# Sex and pizza



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Since the unexamined life is not worth living, I have some questions about pizza.

In threads about HD/LD issues and other forms of sexual dissatisfaction, somebody often contributes a version of this clever analogy: "bad pizza is better than no pizza." I like this because these seven little words convey some real food (ha) for thought about the value of being thankful for what you have, the importance of having realistic expectations, etc.

But I wonder if this wisdom applies to all people, most people, or only some people.

For example, I love pizza. I think about pizza a lot. I sometimes dream about really good pizza. But bad pizza? I think life is too short to eat bad pizza. If the only pizza available to me is bad pizza, well really I'm happier to just have a salad.

I can only have so much pizza. I'm willing to make a serious effort to get some good pizza. I'll spend hours talking to friends, reading reviews online, etc. I'll do what I can to craft a good pizza at home. Sometimes after these efforts, I still end up with bad pizza, but it's kind of OK because it's another step on the road to the holy grail. I know I could easily get good pizza whenever I want if I'm willing to make some extreme trade-offs, like uprooting my family and moving to New York, Chicago, or Naples...or dipping into my child's college fund and remodeling my kitchen with a wood-fired brick oven. But clearly, even though I love pizza, The costs of such actions outweigh the benefits.

Will I be happiest if I work hard to not be such a pizza snob? If there's some way to lower my expectations far enough, I should caper like a spaniel with table scraps even if presented with a burned Totino's Party Pizza.

Or should I continue my quest for really good pizza, even if the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over hoping for a different result?

Or? Pizza afficianados please reply.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm with you all the way! I work hard to have the best pizza I can get and no, I can't be satisfied with cold tasteless cafeteria style pizza, I'll have something else instead.

If I was too lazy to work hard to get great pizza, I should shut up and stop complaining when the pizza is lousy. But if I am more than willing to put forth that effort...I want great pizza!

Great analogy!


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Bad pizza is better than no pizza also implies there are only tow choices. That is not true. There are two other choices. Fix bad pizza of which on occasion I have had to by adding spices or additional ingredients to make bad pizza gooder.

I can also decide not to get pizza from the same place as I am tired of having to fix bad pizza into good pizza. 

Bottom line is accept it, fix it or change it are the choices. Captain Obvious clichés are usually not helpful as they leave out too many details to be useful.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Personally, I chose to go for Mexican food. Or Chinese. Or French... I decided I wasn't going to live on bad pizza alone.

But no haggis. I had to draw the line somewhere...

C


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Do you settle for the best pizza you can get? You know, there are always new pizza parlors opening. Do you continue your search as these new ones open? That's how I've found more tasty and satisfying pizzas(yes I'm now talking about real food).


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

I understand your caveat about talking about real food here. Does this mean the analogy is broken, or confirmed?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

PBear said:


> Personally, I chose to go for Mexican food. Or Chinese. *Or French*... I decided I wasn't going to live on bad pizza alone.
> 
> But no haggis. I had to draw the line somewhere...
> 
> C


Not a big fan of French cuisine. Maybe I never had it from a true 4 start French Chef before, but from what I see it's rather bland food if you ask me. I'm all for delicate sauces that add depth, etc. but if you take the sauces away from French food, there's nothing else there really aside from food that was cooked well from a moisture/doneness standpoint. The food itself is bland and everything is predicated on the sauces.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Big Dude said:


> I understand your caveat about talking about real food here. Does this mean the analogy is broken, or confirmed?


IDK, but the real point is whether it's better to get bad sex or no sex. Ultimately it's up to the individual as to what he/she prefers. Recently, there has been several threads where a few people posted (me included) that the mind is the best sexual organ we have. I fully 100% embrace that idea. I can see both sides as to why someone would be happy to get it regardless of quality vs avoiding bad sex so as to not build associations within the mind that causes someone to view sex in a negative light based on bad experiences with it.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

PBear said:


> But no haggis. I had to draw the line somewhere...
> 
> C


I can't say I've ever gone there. But I am, you know, just a wee bit curious about the soft inner parts of a sheep. Maybe after enough bad pizza it would be worth a try.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Recently, there has been several threads where a few people posted (me included) that the mind is the best sexual organ we have. I fully 100% embrace that idea.


So if I can discover a way to modify my mind in regards to tastes and preferences, I should be able to lower my expectations enough to be satisfied with what is available to me?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Big Dude said:


> So if I can discover a way to modify my mind in regards to tastes and preferences, I should be able to lower my expectations enough to be satisfied with what is available to me?


I think you miss the point. What makes the naked female body so captivating to a male? Is it seeing the form in and of itself or is it the scenario you build up within your mind where your are interacting with a woman? It's the latter, because it depends on the context of when and where you are viewing a naked body. A naked woman in a Dr's examination room is probably not a very appealing situation for most people; however, if you set the mood with candlelight, satin sheets, good wine, etc... then it changes the perspective of the situation completely. 

When it comes to the sexuality and the mind, I think the ultimate goal is to not lower expectations. The goal should be to elevate the experience so that it is hotter for both. Reach the mind of the spouse who is not as sensual in order to awaken the sexual creature within. Sorry to sound so cliche, but that's how I view it.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Reach the mind of the spouse who is not as sensual in order to awaken the sexual creature within. Sorry to sound so cliche, but that's how I view it.


It's not cliché, it's good advice. But it does seem to violate the maxim that the only person you can change is yourself. Reaching the mind of a spouse that does not want to be reached is a tall order, maybe impossibly tall.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I've noticed a difference since I got into my 40's. I just want the real things in life. My priorities have become more clear. For instance we live in a smallish house. The four of us share a bathroom (children are teenage girls to add to that situation.) It the way I want it though. I love architecture and houses and admire larger more historic houses. As a life priority, though, it doesn't annoy motivate me because I love to travel so much. If I have extra money I want experiences with it - that is what is important to ME.

My poor husband has really been through the wringer this year because suddenly the sex we were having became unacceptable to me. What started out as an orgasm problem quickly uncovered an intimacy issue that was much more problematic. I want much more from him than I used to and it is through sex that i want it. 

So anyway, blah pizza is acceptable every now and again by I can no longer live on it like I might have when I was younger.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> So anyway, blah pizza is acceptable every now and again by I can no longer live on it like I might have when I was younger.


Amen sister.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Big Dude said:


> It's not cliché, it's good advice. But it does seem to violate the maxim that the only person you can change is yourself. Reaching the mind of a spouse that does not want to be reached is a tall order, maybe impossibly tall.


True, you can only change yourself. But your spouse already chose to love you and she (hopefully) has continued to choose to love you through your marriage. I'd say it isn't so much you trying to change your wife to be something she isn't, it's you trying to persuade your wife to join you while you take your relationship to a deeper level. Just my take on it.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

A really great pizza is a rare thing. Usually they have something or other you would prefer to be otherwise if you where actually able to create your own. 

I have never seen a perfect pizza in my life -although I have had a few that could f**k really well.  oops


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I honestly dont know if we will make it. I have been doing a lot of soul searching on the matter. I don't believe that he is withholding from me. I think he is who he is. 

On one side I have a very happy life, we are set up for a good future together, I love his family, we have a great group of friends. 

Weighing on the other side - the knowledge that I will probably never get to have the sexual experiences I crave in this relationship.

A year ago I would have told a woman she was an ungrateful harpy for saying such a thing and looked at her with distaste. Now that woman is me.

My mother had an affair at my age and I now totally get it. That is not to say it is acceptable or morally correct. However, I can now feel the same things that likely accelerated her situation. That's the 40s for you. Crazy times.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

As someone who really has no need for pizza in my life whatsoever, it better be one frickin' awesome pizza to keep me interested.

I'm incredibly LD left to my own devices and my SO is incredibly HD. To keep to the food analogy, I wouldn't be working as hard as I am to find compromises to the LD/HD issue if he didn't bake a_ fantastic_ pizza.
Blah pizza is ok once in a while, but I'm not really willing to work this hard for burned Totinos everyday.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> As someone who really has no need for pizza in my life whatsoever, it better be one frickin' awesome pizza to keep me interested.
> 
> I'm incredibly LD left to my own devices and my SO is incredibly HD. To keep to the food analogy, I wouldn't be working as hard as I am to find compromises to the LD/HD issue if he didn't bake a_ fantastic_ pizza.
> Blah pizza is ok once in a while, but I'm not really willing to work this hard for burned Totinos everyday.


Sounds like He's the one who is working hard to make a good pizza! Or does he just have the mad skilz to make it look easy?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I honestly dont know if we will make it. I have been doing a lot of soul searching on the matter. I don't believe that he is withholding from me. I think he is who he is.
> 
> On one side I have a very happy life, we are set up for a good future together, I love his family, we have a great group of friends.
> 
> ...


Life is humbling, isn't it? It is so easy to judge when you haven't lived it yourself.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I totally agree with your analogy in principle.


However, I do like Totinos.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If I find a better pizza restaurant, I'm dumping the old one!

IMO, good sex is always better than bad sex, and NO sex is better than bad sex. Sex, like pizza, is best when hot. I'm no longer willing to put up with no/bad sex - or pizza.

Where the analogy fails is that it is always acceptable to eat a different pizza, and give up on the old. It's not acceptable to have another woman - at least in most relationships - before giving up on the old. Of course if either a pizza or the current woman aren't satisfying, you can more easily decide to give up on them and move on to try another.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

Great pizza is better than bad pizza, and bad pizza CAN be better than no pizza. But a starving man will eat the rat and cheese special pizza - doesn't mean he will enjoy, or that he won't regret it later. It he might next time choose no pizza.
Market forces would tend to dictate, however, that a pizzeria that continuously served bad pizza, would eventually lose customers. Hence why when those pizzeria's see new opportunities, they fire back up the extra-cheese, extra-meat, extra-veggies options.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Geeze...

I started to read this thread because I thought it was about sex...


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> A year ago I would have told a woman she was an ungrateful harpy for saying such a thing and looked at her with distaste. Now that woman is me.





jld said:


> Life is humbling, isn't it? It is so easy to judge when you haven't lived it yourself...


:iagree: It becomes so hard to maintain the ability to be decisive, once life hits you with things like this. Not just in marriage, either. Sigh.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

What about when you find really good pizza but it gets a bit boring with the same toppings? Maybe you're requesting to change it up, try something new, like ham and pineapple or sausage (sorry) and peppers but the order comes in with same old pepperoni and olives or plain cheese.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

YupItsMe said:


> ...Captain Obvious clichés are usually not helpful as they leave out too many details to be useful.


A younger me wouldn't have agreed. The current me agrees. The future me? Can't be sure if he'd agree or disagree!

By the way one particularly funny analogy-pairing centers on wine.

You can find some people arguing "life is too short to drink cheap wine."

In other, oppositional and probably similarly useless analogies, you can read the argument that true wine lovers *always* drink cheap-ish wine, because, excepting the very rich, any wine a connoisseur would regard as great is too expensive to be consumed in loving-quantities.

All of which probably proves......nothing.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

There is a saying; "why go out for a beefburger when you have steak at home?"......If you get tough and uninteresting steak once a month at home just because your wife feels she ought to cook you one....

A beefburger cooked willingly and happily by someone else suddenly becomes far more tempting.... Specially if accompanied by a glass of Cabernet-Sauvignon and a smile!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

askari said:


> There is a saying; "why go out for a beefburger when you have steak at home?"......If you get tough and uninteresting steak once a month at home just because your wife feels she ought to cook you one....
> 
> A beefburger cooked willingly and happily by someone else suddenly becomes far more tempting.... Specially if accompanied by a glass of Cabernet-Sauvignon and a smile!


It doesn't matter how well that "beefburger" is made at home every single day. Sometimes I just want chicken - or pizza. And that - on a bun - is the fundamental problem of monogamy.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

I love pizza too. There is a great pizza joint here in town. Some of the best I have ever eaten. For 15 years I have gone. Sometimes its spectacular, other times its just pretty damn good. 

The key is for FIFTEEN YEARS I have had the same pizza and still enjoy it. You know why?? The pizzaria did not change their recipe. They did not start using bad ingredients. Their service level did not change. They did not decide they do not want my money anymore, or start giving me anchovies even though I consistently asked for pepperoni. They gave me what I asked for. I paid my bill. I did my part, they did theirs.

So goes with our sexual relationship issues. They start out with great service, perfect pepperoni, and so on. Then over time it starts to fade into something else. We do not get what we ask for, service slows, the chef quits, whatever. Then the anchovies start coming. Yeah I still eat the pizza but my enjoyment level wanes to the point where I just might either switch restaurants or I have to accept the bad pizza.

In that analogy if the restaurant acted like that they would go out of business.

Thats why so many of us are on here....to decide if we just accept the anchovies or we find another pizzeria OR figure out how to get the chef to get their damn pepperoni back. 

Beating my damn head against the wall trying to get my pepperoni back.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Cyclist - if it hasnt been on 'Diners, Drive-ins and Dives'...its not worth going to.
:smthumbup:


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Cyclist said:


> Then the anchovies start coming.


There should be legal recourse for something like this.

Does the owner lamely try to justify the anchovies? Saying they're good for you, lots of Omega 3's? That lots of normal people like anchovies just fine, so get over yourself? Or suck it up, 'cuz that's all they've got left in the pantry anymore?

Kind of sad when all you can do is try to get your money back.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Big Dude said:


> There should be legal recourse for something like this.
> 
> Does the owner lamely try to justify the anchovies? Saying they're good for you, lots of Omega 3's? That lots of normal people like anchovies just fine, so get over yourself? Or suck it up, 'cuz that's all they've got left in the pantry anymore?
> 
> Kind of sad when all you can do is try to get your money back.



Owner says "I am trying" yeah well lots of pizza places tried themselves right out of business.

In my position I do have legal recourse. My "owner" is my live in GF. Of course she wants to get married so then I will be locked down.

Yesterday was my birthday. I wanted pepperoni. Really its all I asked for. But that would be impossible when its out of stock. In fact I am getting to the point where ill just skip eating all together. Its like a mental thing....that waiter that wont bring your order right. They just refuse to and then blame whatever other situation they want to. In reality they dont understand what it takes to please the customer.

This customer is frustrated.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

when I was younger bad pizza was still eaten and bad sex was still taken but as I aged I no longer care for either.

instead of eating bad pizza I will get or make something different and instead of bad sex I would rather rub one out.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

There is NO "good" or "bad" pizza.

When you know the quality of the ingredients required, the time required, and the required techniques, all you need to do is put in the work and care.

Of course, different people like different pizza - greek, italian, whatever. Crust, cheeses, sauces. Of course, the proper SPICE and extras, such as toppings can add to the pizza, but, as the "Association of True Neapolitan Pizza"(AVPN - Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana
will instruct you, all you need is a very plain dough, a bit of GMO-free sauce, a bit of cheese and some basil is what it REALLY is.

I'll just say this more... For eight years now, my wife and I have not ordered a delivery, nor went to a restaurant for pizza, other than times we were on vacation. I make my own pizza, properly proof the dough, get good ingredients, and know the techs to produce several very different kinds of pizza. The refusal to go out for it, or even look for it is my wife's choice.

You're just looking at running around, trying to find something you're not even sure of, yourself - or else you would have already found that "slice of heaven". Do the same amount of work as you would if you were employed part-time at a pizzeria, and worry as if your livelihood depended on the job. A new "yoga", if you will.

Anyone can just go down the corner and buy some pizza, and as you already know, you don't necessarily get what you paid for, or what you expected or wanted.

Learn, properly, to make your own figurative pizza, then adjust it such that you both find it is the best you can get. Your work, skill, and personal taste will result in a most mutual satisfaction.

BTW, once my wife wanted to try "real italian pizza", so we went on a trip to Italy. Despite the romantic illusions, the hopes, and the significant price of pizza there, it absolutely SUCKED, we both agreed.

Now, doner kebabs, on the other hand...


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## kimd (Oct 12, 2013)

Sex and pizza. This reminds me of a scene in a porn movie my husband and I watched a while back.


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