# Wife Never Loved Me? 7 Years



## J311 (May 2, 2016)

Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc is it possible she never loved me period? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

or is it immaturity? 5 year age difference


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

J311 said:


> Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc is it possible she never loved me period? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?


That means she wants to be with another kind of men... More generous that would get her a bigger rock, with a better setting.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dude, she's rewriting your history to stop her conscience from killing her. She probably had feelings for you once. The important thing is she doesn't now. 
Focus on one thing. The hard part. It's acceptance. Took me a long time. I feel for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

J311 said:


> Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc is it possible she never loved me period? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?


It's time for you to love yourself... If she didn't like the ring ask her to give it back to you and move on with your life...


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

the ring wasn't small by any means the **** just doesnt make sense. I agree with you rude, it's odd though she can't go through with filing the divorce paper work i dont get it


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

agreed^^^^^^


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

J311 said:


> the ring wasn't small by any means the **** just doesnt make sense. I agree with you rude, it's odd though she can't go through with filing the divorce paper work i dont get it


Sometimes the ring is big, but it has flaws, the color and the setting just look cheap...


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

she is just full of excuses, oh well the *****es loss i hate it for the kids, **** it


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Ah, the famous rewrighting of the marital history. Why would she file when she can eat cake? It's so yummy.


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

J311 said:


> she is just full of excuses, oh well the *****es loss i hate it for the kids, **** it


Move on with your life ... love yourself , respect yourself, stop begging for her attention... you built up her ego she thinks she can do better... I am not sure with 2 kids...


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

the cake is old here and rotten f her. Im in the process of moving on for sure i just dont understand. She wanted the divorce so bad now she doesnt want to turn the paper work in??


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Exactly..... Cake eater extraordinaire.

She so deserves walking papers. 
Too bad we can't inject a little bit of experience into this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NWCooper (Feb 19, 2013)

She "wants different things". Too bad she didn't figure that out before the two small children. And she is discussing her engagement ring now? Please.

Someone needs to grow up and put on their mommy panties. I hope she has given you more than this for reasons for blowing up her family. I just don't get these selfish people who bring children into the world and then decide it's all about them.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

J311 said:


> the cake is old here and rotten f her. Im in the process of moving on for sure i just dont understand. She wanted the divorce so bad now she doesnt want to turn the paper work in??


Why don't you take the bull by the horns and do it yourself?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'd beat her to the punch and file myself. Reason: adultery. If I could, I'd have it on the papers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

I see what your saying "I'm here security blanket" f that. If something doesn't get done soon I will file the damn papers


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The reality is why would she give up a plan B for a maybe?

She doesn't mind you being in limbo.


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

I get that completely, In this situation i will have to end the bull **** myself and file. She isn't going to go around town probably screwing other guys and have me in her back pocket. Good luck to her .... she will be another dudes worst nightmare


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your best bet is to get strong, go silent, take control and move on with your life.

Letting her call the shots which is what you're doing is getting you nowhere.

You're waiting on her. Why?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The sooner you realize that your life is what YOU make it is when it starts falling into place.

May not happen overnight but your life will become simpler and easier to live which is where you need to be.


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

agreed marc things have started falling into place nicely. Don't get me wrong there were periods were i cried and was really depressed over losing my wife but you know what i remember she showed no emotion she was as cold as ice. Didnt give two ****s. Have fun in the real world ***** you had it too good with me


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

J311 said:


> Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc is it possible she never loved me period? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight *she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?*


Nothing to do with ring. She's also rewriting marital history to justify blowing up the family. She's having a sexual PA and POS is probably future faking her, which is why she wants out.

Time to implement the 180 so you can detach. Separate the finances
and file D and fight for joint custody. Don't leave the marital home or bed. She wants out, show her the door. Also start carrying a VAR, because so many WWs are coached to accuse their BHs of abuse, so they can file a restraining order and have him removed from home. VERY COMMON. Don't be lulled into false sense of security. You're wife is no longer on your team.


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

pa and pos? stand for


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Pa=physical affair 

POS=piece of sh!t


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

anything is possible don't quite see how hell she is living with her parents either way she will be someone else's prob


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Her "different things" probably goes by a different name.

That name is probably Chad.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Dude, she's rewriting your history to stop her conscience from killing her. She probably had feelings for you once. The important thing is she doesn't now.
> Focus on one thing. The hard part. It's acceptance. Took me a long time. I feel for you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or she had a fantast about how things were and he's not living up to the fantasy.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Evinrude58 said:


> Dude, *she's rewriting your history* to stop her conscience from killing her. She probably had feelings for you once. The important thing is she doesn't now.
> Focus on one thing. The hard part. It's acceptance. Took me a long time. I feel for you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, this.

My ex wife gave me that line, too. 14 years (7 married), and she never loved me? B.S.

Feelings of being in love are always strongest at the beginning of a relationship, and it's easy to "forget" those feelings over time. Add in an OM/OW who rekindles those feelings, and it's not difficult to think you were never in love with your spouse or partner.

When there's an OM or an OW, it can certainly make somebody feel like they never knew what love was until then, thus thinking they never actually loved you.

Even if there isn't an OM in your case, it's as Evinrude said - re-writing history. Makes it easier on the person who wants out, and they think it makes it easier on you, too.

Funny thing is, having gone through that myself, it would have been easier for me if my ex wife had said nothing about that, or even if she had said "I don't love you any more". It serves no purpose for the person being broken up with, and can even be more hurtful. Hearing my ex wife say she was never in love with me was the worst thing about all of that, no joke. It's BS, for one (and that took me a long time to realize) but it's a very hurtful thing to say, even though the person saying it thinks it somehow makes it easier on you. No, it makes it easier on THEM.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jsmart said:


> Nothing to do with ring. She's also rewriting marital history to justify blowing up the family. She's having a sexual PA and POS is probably future faking her, which is why she wants out.


Also this.

I'm not usually one to jump on the "they're cheating" bandwagon, but I've seen this too often (and lived it myself).

9 times out of 10, there's somebody else, whether it's going on already, or they're in their sights.

My ex wife had a long distance OM for 2 years before she left. Logistics prevented her from up and leaving sooner. So why not stay with me, have two incomes, a house, etc? She only ended the marriage when it was convenient and possible (financially, mostly).


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Ditto on everything everyone has posted. Mine was never attracted to me and only married me because we were friends and she thought it was enough. What??? Haha

Even the same with the divorce paperwork. I had to file and it was like pulling teeth to get her to go along with it and get it done. Divorce paperwork can be such a drag, man. She is on a journey here dude and you are so selfish to think about yourself. She needs to spread her wings and fly and you are an anchor. 

Stay in the home. File and have her served. 180 to the max. Quit talking to her.

If you hold your breath waiting for her to return to "normal" prepare to go without oxygen for the next few decades. Plenty of time for you to print up a lifetime supply of Plan B t-shirts.

She is gone, let her go. Put the trash on the curb.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

J311 said:


> Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc *is it possible she never loved me period*? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?





J311 said:


> *or is it immaturity*? 5 year age difference


Yes and yes


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

See I cannot get behind this massive wife bashing, necessarily. In this poster's other threads, he repeatedly mentioned disregarding HER desires in favor of HIS objective determination of the merits of an action. The ring was not one that SHE wanted, even though HE deems it big enough. She did not even complain about the size, but that she did not like the cut and setting, as he first mentioned. He later revised to say she did complain about the size. Which is it? She was disappointed in the honeymoon because he did not listen to her desires but decided, unilaterally, on the merits of HIS choice of destination. There are other similar examples. His rationale all along is was this HIS choice was BETTER. Bull. Her desires should have counted. 

She is leaving him, whether she is the evil ***** or not, that ship has sailed. But I don't see the benefit to the OP in ignoring the other side of the equation lest he finds himself in yet another right-fight relationship. Right-fighting is the death toll of ANY relationship.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

J311 said:


> the cake is old here and rotten f her. Im in the process of moving on for sure i just dont understand. She wanted the divorce so bad now she doesnt want to turn the paper work in??


Has her plan met a flaw?

My bet would be that her married lover has been giving her all sorts of promises.

He'll buy her the biggest ring ever, of course he will divorce his wife and marry her and take on her two children and so forth.

But what a shock! Suddenly married lover has gotten cold feet!

He can't get the divorce through just yet, so she will just have to wait a while until he can really, honesty, dump his wife. But your eX wife to be will just have to give him more time. 

Talking of time, it is time to blow her fantasy to bits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> See I cannot get behind this massive wife bashing, necessarily. In this poster's other threads, he repeatedly mentioned disregarding HER desires in favor of HIS objective determination of the merits of an action. The ring was not one that SHE wanted, even though HE deems it big enough. She did not even complain about the size, but that she did not like the cut and setting, as he first mentioned. He later revised to say she did complain about the size. Which is it? She was disappointed in the honeymoon because he did not listen to her desires but decided, unilaterally, on the merits of HIS choice of destination. There are other similar examples. His rationale all along is was this HIS choice was BETTER. Bull. Her desires should have counted.
> 
> She is leaving him, whether she is the evil ***** or not, that ship has sailed. But I don't see the benefit to the OP in ignoring the other side of the equation lest he finds himself in yet another right-fight relationship. Right-fighting is the death toll of ANY relationship.


Most guys pick the ring out themselves and surprise the woman they want to marry with it. What kind woman has the gall to complain about it? That should have been his first red flag. Now that I'm a little wiser I would never buy a diamond ring again, or more importantly, marry such a woman that places such importance on something so irrelevant and material.

There is a big difference between nit-picking or drumming up excuses to be unhappy and abandoning and destroying the marriage. I don't relate the two. You could pick apart the details in any relationship if the goal is to find a reason to hate someone or justify the terrible things you're doing. It sounds like rewriting history to me with an unhealthy dose of blame-shifting. And most betrayed spouses are so in the fog themselves they accept the blame.


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## LadybugMomma (Apr 28, 2016)

J311 said:


> she is just full of excuses, oh well the *****es loss i hate it for the kids, **** it


No one wants to have their children be victims of divorce, but the MOST important thing YOU can do for them, is gather yourself together, just your head on straight and handle this ADULT situation with dignity. Quit dragging this along. It's the drawn out, fighting battle that hurts the children. Take the divorce papers and file them yourself. Focus on yourself and the best interest of your children. Who cares at this point whether she ever loved you or whether she was happy with the ring or not. There will always be the questions of why. You trying to figure it out, isn't going to happen and in the mean time, you're hurting yourself along with your children. Children are smart, they absorb SO much. Let what they absorb, be nothing but good!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

cbnero said:


> Most guys pick the ring out themselves and surprise the woman they want to marry with it. What kind woman has the gall to complain about it? That should have been his first red flag. Now that I'm a little wiser I would never buy a diamond ring again, or more importantly, marry such a woman that places such importance on something so irrelevant and material.
> 
> There is a big difference between *nit-picking* or *drumming up excuses to be unhappy* and abandoning and destroying the marriage. I don't relate the two. You could pick apart the details in any relationship if the goal is to find a reason to hate someone or justify the terrible things you're doing. It sounds like rewriting history to me with an unhealthy dose of blame-shifting. And most betrayed spouses are so in the fog themselves they accept the blame.


Reads: I have to agree with your reasons for being unhappy. If I don't, you should shut the f up and make me a sandwich.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> See I cannot get behind this massive wife bashing, necessarily. In this poster's other threads, he repeatedly mentioned disregarding HER desires in favor of HIS objective determination of the merits of an action. The ring was not one that SHE wanted, even though HE deems it big enough. She did not even complain about the size, but that she did not like the cut and setting, as he first mentioned. He later revised to say she did complain about the size. Which is it? She was disappointed in the honeymoon because he did not listen to her desires but decided, unilaterally, on the merits of HIS choice of destination. There are other similar examples. His rationale all along is was this HIS choice was BETTER. Bull. Her desires should have counted.
> 
> She is leaving him, whether she is the evil ***** or not, that ship has sailed. But I don't see the benefit to the OP in ignoring the other side of the equation lest he finds himself in yet another right-fight relationship. Right-fighting is the death toll of ANY relationship.


See if anyone even responds to this. TAM loves to wife bash, especially ones that walk, with little regard for what the other side might look like. 

OP gives very vague explanations, so either he purposely leaves things out our he really has no idea what she thinks because he does what he wants.

If OP wants to be a victim instead of acknowledging his own issues it will just follow him to his next relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Agree with others... She is either rewriting history or married you through deceit either way she is coming to the end of the relationships and checking out. Scrambling after her now will only accelerate that process. You need to start coming up with a plan before you get blind sided with the divorce papers because I think they are coming soon.


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

^^^ have already signed papers she has yet to turn them in. Has had them for at least 2 weeks now


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> See if anyone even responds to this. TAM loves to wife bash, especially ones that walk, with little regard for what the other side might look like.
> 
> OP gives very vague explanations, so either he purposely leaves things out our he really has no idea what she thinks because he does what he wants.
> 
> ...


I will never forget for one minute of my life when mu husband realized, oh you want me to LISTEN to your pov and not just try to convince me of mine? He asked me well what if I really don't agree with your pov? I said, how about if we reflect back understanding of each other's PoVs before attempting to reconcile compromise and solution? Oh, ok, I can do that. And let's recognize that all positions are practical, some a matter of emotion or preference. When you say you want to go out for Mexican, and I say I want to go for Thai, who is "right"? Neither. Sometimes I will cheerful bend and go to Mexican. But you cannot fight EVERY meal out because Mexican is somehow righter. Sometimes we get to go to Thai. But sometimes some things are more right, like the expense vs the quality of the decking... There the practical arguments make a much more compelling position.

Somehow he had not problem with that.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> See if anyone even responds to this. TAM loves to wife bash, especially ones that walk, with little regard for what the other side might look like.
> 
> OP gives very vague explanations, so either he purposely leaves things out our he really has no idea what she thinks because he does what he wants.
> 
> ...


TAM does plenty of husband bashing as well. 

But we almost always only get one side of the story here. We only get the benefit of one persons perspective on it then relate that through own lens. I happen to believe that WAW and WAH are a real thing. People can and do check out of thier marriages for reasons that have nothing to do with the other person. It certainly isn't always the case and maybe this isn't the full story but I don't know how any of us can give advice beyond what is presented here. Guess my point is if we are to assume this poster is lying and painting himself in the best light possible then don't we just have to assume all posters are lying? If that's they case why would we give advice at all? :frown2:


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

J311 said:


> ^^^ have already signed papers she has yet to turn them in. Has had them for at least 2 weeks now


Ahh ok I apologize if I missed that they were signed earlier. I do agree with lifestooshort about addressing your own problems. You likely can't fix this marriage and it's over. You need to look back and figure out what and where things went wrong. You need to learn from your past to be successful in your future realtionship.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> TAM does plenty of husband bashing as well.
> 
> But we almost always only get one side of the story here. We only get the benefit of one persons perspective on it then relate that through own lens. I happen to believe that WAW and WAH are a real thing. People can and do check out of thier marriages for reasons that have nothing to do with the other person. It certainly isn't always the case and maybe this isn't the full story but I don't know how any of us can give advice beyond what is presented here. Guess my point is if we are to assume this poster is lying and painting himself in the best light possible then don't we just have to assume all posters are lying? If that's they case why would we give advice at all? :frown2:


.
But we all know there's always another side and yet little effort is made to find out what it could be. 

This whole thing makes no sense and is quite vague, like he's either leaving out a ton or he really doesn't know what's bothering her. And because he's happy she must have been too and the fact that she wasn't means that she rewrote everything. 

How convenient for him. 

I knew there had to be more to this before I saw nobody soecial's post, and now it makes sense. He basically ignores what she thinks in favor of what he wants. .... that's not going to work with anyone. He isn't necessarily lying, he's giving you his view of things. 

If your ex wife came here how would her view of your marriage mix with yours? I know if you got my ex's story TAM would tell him I was cheating, rewrote history for my benefit, and was an entitled princess. Needless to say I have my own side. And since I've been happily with someone for almost 11 years and he can't keep a relationship together, I'd say that supports the fact that he's not a very good partner. 

But you wouldn't get that from his victim story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

I'm giving her all the space and time she needs. I know it's not true that she never loved me, just trying to come up with something. I truly love her. I feel as though she cracked under the pressures of life/marriage. Never had anyone to talk to to vent her frustrations and just gave up took the easy way out i guess.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

J311 said:


> I'm giving her all the space and time she needs. I know it's not true that she never loved me, just trying to come up with something. I truly love her. I feel as though she cracked under the pressures of life/marriage. Never had anyone to talk to to vent her frustrations and just gave up took the easy way out i guess.



You can give her all the time and space she needs. It wont change anything.

She's not coming back bro. Lick your wounds and move on.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

He is definitely responsible for his side of the street. 

But of course this is one sided, how could it not be with only 1 person here? If you want to spout out this "you only cared about yourself nonsense" then every time a guy doesn't give in to his wife he must be emotionally abusive. Sell that crap somewhere else. There are plenty of others willing to buy it. No wonder nobody can get along anymore. Marriage is a give and take. I'm not saying she was worthless the whole marriage. Or him. Only that the way she is doing these things is wrong.

But hey, let's take 2 examples and label him an abusive selfish bully for the course of the marriage. 

In the end it doesn't matter. If she has another man and abandoned the marriage, that's on her. No justification of yours changes that being a lousy thing by her, no matter if he is the world's biggest jerk. 

If I were the poster I'd get off of TAM vs listening to crap like that. OP, own your stuff. Cut her loose. Improve and move on. Work on forgiveness. End of story.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> .
> But we all know there's always another side and yet little effort is made to find out what it could be.
> 
> This whole thing makes no sense and is quite vague, like he's either leaving out a ton or he really doesn't know what's bothering her. And because he's happy she must have been too and the fact that she wasn't means that she rewrote everything.
> ...


Correct and if my x came here she would lie as well cause that's what cheaters do. She lies to my kids all the time about what happend. So my point was you can only deal with the information presented and their perspective of things. Just seems the assumption here,tam, is always that when the wife walks away it's the husbands fault. Nonsense that it's always that case but sometimes it will be and we won't always know the truth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## J311 (May 2, 2016)

10-4


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

cbnero said:


> He is definitely responsible for his side of the street.
> 
> But of course this is one sided, how could it not be with only 1 person here?


Of course it isn't. But what a bad, horrible, b!tchy woman she is mantra does not help him.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> .
> But we all know there's always another side and yet little effort is made to find out what it could be.
> 
> This whole thing makes no sense and is quite vague, like he's either leaving out a ton or he really doesn't know what's bothering her. And because he's happy she must have been too and the fact that she wasn't means that she rewrote everything.
> ...


So did you cheat? Then own being a cheater. If you were so unhappy, you should have left first, found a guy second.

Just because you've been happily married for 11 years and he hasn't doesn't mean he's a bad partner, as much as you probably tell yourself that all the time. Yeah, he could be, but you could have also met some wimp that puts up with your entitled princess ways and acts happy about it because you have so many other good qualities (I guess). He could have gotten bad luck or had a bad picker and kept picking cheaters, or gotten an entitled princess-- they hide it somewhat. The entitled princess ways may not work so well with other guys. If you're happy, be happy. But I really don't think you should claim that you're so great, you've been married 11 years and he sucks, that doesn't have a lot of bearing on your ex's life. If he sucks, let him suck. 
Did you rewrite history? I suspect so. Was some of what you said/thought true? I suspect so.
Fact is, if you cheated and then left, you were in the wrong and your ex has a legitimate gripe. Fact is, since you didn't love him anymore, he's better off.
Fact is, when the betrayed partner heals, the WHY pretty much doesn't matter anymore. It's over. OP should own his side of the fence so he won't make the same mistakes again. He is probably owning way too much acreage at this point, because her rewriting history (all cheaters do it, I think) has made him question his whole role in the failed marriage. 

I guess that we all have our past that affects our judgement. It seems that your past has made you a man-hater. You in most cases default to bad husband mode, even if the wife is cheating. I default to bad wife mode when the wife is cheating, or bad husband mode if the husband is cheating. Why? I know how it feels to have your heart stomped on and handed to you, and stomped again and again every time she purposely provides information about what a bad spouse I was and how her new guy is so great. Yeah, I know I have some bias. Its seems sometimes you don't seem to know yours.
I think I may provide some documentation of emails that were sent and still being sent to me to back up my view and provide examples of the mindset of cheating wives for posterity.

My last conversation, after which I haven't talked to her since and don't plan to let her, included the phrases "you had all the basics right" and "it was a bunch of petty things, that added up to a lot".
Hmmmmm, that wasn't what I heard the 2 months after she stayed home after she said she wanted a divorce, before I found out about the cheating. She sent me an email with tips on how to be a better dad yesterday. She referred to herself as an "impeccable mother". The last adjectives she used were "awesome wife and mother" and "fantastic mom and wife". Who does this? A person who is guilty and wants to tell themselves things to make themselves feel better.
Are you guilty of this?

Rant over. Lifestooshort--- Do YOU own any problems in your past marriage???? I'll bet you do, but they don't really count in your mind. At least it seems that way sometimes.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> So did you cheat? Then own being a cheater. If you were so unhappy, you should have left first, found a guy second.
> 
> Just because you've been happily married for 11 years and he hasn't doesn't mean he's a bad partner, as much as you probably tell yourself that all the time. Yeah, he could be, but you could have also met some wimp that puts up with your entitled princess ways and acts happy about it because you have so many other good qualities (I guess). He could have gotten bad luck or had a bad picker and kept picking cheaters, or gotten an entitled princess-- they hide it somewhat. The entitled princess ways may not work so well with other guys. If you're happy, be happy. But I really don't think you should claim that you're so great, you've been married 11 years and he sucks, that doesn't have a lot of bearing on your ex's life. If he sucks, let him suck.
> Did you rewrite history? I suspect so. Was some of what you said/thought true? I suspect so.
> ...



I did not, but thank you for assuming. I made the comment because he'd likely tell you that I walked on him with no warning and he had no idea there were issues. Except that he did, it's just that he liked the marriage as it was and didn't think I'd go. Therefore, he'd tell you he was blindsided and I walked with no good reason, and clearly TAM's universal answer to the that is cheating. 

I did end the marriage, which by the way he fought every step.

I own plenty of my own problems, which is a lot of the reason I've been able to be successful this time around, at least so far. 

Do you own your issues? Or is your ungrateful, cheating ex responsible for all of your marital issues?

And I get it. Pointing out alternative explanations definitely makes me a man hater. If that's what you want to think it's no skin off my nose. I'll be sure to let my hb and two sons know that I hate men, im sure they'll get a kick out of that. 


I love men. I just don't like victims, misogynists, entitled people, or hypocrites.

Based on your posts I'm not sure you think all that highly of women. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Perceptive 

Deep sigh. 

Guys - while it's true that I'm not big on making excuses for cheaters. 

It's also true that it isn't helpful to radiate 'unconditional acceptance' at a poster who seems to have genuinely missed some real opportunities.

For example: Man is paying so man has sole say or final word (regarding ring) is not likely to produce the desired outcome. 

As the person writing the check - the man absolutely has the right to cap the spend level. And generally speaking, if there is contention over the ring budget that is a big red flag. 

But at a mutually agreeable price point - it saddens me that the following isn't obvious. It's her ring. She's (hopefully  ) going to be wearing it all her waking hours. So - logic says: she has the final say

But - I am keenly aware we can all argue our own logic until the end of days. And yes - in many situations it is true that if someone pays - they get to decide the outcome. So that is the contra logic in this case.

So now - different question entirely. What's the point of the ring? 

In theory - that ring - serves two functions:
- It's a mechanical signal to would be suitors (I'm taken)
- It also represents the idea of a life partnership

So being a simple guy, I've got a simple view of that second line item. When M2 looks at her ring - I want her to feel happy. Full stop. To remember that as a case where I did my level best to make the experience fun, happy and bonding. 

Honeymoon - sort of the same thing. 

But here's the bigger point. NS is dead on regarding preferences. A preference is inherently harmless.

But if you want to make it toxic - wrap it up in pseudo logic and claim that your preference is clearly the objectively correct choice. 

Then lean on your superior verbal/debating skills to drive home the point. Rinse and repeat. 




NobodySpecial said:


> Of course it isn't. But what a bad, horrible, b!tchy woman she is mantra does not help him.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Perceptive
> 
> Deep sigh.
> 
> ...


Holy moly. Well said.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I did not, but thank you for assuming. I made the comment because he'd likely tell you that I walked on him with no warning and he had no idea there were issues. Except that he did, it's just that he liked the marriage as it was and didn't think I'd go. Therefore, he'd tell you he was blindsided and I walked with no good reason, and clearly TAM's universal answer to the that is cheating.
> 
> I did end the marriage, which by the way he fought every step.
> 
> ...


I own mine. Most of mine were early in the marriage. But she held on to resentment over them the whole marriage. That was my fault. I had a terrible temper and her spending habits pulled that out. I also was probably controlling the first few years. A few times in the marriage, she would admit she needed me to be certain ways because she had no self control over spending. She put 40k miles on her new car in the year and a half after we separated and divorced. The "running and gunning" constantly during the marriage also caused my temper to flare up at times. I did want to spend time with her in the evenings after my hunting and fishing, and expected a wife to be home at a reasonable hour after having her own fun. I realize now that I was neglecting her at times. But my fishing and hunting was only a total of about 3 months of the year. If I was out fishing and hunting on the weekends, I was selfish in her mind. I was at times. I never did help with the kids enough-- I own all of that, and have corrected it- yes, probably out of necessity, but did before we divorced and before I knew she wanted one. Even that was rare in the last few years we were married. Yes, I've thought about all my problems, and have tried to work on them through the years, long before we divorced. 
My current relationship is very different. I've never lost my temper with the new girl, she is responsible, reliable, honest, reasonable and very physically affectionate. All things my previous wife wasn't. I'm hoping to marry her soon. And I do worry that maybe MY negative aspects will rear their ugly head. 

How this pertains to the OP-----------
I truly feel like a lot of that worry about my current relationship is due to the mind f that my previous wife did on me. 
I don't want to see other men get programmed to think it's all their fault when a wife cheats and leaves the marriage. It's rarely all one person's fault. When cheating is involved, the blame is usually shifted in the cheater's direction, I think. And the cheater usually won't accept ANY. It's all the other spouse's fault.
Do you agree with that assessment?


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I agree you can't do a relationship autopsy with only half the story. Bashing her doesn't help but neither does the left behind spouse blaming themselves. Anything the leaver says at this point is skewed and should be taken with a grain of salt. And in the end the "why" doesn't matter at all.

If his wife does lousy things then that's on her. He should stop blaming himself and work to disconnect from her immediately.

Let her go. And the majority of posts underline that same theme.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> How this pertains to the OP-----------
> I truly feel like a lot of that worry about my current relationship is due to the mind f that my previous wife did on me.
> I don't want to see other men get programmed to think *it's all their fault* when a wife ...and *leaves the marriage*.


And again, no one is responsible for cheating but the cheater. But otherwise, this is so unhelpful. Little children point at each other and worry whose "fault" something is. Grown ups learn and apply lessons from their lives.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

My husband had a neighbor growing up. She secretly married her first husband on a boyfriend rebound. HUGE mistake. The guy was a loon. She finally realized this and went to leave him. He killed himself. After this, she went to counseling just long enough to for the therapist to tell her that the suicide was not "her fault". She went on to have 2 more disastrous marriages that she lept into after the failure of the former one. Lots of learning did not go on there.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Evinrude58 said:
> 
> 
> > How this pertains to the OP-----------
> ...


Today's culture it's all about being permissive and accepting. Screw that. Responsibility and promises still mean something, even though others will tell you otherwise. 

No one is perfect. I just call bs when I see it. Suddenly when a person decides to bail on the marriage suddenly all these reasons come up to justify the terrible thing of breaking your word and vows to end it. And then to say it's childish to assign any blame? That is the definition of hypocritical.

People should not be treated like a pair of old shoes that get tossed out for a new one. Karma always comes around and if everyone that claims to be so happy I question why they are still on TAM. When I'm happy, fully healed, and moved on, I certainly will not be here chastising others and justifying my own lousy behavior.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I own mine. Most of mine were early in the marriage. But she held on to resentment over them the whole marriage. That was my fault. I had a terrible temper and her spending habits pulled that out. I also was probably controlling the first few years. A few times in the marriage, she would admit she needed me to be certain ways because she had no self control over spending. She put 40k miles on her new car in the year and a half after we separated and divorced. The "running and gunning" constantly during the marriage also caused my temper to flare up at times. I did want to spend time with her in the evenings after my hunting and fishing, and expected a wife to be home at a reasonable hour after having her own fun. I realize now that I was neglecting her at times. But my fishing and hunting was only a total of about 3 months of the year. If I was out fishing and hunting on the weekends, I was selfish in her mind. I was at times. I never did help with the kids enough-- I own all of that, and have corrected it- yes, probably out of necessity, but did before we divorced and before I knew she wanted one. Even that was rare in the last few years we were married. Yes, I've thought about all my problems, and have tried to work on them through the years, long before we divorced.
> My current relationship is very different. I've never lost my temper with the new girl, she is responsible, reliable, honest, reasonable and very physically affectionate. All things my previous wife wasn't. I'm hoping to marry her soon. And I do worry that maybe MY negative aspects will rear their ugly head.
> 
> How this pertains to the OP-----------
> ...


Of course. Cheating is s terrible response to unhappiness and never solves anything. I do think that when it happens the tendency is to put all focus there to the detriment of other issues that were already there, and many of those issues are blown off as rewriting. 

I suppose it's difficult to distinguish what's a genuine issue from a fog based issue, maybe you can't until you're further out and your head is clear.

Posters needn't take all the blame....it seldom is only one at fault. But a fair effort to find out what's really going on should happen more often. As far as cheating, from what I've seen on this site it seems to me that women are more likely to take some blame when hb cheats, especially if she wasn't having much sex with him. 

It's good you looked at your issues. I have plenty, mostly foo issues, and I know I'm not always easy to put up with. I think my hb is just a much better match for me, ex and I were incompatible. And I never trusted my ex in the sense that I couldn't be vulnerable with him because he used it against me. Hb isn't always the most understanding guy but he doesn't use my issues against me. At least in that sense I can trust him. 

Ex and I get along ok these days, but it was a long road. I think he's happier without me, he just wouldn't have ripped the band aid off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Perceptive
> 
> Deep sigh.
> 
> ...


I just want to add one thing. And it's a thing I've verified myself 3 ways to Sunday and I believe that in general is true.

The primary reason for the ring is not to tell other suitors that you're taken. Because most of those guys won't care.

The primary reason for the ring is not to give her something shiny on her finger to look at. Because, like a Mercedes or a fancy suit, after a few months it just becomes another thing in your life.

The primary reason for a ring is for her to feel valued, and to broadcast that value to the world. 

To other women, it's a sign that someone is willing to dump loads of money on you, and so there.

To other men, it's a sign that you're expensive and worth it. 

And it seems that the OP's wife is a little caught up in all of that, because for most women, all that I just said is pretty much just a laugh.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes

And I'd like to share an observation. The OP began an earlier thread with: 

1. Wife complained throughout the marriage about the ring and honeymoon decisions. 
2. Wife complained that I never listened to her (while we were married) which is true.
3. Subsequently he justifies why the ring/honeymoon decisions were 'right'.

The OP is an intelligent fellow and I'm hoping he will connect the dots now. 

She likely never got over the ring/honeymoon because the underlying driver - which was J not valuing her input - never changed. 

Those emotions she felt - of being dismissed - just got bigger over time. Because he continued to disregard her input. 

But the reason I'm not confident he really truly gets this - is - he admits he didn't listen to her. And that he understands why that is upsetting. 

But it does not mean anything to acknowledge an abstract fault. He then turns around and explains what a big rock it was and what a great location he proposed in. 

There is more - but J is going to need to move from a blame assignment mindset, to a self assessment posture - before he can benefit from it. 





NobodySpecial said:


> And again, no one is responsible for cheating but the cheater. But otherwise, this is so unhelpful. Little children point at each other and worry whose "fault" something is. Grown ups learn and apply lessons from their lives.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

cbnero said:


> Today's culture it's all about being permissive and accepting. Screw that. Responsibility and promises still mean something, even though others will tell you otherwise.


Who are these "others" people keep talking about that are whispering stupid things in people's ears? It is actually about balance, male or female. 

1. Hold onto your N.U.T.s. KNOW what they are. Have them be based on your character, not your petty whims. Make the list as small as it can be but as large as it has to be. Learn how to set effective limits on your NUTs, and never ever parley them away.

2. What you can accept, do accept with loving grace.

3. Build rapport with love, understanding and humor. Make more love deposits than you do withdrawals.




> No one is perfect. I just call bs when I see it. Suddenly when a person decides to bail on the marriage suddenly all these reasons come up to justify the terrible thing of breaking your word and vows to end it. And then to say it's childish to assign any blame?


Yes, it is childish to assign blame because children engage in ineffective behaviors. Presumably mature adults learn to let tantrumy ineffective behaviors go since they don't help. Suddenly huh? How about the years she complained about not being listened to? She is not even here to give her side of the story, and this comes out loud and clear. 



> That is the definition of hypocritical.
> 
> People should not be treated like a pair of old shoes that get tossed out for a new one.


Of course not. Nor should they be ignored and required to "stay" if the other party does not agree with their supposed bull**** reasons.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

marduk said:


> I just want to add one thing. And it's a thing I've verified myself 3 ways to Sunday and I believe that in general is true.
> 
> The primary reason for the ring is not to tell other suitors that you're taken. Because most of those guys won't care.
> 
> ...


Ew. I am really glad that you don't tell ME what MY primary value placement on my ring is. Cuz that would make me sick up all over my new work computer.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marduk,

I got the impression that this issue was aesthetic - not budgetary.

I do agree with your point. 





marduk said:


> I just want to add one thing. And it's a thing I've verified myself 3 ways to Sunday and I believe that in general is true.
> 
> The primary reason for the ring is not to tell other suitors that you're taken. Because most of those guys won't care.
> 
> ...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Marduk,
> 
> I got the impression that this issue was aesthetic - not budgetary.
> 
> I do agree with your point.


Wait, what point are you agreeing with? That there is an objection "reason" for a ring that includes how *expensive* she is? And how her worth is measure in the cost of her engagement ring?

I find this interesting since statistically, the larger the engagement ring, the lower likelihood of marital success.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Ew. I am really glad that you don't tell ME what MY primary value placement on my ring is. Cuz that would make me sick up all over my new work computer.


That's the "in general" bit.

Because if none of that was true, a plain band would suit most people.

Hell, my buddy just dropped $30K on an 'upgrade' for his wife on their 15 year anniversary. His wife convinced him "it's what people do."

And "it's only $2K per year, it's a bargain!"

Said his wife. Who loves showing it off... To other women.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait, what point are you agreeing with? That there is an objection "reason" for a ring that includes how *expensive* she is? And how her worth is measure in the cost of her engagement ring?
> 
> I find this interesting since statistically, the larger the engagement ring, the lower likelihood of marital success.


Holy ****.

I believe you. Where did you see that?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

marduk said:


> Holy ****.
> 
> I believe you. Where did you see that?


Husband found it. I did not note the resource.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NS,

I have had several women tell me that they were competitive with their social group regarding ring size. I am aware that this isn't universal - just saying it isn't rare. 

But that isn't the point. Not in this thread. Because I don't believe their issue was budgetary. 





NobodySpecial said:


> Wait, what point are you agreeing with? That there is an objection "reason" for a ring that includes how *expensive* she is? And how her worth is measure in the cost of her engagement ring?
> 
> I find this interesting since statistically, the larger the engagement ring, the lower likelihood of marital success.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> NS,
> 
> I have had several women tell me that they were competitive with their social group regarding ring size. I am aware that this isn't universal - just saying it isn't rare.
> 
> But that isn't the point. Not in this thread. Because I don't believe *their issue was budgetary*.


That tune was changed when challenged.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Husband found it. I did not note the resource.


I could see it being true. All kinds of things mixed up in that.

Like a husband trying to buy his wife's attention. Or being insecure. Or trying to make up for cheating on her while dating.

Or from a woman's side, being too focused on materialism or appearances. Or marrying for money. Or never getting enough.

That kind of stuff?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

J311 said:


> Based on some of the things my wife has said "she wasn't happy with the engagement ring" etc etc is it possible she never loved me period? Dated for 2 years married for 5? 2 small children. Tonight she told me we want different things in life.... what the hell does that mean?


"Oh, you know how it is... we wanted different things. I wanted children, and she wanted a pastry chef named Jean-Phillipe."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> NS,
> 
> I have had several women tell me that they were competitive with their social group regarding ring size. I am aware that this isn't universal - just saying it isn't rare.
> 
> But that isn't the point. Not in this thread. Because I don't believe their issue was budgetary.


My wife and in-laws readily admit that they do.

My female co-workers -- to a woman -- admit that it's true.

Hell, just the other day I was in line at Starbucks listening to a group of 40-something women compare their "right hand ring" sizes.

It seemed exactly like a dude walking around the men's change room flexing his muscles and having his **** swing around.

I don't think women and men are that different.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course. Cheating is s terrible response to unhappiness and never solves anything. I do think that when it happens the tendency is to put all focus there to the detriment of other issues that were already there, and many of those issues are blown off as rewriting.
> 
> I suppose it's difficult to distinguish what's a genuine issue from a fog based issue, maybe you can't until you're further out and your head is clear.
> 
> ...


I've just realized after my current gf pointed this out to me, that I'm horrible about this. I honestly had no idea. She told me something in vulnerability about her mom the other day and told me not to use it against her. In less than an hour, I did. I called her the mom's name because she was doing just what her mom was doing. Until she pointed that out, I never knew I was doing this. I'm sure I did it with my ex, and it bothered her. But She never was able to explain what I was doing so that I understood how hurtful it was and exactly what this was so that I recognized it before I did it.
This may be a problem that other husbands could benefit from understanding. I think now that I know, I can train myself out of it before it ever becomes a problem in my current relationship.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> "Oh, you know how it is... we wanted different things. I wanted children, and she wanted a pastry chef named Jean-Phillipe."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would make an awesome T-shirt.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

marduk said:


> I could see it being true. All kinds of things mixed up in that.
> 
> Like a husband trying to buy his wife's attention. Or being insecure. Or trying to make up for cheating on her while dating.
> 
> ...


Probably. When you made that comment about rings and value based on monetary expenditure, I was like, yah I am sure that happens. But what a bunch of morons. What a dumb thing to base your life on, showing off a fat ring to your girlfriends. 

My first ring was a little quarter caret solitaire that he got at the pawn shop. I cried like a baby when I lost that. (Though if we ever do plumbing, I might find it at the bottom of my kitchen drain along with my grandmother's band.) My second one was a little smaller. Love that ring. He gave it to me for Christmas when he asked me to be his again. Dawwww.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok,
I'm concerned about the ring size statistic.
My gf wants a 2ct. ring. Which is HUGE to me, and far larger than anything I'd ever expect a woman to want. On the other hand, she makes 4 times as much as I do. So she's not after me for materialistic reasons. I feel like she doesn't want to be ashamed of it around her wealthy colleagues. Should I be concerned? I'm actually going to get the thing TODAY.

Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Ok,
> I'm concerned about the ring size statistic.
> My gf wants a 2ct. ring. Which is HUGE to me, and far larger than anything I'd ever expect a woman to want. On the other hand, she makes 4 times as much as I do. So she's not after me for materialistic reasons. I feel like she doesn't want to be ashamed of it around her wealthy colleagues. Should I be concerned? I'm actually going to get the thing TODAY.
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


A diamond is just a stone that is grossly overinflated in value because of DeBeers monopoly of supply. 2ct is a massive stone and no doubt not cheap. But if that's what she wants and is expecting (and hopefully she is paying for some of it) then I guess you're up against the wall on that one.

Realizing that isn't really helpful advice whatsoever, I will add --- Congrats to you!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Ok,
> I'm concerned about the ring size statistic.
> My gf wants a 2ct. ring. Which is HUGE to me, and far larger than anything I'd ever expect a woman to want. On the other hand, she makes 4 times as much as I do. So she's not after me for materialistic reasons. I feel like she doesn't want to be ashamed of it around her wealthy colleagues. Should I be concerned? I'm actually going to get the thing TODAY.
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


She is going to have to take it off EVERY TIME she goes to use a hammer. Totally impractical.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Back to the OP.

He calls her a behavioral nightmare.  And then gives her roses for Mother's Day. 

If you tell a woman she's a bltch - or words to that effect - and then kiss her azz - you won't just fail - it will be an epic fail. 

Self awareness is a required ingredient in a happ you marriage.






NobodySpecial said:


> She is going to have to take it off EVERY TIME she goes to use a hammer. Totally impractical.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Back to the OP.
> 
> He calls her a behavioral nightmare. And then gives her roses for Mother's Day.
> 
> ...


Tru dat.


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