# 4.5 years sexless marriage



## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Hello I'm new here. 

Been together 10 years but sex came to a dramatic stop 4.5 years ago. My wife says she decided to stop having sex due to pelvic issues after birth. At the time I thought it would just be a temporary phase. I wasn't worried nor did I talk about it. For the most part I coped by watching porn. 

Well, before I knew it, 1 year went by and I'm like damn, we haven't had sex in over a year. So I had my first heart to heart talk with her, it all seemed to go well and she sounded understanding but there was no result from that. 

Well time just continued to tick by and heart to hearts made no difference. She also has gone to therapy for the pelvic issue and is fine now. So the excuses turn into other stuff (headache, stress disorder, TMJ jaw pain, she has had every ailment under the sun - it's not created as an excuse but I do believe she is the type that always thinks there is something wrong with her body) Finally last year in March 2020 I asked for a divorce but couldn't go through with it. I thought about our daughter, everything we built and decided I would give it more time. 

In December 2020 I decided I would focus on myself, stop asking her for sex or bringing up the issue. Take the pressure off. Just let her be. I focused on taking her out on dates with no expectations of sex. We would go out, have a great time, and then I would just kiss her good night in bed and let her sleep. 

Well now we are in May and we no longer argue about sex but we still don't have any. I get finished putting my daughter to bed each night only to come to the bedroom and see her cuddled up in blankets watching TV not wanting to be moved. I finally caved and said "we need to talk". 

So I told her how I haven't bothered her about the issue and we been going on dates without me even initiating sex. I told her after 5 months of this there has been no difference in the bedroom and I'm frustrated. She went on to say that I don't connect with her and that she wont' want to have sex until we connect. Ok fair enough but here is the thing, she has been telling me that every time we have this discussion. It's part of the reason I decided to stop talking to her about it and just start treating her as if sex is off the table and never bring it up. We go on dates, laugh, joke around but it just results in her being tired and ready to crash by the time we get home. 

I honestly feel the "Not connecting" reason is just her excuse for simply not having sexual desire anymore. I've done my part to remove sex from the equation and focus on just the non physical part of our relationship, yet when we finally have the conversation, she again says I don't connect with her. I told her straight up yesterday, you want me as a friend and long term companion. It keeps order in our life. I get it, but you don't have any sexual feelings towards me. She just said that she had no answer to that. 

So last night I went to sleep feeling like I need to get an exit plan together, start visualizing the divorce and go through with it this time. All day today we have barely spoken to each other unless necessary and that awkwardness is very uncomfortable. It feels so easy for me to just drop it and accept things the way they are so I can carry on my sexless life, but then I keep telling myself I should have more to live for. 

Thanks for reading - I feel I need to leave the relationship but my daughter and visualizing how it will be on her is very painful for me. I get so sad about the idea that I wont be able to see her every day anymore and potentially not even get split custody. 

For moment, i feel extremely trapped.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Does she know that you are thinking of divorce? If not then please tell her.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

hmvp1981 said:


> For moment, i feel extremely trapped.





hmvp1981 said:


> Finally last year in March 2020 I asked for a divorce but couldn't go through with it.


Yet you're not trapped at all.

The only person stopping you leaving your self imposed, illusory cage is yourself. At the end of the day if you don't like the situation you are in and want it to end, then follow through with getting divorced.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Your wife shoots out more excuses than a Pez dispenser. Not connecting?!?? WTF???? I'm weighing in as a woman, and I can tell you that having quality date nights together IS connecting. She's done. Sorry. But when a woman pulls the plug on sex in a marriage it's because SHE has emotionally disconnected. That could be for a number of reasons. But she's dumping her disconnect on you. Granted, there may be things she wants you to improve or change. But she's not giving you any specific details on how to reconnect.

I call total b.s. on what she's dishing out. Do you have any suspicions of an emotional affair? I can understand how you don't want your daughter to come from a broken home, BUT sex is important. Going as long as you have without sex .... well, all I can say is your wife enjoys her lifestyle and you have been friend-zoned. JMO


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Yeap, you gotta talk and you need a wife not a friend. Sex is part of being a wife. If she can't be a wife, then you need to go find yourself one. It's that simple. Your guilty feelings have no merit here. How old is your child?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sorry to hear that hmvp.

I have a lot of sympathy for you as someone who has struggled with not having a healthy sexual relationship with my wife for many years although not a complete drought like you have experienced.

As she refuses to respond to your statement:



hmvp1981 said:


> you don't have any sexual feelings towards me.


and she comes back with nothing... it’s a variant on the, “I love you but I’m not in love with you.”

It’s painful to be rejected in this way but ultimately you seem to have the self worth to know you can start again. If she’s not going to work with you on it then with someone else down the line.

I made the same decision as you did which is to leave if it can’t be addressed. You’ve already done what you can do address it, and it sounds like you are down to your last option.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You have control over yourself no one else. 5 years is a big chunk of life. Obviously she doesn’t care and so far you’ve accepted it. Why?

Right now if it were me I’d start living for myself with plans to move on. Do nothing for her. A modified 180.
Heres the link The 180

You can’t change people only they can do that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

He kind of already did the 180 at least some elements of it. I think you’re at exit plan time.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Married people are obligated to have sex with their spouse, at least infrequently, unless there is some actual physical issue preventing it. She is breaking her vows, and you are justified in divorcing her for this reason alone. That being said, she's just not into you anymore. Since she is a woman, it's very likely not coming back. Would you even want to hit a dead fish anyway? I suggest cutting your losses now. 

Know that life with young children after divorce isn't as terrible as it sounds from the side you're on right now. Honestly, I'm not sure I would even want to go back to 100% daily involvement. I enjoy the breaks, especially in the last year or so (just turned 13).


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Wow! 4.5 years!

Do you suspect she is having those needs met elsewhere? I find it hard to believe SHE would be okay with going that long without any action.

I don’t know if you are fully in the mindset of divorce, but if you want to push your wife to explain what she needs to fee connected I’d suggest reading the 7 principles of marriage. My husband and I are reading it together after I finally got ready to file a few months ago and it’s been so good for us.

Otherwise you really need to focus on what will enable you to live a happy life. Your daughter matters but your quality of life does as well!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If you stay married one day longer it is now completely 100% your fault and you deserve the sexless life you get. I’m not sure what more proof you need that your wife isn’t interested in you. But don’t worry!!!!!! She will screw you like crazy when you drop divorce on her and that will last a couple months. It will taper off dramatically then dry up.... then you just wasted some more years by the time you get the nerve up to do it again.

Countless men show up here in your position.... your chance of success is near zero for good sex with your roommate...... I mean “wife”.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoL! You went 4 years longer than I would have!

Quit playing with this silly excuse for a woman.

I actually find your willingness to endure this more alarming than her turning you into her little boy roommate.

I'm tempted to start selling my testosterone in the U.S. market.

I would probably be extremely wealthy in short order due to the extreme lack of the substance.

Situations like this add to my belief that we are doomed.

Lift heavy weights, go destroy something, get into a heavy contact sport and start butting heads with like minded men.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Does she know that you are thinking of divorce? If not then please tell her.


Yes we have talked about divorce before


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Your wife shoots out more excuses than a Pez dispenser. Not connecting?!?? WTF???? I'm weighing in as a woman, and I can tell you that having quality date nights together IS connecting. She's done. Sorry. But when a woman pulls the plug on sex in a marriage it's because SHE has emotionally disconnected. That could be for a number of reasons. But she's dumping her disconnect on you. Granted, there may be things she wants you to improve or change. But she's not giving you any specific details on how to reconnect.
> 
> I call total b.s. on what she's dishing out. Do you have any suspicions of an emotional affair? I can understand how you don't want your daughter to come from a broken home, BUT sex is important. Going as long as you have without sex .... well, all I can say is your wife enjoys her lifestyle and you have been friend-zoned. JMO


I have snooped on her phone, found nothing suspicious. I'm the one that is out more between the 2 of us. I play in a couple bands and am out with them 2 to 3 nights per week.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Bibi1031 said:


> Yeap, you gotta talk and you need a wife not a friend. Sex is part of being a wife. If she can't be a wife, then you need to go find yourself one. It's that simple. Your guilty feelings have no merit here. How old is your child?


She is 7


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Sorry to hear that hmvp.
> 
> I have a lot of sympathy for you as someone who has struggled with not having a healthy sexual relationship with my wife for many years although not a complete drought like you have experienced.
> 
> ...


Yep, thinking about it gives me anxiety though and I'm fearful that I'll back down again so I dont want to say it until I know I wont turn back aww


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> She is 7


She is very young. You and your wife must be somewhat young too. 

You do need a wife and not a friend. You will have 50/50 custody of your little girl. Get a lawyer's help to get that. Most states don't give the father fair 50/50 custody. 

Paying a lawyer is worth it though. Your little girl needs her dad as much as you can legally give her because the marriage to her mom is definitely unsustainable and the sacrifice would be unfair to you. You tried very hard to stay with her. She failed you and your daughter. This is not on you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hmvp1981 said:


> Yes we have talked about divorce before


What does she say?


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

Have you asked her what she needs to connect?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You take her on date nights and she still says you're not connecting with her? Wtf does she want? 

Before you do anything, I would go and see a couple of attorneys and find out where you stand in the event you do decide to divorce. Particularly in regards to your daughter. Then you'll be able to make a plan. Knowledge is power.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Who cares what she says. She will just keep moving the goal post. If you satisfy excuse #237 she will just move to excuse #238.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

hmvp1981 said:


> Yep, thinking about it gives me anxiety though and I'm fearful that I'll back down again so I dont want to say it until I know I wont turn back aww


And this is why you’ve gone 4.5 years without getting any. You’re paralyzed with fear. She senses that. You brought up divorce before, and then, sadly, you crumbled. You’ve lost all credibility with her on this topic, perhaps all topics. She won’t believe you if you bring it up again - why should she? Your only hope - and it’s a 0.5% chance to save this marriage - is to actually serve her with divorce papers and say you’re dead serious and 100% done living a celibate life. Most likely, she still won’t believe you, thinking you’re only bluffing. What you need to do is be truly done with her, and only even remotely give it a thought of not following thru if she BY HER ACTIONS changes her ways. Sorry to say, in all likelihood, she won’t. As many women here will confirm, when a woman is (sexually) done with a man, she is DONE. Nothing’s gunna change that. Truly sorry. 

If you want any prayer of a chance of having a woman other than Rosie Palm, it’s time to take action now AND FOLLOW THROUGH with it this time for Pete’s sake!


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> What does she say?


Mixed...she will go from understanding and accepting it, but the next day she will say she wants to work on our marriage. 

Or she will say I'm giving up and not willing to work through this.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Pip’sJourney said:


> Have you asked her what she needs to connect?


She is vague, says we need to be playful, laugh, she likes to tickle me and stuff. She says I'm too serious. 

I'm just not that type of guy, I dont want to chase her around the house playing tickle and pillow fight in order to initiate sex. It wouldnt result in sex anyway, the few times we did silly things like that, she would push me away when I tried


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Please get a lawyer. You have wasted too much time and to no avail. Don't lose anymore over someone that is done with not meeting your needs. Her excuses and reasoning borders on pathetic. 

Her lady parts are cold and her heart is ice. Let her go so you can live a better life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Get your T levels checked too.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Things to consider:

Who/what are you missing out on, while you stay with someone that not only isn’t that into you naturally, but also does not bother to engage with you to meet some of your needs, and isn’t motivated to do anything to preserve your relationship?
What cost/damage does it do to you, psychologically, to stay partnered to the disinterested/unavailable one?
What effect does your psychological consequences have on your daughter’s life?
What effect does your unhealthy marriage have on your daughter’s developing view/sense of relationships and marriage?
If she somehow musters a non-zero sexual availability to you, how will you feel if and when you decide it’s not attraction to you or love for you that motivated her, but a desire to not end a marriage for other reasons (lifestyle, appearances, duty, etc)?
Do you see her for truly how she is, how she treats you, how she is motivated solely by her own interests, and either doesn’t see or doesn’t care about yours (if any of that applies)?
Is there anything you need to change about you, and have you changed since the better times in your relationship? Was there a better time?
Has she seen any health/mental health professionals about her lack of desire?
Does she report any desire, with or without you?
Is she or you depressed?
Is she anxious about sex?
Is she or you otherwise happy?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Has she been checked out by a doctor?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You have allowed this to continue way too long. And your attempts to jump through her hoops and be a good boy in hopes thata she’ll toss you some sexual scraps have only made you look weak and more unattractive to her.
You can either divorce, accept a pathetic celibate marriage, or take control and try to fix your situation.

You’re operating in her frame and she has the control, and she knows it. And that is extremely unattractive. She straight up told you she’s not in love with you (which is usually a precursor to an affair or divorce papers). She doesn’t respect you as a man and isn’t attracted to you, and your passivity on this has likely made it worse. She knows perfectly well how important sex is to you, she just doesn’t want you.

Are you the leader in your marriage/family? Are you being masculine so your wife can be feminine? Are you boring, over predictable, not flirting, being weak, etc?
Women despise weak, passive men. Women resent men who aren’t leading (and thereby forcing them to take on more leadership that they don’t want).

So what to do...
Take an honest assessment of yourself, your attractiveness (physical, personality, masculinity, leadership in the marriage, flirtiness, fun etc) and figure out how to improve yourself as a man, to be a more attractive man.
A man that your wife wants to have sex with.
A man that other women want - so you’ll have more options in the event that you divorce.

You can’t negotiate respect or desire. But you can build / rebuild it. So focus on what you can control, YOU.
Important - You need to do this for YOU, to improve your situation (in or after your marriage). Do not do it to please her, that’s just a possible positive byproduct.

Be more attractive:
-If you’re out of shape (or even marginally in shape), start hitting the gym hard. Lift heavy things.
-You are responsible for being the leader in your marriage, that means setting the tone of your interactions and relationship. Tell your wife what you expect out of your relationship together and then start behaving as such.
-Operate in your own frame and don’t take her too seriously. Be more flirty and charming and fun. Show confidence and leadership.
-Initiate sexually. Do it regularly. **But do not complain, sulk or act butthurt when she turns you down. Just go do your own thing somewhere else (go to the gym, go do some work, hobby etc).
-Have things to do that she needs to compete with for your attention (work, your bands, friends etc).

Be less unattractive:
Recognize it you’re acting whiny, needy, etc. and stop doing it.
-If she gets pushy, bossy, *****y, overly critical, etc - don’t take her seriously. Don’t get sucked into arguments or defensiveness, be a bit dismissive, with a smile.
-see ** above under initiate sexually

Seriously do the work and give it 6 months. Maybe she’ll come around and maybe she won’t. Either way, you’ll be in a much better position to move forward with her or without.
And have divorce papers and a custody plan ready in the event that things don’t improve, you’ll be in a much better position to execute.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hmvp1981 said:


> She is vague, says we need to be playful, laugh, she likes to tickle me and stuff. She says I'm too serious.


I've been there, although sex stopped only when all the kids left. But we did have several dry spells due to me moving into the spare room... I'll tell you what your wife wants: cake-eating. She wants you to be your normal self without the burden of sex. She wants you to hug her, cuddle her in bed, with no sex, she wants you to be happy around her, understanding. She wants you to connect with her emotionally, It's only sex after all! Well, what man is able to do all that when you really desire your wife and want to bonk her brains out? I could never do that. But that's what my wife really wanted. So I started isolating and withdrawing. She knew I could not hug her and cuddle her without our physical side. I told her. So, she started detaching. I had planned to leave 3 years ago, but she got there first: she stopped sex completely.

In my opinion, she's lost her desire for you. I'm not sure how old she is, but I doubt it's the menopause. There's nothing you can do about it. I believe she is trying to keep the status quo, waiting until your daughter is old enough. It's a terrible thing to do to you. This is what my wife did to me, although she gave me some sex. If she is not interested in having a fully committed marriage, then she should let you go. Sorry you are in this situation, it's heart-breaking.

Ah, forgot... if you divorce her, expect the classic reply: you are divorcing me just for sex.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Has your wife objected to you being out 2-3 nights a week playing in a band while she is home with the child? She could harbor resentments. She could be jealous.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> You have allowed this to continue way too long. And your attempts to jump through her hoops and be a good boy in hopes thata she’ll toss you some sexual scraps have only made you look weak and more unattractive to her.
> You can either divorce, accept a pathetic celibate marriage, or take control and try to fix your situation.
> 
> You’re operating in her frame and she has the control, and she knows it. And that is extremely unattractive. She straight up told you she’s not in love with you (which is usually a precursor to an affair or divorce papers). She doesn’t respect you as a man and isn’t attracted to you, and your passivity on this has likely made it worse. She knows perfectly well how important sex is to you, she just doesn’t want you.
> ...


Do all of the things list above, but do them as you are preparing for the divorce and as you are preparing for your life without her. 

Your status in her heart, loins and mind is firmly etched as an ATM and assistant child care giver to her. She will probably even be irritated at the time you spend at the gym and the lawyer’s office because you aren’t serving her at those times.

But the chances of any of it truly impacting her sexual desire for you is 1:362,836,410. That flame died out over 4 years ago. 

The things listed above are for YOU. They are for you and the next woman(s) in your life to make sure this doesn’t happen again.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's a classic case of falling out of love, but wanting to keep the family and the comfortable life together. I'm a bit surprised she doesn't give you some pity sex occasionally to keep you there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And before Catholic Dad comes on here talking about the evils of porn, I will also recommend stopping the porn and the spanking cold turkey. 

Let the pressure and tension build as it will push you into action.

I do not have any religious or moral objections to porn. In fact I think it can have some positive benefits in certain situations.

However, one of the reasons you have allowed yourself to go 4.5 years without sex is because you have placated yourself watching other guys have sex. You relieved yourself so you were content to be celibate. You lost your drive and your initiative. 

Spanking to porn is sitting in the dark watching superior men have fun. It’s the adult version of the nerds standing against the gym wall watching the jocks and cheerleaders dance. 

Go cold turkey and let the tank fill to danger levels. It will push you to take action.

That action will be either be addressing the issue with her to a final solution. 

Packing bags, divorcing and moving on.

Or finding someone else whether you stay with her or not. 

Either way, you take action and aren’t just sitting in the dark pounding your pud and then whining that you don’t have real sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I'm a bit surprised she doesn't give you some pity sex occasionally to keep you there.


Why should she?

He stays without even that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Oldshirt makes an important point about porn. It allowed me to exist at the once per week or every other week level for years.

I knew it was bad but didn’t have the exact correct thinking about it for many years. Once I did, I shut it off completely and haven’t been back since. As he says cutting yourself off completely will make it more clear to you what you need to do.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

hmvp1981 said:


> ...we been going on dates without me even initiating sex. I told her after 5 months of this there has been no difference in the bedroom and I'm frustrated. *She went on to say that I don't connect with her and that she wont' want to have sex until we connect. *


Well apparently the only way to _connect_ would be to tell her that you no longer have any sexual desire for her. Then explain that your _frustration_ comes from the fact that you increasingly feel like you want to leave her. 

She likely doesn't want sex and when you pressure her for it she feels disconnected because she doesn't feel the desire. So the above ought to do it!

Badsanta


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Why should she?
> 
> He stays without even that.


If he were to divorce and he got split custody, he would have to hire someone to watch his child 2-3 nights of his week. Or, wife would get more custody and he would be paying higher child support.

He isn't being a martyr for his daughter - he knows his life would be turned upside down.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Has your wife objected to you being out 2-3 nights a week playing in a band while she is home with the child? She could harbor resentments. She could be jealous.


Me being out alot just started maybe 3 months ago, the rejection has been going on for years. Me being scarce and away is part of the 180 I guess (which I didn't know about until i read it here) but I did read material similar to that which talked about not being so avialable and focusing on yourself in order to appear more attractive. 

So in short no, has nothing to do with me being away more. She hasnt even made any bad comments to me about me being away, she accepts and is ok with it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Why should she?
> 
> He stays without even that.


well, he is here contemplating divorce so, although she is doing a good job, it's not perfect...


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> And before Catholic Dad comes on here talking about the evils of porn, I will also recommend stopping the porn and the spanking cold turkey.
> 
> Let the pressure and tension build as it will push you into action.
> 
> ...


you make a great point. I get to the point of frustration and admit to using it to cope to not go bonkers. It is true, after I use it, for the day I'm at peace with my life and we carry on doing house work, errands etc. it's a never ending cycle.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hmvp1981 said:


> She hasnt even made any bad comments to me about me being away, she accepts and is ok with it.


She is probably happy you are not there...  Unfortunately, the 180 or being more alpha stuff doesn't work with women that have no interest in you sexually. In fact, they are pleased you are ignoring them and, if you let it go, you will be without sex until you die.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> Mixed...she will go from understanding and accepting it, but the next day she will say she wants to work on our marriage.
> 
> Or she will say I'm giving up and not willing to work through this.


Bud, words for the most part can be meaningless. Actions always tell you the truth. Ignoring that will just keep you where you are longer. Most just don’t want to see it and will smoke that hopium pipe.

4.5 years is a huge chunk of life. You want to wake up at 50 and still be in the same situation? You can’t overcame incompatibility on your own.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> well, he is here contemplating divorce so, although she is doing a good job, it's not perfect...


we haven't spoken much last 2 days, I can tell she is trying to get things back to normal. She makes comments to me, joking and stuff but i dont participate. Last night I went to bed and didn't say good night. 

We had this happened in March 2020 and then again about 2 months ago during a fight about something else. This is typical, she starts out mad, then over a few days she wants to forget about it and make things normal without really addressing the issue. I make sure we talk about it before we go back to being normal and she will say things like "Yes, we need to date more, go on more date night, we should have sessions weekly to talk about our relationship, i really love you and care about you". So that motivated energy lasts about 2 days before she goes right back into the same routines. 

Someone said the only way sex could happen is after i file for divorce, i can see that being the case. She is the type of person that doesn't take action on anything until the last minute. She cooks and leaves dishes / pans all over the counter until she has no more space and then will start cleaning up with frustration. She will leave clean clothes in the laundry basket until she has nothing left to wear and then will fold them and put them away. And with that being said, those house hold duties have much more priority to her than our sex life.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hmvp1981 said:


> I can tell she is trying to get things back to normal. She makes comments to me, joking and stuff.


Of course... she loves the status quo. She is having her cake and eating it. How dare you spoiling all that? From what you told about her personality, I suspect she might have some mental issues and she is not telling you... a bit of a wild guess, but it's happened to me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hmvp1981 said:


> Me being out alot just started maybe 3 months ago, the rejection has been going on for years. Me being scarce and away is part of the 180 I guess (which I didn't know about until i read it here) but I did read material similar to that which talked about not being so avialable and focusing on yourself in order to appear more attractive.


You have misunderstood.

You don’t focus on yourself to make yourself more attractive. 

You focus on yourself to improve yourself and create a better life for yourself and to improve your well being. 

If someone out there finds you more attractive because of it - BONUS!

You’ve already lived her and accommodated her for far too long. Don’t do this to try to impress her or attract her, it will only make you look more weak and pathetic in her eyes. 

Do it for YOU and improve your own life. If you develop a kick ass life and someone wants to join you in that life, that is just a side benefit.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hmvp1981 said:


> So in short no, has nothing to do with me being away more. She hasnt even made any bad comments to me about me being away, she accepts and is ok with it.


Of course she’s ok with it. As long as you pay the bills, help out with the dishes and laundry and as long as you help out with the child, she is good.

Remember, she doesn’t actually like you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> we haven't spoken much last 2 days, I can tell she is trying to get things back to normal. She makes comments to me, joking and stuff but i dont participate. Last night I went to bed and didn't say good night.
> 
> We had this happened in March 2020 and then again about 2 months ago during a fight about something else. This is typical, she starts out mad, then over a few days she wants to forget about it and make things normal without really addressing the issue. I make sure we talk about it before we go back to being normal and she will say things like "Yes, we need to date more, go on more date night, we should have sessions weekly to talk about our relationship, i really love you and care about you". So that motivated energy lasts about 2 days before she goes right back into the same routines.
> 
> Someone said the only way sex could happen is after i file for divorce, i can see that being the case. She is the type of person that doesn't take action on anything until the last minute. She cooks and leaves dishes / pans all over the counter until she has no more space and then will start cleaning up with frustration. She will leave clean clothes in the laundry basket until she has nothing left to wear and then will fold them and put them away. And with that being said, those house hold duties have much more priority to her than our sex life.


You like most live on hopium but it’s always temporary just to get you back in line. After 4.5 years hopefully you’ll wake up to reality but most don’t.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hmvp1981 said:


> you make a great point. I get to the point of frustration and admit to using it to cope to not go bonkers. It is true, after I use it, for the day I'm at peace with my life and we carry on doing house work, errands etc. it's a never ending cycle.


Go ahead and go bonkers. 

At least that will bring the status quo to an end.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Remember, she doesn’t actually like you.


I disagree. She likes him, but not enough to have sex with him...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I disagree. She likes him, but not enough to have sex with him...


From a man’s perspective, that means she doesn’t like him.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Do all of the things list above, but do them as you are preparing for the divorce and as you are preparing for your life without her.
> 
> Your status in her heart, loins and mind is firmly etched as an ATM and assistant child care giver to her. She will probably even be irritated at the time you spend at the gym and the lawyer’s office because you aren’t serving her at those times.
> 
> ...


Good points that I probably didn’t make strongly enough in my post. This is for you because it will make you better and make your life better whether it’s with your wife or someone else, or single.

It’s not about winning her back, it’s about putting yourself in a position where you don’t have to. It’s about preparing yourself to move on from your wife and enjoy better options. If she happens to come around, then you get to decide whether you still even want to stay with her or not. 
And after 4.5 years of a sexless marriage, the odds are that you will be moving on so keep that mindset.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> From a man’s perspective, that means she doesn’t like him.


I guess you can put it that way...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I guess you can put it that way...


There’s no other way to put it. 

If a woman doesn’t like you sexually, it doesn’t count. It’s a nonstarter. 

For a man to be healthy and happy in a bonded, committed, sexually exclusive relationship, he needs to be having sex. 

Otherwise If she doesn’t like him sexually, then it is just a roommate and friendship arrangement. 

Women have two catagories of friends - boyfriends and girlfriends. 

If she is having sex with a guy, he is in the boyfriend catogory.

The other friends she’s not having sex with are girlfriends. 

@hmvp1981 is firmly in her girlfriend catagory. She talks about her problems to him, she gets him help her with aches and pains, she gets him to help her around the house and with the kids and she goes out on the town to have have and then comes home to sleep, rinse and repeat - that’s what girlfriends do with each other. 

Sexuality is what makes our special someone special and separates that person from all our other friends, family, coworkers, neighbors etc. 

She has no sexual desire for him and has consistently rejected him for years. He is not special to her and she holds nothing special to him which a man needs to remain in a committed relationship. 

Her liking him enough to remain in her house, pay her bills and help around the house and with kids, does not count from a man’s perspective.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@hmvp1981 

There is something assuredly wrong with your wife and I'm almost positive their is something very off with you as well.

You could benefit from a full medical workup including psychological.

I can't comprehend being as "agreeable" as you have been for so long.

Her behavior has been observed as fairly regularly occuring but your response indicates far too high of an "agreeable" nature than is actually healthy for a man to have.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Go ahead and go bonkers.


Let me expand on this a bit.

We have been raised to fear male sexuality and hold it suspect. We’re afraid of what men will do when they’re horny. We’re afraid of what they’ll do so we shame them for wanting a sexual relationship, we mock them for having sexual desires and we tell them they need to suppress and deny their wants and needs for romantic/sexual connection so that it doesn’t inconvenience anyone or make anyone uncomfortable or feel threatened that they may end a relationship or find someone else etc

(We do this women to but in different manners)

So we give them free access to unlimited porn and tell them that masturbation is healthy and ok and that it is an acceptable substitute if it takes the burden off of a partner that does not want to have sex with him. 

Now we will mock and shame him for that too but we turn around and say it’s ok as long as he isn’t ending the relationship, seeking it elsewhere or making her uncomfortable. 

Well here’s the catch - Mother Nature never intended, weak, passive, lazy males to breed. 

The males Mother Nature intended to pass on to the next generations are courageous, take risks, don’t supplicate their wants and needs for other’s convenience and that pursue their own best interests. 

Much of society and the church ladies want men to be passive, supplicating servants that deny their own wants and needs for the service of others. Eunuchs that serve the master class. 

I think porn is a means used to keep men satiated and off the streets and as a means to keep them passive in sexless marriages so they stay in their lanes.

Right now the Japanese are even trying to develop sex robots so the beta men won’t have to leave the house at all. 

When I say go bonkers, I mean unplug yourself and do what Mother Nature put healthy virile males on earth to do. 

As long as it is with consenting adults, it’s fair game.

Don’t molest minors.

Don’t kidnap 3rd world teenage girls.

Don’t rape anyone or screw passed out drunk chicks. 

But let the pressure build until it becomes so intense and uncomfortable that being passive and sexless is more painful than taking definitive action.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> So in short no, has nothing to do with me being away more. She hasnt even made any bad comments to me about me being away, she accepts and is ok with it.


Hmm, this is interesting. Maybe she won't mind you stepping out and finding action on the side as long and you two keep the status quo. Have you touched this particular subject? It is worth a try since your wife will never fulfill those duties.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Just remember that you take action first and foremost. That means that if she tells you she will change don't believe her. When she is giving hot and heavy sex as often as you were used to when you met, then her actions will prompt you to stop looking for sexual pleasure elsewhere. You are on the driver's seat now. Never her again. She lost that privilege when she withdrew sex from her husband.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> @hmvp1981
> 
> There is something assuredly wrong with your wife.


I honestly think there is and the catalyst started when motherhood hit her after the birth of her daughter. I think she was sexually traumatized in the form of abuse. I saw several cases of women shutting down after they had a baby girl. All the demons of their pasts came flooding in and the poor husbands could not make them have intercourse with them. 

The cases I saw were extreme because the males didn't handle this well, hence the women ended up in the shelter I used to work part time with my counseling degree. The women were traumatized by a relative or friend of the family at childhood, and they the husband's reactions made their lives a living hell. 

Therapy and lots of it, may get your wife the help she probably has always needed, but that is not your problem anymore. You must think about you and not her because she has definitely friend, roommate and baby sitter zoned you. There is no coming back from that...sorry. Just my take on the few cases I witnessed at work. 

The patterns are similar. Patterns that repeat often means that humans most of the time react in similar fashion because they went through the same or very similar traumas.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Therapy and lots of it, may get your wife the help she probably has always needed, but that is not your problem anymore. You must think about you and not her because she has definitely friend, roomate and baby sitter zoned you.


Sound advice, but I think HE needs therapy just as much to address why he has allowed himself to be put into this situation and tolerate this.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

prolly part of his upbringing is my take. Love for his child and as much as we don't want to see it, love for his wife. Also a sense of duty towards the marriage and the never ending hope that maybe things will get better if he just finds the key to open that Vjayjay that should be his and only his to be shared by his wife. It's hard for some of us to let go of trying to fix the unfix-able.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Bibi1031 said:


> I honestly think there is and the catalyst started when motherhood hit her after the birth of her daughter. I think she was sexually traumatized in the form of abuse. I saw several cases of women shutting down after they had a baby girl. All the demons of their pasts came flooding in and the poor husbands could not make them have intercourse with them. The cases I saw were extremel because the males didn't handle this well, hence the women ended up in the shelter I used to work part time with my counseling degree. The women were traumatized by a relative or friend of the family at childhood, and they the husband's reactions made their lives a living hell. Therapy and lots of it, may get your wife the help she probably has always needed, but that is not your problem anymore. You must think about you and not her because she has definitely friend, roomate and baby sitter zoned you. There is no coming back from that...sorry. Just my take on the few cases I witnessed at work. The patterns are similar. Patterns that repeat often means that humans most of the time react in similar fashion because they went through the same or very similar traumas.


I dont believe she was molested herself but her step dad was a molester and she witnessed her cousin get molested by him. She attacked him, her mom kicked her out of the house when she was young. So yeah there is some of that going on.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Bibi1031 said:


> prolly part of his upbringing is my take. Love for his child and as much as we don't want to see it, love for his wife. Also a sense of duty towards the marriage and the never ending hope that maybe things will get better if he just finds the key to open that Vjayjay that should be his and only his to be shared by his wife. It's hard for some of us to let go of trying to fix the unfix-able.


I suggested counseling, she has in the past but doesn't go anymore and as of this year told me she won't go to a counselor anymore because she doesn't need anyone to tell her how to live her life.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Situations like this thrive on indecision. It gets worse not better.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hmvp1981 said:


> I suggested counseling, she has in the past but doesn't go anymore and as of this year told me she won't go to a counselor anymore because she doesn't need anyone to tell her how to live her life.


Then there is your answer.

What do you do when someone has cancer but has chosen to no longer continue treatment??

You start planning a funeral and getting your affairs in order for their death. 

This is the same. 

She has declared that she is not going to try to treat the cancer growing in your marriage. 

Your options. - start getting your affairs in order for the ultimate demise of your marriage.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> I dont believe she was molested herself but her step dad was a molester and she witnessed her cousin get molested by him. She attacked him, her mom kicked her out of the house when she was young. So yeah there is some of that going on.


He had a girl that is NOT his living under his roof and he did not molester her? Come on, that is not possible. She attacked him when she sacrificed herself for whatever reason and then the animal attacked her cousin. Her self preservation instinct finally kicked in, but it back fired. Her stupid mother couldn't live without ****! See why now she can absolutely live without your penis? It is directly correlated in her traumatized mind. Of course she doesn't need counseling. The ugly truth is very painful. She is an adult now and she can protect herself against any pain to the determent of her marriage and even her beautiful child's well being.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hmvp1981 said:


> ... she won't go to a counselor anymore because she doesn't need anyone to tell her how to live her life.


Granted, nobody can tell her how to live her life. But you've been pandering to her for years, so at the very least you are enabling her to maintain her sex-free lifestyle. Actually, she's telling YOU how to live your life, isn't she? And you are going along with it, even though you are sexually frustrated.

Your wife knows how to manipulate you with her b.s. and you are allowing her to get away with it. Until you get out of the fear-zone, you will live in a sexless marriage. She's calling the shots and you are allowing her to do it.

Frankly, I can't wrap my head around a man who would put up with your situation. But, as I frequently say: Your life. Your choice.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Does she know that you are thinking of divorce? If not then please tell her.


Yes, I agree with this, but would phrase it more as this having gotten to the point of it being a dealbreaker, and that if things don't start changing, they you will need to be free of the marriage. Does your wife know this is a dealbreaker for you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ursula said:


> Yes, I agree with this, but would phrase it more as this having gotten to the point of it being a dealbreaker, and that if things don't start changing, they you will need to be free of the marriage. Does your wife know this is a dealbreaker for you?


The problem is he has already whined and complained and threatened for years and then did nothing. It didn’t break any deals. 

So why should she think it’s a deal breaker now?

Something is only a deal breaker if it actually breaks deals.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The problem is he has already whined and complained and threatened for years and then did nothing. It didn’t break any deals.
> 
> So why should she think it’s a deal breaker now?
> 
> Something is only a deal breaker if it actually breaks deals.


Yeah, I've since read the rest of the thread, and OP, if I were you, I would totally head for the hills. Someone said that once a woman loses the attraction to her man, it's gone. That's true, and what happened in my marriage. I had a toxic marriage, and my now XH cut me off of sex for a few weeks at the very beginning of our marriage. After a few weeks, I sat him down and told him that I didn't sign up for this. I asked him how he felt about having an open marriage (he was against it). So, I pretty much told him to ma up and get professional help to get over whatever he was dealing with no make him not want to have sex. He did this, but over the course of our 4-year marriage, things slid downhill and just kept on going. By the last couple of years, I went to the happy place in my head when I had to put out for him once a week. I didn't like him, I'd lost all respect for him, and he utterly revolted me. Don't hit that point; either fix this for good, or get a divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Does she know that you are thinking of divorce? If not then please tell her.


He’s been talking about it and it’s been a point of contention for years.

What woman thinks that a man is going to be ok with being rejected for 4 years?

At this point, She has no reason to believe him even if he did say he wanted a divorce because he’s always backed down in the past. 

Let the moving truck in the driveway and the court papers do the talking.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

@hmvp1981 -- I have been in a sexless marriage for, well, decades, and it is a sad sad place to be, believe me (the details of my situation are different, which is why I am still in it, but I can definitely relate to what you are dealing with).

You say you've brought up the subject of divorce in the past, but action is what is important -- you need to actually meet with one or more divorce attorneys to find out what a divorce would really look like for you, for your kid, and for your wife. Knowledge is empowering here (you might take a look at this Captain Awkward post). 

Build a vision for yourself of what the alternatives to being with your wife might actually look like. For example, look at real estate ads and such. There was a point where my wife triggered me such that I felt like I needed to move out -- I was up all night looking for another place to live. I started with apartments, but then I realized that I had a dog, a big dog, and oh yeah, what I am going to do with all my tools and other toys, I need a house... so by morning I had a vision of buying an old fixer-upper, moving there with my dog, and enjoying a bachelor lifestyle fixing up my new old house. The reassurance of knowing that I could have a good life without my wife, that leaving would not be the end for me, gave me power, too. It allowed me to step back from the precipice a bit.

I think others in this thead have danced around the idea of getting your sexual needs met outside of the marriage. Certainly you could look into that, too, BUT DO NOT CHEAT. Unilaterally opening up your marriage might still be considered a form of ethical non-monogamy so long as you are completely open, honest, and forthcoming about what you are doing --- with all parties impacted by the action! Lying, sneaking around, covering your tracks... _no bueno, man!_ There are decent resources out there about polyamory and opening up. But do understand that going down this road has consequences, too, and you need to be prepared to accept those possibilities. Consider that you would be transferring the responsibility for making the decision to end the marriage to your wife -- it would now be on her to decide whether the open situation was acceptable to her, or not.

But ultimately it is you who must decide whether you are ok with being in a sexless marriage, and if you decide that you are not ok with it, then you must take affirmative action to change your situation, one way or another. You may decide that, in fact, you are ok with it, in which case carry on -- but be realistic about your hopium, the situation will not just magically change on its own, you need to be truly content with what it is.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TurnedTurtle said:


> @hmvp1981 -- I have been in a sexless marriage for, well, decades, and it is a sad sad place to be, believe me (the details of my situation are different, which is why I am still in it, but I can definitely relate to what you are dealing with).


Are you still in your marriage @TurnedTurtle? Please try and sort out your co-dependency, it's the only way out. Trust me, I'm one of the worst offenders.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hmvp1981 said:


> Hello I'm new here.
> 
> Been together 10 years but sex came to a dramatic stop 4.5 years ago. My wife says she decided to stop having sex due to pelvic issues after birth. At the time I thought it would just be a temporary phase. I wasn't worried nor did I talk about it. For the most part I coped by watching porn.
> 
> ...


You are only trapped in your mind. Inertia keeps you in this bad place. I have a relative who was married three times with a child born from each. He spends time and money on all three, divorcing was no barrier to a happy relationship with all of his kids, and actually an ultimately friendly relationship with all of his ex-wives. Two of the kids are now well adjusted adults. His kids did better not living in a toxic household. He did better by moving on. So leaving ( which is what you must do ASAP for your own health ) is no reason to be "sad". I have a good friend who like you tolerated minimalist sex life for first months, then years, and finally two decades. Complaining ( to me and anyone else who would listen ) all of the way. Ultimately divorced at 20 in, his "wife" being the one who finally pulled the trigger. By then he was a bitter miserable and older man.

I believe that marriage is a contract formalizing and codifying a sexual relationship ( "forsaking all others, have and hold, etc etc. ) if the sexual relationship disappears all that remains is a piece of paper and some faded photos from years ago. You are wasting your one and only life. You have allowed this to go on about 4 years and 5 months too long.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> prolly part of his upbringing is my take. Love for his child and as much as we don't want to see it, love for his wife. Also a sense of duty towards the marriage and the never ending hope that maybe things will get better if he just finds the key to open that Vjayjay that should be his and only his to be shared by his wife. It's hard for some of us to let go of trying to fix the unfix-able.


You sure got that right Sista!!!! 

I don't know if your description above is applicable to the OP or not but you just described ME to a 'T' LOL


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know if your description above is applicable to the OP or not but you just described ME to a 'T' LOL


It described me... until the sex was taken away from the equation...


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

Sorry this is happening. Fundamentally, your marriage isn't falling apart because there is no sex. It is because she doesn't love you like she loves a husband. Doesn't she see this is killing you? And she's okay dishing that kind of pain? There's no love there. So this is good reason to leave your marriage. It's suppose to be a partnership, not for one person to hold it together. And you have been patient. I think you need immediate action now. 

But first I am curious, do you guys still have other physical connections? Long hugs? Massages? Things only couples do? 

You bring up she has trauma, and that could be a big mood killer. But is there something she is doing to overcome her past? If not for you, for her own sake and wellbeing. 

And I second what others said about possibly talking about ethical non-monogamous relationship. Cus this is just totally unfair to you. Marriage includes sex. If one party denies it, then they are asking you for celibacy, which is not what you agreed upon. She broke the contract.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

K3itty said:


> Sorry this is happening. Fundamentally, your marriage isn't falling apart because there is no sex. It is because she doesn't love you like she loves a husband. Doesn't she see this is killing you? And she's okay dishing that kind of pain? There's no love there. So this is good reason to leave your marriage. It's suppose to be a partnership, not for one person to hold it together. And you have been patient. I think you need immediate action now.
> 
> But first I am curious, do you guys still have other physical connections? Long hugs? Massages? Things only couples do?
> 
> ...


There is a little but of huge, kisses. We kiss at night, just a pec most nights. Some nights a kiss her a little longer and she Is ok with that. We did have a cuddle session a couple nights ago and she mentioned wanting to do that more often but it all happened in a flow. She was ready for bed, I went to her and kissed her and didnt back away, then it led to us in bed spooning for a good 15 minutes. She wasnt willing to do more though.

Those moments are far in between though, that happens maybe once every 2 months or so, mai ly because I dont focus much of my time anymore at night trying to do that stuff, I usually stay up practicing guitar while she watches shows.

In public there is very little affection, we are a old married couple in public. If o initiate a hand hold, than she is ok with that but she never initiates it.

Often times too I lean in for a random kiss and she will ignore it because she is wiping a dish or trying to finish moisturizing her face. I feel she can at least stop what shes doing for a sec to return the kiss but it's as if she needs to finish what shes doing first.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

In the end I'm scared of her reaction, her guilt trip on me. I know I should care what she says but it does effect me and I end up arguing and trying to justify. Last time I brought up divorce she blew up and said I never loved her, I dont care about my family and all I care about is ****ing. 

She talked about moving out of the country. That she has no one in life, her grandma was right all along that she would be alone to look out for herself. She had a tough grandma that would give her life lessons like that, protect yourself bc no one else will. 

I know its manipulation, but it's a storm that I dont look forward to. Last time I got through it but then the fowing day, I caved. I couldn't image months of deal with the backwardness in the house, I made myself believe there was still hope and told her we can work it out. All was better for 2 weeks. The stress was gone, we did things that weekend as a family, for a short term she was very affectionate, then in 2 to 3 weekstime, her habits returned. I come in to the bedroom and she doesnt want to moved, she into a housewife show and tells me she is very tired and will go to sleep soon. Then back to the routine things went.

,


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

hmvp1981 said:


> Often times too I lean in for a random kiss and she will ignore it because she is wiping a dish or trying to finish moisturizing her face. *I feel she can at least stop what shes doing for a sec to return the kiss but it's as if she needs to finish what shes doing first.
> *



Timing is everything.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

hmvp1981 said:


> Last time I brought up divorce she blew up and said I never loved her, *I dont care about my family and all I care about is ****ing. *
> 
> She talked about moving out of the country.


Wow! 

That however is such a common theme in sex starved marriages. The low desire person treats a partner as if they ONLY care about sex and that there is no legitimate sense of love in the relationship. It is a rather toxic argument because love is hard to quantify and factually observe. However arousal and sexual desire/advances can be easily observed.


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

A bit more info, the other parts of our marriage that were toxic was how she treated me as a child at times and frequently criticized how I watch my daughter. She would always say things like you dont speak to her nicely, or you are the adult and you need to be taking charge. Once she got on me about her being in the bath too long because it was close to her bed time.. once she got so angry at the dogs, she told me to get them but one of them peed and she grabbed my arm and squeezed it. I looked at her firmly and told her never to touch me like that agian. I used to feel like walking on egg shells with he

I confronted her about all that stuff and it changed. She is less dependent on me to do things around the house too. I'm free to come and go and she doesnt complain about being alone to watch the little one.

Those parts of our relationship have gotten better, but the most important part, the sex is still not there.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

hmvp1981 said:


> In the end I'm scared of her reaction, her guilt trip on me. I know I should care what she says but it does effect me and I end up arguing and trying to justify. Last time I brought up divorce she blew up and said I never loved her, I dont care about my family and all I care about is ****ing.
> 
> She talked about moving out of the country. That she has no one in life, her grandma was right all along that she would be alone to look out for herself. She had a tough grandma that would give her life lessons like that, protect yourself bc no one else will.
> 
> ...


Why are you here? You’ve been given a lot of good advice here (some perspective, some actionable) but you don’t seem to be receiving it. You seem to just want us to validate your misery.
I can’t speak for all the folks here, but for many of us, we are here to help you improve your situation, not to validate your victimhood or commiserate with you on what a good martyr you have been.

You need to take action to improve your situation, and the folks here can help you with that. You need a plan and you need to execute it from a position of strength. You’ve been weak and passive, it’s time to be strong.

let’s start with some very simple actions.
1. Download and read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Do it today.
2. start the 180 immediately. You can read up on it here, i’m sure someone will send you a link if you need it. Do it today

Once you’ve done this, report back for further discussion/guidance/next steps.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> Why are you here? You’ve been given a lot of good advice here (some perspective, some actionable) but you don’t seem to be receiving it. You seem to just want us to validate your misery.
> I can’t speak for all the folks here, but for many of us, we are here to help you improve your situation, not to validate your victimhood or commiserate with you on what a good martyr you have been.
> 
> You need to take action to improve your situation, and the folks here can help you with that. You need a plan and you need to execute it from a position of strength. You’ve been weak and passive, it’s time to be strong.
> ...


He already said he was too scared to act ....
Stuck with fear....
Your wasting your good advice 🙄


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

I guess the question for you is, what do YOU ultimately want? 

Can you stay married this way and if she's okay with an ethical non-monogamous arrangements, are you okay with keeping your marriage and getting your sexual needs met this way? 

Or do you only want her to change and become sexually attracted to you to stay married? 

You can't depend on anyone to make you happy. You can only control so much. So if you choose to wait for her to come around, you are setting youself up for disappointment. 

Also, it's another thing if she is actively trying to change, and the results should be immediate. If she doesn't like sex, can she at least give you a hand job? Like there needs to be action to show commitment. 

And she doesn't seem to take your problem seriously. That's so disrespectful. You have to make up your mind and go thru with it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

K3itty said:


> Or do you only want her to change and become sexually attracted to you to stay married?


That is the most dangerous belief possible. It doesn’t exist...... never going to happen. That thought is exactly what keeps people trapped for the rest of their life in a sexless existence.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

hmvp1981 said:


> A bit more info, the other parts of our marriage that were toxic was how she treated me as a child at times and frequently criticized how I watch my daughter. She would always say things like you dont speak to her nicely, or you are the adult and you need to be taking charge. Once she got on me about her being in the bath too long because it was close to her bed time.. once she got so angry at the dogs, she told me to get them but one of them peed and she grabbed my arm and squeezed it. I looked at her firmly and told her never to touch me like that agian. I used to feel like walking on egg shells with he
> 
> I confronted her about all that stuff and it changed. She is less dependent on me to do things around the house too. I'm free to come and go and she doesnt complain about being alone to watch the little one.
> 
> Those parts of our relationship have gotten better, but the most important part, the sex is still not there.



Well, she sure did pick the right man to marry and have a child with. You make a pretty good family as far as appearances go, but in reality, she has learned to control and work you like a pro. That is not marriage. The belittling you is hurtful and controlling. The allowing you certain freedoms such as not complaining when you have been out doing your music with friends is done to appease you so you don't leave her. She is rightfully terrified of being abandoned. 

Rightfully so since her upbringing was torturous. The grandmother was harsh because your wife has lived some horrible experiences. Your wife is failing to realize that you may not be perfect, but you are a damn great catch. She will never give you what you need and deserve, but you two can compromise. 

She is very smart. She knows how to read you. But how does that help you? How does she help you grow and become a better husband, partner, father?

Appeasement and controlling are most certainly not helpful. Her not seeking IC to help her with past traumas/ abuse will not help you get her to want or even give you duty sex. Without professional help, she will never be sexual with you even a little bit. It is not possible bud. You nor anyone else can nice her into being sexually active with you or anyone else for that matter. You gain nothing by beating THAT dead horse!


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## hmvp1981 (May 12, 2021)

Today she asks me to come with her and the little one to the pool, I said it's ok they can go. She then says "why dont you go buy those yummy tacos from the taco truck place and bring them to the pool and we can all eat there?" 

For 2 days I barely have spoken to her and she is trying to do things to make it like we are all back to normal. This is what she wants, companionship, let's get tacos, how fun! Just ignore the big argument we had the other day about sex.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> If he were to divorce and he got split custody, he would have to hire someone to watch his child 2-3 nights of his week. Or, wife would get more custody and he would be paying higher child support.
> 
> He isn't being a martyr for his daughter - he knows his life would be turned upside down.


That's a good point. He needs to get a job where he works office hours ideally. School, day care covers that issue for him.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

And then you went get the tacos like she told you to do.

Dude ...... your blind ..... and easy to play


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hmvp1981 said:


> Today she asks me to come with her and the little one to the pool, I said it's ok they can go. She then says "why dont you go buy those yummy tacos from the taco truck place and bring them to the pool and we can all eat there?"
> 
> For 2 days I barely have spoken to her and she is trying to do things to make it like we are all back to normal. This is what she wants, companionship, let's get tacos, how fun! Just ignore the big argument we had the other day about sex.


It IS back to normal! 

You are her errand boy that does handy little errands and tasks for her. 

She's only mad and scowly when you want something from her that she doesn't want to do. 

You are her ATM and errand boy. 

Whatever other guy she has on the side is her lover.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Has your wife objected to you being out 2-3 nights a week playing in a band while she is home with the child? She could harbor resentments. She could be jealous.


Damn, the guy gets nothing from her. 
she’s not jealous. She’s just not into him and ain’t gonna be.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Damn, the guy gets nothing from her.
> she’s not jealous. She’s just not into him and ain’t gonna be.


Yeah, she'd probably prefer he was gone 7 nights a week as long as he was paying the bills and taking care of the child and household chores during the day. 

The farmer doesn't care what the workhorse does in the barn at night when the work of the day is done.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

hmvp1981 said:


> Today she asks me to come with her and the little one to the pool, I said it's ok they can go. She then says "why dont you go buy those yummy tacos from the taco truck place and bring them to the pool and we can all eat there?"
> 
> For 2 days I barely have spoken to her and she is trying to do things to make it like we are all back to normal. This is what she wants, companionship, let's get tacos, how fun! Just ignore the big argument we had the other day about sex.


How did you respond to her?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hmvp1981 said:


> For 2 days I barely have spoken to her and she is trying to do things to make it like we are all back to normal. This is what she wants, companionship, let's get tacos, how fun! Just ignore the big argument we had the other day about sex.


You're ignoring it too by allowing her to rug-sweep. You can be passive and continue to play along, or you can tell her point blank what you need and want in this marriage. She'll start to manipulate you because that's how she rolls. Either stand up to her and give her an ultimatum or continue to stew in your own juices. Your life. Your choice.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I like 🌮🌮🌮🌮....

I would have taken the kiddo for tacos and enjoyed myself.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sounds like a talker not a doer.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> Sounds like a talker not a doer.


Hence my response #83. OP has done more complaining since then but no report or acknowledgment of the actions recommended...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Mr.Married said:


> And then you went get the tacos like she told you to do.
> 
> Dude ...... your blind ..... and easy to play


Must’ve been a damn good taco.


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