# Is it time to let the questions go and move on?



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I have other threads about my story, but afraid that my NEWEST question may get lost and I think it is important for me and other BS's in R to be addressed and get input on, so here goes.....

Does there come a point in R when the BS has to realize that he/she may not get all of the answers of their WS's affair(s), and if they want to succeed in R, they have to let some things go if all else seems to be doing good?


----------



## JustAnotherGuy (Jul 5, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I have other threads about my story, but afraid that my NEWEST question may get lost and I think it is important for me and other BS's in R to be addressed and get input on, so here goes.....
> 
> Does there come a point in R when the BS has to realize that he/she may not get all of the answers of their WS's affair(s), and if they want to succeed in R, they have to let some things go if all else seems to be doing good?


I think that you should not let it go, you deserve to know the complete truth.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I have to disagree with JustAnotherGuy, I think at some point you need to decide to move forward with your life.

Really, which of us ever know the real complete truth about what happened in our lives? Why we didn't get that job, why that girl in high school broke up with us, why our sibling did that thing back in 2003, blah blah blah.

I applaud you, Looking, and I think you are right. At a certain point, it's time to look to the future. Good luck.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I have other threads about my story, but afraid that my NEWEST question may get lost and I think it is important for me and other BS's in R to be addressed and get input on, so here goes.....
> 
> Does there come a point in R when the BS has to realize that he/she may not get all of the answers of their WS's affair(s), and if they want to succeed in R, they have to let some things go if all else seems to be doing good?


If your husband is also working hard on R then, yes, there is a point where you need to stop torturing yourself and him with questions about the affair details.

However, underlying psychological issues that may have been at the root of the affair or marital issues do need to be discussed and clarified, IMO.


----------



## JustAnotherGuy (Jul 5, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I have to disagree with JustAnotherGuy, I think at some point you need to decide to move forward with your life.
> 
> Really, which of us ever know the real complete truth about what happened in our lives? Why we didn't get that job, why that girl in high school broke up with us, why our sibling did that thing back in 2003, blah blah blah.
> 
> I applaud you, Looking, and I think you are right. At a certain point, it's time to look to the future. Good luck.


With all due respect, wouldn't you think that in this instance, the WS should be completely honest in an attempt to renew credibility? I think that the truth is a step towards closure.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

JustAnotherGuy said:


> With all due respect, wouldn't you think that in this instance, the WS should be completely honest in an attempt to renew credibility? I think that the truth is a step towards closure.


Perhaps he has. We don't know, we're not there. But Looking is there, and is thinking that it's time to move on.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Not defending my husband, but the questions I have do not have to do with the truth anymore, as I know about the affairs - it is more of learning details (which I know can lead to additional triggers, and those I have now are hard enough). 

I question because I want to know as much as possible (in my nature to have all details), but I am also starting to feel that if I keep this up and keep trickling the questions in, it may start to wear on both of us.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case my interogations my fWW put up with lasted for 6 months. Then after a year I told her I forgave her and that a bench mark was met and she passed and could stick around.

So yes there has to be a point when the A issues are set a side, but the important thing is getting to that point in time. Again it took us a year, and even now once in a while my fWW will bring it up. 

I would also have to say that you may not get to this point if you still have unresolved issue ....especially about "having everything"

Lets just say in my case I had had enough about this guy and that guy a what he did and what he didn't do.

So in short I think it more about us as individuals...if we had *enough info" versus getting *all* the info. My point is I could not have moved on unless I was satisfied more then having everything. Hell we never get "everything" 

I have to say even after 2-1/2 year since confronting I just got some new info....with out even asking.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Not defending my husband, but the questions I have do not have to do with the truth anymore, as I know about the affairs - it is more of learning details (which I know can lead to additional triggers, and those I have now are hard enough).
> 
> I question because I want to know as much as possible (in my nature to have all details), but I am also starting to feel that if I keep this up and keep trickling the questions in, it may start to wear on both of us.


Can you pose this question to a counselor. 

It is apparently normal to need to know the details. The counselor should have explained that to your spouse.

Still, at a certain point, when you know enough, why keep asking for more mind movies. 

I say this for you, not him. IMO, he should fess up to anything you ask. 

But, IMO, some details may just cause you more harm.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

How far out are you?

We're two years and I still ask him questions. The 'need to know' has diminished to almost nil now, but every once in a while I ask stuff. And I will continue to do so. He answers patiently and lovingly now - he didn't at first, till he realized it's something I really need.

There are still many things I do not know, but I'm ok with that. I know that part of our lives is in the past, and he's into ME now, so it's ok that some of what he did remains obscure.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Details are painful but you sound alot like me in the fact that I needed to have them.
As painful as it was I found it interesting on knowing how the OM's acted and behaved and what was a turn on and a turn off.

For examble my fWW told me about one guy who used his hand and would run around her body in high speed ..never spending more then a split second on a erraginous zone ( a tingly part) before moving on to another then another then back then move on. Hell he hit a dozed body part with in 2 seconds.

The point is we would laugh and talk about what a turn off it was and what she liked about my for play skills. A discusion that gave me an idea of what she and OM's did and just a convo about what was going on behind my back.
Its these details that prevent the imagination running wild, a discusion that tells me that yes she screwed around and even though each guy was different and some were great in bed. but the bottom line is all of them knew she was married and all of them were used as bandaids for her sh!tty marriage.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@hope1964, I wish I could hit the like button twice b/c that were I am at now....funny how 2 years can bring two betrayed to the same level of thinking.
I mean its alot different in the 1st few month then in the 1st few years when it comes to a healthy R.

I think OP shouldn't be affraid to continue to question... another consequence her man has to face and how he will stand up to it.

Better to push him now then stay quite and watch him go off in a few years kind of thing.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I heard over and over at first that two years seems to be a threshold for many BS's. Maybe it's true. I hate to put timelines on these things, though, because every case is so very different.

_"I think OP shouldn't be affraid to continue to question... another consequence her man has to face and how he will stand up to it."_

:iagree:


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

DD1 was Dec 7. DD2 was Dec 22. DD3 was Jan 3. DD4 and Final Contact was Mar 6. 

My mind tries to lump this whole affair together as 1 - that he never really made a final decision (and he didn't) until Mar 6. However, my heart hurt more each time I found out that he resumed contact (email/texts).

So we are 1 day shy of 4 months into TRUE R. I have given him many chances to leave since then, and yet he has stayed. I have also said that I am no longer willing to do the heavy lifting, that I got us this far, that I fought for our family when there was no hope and when he could not see clearly enough to fight for it - that he almost lost it all. I belive he is trully remorseful and his anger/hatred/demons for what he did is killing him. He sent me an email this morning about other things (nothing bad), but includes the following. We were doing well for the most part considering, then had 2 blowups last week where I was ready to leave, and has since even upped his game since then, FINALLY doing everything he should have been doing from day 1. So, I am wondering for me, do I concede, and know that life is not fair, but that my marriage is worth more than getting every detail? Yes, he cheated, and he owes it to me to answer every question I have, but R is not a one-size-fits-all situation, and demanding what we deserve does not always fit the dynamics of the people involved or the circumstance. 

He has been transparent, remorseful, been hating himself, broken, and a lost soul. Yes, I have been there for him, even as I hated him, even as I chewed him out, even as I cried, even as I died inside. I told him that it is time he gets over it already and starts being the man he should/could be. He does have some good in him and he needs to build on that. He needs to be 100 percent committed or it wil not work, so he needs to find a way to deal with his self anger and get over it. I am not the cause. He is the cause, and his demons are holding him back. I told him that his demons are the third party in out marriage now and I can't fight those and can't help him. (this is all on another post...getting back to the question/matter at hand)Here is what he wrote:

I Love You and our family and we will take our time to relax also. I don’t mind the sacrifice of unneeded expenses for smiles and happy hearts! I have a picture of Superman at my desk that my daughter colored for me, it’s about time I start being that person. I’m sorry for everything I’ve done and my mistakes but I can’t ever be great if I don’t lock those things away. I won’t forget them or the pain that I’ve caused you. I need to release so I can breathe again and start giving what I’m capable of giving to You and the Girls! I am a great person who has made horrible choices and decisions in my life but I also have made great choices and decisions and have made personal sacrifices for my country. I won’t forget the wrongs or rights that I’ve done anymore, I’m 41 years old and have the rest of my life to be great and I’m going to! I love you and I won’t EVER FAIL you ever again, you deserve that from me! We need to reconnect with family and friends and we need to make new friends and we need to clean our windows from the inside and let the sunshine in. If we walk and run side by side in life neither one of us will ever be down long should we fall. So to answer your question from yesterday, Yes, I am happy and I’m ready for us to be happier!"


In my instance, I am beginning to accept that I have all of the important information, but asking my husband to keep going back is stopping him from being able to move on as well, which is holdiing us back in a sense, from something that I really do want to move forward from and put behind.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

JustAnotherGuy said:


> With all due respect, wouldn't you think that in this instance, the WS should be completely honest in an attempt to renew credibility? I think that the truth is a step towards closure.


My feelings exactly. If a wayward spouse is not totally, brutally honest in answering questions the betrayed spouse has, then the WS does not truly want R. They are protecting someone else (or maybe themselves).


----------



## ShatteredinAL (Feb 5, 2012)

To me, not having all the answers means there is still a wall between the two of us. It means he and his tramp still have secrets they're holding onto. I can't move on knowing this.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

But doesn't he understand that when you ask questions over and over and get the same answers that he's rebuilding trust?? And when he answers truthfully and sadly and apologetically it helps you?

I do not get these so-called remorseful WS's that can't SEE this. Mine didn't at first but it didn't take long before he did. 

Have you shown him some stuff, like the letter someone has the link to in their sig? The Understanding link in my sig?


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I think there are still a couple of questions I may ask, but not the 4 pages that I have accumulated since last DD. 

I also know that as unfair it is, asking, and asking and asking is not helping us. Can a person be beaten down every day, reminded of what a joke and dirtbag of a parent, spouse and friend they have been to the one person who should mean the world to them, and HONESTLY be able put on a brave face day after day without any negative consequences - just knowing that at least they are helping us and nothing that they feel matters?

Is that not just ridiculous and giving way to much credit to the WS? Don't we already know that they are weaker than a loyal spouse? I am not saying to give them a free pass, but at some point, don't we (BS) have to say enough is enough? If we keep asking questions, does it keep that gorilla in the room at all times? Triggers are bad enough, but at what point do we say - OK, I am always going to have questions, but do I always want to bring this horrible time in our lives back up again, or can I just accept that it will always be there and learn to move past it?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maybe it depends on how you ask and how the WS takes it. If you ask in an accusatory manner, in attack mode, then of course it's detrimental. But if you ask in a manner that is conducive to conversation, just openly and honestly saying what you're feeling, and the WS really wants to help you, then it isn't opening up anything that should be left alone. It's part of the healing process. For us, anyway. 

The gorilla will always be in the room. Sometimes he'll be behind the curtains where we might forget about him for a while, but sooner or later he'll peek out, or maybe jump out and roar at us. Over time, though, he's getting more and more feeble and isn't able to freak us out like he could at first. One day I think he'll keel over for good 

Based on this post and your other post, I really think you're living in the fog and allowing him to just rugsweep things.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I do appreciate all your feelings and honesty in your answers. Let me ask this - at what point when we decide that it is enough to us, does it stop becoming rug sweaping?

I am getting the feeling from some responses that if we don't keep kicking the crap out of our WSs that we are giving into them, giving them permission to cheat again and just rug sweeping ourselves.

I am not saying that I don't have a reason to ask more questions and most likely will, but in general for all BSs who want to know, "When is it time to let the questions go and move on", well, when is it?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

It isn't something you just up and decide one day. If something pops into my head in 5 years, I want to be able to ask it. It isn't that black and white. It's a process.

And who said anything about beating them up?? If you are beating them up, you're doing it wrong. If they accuse you of beating them up when you're not, they're doing it wrong. It's something you both have to be on board with. If the BS is doing it for revenge and to make the WS feel bad, that's wrong. If the WS refuses to answer when it's asked lovingly, that's wrong.

The biggest red flag I see with your WS is that he refuses to do counseling and thinks he can fix himself. That would be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

So maybe I need to approach the questions differently - OK - yes, I do. The only time I go into question mode is after a trigger and I am angry.

But I don't want to keep doing this either. I will always have questions, I am sure, but geez.... I see how this is so hard for both of us. I know that I won't be asking questions forever - can't do it. I want to rebuild something positive and leave out any room for the negatives.

It just seems like so many (probably) BSs give the advice to keep at your WS until they break. Should this be the goal in the end? To break them? To beat them up so they feel they really are no good for anything? It seems to me, that human nature would then dictate that they will only build up remorse for you, and how is that going to work in R?


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

In 2010 my wife had an internet A that was very sexual in nature. She never came clean on any of it unless I had the evidence and even then she lied over and over again. I went in for IC and my IC told me that my wife would do it again and if the guy was local it would be a PA. He was correct.

For me I want the answers, period. I have not gotten them all and I believe she is still stone walling and it makes no sense. The questions I have are legit ones and the fact that she keeps saying she does not remember is for me pure bull. I keep telling her that by not anwering these few questions is driving me nuts and make me believe that there is something far worse then what she has told me. She still says, "I don't remember".

I am still in R but it is getting old not getting the answers.

I can move on but I told her again last weekend that I will not have a repeat of 2010 where I rug swept the whole thing.

That is where I am at. I feel I am back in 2010 and will not stand for it but I have backed off and will continue to talk about it until she finally answers my questions.

If not, in the next several months I may call it quits on the marriage.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Anyone who says the goal is to 'beat them up' IS DOING IT WRONG. The goal is to HEAL. The BS needs to heal from the trauma, and the marriage needs to heal if it was in trouble before the infidelity was discovered. And the WS needs to heal whatever was wrong with them that caused them to cheat. Those three processes have to ALL occur if R is to be truly successful. You WS isn't healing, he's denying. You aren't healing, you're rugsweeping. I can't comment on your marriage because I don't know what it was like beforehand, but my guess is that there's not much work being done on it either. Are you guys in MC? Do you go on dates? Romantic weekends? Have lots of reconnecting sex? Anything? Do you read books, fill each others love banks regularly?


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Thorburn - you hit a nerve " I keep telling her that by not anwering these few questions is driving me nuts and make me believe that there is something far worse then what she has told me."...I think that is it.

Hope - we go on dates, are going on a cruise in a couple weeks (just us), sending the kids to stay with family for 3 weeks, have a family trip planned this winter, lots of sex initially now down to about 3 - 4 times a week. He never was a reader. He does audio books instead and has been listening off and on to Joel Osteen for self help. We started church. He still has a long way to go. I am going to push marriage conseling. If he won't go on his own, he needs to go with me.


----------



## Seesaw (Jun 5, 2012)

For me you need to ask until you don't need to ask. That sounds pretty obvious so let me explain my case.

I am just under three months from DD and working on R reasonably well. My wife had an EA and perhaps if it had been a PA things might be different for me, but I don't have any need to know anything else. I just want this guy to be history and for both of us he seems to be becoming just that.

This is not rug sweeping and not complacent. I am deeply concerned about how we got to where we are, why my wife was open to it, and what we both need to do, individually and together, to have full R. For me, that process does not require further details now. OM could have been anyone; who he is and what they did is now secondary. What matters is where we want to get to.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> So maybe I need to approach the questions differently - OK - yes, I do. The only time I go into question mode is after a trigger and I am angry.
> 
> But I don't want to keep doing this either. I will always have questions, I am sure, but geez.... I see how this is so hard for both of us. I know that I won't be asking questions forever - can't do it. I want to rebuild something positive and leave out any room for the negatives.
> 
> It just seems like so many (probably) BSs give the advice to keep at your WS until they break. Should this be the goal in the end? To break them? To beat them up so they feel they really are no good for anything? It seems to me, that human nature would then dictate that they will only build up remorse for you, and how is that going to work in R?


Looking, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on where you want to be, emotionally -- are you looking for permission? I hereby give you permission 

You are right, some folks on here do seem to be about the eternal punishment -- just go look at that thread about the poor woman on her deathbed and see how many people STILL were judging her. If you are ready to let go and move forward, then I say Bravo to you and go for it!


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Gottmans Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work is a great book for the two of you to work through together. Not Just Friends is another good one. So is The Five Love Languages. 

Good for you for pushing MC. now DO it


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah, it would be nice if there were some benchmarks, ratios, food for thought to evaluate whether one's own R is progressing even if it's at a snail's pace.

I am one of those ones who would like to know everything, including how someone felt at the time that they made their decision to do whatever.

Over the weekend I had a meltdown. It was caused by the fact that my fiance and I were discussing the differences between alpha and beta people. I realise that there are various definitions. But the one I was putting forward was that while both alpha and beta want to succeed, alphas don't mind crossing into grey unethical and even illegal areas (like athletes who take performance enhancing drugs that they know from the start are illegal).

I found it interesting that my fiancé didn't want to agree with me on that point. And all I could think at that moment was how this woman, whom he insisted, until we looked at the messages together, was "just a friend" actually told my fiancé to drop me so those two could date again. ...how's that for a zero sum game, she would win and I would lose.

IMO, that is very grey area, highly unethical and not a good foundation for "just a friendship" and I have to admit I needed to give air to that thought. 

So my fiancé was very nice for the rest of the day and tried to calmly respond to my questions. He finally said-- I hope he believes what he says-- that he was wrong to say that he was taking a trip without giving me the details while he was justifying in his own mind that it was ok because she was "just a friend." 

I think the above is necessary for the WP to face so that they are less likely to do it again.

It also bothers me that he let her know more about me than I knew about her including things about our sex life at the time. It seems that he still wants to maintain that she was just a friend at that time, so it seems to me when I probe the validity of things that he tells me, he needs to shift something. 

for example, I questioned him about a condom in his trash can, which given how messy he is around his place (at that time), is very likely the same condom that we used (two weeks ago before he took his trip). He told her about that incident. So it seems as if they are having a laugh at my expense. Isn't that cute, this 50 year old, divorced event planner (as she once referred to me) is worried about the history of a condom in your trash can. 

So then he tried to say that he was surprised at how little he needed to clean up before I was happy to come over and cook for him (for his b-day). That appeared to me to be insulting, that for someone who has made it clear through a few remarks in the shared messages and of course through her choices, that his place was too much of a **** hole for her to visit again, that he and she could have a little chuckle about how low my standards might be that I would still go over to his place to visit......when she would not........ that again required some clarification from him.

I also wondered if he has since beefed up his boundaries and also contemplated what he might do should women in the future try it on with him. Does he need the attention? I give him a lot. I give him also a lot of physical affection in addition to sex (which, btw, he turned down from me during this period,......I guess his way of keeping himself "honest" ie,I am not sleeping with anyone else, and I will let you know if I am)

Do I do the things that he needs from me in order for him to be able to respect me? Perhaps some of you men can chime in here. I think his EA is so completely different from me. Personality wise, she is in your face. Sarcastic. From the messages between them, she started a couple with the word "*******," 

One interesting example here.....despite being proud of having a master's....she had a habit of making mistakes in diction, in particular, writing the word "loose" when she meant "lose." So my fiancé sent her an FB private message letting her know that she made that mistake twice on her wall that day. Now if a friend had sent such a PRIVATE message to me, I would have thanked them and made the changes. I thought it was interesting that she came back kicking and scratching and accused my fiancé of thinking that he was perfect. And that she had written that on her FB early in the morning after a late night out.......

Tell me, you men, is this the kind of feisty behaviour that you all long for.

These are some of the open questions that I have still opened.....


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Looking, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on where you want to be, emotionally -- are you looking for permission? I hereby give you permission
> 
> You are right, some folks on here do seem to be about the eternal punishment -- just go look at that thread about the poor woman on her deathbed and see how many people STILL were judging her. If you are ready to let go and move forward, then I say Bravo to you and go for it!


lamaga is correct in that if the approach is eternal punishment then there will never be healing. I have done a hell (it's a pun) of a lot of research on infidelity. The way I see it is those that get the answers they need heal quicker and the marriage has a far better chance of working.

Why some WS's refuse to answer questions is beyond me. Do they really want to be in the marriage?


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

NexTime - I feel for you, and I can see that you are VERY angry still. I have not read your story yet, but plan to.

I am angry, and do I have a bad taste in my mouth (no pun intended) about men in general - sort of, but I know it is because of what happened to me. There are some men out there who do not cheat. Try not to lump them all together. Even some of the bad ones have some good in them I am slowly starting to see.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I have thought about it, and my approach has been all wrong. I need to go calmly into it and keep it calm. I only ask when I trigger and get angry - not a good combination. That being said, I am not angry all the time now.

I have thought about it, and this seems to be the way to take it..."Husband, you already know the answers, so that won't change what happened. What harm is in it to just let me in on the answers for my peace of mind so that I do not continue to imagine what I don't know to be something more or worse than it is?"


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> NexTime - I feel for you, and I can see that you are VERY angry still. I have not read your story yet, but plan to.
> 
> I am angry, and do I have a bad taste in my mouth (no pun intended) about men in general - sort of, but I know it is because of what happened to me. *There are some men out there who do not cheat. *Try not to lump them all together. Even some of the bad ones have some good in them I am slowly starting to see.


I don't believe that my fiancé sees himself as a player. But as some people are at times, when they want to do something, they find ways to justify it. I am sure that the majority of affairs --whether EA or PA -- happen from people who never saw themselves in that situation before.


----------



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

In one of our discussions, my husband said that he never went out searching to have an affair. He never wanted out of our marriage (until this last time when he dug himself in so deep.)He was approached, and he caved. He was weak, he saw dips in our marriage at those times and just wanted to pleasure himself (I don't know how else to put it). He chose wrong. There is no excuse. He was selfish. He needed to put effort into his own marriage, but was an a**hole instead.

He has no idea how many times I was approached and never even thought of cheating. Does it make me smile, sure, but that is all - sorry buddy, I am a woman of my word and this ring says it all. 

I don't know if a player is one who looks for affairs or if they are a player if they have more than one affair regardless of who initaited it. That may be a question for a new thread.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have had to take time off to get cancer treatments. and after some discussion about my employment prospects (let's face it in any country, 50 year olds + in low level professional positions are in very precarious positions in the global economy.....I was at a conference where someone who described himself as a professor but now a freelance something or other.....)

So I do feel rather insecure at the moment. he has told me that I will never need to work when I am with him....interesting......but my history with him at the moment is that obviously, he is not looking for a yes lady........ so I need to understand what exactly he is looking for......


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Next time, have you and he read this book?

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass

If not you really really should. Him especially. Whether you end up together or not.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

NextTime, I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you are feeling better.


----------

