# Found out he has a secret phone



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Yesterday I found out purely by accident that he has a secret phone and gmail account.

I tried to change the password but the backup phone number for SMS shows two numbers as a hint. I have tried all our phone numbers but none of them work so I can't get in.

He has his security email as his work email address so there's not point in my doing anything with that.

I am still waiting for information on the hotel he was looking at which is where she stays during the week.

Should I confront him about his secret phone/email or wait until I hear from the PI who's checking the hotel bookings?

I don't think I can take another day of this. I shake so much I can barely hold a cup. My anxiety is off the graph.

I would be so gratefull for your thought on this.

By the way I take back all I said about not exposing this - you were right and I was wrong

Bronwen


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

take the phone to the PI?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> take the phone to the PI?


I don't have the phone I only know he has a secret phone because he entered some of the numbers in the gmail security page.

Thanks for replying

Bronwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This does not look good, does it?

You could throw a scare into him. Send him an email to his work account with just the address of his Gmail account as the only content?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sorry morning comprehension skills are lacking


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> This does not look good, does it?
> 
> You could throw a scare into him. Send him an email to his work account with just the address of his Gmail account as the only content?


and watch that email get deleted fast


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> This does not look good, does it?
> 
> You could throw a scare into him. Send him an email to his work account with just the address of his Gmail account as the only content?


It's not looking good at all.

I think that is a good idea. I could send an email

The trouble is he is such an accomplished liar.

Thanks for your advice it is appreciated and I think I will try it. 

I am getting nowhere fast at the moment and my health is begining to suffer.


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## Ansley (Apr 5, 2010)

uggg if you confront he will hide better. keep your cool (I know its hard) talk to a PI. They are expensive to hire but if you could get alot of ideas from a conversation. Everyone on here suggests VAR. I like the idea (well not like) I think it is a good idea to get 2. I hope you find nothing but my gut says your heart is about to break. Im sorry you are going through this.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> and watch that email get deleted fast


Do you know I am sitting here slowly losing my mind! 

I did have the sense to save all the screeens on my little netbook.

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Ansley said:


> uggg if you confront he will hide better. keep your cool (I know its hard) talk to a PI. They are expensive to hire but if you could get alot of ideas from a conversation. Everyone on here suggests VAR. I like the idea (well not like) I think it is a good idea to get 2. I hope you find nothing but my gut says your heart is about to break. Im sorry you are going through this.[/QUOTE
> 
> My heart is already broken this latest find has just ground whyat's left into the earth. I am trying very hard not to bolow this but it is so hard.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let the PI do his work and get your proof.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yea, don't say anything yet. Don't tip him off.

Would a key logger help on the computer?

Do you think he might have a PO box for cell bills, etc? If so get a credit report on him. It might give the PO box #.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I can't put anything in his car because of where he worksw - I'd go to jail! - but then at least I'd have some peace.


Is there any chance that he calls her from some place in your house? If so hide a VAR in that room. Leave the house if you have to go give him privacy.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> sorry morning comprehension skills are lacking



I don't know what I'd do without all of you - I think I would have cracked up by now.

I am touched by the effort you all make to help people who are mostly struggling to breath.

Thank you for caring.

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Is there any chance that he calls her from some place in your house? If so hide a VAR in that room. Leave the house if you have to go give him privacy.


He never calls from our home because we are usually here together. Next month I will be out on at least one evening a week so I could do it then because with me out of the house I am sure he would have a"field day" talking to her - I hate her!

Thank you

Bronwen


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> He never calls from our home because we are usually here together. Next month I will be out on at least one evening a week so I could do it then because with me out of the house I am sure he would have a"field day" talking to her - I hate her!
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Bronwen


Next month? That's weeks away. Can't you make an excuse, even make up that you need to go to the store and will be our for a couple of hours?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, don't say anything yet. Don't tip him off.
> 
> Would a key logger help on the computer?
> 
> Do you think he might have a PO box for cell bills, etc? If so get a credit report on him. It might give the PO box #.


I have been right through our home computer with a fine tooth comb. Nothing there not even hidden files. He has his own work laptop and it is password protected and I can't touch it 

He probably bought a burner phone or he is paying his bill through his work laptop.

Thank you

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Next month? That's weeks away. Can't you make an excuse, even make up that you need to go to the store and will be our for a couple of hours?


That is a very good suggestion. My brain doesn't seem to be working at all these days.

Thank you

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> Let the PI do his work and get your proof.



It looks as if this is my only option 

It makes sense.

Thank you


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> and watch that email get deleted fast


But at least he would know Bronwen is sharper and more savvy than he thinks.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Do you know I am sitting here slowly losing my mind!
> 
> I did have the sense to save all the screeens on my little netbook.
> 
> Bronwen


Save them off site, too, if you can, Yahoo or somewhere as attachments to emails.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jenny1981 said:


> Need some clarification, I understand exposing the affair if your leaving your cheating spouse or their leaving you. What is the purpose of exposure if you want to stay married. Ok first off it was a one night stand or a extremely short just sex affair then I do believe in time you may be able to trust again but never fully. I see so many postings where the bs wants to expose as to end the affair why bother, do you really want to keep someone who would do this to you and possibly your children. I think too many of the WS are getting off too easy. Is there not another option other then R or D. What about seperation, make them swaet it out for a while, make them pay for there mistakes. If you seperate you can date your spouse make them fall for you like they did years ago. I think if more people tried this route they would recover faster. How I see it now most let their heart not there heads lead them. If I had one wish it would be that all WS did the work for R and the bs should sit back and enjoy the ride. Ask yourself this, do you want to police or be your spouses warden? This is just my opinion. I think the 180 has some great points but could use some improvements.


Many marriages do recover after an affair. It's up the BS first adn the WS secondly if they want to do this.

The things that we generally suggest here are proven ways of handling affairs and recovery. 

A couple cannot start even considering recovery until the affair is broken up... so if it takes telling the OW/OM's spouse then so be it.

Seperation is very tricky because it usually leads to divorce. 

What you suggest may or may not work in the majority of cases. But do you have any data to back it up?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

jenny1981 said:


> Need some clarification, I understand exposing the affair if your leaving your cheating spouse or their leaving you. What is the purpose of exposure if you want to stay married. Ok first off it was a one night stand or a extremely short just sex affair then I do believe in time you may be able to trust again but never fully. I see so many postings where the bs wants to expose as to end the affair why bother, do you really want to keep someone who would do this to you and possibly your children. I think too many of the WS are getting off too easy. Is there not another option other then R or D. What about seperation, make them swaet it out for a while, make them pay for there mistakes. If you seperate you can date your spouse make them fall for you like they did years ago. I think if more people tried this route they would recover faster. How I see it now most let their heart not there heads lead them. If I had one wish it would be that all WS did the work for R and the bs should sit back and enjoy the ride. Ask yourself this, do you want to police or be your spouses warden? This is just my opinion. I think the 180 has some great points but could use some improvements.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His affair started a year ago. I found text messages on his phone, confronted him with the phone bill and all hell broke loose

In the following months I struggled to get him to take resposnibility for his actions - he thought it was a bit of fun!
I thought it had stopped but a couple of weeks ago I found evidence to the contrary.

They work for the same company but she is based elsewhere. I think he has beeen visiting her during the day.

I mention exposure because I think it is the only way that this affair might be ended and today I really feel like sharing the pain.

Thank you for replying

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Save them off site, too, if you can, Yahoo or somewhere as attachments to emails.



Good thinking
I'll do that


Bronwen


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Who would you expose the affair to?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> But at least he would know Bronwen is sharper and more savvy than he thinks.[/QUOTE
> 
> He really must think I'm stupid!
> 
> Bronwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BY the way, I feel that just have to point out that Bronwen is one of the nicest names in the entire history of names. (Of Welsh origin, as you, of course, will know!)


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Who would you expose the affair to?


Initially her husband

Bronwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > But at least he would know Bronwen is sharper and more savvy than he thinks.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> BY the way, I feel that just have to point out that Bronwen is one of the nicest names in the entire history of names. (Of Welsh origin, as you, of course, will know!)


Thank you very

Yes I'm a Taff


Broinwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Initially her husband
> 
> Bronwen


Good idea. The poor chap needs to know.

Do you know her husband? Is he a good bloke?

Blimey! Brit speak translation available if required!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> bronwen said:
> 
> 
> > No, he thinks you are loving and trusting. Which makes his treachery even worse, in my opinion.
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Thank you very
> 
> Yes I'm a Taff
> 
> ...


My family originated in Wales. *So it is now my duty to help you crush your evil Saesneg husband like the worm he is!*:smthumbup: :rofl:

Or at least make him see the error of his ways, which ever is your preference, My Lady Bronwen!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you - that is very kind
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> Initially her husband
> 
> Bronwen


But you said that she left her husband.

Does she have living parents? If so tell them as well.


If you have solid proof do it... as soon as your PI give you any info. When do think you will hear from the PI?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Good idea. The poor chap needs to know.
> 
> Do you know her husband? Is he a good bloke?
> 
> Blimey! Brit speak translation available if required!


You're fine with me -I'm a Welsh girl. No language difficulties.

I am sure her husband is a decent man. When I first founbd the text messages a year ago my horrible husband told his floozie that I thought they were having an affair. She said "well we are not -I am very happily married and my husband and boys would be devastated if they thought that.

Bronwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> But you said that she left her husband.
> 
> Does she have living parents? If so tell them as well.
> 
> ...


Maybe her husband doesn't know his wife is with Bronwen's idiot Saesneg husband?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jenny1981 said:


> Need some clarification, I understand exposing the affair if your leaving your cheating spouse or their leaving you. What is the purpose of exposure if you want to stay married.


jenny, if you do some more reading, you'll see that affairs follow a standard script. And the most powerful way to stop one is to expose it to the light of day for the slimy secret that it is. Once it is exposed, the cheater has a choice to make - thumb their noses at their family and friends and continue, or dump the OW/OM and return to the marriage. Once they do return, the 'fog' lifts and the PEA chemicals that have turned them into an alien start to dissipate and their original brain re-emerges. But it will NEVER happen unless you stop the affair in its tracks. And that requires exposure.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> You're fine with me -I'm a Welsh girl. No language difficulties.
> 
> I am sure her husband is a decent man. When I first founbd the text messages a year ago my horrible husband told his floozie that I thought they were having an affair. She said "well we are not -I am very happily married and my husband and boys would be devastated if they thought that.
> 
> Bronwen


I was thinking of our American friends on Tam who might require a translation!

Gawd knows what they'll make of Saesneg!:rofl:

Ummm he IS a Saesneg, isn't he? Please don't tell me he is Welsh, too?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bronwen said:


> Initially her husband
> 
> Bronwen


 You would expose to HIS parents and siblings at the same time. You need him to feel their disapproval because he doesn't care about yours.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> bronwen said:
> 
> 
> > You are not stupid (There ARE no Stupid Welsh women, my Gran was a Wise Woman of Wales, if you know what I mean) and your humiliation is forced upon you by a cruel man who does not deserve you in his life.
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I can't seem to tell the difference betwen hurt pride and the possible loss of a man I have loved for nearly 30 years
> ...


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I was thinking of our American friends on Tam who might require a translation!
> 
> Gawd knows what they'll make of Saesneg!:rofl:
> 
> Ummm he IS a Saesneg, isn't he? Please don't tell me he is Welsh, too?


No he's not Welsh - we wouldn't have him.

He's a Saes who wouldlove to be Welsh. 
The nearest he's got is a passport cover with a dragon on!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> bronwen said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the Welsh language chapel in Birmingham!
> ...


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My family originated in Wales. *So it is now my duty to help you crush your evil Saesneg husband like the worm he is!*:smthumbup: :rofl:
> 
> Or at least make him see the error of his ways, which ever is your preference, My Lady Bronwen!



You're not a cottage burner are you?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know. I change my mind all thetime.
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> You're not a cottage burner are you?


Who me? Nah. Sadly I was born in Birmingham of good Welsh stock!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> But you said that she left her husband.
> 
> Does she have living parents? If so tell them as well.
> 
> ...


No, she hasn't left her husband - she's just borrowing mine!

Bronwen


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> You're fine with me -I'm a Welsh girl. No language difficulties.
> 
> I am sure her husband is a decent man. When I first founbd the text messages a year ago my horrible husband told his floozie that I thought they were having an affair. She said "well we are not -I am very happily married and my husband and boys would be devastated if they thought that.
> 
> Bronwen


I'm half Welsh.... haven't figured out which half yet though :rofl:


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Who me? Nah. Sadly I was born in Birmingham of good Welsh stock!


That's O.K then

Bronwen


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> No, she hasn't left her husband - she's just borrowing mine!
> 
> Bronwen


So give him the proof... especially the proof of how long this has gone on... vindication of you bing the truth teller all that time ago.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm half Welsh.... haven't figured out which half yet though :rofl:


#

Then we must investigate this! I need all the help I can get 

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So give him the proof... especially the proof of how long this has gone on... vindication of you bing the truth teller all that time ago.



I have lots of proof from last year = phone bills etc but not much now. I will just keep looking.

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> bronwen said:
> 
> 
> > Blimey! What a small world!
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> No, she hasn't left her husband - she's just borrowing mine!
> 
> Bronwen




When she already has one of her own? Greedy mare!

By the way, something to be put to your husband, how many other husbands is she sleeping with?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm half Welsh.... haven't figured out which half yet though :rofl:


Why, the beautiful, musical side, of course!:smthumbup:


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

jenny1981 said:


> So if the bs knows about a possible affair for a year does her WS know that she knows? And did you not tell him last year it had to stop?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, last year I "did the right thing". In the months following my initial discovery I told no-one apart from the people here on TAM so that we could find a way of reconciling.


I tried to get my husband to talk to me about it and explain why he felt the need to do this.
He never ever wanted to talk to me and eventually got very angry if I brought up the subject.

This time if we are ever to stay together this affair must end. If it is kept secret - he will just find another way of doing it.

Thanks foirnmyour replies

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> When she already has one of her own? Greedy mare!
> 
> By the way, something to be put to your husband, how many other husbands is she sleeping with?


Funny you should say that - he told me that she was sending jokes and comments of very questionable taste to all the men in the office.

Bronwen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Funny you should say that - he told me that she was sending jokes and comments of very questionable taste to all the men in the office.
> 
> Bronwen


Yes, but she told him that they were only jokes and comments of very questionable taste to all the men in the office. That she was, of course, being competently faithful to her husband. No, sorry, to her lovers. Oops! Did she accidentally use the plural? Of course, she meant that she was only his little cheatiepoos. 

My God! Did your husband really buy that load of old tripe? He really must be in the fog of infidelity!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

I have read on here about affairs and condom use or lack of it = (I hate this subject but needs must)

The norm seems to be no condoms and if this is true in my husband's case I have just realised she's going to be really, really sorry she started this!!!!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes, but she told him that they were only jokes and comments of very questionable taste to all the men in the office. That she was, of course, being competently faithful to her husband. No, sorry, to her lovers. Oops! Did she accidentally use the plural? Of course, she meant that she was only his little cheatiepoos.
> 
> My God! Did your husband really buy that load of old tripe? He really must be in the fog of infidelity!


At the moment I'd like to beat the c**p out of him or have her husband to do it. youn can't go around stealing other men's wives and keep you looks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I have read on here about affairs and condom use or lack of it = (I hate this subject but needs must)
> 
> The norm seems to be no condoms and if this is true in my husband's case I have just realised she's going to be really, really sorry she started this!!!!


Why will she be sorry?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> I have read on here about affairs and condom use or lack of it = (I hate this subject but needs must)
> 
> The norm seems to be no condoms and if this is true in my husband's case I have just realised she's going to be really, really sorry she started this!!!!


Oh. Oh... dear!  Why? (Don't say if you don't want to. I do not want to pry.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> At the moment I'd like to beat the c**p out of him or have her husband to do it. youn can't go around stealing other men's wives and keep you looks


Violence doesn't solve anything. Well, it does, but it shouldn't be required, as people, ideally, should not cheat.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Bronwen, is there something her husband needs to be warned about that might impinge on his health?*


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh. Oh... dear!  Why? (Don't say if you don't want to. I do not want to pry.)


The gift that keeps on giving from previous life

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> *Bronwen, is there something her husband needs to be warned about that might impinge on his health?*


More on hers


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Why will she be sorry?


Sent you pm

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Please explain


I thought I had sent you a pm I'm not very good at this

Would you mind checking if it has arrived

Thanks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I thought I had sent you a pm I'm not very good at this
> 
> Would you mind checking if it has arrived
> 
> Thanks


Yes I answered


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just answered your PM. It could be both. It would certainly impact on any future relationships of her husband, if he kicks her out and tries to remarry.

What a stinking, dirty mess your idiot husband has created.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Just answered your PM. It could be both. It would certainly impact on any future relationships of her husband, if he kicks her out and tries to remarry.
> 
> What a stinking, dirty mess your idiot husband has created.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Keylogger! He obviously used the computer to enter the numbers, as u found it there. Keyloggr will find the passwords.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I'd just point out there are 4G burner smartphones. You don't need a computer for the most part.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi Bronwen, I am so sorry to see this latest development.

From what I can see you have basically two choices - you can either use what knowledge you have, even though you have no proof, and kick him out. If he refuses to leave, you could. Or, you can continue to wait and let your PI do his job. Have you told the PI about the phone?

You also need to do everything you can to reduce your stress level. You are seeing a therapist so that's good. Have you considered short term use of something to calm yourself? Are you eating?

I am also wondering why she will be sorry?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Hi Bronwen, I am so sorry to see this latest development.
> 
> From what I can see you have basically two choices - you can either use what knowledge you have, even though you have no proof, and kick him out. If he refuses to leave, you could. Or, you can continue to wait and let your PI do his job. Have you told the PI about the phone?
> 
> ...


I will wait for PI

I will pm you about the other thing

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

I have just heard from the PI that they ave just met at a hotel. I can' stop shaking. My mind has gone blank.

He is ringing me later - should I say anything or wait until he comes home tomorrow?

The PI has taken photographs

I could ring him now - they are in the room together

Help - I feel like ending it all

Bronwen


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Bronwen, you are not alone in this and I'm so sorry. Keep breathing. I would not confront over the phone, that will give them time to try to cover before he comes home. Wait until you can show him the photos in person? 
Again I am so sorry. This hurts so much


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Go ahead and call him even if he doesn't pick up you can leave him a message not to come home. Hopefully he does pick up and you can ruin the mood.

Get the hotel name and number and ask for his name and call him at the room, if they won't give you his room then ask to leave a voice message telling him not to go home.

Do you know the OW? If not you might want to hold off so as to get info on OW and expose it to her husband /BF.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Bronwen, you are not alone in this and I'm so sorry. Keep breathing. I would not confront over the phone, that will give them time to try to cover before he comes home. Wait until you can show him the photos in person?
> Again I am so sorry. This hurts so much


I know you are right but how do I get through tonight. I am on my own.

Today is when I found out that his EA has become a PA

Thank you for the wise advice

Bronwen


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

I would call. Ruin it for him. The PI already has the proof, right?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Call him and leave a message stating the he's is not welcome home and to call the front desk and ask for more nights.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Go ahead and call him even if he doesn't pick up you can leave him a message not to come home. Hopefully he does pick up and you can ruin the mood.
> 
> Get the hotel name and number and ask for his name and call him at the room, if they won't give you his room then ask to leave a voice message telling him not to go home.
> 
> Do you know the OW? If not you might want to hold off so as to get info on OW and expose it to her husband /BF.


I just called him about something insignificant and he didn't answer his phone. He than called me back and sounded perfectly normal - I am stunned!!!!!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> I would call. Ruin it for him. The PI already has the proof, right?


I just called = he sounded totally normal ?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> I would call. Ruin it for him. The PI already has the proof, right?


pull the trigger and expose now. Don't wait cause this could be the tipping point. KIll it end it show up if you have to. 

This is your marriage if you want it to have a chance ACT NOW.

Otherwise get a lawyer and end it. If you do nothing now your actions tell me you are out. If you still want this act now and show your WH that this is over and your marriage comes first.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Both pluto and the guy make good points. He didn't answer the first time in order to get his thoughts together and pretend everything is normal.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Go ahead and call him even if he doesn't pick up you can leave him a message not to come home. Hopefully he does pick up and you can ruin the mood.
> 
> Get the hotel name and number and ask for his name and call him at the room, if they won't give you his room then ask to leave a voice message telling him not to go home.
> 
> Do you know the OW? If not you might want to hold off so as to get info on OW and expose it to her husband /BF.


I don't know OW but I know all about her - she works with him

I have all the hotel details but I should wait for the photographs

I have just spoke to him and he sounds normal - what a despicable liar

Bronwen


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

badbane said:


> pull the trigger and expose now. Don't wait cause this could be the tipping point. KIll it end it show up if you have to.
> 
> This is your marriage if you want it to have a chance ACT NOW.
> 
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How about calling him back and telling him about an emergancy and he is needed home NOW!

make something up, tell him will you were on the phone with him last you got in an accident the car is totaled.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this, and I don't know what your best option is.

Me...I'd call and ruin his little FN date right now, and then I'd start the D process.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok wait for the photoes and confront him in person, in the mean time call there employer and inform them of the affair and the proof you have.

does the OW have a BF or husband?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

can the PI get info on the OW and also her husband's cell or contact info if she is married?

I would look into exposing it to OWH right before confronting so the whole affair gets sent in a downward and quick spiral


----------



## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

bronwen said:


> badbane said:
> 
> 
> > pull the trigger and expose now. Don't wait cause this could be the tipping point. KIll it end it show up if you have to.
> ...


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Sorry you're going through this, and I don't know what your best option is.
> 
> Me...I'd call and ruin his little FN date right now, and then I'd start the D process.


The trouble is that the PI is in the hotel now. If I confront him now I might blow it.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

"what a despicable liar....."

He thinks you are ignorant and he has the fabulous secret life, and he thinks he's too smart for you to discover what he's been up to. Right now he is not remorseful. He is thick in the fog. If you want to keep the marriage, be prepared to hear his wrath upon discovery.
Can you stay with a man like this?
If your heart is telling you to fight for the marriage, then fight. If he is willing to totally reveal, to NC (which may be difficult since he works with the wh***), to get help and to enter a true R, others on the board will tell you the marriage can be saved. It will totally suck. (sorry)
Regardless of what you decide, please remember you are not alone. I'm sending you ((hugs)) to help you through this horrible time.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ask the PI's advice and best option


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

maybe the PI can meet with you now


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Why do you need the pictures printed? You will see them (If you want) in time. You already kno what you need to know. It's a PA, they are now at the hotel. Take decisive actions.
Do you have a lawyer?
Depending on what you want you can ever decide not to confront before putting the D rolling. Maybe you want to confront him now.
In that case pack his stuff in garbage bags, drop it at his car at the hotel and call him. Lock the house. Go dark.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If it was me, I'd probably call and report all his credit cards as stolen. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> "what a despicable liar....."
> 
> He thinks you are ignorant and he has the fabulous secret life, and he thinks he's too smart for you to discover what he's been up to. Right now he is not remorseful. He is thick in the fog. If you want to keep the marriage, be prepared to hear his wrath upon discovery.
> Can you stay with a man like this?
> ...



I don't know what I would do without all you lovely people on TAM

I don't know what I want at the moment , I am still in shock

I know for sure I will never be able to trust him again.

What I have to work outt is what I feel for him because at the moment I am numb.

Thanks for tslking to me

Bronwen


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You have a lot of options and perspective here, now is the time to calm down and think.

Write down the options;

*call now with new message "do not come home"

* wait a few days and confront face to face w.photos

* show up and confront

* screw it... all go dark and expose and have him served

* report his CC being stolen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

PBear said:


> If it was me, I'd probably call and report all his credit cards as stolen.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I love this!!


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

bronwen said:


> The trouble is that the PI is in the hotel now. If I confront him now I might blow it.


Call the PI ask him what he has. Go there are end this otherwise your husband is going to have sex with this woman. If he hasn't already done it now. 

You need to Choose R or D cause if you wait it is going to be D.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you asked the PI's his opinion on confronting now?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> maybe the PI can meet with you now



He is 300 miles away


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> You have a lot of options and perspective here, now is the time to calm down and think.
> 
> Write down the options;
> 
> ...



I think I will wait until he comes home. If I confront him now he will just lie and it will also give him and her time to think up a story.

I heed to calm down and take the emotion out of this

Thanks

Bronwen


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

3 option left;

call and tell him not to come home

wait for his return and confront f to f

Go dark


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Ok wait for the photoes and confront him in person, in the mean time call there employer and inform them of the affair and the proof you have.
> 
> does the OW have a BF or husband?



She is married with two teenage sons. Swears she is very happily married.

I will certainly share the pain this time


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> can the PI get info on the OW and also her husband's cell or contact info if she is married?
> 
> I would look into exposing it to OWH right before confronting so the whole affair gets sent in a downward and quick spiral


Understood (not like last time!)

Bronwen


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Confronting face to face seems like a lot of drama and sitting there and listening to a bunch of lies like " we just needed a quiet place to tale and nothing happened" way listen to the lies and bull crap...hell he might even break down and cry and beg who knows


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

the guy said:


> 3 option left;
> 
> call and tell him not to come home
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

At this point, I agree with Guy and on the "call and tell him not to come home." You need time to think this through and decide what you want, and how you want to proceed. You don't need his lying crap in your face. He had the A on his schedule. Now that you know, your life is on YOUR schedule.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Why do you need the pictures printed? You will see them (If you want) in time. You already kno what you need to know. It's a PA, they are now at the hotel. Take decisive actions.
> Do you have a lawyer?
> Depending on what you want you can ever decide not to confront before putting the D rolling. Maybe you want to confront him now.
> In that case pack his stuff in garbage bags, drop it at his car at the hotel and call him. Lock the house. Go dark.


I see your point but at the moment I can't think a straight thought. My mind is in pieces and so am I


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell the PI you are going to call him and for the PI to get ready to take pics of them leaving.

Then call him. Tell him you know he is there cheating, freak him out


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Confronting face to face seems like a lot of drama and sitting there and listening to a bunch of lies like " we just needed a quiet place to tale and nothing happened" way listen to the lies and bull crap...hell he might even break down and cry and beg who knows



Point taken


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

That changes everything, GO DARK.....why cuz you need to expose this to OWH and let him know what you have.

Then the both of can confront, often the OW will throw your WH under the bus to save her own marriage.

Do not call and confront, take the time to come up with the best confrontatio that will be most effective in ending the A.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

badbane said:


> Call the PI ask him what he has. Go there are end this otherwise your husband is going to have sex with this woman. If he hasn't already done it now.
> 
> You need to Choose R or D cause if you wait it is going to be D.



I think he has already had sex with this woman. They had an EA about 18 months ago. He told me the usual lies that it was over. I think it either never stopped or it started again this May.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to determine what you ultimately want. Would you take back this man?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

the guy said:


> That changes everything, GO DARK.....why cuz you need to expose this to OWH and let him know what you have.
> 
> Then the both of can confront, often the OW will throw your WH under the bus to save her own marriage.
> 
> Do not call and confront, take the time to come up with the best confrontatio that will be most effective in ending the A.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

You have to expose to OWH before confronting your husband!!!!!! If not, they will get their stories straight and OWH won't believe a word you say.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If he is 300 miles away is he flying? Can you expose to the OWH while your husband is I the air coming home?

Though since you have pics and hard proof any stories he has won't hold up, I'd be doing something today to ruin their fun.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> You need to determine what you ultimately want. Would you take back this man?



I don't know whi this man is. He is not the person I married 25 years ago


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If he is 300 miles away is he flying? Can you expose to the OWH while your husband is I the air coming home?
> 
> Though since you have pics and hard proof any stories he has won't hold up, I'd be doing something today to ruin their fun.



I think the pcitures will tell the story. He won't be able to lie his way out of that


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

bronwen said:


> She is married with two teenage sons. Swears she is very happily married.
> 
> I will certainly share the pain this time


My 1st approach was to ruin there fun today, but the distance and the logistics don't seem possible. 

You calling and confronting will lose the edge and OWH may even be warned or a game plan could start....remember they are 10 step ahead of you....today you just become one step a head....now is the time to get ten step ahead of them.

slow down, the shaking will go away. 

let the PI do his job, while you help out by getting the Info on OWH, start with social sights and get his name, look for his address and were her works.

You have a lot of work infront of you so start finding the husband.

This tactic is so important when it comes to fighting the affair.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How much time to you have before WH comes home?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> My 1st approach was to ruin there fun today, but the distance and the logistics don't seem possible.
> 
> You calling and confronting will lose the edge and OWH may even be warned or a game plan could start....remember they are 10 step ahead of you....today you just become one step a head....now is the time to get ten step ahead of them.
> 
> ...


What you said has cleared my mind. thank you for that.

I now if I confront now I will lose the edge and I need to calm down and stop shaking.

I have a lot to think about and I need to get my ducks in a row.

Thank you

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If he is 300 miles away is he flying? Can you expose to the OWH while your husband is I the air coming home?
> 
> Though since you have pics and hard proof any stories he has won't hold up, I'd be doing something today to ruin their fun.



He 's driving and he'll be home tomorrow


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Yes, *DO NOT* make the same mistake I made by *confronting too early*.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The reason I ask is cuz you need to make a plan and work the plan....no time for self pity here its time to fight, and poeple to call like a lawyer, finding OWH, there employer, and WH family.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> How much time to you have before WH comes home?



About 24 hours


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Now ask me how I knew your were shaking?......I'm "the guy with the cheating wife"


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Yes, *DO NOT* make the same mistake I made by *confronting too early*.



I did the same thing on DDay 1. I wish I had waited.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I would take the time to find OWH... it gives you a day to find his contact info and 1/2 a day to expose the A to him.

This is #1 priority.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Sorry if I missed it earlier. H is on a business trip, and the OW lives in this town 300 miles away? Or, is she a coworker, possibly sharing the same hotel on this biz trip?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> The reason I ask is cuz you need to make a plan and work the plan....no time for self pity here its time to fight, and poeple to call like a lawyer, finding OWH, there employer, and WH family.



I really need a plan.

I don't feel sorry for myself - just bewildered

I will get my fightback - soon I hope


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Go to the store and buy a personal blender, a lot of frozen fruit, and some almond milk. When reality hits eating may become difficult. Try to have a few smoothies everyday.

While you're enjoying a smoothie try to find OWH's info so you can expose to him. Time it close to when your H will arrive home, or have a friend expose for you once your H walks in the door. Good luck, and I'm sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Now ask me how I knew your were shaking?......I'm "the guy with the cheating wife"




I hate the shaking although I should be used to it by now.

Over the past 4 months, everytime I found something that didn't look right I would just shake - couldn't hold a cup sometimes - or a glass!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I did the same thing on DDay 1. I wish I had waited.


OK 
Confirmed PA = check
Don't confront to earily = check
Expose A to OWH = un checked
Expose A to family = unchecked
Confront WH= unchecked
Expose A to employer HR Dept. = unchecked

My point here is you need a plan so get organized


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

WhereAmI said:


> Go to the store and buy a personal blender, a lot of frozen fruit, and some almond milk. When reality hits eating may become difficult. Try to have a few smoothies everyday.
> 
> While you're enjoying a smoothie try to find OWH's info so you can expose to him. Time it close to when your H will arrive home, or have a friend expose for you once your H walks in the door. Good luck, and I'm sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for the eating advice. At the moment everything tastes like sand. Can't eat at all. I do have a blender and I will try a smoothie.

I am now going to find OWH


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Keep us posted.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> OK
> Confirmed PA = check
> Don't confront to earily = check
> Expose A to OWH = un checked
> ...


I needed someone to give me guidelines. This is excellent. I will go through it point by point and write everything down.

Thank you very much.

Do you knoiw the stange thing is I am not uspet like I was the first time I just feel quite detached from him as a person and I only feel the enormity of what has been done to me.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Sorry if I missed it earlier. H is on a business trip, and the OW lives in this town 300 miles away? Or, is she a coworker, possibly sharing the same hotel on this biz trip?



They work for the same company. They used to work together but she moved to a department 200 miles away from him.

He is away on business today in a place just half an hour from where she works.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sometimes the littlest things can yield the best results like just Googling OW name may show her husband...

Even the yellow pages can get you enough info to find OWH


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Sometimes the littlest things can yield the best results like just Googling OW name may show her husband...
> 
> Even the yellow pages can get you enough info to find OWH


I will trythat - thanks


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

bronwen said:


> They work for the same company. They used to work together but she moved to a department 200 miles away from him.
> 
> He is away on business today in a place just half an hour from where she works.


So...he could try to say that the two of them were going over company business in his room. I know...total BS, but that will probably be his story. Unless the PI has pics of them touching as they were heading in.

Maybe you can nail the sk*nk on misuse of company time. Doesn't help you at all, but I'm a vindictive mofo for crap like this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Well this indifference you have for him right now might serve you well as your job today is coming up with a sort of business plan on how to make this A as uncomfortable and as inconvient as possible.

Once you get OW out of the picture then you can think about keeping him or not.

Just like any agenda/ out line....you have heading, subheadings and subject matter and a schedual for each heading.

work that plan girl and stay strong...you got what you need today now its time for the next step, then after that another step, then after that another step.....step by step girl you will get htru this crap.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

the guy said:


> OK
> Confirmed PA = check
> Don't confront to earily = check
> Expose A to OWH = un checked
> ...


also make appointments for lawyer and doctor


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> So...he could try to say that the two of them were going over company business in his room. I know...total BS, but that will probably be his story. Unless the PI has pics of them touching as they were heading in.
> 
> Maybe you can nail the sk*nk on misuse of company time. Doesn't help you at all, but I'm a vindictive mofo for crap like this.


He wil lie through his tetth, but I will have photographs which he won't be able to deny.

Do you know he phoned me at teatime today (UK) and while we were talking he said "have to go - call waiting" The PI said it was her calling as he overheard both conversations.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> also make appointments for lawyer and doctor


I have a lawyer but I must go to the doctor's tomorrow because I feel as if I am cracking up. I feel dreadful weird physical symptoms and sheer panic at the moment.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Well this indifference you have for him right now might serve you well as your job today is coming up with a sort of business plan on how to make this A as uncomfortable and as inconvient as possible.
> 
> Once you get OW out of the picture then you can think about keeping him or not.
> 
> ...



That makes so mmuch sense.

The only thing i don't know is what his feelings are for the OW -


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think taking him back would be very foolish. Fool me once..


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

bronwen said:


> That makes so mmuch sense.
> 
> The only thing i don't know is what his feelings are for the OW -



This is the 50 yo woman he's with now, right? At the very least, he's sexually interested in someone younger.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I have a lawyer but I must go to the doctor's tomorrow because I feel as if I am cracking up. I feel dreadful weird physical symptoms and sheer panic at the moment.


try your best to relax, what you are experiencing is an anxiety attack. Can you do something calming like meditation or yoga or even exercise?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

bronwen said:


> That makes so mmuch sense.
> 
> The only thing i don't know is what his feelings are for the OW -


Do you really want to know that right now, you have so much to take care of?

I can only say from experience and you won't like what I have to say!!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you won't take him back?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> I think taking him back would be very foolish. Fool me once..



I absolutely agree.

I an just trying to get my mind in some sort of order

This is like living in a parallel universe


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> try your best to relax, what you are experiencing is an anxiety attack. Can you do something calming like meditation or yoga or even exercise?


Yes I'm having anxiety attacks

I have use Mindfullness before (Full Catastrophe Living - Jon Cabat Zin) but I can't get there yet I am running on adrenaline


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Do you really want to know that right now, you have so much to take care of?
> 
> I can only say from experience and you won't like what I have to say!!!!


There again you have said exactly the right thing.

No I don't need to know. It is not important. I have a lot to do.

I need to work out how I feel and at the moment I hold out no hope of our marriage survuving this - it is too much.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe some calming herbal tea to get you in a better place?


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Right now you know for certain that he is a liar and a cheat; but most likely the OWH, and their bosses, do not know either of those things.

If confronted immediately with the photos of them in the same hotel, they can spin a tale, that while far fetched, will provide some type of cover for them, especially for those who do not know what they are really like.,

You probably need to provide the OWH with the photos to just get him to begin to believe his wife is a cheater, but suggest he confront without the photos and specific information they provide, so that he can see first hand how easily his wife can lie to his face without blinking.....that will unfortunately be a real wake up call to him.

Same with the bosses.......provide the info without the photos....after they lie their rears off to provide cover....send the photos (and any other tangible evidence) so that the bosses know not to believe their cover stories.

In my world.....unraveling tale tales and getting to the truth usually requires getting the subject to commit to a story based on the weaker evidence, and save the best evidence to nail them as a liar in addition to the transgression.

very sorry it has come to this.....hopefully you already gave some thought into your plans in the event the PI confirmed your fears....but I am guessing you were truly hoping for the other way around.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> So you won't take him back?





I don't see how I can given that he is such an accomplished liar.

I wouldn't have a moment's peace - ever


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> Right now you know for certain that he is a liar and a cheat; but most likely the OWH, and their bosses, do not know either of those things.
> 
> If confronted immediately with the photos of them in the same hotel, they can spin a tale, that while far fetched, will provide some type of cover for them, especially for those who do not know what they are really like.,
> 
> ...


The Pi confirmed what I had a gut feeling about for some time - but no evidence. Yes I was hoping for a different result but it is what it is.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> maybe some calming herbal tea to get you in a better place?


I am now going to have a cup of camomile (sp) tea


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK so if you are not going to be taking him back you have time. I think the most important thing right now is for you to take care of YOU. Somehow you need to calm down. What do you think will work?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

At least you know to trust your gut. Try to not push those feelings away going forward - it will help you in the long run to TRUST YOURSELF and your decisions


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I am now going to have a cup of camomile (sp) tea


I knew you'd have a variety of teas being in the UK


take a moment, sip your tea, get relaxed and find your inner b!tch, you have some ass kicking to do


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

bronwen said:


> The Pi confirmed what I had a gut feeling about for some time - but no evidence. Yes I was hoping for a different result but it is what it is.


...I am so sorry. Although it is probably too early for you to say how you want this story to truly end, remember that you do not need to prove anything further, to you or him, to make your best decisions as this goes on. In other words.....don't allow ANY crazymaking on his part.....he knows...and you know....what happened. 

As to proving to others about the A and the deception......well that just helps keep you from being painted as the bad/crazy lady, and helps make the A most inconvenient in case you ultimately choose to see if R is possible.....but most of all take care of yourself.

Look into the nearest mirror and tell yourself convincingly that you are looking at a wonderful person.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> OK so if you are not going to be taking him back you have time. I think the most important thing right now is for you to take care of YOU. Somehow you need to calm down. What do you think will work?


I think if I can eat something my blood sugar might normalise and perhaps I will feel less anxious - trouble is the sight of food just turns me of.

I have some valerian tablets and I have just taken one.

Thank you Hope


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> At least you know to trust your gut. Try to not push those feelings away going forward - it will help you in the long run to TRUST YOURSELF and your decisions


I wish my gut feelings were not so reliable.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

bronwen said:


> I think if I can eat something my blood sugar might normalise and perhaps I will feel less anxious - trouble is the sight of food just turns me of.
> 
> I have some valerian tablets and I have just taken one.
> 
> Thank you Hope


...and once you have a game plan for moving ahead on this......being by yourself and/or inactive will let your mind keep trying to solve a problem that is not solvable by thinking about it.

if you have a friend or a group that you could just be with, that may be enough of a distraction to let your thoughts settle, and not keep escalating. and I use oatmeal with brown sugar to raise blood sugar, but also keep it from spiking and then dropping off.........but candy bars are just so tempting.......


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I knew you'd have a variety of teas being in the UK
> 
> 
> take a moment, sip your tea, get relaxed and find your inner b!tch, you have some ass kicking to do


Tea is helping a lot

He just phoned me to say he was going down to the restaurant with a male colleague for dinner.. He said he spent the last 4 hours writing reports.

I this wasn't so sad it would be hillarious!!!!!


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How is the PI going to send you the proof?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Writing reports! What a putz.

MAKE yourself eat something. Nibble on some soda crackers or digestive biscuits or something. Once you get a bit down more will be easier.

If I were you I would get all the locks changed and put all his stuff outside with a GET THE HELL OUT OF MY LIFE note.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bronwen said:


> I wish my gut feelings were not so reliable.


Yes you do. Withtout those feelings how would you protect yourself!!! If there is one person you SHOULD be able to trust in this world, its yourself.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ...and once you have a game plan for moving ahead on this......being by yourself and/or inactive will let your mind keep trying to solve a problem that is not solvable by thinking about it.
> 
> if you have a friend or a group that you could just be with, that may be enough of a distraction to let your thoughts settle, and not keep escalating. and I use oatmeal with brown sugar to raise blood sugar, but also keep it from spiking and then dropping off.........but candy bars are just so tempting.......


I have oatmeal and brown sugar and I will try that.

I have just emailed the therapist I had been seeing and have arranged an appointment for next week.

I see what you are sayng about solving a problem that can's be solved it just goed rounf and round in my head.

I have been reading Just Let Them Go. It seems so appropriate at the moment.

I am just taking things moment to moment now

Bronwen


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Yes you do. Withtout those feelings how would you protect yourself!!! If there is one person you SHOULD be able to trust in this world, its yourself.



I hadn't thought of it in that way you have taught me something


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Writing reports! What a putz.
> 
> MAKE yourself eat something. Nibble on some soda crackers or digestive biscuits or something. Once you get a bit down more will be easier.
> 
> If I were you I would get all the locks changed and put all his stuff outside with a GET THE HELL OUT OF MY LIFE note.


 have just eaten a chocolate biscuit.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> How is the PI going to send you the proof?


By email and by post


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

bronwen said:


> I have oatmeal and brown sugar and I will try that.
> 
> I have just emailed the therapist I had been seeing and have arranged an appointment for next week.
> 
> ...


..remember, a lot of folks here are in your corner. We are rooting for you (although not a poster, I have been here in the shadows for over a year just reading, spending hours daily....someday maybe I can man up and say why...but another day). You strike me as a strong person, able to be independent. Once you stabilize, you will be that person again.


----------



## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

bronwen said:


> By email and by post


When do you get the e-mail? Later today?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I don't see how I can given that he is such an accomplished liar.
> 
> I wouldn't have a moment's peace - ever


 Ok then, move forward. You know you don't want him so take steps to make him not part of your life. Pack his clothes, put it all on the front porch, bring in a locksmith, and show him you're taking a stand. You can't legally keep him out, most likely, but he may not know that, and not being able to get in the house sends a VERY powerful message. Do this for YOU.


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Tea is helping a lot
> 
> He just phoned me to say he was going down to the restaurant with a male colleague for dinner.. He said he spent the last 4 hours writing reports.
> 
> I this wasn't so sad it would be hillarious!!!!!


As I understand it, here's what you have now...

1. PI saw them go into room together and took pictures.

2. PI overheard conversation with you (who he hung up on) and the OW. Did he say WHAT he heard? Anything that would indicate they were meeting for a romantic meet and not work?

3. He's lying to you about doing reports and heading out with a "male" co-worker.

So, everyone knows what is up here...but he can still deny this. They went to the room to get some reports done. He lied and didn't tell you because he knew you'd be jealous (and / or he didn't want you to be concerned). "But really honey, it was just WORK!"

Like I said, everyone KNOWS what's going on here, and even if it weren't, the LIES would be sufficient cause for me to end it, but are you going to be able to present him with some kind of PROOF (pictures of kissing, details of his phone conversation...something)?

You're doing good playing it cool. Were it me, I'd like to think I could do so, and that when he came home tomorrow his first clue that something was up would be walking up to the front door with boxes of his crap on the front step, and the door locks changed. I would not even tell him what I knew, just a little note on top of the boxes of his crap that says "I know. And I'm done with you. You need to disappear from my life now." 

Let him stew in the unknown and uncertainty the way you have. Let him see how sould destroying and all consuming it is. Go completely dark on his sorry azz. Don't answer his calls or answer the door. Let him go batchit crazy wondering what you know, and how you found out.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> Ok then, move forward. You know you don't want him so take steps to make him not part of your life. Pack his clothes, put it all on the front porch, bring in a locksmith, and show him you're taking a stand. You can't legally keep him out, most likely, but he may not know that, and not being able to get in the house sends a VERY powerful message. Do this for YOU.


+100


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> Let him stew in the unknown and uncertainty the way you have. Let him see how sould destroying and all consuming it is. Go completely dark on his sorry azz. Don't answer his calls or answer the door. Let him go batchit crazy wondering what you know, and how you found out.


Oh, and I say the above because of this...partly. You have no real idea what you want to do now. I'm sure you're either now, or in the future will consider reconcilliation, even if only briefly. If that is the case, and you want to have your best shot at making sure he KNOWS YOU MEAN BUSINESS and that you would NEVER TOLERATE THIS AGAIN, is to TURN HIS WORLD COMPLETELY UPSIDE DOWN RIGHT NOW. Act completely different than you ever had with him. Go completely dark for a long time (at least a week) before you even consider talking to him. He needs to feel and LIVE the VERY REAL FEAR AND PANIC THAT YOU ARE LEAVING HIM FOR GOOD THIS TIME. He needs to understand what that feels like if you're to have any hope of changing him.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's a little list for you, Bronwen:

Confirmed PA = check
Don't confront to early = check

Remember to eat
Be intentional about destressing

sip chamomile
take valerian
meditation/prayer
yoga/exercise
Remember to rest

Investigate to find OW's H
Set an appt. with Lawyer
Set an appt. with your Doctor
Set an appt. with Therapist
Pack his clothes
Put it all on the front porch

Expose A to OWH 
Expose A to family: 

your parents and siblings 
his parents and siblings 
your employer 
his employer 
pastor or minister if you have one
Confront WH


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donny64 said:


> As I understand it, here's what you have now...
> 
> 1. PI saw them go into room together and took pictures.
> 
> ...


You have summed up the situation perfectly.

I want to calm down and take all the emotion away before I confront him. If I start to cry or shout or swear (which is what I did on DDay1 and for months afterwards) then I will lose any advantage I have and he will run rings around me - he's done it before. Also to be perfectly frank I really want to watch him squirm.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You don't have to confront him when he comes home. Just don't let him in the house. Take a week or two, or a month even, of complete no contact with him (assuming he doesn't bully his way into your life somehow.) Detach from him emotionally. Do it on YOUR terms. That's why I suggested kicking him out.

The 3 months of no contact I had after kicking my husband out were priceless.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donny64 said:


> Oh, and I say the above because of this...partly. You have no real idea what you want to do now. I'm sure you're either now, or in the future will consider reconcilliation, even if only briefly. If that is the case, and you want to have your best shot at making sure he KNOWS YOU MEAN BUSINESS and that you would NEVER TOLERATE THIS AGAIN, is to TURN HIS WORLD COMPLETELY UPSIDE DOWN RIGHT NOW. Act completely different than you ever had with him. Go completely dark for a long time (at least a week) before you even consider talking to him. He needs to feel and LIVE the VERY REAL FEAR AND PANIC THAT YOU ARE LEAVING HIM FOR GOOD THIS TIME. He needs to understand what that feels like if you're to have any hope of changing him.



I am in a hell of a mess mentally. We have been married for a long time. Known each other for 30 years.

I will never ever tolerate this again but I need to plan what I want. It's not easy. I


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You don't have to confront him when he comes home. Just don't let him in the house. Take a week or two, or a month even, of complete no contact with him (assuming he doesn't bully his way into your life somehow.) Detach from him emotionally. Do it on YOUR terms. That's why I suggested kicking him out.
> 
> The 3 months of no contact I had after kicking my husband out were priceless.


I haven't got to "angry" yet but i know I will. Once I do I will be able to think more clearly and do what I know needs to be done.

Pi just phoned. He lied he is not in any of the restaurants - must be having room service.

Anyway PI is going back in the morning to get a phot of them leaving. He also gave me her car number.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Here's a little list for you, Bronwen:
> 
> Confirmed PA = check
> Don't confront to early = check
> ...


Thank you very much for this list. I will work through it carefully.

I think I will be able to find OWH the PI also just gave me her car registration number.

This PI is costing me a fortune.

Would you have hired a PI?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

In your case the PI has been paying you back in dividends

Your husband can't lie or gaslight you anymore, how priceless is that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> In your case the PI has been paying you back in dividends
> 
> Your husband can't lie or gaslight you anymore, how priceless is that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I'm glad you said that because I was beginning to doubt myself


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> You have summed up the situation perfectly.
> 
> I want to calm down and take all the emotion away before I confront him. If I start to cry or shout or swear (which is what I did on DDay1 and for months afterwards) then I will lose any advantage I have and he will run rings around me - he's done it before. Also to be perfectly frank I really want to watch him squirm.


That's what I'm getting at. He's EXPECTING you to yell, scream, cry, get angry, be, plead, etc., and then take him back like you did before. If you just STAY CALM and COOL, act indifferent towards him or better yet act like you are truly DONE with him and nothing he says will change that, then, and only then is he going to come to the realization that he can't talk his way out of this one, and he'll believe you are truly gone for good this time. Only when he has that completely helpless feeling and feeling of a loss of ALL CONTROL over this, will he begin to feel the loss of you, and realize both that you mean business, and he could never do this again. You need to go the nuclear option on him this time, but do it with the cool and unshakable calmness and conviction of someone who has made their mind up. Onky when he believes it is hopeless will he feel the loss of you. The screaming and yelling obviously did not make him believe so last time. So now, take it to a whole new and different level. 

There is nothing that will give someone a "oh chit" butt puckering moment as when the one they think they're losing refuses to care enough any longer to even acknowledge them. That's when you KNOW and FEEL it is over. Snd it sucks. Make it suck for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

bronwen said:


> Thank you very much for this list. I will work through it carefully.


No worries--do what you can when you can. I just know for myself that when I get all emotional, I can not think...and a list is helpful. That's just me. 

By way of practical advice, I suggest you buy some soup and some tissues with lotion. Buy the soup because when you don't feel like eating, it's warm and nutritious and you can swallow liquid. Buy the lotion tissues because if you cry a lot and wipe your nose and eyes with non-lotion, it will chap your nose and eyelids. Then you'll have chapped eyelids and salt from the tears...and OUCH!



> I think I will be able to find OWH the PI also just gave me her car registration number. This PI is costing me a fortune. Would you have hired a PI?


*YES! * YES YES YES YES YES a thousand times yes!! The PI has proven to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that your husband is lying (if nothing else)...and probably a lot more! This PI is giving you evidence that would be good in a court of law to prove adultery and alienation of affection. In many ways, this PI probably saved and protected your financial future. 

But even if you choose to not use the PI's information in that way, this PI has confirmed for you that you were NOT nuts, that you were not just overly jealous or suspicious, that your intuition was accurate, that you can trust yourself, and that you can NOT trust your husband to look out for your best interests. 

That alone is invaluable.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donny64 said:


> That's what I'm getting at. He's EXPECTING you to yell, scream, cry, get angry, be, plead, etc., and then take him back like you did before. If you just STAY CALM and COOL, act indifferent towards him or better yet act like you are truly DONE with him and nothing he says will change that, then, and only then is he going to come to the realization that he can't talk his way out of this one, and he'll believe you are truly gone for good this time. Only when he has that completely helpless feeling and feeling of a loss of ALL CONTROL over this, will he begin to feel the loss of you, and realize both that you mean business, and he could never do this again. You need to go the nuclear option on him this time, but do it with the cool and unshakable calmness and conviction of someone who has made their mind up. Onky when he believes it is hopeless will he feel the loss of you. The screaming and yelling obviously did not make him believe so last time. So now, take it to a whole new and different level.
> 
> There is nothing that will give someone a "oh chit" butt puckering moment as when the one they think they're losing refuses to care enough any longer to even acknowledge them. That's when you KNOW and FEEL it is over. Snd it sucks. Make it suck for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I can remember a few weeks after DDay1 - he was very reluctant to talk about his EA and one day I said "the only time you will realise what you are throwing away is if I divorce you"


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> No worries--do what you can when you can. I just know for myself that when I get all emotional, I can not think...and a list is helpful. That's just me.
> 
> By way of practical advice, I suggest you buy some soup and some tissues with lotion. Buy the soup because when you don't feel like eating, it's warm and nutritious and you can swallow liquid. Buy the lotion tissues because if you cry a lot and wipe your nose and eyes with non-lotion, it will chap your nose and eyelids. Then you'll have chapped eyelids and salt from the tears...and OUCH!
> 
> ...


I am going to use PIs information - it's the only thing that will register with him and it does help to know that I am not a jealous basket case.

I am glad you think I did the right thing

Thank you


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> But even if you choose to not use the PI's information in that way, this PI has confirmed for you that you were NOT nuts, that you were not just overly jealous or suspicious, that your intuition was accurate, that you can trust yourself, and that you can NOT trust your husband to look out for your best interests.
> 
> That alone is invaluable.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

What I am learning the most through my divorce is the value of believing and trusting in yourself. It gives you more strength and confidence than anything else in the world.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> What I am learning the most through my divorce is the value of believing and trusting in yourself. It gives you more strength and confidence than anything else in the world.


Did you want a divorce or did you try R


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Girl this was money well spent, IMHO you can't put a price tag on it!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Girl this was money well spent, IMHO you can't put a price tag on it!



Thanks for that


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you got a phone number for the OWH yet?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Have you got a phone number for the OWH yet?[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes - cell phone and home number


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

For what it worth, let OWH confront his WW, then his WW tells your WH and you go dark.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

bronwen said:


> the guy said:
> 
> 
> > Have you got a phone number for the OWH yet?[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bronwen said:


> the guy said:
> 
> 
> > Have you got a phone number for the OWH yet?[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> For what it worth, let OWH confront his WW, then his WW tells your WH and you go dark.[/QUOTE
> 
> I would LOVE to do that
> 
> By the way I have just eaten a small bowl of cereal. That's progress


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Don't phone the OW to tell her that you know, pass everything to her H. She'll otherwise weasel out of it.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> bronwen said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have his email? You need to forward the stuff your PI emails you to him.
> ...


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Call OWH now....wait timing is everything, wait until WH gets home, then step out and then call OWH while you are with your WH say you call while your in the bathroom or step out to the garden and make a call.....wait a few and watch your WH cell light up.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

bronwen--I am so sorry he has put you through hell. But now you know the truth.

Spokeo.com lists relatives; my life.com does too. Spokeo works best if you know her home address. People.com also often shows people sharing the house. These are all free.

You are doing amazingly well. You will pull through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Don't phone the OW to tell her that you know, pass everything to her H. She'll otherwise try to weasel out of it.


At the moment I'd like to beat the crap out of her and my husband


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As soon as WH walks in the door excuss your self and make the call, even if you don't reach OWH, leave a maessage. then wait and see.

The one that speaks 1st loses.


Just an idea you still have some time to think about it


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> bronwen--I am so sorry he has put you through hell. But now you know the truth.
> 
> Spokeo.com lists relatives; my life.com does too. Spokeo works best if you know her home address. People.com also often shows people sharing the house. These are all free.
> 
> ...


Thank you Heart. You warned me about this a while ago. You were so right - he has deceived me for so long.

I'll find the OWs H it might take me a while but I will find him - and as much as it hurts I am glad I know the truth. I now need to take a HUGE step back from him - the pig


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Call OWH now....wait timing is everything, wait until WH gets home, then step out and then call OWH while you are with your WH say you call while your in the bathroom or step out to the garden and make a call.....wait a few and watch your WH cell light up.


That's wicked but brilliant


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Shoot....only *her* cell.......

Ok if you have a last name (hopefully it not hyphinated) then start there


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Shoot....only *her* cell.......
> 
> Ok if you have a last name (hopefully it not hyphinated) then start there


Found it!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

actually i would google her name 1st.

then the yellow pages/ phone directory


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You found OWH # ?


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> As soon as WH walks in the door excuss your self and make the call, even if you don't reach OWH, leave a maessage. then wait and see.
> 
> The one that speaks 1st loses.
> 
> ...


I will think about it seriously

"the one that speaks first loses" What does this mean?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Excellent!!!! Now get his email too! You need to send him PROOF, not just a call with no proof, or he may not believe you and will just rugsweep everything.

Email him the link to TAM CWI section too maybe


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> You found OWH # ?


Name and address and home phone number


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

the guy said:


> actually i would google her name 1st.
> 
> then the yellow pages/ phone directory


...and FB. She probably has her hubby listed on her page.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Excellent!!!! Now get his email too! You need to send him PROOF, not just a call with no proof, or he may not believe you and will just rugsweep everything.
> 
> Email him the link to TAM CWI section too maybe


I tthink I know how to get his email but it will not be easy

The poor man needs Tam as much as I do


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> ...and FB. She probably has her hubby listed on her page.


Not on FB - I've looked


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its a nigotiation tactic.

Say a proposal is made then you wait for an offer then counter offer.

In your case you already know the truth so what is there realy to say, so you wait for your WH to respond to the call from OW and see what your WH tells you or reacts to the phone call.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> Its a nigotiation tactic.
> 
> Say a proposal is made then you wait for an offer then counter offer.
> 
> ...


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You will be 2 steps ahead of your WH and when he tells you " how could you in volve the OM" then he is pointing at him self.

Or

"there is nothing going on, way did he call OWH" then you tell WH that OWH needs the truth and walk away.


Really at this point why even engage with WH until he admits and confesses.

You know the truth you have been down this road before the ball is in his court to either confess or not. But the fact that now that the A is comprimised is just another step.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Did you want a divorce or did you try R


Well my story is a bit complicated. There were affairs 5yrs ago on both of our parts. I had a ONS, he had a 9 month affair with a co-worker, even moved in with her...we eventually R'd...made rules/boundaries all that stuff since all trust was broken for both of us. Ya know, all the standard stuff you need to put in place for R. 

Anyways, now 5yrs later, I caught him in the begining of an EA - deleting chats and going to lunch wtih a female co-worker, discussing our marital problems...stuff that shouldn't be done especially with the infidelity history...so I left. 

I have a thread in the Private section if you ever care to read but you have enough going on in your life!!


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> You will be 2 steps ahead of your WH and when he tells you " how could you in volve the OM" then he is pointing at him self.
> 
> Or
> 
> ...


If I get a confession i be amazed!


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Well my story is a bit complicated. There were affairs 5yrs ago on both of our parts. I had a ONS, he had a 9 month affair with a co-worker, even moved in with her...we eventually R'd...made rules/boundaries all that stuff since all trust was broken for both of us. Ya know, all the standard stuff you need to put in place for R.
> 
> Anyways, now 5yrs later, I caught him in the begining of an EA - deleting chats and going to lunch wtih a female co-worker, discussing our marital problems...stuff that shouldn't be done especially with the infidelity history...so I left.
> 
> I have a thread in the Private section if you ever care to read but you have enough going on in your life!!


I will read your thread it will help me

I think you are doing the right thing

I can't see us surviving this and I will probably follow suit.


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Do I understand right that you have her cell number? If so, look up "spoofcard". You can call his cell and make it appear it's coming from her number. (Or call hers from his cell number). Call when he's outta the house, and when he answers what he thinks is her calling with "hey baby" you can then say something like "baby? Really? I thought she was just a coworker. This is your wife dumb azz, and your things will be on the front step when you get home". 

There is also spoof texting. 

Think of the possibilities...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donny64 said:


> Do I understand right that you have her cell number? If so, look up "spoofcard". You can call his cell and make it appear it's coming from her number. (Or call hers from his cell number). Call when he's outta the house, and when he answers what he thinks is her calling with "hey baby" you can then say something like "baby? Really? I thought she was just a coworker. This is your wife dumb azz, and your things will be on the front step when you get home".
> 
> There is also spoof texting.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that I find it really appealing - I will look it up now!


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I wouldn't waste my energy on spoof calling and stuff though. You already have the proof you need.

I still think you should email OWH and not call him, but that of course is your call. I also think you should put his stuff outside the door and change the locks.

Anyway - I am REALLY glad to see you're eating!! I bet you feel better eh? Now make sure you get a good sleep tonight and eat when you wake up too.

At some point you're also going to have to decide how much you want to know, exactly. Do you care when he started things, where they did it, how often etc? Because that could affect how you proceed. If you're done with him my guess is you don't really need to know all that stuff.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I wouldn't waste my energy on spoof calling and stuff though. You already have the proof you need.
> 
> I still think you should email OWH and not call him, but that of course is your call. I also think you should put his stuff outside the door and change the locks.
> 
> ...


I don't want all the gory details - to protect myself and my sanity

I want to know how long and why


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't get stuck on the why. Most of us never do know entirely why. Especially if you split up. Cheaters are selfish people who think they can have their cake and eat it too. There are as many answers to the why as there are cheaters.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Personally I say call OWH and offer to send proof by email


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Don't get stuck on the why. Most of us never do know entirely why. Especially if you split up. Cheaters are selfish people who think they can have their cake and eat it too. There are as many answers to the why as there are cheaters.


I'll never know why and I don't think he does either.

Only last night he was talking to me about our future together for the next couple of years.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Personally I say call OWH and offer to send proof by email


That is my intention


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I'll never know why and I don't think he does either.
> 
> Only last night he was talking to me about our future together for the next couple of years.


He knows exactly what he's doing. He's keeping his second life secret from you so that he can continue to have the best of both worlds. All you are is someone who gives him what he wants. You are meeting his Emotional Needs for stability and acceptability. SHE is meeting his Emotional Needs for Recreation and Sex.

Stop meeting his needs.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

bronwen--thinking of you and hoping you are getting a good night's rest.

As turnera implies, there is this misperception that the cheating spouse must choose, them or you. But there is a third choice--both. And that is what he will keep on choosing, just as long as you let him.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I know this is hard. But you now finally know the truth!! No more wondering, no more worrying. You are the one with the power... Don't lose that. Embrace it and have fun blowing all up in their faces


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

bronwen said:


> If I get a confession i be amazed!


Which is why 'he who speaks first loses'. The moment you engage with him you are giving, engaging. While u are dark with him you have the upper hand. Massively. Give as little as is necessary. Or give absolutely nothing and leave him floundering, panicking, that sick feeling with fear so strong in the back of his throat and the pit of the stomach...you know, the one we are all aware of when we found out our loved one was 'busy' with another.

I love the idea of calling the other woman's man just as hubby gets home. Once that happens, keep in close proximity to him. Follow him if necessary as he tries to get some privacy to talk. If she calls make him put it on speakerphone. Do not let him have private time. At all. Follow him to the bathroom! See the cornered rat looking for escape. Be prepared for unreasonable anger in order for him to escape.
....that's if he doesn't come home to all his belongings on the front step of course! I like that idea too. Tho with that one you don't get to watch him squirm. You can always do that one next time he goes away, or when he goes to work.

Having read your thread I really feel for you. So sorry it has ended like this. And reading the advice you have been given I have been given ideas too. My man is on holiday with his daughter. In Wales funnily enough...am I right in remembering you are from Wales?....I think now is the time for me to go dark also. And leave him with the fear I have felt for so long. I wish you luck that your plan goes to plan on his return. Make sure you have a think of what other possibilities may happen too. Be prepared. Have plan b at the ready. What if his reactions surprise you?

What if he left and didn't want to R himself? What if he came clean straight away? What if ultimately him and AP get together? What if he tried to throw you out of the house? What if he blatantly throws it all in your face, tells you he loves her, tells you nasty things? 

Try and think of all possibilities so that you don't get blindsided again. Or emotional when the confrontation begins. And best of luck for today on his return. Sending you positive thoughts across the airwaves.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Bronwen,

You say you have the OWH`s phone number.

Is there any reason you don`t call him now, state your situation and get his e-mail from him as you would like to send him the photos from the PI?

I would blow up the OWH before I said anything to your H.

Any reason why she shouldn`t do this folks?

It gets her the e-mail, exposes, and keeps her H off balance.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> He knows exactly what he's doing. He's keeping his second life secret from you so that he can continue to have the best of both worlds. All you are is someone who gives him what he wants. You are meeting his Emotional Needs for stability and acceptability. SHE is meeting his Emotional Needs for Recreation and Sex.
> 
> Stop meeting his needs.


It is 7.30 a.m. here in UK. I have had about an hour's sleep but strangely I feel a bit better.

He is having the best of both worlds but not after today.

I am going through my list of "things to do" and everything is becoming clearer.

I am writing down all the phone numbers and email addresses I will need and notes on what I am going to say.

He just phoned me to say he was leaving the hotel and I am waiting for a call from the PI


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> bronwen--thinking of you and hoping you are getting a good night's rest.
> 
> As turnera implies, there is this misperception that the cheating spouse must choose, them or you. But there is a third choice--both. And that is what he will keep on choosing, just as long as you let him.


He would love to have both I know. I have just spoken to him and you would think that we were the happiest couple in the world. He tells me he loves me and that I am his best friend.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Remains said:


> Which is why 'he who speaks first loses'. The moment you engage with him you are giving, engaging. While u are dark with him you have the upper hand. Massively. Give as little as is necessary. Or give absolutely nothing and leave him floundering, panicking, that sick feeling with fear so strong in the back of his throat and the pit of the stomach...you know, the one we are all aware of when we found out our loved one was 'busy' with another.
> 
> I love the idea of calling the other woman's man just as hubby gets home. Once that happens, keep in close proximity to him. Follow him if necessary as he tries to get some privacy to talk. If she calls make him put it on speakerphone. Do not let him have private time. At all. Follow him to the bathroom! See the cornered rat looking for escape. Be prepared for unreasonable anger in order for him to escape.
> ....that's if he doesn't come home to all his belongings on the front step of course! I like that idea too. Tho with that one you don't get to watch him squirm. You can always do that one next time he goes away, or when he goes to work.
> ...


I am keeping an open mind about what he will say. I am prepared to lose him. I have been going over every possibility in my head and trying to keep calm. I don't want to be with a man who doesn't want me.

He can't throw me out of the house because it is in joint ownership.

Yes I am from Wales - lovely place.

Thank you for your support and kind wishes

Bronwen


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Stay strong!!! You can do this


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Stay strong!!! You can do this


Thank you very much.

At the moment I am trying to see him as he really is not as the man I love/loved


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Aros yn gryf


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Aros yn gryf


Will try, am trying very hard

My H is a Saes so asll I can say is "Twll din pob Sais"

Waiting for photographs to down load from PI - shaking like a leaf

*ronwen*


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Can't even spell my own name now


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

Good luck Bronwyn, you have done brilliantly.

Let you into my secret, when I found out my wife was playing away, I told the OM's wife, then I got her to phone my STBX's mother and tell her :smthumbup:

owwwww im a biatch


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Good luck Bronwyn, you have done brilliantly.
> 
> Let you into my secret, when I found out my wife was playing away, I told the OM's wife, then I got her to phone my STBX's mother and tell her :smthumbup:
> 
> owwwww im a biatch


Wow! I bet that caused a thundersto


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Just received the photographs - she's nothing special.
Also got excellent report of what happened.

Also got photo of them kissing in the car park about 5 minutes before he phoned me.

Oh! my giddy aunt!!!!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Unbelievable! The way in which they can do this and do it happily is shocking.

Re him calling and saying he loves u, u are his best friend, that is the guilt. He is counteracting what he has done with love to you. Making up to you? How often does he say those things to you, in the way he just did, out of interest? 

Funny because I believe mine did something several weeks ago, month or so ago. I don't know though. Just that his behaviour changed towards me. And he was nervous for no apparent reason. Now, for the last couple of weeks I have had total loving. Told I am loved with more intensity than usual. He has told me loving things like never before. Hmmmm seems like he might be making up, without me realising what for. Your situation gives me food for thought.

When is your husband due back?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Remains said:


> Unbelievable! The way in which they can do this and do it happily is shocking.
> 
> Re him calling and saying he loves u, u are his best friend, that is the guilt. He is counteracting what he has done with love to you. Making up to you? How often does he say those things to you, in the way he just did, out of interest?
> 
> ...


He doesn't tell me that often about once or twice a month.

He has never told me the truth abouth his EA last year. I had to drag every word out of him. He has behaved weirdly throughout this whole thing - that's what made me suspicious.
I had to ask him to apologise which he did and swore he would never do anything like this again.

Your H might have seen sense at last. My H is a narcisiist so I have learned not to expect much in the way of honesty.

H is due back in about 4-5 hours.

I have printed the photo of them kissing in the car park and written her car registration number on the back.

I might give it to him tonight.

I am shaking in my shoes

Thanks for replying

Bronwen


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

Wonder what I would do??

Do you live in Birmingham?? Where does the OW live??


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

remember he will do his best to lie and gaslight his way out of this and likely get indignant/angry you spied on him


don't accept any of that crap


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Wonder what I would do??
> 
> Do you live in Birmingham?? Where does the OW live??


No, I live in Wales

The OW live near to England


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> No, I live in Wales
> 
> The OW live near to England


Driving time from yours to hers?? (if you can drive that is)


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> remember he will do his best to lie and gaslight his way out of this and likely get indignant/angry you spied on him
> 
> 
> don't accept any of that crap


I don't care if he's angry with me. I am not afraid of him. I know he will lie I'm used to that.

I will just give him the photo of them kissing in the carpark.

(I also have 3 more photographs and a written report.

Thanks for replying

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Driving time from yours to hers?? (if you can drive that is)



Yes I can drive.

She is about an hour and a half away.

I couldn't drive today though - I might hit somethinng - can't concentrate.


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Yes I can drive.
> 
> She is about an hour and a half away.
> 
> I couldn't drive today though - I might hit somethinng - can't concentrate.


Mmmmm bet I could have some fun there, timing is everything :scratchhead:

Blow it out of the water


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

confronting OW isn't the best idea anyways, the best thing to do is tell her husband


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

So if she lives so close, how is it that they met up 300 miles away? Did their company send them both on the same work commitment? Where have they been, Scotland?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Mmmmm bet I could have some fun there, timing is everything :scratchhead:
> 
> Blow it out of the water


I don't really want to get involved with her and I haven't got the strength for drama today


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> confronting OW isn't the best idea anyways, the best thing to do is tell her husband[/QUOTE
> 
> That's my plan]


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Remains said:


> So if she lives so close, how is it that they met up 300 miles away? Did their company send them both on the same work commitment? Where have they been, Scotland?


She works for the same company 300 miles away.

He said he had business meetings yesterday inn a place about half an hour from where she works and stays all week


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IIWY, I would have all his crap packed up and waiting for him when you hand him the photograph. Don't give him any opportunity to camp out at the house.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> IIWY, I would have all his crap packed up and waiting for him when you hand him the photograph. Don't give him any opportunity to camp out at the house.


I really have to confront him first.

We have beenmarried for a long time and very happily until a year ago

I owe it to myself to at least get answers to some questions because I will probably need STI tests


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I really have to confront him first.
> 
> We have beenmarried for a long time and very happily until a year ago
> 
> I owe it to myself to at least get answers to some questions because I will probably need STI tests


Regardless of his answers, you should still get tested. You obviously can't really trust anything he says about his activities.

C


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bronwen said:


> Also got photo of them kissing in the car park about 5 minutes before he phoned me.


I`m sorry Bronwen.

I think you can see now the PI was worth every penny.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Confronting him - examine what your goal is here. You know he will lie to you, so it's not to get the truth; don't expect it, you will be disappointed. If it's to feel better, you can do that while simultaneously kicking him out for what he's doing. He deserves to be kicked out, and he knows it. Anything less that you do teaches him that you are a doormat and he can now do whatever he wants; eventually he'll just start blatantly dating her in front of you because you didn't kick him out.

Or, if you don't really intend to leave him, then you need to come up with a plan for ending the affair. It typically goes like this (the most successful way to end an affair):
Gather your evidence and keep a copy of it all outside the home so he can't destroy it (he WILL look for it).
Confront him and tell him to stop the affair or leave.
When he refuses or when he agrees but you catch him in contact (don't fire the PI yet), in one afternoon or evening, you contact his parents, his siblings, his best friend(s), his pastor (if applicable), or any VIP in his life whose respect he craves. You tell them that he is cheating and ask them to let him know that they won't support this affair and they want him to stop seeing her and give the marriage a chance.
At the same time, you call OW's H and her parents, and let them know what she's doing.
Then you sit back and wait for the firestorm he'll spew at you. You'll hear all kinds of nasty things like "I was GOING to dump her and choose you but now you've ruined it" or "I'm going straight to my lawyer tomorrow" or "Everyone is laughing at you and thinks you're crazy" or "No one believes you" or "I'm going to take the kids from you and you can't stop me." 
Lots of nasty. Ignore it all. Wait him out. See if the bloom falls of the rose of the affair now that everyone knows. They'll have to give up their family/friends (hopefully you'll be supported) to stay together or they'll fight their way out of the affair. Either way, you win - if he chooses her anyway, then you don't want THAT for a husband.
Give yourself a timeline that you won't wait past, before you file for divorce, to save yourself from endless agony and to give yourself a goal. 
In the meantime, look amazing, smell great, wear new clothes, always have makeup on, go out and have fun with family and friends - let him see the fun, vivacious, beautiful woman he's giving up to schtup in back alleys.
STOP taking care of him. He can do his own laundry, cook his own food, get his own rides. Let him see what life without you is like. Let him miss you while seeing you going out and having a ball. Let him wonder if YOU are dating. Leave the kids with him while you go out. Oh, and if you catch him contacting her in YOUR house, grab his phone and throw it out in the street. Stand up for YOUR dignity! Let him see you won't take this lying down. Teach him to respect you again.

Will it work? Probably not. It's a longshot. But it's the only shot that has a chance at working. And in the meantime, it restores your self confidence and self respect, so you can move on with dignity and purpose and hope.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Try to stay calm... remember you have the power now. If you decide you just can't give up and want to give him another chance, he gets the power back, which he wants and currently think he has. If you do decide to do that anyway, take your time and think it through. If the decision is enough is enough... today is as good of a day as any . I think you are pretty amazing!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Have another cup of tea my dear. You are a strong powerful woman and can handle anything.
He will lie. When I confronted my STBXH he lied through his teeth, despite all the evidence. When I told him I read the emails and quoted some, he still said there were no emails. He never said I was crazy, just denial. He still denies everything, he's living with the OW today and still denies it! Unbelievable. 
Don't count on getting any meaningful answers from him. I mean it might happen, but just don't count on it. 
You can do this.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

PBear said:


> Regardless of his answers, you should still get tested. You obviously can't really trust anything he says about his activities.
> 
> C



I will get tested


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Have another cup of tea my dear. You are a strong powerful woman and can handle anything.
> He will lie. When I confronted my STBXH he lied through his teeth, despite all the evidence. When I told him I read the emails and quoted some, he still said there were no emails. He never said I was crazy, just denial. He still denies everything, he's living with the OW today and still denies it! Unbelievable.
> Don't count on getting any meaningful answers from him. I mean it might happen, but just don't count on it.
> You can do this.


Yes. Remember there are forum members with video or audio evidence, undeniable, *and their spouses just claimed it was doctored*. He thinks he's doing a fabulous job at snowing you, he will not abandon the one tactic that he thinks has worked so well for so long.

You may NEVER get the satisfaction of an admission out of him--brace yourself for _that_.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You seem to be a strong woman. You will get out this fine. Good luck!!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> Confronting him - examine what your goal is here. You know he will lie to you, so it's not to get the truth; don't expect it, you will be disappointed. If it's to feel better, you can do that while simultaneously kicking him out for what he's doing. He deserves to be kicked out, and he knows it. Anything less that you do teaches him that you are a doormat and he can now do whatever he wants; eventually he'll just start blatantly dating her in front of you because you didn't kick him out.
> 
> Or, if you don't really intend to leave him, then you need to come up with a plan for ending the affair. It typically goes like this (the most successful way to end an affair):
> Gather your evidence and keep a copy of it all outside the home so he can't destroy it (he WILL look for it).
> ...


Once I confront him I think it's over.

I have been thinking about what my life would be like if we stayed together aand it'd not a pretty picture

I will not wait very long before I decide to divorce him. Enough is enough 

I just cannot see a way back from this

I' going to tart myself up before he comes home

At the moment I look like a bag of washing!

Thank you for the trouble you took with this post - it is all going in to my head


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Try to stay calm... remember you have the power now. If you decide you just can't give up and want to give him another chance, he gets the power back, which he wants and currently think he has. If you do decide to do that anyway, take your time and think it through. If the decision is enough is enough... today is as good of a day as any . I think you are pretty amazing![/QUOTE
> 
> My mind changes by the second
> I do need to think this through but I am so tired and wired that I can't think straight
> ...


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Yes. Remember there are forum members with video or audio evidence, undeniable, *and their spouses just claimed it was doctored*. He thinks he's doing a fabulous job at snowing you, he will not abandon the one tactic that he thinks has worked so well for so long.
> 
> You may NEVER get the satisfaction of an admission out of him--brace yourself for _that_.


I know he'll deny it but I know with the last minute piece of sanity I have left that I have the truth.

In will try to hang on to that with my fingernails


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You seem to be a strong woman. You will get out this fine. Good luck!!


Thank you and to everyone taking the time to help me


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't have to decide everything today. All you need to do is expose the affair today.

The rest of the hard stuff can wait a few days.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

When are you going to expose to the OWH what is your plan?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You don't have to decide everything today. All you need to do is expose the affair today.
> 
> The rest of the hard stuff can wait a few days.



I am so glad you said that


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> When are you going to expose to the OWH what is your plan?


I don't know.

I think if I confront him tonight I need to give myself time to absorb whatever happens

I think he will sneak off sometime this evening and warn her that I have found out - but that's ok - I don't really care- it might even motivate her into telling her husband herself and even ifn she lies I have a lot of evidence including a phone bill with only her number on from last year


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why you tell OW's H at the same time you confront your H.

Have you been to your doctor?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Have another cup of tea my dear. You are a strong powerful woman and can handle anything.
> He will lie. When I confronted my STBXH he lied through his teeth, despite all the evidence. When I told him I read the emails and quoted some, he still said there were no emails. He never said I was crazy, just denial. He still denies everything, he's living with the OW today and still denies it! Unbelievable.
> Don't count on getting any meaningful answers from him. I mean it might happen, but just don't count on it.
> You can do this.


I don't expect the truth but it will help my anxiety emormously just to say what's in my head - just get the words out.

I feel as weak as a kitten but i have to bite on the bullet and just do it


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> That's why you tell OW's H at the same time you confront your H.
> 
> Have you been to your doctor?



I'll go the the doctor tomorrow - I think I need ADs or something and an STI test


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what's your line of thinking on why you are exposing to OWH after the confrontation?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

*I could murder a glass of wine right now*

Bronwen


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> what's your line of thinking on why you are exposing to OWH after the confrontation?


I don't have an email address for theOWH but I have their home phone number so I think I'll use that


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You need to expose to OWH before or during confrontation with your WH...

If you give WH ANY time to talk to OW, they will come up with such a convincing story...and if OWH is a doormat, it may be enough to have him not even talk to you when you try to contact him for exposure.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You really should expose the OW to her H at the same time you confront your husband.
I'd call him now and get his e-mail while your H is on the road
Gives them less time to cover their asses
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> what's your line of thinking on why you are exposing to OWH after the confrontation?



I'm sorry I didn't read your post properly.

My line of thinking now is confused, why expose now if we are to divorce. I honestly don't know apart from exposing my husband to the consequences of his actions


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Also after you confront your H there may be too much drama going down to give you time to expose OW
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I'm sorry I didn't read your post properly.
> 
> My line of thinking now is confused, why expose now if we are to divorce. I honestly don't know apart from exposing my husband to the consequences of his actions


Because the other BS deserves to know who they're married to. It's understandable to feel confused about everything now, but please don't leave another victim in the dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> You need to expose to OWH before or during confrontation with your WH...
> 
> If you give WH ANY time to talk to OW, they will come up with such a convincing story...and if OWH is a doormat, it may be enough to have him not even talk to you when you try to contact him for exposure.


I don't have a contact number or email for the OWH only the home phone number.

I can only take this one step at a time


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

WhereAmI said:


> Because the other BS deserves to know who they're married to. It's understandable to feel confused about everything now, but please don't leave another victim in the dark.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is not my intention but i do feel completely overwhelmed by the whole thing and I need to keep calm just to do the confronting tonight


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I'm sorry I didn't read your post properly.
> 
> My line of thinking now is confused, why expose now if we are to divorce. I honestly don't know apart from exposing my husband to the consequences of his actions


Her husband has the right to know he's living a lie.

Also it will keep your husband from having a soft place to land after you confront him.
You know he'll go running to her for comfort.
Take that support away from him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Understand, bronwen. But yes, OWH deserves to know whats going on too.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Also after you confront your H there may be too much drama going down to give you time to expose OW
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I think you are absolutely right


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Understand, bronwen. But yes, OWH deserves to know whats going on too.



Of course he does - there are many things he needs to know some of which my H hasn't realised yet


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Her husband has the right to know he's living a lie.
> 
> Also it will keep your husband from having a soft place to land after you confront him.
> You know he'll go running to her for comfort.
> ...


There's only one place i want him to land - on his a*** and all on his own


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Thank you and to everyone taking the time to help me


I will be here to send out encouragement as long as you are!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I will be here to send out encouragement as long as you are!


You are keeping me sane at the moment. and thank you


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bronwen, there are alot of people here who really do care about helping you.

Going through the pain of infidelity, its just something I know I personally wouldn't wish on anyone, not even my worst enemy...all that hurt and betrayal. And I'm sure there are others who feel the same way I do. So helping people in THEIR time of need is the least I can do b/c I know how important it is to be able to talk about this stuff with people who understand where you are coming from. 

Stay strong.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I'm sorry I didn't read your post properly.
> 
> My line of thinking now is confused, why expose now if we are to divorce. I honestly don't know apart from exposing my husband to the consequences of his actions



1) He deserves to know, plain and simple- you are not destroying their marriage, your husband and OW already did that. If her husband knew and told you, you would be grateful 

2) He may know more than you, if he already knows- info is power

3) Destroying the affair is still needed imo, you don't know where your head will be in a week, in a month etc, getting this out in the open helps put the kibosh on the affair


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

Bronwen

You dont know anything about the otherside of things for example, I called the OM's wife when I found out, she said something like

"Oh I knew something was going on he moved out last month"

Then proceeded to ask me questions about my Mrs, so she was already at least 10 steps ahead of me, I thought I was going to phone up and break her and her families heart.

I just knew I had to tell her, best all round, but she knew more than me.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I know this has to be one of or the hardest thing you have ever done in your life. Just confronting you WH is overwelming enough. I hope we all here are helping more and not stressing you out further. 

Most here have seen this play out before and know the importance of letting the OWH know before the AP's. It will help you heal and cause your pain not to linger. We all just want you not to hurt anymore. The OWH knowing before can really help cause the A to finally die completely. Plus it makes it nearly impossible for both of them to weisel out of this. 

take deep breath and don't get overwelmed.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> bronwen, there are alot of people here who really do care about helping you.
> 
> Going through the pain of infidelity, its just something I know I personally wouldn't wish on anyone, not even my worst enemy...all that hurt and betrayal. And I'm sure there are others who feel the same way I do. So helping people in THEIR time of need is the least I can do b/c I know how important it is to be able to talk about this stuff with people who understand where you are coming from.
> 
> Stay strong.


Thank you you are a gem


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I know this has to be one of or the hardest thing you have ever done in your life.  Just confronting you WH is overwelming enough. I hope we all here are helping more and not stressing you out further.
> 
> Most here have seen this play out before and know the importance of letting the OWH know before the AP's. It will help you heal and cause your pain not to linger. We all just want you not to hurt anymore. The OWH knowing before can really help cause the A to finally die completely. Plus it makes it nearly impossible for both of them to weisel out of this.
> 
> take deep breath and don't get overwelmed.


This is the hardest thing I have ever done. I lost my mum when I was twelve/thirteen and this is worse.

Thank you for your support 
You are not stressing me I am just a bit of a mess


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

When I called OMW she thanked me at length. She of course was suspicious but had no proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I know this has to be one of or the hardest thing you have ever done in your life. Just confronting you WH is overwelming enough. I hope we all here are helping more and not stressing you out further.
> 
> Most here have seen this play out before and know the importance of letting the OWH know before the AP's. It will help you heal and cause your pain not to linger. We all just want you not to hurt anymore. The OWH knowing before can really help cause the A to finally die completely. Plus it makes it nearly impossible for both of them to weisel out of this.
> 
> take deep breath and don't get overwelmed.


This is the hardest thing I have ever done = but not as bad as Dday1 - I don't know why. I lost my mum when I was 12/13 and I'm ashamed to say that this is worse.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Bronwen
> 
> You dont know anything about the otherside of things for example, I called the OM's wife when I found out, she said something like
> 
> ...


All betrayed spouses deserve to know


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

slater said:


> When I called OMW she thanked me at length. She of course was suspicious but had no proof.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't think of this, perhaps he is suspicious


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Bronwen
> 
> You dont know anything about the otherside of things for example, I called the OM's wife when I found out, she said something like
> 
> ...


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Can I/should I have a glass of wine tonight?


Bronwen


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No. You should go ride a bike or jog or play tennis with a friend. No alcohol!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> 1) He deserves to know, plain and simple- you are not destroying their marriage, your husband and OW already did that. If her husband knew and told you, you would be grateful
> 
> 2) He may know more than you, if he already knows- info is power
> 
> 3) Destroying the affair is still needed imo, you don't know where your head will be in a week, in a month etc, getting this out in the open helps put the kibosh on the affair


The word "grateful" stands out in this post. I know I would have been very grateful if somone had told me months ago instead of going through the torture of knowing somethings up.

I feel frozen to the spot at present but once I start to talk I hope I'll calm down

Thank you


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

You are doing great Bronwen!

But I can tell that you are undecided about Divorce or Reconciliation. You had a long marriage and it is difficult to walk away.

You need to be strong. You need to ensure your husband knows that this is not tolerated. You can't let him just apologize and then reconcile. Whether you reconcile or divorce, he needs to be gone. I say, pack his bags, give him the photograph and show him the door. It will be hard to do, but it is the only way to save your marriage. 

You don't want him getting off with an apology, some crying and forgiveness. It will take a month or more of him being away, showing remorse and fighting to get you back. Make sure you are strong and end things. If you don't, and you reconcile without him feeling the pain, he will most surely cheat again.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> No. You should go ride a bike or jog or play tennis with a friend. No alcohol!


I am 64 years old and have had no sleep! I don't think I should be anywhere near the general public!

Not even one glass?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> You are doing great Bronwen!
> 
> But I can tell that you are undecided about Divorce or Reconciliation. You had a long marriage and it is difficult to walk away.
> 
> ...


I am undecided but he behaved so badly after DDay1 and was so cruel, he actually laughed at my pain. I have not forgotten that and there is no way he will ever hurt me like that again.

An apology is no good to me. Crying won't work either and I don't think I will ever forgive him. Ifnhe was unhappy why didn't he say. He never once came to me and said "I.m not happy with you" so I have never been given the opportunity to fix a marriage I didn't know was broken


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bronwen said:


> I am 64 years old and have had no sleep! I don't think I should be anywhere near the general public!
> 
> Not even one glass?


When your confrontation is over and you can be assured your H won't be around you can have 2.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> I am undecided but he behaved so badly after DDay1 and was so cruel, he actually laughed at my pain. I have not forgotten that and there is no way he will ever hurt me like that again.
> 
> An apology is no good to me. Crying won't work either and I don't think I will ever forgive him. Ifnhe was unhappy why didn't he say. He never once came to me and said "I.m not happy with you" so I have never been given the opportunity to fix a marriage I didn't know was broken


Honest people talk to you, cheaters and liars cake eat.

P.S I too would have a glass or two


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

How about this for an opening sentence.

I will say "you look tired"
He wil say "I am very tired"

I will say "Well that what happens when you've been sh*****g XXXXXXX all night"

I do


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

tacoma said:


> When your confrontation is over and you can be assured your H won't be around you can have 2.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Honest people talk to you, cheaters and liars cake eat.
> 
> P.S I too would have a glass or two


I think I will have to so that I stop shaking


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I am 64 years old and have had no sleep! I don't think I should be anywhere near the general public!
> 
> Not even one glass?


Take a Nyquil or a Benadryl.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Here is what I think you should do ...

1) Call the OWH and expose. Get his email and send him proof.
2) Pack a bunch of his things in a suitcase and place it outside.
3) Write him a short note telling him it is over and that you never want to look at him again. Tell him that you will call the police if he doesn't leave.
4) Attach the note and the picture you have to his suitcase outside.
5) Lock the doors and go dark. 
6) Go to the bank and open your own accounts, removing any money from joint accounts (at least your share). Get your name off or close (if possible) anything that has both your name on them.
7) See an lawyer about divorce.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I think I will have to so that I stop shaking


 It's a slippery slope for someone in your condition. Ask your doctor tomorrow.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Will someone please tell me what they think of the opening sentence I have posted

I am running out of time - he'll be home soon

It is no: 324


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> Take a Nyquil or a Benadryl.



I have Benadryl in the cupboard 

Thanks for that


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## ltj7708 (Mar 7, 2012)

I like your opening. Make sure to look him straight in the eyes when you say it. Also do not let the sleaze touch you or kiss you when he first arrives...


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

ltj7708 said:


> I like your opening. Make sure to look him straight in the eyes when you say it. Also do not let the sleaze touch you or kiss you when he first arrives...


Good I am glad you think it is OK

The thought of him breathing the same air as me makes me feel sick


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

I dont think there is a right or wrong way, but I will be on later for some support, its nearly home time for me too.

Good luck, my thoughts are with you


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would line up a friend who you can go see after you see him.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> I dont think there is a right or wrong way, but I will be on later for some support, its nearly home time for me too.
> 
> Good luck, my thoughts are with you


Thank you


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think if you are strong enough to face him and can remain strong, then your opening line is great. 

Thinking of you and wishing you the best. Good Luck!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would hand him a photo and say 'you have 10 minutes to come clean and give me a reason not to kick you out. Starting now.'


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Your line is perfect.
Stand your ground with his actions and lies after you say it. You know what he's been up to. You know you deserve better. You know.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would hand him a photo and say 'you have 10 minutes to come clean and give me a reason not to kick you out. Starting now.'


I like this, straightforward and to the bone. No crap. No need to smile, joke, sarcasm or anything.

Except I would make it 2 minutes.

Be there with you in spirit.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would line up a friend who you can go see after you see him.


No-one around today. My daughter is within walking distance but there are three youngish children there so it puts me off going there.

Also my daughter has no idea about what's happened and I would prefer to tell her on her own. She will be heartbroken


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

cpacan said:


> I like this, straightforward and to the bone. No crap. No need to smile, joke, sarcasm or anything.
> 
> Except I would make it 2 minutes.
> 
> Be there with you in spirit.


Like this very much


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think if you are strong enough to face him and can remain strong, then your opening line is great.
> 
> Thinking of you and wishing you the best. Good Luck!


thank you for the thumbs up - gives me confidence


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Your line is perfect.
> Stand your ground with his actions and lies after you say it. You know what he's been up to. You know you deserve better. You know.



thank you Pluto. I needed someone to tell me that because I don't know if I'm on my head or my a***.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Call the home phone right now! Your right its going to be an emotional hell so get it over with. If you have to leave a message to OWH and tellhim you have proof and that you are about to confront your WH.

It might be good practice to talk to OWH it might prepare you saying ot out load before you confront WH.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

I just started following your thread a couple of days ago. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you, and wishing you the best of luck with the confrontation. Stay strong, you've gotten this far, you can do this!!


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## ltj7708 (Mar 7, 2012)

the guy said:


> Call the home phone right now! Your right its going to be an emotional hell so get it over with. If you have to leave a message to OWH and tellhim you have proof and that you are about to confront your WH.
> 
> It might be good practice to talk to OWH it might prepare you saying ot out load before you confront WH.


I agree with this. If you have time, call their home phone and hope he answers.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hell when your H comes home , be on the phone with OWH.

What ever you deside please contact OWH soon. Whats good about calling the the OW home now is you have a better chance of getting thru, once the OW is home the message could get intercepted.

Keep it short and just say your wife is sleeping with my H and heres my number.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Your opening line is good. Keep dark, though, on how much you know or how you found out. You just know.

He will deny, deny, deny. At that point, you hit him with the photo and other evidence. 

Wishinhg you well.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Remember, you have your 2 questions, and leave it at that, the rest of the talking is up to him. Don't throw to much info out there.

Stay calm and wait for him to speak, what ever her says you will be prepared, you've had 24 hours to get it together, he will be the one blindsided.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

MarriedTex said:


> Your opening line is good. Keep dark, though, on how much you know or how you found out. You just know.
> 
> He will deny, deny, deny. At that point, you hit him with the photo and other evidence.
> 
> Wishinhg you well.





the guy said:


> Remember, you have your 2 questions, and leave it at that, the rest of the talking is up to him. Don't throw to much info out there.
> 
> Stay calm and wait for him to speak, what ever her says you will be prepared, you've had 24 hours to get it together, he will be the one blindsided.


:iagree::iagree:

Don't spill the beans on how you got the info!! And just let him talk his way further into the mess...

Like another poster said - you know. And you know you deserve better.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I just started following your thread a couple of days ago. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you, and wishing you the best of luck with the confrontation. Stay strong, you've gotten this far, you can do this!!


Thank you


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you so very much to everyone who has helped me today. 

I am signing off now he''l be home in 20 minutes

Talk to you all tomorrow or later tonight.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

OMG good luck...so nervous for you


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Forgot to tell her to have a VAR on her.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Forgot to tell her to have a VAR on her.


ouch

me too

hopefully it isn't needed


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

OMG, no one has mentioned a VAR...seems to be a first


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Unless she already had one there wasn`t time to get one anyway.

Just in case she pokes her head in here prior to the confrontation many cell phones have recording capabilities and if hers does she should use it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> Forgot to tell her to have a VAR on her.


I can't believe that, there are a handleful of vets and I'm one of them and we dropped the ball.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> OMG good luck...so nervous for you


So am I. Very actually.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Well this is what happened

I asked him why he looked tired. He said he'd been busy. I then said that's what becomes of s******* XXXXXXXX all night

He looked at me as if I was mad and then he told me I was mad.
I said I know you are lying and I know you were with her yesterday and all last night.

I had about half an hour of deny deny deny which you all warned me about

I just kept repeating "tell me the truth or leave now"

I then showed him photograph and kept silent.

He looked absolutely stunned.

He said "I am not having an affair with her and I did not spend the night with her.

I said "why did you kiss her in the car park"

He said "it was a peck on the cheek (looking at the photo - their bodies are apart) it was goodbye and I will never see her again"

I said "not good enough - if that is true why were you kissing a person who, with your help has destroyed our marriage. You shouldn't have been within spitting distance of her"

"I didn't tell you she would be in the same hotel because I knew you would go mad. But it was all about business and it is the last time I will ever have any contact because she is not involved in my work any more and she is moving to a job near to her home.

There were 5 colleagues staying there - she was only one of them

We all had dinner together and that is all

He then went out to his car and brought me all the receipts from the hotel and the meal and they all checked out. There were 5 people for dinner so I don's know why he PI didn't see him in the restaurant. He did say it was a very big spread out place. 

I said "if that is the case why didn't you tell me the truth about her staying in the same place."

He said "because I am a coward"

Anyway after this I said "I can't and won't live like this anymore I want you to leave now"

He said "well I am not leaving I love you, I am not interested in her or any other woman and I have never had sex with anyone but you in all our marriage. " I want us to stay together"

The only thing I have done wrong is getting involved in the stupid text messages a year ago - it's the biggest mistake I have ever made and I am sorry"

I said "suit yourself, don't leave - I'm divorcing you anyway"

I am sure I have left some bits out. I'll remember them later and post them.

I then went to bed and actuaslly slept untill 6.00 a.m.'
I feel much better today.

I saw him this morning and he tried to hug me 
I pushed him away and said "stay away from me" 
He then just hovered around me until he left an hour later.
I ignored him

Before he left he said "I promise from now on I will tell you about any contact I have with her although there shouldn't be any and you can have access to anything you want"

I said "too late - you tried to tell me I was mad last night when I confronted you and I know if I had not had that photograph you would have continued to deny and make me feel like a nutjob"

That was the only conversation today.

If I remember anything else I will post it later.

Without your backing yesterday I know I would have floundered last night and probably given in.

Thank you all for giving me the confidence to stick to my guns.

PS When I gave him the photograph he realised straight away that I had used a PI


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You did really well. If he did not cheat, why would he lie and deny for half an hour.


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## donkler (May 21, 2012)

Very well done indeed.

I was wondering how you got on last night.

Can the PI shed any light on the 5 people, because I know if I were you I would start doubting myself. 5 is a crowd.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

What did he have to say about them being in the same hotel room?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You did really well. If he did not cheat, why would he lie and deny for half an hour.




Because he has always had great difficulty dealing with any percieved wrongdoings on his part - even little ones.

Goes back to when he was little - he used to get beaten for the smallest mistake.

While I was talking to him last night I had all your names in my head - that helped me not collapse under the strain


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Very well done indeed.
> 
> I was wondering how you got on last night.
> 
> Can the PI shed any light on the 5 people, because I know if I were you I would start doubting myself. 5 is a crowd.


I am going to speak to the PI today.

He did say that it was a very big spread out place and had had difficulty finding him or the restaurant.

Thanks for the thoughts and the help


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> What did he have to say about them being in the same hotel room?


He says they were not and the PI didn't see them either 
He only saw them at the desk and took a hpoto


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And remember, he could have said it was lunch with coworkers but he lied about that too.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And remember, he could have said it was lunch with coworkers but he lied about that too.



It was dinner - he wasn't there at lunchtime

I hate the person I've become since all this started.

I have never checked up on him in all our time together until last year.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donkler said:


> Very well done indeed.
> 
> I was wondering how you got on last night.
> 
> Can the PI shed any light on the 5 people, because I know if I were you I would start doubting myself. 5 is a crowd.


I know my H pretty well by now and I cannot ever imagine him taking a chance of being caught with any woman in the presence of colleagues. 

He loves his job and takes it very seriously and I can't really imagine him taking this kind of risk which would certainly lose him his job and reputation.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Blimey! Well done you for getting through it...and it is a good job that you didn't follow everyone's advice and call the OW husband before confronting. However, did you ask him about the secret phone? This is where it all started, and how you first became suspicious.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

While it may not seem like it now, you are doing ok . Without discussing D or commiting to stay with your husband have him in your presence tell your daughter of his affair. He must not water it down , the words affair and adultery are direct admissions words and he should use at least one. He can assist in finding out where the OW lives, hand writes a no contact letter , in this instance he can include those words , and it is posted to her , a copy is sent to her husband first using Fedex or DHL .

Take your time making big decisions, work on yourself and when ready decide. Regardless of your decision have your husband do everything to evidence his willingness to remain married to you, telling your daughter, his parents and siblings, outing the OW to her husband and as most waywards are pathological liars undergo a polygraph. Him doing all this does not determine that you will remain wih him , that choice is yours as your future happiness depends on what you want .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

There is a no contact template in the link above and pointers on exposure. Exposure to the OWH is a must to ensure the affair is revealed for what is is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Remains said:


> Blimey! Well done you for getting through it...and it is a good job that you didn't follow everyone's advice and call the OW husband before confronting. However, did you ask him about the secret phone? This is where it all started, and how you first became suspicious.


He doesn't have a secret phone.

A few weeks ago I found an email address I thought was his. I tried to change the password and found last 4 digits of a phone number which wasn't ours

So I tried sending an email but when I ran the cursor over the contact details it showed a man's face and it was certainly not my H.

His actions over the last year have turned me into a paranoid idiot.

Yes I am very glad I didn't phone the OWH - I'd be locked up by now I think!


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bronwen said:


> Yes I am very glad I didn't phone the OWH - I'd be locked up by now I think!


??? why?


this man needs to see the proof for himself


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

You did great!!! 

Take ur time. Your H needs to see there is consequences for being dishonest. 

Wine time!!


----------



## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

I guess I'm confused. Even with photographic evidence of them being in the same car and kissing, he has managed to convince you he was not having an affair? Not having an affair with the same woman with whom he previously had an affair and was supposed to be NC with?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Bronwen, I'm so proud of you. I can only imagine how hard the confrontation was. You stuck to your guns.
You are not crazy. You did not over-react.
Do not listen to his lies. Do not run them through your head as remote possibilities. Do not tell yourself, he wouldn't risk his job. Why not, he was clearly willing to risk his marriage.
Of course, he was admitting to a kiss on the cheek, because you had a picture of a kiss on the cheek. He is lying. I fear the only way he would admit to having sex with OW is if you actually had a picture of that too!
As Bishop said. Wine time!


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bronwen,

Have you thought about asking him to go take a good old polygraph about what he did/didn't do up there.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm also trying to understand--if I get a post of yours correctly, bronwen, the very title of this thread isn't accurate now? He never had a secret phone, you just thought that he did?


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> I guess I'm confused. Even with photographic evidence of them being in the same car and kissing, he has managed to convince you he was not having an affair? Not having an affair with the same woman with whom he previously had an affair and was supposed to be NC with?


They werent in the same car. The were standing in the car park not physically in contact and he says he gave her a peck on the cheek - photo shows this.

He has not convinced me of anything. Long way to go yet. 



Even if there is a possibility he is telling the truth it is still wholly inappropriate


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I'm also trying to understand--if I get a post of yours correctly, bronwen, the very title of this thread isn't accurate now? He never had a secret phone, you just thought that he did?[/QUOTE
> 
> No he didn't but when I came across an email address that looked as if it was his I just reacted. All the lying by ommission on his part has made me really paranoid and I will never trust him again


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Just being in contact with the same OW is inappropriate. Period.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Bronwen,
> 
> Have you thought about asking him to go take a good old polygraph about what he did/didn't do up there.


Yes I asked him and he said he would.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Just being in contact with the same OW is inappropriate. Period.


Yes it is he should be nowhere near her . I have really had enough of being treated like a fool.


----------



## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Bronwen, I'm so proud of you. I can only imagine how hard the confrontation was. You stuck to your guns.
> You are not crazy. You did not over-react.
> Do not listen to his lies. Do not run them through your head as remote possibilities. Do not tell yourself, he wouldn't risk his job. Why not, he was clearly willing to risk his marriage.
> Of course, he was admitting to a kiss on the cheek, because you had a picture of a kiss on the cheek. He is lying. I fear the only way he would admit to having sex with OW is if you actually had a picture of that too!
> ...


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Sorry that you are going through this Bronwen.


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

bronwen said:


> They werent in the same car. The were standing in the car park not physically in contact and he says he gave her a peck on the cheek - photo shows this.
> 
> He has not convinced me of anything. Long way to go yet.
> 
> ...


I fear (hope?) he may....may be telling you the truth. I fear it because while there may have been inappropriate contact before and now, and it may not be harmless, I'm beginning to have some doubt (some, not a lot) if this was a physical affair.

What's terrible about this is...when someone lies to us about the "small things", or "white lies" to cover up to them seems a minor thing, we then wonder why they lied at all. It's the old "if there is no reason to lie, then why lie" and "if they're lying, they must be covering something up" thing. Those are natural conclusions to come to. But they're sometimes the wrong conclusions.

So, as I said in an earlier post, I was hoping the PI would give you concrete evidence of an affair (if there was one), and in abesence of that, your husband may have the "out" of telling you "it was nothing, but I didn't want to tell you because I knew you'd freak out". Now you're again in a position of having to wonder if he's telling you the truth at this juncture or not.

I'd say this looks HIGHLY suspect, but is not the damning PROOF of an affair you were looking for.

I do think you need to continue on as you are. Hold his balls to the fire for a good long time. These lies ARE NOT OKAY, and he must realize the appearance it gives, and how that impacts you.

Keep the heat up. Unless I'm missing something, you have no evidence as of yet of a physical affair. BUT, you need to keep the heat up because of the lies, AND you need to know what happened so you can put your mind at ease and make good, solid, informed decisions. Give it a couple days, keep up with the "Stay away from me treatment", and if he is still denying, it is time for his lying azz to get hooked up to a polygraph. I don't typically agree with them, but in this instance, I think I do. I think the fear of the polygraph will get you to the truth (I don't believe polygraphs themselves are accurate enough despite what the polygraph supporters here say....I've observed too many of them). 

Do not accept it when he tries to put it back on you that you "don't trust him", or any of that nonsense. HE LIED.....about an IMPORTANT issue. It may have been a "white lie", but gives the justified appearance to you of so much more. He must now deal with the consequences of that (lack of trust and need to demonstrate it was nothing more than a white lie). If he is in fact "innocent", he needs to accept responsiblility for his lies, and be willing to go the extra mile to demonstrate that while he screwed up with the lies, that nothing major happened on this trip.

Good luck.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Sorry that you are going through this Bronwen.


Thank you Sara


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

donny64 said:


> I fear (hope?) he may....may be telling you the truth. I fear it because while there may have been inappropriate contact before and now, and it may not be harmless, I'm beginning to have some doubt (some, not a lot) if this was a physical affair.
> 
> What's terrible about this is...when someone lies to us about the "small things", or "white lies" to cover up to them seems a minor thing, we then wonder why they lied at all. It's the old "if there is no reason to lie, then why lie" and "if they're lying, they must be covering something up" thing. Those are natural conclusions to come to. But they're sometimes the wrong conclusions.
> 
> ...


What you say makes sense. I just don't know where I am with him and my first reaction is not to believe a word he says. 

He avoids conflict and tends to lie by ommision which is still a big lie. I am staying out of his way for now trying to gather my thoughts. His behaviour is turning me into a mad woman so I have stepped away from him. He needs to grow up.

Thanks for replying


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If some one had a picture of my wife giving/recieving a peck, I would want to know. 

You need an extra set of eyes on this and it could be benificial, but at this point the comms between your WH and OW have happend and there stories will match.

In hindsite, it would have been nice to have the OW admit to her H while your WH denies....but that bridge is crossed.

Stay strong your WH hasn't done a damb thing to affair proof the marriage since d-day #1.... Stay the course and get that polygraph scheduled ASAP. Who knows he could be calling your bluff, it's been said that "it" all comes out at the front door of the polygraph office.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Given your situation, I think it makes sense to purse the poloygraph. Underscore how terrible it is that your marriage has come to that. Emphasize that polygraph will not exonerate him from his inapproapriate behavior. 

Only promise him that it would be the first step to earning a "chance" to reconcile. I would still be very skeptical. But maybe this polygraph gives you peace of mind in finally pulling the plug on a cheater. Money well spent.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

The PI said he overheard the phone convo between your H and the OW (after you hung up). Can he offer specifics as to what they were speaking about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

bronwen said:


> Yes it is he should be nowhere near her . I have really had enough of being treated like a fool.


True.

He just thought that being 300 miles away he was safe. If he cares about his marriage he should act as if you were always there.

Actually, he should not do anything inapropiate no matter where you were


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Feel horrible today.

I woke up this morning at about six o'clock and for about 30 seconds remembered nothing about the last few days when suddenly it all came rushing back. Nasty feeling.

All quiet here now. He seems to have renewed respect for me since he realised I had him followed. He is scared to death.

All that has happened has changed me so much. I can feel my heart hardening towards him and I honestly feel that I don't care anymore.

I haven't even cried this time can't seem to feel it.

I have to give my mind a rest today because my brain is overloaded

Thank you to eveeryone for the help and kinds words.

Bronwen


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Go meet a doctor if you can.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Go meet a doctor if you can.




I have an appointment on Monday


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Meanwhile, bear this in mind:

When a Disloyal Spouse really has gone NO Contact with their AP and it being honest, they...


would not meet with the AP in the same room at all
would not attend a work event 300 miles away with the AP
would not be alone with the AP in the car parking lot
would not give any kind of physical endearment
would not give even a goodbye peck
would not stay in the same hotel as the AP
would not keep all of this hidden from you
would not deny it if they were asked 
would not try to claim you are nuts for being suspicious

I could go on and on. Even if you pretend/assume that all that he says is true, it's not only inappropriate, based upon the past history of having had a full blown affair with that woman, it is infidelity all over again. Here's why: fidelity is giving 100% of your AFFECTION and LOYALTY to your spouse and ONLY your spouse. 

A Disloyal spouse who was honestly ending their affair would:


possibly quit that job for the good of the marriage (yes, I realize that is very hard in this economy but the marriage CAN and WILL survive low finance--it will not survive continued adultery!)
upon hearing the AP would attend the same conference, go to the boss and say "I can not go to that one"
upon hearing the AP would attend the same conference, go to their spouse and say "I can not go"
upon entering a room where they did not realize the AP would be in attendance, would turn RIGHT AROUND and leave that room!
upon entering a room where they did not realize the AP would be in attendance, would immediately call their spouse and say "I just walked into the restaurant and AP was there--what should we do?"
if the AP came up to them and tried to talk to them, would RUN AWAY!!
if the AP tried to be alone with them anywhere, would RUN, leave that hotel, and immediately get the heck home! 
if the AP tried to hug or kiss or touch, would RUN AWAY and then tell their spouse and the AP's spouse
upon hearing that the AP was also staying in that hotel (if it was a surprise and they hadn't previously known it) would immediately end their stay, call their spouse, see if they could get a room at another nearby hotel maybe
would be in regular communication with their spouse during the trip, tell them THE TRUTH about where they were, what they were doing, and who they were doing it with.
if the spouse *did* catch them, would admit what they did and tell every little detail
if the spouse *did* catch them, would take responsibility for what they did!

bronwen (and folks reading along) even if he did tell the truth and is telling the truth, can you see the difference between how a truly repentant Disloyal Spouse acts, and how he continued in his hiding, secrets, deceit and unfaithfulness? Sure he told the truth--he traveled 300 miles to meet his Affair Partner at a work event they should not be alone at, spent time with her while not telling bronwen and deliberately lying to her, had dinner and private conversation with his Affair Partner, and kissed her "goodbye" alone in the parking lot. Even if that is absolutely 100% true--I can see why bronwen's choice is to divorce him for unfaithfulness.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Agree. Bronwen, you are not crazy for kicking him out.
This will continue over and over.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Update?


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> Update?


I have felt quite ill since I last posted. I have been given ant-anxiety meds which helped me to sleep and today I fee la little bette rtoday

It is still very quiet around here. I am in 180 mode.

The fact that he lies to me so easily has really shaken me to the core. I am now working on taking all the emotion out of the issue. I need to be mentally stable as I have some very important life changing decisions to make.

With every day that passes I seem to be coming back into the real world. Before I knew the truth or at least some of it I seemed to be in a dream world where nothing looked real. I am slowly getting back to the real world but I needed to take time away from the problem as I could feel myself going under.

He is now giving me everything I asked for - total transparency including polygraph. I think it might be a day late and a dollar short. I am not sure if I even care anymore. I know I can't/won't take another blow like this but the chances of it happening????

I can walk away from him knowing I have done everything I can to make it work, but first I have to stop caring because there is still a little love left in my heart for him.

I am almost at the end of my tether but the survivor in me tells me I need to look at things in a cold logical manner. I am beginning to do this now and I feel more in control of my feelings

I am not sure this makes sense but these are my thoughts at the moment.

Thank you for asking 

Bronwen


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He already took the polygraph? What questions did you ask him? (you get to choose the questions)

Remember, you can love a sick person but still know that being with them is not healthy for either of you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, now that you're feeling better, I have a job for you. Pick something you have always wanted to do, and figure out how to get started. Take a photography class at the junior college, sign up for cooking class, whatever. You need to do something positive and progressive, for YOU.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

bronwen said:


> I have felt quite ill since I last posted. I have been given ant-anxiety meds which helped me to sleep and today I fee la little bette rtoday
> 
> It is still very quiet around here. I am in 180 mode.
> 
> ...


I am guessing he offered to do the polygraph. Not that he has actually done it.

I think he is bluffing. Schedule a polygraph. Tell him when it is. My feeling is that sometime before the polygraph (maybe not until you are on the way there) he will come clean about some of his actions.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> He already took the polygraph? What questions did you ask him? (you get to choose the questions)
> 
> Remember, you can love a sick person but still know that being with them is not healthy for either of you.


Polygraph showed he was telling the truth. Questions were

Have you ever had sex with another woman since your marriage
Have you ever touched a woman inappropriately -etc etc.

He was telling the truth but I can't get to grips with the fact that he lied to my face and told me I was mad. This is not a healthy place for me now. A marriage will not survive without trust and there is no trust left in mine. He sold it so cheaply


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> Ok, now that you're feeling better, I have a job for you. Pick something you have always wanted to do, and figure out how to get started. Take a photography class at the junior college, sign up for cooking class, whatever. You need to do something positive and progressive, for YOU.


Just bought a new camera. Taking a course beginning next week.

Thank you for this


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Meanwhile, bear this in mind:
> 
> When a Disloyal Spouse really has gone NO Contact with their AP and it being honest, they...
> 
> ...


All of the above hits home.

I doubt very much that he can do any of it.
At the moment he is jumping through hoops, but he's done this before and it is always short lived.

I don't think he has the strength of character to maintain this stance. He is nothing like the person I married. I see small glimpses of that person and it makes me feel so sad.

He has wiped out 30 years of knowing each other and 25 years of marriage for sweet BA and I still don't think he really gets it.

Bronwen


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He will, once you're gone.


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

turnera said:


> He will, once you're gone.


But isn't that sad.

I don't know if I told you but when the issue of the "peck on the cheek" came up I called him "Judas" - don't know where that came from!


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

And why is that he is the one with the problem and I am the one taking the pills - that can't be right.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

bronwen said:


> And why is that he is the one with the problem and I am the one taking the pills - that can't be right.


Because he like most waywards, they feel little pain until they lose everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> Because he like most waywards, they feel little pain until they lose everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He seems to have no idea about how destructive this has been. He lives in denial. He hates to face his wrongdoings. Until a year or so ago I trusted him with my life.

The trouble is that I know that if I go I will never come back.

He used to be such a sweet gentle man.

Thank you for your thoughts

Bronwen


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

bronwen said:


> He seems to have no idea about how destructive this has been. He lives in denial. He hates to face his wrongdoings. Until a year or so ago I trusted him with my life.
> 
> The trouble is that I know that if I go I will never come back.
> 
> ...


......he is the same man you have always been married to.......both good and bad........difference is that now you know a LOT more about the bad. Without looking back, I thought you had mentioned that he had a rough upbringing..,.,potentially he has some deep seated self esteem issues....similar to PTSD......folks react all over the map with this type of issue, but it is likely that he has always been good at covering up whenever he has the potential to be caught doing something that another feels is wrong.,.,,to an extreme many times,. If this is the case, see if he will try some counseling to figure this out,,,,,,,just becoming self aware of the issue can be a big step forward.......I know.....I spent 56 years of my life without knowing why I was so deceitful about things that did not even matter. Your life with him is a base to build on.......good luck and prayers to you both


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## bronwen (Apr 29, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> ......he is the same man you have always been married to.......both good and bad........difference is that now you know a LOT more about the bad. Without looking back, I thought you had mentioned that he had a rough upbringing..,.,potentially he has some deep seated self esteem issues....similar to PTSD......folks react all over the map with this type of issue, but it is likely that he has always been good at covering up whenever he has the potential to be caught doing something that another feels is wrong.,.,,to an extreme many times,. If this is the case, see if he will try some counseling to figure this out,,,,,,,just becoming self aware of the issue can be a big step forward.......I know.....I spent 56 years of my life without knowing why I was so deceitful about things that did not even matter. Your life with him is a base to build on.......good luck and prayers to you both


I found what you said very interesting. He has become a people pleaser due mostly to his change of work place about 3 years ago. He suddenly found himself in a totally different arena - something he has never experienced in his life before. It changed him completely. I think it went to his head and he is now quite different - that is to say until I confronted him.

Since our confrontation he has lost his "bounce". 

He certainly has self esteem issues. After all that has happened he still has this need to be liked.

Thank you so much for posting something that made me think.

Bronwen


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bronwen said:


> He certainly has self esteem issues. After all that has happened he still has this need to be liked.


You have to ask yourself if you are able to meet his needs of affirmation. B/c if you can't, he will always, always, ALWAYS look for that outside of your relationship. And are you willing to be in that type of relationship?

My STBXH is broken in that fashion. My attention wasn't enough. He always had to validated from other sources and people, particularly females. I just could never satisfy that deep "need" he had to be liked and doted upon no matter what I did. 

My divorce will be final in Oct.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> You have to ask yourself if you are able to meet his needs of affirmation. B/c if you can't, he will always, always, ALWAYS look for that outside of your relationship. And are you willing to be in that type of relationship?
> 
> My STBXH is broken in that fashion. My attention wasn't enough. He always had to validated from other sources and people, particularly females. I just could never satisfy that deep "need" he had to be liked and doted upon no matter what I did.
> 
> My divorce will be final in Oct.


...self esteem can cause a person to not have a healthy internalized feeling of "being worthy".......meaning that they feel they have to do things for others to be liked., Maybe that is the trap he feel into with this OW......but it does not sound like bronwen's husband has an overwhelming need for affirmation from others since this apparently not been an issue throughout their marriage. I would suggest strongly that he be forced to dig deep inside himself to figure this stuff out if he wants the relationship.........and as hard as it sounds.....bronwen.....you will have to try a calming approach to create an environment where he feels it is "safe" to come completely clean. Folks with low self esteem are a bit backwards when it comes to getting them to speak about things that they are really uncomfortable about. I know you don't really feel he deserves much of a break at this point......but it does appear that he stayed within some very important boundaries, even tho he went way over on others.


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