# Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation



## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Are there any other BS's here in CWI who are also trying reconciliation, who would like to share some of their thoughts/feelings/frustrations? 

Reconciliation after infidelity is one of the most difficult things that I've tried to do. But, I'm also comfortable (most of the time) that I've made the right decision to try. I guess I'm asking whether anyone else might like to share any part of their journey? The intention would be to be open about what we're going through, so that we don't feel quite so alone. 

*So, to introduce myself*
I joined TAM last year, after finding out about my husband's second affair (the first happened more than 10 years ago, and was rugswept by both of us). I have been "lucky" in that I found out about both affairs when they were already over, so I never dealt with an unrepentant WS. I suspect that I would not handle this well. (I still feel such a sense of unreality when I type/write the words "my husband's affair".) Whilst his more recent affair did get physical, as well as emotional, he has not been sexually unfaithful to me. I found the advice that I got here at CWI to be very useful in that it spurred me on to DO something, rather than just wallow in misery and angst. My husband had a polygraph to confirm his claim that he had not had sex with his AP. We're several months of counselling in (both individual and marriage), and I am hopeful that our marriage will survive this.

*Why I chose reconciliation over divorce*
We have two, youngish children and a large number of practical considerations that have weighted things in favour of trying reconciliation. But the dominant factor is that I love my husband (and believe that he loves me), however imperfectly that might be. My husband was genuinely remorseful and also wanted to try to save our marriage and took action to do so. For me, my marriage without the affair in it, is a good one. I did seriously consider divorce. 

*My current biggest concerns *
For a long while, I battled to understand how my husband could say that he loved me (even during the affair) and still seek out another woman. I have come to understand that the feelings that we have for each other are incredibly complex - that love, resentment, pride, pain are all part of the soup that I feel when I think of him. And that he feels a similar soup in return. I am very much of the "love is a decision" school, and he is a far more romantic soul. I think that this was one of the greatest weaknesses of our relationship - I hadn't realised how much he interpreted this as the apparent absence of romantic love on my part. 

It is still difficult to reconcile my husband (as a hands-on father with a strong sense of duty and responsibility) with a man who could behave the way he did. I think that I have largely forgiven him for his actions, but the reality of learning to trust him again is challenging. I don't think he is having an affair now, but I still sometimes track him via his phone and emails/messages etc. The need to do this has shrunk a lot, but I think that it will be with me for some time to come. I still get triggers from some of the oddest things (I thought of starting a thread titled "Your strangest trigger").

On the plus side, my husband and I are far more honest with one another than we have ever been before. Because the stakes are very high, he is trying very hard to reach out to me. In the past, I would have said that I drove the more emotional aspects of our intimacy. Now, this comes from both of us. The increased closeness can be very uncomfortable and we have been having a lot of painful discussions. But now I feel apart from him when we haven't had an intimate conversation in more than a couple of days. And I think that is a good thing.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> I joined TAM last year, after finding out about my husband's second affair (the first happened more than 10 years ago, and was rugswept by both of us). I have been "lucky" in that I found out about both affairs when they were already over


Your husband cheated on you with at least 2 different women (that you know of), over a 10+ year period. That's a really bad form of serial cheating- it's the type that just doesn't go away. Did he come clean on his own or did you find evidence and confronted him? Because if it was the latter, it's bad. Really bad. 



Mizzbak said:


> My husband had a polygraph to confirm his claim that he had not had sex with his AP.


You say he had a poly to confirm his statements..polygraphs are notoriously unreliable yet you don't say anything about doubting the results.



Mizzbak said:


> For a long while, I battled to understand how my husband could say that he loved me (even during the affair) and still seek out another woman. I have come to understand that the feelings that we have for each other are incredibly complex


He cheated on you at least twice over the course of a decade or longer with at least two different women, but you say that "doesn't mean he doesn't love you"- because it's a "complex sort of love" that he has, which results in him cheating on you multiple times over a decade or longer.

Who needs that sort of complexity? I sure don't.



Mizzbak said:


> On the plus side, my husband and I are far more honest with one another than we have ever been before.


Well considering how low the bar was before, it's not hard to improve on it.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@stixx - thank you for your response. I appreciate that you took the time to engage with me. 

I'd like to make it clear that, for me, this thread is not about defending my choice to reconcile. I am sharing some of the challenges that I have and am facing in this process, because I hope that others in a similar situation may find it helpful and also might choose to share experiences that I might find helpful. 

May I ask whether you have experienced infidelity personally? And whether you and your spouse have always been uncompromisingly honest and forthright with one another? In my experience, some lies are an integral part of human interaction; and most especially of marriage. This would not be the case in an ideal world, of course. 

(I will try to briefly address your questions here, but if you would like to have a more extended discussion around any of these issues, then please feel free to head over to my original thread for that.) 
My husband's first affair was an online relationship that comprised 7 email exchanges after we were married. By the time I found them, I had had our first child and he had not communicated with her for more than a year. I found them hurtful because they were initially relatively sentimental/romantic (although he did write about being happy with his choice of me as his wife) and because he had misled me about the extent of their relationship before we got married, and continued intermittent electronic contact with her during our engagement and early months of our marriage. I found out hints of the second affair from the OW's husband, but my husband came clean about the far more extensive details on his own. I believe that he did this with a reasonable expectation of getting away with me knowing a far, far milder version of the truth. 

I discuss my feelings about the polygraph on my initial thread, but in short, I saw it as further, rather than sole, evidence of him telling the truth about the nature of his relationship. 

As to the "complex feelings" point - there is a quote from a book by Frank Pittman that I have referenced here on TAM before, which answers this point more effectively than I can. (And I found it again!)


> Myth #3. Affairs prove that love has gone from the marriage.
> 
> The reasons for affairs are rich and varied. Most of the reasons have to do with the ego state of the person having the affair rather than the person against whom the infidelity is being committed. ...
> 
> ...


And finally - perhaps some people get to have simple, uncomplicated lives. Both sadly and happily for me, I do not appear to be one of them.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> You used the word support, but the thing is lots of us on here think telling you to get the hell away from a serial cheater is the best support we can give you. I think you would do better to post this on SI. They are much more inclined over there to encourage you to live out the rest of your life with your abuser.


So says ANOTHER poster that's never experienced infidelity yet posting telling betrayed spouses "to get the hell away from a serial cheater" while hypocritically continuing to love and maintain a relationship with his very own cheating father.

"TRYING" to reconcile is the best way to either figure out whether you should actually get divorced or not. MOST betrayed spouses are dead set on TRYING anyway so it's much better to meet them where they are at and get them to TAKE ACTIONS {versus rugsweeping} to insure if they do go down the path reconciliation {as so many successfully do} they do it the right way and in so doing, if the wayward spouse proves unable or unwilling to walk such path, to THEN, actually recognize divorce as the best and only option in that particular situation.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

@Mizzbak Hope you find the support you need. If you haven't already,please have a look at this thread... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html It's older and quite long with a mix of posters with lots of problems faced,suggestions/feedback etc. Some of the posters may still be around,I'm not sure. @EI still posts here on occasion and maybe if she sees this,she will comment.

You'll obviously have some naysayers,but it's your life and marriage,so your decision. I wish you well.


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You used the word support, but the thing is lots of us on here think telling you to get the hell away from a serial cheater is the best support we can give you. I think you would do better to post this on SI. They are much more inclined over there to encourage you to live out the rest of your life with your abuser.


And yet the OP has clearly stated that the thread is for supporting *reconciliation*. Obviously you've been very vocal about your views, why jump on a thread for supporting reconciliation?! :scratchhead:
I'm sure (I know) you've had many times to express yourself to the OP (and others) here 😐

Anyways, I am still on the fence, I cannot decide whether I want to divorce or reconcile and I keep looking for good arguments for divorce *OR* for reconciliation. I find that on TAM divorce seems to be the popular recommendation to betrayed spouses, and I refuse any christian based reasoning for reconciliation (even tho we're both christian's)

I truly hate the reasoning that 'oh ya'll should stay together because of Jesus :smthumbup:' 😕 I mean the wayward spouses weren't thinking about Jesus........


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Mizzbak said:


> I found out hints of the second affair from the OW's husband, but my husband came clean about the far more extensive details on his own. I believe that he did this with a reasonable expectation of getting away with me knowing a far, far milder version of the truth.


This is why the BS is supposed to expose the affair as one of the best ways to help break up an affair. It would be neat if the OW's husband got advice from here. If he didn't find out about his cheating wife, then Mizzbak would not have known about this current affair. With her husband saying he wanted back... Follows the typical actions of cheating men.

Makes me think that when the stats say that most affairs are never caught... It's mostly men who get away with it while the cheating women get emotional with their extramarital sex which spills into their own marriage.

Your husband still came clean when he got busted by someone else. I too doubt he's only cheated with this one woman recently.

R is a challenge... Almost a year into mine... I know I have a ways to go.


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Jesus specifically says you can divorce a cheater. And in Jesus' time adultery was punished by stoning.


True statement, LOL. But it's still not a view supporting reconciliation 😕😐


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

It wasn't always like this. Good grief. TAM has a reconciliation forum that got great replies as well as this place if the person said that's what they wanted! But it's a ghost town now. She wanted like minded reconcilers like herself to post. Nobody should be chased away to si, whatever that is.

If this isn't for you, move along. Don't argue the same things over and over! Open your own thread for debate! She wants support!



OP, I wasn't here when my first marriage went south. I left, didn't look back. Doesn't mean I don't think reconciliation doesn't work! In the real world it does all the time! I wish the best for you!


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> This is why I suggested SI. R seems to be the point of that site.


Not true ~~~ survival is their only "point" which basically encourages posters to DO NOTHING and just "survive infidelity".

It is NOT a reconciliation forum. Nobody actually recovers a loving wonderful marriage there that I've witnessed.

It was started by a wayward wife with the intent of soothing her own ears. 

If posters push reconciliation too hard, they get the hammer too, because they might make the divorced people there feel bad.

Glad to see some other reconciled posters coming back to oppose this reconciliation denial that's been going on. Some of it is just cyclical with some upset strong willed divorced posters coming back to "save" other guys/gals from going through what they endured believing the misplaced hope they had for their situations is a universal principle {which from their perspective, is understandable} but then there are the agenda posters that keep coming back again and again on multiple sites. SI and Loveshack don't put up with them for more than a couple of posts and so they're stuck whipping themselves into frenzies on CL {while denying she was a wayward wife herself in her first marriage} and a coming here again and again to try an convince newbies there is supposedly no such thing as reconciliation. 

The theory that reconciliation is a myth only takes ONE recovery to disprove {but it's nice when there are more around as long as you handle the blowback, constant psychoanalysis and insults trying to get you to leave}

BTW, I'm NOT pro-reconciliation at all costs. it's either repentance followed by a restoration PLUS {better than before marriage}~~ in time {give it a solid "try" of 3 to 12 months} or take your biblical option to divorce. If it's a short marriage and/or there are no kids, repentance better be real quick or divorce is generally my recommendation there too. Christians are called to forgive but we don't have to stay in the relationship if we don't choose to. 

Oh, and the stoning of WIVES {not husbands} and their paramours for adultery wasn't universally applied in Jewish law.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Depending on which study you read, 50% - 85% of marriages in which a spouse cheats (and the BS knows about it) recover from the infidelity. 

I know couples who have recovered their marriage after infidelity and are still together, and doing very well years later. 

IMHO, reconciliation is worth trying if both parties are willing to work on it.

I definitely would like to see more support for those who are working on reconciliation here on TAM.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Mizzbak said:


> Are there any other BS's here in CWI who are also trying reconciliation, who would like to share some of their thoughts/feelings/frustrations?
> 
> Reconciliation after infidelity is one of the most difficult things that I've tried to do. But, I'm also comfortable (most of the time) that I've made the right decision to try. I guess I'm asking whether anyone else might like to share any part of their journey? The intention would be to be open about what we're going through, so that we don't feel quite so alone.
> 
> ...


I was cheated on by my WW and I am still married. If I knew then what I know now I would have left but like you I have kids and probably the fear of divorce kept me there.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Also the scripture says stone both, not just wives.


"Both", there, generally refers to the wife and her paramour {the OM}.

Unlawful intercourse of a married man with an unmarried woman wasn't technically "adultery" under Jewish law so, no, unfaithful husband's were very rarely the subject to stoning. 

But the law's enforcement and rules differed greatly over the centuries and there were times and communities that were much more strict and other times where there was much more grace and the turning of a blind eye. Generally, young male paramours and wayward wives endured the breadth of these punishments.

Fortunately, the law has been fulfilled in Him and we are no longer subject to the punishments we ALL deserve. Accordingly, betrayed spouses MAY CHOOSE to live like Christ and offer forgiveness, grace and sanctification to their wholly repentant wayward spouse. 




sokillme said:


> I still say SI would give her more of the kind of advice that she is looking for. The best thing for OP about that site is there is no one like you or me on there. Neither you or I would be allowed on there. It's mostly just for pep talks and stuff or "Support for SO trying to R".


We really aren't in the same boat here. I present and offer a realistic hope here {a vital message to newbies posting anywhere} whereas you lie and deny the reality of hope. {still don't understand why a guy that hasn't personally experienced ended up here being the voice of hopelessness}. Encouragement and hugs on SI isn't hope and it isn't advice ~ it's just "surviving". Having divorced guys around that have actually experienced the loss offering practical assistance and advice, even if discouraging at times, is still REALISTIC. It's only the complete and intentionally deceiving denial of reality {that many/most couples stay together and a certain percentage of them actually end up having great marriages again, in time, especially if they do certain things that we should be encouraging them to do instead of debating whether they exist at all} that bothers me. 

Also, the number one most effective tool to bust up an affair and restore a marriage/family is exposure and, if Christian, effective church discipline. SI doesn't hold that view {all opinions are way too equal there} and on DB and LS you can't even suggest exposure. It's the single reason why those forums fail and any betrayed spouse remains much better off here or even on MB where exposure is nearly universally understood and promoted as step one in every situation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Warning: *

Please stop the threadjacks. 

This thread is entitled "Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation."

If there is any poster who has a problem with offering such support, then please step away from this thread.

If you want to start your own thread regarding how you feel that BS should only consider divorce and not reconciliation, then you can do that.

However, this thread, Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation, will be monitored and further action against threadjackers will be considered by the Moderation Team.

And for those who want religious debates, there's always the Religion section.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

I've probably said all this before, so apologies if it feels repetitive to anyone reading it. For me that biggest challenge in reconciling is TRUST. I can't even be sure I'm really "in reconciliation" until I figure this part out.

Trust not only in the logistical sense of "do I trust that she's not still cheating on me?" but also trust in the sense of "can I trust the words coming out of her mouth, that she's no longer lying to HERSELF?"

In both cases she is doing everything she can to help restore my trust in her. In the case of the former she has given me access to all devices, all my snooping checks out clean, she sends me photos when she's out of the house so I can confirm that she's where her phone says she is and also that she's with "safe" people: colleagues, etc.

I think those steps are incredibly important -- combined with frequent and genuine expressions of remorse -- and I would advise anyone who's not getting that to really question whether their cheater is really trying to fix things. Seems like the basic cost of entry -- full disclosure, tons of genuine remorse.

In the case of trusting her feelings it's a bit more difficult. While I now have understanding of how she worked herself up to the bizarre, selfish "self-medication" of the affair, I still have a hard time trusting that she's really sorting out her baggage. It still seems very possible that the love she says she feels for me is largely comprised of desperation to keep her children's family together. 

She's trying to show me it's real love and affection for me ... I just have no real way of knowing what the truth looks like in her anymore. Side piece of advice: therapists are not of much use in this regard -- if she could lie to me so effortlessly there's little chance that she couldn't just "work through" things while keeping parts of herself hidden (h*ll, she was in therapy for months during the affair and the therapist had no clue).

So trust remains the biggest issue. 

On an intellectual level I believe her in all of this, if only because she sees the writing on the wall. With our families and best friends now aware, and the divorce papers on deck, she knows she's one wrong step away from everything falling apart (and everyone would know she was to blame). So, second bit of advice -- exposure and tangible, imminent consequences (not just talk) are a valuable way to get a cheater to wake the f**k up. Doesn't seem fool-proof by any measure, but in the case of a remorseful spouse it seems useful.

But even with all that in hand, it's hard to know where I stand anymore. I feel very exposed a lot of the time. I see people who say they just accepted it and moved on to rebuilding their marriage and that just seems foreign to me. Just accept that it happened? I'm not sure how that's possible. Might as well accept that the house mysteriously caught on fire. Moving on with repairs and repainting seems illogical if you're not sure that the root cause has been resolved -- or whether you even want to keep living in a smoke-tainted home.

All in all it's incredibly confusing. I'm just trying to sort through all the feelings.

As for advice on how to deal with it: the best (only?) advice that seems appropriate is to give it time. Time for either the feelings of trust to heal, or time enough to know which option -- staying or leaving -- will ultimately be the healthiest. 

So I guess the TL;DR is "Healing the broken trust(s) is a tremendous mountain to climb. I don't know the solution, and the only advice that seems to fit is to just give it time and see if it gets better. In the meantime, they need to offer full access, tons of remorse, the affair needs to be exposed (within reason), and consequences need to be at hand -- perhaps best in the form of divorce papers ready to go."

So that's what I have to offer on reconciliation, for whatever it's worth.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak

I'm just over three years from my d-day, my journey incomplete, my healing not complete. Healing has been slow, but intentionally, as I want the best marriage possible. The work is hard, I've felt like tapping out many times, but the bigger picture requires you to keep moving forward. Many here believe I should have divorced, many times I about did, but that was not the best path for me. Reconciliation was my best path, and I knew if I chose it, the work would be incredibly difficult. 

I had difficulties with many aspects of healing myself and the marriage. So many nuances that arise to the surface that hadn't been thought of, until your journey brings you to that moment. The highs and lows are tremendous at times, and going backwards is so very easy to do. Strength you never knew you had nor could ever have is needed from both spouses. Empathy and compassion need to be present, remorse and communication are also of key importance by both spouses. Reconciliation is a gift, a gift that should be held as sacred, for infidelity killed the marriage you once had. 

In my journey I have been suicidal, I took action, and ultimately I failed at taking my own life. Infidelity can consume you to incredible depths, make you take actions you not once thought you were capable of. I entered into IC, we have done MC, and that has helped. Every betrayed spouse needs to learn quickly that they will be healthy with whatever they decide. You will survive.

My life has changed completely, I made many mistakes I wish I had a second chance with. We have worked through most of these and are beginning to find happiness both individually and together. The boys have been shielded as much as humanly possible, they are innocent, but will one day know what happened. My IC is taking lead on how and when to involve the boys. I will not have them live a lie. 

Trust is beginning to build in me with my wife. This has taken quite a bit of vulnerability on my part to allow the trust to build. My wife can do everything right, even be perfect, but my being vulnerable is how trust builds. Giving my heart to my wife to care for builds trust, and it's hard to give your heart again. 

Sometimes reading stories here can trigger you to your core. They can bring anger knowing how that betrayed spouse feels. Seeing that betrayed spouse as you once before, needing any kind of help just to make it through a day. That's how I was for a long time here, I still get angry, but it's cathartic to my healing to post. 

What would I tell a person who wishes to reconcile? Reconciliation must come from a position of strength. That you aren't a weak person for your choice, only you know the entire story. Live your life according to you, not what others think you should do. Find the best possible path for yourself to become a more healthy person. In order to care for others you need to be healthy yourself, get yourself healthy then care for the family and marriage. Understand that you becoming healthy can take some time, but then you will become stronger to move through reconciliation. 
@Mizzbak, I feel for you in your situation, it's not easy, but it can be done. Cheating twice will make your reconciliation more difficult, trust harder to build, and being vulnerable even more difficult. With that being said I still believe it can be done. Self reflect into yourself deeply, find your flaws and apply a solution. Approach each other differently and respectfully for positive communication. Teach yourself new coping skills, gather a toolbox for your new solutions, implement them and discard previous bad habits. Don't argue, get angry and lose control of your emotions. Instead communicate positively and when anger arises come back to the discussion at a later time. Have boundaries firmly in place, no questions about them. 

I wish you well and best of luck in your journey. God bless.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

DepressedDiva said:


> Anyways, I am still on the fence, I cannot decide whether I want to divorce or reconcile and I keep looking for good arguments for divorce *OR* for reconciliation.


DepressedDiva - 
A big leap forward in my thinking happened when I realised that deciding to try reconciling didn't mean that I was agreeing to reconcile. It just meant that I was willing to see whether I could. It may feel like semantics, but actually it's more like I agreed to a trial run. With the new software installed - because any marriage is irrevocably changed by infidelity. For me, it was about understanding what those changes were (and whether I can or want to live with them or even try to). 

As I said, a big part of this period has been uncomfortable levels of honesty between my husband and I. I've seen my husband's remorse come through very clearly since I've opened myself up and allowed him to see the extent of the damage his choices caused me. That degree of trust and vulnerability wouldn't have been possible if we weren't trying to reconcile. I think that even if this process is not successful in terms of saving our marriage, I would value this time because it is bringing about healing and forgiveness that would not have been possible if we were separated and without the hope that our marriage might survive. As circuitous as that logic sounds. When I hear and see a lot of the pain and anger that some posters here feel towards their ex's, I know that I don't want that to colour my relationship with my husband forever. This way, even if our marriage didn't survive, as last we would part in some harmony (feeling like an Abba song). 

If I'm bluntly honest, the best emotional argument for pursuing reconciliation was acknowledging that if I chose to walk away, then my husband was entitled to find someone else. That it would be morally OK for another woman to share his heart, his life and our children. So much not OK with that. Most days I feel good about where we are. Sometimes, especially when he has to travel on business or is very focused on work, I feel worried that this weird marriage bootcamp that we're in is not sustainable. But, mostly I feel good.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@TBT and @Seasong - thank you for your good wishes. 

TBT - I've been looking at the Reconciliation thread - I'm going to have to pace myself, but I have already had a lot of value from it. Thank you.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@TaDor, sometimes it terrifies me that my husband's recent affair only stopped because the OW forgot to delete a somewhat suspicious WhatsApp from my husband on her phone. If her husband hadn't found it (and he was looking), then they would have carried on. I firmly believe that they were only a few weeks away from having a full-blown sexual relationship. And I believe that that would have ended our marriage. (My husband takes sex very seriously.)

In retrospect, I could feel the shift in his behaviour towards me in those last 2-3 weeks of the affair. He said some hurtful things and he was ... well, just very different to how he normally is. Usually I stand up for myself, but I was very passive in response because I didn't understand where it was coming from, and I was still in a bit of a depression fog. I also didn't want to admit to myself that he could possibly be being unfaithful to me. In my mind, his first affair was always an anomaly - he knew the damage that it had caused, so he would never do it again. The reality I know now, is that I am married to a man who does have a serious character flaw when it comes to controlling his desire for adoration and attention. But because both of us now know it to be real, and acknowledge it as such, it is part of the fabric of our relationship. We discuss it openly. If I was married to a man who developed a drug, alcohol or gambling addiction, I suspect that I would respond similarly. Firstly he needs to (and is) work significantly on his self-awareness in this area; and secondly we have agreed on boundaries that allow me to feel that I might trust him in the future. It isn't about blame exactly, but rather about acknowledgement and then management. Just like my anger issues or my ADHD and depression diagnoses have an impact on our marriage ... and our children and families, so does this aspect of his character. 

Finally- as to whether he had any other affairs. At my request, the polygraph examiner asked my husband about this and was satisfied that he answered truthfully when he answered negatively. I may have been oblivious to the first affair, but I did know about the second. Well before it got so dangerous. I just didn't want to admit it to myself. So that is different going forward. 

This post has been somewhat depressing to write. Mostly because I can see how it documents how my naive and romantic dream of love and how marriage works has died. But I do believe that what my husband and I are working towards now is a far more real and robust version of love. The type of love that acknowledges flaws and failings as much as it does strengths and triumphs.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Reconciliation sounds like something you both want, and that is the requirement. I'll give you both homework... if you both love each other and want to stay.

Buy 2 copies of this book (one for each of you) - its 400+ pages long: Not Just Friends (mine is marked up quite a bit) - read first.
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503

After the Affair is apparently a good book, I have it - but I've not read it yet. It's next after my current book... His Needs Her Needs.
https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-He...eywords=his+needs+her+needs+by+willard+harley

Things are not perfect, but things are better than before the affair - because of improved communication and her not drinking booze like it was water, daily. We are both recovering from the effects of the affair. I think we'll make it... I hope we make it. But I no longer have such expectations of anything like that in life towards anyone... 100% trust. I never will.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak

If I may ask, what is it that you feel is or could be lacking in your reconciliation? If nothing is really lacking, what has bothered you the most of your husbands affairs? The difficulties that were hard for you to accept. I can tell you the fact my wife gave herself away for a few compliments astounds me. Sex for me is far deeper then that, it's the total giving of each other to the other. Not to be gross or to much detail, but a female allows someone inside them, I leave a part of me with the female, that's not just something you give away. I struggled with this for a long time, and part of the problem is I can't place myself in my wife's shoes regarding the fantasy of an affair. 

The deception was another aspect I struggled with. My wife for two and a half years denied any kind of affair. I was going crazy, my gut screamed, yet I couldn't find anything. I look back now and realize how stupid I was, all the mistakes I made because there was no way my wife would cheat. No way my wife could cheat, it just wasn't something she was capable of I kept thinking. Then I found an email, four damn words was all it was, "are you still enjoying". No period or question mark, no reply sent back. Finding that email I went into interrogation mode, nothing but kindness and the feeling of safety. She cracked, over two nights I heard nothing but a nightmare. Two days later I find out the twins aren't mine. 

The twins were two and a half at that time, I suspected an affair but I was completely blindsided by the paternity. Completely lost my MC took control, she did everything she could to ensure I would make it. She checked in on me regularly, made sure I was safe, until I found a night I was ready to end it all. No more pain I would feel, no more lies, just me and my weapon. After that night I found out something else I failed at. I never told my MC, in my mind I was too far gone for just attempting. 

Infidelity can bring you to your knees, make you do things you didn't think possible. Today, I am living proof that you can make it, you can have happiness and peace once again. And all of this can be had without a divorce. Both spouses have to commit, not try, but fully commit to the marriage. You have to self reflect to find what you brought to the marriage that was toxic. By no means am I perfect, I'm far from it, but I have committed myself fully to my reconciliation. I have committed myself to my wife, to my family, and to God. It can't be done on your own, you need more then just yourself, more then just God to be truthful. Reconciliation is full commitment or just walk away. 

I give you so much credit for staying after being cheated on twice. I can only hope that your husband realizes the grace you have extended to him. The forgiveness that would be excruciating to give, the pain you must have felt and worked through. You are a strong person to do what you are doing, I hope your husband is as strong also.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I know that my ex H had emotional affairs with people online at the steep decline of our marriage. Not sure if they ever went physical, but we were toast then anyway. 

I'm all for reconciliation if both parties are 100% engaged for the hard work ahead. In my case, there was nothing to even attempt to salvage. 

It's true that we don't see too many reconciliation journeys here anymore since I started posting to TAM. I have a rather clear cut template in my mind of what is needed for successful R, kind of like ingredients for baking a cake. There are some ingredients you can substitute, like applesauce for eggs, but you know the consistency and the taste will be different. If you're OK with that, you can still enjoy the cake and it works. Some things you just can't substitute without having to gag the cake down and some ingredients you simply can't do without and still be able to call it a cake.

My advice to anyone going through R, for what it's worth, is that if you are consistently getting back less than you put in, then it's time to get the heck out. However, if you can both put in the needed work and you can do this with consistent respect and love, even on the horrible trigger days, then there's a chance you can complete the journey and come out the other side a stronger couple. The willingness and patience is a GIFT from you, @Mizzbak, a gift from someone willing to offer a second (or even third) chance, and I urge you not to forget that as you go through this journey.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Let me start by saying that only the person in the marriage alone with the other spouse can ultimately decide if the marriage is worth saving. With that said, for me, forgiving my husband for his affair is the hardest and most painful thing I ever had to do so far in my life. Forgiveness is a choice that I have to remind myself often that I chose. Many things went into choosing to forgive him. First, I had to admit that no one is perfect. Secondly, I had to realize that his affair isn't a reflection of me in terms of my self worth, my beauty, my self esteem or my ability to meet his needs. His affair is his choice only and as a result his responsibility. Unfortunately, his choice to cheat damaged our relationship irrevocably. Many times the BS view this choice to cheat made by their partner means that they are lacking in some sense when in reality the one who is lacking is that spouse who is choosing to have the affair. My husband has yet been able to concretely give me an explanation as to why he cheated or what he was searching for in a relationship with another.

After 4 years, I still struggle with triggers and fully trusting him. I had to find a new normal in our relationship. The broken trust is the hardest aspect to contend with as it will never be as before the affair. In some ways, I have found an inner strength that forces me to realize that after the romantic love fades the choice to choose love is a daily affirmation. Just as he chose to damage us, I also can choose to leave. I had to let him know that I chose to forgive him but under any circumstances will I forgive him another. I can love him and not be married to him if his actions continually cause me pain. He also had to realize that it's his responsibility to be transparent without resentment and that healing from this has no time limit. I don't use the affair against him but he has to remain sensitive to the fact that my triggers aren't going to go away according to his time frame. Living with someone who has hurt me so deeply is the hardest choice I had ever made.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> Are there any other BS's here in CWI who are also trying reconciliation, who would like to share some of their thoughts/feelings/frustrations?
> 
> Reconciliation after infidelity is one of the most difficult things that I've tried to do. But, I'm also comfortable (most of the time) that I've made the right decision to try. I guess I'm asking whether anyone else might like to share any part of their journey? The intention would be to be open about what we're going through, so that we don't feel quite so alone.
> 
> ...


I'd really love advice on all fronts. I've chosen to try and work on my marriage. I'm still in the dark days, but have hope in a few things. 
My H didn't have affairs as such but did meet 7 men off a swinging site for oral sex. He is bi sexual, he's also done a polygraph to confirm no full sex happened or kissing, he literally turned up got a bj and left. He stopped December last year but I found out 2 weeks ago, I feel so broken. We have 2 children under two. I know he's not gay, he's a complex man, he doesn't emotionally connect to man and he certainly doesn't want to touch one. However is happy to get bjs off them. Really odd I know, but is my is what it is. 
I also know he's liked the attention off these swinging sites.
Anyway he's desperate to keep our marriage, he ill offer to leave his phone, takes pictures when he's out at my request and is seeking counselling. He's very remorseful. This is my hope. Out side of the infidelity he's an amazing father, friend and husband to me ( outside of the infidelity). 
He is Bi so when I question why not women from the site, he said because they are to involved, they are emotionally more needy they might push for kissing and sex and selfishly he didn't want to have to work at making them cum. He's not like that with me.
So his infidelity was sexual not emotionally needy. 
This also helps me process.
Aside of this I'm still devastated, I still can't believe this man did this to me, I'm just so shocked. It's still so incredibly raw. Trigger points are stupid, but there. Some days are better than others. Sex has been fantastic though. It's such a bizarre place I find myself in.
Anyway we do want to try and bring R, I'm not ignorant to how long this may take, so for me on my personal journey through this and so grateful to read positive posts that may help me through my dark days.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Mizzbak
> 
> I'm just over three years from my d-day, my journey incomplete, my healing not complete. Healing has been slow, but intentionally, as I want the best marriage possible. The work is hard, I've felt like tapping out many times, but the bigger picture requires you to keep moving forward. Many here believe I should have divorced, many times I about did, but that was not the best path for me. Reconciliation was my best path, and I knew if I chose it, the work would be incredibly difficult.
> 
> ...


This is super helpful, thank you so much for sharing x


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@JayOwen, thank you very much for your frankness and openness. I can identify with so much of what you said. 

I've told my husband that I do believe that right now, he thinks he loves me. But that I'm not sure that he actually does. That it's actually the threat (of losing his family and lifestyle, the respect of those he cares about and even compromising our longer term plans) that has driven him to convince himself that, of course, he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. I know that he struggles so much with knowing that his lies and deceit have made it difficult for me to take any loving words at face value. I agree with you that the only way that I'll ever know for sure is with time. But sometimes it's hard to wait for that. He has given me full transparency ito devices, accounts, diary etc. He answers any questions I still have as fully as he can. He doesn't try to deflect my pain or his guilt. But what I really want is to see inside his heart. 

My husband's emails to his first AP were romantic, almost flowery in nature. After I found them, I stopped responding to anything similar in his emails/messages to me. He has said how constrained he felt in expressing his love for me over the last 10 years because of this. He recently told me that he wasn't going to let that happen now. That he was going to carry on telling me that he loves me verbally and in writing, even though he knows that right now, I doubt it. Because he believes that having the meaning on his side is enough right now - and that with time, I'll believe it on mine. So I guess, that's trust from him too. 

When we rugswept after his first affair, he went to IC for a few sessions to make me happy. He didn't get much out of it. Clearly. This time he went off his own bat, agreeing with me that he needed to understand this part of himself. He went for several months, but recently stopped because his therapist's wife got very ill. I am encouraging him to try and find someone else, but he's really busy at work and very tired. I get a lot out of IC, but I'm not sure that he does. He said to me tonight that he feels he should only go if he's getting something out of it. That our MC and personal conversations are actually more helpful to his growth than the IC was. I came close to pulling rank and saying that he has to make a plan to go, but I want him to want to go. Your comments about your wife "fooling" the therapist struck home. Him going just to keep me quiet doesn't help at all; and neither does IC necessarily ensure that he reaches the point in personal growth where he wouldn't cheat again. How will I know when he has? (You know those stick-on temperature gauges - I want a cheat-o-meter.)

Ignore me on that - it's late. Yes, I agree. Trust is such a complicated animal. Slow-growing also.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

Mizzbak said:


> (You know those stick-on temperature gauges - I want a cheat-o-meter.)


Ha! If you find someone selling them pick up a spare for me too.

I hear a lot of familiar thoughts in your posts. For me it's when she sends me a cute text message or something -- I appreciate the gesture, but it immediately gets me thinking about the broader context (both that I now know how fake such cute messages were for her in years past, and conversely how genuinely she meant it when she sent such messages to the other guy). Really makes it hard to say "Wait, is that real ... or are you just following the only relationship patterns that you know?"

Sometimes feels like relationships I had when I was younger, where the fun faded for one or the other person, and then there was that awkward dance of everyone politely insisting everything was okay right up until the moment somebody got dumped. Sometimes I was the dumper, sometimes I was the dumpee. But I remember on both sides there was that sense of trying to make something work because it seemed like it should. Obviously a marriage isn't like that, but there's that same sense of "not knowing what the other person really meant" -- it was annoying then and it's murderous now.

As for your guy, I'd agree that he should find someone else for IC -- sounds like maybe the first person wasn't helping as much anyway (or had run its course). Worth a shot (or three).

Lastly, I hope you're finding a few moments here and there where you still enjoy his company -- even if only by actively NOT thinking about everything. Even if it doesn't soothe the doubts after the moment passes, at least it's nice to be reminded why you're even considering trying. I take those very seriously for myself. Even if they don't feel as golden as they once did, they're still important I think.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Trigger points are stupid, but there.


Don't minimize your feelings. As much as the word "trigger" has been abused by pop-culture lately I absolutely think they are valid, painful, and deserving of respect.

All sorts of things trigger me -- there's half a dozen stores and restaurants I won't set foot in any more. Mint chapstick -- right out. The list goes on. And you know what? It's valid!

It reminds me in a split second of the worst emotional pain I've ever experienced.

You're absolutely allowed to call those things out. And I certainly hope he's not trying to tell you you're overreacting.

You're two weeks into this. You're right in the middle of the crap. That great sex is going to fade soon, and the anger is going to start to bubble up. In other words, your compass is still spinning. I wouldn't commit to anything either way until it calms down -- then again, I'm terrible at all this so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I can't really tell you if reconciliation works. I'm not only not sure I'm doing it right, or doing it all, it's only been five months.

Everyone I've ever talked to about this has said that the process takes YEARS to recover from. So take it one step at a time.

Oh, and if you're not already get in to see someone -- a therapist, counselor, whatever (I would personally avoid religious counsel as it seems there's a bias towards "forgive and forget" instead of "remorse and work through" but that's just me). Good luck lady -- tough road ahead, be strong!


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@drifting on
I have so many things to say in response to your post. But because it is late where I am (and I tend to get even wordier when tired), I am going to limit myself tonight to this- 

The call to look critically inward at ourselves. I've seen it before in your posts elsewhere. It speaks to me, even though I resent the circumstances of hearing it so much. It is so easy to say - I am the betrayed spouse. I should not have to change. I am just fine as I am. Why should I (the one who has been wronged) have to go through even the tiniest bit of additional pain? To have to acknowledge that just as he has damaged me, so I have damaged my husband many times in our years together. It may not have been via the same mechanism, but pain is pain. And if we are to build a better and stronger marriage, then I also have to re-make myself better and stronger too.

Thank you. I am so glad that you posted on this thread - your words are very wise and thought-provoking.


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

maritalloneliness said:


> Many times the BS view this choice to cheat made by their partner means that they are lacking in some sense when in reality the one who is lacking is that spouse who is choosing to have the affair. My husband has yet been able to concretely give me an explanation as to why he cheated or what he was searching for in a relationship with another.


This is my stumbling block - So I don't know if reconciliation will work for me as I cannot get a concrete explanation from my spouse.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak said:


> @drifting on
> I have so many things to say in response to your post. But because it is late where I am (and I tend to get even wordier when tired), I am going to limit myself tonight to this-
> 
> The call to look critically inward at ourselves. I've seen it before in your posts elsewhere. It speaks to me, even though I resent the circumstances of hearing it so much. It is so easy to say - I am the betrayed spouse. I should not have to change. I am just fine as I am. Why should I (the one who has been wronged) have to go through even the tiniest bit of additional pain? To have to acknowledge that just as he has damaged me, so I have damaged my husband many times in our years together. It may not have been via the same mechanism, but pain is pain. And if we are to build a better and stronger marriage, then I also have to re-make myself better and stronger too.
> ...




Wise and thought provoking?? Lol!! I'm kidding, thank you for the kind words. For me, six months from d-day I knew I could live with or without my wife. It was imperative that I knew this, for this gave me the strength to offer reconciliation. What also helped is seeing the remorse from my wife, and to be honest, it shows more now then ever. My wife is a person with pride, not overly so, the correct amount that everyone loved about her. When it came to her affair she had zero pride and one hundred percent humility. In fact her honesty was returning at that time too. 

During the first six months I felt so many emotions I couldn't possibly list them all. I too, felt that I was not the one who did anything wrong. Then MY flaws began to emerge in my mind, I wasn't perfect, I did things that adversely affected the marriage also. I don't think I deserved to be cheated on, but the marriage faults were half my fault. This is a very difficult realization to accept when you are in so much pain. Add in some other nuances that infidelity brings and it makes it even more difficult to accept. But, I had to own my own shot so to speak. 

As those six months began to move by I also realized that cheaters are sometimes not bad people, but instead made a very bad choice and series of choices. It's how that person responds that is important. I can't guarantee my wife will not cheat again, but judging from what she has shown me, I highly doubt it would ever cross her mind. Boundaries are something that she learned and lives by. She has been in IC fixing shat was broken in her as I am in IC to fix what is broken in me. 

In high school our freshman hockey team went undefeated, a perfect season, with person who were not perfect. My wife not I are perfect, but as a couple, we can be perfect for each other if we do the hard work. Now I'm sure you can understand that when you choose to reconcile some will say how unwise that is. That the person who cheated showed you their true self, that they have some sort of character flaw that destroys. I don't think that is true in every case, I feel people can change for the better. In reality my wife changed for the worse when she had her affair. 

My approach to reconciliation came from a place of strength, but many may say it wasn't. The thing is I know me, I know I could have left and been healthy, and that all came after I accepted the affair. I'm definitely not happy about the affair, but that doesn't mean I didn't accept that the affair happened. It was much harder to accept the paternity, no lies there! Once I accepted the affair I could begin my own healing, build my self esteem, become that stronger man I thought I once was. This takes time, you don't just rush into thinking you can forgive. Forgiving is such a critical factor in moving forward in my opinion. You also have to learn to not live in the past, don't look in the rear view mirror or you lose sight of moving forward. Don't forget the past, but heal yourself and then move forward. 

I'm not a supporter of reconciliation or divorce, I'm a person who will support the OP unless they are showing to not think about what happened to them. These are the posters who are in shock of what happened and disbelief that they can't find an answer. Your choices must come from your brain, your heart is not to be involved. Your brain makes the logical choice, your heart makes emotional choices. 

I hope in some way I have helped you to move forward. Many posters here helped me in my time of need. If you ever need anything you can pm me for help or just to vent. Infidelity is devastating, I know as most others do, and it's very easy to get confused.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> This is super helpful, thank you so much for sharing x




Thank you for the kind words, I hope that what I have gone through can help others. If you have any questions just pm me and I'll do my best to help.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Wise and thought provoking?? Lol!! I'm kidding, thank you for the kind words. For me, six months from d-day I knew I could live with or without my wife. It was imperative that I knew this, for this gave me the strength to offer reconciliation. What also helped is seeing the remorse from my wife, and to be honest, it shows more now then ever. My wife is a person with pride, not overly so, the correct amount that everyone loved about her. When it came to her affair she had zero pride and one hundred percent humility. In fact her honesty was returning at that time too.
> 
> During the first six months I felt so many emotions I couldn't possibly list them all. I too, felt that I was not the one who did anything wrong. Then MY flaws began to emerge in my mind, I wasn't perfect, I did things that adversely affected the marriage also. I don't think I deserved to be cheated on, but the marriage faults were half my fault. This is a very difficult realization to accept when you are in so much pain. Add in some other nuances that infidelity brings and it makes it even more difficult to accept. But, I had to own my own shot so to speak.
> 
> ...


Very helpful thank you 😊


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

JayOwen said:


> Don't minimize your feelings. As much as the word "trigger" has been abused by pop-culture lately I absolutely think they are valid, painful, and deserving of respect.
> 
> All sorts of things trigger me -- there's half a dozen stores and restaurants I won't set foot in any more. Mint chapstick -- right out. The list goes on. And you know what? It's valid!
> 
> ...


Today is s tricky day, sometimes my heart starts racing and I feel panic setting in, I can usually bring myself out of it, I also have no idea what starts it's. Yes I definitely feel right in the middle of it. I lay awake or just start staring into space, like an awful dream. I feel like I don't know who I am now or were I belong or who do I belong too, I'm lost. Just clinging onto one normal moment to the next. I've never felt so broken. Currently arranging counselling around my husbands work rota. We start next week, none religious. 😢


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

My advice. Don't try reconciliation. It's a life killer and will push you to the edge of sanity.
After 15 years of trying reconciliation I have come back here looking for answers. 
The best I've gotten so far is to leave the marriage. 
But like I said before I have no idea how a BW deals with it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Today is s tricky day, sometimes my heart starts racing and I feel panic setting in, I can usually bring myself out of it, I also have no idea what starts it's. Yes I definitely feel right in the middle of it. I lay awake or just start staring into space, like an awful dream. I feel like I don't know who I am now or were I belong or who do I belong too, I'm lost. Just clinging onto one normal moment to the next. I've never felt so broken. Currently arranging counselling around my husbands work rota. We start next week, none religious. 😢





You are fairly early in to infidelity as you only found out roughly a month ago. Your emotions are on a roller coaster that you can't get off of. Feelings and emotions are fleeting, thoughts are racing, and you are devastated and destroyed. The beliefs you had your entire life are now gone, you can sit with numerous friends and family, yet you feel alone. You have no direction in which to move and currently reside in a dark room not really wanting human contact. 

Right now nothing makes much sense to you and trying to rationalize something is very difficult. Truth is you are in shock, your brain was injured and in self protection mode. During this time your brain doesn't work as before to keep from being injured more. At this point I would start IC, find someone who is specialized in infidelity. Choose this person wisely as I do think some therapists can do more harm then good. If you don't like the fit with who you select find another. 

If I were you I wouldn't decide between divorce and reconciliation for six months. Not to stay in limbo, but to get yourself to a healthier point to make a better decision. Entering reconciliation needs to come from a position of strength, and sadly I don't think you are there yet. Not by your fault at all, but your brain is still in shock and not working as it should. How do you try to fix yourself or care for others when you yourself are in such a broken state? Answer is it can't be done at this time. 

Once the feeling of shock wears off the disbelief begins to set in. Obviously we enter marriage not thinking of cheating or being cheated on, but it can happen. When the disbelief begins to wear off the bonding starts, you don't want your spouse to leave your side, the hysterical bonding in full swing. Here is where you need to be careful, rug sweeping can easily form and then reconciliation has no chance. After six months you will be in a much better situation to decide divorce or reconciliation. You will begin to know if you can accept the affair(s) and move forward from there. Since six months has gone by you are now on a path to recovery, for you, and can now better work on your marriage if you decide to. 

The beginning is very scary and paralyzing, reeling backwards is so easy to do. Find a friend or family member to confide in so you have someone who can both watch you and be an outlet for you. I feel for you in your situation, I remember it like yesterday when I was in your position. Don't give up, get help, and stay strong.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

We are just over 7 years out from the first D day and I hardly ever think about it any more. It's taken a **** ton of hard work, more by him than me, but things are really good now. We have a 'normal' marriage with it's ups and downs, and today I trust him more than I could ever trust someone new.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> We are just over 7 years out from the first D day and I hardly ever think about it any more. It's taken a **** ton of hard work, more by him than me, but things are really good now. We have a 'normal' marriage with it's ups and downs, and today I trust him more than I could ever trust someone new.




You are a strong person for overcoming more then one d-day. I tip my hat to you for having strength to reconcile. When the paternity of the boys was revealed two days after d-day, well that about killed me. Having more then one d-day, I can't imagine the strength you had to exude to move forward. God bless.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

You are fairly early in to infidelity as you only found out roughly a month ago. Your emotions are on a roller coaster that you can't get off of. Feelings and emotions are fleeting, thoughts are racing, and you are devastated and destroyed. The beliefs you had your entire life are now gone, you can sit with numerous friends and family, yet you feel alone. You have no direction in which to move and currently reside in a dark room not really wanting human contact.

Yup, this is exactly today/night. Physical pain would be preferable over this. It's so super painful, images racing through my head, then I feel again the pain that he choose to do this to me, he choose those people over all our love over everything he promised me on our wedding day. I remember him saying right in the middle of these moments of infidelity, that he never wanted to hurt me or me to be hurt ever again because of my past, he then had a beautiful tattoo of our wedding date visible on his neck. All of this while he was arranging oral sex with men. I just don't understand, it's so hard to comprehend this is the same man. 
Our counselling starts next week, I really hope to feel some kind of new hope through it. Tonight my entirety feels shattered. Sorry for harping on. I just needed to blast off a little.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

DepressedDiva said:


> This is my stumbling block - So I don't know if reconciliation will work for me as I cannot get a concrete explanation from my spouse.


There is no deep answer. They did it because they wanted to. At the time your safety and loyalty and maybe even their love for you were not enough to keep them from going for the feelings that they craved, whether emotional or physical. Don't be one of these BS who spend years tortured by this question because I just gave you the best one you are ever going to get. If it was something else then everyone who goes through the same thing whether broken home, childhood abuse, bad marriage, sexless marriage would do it. They don't. Cheating is a direct result of poor character that allows people to do very hurtful destructive things to people who they love and love them. That's really it. That is the difference then the guy in a sexless marriage who cheats and the guy who doesn't. 

The choose themselves over you. People do ****ty things. You really must face it head on and then decide if they are worth the risk and if you are sure enough that they won't do it again. 

There is no happiness in trying to avoid this awful truth. Looking for another answer is a goose chase. Even if he were to say, my Mom never loved me your next question would be, well why do some people whose Mom never loved them not cheat.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Today is s tricky day, sometimes my heart starts racing and I feel panic setting in, I can usually bring myself out of it, I also have no idea what starts it's. Yes I definitely feel right in the middle of it. I lay awake or just start staring into space, like an awful dream. I feel like I don't know who I am now or were I belong or who do I belong too, I'm lost. Just clinging onto one normal moment to the next. I've never felt so broken. Currently arranging counselling around my husbands work rota. We start next week, none religious. 😢


Youngwife - I'm not sure if it helps to know this, but I felt very similar feelings in the early months after I found out. Sometimes I still get ... I suppose you could call them aftershocks. That feeling of panic. The laying in bed and staring into space. (Wondering where some of those strange marks on the ceiling come from?) I sometimes used to imagine that it was because my mind and heart were busy processing things underneath the surface, analysing whatever my new "normal" was going to be. It's OK to feel like you don't know what or how or who - your whole life's framework has been shaken up. 

For me, the way forward ... and a clearer path of how to get there came slowly. I'd think something for a while and then abandon it. (We'll stay together, but live platonically. No, we'll have an open marriage. No, I want everything back as it was ... only I can't (that one hurts the worst.)) If you are able to go to individual counselling as well, I'd really recommend that. I'm not sure that it's possible to overdose on therapy. MC is about treating your marriage - in this case, as it is affected by your husband's infidelity. You've also got a bunch of stuff that you need to work through internally for yourself. If you can't go to therapy for that, are you talking to anyone that you trust to have your best interests at heart?

Thinking of you. It does get easier, I promise.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

I am more of a lurker on TAM  but I am a betrayed wife who has been in R for...4 years now, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't actually remember the dates of my d-days anymore. 

It can be done!  

I think a really, really big part of what made our R successful was my focus on self-improvement/self-empowerment. I went back to college, established myself in a well-paying career, competed in a few figure shows and powerlifting meets, got involved in local politics, etc. Now I know that if he cheats again, I'll be just fine. It's a very empowering, safe feeling. 


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

veganmermaid said:


> I am more of a lurker on TAM  but I am a betrayed wife who has been in R for...4 years now, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't actually remember the dates of my d-days anymore.
> 
> It can be done!
> 
> ...




QFT

This is the point you know that you can move forward, when you know you will be ok without the marriage and your spouse. Once you know this a weight is removed from your shoulders, the ropes holding you down frayed and torn off. Your healing receives such a positive boost to move forward.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> Youngwife - I'm not sure if it helps to know this, but I felt very similar feelings in the early months after I found out. Sometimes I still get ... I suppose you could call them aftershocks. That feeling of panic. The laying in bed and staring into space. (Wondering where some of those strange marks on the ceiling come from?) I sometimes used to imagine that it was because my mind and heart were busy processing things underneath the surface, analysing whatever my new "normal" was going to be. It's OK to feel like you don't know what or how or who - your whole life's framework has been shaken up.
> 
> For me, the way forward ... and a clearer path of how to get there came slowly. I'd think something for a while and then abandon it. (We'll stay together, but live platonically. No, we'll have an open marriage. No, I want everything back as it was ... only I can't (that one hurts the worst.)) If you are able to go to individual counselling as well, I'd really recommend that. I'm not sure that it's possible to overdose on therapy. MC is about treating your marriage - in this case, as it is affected by your husband's infidelity. You've also got a bunch of stuff that you need to work through internally for yourself. If you can't go to therapy for that, are you talking to anyone that you trust to have your best interests at heart?
> 
> Thinking of you. It does get easier, I promise.


Thank you so so much, honestly thank you for your words, this helps lots.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

DepressedDiva said:


> This is my stumbling block - So I don't know if reconciliation will work for me as I cannot get a concrete explanation from my spouse.


DepressedDiva, I agree with @sokillme on part of this - that there isn't a good reason for an affair. It is possible to unpack the circumstances under which it happened, but really, it doesn't explain the cheating itself, just maybe the how or why it happened then. The reality is that infidelity is neither logical nor fair. IMO, even in the most unhappy marriages there is always a fairer, more moral way to deal with ... whatever the affair might get blamed on. 

I do disagree with sokillme about cheating being unique to people of "poor character". To me that's too easy an explanation. I believe that, under the wrong circumstances, we're all capable of cheating. I also believe that people can grow and change. I have done things in my life that have hurt people. Many of them, I would not do again - because I have understood the consequences of my actions, because living with the hurt I caused is truly awful. Living with the damage to myself caused by those same actions has also been awful. And I do believe that about my husband as well. He is a second offender because he didn't have to live with the consequences the first time - because I politely hid my pain and anger under the carpet. And because he got to do the same with his guilt and shame. 

For me deciding whether I wanted to try reconciling, boiled down to looking at the value of my marriage to me. Yes, it wasn't perfect. Yes, my husband has hurt me very badly. But if I put the affair to one side, and considered the relationship without it as objectively as I could. To me, was it worth trying to save?


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

veganmermaid said:


> I am more of a lurker on TAM  but I am a betrayed wife who has been in R for...4 years now, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't actually remember the dates of my d-days anymore.
> 
> It can be done!
> 
> ...


 Extra big, super size LIKE!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mizzbak said:


> I do disagree with sokillme about cheating being unique to people of "poor character". To me that's too easy an explanation. I believe that, under the wrong circumstances, we're all capable of cheating. I also believe that people can grow and change. I have done things in my life that have hurt people. Many of them, I would not do again - because I have understood the consequences of my actions, because living with the hurt I caused is truly awful. Living with the damage to myself caused by those same actions has also been awful. And I do believe that about my husband as well. He is a second offender because he didn't have to live with the consequences the first time - because I politely hid my pain and anger under the carpet. And because he got to do the same with his guilt and shame.


First of all this assumes that there are actually people who don't understand the consequences of cheating. Show me the person who cheats and doesn't hide it. Why are they are hiding it unless they understand there are consequences. Besides that even if you didn't care it's still wrong. Did he cheat with a committed person the second time? If so what of his responsibility to his affair partner's partner? I get that he made no vows but just being a decent human being. 

Nope it's a character issue, it's not a ignorance issue and using ignorance as an excuse leaves you very vulnerable. Unless the cheater understands it is a character issue and works on it there is a potential to cheat again. The only reason for being faithful is because it is the right thing to do. It's not for love, it's not because it hurts a person, though those are good reasons but they all have the potential to be transient. The ultimate reason needs to be because it's wrong to make a vow and then break it. 

For instance, now he knows how much he hurt you and he doesn't want to do that again. Well what happens if you get into a ongoing fight and he stops caring so much. It's a risk. 

There are cheaters and non-cheaters. The idea that everyone is a potential cheater is insulting. We're not, circumstance has nothing to do with it.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

With respect @sokillme, you learned what infidelity does from a very young age. (At my guess, it wasn't an intellectual understanding that cheating is wrong, but a far more visceral education about the pain it causes. ) Unlike you, I was lucky enough to grow up in a home where I never even saw infidelity, let alone had to live with its consequences. 

When I was single and much younger, long before I understood about love and hurt, I became friends with a married man. (I knew nothing of emotional affairs, so I assumed that our relationship was innocent because it was not physical - if I thought about it all.) In a not too short time, things came crashing down around me. It is not a lesson that I have ever had to learn again.

One of my favourite posts on this topic, from a different thread - Do cheaters always cheat again? ( I hope that I don't break something by quoting cross-thread)


Emerging Buddhist said:


> A cheater cheats first on themselves and then like a ripple, affects all in the area around them... nothing left untouched.
> Those that do not learn from the chaos it does to self and others, are doomed to repeat it.


I agree that infidelity is a character issue, but our characters are not cast in stone; and guilt, shame and sorrow are powerful motivators and modifiers.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mizzbak said:


> With respect @sokillme, you learned what infidelity does from a very young age. (At my guess, it wasn't an intellectual understanding that cheating is wrong, but a far more visceral education about the pain it causes. ) Unlike you, I was lucky enough to grow up in a home where I never even saw infidelity, let alone had to live with its consequences.
> 
> When I was single and much younger, long before I understood about love and hurt, I became friends with a married man. (I knew nothing of emotional affairs, so I assumed that our relationship was innocent because it was not physical - if I thought about it all.) In a not too short time, things came crashing down around me. It is not a lesson that I have ever had to learn again.
> 
> ...


I hope you are right and I'm wrong.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Me too, sokillme. Me too.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

I am reprinting some posts below that I can relate to:




> Originally Posted by *veganmermaid*
> 
> I think a really, really big part of what made our R successful was my focus on self-improvement/self-empowerment. I went back to college, established myself in a well-paying career, competed in a few figure shows and powerlifting meets, got involved in local politics, etc. Now I know that if he cheats again, I'll be just fine. It's a very empowering, safe feeling.


The above is very similar to what I did. I went back to college, advanced in my career to a very well paying salary, got involved in some local politics, got a lot closer to my family (Parents, sister, children), and ran back to my spiritual roots looking for strength.




> *By Drifting On*
> This is the point you know that you can move forward, when you know you will be ok without the marriage and your spouse. Once you know this a weight is removed from your shoulders, the ropes holding you down frayed and torn off. Your healing receives such a positive boost to move forward.


I gave it 100% for the last 6 months and got to the point that I knew that I would be OK without my spouse. I was relieved when she left and was looking forward to the change in my life.




> *By Drifting On*
> My approach to reconciliation came from a place of strength, ……Forgiving is such a critical factor in moving forward in my opinion. You also have to learn to not live in the past, don't look in the rear view mirror or you lose sight of moving forward. Don't forget the past, but heal yourself and then move forward.


In the first few months I was in the mode of “Pick me, pick me”. When I got stronger I divorced her. When she came crawling back I allowed her back in the home and had to work on forgiveness. I had to have my spiritual life fed and I had to take actions to follow my faith so that I could forgive. The first part of forgiveness for me was to prove my forgiveness by getting to the point that I did not have hateful or vengeful emotions towards her and get to the point that I did not what her hurt anymore. After that I was still very Leary of trusting but after her proving for over 4 years that she was no longer in contact with the OM I remarried her. We have over 20 years of R and my spirituality played a huge role in our long term success.

I do not want to give the impression that we lived happily ever after. For me there is permanent damage in a few areas; and they are that I no longer admire her as much as I used to and I no longer believe that she will always have my best interest at heart. I also know that I had an unrealistic belief about her love for me. I thought that she would never betray me and would always have my best interest at heart. *Because I have adjusted to that reality I am more secure and know that I cannot be that hurt again.* 

However, we do have a good relationship most of the time; not great but good. The reconciliation has resulted in some very positive results. One is that we have a GREAT relationship with our children and grandchildren. Another is that we are financially secured for our retirement.

Prior to my wife’s infidelity I could have been a better husband but nothing I did wrong caused the betrayal. I have become a better husband and person.

I am fortunate and grateful as I have good health, great relationship with my family, retirement secured, and a good marriage most of the time, and I have grown spiritually. 

Mizzbak
It is possible that your husband’s positive actions for years will result in you trusting him enough to have enough security that you will be affected very little or not at all.. You are not sure that your husband loves you the way you want. Your husband may love you with the capacity of love that he has but not the “romantic dream of love” that you desire. I can understand why you would question his love because he has violated love twice in the most horrific way.

My mom told me once “son sometimes you have to settle for less than what you want in this life” I have learned to settle for a love that is less than 100% loyalty and a love that will not always have my best interest at heart. *Having mostly adjusted to that reality has given me a lot of acceptance and much less disappointment. I have a good life and am contented almost all of the time*.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000 - how are you doing? Hope you're OK.

(Weekends were weird for me - during the week we had a far more developed routine, so it was easy to just coast along on that. But the weekends are much more ad-libbed - either putting on a brave face (for kids/family/friends) or trying hard to keep something functional going with my husband. We'd be having these incredibly stressful conversations and then have to take the dog to the vet for his shots.)


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Mizzbak
> If I may ask, what is it that you feel is or could be lacking in your reconciliation? If nothing is really lacking, what has bothered you the most of your husbands affairs? The difficulties that were hard for you to accept. I can tell you the fact my wife gave herself away for a few compliments astounds me. Sex for me is far deeper then that, it's the total giving of each other to the other. Not to be gross or to much detail, but a female allows someone inside them, I leave a part of me with the female, that's not just something you give away. I struggled with this for a long time, and part of the problem is I can't place myself in my wife's shoes regarding the fantasy of an affair.


Drifting 

I can identify with how you see sex. For me it is a very intimate sharing - mostly because it is about making myself physically very vulnerable to the other person. My husband and I have been married a long time. Of course, I haven't felt deep, mystical closeness every time with him. But, what bothered me most about my husband's affair was how he carried on having sex with me whilst he was becoming emotionally and physically entangled with her. (He didn't have sex with her, but she certainly had her tongue in his mouth a lot more than I did for the entire period of their affair.) WHen I asked him how he could have done that, he first told me that sex with me had become less intimate for him at that time. That he hadn't felt a true connection with me for a while. I know that he was being honest as I had asked him to be, but it hurt. So very much. He's tried to explain it better since then. But still, it makes me feel like he was using me to meet his physical needs ... and her to meet his emotional ones. I haven't really kissed him much since D-Day, and I cannot imagine what you went through when you made love to your wife again. When we do make love now, I do try to make sure that we are connecting emotionally as well as physically. It may feel a little forced, but that is preferable to the other.

Things lacking from our reconciliation? I am not sure that anything is really lacking from the process itself, but I miss normal things that should be there, but aren't - like normal anger (his). I read (somewhere in the hundreds of things I've read in the last 8 months) that one of the issues with effective reconciliation is knowing how and when to restore the balance of power to normalcy. Obviously, during reconciliation, the "power" in the relationship is tilted in the BS's favour. I think here on TAM it is spoken of as the wayward spouse doing the heavy lifting. The thing is, it can't stay like that forever because that would become unhealthy. I know that I'm not at that point yet, but the problem is that, at the moment ... he's treating me a little like he did when I was pregnant. As though I am physically fragile and need to be cosseted and pandered to. It's very hard to get him to express normal anger or irritation at normal, minor issues (even when, frankly, I deserve it). The reality is that normal life and all its petty irritations is still going on. So I want/need him to be normal about that. I can almost see him making the decision that I am She Who Must Be Obeyed ... at all costs. It makes me feel like he sees me as weak; and also that he is being dishonest about his true feelings. Is this petulant and pathetic? I know he's trying hard. And I know we can't go back. But I do just want ... normal, sometimes.

Your story has given me a lot of hope. Thank you again.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

maritalloneliness said:


> Let me start by saying that only the person in the marriage alone with the other spouse can ultimately decide if the marriage is worth saving. With that said, for me, forgiving my husband for his affair is the hardest and most painful thing I ever had to do so far in my life. Forgiveness is a choice that I have to remind myself often that I chose. Many things went into choosing to forgive him. First, I had to admit that no one is perfect. Secondly, I had to realize that his affair isn't a reflection of me in terms of my self worth, my beauty, my self esteem or my ability to meet his needs. His affair is his choice only and as a result his responsibility. Unfortunately, his choice to cheat damaged our relationship irrevocably. Many times the BS view this choice to cheat made by their partner means that they are lacking in some sense when in reality the one who is lacking is that spouse who is choosing to have the affair. My husband has yet been able to concretely give me an explanation as to why he cheated or what he was searching for in a relationship with another.
> 
> After 4 years, I still struggle with triggers and fully trusting him. I had to find a new normal in our relationship. The broken trust is the hardest aspect to contend with as it will never be as before the affair. In some ways, I have found an inner strength that forces me to realize that after the romantic love fades the choice to choose love is a daily affirmation. Just as he chose to damage us, I also can choose to leave. I had to let him know that I chose to forgive him but under any circumstances will I forgive him another. I can love him and not be married to him if his actions continually cause me pain. He also had to realize that it's his responsibility to be transparent without resentment and that healing from this has no time limit. I don't use the affair against him but he has to remain sensitive to the fact that my triggers aren't going to go away according to his time frame. Living with someone who has hurt me so deeply is the hardest choice I had ever made.


maritalloneliness, what did/do you do when the anger comes bubbling back? I keep telling myself that I have forgiven him and that this was a conscious choice. But I still sometimes have ... they're not exactly triggers ... just me re-realising the hurt. I feel like I should be able to walk away from the negative emotions; because they have no place if I have forgiven him. They are now less than they were. But they still sometimes colour things for days at a time. I suppose what I'm asking is, what does forgiveness feel like to you?

And if I may ask a question about your husband - what has he done or how has he changed that you are prepared to consider trusting him again?

Thank you for sharing yourself here.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Mizzbak said:


> maritalloneliness, what did/do you do when the anger comes bubbling back? I keep telling myself that I have forgiven him and that this was a conscious choice. But I still sometimes have ... they're not exactly triggers ... just me re-realising the hurt. I feel like I should be able to walk away from the negative emotions; because they have no place if I have forgiven him. They are now less than they were. But they still sometimes colour things for days at a time. I suppose what I'm asking is, what does forgiveness feel like to you?
> 
> And if I may ask a question about your husband - what has he done or how has he changed that you are prepared to consider trusting him again?
> 
> Thank you for sharing yourself here.


I recently had a conversation with a friend about how people in committed relationship see love differently. After being married for 20 years, I am at a place of realization that my husband will never consistently love me the way I need him to and some people might view that as sad and to some degree it probably is. I've also realize that I probably come short in the way I love him in equal measures. Love in its greatest form is different for each one of us in committed relationships and it constantly is changing. I'm not trying to sound abstract but I know for me choosing to love him as the person who has dealt me the worst imaginable pain is very difficult and at times I hate him for this. It's hard but you have to acknowledge this and grieve for the loss of what you thought your relationship meant.
When the memories come and I can feel the stabbing pain of his betrayal, I tell him what I'm feeling and although he tells me how awful he feels when I'm feeling like this he accepts this as my feelings and the best thing he can do for me is to just be physically present and let me feel this. He once asked me how I can stand to be with him when he has hurt me so much and I guess that is when love is most confusing for both of us.
I hope I was of some help. Your husband's greatest strength will have to be his acceptance that he has deeply hurt you and he has to take his own pain out of the equation to be present for you whether it means staying firm in your presence while you berate him so be it but find what you need to do for yourself to love him through this if it's your choice.
I think the hardest thing to do would be to walk away from someone you love but if his behavior constantly disregard your own needs, walking away would be necessary. 

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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak said:


> Drifting
> 
> I can identify with how you see sex. For me it is a very intimate sharing - mostly because it is about making myself physically very vulnerable to the other person. My husband and I have been married a long time. Of course, I haven't felt deep, mystical closeness every time with him. But, what bothered me most about my husband's affair was how he carried on having sex with me whilst he was becoming emotionally and physically entangled with her. (He didn't have sex with her, but she certainly had her tongue in his mouth a lot more than I did for the entire period of their affair.) WHen I asked him how he could have done that, he first told me that sex with me had become less intimate for him at that time. That he hadn't felt a true connection with me for a while. I know that he was being honest as I had asked him to be, but it hurt. So very much. He's tried to explain it better since then. But still, it makes me feel like he was using me to meet his physical needs ... and her to meet his emotional ones. I haven't really kissed him much since D-Day, and I cannot imagine what you went through when you made love to your wife again. When we do make love now, I do try to make sure that we are connecting emotionally as well as physically. It may feel a little forced, but that is preferable to the other.
> 
> ...




Mizzbak 

Hearing you think of sex as I do is actually refreshing to me, thank you for sharing that. The hysterical bonding, or me thinking I was reclaiming my wife, was an important time. I hate in myself for thinking I was reclaiming my wife, but for a time that's what I honestly felt. In a way I see reclaiming as being very shallow. But to be honest, that was a part of how and what I felt. Truly, I missed being able to look into her eyes and saying I love you without uttering a word. That took some time to come back for both of us. For my wife it was because she had been feeling my pain as I did. 

I struggled being intimate with my wife, sex was very clumsy is the best to describe it. Almost like you have forgotten how to even have sex. As time goes by it begins to get better, in fact I now look into my wife's eyes as we are being intimate. As you can imagine this is so very important in our recovery. 

As for the anger her moments of normalcy, that has been forever changed. Instead, keep anger from creeping in and instead communicate rationally for a solution. If your husband doesn't get angry I see that as good, but not if he is giving in to you because of his affair. That will simply be a cancer that in time will come out as resentment towards you. So that needs to stop as soon as possible. Your husband instead needs to communicate as to why he wants something a certain way, even if it is not how you wish to solve the problem. This is how you must decide together and make sacrifices together, calmly and rationally. It can't be like your marriage used to be, that way led to the both of you becoming distant. But your new marriage has to be different then the old, stay away from those old marriage traps. 

I wish you the best of luck in your reconciliation. I hope you both have the strength to make it through and become a happy couple together. You mentioned that you have been married a long time, my wife and I will be together for a total of thirty years together this year. We dated seven years and will be married twenty-three years at the end of this month.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> First of all this assumes that there are actually people who don't understand the consequences of cheating. Show me the person who cheats and doesn't hide it. Why are they are hiding it unless they understand there are consequences. Besides that even if you didn't care it's still wrong. Did he cheat with a committed person the second time? If so what of his responsibility to his affair partner's partner? I get that he made no vows but just being a decent human being.
> 
> Nope it's a character issue, it's not a ignorance issue and using ignorance as an excuse leaves you very vulnerable. Unless the cheater understands it is a character issue and works on it there is a potential to cheat again. The only reason for being faithful is because it is the right thing to do. It's not for love, it's not because it hurts a person, though those are good reasons but they all have the potential to be transient. The ultimate reason needs to be because it's wrong to make a vow and then break it.
> 
> ...


My wife cheated and did not hide it.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> @Youngwife1000 - how are you doing? Hope you're OK.
> 
> (Weekends were weird for me - during the week we had a far more developed routine, so it was easy to just coast along on that. But the weekends are much more ad-libbed - either putting on a brave face (for kids/family/friends) or trying hard to keep something functional going with my husband. We'd be having these incredibly stressful conversations and then have to take the dog to the vet for his shots.)


 @Mizzbak, thank you for asking. It's been a very up and down one. It's half term here in England so the kids are around, like you said in moments I just have quest burning not knowing if they are going to hurt more or help. I ask anyway. We've had a couple of days out with the kids and I see this man being a great father and gentle and it in one sense is lovely to seee how nothing has changed for them but then I catch myself watching him without him knowing and then the intense pain washes over me and my heart just breaks again and again, that this man my entire world choose to go and seek sexual acts out 7 times with men. It's just so shattering. Then I think well it could of been an affair with 1 women of several months were they had full intercourse several times plus kissed and cuddled and shared feelings etc, that feels awful. So in one sense I'm back to the, well at least it was just physical 15 minutes of whatever. But he still choose to go back. I don't know it just replays over and over in my head. My sleep is my rest from it, I open my eyes each morning then a few seconds in reality hits like a brick and I've often thought I just don't want to wake up to do this another day. I'm so so sad on the inside, I'm sad for everything I thought I had, I've never been so in love and felt so safe in my entire life, it's all just gone and I feel none of this anymore. He's constantly telling me he loves me and how sorry he is, but his words just bounce off me and hold no value. I find it hard to respond with I love you too, because a month a go I loved him entirely like my very person was alive because of him. Now I know I love him but I know I'm not in love with him. 
I'm praying so hard that this will not be forever. I'm just still so scared and wonder often if I'm actually doing the right thing. I know people have said I'll be in a better place to make that decision at around 6 months in. So I'm going to do the Mc and I've taken back my working out up a level and hopefully become more mentally less dependent on him to emotionally sustain me. This almost feels like I'm shutting down from him. I just want to be in a place where he can't hurt me ever again and deserve a place in my life. Yet this process is just so incredibly sad, that I'm trying to find an armour of sorts to protect myself from the very person I'm supposed to be able to be most vulnerable around. Writing this through blurry eyes and a heavy heart. I'm clinging on to one normal moment to the next, desperately hoping that each day has more normal moments, whatever normal is now I don't know. What I do know is choosing to live with a man that crushed every inch of me is the hardest thing I've had to do. Any encouragement welcome.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000

I remember those first couple of months after d-day all too well. Being exactly where you are, just hoping to get through one hour at a time. What you will find to be amazing is that your husband doesn't have it come to mind as often as you. My wife was the same way, it just doesn't register to them as it does when you are the betrayed spouse. My MC had me write down each time the affair came to mind from when I woke until I went to bed again. Each little check mark meant the affair invaded my mind. 

What we discovered by doing this is that the affair was on my mind every ten minutes. When my wife saw the sheet of paper she was devastated, my pain completely felt by her. She cried most of that night, and the following day, just repeating I'm so sorry over and over. I'm not saying this is how every person who cheats behaves, but very few truly understand what they have done to their spouse. 

For me to get through these days I had to focus on me, my healing. Work on the marriage became a secondary thought, I had to heal me first. As you begin to heal yourself you can begin to make decisions that will impact your life heavily. This is why I say to wait six months before making a decision. You want your decisions to be informed and not a knee jerk reaction. This also allows you to see if your spouse is even capable of reconciliation should you be leaning that direction. 

Remember that reconciliation is a process, a long and difficult process. I believe it is possible to be happily married after infidelity, providing the wayward spouse is able to. While reconciling you will also be mourning for your old marriage. Infidelity has killed your marriage and you will then be building a new marriage. 

I wish you the best of luck in moving forward, and that you heal yourself to a better you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> My wife cheated and did not hide it.


And you're telling me she didn't know it would hurt you or was it just out of anger?


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@drifting on, thank you for your response, it's so encouraging to hear from those ahead of the journey and with positive advice, honestly it can really settle a busy mind. I appreciate it.x


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @drifting on, thank you for your response, it's so encouraging to hear from those ahead of the journey and with positive advice, honestly it can really settle a busy mind. I appreciate it.x




As I've said before, I know the inner turmoil, the devastation, the not knowing where to turn or even what to do. Your thoughts are racing and emotions on a roller coaster. I look back and have to wonder how I made it through, but you do. Just remember to breathe, focus on things you need to do today. Don't really look to much further ahead, at moment you just need to do today. Simple every day tasks will sometimes seem insurmountable so focus on the now and not the later. Tell your husband of you trigger, allow him to feel your pain. Allow him to see the turmoil his actions and choices have done. Best of luck.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Drifting On*
> For me to get through these days I had to focus on me, my healing. Work on the marriage became a secondary thought, I had to heal me first. As you begin to heal yourself you can begin to make decisions that will impact your life heavily


This is so very important and worth repeating a hundred times.
Drifting On has managed to get better with his horiffic situation so *I would take his advice and ACT on it!*

The tendency of a BS is to work on the marriage as the very top priority. Remember, when you work on the marriage you can only control and change one person; that person is you! *Nothing will get better without the BS getting stronger and to start healing*.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> As I've said before, I know the inner turmoil, the devastation, the not knowing where to turn or even what to do. Your thoughts are racing and emotions on a roller coaster. I look back and have to wonder how I made it through, but you do. Just remember to breathe, focus on things you need to do today. Don't really look to much further ahead, at moment you just need to do today. Simple every day tasks will sometimes seem insurmountable so focus on the now and not the later. Tell your husband of you trigger, allow him to feel your pain. Allow him to see the turmoil his actions and choices have done. Best of luck.


Today I have spoken to a counsellor who's going to help us through stuff, my husbands actions he believes is due to a sex addiction and will require individual help for him, he said that angelina jolie could share be his wife and he'd still of done it. He also said it actually not even the end result as in the sexual act that tends to feed a sex addict more the excitement of the chase and organisation is when the chemical is realised in the brain those hormones are what he's buzzing off. Plus so much more info, I feel a little more enlightened, not in a pain free way but in knowledge if that makes sense. I'm going to have one on one with him also,he said not in a therapy way as I've done nothing wrong but in a way that aids trauma victims. He said in around 3 months he will then look at Mc but now is not the time. So now I feel there is a plan in sight it's a little less hazie just grabbing on to anything. Expensive but an investment I guess. Husband is willing an seems excepting of said sex addiction issue and wants to start asap. So I guess i should take some positive from that. X


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> And your telling me she didn't know it would hurt you or was it just out of anger?


She really thought that because she told me in advance that she was going to have an affair that her honest approach would mean that I wouldn't be hurt!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> She really thought that because she told me in advance that she was going to have an affair that her honest approach would mean that I wouldn't be hurt!


Some sort of personality disorder or something? Asperger's?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Today I have spoken to a counsellor who's going to help us through stuff, my husbands actions he believes is due to a sex addiction and will require individual help for him, he said that angelina jolie could share be his wife and he'd still of done it. He also said it actually not even the end result as in the sexual act that tends to feed a sex addict more the excitement of the chase and organisation is when the chemical is realised in the brain those hormones are what he's buzzing off. Plus so much more info, I feel a little more enlightened, not in a pain free way but in knowledge if that makes sense. I'm going to have one on one with him also,he said not in a therapy way as I've done nothing wrong but in a way that aids trauma victims. He said in around 3 months he will then look at Mc but now is not the time. So now I feel there is a plan in sight it's a little less hazie just grabbing on to anything. Expensive but an investment I guess. Husband is willing an seems excepting of said sex addiction issue and wants to start asap. So I guess i should take some positive from that. X


You might want to look into this book for betrayed partners of sex addicts: https://www.amazon.com/Facing-Heart...steps+to+recovery+for+partners+of+sex+addicts
This actually looks like a really good book.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I find myself so saddened while reading of all these incredible painful stories of betrayal. Suffering from depression certainly makes me extra empathetic to the pain of others and it just has me feeling out of sorts. Know that my thoughts and prayers are with all of us who have bonded through our pain. Certainly, forgiveness is a challenging road. 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Some sort of personality disorder or something? Asperger's?


Diagnosed with High Functioning Asperger"s.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Today I have spoken to a counsellor who's going to help us through stuff, my husbands actions he believes is due to a sex addiction and will require individual help for him, he said that angelina jolie could share be his wife and he'd still of done it. He also said it actually not even the end result as in the sexual act that tends to feed a sex addict more the excitement of the chase and organisation is when the chemical is realised in the brain those hormones are what he's buzzing off. Plus so much more info, I feel a little more enlightened, not in a pain free way but in knowledge if that makes sense. I'm going to have one on one with him also,he said not in a therapy way as I've done nothing wrong but in a way that aids trauma victims. He said in around 3 months he will then look at Mc but now is not the time. So now I feel there is a plan in sight it's a little less hazie just grabbing on to anything. Expensive but an investment I guess. Husband is willing an seems excepting of said sex addiction issue and wants to start asap. So I guess i should take some positive from that. X




Youngwife1000

I'm not quite clear if the counsellor diagnosed him as a sex addict or if that is what your husband believes he has. Whatever the case your husband will need to have IC to come to the root of his issues in why he seeks sex with others. Unfortunately, his position is that he needs IC and also needs to make you feel safe. So in a way he will do both working in himself and the marriage at the same time. Your husband needs to understand that how he applies himself to the marriage and himself is how you will decide on divorce or reconciliation. I'm understanding of where your husband is at with his thoughts, but because of his actions, he will need to do both at the same time.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Diagnosed with High Functioning Asperger"s.


Yep, only way it made sense. The lack of understanding of how that would affect you, it had to be. I would suspect 40% of WS suffer from kind of mental illness. At least the more cruel ones. This is one of the things that needs to be determined before R is attempted. Is the WS really emotionally capable of having a successful marriage. Do they have the emotional ability or are they emotionally disabled. It's a real thing and you can both be motivated but if the WS suffers from mental illness it may still not work.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> This is so very important and worth repeating a hundred times.
> Drifting On has managed to get better with his horiffic situation so *I would take his advice and ACT on it!*
> 
> The tendency of a BS is to work on the marriage as the very top priority. Remember, when you work on the marriage you can only control and change one person; that person is you! *Nothing will get better without the BS getting stronger and to start healing*.




Thank you for the kind words Mr. Blunt, I appreciate them. Something I haven't really shared regarding my reconciliation is when you know you will be ok no matter what you decide, a calming peace seems to take effect. When I learned I would be ok, I was able to make better decisions. My racing thoughts began to dissipate at a rapid pace, but then something took over my heart. I am at a loss as to how to explain this, but at one point my therapist had said it didn't appear that my heart was in it anymore. What I came to find out is that it became a choice for me again, and that brought me the calming peace I searched so hard for. I worked so hard on myself, I self reflected until I was emotionally exhausted, I thought I had given all of myself into my healing that I could give no more. Yet that calming peace escaped me.

Finding out I would be ok, well that meant I was healthy, with additional work to do. I finally realized that calming peace was because I was choosing to love my wife again. I will always have a place in my heart for my wife, I will always have a love for her, but this is different. I now choose to love my wife each day, which has caused me to be more in love with her than I previously was. Something to be careful of is that while you feel that calm that you don't become distant and appear that your heart isn't in it anymore. I have come to realize I coasted some while enjoying that calm I had searched for. I don't know if this has happened to others, I can only speak for myself, but while enjoying the calm I'm now being more vulnerable. 

I hope that I have conveyed this in a way others can understand. I as a difficult time trying to put into words how I have felt.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She really thought that because she told me in advance that she was going to have an affair that her honest approach would mean that I wouldn't be hurt!


Hey Matt, just curious if you were to tell her the same thing how do you think she would have taken it? do you think she would have been good with that and not felt hurt in any way because you would have been upfront with her?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Hey Matt, just curious if you were to tell her the same thing how do you think she would have taken it? do you think she would have been good with that and not felt hurt in any way because you would have been upfront with her?



She understood and forgave my own stupid revenge affair, so the answer to your question would probably be yes. And she has said several times she wouldn't mind me having an affair. I have declined her offer, by the way.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Ups and downs... Still less than a year of R. Still working the damages out of my head. Other life issues are a pain.

Cool thing is... I forgot the 1yr anniversary when I threw her out of the apartment (actually. I refused to let her enter)... So that's a good thing.

Trust is better daily, usually.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Thank you for the kind words Mr. Blunt, I appreciate them. Something I haven't really shared regarding my reconciliation is when you know you will be ok no matter what you decide, a calming peace seems to take effect. When I learned I would be ok, I was able to make better decisions.


I found this with what I went through too. As most of you know I didn't R. But I suffered afterwords just the same. I know it wasn't as bad as DO by any stretch. (I say that as I am sure someone will point this out.) Anyway this was one of the things I had to come to terms with to be able to have a trusting stable relationship again. Without the nagging fear. I think understanding that my emotional safety even self worth should not be dependent on anyone's love of me put me in a much stronger position to choose a good mate. I was no longer making decisions out of fear. This should be the goal of everyone no matter if they have been cheated on or not. It also makes you a much better mate because you are not afraid to ask for what you need and hold your partner accountable. As everyone occasionally loses track of how there actions affect others. 

I think this fear is the driving force behind so many people who are co-dependent. I think kids from broken homes are especially disposed to having this fear. I know it was one of my issues. I think it explains why a lot of codependent people end up with the narcissist they do. It's the fear that lets them settle and put up with little abuses that someone who doesn't operate out of fear wouldn't. Unfortunately I also think this is the reason why so many people in these kind of unhealthy relationships choose to continue in them, even when they are being or have been treated horribly. Whenever you talk about this @drifting on it always gives me hope for you. This is probably one of the most difficult things that some of us have to overcome. I hate to see this the most when I read these threads. Probably because I can identify with it. I was making choices in mates out of fear before I overcame this thinking. I was the child of divorce thinking this way. Being the KISA and setting up covert contracts because I was afraid to just go for what I really should expect as the most basic qualities in a mate. 

I can also say as someone who went through a potentially life threatening trauma (that story is on here in some of my posts, threatened at gunpoint, it's a long story) that the sense of racing thoughts, panic, fear, just the basic lack of control of your own emotions are exactly the same. Part of the suffering is really feeling like you have lost control of your own mind. Part of getting better was accepting that, I didn't have control of my emotions. I got to a point where I would have to just ride my emotions and even bodily responses and say, yep this is not real so you are going to just have to wait this out. The more I did that the shorter the spells were to the point where they just became memories that gave me sharp pain but only for a second or two. The feeling were exactly the same.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She understood and forgave my own stupid revenge affair, so the answer to your question would probably be yes. And she has said several times she wouldn't mind me having an affair. I have declined her offer, by the way.


Do you think on some level she wants you to have an affair so as to justify her having another affair? or for some other reason....she seem to be someone who can technically separate sex from emotions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Do you think on some level she wants you to have an affair so as to justify her having another affair? or for some other reason....she seem to be someone who can technically separate sex from emotions.


It is because we rarely make love due to her health issues and she thought it was a solution to the problem.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I found this with what I went through too. As most of you know I didn't R. But I suffered afterwords just the same. I know it wasn't as bad as DO by any stretch. (I say that as I am sure someone will point this out.) Anyway this was one of the things I had to come to terms with to be able to have a trusting stable relationship again. Without the nagging fear. I think understanding that my emotional safety even self worth should not be dependent on anyone's love of me put me in a much stronger position to choose a good mate. I was no longer making decisions out of fear. This should be the goal of everyone no matter if they have been cheated on or not. It also makes you a much better mate because you are not afraid to ask for what you need and hold your partner accountable. As everyone occasionally loses track of how there actions affect others.
> 
> I think this fear is the driving force behind so many people who are co-dependent. I think kids from broken homes are especially disposed to having this fear. I know it was one of my issues. I think it explains why a lot of codependent people end up with the narcissist they do. It's the fear that lets them settle and put up with little abuses that someone who doesn't operate out of fear wouldn't. Unfortunately I also think this is the reason why so many people in these kind of unhealthy relationships choose to continue in them, even when they are being or have been treated horribly. Whenever you talk about this @drifting on it always gives me hope for you. This is probably one of the most difficult things that some of us have to overcome. I hate to see this the most when I read these threads. Probably because I can identify with it. I was making choices in mates out of fear before I overcame this thinking. I was the child of divorce thinking this way. Being the KISA and setting up covert contracts because I was afraid to just go for what I really should expect as the most basic qualities in a mate.
> 
> I can also say as someone who went through a potentially life threatening trauma (that story is on here in some of my posts, threatened at gunpoint, it's a long story) that the sense of racing thoughts, panic, fear, just the basic lack of control of your own emotions are exactly the same. Part of the suffering is really feeling like you have lost control of your own mind. Part of getting better was accepting that, I didn't have control of my emotions. I got to a point where I would have to just ride my emotions and even bodily responses and say, yep this is not real so you are going to just have to wait this out. The more I did that the shorter the spells were to the point where they just became memories that gave me sharp pain but only for a second or two. The feeling were exactly the same.




I thank you for really putting into words what I was trying to convey. We all have gone through pain in our lives, and although we may have different approaches or tactics, the bottom line is being a healthy person. I know the pain I felt with infidelity, you have felt that pain twice, I try not to view as who's s pain is greater or who's story is worse. Pain is pain that we have all felt, the key is how a betrayed spouse or a wayward spouse reacts to that pain. For you that pain as a child had to be devastating, you are still basically learning coping skills when infidelity invaded your life. The second time infidelity struck you, the pain was felt but I think you had an action plan that you implemented. I can see where you are coming from when speaking about reconciliation, and I respect your views on the subject. 

As for codependency, it's a cancer that kills any relationship that was once good. I remember soon after d-day in MC, my wife had said it was every girls dream to be their mans everything. Our therapist who was also female had said she understood exactly what my wife was saying. I waited for their discussion to end and said I needed to say a few words about that. I began to say that if I'm my wife's everything then we are codependent, that will then end this marriage when adding the infidelity. Instead, my wife should be happier when I am healthy and know when I will be ok with or without the marriage. For if I am her everything then her happiness will be dependent on me. Mine and my wife's happiness needs to come from within ourselves, not the other. So in reality my wife should find me more attractive or living in that I will be fine either way. The same would apply to me. My therapist thought for a moment, said nobody had ever said it like this before. But each person in the marriage must be their own person, and together they make sacrifices for the marriage to thrive. 

Thank you for your response @sokillme!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Drifting On
> Thank you for the kind words Mr. Blunt, I appreciate them. Something I haven't really shared regarding my reconciliation is when you know you will be ok no matter what you decide, a calming peace seems to take effect. When I learned I would be ok, I was able to make better decisions. My racing thoughts began to dissipate at a rapid pace, but then something took over my heart. I am at a loss as to how to explain this, but at one point my therapist had said it didn't appear that my heart was in it anymore. What I came to find out is that it became a choice for me again, and that brought me the calming peace I searched so hard for. I worked so hard on myself, I self reflected until I was emotionally exhausted, I thought I had given all of myself into my healing that I could give no more. Yet that calming peace escaped me.
> 
> Finding out I would be ok, well that meant I was healthy, with additional work to do. I finally realized that calming peace was because I was choosing to love my wife again. I will always have a place in my heart for my wife, I will always have a love for her, but this is different. I now choose to love my wife each day, which has caused me to be more in love with her than I previously was. Something to be careful of is that while you feel that calm that you don't become distant and appear that your heart isn't in it anymore. I have come to realize I coasted some while enjoying that calm I had searched for. I don't know if this has happened to others, I can only speak for myself, but while enjoying the calm I'm now being more vulnerable.


I hope that I have conveyed this in a way others can understand. I as a difficult time trying to put into words how I have felt. 


I am trying to understand your post. Here is what I got so far

1	Working on yourself is a FIRST step in improving, is healthy, and yet you have more work to do

2	Making choices each day to be vulnerable and love again is the second step


*Drifting On, am I getting a better understanding of your posts?*


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> I hope that I have conveyed this in a way others can understand. I as a difficult time trying to put into words how I have felt.
> 
> 
> I am trying to understand your post. Here is what I got so far
> ...





You are perfectly clear. It was a couple of weeks ago that the feeling of a calm and peace came over me. So that is three years past d-day, it has taken this long as I have left nothing unturned, I wanted this reconciliation to work by going through everything. It is now that this enjoyable feeling has come, I had to choose each day to be vulnerable and love her. Just having a love for someone isn't enough, you have to be in love also, and that took time as we worked through everything. My situation is a little different then most, that being paternity, but that also made our reconciliation longer. That level of deception had to be combed through very slowly and accurately. 

Imagine I go through reconciliation, we appear to be doing well then something about the boys comes up that I can't accept. Such as my wife and OM PLANNED the pregnancy, there is not a moment in life that I could accept that. Therefore the deception surrounding the paternity was carefully discussed, scrutinized, and dissected to the point I am confident to move forward. That's why we go slow, I need to be healthy to move forward.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Mr.Blunt, yes you have to first get healthy, and yes I have more work to do to be the best possible me. I am far from perfect, but I am improving myself and learning to be a better person and father. Of course I want to be the best I can be, when infidelity struck me I was knocked down repeatedly, that won't happen again. My emotional tool box is stuffed with coping skills to keep me healthy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> You are perfectly clear. It was a couple of weeks ago that the feeling of a calm and peace came over me. So that is three years past d-day, it has taken this long as I have left nothing unturned, I wanted this reconciliation to work by going through everything. It is now that this enjoyable feeling has come, I had to choose each day to be vulnerable and love her. Just having a love for someone isn't enough, you have to be in love also, and that took time as we worked through everything. My situation is a little different then most, that being paternity, but that also made our reconciliation longer. That level of deception had to be combed through very slowly and accurately.
> 
> Imagine I go through reconciliation, we appear to be doing well then something about the boys comes up that I can't accept. Such as my wife and OM PLANNED the pregnancy, there is not a moment in life that I could accept that. Therefore the deception surrounding the paternity was carefully discussed, scrutinized, and dissected to the point I am confident to move forward. That's why we go slow, I need to be healthy to move forward.


Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, no one deserves that kind of sacrifice. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, no one deserves that kind of sacrifice. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.




I couldn't be here if she weren't working as hard as she is. We are taught that Jesus forgives, but I won't kid you, I worry about her time on the chair of atonement with Jesus.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted* by sokillme*
> Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, *no one deserves that kind of sacrifice*. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.


Christianity calls for enormous strength from its followers and is not a faith for the selfish but a faith of giving based in part on strength. Sokillme, you are so right when you said “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” However, *Christianity has a form of love and sacrifice that is extremely rare and that form is called grace, an act that is not based on what you deserve*. One of the most powerful verses on the Christian Bible is below:

*Ephesians 2:8-9	
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.*

That kind of grace is what is encouraged in the Christian faith and goes against some of the human logic and some of the world system. Grace is a very great calling for the BS and also very hard to accept and you see that with people that have committed infidelity/betrayal (WS) and have a hard time accepting forgiveness of themselves and the forgiveness from the BS.

Sokillme, I am not telling you and others this so that you think that I am some great Christian. I am telling you this because it seems that Drifting-on is attempting to, or has given, his wife grace. If that is what Drifting-on is doing then I take my hat off to him as he has done something that I would not do.

In the Christian world some have defined mercy and grace like this:
Mercy is NOT giving a person what they fully deserve
*Grace is GIVING a person what they do not deserve*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> Christianity calls for enormous strength from its followers and is not a faith for the selfish but a faith of giving based in part on strength. Sokillme, you are so right when you said “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” However, *Christianity has a form of love and sacrifice that is extremely rare and that form is called grace, an act that is not based on what you deserve*. One of the most powerful verses on the Christian Bible is below:
> 
> *Ephesians 2:8-9
> 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.*
> ...


I really don't like to have religious conversations on here for a few reason. Partly because I don't want to chase away people who need help and the point of the board is not about proselytizing. Also because I don't think I am the greatest example, especially when it comes to this subject. I am much more an old testament kind of guy when it comes to adultery. But I will for this post because I had actually come to some of the same thinking, so if you are not interested in a religious theosophical discussion bear with me. I actually had this exact thought the other day thinking about his story, he is a very good picture of Christ love for the sinner. I get it. I would not agree that this is necessary or required to stay married though like some Christians would, but that is a side note. And if it was required then it wouldn't be Grace anyway. But I digress. 

Drifting on I am gonna be a little harsh in these next comments, not about you but about your situation, so forgive me and don't read it if you think it will offend you as I have nothing but respect for your sacrifice, but as I have told you before I have very mixed feelings about your situation. Yours is the most disturbing of all the stories on here, not just for what happened but also for how you had handled it. How much admiration I have for your strength and sacrifice but also how much it pains me to see you do it. 

So anyway I see this story as a good picture of Christ too, however this insight was not the happy thought for me you might think and how it probably is for you. I led to a lot of dissonance for me. Being the type of Christian who always loves the idea of the freely given gift of salvation and understanding this story as the picture of grace, it's interesting to me that I find no joy or positive from this story at all, though I do respect his sacrifice. I can only see this story as a tragedy. If they go on to have 50 wonderful years together I would still think it is a tragedy, because he had to suffer such an indignity and she debased herself so. The imbalance of justice is too much for me. So this leads me to my another difficult thought. Is the story of salvation really a tragedy? Maybe it is. Now that is an whole other discussion for another board. 

But even more disturbing for me was my next thought. So if he is like Christ then we are his wife in this analogy. Boy that's some cold water. 

One thing this story has done for me though has given me a clear understanding of what sin and our separation from God must be like for God. It's is much more profound then eating an apple when you think of it this way. I am not a Creationist in the sense that I think the creation story in the old testament is God's allegorical way of telling finite man about himself and creation. (let there be light) sounds like the big bang to me, so forth. Anyway the apple thing never really got me emotionally, but thinking of it this way really hits home. God was like the working man who does everything for is wife, and 'man' was like the wife who goes out and screws (I really want to use the F word because it gets better at what it was but I won't as I might offend) screws her coworker because he was texting her how hot she is. Ouch.

Now to really get dark, just when you thought I couldn't get darker. Even now as I think of it this way, if I were Jesus, I would have been like nope, I'm out. Then just ascend after laying waste to the whole planet. That's not right. Gonna need to do some praying about that. Maybe it's cause man is the only date in town. Kidding. Anyway see what I mean about not being the best example. Still better then the women who posted on here today basically using Corinthians as a commandment from God to this abused wife that she must let her husband rape her. Talk about bad testimony. 

Anyway pray for me. >


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@drifting on, it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @drifting on, it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.





Ah, the surreal feeling, I remember this, the moment you know the affair happened but you are in a state of complete disbelief. You walk around with your pain and can't process the fact that your spouse cheated. Sorry to say this, but the pain will get more intense. I'm not trying to diminish any hope you have, but instead to prepare you for what lies ahead. I don't know if you have felt anger yet, but that is also coming. After anger will come rage, a rage you have never felt before, it is very intense and powerful. 

I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off. I can't speak for a wayward spouse, but going through MC you will find yourself questioning to reconcile or divorce. What you feel today you won't feel tomorrow. In my opinion it's a brutal roller coaster ride. 

For your sake I hope you do have enough to reconcile. You will learn very early on the amount of work and commitment you will have to put forth. This isn't for the weak, it's a long process that has no shortcuts. Best of luck to you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Youngwife1000 said:


> it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.


Is this counselor a certified sex addiction therapist, or is the one he's sending your husband to one? Because 'sex addiction' is all the rage right now, and many counselors are quick to label someone with it when it isn't true. My husband is a sex addict and attends a 12 step group - the fact he does so diligently is a huge plus as far as I am concerned. I'd be worried if he ever said he thinks he doesn't need it any more or just quit going. Anyway, beware of this diagnosis, and beware of your husband - or his counselor - using it as an excuse.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

drifting on said:


> I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted *by sokillme*
> I really don't like to have religious conversations on here for a few reasons. Partly because I don't want to chase away people who need help and the point of the board is not about proselytizing.


Sokillme, you are a guy that seems to like “harsh” conversation and since I am Mr. Blunt I will respond like you like it. Contrary to your insinuation that faith chases away people that need help,* some people get help from their faith with infidelity.* I do not think this board bans speech about Christianity. 

Secondly, your statement of “the point of the board is not about proselytizing” makes you look like a hypocrite. Why? Because you did a lot of your “religious theosophical discussion” with your post. My post was answering your statement of “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” and Drifting-On’s actions in dealing with infidelity which was not proselytizing.



> By sokillme
> Being the type of Christian who always loves the idea of the freely given gift of salvation and understanding this story as the picture of grace, it's interesting to me that* I find no joy or positive from this story at all*.


You just preached against a few of the most basic doctrines of the Christian faith with your statement above. You state that the gift of salvation and grace gives no joy and is not positive.* Is that proselytizing your beliefs?*

Sokillme, the title of this thread is “Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation” *For some, Drifting-on and his actions in dealing with reconciliation is definitely support for reconciliation as is the faith of grace.
*


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off.


 @Youngwife1000 - I agree completely with drifting here. I think that a lot of BS's may not see the need to go to IC. (After all, they're not the ones who clearly have issues to resolve, right?) IC in this case is not necessarily about "fixing" something, although I believe that we all need fixing in one way or another. 

The reality is that the rollercoaster is unpredictable and has no mercy. It will hit you hardest on your worst days, when you are already down. You'll think that things are getting better, but then it comes around again. The demons don't care that you already defeated them once. Being betrayed by the person you are closest to - the one you share your heart and dreams with, is not something that you just brush off. You will need somone who can help you process all that - and decide what to do to, and how to do it. My therapist spent the first 6 sessions or so just helping me understand why - why I wanted to reconcile, why I wanted to divorce, why I believed my husband's desire for reconciliation was genuine, why I thought I could never believe in him or us again. And we've had some of those conversations all over again in one shape or another since then. 

Don't underestimate the value of an objective, professional ear. All the emotions we feel are real, but many of them can be managed more easily by understanding why we have them. I'm pretty introspective, but I certainly did not have the ability to do that by myself. I am several months from D-Day and I am still seeing my therapist. I urge you, and any BS spouse, to please find a decent IC. If you don't have access to one or can't afford one, then you need to make another plan (religious support etc.) - but I do believe that reconciliation is not something that you should DIY. (Also toilets - but my reasons there are a bit different.) 

One final thing - effective IC is a chemistry thing. Some approaches and therapists work for some people and not for others. There is absoluely nothing wrong in trying another therapist if you don't feel like you're getting anywhere with your first one.

Re-reading this - I think perhaps I come across a little militant and preachy. Sorry about that. But, I'm still going to post it. As much as we may want to, we can't give you what you really need right now. Sympathy and advice is just not going to cut it. Thoughts and hugs with you, Youngwife. Drifting has said that it will get worse, and it will. But it will also get better, and more importantly, you will get stronger too.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@Hope1964 , the counsellor is a member of ATSAC here, so yes he's PST trained. My mind is still a muddle of emotions, each day I'm just trying to focus my thoughts. I just don't know what lays ahead, I'm still living in the moment. I'm nervous of the future still.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Ah, the surreal feeling, I remember this, the moment you know the affair happened but you are in a state of complete disbelief. You walk around with your pain and can't process the fact that your spouse cheated. Sorry to say this, but the pain will get more intense. I'm not trying to diminish any hope you have, but instead to prepare you for what lies ahead. I don't know if you have felt anger yet, but that is also coming. After anger will come rage, a rage you have never felt before, it is very intense and powerful.
> 
> I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off. I can't speak for a wayward spouse, but going through MC you will find yourself questioning to reconcile or divorce. What you feel today you won't feel tomorrow. In my opinion it's a brutal roller coaster ride.
> 
> For your sake I hope you do have enough to reconcile. You will learn very early on the amount of work and commitment you will have to put forth. This isn't for the weak, it's a long process that has no shortcuts. Best of luck to you.


Thank you for your response, the pain is intensifying but almost morphing into different things from hour to hour. Yes I've felt anger and still do, I'm angry at his timing, our baby was 8 weeks old, and I needed my husband. Although I obviously didn't know so it didn't effect me then, just the thought of it makes me angry and rage now. I'm angry that I could be so stupid to think that he was the man of my dreams, I've literally never loved like I loved him. Im angry that he met for sexual pleasure 7 times and was still having regular sex with me. The thought of him naked with those people and them stroking and touching him rips at me every hour of every day. The rage turns to pain, I don't vent it at him, it's not in me to do so, rage is an ugly trait to display and although I feel it I won't display, I find myself full of cocky remarks that I say in my head, like did you manage to get through today without some guy sucking your ****. However I never utter a word. Believe me the anger and rage well in me a lot but fall as tears. Sometimes I want to tap out, but just don't have the strength. Everyday I feel a little more distant as I work on my own strength, I go out running now, my time I will be seeing a therapist my own. I feel myself shutting down to build myself up. I've recovered from trauma before and I know I can do it again. I just don't know what this recovery looks like. It's a scary place I find myself in. I want to be whole again and I want to keep my marriage but it feels like I'm shutting down from him.Is this normal? I'm literally in no mans land. Yesterday morning I just needed to hold him, so I lay cuddling him as the tears fell silently down my cheeks. It makes no sense.😔


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @Hope1964 , the counsellor is a member of ATSAC here, so yes he's PST trained. My mind is still a muddle of emotions, each day I'm just trying to focus my thoughts. I just don't know what lays ahead, I'm still living in the moment. I'm nervous of the future still.


I don't know what PST training is, but good. And of course you're nervous. IC will do you a world of good - it sure did for me.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Thank you for your response, the pain is intensifying but almost morphing into different things from hour to hour. Yes I've felt anger and still do, I'm angry at his timing, our baby was 8 weeks old, and I needed my husband. Although I obviously didn't know so it didn't effect me then, just the thought of it makes me angry and rage now. I'm angry that I could be so stupid to think that he was the man of my dreams, I've literally never loved like I loved him. Im angry that he met for sexual pleasure 7 times and was still having regular sex with me. The thought of him naked with those people and them stroking and touching him rips at me every hour of every day. The rage turns to pain, I don't vent it at him, it's not in me to do so, rage is an ugly trait to display and although I feel it I won't display, I find myself full of cocky remarks that I say in my head, like did you manage to get through today without some guy sucking your ****. However I never utter a word. Believe me the anger and rage well in me a lot but fall as tears. Sometimes I want to tap out, but just don't have the strength. Everyday I feel a little more distant as I work on my own strength, I go out running now, my time I will be seeing a therapist my own. I feel myself shutting down to build myself up. I've recovered from trauma before and I know I can do it again. I just don't know what this recovery looks like. It's a scary place I find myself in. I want to be whole again and I want to keep my marriage but it feels like I'm shutting down from him.Is this normal? I'm literally in no mans land. Yesterday morning I just needed to hold him, so I lay cuddling him as the tears fell silently down my cheeks. It makes no sense.&#55357;&#56852;




Youngwife1000

What you are feeling here is completely normal, in fact I felt the same way. What I have written about infidelity is the pain I have felt, sometimes I wonder if me posting is even helpful. Telling someone of the pain and difficulties that lay ahead have made me feel as if I am a deterrent to marriage and reconciliation. I post this way for a number of reasons, and I should probably tell you why I post this way. Writing for me is cathartic, I can allow the pain to dissipate some by acknowledging the pain and releasing it through writing. The pitfalls and difficulties of reconciliation I write about so others are maybe more informed of what lies ahead. I sincerely hope my posts don't have someone fear reconciliation, but instead are aware of what one will encounter on your journey through. 

Sometimes I post from a very sarcastic position, this is usually due pain I feel from a thread. Instead of being supportive or helpful I post an angry/sarcastic version of pain. With this being said, and only a few reasons why I post, my main objective is to simply help people the way posters have helped me. Youngwife1000, this journey will certainly test you, emotionally draining, and make you think you can't move forward. However, if you give all of yourself to this, I have no doubts that you will become a far better person. IC in my opinion is a must, no exceptions, as you need to get back to a healthy state for yourself. By doing this, you will eventually begin to feel empowered, you will become a much stronger person then you ever thought imaginable. 

Your post above in my opinion screams that you are in need of IC. Understand you are not crazy in any way, you actually fit the description of a person diagnosed with PTSD. That should not be a scary diagnosis but rather a diagnosis that comes with relief. You have been dealt a serious blow to your brain, and every process the brain has is now changed. It will go back to its old way of functioning again, but IC gives you tools to change yourself to better cope with the trauma. Your pain, anger, sadness, disbelief, confusion, happiness, rage, love, fear, humiliation, and a host of other emotions will be fleeting. Your racing thoughts and possible struggles to stay focused in a conversation will dissipate after time. During this time I survived day by day, then hour by hour, then minute by minute, but the telling part is that I survived. You will also survive, you will use tools from IC to help you place one foot in front of the other. It's exhausting, and I wanted to tap out on many occasions, but again, I survived. 

With any luck you realize I am cheering for you to make it, but it is you that needs to do the work involved. I have credited my MC with saving my life, but reality is that she provided tools for me to save myself with. I did the hard work, MC gave me resources in which to do it successfully. For you it will be the same way, it's you that does the hard work and you that becomes stronger. You can do this youngwife1000 stay the course and start IC as soon as you can. I think you should also keep posting, this is a great way to gain knowledge about infidelity. You also get to write to others that full understand what you feel, and that is a blessing that is very supportive. Stay strong and God bless.


ETA: do not continue to suppress your anger/rage, your husband needs to see and feel what you are feeling.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I couldn't be here if she weren't working as hard as she is. We are taught that Jesus forgives, but I won't kid you, I worry about her time on the chair of atonement with Jesus.



My wife and I did a study of Paul together and found solace there. It was after that that we both felt comfortable sharing our testimony with friends, family and multiple groups of Christians.

Some Kay Arthur might be helpful too. https://youtu.be/M4mll_Z1TPM


As a betrayed husband seeking to recover your marriage, shame, remorse and regret are nice, initially, and good outward signs of repentance; however, you don't want to forever be married to someone living in that hole. At some point, after forgiveness, it becomes about restoration and sanctification. Reconciliation, to me, is about building each other back up after a traumatic and hurtful {soul crushing} experience. Those that continue to treat their repentant former wayward spouses as dogs, are the ones that, more often than not, get bit again.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Quality said:


> My wife and I did a study of Paul together and found solace there. It was after that that we both felt comfortable sharing our testimony with friends, family and multiple groups of Christians.
> 
> Some Kay Arthur might be helpful too. https://youtu.be/M4mll_Z1TPM
> 
> ...




I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I have supported my wife and her healing with infidelity as well. Truth is, I can give her all the support in the world, but only my wife can forgive herself, and this is proving to be difficult for her. As much pain as I went through, my wife has also had pain to endure. Will be she be wounded for life? I think she will carry scars and have painful reminders, as will I, it's just that the scars and pain have come from different causes for us both.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

So - I have issues about managing my triggers and negative thoughts and how /whether I share them with my husband. I am aware that he feels deep guilt and shame over his decisions and actions. He does not harp on this, but I do see positive evidence of his state of mind. When I have a trigger, do I continue to share this with him or not? I think that this is relevant to the previous comments on this thread about supporting our spouses, and allowing them to heal and work at forgiving themselves. 

I think about the affairs and consequences several times a day - it is getting better, but I am a long way from not thinking about it all. In the past few months, if my husband was around, I would tell him about these thoughts. But I know that when I do that, it makes him feel like crap. Please note that he is being as supportive as I could ask for in this. (I think that he has twice in 8 months asked for us to not have a specific conversation at that time, both times when he was exhausted. Both times we had the discussion later.) He has not asked me to stop, but I've been thinking about whether my sharing these things with him is still constructive. 

When we rugswept his first affair, I responded to both of our clear preferences to just pretend that it never happened by hardly ever bringing it up. After the first few weeks, I was not open about the pain and disillusionment that I continued to feel - and that lack of honesty extended to myself as well. Which means that this time round, I had consciously decided to talk as honestly and openly to him as I could. My motives are complicated - he is my best friend and if anyone else had hurt me, I'd be talking to him about it. The fact that he is the one that has hurt me doesn't change my need to do that. At some level, I also want him to understand my pain as fully as possible. It isn't about wanting to hurt or punish him - I certainly don't feel better because he feels worse. But I do know that he won't ask me to stop because he feels he needs to be there for me, in whichever way I need.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

maritalloneliness said:


> I find myself so saddened while reading of all these incredible painful stories of betrayal. Suffering from depression certainly makes me extra empathetic to the pain of others and it just has me feeling out of sorts. Know that my thoughts and prayers are with all of us who have bonded through our pain. Certainly, forgiveness is a challenging road.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


maritalloneliness, I recently had the kind of depression that left me without much emotion at all. It felt very safe - inasmuch as I had any feelings at all. But it was the most distant I have ever been from anybody. Feeling sadness as I do now is much more intrinsically painful. But it does feel very real and knowing that other people have felt and are feeling it as well, makes it much less lonely. So I am glad that we are here together. Not that any of us is specifically here ... but just that none of us are here alone. 

Today I am sad because I realised that I subconsciously had a dream about what my marriage would be like post-"whatever this process is". That it would be clean and shiny and wonderfully new - with all the doubt and sorrow and resentment washed away. But, I'm starting to realise that it isn't going to be like that at all. That that was just a dream, and that the reality will be much more battered and scarred... and real. And like opening up a gift and realising that I should actually be very grateful for the enormously practical and useful whatever-it-is, maybe I'm just mourning the death of my illusions. Maybe this is just me growing up. (I'm getting old to be doing that.) Maybe everybody eventually hits the ground and those of us who go through it this way, just hit it harder. But again, I am glad that I have the company of others.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Mizzbak said:


> So - I have issues about managing my triggers and negative thoughts and how /whether I share them with my husband. I am aware that he feels deep guilt and shame over his decisions and actions. He does not harp on this, but I do see positive evidence of his state of mind. When I have a trigger, do I continue to share this with him or not? I think that this is relevant to the previous comments on this thread about supporting our spouses, and allowing them to heal and work at forgiving themselves.
> 
> I think about the affairs and consequences several times a day - it is getting better, but I am a long way from not thinking about it all. In the past few months, if my husband was around, I would tell him about these thoughts. But I know that when I do that, it makes him feel like crap. Please note that he is being as supportive as I could ask for in this. (I think that he has twice in 8 months asked for us to not have a specific conversation at that time, both times when he was exhausted. Both times we had the discussion later.) He has not asked me to stop, but I've been thinking about whether my sharing these things with him is still constructive.
> 
> When we rugswept his first affair, I responded to both of our clear preferences to just pretend that it never happened by hardly ever bringing it up. After the first few weeks, I was not open about the pain and disillusionment that I continued to feel - and that lack of honesty extended to myself as well. Which means that this time round, I had consciously decided to talk as honestly and openly to him as I could. My motives are complicated - he is my best friend and if anyone else had hurt me, I'd be talking to him about it. The fact that he is the one that has hurt me doesn't change my need to do that. At some level, I also want him to understand my pain as fully as possible. It isn't about wanting to hurt or punish him - I certainly don't feel better because he feels worse. But I do know that he won't ask me to stop because he feels he needs to be there for me, in whichever way I need.


oh hell no dear...I would make sure he hears every single word and painful moment you are having, spare him of nothing, you didnt have a say in any of this and didnt deserve it......dont ever shoulder your pain alone!!! have you been to therapy?? this was one of the first things my therapist told me, my WW was responsible for doing everything possible to help me heal.....period. If you keep things to yourself you will just build up resentment that will show up sometime later, guaranteed.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

It's been almost a year since d day. She exhibits very strong narc/bpd traits. I was promised the world if I didn't divorce her, and looking back now I feel extremely short changed. Once I agreed to try and reconcile, she went back to being her dismissive, deflecting, no accountability self. My little daughter is my world, and it's amazing how much crap you'll put up with when your babies are everything. I survive my adulteress by being as civil as I can without being a doormat, which narcs are constantly testing. I have an exit plan, although long term, it gives me something to look forward to. 

Honestly, I don't love my wife anymore. I was expected to just get over what she did. I have to constantly remind her that being a lowlife cheater isn't something I take responsibility for, again isn't something a narc likes to hear. 

I've learned to enjoy my own company and I invest as much time as I can with my sweet little girl.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> Sokillme, you are a guy that seems to like “harsh” conversation and since I am Mr. Blunt I will respond like you like it. Contrary to your insinuation that faith chases away people that need help,* some people get help from their faith with infidelity.* I do not think this board bans speech about Christianity.
> 
> Secondly, your statement of “the point of the board is not about proselytizing” makes you look like a hypocrite. Why? Because you did a lot of your “religious theosophical discussion” with your post. My post was answering your statement of “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” and Drifting-On’s actions in dealing with infidelity which was not proselytizing.
> 
> ...


I added the preference in the beginning of my post to point out that I was going to be doing the very thing I don't really like to do. That was the point of the first paragraph. Does that make me a hypocrite if I apologize before I do it. Maybe?

You are right I am sure some people are attracted to faith talk. What is right for you may not be right for me. We are both entitled to our own styles. My point was not to criticize you for your post but to talk about why I don't post that way. For me I really don't come on this board to have talks about Christianity or doctrine or any of that except in rare circumstances. I just am not very comfortable with it in this context, that is only me stating how I feel for myself. The point being that for the next post I was going to do something I don't normally do. That's all, no criticism intended. 

Continuing down that vain, I don't know why you see my response post as an attack on yours. I actually pretty much completely agree with your take. I suspect that maybe you couldn't tell my sense of discomfort with the whole thing or more so my discomfort with my own reaction to it. You are right there is a giant disconnect between my thoughts on salvation and my thoughts on drifting on. One reason I am sure is that drifting on is not God. In a sense I think God is big enough to take it. D.O. shouldn't have to. But still..

Nothing in my post was an attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking, in fact I thought it was quite somber. I don't even know if I want to think the way I do about this. My thoughts on salvation in the context of D.O.'s story bring me no joy, but I am honest enough to admit that I don't like that in the sense that the thought of salvation outside of D.O.'s story does. That is a difficult dichotomy to resolve. Again in a sense that our betrayal to God was very much similar to D.O.'s wife to him, which is quite eye opening, as it has been a while since I have felt man's betrayal of God so viscerally. I don't like it, but I can't deny it.

I suggest you re-read my post not as a rebuttal to yours but as a man dealing with what agreeing with your post means for him and his hatred of infidelity and the context of original sin and salvation. There really was nothing personally directed at you at all, but think of me how you wish.

Quality I know what you are thinking. Shut up..


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> It's been almost a year since d day. She exhibits very strong narc/bpd traits. I was promised the world if I didn't divorce her, and looking back now I feel extremely short changed. Once I agreed to try and reconcile, she went back to being her dismissive, deflecting, no accountability self. My little daughter is my world, and it's amazing how much crap you'll put up with when your babies are everything. I survive my adulteress by being as civil as I can without being a doormat, which narcs are constantly testing. I have an exit plan, although long term, it gives me something to look forward to.
> 
> Honestly, I don't love my wife anymore. I was expected to just get over what she did. I have to constantly remind her that being a lowlife cheater isn't something I take responsibility for, again isn't something a narc likes to hear.
> 
> I've learned to enjoy my own company and I invest as much time as I can with my sweet little girl.


Why do you pause then? Time is something you can never recover.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Why do you pause then? Time is something you can never recover.


Because I love my daughter more than my own life. 
I'm also not an easy target for the narcopath so she will set her sights on my 2 year old. If she's in my house I can keep an eye on what goes on and handle it. 

This is also a big reason why I went and got snipped.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sokillme*
> I suggest you re-read my post not as a rebuttal to yours but as a man dealing with what agreeing with your post means for him and his hatred of infidelity and the context of original sin and salvation.


SKM, I have reread your posts and think that the heart of your issue is as you have stated below



> *By Sokillme*
> I can only see this story as a tragedy. If they go on to have 50 wonderful years together I would still think it is a tragedy, because he had to suffer such an indignity and she debased herself so. *The imbalance of justice is too much for me*




You are more interested in the justice part of Drifting On’s story than the grace. I get you on that point as my tendency is to do the same. However, I respect and think that grace is a higher level of dealing with infidelity and life. Grace is contrary to my observation of the way mankind thinks. We just celebrated Easter; WHY?. Because many have hope in the grace that the Christian faith presents. Who in their right mind is going to give up their innocent son to be tortured to death in crucifixion so that others can get rid of their guilt? NOBODY… IMO! That is a much higher level of true love!

I have already told you that I would not do what drifting on have done but I do admire him and he is an inspiration to those that believe in grace. Just because I will not do what D.O. has done does not mean that I do not strive to get to that point. *If you are going to reconcile then I think that Grace is very important for many.*

Now back to the purpose of this thread of Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation” and Drifting On. My guess is that D.O. is just like many other BS including me. We hate Infidelity, and suffering for a spouse that betrayed us but want to reconcile when there is true remorse. *Why? …because some may think that R is the best way to handle to the pain, will be better for us in the long run, we still have some love for your spouse, it is best for our children, and we want to strive to follow our faith to name a few.*

My summary at this point is still the same as I have stated below



> Sokillme, the title of this thread is “Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation” For some, Drifting-on and his actions in dealing with reconciliation is definitely support for reconciliation as is the faith of grace.


Sokillme, for whatever it is worth, contrary to what you posted, I do not want you to shut up, and I think that you are struggling with the justice-grace issue but you seem to be very honest and upfront about your thinking. I cannot deny that I choose justice over grace at times but I do believe that grace, if you are going to reconcile, then grace gets you a lot closer to a satisfactory reconciliation


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Religion has been entered into the equation of infidelity by some posters, and I respect the posters views as it pertains to religion. I have posted some regarding religion, said that I am a Christian man, and that I lost my faith when faced with infidelity. During my time of healing I have restored my faith, and in fact now have a stronger belief in God and His son Jesus. With that being said I will try to explain how, why, and when this all occurred to me.

We all have a different perspective of exactly what some proverbs definitions are in the bible. Such as tattoo is mentioned once in the bible, and since it is mentioned specifically, some Christians believe tattooing yourself is a disgrace to God. But if you read the entire section regarding tattoos it does say specifically that the tattoo should not be proclaiming for pagan. So is a tattoo ok or a sin? Again, it's different perspectives that we all perceive about the subject. This is just my example towards tattoos. 

As for grace, I have extended grace to my wife. In my opinion the definition of grace is, an undeserved favor. I did extend grace to my wife, I did struggle with justice, but ultimately justice is carried out by Jesus. I have struggled with capital punishment in recent years also, because I firmly believed in it, but who is to say we execute someone because of a law? I have said many times that justice will escape me in regards to my wife's act of infidelity. It will forever escape me as it is Jesus who will render justice, it's not in my power to do so. If I live according to Gods will then I am left with two choices, divorce or grace. According to the bible I am allowed to divorce because of my wife's infidelity. Mary and Joseph were actually run out of town and Mary was suspected of cheating. Allegedly Mary and Joseph did divorce when they arrived at their new town but I don't remember enough to know that for sure. 

For a long time I believed in the first testament, and currently believe in the second testament. In the first testament stoning was the punishment, in the second anyone who hadn't sinned may cast a stone. No stones were cast and Jesus told her to go and sin no more. I wasn't perfect, I cast stones in my marriage, so I needed to fix my half of the marriage.

Just after d-day I lost my faith, no longer believed in God or Jesus. I couldn't fathom how God or Jesus could allow this to happen in the world. After some time I realized that Jesus gives us free will, and with that free will we are to live according to God. Some of us do as we still continue to sin, but we try to the best of ability to live to his will. Some don't, they sin with the free will they have been given, and usually not atone for their actions. My wife is trying to atone for her actions, and as I've said before, I fear her time on the chair of atonement with Jesus. 

My faith has come back in many ways, I have leaned on religion to help me get through. At times it's not easy, other times are good. When I became healthier my faith became stronger, the point I'm at now is I no longer seek justice. I'll leave that to God to sort out, but it doesn't mean I won't still sin and mess with the OM in the ways that I do. Is it wrong, maybe, but God will hand me that justice when I meet Him. 
@Solillme and @MRBlunt have had a very calm and rational discussion with religion. I respect them both for the ways that each have posted in this thread. Each have their opinion of whether I should or should not have extended grace, I can see both sides of the discussion. Reconciliation for me was my best option, I have changed so much in many ways for the better. I have become a much healthier person and just recently have felt peace and happiness that I haven't felt for some time. 

I hope this can help this thread for anyone who comes to it looking for answers while trying to put their life back together.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

Hey guys, just checking in to clear my head and share my last week. To be honest it's ho unable to smile or be happy most of the time. It feels like a constant sadness has settled home in me. It's very lonel. I see other happy couples, holding hands or just being normal and it feels so far away for me. I'm not operating very well in positivity at the moment either, I'm finding it hard to believe I could ever feel anything else but the way I do right now. Is this normal? Does it go away?
I view my husband so differently now, I no longer feel any rush of love for him, I love him I'm sure but I'm not in love anymore. I find it hard to maintain eye contact, I just don't want to, I force myself sometimes but I just think thoughts like...... you are the biggest nastiest, most conniving individual that's given me the greatest trauma I can barely tolerate. So I avoid his eyes in fear of anger. The anger is with me most days now, I'm so angry that he did this and he repeatedly did so many times. That I was fighting so hard to make our alone time extra sexy and precious on top of being everything else I needed to be in the home and he still 7 times went behind my back to get satisfaction. I cuts me like a knife most days most hours. I hate the way his life is just dandy and he feels no hurt. I hate myself for being so stupid to think that he was a genuine guy the genuinely loved me and what we had was amazing. But most of all I hate they way he so happily lived with himself and happily played the good husband, in fact he's the biggest prick around. I'm sorry for venting but it's still so real to me. Will this angry and hate subside? He appears remorseful but it also appeared a distant husband so I find it hard. He's starting IC on his own, like me too.
We've had our first joint one, it's was so hard as talking about it just refreshing the images of him having orgasms with men. It hurts so intensely. I don't actually think he realises.
I often think about going out and having revenge sex, I know this would be easy to do, just because I want to have sex with someone I'm not hurting by. Also to show him how it feels. I haven't because despite my venting I do love him and I'm trying to hold on to my faith. But it's constantly lingering in my mind as an option just to feel human attractive and wanted. Is this normal. 
I literally hate my life, it feel such a burden. I'm constantly thing he's looking for ways to cheat on me again, or get some blond to sick his **** quickly just so he can gleefully come home and lie to my face again. It's horrible. I feel no hope. The therapist said that our marriage is for sure recoverable and I can heal and he can deal with my husbands sex addiction, but right now it feels so far away. My days are filled with anger and hate that swing from one to the other and if neither of those are present I'm numb, lonely and in constant heartache. Please someone tell me I can do this. Please someone say I can fall in love with my husband again. I just hope no one comes and offers to fix my brokenness and hold my heart, it would be hard not to give in. 
Please hear, I want my marriage but I needed to ask have you all Been through the same ?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Hey guys, just checking in to clear my head and share my last week. To be honest it's ho unable to smile or be happy most of the time. It feels like a constant sadness has settled home in me. It's very lonel. I see other happy couples, holding hands or just being normal and it feels so far away for me. I'm not operating very well in positivity at the moment either, I'm finding it hard to believe I could ever feel anything else but the way I do right now. Is this normal? Does it go away?
> I view my husband so differently now, I no longer feel any rush of love for him, I love him I'm sure but I'm not in love anymore. I find it hard to maintain eye contact, I just don't want to, I force myself sometimes but I just think thoughts like...... you are the biggest nastiest, most conniving individual that's given me the greatest trauma I can barely tolerate. So I avoid his eyes in fear of anger. The anger is with me most days now, I'm so angry that he did this and he repeatedly did so many times. That I was fighting so hard to make our alone time extra sexy and precious on top of being everything else I needed to be in the home and he still 7 times went behind my back to get satisfaction. I cuts me like a knife most days most hours. I hate the way his life is just dandy and he feels no hurt. I hate myself for being so stupid to think that he was a genuine guy the genuinely loved me and what we had was amazing. But most of all I hate they way he so happily lived with himself and happily played the good husband, in fact he's the biggest prick around. I'm sorry for venting but it's still so real to me. Will this angry and hate subside? He appears remorseful but it also appeared a distant husband so I find it hard. He's starting IC on his own, like me too.
> We've had our first joint one, it's was so hard as talking about it just refreshing the images of him having orgasms with men. It hurts so intensely. I don't actually think he realises.
> I often think about going out and having revenge sex, I know this would be easy to do, just because I want to have sex with someone I'm not hurting by. Also to show him how it feels. I haven't because despite my venting I do love him and I'm trying to hold on to my faith. But it's constantly lingering in my mind as an option just to feel human attractive and wanted. Is this normal.
> ...




What you are feeling is completely normal, and it takes time as your brain is slowly allowing you to feel the pain from infidelity. Initially you are in shock, your brain places you in a state of shock to protect. The brain further protects you by placing you from shock into disbelief. Currently your brain is protecting you with anger, and sorry to say but, after anger is pure rage. So my opinion is that you are perfectly normal, and your emotions will swing wildly from one extreme to another. 

As for your pain and sadness, normal, as for your love for your husband, normal. At times I did not feel in love with my wife, this was in the beginning just after d-day. It's definitely a very difficult time to go through, but it will change. I'm not going to tell you it gets easier, this depends on your husband and your personal growth in individual therapy. I say your husband is included because if he is very remorseful and begins to feel your pain. Be careful though, even if the wayward is very remorseful sometimes the betrayed still can't get past the affair. This is why I say to heal yourself, don't work on the marriage just yet, let your husband do that, but you need to get to a healthier position first. I say to wait six months before making a decision that impacts your life on such a grand scale. 

Everything you have described is normal, just take one day at a time or even an hour at a time. Talk to your IC, tell the therapist where you stuggle most and begin to work on that. You will make it even though you do not think you can. You are much stronger then you have ever known, and that strength will help you through. Just keep moving forward, occupy your time and surround yourself with friends. You can do this youngwife, stay strong and God bless.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000

How are you doing?


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000

I hope that you don't feel so alone - there are far, far too many of us. As drifting says, the things that you are going through are part of you processing what has happened to you. I think that our minds deal with pain and hurt by breaking it up into bite-size chunks. As though we only allow ourselves to process what we can deal with at that specific time. I decided that the more numb I felt, the less able I was to cope, so my mind was protecting me. Then, when I was feeling the greatest anger/pain, I must actually be quite strong underneath it all. I'm not usually an excessively emotional person - so for me, the emotional cycling (angry-sad-numb-furious-angry-sad-numb-more sad-furious ... and repeat) was exhausting. I hadn't felt at the mercy of my emotions like that since being pregnant, maybe even since being a teenager (and that was years ago). Therapy helped me a lot to process and control those emotions. But I probably went for at least 4 or 5 sessions before I began to feel that I was getting anywhere. I still had the emotions afterwards (and still feel them now sometimes), but after that, I felt more like I was watching a storm at sea from a safe harbour. Rather than trying to keep my head above water in the middle of the sea in that same storm. 

What I battled with most was the feeling that the love that I had for my husband was slowly and systematically being dismantled by some automatic mechanism inside me. It scared me - even more than feeling so angry, that feeling that my love was slowly being eroded away as the hurt caught up with me. Because if it went away, then what would be the point of going through all this pain? I'll be honest and say that the only "cure" that I found for that was opening myself up to my husband again. Showing my vulnerability to him. That time was all about me - we'd talk and then he'd hold me. Not sex, but he'd just hold me, as if trying to absorb some of my pain. When I talked to him, it was about my hurt; and I could see that my pain was impacting on him. When I saw the sorrow, the shame, it made me feel that he was standing there next to me, weathering it with me. And that made me see him differently. Yes, I hated what he did, but he was showing me that he wanted and needed to be next to me (even if that was an excruciatingly uncomfortable place for him). I gave up on trying to be polite. I was honest with him about what I was feeling. And I cried on him a lot. But I did notice that when I closed myself off from him, that feeling of the love dying was almost palpable. 

Thoughts of a revenge affair? Yes, I thought about it. I think the thing that stopped me more than anything else was that I wanted it to mean something. My husband had a strong emotional component to his affair. So, if it was only sex, then it wouldn't be hurting him as much as he had hurt me. Then I'd have to pick someone ... and I wouldn't want them to be emotionally involved, because the whole point was to hurt my husband. Which meant that another man couldn't matter to me. I was pretty sure that the OW's husband would have been willing to do anything to hurt my husband, but at that point, my sense of self-preservation stepped in. I suppose, I'd say that when it came to this, my analysis paralysis lasted long enough to get me to knowing that it was a really bad idea, especially for my self esteem. I didn't want to let my husband's bad choices make me into someone that I am not. 

As drifting has said - focus on you right now. On what your needs are. The pain doesn't last forever, no matter how it feels at this moment. Work on deciding what you want and need. And then when the time is right, you can put your mind to whatever it is that you decide you want. I agree that you don't need to decide that you want to stay married right now. That's a huge commitment when you are feeling as you are right now. What you can decide is to tread water for a bit and get your breath back. Little steps.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@Mizzback @drifting on
I'm massively devastated now.... I asked my husband to be on his phone less this last weekend as it's really not helping me heal and feeding my paranoia. He reacted really really badly, started an argument then calling me names and insulting me. It was so painful ever harsh word against me a stab wound. It turned to rage, after all the infidelity and then this abuse.,..... I punched him. 
He then tried to kick me out onto the street, I refused for a while then submitted and started packing, he then changed his mind and said he'd go. We spent that night in separate rooms, I lay for hours sobbing and praying he would change his mind and his reaction was of his subconscious guilt, he went out drinking until the early hours. The next day I barely saw him. I prayed with a friend that he would come to me again. He didn't, that night he went out to the pub again. I was crushed. In the morning I woke with our baby and went into his room. I lay beside him desperately wanting him to hold me tight, tell me he loves me and we can work it out. He didn't he lay limp and distant. He went to the shower, I looked on his iPad and saw lots of sexy messages to a women he'd met only the night before, he hadn't slept with her but was arranging it. My world came crashing down, he said in his we were separated and he could have sex with whom he pleased now, he said he didn't love me, and he was leaving and never coming home. Through out yesterday he repeatedly told me how he doesn't love me or want me. I feel like he's ripped my soul to pieces. I love him so so so much it's killing me. I can't begin to imagine my life without him.
This girl I've since found out is a coke addict and a home wrecker, she has multiple partners and an all round sleaze bag, to make matters worse she has multiple sexual diseases. My friend is the sexual health nurse. I know my husband has a sex addiction but this women is vile. I know he's planning if not already had sec with her and it's torturous to me. The images of him with her are horrible. I love him so much.
So anyway he's gone, and I'm no longer able to try and save my marriage, he's left me, I have no idea how to put myself back together. I'm broken 😢😢


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Youngwife1000

I'm so sorry for your husbands reactions and his further actions that are causing you pain. Implement the 180, you need to begin to detach from the man you thought you married. If he is with someone who has known diseases then don't have sex with him. Your husband isn't remorseful for his previous actions, which is why he is seeking sex from anyone. Ultimately he has to own his ****, which apparently is something he is unable to do. 

I suggest you see a lawyer and file for divorce, no matter how much you love him, only one person trying to repair the marriage won't work. Reconciliation is some of the most difficult work I've done, some days it can bring you to your knees, others it can show glimpses of how good it can be. The truth is, you need strength you never knew you had, and your husband reacting in this way shows he isn't strong enough. 

Focus on your recovery and the kids, focus on therapy. This isn't easy, but you will make it through. I don't have much advice about divorcing, seeing as I reconciled, but I will try to help you make it. Feel free to pm me anytime if you need to. I pray you feel strength to carry you through each day.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Youngwife1000 -has anyone ever told you what a great name that is?  - It is you and your baby, now.

See a lawyer and ask about divorce, child custody and the like.

You and your baby will be in my prayers. And your husband, too. Because he needs help.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> @Youngwife1000
> 
> I'm so sorry for your husbands reactions and his further actions that are causing you pain. Implement the 180, you need to begin to detach from the man you thought you married. If he is with someone who has known diseases then don't have sex with him. Your husband isn't remorseful for his previous actions, which is why he is seeking sex from anyone. Ultimately he has to own his ****, which apparently is something he is unable to do.
> 
> ...


It's hard as today, after I posted he said he's such an idiot and doesn't understand his own actions. He said he's sorry for all my pain and he hates seeing me broken, he said he loved us all. I find this very confusing. It's the first time I've seen him this remorseful. He didn't meet the lady for sex and has blocked all contact with her. I'm very confused by him this afternoon. I'm still however now applying the 180, I'm too scared not too now.
Sucks and very confusing. X
Thank you for your response and advice, massively helpful as always x


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> It's hard as today, after I posted he said he's such an idiot and doesn't understand his own actions. He said he's sorry for all my pain and he hates seeing me broken, he said he loved us all. I find this very confusing. It's the first time I've seen him this remorseful. He didn't meet the lady for sex and has blocked all contact with her. I'm very confused by him this afternoon. I'm still however now applying the 180, I'm too scared not too now.
> Sucks and very confusing. X
> Thank you for your response and advice, massively helpful as always x




I kind of hate saying this, but the wayward spouse is also feeling pain, riding the emotional roller coaster, and reacting out of fear, fear of losing all they had. With that said, you still need to file for divorce and speak with a lawyer, remorseful does not call you names and seek out a new sexual partner. I'll add more later today but you do need to get that appointment with a lawyer and file. You can stop the divorce if you feel the need.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> @Youngwife1000 -has anyone ever told you what a great name that is?  - It is you and your baby, now.
> 
> See a lawyer and ask about divorce, child custody and the like.
> 
> You and your baby will be in my prayers. And your husband, too. Because he needs help.


I love my name, I bet someone really great choose it. 
I have 6 children, my eldest 19 and youngest 10 months. I was married before for10 years, he was abusive and after 10years I had to get out for my children sake. I healed and then married my current or now ex husband. We had two of our own. Yes he needs help desperately, he's a mess right now. I told him tonight I forgive him, for him but also for me to move on in forgiveness. I need to do what drifting on said and apply 180. It's hard but while he maintains he's not in love with me reconciliation will never work. 
Here in England divorce isn't a huge deal just yet. I can apply on infidelity and it will be granted, we will sort out the contact and child support at the same time. I'm not ready to do that yet though. That's for the future when it's less painful. 
I appreciate all prayers at the moment, thank you.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000

Oh, special person - I am so very, very sorry. Sometimes life is just so unbelievably crap. I agree with drifting - your husband is too weak right now to be what he needs to be for you. I am sure that his awful behaviour is mostly about being unable to face himself, and he is running away in the only way he knows - the stupid, stupid man. Until he finds the courage to turn around and see himself for what he is, you shouldn't allow him in your life as your husband. You definitely need to see a lawyer. You can always stop a divorce, but you do need to start distancing yourself from him. It just isn't fair right now for you to have to bear any of his burdens as well. And you need the stability of knowing where you are and who you can rely on to begin healing. Are you seeing your therapist again soon? Mine has said that I can call her if I have an emergency - maybe yours has the same? 

It's funny (in a dark and morbid way) - tonight my husband and I had our weekly MC. He told me that he came very close to walking away from me late last year because he didn't know if he could be strong enough - to confront both my pain and anger and his shame and guilt. He said it was the hardest thing he'd ever done. I hadn't really thought about it quite like that before. 

Applying the 180 will allow you to start building a life that doesn't need your husband in it for you to be happy. And right now, that seems like the best decision that you can make. Courage and strength and many, many thoughts to you. Try and sleep well tonight.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> SKM, I have reread your posts and think that the heart of your issue is as you have stated below
> 
> [/B]
> 
> ...


I am sorry for the delay I didn't see this until today. I think you have me pegged accept to say I think grace is better, I think grace is what gives me hope in God, yet the disconnect in this situation is hard for me. Maybe it's because it is from human to human, and not human to God. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe. Contrary to what some people think I have great respect for the love that Drifting On has shown for his kids. I even respect the mercy he has show to his wife. It just pains me that he has received such a raw deal. 

Also I feel that a great many BS stay because of fear. I wish we would would spend more time helping them to overcome their fear so they could make more logical and less emotional decisions. I think I would be less strident on here if there was more voices to the fact that there is just as much hope in divorce, sometimes more so. 

All I can give is my own experience. I can think about my ex (not my wife so I know it's not exactly the same) but ex she was and I was ready to commit my life to her and had though she didn't except before I caught her. I can think about that all day long and I don't feel one ounce of pain. I feel no differently then how I feel about when I feel of my bike and had a mild concussion a few years back (no jokes). It's just something that happened. 

As soon as I fell in love with someone else that moment lost all it's power for me. Because the thing that held it power was my love for her. Once I that love was given to another the power was broken. When I read people who over years and decades still feel this endless pain I think it's sad. It really doesn't have to be that way. So many people seem trapped because they are afraid the will never love again. It's not true.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I am sorry for the delay I didn't see this until today. I think you have me pegged accept to say I think grace is better, I think grace is what gives me hope in God, yet the disconnect in this situation is hard for me. Maybe it's because it is from human to human, and not human to God. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe. Contrary to what some people think I have great respect for the love that Drifting On has shown for his kids. I even respect the mercy he has show to his wife. It just pains me that he has received such a raw deal.
> 
> Also I feel that a great many BS stay because of fear. I wish we would would spend more time helping them to overcome their fear so they could make more logical and less emotional decisions. I think I would be less strident on here if there was more voices to the fact that there is just as much hope in divorce, sometimes more so.
> 
> ...




A great post @sokillme, I agree that there is hope in both divorce and reconciliation. All individuals are different, so reconciliation may prove to be an unwise choice, just as divorce may be an unwise choice. Over three years from d-day my pain is considerably less and the pain I sometimes do feel isn't sharp or piercing, that pain also quickly fades to sadness. But what keeps me moving forward is knowing I'm a much healthier person now, I'm much stronger, and I have brought myself to be the best me possible. I can't make any guarantees that my wife will cheat again, I can make any guarantees she won't cheat again, but I know this, I will be ok if I divorce. It's coming to this point in your healing that I have accepted the affair, I have accepted the paternity of the boys, and I have accepted my healing process to be healthier. 

Many of us speak about karma, I have said I wasn't always a good person. I am guilty of transgressions towards others, I have flaws, and many years ago I changed. When infidelity struck my marriage j needed to change again. I wasn't the perfect husband before infidelity also, I realize and have accepted the changes I need to make to get to where I am today. Was karma for when I was young and transgressed against others? Was karma for being a less then perfect husband before the affair? Karma seems to come without prejudice, and karma sometimes comes to you without a label. Therefore I accept the karma that has come to me, and that karma ignited me to become a healthier person. I'm not saying I'm at fault in any way for the affair, that is owned by my wife, but the karma that has come my way I accept. 

As for grace, perhaps I have given or shown grace to my wife. My wife has shown or given me grace during our marriage also, simply put, we have both transgressed on each other. Has she transgressed on me more often then I, have I transgressed more on her, in marriage it's not about keeping score. Marriage is making sacrifices, sacrifices for your spouse and the marriage itself. One can't have everything they want, one must find a solution that best fits himself/herself and the marriage. These acts are done with grace, kindness, and love for the spouse and the marriage. I was once told that, what you put into a marriage is what you get out of the marriage, I think this rings true.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000, I've been thinking a lot about you. Hope that you're doing OK.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

I cant agree more DO, i think the large majority of people vastly underestimate the level of commitment they are signing up to when they marry, is truly incredible work to remain married for 40-60 years.

Think about that, staying deeply bonded in love to a totally different person like you with all their flaws and yours. Heck even parents and their sons, daughters cant get along for that long. I think is a pretty incredible feat to make it to even 20yrs w/o enduring some significant challenges and remain happily together. 
I think people dont often sit down and take all that in, in truly understanding what being married means, i certaibly didnt grasp it when i married at 25yo

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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I cant agree more DO, i think the large majority of people vastly underestimate the level of commitment they are signing up to when they marry, is truly incredible work to remain married for 40-60 years.
> 
> Think about that, staying deeply bonded in love to a totally different person like you with all their flaws and yours. Heck even parents and their sons, daughters cant get along for that long. I think is a pretty incredible feat to make it to even 20yrs w/o enduring some significant challenges and remain happily together.
> I think people dont often sit down and take all that in, in truly understanding what being married means, i certaibly didnt grasp it when i married at 25yo
> ...




Just like you I didn't grasp the work a marriage truly entailed to remain healthy. Just yesterday was my twenty second anniversary, at dinner my wife said I wasn't talking much. Yesterday was a bad day at work, and although I tried, talking wasn't something I really felt up for. Then I realized I needed to let go of what happened at work, I needed to focus on my wife and I. Conversation then flowed pretty well and my wife gently asked what had happened at work. Talking to my best friend (my wife) was something I should have done from the beginning, and that was a big part in the divide that had formed in our old marrisge. These are exactly the habits you need to prevent from entering your new marriage. 

Communication and vulnerability are so crucial to a marriage. The marriage will not be healthy without these two factors involved heavily. They need to be present at all times, regardless if you don't feel like talking. You can tell your spouse to give you some time, but that should be measured in hours and not days. Get back to the conversation, be vulnerable, and be accepting when your spouse does this to you.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> @Youngwife1000, I've been thinking a lot about you. Hope that you're doing OK.


Thank you, it's been a fairly tough few days. My husband has repeatedly asked to seek help and begin a working on fixing our marriage. So as you can imagine there has been many talks a lot of tears and deeply hurtful conversations. In between that a family trip to celebrate my sons birthday. This actually helped. We both want our marriage and we are both aware of the mountains we face in order just to collect something of a foundation again. Currently he's away on business and this terrifies me but he's doing what he can to reassure me the best he can. 
When he gets back he will be moving back into the family home. Now I guess for me it's just the beginning of a journey that hopefully will be worth the mountains in between. I had my first ic today and it's already helped so I look forward to more.
Reading encouragement is always a strand of hope and a blessing, almost company lol. 
Thank you for your thoughts. X


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Everything you are experiencing and feeling is totally normal, you are not alone by far, if that provides any help.

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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Since this is a support thread for betrayed spouses I'm going to post an update on my story. My wife and I returned today from a one night stay to celebrate our 22nd anniversary. We walked and held hands, and a peaceful feeling came over both of us. The time we had together was truly special, almost like when we were dating. In fact, as I write this I'm not entirely sure my feet are even on the ground, and truthfully I really don't even want to know. This is probably the most happy I've been since d-day, and having this feeling tells me that our reconciliation will be a huge success. 

A successful reconciliation will take hard work, commitment from both spouses, and there are still no guarantees. The point I'm trying to make here, is that it is possible, happiness will return, it's changed, but then again so has your marriage. Your love will change, but so have you yourself, and it can be great again. Believe me when I tell you I've had my doubts, but after this weekend those doubts have been removed. For me this is huge, and certainly happily accepted by my wife and myself.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Mizzbak @Youngwife1000

How are you both doing? I'm hoping you are both doing better, I've been praying and thinking of you both.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> @Mizzbak
> @Youngwife1000
> 
> 
> ...




Hey drifting on, thank you for your prayers. 
I'm functional every day now and only breakdown with triggers. 
It still feel deeply sad for the loss of what I thought my marriage was, I miss my husband, the man I live with now doesn't feel like him. So I'm having to learn to live with the one I've come to discover. It's hard really hard and I often weep alone at night. Just like I said my heart is so sad for the brokenness of it all. 
We are very open and he holds me through my tears, ironic but I still need this. He is patient and sorry. This helps lots. I do feel we aren't as close and both less tactile at times. I miss this also. Intimacy is returning but sometimes needs lots of me controlling negative images. However I'm able to share passion with him, so I'm guessing this is a really positive step in the right direction. He's super busy at work so we haven't had our joint IC yet. Soon though.
I still live every day in fear of it all happening again, this sucks, I can't wait to be free of that. So slowly I guess moving forward. 


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Hi there @drifting on

I'm struggling a little right now because it's coming up for our d-day "anniversary". Last year, my husband's affair was over by now, but he was still living a lie in his relationship with me. It sometimes weighs on my mind that, if it hadn't been for the OW's husband, then I might never have found out the truth. And my marriage could still have a gaping hole in it, leaving me and my family defenceless. My IC therapist has suggested that worrying about dangers that didn't happen is not particularly productive. But late at night, I sometimes still think about this.

More importantly, I am very glad to see how far my husband and I have come. We are very much more honest with each other then we have ever been before, sometimes painfully so. I've written about how uncomfortable this can feel in other threads, but it obviously also has its rewards in our greater intimacy. I have a far better understanding of my husband's feelings for me; and how he feels about what he did. And because of that, I am finding trusting him far easier. If I said that I don't feel that there is currently enough space between us for deceit, would that make sense? I suppose the challenge going forward is to keep that state of intimacy, even as "real life" starts to intrude again. 

I have been struggling with forgiveness - both of my husband and the OW. I made a decision to forgive them both last year, irrespective of the outcome from MC and our attempted reconciliation. It was a mostly selfish decision - in that I didn't want the burden of that anger and pain any longer. But I was being revisited more and more by those strong negative emotions. Recently, we were at the beach with our sons and I was watching them build a sand fort. They also had to make a large sand wall to keep the strongest waves out. It took them a while to figure out that one of them needed to maintain the wall full-time, otherwise everything was jeopardised. As I watched our boys cheerfully building and re-building that wall to protect their fort, I realised that I had misunderstood forgiveness. I had been thinking that it was a one-time thing. That because I had made the decision to forgive, as long as I had done that firmly and sincerely, then that should have been that. But that actually, forgiveness was a constant decision that I had to carry on making. The next day, I found this quote about forgiveness from Niso Tutu, the daughter of one of my favourite "forgivers" , Archbishop Desmond Tutu. She described "forgiveness as an ongoing process. Every day you need to wake up and make the decision to forgive again." I have been thinking on this for several days now, and am far more at peace about this than I was.

@Youngwife1000 , I'm glad that your husband is standing by your side and facing up to what he has done. As I watch my husband now, I am realising how important that part is to healing and regaining trust. I can completely understand you feeling lost and disillusioned and finding it hard to trust him. The fact that you feel distance between you is also normal. For me it was the same, and I think it was because we were both doing a lot of thinking inside our own heads. And it took a while for us to be able to share that with each other. It's very good that you are able to be functional every day. This is something that I battled with for quite a while before I go there. I am very glad that you feel like you are moving forward right now, even if it is slowly. Sometimes slowly is better!

Drifting - I wanted to thank you for your post earlier this month. It was very hopeful-making. In my hurt, I have tended to scoff at being too emotional in my relationship with my husband, right since the first time he hurt me. I am realising that feelings of euphoria, of being in love with our spouse, are gifts that we should nurture and cherish. And thank you for your prayers.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Hey drifting on, thank you for your prayers.
> I'm functional every day now and only breakdown with triggers.
> It still feel deeply sad for the loss of what I thought my marriage was, I miss my husband, the man I live with now doesn't feel like him. So I'm having to learn to live with the one I've come to discover. It's hard really hard and I often weep alone at night. Just like I said my heart is so sad for the brokenness of it all.
> We are very open and he holds me through my tears, ironic but I still need this. He is patient and sorry. This helps lots. I do feel we aren't as close and both less tactile at times. I miss this also. Intimacy is returning but sometimes needs lots of me controlling negative images. However I'm able to share passion with him, so I'm guessing this is a really positive step in the right direction. He's super busy at work so we haven't had our joint IC yet. Soon though.
> ...




Youngwife1000

Mourning your marriage is so very difficult to do, what do you keep, what do you throw away. You get to keep your good memories, you try to forget the bad memories, but the foundation and all the surrounding structure of your marriage is what changes. You now know what your husband is capable of, the cruel act he can and has done to you. Forgive and not forget is how you will move forward, you forgive your husband when you are able too, and that is an unknown amount of time. You never forget what your husband has done to you or your family, but if you've offered your husband forgiveness, you no longer bring infidelity to light. It is not used as a get of jail free card so to speak to win arguments, or to fall back in when you are upset. 

I too wanted to be held by my spouse, and more often wanted her far away from me. It really doesn't make sense at all that you or I wanted too feel contact by the person who just destroyed you, but it works out that way sometimes. Each time my wife held me she would just tell me she loved me, that she couldn't believe what she had done, and that I loved her that much. She would also aplolgize but I asked her to show me that in actions. My wife then showed everything in actions and also gave me words, but the actions showed more then everything. 

Intimacy will return, and it also may fade again as you go through reconciliation. Don't panic or read to much into this, as I think this is normal. Intimacy for me now is very good but there was a time it was also very difficult. I struggled to look my wife in the eyes, I struggled to be affectionate, and sometimes it was going through the motions. What I did was to analyze how I felt intimacy should be valued, and that's hard to do when your spouse just gives it away to someone. Instead you need to talk about what intimacy means to you, your husband as I did to my wife. I learned what she valued from being intimate, and what had her love me more. Example being that when we are intimate she feels a closeness to me that fulfills her. I didn't know this before the affair, but with communication J have learned that this is a way that she feels loved. 

To say you will struggle is an understatement, you are in for some very difficult times and talks. Always remember that you will make it through, you will be ok, and after these times and talks your mind becomes a little bit clearer. If you get overwhelmed or feel you can't make it through then talk to someone. Have them help you through, and for me posting on TAM became invaluable. You can also pm members here who know your pain, and I pm'd quite a few, but it helped immensely.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak said:


> Hi there @drifting on
> 
> I'm struggling a little right now because it's coming up for our d-day "anniversary". Last year, my husband's affair was over by now, but he was still living a lie in his relationship with me. It sometimes weighs on my mind that, if it hadn't been for the OW's husband, then I might never have found out the truth. And my marriage could still have a gaping hole in it, leaving me and my family defenceless. My IC therapist has suggested that worrying about dangers that didn't happen is not particularly productive. But late at night, I sometimes still think about this.
> 
> ...




Mizzbak 

Your d-day date is approaching and I'm reminded by what my therapist had told me, "it's a day in the year with a month and number, no different then any other day". My therapist then asked me why I give this date so much power. I will be honest with you in saying that what my therapist said is very difficult to do, how do you not think about the day you died but remain among the living a devastated and destroyed human being? How is this day not going to flood my memory of the worst act that invaded your marriage? Truthfully, I struggled with this greatly, and even requested my therapist to continually check on me throughout the day. That proved to be of little help as well. Only one person can get you through this day, only one person can divert their thoughts to something else, that one person is you. If you begin to dwell on the date then call a good friend, conversation with someone removes the thoughts from the forefront of your brain. Surround yourself with work, kids, anything to keep you busy enough to prevent the dwelling from happening. Sounds easy I understand, but in reality it is what you need to do as best you can. 

As for forgiveness, this has to come at a time in which you feel you are able to grant this. It is extremely hard to forgive, you have been hurt so deeply that forgiving doesn't seem possible to do. When your heart is ready to forgive you will know, and when you release these feelings it can make you feel much better, but as you said it is something you will do each day. It's not a one time action, and as I have told my wife I forgive her each morning. I don't do this to hold the affair over her head, I do this to move forward, for us to move forward and that she knows exactly how I feel. 

Forgiving the OM or the OW is simply just for you. Harboring feelings of hate and anger is not healthy for someone to do. In fact hating them is an emotion that you still care in a way. Instead you will later come to a feeling of indifference with the OM or OW. It has taken some time for me to come to this point, but I it is wrong of me to still impact his life. I have called his new employer and in two weeks he was dropped from the payroll, but that is my justice, my wanting to intentionally mess with his life. It takes me less then five minutes to print off a standing let and then place it in a mailbox. The cost of the stamp is money well spent in my opinion. My wife's OM knew me, knew she was married, knew he was married himself, and he chose this path as well as my wife. Anyone who knows me knows I will not look the other way, I confronted him twice after d-day, and he knows my position. although I have forgiven OM, I can't lie to you and say if I read his obituary tomorrow I would have a large smile on my face. 

My update a few weeks back had me smiling as I wrote, and that was an intense feeling of happiness. To have this feeling about my marriage and wife took some time to get to, but we did get here. There were tears and pain felt by both of us, we struggled and at times wondered if we would make it. Our marriage is strong at this point and communication moving very smoothly. We have both expressed vulnerability and had some very raw communications as well. This opens you up to each other, and while some discussions are painfully honest, that is what you need to have a good marriage. It's about releasing the fear that you will hurt your spouse, your spouse needs to know all so that resentment does not begin to build inside. It has to be communicated so that you each can explain your reasonings or feelings to each other. Hang in there, keep working towards your new marriage, this isn't impossible.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Mizzbak and @youngwife100, how are you both doing?


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Hi @drifting on and @Youngwife1000

I am on a bit of a plateau in my R journey at the moment. Most days are OK, but sometimes I feel pretty frustrated and angry about things. It is cold here at the moment and I think that perhaps I suffer from a temperature version of SAD. I want to find a rock and lie lizard-like in bright sunshine until I feel warm to my core again! 

For me, dealing with R right now is about trying to find a way to balance two opposing parts of myself. The first part is responding primarily to the danger that the infidelity represents for my marriage and most especially my children. It can be very angry, but at the same its ultimate intention is to try to save my marriage or at the very least, get us to all to a place where we can function effectively as a family - whatever that may mean. So it is constructive and rational in how it sees my relationship with my husband. It sees that seeking revenge serves no purpose, and dwelling on past hurts only increases my current pain. It has hope for the future based on my husband's recent behaviour and growth. And my own growth as person. It is the part of me that is trying to be grown-up, rational and mature about this.

The other part is much, much angrier. It looks inwards to my own value and worth as a person, who did not deserve what was done to me. It is the part that asks how either of them dared to look me in the eye. It demands that there be lasting consequences, that hurt my husband as he has hurt me. Coming out of a depression meant that this second part was very quiet to start with. And this is now no longer the case. I spend a lot of time in my IC sessions talking about my anger. My desire for retribution. At my age, I know that life is not fair. Perhaps this is just self-pity masquerading as righteous anger, but sometimes I find myself resenting my husband so much, for making me the one that has to let go and forgive if we are to move forward. For not being who I thought he was ... or should have been. 

Intellectually I know that he has had to learn to forgive me things as well, and that I am also not who he thought I should have been. And that dealing with the disappointment of that realisation is probably true for many marriages, even ones without infidelity. But sometimes arguing this angry and resentful part of me down can be very tiring. 

After finding out about the true extent of my husband's first affair, I "got over it" in about 6 months. As in, I didn't think about anymore, at all really. It has now been a year now since my second D-day, and I think about the affairs every day. Sometimes far more than that. The optimistic part of me says that this is good sign, that it means I am not rug sweeping and that I will ultimately reach a point of having worked through this all. And because of this, so will my husband. And our marriage can be stronger because of it. A more negative part of me worries that this is actually it. That this will be my marriage forever. This somewhat broken, scarred thing that feels like it can no longer hold joy or laughter like it used to. And then because an up follows a down, my husband and I will have these odd moments of intense honesty, where I feel like we are finally seeing each other in total truth.

So, like I said - some ups and downs, but mostly OK...ish.
:smile2:


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak

I was very angry for a long time, I used this anger to motivate myself forward. I had countless sessions regarding anger, and soon you will find that being angry just takes too much energy. It's a process to work through, another mile of road in reconciliation. 

Retribution or justice, I see it as the same with infidelity. Nobody deserves to be cheated on, and having to work through this is difficult, but you have to remember you chose to reconcile. When you made that choice to reconcile, you are basically stating that you can move past this. That's not to say it's easy, it isn't, especially when justice and retribution begin to enter your mind. I sought justice and retribution also, and then I finally began to understand. What justice of retribution will take your pain away? Your anger away? I couldn't think of anything, so it's my opinion there is no justice or retribution for infidelity. Reconciliation is a gift given by you, it's also grace as you are giving an undeserved favor. This is how I considered my reconciliation, I'm giving my wife a chance with an undeserved favor. 

Your value is determined by you, nobody else. With the changes I have made in myself I my value has increased. I won't accept certain behavior now, I won't accept be cheated on again, if it happens I know I'm worth more then that. I won't stay, I'll pull the plug very quick if she cheats again. They were able to look you in the eye as they didn't mind deceiving you, they were selfish. Ask both of them to look you in the eye now and that look would be completely different. 

Stay the course, with hard work it gets better.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@drifing on and @Mizzbak

Hi, I'm much the same, I've had a very tough week. My husband has had a week off work and the first few days I struggled to feel comfortable with him around. Mainly because it felt like he's a visual reminder of pain. 
I have days were I relive to the best of my knowledge the days and times and journeys he took to meet up with these men, and it tears through my soul that not once in all of it did he stop and think, no, I can't do this. I travel the same roads as he did and have to go through the same village where one of the men live. Each time I think about it, what he looked like his home, their conversation another man sexually pleasing my husband...... I hate it all. 
I'm trying not to let the thoughts settle in my head and try to move them out as quickly as possible but it's just so hard. I just don't understand how he could of done this for so long and lived alongside me. No remorse no shame no care for everything he could loose, I just find it un fathomable, I don't recognise him.
We've had big talks and lots of tears, sometimes he just keeps walking away and doesn't want to talk or recognise my pain, in these times I just want to give up, I don't want to suffer the paranoia anymore, the constant feeling of not being enough.
However sometimes he holds me through the tears and it's a very bitter sweet experience. Some days I just need him to be near me and I crave him so desperately other days I feel he's a walking time bomb and I'm waiting for the next wave to hit.

I just wish someone could show me the future so I could pull the plug now and just focus all my strength and energy into our children or hold on to the hope that it's all going to be ok at some point. 
We've spoken more and he's adamant he's not gay, yes bi but not gay. He says he doesn't want to ever see me in this pain again and wants us too work. Although is understanding that it may not and is saving a few hundred pounds a month invade I call quits. I support him in this.
He says that his reasoning behind his infidelity is that he just wanted to experience more. The thrill of it was why he continued for 6 months. There were no emotional connections with these men just oral sex. So it felt easier for him to live with. 
It sounds so cold to me.
Anyway there are good days, more than before, were we just hold each other enjoy our children and be family, for me I live from one moment to the next line this.
It just feels so incredibly sad, I'm so sad that I wasn't enough, I'm sad I wasn't enough for him to evaluate the risks. I miss my old marriage so so much. I have no trust and I'm constantly paranoid.
I'm exhausted by this most days, I really really don't want my marriage/life to be like this. I'm not the person I was and spend a great deal of time filled with sadness still. 
I love him and I believe he loves me, but sometimes I wonder if I'm fighting for a lost cause and damaging muse further in the process. 
It's so hard and I'm the one that's done nothing wrong.



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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Youngwife1000

I can understand your feelings of not being enough. Much of the first year after d-day I didn't feel like a man. The pain I felt from that was tremendous, I felt I wasn't big enough, strong enough, that I couldn't please her in the bedroom or out. I imagine you may have some similar and different feelings then I did. It takes time to work through this, to process all of it, and then heal. 

Youngwife, you are thinking what I did, and that you need to stop. You are thinking you weren't enough, but you are. Understand this is a flaw within your husband and not you, nothing you did or do caused this flaw. This is your husbands to own solely, this is something I learned when I thought just like you. Work these feelings out within you, remind yourself that this is a flaw of your husband and has no bearing on you. 

Many times I would lay awake at night and watch my wife sleep. Thoughts of how could she do this, was I that bad of a man, that bad as a husband, how can she sleep, how can she sit next to me, how could she kiss me? So many thoughts, my mind would race, I would feel on the verge of a panic attack. Then I would think why can't I sleep, I did nothing wrong, how can she sleep? Infidelity can really mess you up inside, and it takes time to heal. When did all of this go away for me? When I realized I will survive reconciliation or divorce, and that I would be ok regardless. That's when those feelings went away.

At no time should your husband walk away or not discuss what has happened. Only unless agitated or defensive when the communication becomes ineffective. Otherwise he needs to see and feel your pain. This is an action that he is stronger and will remain in front of you to heal. You need to know he will not walk away when you struggle, he will not abandon your love again. That he will not abandon you again.

There is no crystal ball to show you the future, it's called a leap of faith. Believe it or not you have taken this leap before in your life, you just may not realize it. You took this leap of faith when you married, but now you will take the leap knowing your husband is flawed. That's what makes it so difficult this time around, you know his flaws and that he is capable. Now you are faced with a much bigger leap, and trust at an all time low. To rebuild that trust you must be vulnerable to your husband and he to you. If you're not vulnerable trust can't be earned. Your marriage won't work without trust. This is also difficult to you as how your husband reciprocates your vulnerability back to you is so important. If he misteps or tramples on your vulnerability it will bring you severe pain. 

Youngwife, it's extremely hard to reconcile, but I think you can, I also believe you will be happy again also. Best of luck to you, and if you need anything I'll try to help as best I can.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@youngwife

I don't know if you have felt this way too, but this tore me apart. I value intimacy very highly, it is to me the most beautiful expression two people can give to each other. Both spouses give their all when intimate, I was stunned my wife could just give this away. Being intimate is the complete giving of oneself to your spouse, and it hurt deeply she gave that to OM. 

The first time we were intimate after d-day made intimacy very difficult and forever changed. It was like riding a bicycle for the first time in fifty years since you learned how as a kid. You don't forget how, but it is definitely awkward. I felt I wasn't good enough, that she was comparing me to OM, and I was very nervous. It takes some time for you to recover, for your emotions to settle and those inadequate feelings to subside. As time passes you will be able to make love again, you will again feel that special feeling with your spouse. I forgot to mention this in my previous post.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> @youngwife
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you, it's definitely not the same and always on my part a mental battle, sometimes I crave just mindless sex without all the having to quash pain and mental images. However I look forward to the day you speak of.......... boy do I look forward to that !!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Thank you, it's definitely not the same and always on my part a mental battle, sometimes I crave just mindless sex without all the having to quash pain and mental images. However I look forward to the day you speak of.......... boy do I look forward to that !!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It's something you can achieve with hard work from you and your spouse. First step is accepting that intimacy is changed, that's the huge part, after that it's working it out between you both. The mind movies and thoughts clear with time, but you will occasionally get blindsided and feel that gut punch. The mindless just pure crazy sex will return also, the spontaneity also increases. I'm lately feeling so much better of my decision to reconcile. I've grown as a person and that seems to pique my wife more. No longer is she my everything, no longer on the pedestal, instead I'm stronger knowing I'm fine if it works or doesn't. Quite frankly, I feel my wife now knows she has to earn my love and trust, as I must with her. It's no longer just freely given to her. It's a balancing point you both work on to keep the balance just right.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> It's something you can achieve with hard work from you and your spouse. First step is accepting that intimacy is changed, that's the huge part, after that it's working it out between you both. The mind movies and thoughts clear with time, but you will occasionally get blindsided and feel that gut punch. The mindless just pure crazy sex will return also, the spontaneity also increases. I'm lately feeling so much better of my decision to reconcile. I've grown as a person and that seems to pique my wife more. No longer is she my everything, no longer on the pedestal, instead I'm stronger knowing I'm fine if it works or doesn't. Quite frankly, I feel my wife now knows she has to earn my love and trust, as I must with her. It's no longer just freely given to her. It's a balancing point you both work on to keep the balance just right.




Thank you, I'm in need of encouragement, it's such a risk isn't it !


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> Thank you, I'm in need of encouragement, it's such a risk isn't it !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




The risk is considered to be a leap of faith, which you have taken once before, you just didn't see it that way. When your husband asked you to marry him you took that very same leap of faith. You said yes believing that your marriage would endure any and all times that are presented. You actually now have a better insight to your husband then you had when you said yes to marrying him. You now know what he is capable of, and that is your double edged sword. Knowing he is capable of cheating makes you not want to trust, but you trusted before with less knowledge of your husband. I'm not saying to take the leap blindly, I'm saying you now have a better idea of what he is capable of doing. 

When I told my wife I was offering the gift of reconciliation, she fell to the floor crying. Why? I have no idea. Seriously, she was thankful, she knew as well as I that divorce is what 99% of men would have done. I've grown during therapy, I've grown becoming the best me I can be. I understand how corny that sounds, but it's the truth, I've become much better. Painful? Hell yes. Deserved infidelity to happen to me? Hell no. But you can recover, you can become a better version of you, and if your marriage doesn't work, you're better for your next relationship. It took me a long time to figure that out, but when you have, a huge weight is lifted from your shoulders. No more anchor dragging behind you attached to your leg. 

You can do this youngwife, you just need to decide if this is truly what you want. If you can truly accept what has happened. If your husband truly wants this. If your husband will be true with actions and not words. If you both want this, if you both are willing to do the hard work, well, then do it. If you think I can help you at all in any way, don't hesitate to let me know. I didn't know what to expect, I went forward in the dark, until I told my wife our old marriage was dead and we were now starting with nothing. We have rebuilt our marriage, brick by brick.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> The risk is considered to be a leap of faith, which you have taken once before, you just didn't see it that way. When your husband asked you to marry him you took that very same leap of faith. You said yes believing that your marriage would endure any and all times that are presented. You actually now have a better insight to your husband then you had when you said yes to marrying him. You now know what he is capable of, and that is your double edged sword. Knowing he is capable of cheating makes you not want to trust, but you trusted before with less knowledge of your husband. I'm not saying to take the leap blindly, I'm saying you now have a better idea of what he is capable of doing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I believe I do want it to work for sure. I want us to work and I believe my husband does too. Just sometimes I miss the husband I thought I was married too, and I know he's gone or actually never existed but I still feel lose. I want our marriage so badly to work out but also feel exhausted and wonder if there is someone out there that could love me entirely well at least enough not to betray me several times with others. I miss my peace of mind I guess. Its still only 4 months in from finding everything out and I know I have a heck of a journey in front of me yet still to come...... I'm scared and I'm tired of being scared. I'm tired of coming out of dazes and finding my cheeks wet from were tears have fallen and I didn't realise I was crying. I'm desperately wanting to catch a wind of hope a simple promise or even a whisper that we will once again be ok.
I want a hug from God. As weird as that sounds It's all I want.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> I believe I do want it to work for sure. I want us to work and I believe my husband does too. Just sometimes I miss the husband I thought I was married too, and I know he's gone or actually never existed but I still feel lose. I want our marriage so badly to work out but also feel exhausted and wonder if there is someone out there that could love me entirely well at least enough not to betray me several times with others. I miss my peace of mind I guess. Its still only 4 months in from finding everything out and I know I have a heck of a journey in front of me yet still to come...... I'm scared and I'm tired of being scared. I'm tired of coming out of dazes and finding my cheeks wet from were tears have fallen and I didn't realise I was crying. I'm desperately wanting to catch a wind of hope a simple promise or even a whisper that we will once again be ok.
> I want a hug from God. As weird as that sounds It's all I want.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Youngwife

Your pain is palpable as I read your posts. I felt the same way, had those same fears, and wondered if my wife loved me at all. This is with a remorseful spouse, in fact there was even a thread here about this, I believe it was titled like, even with a remorseful spouse, and I forget the rest. You are four months in, not very long at all but it feels like years. At three years I have broken down and cried because of the infidelity. Yes I'm healing, growing, happier, but sometimes that sadness is purely crushing. 

You can do this youngwife, you are young and intelligent, but it's a process and there are no shortcuts. You can keep the good memories from your old marriage, but then mourn its loss and release it. Begin to lay the foundation of a new marriage, a new you, one that has grown. Communicate effectively and clearly, no more **** test from either of you, clear and concise. Practice vulnerability, and if your husband receives it wrong, correct him. Tell him how to receive vulnerability and be vulnerable himself. Set time aside twice a week to discuss the affair. If you get defensive or angry or your husband does stop immediately. Tell your husband you have many questions regarding the affair, and he will answer them. 

You both have to commit to the marriage, to yourselves, and to each other. You will work on forgiveness first, and then move forward to the problems of the marriage prior to the infidelity. Once you complete forgiveness, the affair is not spoken of again, unless you are discussing that period of time. It's hard, I won't lie, but you can do it. You are capable of strength you didn't know you had, look in the mirror, ask yourself did you think you would make it this far? You have, which means you can go farther, which means you are capable of things you never imagined you could. 

Think to yourself and then write a list of what you need from your husband right now. What will make it easier for you to get through the day. Also write down with a check mark how many times the affair enters your mind. After twenty four hours have passed give this to your husband. Explain to him what it is, and then ask him if it's the same for him. Ask yourself what you need to feel safe, then tell your husband what it is. 

You can do this youngwife, lean on the posters of TAM when you feel you need to, you'll get through this. Pm me anytime, I'll do whatever I can.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife

Today is a new day, begin this day by looking into the mirror. As you see your reflection think of all the good you are capable of. Now pick three good things you do each day and make this your mantra. Do this each and every day until you believe each item fully. Then pick another three and so on. This is the first step in recovering your self esteem. 

Once your self esteem has returned, you will feel a feeling of confidence. Then begin to start self respecting yourself more. Do this by listing boundaries for your husband that you will no longer tolerate. That you have more respect for yourself then to put up with disrespecting behavior. This is simply two ways to jump start yourself to your path of healing. 

Today is the start of the rest of your life, how you live is up to you. My first year out from d-day I forgot many things of who I was, until I started doing the above. As sill as it sounds it helps, it reminds you of who you are. The negative we see in ourselves is inflated, we all believe we can be better. But many fail to see the positives that we do each day also. This makes our negatives that much more inflated, until we begin to believe we aren't good. Change this today. 

Today youngwife, today is the day you begin to rise from the destruction and devastation that surrounds you. Today you will hold your head up and rediscover the value you hold within you. Today, you make changes in your situation to those that are healing. Today, you take your life back, and once again begin to live instead of existing or surviving. These are all choices you can implement to becoming a better you. Rise up today, set goals for your personal recovery.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Mizzbak @Youngwife1000

How are you both doing? Have you recognized more remorse from your spouses? Have you had many arguments? Are you both healing and somewhat finding a stable platform at all? Hoping the both of you are better then before!!!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Small update on what's been happening with me. We have had a few holidays pass, and I had to work both holidays. This didn't stop any plans we had, but I was unable to go to my sister in laws cabin six hours away. My wife and boys went, has a blast and the boys do want to go back. They saw they're first wild black bear and cub!! They were so excited to tell me about it!! My wife was a little nervous, it is the wild after all, and therefore never let the boys out of her sight. Moms, doesn't she know they're boys and live for this type of adventure??!!! Lol!!!

Upon their return my wife and I had some very good weeks, Fourth of July came and we went to see fireworks from her other sisters boat, and brother in law. This was the first time for the boys and they were amazed!!! They sat at the bow of the boat with my sister and brother in law leaving me and my wife to sit alone. We had pleasant conversation and got to watch the fireworks with our arms around each other. It felt good, it felt genuine, and best of all I felt truly happy. 

It takes time and work, but you can do this. So many times I wanted to quit, throw in the towel or tap out, but I'm glad I didn't as I have gotten better.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@drifting on
Thank you for asking, it's been ok. We've had two sessions of couples therapy together now. Each time is like picking at a painful wound, but I look forward to the next one bizarrely. I'm the one most in distress through these sessions but I do see that my husbands is absorbing the pain he knows he's put me in.
Today we did a little exercise in which we had to circle 3 different little simple pictures that we felt best represented how we each felt our marriage was in the past present and where we hoped to be in the future should we be able to get through his storm.
We had to circle 3 without discussing. In all there were 26 pictures in boxes.
We both choose the same one for where we wanted to end up, so I felt this as a positive.
The most painful part of today was sharing the one I chose for how I felt we are now. 
My picture was of a person (stick man) in a locked prison cell and another stick man holding the key while walking away.
I chose this one because I do feel he's put me in this prison cell, a cell of pain, hurt, torment, fear, lose,grief & paranoia....... he put me here and he can walk away and just continue to do life, all the while I'm trapped in a world that he created.
My husband is a chef development manager of seven big restaurants within a holiday park, I have no idea in total how many people he has to manage included in all the venues, either way he's forever stupidly mindful of his job. I'm a stay at home mum. So I don't think I get much mind space in his day to day and often wonder if he knows the pain I can often be in at home.
I don't hold this against him, just a wonder, I shared this also today in therapy.
As you can imagine I was very emotional explaining my picture choice.
So after therapy my husband had to get ready for a two day away business trip, he seemed very sullen. I gave him space, however he came to find me and just bowed his head on my shoulder and said, I'm so truly sorry for putting you in that prison cell, but know as long as you are in there I'm in there with you too, I love you.

So, he's gone now, but those words have penetrated me, I actually felt something of real genuine regret, remorse and togetherness but also tender brokenness on his part travel through me. I feel different. I can't articulate how yet, but in a good way.
My day today's are getting easier, I've been given medication from my doctor if I have really bad days, not anti depressants, just a buzz pill really,keeps things from escalating. Have only used them twice. 
I'm also in a lot more control of my thought patterns, if I'm in a bit great thought process I can normally talk myself out of them.
Our intimate times have felt more like more than just an act of lust, but love also.
I'm just so nervous. I still have no trust. I'm still miss my old marriage but recognise I'm on a journey, so that's ok.

Anyway I better stop now lol. X





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @drifting on
> Thank you for asking, it's been ok. We've had two sessions of couples therapy together now. Each time is like picking at a painful wound, but I look forward to the next one bizarrely. I'm the one most in distress through these sessions but I do see that my husbands is absorbing the pain he knows he's put me in.
> Today we did a little exercise in which we had to circle 3 different little simple pictures that we felt best represented how we each felt our marriage was in the past present and where we hoped to be in the future should we be able to get through his storm.
> We had to circle 3 without discussing. In all there were 26 pictures in boxes.
> ...





Youngwife

Your feelings are valid and normal, it may feel awkward and wrong to express your feelings to your husband, as he is the sole cause of why you are feeling this pain. This is normal, vulnerability is (for me at least) very hard to express. Especially because who you express this too you thought would never betray you. Now that he has, you struggle to be vulnerable and trusting, but vulnerability will bring trust. It's how your husband responds to your vulnerability that allows trust to build. His statement that he is in that prison cell too, is good. He's beginning to realize the pain you are enduring, but he needs to give you more thought in his head on a day to day basis. Him not doing this would have me hesitant to express vulnerability. 

Our MC had me write a check mark over a twenty four hour period of each time the affair came to mind. I gave this to our MC at the next session and she figured out the affair was entering my mind almost every ten minutes. This was early on from d-day, she then showed this to my wife who was astonished I thought of it that much per day. My wife then began to really see how much her affair destroyed me. The pain I felt each and every day, and she then set out to alleviate my pain. More texts and calls during the day, she showed how much I was on her mind. She showed me where she was and gave her entire schedule to me each day, when together she showed love and that she felt my pain. She looked at me with hurt that she caused hurt to me, remorse hit her hard at this time. I used to think regret and remorse were very similar, but I know know how truly different they are. 

These feelings can come and go that you currently feel now. As you work on yourself the pain goes from sharp to dull, then that pain turns to sadness. I understand wanting to go back to the old marriage, but you have to accept that isn't possible, and why would you want it anyway. You are working towards a new and improved marriage by improving yourself, by your husband improving himself. As you know this process isn't easy, but that doesn't mean you can't do this. Look at what you have endured to this point, did you think you had that strength inside you? You have the strength, you have the will, apply this to your improving yourself and you will become even stronger. Take it day by day, be vulnerable and communicate effectively and clearly, you can do this.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000 and @drifting on

I had been avoiding this thread ... and TAM in general, for some time now. Mostly because I was finding the stories of other people's pain hard to bear. And finding it even harder to offer objective and hopefully supportive advice. And the thought of trying to put my emotional state out there for "public consumption" was both exhausting and intimidating. 

Frankly, I am feeling a bit ambivalent about life in general and my marriage in particular. There are posts out there that talk of the "plain of lethal flatness" and I fear that I am currently camping on its edges. Although life is not too bad and my marriage is on a generally even keel, it is hard to feel excitement or a sense of great hope and joy about most things and about my marriage and the future in particular. Maybe the reality is that the pain and anger that have given me impetus in the last year have simply run down. Like some great angst battery that finally spluttered to a halt. And what is left is .. well, whatever it is. As painful as the emotional discussions that my husband and I had in the last year have been, they enabled an incredibly intimate connection. Perhaps because they were so painful, rather than in spite of it. Is that warped? And now, when everything has been dissected, analysed, digested and then regurgitated several times more for further examination, here we sit. The two of us. My husband is hopeful for the future and I am not ... negative. (Trying to be positive here.) I just feel tired and worldly-weary. And all the parts of "normal" life that we held at bay to focus on our marriage have started to intrude again. Taxes, home repairs, family issues etc.

It isn't all negative ... or even negative that much. Sometimes we have very good days. Maybe I'm being greedy and expecting too much too soon? I was doing some online reading and found a site that runs a 12 week group for BS's. It is quite expensive, but there are big parts of it that speak to me. And my husband is very supportive. I think my current state of mind is freaking him out a bit. My therapist has cunningly suggested (in her sneaky way, where I say it myself) that maybe one of the reasons that I'm still looking backward is because the anger I felt over the affair boosted me out of the last part of my depression. And rather like Dumbo's feather, I don't want to let it go. 

We both continue in IC independently. I have tried very hard not to ask for feedback after his sessions, but I think he is getting a great deal out of them. Next year we will try attending MC again (or some kind of couples growth sessions). The thought of working on our marriage but NOT discussing infidelity is strangely exhilarating. I am working on myself and my personal circumstances so that I can become far more self-reliant. The first time my husband cheated on me, I was in a reasonable position and could practically have left if I'd wanted to. This time, practicality says that I really should, almost have to, stay in my marriage in the short term. And I don't like that - want vs need. I know that this makes my husband feel uncomfortable - that I want to be able to do without him if I have to, or choose to. But I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. For either of us. 

On that note - I hope that you are both doing well. Youngwife - drifting is right that pain becomes sadness with time and processing. For me, sadness is a strange place. But it sucks a lot less than pain. I am very glad that your husband is getting better at being there for you. Your prison cell story made me cry. Strength, special person.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

So at any point does the "I was in a good mood all day but now I've thought of all the sh*tty things you did over the last year and a half and I pretty much hate you and don't really want to talk to you, let alone look at you" feelings go away?


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> So at any point does the "I was in a good mood all day but now I've thought of all the sh*tty things you did over the last year and a half and I pretty much hate you and don't really want to talk to you, let alone look at you" feelings go away?


Pretty much, no. They just start to happen less. Until they start happening again.

I asked the same question to my counselor, and he went through the process again of how to deal with it in a healthy manner. I give him credit - he begins each time acknowledging that it's a normal response to the emotional trauma.

-Realize that it's ok to have that feeling
-Acknowledge that there's a history and a reason for it
-pause and focus on your breathing
-Bring your mind back to the present
-Focus on gratitude for something that's happened today (can be anything)
-Express that you forgive yourself for getting angry
-Let yourself know that you are getting stronger

He highly encourages simple meditations (2-7 minutes long) several times a week to practice self forgiveness, gratitude, and focusing on the present.

For what it's worth - here's a link to the guided meditations he shared with me. The Breathing and Loving Kindness meditations help.

Free Guided Meditations - UCLA Mindful Awareness Research Center - Los Angeles, CA


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## Rocket Skates76 (Jun 24, 2017)

I have briefly entertained the thought of R a few times over the last month. But afterher having an EA and a PA all within the past year and a half, yeah, trust is shattered. I've resisted marriage "boot camps" and long talks w her. Trust really? I'm hurt, but she's acting like her world has ended and she daily let's me know via text. And then I remind her I don't believe her and she's still hiding things; she gets frustrated...rinse, repeat. 

But don't think for a second I haven't a number of times thought about the 'good ol days'


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak said:


> @Youngwife1000 and @drifting on
> 
> I had been avoiding this thread ... and TAM in general, for some time now. Mostly because I was finding the stories of other people's pain hard to bear. And finding it even harder to offer objective and hopefully supportive advice. And the thought of trying to put my emotional state out there for "public consumption" was both exhausting and intimidating.
> 
> ...









Mizzbak 

This is all normal, everything you are feeling, completely normal. You come to a point where all the discussions, all the work you do, feels as if it comes to a lull. Basically, you are now disembarking from the roller coaster you were previously on. This will feel like you have come to a standstill, but I assure you, more work needs to be done. 

It's scary sometimes when I think back and felt that the roller coaster felt good. I became comfortable with the constant up and down, that it eventually felt normal. Your emotions and feelings are magnified due to the hurt and pain brought forth by infidelity. It's a severe pain and betrayal that some professionals compare to PTSD. Therefore, this lull becomes a part that makes you almost lethargic in moving forward. But you must continue to move forward, you have to push yourself past it all. 

I too became a person who lived by looking in the rear view mirror than one who looked out of the windshield. This is something that can be dangerous, for it will prevent you from moving forward. Very similar to the leap of faith one must take in reconciliation. You are letting go and not continuing to carry the infidelity in your pocket anymore. However, it's also a change that bring about fear, and this is normal. I was once asked if I kept looking back because I was afraid to be happy again. This made me think, and rightfully so, but it also provoked fear inside me. In some ways I was afraid to be happy, I was afraid that I was letting my guard down, or that my wife would cheat again. Even though I knew I was fine divorced or married, I still carried a fear with me. For me I dropped my walls down, my wife had not given me any reason to not trust, so I began to trust more. I also began to embrace that I was living and not just surviving. It was here that I began to enjoy life again, being happy was almost a new feeling, and I welcomed it. As time passes, we are still working on each other and the marriage, I have become even more happier as has my wife.

Your time will come mizzbak, the time when you begin living and not just surviving. You will feel happiness begin to flow within you, and you will soon welcome it like I did. Instead of becoming fearful of hope you will relish the thought that for a long time coming, hope is becoming more powerful. Your smiles will begin to increase, the sadness becoming less, and happiness begins to fill you ever so slowly. You can do this, you can change your view to looking forward instead of backward. You can move forward and be happy, you can let your depression go, you can now begin to live a true and happy life. I wish you the best, and if you need anything I'm here and I'll support you. No matter your decision, I'll support your choice fully and without question. Stay strong and God bless.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I urge you to read @MovingFrwrd thread, it is an amazing journey. Often the question is "is love an emotion or a choice". The truth is it is both. 
His wife and he did marry because of emotion. A time came when it became a choice. She chose adultery, but realized remorse, a discussion which is often discussed here: what is regret and what is remorse. He almost destroyed his family until he chose to love her. 

I also suggest you read Discover Your Love Language - The 5 Love Languages®. Understand the romantic gestures are an important to him both to give snd recieve. He is speaking a Lanuage you do not understand. Learn to translate into one you understand. You have your own Lanuage as well. Learn it and help him understand it so he can express it in a manner you understand.

I think your husband might be prone to limerence. This site offers a great expectation, but is profit driven The Truth About Limerence Affairs - Joe Beam.

I think "not just friend's" will both help you establish boundaries that will protect your vows. Remember the vows you exchanged when marring where actions you vowed to protect the person you love. You and only you protect your vows, your vows do not protect you.

Be well


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Double post


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

LosingHim said:


> So at any point does the "I was in a good mood all day but now I've thought of all the sh*tty things you did over the last year and a half and I pretty much hate you and don't really want to talk to you, let alone look at you" feelings go away?




For me they come and go, with longer periods of go in between lol xx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> So at any point does the "I was in a good mood all day but now I've thought of all the sh*tty things you did over the last year and a half and I pretty much hate you and don't really want to talk to you, let alone look at you" feelings go away?




In all honesty, movingforward is pretty accurate with their response. They do tend to dissipate, then sometimes come out of nowhere and smack you in the face. In my healing I've found that at times I don't want to be around my wife, I don't want to look at her, but it's an emotion and emotions are fleeting. I remind myself of the work we have both done to get to where we are now, and the emotion subsides. I think this is very normal considering the trauma felt by infidelity. I've spoken at length with my IC about this and she continues to remind me that these feelings will come and go. So do they ever stop? I'm not quite sure, but I can tell you I feel sadness about it now, the pain is far less. 

On occasion, I look at my wife and think, how could you do such a thing? This is normal too, and I attribute this to the last step of accepting all that has happened. It takes time, you have so much to process after the smoke clears, the work being done, the repairs you make to yourself, the repairs your spouse makes, the new marriage, the relationship with both spouses being different. All of this has an effect on your emotions, add in the stresses of your daily life, work, kids, financials, it can be very overwhelming. Stay focused and true to yourself to move forwards and continue your journey.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

I’m adding this story to the thread because it has been very revealing for me to unpack what it means. Because it illustrates how tenuous reconciliation can still be for me. And because it made me laugh a little. Afterwards.

My husband has been very committed to addressing the loss of trust he caused. I have full access to his diary and appointments. I also have logon access to his emails, phone and Google location as/if I want it. He checks in with me often and especially if his plans change. Over the course of several months, I’ve moved from checking up on him hourly to daily and now it’s been pretty intermittent for a while. 

A few weeks ago, he had a proposal that he needed to finish urgently. He managed to find himself a quiet corner at a client, silenced his phone and started work. Around an hour in, I called him. He didn’t hear. I decided it was urgent and called again. He still didn’t answer. I checked in on his Google location history. It said he was still at work. I waited a while and called again. No answer. Then I checked his location again. Still at the client. Then I noticed a device update button on the Google location screen. I clicked, and his little icon moved to a suburb a little way from our house. 

To say that I freaked out would be an understatement. My mother is one of the few people I know who can panic constructively. She thinks nothing of involving the police if you haven’t returned calls for more than a day or so. (True university story). I believe that I may have inherited some of her ... abilities. Around an hour later, my husband finally noticed my “Where are you ??!!!!?????????” email and the missed calls. By then, I had already organised someone to look after my kids so that I could go and confront him in person at the mystery location. I was considering still taking our oldest son with me, as the property only had panhandle access (satellite image) and I wasn't sure whether I'd be able to talk my way in past the main house if I was alone. And I had messaged the OW’s husband to confirm whether she had moved anywhere near it (they are currently separated). That day, the clincher for me was the missing step ladder. (I have two youngish boys and we have a big property, so I hadn’t previously viewed this as suspicious.) But here was undeniable evidence that he was still cheating - he had clearly taken it to the OW’s new house to help her hang pictures/curtains or something. I hadn’t figured out how he got it into the car with none of us noticing.

When my husband called me back, he told me he was still at work. I told him that I didn’t believe him. He took a photo out of the window of his office. I reloaded his Google location … and it said he was at work. I opened his timeline and it said that he had been at work the whole day. I clicked on the device Update button and the icon moved back to the mystery location. Reload and repeat several times. Same results. My husband offered to get a witness to his whereabouts. I became a little more rational and said we could talk when he got home later. He cancelled his afternoon meetings and drove straight home and offered the security logs of the building he had been in. He sat with me at my computer with his phone and we re-tested. Sure enough, the icon still moved to the mystery location. Where he clearly was not. (Maybe it’s some kind of geographical averaging thing?) He told me that, in that moment, he really began to understand how deeply he had broken us. He told me that he had been terrified that he wouldn’t be able to prove that he wasn’t where he hadn’t been. He told me that he loves me very much and that he is so, so sorry that he hurt me like this. And then we cried a bit together. 

My therapist listened in slightly stunned silence when I told her this story. She said that I have very detailed negative thought spirals. Almost impressively so. We both agreed that my husband handled it well – he didn’t get angry, defensive or frustrated in any way, and drove straight home to address my concerns. And then she asked me what I had learnt. It is this - that technology is not ever going to be able prove to me that my husband is not cheating on me. And that this trust thing is tricky.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mizzbak said:


> I’m adding this story to the thread because it has been very revealing for me to unpack what it means. Because it illustrates how tenuous reconciliation can still be for me. And because it made me laugh a little. Afterwards.
> 
> My husband has been very committed to addressing the loss of trust he caused. I have full access to his diary and appointments. I also have logon access to his emails, phone and Google location as/if I want it. He checks in with me often and especially if his plans change. Over the course of several months, I’ve moved from checking up on him hourly to daily and now it’s been pretty intermittent for a while.
> 
> ...


Google location does weird stuff, sometimes. Might be due to cell tower overlap?


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Google location does weird stuff, sometimes. Might be due to cell tower overlap?


It is peculiarly reproducible, very specific and almost always completely wrong. Usually by several kilometres. For example, right now I can see both my husband and his phone from where I sit. Doing the clicky-update thing tells me that he is currently 3.2 km due roughly NorthEast ... at a girls' high school? Maybe it could be the vagaries of cellphone tower coverage in our general area - the networks are pretty vague in general around us. 

If I just reload the page rather than "update", then things (and more specifically my husband's phone) are right where they should be. And the weird locations don't ever crop up in the timeline view. I put a little effort into trying to see whether anyone else had had similar experiences ... before giving up and making cake.

I can tell you that my faith in the Great Google was somewhat shaken.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Youngwife1000 - how are you doing? How is therapy going?

Recently, my husband and I were discussing me wearing a ring again. Not my old one, but something new. And maybe some kind of vow renewal. But every time we had these discussions, I'd find myself getting angry. Which seemed unfair given that I was usually the one who brought it up. So we've stopped talking about it. Clearly I'm not ready. 

I have incredibly ambivalent feelings around our wedding and my memories of it. A friend asked me why I don't have any wedding photos up, but I never have or wanted to. My husband's first affair was still going on during our engagement, wedding and the first year of our marriage. I found out a year after it petered out. In retrospect, it might seem like an exaggeration to call what went on then an affair. He exchanged emails with his AP that were largely platonic. But they were in secret. And there were definitely romantic overtones. I thought that I'd dealt with this all years ago. But finding out about his recent affair last year brought it all back ... and then some. I think that it because, by being unfaithful a second time, my husband basically rejected the forgiveness that I had previously gifted him with. Which is why, in some complex internal moral accounting of mine, I got to re-experience the old betrayal all over again with the new one. Ten years ago, we rugswept. This time we have not. Frankly, this time I simply don't have a big enough rug.

Ten years ago, I thought that I had fully forgiven my husband. But, in retrospect I think that I still allowed my hurt and bitterness to seep into my view of our marriage. I think that since then, at some deep level, I've had a general sense of moral superiority, of being waaay in the black... Looking at it now, that type of power imbalance can never be good, even if it is just subjective. I have also always thought of myself as a realist, but losing my romantic ideals so early in my marriage was definitely not good for me. And I was already predisposed towards becoming too much of a pragmatist. And therefore, not always a loving, giving and romantic wife. I am by no means saying that I deserved my husband's second affair. But actually, I think I had a big hand in cheating myself out of what could have been a far more rewarding (and hence robust) first decade of marriage. That love and intimacy that is shared reflects itself back and magnifies is a truth that I have only recently truly realised. 

A lot of what I see written in reconciliation posts and forums has to do with the role of honesty in the process. I suppose that this is as much about inward honesty as it is outward - what do you think @drifting on ?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mizzbak said:


> @Youngwife1000 - how are you doing? How is therapy going?
> 
> Recently, my husband and I were discussing me wearing a ring again. Not my old one, but something new. And maybe some kind of vow renewal. But every time we had these discussions, I'd find myself getting angry. Which seemed unfair given that I was usually the one who brought it up. So we've stopped talking about it. Clearly I'm not ready.
> 
> ...




Mizzbak

Your last paragraph, very true. Look, I've said hundreds of times that reconciliation is very difficult. The decision to reconcile is a very hard decision in plots own right, as it has to be made from a position of strength. That takes about six months in my opinion, and had you gone about reconciliation after his first affair different, I think you would be in a different place. Rug sweeping comes back with a vengeance, so I ask you this, if your husband cheated next year on you would it be as hard a hit as now? The answer is no, because when you reconcile correctly, you know you will be ok with or without him. You have become a far better person and you have grown as a person. One thing that keeps my wife on edge, she knows I'll be fine with or without her. She also knows it has to be this way, she isn't given complete trust or blind trust as many refer to it. I have grown as a person, I've healed, and I'm being the best me possible. 

This all comes from being honest with yourself both inward and outward. The honesty brings about those conversations you dreaded before, the being all vulnerable, the showing of exposing your heart once again. You have to be honest inward as well in fixing your own faults that you brought to the marriage. You fix yourself first, honestly work hard on becoming the best you you can be. From there you can then begin to work on the marriage, you can identify and replace the flaws you brought forward. You're not perfect mizzbak, you never will be, but your a much better person when you identify and correct your own flaws. 

Reconciliation is all about honesty, without honesty or commitment from you both reconciliation will escape you. It's a huge gift you've given to the wayward, one that should not be taken for granted or lightly, and it deserves all you can give. This is why reconciliation is so difficult for the betrayed spouse, you look inward honestly and see that you too brought flaws into the marriage. You too brought a toxic substance to your marriage, and it's on you to fix it. At the same time you offer reconciliation, you also offer grace, the undeserved favor. Extending grace to someone who just ripped your heart from your chest, smiles at you, then stomps on it is very difficult. You will be guarded in extending grace, but nonetheless you have extended grace. 

As far as the wedding rings, I don't wear mine anymore. I did try, but that ring has nothing of value to me. In fact I had asked my wife to stop wearing hers until I became more healed. I was of the impression she didn't deserve it, she touched OM with the ring I gave her. Ultimately we decided on new rings, and this is something as I see as very important for moving forward. Although the ring she wears is my symbol of my vows, the fact she wore it with OM made me despise that ring. I couldn't stand to see it on her finger for quite a while, and in my opinion rightly so. I spoke to my therapist at length about the rings, which at first she questioned why I placed such a high value on a material thing. My therapist did this for one reason, it showed me how I had to be honest with myself. This was early on in my therapy, and my therapist moved me from looking at a material object to self reflecting my honesty inward and discovering I couldn't move forward with the old rings. 

So you can now see how this has affected me so personally. Some may say I should have divorced and never looked back, and they are entitled to their opinion. I can only tell you this, only you know what is best for you, if reconciliation is the best for you then commit to it fully. If you can't commit fully, then this wasn't the best for you. I support what the poster wants and works for, because I believe they think this is their best choice, it's best for them. But don't be afraid to say you were wrong if you find you can't make it through, you will have grown as a person. If someone tells me I'm wrong so be it, if they disagree so be it, I'm the one that's here, I see what my wife is doing, I see the change, I see what's best for me, and I know myself best. 

I can't possibly tell you all I've done wrong, I can't tell you all my wife has done wrong. My wife owns her affair, she owns her flaws both personally and what she brought to the marriage. I do the same on my end, and honesty is what allows you to see your own flaws.


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@Mizzbak

Hello, thank you for your thoughts.
We have only had one other therapy session since I last wrote, mainly due to my husbands work schedule colliding with our therapists holiday. It's going fine, the door of honesty is always a blessing and these sessions of therapy really offer a way in to talk openly. I value this as sometimes I want to talk but I know his work is very heavy at the moment so don't feel it appropriate always to start big talks. I'm ok to wait for therapy time. 
It was our 4 year wedding anniversary last week and I asked could we not acknowledge it as its to soon and painful. He was completely understanding, for me most of the day I felt so low and worthless, everything that I was to him that day was so easy for him to throw away. It brought back a lot of pain, and I've been sifting through it all ever since. So bloody painful.
Sometimes I catch myself staring at him and thinking, who even are you? I'm still feeling panicky driving through the village were one of the men lives he visited and if I can I will find routes around even if it adds 30 min to my journey. I just fear the feeling it brings. Knowing he came here to this place to deliberately cheat on me. I hate it.
I'm trying to reel in these feelings as I know they will pass so I try to speed up the process by thinking positive. Like, we are still together, he's really making an effort with words and actions, like taking photos of were he is instantly if I feel scared. Leaving phones behind and stuff. I'm starting to miss him when he's away for long shifts, were as a month or so back I'd be glad I didn't have to face him. I honestly didn't think I'd ever miss him again. I'm finding it easier to look him in the eyes and maintain eye contact. Small steps I know, but I'm using them to try and pull out of dark days.
Sometimes I imagine what life would be like without him, I could be free of worry, free from paranoia and it all feels very tempting. However there's just something inside that keeps me fighting for us. That keeps me here, I'm not sure what that is, is it love? I don't know anymore but whatever it is it keeps me going.
I'm also finding intimacy easier not so many mind movies, I've stopped thinking he's gay, bisexual obviously but not gay, this does scare me ALOT as I'm worried he will crave a man again,but he seems adamant that ship has sailed. I'm hoping he will be able to be honest with me if those desires return, but I'm worried he'll keep it secret as to not hurt me or fill me with anxiety. It's all very tricky.
We go away to Spain in October for a week, child free. First time alone from children in 3 years. Really hoping for a re connecting of sorts. 
For now all I know is if he left me I wouldn't fight for him, I'd let him go, I don't feel I need him at all. However I'm not giving up while he's fighting for us either.









I just wanted to share a silly picture of myself, just so you can see who you've been supporting, but also I'm now in a place were I can be silly again.
As always thank you so much.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @Mizzbak
> 
> Hello, thank you for your thoughts.
> We have only had one other therapy session since I last wrote, mainly due to my husbands work schedule colliding with our therapists holiday. It's going fine, the door of honesty is always a blessing and these sessions of therapy really offer a way in to talk openly. I value this as sometimes I want to talk but I know his work is very heavy at the moment so don't feel it appropriate always to start big talks. I'm ok to wait for therapy time.
> ...





Youngwife1000

I don't have much time at the moment, but I feel a need to address one part of your response here. The traveling through a village of one the men, adding 30 minutes to your travels. This is a perfect example of how to gauge your recovery in time. As you heal you will try to avoid triggers that you see coming. These triggers in the beginning cause so much pain you are willing to avoid at all costs. You will know when you are healing when you decide to not give these travels of towns so much power. You in a sense take back the power and will remove the power you are giving to this town. It's acceptance and healing that give the power back to you and not the town that you tried so desperately to avoid. In time you choose to not give power to something you had so much pain with before. God bless you youngwife!!


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Youngwife1000
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have much time at the moment, but I feel a need to address one part of your response here. The traveling through a village of one the men, adding 30 minutes to your travels. This is a perfect example of how to gauge your recovery in time. As you heal you will try to avoid triggers that you see coming. These triggers in the beginning cause so much pain you are willing to avoid at all costs. You will know when you are healing when you decide to not give these travels of towns so much power. You in a sense take back the power and will remove the power you are giving to this town. It's acceptance and healing that give the power back to you and not the town that you tried so desperately to avoid. In time you choose to not give power to something you had so much pain with before. God bless you youngwife!!




I look forward so much to the days I can take the power back, I need to address this.
Thank you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> I look forward so much to the days I can take the power back, I need to address this.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Youngwife

The days will come, be strong, stay strong, and work hard on yourself. Utilize therapy to help you in every way that it can. Learn to take power away, take that power back, and begin to live once again. I too, gave way to much power to triggers and painful areas. This keeps you from going forward, but you have to have time to help transition that power back to you. God bless.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@Mizzbak and @Youngwife1000

How are you both doing?


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

@drifting on
Thank you for asking, for me something similar to your nick name. I'm actually really struggling. All the things I found hard about my husband but would tolerate before and put it down to us being very different people, I now find them wedges that I find push me further away. 
He's a very bitter person, if someone disappoints or lets him down he's not one to show grace or forgiveness too, I find this extremely hard as I'm a person that gives both. Example, my brothers and mother voted leave in Brexit, for their own reasons not because they are against immigration, as my husband is from Holland, he now refers to them as racists that don't care about him. Which isn't true and the likelihood of the government telling all EU citizens to leave is nil. However he often throws their choice at me and really is very bitter. I find this hurtful as I personally believe that was there right and choice even if I personally voted to remain. 
Another example is, someone blocked him and removed himself from a chef forum that my husband runs, because he didn't get a job he wanted and felt my husband was partly to blame, he wasn't he was just a teacher at the same school and had no authority to hire or fire.
In any case my husband now refers to him as" a fat ginger baststard".
I absolutely hate this nastiest in him, it was a simply misunderstanding and feel he actually should of contacted the guy to clear things up and reassure him. He didn't but now just says horrid things about the man, it's really an ugly side to my husband. This attitude in him is isolating my warmth towards him. The more I try to explain grace and forgiveness the more he thinks I'm attacking him. The negativity steals my joy. Before if it arose I'd pray for him, now I struggle.
He drinks every day, I work out and don't drink. Although he does want to stop I don't see him making an huge changes.
I don't know, I feel so lost and wonder if we are meant to put are energy into fighting for something that's just not there anymore. 
I find it hard to imagine a future with this guy that I don't recognise any more or at times I actually like. 
But I have no energy to leave, I'm not at the point of emptiness like complete emptiness where you wake up one day, and just think, no more, I'm done.I'm not there yet. I wonder if it's just around the corner. 
Then other days we can have really open and real times with each other and I feel I can't give up yet.
I wish someone could show me this time next year.
I write this through a heavy heart and tears. I just really really don't know what to do.
We go away in October just the two of us for a week, I'm hoping to feel a stronger sense of direction after then.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Youngwife1000 said:


> @drifting on
> Thank you for asking, for me something similar to your nick name. I'm actually really struggling. All the things I found hard about my husband but would tolerate before and put it down to us being very different people, I now find them wedges that I find push me further away.
> He's a very bitter person, if someone disappoints or lets him down he's not one to show grace or forgiveness too, I find this extremely hard as I'm a person that gives both. Example, my brothers and mother voted leave in Brexit, for their own reasons not because they are against immigration, as my husband is from Holland, he now refers to them as racists that don't care about him. Which isn't true and the likelihood of the government telling all EU citizens to leave is nil. However he often throws their choice at me and really is very bitter. I find this hurtful as I personally believe that was there right and choice even if I personally voted to remain.
> Another example is, someone blocked him and removed himself from a chef forum that my husband runs, because he didn't get a job he wanted and felt my husband was partly to blame, he wasn't he was just a teacher at the same school and had no authority to hire or fire.
> ...




Youngwife1000

In reconciliation every single flaw becomes magnified, each flaw something you either looked passed or thought was minor. Now, after your world was nuked those flaws stand out in a huge way. When you married you accepted your spouse the way they were, in reconciliation, you need to remember they still have those flaws, but now more have come to the surface. Only you can decide if these flaws are something you cannot accept. So my personal opinion I don't think would help you very much. But each of us has the right to choose what is best for us, nobody has the right to make that decision for us. Unless your husband was asked for his opinion on your family, he should have remained quiet. Immigration is a very difficult situation for many, many have been uprooted and left much behind, so my opinion should be left better left unsaid. 

Your heart will feel heavy for quite some time, your emotions from one way to another. This is normal, remember how destroyed as a person you became because of this betrayal. This is where you need to focus on to get healthy, to become stronger. It's hard, I know, but you can do this. Your tears will fall at any given moment, and that's normal, even in rage you may cry at the feeling of being so full of rage, yet frustrated. It is no doubt a very traumatic time for you, so work on yourself to get to a better place. Once in a better place then work on the marriage. 

I'm here anytime, just pm me if you need to, I'll listen and try to help you through. Remember, you can do this!!! God bless.


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