter your system.

When I came to know, I could not sleep, eat well. Lost weight. Walked like a skeleton.

I could not apply myself properly to work.

So, listen to others, dude. You are one month away. When I was there, all I knew was misery and suffering.....


----------



## fallensoldier

So, his "lousy" sex skills made her go back for seconds and thirds. And his "lousy" sex acts made her realize "what you mean to her" and then she decided to bury her past, have kids, a faithful, loving husband --- the typical lifestyle that a faithful, woman of good morals, should want/deserves. 

I'm wondering --- had wham bam bang me 3xs guy (results: ick sex) had he been "Oooo!" in bed, rocked her world and the whole nine yards, where would you be in the pic right now??? Exbf? Hmm, just food for thought.


----------



## snap

boogie110 said:


> But I will say I think you are over reacting. Most people going thru infidelity are married during it or living together at least, I don't know maybe you were living together, but you weren't married. You didn't say any VOWS....


There are reasonable expectations of fidelity that come with committed relationships, that's what the whole "committed" part is about.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

fallensoldier said:


> So, his "lousy" sex skills made her go back for seconds and thirds. And his "lousy" sex acts made her realize "what you mean to her" and then she decided to bury her past, have kids, a faithful, loving husband --- the typical lifestyle that a faithful, woman of good morals, should want/deserves.
> 
> I'm wondering --- had wham bam bang me 3xs guy (results: ick sex) had he been "Oooo!" in bed, rocked her world and the whole nine yards, where would you be in the pic right now??? Exbf? Hmm, just food for thought.


This.


----------



## Wazza

jameskimp said:


> As cliche as it sounds, it's who we are at our lowest moments that truly define us. As much as I'd like to believe, from my experience, the core of who we are doesn't really change throughout adulthood. People don't change.
> 
> Your wife is following the basic cheater script - remorse, crying, saying the other guy and sex wasn't as good as you, trust me, it's nothing new. Her previous actions and inactions say otherwise.
> 
> She cornered you into the WORST position imaginable in 15 years. I truly do feel for you. But it's just so convenient to keep the status quo - wife, kids, home.
> 
> Most people would stay in your place but know that the hurt she inflicted on you will never go away in this lifetime. The triggers will never go away. The feeling of 15 years "wasted" without your your potential soul mate will never go away. This regret will be the worst part. There won't be a day that doesn't go by where her face won't remind you what she did. Trust in your marriage is also totally out the window in my opinion. You will resent her because it's just not fair. She gets to cheat and lie and keep everything the way it is while you have to live with the anguish?
> 
> You will probably use the affair trump card (why shouldn't you?) to any heated arguments you have from now on and she will grow resentful of that.
> 
> You can stay but just be mindful of all that the future will bring.


That is not my experience. My experience is much better than what you describe.

How long have you been reconciled? Maybe if it is recent you are still working through things?


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> Although we didn't exchange formal vows, we made a long term commitment to each other. We lived together and were living together for a number of years. We had pets together, shared the bills, same life. We were exclusive minus the piece of paper. I was committed to her as a husband is to his wife. I expected the same in return.
> 
> I believe not all people are serial cheaters. I'm sure there are those for whatever emotional reasons need the constant validation of another but I want to believe others make mistakes during extreme low points of their life. I hope it's the latter for my wife. For some people cheating is out of character. They were at extreme lowpoints and made bad decisions. I'm not trying to justify her behavior just making a statement based on my understanding and observation of people. For a lot, it's simply not that black and white. There is a grey area where people necessarily are in the black nor white.
> 
> I'm extremely hurt but not completely ready to throw in the towel. For those that say, just dump her, I ask how can you just let go of all those years of having a connection.
> 
> We had another long 3+ hour conversation where she went back and told me everything again. She cried and repeatedly apologized about how it was the biggest mistake she made. That she hasn't so much as flirted with another man since that one time. She says that experience solidified how much she cared for me. How much I was the person she loved.
> 
> To her credit, she has done so much for me during our marriage. Although I've progressed much further, I haven't completely gotten over issues from childhood. I've had bouts of depression and low points in our relationship. She's been my rock. The person I could count on to help me. Build me up. Listen to my problems to the point where her own personal issues were never attended to. As I mentioned she's a wonderful mother to my children. She is very loving, caring and puts 100% in making sure they are cared for. She's a good house wife too. Cooks and cleans. Does the grocery shopping. Makes time for me. Listens to me. Makes love to me numerous times a week. Gives me blowjobs. Let me give it to her in all orifices etc.
> 
> It's the fact it's so good with us that makes it that much harder to understand and get over.


I suspect everything you need to know to make your decision is in this post.


----------



## costa200

> I believe not all people are serial cheaters. I'm sure there are those for whatever emotional reasons need the constant validation of another but I want to believe others make mistakes during extreme low points of their life. I hope it's the latter for my wife. For some people cheating is out of character.


People for whom cheating is "out of character" don't cheat. Read through a good amount of the threads of people who have been where you are now and notice the following trend among cheating wives:

1- Minimization of actions and trickle truth (we just talked, we just made out, he just went down on me, i just gave him a bJ, we have sex once and i didn't like it, we had sex twice and it wasn't good, we had sex every week for a year but was never good);

2- Telling the betrayed spouse that the affair made them understood how special they are, and unique and their soulmate (how funny is it to have to bang other people to find that out);

3- At one point swearing on their kids that it was there is when backed into it;

4- Betrayed spouse starts digging more and finds out more to it. More details, more affair partners, further proofs of unfaithful behavior, including sharing intimate details of the betrayed spouse, including dark confessional secrets with the affair partners. 

5- When everything else fails resort to blaming the betrayed spouse for it. With crap like "you didn't pay enough attention to me" and such tripe. 


In the end you have one thing you can count on. She will lie about everything she can lie about in an attempt to minimize consequences.

I fully support your decision to make it work. But be sure to make it so that you can really count on not finding out more crap. Every time you find more stuff you will be back to square one. Honesty is paramount but you cannot expect it. Confirm what she tells you with a third and fourth source. If she is now being honest, 15 years later, then she will not squirm over it. If she does, if she stonewalls you now, you know, there is further dirt to be had.



> But I will say I think you are over reacting. Most people going thru infidelity are married during it or living together at least, I don't know maybe you were living together, but you weren't married. You didn't say any VOWS....


I shudder when i think some people actually think "vows" mean that you get a clean slate. It doesn't work that way. In fact that way of thinking basically destroys relationships. And the kind of person that thinks that the absence of formal vows means you're still free to sleep around is not one i would respect.


----------



## Wazza

costa200 said:


> People for whom cheating is "out of character" don't cheat. Read through a good amount of the threads of people who have been where you are now and notice the following trend among cheating wives:
> 
> 1- Minimization of actions and trickle truth (we just talked, we just made out, he just went down on me, i just gave him a bJ, we have sex once and i didn't like it, we had sex twice and it wasn't good, we had sex every week for a year but was never good);
> 
> 2- Telling the betrayed spouse that the affair made them understood how special they are, and unique and their soulmate (how funny is it to have to bang other people to find that out);
> 
> 3- At one point swearing on their kids that it was there is when backed into it;
> 
> 4- Betrayed spouse starts digging more and finds out more to it. More details, more affair partners, further proofs of unfaithful behavior, including sharing intimate details of the betrayed spouse, including dark confessional secrets with the affair partners.
> 
> 5- When everything else fails resort to blaming the betrayed spouse for it. With crap like "you didn't pay enough attention to me" and such tripe.
> 
> 
> In the end you have one thing you can count on. She will lie about everything she can lie about in an attempt to minimize consequences.
> 
> I fully support your decision to make it work. But be sure to make it so that you can really count on not finding out more crap. Every time you find more stuff you will be back to square one. Honesty is paramount but you cannot expect it. Confirm what she tells you with a third and fourth source. If she is now being honest, 15 years later, then she will not squirm over it. If she does, if she stonewalls you now, you know, there is further dirt to be had.


After fifteen years it is very hard to verify what actually happened. A lot of the common evidence now didn't exist back then. Email trails, cellphone logs, etc. Memories have become clouded. How would you suggestbOP determine truth?

And yes they lie sometimes, that is human nature. But not always. Some lie habitually. But not all.

OPs wife admitted it, she didn't have to. There was nothing else about to leak the secret, just her own conscience. It didn't seem to me she was backed into it. There is no evidence to support reasonable suspicion of multiple partners in what we have been told.

Are you saying OP should presume guilt anyway? I can point you to stories on TAM that don't fit your mold. Starting with my own.


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## rrrbbbttt

There are several things here that you have to deal with and get your arms about:

1. Were you the Fall Back Guy, Yes she chose you but she did go to the other man and was not honest with you when she came back. Did she finally realize that this guy would not be the Greatest Catch and decided to go back to you the "Safe" Guy. Does not matter what she does from now on that thought will always be with you.

2. No matter what is stated it was not a mistake. Three times is not a mistake it is a choice. Three times is a commitment to another person. If she was so sure that the one time was a mistake the next two times would not have occurred. Sorry, that is the truth. That is some serious mind mojo that you have to deal with. She may be everything to you now in what you have stated but there was a time when she did not give a S**T about how her actions would effect you. You have to deal with this. 

Any trust that you have is now gone and will have to be rebuilt, it will never be the same. 

She is probably as you say a Great wife but for now on you will always have that wound in your mind that will be opened at the Drop of a Hat.

Unfortunately, you and HER, have to come up with a way to deal with this. It will not be easy.

Some have stated here, it was 15 years ago, just get over it. No, it is not that easy. The marriage and commitment you thought you had with her is now gone and depending on how each of you deals with this something new will be developed. Not the same but different, maybe better, maybe worse.

Is she truly remorseful? Tears and emotions when it is found out is not remorse, remorse is her doing the Heavy lifting now for you to heal.

This wound is as previously stated 2 fold, were you the fall back guy and she settled for you because she could not trust the other guy and also why did she go back at least 3 times?

Good Luck


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

folks spare the 2x4 for the BS in fog, He is level headed IMO.

You can do a polygraph to show her that you don't trust her. 
She is in damage control and minimizing the A. Polygraph MAY give you some peace of mind.


----------



## shecheatedVA

Could the things you guys are describing be actual responses to spouses who ARE telling the truth? Could it actually be that having sex with the other man actually made them realize what their relationships and you meant to her/him? Can you fathom the sex might of been bad if the comfort/security of a stranger didn't match the type of bond a married couple might have? Is it possible that someone who do something outside of their character? I know many people who have done things in times of extreme duress or stress that necessarily wouldn't define their character. Again - not trying to justify or minimize her behavior. It was abominable and totally disgusting. It went against every grain of our being and commitment to each other. 

I ask you good folks what would be her reasoning to lie now? This occurred 15 years ago. All evidence and most people are gone. She had basically gotten away with it. I had no clue. The guy has been long gone. There aren't any people who know. There aren't any e-mails, text messages, photos to be found. Why would she lie to me now? Doesn't it make sense that she couldn't deal with carrying the guilt of this? Could it be that she actually felt true remorse and pain from going out of line with her character? I know her and feel that she wouldn't be able to do that to me over and over again (i hope but really can't be sure since I thought she'd never be able to do this in the first place). What could she possibly gain from lying from me know?

I really appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. They are helping me more than you know. I just have to keep reminding myself many of you are very bitter (and rightfully so) due to your own spouse's indirections. One size doesn't fit all but I'm sure there are patterns that exist which are common amongst us all. 

Please keep them coming. They provide food for thought and help me deal with some of the anguish that I feel.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

The issues are as previously stated:

1. Were you the fall back guy? Yes, she is now with you and probably thinks that you are a Great guy and she made the right choice, but were you the ONE then? Did she just settle? Big blow to one's ego and even though it is great now, did you want to build that with someone who was questioning her commitment to you and would you have rather been with someone who was 100% into you? Tough question.

2. You stated you were drinking, she did not come clean when she was sober, it was a moment when she let her defenses down and now you know about it. Big violation of Trust with you that will never be the same.

Why did she not tell you prior to this time? The only way you found out she was drunk and thought that she would get away with it because it happened a long time ago and you were drunk so she thought you would not have minded.

Question, were you true to her the whole time you were involved in the relationship? If not, she may perceive that since it was okay for you it should have been okay for her. This does not make it alright just throwing some illogical reasoning that some people use that seems to make it okay for them to do these things.

On the question of lying, as she told you, even in the drunken state, she probably perceived your reaction. So is she now being truthful or is she trying to minimize the damage? She nows this is dangerous ground, if she knows you as well as you say she does, she may be couching her response of her actions 15 years ago to minimize the effect it has on you. 

The truth is out, you do not know what really happened, only she does and the OM. The limitation on the information is controlled by her and she has a vested interest in this situation.

Also, the 3 times is still a major hurdle that you have to overcome. I really do not know how this is adequately explained away. She may be telling you what she perceives as what you want to hear in a manner that lessens the damage to her.

Again, difficult thoughts and mind images you will have to deal with


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## giashasa2012

Guard your self from us , we are bitter and angry people ,people that have been hurt . 

WS are to us like a red rag to a bull

We like absolutes and we like black and white it makes thinks simple , and maybe that is the reason that we are bs that we don't cheat . But this type of thought process has it's limitation , it creates a tunnel vision and we ignore what is left and right of us 

I am one of those who are quick to say divorce, but at your case i will say give your self time , don't rush things. 

If you want to find out if she is telling you the truth , a lie detector test would be helpful


----------



## giashasa2012

michzz said:


> Why? because she has to pay a price for Evil.
> 
> moving on.


..Evil a very big word


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA said:


> Could the things you guys are describing be actual responses to spouses who ARE telling the truth? Could it actually be that having sex with the other man actually made them realize what their relationships and you meant to her/him? Can you fathom the sex might of been bad if the comfort/security of a stranger didn't match the type of bond a married couple might have? Is it possible that someone who do something outside of their character? I know many people who have done things in times of extreme duress or stress that necessarily wouldn't define their character. Again - not trying to justify or minimize her behavior. It was abominable and totally disgusting. It went against every grain of our being and commitment to each other.
> 
> I ask you good folks what would be her reasoning to lie now? This occurred 15 years ago. All evidence and most people are gone. She had basically gotten away with it. I had no clue. The guy has been long gone. There aren't any people who know. There aren't any e-mails, text messages, photos to be found. Why would she lie to me now? Doesn't it make sense that she couldn't deal with carrying the guilt of this? Could it be that she actually felt true remorse and pain from going out of line with her character? I know her and feel that she wouldn't be able to do that to me over and over again (i hope but really can't be sure since I thought she'd never be able to do this in the first place). What could she possibly gain from lying from me know?
> 
> I really appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. They are helping me more than you know. I just have to keep reminding myself many of you are very bitter (and rightfully so) due to your own spouse's indirections. One size doesn't fit all but I'm sure there are patterns that exist which are common amongst us all.
> 
> Please keep them coming. They provide food for thought and help me deal with some of the anguish that I feel.


What would be her reason to lie now? How about your reaction to what she has already admitted. If there is more to the story or if she has been unfaithful more than that one time she knows if she tells you her marriage is over. I'm not saying there is more but that would be a huge reason to trickle truth you.

As for her getting away with it. The truth always comes out. Surely she is not the only one that knows what occurred right? All these years she was terrified that you would find out. Now after building a life together complete with children she chooses to tell you because she knows it won't be so easy for you to just walk away. She is in the best position she can be to tell you AND probably save her marriage. But she is only going to tell you what she has to. This way if more does come out she can simply say it was 15 years ago and she doesn't remember it all.

And no I don't believe having sex with another man gives a woman some insight into what they really want. Sleeping with someone doesn't bring on some epiphany that illuminates your love for another. Especially when you go back more than once in order to have that epiphany. They don't occur in stages do they? I really think you are seeking to justify your wife's behavior in order to try to forgive her for her transgressions. But its not going to work. The thoughts will always be with you and if you do not deal with this situation correctly it will haunt you forever.

You imply that many people are bitter and that you are taking their words with a grain of salt. While it might be true that many have been hurt by their spouses I would suggest that it would give them a keener insight into what you should be looking for and the pitfalls to avoid. Everyone who comes on TAM always thinks their situation is different. However those that have been here for a long time know that there are telltale signs and flags to look for and inevitably they prove to be correct more often than not. Ignore their wisdom at your peril.


----------



## MVIRGE7210

Say what u want about my advice but I'm in a TERRIFIC marriage and happy as all get out!  If God can FORGIVE then why not us?! Yes she was wrong but we ALL make mistakes. God forgives those who do likewise.


----------



## the guy

shecheatedVA said:


> Makes love to me numerous times a week. Gives me blowjobs. Let me give it to her in all orifices etc.
> 
> .




Speaking of forgiveness, the above quote says it all.

Forgive this women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But thats just me


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> Speaking of forgiveness, the above quote says it all.
> 
> Forgive this women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But thats just me


I would say then forgive her get some ic 2 sessions and move on if things are that good.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

mis·take
   [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb, mis·took, mis·tak·en, mis·tak·ing. 

noun 
1. 
an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc. 

2. 
a misunderstanding or misconception.


Is 3 times a mistake?


----------



## the guy

MVIRGE7210 said:


> Say what u want about my advice but I'm in a TERRIFIC marriage and happy as all get out!  If God can FORGIVE then why not us?! Yes she was wrong but we ALL make mistakes. God forgives those who do likewise.


This was not a mistake, it was a very bad choice. She made a bad choice and thank God he forgives us, cuz there are alot a betrayed spouse that won't.


It sucks living with this kind of betrayal, it jacks us up for a long time.


----------



## the guy

shecheatedVA said:


> Can you fathom the sex might of been bad if the comfort/security of a stranger didn't match the type of bond a married couple might have? .


Hers my perspective on this question.

In my wifes case out of the 20 OM, 1 was good and 1 was great. So 18 OM the sex was bad, it was on the run, it was uncomfortable, it was better to give it then have it taken, and it was just the currentcy she paid for the friendship the OM's offered.

So ya its possible that the bond a married couple has, can effect the sex in the affair for chicks (in some cases), I think chicks need more of an emotional connection in the affair to enjoy the sex (in some cases).

In your case your old lady felt like crap and stopped,learned a lesson. In my wifes case the 1st time was painful but just kept having sex as it got easier and easer....or should I say less emotionaly painful.


----------



## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> I feel like I married under false pretenses. Had I known about the cheating I wouldn't have married her for sure. I think the marriage itself is authentic. We loved and cared for each other (at least from my perspective). She's a great mother and a very supporting wife. I'd like to believe that what she's told me - that was COMPLETELY out of character for her and that she was a young, dumb, immature girl who didn't understand how much she really loved me, is the truth.
> 
> I respect myself very highly which is causing me to question if I should stay or leave. I feel like a played out chump who go duped. I never strayed even though I had opportunities. My love and commitment including the thought of hurting her never got me even remotely close. Now I'm wondering if all that was wasted for nothing?


VA, this is not going to resolve quickly for you no matter what.

My wife lied to me from the beginning. We met in college, married after graduation, been married now 30 years. I found out a year or so ago about major stuff she omitted or outright lied about from day one. And then the lies were continued for all those years by not being corrected when there was obvious opportunity (i.e. the general subject coming up). Just keeping the secrets was keeping the lies going.

I completely understand your feelings right now. I did not know what to believe. I couldn't trust anything or anybody. I couldn't trust my own observations or judgment because I had been fooled for so long.

Also, my rock bottom belief system about my wife was destroyed. She was not who I thought she was. Instead of believing she is trustworthy, I now know she finds it acceptable to lie to me about significant things in order to get the outcome she wants.

I agree with the statements that the marriage has been based on lies, and thus it has been a sham from day one. It also destroys trust every bit as much as if the affair happened last week rather than before you were married. 

To me it isn't the sex part it is the lie. The sex is important. The sex is part of defining her. But if she had been with this guy before you ever met her it would not be a marriage threatening event. It is her lies about it.

So your recovery is going to be along the same trajectory as if she recently had an extra-marital affair. I suggest you read books such as "After the Affair". Approach this with her as a project to rebuild trust, which means she has a lot of heavy lifting to do. *Do not* rug sweep this. Treat it as infidelity, because _it is infidelity_ that she lied to you.


----------



## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> Could the things you guys are describing be actual responses to spouses who ARE telling the truth? Could it actually be that having sex with the other man actually made them realize what their relationships and you meant to her/him? Can you fathom the sex might of been bad if the comfort/security of a stranger didn't match the type of bond a married couple might have? Is it possible that someone who do something outside of their character? I know many people who have done things in times of extreme duress or stress that necessarily wouldn't define their character. Again - not trying to justify or minimize her behavior. It was abominable and totally disgusting. It went against every grain of our being and commitment to each other.
> 
> I ask you good folks what would be her reasoning to lie now? This occurred 15 years ago. All evidence and most people are gone. She had basically gotten away with it. I had no clue. The guy has been long gone. There aren't any people who know. There aren't any e-mails, text messages, photos to be found. Why would she lie to me now? Doesn't it make sense that she couldn't deal with carrying the guilt of this? Could it be that she actually felt true remorse and pain from going out of line with her character? I know her and feel that she wouldn't be able to do that to me over and over again (i hope but really can't be sure since I thought she'd never be able to do this in the first place). What could she possibly gain from lying from me know?
> 
> I really appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. They are helping me more than you know. I just have to keep reminding myself many of you are very bitter (and rightfully so) due to your own spouse's indirections. One size doesn't fit all but I'm sure there are patterns that exist which are common amongst us all.
> 
> Please keep them coming. They provide food for thought and help me deal with some of the anguish that I feel.


She would lie because the details are important. She would lie because she's been lying for 15 years!

Everyone believes THEIR spouse could never do such a thing. Until they come to this forum seeking help...

This might be a haven for betrayed and bitter spouses but you are in that group now. So listen carefully to everyone here because, more than likely, someone's lived the life you are going to live. Learn from their mistakes.


----------



## snap

shecheatedVA said:


> Could the things you guys are describing be actual responses to spouses who ARE telling the truth? Could it actually be that having sex with the other man actually made them realize what their relationships and you meant to her/him? Can you fathom the sex might of been bad if the comfort/security of a stranger didn't match the type of bond a married couple might have? Is it possible that someone who do something outside of their character?


Yes to all points. It could be. Problem is, it's the case with damn nearly every WS story we get to hear here. Let me quote myself from a year ago here:



snap said:


> The sex wasn't even that good, the OM had performance anxiety every other time, intercourses were short without much foreplay, and the springs on his bed are loud and uncomfortable. They used condoms most of the time


Sounds familiar, iinit? And it's not just my case. It's like they all cheat with the same dude. How could apparently everyone in extramarital affairs be below the average in bed?


----------



## shecheatedVA

But could the performance anxiety be possibly a common symptom for those men? Could they possibly feel any sense of remorse or have an issue sleeping with someone else's wife? Talking is talking but when it comes to sex, the mind and body will [email protected] with you and will stop you if you're not in alignment. Just some food for thought. 

I asked her why it took 3 times to realize that I was the one. Her reply was that she was at a very lowpoint in her life. She wanted out of the relationship. The OM kept telling her well you've already done it once so do it again. She said the experience wasn't enjoyable because she knew she was doing something wrong. She wasn't able to completely let go. She wanted to believe the words that he said to her matched how she would feel intimately. It was then she realized the words were just that. Something that allowed her to escape the problems we were having. The sex was sh1t got real. 

I knew this guy. He was pathetic. Out of shape, heavy drinker, cocaine abuser slob self deprecating [email protected] He used his words and fake intellect as a means to seem worthy. Maybe under all that fat, he was hung like a stud. Maybe his fat overweight frame actually allowed him to be swift and move like a fox in the bed. Who knows. All I know is what she's telling me and she says it was bad. It wasn't until the very last time, when he felt like he was losing her, he actually attempted to do anything to satisfy her. That's when he tried to go down on her and then use his hands to make her O which was a futile attempt.

There are many things common amongst the stories and replies I've gotten from people here and other sites. I'm just trying to figure out is the stuff like "I didn't tell you cause I didn't want to hurt you" and the "Sex wasn't as good as us", realistic common themes that cheaters experience or is it just a common defense?


----------



## Kasler

^ Many of that is important, but not the point at hand.

The length, value of the relationship is meaningless. 

The question is, can you accept the relationship eventhough its foundation was a lie? That you can get past(not bury) the fact that she took the choice of your potential future out of your hands by lying about it to protect herself? 

This is a huge hurdle, and quite frankly anyone telling you "But the more years and 10 of marriage were good so accept it" are not getting the picture as thats not the crux of the matter.

The meat of the matter is can you accept her and trust her again in the future despite her omitting the truth and founding the marriage upon lies?

Yes or No determines your next action. 

Its a hard question, and it will take you longer than you think to find the answer.


----------



## Broken at 20

Here is a question. 

If you manage to somehow overcome this, and all the mind movies that come with it, will you be able to look at her, and say:

I love you 
And mean it with your heart

And 
Will you be proud to call her your wife?


----------



## Wazza

2asdf2 said:


> The problem with the information you have is that it matches 97.4332% the average admission statements made by 98.5619% of WWs on this board.


But you must remember that 96.4% of Internet statistics are made up.

I question your number.


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> But could the performance anxiety be possibly a common symptom for those men? Could they possibly feel any sense of remorse or have an issue sleeping with someone else's wife? Talking is talking but when it comes to sex, the mind and body will [email protected] with you and will stop you if you're not in alignment. Just some food for thought.
> 
> I asked her why it took 3 times to realize that I was the one. Her reply was that she was at a very lowpoint in her life. She wanted out of the relationship. The OM kept telling her well you've already done it once so do it again. She said the experience wasn't enjoyable because she knew she was doing something wrong. She wasn't able to completely let go. She wanted to believe the words that he said to her matched how she would feel intimately. It was then she realized the words were just that. Something that allowed her to escape the problems we were having. The sex was sh1t got real.
> 
> I knew this guy. He was pathetic. Out of shape, heavy drinker, cocaine abuser slob self deprecating [email protected] He used his words and fake intellect as a means to seem worthy. Maybe under all that fat, he was hung like a stud. Maybe his fat overweight frame actually allowed him to be swift and move like a fox in the bed. Who knows. All I know is what she's telling me and she says it was bad. It wasn't until the very last time, when he felt like he was losing her, he actually attempted to do anything to satisfy her. That's when he tried to go down on her and then use his hands to make her O which was a futile attempt.
> 
> There are many things common amongst the stories and replies I've gotten from people here and other sites. I'm just trying to figure out is the stuff like "I didn't tell you cause I didn't want to hurt you" and the "Sex wasn't as good as us", realistic common themes that cheaters experience or is it just a common defense?


I could well believe that guilt often makes the experience not pleasurable for the cheating partner, but I don't know.

I could well believe that your wife is incredibly conflicted...a desire to be honest with you conflicting with a desire to not say anything more to hurt you combined with fear of what this might cost her and genuine disgust at herself for what she has done. She is human. I am describing my wife here, as well as maybe yours.

So for me, if sex with OM wasn't as bad as she said, so what? She still chose you. That is the ultimate proof.

On the other hand, if she goes out every weekend and does entire football teams, well that might change things. You have to work it out.

The other thing is, people learn from life. Maybe she was your rock at low times precisely because she had this experience and learned from it.

I also have to say, I am arguing the positive side in my posts. That doesn't mean I don't get the difficulties. It's just that so many people want to talk up the negatives no need for me to.

Will you be happy without her? What is your strategy to find someone better? No marriage is perfect. What is you walk away point?


----------



## shecheatedVA

Wazza said:


> I could well believe that your wife is incredibly conflicted...a desire to be honest with you conflicting with a desire to not say anything more to hurt you combined with fear of what this might cost her and genuine disgust at herself for what she has done. She is human. I am describing my wife here, as well as maybe yours.


I truly want to believe that she was and now just wants the truth to get out. In the past few years, we've tried really hard to become spiritual people (read spiritual but not religious per se). To become free you must be able to be true to yourself and others around you. Her ego and guilt keep chipping away at her self identity. She isn't the type of girl to go cheat and especially not hurt anyone or anything especially people that she love. That stain from the past has ridden her with guilt but she kept it quite because she didn't want to inflict any hurt on us. At that point, she realized it was something that she had to deal with and ultimately be punished with. Although she did it TO me she also did it to herself at the expense of her soul/ego beating her up daily. She had promised herself that if I ever asked her again, she would come forward with the truth. It was that night when after a few drinks i inquired about her faithfulness and she came out with the truth. 



Wazza said:


> So for me, if sex with OM wasn't as bad as she said, so what? She still chose you. That is the ultimate proof.


I hear you on this but also doesn't help the mid movies. I am a man after all. Even though I'm confident on who I am, it devastates me thinking about her experiencing pleasure from another. Maybe I haven't grown enough to see that her soul still belongs to me. That she gave her body to someone 3 times for probably at most 3 hours. Is 3 hours worth giving up 10 years of marriage and a life together. I still haven't decided nor do I feel I'm in a position to make such a decision.



Wazza said:


> On the other hand, if she goes out every weekend and does entire football teams, well that might change things. You have to work it out.


From what I've seen she hasn't as so much as flirted with another man. Maybe she's an actress worthy of an Oscar but something tells me she is/has been committed but you never know?



Wazza said:


> The other thing is, people learn from life. Maybe she was your rock at low times precisely because she had this experience and learned from it.


People do grow. I've grown exponentially in the last 15 years and have changed from the person I use to be. My core and character is the same but life lessons have made me a better person. Shouldn't I give her the benefit of growth as well?



Wazza said:


> I also have to say, I am arguing the positive side in my posts. That doesn't mean I don't get the difficulties. It's just that so many people want to talk up the negatives no need for me to.


I appreciate you doing that. No matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has 2 sides. I don't only want to hear reason on how terrible her actions were but also would like to hear at least some stories, comments and feedback where couples were able to move past this. I might not be able to but I'd like to know for the ones that were able to, what did they do?


----------



## costa200

snap said:


> Yes to all points. It could be. Problem is, it's the case with damn nearly every WS story we get to hear here. Let me quote myself from a year ago here:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds familiar, iinit? And it's not just my case. It's like they all cheat with the same dude. How could apparently everyone in extramarital affairs be below the average in bed?


It is apparently a wondrous coincidence!  



> I could well believe that guilt often makes the experience not pleasurable for the cheating partner, but I don't know.


It's a common story they TELL their betrayed spouses. I'm terribly skeptic about that. Specially with the ones who do it over and over again.


----------



## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> I truly want to believe that she was and now just wants the truth to get out. In the past few years, we've tried really hard to become spiritual people (read spiritual but not religious per se). To become free you must be able to be true to yourself and others around you. Her ego and guilt keep chipping away at her self identity. *She isn't the type of girl to go cheat and especially not hurt anyone or anything especially people that she love*. That stain from the past has ridden her with guilt but *she kept it quite because she didn't want to inflict any hurt on us*. At that point, she realized it was something that she had to deal with and ultimately be punished with. *Although she did it TO me she also did it to herself at the expense of her soul/ego beating her up daily*. She had promised herself that if I ever asked her again, she would come forward with the truth. It was that night when after a few drinks i inquired about her faithfulness and she came out with the truth.


First off I want to just point out that what she did was before you were married, though you thought you were exclusive. Yes it was cheating, but it was before the wedding and thus is _slightly_ less of an infraction. I think she does get a tiny bit of relief due to that.

Secondly, you just found out. Which means it feels to you like it just happened. Realize that this is going to be a process you go through over the next year or two before things will settle into a new normal for you. It is ok to be conflicted. You will ride the roller coaster.

Thirdly the bolded parts in your quote above. She _was_ the type of girl to cheat. Cheating is known to hurt the betrayed. She may not have it in her to cheat today. She may have learned her lesson. But she definitely was able to cheat and inflict hurt to you back then.

She kept it quiet _to protect her own selfish interests_. She may rationalize it that she was protecting you, but she was not. She knew you might choose to break up with her if you were able to make a fully informed decision. So she choose intentionally to deprive you of the right to make that fully informed decision about your own life. Lying and deceiving have been intentional acts on her part, just as much as the cheating was. None of this was done for your good!

At the time she cheated she was not thinking about you, even though she was in fact harming you. She _was_ thinking of herself and her own pleasure. She rewrites history when she says she has only suffered. I believe she may have guilt now. You are the best judge of her. But why did she wait over a decade to inform you? That is not the act of a person suffering daily with deep guilt. She likely compartmentalized it away. She could have told you at any moment but did not.

Your earlier posts were full of "she says..", "she believed...", "she felt...". All of these are based on what she tells you today. You cannot believe anything she says, only what she backs up with actions.

I think you two have an excellent chance at getting over this because you have had a good marriage, the affair was years ago, and it was before you were married. The reason I have posted a fairly harsh reply above is because a real reconciliation means her working hard at rebuilding trust, and you not allowing it to be rug swept. Your marriage is one of the few on this forum which seems to have a really good chance at recovery, so I don't want to see you squander it.

So how is she acting today? Is she remorseful about the affair itself? Is she remorseful that she did not tell you sooner? Does she express sincere sorrow at the hurt she has inflicted on you? Has she apologized? Has she asked what she can do now to help you get through this?


----------



## shecheatedVA

Thor said:


> So how is she acting today? Is she remorseful about the affair itself? Is she remorseful that she did not tell you sooner? Does she express sincere sorrow at the hurt she has inflicted on you? Has she apologized? Has she asked what she can do now to help you get through this?


She seems to be very authentic about her remorse. She feels extremely bad but hold true to that she didn't want to hurt me due to my fragile past and being the cause of pain. She had apologized multiple times while sobbing. She hasn't asked how she can help me through this.

I've told her a couple options 1) i leave for good 2) i stay but i get the opportunity to have an emotional and physical affair with someone else. As you can guess she didn't want #1 but surprisingly would rather have me do #2 vs. leaving. In a way she says she deserves it. I tell her there is no way for her to understand what I feel unless she personally has to deal with the fallout of an EA turned PA. She was more OK was just a PA but I told her I wanted to feel the same types of connection with an EA turned PA. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me believes that if I do this to her, it's all even. The other part sees it as a destroying my character. I went all these years w/o stepping out. 

After this experience, I find that I need to more validation for other women. Part of me really believes that having my own affair will allow her to be in my seat and see how easily she's able to get past it. The only difference she keeps saying is that we're married with kids where what she did was just us dating.


----------



## Acabado

Please, don't go there. Don't lower yourself.

Stay or go. Don't cheat.

Honesty doesn't preserve integrity.

Off this thread.


----------



## CH

shecheatedVA said:


> The only difference she keeps saying is that we're married with kids where what she did was just us dating.


Tell her if you had known this before, you WOULD NOT have married her. As to getting back at her, if you're at that point, just leave, don't sell your soul for revenge.

BTW, if you can't get over it, you just can't. There is nothing you can do to change your mind or make you try. You can rug sweep it and put on a fake smile if you want but is that what you really want?

Doesn't matter if it was 1 hour ago or 50 years ago, cheating is cheating and no matter how long it has been, it'll still hurt all the same.


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA said:


> She seems to be very authentic about her remorse. She feels extremely bad but hold true to that she didn't want to hurt me due to my fragile past and being the cause of pain. She had apologized multiple times while sobbing. She hasn't asked how she can help me through this.
> 
> I've told her a couple options 1) i leave for good 2) i stay but i get the opportunity to have an emotional and physical affair with someone else. As you can guess she didn't want #1 but surprisingly would rather have me do #2 vs. leaving. In a way she says she deserves it. I tell her there is no way for her to understand what I feel unless she personally has to deal with the fallout of an EA turned PA. She was more OK was just a PA but I told her I wanted to feel the same types of connection with an EA turned PA. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me believes that if I do this to her, it's all even. The other part sees it as a destroying my character. I went all these years w/o stepping out.
> 
> After this experience, I find that I need to more validation for other women. Part of me really believes that having my own affair will allow her to be in my seat and see how easily she's able to get past it. The only difference she keeps saying is that we're married with kids where what she did was just us dating.


First thing I need to say: If you have a revenge affair I predict you will be divorced in a year. Because then there will be two people who cannot be trusted and two people wallowing in their own misery and not able to help heal the other. If you want a divorce just get one. Don't put your family through this.

You need to take some time and process things. Your emotions are all over the place. You cannot make any rash decisions right now.


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> I truly want to believe that she was and now just wants the truth to get out. In the past few years, we've tried really hard to become spiritual people (read spiritual but not religious per se). To become free you must be able to be true to yourself and others around you. Her ego and guilt keep chipping away at her self identity. She isn't the type of girl to go cheat and especially not hurt anyone or anything especially people that she love. That stain from the past has ridden her with guilt but she kept it quite because she didn't want to inflict any hurt on us. At that point, she realized it was something that she had to deal with and ultimately be punished with. Although she did it TO me she also did it to herself at the expense of her soul/ego beating her up daily. She had promised herself that if I ever asked her again, she would come forward with the truth. It was that night when after a few drinks i inquired about her faithfulness and she came out with the truth.
> 
> 
> I hear you on this but also doesn't help the mid movies. I am a man after all. Even though I'm confident on who I am, it devastates me thinking about her experiencing pleasure from another. Maybe I haven't grown enough to see that her soul still belongs to me. That she gave her body to someone 3 times for probably at most 3 hours. Is 3 hours worth giving up 10 years of marriage and a life together. I still haven't decided nor do I feel I'm in a position to make such a decision.
> 
> 
> From what I've seen she hasn't as so much as flirted with another man. Maybe she's an actress worthy of an Oscar but something tells me she is/has been committed but you never know?
> 
> 
> People do grow. I've grown exponentially in the last 15 years and have changed from the person I use to be. My core and character is the same but life lessons have made me a better person. Shouldn't I give her the benefit of growth as well?
> 
> 
> I appreciate you doing that. No matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has 2 sides. I don't only want to hear reason on how terrible her actions were but also would like to hear at least some stories, comments and feedback where couples were able to move past this. I might not be able to but I'd like to know for the ones that were able to, what did they do?


The mind movies get better with time, but don't totally go away. Is it going to help with them to leave the woman who has been so much a part of my life, a part of me?


----------



## Wazza

2asdf2 said:


> My numbers are extremely reliable. To arrive at them I used the extraction method...  ... I pulled them out of my azz!
> 
> You probably used the same method yourself!
> 
> 
> (I was making a point -so subtle- that the OP missed it)
> .


I did not make my numbers up!!! I took them from a speech about the Internet I found on the Internet. The speech was made by Abraham Lincoln. 

One must always apply sanity checks to what one reads on the net....


----------



## mel123

shecheatedVA said:


> Question to you folks is - how I get her to tell me the details of the specific sex acts. I asked her about it and she says she's given it to me but no way close to the detail that I want to hear.


She may not honestly remember the details that long ago.But just remembers having sex and told you all she could remember


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> I've told her a couple options 1) i leave for good 2)* i stay but i get the opportunity to have an emotional and physical affair with someone else. As you can guess she didn't want #1 but surprisingly would rather have me do #2 vs. leaving. In a way she says she deserves it. I tell her there is no way for her to understand what I feel unless she personally has to deal with the fallout of an EA turned PA. She was more OK was just a PA but I told her I wanted to feel the same types of connection with an EA turned PA. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. *Part of me believes that if I do this to her, it's all even. The other part sees it as a destroying my character. I went all these years w/o stepping out.
> 
> *After this experience, I find that I need to more validation for other women. Part of me really believes that having my own affair will allow her to be in my seat and see how easily she's able to get past it. The only difference she keeps saying is that we're married with kids where what she did was just us dating.*


I'm a little blind on this thread because for some reason I can't read page 5 and 6 of this thread, so I'm not sure what I might have missed.

I have never been in your shoes. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that not only would you be no better than your wife if you pursue a revenge affair, but you would be worse scum than your wife. Why do I say that? Because when she cheated - before you 2 were married btw - she only hurt you. If you cheat on her and - SURPRISE, find out you REALLY connected with the OW - you will be hurting not only her but your children as well. Why would you want to stir up more pain and tension for your children to observe first hand?

Get a hold of yourself and get your head out of your ASS! You have the moral high ground. Don't lose your self respect just to "get even". You still have to live with yourself at the end of the day, and what you propose is NOT spiritually good at all. Just because your wife decided to wallow in the mud, there is no need for you to follow her into the mud hole...


----------



## mel123

boogie110 said:


> shecheatedVA said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't married, no ring, no wedding, no vows...where's the commitment. There really wasn't one - that is why there is marriage. And this is called Talk About Marriage. You weren't married. Aside from that you were in college
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> Nearly all college students while young and dumb do stupid things . They may be intelligent & smart mentally, but they have little wisdom and are learning about life, and don't really understand the consequences of their actions. They are children in adult bodies.
Click to expand...


----------



## MattMatt

> I thought I had to know these things but now I can't stop replaying the story over and over again.


Is this why I instinctively never asked for ANY details? you know, I think it is...


----------



## warlock07

shecheatedVA said:


> She seems to be very authentic about her remorse. She feels extremely bad but hold true to that she didn't want to hurt me due to my fragile past and being the cause of pain. She had apologized multiple times while sobbing. She hasn't asked how she can help me through this.
> 
> I've told her a couple options 1) i leave for good 2) i stay but i get the opportunity to have an emotional and physical affair with someone else. As you can guess she didn't want #1 but surprisingly would rather have me do #2 vs. leaving. In a way she says she deserves it. I tell her there is no way for her to understand what I feel unless she personally has to deal with the fallout of an EA turned PA. She was more OK was just a PA but I told her I wanted to feel the same types of connection with an EA turned PA. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me believes that if I do this to her, it's all even. The other part sees it as a destroying my character. I went all these years w/o stepping out.
> 
> After this experience, I find that I need to more validation for other women. Part of me really believes that having my own affair will allow her to be in my seat and see how easily she's able to get past it. The only difference she keeps saying is that we're married with kids where what she did was just us dating.



make a serious discussion about it but don;t do it...why hurt a 3rd person or your kids ?


----------



## Chaparral

shecheatedVA said:


> I truly want to believe that she was and now just wants the truth to get out. In the past few years, we've tried really hard to become spiritual people (read spiritual but not religious per se). To become free you must be able to be true to yourself and others around you. Her ego and guilt keep chipping away at her self identity. She isn't the type of girl to go cheat and especially not hurt anyone or anything especially people that she love. That stain from the past has ridden her with guilt but she kept it quite because she didn't want to inflict any hurt on us. At that point, she realized it was something that she had to deal with and ultimately be punished with. Although she did it TO me she also did it to herself at the expense of her soul/ego beating her up daily. She had promised herself that if I ever asked her again, she would come forward with the truth. It was that night when after a few drinks i inquired about her faithfulness and she came out with the truth.
> 
> 
> I hear you on this but also doesn't help the mid movies. I am a man after all. Even though I'm confident on who I am, it devastates me thinking about her experiencing pleasure from another. Maybe I haven't grown enough to see that her soul still belongs to me. That she gave her body to someone 3 times for probably at most 3 hours. Is 3 hours worth giving up 10 years of marriage and a life together. I still haven't decided nor do I feel I'm in a position to make such a decision.
> 
> 
> From what I've seen she hasn't as so much as flirted with another man. Maybe she's an actress worthy of an Oscar but something tells me she is/has been committed but you never know?
> 
> 
> People do grow. I've grown exponentially in the last 15 years and have changed from the person I use to be. My core and character is the same but life lessons have made me a better person. Shouldn't I give her the benefit of growth as well?
> 
> 
> I appreciate you doing that. No matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has 2 sides. I don't only want to hear reason on how terrible her actions were but also would like to hear at least some stories, comments and feedback where couples were able to move past this. I might not be able to but I'd like to know for the ones that were able to, what did they do?


I have been on this site for over a year. Many of the people that have been really succesful have moved on. One reason is that they get hammered a lot. I have been labeled as pro reconciliation. I'm not realy pro one way or the other. I do come down on the reconcilliation side more often than not if children are involved and the couple really wnat to reconcile.

I'm not sure what you mean by more spiritual but Christians have to ask for forgiveness from those they have offended before they can ask forgiveness from God. Maybe your wife feels that way too.

If I read you right, it sounds like your wife was having a hard time dealing with the problems you were having. She had basically decided you two were done. Was she financially able to just break up and move out? Her business with the POSOM was a reality check. How bad were your problems? Being in school with your whole future ahead of you, in love wiuth a person with a lot of personal emotional baggage would make the strongest person have serious doubts.

Look at your children. Ironically her testing the waters may actually have been the luckiest thing that ever happened to you. I see my kids as the luckiest thing that ever happened to me. My wife isn't perfect but I would not change anything in the world that could possibly meant my children would not have been born.

The first girl I was going to marry, I am certain had a very short affair, wanted to break up and see other people including me. When I refused, the greener grass did not look so good anymore. The guy she was interested in had horses which she was just getting into and he conned her. When she cried and said never mind on the breaking up thing we continued on. I might add that we were also living apart (100 miles) at the time.

It never entered my mind that he may be a better lover or anything else than me. You have to have confidence in yourself. You know if you are a worthy man and a good lover or not. And it never crossed my mind to ask her about him. I had met the guy and he seemed like a really nice guy but she picked me. He had to put that in his pipe and smoke it.

Now if someone put the moves on my wife, knowing she was married to me, there would be more than hell to pay.

There are threads on here about forgiveness and getting over the anger. I suggest you find those and take care of your family. Children of divorce go through hell, so if you can make it, you will all be better off.


----------



## Acabado

Peace
Outta here, for good this time.


----------



## Summer4744

Shecheated. It's ok to be pissed at your wife.

But I think the best thing for you is some distance. Rent a room at a hotel for a week or a month if you need to. Sometimes being that close to the one who hurt you while the wound is still fresh can be too intense to deal with.

During this time just don't do anything that you can't take back. Don't get a divorce and don't get with other women.

Once you've had some time to process all this do whatever you want, but for now you gotta figure things out.


----------



## Thor

Get some good exercise. Lift weights, ride a bike hard. Eat well, stay away from alcohol and other substances. Get some meds from your doc if need them temporarily.

This is the roller coaster. You will ride it for a while but it will calm down.

Give this process some time. Six months before making big decisions, a year to get some feeling of trust back. If you decide you cannot stay with her after a few months or more, that is completely your right to feel that way. She sounds like she is truly remorseful, and given the circumstances I still believe there is a good chance for your marriage and family to come through this healthy and happy.

Don't have a revenge affair.


----------



## Martin12

What, this happened 15 years ago?

I say let it go, get over it.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Martin12 said:


> What, this happened 15 years ago?
> 
> I say let it go, get over it.


Sorry, don't agree. Everything that you thought your spouse was you found out has to be assessed in a different light. She lied to you for 15 years about this.

He knows that when he was down she chose 3 times, not once, to take another route, knowing that her actions would hurt him. Is he the 2nd (Safe) choice? He is now asking himself that question and if he is to get his arms around it she needs to help him. If she doesn't then he knows he was the 2nd choice.


----------



## shecheatedVA

I think you guys are right. I'm just to close to this by living in the same house. I'm going to look at some short term housing options today. I need to get away from this and clear my head without having to look at her or think about the situation. I knew not thinking about the situation will still be a problem but I think I have go get away just let my mind cool down. 

I said some really harsh things last night which already might mean the end of this relationship. After spending hours on this site, I just go so filled with rage seeing how so many people have been screwed over, that I let her have it with some choice words. Similar to actions, once words are said, they can't be unsaid. We'll see. 

In the end, if that's what is ends up being..let it be. I have to think about how I'll need to change to be a better father for kids.


----------



## anchorwatch

Now she hurt you, so you hurt her. Feel better? Did that fix it? In front of the children? No? Retribution and escalation doesn't heal you. It will only destroy you and what ever you had worth saving. In your words, a good marriage and the love of her and your children. 

We all do things that we are ashamed of in our youth. We live with the shame and it stops us from repeating those behaviors. When we mature, we learn the shame and regret was our self punishment, it taught us what good morals are about. Being a spiritual and moral person doesn't include retribution or infliction of pain on someone else. Is does include forgiveness of one's self and others. That is how the process of healing works.

IMO, She has proven herself to be a good and moral person during all these years. After the self shame of those years, she got around to forgiving herself for the sins of her youth. Then she needed to build up the courage to ask for your forgiveness. As awkward as it played out she finally did it. Do not let your ego take play in the decision to give her this gift.

Follow Thor's last post and give yourself and your family the time it takes to play this out and make a diligent decision. Follow your IC and MC guidance. If you can R you will, if you can't you'll D. Do not let your anger dictate your decision. You will only regret the outcome for the rest of your life, if you use anger. 

Your family is waiting your decision. I wish you and your family well.


----------



## Thor

Get two copies of the book "After the Affair". One for you and one for your wife. ASAP.

If you have family in the area go stay with them for a few days. Or get a hotel room for a few days. Be very cautious about renting your own place because if you eventually do divorce it can be portrayed that you abandoned your family. And that will mean loss of custody time with your kids. You need to be living in your own house.

Your anger is normal and understandable. Don't kick yourself for it. Get some lightweight meds from your doc. Go talk to a trusted friend.


----------



## mel123

anchorwatch said:


> Now she hurt you, so you hurt her. Feel better? Did that fix it? In front of the children? No? Retribution and escalation doesn't heal you. It will only destroy you and what ever you had worth saving. In your words, a good marriage and the love of her and your children.
> 
> We all do things that we are ashamed of in our youth. We live with the shame and it stops us from repeating those behaviors. When we mature, we learn the shame and regret was our self punishment, it taught us what good morals are about. Being a spiritual and moral person doesn't include retribution or infliction of pain on someone else. Is does include forgiveness of one's self and others. That is how the process of healing works.
> 
> IMO, She has proven herself to be a good and moral person all these years. After the self shame of those years, she got around to forgiving herself of the sins of her youth. Then she needed to build up the courage to ask for your forgiveness. As awkward as it played out she finally did it. Do not let your ego take play in the decision to give her this gift.
> 
> Follow Thor's last post and give yourself and your family the time it takes to play this out and make a diligent decision. Follow yous IC and MC guidance. If you can R you will, if you can't you'll D. Do not let you anger dictate you decision. You will only regret the outcome for the rest of your life, if you use anger.
> 
> Your family is waiting your decision. I wish you and your family well.


:iagree:

anchorwatch has good thoughts.

Yes she done something dumb 5 years before you got married while a college student, no shes not without fault , but she is human and has learned form her mistakes. You are not perfect and no other human on plant earth is either.

IF she has been faithful to you since she said her Vows,you have a good wife not a cheater. You had a young and goofy college student girlfriend that didn't know what she wanted or understand life to cheat on her boyfriend ,who was having problems of his own. She is not that same person


----------



## theroad

Martin12 said:


> What, this happened 15 years ago?
> 
> I say let it go, get over it.


His WW is over it. She had 15 years to get over this. She should be over it.

This BH just found out. This is brand new to him. This is not 15 years old news. Learning abiut this is brand new to him.

Recovery is a 2 to 5 year process.

Get over it does not take 15 days.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Martin12 said:


> What, this happened 15 years ago?
> 
> I say let it go, get over it.


15 years ago for her, just the other day for him.

C'mon. "Get over it" isn't very helpful.


----------



## Thor

boogie110 said:


> He's too emotionally out of control over this. His family/children do not deserve this.


:scratchhead:

He has no right to express his anger at his cheating wife? Is it not a consequence of her actions that he will feel anger and will express it?

Or should he hold it all inside? Is that healthy for him? Is that healthy for the marriage?

He didn't say he beat her or he abused her.


----------



## SprucHub

I have not read the whole thread but have read similar ones. Do not throw your life away over cheating in college. Young people make mistakes and hide them. It is not a big deal. You created a life and family together. You love each other. You have kids that depend on you. She slept with someone else in college. People on this site are very jaded about cheating and you must understand that and weigh that with your decision making.


----------



## costa200

boogie110 said:


> You have to have the emotional quotient to do so. Some people and we are all different cannot handle any injustice that happens to them - road rage, for instance.


Because it's all so wise and hip to be totally cool about having your wife banging some fat slob on your back...

I'll ask you this, what is the emotional quotient needed to understand how a man can be this emotional after finding out that a substantial part of his life was built on a terrible lie?

Is it more or less than the required for the "it's ok, i'll just wash the other guy's semen real good" thing?


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Very surprised at the handful of "it was a long time ago" posts. It was a long time ago where his wife betrayed him... and, now that he knows the full scope of that betrayal, is he supposed to smile, shrug and ignore it? Idon't understand that mentality.

He gets to be upset about this, guys. He's entitled. I'm certainly not saying "KICK HER OUT!" or "DIVORCE THE ****!" or anything of the sort- I'm saying that he has every right to be pissed off. He also has every right to vent.

A couple of you reaally need to consider having some empathy before posting. "Get over it" posts are no more helpful than posts calling for pitchforks. This cat's life got turned upside down in the space of a few minutes, and it's reasonable for him to be angry and afraid.


----------



## gemjo

The way i see it, do you love the life you have had the past 10 years?

Has your wife been faithful to you since you married?

Have you had a good marriage so far?

Do you still want to be with your wife, now, even knowing what you know about her past?

Can you live with it?

I kind of wish my biggest problem right now was my H had cheated on me before we were married, and before we had children!

Providing your wife has not cheated on you since, providing she is remorseful for what she did all those years ago, providing you have the full truth now.....I would try my hardest to accept my wife, when she was young and foolish made a mistake. Sometimes those very mistakes make us realise what we really have in front of us.

I wish you all the luck in the world, but I think you will be fine. Give yourself the necessary time to work through what happened back then......but you have said yourself, you were in a bad place. Maybe she was too.

I am not making light of what she did, it was wrong, but not something worth throwing a 'good' ten year marriage down the pan for.

You will get through this. You, your wife and your children deserve it.

Give yourself the necessary time to deal with this new knowledge you have about her. 

Only you know if she is worth it, your kids certainly are.

Good Luck x


----------



## aug

boogie110 said:


> Wow. Like I said in my previous posts. The quicker she gets away from you the better.
> 
> And to all you males defending him...again, wow.
> 
> Oh and females too. Nice guy to defend. Poor wife and kids. My heart goes out to them.



It's new to him. He gets to play out his emotions. If he holds it in, it's worse for him and everyone around him.

Kids are innocent but wife is the cause.

It's a good idea for him to take some time to ponder.


----------



## Wazza

boogie110 said:


> Wow. Like I said in my previous posts. The quicker she gets away from you the better.
> 
> And to all you males defending him...again, wow.
> 
> Oh and females too. Nice guy to defend. Poor wife and kids. My heart goes out to them.


Actually you are touching on a really important point.

Violent anger is dangerous. I am a really non-violent person, but the anger I experienced at my wife's affair was unlike anything else I have ever experienced. I said things to her and about her far worse than anything OP has done here, I destroyed a piece of furniture with a hammer, and in her presence, I threw a gift I had given her at a wall and destroyed it.

These are not things I am proud of. But the pain was uncontainable, and I am proud that I was at least able to channel releasing it into inanimate objects.

You know what? My wife took my love, my commitment and my fidelity and threw it against a wall by a six month physical and emotional affair. By punishing and deserting me in response to a situation that she had as much responsibility for as I did. That was 1990. We are good and together, but boy there are scars. And even just typing this post, my teeth are clenching.

Boogie, I don't know your history. I wonder if you know what it feels like to be a betrayed spouse. Does the spouse deserve this? Well I don't find it helpful to think in that way, but the fact is this is a direct result of her wrong action.

Anyone who has read this thread will know that I am encouraging SheCheated to reconcile if he can. But let me tell you, unless they have some really honest conversation, unless they really get the issues totally out in the open and talk about them, they are not going to reconcile. For all that I respect the wife's decision to come clean, the fact remains that she cheated on him and concealed it. And they have to rebuild from that as a couple, or divorce.

SheCheated, Boogie has a point...you need to be careful. You need to assume that your temperament wil be more volatile than usual. You need to let the pain out, but pick where. That's why physical exercise is suggested at times like this. It does help. And if you can't trust yourself to be non-violent, remove yourself from the situation while you get your head together.


----------



## mel123

OP..., how long had you been dating (exclusive) when she was with the OM?


----------



## Wazza

boogie110 said:


> Re: Just found out my wife's emotional affair was also physical. Don't know what to d
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by shecheatedVA
> *You know what I'm figuring out. I think all women are heartless, selfish little b1tches who care about themselves only. They'll put up with a man as long as their getting something out of it. I'm not trying to be beta either. This is an observation that I've made throughout my life. I think, after my split which I think will ultimately happen, my plan is to use as many women as possible. Just deceitful, lying, manipulative wh0res who need to have their every whim filled and they become little girls and throw hissy fits or in the grown up world find some other c0ck to nibble on. Good riddance b1tches!*
> 
> The misogyny on this site is really quite amazing and I'm amazed how unfazed all the women are by it - it really does work - the hatred of women is so enlaced into society even the women don't notice. I can't even imagine how the men on this site would react if women started saying: all men are ***** f'rs, they all cheat, they all lie, they are all deceitful, they lie with every fabric of their being, marriage to all men is just a sham, they are stupid little boys who use women and never grow up, the are all violent rapists waiting to attack any women, they love to beat up women, they manipulate all women and have no respect for women, they all hate women, they just want their c)cks nibbled on and just want to f&ck women, selfish c(cks who only care about themselves, I hate all men and just want to use them from now on...good riddance.
> 
> Like that great new Pink song. Blow me one last kiss.
> 
> I think I've had enough of this. TAM is just too misogynistic for me. You win.


He's in pain and venting. If that was his considered opinion, sure I'd take issue with it. But if he needs to work through things and needs to say that sort off stuff, I'll listen.

If you read all his posts, not just that one, you'll see just how much he's struggling. Frankly I think he's doing pretty darn well all things considered, and I don't believe he's a mysoginist.


----------



## larry.gray

Stick around long enough and you'll see the same kind of venom directed at men too. It's just venting.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Anyone with 20/20 vision and a room temperature IQ can see that female infidelity it completely out of control in this modern era, so who can blame the guy for venting about it?

I'm forming the impression that men are supposed to collectively act as if there ISN'T an axe murderer in their living room, and that should they rightly leap to defend themselves from these "axe wielding" limbic system creatures, they are "howwible misogynists".


----------



## larry.gray

My life experience is that this is nothing new. Many men have been cheating on women for a long time. Women have been doing it a long time too.

I don't like the idea of maligning either gender because of the bad actions of some of them. There are good women and good men out there.


----------



## Wazza

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Anyone with 20/20 vision and a room temperature IQ can see that female infidelity it completely out of control in this modern era, so who can blame the guy for venting about it?
> 
> I'm forming the impression that men are supposed to collectively act as if there ISN'T an axe murderer in their living room, and that should they rightly leap to defend themselves from these "axe wielding" limbic system creatures, they are "howwible misogynists".


Good heavens, yes!! Some statistics even suggest it might have reached the same levels as male infidelity!!!


----------



## costa200

boogie110 said:


> Re: Just found out my wife's emotional affair was also physical. Don't know what to d
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by shecheatedVA
> *You know what I'm figuring out. I think all women are heartless, selfish little b1tches who care about themselves only. They'll put up with a man as long as their getting something out of it. I'm not trying to be beta either. This is an observation that I've made throughout my life. I think, after my split which I think will ultimately happen, my plan is to use as many women as possible. Just deceitful, lying, manipulative wh0res who need to have their every whim filled and they become little girls and throw hissy fits or in the grown up world find some other c0ck to nibble on. Good riddance b1tches!*
> 
> The misogyny on this site is really quite amazing and I'm amazed how unfazed all the women are by it - it really does work - the hatred of women is so enlaced into society even the women don't notice. I can't even imagine how the men on this site would react if women started saying: all men are ***** f'rs, they all cheat, they all lie, they are all deceitful, they lie with every fabric of their being, marriage to all men is just a sham, they are stupid little boys who use women and never grow up, the are all violent rapists waiting to attack any women, they love to beat up women, they manipulate all women and have no respect for women, they all hate women, they just want their c)cks nibbled on and just want to f&ck women, selfish c(cks who only care about themselves, I hate all men and just want to use them from now on...good riddance.
> 
> Like that great new Pink song. Blow me one last kiss.
> 
> I think I've had enough of this. TAM is just too misogynistic for me. You win.



I've actually been here long enough already to have seen all that from hurt women. Didn't think about it twice. People in anger say things like that. This is a venting place, that is all. You can just let go a bit and people will show understanding. Probably one of the few places where they can do it.


----------



## tonyarz

Dude, That was 15 years ago. She is totally a different person now. If you love her stay. I know you say that this is killing you. My ex wife did the same thing and I never got over it. Exactly the same thing. I dumped her on the spot and have no regrets. I still see my kids and they adjusted well. They understand why I left. I guess it's up to you. I know this is kind of confusing.


----------



## Conrad

larry.gray said:


> Stick around long enough and you'll see the same kind of venom directed at men too. It's just venting.


Something tells me that wouldn't get the same reaction.


----------



## Chaparral

Thor said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> He has no right to express his anger at his cheating wife? Is it not a consequence of her actions that he will feel anger and will express it?
> 
> Or should he hold it all inside? Is that healthy for him? Is that healthy for the marriage?
> 
> He didn't say he beat her or he abused her.


She isn't a cheating wife, not even close. She was a college girlfriend. There is a helluva difference.


----------



## warlock07

boogie110 said:


> Wow. Like I said in my previous posts. The quicker she gets away from you the better.
> 
> And to all you males defending him...again, wow.
> 
> Oh and females too. Nice guy to defend. Poor wife and kids. My heart goes out to them.


Say you made a serious post about your life, should I point out the grammar and spelling mistakes in your post ? Give him a break. He is still jaded and in shock of his wife's betrayal...People say stupid stuff in the heat of the moment. Use your discretion. Please think a bit before you make blanket generalizations on the whole community.. Maybe I should point out that your rant about 'evil men' was a bit too long for sarcasm.


----------



## shecheatedVA

mel123 said:


> She may not honestly remember the details that long ago.But just remembers having sex and told you all she could remember


Ok. I can accept the fact that she had sex with someone. It's a hard pill to swallow and a very painful at that. *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex?* She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply *dont/cant* believe it.

As I previously mentioned, this affair started during the week I was on a trip. They went out drinking with some mutual friends and then she went back to his place. I called her that night to check on her and she didn't pick up. I got scared because I thought something had happenned to her. I repeatly called her was going to call hospitals. I then thought about jumping on a plane andy flying back. Continued to call until 4 am when she said she had fallen asleep.

I came back into town the next day and confronted her. She said she had gone out for some food and then passed out on the coach. I asked for the bag which had a time dated receipt. She said she threw it away so I was about to jump into a big nasty apartment dumpster and go through any and all bags so her story could be validated. 

That was the night the affair began. I'm almost sure she had sex with him that night and probably many times after that but she confesses to 3x. I've repeatedly asked her to tell me the whole truth so I can *finally* be able to be the controller of my own destiny. She says I have the truth but I don't believe it. 

How do I get her to tell me. Is it a futile attempt. Should I just accept the fact that I'll never get the truth. Not having the truth makes me feel like it's not worth it to stay in this relationship.


----------



## shecheatedVA

Martin12 said:


> What, this happened 15 years ago?
> 
> I say let it go, get over it.


*GET OVER IT!?* Really!!!? Even though she comitted the actual act 15 years ago she just told me. This happened to be me for all intensive purposes recently. If I wanted to hear stupid sh!t like this, I'd ask in other forums. My feelings are right here and right now. So get over it is not as simple as typing those words on your computer. I'm a human being with feelings and need time to process those.


----------



## shecheatedVA

boogie110 said:


> I think this is very wise. The faster she gets away from you the better for her children and herself. I'm glad you got so much support and help from this site. It's what we are here for.


Really lady!? You're already assuming I'm a bad husband and father based on what! That I'm hurt from hearing that the love of my life secretly carried on an affair behind my back with a scumbag? Are you that heartless that you can't for a minute see that I'm a human being with emotions? You don't know anything about me other than what I've shared on this board and that is ONLY that my wife has an affair on me when we were in college and that I just found out. I've shared my feelings which have been a rollercoaster of ups and downs. 

So spare me your feminazi comments about how much better she'd be without me and she and my kids should run. You sound equally as jaded as some folks that have replied. And good riddance to you to. You add as much value as a dried up piece of poo hanging from one of your a$$ hairs.


----------



## shecheatedVA

mel123 said:


> OP..., how long had you been dating (exclusive) when she was with the OM?


We had been a committed, exclusive relationship for 4 years. Had been living together for the past 3.


----------



## warlock07

shecheatedVA said:


> Ok. I can accept the fact that she had sex with someone. It's a hard pill to swallow and a very painful at that. *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex?* She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply *dont/cant* believe it.
> 
> As I previously mentioned, this affair started during the week I was on a trip. They went out drinking with some mutual friends and then she went back to his place. I called her that night to check on her and she didn't pick up. I got scared because I thought something had happenned to her. I repeatly called her was going to call hospitals. I then thought about jumping on a plane andy flying back. Continued to call until 4 am when she said she had fallen asleep.
> 
> I came back into town the next day and confronted her. She said she had gone out for some food and then passed out on the coach. I asked for the bag which had a time dated receipt. She said she threw it away so I was about to jump into a big nasty apartment dumpster and go through any and all bags so her story could be validated.
> 
> That was the night the affair began. I'm almost sure she had sex with him that night and probably many times after that but she confesses to 3x. I've repeatedly asked her to tell me the whole truth so I can *finally* be able to be the controller of my own destiny. She says I have the truth but I don't believe it.
> 
> How do I get her to tell me. Is it a futile attempt. Should I just accept the fact that I'll never get the truth. Not having the truth makes me feel like it's not worth it to stay in this relationship.


Yeah, your gut was already on it...you knew something was off. And she continued the affair after this..


----------



## costa200

shecheatedVA, I believe you can get through this man. I know you're hurting bad, but if you are willing to R you are in a much better position to do it than most guys who post here. 

Ignore that boogie-what's-her-name woman. She isn't helping at all.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

To: shecheatedVA

Believe me, a lot of us can understand your anger/rage. Some of us have even been through a situation similar to yours. 

I view this forum as a way to work through that anger/rage without it going outside, and you should use this forum as such. 

There are many of us here who understand that what happened was a violation of what you hold very dear to your heart. 15 years means nothing, it is like it happened last night as you based your decision on a lie that was told to you and was never revealed until now.

Unfortunately, on a post you get many who want to push every individual into a certain set of parameters, that does not work. We are all different have our own defined standards and have based on lives on those standards. Those that we choose to partner with understand those standards as well as we understand the standards of our partner. If those standards are violated, by either side that is when problems occur.

At this time it is non-productive for you to be concerned with those who do not understand what you are going through. Ignore them and hopefully the others on this site who understand your pain can help you work through this. 

If you go back and read some threads of Juicer, Tears, etc. it may help you also.

Good Luck, I can only tell you that your story hits home as well.


----------



## TheProf

" *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex? She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply dont/cant believe it*."

Here's the cold hard facts SCV. She was young, the other man was young. Even if they met three times, if he was like me in my younger years, I'd nailed it at least least two, three or more time during each episode depending on the length. But like someone said, that was 15 years ago and you weren't married. 
Here's the thing. Your not in a truly committed relationship until you say the vows. There is no real expectation of "commitment" when you're merely living together. Living together, without the benefit of marriage, is by definition keeping your options open and not commiting. 
Get over it or get out (if that's all the last 15 years is worth). The statute of limitations has run.


----------



## Shaggy

TheProf said:


> " *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex? She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply dont/cant believe it*."
> 
> Here's the cold hard facts SCV. She was young, the other man was young. Even if they met three times, if he was like me in my younger years, I'd nailed it at least least two, three or more time during each episode depending on the length. But like someone said, that was 15 years ago and you weren't married.
> Here's the thing. Your not in a truly committed relationship until you say the vows. There is no real expectation of "commitment" when you're merely living together. Living together, without the benefit of marriage, is by definition keeping your options open and not commiting.
> Get over it or get out (if that's all the last 15 years is worth). The statute of limitations has run.


You are in a committed relationship the moment the two of you agree to be exclusive. Past that moment it's cheating.

And the statute of limitations runs out when your heart and emotions says it has run out.


----------



## TheProf

I'll give you that Shag. If two people agree its exclusive, it ought to be exclusive. But if and only if the both agree and are equally committed, which is usually not the case. In an unmarried, living together arrangement, the commitment is weaker and less serious by far than a marriage where two vow, before God, to commitment. Living together, without marriage, is usually a method to "see if it works out" and an easy exit is purposely inherent in the process. 
SCV is moping around, driving himself crazy (or has) over something that happened 15 years ago before he was married and apparently ignoring the good in the last 15 years. Why not take it out to thirty of forty years? There are guys coming to this site who's long term wives have the other man in the saddle as I write this.
As I said, before marriage your options are open. He could have just as easily found someone he liked better and ditched her.


----------



## Jonesey

TheProf said:


> I'll give you that Shag. If two people agree its exclusive, it ought to be exclusive. But if and only if the both agree and are equally committed, which is usually not the case. In an unmarried, living together arrangement, the commitment is weaker and less serious by far than a marriage where two vow, before God, to commitment. Living together, without marriage, is usually a method to "see if it works out" and an easy exit is purposely inherent in the process.
> SCV is moping around, driving himself crazy (or has) over something that happened 15 years ago before he was married and apparently ignoring the good in the last 15 years. Why not take it out to thirty of forty years? There are guys coming to this site who's long term wives have the other man in the saddle as I write this.
> *As I said, before marriage your options are open*.
> 
> _Would it not have been nice if his then girlfriend,informed him about it? SIGH_
> 
> 
> 
> He could have just as easily found someone he liked better and ditched her.


----------



## Jonesey

shecheatedVA said:


> We had been a committed, exclusive relationship for 4 years. Had been living together for the past 3.


A friendly suggestion. Try to ignore stuped post. You do not need/owe one explenation.Towards how you feel


----------



## TheProf

*"We have been married for 10 years, have 3 wonderful kids, good jobs, nice house, good emotional and physical bond. We love each other extremely."*

Ya, that's it. Ignore the stupid post. Let your "feelings" drive you. Obsess on something that happened 5 years before you married. Listen to the stuff youre hearing about how the kids may not be yours and how you've been living in a sham marriage. Ditch the cheater and throw away everything you said above. Go for it. She ain't worth it, right?


----------



## lovelygirl

TheProf said:


> There is no real expectation of "commitment" when you're merely living together. Living together, without the benefit of marriage, is by definition keeping your options open and not commiting.


Crap.

You don't need that piece of paper to show how committed you are. You either are or you aren't, married or unmarried. 
It really comes down to the agreement between the couple, even when dating.


----------



## lovelygirl

TheProf said:


> As I said, before marriage your options are open. He could have just as easily found someone he liked better and ditched her.


This is not about whether you're free to ditch your partner before marriage or not.
Of course he could have found someone better and he or she had the right to break off the engagement/relationship. 
The problem is the CHEATING.
Nobody is saying you can't meet other people and fall in love with them before getting married. It's how you meet them and what you do with them (while already in another relationship) that counts. 
What she did was CHEATING. If she liked the other guy she had the option to tell the OP she wanted to break up. That's all she had to do instead of cheating.


----------



## mel123

shecheatedVA said:


> We had been a committed, exclusive relationship for 4 years. Had been living together for the past 3.


Ouch! that makes me look at your situation different. You were with her long enough to give her your trust and love, and she betrayed it. 

But she did tell you about the A , and she has been a good wife and mother. Hang in there and don't make any quick decisions, while you are upset. The ball is in your court. A divorce wont make the pain go away though. A big plus she is remorseful.


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex?[/B] She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply *dont/cant* believe it.
> 
> As I previously mentioned, this affair started during the week I was on a trip. They went out drinking with some mutual friends and then she went back to his place. I called her that night to check on her and she didn't pick up.  I got scared because I thought something had happenned to her. I repeatly called her was going to call hospitals. I then thought about jumping on a plane andy flying back. Continued to call until 4 am when she said she had fallen asleep.
> 
> I came back into town the next day and confronted her. She said she had gone out for some food and then passed out on the coach. I asked for the bag which had a time dated receipt. She said she threw it away so I was about to jump into a big nasty apartment dumpster and go through any and all bags so her story could be validated.
> 
> That was the night the affair began. I'm almost sure she had sex with him that night and probably many times after that but she confesses to 3x. I've repeatedly asked her to tell me the whole truth so I can *finally* be able to be the controller of my own destiny. She says I have the truth but I don't believe it.
> 
> How do I get her to tell me. Is it a futile attempt. Should I just accept the fact that I'll never get the truth. Not having the truth makes me feel like it's not worth it to stay in this relationship.



Too late. Sorry, too late. It's fifteen years ago. There is no supporting evidence.

Maybe your gut was right, the affair had started, and she is lying. Or maybe you suffer jealousy and overreact, and you are going to drive yourself crazy with "what if" scenarios that are not true.

Maybe you'll stay with her and always wonder whether it was a mistake to stay. Maybe you'll leave her because of all the extra times and always wonder if you dumped her for something that never actually happened.

Maybe she is so scared at your reaction so far that any hope of getting more information from her is gone.

Someone is no doubt going to suggest a polygraph. Are they always accurate?

I live with the exact same thing, and I deal with it by assuming the worst. I know the affair happened. She admits it. she admits it was wrong. The exact details of the physical encounters don't change that. It sucks. But they don't change all the good stuff since either. She chose you.

Gets easier with time though. Right now your emotions are taking you for a ride. Do nothing hasty.


----------



## costa200

> But if and only if the both agree and are equally committed, which is usually not the case. In an unmarried, living together arrangement, the commitment is weaker and less serious by far than a marriage where two vow, before God, to commitment.


Maybe i should take those lines to my multiple friends and acquaintances who got married and divorced while i'm still living like a heathen with my college GF raising our daughter. I'm sure the notion that their unions were stronger and more serious than mine will comfort them tremendously.

A union is as strong as the people in it make them. A piece of paper and respective religious ceremony won't change it a bit.


----------



## youkiddingme

I think the issue that is eating you is related to the deception. She lied about her relationship with the other guy. I really suspect that is the root of the problem. My wife did similar things to me only she lied about a lot of things. It rocks your world.

Would she be open to taking a lie detector test? If so that would resolve the questions you have about it.

However, even once that is done.... I do not believe you will find it resolves the issues that are eating your lunch! She lied and deceived you... good luck getting over that. I have not found my way past it yet.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Don't know about the accuracy of a polygraph when it is used 15 years after the deception. Just know that a lot of repressed memory cases have been found to be false and they passed polygraphs.


----------



## youkiddingme

I don't think the amount of time is an issue. They reveal whether or not a person is lying "today". If she is lying now and knows it...she will stress when asked.


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## Wazza

Read the Wikipedia article on polygraphs, especially the "validity" section.

The accuracy of polygraphs is put at somewhere between 61% and 95%. It is not proof. It will not give closure.


----------



## youkiddingme

It won't bring closure because it is likely that this is not his root problem. However, a poly does infact bring a great deal of relief to MANY betrayed spouses. Often the betrayed spouse gets the information they were looking for before the test occurs as the cheater feels compelled to come clean.

I know from experience that many betrayed spouses get a great deal of help from poly's.


----------



## Wazza

youkiddingme said:


> It won't bring closure because it is likely that this is not his root problem. However, a poly does infact bring a great deal of relief to MANY betrayed spouses. Often the betrayed spouse gets the information they were looking for before the test occurs as the cheater feels compelled to come clean.
> 
> I know from experience that many betrayed spouses get a great deal of help from poly's.


As a bluff sure. Suppose she takes the poly, tells the truth, and still fails due to nerves? Marriage ends based on a false result?

It's a roll of the dice and one I wouldn't take. Ymmv.


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## Bricko

The man finds out his exclusive girlfriend who had been in a in multi year relationship with him, cheated on him when he was out of town.

As he said himself, it doesn't make a difference if it was 15 years or 15 days ago. He is reeling right now because the woman he loved, the woman he married, cheated on him and it doesn't mean a damn thing if they had a marriage license when she cheated on him. 

I can understand how he is thinking right now. He is wondering if he was a backup plan. She went out cheated and betrayed him when he was out of town on at least 3 occasions. After sex with the OM on multiple occasions she decides that she wants to go back to her future husband and never tell him that she cheated.

He is thinking that his marriage started on a huge lie. His then exclusive committed girlfriend got to cheat on him behind his back so that she could decide which man would be a better long term choice for her.

Based on his description, he has had a pretty good marriage and needs to step back before making any drastic decision.

But he is more than entitled to a polygraph or whatever else he needs from his wife to help himself.


----------



## shecheatedVA

Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Your comments, support and feedback have helped me. 

So I asked her more questions and she confessed some more details. Be careful what you wish for. She finally broke down and said the second time when he couldn't get it up, he ended up going down on her and make her cum. She says she feels so guilty about that. I can't believe she would allow a virtual stranger such an intimate act. She said her guilt was eating her up but I ask how can have so much guilt and still be able to orgasm? 

I wanted the truth and got it (some). The fact she allowed him to do that really hurt me. I don't know why but I consider that pretty intimate and the fact she was able to cum was really hurtful. She says she has felt the worst about that since she realizes how much of an intimate act that is. 

For some reason, I'm having a real hard time. I think all of this has finally caught up me. I can't think, concentrate, have no energy and have been chain smoking like a fiend (after quitting 8 years ago). It just stirs up what else happenned. Obviously she was very emotionally connected with this guy? 

She said that experience messed up sexually. I attest, she hasn't been comfortable and unable to enjoy oral sex (me on her) for quite a while. I just assumed she didn't care for it but it has to do with the guilt she feels from the experience she had. I feel her pain and can weirdly empathize at times. She said she just couldn't tell me but it makes me wonder what else there is.

I am going to get her to take a polygraph. I've already found a reputable one in my area. I have about 30 questions and she somewhat has agreed to it. I've also asked her to write the entire affair down on paper, starting for the very beginning and including every detail. I know it's going to be hard, painful, and shameful for her to write that down but I think I need all the details. I told her to take her time and really concentrate and go back there. I'm not only concerned about the physical but the emotional aspect of it. I really want to know but am scared sh1tless that once I do I won't be able to undo my mind.

This experience has me angry, hurt, lonely, shameful, self deprecating and shocked. I feel hurt the most. Hurt of the deceit. Hurt that I stayed committed and faithful to her and she didn't. Sad she allowed another man inside of her and worst off let her taste her. That was something special and only for us to share. I know I sound like a little girl at times but I'm letting out all my emotions. If you saw me on the streets, the last thing you would think I was a pussey. Deep down I'm obviously very sensitive. Like I said I had a really hard, tragic and turbulent childhood. When I met this woman, I really thought I had met the one. Someone who understood me. Someone who cared and loved me. Someone who I *TRUST*.

She's stolen the most important thing (IMHO) which bonds two lovers: *TRUST*. Honestly I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to recover from this.

I feel so bad for us and for my wonderful children. I'll still be the best father as I've been but inevitably this will damage them. I'm just so overwhelmed and sad.


----------



## Bricko

SCVA,

You have ever right to feel the emotions that are running through you right now. Most people here on TAM really understand about the loss of trust. The loss of trust from deceit hurts the worst.

And you certainly have the right to have her take a polygraph test. I am curious that you said she "somewhat agreed" to take a polygraph test. Do you think she will back out as the test day draws near?

I can't remember if you are in counseling for yourself right now, but it can help a lot if you find a good counselor.


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## C-man

It's definitely the deception that is the worst. If she passes a polygraph test are you going to trust her? It would take a lot of work and time on her part to regain trust - and you have to ask yourself if you will ever truly trust her again.

I know exactly how you feel - I was in denial about my wife for a long time, and when I found out the extent of her deceptions it was very tough to deal with the conflicting emotions of loving my wife and the truth that she did something as terrible as deceiving and cheating on me. I've come to the conclusion that I would never be able to trust my wife again. So now am trying to deal with letting go and moving on. Your spouse should be somebody you trust 100%. Anything less is trouble.


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## Acabado

What I read about cases like yours shecheatedVA the huger risk is to have the betrayer plugged enough to help you get past it.
Despite the guilt, she managed to bury it for years, she dealt with it already, somehow, she payed her penance albeit self imposed. She justified the lie by omission by being a good wife since then. So the confession, the disclosure is for her not only a relief but a milestone only different from yours.
Asuming she's realy remorseful - and it seems she is - the urge to consider it the moment she doesn't have to deal with it anymore is very strong so she's going to push hard to rugsweep it. 
The emotions of being busted in a recent/ongoing betrayal put you "some how" in the same page. But in this case she believes the hell is ending when actually it's only starting.


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## Chaparral

shecheatedVA said:


> Ok. I can accept the fact that she had sex with someone. It's a hard pill to swallow and a very painful at that. *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex?* She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply *dont/cant* believe it.
> 
> As I previously mentioned, this affair started during the week I was on a trip. They went out drinking with some mutual friends and then she went back to his place. I called her that night to check on her and she didn't pick up. I got scared because I thought something had happenned to her. I repeatly called her was going to call hospitals. I then thought about jumping on a plane andy flying back. Continued to call until 4 am when she said she had fallen asleep.
> 
> I came back into town the next day and confronted her. She said she had gone out for some food and then passed out on the coach. I asked for the bag which had a time dated receipt. She said she threw it away so I was about to jump into a big nasty apartment dumpster and go through any and all bags so her story could be validated.
> 
> That was the night the affair began. I'm almost sure she had sex with him that night and probably many times after that but she confesses to 3x. I've repeatedly asked her to tell me the whole truth so I can *finally* be able to be the controller of my own destiny. She says I have the truth but I don't believe it.
> 
> How do I get her to tell me. Is it a futile attempt. Should I just accept the fact that I'll never get the truth. Not having the truth makes me feel like it's not worth it to stay in this relationship.


I understand your anguish. I see people here looking for details all the time. When they get them, they have mind movies they can never get rid of. If you get this catout of the bag, you will more than likely have to break up your family.

I don't see why she would come clean about something so damaging and then lie about the details. It doesn't seem logical.

Beware how much angry venom you show, the moderators will ban people if they think its out of hand.


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## Wazza

chapparal said:


> I understand your anguish. I see people here looking for details all the time. When they get them, they have mind movies they can never get rid of. If you get this catout of the bag, you will more than likely have to break up your family.
> 
> I don't see why she would come clean about something so damaging and then lie about the details. It doesn't seem logical.
> 
> Beware how much angry venom you show, the moderators will ban people if they think its out of hand.


Chap, you are right, but it's kind of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

I suspect you need to get a certain amount of detail just to realise it doesn't help and let go.

As for lying about the details, they minimise.of course they minimise. The line between tact and lying is blurred.

You have to decide for yourself what matters. And it sucks because you never totally escape it.


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## Chaparral

You are going way to fast. At this rate, your family is toast. Have you been to see your MD yet? Why not? They can really give you some temporary help. Do not put yourself in the position of revelling in the pain. It can be addictive.

Have you found a counselor yet that can handle PTSD?

If you let something like this get to you after 15 years, the burden of destroying your childrens lives will be on you. Be strong and lead. The harder the blow, the stronger you have to be. Your past problems are in no way an excuse to send your children down a disasterous path.


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## iheartlife

shecheatedVA said:


> She's stolen the most important thing (IMHO) which bonds two lovers: *TRUST*. Honestly I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to recover from this.


Let me explain why you feel this way. You are focused on their physical relationship. But the reason you feel she has lost your trust is because of "trickle truth."

Explain to her that the worst part of cheating is the lying. That is the part that cleans you out. When she writes stuff down or answers the polygraph questions, explain that to her: doling out bits and pieces of the story over time, and claiming after each time that this was the worst part or that was all of it, damages your trust all over again. You are hanging on by a thread. If she's got anything else major to share, she better share now, because otherwise she may deal a deathblow.



> I feel so bad for us and for my wonderful children. I'll still be the best father as I've been but inevitably this will damage them. I'm just so overwhelmed and sad.


Despite what I said above, please keep perspective. Extra details about how these 3 sexual events took place, while outrageously painful, don't change the substance of her story. I know it breaks your heart to hear that he gave oral, but really, would you be happier to hear he did get it up and they had rock star sex instead? When you are asking for all the details (see above) this does not mean a minute-by-minute list of what happened 15 years ago in these 3 confessed events. 

You want to know instead, just those 3 times? And did you ever communicate since then? Are you in touch with him now or since we were married? Have you ever had an inappropriate relationship with any other man (whether sexual, or virtual, emotional, or physical). 

In my view, you are evaluating whether she can be trusted _now_, over events that happened quite some time ago before you were married or engaged. While you are the only person who can judge whether you can stomach staying married over what she did back then, be careful about setting her up with expectations that she remember tiny details perfectly when they happened 15 years ago. That would be setting anyone up for failure.


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## BjornFree

chapparal said:


> If you let something like this get to you after 15 years, the burden of destroying your childrens lives will be on you. Be strong and lead. The harder the blow, the stronger you have to be. Your past problems are in no way an excuse to send your children down a disasterous path.


 I have to disagree here. He thought he'd dealt with it fifteen years ago, finding out that it was a PA is a new issue for him and not a a past problem. If he can't get over it, he can't get over it. Simple as that. Mind you, he didn't send his children down the disastrous path. His wife did, fifteen years ago. If she has to pay for it now, she has to pay for it now. There are consequences to every action. Sadly those consequences have a way of making themselves prominent when you least expect it. OP, you don't have to force yourself to stay with this woman, not for the kids and not for anybody else but yourself. You can still be a wonderful father, even after divorce. There are many divorced parents who still get along where the children are concerned.


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## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> Chap, you are right, but it's kind of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
> 
> I suspect you need to get a certain amount of detail just to realise it doesn't help and let go.
> 
> As for lying about the details, they minimise.of course they minimise. The line between tact and lying is blurred.
> 
> You have to decide for yourself what matters. And it sucks because you never totally escape it.


I have been there. I had no interset in hearing any details. I consider it illogical considering the ultimate goal.

I think I'm repeating others but I don't see the relationship of colleg age people who are not engaged or married as a permenat situation. They were not at the same stage in they're feeling for one another. I expect her gulit was very minor and has grown over the years. Even if thats not the case, the hurt that this family is going to suffer the rest of their lives if OP doesn't get himself under control, is going to make his pain pale in comparison.

If he thinks he feels bad, he should google children of divorce's problems. This isn't just about him.


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## Chaparral

BjornFree said:


> I have to disagree here. He thought he'd dealt with it fifteen years ago, finding out that it was a PA is a new issue for him and not a a past problem. If he can't get over it, he can't get over it. Simple as that. Mind you, he didn't send his children down the disastrous path. His wife did, fifteen years ago. If she has to pay for it now, she has to pay for it now. There are consequences to every action. Sadly those consequences have a way of making themselves prominent when you least expect it. OP, you don't have to force yourself to stay with this woman, not for the kids and not for anybody else but yourself. You can still be a wonderful father, even after divorce. There are many divorced parents who still get along where the children are concerned.


It is a real stretch to say someone is affecting their children fifteen years later. Bizare IMHO.... By that logic if any of her offspring generations down the line committed a crime, its her fault.

Your talking about people in their teens or very early twenties I'm guessing. OP states at the time he was more than a handful though he has convieniently not shared any of those details and it was bad enough she thought she wanted out.

But my point is, is he willing to run headlong into the destruction of his family.


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## larry.gray

True the affair was 15 years ago.

But the lies weren't. They were there the entire marriage until just recently.


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## The Cro-Magnon

chapparal said:


> It is a real stretch to say someone is affecting their children fifteen years later. Bizare IMHO.... By that logic if any of her offspring generations down the line committed a crime, its her fault.
> 
> Your talking about people in their teens or very early twenties I'm guessing. OP states at the time he was more than a handful though he has convieniently not shared any of those details and it was bad enough she thought she wanted out.
> 
> But my point is, is he willing to run headlong into the destruction of his family.


SO I killed your brother 15 years ago, SO WHAT! Just get over it already! 


Women need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!!!!!!


----------



## Wazza

larry.gray said:


> True the affair was 15 years ago.
> 
> But the lies weren't. They were there the entire marriage until just recently.


The whole marriage??? Really?

By OPs own admission there is a lot more to the marriage than just those lies. 

Does spouse get any credit for the good things she has done, regardless of whether they stay together?


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## Wazza

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> SO I killed your brother 15 years ago, SO WHAT! Just get over it already!
> 
> 
> Women need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!!!!!!


Break up the marriage. Throw away what is good in it. The kids get a broken home.

As long as we can say she has been held accountable the rest doesn't matter.

Sorry, the starting point for my wonderfully reconciled marriage was eating a sh1t sandwich and staying for the sake of my kids. It hurt like hell but long term it was worth it.

And my wife is a decent person with a conscience. The guilt he suffers over what he did holds her far more accountable than anything I could do.

Not wanting to offend or hurt anyone who made a different choice, but let's be serious. You can't just dump hell on the wife and not expect collateral damage. OP, what will your life be without her? How will it affect your children. Can you imagine it? You can't have back what you had before. But maybe you can still have her, and maybe when you get through this it can be even better. That is what happened for me.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

As others have said, you have your children involved in this situation and you need to really think about your actions and cannot react emotionally. 

Yeah, it is unfair but you have to consider others when she did not have the fortitude to do that when she made those decisions.

Please, take your time, take care of yourself, and if you need to vent do not do it in front of the children. They are the innocents in this situation. 

Get a punching bag, weights, or run. Stop with the smoking it is destructive to not only you but your children. 

Need to vent in words use the forum, as you see you will get a lot of feedback.

Good Luck


----------



## costa200

> Women need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!!!!!!


Men too!


----------



## theroad

shecheatedVA said:


> Ok. I can accept the fact that she had sex with someone. It's a hard pill to swallow and a very painful at that. *How do I get her to tell me the actual truth about the number of times they had sex?* She says it was 3 (2 if you count actual intercourse) but I simply *dont/cant* believe it.
> 
> As I previously mentioned, this affair started during the week I was on a trip. They went out drinking with some mutual friends and then she went back to his place. I called her that night to check on her and she didn't pick up. I got scared because I thought something had happenned to her. I repeatly called her was going to call hospitals. I then thought about jumping on a plane andy flying back. Continued to call until 4 am when she said she had fallen asleep.
> 
> I came back into town the next day and confronted her. She said she had gone out for some food and then passed out on the coach. I asked for the bag which had a time dated receipt. She said she threw it away so I was about to jump into a big nasty apartment dumpster and go through any and all bags so her story could be validated.
> 
> That was the night the affair began. I'm almost sure she had sex with him that night and probably many times after that but she confesses to 3x. I've repeatedly asked her to tell me the whole truth so I can *finally* be able to be the controller of my own destiny. She says I have the truth but I don't believe it.
> 
> How do I get her to tell me. Is it a futile attempt. Should I just accept the fact that I'll never get the truth. Not having the truth makes me feel like it's not worth it to stay in this relationship.


This is why you must schedule a polygraph test. Then tell your WW when the appointment is. As the date gets close she will trickle truth you to pretend she now has told you all so that you will cancel the test. Don't. Go through with the test.

On the car ride there it is very common for the WW to tell more.


----------



## theroad

Have you gotten the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley?

That book will guide you better then the posters here.

Polygraph testing - Marriage Builders® Forums


----------



## anchorwatch

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> SO I killed your brother 15 years ago, SO WHAT! Just get over it already!
> 
> 
> Women need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!!!!!!


Holy $hit, homicide? Now we're comparing this to crimes and demanding punishment. Where is the jurist prudence here. 

Let's not support his marriage and show him the way to R. No. Let us just tell him to take his retribution. An eye for an eye, yeah that's the ticket. Burn the witch. Don't consider any thing in her life since. She wears the scarlet letter. No time off for good behavior or proving herself? She should regret this for life. A death sentence to her marriage and family for a sin of her youth. Does anyone think to temper their words, or is all for effect? 

Here's more good advice,



Broken at 20 said:


> Can you get the marriage anulled under these circumstances? Any family lawyers here that can tell us this?
> 
> If you really want to get out of this, it involves:
> 
> Pulling a 180
> Working on yourself
> Filing for Divorce by yesterday
> Staying on good terms with your kids
> Putting the house up for sale
> And telling your stbxw you won't stand for this sh!t


God I'm a hard a$$, but does anyone really believe this helps someone make an informed decision about their life? 

Where can I find this advice? What author wrote this stuff? What book on infidelity or relationship can I find this written? 

Purely reactionaries. When did point and counter point debating lead into endless streams of righteousness. Where have all the vets and leaders gone from this site. My apologies Chap, Thor, Iheartlife and the other moderates, I had to get that out. 

OP, R takes time, there is no fast fix for your grief. Use your IC and MC. As many have suggested, you need to see your MD also, for something to control emotions? Have you done the reading for insight on what actually works? These are the things that will help you and your family heal. I wish you well.


----------



## costa200

> Holy $hit, homicide? Now we're comparing this to crimes and demanding punishment. Where is the jurist prudence here.


However it is interesting that in nothing else can someone cause so much pain and anguish and not be sued over it. If a guy steals my wallet in the street with some euros in it and gets caught by the cops he can get jail time. If a cheater ruins someone's life and basically damages a person forever there is, right now, absolutely no consequence.

And to add to injury, the BS can end up paying the cheater in the divorce! Now, has the west gone crazy?


----------



## C-man

Not as long a time period, but I recently found out that my wife's "EA" (4 - 5 years ago, which I knew about) had actually turned into a PA (3.5 years ago, lasting 4 - 6 months).

It doesn't matter what the time gap is - to me, the wound is as fresh and as raw as if it happened yesterday. Actually WORSE because there are the years of deception to deal with.

In fact, I believe that had my wife admitted the PA when I had discovered the EA (in 2010 after everything was done and over) - our marriage probably would have survived (with a lot of work).

As it is, I cannot forgive my wife for living a lie for 3 years - actually saying things during those three years that are twisted and cruel when viewed with the knowledge of the PA. My wife was a virgin when we married - 25 years ago. So after the EA discovery, she would say things like "well, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be with another man..... Can you live with me when I think like this?" This after she had already banged this guy mutliple times. No wonder reconciliation never worked.

In this case, I hate to say it, but I would bet that the Herpes is the result of a more recent affair, and your wife is trickle truthing the real story. Be prepared if this is true and your wife finally discloses it to you. It will be another knife through the heart.

Get into MC and IC and make sure your wife is committed to both. And ask yourself if you could ever trust her again. If not - call it off sooner rather than later. It will be easier for you.


----------



## Wazza

Cedarman said:


> Not as long a time period, but I recently found out that my wife's "EA" (4 - 5 years ago, which I knew about) had actually turned into a PA (3.5 years ago, lasting 4 - 6 months).
> 
> It doesn't matter what the time gap is - to me, the wound is as fresh and as raw as if it happened yesterday. Actually WORSE because there are the years of deception to deal with.
> 
> In fact, I believe that had my wife admitted the PA when I had discovered the EA (in 2010 after everything was done and over) - our marriage probably would have survived (with a lot of work).
> 
> As it is, I cannot forgive my wife for living a lie for 3 years - actually saying things during those three years that are twisted and cruel when viewed with the knowledge of the PA. My wife was a virgin when we married - 25 years ago. So after the EA discovery, she would say things like "well, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be with another man..... Can you live with me when I think like this?" This after she had already banged this guy mutliple times. No wonder reconciliation never worked.
> 
> In this case, I hate to say it, but I would bet that the Herpes is the result of a more recent affair, and your wife is trickle truthing the real story. Be prepared if this is true and your wife finally discloses it to you. It will be another knife through the heart.
> 
> Get into MC and IC and make sure your wife is committed to both. And ask yourself if you could ever trust her again. If not - call it off sooner rather than later. It will be easier for you.


Huh? I mised the herpes bit. What post number?


----------



## Wazza

*Re: Just found out my wife's emotional affair was also physical. Don't know what to*



Broken at 20 said:


> Can you get the marriage anulled under these circumstances? Any family lawyers here that can tell us this?
> 
> If you really want to get out of this, it involves:
> 
> Pulling a 180
> Working on yourself
> Filing for Divorce by yesterday
> Staying on good terms with your kids
> Putting the house up for sale
> And telling your stbxw you won't stand for this sh!t


Broken, I hope you are still watching this thread. I want to ask you to comment on your own advice.

Right now, your parents are still divorcing, your dad is preparing to screw your mom financially as he heads for the ow, your house has been sold, your college is under threat, and your younger brother and sister are suffering.

You are having a terrible time, but if you can write about it really honestly, it might help others.

Which of your parents would you give your advice to?

If you could wave a magic wand and change the world, would you rather your parents divorced, or that your dad quit cheating and went back to your mom?

If SheCheated was your dad, what would you want him to do? I know there are differences in your parents situation, but but i still think your advice would be a useful perspective.


----------



## shecheatedVA

So today was another tough day. I can't stop thinking about the fact that she let the other due go down on her and she came. It keeps replaying in my head. I can't believe she let someone she talked to for a little bit do that with her. I'm sure it's OK with a lot but she was always a little prude with stuff like that. I've read that women allow themselves to be more courageous affairs sexually. 

I don't know why it's bugging me so much. I keep saying it happened in the past, you can't change it, why are continually thinking about it? There is nothing that will come except bringing yourself extreme amounts of pain. It won't change the situation. It won't change the past. The only person who dies each time you obsess about it is me. 

I guess it's my ego wanted to kick my a$$. He keeps telling me how much better the experience was though she says it was that particular act that gave her so much guilt that she realized she didn't have the type of connection with the other guy as she initially believed. Really? If it was that uncomfortable and guilt ridden, how the hell were you able to O? 

The other guy evidently had issues and he loved to partake in giving women oral. According to her, he was a wanna be poet and loved to act like an intellect. Though everything in his life was quite the opposite. As we were finishing college, getting ready for the real world, had aspirations and goal, he wanted to live like a minimalist, work a dead end job and read books. Classic omega - based on what I read but my wife was a fool who feel for his words when she was low. She said he like to read books to her and tell her about characters that reminded him of her. She said he use to shower her with compliments like how beautiful, smart, grounded she was. Just stroking her ego up. She says she was a fool and fell for it.

I'm like why should I really care what they did sexually? They had sex but why do I beat myself up replaying the acts based on the information she's provided me? I want them to stop. The more I play them, the more broken down and bitter I get. I keep saying it's your ego trying to bust you down. Stop thinking about it. Stop it you fool, your just hurting yourself. But then I go back and do it all over again. 

(I think one of the previous post was about herpes. Think you read that in another post and thought it was me. AFAIK I don't have herpes).


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> So today was another tough day. I can't stop thinking about the fact that she let the other due go down on her and she came. It keeps replaying in my head. I can't believe she let someone she talked to for a little bit do that with her. I'm sure it's OK with a lot but she was always a little prude with stuff like that. I've read that women allow themselves to be more courageous affairs sexually.
> 
> I don't know why it's bugging me so much. I keep saying it happened in the past, you can't change it, why are continually thinking about it? There is nothing that will come except bringing yourself extreme amounts of pain. It won't change the situation. It won't change the past. The only person who dies each time you obsess about it is me.
> 
> I guess it's my ego wanted to kick my a$$. He keeps telling me how much better the experience was though she says it was that particular act that gave her so much guilt that she realized she didn't have the type of connection with the other guy as she initially believed. Really? If it was that uncomfortable and guilt ridden, how the hell were you able to O?
> 
> The other guy evidently had issues and he loved to partake in giving women oral. According to her, he was a wanna be poet and loved to act like an intellect. Though everything in his life was quite the opposite. As we were finishing college, getting ready for the real world, had aspirations and goal, he wanted to live like a minimalist, work a dead end job and read books. Classic omega - based on what I read but my wife was a fool who feel for his words when she was low. She said he like to read books to her and tell her about characters that reminded him of her. She said he use to shower her with compliments like how beautiful, smart, grounded she was. Just stroking her ego up. She says she was a fool and fell for it.
> 
> I'm like why should I really care what they did sexually? They had sex but why do I beat myself up replaying the acts based on the information she's provided me? I want them to stop. The more I play them, the more broken down and bitter I get. I keep saying it's your ego trying to bust you down. Stop thinking about it. Stop it you fool, your just hurting yourself. But then I go back and do it all over again.
> 
> (I think one of the previous post was about herpes. Think you read that in another post and thought it was me. AFAIK I don't have herpes).


Man, you talk like what is happening in your head it unusual. It is exactly what happens. You just have to take the time to work through it and regain perspective.

It hurts like hell but you can get through it.

You can get through it.


----------



## MarriedTex

This is not a justification for your wife, just hopefully some food for thought as you wrestle with this.

By your own admission, you were not totally well at this point. Fighting your own demons. I'm sure, in some way, she felt alone in trying to cope with this. Remember, you're looking at this issue from 30+ year old eyes now. A lot different that the perspective of a college kid.

And, I know you were living together. But, guess what? You had not yet taken the vows of "in sickness and in health." That was a deeper level of commitment that you made later in your relationship. By some measures, you were sick at that point. While you were in a "committed" relationship, it wasn't the level of commitment that we associate with full-blown marriage, kids, picket-fence etc. Face it. She was immature and looking for re-assurance for herself at a rocky time.

Does that excuse what she did? No. She needs to own her reasons for her actions. They were hurtful. I believe her biggest sin here was not the affair but, rather, not giving you the full set of information before you made your deeper commitment to one another.

All this said, I urge you to consider viewing this as a mistake of immaturity and uncertainty brought on by your own illness at a time when her commitment to you is truly not equal to the level it is now. Assuming that she has been a faithful companion since - and particularly since your marriage - maybe you can find some justfication for forgiving her. 

If she has been a good wife in the years after her indiscretion, this should count for something. You are right to be angry. It was a betrayal of you. But she appears remorseful. Her actions since have spoken well for her and her relationship with you. 

Put conditions on her now. Open facebook, e-mail, communications etc. Make her take the poly. Get closure for yourself. But also resolve to find a way to forgive if your heart allows you to do so.


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## Jonesey

costa200 said:


> Men too!


:iagree:


----------



## Chaparral

I warned you not to go digging further because it would just make you suffer more mind movies. Maybe you will listen now.

For what its worth ,your wife picked you and and dumped him, breaking his heart and crushing his ego. 

I still find it odd that you ever asked her in the first place. You described your life as happy before that and now you just keep diiging you hole deeper and deeper. It seems you have always had issues of insecurity,is that true?

What are all these personal issues you have had? It seems you are leaving a lot out and this is an annoymous forum.

Remember, according to studies, half of all marriages fail and in somehting like only about half the rest claim to be happy. My point is that to be happy you had better work on saving your family ?

Kids first.

What advise have you taken to heart and what actions have you taken.


----------



## BjornFree

chapparal said:


> I warned you not to go digging further because it would just make you suffer more mind movies. Maybe you will listen now.
> 
> For what its worth ,your wife picked you and and dumped him, breaking his heart and crushing his ego.


This will eat at him and drive him mad. The truth, however painful it is, is liberating. 

For what its worth, I don't think a lot of men and women want to settle for being second best. She dumped him after she had her fun. That is the bottom line. The Op doesn't care if the OM's heart is broken or his ego is shred to pieces and he shouldn't.

The way I see it, the OP is slowly going to build up so much resentment that both their lives and the children's lives are going to be miserable if they rugsweep this, which is kind of what you're suggesting. Better to have the whole truth and make a decision than prolong the agony. JMO


----------



## bfree

BjornFree said:


> This will eat at him and drive him mad. The truth, however painful it is, is liberating.
> 
> For what its worth, I don't think a lot of men and women want to settle for being second best. She dumped him after she had her fun. That is the bottom line. The Op doesn't care if the OM's heart is broken or his ego is shred to pieces and he shouldn't.
> 
> The way I see it, the OP is slowly going to build up so much resentment that both their lives and the children's lives are going to be miserable if they rugsweep this, which is kind of what you're suggesting. *Better to have the whole truth and make a decision than prolong the agony*. JMO


And it would have been nice if he had the whole truth before 15 years of marriage and children had complicated things. For all the mind movies he's going through now, I think that's the part he's going to eventually have to focus on and that may be the most difficult aspect for him to get over.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

BjornFree said:


> This will eat at him and drive him mad. The truth, however painful it is, is liberating.
> 
> For what its worth, I don't think a lot of men and women want to settle for being second best. She dumped him after she had her fun. That is the bottom line. The Op doesn't care if the OM's heart is broken or his ego is shred to pieces and he shouldn't.
> 
> The way I see it, the OP is slowly going to build up so much resentment that both their lives and the children's lives are going to be miserable if they rugsweep this, which is kind of what you're suggesting. *Better to have the whole truth and make a decision than prolong the agony. *JMO


But the problem with this is should this be deliberated on and treated as being equivalent to a wife having a PA just last week and him finding out? IMHO, this discovery is more along the lines of a supporting detail as opposed to being a main idea. What I mean by that is that it would be good to take into account if the wife had a number of other problems that made a bad marriage. But from what we know, it seems like their marriage was very strong up until the OP found out about his wife's activities prior to being married. I get that it sucks to find out about this now, but to kill a marriage over this should not be taken lightly. IMHO, I would strongly advise the OP to do everything in his power to get the help he needs to get over this as best he can. He and his wife will have to address this head on so that the OP can heal from this. But he needs to keep in mind the many years of dedication and faithfulness his wife gave to him. OP knows already that his sex life with her is much more fulfilling that what she had with the OM 15+ years ago.


----------



## BjornFree

I didn't suggest killing the marriage. But if they do want to continue with the marriage, its better for the OP to know all the gory details. Rugsweeping won't help him get over it now, will it??

Read


----------



## aug

BjornFree said:


> I didn't suggest killing the marriage. But if they do want to continue with the marriage, its better for the OP to know all the gory details. Rugsweeping won't help him get over it now, will it??


I agree. It is better to know than not. Deliberately not knowing can be compared to rug sweeping. Knowing helps both OP and his wife - his wife gets freedom from hiding and the OP gets to have a more realistic view.


----------



## bfree

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But the problem with this is should this be deliberated on and treated as being equivalent to a wife having a PA just last week and him finding out? IMHO, this discovery is more along the lines of a supporting detail as opposed to being a main idea. What I mean by that is that it would be good to take into account if the wife had a number of other problems that made a bad marriage. But from what we know, it seems like their marriage was very strong up until the OP found out about his wife's activities prior to being married. I get that it sucks to find out about this now, but to kill a marriage over this should not be taken lightly. IMHO, I would strongly advise the OP to do everything in his power to get the help he needs to get over this as best he can. He and his wife will have to address this head on so that the OP can heal from this. But he needs to keep in mind the many years of dedication and faithfulness his wife gave to him. OP knows already that his sex life with her is much more fulfilling that what she had with the OM 15+ years ago.


But the 15 year lie almost invalidates the good marriage they had in the OP's mind because it was built on a lie. How does he reconcile the feeling that he was the backup plan for her? How does he reconcile all the "I love you's" she gave him with the fact that she has lied all these years? I'm sure he's wondering how you can love someone and lie to their face for a decade and a half. How does he rebuild the trust he once had in her? And most important, his image of her is shattered. It will never return. It can't. The woman he thought he knew, the woman he thought he could count on, the one person he implicitly trusted in the entire world is gone and really never existed. That's a hard thing to "get over."


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

bfree said:


> But the 15 year lie almost invalidates the good marriage they had in the OP's mind because it was built on a lie. How does he reconcile the feeling that he was the backup plan for her? How does he reconcile all the "I love you's" she gave him with the fact that she has lied all these years? I'm sure he's wondering how you can love someone and lie to their face for a decade and a half. How does he rebuild the trust he once had in her? And most important, his image of her is shattered. It will never return. It can't. The woman he thought he knew, the woman he thought he could count on, the one person he implicitly trusted in the entire world is gone and really never existed. That's a hard thing to "get over."


Was the OP a backup plan? I don't think so. What I do think is that his wife (then GF) couldn't cope with the problems that he was going through and stepped out on him while they were dating. I think she did realize that the OM was not the best for her up front, but then realized it was worse than she thought. 

People also change from what they once were to who they are today. Neither you nor I will ever know what the whole situation is. That will be up to the OP to weight how his wife acted throughout the marriage and what he knows to be true. I believe that his wife loves him very much and on a level much deeper today than when they were dating 15 years ago. Only he can weigh what he has with his wife over what she did to him 15 years ago.


----------



## iheartlife

I agree, the backup plan doesn't make sense, in light of the fact they were not engaged, they were very young, etc. What I'd focus on is the fact that instead of picking an equal or better replacement person, she chose a man who even she had to realize wasn't a viable alternative to OP. 

When two people have been married, it's quite common to "affair down," meaning, to choose a person who isn't as attractive, supportive, good a person, etc. as their current spouse. But that's largely due to availability--most people don't want to be involved with a married person, so people who enter into affairs can't be choosey. Plus, most people want to "cake-eat"--they're not looking for spouse #2.

But here, she had every single ability to be choosey, but she didn't. What that tells me is that she really wanted OP all along. She could have picked someone who would now be her husband, but she didn't. Not because OP was some sort of backup plan--it's because she really loved OP all along. Of course having sex with this man was a sh*tty way to show it. Extremely immature, the whole nine yards.

If she had shown any other evidence of being unfaithful at all--like, for example, if she'd kept in touch with OM--if she did inappropriate things like GNOs--if she friends and messages men on facebook--if she was a little too friendly with male coworkers--anything at all--well, then we could safely say that her affair just launched her career as someone who liked the idea of being married but wasn't up for a full commitment. But I don't see any evidence of that at all.

Instead, what I see is a woman who went down on her knees and gave a full streaming snot out of the nose apology. That hardly ever happens, if you read enough threads. I don't think that apology was insincere. 

Lying for a long time about cheating is extremely damaging to trust in a relationship. That is a truism. Trickle-truth will take the tiny bit of trust that is left and snuff it out of existence. She is doing what thousands of other cheaters have done before, but that's not because she's an evil b*tch. It's because like all other cheaters, she thinks minimizing is a terrific idea. For someone who wants to reconcile, it's stupid as hell. But there's a big difference between calculating evil (seen with _cake-eaters_ wanting to keep a current affair) and stupid.

And as I've said several times, OP has to figure out what he can live with, and he has to make absolutely certain he has the truth (not the full truth so he can make better mind movies--the truth about the scope of the affair and whether she's been faithful since then). And OP has to determine whether she's a liar in general and whether she can be trusted in general. But if the truth is, she was selfish 20 years ago and stupid ever since, but not unfaithful, I know I would not divorce such a person who had given me many years of happiness.


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## bfree

I agree completely but I think they tendency here has been to minimize what the OP is feeling when it is weighed against their 15 year marriage. The point is that his image of his wife is shattered forever. He has to somehow come to grips with that and learn to accept his wife for what she is and what she was, even if he didn't see it at the time. Whether he was a backup plan or not is something he has to resolve for himself. He cannot rely on what his wife says because her credibility is not very good right now. You are also correct that when he was at a low point she stepped out on him. I'm sure he is also questioning whether his wife will once again step out on him if and when he faulters a little. Does she have the fortitude to ride things out with him or will she bail when things get rough? Has she changed? Maybe so but people don't completely change. Is that flight reflex she had in college still there just waiting to reemerge? I'm sure she loves him but how many threads here on TAM have the WS saying how much they love their BS, even when fully engaged in an affair.

Basically the OP has to decide if this is a dealbreaker for him. For many people it would be regardless of the apparent happy 15 year marriage. Some people cannot abide betrayal in any form. The OP has to decide if he can or not.


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## Wazza

Count me among those who think the notion of OP being plan b is so ridiculous as to not even merit consideration.

SheCheated, I sometimes get the urge to fill in more details of wife's affair. I get why you have to ask, and telling you not to is probably pointless, as it would be for me. Not knowing more hurts. Knowing more might hurt. Or you might be told that something isn't as bad as your imagination made it and then you struggle to believe that.

It's like an itch you always ave and you have to decide whether to scratch it.

Over time it stops hurting so much.

Question is, will it stop hurting if you leave her?

I never left my wife, so I can only talk theoretically about that, but my answer is no. Firstly she is a great wife and a great person, well above average and very suited to me. Second is that I think everyone has it in them to cheat. She's made her mistake and, I believe, learned her lesson. That makes her a better bet than someone who thinks they are abve all that.


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## shecheatedVA

I just want to reiterate how helpful the last few pages of posts have been. I really appreciate the different perspectives and I am taking heavily to the comments and feedback that have been provided.

I really don't think I was the backup plan. She intended on leaving me but somewhere along the way realized how much she really did love and care for me. She never intended on having a physical affair (according to her). She didn't even find him physically attractive. She knew it was wrong but it started off as someone telling her things she wanted and needed to hear. As I said earlier this fat loser was really into being a wanna be intellect and poet. I'm sure compared to a dumb fraternity 20 something, he could really pile on the BS. Being a naive young girl, she fell for his $hit. Somewhere along the way the words turned in sexual acts and she realized she didn't feel anything from him regardless of how sweet his words sounded. 

I am struggling everyday. Some times during the day I can let go but then when I think about how much I love her, it hurts the most. I've never felt this type of pain in my life. You can never escape yourself so it's a constant struggle. I love her soul but have a really hard time letting go and thinking about being able to forgive her. Maybe the wound is still too fresh and only time will tell. For the sake of my children, I want to be patient so neither I or they have regrets because she hurt my ego and manhood.

The connection we have seems to be deeper. Like our souls are one. We share the same life philosophy and have an open communication. She has been my best friend and the person I've relied on for over 1/2 my life. She's my family even if I don't stay married to her. 

Thanks again everyone. You have been greatly helpful and kind. I'm appreciative of the time it must take to put down such insightful, thoughtful feedback instead of the one liners.


----------



## happyman64

Shecheated

I wanted to chime in and say *STOP* thinking of these sex acts.

You are going to keep replaying them in your mind and all you are doing is torturing yourself.

Now I am going to be the voice of reason like so few have been on your thread.

Do not move out. Work on your marriage and this past infidelity together.

Moving out will accomplish nothing for you except kill your marriage easier.

Having a revenge affair will do nothing for you but make you feel worse and then your wife will hate you too!

2 wrongs never make it right.

Your girlfriend did you wrong. No question about that. But your marriage has not been a sham.

From what you have told us your wife has been loyal, loving, affectionate, a great friend and an great mother.

Now did your girlfriend screw up? Yes she did.
Has she minimized this cheating over the course of your marriage? Yes she has.
Did you marry her under false pretenses? Yes you did. But you were not married. You were not engaged. If you knew the truth would you have married her??? I think there is a maybe in there somewhere. 

Because you knew something was not right. You forgave her. And you married her.

But here is what so few have spoken to you about.

She chose you!

And here is another concept that many have not spoken about. She answered you truthfully. And that is very rare after someone who is married for so many years normally the truth usually does not happen.

Why?

Because she knew you could walk away from the marriage if she told you the truth.

So as disgusted as you are and I do not blame you.

Give your wife some credit. She could still be lying to you as I write this but instead she came clean.

And her past history as your wife is really good.

I do not care if it straight sex, oral sex or any other sex. Sex is sex.

She was in a bad place when you two were going out.
You were in a bad place when you two were going out.

She chose poorly. You did not.

Both of you have to deal with it now! Together!

So as hard as you feel it is and I understand this wound is fresh for you while it is old for her, Rip off the bandages, go to counseling.

You both have the chance to have a great marriage and a great family.

Get to the bottom of her issues. Make sure she gets them dealt with so you both can be happy.

And get to the root of your childhood issues too. So you can be happy as well.

You will be amazed at what two people who love each other can accomplish.

I was in your shoes with a [email protected] of a fiance many years ago. The only difference is I caught her with a few of my closest friends. I ditched the friends and the fiance.

So I understand betrayal.

But I have been with the my wife 26 years now (married 20) and I can tell you how fruitful a great marriage, family and friend can be.

Do not quit. Neither of you. Work out those self esteem, childhood issues together. The Power of Two is so much greater than the Power of One.

Good Luck.

HM64

PS
Stop thinking of the POSOM. Stop looking for the POSOM. He cannot hold a candle to you. Why the hell do you think your wife chose you. Yes, she went about it in a crappy way. Don't you think she knows that??? Everybody makes mistakes. And certain people are entitled to 2nd chances if they have earned them.....


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## aug

Take your time. As much time as you need to process your thoughts and feelings. You need to process them so that you can live with them.

If after you have and you feel the marriage was a sham, you can decide then on what to do.


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## Duramax

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duramax

ive read most of the post. they werent married or engaged and dated only a short time. why would either have a right to stop the other from going out with who they wished. Maybe i missed something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

Duramax said:


> ive read most of the post. they werent married or engaged and dated only a short time. why would either have a right to stop the other from going out with who they wished. Maybe i missed something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You missed it. Fours years together when she cheated.


----------



## Duramax

Acabado said:


> You missed it. Fours years together when she cheated
> 
> Despite the 4 years they were young college people who were keeping their options open. Alot of couples date and live together for years only to break up and the break up is usually not mutual. I dont know what they agreed to but dating is a little more casual and has less expectations than engagement or marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

I disagree with some of the recent posts. So he should be happy that she chose him in the end after all, right ? So I guess it wouldn't be wrong for him to search for a few more partners now to see if they are better than a cheating wife. Better cheat now than cheat 30 years into the marriage when she will have fewer options.

Telling that cheating at college level is acceptable is so ridiculous that I won't even argue about it. If that is the case, marriage can be argued as just a legal agreement for the convenience of the state.


----------



## Wazza

warlock07 said:


> I disagree with some of the recent posts. So he should be happy that she chose him in the end after all, right ? So I guess it wouldn't be wrong for him to search for a few more partners now to see if they are better than a cheating wife. Better cheat now than cheat 30 years into the marriage when she will have fewer options.
> 
> Telling that cheating at college level is acceptable is so ridiculous that I won't even argue about it. If that is the case, marriage can be argued as just a legal agreement for the convenience of the state.


I don't think anyone has said it's good she cheated. I think they have asked whether in this case it is worth ending the marriage over.


----------



## shecheatedVA

Well we thought it would be good idea to get a babysitter and get some time to ourselves. I knew the night wasn't going to go good seeing I went into after a particularly hard day at work with stress, sadness and the mind movies. Another bad idea - we decided to go get drinks at the bar. The discussion started light just talking about other people etc. Things weren't great but it was like being on a boring date. Not much real conversations and just drinking and eating food. The drinks came one by one and my anger and ego started to take over slowly but surely.

After slushing down more than a few, we moved to another bar and thats where the discussions started getting uglier. It started with talks about how much she hurt me to how she could that to how in the f*ck could you let that fat [email protected] stick his c0ck inside you. We tried to contain ourselves but I'm sure other people at the bar probably overheard some of the conversations. This went on for a while until we decided to just end the night.

Once we got in the car, I just let it all out and we were fighting like we haven't for quite some time. Just screaming back and forth. She's crying throwing sh!t in my car, kicking the console, etc. Telling me to f*ck off and just give her the papers. I was yelling back calling her names and letting her know the papers will be here soon but not until I go f*ck a few hot bodied young 20 somethings. I mean it go sh1tty. I don't know why I said those things but the combination of the way I have been feeling compounded by the alcohol just made a side of me come out. I guess my ego finally took over and had it's way. She's crying and screaming and I'm yelling back. She's demanding to take her home. I'm saying we're not leaving until I get the full f*cken truth. She keeps saying you have the truth. I ask how many times did you have sex. 2 and once oral. How long did this go on? 6-8 weeks! I don't believe her and keep asking and she just keeps saying the same thing back. I was hoping she would finally be pushed so far and not give a **** to try to reconcile, that she would finally say something like it went on for 6 months and they did it over 20+ times. Is that what I want to hear? Is it that I can't accept the fact she only did it 3 times. Is it that I'm a guy and I image that if that was me I'd be banging the girl out each and every chance I got? I just don't know??

Interestingly enough we come home and end up having sex. I'm not talking normal but type you up, slap your ass, pull your hair, f*ck you face kind of sex. It was actually pretty hot. I don't know what the hell we're doing!!!? 

We eat afterwards and go to sleep. This morning has been weird. No talking though the kids do consume the majority of our time on the weekends.


----------



## anchorwatch

If you keep attacking her she'll make your decision for you. That's probably what your ego wants. 

“Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.”

When will you do the real work?

You've been advised. 

Get to your IC and MD and deal with the anger!


----------



## costa200

Wazza said:


> I don't think anyone has said it's good she cheated. I think they have asked whether in this case it is worth ending the marriage over.


No, there are clearly some posts totally pointing out that since he wasn't married he almost can't call it cheating. Personally i think those people have a screwed up vision of relationships. 

If there is a tacit agreement that you are exclusive then you must behave as such. Take this post for example:



> Despite the 4 years they were young college people who were keeping their options open. Alot of couples date and live together for years only to break up and the break up is usually not mutual. I dont know what they agreed to but dating is a little more casual and has less expectations than engagement or marriage.


Seriously? 4 years living together sounds "casual" to you? It's a free for all until you get some formal paper? Damn, i would hate having people with that sort of attitude trying to hook up with anyone i'm close to.


----------



## Wazza

costa200 said:


> No, there are clearly some posts totally pointing out that since he wasn't married he almost can't call it cheating. Personally i think those people have a screwed up vision of relationships.
> 
> If there is a tacit agreement that you are exclusive then you must behave as such. Take this post for example:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? 4 years living together sounds "casual" to you? It's a free for all until you get some formal paper? Damn, i would hate having people with that sort of attitude trying to hook up with anyone i'm close to.


No it doesn't sound casual to me.

My view is she made a mistake. A wrong decision. When she was younger. I am arguing for forgiveness, not that the crime didn't tater,


----------



## snap

costa200 said:


> Seriously? 4 years living together sounds "casual" to you? It's a free for all until you get some formal paper? Damn, i would hate having people with that sort of attitude trying to hook up with anyone i'm close to.


Apparently if one is serious they should propose after 3rd date. 

Really, a lot of honest-to-God, til-the-death-parts-us marriages don't last even 4 years. This exercise in establishing degrees of cheating is ridiculous.


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> No it doesn't sound casual to me.
> 
> My view is she made a mistake. A wrong decision. When she was younger. I am arguing for forgiveness, not that the crime didn't tater,


Well forgiveness and reconciliation will come in its own time. I think people should stop forcing the concept of forgiveness down the OP's throat. It hasn't been too long since he found out and he'll need some time to get over the shock and then he can come to a decision.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

warlock07 said:


> I disagree with some of the recent posts. So he should be happy that she chose him in the end after all, right ? So I guess it wouldn't be wrong for him to search for a few more partners now to see if they are better than a cheating wife. Better cheat now than cheat 30 years into the marriage when she will have fewer options.
> 
> Telling that cheating at college level is acceptable is so ridiculous that I won't even argue about it. If that is the case, marriage can be argued as just a legal agreement for the convenience of the state.


Whose posts are you disagreeing with specifically - Duramax's posts or additional posts made by me and happyman64?

I can only speak for myself, but no he should not happily accept the fact that she chose him in the end after she cheated on him when they were BF/GF in college. But at this stage of the game, what do you suggest the OP do? Despite the fact that in his mind the infidelity felt like it occurred just last week, it's not the same as if his wife did have an 8 wk affair where she was physical with the OM on 3 separate occasions within the year. He has to take into account that he has kids with this woman and he needs to take inventory of the quality of this marriage during the past 10+ years. If the OP has to divorce his wife over this because he feels that the 8 wk affair 15 years ago plus the failure to confess the affair took place for 15 years outweighs all of the life experiences that he and his wife shared during his marriage then that is his call. All I am saying is that he needs to weigh this carefully, and evaluate the entire situation as objectively as possible.

There are an awful lot of posters in this thread telling the OP to divorce his wife because his marriage is based on a lie and that he was her fall back plan. People are fueling the ideas in his head that he needs to question every single time his wife told him that she loved him and that she cared for him, etc. The rationale behind this is if he was this fall back plan, then she is probably faking this love and affection for him all of these years. Hey, it's definitely possible. However, it's highly unlikely. I would bet my entire life savings that the OP's wife COULD NOT fake it all of these years without the OP sensing that there was something wrong. First off, I don't think anyone could do this for so long. Second, if she was faking it then I have zero doubts that she wouldn't have continued to look around throughout the marriage for a better guy. From what the OP wrote, this didn't happen at all. Per the OP, his wife was 100% faithful to this marriage and fully committed to him and the children.

OP, you are the only one that can determine what you want to do. I suggest you weigh EVERYTHING that happened between the 2 of you from the time you first started dating up to now and determine if her infidelity and keeping of this secret is bigger than the love your wife showed to you and your children throughout your marriage. If the infidelity is bigger, then serve her with the papers. If the marriage is strong and you can see through your wife's actions that she was fully committed to you and your family, then get yourself whatever help you need to get through this and work on healing the wounds between you and your wife.


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## snap

Plan 9, short of becoming mind-reader it's impossible to know now how close was her story to complete truth. He doesn't know how often she thought of that other guy in the 15 years. How she held her affair over after a squabble or occasional fight. Who else knew: her friends, her family. Etc.

Yes he should think hard what he's going to do but the situation is not a no-brainer like many here present it.


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## BjornFree

Plan 9, isn't that the real dilemma here, the fact that he cannot trust her when she says she was faithful or when she says it was only thrice. No one's asking him to serve her papers. All they're asking him to do is to verify and weigh the facts and make her take the polygraph. And if he chooses to divorce, then that is the way it was meant to be. 

Speaking from personal experience, lies are in fact easier to handle than half truths. At least with lies, you'll know for sure that the story doesn't add up once you start seeing the truth. It is much tougher to trust your own judgement while dealing with the latter.

Its better to find out that your wife was having an affair when she denied it entirely than have someone admit it was only an EA and then find out much later, after coming to terms with the EA, that your wife didn't just have an EA, she actually fvcked him and chose to omit it from her confession


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## Duramax

i agree with plan 9. i still feel theirs a big difference between being married or engaged and dating. That said this fellow has already damaged his good marriage by obsessing on his then girlfriends tryst. a better description of my feeling is the word "girlfriend" as opposed to "wife"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree

Duramax said:


> i agree with plan 9. i still feel theirs a big difference between being married or engaged and dating. That said this fellow has already damaged his good marriage by obsessing on his then girlfriends tryst. a better description of my feeling is the word "girlfriend" as opposed to "wife"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No difference save for a legal record.

Good marriages are built on pillars of truth among other things. If he had known that his then girlfriend had indeed had a tryst maybe he could say today that she was his then girlfriend and not his current wife, if anything this marriage was damaged even before it started because it was a lie. All of the people saying she chose the OP over the AP, yeah well that's the truth but she chose the OP after she had had her fun. Who wants to be the default option?


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## snap

Duramax said:


> That said this fellow has already damaged his good marriage by obsessing on his then girlfriends tryst. a better description of my feeling is the word "girlfriend" as opposed to "wife"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just fail to see the distinction here. Does that mean girlfriends don't really cheat? Or you shouldn't be heartbroken over that? Or that your cheater girlfriend magically turns into totally different person the day you exchange rings?


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## Plan 9 from OS

snap said:


> Plan 9, *short of becoming mind-reader it's impossible to know now how close was her story to complete truth. He doesn't know how often she thought of that other guy in the 15 years.* How she held her affair over after a squabble or occasional fight. Who else knew: her friends, her family. Etc.
> 
> Yes he should think hard what he's going to do but the situation is not a no-brainer like many here present it.


The problem with this line of thinking is that it applies to a much broader set of people than just the OP and his wife. All of us are in the same boat, because unless we are mind readers we will never know if our spouses are fantasizing about other people in sexual ways, regularly reminiscing about old flames or quietly pining for a way to get out of the marriage altogether but not seeing a good way to exit. The OP has the added complexity that his then GF cheated on him 15 years ago, and he is struggling with the question of whether his now wife truly wanted him or if he was a fallback plan. What I am pointing out is that the OP needs to sift through all the data he has and make his determination. Read through his thread and there are people advising him to throw it away - or more realistically to weight the 8 weeks of infidelity at a high level and underweight the tangible life experiences he and his wife had throughout their marriage. At least that is what it looks like to me. 

No, he should not simply ignore that this happened and pretend it didn't. I never said that. But he needs to do his best to look objectively at what his life was like since his marriage. He needs to look at the tangible actions his wife took throughout the marriage - not second guess every action and interpret it through the eyes of the affair. All I'm calling for is for the OP to make an honest assessment. As Ayn Rand would say "A is A", and the OP needs to keep that in mind as oppose to speculating on whether this is real or that is real. The body of evidence throughout the marriage will tell him if his wife was truly in love with him or if she was faking it without having to speculate on whether events need to be second guessed or not.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Broken at 20 said:


> What I find curious, is she lied for 15 years, never telling him. *15 years and never a thought about maybe she should tell him* so he can decide whether or not he wants to be with a lying cheating tramp.
> 
> *I wonder what other skeletons are up in that closet of her's...*


1) You have no way to prove this statement. She may have thought about this situation frequently and decided against not telling her husband because of shame and guilt. Assuming that she is a cold and heartless b!tch trying to milk the OP for all he's worth is highly unlikely given what we know through the OP about his marriage. 

2) Yes...let's make one-off statements to throw the OP into a bigger panic than he is already experiencing. He needs to sift the evidence he knows from the time of the affair and compare it to what he knows about her within the marriage. All this throw away statement does is pour gasoline on a bonfire. Frankly, it's not helpful to the OP at all...


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## shecheatedVA

I am trying to weigh the time we've had since then but I keep getting stuck in the details. I think about how exciting and passionate their affair had been. From what I keep reading, from the cheater's perspective, there was a lot of guilt but so much animalistic passion that the experience is something they've never been able to re-live. That thought just drives me bonkers. 

I knew it was thrilling. I know it was exciting. Hell the other guy didn't even have to be that good. It was the environment, the right conditions, the deceit and secrecy of it was what made it hotter. She told me she came. I want to ask her how hard it was. At that point, I know I didn't go down on her and I remember this guy talking about how he didn't like sex as much as eating pu$$y. I want to ask her the details because it's driving me crazy but at the same time not sure if I want to hear what she says.

The logical part of me reminds me regardless of how hot the exchange was, it probably pales in comparison to how much guilt and sadness she's had to carry all these years. According to her, she went into a deep depression, where she was very self deprecating because the damage she believed it had done to her character. She swears that after that she never even considered doing that to me. To fight the guilt, she repressed the memories.

Get this $hit, she told me the other day, that she's not even sure if they had sex the last time around. Huh? How the hell are you going to not remember if you had sex or not. I asked did you take your clothes off and she says she remembers that but can't honestly remember the actual intercourse or the sexual exchange. I called BS on that but the more I thought, could it be possible that you can make yourself forget if you feel so bad? Who knows, I'm not a mind reader and the only way to know for sure would be to read her mind. 

Cheaters, I have a question which I hope you can be honest about? Was the sex the best sex you had in your life? Was the experience made even hotter because of the condition of deceit and guilt? From what I've read on other boards and here, it was. It was so emotional like a high not felt before and hard to re-experience especially if you were doing it from a position of being hurt, guilt and pure sexual animalism. I mean the guy could of been hung like a peanut and still at the end gave her such pleasure which can't be re-created because the right concoction of emotions simply isn't present. 

What kicks me in the nuts is the fact, this short compared to our relationship, experience has been so impactful on her. That douche bag, regardless of an omega, slob, schmuck he was left an imprint on her that she can't wash off. That makes me insignificant even though we've had the biggest life experiences together (eg marriage, houses, vacations, total intimacy, children). 

I feel somewhere that I can't let a few hours of raw sexual pleasure replace the long and loving relationship we had. But then Mr. Ego comes back and he says, you fool don't be so stupid. 

Dump that b1tch!


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## Acabado

Broken at 20 said:


> What I find curious, is she lied for 15 years, never telling him. 15 years and *never a thought about maybe she should tell him* so he can decide whether or not he wants to be with a lying cheating tramp.
> 
> I wonder what other skeletons are up in that closet of her's...


Did you bother to read the whole thread?


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## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Well forgiveness and reconciliation will come in its own time. I think people should stop forcing the concept of forgiveness down the OP's throat. It hasn't been too long since he found out and he'll need some time to get over the shock and then he can come to a decision.


It's not about forcing forgiveness down op's throat. It is about encouraging him to bear in mind that forgiveness is an option so that he takes some time to make his decision rather than ending the marriage while the wound is still raw and he is not thinking straight.


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## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> I am trying to weigh the time we've had since then but I keep getting stuck in the details. I think about how exciting and passionate their affair had been. From what I keep reading, from the cheater's perspective, there was a lot of guilt but so much animalistic passion that the experience is something they've never been able to re-live. That thought just drives me bonkers.
> 
> I knew it was thrilling. I know it was exciting. Hell the other guy didn't even have to be that good. It was the environment, the right conditions, the deceit and secrecy of it was what made it hotter. She told me she came. I want to ask her how hard it was. At that point, I know I didn't go down on her and I remember this guy talking about how he didn't like sex as much as eating pu$$y. I want to ask her the details because it's driving me crazy but at the same time not sure if I want to hear what she says.
> 
> The logical part of me reminds me regardless of how hot the exchange was, it probably pales in comparison to how much guilt and sadness she's had to carry all these years. According to her, she went into a deep depression, where she was very self deprecating because the damage she believed it had done to her character. She swears that after that she never even considered doing that to me. To fight the guilt, she repressed the memories.
> 
> Get this $hit, she told me the other day, that she's not even sure if they had sex the last time around. Huh? How the hell are you going to not remember if you had sex or not. I asked did you take your clothes off and she says she remembers that but can't honestly remember the actual intercourse or the sexual exchange. I called BS on that but the more I thought, could it be possible that you can make yourself forget if you feel so bad? Who knows, I'm not a mind reader and the only way to know for sure would be to read her mind.
> 
> Cheaters, I have a question which I hope you can be honest about? Was the sex the best sex you had in your life? Was the experience made even hotter because of the condition of deceit and guilt? From what I've read on other boards and here, it was. It was so emotional like a high not felt before and hard to re-experience especially if you were doing it from a position of being hurt, guilt and pure sexual animalism. I mean the guy could of been hung like a peanut and still at the end gave her such pleasure which can't be re-created because the right concoction of emotions simply isn't present.
> 
> What kicks me in the nuts is the fact, this short compared to our relationship, experience has been so impactful on her. That douche bag, regardless of an omega, slob, schmuck he was left an imprint on her that she can't wash off. That makes me insignificant even though we've had the biggest life experiences together (eg marriage, houses, vacations, total intimacy, children).
> 
> I feel somewhere that I can't let a few hours of raw sexual pleasure replace the long and loving relationship we had. But then Mr. Ego comes back and he says, you fool don't be so stupid.
> 
> Dump that b1tch!


My wife appears to have genuinely erased certain things she is guilty about from her memory. I can believe your wife would be confused. I handle that by assuming the worst is true.


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## iheartlife

I'm certain that the pain of finding out about a past affair is not diminished by the passage of time. If you read through the threads, the anguish many times is far worse. That is because the cheater kept the secret so well for so long. So while the affair might have happened many years ago, the betrayal and the lying cuts very, very deep. It is experienced by the OP as immediate and recent. It certainly makes most people question their entire relationship. I completely agree with all of that.

Also, there is no such thing as "good" cheating or "better" cheating. People often compare various things, like emotional vs. physical, oral vs. vaginal, long term vs. short, ONS vs. multiple times, porn sex vs. not so great sex, etc. I really think there is no point to those comparisons unless physical contact is an absolute deal-breaker as it is for some. You can see this also by reading threads, where people have opposite factual situations and long for some other version of events. People think they would be happier if this or that had happened; I doubt that would be the case. What people really want is a loyal spouse who never cheated or lied.


Furthermore:
--Anyone who cheats must still show remorse, no matter when the cheating happened.

--Anyone who cheats has the burden of proof that they are not engaging in current cheating or other inappropriate, risky activity that might hurt the marriage.

--Anyone who cheats and lies about it has the burden of proof that they haven't lied about anything else, and that they aren't a liar in general.

--------------------

All that said, here are the things I don't see in OP's case:

--lack of remorse: she seems to be extremely remorseful and I don't see evidence she's faking

--any evidence that the confession was prompted by fear of discovery. Although prompted by alcohol and questions from the OP, the affair wasn't discovered by OP and she didn't confess due to fear of being outed--both of the latter are usually the case

--any attempt to maintain contact with her affair partner; when it ended, she went no contact--isn't that what we always say they should do?

--any evidence of a past affair with anyone else

--any evidence of an ongoing affair

--any evidence of inappropriate behavior in 15 years, i.e., GNOs, close opposite sex friendship, inappropriate coworker relationships, inappropriate communications via FB, texting, gaming, etc.


I've said in all my posts that only the OP knows what he can forgive. It's his life. His choices. Not mine, or anyone else's.

But really--all of the above difference between OP's situation and 90% of the threads on here--that counts for zero?

If that's true, then this forum really is finished. "Coping with infidelity" should just change its name to "Preparing for divorce due to infidelity"--and let's be done with it.


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## costa200

shecheatedVA, your last posts are all over the place. You need to get come clear vision of your future life. The kids should be your main concern. You need to make it work or end it. 

To just be in limbo undecided is probably the worst thing you can do. Don't allow this stage to prolong too much. You need to get yourself some counseling with a proper therapist and sort yourself out. If you are intended on R don't rug sweep, you need to face it and deal with it.


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## Duramax

shecheated before you dumb her because she may have enjoyed sex with someone other than you, what are you going to do when you hook up with someone with several ex boyfriends or husbands. 
And no, sex outside your regular relationship is not hotter.---unless its dull to begin with. if it would have been that hot she would have stayed with him. You werent married and neither of you owed the other anything. You could have easily met someone and dumped her. You were free to do that. you havent takena vow to foresake all others
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shecheatedVA

Sometimes in time of clarity, I'm like WTF man, you got a wonderful lady there. She's your best friend, a good wife, a great mother and someone you can share your life with. She was a dumb, immature, confused 22 year old college kid who was dealing with a boy with severe problems ranging from long term depression, uncontrollable rage at times, extreme OCD. I know I neglected her, was emotionally abusive and went totally inward while trying to deal with my own issues. Nothing that I'm personally proud of. To my credit, I have worked hard to fix those problems though being human have hit rough patches along the way. Through out it all she was there. She was there to comfort me, to love me, to help me. I was just too selfish, arrogant and self involved to see what a gift she was/is. I need to stop taking this for granted. Clearly by the posts and responses that I've seen here not all women are that. Perhaps I was just to egotistic and just assumed that anyone who would be with ME would be that way. 

I'm hurt. Really hurt. I need to clear my head and keep my eye on the prize. Funny thing is I'm already a winner and gotten my prize. I'm in serious jeopardy of losing that and need to keep my mind clear and focused on everything that she has been and how much she's completed and filled the void in my life. That by no means diminishes what she did and we still have a long hard road ahead to fix everything that was broken as has become further due to this. I just have to remember I'd be a fool to give up so easy on something/someone who means as much as she does.


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## Thor

shecheatedVA, use this as a lesson to stop doing what you are doing.

First off, no alcohol! Obviously you cannot handle it right now. You become destructive to yourself by harming your marriage.

Secondly, you both need to be in counseling individually and together.

Thirdly, you have the right to be angry. You have the right to feel like the marriage is built on a lie. But you need to realize that this is a process you will be going through, not a single event, with an outcome which is unknown yet. You might be able to rebuild together a good marriage. Or you might decide you cannot continue in this marriage. Either outcome is within your rights to decide. Either outcome is "reasonable". But it is too soon imho for you to make a decision.

I think your decision today should be to set in place a process which will get you and her to the best outcome possible.

Read the book "After the Affair" pronto. Get good exercise. Stop the alcohol. Get counseling scheduled asap. See your doc for some short term meds.

I am in a very similar situation as you, as I said earlier. Learning long after the fact that there were very large lies from early in the relationship. Lies which would have led me to not marry her. This is not a small thing for you to find out about. But I do believe you have a good chance of working things out. If you get on a productive path. It won't be easy but it can work.

You may decide in the future to divorce, but I hope not.


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## MattMatt

There's some good advice, some not-so-good advice and some spectacularly bad advice in this thread.

I hope shecheatedVA can work out which is which.:scratchhead:

ShecheatedVA, if you feel you want to forgive her and build something for the future with her, then do your best to achieve this.


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## See_Listen_Love

shecheatedVA said:


> I am trying to weigh the time we've had since then but I keep getting stuck in the details. I think about how exciting and passionate their affair had been. From what I keep reading, from the cheater's perspective, there was a lot of guilt but so much animalistic passion that the experience is something they've never been able to re-live. That thought just drives me bonkers.
> 
> I knew it was thrilling. I know it was exciting. Hell the other guy didn't even have to be that good. It was the environment, the right conditions, the deceit and secrecy of it was what made it hotter. She told me she came. I want to ask her how hard it was. At that point, I know I didn't go down on her and I remember this guy talking about how he didn't like sex as much as eating pu$$y. I want to ask her the details because it's driving me crazy but at the same time not sure if I want to hear what she says.
> 
> You have asked, you want more details, so you feel pain and will feel some more pain as you know more.
> 
> Take then the responsibility to get rid of these images if you want reconciliation.
> 
> 
> 
> What kicks me in the nuts is the fact, this short compared to our relationship, experience has been so impactful on her. That douche bag, regardless of an omega, slob, schmuck he was left an imprint on her that she can't wash off. That makes me insignificant even though we've had the biggest life experiences together (eg marriage, houses, vacations, total intimacy, children).
> 
> I feel somewhere that I can't let a few hours of raw sexual pleasure replace the long and loving relationship we had. But then Mr. Ego comes back and he says, you fool don't be so stupid.
> 
> True, it's your ego that's in your way.
> For what I see is that you should forgive her, process the whole thing in reconciliation.
> 
> THEN be the most significant person she ever met by not looking back anymore to the horror and just love her, forgive her, and let her be happy because of that.
> 
> THAT will be the most important beautiful thing that ever happened to her.
> 
> .....That will make you happy too.


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## jnj express

You just kind of went around the edges of your future---a couple of posts above this

What do you want for a future----your sub--conscious isn't gonna let this go---so you now live with visions and in misery----comes with the territory, and may stay with you till you die

You can give her the 2nd chance---and stay----but under what terms----are you gonna rage, then be somewhat normal---are you gonna climb her case, be short with her---then have good times----if so you will all be crazy in a matter of months

Do you wanna end it with her---and uproot everyone's lives

Mge ain't easy---life ain't simple, and now you got some heavy decision making to do----

Is this gonna be an elephant in the room that grows, eventually disrupts your sex life, gets thru to your kids---for they know, and they know fast---you may think you are hiding things from them---you ain't

Somewhere along the line you have to decide---either suck it up, and live in your own misery---drop her and you all will go forward in misery------or try and get thru this---problem is your sub--conscious will not really let you-----but everyone can throw suggestion after suggestion at you---in the end only you walk in your shoes.


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## theroad

MarriedTex said:


> This is not a justification for your wife, just hopefully some food for thought as you wrestle with this.
> 
> 
> And, I know you were living together. But, guess what? You had not yet taken the vows of "in sickness and in health." That was a deeper level of commitment that you made later in your relationship.


I call male bovine manure on this.

Whether going steady, living together, or married. The commitment to be faithful has been made.

Yes going steady, living together there is no commitment for life as in marriage. Though the commitment is made to be faithful as long as the relationship lasts.

That means you end the temporary relationship before one goes out and starts a new one.

No excuse for cheating because you are not married.


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## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> It's not about forcing forgiveness down op's throat. It is about encouraging him to bear in mind that forgiveness is an option so that he takes some time to make his decision rather than ending the marriage while the wound is still raw and he is not thinking straight.


Which emphasizes my point doesn't it? Give him time to process his emotions.


And one more thing that I've noticed here is that people equate forgiveness with acceptance. Let me tell you that it is possible to forgive and still go your separate ways. Forgiveness is not something you do for the person who wronged you. Its something you do for yourself, to accept that you've been wronged and to let it go so that you don't carry the bitterness wherever you go. That he forgave her shouldn't be a factor in determining the direction of his life.

He doesn't know if he can trust or believe what she says anymore. He doesn't know if she's remorseful or not. She seems to be. But there have been people who seem to be so many things they are not.

As you said reconciliation is just one of the paths that the OP can take. I'm also saying that if he cannot come to terms with it, divorce is yet another path. No one wants a divorce but sometimes its inevitable. It all depends on how he comes to terms with it and how remorseful she seems to be in the next few months.

I encourage you to get a polygraph rather than driving yourself crazy with obsessive thoughts. As I said earlier don't try to let things go before your gut tells you that it adds up. Because you might let things go for now but those doubts will always be there.


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## C-man

I realize that in an earlier post on this thread I mentioned "Herpes" and I was totally mixing up threads. That was totally wrong on my part, and I apologize completely. 


To the OP - sorry for your situation. I think doubts about trust are the worst feelings you can have about your spouse. On the positive side, your wife seems to be working on rebuilding trust - and telling you this terrible secret was her first step. If you really feel like you can never trust her again, then you have to move on. But I think you should let the emotion of this recent news (even though it is 15 years old - it is still fresh and raw for you - I know the feeling) die down a little before you make any decisions. 

You have 10 years of marriage and kids, and memories. Looking forward - can you forgive your wife and just look forward? If not, then you may have to move on. But let your emotions calm down a little bit before you make that decision. Don't do anything based upon your raw emotion that you may regret later.


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## iheartlife

BjornFree said:


> And one more thing that I've noticed here is that people equate forgiveness with acceptance. Let me tell you that it is possible to forgive and still go your separate ways. Forgiveness is not something you do for the person who wronged you. Its something you do for yourself, to accept that you've been wronged and to let it go so that you don't carry the bitterness wherever you go. That he forgave her shouldn't be a factor in determining the direction of his life.


I agree with this definition of forgiveness. Only someone like a perfect god is capable of forgiveness that washes the wrongdoer clean, or something. No human being is capable of that.

The best we can hope for is not to eternally punish OURSELVES because of some sin someone else inflicted on us.

Acceptance in this sense doesn't mean "that's okay." It means, yeah, that outrage really did happen. Now are _you_ going to wallow in misery forever because someone else was weak, selfish, or evil? Are you going to punish _yourself_ forever with anger or depression for a sin you did not commit?


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## Duramax

If i date someone a number of months, get mad and date someone else a few times, later resume my relationship and later marry the first one, have i cheated and do i have an obligation to disclose everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bricko

shecheatedVA said:


> I'm hurt. Really hurt. I need to clear my head and keep my eye on the prize. Funny thing is I'm already a winner and gotten my prize. I'm in serious jeopardy of losing that and need to keep my mind clear and focused on everything that she has been and how much she's completed and filled the void in my life. That by no means diminishes what she did and we still have a long hard road ahead to fix everything that was broken as has become further due to this. I just have to remember I'd be a fool to give up so easy on something/someone who means as much as she does.


SCVA, I had suggested earlier that you proceed with a polygraph or other means that help you get to the next stage where hopefully you can work on healing and keeping your family together. 

There are some stories where you really are rooting for the marriage to make it. Yours is one of those marriages. 

I think both IC counseling for yourself and MC for the both of you will help.

I am glad to read that despite the pain you are going through, you are 'trying to keep your eye on the prize".

I wish you peace and happiness.


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## carmen ohio

shecheatedVA said:


> Well we thought it would be good idea to get a babysitter and get some time to ourselves ... * Another bad idea - we decided to go get drinks at the bar* ... Not much real conversations and just *drinking* and eating food. *The drinks came one by one* and my anger and ego started to take over slowly but surely ... *After slushing down more than a few, we moved to another bar* and thats where the discussions started getting uglier ... I don't know why I said those things but the combination of the way I have been feeling *compounded by the alcohol* just made a side of me come out ...


Dear shecheatedVA,

Hopefully, you realize now that alcohol and strong negative emotions, especially anger, are a VERY BAD combination, sometimes even resulting in harm to one person and jail for the other.

According to a University of Georgia study, "If individuals tend to express their anger outwardly, alcohol will 'turn up the volume,' so that such a person will express anger more frequently and more intensely. A heightened response will most likely occur when the provocation against the drinker is a strong one, and will less likely occur when the individual is experiencing a low provocation and is sober." (Source: Alcohol and Aggression - Alcohol Facilitates Aggression Among Those Who Express Anger Outwardly)

Suggest you not drink around your W any more. Better yet, don't drink at all until you get this issue resolved -- you need all your mental faculties right now.

Best.


----------



## dogman

shecheatedVA said:


> I am trying to weigh the time we've had since then but I keep getting stuck in the details. I think about how exciting and passionate their affair had been. From what I keep reading, from the cheater's perspective, there was a lot of guilt but so much animalistic passion that the experience is something they've never been able to re-live. That thought just drives me bonkers.
> 
> I knew it was thrilling. I know it was exciting. Hell the other guy didn't even have to be that good. It was the environment, the right conditions, the deceit and secrecy of it was what made it hotter. She told me she came. I want to ask her how hard it was. At that point, I know I didn't go down on her and I remember this guy talking about how he didn't like sex as much as eating pu$$y. I want to ask her the details because it's driving me crazy but at the same time not sure if I want to hear what she says.
> 
> The logical part of me reminds me regardless of how hot the exchange was, it probably pales in comparison to how much guilt and sadness she's had to carry all these years. According to her, she went into a deep depression, where she was very self deprecating because the damage she believed it had done to her character. She swears that after that she never even considered doing that to me. To fight the guilt, she repressed the memories.
> 
> Get this $hit, she told me the other day, that she's not even sure if they had sex the last time around. Huh? How the hell are you going to not remember if you had sex or not. I asked did you take your clothes off and she says she remembers that but can't honestly remember the actual intercourse or the sexual exchange. I called BS on that but the more I thought, could it be possible that you can make yourself forget if you feel so bad? Who knows, I'm not a mind reader and the only way to know for sure would be to read her mind.
> 
> Cheaters, I have a question which I hope you can be honest about? Was the sex the best sex you had in your life? Was the experience made even hotter because of the condition of deceit and guilt? From what I've read on other boards and here, it was. It was so emotional like a high not felt before and hard to re-experience especially if you were doing it from a position of being hurt, guilt and pure sexual animalism. I mean the guy could of been hung like a peanut and still at the end gave her such pleasure which can't be re-created because the right concoction of emotions simply isn't present.
> 
> What kicks me in the nuts is the fact, this short compared to our relationship, experience has been so impactful on her. That douche bag, regardless of an omega, slob, schmuck he was left an imprint on her that she can't wash off. That makes me insignificant even though we've had the biggest life experiences together (eg marriage, houses, vacations, total intimacy, children).
> 
> I feel somewhere that I can't let a few hours of raw sexual pleasure replace the long and loving relationship we had. But then Mr. Ego comes back and he says, you fool don't be so stupid.
> 
> Dump that b1tch!


You really need to pull it together man.

Yes you should take her to task for this, should you end the relationship over it, no.

How we word things to ourselves is revealing and tends to become the truth in our minds.

After reading all of this, it's my opinion that it was just confusion and being in a bad place emotionally. If it was that hot she would have continued it. It would have happened more often and in strange places. This was lousy college cheating. Unfortunately it happens a lot in college. Boundaries are really bad in that atmosphere. 

Let me ask you this, or ask anyone who cares to think about it...have you ever had bad sex and gone back for more to see if it would get better? Have you ever regretted having sex with someone only to do it a second or a third time? 

I don't know about anyone else but I went to college and I have to answer yes to these questions. I DID NOT go back for more because it was hot. I did not go back because it was soooo passionate. I went back because I could and I was confused about who I was.

Reword this to yourself in a truthful way not the most brutal way possible. 

Your woman is torn up over this. She made many errors. She needs to feel bad for it but she needs you to forgive her based on the truth. You need to forgive her for the sake of the amazing life you've built for yourself.

I say this coming from an understanding of having to forgive. But more than that I say it coming from a place of needing forgiveness and failing to get it. 

Take your time but do it right.
Good luck


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Which emphasizes my point doesn't it? Give him time to process his emotions.
> 
> 
> And one more thing that I've noticed here is that people equate forgiveness with acceptance. Let me tell you that it is possible to forgive and still go your separate ways. Forgiveness is not something you do for the person who wronged you. Its something you do for yourself, to accept that you've been wronged and to let it go so that you don't carry the bitterness wherever you go. That he forgave her shouldn't be a factor in determining the direction of his life.
> 
> He doesn't know if he can trust or believe what she says anymore. He doesn't know if she's remorseful or not. She seems to be. But there have been people who seem to be so many things they are not.
> 
> As you said reconciliation is just one of the paths that the OP can take. I'm also saying that if he cannot come to terms with it, divorce is yet another path. No one wants a divorce but sometimes its inevitable. It all depends on how he comes to terms with it and how remorseful she seems to be in the next few months.
> 
> I encourage you to get a polygraph rather than driving yourself crazy with obsessive thoughts. As I said earlier don't try to let things go before your gut tells you that it adds up. Because you might let things go for now but those doubts will always be there.


I'm not much interested in getting caught up in semantic definitions of words. He can leave his wife or he can repair the marriage. When I use forgiveness that's what I mean.

And no, forgiveness doesn't mean you accept something, nor does it mean you forget. if he is like me he will NEVER forget what happened.

Nor am I especially interested in forcing SCVA down a particular path. He has to make his choice.

I'm basically sharing my experiences for him to consider. Sorry that you feel this is pushing anything down his throat.

By the way, I contend a polygraph is a really bad idea. Not reliable, it will not bring closure. Just my view, others may disagree.


----------



## Wazza

Hey SCVA...one thing I will suggest.

This is all very hard on you, but it is also hard on your wife. I suggest you make sure she is getting supported somewhere.

No doubt some will post and say "She's a cheater, stop worrying about her. She deserves this."

I'm not going to argue that point. You know your wife, you can decide whether she is hurting from all this, and you can decide whether her pain matters to you.


----------



## Duramax

if it were my daughter i was advising, id want her to tell them to go fly a kite on the polygraph and if her husband didnt like it, hit the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

Duramax said:


> if it were my daughter i was advising, id want her to tell them to go fly a kite on the polygraph and if her husband didnt like it, hit the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Refusing the polygraph is a massive bad sign that there is more hiding.


----------



## iheartlife

Duramax said:


> if it were my daughter i was advising, id want her to tell them to go fly a kite on the polygraph and if her husband didnt like it, hit the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why is that?


----------



## snap

Duramax said:


> If i date someone a number of months, get mad and date someone else a few times, later resume my relationship and later marry the first one, have i cheated and do i have an obligation to disclose everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


..is that a trick question?


----------



## snap

Duramax said:


> if it were my daughter i was advising, id want her to tell them to go fly a kite on the polygraph and if her husband didnt like it, hit the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amazing. So it's the husband who committed offense here, huh.

Well, at least your position on cheating is consistent.


----------



## shecheatedVA

So I've really been trying not to focus on the affair and work on the rebuilding and reconciliation. Whenever the mental movies begin I *try* to stop the thought and redirect on something else but my mind always wants to come back to it.

I don't think that much about the talking and making out. I remember him touting on how much of a pu$$y eating expert his was. That he took great pleasure and time in going down on women. Probably due to my own insecurities because we didn't do oral much back then, I can't stop seeing her laid on the bed, legs open and he's in between licking every bit of her. He's kissing the inside of her thigh and slowly working her clit. She's getting swollen and wetter with every lick. She's clutching the sheets, eyes closes, and experiencing intense pleasure. She's breathing deeply, her chest and face is flushed. With each lick, she gets wetter and wetter. I can hear his face and tongue splashing against her wet swollen lips. I picture her getting closer and closer and her moans getter deeper and longer. He knows exactly how to work his tongue to get her to have feelings never experienced. And then when the time is there, she explodes ..her legs are quickerving and body shaking. It's something that she'll never forget.

Now how f*cked up is that? It makes me sick to think about that crap but my mind becomes fixated. I get so upset, I immediately have to go chain smoke and my entire temperament shifts. I tell myself it couldn't have been *that* great but then again we never did that so if he knew how to work it, it would of been her first mind blowing, earthing shaking orgasm from oral. 

It also hurts knowing she doesn't or hasn't let me go down on her except for a handful of times that I can remember since then. She says it's the guilt of knowing she let him perform such an intimate act. I sometimes wonder if it's that either she's comparing me to him or that it reminds her of him and how good he was. She says she thought it was because she thought I didn't like to do that. In any case, I think it's really unfair and makes me feel like $hit.

WTF should I do or how did you guys get past these perverse distrubing mental movies?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> So I've really been trying not to focus on the affair and work on the rebuilding and reconciliation. Whenever the mental movies being I *try* to stop the thought and redirect on something else but my mind always wants to come back to it.
> 
> I don't think that much about the talking and making out. Probably due to my own insecurities because we didn't do oral much back then, I can't stop seeing her laid on the bed, legs open and he's in between licking every bit of her. She's clutching the sheets, eyes closes, and experiencing intense pleasure. She's breathing deeply, her chest and face is flushed. With each lick, she gets wetter and wetter. I can hear his face and tongue splashing against her wet swollen lips. I picture her getting closer and closer and her moans getter deeper and longer. He knows exactly how to work his tongue to get her to have feelings never experienced. And then when the time is there, she explodes ..her legs are quickerving and body shaking. It's something that she'll never forget.
> 
> Now how f*cked up is that? It makes me sick to think about that crap but my mind becomes fixated. I get so upset, I immediately have to go chain smoke and my entire temperament shifts. I tell myself it couldn't have been *that* great but then again we never did that so if he knew how to work it, it would of been her first mind blowing, earthing shaking orgasm from oral.
> 
> WTF should I do or how did you guys get past these perverse distrubing mental movies?


I can't relate, so I imagine that it's tough thinking about your wife getting pleasure from another man. But at the same time, you are making the assumption that she could only feel pleasure if she had a strong physical attraction to him. That isn't the case. Do you think you could have an orgasm if a strange woman you never met before and don't feel a strong bond with started giving you oral? You have nerve endings that are geared towards feeling stimulus and your body will react to the sensations.


----------



## Shaggy

So not only did she cheat, but except for a few times shes kept oral as sonething shed accept from him and get off on , but not you.

Wow. That's frankly nasty. What he had successfully had long full on intercourse too, would you have been living with out that too?


----------



## Shaggy

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I can't relate, so I imagine that it's tough thinking about your wife getting pleasure from another man. But at the same time, you are making the assumption that she could only feel pleasure if she had a strong physical attraction to him. That isn't the case. Do you think you could have an orgasm if a strange woman you never met before and don't feel a strong bond with started giving you oral? You have nerve endings that are geared towards feeling stimulus and your body will react to the sensations.


A big problem for him is that she accepted oral from the OM, but shes taken it off then table from him except if he really really pushes for it.


----------



## shecheatedVA

They has sex 3x (intercourse 2x and oral once). The oral was when they tried to have intercourse the second time and he couldn't get hard. He asked to do oral on her each time (guessing that was his talent and the fact he couldn't keep his d!ck hard). He would insist and second time she let him go down and came. The only time she orgasmed from the 3 experiences. He tried to go down on her the last time but she pushed him away. 

As *Plan 9* mentioned, she said it was due to the fact it was something we didn't do and was simply pressure on the right areas. She says it was that which caused her to really think and stop the affair. She had a WTF moment and knew she didn't feel anything emotional or physical for this guy. He was simply there as someone who served as a distraction from the problems we were having at home.

Your probably wondering why then did she do it again the 3rd time? Well me too. She said she had no intentions but when she went to break it off, he was begging and pleading. Telling her how great she was and how great they would be together. That he truly cherished the time they had spent and she deserved so much more. According to her, she got caught back up in the drama. The wanting to feel so needed and special and did it one last time. Question I keep asking was that really the last time. She said she knew how wrong it was was when she was away from here but would get caught back up when with him.

I've probably asked her 100 times and she insists it was only 3 times. I've mentioned the poly and said if she fails anything that I asked, I'm going to walk no questions asked. She insists vehemently it was only 3x. I've found a local poly guy and am going to setup an appt.


----------



## BjornFree

shecheatedVA said:


> As *Plan 9* mentioned, she said it was due to the fact it was something we didn't do and was simply pressure on the right areas. She says it was that which caused her to really think and stop the affair. She had a WTF moment and knew she didn't feel anything emotional or physical for this guy. He was simply there as someone who served as a distraction from the problems we were having at home.


My question is what if, what if she did have emotional and physical attraction to this guy? What would she have done?

You say that he was simply there to serve as a distraction from the problems you had. But I'm looking at it in a different angle, you were just someone she could fall back on if things fvcked up. She couldn't get what she wanted from him so in a sense she settled for you.

Don't get me wrong, the statements I made are not a reflection of who you are. All I'm saying is take a good hard look at what her cheating was> I'll venture to say that she probably has no respect for you or very little of it.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Shaggy said:


> So not only did she cheat, but except for a few times shes kept oral as sonething shed accept from him and get off on , but not you.
> 
> Wow. That's frankly nasty. What he had successfully had long full on intercourse too, would you have been living with out that too?


Did she take oral off the table because she felt it was a special connection with the OM that she never wanted to give up? Or was it due to the guilt she carried over the years because she cheated on the OP? Either way you are right in that the OP was cheated out of this part of sex. But if his sex life was by far an large very satisfying through all these years then I would not make the assumption that the wife avoided oral to be mean to the OP.


----------



## lovelygirl

shecheatedVA said:


> It also hurts knowing she doesn't or hasn't let me go down on her except for a handful of times that I can remember since then. *She says it's the guilt of knowing she let him perform such an intimate act. I sometimes wonder if it's that either she's comparing me to him or that it reminds her of him and how good he was.* She says she thought it was because she thought I didn't like to do that. In any case, I think it's really unfair and makes me feel like $hit.


No. She didn't let you go down on her because it felt like she was cheating on him. In that case, ironically, you were the "OM".
What they had was special and she wanted to keep that memory alive. In her mind... she knew she could never compare you to him.


----------



## lovelygirl

BjornFree said:


> You say that he was simply there to serve as a distraction from the problems you had. But I'm looking at it in a different angle, you were just someone she could fall back on if things fvcked up. She couldn't get what she wanted from him so in a sense she settled for you.
> .


This. 

You weren't a priority. You were just another option. The back up plan guy.


----------



## shecheatedVA

BjornFree said:


> My question is what if, what if she did have emotional and physical attraction to this guy? What would she have done?
> 
> You say that he was simply there to serve as a distraction from the problems you had. But I'm looking at it in a different angle, you were just someone she could fall back on if things fvcked up. She couldn't get what she wanted from him so in a sense she settled for you.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the statements I made are not a reflection of who you are. All I'm saying is take a good hard look at what her cheating was> I'll venture to say that she probably has no respect for you or very little of it.


Consistent on my research, a lot of women cheat because they are cowards and cannot end the relationship at home. I'm sure if she had a physical and emotional connection with him, she would have left me for him. She originally started the affair as talking. As I mentioned, she didn't find him physically attractive, but he was there to build her up. Over the course of time, she started to get emotional feelings and felt connected with him. She really fed off his words and how he made her feel so special like a princess. She said she almost felt obligated to give up she sex (but not dismissing her own role in being an active willing participant). 

I'm 100% sure she respects me. I'm pretty much in Alpha especially in my home. She looks to me to be the man. I'm the sole provider and ultimate decision maker in all matters of the family. If I decide that something shouldn't happen it doesn't. Not like a tyrant but just putting it out that I do have her respect. There's nothing that she's done in our relationship (obviously other than the cheating) that would indicate a lack of respect. Perhaps that was/is the problem. She's pretty passive and as far as the sex in the affair, according to her she let it happen.


----------



## iheartlife

lovelygirl said:


> No. She didn't let you go down on her because it felt like she was cheating on him. In that case, ironically, you were the "OM".
> What they had was special and she wanted to keep that memory alive. In her mind... she knew she could never compare you to him.


I disagree, absolutely, 100%. This guy sounds like a slimeball that she regrets ever having touched in the first place. None of the descriptions of the sex make it sound appealing at all. The guy had ED, which hardly made for an atmosphere of porn star sex with someone she really didn't know. I frankly fined it a strain when OP tries to describe it as so incredibly sexual. That isn't the vibe I get from these descriptions.

They only did it 3 times. I see zero evidence that she harbored something for him.

I agree that the issue of not having oral as much as you'd like is a big issue. This is something you can discuss in counseling. You can also request that it be discussed in sex therapy if need be.

I still don't see evidence that differs from the original line: that this man was disgusting, that she was not attracted to him personally--she was attracted to the validation; that he couldn't get it up; that he went down on her and mechanically made her come; and that she associates oral with this disgusting guy. I don't see her holding a candle for this man and I think it's irresponsible to suggest such a thing without any contrary evidence.


----------



## shecheatedVA

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Did she take oral off the table because she felt it was a special connection with the OM that she never wanted to give up? Or was it due to the guilt she carried over the years because she cheated on the OP? Either way you are right in that the OP was cheated out of this part of sex. But if his sex life was by far an large very satisfying through all these years then I would not make the assumption that the wife avoided oral to be mean to the OP.


She says it was because of the guilt and extreme shame that she felt. She felt that because she let a virtual stranger do such an intimate personal act. Could be she felt that connection with the other man, in reality, she felt as though she was cheating on him with me. Never thought about it like that!


----------



## iheartlife

lovelygirl said:


> This.
> 
> You weren't a priority. You were just another option. The back up plan guy.


Again, I strongly disagree. I will just cut and paste because my fingers do get tired.



iheartlife said:


> I agree, the backup plan doesn't make sense, in light of the fact they were not engaged, they were very young, etc. What I'd focus on is the fact that instead of picking an equal or better replacement person, she chose a man who even she had to realize wasn't a viable alternative to OP.
> 
> When two people have been married, it's quite common to "affair down," meaning, to choose a person who isn't as attractive, supportive, good a person, etc. as their current spouse. But that's largely due to availability--most people don't want to be involved with a married person, so people who enter into affairs can't be choosey. Plus, most people want to "cake-eat"--they're not looking for spouse #2.
> 
> But here, she had every single ability to be choosey, but she didn't. What that tells me is that she really wanted OP all along. She could have picked someone who would now be her husband, but she didn't. Not because OP was some sort of backup plan--it's because she really loved OP all along. Of course having sex with this man was a sh*tty way to show it. Extremely immature, the whole nine yards.
> 
> If she had shown any other evidence of being unfaithful at all--like, for example, if she'd kept in touch with OM--if she did inappropriate things like GNOs--if she friends and messages men on facebook--if she was a little too friendly with male coworkers--anything at all--well, then we could safely say that her affair just launched her career as someone who liked the idea of being married but wasn't up for a full commitment. But I don't see any evidence of that at all.
> 
> Instead, what I see is a woman who went down on her knees and gave a full streaming snot out of the nose apology. That hardly ever happens, if you read enough threads. I don't think that apology was insincere.
> 
> Lying for a long time about cheating is extremely damaging to trust in a relationship. That is a truism. Trickle-truth will take the tiny bit of trust that is left and snuff it out of existence. She is doing what thousands of other cheaters have done before, but that's not because she's an evil b*tch. It's because like all other cheaters, she thinks minimizing is a terrific idea. For someone who wants to reconcile, it's stupid as hell. But there's a big difference between calculating evil (seen with _cake-eaters_ wanting to keep a current affair) and stupid.
> 
> And as I've said several times, OP has to figure out what he can live with, and he has to make absolutely certain he has the truth (not the full truth so he can make better mind movies--the truth about the scope of the affair and whether she's been faithful since then). And OP has to determine whether she's a liar in general and whether she can be trusted in general. But if the truth is, she was selfish 20 years ago and stupid ever since, but not unfaithful, I know I would not divorce such a person who had given me many years of happiness.


----------



## shecheatedVA

lovelygirl said:


> No. She didn't let you go down on her because it felt like she was cheating on him. In that case, ironically, you were the "OM".
> What they had was special and she wanted to keep that memory alive. In her mind... she knew she could never compare you to him.


Wow reading that was like getting a shiv to the gut. Made my heart sink a little but I guess you could be right. That really sucks because it could be probable.


----------



## iheartlife

shecheatedVA said:


> She says it was because of the guilt and extreme shame that she felt. She felt that because she let a virtual stranger do such an intimate personal act. Could be she felt that connection with the other man, in reality, she felt as though she was cheating on him with me. Never thought about it like that!


I don't agree at all.

Several times I've been tempted to post this, but then I just let it go.

You keep wanting this to be porn star sex, with this physically disgusting man who had ED.

Others try to imply that she's holding a candle for this man who had nothing to offer but a few compliments back in the day.

There is zero, zero evidence she's stayed in touch with him.

You've said yourself you're convinced it was passionate--because of threads on TAM! Threads on TAM are not evidence that some physically and morally disgusting man was some secret love god who your wife worshipped. Why are you wilfully trying to make your facts fit this scenario when you have no other evidence to support it?


----------



## iheartlife

shecheatedVA said:


> Wow reading that was like getting a shiv to the gut. Made my heart sink a little but I guess you could be right. That really sucks because it could be probable.


For once, I strongly, strongly disagree with lovelygirl for all the reasons I've just posted.

You have zero evidence for this, she has zero evidence for this.

You are letting your mind run wild with rumination.

I HATE sexual stereotypes, but I will tell you OP, you sound like a girl. You sound like me (a girl) when I was in my 20's, struggling with depression, and unable to control my thoughts.

You jump on the first negative thought and idea of any kind and let it take you on a downward spiral.

You need to get into individual counseling, twice a week. You've told us you have a history of mental health issues. Go talk to someone in real life, do not let the posts of strangers pull you down deeper. You are far more vulnerable to this than the average poster. Get off the forum and go see an IC. NOW. Come back when you have some perspective on your own mental health situation.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> She says it was because of the guilt and extreme shame that she felt. She felt that because she let a virtual stranger do such an intimate personal act. Could be she felt that connection with the other man, in reality, she felt as though she was cheating on him with me. Never thought about it like that!


OP, you're all over the place and I think that is completely understandable. Please don't draw the conclusion from my post that I think she is reserving oral only for him out of loyalty. Chalk me up as being of the opinion she avoids oral because of the shame and guilt she feels with being with this OM. 

What I would recommend is to talk to your wife about your issues with oral specifically. Maybe you can try to tell her that "I know you feel guilt and shame over oral sex because you shared that with the OM. Moving forward, I want you to no longer think about the OM when you think about oral, but to think about how much pleasure I give you when I give you oral sex. I want to claim this intimate act to be ours from here on out." Maybe you can move her deeply with that and that you will be able to shut down these mental movies. Just a hunch on my part.


----------



## BjornFree

iheartlife said:


> You need to get into individual counseling, twice a week. You've told us you have a history of mental health issues. Go talk to someone in real life, do not let the posts of strangers pull you down deeper. You are far more vulnerable to this than the average poster. Get off the forum and go see an IC. NOW. Come back when you have some perspective on your own mental health situation.


I agree. This forum can be detrimental to your mental health.Especially since strangers like myself always assume the worst.

But keep one thing in mind. You have provided for your family and have been a dedicated father and husband. That is something to be proud of no matter what your wife did or where life may take you.

Good luck.


----------



## Jonesey

iheartlife said:


> I disagree, absolutely, 100%. This guy sounds like a slimeball that she regrets ever having touched in the first place. None of the descriptions of the sex make it sound appealing at all. The guy had *ED*,And you actually know this how? I mean i can't count the amount of times cheating wife´s claim´s the OM suffered from ED.And the disgusting part,what about it? They did it right, couldn't have been that ugly..
> 
> which hardly made for an atmosphere of porn star sex with *someone she really didn't know.* Irrelevant thinking.At that time she thought she knew him.That is what matters..
> 
> 
> I frankly fined it a strain when OP tries to describe it as so incredibly sexual. That isn't the vibe I get from these descriptions.
> 
> They only did it 3 times. I see zero evidence that she harbored something for him.
> 
> I agree that the issue of not having oral as much as you'd like is a big issue. This is something you can discuss in counseling. You can also request that it be discussed in sex therapy if need be.
> 
> I still don't see evidence that differs from the original line: that this man was disgusting, that she was not attracted to him personally--she was attracted to the validation; that he couldn't get it up; that he went down on her and mechanically made her come; and that she associates oral with this disgusting guy. I don't see her holding a candle for this man and I think it's irresponsible to suggest such a thing without any contrary evidence.


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA said:


> So I've really been trying not to focus on the affair and work on the rebuilding and reconciliation. Whenever the mental movies begin I *try* to stop the thought and redirect on something else but my mind always wants to come back to it.
> 
> I don't think that much about the talking and making out. I remember him touting on how much of a pu$$y eating expert his was. That he took great pleasure and time in going down on women. Probably due to my own insecurities because we didn't do oral much back then, I can't stop seeing her laid on the bed, legs open and he's in between licking every bit of her. He's kissing the inside of her thigh and slowly working her clit. She's getting swollen and wetter with every lick. She's clutching the sheets, eyes closes, and experiencing intense pleasure. She's breathing deeply, her chest and face is flushed. With each lick, she gets wetter and wetter. I can hear his face and tongue splashing against her wet swollen lips. I picture her getting closer and closer and her moans getter deeper and longer. He knows exactly how to work his tongue to get her to have feelings never experienced. And then when the time is there, she explodes ..her legs are quickerving and body shaking. It's something that she'll never forget.
> 
> Now how f*cked up is that? It makes me sick to think about that crap but my mind becomes fixated. I get so upset, I immediately have to go chain smoke and my entire temperament shifts. I tell myself it couldn't have been *that* great but then again we never did that so if he knew how to work it, it would of been her first mind blowing, earthing shaking orgasm from oral.
> 
> It also hurts knowing *she doesn't or hasn't let me go down on her except for a handful of times that I can remember since then. She says it's the guilt of knowing she let him perform such an intimate act. * I sometimes wonder if it's that either she's comparing me to him or that it reminds her of him and how good he was. She says she thought it was because she thought I didn't like to do that. In any case, I think it's really unfair and makes me feel like $hit.
> 
> WTF should I do or how did you guys get past these perverse distrubing mental movies?


That statement would bother me to no end.


----------



## Duramax

iheartlife said:


> Why is that?


Because a polygraph would do no good to assuage him. Him/her need professional help especially him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> She says it was because of the guilt and extreme shame that she felt. She felt that because she let a virtual stranger do such an intimate personal act. Could be she felt that connection with the other man, in reality, she felt as though she was cheating on him with me. Never thought about it like that!


I tend to think she felt shamed by the oral which is why she has not been interested in it with you. A good therapist, either MC or sex therapist, might be the place to work on this issue. My un-professional opinion is that you two can put oral sex back into your marriage as a happy fun activity for both of you. The key will be for her to not feel like she is doing it out of obligation or that you are doing it out of punishment. Again as a non-therapist my thought is that you should approach this in a positive non-accusatory way with her. You should tell her you don't want her to feel guilty about doing it with you or having felt the shame in the past. IOW she should not have toxic shame over now doing it with you.

Oral is just an activity like any other part of sex. Like kissing or intercourse or whatever. I think both of you are attaching a high level of meaning to the intimacy of the act of oral. Yet she also had intercourse with him, she touched him, she kissed him. And for your marriage she has been able to do those things with you without deep shame.

The first time you give her oral it is going to be weird for both of you. Just know that now. I think it is one of those hurdles you just have to get over before it will get better. I remember the first few times my wife and I had sex after the big confrontation. It was awkward but a necessary part of the process.


----------



## MarriedTex

shecheatedVA said:


> WTF should I do or how did you guys get past these perverse distrubing mental movies?


If it was as great for her as you're making it to be in your mind movies, she ultimately would not have picked you. She did betray you and did some "comparison shopping," but - at the end of the day - you're the guy who's been able to f**k her the past 15 years. Not ED guy. (Never heard of 20-something getting ED second time he's with a girl. Major sign of loser-dom there!)

At the end of the day, he was able to talk her out of her pants a couple of times when you were not married and you - by your own admission - were nowhere near your A game. 

This does not justify her actions, of course. But - if you're going to flush away this relationship because of these mind movies - you're not basing your decision on reality. The reality is the woman who's been at your side for the past 15 years. 

Embrace forgiveness. She was sad. Probably thought her relationship with you was crumbling. She found solace in another guy who turned out to be a worthless scumbag. It took her a little while, but she figured it out. Now, together you have a half a lifetime of shared experiences and a solid family. Who's the winner here? Who's the loser? 

If you decide to end the relationship, you're throwing away a lot based on bad assumptions you've built in your own mind. If you toss her away because of this, guess what, the scoreboard changes. You become the loser because you let this turd and his predatory ways get into your head. 

You are the winner. You are the winner. You are the winner. Don't mess that up. Demand remorse, of course. But find empathy for her and work your way to forgiveness. Not for her, but for yourself!


----------



## shecheatedVA

Wow. Again I have to say how helpful and encouraging some of your words have been. I don't want to think these thoughts and feel this way. I don't want to throw away a good marriage and wonderful kids and family over something that happened so long ago. I just never thought that I'd be with someone who cheated on me. If this was before we'd gotten married, I would of dropped her at the first curb and told her to get the f*ck out of my life. Seeing that we're so much deeper involved, it's not as easy to do which also causes a great amount of frustration. Sometimes I think she waited this long purposely knowing I was so deep with her. 

We are getting counseling. We're both in individual and couples counseling. This is the first time that I've gotten any help for not only the revelation of her cheating but also my childhood. I know that I suffer quite a bit of post traumatic stress disorder. I suffered an extreme tragedy early in my childhood followed by years of mental abuse by a bi-polar mother. When I got to college, I thought I could fake it to get over that $hit, but eventually it finally coming out like a repressed dam. That was the worst time in my life and also when she went to this other guy.

Some of you guys might be right. Possibly she's telling me the ED part to downplay the intensity of the sex. From what I remember of this guy, he was overweight and quite a heavy drinker. When they had sex, from what she describes, he had to go hard and fast and really concentrate to bust. That seems pretty consistent with someone who either suffered mental or physical ED since he just wanted it to finish before he lost Mr. Stiffy. It also highlights he's insistent pushes to just go down on her. Told her he just loved the way vaginas looked and could sit and stare at them for hours. Like I said the dude was an alcoholic big time and wanna be public intellect. He had absolutely no aspirations in life other than reading books and to be a poet. While the rest of us were in school, getting our life together, he lived in a dingy apartment and worked a dead end manual job. He did have the gift of jab which I saw through after meeting him a few times. 

I remember myself during those years. I was a horned up college kid who got a boner just dancing with a chick. I thought about sex all the time. Even know, just kissing my wife gets me ready to go. It's hard to believe this due at that young age had that issue. But from what my wife tells me he was much more interested in talking and wooing her with his intellect and IQ. 

At this point, I still want to try to work it out. There are times when we are *great* with each other. I'm talking having emotions that have been dormant since the first few months we were dating. It's weird cause shortly afterwards, I feel the extreme pain, and am reminded what she did to. I've read feeling this is actually a good sign. It means that I do really care for and she means something to me. They said the worst sign in men is when their spouses disclose such information and they're like bleh whatever. Those types of relationships will have the hardest times to be salvaged since the man has already checked out and his emotions towards his wife died long ago. 

I'll really need to talk to her about the whole oral thing. Realistically what else could it be other than guilt? For those that mentioned she wants to keep his memory alive, what purpose does that serve? Unless she's still banging him today or getting eaten out, she's only depriving herself of the pleasure? Even if I couldn't eat it as well, what does get from closing it off to only attempt to remember a guy and experience that she has beaten herself over and attempted to suppress each and every single day?


----------



## MarriedTex

If you can truly forgive her - and you can find a way forward together after counseling - my hunch is that her hang-ups on oral with you may become a thing of the past. 

Lots of psychology going on here!


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## Wazza

iheartlife said:


> I don't agree at all.
> 
> Several times I've been tempted to post this, but then I just let it go.
> 
> You keep wanting this to be porn star sex, with this physically disgusting man who had ED.
> 
> Others try to imply that she's holding a candle for this man who had nothing to offer but a few compliments back in the day.
> 
> There is zero, zero evidence she's stayed in touch with him.
> 
> You've said yourself you're convinced it was passionate--because of threads on TAM! Threads on TAM are not evidence that some physically and morally disgusting man was some secret love god who your wife worshipped. Why are you wilfully trying to make your facts fit this scenario when you have no other evidence to support it?


This. So much this.

It is bloody simple that had she peferred him she would have left you. Had she not wanted him but realised you wre not satisfying her sexually she would have looked for someone else.

She didn't. She married you, and by your own admission was a good wife. She came clean with you knowing your reaction may be bad, with no obvious reason to do so other than a desire to be honest.

Why would she marry plan B when she could have had plan A, or looked for plan C?

Lots of people here wanted to fill your head with worst case scenarios that are theoretically possible. Apply some common sense as to what is likely here.

If you can't take what she did leave her, but don't build up this nightmare fantasy that puts her in the same position as some serial cheater with no conscience. If you leave her the truth is that she is a wife who loves you very much, but did something wrong a long time ago that can never be undone.


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## shecheatedVA

So here's another problem that I've been feeling. Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now *HAVE* to go have sex with another woman. I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else. If not for revenge, just to feel it. It's been so long and I have an almost animalistic need to do it. I'm battling between it being right or wrong. I mean I've always wanted to do other woman (what guy doesn't) but my commitment to her always stopped me before I even decided to begin it in my head. I know it won't fix anything and will probably bring more heartache but will it really hurt if I don't tell her when/if happened?

Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


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## BjornFree

I think its quite a common desire among betrayed spouses, to get even. its your choice but if you're going to reconcile, don't do it. 

What's more surprising is that your wife doesn't object to it. Maybe she really doesn't care about the marriage or she's desperate. Its not cheating but you're just using your get out of jail for free card. Right now you have the tactical advantage where your relationship is concerned, you can shape it to how you want it to be. But in the end its your choice and no one can stop you.


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## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> I'll really need to talk to her about the whole oral thing. Realistically what else could it be other than guilt?


If we're going to just brainstorm possible contributors:

Sex abuse when she was a child. Or a sex assault in her teens. It can do unexpected things to a woman's sexuality. My wife can't kiss. Little pecks ok, but no deep kissing. It is residue from her abuse. But she can give me great oral sex. Illogical, huh? Any chance your wife was sexually abused or assaulted?

Some kind of toxic shame over her appearance. Does she have any feature that isn't normal, or a scar, or birth mark, etc? She may think you will find her imperfect or unattractive. She may think she is visually unappealing down there.

My best guess other than shame about OM: She thinks men think women smell/taste bad. My wife let me go down on her but she always seemed a bit tense and would stop me before long. Maybe some toxic shame about orgasm due to her sex abuse, but it was not a major factor. I had to tell her directly and not very gently (but lovingly) that I enjoy giving her oral. I enjoy the sensations, the textures, the taste, and her reactions. It took her several months to really relax, but she is now totally open  to receiving oral and she is able to experience multiple orgasms.


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## MarriedTex

shecheatedVA said:


> So here's another problem that I've been feeling. Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now *HAVE* to go have sex with another woman. I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else. If not for revenge, just to feel it. It's been so long and I have an almost animalistic need to do it. I'm battling between it being right or wrong. I mean I've always wanted to do other woman (what guy doesn't) but my commitment to her always stopped me before I even decided to begin it in my head. I know it won't fix anything and will probably bring more heartache but will it really hurt if I don't tell her when/if happened?
> 
> Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


I call BS on this. You don't "HAVE" to do anything. It's a choice. If you did this, it would be wrong. Love is not about evening up the score. Forgive her or not. Does not matter to me. But two wrongs do not make a right. 

If you want to go out and play the field, fine, you have a defensible excuse to end the relationship and move on. If you move forward with this line of thinking (on the "get mine" stuff), it will end badly.


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## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> So here's another problem that I've been feeling. Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now *HAVE* to go have sex with another woman. I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else.
> .
> .
> .
> Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


A struggle I have had and still do. Maybe even more so than ever right now. I was a virgin when I met my wife, she was not. So it is even more of a "getting on equal standing" with her kind of feeling for me.

Her not going ballistic over your revelation is to me actually a good sign. Very good. Unless she has checked out of the marriage, but I think you would recognize her behaviors as such. So she realizes how deeply you have been hurt by her actions, and she understands you have strong emotions about what the betrayal means to you. She is not approaching your current situation selfishly. If she were being selfish she would get angry that you were not thinking of her, or that you would be sexually interested in other women. Finally, she is able to engage in conversations where you reveal complicated and uneasy topics. Whatever she is feeling inside when you said you felt an urge to get even, she did not burst out with anger or some kind of ultimatum. 

I sincerely wish I could talk to my wife about those kinds of issues!

Your feelings, desires, and interests are not wrong. They just are. What would be wrong is acting on something destructive. We all at times wish someone would die, and it is not wrong or shameful to have that emotion. But it would be wrong to toss them off of the bridge! So your feelings that you want to level the playing field are not only normal _they are ok_.

It is safe to say that if you do act out by having sex with other women your marriage will not survive. No matter what she says, your wife ultimately will not approve. So go ahead and express your feelings to her but don't cheat!


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## Acabado

Allowing you to "get even" will relieve her guilt. It also will put you at the same footing from there. I will supose she can finnaly forget about it (rugsweeping after the so long delayed confession).

You both are trying the quick fix, band aid. It never works. The pain won't go away, the same mind movies will be there, the same "chump" factor will be at play, you will keep feeling entitled after that (very, very wrong path). You won't feel equal, you will resent her for it, you will regret believing it would because it will prevent you to demand remorse, dealing with it.
Calm down. There's no shortcuts. The only way is through.

You never sacrificed a thing, you didn't waste you 20's-30's. You traded off your selfish pursuits for a life time of dedication and commitment to your wife. You made a choice it happens worked: The family, the children the wife. It didn't change for the news. Your choice was not conditional in retrospective. Don't let it change you.


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## rrrbbbttt

Old saying " Two wrongs don't make a right"

Think of your commitment to your wife, ie you have never strayed as a solid 90 degree wall of granite it is very hard to take a chip out of that wall because it is solid and smooth and there are no defects that allow for a tool to chip away at it. Once you take a piece out of that wall it is easier to chip away pieces from that wall.

You make the choice to be with another woman while you are married you have taken a hunk of granite out of that wall. Where do you stop and is it easier the next time you want to do something outside of character.


Heck Eve told Adam to eat the Apple was he happier when he did it?


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## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> So here's another problem that I've been feeling. Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now *HAVE* to go have sex with another woman. I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else. If not for revenge, just to feel it. It's been so long and I have an almost animalistic need to do it. I'm battling between it being right or wrong. I mean I've always wanted to do other woman (what guy doesn't) but my commitment to her always stopped me before I even decided to begin it in my head. I know it won't fix anything and will probably bring more heartache but will it really hurt if I don't tell her when/if happened?
> 
> Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


Felt the same desire, had plenty of opportunity, came close once but didn't. This would have been a few years after her affair.

My wife and I talked about it recently. She asked me what had happened with that particular lady on that particular evening and I told her. She said she always assumed I had done it. She never said anything because she figured it was fair enough and now we were even.

We talked about how it had affected her, and it's very clear to me it wasn't positive. The transformation in her knowing that it didn't happen is significant.

Up to you what you do, but if you reconcile, not doing that is a great gift you can give her if you choose. And my experience is that giving her such a gift is good for the marriage and therefore good for you.

It's really what I said in my last post. Commit to the marriage and do the right thing by it, or walk away. Don't go into limbo of married but sexually open or married but holding back your emotions. It just doesn't work.


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## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> So here's another problem that I've been feeling. *Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now HAVE to go have sex with another woman.* I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. *Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else. If not for revenge, just to feel it. It's been so long and I have an almost animalistic need to do it. * I'm battling between it being right or wrong. I mean I've always wanted to do other woman (what guy doesn't) but my commitment to her always stopped me before I even decided to begin it in my head. I know it won't fix anything and will probably bring more heartache but will it really hurt if I don't tell her when/if happened?
> 
> Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


OP, did you have sex with any other woman than your wife in your past? Has your wife had sex with other men besides you and the OM in the past? This is all about keeping score, and IMHO you will not feel any better aside from now wallowing in the mud along with your wife. 

Do you really want to get your pound of flesh?
http://www.pappasontaxes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/*******.bmp


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## shecheatedVA

Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life. 

I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.

I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe. She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did. 

She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)


----------



## Chaparral

shecheatedVA said:


> They has sex 3x (intercourse 2x and oral once). The oral was when they tried to have intercourse the second time and he couldn't get hard. He asked to do oral on her each time (guessing that was his talent and the fact he couldn't keep his d!ck hard). He would insist and second time she let him go down and came. The only time she orgasmed from the 3 experiences. He tried to go down on her the last time but she pushed him away.
> 
> As *Plan 9* mentioned, she said it was due to the fact it was something we didn't do and was simply pressure on the right areas. She says it was that which caused her to really think and stop the affair. She had a WTF moment and knew she didn't feel anything emotional or physical for this guy. He was simply there as someone who served as a distraction from the problems we were having at home.
> 
> Your probably wondering why then did she do it again the 3rd time? Well me too. She said she had no intentions but when she went to break it off, he was begging and pleading. Telling her how great she was and how great they would be together. That he truly cherished the time they had spent and she deserved so much more. According to her, she got caught back up in the drama. The wanting to feel so needed and special and did it one last time. Question I keep asking was that really the last time. She said she knew how wrong it was was when she was away from here but would get caught back up when with him.
> 
> I've probably asked her 100 times and she insists it was only 3 times. I've mentioned the poly and said if she fails anything that I asked, I'm going to walk no questions asked. She insists vehemently it was only 3x. I've found a local poly guy and am going to setup an appt.


I think three is a realistic number. I didn't marry until my thirties. Two long term relationships in that time. Something I have always thought was odd is how many times I had sex with someone three times. Its like three was a number that I didn't go past except with two women. There were a few that went less than three but almost all were three times. Anyone else had this happen? I thought it was just me.


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## Duramax

at what point does it become a deal breaker? Sex with the other guy four times? Five? Six? you either forgive her for something that happened before you married or you dont. You will never know whether she enjoyed it, how may times, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life.
> 
> I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.
> 
> I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe. She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.
> 
> She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)


Would you have been able to predict how you would react? Sounds to me like a reasonable and truthful answer she's given


Not to distract from your situation in any way, but how is she doing? I expect she's had better weeks. Is she getting the support she needs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. *Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life. *
> 
> I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.
> 
> *I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe.* She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.
> 
> She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. *I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to*. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)


I'm just highlighting the parts where you desire to have the revenge affair. I think this is a natural reaction. Everyone instinctively craves justice and fairness. The problem is that if you go out to even the score, it would be a Pyrrhic victory. What cost would you be willing to bear in order to balance the scales? In your own words, your heart will always belong to her, so do you have the intestinal fortitude to make the person you love deeply feel the same pain that you are experiencing now? 

If your wife gave you a serious burn and deeply regret the fact that you were put through a lot of pain, would you insist on forcing her to put her hand into the fire so that she can feel the same pain that you went through and she can have the same scars that you have? If your answer is yes, then either you are not thinking straight or you are deep down a cold and vindictive person. I would never want to intentionally cause pain to anyone I love.


----------



## Acabado

> She got to enjoy some other man and an affair


Welcome to this nightmare. You are not special. That's why we are here, helping you. Because you were wronged. 

There's no way to get even, to reach balance to right the wrong. Renounce to justice or fairness. It's about remorse and forgiveness ... or not.


----------



## theroad

shecheatedVA said:


> So here's another problem that I've been feeling. Even if I get over her cheating and we're able to move past this, I now *HAVE* to go have sex with another woman. I feel as though I've given up my entire 20's/30's to be committed to her. I was completely faithful even though I had opportunities along the way to cheat on her. Knowing she did and had another man inside her just makes me want to go put myself in someone else. If not for revenge, just to feel it. It's been so long and I have an almost animalistic need to do it. I'm battling between it being right or wrong. I mean I've always wanted to do other woman (what guy doesn't) but my commitment to her always stopped me before I even decided to begin it in my head. I know it won't fix anything and will probably bring more heartache but will it really hurt if I don't tell her when/if happened?
> 
> Surprisingly I have shared this with my wife and therapist. Even more surprisingly she understands it and so many ways told me to go do it!? WTF. I by no means want to start a relationship with someone else but feel as though to truly make it equal and be able to move forward, I have go "get's mine" sort of speak.


Having a RA does not even anything but create more problems.


----------



## jameskimp

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life.
> 
> I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.
> 
> I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe. She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.
> 
> She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)


This is a very cynical way of looking at it but I think she wants you to have sex so you don't have the affair trump card anymore if you guys stay together.

Your mind movies will never go away and every time you guys have a huge argument, it will regress back to her having the affair. She cannot win. 

She wants to partly take that away. 

Another thing - I believe if you really loved her as much as you say you do, you could not hurt her by having an affair.

Stay and be faithful or leave and do whatever you want but don't mix and match.


----------



## warlock07

Or maybe point it out to her that you can have EAs and PAs now and tell her after 15 years.

And I think you are giving way too much importance to her orgasm... It is just a physical body reaction to stimulation..just like any guy would if he is cheating


----------



## Shaggy

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together.


This is actually what makes you the valuable special one in the marriage. You're the one with integrity, values , and commitment.

if you hooked up , you'd be just one of the cheaters.


----------



## huanito

Not to take the spot light but I have caught my wife sexting a very close friend / relative of mine. Although I had the chance to do some detective work but my anger and lack of patience got in the way. Now we are together and the relationship is much better but there is not a single day I dont think about the context of those messages and whether it was just an emotional affair gone too far or if there has been a physical affair. I know that she may never admit that it was anything more and I have completely lost trust for anyone. At the moment she is trying to do all she can to make me happy but the sad truth is as much as I hate to admit it this relationship is moving forward because we have two toddlers together. 

The betrayel I felt was so unexpected and bad that I feel even if i was to leave my wife that I would propably stay single and not fall in love because I simply can't trust anyone. I used to believe innocent until proven guilty but now everyone is just guilty. The person that is closest to you which you trust and go to for advice and is alwys by your side could be the very person having an affair with your wife and you would never know. It happened to me I considered him as a brother I was giving him advice, trusted my wife with him whenever she need something and I wasn't there. 

My only advice is to not compromise your integrity because of someone else's lack of respect for you and the sanctity of marriage and put all your effort into raising your kids in a happy home. I have not gotten over what happened to me but I still respect her as a mom and feel that I would be more inclined to leave her and take the kids if she was a bad mom than a bad wife. If what you have now is good don't ruin it (at least for the kids)


----------



## lovelygirl

iheartlife said:


> I disagree, absolutely, 100%. This guy sounds like a slimeball that *she regrets ever having touched in the first place.*


. How do you know how she really felt?




> They only did it 3 times. I see zero evidence that she harbored something for him.


Again, how do you it know it was just 3 times? 
That's because she says so? 

Since when a cheater who's been able to hide the affair for 15 years is all of a sudden reliable? 




> I don't see her holding a candle for this man and I think it's irresponsible to suggest such a thing without any contrary evidence.


Again, what evidence do you have that she had sex just 3 times? 


Nobody really knows what happened except for her and the affair partner. 

*********************************************
As for the revenge affair, if you repeat the same thing then what would be the difference between you and her? 
Exactly what Shaggy said. 

Also, I see her reaction trying to be fair and allow him to take revenge ...but still...one who loves you can't tolerate it. I know Iwouldn't, even if I was the cheater myself.
In her case, it doesn't mean she should go ballistic, but instead of putting up with it she could say something along the lines "Honey, I totally understand how you feel but I don't think this would be a better solution. It's best if I try to make it up to you and work towards a better marriage together. So, I ask for your forgiveness to give me a change to show you how much I love you instead of you choosing to waste the time with a revenge affair.."


----------



## Wazza

lovelygirl said:


> . How do you know how she really felt?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, how do you it know it was just 3 times?
> That's because she says so?
> 
> Since when a cheater who's been able to hide the affair for 15 years is all of a sudden reliable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, what evidence do you have that she had sex just 3 times?
> 
> 
> Nobody really knows what happened except for her and the affair partner.
> 
> *********************************************
> As for the revenge affair, if you repeat the same thing then what would be the difference between you and her?
> Exactly what Shaggy said.
> 
> Also, I see her reaction trying to be fair and allow him to take revenge ...but still...one who loves you can't tolerate it. I know Iwouldn't, even if I was the cheater myself.
> In her case, it doesn't mean she should go ballistic, but instead of putting up with it she could say something along the lines "Honey, I totally understand how you feel but I don't think this would be a better solution. It's best if I try to make it up to you and work towards a better marriage together. So, I ask for your forgiveness to give me a change to show you how much I love you instead of you choosing to waste the time with a revenge affair.."


You are a lawyer. Do you believe in the presumption of guilt?


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> You are a lawyer. Do you believe in the presumption of guilt?


What is there to presume? She is guilty by confession. I don't know how you dealt with your wife's affair. But asking him to rugsweep this issue or downplaying it just because its 15 years old won't help the OP. Always assume the worst, this is not a pessimistic view. Just a realistic view, especially in the face of infidelity.

What does the usual cheater's script involve? Downplaying the cheating is a key part of it right?

Having said that, OP have you considered a couple of trick questions that will lead her into a trap if she's lying? You know jumbling them up, asking the same questions differently and all that good stuff. Polygraph.


----------



## happyman64

> Another thing - I believe if you really loved her as much as you say you do, you could not hurt her by having an affair.


Here is the real truth from a number of posts and maybe MattMatt will corroborate what I speak of.

If you really love her as much as you say you do, all a revenge affair will really do is hurt you more and your marriage as well.

And it will set you back to zero in any progress you made.....

They are never worth it nor do they build up any self esteem.

In fact, they hurt everyone involved. You, your spouse and the unwitting 3rd party.

HM64


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> What is there to presume? She is guilty by confession. I don't know how you dealt with your wife's affair. But asking him to rugsweep this issue or downplaying it just because its 15 years old won't help the OP. Always assume the worst, this is not a pessimistic view. Just a realistic view, especially in the face of infidelity.
> 
> What does the usual cheater's script involve? Downplaying the cheating is a key part of it right?
> 
> Having said that, OP have you considered a couple of trick questions that will lead her into a trap if she's lying? You know jumbling them up, asking the same questions differently and all that good stuff. Polygraph.


Bjorn Free, think you missed my point.

LovelyGirl is a lawyer. SCVA's wife admitted to three sexual encounters. LovelyGirl is talking like there must have been more. With what evidence? Hell, what basis for even reasonable suspicion?

SCVA's wife is guilty of three encounters by her own admission. You'd think there was concrete evidence she went out and banged a different football team each month the way some people post here.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Don't put much emphasis on the actual number of encounters, his ED (I doubt that), he wasn't attractive, etc. These sound like trickle truth cookies to feed you to make you feel less upset so she can have an easier ride through this.

He was man enough for her to take her panties down, and she went back for more, they were able to have intercourse too, leave his ED alone. That's it.

But to go forward together, she must feel the need to reveal the whole truth. She needs to fell the urge to tell it even if you don't ask. She needs to be whole in front of you.

What matters now is, who your wife really is ? Despite of her past mistakes, do you see a woman who you can love, who values you, you can trust and down the road, you hopefully say that "it worth it" ?


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> You'd think there was concrete evidence she went out and banged a different football team each month the way some people post here.


Sadly, this is exactly what I'd think until she can prove to me that she didn't


----------



## SweetAndSour

OP,

By your words, your wife is;

Guilty of being married to her college boy friend. 

In my experience, college life is NOT monogamous AT ALL. And I'll say it is even healthy the way it is. It is a stage that most healthy people should go through. 

When some of us continue life with our college,high school sweetheart later, often there are some secrets to be revealed.

EDIT;

Wouldn't you let a blow job master girl to service you after she chased you some in college?


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Sadly, this is exactly what I'd think until she can prove to me that she didn't


You once said to me you had never experienced infidelity.

Where is your wife right now? If she is with you, where was she the last time you were apart for half a day?

Have you hidden VARS in her car? Do you ask her to take a polygraph every time she goes out? Had her panties tested for semen? All standard advice around here.

But your wife isn't like that? She would never cheat.....

Heard that before. That's what I guess SCVA thought for 15 years.

Tell me what make your marriage different to his. How can you possibly have a fulfilling marriage with the outlook you are advocating?


----------



## dogman

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life.
> 
> I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.
> 
> I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe. She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.
> 
> She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)



If you sleep with someone else you will be committing adultery. She did not do that. You were not married when she strayed.

You have the high ground for now. Keep it.
It bothers me to hear you say "she got to f#ck someone else" like it's a great gift she got and now I want the same gift.

Personally I think one of the reasons you are having a hard time with this is because of your view of sex. You may be watching to much porn. Many of your statements reflect this. Your mind movies reflect this. You have a very disrespectful view of sex towards women. Sorry, just saying it because it's evident.
To get past this you may need to work on your view of sex.

If I were her I'd want you to go out and "bang someone out" so youd have no right to say sh!t to me. And if you did give me sh!t, I could leave you and tell everyone that you cheated last week. Yeah I cheated when we were in college but he did it last week. Bam your the bad guy.


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> You once said to me you had never experienced infidelity.
> 
> Where is your wife right now? If she is with you, where was she the last time you were apart for half a day?
> 
> Have you hidden VARS in her car? Do you ask her to take a polygraph every time she goes out? Had her panties tested for semen? All standard advice around here.
> 
> But your wife isn't like that? She would never cheat.....
> 
> Heard that before. That's what I guess SCVA thought for 15 years.
> 
> Tell me what make your marriage different to his. How can you possibly have a fulfilling marriage with the outlook you are advocating?


The fact that I've been given no reason to not trust my wife, so in a sense she's guilty of not cheating because I presume that she is also guilty of telling the truth. Why should I hide VARs in her car when I don't find her indulging in anything suspicious. I'm not even worried about the fact that she may cheat or is cheating now. 

You ask me where my wife is?

I trust that she's at home

If she is with you, where was she the last time you were apart for half a day?

At home I think, I don't know honestly, she could be anywhere.

What if she is cheating?

I do not know. Whatever was meant to happen will happen. I cannot control her actions but I can control mine.

Is it possible for her to cheat?
Why not? Its possible for me to cheat. Its also possible that the world may end on dec 21st. 

Have i cheated?
No

Has she cheated?

Don't know.

Why am I not worried?
Why worry about things that could possibly happen when there are loads of things to worry about that are already happening?



> How can you possibly have a fulfilling marriage with the outlook you are advocating?


Its working so far. I'm having a good life. She tells me she is and I take her word for it. Could she be lying? Possibly. Am I worried that she may be lying? No,

Wazza, I don't know how life is going to be tomorrow. I don't know if I'll be alive or dead. All I know is right now its a good life. I didn't go into my marriage expecting anything. I don't claim to have a perfect marriage. We've had our fair share of tragedy and trauma but we've been able to work through the troubled times and enjoy the good times building great memories along the way and I'm thankful that she's been there every step of the way.

So will I regret it, if I were to discover somehow that she had an affair or is having one?

No

If you tell me that my life was a lie.

Well perhaps it was. But at least the lie was enjoyable while it lasted.


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> The fact that I've been given no reason to not trust my wife, so in a sense she's guilty of not cheating because I presume that she is also guilty of telling the truth. Why should I hide VARs in her car when I don't find her indulging in anything suspicious. I'm not even worried about the fact that she may cheat or is cheating now.
> 
> You ask me where my wife is?
> 
> I trust that she's at home
> 
> If she is with you, where was she the last time you were apart for half a day?
> 
> At home I think, I don't know honestly, she could be anywhere.
> 
> What if she is cheating?
> 
> I do not know. Whatever was meant to happen will happen. I cannot control her actions but I can control mine.
> 
> Is it possible for her to cheat?
> Why not? Its possible for me to cheat. Its also possible that the world may end on dec 21st.
> 
> Have i cheated?
> No
> 
> Has she cheated?
> 
> Don't know.
> 
> Why am I not worried?
> Why worry about things that could possibly happen when there are loads of things to worry about that are already happening?
> 
> 
> 
> Its working so far. I'm having a good life. She tells me she is and I take her word for it. Could she be lying? Possibly. Am I worried that she may be lying? No,
> 
> Wazza, I don't know how life is going to be tomorrow. I don't know if I'll be alive or dead. All I know is right now its a good life. I didn't go into my marriage expecting anything. I don't claim to have a perfect marriage. We've had our fair share of tragedy and trauma but we've been able to work through the troubled times and enjoy the good times building great memories along the way and I'm thankful that she's been there every step of the way.
> 
> So will I regret it, if I were to discover somehow that she had an affair or is having one?
> 
> No
> 
> If you tell me that my life was a lie.
> 
> Well perhaps it was. But at least the lie was enjoyable while it lasted.


Obviously I have no reason to believe your wife has cheated.

Equally I see no reason to assume that SCVA's wife has been more unfaithful than she admits. That was my point.

I disagree with many of your posts but this one seems to reflect how I think exactly.

Do you think everyone is capable of cheating given the wrong circumstances, or is it a defect some people have and others don't?


----------



## theroad

huanito said:


> Not to take the spot light but I have caught my wife sexting a very close friend / relative of mine. Although I had the chance to do some detective work but my anger and lack of patience got in the way. Now we are together and the relationship is much better but there is not a single day I dont think about the context of those messages and whether it was just an emotional affair gone too far or if there has been a physical affair. I know that she may never admit that it was anything more and I have completely lost trust for anyone. At the moment she is trying to do all she can to make me happy but the sad truth is as much as I hate to admit it this relationship is moving forward because we have two toddlers together.
> 
> The betrayel I felt was so unexpected and bad that I feel even if i was to leave my wife that I would propably stay single and not fall in love because I simply can't trust anyone. I used to believe innocent until proven guilty but now everyone is just guilty. The person that is closest to you which you trust and go to for advice and is alwys by your side could be the very person having an affair with your wife and you would never know. It happened to me I considered him as a brother I was giving him advice, trusted my wife with him whenever she need something and I wasn't there.
> 
> My only advice is to not compromise your integrity because of someone else's lack of respect for you and the sanctity of marriage and put all your effort into raising your kids in a happy home. I have not gotten over what happened to me but I still respect her as a mom and feel that I would be more inclined to leave her and take the kids if she was a bad mom than a bad wife. If what you have now is good don't ruin it (at least for the kids)


Time to DNA test your kids and tel the testing lab that the OM could of been a relative.


----------



## shecheatedVA

I agree with that having a RA will only set me back in so many different ways including carrying guilt myself and a breakdown of my own character. It just seems really unfair for her to be able to go do this and my only available action is just to try to work through this!? I don't know if I can stand for such injustice. 

Lonelygirl - You're right. There's no way of really knowing how many times it was and how long it really went on. That's what I'm struggling with every day. I just want to get the real truth regardless of how ugly it really is so I can make an objective decision based on the facts. I feel as though I went into this marriage without real honesty. It makes me feel as though it's all a sham since I wouldn't have married her had I known.

Dogman - Not sure how you can draw that I have a very dirty view of sex. I described the motions of what I think would go down if in a similar type of situation. Sure some of it is exaggerated because my mind wants to make it more explosive. It's a way of my own mind and ego attacking me. I'm not sure how you can draw the conclusion it's due to my vision of sex being ugly between a man and woman. *She cheated on me! There is no way that it can be UGLY. Am I suppose to imagine angels singing and babies playing harps in the background?* How is my view disrespectful? Is it because I use choice words like I need to *bang* them out? That was used because at the end of the day that's all I would be doing if it was just a RA. It wouldn't we romantic sweet lovemaking. Maybe it's sounding a little harsh cause I feel jaded by this experience. 

I see the common sentiment amongst most that a RA will not help with any of the issues that I'm dealing with currently but only add more. At the end of the day, I have to ask myself the question: *Given the facts, can I stay with this woman given the facts?*. The answer to that question as of now is I don't know but I have a gut feeling it is *NO*. As someone mentioned in an earlier posts, I'm one of those types of people that cannot have anything unjust happen to me. I have a hard time lettings things go especially one of this caliber. Given my personality and slightly elevates sense of self, I feel as though she can be replaced by the perfect woman. The perfect love. The perfect life. I have so many good qualities and characters that finding another suitable mate (who didn't do this to me) wouldn't be that difficult. 

So why am I staying? Is it for my kids? Is it because I don't want to give up 1/2 my money to her? Is it cause I'm scared? Is it cause I'm lazy? Is it because I truly love her? I'm not sure it's probably a combination of all of them. I don't want to be the cause of breaking up my family (I keep telling myself it isn't you but was her by doing this and not telling you when the time was right e.g before we got married, bought a house, decided to have kid1, kid2 or kid3). 

In all reality I don't think I'll be able to get past this. The decision needs to be made do I throw in the towel now and try to start recovery or let this drag on? I could try but I really think this feeling of pain, anger, guilt and especially deceit won't go away. Each time I look at her face, I'll be reminded of her deception.


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> Obviously I have no reason to believe your wife has cheated.
> 
> Equally I see no reason to assume that SCVA's wife has been more unfaithful than she admits. That was my point.


Oh Waz all the back and forth. I don't know about your line of reasoning but here is mine.

SCVA's wife admits that she was unfaithful 15 years ago. So she buried the truth. 
That makes her a liar however you see it.

Therefore she's proved that she is capable of lying. my previous assumption that she is telling the truth is thus quashed. 

As a consequence my assumption that she has not had Naffair(s), n being 1,2,3,4 is also false. N=1 at the moment. 

Therefore, by using inductive reasoning. I assume that she has had K such affairs, K being a natural number. I therefore seek to prove that she has had K+1 affairs.

If proved, the result is that she is a serial cheater. If not, my previous assumption that she had K affairs was wrong and thus the number stands at 1.

Wazza, i have tremendous respect for you and the fact that you chose to reconcile. I am sure that it wasn't easy. And I do not think myself capable of it. But let us call it a day with regards to our argument.

SCVA, I expressed my personal view on the subject. It need not be yours.


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> I disagree with many of your posts but this one seems to reflect how I think exactly.
> 
> Do you think everyone is capable of cheating given the wrong circumstances, or is it a defect some people have and others don't?


I think everyone is capable of cheating regardless of the circumstances.


----------



## theroad

22 pages. In the time it has taken to get to 22 pages why has this BH not scheduled a polygraph test. Set the date. Tell the WW when the date is.

Sit back. As the date gets close those WW holding back the truth will trickle some out claiming you now know all so cancel the test. That is her plan. To trickle truth you to stop the test from happening.

Don't cancel. Tell WW you need to confirm what she has just told you.

BH, you want the truth.

Well saying you want it is a whole lot different then taking action.

Take action. Today.


----------



## Wazza

BjornFree said:


> Oh Waz all the back and forth. I don't know about your line of reasoning but here is mine.
> 
> SCVA's wife admits that she was unfaithful 15 years ago. So she buried the truth.
> That makes her a liar however you see it.
> 
> Therefore she's proved that she is capable of lying. my previous assumption that she is telling the truth is thus quashed.
> 
> As a consequence my assumption that she has not had Naffair(s), n being 1,2,3,4 is also false. N=1 at the moment.
> 
> Therefore, by using inductive reasoning. I assume that she has had K such affairs, K being a natural number. I therefore seek to prove that she has had K+1 affairs.
> 
> If proved, the result is that she is a serial cheater. If not, my previous assumption that she had K affairs was wrong and thus the number stands at 1.
> 
> Wazza, i have tremendous respect for you and the fact that you chose to reconcile. I am sure that it wasn't easy. And I do not think myself capable of it. But let us call it a day with regards to our argument.
> 
> SCVA, I expressed my personal view on the subject. It need not be yours.


But it matters. It's at the heart of things.

I am not seeking a debate, I am exploring exactly what matters to SCVA if he is to reconcile.

Your logic holds if you have never lied. And if your wife has never lied to you. 

Conversely, SCVA's wife made a difficult admission of truth, no doubt knowing it was risky. To cheat proved her capable of infidelity. To admit proved her capable of integrity and remorse.

Do you see why I think it is important? Because SVCA has to make an overall judgement about a wife with demonstrated strengths as well as weaknesses. I believe I know, from experience, a lot of what is going through his head.

You could apply your "proof" to her good as well as bad. It would be equally valid.


----------



## BjornFree

Wazza said:


> .
> 
> Do you see why I think it is important? Because SVCA has to make an overall judgement about a wife with demonstrated strengths as well as weaknesses.


From his own admission he says that he struggles with wondering if his wife did have one affair or if she did have sex only 3 times. 
So why not schedule a polygraph and be done with it. 

Why is it that so many people are opposed to him digging or getting her to take a polygraph?

He needs to resolve this issue and he should know that it won't resolve itself. Therefore he has to take the appropriate measures.


----------



## lovelygirl

Wazza said:


> You are a lawyer. Do you believe in the presumption of guilt?


I understand your point.
My reply was to iHeartlife's post because she was too sure that the number was just 3. 
I know you say "why assume it was more than 3 until proven?"

She proved she is able to cheat and lie, thus she is not a reliable person. 
Given that she's not a reliable person and managed to hide it for that long, it's safe to question the revealed number of the times she had sex. 

The presumption of innocence would take perfect place if she wasn't discovered as a cheater yet. 

But at this point, anything that comes out of her mouth needs to be questioned.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

At this point if a polygraph will give him peace of mind then it should be done vs what she suggested him haveing a R Affair. 

After 15 years don't know the accuracy but she should be willing to do this to help him heal.

He just should be aware of the accuracy issues and should be given a primer on this.


----------



## Duramax

like i said if i were sv wife i tell him to go fly a kite on the polygraph and its your move buddy. Make it or shut up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Duramax said:


> like i said if i were sv wife i tell him to go fly a kite on the polygraph and its your move buddy. Make it or shut up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


God I wish my wife was so like this, it would have been easier to let her go...but no my cheating wife bends over backwards to make it right. 

My former cheating wife would go to a polygraph on a weeky basis if thats what it took to keep me around.


I regress, Duramax might be on to something...I think I'll start pushing for a polygrph test and maybe she will tell me to go fly a kite. Then me and my kite,my house and my kids will let her go and she can go fly here kite with her old boyfriends. But it would be my luck she agrees and even worse she passes.


----------



## theroad

lovelygirl said:


> I understand your point.
> My reply was to iHeartlife's post because she was too sure that the number was just 3.
> I know you say "why assume it was more than 3 until proven?"
> 
> She proved she is able to cheat and lie, thus she is not a reliable person.
> Given that she's not a reliable person and managed to hide it for that long, it's safe to question the revealed number of the times she had sex.
> 
> The presumption of innocence would take perfect place if she wasn't discovered as a cheater yet.
> 
> But at this point, anything that comes out of her mouth needs to be questioned.


The problem with WW's they trickle truth for so long it eventually is realize that the WW is doing damage control.

After years of damage control just because a WW is now claiming she has told all can not be believed. Who will coraborate that WW has revealed all?

Polygraph is the only thing. Unless she kept toxic friends in the loop on everything. Or WW kept pic's, vid's, emails, texts for BH to see now?


----------



## theroad

Duramax said:


> like i said if i were sv wife i tell him to go fly a kite on the polygraph and its your move buddy. Make it or shut up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you are saying that as his WW that lied and hide the truth for 15 years out of the blue you are now to be believed whatever you have to say about the affair?


----------



## Wazza

theroad said:


> The problem with WW's they trickle truth for so long it eventually is realize that the WW is doing damage control.
> 
> After years of damage control just because a WW is now claiming she has told all can not be believed. Who will coraborate that WW has revealed all?
> 
> Polygraph is the only thing. Unless she kept toxic friends in the loop on everything. Or WW kept pic's, vid's, emails, texts for BH to see now?


I get the desire for total certainty in truth. I just think it is not possible.

You have two options that I can see. You study the facts you have and reach the best conclusion you can. Or you put faith in a polygraph which is limited at best and highly inaccurate at worst.

It sucks for those of us who were cheated on that our spouses did this to us. It hurts like hell, it is not fair, and I for one will never totally get over it.

But I can't change the past, only the future.


----------



## iheartlife

lovelygirl said:


> I understand your point.
> My reply was to iHeartlife's post because she was too sure that the number was just 3.
> I know you say "why assume it was more than 3 until proven?"
> 
> She proved she is able to cheat and lie, thus she is not a reliable person.
> Given that she's not a reliable person and managed to hide it for that long, it's safe to question the revealed number of the times she had sex.
> 
> The presumption of innocence would take perfect place if she wasn't discovered as a cheater yet.
> 
> But at this point, anything that comes out of her mouth needs to be questioned.


Let's walk through this yet again.

You posted that OP was the backup plan. I carefully outlined why that wasn't the case. I notice that neither you, nor anyone else, has seriously tried to take that on and argue the contrary. That would be, I supposed, because young girlfriends in their 20's, presumably attractive, don't need a backup plan. OP, suffering from mental health issues and caught up in himself, doesn't really sound like anyone's backup plan. We can argue she should have showed compassion--_but the backup plan claim does NOT fit_.

Next--how is cheating generally revealed? Well, 7 or 8 times out of 10, it's discovered by the loyal spouse. Another 1 or 2 times out of ten, it's exposed by a third party. Maybe 1 out of 10 times, it's revealed as a confession by the cheater. Or maybe you think 1 out of 10 is high? Oh, I agree with that. For sure. So maybe 1 out of 100. That also shows this isn't following the cheater's script.

Then--did the cheater maintain contact with the affair partner? Was there an 'addictive' component that showed the cheater to choose the affair partner over the loyal partner, after getting an opportunity to choose? Your point is, apparently, we have no evidence either way. And my point has consistently been, verify the truth. Verify that it's limited the way she says it is. Verify that she isn't lying. Verify that she's been faithful through the marriage, that she isn't lying about anything else. But if it turns out that she went no contact--what, she gets no points for that at all? Well, there is a crowd who wants loyal spouses to divorce no matter what. I disagree with that position.

I have never once (and you will not catch me contradicting myself) suggested that OP should just believe what she's said. But I'm not going to call for her head on a pike, either, based on these facts. I'm just not.


----------



## Chaparral

shecheatedVA said:


> I agree with that having a RA will only set me back in so many different ways including carrying guilt myself and a breakdown of my own character. It just seems really unfair for her to be able to go do this and my only available action is just to try to work through this!? I don't know if I can stand for such injustice.
> 
> Lonelygirl - You're right. There's no way of really knowing how many times it was and how long it really went on. That's what I'm struggling with every day. I just want to get the real truth regardless of how ugly it really is so I can make an objective decision based on the facts. I feel as though I went into this marriage without real honesty. It makes me feel as though it's all a sham since I wouldn't have married her had I known.
> 
> Dogman - Not sure how you can draw that I have a very dirty view of sex. I described the motions of what I think would go down if in a similar type of situation. Sure some of it is exaggerated because my mind wants to make it more explosive. It's a way of my own mind and ego attacking me. I'm not sure how you can draw the conclusion it's due to my vision of sex being ugly between a man and woman. *She cheated on me! There is no way that it can be UGLY. Am I suppose to imagine angels singing and babies playing harps in the background?* How is my view disrespectful? Is it because I use choice words like I need to *bang* them out? That was used because at the end of the day that's all I would be doing if it was just a RA. It wouldn't we romantic sweet lovemaking. Maybe it's sounding a little harsh cause I feel jaded by this experience.
> 
> I see the common sentiment amongst most that a RA will not help with any of the issues that I'm dealing with currently but only add more. At the end of the day, I have to ask myself the question: *Given the facts, can I stay with this woman given the facts?*. The answer to that question as of now is I don't know but I have a gut feeling it is *NO*. As someone mentioned in an earlier posts, I'm one of those types of people that cannot have anything unjust happen to me. I have a hard time lettings things go especially one of this caliber. Given my personality and slightly elevates sense of self, I feel as though she can be replaced by the perfect woman. The perfect love. The perfect life. I have so many good qualities and characters that finding another suitable mate (who didn't do this to me) wouldn't be that difficult.
> 
> So why am I staying? Is it for my kids? Is it because I don't want to give up 1/2 my money to her? Is it cause I'm scared? Is it cause I'm lazy? Is it because I truly love her? I'm not sure it's probably a combination of all of them. I don't want to be the cause of breaking up my family (I keep telling myself it isn't you but was her by doing this and not telling you when the time was right e.g before we got married, bought a house, decided to have kid1, kid2 or kid3).
> 
> In all reality I don't think I'll be able to get past this. The decision needs to be made do I throw in the towel now and try to start recovery or let this drag on? I could try but I really think this feeling of pain, anger, guilt and especially deceit won't go away. Each time I look at her face, I'll be reminded of her deception.


You have kids together, married or divorced you will never be "rid" of her. If you later decide you made a mistake in divorcing (80% regret divorcing over infidelity) she will be there as a constant reminder as to the family you have lost. Every time there is trouble with your kids you will feel guilt because you will wonder if the behavior is because you left them. When you see your wifes new husband and your kids new stepfather you will be heartbroken. Your next doubts will be if he is a better father than you are. I don't remember if you had daughters, but one counselor I heard speak said the worst thing a father can do is let another, unrelated man live in the same house as his daughter.

Many here act as though divorce and finding a new wonderful mate is easy as pie. BS BS BS

Your wife has been faithful since you married her. 30-50 % of women cheat and it gets worse every year. 80% of infidelity is never detected by the bs. The odds you find a woman better than your wife are slim and none. Your new wife will be a stepmother, you won't know if she is good with your kids for quite a while AFTER you marry her. By the way you will be really lucky if you get to be with your kids half the time.

What advise have you gotten here that you have followed? Have you been to a marriage counselor and a marriage friendly Indivdual counselor. You are moving way to fast with little help. Many, many here have found better stronger marriages who went through much, much worse experiences than you have. You seem to be focused on what you feel as opposed to the long term goals you should be considering.
How's that working out for you?


----------



## bfree

People,

The OP has already posted stating he is seriously considering divorce. He is in obvious pain and distress. Maybe we can all start addressing him and his concerns for a while?

OP,

Some men cannot abide any form of betrayal. It may very well be the case that you are that type of man. This is not a knock on you at all. The is no fault here on your part so regardless of what you decide keep in mind that your wife caused this problem, not you.

That said, your emotions are still raw right now. You are still grieving the the death of your wife...the wife you thought you knew...your image of her. That does not mean you cannot come to grips with the new image of your wife. An image that is based in reality and not built upon your pedestalized version. I really think you need to take some time to let your emotions settle before you decide anything.


----------



## Duramax

the guy said:


> I
> 
> I regress, Duramax might be on to something...I think I'll start pushing for a polygrph test and maybe she will tell me to go fly a kite. Then me and my kite,my house and my kids will let her go and she can go fly here kite with her old boyfriends. But it would be my luck she agrees and even worse she passes.


I dont know your situation but what do you think would happen if you went before a judge divorcing your wife because she went out with another guy while you were dating 15 yrs ago while in college. Good luck gettig the house and kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shecheatedVA

I realize I'm moving way to fast on this. My emotions have been all over the place. One minute I'm ready to work towards making our marriage stronger and better and the next I'm ready to go see a lawyer and file. I just can't seem to get a grip of my emotions. Each time we're doing good, I'm reminded of her betrayal, and really mourn the death of the wife I thought I had. 

I have thought about my kids..*ALOT*. The thought of them being raised by another man is devastating. As you mentioned if I decide to divorce and the future my kids have any sort of problems, I'll always wonder if it could have been prevented if I had been married. 

I just can't understand why she would tell me this .. now? She says it was the guilt that was eating her up. Clearly she had gotten away with it, I had no idea and was hit like a bag of bricks when she confessed. She thought we couldn't be genuine and she could feel clean until she told me the truth. I REALLY wish she had just kept it to herself at this point in time. Ignorance is bliss as they say especially when this occurred so long ago. Now my mind is completely fixated trying to remember back and replaying all of their encounters. I read something interesting which touched a nerve. Someone posted in another forum, that the other guy I'm sure is living his life completely fine. My wife has been able to live, albeit with guilt and remorse but I'm the only one who is suffering each and every minute. *I'm allowing these people to take away my power. In order to get my power back, I have to stop giving them control.* That control is gained back by not fixating on what they did. Realize and comprehend what happened without allowing myself to suffer. The ego is a weird thing (at least for me). It senses when I'm feeling a tad bit better and immediately attacks me like a cancer. THen it continues to attack over and over again, until I feel completely mentally and physically destroyed. When I realize it's doing that, I attempt to take back control but it feels so comfortable in a totally masochistic way. 

My wife is mine. She was mine when she was my girlfriend. No one else was suppose to provide that emotional and physical comfort in the way she allowed the other man to do. I imagine how they must of been in total lust of each, how she must of been so excited waiting for him to call or to see him. Imagine how she must of felt the way when he first went inside her. Think about how hot she must have been when he went down on her or how hard he quickened and shook when she came. Then I'm like WTF! WTF! WTF man, get a f*cken hold of yourself. Who gives a sh!t how he made her come or feel. She came to you. Stop being such a beta male and pu$$y wallowing in your misery. Man up and be assertive and take control of the situation. 

I talked of RA but I've also thought about revenge beatdown. I keep asking for his last name and did some research (as I described earlier) in an attempt to find out who and where he might be. If I was/am able to find him, he's going to get the beating of his life. I mean the type of beating that he'll remember for a looong time. I want to watch him drop to the ground after my fist smashes his jaw. Only to tell him to get back up and pummel him down. I want him to remember that when you f*ck with someone else's lady, you get the beating of your lifetime. I told my wife about it and she literally freaked out. She could tell by the look in my eyes that I was dead serious and pleaded to stop. I have thought about it more and more and I keep thinking about my kids. I would hate for me to hurt him so bad that I end up getting into legal / criminal trouble over it. For their sake, I've currently stopped my quest in finding him. It is very comforting picturing him on the ground beaten to a blood pulp. That when he looked in his bruised and battered face, he'd alway remember my face and the punishment I served.

I like how *bfree* mentioned the pedestalized image I _had_ of my wife. I really thought she could do any wrong. I held her in such high regard. I mean I didn't put the pu$$y on the pedestal kind of way but gave her so much credit on how compassionate, loving and caring she has/was during my tough times. All those have been shattered. When the time was really hard, she cut and run. I do realize she was young and came from a relatively normal family. I on the other hand, learned about a lot of harsh realities of life and people early in life. The life that I brought to her was much harder and cut throat. She couldn't handle my version of life and eventually (her words) broke down. She just wanted to feel normal and light. That bastard happened to be able to give that to her (man I want beat that f*cker down so bad) when I was lost in my own personal hell. She said she always loved me. She keeps saying that over and over again. She said she wanted to leave me and this was her easy way out. When the time came to leave, she realized that she couldn't do it. According to her, she cut off all ties with the guy, the last time she had sex. He did call her at work and leave messages but she never replied. After a few weeks, he showed up at her work and she ended him driving him home. She swears nothing happened and she didn't even get out the car (make me wonder though). He called once more on her birthday to ask if she was still happy and that was it. 

I am getting therapy. I realize I need to deal with many issues from my past and also try to work on this marriage. We're also in couples counseling which has been helpful.


----------



## iheartlife

shecheatedVA said:


> *I am getting therapy.* I realize I need to deal with many issues from my past and also try to work on this marriage. We're also in couples counseling which has been helpful.


I am very, very glad to hear you're in individual counseling. I found it to be tremendous in terms of the help it gave me.

It is not your fault if you're susceptible to ruminating, but if you know you are, you need to learn how to short circuit those thoughts. The book Not Just Friends has some information on dealing with flashbacks. I'm sure there are others out there.

I also highly recommend studying mindfulness. Mindfulness is the practice of living in the now, because the past is over and the future cannot be predicted. It is now taught to soldiers suffering from combat PTSD. This is a good book on the subject, easy to find at your local library:

Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World: Mark Williams, Danny Penman, Jon Kabat-Zinn: 9781609618957: Amazon.com: Books

Mindfulness will help you deal with your emotions. You cannot stop your emotions from coming over you--they are emotions, after all. But you can learn to experience your emotions in a way that does not force you into action or compel you to make choices. You can learn to simply observe your emotions so that they don't control you.


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## shecheatedVA

Thanks *iheartlife*. Interesting thing is I had started to get into mediation about 6 months ago. I started to meditate every night before going to bed and felt I was making great progress. Was reading a lot about buddhism and eastern religions. Read about The Sedona Method and Eckhart Tole's Power of Now. I fully embrace the notion of the past is gone, the future isn't here the only place which is real is the now. I have attempted to apply the lessons but feel like a complete failure. 

It's similar to a fighter who fiercely trains and prepares for his big fight. He eats well, works out, trains and think he's ready for the big day. When the day arrives, he feels as though he's ready to go, and gets knocked out by the first punch in the fight. 

I realize with all things nothing is solved immediately. I have to stay vigilant and keep applying it over and over and over again. Eventually it'll work but Mr. Ego has a tight grip of me and seems to be crushing my soul.


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA said:


> Thanks *iheartlife*. Interesting thing is I had started to get into mediation about 6 months ago. I started to meditate every night before going to bed and felt I was making great progress. Was reading a lot about buddhism and eastern religions. Read about The Sedona Method and Eckhart Tole's Power of Now. I fully embrace the notion of the past is gone, the future isn't here the only place which is real is the now. I have attempted to apply the lessons but feel like a complete failure.
> 
> *It's similar to a fighter who fiercely trains and prepares for his big fight. He eats well, works out, trains and think he's ready for the big day. When the day arrives, he feels as though he's ready to go, and gets knocked out by the first punch in the fight. *
> I realize with all things nothing is solved immediately. I have to stay vigilant and keep applying it over and over and over again. Eventually it'll work but Mr. Ego has a tight grip of me and seems to be crushing my soul.


Using that same analogy one could also say that this fighter was courageous and purposeful because he stepped into that ring knowing that he could get his a$$ beat. All fighters know that is a possibility. The question is will this fighter continue to fight or will he retire with a loss on his record as the last time he stepped in the ring? Just remember that Mr. Ego seems all powerful right now but he's a one trick pony. He can be worn down over time and you have much more at your disposal that will allow you to crush him. You may lose a battle here and there but you will eventually win the war.

The decision to stay with your wife is yours and yours alone. Nobody can tell you what you can, should or will do. That in and of itself is power. Don't exercise that power until you know how and where to direct it. Continue to go to counseling, both IC and MC. If you do decide to stay with your wife remember this. Its much better for you to see her in the light of day than through rose colored glasses. She is a human being with all the faults and weaknesses that we all have. She has problems and issues just like you do. But seeing her for the person she really is rather than the person you wish she was is better for both of you in the long run and certainly better for your marriage.


----------



## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> I realize I'm moving way to fast on this. My emotions have been all over the place. One minute I'm ready to work towards making our marriage stronger and better and the next I'm ready to go see a lawyer and file. I just can't seem to get a grip of my emotions. Each time we're doing good, I'm reminded of her betrayal, and really mourn the death of the wife I thought I had.
> .
> blah blah blah
> .
> Someone posted in another forum, that the other guy I'm sure is living his life completely fine. My wife has been able to live, albeit with guilt and remorse but I'm the only one who is suffering each and every minute. *I'm allowing these people to take away my power. In order to get my power back, I have to stop giving them control.* That control is gained back by not fixating on what they did. Realize and comprehend what happened without allowing myself to suffer.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> I talked of RA but I've also thought about revenge beatdown. I keep asking for his last name and did some research (as I described earlier) in an attempt to find out who and where he might be. If I was/am able to find him, he's going to get the beating of his life. I mean the type of beating that he'll remember for a looong time. I want to watch him drop to the ground after my fist smashes his jaw.


The advice you got was good, to try to realize on an intellectual level and try to turn down the intensity of the emotions.

And let's talk about revenge. My wife was a grade schooler when she was abused. It lasted a couple of years. It was a young adult neighbor (and maybe his wife was involved?). He also engaged in some sick coercion. This guy _literally took my wife's life_ from her. He also damaged my life and my kids' lives.

If I knew who he was I would kill him. I know how, I have the tools, I have the training, I have the rage. I have fantasized about it.

This slime has most likely molested dozens of children, maybe more. Those children's lives and their families lives have been badly harmed. And some of those kids may have become abusers. So yes there would be a very large service to humanity for this guy to end up in a shallow grave out in the woods one night.

I could have his name and current address in a few days if I wanted.

But you know my life and my kids' futures are not worth giving away. This scum has taken far too much already for me to give more.

That's what you have to remember, college guy would get even more of you if you beat him. The law is not on your side even if moral justice is.

And now I'm going to pull out the 2x4 on you. Because I relate to your situation and because I have been through the same roller coaster you are on. Because I believe there is a very good chance, no guarantees, but a good chance you can work through this and have a good happy marriage at the other end. It won't be the same as it was last year before you found out, but it can be _good_.

So man the F up and get proactive instead of reactive. The world is cold and cruel, and your wife isn't as innocent as you believed. _There is no going back to the world and wife you thought existed_, so deal with what you have. D1ckhead college boy is not worthy of your fury. Which I think is really anger at yourself directed elsewhere as a diversion. Don't think we all haven't been there. "_IF ONLY_ I had done something differently". Well we were imperfect. Just like you were. 

Forgive yourself, it is ok. Love your wife and at the same time hate what she did. That is ok. Work with her through the R process, and trust the process will yield the outcome which will be most acceptable. Detach from outcome, commit to process. Time will give you clarity and confidence.


----------



## iheartlife

shecheatedVA said:


> Thanks *iheartlife*. Interesting thing is I had started to get into mediation about 6 months ago. I started to meditate every night before going to bed and felt I was making great progress. Was reading a lot about buddhism and eastern religions. Read about The Sedona Method and Eckhart Tole's Power of Now. I fully embrace the notion of the past is gone, the future isn't here the only place which is real is the now. I have attempted to apply the lessons but feel like a complete failure.
> 
> It's similar to a fighter who fiercely trains and prepares for his big fight. He eats well, works out, trains and think he's ready for the big day. When the day arrives, he feels as though he's ready to go, and gets knocked out by the first punch in the fight.
> 
> I realize with all things nothing is solved immediately. I have to stay vigilant and keep applying it over and over and over again. Eventually it'll work but Mr. Ego has a tight grip of me and seems to be crushing my soul.


I'm glad to hear you've found some mindfulness training beneficial. But a little bit isn't going to do it for you. It's a practice that you need to spend time on, at least every week, if not every day. And guess what? You got knocked down. Life does that to you. It's happened all your life.

But here's the thing--life knocks down EVERYONE. You aren't suffering more than I am, or the next person. We all have our personal demons, we all have bad things happen to us for no reason at all. People have free will, and throughout our lives they will affect us, whether we are married to them or not, whether their choices are evil or good.

The difference between you and the person next to you is whether you take the bad things that happen to you and add to the suffering by the way you approach your problems and emotions mentally. You vastly increase your own suffering by the way you take the bad in life.

So you are not "ready to go." This is, in and of itself, a test of how you are going to deal with it. This has, by the way, absolutely zero to do with your wife and whether she stays or goes. The mental anguish is going to be there all the same--you are going to have to face it no matter what the future holds.

If you don't mind mentions of Buddhism, I love the book in my signature, Turning the Mind into an Ally. The book Mindfulness breaks it down even further for people who are new to the concept, but I really liked that book, too.


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## Shaggy

IF you ever do locate him - do not physically assault him. 

However there a lots of nasty things you can do to him.

1. Sign him up for the nastiest worst gay porn mags you can.

2. Post his phone number and address on 4chan asking for ..... well you figure out what would be nasty.


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## The Cro-Magnon

Shaggy said:


> IF you ever do locate him - do not physically assault him.


Why not?

When my first serious GF cheated on me (another tale of itself) I knew she had planned to meet "him" at her flat while I was at Uni (intercepted sms's) so I suprised them both by showing up at her flat. At this point I was crushed and suicidal. Her other fellow got in my face, and they both tried to make out like I was in the wrong EVEN THOUGH I HAD JUST CAUGHT THEM RED HANDED, I ended up in a fight with him, and literally beat the living daylights out of him.

I told Jane to go F*** herself, turned my back as she was crying and helping tom up, and walked back to my car, with my pride, manhood, all instantly restored, it was like I was healed instantly. Didn't even look back. Felt normal again straight away. Take from that what you will.

I was expecting the Police to show up at my door later that night, but nothing ever came of it thankfully, he apparently took his beating and slunk off with his tail between his legs. SHE actually came back around to my Mother's house asking about me months later, and was sent packing, so their relationship clearly didn't work out, LOL.

My friend beat-up the OM his wife was cheating on him with also (along with the OM's friends too), and had to go to Trial at the County Court, which cost him alot of money in solicitor's fees, and the case dragged on for 2 years during which time he was stressed out worrying about jail, but even after all that grant doesn't regret what he did. (Conviction and fine was the sentence in the end) 

I live in Australia, don't know what the US legal system is like for this thing though...

If the betrayed husband were legally allowed to administer a savage beating to the OM, infidelity would suddenly become almost non existent I'd wager...

Of course it helps that I am an ugly 100kg lump of muscle with a granite skull, so it is easy for me to say and do all this I admit....


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## larry.gray

In my state giving a guy a bad beating will get you 8 1/3 years in prison.


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## Wazza

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Why not?
> 
> When my first serious GF cheated on me (another tale of itself) I knew she had planned to meet "him" at her flat while I was at Uni (intercepted sms's) so I suprised them both by showing up at her flat. At this point I was crushed and suicidal. Her other fellow got in my face, and they both tried to make out like I was in the wrong EVEN THOUGH I HAD JUST CAUGHT THEM RED HANDED, I ended up in a fight with him, and literally beat the living daylights out of him.
> 
> I told Jane to go F*** herself, turned my back as she was crying and helping tom up, and walked back to my car, with my pride, manhood, all instantly restored, it was like I was healed instantly. Didn't even look back. Felt normal again straight away. Take from that what you will.
> 
> I was expecting the Police to show up at my door later that night, but nothing ever came of it thankfully, he apparently took his beating and slunk off with his tail between his legs. SHE actually came back around to my Mother's house asking about me months later, and was sent packing, so their relationship clearly didn't work out, LOL.
> 
> My friend beat-up the OM his wife was cheating on him with also (along with the OM's friends too), and had to go to Trial at the County Court, which cost him alot of money in solicitor's fees, and the case dragged on for 2 years during which time he was stressed out worrying about jail, but even after all that grant doesn't regret what he did. (Conviction and fine was the sentence in the end)
> 
> I live in Australia, don't know what the US legal system is like for this thing though...
> 
> If the betrayed husband were legally allowed to administer a savage beating to the OM, infidelity would suddenly become almost non existent I'd wager...
> 
> Of course it helps that I am an ugly 100kg lump of muscle with a granite skull, so it is easy for me to say and do all this I admit....


Ask a poster called Juicer what it cost him to beat up the other man in the US. His business, his career, tens of thousands of dollars and a criminal record as I recall..

PM him before you do that.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Stay away from the physical attacks as others have said. If something should go wrong you could be put away for it.

Too many stories of a person hitting another person and he falls and hits his head and passes away. Then there is the charge of manslaughter. Unless you are the nephew of a mayor.

Get the punching bag for the garage and take our your aggression on that.


----------



## Duramax

do you realize how dumb it sounds to go after a guy fifteen years later. Do so and you may be looking at some serious jail time. What would add insult to injury if you got your butt beat in the process and sued for several hundred grand
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shecheatedVA

Duramax said:


> do you realize how dumb it sounds to go after a guy fifteen years later. Do so and you may be looking at some serious jail time. What would add insult to injury if you got your butt beat in the process and sued for several hundred grand
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It does sound pretty dumb but I just found out regardless of how long it's been. As far as getting my butt beat, I'd make sure I show up with an unfair advantage sort of speak. This isn't going to be a gentlemans way of dealing with a quarrel but more thug type of beat down. Me walking up with a pair of brass nuckles, fist clenched and throw the hardest punch possibly to his face. Unless he's made of steel, he would go down like tree cut in half. Also, unless this guy has become more athletic with the progression of time, I think I could of taken him down 15 years ago. He wasn't necessarily the I'm going to fight you type of guy. He was fat loser who was drunk the majority of time he was around. 

I really do hear you guys. It would be possibly detrimental to my safety and freedom. I do realize how one punch in the wrong way could mean me seeing the outside world for quite a while.

In all reality, I should be the most angry with my wife. Seeing that she's the woman I love and I wouldn't/couldn't beat her, he's my only outlet of agression....


----------



## bandit.45

Yep and while you're in jail your wife might decide you were an idiot for throwing away your life and livelihood and divorce you anyway. You woul end up with far less than you started with once you do get released.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

shecheatedVA said:


> It does sound pretty dumb but I just found out regardless of how long it's been. As far as getting my butt beat, I'd make sure I show up with an unfair advantage sort of speak. This isn't going to be a gentlemans way of dealing with a quarrel but more thug type of beat down. Me walking up with a pair of brass nuckles, fist clenched and throw the hardest punch possibly to his face. Unless he's made of steel, he would go down like tree cut in half. Also, unless this guy has become more athletic with the progression of time, I think I could of taken him down 15 years ago. He wasn't necessarily the I'm going to fight you type of guy. He was fat loser who was drunk the majority of time he was around.
> 
> I really do hear you guys. It would be possibly detrimental to my safety and freedom. I do realize how one punch in the wrong way could mean me seeing the outside world for quite a while.
> 
> In all reality, I should be the most angry with my wife. Seeing that she's the woman I love and I wouldn't/couldn't beat her, *he's my only outlet of agression*....


No, your outlet of agression is going to the gym, taking a long walk, hitting the heavy bag etc. Anything else is going to hurt you more than it will hurt anyone else.

If you go after this guy just think of this. He will heal in a fairly short amount of time. And then he will laugh at you while you sit in a very small and enclosed space. And 15 years later you will be the one that he has f*cked.


----------



## bfree

bandit.45 said:


> Yep and while you're in jail your wife might decide you were an idiot for throwing away your life and livelihood and divorce you anyway. You woul end up with far less than you started with once you do get released.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And his kids will be calling some other man "daddy."


----------



## Wazza

shecheatedVA said:


> It does sound pretty dumb but I just found out regardless of how long it's been. As far as getting my butt beat, I'd make sure I show up with an unfair advantage sort of speak. This isn't going to be a gentlemans way of dealing with a quarrel but more thug type of beat down. Me walking up with a pair of brass nuckles, fist clenched and throw the hardest punch possibly to his face. Unless he's made of steel, he would go down like tree cut in half. Also, unless this guy has become more athletic with the progression of time, I think I could of taken him down 15 years ago. He wasn't necessarily the I'm going to fight you type of guy. He was fat loser who was drunk the majority of time he was around.
> 
> I really do hear you guys. It would be possibly detrimental to my safety and freedom. I do realize how one punch in the wrong way could mean me seeing the outside world for quite a while.
> 
> In all reality, I should be the most angry with my wife. Seeing that she's the woman I love and I wouldn't/couldn't beat her, he's my only outlet of agression....


Dream about doing it. I can relate to that.

Just don't fulfil the fantasy. But make it a VERY good dream!

Seriously, some act of physical aggression against an inanimate object can feel really good about now. Splitting logs for the fireplace is one of my favourites.


----------



## Chaparral

You have her, you have the kids, you can be just as happy or more if you work at it. From the discription of the OM you have already had your revenge. Hard to believe he doesn't recall the one that got away, very often, and thinks of what might have been.


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## Thor

Do look at yourself and see if maybe your anger is being put on college boy when really you are angry at yourself for the way you were when she cheated.

Yes college boy deserves your anger and disgust. Yes your wife is 100% responsible for her cheating regardless of your actions at the time.

But I wonder if you aren't deflecting your internal anxieties towards an external target.


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## mel123

Duramax said:


> if you went before a judge divorcing your wife because she went out with another guy while you were dating 15 yrs ago while in college. Good luck gettig the house and kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## jameskimp

You are falsely making him the scapegoat.

Your wife is the one that had the commitment to you, not him. Beating him up would be a terribly foolish thing to do because you'd probably think of the all the guys your wife could be with from jail.


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## reconciled49

OK, ths will be my first post her, but I assure you, this is not my first rodeo. Wife walked away 10 years ago for OM. We reconciled 7 years ago so I have a little insight.
The memories and mind movies DO NOT go away. At least not yet, but they become less and less frequent. They become less and less emotionally charged and I become more and more capable of dealing with them. I DO in fact have high hopes that a few more years and they will be pretty much over.
As for beating him up...don't feel too bad about that. I still want to also. What I did most recently to deal with those feelings was to write him a rather long letter essentially telling him what a pile of crap he is. I did NOT send it. Simply writing it was very cathartic. You might give that a try.
I'm sincerely sorry that you are going through this, it sucks like a hoover. I tend to agree with a number of others on your thread who are of the opinion that you have a good chance of keeping your marriage. Mine was considerably more difficult as it was ongoing, long term and at times downright nasty. If we hadn't had kids, I probably wouldn't have even bothered. Was it a good idea? Most of the time I'd say yes. We've had a generally good marriage since. She hasn't stepped out again and continues to be reasonably transparent. She DID trickle truth me over the course of telling me what happened and we're at a point now where trying to get any more details is mostly futile (She had a small stroke 2 years ago which affected her memory). She has gone on to be a VERY devoted and loving wife. The sex is awesome, but it always was. I do occasionally get flashback during, and sadly, Mr. Winky becomes rather unco-operative at those times, but it never lasts long and usually within an hour or so he gets his nerve back and we're back in business.
Don't try to fool yourself, your relationship will never be the same. BUT, your old relationship contained a lie. That is gone now if she comes clean. That means, if you look at it as 2 distinct marriages, you can make the second one better and stronger and one without lies.
Just my 2 cents worth, from a guy who lived it.


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## reconciled49

Just to add a few other tips. Spend a little time on Chateau hHeartiste's site. Get an idea of how the of how predatory some guys can be. There are men out there who have made a study out of seducing married women. A useful bit from there, deals with the concept of Alpha and Beta males. Women are genetically programmed to find alpha behaviour attractive. If you want your W to chase you, the more alpha you can demonstrate the better. This includes decisiveness and self confidence along with issues such as being a strong wage earner, taking care of yourself and knowing what you want while GOING FOR IT!.

Also, check out "Taken by hand" They advocate a submission/dominance type relationship. Now they are more extreme than the form we have adopted. They get into spanking and what I would call light bondage. We may play a bit that way, but my W is not subject to hard and fast rules like they suggest nor would I ever consider infantalizing her by spanking her. There's just no respect in that. They do however, provide some insights into a return to some more traditional gender roles...like opening her door for her, helping her on with her coat, calling a buddy over to get the end of the couch instead of her. I often go to the bathroom and wash her back when she bathes, give her a nice massage with oils and all as part of foreplay.

Essentially divorce proof your marriage by BEING that man she would never consider stepping out on. Give her a man to be proud of. She'd just love to have all of her friends envy her. Do nice things for her just because you can. She'll reciprocate and it becomes a self perpetuating thing which takes on a life of it's own.

I realize you are having a problem with the lie and Trust me, I know how difficult that is, but surviving it IS possible and from what you have said so far, I'd trade for what I went through. The reason the lie bothers you is because it strikes at the core of trust within the relationship which results in you feeling less secure, less manly and less confident about the future. The best way to remedy that is to switch gears until you find that place where you can look at her and say "OK, go ahead and leave...good luck replacing me" 

In the aftermath of my W's relationship and our sep, we've had lots of time to discuss it. It went on long enough that I tried dating also(About 1 1/2 years in). We both agreed that the grass on the other side of the fence was NOT greener. At our age, the pool was filled with people who were either still single...for a damned good reason, or, divorced, for a damned good reason. In the end, we are both grateful. I am because she came home and she is because I was willing to start over. I'm weighing in solidly on the DO NOT THROW IT AWAY SIDE. It will take some effort, but I genuinely think your situation is worth it. Get the truth, deal with the truth, find forgiveness and get back to the otherwise great relationship you had. This didn't just happen years and years ago, it happened in college when you were both a whole lot less mature. Make it clear that's it's not cool or acceptable, but I don't see this girl going all serial on you.


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## reconciled49

Oh, I also forgot, Michelle Wiener-Davis' "Divorce Busting". Check the stats. Second marriages fail at a higher rate than firsts, very few affairs end in marriage and almost all of them fail. Statistically, you are best off fixing your first marriage. Check out the concept of stop going down cheeseless tunnels. The definition of insanity really IS doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. "If you don't like what you've got why don't you change it? If your world is all mixed up rearrange it". 

I hope some of these thoughts are helpful.


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## reconciled49

Geez, I just can't quit now. You should also research the female imperative. Through evolution, Mamogamy actually favours the male. It assures his DNA prevails. Women are preprogramed to favour alpha males over beta for procreation (Women are actually more likely to cheat on a beta male with an alpha male while they are ovulating) Sperm contains compounds that releases endorphines so affair sex is less likely to be protected sex. There are a lot of factors to understand, but as you become better educated, things come into better focus and ultimately, you can become a better man ( more confident, secure and self assured) if you take advantage of this opportunity. I'd sure as heck rather have found out that my wife faltered eons ago when we were dating than have had her leave me and have to sit back and watch it happen...that REALLY sucked. Please, keep perspective.


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## JCD

Despite what many posters state, there is a reason we invite everyone we know and spend THOUSANDS of dollars on a marriage.

It's because it marks a huge transition regarding what one owes the other. So cheating before marriage is different than cheating after as defined by our culture and our laws. (well, at least until recently)

It's new. It hurts. Vent and rage. But consider carefully what you are willing to lose as a result.

Stop asking questions if you can't handle the answers.

Get a bag and start pounding on it. 

Let her make it up to you.


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## reconciled49

To take it a step further, the entire industry that is "Girls Gone Wild" is based on the fact the the "Biological Imperative" can be exploited via manipulation. Women are weak and fallible just like men. A married man should not be tolerating his wife going out partying without him. That puts her at unnecessary risk. She needs to understand the risk as well, if the R matters, she just won't do it. Sounds to me in your case, your wife actually learned that. Of all the stories I have ever read, yours is the first where I would actually buy into the idea that it was still a lie to save your feelings and that she wouldn't ever do it again because she has beaten herself up for so many years. I expect she is greatly relieved to have told you. She had to feel that your R could handle it. Yes, you guys were drinking, that loosened her up finally and she took a chance. IDK...I'm now pressuring you but now your case is on my mind. Do some more reading and research, check out some of the references I gave you and give it some thought. I know what you're facing and really, big picture, it's not so bad. Especially if you really dig your wife.


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## Thor

reconciled49 said:


> Mamogamy


 Your mis-spelling had me picturing different possible meanings for that word.


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## shecheatedVA

*Thor* - You're right I think I'm very angry with who I use to be. My wife was always there and tried to help but I was just too far lost and deep in my own emotional issues. I just hit a point in my life where everything just caved (although on the outside everything looked fine - great college grades, good major, great outlook on career and money). I also have to remember and have stated, she didn't come from the type of life I had grown up with. She was a sweet, innocent, good girl who had a "normal" up bringing. She in no way was equipped to be my shrink which she had to play on numerous occasions. I also recall being very angry and violent (not towards her) and verbally abusive. I feel guilty and ashamed about it and have worked hard to correct my ways even before knowing about the affair and before we got married. According to her, I broke her. She was so beat down, so lonely, with very low self esteem that it didn't take much from the OM to sweep her up. He talked to her for hours, fed her compliments, listened to her problems and built her up. Then one thing led to another and bam...

*reconciled49* - Thank you for the book suggestions. I'm very aware of Alpha, Beta, Omega traits. I've done quite a bit of research in this area because it has always been a curiosity. I recently bought a book called The Married Man's Sex Primer which goes into that in detail. It also outlines specific steps on how to be an Alpha and Beta to keep a strong marriage. I highly recommend it. It has a ton of real life instructions on applying certain things to make your wife glued to you. I also have read a lot about PUA and Alpha behaviors. In my case when she cheated, I think I was too much of an Alpha. I thought about myself, didn't give her too much and believed she was easily replaceable. I also had Beta qualities by using her as my sounding board and being emotionally reliant on her. I think at the end of the day, she got tired of my **** and was looking for a way out. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into them!


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## shecheatedVA

Update: I did some extensive research and I found the [email protected] I feel pretty proud considering I only knew his first name and only part of his last name. I know exactly where he lives and was able to get some additional information. Now my mind is thinking about all the sh!t that I can do to him. In my haste, I told my wife and she flipped. She's so scared I'm going to do something drastic. She's sad she's the catalyst of this. I'm not saying I'm going to do something violent but I will have my revenge......


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## kenmoore14217

Even though I hope you don't do anything it would be kind of cool to make them think you will.


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## Thor

shecheatedVA said:


> *Thor* - You're right I think I'm very angry with who I use to be. My wife was always there and tried to help but I was just too far lost and deep in my own emotional issues. I just hit a point in my life where everything just caved (although on the outside everything looked fine - great college grades, good major, great outlook on career and money). I also have to remember and have stated, she didn't come from the type of life I had grown up with. She was a sweet, innocent, good girl who had a "normal" up bringing. She in no way was equipped to be my shrink which she had to play on numerous occasions. I also recall being very angry and violent (not towards her) and verbally abusive. I feel guilty and ashamed about it and have worked hard to correct my ways even before knowing about the affair and before we got married. According to her, I broke her. She was so beat down, so lonely, with very low self esteem that it didn't take much from the OM to sweep her up. He talked to her for hours, fed her compliments, listened to her problems and built her up. Then one thing led to another and bam...


OK, this is good stuff for you to accept as history which cannot be changed. Forgive yourself for not being perfect. College boy is a POS no question. He does deserve anger and revulsion. But I think you should look at the affair as something which happened A) between very young people, and B) without being your fault.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Had you been Mr. Wonderful she would not have had the affair with this guy. But you did not _cause_ her to have the affair. You contributed to the circumstances prior to her weak decision. The same can be said of every single BS, they were imperfect and contributed to a less than ideal relationship. But that is the end of your fault.

I sense you are blaming yourself for her affair. And I think perhaps you are not wanting to believe that she made the decision several times to have sex, so you blame yourself instead. Had you only not ABC, had you only XYZ instead, and she would not have "had to" have the affair.

You keep dwelling on how could she have done various acts with him. You dwell on what a loser he was at the time and how she could have gone to him. Which then might extend to you feeling very bad about yourself if somehow she saw him as more desirable than you.

And then you project your pain and self anger out onto POSOM.

I say hate his guts. Go ahead, it is healthy. I have and still do have very hard feelings about w's ex (and possible EA early in our relationship). I also recognize that I was quite screwed up at the time which contributed to the entire situation. But Ass Clown is still a douche worthy of being despised.

Forgive yourself for being screwed up. You did not consciously decide to be screwed up. She was defective and weak and young, and she made a terrible choice. These are two separate entities, you and her.


----------



## happyman64

SCVA

From a guy who got revenge to a guy who wants revenge?

Do not waste your time. Put all that effort into your marriage. 

All you will accomplish is creating more pain for both of you.

The best revenge is too live well and be happy with your spouse......


----------



## shecheatedVA

The great thing about it is..this guy is still a complete LOSER after all these years. I googled mapped where he lives in it's a complete dump. I can't find any "professional" information on him so I'm guessing he's still a wanna be intellect drunk. I did get great satisfaction knowing he didn't amount to sh!t whereas I'm fairly successful at life.

It does upset me she went to this loser as a replacement for me. That hurts a bit. I told the therapist it was a 2 sided sword. On one hand, he wasn't this great, successful, attractive man and on the other he was a fat, fake intellect, romantic POS. Which is worse? 

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the clues. I remember back then he had an infatuation for my wife, but I was like whatever, this loser turd has no chance. I didn't know here mental state and he just upped the game and got her to believe his bull$hit. 

I'm stil heavily considering divorce but part of that is I'm a stubborn POS. I keep saying think of the children but then again I'd also want a wife who was faithful, trustworthy and honest.


----------



## happyman64

shecheatedVA said:


> The great thing about it is..this guy is still a complete LOSER after all these years. I googled mapped where he lives in it's a complete dump. I can't find any "professional" information on him so I'm guessing he's still a wanna be intellect drunk. I did get great satisfaction knowing he didn't amount to sh!t whereas I'm fairly successful at life.
> 
> It does upset me she went to this loser as a replacement for me. That hurts a bit. I told the therapist it was a 2 sided sword. On one hand, he wasn't this great, successful, attractive man and on the other he was a fat, fake intellect, romantic POS. Which is worse?
> 
> I can't believe I didn't pick up on the clues. I remember back then he had an infatuation for my wife, but I was like whatever, this loser turd has no chance. I didn't know here mental state and he just upped the game and got her to believe his bull$hit.
> 
> I'm stil heavily considering divorce but part of that is I'm a stubborn POS. I keep saying think of the children but then again I'd also want a wife who was faithful, trustworthy and honest.


Stop the Divorce talk for now.

You need to calm down and stop working yourself over like this.

And that is funny because I could swear in this thread your wife (and I do mean as your wife) has been faithful, trustworthy and honest (except for her premarital infidelity).

And I urge you to take a look at yourself from 15 years ago up to today.

Because I truly do not think you have been a picnic to live with.

I am not picking on you.

Because my wife is an angel and I am not an easy person to live with at all.

So for your sake please stop beating yourself up. I think you have grown up a lot since those days.

And it sounds like your wife has too!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

shecheatedVA said:


> Yes we both had sex with other people *BEFORE* getting together. I was the only person to not have sex with anyone *AFTER* getting together. I'm not negating of denying anything that has been said. I actually agree with most of it. Thing is it doesn't change my wanting to bang someone out. I'm not saying that I have or will but feel the desire. I just feel such betrayal. She got to enjoy some other man and an affair, while at the time, I was dealing with some of the hardest times in my life.
> 
> I'll really need to think about this. When she first told me, I had immediately made a pack with myself, to go find the first person I could and sleep with them. I'm glad I didn't and decided that I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to make such a decision. I'm really going to think about it. The only difference I see now is that this could potentially impact my children and marriage.
> 
> I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe. She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.
> 
> She said I know what ever you do, I'll be waiting here for you. I'm not leaving or going anywhere until you serve me the papers. I asked even if I go out an f*ck someone? She said you're going to do what you have to. I can't tell you either way until we're at that point. She did also say that she knows whatever I do, I'll always come back to her.... I hate her saying that cause deep down I feel that. I know even if I had sex with 10 other women, my heart would always belong to her. Edit: Had to mention not saying I will but how I feel about her (at times)



I think you are abusive to her now. Please let her go, you don't deserve her.

You need to man up and get back to reality. The cold, lonely, dark reality outside of your marriage. Then you will regret you choices and you threw away all.

But I can see you will haunt her and yourself forever with this if you don't divorce.

So let her go.


----------



## Shaggy

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think you are abusive to her now. Please let her go, you don't deserve her.
> 
> You need to man up and get back to reality. The cold, lonely, dark reality outside of your marriage. Then you will regret you choices and you threw away all.
> 
> But I can see you will haunt her and yourself forever with this if you don't divorce.
> 
> So let her go.


Wow, that was not called for. He has not abused her in anyway. She is cheating without remorse.

Seriously did you read the thread?


----------



## Wazza

Shaggy said:


> Wow, that was not called for. He has not abused her in anyway. She is cheating without remorse.
> 
> Seriously did you read the thread?


Did you, if that is your summary?


----------



## rigcol

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think you are abusive to her now. Please let her go, you don't deserve her.
> 
> You need to man up and get back to reality. The cold, lonely, dark reality outside of your marriage. Then you will regret you choices and you threw away all.
> 
> But I can see you will haunt her and yourself forever with this if you don't divorce.
> 
> So let her go.


I agree with SLL...

SCVA:

Take your time and think about what you're doing. You've admitted she has given you 10 great years of marriage has been a great wife, and mother. She made a terrible mistake in college, 5 years prior to marriage, and at a time where you both were having issues. It doesn't excuse it but you were young and stuff happens...who the hell hasn't done something stupid in college?

Judging by some of your posts you want payback but be advised nothing good will come from intentionally hurting your wife. Continue with counseling and discuss your feelings, it's ok to be angry but you need to think about what you're doing. In the end you may end up the biggest loser...


----------



## dogman

She cheated but it was before they were married. Not just before they were married but YEARS before they were married.

He has a right to ask all the questions he wants because to him it's last week. But he has to be careful because he seems to be a little over the top with his reactions. He has NO FREE TICKET TO CHEAT AT ALL.

He also has to be careful not to ruin it with her by being too mean to her and driving her away. This is a weird one because it was so long ago and they were not close to marriage yet.


----------



## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> Did you, if that is your summary?


Cross thread?


----------



## Wazza

chapparal said:


> Cross thread?


Assume so.


----------



## larry.gray

dogman said:


> He has NO FREE TICKET TO CHEAT AT ALL.


Well, he sorta does.

I don't advise it... but he could. And to make it truly equal, he'd hid it for 15 years and then come clean.


----------



## Wazza

larry.gray said:


> Well, he sorta does.
> 
> I don't advise it... but he could. And to make it truly equal, he'd hid it for 15 years and then come clean.


When she did what she did they were not married. Even if I accepted your premise, and I don't, the situations are not the same.

The notion that another wrong can make things right is mistaken and dangerous.


----------



## MattMatt

shecheatedVA said:


> The great thing about it is..this guy is still a complete LOSER after all these years. I googled mapped where he lives in it's a complete dump. I can't find any "professional" information on him so I'm guessing he's still a wanna be intellect drunk. I did get great satisfaction knowing he didn't amount to sh!t whereas I'm fairly successful at life.
> 
> It does upset me she went to this loser as a replacement for me. That hurts a bit. I told the therapist it was a 2 sided sword. On one hand, he wasn't this great, successful, attractive man and on the other he was a fat, fake intellect, romantic POS. Which is worse?
> 
> I can't believe I didn't pick up on the clues. I remember back then he had an infatuation for my wife, but I was like whatever, this loser turd has no chance. I didn't know here mental state and he just upped the game and got her to believe his bull$hit.
> 
> I'm stil heavily considering divorce but part of that is I'm a stubborn POS. I keep saying think of the children but then again I'd also want a wife who was faithful, trustworthy and honest.


And one who would not put up with any abuse from you, huh? 

Before you fix your wife, or move on to wife number 2, you need to fix yourself.


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## See_Listen_Love

Shaggy said:


> Wow, that was not called for. He has not abused her in anyway. She is cheating without remorse.
> 
> Seriously did you read the thread?


When I read this



> *I told my wife, we'll see how understanding and forgiving you'll be when you have to wear the shoe.* She said she understood and really couldn't say which way or what she'd do. I called her a hypocrite for expecting me to be willing to work through this and reconcile when she clearly wouldn't be able to do so. In so many words, she said she'd have to think about it. A part of me really believes that she would be ok with this but she can't really say go do it and/or that she condones it. Like many of you already pointed out, it might be a way for her to relieve her own guilt for doing what she did.


I feel pity for her, yes she made a mistake, but he now is like a tyran seeking revenge and emotionally abusing this poor woman. It's 15 years ago and she is very sorry. There is no need for his cruelty and I really think he display's not being worth her love.


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## snap

See_Listen_Love said:


> I feel pity for her, yes she made a mistake, but he now is like a tyran seeking revenge and emotionally abusing this poor woman. It's 15 years ago and she is very sorry. There is no need for his cruelty and I really think he display's not being worth her love.


So she screwed around, denied everything for 15 years, confirmed only when pressed and he's now not worth her love, what


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## BjornFree

See_Listen_Love said:


> When I read this
> 
> 
> 
> I feel pity for her, yes she made a mistake, but he now is like a tyran seeking revenge and emotionally abusing this poor woman. It's 15 years ago and she is very sorry. There is no need for his cruelty and I really think he display's not being worth her love.


I don't suppose there's any point to mentioning that the betrayal still feels raw for the BS. She may have done it years ago but the betrayal feels like it occurred yesterday. Not all of us are jesus so lets just accept that rather than trying to act like him.


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## See_Listen_Love

Hmmm...I get the feeling that reacting to this only leads to the typical internet bullying...


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## snap

I have to point out nobody has attacked you personally here, and no judgement of character was passed like you just did on your opponents.


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## Shaggy

I is my interpretation that he was speaking to her explaining things so that she would begin to empathize with what he is feeling. She cheated and lied for 15 years about it.

Because she successfully lied for 15 years does not mean she gets a pass. He's deeply hurt, and she is not being sympathetic to his pain. 

i do not think he was actually having an RA, he was just trying to get through to her.


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## See_Listen_Love

I have read the begin again, and it is clear the usual anger is being displayed, understandable but too much if this is 15 years ago and the wife is being sad and remorsefull about it. 

Sometimes the reactions are just too hateful and unforgiving brutal.

Do not forget that whether you end up here as BS or WS is not alway a matter of character but sometimes a matter of coincedence.


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## See_Listen_Love

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is the road to perdition for everyone.


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## snap

Well I for once do not understand the logic that just because cheating happened years ago, the offender gets a free pass. If anything it's an aggravating circumstance, where BS was kept for a fool all these years, denied the crucial life choices by the web of lies.


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## Jasel

I have no idea why people seem to think cheating isn't as big of a deal as long as marriage isn't part of the equation. So if they had been together for 15 years had 3 kids and had never been married she could have cheated all throughout the relationship and it would have been okay??

Just sounds like a very warped view of relationships and marraige in general. Especially since marriage doesn't seem to be that much of a deterrent to keep people from cheating anyway.


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## See_Listen_Love

Snap and Jasel, you are thinking in terms of revenge, that only leads to people being in a bad place for themselves.

If you learn to forgive (and that is not about rug sweeping) you become a better person, in a good place.

One has to see this, one can't be convinced by arguments to get it. Sorry.


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## rrrbbbttt

See Listen Love, 

Just asking have you been in a relationship where your Significant Other cheated on you?


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## Jasel

Not quite sure where what I said that had anything to do with revenge


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## bfree

See_Listen_Love said:


> Snap and Jasel, you are thinking in terms of revenge, that only leads to people being in a bad place for themselves.
> 
> If you learn to forgive (and that is not about rug sweeping) you become a better person, in a good place.
> 
> One has to see this, one can't be convinced by arguments to get it. Sorry.


What exactly is the OP forgiving? Its 15 years ago. His wife doesn't remember much of the details and whatever he might have been able to discover has been lost to time. He was not given a chance to evaluate her with this information included. Had he known about this the last 15 years of his life may have been different. He was not given this choice. He feels that the last 15 years, however good or bad they've been, is a lie. You can't understand that?


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## theroad

bfree said:


> What exactly is the OP forgiving? Its 15 years ago. His wife doesn't remember much of the details and whatever he might have been able to discover has been lost to time. He was not given a chance to evaluate her with this information included. Had he known about this the last 15 years of his life may have been different. He was not given this choice. He feels that the last 15 years, however good or bad they've been, is a lie. You can't understand that?


Also some can not understand that what is ancient history to the WW is brand new to the BH as well as living a lie.


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## 3putt

theroad said:


> Also some can not understand that what is ancient history to the WW is brand new to the BH as well as living a lie.


Shouldn't be that difficult to understand, eh?


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## See_Listen_Love

Like I said, this is not something you can convince someone about by using arguments.

It's like explaining color to someone with only black and white in their absolute convictions box.

You should be aware that lot's of posters here are heavy on the cheaters in their opinions, understandable, but not always justified. This alone should make you understand what I said.

I have not been betrayed or betraying, so no I'n not speaking out of experience. But learning from these forums is quite a life changer in how I view EA and PA now, so that's where my views are formed. I can relate better now to people who are in these situations in real life, it clarifies al lot.

The forgiving thing is an essential element of Christian belief, If you don't buy that, you will live in darkness, because no one is black and white good or bad, we all need forgiving.


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## Wazza

There are two ways to look at the last 15 years.

One is that she forced him to live a lie. The other is that she spent the last 15 years carrying a guilty secret and trying to be the best wife she could.

I think both may be true.

For many of us who are betrayed, dealing with it includes dealing with the fact that our spouses were caught and tried to lie, and figuring out if we can trust them again. And in trying to work through that we try to talk about it and get trickle truthed. OP got a full, unbidden confession.

So it's easy to get that it is a brand new betrayal for OP and if he chooses to divorce over it that is his right, but it is also important for him to consider what he has. Does he see what he is giving up to throw away his marriage over this? Can he do that to his kids? Because that is the result some of his thoughts risk.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

Is he sure that they are his kids?

Get a paternity test.


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## bfree

I personally do not think the OP should divorce his wife. But telling him that he's had 15 good years and that he should just get over it is minimizing is pain. He has to work through this and she has to help him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

Sometimes we get folks seemingly trying to reach new heights in open-mindedness, especially people with no insight to suffering from infidelity. What immediately follows is well-meant but useless and unactionable advice along the lines of "can't we all just get along" or "just put it past you".


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## Wazza

snap said:


> Sometimes we get folks seemingly trying to reach new heights in open-mindedness, especially people with no insight to suffering from infidelity. What immediately follows is well-meant but useless and unactionable advice along the lines of "can't we all just get along" or "just put it past you".


Well, maybe......

If you are going to reconcile, "just put it past you", while incredibly hard, is what you have to do, as much as you can. It doesn't help you as a BS to dwell on the past. If you can't get over it, I think in the end you will end up either divorced or living alone in a shell of a marriage.

It is INCREDIBLY unfair what a WS does to a BS, but what is done is done.


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## bfree

Wazza said:


> Well, maybe......
> 
> If you are going to reconcile, "just put it past you", while incredibly hard, is what you have to do, as much as you can. It doesn't help you as a BS to dwell on the past. If you can't get over it, I think in the end you will end up either divorced or living alone in a shell of a marriage.
> 
> It is INCREDIBLY unfair what a WS does to a BS, but what is done is done.


There is a huge difference between healing and "just getting over it" though.


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## Wazza

bfree said:


> There is a huge difference between healing and "just getting over it" though.


Complex.

The words I quoted were "just put it past you". Just get over it suggests it's about internal processing, and I can't see how you could reconcile just from that.

There's a whole lot of talking, thinking and reevaluating goes into a reconciliation.


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## nuclearnightmare

OK. new to this forum, have only posted about 10 times so far, maybe less. not sure what the etiquette is on posting to an older thread but have seen people do it.

OP - having just read this entire I'm interested in how you're doing? MC? IC?


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## nuclearnightmare

...and now to make things a bit more interesting I observe the following:

-- the OP of this thread was one of the few BS here that displayed their anger (in the thread) to its FULL magnitude. 
-- My opinion....a number of posters just couldn't handle that anger, which led them to post harsh (sometimes ridiculous) judgements on him. VERY rare to see so many posts condemning the BS, and so many expressing support for the WS!

-- remember that even if you choose to set aside the OP's feelings of being cheated on (i.e. not married)......you're still left with wife-to-be lying to husband-to-be about a very important part of her background, part of her sexual history no less. No excuse for that, especially such a crucial part.

-- Obviously he's the best judge of the full context of their life together. His anger was completely understandable, including him considering divorce and verbal attacks on his wife. do some really believe that he needed to '...watch what he said to her' after such a revelation?? since when should a WS not expect "verbal" assaults from the BS??! what's so outrageous about that??

-- and one more thing very few people brought up is that he should NOT have assumed that she remained faithful to him during the rest of their time together. hopefully he was able to confront that question as well.


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## Acabado

nuclearnightmare
It's not about etiquette. Last time OP was in this thread was November. Last time he came to TAM (I asume just lurking) was February. Just click his name and go to his profile.

And the question to the others... they won't likely go and read an "almost zombie" thread just to give you answers (I won't, sorry).

Start you own thread, with your situation or with any other subject you want to discuss. It will likely get more answers than resurrecting this thread. IE Just now there's a fresh thread about "appropiate level of anger".

It's just a suggestion.


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## nuclearnightmare

Acabado:
OK thank you. makes sense


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## 6301

You better start using your brains here friend. You got this slob on your mind and wanting to find him and beat his a$$ with everything from a bat to brass knuckles. Fine. Go ahead and light him up and when your convicted of assault with intent, and your wearing a orange jumpsuit, you'll get a first class example of why they also call jail "The Pokey", especially when Big Bubba latches on to one of your orifices. I said this once before in another thread. He took what she offered him. Yes he was wrong for sleeping with a married woman but your fight isn't with him. It's with YOUR WIFE!! 

Now. Get those notions of going after him out of your head and deal with the issue have on your plate. Your wife cheated on you. He didn't pull a gun out on her, or a knife or make any threats on her family, he did some smooth talking and she fell for it. Remember that. SHE FELL FOR IT! So now who is to blame. What ever your choice may be and brother I feel for you, it's her you have to deal with. Get the polygraph done and if she passes the test then you can either repair the marriage of bail out if you can't handle it but don't do anything stupid that causes you anymore damage. Your worried about your kids. How are they going to feel with their Dad sitting in jail. They need their Dad in their lives ok?


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