# Please help referee this stupid fight



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I am hoping that a few people can read the details of this ridiculous argument my wife and I had yesterday. I am trying my best to make my marriage work but it is stuff like this that just has me thinking we are in such different worlds that there really is no chance.

In the morning, I phone my wife and ask her what plans she had for the evening. I am currently trying to drop a few pounds and am running 3+ nights a week. She said she had none, and asked what I had in mind. I told her today was a running day and I wanted to get running as soon as she got home so I had time to play with the kids after the run.

During the day, realizing that I have in essence asked her to do babysitting to facilitate my running, I offer via text to get one of the kids on the way home... trying to make life a little easier for her (and yes, selfishly, that would get her home quicker). She seemed happy with the offer.

I get home with one kid at 5:30...she generally gets home at 5:45. I get all ready to run (while the little one is watching tv), and wait. Now at about 6:00, I am confused, and I call her cell. She does not answer. Because the day care is closed at 6pm, I'm worried about my kid not being picked up on top of everything else. I call at 6:10...still no answer...now I am very worried, confused, and angry. Finally at 6:20, I call and she answered. 

I asked her if she was ok. She was puzzled and said she was. "I'll be home in 30 seconds.", she said. I got out in my car. As soon as she pulled in the driveway, I pulled out of it and raced to get to the field with the soft track. It had closed. I had to run on the harder track which hurts my knees a bit. 

When I got home, she said she was sorry... she had no recollection of me wanting to run. She said she took her time at the day care chatting with friends, and she left her cell in the car. She said she didn't know the track closes and she didn't realize there was a rush to be home on time. She said, "You need to tell me these things." When I tried to explain that the running situation itself didn't matter that much, but I wish she would just call as a courtesy in general when she is going to be late so I can live my life too, she then said she was very hurt that I drove off without talking with her when she got home. I countered that by asking her why she would expect courtesy from me when she does not provide any of her own to me. She said, "I was so mad, I almost asked you to move out."

We fought for a while, and tried to smooth things over. We didn't talk for the rest of the night.

I am just at a total loss. This is not the first time she "forgets" things. This is not the first time she has been unreachable via cell. This is definitely not the first time she has chosen to be late and not call. But most importantly, she has this habit of just completely forgetting I exist, and then getting completely ticked off at my reactions to being neglected.

Argh. Help. How can I stop these stupid fights? I really don't feel that it is unreasonable to expect some courtesy but if I'm off base, I'd really like to know.


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## mikey11 (May 31, 2011)

you are more at fault in my opinion....

you never gave her an exact time that you wanted to run did you?....so i can understand her agruement that she had no way of knowing she should have rushed home....

i also think it was very rude of you to not wait and at least say hi to her and you kid....running can wait for another day....your family might not....


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

mikey11 said:


> you are more at fault in my opinion....
> 
> you never gave her an exact time that you wanted to run did you?....so i can understand her agruement that she had no way of knowing she should have rushed home....
> 
> i also think it was very rude of you to not wait and at least say hi to her and you kid....running can wait for another day....your family might not....


It does seem like a bit of a communication issue...maybe be more clear about the times-- I know it would never occur to me the track would close.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Acorn said:


> This is not the first time she "forgets" things. This is not the first time she has been unreachable via cell. This is definitely not the first time she has chosen to be late and not call. But most importantly, she has this habit of just completely forgetting I exist, and then getting completely ticked off at my reactions to being neglected..


Read up on passive aggressive behavior. This is a classic sign. Basically she's resentful towards you for something completely unrelated to this so she punishes you by "forgetting" things that are important to you.

Now this might not be the case but this is a red flag to me and warrants you looking into.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

You can start by reacting appropriately. An eye for an eye brings major trouble in a marriage. If you would have stayed home, explained to her that the track closes at --, and that you'll need to make it up another day she would have been focusing solely on her actions. Now she's thinking about your overreaction to her mistake. IMO, you should apologize and ask her to come directly home on running days or to call if something comes up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> you should apologize and ask her to come directly home on running days or to call if something comes up.


I agree. And if she still forgets after you apologize you will know more than you know now about how she really feels about you.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I agree. And if she still forgets after you apologize you will know more than you know now about how she really feels about you.


Thank you all for your responses. I guess I did overreact, this would have been an easy one to diffuse and I let it get the best of me.

Magnoliagal - I think you hit the nail on the head here. I have asked her so many times under much better circumstances to just call or at least be reachable. I think I let the collective resentment overwhelm me.

There was an incident about a year ago where she had to do a job-related task of moving someone out of a building who had a criminal record of violent behavior. When she told me she was going to be at the building with him all day alone on a Saturday, I insisted that she let me come along. She said no, it would be inappropriate. I then insisted that if it were professionally inappropriate for me to be there, then it would be appropriate for a police escort during the eviction. She begrudgingly agreed. (Edit: obviously, evictions bring out the worst in people, especially if it went through the court system.)

She told me she would be home by 1pm that day. By 2:30pm, professional or not, I was worried for the safety of my wife. I called her and asked if she was ok. She was disappointed in me that I called and would not understand why I would be so upset that she did not call.

Something tells me things are never going to change.


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## expatforlife (Jun 12, 2011)

I also think you should apologize. 

I would also suggest that since this is a newer thing that you should put your planned running days on a calendar with times the track closes as this will help everyone remember the schedule and avoid future miss communications.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Her not knowing that the soft track closed by a certain time is one of the reasons the night went downhill, had it still been open, likely you would have been less upset, or not much at all. She sounds innocent in the fact she just started talking a little with some friends. Had she remembered, she may still have felt it was "no big deal" -due to the track being open (in her mind) and light enough outside for you to get your nightly run in. 

I will admit -things like this would bother me too -if I felt my spouse forgot about me, or carelssly ignorned something we talked about- just a little earlier. 


I always advise those who are forgetful or not too organized, the 1st thing they need to do is incorporate a CALENDAR into their lives, look at it daily - to remind them what is happening & what is expected of them. 

I have my faults in life, but forgetting it not one of them. I have a big family and a BIG calender -it hangs on my basement door (the kind that people put on their office desks -taking up the entire desk) and a small pocket calander in my purse as well. Literally every plan gets written down. The whole family can look at it & know what everyone is doing that day- the who, what , when, and where, with ending times as well. I mark down if phone calls need made, anything that is a MUST do gets put on this calendar. 

So we all know what is expected of us & can work effectively to deal with everyone else's schedules as well, it can be a juggling act at times but this works flawlessly for us. Nothing gets forgotten unless we didnt look! or didn't write it down. I will also include additional notes in my husbands lunch box on special days where something odd is happpening or he needs to do "this" immediately after work. He never forgets anything either. 

I can not tell you HOW this saves chaos in our large family - my kids know if plans come up, to write it down or dont expect me to even remember & not to spur something on us at the last minute & expect us to Jump -cause it may conflict with something we are doing. 

Each daily block can have runnning 5:30 (example) , she will see this, it will be ingrained in her memory. It sounds she would make the "effort" to be there for you.

I think this is a very small fight and easily resolved in the future by a little better organization (on her part) & detailed communcation (on your part).


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Acorn said:


> Thank you all for your responses. I guess I did *overreact*, this would have been an easy one to diffuse and I let it get the best of me.
> 
> Magnoliagal - I think you hit the nail on the head here. I have asked her so many times under much better circumstances to just call or at least be reachable. I think I let the collective resentment *overwhelm* me.
> 
> ...


I'm highlighting all the very strong words you've used in describing your situation. It's possible she feels a tad smothered. How do you respond when she doesn't call is important here. If its too strong she will avoid you just to avoid the conflict. She thinks lose/lose. If she calls to say she's late you'll be upset that she's late. If she doesn't call to say she's late you are still upset. She can't win but the lessor of the two evils is to put off talking to you for as long as possible. Thats her solution.

You might want to read up on the thermostat thing. You are the hot one in the relationship and the more you pursue the more the other retreats. It's obvious in her reponses to you.


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## Antheia (Jul 5, 2010)

Acorn I am going to side with you on a couple of things. 
First of all if you are just starting running, I know it is hard to be too regular with it and sometimes you need two days to rest or you want to run on two consecutive days. It is hard to be to routine about it, you have to follow how your body is feeling.
I also am going to side with you about leaving for your run and not saying hi to her and having a conversation. I do believe that if you are too emotional, it is not a good time to talk it out with the other person. Calm down and think first. Maybe you and your wife should have an agreement that sometimes you will need to walk away and say I can't talk about this right now I will get back to you later.

I would suggest that you come up with concrete plans for picking up the kids since that is a mutual responsibility and there is a closing time for the daycare. I also don't agree with either of you leaving the other at home with a child waiting on that person, that would anger me. You need some sort of system there i.e. if Tuesday night is your night to pick up Johnny and start dinner then you will not make plans and not be waiting for her to come home to take over at home so you can go out. If Wednesday is your night to pick up Johnny then be able to go out by 6:00p.m. then you can expect her to be in the driveway at 6:00 or call you by 6:00. 
Just my opinion.......


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

WOW, Much ado over nothing. Say your sorry for over-reacting and be more concrete in your plans. In the big picture, missing a run is of little consequence and a statement like " iwas just worried about you when I couldn't reach you" would have turned a disaster into a pleasant evening.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I do think she just ignored the calls and stalled leaving the daycare on purpose.

But even so, you two have to nail down an exacting calendar of who does what and when regarding daycare.

It was passive/aggressive behavior for sure.

Just annoying enough to get to you, but not enough to justify going alpha dog on her.

Be careful, she is far better at this game than you are.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Do you own a jogging stroller?
If your kids are too old for one then they are old enough to play in the area inside of the track.

I was a single parent for a lot of years.
Where there's a will, there's a way, and it doesn't take a wife being home on time to make it happen.

If she's always forgetting and being late, I'm not sure why you gambled on the evening by not stating a specific time. You offered to pick up a child, so probably you need to question why you put yourself in that position. Since she did this in the past, it sounds like you MIGHT be a sucker for punishment, giving her the opportunity to repeat the action that you don't like. It could be an anger addiction. Most people avoid unpleasant scenarios by not setting them up to happen again, especially when something's important to them, like timeliness. I think you said you picked up the kid to speed things along, but you did not say to wife, great, I will pick up kid #1 at 5 and you pick up kid #2 at 5 and I'll see you at home at 5:45. You said, I will pick up kid #1 and I am going running this evening. She said, great!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

*In the morning, I phone my wife and ask her what plans she had for the evening. I am currently trying to drop a few pounds and am running 3+ nights a week. She said she had none, and asked what I had in mind.*

Well maybe she thought you were going to setup some time with her and therefore wanted to know what you had in mind. Then it was about you and not her.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I appreciate all the posts.

I apologized to her for storming off. I took half the blame for lack of communication - I figure if either she had communicated her intention to go MIA or I had been more clear on my time preferences, we could have avoided it. After we tackled that issue, I told her that we have in the past agreed that 6pm is a reasonable time to expect each other home on weeknights if we haven't made plans that night for something else... and if she chooses to be late and/or be unreachable and/or make no effort to contact me like that again, I would interpret that as her avoiding me and trying to negatively impact my life. Then I didn't say any more about it. I dunno if that was really weak or what not... just trying to communicate a boundary and letting her do what she wants with it.

I do agree with you Michzz... I don't know if this is normal marriage woes or some game... but whatever it is, I feel like I barely know how to play. If she asks me to be somewhere, I know I always try my best to deliver. I don't know why she doesn't. It seems like her plans go off without a hitch because she doesn't involve me and trusts that if there is a sacrifice to be made, I will make it... she just does whatever she wants. I am probably enabling this behavior somehow... I dunno.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I think it is helpful to set the standard of home by 6 unless otherwise discussed or communicated for out of the ordinary events (flat tire, sick child...)

I know in past relationships when I was being taken for granted, i.e. boyfriend showing up for dinner every night, I deliberately took the opportunity to do something different once. My child had to go to ER for a knocked-out tooth and after I took child for dinner and returned to my home later. Boyfriend nearly went ballistic. I said that we never made definite plans, he had just been showing up for dinner every night assuming I would be there and by the way, I'd appreciate it if he could contribute towards the groceries (he was 6 foot+ with a physical job, kid and I were tiny). I'd been giving him the lion's share of food intended for leftovers for heat-up daycare/commuter lunches. 

Just saying, women do not like to be taken for granted. Even in a committed relationship, it makes them feel like your mommy instead of a partner. So, even if you think wife should be right home after picking up child, understand that from her perspective, having a child and having to take child home and you counting on that scenario could make her feel trapped and resentful, especially if you use that scenario to go out running and improve your own self-esteem. Her behavior may very well have been designed to say "HEY you, person I am married to, it seems to me you're taking me for granted on account that I have kids that need to be brought home, fed and put to bed. Please don't do that." As they say, actions do speak louder than words.

I hope I have given you some insight to the situation.

Marriage is not destination travel. You have to show you value the relationship and your wife's time. Don't treat her like mommy when she is a wife. She reminded you of which she is to you. 







AND left out of plans when taken for granted - I


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## dontwanttoloseher (Aug 21, 2010)

why not ask her to run/exercise with you and set up a baby sitter for the kids. You will spend quality time with your wife, she won't feel like your running away from her and you get to the track on time now since she is involved.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

"Something tells me things are never going to change."

if you understand this, you have won half the battle. I forget everything and it created a lot of tension between my wife and I. She has gotten into the habit of constantly reminding me of things and as annoying as that is, I realize that she does it because of MY problem.

So talk to your wife and explain (again) that you will reminder her of things and don't want to seem like nagging but just want everyone to be on the same page.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I really appreciate the opportunity to bounce thoughts off you guys, thank you for your responses.

Homemaker, I see what you are saying and I do not disagree with the principle but probably not surprisingly, I feel like the situation was described totally backward. I was the one that cleared my 1/2 hour run prior, I too picked up one of the kids and got stuck at home, she was the one who went out and had her fun like a single girl for 45 minutes with no responsibilities leaving me at home to deal with whatever came up and leaving me having no idea if she even bothered to pick up my other kid. Should I make dinner for two or four? Should I call the day care and ask if my kid has been picked up? *I* feel like the one who is the father asking his daughter to come home on time or at least call so as not to worry. I feel trapped and resentful too. And if we are both trapped and resentful, why does she get to have her time at my expense? 

Honestly, what am I doing wrong here? If she really didn't want me to run, why wouldn't she just say, "I feel like I need some girl time tonight, would you mind running a little later?". I would have been fine with that. I almost feel like I'm penalized for being the responsible spouse sharing plans. 

ChrisTaylor - in theory I agree with you but the dynamic between my wife is that of her being - in her words - a bit independent and selfish - and me being a recovering "nice guy". I am trying to convey to her that my 1/2 run away from her is at least as important as her 45 minutes with her friends. The former dynamic is that she gets to have her fun and if there is time left, I can have mine. I'm trying to change that. I shudder thinking of spending the rest of my life nagging someone that can't be bothered to make my wants/needs at least as high of a priority as hers.

I imagine a big part of the problem is that I am not applying the "man up"/"nice guy" thing correctly, any insight on that is appreciated, even if it is harsh to hear...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It is hard to read a sitaution from afar.
I think the best suggestion so far is the sitter.

It's possible the two of you don't have enough individual free time on your schedules. Hence the need to get some and the evening time 'dance' routine.

A sitter would be a good thing.
If you have a good sitter once or twice a week and you will be happier for it, then it is worth the $ and also good for the kids, no need to feel guilty about them being in day care. For what it's worth, kids also need time at home in their own home experiencing it differently than with mommy and daddy. It kind of tickles their thinking about how things 'work' and that there are many different and acceptable ways to be taken care of. Then, in a crisis, you have a fallback who is already trained.

Gosh, I had a sitter who would pick up kids from day care bring them home, etc. 

I think you two are trying to do it all - kids, work, fitness, marriage and forgetting you are still two individuals who need something to bring to the family or your own selves. 

It's possible wife is more sensitive to getting sucked into Mommy complex due to kids, because she is a woman. Some people read the 'Why Men Love *****es' book and take it too far over the edge. being unreliable is not a good idea in any relationship, can't see how it improves things. 

Still, if I were you, I'd get specific about scheduling so as not to give the other person any opportunity to leave me in the lurch. Undermining is the worst. Is your wife fit? Maybe it's undermining. People do weird things, and sometimes, they do not even understand why they do them.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

My wife is not fit. I never really thought of that. Five weeks ago, I decided to get in better shape, and she cooked bacon for Father's Day. I remember thinking that was an odd choice.

My wife is extraordinarily busy. She is a ranking executive at her company, so she is unavailable until 6pm most days - a text here or email there is about all she can offer. From 6pm until 9pm, she is very kid-focused. At least 3 and sometimes up to all 5 weeknights, she will take them somewhere after work - a playdate to chat with another mom, a family event, etc. Her family is HUGE, and each weekend is usually filled up with a number of family events. Usually by 10pm each night, she is asleep after checking in with Facebook and playing her games. I don't really remember what having a girlfriend or lover feels like.

One of my biggest failings as a so-called "nice guy" was that I didn't enforce my boundaries and let her lifestyle consume the marriage. Among other things, we have never had a vacation without my in-laws around and only have had one overnight date in something like 10 years. It has been an uphill battle to repair this.


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## Mirrormask (Jun 15, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I am hoping that a few people can read the details of this ridiculous argument my wife and I had yesterday. I am trying my best to make my marriage work but it is stuff like this that just has me thinking we are in such different worlds that there really is no chance.
> 
> In the morning, I phone my wife and ask her what plans she had for the evening. I am currently trying to drop a few pounds and am running 3+ nights a week. She said she had none, and asked what I had in mind. I told her today was a running day and I wanted to get running as soon as she got home so I had time to play with the kids after the run.
> 
> ...


You are off base. i will point out why. I be short and direct since your a fellow guy.

You said she forgot her phone in the car and got caught up talking at the daycare. Chances are she didn't intend on staying that long talking. You wanted a phone call from her so that you could "live your life". Do you see the problem here?

She would have to stop living her life so that you could live yours.

What was she suppose to do? Tell whoever she was talking to to wait a minute because she had to run to the car to grab her phone to call you? She had a perfectly good explanation as to why she didn't call you didn't she? She has a life to live as well my friend

Apologize to her and tell her it was just a misunderstanding and you were wrong for jumping on her about it. But in the future, make sure to remind her about things you want to do. Don't expect her to just remember everything all the time.


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## broken1 (May 10, 2011)

yeah... sorry man, but you kinda handled it like a big baby...


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

So, tonight she comes home on time with the kids and announces she got subs for everyone for dinner.

"Oh wow, thanks! Is mine in the fridge?"

She says, no, she didn't know I wanted one.

"Could you have called me?"

She says she didn't think of it. She was too busy juggling what the kids wanted.

I was better this time... I just walked away.


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

Acorn said:


> So, tonight she comes home on time with the kids and announces she got subs for everyone for dinner.
> 
> "Oh wow, thanks! Is mine in the fridge?"
> 
> ...


Ok at first I gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe she was forgetful, but after the above remark, she is definitely passive agressive and has some beef with you. Maybe she is resentful of you getting in shape or maybe she thinks that you are not spending enough time helping with the kids.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

She's saying something.
But not sure what!
Try to think back to when this started.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

She would tell you she is resentful because she feels I do not do enough housework, that we do not do enough about finances, the weight issue, and that I do not "let" her spend enough time with her friends and family.

The whole finances thing is very frustrating because we are absolutely fine financially - we are not rolling in dough but we have more than what we need and use. At first when she'd complain about this, I took a side job and worked 7 days a week. But after a few years of that, the complaints that I had no time for housework and more importantly, missing my kids growing up...I quit that... and then more resentment about money.

She spends at least 4 nights a week with family or friends, and given that we spend zero time together, it is very hard for me to take the friends/family thing seriously.

The housework thing... well, she's probably right about that. When our first was born, I was the stay at home dad - did all the housework, handled the little one, even brought the little guy in to see mommy at work once in a while. Whenever I wasn't doing that, I was working side computer jobs to earn some cash. All the while, she spent every night sleeping in the other room with the kid(s). Our marriage went practically sexless overnight as she devoted herself completely to their lives. It has only been in the last year or so that I've been able to convince her that it probably isn't kosher to sleep with an 8 year old and that she should stop that. Anyway, I admit, I have basically zero motivation to work and "earn" her company. I've tried that for years and it does not work. So, if I see housework that I think needs to be done, I do it. If not, I don't. 

With regard to weight, she put on about 30+ pounds during her pregnancies that never came off... and while weight isn't the most important thing with me, she was now at morbidly obese levels that required blood pressure medicine in her 30s. I tried to tell her that her weight was giving me health concerns, and eventually admitted that it was affecting my desire for her. That didn't really work, so I set out to lose weight myself to take the lead. She didn't want to come along with my on the journey, and I think she hates the thought of anything to do with weight control. (I think there is a big difference between loving someone for who they are, and realizing when the doctor says - you need to take off weight - that it goes beyond that.)

And yes, I am very resentful myself over her lack of availability, both companion wise and sexually. I also admit - I don't know if laziness or just lack of self-respect is what I'd call it - that I don't understand her resistance to treating her body with respect. Somehow through that, I've gotten that maybe she doesn't treat me with much respect either. 

I understand I have been a nice guy and let her trounce my boundaries. I tried to "earn" her respect and that's just not going to work. I get all that, I am working to change it. But the changes I ask for cause amazing tension between us. I don't know how to tackle things like compromises between housework and sex when she can't even understand why I'd like her to call home if she's going to be late.

And this whole dynamic is making me feel very dead inside - I desperately want this fixed... I want a good marriage... but I'm not willing to hold down a job, be a home improvement whiz, and facilitate her friends and family visits just on the slim hope that she might put some effort into fixing the foundation of our relationship.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Even though my last post reads like a laundry list of mutual resentment, I really do think that was still do feel connected to each other. We are still very friendly and have some good times together. There is still love there, on both sides. We are very loyal people, and we rarely have fought until I tried to "correct" things and try to get some of the things I need too.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Acorn said:


> So, tonight she comes home on time with the kids and announces she got subs for everyone for dinner.
> 
> "Oh wow, thanks! Is mine in the fridge?"
> 
> ...


Like I said before, she's playing a passive aggressive game with you. 

She is not being forgetful in the least.




michzz said:


> I do think she just ignored the calls and stalled leaving the daycare on purpose.
> 
> But even so, you two have to nail down an exacting calendar of who does what and when regarding daycare.
> 
> ...


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

michzz said:


> Like I said before, she's playing a passive aggressive game with you.
> 
> She is not being forgetful in the least.


I believe you - how does one fight fair with a passive aggressive spouse?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

If you are open to IC, I would go that route.
This sounds like a very discouraging situation, not at all about one evening when she came home later than expected. 
It might take a while. 
What you describe are ripples.
If you go deeper, you will find the undertow.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I have been going to IC for about two years now.

I have learned that I have co-dependent tendencies stemming from an abusive childhood. Until about two years ago, it has always made me very happy to please other people more than myself.

My wife does not really like the changes in me...I just don't know if it is possible to work on myself, become more assertive, and live for myself and my family more than just for her... all while in a marriage which was happily based around the former co-dependent dynamic.

Geez, listening and writing these posts are incredibly helpful... that line above should be the real question I try to figure out.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You'll never know til you try.
I'm going for broke, myself.
It's difficult to upset the apple cart, isn't it?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Yes, it's easily the hardest thing I've ever done. Thanks for your help Homemaker and I wish you the best with your journey too.


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I believe you - how does one fight fair with a passive aggressive spouse?


You hit the nail on the head. It is really hard to deal with a Passive Agreesive spouse. You could read the man-up threads and try those methods and she could respond very well, but you may just end up spurring a more defiant attitude out of her.

I hope someone on here that has had experience with a passive aggressive spouse can give you better advice than I can, but here is what I got just in case no one has anything else to offer: 

Be careful not to issue any ultimatums unless you are serious because it sounds like she is a bit stubborn and may just call your bluff. 

I know this sounds a bit backwards, but I think the best approach with her to will be to actually woo her a little. You could take her out to a nice dinner (you arrange everything from sitter to reservations) and take that opportunity to let her know how much being alone together means to you. She needs to know how much you love her and how happy she makes you (when she isn't mad at you). Offer to go on a family walk a couple of nights a week for some family time and exercise. You could run a lap or two, but still spend most of those evenings with her. Don't rub the fitness thing in her face. Always approach it from a healthy point of view and not for physical appearance. You will have to wait until things are a little more stable before bringing up any weight loss ideas with her. Ask her about her day. Listen to her complain about work and family. As much time as she spends with them, I am sure she has her complaints. Offer to go to dinner one night a week with her and her family or once every two weeks if that is too much for you. After you have made her feel better and if she has softened up, then you can probably start to work on all of the issues that both of you have. She will be much easier to deal with once she starts to feel good about herself and your relationship. I know that seems like bending backwards, but if you love her and feel that your marriage is worth it, then you might have to put yourself out there.

If you get nowhere with her by trying, then marriage counseling may be in order.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think at the very least your perspective and hers regarding what transpires after work are completely different.

I think you believe she has immersed herself in the whole mommy thing to the exclusion of yourself as a way to avoid you.

I'm betting she has immersed herself in the whole mommy thing because she thinks you avoid her.

And these flawed "feelings" have resulted in entrenched hostility.

You avoid dealing with it head-on and get stuck in defining what the argument is about.

She seems to revel in creating complicated ways to flip you the bird while acting like she is not.

Like others have said, while you are in this cold war of a sort you both need to agree on who does what and when and with whom each night.

Write it all out on a poster board if you have to. And both of you stick to it.

If that does not work it is an intentional act.

As I keep saying, your wife is not the type to forget a darned thing. She is a successful professional and seems to not forget anything having to do with the kids. She is intentionally excluding you from her life.

The question is, why?

That she will not articulate this to you exposes the level of anger she has about it.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

michzz said:


> She is intentionally excluding you from her life.
> 
> The question is, why?
> 
> That she will not articulate this to you exposes the level of anger she has about it.


Your post really resonates with me. I have tried so hard to get my wife to open up to me. Even in the best of times, I have asked her - doesn't it seem odd to you that we don't have any time together ("it's just a timing issue")... or that you'll promise a date night and it'll never materialize ("life got in the way")... etc.

I really think she does not know the answer. She went to an IC for a month or so, and eventually the IC gave up and said, don't bother scheduling another appointment... the IC said it felt like a giant chess game getting her to open up about anything.

My IC has hinted that she is emotionally unavailable.

When I back off completely, she is happier. Of course, we don't do anything together, and she doesn't remember me most of the time...but she is happier. The other day I looked her in the eye and told her she seems happiest on the days I am not a big part of her day. She denied that, but I am not stupid, I can see.

How convoluted is that? I'm actually considering separating from her so that she can figure out if she's happy with me.

She was such a different person before the kids. She was so much more passionate and full of life. I miss her.


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## Antheia (Jul 5, 2010)

"As I keep saying, your wife is not the type to forget a darned thing. She is a successful professional and seems to not forget anything having to do with the kids. She is intentionally excluding you from her life.

The question is, why?

That she will not articulate this to you exposes the level of anger she has about it. "

:iagree:

I think it is probably difficult for you to talk to her about the problems but you need to get from her what is bugging her. What is she angry about? As much as you think you know, you really need to get the information from her. Then tell her back what you think she is saying and make sure you have it right.

Sometimes you have to be direct yet not confrontational with passive aggressive people. "Gee you did not get me a sandwich yet I live here too, that makes me feel that you don't like me very much?" or something like that. 

When it was just the two of you it was probably easier to get along but the kids add stress to a relationship that is shakey.
The kids will not be young forever, but that brings up the thought of you two and these problems living alone in the house. Doesn't sound like that will be too pleasant.

I do think you need to stick up for yourself and not be used as a door mat. But I also think that you need to get her to tell you what is going on with her.


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