# If you want to really understand what hell is....



## JohnMcCloud (Aug 15, 2011)

.....


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## Wingsoflove (Jul 7, 2011)

I didn't fall in love with another person, but I know what its like to watch the person you love die inside. You can see it in their eyes everyday. I wake up everyday thinking to myself "Why?!" I don't know who I was then. No it was not worth it. I've lost the love of my life.
Hang in there


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your gf has flaws too  Promise.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Unless you decieved your AP, by lying to her, and pretending to not be married-

--she knew she was in the process of HOMEWRECKING------She gets no sympathy, she knew every step of the way---she was helping to rip an innocent family apart


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## Currant (Mar 18, 2011)

No win situation for everybody


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What an enertaining tale!! Are you kidding - do you really think that you two are in love? That's not love it's "in love" easy to get into and impossible to sustain. That dullness you feel with your wife that's indicative of your lack of imagination and inability to created excitement.

If you did not need to create false excitement, you would have noticed that you had real love in the palm of your hands but you tossed it away. Deep satisfying love if you were the type of man who recognized value. 

Love happens when you know a person faults but you chose to love them - you do so because you have a shared history, shared accomplishments, times that you supported each other through difficult times, children that you both nurtured and loved, someone that you could count on to have your back. 

People like you, John in a cloud, who look for the fresh rush and are not in possession of character and substance. You deny the importance of a person you should love, respect and appreciate to have dinner with a shinny peice for the excitement you think you are entitled to. Do you think that you may yourself be dull and insubstantial but you project dullness onto people of substance and worth like your wife? 

You are not the bad guy you think you are so don't flatter yourself. You seem a breezy easy type of man who can not be trusted with anything of value because you lose it. It is probably more comfortable to flatter yourself that you are a bad guy than to face yourself for what you really are - a man so frivolous as to toss away a well polished diamond to pursue a shiny penny. 

BTW, that girl you think loves you will eventually see through your act - when she comes out of her fog and gets to know the real you - an inconstant man in the throws of love drama for his own excitement and fantasy with no ability to stay engaged . She will quickly lose sexual attraction to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> What an enertaining tale!! Are you kidding - do you really think that you two are in love? That's not love it's "in love" easy to get into and impossible to sustain. That dullness you feel with your wife that's indicative of your lack of imagination and inability to created excitement.
> 
> If you did not need to create false excitement, you would have noticed that you had real love in the palm of your hands but you tossed it away. Deep satisfying love if you were the type of man who recognized value.
> 
> ...


Nice job Catherine, now why don't you go over to seductive's thread and tell her the same thing you told John. Or is that a woman thing to shame male cheaters and not female cheaters?


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

morituri said:


> Nice job Catherine, now why don't you go over to seductive's thread and tell her the same thing you told John. Or is that a woman thing to shame male cheaters and not female cheaters?


Far out.:scratchhead:

Every time a woman dares make a post that makes perfect sense to a male OP on here, why does it then have to be justifiable or true only if she posted in the threads you like. I find it perplexing when people do that, and have seen it done a few times to women on here. 

As to the OP, Catherine was spot on.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

morituri said:


> Nice job Catherine, now why don't you go over to seductive's thread and tell her the same thing you told John. Or is that a woman thing to shame male cheaters and not female cheaters?


And what would you like me to say to female cheaters to mollify you make you feel better? Give me a script to follow I am certain you could come up with something. Or direct me to the threads you would like me to post upon to satisfy your fine sense of justice and demonstrated fair consideration of both genders. I would be glad to follow your high principals of fairness if I could find any evidence of the same. 

You consider what I said shaming. What is your definition of shaming? Is shaming ok if I did it to men and women or are you making a principled argument against shaming of cheaters in general or just male cheaters. Are you certain that some of your coments to female cheaters have been worse than shaming - in fact caustic, rage filled, personal attacks. Should I follow that script for this man? 

Shaming - you don't think that cheaters should be ashamed of humiliating their spouses or is just female cheaters that should be shamed? Well why don't you start a male cheaters support group since you have sympathy for them. In fact, I suggest you do something effective to support this cheater - take my points in turn and post refutation so he feels good about himself. Come on let's see what you got.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I said 'Nice job' because I agreed with your assessment of John's statements because it was right on the money. 

And as far as a script is concerned, you already have it - you just need to change the names and genders.

Don't be mad, I'm just messin' with ya girl.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

John, first let me say that I sit - more or less - on the same bench as you do. So in what I'm about to say every time I say "you", I also mean "I." I get where you're coming from. The thing is - no one cares about you're pain, except maybe your wife if you're really lucky. Whatever pain you have - you earned, it is the price of your actions. Call it stupid tax, penance, whatever you want but it is yours and you earned every bit of it. You're right that everyone loses in an affair, that's because they are among the most selfish and stupid things a married person can do. You were wrong when you said everyone dies "a little bit" inside. Everyone dies a lot inside. The scars are deep and permanent in many ways, for everyone your affair touches. I told my affair partner while still in my affair that what I was afraid of most is that both she and my wife would end up hurt, I wasn't really worried about myself. I vividly remember after I realized I wanted out of my A searching for that magic rabbit hole that would take me out of wonderland and put me on the outside of my affair with no pain, no mess, no casualties, and no one hurt. I never could find that rabbit hole and finally just had to walkout of my affair through the front door and take all the pain and consequences that came with it. I hate that I hurt my wife and I actually do hate that my AP got hurt. I didn't deceive my AP about my marriage or that I would ever leave my wife, but I still own a part of her pain. I have truck loads of sympathy for my wife, her pain I gave her, she did nothing to deserve it. I have no sympathy for myself or my AP, we earned our pain - as did you - and now we have to live with it. Such is the price of cheating.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Hell is finding out that your spouse was cheating on you while you were oblivious, but most of your "friends" knew. 

Hell is being in limbo where you are torn on whether or not you can salvage a relationship where the other person isn't fully engaged. 

Hell is realizing that all the time and energy you put into a relationship is down the tubes when it can't be fixed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Soccerfan73 said:


> Hell is finding out that your spouse was cheating on you while you were oblivious, but most of your "friends" knew.
> 
> Hell is being in limbo where you are torn on whether or not you can salvage a relationship where the other person isn't fully engaged.
> 
> Hell is realizing that all the time and energy you put into a relationship is down the tubes when it can't be fixed.


:iagree:

John until you can experience what is like to be betrayed, you really haven't experienced hell.


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## Ticonderoga (Jul 21, 2011)

Soccerfan73 said:


> Hell is realizing that all the time and energy you put into a relationship is down the tubes when it can't be fixed.



Amen to that one..


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## Ticonderoga (Jul 21, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> And what would you like me to say to female cheaters to mollify you make you feel better? Give me a script to follow I am certain you could come up with something. Or direct me to the threads you would like me to post upon to satisfy your fine sense of justice and demonstrated fair consideration of both genders. I would be glad to follow your high principals of fairness if I could find any evidence of the same.
> 
> You consider what I said shaming. What is your definition of shaming? Is shaming ok if I did it to men and women or are you making a principled argument against shaming of cheaters in general or just male cheaters. Are you certain that some of your coments to female cheaters have been worse than shaming - in fact caustic, rage filled, personal attacks. Should I follow that script for this man?
> 
> ...



Ouch !!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> Nice job Catherine, now why don't you go over to seductive's thread and tell her the same thing you told John. *Or is that a woman thing to shame male cheaters and not female cheaters*?


Ouch. The advice wasn't gender-specific. It's not about "shaming" only one gender. All cheating is bad, no matter which party does it. I do see now that you posted back. Still, expecting all women to be in every female cheater thread is a bit much, yeah? We can't all be in every thread at all times. The advice is the same though.



Syrum said:


> I find it perplexing when people do that, and have seen it done a few times to women on here.


I agree--I've seen it, too. 

Cat's post was really good. So was Sigma's.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

As a LS, all I can say to John is that despite all the pain he is realizing has happened, it is still clear to me from his choice of words that he really has no idea how much he really hurt his W, and that it was his deliberate actions that caused this. His view is still entirely selfish and he isn't a victim in this. That being said he is human and we all make mistakes so I'm not judging him as a person. John I hope you read this and can begin to accept and own up to what you've done, because right now you are still shielding yourself from the truth.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

You talk about how the A hurts everyone. Yes, that it does. But, you said everyone dies just a little. Well, I am not DS and I never once betrayed my ex husband in our 14 year long marriage. (we are now divorced) So, my not having the personal experience of being a cheater, I don't know what, if any guilt, may come from being a DS. Maybe the DS does only die *just a little*. But, let me tell you as the BS of a serial cheating husband, who constantly lied, who mentally and verbally abused me, who manipulated and had no regards for the pain he inflicted not only on me, but his own children, let me tell you that we (all of us betrayed spouses) die A LOT! 
Have you ever been betrayed? Have you ever had your guts spilled out on the ground? Have you dropped to the floor in physical pain because the betrayal does cause real, physical pain? Have you ever had to wonder why you were not good enough? Have you had had to wonder what you did wrong that would cause your spouse to seek outside the marriage? Have you ever been lied to the way you had to lie to your wife? Have you ever been deceived by someone the way you did your wife?
Think about every dirty, rotten, stinky, deceitful move you made against your wife to have your A, and then put yourself in her shoes. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Would you die only a little?
Affairs are not little. They are huge. In fact, they are so huge, and they cause so much pain and so much damage, that I personally believe that those involved in extra marital affairs should be prosecuted by law.


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## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

Are you working on fixing the problems within yourself that caused you to make such selfish choices? It's not enough to feel bad about the pain you caused. You need to identify and fix the flaws in yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> I don't know what, if any guilt, may come from being a DS. Maybe the DS does only die *just a little*.


I can assure you the DS (some) experience extreme guilt and it hurts them as well.

But I do believe the pain isn't comparable at all to the kind of pain the BS experiences. It's different. Being the BS is like having a machete go through your very core along with all the other stuff that goes along with it.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I can assure you the DS (some) experience extreme guilt and it hurts them as well.
> 
> But I do believe the pain isn't comparable at all to the kind of pain the BS experiences. It's different. Being the BS is like having a machete go through your very core along with all the other stuff that goes along with it.


while I do believe some DS's do eventually come out of their fog and feel genuine remorse, and pain over what they did, I don't believe they all do. Like my ex, for example. I don't believe my ex will ever be sorry.


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## terrified (Jul 26, 2011)

Hell is waking up everyday knowing my husband, my partner, my best friend f*cked another woman on my living room floor. Then watching our 4 year old daughter play games on the same floor.

Hell is watching my entire reality, my future, my past, my hopes and my dreams disappear as I try everyday to breath.

Hell is going to sleep every night knowing I gave all of myself to the man I love only to find out he had a girlfriend while I nearly died in an ER losing his baby.

You Sir, do not know hell. You may know bored, selfish, ageing and low morality but you do not know hell. You romanticized your reality out of pleasure and boredom. That is not hell, that is poor decision making.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

morituri said:


> Because I've seen the same pattern from SOME female members who are very vocal at excoriating male cheaters - and rightly so by the way - but are strangely absent when female cheaters - like seductive - show up here.
> 
> I gave Catherine the link to seductive's thread because her comments to John are so right on the money and should be said to seductive as well. So far she hasn't taken me up on my suggestion.


Who pee'd in your cereal? Catherine is an equal opportunity shamer. She doesn't see gender, she sees right vs. wrong.

To the OP, the person who hurts the MOST is your wife. She wasn't privy to what was going on behind her back, you and the OW were. It is beyond sad that you mention your "girlfriend's" sadness in the same sentence as your wife.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

AD's right there are all kinds of DS. Assuming we're not talking about a serial cheat and are talking about someone who had a one time affair that included real emotional involvement - In my experience there are three sources of pain for the DS. First the pain of coming out of the fog - very much like coming out of a drug addiction and yes it's physically painful to. Second, the pain of guilt and remorse of the hurt you've caused to everyone. Third, the pain of what you've done to yourself, of how you've compromised yourself, this one is like a bad bruise and the one I imagine is closest to what the BS feels. But like I said no one cares about the pain of the DS and rightly so. I would never presume to compare my pain to my wife's or any other BS. My pain hurt like hell but it was self inflicted, a BS is inflicted by the person they love and trust and therefore trumps any pain the DS feels.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I can assure you the DS (some) experience extreme guilt and it hurts them as well.
> 
> But I do believe the pain isn't comparable at all to the kind of pain the BS experiences. It's different. Being the BS is *like having a machete go through your very core* along with all the other stuff that goes along with it.


yep, exactly the feeling I can describe, though when I visualize it, its a katana going in through my collar down into my bowels. I never realized emotions could ever cut so deep and physically hurt so much.

I can't begin to empathize for the pain the DS goes through... realizing that your actions have destroyed so much must surely sting, I know there is some kind of pain, my WW told me all about it, she even tried to convince me it hurt her just as much as I was huirting. The only thing I saw from my WW is that she can't really even acknowledge that she cheated - she has herself convinced the marriage was already over, in reality the truth is too difficult for her to handle. It is sad for me to see that person I love become an empty souless vessel. In her new life she appears happy, more energetic and more alive on the outside, I'm sure she's convinced that'd the path to inner peace as well and just reinforces her decision that I was the one that made her unhappy, I just hope she can somehow find the true peace she needs.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> while I do believe some DS's do eventually come out of their fog and feel genuine remorse, and pain over what they did, I don't believe they all do. .


I agree. Some DS do not give a f. 



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Catherine is an *equal opportunity shamer*.


:rofl:



sigma1299 said:


> Third, the pain of what you've done to yourself, of how you've compromised yourself, this one is like a bad bruise and the one I imagine is closest to what the BS feels.


Oh that self-inflicted pain is bad but it still is nowhere NEAR to what the BS experiences/feels. No way. Not even on the same playing field. Sure, the ends my meet/touch, but no way is it comparable. 

Not. Even. Close.

An intentional self-inflicted wound is not the same as a betrayal you never saw coming. 

It's getting stabbed in the back and never anticipating it vs. seeing someone running at you with a knife and having the knowledge to prepare for it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Oh that self-inflicted pain is bad but it still is nowhere NEAR to what the BS experiences/feels. No way. Not even on the same playing field. Sure, the ends my meet/touch, but no way is it comparable.
> 
> Not.. Even. Close.


Didn't mean to imply that I thought it was - never for a second have I believed such a thing. I just think it is the closest, but by no means equal.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I hear you...but it's not even close. Don't even touch the pain of betrayal.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I hear you...but it's not even close. Don't even touch the pain of betrayal.


Sigma,

JB has experience both as a betrayed wife and as an unfaithful wife. Who better qualified to compare both sides. Take note John.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who pee'd in your cereal? Catherine is an equal opportunity shamer. She doesn't see gender, she sees right vs. wrong.
> 
> To the OP, the person who hurts the MOST is your wife. She wasn't privy to what was going on behind her back, you and the OW were. It is beyond sad that you mention your "girlfriend's" sadness in the same sentence as your wife.


Yes, I agree. Anytime the DS can have the same sympathy for the AP as they do for the hurt spouse, they are not truly sorry. The AP (in most cases) does know that the person is married and they make a choice to go ahead and be with them anyways. They plot, lie and scheme too. The AP, just the same as the DS, knowingly inflicts pain on another person. So, to give sympathy to the AP who knowingly and willing became involved with a married man, and then to compare the AP's pain to that of the BS's spouses pain, is crazy. There is no comparison of the two. The AP may have a bruised ego, but they will NEVER feel the pain that the BS felt.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

All right people stop ganging up on me  I get it - I know JB has a very unique perspective and I love to hear her insights. When I say closest I mean only that the addiction pain and guilt are something I don't think BS feel as they shouldn't so of the three I listed it is the closest, but again by no means equal. I know it's a bad comparison. Sorry to step off into the waters of the BS. I know I have no right to comment and shouldn't have presumed to do so. Please accept my sincere apologies.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Calm down. It's a paper cut. It's not going face first through the windshield.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> JB has experience both as a betrayed wife and as an unfaithful wife. Who better qualified to compare both sides.


Sometimes I feel like a schizo!  And sometimes I feel like I don't belong here. 



AppleDucklings said:


> The AP (in most cases) does know that the person is married and they make a choice to go ahead and be with them anyways.


True. I once read something a woman who studies/writse book on affairs (_Getting past the affair_?) described it saying "In an affair-there is usually a one-way window into the marriage, but not the other way around." So true. Most affair partners DO know the DS is married. It's rare the cases where they don't know. The one who has no clue is the betrayed (until the A is discovered, and people, we all know--almost ALWAYS...it gets found out some way or another... what's done int he dark alway comes to light)...



sigma1299 said:


> Sorry to step off into the waters of the BS.


This reads funny if you read it as "the waters of _bullsh-t_." 

Pray you never do step into those waters. Though if you ever do have the misfortune, you will understand _exactly_ what the rest of us are talking about.

I hate when the OP posts and runs...


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> This reads funny if you read it as "the waters of _bullsh-t_."


LMAO -  Didn't even see that!!

Had the same thought about the OP - it can be daunting to turn and face the music.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Affairs are not little. They are huge. In fact, they are so huge, and they cause so much pain and so much damage, that I personally believe that those involved in extra marital affairs should be prosecuted by law.


So, so true.
I've broken my wrist, dislocated my ankle, fractured my forearm, broken my nose, broken my fingers, broken my ribs three times (once playing squash!?! ), i've been knocked over by a minibus, fallen out of trees, face planted off bicycles, a couple of car crashes, skidded off a motorbike and fell from a garage roof.
I've lost friends through disease, I've lost friends through accidents, I've lost people from those I was friendly and fond of to those I know and love. Like most people, I've taken my share of knocks and scrapes both physically and emotionally, but nothing - with the exception of losing a child - comes close to the pain and personal destruction of an affair. The knowledge that the person you assumed would be your committed and loving life long partner has actually diverted their emotions and being to someone else and lied to you in the process is the single most demeaning and humiliating betrayal that someone could commit.
Hell is not breaking someones heart, that's guilt. Hell is when someone else destroys your understanding of reality, your understanding of love and your understanding of self. And when you're looking at those millions of different coloured pieces of a jigsaw puzzle floating around in your head, and you're trying to find some edge pieces - just something to help you get started putting everything together -the best that your destroyer of worlds can say to you is, 'I'm sorry.'
However, it is us who still has to find all those little pieces and make the best picture we can of them and we sometimes wonder: Are some of those pieces now missing?
We can never get the same picture back that we once had, but we will make it as pretty and interesting as we can. Just don't be upset if, when we've finished, one of those missing pieces had your face on it.

Regards

N-B


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Yes, I agree. Anytime the DS can have the same sympathy for the AP as they do for the hurt spouse, they are not truly sorry. The AP (in most cases) does know that the person is married and they make a choice to go ahead and be with them anyways. They plot, lie and scheme too. The AP, just the same as the DS, knowingly inflicts pain on another person. So, to give sympathy to the AP who knowingly and willing became involved with a married man, and then to compare the AP's pain to that of the BS's spouses pain, is crazy. There is no comparison of the two. The AP may have a bruised ego, but they will NEVER feel the pain that the BS felt.


I agree. Like with seductive's comment below



seductive said:


> Hey, I was following the threds here and the advice here is so good,so I dare to post here.
> I am the WW wife, I am living in other country for job for about 9 months.Here I meet someone in my work, first it was just friendship, then it becomes EA, we talk over whole night on skype(as OM lives in distant city) and it started for 2 weeks. Now I see its turning to be a PA. The OM wants me so much, I cant just ignore. *He loves me, understand me so well(he says IT..He feels me more than he understand)*. The day I decide to stop contacting I just get mad, I cant stay without contacting him, not at all, he just hypnotized me!!!
> But I know I am responsible for my action, I will not accuse my husband for this A, he is so wonderful husband and father of my 3 yr daughter, but he is so unexpressive of his love, shy and feel that appreciation will spoil me, so never appreciate me.
> 
> ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok I found that thing I was talking about.

It's Shirley Glass from "Surviving Infidelity"--here is the quote:

_Q: You use the metaphor of walls and windows in talking about affairs. 
Dr. G. There is almost always a wall of secrecy around the affair; the primary partner does not know what’s going on on the other side of that wall. *In the affair, there is often a window into the marriage, like a one-way mirror. To reconstruct the marriage, you have to reverse the walls and windows, put up a wall with the affair partner, and put up a window inside the marriage. *Answering a spouse’s questions about what happened in the affair is a way to reverse the process. It’s a matter of who’s on the inside and who’s on the outside? Sometimes people will open windows but not put up walls. Sometimes they put up walls but don’t open the windows. Unless you do both, you can not rebuild safety and trust in the marriage._

There are some interesting tidbits in this article/post if you want to check it out:

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> I agree. Like with seductive's comment below


She is still in the fog.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> while I do believe some DS's do eventually come out of their fog and feel genuine remorse, and pain over what they did, I don't believe they all do. Like my ex, for example. I don't believe my ex will ever be sorry.


:iagree: This couldn't be more true, I know several instances where the cheating spouse has never apologized even once. 

GM


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Not apologizing,,, Ahhhhh..... yes.
Could self absorbtion be so thick as to allow oneself to believe they are incapable of such a mistake, and further, if something like this has happened, it must have been because things were bad for years, therefore it is a result of the broken marriage that this affair has occurred?
---(wife said pretty much the same thing)
Delusional.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

AppleDucklings said:


> Yes, I agree. Anytime the DS can have the same sympathy for the AP as they do for the hurt spouse, they are not truly sorry. The AP (in most cases) does know that the person is married and they make a choice to go ahead and be with them anyways. They plot, lie and scheme too. The AP, just the same as the DS, knowingly inflicts pain on another person. So, to give sympathy to the AP who knowingly and willing became involved with a married man, and then to compare the AP's pain to that of the BS's spouses pain, is crazy. There is no comparison of the two. The AP may have a bruised ego, but they will NEVER feel the pain that the BS felt.


The OW knowingly entered in to a relationship with a married man, his wife be damned. As is often the case, she also worked to remove the wife from the situation. To compare this hijackers pain to that of the actual victim isn't even close to reality.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> :iagree: This couldn't be more true, I know several instances where the cheating spouse has never apologized even once.
> 
> GM


It's sad how you know of several cheating spouses. It's sad that cheating is so rampant these days. It's sad that cheating has become so common, that the one who gets looked down upon is the one who was hurt. As if it was their fault, as if only they had been better, the spouse would not have been unfaithful, as if the BS actually drove the DS to do it. It's sad that so many people are so willing to accept, tolerate and even befriend those involved in an affair. And it's sad that cheating has become so "acceptible" today that self responsibility has no meaning, and when there is no self responsibility, there is no guilt, and when there is no guilt, there is no apology.
Sad indeed.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The OW knowingly entered in to a relationship with a married man, his wife be damned. As is often the case, she also worked to remove the wife from the situation. To compare this hijackers pain to that of the actual victim isn't even close to reality.


:iagree: yup, yup

Hi Brighteyes!


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## EmeraldEyez (Jun 17, 2011)

Hell is:

Going into your family doctor, and saying "Can you , um please test me for all STD's?"....stressing for over 10 sickening days for the results to come back...finding out you are "positive" for something....and then being told to be sure and retest because the "lethal" stuff doesn't show up right away and then having your family doctor hold your head while you throw up in their sink.

Hell is:

Waiting up every night for your computer to "ding" hoping to get a five minute video chat with your husband. Only to hear him tell you, hey, busy can't talk. You find out months later, he was too busy websexing or actually hooking up with women as old as his daughter and almost as old as his mom...so he was too busy to talk to you.

Hell is:

Asking if they were beautiful, funny, sexy...why he did it, and threw me and my sons away so easily, "Oh, because they were better than the alternative of using my hand"

Hell is:

Having the phone ring two months after he's home and some "GI Ho" tells me she's pregnant and that she needs my husband to take a DNA test.

Hell is:

Having the same GI HO...send me pictures six months later of her wedding at DISNEY F'N Land, seriously and telling me "Thanks for letting me borrow your husband"

Hell is:

Not only losing your brother it an IED explosion in Iraq, but realizing you lost all your dreams, ideals of love and marriage, and your husband over there as well.

Hell is:

Having your trusting, soft, caring heart....start to turn so hard, because you realize it's all just stupid dream, that doesn't, hasn't, and never will exist....

So, please...keep your "hell is loving two women and I can't have them both...crap"....until someone you have based your whole life with, betrays you and gives every intimate thing you've ever shared to someone else....you don't know hell.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

JohnMcCloud said:


> If you want to really understand what hell is, fall in love with another woman while married.
> 
> This is not some cliché BS, it’s true. I am the bad guy here, no excuses; I met a friend, whom I got close to, which became an affair, which became an attachment. I do not dislike my wife, but over the years the passion fades, the fog goes away and the person whom you married becomes human and has flaws.
> 
> ...





terrified said:


> Hell is waking up everyday knowing my husband, my partner, my best friend f*cked another woman on my living room floor. Then watching our 4 year old daughter play games on the same floor.
> 
> Hell is watching my entire reality, my future, my past, my hopes and my dreams disappear as I try everyday to breath.
> 
> ...


I believe that hell is literally the most intense physical and emotional separation between and individual and God. When there is an affair in a marriage I think people experience a very intense physical and emotional separation from their spouse, so it is logical to call it "hell."

I personally think that EVERYONE goes through "hell" at one point or another when one partner or the other chooses to have an affair. The pleasure that comes to those involved in the affair is temporary. The damage that is done to relationships and individuals during and after an affair is often insurmountable and unrepairable.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> Not apologizing,,, Ahhhhh..... yes.
> Could self absorbtion be so thick as to allow oneself to believe they are incapable of such a mistake, and further, if something like this has happened, it must have been because things were bad for years, therefore it is a result of the broken marriage that this affair has occurred?
> ---(wife said pretty much the same thing)
> Delusional.



Ye....they rationalize in their minds that the marriage was over long before the affair ever took place. Things like:

They never were there for me...
All the excitement was gone...
I couldn't make them happy...

and blah...blah..blah


If you ask them if they ever talked to their spouse about those concerns....you get the "they just wouldn't understand" or "no..it was to late"


It amazes me the depth of their own self deception...it's almost eclipses the lies they tell you.


GM


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Ye....they rationalize in their minds that the marriage was over long before the affair ever took place. Things like:
> 
> They never were there for me...
> All the excitement was gone...
> ...


Yes, I agree. It's the same old excuse for all cheaters. Maybe they did try to talk to their spouse, and maybe their spouse wouldnt listen but I'd be willing to bet that if they took steps to leave rather than just cheat, their spouse would snap to very quickly and start working on the marriage.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

EmeraldEyez said:


> So, please...keep your "hell is loving two women and I can't have them both...crap"....until someone you have based your whole life with, betrays you and gives every intimate thing you've ever shared to someone else....you don't know hell.


We really need to have a standing ovation icon. Your post deserves it in spades.


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## wild_irish_rose (Aug 6, 2011)

You want to know what hell is ... hell is finding out after 10 years of marriage that your husband never loved you to begin with and that he only married you because the ex-GF he DID really love had married another man and that as soon as she was divorced he was off into her arms again. Hell is being told that he doesn't even feel like he's cheating on you because he "belonged" with her all along. So much for wedding vows. He admits he didn't mean them even as he was saying them.

The BIGGEST mistake you can make in marriage - is KNOWINGLY marrying the wrong person, for all the wrong reasons. Which is what my H did to me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> It's sad how you know of several cheating spouses. It's sad that cheating is so rampant these days. It's sad that cheating has become so common.


Cheating has been rampant since the beginning of time. It's been around since day 1. It's not a new thing and sadly, will always be around. 



AppleDucklings said:


> It's sad that cheating has become so common, that the one who gets looked down upon is the one who was hurt.


The one who should be looked down on is the one who cheated. The betrayed did nothing wrong. They are not responsible for the action/decision the spouse who cheated on them made. Ever. So Apple, you need to start telling yoursel "HE didn't deserve ME."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I wonder if the OP actually ended the affair. Just a few days ago he was saying he "didn't know what to do" and couldn't leave her (the affair partner). And now he's gone quiet...


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I wonder if the OP actually ended the affair. Just a few days ago he was saying he "didn't know what to do" and couldn't leave her (the affair partner). And now he's gone quiet...


Just a few days ago the OP was saying OW was everything the wife is not. Yup, deceitful, immoral and a liar.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

thought about responding when I read this 3-4 pages ago... 

then thought "why bother?".


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

:rofl:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

morituri said:


> I said 'Nice job' because I agreed with your assessment of John's statements because it was right on the money.
> 
> And as far as a script is concerned, you already have it - you just need to change the names and genders.
> 
> Don't be mad, I'm just messin' with ya girl.


Oppps sorry Mori but, I'm still mad at you because you made me look a fool by showing me up as too dense to get the joke and posting something dripping with sacasm. I am going to hide for 5 min. :>{
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

These post make me cry. I can understand a marriage not working out, I can understand falling in love with someone other than you spouse. Some people fall into an affair because they are lonely and unhappy in their marriage and they take the selfish cowards way out by cheating instead of making a clean break by divorce. 

That is painful enough; it is reprehensible but not evil. What I don't understand is the cruelty heaped upon the LS. Why would anyone tell a spouse that were just a placecard? Why not keep mum to spare the persons feelings? Why have the new squeeze phone the LS and stick it her face, why say I never loved you? Why not just say I fell out of love or take the spoils and slink away without future humiliating the one left behind. 

I think more than the cheating is the cruelty. Is it not enough to enjoy the freedom from the one left behind and the enjoyment of the new penny? Why would a woman who took another woman's husband from his family call the wife and rub it in herface. 

I think OM would not bother doing this. I believe men who take another man's wife are not honorable but they are highly unlikely to call the husband and rub his face in it. The man code is stillmpartically intact. 

On the other hand woman can be horrible creatures. We know what it is like to have kids and want to bring them up in an intact home but women gladly engage in mate poaching and waving thier victory at the LS while she is in pain. 

In a way I think women are more at fault than men. Men can sometimes be manipulated by a determined attractive woman who tells him what he wants to hear. It is not that men are not complicite but they are vulnerable to the lures of a woman on the make. 

These woman know that and use it. if there were more woman with a code of honor, empathy and compassion men would find far less temptation. As it is, I trust men more than woman because so many women are not trustworthy or honorable when it comes to men. Men are accused of thinking with their little brain. By the way some women behave, they don't seem to have a 2nd brain to think with or a functioning primary brain. All the sisterhood solidarity stuff is hollow and a lot of BS. There I said it. 

My mothers best friend cheated with my dad. Some best friend .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> That is painful enough; it is reprehensible but not evil. What I don't understand is the cruelty heaped upon the LS. Why would anyone tell a spouse that were just a placecard? Why not keep mum to spare the persons feelings? Why have the new squeeze phone the LS and stick it her face, why say I never loved you? Why not just say I fell out of love or take the spoils and slink away without future humiliating the one left behind.
> 
> I think more than the cheating is the cruelty. Is it not enough to enjoy the freedom from the one left behind and the enjoyment of the new penny? Why would a woman who took another woman's husband from his family call the wife and rub it in herface.


Oh gosh this is so true. the OW in Apple's case denied the affair to her and then later showed up IN HER DRIVEWAY at her marital home to wait there for Apple's husband to come out and drive off with them. Then when Apple gave him the boot and called OW out on her BS--she had the audacity to ask Apple what size his ring finger was...and calimed it wasn't her fault the marriage fell apart, that she basically played no part in the infidelity. She denies it to this day and has continued to seek contact with Apple despite the many times she's told her to F off. (That's why Apple and I have planned a 'Hammer the Cuckoo Clock' ceremony for later, but I digress...

I can't remember if it was Mori or Mayhem who said they think OW are waaay worse than OM. That their ultimate goal is to land the husband and end up with him (most of them anyway). It got me thinking when that was posted--gosh that I so spot on. 

Look at LeAnn Rimes. Perfect example.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I think it might have been me JB.

If I remember correctly, you asked me why I thought that OW was worse than OM and I answered you that it was because most OM just want to use the married woman for sex while most OW want to replace the betrayed wife in the unfaithful husband's life. 

Seldom do women, unfaithful wives or OW, enter into an affair solely because the sex is bad in their marriage but are still in love with their husbands.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

JB when a man cleats it seems enough for him to land the wife but when women steal another women husband, they have a tendency to be hostile towards the wife. I have read several post from 2nd wives who resent their husbands paying child support!! Where does that come from? I can only think of one explanation woman hate themselves. 

We are our own worst enemy, 50 % of women's problems would be wiped away if we had a female code.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

How is it way worse to want to "land" the husband? OM are doing just as much damage whether they actually want to steal the wife or are just having fun. 

My WW had self esteem issues (not caused by me) and the OM preyed on that. 

He admitted to me he initiated the A and pursued it because it was fun and he is also married with a child. No matter if he rubs it in my face or apologizes, I hate him either way.

Cheaters are selfish and hurtful no matter their gender, and in Apples case sick and twisted.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> I think it might have been me JB.
> 
> If I remember correctly, you asked me why I thought that OW was worse than OM and I answered you that it was because most OM just want to use the married woman for sex while most OW want to replace the betrayed wife in the unfaithful husband's life.


Yep! You know what thread I'm talking about!



Catherine602 said:


> JB when a man cleats it seems enough for him to land the wife but when women steal another women husband, they have a tendency to be hostile towards the wife. *I have read several post from 2nd wives who resent their husbands paying child support*!! Where does that come from?


I've seen this a lot to. I was reading a story about the 2nd wife who despised the 1st wife an couldn't understand why the husband ever spoke a good word about her, why he had any contact with her (Yes this same husband left the 1st wife for the second) and she was having a meltdown because she wanted to live their life sans the children from the first marriage. She was seeking advice on how to deal with the kid issue beacuse she didn't feel like being a "mom" and wasn't comfortable with that role. And you know the whle "His ex wife is a psycho/b-tch/he likes me better" yet she for some reason totally hated her. :rofl:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Catherine, I don't believe that OM, in general, follow any code at all. They are for the most part selfish cowards who are afraid of having an honest relationship with a single woman so instead they prey on the vulnerabilities of married women who may be experiencing a low period in their marriages. Most of them are afraid of being physically confronted by the betrayed husband.

If the OM truly followed a 'bro code', female infidelity would be practically non-existent. They are parasites.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Oh gosh this is so true. the OW in Apple's case denied the affair to her and then later showed up IN HER DRIVEWAY at her marital home to wait there for Apple's husband to come out and drive off with them. Then when Apple gave him the boot and called OW out on her BS--she had the audacity to ask Apple what size his ring finger was...and calimed it wasn't her fault the marriage fell apart, that she basically played no part in the infidelity. She denies it to this day and has continued to seek contact with Apple despite the many times she's told her to F off. (That's why Apple and I have planned a 'Hammer the Cuckoo Clock' ceremony for later, but I digress...
> 
> I can't remember if it was Mori or Mayhem who said they think OW are waaay worse than OM. That their ultimate goal is to land the husband and end up with him (most of them anyway). It got me thinking when that was posted--gosh that I so spot on.
> 
> Look at LeAnn Rimes. Perfect example.


OW will not stop until there is the total and utter destruction of the BW. They spend their time licking the outside windows of the marital home and plot and scheme for ways to get in. They will not be happy until the wife is gone and the OW is queen of the castle. 
Yes, LeAnn Rimes is a perfect example. Tweeting that she is so happy to be "New Mom" to Brandi's children has got to be one of the cruelest things you can do to a BW. 
OM on the other hand are usually out for sex, not to extricate the wife from her husband. 
Neither is better. Both are participating in destroying a marriage.


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

morituri said:


> I think it might have been me JB.
> 
> If I remember correctly, you asked me why I thought that OW was worse than OM and I answered you that it was because most OM just want to use the married woman for sex while most OW want to replace the betrayed wife in the unfaithful husband's life.
> 
> Seldom do women, unfaithful wives or OW, enter into an affair solely because the sex is bad in their marriage but are still in love with their husbands.


WOW:scratchhead:


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> John, first let me say that I sit - more or less - on the same bench as you do. So in what I'm about to say every time I say "you", I also mean "I." I get where you're coming from. The thing is - no one cares about you're pain, except maybe your wife if you're really lucky. Whatever pain you have - you earned, it is the price of your actions. Call it stupid tax, penance, whatever you want but it is yours and you earned every bit of it. You're right that everyone loses in an affair, that's because they are among the most selfish and stupid things a married person can do. You were wrong when you said everyone dies "a little bit" inside. Everyone dies a lot inside. The scars are deep and permanent in many ways, for everyone your affair touches. I told my affair partner while still in my affair that what I was afraid of most is that both she and my wife would end up hurt, I wasn't really worried about myself. I vividly remember after I realized I wanted out of my A searching for that magic rabbit hole that would take me out of wonderland and put me on the outside of my affair with no pain, no mess, no casualties, and no one hurt. I never could find that rabbit hole and finally just had to walkout of my affair through the front door and take all the pain and consequences that came with it. I hate that I hurt my wife and I actually do hate that my AP got hurt. I didn't deceive my AP about my marriage or that I would ever leave my wife, but I still own a part of her pain. I have truck loads of sympathy for my wife, her pain I gave her, she did nothing to deserve it. I have no sympathy for myself or my AP, we earned our pain - as did you - and now we have to live with it. Such is the price of cheating.


I would advise that you save your sympathy for you wife alone. If your AP knew about your wife, as you say she did, then she deserves whatever pain she has, and more. She knew she was taking what did not belong to her. She knew her actions were, and would be hurtful to your wife and family. She is a dishonest and deceitful person who doesn't deserve sympathy from anyone, much less her co-conspirator. I hope that you have not made the mistake of saying that you have sympathy for this woman to your wife. She may be a stronger person than I am, and could put up with that without pyrotechnics, but I think most betrayed wives would have serious problems with this. I would see it as more betrayal, and continuing disloyalty.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> I would advise that you save your sympathy for you wife alone. If your AP knew about your wife, as you say she did, then she deserves whatever pain she has, and more. She knew she was taking what did not belong to her. She knew her actions were, and would be hurtful to your wife and family. She is a dishonest and deceitful person who doesn't deserve sympathy from anyone, much less her co-conspirator. I hope that you have not made the mistake of saying that you have sympathy for this woman to your wife. She may be a stronger person than I am, and could put up with that without pyrotechnics, but I think most betrayed wives would have serious problems with this. I would see it as more betrayal, and continuing disloyalty.





sigma1299 said:


> I have truck loads of sympathy for my wife, her pain I gave her, she did nothing to deserve it. *I have no sympathy for myself or my AP, we earned our pain* - as did you - and now we have to live with it. Such is the price of cheating.


I said I have no sympathy for me or my AP...


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> These post make me cry. I can understand a marriage not working out, I can understand falling in love with someone other than you spouse. Some people fall into an affair because they are lonely and unhappy in their marriage and they take the selfish cowards way out by cheating instead of making a clean break by divorce.
> 
> That is painful enough; it is reprehensible but not evil. What I don't understand is the cruelty heaped upon the LS. Why would anyone tell a spouse that were just a placecard? Why not keep mum to spare the persons feelings? Why have the new squeeze phone the LS and stick it her face, why say I never loved you? Why not just say I fell out of love or take the spoils and slink away without future humiliating the one left behind.
> 
> ...


I worked in a female dominated career for years. I learned that women don't want to just defeat a rival ( even when she doesn't know she is a rival); they want to rip off her head and urinate on her corpse. I do agree with this post that women are under no illusions ( with the exception of the extremely stupid perhaps?) when they go after another woman's H. They know full well what they are doing to the other woman and her family, and they are getting a charge out of it. Is this worse than just going after a booty call? Yeah, I think so! My H's skank kept showing up to try to rub my nose in it, for a year and a half!. The last time she popped up ( uninvited) was at a wedding, just this last May. She knows what she is doing, and It feels good to turn the tables on her from time to time. I have come to enjoy smacking her on her cold, wet nose with a newspaper when she intrudes into my life.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

oaksthorne said:


> I worked in a female dominated career for years. I learned that women don't want to just defeat a rival ( even when she doesn't know she is a rival); they want to rip off her head and urinate on her corpse. I do agree with this post that women are under no illusions ( with the exception of the extremely stupid perhaps?) when they go after another woman's H. They know full well what they are doing to the other woman and her family, and they are getting a charge out of it. Is this worse than just going after a booty call? Yeah, I think so! My H's skank kept showing up to try to rub my nose in it, for a year and a half!. The last time she popped up ( uninvited) was at a wedding, just this last May. She knows what she is doing, and It feels good to turn the tables on her from time to time. I have come to enjoy smacking her on her cold, wet nose with a newspaper when she intrudes into my life.


You are correct in that it is a challenge and a "win" mentality. That and a sociopathic one.
Read a website a while back filled with OW and they were all congratulating each other when the husband left the wife. Not one of them had any empathy for the BW and her pain or that of her children. Not one.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I have to say I had no idea women were so ruthless. I must live a sheltered life??


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Hell is other people - Sartre


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I said I have no sympathy for me or my AP...


" I hate that I hurt my wife and I actually do hate that my AP got hurt. I didn't deceive my AP about my marriage or that I would ever leave my wife, but I still own a part of her pain. "

If your AP knew that you were married, and she still chose to inter into an A with you, she is responsible for her own pain. She knew what she was doing to your wife; believe me, she knew, and she is not deserving of any "I actually do hate that my AP got hurt". It is important that you realize this. I am speaking to you as a BW. Any feelings of regret that you express for this woman's pain, will likely be viewed by your wife as continuing disloyalty.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I have to say I had no idea women were so ruthless. I must live a sheltered life??


Maybe you just see the good in people. I do. I also think people mostly suck.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

sigma1299 said:


> I have to say I had no idea women were so ruthless. I must live a sheltered life??


Ever see a man walk in to a room? He looks around to scope out the attractive women. Ever see a woman walk in to a room? She looks around to scope out her competition. 
OW take this to epic levels.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You are correct in that it is a challenge and a "win" mentality. That and a sociopathic one.
> Read a website a while back filled with OW and they were all congratulating each other when the husband left the wife. Not one of them had any empathy for the BW and her pain or that of her children. Not one.


Men generally have a hard time believing this, and it makes them more vulnerable to this kind of woman. They go through their entire lives never seeing this side of women, so naturally that little Cutie who is coming on to them must have no ulterior motive beyond her admiration for him. If a woman knows a man is married and chases him anyway, it's a fair bet that she is competing with his wife.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> " I hate that I hurt my wife and I actually do hate that my AP got hurt. I didn't deceive my AP about my marriage or that I would ever leave my wife, but I still own a part of her pain. "
> 
> If your AP knew that you were married, and she still chose to inter into an A with you, she is responsible for her own pain. She knew what she was doing to your wife; believe me, she knew, and she is not deserving of any "I actually do hate that my AP got hurt". It is important that you realize this. I am speaking to you as a BW. Any feelings of regret that you express for this woman's pain, will likely be viewed by your wife as continuing disloyalty.


Point taken. Let me rephrase this way. I hate that I hurt my AP. I always struggle with hurting anyone - deserving of it or not - it's just me. I know my AP is a big girl and made her own decisions. Where my guilt comes from regarding her is that had I been a better man and refused to participate in the affair she would not have gotten hurt - right? So I own part of her pain and I hate that. Not for her but for me. She owns part of mine as well by that equation and I don't believe for a second she carries any guilt toward me or my wife, but that's her moral dilemma and not my problem.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ever see a man walk in to a room? He looks around to scope out the attractive women. Ever see a woman walk in to a room? She looks around to scope out her competition.
> OW take this to epic levels.





oaksthorne said:


> Men generally have a hard time believing this, and it makes them more vulnerable to this kind of woman. They go through their entire lives never seeing this side of women, so naturally that little Cutie who is coming on to them must have no ulterior motive beyond her admiration for him. If a woman knows a man is married and chases him anyway, it's a fair bet that she is competing with his wife.


My God I'm naive when it comes to women - I didn't even know.:scratchhead:

My post before this one to oaksthorne is a perfect example... Geez.


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## wild_irish_rose (Aug 6, 2011)

_I've seen this a lot to. I was reading a story about the 2nd wife who despised the 1st wife an couldn't understand why the husband ever spoke a good word about her, why he had any contact with her_

My H's GF hates me so much she's told me to my face that she wishes I were dead. In her words "I want to f__k YOUR husband on YOUR grave and then take YOUR child home and raise him to forget you ever existed." I told him about it and he just laughed and told me not to take her seriously that's just "the way she is." If that's the way she is why does he even want to have anything to do with her? Worst of all for me is that I thought this woman was my friend. She was even in our wedding party but as it turns out she actually slept with him the night before our wedding - and she was already married at the time!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

wild_irish_rose said:


> _I've seen this a lot to. I was reading a story about the 2nd wife who despised the 1st wife an couldn't understand why the husband ever spoke a good word about her, why he had any contact with her_
> 
> My H's GF hates me so much she's told me to my face that she wishes I were dead. In her words "I want to f__k YOUR husband on YOUR grave and then take YOUR child home and raise him to forget you ever existed." I told him about it and he just laughed and told me not to take her seriously that's just "the way she is." If that's the way she is why does he even want to have anything to do with her? Worst of all for me is that I thought this woman was my friend. She was even in our wedding party but as it turns out she actually slept with him the night before our wedding - and she was already married at the time!


Any chance murder is legal where you live?


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## wild_irish_rose (Aug 6, 2011)

_Any chance murder is legal where you live?_

Nah, I don't want her (or him) dead. I've about come to the conclusion lately though that they deserve each other. And now she's the one who has to deal with my batsh*t crazy MIL better her than me.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> My God I'm naive when it comes to women - I didn't even know.:scratchhead:
> 
> My post before this one to oaksthorne is a perfect example... Geez.


If my H had known this about women who cheat with MM, I don't think he would have gotten sucked in. He wares a huge wedding ring, and, on reflection, it seemed to make him more attractive to her. They call it betrayal, because that's what it is. It is consorting with the enemy; in every sense of the word. Is there anyone who feels sorry for Benedict Arnold's pain?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

wild_irish_rose said:


> _I've seen this a lot to. I was reading a story about the 2nd wife who despised the 1st wife an couldn't understand why the husband ever spoke a good word about her, why he had any contact with her_
> 
> My H's GF hates me so much she's told me to my face that she wishes I were dead. In her words "I want to f__k YOUR husband on YOUR grave and then take YOUR child home and raise him to forget you ever existed." I told him about it and he just laughed and told me not to take her seriously that's just "the way she is." If that's the way she is why does he even want to have anything to do with her? Worst of all for me is that I thought this woman was my friend. She was even in our wedding party but as it turns out she actually slept with him the night before our wedding - and she was already married at the time!


My husband also slept with another woman the night before our wedding. Then continued to repeatedly cheat for the next 15 years.


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## JohnMcCloud (Aug 15, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> My husband also slept with another woman the night before our wedding. Then continued to repeatedly cheat for the next 15 years.


Well, at least he was consistent.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JohnMcCloud said:


> Well, at least he was consistent.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you start a post about your cheating, leave and then when you return you make some snarky and totally insensitive comment towards a hurting woman who was cheated on her entire marriage and had her heart ripped out?
Really wish this website didn't have rules.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

John that remark you made to AD was extremely cruel, insensitive, and if you have any bit of humanity left inside of you, you will apologize to her now.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

JohnMcCloud said:


> Well, at least he was consistent.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


wow....thanks for the trigger and making me cry.

You obviously have* NO fvcking clue* what it's like to be on the receiving end of this type of betrayal.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> wow....thanks for the trigger and making me cry.
> 
> You obviously have* NO fvcking clue* what it's like to be on the receiving end of this type of betrayal.


I am so sorry AD that he hurt you the way he did. I truly feel sorry for his wife for having the misfortune of marrying such a cruel and heartless being.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> I am so sorry AD that he hurt you the way he did. I truly feel sorry for his wife for having the misfortune of marrying such a cruel and heartless being.


Thanks, Mori.

I feel sorry for his wife too, as I can say I know exactly how she feels. I was married to the same cruel bastard with no regard for anyone but themselves.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Shooboomafoo said:


> Not apologizing,,, Ahhhhh..... yes.
> Could self absorbtion be so thick as to allow oneself to believe they are incapable of such a mistake, and further, if something like this has happened, it must have been because things were bad for years, therefore it is a result of the broken marriage that this affair has occurred?
> ---(wife said pretty much the same thing)
> Delusional.


My ex husband has been telling people that our marriage has been in trouble for years(news to me) but of course he has not even mentioned his affair anywhere along the line. As for apology, I am still waiting for one. Did not even get a fake one!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

morituri said:


> John that remark you made to AD was extremely cruel, insensitive, and if you have any bit of humanity left inside of you, you will apologize to her now.


I think you are giving him too much credit. I had to retype my response to his disgusting comment about 8 times because what I wanted to post would have gotten me perma banned. OP also needs a geography lesson.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

notreadytoquit said:


> My ex husband has been telling people that our marriage has been in trouble for years(news to me) but of course he has not even mentioned his affair anywhere along the line. As for apology, I am still waiting for one. Did not even get a fake one!


My ex did say "I'm sorry" to me. But, it was not genuine. It was not real. It was as if he was reading from a script. I don't think I will ever hear a true apology from him.

I think that's another line they all use to justify their A's. Mine said that too.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think you are giving him too much credit. I had to retype my response to his disgusting comment about 8 times because what I wanted to post would have gotten me perma banned. OP also needs a geography lesson.


me too, Brighteyes. I really wanted to say something much more "enlightening"


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

:banhim:


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Simple rule - don't cheat. Talk to your spouse. End the marriage. Have the [email protected] to face your problems instead of hiding in the shadows.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

JohnMcCloud said:


> Btw, this response was directed to Catherine, hope that whole thing works out for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Having an affair is a cowards way to end a relationship. With your hit and run comments this sort of proves the point.

If your going to post here you have to, you know, argue your point. If you have one. 
What you said to Apple was extraordinarily insensitive. Remember there are real people reading these posts!


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## wishingformore (Aug 18, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> John, first let me say that I sit - more or less - on the same bench as you do. So in what I'm about to say every time I say "you", I also mean "I." I get where you're coming from. The thing is - no one cares about you're pain, except maybe your wife if you're really lucky. Whatever pain you have - you earned, it is the price of your actions. Call it stupid tax, penance, whatever you want but it is yours and you earned every bit of it. You're right that everyone loses in an affair, that's because they are among the most selfish and stupid things a married person can do. You were wrong when you said everyone dies "a little bit" inside. Everyone dies a lot inside. The scars are deep and permanent in many ways, for everyone your affair touches. I told my affair partner while still in my affair that what I was afraid of most is that both she and my wife would end up hurt, I wasn't really worried about myself. I vividly remember after I realized I wanted out of my A searching for that magic rabbit hole that would take me out of wonderland and put me on the outside of my affair with no pain, no mess, no casualties, and no one hurt. I never could find that rabbit hole and finally just had to walkout of my affair through the front door and take all the pain and consequences that came with it. I hate that I hurt my wife and I actually do hate that my AP got hurt. I didn't deceive my AP about my marriage or that I would ever leave my wife, but I still own a part of her pain. I have truck loads of sympathy for my wife, her pain I gave her, she did nothing to deserve it. I have no sympathy for myself or my AP, we earned our pain - as did you - and now we have to live with it. Such is the price of cheating.


I believe that it is impossible to judge an individuals situation...a cheater cheats, but a lover also loves. People make mistakes sometimes big ones. People get hurt sometimes badly. Catherine obviously you have been hurt, but your anger about how you were hurt makes you unable to see the bigger picture. I admire you men for admitting your flaws...its not easy to admit a wrong. It takes great courage to stand up and admit failure. Unfortunately broken hearts are the hardest wounds to heal. I do not believe once a cheater always a cheater....not for everyone. It is unfair to put everyone in the same box. Kudos to you men who admit your faults and don't blame the mistakes you made on your other half.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

JohnMcCloud said:


> What, are you 12 years old. Gzz, what a bunch of self righteous crap. Stop reading romance novels, pull your head out of your arse and wake up. If your divorced, it would be no surprise. If not, come crying when your significant other tells you to get lost.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hit a nerve huh, cloud dweller, dream maker, lover extraordinaire. 

I know you - you are the sort of man who is only alive in the dreams he weaves. They love to dance among the stars. I agree with you - you're too special to be held in the dullness of a committment you made in another dream or kids who were born in that dream that has lost it's shine of newness. 

You are too special to be expected to hang around in the hell your dream has become. Your wife and kids don't understand you, these earth bound dullards never do. You need to dance among the stars with your new love. 

That new love must be in a deep fog, she does not realize the things she wants will kill your dream of endless romance, children, house, marriage, commitment a man who will work to support her. You know though don't you If she is lucky she will see what you are before she get to far in. If not, she will be stuck with you till you float off to another dream when she becomes earthbound. Or she may begin to see you as a girly- man and trade you in for a real man. 

Gezzzz I thought only girls believed in Disney romance movies. Nice to know that there are silly men too. What's your favorite - the Princess Diaries? 

BTW cloudy john - I am married to a successful dominant man. He has dreams but they are substantial and he is hitting his goals nicely. He may tell me to get lost at any time since he has free will and he is not my slave. Apparently there is a 50% chance that he will do just that but then there is a 50% chance that I will tell him to get lost. 

I will always respect him though and he will may leave me but never his kids. Do you have the respect or admiration of a woman who knows you? You should try getting that, may help you to grow into a man. 

You don't like morality? Wait until some amoral person kicks your azzzz you'll scream in moral outrage like a you swallowed wire hangers. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

wild_irish_rose said:


> "I want to f__k YOUR husband on YOUR grave and then take YOUR child home and raise him to forget you ever existed."


This should tell you something about your husband. Why do you want someone who wants THIS?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's amazing when someone only has 8 posts and they post on an open forum to discuss things and they get responses and they come back with some sh-t like this, trying to be funny, but falling flat:



JohnMcCloud said:


> Well, at least he was consistent.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And they post nothing about their initial subject but do have a lot of ridiculous comments to people who are trying to help them: 



JohnMcCloud said:


> What, are you 12 years old. Gzz, what a bunch of self righteous crap. Stop reading romance novels, pull your head out of your arse and wake up. If your divorced, it would be no surprise. If not, come crying when your significant other tells you to get lost.


Why so bitter? 

And I don't see his post to Catherine now--did he go back and delete it? 



wild_irish_rose said:


> My H's GF hates me so much she's told me to my face that she wishes I were dead. In her words "I want to f__k YOUR husband on YOUR grave and then take YOUR child home and raise him to forget you ever existed." I told him about it and he just laughed and told me not to take her seriously that's just "the way she is."


You do realize they deserve eachother, right? I can't imagine any woman saying that to another. And hub is an idiot with his response. They sound klassy! Girl, you deserve SO much better.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Hit a nerve huh, cloud dweller, dream maker, lover extraordinaire.
> 
> Or she may begin to see you as a girly- man and trade you in for a real man.


:rofl:


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I had hoped at some time before my own marriage was over, and when she said that she thought divorce was the thing to do, after cheating on me, that someone, SOMEONE would have given her some comment that would have made her think rationally.
To be involved with another man, someone from 20 years ago that she doesnt even really know; so easily outshining what I was in terms of husband, lover, friend. 
All the romance books, and movies, and things she clung to that regularly made "real life" marriage seem like a long line at the DMV.
I wish someone would have told her something. I asked. I sure as hell asked everyone I knew. 
My stbxw didnt listen to me, didnt respect my words, always held me in the position of trying to take something from her and how it got to that point I will never know. I guess she was rebelling against the position she put me in as daddy, because we were headed for bankruptcy, headed for divorce, or at least years of therapy. I cant say that my marriage was good. It had good times, but I cant say it was a good marriage. But to cheat, get discovered, and then ask for a divorce,,, didnt seem to give my any option at all.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:


I'm picturing Fabio in the I Can't Believe it's Not Butter commerical only it's the one where he fast forwards in age while steering a gondola and he looks like a 17 day old apple core that has been sitting by the side of the road. "Life comes at you fast" indeed. 
Hopefully that means the karma bus at 80 mph.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> All the romance books, and movies, and things she clung to that regularly made "real life" marriage seem like a long line at the DMV.


Unintentionally funny. The DMV always has the longest lines ever. 



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Hopefully that means the karma bus at 80 mph.


Oh, Karma seems to always make an appearance without warning and when you least expect her. 

She's a real b-tch!


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I retract what I had previously said about sitting on the same bench as John - not even close to where I sit now.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sigma got his own bench and moved it clear across the gymnasium to sit alone. 

LOL.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Unintentionally funny. The DMV always has the longest lines ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Especially when she stops, backs out, and goes forward again. Beep beep.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

:rofl:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Thread closed. OP deleted initial post.


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