# Help PLEASE!!!



## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Hi all, this is my first post, please be gentle.
I need some help in determining the best course of action to take with my wife. Here's the deal -
We've been married 4 years now and have enjoyed a very active sex life both during and before that time. Typically we would have sex every night and sometimes in the morning as well. We now have 2 children 2.5yrs and 7 months old.
I noticed a decline in my wifes sex drive over the past few months and decided to query my wife on this. She told me that she was tired.
She gets an afternoon sleep each day when the eldest has his nap.
Being curious, I started to watch the movements of her vibrator and noticed that it was being used most days. I waited for a period when she'd used it 3 days in a row and asked her when she'd last used it - "not in ages" she tells me........ That's when I told her I'd noticed that she'd been using it a bit. Since then, she's been very careful to return it to it's exact original location - but I have other ways of knowing.
Hmm. So I started to keep a journal of vibrator use vs. sex. What I found was that the vibrator is getting more use than I do. It's worth pointing out that she ALWAYS orgasms when we have sex. No, she's not pretending.
I'm wondering if all of this stems from her body image? She is normally a size 8 - 10 but after the pregnancy she's more 10 -12. She says she's carrying 5 or more kilos than usual (11lbs or so). I've also recently returned to the gym, losing upwards of 5 kilos and looking better than I ever have, could this be part of the problem?
I know she loves me dearly, I just want more intimacy but I'm not sure how to approach the problem. 
Yes, I know I shouldn't be spying on my wife and it's not something I'd normally do but I need to know what's REALLY going on here.
Pleas help!!!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Having kids that young is exhausting. I remember being so glad to get into bed at night because I felt completely emotionally drained and sick to death of being touched. I just wanted to be left alone. I did not have anything else I could give anyone and expected my husband would understand since these were his kids too.

All she has to do to get off with the vibrator is lie there. She doesn't have to give anyone anything.

I would bet this is a temporary situation that will right itself in time. And seriously - stop keeping a vibrator journal - that is not cool. Respect her privacy, please.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Can I assume you're doing you part in caring for the kids? Don't assume an afternoon nap makes up for disrupted sleep. Nothing takes the place of a solid nights sleep. Also, daily sex with some twice a days isn't sustainable long term, and if you're still looking for that you're not doing you're part with the kids or you're not working, or otherwise have way too much time on your hands. You said you're going to the gym; does your wife have a chance to go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

- before you got married the sex was every day (night and morning)
- then after you got married you had two beautiful kids
- now her sex drive has dropped quite a lot

After a woman has kids, she gains unwanted body weight and feels not as sexy. She also has to raise the kids 24/7 which is a job in itself. Her hormones will also be off and will take time to bounce back and in some cases, meds will be required.

Once she gets used to raising the kids, the unwanted weight comes off and her hormones return back to normal, she should get her old usual sex drive back with you, but for now, she uses the vib not because she doesn't want you, but because she spends all her time with the kids and is insecure about her size.

Give her time.

Before you leave for work in the morning, surprise her with a card and flowers for when she gets up. That will make her day.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.
1. No, it's not cool to check up on your spouse but when you're genuinely concerned and she won;t talk about it, what's left?
2. Yes, I'm doing my part in looking after the kids. Probably a hell of a lot more than most self-employed people would manage.
3. If it's body image how do I raise the topic without making her feel that I have a problem with the way she looks (I do NOT have a problem with her looks)? I considered getting her a gym membership after she showed interest in joining a gym and went a few times.
It's not necessarily the sex I crave, it's the intimacy. I just want a to cuddle my wife and feel her skin, touch her body and feel needed and wanted but she keeps coming to bed with her pyjamas on. She used to have a rule that I wasn't allowed to wear anything to bed. How times change!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Are you guys ever able to get away just the two of you without the kids? I mean even for a few hours.

It really does seem like you guys have a good sex life. It is just so draining to have a toddler and an infant at the same time.


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## soulsearch (Aug 2, 2013)

sounds like your wife is a stay at home mom? 

you say you help with the kids. 

she gets to nap each day.

you work and provide for the family, that's YOUR job. therefore, hers is the home and kids. 

how would she react if you told her you were "tired" of each paycheck going down the black hole, and were just going to decide at random that you were keeping them for yourself? it probably would go over very poorly, right?

wish I had an answer for the problem, but there isn't one. it isn't that she's too tired- it's complacency. unfortunately, almost every marriage settles to a point where one person becomes complacent about the needs of the other, and instead of 50/50, an imbalance occurs. if you look around at people you know, you'll see this very often. the few, rare cases where it's not like this are the great marriages, the ones we should all envy.

seems when you are at an imbalance like this, you can either further imbalance it by doing even MORE, which will get your needs met for a time, until the complacent spouse gets used to the "new" normal, or you can slack off some, equalizing the relationship, which will result in reprisals from the complacent spouse.

or, you can leave things status quo.

most of us end up there.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

My wife's sex drive dropped off the chart after our second child was born and it took YEARS for it to make a respectable comeback. You're going to have to deal with not dropping loads every night now that there are kids in the picture. If you can get it once or twice a week, I'd say that's where you should be and content for now. 

Let her know that using her vibrator is fine and you want to watch. Do some mutual masturbation nights. Watch each other and help each other. That way, both orgasm and she may not feel so 'tired' like she would to get ready and have sex. She's doing it anyway so it shouldn't be a tough sell. 

Welcome to fatherhood x 2, bro. At least you have lots of company.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

40isthenew20 said:


> My wife's sex drive dropped off the chart after our second child was born and it took YEARS for it to make a respectable comeback. You're going to have to deal with not dropping loads every night now that there are kids in the picture. If you can get it once or twice a week, I'd say that's where you should be and content for now.
> 
> Let her know that using her vibrator is fine and you want to watch. Do some mutual masturbation nights. Watch each other and help each other. That way, both orgasm and she may not feel so 'tired' like she would to get ready and have sex. She's doing it anyway so it shouldn't be a tough sell.
> 
> Welcome to fatherhood x 2, bro. At least you have lots of company.


Yes, 40's got it down. 

Give her space, and don't feel like you are being replaced. You behavior in the next few years could very well dictate where you are a decade from now in you marriage. Stop trying to do things to make her want more sex. Be a good father, help her out when you can, but DO NOT PRESSURE HER and don't do the dishes thinking that it's going to get you a blow job. If you can't do the dishes just to do the dishes, then DON'T DO THE DISHES!!!

Continue to initiate regularly (not every day--keep it to twice a week for now, if you can live with that). When she rejects, don't show anger, don't huff and puff or whine. Give her a peck on the cheek go find something else to do. And for god's sake have a conversation with her about the importance of physical, non-sexual intimacy with her. Ask her to fit in some non-sexual, skin-on-skin cuddle time. Express that you can respect her not wanting the sex, but that you need to feel close to her in some way. Give her some choices and make sure she knows you're not just trying to "trick" her into sex. Pick a day or two a week on which you have an absolute "no initiating sex" policy so that she can be comfortable with you when you say, "can I give you a back rub" or "how about we sleep nude tonight?" 

My husband and I were in the same shoes you and your wife are in now. We went from having a great ten years of sex before kids to having two children in quick succession (and then a third a few years later), and we didn't handle the changes well. We spiraled into a decade of lost intimacy and low frequency sex because we didn't know how to handle the changes that parenthood wrought. 

Take a deep breath. Your sex life WILL come back, but you're going to have to give it time. Look at it as a marathon, not a sprint. Start planning now. Start reading up on intimacy now. Keep yourself occupied by things other than your wife's vibrator habits. Be the man she married, don't slip into the type of tit for tat behavior that is sometimes advocated here. Don't let resentment eat you up. If you feel like you can't handle it, find a therapist and get some advice on coping. 

Your wife isn't slipping away from you--but you are going to have to get used to sharing her with your children, especially when they are very small. For now, don't be another drain on her energy, don't be another source of work and worry. Give her time to adjust and to get through the very intense mothering that will be required of her for the next few years.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

If your wife is nursing, she literally has less energy for you, and that's not bad at all. She's sustaining life, so expecting her to sustain your erection as frequently as she used to is unreasonable.

My oldest are 22 months apart, and my ex did not cope well with not being #1 energy or attention-wise. He pouted and was passive aggressive with his frustration and anger, which pretty much killed any desire I had for him. His attitude cost him the privilege of nookie as often as he wanted.

And yes, leave the vibrator alone. For all you know, she might think nap time would be a good time to get off, picks it up, then chooses sleep and puts it back down. You're making yourself paranoid and feeding your 'less-thans'.


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## Boottothehead (Sep 3, 2013)

Maybe she's masturbating to put herself to sleep. It's a good way to drop off in a hurry, and if you've only got a little time due to impending toddlers, you need all the sleep you can get. And endorphins.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

The problem is that she isn't being honest, leaving her husband guessing. That is where I would put my time - encouraging her to be honest. It isn't fair. If you were jerking to porn a lot she would probably feel the same way.

Her reasons are her reasons. But her immature way of dealing is unacceptable. 

Lying in marriage undermines trust. It creates distance. Guilt. Over time it builds. 

Is that what she wants in her marriage? 

I would be very frank with her about the morality of lying and the damaging nature of secrets. This it's only partly about sex. It is a lot more about character.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

People are all over this website saying porn is ok unless it causes a man to neglect his wife's needs. I almost can't believe how hypocritical people are being. So it's ok for a woman to neglect her husband in favor of her vibe using the same excuse the porn addicted men use....that it's easier, less work. But not ok for men to use porn in the same way. 

OP if your wife was on here complaining that you were using porn and not having sex with her they'd be all over you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> People are all over this website saying porn is ok unless it causes a man to neglect his wife's needs. I almost can't believe how hypocritical people are being. So it's ok for a woman to neglect her husband in favor of her vibe using the same excuse the porn addicted men use....that it's easier, less work. But not ok for men to use porn in the same way.
> 
> OP if your wife was on here complaining that you were using porn and not having sex with her they'd be all over you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

1. She's not nursing.
2. Yes, I very much feel that I've been replaced.
3. She's going back to work in a few weeks, will be interesting to see how "no opportunity" might change things up a bit. Will keep you all posted, if for no other reason than to help someone else in a similar situation.
4. Thanks for the replies! There is definitely some insight here. Cheers.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> My thoughts are very different than what most have said here. Tired is not an excuse to withhold intimacy.
> 
> First, I am sorry you are here, and welcome!
> 
> ...


When you are raising very young children and recovering from pregnancy and birth, it's a whole different kind of tired. It's more like being completely drained and exhausted. As one poster mentioned, babies and toddlers need something from mom almost constantly, and after a long day of that, mom has nothing more to give - believe me it is draining. Completely different than "I went to bed late last night and I was tired when I got up for work this morning".


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Fair comment, but she seems to be able to make time for her friend in the top drawer.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

I agree completely with Mace17. I've been there. At the end of a long day with two kids constantly in my face and all over me the last thing I wanted was yet another person looking for the same. I told my husband this many times and he understood. Being a stay at home mom with very young kids is emotionally and physically draining. The last thing on my mind those days was having sex. 

As for the friend in the top drawer, I suspect that she still wants the physical release of an orgasm, but does not crave the intimacy. She gets enough of that from her kids 24/7. As the kids get older and they need her less, she will likely find her way back to you. 

Perhaps things will change a bit when she starts going back to work.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

At the end of a long day with my boss(es) in my face all I want to do is come home have a beer and watch some football. But guess what? I would gladly make time for physical intimacy because that's what marriage is.

Being tired from raising kids is no excuse to replace you with a vibrator. That's just cold.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't believe she's using the vibrator as often as you are saying or at all. I think you are really overreacting and obsessed over it.

I've raised one child into adulthood and have two younger ones. Yes, I was exhausted, I never used the vibe. I also had a house to keep up and making sure my family was fed, kids were bathed, ect... Also, the vibe could NEVER replace my husband ever!!! 

Sex every night with young kids is asking a lot. Give your wife space. She is exhausted.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

> I will probably be flamed for this, but here it goes.......


I never flame or judge on discussion boards. It's about trying to understand someone else's POV always.



> because you are now a parent that gives you a license to ignore the person that helped you create said child?


Ignoring your partner's needs is certainly never acceptable. I am only explaining a possible reason for his partner's lack of desire for intimacy. Not everyone's experience is going to be the same. For me personally, after my children were born I found my interest in sex was at it's lowest. It was due in part to hormonal changes and not having needs met elsewhere- my issuewas having time to myself away from my kids to reboot. But circumstances in our lives personally did not afford me much of that. 

From your posts your circumstance was very different than mine, as you stated you worked when your kids were small, you went to college when your kids were small. You were outside the house- and not 24/7 with your kids like some SAHMs are. Like I was. The two circumstances are not the same. 



> I am sensing a thought process that being at home with the kids full time is somehow more exhausting than any job one must leave the house for....No?


You cannot compare the two. They both have their pros and cons. I won't launch into them. But I will say that for me being a SAHM was the most difficult job I have ever had. There are women who are fabulous at juggling it all and make being a SAHM look like a cakewalk. I envy those ladies. 




> Maybe he is "too tired" when he comes home from work to do the wife's "honey do" list or give her a break from the kids the second he crosses the threshold. But he probably does it, hoping that his wife will give him some attention later (he understands she is tired and is trying to make her less tired). But now the wife will turn him down for "expecting" it for doing something she believes he should be doing anyway. Or perhaps he will do too much housework and that will be a turn off to her and she will no longer desire him.


He should help his wife out with the kids because they are his kids after all and should want to spend time with them. Not just with an ulterior motive for sex. 



> If he just waits a few YEARS she will come back to him. That is unacceptable!!


I did not say he had to wait years. That would be unacceptable. There needs to be communication. She has to be able to communicate her needs to him. But to expect things to go back to the way they used to be- sex every day...I think that is unrealistic.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> My response as a whole is directed at the situation not all specific to your response that I quoted.
> 
> I am not saying SAHM job is easier. But I also don't believe that SAHM is the hardest job. It's all hard work. We are all tired. Bottom line, we should all continue to meet our partners needs.



I've also done both and found being at home to be far more exhausting then working, and I have a pretty demanding job now. Being a sahm for me was the hardest job because it was mentally exhausting and I didn't like out. It's important to remember that while it is important to meet your partners needs these things tend to ebb and flow through a relationship, so it's ridiculous to expect your partner to meet all of your needs all of the time. We might agree that a couple of years of limited intimacy is unacceptable but if he can't cut her some slack for a little while he becomes just another demand on her rather than a partner. People can scream, insult her, and demand she do x, y, and z but it won't address anything. They need a discussion where they both lay their needs out and find a compromise they can both live with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

You've got a 7 month old, 2 & 2.5. You are both tired and stressed. Its normal. Sex life taking a hit? Yeah thats normal too and does not mean your relationship is headed for the crapper sexually or otherwise.

You have only been married 4 years and are neck deep into the 3rd child. You have noticed a 'decline' over the past few months which coincides with the 3rd child. You are concentrating on her weight and now going so far as to track the position of her vibrator in her droor - also making a 'journal' and you now feel she is lying to you over how often she uses it. So you have a problem yourself on that one - what you dont trust her anymore?

My advice? Dig in and make your family work first. There is something I heard from more than one person that has 3+ kids... "2 kids feels like 2, 3 kids feels like 5". Even with the 2 of you now you are outnumbered and its just more work. Lots more.

This is *precisely* the time when you need to step it up a notch and do more on the domestic front. Yeah you have your job - I get it. Lots of us do. So does she and she is just as much on the hook to do more as you are. But you now what? I bet both of you are feeling like you are doing all you can - but you are failing - both of you. The evidence is that you are here looking for advice to 'fix' something.

The 'alpha male' crowd here hates this suggestion. You are doing 'your' job and she should be doing 'hers' and sex is simply something you both need to 'commit' to and satisfy your 'needs'. I think this is BS.

What really should happen is that when both of you are feeling overwhelmed - you need to find a way to survive it and improve on it and things WILL ease up. This is a classic difficult spot in a normal relationship in a growing family - right?

You can keep your 'journal' on vibrator position or you can maybe do something more productive. You choose NOW to start going back to the gym? Why? Does she get excercise time (or any time) out of the house without the kids too?

Yeah keeping fit is hugely important - but you decide to start doing it now with a newborn in the house even when your wife is telling you she is too tired even to have sex? Not sure of the wisdom of that choice.

The problem I see is that you are focusing on a symptom of the issue while ignoring the realities of the challenges a 3rd child introduces into the family. Its simply not the same as it was when you had 1. Or 2. It doesnt have to be drudgery either - I can *almost* promise you that you will look back on these days and feel they are some of the best (and most difficult) times in your life. If you make it through - you and your wife - your entire family - may be closer than ever. 

Definitely not your 'fault', nor hers. Start finding ways for BOTH of you to get even a little bit of time out of the house so you can decompress. Together, seperately, whatever. Pay a babysitter - 2 if need be. Bring grandma over. Once a month at the least, once a week - better. Put the vibrator thing out of your mind - that ISNT the problem. It simply isnt.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

mace17 said:


> When you are raising very young children and recovering from pregnancy and birth, it's a whole different kind of tired. It's more like being completely drained and exhausted. As one poster mentioned, babies and toddlers need something from mom almost constantly, and after a long day of that, mom has nothing more to give - believe me it is draining. Completely different than "I went to bed late last night and I was tired when I got up for work this morning".


and then your body gets used to this change. If I start working out, I am sore for 2 weeks while the body adjusts, but it adjusts.
She is shutting him out and getting off with a toy frequently. She is being a bad spouse. Not intentional, but needs to be addressed and she needs to change her behavior. She will sour him to her, he will detach, she will pull further away, they will separate or one of them will stray from the relationship.
This needs to be nipped int he bud right now.
Call her out. Leave a note on the vibrators and ask her to hold off today and use you instead. You are dying to be intimate with her. Put a small spec of sand on the note and if she says nothing to you but the spec of sand is gone, then you know she is ignoring your needs, you know she read the note and you are losing her desire for you. She at that point is showing she would rather pretend and ignore than actually respect and care.. If my wife lied to me about all of this she would find out what icy hot felt like. Dip the toy in that and you will find out if she tried to use it.:rofl:


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> You've got a 7 month old, 2 & 2.5. You are both tired and stressed. Its normal. Sex life taking a hit? Yeah thats normal too and does not mean your relationship is headed for the crapper sexually or otherwise.
> 
> You have only been married 4 years and are neck deep into the 3rd child. You have noticed a 'decline' over the past few months which coincides with the 3rd child. You are concentrating on her weight and now going so far as to track the position of her vibrator in her droor - also making a 'journal' and you now feel she is lying to you over how often she uses it. So you have a problem yourself on that one - what you dont trust her anymore?
> 
> ...


Fabulous post, and by far the most productive post here. Can't wait to see the arguments against it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Another Guy has it right on the money, I think. Especially this. 



anotherguy said:


> You've got a 7 month old, 2 & 2.5. You are both tired and stressed. Its normal. Sex life taking a hit? Yeah thats normal too and does not mean your relationship is headed for the crapper sexually or otherwise.


Sex drive is going to ebb and flow for many women (and men) depending on life circumstances. Motherhood, especially of the SAHM variety, is one of those circumstances, for myriad reasons. Men who can't accept this and who panic and start obsessing over it are starting down the path of a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

You can jump up and down and gnash your teeth all you want, but if you start to crowd a woman who feels tapped out, you are planing the seeds of resentment. Trust me, once resentment sits in, you will be in a world of hurt far worse than that of adjusting to a temporary and natural dip in desire. 

Choose your path carefully, OP.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> Perhaps he is concerned it will not be temporary...it will be the new norm.
> 
> Why is there not a compromise? For example, one person wants daily and the other wants 1 x week. Compromise to 3 x/week. this way no one person is getting everything they want.


Because sometimes life isn't "fair."


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

where_are_we said:


> Perhaps he is concerned it will not be temporary...it will be the new norm..


The first time we hit a 'lull' in our sex life... and it was long before we had kids.. we had probably been married about 7 years at that point, together 12...

And thats what you think. 'is this the way it is now'? I agree.

I think its important to reassure the OP that they are young and they suddenly have 3 kids and that this kind of thing happens and will pass if they work hard and are open and enthusiastic about working on the actual challenges of their lives..

but to your second point - I think insisting on a sexual 'compromise' without addressing the real issues here is a terrible mistake. You cant compromise your way into more sex - at least sex that everyone is going to be happy with and will be beneficial to the marriage. This isnt a bargaining chip - its something that happens and that everyone wants and enjoys and seeks in a normal relationship - and GettingIt has it exactly right about ebbing and flowing.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Because sometimes life isn't "fair."


You can choose to refuse to participate in "unfair" alignments.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

treyvion said:


> You can choose to refuse to participate in "unfair" alignments.


Yep.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

nogutsnoglory said:


> ..If my wife lied to me about all of this she would find out what icy hot felt like. Dip the toy in that and you will find out if she tried to use it.:rofl:


Are we sure she is 'lying'? 

...and who cares anyway about her masturbation habits?

Everyone masturbates. Hell, we have sex almost every day and I masturbate petty regularly too to be honest.  (yeah, I am still ashamed to admit it. shrug.)

Frankly - if she is using her vibrator - I say get her a new one and let her _really enjoy it._ This isnt a contest between the vibrator and the husband - this is about people being happy in their lives. If he feels he isnt getting enough - I assure you - icy hot is a moronic suggestion for a 'solution' to the problem if you are looking for 'respect'. Respect isnt taken by force or under threat or fear, its earned.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> I thought marriage was based on compromise and meeting each others needs?
> 
> I am too mature to use "fair or not fair" as an argument for anything.


Sometimes you have to accept that your partner can't meet your needs, not because they are being selfish, but because they honestly can't.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

where_are_we said:


> I thought marriage was based on compromise and meeting each others needs?


You are exactly right.

But.

Is this the time - when they are struggling with a 3rd child - to insist on a sexual 'compromise'? Would you rather have your wife to submit to sex with you even though her heart wasnt in it or would you rather address and correct the issue of feeling overwhelmed and being busy (both of you) and working on figuring out what it takes to raise 3 kids together and then both of you finding out together (again) that you both still love sex together after being 'forged by fire'? Its not about getting your way. Not exactly.

Because thats how it can work. You get over the hump - find out with 20/20 hindsight that you are both playing together for the same team - and your trust in each other grows as does the love. Lust too in some ways.  Maudlin? Perhaps. I find it to be true.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Devotee said:


> I agree completely with Mace17. I've been there. At the end of a long day with two kids constantly in my face and all over me the last thing I wanted was yet another person looking for the same. I told my husband this many times and he understood. Being a stay at home mom with very young kids is emotionally and physically draining. The last thing on my mind those days was having sex.
> 
> As for the friend in the top drawer, I suspect that she still wants the physical release of an orgasm, but does not crave the intimacy. She gets enough of that from her kids 24/7. As the kids get older and they need her less, she will likely find her way back to you.
> 
> Perhaps things will change a bit when she starts going back to work.


So in short, he wasn't replaced by the vibrator, he was replaced by the kids? :\


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> They need a discussion where they both lay their needs out and find a compromise they can both live with.


Does anyone else feel like they've moved into bizzaro land where sex can be considered a CONCESSION in compromise??

I've been through it and it still doesn't register!! I mean, what's the thought process there? The burden of having sex versus the burden of children? "Hey, concede to take the kids off my hands and I'll concede to having sex with you a few times a week."

Is sex really the equivalent of other chores for these women?

It still blows my mind.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Is sex really the equivalent of other chores for these women?
> .


Quite honestly, yes--at some points in my marriage, it was a chore. At some points in my marriage, just being married was a chore!

I'm not defending this as a preferable state of affairs. It's just reality. We are not always the best spouse we can be. Anyone who heads into marriage thinking otherwise has some learnin' to do.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> If my wife lied to me about all of this she would find out what icy hot felt like. Dip the toy in that and you will find out if she tried to use it.:rofl:


:rofl::rofl:

YIKES!!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So in short, he wasn't replaced by the vibrator, he was replaced by the kids? :\


Oh man, telling yourself you're competing with a vibrator is one thing, but being jealous of the kids for mommy's attention? Don't even go there. 

Not if you ever want to have sex with your wife again.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Quite honestly, yes--at some points in my marriage, it was a chore. At some points in my marriage, just being married was a chore!
> 
> I'm not defending this as a preferable state of affairs. It's just reality. We are not always the best spouse we can be. Anyone who heads into marriage thinking otherwise has some learnin' to do.


That's certainly counter to the sex brigade around here that insists how badly women want sex.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Oh man, telling yourself you're competing with a vibrator is one thing, but being jealous of the kids for mommy's attention? Don't even go there.
> 
> Not if you ever want to have sex with your wife again.


Hey, I agree... its a losing proposition. But if one is saying she's tired of constant attention from the kids, then hubby shows up to add to it, and she doesn't want to give anymore attention... isn't that exactly what happened?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Is sex really the equivalent of other chores for these women?


who is 'these women'? Would it be just as accurate to say _These *other* women really crave sex all the time_?

Sometimes I think that sex is the one thing that my wife prefers over everything else we have together. Everything else comes in second place to lesser or greater degrees. But every couple is different - you cant make sweeping generalizations. You can however point out the growing pains that many couples run into with a growing family.

Even so - to the OPS post - when we had 2 very little ones in the house - there were times when we just were not getting down as often as we would have otherwise - but it corrected itself.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

I don't get some of these points. I have been reading here a long time and just started posting.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I read a post from a woman complaining her husband was mastubating and ignoring her. The vast majority of replys from both sexes are almost always that if he is ignoring her needs then he is wrong for masturbating. If she is satisfied then and only then he can have at it.

When I was in his spot I respectfully gave my wife the space she needed. The sex continued on a steady decline with each of the three kids (except when she wanted to have another). I distinctly remember after many years of lower and lower desire trying to convince her I felt neglected and negotiating up to sex once a month. And yes I pitched in and helped because she is my wife and needed it, they are my kids too and I enjoyed taking care of them. I was not doing it to get more sex.

OP, keep an eye on it and if the intimacy stays on a steady decline speak up about it and the vibrator use!


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> You can jump up and down and gnash your teeth all you want, but if you start to crowd a woman who feels tapped out, you are planing the seeds of resentment. Trust me, once resentment sits in, you will be in a world of hurt far worse than that of adjusting to a temporary and natural dip in desire.


His building resentment is also a big factor here. Sure, he might wait it out... and come out the other end completely apathetic toward her, just as she was to him.

I'm sorry, but "tapped out" just isn't an excuse. A SAHMs day isn't any worse than his day stressed out at work. I don't know about others, but I sure don't get a nap at work... most days I barely have time for lunch. I was up just as much as my ex with the kids when they were sick.

You HAVE to find a sustainable balance of feeding the children, the work/chores, and the spouse. Just wholesale cutting one out of the picture is foolish. Convenient to cut out the hubby... because he's the only one you can get away with doing so.

Imagine a husband saying: You know, I'm tapped out by work stress. I'm just not going to do any work around the house anymore. 

Sorry, but that's not how it works.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> who is 'these women'? Would it be just as accurate to say _These *other* women really crave sex all the time_?


Women in these situations who so flippantly throw sex out the window.



anotherguy said:


> Even so - to the OPS post - when we had 2 very little ones in the house - there were times when we just were not getting down as often as we would have otherwise.


To be expected, but when it continues for long periods of time? No. Just no.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys and girls.
I'm going to continue to monitor all of this until she goes back to work. Hopefully the lack of opportunity with her best friend will improve the situation.
From the records I've been keeping, the only thing that stops her from using it EVERY day is exactly that - lack of opportunity.
I will keep you all informed - this might help someone else in a similar situation.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Women in these situations who so flippantly throw sex out the window..


This is where I think you mistake, but thats just me.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> I don't get some of these points. I have been reading here a long time and just started posting.
> 
> I wish I had a dollar for every time I read a post from a woman complaining her husband was mastubating and ignoring her. The vast majority of replys from both sexes are almost always that if he is ignoring her needs then he is wrong for masturbating. If she is satisfied then and only then he can have at it.


Welcome to being a man. You get the shaft.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Antman said:


> Thanks for the advice guys and girls.
> ...From the records I've been keeping, the only thing that stops her from using it EVERY day is exactly that - lack of opportunity.
> ....


in other words - thanks for the advice - Im going to keep doing exacly what I was doing.

good luck. You will need it.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> This is where I think you mistake, but thats just me.


What do you mean? I'm referring to women like OP's wife... like my own ex... or the slew of women who suddenly have no drive even once the tougher family situation is the new normal.

You have to find something sustainable to my thinking. Just cutting important elements of your life out entirely is going to be like pouring acid all over the marriage imo. I'd be even more angry if my ex had behaved as OPs wife... using a vibrator but shutting me down? So she still wants the release, but can't be bothered to release it with him. That's lazy and selfish on an epic scale. That's no different from men who choose porn over their wives.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> That's certainly counter to the sex brigade around here that insists how badly women want sex.


I currently want it once a day, sometimes twice. Does that make me part of this legendary brigade? 

But my drive was stuck at 2-4 times a month, sometimes less, for most of *ten years* after we had kids. And that was only one facet of the marital misery precipitated, in part, by my husband's very unsexy behavior in response to what should have been a temporary, NORMAL drop in drive. You think giving your wife some space and support when she's feeling overwhelmed by motherhood is an unbearable burden? I should let you talk to my husband . . . 

I'm not on here to make excuses for people dismissing the needs of their spouses, but there is a cautionary tale to tell in seeing threats in the movements of vibrators and the exhaustion wrought by months of sleep deprivation.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What do you mean?


what I mean is that you assume women 'flippantly' throw sex out the window and that men always 'get the shaft'. That lack of sex means she is 'lazy and selfish'. The presumption that sex and intimacy is like flipping on a switch. Its not.

Im not sure how many couples with 3 kids under 3 years old that have only been married for 4 years dont find some serious sleep deprivation and stress and sexual apathy to one degree or another. We are talking major changes in their lifestyles and expectations. The suggestion that there is something sinister or dysfunctional going on? I sorta doubt it. Doesnt mean there IS no problem - we always have to be diligent and attentive and loving and all that.

The only problem I see here is the OPs strange fixation on his wifes vibrator as the holy grail to all the difficulties and new challenges he now has in his relationship - and inability to see anything else. I think this is a very bad sign actually.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> I can't equate to this. I am not arguing, and I am guessing I am not the "norm" for women. I am simply providing another WOMAN'S perspective.
> 
> Sex is not a chore. Cooking and cleaning are chores. But also necessities that must be done to maintain a happy life so I do them both. I love to clean, hate to cook (and I suck at it).
> 
> ...


That's great and all, but the OP isn't married to you. 

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but there is great variation in sex drives between individuals. And you have to consider each couple's particular dynamic. I mean, the OP's wife might have even different levels of desire with your spouse or with mine.

Circumstances affect people differently. I know women who were uber horny all through pregnancy and beyond, and I know women like the OP's wife. My drive is normally very high, but it was sabotaged by resentment for a long time. 

Where are the success stories from men who kept journals of their wives' vibrator locations and whined for her attention when she was feeling overwhelmed and exhausted? 

Yeah, that's what I thought.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I currently want it once a day, sometimes twice. Does that make me part of this legendary brigade?


Dunno... I've never asked them if when things get difficult the sex and intimacy are the first things discarded. To my thinking, that's when they should be the most important.



GettingIt said:


> But my drive was stuck at 2-4 times a month, sometimes less, for most of *ten years* after we had kids. And that was only one facet of the marital misery precipitated, in part, by my husband's very unsexy behavior in response to what should have been a temporary, NORMAL drop in drive.


10 years of quasi-sexlessness is a temporary, normal drop in drive??



GettingIt said:


> You think giving your wife some space and support when she's feeling overwhelmed by motherhood is an unbearable burden? I should let you talk to my husband . . .


I gave her support. I gave her 7 years of mostly sexless effort. The first 2 saw narry a complaint. My ex worked full time. We shared the burden of having kids. I had just as many sleepless nights cleaning up puke as she did. Meanwhile, what was my support? Apathy.

I was another chore. Be very careful giving advice to just take it in stride. Every stride comes with a little bitty bag of resentment that builds into quite a load and eventually, you get tired of carrying it. Regardless of whether its promised that she becomes hypersexual in 10 years or not. By then, he has 10 years of resentment accumulated. When he looks at her, THAT is what's going to be on the surface, not love.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Hey, I agree... its a losing proposition. But if one is saying she's tired of constant attention from the kids, then hubby shows up to add to it, and she doesn't want to give anymore attention... isn't that exactly what happened?


I find that attitude a little selfish to be honest. To expect that your relationship and the dynamics in the house are going to go back to the way things were pre-children is very unrealistic. It is some supermom that raises two toddlers 24/7, takes care of the house, cooks, cleans AND has sex everyday with her husband. 

There definitely needs to be a balance and communication in all things. Those years when my girls were toddlers were leaner years sexually. Just like another poster mentioned- every relationship has an ebb and flow to it.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> what I mean is that you assume women 'flippantly' throw sex out the window and that men always 'get the shaft'. That lack of sex means she is 'lazy and selfish'. The presumption that sex and intimacy is like flipping on a switch. Its not.


It sure turns off like a switch. Her desire for sexual release is obviously still there. Maybe he should just jump all over the porn and we can wait for her posts in a few months and tell him how bad of a person he is for doing so.



GettingIt said:


> The only problem I see here is the OPs strange fixation on his wifes vibrator as the holy grail to all the difficulties and new challenges he now has in his relationship - and inability to see anything else. I think this is a very bad sign actually.


The vibrator is only an artifact to assign blame for the deeper resentment that he has been shut out from his source of intimacy. He's in the "lurching around looking for reasons he's been thrown out" stage. Its the same reason women attack porn when their husbands show them no interest.

Its not the vibrator, nor the porn, that is the real problem.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ...Be very careful giving advice to just take it in stride. Every stride comes with a little bitty bag of resentment that builds into quite a load and eventually, you get tired of carrying it...


valid point.

Its also harder when you have only been married for a few years and get thrown into the blender of having a handful of kids to boot. You simply dont have the reservoir of trust and built up over the years and the reserves that have been pumped into the relationship. 

I think couples eventually learn how, and when, to both give and take when it really matters - and how this cuts off larger problems. Couples I know that have been married 20-30-40 years do this very well. It is one thing that really helps.

Its not only 'taking it in stride', its not just a binary decision - it is part of a larger functioning whole as a couple of give and take. Its not 'We are having sex twice a week', thats crazy talk.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Devotee said:


> I find that attitude a little selfish to be honest. To expect that your relationship and the dynamics in the house are going to go back to the way things were pre-children is very unrealistic. It is some supermom that raises two toddlers 24/7, takes care of the house, cooks, cleans AND has sex everyday with her husband.
> 
> There definitely needs to be a balance and communication in all things. Those years when my girls were toddlers were leaner years sexually. Just like another poster mentioned- every relationship has an ebb and flow to it.


There it is again... sex is a chore. Mind blowing. "Ugh, I'm so overwhelmed! I have to entertain, feed and care for the kids all day, I cook, I clean, I change diapers, I have sex, I do the laundry! Its too much!"

To me this is like saying "I'm overwhelmed! I have 4 deadlines on major projects, I have to work 60 hours this week, I change diapers, I cook, I clean, I eat chocolate cake! I do the laundry!! Its too much!

Seriously?

An ebb and flow, sure. Years of once or twice a month sex? Absurd and neglectful.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It sure turns off like a switch...


Does it? Sounds like OP noticed a 'diminishing' over 'months' - how is that like a switch?



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Maybe he should just jump all over the porn and we can wait for her posts in a few months.


Is that what you would do?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> To me this is like saying "I'm overwhelmed! I have 4 deadlines on major projects, I have to work 60 hours this week, I change diapers, I cook, I clean, *I eat chocolate cake!* I do the laundry!! Its too much!.


your real feelings are leaking out.

My own personal bias is that having 3 kids is infinitely more difficult than having a 'difficult' and 'stressful' job out of the house. At least we (ostensibly) deal with adults. Having multiple infant tyrants is draining in ways that are relentless both physically and emotionally.

I totally do not buy into the 'SAHMs have it easy' mindset. No freaking way. We all have it difficult and *perhaps* mom has it no harder than dad - but mom at home with 3 kids might be one of the hardest things in the world. Its also immensely rewarding - partly _because_ it is difficult - same as with any job. But watching and being involved with your kids that closely is its own reward too.

My own dad woked swinging a sledgehammer for 40 years and did some soul crushing manual labor for a very long time. He undoubtedly had some very real demands and job stress on him and careless, brutal bosses. He also said that it was no more difficult than raising the kids at home. I believe him. Im a white collar pansy by comparison to my father but have very real pressures and responsibilities of a different kind - no less real. We all have our challenges and howling at the moon about how good everyone else has it never got anyone anywhere.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Dunno... I've never asked them if when things get difficult the sex and intimacy are the first things discarded. To my thinking, that's when they should be the most important.


Sex sometimes is one of the first things to go when life gets difficult. Very particularly when couples become parents. Understanding this for what is is--normal and temporary--is crucial to not letting resentment get started on either side. And at times, sex has to be separated from intimacy. You can stay intimate through low-sex periods with effort and understanding from BOTH parties.



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> 10 years of quasi-sexlessness is a temporary, normal drop in drive??


Absolutely not. I'm saying ten years of low frequency sex resulted from my reaction to my husband not giving me space. He could very well have decided to divorce me, just as you decided to divorce your wife. And I would have let him go, because the marriage was no picnic for me, either. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I gave her support. I gave her 7 years of mostly sexless effort. The first 2 saw narry a complaint. My ex worked full time. We shared the burden of having kids. I had just as many sleepless nights cleaning up puke as she did. Meanwhile, what was my support? Apathy.


I would posit that you never got to the root of her lack of drive, or, more probably, her loss of desire for you. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I was another chore. Be very careful giving advice to just take it in stride. Every stride comes with a little bitty bag of resentment that builds into quite a load and eventually, you get tired of carrying it. Regardless of whether its promised that she becomes hypersexual in 10 years or not. By then, he has 10 years of resentment accumulated. When he looks at her, THAT is what's going to be on the surface, not love.


I do not advise to take it in stride. Read through some of my threads, and read my original response to my OP in this thread. I council very much that effort is made to understand the root causes of loss of desire. It's almost always (maybe always) more complicated than one spouse just deciding to toss intimacy out the window. Anyone who chooses to believe that is accepting--nay, inviting-- defeat.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Its not the vibrator, nor the porn, that is the real problem.


On this, we can agree.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Sex sometimes is one of the first things to go when life gets difficult. Very particularly when couples become parents. Understanding this for what is is--normal and temporary--is crucial to not letting resentment get started on either side. And at times, sex has to be separated from intimacy. You can stay intimate through low-sex periods with effort and understanding from BOTH parties.


:iagree:

I really agree with this. Well said.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It sure turns off like a switch. Her desire for sexual release is obviously still there. *Maybe he should just jump all over the porn and we can wait for her posts in a few months and tell him how bad of a person he is for doing so.
> *


How does porn always get dragged in to every thread . . . :scratchhead:


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> There it is again... sex is a chore. Mind blowing. "Ugh, I'm so overwhelmed! I have to entertain, feed and care for the kids all day, I cook, I clean, I change diapers, I have sex, I do the laundry! Its too much!"
> 
> To me this is like saying "I'm overwhelmed! I have 4 deadlines on major projects, I have to work 60 hours this week, I change diapers, I cook, I clean, I eat chocolate cake! I do the laundry!! Its too much!
> 
> ...


Your lack of respect for the work that SAHMs do - that is mind blowing.

But I do agree that years of once or twice a month when one partner is left wanting is not acceptable.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> and that men always 'get the shaft'.


That was a joke about this forum and the propensity to attribute more blame on the man. But hey... I guess in principle, I can't say I disagree with the notion that this is the wider case either so... 

I just thank my lucky stars that my ex worked. Else, I'd be paying her even more alimony for the favor of having been cut off - even if I had divorced her before all my escapades. Lesson: leave before year 10. lol

The workaholic guy that shuts out his wife because of his stressful work isn't given even a sliver of the leeway given to moms who shut their husbands out. Oh, but she's a mom... and her life is so rough. I mean, she only gets one nap.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

dont be bitter, man.


way too easy to fall into the trap and start believing everyone else has it so much better.

--

What I wouldnt give for a nap, some days. Now that I am an old fart and all.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Does it? Sounds like OP noticed a 'diminishing' over 'months' - how is that like a switch?


Did in my case. Has in most of the cases I've been told. I guess OP is ahead of the game!



anotherguy said:


> Is that what you would do?


No, what I did is excessively documented on this forum. I won't go into it again. Of course, if my ex was overwhelmed, she never expressed it. She sure had time to schedule a hundred thousand kids activities in our non-work time.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> dont be bitter, man.


I'm sorry, but when I hear the SAHM stuff placed higher than having any other regular job stress, I can't help but be bitter. Life is hard. That's what it is. You take time and invest in what's important, you don't go hunt down any freaking excuse. Pretty soon she'll tell him, "I'm so overwhelmed, maybe if you did the dishes more", then it will be "If you took care of the kids and let me sleep in on the weekend, I'd have more energy at night."

Good luck to OP. I just know that the excuse train just keeps adding cars.



anotherguy said:


> What I wouldnt give for a nap, some days. Now that I am an old fart and all.


Ha... you don't get enough naps? There goes your wife's sex life.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> your real feelings are leaking out.
> 
> My own personal bias is that having 3 kids is infinitely more difficult than having a 'difficult' and 'stressful' job out of the house. At least we (ostensibly) deal with adults. Having multiple infant tyrants is draining in ways that are relentless both physically and emotionally.
> 
> I totally do not buy into the 'SAHMs have it easy' mindset. No freaking way. We all have it difficult and *perhaps* mom has it no harder than dad - but mom at home with 3 kids might be one of the hardest things in the world. Its also immensely rewarding - partly _because_ it is difficult - same as with any job. But watching and being involved with your kids that closely is its own reward too.


OMG! SEXY! *fanning myself and flushing*




DvlsAdvc8 said:


> There it is again... sex is a chore. Mind blowing. "Ugh, I'm so overwhelmed! I have to entertain, feed and care for the kids all day, I cook, I clean, I change diapers, I have sex, I do the laundry! Its too much!"
> 
> To me this is like saying "I'm overwhelmed! I have 4 deadlines on major projects, I have to work 60 hours this week, I change diapers, I cook, I clean, I eat chocolate cake! I do the laundry!! Its too much!
> 
> Seriously?


Um, NOT sexy. *Turns back to e-book mommy porn.*

See how that works?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'll concede that being a SAHM to very small children is like a 60 hour work week - if your 60 hour work week involves cleaning up poop and gross, mashed veggies and smelling like spit-up and being overweight and having someone clinging to your body during most of your waking hours. Also, if you are nursing, your sexy breasts that were used for intimacy are now someone's food source and are heavy and burn and leak when you orgasm. And your vag that used to be so much fun is like the Sahara. Not a sexy time in life. Not a sexy time.

Perhaps if your 60 hour week were at a nursing home it would be equivalent? 

I don't think any person has said this state of affairs is a permanent one. It sounds like the woman enjoys sex and having sex with her husband. It's not the time to be keeping score (or a vibrator journal) because this is going to cause resentment. How about he arranges for a babysitter and gets the woman out of the house and away from the kids and get her a little booze and he'll be in business.

I was unwell and did not feel like myself for 2 whole years after I had my second child. That was the year I thought we were going to divorce. We move on. It didn't ruin my desire for sex in the least. Once I got done breastfeeding and joined Weight Watchers and lost 20 pounds we were in business.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Quite honestly, yes--at some points in my marriage, it was a chore. At some points in my marriage, just being married was a chore!
> 
> I'm not defending this as a preferable state of affairs. It's just reality. We are not always the best spouse we can be. Anyone who heads into marriage thinking otherwise has some learnin' to do.


Chores need to be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I'm sorry, but when I hear the SAHM stuff placed higher than having any other regular job stress, I can't help but be bitter. Life is hard. That's what it is. You take time and invest in what's important, you don't go hunt down any freaking excuse. Pretty soon she'll tell him, "I'm so overwhelmed, maybe if you did the dishes more", then it will be "If you took care of the kids and let me sleep in on the weekend, I'd have more energy at night."
> 
> Good luck to OP. I just know that the excuse train just keeps adding cars.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, i have to comment on this. I'm going to guess you've never been a stay at home and thus really have no basis to make any comments about what it's like. I have, and now I have a pretty demanding job, and I can tell you that for me the stay at home part was much harder. See when you think of stay at homes you probably think of housework/ meals/naptime etc.and think "well sh!t, I don't get any of that at my job. What a tough life....". Except that since you haven't done it you don't understand the less tangible sacrifices; you are basically isolated, when you're getting up at night you're never rested because your sleep cycle doesn't exist, and generally the demands on your time never end. If the working spouse comes home and does anything for the kids they deserve a trophy for doing a huge favor because hey, they already have a job. Except that said job has a quittin time. When I come home from work I can relax, even though I also have kids that need dinner/hw help/etc, but since I have a job it's understood that I'm entitled to decompress. When I was at home it was expected that I handle pretty much everything, and then my now ex would tell me that he'd love to have my easy life. Even in this case they've got three little kids and OP still has gym time on top of his job, which of course he's entitled to do because he has a job. Any break he gives her to go to the gym is just that, a break, which of course is a big favor to her because her job is 24/7 kids. OP, I really didn't mean to be nasty there, I'm just trying to make a broader point. For me the mental sacrifices were enormous and I hated it; if you've never done it you can't understand. If you have then i take back everything I just said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ...Pretty soon she'll tell him, "I'm so overwhelmed, maybe if you did the dishes more", then it will be "If you took care of the kids and let me sleep in on the weekend, I'd have more energy at night."


nah. Thats the 'slippery slope' fallacy. It doesn't normally work that way. I just dont believe that dysfunction is the normal course of events and that we need to gird ourselves against the eventuality.

I know how that sounds. "spoken like someone who has never been burned.", right? OK. But I feel living in fear like this is worth avoiding if you can. Why the hell is someone married if they are making negative and combative motivation judgements like that and protecting themselves against their spousal enemy. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ...Ha... you don't get enough naps? There goes your wife's sex life.


:lol: Knowing her, she might jump me while I was sleeping.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> nah. Thats the 'slippery slope' fallacy. It doesn't normally work that way. I just dont believe that dysfunction is the normal course of events and that we need to gird ourselves against the eventuality.
> 
> I know how that sounds. "spoken like someone who has never been burned.", right? OK. But I feel living in fear like this is worth avoiding if you can. Why the hell is someone married if they are making negative and combative motivation judgements like that and protecting themselves against their spousal enemy.
> 
> ...


She wants to jump you because you get it. Kudos to you sir.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I would posit that you never got to the root of her lack of drive, or, more probably, her loss of desire for you.


^^This^^

IMHO, this is where most men (couples) fail.

If you don't get between her ears (Keep the lines of communication open) forget about getting between her legs...

It takes a LOT of work to have open meaningful communication and putting your relationship first when raising a bunch of kids. Yes, the sex comes and goes, but that's normal IMO. But, keeping the marriage alive and well is the key. The sex will come back if the communication can be managed. I don't ever remember feeling deprived of sex when the kids were infants and toddlers.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Chores need to be done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NOT SEXY!! (*I'm feeling extra tired tonight babe. I'm going to take the guest bedroom.*)


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I have a 3 weeks old. We wanted 3 but after reading what some ladies saying I think I might not want anymore! I hate the thought of being too tired for sex or just intimacy. I have no desire for toys and right now while I can do NOTHING but take care of hubs  I don't know how I can last for 3 more weeks. I suppose as soon as I am "clear for takeoff" baby will probably move out of her low maintenance phase and will want to play or fuss all night!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> I have a 3 weeks old. We wanted 3 but after reading what some ladies saying I think I might not want anymore! I hate the thought of being too tired for sex or just intimacy. I have no desire for toys and right now while I can do NOTHING but take care of hubs  I don't know how I can last for 3 more weeks. I suppose as soon as I am "clear for takeoff" baby will probably move out of her low maintenance phase and will want to play or fuss all night!


There are plenty of women who sail through motherhood with their high drive and their desire for their spouses intact! 

And can't you at least have an orgasm while you wait for the all clear for PIV?


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> The problem is that she isn't being honest, leaving her husband guessing. That is where I would put my time - encouraging her to be honest. It isn't fair. If you were jerking to porn a lot she would probably feel the same way.
> 
> Her reasons are her reasons. But her immature way of dealing is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth. 

It works both ways for men and women. 

If she is MB'ing and denying/ignoring your needs - it's not right. 

I'm a mother. I had a toddler and a baby. I still had sex. I was intimate with my kids - yes. But I still craved my husband. 

I think you two need to have a discussion about MB and also set some boundaries or something. I have the same problem in my relationship - except I'm the W and I compete with a hand and videos, so I'm sorry I can't offer too much advice to help solve your problem - only wish you the best. 

I think secrecy and withholding intimacy are some of the worst things. They make the other spouse feel completely awful. I know I do. 

There's no excuse to please yourself and ignore your spouse. Sorry, I don't agree with those who say she's got a free pass because of children. You're her husband. Period. 

End rant, sorry.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> I have a 3 weeks old. We wanted 3 but after reading what some ladies saying I think I might not want anymore! I hate the thought of being too tired for sex or just intimacy. I have no desire for toys and right now while I can do NOTHING but take care of hubs  I don't know how I can last for 3 more weeks. I suppose as soon as I am "clear for takeoff" baby will probably move out of her low maintenance phase and will want to play or fuss all night!


Congratulations Committed! I was thinking about you and wondering if you had your baby yet. A little girl? Lovely! Hope you are all well.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

notmarriedyet said:


> Quoted for truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This ^ is the problem. When I asked my wife when she last used her vibrator she said "not in ages". Keep in mind that sh'e used it two days earlier, twice the day after that and also once that very day..... Define "ages" I guess....
When I suspected something was up I had to form a plan, knowing that she won't talk to me about it, I had to go covert.
I set up a voice recorder in the room.
I also make the bed every morning and I can quickly tell if she's had a nap when I get home.
On one occasion, I came home a little earlier than usual to find the wife sitting in the lounge room. Walked into the bedroom to get changed and notice that the bed is different.
The recording reveals that she had actually gone to bed 1 minute before I arrived home (can hear my vehicle pull up in the background) only to spring out of bed and pretend nothings happening....... Really.
Hence, I will continue to monitor this crap until work recommences, keeping a log of vibrator use vs. sex and see if I can draw any further conclusions.
At this point, i seem to get sex only when the opportunity for self pleasure isn't available.
Very much feeling like I'm playing 2nd best atm.
The fact that she's coming to bed naked suggests to me that it's mostly a body image issue - postg pregnancy body. I sooo hope I'm right.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Is all this data going to get you laid when you present your findings of you bugging her and the angle at which her vibrator is in the drawer? I don't know your wife but I'm going to guess this isn't going to get you laid.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Antman said:


> Fair comment, but she seems to be able to make time for her friend in the top drawer.


I have to agree. I have referred to my concerns about vibrators in other post. If she can make time for a vibrator she can make time for her husband. What she is doing is wrong there's no other way to say it I don't care if she's tired I had babies too and I understand that. However if she has enough energy for vibrator she has enough energy for sex. Unless he makes her get on top of all of the time he probably does most of the work anyway. 

Sorry for the run on sentences. 

Hey okay if you thought about having the vibrator meet with a terrible accident? What about tying a little string on it with a noteasking her if she wants you to pick up new batteries to call you at work. 

If you wanted to be mean you could tell her to call you at the strip club 

I don't recommend that but its amusing to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Oh man, telling yourself you're competing with a vibrator is one thing, but being jealous of the kids for mommy's attention? Don't even go there.
> 
> Not if you ever want to have sex with your wife again.


Well to hear my husband tell it that's what happened with him and his ex wife. She became mom and he got cut out. 

Having children is a serious strain on a marriage. If the two people on geared toward one another with the children coming in second say for immediate needs and long-term nurturing there can be a lot of problems. To minimize the way the OP is feeling is unfair. To call him a liar about her vibrator use isn't fair. I personally I'm a whole lot surprised with the number of women saying that it's okay that she is jerking off and not giving her husband sex because she's tired. Isn't that what men say when they have gotten to the point where they choose porn over their wife? 

Yes she had children. But that doesn't make her something special under the Sun. If she doesn't want to lose her marriage she should wise up. It may seem like a little problem to some folks but if this type of thing continues over the next 10 years it will lead to a divorce. 

I think there's also another danger. Sometimes when you quit having sex with you spouse it becomes difficult to go back. Should she's getting her release she doesn't feel immediately need for sex with him. 

I hope the OP confront her and give it to her straight no pun intended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

By the way the longer you wait the difficult is going to be because she's going to turn it against you for spying on her

Leave a note on it tell her you will talk to her when you get home and watch her squirm when you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Antman, to be quite frank, you are part of the problem here. In fact, for you, you are the biggest part. You can't control your wife. You can however control you.

Stop with the bull**** cloak and dagger vibrator watch. You have enough data. More won't help. You are hurtling down the wrong path. Believe me, I know. At one point after our third, sex was infrequent. The signals were always negative, but every once in a while I'd attempt to initiate, only to be denied. There's only so much I could take. I never, ever bought in to trading chores for sex, but she would say things that were obvious attempts to do this. Or rather, I should say trade chores for the possibility of sex. As I say, I never bought in to that. I did my chores because they're my responsibility. That is, the ones I was allowed to do, the ones I would not get criticized for not doing exactly the way she would do them. Lots of fodder for resentment both ways. I got so fed up with rejection after rejection that at one point I figured I might as well listen to what her actions were telling me. I stopped asking. Completely. For a year. I slept in another room. I decided to wait her out to see what would happen. 

It got to her. She wondered what was wrong. She decided it was her and she made a concerted effort to lose weight. It was not about that, I never stopped desiring her, I just accepted the overwhelming message she sent, and stopped seeking her as an outlet. But guess what she did not do that whole year? What I did not do either?

Talk to each other. Openly. Honestly. What did we really feel, deep down? What did we need? What we're we scared of? What did we like about each other? What did we dislike?

You need to communicate. You need to break through the fear and show up in your own damn life, as you, warts and all, and so does she. Now remember, you cannot control her. You can set the example. You can lead. You can start talking. You can start listening. You can challenge her if you aren't getting answers that make sense. You can control the urge to get defensive, and begin to actively pursue cooperation, negotiation and partnership. Be genuine. Be worthy. 

And in the end, if it gets to it, if after all that, she prefers the energized bunny to you? Listen to that. Be the best father you can be for your kids always, and get a divorce.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow, you've got your bedroom bugged? That's going to make your attractive to her, not. When your wife finds out whatever connection you still have is going to be in the crapper. I can agree she should be more honest about things but something about this leaves a bad taste. It's going to backfire on you. And you're just as bad; spying on her bedroom habits and snarky vibrator comments instead of an open and honest discussion with your wife? Immature and unattractive. You have three little kids at home yet you still have gym time, you said earlier that you "help" more than most employed people would, so translation: not very much, and you don't see an issue? If this is where you are just file for divorce and be done because the bed you're making right now isn't going to be very comfortable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Bugging the bedroom is a really, really, really bad idea! 

I can't even imagine what she'll say when she finds out...I suspect it would be over because you crossed the line.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

T&T said:


> Bugging the bedroom is a really, really, really bad idea!
> .


It is. I'd leave my husband and divorce him if he did this. Seriously. It's stepping way over the line. 

I had an obsessive controlling ex h. I left him and met a wonderful man a few years later.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> OMG! SEXY! *fanning myself and flushing*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I saw how it worked in real life. I had AG's opinion years ago... and got years of sexlessness for my trouble.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> As a SAHM who gets to go to the office, I've tried to pinpoint what it is that is so draning @ home. I think a huge chunk is home stops being an oasis like it is when you get out. All the stressors are in your face all the time...which would make sense that the SAP wants a little respite in form of chores and why sex seems to become one of them.
> I dunno. Just musing.


I understand that, but do you think its any different for the man with a SAHM? Never applied to me, but friends of mine say they get bombarded upon arriving home to the degree that they'd rather put in extra hours at work. Throw in denial of affection and I imagine that's hell across the board.

Seems to me that sex would be one of the few outlets you have left to maintain the relationship.

In my marriage, I accepted that there would be little sex while she was breast feeding. My ex breast fed for a year with each. I accepted being placed on the back burner.

The problem was that it never returned to normal. This was the new normal. Even worse was all the bs used to justify the new normal - excuses that I bought and addressed only to find the next excuse ready and waiting.

My approach wasn't unlike what AG describes, but after 6 or 7 years of it, her account was so far in the negative that I closed it.

Added: btw, I took leave after the second was born. I stayed home with the kids for a month after she had to go back to work. Its not like I haven't been home with young children. No, I don't get the fuss. At worst I missed having another adult to talk to and I wanted to eat out more. In terms of burden, I thought it was pretty easy once you set a routine and stick to it. My oldest woke up at 6 am like clockwork, my son (the infant) slept in 2-3 hour increments. So for about 3 hours of the afternoon - both kids were sleeping and I ended up doing freelance work that later became my side business. Changing diapers is hard? It takes 20 seconds. Half of my time was spent playing on the floor or watching pbs sprout, and the other half bored.

I prefer my professional job, but not because staying home was hard. Stick to a routine so the kids know exactly what to expect day in and day out and things tended to go like a well oiled machine. The worst of my month was that my son got an ear infection and was inconsolable for awhile.

There was never even a week that month where I didn't want sex - individual days, sure, whole weeks? Never. Rather, I'd say I wanted that time even more. I just played emasculated Mr. Mom all day. So at night I wanted to reclaim my inner caveman and get some from my wife. I didn't press it, but I certainly wanted it. You know what being understanding got me? Nothing.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

We all bring a healthy dose of our own experiences to the advice we offer, don't we? I can appreciate that folks who have struggled with denied intimacy are going to see a huge threat in the wife's behavior. I get that--it seems that most people on TAM arrived here from that position. 

In my case, I see myself in the OP's wife and I have a different perspective to offer. I think he's smothering her with behavior that seems controlling and obsessive and "not sexy." I think he is creating a situation that will produce results counter to what he wants--the "self fulfilling prophesy." Later, when the marriage has been without intimacy for years and years, he'll look back and say, "It all started with that vibrator!" Not true, I would say. It all started with how you reacted to the vibrator, OP.

I relate to his wife because I was overwhelmed by motherhood and it did temporarily lower my sex drive. This isn't every woman's experience, but this is a *common result* of motherhood for a lot of women. It's not an "excuse" for not having sex, but for many women it is an *honest reason.* _It does need to be addressed and talked about--it should NOT be ignored--but expecting a woman just to continue to put out when she's feeling tapped out is a fool's errand. _

I also bring, as my experience, a husband who made some of the mistakes that the OP is making and who now rues them and has learned from them. I do not bring a husband who lacks respect for me and for himself, however, and perhaps this is where common experience can no longer serve me in offering advice to the OP. 

If my husband had reacted the way the OP has reacted, I would have divorced him. Gross violations of privacy are a deal breaker for me. Then again, I would have looked my husband in the eye and told him it was none of his fvcking business how many times I'd used the vibe that day. If he wanted to discuss our intimacy and how his needs weren't being met, fine. Try to control how I get pleasure from my own body? Boundary problem. 

If the wife's dishonesty about her masturbation habits is a deal breaker for the OP, then he should tell her this. If he remains unsatisfied with her behavior, then time to consider whether or not he wants to be in the marriage any longer. Being evasive about how often one masturbates is one thing, spying on your spouse by hiding recording devices and keeping vibrator journals is another. If you can't tell the difference, then . . . . well, I don't know what to say. 

So yes, it totally comes down to communication. In my mind, the OP is backing his wife into a corner and crossing lines. He can talk to her about how he feels shut out and emotionally isolated by the decline in the frequency of sex. He can talk to her about how her masturbation is making him feel insecure and undesired. _He should expect honest conversation and tell her when he thinks he's not getting it._ But instead he's making the situation worse by acting like a controlling creep. He's lost respect for himself and, hands down, this has to be the unsexiest thing in the world. Will it work with his wife? Who knows. All I can say is that it wouldn't have worked for me. 

I also have to add that healthy relationships can weather ebbs and flows in sex drives for one partner or another. Ebbs and flows are normal, and there are constructive ways to deal with the hurt feelings that result. Not for a minute do I think that the OP's wife shouldn't be expected to talk to her husband about this and resolve it. But we are grown ups. _We use our words._ Anyone who can defend the OP's methods doesn't understand the "healthy" in "healthy relationship."

One more thing: my troll sensor was triggered pretty strongly at some point by the OP. I normally don't waste my time when this happens, but some of the side conversations happening in this thread seemed useful. The last post from the OP was an eye opener to me, however. I don't think I have anything else of value to offer to him that I've not already said.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Congratulations Committed! I was thinking about you and wondering if you had your baby yet. A little girl? Lovely! Hope you are all well.


Thanks!


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Antman said:


> This ^ is the problem. When I asked my wife when she last used her vibrator she said "not in ages". Keep in mind that sh'e used it two days earlier, twice the day after that and also once that very day..... Define "ages" I guess....
> When I suspected something was up I had to form a plan, knowing that she won't talk to me about it, I had to go covert.
> I set up a voice recorder in the room.
> I also make the bed every morning and I can quickly tell if she's had a nap when I get home.
> ...


All this VAR stuff is going to do is end up really really really pissing you off. You already know what she's doing. You already know she won't talk to you about it.

There is no third party involve so you should confront hard. There is no reason that one would be MB that often and denying her husband unless there are deeper issues.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

We probably have a case of nice guy syndrome on our hands. He confronted her and she lie so he doesn't know what to do. So he's avoiding and collecting evidence trying to build up his own confidence thinking that once he has enough evidence it will somehow make him more manly and he'll be able to do it. Perhaps she's the kinda guy that needs to blow up before he's able to talk to someone. I hope that's not the case because it is definitely not going to help it 

Thinking about it Mike joke idea of leaving a note titled a string around it isn't a half bad idea. But instead of saying something snide, joke.

Hey sexy, if you need new batteries let me know I'll pick them up on my way home. Haha.  but seriously, let's talk hun. I love you very much. 

If you are a Christian check out Focus on the Family. They might have some information that will help you talk to her not just about your needs but about the longer term marriage and how you want it to be a close one so that the two of you can raise your family in a way that shows mom and dad not only love each other but you're crazy about one another. And if there are things that she would like you to do that would increase your attraction to you after to think about them I let you know. 

Assuming you do help out in a house in your help with the children and you do the things that are generally expected of a husband as the fella before me stated don't get into trading chores for potential sex. While a woman will definitely lose attraction for my man who doesn't help, if a man already helps then the problem is she's lost attraction in general. Thinking about it I wonder if it's one of the shelf delusional things that we women tell ourselves when we don't recognize that the real problem is either a lack of attraction in general or resentment.

I think the key for this first conversation is it to iron everything out. Its to recognize that there is a problem and to think about how it can be addressed. Then you could request that you both keeping notebook and as you think of things that either positively or negatively affect your desire for sex and your desire for one another. Then set up a plan to discuss in a week.

Under what circumstances the next conversation takes place is important. If you can go out someplace together without the children it would be helpful because you know you can't get into a big fight and your attention is not t toward the children. 

I'm going back and forth about how you should behave during that week. If you normally initiate a couple of times a week maybe don't initiate all. On the other hand maybe you should just behave is still always do. Other folks may have thought on that and can help out. 

You know it, even if you aren't a Christian 4 over there and read some of the articles that are written about the place of sex in marriage because I think it would provide a more gentle way for you to discuss this issue. 

I'm also not sure how much to bring up the vibrator. Its possible if she were having regular sex with you with regular orgasms that she would put the vibrator size. But it's possible she wouldn't. And that would concern me because if she's getting better those from the vibrator its going to diminish her interest in you. And I always worry about the loss of sensitivity with vibrator. The problem with them is that they are too good. 

Does the vibrator ever make it into your partnerEd sex?

It might be fun once in awhile as something different but I wouldn't bring it in all of the time. 

I know you said that she owes all the time and you are certain she's not faking it. Since she's hiding the vibrator from you it's also possible that she really is faking it. For instance if you think she is orgasming through intercourse it is possible that she isn't really. There are huge number of women who cannot oh from intercourse or very rarely do. I regret that I am one of those women. 

If it turns out that she has not been fully satisfied I hope you have the key go to take her hopefully not criticism but guidance. But then since she's lying about the vibrator and if she were faking it I am doubtful that she would be honest and tell you. 

The two things on that. When you do have sex make sure she gets plenty of manual stimulation and try to get her to orgasm from that. Secondly she might not lie so don't go into the conversation with the expectation. But if you think that it's a possibility that she does lie to you because she has a difficult I'm talking about sex you could try to find a book that you could read together and then leave one another note about your thoughts or try to see a professional. Attempting it on your own if done correctly meaning no pressure no shame UHF what is being told to you you think about it you don't give immediate answers and you definitely don't get angry and you keep the discussions short you could set the stage where by being a professional would be less scary. 

If you do take her out for the discussion make the discussion only hey short part of your time out together. If the two of you rarely get out the last thing you want to do is make the idea of spending time alone unpleasant. 

Here's another idea for during that week. What if each day you each write something that she does that you really enjoy. Don't be raunchy or explicit. Things that make you feel loved and things that make you not only want sex, but sex with HER. Ask her to do the same for you. 

For instance, I love the way my husband kisses. He kisses deeply and he loves kissing. (If you stopped doing that better start again! ) I love when I lay my head on his lap and he puts his warm hand my shirt and on the small of my back. 

I don't know what small things she does that you find special but try to identify them.

Sigh. All of my musings are of course expensive worthless if you don't talk to her. 

This moment will be pointless pivotal in your marriage. So any time you get upset or she gets upset it is time to back off with an explicit agreement to talk more at a specific time. If she feels you will blindside her she will avoid you and stonewall. 

If this is bigger than you can handle, get help. 

And for all you defenders of a woman's right to vibe remember that anything that detracts or usurps your spouse is a form of infidelity. It erodes your connection. It promotes selfishness and independence. Marriage needs independence. And with whom or what you release the chemicals of sex you bond to/with. Before anyone balks at the idea of bonding with a piece of plastic, I bet the OP's wife looks forward to her time with her little friend. The pleasure has in this case replaced her husband. In other cases it is just easier and less work and you get off faster and... 

What does that sound like? 

Ladies, wise up. Becoming not like men odds not evolution. It is erosion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm sorry, i have to comment on this. I'm going to guess you've never been a stay at home and thus really have no basis to make any comments about what it's like. I have, and now I have a pretty demanding job, and I can tell you that for me the stay at home part was much harder. See when you think of stay at homes you probably think of housework/ meals/naptime etc.and think "well sh!t, I don't get any of that at my job. What a tough life....". Except that since you haven't done it you don't understand the less tangible sacrifices; you are basically isolated, when you're getting up at night you're never rested because your sleep cycle doesn't exist, and generally the demands on your time never end.


Is a month enough to know? I stayed home a month. My ex wanted to maximize how old our kids were before we put them in daycare; thinking they'd be less likely to get sick or better able to handle the other kids germs. So I stayed home when she had to go back to work.

Developing routines makes staying home pretty easy imo. Even your sleep adjusts. You get 1.5 hour increments where you can - get much more and you'll feel bad, get much less and you'll feel bad. It always had to be 1.5 hr increments. I did the same from time to time w the Marines. A person doesn't actually need 8 hours contiguous sleep (which is really several sleep cycles)... in fact, before electricity, pretty much everyone got "two sleeps", which a several hour wake period in the middle of the night. You need a certain amount of full sleep cycles per day, doesn't matter where you get them. After the end of my month, I was still getting up in the middle of the night wide awake... and struggling to stay awake at work in the afternoon - for another several weeks.

I agree the isolation was by far the worst. Hence why I felt that intimate time with your spouse would be pretty high on the priority list. It was for me. But I also got out of the house every day as part of my routine... just to be somewhere different if nothing else. I'm a busy body.



lifeistooshort said:


> If the working spouse comes home and does anything for the kids they deserve a trophy for doing a huge favor because hey, they already have a job. Except that said job has a quittin time. When I come home from work I can relax, even though I also have kids that need dinner/hw help/etc, but since I have a job it's understood that I'm entitled to decompress. When I was at home it was expected that I handle pretty much everything, and then my now ex would tell me that he'd love to have my easy life. Even in this case they've got three little kids and OP still has gym time on top of his job, which of course he's entitled to do because he has a job. Any break he gives her to go to the gym is just that, a break, which of course is a big favor to her because her job is 24/7 kids. OP, I really didn't mean to be nasty there, I'm just trying to make a broader point. For me the mental sacrifices were enormous and I hated it; if you've never done it you can't understand. If you have then i take back everything I just said.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not being unsympathetic to staying home. It is work, your schedule is crazy, and kids are frustrating a lot of the time... and diapers make me want to puke. "DONT TELL ME YOU DON'T LIKE CHEERIOS, YOU AT THEM YESTERDAY!" 

I'm just saying that it wasn't any worse than my regular job. In fact, my regular job has fewer periods of straight relaxation and far less predictability. "Okay kiddos, daddy is played-out, and its officially Dora the explorer time." I want to be able to say that to my clients.

When I was home with the kids I got out of the house more than I did when I wasn't home with the kids. I had a jogging stroller and that was the first thing we did after breakfast. That was about an hour, after which I'd have a shower by putting my son in the little play-pen like thing next to the shower and handing my daughter my phone. Feed the kiddos again a little while after that (and eat something myself) and put the little one down for morning nap and my daughter would watch a show while I semi-napped on the couch. Little one would wake up and then we'd go out - best buy (where my daughter just enjoyed following the line around the isles), motorcycle shop, starbucks, target, playground... whatever came to mind, just because I'm stir crazy and hate being cooped up all the time. 

After that, its getting close to lunch time so we'd go home. Feed again, and put them both down for afternoon nap. I'd usually go to sleep. Wake up, have snacks, and do floor-play time. Yes, I got sick of playing with toys and my daughter telling me to "make him say...". Not really that hard though. Finally before my ex got home, the kids would watch some sprout show while I swapped out the laundry and started diner.

She'd get home and change while I finished dinner. We'd eat, I cleaned up and she'd go sit with the kids and play for a few before taking them in for bathtime. I'd swap out another load of laundry or play video games during bath time. After bath, I'd go dress my daughter and read her a book - while my ex put the little one down. Once the story was over, it was bed time. Both kids down by 7pm. I'd hang around and watch tv with my ex until they were both totally asleep, and then go to the gym. Back at 8 or 830, my ex would head for bed. I'd usually be up another couple hours.

One of our problems was that she went to bed so early. I thought that might be the reason she shut me down all the time, but nothing changed when I started going to bed at her time either.

We were friendly, worked together well, joked and laughed in daily life... everything seemed fine really except that there was just no sex life. Prototype roommate situation and I didn't get married to have a roommate.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Why the hell is someone married if they are making negative and combative motivation judgements like that and protecting themselves against their spousal enemy.


Because the marriage didn't start that way. That this is the way the marriage went, is why I'm not married anymore. Hearing the same song and dance I went through from others probably triggers more than a fair share of cynicism in me.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> ..One more thing: my troll sensor was triggered pretty strongly at some point by the OP..


yup. you are not alone.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> You offer some very useful perspectives in your post. I get it. I really do understand your perspective. The difficulty I have with your standing is that you don't see the other side. It is all the OP fault and in your situation as stated in your words above, it was all your husband's doing.


This thread is not about me, but "seeing the other side" is exactly how I fixed my marriage. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-now-how-i-get-my-husband-trust-me-again.html 

But wouldn't it be better to not get to the point where it needs "fixing" after ten years of damaged intimacy? My advice is geared toward that goal. 

I said it time and again in my posts to this thread and others--ignoring the needs of your partner is wrong. If you feel you cannot meet those needs, you need to be clear as to why and have a plan to correct the situation (a plan which, hopefully, includes your HD partner's support). I encouraged the OP to confront his wife about this. There are two sides to the intimacy issue, but you can't change your spouse, you can only look at yourself and see if there is anything you can change about yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right. How is it going to help the OP for me (or anyone) to validate his behavior? Some people might think he is justified, some people might cheer him on, some people will get satisfaction from how he's handling it because of what they've been through. But I strongly feel that sort of advice is counter productive and damaging. I'm sure the OP (if, indeed, he is not a troll) is hurting, but I'm not here to validate the sh*t out of anyone who is f*cking up as badly as he is. Does his wife has some work to do? No doubt. But she's no here. He is. 



where_are_we said:


> Both parties need to see the others point of view and make some changes.


Agree.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I would posit that you never got to the root of her lack of drive, or, more probably, her loss of desire for you.


lol... ah yes, that old staple of this forum: its always his fault. I would posit that you have no clue about what happened in my marriage.

Of course, I already know how this story ends. It ends with her in MC crying that SHE didn't know why she has no drive, she loves me to death but sex just doesn't cross her mind. She said she thought that was normal and what was supposed to happen as you settle down with kids. She literally said she didn't think sex was that important.

After that, she acted like a horn dog, but you know what? I didn't want her anymore. It was too late. I filed for divorce.

Another thing... its not men's job to decode why the h*ll a woman has no drive. Women need to grow up and express themselves directly and truthfully (as opposed to the bs excuse runaround). I'm sorry, but I didn't get married to play charades, mind-reading and wack-a-mole.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> lol... ah yes, that old staple of this forum: its always his fault. I would posit that you have no clue about what happened in my marriage.
> 
> Of course, I already know how this story ends. It ends with her in MC crying that SHE didn't know why she has no drive, she loves me to death but sex just doesn't cross her mind. She said she thought that was normal and what was supposed to happen as you settle down with kids. She literally said she didn't think sex was that important.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry it didn't end well for you. I hope you find some peace.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> In my case, I see myself in the OP's wife and I have a different perspective to offer. I think he's smothering her with behavior that seems controlling and obsessive and "not sexy." I think he is creating a situation that will produce results counter to what he wants--the "self fulfilling prophesy." Later, when the marriage has been without intimacy for years and years, he'll look back and say, "It all started with that vibrator!" Not true, I would say. It all started with how you reacted to the vibrator, OP.


For the record, my response to my ex's lack of drive after kids was very much acceptance and understanding as you and AG seem to point to. Years went by with only a couple mild mentions of dissatisfaction with our sex life. As time went on, I escalated it further and further... until finally, I stopped seeking her and waited to see if she noticed. She didn't. There wasn't another man. There wasn't even a vibrator, erotic novel or even a celebrity hunk. There was only her casual disinterest in sex.



GettingIt said:


> It's not an "excuse" for not having sex, but for many women it is an *honest reason.* _It does need to be addressed and talked about--it should NOT be ignored--but expecting a woman just to continue to put out when she's feeling tapped out is a fool's errand. _


A reason I had perfectly accepted. There is a point however, when you realize that its not coming back and begin to hunt for reasons and express discontent.

What you and AG describe was quite close to how I responded and it cost me 7 years of misery questioning my performance, questioning my worth, questioning her love... feeling manipulated and used. Isolated and trapped. In short, betrayed... until eventually, I didn't feel anything anymore.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> For the record, my response to my ex's lack of drive after kids was very much acceptance and understanding as you and AG seem to point to. Years went by with only a couple mild mentions of dissatisfaction with our sex life. As time went on, I escalated it further and further... until finally, I stopped seeking her and waited to see if she noticed. She didn't. There wasn't another man. There wasn't even a vibrator, erotic novel or even a celebrity hunk. There was only her casual disinterest in sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand. But not everyone is lost to bitterness, even after many years. Bitterness changes you, it changes how you look at the world and at people. Own this, and you'll be a better person.

I denied my resentment for ten long years and it almost caused me to miss out on the most incredible experience of my life. I got myself into IC so that I don't make that same mistake again. 

Your bitterness is not your friend. It won't help or protect you. Size it up and slay it.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Your bitterness is not your friend. It won't help or protect you. Size it up and slay it.


I did. I left the woman who made me bitter.

I've been enjoying myself ever since. Honestly, the only time I feel bitter is when I read these threads and go back in time.

I cannot express how much happier I am now that I'm divorced.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

GettingIt, I am curious to know what mistakes your husband made and why he regrets them now. 

Was your situation really comparable to this one? The OP has definitely crossed the line into an kinda not good territory isn't doing himself a favor with the surveillance but he hasn't exactly been pressuring his wife either.

You seem to be angry at your husband still am wondering if you're taking it out on this young man. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> GettingIt, I am curious to know what mistakes your husband made and why he regrets them now.


Again, this thread is not about me so I don't want to hijack, but you can read about it at the link in my sig and on subsequent posts by me. Basically huge communication fails on both our parts.



clipclop2 said:


> Was your situation really comparable to this one? The OP has definitely crossed the line into an kinda not good territory isn't doing himself a favor with the surveillance but he hasn't exactly been pressuring his wife either.


How does one judge whether or not one's situation is comparable? I think he's crowding his wife and seriously infringing on her privacy . . . but that's just how I'd feel. I'm not his wife, and she's not here to give her opinion. But I'm a wife, a SAHM of three kids, a woman who experienced a dip in my desire for sex after having children, so I feel I can offer what it was like for me. He is free to reject my advice if he things our situations have nothing in common.



clipclop2 said:


> You seem to be angry at your husband still am wondering if you're taking it out on this young man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband doesn't seem to be like the OP in any way I can think of. I saw myself in his wife, and was offering up some insight in to how SHE might feel. If I were her, I'd be furious. Maybe that's where you're picking up anger vibes from me? I think anger is destructive on a personal, spiritual level, and work to banish it when I feel it. Hmmmm, perhaps I should do some meditating today.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I did. I left the woman who made me bitter.
> 
> I've been enjoying myself ever since. Honestly, the only time I feel bitter is when I read these threads and go back in time.
> 
> I cannot express how much happier I am now that I'm divorced.


Okay. Maybe.

I spent ten years saying, "Resentment? What resentment? I'm happy!"

You might be happy you're divorced, you might be having a good time, but that doesn't mean you're healed.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Thanks for the advice people. I absolutely agree that I have overstepped the line here, there is no doubt of this.
I won;t be doing any more recording from this point forward. Instead, I'm going to challenge my wife to tell me the truth of it. To me, honesty is the ABSOLUTE foundation of marriage. If she can;t tell me the truth, I'll show her the evidence.
At that point she will have two options -
a) Resentment due to my spying
b) Recognition that she drove me to it by breaking the ABSOLUTE foundation of our marriage in the first place.
Personally, I never ask questions of my wife if I don't think I'm going to like the answer because I EXPECT the truth. 
This is NOT about control. I'd be happy for my wife to use her vibrator all day long everyday of the week - as long as my needs are being met, which they aren't at the moment.......


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Antman said:


> Thanks for the advice people. I absolutely agree that I have overstepped the line here, there is no doubt of this.
> I won;t be doing any more recording from this point forward. Instead, I'm going to challenge my wife to tell me the truth of it. To me, honesty is the ABSOLUTE foundation of marriage. If she can;t tell me the truth, I'll show her the evidence.
> At that point she will have two options -
> a) Resentment due to my spying
> ...


I'm glad to hear you're going to confront her and knock of the spying. Don't ever use anyone's else's bad behavior as an excuse to engage in bad behavior of your own. 

If fact, if you can manage it, man up and throw in an apology. Apologies are sexy. 

(Sigh. Okay, ready for the flame bath . . . )


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Um...

If you blame her for what you did you are not going top like her reaction. 

Also, while I initially felt you should be very stern with her, please read my recent post containing ideas on how to proceed. 

If you are confrontational or a jerk you will lose the war 

And, she will be upset about the surveillance. Apologize. She will know why you did it. She well not like that you did it. If you blame her in any way it will become the only topic. She will be able to use her very righteous anger to avoid taking because she is too angry at you to want to talk about sex let alone have it. 

You are probably impulsive going straight for spying. Think heard about how you are going to clean up your often issues going forward and do something about them. Of you are big on love busters this is the time to so them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Is a month enough to know? I stayed home a month. My ex wanted to maximize how old our kids were before we put them in daycare; thinking they'd be less likely to get sick or better able to handle the other kids germs. So I stayed home when she had to go back to work.
> 
> Developing routines makes staying home pretty easy imo. Even your sleep adjusts. You get 1.5 hour increments where you can - get much more and you'll feel bad, get much less and you'll feel bad. It always had to be 1.5 hr increments. I did the same from time to time w the Marines. A person doesn't actually need 8 hours contiguous sleep (which is really several sleep cycles)... in fact, before electricity, pretty much everyone got "two sleeps", which a several hour wake period in the middle of the night. You need a certain amount of full sleep cycles per day, doesn't matter where you get them. After the end of my month, I was still getting up in the middle of the night wide awake... and struggling to stay awake at work in the afternoon - for another several weeks.
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like you were pretty good at stay at home parenting 
I think a month is long enough to get a taste of it, but it changes when it becomes long term (though it is long enough to realize you hate it). Since I'm from the Phoenix area I think of it like the number of people that have told me they get how hot it is when they spent a couple of weeks in a resort in Scottsdale in the summer; they got a taste of it, and they might enjoy it long term, but they have no idea what it's like to go about your life long term in that kind of heat. There's just no way to know unless you do it. 
With a month you know it's going to end, so no matter how much it sucks you know the light is coming, and if you like it you had a month vacation. It's possible you would've been ok with it long term, but everyone is different and I definitely didn't have it in me to do it. I love my boys and hang out with them all the time, and when 10 and 12 year old boys still like hanging out with mom she must be doing something right 
For me I just felt like life was passing me by, and I can't operate without a full night's sleep. Maybe some can break it into chunks but I never could. It's possible if I'd had a supportive partner (my ex was an a$$h0le) I would've hated it less but I still think it wasn't for me. A lot of women do it not because they want to or because they really enjoy it but because they feel like if they don't then "someone else is raising my kids". If you like it and your partner supports it then great! I just think it's entirely possible that it wears on the OP's wife more then it wore on some of the posters here, and am generally not a fan of "well I did x, y, and z so if you don't you're a pos". "Well I worked, went to school, took care of kids and still had it in me to f#ck my husband every night so if you don't you suck" is not a productive attitude. 
Sorry about your roommate situation, that is a whole 'nother bag or worms and I'm happy you got out of it. It's premature to assume that's what's going on here though. I get the potential slippery slope, I'm just troubled that in light of their situation with three little kids he can't cut her a little slack and is instead whining and spying, which is very unattractive. I just hope when he "confronts" her it doesn't turn into how she pushed him there like he said because he's going to become another brat that's making demands. The grown up thing to do is to sit her down and tell her "you know honey, I know you use your vibrator and that's your business, I just miss our intimacy. Is there anything I can do to help, and can we make a little more time to be together"? He thinks that she can have the privilege of her vibrator if she meets all of HIS needs first. Not so. They both have a right to have SOME needs met; that might mean he gets sex a little less often then he'd like, but this is how adults reach a compromise. He's only been married 4 years and has three little kids, so if he can't negotiate this without throwing a tantrum their future doesn't look good. I don't even think I'd admit spying on her; she is going to feel very violated and may not get over that. He doesn't need that to address the issue.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh, I think he has to address the spying at some point. You can't demand honesty if you are unwilling to give it. 

No, it doesn't look good, yes, it would seem to be an over reaction in this case. We can say that now, knowing what was revealed. Would it be out of line had she turned out to be having an affair, in person or virtually? I think not. He had logical reasons to search for the truth, because his wife outright lied to him. I may be a little more committed to this opinion having spent most of my time on TAM in the infidelity board.

I will agree, he should apologize. He should avoid blaming. He should choose his words carefully, but he should be honest above all else.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Amen on being honest. There wouldn't be much of a thread if there were honesty from the start. 

Good luck OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Point taken on the honesty. I just think there's a good chance it will trump everything else. If I ever found out my hb was spying on me in our bedroom i would never forget it and our intimacy would never be the same. It's possibly a high price for a few months of intimacy drop, and based on his attitude I doubt she could even talk to him about it. Your bedroom is supposed to be your sanctuary and I would feel extremely violated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

where_are_we said:


> I will probably be flamed for this, but here it goes.......
> 
> I am trying to wrap my head around this thought:
> 
> ...


 Being at home with kids all day 24/7 will suck the life out of you, You clean, cook, do laundry, take care of the kids. It is not like you start at 9am and get off at 5pm. It is around the clock job, no breaks no vacation and no sick days or a day off. So yes it is different then leaving the house from 9-5 to go to work.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ladybird said:


> Being at home with kids all day 24/7 will suck the life out of you, You clean, cook, do laundry, take care of the kids. It is not like you start at 9am and get off at 5pm. It is around the clock job, no breaks no vacation and no sick days or a day off. So yes it is different then leaving the house from 9-5 to go to work.


If you love your family, the act of taking care of them, protecting and providing does not cost you emotional fuel. Part of taking care of your family is the copulation portion too and kindness and refuel of your spouse.

Sleep when it's time to go to bed.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

My grandmother worked her ass off for 30 + years as a stay at home mom. Ground wheat into flour and baked bread 365 days a year for god sake. She still put out enough to have 10 kids. People today are FOS whiners.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My grandmother worked her ass off for 30 + years as a stay at home mom. Ground wheat into flour and baked bread 365 days a year for god sake. She still put out enough to have 10 kids. People today are FOS whiners.


I know, right? I think of my grandmothers or great grandmothers and compare it to all the conveniences we have now. We have it easy. We just add in more stuff that we really don't need to do. Like signing up kids for multiple activities, for example. 

I've done all three as a mom: Worked full time, stayed at home full time, now I work part time. All have there pros and cons. All were equally as stressful for me.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Point taken on the honesty. I just think there's a good chance it will trump everything else. If I ever found out my hb was spying on me in our bedroom i would never forget it and our intimacy would never be the same. It's possibly a high price for a few months of intimacy drop, and based on his attitude I doubt she could even talk to him about it. Your bedroom is supposed to be your sanctuary and I would feel extremely violated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would bother me a lot, too. If she really isn't into him she will use it against him forever. 

They are both completely different things. I know it is doubtful that both of them apologizing will make this right. It will take a lot of communication and trying to keep close to one another . As I told him this is going to be a pivotal point in a relationship. Make or break.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Mmm, homemade bread and vibrators. Miss Scarlett approves.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My grandmother worked her ass off for 30 + years as a stay at home mom. Ground wheat into flour and baked bread 365 days a year for god sake. She still put out enough to have 10 kids. People today are FOS whiners.



That proves 10 times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My ex-mother in law had 9 children. She had no choice, they were catholic. When she was on her death bed she was crying and saying she never wanted that many children and she was worn out (she died an early death) and it wore her husband out (he had already died an early death) and then she started musing about how it was never about sex and she felt like she got pregnant every time he looked at her.

I don't think we should assume that having many children means a woman wanted a lot of sex. My ex-MIL may have literally only had sex 9 times in her marriage, there is no way to correlate the two things: sex and pregnancies.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I just think it's entirely possible that it wears on the OP's wife more then it wore on some of the posters here, and am generally not a fan of "well I did x, y, and z so if you don't you're a pos".


I don't mean my comments on this subject to put anyone down. If anything, I'm opining on what I perceive to be a mistake... not trying to say anyone is a pos.

To me, life is all about finding balance - integrating the things you used to love with whatever life has put in front of you and putting out the effort required to enjoy what you're doing. In a word: investing. Its really a choice I think. Hell, I do this every time I go for a run. I hate when the time comes to go running. To the degree that I even hate the sound my phone makes to alert me its running time. I'm already tired. Its cold outside. Its hot outside. Its raining. I dread it... I want to make excuses to avoid going. Yet, there's a point during the run when I become happy that I am running and I'm extremely satisfied afterwards.

If I just bailed on everything that gives me joy because of my upfront, fleeting resistance... I wouldn't do much of anything that takes effort but returns joy. Its self-defeating. Unhappiness sets in and you have even less ability to ante up that effort. Withholding sex as such, the damage is two fold... to oneself and to one's partner. I think its acidic to the relationship. I can't be bothered to find joy in you. Its raining. I don't want to run.

I think sex is one of those things that should be protected. We should always ante up. When everything else has beat you down its often hard to, and in those moments we're all literally blind to the benefits. So you do it anyway. You find that enthusiasm... you trust that this negative feeling you have now, won't last. You don't want to run, but you run anyway. By doing, somewhere along the way you reconnect to what you enjoy and love. You're running in the rain and affirming life. In fact, the things that are weighing you down even feel a little lighter.

IMO, all of the really satisfying things in life are this way.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> ... I saw myself in his wife...Maybe that's where you're picking up anger vibes from me?





DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ...the only time I feel bitter is when I read these threads and go back in time.


I sure understand those feelings. I've been fascinated by the times I start to feel my thinking come a little bit unhinged reading (and heaven forbid posting) on this site. Very good for me I think.

Early on, before I'd read this thread all the way through, I was thinking of posting a few things, but it turned out, the ground I was interested in has actually been mostly covered.

I've found myself sympathizing and agreeing with posts that are quite in opposition to each other. Somehow this reminded me of the story of the blind men and the elephant. (None of them could see it's an elephant, so they each concluded it was something very different based on the part each was touching.) Each conclusion makes sense, but only in isolation.

My other thought was the _King Lear_ thing, "I am a man more sinned against than sinning." (People aren't denying their mistakes, but rather than owning up to the extent of their mistakes, they're focused on what they see are the greater mistakes of others.)

Thank you very much everyone who's posted!


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
Firstly, thanks to all those who gave some insight and perspective, it was mostly pretty helpful in providing me with a plan......
So, I had the big chat with the wife and it all worked itself out.
Some history - 
I was adopted at 12 months of age. Sometimes (often?) this can leave a person with some serious abandonment issues. On top of that, the adoptive family will often say "we chose you" which can actually make a person feel that had they not been good enough, they would've picked some one else... So, here we have an overinflated sense of rejection combined with having to be at least "good enough" - stressful stuff.
I explained these things to the wife as the first part of our chat, in the hope that she would be able to see that a "normal" person might not take her actions as badly as maybe I did.
I owned up to spying. I made it clear that the changes in her behaviour made no sense to me. i explained that i had given her the opportunity to tell the truth about her vibrator use on more than one occasion and that she'd lied to me at every turn.
I explained that I felt our sex, when we actually had sex, didn't feel very passionate - more about the orgasm than the journey.
I explained that I want to touch and feel my wife, not necessarily for the sake of sex, but because I love her.
There's probably more but I think you can understand the point I'm making.
Her response -
She didn't realise that she'd been using the vibrator that often, sometimes she uses it heaps, sometimes very very rarely.
She is genuinely cold at night. I suggested she see soemone about that because she has also started snoring since the last pregnancy. Extra weight perhaps? (No, I didn't accuse her of being overweight)
She understood why I'd been checking up on her and admitted that she had previously suspected me of having an affair (that will NEVER happen).
She also went on to say that she had been deliberately withholding sex because I'd said to her at an earlier poiint that it would be good if we had sex everynight and this made her feel that sex should be a routine activity rather than something we do because we want to. 
NOTE: her version of what I said is different from the message I was trying to convey to her at that time.
We both expressed our deepest undying lover for each other and agreed that if this is the biggest problem we're going to face, particularly at the most stressful poiint in our lives together, then we are in a good place.
We kissed passionately and decided to ALWAYS express every concern we ever have, as soon as we're having a problem.
I hope some of this might help some of the other people out there to resolve their issues.
Maybe your problems aren't as significant as you think they are.
Communication seems to be the key, but I'm sure plenty of you already knew that


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

That's a great start, but it's premature to say your problem is solved. You both need to take action to follow through on your words. Communication is a key, ongoing communication. You also need to work to maintain your own sense of self worth. 

You might check out stuff by John Gottman and others to help keep you on track.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Suggestion : Refer to your wife as "my wife". She isn't like the car, the car or the TV. 

Did she say why she chose withholding sex instead of talking to you? I am concerned about this. 

In general, does she find you approachable? Does she talk about other issues in the marriage or is sex the only subject she has problems with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Suggestion : Refer to your wife as "my wife". She isn't like the car, the car or the TV.
> 
> Did she say why she chose withholding sex instead of talking to you? I am concerned about this.
> 
> ...


Sorry Clipclop, I tend to disagree on the use of "the" and "my". "My" implies ownership - my house, my car, my penis. I don't own my wife and she is " the" only woman I intend to be married to.
Maybe it's an Aussie thing, but you'll rarely hear a man talk about "my" wife. Usually it's "the" wife.
She said she was withholding sex because she felt that I had come to expect it. Rather than it being a spontaneous activity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Wow. What do you think of that answer? What did you say?

That's an utterly ridiculous set up for you, by the way. You are married, she's your wife, sex is supposed to be part of the deal, no? How are you supposed to ever get sex if asking for it kills the necessary spontaneity? It's a catch 22, and she's taking the power to withhold again, and placing the blame on you. Bull**** (cough, cough)!

This problem is not solved by a long shot my man.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Ask her if she feels emotionally connected to you, I suspect the answer is no, and she may have given up any expectation or hope for one. But ask her.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Ask her if she feels emotionally connected to you, I suspect the answer is no, and she may have given up any expectation or hope for one. But ask her.


We've had a series of lengthy conversations since I confronted her. Prior to that, we never REALLY talked about our emotions. She had just figured I wasn't into talking about that kind of stuff and I felt the same about her.
Our relationship has improved greatly since talking about our wants and needs. In fact, she has WANTED sex every night since bar one (both of us were just plain exhausted from late night romps LOLZ).
Life is good. If I could change go back in time I would've just told her how I feel rather than getting all anxious and worried.
Thanks to all the members for their advice - it was quite helpful at times. Cheers.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Is she your wife? 

If yes, it is correct to refer to her as "my wife. 

Do you call your mother "the mum?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

clipclop2 said:


> Is she your wife?
> 
> If yes, it is correct to refer to her as "my wife.
> 
> ...


He is from Australia, sounds like an Australian colloquialism and not derogatory. Wives probably say something similar. 

Congrats to you and your wife Antman. Sex may fall off again when the bloom of this talk subsides, she returns to work and exhaustion overwhelms her. Make sure to communicate at that time like you did this time. 

Perhaps you can both decide on a frequency if that should happen. Don't be silent. Consider how you would handle it if it should occur.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I know plenty of American men who say the same thing. 

lI bet if a guy were hitting on her he would use the word my as in leave my wife alone or I'm going to kick your ass. 

using the word the in front of the work wife make her sound like an object. 

so it may be the way he is used to talking but it certainly doesn't hurt to think about what words convey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I know plenty of American men who say the same thing.
> 
> lI bet if a guy were hitting on her he would use the word my as in leave my wife alone or I'm going to kick your ass.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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