# WW/MLC/ Ex very selfish



## Canada75

A question....Since my ex moved out (found out much later she had someone else) she has constantly been busy on some of the days she has our son(50/50 custody) At first I would say of course I could take him because really I was trying to nice her back. Then I started getting angry with her because my son would ask me why, and now since the papers have been signed I have refused to take him on her days and let her figure it out. I stopped watching him so she could have private time with her new guy as I couldn't mentally deal with that anymore. Now they all just hang out together....well that backfired!!

So the question.....whats up with that?? Anyone go through this and come to realize what they did. My son hasn't figured her out yet, but he has been ditched one way or another a few times a month(well 15 days) over almost 9 months. I have not once made plans on days that I have him because I know my time with him now is precious and make the most of it.

Does it have something to do with "the fog" or her new relationship, new life or has she really just lost the plot. It frustrates me to no end because I can't stand seeing my son disappointed. 
I have totally and finally completely gone NC except for very short and to the point text or email only regarding our son. It feels good not having to talk to her. When she does email, she gets no reply unless it is about our son. 

Example that made me write this, I switched weekends with her for a family event I wanted to take our son too and she said that's fine. 
30 mins later she emailed me saying that our son really loved spending time with me so If I wanted to have him both weekends that would be fine with her as there really isn't anything to do at her place....what the what?? It's like I'm dealing with a teenager. I know and you know that in that 30 mins her and POSOM thought up some plans they might be able to do.....well I think they did...it wasn't her being nice. 
Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has dealt with a wayward spouse/MLC acting as if they have no responsibility anymore. 
Just want to say that she loves our son and has been a great mother his whole life, but after she left and entered the fog she is a totally different person...like Jekyll and Hyde....it's scary really how a switch can be flicked off and she is just gone like that.


----------



## hylton7

your a nice guy and nice guy finish last go hard on her.


----------



## Satya

Ever have a circle of friends where one friend enters a new relationship and no one sees them for about 4-6 months?

Yeah, that's what she's doing. It's not playing tiddlywinks with her new partner and kids, as you know, are massive c-blockers.

I'm not saying it's right, so just document to the letter, the days you had your son when she should have. Be there for your son and enjoy the time together. It's not your problem if his mom chooses otherwise and he will remember who spent the most quality time with him.


----------



## Edmund

I suggest that you keep your son every opportunity you can and document it. Keep a record. Stop thinking about what she's doing with POSOM. If she is having POSOM around while you son is there, go ahead and introduce your son to whomever you are dating. Notify exW if your divorce agreement requires it. Do not force your son to go where he is not wanted. As you state, exW is no longer the good mother she used to be.

Canada, IMO your story and Moving Forward's story are the two most blatant examples of cruel deception, and a plan coldly executed, by a WW planning to replace her husband with an AP. I hope you can heal but you will have to stop thinking about her if you can.


----------



## BobSimmons

I see alot of people saying document and take advantage of having more time with your son, which sounds great yes but this is bigger than that.

a) You get used to spending more time with your son, when she decides that she'll finally step up and take him during her times (her and the OM are bonding there will come a time when they try to play happy families, be ready for that) you'll end up losing because you're used to spending that much time with him.
b) This is a court mandated allocation. You have been bending backwards to accommodate her, she's used to getting her way, again there will come a time she wants to play super mother with the OM and she'll expect to get her way even cutting into your time. There should be clear boundaries that are stuck to and broken only in situations of extreme circumstance.
c) Stop being a nice guy. Go and find a lady. Go and be selfish for yourself. You've earned it.


----------



## Rowan

Even only having him every other weekend, my ex-husband still spent way more time with our son after our divorce than he did when we were married. For a while. But after he began a new relationship, he started "needing" me to keep our son more and more often on "his" weekends. Because they had plans, because they had friends coming over, because they wanted to go to the beach for the weekend, and on and on. Then there was a brief window of my ex-husband and his new wife playing happy family, where they were getting our son lots of extra weekends so they could go to concerts, on vacations, to parties, to family events. That lasted less than a year. Now, four years after our divorce, my son drives himself over to visit with his dad for a few hours a couple times a week. Sometimes he'll be specifically asked to stay with them for the weekend, but it's almost always because either his father and stepmom need a designated driver for some event, or because her family is in town and it's a "family picture" sort of occasion. Basically, what it boils down to is that our son just isn't as important to my ex-husband as his current plans. That's sad, but it's also not something I either can, or would, try to fix. Very little is, or has ever been, as important to my ex-husband as whatever it is he wants to be doing at any given moment. That's a huge part of why we're divorced. 

I handled it by always agreeing to keep our son on my ex-husband's weekends if he asked. I chose to address it that way because I felt like it wasn't fair for my son to feel unwanted by both of his parents, when he was already clearly little more than a nuisance to his father. Yes, it was unfair to me and kept me from being able to do some of the things I wanted to do with some of those free weekends I was supposed to have. But I figured that full time parenting was just part of what I signed up for when I became a mom, and that hadn't changed after my divorce. I was also really careful to never say anything negative to my son about his father or the situation. I didn't lie for my ex-husband or cover for him, but I also consciously avoided pointing out how much what he was doing sucked. I always kept a fun, positive, vibe anytime my son got to spend a surprise extra weekend with me. 

Now that our son is older, he seems to have pretty well figured out what's up with his dad. He loves his father, but he's under no illusions about the type of person, and father, he is.


----------



## arbitrator

*You're a lot like myself, @Canada75 ~ right after my divorce from my first wife, she had to have primary custody of them, basically to insure her getting the child support and not having to pay it!

Then she entered the dating arena and had to have damned near every night or weekend free! And guess what? My telephone was always ringing for me to take them, whether it was her weekend or not!

I gladly acquiesced because I loved those little guys because just the mere being with them put a pep in my step and a surge of air beneath my wings!

And truth be told, I wouldn't have had it any other way. The boys and my love and togetherness is a most cherished attribute that I will undoubtedly take to my grave with me!

I thank God for them on a daily basis!*


----------



## Rick Blaine

I don't get the thinking of the replies here. One of the worst aspects of divorce is having to split time seeing your children. I want to see mine every day. When my ex takes off for a month to see her affair partner, which she has done since he lives abroad, then I am a happy camper.

I am now in a new relationship, but I would still have my daughters full time if I could. My girlfriend understands that my girls come first, and she she loves me for that. I love her all the more for her understanding and her family values. So to the OP I say, gladly take all opportunities you have to have your kids. They grow up fast. Be the best father you can and ignore your ex. When it comes time to start dating, make it known to any prospects that your children are your first priority. That will shrink the size of your dating pool but ensure you find someone who will support you in the important vocation of parenthood. 

As far as your ex goes, you can't control her. She is lost. Just worry about things on your side of the street and don't sweat the small stuff. Good luck!


----------



## Bananapeel

After a divorce what your ex does should no longer be a focus of yours. What I do is I tell my kids that they are my #1 priority in life and I'll take them for extra days any chance I get. The kids notice and it has positively affected how they view me as their father. So turn this negative into a positive and be a rock star father with the extra time she's giving you.


----------



## SunCMars

Satya said:


> Ever have a circle of friends where one friend enters a new relationship and no one sees them for about 4-6 months?
> 
> Yeah, that's what she's doing. It's not playing tiddlywinks with her new partner.*Kids, as you know, are massive c-blockers.
> *
> I'm not saying it's right, so just document to the letter, the days you had your son when she should have. Be there for your son and enjoy the time together. It's not your problem if his mom chooses otherwise and he will remember who spent the most quality time with him.


Gawd, I love this post!

It strikes to the soul of the BS.
It strikes to the bone(r) of the POSOM.
It strikes to the heart of the child.

The WW? She has none of those three things.


----------



## TAMAT

Does your Son know who the OM is, in the sense that the OM is the one who destroyed his life and family.

The OM should never become "uncle tony" or whatever the heck cute name your WW invents for him. There is nothing nice about what the OM in concert with your WW did to your Son.

On some levels your Son is a reminder of You to your WW and looking at your Son must cause her enormous guilt an emotion incompatible with the emotional elation she gets from the OM.

Tamat


----------



## sokillme

Canada75 said:


> A question....Since my ex moved out (found out much later she had someone else) she has constantly been busy on some of the days she has our son(50/50 custody) At first I would say of course I could take him because really I was trying to nice her back. Then I started getting angry with her because my son would ask me why, and now since the papers have been signed I have refused to take him on her days and let her figure it out. I stopped watching him so she could have private time with her new guy as I couldn't mentally deal with that anymore. Now they all just hang out together....well that backfired!!
> 
> So the question.....whats up with that?? Anyone go through this and come to realize what they did. My son hasn't figured her out yet, but he has been ditched one way or another a few times a month(well 15 days) over almost 9 months. I have not once made plans on days that I have him because I know my time with him now is precious and make the most of it.
> 
> Does it have something to do with "the fog" or her new relationship, new life or has she really just lost the plot. It frustrates me to no end because I can't stand seeing my son disappointed.
> I have totally and finally completely gone NC except for very short and to the point text or email only regarding our son. It feels good not having to talk to her. When she does email, she gets no reply unless it is about our son.
> 
> Example that made me write this, I switched weekends with her for a family event I wanted to take our son too and she said that's fine.
> 30 mins later she emailed me saying that our son really loved spending time with me so If I wanted to have him both weekends that would be fine with her as there really isn't anything to do at her place....what the what?? It's like I'm dealing with a teenager. I know and you know that in that 30 mins her and POSOM thought up some plans they might be able to do.....well I think they did...it wasn't her being nice.
> Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has dealt with a wayward spouse/MLC acting as if they have no responsibility anymore.
> Just want to say that she loves our son and has been a great mother his whole life, but after she left and entered the fog she is a totally different person...like Jekyll and Hyde....it's scary really how a switch can be flicked off and she is just gone like that.


Sounds like she is just and *******. You probably just were too much in love to see it. Sad for your son though.


----------



## WasDecimated

My XWW did the same thing. After a couple years, my kids figured her out. Yours will too. They know when they are a priority in their moms life, and when they are not. They are a lot more perceptive than most adults realize. 
Both of my kids now live with me 100%...their choice. They weren't interested in being an inconvenience. With me, they are a priority and they know it. 

Now my XWW has all the time in the world to spend with whatever dude she is banging, but she gave up the love and respect of her children. 

She has traded the most important moments in life to pretend she is a teenager again. She'll never get those back.


----------



## Rick Blaine

If you haven't already done so, you need to let your son know that his mother had an affair and that led to the divorce. Children deserve to know the truth, and it is unfair to keep it from them, especially since they will partly blame you or even themselves if they don't know the true story. 

My children do not accept the new man in my ex-wife's life because they know he played a role in breaking up the family. This is important because I want them to learn proper boundaries and not be morally confused. They will one day get married, and I want them to take their vows seriously and not feel it's okay to stray instead of working out the problems. And while they don't accept my XWW's affair partner, they like my girlfriend who I met AFTER the divorce. My ex-wife is livid over this, and she can't understand why the children accept my new girlfriend but reject her affair partner. Waywards just can't accept the bed they made. I would be lying if I said I wasn't completely enjoying her meltdowns (though I hate the affect they have on my girls). I know that I'm being small minded and unchristian, but after all she put me through with her affairs I just can't help enjoying it.

One other thing. I have made it clear with the POSOM that I am his enemy. Had he lived on this side of the pond I would have confronted him when the affair first started. Why men don't do this is a mystery to me. But I was able to get this wanker's cell phone number through snooping. I sent him the following text: "My wife has decided to abandon her family for a second time due to an affair. This time with you. While I blame her mostly for this, you have a role. Stay away from my daughters and me. Any encounters you have with any of us would not be good for you." 

I am not advocating violence, but I am advocating drawing a clear line and letting all parties know that there are consequences for infidelity and for breaking up a family. This isn't going to be accepted over time, and I will never make it comfortable for you.


----------



## Canada75

TAMAT said:


> Does your Son know who the OM is, in the sense that the OM is the one who destroyed his life and family.
> 
> The OM should never become "uncle tony" or whatever the heck cute name your WW invents for him. There is nothing nice about what the OM in concert with your WW did to your Son.
> 
> On some levels your Son is a reminder of You to your WW and looking at your Son must cause her enormous guilt an emotion incompatible with the emotional elation she gets from the OM.
> 
> Tamat


Yes she has introduced my son to him....first through online games and then in person. Our agreement states no significant other to be around him for 6 month of signing which we are still in. I have brought this up to her several times with a huge backlash each time saying they are just friends and I have no right to tell her who she can hang out with. They are a couple but even now, 9 months after leaving me for him she still denies it. Even my son tells me their not a couple, but I'm 100% positive they are but won't get into details about that.
He likes the POSOM and tells me so. Tells me when I see him what they all did, how he helped him build furniture for his new room, boardgame nights, visiting POSOM house and how cool it is...etc etc.
Fu*king heart breaking really.
I finally laid down the law the other day(very nicely) and said I didn't want to hear about them anymore unless he felt uncomfortable about something going on.


----------



## Canada75

Rick Blaine said:


> If you haven't already done so, you need to let your son know that his mother had an affair and that led to the divorce. Children deserve to know the truth, and it is unfair to keep it from them, especially since they will partly blame you or even themselves if they don't know the true story.
> 
> I think laying that on a 10 year old would be unfair. He is a smart kid...he will figure it out one day.


----------



## Bananapeel

Canada75 said:


> Yes she has introduced my son to him....first through online games and then in person. Our agreement states no significant other to be around him for 6 month of signing which we are still in. I have brought this up to her several times with a huge backlash each time saying they are just friends and I have no right to tell her who she can hang out with. They are a couple but even now, 9 months after leaving me for him she still denies it. Even my son tells me their not a couple, but I'm 100% positive they are but won't get into details about that.
> He likes the POSOM and tells me so. Tells me when I see him what they all did, how he helped him build furniture for his new room, boardgame nights, visiting POSOM house and how cool it is...etc etc.
> Fu*king heart breaking really.
> *I finally laid down the law the other day(very nicely) and said I didn't want to hear about them anymore unless he felt uncomfortable about something going on*.


I'd recommend you rethink this approach in the future. I tell my kids that they can talk about anything with me. If they want to talk about fun they are having with my XWW's BF, then I just say things like "that sounds like fun" or "I'm glad you are having a great time" but don't really engage them for details. My thought process is that as their father I am the rock and can handle anything that happens to me, including hearing about things that could be unintentionally hurtful. The kids on the other hand shouldn't have to hold anything in that they are experiencing and want to talk about, since I don't want to put any burden on them. As you move further from your divorce this will get easier, but the first 6 months are a b****.


----------



## Canada75

Bananapeel said:


> I'd recommend you rethink this approach in the future. I tell my kids that they can talk about anything with me. If they want to talk about fun they are having with my XWW's BF, then I just say things like "that sounds like fun" or "I'm glad you are having a great time" but don't really engage them for details. My thought process is that as their father I am the rock and can handle anything that happens to me, including hearing about things that could be unintentionally hurtful. The kids on the other hand shouldn't have to hold anything in that they are experiencing and want to talk about, since I don't want to put any burden on them. As you move further from your divorce this will get easier, but the first 6 months are a b****.


This is how it has been, it was my therapist who said no....you need to stop this. It isn't healthy for you....I have to agree. He said I needed to explain to my son that since mommy moved out and decided to be with someone else that there are now two separate lives and two separate relationships and they should be kept separate from one another. When he is with me, it should stay about us and we should enjoy our time together instead of talking about her and what she does with her time and who she does it with.


----------



## Canada75

There were a lot of good points and I decided to take my son on her weekend. It does still bug me a bit as she is so out to lunch that she thinks spending time with her new guy is more important then her son.....but the fog is thick and who knows when if ever it will dissipate. 3 weekend in a row.....I should be happy......I guess I just feel bad for my son. He will be disappointed but I'd rather take him then have her incorporate him into their weekend plans.
Thanks everyone.....I thought one person would of agreed to my new stance of not taking him anymore on her days. It was more of trying to get her to notice what she has been doing. It would hit her harder if she had to leave him with a sitter to go off and live it up with her new guy. Thought that might snap her out of it quicker and my son would see what she is like now......guess that's not fair to him. Bugs me I'm cleaning up the destruction she has left in her wake. Anyways, will plan something fun that weekend.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Canada75 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already done so, you need to let your son know that his mother had an affair and that led to the divorce. Children deserve to know the truth, and it is unfair to keep it from them, especially since they will partly blame you or even themselves if they don't know the true story.
> 
> I think laying that on a 10 year old would be unfair. He is a smart kid...he will figure it out one day.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be unfair to your child for him not to know the truth and to allow your ex to spin the facts. He is old enough to understand and though it will be difficult the truth will not harm him. Your wife's infidelity will harm him, but not knowing the facts. Research indicates that children as old as 4 should be told. My children were told the truth were better off for it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Canada75

Rick Blaine said:


> Canada75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would be unfair to your child for him not to know the truth and to allow your ex to spin the facts. He is old enough to understand and though it will be difficult the truth will not harm him. Your wife's infidelity will harm him, but not knowing the facts. Research indicates that children as old as 4 should be told. My children were told the truth were better off for it.
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to disagree. Please link your sources, I'm interested to read them.
Click to expand...


----------



## Elizabeth001

Canada75 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to disagree. Please link your sources, I'm interested to read them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you...10 is too young.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Rick Blaine

Canada75 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to disagree. Please link your sources, I'm interested to read them.
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Willard Harley has written several books on marriage and is an expert on infidelity. He has saved tens of thousands of marriages with his counseling and writing. He says exposure to children should start as early as 4 years old. Here is what he says about exposure to children:
> 
> This first link is all about exposure of affairs, but scroll down to the "Exposure to Children" window pain to learn what he says about exposing to children and why affairs should be exposed to them.
> 
> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums
> 
> I mentioned in another post to you how children are influenced by wayward parents and how they learn lessons from it. Here is what Dr. Harley says about the impact of infidelity on children and the problem with rug sweeping:
> 
> Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn
Click to expand...


----------



## Rick Blaine

Elizabeth001 said:


> Canada75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you...10 is too young.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Elizabeth,
> Please see my reply to Canada and check out the links I sent him.
Click to expand...


----------



## Elizabeth001

Rick Blaine said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elizabeth,
> 
> Please see my reply to Canada and check out the links I sent him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but I will decline. My children are grown and have kids of their own. My DIL refuses to do anything other than what the doctor tells her and I am of the mind that good parents need to follow their instincts. If OP thinks his child is not quite ready for the knowledge, then I say more power to him. I wouldn't either unless my 10 year old was very mature for his age. Kids have a way of blaming themselves for adult situations, even though they are helpless to solve the problem. Let kids be kids and let the adults handle adult situations.
> 
> Just my personal opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Canada75 said:


> There were a lot of good points and I decided to take my son on her weekend. It does still bug me a bit as she is so out to lunch that she thinks spending time with her new guy is more important then her son.....but the fog is thick and who knows when if ever it will dissipate. 3 weekend in a row.....I should be happy......I guess I just feel bad for my son. He will be disappointed but I'd rather take him then have her incorporate him into their weekend plans.
> Thanks everyone.....I thought one person would of agreed to my new stance of not taking him anymore on her days. It was more of trying to get her to notice what she has been doing. It would hit her harder if she had to leave him with a sitter to go off and live it up with her new guy. Thought that might snap her out of it quicker and my son would see what she is like now......guess that's not fair to him. Bugs me I'm cleaning up the destruction she has left in her wake. Anyways, will plan something fun that weekend.


You aren't "cleaning up the destruction she has left in her wake", you are being the responsible parent. Try to keep that in mind. The only person who can clean up the wake is your ex, and so far she has not made the effort to try. Your son is smart, he will see what is happening, and if it continues he will come to resent the new guy because he will have taken his place as the focus of his mother's attention. She did this to herself, it is not your problem. You can't force her to understand anything. Be there for your son, you didn't "take" him for the weekend, you get to enjoy extra time with him - make the most of it!


----------



## Ynot

Canada75 said:


> This is how it has been, it was my therapist who said no....you need to stop this. It isn't healthy for you....I have to agree. He said I needed to explain to my son that since mommy moved out and decided to be with someone else that there are now two separate lives and two separate relationships and they should be kept separate from one another. When he is with me, it should stay about us and we should enjoy our time together instead of talking about her and what she does with her time and who she does it with.


It isn't "healthy" for you because you aren't healthy now. Please read what you wrote "YOU need to stop this" I am sure he was talking about obsessing about something you can't control. I was once in your similar shoes as yours, I obsessed about things I could not change. When I finally accepted what had happened things got much better for ME, just like they will for YOU. 
In the meantime, you son is innocent. Regardless of what some are saying, he does not need to try to process adult situations based on adult emotions that he has no clue about. All he really needs to know is that YOU love him and he can talk to you about anything. 
You may not like all of it, but one thing I can tell you is that the more YOU are exposed to it, the more you will come to understand why you are better off without her in your life.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> It isn't "healthy" for you because you aren't healthy now. Please read what you wrote "YOU need to stop this" I am sure he was talking about obsessing about something you can't control. I was once in your similar shoes as yours, I obsessed about things I could not change. When I finally accepted what had happened things got much better for ME, just like they will for YOU.
> 
> In the meantime, you son is innocent. Regardless of what some are saying, he does not need to try to process adult situations based on adult emotions that he has no clue about. All he really needs to know is that YOU love him and he can talk to you about anything.
> 
> You may not like all of it, but one thing I can tell you is that the more YOU are exposed to it, the more you will come to understand why you are better off without her in your life.




I still want to not marry you...as soon as you get this other woman out of your system. 

🤣 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rick Blaine

Elizabeth001 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but I will decline. My children are grown and have kids of their own. My DIL refuses to do anything other than what the doctor tells her and I am of the mind that good parents need to follow their instincts. If OP thinks his child is not quite ready for the knowledge, then I say more power to him. I wouldn't either unless my 10 year old was very mature for his age. Kids have a way of blaming themselves for adult situations, even though they are helpless to solve the problem. Let kids be kids and let the adults handle adult situations.
> 
> Just my personal opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> You may decline to read what a highly successful marriage therapist says about exposure to children, but I hope that Canada will read what Dr. Harley says. We all have our opinions and perspectives, but Dr. Harley has worked with tens of thousands of couples. Unlike most marriage counselors who fail miserably, Dr. Harley has a remarkable track record of success. His perspective, unlike ours, is based on years of years of practical application.
> 
> Anecdotally, I did not sweep the truth under the rug with my children. I protected them from fights between me and their wayward mother, and I didn't bad mouth her in front of them. They need that protection. But they also needed to know the truth. If they don't know why it happened they would blame themselves or me, neither which is fair. Furthermore, they were not harmed by the disclosure one bit, although they were harmed by my wayward ex-wife's infidelity. THAT is the important distinction that betrayed spouses often miss. They are now well adjusted young adults who overcame adversity and are thriving today. Imagine that. If I had hovered over them like a helicopter parent shielding them from all ugly truths they would be ill prepared to cope with life in the real world.
> 
> I don't know what people think they are protecting their children from when they hide the truth. If someone were to come in a burglarize your home, would you tell your children that someone just messed up the house as a joke on the family just to hide from them the fact there are bad people in the world? We don't need to over-shelter children. There are unintended consequences that come with doing that.
> 
> If a parent breaks up the family because of infidelity, and no one shares with children what happened, they will find out later and learn that rug sweeping is okay. Even worse, because that behavior wasn't called out, they may find ways to rationalize their own waywardness when they are older. Fostering an environment of moral ambiguity is not good for children.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I still want to not marry you...as soon as you get this other woman out of your system.
> 
> 🤣
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I won't not marry you until you get over your obsession with Home Depot. That is a giant red flag in my book :redcard::laugh:


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may decline to read what a highly successful marriage therapist says about exposure to children, but I hope that Canada will read what Dr. Harley says. We all have our opinions and perspectives, but Dr. Harley has worked with tens of thousands of couples. Unlike most marriage counselors who fail miserably, Dr. Harley has a remarkable track record of success. His perspective, unlike ours, is based on years of years of practical application.
> 
> Anecdotally, I did not sweep the truth under the rug with my children. I protected them from fights between me and their wayward mother, and I didn't bad mouth her in front of them. They need that protection. But they also needed to know the truth. If they don't know why it happened they would blame themselves or me, neither which is fair. Furthermore, they were not harmed by the disclosure one bit, although they were harmed by my wayward ex-wife's infidelity. THAT is the important distinction that betrayed spouses often miss. They are now well adjusted young adults who overcame adversity and are thriving today. Imagine that. If I had hovered over them like a helicopter parent shielding them from all ugly truths they would be ill prepared to cope with life in the real world.
> 
> I don't know what people think they are protecting their children from when they hide the truth. If someone were to come in a burglarize your home, would you tell your children that someone just messed up the house as a joke on the family just to hide from them the fact there are bad people in the world? We don't need to over-shelter children. There are unintended consequences that come with doing that.
> 
> If a parent breaks up the family because of infidelity, and no one shares with children what happened, they will find out later and learn that rug sweeping is okay. Even worse, because that behavior wasn't called out, they may find ways to rationalize their own waywardness when they are older. Fostering an environment of moral ambiguity is not good for children.
> 
> 
> 
> That is all good and everything, but I think you missed this part "The goal is to *save* your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs." In the OP's case, his marriage is already destroyed, so exposing this to his kids benefits who exactly? Dr Harley, may be great at saving marriages where both sides desire to save it, but none of his advice is worth a crap if both sides do not want to work at it., which again is not the case of the OP.
Click to expand...


----------



## Marc878

Canada75 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already done so, you need to let your son know that his mother had an affair and that led to the divorce. Children deserve to know the truth, and it is unfair to keep it from them, especially since they will partly blame you or even themselves if they don't know the true story.
> 
> I think laying that on a 10 year old would be unfair. He is a smart kid...he will figure it out one day.
> 
> 
> 
> At 10 he's old enough to know the sterilized version of what ended the family. Kids sometimes blame themselves in these situations. Hiding or lying about the truth isn't going to do him any good.
Click to expand...


----------



## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I won't not marry you until you get over your obsession with Home Depot. That is a giant red flag in my book :redcard::laugh:




And see? You NEVER listen to me dear. I'm a Lowes girl...YOU'RE the Home Depot guy. Oy vey...what to do with you ?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rick Blaine

Ynot said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is all good and everything, but I think you missed this part "The goal is to *save* your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs." In the OP's case, his marriage is already destroyed, so exposing this to his kids benefits who exactly? Dr Harley, may be great at saving marriages where both sides desire to save it, but none of his advice is worth a crap if both sides do not want to work at it., which again is not the case of the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. While Dr. Harley's prime concern is saving marriages he has other concerns beyond that objective, which he clearly addresses. Had you read the links you would understand that. Besides that, Cherry picking that smaller point doesn't provide a sufficient counter to my broader assertion.
Click to expand...


----------



## Marc878

Canada75 said:


> A question....Since my ex moved out (found out much later she had someone else) she has constantly been busy on some of the days she has our son(50/50 custody) At first I would say of course I could take him because really I was trying to nice her back. Then I started getting angry with her because my son would ask me why, and now since the papers have been signed I have refused to take him on her days and let her figure it out. I stopped watching him so she could have private time with her new guy as I couldn't mentally deal with that anymore. Now they all just hang out together....well that backfired!!
> 
> Nope, you have to live your life and you can't control anything she does.
> 
> So the question.....whats up with that?? Anyone go through this and come to realize what they did. My son hasn't figured her out yet, but he has been ditched one way or another a few times a month(well 15 days) over almost 9 months. I have not once made plans on days that I have him because I know my time with him now is precious and make the most of it.
> 
> Does it have something to do with "the fog" or her new relationship, new life or has she really just lost the plot. It frustrates me to no end because I can't stand seeing my son disappointed.
> I have totally and finally completely gone NC except for very short and to the point text or email only regarding our son. It feels good not having to talk to her. When she does email, she gets no reply unless it is about our son.
> 
> Glad you finally figured this out. She's not and probably never was who you thought she was. It's not fog.
> 
> Example that made me write this, I switched weekends with her for a family event I wanted to take our son too and she said that's fine.
> 30 mins later she emailed me saying that our son really loved spending time with me so If I wanted to have him both weekends that would be fine with her as there really isn't anything to do at her place....what the what?? It's like I'm dealing with a teenager. I know and you know that in that 30 mins her and POSOM thought up some plans they might be able to do.....well I think they did...it wasn't her being nice.
> Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has dealt with a wayward spouse/MLC acting as if they have no responsibility anymore.
> Just want to say that she loves our son and has been a great mother his whole life, but after she left and entered the fog she is a totally different person...like Jekyll and Hyde....it's scary really how a switch can be flicked off and she is just gone like that.


You take him if you can or want to and let her figure her end out. It's totally out of your hands now. Start living your own life if you want to have one.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Rick Blaine said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may decline to read what a highly successful marriage therapist says about exposure to children, but I hope that Canada will read what Dr. Harley says. We all have our opinions and perspectives, but Dr. Harley has worked with tens of thousands of couples. Unlike most marriage counselors who fail miserably, Dr. Harley has a remarkable track record of success. His perspective, unlike ours, is based on years of years of practical application.
> 
> 
> 
> Anecdotally, I did not sweep the truth under the rug with my children. I protected them from fights between me and their wayward mother, and I didn't bad mouth her in front of them. They need that protection. But they also needed to know the truth. If they don't know why it happened they would blame themselves or me, neither which is fair. Furthermore, they were not harmed by the disclosure one bit, although they were harmed by my wayward ex-wife's infidelity. THAT is the important distinction that betrayed spouses often miss. They are now well adjusted young adults who overcame adversity and are thriving today. Imagine that. If I had hovered over them like a helicopter parent shielding them from all ugly truths they would be ill prepared to cope with life in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what people think they are protecting their children from when they hide the truth. If someone were to come in a burglarize your home, would you tell your children that someone just messed up the house as a joke on the family just to hide from them the fact there are bad people in the world? We don't need to over-shelter children. There are unintended consequences that come with doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> If a parent breaks up the family because of infidelity, and no one shares with children what happened, they will find out later and learn that rug sweeping is okay. Even worse, because that behavior wasn't called out, they may find ways to rationalize their own waywardness when they are older. Fostering an environment of moral ambiguity is not good for children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...he's one guy. I would still go with my gut instinct. I don't feel like I rug swept anything with my boys. If anything, I regret over sharing some things with them. They turned out great anyway  I guess I'm a highly successful mother but not many people pay attention to me either. lol
> 
> I don't agree with helicopter parenting by any means but what's happening in the adults bedrooms are not their concern. 13-16? Post puberty? Different story. Even then, I'm not so sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> And see? You NEVER listen to me dear. I'm a Lowes girl...YOU'RE the Home Depot guy. Oy vey...what to do with you ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey babe, what can I say, I am a home improvement super store playa! :rofl:


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. While Dr. Harley's prime concern is saving marriages he has other concerns beyond that objective, which he clearly addresses. Had you read the links you would understand that. Besides that, Cherry picking that smaller point doesn't provide a sufficient counter to my broader assertion.
> 
> 
> 
> Your links were to discussion forums. The sentence I quoted was from one of your links. And far from cherry picking, the entire point of that thread was about SAVING your marriage, not about inflicting pain on someone else. The OP's ex is already doing a great job destroying her relationship with her son, so while pile on? Other than to get revenge. It is rug sweeping when things happen between two individuals go undiscussed, not in not exposing a ten year old who may or may not understand exactly what the issues are.
Click to expand...


----------



## *Deidre*

Just keep being a good dad, and making him feel loved. He will grow up some day, and realize who was there for him and who wasn't. But, while it can be frustrating, you can't do her part for her, or hope she ''gets it.'' Just try to do your best for your son, and I think it's a good idea to keep the contact with her very minimal. Sorry your child is caught in all of this.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Ynot said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your links were to discussion forums. The sentence I quoted was from one of your links. And far from cherry picking, the entire point of that thread was about SAVING your marriage, not about inflicting pain on someone else. The OP's ex is already doing a great job destroying her relationship with her son, so while pile on? Other than to get revenge. It is rug sweeping when things happen between two individuals go undiscussed, not in not exposing a ten year old who may or may not understand exactly what the issues are.
> 
> 
> 
> It is rug sweeping if the kids don't know why the relationship ended. Dr. Harley is clear that they should know even as young 4. This doesn't mean children should be told the ugly details. No one is advocating that. There are age-appropriate ways of communicating this to children, such as, "Your mom is divorcing me and leaving because she chose a new boyfriend, and that is something married people don't do." That's all that needs to be said.
Click to expand...


----------



## Rick Blaine

Elizabeth001 said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...he's one guy. I would still go with my gut instinct. I don't feel like I rug swept anything with my boys. If anything, I regret over sharing some things with them. They turned out great anyway  I guess I'm a highly successful mother but not many people pay attention to me either. lol
> 
> I don't agree with helicopter parenting by any means but what's happening in the adults bedrooms are not their concern. 13-16? Post puberty? Different story. Even then, I'm not so sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if they knew about the affair then you didn't rug sweep. If you hid it from them then you did.
> 
> But if you "over-shared" then sounds like you didn't rug sweep, but you didn't protect them either. As I said in my post, I protected my children by not bad mouthing their mother or going into graphic, unnecessary details. I simply let them know why the family was splitting up: their mother had an affair. They didn't have to try and figure it out themselves, read between the lines, and believe the half truths of their wayward mother. The truth set them free.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is rug sweeping if the kids don't know why the relationship ended. No it isn't Dr. Harley is clear that they should know even as young 4. Yes, if you want to save your marriage This doesn't mean children should be told the ugly details.How else to explain mom was cheating unless you explain what cheating means in the context of marriage No one is advocating that.You are! There are age-appropriate ways of communicating this to children, such as, "Your mom is divorcing me and leaving because she chose a new boyfriend, and that is something married people don't do." Um, when the kid goes to hang out with mom and her new BF he already knows that That's all that needs to be said.
> 
> 
> 
> So the OP should just state the obvious?
> 
> It isn't rug sweeping! Rug sweeping would be if I hid something from you. But it wouldn't be rug sweeping to someone else, because it is between us. All the kids need to know is mom and dad are no longer together, they simply cannot understand the concept of cheating or having an affair, because those are things adults do to each other and he isn't an adult yet. He only knows parental love, he has no concept of romantic love. As for Dr Harley, as I said I am sure he "saved" his fair share of marriages, but if one side isn't interested he couldn't do squat. And that was the case for the OP, so your blind acceptance of all things Dr Harley is misdirected in this case.
Click to expand...


----------



## Canada75

Don't worry everyone, I wouldn't tell my 10 year that mommy had an affair and left me. He is smart enough at the moment to understand they hang out an awful lot and one day in the future the light bulb will go off and he will get it. If he has questions, I would answer them. I don't bad mouth her and he knows I tried everything I could to try and get our family back together. He also knows I was the only one trying. 
Whatever, I told him we get the next 3 weekends together and he said "YES!!" that is all I needed to hear!!


----------



## Rick Blaine

Ynot said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the OP should just state the obvious?
> 
> It isn't rug sweeping! Rug sweeping would be if I hid something from you. But it wouldn't be rug sweeping to someone else, because it is between us. All the kids need to know is mom and dad are no longer together, they simply cannot understand the concept of cheating or having an affair, because those are things adults do to each other and he isn't an adult yet. He only knows parental love, he has no concept of romantic love. As for Dr Harley, as I said I am sure he "saved" his fair share of marriages, but if one side isn't interested he couldn't do squat. And that was the case for the OP, so your blind acceptance of all things Dr Harley is misdirected in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to address the substance of the argument and attempt to deflect by again incorrectly asserting that Dr. Harley's sole purpose is to save marriages. You obviously know very little about him as he does in fact encourage divorce in cases where a full effort has been made to reconcile and the other spouse is unwilling.
> 
> Once again, there are age appropriate ways for children to learn about a parent's affair that don't require going into lurid details or detailed explanations. Cheating is cheating, and even a child can understand it. My 10 year old fully comprehended the gist of what was happening. Your assertion that children have no concept of romantic love is wrong.
> 
> If Canada chooses to withhold this information from his child that is his prerogative. But other betrayed spouses reading this should understand that exposing the wayward spouse's infidelity does not hurt the child. What hurts the child is the wayward spouse's decision to break up the family.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to address the substance of the argument and attempt to deflect by again incorrectly asserting that Dr. Harley's sole purpose is to save marriages. You obviously know very little about him as he does in fact encourage divorce in cases where a full effort has been made to reconcile and the other spouse is unwilling.
> I didn't fail to address or attempt to deflect, nor did I incorrectly assert anything. The links you posted was about SAVING your marriage, not about dealing with an idiotic ex. I actually have some of his books, I have read them and as I said I am sure he has help to save many many marriages, but that was when the horse was in front of the cart, which again is not the case here and something which in your blind loyalty to all things Dr Harley you appear to be blind to.
> Once again, there are age appropriate ways for children to learn about a parent's affair that don't require going into lurid details or detailed explanations. Cheating is cheating, and even a child can understand it. My 10 year old fully comprehended the gist of what was happening. Your assertion that children have no concept of romantic love is wrong.
> right, there are age appropriate ways of saying mommy and daddy are getting a divorce because things are not working out, like "mommy and daddy are getting a divorce because things aren't working out". First off the kid is already aware that his parents are no longer together, and unless you are willing to share the lurid details (as you know or imagine them to be) you are probably best off to not open this can of worms with your kid. Cheating is cheating so unless you want to explain why it so bad to cause a divorce, it is probably best to just keep it very simple and just say mommy and daddy are getting a divorce because things aren't working out. The gist of what your ten year old got was that "daddy is very angry at mommy" because I am sure that his mommy was telling him something very different, so why confuse the kid further with additional details? Why not act like an adult? Because the point you keep is ignoring is that exposure is part of the reconciliation after an affair. So the kid is living in a house with two parents who are not getting along at the moment, it is important for them to understand that they are not the cause of the issue, one of his parent made the mistake but together they are working on it. IOW, both parents will be presenting the same truth. But again that is not the case here.
> If Canada chooses to withhold this information from his child that is his prerogative. But other betrayed spouses reading this should understand that exposing the wayward spouse's infidelity does not hurt the child. What hurts the child is the wayward spouse's decision to break up the family.
> 
> 
> 
> The OP has wisely chosen to rise above his anger at his ex and be the great parent he is capable of being. And I agree that others WHO WANT TO SAVE THEIR MARRIAGES should explain to their children what happened and how it is affecting the family because they will be presenting a united front. You are still harboring a great deal of anger apparently, I suggest you accept what has happened and move on. No good comes from beating a dead horse. The OP apparently understands this.
Click to expand...


----------



## Rick Blaine

Ynot said:


> Rick Blaine said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP has wisely chosen to rise above his anger at his ex and be the great parent he is capable of being. And I agree that others WHO WANT TO SAVE THEIR MARRIAGES should explain to their children what happened and how it is affecting the family because they will be presenting a united front. You are still harboring a great deal of anger apparently, I suggest you accept what has happened and move on. No good comes from beating a dead horse. The OP apparently understands this.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. You are so far off on your take of where I am coming from, and I'm embarrassed for you. My advice does not come from anger. And fortunately, when I was in the thick of my wife's infidelity, I was able to rise above my emotions in terms of dealing with my children. They never heard me badmouth their mother, and friends and family often comment on how I am my children's rock. I let them know the truth not out of spite, but out of fairness to them and me. Letting the children know the truth is not act that comes from emotions or vindictiveness, and it should be told even if the betrayed spouse decides to file for divorce. Honesty is the best policy.
> 
> That is my last word on letting children know the truth. Any further discussion becomes just repetition and I don't want our personal squabble to detract from Canada's thread.
> 
> Canada will make his choice, and the most important thing is that he take every opportunity he has to take care of his children and give them all that they need in this difficult time for his family.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. You are so far off on your take of where I am coming from, and I'm embarrassed for you. My advice does not come from anger. And fortunately, when I was in the thick of my wife's infidelity, I was able to rise above my emotions in terms of dealing with my children. They never heard me badmouth their mother, and friends and family often comment on how I am my children's rock. I let them know the truth not out of spite, but out of fairness to them and me. Letting the children know the truth is not act that comes from emotions or vindictiveness, and it should be told even if the betrayed spouse decides to file for divorce. Honesty is the best policy.
> You advised the OP to threaten the other man, hardly the choice of someone NOT in control of their emotions. And if you told your kids that their mother is a cheater with same venom you spewed on the OM you did badmouth their mother. As far as the kids are concerned IN A DIVORCE situation honesty is the best policy - mom and dad are getting divorced because things aren't working out. You can say what you want but exposure only works when BOTH parents present a united front. If the OP said she cheated and she said the OP is a POS, who is the kid going to believe?
> That is my last word on letting children know the truth. Any further discussion becomes just repetition and I don't want our personal squabble to detract from Canada's thread.
> Yes it probably is wise for you to stop giving bad advice based on an idea about saving your marriage, when there is no marriage to save
> Canada will make his choice, and the most important thing is that he take every opportunity he has to take care of his children and give them all that they need in this difficult time for his family.
> 
> 
> 
> The OP has made his choice and I am sure is quite capable of taking full advantage of this opportunity to take care of his children without the need to open the door for any further confusion for them. I am sorry you don't understand that Harley's advice was in regards to trying to save a marriage and think it should be applied universally. It is one of the real draw backs people have when trying to recover from such a traumatic event - they read a book that makes sense to them and think it applies to everything.
Click to expand...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Keep taking him and make sure you document it. If this continues, I would suggest you look into getting your custody agreement reconfigured in your favor, especially if you are paying her child support.


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> If you haven't already done so, you need to let your son know that his mother had an affair and that led to the divorce. Children deserve to know the truth, and it is unfair to keep it from them, especially since they will partly blame you or even themselves if they don't know the true story.
> 
> My children do not accept the new man in my ex-wife's life because they know he played a role in breaking up the family. This is important because I want them to learn proper boundaries and not be morally confused. They will one day get married, and I want them to take their vows seriously and not feel it's okay to stray instead of working out the problems. And while they don't accept my XWW's affair partner, they like my girlfriend who I met AFTER the divorce. My ex-wife is livid over this, and she can't understand why the children accept my new girlfriend but reject her affair partner. Waywards just can't accept the bed they made. I would be lying if I said I wasn't completely enjoying her meltdowns (though I hate the affect they have on my girls). I know that I'm being small minded and unchristian, but after all she put me through with her affairs I just can't help enjoying it.
> 
> One other thing. I have made it clear with the POSOM that I am his enemy. Had he lived on this side of the pond I would have confronted him when the affair first started. Why men don't do this is a mystery to me. But I was able to get this wanker's cell phone number through snooping. I sent him the following text: "My wife has decided to abandon her family for a *second* time due to an affair. This time with you. While I blame her mostly for this, you have a role. Stay away from my daughters and me. Any encounters you have with any of us would not be good for you."
> 
> I am not advocating violence, but I am advocating drawing a clear line and letting all parties know that there are consequences for infidelity and for breaking up a family. This isn't going to be accepted over time, and I will never make it comfortable for you.


So your wife cheated on you twice? No wonder you are angry. But your anger is misplaced, you have no idea what she told the other TWO guys, so why are they your enemy. You say there should be clear lines, but it doesn't sound like you adhered to them. The saying goes. "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"


----------



## oldshirt

I haven't read any of your other posts and I have not read any of the replies from the other posters because I do not need to. 

The reason your ex does this is because she is a selfish, entitled narcissist that only cares about her own enjoyment at the moment and does not care about anyone else. 

That is why she cheats in the first place and why she will always put her own wants and whims above everyone else, including your son. 

this is who and what she is. 

When you accept this fact and when you stop believing in magical thinking and think that she will magically become a caring, thoughtful person and when you stop thinking that she will think, feel and respond the same way you would - she will become very predictable to you. 

You will always be able to predict her actions and responses because she will always put her wants first and will always do things that benefit her even if they put other people out or hurt other people. 

Always. 

Even if she appears to do something 'nice' for someone else, it is always part of a bigger agenda that will benefit her some how. 

Always. 

If you go to the Chumplady website (which you should) that have a saying for this and that is - "Trust that they Suck."

That is a pretty powerful message. It means that you should always trust that they will always feather their own nest and always do what they want and what will benefit them at the expense of others. 

Always. 

Trust that she sucks and trust that she will always screw over other people to get what she wants.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Ynot said:


> So your wife cheated on you twice? No wonder you are angry. But your anger is misplaced, you have no idea what she told the other TWO guys, so why are they your enemy. You say there should be clear lines, but it doesn't sound like you adhered to them. The saying goes. "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"


You keep bringing anger into this, but it has nothing to do with it. That is your straw man. 

You don't believe that affair partners are enemies? That's crazy to me, but it explains why you don't believe kids should know the truth. Conflict avoidance. Anyway, now that time has passed I spend little time thinking of my ex wife's affair partner and I don't let him own my resentment. Neither he nor my ex-wife will get that from me. All they will get from me is my silence. But I am glad he knows where I stand. It blows my mind that more betrayed spouses don't confront their spouse's affair partners. My kids, by they way, want no part of him. Unlike you they recognize the role he played in breaking up our family. 

As far as "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" goes, I gave my ex-wife a second chance because I believe everyone deserves one. We all make mistakes, even big ones. Moreover, making the effort to preserve my family was worth it. Finally, I also took my vows seriously, including for better or worse. Many marriages have recovered from infidelity and have grown stronger. I am glad I fought for my marriage, but there will be no third chapter. I have moved forward with my life, and I am happy with my daughters and my new lady. I wish the same happiness for Canada in his future.


----------



## Ynot

Rick Blaine said:


> You keep bringing anger into this, but it has nothing to do with it. That is your straw man.
> It isn't MY straw man, it is your reality. Just take a look at your next statement below v.
> You don't believe that affair partners are enemies? That's crazy to me, but it explains why you don't believe kids should know the truth. Conflict avoidance. Anyway, now that time has passed I spend little time thinking of my ex wife's affair partner and I don't let him own my resentment. Neither he nor my ex-wife will get that from me. All they will get from me is my silence. But I am glad he knows where I stand. It blows my mind that more betrayed spouses don't confront their spouse's affair partners. My kids, by they way, want no part of him. Unlike you they recognize the role he played in breaking up our family.
> No I do not believe EVERY affair partner is an enemy. Do you know what they have been told? Do you know if the CS told them they were married? Or divorced? Or separated? You do not know squat about how the affair came about, how it started and why it came about. That is probably the root of your misunderstanding about exposure. Exposure works in the context of reconciliation because it allows everyone to be on the same page. Exposure is just revenge in other cases because, as far as I am concerned, if my wife had been cheating on me, she had already betrayed our trust and I could never trust her again, so why bother? I have far better things to do with my time and my life, than by playing super sleuth to discover their cell number, contact information, address, name, facebook page etc. To me wasting all that time just keeps them in control of your life and keeps YOU from moving on.
> As far as "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" goes, I gave my ex-wife a second chance because I believe everyone deserves one. We all make mistakes, even big ones. Moreover, making the effort to preserve my family was worth it. Finally, I also took my vows seriously, including for better or worse. Many marriages have recovered from infidelity and have grown stronger. I am glad I fought for my marriage, but there will be no third chapter. I have moved forward with my life, and I am happy with my daughters and my new lady. I wish the same happiness for Canada in his future.


And I never judged you for this, I judged you for your reaction to this. You were the one who gave her a second chance, you are also the one who reacted angrily ad lashed out at a man, whom you know absolutely nothing about, who acted on a situation that you have no idea he understood it to be. In regards to the rest of your life - I truly do hope you have moved on. I hope you are able to keep your anger in check and I am glad that Canada has wisely chosen to protect his child from his anger.


----------

