# Proving men are "prewired to cheat"



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

I read this article yesterday. *Dude is basically saying the cheater is not the problem but a spouse that expects the other spouse to stay with one person during marriage is the problem. He said MEN though. I'm saying spouse because men and women cheat not just men. The first problem I have is the dude using college students.* He could have done half college students and half grown settled older men who have families and then compared the infidelitiey between both groups. ANYWAY, wish I could email this "Eric Anderson"- guess I will attempt to email him my perspective of his book.
_______________________________________________


A well-known author has written a book proving that men are pre-wired to cheat because they like sex — even though they love their wives or girlfriends.
Professor Eric Anderson’s book The Monogamy Gap: Men, Love, and The Reality of Cheating, details a study that he conducted using 120 college students. Anderson found that cheating is the norm for men, not the exception.


 In the study, Anderson found that 78% of the male participants cheated on their wives or girlfriends — even though they loved their partners and did not want to break up.
In an interview with The Huffington Post, Anderson states that “infidelity does not break marriages up; it is the unreasonable expectation that a marriage must restrict sex that breaks a marriage up.”
In other words, it’s not the cheating that breaks up marriages, it’s women’s unrealistic expectations that a man should have sex with only one woman.
In order to preserve human existence, man must be fruitful (highly productive) and sow the seeds of future generations. This can not be achieved if 90% of men are married monogamously to a single woman and each couple bears an average of 2.5 children.
If men were not more sexually productive, the human species would cease to exist due to the effects of disease, deaths, old age, etc. Not to mention the deformities from inbreeding (incest between blood relatives).



Millions of years ago, the human lifespan was much shorter than it is today. But the rules of Evolution still apply even though women selfishly and stubbornly cling to the narcissistic notion that they “own” their men. Human beings are not born to be owned. And neither are we born to be monogamous.
Over the years women have grown to accept the fact that men are born to cheat.
Actress Goldie Hawn has been in a relationship with actor Kurt Russell for 27 years. Goldie believes that infidelity is in a man’s nature.

“I don’t believe we own anybody,” the actress said in a Vanity Fair interview. “I don’t think Kurt sexually only has eyes for me…The reality of him going out, of traveling, of seeing a woman—I think it’s kind of unnatural not to have those tendencies,”Adds Kurt, “Men are not suppose to see one woman and only desire one woman…that’s just science. If the species doesn’t mutate, it’ll die…This is a man. That is what he is on earth for.” Source
In some cultures infidelity and polygamy are accepted ways of life. In those cultures men bear children with multiple women the way it was originally intended to be.


Dr. Anderson maintains that women should allow their men to stray without subjecting them to any of the highly emotional guilt trips that women are famous for.
Many of you women will discuss Dr. Anderson’s study as foolishness. But that won’t stop your man from looking at other women, or desiring them sexually.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

sells books i guess.


----------



## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Guess my wiring is all screwed up then.

Either that or the "professor" doesn't know s*** from apple butter.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think the right term would be "prewired to be non-monogamous." and it is nothing new. Also it is the same reason a woman gets horny at that time of the month.


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Anderson states that “infidelity does not break marriages up; it is the unreasonable expectation that a marriage must restrict sex that breaks a marriage up.”

How dare we women be so unreasonable! 

So men SHOULD be going around father babies with different women? And who supports them financially? And do we start tagging our kids so they don't breed with their siblings somewhere in the future?

Honestly, he is implying that men don't have a sense of possessiveness about their women? And a man can have sex with whomever and not have a need for personal intimacy that comes with being in love and commited to one person?

I really don't believe that many men, in all seriousness, would agree to what this man says.


----------



## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Evolutionary speaking, men are wired to be non-monogamous (as are women, to some extent ... Always looking for better genes). 
But the problem with those who rely on evolutionary biology to support such theories is that they leave out the evolution part. We're no longer living in caves, yet when it comes to sex they treat us as if we're cavemen. The survival of the species no longer requires us men to spread our seed as often and widely as possible. Back then, non-monogamy was essential and there were severe societal consequences of it not being practiced.

Today, the opposite is largely true. The are more negative consequences of nonmonogamy than positive ones. Our primal instincts certainly remain at some level, but I'd like to think that evolution is a constant process and - like everything else about us - our reproductive urges change over the millenia.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

While listening to an audio book this morning, I heard that men are pre-wired to procreate.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

From life experience and just reading the threads on here and other boards that deal with infidelity, it appears as if women are doing most of the cheating.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah yeah, more of the same propaganda from the open relationship poly crowd.

Bunch of pseudo science stuff collected not to see what is what, but to instead advance a political agenda that marriage is out dated and that society is wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Complexity said:


> From life experience and just reading the threads on here and other boards that deal with infidelity, it appears as if women are doing most of the cheating.


Hmmm...who are they cheating WITH? :scratchhead:


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Dellia said:


> Hmmm...who are they cheating WITH? :scratchhead:


I'm talking exclusively in marriages here. And they're usually cheating with scumbag unmarried men who get a high from cheating with married women.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

1. It gives people the idea that cheating is ok. "Hey, it's biology. Yes I have a brain, but I don't like using it."

2. It makes cheaters feel good about their choices. "Sure, I could be faithful, but why fight biology? It's not my fault..."

We all have the ability to cheat. We all are at risk of it at one point or another. Thing is, non-cheaters THINK before they act. Non-cheaters CHOOSE not to act upon things no matter the circumstances.

Cheaters do not. Then they read garbage like this so the blame and guilt can be lifted of of their shoulders. Cause, it's science, right?

That's my two cents.


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I'm talking exclusively in marriages here. And they're usually cheating with scumbag unmarried men who get a high from cheating with married women.


Yes, you might be right


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

I guess I'm an anomoly then.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Eric (I refuse to call him a Doctor after reading that crap) Anderson completely contradicts himself when he uses "evolution" as his ideology behind justifying men's primal instincts on sex leading them to cheat, because he ignores the fact that humanity has evolved intellectually as well.

Both men and women have evolved physically to have sex with each other, meaning women are not excluded to the ideologies of procreation in general. If you want to break it down to simple evolution terms, both genders evolved to have sex. So by Anderson's logic, both genders are "wired to cheat"???

"Cheating" is a social term of modern civilization, meaning it is held to the standards of evolved intellect. It is a term applied as an intentional, pre-meditated decision to act. Therefore it is technically impossible to be "pre-wired to cheat" from an evolutionary standpoint. You make a decision to do it, which is a moral decision, and it is in no way exclusive to men or women.

Humans are "pre-wired" to have sex... when we decided to cheat that is making a choice which ignores a moral standard.


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I'm talking exclusively in marriages here. And they're usually cheating with scumbag unmarried men who get a high from cheating with married women.


 
Exactly! Doing a study on college men as opposed to college men and settled men who have families and in their careers or college women and settled women who have families and are in their careers. 

Where is he going with that and I wonder if he is married or single or have children


----------



## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

that_girl said:


> 1. It gives people the idea that cheating is ok. "Hey, it's biology. Yes I have a brain, but I don't like using it."
> 
> 2. It makes cheaters feel good about their choices. "Sure, I could be faithful, but why fight biology? It's not my fault..."
> 
> ...


 
You are so right!


----------



## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Complexity said:


> From life experience and just reading the threads on here and other boards that deal with infidelity, it appears as if women are doing most of the cheating.


Betrayed husbands are overrepresented here. I suspect it's because a betrayed wife is more likely to turn to friends and family for help and support whereas a man is more likely to turn to a place where they can seek support anonymously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Betrayed husbands are overrepresented here. I suspect it's because a betrayed wife is more likely to turn to friends and family for help and support whereas a man is more likely to turn to a place where they can seek support anonymously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


maybe, maybe not. I agree going by the stories on one website is not a reliable sample of the overall population, however IMO, I think most guys on here see this trend happening all over, I don't think that its just the blanket has been pulled down from our eyes, I think there is a flood of recently betrayed men wondering WTF just happened and why did we all end up here.


----------



## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

FrankKissel said:


> Betrayed husbands are overrepresented here. I suspect it's because a betrayed wife is more likely to turn to friends and family for help and support whereas a man is more likely to turn to a place where they can seek support anonymously.


I wouldn't be too sure about that. If you go over to the cheaters forum which I have posted a link to in the past the vast majority of the posters are women. Just a SWAG on my part but I would guestimate it's about 90% F / 10% M

Matter of fact there was a recent thread over there discussing the disparity.

Regards,

rotor


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think women are lied to as little girls about love, marriage, men.

I was lied to so I had to teach myself.

There is no 'happily ever after'. Seriously. Not that I'm not happy, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows all the time...

Many women think it should be, so they leave,....always the hopeless romantic, trying to recreate that 'new' feeling.

Don't know about men though.


----------



## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> 1. It gives people the idea that cheating is ok. "Hey, it's biology. Yes I have a brain, but I don't like using it."
> 
> 2. It makes cheaters feel good about their choices. "Sure, I could be faithful, but why fight biology? It's not my fault..."
> 
> ...


Your two cents is worth a million dollars!


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I feel the male/female ratio of cheaters fluctuates on TAM, sometimes one seems to surpass the other. Lately it seems like there's been a lot of male cheaters posting about leaving their wives and seeking advice. 

In real life I only know of two female cheaters, but know of 4 male cheaters (including my H) but that doesn't mean more men cheat than woman. So many affairs go undetected, I think it's impossible to guess who is the worse offender. My guess, it's split pretty 50/50. I'll have to ask our therapist the next time we meet, she might actually have an answer.

I have to laugh at that article about men being "prewired to cheat". If men are, then so are woman. Using the author's rationalization, woman should want to copulate with any man during ovulation as long as it propagated the species. Her choice could change every month depending on who was the best "specimen" and provider. The writer dude needs a reality check.


----------



## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

that_girl said:


> 1. It gives people the idea that cheating is ok. "Hey, it's biology. Yes I have a brain, but I don't like using it."
> 
> 2. It makes cheaters feel good about their choices. "Sure, I could be faithful, but why fight biology? It's not my fault..."


Or my favorite of all time, "I'm only human", in an attempt to downplay their behavior.




> We all have the ability to cheat.


But not all of us have it in our character.


----------



## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> Humans are "pre-wired" to have sex... when we decided to cheat that is making a choice which ignores a moral standard.


I agree. Humans are pre-wired with a survival instinct, too. But society has severe penalties for baseless murder, so one man will be discouraged from killing another one for his food, as might have happened in pre-historic times. 

Society rarely frowns on adultery, and actually gives it more attention than it deserves, in a way that normalizes it to many people. There are few laws against adultery, which is unfortunate because it is a crime against a marriage, a family, a community and society's construction as a whole.


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

"Goldie believes that infidelity is in a man’s nature" as well as in Goldie Hawn's nature!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Gee, so what his is explaination for men getting so upset when their wive cheats?


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

The ability to reflect on one's actions and their consequences is what distinguishes human from an animal. Pretending you do what you do because you are essentially an oversized rabbit doesn't cut it, sorry.


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Men are hard-wired to f*ck and kill. I nonetheless have been able to refrain from beating my neighbor to death with a gravel rake and at the same time have resisted banging his wife like a screendoor in a hurricane.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

FrankKissel said:


> Evolutionary speaking, men are wired to be non-monogamous (as are women, to some extent ... Always looking for better genes).
> But the problem with those who rely on evolutionary biology to support such theories is that they leave out the evolution part. We're no longer living in caves, yet when it comes to sex they treat us as if we're cavemen. The survival of the species no longer requires us men to spread our seed as often and widely as possible. Back then, non-monogamy was essential and there were severe societal consequences of it not being practiced.
> 
> Today, the opposite is largely true. The are more negative consequences of nonmonogamy than positive ones. Our primal instincts certainly remain at some level, but I'd like to think that evolution is a constant process and - like everything else about us - our reproductive urges change over the millenia.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I could not agree more if I tried. Back millions of years ago we were more like animals. That's why females accepted their mates going after others, because back then we (males and females) were more interested in procreation, we did NOT have any emotinal attachment with one another. Now a days it's a different world.

The same happens with female instincts. We hear men all the time complainning that women only want money for being too greedy. Yet nobody points out that EVERY female in nature is wired to seek the male who can provide the most, both in resources and genes. In humans that means money and alpha male. It also means that women are wired to (in theory) leave their current mates to be with another who is now in her eyes, the best provider of resources and genes. But do most men accept that concept?

But like you said, we are constantly evolving, we are NOT animals anymore, now both those male and female instincts cause more harm than good. 

That's why to me female AND male infidelity still is more of a choice.


----------



## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I think women are lied to as little girls about love, marriage, men.
> 
> I was lied to so I had to teach myself.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. I refure to this as Fairy tale Trainning. I was under the impression that there was a happy ever after and that I needed to have a hero ride in and save me. Yet now I would not trade any of the things he does to show me he is thinking of me and loves me. They are not like I was told to believe things were to be but they are real and I love them.COLOR]


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

You also have to remember that human females aren't 100% monogamous yet either. It's a human thing to still have desire for others despite being with someone. 

The idea that women only want love was created in the past to brainwash females in order to get them to behave. Men have always had the option to have a serious relationship or just adventures but women were always told that if we wanted to be good and honorable women we had to want one man only and marry virgins.

Now that society has become more open about what is acceptable in female sexuality, look the way women are behaving. Just as bad as men did in the past. Wanting more casual sex than meaningful relationships.

If women truly were wired to be monogamous, then how come did they learn to cheat? And cheat a LOT!

The idea that women can't separate love from sex, as some have stated many times, is also flawed. 

Which gender in human history, has used sex as weapon and as "money" more than the other? I think it's obvious. How can people say then that women cannot separate love from sex? Also many women marry for money and have sex all their lives with their rich husbands (only to keep him around), yet they do not fall in love with them.

PS.:I am NOT defending female infidelity AT ALL here, I am just explaing that I do NOT believe when someone says that only males are wired to seek more than one partner.


----------



## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

What a messed up study. In truth anyone is capable of cheating and I would much rather read an artical about why some do not cheat.

Men are not hard wired to cheat they are hard wired to have sex just as are wemon. 

I think that to do a study on collage aged men and pin adult grown men to that is messed up. Most adult men don't think the same as their younger fellows and have a different social life and things so it really is not fair to say that men are hard wired to cheat when you are talking to their younger counter parts. Just don't believe that it translates well.


----------



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Some very interesting arguments here. But the one I see ignored is, if we have evolved so much as humans, and have surpassed the procreation/survival of the species model, then whyis there still attraction for others?
Think about it, if monogamy is derived from evolution, then wouldn't we have evolved to find every other human being despicable upon finding our mate? Yes, cheating is a choice, but so was procreating back in the day. If the specie did not choose to procreate, then it would not happen. Even back then, women chose the A male to procreate with. So this idea that they were not thinking back then, is somewhat naiive. 
Granted, if you feel the need to be with as many people as you choose, don't get married, but then you still get labels when you do. So people get married many times to satisfy those judgmental types, and exhibit their ways in private/secret. 
And as history has a tendency of repeating itself. With monogamous relationships, and people having 2.5 children, then factoring in the losses to death by various methods, won't we end right back up to that point? So maybe some folks are just ahead of the curve. 
The only thing that discredits all this is that, if when men cheated, all the women they cheated with were bearing their children, then you would have to scrtch your head and say maybe there is something to this. But the desire to cheat is not from the need to procreate, it's to get that new feeling. As the line in many an urban song/movie goes: "There's no pu$$y like new pu$$y."
Which brings me back to my original argument, if the evolution of man dictates that monogamy is now the "norm", why do we still manage to find others attractive? Wouldn't evolution dictate that as well. Oh, and by the way, we are constantly evolving, so people's ideas of marriage and monogamy can change as well.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Professor Eric Anderson’s book The Monogamy Gap: Men, Love, and The Reality of Cheating, details a study that he conducted using *120 college students*.

120 College students? Seriously? That should destroy any credibility this book has right there. :rofl:


----------



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Professor Eric Anderson’s book The Monogamy Gap: Men, Love, and The Reality of Cheating, details a study that he conducted using *120 college students*.
> 
> 120 College students? Seriously? That should destroy any credibility this book has right there. :rofl:


Well, we all were those college students at some point in time. And it is around that age and time where people find the partners they end up marrying. It didn't say whether they were seniors or freshmen, that may be where the disparity lies. But as a senior, you're pretty much a man/woman and your thought process for your 20's at least have been defined. Only thing that changes those processes is life experience.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The original purpose of marriage was not for a man and a woman to share their lives and find sexual, emotional and spiritual fulfillment in a monogamous relationship. It was to pair male and female offspring so they could become a self sufficient survival unit which could also contribute to the resources of the FOO (family of origin). Promiscuity - a natural evolutionary trait for improving the gene pool - was anathema to the purpose of marriage because it put in jeopardy resources which belonged only to the married couple and the FOO. So the artificial social constructs of marriage and monogamy were instituted by clans to safeguard against the 'theft' of vital resources from others. We can see proof of this in our marriage laws which convey half ownership of all resources acquired during the time a couple has been married.

Kurosity is right, both men and women are hard wired to form romantic/sexual relationships with more than one person but those who choose to get married - unless stated beforehand - do so, out of their own free will, vow to abide by the historic romantic/sexual exclusivity of it.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Well, we all were those college students at some point in time. And it is around that age and time where people find the partners they end up marrying. It didn't say whether they were seniors or freshmen, that may be where the disparity lies. But as a senior, you're pretty much a man/woman and your thought process for your 20's at least have been defined. Only thing that changes those processes is life experience.


From my experience, I was ready for marriage, while my college sweetheart ex-wife apparently wasn't and cheated on me with a classmate of hers. To base a book on a sampling of only 120 college students is ridiculous. How many people are ready for marriage and ready to settle down even during their senior year?

I'm reminded of all those Girls Gone Wild and all those Spring Break videos.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Some very interesting arguments here. But the one I see ignored is, if we have evolved so much as humans, and have surpassed the procreation/survival of the species model, then whyis there still attraction for others?
> Think about it, if monogamy is derived from evolution, then wouldn't we have evolved to find every other human being despicable upon finding our mate? Yes, cheating is a choice, but so was procreating back in the day. If the specie did not choose to procreate, then it would not happen. Even back then, women chose the A male to procreate with. So this idea that they were not thinking back then, is somewhat naiive.
> Granted, if you feel the need to be with as many people as you choose, don't get married, but then you still get labels when you do. So people get married many times to satisfy those judgmental types, and exhibit their ways in private/secret.
> And as history has a tendency of repeating itself. With monogamous relationships, and people having 2.5 children, then factoring in the losses to death by various methods, won't we end right back up to that point? So maybe some folks are just ahead of the curve.
> ...


I can see what you mean. But personally I don't believe that monogamy was created by society only. 

I believe we evolved naturally to want to stay with monogamous relationships. After all every instinct has to have a purpose for being. 

The purpose for poligamy was procreation NOT lust/sexual pleasure. And when someone cheats (whether they are male or female) they are NOT intenting to have a child in the process.

Just the other day I was watching a documentry on National Geographic and they had this Doctor (I'm sorry I don't recall her name, I'll check) and she was commenting about people who have open relationships. 

And she said many studies show that humans are what they call a "pair-bonding species" NOT polygamous. She did say that humans (males and females) tend to be unfaithful but we still tend to want to form pairs. 

And she explained that's why we feel jealousy and it's so hard not be jealousy from time to time. 

Because we simply are not made to want to share our patners with others. That is why not everyone could stand the thought of being in a open relationship. 

Personally that's what I have always believed myself. That humans may not 100% monogamous but we are 100% controlled by our urges to seek another while in a relationship either. I f we choose we can indeed walk away without having to give to the other person we feel attracted to.

When we do it's more of a choice rather than something we are bound to do whether we want it or not. It's not something we cannot control as some people claim sometimes.


----------



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> From my experience, I was ready for marriage, while my college sweetheart ex-wife apparently wasn't and cheated on me with a classmate of hers. To base a book on a sampling of only 120 college students is ridiculous. How many people are ready for marriage and ready to settle down even during their senior year?
> 
> I'm reminded of all those Girls Gone Wild and all those Spring Break videos.


Well, you just answered your own question. You were ready, she was not. thats' 50% right there  
But seriously, that girls gone wild stuff is usually done by freshmen, the "naughty 18 y.o. coeds". Seniors are usually somewhere in their early to mid twenties and have found an equal that they want to be with. there is a difference in behaviors. Yes, there are juvenile seniors, but there are juvenile 44 year olds.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

What I am trying to say is that althought we still have some urges we must learn to control them in order to preserve our relationships when have them. It's either that or stay single.

Just because something can be explained with science it does not mean it fits today's world. That what I tried to say when I mentioned the female instinct that makes us want to be with males who can provide the most. 

Now a days, it's no longer necessary, as females are more and more indenpent and can now contribute to family's income. You'd think that in the past, males did not mind having females want them only for their resources, if anything males back then flaunted them so they could attract females. 

But today is a different story, as more and more men are NOT willing to marry women who only want their money.

The same happens with polygamy. Once upon a time it was more than acceptable, and females did not mind sharing their mates. However, back then we were more interest in procreation. We did not become attached to our male partners emotionally. Today is, just as with the female instinct, a different story.

That's why any woman who is more interested in resources/money is doing so out of greed, not out of the need to fulfill her instinct. The same goes for the males who want many women while in relationships. They are doing so out lust, not to fufill their instinct.


----------



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

NatashaYurino said:


> I can see what you mean. But personally I don't believe that monogamy was created by society only.
> 
> I believe we evolved naturally to want to stay with monogamous relationships. After all every instinct has to have a purpose for being.
> 
> ...



Very good points, but again I ask. If we have so evolved to become monogamous, why is there still an attraction to outside people? what is the necessity behind that desire? Is it just proof that we are still, at our core, the same as our very distant cave dwelling relatives? 
As for jealousy, that's just insecurities overtaking your emotions. If your partner makes you secure, jealousy has no place in your mind.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Very good points, but again I ask. If we have so evolved to become monogamous, why is there still an attraction to outside people? what is the necessity behind that desire? Is it just proof that we are still, at our core, the same as our very distant cave dwelling relatives?
> As for jealousy, that's just insecurities overtaking your emotions. If your partner makes you secure, jealousy has no place in your mind.


I agree with what you said about jealousy.

As for the attraction we still feel for others while in relationships. I do not believe there is a _reason_ for it. I believe it is just a "leftover" from the strong instinct we all once had. Just like anger and agression.

Back in the day our violent tendencies served a purpose. To protect ourselves, our infants from predators,etc...

While we still have the "leftovers" of our instinct for being agressive, we can now control ourselves much better than we did back then. Those tendencies do not take over most people in society and make them agressive to the point of killing a lot of people for stupid reasons. There are always exceptions of course. 

The same with being attracted to many people instead of only one. It's what is left of our polygamous past.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

NatashaYurino said:


> Just because something can be explained with science it does not mean it fits today's world. That what I tried to say when I mentioned the female instinct that makes us want to be with males who can provide the most.


That female instinct you're referring to is hypergamy. And hypergamous women are attracted to the strong alpha male because he supposedly is the better hunter and can provide better, thus has better genes. She can let the beta male care for the offspring, but the alpha male turns her on sexually.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

NatashaYurino said:


> What I am trying to say is that althought we still have some urges we must learn to control them in order to preserve our relationships when have them. It's either that or stay single.
> 
> Just because something can be explained with science it does not mean it fits today's world. That what I tried to say when I mentioned the female instinct that makes us want to be with males who can provide the most.
> 
> ...


Our instincts (genetic programming) actually generate our emotions and mating tendencies. Individually we have difficulty making the connection between instincts and emotions because it happens unconsciously. Your argument that women are interested in money and resources out of greed and not out of instinct misses the point. Women are interested in money and resources because it's their instinct to find a man that can provide for them. In today's society its cash that makes that happen. I think the cold calculating gold diggers are acting on their instinct to survive in our modern jungle. 

I've come to the conclusion that its not natural to stay with one person yet I remain faithful and invested in my marriage. I do so because I expect my wife to do the same and I wish to keep my family intact. So yes I make an intellectual choice to not act on all my emotions or biological needs, but it's a choice that's made within the framework of today's society. The choice is made due to expectations and not what my body is telling me to do. I think the fact that women are now openly cheating at the same rate as men supports my conclusion. It's now becoming clear that their instincts have always driven them to seek out the fittest partner, but modern societal constraints have kept this desire underground.


----------



## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I still think that is a farce to say that men a prewired to cheat because it does not explian why woman cheat. 
We are sexual creatures for both reproductive reason and pleasure too. We have emotions and make mistakes. It is called being human and at some point the studies that pull back and try to explain things on a level of compairing us to all other creatures seem to ignore that there are other animals that mate for life as well. (we are not the only ones)

We are not dead once we have committed to a partner. We are attracted to others and usually the things we are attracted to are things our SO have but because we are emotional creatures that seek out pleasure we are also attracted to the new, something different feeling.

Hard wired to cheat, it will take a lot more to sale me on that idea because females cheat too and sometimes it has nothing to do with reproducing and everything to do with pleasure and the way it makes us feel. I would buy a study on our selfish behavior surrounding the cheating before I buy the hardwired to cheat crap.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Why not. As long as you grant me that women are prewired to be nagging b^tches. Feel better now?


----------



## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Since statistics show that not many less women cheat than men, what is the excuse for women that cheat?


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Since statistics show that not many less women cheat than men, what is the excuse for women that cheat?


:iagree: I know right!

That's what I meant in my previous posts. Regardless of any leftover instincts we may have, people (men and women) cheat because they make a choice to do so. Not because they are doomed to do so by their own nature. Afterall if every male was doomed to be unfaithful, how come not every man cheats, even though many of them have countless chances? And if females have no instinct of going after more than one partner, then how come do some many women cheat?


----------



## msL (Feb 20, 2012)

I have my own theory, both men and women cheat, you hear about the men doing it more for two reasons, the pre wired nature of a man and I honestly think, they (men) are caught more often than the women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

You know, I believe that we are prewired to procreate; it's how every species survives. How we go about that is a decision. I have a sense of honor. I would rather fall on my sword than to dishonor myself by committing infidelity. I have a terrier who is prewired to chase squirrels. He doesn't do so unless I tell him "OK". I think if a dog can control himself, we who pride ourselves in higher brain development should also be able to do that.


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I believe that everyone is wired to cheat given the rightor wrong circumstances male or female


----------



## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Yet another book based on laughable research that will be popular, because it makes men look stupid, makes women look superior, and at the same time provides men with excuses for bad behaviour. Winning combination.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

river rat said:


> You know, I believe that we are prewired to procreate; it's how every species survives. How we go about that is a decision. I have a sense of honor. I would rather fall on my sword than to dishonor myself by committing infidelity. I have a terrier who is prewired to chase squirrels. He doesn't do so unless I tell him "OK". I think if a dog can control himself, we who pride ourselves in higher brain development should also be able to do that.


I could not have said it any better!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Weren't men and women very promiscuous and sexually active and expiremental in the 60s and this changed due to STDs like Aids ?

In other words, you don't have to go back to cavemen times to get evidence that men and women are prewired to cheat.

Today, monogamous relationships seem particularly like a good idea when you think about dangers of STDs like Aids

Frequency of cheating appears up but is it really ?


----------



## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Why not. As long as you grant me that women are prewired to be nagging b^tches. Feel better now?


yet men seem to be pre wired a$$holes too so the prewired nagging b^tches match the prewired a$$ holes. 

That is a different study I believe.


----------



## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

Evolutionarily speaking, I believe men are pre-wired to have sex with as many women as they can in order to ensure an investment of many offspring being placed into the gene pool. 

Women are also pre-wired but instead of the many offspring route, we are more likely to invest in just one offspring to make sure we make our contribution to the gene pool.

That, however, does not mean in anyway that men are pre-wired to cheat or that women are pre-wired not to cheat.

Cheating, as many have so rightfully pointed out, is the deliberate action of betraying one's word and their partner's trust. I am not sure this fits in with evolutionary thinking of any sort.

Who do you think invented monogamy? Not women. Interesting, no?


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

Looking to heal said:


> Weren't men and women very promiscuous and sexually active and expiremental in the 60s and this changed due to STDs like Aids ?
> 
> In other words, you don't have to go back to cavemen times to get evidence that men and women are prewired to cheat.
> 
> ...


I believe that in todays's world cheating rates have increased, due to the attention most forms of media place on infidelity. Wether by advertising it and reporting on famous people cheating. 

We get messages from movies and tv that cheating is the greatest adventure one can have in life, and that if you are happy in your marriage/steady relationship you are living a boring life and you are missing out what everybody else in enjoying every day. Cheating all of the sudden begins to look pretty normal and harmless.

For instance, a while ago we had a tv commercial here in Brazil where the girl meets her date outside her apartment and she is wearing flipflops (they are polular in Brazil) and the guy gets upset, because he thinks they (the sandals) do not fit the place they are going to. The girls notices it and goes upstairs asking him for a minute so she can change. Then she comes down (still with the sandals) and at the same time another man arrives in his car. As the girl walks toward him she turns and says to the other guy, "There...I changed!" 

Now of course it was meant to be a cute joke about how much she loves her sandals above anything else. But in a subliminal manner it also portrays your loved as disposable(did I spell it right?).

Those little messages can and do affect the way we see life and we try and mimic what was displayed to us. We get the same messages from friends who are free to go out with several people at the same time, because they are not in a steady relationship. We start to envy them and soon after that we begin to see faults with our SO/relationships they may not even have. Only to excuse our desire to find someone else.

So IMO I believe the rates of infidelity have increased now-a-days because it is portayed as normal and even desireable.

What made us pretty happy and satisfied up until yesterday, now does not seem enough anymore. So more and more people buy the idea that an affair/ONS will make them happier.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Kurosity said:


> yet men seem to be pre wired a$$holes too so the prewired nagging b^tches match the prewired a$$ holes.
> 
> That is a different study I believe.


You drive like sh^t and can't even pretend to parallel park.


----------



## ChristopherConnor29 (Feb 20, 2012)

I believe another reason why females aren't that naturally monogamous either, is there role in helping perpetuate the species.

Males we trusted with contributing with numbers.

But females also have an important role: Selecting and Adding variety!

Pictute this scenario: 1 male and 20 females. We can see why nature built in him the drive to copulate all 20. It's a faster way to produce 20 offsprings rather than trying to achieve the same number with 1 felmale only.

But what happens next???

All twenty offsprings face one problem if they try and copulate with one another, after all they are related to each other because of their common father.

That's why I believe that females were also wired to look leave the group and copulate with other males in order to introduce "new blood" to her own family. 

Let's suppose she had 1 male and the other females had 19 females. Her son cannot afford to mix his genes with his sisters's, at one point inbreeding would become so bad it could even result in sterilization. That would be a dead-end to their genes and all efforts would be lost.

However if ate least one the females searches for a new male and has at least 1 male offspring with him, she can introduce new blood to her group. After all her son would have at the very least 18 females who are not related to him to copulate with.

Plus females are built to search for a male with the best genes, but it's not like there's only one of those around. Hence why males (even man) are always competing with each other. 

So in theory she must copulate with many males with great genes. That way not only she has offsprings with the best genes but she also has a collection which combines the very best genes around.

My opinion. 

PS: I watch a lot of documentaries about wild life so...


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

ChristopherConnor29 said:


> I believe another reason why females aren't that naturally monogamous either, is there role in helping perpetuate the species.
> 
> Males we trusted with contributing with numbers.
> 
> ...


So in theory, men are polygamous while women are hypergamous? Hence women's attraction for the "bad boys" because they are perceived as alpha males with better genes? Or like why Lois Lane is attracted to Superman but not Clark Kent? 

But then, that makes me pre-wired to kill my male rivals in order to protect my offspring right? So if I walk in on my WW f*cking some other dude, then I'm justified in blasting him, you know, because it's my instinct.


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Going back to instinct, my Boston terrier wants to kill the pit bull up the street, because he's wired to do it. But I love him, so I won't let him do it, because of the obvious consequences. He loves and respects me, so he listens to me. Thousands, if not more, years of living together as humans and dogs has taught us that we cannot simply obey our instincts. It's called socialization.


----------



## AE86freak (Feb 24, 2012)

Although I don't think about me cheating, after only two years of being married, I often find my self in various situations or instances that make me think "hummm, this is why men cheat on their wives".
A lot of the reasons are not even her fault and are based on the selfish desire to want pleasure without doing "work" to make sure the other person is satisfied.


----------



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

AE86freak said:


> Although I don't think about me cheating, after only two years of being married, I often find my self in various situations or instances that make me think "hummm, this is why men cheat on their wives".
> A lot of the reasons are not even her fault and are based on the selfish desire to want pleasure without doing "work" to make sure the other person is satisfied.


As a woman I have also found myself in situations where I understood a little bit why some people give in to temptation. Women also have desires and wants that makes us vunerable at times. I am in no way justifying female infidelity, but at times I find it disheartening that some men seem to believe that only they are attracted to variety and novelty.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

In twenty years of marriage, it never occurred to me to cheat on my ex wife. One reason for this is that I wouldn't be able to pull it off because I'm not a good liar and you just can't be successful in cheating if you can't pull off a succession of lies.
The other reason is that I can't stand to be around liars or even around people who appear to be lying when they can't look at you while speaking to you.
Now that I'm on my own, it's doubtful that I will ever have an opportunity to cheat since I don't plan to have any more long term relationships.


----------



## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Cheating has very little to do with what sex the person is, and a whole lot to do with their morals, ethics and psychology.


----------



## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Problem with the idea of saying that males are pre-wired to cheat is just too overly simplistic. I understand in my professional life what this "chump" is trying to assume, but there are other factors in our species that one could counter the argument.

Mainly we are a tribal species and as a tribal species we evolved to feel secure within our tribe and that the tribe comes with rules. Break the rules, and you are ex-communicated from the tribe. So while sex, hunger and thirst are paramount in the limbic module of our brain, our neo-cortex has the ability to override urges that may break the tribal rules so that we remain within the tribe. Get ex-communicated from the tribe and sex, food and water are pretty much not going to be in the picture.

This book is BS.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes, humans are defined by things that are unnatural.

Cars, planes, segways, air conditioning. Pesticides. Burgers that don't rot for 8 months. Working 9-5. Cable TV. Law enforcement. Heck, marriage!

The attempts to reduce human behavior to Pavlovian reflexes are really pathetic.


----------



## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

I guess men cheat by themselves... Or with each other!

Thing is, if you take a look at this forum it is very often that a cheater is cheating with cheater. Often two married people destroying two marriages..


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I personaly think women cheat as often and probley more than men.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Again, the "all men" generalization. :scratchhead:

We all have primal instincts but, for the benefit of society, have evolved to not act on them. Take the flight or fight instinct; we have learned it isn't a good idea to pick up a club and bludgeon someone into the ground every time we feel threatened. It's the same with many other instincts, and it amuses me when authors like this go back to the cave to justify negative behaviour.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

"Over the years women have grown to accept the fact that men are born to cheat."

Ha ha....now that's a good one.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Guess my wiring is all screwed up then.
> 
> Either that or the "professor" doesn't know s*** from apple butter.


Most professors I've met and that have instructed me don't know their head from their.....well you know.


----------



## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I personaly think women cheat as often and probley more than men.


Statistics are all over the board, depending on how you parse out the survey and how those taking the survey themselves interpret their meaning of cheating. Humans like to justify their actions.

Best stats put it at:
Males 23%
Females 19%

Probably much higher, but needless to say, I think your assumptions are correct, that those numbers are within a margin of error to assume that this is not just a pre-wired mechanism exclusive to males. So again, this book is BS on various grounds.


----------



## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Most professors I've met and that have instructed me don't know their head from their.....well you know.


Given my profession, I take exception to this comment. Professors are like the general population. We are extremely varied in our independent thoughts. Don't assume that all professors draw from the same trough of data and come to the same conclusions.


----------

