# What do you consider cheating in your relationship?



## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Where do you draw the line?
What is acceptable/ unacceptable behavior (or part of your nature like for example flirting vs. behavior that goes too far)
Do you ever, or did you in the past find yourself crossing those lines and how did you habdle it (kept it secret, increased boundaris etc


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Unacceptable behavior would be any overt or covert act( i. e. EA, PA, flirtacious overtures, et. al.) made toward another individual that would make the spouse/significant other, provided they had any knowledge of such an act, feel ill at ease and would serve to assist in helping to deteriorate a marriage or a committed relationship.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Unacceptable behavior would be any overt or covert act made toward another individual that would make the spouse/significant other feel ill at ease and assists in helping to deteriorate a marriage or committed relationship.


I actually meant specifically *you* guys. Like anybody who answers answers with thier boundaries in ther relationsip


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Flirting/EA.
I never went over those boundaries. If I did I would probably hate myself tell W right away.


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

This is constantly in flux for us. It's been a tough couple of years now with my wife constantly trying to shift these boundaries. It drives me crazy. Part of the problem was I was just too easy going in these area early on. Live and learn.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> This is constantly in flux for us. It's been a tough couple of years now with my wife constantly trying to shift these boundaries. It drives me crazy. Part of the problem was I was just too easy going in these area early on. Live and learn.


I am so sorry to hear.
So she essentialy pushes what you agreed on before getting married?
Doesnt that eat away at the trust u have for her?


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

keko said:


> Flirting/EA.
> I never went over those boundaries. If I did I would probably hate myself tell W right away.


But physical actionn is cheating for you guys too, or no?


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

LauraF said:


> I am so sorry to hear.
> So she essentialy pushes what you agreed on before getting married?
> Doesnt that eat away at the trust u have for her?


I think one of my main complaints is that I always made sure to be on the up and up with her. If anything at all could be a problem, she heard from me first. So if someone else did something, I let her know, even just a comment from a coworker. She doesn't do the same for me, with me feeling like I need to play Sherlock Holmes all the time when it comes to her relations with others. Yes, it's hurt my trust in her. I don't want to overstate and claim she's unfaithful, but she's willing to put me in situations that up my insecurities, which I guess is a reflection of her own insecurities.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

LauraF said:


> But physical actionn is cheating for you guys too, or no?


It is, but my I drew my line at the point where it all begins. If we only limit ourselves to PA but not to EA, then EA will slowly eat away our marriage.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> I think one of my main complaints is that I always made sure to be on the up and up with her.
> 
> If anything at all could be a problem, she heard from me first. So if someone else did something, I let her know, even just a comment from a coworker.
> 
> She doesn't do the same for me, with me feeling like I need to play Sherlock Holmes all the time when it comes to her relations with others. Yes, it's hurt my trust in her. I don't want to overstate and claim she's unfaithful, but she's willing to put me in situations that up my insecurities, which I guess is a reflection of her own insecurities.



I thinnk that strategy is absolutely perfect. Would be better if it was mutual, of course, but that is wonderful. Real honesty.
:smthumbup:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

LauraF said:


> But physical actionn is cheating for you guys too, or no?


Yes, no question. Kissing on lips, holding hands even. Basically physical affection of any kind is out completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Yes, no question. Kissing on lips, holding hands even. Basically physical affection of any kind is out completely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you would never be able to go out and dance with a woman and strip joints are off limits too
or is it "physical affection" as in with a woman in real life who you could grow closer with


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

LauraF said:


> So you would never be able to go out and dance with a woman and strip joints are off limits too
> or is it "physical affection" as in with a woman in real life who you could grow closer with


I would not go dance with another woman (except maybe at a dull wedding,with my wife there) nor go to a strip club. The strip club inparticular holds no attraction, just a bunch of bitter drugged up skanky women who you are paying big bucks to so they will pay attention to you until your money runs dry? No thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I would not go dance with another woman (except maybe at a dull wedding,with my wife there) nor go to a strip club. The strip club inparticular holds no attraction, just a bunch of bitter drugged up skanky women who you are paying big bucks to so they will pay attention to you until your money runs dry? No thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




:rofl:

I loved that reply! i dont hate strippers as people but when i think of strip joint i think of sticky floors, i am not sure why


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

LauraF said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I loved that reply! i dont hate strippers as people but when i think of strip joint i think of sticky floors, i am not sure why


And the beer is way way over priced. Not to mention the so call high end places and those prices.

Honestly I never understood paying that much to get frustrated. If you are single and lonely, there are much more cost effective options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

I really took alot of what we considered off-limits for granted, until facebook. But now we both consider gaming, chatting, FB wal thread of more than 5-6 lines, and texting off-limits. As for real life interpersonal stuff goes: dancing, excessive eye contact, flirty body language, and unnecessary conversation are also off limits.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If I am tempted to do or say anything involving a female, I just imagine how I'd feel if my wife did or said the same with another guy. If I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to her.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> If I am tempted to do or say anything involving a female, I just imagine how I'd feel if my wife did or said the same with another guy. If I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to her.


Now _that_ is a good way to stay faithful.
Maybe men and women are different in terms of visuality and need for sexual gratification but cheatng hits both genders with exactly the same symptoms.
So thinking ahead like this is awesome.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

Cheating is anything that crosses your personal boundaries. Every couple is different, though the main ones are usually the same. If people are unaware of the others boundaries in the beginning on things like opposite sex friends, then that's when the trouble can start. 

Cheating is anything in my relationship where I feel that whatever was done, was disrespectful to me as a wife and partner. Pretty simple really. I'm sure most people have the same philosophy.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I make these following distinctions:

Inappropriate behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating

They are a continuum BUT somewhere in unfaithfulness is a deal breaker for me. Cheating is anything physical plus other activities. Anything overtly sexual. I see lap dances equivalent to dancing at the club. Club dancing is actually potentially much worse. We see these as forms of cheating. For sure unfaithful.

I don't frequent strip clubs but my wifes boundary for me is look but don't involve touch. We totally agree, but again I do not seek this out anyway.

Cheating is just a result of the other two going unchecked. Cheating is a level of unfaithfulness. Any form of disrespect is unfaithful. That can take many forms.

So boundaries are set at inappropriate behavior. BEFORE unfaithfulness. 

I had poor boundaries. Allowed myself to fall into unfaithfulness. Nothing physical but I was free falling. It got to expressing feelings via emails. The feelings were very much inappropriate to express but for sure were in the unfaithful range. I have better boundaries now.

We do not have any close opposite sex friends. I proved this was a problem for me. My wife already knew this.

Inappropriate behavior is putting yourself in a risky situation even if your intentions are good.

Ultimately my boundary is respect.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I make these following distinctions:
> 
> Inappropriate behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating
> 
> ...



why, how many affairs did you have and were they with friends of hers?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LauraF said:


> So you would never be able to go out and dance with a woman and strip joints are off limits too
> or is it "physical affection" as in with a woman in real life who you could grow closer with


Affection for another woman is cheating for me. Been there.

I have a conflict of interest I am dealing with. I actually have a personal boundary of no strip clubs at all. My wife is ok with me looking but not touching. No lap dances. I classify strip clubs for me as inappropriate. However, and my wife and I have discussed this my work colleagues really enjoy these things. I have been put in awkward situations with this. I avoid it if possible but if we are out and they pull into a gentlemen's club I can make a big deal about it or not. If I can make an exit I do. Otherwise I drink and feel awkward. I did my time in strip clubs years ago. I find the woman skanky. Some have great bodies but I find other types of women much more attractive and frankly dangerous.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LauraF said:


> why, how many affairs did you have and were they with friends of hers?


LOL. No dear lady. One EA was more than too much. I was working a very long term project with massive hours. I was at work all the time. This meant I was not meeting my wifes needs and I was preventing her from meeting mine. 

I was the technical AMOG of a high tech company. I ended up quiting that job over this. The work we were doing was very intense and the team worked very closely. Essentially I grew very fond of a younger brilliant engineer. She did turn heads in her own right but I would later realize the combination of inteligence, physical beauty and personality was my kryptonite. Yes I really respected her work. She was very competent and confident. She was no more savvy than I though when it came to this. I thought I was bulletproff. Thought my character was too high as I had passed many tests in the past. I came later to realize we were meeting each others needs. She fell for the AMOG. I think she genuinely respected and admired me, but it crossed boundaries. It never went physical. But I was free falling by then. My wife caught this. I never stopped loving my wife. She pulled me from the abyss. I was arrogant and ignorant and most of all in the wrong.

I did not realize it was an EA until I was well into withdrawal. I was certain we were just good friends.

It was not anything I was looking for and it took me many years to forgive myself. It [email protected] the bejesus out of me. I was not in control of myself to the extent I needed to be.

This will never happen again. It potentially could so I have to be strict on boundaries.

The situation was inappropriate and had gone into unfaithfulness. Unchecked ... Idunno. Honestly. Idunno. I hope I would have come to my senses but I was in the proverbial fog. My wife saved us.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> LOL. No dear lady. One EA was more than too much. I was working a very long term project with massive hours. I was at work all the time. This meant I was not meeting my wifes needs and I was preventing her from meeting mine.
> 
> I was the technical AMOG of a high tech company. I ended up quiting that job over this. The work we were doing was very intense and the team worked very closely. Essentially I grew very fond of a younger brilliant engineer. She did turn heads in her own right but I would later realize the combination of inteligence, physical beauty and personality was my kryptonite. Yes I really respected her work. She was very competent and confident. She was no more savvy than I though when it came to this. I thought I was bulletproff. Thought my character was too high as I had passed many tests in the past. I came later to realize we were meeting each others needs. She fell for the AMOG. I think she genuinely respected and admired me, but it crossed boundaries. It never went physical. But I was free falling by then. My wife caught this. I never stopped loving my wife. She pulled me from the abyss. I was arrogant and ignorant and most of all in the wrong.
> 
> ...


So you didnt exchange "i love yous" befoer you noticed one day that you went into withdrawal?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LauraF said:


> So you didnt exchange "i love yous" befoer you noticed one day that you went into withdrawal?


Yes. I was in denial. It is actually panful to recall this.
This happens all the time in EAs.

The low point of my life. A an example of what not to do or be. I lost all self respect and while my wife and recovered it took me many years to fully forgive myself. This was at my wife's urging. I realized I could not be the husband she deserved until I could do that. It will still always be a scar internally for me but I am at peace with it now. My wife and I hve a reasonable understanding of what happend and why. Realize this was totally out of character for me. I put myself naively in this situation and no doubt enjoyed the attention / admiration. This is much of the reason you see me getting on folks who just love that attention and think it is harmless. We all have out limits of course. I just think that playing with this stuff is dangerous.

So on that note I think i will go give my wife a hug. I need that now.


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## LauraF (Apr 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. I was in denial. It is actually panful to recall this.
> This happens all the time in EAs.


How old was she BTW and how old were you? I am just wondering
and did you love the OW or was it all just ego stroking in the end?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> So on that note I think i will go give my wife a hug. I need that now.


Entropy: You're a good man! And you've got an even better wife! I envy you both!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LauraF said:


> How old was she BTW and how old were you? I am just wondering
> and did you love the OW or was it all just ego stroking in the end?


Late 20s and mid 30s. 

I think I cared for her genuinely but in hindsight I have no doubt about ego. She was meeting needs like admiration that should be reserved for your spouse. Realize I was in denial I felt she was a very close friend. The withdrawal proved my wife right. It is not logical. I think this happens to a lot of people. They justify their behavior. My personality may have been condiscive to this.

I understand this now. We did His Needs Her Needs after this. It was eye opening. 

So when someone in an EA says they are just friends it is hard to reason with them. They are deluding themselves. I am sure at some point if things progress to where they justify escaalting with the "friend". Maybe that is where they go to calling them their "soulmate".

Anyway, it is one thing to talk about the lessons learned but I honestly do not want to recall the details. That had been done a long time ago. It is painful to dredge them up now. These are NOT fond memories.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> Entropy: You're a good man! And you've got an even better wife! I envy you both!


How very gracious of you to say considering my shortfall. But indeed my wife did not deserve this and she is a person of great substance. I know she feels I am worth it but I almost lost her. We do have something good.


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## xnobia (Apr 17, 2012)

Anything you do that you would not want your wife to do---lap dance? have one if you want---as long as your wife can give a lap dance to who she wants---equal boundaries....


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## occasionallybaffled (Apr 12, 2012)

Anytime you have to question if you should be doing it... you're already in the red. If it's debatable, it's inappropriate. Personally, I don't think of as a "line" that can't be crossed. I think of it as a direction. Nip it in the bud, way before you ever get to "crossing a line".


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## t_hopper_2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

xnobia said:


> Anything you do that you would not want your wife to do---lap dance? have one if you want---as long as your wife can give a lap dance to who she wants---equal boundaries....


I love this advice. If all married men followed it, there would be considerably fewer lap dances performed.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

LauraF said:


> Now _that_ is a good way to stay faithful.
> Maybe men and women are different in terms of visuality and need for sexual gratification but cheatng hits both genders with exactly the same symptoms.
> So thinking ahead like this is awesome.


For the longest time in our marriage,our rule was, don't do anything you wouldn't want me to do.

I followed it. That's about all I can say. :-/


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## seriously_yours (Apr 16, 2012)

xnobia said:


> Anything you do that you would not want your wife to do---lap dance? have one if you want---as long as your wife can give a lap dance to who she wants---equal boundaries....


Great Concept.....
My HFG had a party for her friends divorce.......
To her credit she did check with me on my comfort level with having a male stripper attend, with the caveat that it would not be for her, but for her friend....
I come home that night to a camera full of pictures with the male stipper laying on my HFG and his face snuggled in her breasts....
She said her friends "made her"
Her rule for me is no strip clubs,and I am totally cool that that
so do I get to throw a house party with stippers now ?


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