# Love Language vs. Beta Weakness



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok, so I'm a firm believer in both the MMSL teachings of alpha/beta balance as well as The 5 Love Languages. The issue in my mind however is, when one's love tank is feeling a little empty, is addressing it with your spouse a direct conflict of interest against the MMSL teachings that discussing feelings can come off as too beta and weak?

Would love to her a lot of different opinions on this one.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I am a big advocate of communication, so I would address this issue. How will she be aware of your unhappiness if you don't let her know what is going on? That said, you must do it in a way that does not come off as whiny or complaining.

Use I statements, such as "When this happens I feel. . ." What you don't want to do is make her feel defensive and have her shut down. 

If you don't address this, resentment will build, and resentment kills love.

Can you give us some examples of what you want her to understand about you?


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> I am a big advocate of communication, so I would address this issue. How will she be aware of your unhappiness if you don't let her know what is going on? That said, you must do it in a way that does not come off as whiny or complaining.
> 
> Use I statements, such as "When this happens I feel. . ." What you don't want to do is make her feel defensive and have her shut down.
> 
> ...


I agree completely, I don't find discussing unhappiness in the relationship is in anyway beta.

Beta is not standing up for oneself, having no self esteem, meeting her needs by sacrificing yours, etc...

But the OP's post is vague, "Love Tank" is very broad, what is missing? Physical intimacy? Emotional intimacy? Not enough time together?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'd like to know if I'm ffing up. The thought of my spouse being unhappy about something I'm doing or not doing doesn't sit well with me. And since I can't read minds (damn magic 8 ball!!) it would be okay if he told me.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, my primary love language is physical touch and so is hers, but mine is more extremely primary (11 score vs. 8 hers). Mine is so extreme that I'm starting to notice a true dependency on it. For example, an entire week has gone by without any real close intimacy between us and I'm starting to fall back into that dark place of loneliness again.

Over the past few months I've been slowly bringing her into my world of new-found relationship knowledge little by little (not trying to overload her with it), and all-in-all we've made some decent progress about meeting needs. I'm definitely on top of things like I've never been before, making sure I'm meeting all her needs... And I do feel she now has more of an awareness about my needs than she did before, but I feel like she's still not up there at my level on all of this... I feel like she still doesn't quite "get it" like I do.

We've had some discussions already, and I was pretty cautious in making sure I didn't come off as whiny about it or complaining... I think I have a pretty good "alpha style" to my discussions to a certain degree. And I'm also cautious enough to make sure I'm not over-discussing something like beating a dead horse too because that's sure to drive a wedge. I make a point, she opens her eyes a little and tells me she'll "try harder", and for the most part she does make improvement. But going a whole week without her initiating some affection toward me still hurts pretty fvcking bad, and my pain is legitimate. So wtf am I supposed to do, not address it in fear of coming across as "too beta" but then simultaneously be accused of bottling up and not communicating what's bothering me?

Something else that kinda hurts me is that back in January I asked her if she would read a book about relationships and she said "Yes, if it's important to you I will." So I gave her the 5 Love Languages book and she started reading it, but she got through 4 chapters and didn't make much more progress since. There's been a lot of other things going on to distract her which is why she hasn't, so I'm trying not to hold it against her. But we recently went away to the Bahamas for 5 days and to my surprise she brought the book with her... so I was hopeful she would continue. But a co-worker also lent her a kindle and she ended up plowing through some other novel instead the entire trip. Didn't touch the Love Languages book at all. Then the other night in bed she attempted to read the Love Languages book again, but she really can't read in bed because it just makes her tired so she put it down after like 6 pages.

I just feel like I'm so aware of our relationship now that I'm so into us again and she's still on the outside, only half-trying. I don't think she's doing it to be hurtful, she's seriously a wonderful person.

I also think my dependency on my Love Language is also another problem, and I don't know how to change that. It's starting to make me angry at myself because it makes me feel needy. Kinda wish I was someone else sometimes.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> I also think my dependency on my Love Language is also another problem, and I don't know how to change that. It's starting to make me angry at myself because it makes me feel needy. Kinda wish I was someone else sometimes.


You cannot change your love language any more than you can change the color of your eyes. You are wanting her to initiate and touch you more. Have you tried leading her to this? Playful slaps on the butt, flirty texts, non-sexual affection, kisses on the back of her neck?

As far as her not reading relationship books, some people just do not understand why books can provide insight. I love books, but my husband wouldn't read one to save his life. Well, maybe if his life were really at stake, but he is not wired that way.

Can you bring up your insights in a neutral discussion? Maybe bring examples of people you know in a similar situation?

It doesn't sound like you two are too far apart. I think you can work on this with thoughtful actions.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

Doesn't sound like the relationship is in any real trouble, probably just somethings you would like to see more, and that's okay.

Don't wait for her to initiate something, flirt with her, be initiator.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Bottled Up said:


> I just feel like I'm so aware of our relationship now that I'm so into us again and she's still on the outside, only half-trying. I don't think she's doing it to be hurtful, she's seriously a wonderful person.


If she's so wonderful she wouldn't be TRYING to meet your needs she'd be DOING it. She chose to read a novel instead of a book that was important to you.

Oh and she's lying about her love language being physical touch. Don't worry my husband did too. His is gifts.  

His drive is low and I promise you his actions (when I began paying attention) let me know in no uncertain terms physical touch wasn't at the top of his list.

I will agree with you on this. She isn't doing it to be hurtful. She truly just doesn't realize how important this is to you. Which is why the 180 is so effective. Wakes them up.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> going a whole week without her initiating some affection toward me still hurts pretty fvcking bad, and my pain is legitimate. So wtf am I supposed to do, not address it in fear of coming across as "too beta" but then simultaneously be accused of bottling up and not communicating what's bothering me?


Can you say something like.... "I've missed you this week" and she take the message? My husband and I do this and we know what it means for each other. 

It's saying "I want you" or "I love you" without coming off as being needy and having a long discussion about it. It's being vulnerable without totally coming off as a whiner.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

And I would let her know that reading that book is very important to you. You're reaching out to her to help strengthen what you have together, and you want to know she's willing to try something new that could help.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> You are wanting her to initiate and touch you more. Have you tried leading her to this? Playful slaps on the butt, flirty texts, non-sexual affection, kisses on the back of her neck?


Yeah, I'm definitely leading her frequent enough... I've been doing ALL of that. In fact all the intimate exchanges this week I'm pretty sure have started with me. The warmest thing I got from her (that she initiated) was her coming up to me this morning while I was sitting at the computer and wrapping her arms around me and telling me she loved me. I'm pretty sure at this point she sensed something was wrong with me which is what made her do it. But that was seriously the only initiation I got from her this entire week. It felt good, but almost too-little- too-late-good.



lovesherman said:


> Can you bring up your insights in a neutral discussion? Maybe bring examples of people you know in a similar situation?


That's kinda been my approach the last few months already. I know she's hearing it, I just don't know how much she's really retaining all of it. And I don't want to keep repeating myself too in risk of getting into the "beating a dead horse" zone, which I feel can definitely lead to coming off as too beta/weak.



lovesherman said:


> It doesn't sound like you two are too far apart. I think you can work on this with thoughtful actions.


You're probably right, because I don't feel like we're that far apart either. But I've really been trying hard to be thoughtful lately in so much. I really spend a lot of time now thinking about "how I can make her feel loved today?"... Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one thinking that way.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Do you think she is acts of service or quality time? If so, do you do things around the house, or spend 10-15 hours per week in mutually pleasurable activities? If she is gifts, do you get her little things often?

The other possibility is that you are doing too much for her, and if that is the case, you need to do the emotional 180 to make her see that she is not meeting your needs.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Do you think she is acts of service or quality time? If so, do you do things around the house, or spend 10-15 hours per week in mutually pleasurable activities? If she is gifts, do you get her little things often?


She actually has 2 primary love languages - physical touch and acts of service. Yeah I'm doing my best to fulfill both of them. I was lacking in the acts of service before I came to TAM and had my revelation... but since I've been on top of my game in both.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Hmmm, I didn't ask my husband to read the 5LL's. I just printed off the quiz and asked him to take it for me. lol

He thought it was really cool. He's not a reader at all...I'm the book monster. I read his to him one night while we were relaxing.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Bottled Up said:


> I've really been trying hard to be thoughtful lately in so much. I really spend a lot of time now thinking about "how I can make her feel loved today?"... Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one thinking that way.


And this is a problem. 

Look I've been where you are and a 180 was what got me back on track. I turned my energy back to ME and less on him. It really does work if you do it right and for the right reasons.

Your wife is too comfy in your relationship and that's a problem.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Pulling back hurts. But sometimes its the only way our partner really SEES us.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Pulling back hurts. But sometimes its the only way our partner really SEES us.


Oh it SUCKS big time.

But if you don't do this (when it's necessary) you get taken for granted. 

Of course I wouldn't know anything about that. LOL


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> Ok, so I'm a firm believer in both the MMSL teachings of alpha/beta balance as well as The 5 Love Languages. The issue in my mind however is, when one's love tank is feeling a little empty, is addressing it with your spouse a direct conflict of interest against the MMSL teachings that discussing feelings can come off as too beta and weak?
> 
> Would love to her a lot of different opinions on this one.


I think you have the ability to address the issue in different ways. One way is through verbal communication - and you can do that in a more 'alpha' way by being calm and confident and in control of yourself.

Another way is through your actions - through what you do and how you approach her. Some of the initiating things that were suggested is one option, and another is what Mavash suggested - which is what is in MEM's awesome thermostat thread.

If you are consistently the overheated partner, and your partner pulls away from you when they start to feel a bit scorched, you pulling back and allowing breathing room and them the ability to come to you may be necessary.

I think it's great you are working on this. Don't give up just because your wife is at a different level of awareness than you are. Do you let her know that you do appreciate the efforts that she has made so far? Who knows -- maybe she's a little bit of a words of affirmation gal. 

Best wishes.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I recently pulled back from my husband, when I noticed he wasn't making an effort about certain things that we discussed. I started going out with girlfriends more; dinners and even an overnight at my best friend's place which is a two hour train ride away. 

My husband picked me up at the subway after class last night. He was nicely dressed and freshly shaven, like we were going out on a date. He took me out for dinner to celebrate a recent A which I earned. Later, my husband asked me not to go out this weekend because he felt like I was spending too much time without him. I have also received two affectionate emails. :smthumbup: All I did was immerse myself in independent pursuits and my husband became more romantic. 

Try pulling away, even though it feels strange.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

I don't know about love language scores, etc, but you said in your post that you start going into a dark place of loneliness after a week of little close intimacy? This almost sounds to me like there may be a greater psychological issue going on with you because I don't think your happiness should be so dependent on someone's actions/inactions after 7 days. I don't mean to come off rude in any way so please don't take it as such..but it just seems to me that no one should have to feel this way over such a relatively short period of time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bottled,
This is almost entirely a matter of delivery style. Consider:

1. Long involved discussion about how you feel neglected, ...
2. Short statement focused on outcome: In order for us to have a healthy, mutually rewarding marriage it is necessary that you do "x"

The more concise the better. And don't debate. If you get some explanation as to why your priorities are wrong, your expectations too high, etc. Just smile and say "I disagree" and then quickly end the conversation.

Almost every miserable person in a marriage uses the same phrasing: I could never leave because:
- kids
- love him / her too much
- money
- etc

If your marital position = I will never leave because, then you have zero chance of real change. Because your partner knows it, and because the unspoken part of this viewpoint is: I will never do anything that really upsets my partner because then they might leave me.

That posture often brings out the worst in your partner. It basically combines:
- clinginess and 
- a lack of boundaries






Bottled Up said:


> Ok, so I'm a firm believer in both the MMSL teachings of alpha/beta balance as well as The 5 Love Languages. The issue in my mind however is, when one's love tank is feeling a little empty, is addressing it with your spouse a direct conflict of interest against the MMSL teachings that discussing feelings can come off as too beta and weak?
> 
> Would love to her a lot of different opinions on this one.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Jeff74 said:


> I don't know about love language scores, etc, but you said in your post that you start going into a dark place of loneliness after a week of little close intimacy? This almost sounds to me like there may be a greater psychological issue going on with you because I don't think your happiness should be so dependent on someone's actions/inactions after 7 days. I don't mean to come off rude in any way so please don't take it as such..but it just seems to me that no one should have to feel this way over such a relatively short period of time.


This is a really good point. I had this problem too and I sought help for it. For me it was a deep seated neediness that I couldn't shake on my own. Without my husband's constant validation I felt lost.

I don't feel that way anymore. I love being intimate with him but my happiness doesn't depend on it.

OH and btw I came to THIS place AFTER I went the 180 route. See even when my husband did come around I found it still wasn't enough. That's when I started to think the problem was....dare I say it? Me.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Jeff74 said:


> I don't think your happiness should be so dependent on someone's actions/inactions after 7 days. I don't mean to come off rude in any way so please don't take it as such..but it just seems to me that no one should have to feel this way over such a relatively short period of time.


 A week is too long !! ...... I would never downplay the sheer importance TOUCH plays within a marriage. IT certainly has the power to uplift us or bring us down.... this is normal behavior, there is nothing wrong with Bottled up psychologically. 

I remember some of your posts Jeff74.... you are an admitted low drive husband in a sexless marraige and are fine with this scenerio. Most men would not be, they would be climbing the walls & for good understandable reason. I would venture to say the Lens you look through is very very different from Bottled ups....and frankly... my own. Neither would I count myself "needy" - just cause I have the self awareness to know what brings me fullfillment and happiness within a marraige. 

I was just reading in this book yesterday  The Alchemy of Love and Lust  .... the chapter on Touching / attachment.... the chemicals it releases in the brain... it had some quotes of how this one women felt after her husband left for a business trip....she felt like she was going to DIE ...the craving was like air, this is often hormonal -- of course - like so much of how we feel. The more we touch, the more we want to touch... it brings us happiness.... or so it should, this is the normal course. THat book is in my car, and husband drove it to work, or I might have given some of those quotes, you could have identified. 

I also have to wonder if your wife is truly a Physical Toucher , or if she skewed some of those answers.... the only thing that would make sense to me (that she still could be)..... and I know this can happen.... cause It happened to me .. and I am gravely physical touch... IS......

IS your wife getting her "love tank' filled by the give & take touch of the children... I did this, I would cuddle with them in bed, watch Tv with the baby on my stomach... kiss those little cheeks repeatedly like an Italian Grandma ...(this likely annoyed my husband to no end!) I even asked him one time if he was jealous...he lied and said he wasn't. I think he felt I was being sarcastic.. Oh I was such a fool back then...but my point is......My personal need was being fed by my babies & younger kids.... which was GREAT for them- vital for their thriving mentally and physically ... but no so great for my dear husband !!!!

So even a physical touching woman can get caught up in this - We DID touch every day though, I would lay on his lap while we watched movies at night -his fingers running through my hair. Never was there a day that went by that we didn't "touch" each other somehow. This I know. I wanted my back scratched every single night....and he happily did it . He didn't ask me to scratch anything...which still baffles me. 

Doesn't your wife want these things Bottled up ??? Do you watch movies together, cuddle up? Does she not like her back scratched, a massage, a foor massage with peppermint lotion... just doing these things can often lead to more. 

Here is an article similar to the stuff I was reading in that book ..



> Touch is so vital to humans, and most of us don't get nearly enough of it. Babies deprived of touch don't develop normally because certain connections in the brain actually disappear. Orphans who receive very, very little touch often die as a result, and those who survive can experience permanent physical and mental retardation. Kids who don't get enough touch grow up to become aggressive and antisocial adults. Older adults who don't get enough touch also suffer, becoming senile sooner, and dying earlier. We're all affected by touch, and it's not "all in the mind"; rather it's the result of complex hormonal responses which actually change our bodies and brains.
> 
> Touch causes our bodies to produce a hormone called oxytocin. Not only does touch stimulate production of oxytocin, but oxytocin promotes a desire to touch and be touched: it's a feedback loop that can have wonderful results. Oxytocin makes us feel good about the person who causes the oxytocin to be released, and it causes a bonding between the two persons. Nursing a baby produces oxytocin in both mother and child, and this is a major part of what initially bonds the mother and her baby. Even thinking of someone we love can stimulate this hormone; when women in good marriages were asked to think about their husbands, the level of oxytocin in their blood rose quickly.
> 
> ...


 Arousing her desire for TOUCH in the answer ..in some new creative ways... so long as you have the patience to be able to handle it --if she doesn't want to go further.. That, again, is asking alot from a high driving male!


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

I was not meaning to come off rude in my message or compare my situation to others. I do undersand that physical touch is important to many marriages. 

However, I would like to give 2 opinions:

1. I do not think that after years of marriage, what a spouse does or does not do over 1 week (7 days) should so drastically effect someone to the point where they start going into a dark place. I understand that you might miss your spouse but going into a "dark place" sounds much more serious to me. Years of marriage may effect some people to that degree but I feel that one week should not.

2. I think that anytime some person has so much control over another person's psychological well-being demonstrates a potential problem. If a person's actions/inactions can cause a person to be depressed and go into "dark places" then this is not a good situation. Marriage is great and having a person we love is great. But if your wife/husband has so much control over how you feel then I feel like you have lost control of your own liberty and pursuit of happiness.

I said this before in a different post on a different topic but it applies here to (and it is my lawyer side talking now!):

The Declaration of Indepence says that Each of us has the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and, NO ONE, not even a spouse, has the right to take that away from us. Period.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Jeff74 said:


> 1. I do not think that after years of marriage, what a spouse does or does not do over 1 week (7 days) should so drastically effect someone to the point where they start going into a dark place. I understand that you might miss your spouse but going into a "dark place" sounds much more serious to me. Years of marriage may effect some people to that degree but I feel that one week should not.


 I guess I am more familiar with his personal story... reading all of his threads... I truly understand where he is coming from ....this is common and an ongoing struggle..... He wants to be desired by his wife...as any man would. SHe is scantly putting forth the effort until she sees he is "down" about it, then she feels guilty ....and acts. Of course there are the good times she surprises him too.. . then it seems back to the desert . 

Those desert times would royally suck the life out of someone who is craving this 1 thing more than any other. For him to shut down these feelings, downplay them...this generally will just result in one thing..... RESENTMENT.... I should know about this, my husband took that route with me... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...l-etc-how-robs-us-intimacy-we-crave-most.html

I only see 3 answers ....since these feelings have to go somewhere... 

1. One either has to get Creative with the spouse if we really want what we want...while doing our best to not get offended those time she pushes away (too tired, too busy)... realizing we are the Creative force who are the 90% Initiators....still feeling loved. Having to push our insecurties aside if/when our spouse does not give as much back as we crave they would, realizing we are just a little overly passionate !! 

2. Learn to stuff our feelings -never react badly -sacrificing for our spouse cause we love them.... but I still feel Resentment with likely grow in this ...

3. DO the Thermostat dance with ALpha Diligence in getting her attention...start going out with the guys, pick up a hobby, throw your emotional eneries into something else http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html 

What other options is there...in this situation ? 



> The Declaration of Indepence says that Each of us has the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and, NO ONE, not even a spouse, has the right to take that away from us. Period.


 A spouse shouldn't be able to do this to affect our personal happiness per say... ... but when we can get all of our love languages met by anyone outside of the marriage...pretty much ...except Physical Touch....this is a real issue!! 

We can spend *quality time *with family, friends, we can get *verbal affirmation *at work, family, we can exchange *gifts* with friends, even *acts of service*, friends can be excellent with such things... but lets try to get some physical touching off of someone outside the marriage. OH NO !! That is not allowed... so therefore, those who are unfortunate enough to have this love language has quite the uphill battle in dealing with a spouse who doesn't think it is such a big deal. 


I do feel our spouses influence our happiness........ If they are broken, unaffectionate , mentally deranged, passive aggressive and all these sucky things... it does affect us, and if it didn't in some way.....we are likely a little numb, or just so independent , we don't need another in our lives anyway.... or we are getting our tanks filled elsewhere....our jobs, our kids, our hobbies. Even those has the potential to put our marriage on a downward spiral if /when one or the other gets too out of whack... priorities misplaced.....and the other starts feeling it.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I agree with SA. It would be so difficult to have to figure out how to deal with a spouse who does not want to connect physically with you very often. That is the one area that makes marriage different from all our other relationships. You want your spouse to get it without you having to play games.

I guess the best advice that I have seen is the emotional 180. It worked for Tall Average Guy, MEM, and Mavash. They have very good advice about how to use it.

Unfortunately desire for sex cannot be forced. Your spouse has to want to please you and meet your needs.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Jeff74 said:


> I do not think that after years of marriage, what a spouse does or does not do over 1 week (7 days) should so drastically effect someone to the point where they start going into a dark place. I understand that you might miss your spouse but going into a "dark place" sounds much more serious to me. Years of marriage may effect some people to that degree but I feel that one week should not.


I'm reading the book 7 habits of highly effective people and he talks about people who are 'spouse centered' to which I nodded remembering the way I used to be. My very happiness seemed to hinge on HIM.

The irony is once I let go of the notion that I needed him to be happy and got happy DESPITE him he actually became more attentive and physical.

This to me is what a 180 is all about. Going from spouse centered to something you can control to be happy - yourself. Anytime your happiness is tied up in what your spouse does or doesn't do you give away control and power. Your moods will now swing and sway depending on someone else. And who wants that???


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mavash. said:


> I'm reading the book 7 habits of highly effective people and he talks about people who are 'spouse centered' to which I nodded remembering the way I used to be. My very happiness seemed to hinge on HIM.


That is one FINE FINE book... has over 1,000 5 star reviews on amazon !  The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People 

*Habit #1*... *Be Proactive *- Principles of personal vision

*Habit #2*... *Begin with the end in mind *- Principles of personal leadership

*Habit #3*... *Put 1st things 1st *- Principles of Personal Management

*Habit #4*... *Think Win/Win *- Principles of interpersonal management

*Habit #5 *...*Seek 1st to understand, then to be understood* - Principles of empathetic communication

*Habit #6*... *Synergize* - Principles of creative Cooperation

*Habit #7*... *Sharpen the Saw *- Principles of balanced self renewal

I likely look at the whole "Spouse centered " thing differently than most...My husband has always been very Spouse centered...it was only when I became more Spouse centered... that we have climbed new heights. 

I guess I am not sure of the delicate line where it becomes *NEEDY* vs one is getting their marital "priorities" where they belong.....as it should be.... That might make a good thread. My husband never acted needy towards me .... he just took the quiet slow growing resentment route instead...then when I felt I needed him "overly" ...feeling somewhat needy myself......I don't think anything could have blessed the man more....he ate that right up...it made him feel more loved, appreciated, opened him up to more vulnerabilty with me. I tend to think it was getting my priorities right finally -after 19 yrs. 

So Bottled up, how do you feel about your marital situation? I know you are very insightful in evaluating such things.... are you being TOO NEEDY ....or do you feel your wife is lacking making you a Priority in your marraige...or a little of both? Very likely I would think. 

If Indeed you feel YOU are the one with the issue...... then this should save you from putting any blame on her and going about building yourself up more as a Man to be more attracted too... 

If however ... deep down....you see her as de-prioritizing YOU as a husband.... this has a whole different response in dealing with the pain...in trying to jump through creative hoops to get her attention, without insulting her in the process (when it comes to a head in some conflict)... or the difficult walk to not slide into some form of escalating resentment....

Or so I would think.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Lots of great replies here and I thank you all... I have a lot to think about. This weekend has been a rollercoaster between us. She sensed there was something wrong with me on Friday and I tried to avoid talking about it, but she kind of pryed it out of me. She got upset on 2 levels... 1) that I lied to her at first and told her nothing was wrong and then 2) she overreacts and starts feeling like she can't do anything right, which is completely incorrect and I'm doing my best to reassure her that is totally not the case. We Recovered pretty quickly from that one though and went to bed on a good note. But I think the issue here is on both of our parts... 

Maybe I am feeling a little too needy lately and I'm thinking it's because I'm now so aware of my needs that even I'm having a hard time dealing with my newfound knowledge. TAM and the books I've been reading have become such eye-openers to me about relationships and it's been so much information over such a short time... Maybe I'm pushing too much too fast on her right now. It's hard though because I really feel that I have fallen in love with my wife all over again because of all this. But this journey has been my choice and not hers, so I think I'm being unreasonable to expect so much when this new journey was not her choice.

I do see what everyone is saying about doing the 180, but honestly, I think the 180 is often over-recommended. I believe in he 180 when a relationship is in dire straits where one spouse is completely neglecting the other's needs... And then the 180 makes a lot of sense. But in my situation where I really have a strong marriage to a good woman who is not deliberately hurting me, then I'm more skeptical about rationalizing the implementation of a 180.

My wife is seriously getting more upset at me lately because I won't communicate with her at first... I try to cover it up by lying and saying nothing is wrong. I think she's trying to communicate HER expectations to me. Perhaps many feel that talking about feelings is a trap for me to come off too weak and beta, but I'm getting a serious signal that I may have to risk that anyway because I think my communication and honesty is way more important to my wife than me securing some "alpha points" by holding out on her. 

My wife has in fact been trying for me with more intimacy too, and she hasn't outright rejected any of my advances lately since I kind of educated her on how much rejection can hurt. Since that talk she at least asks me before we go to bed if it's ok if she just goes to sleep that night... So she's keeping me in mind first at least I know. I think she's trying hard for me the best way she knows possible, because she is not the same as me and I need to be better at recognizing that.

I think I'm gonna try lowering the thermostat a little for her... But still communicate to her when I need her closeness and touch in bed. I think I'm on the cusp of going overboard with pushing the needs and relationship stuff and I have to be more patient with her. I love her too much for her to be feeling like she "can't do anything right lately"... Thats the complete opposite outcome I've been trying to achieve with her with all of this.

Thank you all for your support, and please keep it coming... I'm grateful for your insights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Bottled Up said:


> Since that talk she at least asks me before we go to bed if it's ok if she just goes to sleep that night.


She needs to tell you WHEN she will give you intimacy. A raincheck of sorts. If my husband has a need and I'm unavailable to give it to him I tell him when I will. And btw he's LD so his needs have nothing to do with sex.

"Honey I'm really tired tonight so I'm going to go to bed early but tomorrow you are my first priority". No asking on her part (that's weak on her side) just say it but then communicate the WHEN then will it happen.

See how this works?

PS she does seem to be trying - you just need to continue to educate her.


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