# Got Caught, Here We Go, and an FYI to Wives everywhere



## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

Some quick background: Married 6 years. Two preschool aged children. Her late 30s, me early 40s. Sex is infrequent, typically one day (or one weekend) every 5 to 8 weeks on average. My wife seems unbothered by the lack of sex in our marriage. Like it's a nice idea, but who has time for that.

The situation: I got caught watching internet porn late last night. She was on one end of the house in our bed, with our 4 yr old, and I was on the other end of the house. I'm not a stranger to internet porn, but hardly a "consumer" of it, especially not since we married. I've considered it disrespectful in a relationship, but I'm at a point now of caring a lot less about that now that I'm essentially celibate. Anyway, I was unaware of the fact that my tablet was connected to the Bluetooth speaker in the living room. I had no idea, but porn video audio was playing out there, while I couldn't hear a thing inside the room I was in. She woke up heard it, and then opened the door to where I was, told me she could hear it, and left the room. If it happened to someone else, it'd actually be pretty funny. How stupid could I be. She didn't catch me masturbating, though I would have eventually gotten there had I not been interrupted. 

Now she's all hurt and offended. No doubt I'm addicted to porn, and I've basically been lying about it, sneaking around, which is essentially a form of cheating. Yes, I sneak and watch porn sometimes, but it is in all honesty very infrequent. Most other nights, I would have been reading or watching Netflix or youtube videos. Nothing porn related. A few times before this she thought she'd caught me watching porn late at night, and it was just car videos on my tablet. (I like cars.) Now, in her mind, I'm some creep who sneaks off to whack off to porn every night or more. 

I told her every man who is deprived sex will eventually watch porn. She acted like I was way off with that statement. (Am I???) I feel bad being a total idiot for having the porn playing through the Bluetooth speaker out loud, but in my opinion, if she doesn't want to have sex with me more than a dozen days a year, she should be fine with me masturbating to porn on occasion when no one else is around. I don't feel bad about it because I feel like she has given up her right to judge me or be offended by it because she never wants to have sex. I've told her for a few years now that the lack of sex is an issue for me. I don't even crave porn. Some of the stuff I'm not comfortable watching. But, sometimes, it's like you're crazy hungry and the only thing in the fridge is a jar of something that's not your preference but you go with what you got.

I honestly don't know how I should feel about the incident. Her being so upset with me makes me feel resentful, not remorseful. If we had sex once or twice a week, porn would be the last thing on my mind. I didn't try to explain it to her because she wasn't going to hear anything other than me admitting I'm a horrible person, but I think for a lot of men porn is a tool for loneliness. That's my history with it at least. 

Anyway, if any of you are wives who have lost interest in sex, it is probably having some deep rippling effects on your husband. When your wife stops having sex with you, it affects your self-esteem, your overall mood, your motivation, and really your identity of your own masculinity. I think women perceive men as just being grumpy because they didn't get any, but a sexless or sex deprived marriage hits guys much deeper. Our perception of our sexuality is directly tied into our perception of our self worth. Not as a lover, but as a man in general. Imagine your husband or even a parent tell you that they love you but just don't have any interest in talking to you very often. What used to be frequent, engaging conversations have become infrequent, less engaged verbal exchanges. After five weeks of living in the same house but never having a single conversation because your spouse isn't interested or is too tired to talk, how do you feel about yourself? Sex isn't a treat for most men. It's an element of who we are. For a man for whom sex is important, strip it from him, and you change the person he is...was.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not sure why you felt a need to include that last paragraph, as though women need to be lectured about this topic. What you are probably not aware of is that men are as likely to make their marriage sexless (or near sexless) as women are. And believe me, when a man does that, it hits his wife just as hard as a awful as sexless (or near sexless) makes you feel.

Your problem is your wife and your relationship.

If you want to try to fix your marriage and the lack of sex, you will need to figure out why your wife does not want sex. Generally, a person who stops wanting with thier spouse does so becasue they harbor resentment towards their spouse. That's about 70%-80% of the time. The rest of the time it's due to something physcial like hormonal imbalance (is your wife on birth control pills, anti-depressants or other meds?).

Baring meds or something physcial, the problem is most likely in your relationship. Your wife is checking out emotionally. Fix the relationship and the sex will most likely return.

There are two books that could help you figure this out "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them and do the work that they lay out. 

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend in quality time, just the two of you together doing things that you both enjoy?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Generally, a person who stops wanting with thier spouse does so becasue they harbor resentment towards their spouse. That's about 70%-80% of the time. The rest of the time it's due to something physcial like hormonal imbalance (is your wife on birth control pills, anti-depressants or other meds?).


Or she has lost her attraction to her husband or her respect. Or he is having an affair. Or she's had enough of sex. Or she's had some childhood trauma regarding sex. 

Now she's caught you watching porn. You are in the dog house. Don't expect sex for a few months. Until she recovers. Seems to me that she doesn't understand "your problem". But that's pretty normal.

BTW, my wife was happy about me watching porn, so I wouldn't bother her too much... :laugh:

Good luck! And welcome to the club...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Figure out if you're the source of the problem. If you are, then fix it, and make sure she sees you working on it. Go to therapy, if necessary. If you're _not_, and you make an effort to connect with her, then see what happens. If she is the problem - as is often the case - then she first has to realize it, second, has to be willing to work on it, and third, has to actually do something about it. Porn isn't the real issue here - it's a symptom of a deeper problem. Even then, even if you were having a lot more sex, porn isn't a problem unless you are neglecting her. Some people think porn is cheating - that's their prerogative, of course, but IMO that's nonsense.

Ultimately, you two need to communicate honestly about this issue and jointly find a solution. Otherwise, your options are the status quo, or split up. IMO, give it a year of intense effort, and if there is no improvement, leave.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Although you already said it, it's a form of cheating. Not because watching porn is cheating, but if it was a no-go for the two of you as a couple, and now you are sneaking and lying about it...it is indeed cheating. Want to really get that point through to yourself? Go back, read your own words, but replace the words "watching porn" with "cheating"...all of your excuses for why you should be allowed to watch porn, and your excuses of why it's her fault that you are watching porn are the SAME words that every cheater uses on the person they have been lying to.

You could address your marriage problems in a lot of ways. You could ask to go to counseling. You could tell her that YOU are going to counseling even if she doesn't want to. You could directly address the problem by asking her what it will take for the two of you to develop a healthier relationship. You could tell her that she is wasting your time by not wanting an equal and fair relationship and that you want a divorce. You could outright tell her that the only way you will be able to stay in the relationship with her is to have a sexual release and that porn is the way you are going to do it...and then NOT sneak around and hide. Heck, blare from every speaker in the house so she gets the point and it's out in the open so she can't hide from how seriously you are hurting too. 

BUT DON'T use dishonestly to fix your marriage...because it won't. It just adds to the hurt and shame. And eventually...as happened with my husband who refused to talk to me about his problems...lead to him just finding someone outside of the marriage once porn wasn't enough.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Or you could just tell her you are going to watch porn...light a few candles...tell her not to disturb you unless she wants to watch it or role play it with you.

Here is the thing, dude. There is a reason you are not having sex. It may be legit. It may be bovine excrement. You don't really elaborate on your dynamics so it is hard to tell from your opening post. 

That said, if your wife is not interested in a fulfilling sex life with you, she has zero right to demand you not be allowed to masturbate. She does not get to control your individual sexuality, but she is more than welcome to be a part of it. 

Just make sure you turn off the Bluetooth next time. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Your problem is not that you got "Caught" watching porn, your problem is that you are in a sexless marriage. 

And you are what, 40? Give me a break. 

Did you not realize that your marriage was sexless? I think that definition if 12 or 10 times a year, and how long have you been married? 

Read on here and else where about sexless marriages dead bed room. 

I think you may not have the balls to tell her that this is not acceptable. 

Like @Married but Happy said, if you are the problem, got fat, insensitive, too beta whatever, fix it. 

But you guys have to talk because right now, either she has already lost her attraction to you, which is very hard to get it back. Or she is having an affair. 

It could be other medical factors, like hormones or birth control, or anti depressants, but if it is not one of those, you got way bigger problems than she caught you watching porn.

Do you want to spend your life in a sexless marriage???


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I am not a fan of pornography, but I am even less a fan of wives who hold sex hostage. If she is going to refuse to have sex with you, then she can't really gripe if you occasionaly use pornography. She needs to be a wife or turn a blind eye.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Her having two children under five certainly is a factor. She is tired, believe me.

But, that is a legitimate reason for fatigue, not an excuse for keeping her husband sexless. 

I agree with the resentment angle and the medical possibility.

Resentment may be because all the work and pressure of raising children and managing the house is on her, or that is what she thinks.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

JP3 said:


> If it happened to someone else, it'd actually be pretty funny. How stupid could I be. She didn't catch me masturbating, though I would have eventually gotten there had I not been interrupted.


Since you ARE someone else, I have to admit I did start laughing when I read that you were broadcasting all those fake moans and that cheesy 70's porn music into your living room.


> Now she's all hurt and offended. No doubt I'm addicted to porn, and I've basically been lying about it, sneaking around, which is essentially a form of cheating. Yes, I sneak and watch porn sometimes, but it is in all honesty very infrequent. Most other nights, I would have been reading or watching Netflix or youtube videos. Nothing porn related. A few times before this she thought she'd caught me watching porn late at night, and it was just car videos on my tablet. (I like cars.) Now, in her mind, I'm some creep who sneaks off to whack off to porn every night or more.


She sounds like all the foolish, paranoid women I see on a well known infidelity board who _also_ automatically jump to that conclusion. The SECOND they hear the guy watched porn - at any time in his entire life - he's surely a porn addict, a sex addict, a Narcissist and of course, he needs IC. Some even go so far as to blame porn as the 'gateway' that 'led' him to cheating. If they weren't so damned pitiful, it would be laughable.


> I honestly don't know how I should feel about the incident. Her being so upset with me makes me feel resentful, not remorseful.


Why on earth should you feel remorseful for watching porn just because she's a tight ass about it? 

I'll bet her head would explode if she knew that even men who ARE getting sex regularly still occasionally indulge in porn. On horrors!


> Anyway, if any of you are wives who have lost interest in sex, it is probably having some deep rippling effects on your husband. When your wife stops having sex with you, it affects your self-esteem, your overall mood, your motivation, and really your identity of your own masculinity. I think women perceive men as just being grumpy because they didn't get any, but a sexless or sex deprived marriage hits guys much deeper. Our perception of our sexuality is directly tied into our perception of our self worth. Not as a lover, but as a man in general. Imagine your husband or even a parent tell you that they love you but just don't have any interest in talking to you very often. What used to be frequent, engaging conversations have become infrequent, less engaged verbal exchanges. After five weeks of living in the same house but never having a single conversation because your spouse isn't interested or is too tired to talk, how do you feel about yourself? Sex isn't a treat for most men. It's an element of who we are. For a man for whom sex is important, strip it from him, and you change the person he is...was.


I'll assume you've told her all this many, many times and she's STILL being an ice queen?

Well, what does* that* tell you?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> Although you already said it, it's a form of cheating. Not because watching porn is cheating, but if it was a no-go for the two of you as a couple, and now you are sneaking and lying about it...it is indeed cheating.


 Well, with all due respect, being in a *sexless marriage *is a 'no go' for the OP, so I guess that means his wife is 'cheating' on _him_.

Do you honestly think she's completely *unaware* that she's no longer engaging in an intimate relationship with the guy and that she's left him hanging? Gimme a break. She doesn't get to pull that **** then cry 'foul' when he resorts to other means.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Opinions will vary. Mine:

If she is rejecting you for sex AND if that rejection is not a clear result of some negative behavior of yours, then you have every right to turn to porn. 

Porn is a problem if it start to replace your interest in your partner, but if your partner is already turning you down for sex, then I really don't see a problem. 

I suggest telling to to her very clearly. She doesn't want to have sex with you, so you have found a harmless alternative. What else does she suggest?


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, with all due respect, being in a *sexless marriage *is a 'no go' for the OP, so I guess that means his wife is 'cheating' on _him_.
> 
> Do you honestly think she's completely *unaware* that she's no longer engaging in an intimate relationship with the guy and that she's left him hanging? Gimme a break. She doesn't get to pull that **** then cry 'foul' when he resorts to other means.


I know my personal situation flavors my response to this, but yes. I do think there is a chance she doesn't see the severity of the situation. Maybe she thinks that right now, once a month quickies are okay while she is tending to young children. Maybe she is a lazy sex partner, and she doesn't realize he's serious about his needs. Without knowing the other person, there is no telling.

I am not against porn...I like porn...a lot quite frankly. However, if he knew that she doesn't like it, and that it would hurt her feelings and he 'sneaks' around to watch it...then obviously there is a problem somewhere, whether it lies with him or her. And there are all sorts of ways to address that, in all different measures of 'severity'. But him having to sneak around to watch will solve NOTHING. It won't make him feel better about himself, it won't make her feel better when she starts snooping to see how often he watches it, and it certainly will not close the distance between them. 

In my situation...which flavors my answer certainly...my husband was not in a sexless marriage. We shared links to porn on a regular basis. But he said there was a level of flirtation and intimacy that he liked that I wasn't giving to him. Fair or not fair, that was his thinking. Porn became porn chat rooms and then it became even more fun to chat with people that were readily accessible to him, which then turned to having sex with the readily accessible person. 

Will the OP do that? Who knows? Maybe, after 15-20 years of resentment? But the first step, lying about watching the porn and hiding it...that only leads down.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> -snip-
> 
> Your problem is your wife and your relationship.
> 
> If you want to try to fix your marriage and the lack of sex, you will need to figure out why your wife does not want sex. -snip-


Here it is.



JP3 said:


> -snip- Two preschool aged children. -snip- She was on one end of the house in our bed, with our 4 yr old, -snip-


As to your other question.



EleGirl said:


> -snip-
> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend in quality time, just the two of you together doing things that you both enjoy?


Here is the answer to this. I think it is more truth than example.



JP3 said:


> -snip- What used to be frequent, engaging conversations have become infrequent, less engaged verbal exchanges. -snip- never having a single conversation because your spouse isn't interested or is too tired to talk, -snip-


I did the books, I did the time, I got told to back off and stop pressuring. 

While it is true that the only person JP3 can change is himself, I have little hope that those changes will have any result as long as cosleeping continues.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

JP3 said:


> Some quick background: Married 6 years. Two preschool aged children. Her late 30s, me early 40s. Sex is infrequent, typically one day (or one weekend) every 5 to 8 weeks on average. My wife seems unbothered by the lack of sex in our marriage. Like it's a nice idea, but who has time for that.


Sex once every 5 to 8 weeks? That's considered a sexless marriage.

Is that because of you or because of her? I can't really tell from your description. Why aren't you guys having sex? 

And "who has time for that" doesn't explain a whole lot. People will make time for the things that are important to them.

As for getting caught watching porn...that ain't no big thang. But if the lack of sex is because that's the way she wants it, I would certainly call her out on her feigned indignation. What did she expect? You didn't sign up to marry her so you could be in a sexless marriage. Sadly, that's where you are. 

Now what are you going to do about it?


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

Some women just don’t have a sex drive. It could have nothing to do with you, she may love you and be attracted to you but just be a long w drive person. Having two small children doesn’t help that, she’s tired or scared they might walk in. Somehow you have to get her to understand how you feel which is hard to do. She doesn’t feel the way you do about sex and probably will never understand. 

I will say this.....her not having sex with you is just as much cheating as you watching porn. She is cheating the marriage and going against her commitment to you.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Read @EleGirl's books...they should be mandatory before marriage.

You have been given lots of good advice. Was your sexual relationship better in the past? before marriage? before kids? 
or has it always been desultory?

Birth control pills, antidepressants, lack of certain vitamins and amino acids--as has been said--these and a bunch of other things lead to LD.

Two YOUNG kids are exhausting. Does she have help?

You are in your seventh year of marriage--notorious for the glitter being dulled and restlessness/resentment arriving.

I chuckled too. Sounds like you and wife have discussed porn before. What was result of discussion?

This can be a good thing if you both approach it as a platform to work on y'all's relationship. Don't miss this opportunity to do the hard work on better communication.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Keep fapping bro!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

HDC said:


> Some women just don’t have a sex drive. It could have nothing to do with you, she may love you and be attracted to you but just be a long w drive person. Having two small children doesn’t help that, she’s tired or scared they might walk in. Somehow you have to get her to understand how you feel which is hard to do. She doesn’t feel the way you do about sex and probably will never understand.
> 
> *I will say this.....her not having sex with you is just as much cheating as you watching porn. She is cheating the marriage and going against her commitment to you*.


Truth


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JP3 said:


> Her being so upset with me makes me feel resentful, not remorseful.


It will never cease to amaze me. The longer I read these sexless marriage stories, the less I actually understand why people who so obviously don't want sex with their partner, will get so bent out of shape when the partner finds it elsewhere, especially in porn, where it's a fantasy.

I have neighbor ladies. Some of them get sex from various places, boyfriends, etc. Guess what? I don't really care when, where, who, how, or if they get sex. That is because I don't want to have sex with them myself.....and, because I don't, it does not matter to me what they do with their sexual lives.

If my wife was getting sex somewhere other than me, I would be hurt, rejected, and angry. That is because I want to have sex with her myself.

This mode of behavior of people who are not attracted to their spouses is a complete mystery to me.



HDC said:


> her not having sex with you is just as much cheating as you watching porn. She is cheating the marriage and going against her commitment to you.


I agree that this is truth. I will go further to say that sex every 8 weeks is, IMO, a sexless marriage, and fully means NO ATTRACTION.

If she was attracted, she would not be sleeping with the 4 year old every night.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

JP3 said:


> Now, in her mind, I'm some creep who *sneaks off* to whack off to porn every night or more.


*FYI to husbands everywhere.... don't hide or lie to your wife about porn! *

It is perhaps OK to be discrete as long as you and your wife have had a discussion on the topic and it is determined that doing so does not violate trust in your relationship.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

TJW said:


> This mode of behavior of people who are not attracted to their spouses is a complete mystery to me.


Like you say, it's a mystery. They expect your total devotion to them and they want your interest to continue, but they cannot reciprocate. They don't understand that they need to cultivate that interest, instead they let it wither. They would be insanely jealous if you looked elsewhere, while they cannot give themselves to you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You guys have bigger problems then just porn.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Are you completely unaware of why she may not want to sex you? Like, your a good dad, husband and earner? You do the dishes 3 days a week and rub her feet and she still has the curtains closed? Even if it’s not that extreme, she is clearly shutting down which is very passive aggressive. If she is losing feeling for you but feels stuck, then why worry.

Just spank away man. Rub it out everywhere. Donit in bed as she walks in, watch porn on your phone. Take long showers and lock yourself in the bathroom when all the kids are in bed. Eventually she will need to break the passive aggressive and then you can at least see where you stand. Or you could talk to her about it, but I prefer the wanking off like a monkey with ADHD method a little more.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

Herschel said:


> Are you completely unaware of why she may not want to sex you? Like, your a good dad, husband and earner? You do the dishes 3 days a week and rub her feet and she still has the curtains closed? Even if it’s not that extreme, she is clearly shutting down which is very passive aggressive. If she is losing feeling for you but feels stuck, then why worry.


I've slacked off on some things in response to being sexless. Mostly outside projects like trimming trees she wants thinned out or cut down (we live on 2 wooded acres), landscaping stuff in front of the house, redoing the floor and ceiling in the spare bedroom, etc. Me being passive aggressive, basically.

As far as "non-elective" responsibilities, I have always carried my fair weight. I take care of kids. I do kids' baths. I clean up after baby. I cook at least half the time. I do dishes. I do 100% my own laundry. She has been working part time, so there are other things she carries more weight with, like kids' laundry.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> Was your sexual relationship better in the past? before marriage? before kids?
> or has it always been desultory?


We had a good, active sex life before kids. When we have sex now, it's usually good.





sunsetmist said:


> Two YOUNG kids are exhausting. Does she have help?


Our oldest goes to preschool 3 days, youngest 2 days. I watch them if she ever has work things on the weekend. We don't have family in town, though. Two preschoolers have contributed significantly to this problem, if just from a time to engage standpoint. Our oldest is difficult to get to sleep.




sunsetmist said:


> I chuckled too. Sounds like you and wife have discussed porn before. What was result of discussion?
> This can be a good thing if you both approach it as a platform to work on y'all's relationship. Don't miss this opportunity to do the hard work on better communication.


She doesn't approve of porn. In a normal, sexually healthy relationship, I wouldn't turn to porn. She said she assumed I was just masturbating in the shower sometimes. We didn't discuss the future viewing of porn. 

She had asked me months ago if I was masturbating. I told her if she was that interested in my sexual activities she could be a part of them. She said fair enough and that was the end of that conversation. Honestly, my personal feeling is if she isn't engaging with me sexually, how I choose to relieve myself is none of her business. I think she assumed I masturbated sometimes, which she apparently doesn't have a problem with, but she does not approve of porn watching. Again, if we had sex regularly, I'd honor her feeling about that.

Thanks for the positive words.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Is her problem with pornography rooted in any way in religion?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Herschel said:


> Are you completely unaware of why she may not want to sex you? Like, your a good dad, husband and earner? You do the dishes 3 days a week and rub her feet and she still has the curtains closed? Even if it’s not that extreme, she is clearly shutting down which is very passive aggressive. If she is losing feeling for you but feels stuck, then why worry.
> 
> Just spank away man. Rub it out everywhere. Donit in bed as she walks in, watch porn on your phone. Take long showers and lock yourself in the bathroom when all the kids are in bed. Eventually she will need to break the passive aggressive and then you can at least see where you stand. Or you could talk to her about it, but I prefer the wanking off like a monkey with ADHD method a little more.


This is just really incredibly weak, you realize that right. You are saying to substitute masturbation for a sexless marriage? 

Good god man, why be married at all then?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

JP3 said:


> We had a good, active sex life before kids. When we have sex now, it's usually good.
> 
> Our oldest goes to preschool 3 days, youngest 2 days. I watch them if she ever has work things on the weekend. We don't have family in town, though. Two preschoolers have contributed significantly to this problem, if just from a time to engage standpoint. Our oldest is difficult to get to sleep.
> 
> ...


Listen, you have not addressed any of the points that many have made to you.

Do you realize the you are the definition of a sexless marriage? 

Your wife, get to take the kids to daycare between 2 and three days a week and she works part time and she is too tired for sex? BS on that. 

Listen you have way bigger problems the her views of porn, which frankly are pretty prude. 

Are you willing to live with this? Because if you don't put the work in to fixing this, it will get worse. 

The first thing you need to do I have a REAL talk about your relationship and what you both want and expect especially in terms of sex...


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> This is just really incredibly weak, you realize that right. You are saying to substitute masturbation for a sexless marriage?
> 
> Good god man, why be married at all then?


No, not at all. I’d say divorce, as I’ve done that, twice already. However, given the circumstances and that he is passive and she is passive aggressive, I’d flip the switch and be overt about it to make her confront it herself. Assuming he wants to stay with her. Passive aggressive people will avoid initiating discussion about what they are being passive aggressive about until they feel forced to.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

JP3 said:


> Me being passive aggressive, basically.


I think we are all guilty of being passive aggressive at some point in time. No one is perfect, and it can indeed can keep things exciting. But passive aggressiveness will never improve your marriage. 

If you must be passive aggressive, you are going to need to kick it up quite a few notches and actually put some real effort into it. 



Instead of just doing your laundry, do your wife's laundry too. Use a different fabric softener with a rather strong smell, so that way she is reminded all day long that you washed her cloths. 
Buy her a really nice gift for no reason and give it to her. When she asks you why you got her the gift, smile really big as if you caught her red handed forgetting a very important date and say, "OMG you don't even remember what today is do you?"
Make up a fake traffic violation as if you owe a few hundred bucks for something really stupid like "unlawful maneuvering of a parked vehicle." Claim to your wife that you got caught cranking your car before securing your seat belt by a policeman parked beside you. Withdraw the money and claim it was to pay the fine. Actually use the money to hire someone to do all the yard work while she is away. Claim you did everything yourself because you felt really bad about the traffic ticket. 

Now that is how to be passive aggressive!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Y'all all humor me here. Hold my magnolia while I make you laugh. 

Fix this, it is early yet. Pay attention to what may be contributing to her LD. Birth control can be a major culprit.

Sex is so important and I'm glad you're wanting to work on your relationship. Sex can be a loving interchange or more. Porn will get you in trouble if you expect that more too soon from your wife. Someone asked if religion might influence her tastes. Does it? Has she discussed her lack of drive with her doctor? (If she were having a heart attack, she would call her doctor---Well, this is a 'heart' attack.)

While you are reading EleGirl's books (maybe even read to her if she can stay awake), let's find her something to read.

Does she like romantic stuff--Hallmark movies, romantic comedies, etc.? If she is a romantic....

Harlequin makes a Blaze line that is sexy, but not porn. (Sometimes reading is more acceptable than viewing.) There are increasingly more exotically sexy books available on Amazon if y'all graduate to that. Do you ever use toys? Is she open to that?

Carry on...


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

JP3 said:


> She doesn't approve of porn. In a normal, sexually healthy relationship, I wouldn't turn to porn. She said she assumed I was just masturbating in the shower sometimes.


Well there ya go OP. Now get back into that glass box she's constructed for you and don't bother her with any of your needs. Be grateful she lets you masturbate at all...

...

I kid of course. This 'event' is a blessing in disguise. Way past time for you to challenge her 'authority' on what, where and how you accommodate your meager needs. Right now through her actions she's telling you she's not one bit attracted to you and doesn't respect you. Why do you think that is? That's the root problem to solve.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Herschel said:


> No, not at all. I’d say divorce, as I’ve done that, twice already. However, given the circumstances and that he is passive and she is passive aggressive, I’d flip the switch and be overt about it to make her confront it herself. Assuming he wants to stay with her. Passive aggressive people will avoid initiating discussion about what they are being passive aggressive about until they feel forced to.


OK then, that is better IMHO. 

If what he is going through EVER happened to me, I would have already divorced. I have divorced for less. 

But OP here will be posting on the Dead bedroom sites in a few years when now is when he should be taking action to change the situation, or get out now...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I asked about religion because it is common for Christians to be anti-porn.

However, if that is the case, his wife might want to read I Corinthians 7:5. It says "Do not deprive one another"


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

JP3 said:


> I've slacked off on some things in response to being sexless. Mostly outside projects like trimming trees she wants thinned out or cut down (we live on 2 wooded acres), landscaping stuff in front of the house, redoing the floor and ceiling in the spare bedroom, etc. Me being passive aggressive, basically.
> 
> As far as "non-elective" responsibilities, I have always carried my fair weight. I take care of kids. I do kids' baths. I clean up after baby. I cook at least half the time. I do dishes. I do 100% my own laundry. She has been working part time, so there are other things she carries more weight with, like kids' laundry.


Do you realize that doing chores has nothing to do with whether she is attracted to you or not? She's not having sex with you simply because of a lack of attraction and everything else is just an excuse that you or she is using to justify her behavior. So maybe you want to get to the root of the problem and skip all the peripheral stuff?

To help you out you need to figure out whether you are an attractive man. The basic ways to determine that include: are you physically fit, are you professionally successful, are you stylish and groomed, do you have a position of leadership at work or in your community, do you have friends and a social life outside of her, do you pursue hobbies, do you lead your relationship with your wife or does she lead it, do women routinely flirt with you, are you passive or are you actively in control of your life and relationships?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> Do you realize that doing chores has nothing to do with whether she is attracted to you or not? She's not having sex with you simply because of a lack of attraction and everything else is just an excuse that you or she is using to justify her behavior. So maybe you want to get to the root of the problem and skip all the peripheral stuff?
> 
> To help you out you need to figure out whether you are an attractive man. The basic ways to determine that include: are you physically fit, are you professionally successful, are you stylish and groomed, do you have a position of leadership at work or in your community, do you have friends and a social life outside of her, do you pursue hobbies, do you lead your relationship with your wife or does she lead it, do women routinely flirt with you, are you passive or are you actively in control of your life and relationships?


So much this. A woman who is sexual and wants to have sex with her husband will not deprive HERSELF because she did more dishes than he did.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Either she is not into sex with you (which you may or may not be able to remedy), or she is not into sex at all - which you cannot do anything about.

Spend a few months working on becoming more attractive - gym, diet, grooming, extra effort at work. If you see no progress, have the talk. Once. Tell her you need sex and you need input from her on what she needs to feel more attracted to you. If she does not provide a list, or if she deflects and says "it isn't you, it is me" or "I am just so busy / tired / distracted", then you tell her simply: it is OK if you don't like sex or don't like sex with me. I am not going to force you to have sex with me. But I am not going to stay married to you if you don't. So you can tell me what I can do to help you get in the mood, or you can figure out what changes you need to make in your life to have the time and energy and desire to have sex with me, or you can wait a while and deal with the divorce papers I will be sending you. I would rather you pick one of the first two - and I will do my best to work with you on those, but if you pick the third then I will do my best to get to the end of the process as quickly as possible. I don't want you burdened by my sexual needs for a minute longer than you want to be.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> To help you out you need to figure out whether you are an attractive man.


Look in the mirror and here is a reference guide of male body shapes created by women to let you know:










...all women want the inverted triangle. Just so you know you it is totally OK if you need to buy padded shirts to make your shoulders bigger and men's spanx to slim your waist/hips. 



















It is the same as women buying padded bras and tight fitting cloths around their waists. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> So much this. A woman who is sexual and wants to have sex with her husband will not deprive HERSELF because she did more dishes than he did.



True. But consistently _not_ doing your fair share can lead to resentment. And resentment is an attraction killer. So, it's a good idea to remember that while doing more chores won't equal more sex, not doing your fair share just might eventually equal less sex. 

Also, most women don't want to shag someone with whom the extent of their interactions revolve around what's for dinner, whose fault it is there's no more laundry detergent, and whether or not the baby seems particularly gassy today. So it's important to keep dating your spouse. Keep being the sexy and attractive person they fell in love with. Keep treating them like the sexy and attractive person you fell in love with.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Rowan said:


> True. But consistently _not_ doing your fair share can lead to resentment. And resentment is an attraction killer. So, it's a good idea to remember that while doing more chores won't equal more sex, not doing your fair share just might eventually equal less sex.
> 
> Also, most women don't want to shag someone with whom the extent of their interactions revolve around what's for dinner, whose fault it is there's no more laundry detergent, and whether or not the baby seems particularly gassy today. So it's important to keep dating your spouse. Keep being the sexy and attractive person they fell in love with. Keep treating them like the sexy and attractive person you fell in love with.


This is What I have been saying all along. There is nothing that can be done that will increase the amount of sex, but there is plenty you can do to reduce it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

My husband is somewhere between inverted triangle and rhomboid. I shall therefore call him rhombangle. 

Although maybe I should examine him up realllllly close first just to be sure.........


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Rowan said:


> True. But consistently _not_ doing your fair share can lead to resentment. And resentment is an attraction killer. So, it's a good idea to remember that while doing more chores won't equal more sex, not doing your fair share just might eventually equal less sex.
> 
> Also, most women don't want to shag someone with whom the extent of their interactions revolve around what's for dinner, whose fault it is there's no more laundry detergent, and whether or not the baby seems particularly gassy today. * So it's important to keep dating your spouse. Keep being the sexy and attractive person they fell in love with. Keep treating them like the sexy and attractive person you fell in love with.*


This kind of thinking I will never understand. 

Now the bold part, I get, I believe in. But anyone that thinks sex in a marriage, should be give to get, I don't get it. 

You are a team, the work should be divided equally. You do the dishes because you are an adult. And you take care of each other, sexually and every other way, because you are freaking in love.

Anyone that is doing dished because they want sex is a fool. And I would say that there is no real love in the marriage. 

And men that think they need to be good little boys to get laid. Give me a break. 

If a woman love you, she wants to have sex with you, it is that simple, it always has been and it always will be...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

BluesPower said:


> This kind of thinking I will never understand.
> 
> Now the bold part, I get, I believe in. But anyone that thinks sex in a marriage, should be give to get, I don't get it.
> 
> ...


And the inverse???


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think as much as you want to blame your wife for your porn, I think you should really just accept that it is YOUR problem. 

Sure, she has her problems too I'm sure... but it's pretty unfair to start pointing the finger just because you want to justify your sleezy porn thing.

I mean, you just damaged your marriage and you're getting defensive and justifying yourself. Further, it seems like you are making a call out to all wives "this is what happens ladies when you don't service your man". I've got to call BS on that.... There's a whole world of positive ways to connect with your wife versus turning to porn filfth. No one ever said it was easy being a man. I say straighten up, throw out the porn, apologize and start wooing and figure out why she doesn't want to have sex (assuming she loves you). Best wishes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do one or both of your kids sleep in the same bed as you?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> I think as much as you want to blame your wife for your porn, I think you should really just accept that it is YOUR problem.
> 
> Sure, she has her problems too I'm sure... but it's pretty unfair to start pointing the finger just because you want to justify your sleezy porn thing.
> 
> I mean, you just damaged your marriage and you're getting defensive and justifying yourself. Further, it seems like you are making a call out to all wives "this is what happens ladies when you don't service your man". I've got to call BS on that.... There's a whole world of positive ways to connect with your wife versus turning to porn filth. No one ever said it was easy being a man. I say straighten up, throw out the porn, apologize and start wooing and figure out why she doesn't want to have sex (assuming she loves you). Best wishes.


You can't damage a Dead marriage. There is no way to positively connect to a disinterested non-wife. I agree that the porn isn't helping, but it is just the tip of the iceberg here. In every other government blessed contract if one party fails the contract is void. The only reason marriage is different is to protect the innocent children. As long as they are provided for, there is no reason to call this marriage intact.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.


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## changingmale (Aug 19, 2018)

I have been in your shoes sort of. If you love your family and wife and want to stay as a family you 2 need to talk alone and listen and not get upset. I have used porn off and on during my marriage and now no longer married. Porn has something to do with it and i most of the time did not play. Put yourself in your wifes shoes. She maybe tired and maybe a little jealous of you bc you have a "life" outside of the marriage bc of your job or maybe she feels like you do not do enough at home. I dont know. All i know if you want to make everything work and be right etc you need to make it right. I made many mistakes and now i am alone and it STINKS. Do you 2 ever have date days/might? Make it work and be sorry trust me being alone for me sucks. Good luck


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## Monkie04 (Sep 16, 2018)

Not all women are against their SOs watching porn. I mean almost all men do. You need to talk to her and find out exactly why she is so upset about you watching porn.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> Do you realize that doing chores has nothing to do with whether she is attracted to you or not? She's not having sex with you simply because of a lack of attraction and everything else is just an excuse that you or she is using to justify her behavior. So maybe you want to get to the root of the problem and skip all the peripheral stuff?



Yeah, I wasn't stating that info just out of the blue. I was answering a question someone asked in regard to me being a "good" dad/husband or not. I don't do that stuff to win points or earn her favor. I do it because I'm a human being who can take care of himself and his kids.



Bananapeel said:


> To help you out you need to figure out whether you are an attractive man. The basic ways to determine that include: are you physically fit, are you professionally successful, are you stylish and groomed, do you have a position of leadership at work or in your community, do you have friends and a social life outside of her, do you pursue hobbies, do you lead your relationship with your wife or does she lead it, do women routinely flirt with you, are you passive or are you actively in control of your life and relationships?


I've gained a little weight--like 10 lbs--and with a full time job and two preschoolers, I do not have time to go to the gym any more. That's another reason I get upset over infrequent sex--I told her sex was my only form of cardio exercise and if I die of a heart attack before 50 she gets zero from my life insurance. Anyway, I'm in my early 40s and can and do pass for 10 years younger. I haven't grayed, no beer belly, full head of hair. I'm over 6 ft tall and look fit if I have clothes on, lol. If I were dating or just out there flirting, I would do fine. 


I have friends, but not much of a social life. Again, I work full time and have two preschoolers. If I have an afternoon free, I'd rather do something hobby related. Sometimes that involves other people, usually not. I have a white collar job, so when away from work I like to do things with my hands, like working on cars or misc. project type stuff. I work with people all day long, so if I can ever find free time, I like to be alone. I don't think either of us is a categorized leader over the other. I lead in some things, she in others.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

turnera said:


> Do one or both of your kids sleep in the same bed as you?


Sometimes. Our 4 yr old is very difficult to get to sleep at night. Sometimes I put him to bed, tell him a story and lay beside him til he falls asleep, then get up and go to bed myself. Sometimes she does that. Sometimes he ends up in our bedroom if he wakes up later in the night. 

That is def a problem, but that isn't an excuse for the lack of sex. That's what Pixar movies are for on a Saturday or on an afternoon. I'm not even asking for sex 3-5 times a week right now, while we have such little ones. But 1-2 times a week is completely doable through the craziness.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I think as much as you want to blame your wife for your porn, I think you should really just accept that it is YOUR problem.
> 
> Sure, she has her problems too I'm sure... but it's pretty unfair to start pointing the finger just because you want to justify your sleezy porn thing.
> 
> I mean, you just damaged your marriage and you're getting defensive and justifying yourself. Further, it seems like you are making a call out to all wives "this is what happens ladies when you don't service your man". I've got to call BS on that.... There's a whole world of positive ways to connect with your wife versus turning to porn filfth. No one ever said it was easy being a man. I say straighten up, throw out the porn, apologize and start wooing and figure out why she doesn't want to have sex (assuming she loves you). Best wishes.


I'm not trying to blame her for me choosing to watch internet porn. If we had a healthy frequency of sex, I wouldn't feel the need to take care of business on my own on occasion. It's that simple. Porn is not my preference. I don't have a porn problem, as you put it. If I had a normal sex life with my wife, I could never see porn again and be perfectly content. It is not natural for a healthy male to go long periods of time without ejaculating. Preferably, that happens by having sex with our wives. My wife has sex with me so infrequently that sexual tension/frustration builds up. Could I choose to suppress it? Sure, but why should I be expected to? Men are visual. Masturbating to the ceiling or a wall in the shower doesn't really do it for me. 


When a husband isn't sensitive, or romantic, or interested in having engaging conversations with his wife, is it sinful for her to watch romantic movies and read romantic books as a substitute? She's filling a void created by him. Would you focus more on telling her to stop wanting romance and attention, or would you focus more on telling him to step it up and take care of his wife's needs more than he is?

Watching porn damaged my marriage less than her taking sex out of it.

I apologized for unknowingly having porn audio playing through the living room Bluetooth speakers and waking her up late at night. I didn't actually apologize of watching it, because the lack of sex has been an ongoing problem in our marriage for a few years and I'm taking matters into my own hands...literally.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BigDigg said:


> This 'event' is a blessing in disguise. Way past time for you to challenge her 'authority' on what, where and how you accommodate your meager needs. Right now through her actions she's telling you she's not one bit attracted to you and doesn't respect you. Why do you think that is? That's the root problem to solve.


Could be. If a fortune teller told me a week ago that my wife was going to catch me watching porn, I would have thought how horrible a thing. I would have dreaded it. When it actually happened, though, it didn't really hit me that hard. I was obviously startled when she opened the door and confronted me, but after it happened I felt more of a feeling of "Good--she needs to know." Obviously I'm not proud of myself, but I haven't been wallowing in shame either. 

I've tried to explain to her that having a healthy sex drive and living in a house with an attractive woman you don't have sex with is like an alcoholic living inside a bar, but he can't ever get any of the bottles open. She hasn't really gotten it. I think catching me will make her consider stuff maybe that my words haven't...after she's less mad about the incident.

That is a message I hear from her actions, but I honestly don't think that's the message she is sending. I think the less a person has sex--women moreso--the weaker their sex drive gets. I think she has failed to make sex a priority. She tires out fairly early at night. She is hyperfocused on being a mom, and my sexual needs can be put on hold in her mind until a more convenient time. Yes, there could be contributing factors, but I feel like those are more of the core issue.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> Someone asked if religion might influence her tastes. Does it?


I don't think it has anything to do with religion. I think she doesn't like the thought of me looking at images of naked women who aren't her. I get that. As sated previously, though, if we had sex I wouldn't feel like watching porn to get off. Porn isn't something I crave or feel like I need. 



sunsetmist said:


> Has she discussed her lack of drive with her doctor?


To my knowledge no. A couple of people have mentioned birth control. We can't get pregnant any more, so she no longer takes birth control.




sunsetmist said:


> Does she like romantic stuff--Hallmark movies, romantic comedies, etc.? If she is a romantic....


Yes, but more like events than little cards and stuff type of romance. Honestly, I used to be the kind of guy I was brought up being told women want and appreciate. I was romantic. Little thoughtful things. Surprise nights out. Foot rubs. I enjoy lots of foreplay. When the sex took a back seat, I gradually stopped being as romantic as I used to be. 



sunsetmist said:


> Do you ever use toys? Is she open to that?


We don't. I haven't asked. I don't know that toys would do anything to increase our frequency of sex, but maybe?


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

JP3 said:


> I've tried to explain to her that having a healthy sex drive and living in a house with an attractive woman you don't have sex with is like an alcoholic living inside a bar, but he can't ever get any of the bottles open. She hasn't really gotten it. I think catching me will make her consider stuff maybe that my words haven't...after she's less mad about the incident.


JP3 - Trust me, she gets it. She doesn't care and basically told you as much if you were really listening ("go masturbate in the shower if you need it and don't bother me"). Pay very close attention to your actions here as they are unattractive - she has you in a position of having to defend and explain and seek her approval. She's treating you like a child. If you fail this test (hint: it is a test) she will continue to lose attraction.



JP3 said:


> That is a message I hear from her actions, but I honestly don't think that's the message she is sending.


It's true that being tired and hormones can sap drive, but you guys went from a normal sex life to a dead bedroom. Your wife shows disdain for you and your needs. This isn't normal anymore. If she wanted sex trust me she'd find a way. She simply doesn't want it *with you*. There's an ego protection circuit breaker for men in this position where they fall back on all the 'equity' they bring to the relationship (great dad! makes money! buys flowers! does dishes!) and refuse to consider or accept that none of that makes their wives hot for them. This is aided by a false assumption that 1) their wives owe and will desire sex if they check boxes 2) their wives think like them 3) things would be better if they just communicated a bit more on their needs. There's a similar ego protection circuit for wives too where they can't admit that they aren't sexually attracted to their husbands so they go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their lack of attraction. You'll get the "if you just did this..." shifting goalposts. Or "i'm just low libido" when historically they haven't been. I'm guessing a lot of times these women aren't even conscious of it because doing so would make them question their own life choices and their attractiveness and ability to get the perfect mate. Much easier to find false boogieman (it's the dishes!). Don't jump through these hoops - it's a circle and you'll wind up in the same place every time. 

I'm not at all trying to be harsh to you but there's a million people on this message forum that have been there. Individual circumstances differ but the root cause is usually the same. You're not alone. You're not a bad person, unattractive (physically at least) or anything like that. But really open your mind to the idea that what *you* are doing right now is driving your wife further away and the dynamics of your relationship need to be fundamentally re-thought and re-built. Counter intuitively you should just own this one and be *more* selfish to your needs going forward and less acclimating to your wives. She doesn't want another child or someone who shows low value by kissing her ***.

My 2 cents anyway. Best of luck. Pulling for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A few thoughts. First, I have a couple books you need to read. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, necessarily, I just think the attitude in the house is wrong. You've allowed the marriage to take a back seat to the family. These books will help with that:
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Hold On To Your N.U.T.s

They won't turn you into some chest-beating Neanderthal, but they _will_ show you how to subtly change the dynamics in the home. 

Second thing is to look hard for a VERY good babysitter. I recommend an older woman with experience. Pay her VERY well for a standing appointment every week (the good pay helps with the stability and you need that stability very much right now, until the marriage is back on track. Once you do that, tell (*don't ask*) your wife you have found this person and you two will start going out once a week - does she want Friday night, Saturday night, or Sunday afternoon? She gets to choose that part. Then you start going out and doing what you did back when you were dating - paying attention to each other, falling back in love.

Third thing: maybe do some reading about women's psyches. How they are attracted to a man, what makes them want to have sex, etc. The more you know, the more you'll be able to catch the nuances in your own relationship to see if you can tweak it. You'll find tons of articles on this online.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

turnera said:


> A few thoughts. First, I have a couple books you need to read. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, necessarily, I just think the attitude in the house is wrong. You've allowed the marriage to take a back seat to the family. These books will help with that:
> No More Mr. Nice Guy
> Hold On To Your N.U.T.s
> 
> ...


 This is excellent, balanced advice. Really listen to this period


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.


Thanks for the chuckle about the evils of porn and what a vile heathen the OP is for daring to view wicked and immoral porn during his 'private time.' Perhaps he'll realize the error of his ways and next time, he'll put on the National Geographic channel and watch a documentary on the life cycle of the Arctic Hare while he's doing his thing. 

Secondly, you obviously haven't read the whole thread because it has nothing to do with health issues - known or unknown. The OP's wife clearly *told him* after the kids came that she's NOT INTERESTED in sex anymore and that she doesn't have time for that crap, anyway. It's no longer a priority for her and she seems to think it should automatically no longer be one for the OP as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I forgot to add that the reason I say to tell her, don't ask her, is that women are subconsciously attracted to strong men. Look at any romance novel. If you give her control over whether you two go out, she just may say no, the kids, I'm tired, the money, whatever. When women get their kids (another primal need), they sometimes are willing to 'give up' the marriage, whether they know they're doing it or not. So by you taking charge and saying 'this marriage needs attention and I want to have fun with you again,' you will look more attractive to her.

Now, that said, don't you dare take her out for a great date and then try to have sex that night. She will see that as a bribe and will be very angry, and rightfully so. The date night needs to be seen as part of the marriage, not a means to an end.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

BigDigg said:


> they can't admit that they aren't sexually attracted to their husbands so they go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their lack of attraction. You'll get the "if you just did this..." shifting goalposts. Or "i'm just low libido" when historically they haven't been.


It has to either be "your fault", or something which is "beyond their control", "...that's just the way I am..."... Horse$hit....that's not the way she was with the resurrected James Dean....but he had no job....and was stoned every day....

she knew not to get pregnant by his selfish a$$...



BigDigg said:


> there's a million people on this message forum that have been there. Individual circumstances differ but the root cause is usually the same. You're not alone.


Yep. I don't know about a million, but I am certainly one of them. I'm cynical and jaded..... or, maybe, just experienced.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> It has to either be "your fault", or something which is "beyond their control", "...that's just the way I am..."... Horse$hit....that's not the way she was with the resurrected James Dean....but he had no job....and was stoned every day....
> 
> she knew not to get pregnant by his selfish a$$...
> 
> ...


UMMMM....did the OP state his wife cheated, or have you mistaken his wife for yours.....


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.
> ...


I didn't call porn evil, but it is. I guess your point and OPs is all men have to masturbate... BS!!! Further, you're not a man so you have no idea what men really need!

Whether you think it's evil or not, it is damaging to marriage when men start going outside the marriage to get their needs meet. Also, we can't assume there isn't a health issue just because it hasn't been diagnosed. If my hormones we're jacked I'd probably go around saying "I don't need sex" too.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> UMMMM....did the OP state his wife cheated, or have you mistaken his wife for yours.....


I recognize the OP did not state that she cheated.

I didn't have reference to cheating. I had reference to premarital experience, and I didn't marry her, thank God, or I would have been in the same situation as the "million" others on this board.

I didn't make it clear enough. What I wanted to say was that wives may have been quite different when we met them, and were quite different with men other than us. That's how we can be hoodwinked into believing that this is "our fault"....but, in reality, it is not our fault, because we were no different before marriage than after marriage. They marry us for our "other qualities", which we do not understand at the time.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> I recognize the OP did not state that she cheated.
> 
> I didn't have reference to cheating. I had reference to premarital experience, and I didn't marry her, thank God, or I would have been in the same situation as the "million" others on this board.


Sorry, I have read so many permutations of the "she wouldn't do it with me but she went wild with OM" that I made an assumption. So you didn't mistake her for a cheating wife.

Did you mistake this wife for your former girlfriend?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure why you felt a need to include that last paragraph, as though women need to be lectured about this topic. What you are probably not aware of is that men are as likely to make their marriage sexless (or near sexless) as women are. And believe me, when a man does that, it hits his wife just as hard as a awful as sexless (or near sexless) makes you feel.
> 
> Your problem is your wife and your relationship.
> 
> ...


Respectfully this can't be and shouldn't be automatically his fault.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I didn't call porn evil, but it is. I guess your point and OPs is all men have to masturbate... BS!!! Further, you're not a man so you have no idea what men really need!
> 
> Whether you think it's evil or not, it is damaging to marriage when men start going outside the marriage to get their needs meet. Also, we can't assume there isn't a health issue just because it hasn't been diagnosed. If my hormones we're jacked I'd probably go around saying "I don't need sex" too.


I get that you believe with all your heart the things you say. I get that you had a problems with porn. 

But you need to get that not everyone, or even remotely everyone, thing the way that you do. 

More over, most people like to get laid, men and women alike. Your issue with porn, are your issues. 

This guy is in a sexless marriage because he would rather kiss his wife's ass than be a man. 

It has nothing to do with porn.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> I recognize the OP did not state that she cheated.
> 
> I didn't have reference to cheating. I had reference to premarital experience, and I didn't marry her, thank God, or I would have been in the same situation as the "million" others on this board.
> 
> I didn't make it clear enough. What I wanted to say was that wives may have been quite different when we met them, and were quite different with men other than us. That's how we can be hoodwinked into believing that this is "our fault"....but, in reality, it is not our fault, because we were no different before marriage than after marriage. They marry us for our "other qualities", which we do not understand at the time.


But the problem with that is that most men do not understand that being a beta boy and washing more dishes will never fix it. 

Them being the way that they are, is the reason that they are in that position, just like OP in this thread. 

If she is not into you, and you can't fix it in a reasonable amount of time, then get out and start over. 

It really is that simple...


----------



## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

TJW said:


> I didn't have reference to cheating. I had reference to premarital experience, and I didn't marry her, thank God, or I would have been in the same situation as the "million" others on this board.
> 
> I didn't make it clear enough. What I wanted to say was that wives may have been quite different when we met them, and were quite different with men other than us. That's how we can be hoodwinked into believing that this is "our fault"....but, in reality, it is not our fault, because we were no different before marriage than after marriage. They marry us for our "other qualities", which we do not understand at the time.


Continue to believe this TJW. See where this blaming mentality gets you. You think that men don't change in marriage too? You just think OP is unlucky and had a bad picker?

This guys wife could be anyone's wife - if you behave in unattractive ways for a long enough period of time and don't show leadership (emotional, family, other) than yes, they will lose attraction and respect. And no - they won't desire you then physically and eventually will lose interest in sex *with you*. Maybe they'll 'starfish' for you or pretend out of obligation but that's not what anyone wants. And eventually those negative experiences will poison the whole relationship until it's so messy and muddy that neither side has any idea anymore what the root problem is or how to fix. Just resentment and anger. That's where this is heading for OP and you can see it in his whiny responses to his wife. She shut the tap off on him to send a message so she's angry too. 

I'm not saying you or OP or any guy (or lady) in this predicament are bad people. I'm sure most mean well and started with best intentions. And yes there are cold frigid wives. And jerk husbands. But there's a dance going on here that neither side knows the steps for.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I haven't read the 5 previous pages of dialog so forgive me for just jumping in with my own thoughts on the OP.

First off, yes it was a blunder to have the Bluetooth blasting it to other areas of the house and exposing others to it involuntarily, but I an so technologically impaired I probably would've done the same thing out of my own ineptness.

My second thought here is what if the roles were reversed??? What if he walked in on her????

If I walked in on my wife spanking to porn, I'd offer her the real thing and hope she would let me watch the show with her!! 

If she turned me away and said she'd rather take matters in her own hand, I'd take that as a very deep and serious rejection. 

If she tucked her tail up between her legs and skunked away in shame like a naughty little boy who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, I would also feel rejected and think she was up to something nefarious and underhanded (no pun intended)

IMHO if one gets caught spanking to porn, the only win-win scenario is to offer them to join you.

And the only win-win scenario if you catch your partner is to offer to join them for the real thing.

Anything else is going to cause resentment and I'll will on both sides.

I haven't read any of the follow-up posts so I don't know what the OP's W has done since the event, but if she's been shaming him or treating him like vermin for trying to relieve some pressure and trying to keep from bothering her for it, then it's time for him to pack bags and let her enjoy her life of celibacy while he finds someone that wants to be with him.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't call porn evil, but it is. I guess your point and OPs is all men have to masturbate... BS!!! Further, you're not a man so you have no idea what men really need!
> ...


My problem with porn is people like you that think it's normal and healthy. At least OPs wife agrees.. it's low class and wrong.

I'm against porn and masturbation because it is a shadow of what married sex is supposed to be... And, yeah it's evil.

I didn't see anywhere that he's "kissing his wife's ass". I suppose you're the alpha male who gets unlimited sex (but also needs and loves his porn). Those two things don't jive.... I suspect you're fully beta and get your needs meet via porn (and then like to pretend your alpha).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The great majority of men masturbate. The majority of women do as well. 

If someone isn't getting their needs met in marriage, and their partner is unwilling to change, what do you suggest? Is masturbating to porn worse than divorcing your wife and leaving your kids? 




CatholicDad said:


> I didn't call porn evil, but it is. I guess your point and OPs is all men have to masturbate... BS!!! Further, you're not a man so you have no idea what men really need!
> 
> Whether you think it's evil or not, it is damaging to marriage when men start going outside the marriage to get their needs meet. Also, we can't assume there isn't a health issue just because it hasn't been diagnosed. If my hormones we're jacked I'd probably go around saying "I don't need sex" too.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

If you want to discuss the ills and morality of porn in general, start a new thread. The thread jack stops now.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.


Then she/they have a responsibility to see a doctor(s) and get it properly diagnosed and treated.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

JP3 said:


> I'm not trying to blame her for me choosing to watch internet porn. If we had a healthy frequency of sex, I wouldn't feel the need to take care of business on my own on occasion. It's that simple. Porn is not my preference. I don't have a porn problem, as you put it. If I had a normal sex life with my wife, I could never see porn again and be perfectly content. It is not natural for a healthy male to go long periods of time without ejaculating. Preferably, that happens by having sex with our wives. My wife has sex with me so infrequently that sexual tension/frustration builds up. Could I choose to suppress it? Sure, but why should I be expected to? Men are visual. Masturbating to the ceiling or a wall in the shower doesn't really do it for me.
> 
> 
> When a husband isn't sensitive, or romantic, or interested in having engaging conversations with his wife, is it sinful for her to watch romantic movies and read romantic books as a substitute? She's filling a void created by him. Would you focus more on telling her to stop wanting romance and attention, or would you focus more on telling him to step it up and take care of his wife's needs more than he is?
> ...


That is a good response.

NEVER be ashamed of or make excuses for your sexual needs and never apologize for being a healthy adult male that wants to have an active sex life.

Your options when faced with a wife that won't/doesn't want to engage with you romantically/sexually are - 

- leave her and find someone else.

-cheat

- obtain open marriage

- take matters into your own hands.

The church ladies will urge you to say Hail Marys and pray on it and then just suck it up.

But the harsh truth here is when the romantic/sexual relationship breaks down, the rest of the relationship will soon follow.

A wife that desires the H and meets his needs is his queen that he places above all others and would take a bullet for her and run into a burning building to save the family without hesitation.

The woman who doesn't - is just another woman that *****es and comains and needs things he doesn't usually want to provide.

When a mans needs aren't even being attempted to meet, he will eventually fill the void and some of those things to fill the void are alcohol/drugs, affairs, delving deeply into his own hobbies/buddies, porn/masturbation and/or ultimately dissolving the marriage.

Yes, you goofed with thebbluetooth. 

And I get that you don't want to live a life of spanking to porn and it is not the way any of us want to live.
No one wants to be a fulltime porn-wanker. But a man has to do something with the build up or it will eventually come out in more damaging and dysfunctional ways.

What you do with your junk is your business and no one else's.

If your wife doesn't want you spanking, then she needs to come to the negotiation table and address the issues. 

If she doesn't want to address your needs and doesn't want to have sex with you anymore, that is her perogative and right.

However, she then has absolutely ZERO right to tell you what you can or can't do with your own genitalia!!

If she doesn't want to be with you, yet shames you or "punishes" you for taking care of yourself, then it's time for her to go. 

She doesn't have to have sex with you if she doesn't want. But if that's the case, she loses all right to your sexuality at all and she can drop the kids off at your new house with your new wife on your custodial days and then she can go back to her house and enjoy her celibacy if that is the life she chooses.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.
> ...


From OPs responses there isn't a health issue other than notintohimenough-itis to make sex a priority/important.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> From OPs responses there isn't a health issue other than notintohimenough-itis to make sex a priority/important.


Nothing said thus far suggests a health issue.

My point is if there is a health issue, then there is a responsibility to address it. 

That is also just being a responsible adult.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> My problem with porn is people like you that think it's normal and healthy. At least OPs wife agrees.. it's low class and wrong.
> 
> I'm against porn and masturbation because it is a shadow of what married sex is supposed to be... And, yeah it's evil.
> 
> I didn't see anywhere that he's "kissing his wife's ass". I suppose you're the alpha male who gets unlimited sex (but also needs and loves his porn). Those two things don't jive.... I suspect you're fully beta and get your needs meet via porn (and then like to pretend your alpha).


Actually, I am the alpha male that gets unlimited sex, on a daily basis. And for me, I don't look at porn hardly ever. I really have no need to, but if I wanted to I would. 

OP's wife, is more than likely completely and totally UNATTRACTED to him, for what ever reason.

And he, like a good little boy that he is, is taking it. 

And just so I can rub it in your judgmental ridiculous face... Last night I was just going to chill, I was at GF's last night, I need to do some stuff at my house. 

And I got a phone call, and she basically TOLD me that I needed to come over. SO the good little boy that I am headed over to a wonderful night of hot sex and soft gentle cuddling...

What did you do last night...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.


----------



## JamesStorm (Jul 25, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Look in the mirror and here is a reference guide of male body shapes created by women to let you know:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny....my wife hates the inverted triangle......lol


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > My problem with porn is people like you that think it's normal and healthy. At least OPs wife agrees.. it's low class and wrong.
> ...


This is irrelevant, but my wife and I took kids to their activities and since she wasn't feeling well I made dinner. I'd say I'm the true alpha because I lead a pack (called a family) while you're out playing around and pretending.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> This is irrelevant, but my wife and I took kids to their activities and since she wasn't feeling well I made dinner. I'd say I'm the true alpha because I lead a pack (called a family) while you're out playing around and pretending.


Yeah, that is what I thought. 

BTW, I have raised my kids already....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

JamesStorm said:


> Funny....my wife hates the inverted triangle......lol


But does she/did she respond sexually to guys with the inverted T and have sex with them?

It's what people actually do that counts and not what they say. 

People have often had sex in private with the exact kind of people they say publicaly that they don't like.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> This is irrelevant, but my wife and I took kids to their activities and since she wasn't feeling well I made dinner. I'd say I'm the true alpha because I lead a pack (called a family) while you're out playing around and pretending.


Ahhhhh, but did you drive or did she? 

Either way, if you were true alpha, she must have given you a BJ after dinner, right? 

Otherwise...you are all talk.

Oh wait, you're the guy that gets a reluctant quickie once a week.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I won't be touching any rulers on this thread lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

JP3 said:


> I've slacked off on some things in response to being sexless. Mostly outside projects like trimming trees she wants thinned out or cut down (we live on 2 wooded acres), landscaping stuff in front of the house, redoing the floor and ceiling in the spare bedroom, etc. Me being passive aggressive, basically.
> 
> As far as "non-elective" responsibilities, I have always carried my fair weight. I take care of kids. I do kids' baths. I clean up after baby. I cook at least half the time. I do dishes. I do 100% my own laundry. She has been working part time, so there are other things she carries more weight with, like kids' laundry.


Just remember, you can't "earn" sex. That's a true myth. You warm the fire, and take it. Some slight humor here.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just remember, you can't "earn" sex. That's a true myth. You warm the fire, and take it. Some slight humor here.


Nope - you are quite right. Ridiculous rhetoric put out here that gave men a vague hope that if they do the dishes and give the kids a story that will get payment in kind later. Drives me crazy to read those posts. It is way more complex and intimate than that. 

As for the porn..lol at the bluetooth. Its Gods way of telling you to work on your relationship..perhaps having a heart to heart, clear the air and then get down to it :smile2:


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

In my opinion, when it gets to this stage, it's too late. But you need to establish what's going on to be 100% sure. My reason would be she is not attracted to you any more. Probably not physically, but as a person. It's a harsh reality, but the quicker you find out the better. You don't want to spend the rest of your life with a person who doesn't love you any more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's not too late by a long shot. She is doing exactly what probably half of all women do across the world. Being uneducated in how to keep a marriage fun and exciting, letting raising kids take over and forgetting to nurture the marriage. And then, because the two are no longer 'dating' and spending hours together just being a couple, the PEA chemicals are gone - which is what females often need to feel like they're in love and hot to trot and WANT to have sex.

This doesn't mean the women are bad people. They're just uneducated in the sociological aspect of how these things work and they're just doing what seems natural in the course of life: you flirt, you date, you marry and have tons of sex, you get pregnant, you get into the rut of raising kids and having more babies...until you forget that part about dating and flirting and having tons of sex. 

Unless one of you is "educated" enough to realize it doesn't have to end, you can still do both, and continues to set up date nights and spend time together without the kids, and you'll still be interested in sex as much as raising the kids. The problem is, most people never hear this stuff or know it instinctively. Luckily, OP is here and can learn.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

turnera said:


> It's not too late by a long shot. She is doing exactly what probably half of all women do across the world. Being uneducated in how to keep a marriage fun and exciting, letting raising kids take over and forgetting to nurture the marriage. And then, because the two are no longer 'dating' and spending hours together just being a couple, the PEA chemicals are gone - which is what females often need to feel like they're in love and hot to trot and WANT to have sex.
> 
> This doesn't mean the women are bad people. They're just uneducated in the sociological aspect of how these things work and they're just doing what seems natural in the course of life: you flirt, you date, you marry and have tons of sex, you get pregnant, you get into the rut of raising kids and having more babies...until you forget that part about dating and flirting and having tons of sex.
> 
> Unless one of you is "educated" enough to realize it doesn't have to end, you can still do both, and continues to set up date nights and spend time together without the kids, and you'll still be interested in sex as much as raising the kids. The problem is, most people never hear this stuff or know it instinctively. Luckily, OP is here and can learn.


This times 100.

Feelings of intimacy and connection attract women to men (along with a few other things.) Treat her like she is the most desirable love in the world and you can't get enough of her--without sex as the end. Do this and sex will come.

Look at her in the eyes. Truly listen. Touch her cheek just because--smile and walk away.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> Did you mistake this wife for your former girlfriend?


No. I have no knowledge of the OP's wife. I only want to provide the benefit of what I learned "the hard way" (no pun intended), and the OP has his own judgement to find any, all, or none of what I offer as germane to his own sitch.

The common element is that the OP is also sexually refused by his wife. There are a number of plausible reasons why this might be, I can only speak to the reasons which existed in my experience.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A


I love this. But its not over until the fat lady sings...and she is tuning up right now *unless* OP grabs his lady, woo's her within an inch of her life, pumps some engery in the right direction, effing talks about WHY he uses porn and learns to verbalise his desires. Its a skill....


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

turnera said:


> It's not too late by a long shot. She is doing exactly what probably half of all women do across the world. Being uneducated in how to keep a marriage fun and exciting, letting raising kids take over and forgetting to nurture the marriage. And then, because the two are no longer 'dating' and spending hours together just being a couple, the PEA chemicals are gone - which is what females often need to feel like they're in love and hot to trot and WANT to have sex.
> 
> This doesn't mean the women are bad people. They're just uneducated in the sociological aspect of how these things work and they're just doing what seems natural in the course of life: you flirt, you date, you marry and have tons of sex, you get pregnant, you get into the rut of raising kids and having more babies...until you forget that part about dating and flirting and having tons of sex.
> 
> Unless one of you is "educated" enough to realize it doesn't have to end, you can still do both, and continues to set up date nights and spend time together without the kids, and you'll still be interested in sex as much as raising the kids. The problem is, most people never hear this stuff or know it instinctively. Luckily, OP is here and can learn.


But see, this takes work, and painting the woman as frigid and hopeless is easier.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> But see, this takes work, and painting the woman as frigid and hopeless is easier.


I agree.

but what bothers me about this situation is her reaction. so if I was freezing out my spouse.....and they were getting their needs met elsewhere.....would I be offended? no.....I would be majorly concerned about the damage my treatment has done to them.

instead...….she get's pissed off a basic need she wont provide and makes him feel like a schmuck.

OP....I would tell her since she is so offended by porn......to keep her happy you will just go get a nice hot young girl friend instead. she sure as hell aint going to turn into a sexual predator and rock your world.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is most certainly her initial, outward reaction.

That said, I wonder what crossed her mind when she laid down in bed that night. If she is at least somewhat emotionally healthy, I bet she knew her lack of effort towards his needs had a part to play.


x598 said:


> I agree.
> 
> but what bothers me about this situation is her reaction. so if I was freezing out my spouse.....and they were getting their needs met elsewhere.....would I be offended? no.....I would be majorly concerned about the damage my treatment has done to them.
> 
> ...


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> It is most certainly her initial, outward reaction.
> 
> That said, I wonder what crossed her mind when she laid down in bed that night. If she is at least somewhat emotionally healthy, I bet she knew her lack of effort towards his needs had a part to play.


More likely she thinks "see, I was correct to turn him down. He is a pervert. No sex for him until he gets his head on straight." Humans are well known to rationalize why they are justified to keep doing what they want to do.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BigDigg said:


> JP3 - Trust me, she gets it. She doesn't care and basically told you as much if you were really listening ("go masturbate in the shower if you need it and don't bother me"). Pay very close attention to your actions here as they are unattractive - she has you in a position of having to defend and explain and seek her approval. She's treating you like a child. If you fail this test (hint: it is a test) she will continue to lose attraction.
> 
> She doesn't want another child or someone who shows low value by kissing her ***.
> 
> My 2 cents anyway. Best of luck. Pulling for you.


I get what you're saying here, but you are basing it on some assumptions. What did I do/say in this incident that was a**-kissing?

I posted that I apologized for the Bluetooth audio filling part of the house with porn sounds. Same apology as if it'd been a late night movie blaring or music. I never apologized to her for looking at porn. Since the incident, I haven't acted any differently than if she'd never caught me. No sheepish or hand-in-the-cookie-jar behavior. 

But yes, I agree, we get "tested" more than we initially realized we would.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just remember, you can't "earn" sex. That's a true myth. You warm the fire, and take it. Some slight humor here.


Never bought into that philosophy. I was answering a question that someone had asked about if I was in general a good husband/dad. I even stated somewhere in the thread that sex isn't a "treat" men get for being good boys. No more than me going to work or having a conversation with my wife is a treat for her.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Actually, I am the alpha male that gets unlimited sex, on a daily basis. And for me, I don't look at porn hardly ever. I really have no need to, but if I wanted to I would.
> 
> OP's wife, is more than likely completely and totally UNATTRACTED to him, for what ever reason.
> 
> And he, like a good little boy that he is, is taking it.


Let me guess--you're 5'7" and drive a jacked up full size pick up truck... 



BluesPower said:


> And just so I can rub it in your judgmental ridiculous face... Last night I was just going to chill, I was at GF's last night, I need to do some stuff at my house.
> 
> And I got a phone call, and she basically TOLD me that I needed to come over. SO the good little boy that I am headed over to a wonderful night of hot sex and soft gentle cuddling...


Girlfriend? So, super Alpha Male is either divorced or has never been married??? You've got a lot of credibility to be commenting in this thread with these comments.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

JP3 said:


> Let me guess--you're 5'7" and drive a jacked up full size pick up truck...
> 
> Girlfriend? So, super Alpha Male is either divorced or has never been married??? You've got a lot of credibility to be commenting in this thread with these comments.


No actually if you had taken time to look I was responding to the jackass that is so judgmental about ANYONE looking at porn. 

But since you went there, 6'1" 230, 54 YO, Still getting laid on a daily basis, divorced raised 3 kids alone, have had too many women probably, Badass local musician and a professional, and I have never put up with any of the crap you have put up with in my life. 

And I find it interesting the that you rail against everyone here and you are the one that posted and you are the one in the sexless marriage...


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> No actually if you had taken time to look I was responding to the jackass that is so judgmental about ANYONE looking at porn.
> 
> But since you went there, 6'1" 230, 54 YO, Still getting laid on a daily basis, divorced raised 3 kids alone, have had too many women probably, Badass local musician and a professional, and I have never put up with any of the crap you have put up with in my life.
> 
> And I find it interesting the that you rail against everyone here and you are the one that posted and you are the one in the sexless marriage...


I'm well aware whom you were addressing with those comments, but you were taking digs at me nonetheless. 



BluesPower said:


> This guy is in a sexless marriage because he would rather kiss his wife's ass than be a man.





BluesPower said:


> OP's wife, is more than likely completely and totally UNATTRACTED to him, for what ever reason.
> 
> And he, like a good little boy that he is, is taking it.


You're talking about getting sex all the time from your girlfriend. That's great. Almost every guy who complains about not getting sex in his marriage will tell you she gave him plenty of sex when she was just a girlfriend. If all of us hadn't been getting frequent sex from our girlfriends then none of us would have married them. Marry this sex-machine girlfriend and then you can brag about yourself in a few years. Double brag is you have kids with her.


If you were being a proper alpha male, then why did you get divorced?


I just don't understand your mindset that if anything is wrong with a marriage, then by default it's because the man obviously isn't being "alpha male enough".


And, as a footnote, putting the word "badass" in front of "local musician" is a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you done, @JP3?

I hope you aren't that thin skinned with your wife. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

JP3 said:


> I'm well aware whom you were addressing with those comments, but you were taking digs at me nonetheless.
> 
> You're talking about getting sex all the time from your girlfriend. That's great. Almost every guy who complains about not getting sex in his marriage will tell you she gave him plenty of sex when she was just a girlfriend. If all of us hadn't been getting frequent sex from our girlfriends then none of us would have married them. Marry this sex-machine girlfriend and then you can brag about yourself in a few years. Double brag is you have kids with her.
> 
> ...


Like far side said right below your latest post I hope you are not this thin skinned with your wife or anyone else in your life. 

So yes, I was taking digs at you are your situation. You see, you don't want to look at what is actually going on in your life and your sex life. And you have been married what, less than 10 years? 

So like I said, you are in a sexless marriage and I guess you don't even realize it. I am way older than you and I have never in my entire life been in any type of sexless marriage or sexless relationship. 

But if it makes you feel better to dig at me and the other people that are trying to wake you up, well that is fine, I am not the one that is sexless...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> More likely she thinks "see, I was correct to turn him down. He is a pervert. No sex for him until he gets his head on straight." Humans are well known to rationalize why they are justified to keep doing what they want to do.


I dont see why so many here are presupposing what the OP's wife is thinking. Here is one

"i am tired to the teeth of holding it together, tired of his lack of love, tired of his constant focus on himself and his needs, tired of his selfishness, tired of having to handle the kids alone, tired of ................all of which makes for great enthusiasm for sex...........NOT

It is always easy to blame the wife but one must first look at the damage you OP have caused, what have YOU done to repair the damage you have caused?


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

JP3 said:


> *Anyway, if any of you are wives who have lost interest in sex, it is probably having some deep rippling effects on your husband. When your wife stops having sex with you, it affects your self-esteem, your overall mood, your motivation, and really your identity of your own masculinity. *


You sound so entitled here. Of course may have deep rippling effects on the husband but have you considered how neglect, lack of love, failure to 'see' your wife, etc can have deep rippling effects on the wife, emotionally wounding her and hurting her. How have you contributed to the state of your marriage?

First clue, in what you say, have you actually treated her with love, care attention? Or is your first thought only youself and your physical needs? 
A woman will open herself up to her man who treats her like his Queen. Don't expect to be treated like a King if you treat your woman like you can do whatever you like and treat her whichever way you like. Look at yourself first.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Bluespower, you'd seem to be a cool enough guy if you weren't a porn user. I think it's tacky to defend porn on a thread where OPs marriage has been done some damage because of it. 

After all, OPs wife is against porn and now has another reason to emotionally detach- her hubby made wedding vows and got caught breaking them (even if only in a fantasy sense). 

You can call me judgemental, but I happen to believe wedding vows mean something. I think the true alpha honors his word at all costs, like the vow OP made to his wife.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Bluespower, you'd seem to be a cool enough guy if you weren't a porn user. I think it's tacky to defend porn on a thread where OPs marriage has been done some damage because of it.
> 
> After all, OPs wife is against porn and now has another reason to emotionally detach- her hubby made wedding vows and got caught breaking them (even if only in a fantasy sense).
> 
> You can call me judgemental, but I happen to believe wedding vows mean something. I think the true alpha honors his word at all costs, like the vow OP made to his wife.


 How about the effect it has on him when she chooses to deprive him of 6? I am not defending pornographia, but you seem so clouded by your personal trigger over pornography that you do not understand just what it does to a man when the woman who vowed to love him will not be intimate with him.


----------



## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

JP3 said:


> I get what you're saying here, but you are basing it on some assumptions. What did I do/say in this incident that was a**-kissing?


The fact that you even entertained the conversation to begin with...that you've allowed your marriage to get to this dark place without putting up a fight...that you've shrugged this flash point off and all's good next day. No it's not OK. You shouldn't be OK with this. 

Kissing her ***? It's not what you've said and done - it's what you *haven't* said or done. All of this...it's her operating from a position of power/authority and dictating this marriage strictly on her terms without any thought or concern or empathy for your needs. She gets what she needs from you and you get to be grateful she hasn't left. You are implicitly kissing her *** when you do nothing about this and accept it. In essence you are saying to her "I get it sweetie and I promise I won't be too loud and burden you anymore with my needs. Just really happy you're still willing to put up with me. I don't deserve anyone better than you so don't worry a bit and i'll just be in the shower and really quiet from now on."


----------



## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Are you done, @JP3?
> 
> I hope you aren't that thin skinned with your wife.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


What did I say that makes me sound thin skinned? The guy posts a couple digs at me without elaboration, brags about how awesome he is, and I call him out on it.


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

aine said:


> First clue, in what you say, have you actually treated her with love, care attention? Or is your first thought only youself and your physical needs?
> A woman will open herself up to her man who treats her like his Queen. Don't expect to be treated like a King if you treat your woman like you can do whatever you like and treat her whichever way you like. Look at yourself first.


You're making a lot of stereotypical assumptions, playing off of the old narrative of poor wife neglected by insensitive, unaffectionate husband who comes home from work and plops in front of football on tv while she slaves over the stove with a baby in arm. I'm not some 22-yr-old just figuring women out. I was asked several pages ago if I was being a good husband and father. I am. I'm by no means Mr. Perfect, but I am good with kids and more than pull my share of the load with them. I was a single parent for several years before my wife and I met. I know how to take care of kids and am good at it. I cook and clean up afterwards. I bring home flowers. I keep the kids quiet and occupied on Saturday morning so mommy can sleep in. 




If a woman posts that her husband has stopped being romantic and stopped showing her affection, would you question her selfishness? 


Having sex once or twice a week is not being treated like a king.


----------



## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BigDigg said:


> it's what you *haven't* said or done. All of this...it's her operating from a position of power/authority and dictating this marriage strictly on her terms without any thought or concern or empathy for your needs. She gets what she needs from you and you get to be grateful she hasn't left. You are implicitly kissing her *** when you do nothing about this and accept it. In essence you are saying to her "I get it sweetie and I promise I won't be too loud and burden you anymore with my needs. Just really happy you're still willing to put up with me. I don't deserve anyone better than you so don't worry a bit and i'll just be in the shower and really quiet from now on."


You don't know what has and has not been said. 

So tell me, Dr. Phil, if you were in this situation of infrequent sex, how would YOU have handled it?


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## JP3 (Sep 19, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Like far side said right below your latest post I hope you are not this thin skinned with your wife or anyone else in your life.
> 
> So yes, I was taking digs at you are your situation. You see, you don't want to look at what is actually going on in your life and your sex life. And you have been married what, less than 10 years?
> 
> ...


You come in fluffing your feathers and tooting your horn while taking digs. Me taking a dig back is not being thin skinned. It's me calling BS on your Super Awesome Alpha Male boasting. If you can't be challenged without calling the other person thin skinned, then I suppose that makes you thin skinned and a beta in disguise?

You also didn't answer my question as to why you got divorced.

You're like a decade older than me. Hardly "way older".




BluesPower said:


> , I am not the one that is sexless...


You're also not the one who is married with two preschool aged children.


----------



## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

JP3 said:


> You don't know what has and has not been said.
> 
> So tell me, Dr. Phil, if you were in this situation of infrequent sex, how would YOU have handled it?


Why attack me? I'm actually trying to help here, not bragging or rubbing your nose in this with glee. You *SHOULD* be angry but not at the posters here trying to help. You should be angry at the marriage that *YOU* have allowed to develop. Angry at yourself for not seeing this earlier and taking action. Angry for not being the kind of man that controls his fate and leads his family. Believe me there isn't a day gone by where this topic doesn't come up on these boards and you're no special unique snowflake. I get no joy in hearing or responding to these but genuinely want to help people like you. I wish it wasn't so for you...

I think the universal response your getting (not just from me) is that your sex life is non-existent because your wife isn't attracted to you and doesn't respect you. Those are really tough words to hear so I get it...but it's necessary to come to accept this. Only then can you figure out why that is and attack that root problem. And you have to be willing to consider that you have done things and behaved in ways that have caused your wife to lose attraction to you over time. You can only control you in this life. 

Here's the thing - I think you handled this situation OK considering you had no idea what was going on. But that's just one small battle in a 'war' with your wife that's been going on for a long time...long before the sex dried up even. You didn't even know you were at war did you? She's been testing you forever and you've failed more than you've passed and over time that's caused her to lose attraction because you don't 'get it'. And by accepting your meager marriage and dead bedroom she's also lost respect. You can't respect someone who doesn't respect themselves.

How would I have handled this? I wouldn't have even allowed the conversation. Doing so caused you to defend yourself while taking an implied passive aggressive swipe at her (I did this BECAUSE of you). Whether you said this overtly or not doesn't matter. She sees you as a whiny child acting out or pouting, even if you don't think you are. And that just reaffirms her view in her mind that you are unworthy to her and she's justified in her lack of attraction to you. 

It's time to put down the pitchfork here and take your head out of the sand. If you want to save your marriage accept where it is today and get ready to be introspective to a fault. No stone left unturned. And be ready to really change and make an effort to improve and be the kind of man that your wife was once attracted to. Whether you stay with her or find someone new...for yourself...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

You're reaching. And on the off-chance she does (1) she's kept it a secret which doesn't help, and (2) there are many forms of sex. If, let's say, she's having gyno issues then oral and manual stimulation are options.



CatholicDad said:


> It ain't dead yet... In sickness and in health. Maybe she has a legitimate, unknown health reason.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

one good way to end a war is to determine what the enemy is and team up against it. Most of the trouble in this marriage is caused by sharing a bed with a 4 year old. Now the 4 year old is not the enemy. The wife is not the enemy. The husband is not the enemy. The Porn is not the enemy, yet. The enemy is the lack of couple only bedtime. The wife doesn't need a therapist. The 4 year old needs a therapist. There needs to be a coordinated effort to get this kid to sleep in his/her own room. It doesn't start with mom in bed with kid and dad in another room. It starts with mom and dad and outside help if necessary working with a smart cooperative plan to achieve the goal.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Most of the trouble in this marriage is caused by sharing a bed with a 4 year old.


Consider for a second that the 4-yr old is a human shield for the wife. That she wants the child there so that she doesn't have to interact with her husband...

No - the 4 yr old doesn't need a therapist. That's crazy. The 4 yr old needs parents with some backbone and resolve. I have two kids and remember the challenge. My niece gave a huge fight to my brother and SiL. They picked a weekend and escorted the child back to their room every single time she came running in. Took all night for two days before she finally gave up. Epic battle of wills. But one any parent can and should win easily (if with bloodshot eyes).


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP, I can see through every one of your posts the reason, or one of the reasons why your wife doesn't want to have sex with you: you're probably insufferable to deal with. No wonder why she displays little attraction towards you. Most probably, out of marital obligation is that she consents to sex with you.

Per your original post: you have kept at her for a few years about the no sex issue. I can understand at the beginning, but after a few years?? You most sound like one of those little chihuahuas barking, to the point that now your nagging most be background noise to her.

Men that are sure of themselves, that are strong and direct. Men that do not issue ultimatums, but give an outcome to the issue and make sure the other person is clear that what is being said is to happen are the men that get results, one way or another.

You should do that. Do not give ultimatums that you will not follow through. Mean what you said.

So, what are you gonna do about it? Keep barking or present to your wife your needs that need to be fulfilled by her, to be followed with what will you do if she doesn't want to. Your choices:
1. She accepts and fulfill. Everyone happy.
2. She doesn't accept. You're unhappy= consequences (you decide consequences and follow through).
3. Same as number 2, but you are not a man strong enough to impose the consequences= stop barking, being passive/agressive and just accept the situation. Live, miserable ever after in a sexless marriage.

When my first wife stopped wanting to have sex with me, three months later of no sex, I dumped her, got a divorce, and now I live happily ever after having sex anytime my body asks for it with a partner that is more than happy to oblige.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

JP3 said:


> Having sex once or twice a week is not being treated like a king.


Maybe not, but once or twice a week is NOT a sexless marriage! You may wish it was more, but this doesn't qualify as sexless, sorry! This was the frequency in my marriage and I have to tell you I built up a LOT of resentment toward my XH because he would come at me about how we NEVER had sex. I was put down and insulted constantly over it and all that does is make you NOT want to do it at all. Just some food for thought.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Two things to note:

First, to those who wonder why a person would stay with a spouse to whom he or she was no longer attracted, you have your answer. OP's wife wants someone to maintain the home (redo ceilings, fell trees on their acreage) and pay bills (she works part-time).

Two, you can't make anyone want sex. All you can do is provide an environment conducive to having your needs met. Then, if your partner doesn't respond, you hold them accountable and work on meeting your own needs.

The OP just needs to take a stand and tell his wife this is unacceptable. She can have him, or her sexless life, but not both. And good luck keeping a two-acre spread on her own.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> JP3 said:
> 
> 
> > I've slacked off on some things in response to being sexless. Mostly outside projects like trimming trees she wants thinned out or cut down (we live on 2 wooded acres), landscaping stuff in front of the house, redoing the floor and ceiling in the spare bedroom, etc. Me being passive aggressive, basically.
> ...


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> JP3 said:
> 
> 
> > Having sex once or twice a week is not being treated like a king.
> ...


In the opening post he says sex is about once every 5 to 8 weeks.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Livvie said:


> In the opening post he says sex is about *once every 5 to 8 weeks*.


Yep, so at best it is less than once a month. At worst it is every OTHER month.

If a man only had conversation with his wife or helped with the kids once every other month, she'd be livid.

Sex is to men what conversation and family support is to women.

There are 10,080 minutes in a week. You can have some great sex in 15 minutes. Let's bump it up to 30 in case you count getting in the mood, washing up blah blah.

You are telling me a woman can't find 60-90 minutes out of 10,080 for her husband??????


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Bluespower, you'd seem to be a cool enough guy if you weren't a porn user. I think it's tacky to defend porn on a thread where OPs marriage has been done some damage because of it.
> ...


Fair enough, but OP using porn as a marital aid is low class lie and is taking his marriage in the wrong direction. OP needs to take this to heart.

She may love him dearly but perhaps her situation is more complex than we know... Perhaps he's making it worse by turning away.

PS I understand blue balls more than you ever will or could. My wife loves me I'm certain, but real life, health problems, stress, and other things can and do interfere with having 6. Men have to suck it up and move forward (porn is NOT the remedy).


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > CatholicDad said:
> ...


I wish you'd stop your preaching about porn. Really really really really.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> Fair enough, but *OP using porn as a marital aid is low class* lie and...





CatholicDad said:


> *taking his marriage in the wrong direction*.





CatholicDad said:


> *OP needs to take this to heart*.





CatholicDad said:


> She may love him dearly but perhaps her situation is more complex than we know... *Perhaps he's making it worse by turning away.*


Judgmental much? 

What is he to take to heart exactly? 

That he is low class and that in your esteemed opinion is ruining his marriage? 

That he is turning away from her? 

And I find the following statement particularly interesting. The subconscious mind at work.



CatholicDad said:


> PS I understand blue balls more than you ever will or could. My wife loves me *I'm certain, but real life, health problems, stress, and other things can and do interfere with having 6.* Men have to suck it up and move forward (porn is NOT the remedy).


OP, I'd be careful about accepting the advice to just suck up and take your sexless marriage like a man and turn away from the devil, errr...I mean porn, from someone who won't even spell SEX.


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Bluespower, you'd seem to be a cool enough guy if you weren't a porn user. I think it's tacky to defend porn on a thread where OPs marriage has been done some damage because of it.
> 
> After all, OPs wife is against porn and now has another reason to emotionally detach- her hubby made wedding vows and got caught breaking them (even if only in a fantasy sense).
> 
> You can call me judgemental, but I happen to believe wedding vows mean something. I think the true alpha honors his word at all costs, like the vow OP made to his wife.



Is porn a good thing in marriage? Probably not in most cases but to each his own. I think her commitment to her vows are the more important subject. She is basically saying “ I’m not having sex with you and I expect you to stay here, be a husband and father and not have your needs met”. Sounds like she broke her vows.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Tron said:


> Judgmental much?
> 
> What is he to take to heart exactly?
> 
> ...


I agree with the sentiment, but in CD's defense, he may have been using talk-to-text. I use it a lot, and no matter how I pronounce it, my phone will NOT spell out sex. It always corrects to 6.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

You're fixating on the really long shots here, which is unhelpful. As far as situations go, there are only two which justify prolonged low sex frequency:
* family emergency / serious illness
* physical separation (like being deployed in the military).

Otherwise, this issue persists simply because either or both spouses don't care enough to make its resolution a priority.

That is the issue in its entirety. You are taking something very straightforward and throwing a bunch of distractions in there. 

Plus, Christianity does not mean you have to accept a sexless marriage. Your suggestion that the OP must endure holds no water.



CatholicDad said:


> She may love him dearly but perhaps her situation is more complex than we know... Perhaps he's making it worse by turning away.
> 
> PS I understand blue balls more than you ever will or could. My wife loves me I'm certain, but real life, health problems, stress, and other things can and do interfere with having 6. Men have to suck it up and move forward (porn is NOT the remedy).


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Exactly right. Anybody who claims they are so busy they cannot devote <1% of a week to sex is 99.99% lying or delusional.



personofinterest said:


> Yep, so at best it is less than once a month. At worst it is every OTHER month.
> 
> If a man only had conversation with his wife or helped with the kids once every other month, she'd be livid.
> 
> ...


----------



## JamesStorm (Jul 25, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> But does she/did she respond sexually to guys with the inverted T and have sex with them?
> 
> It's what people actually do that counts and not what they say.
> 
> People have often had sex in private with the exact kind of people they say publicaly that they don't like.


Actually no, she didn't....the guys I am aware of from her previous relationships were not Inverted T. So I say that from actual knowledge of the body type she likes as well as what she has said. Her actions do back her words on this topic...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

personofinterest said:


> Yep, so at best it is less than once a month. At worst it is every OTHER month.
> 
> If a man only had conversation with his wife or helped with the kids once every other month, she'd be livid.
> 
> ...


But SHOULD she? Just because a man has a higher sex drive, typically, doesn't mean the woman is obligated to scratch that itch, if SHE isn't getting HER needs met.

I told my DH that I'd be happy never having sex again, because I'm so unhappy with his participation in the REST of our life. I then said but if you're going to expect sex, and you're not going to address the elephant in the room - that for some reason you won't take care of your own home - the least you could do is give me something that pleasures ME physically - a back rub or a foot rub. So he gets sex once a week and I get some sort of quick massage.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

HDC said:


> Is porn a good thing in marriage? Probably not in most cases but to each his own. I think her commitment to her vows are the more important subject. She is basically saying “ I’m not having sex with you and I expect you to stay here, be a husband and father and not have your needs met”. Sounds like she broke her vows.


Back when my marriage was decent and equal, DH and I used to go to the porn stores and buy videos and toys and clothes. The videos would help me get in the mood, we'd watch them together and laugh at how bad they were, and how unrealistic, and then we'd have sex. 

That said, I'm pretty sure he never went and used them without me - then again, that's because he's been having sex at least once a week, if not more, for 40 years.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

DTO said:


> You're fixating on the really long shots here, which is unhelpful. As far as situations go, there are only two which justify prolonged low sex frequency:
> * family emergency / serious illness
> * physical separation (like being deployed in the military).
> 
> ...


DTO! Where ya been?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Fair enough, but OP using porn as a marital aid is low class lie and is taking his marriage in the wrong direction. OP needs to take this to heart.
> 
> She may love him dearly but perhaps her situation is more complex than we know... Perhaps he's making it worse by turning away.
> 
> PS I understand blue balls more than you ever will or could. My wife loves me I'm certain, but real life, health problems, stress, and other things can and do interfere with having 6. Men have to suck it up and move forward (porn is NOT the remedy).


Actually men don't "have to suck it up" and move forward. Balancing the multiple important components in a loving marriage includes balancing sex, taken with the whole, yes.

But.

When indicators lean towards periods of and finally sex can be as frequent as desired but W blocks on all fronts, the sucking it up has gone on long enough and all need to realize it may not be the desired "normal" then it may be action and decision time. 

Sucking it up as a preferred state so to speak isn't intended to be a forever condition in circumstance where there are options for improvement in a couples relationship. 

As said in multiple threads, and I'm a believer- the resentment will manifest in other relationship harming situations. 

IE pick your poison or help brew an antidote. 

Choose, then drink fully without complaints.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

turnera said:


> But SHOULD she? Just because a man has a higher sex drive, typically, doesn't mean the woman is obligated to scratch that itch, if SHE isn't getting HER needs met.
> 
> I told my DH that I'd be happy never having sex again, because I'm so unhappy with his participation in the REST of our life. I then said but if you're going to expect sex, and you're not going to address the elephant in the room - that for some reason you won't take care of your own home - the least you could do is give me something that pleasures ME physically - a back rub or a foot rub. So he gets sex once a week and I get some sort of quick massage.


In the specific case of YOUR husband, I would say this makes absolute sense. He's not an idiot. He knows exactly what pushes your buttons, exactly what drives you crazy, exactly what you need, and he chooses not to do any of it. Over long term. He has basically CHOSEN to erode your love and attraction. In a sense, he has CHOSEN to be sexless.

I think for most people, neither one intentionally does that. In the case on this thread, I get the idea that the OP isn't. So I don't understand his wife's thinking at all.

But it can be a chicken/egg thing. Maybe he would be more motivated to meet her needs if he wasn't climbing the wall all the time. Maybe she would be more likely to jump him if he met her needs. This is where I default to the psychologist Harley on this. Cleaning dishes or paying bills or recreation are not intimate needs. Sex is. So while I would be okay with a husband who is a slob (even though I wouldn't like it) I couldn't live with a husband who doesn't want sex, because though I have a need for both those things, cleaning I can figure out. Sex can be him or nothing, and I'd die emotionally without it.

In your case, I think the fact that your husband gets his itched scratched once a week is pretty generous considering all he puts you through. And I say that as an every day sex kinda woman


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I wish you'd stop your preaching about porn. Really really really really.


He is just projecting his own life struggles onto others.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Sucking it up as a preferred state so to speak isn't intended to be a forever condition in circumstance where there are options for improvement in a couples relationship.


Exactly. I can "suck it up" during a difficult pregnancy, or a deployment, or illness, a time of crisis, etc. Because those things have an end date typically.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LOL! Didn't know anyone noticed I was not around a whole bunch.

I've just been busy with life. Job has been busy (busy season and short one on a three-man team). That, my home/kid, and a couple of weekends out of town kept me running.

I did bring a personal issue to TAM (General Relationship Questions); so, I haven't been a ghost around here.



turnera said:


> DTO! Where ya been?


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > I wish you'd stop your preaching about porn. Really really really really.
> ...


Not a preacher but my opinion is valid and I will restate that porn destroys men and marriage and is degrading to women.

So Livvie and Bad Santa... defend porn all you want but at the end of the day this is another marriage harmed by it, even if OPs wife harmed the marriage first.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> Not a preacher but my opinion is valid and I will restate that porn destroys men and marriage and is degrading to women.
> 
> So Livvie and Bad Santa... defend porn all you want but at the end of the day this is another marriage harmed by it, even if OPs wife harmed the marriage first.


The damage was already done bro. 

And the Earth would break in half before the OPs W ever admits a damn thing. 

JMHO.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Not a preacher but my opinion is valid and I will restate that porn destroys men and marriage and is degrading to women.
> 
> So Livvie and Bad Santa... defend porn all you want but at the end of the day this is another marriage harmed by it, even if OPs wife harmed the marriage first.


 @CatholicDad have you ever tried to say something nice about porn? 

I'll go first. The debate on porn and free speech is a struggle that helps us to better understand and respect our freedoms. Porn is something that teaches and reminds us how vulnerable we are so that we can hopefully discuss it in our marriages as adults and work together with a spouse on making ourselves better because of it. Pharmaceutical companies sometimes use porn to better understand the side effects of various drugs on human arousal so that hopefully new innovations can be made that do not starve marriages of intimacy. 

Your turn...

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Not a preacher but my opinion is valid as an *opinion only*, and _an extremely narrow one at that_, and I will restate that _some _porn destroys _some _men and _some _marriage and _some porn_ is degrading to women. (including the porn made by women for women?)
> 
> So Livvie and Bad Santa... defend porn all you want but at the end of the day this is another damaged marriage which could have been harmed by it, even if OPs wife harmed the marriage first, but that's really just speculative wankery knowing the damage was already done.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Methinks you will receive nothing but crickets from CatholicDad.

After all, he is on a mission from God.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

badsanta said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Not a preacher but my opinion is valid and I will restate that porn destroys men and marriage and is degrading to women.
> ...


I could, but I would prefer an intellectual like yourself admit to the damage it causes to marriage, men, women or children. That's more worthy of our time than a free speech or pharmaceutical testing discussion and more relevant to this thread.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I could, but I would prefer an intellectual like yourself admit to the damage it causes to marriage, men, women or children. That's more worthy of our time than a free speech or pharmaceutical testing discussion and more relevant to this thread.


CD, it may have caused problems in your marriage, it may do that for others. But your dogmatic approach is not getting your message across. 

You know, those that watch porn are exercising free will, something the creator gave all of us. For some it is porn, for some it is alcohol, or drugs, or heaven forbid, sex...

Are you able to look past the OP's original post, not that he will be back, and see that he is yet another weak man, putting up with a sexless marriage? I am sure yours is not sexless, esp with your stance on porn. 

I mean the guy wants to rub one out every now and then. 

Have your thought about smoking a Joint every now and then, you know, just to relax???


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I could, but I would prefer an intellectual like yourself admit to the damage it causes to marriage, men, women or children. That's more worthy of our time than a free speech or pharmaceutical testing discussion and more relevant to this thread.


Fair enough... 

Porn is filmed for the purpose of profit. Perhaps there are rare exceptions that are produced for the sake of art but that content eventually finds it way into the hands of someone seeking to profit from it.

Once explicit forms of someone's sexuality are used publicly for profit, that person will probably never be able to live a normal life without having to keep a low profile. Even real estate used for filming porn can be problematic:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mon...lists-paradise-valley-mansion-sale/373799002/


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

How about you guys take the porn debate to it's own thread instead of jacking this one.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> How about you guys take the porn debate to it's own thread instead of jacking this one.


Well actually the debate on how porn can destroy a marriage, family, and degrade women is rather valid in this thread according to the OP.




JP3 said:


> Now she's all hurt and offended. No doubt I'm addicted to porn, and I've basically been lying about it, sneaking around, which is essentially a form of cheating.
> 
> I told her every man who is deprived sex will eventually watch porn. *She acted like I was way off with that statement. (Am I???) *


While @JP3 has not logged in in about he week, it is important for him to understand why his wife is upset to perhaps help him reconcile. 

As for my wife, she feels porn is synonymous with prostitution. Any married man that visits a prostitute would easily be labeled a cheater. While watching a video of a prostitute may not seem as risky, to many women it is just the same because of their spouse's intentions while doing it. 

As for how porn can destroy people, I think it is far more harmful to the individuals depicted in porn than it is to the viewer. But without the viewer there would be no porn, so it takes two and both are guilty for any harm done. A married couple that stumble with access to porn can recover, but those with videos all over the internet have much more serious problems.

It is also valid to understand the potential benefits of porn in society as well, simply because there is always more than one side to any debate. 

So I am not jacking this thread! I and @CatholicDad are replying to a topic relevant and a question explicitly asked by the OP. 


Regards, 
Badsanta


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> CD, it may have caused problems in your marriage, it may do that for others. But your dogmatic approach is not getting your message across.
> 
> You know, those that watch porn are exercising free will, something the creator gave all of us. For some it is porn, for some it is alcohol, or drugs, or heaven forbid, sex...
> 
> ...


I have met many Christians like CD. Getting the message heard in a manner that might change someone's life is not the goal. The goal is to shame and shout as loudly as possible. They don't CARE how their message comes across. In fact, the more they offend, the more spiritual they deem themselves.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> *Well actually the debate on how porn can destroy a marriage, family, and degrade women is rather valid in this thread according to the OP.*
> 
> While @JP3 has not logged in in about he week, it is important for him to understand why his wife is upset to perhaps help him reconcile.
> 
> ...


Really?



JP3 said:


> I get what you're saying here, but you are basing it on some assumptions. What did I do/say in this incident that was a**-kissing?
> 
> *I posted that I apologized for the Bluetooth audio filling part of the house with porn sounds. Same apology as if it'd been a late night movie blaring or music. I never apologized to her for looking at porn. Since the incident, I haven't acted any differently than if she'd never caught me. No sheepish or hand-in-the-cookie-jar behavior. *
> 
> But yes, I agree, we get "tested" more than we initially realized we would.


Maybe I missed where he said what you say he said, if so feel free to quote it to me. If not, this porn discussion is a thread jack.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I have met many Christians like CD. Getting the message heard in a manner that might change someone's life is not the goal. The goal is to shame and shout as loudly as possible. They don't CARE how their message comes across. In fact, the more they offend, the more spiritual they deem themselves.


I completely agree with you feeling that way. I have met many people like that in my life as well. 

Now, is CD like that? maybe, maybe not. I think he means well, but some of us have that dog with a bone mentality, I have probably done that myself before. 

Not all Christians are like that. But they as well as anyone, have the right to feel whatever way that they want to. 

I am not a big porn guy, and when on occasion I do need to rub one out, I look at porn. Mostly amateur stuff. But it is not a thing for me. I actually do my best to "not" have to do that because GF like volume. But if we are apart more than 2 days, what is a man supposed to do? 

But the thing about porn, is everyone can have their opinion. For me, as a more libertarian politically, part of me just does not care. Same with prostitution, I just don't care, to an extent. 

The problem comes when the women, or men, that are filming porn or involved in prostitution are coerced at any level. And it does happen. 

So even for me, it is a confusing issue. 

With regard to this thread, like I said from the beginning, his problem is not that he got caught watching porn, (which the concept of a grown man getting caught is silly to me). 

His problem is that he accepts a sexless marriage and apparently his wife's condemnation of him actually watching porn. 

Who lives like that?????


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> She'sStillGotIt said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the chuckle about the evils of porn and what a vile heathen the OP is for daring to view wicked and immoral porn during his 'private time.' Perhaps he'll realize the error of his ways and next time, he'll put on the National Geographic channel and watch a documentary on the life cycle of the Arctic Hare while he's doing his thing. <a href="https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)" ></a>
> ...




Bro, we've all been over this. Your religious views limit what you find acceptable. Others don't share your strict morals. Stop banging your head against the wall looking for evil where it doesn't exist and understand that you can't paint all relationships in one broad stroke. (pun intended...)

And yes, some men have to masturbate (Us professionals do NOT have time for that much laundry). And I'm pretty sure that @She'sStillGotIt has a very good understanding of men's needs, even without being one. Probably much more so that you do. Think about it.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> My problem with porn is people like you that think it's normal and healthy. At least OPs wife agrees.. it's low class and wrong.


It is normal and healthy for him. It would not be for you.



> I'm against porn and masturbation because it is a shadow of what married sex is supposed to be... And, yeah it's evil.



Agreed that sex is better than porn, but that does not explain the moral assignment. Please explain why porn is evil.




> I didn't see anywhere that he's "kissing his wife's ass". I suppose you're the alpha male who gets unlimited sex (but also needs and loves his porn). Those two things don't jive....



They can certainly jive. You just have to be open minded. Maybe they watch porn together... :smile2:


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> BluesPower said:
> 
> 
> > CD, it may have caused problems in your marriage, it may do that for others. But your dogmatic approach is not getting your message across.
> ...


Sorry I'm so offensive to you, but I guess I would like to shame men into avoiding porn. I grew up with porn (luckily, Playboy was mostly the extent of that) and as a young man I DO feel like it did damage to me, despite that I believe myself fully recovered decades later. My larger concern is the damage done to adolescent boys and young men who access it during their formative years and perhaps never recover. I probably shout louder because I would swear that *no one* on TAM has ever acknowledged these issues. In fact, it is surprising that I am met only by personal attacks (or attacks on the church) whenever I dare mention my opinion about porn. I think it is a major cultural problem that men and boys can access porn in two seconds from anywhere. It also makes me mad that husbands don't need their wives for sex and when men so quickly turn away from their wives... I think OP should just take on his frustration and do everything possible to figure out his marital issues so they can heal and get back to an actual sex life because their family depends on it! Porn is like the "chicken exit" on the rollercoaster ride of marriage.

I still think OPs wife has an unknown health, hormonal, or even mental health issue that is making her feel like she doesn't want sex. It's unfair to assume OP ain't alpha enough, or that she's cheating or lost attraction...


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Seriously Edo, you want to know why porn is evil.... Ok. 

1. Matthew 5:28.
2. Catholic Church teaching (pretty sure most churches agree)
3. Wedding vows typically state to "forsake all others"

OPs wife agrees.

I think your belief that it isn't evil, as a "professional" - is that it feels good.


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## JamesStorm (Jul 25, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Seriously Edo, you want to know why porn is evil.... Ok.
> 
> 1. Matthew 5:28.
> 2. Catholic Church teaching (pretty sure most churches agree)
> ...


If OP's wife agrees with 'forsake all others' then shouldn't she be 'forsaking herself'? 
If she doesn't think there is a 'problem' in their relationship, then how can OP 'fix' the 'problem' :scratchhead:

I've got my own problems, but at some point, if your spouse, who committed to love and honor and cherish, doesn't want to participate in a proper marriage, then you do what you gotta do.....


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

JamesStorm said:


> I've got my own problems, but at some point, if your spouse, who committed to love and honor and cherish, doesn't want to participate in a proper marriage, then you do what you gotta do.....


 @JamesStorm I'll play the Devil's advocate and agree with you here, but I'll ask a question. Perhaps the OP should ask himself this question as well. My wife once asked me this...

Do you look at porn because you have to masturbate, or do you have to masturbate because you looked at porn? 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## JamesStorm (Jul 25, 2018)

badsanta said:


> @JamesStorm I'll play the Devil's advocate and agree with you here, but I'll ask a question. Perhaps the OP should ask himself this question as well. My wife once asked me this...
> 
> Do you look at porn because you have to masturbate, or do you have to masturbate because you looked at porn?
> 
> ...


I'd reply with 'I do both because you've made yourself unavailable to me'

Me personally, I don't need porn....it doesn't do much for me. Maybe I'll peruse a handful of times per year...


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> @JamesStorm I'll play the Devil's advocate and agree with you here, but I'll ask a question. Perhaps the OP should ask himself this question as well. My wife once asked me this...
> 
> Do you look at porn because you have to masturbate, or do you have to masturbate because you looked at porn?
> 
> ...


You know, I think most men would not look at Porn if their wives were into having sex with them. 

Like OP here, his wife actually thinks every 5 to 8 weeks is enough sex for a married man or any man. Good grief, at least once per week, good god.

So the answer is, most look at it because the are not getting enough sex. 

This stuff is really not that hard...


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Seriously Edo, you want to know why porn is evil.... Ok. .



Yes. Because I feel that the main reason why there is such disagreement on this topic is that it boils down to one side believing that a thing can be inherently evil and the other side believing that only the actions done with a thing can determine if that thing is evil. 

The video tape... The DVD... The magazine... The image on the computer screen... What is inherently evil about those things? What is it about those things that allows you to paint such a broad stroke and say that nothing good can come from porn? 





> 1. Matthew 5:28.


"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Copy and pasted for those of us who don't have this one memorized).

I'm not catholic or a religious scholar, so bear with me...but it seems to me that the purpose of this passage is to convey the act of "wanting" is just as bad as "having" or something along those lines. It's like the commandment about "coveting" as opposed to actual stealing. Is that the basis of your argument?




> 2. Catholic Church teaching (pretty sure most churches agree)


But then those teachings would only apply to the members of those churches. And then only to the extent that the church leadership, members, and the society in which it exists deem those teachings applicable to how civil society should function. 

And that's exactly why we're here now, debating this on TAM yet again...




> 3. Wedding vows typically state to "forsake all others"
> 
> OPs wife agrees.


But OP does not agree, and "To have and to hold" happens to be the first line in those wedding vows. If OP's wife has withheld any "having or holding", then the vows themselves have already been undermined to a certain degree, if not broken. While I would never ask you to subscribe to a "Two wrongs make a right" philosophy, OP does find himself in a real bind. And I don't advocate cheating with another individual, but I do not consider this to be cheating (No physical touching of another. No two-way communication with another. No money changing hands). This is masturbating. Masturbation is done solo, thus all others have been forsaken. And because this is done solo, he's welcome to "forsake" any unwanted "advice" from anyone else regarding what he looks at while he is performing this solo act.




> I think your belief that it isn't evil, as a "professional" - is that it feels good.



Hellz yeah, it feels good. I love that it feels good. If it felt like sandpaper, THAT would be evil...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Seriously Edo, you want to know why porn is evil.... Ok.
> 
> 1. Matthew 5:28.
> 2. Catholic Church teaching (pretty sure most churches agree)
> ...


1. Is it not possible for a man to see porn and not lust for the woman in the porn? Many men watch porn for the act itself being portrayed and don't actually fantasize about screwing the model on the screen. The sexual arousal that arises from viewing porn may not have anything to do with lusting after that particular woman (or women). When you watch a Chuck Norris movie, are you actually imagining yourself taking out three bad guys with a single roundhouse kick? Probably not. Just because you can't compartmentalize sex you see from sex you do doesn't mean others are also incapable.

And let's continue that scriptrure with Matthew 5:29:
_If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell._
Now we all know that at one time you used porn and it had a negative effect on you. But I'm assuming you still have your right eye, yes?

2. You mean the Catholic Church that teaches sins must be confessed to a priest for absolution rather than directly to the Redeemer himself, even though the Bible says no such thing? Or is it the Catholic Church that teaches (in actions if not words) that it's best to cover up child molestation and let it fester and flourish?

3. See #1 above. One can view porn without specifically wanting the model depicted. Others remain forsaken. Again, maybe not in your case, but your insistence on applying your own very narrow experience to all human beings is very narrow minded.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think theolgians like you guys could justify murder...at least in your own minds.

Moral relativism I think is the name of it... Wife broke her vows, so OP can break his vows.

And the idea RMY, that you can masturbate to porn while not "lusting" is ridiculous. It seems like you could justify actual adultery the same way... " It was just sex with no covetous or lusting". Wouldn't a full service massage parlor be ok too? Does your wife share this opinion, that porn isn't you lusting?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Edo, your gal must not be too hot if you're not willing to launder the sheets... 

Your theories on good versus evil are pretty juvenile. Maybe you should ask a theologian about porn and get their unbiased opinion.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I use porn to masturbate, not the other way around. If my wife had sex with me, maybe a couple of times every week, I wouldn't need porn. And I tend to seek women whose body resembles my wife's... so, I'm craving for my wife, but I have to be content watching virtual replacements... I guess it's better than nothing... :laugh:


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> Sorry I'm so offensive to you, but I guess I would like to shame men into avoiding porn. I grew up with porn (luckily, Playboy was mostly the extent of that) and as a young man I DO feel like it did damage to me, despite that I believe myself fully recovered decades later. My larger concern is the damage done to adolescent boys and young men who access it during their formative years and perhaps never recover. I probably shout louder because I would swear that *no one* on TAM has ever acknowledged these issues. In fact, it is surprising that I am met only by personal attacks (or attacks on the church) whenever I dare mention my opinion about porn. I think it is a major cultural problem that men and boys can access porn in two seconds from anywhere.


But THIS wasn't what we were discussing. At *all*. I don't think anyone disagrees that it's detrimental for young boys to be looking at porn and how readily available it is to them and the damage it might do to a young mind. We weren't discussing any of that.

We were discussing the OP's frustration at his wife's refusal to have sex with him and him having to resort to other means in order to get gratification. You come in with both barrels blazing saying 'people like _you_' to those posters who don't share your opinion on porn, as though we're all some kind of low life breed of humans or something. Then you go on about how 'low class' people are if they resort to porn and masturbation, etc. etc.

You're not simply offering your opinion but judging and insulting anyone who _*dares*_ to have a different opinion than your own. I feel like I'm talking to Ned Flanders. You also say that it's the OP's responsibility to just suck up his wife's complete indifference toward him sexually and ignore his own needs while he reads the Bible every day and tries to fix what his wife doesn't even _care_ has been broken. Sorry, but that's just unrealistic and unless the OP is some kind of religious fantic, that ain't an option.



> Maybe you should ask a theologian about porn and get their unbiased opinion.


LOL. Talk about an oxymoron. You're not going to get an 'unbiased' opinion about porn or masturbation from a theologian. Jeez. But while the OP's at it, maybe he can also get an 'unbiased' opinion about drinking from Bill W.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

There is one individual here, that is borderline becoming 'white noise'...


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Not sure how you make bold premises like theologians are unbiased? 

You make a lot of assumptions CD. Assumptions that are in no way based in fact. 

Putting you on ignore.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Edo, your gal must not be too hot if you're not willing to launder the sheets...
> 
> Your theories on good versus evil are pretty juvenile. Maybe you should ask a theologian about porn and get their unbiased opinion.




What's the matter, CD? You can't give a rational reply to any my arguments, so you pull out the personal attacks? And you refer to me as juvenile. Look in the mirror, pal.

And I have no need to ask a theologian about porn. Asking a theologian's opinion about porn is like asking the CEO of Monsanto for an opinion on how to best grow organic vegetables...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I think theolgians like you guys could justify murder...at least in your own minds.
> 
> Moral relativism I think is the name of it... Wife broke her vows, so OP can break his vows.
> 
> And the idea RMY, that you can masturbate to porn while not "lusting" is ridiculous. It seems like you could justify actual adultery the same way... " It was just sex with no covetous or lusting". Wouldn't a full service massage parlor be ok too? Does your wife share this opinion, that porn isn't you lusting?


When did I say anything about masturbating to porn? 

I understand you have to make things up to support your exceedingly narrow and prejudicial positions.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think I can agree that most Biblically conservative theologians would agree that porn=lust and lust=sin.

But that is not really the point.

The point is that when one states they are a Christian, one is declaring that they intend to be like Christ. Now, Christ was pretty rough inside the church walls that one time.....but if you look at His interactions with the rest of the world, he wasn't an obnoxious, arrogant, stubborn, tactless ass. Even when he spoke a hard truth, He spoke it in love and graciousness.

Nothing in the Bible tells us the purpose of our speaking is to express our opinions really loudly. The purpose should be to edify and change lives and hearts. If no one will listen to your words because you're a jerk, you're doing it wrong.

I am a devoted, conservative, Christian, and quite frankly, CD, the way you choose to interact with people makes me cringe. God hates hates haughty eyes and a proud heart at least as much as porn. He said so.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Here's another related comment but not regarding porn. 

In general, do men (and women for that matter) observe a well put together female in a tight pair of jeans/matching top and appreciate her form, without lusting?

I say yes. But I'm sure that answer is subjective.

😎😎😎


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's another related comment but not regarding porn.
> 
> In general, do men (and women for that matter) observe a well put together female in a tight pair of jeans/matching top and appreciate her form, without lusting?
> 
> ...


Subjective to the number of weeks since you got any?
People are wonderful, we are biologically programmed to appreciate the human form. and cat videos apparently.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Subjective to the number of weeks since you got any?
> People are wonderful, we are biologically programmed to appreciate the human form. and cat videos apparently.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Or she has lost her attraction to her husband or her respect. Or he is having an affair. Or she's had enough of sex. Or she's had some childhood trauma regarding sex.
> 
> Now she's caught you watching porn. You are in the dog house. *Don't expect sex for a few months.* Until she recovers. Seems to me that she doesn't understand "your problem". But that's pretty normal.
> 
> ...


THAT sounds like an excellent way to GUARANTEE your husband will cheat on you, and divorce you eventually. If he is horny, and has to result to porn to relieve himself, and she gets all pissy about it....it is game over FOR HER. 

If my wife shut me off from sex for months, she would be on her azz on the front lawn with her crap thrown out there too.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Edo Edo said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Edo, your gal must not be too hot if you're not willing to launder the sheets...
> ...


Sorry Edo, you're right. But I really would gladly launder my sheets to have my wife!

If you can't ask a theologian... Who you gonna ask to help break down the Bible?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's another related comment but not regarding porn.
> 
> In general, do men (and women for that matter) observe a well put together female in a tight pair of jeans/matching top and appreciate her form, without lusting?
> 
> ...


I agree Ragnar. I think it's easy for men to seriously sin by taking a second, third, or lengthy look at an attractive, shapely lady. Men don't need porn to lust, but porn is worse because it's got full consent of the will because typically you have to click on it and seek it out. If you innocently glance at some hot lady walking down the street... Not much sin in that.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> I think I can agree that most Biblically conservative theologians would agree that porn=lust and lust=sin.
> 
> But that is not really the point.
> 
> ...


So you admit POI, God hates porn? Wow, now we're starting to get somewhere!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Let's take a tally... Who else agrees that God hates porn?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

since this has turned into a religious/morality thread ill throw my 02 in.

since marriage and vows are the back bone of Christianity......I kinda recall something along the lines "to love, honor and cherish"...…..

that being said...when the OP's wife told him to take a hike when he wanted to get some......well so much for lover honor and cherish.

that would be like taking vows to be held hostage in your own home.

and I love the moral high ground/podium the catholic poster is shouting from......a religion ran by pedophiles who sit and judge us. LMAO.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

x598 said:


> since this has turned into a religious/morality thread ill throw my 02 in.
> 
> since marriage and vows are the back bone of Christianity......I kinda recall something along the lines "to love, honor and cherish"...…..
> 
> ...


Ok, x598 we'll Mark you down as porn lover (and Catholic hater).


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> Ok, x598 we'll Mark you down as porn lover (and Catholic hater).


nice try. 

I don't watch porn. not that I haven't ever......but haven't in a long time and simply don't feel the need.

catholic hater? whatever. 

I could come back with some snide comment, maybe "child molester lover?"

how typical. instead of pondering what I wrote and coming back with something intelligent and meaningful to say......you try and smear the other person. how holy and religious of you. you really ought to do some more reading of the scripture and ponder what it really means.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I think I can agree that most Biblically conservative theologians would agree that porn=lust and lust=sin.
> ...


 The fact that that is the only part of my post that you acknowledg'd tells me even more about you. You are a man full of pride and self righteousness. You do not care for the souls of others, you enjoy shaming. You are nothing like Jesus. That is not something I would be proud of period


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Let's take a tally... Who else agrees that God hates porn?


 You really are willfully blind in your ungodly arrogance, are at to you? Does it bother your heart at all, or is it that hard?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Ok POI, so you can't admit it?? God Hates porn.

You're the big holy roller here but I guess your Christian faith forbids you from admitting anything that could possibly offend a porn lover.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Ok POI, so you can't admit it?? God Hates porn.
> 
> You're the big holy roller here but I guess your Christian faith forbids you from admitting anything that could possibly offend a porn lover.


Wow.

What a gentleman. Your wife must be proud.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Ok POI, so you can't admit it?? God Hates porn.
> ...


Still evading... Does God hate porn or not?

Which is the greater sin?

1. Telling others that porn is wrong OR
2. Viewing porn OR
3. Being cowardly and not confronting others that porn is wrong.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> Still evading... Does God hate porn or not?



My God, loves porn*. Maybe your God and my God should meet for a friendly, stress free pint sometime  

*especially the home made kind we do at home  




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CD can you show me the verse where someone else's sin excuses yours.

I believe the Bible. I shouldnt have to spell it out.

And I have had occasion to talk with people about their porn use.

I just prefer to do it privately and with Christlike concern rather than be like you.

You, as I said, are so unlike Christ I honestly wish you wouldnt talk about Him at all.

How is it you ever found the humility to repent of your porn use, being filled with such arrogance?


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Sorry Edo, you're right. But I really would gladly launder my sheets to have my wife!


No man....! You misunderstood the laundry statement before (I should have been more clear). I was half jokingly referring to wet dreams. I'd launder my sheets to have my wife too. No question. But if I were in OP's position, where the wife stopped having sex, I'm going to need some kind of outlet (Eventually, it becomes a matter of simple physics, if not biology). If the choice isn't made to take matters into my own hands (again, pun intended), I can only guess that the body will act on it's own, right? - LOL.




> If you can't ask a theologian... Who you gonna ask to help break down the Bible?



A historian. Specifically/hopefully someone educated in the overall development of the Jewish/early Christian culture with a knowledge of the adjoining civilizations in the area. Someone who'll understand the cultural roots of the Semitic/Habiru nomads and how the influences of Sumerians, Egypt, Canaan, Babylon, Persia, Greeks, and finally Roman occupation shaped the Hebrew people, which in turn became the foundation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. I want someone who will understand what the impact of a polytheistic society transitioning into a monotheistic society and how this impacts that society's values.

I respect that the devout believe that the word of God is pure and absolute. But I also am aware that lessons we currently read in the bible have been retold orally for at least hundreds of years before being written down (maybe thousands, if you consider some of Genesis). After finally being written down, these morals would have been recopied many times for the next thousand years as ancient Hebrew developed as a language. It would have been very easy for even the most careful hand of man to misread or mistranslate the original word of God. Even the original word of the New Testament has been translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin and then to German before appearing in English 1500 years later. How much was lost when the Council of Nicea decided on cannon and removed original biblical content? How much was lost when Christian Ethiopia was cut off by Islam or later when the Eastern Orthodox church split from the West? You get my drift.

So because of all of those possible influences altering the original word of God, I feel that I have no choice but to look for the original intent of a lesson, not settle for the current verbiage of that lesson. I don't think a modern day religious figure is going to give me a non-biased answer I need to accomplish that. I want the historical perspective of the early society that created the theology in the first place. And when I take the time to look from that perspective, I still can't find credible support to the claim of "porn is evil".

And let's be honest, if the goal is to convince me that porn is always bad, even the most experienced theologian is going to have a hard time fully explaining Ezekiel 23 to me. I understand the lesson here, but the first half reads like a 2500 year old letter to Penthouse Forum. Just a little over the top, if the point is not to like that sort of thing. Or 2 Samuel 16:20-22... How is that not glorifying voyeurism? Or Genesis 35:21-22... There's plenty more.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> CD can you show me the verse where someone else's sin excuses yours.
> 
> I believe the Bible. I shouldnt have to spell it out.
> 
> ...


Because repenting his porn use wasn't based on humility for him... it was just another way for him to lord his superiority over others.


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I think theolgians like you guys could justify murder...at least in your own minds.
> 
> Moral relativism I think is the name of it... Wife broke her vows, so OP can break his vows.
> 
> And the idea RMY, that you can masturbate to porn while not "lusting" is ridiculous. It seems like you could justify actual adultery the same way... " It was just sex with no covetous or lusting". Wouldn't a full service massage parlor be ok too? Does your wife share this opinion, that porn isn't you lusting?



I’m not saying it’s ok to break his vows because she broke hers. Two wrongs don’t make a right. What I’m saying is what are his options?
I’ve lived in a less than satisfactory sexual situation for the length of my marriage so i can relate. Now what were my options? If his wife doesn’t want or see the need in having sex then NOTHING he does will change her behavior. When I go long periods without sex I become irratable, depressed, angry and lash out. That’s not good for me or anyone I’m around, so my options are too stay in that mind frame or masturbate or cheat on my wife. Those are all less than great choices. Masturbation seems the best way to me. BTW, God gave me a sex drive because God wants me to enjoy sex. As much as God speaks out against adultery he also speaks out against spouses withholding themselves sexually from their spouses. Now I am a Christian and proud of it but I also live in a sinful flesh and I understand that we don’t always live in perfect situations and you have to do the best you can. Like I said earlier porn is not an ideal thing in most marriages I would assume but if it keeps a spouse from leaving their mate and breaking up their home I think it’s the lesser evil.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> You know, *I think most men would not look at Porn if their wives were into having sex with them. *
> 
> Like OP here, his wife actually thinks every 5 to 8 weeks is enough sex for a married man or any man. Good grief, at least once per week, good god.
> 
> ...



@BluesPower for relationships that struggle with intimacy, especially for a woman that has just given birth and may not feel comfortable with her body, and also has issues about her husband watching porn...

...really? You are going to blame her for being sexually inadequate for her husband! 

Do you have any idea how porn contributes to making women feel inadequate to please their husbands? Imagine YOUR body being rearranged to give birth and how you might feel uncomfortable for about a year, and your wife getting frustrated so she goes and watches porn featuring Thor with his huge hammer pounding out a multi orgasmic experience of the gods for women. Then imagine her blaming you for being inadequate and her female friends totally agreeing with her and making claims that you simply do not perform enough sexually to maintain the marriage! 

Can you kinda see what I am getting at? Or is it really that hard for you to see?

Regards, 
Badsanta

PS: What if in order to have a child a doctor had to perform an episiotomy on your penis?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

So there's three real options in an unsatisfactorily sexual marriage (assuming the denied partner has done everything he/she can do to fix it with no result).

1. Divorce
2. Turn elsewhere (adultery, open marriage, porn)
3. Just suck it up and live with it

So @CatholicDad has made it clear that porn is 100% out, no way, no how, so #2 is clearly not an option.

Oh, and his church also forbids divorce... so #1 is also out.

So in his world, the world he would force on the rest of us, there is really no choice whatsoever. Live the rest of your life in misery with a partner who does not love or desire you. 

What a beautiful vision for humanity!

Is it any wonder most people reject this vision?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

badsanta said:


> PS: What if in order to have a child a doctor had to perform an episiotomy on your penis?



Ah ah... love this... :laugh:


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> @BluesPower for relationships that struggle with intimacy, especially for a woman that has just given birth and may not feel comfortable with her body, and also has issues about her husband watching porn...
> 
> ...really? You are going to blame her for being sexually inadequate for her husband!
> 
> ...


First off, I don't see where I mentioned just giving birth in my post. However, you should be aware of the fact that I have had 3 kids and raised them with the same woman, so I understand all of those issues. 

But, besides the obligatory waiting period after child birth, we were not sexless or had issues with sex. 

Now, I stand by what I said, even though I have never been through it. I really don't see how any woman, as OP's wife in this thread has, can get upset about him watching porn if she is not meeting his sexual needs. Any normal guy would not be happy with sex every 5 to 8 weeks, that is why the definition of a sexless marriage exists. 

Also, as a man, it is your responsibility to make your wife, feel beautiful and sexy. For me, I thought my Ex was beautiful whether she gained birth weight or not. Really she was always more beautiful because she was the mother of my children. 

So while I am not a big porn advocate or a big porn user, I am not really judgmental of anyone else that looks at porn, as long as it does not become a problem for them. 

But you could be a drunk as well, and that could cause problems in a relationship and I am not in favor of that either. 

I don't know how much that answers your post, but there you go...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> First off, *I don't see where I mentioned just giving birth in my post.* However, you should be aware of the fact that I have had 3 kids and raised them with the same woman, so I understand all of those issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough... but the OP "hid" his porn use from his wife until he "GOT CAUGHT!" 

If the OP was someone that admired his wife and as a husband let her know how beautiful she is, and also had an honest discussion about his desire for intimacy for her to say NO... then why would he have to hide his porn use? 

In my opinion that is a learned behavior often associated with porn that has essentially become part of the porno experience. Magazines are sold in a blacked-out wrapping as to be hidden from public view. Porn sites encourage you to delete your browsing history and subscribe to a VPN to prevent your ISP from monitoring you. When it comes to porn everything has to be top secret and hidden. ...and then they offer you adult chat, and adult dating. They offer you opportunities to get laid advertised all over their sites, knowing good and well that this is all hidden from the wife that is busy caring for two preschool children to notice what her husband is doing (except the OP was blasting it on a bluetooth speaker through the house).

For couples in a situation where this is a strong libido mismatch and they want to talk about compromises. It is perfectly OK for porn to be part of that compromise, BUT the wife should be allowed to discuss her feelings and views about it BEFORE a husband goes and uses it. This way it allows for the husband to at least try and be respectful (as possible) in the event his wife has any strong objections to the use of porn in marriage. Hiding it, getting caught, and showing ZERO remorse.... holy cow, what a way to absolutely destroy a wife's ego. 

I am not against porn and I'll often advocate that it can help some people better understand their own sexuality as part of self exploration. But as with everything in life, porn in particular can be extremely harmful to relationships/marriages based on how it is handled. Just because a wife has a low libido, that does not entitle a husband to use porn. Yes it does make a plausible discussion for talking about it, but not for just arbitrarily using it, hiding it and then having no remorse upon getting caught. 

I know we could go back and forth, but my purpose here is to try and speak to the OP (if he is still reading) and others in similar situations to share a different point of view. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> If the OP was someone that admired his wife and as a husband let her know how beautiful she is, and also had an honest discussion about his desire for intimacy for her to say NO... then why would he have to hide his porn use?
> .
> .
> .
> ...


On you main question, why was he disturbed when he was caught, I think that is easy. He is a weak man that is scared of his wife. 

That about sums it up. If he had more balls he would have not let the situation get like this in the first place. 

And as an FYI, my two boys are less that 22 months apart and we lost one in between, so I am not buying the toddler thing. We screwed every time we got a chance usually when they were asleep. She was nothing if not fertile. 

My point to this whole thread has not been the porn it is the weakness on his part of letting things get this way in the first place. 

But that is just one mans opinion...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

badsanta said:


> @*BluesPower* for relationships that struggle with intimacy, especially for a woman that has just given birth and may not feel comfortable with her body, and also has issues about her husband watching porn...


Having toddlers, doesn't mean she has just given birth.

As to toddlers! I'm not buying that as an excuse.

I've had sex with 4 women who had toddlers at the time, of whom I was married to 2 of them (with lots of sex) and their toddles where my kids as well.

I've also had lots of sex with 2 women shortly after they have given birth vaginally to 3 children. Where with both of those women, we didn't wait the recommended period to go for it, since we were all wanting to have at it as soon as possible. The only time we waited the recommended number of weeks, was when my now wife tore with our last child (we still did stuff though, just no penetration).

Plus I have also had plenty of sex with 3 women (2 of them were my wives), who had recent abortions. At their wanting, asking and initiating, with them reassuring me they thought it was okay.

While I've also had sex with 4 women during 8 pregnancies, of whom I was also responsible for 7 of those pregnancies.

Of which only 4 of those pregnancies resulted in births, which saw me have sex with 3 of those women throughout those pregnancies and beyond. With the 4th woman I was with her sexually on only one occasion. When she was heavily pregnant, with her now ex-husbands child and had a toddler as well.

The thing is in all of my experiences without exception. With women who had toddlers, were pregnant or had just given birth or had an abortion, all of them wanted plenty of frequent sex whenever there were available opportunities.



badsanta said:


> ...really? You are going to blame her for being sexually inadequate for her husband!


Absolutely!

That said I think they're both responsible.

Her husbands weak approach (which is unattractive), does him no favours.



badsanta said:


> Do you have any idea how porn contributes to making women feel inadequate to please their husbands? Imagine YOUR body being rearranged to give birth and how you might feel uncomfortable for about a year, and your wife getting frustrated so she goes and watches porn featuring Thor with his huge hammer pounding out a multi orgasmic experience of the gods for women. Then imagine her blaming you for being inadequate and her female friends totally agreeing with her and making claims that you simply do not perform enough sexually to maintain the marriage!


Not wanting to have sex through a year after childbirth???!!!

*NUTS!*

Doing that is about intent rather than capability. Seriously women are in almost all instances capable of having sex safely, not long after childbirth. Waiting a year is what one does, when one or more sexual partners are loathe to have sex with each other.

If someone wants to have sex with someone and that someone wants that sex as well, they're going to have sex as soon as they can.



badsanta said:


> Can you kinda see what I am getting at? Or is it really that hard for you to see?


I can see that your perspective, might lead to less sex.



badsanta said:


> PS: What if in order to have a child a doctor had to perform an episiotomy on your penis?


Meh...

I was having sex with one of my previous sexual partners with her on top, when suddenly there was a snap and then there was blood everywhere.

At first I thought it was her, then found out it was me with blood poring out of my penis.

With the top of the shaft now featuring a distinctive break looking a bit like this: –––__––– which is now permanent. Instead of it looking like this, as it was before: –––––––.

Cue feeling sick, cue sitting in the shower, curled up and bleeding. Then the bleeding stopped, while the shower washed the mess away. So we were back at it again, (3-4x a day) from the next morning.

Double Meh...

My wife didn't get an episiotomy, she just tore open instead. While giving birth to our youngest child. Yet that didn't stop her desiring sex and the only thing that held it up, was waiting the minimum time for it to heal.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

5 to 8 weeks is to damn long. Maybe once a week can be tolerated if you are on some anti-depressant cocktail, but 5 to 8 weeks? Do wives really think their husband isnt going do something about his raging hard-on when he is backed up like that. Porn is the considerate thing to do in those circumstances, many men would probably be swiping right on tinder or sneaking away to get a 'massage'. She should be apologizing for being such a selfish prude who would reduce her man to such depravity.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Fair enough... but the OP "hid" his porn use from his wife until he "GOT CAUGHT!"


Of course he did, since he is conflict avoidant with her.



badsanta said:


> I am not against porn and I'll often advocate that it can help some people better understand their own sexuality as part of self exploration.


I'm neutral on pornography. If someone wants to look at it, they should look at it. If someone doesn't want to look at it, they shouldn't look at it. The End.



badsanta said:


> But as with everything in life, porn in particular can be extremely harmful to relationships/marriages based on how it is handled. Just because a wife has a low libido, that does not entitle a husband to use porn.


Absent doing something which is illegal a husband is entitled to do as he pleases, regardless of how his spouse feels about it. Just as a wife is also entitled to do as she pleases, regardless of how her spouse feels about it.

The sooner some married people stop trying to control their spouses, the sooner there will be better marriages.

Any married person who thinks that seldom ever having sex with their spouse. Affords them an entitlement to a continuing marital relationship, or sexual fidelity from their spouse is deeply mistaken. And I'm not talking about porn, I'm talking about having sexual intercourse in person with others.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Do wives really think their husband isnt going do something about his raging hard-on when he is backed up like that. Porn is the considerate thing to do in those circumstances, many men would probably be swiping right on tinder or sneaking away to get a 'massage'. She should be apologizing for being such a selfish prude who would reduce her man to such depravity.


There's a CatholicMother who knows that all her husband will do, is make posts raging against porn on TAM.

Since according to him there's no way he will ever masturbate, look at porn or have sex elsewhere despite her disinterest in having much sex with him.

Which I guess in some part, explains his raging here.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Edo, well at least we feel the same about laundry, but Jesus' words are pretty clear and straightforward.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Personal said:


> badsanta said:
> 
> 
> > Fair enough... but the OP "hid" his porn use from his wife until he "GOT CAUGHT!"
> ...


It's not about control, but rather self respect, class, and honor. I could do what I want and be a masturbater(like you) but I choose not to. I do this because I want to be dedicated to my wife (and follow in what Jesus said).

My wife almost never withholds sex unless ill, post partem, etc.. even THEN she offers but I prefer to try and pretend I'm a gentleman (note that we also so not use birth control and have a house FULL of kids too... Natural Family Planning works fantastic but does require some abstinence.. sure this will stir up the debate).

I think those that think I'm raging and judgemental ARE in some ways condemning themselves from their own guilt over this... Don't recall being that harsh on here!

Is it harsh to call a porn user a porn lover?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> .... (note that we also so not use birth control and have a house FULL of kids too... Natural Family Planning works fantastic...


If you have a house *full* of kids, then it doesn't work for jack-****. 

That takes a special woman to willingly agree to be a brood mare.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> It's not about control, but rather self respect, class, and honor. *I could do what I want and be a masturbater(like you) but I choose not to.* I do this because I want to be dedicated to my wife (and follow in what Jesus said).
> 
> My wife almost never withholds sex unless ill, post partem, etc.. even THEN she offers but I prefer to try and pretend I'm a gentleman (note that we also so not use birth control and have a house FULL of kids too... Natural Family Planning works fantastic but does require some abstinence.. sure this will stir up the debate).
> 
> ...


This is a perfect example:

You could have simply said "I choose not to masturbate." But no, you had to add the pointed "_*(like you)*_"

Then you turn around and claim to not be raging or judgmental. 

This post, and you, are absolutely classic. Classic! The most perfect demonstration of how so many of those who claim the highest level of spirituality are themselves the most unenlightened. You are completely and utterly incapable of looking at yourself honestly, so you aggrandize yourself and parade that self aggrandizement for all to see at every opportunity. And in doing so, you remain totally unconscious in a spiritual sense. You are less spiritual than even the atheists who post on these boards.

I am not Catholic and, to be absolutely blunt, I think a lot of Catholic doctrine is whack, but the funny thing is I have many Catholic friends and colleagues, none of whom feel the need to raise themselves above others. They are kind, gentle people who get, and live, the positive message of their faith, that we all have problems, we're all human, we're all in this together, and we need treat each other with loving support, not self aggrandizing judgment. You clearly haven't understood the good news. Your obsession with your porn crusade comes from exactly the same dark place as your previous porn addiction--you have just changed your addiction from the porn to the bashing of others who use porn. You just traded a shameful addiction to one that you can justify using to pump yourself up and prove your loathing of who you used to be. 

Dude, get over yourself. Seek _true _wisdom and enlightenment. If you are actually as disciplined as you think you are, you have the capacity to learn the _truth_, rather than leaning on your current crutch of self righteousness. Only then can you be truly free of your demons. 

For Christ's sake, at least go talk to your priest about your obsession. I dare you to show him your posts on this topic.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

JP3 said:


> every 5 to 8 weeks on average


Not sure this fully qualifies as "sexless".


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Sexless is defined as less than 10 times per year. So if they were consistently at the top of this range (every 5 weeks), they would barely not be sexless.

But since a range is provided, we can assume that the time between sex varies considerably and a wait of longer than 5 weeks is not an outlier.

An example. If the average gap is right in the middle of the range, then they are having sex 8 times per year, which is considered sexless.



moco82 said:


> JP3 said:
> 
> 
> > every 5 to 8 weeks on average
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I can tell you from personal experience that 0 times in 12 months (or once on her birthday) is easier to deal with than 4 or 8 or 12. To me, 8 or 10 or 12 is the worst. The HD is being tortured by no where near enough sex to be satisfied, yet just enough to feel exquisite pain every time they are denied in between. And the pain is continuous. One time per month does not make the hunger go away for even one day. You wake up the next morning wanting to do it again. Plus the LD says "we are having sex on a regular basis, just not as frequently as you wish it was". At zero, the LD has no viable argument that what they are doing is reasonable. Once a month or less definitely FEELS sexless to the person who wants more sex.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> I can tell you from personal experience that 0 times in 12 months (or once on her birthday) is easier to deal with than 4 or 8 or 12. To me, 8 or 10 or 12 is the worst. The HD is being tortured by no where near enough sex to be satisfied, yet just enough to feel exquisite pain every time they are denied in between. And the pain is continuous. One time per month does not make the hunger go away for even one day. *You wake up the next morning wanting to do it again. * Plus the LD says "we are having sex on a regular basis, just not as frequently as you wish it was". At zero, the LD has no viable argument that what they are doing is reasonable. Once a month or less definitely FEELS sexless to the person who wants more sex.


You waited until the next morning to have that feeling? No sooner had I caught my breath and I wanted to go again!


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You waited until the next morning to have that feeling? No sooner had I caught my breath and I wanted to go again!


That is why I don't leave my wife. I am a dud in bed. Never had a "round 2" in my life. If we had a nooner, I wanted another at bed time. But that was weeks before she was ready.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Just a quick related question to the more learned folks around here. We see this <10x/year frequency referred to as the definition of "sexless."

I think most folks would say you cross that sort of binary distinction between adequate to maintain a relationship and inadequate to maintain a relationship well before that threshold is reached. 

Can anybody tell me where that definition comes from and why the line was drawn at that point? Is there really any significant difference between having sex every four weeks and every six weeks?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I for one like Catholic Dad. He so enrages people with his arrogance and intolerance, you cant help but enjoy the popcorn debate that ensues. In fact I would think he was just a troll if it wasnt for his passionate hatred for anything porn.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Just a quick related question to the more learned folks around here. We see this <10x/year frequency referred to as the definition of "sexless."
> 
> I think most folks would say you cross that sort of binary distinction between adequate to maintain a relationship and inadequate to maintain a relationship well before that threshold is reached.
> 
> Can anybody tell me where that definition comes from and why the line was drawn at that point? Is there really any significant difference between having sex every four weeks and every six weeks?


I guess it would just mean you're less irritable half the time. If you arent getting sex atleast once a week, I'd say you are in a sexless marriage. Of course there are exceptions for surgeries or childbirth but you get the point.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Can anybody tell me where that definition comes from and why the line was drawn at that point? Is there really any significant difference between having sex every four weeks and every six weeks?


No idea where it came from. And in my experience, zero difference between once every 2-3 weeks, once every month or once every two or 3 months. I did not feel any better about our sex life at once every 2 or 3 weeks. I just didn't know how much worse it was going to get when I started complaining.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> No idea where it came from. And in my experience, zero difference between once every 2-3 weeks, once every month or once every two or 3 months. I did not feel any better about our sex life at once every 2 or 3 weeks. I just didn't know how much worse it was going to get when I started complaining.


My experience as well. Once/2wks was no better than once/2mos


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My experience as well. Once/2wks was no better than once/2mos


Wasn't? There's a big difference... :laugh:


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Just a quick related question to the more learned folks around here. *We see this <10x/year frequency referred to as the definition of "sexless."*
> 
> I think most folks would say you cross that sort of binary distinction between adequate to maintain a relationship and inadequate to maintain a relationship well before that threshold is reached.
> 
> *Can anybody tell me where that definition comes from* and why the line was drawn at that point? Is there really any significant difference between having sex every four weeks and every six weeks?


I am totally guessing here:

This may be a frequency at which point an OBGYN would claim it is statistically impossible for a healthy woman to ever get pregnant and have a family.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

badsanta said:


> I am totally guessing here:
> 
> This may be a frequency at which point an OBGYN would claim it is statistically impossible for a healthy woman to ever get pregnant and have a family.


Not even close. My wife and I got her pregnant the first shot 3 times in a row. We could have had sex once every year and gotten her pregnant all 3 years. Yet another cruel irony. If we hadn't been so fertile together, I might have gotten more sex while we were trying to get pregnant. A victim of my own success.

And I guess I can be thankful so few women were interested in having sex with me when I was young. If they had, I probably would have had a bunch of kids trailing behind me. Or been the cause of a bunch of abortions. So maybe God was doing me a favor by denying me sex all those years.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> Not even close. My wife and I got her pregnant the first shot 3 times in a row. We could have had sex once every year and gotten her pregnant all 3 years. Yet another cruel irony. If we hadn't been so fertile together, I might have gotten more sex while we were trying to get pregnant. A victim of my own success.
> 
> And I guess I can be thankful so few women were interested in having sex with me when I was young. If they had, I probably would have had a bunch of kids trailing behind me. Or been the cause of a bunch of abortions. So maybe God was doing me a favor by denying me sex all those years.


Ditto. Literally the day we stopped birth control, we conceived. All three times. Like clockwork each and every time.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

DTO said:


> Sexless is defined as less than 10 times per year. So if they were consistently at the top of this range (every 5 weeks), they would barely not be sexless.
> 
> But since a range is provided, we can assume that the time between sex varies considerably and a wait of longer than 5 weeks is not an outlier.
> 
> An example. If the average gap is right in the middle of the range, then they are having sex 8 times per year, which is considered sexless.


Wow, I like the actuarial precision.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

moco82 said:


> Wow, I like the actuarial precision.


I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but the approach seemed like the best way to respond to someone who didn't agree that sex every 5-8 weeks didn't work out to less than 10x per year.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

RMY, my priest would be disappointed in my TAM posts but not as disappointed as your wife if you showed her your porn.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.

Couple years ago my wife offered herself to me, basically said she was fertile (knowledge gained from NFP). 

I thought to myself: here is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen wanting to make love and have my baby! What do you think I did?

Sure, most porn users could just walk away and go take care of themselves.

I had one of the most fantastic moments EVER with my wife that night and have a beautiful, baby girl to love for the rest of my life as a result. Point is, NFP works.

I'd never allow my wife to take hormone pills (even if she wanted to) for years or decades.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.
> 
> Couple years ago my wife offered herself to me, basically said she was fertile (knowledge gained from NFP).
> 
> ...


How many kids do you have? Thanks for contributing to unsustainable overpopulation there Mr. Duggar.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

"I had no idea, but porn video audio was playing out there, while I couldn't hear a thing inside the room I was in. She woke up heard it, and then opened the door to where I was, told me she could hear it, and left the room. If it happened to someone else, it'd actually be pretty funny. How stupid could I be. She didn't catch me masturbating, though I would have eventually gotten there had I not been interrupted. "


It's like right out of a movie or something...
I don't mean to make light of your situation, but just a little brevity in this here. I never knew that you could get the blue tooth to do that! Kinda funny.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@CD, re your last post.

Last night dear W offered herself to me. Guess what I did? Well, we both slept well afterwards &#55357;&#56841;

30 years ago, and 32 years ago, W did same, and we have two boys, two grandsons, one step grand daughter. 

Couple different birth control plans, then 20 yrs ago I myself got "fixed" as we age, that's a good plan for some, is for us. Has been no issues whatsoever. 

OK....

Respectfully, so what's your point?


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Ok POI, so you can't admit it?? God Hates porn.
> 
> You're the big holy roller here but I guess your Christian faith forbids you from admitting anything that could possibly offend a porn lover.


Speaking as a Trad Cath myself..."Let he without sin, cast the first stone."

Also, I always try to clean up my own yard before I go tossing trash into someone else's...Just saying.

As for men having needs....That would be like denying your humanity. We can choose to use our "needs" and "desires" with beauty and reverance. And we can SHARE that with our partners, but when that option is removed? Just how far can our grace carry us? After all we are just human....


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Are you seriously using NFP to avoid sex until she was fertile? Your story makes it sound like you guys abstained until her fertility had peaked, and then had sex. Unless you're having fertility issues, why not just do it often and let the pregnancy be a result of enjoying sex with your wife, instead of the GOAL of sex with your wife?

If my understanding of your story is correct, that goes a LONG WAYS towards understanding your views on this thread.



CatholicDad said:


> SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.
> 
> Couple years ago my wife offered herself to me, basically said she was fertile (knowledge gained from NFP).
> 
> ...


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

No, you misunderstand but maybe my fault for typing on a phone (perhaps also my bad rep on here).

We've only done NFP to prevent pregnancy and it works fantastically unless your wife is super hot and you don't do the porn thing. Let's just say that in my case, Mrs. CD could talk me into a million kids 😉 (I told this story to someone earlier who said NFP doesn't work).

So DTO, did you patch things up or are you one of those guys who will continue with porn?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.
> ...


My point was that most (porn using) men could abstain from an offer from a fertile wife... 

If she didn't want kids, we'd use NFP (it works certainly better and with less risk than women taking birth control pills for decades, plus they are abortive, so there's that). 

What's so ignorant about saying porn users take care of their own sexual needs... They do!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> My point was that most (porn using) men could abstain from an offer from a fertile wife...
> 
> If she didn't want kids, we'd use NFP (it works certainly better and with less risk than women taking birth control pills for decades, plus they are abortive, so there's that).
> 
> What's so ignorant about saying porn users take care of their own sexual needs... They do!


No.. what you said was that most porn users would walk away from a willing and available wife. That's a completely unfounded statement. That may have been you when you were in the throes of your porn addiction, but you are blind and ignorant so long as you insist on projecting your own experience on others. 

You're Catholic, yes? Most Catholics drink wine, yes? So most Catholics are alcohol users. Yet how many are actually addicts who let alcohol control their lives? Probably a fairly small percentage. 

Get it yet? 

No, I'm sure you don't.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.
> 
> Couple years ago my wife offered herself to me, basically said she was fertile (knowledge gained from NFP).
> 
> ...


YOU would never ALLOW your wife to...

Really? You act like you own your wife!! You don't!

And you seriously have NO control over what she does with her own body!!!

Get over yourself - you don't own anyone. It sickens me that any man would state such an ignorant and offensive statement.

Your wife can take anything she chooses.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> No, you misunderstand but maybe my fault for typing on a phone (perhaps also my bad rep on here).
> 
> We've only done NFP to prevent pregnancy and it works fantastically unless your wife is super hot and you don't do the porn thing. Let's just say that in my case, Mrs. CD could talk me into a million kids 😉 (I told this story to someone earlier who said NFP doesn't work).
> 
> So DTO, did you patch things up or are you one of those guys who will continue with porn?


Sounds completely boring!

Use birth control. We did - that way we had sex three times a day every day if any month... and yes, THAT was fun every day...not just one time we were trying to get pregnant.

Or do you also forbid your wife from taking birth control?


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Stay firm and call your wife out on the sexless marriage. A similiar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Wife left for work at 5am. Unfortunately for me i started watching porn the minute she hopped into the car. The sound hooked up to the cars bluetooth and she heard it.

She acted similiar to what you described. I called her out on the lack of sex and told her she should be thankful its porn and not a mistress.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > My point was that most (porn using) men could abstain from an offer from a fertile wife...
> ...


You're the addicted porn lover since you consistently defend it. Porn is always the wrong answer, don't you get it?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Beach123 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > SSGI, NFP works! Here's a story.
> ...


It's funny that everyone objects to steroid use in sports but fully support women taking pills with hormones for decades. 

My wife and I are "one flesh" and agree that NFP is beautiful and effective.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> You're the addicted porn lover since you consistently defend it. Porn is always the wrong answer, don't you get it?


And you can't help but make more unfounded assertions.

I'm not porn addicted. I don't even use porn at all. So you're wrong on the first count, just as you're wrong on the second count. Just because I'm not a user doesn't mean I feel compelled to condemn it for everyone else in all situations. I need not "defend it," I only point out that it, like any other vice, is only harmful when it is allowed to negatively affect other aspects of your life. 

Again, just because you couldn't use it without becoming a hopeless addict doesn't mean everyone else is the same. 

Again, you're Catholic. Catholics drink wine. But are you all a bunch of addicted lushes ruining your lives because of alcohol?

For God's sake, man, apply a little logic and critical thought here rather than your blind, ignorant knee-jerk prejudices.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> For God's sake, man, apply a little logic and critical thought here rather than your blind, ignorant knee-jerk prejudices.


You are asking too much of CD.

I don't believe he is capable of applying anything but his blind, ignorant knee-jerk prejudices.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

JP3 said:


> Some quick background: Married 6 years. Two preschool aged children. Her late 30s, me early 40s. Sex is infrequent, typically one day (or one weekend) every 5 to 8 weeks on average. My wife seems unbothered by the lack of sex in our marriage. Like it's a nice idea, but who has time for that.
> 
> The situation: I got caught watching internet porn late last night. She was on one end of the house in our bed, with our 4 yr old, and I was on the other end of the house. I'm not a stranger to internet porn, but hardly a "consumer" of it, especially not since we married. I've considered it disrespectful in a relationship, but I'm at a point now of caring a lot less about that now that I'm essentially celibate. Anyway, I was unaware of the fact that my tablet was connected to the Bluetooth speaker in the living room. I had no idea, but porn video audio was playing out there, while I couldn't hear a thing inside the room I was in. She woke up heard it, and then opened the door to where I was, told me she could hear it, and left the room. If it happened to someone else, it'd actually be pretty funny. How stupid could I be. She didn't catch me masturbating, though I would have eventually gotten there had I not been interrupted.
> 
> ...


There's a lot going on in your relationship. It would be easier to take the issues in parts rather than trying to deal with it as it's entire chaotic mess.

The first part of your description is that you guys have a couple of very young children. This is a tough stage for a couple as the kids are pretty needy at this point - making one or both of you a bit nervous (are we gonna get interrupted?) about arranging sexy time. But, it's important to both of you to arrange sexy time and it would be better to do some scheduling.

Another component of that - and you don't have to discuss it here - is for there to be some thought about if you guys are still fertile and able to get pregnant again. I'm a woman so I can only speak from that viewpoint, but getting pregnant again can be a concern even if birth control is used. All I'm saying is that it can play in the background of people's minds so it can be a silent barrier if the couple is trying to keep their pregnancies planned. 

Yes, the two of you need to be having sex - so very true. But also, having conversations. The accidental speaker situation may have been actually a happy accident because it's opened an opportunity for you two to confront what you both have been silently bearing. 

I don't think that women are evil about not having sex - they just react differently. And also, a lot of women don't understand the nature of men's sexual approaches or outlets. For me, I remember being genuinely shocked when I asked (several years into our relationship) my husband how often he masturbated and he said: "Every day." I wasn't mad at him - I was just "Wow, really?" I felt really naive and stupid...but INTERESTED. 

Fast-forward to thousands of conversations since then and I felt like I came to know and understand my husband a lot better - and he has also come to understand me and how my own sexuality works. This is nothing but a good thing. 

But it takes openness and honesty, which, at first, it can be scary. As a woman, you just feel like you got left out of so much information about sex and men and even your own sexuality. There's some shame involved, like, "I should be doing something better, I should have known, omigod he's going to leave me, omigod I'm ugly, omigod I'm not sexy enough" - whatever, it depends on the woman, but I'm just saying all kinds of stuff is going through a woman's mind that is very likely off-base - because she's new to understanding her husband in these very intimate ways.

I remember the first times I found out my husband was actively seeking out visual sexual aids and, again, feeling hurt and shocked. But we talked through these things - I'm going to just start calling this Our Thousand Conversations. Each conversation led to more openness and more honesty and I began more and more to integrate an understanding of his sexuality. I also asked him to understand MY sexuality, though, too. He was surprised to learn that I love sex just as much as he does - but my sexuality is different than his and my dimmer switch for sex is accessed and turned on differently.

There is MUCH HOPE for the two of you - you are just in a discovery stage - and you will become closer as you turn towards each other and work through this by leaning into the conversations. 

Your wife will get over the shock as you both reveal your sexuality to each other.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Back on page 7 JP3 (op) got into a tiff with a member over all of the BS Alpha advice and left. 137 posts and nearly a month later this record breaking threadjack is still dragging around.








[/QUOTE]


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Ok, my bad RMY. Perhaps I mistook you for someone else.

You just seem to defend porn so vehemently. If you're not a user, you've got my respect. I guess you're more libertarian.. porn is not for you but you won't infringe on someone else's right?. I get that.

I think it is a problem, even if it takes 1% of a man's sexuality... Wives should get 100% (husband's too). I suppose we disagree.

Well, I think this thread Jack is complete.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Ok, my bad RMY. Perhaps I mistook you for someone else.
> 
> You just seem to defend porn so vehemently. If you're not a user, you've got my respect. I guess you're more libertarian.. porn is not for you but you won't infringe on someone else's right?. I get that.
> 
> ...


The problem with your line of thinking is that you assume the porn use "takes" some percentage of a man's sexuality. You are focusing on something which is not the bottom line, and making an assumption about how it will affect the bottom line.

That you respect my lack of porn use is, under those circumstances, entirely meaningless to me. 

Consider this: For some decades, my wife was often sexually unavailable. She wasn't using porn, mind you, but she was still unavailable. Meanwhile, even when consuming porn, I was never, _ever_, sexually unavailable to my wife (nor was I unavailable in any other way, just to be clear on that as well). Furthermore, when I engaged with her, sexually or otherwise, she had my complete focus and attention. She was never neglected in any way, shape, or form. the reverse wasn't necessarily true.

The bottom line here was that only one partner in the marriage was neglecting the sexual aspect of that marriage, _and it wasn't the one using porn._ Only one's sexuality was being withheld from the other, _and it wasn't the one using porn. 
_
Porn was most definitely not the problem. _But it does often make a convenient scapegoat._


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> No, you misunderstand but maybe my fault for typing on a phone (perhaps also my bad rep on here).
> 
> We've only done NFP to prevent pregnancy and it works fantastically unless your wife is super hot and you don't do the porn thing. Let's just say that in my case, Mrs. CD could talk me into a million kids 😉 (I told this story to someone earlier who said NFP doesn't work).
> 
> So DTO, did you patch things up or are you one of those guys who will continue with porn?


Sorry that I hadn't been on TAM too much and let this question slide, but...

Patch things up with who? Perhaps you confused me with someone else? 

In case you didn't mix me up with someone else, I've been single a LONG time. My sexual issues with my ex-wife stemmed from her asking me to marry her even though she wasn't really physically attracted to me. She wanted a handsome, good guy who would provide security and be a good family man. Sex was always a struggle - even on our honeymoon - because she simply wasn't sufficiently attracted to me.

Had a been less naive, I would have seen the truth and gotten out much sooner than I did. There really isn't a cure for lack of attraction except a high deal of selflessness, and she's pretty much the opposite of selfless. But at the end of the day, it's just a lesson learned.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My bad DTO, I confused you with the OP.

RMY, I get what you're saying, but porn does take something away from the marriage, and that's honesty. For many men too it does lessen their desire.

I think men should channel their energy elsewhere when their wives aren't available.. such as fitness, sports, hobbies, etc.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Catholic dad: yeah right, preach that to the priests. They are the biggest masturbators.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> It's funny that everyone objects to steroid use in sports but fully support women taking pills with hormones for decades.



Apples and oranges, buddy. 

Using performance enhancers in sporting events skews results of said events. Using birth control gives women freedom of choice over their own bodies. 

We've been over this. The world isn't black and white, and religious-based arguments only work on other people who believe in your religion. When discoursing, with others on TAM, we look for more fact-based arguments...


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## DjDjani (Feb 10, 2018)

Hehehe this CD guy is crazy as a bat!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Edo, my comment about birth control pills wasn't a religious one (that's a separate argument). Hormones are hormones.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

DjDjani said:


> Hehehe this CD guy is crazy as a bat!


Yeah, name calling is the argument tactic of preschoolers, is that all you got?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> @Catholic dad: yeah right, preach that to the priests. They are the biggest masturbators.


So you got no argument and just want to insult my church?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Edo, my comment about birth control pills wasn't a religious one (that's a separate argument). Hormones are hormones.


You are quite INCORRECT. Vast difference between bioidentical hormones and synthetic hormones.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

How would you feel if you knew your wife was viewing naked men online and masturbating but was not going to you for sex?


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> How would you feel if you knew your wife was viewing naked men online and masturbating but was not going to you for sex?


That's not the case with the OP who is up for sex (no pun intended) but his wife just blows him off, and not in a good way. As one of those who use porn regularly because my wife is isn't interested, avoidant, distant and usually drunk, I think it's a suitable alternative and a damned site better than going without.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

23cm said:


> That's not the case with the OP who is up for sex (no pun intended) but his wife just blows him off, and not in a good way. As one of those who use porn regularly because my wife is isn't interested, avoidant, distant and usually drunk, I think it's a suitable alternative and a damned site better than going without.


If we wereto hear from the wife would we hear that? Guys do not get it, in my opinion, they feel women are avoidant, putting them off, not interested. In all my years (56) I would say this is NOT the case. I have many lady friends and thru the years the complaints are the same. It is NOT that the interest and desire in not there, it is how we have been treated, how we have been hurt or offended by certain actions/lack of support. Men tend to swoop in with all their charm, all loving and expressing their feelings for their girl in the first 6 months. The girls feels it will last, he loves me, reciprocates, it is bliss. Once those hormones stop in the male then poof....he is back to who he was before....many cases all about himself, other times seeking and chasing other women for fulfillment in some fashion, and then the lady of their life is blamed for no interest? Sorry! who changed their behavior? who stopped "the chase" because it was no longer new? Men love the chase/ the flirt/the attention, married or not. You don't give them the time of day and they will keep that chase up that chase (in some form) for years. Give in to it and they are gone, off to their next pursuit.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> If we wereto hear from the wife would we hear that? Guys do not get it, in my opinion, they feel women are avoidant, putting them off, not interested. In all my years (56) I would say this is NOT the case. I have many lady friends and thru the years the complaints are the same. It is NOT that the interest and desire in not there, it is how we have been treated, how we have been hurt or offended by certain actions/lack of support. Men tend to swoop in with all their charm, all loving and expressing their feelings for their girl in the first 6 months. The girls feels it will last, he loves me, reciprocates, it is bliss. Once those hormones stop in the male then poof....he is back to who he was before....many cases all about himself, other times seeking and chasing other women for fulfillment in some fashion, and then the lady of their life is blamed for no interest? Sorry! who changed their behavior? who stopped "the chase" because it was no longer new? Men love the chase/ the flirt/the attention, married or not. You don't give them the time of day and they will keep that chase up that chase (in some form) for years. Give in to it and they are gone, off to their next pursuit.


You're projecting. You have no data in this case to hang this on.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Masochistic tendencies, the only excuse I have for checking in on this thread. 

Some Items I've noted from this page:
I don't buy that Catholic Dad mistook any one for the OP. The OP has not been active on the forum for 2 months.
Steroids, hormones, I take em all. Good thing no one in my condition would consider athletic Competition on any level, let alone international.
If I KNEW that my wife was masturbating to porn, It would let me know that she was at least interested in sex.
Grudge holding (even Olympic class) is a poor substitute for a relationship. I don't know why so many choose it. (Masochistic tendencies?)


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

I feel bad for the OP, I see why he quit.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Edo, my comment about birth control pills wasn't a religious one (that's a separate argument). Hormones are hormones.


There are many hormones that the human body requires to function. Saying "hormones are hormones" is at the very least short-sighted. There is a HUGE difference between birth control pills for contraception, and hormone replacement therapy (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone), insulin, thyroid replacement/supplements, serotonin, cortisol, just to name a few. It is not uncommon for more than one hormone to be affected when someone has a hormonal imbalance. 

There are multiple reasons that people are required to take hormones that have nothing to do with contraception. Imagine that the only way you could live a somewhat normal life is to take hormones daily. Imagine if you forgot to take your hormones (medication), and your body felt like it was on fire, you were anxious, exhausted, confused, your heart started racing, you were nauseous, weak, shaking, or any of the multiple side-effects people deal with if they miss a dose of their hormones. Death is also a very real possibility for some (especially with insulin) Millions of people deal with it every day. 

Sorry to stray off topic, but this comment irked me. Hormones are naturally occuring and a necessary part of the body to function. Unfortunately, many people have to take prescriptions forms of them just to live. Hormones are NOT just hormones; they are the difference between life and death for millions of people.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Ed3n: please, take anything he says with a grain of salt. After all, this man have a fanatical religious anti-masturbation and anti everything sexual not santioned by the church agenda. 

Plus when he's talking about humans hormones and their interactions, I'm pretty, pretty sure he knows nothing.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> @Ed3n: please, take anything he says with a grain of salt. After all, this man have a fanatical religious anti-masturbation and anti everything sexual not santioned by the church agenda.
> 
> Plus when he's talking about humans hormones and their interactions, I'm pretty, pretty sure he knows nothing.


Thank you Rob. I respect people's religious beliefs, in general (I do not support any form of hate in the name of any God). If Catholic Dad doesn't believe in contraception, masturbation, or any other form of sexual pleasure that is not for the purpose of procreation, that is his right. I can respect a person's religious convictions, within reason, but his comment about hormones was not based on religion, but his beliefs that showed a basic lack of knowledge. Hopefully, he, or someone he loves, will never be personally affected by an illness, and who's very life depends on hormones. 

Why would someone so steeped in their own religious beliefs even bother commenting on a thread about sex? Is it to help? Or, is it to spout their own rhetoric? Did I miss his threads about tolerance and forgiveness? Perhaps a helpful Bible verse, such as ""Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." ~ 1 Corinthians 13:4-8" to remind the husband to have faith, and patience with his wife. To focus on the love he has for her, when he is feeling frustrated and forgotten by the woman he married. Perhaps he could lead by example, and shower her with affection, in an effort to remind he that marriage takes work to keep the romance alive. Granted, she needs to make the effort too.

~~~~~

To the OP, you're understandably frustrated. Try to remember why you fell in love with your wife, and then help her remember why she fell in love with you, if you can. Once a woman becomes a mother, it can be difficult for some to remember what it was like to be a sensual, and sexual woman. We go from lover, to wife, and then to mother. It is easy to forget what it was like to just be a lover for some. 

Maybe she doesn't miss her pre-mom life, as many women seem to have the goal of motherhood. Once achieved, not much else matters. They often fail to see the damage they are inflicting on their own marriage, because they are so focused on being a good mother. She needs help remembering that a good mother, is often happier when they are also a happy wife, and giving lover, to the man in their life. Perhaps MC will help her realize that she is more than just a mother, and that you need her to be your lover and wife as well.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My point about hormones is this. If your son came and asked for steroids to get strong I'm sure just about anyone would say "no way". However, daughters taking birth control- I guess everyone is good with that?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> My point about hormones is this. If your son came and asked for steroids to get strong I'm sure just about anyone would say "no way". However, daughters taking birth control- I guess everyone is good with that?


Wouldn't the correct analogy be she took fertility medicine to be even more fertile, not the opposite?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> My point about hormones is this. If your son came and asked for steroids to get strong I'm sure just about anyone would say "no way". However, daughters taking birth control- I guess everyone is good with that?


When I was a freshman in college I remember a girl downstairs bragging to me that she took birth control because it helped control her acne. My comments to her were, "wow I didn't know birth control had such a beneficial side effects like that and I would have never known you had problems with acne!"

Looking back and putting that in context with my autistic behaviors, if she was hitting on me and insinuating we could have sex, I totally missed that. At the time I thought she was just talking about medications that could help people control acne and I was bummed out that men did not have an equivalent birth control pill with those same side effects. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Birth control pills are also probably abortifacient if we're pointing out the pros and cons. It also is now linked to depression.

I'd characterize myself more pro-marriage than anti-porn. I'm also in favor of men being men and not porn watching animals... seem to be the only guy that thinks like that.

Also, not really a religious fanatic but do think we'll all have to face judgement when we die.

All I really wanted to do on this thread was get OP to realize he'd done wrong and reconcile with his wife!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Birth control pills are also probably abortifacient if we're pointing out the pros and cons. It also is now linked to depression.
> 
> I'd characterize myself more pro-marriage than anti-porn. I'm also in favor of men being men and not porn watching animals... seem to be the only guy that thinks like that.
> 
> ...


There are likely others reading here in similar situations and your advice does not likely fall onto deaf ears.


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## serenity22 (Apr 25, 2017)

I dont understand whats so bad about watching porn when the other partner doesnt care about sex. As a married woman married to my husband for three years, and with him being content with having a sexless marriage - I must admit that I watch porn several times a month. And its not always vanilla porn, I can branch out into watching some raunchy videos. In your situation your wife needs to stop acting like a priss. If she doesnt put out then she should not be whining about you watching porn and taking care of your needs. Its strange how someone expects so much devotion from you when they are unwilling to reciprocate. Such spouses should be glad that they are not being cheated on.


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## SkiLifer (Jun 3, 2018)

I don't hide my porn use and my wife doesn't care. She watches it too. I think it's important no to blame her for going to porn, both can exist


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> Birth control pills are also probably abortifacient if we're pointing out the pros and cons. It also is now linked to depression.
> 
> I'd characterize myself more *pro-marriage* than anti-porn. I'm also in favor of men being men and not porn watching animals... seem to be the only guy that thinks like that.
> 
> ...


It is hard to agree with this when I have never once seen you post anything about anything that isn't an objection to porn. I have not seen one useful piece of advice to any struggling spouse.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

And CatholicDad how do you justify staying faithful to the Catholic religion (by supporting their practices) while priests harm young children - AND cover it up!

It is CRIMINAL... I no longer support that church - if everyone stopped going/giving them money - they might change things...

In the meantime you pay to keep perpetrators on the scene with young kids. 

It is dispicable! 

I’ll take MY faith - NOT Catholicism!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> And CatholicDad how do you justify staying faithful to the Catholic religion...


Any religion with the size and history of the Catholic church will have faults. I think current events in the news pales in comparison to the inquisition and how people were tortured publicly by the Catholics on a regular basis.
@CatholicDad is just someone with his own struggles perhaps trying to help himself by helping others. Since no good deed goes unpunished should we cue up countless people to criticize him? I've grown tired of it myself and now admire his efforts solely based on persistence in the face to everyone slamming him with every horrible comment in the book. 

Go ahead criticize him some more. I am sure this is his credo every morning: 



> Blessed are the poor in spirit,
> for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
> 
> Blessed are they who mourn,
> ...


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Another thread where the W puts the kids needs ahead of her husband's. All she needs to do is devote some time each week to her husband. Have a date night, show some interest, and invest in a lock on the bedroom door. Those kids aren't going to die if you can't be at their beck and call for an hour.


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## INTJwife_11 (Oct 9, 2017)

What makes you think that a sexless marriage wouldn't hurt a woman? Women will feel as rejected as men do when they don't get physical attention from their spouse. I would talk to her to find out what's up. Does she not enjoy herself when having sex with you, is she not attracted to you, did you hurt her in any way (I guess now you did!)?


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