# Am I unreasonable?



## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm sure most couples in difficult times wonder who is wrong. I'm certainly starting to wonder myself, but hopefully someone can shed some light.

We have been married for almost 6 years, but been together for a total of 15 years. We are from different countries, and met in College.

We now have two children aged 5 and 3. We live in my home country. In the last 6 years or so, we have not had any sex apart from the two times she got pregnant. I know this sounds unusual, but it is really true. Even if I have forgotten one or two times where we were intimate, it should still give you an idea of our intimacy. Part of the reason I believe is because we don't sleep in the same room. It's been like this certainly since we had kids, but even before then as well. My wife likes her nighttime, and does not go to bed when most people do. She might for instance fall asleep early in the evening after the kids go to sleep, and then wake up and stay up until the early hours, maybe sleeping on the couch in front of the TV as well. She thinks I snore and gives this as a reason, but I believe her schedule and routine is the problem.

For the most part we are fine, but once or twice a month, maybe more often, we will argue about something. It will be quite tense for 3-4 days after this. 

The kids are in daycare, and my wife does not work. It might be difficult for her to find work as she does not speak the local language, but she does not try to find work and most likely does not want to. She has an MBA and has had several jobs prior to having kids. She took language courses a few times per week, but has stopped now. 

When I get home from work, my wife has usually just picked up the kids, and will start on the dinner. I feel that it always gets late and stressful to eat around 5:30 - 6:00 pm when we have to prepare the kids for bed at around 6:30 pm (in some countries this is probably considered early, but this is what most kids do here). I would prefer to eat earlier and have enough time to do an activity with the kids and have enough time to read a book in bed.

During the dinner itself, I eat with the kids while she does things in the kitchen. We don’t have a family dinner in that sense. Often it can be stressful for me to eat with both kids, as our oldest is diagnosed with autism. Although he is high functioning, it can be challenging during dinner and at other times. The late dinners and eating without the mum will sometimes frustrate me.

Whenever I bring this up and suggest she can prepare dinner before she picks up the kids, it is a guaranteed argument. Many times she will say she want a divorce and scream in front of the kids. That is what happened tonight. Tonight was particularly bad as she also screamed that I better find a lawyer. She does not shield the kids either, and tonight told our oldest that mummy and daddy would no longer stay together. Hopefully he does not understand. When my wife gets angry like this, she does not want me to handle the kids, so tonight she did the nighttime routine for both even though it will take one more hour. I normally handle the oldest one. I don’t attempt to intervene and help during the nighttime routine in these cases as it will only result in more screaming and I don’t want the kids to experience this.

This brings up some underlying problems in my view. My wife can get very angry and hung-up in small things. A typical scenario would be if something in the house was displaced and she cannot find it, she would call me at work and scream on the phone, which is embarrassing for me. More concerning are those situations where she is angry with the kids; she will often scream and use foul language. I don’t want to paint a bad picture only, however, as she is very loving and caring for her kids. It’s just that there seems to be these anger or other issues that she cannot control. This I can remember for as long as we have been together, except for maybe the first few years. The other underlying problem in my view is her scheduling. She is always late for everything. Doesn’t matter if it is a simple lunch meeting with me or a catching an airplane. We are always late, and I believe this is related to the difficulty she has with managing time.

I don't really care about sex anymore, but feel that things could be very different if she would have a normal schedule (sleep when the rest of the family sleep), if we slept in the same bedroom (time for some cuddling and chatting), and if she does not work then spend the day to ensure that we don't have a stressful night (prepare dinner before the kids come home).

My wife dos not like the country we live in, nor does she like my family. That means we only visit my family once or twice a year (granted, they live an hour away by plane). She will complain about most things in this country, and although it is one of the richest countries in the world and we are doing well financially, I can understand her point of view. But I don’t believe moving to another country will resolve the underlying problems either. We have lived in some other countries due to my work, and the issues were not less then.

This was a long post, but hopefully gave a decent description of our situation. I wanted to write this to find out if I am off in my thinking about this. What would you recommend we do to move forward?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

She appears to have anger management issues that make her impossible to reason with. She shows no interest in making any positive changes. 

You could suggest therapy, either individual or joint counseling but I doubt she'll go there. If not, you're either going to have to give her what she wants for the rest of your natural life or consider taking her up on her offer to cut your ties and end the marriage.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

She appears to have anger management issues that make her impossible to reason with. She shows no interest in making any positive changes. 

You could suggest therapy, either individual or joint counseling but I doubt she'll go there. If not, you're either going to have to give her what she wants for the rest of your natural life or consider taking her up on her offer to cut your ties and end the marriage.


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## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

How about specifically around the dinner situation, is this common for other families out there?

And if someone really has anger and scheduling issues as I described, is it possible to change?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

willitchange said:


> How about specifically around the dinner situation, is this common for other families out there?
> 
> And if someone really has anger and scheduling issues as I described, is it possible to change?


I've never encountered anything like that in my own marriage. If we *didn't* eat together, or perhaps ate in front of the TV too often, she would be unhappy. Certainly, nothing like you're experiencing, though.

Now... My sister-in-law: that's another story altogether. She yells and screams and cusses out my brother over everything and anything. One time, there was a snow storm... He decided to be helpful and pick her up after work so she wouldn't be so late, as the buses were way behind. He trudged over to a mall, bought a shovel, trudged home, literally unburied his car and then a neighbour's car, and then picked her up. It took him the better part of the day, as there was a huge amount of snow and the temperatures had dropped down to -30C after it fell...

And she screamed at him because he didn't do the laundry... :scratchhead:

SH


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She is not a wife....she is a roommate. Probably best if you do find a lawyer.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

You need to figure out a way to take some control back because your wife runs the show. It seems as if you are being used in a way. If you can't get any control back, next time she says to lawyer up.. do exactly that. Will see how far she gets without you supporting her.


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## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

I can understand these comments based on what I have written, and they seem to conclude with the same. Does anyone have any different perpectives, maybe someone in a similar situation as my wife?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I am not in a similar situation, but I would like to point out you are indeed unreasonable.

You are keeping up with an in my eyes unbearable behavior from this woman. Being nice will not help here, it may make her more resentful towards you.

Search these forums on the Nice Guy issue. Read the book, read the posts, form your own opinion about how you could change YOUR behavior. You can't change hers, only your own.

But changing yourself will change your circumstances. Do it.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I can see how your wife is frustrated. You've listed a lot of very stressful circumstances. Sahm. Isolation. Not using her education. Small kids. Autism. Your marriage has problems, and you aren't working as a team to deal with them. You're roommates, and you are drifting apart. You need to reconnect, but you also need to realize the only behaviour you can control is your own. Rather than suggesting solutions to the problems you think she has, ask her to tell you about her day. Listen. Do not problem solve, just listen and ask questions that let her explore her own problems. Listen and show some empathy. That would be a start. She might start to attack or blame you. Try not to get defensive. Listen to the content of what she is saying. Stay calm, ask questions for clarification. Make it safe for her to vent to you, and really let you know what she is thinking. Honest, open communication will be essential for repairing your relationship.


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## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

I will try harder to listen. I want us to get help, though. I have little faith in that we will resolve this ourselves. I have a feeling she does not want help. She can be angry for several days, and I know it is pointless to try to talk now, or suggest couple therapist. What if she does not want to see a therapist, even after we are back to "normal"?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The first thing you need to do is cancel the daycare and refuse to pay for it. She needs to become a mother again. Maybe then she'll remember she's a wife, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And get the book No More Mr Nice Guy and read it asap.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

She's an abusive wife and she will not change until she see's serious consequences to her actions. Protect yourself and see a lawyer. Have her served with divorce papers. I don't know the laws in your country, but I'm suspecting there will be a timeframe where you can change your mind.

She WILL NOT CHANGE until she see's consequences. SERIOUS consequences. If you don't like walking on eggshells your whole life, do something about this monster.

And start with the 180 immediately.



willitchange said:


> The kids are in daycare, and my wife does not work.
> 
> She will complain about most things in this country, and although it is one of the richest countries in the world and we are doing well financially...


She's an overpriveledged psycho that needs to be brought down to earth. Protect yourself, separate from her emotionally and throw down a gauntlet.


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## whattodoskidoo (Sep 13, 2013)

She sounds depressed to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

btw, it's rare that one of a couple is the one who is 'wrong.' More likely that both have contributed to the problems, so best to solve the problems as a team, not as the one who was wronged. You accomplish more that way.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I agree with Turnera - it's both of you. You can't change her, but you can change you, so my post is directed at that. 

It sounds to me like your entire relationship is based on what YOU think is best. Your wife tries to balance that power shift by doing little things that only SHE can control. Staying up late, deciding when to have dinner, and not liking where she is are all ways of saying, "This isn't fair and I'm not happy about it." 

She's an intelligent woman who isn't valued for very much. She doesn't have enough "meaning" in her life. She's surviving and her current purpose appears to be raising your children, but I'm thinking that she feels some important purposes in her life aren't being met. 

How will you, as a good spouse, give her this gift?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> I agree with Turnera - it's both of you. You can't change her, but you can change you, so my post is directed at that.
> 
> It sounds to me like your entire relationship is based on what YOU think is best. Your wife tries to balance that power shift by doing little things that only SHE can control. Staying up late, deciding when to have dinner, and not liking where she is are all ways of saying, "This isn't fair and I'm not happy about it."
> 
> ...


Interesting word choices. The big problem I see is that he can't give her meaning in life. That is something she needs to find. He can support her and allow her to define it, but he can't give that to her.

I would also add that it is not clear to me that she adds much value right now. Perhaps I am missing something, but with her "responsibilities" as described, she does not have much to do. She may have too much time on her hands.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

She won't change, becuase the situation is working very well for her.

She recieves alot yet has to give nothing in return. Tell me, why do you think she would change?

You have to make her way of living not a viable option.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

I see a few issues here that other commenters aren't directly addressing, so I will.



willitchange said:


> I feel that it always gets late and stressful to eat around 5:30 - 6:00 pm when we have to prepare the kids for bed at around 6:30 pm (in some countries this is probably considered early, but this is what most kids do here).


Well, then that's an easy fix, isn't it? What does it matter what is normal where you live? 630 is ridiculously early for children to go to bed, no matter what age they are. During some parts of the year it is still bright daylight at 630. Change that to 830 instead. Problem solved!



> _Whenever I bring this up and suggest she can prepare dinner before she picks up the kids, it is a guaranteed argument. Many times she will say she want a divorce and scream in front of the kids. That is what happened tonight. Tonight was particularly bad as she also screamed that I better find a lawyer.
> 
> This brings up some underlying problems in my view. My wife can get very angry and hung-up in small things. A typical scenario would be if something in the house was displaced and she cannot find it, she would call me at work and scream on the phone, which is embarrassing for me. More concerning are those situations where she is angry with the kids; she will often scream and use foul language._


Another issue is fighting. Couples disagree. Couples argue. That is normal. Screaming and using foul language and threatening divorce in an argument (especially in front of the kids) is not normal. Negotiating disagreements is actually a skill, and there are ways to "fight fair" so you can get through this without all the drama. 

Some big rules are:


No name-calling
No bringing up past disagreements
Avoid using the words "always" or "never".
But there are more. 

I ***HIGHLY*** recommend you two go to marriage counselling for the specific purpose of learning how to argue more effectively without all the fighting. From your letter here, it sounds like the problem is more on her side than yours, although that's how it always sounds from the perspective of the person writing about it. Regardless, it would be a useful skill for you both to develop. 



> _I don't really care about sex anymore, but feel that things could be very different if she would have a normal schedule (sleep when the rest of the family sleep),_


That's the other issue no one is addressing. Look, if you both are happy with a sexless life, then that's fine for you (I couldn't live that way). But it's not just about the sex, you end up being roommates and co-caregivers to your children, like day-care workers. I don't think this is the life your wife envisioned when she got married. Another reason for you both to go to marriage counseling is to get yourselves back to feeling like you actually are in a marriage again.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Only one thing to add to Theseus: 

Sexless means trouble, see the sex forum. I would say to make a point of having 'therapeutic sex sessions'.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why are the kids in daycare full time if she is home all day every day? She sounds bitter and resentful of her whole situation...not her country, no job, no kids to tend during the day. And what is up with the sex thing?? Were you not aware that she was anti-sex before you married?


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## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

Many insightful posts here and I appreciate that. I totally get that this is a two way road and that both of us need to work on this as a team. After so many years of not getting anywhere, I believe I have to make it a condition that we get help if we want to stay together.

Tonight I went out for dinner with some coworkers. I rarely do those things as I know things will be crazy at home if she is by herself with the kids. There was probably a lot of screaming and a hectic night for them. I went out tonight as she is still very angry and does not want me around after my comment last night about late dinners and suggestion that she can do housechores during the day when the kids are in daycare. She makes it clear that she wants to do everything with the kids when she is in this mood. I cannot brush their teeth or read them a book or anything else, even if it means both kids will be uncontrollable, cry, and go to bed an hour later than normal. It is not pleasant for them. I stay clear to avoid exposing the kids to her screaming directed to me. She has no interest in shielding the kids.

Regarding the bedtime, at age 2 and 5 you should really get 10-11 hours of sleep. The kids are really tired at about 7pm, and they wake up at around 6-7 am, so unless kids in other countries require less sleep, I don't think we are too off here. The alternative would be to stay up later, sleep later, and go to kindergarden 1-2 hours later than the other children. And I would be 1-2 hours late for work, as I take the oldest one.

I understand the principles of the mr nice guy. I hear with my coworkers what their role is to get a sense of how I compare. Their significant other works, moslty due to a financial need, but I often think it would be better if my wife worked, because that would force us into a schedule. Now I just get frustrated because she chooses to do the chores after rhe kids come home. At work I do not have any issues related to mr nice guy. Actuallt I lead teams of people and perform well, but I have been thinking about this today that she consciously or unconsciously acts the way she does due to her situation. Then I remember that the underlying issues with anger and time management have always been there. Even before kids and when she was working. In fact, there were always issues at all her jobs too. Like she was very insecure with a low self esteem, and never really got along socially with coworkers. My behavior to her is probably to avoid conflicts. Sometimes i can't help not saying what i think and then it will explode on her side. And it will last for half a week or so.


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## willitchange (Nov 26, 2013)

About sex, we had plenty of it in the beginning years. It just died completely with kids, and became increasingly infrequent up until we had kids. I think different schedules did not help the issue, but that cannot be the only reason. The roommate theory is sad, but it certainly fits the current situation, or even the situation before we had kids.

Thinking about this and the potential of divorce, I didn't have lunch at work today, but drove to a fast food place and cried in the car. She seems so angry and emotionless. I am mostly sad because of the kids. I probably wont see them if we divorce and she moves to her country. I would have great comfort if I knew she would handle them properly, but I know that will not be the case.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're a conflict avoider. You'll never be happy until you learn to stop avoiding the conflict. 

And, just to point it out, in case you haven't seen it, SHE is the only one you avoid conflict with.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You should get No More Mr Nice Guy. It should open your eyes a bit. The strategies you use to try to handle conflict are ineffective. You need to become aware of what they are, and consciously choose other methods.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Interesting word choices. The big problem I see is that he can't give her meaning in life. That is something she needs to find. He can support her and allow her to define it, but he can't give that to her.
> 
> I would also add that it is not clear to me that she adds much value right now. Perhaps I am missing something, but with her "responsibilities" as described, she does not have much to do. She may have too much time on her hands.


Agreed that she's not bringing much to the table. I sense that their life as a couple revolves around what HE has determined is best for the family, and her cooperation has led to a situation where she feels hopeless and unable to do anything in an area where she doesn't speak the language. So my question to him is a legitimate one in the sense that either he needs to cut her loose, or he needs to find a way to reevaluate his priorities and provide her with access to things that are meaningful to her.


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