# how should I react to a request for separation?



## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

new to the forum. Married for 10+ years, 2 young kids. Wife, all of a sudden told me she’s insecure of our future together, wants “space”. We were overseas for a month and she told me this right before we left- she didn’t want to talk about it during our trip. But it was impossible. In spite of that, things have been much better than we both expected (no fighting, calm talking, I reacted “better” than she thought, but I know that talking about it has had the opposite effect of what I wanted!). 

During all of our years together I’ve traveled extensively and been largely absent (she was always OK with it). I’ve made it clear that that, and other things will change (and already have) now that I understand what they mean to her (missed all early signals!). She’s noticed the efforts and says she appreciates them: all the signs of a "walk away wife"-- things brewing for years, sudden surprise- and although she’s acting fairly normal and has told me she wants us to try to see if things work, I’m sure she’ll ask for a separation this week when we see a couple’s therapist for the first time (told me yesterday she’s still thinking about it and wants to see what the therapist says). 

Since I’ve traveled so much in the past, I don’t see how a separation would mean trying to work things out vs. trying out a divorce (she’s already spent plenty of time without me many times- but now she’d have to get a job, etc). 

Should I tell her how I really feel, that separating doesn’t make sense to me because it won’t give us a chance to see how changes will improve things and I therefore don’t want her to do it? Should I go with it even though I very deeply feel that it would just mean the beginning of a transition to divorce? She say’s she’s not seeing anyone, but I have not asked her if a separation would be specifically to see other people. 

She’s going through a mid-life crisis, which has a lot do with triggering this. I think what she decides will depend a lot on what the therapist recommends. My intuition is that the therapist will tell her she has to decide, so I guess my real question is what to do to save our marriage. No big issues/fights between us, but obviously important enough. Maybe my best option is to tell her how I feel, but that if that’s what she wants I respect the decision and I’ll give her the time she needs alone? (easier said than done- the thing is, if she does go through with it, I think it will be the end, so my gut reaction would be, if we separate, really go my own way..). there is of course the possibility that there’s someone else and the separation is to try that out (I don’t think she’s been unfaithful) and I also wonder how that would change the picture..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

hoplesstraveler said:


> She say’s she’s not seeing anyone, but I have not asked her if a separation would be specifically to see other people.


You should ask her. Aside from asking for "space", has she displayed any other signs of a possible affair?

Have you gotten the "I love you, _but I'm not *in love* w/ you_..." speech?

Working out more / weight loss?

New hairstyle? New clothes? New lingerie?

Being secretive w/ her phone or other electronic devices? Any increase in texting, etc (if you're not sure about this, check your phone records)?

Any significant time that's unaccounted for?

Any mention of new co-workers or other male friends?

Suddenly pointing out all of your perceived (from her perspective) flaws and shortcomings?

Change in frequency/quality of intimacy?



hoplesstraveler said:


> ...there is of course the possibility that there’s someone else and the separation is to try that out (I don’t think she’s been unfaithful) and I also wonder how that would change the picture..


If you were to discover that she's been unfaithful, how would that impact you? Would it constitute a deal-breaker for you?


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## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

thanks for your response, and yes to all of your questions
a month ago i noticed he changed her phone pin. so at some point i asked her for he phone for something and her reaction made it obvious she was hiding something. today i found out that during our trip, she bought a calling card and has called someone, but not very frequently. i did confront her when she first ask for space and she said there was no one else. then again 2 weeks ago and she said she wasnt like that, that if she were going to have an affair she would tell me first. so it's very possible there has not been anything physical, but she will if we separate. is it a deal breaker if she slept with someone else? no. but if she says she wants to, i dont know if i can handle a separation + that. my therapist said i could not prevent it so i'd have to decide if i was OK with it or not. so the big question now is do i confront her again although i have no hard proof? she's likely to deny it again..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you can turn this around, but it's going to take a lot of proactivity on your part.

I would not do the separation thing. Tell her if she needs space, you two can file for divorce. 

Tell her the alternative to divorce is that you are going to stop traveling and be with her every night. That excessive travel obviously has not worked out for you two, whatever you may think. 

Tell her it's pretty clear if she's having an emotional affair that you have not been meeting her deepest emotional needs and that you would like to change that. But make it very clear that you will not do it without complete transparency and accountability from her. Be very upfront with her about how she would not let you see her phone and you know about the calling card. Tell her that even having suspicion about an affair is enough to break the trust in the marriage, and that you're not going to continue living in a marriage when you don't feel complete trust. Finish by telling her that you both made mistakes in this marriage and you're both going to have to repair it. Have a list ready of what you expect going forward, and make sure that transparency and accountability are at the top of it.

Give her 24 hours to think about it. If you don't see compliance, file. 

Not meeting a wife's deepest emotional needs in a marriage is asking for trouble. But one of those deep emotional needs is for you to react strongly to an act of marital sabotage like cheating. It shows you care.

You're going to have to show a lot of leadership to bring back this marriage. Do you think you can do it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

hoplesstraveler said:


> thanks for your response, and yes to all of your questions
> a month ago i noticed he changed her phone pin. so at some point i asked her for he phone for something and her reaction made it obvious she was hiding something. today i found out that during our trip, she bought a calling card and has called someone, but not very frequently. i did confront her when she first ask for space and she said there was no one else. then again 2 weeks ago and she said she wasnt like that, that if she were going to have an affair she would tell me first. so it's very possible there has not been anything physical, but she will if we separate. is it a deal breaker if she slept with someone else? no. but if she says she wants to, i dont know if i can handle a separation + that. my therapist said i could not prevent it so i'd have to decide if i was OK with it or not. *so the big question now is do i confront her again although i have no hard proof? she's likely to deny it again..*


Get proof...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's not out of the blue, you've been absent for most of your marriage. Not sure in what universe you thought that would work out ok. Tell her you'll now be home like a real husband and if that's no good you may as well file and be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Separation should never be on the table. 90% probability your wife is also in an affair. Weightlifter posted a thread on how to gather evidence. 

First, never listen to words from a woman's mouth. They communicate emotion not content. So when she says things like "I would never do that!" The message is "relax calm down" not "I'm not screwing around". 

Separation or long distance relationships in marriage are the married equivalent of let's just be friends. You got the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech" you just don't know it. 

Somewhere your words have failed your wife. She's lost trust in your leadership, years of travel, saying you were gonna change, what ever. The only way to fix this is, fix yourself. Quit yapping to your wife, become a man of action. Go to the gym. Get
A job you love (if you don't love the one your in now). It's a long process, I'd recommend reading no more mr nice guy and married mans sex life primer. 

First step, tell her "no separation, your either in or out". Give her 48 hours. If she says "out" send her packing. Give her a hard 180 (google the marriage 180). If she says "in" tell her to get her phone, right then and there, tell her to unlock it. And tell her to come clean 100%. The terms of "in" should be 100% transparency. If she balks, throw her out. Some people may advocate further evidence gathering, but frankly she's checked out pretty bad. I think it's time to move forward. 

She needs to know you don't need her. Either she's in, or out, and it'll be on your terms. If you try to nice her back, you'll push her away for sure. My way you might loose her, but it'll be on your terms.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

U.E. McGill said:


> Separation or long distance relationships in marriage are the married equivalent of let's just be friends. You got the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech" you just don't know it.
> 
> Somewhere your words have failed your wife.*She's lost trust in your leadership, years of travel, saying you were gonna change, what ever. The only way to fix this is, fix yourself. *Quit yapping to your wife, become a man of action. Go to the gym. Get
> A job you love (if you don't love the one your in now).


:iagree:


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## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

thanks everyone for the responses. she's definitely hiding something, but it's not 100% clear that it's cheating. there are always possible explanations for things, and i guess that's my fear- if she's not cheating and i confront her more strongly, it can really backfire. i know she's looked at divorce forums and an apartment for her (in case we do separate i suppose), and pages for divorce lawyers (and deleted the history). not ideal, but if she's unsure of what she wants to do, i give her the right to explore such things. her phone is pre-paid, so there's no record of calls- if she deletes the logs, they're gone. and the ones on the calling card- the same. it could have been to call a friend, although she clearly hid the card and today when i asked her how she was calling the US she completely omitted any mention of a calling card- a strong signal. i think she's being very smart with her communications and catching her won't be easy. she's hiding very well whoever she's communicating with. i know i can eventually catch her, but it may take time. and if she's unsure of what she wants to do, i wonder if it may be smarter to just "keep an eye on that" but work on our relationship.. part of me says i need to wait and see what she's going to tell me with the couple's therapist this week. this could range from just asking for advice from her on whether to separate or not, to much bigger news, to an actual decision. i also know she started looking for a job and basically in all practical ways preparing for a separation/divorce (or not! not sure if she actually contacted a lawyer or just searched). but what she says and how she acts don't match that, so very confused. some of the posts i've read indicate that in this situation pushing her might have the opposite effect (that's what my therapist told me)- assuming she's still still debating of whether to stay or go. so while i understand the ultimatum, going 100% clean argument, she could possibly still say "sure" and continue hiding stuff. and there's always a chance that if she is considering someone else, if things between us get better and she feels she has a choice, she could not take that option. but i do tend to agree that i should not agree to a separation as it would most likely just be a comfortable way for her to "try out" if she can make it on her own...


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

DO NOT LISTEN TO HER WORDS! Only watch her actions. 

Sure you may force her underground but the terms of R must be 100% transparency.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sounds like neither of you is being transparent.

Don't you think you're both playing the same game?

I specifically mean hiding and avoiding conflict.

You also sound really afraid of losing her. You need to stop trying to control the outcome. Just be honest and open with her.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Does she use a tablet or laptop/computer at all?


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## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

yes, i think we're playing the same game. the problem started a month ago when i noticed she had changed her phone pin. her reaction made it clear that she was hiding something. i could not figure out what. but between then and now, i keep finding that she's constantly erasing traces of something. at some point we talked and i told her that honesty had always been very important in our relationship and i had not understood her reaction wit the pin. she said she reacted that way because she felt observed, and again said she wasnt seeing anyone. so i believed her and stopped checking. and checked just once a few days later and realized that while she says she wants to work things out, she's been searching for apartments, a lawyer, on "how to tell your spouse you want a divorce" and erasing the traces. and since this whole thing started ive had the feeling that she's already made up her mind and is just buying time while she works on the execution plan (she does not have a job/$). but she denies it. maybe im in denial hoping she's not fully convinced, but it does help me to know where she is in the process. it would be even more painful to think that i'd been working things out while she was just working out the details of her plan. now i know she's looking at the details of the plan, but not sure if that means she's really made a decision or is just exploring. i'd prefer for her to simply tell me and stop this nonsense, but every time i try to get info from her, she hides it and if i confront her, she denies it (i have not tried a direct confrontation- for example, i checked your browser history and found x,y. i haven't done that because then she will know that i am checking and if she is indeed hiding something important, i may then never find it. i checked her call records again and she made over 30 calls back to the US with the calling card- many are very short, but some are upto 1 hour. i dont know the numbers she called. it could be just friends, but why use a calling card and not what we always use- the phone itself, or skype? 
i think what i'll do is wait for our therapist appointment this week and think things over the next few days, and confront her next week at least about the calls. she does use a phone and computer. tablet not so much. but i cant find anything there besides some of the searches i mention above..


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By GusPolinki*
> Working out more / weight loss?
> 
> New hairstyle? New clothes? New lingerie?
> ...





> *Hopelesstraveler*
> thanks for your response, and yes to all of your questions




Hopelesstraveler
*Start right now taking actions to become more self reliant and less connected to your wife*. You cannot change her and she has given you enough information for you to know that she is not interested in getting closer to you. In fact she wants to separate from you.

You do not know for sure that she is having an affair but you are sure that she wants to separate from you. The more that you become self reliant and not needing her as much as you do now the sooner you will start getting adjusted for either an R or a D, whichever the way it goes.

*Get strong enough to let her go and for you to be ok if she leaves.*If you get to that point then that could result in her not being so adamant about separating. If she separates from you then you will be OK and will be in much better shape to start rebuilding your life without her. You have the choice of getting stronger or if you do nothing you will automatically get weaker and wind up a door mat


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## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

ok, so now i have 100% certainty that she's having an affair. she lied about where she was tonight, had her brother lie too. but i decided to not confront her while i figure out what to do. i want to save the marriage. later this week we're seeing a couple's therapist. i'm really wondering what she is going to tell me at that session, and want to be prepared. it could be (1) wants to "work things out", (2), wants to separate, (3) wants to get a divorce. i think in all scenarios she's unlikely to confess the affair unless confronted. but i'm not sure if i should confront her or not- again, my goal is to save the marriage. thoughts?


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

My thought is you should apply the good advice you have already received. If your goal is to save the marriage, exactly what have you DONE thus far other than wait? She is in complete control. You continue to allow this hoping that by doing nothing, somehow she is going to magically want you back. The outcome here is certain unless you stop being the doormat. 

You cannot control the outcome. You CAN work on yourself so that you can deal with this from a position of strength and confidence.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are getting good advice. Since you have children divorce is serious matter. Your wife is checked out and likely cheating. What is to say she has not done it before during your frequent travels?

What work do you do? How will you cope with being a single parent?

Have you read about the 180? You should not try and nice your wife into being in love with you. It doesn't work. Be happy and confident, even if you have to fake it. File for divorce. Beat her to the punch. Being willing to end your marriage may shock her into ending the affair. Right now you are the needy one in her eyes. You need to change your status.

If Mach were here (search Machiavelli here on TAM) he would tell you to get new clothes and hit the weights. Having a V torso and flat stomach will send a message to your WAW/WW liminal center. She may desire you if you up your sex ranking.

Do not tell your wife that you love her three times a day. If anything tell her that if she wants separation and divorce you will grant them, for you love her and want her to be happy. However, you are not going to be her friend. Stop the fake were getting along. Be indifferent but in a light hearted manner. You need to take her leverage away. Do not show anger. It will make you look weak.

Get a VAR for her car. Weightlifter explains this to all TAM newbies.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Agree about the VAR. It will make short work finding who the OM is.


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## hoplesstraveler (Jul 27, 2014)

im 100% sure she's having an affair and will confront her in a couple of days, before we see the couples' therapist. since this whole thing started 1 month ago, i have been very proactive, changing my behavior, trying to be upbeat- and she has noticed. but she also told me today that even with all the changes, she's not sure that's what she wants and feels depressed. i dont know what she will say about the affair, but clearly its having a huge impact in how she feels. she just doesnt seem to know it... and seems pretty hopeless about our marriage. very tough..


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Hopeless,

I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. But friend...there you go waiting again! Like others have said in one way or another, you should get busy finding out the details of her affair (and in the meantime, stop confronting her) or if you have enough proof, get busy taking control. What good will a couples' therapist do when she is in an affair with someone else?

Right now you are a helpless passenger on this flight. The flight number is "hopeless traveler's life". You are in the coach section with no access to the ****pit. Your wife and her boyfriend are flying the plane. 

See Longwalk's post for excellent advice regarding the details of "getting busy". Acting more upbeat is a start but I hope that along with getting proof (if you need more proof), you have read about the 180 and are implementing it, read MMSLP, are improving your diet, working out, getting plenty of sleep (or trying to), and so on. 

In the meantime, you are worried about what she will say about the affair, what her counselor is going to say about the affair, that she is depressed, that her affair is having an impact on how she feels about you. Assuming you are correct about the affair, she has disconnected from you and thinks now only of herself, her new man, and how best to go about rearranging your life and theirs so that they can be together. Get the proof you need, then TAKE CONTROL. This is YOUR life. 

Good luck to you brother.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Hopelesstraveler

*Decide on a plan and follow through!* There are lots of resources to help you get a good plan and some of those resources are right here on TAM

Your plan should at least have some actions that will build you up emotionally. In addition, your plan should have some counseling for your needy and compromising attitude. You seem so scarred to lose her that you are compromising. It is very important that you start getting stronger immediately because you are in the beginning of huge marriage crises. 

Do not think that you can nicey-nicey your wife to make her change because you cannot so do not waste time with that. I know you may panic and try to nice her with hopes that she will change her feelings for you and her desirers at this time. That will not work. 

If there are some things that you need to improve on that will help you in this marriage or the next then get busy changing yourself. DO NOT beg, cry, plead, or compromise your integrity and self respect because you are desperate for what you depend on her for.
*
If your wife is cheating then you need to build yourself up in every way and become as self reliant as possible*. The more that you are indecisive and not taking actions as described above the more that you will start being torn down and become a door mat.


*
If your wife is going to be drawn to you it will be mostly because you are showing strength and self improvements but not appeasements and weakness.*


You need to get yourself in a position that you can live with her or without her. That is the two choices you will have. She may take away the choice of you living with her so *you had better prepare yourself or you will wind up a door mat or a broken man*.


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