# Women...tell me what you think?



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

My wife of 10 yrs recently asked for space due to several years of emotional neglect. For the past week and 1/2, I have failed to give her the space she's asked for mostly due the discovery that she was on a dating website and i wanted to continue to try. She told me the she wasn't looking for love, just to have a good time, one of the things our marriage lacked. I went a little far by browsing through her cell phone and finding explicit photos she'd traded with another individual, a few texts from a guy describing some hot phone sex, and some extended length phone conversations with another gentleman. Understand that this is extremely out of character for her. The fact that she's had these exchanges with several men and not one exclusively tells me that she's acting out due to her anger and hurt that had developed over the years. I do believe that she has not had sex with anyone but she's definitely playing with fire. My wife, after I confronted her, stated that we should just end it saying that i've pushed her into a corner asking for a decision. My only request was that she stay of the website, but she wouldn't because she was enjoying herself. I am convinced that she still loves me because she told another family member, after i confronted her, that she's concerned about my health, because i hadn't eaten well for the last week or so. She also says that she still wants me to be apart of family gatherings like Thanksgiving and Christmas. To me, these are not the statements of someone who no longer cares. I told her that I have decided to move out to give her the space that she needs. While she still says that she's still leaning towards her statement concerning divorce, i did not feel that it was her true thought by her body language and all. I told her that I'm going to take this time away to make sure that I get myself together and deal with my issues and shortcomings while hoping for the best. Ladies, am i grasping at straws by thinking that I still have a chance?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I think you still have a chance, if some drastic changes are made. If you give in to her demands, it is going to distance you even more. She is a cheater whether it be EA or PA. Her behavior is quite typical--she wants to have her cake and eat it too. Plus she seems to be shifting blame to you. By moving out and giving her space, it gives her even more freedom. I think you should stay put.

Have you tried counseling? How about reading marriage and self-help books? Everyone on this forum has great book recommendations. My favorite is "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. The book will give you great insight as to what is really going on with you wife. And you'll see ways to connect with her again. Furthermore, it is helpful even while she is in that "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" mode.

Hope things change for the better.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

i've tried to do a lot of things from books already. I've tried to talk and reason with her, but she's so angry that none of it helps right now. She's always put all the blame on me so that's not anything new. I'm hoping that during the separation, she will seek counsel that will ultimately convince her that i am not totally responsible for all our problems.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

marksaysay said:


> i I've tried to talk and reason with her, but she's so angry that none of it helps right now.


When a spouse is in this "fog" you would be better off to talk to a wall. I know--I've been there. That's why I suggested "The Five Love Languages". It's more about actions than words.

You may find the following web site helpful: Just Found Out!. At the very least your wife is having an EA. Her behavior is typical. These folks participate in this forum also.


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## Idontknownow (Sep 30, 2010)

I don't think your grasping at straws. My husband just came to the realization he has been emotionally neglecting me for years. I don't know what he's gonna do about it or if he's going to wait to get back from this deployment to do something about it. Like your wife I have often thought of going online for attention but so far haven't done it.

I do still love my husband and care. Some times it's really hard to believe there will be any kind of change after years of proof and I don't know about her but I feel deep scars from not feeling worth much. We're planning on counseling. Is she open to that? That may be away to maintain a dialogue while still giving her physical space.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

My wife and I had an at length discussion today which started by her saying that she'd decided to move forward with the divorce. After talking more, she stated that because she's had so little fun with me over the last few years, she wanted to go out and hang out with other people. She said it's not about sex or making another commitment, she just wanted to have fun and I really believe her because it took me awhile before we had sex. She said she still had love for me, she wasn't in love with me. I asked her why she fell in love with me before, she said because I was fun and she liked being with me. I told her that I could be him again if she gave me a chance. We then agreed that we would not divorce but separate for awhile. She also stated that while she would still like to hang out with other guys, I could have opportunities to prove I could be the man she fell in love with. While I would rather she not go out with other guys, I believe as long as I show her that I can and will change, the other guys she chooses to hang out with will not sufficiently fill the void. It's now my time to prove to her. The time apart to will give her a chance to deal with some of the hurt I've caused. I believe that we'll be alright but it's up to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

How do you plan on proving her ???


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Yep, I've been there too. This is the part where you're told you must win her back.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Dale&Alex said:


> How do you plan on proving her ???


She told me that while she would like to still hang out with other people, we could also make dates with each other. These dates that we will have will be my chance to show her that I can have fun again and that I want to do so with her. My plan is not to take her to the movies where we won't have much time for interaction but to go to comedy clubs, to do many of the things I know she's been wanting to do. I believe, that as Christians, God put us together and that he will not allow her gain fulfillment apart from the man he gave to her. She also told me that she'd still like for me to be there at her family's gatherings, so I know all love is not lost. I still have a chance and I WILL win my wife back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

hi MArk... apologize that i am not a woman to answer.

are you sure to let her hang out wiith guys. don't you mind if she go too far while hang out with guys.

please consider this


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

lobokies said:


> hi MArk...
> 
> are you sure to let her hang out wiith guys. don't you mind if she go too far while hang out with guys.
> 
> please consider this


I know that it sounds like I'm conceding to too much but I know her. She made me wait several months before I could be intimate with her so I know she's not that kind of person. She may do the do with someone else, but while I hope and pray she doesn't, I know that she still has love for me and that she's giving me a chance to reconnect with her. At this point, I'll pray that she doesn't find the enjoyment in other guys that she thinks she will and I will woo her like the beginning. It's what I have to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Yep, I've been there too. This is the part where you're told you must win her back.


Were you adamant about seeing other people? She tells me that she's ok with us dating to see if it's possible to find the love that we once had, and that i know is still there, but everyone is telling me that i should not accept the fact that she wants to "hang out" with other people. I so truely believe that a God-ordained marriage cannot be broken. While it might go through an extreme obstacle, it cannot be broken. Should i not accept this and move on or what should i do? I am so torn...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

marksaysay said:


> Were you adamant about seeing other people? She tells me that she's ok with us dating to see if it's possible to find the love that we once had, and that i know is still there, but everyone is telling me that i should not accept the fact that she wants to "hang out" with other people. I so truely believe that a God-ordained marriage cannot be broken. While it might go through an extreme obstacle, it cannot be broken. Should i not accept this and move on or what should i do? I am so torn...


No. I went through all of this on the other side--same as what you are currently going through. My estranged husband was a serial cheater and a big party goer.

I'm also a Christian, so I'll put in my 2 cents on the God/marriage part of your posts. Would God approve of what your wife is currently doing? I think not. Your wife is in that infamous "fog" that goes along with infidelity. She isn't exactly following the Christian script now. Instead she is partaking in the Devils's workshop. Sure you should have faith and continue to hope she will find her way back to God. And continue to pray for her and your marriage. But..... don't let that make you live in a world of denial. Denial has no place when dealing with a cheater. 

I really wish you and your wife the best.


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> She told me that while she would like to still hang out with other people, we could also make dates with each other. These dates that we will have will be my chance to show her that I can have fun again and that I want to do so with her. My plan is not to take her to the movies where we won't have much time for interaction but to go to comedy clubs, to do many of the things I know she's been wanting to do. I believe, that as Christians, God put us together and that he will not allow her gain fulfillment apart from the man he gave to her. She also told me that she'd still like for me to be there at her family's gatherings, so I know all love is not lost. I still have a chance and I WILL win my wife back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You found she has joined a dating site , having phone sex , trading photos , so are you sure she hasn't gone to the next level ?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

bestplayer said:


> You found she has joined a dating site , having phone sex , trading photos , so are you sure she hasn't gone to the next level ?


No, I am not sure. I definately have my doubts. What I do believe is that she still loves me but I am now at the point where I want to stand up and let her know that I cannot and will not accept this. I want to work it out with her but it is going to be on my terms and not hers. Do I think this phase will pass? I do. But now I feel that I've got to put her hands to the fire and put my foot down.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> No, I am not sure. I definately have my doubts. What I do believe is that she still loves me but I am now at the point where I want to stand up and let her know that I cannot and will not accept this. I want to work it out with her but it is going to be on my terms and not hers. Do I think this phase will pass? I do. But now I feel that I've got to put her hands to the fire and put my foot down.


I told my wife last night that I won't accept and wanted her to stop her activity. She said she didn't want to and that she was done trying in our relationship and that she would move forward with the divorce process. I said ok. While I am still willing to fight, I also have to keep my dignity. We may at some point be able to work it out. We may not. I'm now ok with either of the outcomes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She is telling you that she will still date you, to get you to go along with the separation. As soon as you move out, she's going to file for divorce. That's what people do - lie to you to get you to go along.

You cannot fix your marriage from a separate home. Tell her that you want to save your marriage, that YOU are not abandoning it, and if she wants to move out, she is free to, but you are staying in your home. Lovingly, of course.

Get the book His Needs Her Needs. Ask her to read it with you. Also get the book Surviving An Affair - it will teach you that everything she is saying now is the result of an affair. She may be playing with more than one guy, but that's still an affair. Ask her to stop one more time; if she refuses, find one important person in her life and tell that person what she's doing - ask them to talk to her. If that doesn't work, tell her parents, siblings, and best friends what she's doing and ask them for help. Don't expect them to actually help - most won't - but do expect her to think twice about what she is doing, once she knows that everyone important knows she's doing it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Does a woman ever get over her resentment? She actually filed the divorce papers yesterday. She said that I didnt listen to her about needing space and that I forced her to make the decision. She didn't like my harping on her deciding to explore what else is out there. I felt all along she had already made up her mind. Was I wrong for trying? Is ther any hope at reconciliation or is she really done? My thought is the latter....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Many people remarry after divorce. Is she really is the 'one' for you, consider the next year a 'work year' - you focus on learning where you went wrong, spend a lot of time thinking about it and going to counseling to learn about yourself and improve yourself, DO NOT DATE anyone, and steadily show her how you are changing.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Many people remarry after divorce. Is she really is the 'one' for you, consider the next year a 'work year' - you focus on learning where you went wrong, spend a lot of time thinking about it and going to counseling to learn about yourself and improve yourself, DO NOT DATE anyone, and steadily show her how you are changing.


That's my plan. It is going to be quite difficult for a while because we agreed to remain at the same church. She grew up there and I became very active in several ministries there that I don't want to give up. We also are a part of a bowling league together, which neither of us want to give up. I may have to make a concession in one of these areas. I believe that if God meant for is to be together, we will be. I don't plan on dating because I don't want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, I think it's great that you have those ways to keep in touch with her! She can watch you, but not necessarily participate with you, and she should be able to notice the changes in you, assuming you really make them. We should marry our best friend, and if you can become her friend, she will feel safer considering you more than that.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Honestly, I think it's great that you have those ways to keep in touch with her! She can watch you, but not necessarily participate with you, and she should be able to notice the changes in you, assuming you really make them. We should marry our best friend, and if you can become her friend, she will feel safer considering you more than that.


I thought so, too, but while I don't think she would, I don't know if I could handle her bringing someone else to either of those places. I know I can't control what she does, it would make it extremely difficult. Something that was even harder was hearing our daughter, who stayed with me last night, say she wished I could stay with her and mommy. I just told her so do I but I can't do that right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All you can do is try to be the person she picks.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> This may not be the case at all but sometimes people rewrite marital history once they've already found someone else. This new person hasn't shared bills, or raising children, or any of life's obstacles that come with marriage. Everything is peaches and cream. Then there is comparison and every small weakness of yours becomes magnified.
> 
> Do not beat yourself up. We all have weaknesses. None of us are perfect. Our vows are for better or worse. If we were perfect there would certainly be no need to include the "worse". Don't give up on your end. Be the best man you can be and use this time to make necessary life changes. And since you're a man of faith, make those changes according to how God would have you to live. Then, the rest is up to her.


I'm not going to beat myself up. I just recognize my mistakes, something that is difficult for her to do. I'm not going to stop loving her. She's still my wife, atleast for a little while anyway. I think the passing involvement we'll have will be a blessing in more ways than one. It'll allow her the needed space but also give her the opportunity to see my changes and possibly remember why she fell in love with me. All hope is not gone.

I actually think that she is trying to convince herself that she doesn't love me anymore. When all of this first developed a couple of weeks ago, she said it was because of 6 years of neglect. She then raised it to 7 years. Then today, as she was packing some of her things, she said it was 8 or 9 years. Which one is it?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Today has been a much better day. I'm still not wanting to divorce my mate, but I realize that I'm, more than likely the source of her pain, forcing herself to become more and more distant. I will begin implementing the 180 degree Divorce Buster idea from Marriage Builders and see how it goes. We bowl on the same team tonight. I want it to work, but I understand that it may or may not. But it will help me feel better about myself and the future. I will continue to stay in prayer.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

The last day or so has been filled with many ups and downs. I had the feeling that I was beginning to get a handle on my emotions and start the healing process by accepting it might very well be over. I started the 180 degree Divorce Buster plan from Marriage Builders yesterday and felt that it might have had an affect on her. The whole night, we were cordial but not much was really said other than those things concerning our daughter. She texted the entire time we were bowling which i pretty much ignored. She stayed after for a few drinks and I stayed to hang out and play pool not knowing that she we still be there. I carried on as if nothing was going on and enjoyed my evening. I even caught her peering over at me a few times. She left before I did so I continued for a while longer. On the way home, I saw her car at a bar near our house and figured that she'd probably met up with one the guys she says she just want to "hang out" with. Seeing that sent my mind through a ton of different emotions. Did the 180 degree plan even affect her at all? Am I trying to get back a woman who has made her mind up? She's still on the dating website doing all kinds of things. I should probably just move on but that easier said than done. 

She, a few minutes ago, came to the house to pick up something for our daughter and made a statement about the fact that I'd been smoking in the house. We didn't smoke in here when she was here, so she didn't like that saying that our daughter still has to come over here. This is true so i'll air the house out and do something different. Or should I? She doesn't live here anymore and right now this is my house. I love her still so deeply and I want things to work out, but I know that only time will tell, so I will continue to work on me and just hope for the best.


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## aminaive (Oct 24, 2010)

_"she stated that because she's had so little fun with me over the last few years, she wanted to go out and hang out with other people. She said it's not about sex or making another commitment, she just wanted to have fun..."_

Perhaps I'm old fashioned or, just a realist. I don't understand...when I chose to marry I knew that I was making a committment to be with, work with, fight with and love with this one man. Other than domestic violence, addiction (refusing to get help) or, complete lack of respect - I'm committed. It's amazing how some can justify why they "just don't want to do this anymore, it's not like it was" yada, yada. Of course it isn't like it was because, that was then and this is now. I used to really get into playing with Barbies a long (long) time ago and - we evolve and, hopefully, we evolve together. A guy once told me, after his marriage of 20+ years ended that, he wanted frosting! He deserved frosting! Ok, I like (really like!) frosting as much as the next person but I asked him, what are you going to do when the frosting is gone??? I mean, after the frosting is gone, you're gonna be stuck with a lot of cake afterward so, you better love the cake more than the frosting! We are humans and we don't always get it right but, we all deserve respect - I just get so tired of hearing all the excuses of why a married person just - doesn't want to do this anymore. Life is short, I agree and - we all deserve happines but beware... your emotions can sometimes lie to you and when you figure out the lie and realize that what you had was really worth holding on to and it's gone...then what?? Best of luck everyone and, God Bless us all. I'm going to try really hard to start caring about me - I know I'll be there for me when it comes down to it! ha....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, my only comment is going to be about the smoking, cos I'm a firm believer in not putting kids anywhere near it. So...don't. If you smoke, odds are good your kids will, too. Can't you stop...for them?

Ok, one more comment - I do think the 180 is making a difference. Keep it up. Show her you WILL move on.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I saw the part about the smoking too. Perhaps you can stop smoking as part of your "changes". I'll bet your wife will definitely take note of that positive change.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

827Aug said:


> I saw the part about the smoking too. Perhaps you can stop smoking as part of your "changes". I'll bet your wife will definitely take note of that positive change.


That's actually what I was thinking, too. I think I will. It will probably benefit me the most but today she said if you didn't change in 8 years (at first it was 6), you can't change in 3 weeks. She doesn't understand that change does not have to take years. Once you've experience something painful enough, you can change in an instant. You still, though, have to nurture any new behavior. Yesterday, I picked up Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner-Davis. It's quite similar to the 180. Once I finish it, I'll implement it and hope for the best. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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