# Rights of a spouse to know about past sexual abuse



## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey everyone,

I've made a few replies after "lurking" for about 6 months here on TAM. This is my first "new thread", so forgive me if I fumble around.

The short story is that after 23 years of marriage my wife finally confided in me that she was severely and repeatedly sexually abused and traumatized as a young girl. Even on our honeymoon I knew something was not quite right with her sexual responses. I was not a virgin and I KNEW what "typical" was in the broad sense of the term. She was not "typical".

Through the years of our marriage, I would repeatedly express my dismay at my sexual needs not being met. My requests were met more often than not with promises, which were very shortly thereafter broken, or anger, or accusations that I was a "sex maniac" (I'm not, I'm AM high drive, but not a maniac) or other accusations that were attempts to deflect or avoid discussing the REAL problem.

We are now one year plus past her reveling the abuse to me. This weekend we were talking, I told her that I absolutely positively had a right to know BEFORE marriage that she was abused. She became very upset and said I did NOT have a right to know. My logic is that anytime someone (in particular a potential mate) is making a life changing decision, they have the RIGHT to all potentially pertinent information.

At minimum, when I started expressing my sexual frustrations to her early on in the marriage, I had a right to that information then.

I feel very "right" in my right to know about the abuse.

She says "no", that I did not/do not have that right. 

I want to clarify that I do NOT need specific information about the abuse. Who did what and when etc., for most of that is lost anyway. I'm talking about the critical information that she was abused (severely) and that it is the primary reason for the difficulties in our marriage.

Thoughts???


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I've made a few replies after "lurking" for about 6 months here on TAM. This is my first "new thread", so forgive me if I fumble around.
> 
> ...


This is one line of thought. 

Married Man Sex Life: Skeletons In The Sexual History Closet

There will be others (it's early yet) but a lot of people accept AtholK's word as gospel, so you might as well make yourself aware of it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I also believe that the sexually abused person has an obligation to inform his/her future spouse of their past trauma. I say this because it does impact the marriage and without this information, the other spouse doesn't know how to deal with sexual issues that arise from that trauma.

A few months ago I was informed by a mutual friend of my ex-wife and mine that one of my ex-wife's relatives confided to her that my ex-wife had been repeatedly raped by a male cousin when she was a teenager. My ex-wife never told me about her trauma in all the time we were together. I truly believe that my ex-wife's secrecy of the sexual trauma came back to haunt her when she had her one year sexual affair with another man.

If people believe that their soon to be spouse has no right to know about something as serious as past sexual abuse, then the marriage is already starting off bad. Keeping secrets can and will poison a marriage.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Are you saying you wouldn't have married her if you knew?

My husbands ex suffered no abuse that we are aware of. No sex. No affairs. Simply,no sex.

I was abused. Lots of sex. No extramarital affairs. 

This is blaming the victim. You simply have no way of knowing what impact it has had without her saying what it might be, if any. But if it makes you happy to blame her affair or the lack of sex on abuse do it. Just realize all of the speculation in the world doesn't necessarily make it true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voyager (May 23, 2011)

I don't think you have a 'right' for that information. I do think, however, that your wife does have an obligation (as do you) to try and have a mutually satisfying sex life. And that includes dealing with any issues arising from the abuse. Does that mean full disclosure to you? I don't know. I think that would depend on the individuals.

Your post makes it sound like you're angry that she did not disclose the abuse early on. You seem to blame your unhappy sex life on the abuse rather than her inability to successfully deal with issues arising from it. That makes it sound like you would have (or currently do) considered her damaged goods. Why would she disclose such information if she thought it made her less valuable in your eyes? 

Seems to me the two of you would be better off working together to overcome the issues of the present day rather than argue about things in the past which you cannot change. She was abused. You didn't know. She's not to blame for the abuse. You're not to blame for not knowing. Now you know.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Affairs depend on *secrecy*, lies and deception. That is a fact which has nothing to do with 'blaming the victim'. 

You bet that if I found out that my then fiancee was keeping something so important from me, I would seriously question the wisdom of getting married to her. I make no apologies for that.

A marriage full of secrets is nothing more than a cesspool of secrecy.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I told my husband about light sexual abuse as a child. And not sure how anyone else deals with it, it caused me to be promiscuous in my teenage years, which I also disclosed to him.

Yet, when certain subjects come up, like we are still using the same bed I've had for years, he made the comment the other day that he has to use a bed that was used by half of "our town", or even county. Then he laughs and says "oh you know I'm just kidding". Hurts like h*ll. It's not like I don't regret that part of my past. 

So sometimes disclosure comes back to haunt you as well. And then also it affects certain aspects of sex life as well,
"triggers",, and he doesn't show understanding on that either. 

Maybe I just have an *ss for a H though..


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I was abused as a child/teen and while I told him of the abuse in a "skim over the top" type of way, it did come out eventually. I don't have any sexual hangups though, so it didn't bother him.

Sometimes people think they have moved past that time in their life and think they are ok. I thought I was ok, as I had therapy for those issues. However, residual nonsense did hurt us a BIT, but that has been worked out. I think it's more of a trust issue for me, not a sexual issue. I did not allow my abuse to effect my sexuality, but I didn't focus on not allowing it to effect my self-esteem and trust....which I am working on now.

Should she have told you? Sure. Did you ever ask or bring up the topic? Probably not. It's embarrassing, and sometimes people don't want to dive back into it, especially if they think they have moved forward.

It's tricky and I really don't think you can understand unless you've been there or something similar.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I told my husband about light sexual abuse as a child. And not sure how anyone else deals with it, it caused me to be promiscuous in my teenage years, which I also disclosed to him.
> 
> Yet, when certain subjects come up, like we are still using the same bed I've had for years, he made the comment the other day that he has to use a bed that was used by half of "our town", or even county. Then he laughs and says "oh you know I'm just kidding". Hurts like h*ll. It's not like I don't regret that part of my past.
> 
> ...


I suggest a new bed. My husband and I got a new mattress when he moved in...starting fresh.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I suggest a new bed. My husband and I got a new mattress when he moved in...starting fresh.


It is a new mattress............


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> It is a new mattress............


Then his joke is ridiculous. I'm sorry  It just shows his insecurities.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

morituri said:


> I also believe that the sexually abused person has an obligation to inform his/her future spouse of their past trauma. I say this because it does impact the marriage and without this information, the other spouse doesn't know how to deal with sexual issues that arise from that trauma.


I think it's disingenuous to suggest that simply because the other partner knows about past trauma, they can deal with all of the issues that may arise from it.

If you mean "provide the opportunity to walk away", then fine, but say so. If simply telling someone about a problem allowed the listener to solve it, there would be no incurable disease.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Then his joke is ridiculous. I'm sorry  It just shows his insecurities.


It was a *joke*? Best he doesn't give up his day job for a career in comedy, then.


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## jumble (Oct 9, 2011)

I often concern myself whether past abuse is the cause of my wifes anxiety at specific intimate moments.

I have a very vague recollection of her saying(way before we had any emotional connection) her father did "bad" stuff to her and her sister. At the time(my early-mid 20s) I wasn't willing or able to discuss the issue and she seemed happy to gloss over the topic and move on. This topic has never ever reared its head again. Even after 15 years of being otherwise emotionally and sexually happy.

No doubt this lingers in the back of my mind when she shows signs of being uncomfortable with discussing or taking part in sex. The problem is(after 15 years), do I suggest discussing her past and hope we can move forward with or without external help or should I let her accept that she thinks has gotten over her past and enjoy the fact that she enjoys sex because it satisfies me?


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Are you saying you wouldn't have married her if you knew?
> 
> *No, I'm saying simply that I had the right to this information. We probably would have had a much healthier marriage IF she had been honest. Whe problems cropped up, we could have gotten help--know what direction to go in. It would have saved YEARS of feelings of frustration/anger/resentment.*
> 
> ...


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Voyager said:


> I don't think you have a 'right' for that information. I do think, however, that your wife does have an obligation (as do you) to try and have a mutually satisfying sex life. And that includes dealing with any issues arising from the abuse. Does that mean full disclosure to you? I don't know. I think that would depend on the individuals.
> 
> *I don't need or want "full disclosure". In the first place, she can't even remember everything that was done to her (thank goodness!!!). But I do feel that when sexual problems were brought up in our marriage by me she should have disclosed that this MIGHT be a source of MOST of our sexual problems (turns out it IS--this is what our MC says, not me!!!)
> 
> ...


*We began dealing with it in year 23 of our marriage. My wife's pattern of avoidance however is pretty well set now--but she has made some progress. My point is that this knowledge early on would have been so much better. We could have dealt with this abuse in a healthy and productive way and been in a much better place now. A lot less anger, resentment and frustration. 

It's the old saying (in the Bible I beleive!!!). The truth would have set us free. Not that it would have dimished what was done to her, but we could have dealt with it in a healthy way instead of not dealing with it and that lack of knowledge being so caustic to our marriage.*


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I told my husband about light sexual abuse as a child. And not sure how anyone else deals with it, it caused me to be promiscuous in my teenage years, which I also disclosed to him.
> 
> Yet, when certain subjects come up, like we are still using the same bed I've had for years, he made the comment the other day that he has to use a bed that was used by half of "our town", or even county. Then he laughs and says "oh you know I'm just kidding". Hurts like h*ll. It's not like I don't regret that part of my past.
> 
> ...


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I was abused as a child/teen and while I told him of the abuse in a "skim over the top" type of way, it did come out eventually. I don't have any sexual hangups though, so it didn't bother him.
> 
> Sometimes people think they have moved past that time in their life and think they are ok. I thought I was ok, as I had therapy for those issues. However, residual nonsense did hurt us a BIT, but that has been worked out. I think it's more of a trust issue for me, not a sexual issue. I did not allow my abuse to effect my sexuality, but I didn't focus on not allowing it to effect my self-esteem and trust....which I am working on now.
> 
> ...


*You know, my wife says the same thing, and I agree with her (and you). I will NEVER understand. But when you marry, I still feel you have an obligation to disclose IN PARTICULAR if it is affecting your marriage. It most certainly did ours--and still is. Not just our sex life. Trust, honesty...I could go on and on.*


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> *We began dealing with it in year 23 of our marriage. My wife's pattern of avoidance however is pretty well set now--but she has made some progress. My point is that this knowledge early on would have been so much better. We could have dealt with this abuse in a healthy and productive way and been in a much better place now. A lot less anger, resentment and frustration.
> 
> It's the old saying (in the Bible I beleive!!!). The truth would have set us free. Not that it would have dimished what was done to her, but we could have dealt with it in a healthy way instead of not dealing with it and that lack of knowledge being so caustic to our marriage.*


Many victims of abuse have a very difficult time divulging information about their abuse - hiding and avoiding is a coping mechanism.

23 years ago, your wife was likely not at a point emotionally to be able to divulge any of this information. So, wishing she would have said something then, is really a moot point, and it does no good to dwell on the fact now.

You need to accept today, now, that she was not emotionally capable at that point to give you that information and you need to accept today, now, that you work together in order to move forward. Quit dwelling on the past and what did or didn't happen. Start dwelling on the present and what you can do today to make things better for yourself, your relationship, and her.

We can never know everything there is to know about our spouses. And indeed, it is not even a right. It is a privilege and an honour that they bestow upon us information from their hearts and their pasts. Accept it as such.

Quit blaming your wife for her perceived inactions. Accept her, love her, show her that there is no reason to hide information from you and that you bear no grudges about what happened to her and how she tried to handle it knowing that at the time she was likely handling it in the only way that she knew how.

Best wishes.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think it's disingenuous to suggest that simply because the other partner knows about past trauma, they can deal with all of the issues that may arise from it.
> 
> *I guess it depends on the spouse, now doesn't it? Perhaps there were things in my personality that suggested to her that I could not deal with this information in a healthy and productive way. BUT...when she did tell me, I dealt with just in that way (read on down a few posts to see how I dealt with it)*
> 
> If you mean "provide the opportunity to walk away", then fine, but say so. If simply telling someone about a problem allowed the listener to solve it, there would be no incurable disease.


*I don't think I would have walked away even if I had known before our marriage. BUT...when problems came up I would have known the source and gotten us help much, much sooner.

It's a "catch 22" I guess. As a man, I need sex to connect with my wife. Not just sex, but real honest connection love making. I need her to respond to me sexually. My wife would not for years (very limited response and also far to infrequent sex). This led to feelings of anger, frustration and resentment on my part...which in turn changed how I treated my wife, which in turn lead to her believing that I could not be trusted with this information.

A circle that SHOULD have never started. When I first brought up my unfulfilled sexual needs, if she had but told me the truth the healing could have started MUCH sooner and I think we would be in a much, much better place now.

That's why I say, "I had a right to know."*


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

JustAMan--many people who are victims to sexual abuse do not feel comfortable sharing that with anyone, be it a spouse, family member, friend, psychologist. The reason is because it's very shaming to them. Ironic? Absolutely. But it's something they see as really awful and opening up that kind of dialogue makes them have to come to terms with it as being a reality. Many people push it out of their minds and act as if it never happened, or take the seret to their graves. Ultimately, they feel it's a black mark on them and don't want to be seen as different or bruised/used/weak, etc. They don't want you to look down on them for what they've experienced, or be seen differently, which they definitely will after they tell you. BTDT.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> I feel your frustration. 3 years after our divorce, my ex finally admitted that he had been physically and sexually abused by his father. Although it didn't effect our sex life directly, there were all kinds of emotional neglect and abuse issues in our marriage. I spent years confused, frustrated and feeling bad about myself because I could not figure out what I was doing that was so bad or why he was treating me the way he did.
> 
> *That is just so sad. This is EXACTLY what happened to us. The behavior my wife was engaging in had no "logic" or basis in reality. I was/am "the good husband". Perfect?? Oh, my, NO!!! But none-the-less a good husband. That's not just me saying that, but most of our friends and family--people who know us well. For the most part they had NO idea this was going on in our marriage. I should have begun to discuss this with others YEARS ago (my frustrations). Perhaps that would have helped my wife open up to me. On the other hand, she may have divorced me instead.*
> 
> I don't blame him at all for what happened to him as a child, but I do blame him for using me to avoid dealing with his own stuff. It was easier to act out on me that it was to confront and deal with his pain, no matter the pain and damage it caused me. I was his sacrifical lamb.


*Nor to I blame my wife. She was a child for crying out loud!!! But like you I do think she has some responisbility at some point to say, "You know, this just might be something that is affecting our marriage." and bring it up--as difficult as that would have been.

See, she said she was afraid I would leave her if she told me. But that fear was NOT based in reality!!! What really happened when she FINALLY told me was she got love and support and help. BUT...she also quickly discovered that this information being "out there" there in our marriage forever altered her and how she deals with me. She can no longer blame me for ALL the problems we have (this was her pattern in the past).

Now she has two choices, heal (more forward in a healthy way) or continue in the past unhealthy patterns. It is her choice now. All I can do is try to support her in making the healthy decisions/choices. She has to do the bulk of the work to heal. I am responsible for supporting her in doing what is right and providing an enviornment where she feels safe to do so. That is huge, I think for victims--to feel safe.*


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My husband was physically and emotionally abused as a child. Severe abuse, as I'm not finding out.

It has rocked the core of our marriage. But we're working through it and I'm not angry that he didn't lay this all out before marriage.

Sometimes with abuse, as with my husband, they themselves don't even remember everything and little by little it comes out by being triggered...

Maybe your wife didn't really KNOW all her abuse before marriage but now things are coming out?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> So they are ashamed? That gives them the right to destroy the lives of people that love them


Whoa.
How does someone feeling ashamed about having been abused and endured sexual abuse "destroy the lives of people that love them?"  Wow, so the victim of sexual abuse isn't allowed to feel hurt/ashamed of what happened to them? Without it destroying peoples' lives around them??? :scratchhead: And yes, it is completely normal for sexual abuse victims to feel very ashamed and terrible that something so awful happened to them. They did not have a choice in the matter. At all. 



priclesspearl said:


> I wonder how many people would defend that by saying...they were too ashamed to get help and didn't have any other way of coping?


Anyone would would DEFEND someone sexually abusing someone else is reprehensible. Suggesting that because a sexual abuse victim feels ashamed about being abused will lead them to abusing others is also way offside. Yes, there are people who do that, but my bet is in their are in the minority. People who abuse others have fcking issues, abused or not in the past. Anyone who sexually abuses a child needs to rot in hell and go to prison for the rest of their life. 

It's one thing to feel ashamed about being sexually abused. It's completely another thing to sexually abuse someone else. They are not one in the same.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't really care WHY you're broken. I want you to fix that or at least come clean you ARE broken. The reasons are unimportant. Mommy drank or uncle touchy touched you or who knows what. You're a big girl now and either fix that or give up.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't really care WHY you're broken. I want you to fix that or at least come clean you ARE broken. The reasons are unimportant. Mommy drank or uncle touchy touched you or who knows what. You're a big girl now and either fix that or give up.


:iagree: Sometimes, though, it takes a long time for the broken to not want to be broken anymore.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Why would I put that burden on someone else? I personally do not think my husband has a right to know. I've put it in the past and it does not and has not affected my relationship with my husband. We have an absolutely wonderful marriage. It happened as a younger child from a neighbor kid(he was roughly 15/16). I have told one person(best friend) many years ago and no one else until today. I've blocked it out and haven't thought about those horrible memories until I saw this post. I'm not living in a lie. If my husband would ask, then I would tell the truth. I live a great life and I've delt with that issue and recovered from it years ago. I've never had an EA/PA on my husband or past relationships and never will. I love my husband and I'm very lucky to be married to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> My point is, that shame and guilt is not an acceptable excuse to inflict pain and suffering on others.


Nobody said it was.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think it's disingenuous to suggest that simply because the other partner knows about past trauma, they can deal with all of the issues that may arise from it. If you mean "provide the opportunity to walk away", then fine, but say so. If simply telling someone about a problem allowed the listener to solve it, there would be no incurable disease.


Why don't you just come out and say that it is perfectly acceptable to lie and deceive your future spouse about such important information that will have an impact on his life as well for years to come? Now who is being disingenuous?


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## 4821 (Nov 3, 2011)

So did the OP get the answer to their quesiton?


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

I think the assumption is that the W had dealt with/was dealing with her sexual abuse and was at a point that she could effectively and safely discuss it with a future spouse. That's a lot of assumptions. I was not able to confront things that happened to me until my 40s. I don't think this means that I was dishonest to anyone. For the next wife, ask for a full psychological eval before saying 'I do.'

It would seem from these posts that those who have not had any of this in their past will not understand. 

"Get over being broken, or at least, admit it" 
And "you should have told me all your deepest darkest secrets of crappy **** that happened to you because it might affect *ME*" is just ignorance talking.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Why would I put that burden on someone else? I personally do not think my husband has a right to know. I've put it in the past and it does not and has not affected my relationship with my husband. We have an absolutely wonderful marriage. It happened as a younger child from a neighbor kid(he was roughly 15/16). I have told one person(best friend) many years ago and no one else until today. I've blocked it out and haven't thought about those horrible memories until I saw this post. I'm not living in a lie. If my husband would ask, then I would tell the truth. I live a great life and I've delt with that issue and recovered from it years ago. I've never had an EA/PA on my husband or past relationships and never will. I love my husband and I'm very lucky to be married to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, you are one of the lucky ones then (by that I mean not the abuse but it not affecting you as badly). My wifes abuse was MUCH more severe (including rape). It took place over a 4 year period beginning when she was around 7 years old. The boy was much older and he not only abused and raped her but he also terrorizied her as well. 

If it had NOT afffected our marriage in any way, then yes, I could say that she MIGHT not have an obligation to tell me. But it did. It was SEVERE!!! To the point that for a number of years she insisted she could not have intercourse with me because "it hurt too bad" and she had all kinds of "medical" explanations (that it turns out were not true at all). I was not allowed to visit her OB/GYN with her. She suffered and still does suffer other severe health problems that are no doubt due to this abuse and her failure to handle it in a healthy and productive way.

Avoidance is a body AND soul killer, let me tell you. It's also a relationship killer!

I'm only giving you a glance at what it was like in our marriage. It's a wonder we are still together at all.

She has now, and has had all along, a very vivid recollection of SOME of the abuse (in particular the first incident). She has known all along that this was the problem--or the majority of it in our marriage. But she refused to tell me. She refused to get help. She refused to do the things necessary that would make "us" better.

I'm not saying it was easy, but telling me was the answer!! We started getting help right away. We are now some better and are hoping for better days ahead--if she continues to work. Right now she is "stalled out" again--but that's another story.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

4821 said:


> So did the OP get the answer to their quesiton?


It's me, the OP. What I'm hearing is "yes" and "no". Yes if it affects your marriage. No if it does not. It's simply irrelevant information if there is no affect on your marriage.

I DO understand that it's difficult to "shell the corn down" and talk about past abuse. But when she said "I do" it became about more than just about her and her feelings.

It has severely affected our marriage in a very, very negative way. It has affected me as a husband and as a man in some very, very negative ways. Like her abuse, some of MY scars will never heal; they will fade, but never heal. I don't mean to have a pity party--I'm not. I'm just stating facts here.

My opinion: If it affects your marriage, you partner absolutely positively has the RIGHT and the NEED to know. You have a moral obligation to tell them AND get help.

Spouses, you have an obligation to help the wounded mate get through this. It's a difficult journey, but nothing good is ever easy.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't really care WHY you're broken. I want you to fix that or at least come clean you ARE broken. The reasons are unimportant. Mommy drank or uncle touchy touched you or who knows what. You're a big girl now and either fix that or give up.


I'm guessing here, Runs like Dog, that you are an oldest child.

I am, and I hear what you are saying, although it's a bit harshly and simplistically put. It is more complicated than that due to the dynamic that abuse sets up in a person at the very core of their soul.

I'm only now beginning to understand it.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> *Well, you are one of the lucky ones then. My wifes abuse was MUCH more severe (including rape). It took place over a 4 year period beginning when she was around 7 years old. The boy was much older and he not only abused and raped her but he also terrorizied her as well.
> 
> If it had NOT afffected our marriage in any way, then yes, I could say that she MIGHT not have an obligation to tell me. But it did. It was SEVERE!!! To the point that for a number of years she insisted she could not have intercourse with me because "it hurt too bad" and she had all kinds of "medical" explanations (that it turns out were not true at all). I was not allowed to visit her OB/GYN with her. She suffered and still does suffer other severe health problems that are no doubt due to this abuse and her failure to handle it in a healthy and productive way.
> 
> ...


I don't want to get into too many details, but I was also terrorized and it was ongoing for 2-3 years before it stopped. They moved. I was around 6-7 when it started. I often wondered why my mother couldn't see the red flags. Whenever he was about to come over to hang out with my brother, I would throw a fit. He threatened me severely and if I told on him, he would do bad things. Also, he led me to believe that no one would believe me if I told on him.

I'm very sorry your wife is having a difficult time. I do pray that she heals over this issue and move on from it. Everyone heals in a different way. I'll never be able to forgive what happened. I can easily block it out of my memory, which has worked well. I haven't thought about what happened for over 20 years until this thread came up. I honestly don't want my husband to have this in the back of his mind. I'm sure it would make him feel horrible. We are very close and have a beautiful relationship. Both our feelings for each other are at the same level. We are both connected emotionally and physically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I don't want to get into too many details, but I was also terrorized and it was ongoing for 2-3 years before it stopped. They moved. I was around 6-7 when it started. I often wondered why my mother couldn't see the red flags. Whenever he was about to come over to hang out with my brother, I would throw a fit. He threatened me severely and if I told on him, he would do bad things. Also, he led me to believe that no one would believe me if I told on him.
> 
> I'm very sorry your wife is having a difficult time. I do pray that she heals over this issue and move on from it. Everyone heals in a different way. I'll never be able to forgive what happened. I can easily block it out of my memory, which has worked well. I haven't thought about what happened for over 20 years until this thread came up. I honestly don't want my husband to have this in the back of his mind. I'm sure it would make him feel horrible. We are very close and have a beautiful relationship. Both our feelings for each other are at the same level. We are both connected emotionally and physically.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First of all I want to express my sorrow at what happened to you. I hope your abuser was caught and prosecuted. 

You are so right though, everyone heals in different ways. My wife's issue is that even though she knew she was abused AND that it was affecting us, she avoided dealing with it to avoid the pain. If it were just her, that would be OK (still not healthy, but OK).

If you have a great relationship with your husband then there may never be a need to tell him. BUT...if it ever affects you and/or your relationship with your husband--please tell him. 

My wife is still very disconnected from me emotionally and physically. Actually, she is emotionally disconnected from everyone (including her family).

It makes for a very difficult time in a marriage, in particular when my love language is physical touch AND I have a high sex drive.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

morituri said:


> Why don't you just come out and say that it is perfectly acceptable to lie and deceive your future spouse about such important information that will have an impact on his life as well for years to come?


Because I don't believe that to be true. I don't advocate covering it up, merely being equally honest about the reasons for wanting to know.


> Now who is being disingenuous?


Not me.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Because I don't believe that to be true. I don't advocate covering it up, merely being equally honest about the reasons for wanting to know.
> 
> Not me.


Well, Sawney Beane, my reasons for wanting to know are really quite simple.

Our marriage will NEVER even be close to what it should be unless she heals. She refused to get help on her own. It was not until she told me and I took action that we got the help we needed. It was almost too late then--and even that remains to be seen.

It's a cold, cold place to be in a marriage where your spouse refuses to meet your needs (I'm talking about average run-of-the-mill needs--no weird stuff). It a cold place to live in a marriage where your spouse is not truly your mate and partner. It's a cold place to live where you are kept at arms length and you don't even know why because your mate won't tell you--and by all accounts you have done everything you can to connect with them--but still nothing.

I did not get married to be emotionally and physicially abandoned--and to a large degree this describes my marriage up until now.

That is not a marriage. My wife would have been better off with a room mate. Where the obligations are fairly limited compared to a marriage.

A marriage where one/both spouses are not met by the other is not really a marriage. 

No matter WHAT the reason!!!


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> Well, Sawney Beane, my reasons for wanting to know are really quite simple.


Hey, I'm on your side, pal.



> Our marriage will NEVER even be close to what it should be unless she heals. She refused to get help on her own. It was not until she told me and I took action that we got the help we needed. It was almost too late then--and even that remains to be seen.


I am in the fortunate position of not having any first hand knowledge of the effect of sexual abuse on anyone. But I've seen what PTSD can do to people, and how hard the help that is given can be on _the people who actually need it_. The best way I can describe it is in some cases people almost having to be broken down further before they can be rebuilt, like having to break a bone that healed wrong. It must be extremely hard to put yourself into that position, seeing only the worsening of the pain you have, without any obvious guarantee of improvement. I wouldn't want to walk a mile in those shoes.



> It's a cold, cold place to be in a marriage where your spouse refuses to meet your needs (I'm talking about average run-of-the-mill needs--no weird stuff). It a cold place to live in a marriage where your spouse is not truly your mate and partner. It's a cold place to live where you are kept at arms length and you don't even know why because your mate won't tell you--and by all accounts you have done everything you can to connect with them--but still nothing.


Unless they can convince themsleves that the pain of doing nothing is worse than the perceived risks of trying to mend things with no guarantee of success, becoming the person you want them to be isn't an easy journey. I'm not saying what you say there is wrong, far from it in fact, but you aren't the only one carrying a problem here.



> I did not get married to be emotionally and physicially abandoned--and to a large degree this describes my marriage up until now.


At the risk of interfering with your chain of thought, she probably didn't marry you to do those things. She probably hoped the support within marriage would be enough. She was wrong - it wasn't, but the decision she made probably had no malice attached to it.



> That is not a marriage. My wife would have been better off with a room mate. Where the obligations are fairly limited compared to a marriage.
> 
> A marriage where one/both spouses are not met by the other is not really a marriage.
> 
> No matter WHAT the reason!!!


With all due respect, what your wife would be better off with is someone who can help her to heal. But it's a big ask, and the lack of up-front clarity doesn't help.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Hey, I'm on your side, pal.
> 
> 
> I am in the fortunate position of not having any first hand knowledge of the effect of sexual abuse on anyone. But I've seen what PTSD can do to people, and how hard the help that is given can be on _the people who actually need it_. The best way I can describe it is in some cases people almost having to be broken down further before they can be rebuilt, like having to break a bone that healed wrong. It must be extremely hard to put yourself into that position, seeing only the worsening of the pain you have, without any obvious guarantee of improvement. I wouldn't want to walk a mile in those shoes.
> ...


First of all, thank you for your insights. You are correct on several fronts. 

My wife did NOT marry me with malice. She married me fully convinced that she was "past all the crap" in her past. She was not of course, and it was easier I suppose to do nothing rather than do something that was painful. It was easier to accuse me of being wrong etc. than to heal.

She does need my support. I guess the problem is that I have a lot of anger/frustration/resentment that I need to deal with in a healthy way in order to be of much help to her. She was abused for roughly 4 years. I was "ignored" for 23 years of marriage. Neither one of us "won" anything. It is a fact that SHE is not the only one that needs healing in this marriage!!

PTSD is a very strange thing. I think you are right, gathering from what I have read. People have to "hit bottom" much like a drug addict. They have to have a fear greater than confronting the fear of revealing the abuse. 

In my wifes case, she feared I was going to call it quits. I was getting close, I will confess. She picked up on that. I quit trying. I quit bugging her about sex and intimacy. I just sort of shut down. I honestly felt that she found me repulsive and disgusting and I could not for the life of me figure out why. I am attractive, in great shape, healthy, emotionally supportive, good with money, by most every account a good husband. But that was NOT enough, that's the rub.

And, quite honestly, after 23 years of trying EVERYTHING I knew and could read about to get her attention about my needs being unfulfilled, what could she expect? There does come a point where I am only human and can only endure so much loneliness and rejection.

So, while I must consider her feelings and trauma, she must also consider mine. I'm not EQUATING being abused as an innocent child to being neglected as a spouse--but still, there is something on both sides of the fence here. I think the key is to support each other in healing.

Again, thanks for an insightful, well thought out post!! That's why I'm here.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> With all due respect, what your wife would be better off with is someone who can help her to heal. But it's a big ask, and the lack of up-front clarity doesn't help.


Hmmm... so it sounds like neither one got what they want/need from this marriage. 

I'm still troubled by the talk that somehow the non-abused spouse has become the victim since the abused victim didn't get their act together before marrying. There seems to be a lack of empathy or at least a lack of trying to understand. All the best to both of them.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

jayde said:


> Hmmm... so it sounds like neither one got what they want/need from this marriage.
> 
> I'm still troubled by the talk that somehow the non-abused spouse has become the victim since the abused victim didn't get their act together before marrying.


To clarify, when I said it was a big ask, I meant that it's a big burden for someone to shoulder no matter what the circumstances. Helping someone with something like that takes a tremendous amount of strength and dedication. Not that any blame attaches to the victim.


> There seems to be a lack of empathy or at least a lack of trying to understand. All the best to both of them.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

JustAMan2

I'm going to say something you already know. You are torturing yourself. There are two victims here. Your wife and you. In many ways what was done to her was done to you. I think your feelings of anger and frustration are normal. Give yourself time to work through this.

Of course you wish you knew, but what you wish most is that it hadn't happened.

My heart goes out to you and your wife. You are a very good man to try to help her. Wishing both of you the best.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

that_girl said:


> :iagree: Sometimes, though, it takes a long time for the broken to not want to be broken anymore.


Right. But you have to wonder how long someone can want to keep their hand over a hot stove? To me, it does not compute. And honestly, I'm a big bag of bad wiring too. But I've been worse and worked mightily to improve a little bit. I don't drink or do drugs or dare the cops to fight me or shoot me anymore. My criminal record as an adult is strictly limited to bad driving. I haven't been beaten to a coma recently, tased or sodomized. I haven't been institutionalised, given ECT, zombified with drugs or tried repeatedly to kill myself in a long long time. So there's that. 

Nobody said life was guaranteed perfect, fair or nice. And no one but YOU owes you something. So I don't understand, I truly can not fathom why someone would insist on being miserable, disabled and horrible to themselves and everyone near and dear to them. Do they really believe some magic fairy's going to come down and fix their s^it for them? Do they hope that everyone will feel as sorry for them as they do? 

Well guess what princess? Your dad was a drunk who screwed around and beat you. Your mom is the worlds' biggest martyr complex enabler who secretly hates you. Those are the cards you were dealt. I don't care why your wires are crossed and fried. No one does. Only you can care and if you don't then you're just in the way. 

This concludes today's self help PSA from the Institute of ex Orthodox Jew/Russian/South African studies focusing on the age old question of "Men are from Mars, Women are from can you just STFU? Really. CAN you just S.T.F.U???"


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JaM, I agree 100% with your first post. I have not read the rest of the posts yet.

Similar story for me. I'll write more later this week when I have access to a computer instead of only a cell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jayde said:


> Hmmm... so it sounds like neither one got what they want/need from this marriage.
> 
> I'm still troubled by the talk that somehow the non-abused spouse has become the victim since the abused victim didn't get their act together before marrying. There seems to be a lack of empathy or at least a lack of trying to understand. All the best to both of them.


I'm solidly with JustaMan and Morituri after reading all this. I agonized for years what was defective about me. Then the wife cranked up sex to get pregnant. Then the mightmares/flashbacks hit her when the baby arrived and she raged on me. Lots of years of me trying to understand, trying to fix myself, and failing to connect with her. Many significant parenting issues. 

My life would have been far different with the one piece of info she kept secret. Deception has a cost.

I even asked her early on about molestation/rape when she showed passion about a news story. She denied any.

How the abuse side effects impacted the marriage is unknown in detail but is clear in general. For damn sure we would have sought a better answer in year 2! 

My life has been hugely impacted for 30 years by her lies and deception. She sacrificed my sex life and my emotional well being so she could avoid her own discomfort. 

Yes I and my children are victims of the abuser too.

She has the right to privacy. She doesn' have a right to secrecy deception or lies.

I feel as betrayed as if she had a PA. Her behavior was consistent at times with PAs but with the knowledge of her CSA it is consistent with that. But our marriage was harmed by the suspicion of affairs.

If she had told me 29 years ago rather than this year our lives would have been vastly different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Are you saying you wouldn't have married her if you knew?
> .
> .
> .
> This is blaming the victim. You simply have no way of knowing what impact it has had without her saying what it might be, if any.


Do we not each have the right to decide who to marry based on accurate info and our own biases? We might not know what exactly will happen bu we have the right to guess and decide if we are willing to take those challenges and risks.

It is NOT blaming the victim. It is blaming the ABUSE and ABUSER. Just as a medical condition may be an important consideration (unable to get pregnant, or removed testicles).

The abuse survivor has no special right to a marriage relationship or the benefits thereof based on deception or lies. Sad as it is, and unfair as all hell, the CSA survivor does have an abuse history with the associated psych/sexual problems. Potential spouses have the right to decide their own future with full honest disclosure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Concealing major issues that make a the person what they are does not lead to a true partnership and it is wrong. I think it is essential to tell a potential partner about all issues that had major influences on one's life.

A person who keeps major secrets because they fear rejection is hiding their true self and will not have a loving intimate relationship. You cant love someone you are deceiving because you have to hide. Love and intimacy reveals.

The abuse victim - I hate it so much that it is difficult for me to type. But I believe that with truth and honesty, they can find someone who will love them and they can love. But they have to reveal themselves to weed out those that will exercise their right of refusal. 

People do have the right to know. Many people don't reveal major issues, hoping that it will go away. I don't think that it is the intention of the abused to deceive. Child sexual abuse makes a person split in order to endure. 

They become two people the one that takes the abuse and then is tucked away until needed and the one who forgets it and acts normal. It is that one who forgets that has the hope of being normal and finding true love and it is the abused one that rages.

If your life has been touched by abuse either through personal experience or by association with one who has been abused, read about how children who are brutally sexually abused survive psychologically. 

Only a small % go on to abuse others. It does not erase your pain but it may help you to forgive and move on.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> Do we not each have the right to decide who to marry based on accurate info and our own biases? We might not know what exactly will happen bu we have the right to guess and decide if we are willing to take those challenges and risks.
> 
> It is NOT blaming the victim. It is blaming the ABUSE and ABUSER. Just as a medical condition may be an important consideration (unable to get pregnant, or removed testicles).
> 
> ...


I fully see your point. But there is one flaw. Not every victim knows they were abused and to what extent. I'm not saying the above examples didn't know. It's just with PSTD things come back to people in pieces. Some victims don't even know if what they remember is true for long periods of time. I don't think that future spouses should be deceived, but sometimes the victim is deceiving themselves as well.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have to remember that although she was abused, the OP was abused over a protracted 30 yr period. He is as deeply woulded as she plus, he has kids to worry about. 

I think we can give him a pass on the blame thing. Put yourself in his shoes, I think the sentiments he expresses are appropriate after what he has been through.

Put it like this - suppose he was the one abused and married and abused his wife for 30 yrs. His background, although sad, gives him no right to abuse others, right?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My wife has always remembered and known.

If I could make it all go away for her I would. I am giving her a lot more time and more leeway as we try to rebuild our marriage compared to if she had not told me (in desperation) when I confronted her this summer on our failing marriage. It is my job as husband to help her as long as she is trying to help herself. But to be clear I see her deception as a violation of her wedding vows. 

I've spoken with other secondary survivors in person and on forums who feel the same - great sadness and sympathy but also betrayed. Trust is shattered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> I'm solidly with JustaMan and Morituri after reading all this. I agonized for years what was defective about me. Then the wife cranked up sex to get pregnant. Then the mightmares/flashbacks hit her when the baby arrived and she raged on me. Lots of years of me trying to understand, trying to fix myself, and failing to connect with her. Many significant parenting issues.
> 
> My life would have been far different with the one piece of info she kept secret. Deception has a cost.
> 
> ...


Thor, I can really identify with you when you said "I agonized for years what was defective about me." I think I posted earlier that I finally concluded that my wife just found me repulsive. After a while I buried myself in work because the satisfaction of a job well done helped to "fill the hole". The up side was I made some good money!

Have you read the book "Wounded Heart"? Amazon.com: The Wounded Heart: Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse (9781600063077): Dan B Allender Ph.D., Dan B Allender: Books

It was an eye opener for me as the spouse of a victim of childhood sexual abuse.

I would have liked to have had children, but in hindsight, I suppose it was best we never did. I suspect that there would have been severe parenting issues if we had.

Another thing you said that is dead on the money about the way it feels to me: "My life has been hugely impacted for 30 years by her lies and deception. She sacrificed my sex life and my emotional well being so she could avoid her own discomfort. ". Except mine isn't 30 years yet. But the chief way my wife deals with difficult things is avoidance.

I explained to my wife that while she had NO control OR blame when she was abused as a child, at some point she stopped being a child and grew into adulthood. It was then time for her to make her own decisions and she willfully chose not to share vital information with me. That choice was at *great* expense to her, to me and to our marriage.

The problem is, as I understand PTSD, is that the victim is "frozen" in time and space. So, my wife deals with problems in her life just like she did when she was a child. This is a very unhealthy way to live in an adult world.

As I look back on our marriage, I can clearly see so many points where my wife made decisions (poor ones) that baffled me at the time, but now I think I understand why.

Thor, are you and your wife getting professional help? 

I am curious about one other thing, if you can share it. Did or does your wife manifest any physical symptoms? When I first called a therapist after my wife revealed her abuse I mentioned to him that my wife had other physical/medical issues. He said, "Don't tell me, let me guess. She has an undiagnosed GI disorder." You could have knocked me over with a feather!! This is but ONE of the things that I now understand was a physical manifestation of her abuse. There are others as well.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You have to remember that although she was abused, the OP was abused over a protracted 30 yr period. He is as deeply woulded as she plus, he has kids to worry about.
> 
> I think we can give him a pass on the blame thing. Put yourself in his shoes, I think the sentiments he expresses are appropriate after what he has been through.
> 
> Put it like this - suppose he was the one abused and married and abused his wife for 30 yrs. His background, although sad, gives him no right to abuse others, right?


Catherine, I suppose you are right, what I endured was a form of abuse, but my wife didn't do it with malice, so perhaps "abuse" is a bit strong.

Fortunately, we don't have any children. One thing I have noticed though is that childhood sexual abuse victims seem to connect very strongly with their pets. This fits with my wife’s behavior. It doesn't feel very good as a husband that the family pets often times get more attention than I do. See, they don't make any demands on her; she can "love" them, then just walk away. She is in COMPLETE control of the situation. But with a marriage, you must consider the other persons needs/wants/desires. That's often time too much for a victim of CSA.

I suppose it's a bit like not revealing to a potential spouse that you have an incurable STD. They have a right to full disclosure.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JaM2

I think we have nearly identical experiences.

I have not read that book yet. "Haunted Marriage" was good. Now I am into several relationship books aside from CSA books. My wife refuses individual therapy. She attended couples therapy 3 times. It seemed mostly she wanted to steer it away from her. She threatened divorce if there is ever any discussion of her abuse or any further statement from me that I had a right to know of her CSA before now.

She has no medical symptoms that I know of
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor,

It does sound like our experiences are very similar. At our last counseling session my wife refused to go in. She sat outside in the car while I went on in alone. There are some other things going on in our marriage right now--but they are a direct result of her avoidance--and she knows that and she said, "I'm not going in there just to get raked over the coals for what I did.” 

Because of this latest fiasco in our marriage, she has a new job. She has not brought up counseling once since that last session. We don't have a "standing appointment" with our councilor; we just make the next appointment at the end of each session.

So, right now our marriage is kind of in a "holding pattern". See, if I bring up things that she needs to work on, she gets angry and resentful towards me. If I don't ever bring those things up, nothing is done.

We seem to be right back to the same "vicious circle". I can't get her to understand that the path to healing is to end the circle of madness and that means WORK. Hard, difficult work. Doing things that are downright unpleasant and yes, will hurt.

It seems to me it's a difficult thing to know just how hard to push things with someone with PTSD. It's like dealing with a drug addict I suppose. You have to confront, to intervene, you cannot enable and you can't just sit back and do nothing either.

It's very, very frustrating for me. I WANT US IN A BETTER PLACE. She, it seems at times anyway, does not. 

With her it's "Better the devil I know [avoidance] than the devil I don't." The "devil" is the difficult work of healing.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

LimboGirl said:


> JustAMan2
> 
> I'm going to say something you already know. You are torturing yourself. There are two victims here. Your wife and you. In many ways what was done to her was done to you. I think your feelings of anger and frustration are normal. Give yourself time to work through this.
> 
> ...


Thank you LimboGirl. I hate the current "victim mentality" in our society, so I don't count myself as a victim, but in one sense of the word, I suppose I am. But, to a MUCH lesser degree than my wife was. She was an innocent child when she was molested/raped/terrorized by this monster. I was an adult and made choices, looking back on it now, some of which were not wise at all. I guess we all have the "if only" thing going on in some respects in our lives, don't we?

But still, she was a completely INNOCENT victim at the time. Now, when she became an adult, she certainly had some responsibilities, to herself and to me as her husband-to-be (mainly disclosure that she was molested/raped/terrorized). But, in fairness, she says she fell head-over-heels in love with me and honestly thought that all that "junk" was behind her.

BUT...when it cropped up again (in the form of me asking why her sexual responses were the way they were--and that I was not being sexually satisfied) THEN is when she "passed it on" to me, I feel. If you want to use the language, she victimized me at that point and ever since.

What is so surprising to me is how quickly I can get resentful towards her, even though I now have knowledge of why she acted like she did and still does.

I gave her an analogy that it was like I was near the edge of a cliff. With every rejection she made I moved closer and closer to the edge of the cliff, which is named "resentment". Now, I'm standing right on the edge of that cliff most of the time. It takes very, very little to "push me over" as it were. It's better now that I know WHY her behavior is so bizarre at times, but still, those feelings of mine don't just "go away" like magic. It's not a fun place to live.

But, I'm getting better at dealing with MY feelings. My feelings are indeed very, very normal. In fact, I'm betting that 99 out of 100 men would have packed it in a long, long time ago.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> It seems to me it's a difficult thing to know just how hard to push things with someone with PTSD. It's like dealing with a drug addict I suppose. You have to confront, to intervene, you cannot enable and you can't just sit back and do nothing either.


I struggle with that, too. The accepted wisdom is that the abuse survivor is fragile and thus everybody else needs to give her space and time to slowly build up to being able to deal with her issues. Then we all have to put up with her difficult behavior at times when she is in counseling. After a few years she may be fairly normal.

A lot of this is BS to me. Many psychologists who deal with CSA survivors are themselves survivors, and so there may not be good unbiased leadership going on.

My approach is to be vocal in being loving and supportive of my wife. But she absolutely must bring to the marriage an acceptable level of normalcy and she must show good improvement. Whether she needs counseling, or whether any particular issue is related to CSA, it does not matter. It is up to her to bring what I need in the marriage however she wants to bring it.

It would be different if we were in year 1 of marriage and she told me. But at my age and with all the years of crap we've been through, my fuse is a lot shorter.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> Fortunately, we don't have any children. One thing I have noticed though is that childhood sexual abuse victims seem to connect very strongly with their pets. This fits with my wife’s behavior. It doesn't feel very good as a husband that the family pets often times get more attention than I do. See, they don't make any demands on her; she can "love" them, then just walk away. She is in COMPLETE control of the situation. But with a marriage, you must consider the other persons needs/wants/desires. That's often time too much for a victim of CSA.


We have several kids, late teens/early 20's. I am the last on my wife's list of priorities. I am the only one she has ever been able to say "no" to. Four years ago I gave up on initiating sex with her (and she never did after that) when she got up to let the dogs into the bedroom. I HATE the dogs in the bedroom when we're having sex. She couldn't stand the thought that the dogs might be unhappy being banished for an hour. She would rather annoy me than the dogs!

She has responded amazingly well to these issues with me. But it definitely takes a conscious effort on her part. If things are just going along on autopilot I am right back on the bottom of the long list of priorities.




JustAMan2 said:


> Thank you LimboGirl. I hate the current "victim mentality" in our society, so I don't count myself as a victim, but in one sense of the word, I suppose I am. But, to a MUCH lesser degree than my wife was. She was an innocent child when she was molested/raped/terrorized by this monster. I was an adult and made choices, looking back on it now, some of which were not wise at all. I guess we all have the "if only" thing going on in some respects in our lives, don't we?
> 
> But still, she was a completely INNOCENT victim at the time. Now, when she became an adult, she certainly had some responsibilities, to herself and to me as her husband-to-be (mainly disclosure that she was molested/raped/terrorized). But, in fairness, she says she fell head-over-heels in love with me and honestly thought that all that "junk" was behind her.
> 
> BUT...when it cropped up again (in the form of me asking why her sexual responses were the way they were--and that I was not being sexually satisfied) THEN is when she "passed it on" to me, I feel. If you want to use the language, she victimized me at that point and ever since.


I see it the same way. What I hear from her and from other CSA survivors though is that they see us somehow blaming their abuse. The abuse is, in their minds, something very shameful. So we are blaming them in the worst possible way.

I blame first of all her abuser. His evil has touched me and my family.

Secondly I blame my wife for bad decisions, dishonesty, and avoidance. She never set out to harm me, though her actions did indeed harm me greatly.

Thirdly, I blame myself for not dealing with the issues in an effective way. Perhaps the most effective way is what most men would have done, and that is divorce my wife by the end of the first year when she regularly refused sex. My own issues led me to conclude that I was defective, and thus I turned everything that was wrong in the marriage onto myself.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> I struggle with that, too. The accepted wisdom is that the abuse survivor is fragile and thus everybody else needs to give her space and time to slowly build up to being able to deal with her issues. Then we all have to put up with her difficult behavior at times when she is in counseling. After a few years she may be fairly normal.
> 
> A lot of this is BS to me. Many psychologists who deal with CSA survivors are themselves survivors, and so there may not be good unbiased leadership going on.
> 
> ...


:iagree:Thor, our stories are so similar that it's eerie to me!! I'm not sure I buy into the "accepted wisdom". I do agree that the victim needs some time and space to work through the issues stemming from abuse, but PROGRESS does need to be made in a regular and timely way. I think it's very VERY difficult for a spouse to be the one to "monitor" this progress. I think a councilor/therapist is probably the best person to do this.

A spouse is just "too close" to it all and it only builds feelings of resentment that come between the couple. It's like you said, you will love and support her BUT she absolutely must bring the marriage relationship up to an acceptable level. That includes, but is not limited to sex. Not just frequency--but the level of passion.

My fuse too is so much shorter now with my wife. For years and years I have endured her "crap" without knowing why. Now I know why, that doesn't make all those feelings of resentment I have just vanish like magic. BUT...I do stop and think and try to consider and even ask her, "Where is this coming from?" to try to get her to see what her behavior is doing in our marriage.

It is a difficult road for both of us. But I think it's worth it to be better. My wife, however, does not agree with me at this point. I am hoping and praying that will change.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> We have several kids, late teens/early 20's. I am the last on my wife's list of priorities. I am the only one she has ever been able to say "no" to. Four years ago I gave up on initiating sex with her (and she never did after that) when she got up to let the dogs into the bedroom. I HATE the dogs in the bedroom when we're having sex. She couldn't stand the thought that the dogs might be unhappy being banished for an hour. She would rather annoy me than the dogs!
> 
> She has responded amazingly well to these issues with me. But it definitely takes a conscious effort on her part. If things are just going along on autopilot I am right back on the bottom of the long list of priorities.
> 
> ...


My wife too has a tendency to do what I call "return to default mode". It just easier than having to think about it and work at healing. She is also easily distracted by other "important things", some of which are of her own making and, in my opinion, designed by her to keep the focus and pressure off of her and what she needs to be doing to heal. In other words--the default mode of avoidance.

I would totally agree with the "order of blame" you have written about. I do bear some responsibility. Looking back on things, I guess I should have "manned up" early on in our marriage. If I had done that, my wife probably would have just divorced me--but we'll never know now.

But...my wife refuses at this point to accept any responsibility for her role in bring this abuse into our marriage and allowing it to have such a negative impact. She mostly blames me. I told you I buried myself in work to "fill the hole". Well, that's her "out" in her mind. She says I abandoned her with work. That is true, but many a time I sat her down and explained my needs to her and what was going to happen if my needs weren't met. I am a "straight shooter" and I had no problem looking her right in the eye and telling her how it was.

What finally convinced her to tell me was that that she believed I was leaving her. I had indeed had enough abuse from her and had, over a period of several years, withdrawn from her more and more. There were some other things too that pointed to the idea that I was "outta here". Emotionally though, I had been "checked out" for a long, long time.

It's a response to the very real and deep pain of almost constant rejection, I think. I'm not saying its right, but it is a very typical response.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JaM2, I'm getting worried that you are me, and I don't remember posting under the name JaM2!

I too went off into building my career, with a conscious thought of it being a way to not have to deal with the dysfunctional marriage. I wasn't so direct as you were maybe with telling my wife what my needs were. That was a failing of mine. I was afraid of blowing up the marriage and so I let too much slide.

As you said, we'll never know what would have happened had we either known the truth or had we stood stronger for our own needs early on.

My wife, at least to me, refuses to accept any responsibility. But she must know on some level that the psych side effects of the abuse have an impact because she is so strongly reactive to any suggestion of it.

My wife only told me when she saw I was serious about divorce being an imminent option. Like it could be decided during that conversation that I was going to pull the plug. She thought I was already emotionally out of the marriage, which led her to abandon the marriage 2.5 years ago. So I thought she was in an affair (and am not convinced yet she wasn't), and thus I confronted her. 

Your words "the very real and deep pain of almost constant rejection" are verbatim what I have said to my wife about how the marriage has been for me.


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## 4821 (Nov 3, 2011)

jayde said:


> I think the assumption is that the W had dealt with/was dealing with her sexual abuse and was at a point that she could effectively and safely discuss it with a future spouse. That's a lot of assumptions. I was not able to confront things that happened to me until my 40s. I don't think this means that I was dishonest to anyone. For the next wife, ask for a full psychological eval before saying 'I do.'
> 
> It would seem from these posts that those who have not had any of this in their past will not understand.
> 
> ...


agree


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## 4821 (Nov 3, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> First of all I want to express my sorrow at what happened to you. I hope your abuser was caught and prosecuted.
> 
> You are so right though, everyone heals in different ways. My wife's issue is that even though she knew she was abused AND that it was affecting us, she avoided dealing with it to avoid the pain. If it were just her, that would be OK (still not healthy, but OK).
> 
> ...


How was your relationship with your wife before you were married?


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## 4821 (Nov 3, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> First of all, thank you for your insights. You are correct on several fronts.
> 
> My wife did NOT marry me with malice. She married me fully convinced that she was "past all the crap" in her past. She was not of course, and it was easier I suppose to do nothing rather than do something that was painful. It was easier to accuse me of being wrong etc. than to heal.
> 
> ...


married 23 years - what point did she tell you she was abused in her childhood? at what point did you feel neglected in this marriage?


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## Chuckp47 (Nov 11, 2011)

Very good thread, and very telling. I've often wondered if this isn't lurking in my wife's past somewhere. There have been moments when we have gotten close to the truth but then the wall goes back up. A person who would knowingly bring another person in this type of relationship has only concern for themselves. She doesn't want to be alone so she doesn't tell you the truth, not a great way to begin a relationship. And no, i would not have married her. I wanted a wife, not a psychology project and i have paid dearly for that mistake. In a world where bad things happen to good people you either learn to move on or you don't. My wife's entire life has passed her by but I can't waste one more minute trying to fix what she isn't willing to have fixed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

4821 said:


> How was your relationship with your wife before you were married?


4821, we only dated for 11 months before we married. It was a "whirlwind" romance. That is part of the problem, I suppose. Our relationship was very good at that point. My wife thought when she met me and "fell in love" (infatuation) that the "crap" from her past was all behind her. She thought "I now have a man who truly loves me.", and that the past issues were just that--all in the past.

Looking back on it now, there were signs that I didn't pick up on, but that the price you pay for being young and blissfully in love with someone. I think the "me" of today would have slowed down and wanted to know lots more about her before asking her to marry me.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

4821 said:


> married 23 years - what point did she tell you she was abused in her childhood? at what point did you feel neglected in this marriage?


4821, actually we have been married 24 years. She did not reveal her past abuse until just shy of year 23.

I felt neglected in the marriage very early on. With in a year or two. The "honeymoon" phase wore off (as is natural) and she began to revert back to her old ways of avoiding things that were difficult for her (sex in particular). I began to speak to her about why her sexual responses were not "normal". By that I mean that there is a wide range of sexual responses (none are right or wrong) but NO response or so little it's almost undetectable is a sign that something is wrong. I had no clue what was wrong at the time.

At one point, about 5 years into the marriage she stopped having intercourse with me. We "fooled around", but she said intercourse hurt too much. I wanted to "fix" this problem. I wanted to go to the Dr. with her to see what was wrong but my wife forbade it. She had a host of other physical problems as well and I chalked it up to that. Come to find out, it was actually steming from the abuse. It was based in that, is what I mean. Thankfully, we are now having intercourse again. It's not where it should be, but it's a start I suppose.

The problem is that for all those years a lot of anger and hostility and frustration and resentment built up in me. She wanted a husband she could trust and who would make her feel safe. While I have never ever even raised my hand to my wife (or any other woman) she sensed my frustrations. I would even talk to her directly (and yes, lovingly) about them. I suppose to her I was like her molester in some ways.

It was a vicious circle. She refused to meet my needs, or even tell me what the problem was. I would get angry and withdraw (typical male response) or try to get her to talk about it. She would accuse me of being a sex maniac, saying that I was the one with the problem and that all wives complain about the same thing with their husbands (not true!!). I was lonely, confused, angry and resentful. Eventually, I just concluded that my wife found me repulsive and digusting. Even though others people indicated I was not. 

Not good ingredients for a "good" husband or a happy marriage.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Chuckp47 said:


> Very good thread, and very telling. I've often wondered if this isn't lurking in my wife's past somewhere. There have been moments when we have gotten close to the truth but then the wall goes back up. A person who would knowingly bring another person in this type of relationship has only concern for themselves. She doesn't want to be alone so she doesn't tell you the truth, not a great way to begin a relationship. And no, i would not have married her. I wanted a wife, not a psychology project and i have paid dearly for that mistake. In a world where bad things happen to good people you either learn to move on or you don't. My wife's entire life has passed her by but I can't waste one more minute trying to fix what she isn't willing to have fixed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Chuck47, most victims of abuse have serious walls. My wife does. I mean SERIOUS walls. We all have walls, most of which are healthy. 

My wife doesn't have any close friends at all. None. Her "best friend" (female) was not even told about her abuse until just recently. Even then it was just a brief, sketchy conversation.

Also, I don't believe for one moment that my wife did all she did with any malice towards me (although at the time it sure did feel like it!!). Yours probably didn't either.

Childhood sexual abuse can alter a person at the very core of their being. Some people (I know some very, very well) are able to bring it up, get help and move past it. Others...like my wife, don't. 

I've often wondered what makes one person one way (dealing with things in a healthy, productive way) and another person the other way (denial, avoidance etc.--the unhealthy way of dealing with it). 

I suppose it depends in part on the family dynamic. My wife's family is pretty dysfunctional (it's only seen once you get to know them pretty good though). 

If you suspect your wife was abused, I would suggest reading the book I sited in an earlier post. It's called "Wounded Heart". It's a tad bit technical, but readable none-the-less. In it, I saw my wife so clearly!!! He describes behaviors that she has that for years baffled me.

I've read that up to 40% of women have been sexually abused to one degree or another (either as a child or an adult or both). You mentioned that this was a very telling thread. I think the fact that we now have 5 pages of responses speaks volumes.


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## Chuckp47 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you again. This last post seems like something out of my life. I have been to counseling for years, it started out because She had me convinced that there was something wrong with me. I do not always deal with this in the best way. As an example last night I was watching tv before going to sleep. She came into the room and for some reason the people on the show said sex 4 or 5 times in a row. I didn't say anything but she finally said "no wonder you think about sex all the time.". This could have gone many ways but for some reason the statement went through me. As if this was the reason I want companionship from my wife! (we are quickly gaining on the 4 month mark of no contact now btw). I said "no, the reason I think about sex is because I am a sex addict, dont worry though, am striving to be more assexual like you." Passive aggressive I know. of course she flew off the handle. She asked me why I was such an a-hole. Told her it was fun. That ended the conversation. She got what she wanted (instilling that I was indeed an a-hole) and I got what I wanted which was to be left alone... Good work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Chuckp47 said:


> Thank you again. This last post seems like something out of my life. I have been to counseling for years, it started out because She had me convinced that there was something wrong with me. I do not always deal with this in the best way. As an example last night I was watching tv before going to sleep. She came into the room and for some reason the people on the show said sex 4 or 5 times in a row. I didn't say anything but she finally said "no wonder you think about sex all the time.". This could have gone many ways but for some reason the statement went through me. As if this was the reason I want companionship from my wife! (we are quickly gaining on the 4 month mark of no contact now btw). I said "no, the reason I think about sex is because I am a sex addict, dont worry though, am striving to be more assexual like you." Passive aggressive I know. of course she flew off the handle. She asked me why I was such an a-hole. Told her it was fun. That ended the conversation. She got what she wanted (instilling that I was indeed an a-hole) and I got what I wanted which was to be left alone... Good work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Chuck47, it took a LONG, LONG time to convince my wife that my sex drive, albeit on the high end of the scale, and was actually quite normal. Also, it took a long time to convince her that men think about sex lots more than women and that also is quite normal. That we "connect" emotionally with our mates through sex and that is also quite normal.

In her mind, anything "outside" of her view of sex (frequency, positions, and other habits) was "abnormal", "weird" or "a perversion". In truth, her view of sex was severely warped, not only by the abuse, but by her parent’s very unhealthy view of sex as well. Pile on top of that her strict religious upbringing and it's a 1-2-3 punch that makes for almost sure-fire failure as a mate.

BUT--she refused to even discuss what was "normal". She refused to read material on it. When I would do so, she would scold me and say, "I wish you wouldn't read that perverted stuff." as if it were child porn or something. Her reactions where THAT strong.

One thing that helped us turn the corner, we took a marriage enrichment class at our congregation, "Love and Respect". It helped open her eyes to the fact that I was indeed normal in my sexual needs/desires. She tried to explain away things several times, but at the end of the day there was not much denying that what I wanted in our marriage was just plain old "normal".

It took a 3rd party saying it for her to at least consider the thought that her husband might not be the problem after all. He MIGHT just be fairly normal.

We also read the book "Sheet Music". Well, I read it anyway. She has read about half of it but is currently "stalled out" on that activity as well. I also read "His Needs/Her Needs" and read aloud to her what men’s needs typically are (#1 is sexual satisfaction/gratification). I also read "The 5 Languages of Love" and we discovered together what each other love language is (mine is physical touch, hers is quality time). I read a host of other material, but my wife says "I don't enjoy reading." yet she started a murder/mystery book by her favorite author a few weeks ago.

Do you have a stated purpose for no contact? If so, what is it? Is it meeting the objective you set forth? If not, I'd chuck it (pardon the pun, Chuck). Try something else, something different.

Try reading some of the books together. Use a pink (for her) and blue (for you) highlighter when you see a point that really strikes a cord with you and then discuss it with your wife.

Pay close attention to what she says is important, and try to get her to understand the same about your needs.

It may not work for you, but it helped us get the ball rolling.

I wish you the best Chuck. It sounds like you are in a really tough spot right now. I know that feeling, believe me!!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jayde said:


> I think the assumption is that the W had dealt with/was dealing with her sexual abuse and was at a point that she could effectively and safely discuss it with a future spouse. That's a lot of assumptions. I was not able to confront things that happened to me until my 40s. I don't think this means that I was dishonest to anyone. For the next wife, ask for a full psychological eval before saying 'I do.'
> 
> It would seem from these posts that those who have not had any of this in their past will not understand.
> 
> ...


If you read my posts and JustaMan2's posts you'll see several things. One is that our wives intentionally withheld information. Another is that they at some point knew that they were being affected by the fallout of the abuse. Finally, that fallout did impact the husband (and my kids) greatly.

If my wife had no memory of the abuse or thought she was completely over it, then it would have been no big deal for her to answer a YES when I asked her THREE TIMES if she had been abused or raped. In any case, once she realized she was having serious problems after we were married it was her duty to inform her spouse.

I don't know how aware she was of the significance of the abuse when we got married. So I understand how she could decide to not tell me. She might not have even really thought about the abuse much during our dating phase. At some point it did become obvious and relevant, and thus she should have told me.

She should have asked me for help and support. I am her husband, not her abuser.

I think that this topic of the right of the spouse to know of the abuse is a big divide between the abuse survivor and those around them. There is the term *Secondary Survivor* for a reason - we are also victims of the abuser. The abuse victim _unintentionally and without malice _passes on the evil by hiding the truth from their spouse.

It simply seems wrong to me that a human would not have the right to know critical information about their intended spouse which will have an enormous negative impact on their lives.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> The problem is that for all those years a lot of anger and hostility and frustration and resentment built up in me. She wanted a husband she could trust and who would make her feel safe. While I have never ever even raised my hand to my wife (or any other woman) she sensed my frustrations. I would even talk to her directly (and yes, lovingly) about them. I suppose to her I was like her molester in some ways.
> 
> It was a vicious circle. She refused to meet my needs, or even tell me what the problem was. I would get angry and withdraw (typical male response) or try to get her to talk about it. She would accuse me of being a sex maniac, saying that I was the one with the problem and that all wives complain about the same thing with their husbands (not true!!). I was lonely, confused, angry and resentful. Eventually, I just concluded that my wife found me repulsive and digusting. Even though others people indicated I was not.
> 
> Not good ingredients for a "good" husband or a happy marriage.


My wife mentioned the trust word to me in relation to not telling me. Like you, I was nothing but dedicated to her, the marriage, and the family. Yet she rejected me continually.

By not telling me, I was unintentionally doing things which triggered her. So yes in a way I did become her molester in her mind.

We got into the same vicious cycle of resentments and anger as you. I also concluded I must be repulsive to her. My wife and I both suffered many years due to the dysfunctional cycles we were in.

The abuse victims who think their spouse has no right to know about their abuse must not realize the damage, hurt, anger, and agony being inflicted by their secrecy. Or they think that their own comfort trumps the rest of the family's emotional health.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> My wife mentioned the trust word to me in relation to not telling me. Like you, I was nothing but dedicated to her, the marriage, and the family. Yet she rejected me continually.
> 
> By not telling me, I was unintentionally doing things which triggered her. So yes in a way I did become her molester in her mind.
> 
> ...


It's the same story at my house Thor. It's a very lonely, lonely road when you don't have a "road map", that being the knowledge you need to have to make wise, prudent, intelligent and informed decisions.

My wife confessed to me not long ago that she KNEW at different points in our marriage that I was not the problem (or at least not the ONLY problem), but she always found a way to blame me anyway. In other words, it was your second statement that was true for her: "Or they think that their own comfort trumps the rest of the family's emotional health." That's sad to me.

My wife's avoidance has had several other negative impacts on our marriage as well, not just in the bedroom, as I'm sure has yours. It just seems to me that it's such a sad way to live ones life, letting something from your past totally dictate who you are and what you can be.

One thing that my wife is NOT ready to do yet is to be able to talk freely with others about her abuse. A close friend of mine was abused as a child. Part the healing was being able to openly talk about it to others. It helped my friend become a very functional person and good mate.

I don't expect my wife to climb up on the rooftop and shout the news, but when opportunities arise I think it's a sign of a healthy person to be able to speak about such things. She bears so much shame for something that was not one whit her fault (the initial abuse). That is VERY typical of CSA victims.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> If you read my posts and JustaMan2's posts you'll see several things. One is that our wives intentionally withheld information. Another is that they at some point knew that they were being affected by the fallout of the abuse. Finally, that fallout did impact the husband (and my kids) greatly.
> 
> If my wife had no memory of the abuse or thought she was completely over it, then it would have been no big deal for her to answer a YES when I asked her THREE TIMES if she had been abused or raped. In any case, once she realized she was having serious problems after we were married it was her duty to inform her spouse.
> 
> ...


Thor, my wife lied to me several times about her abuse before I finally got the truth. She denied anything like that had ever happened to her, but finally caved and told me.

It's amazing how far she went to "protect" herself. Then last weekend she told me she was sorry she ever told me (because I insist that she do the difficult work to heal).


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> she told me she was sorry she ever told me


I've gotten that, too.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Just my two cents here. I think the IC should definitely be a bottom line in these situations. Both of you have had too much pain to accept otherwise.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> So they are ashamed? That gives them the right to destroy the lives of people that love them.
> 
> Many adults who were abused as a child, go on to become child abusers themselves. I wonder how many people would defend that by saying...they were too ashamed to get help and didn't have any other way of coping??
> 
> When your past causes you to hurt other innocent people, you have a responsibility to seek help. Period.


Are you f'ing kidding me?

Get better information.

Until you walk a mile in MY shoes as a child sexual assault survivor (by the way I don't abuse my kids in any way tyvm) don't even ASSume about an abuse survivor on what they do or don't do as a cause and effect of that abuse.


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## priclesspearl (Nov 14, 2011)

CantePe said:


> Are you f'ing kidding me?
> 
> Get better information.
> 
> Until you walk a mile in MY shoes as a child sexual assault survivor (by the way I don't abuse my kids in any way tyvm) don't even ASSume about an abuse survivor on what they do or don't do as a cause and effect of that abuse.


I am not assuming anything. The "information" is well documented. It is a fact that many (certainly not all) victims of CSA go on to become abusers themselves. And I am certainly not accusing anyone...just making the point (as others have on this thread) that being a victim of abuse does not entitle one to abuse others...in any way.

And FWIW, behaviour does not have to be malicious to qualify as abusive. At the heart of any type of abuse is the depersonalization of the the victim. The abuser does not see the other person as someone with their own indepent life, desires, thoughts and feelings. Which is why it is so easy to put one's own emotional comfort ahead of whatever pain the behaviour may cause the victim. I know in my case, I existed only as a coping mechanism for my ex. I don't think he was tryng to hurt me, but his experiences made it impossible for him see me or our relationship in any way except as a way for him to deal with his issues. I was his "dumping ground".


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

On some level I feel bad for all those victims of the victims of childhood sexual assalt. 

But not really. As an adult you can choose to remain in a relationship if your spouse is too damaged/deceitful/in denial or whatever you think. And you really cannot decide that they ought to get 'fixed' at your beck and call. Really.

As a child, many of these experiences were forced upon those people. And, this is different than what you're able to do and choose as an adult.

I find this thread disturbing on many levels.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jayde said:


> On some level I feel bad for all those victims of the victims of childhood sexual assalt.
> 
> But not really. As an adult you can choose to remain in a relationship if your spouse is too damaged/deceitful/in denial or whatever you think. And you really cannot decide that they ought to get 'fixed' at your beck and call. Really.
> 
> ...


I agree to an extent with you. Even as a 20 yr old my wife probably did not have much of an awareness of the effects her CSA had on her. All she knew was her personal experiences. She did not know how distant she was emotionally compared to "normal". She had no idea she would develop nightmares after having a baby years later.

And I did not understand what was going on after we got married. I thought I must be defective. I set about to figure out what was wrong with me. Since she was sexual with other men before me, and was sexual with me before the wedding, I thought I must be the one who was sexually defective.

Once the baby arrived I was committed to staying married if at all possible. I did decide to stay married despite a very unhappy marriage.

Where I differ from you is that you don't seem to place any responsibility on the adult CSA survivor. My wife should have taken adult responsibility when it became obvious to her that there were serious negative effects on other people. *She knew* she was having nightmares related to the abuse. *She knew* she was unable to have a normal sex life after the wedding.* She knew* she was unable to have a good emotional connection due to the CSA.

Yet she never told me a thing for 20 years after that point of the nightmares starting up after the first baby.

*She pretended* to be sexually available and emotionally interested so that we would have frequent sex when she wanted to get pregnant.

*She lied* when I asked her, three different times, specifically if she had ever been molested or raped. I give her a slight pass on this one because she was 20 to maybe 22 yrs old at the time and thought she was "adequately compartmentalizing it". I understand the typical CSA survivor is very frightened of revealing it, so she did not lie to be malicious. Still it represents a *serious level of deception* within our marriage.

I accept responsibility for choosing to stay in a bad marriage rather than bail on my kids. That was my choice.

From my side of the situation, though, all of this misery would have been avoided had she either spontaneously offered up the truth when we had serious pre-wedding discussions, or had she answered yes to my questions. Even then if the CSA effects made it impossible for her to do that, had she taken adult responsibility for addressing the problems when they surfaced after the baby was born (she was in her late 20's then) we would have avoided 20 years of misery.

I don't know what specific problems or events were directly related to her CSA psychological side effects. I do know that I would have not spent years blaming myself or putting up with a bad marriage when there was a possible alternate explanation.


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## priclesspearl (Nov 14, 2011)

jayde said:


> On some level I feel bad for all those victims of the victims of childhood sexual assalt.
> 
> But not really. As an adult you can choose to remain in a relationship if your spouse is too damaged/deceitful/in denial or whatever you think. And you really cannot decide that they ought to get 'fixed' at your beck and call. Really.
> 
> ...



I agree with that to a certain extent. Those experinces may have been forced upon them, but as an adult I do think there is a responsibilty to deal with them in a healthy way. But by the same token, those involved with the victims also have a responsibilty to themselves and their children if they don't.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

I remember something my therapist said. He said it is common for someone in their twenties to think they can handle it. They rarely get help in their twenties. They have to be a little older. He said this goes along with thought patterns of the twenties.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

You all are making some tremendous assumptions:
1. The person knows HOW to deal with whatever it is they are dealing with.
2. The person knows the impact of the abuse on their lives - emotionally, psychologically, sexually, socially, etc.
3. The person has the resources to deal with it (that is, given #1 and #2 are affirmative) - $$, access to mental health professionals, etc.

Big assumptions. You have no idea.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> but as an adult I do think there is a responsibilty to deal with them in a healthy way.


That is very nice for you to think that.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

I don't know that a person with this history can deal with it in a healthy way. They are not healthy.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

jayde said:


> On some level I feel bad for all those victims of the victims of childhood sexual assalt.
> 
> But not really. As an adult you can choose to remain in a relationship if your spouse is too damaged/deceitful/in denial or whatever you think. And you really cannot decide that they ought to get 'fixed' at your beck and call. Really.
> 
> ...


What I find disturbing is that some one would not be honest about their past. Even CSA victims. This is not 1950. The information is OUT THERE and readily available. Help is available. People do not look down on victims of CSA (for the most part).

It is a person DUTY to inform a potential mate of all relative and pertinent information. Yes, I said DUTY!!!

Even if they think they have put it past them (as my wife did when we were dating), when it comes up as a problem in the marriage (as it did in ours) she had a DUTY to inform me as her mate. 

If you don't feel that duty to inform, you are not really in the marriage 100%. I realize that CSA victims feel a great deal of shame and will do almost anything to keep it under wraps. I also know some other CSA victims who healed quite nicely as a result of coming forward and talking about the abuse. Like I said, this is NOT 1950!!! There is a TON of help available. One has only but to ask.

A few years ago I asked my wife to see a councilor for help dealing with her anger issues. She sat there and the councilor asked, "Why are you here?" She said "I don't know." He asked her over and over what she wanted/needed. She said nothing.
One session. She never went back. It was a PERFECT opportunity!!! 

Now, all that being said, again, I realize that CSA changes a person on the most fundamental of levels making telling others difficult.

The REASON I made this post (I am the OP) is that if you are out there and you are reading this and you are a victim of CSA you need to tell SOMEONE!!! Get help. As you can see from my posts and others it is HELL living with someone that does not tell and won't get help. Yes, they are the tortured soul, but so is the mate!!!!

Don't put your spouse through that, please. Get help. Talk to someone.

It's NOT all about you. For the sake of your marriage, your children, your family (and most importantly yourself!!!)...get help. The quicker the better. Don't put your spouse through what my wife has put me through.

The cost is just too high for both of you.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

jayde said:


> You all are making some tremendous assumptions:
> 1. The person knows HOW to deal with whatever it is they are dealing with.
> 2. The person knows the impact of the abuse on their lives - emotionally, psychologically, sexually, socially, etc.
> 3. The person has the resources to deal with it (that is, given #1 and #2 are affirmative) - $$, access to mental health professionals, etc.
> ...


1. The person may not know HOW to deal with it. That's OK. Know what??? There are lots of things I don't really know HOW to deal with. But I find out then deal with them. Do I mess up?? Sure. But I TRY. I am dealing with this mess right now (my wife's CSA and the carnage it has heaped on our marriage). It's ALL NEW TO ME!!! But I'm finding out (in part thanks to people like you) HOW to deal with it.

2. When your spouse is sitting there telling you, over and over and over again that things are not right. That your responses are not normal. When they are asking "Why?? What caused this??". You would have to TOTALLY blind to not realize that just MAYBE your past might have a little something to do with it. It easier to blame the innocent spouse though!!! It always is. Healing is hard, hard work. I make no assumptions about it. I have NOT walked in the shoes of a CSA, but I have walked in some difficult shoes. We have choices. All of us. Even CSA victims (not as a child, but as an adult is what I mean).

3. Resourses were NEVER a problem in our marriage. NEVER. 

All that said, I also want to express my profound sorrow at what you have apparently endured. I also want to express my gratitude to you for being willing to come on this board and give us your thoughts. We who are married to CSA victims need insight from you. I am very sincere here. Thank you.


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## priclesspearl (Nov 14, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> 1.
> 2. When your spouse is sitting there telling you, over and over and over again that things are not right. That your responses are not normal. When they are asking "Why?? What caused this??". You would have to TOTALLY blind to not realize that just MAYBE your past might have a little something to do with it. It easier to blame the innocent spouse though!!! It always is. 3. Resourses were NEVER a problem in our marriage. NEVER.


My me ex finally told me 3 years after our divorce. While married, we had many discussions about his self esteem and anger issues. And although I hadn't considered sexual abuse, it ws clear to me that much of his problems were related to his very dysfunctional relationship with his father (who was a total jerk). His telling me was part of the therapy he was going thru before remarrying. He told me "you were right". Acknowledging that to me was part of his treatment as well as acknowledging the damage he caused me and our family. Up until then he had no problems, everything was my fault, and his Dad had nothing to do with anything.

He could get the help he needed for her sake but not for mine or for the sake of our family. He was capable of dealing with it, he chose not to because we were an easier outlet for his pain. Only when he realized that eventually it would quit working with his 2nd wife also, then it worth it to him to get help.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> I also want to express my gratitude to you for being willing to come on this board and give us your thoughts. We who are married to CSA victims need insight from you. I am very sincere here. Thank you.


I haven't read this thread word for word, but this strikes me as the most compassionate thing I've read you that you've posted. And althought I appreciate your words, it's your wife that needs your compassion and love. I've sensed a lot of hurt, pain and anger from you, but IMHO, directing this at your wife is not the way to deal with it. And you've stated that you are aware of how to deal with such things so I will not be so condescending to reiterate here.

Yes, she does need to deal with whatever she has experienced in order to be healthy, but she really needs to be doing this for herself, foremost - and doing it in her way that works for her. For me, 30+ years later, I still have nightmares from time to time - over which I have ZERO control. And for someone suffering from more traumatic experiences than I had, I could imagine what must happen beside bad dreams.

Mandating, insisting, expecting, demanding that she 'takes responsibility' so that she can get better so that YOU are happy, just strikes me as bordering on cruel. 

And, I don't mean to negate your feelings or needs - these are real and you deserve to be happy too. I just strongly disagree with the approach/attitude.

I wish you both all the best.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is probably challenging for anyone who has had years of emotional battering and is a sensitive enough man to internalize his wife's judgement and come out of it with the wherewithal to be emotionally supportive.He has suddenly been released from a prison created by his marriage, he is not likely to have much sympathy for the jailer. They both need compassion and gentle loving care but at is point , neither of them have enough to give anything. 

A therapist with experience treating adult abuse victims bad their spouses is need to help them. 

Just as an aside- It is a pity that the anger in this relationship is directed at the two victims and not the perp who did this to her, nor any anger directed, nor any exploration of where he is and if it is possible that their are other victims or if he is still affending. 

This seems to be the way of CSA - the burden of prevention and punishment is shouldered by the innocent. CSA is one of the only crimes in which the perp is almost guaranteed not to suffer any consequences. I wish some of the anger was transformed into a campaign to rid society of this horrible crime. The percent of women who have a history of some type of sexual abuse is 35 - 45 %. That is an astounding statistic and has increased dramatically in the last 15 yrs. I wonder what role it has on the increasing prevalence of sexual problems in marriage. 

It probably would help the wife immensely is someone showed an interest in who and where the abuser is and to attempt to inform and prosecute expecially if he is in a place where he can still abuse. Also who else did he abused and have they been treated. That is one reason that the victim finds it is so difficult to tell because the perp is not targeted or even questioned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jayde said:


> Mandating, insisting, expecting, demanding that she 'takes responsibility' so that she can get better so that YOU are happy, just strikes me as bordering on cruel. .


I don't insist she should have gotten therapy in the past, nor now. She has no obligation to "fix herself" on any way for my happiness. My position is that an adult has no right to withhold important information from a spouse nor to allow harm to come to their spouse in order to avoid facing their own issues.

The way to have dealt with it would be:
A) tell the fiance before the wedding
B) tell the spouse when nightmares or other problems crop up. SEEK SUPPORT from her spouse.
C) admit to herself and seek therapy or other support when she thinks the psych effects are affecting her family.

If none of that is possible for her she should either not get married or end the marriage when she becomes aware that she is harming others yet cannot seek help for her issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Just as an aside- It is a pity that the anger in this relationship is directed at the two victims and not the perp who did this to her, nor any anger directed, nor any exploration of where he is and if it is possible that their are other victims or if he is still affending.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


My wife will not reveal specifically who it was. She would have to ask her parents and will not reveal her CSA to them. I have great anger at the perp because he harmed someone I love and he harmed me. He also harmed my kids (indirectly).

There is nothing I can do to find or punish the perp.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jayde said:


> You all are making some tremendous assumptions:
> 1. The person knows HOW to deal with whatever it is they are dealing with.
> 2. The person knows the impact of the abuse on their lives - emotionally, psychologically, sexually, socially, etc.
> 3. The person has the resources to deal with it (that is, given #1 and #2 are affirmative) - $$, access to mental health professionals, etc.
> ...


Every person has their own circumstances.

My wife is a Ph.D. Psychologist. She has academic training in this area though it is not her specialty in practice. She was required to get therapy as part of her grad program but did not bring up CSA. We have always had adequate resources to get therapy. She refused marriage counseling numerous times when I requested it. She did not want me to mention it in therapy when I made an IC appointment.

She stated that the psych side effects of the CSA impacted her sexuality and her ability to achieve emotional intimacy or trust. She was aware of at least some significant impacts on our marriage as it was happening.

There comes a point when reasonable excuses have been exceeded and a person is simply avoiding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

jayde said:


> I haven't read this thread word for word, but this strikes me as the most compassionate thing I've read you that you've posted. And althought I appreciate your words, it's your wife that needs your compassion and love. I've sensed a lot of hurt, pain and anger from you, but IMHO, directing this at your wife is not the way to deal with it. And you've stated that you are aware of how to deal with such things so I will not be so condescending to reiterate here.
> 
> Yes, she does need to deal with whatever she has experienced in order to be healthy, but she really needs to be doing this for herself, foremost - and doing it in her way that works for her. For me, 30+ years later, I still have nightmares from time to time - over which I have ZERO control. And for someone suffering from more traumatic experiences than I had, I could imagine what must happen beside bad dreams.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid you have not walked in my shoes. You see, for 23 years of our marriage this all was "my fault" according to my wife. She was normal, I was not. As it turns out the exact opposite is true. During those 23 years when she refused to be honest with me she did a LOT of damage to our marriage.

I don't think it's unfair or cruel to insist that she now "own up" and take responsibility AND HEAL. It's what adults do. All the words in the world (promises) mean nothing at this point. Action is what counts.

Hurt? Anger? Pain? Resentment? Yes, I freely admit that I have all those feelings. You would have to be heartless monster not to after 23 years of this type of marriage.

As I said in an earlier post, I am NOT equating what happened to my wife (as an innocent child) with what she has done to our marriage and me as her husband. The two don't come close to comparison. She had NO choice when the jerk abused her. She didn't have any options as a child, with only a child’s ability to deal with what was happening to her. I was an adult when I married. I COULD have walked away from the abuse I suffered in our marriage. I could have just "checked out" and had a marriage like her parents do. But, I do love my wife. She has many, many fine qualities that I admire and respect. I want the best for her and for me.

BUT...sex and intimacy is CORE in a marriage. Without it the marriage is dead. My wife blamed it all on me. Just as surely as she was innocent as a child, so was I in our marriage. I'm not claiming to be the perfect husband, but I was and still am a really good husband and not just by my own reckoning.

Do you really think that a spouse such as myself or Thor can just "put down" all the hurt, anger and resentment after years and years of lies and deceit and being used as a punching bag?

Come on. You know better!

I know that I need to be there for my wife--and I am. You really have NO idea how many times my needs take a back seat to hers. I'm talking about right now. She has healed in some ways, in other ways she is very, very "stalled out" right now. I am doing what I can to help her heal--but by in large the ball is in her court. 

But even if she does start healing again, that does not make my anger and resentment just "go away" like magic.

So, I come here to vent. I come here to warn others. Look at my marriage. Look what keeping this secret does not only to yourself, but to your spouse and your marriage and in the case of Thor, the children.

I come here to get perspective, which I desperately need in this process. I come here to get encouraged.

But..mostly to warn others of what keeping things like this to yourself in your marriage will do. To YOU and to your spouse. The quicker you start healing, the less anger, frustration and resentment there will be in your spouse. These are terrible road blocks in a marriage. and to healing. The quicker you get started, the better. In many, many cases it goes too long and the marriage goes past the "tipping point". The innocent spouse can no longer summon the love and compassion to help the CSA victim. 

Thank you for your sincere wishes for us and our marriage. I know we have a long, long road ahead of us.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It is probably challenging for anyone who has had years of emotional battering and is a sensitive enough man to internalize his wife's judgement and come out of it with the wherewithal to be emotionally supportive.*He has suddenly been released from a prison created by his marriage, he is not likely to have much sympathy for the jailer.* They both need compassion and gentle loving care but at is point , neither of them have enough to give anything.
> 
> A therapist with experience treating adult abuse victims bad their spouses is need to help them.
> 
> ...


Catherine, what I have bolded above in your quote is very, very powerful to me. It says in a nutshell what I am feeling. The "prison term" however is not complete for me. I now willfully submit to more "time" but can only do so if I see regular progress with my wife and her healing.

The prison for me is our marriage that has failed on the most basic of levels. Oh, yeah, we are still TOGETHER. But the relationship has failed on many, many levels. Neither one of us are getting our needs met by the other (but we are getting a little better--although she is stalled out right now). The root cause of this (by in large anyway) is my wife's failure to reveal her CSA when she should have--very, very early in our marriage.

It would have been so much easier back then. I would not have all my feelings of anger, frustration and resentment to deal with on top of trying to help her heal. It really compounds the difficulty of the healing process.

You are right about the perpetrators of CSA mostly getting off free. My wife's abuser intimitated and terroized her severely.

But, he got his. He was killed in a hit and run "accident". I say "accident" because the local authorities took a "we're better off without him" attitude and really didn't look very hard for the driver of the car that killed him. I suspect some other little girls father was told of his abuse and took care of it in his own way AND that the authorities knew he was a pervert. If it had been my little girl, I'm not sure I would not have done anything differently.

I have offered to go with my wife to his grave and spray paint "Child molester" on his stone--I know that seems childish, but if it will help her heal I'm up for breaking a few laws.

She can't "confront" him. I thought this might be a way she could. She may still want to some day. Eventually she needs to forgive him to heal completely, but that day is a long ways off, I fear. She has to go through all the stages in her own time.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Hell yes a spouse absolutely should tell before.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

After reading this thread and pondering over it for a few days, I just may break down and let my husband know. I'm not quite sure when and how, but the intention is there. I'm completely over it and have been for years. 

One of the main reasons for not telling him is that it was blocked out of my memory for years. This incident has not effected my marriage or sex life whatsoever. My husband and I have a wonderful intimate sex life. We make love several times a week. It's a fabulous gift between my husband and I.

I'm not quite sure how he will react. This is not a pleasent subject at all. I don't want him pondering over this in the back of his mind constantly. I do not want him looking at me differently. I do not want our sex life/making love to change. My husband IS my best friend. We have a very strong bond with each other. I have completely healed, but not forgiven the guy who did this to me.

The only way this has effected me now is how I raise my children. I keep a watchful eye on them 24/7. I know where they are at all times. We meet every single parent before we decide if they are decent enough to let our children stay a few hours, that includes my 17 year old as well. I'm a very strict parent. I do carry a little resentment towards my mother and wonder why she did not keep a better watchful eye when I was younger. She claims to be the "perfect" parent. Nobody is perfect. My mother tells me that I need to let my girls have more freedom. Only if she knew the real reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

IILWMH, I admire your courage.

How will he react? There is no way to know. It sounds like he loves you very much and you have a good marriage, so that is a very good starting point.

I went through a whole range of emotions, and still do 4 months later though it isn't nearly the wild ride it was at first. Remember that for him it is NEW news not something from decades ago like it is for you.

I initially felt deep sadness for my wife that she went through the terrible experiences as a young child. I also felt great sadness for all the years that she suffered silently. We had a lot of marital problems through the years, and so I have mourned the loss of all those years for both of us. 

Expect your husband to feel a lot of sadness.

I also feel more love for my wife. I think it is an intimacy thing, where she has told me something very personal and difficult.

In my case there was also a big sense of relief that so many unexplainable things over the years now made sense. Without knowing you in person I can't say if it will apply to you at all. One thing I noticed about my wife was a strong drive to lavish the kids with stuff and perfect family events. She internalizes this far more than necessary. Not that it is crazy or even harmful, but now I understand it. Just like your protectiveness isn't crazy or harmful, but your husband may feel that it has been a bit more than average. Expect that he may make some spontaneous comments about how some things now make sense.

Don't take any of this personally! Remember that he loves you and he still will.

I have never had a thought about my wife being dirtied, shameful, or anything else due to her abuse. She was a victim. Period. Whatever was done to her and no matter what kind of blame she may put on herself, I only see her as a victim of a sick adult. She is not diminished in any way in my view. Certainly I do not in any way see her as less sexually. I do not think about what may have been done to her when we are having sex. In other words, I am not sexually repulsed in any way.

This is nothing, NOTHING like thinking about her as an adult being consensually sexual with her previous lovers. No man likes to hear his wife talk (fondly) about previous lovers. Yes we feel jealousy and never want to think about another man being sexual with our wife or our wife doing sexual things to another man. Abuse is NOTHING like this. Whether it is childhood abuse or rape as a teen or even some kind of sick abuse in a marriage. I hope this makes sense to you.

I obviously have some anger. First and by far the largest it is at her perp. He must have been a sick twisted sorry excuse for human slime to abuse a young child. His evil harmed her and I am sure many other young girls. His evil has touched the lives of many loved ones of the direct victims. I have had violent thoughts, especially in the early weeks of knowing about the abuse. I would never act on the thoughts, but the anger was real and it still is though not nearly as volatile.

In terms of my wife not telling me before, it sounds like your marriage and situation is very much better than mine. I definitely feel betrayed. Obviously as this thread shows I am angry at her because a lot of damage was done to me, to us, and to her by her secrecy. It sounds like that is not a worry for you.

But I also feel betrayed as a husband. It is my JOB to support my wife and to help her through anything no matter how tough. If I could somehow take the burden from her I would in an instant. I just want to hug her all the time to show her my love and my desire to help her in any way possible, though I know that it would not be taken in a positive way if I hugged her every time I wanted to! She actually apologized for "dumping all this" on me. It is in no way dumping on me! It is my responsibility and my desire to take on the difficult stuff. Men are dragon slayers, we want to take on the challenges and kill them.

So expect your husband to feel some sense of sadness, disappointment, or perhaps even betrayal that you never told him before. This is out of his desire to be your support and protector, not out of anything else.

I don't feel any need to know details of what happened during the abuse. Other men I have talked to in person or read on forums say the same thing. But if it helps my wife to tell then I want her to tell me, no matter how ugly or difficult it may be to hear the details. So imo you should feel free to divulge as much or as little about the actual events as you want to insofar as it helps you.

I have to run now, but if you have any questions for me I would be happy to answer them. Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving.


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## Patricia B. Pina (Nov 22, 2011)

You are pushing her.
Don't push people to talk.
Show her that she can trust you first.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

A couple of other thoughts. First, it has to be safe for him to tell you how he feels and what his thoughts are. You have to be ready for this or else you should not tell him yet. I can only give you my personal thoughts on this, and as you can see from my posts I do love my wife and want only for her to be happy. But it isn't easy to find out that she has suffered such a trauma. If you don't feel you can handle your husband telling you how he feels about it, you shouldn't tell him yet.

Also, there is a good online support site at aftersilence.org. There are forums private only to those who identify as being an abuse survivor. You can chat with other survivors to learn what they have experienced with revealing their abuse to a spouse. I hope that your husband will feel about you and the abuse the way I and JustaMan2 do, but the other survivors over at aftersilence can perhaps give you a fuller perspective.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Patricia B. Pina said:


> You are pushing her.
> Don't push people to talk.
> Show her that she can trust you first.


Can you explain this more?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Thor said:


> A couple of other thoughts. First, it has to be safe for him to tell you how he feels and what his thoughts are. You have to be ready for this or else you should not tell him yet. I can only give you my personal thoughts on this, and as you can see from my posts I do love my wife and want only for her to be happy. But it isn't easy to find out that she has suffered such a trauma. If you don't feel you can handle your husband telling you how he feels about it, you shouldn't tell him yet.
> 
> Also, there is a good online support site at aftersilence.org. There are forums private only to those who identify as being an abuse survivor. You can chat with other survivors to learn what they have experienced with revealing their abuse to a spouse. I hope that your husband will feel about you and the abuse the way I and JustaMan2 do, but the other survivors over at aftersilence can perhaps give you a fuller perspective.


Thank you for your support. These last 13 years(married 12) my husband has given me nothing but love, support, friendship, companionship, understanding, patients, ect... The list could go on forever. I broke my neck just over 3 years ago and he has done nothing, but support and help me through this. Luckily I can walk and still use my legs, but not long distances. The pain is horrid and he has always stood by my side with love. I recently written him a letter thanking him for everything he has done and for being such a fabulous father to our children. My husband and I are emotionally and physically connected on every level possible. I'm a very lucky woman to have him in my life. I do whatever I can to fulfill his needs. He certainly deserves the best!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I did tell my husband last night. We went to the store to buy chicken feed and supplies without the girls along. He was shocked, but concerned. I did not get into details about what happened. He want's me to tell my mother, but I won't go there. Then the entire world would know. I have zero trust in my mother. I do have some resentment towards my mother, she believes that she was the "perfect" parent. My mother is always putting me down and one of the issues is she says I'm too strict in raising my children. That I need to allow them a little more freedom.

He did ask why I am bringing this up now, 13 years later. I told him the truth, that I've had it blocked out of my memory and I soon plan to block it out again. I think I'm very lucky to of overcome such horrible experiences. I'm very grateful that this does not effect my marriage in any way. My husband and I have a fabulous relationship. I trust my husband with my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

:smthumbup: Iilwmh. It sounds like you are both lucky to have each other. I hope this gets a weight off of your shoulders to have opened up to him about the abuse and that you can jettison the memories forever now.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

ILWMH--Congratulations!!! That's a HUGE step and I do hope your husband appreciates how difficult that was for you to do. I hope he thanks you now and many, many times in the future.

EVEN if it was not a problem--it shows trust on your part and that is huge in marriage.

Again, congratulations!!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Thank you Thor and JustAMan2. It wasn't until this thread that triggered those horrid memories. I was afraid of my husband looking at me differently and our sex frequency would decrease upon telling him. That wasn't the case. He hasn't brought up the issue since we talked about it. I will never ever forgive what was done, but I will be able to block it out and live a normal healthy life again.

Fully trusting my husband has really helped me get through a lot of life's issues these last 13 years. It's better then having a "girl" best friend, because I know for a fact that he will keep my secrets and not tell a soul. My husband is very good with recognizing my feelings and when I'm having a bad day for whatever reason. Instead of ignoring me or leaving me alone to think things over, he talks to me to finds out what is making me feel bad/sad/angry and works hard to make me feel better. He is very affectionate and better then any "girl" best friend I've ever had. I'm so very lucky to have him in my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Thank you Thor and JustAMan2. It wasn't until this thread that triggered those horrid memories. I was afraid of my husband looking at me differently and our sex frequency would decrease upon telling him. That wasn't the case. He hasn't brought up the issue since we talked about it. I will never ever forgive what was done, but I will be able to block it out and live a normal healthy life again.
> 
> Fully trusting my husband has really helped me get through a lot of life's issues these last 13 years. It's better then having a "girl" best friend, because I know for a fact that he will keep my secrets and not tell a soul. My husband is very good with recognizing my feelings and when I'm having a bad day for whatever reason. Instead of ignoring me or leaving me alone to think things over, he talks to me to finds out what is making me feel bad/sad/angry and works hard to make me feel better. He is very affectionate and better then any "girl" best friend I've ever had. I'm so very lucky to have him in my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


...and your husband is very blessed man to have you for a wife.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> JustAMan2 and Thor...
> 
> Just exactly how did you expect your wives to tell you she was abused? I am really curious to know how that conversation would go...
> 
> ...


Hi Iwant2bhappy ~

I'm sorry for the abuse and trauma that you have suffered in your life.

Are you in any kind of counseling to try and help you learn to cope with and recover from your abuse?

You just sound so dispirited and angry in some of your posts, and I hope that you can seek and find some solace and relief, so that you truly can be happy. But, it all starts with you - taking those first steps to remove the chains that have bound you.

Best wishes.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> JustAMan2 and Thor...
> 
> Just exactly how did you expect your wives to tell you she was abused? I am really curious to know how that conversation would go...
> 
> ...


IWantToBeHappy,

First of all let me just express to you my deep sorrow at what was done to you. No one, I mean NO ONE deserves that. I am so very, very sorry that a jerk (criminal) did those unspeakable things to you.

How would the conversation go? Simply put, it's just information sharing. I realize the information itself is NOT simple to share emotionally, but the process of sharing information is really quite simple. Vocal, written, electronic, however it's done, it's really quite simple.

When I began to ask my wife why her sexual responses were always negative, it was time for her to speak up and say..."You know it might be possible that something that happened to me when I was a little girl is affecting me now. Can I tell you about it?" Remember, I was not being a cold hearted accusatory husband. I was just asking "Why?" In a kind manner, with tenderness, with compassion, but yet not realizing that CSA was a possible answer. No one, unless they are exposed to it one way or another, goes THERE in their mind. It's so far from "normal" in my world it never entered my thinking until my friend, who herself was abused, said to me..."I see things in your wife--I recognize them...ask her directly if she was abused. I did...and she lied, not once but several times before she FINALLY told me the truth.

As time went on in our marriage I DID put more and more pressure on her...I was searching for answers--it's what we humans do...we keep digging. The deeper we go the tougher the diggin gets. I guess I always KNEW there had to be an answer--but she made it out like I was the one with the problem. I was told I was a pervert for wanting sex with my wife!! I was told I was a sex addict for wanting sex more than once every 2 weeks. I was told that even discussing what I or she wanted in bed was perversion! When I would ask her if certain things felt good to her sexually she would get angry and say "Why do you want to know about how it feels to me?"

Why stay in my marriage? Because I am a Christian and I believe that I have to give this God-ordained union EVERYTHING I have. Even at great personal expense/sacrifice, emotional, monetary or whatever.

I COULD go find another woman and get what I need...but that's not WHO I AM as a man or a Christian. It's simply not an option for me.

My wife has not read these posts, but some--even most--of the things in these posts have been expressed to her at one time or another. Some things, she is just not ready to hear yet. It doesn't mean they aren't true, just that she is not a the stage of healing where she can "own" what she has brought into this marriage. I don't mean the actual abuse...for that was not on her--that was on the criminal--he did that TO HER, a helpless, powerless little girl (this makes me sick!!!). What I mean is the failure to be honest and transparent--that's what she brought into the marriage.

A healthy marriage cannot be built on anything less than honesty and transparency on the part of BOTH partners.

Marriage is not a contract...it's a covenant. It's not JUST rule keeping, "thou shalls...thou shalt nots". I was in covenant with my wife, but she was not in covenant with me. Marriage carries with it certain expectations, sexual satisfaction being one of them. Transparency and honesty being a couple others.

One doesn't have to read too much on this board and other forums to realize these great truths.

Again, I'm sorry that you were wounded so deeply. I'd like you to think about the possibility that it has fundamentally altered you. I agree that you have a right to be angry...but I would beg of you to direct that anger at the right person--the pervert who abused you!!! Maybe at the family who failed to protect you (as was the case with my wife). Don't direct your anger at your innocent husband. Don't take it out on him.

He really does NOT deserve that. You deserve to be better. You deserve to heal. He deserves that too in you as his wife. Enlist his help as your partner in healing.

IWantToBeHappy, do you TRULY want to be happy? Then you will have to speak up. You will have to tell someone, you will have to heal. It’s the only road.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> Thanks Enchantment...
> 
> Yes, I am in IC and will be starting with a support group soon.
> 
> I am a broken person. After reading this thread it has made me feel even worse, to the point of where I want to divorce my husband so he can find somebody better. The husbands deserve better then what us sexual abuse survivors are able to give. I have known this for a long time and wish I would have made him leave to find happiness elsewhere.


IWantToBeHappy,

My wife felt the same way. I've talked to several CSA survivors who all said the same thing. That they would like to divorce so their mate could find "true happiness". My own wife has said this to me on more than one occasion.

But I don't want that. I don't want her to "run me off", even though I think she has actually tried many, many times. Yes, I will admit there are times, in the heat of the difficulty, when I would ponder such things, but over all--no!!!

It's not about what we husbands "deserve". It's about the CSA victim getting help and healing. See, divorce is the easy way out. It's MUCH easier than healing!! But I'm told the healed marriage on the other side is stronger, better and so worth it. It's probably what your husband wants...not another woman or relationship or marriage.

I'm glad to hear you are getting help. You will need the help of your husband. He needs to try to understand what you are going though and help you. In order to do that, he will need to know what both of you are up against. 2 cords are stronger than one. Make him your ally!! YOU ARE WORTH IT!!! The criminal stole that self-respect from you. But YOU ARE WORTH IT!!! 

I'll bet your husband feels the same way. But he is very wounded too. I know I felt a great sense of relief when my wife told me the truth. I got us help RIGHT AWAY (the next morning). I bought her a very expensive bracelet the next day and gave it to her to symbolize our new beginning. It's her favorite piece of jewelry.

Best wishes and prayers for you.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I had a response but I think it's best not to post it. 
My incredibly diplomatic response is to stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about what you can do to help the woman you love.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Spouse has a right to know i can see why it would be very hard for one to bring up past sexual abuse. This issue i am really torn on because being abused does not mean that they will be a liar or cheat on you those are way different issues.

Keeping secrets and lying is what ruins marriages so people bring that upon themselves you must also consider and fault yourself in improper judgement if you partner is incapable of being loyal.


sexual abuse is a tricky issue i am not sure how i would act if i found out years in. I would be concerned not mad that she did not tell me more concerned and feeling bad. However there would exist some desire that you wish you knew ahead of time. The sexual abuse stuff likely does not come out till someone truly trust's another person.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> JustAMan2 and Thor...
> 
> Just exactly how did you expect your wives to tell you she was abused? I am really curious to know how that conversation would go...
> 
> ...


:iagree:

so that is why its tricky they are thinking more so on the wishing they should of known. Now there are some things you should never hide or lie about before marriage and during marriage. Actually you should not lie period in marriage i think the only exception is to not ever say "oh you look fat" so lie if she asks if she has gained weight or looks fat. And for women if he ever asks' you about if you have had better sex before or something with penis size NEVER say penis is not your ideal penis. 

Everything else you should tell the truth, tell the truth if you cheat if you dont god will judge you even more and even more will the devil infect you. Tell them about your SEXUAL PAST (not includes sexual abuse) 

Do not lie about if you were ever promiscuous or not do not like about any disease, do not lie about number of partners, do not lie about true sexual desires. Do not lie about past drug use or anything of that sort.



However with sexual abuse the victim is surely traumatized and has had to live there whole life with this. The pain and the pain of not telling anyone in addition to the thoughts coming back to there mind and perhaps being afraid,ashamed, embarrassed that it happened to them. They do not want to feel that vulnerable to a spouse and i think only when someone really trust the other person do they tell. Once they do tell they than have to deal with the fact there spouse knows and can imagine them in pain and can now think of the abuse they have had. That can bother the abused person. Ideally you would tell your spouse before marriage or early on in the marriage but i can see how it might be to painful and when dating you are afraid it might turn them away from you. 

Your husband i think should be more considerate if he has not already. You were the one abused and hurt 

best of luck


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> For the both of you...I am on the other side. I am the broken wife/person that never told and has lived this miserable life. My husband has lived/lives in your shoes also. He even suspected it, just like you did.
> 
> But, I still don't believe it is an obligation to have to tell ANYONE!!


Iwant2bhappy, I am so sorry for what you have been through. Justaman2 did a much more eloquent job at saying what I would like to say to you, which is that no child should go through what you did. You do deserve better out of life than what you have experienced.

I don't have the privacy to type a full response to your question of how (or even when) my wife could have told me. I will answer later today or tomorrow.

The concept of an obligation to inform somebody of your abuse experience is one which is a truly irreconcilable difference between survivors and non-survivors. I do agree that you have no obligation to tell people, but you do have a responsibility to your partner and marriage. When issues start popping up which affect the marriage, it is a person's responsibility to honestly work to resolve those issues.

As a spouse who has experienced the time-delayed effects of abuse on a marriage, I can see that the information would have made an enormous difference in both of our lives had it been shared prior to the wedding. I think this is part of what leads to the irreconcilable difference, because the secondary survivor is unable to even consider certain avenues to explore without knowing the facts.

Not everything bad in a marriage is due to one person's history. The abuse survivor is not "at fault" for the bad marriage. Even with the information I may have done some things very wrong in our relationship. My half of the dysfunction is completely separate from hers, so I would have still brought problems.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> Just...
> 
> My story: We married young. I was 19 and pregnant. I think I can honestly say I was never "In Love" with my husband (I loved him but not "In Love"). Though he "Loved" and was "In Love" with me.
> 
> ...


Healing is very, very difficult. You have taken some first steps and I would encourage you to not stop now.

Your husband may wish to read the book "Haunted Marriage". It's for HIM, not you. It will help him understand his role in your healing.

I hope you want to be better. I hope you want your marriage to be better. The first few months after my wife told me were very difficult. She had flashbacks, nightmares, all kinds of stuff. That "junk" has settled down now, but she still has issues with trust, intimacy, honesty, transparency etc. It's a work in progress.

The fact that you spent so much time learning to understand why sex is so important to your husband is encouraging. You obviously care for him a great deal.

My wife has asked me several times, "Why are you still here after everything I've put you through." There is no one simple answer. But the bottom line is, she is worth it. It sounds like your husband feels you are too. Take comfort in that.

Hang in there.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

stritle said:


> :iagree:
> speaking as a guy with a past, nobody has a "right" to anything inside my head
> if i choose to give it to them, so be it.


...and if you chose not to tell your mate and it becomes a MAJOR logjam in your marriage? I mean to the point where your spouse feels that you find them sexually repulsive??

...still "OK" with that? Where is your sense of compassion for your mate?

I don't know about you, but if it's ME with the problem, I'm not OK with sitting by and letting my spouse take the fall for my junk. Even though original CSA was not caused by the innocent victim, it is "theirs" in that they brought it to the marriage bed without disclosure--or failed to disclose it when problems came up that drastically interfered with the marriage relationship.

Marriage comes with a set of responsibilities. If one mate can't function in the marriage to fulfill those responsibilities then it becomes their responsibility to do all they can to heal. They will most certainly need the help of their mate, and they need to enlist it.

The weird thing about CSA is that the victim very often blames the innocent spouse for the problems. Granted, that is easier than healing, but it's still not the right thing to do.

We all have "junk" we bring into a marriage. I maintain it's best to be honest about it. At minimum the things that have the potential to destroy the marriage!!


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> However with sexual abuse the victim is surely traumatized and has had to live there whole life with this. The pain and the pain of not telling anyone in addition to the thoughts coming back to there mind and perhaps being afraid,ashamed, embarrassed that it happened to them. They do not want to feel that vulnerable to a spouse and i think only when someone really trust the other person do they tell. Once they do tell they than have to deal with the fact there spouse knows and can imagine them in pain and can now think of the abuse they have had. That can bother the abused person. Ideally you would tell your spouse before marriage or early on in the marriage but i can see how it might be to painful and when dating you are afraid it might turn them away from you.
> ...


I would respectfully disagree. There are a number of people on this board who are not just CSA victims, but have healed and are what I call CSA survivors. Ask them. Ask them if life was better BEFORE they opened up about their abuse and got help and healing or if their life was better afterwards.

I do agree that it is MOST difficult and very, very painful to talk about this. Part of the dynamic of CSA is that the victim feels shame and embarrassment even though they are clearly not at fault.

It's like Thor said, there is a disagreement between the CSA victim and the "secondary survivor", meaning the spouse (who in their own right is being abused as well) as to whether or not a mate should share. I dare not compare that to the victims childhood abuse--but it is abuse none-the-less. At least it was and still is in my marriage. But NOW I KNOW WHY and I am equipped to deal with it. 

That's the key!!!! Just as Thor pointed out in his last post.

But, again, I challenge you to talk to victims WHO HAVE HEALED. Ask them. Was it better before, or after sharing that information AND getting the help AND healing.

I've talked to several. All agree it was better afterwards. For them AND their spouse.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Voyager said:


> I don't think you have a 'right' for that information.
> 
> You seem to blame your unhappy sex life on the abuse rather than her inability to successfully deal with issues arising from it. That makes it sound like you would have (or currently do) considered her damaged goods. Why would she disclose such information if she thought it made her less valuable in your eyes?


I could not disagree more with the first statement. Anything that is pre-existing and even potentially impactful to the marriage needs to be made known. That includes health issues.

Was the OP's wife suffering from a health issue? Absolutely yes! She had suffered an emotionally / mentally damaging event that certainly can (and in fact did) seriously harm her ability to meet her marital responsibility. (I know this is a controversial position).

She committed a lie of omission. She knows what is expected of marriage, knew (or should have known) that her ability to meet that was questionable, and still married him. She should have told about this out of respect and integrity. Honest people do not promisewhat they cannot provide - it really is that simple.

You ironically point out the error in your argument. Yes she can get therapy to overcome her issues and / or she can just push through her discomfort. The problem is that many women are not willing to do either. In this case, it was 20+ years and likely because he refused to accept a bad sex life.

Many times people do not (or cannot, depending on your point of view) work to overcome these issues. They simply expect their partners to accomodate them, or they walk away. That is why prior disclosure is a must.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> The first few months after my wife told me were very difficult. She had flashbacks, nightmares, all kinds of stuff. That "junk" has settled down now, but she still has issues with trust, intimacy, honesty, transparency etc. It's a work in progress.


My experience is the opposite. We went into a honeymoon phase after she decided to try. (recap: After I approached her wanting marriage counseling it took her 12 days to start wearing her wedding rings again). Then it was a slow decline. This is a real re-run of our relationship from the beginning. Lots of great uninhibited sex at first, then she started having significant emotional difficulties with sex as things got serious. Now we're back to nearly no sex and she is distracted and pulled away emotionally all the time.




JustAMan2 said:


> The weird thing about CSA is that the victim very often blames the innocent spouse for the problems. Granted, that is easier than healing, but it's still not the right thing to do.


I think there is a lot to that, but it goes a lot deeper. I was willing to blame myself because she seemed so normal and free spirited when we were dating. So it must have been my fault that she was having such difficulties with sexual and emotional intimacy.

I don't think she had any idea early in our marriage that her problems were related to her CSA. My counselor told me that she herself did not realize that her dissociation during sex in her marriage was at all related to her CSA. She thought it was _normal_ for a married woman to have those kinds of feelings and problems, and that they were due to relationship issues. With time she realized how abnormal their sex life was. With therapy she realized how much her CSA was influencing her even when she did not consciously think of the CSA.

My wife knew that her CSA was a problem later when she was in a period of active nightmares and flashbacks. She also avoided marriage therapy at that time when I was pushing for it. At times she obviously knew that her CSA was negatively impacting me, yet she rationalized it somehow as ok.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DTO said:


> Was the OP's wife suffering from a health issue? Absolutely yes! She had suffered an emotionally / mentally damaging event that certainly can (and in fact did) seriously harm her ability to meet her marital responsibility. (I know this is a controversial position).
> 
> She committed a lie of omission. She knows what is expected of marriage, knew (or should have known) that her ability to meet that was questionable, and still married him. She should have told about this out of respect and integrity. Honest people do not promise what they cannot provide - it really is that simple.


The first part I agree with.

The second part I agree with also, but it isn't that simple. In my wife's case and in others that I am familiar with, she learned at an early age that it was safe and better to conceal the abuse. Perhaps a parent or teacher disbelieved her story. Perhaps she was ridiculed and blamed for the abuse. Whatever it was, she learned that it was _good to lie about it_.

The young child grows up but does not unlearn this lesson. My wife carried this into the marriage, and in fact generalized the lesson into believing that secrecy and lies in a marriage are morally acceptable if they protect somebody.

Yes she knew what the words were that were coming out of her mouth when she said the marriage vows, but they meant something very different to her than to me or anyone else in the church that day. I don't believe she had any idea that her interpretation or belief system was atypical.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> How does someone feeling ashamed about having been abused and endured sexual abuse "destroy the lives of people that love them?"  Wow, so the victim of sexual abuse isn't allowed to feel hurt/ashamed of what happened to them?


I know this is an older thread, but - seriously? Maybe we differ on how much disruption inflicted on another person's life is okay.

The OP's wife is indeed allowed to be hurt about what happens to her, but she is not allowed to inflict that hurt on her husband and make him an unwilling co-victim. That is where the line should be drawn.

The OP's wife, rather than get help for her issues, chose to get married in an unhealthy state. Her husband paid for this with 23 years (at least) of a bad sex life and probably many more years before she gets herself healthy (if ever). In other cases, either the victim or the spouse ends the marriage because the victim simply is unable to get it together and provide sexually, leaving behind devastated children, wasted years, etc.

Now, is anybody "destroyed" here? Not in the strictest sense of the word, but there will be a legacy of pain and baggage to overcome. I really do sympathize with the victims, but there is no benefit they can obtain for being married that is worth the pain they will inflict to others coming into a situation unhealthy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy, best of luck to you.

Please keep in mind that your husband also contributed equally to the problems in your marriage. You are not solely responsible for either the good or the bad in your marriage.

I hope you find peace soon.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jayde said:


> I'm still troubled by the talk that somehow the non-abused spouse has become the victim since the abused victim didn't get their act together before marrying.


Actually, it's quite simple. If I get married to someone who cannot meet her sexual responsibility, I have two bad choices:

1) Walk out and find someone else.
2) Stick around and hope that she finds the courage to get help and that some day the sex life will be at least adequate.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you are a low drive person and don't think sex is important, you aren't going to see a bad sex life as a sacrifice and aren't going to feel that the sposue has been victimized to a meaningful degree.

And even this assumes that the fallout of the abuse hasn't trickled down to non-sexual parts of the marriage (as in the victim does not harbor general resentment towards the opposite gender and can parent effectively).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I have not read all of these replies on here, but my heart goes out to the original poster JustAMan 2, I feel you are an amazing man for sticking it out all of these years as you have done.... I can not even begin to imagine how difficult this must have been on you ..... I don't feel I could have done it -had I been in such shoes, even for a very short period of time.... I am with every poster on here who believes these things should be discussed before marriage..... when you marry someone, and commit your life to them, 2 are joined to be ONE , their issues become YOUR issues. *You had a right to know*.....so help could be had earlier on and avoided all the pain that led up to now. 

I am of the belief .... burying our issues is never never never helpful in this life.

I see you both as victims here. 


Sawney Beane put this link in your 1st reply.. Married Man Sex Life: Skeletons In The Sexual History Closet

on this issue .....


> Prior sexual abuse. This one is really awkward for me to talk about because I feel like I'm victimizing the victim again, but I feel I have to go there anyway. In 10-15% of the email I get from men in sexless marriages, the men are married to a woman that had been either raped or sexually abused at some point prior to him. Once married the typical pattern is that their sex life ends extremely quickly, save a few bursts of her sexual interest to become pregnant, before lapsing into nothing again. This is not what the guy signs up for. Sexual abuse and rape is not an automatic rule out of contention, but sexual abuse trauma needs to be dealt with before entering into a lifetime sexual agreement.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

We can pontificate all we want that people should fully disclose all there is to know about themselves, good or bad, prior to marriage.

However, the reality is that someone who has been abused, sexual or otherwise, especially as a child, will have much greater chances of not growing and developing in an emotionally healthy way whereby they would simply not be able to disclose this information. They may not even realize until a very long time later what a tremendous impact their abuse may have in shaping their lives and relationships.

Therefore, I think it is a waste of precious time and resource to blame the abused for not being able to live up to some supposed obligation to disclose. Accept that they often could not disclose at the point you got married. Accept that they could not until a point in time that they were ready to face it.

Instead, employ your powers of empathy and compassion in the here and now to help support your spouse to overcome their demons, and well and truly let your regrets and hurts go about the past in much the same way the abused must. Otherwise, the both of you will not be able to move forward. Forgive your abused spouse for not being able to tell you in times past and move forward.

Wishing you all the best.


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## faithnhope (Feb 18, 2012)

jayde said:


> I think the assumption is that the W had dealt with/was dealing with her sexual abuse and was at a point that she could effectively and safely discuss it with a future spouse. That's a lot of assumptions. I was not able to confront things that happened to me until my 40s. I don't think this means that I was dishonest to anyone. For the next wife, ask for a full psychological eval before saying 'I do.'
> 
> It would seem from these posts that those who have not had any of this in their past will not understand.
> 
> ...


I have to agree. Those who survive abuse often times don't know how to deal with it for several years. I am a survivor myself and have also did counseling with others. It is usually when a survivor feels safe and at peace that repressed issues surface. Its defense mechanisms 101. It is tragic for the survivor and for the partner but when you blame a survivor for not divulging his/her history, you are saying that him/her didn't handle their trauma the way you think they should have. Most abuse is about power and control so it is relatively easy to assume that most survivors will have difficulty with issues related to power/control. Sex is one of those issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> Do you even know what you are even talking about?


Absolutely I do. I was a co-victim / "secondary survivor" / whatever label for the entire 16 years of my marriage. As I have noted elsewhere, my admitted some issues prior to marriage but downplayed their severity and falsely promised that she would be able to provide for me sexually.

Turns out she was just doing the minimum to keep me, promised better, and instead things got worse from the get-go. She did not consider that she would have to work hard to overcome it. She eventually admitted she never had the desire but assumed things would change after marriage and noted that fixing her issues was not worth the effort.

So how did the marriage go? When the desire did not emerge, she decided early on that she would deny and then blame-shift - anything as long as she did not have to honor her commitment or suffer any consequences from her failure to do so. It was not until I pressed the issue that the truth came out. Besides that, it was basically occasional pity sex (1x month avg) with occasional periods of long-term refusal.

I know how it goes. I've read up (much of it on boards like this). From what I've read spouses rarely do a 180 and get completely healthy. Many attempt to get help and find it too hard. Many tolerate their dysfunction and avoid sexual situations. And some are angry their spouses will not accept a bad sex life. My ex was ok being inadequate but resented my desire. She did not care that me just "accepting it" was solving the wrong problem.

I don't get why you're opposed to what I said. We both agree that this should be disclosed prior to marriage. You are fairly lucky your wife admitted the truth and seemingly is trying to do better. Maybe our different outcomes impact our perspectives.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

faithnhope said:


> It is tragic for the survivor and for the partner but when you blame a survivor for not divulging his/her history, you are saying that him/her didn't handle their trauma the way you think they should have.


Disagree. Personally, I did not have an issue with how my wife handled her abuse. What I did have issue with was her coming into the marriage knowing she could not meet the basic needs.



faithnhope said:


> Most abuse is about power and control so it is relatively easy to assume that most survivors will have difficulty with issues related to power/control. Sex is one of those issues.


That is exactly my point. It's fairly forseeable that survivors will have sex issues. It might seem cynical, but I think an earlier poster had it right: abuse victims know they are likely to be seen as less desireable. I would go further and say the greater the distress, the more likely the victim will hide the abuse.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> If my wife had no memory of the abuse or thought she was completely over it, then it would have been no big deal for her to answer a YES when I asked her THREE TIMES if she had been abused or raped. In any case, once she realized she was having serious problems after we were married it was her duty to inform her spouse.


I really agree with this.

I would add that I was not put out so much by the failure to tell me per se. It is more the fact that she knew she had not overcome it, and would not bother to fix it, that was the real problem.

Later on, I came to understand that it's understood most abuse survivors have these sorts of issues. If it such common knowledge, I have a hard time believing that the abuse survivors themselves don't believe it to be a problem. That is where I came to believe that full disclosure is essential.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

priclesspearl said:


> And FWIW, behaviour does not have to be malicious to qualify as abusive. At the heart of any type of abuse is the depersonalization of the the victim. The abuser does not see the other person as someone with their own indepent life, desires, thoughts and feelings. Which is why it is so easy to put one's own emotional comfort ahead of whatever pain the behaviour may cause the victim. I know in my case, I existed only as a coping mechanism for my ex. I don't think he was tryng to hurt me, but his experiences made it impossible for him see me or our relationship in any way except as a way for him to deal with his issues. I was his "dumping ground".


Agree. Likewise, I existed as a way for my ex to have a home and a good father for the kids she wanted. One of her friends tried to tell me indirectly, as in "what do you think of this friend I have - she does not like sex and got married to have kids".


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> I am the wife and the abused.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gotcha. I think I got part of your post confused with someone elses.

I do truly sympathize with what you endured in the past.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey everybody, it's me, the OP.

To be clear, I want to say again that I realize that sometimes CSA victims have REPRESSED memories. They honestly don't know why they act the way they do. It isn't until the memories are "triggered" and come flooding back that the pieces begin to fall into place for the victim.

This was NOT the case with my wife, and several others however.

My wife, after telling me of what she endured as a little girl, confessed that she KNEW ALL ALONG (for 23 years of marriage) that the problems in our marriage--I speak here of the sexual ones--but there were others related to her CSA too--MOSTLY came from her side of the bed. 

I realize that I brought my own "junk" to the bed too--we all do. 

The difference was that I sat my bride-to-be down ahead of time and offered to share with her my complete sexual past. She said she "didn't want to hear it" (that was a red flag that I didn't pick up on).

I want to say again that my PURPOSE in starting this thread was and still is: IF I can get one CSA victim who has not told their spouse WHY they are rejecting them or engaging in other unacceptable behaviors in their marriage...if by reading about what it's like to be in my shoes, or those of Thor or other secondary survivors...if that causes JUST one survivor to open up, start healing and move forward...then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

CSA survivors are deeply, deeply wounded and I don't want to minimize that in any way.

BUT...so are their spouses!!! It's time to end the cycle. It's time to speak up. It's time to heal.

My wife told me that when we were dating she fell really, really hard for me. She said that she honestly thought that because of her deep feelings of love for me that all the "junk" was behind her. 

I believe she genuinely felt that way. Who wouldn't want to put that "junk" behind them and move forward in a committed, loving marriage?

But it wasn't long (the honeymoon, actually!!!) until it became evident to her (I was clueless as to WHY but I knew SOMETHING was wrong) that she had not "moved on". She had the keys the whole time.

So, as I experienced rejection after rejection after rejection, as I searched for answers but got none, as I asked her questions, as I faced accusation after accusation that I was a pervert and there was something "wrong" with me...

What I'm saying is that with all that history in our marriage (and other things too) it's not as simple as just all of the sudden having the REAL truth and then turning off a light switch on all those feelings of rejection etc. that I experienced for 23 years. 

Just like her, I now have some serious scars. I'm not equating my scars to hers, but none-the-less...

SO...my main theme again is:

To CSA victims out there who have not yet told someone and sought healing: Stop putting yourself through this!! Stop putting your mate and your friends and your family through this!! You CAN and WILL be better. The answer lies not in covering it up or pretending it's all OK, the answer lies in getting it out and dealing with it in a healthy and productive way. Difficult??? Oh, yes, I won't lie to you here!!! Yes...very difficult!! Worth it??? YES!!!! SO worth it!!!

IF you are blessed with a mate that stayed with you in spite of you not speaking up, you can almost be assured they will stay, be your ally and help you heal, but they DO deserve a REAL mate. And YOU, as a victim, deserve to move on with your life as well.

My wife AVOIDED dealing with this problem for YEARS. It has been at TREMENDOUS cost to her, to me and to our marriage, just for starters.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> We can pontificate all we want that people should fully disclose all there is to know about themselves, good or bad, prior to marriage.
> 
> However, the reality is that someone who has been abused, sexual or otherwise, especially as a child, will have much greater chances of not growing and developing in an emotionally healthy way whereby they would simply not be able to disclose this information. They may not even realize until a very long time later what a tremendous impact their abuse may have in shaping their lives and relationships.
> 
> ...


Enchantment...you are exactly right. The CSA victim is broken at a very fundamental level. It makes it difficult for them to see that the only way to a better place is to "tell" and get help. They often bear much shame and embarrassment...not that those feelings are "correct", for the one who should feel them is the criminal who violated the child.

I want you to know that I AM employing my powers of compassion etc. with my wife. If you will read all my posts you will see how I reacted when she told me. The next morning--early--as in first thing--I got us into counseling. I support her in her I/C--although she has quit for now--and our couples counseling (she has quit this for now as well). I don't mean I just pay for it, I mean I support her!! If she asks me for something, and I, as the healthy mate, conclude that it will help her and us move forward, I try to the best of my ability to do it. 

Sometimes it's simple things, like "Hold me." or, "I just want to be held in such-and-such a way because it makes me feel safe." "Listen to me." (I do a lot of that!!!). 

I drove her to her sessions because she would be so "wrung out" afterwards that she didn't feel like driving--or didn't want to be alone.

I've taken her away for weekends or evenings where we agree not to discuss our problems, but just really enjoy each other as a couple. (I think married couples should do this anyway--but in particular those who are struggling with a difficulty.) Not ignoring the reality of the problems, but we all need a break.

I've read countless material on my role as her mate. I've talked to other victims, trying to understand what my wife needs.

My wife also made some really bad financial decisions and hid it from me--I'm helping her figure all that out--but my support doesn't end there. I've assumed responsibility for ALL our household bills until she can clear up the mess she made. Believe it or not it's ALL related to the abuse and her difficult family background.

My wife would NEVER have faced this issue and told me had it not been for the fact that she believed I was done with this marriage. I will admit that I was very, very frustrated and was considering whether separation would wake her up or not. But I was not yet to the point of considering divorce.

So, you see, it really wasn't HER that pushed us to this place where she will hopefully heal. It was me too. To compensate for my marriage, I buried myself in work. While it was good that I made some decent money there (we would now be bankrupt if not for that!!), it was not a good long-term "fix". I married a wife, I wanted a wife and a mate.

She was not "ready" to face this. I really, unknowingly, forced her into that decision. Like a drug addict or a drunk, they have to get to the place where the giving up of the bad behavior becomes the lesser of two evils. In my wife's case, continue living the lie or lose her husband (she believed). Part of that dynamic was the money...she was so far in debt that she believed she could have NEVER made it on her own (her thinking).

I WISH it had come from her. I think it would have been better if she had wanted to heal on her own. She still resents me for "forcing her hand" (in her mind).


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> Hey everybody, it's me, the OP.
> 
> To be clear, I want to say again that I realize that sometimes CSA victims have REPRESSED memories. They honestly don't know why they act the way they do. It isn't until the memories are "triggered" and come flooding back that the pieces begin to fall into place for the victim.
> 
> ...


Hi JustAMan ~

Have you been able to forgive your wife for not telling you in the beginning? Perhaps it is only me, but when I read some of the posts here there is an element of edginess, of bitterness, of resentment on the part of the abused's spouse.

Forgiveness is a powerful thing - it helps the one who is forgiving as much so, maybe even more so, than the one who is being forgiven.

_"Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future." - P Boese_

Hoping that you and your wife can make strides in your healing together.

Best wishes.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Hi JustAMan ~
> 
> Have you been able to forgive your wife for not telling you in the beginning? Perhaps it is only me, but when I read some of the posts here there is an element of edginess, of bitterness, of resentment on the part of the abused's spouse.
> 
> ...


Enchantment,

What I struggle with most is when my wife appears to "stall out" on her healing. That's difficult.

Just like when certain sounds, smells, actions etc. take her back to the "bad place" of her abuse, so do certain behaviors in my wife (or LACK of certain behaviors) take me to a bad place.

Again, I'm not equating her feelings with mine, but just trying to give you a sense of what it's like.

I do realize that healing, like so many other things in life, has an ebb and flow to it. Nothing may happen for a time, and then all of the sudden great strides will be taken, then nothing again for a time. Such is the nature of healing.

I guess to equate it to anything might be difficult to explain. But it's like a person who has been repeatedly struck. When anyone raises their hand/arm, they automatically flinch.

I "automatically" go to a not so good place when my wife does certain things, or DOESN'T do certain things. It's deeply entrenched after 23 years of not knowing. Now I do, but still, those feeling are there for me, and I know she has her own demons too because she's been in this hell for longer than 23 years.

I DO control how I ACT/REACT...what I am describing is what goes on inside.

To answer your question: Forgiveness, like healing, is a process. I'm on the road in that process. I'm in I/C to help me with that as well.

Thank you for your thoughts.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustaMan2, once again I could pretty much just say "ditto" to your posts.



JustAMan2 said:


> My wife, after telling me of what she endured as a little girl, confessed that she KNEW ALL ALONG (for 23 years of marriage) that the problems in our marriage--I speak here of the sexual ones--but there were others related to her CSA too--MOSTLY came from her side of the bed.
> 
> I realize that I brought my own "junk" to the bed too--we all do.
> 
> The difference was that I sat my bride-to-be down ahead of time and offered to share with her my complete sexual past. She said she "didn't want to hear it" (that was a red flag that I didn't pick up on).


Another interesting coincidence. About 2 months or so before the wedding I said to my wife "There's something I should tell you about myself", and I told her something about my sexual past which I thought important in terms of full disclosure, though it was nothing serious. She pretty much didn't say anything in response.




JustAMan2 said:


> CSA survivors are deeply, deeply wounded and I don't want to minimize that in any way.
> 
> BUT...so are their spouses!!! It's time to end the cycle. It's time to speak up. It's time to heal.
> .
> ...


It is ironic that spouses are being told to "just get over it" and "your emotional pain isn't important".




JustAMan2 said:


> Just like her, I now have some serious scars. I'm not equating my scars to hers, but none-the-less...


The scars cannot be equated, true. She experienced a few events as a child and has suffered some recurrent nightmares or flashbacks. She experienced unpleasantness during sex. My wife says she has been very good at compartmentalizing. I on the other hand have had daily rejections. I have worried and agonized and analyzed many many times over the years about what was wrong with me. Every time I sat down next to her and she moved away slightly. Every time I kissed her and she recoiled.

She experienced a few really bad moments and then has had some really bad moments as part of the fallout. We secondaries have had a slow constant simmer of injury. No the scars are not the same at all, but I don't think secondaries should be considered relatively _un-scarred_ in comparison.





JustAMan2 said:


> So, you see, it really wasn't HER that pushed us to this place where she will hopefully heal....She was not "ready" to face this. I really, unknowingly, forced her into that decision. Like a drug addict or a drunk, they have to get to the place where the giving up of the bad behavior becomes the lesser of two evils. In my wife's case, continue living the lie or lose her husband


Yes, same here. My wife told me when I approached her with the need for marriage therapy. She whipped out the info of being abused in some kind of desperation to keep me from leaving. Which is why she has not pursued IC, and she quit MC after 2 sessions.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> JustAMan2 and Thor...
> 
> Just exactly how did you expect your wives to tell you she was abused? I am really curious to know how that conversation would go...


Iwant2bhappy, I know you wrote this in pain. I am truly sorry for your suffering. This thread has almost taken on an Us vs. Them tone which I am not comfortable with because both sides are suffering. It really should be US, the survivors and the secondaries, vs THEM the perpetrators. We are all the victims of the perpetrators.

So with respect and no animosity I will answer your question.

I think she could have done it with the same words she used, only she should have done it 30 years sooner. She said "There's something I should tell you about myself. I was sexually abused as a child". Or words very very similar to that. Then she told me a little tiny bit, really only her age and that the perp was a non-family member neighbor. She told me of one coercion used by him to keep her silent.

She could have said this at any time, including the conversation I mentioned in my last post of when I disclosed a minor thing to her about my past.

She could have said "Yes, I was" in response to the 3 times I asked directly. Twice I asked if she had been molested, and once I asked if she had ever been raped. I asked because she was having a fairly strong conversation about the topic related to a course in college or a story on tv. I really had no idea about the issue, but she seemed quite invested in it, so I asked.

She could have told me that she was having nightmares after the first baby was born. She could have said that she thought the issues were behind her, but she was having flashbacks and nightmares related to something that was done to her as a small child.

Every day was an opportunity to tell me, either during good times or when there was a marital issue in play. She had over 11,000 opportunities to tell me but didn't.

As Justaman2 has so eloquently stated, the purpose of telling the spouse is so that both can heal and have as much happiness as possible, as soon as possible.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor said:


> Iwant2bhappy, I know you wrote this in pain. I am truly sorry for your suffering. This thread has almost taken on an Us vs. Them tone which I am not comfortable with because both sides are suffering. It really should be US, the survivors and the secondaries, vs THEM the perpetrators. We are all the victims of the perpetrators.
> 
> So with respect and no animosity I will answer your question.
> 
> ...


Thor,

Are you really me in an alternate universe? I asked my wife 3 times as well, and all three times she lied.

Her abuser/molester was a neighbor as well, much older than she was. He intimidated her by telling her that if she reported him to anyone he would kill her entire family. She was 7...she, of course, as any child would, believed him.

Certain TV shows etc. would bring out the worst in my wife. She was physically distant most of the time. 

My love language is "physical touch" and I am a fairly high drive man (within normal range, but on the high end of the scale for my age--but I'm not overweight; I lift weights, stay in shape, eat right and thankfully don't have to take any meds)--so my needs were (and still are) high and her desire to meet those needs was almost zero.

This all happened AFTER the wedding. Before the wedding, she couldn't get enough of me. Although a virgin when we married, she was none-the-less very sexual towards me before the marriage. After the marriage, I felt like she found me repulsive.

Like you Thor, I blamed myself (in addition to my wife blaming me). I read everything I could get my hands on to try to figure out what I was doing wrong. I wanted so much to have my wife open up to me sexually and be my true mate--to connect with her in that most intimate way.

But I was repelled almost constantly. After a while I just figured she found me repulsive sexually. BUT...she wouldn't tell me why...again, I just figured it was ME. As you might imagine I had some previous self-esteem issues and this didn't help any.

IWantToBeHappy...understand that I'm not being critical of you personally. I feel so much sorrow and pain for you and other victims of this terrible crime.

BUT...as with so many things in life, you are not the only one who has been hurt. I feel it's important for people like Thor and me to tell our stories here on this forum. 

It's not "us" versus "them" or "you". Not at all. As Thor stated so well, the enemy is the abuser/molester/criminal/pervert. He leaves a WIDE path of destruction that includes many more people than the person he abuses. Husbands, wives, children, grandchildren, family, friends...the list is endless ALL have suffered as a result.

We are not attacking you or other abuse victims. But we feel OUR story must be told too. I know in telling that story it FEELS like an attack to you, but it's not.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

JustAMan2 said:


> Thor,
> 
> Are you really me in an alternate universe?


Pretty much!

My wife was about the same age as yours. The perp was an adult neighbor friend of her parents. A married couple in fact, but I don't know if the wife was in on the abuse or not. The couple was childless but liked to babysit or have neighborhood kids over.  My wife's parents had no idea they were delivering their daughter to abusers when they walked her over there.

I know he used a kiss in front of her parents as a coercion. To this date my wife does not like kissing, I presume it is related.

Where you and I differ is my wife's response as a teen. She now says she was "promiscuous" as a teen, contrary to what she told me when we were dating and all along in our marriage. She always said she had been with 3 long term boyfriends in high school into freshman year of college. I met her in college. She won't say what she means by "promiscuous" now. Some things never added up in the past but I assumed she was basically honest in her disclosures, so the inconsistencies didn't bother me. An old letter from a high school boyfriend found recently really blows things out of the water in terms of promiscuity. I have been having a lot of difficulty processing what is said and implied in the letter.

Ironically, though, I was attracted to her adventurous sexuality when we were dating. After hearing comments about how married men have no sex, I was encouraged and felt lucky to have a fiance who enjoyed sex without hangups. The fact that she was apparently sexually uninhibited prior to the wedding led me to the same kind of conclusion you reached, that the wife was normal so it must be me that was defective.

My information and world view just did not include any real understanding of CSA back then. I made so many mistakes and wasted so much time.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

For someone to be able to talk about being abused shows where they are in the healing process. That your wife didn't talk about it just showed that she wasn't ready. Her not disclosing the abuse to you early on was an unhealthy reaction to the abuse. Meaning she obviously wasn't in a healthy place. And honestly pushing an abusee to do something they aren't ready to can cause more harm then good.

Yes it would have been a better idea to tell you that she was abused sooner. Yes that would have made things easier for you. But she obviously didn't know how to handle it and I think it's more important that she isn't pushed beyond her limits.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> JustAMan2 and Thor~
> 
> I do understand what you two are saying. I should have told him before we got married. Though, I was only 18 and pregnant and married at 19, I was a kid myself.
> 
> ...


IWant2BeHappy,

Don't beat yourself up over it, the key now is to heal and be all you can be for your husband and kids as you move forward.

My wife's molester/rapist is now dead too. He was killed by a hit-and-run driver. We suspect that he was molesting more than one girl. Perhaps one girl told and her dad or some other person took care of the problem. We suspect that because the police never REALLY looked all that hard for the person who did it. They just sort of took a report and that was that. We suspect that it was known in the community that he was a child molester and it was sort of a "good riddance" kind of thing.

I hope your husband will read the book "Haunted Marriage". It will help him understand that he plays a vital role in your healing.

Best of luck to you!! You have done a very difficult thing...I hope you can continue the work of healing.


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