# I'm having a real hard time dealing with it



## Hardtohandle

Will try to make it short as possible.

Married 14 years, dated 5 years. 2 boys 12 and 8.

My vice was online gaming. At the end I pretty much ate at the computer. I know I ****ed up. It was eating my wife and she snapped and she had an affair and now is leaving me.

Some extra back story.

After my first child was 1 years old I caught her intending on meeting someone she spoke with online. She never did it and we went to half ass Counseling. End result over time it was swept under the rug. 

Years later ( about 6 years ago )I caught her emailing her old boyfriend she broke up with to be with me. He was a drug addict and had some other issues. End result he seems he cleaned himself up and is now a counselor in another state. She admitted she was fishing to hook up. I got pissed and she told me she was going to a counselor, I went with her. 

It was one of the best things we did. The counselor is good and on point. My friends puts it best when he says it seemed as if we came out of that issue stronger. I really felt the same way.

Unfortunately I ended up becoming more of a third son then a husband. I work 44 hours a week and put in about 35 to 40 hours OT a month. My wife works part time and deals with the rest. Taking the kids to school, picking them up, cooking, ETC..

End result she meet someone in June who basically expressed and interest and she accepted to talk to him via phone and text message. Since June they meet twice and had sex. 

We tried Counseling since October. Unfortunately she had second phone to talk to him and when I caught her with that, she agreed at a Counseling session to toss the phone away and not to talk to him again, she also expressed this to him by calling him up during our session. I come to discover that about 2 days later she reached out to him again and has been in contact with him since then. 

I know she has problem communicating from the last incident. And I admittingly have or had a short fuse and flew off the handle too fast. So she couldn't tell me to get off the computer and acted out this way. She admits she is 1000% wrong for what she did.

Her simple comment is she does not love me anymore.

What also is killing me is this guy is calling her and texting her when I am home. Even though I expressed how painful it is to me and also having the Counselor telling her that he or she should not be doing that, It still goes on. 

On one hand I am trying to get the divorce papers done fast enough so she can get out and on the other hand I don't want her to go.

I know what she is doing now is really crappy, but I know the good person she is as well. 

I cry at work, I go home and cry in private. I pretty much just about begged her to reconsider. 

I'm just having a hard time coping with this. I know it will get better and I understand it will take time, but I just love her to death and we have been so much together. 

I stood at my door this morning and just listened to the silence in the house and it just hit me that its going to be just like that every morning and evening I come home when she is gone with the kids. It really hard to handle. 

I would do anything to fix this and keep my family together.


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## ThreeStrikes

It takes two to make a marriage, and one to end it.

She chose to end it by cheating.

She says she doesn't love you. 

She hasn't filed for divorce, and has become a cake-eater extraordinaire. You pay the bills, she screws around. That's why she hasn't filed for D.

She has been fishing for attention from other men throughout your marriage. 

She is not a good person. She is being a lousy wife and mother. The "good person" is an idealistic image you have created in your mind. Her actions are showing who she really is.

It sounds like you would reconcile if she was willing. In order for that to happen, you need to kill the affair. That means exposing it to her friends and family, and if the other man is married, tell his wife.

Sorry you are here. Others will be along with good advice.

Be strong.


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## LetDownNTX

Im sorry you are here but glad that you found us because there is some amazing advice to be given here.

It seems like she has been fishing your entire relationship. 

I will tell you the best thing you can do is not beg, not show her you even care. Cut off all her finances. Im evil but if that ******* called my house while I was home I'd break the damn phone while he was on it. Make sure you cut off her money before you do that so she cant buy another one. Let him buy it for her.


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## Dad&Hubby

So what image of your wife do you want to focus on.

The woman who has constantly been screwing around.

or

The woman who says she'll stop in counseling sessions.

The woman you think is your wife isn't the living breathing woman sitting next to you at night. You have an incorrect perception of her wants, motives, desires and dreams.

She has used counseling as a tool to keep you from leaving. You're a great meal ticket.

Have you been a great husband...not necessarily but don't mix the two. Her cheating is it's own issues. Get a divorce ASAP, take some time to learn yourself and learn what value you bring. Get over your computer addiction (that's what it is). Some gaming is fine, but BALANCE. Find balance. Find other hobbies that are out in the air of outdoors.

Have a couple relationships where you can learn how to love and be a good partner again. Then find the love of your life.

PS after your divorce, you WILL meet someone. 95% of the time, that person is going to feel like the love of your life. She won't be. You're going to love her so much because this person will be everything your STBXW ISN'T.


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## Silverlining

I'm sorry you are here...


Your wife is not the same person you fell in love with. She has changed, but you fail to see her for who she really is. She is a woman who's been cheating on you throughout your marriage. 

Unfortunately, she is sexually and emotionally bonded to the OM. She is just biding her time (cake-eating) until the divorce. I think this maybe an exit affair. 

My only advice to you is do a hard 180, kick her out of the house, separate all finances and cancel all joint credit cards. The sooner she realizes the hard facts the sooner she will snap out of her affair fog. 

Unfortunately your wife has never experienced any tough consequences of her cheating. If this was done the first time, maybe you wouldn't be here today. Did you expose her cheating 
to family and friends? 

Counseling is futile as long as she is seeing and communicating with OM. 

As long as she is living in the marital home demand no contact, otherwise she can move out.


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## mahike

Your wife does not see consequences for her actions. She is treating you like a doormat. Your WW and that POS OM are not afraid of you or what you may do. You may want to R with your wife but she needs to know that you will walk or better yet make her take a walk.

I would file for D right now. You do not have to go through with it but it will let her know that you are serious. You need to expose the A. Tell her parents and your parents and does that POS have a wife or a GF? Tell them and tell your friends. She will scream and yell and call you an SOB and she will never work things out with you. That is right out of the cheaters play book. You are shaken her out of this fog she is in. Right now everything is OK because you have not dumped her stuff on the street.

Tell her you want a NC letter right now and you are going to send it. She gives you all emails and passwords and you will be looking at her phone whenever you would like.

Did you get checked for STD’s you need to and make her go and give you the results. I would be a hundred to one she had unprotected sex with this guy and you have no idea where his junk has been already


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## Shaggy

HAve you exposed the affair? Especially expose the OM?


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## Calibre12

You are seeing her in a "betrayal fog" right now...causes you to kinda glamorize her. It will fade if you decide to stay in the present conditions with her blatant disrespect and disregard. Your reality will hit but it will be prolonged pain and delayed healing with never-ending episodes of starting over. If you lay down your boundaries right now and show NO further tolerance of her behavior as painful as it will be for you, you will begin to heal after going through the stages of grief. You have to realize that what you are going through is *temporary*. If you release you truest feelings to her right now, she will have the upper hand, trample them and continue to hurt you in a false R. Many here have proven that a BS's decisive action and strong boundaries at the onset lead to a genuine R. She is in a fog of 'their' own and will either snap out of it or ride the karma bus. You are in the right place here at TAM and at this precise moment in time. I am a BS who found TAM two years later than I wish I had and made all the mistakes which I am surviving in today (rather than thriving).


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## walkonmars

The more you chase her the faster she will run. It's a fact that you are discovering. So stop chasing. 

Also, because you are chasing her and begging, pleading, trying to make deals, going to counseling, etc you are telling her that what she is doing is okay. It's just something that she has a choice to do. 

Yes, I know you flew off the handle. So you want to say that you don't approve. You're wrong. Words mean very little. Words that are said loudly or in anger mean even less. It's actions that count. 

You need to face the fact that she's moving away. Do what LetDownNTX and the others have said. Let her go. She doesn't love you and it looks like she hasn't in a long, long, time. She has kept fishing for someone else and settled for you until she's found the 'right one'. She thinks she found him now. 

Face it, even if she gets dumped by this guy she is going to keep fishing. 

It's way past time for you to work on yourself. Read the 180 (click 180 on my sig), read the books others will recommend. Once you become grounded in yourself as a man of confidence, integrity, and secure in who you are, you will become attractive to her and to many, many other women who are looking for a man like that. 

Look to the future. Learn from the past. Let her go.


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## Hardtohandle

Thanks for the responses. 

ATM I am trying to be very civil because she agreed to a divorce which is favorable to me in the long run. 

On top of this I am a Police Officer and she could really make some big trouble for me if things went sour. I don't want to jeopardize my job as well or get in some trouble with work. So I am sort of stuck at playing the nice guy. Unfortunately I have a multifamily home which my mother lives in. She could make it so bad that they would throw me out of my own home. I honestly don't have any place to go or afford to go. I would default on the mortgage by the end of the month if I had to rent an apartment.

I intended on spilling the beans once she signs the papers that are being drawn up. 

As for as the computer goes. I haven't touched it since. 

The Counselor as well tells me that my wife is making a mistake and that she will realize this once she moves out and has to pay her own bills and work full time. She also agrees that this relationship will fizzle out because of his possessive behavior. 

Side story regarding OM. Last saturday she was at Counseling and he couldn't get a hold of her. He called the house phone pissed off and upset and was asking to talk to her. I hung up and called the Counselor to tell her what had just happen. Once she called him he played it off like all was cool. Which of course doesn't make sense. But she wants to believe what she wants to at this time.

I clearly understand I should have done more. Don't get me wrong we went out and such. I took care of my kids. But I understand I was over the top on the computer thing. And I understand she should have just talked to me about it instead of doing this.

I hear everything you all are saying and I admit I have a hard time trying to swallow it all. It just kills me that 20 years is down the tubs. 

I know the only person that will suffer here are the kids.


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## Hardtohandle

Shaggy said:


> HAve you exposed the affair? Especially expose the OM?


One of her cousins knows about it and her brother. 

The OM is 53 and never married and never had kids. From what I seen on facebook with my undercover account is that his family doesn't care. They are just happy he found true love.


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## Kasler

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> ATM I am trying to be very civil because *she agreed to a divorce which is favorable to me in the long run.*
> 
> On top of this I am a Police Officer and she could really make some big trouble for me if things went sour. I don't want to jeopardize my job as well or get in some trouble with work. So I am sort of stuck at playing the nice guy. Unfortunately I have a multifamily home which my mother lives in. She could make it so bad that they would throw me out of my own home. I honestly don't have any place to go or afford to go. I would default on the mortgage by the end of the month if I had to rent an apartment.
> 
> I intended on spilling the beans once she signs the papers that are being drawn up.
> 
> As for as the computer goes. I haven't touched it since.
> 
> The Counselor as well tells me that my wife is making a mistake and that she will realize this once she moves out and has to pay her own bills and work full time. She also agrees that this relationship will fizzle out because of his possessive behavior.
> 
> Side story regarding OM. Last saturday she was at Counseling and he couldn't get a hold of her. He called the house phone pissed off and upset and was asking to talk to her. I hung up and called the Counselor to tell her what had just happen. Once she called him he played it off like all was cool. Which of course doesn't make sense. But she wants to believe what she wants to at this time.
> 
> I clearly understand I should have done more. Don't get me wrong we went out and such. I took care of my kids. But I understand I was over the top on the computer thing. And I understand she should have just talked to me about it instead of doing this.
> 
> I hear everything you all are saying and I admit I have a hard time trying to swallow it all. It just kills me that 20 years is down the tubs.
> 
> I know the only person that will suffer here are the kids.


Ha ha ha ha :rofl:

Thats a good one, wait till she talks to her lawyer. 

WWs for some reason always use the "Lets have an amicable divorce" or "Its my fault, you deserve better, I don't need much" and then you find out from her laywer she wants alimony, the house, stay on your health insurance until the end of 2016, half your 401k, half of any and all inheritance, etc.

You need to start protecting yourself. Don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth until you have a signed settlement. And don't fall for any mediation crap.

Have you retained a lawyer?


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## Hardtohandle

I'm going to have to suck it up and just do the 180. My brother was telling me the same. 

This just all threw me for a loop and caught me off guard.

But I agree with what everyone is saying. She doesn't care. I just need to be stronger I guess.


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## Hardtohandle

Kasler said:


> Ha ha ha ha :rofl:
> 
> Thats a good one, wait till she talks to her lawyer.
> 
> WWs for some reason always use the "Lets have an amicable divorce" or "Its my fault, you deserve better, I don't need much" and then you find out from her laywer she wants alimony, the house, stay on your health insurance until the end of 2016, half your 401k, half of any and all inheritance, etc.
> 
> You need to start protecting yourself. Don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth until you have a signed settlement. And don't fall for any mediation crap.
> 
> Have you retained a lawyer?


Yes. 

We honestly don't have anything but debt. 

I will see when the paper work is done, what she does. I did tell her if we have to spend 50k or 60k for lawyers that I will want the full service and will fight for everything including the kids. 

The one thing I can see is she does not want to drag the kids into this, which might be a blessing.

I put her through school and she has a dental Hygienist license. My lawyer basically says she doesn't touch my pension and we don't touch her license. 

She didn't understand her license was worth something. Plus I'm letting her walk away from all the debt. So she will get child support and 45k from my defferred comp.


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## walkonmars

Hardtohandle

I know this is of little or no comfort to you. But if you read the introductory post of the threads on just one page of this board you will discover that what you are going through is very common. 

The age range for your wife is about right. The excuses vary; not enough attention, always working, too much attention, not working, overweight, it goes on and on. 

They are all EXCUSES. Nothing but excuses. If you had never touched the computer during your marriage it would have been something as trivial as "you never, ever, not once, put the toilet seat down!" 

And you would think back and say "you know. you're right! I'm scum. I wished I had put the toilet seat down. Damn me to hell!"

So you were on the computer while Mother Teresa tended to the ills of society - but forgot to tell you to get off the friggin' computer and put the toilet seat down. 

It wasn't that. Not at all. She got restless. She got bored. She doubted her attractiveness (no matter if she was playboy material - she doubted it). 

She's not into you. You can and will come out of this. She will awaken one morning and wonder why she did this.


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## LetDownNTX

walkonmars said:


> If you had never touched the computer during your marriage it would have been something as trivial as "you never, ever, not once, put the toilet seat down!"
> 
> And you would think back and say "you know. you're right! I'm scum. I wished I had put the toilet seat down. Damn me to hell!"
> 
> So you were on the computer while Mother Teresa tended to the ills of society - but forgot to tell you to get off the friggin' computer and put the toilet seat down.



HAHAHA, isnt this the truth!! Thank goodness no tea this time!


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## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> Hardtohandle
> 
> I know this is of little or no comfort to you. But if you read the introductory post of the threads on just one page of this board you will discover that what you are going through is very common.
> 
> The age range for your wife is about right. The excuses vary; not enough attention, always working, too much attention, not working, overweight, it goes on and on.
> 
> They are all EXCUSES. Nothing but excuses. If you had never touched the computer during your marriage it would have been something as trivial as "you never, ever, not once, put the toilet seat down!"
> 
> And you would think back and say "you know. you're right! I'm scum. I wished I had put the toilet seat down. Damn me to hell!"
> 
> So you were on the computer while Mother Teresa tended to the ills of society - but forgot to tell you to get off the friggin' computer and put the toilet seat down.
> 
> It wasn't that. Not at all. She got restless. She got bored. She doubted her attractiveness (no matter if she was playboy material - she doubted it).
> 
> She's not into you. You can and will come out of this. She will awaken one morning and wonder why she did this.


01/18/13

I truly hear and agree with what your saying. Unfortunately my feelings are crushing me. I just am having a hard time accepting she is leaving with my kids. I just love her and my kids so much. 

I stood at my door one morning and heard nothing but silence and it hit me. That is how it is going to be everyday when I come home from work, excluding the times the kids might be there. The silence was deafening. 

The paperwork for the divorce is done and I go see the lawyer today to review it. If its all good I can get her and get it signed.

It just kills me when I read stories where a spouse didn't love the other spouse but stuck it out and found they eventually did love that person. Or when cheating spouse hears about the fog and relates to it and uses to fix the marriage. 

I just wish that could me.

I tell you I far from religious. I even made fun of people spending their time on church on sunday. Well go figure I found religion now. What I never did on sunday, I am now doing everyday. Praying my wife comes to her senses and doesn't leave.

what a fool I feel like. 

With counseling and good friends for support and this site, I still am having a hard time coping with this. Mind you I cried through this whole posting. I'm just being honest.


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## Hardtohandle

I understand I didn't give her the attention I should have. 

She admits she messed up big time. I just wish we both could just understand our mistakes and move on from this as a family. 

I have read about so many people who did this successfully. I just would like to be one of them myself.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Women love a strong man, not a weak man whom its very easy to manipulate and cuckold.

Change your strategy of being nice. become a real alpha male who dont give a **** about her.


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## Hardtohandle

I think and hope I have made it to the breaking point or over the hump.

Saturday our truck, which will be my wife's after the divorce got a flat tire. I have a bad back and was going for a MRI saturday to see what the heck is going on and fix it. 

She wakes me up and tells me at 8 AM about the flat. I offer to drive her to work. On the way she tells me if I could call AAA to help change the tire. I kindly tell her, this is something you need to learn how to do, so when I'm not around you know what to do. Plus I have a doctors appointment to go to. She seems slightly miffed but doesn't complain, I can just tell.

When I pull over I tell her have a nice day, she exits and mutters something, she said "you too" but since she cannot look at me anymore it was hard to hear. 

She gets home we call AAA I have her do it but she is not on the policy so I have to do the talking. I tell her lets go by the truck and hang out wait for this guy. We go to the truck and I talk a bit and I notice she is just looking out the window. Oddly enough my brother had a similar situation with his wife and expressed to me how his wife of 25 years just shut him out like he didn't exist anymore and wouldn't look at him either when interacting with him.

I tell my wife nothing to say ? she says I don't feel like talking, I really don't have anything to say.

I admit it got me upset and I told her to she could just go back to the house I could sit there by myself and deal with this. I told her 2 other times to leave before she left. I then got more pissed and went back to the house to tell her to do it herself.

Of course minutes later I cooled off and went to handle this. 

Oddly enough I expressed to her Friday how she treats me like Cr.ap and acts as if I Cheated on her. Of course this didn't register.

It became very apparent and clear my wife is decent with me when she needs something but soon as its over I'm Mr pay no mind. 

I get the whole she has a boyfriend and is in this "Fog", but I tell her wouldn't it benefit her just to be a bit nice, just in case she needs something from in the future. That I might just remember what a Douche.Bag she was treating me like and that I might not help. 

I am so extremely amazed how much my wife fits into this whole infidelity fog thing. 

Sadly Sunday I told myself I needed to put my feelings aside and grow up a bit ( even at 45 ). I started reflecting back on all she has done to me over the last 5 months and it got me mad for a first time and I wasn't trying to explain it away. 

I gave her the divorce papers Friday early enough in the day and she still has not made any calls to a lawyer that I know of. I will ask her tomorrow night if she made any calls. I am going to guess she will say no. 

I know she is in a tight situation when I am paying every bill and the bank account with 1,500 dollars is down to 500 in 2 weeks. 

She is trying to find more work or full time work. ATM her work is like 5 hours a day but its not always steady work. Though she makes 42 an hour.

End result until she signs the divorce paperwork she will be in the house with me, which makes it a odd situation. I told her to ask her family, brother or boyfriend for 10k and that she can give it back after she gets the 45k from my Deferred Comp. But she won't or they don't have it. 

I do zing her, telling her if her boyfriend "LOVED HER SO MUCH" he would come across with it. When we were dating I put my wife through school and I remind her of that.

So with all that being said if she signs the paper work I could be divorced in just about a month give or take a few days. 

Sadly I think she realizes that even if she gets the 45k, she will run through it just trying to make ends meat even with my child support. 

It's a shame that she couldn't just come to me when she was suppose to, instead of running away. All this is going to do is mess my kids up. 

I do agree and have learned that me begging and pleading even drove her further away from me and annoyed her even more. Shame I just didn't listen to everyone earlier. 

Sadly I love her even though I know she needs to go. Just before I didn't want her to go. I wanted her to wake up and understand. I even printed out something about this whole infidelity fog thing like a jackass thinking she would go "* OMG, Your so right ! Please forgive me." *

I just hate at the age of 45 and when I was just about to retire and move away with my family to spend the rest of my life fixing my marriage. That now I'm back to dating. 

And yea I'm mad, annoyed and even jealous that my wife has someone and its not me.

End result now I am walking a fine line of trying to polite but stern she signs and gets out.


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## StillLife

HardtoHandle, I'm going through and have gone so much of the same stuff. Five months ago I found out my wife was having an ongoing, heated online affair. Found out, started to leave, and she begged me to reconcile, and after much dragging of feet to get the affair to end on both the part of his wife and by myself. 

We had a really crappy year, including her going through thyroid cancer treatment. The day after I drove her home and had to be out of the house while she was radiated, I now know she almost immediately started a heated online affair with another guy. Not only had she done that, but going back to just a couple months after I thought she was done with the first affair, she resumed some of the same behaviors that had led to it in the first place, including hanging out online in this game with another man I know she was having at least a light inappropriate relationship with.

I fell into the trap like you did. I asked her how she could be doing this, I begged her to wake up, I tried my hardest to hang on for the good of our children and what I thought was a lifelong commitment. She had me believing she wanted to reconcile, was asking me to come back home, was telling me she had stopped talking to the guy, etc. But I found out not only was she not done talking to him, but she had upped the ante into putting on full on cam shows for him.

Through it all, the first affair and the second, she was blaming me for the faults in the marriage. Like a sucker, I had bought into them and was working my ass off to improve things including getting us into counselling and really working on myself, all the while it was just a fake R on her side and she was doing nothing on her end to fix things.

I made the same mistake of telling myself that she was still a good woman, was just confused, and it was my job to try to get her to wake up. Like other posters have pointed out to you, I was fooling myself. I was clinging to something I had created in my mind. The reality is a good woman would not be doing these things to her marriage and her family. Even if I was the worst husband in the world, which I'm not - there's just no justification other than the fact she is selfish and has far less of a conscious than I, or I'd like to think most people, possess. The truth is I may have had made my own mistakes, including playing an online game way too much in the first year of our marriage, but I turned those flaws around on my own to make her happy. I am a great husband and was a fool to allow her to make me believe otherwise, to blameshift and maker her choices my fault, which is still her default any time our relationship comes up.

Like you, one of the things that gets me is how she has just completely shut off any emotional connection now. I exposed the hell out of her affair to many people, including her mother, which infuriated her. I also told the OM (some young carefree ********* in Ireland ) that she had been reconciling, even making love while she was having her relationship with him. I think all of that pushed her even further away, but I'm glad I did it. People don't get to just walk all over others like this and get off scott free.

It's funny, because she can turn on the friendly charm when she needs me to do something and there have been a few times I let my low self esteem allow me to help her like fixing the toilet, going to feed her cat while she's out of town with the kids. But I realized last night, no more. She wanted to throw our marriage away for online friends and an online relationship? Get them to do the heavy lifting. See how wonderful of friends they are then, because words are easy, it's the actions other people are willing to do on our behalf that make them true friends. I'm sure my refusal to help her with anything that doesn't have to do with the kids will piss her off, but too bad. She chose to end this marriage as brutally and horrible as possible, and her days of playing me for a sucker and using me for anything are over.

One thing I'm questioning myself on now though, is what another poster in this thread pointed out: she claims she wants an amicable divorce and feels like we can be mature enough to work it out on our own. I wanted the same to save on legal fees and the like, but now I have to really examine if she is just playing me for a fool again.

Anyway, hang in there. You're further along in the divorce process than I am. Don't waver, you deserve better than this woman. Hell, I'd say most people deserve better than to be with someone who could take something like marriage so lightly and toss it aside so easily. Even considering the children like I have to, we deserve better than this. Your job is to love your children and do the best you can for them, not suffer through an *unnecessary* hell for them.


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## Hardtohandle

Taken by Ra from Duality album 
Start again by Red from the Innocence and instinct album

These songs pretty much sum up how I felt through all of this.

Thanks StillLife and I'm sorry for your pain as well.


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## Hardtohandle

01/24/13

Yesterday and today was/is another hard day. I gave her the divorce papers last friday. She has an appointment tuesday with her lawyer to look them over. 

I just feel sad. Crying. Praying she will change her mind. Its painful. I need to work but I just can't put my mind into my work. 

I don't cry in front of her. I keep a stiff upper lip. 

Everyone keeps saying it will hit her once this other guy is out of her life. I don't think so, I don't see that anymore. 

Someone said it best when they described this like grieving over a loved one that just died. Thats what I feel like. 

I try to hate her, I try to get mad. But I just can't. 

We don't talk at all when we are in the house together. 

I just hate these roller coaster emotions. Its like I'm back to square one. 

I just hope we can get this done fast enough and she can go so I can heal. I know seeing my kids go will kill me even more. Just thinking about it makes me cry. 

I just feel like I'm in Limbo. My wife has someone and is all happy and I'm just slipping into a bottomless pit. 

I just never want to feel like this again, it's too much.


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## The Cro-Magnon

walkonmars said:


> Hardtohandle
> 
> I know this is of little or no comfort to you. But if you read the introductory post of the threads on just one page of this board you will discover that what you are going through is very common.
> 
> The age range for your wife is about right. The excuses vary; not enough attention, always working, too much attention, not working, overweight, it goes on and on.
> 
> They are all EXCUSES. Nothing but excuses. If you had never touched the computer during your marriage it would have been something as trivial as "you never, ever, not once, put the toilet seat down!"
> 
> And you would think back and say "you know. you're right! I'm scum. I wished I had put the toilet seat down. Damn me to hell!"
> 
> So you were on the computer while Mother Teresa tended to the ills of society - but forgot to tell you to get off the friggin' computer and put the toilet seat down.
> 
> It wasn't that. Not at all. She got restless. She got bored. She doubted her attractiveness (no matter if she was playboy material - she doubted it).
> 
> She's not into you. You can and will come out of this. She will awaken one morning and wonder why she did this.


Dead set, this is an awesome post


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## walkonmars

So sorry hardtohandle,
You have to let go of the dream. Grieve, reflect, and pity her. She's a sad creature. Click on the two links on my sig line.

The first is for you to start the hesling process. Begin by detaching completely.

The second is from your wife. Its a msg she's going to write in 3 or 4 years. Read it carefully. And pity the fool.


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## Kasler

Sorry hard to handle, but its not up to you anymore.

Sorry, but wife is no good. The ones that just act like you're invisible are the worst. I think even if she did have an epiphany one day it'd be in your best interest to ignore as this would only happen a second time.


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## Hardtohandle

I've done the 180 somewhat.

We don't talk to each other so that is easy. 

My friends have taken me out on the weekends and I have had 1030 PM therapy sessions one a week on different days, so by the time I get home its past midnight. She has no clue where I am going or whom I am with. 

I changed my friends name to a females name and gave it a harp ring tone at the suggestion of a female co worker. She tells me my wife might not ACT like she cares but she does. He calls me a couple times a week. Usually I have him call before a session so it seems like I'm going out to meet this women.


As for that story. I seen it yesterday. I printed it out and brought it home to show my wife. Yes I'm a sap... 

She read it and just about had a smirk on her face as if what a joke this is. It crushed me, but I didn't show it. 

Sadly I have to suk all this stuff up. If I was joe the plumber I could do more. But because I'm a Cop she can really ruin the only thing I have left, which is my job and career. I can't afford to loose my job or get in trouble at work. It's about the only thing keeping me sane. I don't even bring my guns home anymore or have access to them without a bosses knowing just to protect myself from false allegations of me threatening her with my gun. Sadly I have seen other friends go through this and get those types of allegations. Even when the spouse is caught lying nothing is done to them for the false allegation.

She just needs to leave. I just hope the 45k I am giving her clears fast enough and not that I have to wait another month for that to clear.


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## walkonmars

Please, please, please try to memorize the way she smirked. That way you can remember her face clearly when things fall apart for her.


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## martyc47

Ok. I read this a few days ago but didn't comment because it appeared you wanted the divorce and were ok with that resolution. At least that's what it seemed to me by the actions- resolved and enabling of a fast divorce without putting up much of a fight.
Now there's talk of wishing she would change her mind. So which is it? Because it least from what I've read I don't get the impression that anything has been done other than submitting to her wishes. She's leaving, gets the kids by default, "agreeable divorce" etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

Love is blind. I get that & I get that you still love her and are in tremendous pain. I think, though, that she is a terrible human being.


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## warlock07

Wow Dude. You are the definition of Beta(I'm not big into these terms but you almost come off as a stereotype..)

She thinks you are a joke and to be honest you are acting like one. Her OM had the gall to call you at your home to ask for her.



> He called the house phone pissed off and upset and was asking to talk to her. I hung up and called the Counselor to tell her what had just happen


What is this ? A primary school ? And to think you are a cop...You seriously need to find some balls.

Who is this OM? is he single?


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## Kasler

Wow OM called HIM to get to her? 

He must think you are biggest pvssy/cuckold on the face of this earth if he did that. And I'm imagining your wife shaes that view if she had the audacity to sneer at your attempts t get through to her. 

How exactly are you hard to handle? So far all I've seen is acquiescence to her every want and a futile wish of things being different. 

I understand that you want it one way, but its the other way and theres nothing you can do about it. 

You need to man up. And screw when its convenient for her, kick her out and reclaim your stolen manhood.


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## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> 01/24/13
> 
> Yesterday and today was/is another hard day. I gave her the divorce papers last friday. She has an appointment tuesday with her lawyer to look them over.
> 
> I just feel sad. Crying. Praying she will change her mind. Its painful. I need to work but I just can't put my mind into my work.
> 
> I don't cry in front of her. I keep a stiff upper lip.
> 
> Everyone keeps saying it will hit her once this other guy is out of her life. I don't think so, I don't see that anymore.
> 
> Someone said it best when they described this like grieving over a loved one that just died. Thats what I feel like.
> 
> I try to hate her, I try to get mad. But I just can't.
> 
> We don't talk at all when we are in the house together.
> 
> I just hate these roller coaster emotions. Its like I'm back to square one.
> 
> I just hope we can get this done fast enough and she can go so I can heal. I know seeing my kids go will kill me even more. Just thinking about it makes me cry.
> 
> I just feel like I'm in Limbo. My wife has someone and is all happy and I'm just slipping into a bottomless pit.
> 
> I just never want to feel like this again, it's too much.


Dear Hth,

Let's start by putting your situation in perspective. None of your children have died. You have not been diagnosed with terminal cancer. You do not live in an impoverished or oppressed nation with no hope for the future. Actually, despite your present difficulties, you have a life that billions of fellow human being would swap theirs for in a heartbeat if they could. So stop looking at this as the end of the world and start counting your blessings.

You are at the beginning of a new journey that will change your life. You can choose to look at that as "bad news" but it may also be "good news," depending on how you respond. If you take charge and start doing _what you need to do_, I can all but guarantee that you will end up with a much better life than you ever had before.

I'll describe in a minute the things you should do now, but let me first explain why you need to do them. Basically, your goal should be to make yourself into the best man you can be. If you do this, one of two things will happen (or maybe both): (1) you will attract desirable woman and eventually find one who appreciates you, loves you and wants to spend her life with you or (2) your WW will come out of her fog, realize what she is losing and desperately want you to take her back. You will regain your confidence and life will be fun again. You will make new friends, do many more fun things than you ever did before and be more successful professionally. Your children will respect you more. You will find life more satisfying and fulfilling than ever before. OK, I know this sounds like an infomercial for some wacky diet plan but, trust me, it's true.

What do you need to do? It's all about the three A's: appearance, attitude and actions.

Appearance

I put appearance first on the list because it's the easiest category of things you can do right now to improve your life.

There's an old saying that "appearance is everything." While this is a bit of an overstatement, it nevertheless holds a lot of truth. Human beings react to others' appearance -- and this is the important point -- _the way people react to us affects us profoundly_. It's no coincidence that good looking people generally have a better self-image: people treat them better so they feel better about themselves. Thus, our appearance is critical to our mental well-being.

The goal is to be as physically attractive as possible, to both men and woman, young and old, friends and foes. The more attractive you are, the better people will treat you -- all people. The better people treat you, the better you will feel about yourself. The better you feel about yourself, the more able you will be to make the other changes that you need to make in your life to be happy.

There are four aspects of attractiveness: health, physical fitness, dress and grooming. Let's take them in the reverse order.

Good grooming is the easist way of improving your attractiveness and showing others that you respect yourself. I assume you know what a well-groomed man looks like (good haircut, shaved, teeth brushed, nails clean, etc.). Make this the first thing you do everyday so that everybody (including your WW and children) always see you in the best light.

Dress is also important. You don't have to look like a million bucks but you should look good. That means wearing stylish clothes that project the proper image. Again, you need to dress well for all occasions, even if you're just kicking around the house. Your WW, your children, your family and friends and even strangers need to see you as a well-dressed man at all times.

Physical fitness is important because a lean, muscular guy gets more respect from everybody, and the respect of others translates into more self-respect. Being physically fit isn't hard, but it does require self-discipline, effort and consistency. Lay off the booze, eat well, exercise regularly, get enough sleep. These things may be hard right now but, if you really try, they will become easier over time and the rewards will be amazing.

Finally, health. If you have any health problems, now is the time to address them. Sick people are just not attractive, nor do they have the strength and stamina to make improvements in their lives.

Attitude

I know what you are going through is playing havoc with your emotions and this will continue for quite some time. But, as human beings, we all have the ability to put on a face to mask our pain and disappointment. It's easier for some than for others but everybody can do it if they really want to. As Shakespeare said, "All the worlds a stage and all men and woman ... players." Attitude is all about acting the part that's right for you.

What should your attitude be right now? You should project personal integrity, warmth and kindness, emotional and physical strength and stoic indifference to your personal problems. I know, you don't feel like this but, trust me, if you play the part, your feelings will actually change.

Your WW should see a man whose attitude says, 

"I'm disappointed with what you've done but I understand that there is nothing more I can do to win you back so I'm going to get on with my life. I don't hate you for this and I even understand that I failed you in some ways. But you're the one that decided to cheat and, in the end, you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. I wish to get along with you for the sake of our children, whom we both love. But I will not let what you've done prevent or what you do in the future me from being happy. If you need something from me, I will give it to you if I can, but not at the expense of my own needs. I wish you happiness and hope that you wish the same for me."

Your children should see man whose attitude says,

"I love you very much and will always be here for you. I am sad about what has happened between your mother and me but I will not let that affect in any way how I treat you. I still respect your mother and want her to be a part of your lives. I will do what I can to comfort you but I will also expect you to make good decisions and act appropriately at all times. I am and always will be your father and you are and always will be my children, and there is no power on earth that can ever change that. You can trust and rely on me.'

Your family, friends and colleagues should see a man whose attitude says,

"My wife has dishonored her marriage vows and shown no remorse despite my attempts to win her back. Therefore, I have no choice but to divorce her and get on with my life. I will continue to be a good father to my children. I will also continue to meet my professional and personal obligations. I am strong and dependable and will get through this just fine. I am confident that, eventually, I will be happy again. While I am naturally disappointed with what has happened, I am at peace with myself and the world."

And, most importantly, _you_ should see a man whose attitude says,

"I can deal with the pain this has caused me because I must for the sake of my children and, most importantly, for myself. I may cry from time to time but I will do it in private. I may get angry at times but I will never let my anger show. I am unsure of the future but I will move forward in confidence because I have already proved to myself that I can face up to life's challenges and overcome adversity. I will do my best to treat others, even my WW, in the way that I wish to be treated. I will always try to act in a way that I can look myself in the mirror in the morning and say, I did my best no matter what adversity life threw at me. If I make a mistake or fail in any way, I will admit it, learn from it, pick myself up and do better the next time. I will live my life, grateful for what I have and not complaining about what I don't. I will be the best man I can be, not only for myself but for all the people who love and depend on me."

This is the attitude that you need to project to the world. At first, it will be hard and you will slip up often. But you'll get better at it and, eventually, it will become easier. Why? Because eventually you will begin to believe it and your attitude really will change.

Here's a tip. If you're ever in a quandary over how to deal with a situation, think about an actor or two who played roles you really admire. For an old guy like me, it's John Wayne (the strong, silent type) and Cary Grant (the devil-may-care sophisticate). When I'm in a situation and am not sure what my attitude should be, I ask myself how they would they have reacted. It's amazing how quickly it helps you figure things out.

Here's another tip. Smile a lot. A smile denotes happiness and contentment. People react positively to a smile. And a smile can disarm many a difficult situation.

Actions

Sorry, but I need to give you another adage: "Actions speak louder than words." No truer statement was ever uttered. It is not what we say but what we do that reveals our goals, values and character. I left this for last because it is the hardest part of our lives to change, precisely because our actions are a reflection of our goals, values and character. A dishonest person finds it difficult to be truthful, a self-centered person difficult to be kind to others, etc. Nevertheless, despite our failings, we can -- if we try -- begin to act in a manner that more closely resembles the person we want to be and, in the process, we can actually change ourselves. The thing to understand is that action proceeds change, not other way around. We don't start doing the right thing because we've changed, we begin to change when we start doing the right thing.

So, if for example we want to be happy, we have to do the things that happy people do. You're not happy right now, but nothing prevents you from doing the things that will make you happy. Perhaps it's spending more time with your children, or being more socially engaged with family and friends, or becoming active in community service or charitable work, or playing sports, or ... well, you know better than I what will make you happy. The point is to start doing the things you would do if you were happy with your life and, lo and behold, you will actually start to be happier.

As I said, this is the hardest of the three A's but, ultimately, this is what you are working toward. Appearance and attitude lay the groundwork for your return to a happy life, but you won't get there until your start to _live_ a happy life. And there's no reason you can't start living it now, if only in a small way (taking baby steps at first).

Of course, do not lose sight of your two main responsibilities -- your children and your profession. Do the things a good father does -- spend time with your kids, do fun things and be patient with them. And be the best police officer you can be. Not only can you take enormous pride in your work -- I and I'm sure everybody on TAM admires you for it -- you will advance your career to the benefit of your children and the person who you eventually decide to share your life with.

This may sound like a daunting list of tasks but, if you think about it, you will realize that you've been doing most of it all your life. You just need to refocus and improve in the areas where you were a bit lacking. Having a conscious plan of improvement will help take your mind off your problems better than any drugs or counseling could do (although, if you need counseling, don't be afraid to get it). Don't just think about what you need to do, write it down, keep a list, check it from time to time to help yourself stay on track. When you've gotten comfortable with one goal, move on to another. Keep making progress. Don't just sit around thinking about your problems, do something about them.

It's your life. Begin to live it the way you want, starting with small improvements. As Lao-Tzu said, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Take the first step today.


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> Wow Dude. You are the definition of Beta(I'm not big into these terms but you almost come off as a stereotype..)
> 
> She thinks you are a joke and to be honest you are acting like one. Her OM had the gall to call you at your home to ask for her.
> 
> 
> 
> What is this ? A primary school ? And to think you are a cop...You seriously need to find some balls.
> 
> Who is this OM? is he single?


I don't know what beta means at the time I post this but I will look it up. 

Trust me when I say if anyone makes even the slightest allegations against me I'm done at work. I'm close to a promotion and I will loose it if I get jammed up. 

I understand this stuff is hard to swallow, if I was joe the plumber she could call the cops all she wants my boss wouldn't fire me or what not. But as they say we are set to a higher standard. My job wants to cover their ass as well. They will put me in a office with no windows counting paper for years or until they think its all okay. I've seen a guy for 5 years just sweeping floors. When I first met him I didn't even know he was a cop. I thought he was a civilian cleaner. 

Legally I cannot throw her out. Again hello 911 my husband the cop threw me out of the house. End result they will toss me out and give her an order of protection to keep me away. 

Unfortunately I have an elderly mother and a sick brother I help out, they live in that home as well. Its multifamily. I cannot afford rent and to pay the bills for that home. If it went that bad. I would have to retire and sell the home to protect my pension and not risk loosing the house. That in turn would force me to move away from my kids. Something I would hate and not want to do.

Sadly I have seen terrible things happen to guys going through this on my job. I have 23 years on this job and a perfect record. I want to keep it that way. Its the only thing I have that keeps me sane ATM. 

The OM is single 53 year old man who has never been married or had kids. so there is nobody to out him to.

I believe in Karma. I truly do. 

I don't cry in front of her. As I said we don't even talk. If we do I am civil and polite.

@ Carmen Ohio

Thank you. 

I am listening to what people tell me. 

Tuesday she will see her lawyer and we will see what issues we have. Hopefully we can both agree on something and she can move out. Not much else I can do atm.


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## Hardtohandle

Kasler said:


> Wow OM called HIM to get to her?
> 
> He must think you are biggest pvssy/cuckold on the face of this earth if he did that. And I'm imagining your wife shaes that view if she had the audacity to sneer at your attempts t get through to her.
> 
> How exactly are you hard to handle? So far all I've seen is acquiescence to her every want and a futile wish of things being different.
> 
> I understand that you want it one way, but its the other way and theres nothing you can do about it.
> 
> You need to man up. And screw when its convenient for her, kick her out and reclaim your stolen manhood.


hard to handle as I in this is hard to handle for me.

I think I addressed your manhood concerns with my previous reply.


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## Hardtohandle

martyc47 said:


> Ok. I read this a few days ago but didn't comment because it appeared you wanted the divorce and were ok with that resolution. At least that's what it seemed to me by the actions- resolved and enabling of a fast divorce without putting up much of a fight.
> Now there's talk of wishing she would change her mind. So which is it? Because it least from what I've read I don't get the impression that anything has been done other than submitting to her wishes. She's leaving, gets the kids by default, "agreeable divorce" etc
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay in my state law wise. Since we agreed that she would be home with the kids and work part time. We made a life choice of me being the bread winner. 

Lesson learned and big mistake. Hindsight is always 20/20.

What that means IF we or I wanted to fight this all out. I would have to pay 10k to 15k as a retainer TO HER LAWYER. The over all fight would cost about 25k to 30k for EACH LAWYER. So I would have to refinance the house to get the 60k minimum. The courts would then determine if my wife could pay the other 10k to 15k. Otherwise they will instruct me to pay it. 

When it is all said and done with the refinance and all the stuff I end up having to give her I would be in the red bill wise. So I will have to sell the home and move away. I have a mother and sick brother that reside in another apartment I care for. 

End result it would force me to move out of state away from my kids. I would have to up and retire from my job as well. End result a complete life change for everyone. On top of all of this the worst thing is now I am away from my kids. I would be that guy that sees his kids during the summer school vacations. I don't want that one bit. 

Financially I have to walk a fine line here. 

I understand she has to leave. I understand that IF she came back right now and I accepted her that NOTHING would be fixed. 

But I can't help being upset that my life went down this road. 

I can't help my feeling for her. She wasn't bad all of the 19 years we were together.

She went from a very caring women to this and throws you off because I never seen her like this. 

I just about spent half my life with her its not that easy at least for me to just let go over a matter of weeks. I'm an emotional guy. I wear my heart on my sleeve, everyone knows it. Its a good thing and its a bad thing.


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## Aunt Ava

I am sorry you are forced into such a horrible situation. Unfortunately, this is an all too common story in police families. Yes, you made serious mistakes, but that does not justify her cheating. You need to understand the wife you married, loved and cherished has died. The shell of a woman that is still living in your home taking every advantage of you is a horrible, selfish alien being. 

Why are you letting her walk away from all the debt? She has an excellent job, the children are old enough she should be able to work while they are in school. 

Will you pursue 50/50 custody? Your sons need you in their lives, now more than ever. The next ten years will shape their entire adult lives, including their relationships, marriages and their children. Hopefully the relationship with the POSOM will crash & burn soon, so he doesn't have too much influence on your sons. Please protect yourself, having a VAR on you at all times would be a good start.


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## walkonmars

Hardtohandle:
It sucks big hairyballs. You seem to have thought all of it through and your decisions make sense to me. I'm not a big fan of hoping for karma - there's too many examples in history of the lack of karma. At least on this Earth. 

Still, you have a future. One you didn't expect. One you were not prepared for. But since it is in the cards. Then make the best of it. Detach from her. Physically, emotionally, mentally. Aunt Ava said it. The woman you once knew, shared dreams with, raised a family with, loved... that woman is gone, gone... gone. 

The creature that looks like your wife is not the one you married. Let her go. The OM isn't married? I hope they do marry. They deserve each other. That's the best kind of "karma" you can expect.


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## Hardtohandle

Aunt Ava said:


> I am sorry you are forced into such a horrible situation. Unfortunately, this is an all too common story in police families. Yes, you made serious mistakes, but that does not justify her cheating. You need to understand the wife you married, loved and cherished has died. The shell of a woman that is still living in your home taking every advantage of you is a horrible, selfish alien being.
> 
> Why are you letting her walk away from all the debt? She has an excellent job, the children are old enough she should be able to work while they are in school.
> 
> Will you pursue 50/50 custody? Your sons need you in their lives, now more than ever. The next ten years will shape their entire adult lives, including their relationships, marriages and their children. Hopefully the relationship with the POSOM will crash & burn soon, so he doesn't have too much influence on your sons. Please protect yourself, having a VAR on you at all times would be a good start.


We did sit down and agree to what we both wanted. We both have agreed to equal and joint custody, but the kids will be with her. 

The kids have no clue what she did and they love their mother. If asked they would want to go with mom. I am the disciplinarian in the home so I'm the bad guy or at least the one that yells. I explained to my oldest ( 12 years old ) why I was a bit off these past few months. I explained I love him and I love his mother. 

My wife did say when we told the kids that she didn't love me anymore and we were getting a divorce. So she did take the blame. I didn't see any sense in telling the kids the truth. One I don't think they would understand and Two I don't think they need to know.

There is more but I will keep tight lipped until Tuesday comes and goes.


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## stuckmick

Heres some advice from someone with experience......THROW HER ASS OUT AND FILE FOR DIVORCE! Take everything you can, file for 59/50 custody . DO IT AND FORGET HER, SHE IS NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. SELF RESPECT OR DIGNITY.
End of sermon / rant.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

Just do what you have to my man.

I see the corner she has you in.

You may not believe this but, as a reformed criminal reprobate, I feel for you.
Best wishes Bro.


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## Hardtohandle

01/27/13 Sunday

I keep coming back and reading for many reasons. To understand, to accept and deal with what is going on. 

Something carmen ohio said stuck with me

"


carmen ohio said:


> I"I'm disappointed with what you've done but I understand that there is nothing more I can do to win you back so I'm going to get on with my life. I don't hate you for this and I even understand that I failed you in some ways. But you're the one that decided to cheat and, in the end, you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. I wish to get along with you for the sake of our children, whom we both love. But I will not let what you've done prevent or what you do in the future me from being happy. If you need something from me, I will give it to you if I can, but not at the expense of my own needs. I wish you happiness and hope that you wish the same for me."


I've come to the very simple realization that my wife is my kryptonite. 

I been fortunate to have very supportive friends. They try to take me out on the weekends though they are married with lives of their own. 

Yesterday I had 3 friends looking to take me out or asking if I stay the night at their house just to get out of my house.

When I go out I have no issues. I see women, I'm confident. I'm no fashion model, but I'm no fool. I'm 6'3" with a flat stomach ( due to divorce diet ) and I'm not a shy guy. Of course having the other guy be the wing man is great as well. 

But the next day when I see her my chest aches and my chest tightens up. 

She has lost some weight herself, not that see was heavy in the first place and honestly for 48 years old she is very good looking. Even my friends say or admit that is one issue which is hard to deal with. 

Again I know it doesn't mean anything. But it doesn't help. 

I clearly understand she needs to Go. I know it is the only absolute way I can heal. 

Right now I go nuts with wondering where she is when I know she should have been home 40 minutes ago. Its retarded and I know. 

I don't give her the satisfaction of seeing any of these emotions.

When I go out she has zero clue who I am with.

We did get into a slight argument yesterday. 

One statement she said to me was she told her close relatives what had happen and admitted she was wrong and that their is nothing she can do about how she feels now. She doesn't love me and she is sorry. 

I do notice she seems to express that a lot. That seems to be her mantra to me. I don't love you, I'm sorry. 

I expressed to her yesterday calmly that I understand what transpired now is out of my hands. But what is upsetting me is that she didn't look to fix this when she was suppose to. 

My brother over heard her conversation with a cousin in which she was expressing she has to be true to herself. 

I used that when talking to her and I said when you were suppose to be true to yourself was when it mattered. When you where fighting with some issues you failed to express or deal with. That she should have looked ahead and seen that our 19 year relationship, our 14 year marriage and our 2 kids were worth fighting for. 

That if she would have tried back when it mattered that no one could fault her if it never worked out. Because she tried.

But she never tried and that it has nothing to do with not loving me. Because if it was as simple as that, I said you could have just left. But the reality is you found someone else and did what you did and then dragged me around for some unknown reason that you can't even explain to me and along the way you did other insensitive things to me as if I was some piece of garbage or some ogre that abused you. 

The reality is you had an affair and fell in love with someone else. Because if it was just the issue of not loving me you could have just left. But its not, you needed another branch to hold onto before of letting go of the other, like a monkey swinging in tree.

I told her that is what I'm angry about. That you never tried or felt this was worth giving a try. 

She got upset when I said she was selfish and didn't think about the kids. She got upset over that and I understand why. 

But simply explained, ask the kids if they want us to get divorced. Ask the kids if they want to move out. 

I explained to her that all of that is what I'm upset over. I've accepted the reality of what is going on now. But regardless I'm mad over this issue. 

But in the end I told her I love her because she is the mother of our kids and I will get over this. But I need time to calm down and I need her to go so I can heal. 

She understood.

I hope that Tuesday doesn't bring a bunch of issues. I'm getting the impression that is won't. I know she needs this money to get out and I want to get this done so the money can be transferred to her ASAP. Waiting another 3 or 4 weeks is going to be painful.

Another thing I am dreading is Valentines day. 

She works until 3-7 on Weds. I plan on working late just not to be around. But I know my mother and brother will get upset if she decides to come home late that day. EG she decides to go out with this guy until 9 or something. 

I'm might just bring it up in a calm manner in the next week to make it clear what I would hope she does on that day to make things easier for everyone. I just don't want a fight to break out between her and my mother or brother. They are keeping tight lipped and polite, but I know its wearing on them and they are upset seeing me get upset.


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## Jasel

You should stop talking to her about your marriage, what worked, what didn't work, who tried what, etc and start moving on.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Jasel said:


> You should stop talking to her about your marriage, what worked, what didn't work, who tried what, etc and start moving on.


I know your right. My friend last night was saying the same thing. 

He was telling me I'm talking to someone who care less at this point and I should do the same. We talked about her and some other issues. I have to say he was making me see she was broken from the beginning and I just didn't see it. 

There are other issues with her that I think will never make her happy no matter who she is with. 

I also see she is always looking to run away to someone older and broken or has some sort of issues of their own. 

From speaking to her brother years ago, I see some of these issues stem from her family. I know her only older brother went to therapy on his own because of family issues for a long time.

The one thing I am happy about is NO ONE, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE can tell me I didn't try. There isn't anything I wouldn't have done to fix this. I would have literally spent the rest of my life making sure we were happy for the sake of her and my kids. 

I'm just sorry she didn't see it that way.


----------



## Hardtohandle

OldWolf57 said:


> Just do what you have to my man.
> 
> I see the corner she has you in.
> 
> You may not believe this but, as a reformed criminal reprobate, I feel for you.
> Best wishes Bro.


Dude after 23 years on this job I have to say **** happens and people make mistakes. 

Its all about if you learn from your mistakes. 

I honestly appreciate you even having telling me that. 

Thank you.


----------



## walkonmars

Hardtohandle said:


> ... I said when you were suppose to be true to yourself was when it mattered. When you where fighting with some issues you failed to express or deal with. That she should have looked ahead and seen that our 19 year relationship, our 14 year marriage and our 2 kids were worth fighting for.
> 
> That if she would have tried back when it mattered that no one could fault her if it never worked out. Because she tried.
> 
> But she never tried and that it has nothing to do with not loving me. Because if it was as simple as that, I said you could have just left. But the reality is you found someone else and did what you did and then dragged me around for some unknown reason that you can't even explain to me and along the way you did other insensitive things to me as if I was some piece of garbage or some ogre that abused you.
> 
> The reality is you had an affair and fell in love with someone else. Because if it was just the issue of not loving me you could have just left. But its not, you needed another branch to hold onto before of letting go of the other, like a monkey swinging in tree.
> 
> I told her that is what I'm angry about. That you never tried or felt this was worth giving a try.
> 
> She got upset when I said she was selfish and didn't think about the kids. She got upset over that and I understand why.
> 
> But simply explained, ask the kids if they want us to get divorced. Ask the kids if they want to move out.
> 
> I explained to her that all of that is what I'm upset over. I've accepted the reality of what is going on now. But regardless I'm mad over this issue.
> 
> But in the end I told her I love her because she is the mother of our kids and I will get over this. But I need time to calm down and I need her to go so I can heal.
> 
> She understood.
> ...


You had a well reasoned and logical argument here. One of the best I've read. Too bad it fell on deaf ears. If she had a conscience she would fall to her knees and beg forgiveness. But don't expect that. She's a reprehensible person who deserves to live in shame. But she won't not for a while. 

You'll survive. Someone else will get the benefit of all you do and are capable of doing. It's your kids who will suffer most. Look out for them - they need a strong role model in their life. You can show them how to handle adversity and thrive. Be that person.


----------



## Hardtohandle

@ Walkonmars or really anyone who has been here long enough to understand the issues the BS deals with. You did mention something like that in the beginning but I never could find it if one does exist. 

But if not then, I think there should be a sticky giving someone an idea of what to possibly expect emotionally. 

I tell you, I think I am getting better then I feel like I'm back at square one. Just last night to this morning I had a very hard time sleeping. 

Granted I do cry much less now. 

The best I can explain this whole ordeal is like being in the movie Groundhogs day, except that I keep reliving my wife telling me she is leaving me and all the pain and heartache that goes along with it. 

I'm still in a daze of I can't believe this is happening to me. 

I guess because I know Tuesday will bring some closure to all of this. I know she will come back with some minor complaints but I know she wants out. 

I also have to say I dread reading post where someone says its been 1 year and I feel the same as D-Day. Because people that respond usually tell them its been 10 years and they still feel the same. I completely understand each person is different, but I hate all the doom and gloom. I know I shouldn't read them but its like a car accident I have to stop and look. 

What I am shocked is that my job has nothing for this. With such a high divorce rate among police officers I just can't believe there is nothing out here in my job to help someone. I know once I am a bit more sane with all of this, the one thing I want to do is help someone else out who might be going through this. 

Once I am done with all legalities of this I will come back and tell what my end story was going to be with my wife. 

Though I know I will be back here crying again, I want to say thanks in advance for all the help everyone at TAM has been.


----------



## Hardtohandle

01/28/13 Monday night

I reached out to a women that I actually broke off the relationship with to be with my wife. At the time she was very secure in herself and was in great shape. Literally had cubes on her stomach. I was a bit intimidated about how squared away she was and I wasn't at the time, even being a cop. 

She has a 6 month old and from the brief online chat I have a feeling she is also a jilted lover. As she said she will tell me her crazy story. Talking to her made me feel much better and level. 

I know me well enough. I'm relationship junkie. I never just dated to mess around or one night stands. I go from one relationship to another. 

I have a feeling she is single and I will know tomorrow for sure when she calls me. I know that things will happen or can happen between us. I'm no fool I know having a crutch will help me out and make me stronger. Just chatting with her online with my wife in the room made me feel like I didn't give a crap about my wife.

But I know it isn't right either to do this. I just know I will take the weaker path on this. 

I know a year from now I will look back at these post and see how crazy I was during this time.

I definitely want to do some sort of support at my job for something like this.


----------



## OldWolf57

Bro, if she is as stabled as you said, then she know of crutches.
Like you said the weaker path MAY be just whats needed at this time
It may be hard to believe, but this may be just the person you need to walk you thru this, and know how to keep things in perpective.

Either way, sending Prayers your way today.


----------



## Aunt Ava

Do you really think its in your best interests to start an emotional affair with this woman? Yes, thats what it is...talking to a person of the opposite sex about intimate details of your life. I know you want someone to talk to, that will give you some ego kibbles. And really, if you stopped seeing her before when you met your wife then you must have thought your wife was a better match for you. Life is about moving forward, not backward. And she has a recent bad break up too. This is a disaster waiting to happen....neither of you are in a position for a new relationship.

Does your department offer EAP? If so, that's a far healthier option. Look around at your fellow officers, I bet you know more than a few that have 2, 3, or even 4 ex wives. Why, because they moved on too fast with the first chick that showed them some love. And after a few years they are over the infatuation and are left wondering why they married this person.


----------



## Hardtohandle

01/29/13 Tuesday

@ aunt eva

I have been talking to friends at work and a few that are divorced.

Oddly enough Just about everyone mentioned that the EX came back looking to reconcile. I don't know if they are just BSing me to make me feel better or being honest. I never asked if they came back it was just part of their story. So I can't see them as BSing me to make me feel happy. 

I was just amazed again how retarded this whole process is. Wife goes into Fog and either is forced to realize and stays or they get divorced. Then they want to come back. 

I know 3 men that have taken their wives back after a year or more. But many had moved on and just didn't want the pain.

As for this girl. I got the story. End result she wanted a kid so she solicited someone to have a child. There is no attachment between her and this man. She has a sitter for the child until she comes home from work. Basically 7 am to 7 pm. Again she is squared away. Single mom handling her business. 

Honestly I'm not looking for EA, but a little PA. .. Sorry being an asshat.

I went after my wife because she was better looking and a bit more sensual in bed. 

My brother told me maybe I stop being so vain and that maybe someone *"less better looking"* might be a bit more caring and trust worthy. That maybe I should look a bit deeper before counting someone out. Oddly enough someone said something similar to me today at work. It was weird I thought him and my brother spoke.

My brother went on to point out a few of my past relationships and showed me how every attractive women I've been with had left me hurting. Whereas the slightly less attractive women I have been with stuck by me and I was the one breaking up with them. It sounds retarded I know, best I could do to summarize what he was saying. 

Unfortunately I am starting to see how I work and the honest hard reality is, I look solely at a women for looks and then I see what they are about inside. As long as they are not crazy or not crazy enough that I don't notice, I fall for them. 

I just don't find anything wrong with a women if I like her. So I fall in love or strong affection for them. Like I mentioned I'm very monogamous when I'm with a women. I don't just date to have sex or one night stands. I don't need a guys night out. I can spend 24x7 with my significant other. 

Another friend of mine waited later in his life to get married. He would tell me the cool thing about being single is either your feast or famine. When you feasted its non stop, but when you hit a dry spell you start to wonder if having a steady girl friend might be better. He admitted he had been lonely from time to time and it was a bit depressing.

I honestly never had a complaint about sex with any women I've been with. Its been steady throughout the relationship. Even with my current wife I was getting it 3 to 4 times a week and she tells me she didn't love me for a year. Go figure. Honestly I might say she was faking some of the time, but I can't imagine she was faking it all the time. We had sex 3 days before the final conflict.

This wife was my crutch for me getting out of my first marriage. 

Honestly my first marriage I was 25 and we dated for 3 months. She proposed to me. Got down on a knee with ring and all. It lasted a year. At least when she broke it off, she was straight and to the point. I want a divorce. There was no one else, she just was done.

It hurt me, It took me 3 months to stop crying. The last cry was in the basement bathroom of the precinct. I still remember it till today. It was weird I just knew that was my last tear for that relationship.

I'm just jump from relationship to relationship. There was a time I dated, but it was only a few months. 

I guess I got some relationship issues myself. It seems I don't like being alone.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I'm wondering should I tell my son soon to be 13 in 3 months that his mother cheated on me / us?

I've read in some other threads that people have. I'm a bit torn because I don't want to pit my kids against their mother. I sure wouldn't want that against me..

I have told him that I am his father and no one else should try to tell him what is good or bad unless its his mother. That if he should see something he doesn't like when he is with his mother that he is free to come here. But that he needs to explain what the issue is with his mother first and see if it can be resolved and not to use this as an excuse if he fights with his mother. 

I admit I am trying to give him the hint that this OM might be moving into the apartment without saying it.

My wife is being vague about that as well. Which means yes.

I explained just like he is leaving me, it does not mean I love him any less and I assume the same of him. End result his mother should not feel bad if he comes here also and that it doesn't mean he loves her any less as well.

I know it would freak her out getting half child support.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I know I'm posting a bunch. 

Just a different thoughts. I don't want to mix them all up..

My wife sort of commented she was broke. Currently I am paying all the bills except for the gas bill which is about 200 a month for the house which I told her she would have to pay if she going to live here until she leaves. 

She also buys food for the kids as I don't use her for anything anymore. 

She needs gas for that truck she has, its a avalanche so it sucks up the gas. 

I told her if she is short to let me know and I would do what I needed. 

I'm not being a sucker. I'm just being a human being. I'm trying to be civil for the kids sake. 

A friend of mine today told me that after 5 months I am starting to sound like my old self again. 

There is other info that I am just keeping close to my chest for a bit more. I'm hoping by end of week or next week to let it out.

As a side note I give this 6 to 8 months after she leaves. It's just a feeling. I think this guy is pushing her to leave. I think he fears the longer she is here that she might change her mind.


----------



## tom67

Dude I know you have to take care of the kids, I get that I have a 15yr old. Why doesn't her new boyfriend take care of HER. I didn't say the kids they are half your responsibility. Just my opinion.


----------



## walkonmars

If others notice that you're being more like your old self, then you probably are starting to heal. It's remarkable that you're willing to help out financially. I'm positive I couldn't do it. I'd hand her a bus schedule or tell her to ask her OM. 

He's getting plenty from her - she should start relying on him. That's her future, and her choice. Spend money on the kids - sure! Her? Not so much. Still I understand your reasoning, just don't agree with it. 

Your brother is very astute in his observations. You need to keep what he said in mind. 

As for telling your older child, why don't you see what your counselor thinks. Your child might be mature enough to understand that the family dynamics will undergo a radical change and understand why. You are doing the right thing in avoiding driving a wedge between mother and child. The kids are the ones who will suffer most. You 'll be fortunate if they don't have a sense of guilt.


----------



## tom67

Show her what her new fantasy life is going to be like.


----------



## Hardtohandle

You know you guys are right. 

If she asks me for anything I'm going to have to sit her down and talk about this guy. I know she does not want to. 

I did mention him on saturday and she said what does he have to do with anything. 

You see to her she feels the only thing he did was give her the courage to tell me she didn't love me. That this was going to happen regardless sooner or later. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else, that she just wasn't happy. 

Matter of fact as I type this I see what a douche I was for even trying to be nice. 

I'm just too kind hearted.

Just as I go into the bedroom her phone is going off but muted its him the pic for the contact is him and her together 

That made it clear what **** I am.


----------



## walkonmars

You're NOT a douche. (she is)
You don't have to be cruel but facts are facts. She wants a life that doesn't include you. She has the gall to exclude you from her life yet ask for a handout. Does she get her nails done? Hair salon? New wardrobe? Well, not on your dime. Not at all.

Next time she "hints" about finances tell her money's tight. But if she shows you a detailed written budget where she accounts for every single dollar she makes, you will be willing to sit with her and review the budget and offer suggestions.

But as long as you can't verify that she isn't spending family resources to primp herself up for the OM you have nothing to offer except for the kids welfare. 

Be business-like with her.


----------



## tom67

Hardtohandle said:


> You know you guys are right.
> 
> If she asks me for anything I'm going to have to sit her down and talk about this guy. I know she does not want to.
> 
> I did mention him on saturday and she said what does he have to do with anything.
> 
> You see to her she feels the only thing he did was give her the courage to tell me she didn't love me. That this was going to happen regardless sooner or later. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else, that she just wasn't happy.
> 
> Matter of fact as I type this I see what a douche I was for even trying to be nice.
> 
> I'm just too kind hearted.
> 
> Just as I go into the bedroom her phone is going off but muted its him the pic for the contact is him and her together
> 
> That made it clear what **** I am.


Exactly Hard you buy the groceries for the kids, she wants gas money she can ask mr. greener pasture for it. My ex and om lasted about 1 year. Now my d tells me she might go on a date or 2 but nothing lasting or serious. I have a younger gf for the past 5 months. Just sayin food for thought.


----------



## tom67

You know what screw with her a little, dress up nice after work and go out eh 2 times a week don't tell her where you're going just do it. I would if you have a women friend have her spray some perfume on your shirt and maybe lipstick on the collar well maybe I'm getting carried away This is all hypothetical of course


----------



## walkonmars

So she sits in bed (with you?) and texts her new man? Jeeezz of all the nerve. Tell her to at least keep her hand out of her pants while she texts.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> So she sits in bed (with you?) and texts her new man? Jeeezz of all the nerve. Tell her to at least keep her hand out of her pants while she texts.


01/30/13 Wednesday

LOL, its not that..

If I am in the living room the only place she has to go to be private is the bedroom. The dinning room and living room are one big room. So even being in the dinning room I'm there. So she can't talk or text him while I'm there.

That call she got bothered me more then I thought. Seeing them together as a contact picture hit me in the gut. I literally had bad dreams about it. I couldn't sleep well last night. I woke up thinking about it during the night.

I'm gonna have to be as serious as a heart attack with her. I get she has to leave and I want her to go. But as I mentioned I am weak to her powers. 

She did go to a birthday party with my youngest, I questioned her about the party and the story was odd. She said it was a daughter of a women from my sons school, but not the actual daughter in school but a younger daughter. It was also where the OM man lives which made no sense because of where we live. It would require a toll and time to get there. I just don't see someone having a party and having people do that. 

I'm sure it was his family and she is just trying to get at least one of the kids acclimated to him. This way she only has to contend with the oldest. 

She also buys the kids unnecessary toys, especially at this time. It is as if she wants to make it like nothing has changed for them, when it has. 

I told them straight out money will be tight now that we have to divide it between 2 places. 

Whereas before I really never had an issue if my kids wanted something. I could spend 400 dollars on something and not worry about it. Granted I couldn't do it every month, but I just wasn't crying for a dollar. Hindsight I should have been. Life lesson learned.

So yea I will have a talk with her about this. I will tell her that maybe her OM should start paying for the toll or her car gas or even car insurance. I want the car out of my name and off my insurance. 

Again I am just trying *( trying being the keyword here )* to be nice until the papers are signed.


----------



## Hardtohandle

tom67 said:


> You know what screw with her a little, dress up nice after work and go out eh 2 times a week don't tell her where you're going just do it. I would if you have a women friend have her spray some perfume on your shirt and maybe lipstick on the collar well maybe I'm getting carried away This is all hypothetical of course


Tom, I have no issues just not coming home for the night. 

The good thing is she is stuck with the kids. What I mean by this is her work is geared around the kids school hours. So there comes a point where at 2 PM she has to be somewhere to pick up the kids or at least one of them, the other can walk home if he wants. So even on her day off she can go out and screw this OM from 9 AM until 12 PM, but she has to come home to get the kids. 

After that the kids are home, where is she going to go ? I do believe she again goes out with the youngest to meet this guy. Again to have at least one of the kids okay with him when he moves in with them. As I know this is going to happen, even if she is playing stupid about it.

Also my family that reside right downstairs from us will not watch the kids so she can go screw this guy. It was already discussed that on valentines day she take care to be home on time. That though my mother and brother have been respectful to her, they will not tolerate her coming home at 9 PM on Valentines day because she wanted to screw this guy. I of course concurred. She is working V-Day and usually gets out at 7 PM. So I expressed this to my wife so I don't have WW 3 on my hands. 

But on the other hand I am free to do whatever I want. Luckily my friends have been very kind and are always looking to take me out on the weekends or have me come over to get out of the house. So when I do, I do get dressed up and say nothing but just go out. 

She has mentioned this guy is working so I don't see her seeing that much on her days off. I can imagine he might fake a sick day, but I know if he don't work, he don't get paid. 

I would guess this is why there is so much texting and talking.


----------



## still.hurting

Hardtohandle said:


> I've done the 180 somewhat.
> 
> Seriously, what comes around goes around...!
> Let her have her stupid new boyfriend, even if you do care, continue to not care or pretend to. Don't waist your breath on her, you don't have to be nasty but you don't owe her the curtiousy of being overly nice either...
> 
> Women LOVE strong charactered men, and I'm very positive if you handle yourself with pride and strength you will attract a new (and better) women, MARK MY WORDS....!
> 
> Hopefully you just don't fall into the trap of getting back with her when she see's you acting this way ;-)
> 
> Bottom line, you deserve better and you will get it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Aunt Ava

Hardtohandle said:


> I'm wondering should I tell my son soon to be 13 in 3 months that his mother cheated on me / us? Yes, tell them. Dr. Steve Harley recommends telling children as young as 4 about a parents infidelity. In terms they can understand, for young ones " mommy has a boyfriend, but married people arent supposed to have boyfriends/girlfriends so we can't be married any more. Your kids are old enough to hear the truth, not her fog babble. They deserve to know they POSOM she wants them to cozy up to is at least partially responsible for destroying their family. There are posts on TAM from those that learned years later as an adult and how devastated they were to learn they were deceived all these years. Who can you trust if you can't trust your own parents.
> 
> I've read in some other threads that people have. I'm a bit torn because I don't want to pit my kids against their mother. I sure wouldn't want that against me.. You are just telling the truth.
> 
> I have told him that I am his father and no one else should try to tell him what is good or bad unless its his mother. That if he should see something he doesn't like when he is with his mother that he is free to come here. But that he needs to explain what the issue is with his mother first and see if it can be resolved and not to use this as an excuse if he fights with his mother. 13 is a really tough age, going thru family trauma, new man doing mom. Please get your kids into therapy to help them deal with it all. They need a neutral adult that they can be forthright with without repercussions.
> 
> I admit I am trying to give him the hint that this OM might be moving into the apartment without saying it. say it, have an honest discussion with them so they are fully prepared on what to expect.m
> 
> My wife is being vague about that as well. Which means yes. Can you get a clause in the agreement that includes no overnight visitorsvof the opposite sex. You know, to teach morals and such.
> 
> I explained just like he is leaving me, it does not mean I love him any less and I assume the same of him. End result his mother should not feel bad if he comes here also and that it doesn't mean he loves her any less as well. Good, but action speaks louder than words. Be in their lives as much as possible. Even if that delays your future relationships with girlfriends.
> 
> I know it would freak her out getting half child support. She shouldn't count on it for long, your kids will soon be old enough to decide for themselves which parent they want to live with. .


----------



## ThePheonix

Hardtohandle said:


> Yes.
> 
> She didn't understand her license was worth something. Plus I'm letting her walk away from all the debt. So she will get child support and 45k from my defferred comp.


Be careful. You don't want the deferred comp to be considered a property settlement. Alimony is tax deductible. A property settlement generally is not. The last thing you want is the deferred comp to be considered as "withdrawn" by and taxable to you.


----------



## Hardtohandle

ThePheonix said:


> Be careful. You don't want the deferred comp to be considered a property settlement. Alimony is tax deductible. A property settlement generally is not. The last thing you want is the deferred comp to be considered as "withdrawn" by and taxable to you.


Fortunately it is not to me. It goes in her name, she only has to pay income tax on what she takes out.

@ Aunt Ava
I will talk the therapist and have my son come or both.


----------



## Hardtohandle

01/31/13 Thursday

Holy crap I cannot sleep. I wake 10x during the night muttering things about my soon to be EX. Its like I go to bed thinking about something then I wake up and I'm still in the same thoughts.

I go to bed at 10 PM now and I am suppose to wake up at 5:20 AM, but even with 7 hours its difficult. 

A few weeks back I was able to sleep better, but its sort of bad this week. 

Today I go see my lawyer to fix up some of the silly issues about the divorce agreement, but overall its all good. More on that to follow once she signs.

Again I love her, but I am clear in thought to understand she has to go. I truly believe she is going to crash and burn because she is just flying by the seat of her pants. She has no sense of controlling the money. 

My son wanted to see royal rumble Pay per view and I told my wife you better tell him we don't have the money for that now, because I'm not, you did this.

She made some comment like sorry we can't do that but once your with mommy we will get it. 

She orders him a action figure then cries about not having money. My son has about 400 wrestling figures. Before we had it like that. it wasn't an issue. But now I'm not spending any money that isn't for a bill or for food. At least not until I see how I am going to survive paying this child support along with everything else.

I love her but as time goes by I get pissed at the reality of the really fu.cked up things she did. I cannot and never would have imagined she would ever be the piece of sh.it she is today. 

I truly believe in that statement/Quote *"I used to love the person you where, not the person you are"*

I'm amazed how any decency is totally tossed out the window. 

I completely and totally understand she "loves" this other man and yea I accept it. But to be treated like a piece of sh.it for the one and only reason, just to do so. Wow... 

I really do believe once she crashes and burns, she will throw up on herself on how she fu.cked up. 

But in the end I am *NOT* waiting for that day. I am moving on. 

Once I am done with all of this, I will tell everyone some more and I will show you guys some before and after pics. 

As always thanks again for hearing me. I wouldn't have survived without my close friends, family and honestly the people here, regardless of how good or bad or crazy some of the advice was. 

Every post from now on in this thread will have a thank you at the end, because you all deserve it each and EVERY TIME.

Thank you


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Start working out, Run, Lift Weights, etc. Eat properly, lay off the Soda and the Junk Food, acts as a Depresant.

If you don't take care of yourself physically during this time you will have a much harder time


----------



## walkonmars

Start a journal. Write one or two sentences in handwriting at the start and end of the day. Rrrbbbttt has it right. New workout pattern. Martial arts? 

Learn American Sign Language. You can volunteer to be a signer at different functions. It's rewarding and fullfilling.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> Start a journal. Write one or two sentences in handwriting at the start and end of the day. Rrrbbbttt has it right. New workout pattern. Martial arts?
> 
> Learn American Sign Language. You can volunteer to be a signer at different functions. It's rewarding and fullfilling.


I have back issues so the weight loss was a god send honestly. 

I have to go to physical therapy to learn some exercises to strengthen my back up again. Have some herniated disc's.

I'm looking at the Proform treadmill 1450. I always enjoyed the treadmill more to outside running. A friend of mine is going to help me put up a chin up bar in the garage as well. That is where the treadmill is going. I think just running and doing calisthenics like push ups. I should be good..

I started doing pushups in the bedroom. But I just don't want to give my EX any idea until she leaves. She always wanted a treadmill but we never had room in the house.. I never thought about the garage because it was full of stuff. Once she is gone that stuff will be given away and sold to make room. 

It will be great when the kids tell her I have a treadmill in the garage.. Just something else to irk her..

I'm a changed man honestly. How could anyone not be changed by something like this. 

I know I made mistakes and was lazy to a point and I am not going to bring my weaknesses into a new relationship. I'm going to fix myself and be a better man.

I know for a fact she is going to be saying in her mind. WTF why couldn't he do this for me when it mattered. 

Like I was thinking, WTF why wasn't she true to herself when she was suppose to and fight for our marriage *( she keeps telling everyone she had to be true to herself now )*. 

Life is a bit.ch some times.


----------



## walkonmars

True to herself! 

No experience.

She couldn't be true to her marriage.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> True to herself!
> 
> No experience.
> 
> She couldn't be true to her marriage.


LOL Walk, I told her the same.. 

Look If I was leaving my wife for another women. I would planned it all out. 

She literally needs the 45k to leave.. She can't do it without it. I told her to ask her boyfriend. Her response is he has nothing to do with this. My problems are not his problems. 

I said to her they are if he loves you so much. I know I loved you to help put you through school while we were dating. Thats what love is. Its unconditional. But I guess you forgot all about that.. 

She is starting to notice she has less control over me. 

I only wish I could know exactly what he is saying to her regarding money. I'm just curious to hear if he is saying I can't afford it or what..


----------



## walkonmars

LOL
I think she is afraid to ask bc she knows there's no way on God's green earth he'll cough up a red cent. And that would destroy her little fantasy. Can't have that!

The fantasy must survive at all costs!


----------



## tom67

walkonmars said:


> LOL
> I think she is afraid to ask bc she knows there's no way on God's green earth he'll cough up a red cent. And that would destroy her little fantasy. Can't have that!
> 
> The fantasy must survive at all costs!


Hm. Reality is a b!tch isn't it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/01/13 Friday

Still hard time sleeping, BUT

Its funny how reality sets in. 

I just figured out that when this was all a secret she was able to take days off or leave work early like she did during the first encounter, because I was flipping the bill for everything. 

But now that I know she can't sneak out of work early anymore because she can't afford it.

I pay every bill in this home and she can't survive with what she makes. All she pays for is food for her and the kids and car gas. I am also paying the car insurance at this time. 

The child support will cover the rent, but just the rent.. She will have to pay the other every day bills she isn't paying here. 

End result I can see she will have to dip into the 45k A LOT. I know she has no clue. She has never rented an apartment. The only thing she knows about apartments is what what my renters have and those are brand new apartments.

She is looking around and thinks she will find some brand spanking new apartment for her to move into and its not happening. I see her calling real estate agencies and them calling here back as the caller id comes across the TV.

Its just so crazy that even a month ago in my mind I thought they were meeting at every chance to screw around. But the reality is totally different. 

I remember she used to be up till 1 AM to talk to him. But now she is back to her old routine of falling asleep at 9 AM on the couch. 

Its just a good feeling to know she is suffering and seeing how reality is setting in. I know she has to be thinking the same thing about the money. 

I just need to get the truck out of my name along with that insurance. That is pretty much the last tie to me financially. 

I can only pray that this guys figures out how to screw her for some money as well. I would love that.

Next week papers should be signed and we should be officially done.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/02/13 Sat

Still can't sleep but this time around when I woke up I made sure to remember what was going on. 

I was saying I can't believe your leaving me.

I felt sad, I felt angry.

I'm in whirlwind of emotions. 

I hate she is leaving. I am going to miss my kids.

I'm angry for the Fake R and all the **** she has done to me during that time. 

I'm angry because she didn't listen to me when I told her if your gonna go, then go. But don't do all these things your doing to me. Why burn a bridge you don't have to for no reason. I even told her I know you don't see it now. But some day down the line you might want to fix this and with all your doing it is going to be impossible to take you back.

I'm angry because she didn't listen to me and I know if or when she wants to come back, it will be all of what she did to me during the break up that will prevent me for taking her back.

I know it will kill me to say no. It kills me because of my kids. I honestly didn't want this for my kids. I wanted them to be raised in a whole family. I know they don't want this either. It will also feel like I let my kids down.

Trust me part of me wants her out yesterday but when she goes my kids go. I know I'm making sound like I will never see them again, when it will be furthest from the truth. All I can say if you don't have kids it can be a bit hard to relate to. Kids just put a different spin/dynamics into this who infidelity and reconcile thing.

All she had to do was tell this OM look my husband is home so the calls for the day are done. I will talk to you tomorrow. At least to show me a bit of respect. 

I'm not saying I see her texting or calling this guy anymore because I don't. The reality is I hear his calls or pings of the text message alerts. If I am in the same room and the ping goes off, she doesn't answer, but after enough pings she gets up to go to the bathroom and fakes a piss so she can answer the text messages.

But regardless to me it is all the same thing. 

That she didn't care or made the excuse that no one knows him to find his facebook page with a picture of them together, just saying that to me smells of *"I lost all respect for myself and I don't care if people know I am married and have another man. I don't care if I look like a wh.ore."*

As a man the last thing I would want to do is out the woman I am having an affair with to her family or fear that the husband would out the wife to the family. Honestly I should have but I was too big of a pu.ssy. I just didn't want to hurt my financial situation. 

It was only after I told her to get it down or else, that it went private 10 minutes later.

But it is all these things that will make it impossible for me to take her back and I am not even addressing the affair itself.

It's weird, I know dollar and sense wise it will be hard for her. She will be broke soon enough. I know she will realize as the bank account gets lower and lower each month that she will be getting closer to her demise.

I know she will have to introduce this guy to my kids and try to get him to move in because she will have to rely on him just to survive and pay her bills.

I'm only imagining what sort of impact this will have on my kids. I want them to say who are you GTFO. But sadly I think they will just accept it and deal with it in their own emotional way. 

Thinking ahead to this I will introduce my kids to the therapist so they have a foundation with her now so when something does occur that they need to talk about, they know that they can go to her.

I'm stronger today, but in many ways I'm still the weak man begging my wife not to leave. The only difference is I don't ask her anymore and we just don't talk. 

Which is another issue. We don't talk.. I don't want to talk to her. I think if we did, I would tell her to STFU and die. I just think that I can't say anything kind or rational to her anymore. 

That contact picture of him and her on her phone when he calls was the last straw. Just something inside me snapped as I ridiculed myself for being so weak. 

It is completely unfair that one person can control the out come of a family. 

Its is retarded that everything I admit I was lacking to do in this marriage, I will now do for someone else that will hopefully come into my life. 

I lost 30 pounds and I'm at 270. Even though at 6'3" they say I should be 220 I will probably get down to 250 easy by the time she is actually out. 

Now for the first time in a long time I can suck my gut in and see my lower rib. 

I just wish she would have come to me and expressed her issues and not done all of this.

And yes thinking ahead. When my wife does come begging back, the first thing I will do is ask her for cell phone and it's at this point she will sh.it a pill, because she will know exactly what I will be doing. Of course the minute I look through the phone of my EX begging to reconcile wife, I will find his contact and contact picture along with the text messages to him and pictures of him and her together. 

And that is where I will turn to her and say this is why we can't get back together. That even NOW when your begging to come back you didn't even care enough to erase this man from your life. As your begging here, your still holding onto him and attached to him.

And I will be probably be crying and sobbing through it all.


----------



## warlock07

Do you want to hear some opinions or are you just venting?


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> Do you want to hear some opinions or are you just venting?


Both.. I will listen to anything.. I just need some peace in my life..


02/03/13 Sunday

I'm just fu.cking angry.. I'm at the point that even if it means seeing my kids go. If I had the money I would give it to her to GTFO.

Saturday she asked if I was going out. I asked why ? She said her friend ( co worker ) wanted to take her out to dinner. Mind you I feel this women knew what was going on and screening for her. 

I told her I was going out. She caught the hint. Her friend was trying to reschedule for when I came home, but then understood it would never happen.

I went into the bedroom to make it crystal clear that if she wants to go out she can go out all she wants when she is in her new apartment and that I myself or my family will NEVER watch the kids for her while she is here so she can go out.

The fu.cking balls on her..

My soon to be 13 year old knows whats going on and knows the guys name. It wasn't hard with all the calls and text she gets. 

I told my wife that the oldest knows and she just ignores it. 

OMG I just am so pissed. I hate that she did this.. I hate that I have to bury my feeling for her down in my heart. I hate that I love her even with all the sh.it she is putting me through. 

I hate the fu.cking weekends right now.. They drag on for forever.

I have aching chest. Its tight and a knot in the center of it.. 

I want to cry out of anger. 

My son doesn't want to go, but he doesn't want to confront her. He doesn't want to see this guy. He is like my wife and bottles up his feelings. I basically explained he has no choice in going to the therapist at least once.

Even the psychologist told me again yesterday how could I ever believe her or take her back for all she has done. Even the professional sees this is impossible and I concur, I'm just mad it got to this. I wish when the time came there was some clause that would allow me that. I know I could just do it. But I know deep down its just another failure waiting to happen. 

I just want her out so she can start to see this misery that she reaped upon herself. I hope everything goes wrong for her. I hope she takes liability out for the truck because she doesn't want to pay full coverage and then crashes it and its her fault so she can take a nice chunk of the money she is getting to fix the truck. Just something to give her a quick kick in pocket. 

If you haven't figured it out yet. I'm mad. 

I never want to talk to her again. I never want to be civil to her ever again. I will not disrespect her in front of my kids, but in private any conversations will be extremely minimal and to the point. It's the only thing I can do to keep me from cursing her out.

I really need someone else. I need someone to help make this anger go away. 

========

You know my father left when I was 12 and never came back. My mother took it very bad. She cried all the time in the beginning and I just didn't know what to do with her. We were well off and ended up broke. She worked 7 days a week to help keep this home we have. I started working at 13 and held 2 jobs, working in a grocery store during the week and holding a light video taking weddings during the weekends, Both Saturday and Sunday. I did my home work at catering halls during breaks. 

I worked to help my mother. We had no cable we had no AC..

While in a Detective Squad about 8 years ago my mother called me to tell me the fan I bought when I was a kid with her broke. I fell to pieces at work. Why ? Because we would sleep in the same room and have the fan blow over us during the summer time. It was a reminder of a tough time in my life. 

I then went to a technical school and worked in computers. I went straight from high school into this school. I was 20 working the city fixing computers for companies. Today that trade is gone. I used to fix hard drives the size of washing machines. They held 10 Meg discs the size of a large record.

I always helped my mother take care of this house. We are fortunate to have it. Though there are times like now that I feel it is cursed. 

I'm not a millionaire, but the reality is at 45 I can retire and bring home 6k a month and not work. My promotion will make it 7k. I could sell this home with equity of 700k and buy something very nice in another state and probably have 400k in the bank. That is not counting 10k I get at the end of each year. 

Up until December 30th that was the plan. To move away and just spend the rest of our lives fixing our marriage and then *BAM* she drops this sh.it on me. 

I thought just like every other jack.ass I had a good life for once. That all my turmoil, my troubles, all my struggles all were worth something. Now I feel like I'm back in that room with that fan on me. 

Is it so fu.cking dam hard for people just to think of what they are fu.cking doing and how it will fu.ck someone else up.. 

Yea I'm mad...

No let me rephrase that. I'm hurt.. I'm crushed.. I'm in shock...

I want to foot stomp on the floor and say why me.. what the fu.ck did I do to deserve this. I've been nothing but an honest man all my life. I tell and teach my boys to be Paladins. Not to lie, to be honest and honorable. To be true to your word. 

Look I've had many women tell me they wanted me, but I never, never did anything that would hurt my wife. Even being out of state where I knew I would never get caught. I never strayed. I just took this sh.it serious. 

What a fu.cking ass.hole I am..


----------



## walkonmars

You aren't an ass0le and you know it. There's only one assh0le living in your home. Why don't you arrange to be gone most of next weekend? Go fishing at a lodge. 

Take an extra shift at work. Take a road trip with one of your kids this weekend and another road trip the wkend after with the other.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/06/13 Weds

Yesterday the 5th I was good but in the afternoon I got a bit tense. 

I went home found out the dog my wife decided to get even though she was leaving went down stairs to my mothers apartment and jumped up on the table and chewed up her glasses. She was pissed. I told her I would bring her to get new glasses. Unfortunately my mother is old and set in her ways. I know these new glasses just won't sit right on her or will have some sort of issue for her to complain about. 

I told my soon to be EX not to have the dog go down stairs anymore. My mother is upset and does not want the dog down there anymore. 

She retorted back the dog chewed up 4 pairs of my glasses as well. I said it doesn't matter what your issue is because your the one who wanted the dog. The dog isn't my mothers, he shouldn't be chewing up her glasses. She just wanted to argue to argue. I just walked away and went into the bedroom.

Friday I have a date or meet up with a 31 year old teacher. An old female friend set me up with her. It seems she has been through the same issues and after a year is ready to go out on dates again. I have to say she is beautiful women 

But even at 45 I'm a bit nervous. Go figure big tough guy cop nervous to be with a young cutie. I know I will do fine, I just think its just the butterflies you get before doing a search warrant. 

I have to honestly say thank god I lost 30 LBS. LOL

But that being all said sometimes I feel I didn't fight enough for this marriage and my kids. I know I did all I could think of. But I am more rational now, I think..

I truly believe if someone from the outside was to slap her into reality that it might give her something to think about. Basically someone from her family that could give her some tough love and just say, you sure you want to do this. Lets go over this. 

Someone to stop her when she is trying to rewrite history. To say look every time I've seen you with him, he has always been affectionate. Hes never been abusive. 

I just think you went off the deep end and you really need to think about his. Really sit down and think about this because you just might get to a point of no return. You sure you want to end a 19 year relationship with a man you really never had any serious issues with. He didn't drink, He never cheated on you. 

Someone who could point out and say look how long have you been working 15 hours a week ? Do you even work those 15 a week all the time ? Which she doesn't. 

Honestly have you really kept the house clean ? Do you think that maybe you just had too much time on your hand. That maybe you should have worked some more to keep you busy ?

Maybe you being the wife should have set things up for you guys to go somewhere if that really was an issue that you didn't go anywhere .

Why didn't you talk to your husband about your issues ? Why didn't you go to the therapist and have her call him in if you were afraid to say something ? 

For someone to say You know I looked up infidelity fog and as I was talking to you I can see that you really fall into this category. 

Don't you think your just in so deep now you don't know how to unbury yourself ?.. 

And to say Look you really have to understand that your husband will move on and in many ways has moved on. Do you really want your new husband to be fixed for someone else ? 

Do you want everything you been through with him and all you have done with him to be at the benefit of someone else ?

With all of this would I take her back. Honestly I love her.. I feel she needs to go to see what its like, but I know she will use this OM as her crutch. 

But with all of this my kids will be in limbo. 

My oldest knows about this OM and his name. He has seen it enough on her phone to figure it out. 

I told him he is not totally to blame because your mother could have just said no I am married. But he surely did not help out and helped destroy the marriage between you and your mother.

He cried. I cried, I couldn't help it.

My youngest got his first low score on a math test a few days ago. Am I saying these issues has something to do with it ? I don't know. Maybe so.

I don't really cry that much any more. I get choked up but I can hold back my emotions now. Even when alone I hold them back.

I'm sorry but I look at her and I love her and I don't want her to go, even though I know she has to.


----------



## walkonmars

That little chat you wish someone would have with you stbxw that would have her snap out of the fog and into reality will be as effective as YOU delivering a well rehearsed, logical, and well reasoned speech to the dog explaining why chewing glasses is not productive, and actually harmful to his health.

So, when you can reason with the dog try reasoning with the b1tch.

Oh, and be sure you wear clean undies to your first date. (advice my dad gave me)


----------



## alte Dame

People always come out of their fogs. You just can't tell what they'll do when that happens. Right now, you're doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your kids.

Hope your date is fun. It's good to get out.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Its funny how things work out.

I noticed she was short money. actually negative 90 dollars in the bank account. Via the phone automated teller.

My intent was to come home and give her a check for 100 dollars to clear the negative balance and then offer if she needed to go with her shopping for food if needed.

I get home I call her into the bedroom and she has nothing but attitude. I guess either she got half her check as she gets a biweekly check or the OM gave her some money. 

But regardless I think she was talking to the OM while I was there at home for the first time. I either had to ask her or suk it up and not ask. I didn't want to ask to show I cared, plus I would have snapped if it was.

Nonetheless I didn't offer her anything but tell her the truck has to get out of my name. 

Just when I was going to be the better man and help her out. She shows me how god dam nasty she can be.. 

What a dik I was for actually feeling bad.

LOL

Just as I finish posting I hear choking and its my wife walking towards the kitchen. I of course get up and ask if she is okay. As she continues to cough and coke she asks for me to hit her back. 

I of course do.. 

Then she walked away.. 

I told the dog your welcome. 

A friend of mine told me if she ever comes back and is honestly, I mean honestly remorseful. Even if you just took her back and did nothing. She would have to live with that guilt inside her. She might try to play it cool, but she would know forever what a piece of cr.ap she was to you. I think the nicer you were would drive her even more nuts and every once in a while out of the blue all you would have to say is remember what you did to me and then continue on like nothing was said. Don't even acknowledge her response. 

I laughed.


----------



## 2asdf2

walkonmars said:


> That little chat you wish someone would have with you stbxw that would have her snap out of the fog and into reality will be as effective as YOU delivering a well rehearsed, logical, and well reasoned speech to the dog explaining why chewing glasses is not productive, and actually harmful to his health.
> 
> *So, when you can reason with the dog try reasoning with the b1tch.
> *
> Oh, and be sure you wear clean undies to your first date. (advice my dad gave me)


Funny!!!

BTW I had a dog that wore clean undies everyday. :scratchhead:


----------



## walkonmars

Hardtohandle said:


> A friend of mine told me if she ever comes back and is honestly, I mean honestly remorseful. Even if you just took her back and did nothing. *She would have to live with that guilt inside her. She might try to play it cool, but she would know forever what a piece of cr.ap she was to you. I think the nicer you were would drive her even more nuts *and every once in a while out of the blue all you would have to say is remember what you did to me and then continue on like nothing was said. Don't even acknowledge her response.
> 
> I laughed.


A conscience is needed for that to happen. She'd have to rent one. Nice thought though.

BTW you missed a golden opportunity to use a real 2x4.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> A conscience is needed for that to happen. She'd have to rent one. Nice thought though.
> 
> BTW you missed a golden opportunity to use a real 2x4.


Walk, I've seen the 2x4 comment before. What does it mean ?


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/07/13 Thurs

I go to work early. I'm in by 6 AM most of the time. 

Broke down this morning. My partner and friend was here to help me out. 

I'm so mad that she treats me like did something wrong. 

I hope and pray she one day realizes what she did. I just hate fearing that she might never. 

I was going to tell her that the door for her is closed, but I know then she will have to suck it up and not tell me anything and that is not what I want. 

I want to let her know the door is open so she can come begging back and I can CRUSH her, like she did to me. 

It is just a shame that not one person she knows could at least knock some sort of sense into her.

Its just roller coaster emotions I know.. 

As always Thank you for listening..


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/08/13 Friday
Snow storm cancelled date / get together

Let me see if I can explain this.

My neighbor passed away from cancer. I went to the wake Sunday with my mother. My wife seen me get dressed up and she knew I was going somewhere with my mother.

She found out yesterday from my oldest son that this guy passed away. She was upset with me because I never told her. She called me stupid. 

I told her I don't need to tell her those things anymore. I only care about my kids. If she was part of my family I would tell her.

The crux of my small argument with her was if you didn't do what you did I wouldn't have done this. 

Her comment basically that one thing has nothing to do with another. 

She basically does not like that I can fvck with her. Where as she can do the things she does.

I am going to make a pentagram on my floor when she leaves and pray for the karma bus.


----------



## walkonmars

Hang in there H2H. Don't let her get you down. Don't let today's weather get you down either.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I hate the weekends

Straight and simple

Thank you TAM


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/09/13 Saturday

I finally said fvck it. I asked my 8 year old about moms boyfriend in front of my 13 year old so he could hear it as well.

It seems I was 100 percent on the money. 

My youngest and my wife along with the OM go looking for apartments together. They don't bring my oldest of course because he's too smart. Of course the 8 year old knows that they are moving in together. 

The birthday party they went to weeks ago, which I knew sounded retarded was also party for a 3 year old for this OM family and was not a kid from my youngest school as she professed it was. 

He basically brings my youngest to meet this guy so at least she has one kid on her side or acclimated to him.

LIE after fvcking LIE after fvcking LIE. 

I my wife told my son to LIE to me. 

I told him he didn't have to lie and that his mother would not do that to him again. 

I knew if I talked to her I would snap so I texted her and told her basically to stop trying to put my kids against me. 

She of course said she is not. I explained to her when you tell my kids its okay to LIE to me your putting them against me.

When she came home I told her straight out she better not do that again. She started to say I never told him, but I cut her off and said "*Are you telling me that my 8 year old is lying about what was said ? Is that what your telling me ? Because if so I bring him in here right now and correct this."*

She buckled. I told her don't you ever put my sons in the middle of your bull**** ever again and don't you ever let me find out you did this again or you will start a sh1t storm that you and that d0uchebag will never recover from.

Of course I come to find out he was arrest for being with a prostitute and drug possession. I don't know if the prostitute thing was a sting with an undercover cop or if they caught him with a real one. The drugs was some sort of hard drug that was dropped down to simple possession. 

I told her I can understand the drugs, but that guy is so hard up that he can't walk into a bar at midnight and just leave with the bar wh0re at 2AM ?. But seeing how he looks I could understand it. 

But this is what you want. Have fun.

I want to punch this doppelganger in the face for taking away my wife. 

I told her I can't believe that she ended up being the biggest piece of sh1t I have ever met. That as soon as I feel some sympathy or have a twinge of a feeling for her she shows me how much of a low life she can be. 

I told her trust me when I tell you your time will come when fvcking reality hits you in the face and you finally realize how much of a piece of sh1t you are and were to me. That all you had to do was be a semi caring human being.

I am completely overwhelmed at to what a fvcking monster this person is. I would have NEVER, EVER, NEVER expected her to do this. It is just beyond all reality and understanding..

Sadly I am happy my oldest see's all of this because he can see how his mother is boxing him out of things and keeping him in the dark. 

I tell him its not because she doesn't love you. It's because she is embarrassed. She knows your just way too smart and can see through all her lies.. I thank GOD that my 13 year old is smarter then I ever was at 13 or even 16... 

I swear I am having a divorce party. Shirts and all when this is all fvcking done.. Holy fvcking crap. I wouldn't piss on her teeth if they were on fire atm..


----------



## Aunt Ava

Well, she certainly picked a winner didn't she? Be sure to bring the drug arrests to the attention of your attorney regarding child custody.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Aunt Ava said:


> Well, she certainly picked a winner didn't she? Be sure to bring the drug arrests to the attention of your attorney regarding child custody.


Unfortunately Ava, They don't care. She will just say she is not living with him. 

I might have something after they move in together. But right now I got jack sh1t. 

I just need her to sign these papers to GTFO... Then its about 3 to 4 weeks for the money to clear.. Its a nightmare.

I just hope I have someone by the time this all comes crashing down. So I have my new women tell my EX no he don't want you.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/10/13 Sunday night

My wife has a toothache. 

I'm happy.. 

Lost another 6 lbs.. Down to 264.. 

I'm looking at 250 maybe 245. 

Can't wait to get the treadmill I will be peeling pounds off. 
A gay female friend of mine was telling me I look good, no more stomach.

Hey I will take what I can get.. LOL

I just know once she is out I have enough to offer to someone that the next women will be thanking god they have someone who works, actually has a career, a pension plan and a home and actually will be faithful and understands what that means to be faithful. 

The more and more I normal out, I just don't get. 

Why the fvck would I give up one someone just to make them better for someone else ? 

She could have had all of this, instead she will live in apartment for the rest of her life with this retard. Both knowing that each of them how they met. 

He can do this to her and she could do the same to him again. 

Its NUTS... Life is just too short to play these games.


----------



## walkonmars

Geeez H2H. Marriage and relationships have up and down struggles. It appears she was unwilling to go through a period of struggling with you, her one-time rock of Gibraltar. But she is ohhh sooo willing to struggle mightily to keep you in the dark as much as possible for this POS. 

Willing to estrange her oldest child. Corrupt her youngest. Lie without shame or remorse. Now that's a struggle for anyone with a conscience. Maybe that's the real problem, she lacks a conscience. 

Bear with it. Your time will come - as will hers. It's unfortunate that it's the children who will be harmed the most. Work with both of them. Keep reminding them that you love them and that NONE of this is of your doing ot theirs. Impress upon them the need to be true to themselves - without that they can never be true to anyone. 
Keep working on yourself. 

Maintain the 180. I cheered that you blasted her with the truth. Unfortunately those truths only pain conscientious people so that rules her out. Because of the devastation to your family, it's of little comfort to know that the worm will turn one day. 

Still that little comfort is more than you have now. The best outcome would be that when that day comes you will have pity rather than glee at her comeuppance. 

Hang tough, like the tough guy you've been all your life.


----------



## walkonmars

walkonmars said:


> Hang tough, like the tough guy you've been all your life.


----------



## warlock07

Be careful if she is bringing your kids around this creep. make it something you won't negotiate. 

She can have the kids when if is alone but don't let the guy aroud them. To think she would pick such a loser, what the f*ck is she thinking ? Does she know about his charges ?


----------



## walkonmars

warlock07 said:


> Does she know about his charges ?


I'm afraid that's part of the "charm"
Complete opposite of her loyal LE husband. Her dominant "wild thang" allele was activated.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/11/13 Monday Morning

I found out last night when I went to bed she went through the nightstands. I put one of our wedding pictures in there not to see it. She removed the picture. 

Not going to lie it stung me. 

This morning I noticed a large round mirror from the living room was missing, so I woke her up from the couch where she has been sleeping the past weeks and asked her where it was. She was upset ( too bad ) and said the mirror is at the apartment she got last week. 

I told her you mean the apartment you and him got. 

I'm scared.. I'm hurt.. I'm sad... I'm angry.. 

I know my kids don't want this or at least express they don't want to go.. If anyone is going to stay it's the oldest, at least initially. I know the youngest is close to mom and will go where mom is going. 

My fvcking heart is breaking even more. I wish I could just turn part of it off. 

It's amazing how everyone here was/is so right about what was going to happen.. The pod people comments, Doppelganger, The woman who killed my wife. 

I think the shock comes from finding out how this person you once loved could become so evil, cruel and deceitful overnight. I think that is what I am having a hard time grasping, understanding and coping with.

You would think that its all done and finished, why not just come clean. Instead it becomes worse as they walk out the door. I just don't get.

Just be a decent human being. Look I know I really fvck stuff for you and us. I am truly sorry and trust me I honestly feel bad for what I did and know I could and should have done it better for you and the sake of the kids and our family. 

But we are here at this point and I want us to end this as amicable as we possibly can for the kids sake and for your / our sanity sake. 

I am moving in with this man. I know you don't approve or like it . But I am telling you the Truth, good or bad or indifferent I am going to be honest with you. 

I have found an apartment last week. This is the address.

I am going to take the mirror over to the new apartment. I am going to start moving stuff over. 

But instead it becomes a covert operation. Run silent, run deep. 
Deny all and disavow everything. 

And all for what ?? What the fvck is it for ? What's the purpose of it all ? Is there something I can do ? Is there some mystical or magical way I can stop this ?

In the end I have no clue how I could ever be civil to her. I know for the kids sake I will eventually have to be. 

I told my son yesterday, *"You may hear me say something bad to your mother, but trust me when I tell you I love her. But I cannot show her I am weak. I know it sounds crazy, but right now if I show her I still love her it will make me weak in her eyes and it will do nothing but drive her away and hate me more. Your a bit young right now to understand what I am saying, but when your older you will get it. But remember I love your mom."*

I want to make it crystal clear to him my issues and I want to make sure he never sees me put his mother in a bad light or thinks I am trying to put him against her. 

But I do express my dislike of this man. 

I haven't spoken of him much. But this guy pursues my wife, knows she is married and then never steps back. I understand completely my wife could have said no, but my point is why would you want to be part of a divorce. 

First off I would never go after a married woman and if I did for some crazy reason. If I seen it was going this route. I would be the first to say look I will not be part of this divorce or the cause of it. You decide and figure out what you want to do for you, your kids and your husband. If you decide you want to leave when your out let me know and I will be here. But I will not and cannot help you decide or interfere with this part. 

Instead this guy goes, Oh I will help you leave. I'm here for you baby. I got your back. 

This guy has no clue what the fvck he was doing because if he had kids he would fvcking understand. Instead he didn't give a sh1t about my kids. He just wanted my wife.. 

Let me correct this, He knew what he was doing. He just didn't care..


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## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> I'm afraid that's part of the "charm"
> Complete opposite of her loyal LE husband. Her dominant "wild thang" allele was activated.


I tell you when I hear/recall some of her past I just see why she gravitates to these pieces of sh1t. 

I'm just dying inside. 

I tell people I survived this, I can survive anything. I can only imagine one thing worse then this, but beyond that thought. I cannot see anything that someone could do to me to hurt me any more then this.


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## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> Be careful if she is bringing your kids around this creep. make it something you won't negotiate.
> 
> She can have the kids when if is alone but don't let the guy aroud them. To think she would pick such a loser, what the f*ck is she thinking ? Does she know about his charges ?


She does.. But she is in this I made my bed so I have to live with it now. 

The reality is I need for her to sign. This way once she signs I am divorced and she will have to pay for her own lawyer if I take her to court in the future. But now I would have to pay for her lawyer. So I need to suck it up and just let it go for now.

6k is better then 50k to 60k.


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## alte Dame

H2H - I watched helplessly as my father grieved my mother's death. She died young, but even so, they had had 25 love-filled years. At one point, he said that he sometimes wondered if those wonderful years had been worth it if it meant that he would suffer such pain when she was gone.

And that's the thing. The love is wonderful if you are both there to feel it. It feels so good that, in order to experience it, we all seem to be willing to take the chance that we might lose it. We all do. It seems to be worth the knowledge that the pain could be there in the end. If we're lucky, we have the best love of all to show for it - our children.

Your W is heartless to you now, but she will eventually wake up and regret the way she has treated you. She's following the script just like any other & will play it out just like any other. And when she approaches you with her new understanding of you - you will be the good, honorable man that she wronged - and her new understanding of herself - she was misguided, damaged - you will have moved on emotionally to a stronger place.

This doesn't assuage your pain right now, but at least you can know that you will never have anything to hang your head about in all of this. You'll be able to live with yourself in the end.


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## Hardtohandle

alte Dame said:


> H2H - I watched helplessly as my father grieved my mother's death. She died young, but even so, they had had 25 love-filled years. At one point, he said that he sometimes wondered if those wonderful years had been worth it if it meant that he would suffer such pain when she was gone.
> 
> And that's the thing. The love is wonderful if you are both there to feel it. It feels so good that, in order to experience it, we all seem to be willing to take the chance that we might lose it. We all do. It seems to be worth the knowledge that the pain could be there in the end. If we're lucky, we have the best love of all to show for it - our children.
> 
> Your W is heartless to you now, but she will eventually wake up and regret the way she has treated you. She's following the script just like any other & will play it out just like any other. And when she approaches you with her new understanding of you - you will be the good, honorable man that she wronged - and her new understanding of herself - she was misguided, damaged - you will have moved on emotionally to a stronger place.
> 
> This doesn't assuage your pain right now, but at least you can know that you will never have anything to hang your head about in all of this. You'll be able to live with yourself in the end.


I cried.. My partner asked If I was alright. I said yes.. 

Thank you.. All of you


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## Hardtohandle

02/12/13 Tuesday..

I'm sad

I have no clue why it gets worse every time I start to feel better. 

Its like the stronger I get the more painful this becomes..

I'm so lonely right now. Oh god I fvcking hate her for this and I love her. 

Trust me I don't show her my feelings. I'm just so lost right now. 

I should get the papers this week. I know she wants to run out the door. She should have it signed as soon as she can imagine. 

I know this just a phase I have to go through. I just wish I didn't have to. 

Thank you TAM for letting me get this off my chest and understanding.


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## Hardtohandle

02/13/13 Weds

Well I came home last night and went downstairs to my mothers apartment to put the 2k my wife will get from the income tax return in a safe place.

My brother gives me the mail and I open the first one to notice that the credit card I agreed to absorb as part of the divorce which was 500 dollars when we wrote up the papers is NOW 1300 dollars. 

Of course my wife was charging up this card even after she knew she was not suppose to. I of course forgot she had this card. One of the charges was a birthday present for that d0uchebags ( OM ) family members kids. 
The fvcking balls !!!..

I woke her up off the couch ( her bed atm ) and blasted her. She was stammering and as humble pie. She gave me the card and I cut it up. I told her the money was coming out of her income tax return money. 

I came into work and did a quick check and I come to discover she got a credit card from a furniture store which is of course based off my credit and on my credit report. 

I try not to talk to her so I texted her again letting her know I know about this card and she is to cancel the account. I also told her to write down all the lines of credit she has and to get the note notarized. At least I have something to protect myself.

Every day I am shocked even more by what she does. All morals just go out the window. It hurts me so much knowing I would have given my life for this women. 

There was nothing I would not have done for her. I NEVER told her no when she wanted something. I would figure out a way for her to get it. I never complained about her getting anything.

I am fighting with myself to not have these issues roll over into something else or another relationship. But I can understand how people get shell shocked after this type of ordeal. 

Thanks TAM


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## LetDownNTX

H2H, its been a long painful road, hasnt it? Im sorry you are going through all of this, the ups and downs..rinse and repeat.

I hope for your sake she is gone sooner then later, I believe you will see that you will become stronger and stronger every day that you dont see her or have to deal with her. 

Thats my wish for you!


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## alte Dame

LDNT is right. Having to live daily with her doing what she is doing is not at all what you need.

Do you know what cognitive behavioral therapy is? It helps you deal with unwanted, unhelpful thoughts. When the hurt overwhelms you, consciously repeat a realistic thought in your head. Something like, "I can do better than her. I deserve far better."

I used to use music to help me. When my daughter was in the ICU and things were touch and go for a long time, I thought the stress and heartache would do me in. Everyday before I entered the ICU, I would very consciously sing the theme song from 'Rocky' in my head to steel myself. It didn't work completely, of course, but it helped.


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## Hardtohandle

Thanks for the responses.. 

I am trying to get this done. Of course the lawyer just called and needed more info which tells me won't be until next week. 

Its sheer pain..


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## Shaggy

Can you put a credit lock on yourself that requires verification by an agency?

Like life lock ?


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## Hardtohandle

Shaggy said:


> Can you put a credit lock on yourself that requires verification by an agency?
> 
> Like life lock ?


Yes I can and will today.


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## Hardtohandle

02/14/13 Thurs.. V - Day

My soon to be 13 year old has a stomach virus and so do I. 

My wife told my son yesterday, as he relayed it to me. That my wife says he cannot stay with me because he is too young and I am never home.. 

I laughed. 

I can make any hours I want, but I usually start at 645 AM and work 2 or 3 hours OT until 5 or 6 PM. Pretty much like every other working stiff in this world. Monday to Friday.

Plus I have a brother and a mother that are literally 12 steps away from us as our apartments are attached. End result if my son is sick I have 2 people that can take care of him. But I can also change my hours as well and just go in later when if he was that sick and needed attention or someone to be there.

Where as my wife now MUST go to work. She cannot afford to take off now and neither can her boyfriend. They don't work, they don't get paid.

But nonetheless sadly my wife is going to find out hopefully the hard way that here in this state a 13 year old can determine who he wants to be with. Basically from what my son is telling me is he can't handle this OM kissing his mother and the other stuff ( fvcking). 

What my wife cannot comprehend is she closed my oldest out of all of this. She basically wants to just have my son walk into an apartment with this guy. The Therapist on our very first visit told her that would not work and I told her the same thing before we even went to the therapist and this was back in September 2012. 

What she doesn't understand, which I do is I can relate to my son. When I was 12 my father left never to return. I understood exactly what was going on and that he had another women and I understood the games he played with my mother. 

My wife wants to bury her head in the sand and just feels she can do what she wants and just have everything work out. 

I can also imagine how upset she will be when she only gets half child support. That has to sting a bit as well.

I'm a bit worried because I can also see how upset my STBX will be not having him go with her. I can foresee a mexican stand off. Hopefully she will get the gist that forcing him to go will not do anything. Plus we have full and open custody, which in theory means neither of us needs to pay child support. Basically what usually happens is the kids stay equal time with each parent. But I just agreed to pay child support. 

My mother and brother are on board to make sure everything runs smoothly if he decides to stay and make sure there are no hiccups. 

I know what will kill my wife as well is that now when she works late, she cannot leave the youngest ( 8 years old ) in the home alone. So he will have to be with me and my family. 

Go figure my son will be the one that makes this how fantasy come crashing down around her.. 

I kept telling her she wasn't thinking about me or the kids and she would get mad at me. Now she will see first hand hopefully what I meant from her own son.

I can see this is going to get worse before it gets better.


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## ThreeStrikes

Stop referring to her as "my wife".

She isn't a wife.


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## Hardtohandle

ThreeStrikes said:


> Stop referring to her as "my wife".
> 
> She isn't a wife.



I know. Even I started STBX as I caught myself further down the post.


You know I honestly didn't wish it had to come down to all of this. Though I honestly and truly understand it does. I know that I could not take her back now. I won't rule out the future. But it would have to include a long time of counseling before I even considered taking her back. Again assuming I have not moved on by then. Which I imagine I will be. Even if 10 months from now she was looking to come back. It would take at least 2 years of being apart and many sessions of therapy to even being to figure out if it even is worth it. 

End result we would be talking 3 years or more of being apart and working this out. *The only thing that would make something like this worth the effort would be my kids*. I don't even think we would remarry. I would either continue to pay child support to cover my backside or have her rescind the payments legally. 

My son has expressed several times of hoping we would get back together. I would try something for them.


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## alte Dame

In the end, for me, it's the children who are the real heartbreakers. They are what makes everything worth it. Your W is in the process of bombing ahead with her 'new life' and praying to God that her kids will just go along so that she doesn't have to face the reality of their reactions and feelings.

For some people, this is enough. They fail or simply refuse to acknowledge realities and then go about their lives, tough luck to their children. My father was like that and he messed up my brother very, very badly; my father, on the other hand, just went about his life, never facing the ruin he caused - not ever.

So, it's up to you at the moment, H2H, to give your children the solace and security that they need. They are lucky that one parent is thinking first and foremost about them.


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## Hardtohandle

02/15/13 Friday

Well I took my son to the therapist. 
I won't bore everyone with the details. End result he knew more about things going on then I did. He knew my wife got yet a 2nd phone from him after I caught her with the first phone. My son being 13 just eventually put everything together as he reflected back on what transpired these last 6 months. 

End result he does not want to go with my STBXW. He loves her but he cannot see this man. In his eyes he helped break us up. He understands his mom could have said no. But he also does see his mother is trying to poison him against me. Basically trying to make it like I'm a *Rage Monster*. 

Funny how no matter how much of a Rage Monster I might be he still wants to stay with me over being with this OM.

He also see's how my youngest ( 8 yrs old ) is being poisoned with talk of going to sport events ( which they not into ) and other things. Basically things we were going to go to but just didn't. This is all coming from the OM mouth. 

How would he know these things ? Easy my wife is directing him what to say. 

But I understand my son is only 8 and does not understand. I'm glad one of them does. 

I know this will CRUSH my wife. She will be mad and blame me. But there is one secret I keep with my son and is I tell him all the time I love his mother. No matter what she does, I love her. That will be the bomb I let him drop on her when she finds out he does not want to go and starts blaming me. 

Deep down it hurts me to. I understand the pain she will be going through not having her son with her. The same I would, but I understand being a mother it is a bit different. 

It just is a shame what a train wreck this is turning out to be. 

All she had to do was talk to me, work with me to fix OUR marriage, To fix OUR lives. 

The if it wasn't meant to be, then she could have walked away and got an apartment on her OWN with the kids and then slowly introduced a new man into their lives. Instead of thrusting this stranger on them. But she didn't get it or care to get it.

A good note is she is giving me back the 700 dollars she charged on my credit card from the income tax money. Again it was 800 but I again wanted to be the good man. 

Again worse before getting better, I understand and accept it. But I can't wait for the better part to be honest.

Hopefully this paperwork will be ready next week for her to sign.


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## Shaggy

Have you run a credit report on yourself and her to see what other credit cards are active?


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## Hardtohandle

Shaggy said:


> Have you run a credit report on yourself and her to see what other credit cards are active?


Yes.. All is good so far..


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## warlock07

> But there is one secret I keep with my son and is I tell him all the time I love his mother. No matter what she does, I love her. That will be the bomb I let him drop on her when she finds out he does not want to go and starts blaming me.






> I understand the pain she will be going through not having her son with her. The same I would, but I understand being a mother it is a bit different.





> All she had to do was talk to me, work with me to fix OUR marriage, To fix OUR lives.





> Again it was 800 but I again wanted to be the good man.


:slap:


:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> . . . You know I honestly didn't wish it had to come down to all of this. Though I honestly and truly understand it does. I know that I could not take her back now. I won't rule out the future. But it would have to include a long time of counseling before I even considered taking her back. Again assuming I have not moved on by then. Which I imagine I will be. Even if 10 months from now she was looking to come back. It would take at least 2 years of being apart and many sessions of therapy to even being to figure out if it even is worth it.
> 
> End result we would be talking 3 years or more of being apart and working this out. *The only thing that would make something like this worth the effort would be my kids*. I don't even think we would remarry. I would either continue to pay child support to cover my backside or have her rescind the payments legally.
> 
> My son has expressed several times of hoping we would get back together. I would try something for them.


Dear Hardtohandle,

Stop thinking like this. It's all fanatsy. The truth is: (1) you would take her back in a heartbeat if she asked you and (2) she won't ask you because she doesn't want to come back and probably never will.

You need to get your head _and you heart_ around the fact that your WW is a cheating b*tch who doesn't deserve you. You need to stop fixating on and pining over her, and start building a new life in which she has very little part. You need to start moving on.



Hardtohandle said:


> 02/15/13 Friday
> 
> . . . A good note is she is giving me back the 700 dollars she charged on my credit card from the income tax money. Again it was 800 but I again wanted to be the good man. . . .


And what's this sh*t about only asking her to pay you back $700 of the $800 she owes you because you want to be "the good man." Haven't you learned by now that being a "good man" will do not gain you any favor in your WW's eyes but will only make you look weaker and encourage her to try to squeeze more out of you?

You're a cop. Start laying down the law in your household, for your sake and that of your kids. You don't have to go overboard. Just demand of her what justice requires.


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## walkonmars

carmen ohio said:


> ...The truth is: (1) you would take her back in a heartbeat if she asked you ...


I know how you say you will never ever take her back. You've expressed that in a rage often enough. That's why I believe carmen is right.


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## Hardtohandle

I honestly understand what everyone is saying. 

I'm just lost ATM.. 

I know when she goes I will start to normal out a bit more. It is really when she is here I just can't focus. 

When I am not at home I'm better. 

I've only really been dealing with for 2 months because of fake R for the last 4 months before that. 

I feel like I'm a fog sometimes and then there are days I'm like the hell with her. 

It's the look to me. I'm blown away by her beauty. Look she is not a fashion model, but I know she is good looking. I can see it when when we would go out and men would look at her. 

I don't know.. I really don't.. I know I'm all over the place..

To me I need someone else to occupy my time and mind. My STBXW as I mentioned in a previous post was my crutch to get over my first wife. 

I'm trying to stay away from that right now and tough it out and work on building a better relationship with my son and figure out our game plan with him staying with me.

I know my wife is going to FREAK out when I tell her my son is staying with me. I can see her calling 911. 

I've been talking to him about what the plans might be and see what his concerns are. 

To me in my mind I don't want anyone to ever tell me I was fvcked up with something I did. I want to be this clean on my end. 

As an example I noticed on the credit card bill, she spent 100 dollars on my youngest. So that is why I cut off 100 dollars. It was for my kid so I will let it slide. Again this is something I can hang over her when she tries to say something against me.

Basically ammo for a future argument. I just don't want to be caught being a weasel, I will leave that to her to hang herself with, which she has with my oldest son.

I'm a broken record ATM. Just rehashing the same sh1t. 

Let see how I feel when she leaves. I think the solace will be both a painful but refreshing.

I just need to get out of my own fog. There are times I'm just doing something at work and it hits me that this is really happening to me. I just can't believe it. 

The one thing I need to make sure is the paperwork covers my son staying here. At least if I have to go to court I will have something covering me. 

Thanks TAM for hearing me babble on.


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## Hardtohandle

02/18/12 Monday

I don't even know what to say. Its the same sh1t.. 

I'm choking on my own anguish.


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## walkonmars

Is there anyway you can take leave/vacation and go somewhere for a few days? You need to get away from her for a while. Gather your wits. Bootstraps my brother. Put things in perspective, there's lots of other sh1t going on in the world that makes your situation pale by comparison. Be grateful for the things you DO have. 

I'm pulling for you through this awful time in your life.


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## Ever-Man

I read a bit of your situation and will give my opinion: if she cheated on you several times throughout the relationship of 14 years, it was a matter of time before someone who would COMMIT to her would come along, and she would leave. 

I went through exactly the same thing with my first wife, and I reacted exactly the same way as you. At the time my Departing Wife seemed to desirable to me, I wanted her back so bad as she was leaving, and she seemed so radiant, I guess she was happy she finally made the decision to leave me; she fell in love with another man, for the second time since I was married to her (the first one didn't love her back).

THis was the greatest pain I ever felt, being rejected, loosing my family, preparing to live alone. WHen I come to this site and read other similiar scenarios, I start to get sick, possibly due to the PTSD. 

I can tell you in my situation, I now am SO HAPPY I am not longer with a woman who never really loved me. She looks very ugly to me, I actually can't stand her, and look forward to when my kids are old enough I never have to hear her voice again. 

You are holding back this healthy anger as you are still "reacting" to being screwed by a woman you have idolized in your head, but who actually is a skunk who smells like a fart. 

You will see she is a skunk soon, and you will be so ashamed for having loved her, and you will hate her for having broken your family. You will be there, I gaurantee.


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## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> Is there anyway you can take leave/vacation and go somewhere for a few days? You need to get away from her for a while. Gather your wits. Bootstraps my brother. Put things in perspective, there's lots of other sh1t going on in the world that makes your situation pale by comparison. Be grateful for the things you DO have.
> 
> I'm pulling for you through this awful time in your life.


I'm just waiting for this paperwork to be finished up so I can give it to her to sign.

My son told me today that she said to him to ge stuff ready they will be moving soon. But she cannot leave without signing the divorce papers. Otherwise she does not have any legal right to take my kids. 

Soon could mean once the papers are signed or screw the papers we are just going. At this point I have no clue WTF she means to be honest. 

I wish I could split for a bit, but I can't especially if my son is going to stay with me. 

Its like climbing a mountain with 2 sides, one of pain and one of recovery. I'm almost to the top on the pain side and soon going down the recovery side. But those last few 100 feet are the longest and most painful..

I just HATE being so defenseless against this. 

@ Ever-Man, Trust I understand what your saying. There are times I am posting trying to tell someone not to be me and how I messed up and just hearing their story and the excuses they make about not wanting to be bad or mean to the Wayward Spouse puts me in a panic because it reminds of me. 

Look I know this marriage was doomed. I see it now. begrudgingly I see it. She has issues. I wish we would have addressed them, but I just didn't see them. I just didn't get it and neither did she.

I know this OM will just be in my boat soon enough, not that I give a sh1t about it, beyond having some comfort of him getting crushed. This is the best he will get in his life. This is golden egg. His porn star. 

I need a divorce surrogate, someone else to take this pain for me.

Part of me is happy my oldest son wants to stay and part of me is torn because I know what a whirlwind of sh1t this is going to stir up. 

I just hope it doesn't get out of hand on her part. 

But regardless I can't force him to go and I won't force him to go. I know its separating the kids. I know my youngest is gonna get hurt by not having his big brother with him. 

I don't know what the fvck to do..


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## Ever-Man

StillLife said:


> HardtoHandle, I'm going through and have gone so much of the same stuff. Five months ago I found out my wife was having an ongoing, heated online affair. Found out, started to leave, and she begged me to reconcile, and after much dragging of feet to get the affair to end on both the part of his wife and by myself.
> 
> We had a really crappy year, including her going through thyroid cancer treatment. The day after I drove her home and had to be out of the house while she was radiated, I now know she almost immediately started a heated online affair with another guy. Not only had she done that, but going back to just a couple months after I thought she was done with the first affair, she resumed some of the same behaviors that had led to it in the first place, including hanging out online in this game with another man I know she was having at least a light inappropriate relationship with.
> 
> I fell into the trap like you did. I asked her how she could be doing this, I begged her to wake up, I tried my hardest to hang on for the good of our children and what I thought was a lifelong commitment. She had me believing she wanted to reconcile, was asking me to come back home, was telling me she had stopped talking to the guy, etc. But I found out not only was she not done talking to him, but she had upped the ante into putting on full on cam shows for him.
> 
> Through it all, the first affair and the second, she was blaming me for the faults in the marriage. Like a sucker, I had bought into them and was working my ass off to improve things including getting us into counselling and really working on myself, all the while it was just a fake R on her side and she was doing nothing on her end to fix things.
> 
> I made the same mistake of telling myself that she was still a good woman, was just confused, and it was my job to try to get her to wake up. Like other posters have pointed out to you, I was fooling myself. I was clinging to something I had created in my mind. The reality is a good woman would not be doing these things to her marriage and her family. Even if I was the worst husband in the world, which I'm not - there's just no justification other than the fact she is selfish and has far less of a conscious than I, or I'd like to think most people, possess. The truth is I may have had made my own mistakes, including playing an online game way too much in the first year of our marriage, but I turned those flaws around on my own to make her happy. I am a great husband and was a fool to allow her to make me believe otherwise, to blameshift and maker her choices my fault, which is still her default any time our relationship comes up.
> 
> Like you, one of the things that gets me is how she has just completely shut off any emotional connection now. I exposed the hell out of her affair to many people, including her mother, which infuriated her. I also told the OM (some young carefree ********* in Ireland ) that she had been reconciling, even making love while she was having her relationship with him. I think all of that pushed her even further away, but I'm glad I did it. People don't get to just walk all over others like this and get off scott free.
> 
> It's funny, because she can turn on the friendly charm when she needs me to do something and there have been a few times I let my low self esteem allow me to help her like fixing the toilet, going to feed her cat while she's out of town with the kids. But I realized last night, no more. She wanted to throw our marriage away for online friends and an online relationship? Get them to do the heavy lifting. See how wonderful of friends they are then, because words are easy, it's the actions other people are willing to do on our behalf that make them true friends. I'm sure my refusal to help her with anything that doesn't have to do with the kids will piss her off, but too bad. She chose to end this marriage as brutally and horrible as possible, and her days of playing me for a sucker and using me for anything are over.
> 
> One thing I'm questioning myself on now though, is what another poster in this thread pointed out: she claims she wants an amicable divorce and feels like we can be mature enough to work it out on our own. I wanted the same to save on legal fees and the like, but now I have to really examine if she is just playing me for a fool again.
> 
> Anyway, hang in there. You're further along in the divorce process than I am. Don't waver, you deserve better than this woman. Hell, I'd say most people deserve better than to be with someone who could take something like marriage so lightly and toss it aside so easily. Even considering the children like I have to, we deserve better than this. Your job is to love your children and do the best you can for them, not suffer through an *unnecessary* hell for them.


Wow this sounds similiar to my situation with the x wife, a real pile of cruelty, for sure. Honestly, when I think that I was "nice" to her even after the divorce, it makes me sick. When I was nice to her I was ENABLING her cruelty towards me. I might as well have been stabbing my own heart. I feel ashamed to admit it, but I have been there too, I suppose it is called "love" for someone else more than you love yourself.


----------



## Ever-Man

Hardtohandle said:


> I'm just waiting for this paperwork to be finished up so I can give it to her to sign.
> 
> My son told me today that she said to him to ge stuff ready they will be moving soon. But she cannot leave without signing the divorce papers. Otherwise she does not have any legal right to take my kids.
> 
> Soon could mean once the papers are signed or screw the papers we are just going. At this point I have no clue WTF she means to be honest.
> 
> I wish I could split for a bit, but I can't especially if my son is going to stay with me.
> 
> Its like climbing a mountain with 2 sides, one of pain and one of recovery. I'm almost to the top on the pain side and soon going down the recovery side. But those last few 100 feet are the longest and most painful..
> 
> I just HATE being so defenseless against this.
> 
> @ Ever-Man, Trust I understand what your saying. There are times I am posting trying to tell someone not to be me and how I messed up and just hearing their story and the excuses they make about not wanting to be bad or mean to the Wayward Spouse puts me in a panic because it reminds of me.
> 
> Look I know this marriage was doomed. I see it now. begrudgingly I see it. She has issues. I wish we would have addressed them, but I just didn't see them. I just didn't get it and neither did she.
> 
> I know this OM will just be in my boat soon enough, not that I give a sh1t about it, beyond having some comfort of him getting crushed. This is the best he will get in his life. This is golden egg. His porn star.
> 
> I need a divorce surrogate, someone else to take this pain for me.
> 
> Part of me is happy my oldest son wants to stay and part of me is torn because I know what a whirlwind of sh1t this is going to stir up.
> 
> I just hope it doesn't get out of hand on her part.
> 
> But regardless I can't force him to go and I won't force him to go. I know its separating the kids. I know my youngest is gonna get hurt by not having his big brother with him.
> 
> I don't know what the fvck to do..


Your are in the heart of the storm with all the life-altering changes imminent, but still not taking effect. When you finally finish the divorce, and the family is gone---I'm sorry--- that may be the bottom, yet to come, and will last for some months afterward. You will get through it, but not unscathed. But you will get over it. 

Try to distract yourself, you can't take full on suffering day-after-day without relief. Just get through it best you can, it will continue to hurt, you can handle it, you owe it to yourself. 

Remember, the woman you love is doing this to you, and that is one reason it hurts so much, but you will understand that she is not the person you have built her up to be, and there are so many great woman out there who want a man who can commit. 

For me, moving on didn't happen until I started to date, I would suggest doing this ASAP, even if you feel you are not ready. That is what I did to start to heal.


----------



## Ever-Man

FYI Let your son live with you, good idea, that is what he wants.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I texted her, as I try not to talk actually speak with her.

I asked 

1. Are you moving in with this man. 

2. I want this Truck out of my name.

She went to respond as I could see the dots on the Iphone, but stopped.

When I got home I called her into the bedroom and told her, lets make this clear and that we are on the same page. I am not and will not let you take my kids unless I have some legal document that says we are divorced or going to be divorced.

I asked her if she was moving in with him. 
She asked why. 
I said I need to know before you get any papers. 
She said I don't know
That means yes to me.

Regardless I asked my son if mom does NOT move in with this guy do you want to go ? 
He said no..

Oddly she was semi pleasant to me, basically not looking to fight or have an attitude when talking. I can only assume because she does not have the money for the car so she needs to be polite.

The good thing is she needs to hit up the OM for money. At least she is draining him instead of me now.


----------



## Ever-Man

Yes, let the OM take full responsibility for her, you can be done with her. I am sorry your marriage is going in this direction, it sounds like now you need to put yourself first, and not your marriage, and take everything you can get for yourself, you owe her NOTHING, expect inasmuch as your kids need. As you go more in this direction your tension should aleviate, and as you become your own best friend you will begin to crawl back into yourself and take care of yourn own needs. She never will take care of your needs, and will take advantage of your weaknesses, as she has already with the affair. 

Start your way OUT completely and you will start to heal. The healing does not fully begin until the D is fully done. Good luck, you will feel GREAT as you start to take care of yourself.


----------



## Ever-Man

Read the thread: Benefits of a Wayward Spouse. This brings to mind an important element of healing: using this experience as a way to GROW, and not IMPLODE. 

This is a neccesity, you have no choice but to allow yourself to feel good again, and not wallow. WHen you have fully "mourned" the death of your marriage, you will be on the road to recovery.


----------



## LetDownNTX

Hardtohandle said:


> I texted her, as I try not to talk actually speak with her.
> 
> I asked
> 
> 1. Are you moving in with this man.
> 
> 2. I want this Truck out of my name.
> 
> She went to respond as I could see the dots on the Iphone, but stopped.
> 
> When I got home I called her into the bedroom and told her, lets make this clear and that we are on the same page. I am not and will not let you take my kids unless I have some legal document that says we are divorced or going to be divorced.
> 
> I asked her if she was moving in with him.
> She asked why.
> I said I need to know before you get any papers.
> She said I don't know
> That means yes to me.
> 
> Regardless I asked my son if mom does NOT move in with this guy do you want to go ?
> He said no..
> 
> Oddly she was semi pleasant to me, basically not looking to fight or have an attitude when talking. I can only assume because she does not have the money for the car so she needs to be polite.
> 
> The good thing is she needs to hit up the OM for money. At least she is draining him instead of me now.


In the "papers" are you allowing her to take both kids with her or are you asking that the oldest stays with you? Im sure he is old enough to express to a judge where he wants to live. Is he of age, in your state, that he can tell the judge where he wants to live?


----------



## Hardtohandle

Again roller coaster emotions...

Yesterday I felt I was dying and today I'm okay.. 

I was reading up on the web about statics of divorce and divorce with infidelity. 

It is amazing to see how many different reports show regret after divorce.. 

Its so weird how people only then understand that they might have been better off working on the relationship. 

Utah requires a 2 hour course you have to take before filing for divorce. They discuss this exact issue.

I also read about 9/11 effect. In which many couples pulled divorce papers after 9/11.

One man stated, how many women would be so quick to divorce if they knew they had a decent chance of loosing their children in the divorce. 

It is what it is I guess. 

I also read up about the pit falls of dating too soon or trying to date to help plug up that hole you feel in your chest. Again more interesting stuff. I surely don't want to make the same mistakes again. Which is what they mentioned when you rush into dating too soon.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/20/13 Wed

Feeling fine today. 
I guess I needed to let those emotions out on monday to get where I am today. Hopefully those episodes will be less and less. 

I've been fortunate in the sense she has not seen me fall apart for some time now. 

Paperwork will be ready tomorrow to be picked up. She will need to bring it to her lawyer for review and sign it.

I notice that my house has been polarized. My oldest with me and my youngest with her. My youngest slept on the couch with her last night. I thought she would tell him to go sleep in his bed. But it seems she needs his attention. 

It has become apparent over this time that she has attention issues. Regardless of how much I told her I loved her everyday, she was missing something. The good or funny thing is she will not be able to fix this with this OM either. She just does not see it and neither does he.

I am thinking less of her and him as time goes by. I really never went into mind movies, which I guess is good.

I spoke some more with my son. I asked if he was hated his mother, he said no. Which is good. He is upset with her. I told him he will get over it and that it will take some time. I tried to explain that his mother just is lost and is just running on these emotions. That reality will sink in eventually. That probably once she is in the new apartment without him ( my son ), it will hit her like a ton of bricks. 

The good thing again is the OM will not have a clue what to say and has no way of understanding the pain she will be going through since he never had kids or ever been married.

I also found out not only was he arrested but also warranted out for not paying the fines. Which is good, which shows his character and irresponsibility. Yet another nail in the coffin for these two. I can only hope he rolls her for all the money I give her.

So as the titanic slowly sails away I wave good bye and say good riddance..


----------



## walkonmars

How did she react to your oldest's decision not to join her & the OM? Or does she even know of the decision? Hope she doesn't go cold on him.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> How did she react to your oldest's decision not to join her & the OM? Or does she even know of the decision? Hope she doesn't go cold on him.


I haven't told her yet.

I pick up the papers again today for her to review with her lawyer. This is pretty much the final draft. It is what agreed to. There might be some tweaks, but minor and it should be done. 

The only issue I can see her having is the part if a child stays with me she gets 50% child support. I will tell her consider it a post nup. Be a good mother and you don't have to worry about your kids leaving. *BUT* If they want to leave why should I have to take you to court. If they can leave me without me putting up a fighting, then should be allowed to come back without you fighting. I'm just thinking ahead. She just doesn't know I mean days ahead.

I was told that the papers have to be registered or indexed with the courts before it is official. So I will tell her she cannot leave until it is official. Otherwise when I drop the bomb she could say screw that paper work and can just take it all back and fight.

This way even if she wants to fight, she will be divorced and will have to spend some of that 45k she will be getting. 

I doubt she will fight because everything will come up. She knows it will not look good for her.

I've accepted this all, but I can't believe it's all ending like this. It really is a shame. There was just no need for all of this. 

A friend of mine thinks, In her head she had to make me a bad guy so she can leave. Otherwise how can she face she is leaving a good guy and just went way overboard with all of this. 

He feels that there had to be a point where she said in her mind, maybe I went to far, maybe this wasn't the smartest choice. Maybe I should have fixed this. But there comes a point where someone is so deep in they just can't turn back. 

I don't know honestly I know certain things about my STBXW mind, meaning she never really thought ahead. She might think one or two steps ahead, but never 10 or 15 steps ahead. 

It's hard to explain. As an example many years ago when we were dating, she didn't know that the moon revolved around the earth. She was a high school drop out with a GED. Granted she has an associate degree now for hygiene. But even then when she was having issues in school and freaking out about failing a class, I helped her study and explain what needed to be done for her to pass.

Another example would be telling her to figure out the average of a bunch of numbers.. She would have no clue to add and then divide. 

She just doesn't get things, even common sense things. 

This is why she is now paying for an apartment that she isn't even in and won't be in for god knows when. So she might pay for 2 or 3 months before she can move. That includes for furniture she ordered and isn't even using and of course the cable bill. Granted he will be there so nothing lost I guess at least for him.

The more I normal out and look back I feel sad. Not the same sadness I had before. The sadness that this turned out so horrible and it didn't have to. Life is short.. There is nothing 2 people who care for each other can't fix ( I know the keyword is care ).. There is no greener pastures. It is all the same sh1t. Why buy a used car and take someone elses headaches. I would rather keep my own I know whats wrong with it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/21/13 Thursday.

I gave my wife the paperwork. 

I told her I didn't want her taking anything until we were divorced. She stated she wasn't taking anything. Which is good I guess. 

I asked her for a notarized letter of all her debt, which she gave me. She spent about 10k in furnishing her new apartment that she is definitely moving in with the OM.

She changed the insurance on the truck to her name. But I need to cancel the plates and cancel the registration. That is my last tie to her financially.

I'm hurt, but I'm NOT showing it or at least not trying to show it.

I know many say her time will come. I'm just a bit impatient and want it to happen yesterday. 

I just hate that she is just chugging along like all is good in her life. 
I hate she dropped me like I never mattered. 
I'm annoyed that I want to curse her out and say things to her, but I know it will get me no where and won't matter.

I'm not gonna lie, my son staying with me makes me happy it will hurt her. I know its not right. But its the only thing right now that will feel like a dagger in her heart.

It's getting close to the end at least. Good or bad its near the end.

I feel I didn't fight enough for this. I feel I should have been stronger. I should have tossed her out. I should have, I should have, I should have.

She should have fvcking cared about me and the kids. She should have cared enough to fight and try to fix this. 

Fvck her... 

My son will be my sword. 
What she didn't see or care to do for me, she will now see she failed my son. My son will give my STBXW her life lesson.

I fvcking hope she crumbles to the ground. I will enjoy telling her to go file a motion with the courts and to GTFO of my house.

I'm angry...


----------



## Shaggy

The minute papers are signed, make sure the OM is on cheaterville.com

Oh and do not forget to take her debt out of her part of divorce settlement.


----------



## walkonmars

H2H your previous post about your wife's intellectual capacity explains a lot. She didn't know the moon went around the earth? Really? Not just this but all the rest - shows she has the brainpower of a flea. But the blood sucking flea probably has more empathy. Fleas suck blood to survive. 

Yeah the day will come but even then she won't realize the damage she's done. So don't count on that. It's only when she is living alone with a dozen cats for company that she may come to the realization that she's been a loser all her life. I hope that by then you won't even remember what she looked like today. 

And do rain as much as you can on the OM. He's a law-breaking, family-destroying scourge on society. Follow Shaggy's advice.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Shaggy said:


> The minute papers are signed, make sure the OM is on cheaterville.com
> 
> Oh and do not forget to take her debt out of her part of divorce settlement.


Oh I will do that for him. I was even considering putting her on it. But I will refrain for now against her.. 

I know one thing for sure she is deadly afraid of me and the interent. I am very internet savvy. Its part of what I do in my work and I have copies of many things she did. I could literally just put up a website with a time line of everything she did and just send it to everyone she knows.. I can google bomb it that just googling her name will make it come up as a hit. She does not want that. I am saving that big elephant gun for the end if she tries anything crazier. 

The letter will cover me in case a creditor comes after me for one of those accounts. 

I just need her to GTFO.. 

Another concern I have is the OM.. 

I know I will meet him eventually. He never seen me before. I've lost 50 LBS. So I'm much thinner ( and sexier ). 

I know he will want to see me. I don't imagine him actually coming up to me, but I could see him standing at the top of the steps when I pick up my son or drop him off. 

I could tell him a few kind words, but I think the best is just to not say anything and just cut him off to just shut him up if he tries to make any comments. To explain that his words mean nothing. The good thing I have is I can always say to him this discussion is family business, your not family. Your just that other guy. 

I think my best sticking points are that I can push the My Sons, My family line. EG Mind your business I'm talking to MY SON. Mind your business I'm talking to the mother of MY KIDS.. 

He still might want to complain or say something, but I can always push it off on my EX to tell him to mind his business. Either she has to tell him to be quiet or suffer the consequences of what might transpire if he keeps talking. 

If she tells him to be quiet, it will piss him off. Which is great because it will start a fight between them. If she does not, then she knows well enough I have a sharp tongue and A LOT of ammo to piss him off. The most he can tell me is he took my wife away from me. Which no matter how you say it won't sound good infront of the EX and it won't phase me. If anything it will make her look cheap or like some sort of prize. Which I already told her is what he is telling others about her. End result it re-enforces my past statements.

What can he tell me about her I don't already know .

So I am just trying to cover all the bases. Its part of what I do at work. We go through all the scenarios and what if's, so when they happen we don't stand there stunned or doing a "*Oh sh1t moment"*.

What I want to do is extremely limit any actual conversation between me and her. Basically either talk quickly through text message or email. But no actual verbal communication. Everyday when I call I will have my oldest call to speak to my younger son and then I will get on the phone. 

But I just really do not want to speak with her. I really want to go all Buddhist monk on her, vow of silence style. 

I reserved myself and accepted the fact that everything will be in doubles. double birthdays, double confirmation party. I don't care. 

I don't even want her at my funeral if I should be so unlucky. 

I already made arraignments with a friend of mine to control my money for my kids, if I should die. He is a soon to be millionaire and will make sure to make my money grow for the benefit of my kids. I certainly trust him more then I do my EX.

Anyways, this seems to be it. Let see what happens in the upcoming week.

Again another weekend coming. I hate them with her there. I could clean up the place but I just don't want to let her know NOTHING.


----------



## alte Dame

Hardtohandle said:


> I don't know honestly I know certain things about my STBXW mind, meaning she never really thought ahead. She might think one or two steps ahead, but never 10 or 15 steps ahead.
> 
> It's hard to explain. As an example many years ago when we were dating, she didn't know that the moon revolved around the earth. She was a high school drop out with a GED. Granted she has an associate degree now for hygiene. But even then when she was having issues in school and freaking out about failing a class, I helped her study and explain what needed to be done for her to pass.
> 
> Another example would be telling her to figure out the average of a bunch of numbers.. She would have no clue to add and then divide.
> 
> She just doesn't get things, even common sense things.
> 
> This is why she is now paying for an apartment that she isn't even in and won't be in for god knows when. So she might pay for 2 or 3 months before she can move. That includes for furniture she ordered and isn't even using and of course the cable bill. Granted he will be there so nothing lost I guess at least for him.
> 
> The more I normal out and look back I feel sad. Not the same sadness I had before. The sadness that this turned out so horrible and it didn't have to. Life is short.. There is nothing 2 people who care for each other can't fix ( I know the keyword is care ).. There is no greener pastures. It is all the same sh1t. Why buy a used car and take someone elses headaches. I would rather keep my own I know whats wrong with it.


This probably won't help now, but I can tell you that differences in intellect and education cause many divorces later in life when the physical passion dies down some. I know many couples where one spouse simply can't listen to what comes out of the other spouse's mouth anymore. Statistics also show that this is an issue.

I do a lot of teaching and I would bet that there are many people who know nothing about obvious things like the moon and the earth. One student of mine, a junior in college, mentioned that he thought Winston Churchill was a famous African-American civil rights leader. Another student, an AP English type, announced in an essay that Shakespeare was a famous Victorian writer. And so it goes. When you're in the throes of love, these issues are background noise, but they can become very important.


----------



## tom67

alte Dame said:


> This probably won't help now, but I can tell you that differences in intellect and education cause many divorces later in life when the physical passion dies down some. I know many couples where one spouse simply can't listen to what comes out of the other spouse's mouth anymore. Statistics also show that this is an issue.
> 
> I do a lot of teaching and I would bet that there are many people who know nothing about obvious things like the moon and the earth. One student of mine, a junior in college, mentioned that he thought Winston Churchill was a famous African-American civil rights leader. Another student, an AP English type, announced in an essay that Shakespeare was a famous Victorian writer. And so it goes. When you're in the throes of love, these issues are background noise, but they can become very important.


Winston Churchill?Geez that's bad:rofl:


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/22/13 Friday night.

Well after seeing this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/68197-radio-show-cheaters-have-intimacy-issues.html

I went and listened to the show. What a fvcking dumb idea on my part.

I came home and I basically told my wife look if your looking to come back and your willing to talk, I am willing to listen. 

Nutshell I told her I am not asking her back, but I am opening the door for her to talk about coming back to fix this. 

I even said that being divorce or married has nothing to do with it. That I said once before that even if we had to burn this relationship to the ground and start over it was worth it. 

So getting divorced has nothing to do with our relationship.

I wont bore you with the rest of the details, so I will cut to the chase. She kindly and politely said no, she does not want to try and just is done. 

It honestly didn't crush me as much as I thought it would. I didn't get emotional or choked up. 

It was a good wake up call. 

I did tell her I know your relationship with this guy isn't going to work and you know why its not going to work. It's not going to work because in the last 10 minutes while we were talking or I was talking and you were listening he called you 15 times.

I felt good in the sense I tried one last time to save this thing. 

Now when my son tells her that he isn't going with her, at least then I will feel good in telling her why. 

Its a shame people can do this. It really is. How people can just be so obtuse and blind.


----------



## tom67

Hardtohandle said:


> 02/22/13 Friday night.
> 
> Well after seeing this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/68197-radio-show-cheaters-have-intimacy-issues.html
> 
> I went and listened to the show. What a fvcking dumb idea on my part.
> 
> I came home and I basically told my wife look if your looking to come back and your willing to talk, I am willing to listen.
> 
> Nutshell I told her I am not asking her back, but I am opening the door for her to talk about coming back to fix this.
> 
> I even said that being divorce or married has nothing to do with it. That I said once before that even if we had to burn this relationship to the ground and start over it was worth it.
> 
> So getting divorced has nothing to do with our relationship.
> 
> I wont bore you with the rest of the details, so I will cut to the chase. She kindly and politely said no, she does not want to try and just is done.
> 
> It honestly didn't crush me as much as I thought it would. I didn't get emotional or choked up.
> 
> It was a good wake up call.
> 
> I did tell her I know your relationship with this guy isn't going to work and you know why its not going to work. It's not going to work because in the last 10 minutes while we were talking or I was talking and you were listening he called you 15 times.
> 
> I felt good in the sense I tried one last time to save this thing.
> 
> Now when my son tells her that he isn't going with her, at least then I will feel good in telling her why.
> 
> Its a shame people can do this. It really is. How people can just be so obtuse and blind.


Hey you tried women soon will be all over you and stbxw somewhere down the road will be thinking wtf was I thinking? Now go out there it took me a couple of years to feel comfortable about but I'm having fun now.


----------



## Jasel

Dude start dating.


----------



## tom67

Go out with coworkers one night at a pub wth.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I'm gonna try to start dating.. But right now with her still in the house its a bit crazy.. 

I just don't want to lie to someone if they ask about me and my STBXW. It will sound a bit crazy telling someone, well I'm sort of getting divorced, but wife is still here in my home. But she has an apartment with her boyfriend... She will be out soon?!!

Women will think I'm crazy unless I meet someone who has been in my shoes.

I just need to get this all done and move on. I'm just a whiny b1tch that is loosing patience because his STBXW is going over to an apartment to have sex with the OM and then coming back here.

What kills me, the STBXW tells people she had an affair then gives some excuse why we are done, but fails to tell everyone everything else what she has been doing.

So the impression someone gets is we are getting divorce and she is moving out but we just are at home together waiting for this to be done. Not that she is calling, text and having sex with this OM with my youngest playing Xbox in the other room. 

It is just such a morality issue that is just killing me. I just don't get how someone would just loose all morals to show your kids all of this ? 

How the hell does she tell the kids about being moral and just when they see there mom going with another man while there dad is at home. 

How do you tell your kids not to lie when your telling them to lie to their father. 

I just need someone by me with a 2x4 to smashing me in the head when I think of doing stupid things to wake me up.

To me its like she just lost her mind. That now she just needs this guy because of financial reasons that she has no choices. So she has to entertain his 15 calls in 10 minutes BS. I mean talk about insecurity on his part.

Trust me I can see I need her away from me to think clearly. 

They should have halfway houses for things like this. You go and only communicate with the Ex with someone there telling you what to say and think.


----------



## Jasel

You need to stop trying to psycoanalyze her. It's just going to drive YOU crazy. I know saying "start detaching" is easier said than done and you're venting but you need to start finding other things to occupy your thoughts so stop focusing so much on her.

How soon until she moves out??


----------



## Hardtohandle

Jasel said:


> You need to stop trying to psycoanalyze her. It's just going to drive YOU crazy. I know saying "start detaching" is easier said than done and you're venting but you need to start finding other things to occupy your thoughts so stop focusing so much on her.
> 
> How soon until she moves out??


Jasel I know. 
Friends have told me the same. I truly understand I will never heal until I stop talking about her. 

I run hot and cold. Its the weekends that are trying on me. At work I can forget her. Once I am dating I know I will be fine. I drown my attentions into someone else. Its how I am..



Hopefully she will bring the papers to her lawyer this week or next ? I am hoping this week. 

Then I get them back and make any last corrections, which should be minor. That should take a day or two. 

Then I give them back to her and she signs and gets them notarized. 

My lawyer then gets them indexed with the court and she can move out.

I am going to say 3 to 4 weeks. Probably 4..


----------



## Jasel

That's why I'm saying you need to start dating now. You don't have to sleep with anyone, start a relationship, or tell someone you barely know your marital woes/situation. It can be something as simple as going out for coffee or dinner with a few different dates, having pleasant company and conversation here and there, and leaving it at that. Just maybe get a feel for something you might be interested in and start training your mind to focus on what you want, instead of focusing on how you're not getting what you want in life currently.


----------



## Mtts

Hardtohandle said:


> Jasel I know.
> Friends have told me the same. I truly understand I will never heal until I stop talking about her.
> 
> I run hot and cold. Its the weekends that are trying on me. At work I can forget her. Once I am dating I know I will be fine. I drown my attentions into someone else. Its how I am..
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully she will bring the papers to her lawyer this week or next ? I am hoping this week.
> 
> Then I get them back and make any last corrections, which should be minor. That should take a day or two.
> 
> Then I give them back to her and she signs and gets them notarized.
> 
> My lawyer then gets them indexed with the court and she can move out.
> 
> I am going to say 3 to 4 weeks. Probably 4..


Be careful on the "drowning attentions." Working out issues and becoming a healthy person who's going to be a healthy dating partner is important. not saying this wouldn't happen, but I definitely have given too little time in between healing when dealing with relationships to disastrous concesquences. Hang in there!


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/24/13 Sunday.

I exploded today. 

The simple problem or issue is I have been sucking her A$$ trying to be semi decent. Instead of fighting we don't talk. 

Today she asked me for money for food for the kids. I have been paying every other bill in this house and for the past 6 weeks she has been buying the food for her and the kids. Nutshell between all the debt I am paying out 5k in bills. 

Of course between her new cable bill at her new apartment with the OM and her taking over the car insurance, she was low on funds. 

I went at her about paying attention to her funds and maybe if her finances weren't torn between her kids and her new apt she wouldn't have these troubles. 

What happens, is she gets upset and tries to disassociate everything from the affair, the OM, the apartment. Her line is what does this have to do with that. 

She just doesn't get the bullsh1t I had to endure with her and the OM and her leaving.

Its like hey it is what it is deal with it. 

I told her basically its all good as long as I don't get upset, but once I get upset its all different for her, now she becomes like what did I do ?

I really, really, really, really fvcking hate the weekends. I told her just sign the papers and GTFO. Holy crap I'm starting to wish cancer on her.. 

She did all this sh1t to me and its like its all normal for her. I had to suck it all up. 

I can't wait to drop the bomb on her. Her a$$hole is gonna pucker up and she is gonna freak out. 

I wouldn't piss on her teeth if they were on fire.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/25/13 Monday

Which stage of the emotions you go through is the Fvck You stage ?

Holy sh1t I can't wait for the day she crumbles. 

I want this done so bad I would pay for her lawyer consultation fee just to get this fvcking done. 

Monday through Friday are my only peace.


----------



## LetDownNTX

Why dont you tell her since she cant afford to feed her own kids that maybe they should stay with you in a stable home?!


----------



## bfree

LetDownNTX said:


> Why dont you tell her since she cant afford to feed her own kids that maybe they should stay with you in a stable home?!


Bingo!


----------



## Jasel

Have you tried going out of town or something on the weekends?? Maybe get away from it all?


----------



## happyman64

H2H

I just wanted to wish you peace. Happiness and a great big can of WhoopAss on her in the near future.

Please stay calm. You are almost at the end of this relationship.

ANd you will need a good amount of time to heal from her abuse. 

Who wouldn't??? 

But I also know you are going to be great in the future. I see you with your kids, a great job, a nice home, relatives close by supporting you and your kids.

What will she have? POSOM, ex druggie and herself. Oh what joy in their future. 
:lol:


Stay focused and continue to rant here.

HM64


----------



## Hardtohandle

LetDownNTX said:


> Why dont you tell her since she cant afford to feed her own kids that maybe they should stay with you in a stable home?!


LDT, once this is all done I will tell you guys a bunch. I just don't want to jinx myself ATM.

How can I explain this. 

It is like she has to be a b1tch to show her loyalty to this OM. I think if she portrayed being nice to me he would be worried that she likes me and has a chance of being with me. So how retarded would it sound if she told me " Please pretend to be mad at me if you talk to him." 

I would imagine if he heard us laughing or being very civil with each other it would annoy him. 

What she fails to see because she is VERY, VERY short sighted that I will be around much longer then this guy. 

Whatever personal issues she has and trust me she does have some sort of issues, which seem similar to what her brother had and was expressing to me in the past. These issues are not and will not be fixed with this. 

So because she is short sighted and love blind / infidelity fog / or whatever you want to call it. She does these retarded things. 

Instead of saying to the OM
*"look I am leaving him, He is not leaving me. I have no reason to hurt him anymore then I have already. I will have to deal with him as long as we are both alive as we have 2 kids together. It would be much better for me and the kids if we had a amicable relationship."*

Instead she does whatever she is doing now. Again she is just too retarded to understand. It doesn't excuse her because I explained to her several times she didn't need to do this. So to me its game on. 

Honestly I want to do a million things just to piss her off. But in the end I just want her to go away. 

The funny thing is she will NEED me. She will no longer have my oldest to "take care" of the youngest while she is working. She will now have no choice but to bring the kids over to my house to be with my mother and brother to watch them while she is working late hours ( late hours for her is 3 PM to 7 PM ) 1 day a week. 

On Saturday when she works my youngest will be with the OM from 8 AM to 2 PM. Unless of course she brings him to me. Which will mean I will have my kids every weekend on Saturdays. I know my youngest will want to come to be with his brother and to be with the dog as well. 

Now lets talk about the summer time when the kids are off from school, who will take care of them when both her and the OM are working ? She will be working 4 days during the week. 3 days from 9 to 2 and then the 1 day from 3 to 7, then the Saturday times. 

Of course the kids will now be at my home for 2 months in July and August about 5 days during the week. So much for every other weekend. 

Lets now add in with the kids split. When it is her weekend how is she going to deal with my oldest. He does not want to see this guy. He will not accept being ambushed. So she either will have to come to my home to hang out with them or try to take him out some where. Or the OM will have to leave the apartment on the weekends. 

I would imagine that eventually my son will or might cave in and see him or deal with him, but for now this is the situation. 

You know honestly I hope it takes him at least 4 or 5 months before he meets this guy. Just to prolong the anxiety for the Ex. 

But of course when I tell her she never thought of the kids she gets mad at me. 

KARMA BUS WHERE ARE YOU !!!!


----------



## alte Dame

We all see this tipping in your favor in the end. Human nature is what it is. We all see people - grown, dysfunctional adults - making impulsive, emotional decisions that satisfy their short-term desires, but will scr*w them in the end. Yes, we all see it.

We know that you, H2H, will be the one to be happy and solid in the end. We know that her stupid, self-absorbed, impulsive decisions will come back to bite her.

What we also know for sure is that she definitely has the power to wound you badly while she does this & you don't have much choice in the matter, but that the balance will tip, and soon. It will tip. When it does, it will be for good. You will be happier in the end & she will have effed up her life for good.

This is what we all know. No doubt about it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Jasel said:


> Have you tried going out of town or something on the weekends?? Maybe get away from it all?


Jasel I'm okay for the most part. That was the first time I actually blew up on her. She ran to her new apartment with the youngest and then came back about 6 hours later. I went and picked up pizza for me and my oldest since I knew they ( Ex, youngest and OM ) already ate together. Which again shows how callus she is to my oldest.

She just disassociates herself from anyone who she feels doesn't need her. This is why she latches onto the youngest.

Just yesterday I had to remind my youngest that I was his father and I expected him to come and say hello to me when I walk in the house or when he comes in the house. Something he used to do, but suddenly he has forgotten. 

Plus I refuse to leave my kids alone with her and I don't know what she is capable of at this time. I don't want her brainwashing my son. I want him with me for many reasons. 

1. Because she thinks I can't handle it.
2. The money she will loose out on
3. The pain it will bring her, regardless if she understands or not what she did to cause this.

I want to do anything I can to crush her walking out that door.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> KARMA BUS WHERE ARE YOU !!!!


Your younger, prettier girlfriend is driving it. She'll be pulling up in the bus not too long after your divorce is final. She's an awesome karma bus driver too.


----------



## Hardtohandle

alte Dame said:


> We all see this tipping in your favor in the end. Human nature is what it is. We all see people - grown, dysfunctional adults - making impulsive, emotional decisions that satisfy their short-term desires, but will scr*w them in the end. Yes, we all see it.
> 
> We know that you, H2H, will be the one to be happy and solid in the end. We know that her stupid, self-absorbed, impulsive decisions will come back to bite her.
> 
> What we also know for sure is that she definitely has the power to wound you badly while she does this & you don't have much choice in the matter, but that the balance will tip, and soon. It will tip. When it does, it will be for good. You will be happier in the end & she will have effed up her life for good.
> 
> This is what we all know. No doubt about it.


Thanks AD



sandc said:


> Your younger, prettier girlfriend is driving it. She'll be pulling up in the bus not too long after your divorce is final. She's an awesome karma bus driver too.


LOL


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/25/13 Monday Night

I drove by the STBXW apartment. The front window curtain was open. I could see a mirror she took from the home hanging on the wall. 

I was excited to see it was a very busy and crowed part of the town. Parking is impossible and on the weekends with all the bars and restaurants being open parking is impossible. During the week days its impossible to park but weekends its even harder. 

The great thing is with all the drunk retards, they will be messing up her truck something fierce. 

I can see the apartment is small and the outside of the building is dirty. On top of this the drive to the kids school is a decent 20 minutes away. There is literally nothing for the kids to do around there. The bus stops right in front of the house and cars that can park in the 3 or 4 available spots have to park half on the sidewalk. 

I totally understand why my oldest don't want to go. 

I am telling you I SCORED. 

Again this shows how short sighted she is. I went online and seen dozens apartments just in our neighborhood, but this is what she picked. 

Its like she wants to fail at this all.


----------



## JCD

Hardtohandle said:


> She literally needs the 45k to leave.. She can't do it without it. I told her to ask her boyfriend. Her response is he has nothing to do with this. My problems are not his problems.


Here is where she is being stupid. They aren't YOUR problems, they are HER problems. When she tells you she is leaving, HER problems leave your purview.


----------



## JCD

Hmm. Start a bidding war as soon as she is out the door. It's only $60 for a new XBox game every month or so. Plan a few weekend jaunts for the boys.

Hmm. Get the 13 year old a moped. Once the wife has gone. Give the boy lessons. Let the other boy know what he is missing out on.

Do a few weekday movie nights.

Make your home 'kid friendly'. It will keep you busy and might spur the other child to think hard about what he is missing out on.


----------



## Hardtohandle

JCD said:


> Hmm. Start a bidding war as soon as she is out the door. It's only $60 for a new XBox game every month or so. Plan a few weekend jaunts for the boys.
> 
> Hmm. Get the 13 year old a moped. Once the wife has gone. Give the boy lessons. Let the other boy know what he is missing out on.
> 
> Do a few weekday movie nights.
> 
> Make your home 'kid friendly'. It will keep you busy and might spur the other child to think hard about what he is missing out on.


JCD, I hate to agree as I don't want to make it about toys and gifts. But I'm getting my son a gaming laptop and a Basketball hoop he wanted. 

I'm putting in all new wood floors in the house and a new paint job. Since half the toys will be out of the house it will make more room in the bedroom. So many things will be rearranged and look new. 

I have a cleaning lady lined up to come in every week for 50 bucks. 

Nutshell it will be a fresh start, clean and neat. I'm sure after a while the little guy will want to hang out more.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/26/13 Tues

I fell apart tonight. I didn't ask my wife to come back. 

What I went at her about was why she treated me the way she has. She understands I was upset but cannot explain why she did the things she did these past months. 

I hate these emotions.


----------



## JCD

Hardtohandle said:


> 02/26/13 Tues
> 
> I fell apart tonight. I didn't ask my wife to come back.
> 
> What I went at her about was why she treated me the way she has. She understands I was upset but cannot explain why she did the things she did these past months.
> 
> I hate these emotions.


You need to start hardening yourself. I know this is a place to vent, but as long as you PERMIT your emotions to rule you, you'll be run up and down the scale like a woman on menopause.

So tell yourself this: I refuse to feel this way right now. I shall leave this emotion behind. I have felt it and now it's over. I control my destiny.

Harden your soul.


----------



## JCD

Okay...hardening your soul might be a bit of a stretch, but what you need to do is change how you see your stbxw.

Because that is what she is: your SOON TO BE EX WIFE. This was HER choice! Yes, it's going to come back and bite her on her shapely ass...but it's HER CHOICE.

So...you are a law enforcement official. You've worked the street some. You've seen all kinds. People who have poor impulse control. People who make very unwise choices which hurt people badly. Folks who can't help their hungers.

You call them perps. Your wife is now a perp. Not in a legal sense, but when you consider how she is treating you, treating the kids, treating her family, and acting to STEAL from you and TURN YOUR KIDS AGAINST YOU...how else would you describe her.

Do not imagine her in that white dress of so many years ago. Imagine her in an orange jumpsuit with a little number board in front of her.

Remove the happy family pictures. They don't exist anymore. She's a perp. You know how to shift your mental processes to deal with perps. Yeah, Johnny down the street is always smiling, always happy to see you, friendly, can banter with you...and he's dealing MJ to the high school kids. You know how to fence in your heart around HIM.

Use these same skills to fence your heart around your cheating,stealing, pvssy dealing wife with a serious semen addiction.

WHEN you do that, you'll sleep better and you'll be better able to maintain your equilibrium around her. Would you GIVE Johnny the Dealer $100? No. Not unless you were getting something worth FAR MORE than $100. Would you trust Johnny the Dealer? Why are you trusting your wife?

This may fix your problems.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Thanks JCD

Let me add. She started with I told you how I feel I'm sorry. 

I said to her. Let me say this to you again and try to get this in your head. I understand you don't love me anymore, I understand your leaving me, I understand your moving in with this man. 

What I don't understand is why you needed to do the things you did these past months. Why do you need to feel to treat me like a piece of sh1t. As if 19 years means nothing. I am NOT asking you to be my best friend. I'm asking you to be a bit civil and a human being. 

I asked her why she felt she needed to call and accept his calls and text messages while I was home. Why she needed to have a contact picture on her phone of the both of them together. Is to rub it in my face some more ? Is it to hurt me some more ?

I asked her to just explain the phone calls or the contact picture. 

I asked her did you feel you had to be nasty and cruel to me to show your OM that you didn't like me. Because if he knew we were nice to each other that he would be afraid you might come back ?.. 

She answered see you making up all these stories in your head. 

I retorted what other choices do I have when I asked you now and in the past and you have no answer for me. If you can't tell me why then I have to try to figure out this stuff by myself.

I said is it that you hate me so much for something that I did in the past that you want to punish me ? What is it that I did in the past that would make you so mad at me. WTF did I do ? Tell me anything, tell me I'm punishing you because you were on the computer too much. Because I didn't give you attention.. Tell me anything.

She said she doesn't know.. 

I told her your 48 and grown women and YOU don't know why your doing these things ? Maybe your the one that needs therapy and counseling. I will pay for your counseling, go there and tell the counselor why and have them explain it to me. If you don't like our counselor go to another one. You pick it, I will pay.

But I just don't understand why if know how hurt I was, how devastated I was *( I had her tell me how she thinks I feel about all of this *) then why would you do these things to someone whom you know is so hurt and has done nothing wrong to you. What was your point of all of this ?

I challenged her to go to anyone counseling, friends or family and tell them the whole story up including today and see what they say. Don't tell them that sugar covered story of I cheated and made a mistake by cheating but we are done. I don't love him. 

Tell them all the background info and see what people will think. Find me someone who will say you were 100 percent in the right to do those things. The reality is you can't. Only you and this OM think what you did is all good.

I told her how do you think it feels to see my life is on hold, while you just keep moving on like nothing matters. That you can run away to an apartment with your OM when you get tired of hearing me. But where do I go ? Where do I run to.. No place. I have stay here. 

I again told her you need to go so I can move on. I need to have the chance to move on myself, but I can't with you here. I'm not fortunate enough to find a women who wants to have an affair and neither do I want to be with women like that. 

I would like to have a normal relationship. You know meet a girl go out on a few dates. Then have sex. Maybe date for 10 to 12 months before I introduce them to my kids. You know to see if it really is serious enough for me and her. Maybe after 2 years then possibly ask her to move in. But not do sex first, then have 2 dates, then just move in together with my kids. 

Again I said to her you remember all of this. Because you will need me one day. Trust me you will and I will reflect back on all of this and this is what is going to help me make my decisions on how I should deal with you.

A friend says psychologically she is using the anger as a mechanism to leave. She couldn't leave if she was nice to you. She has to make you a monster to make herself believe your no good for her so she can leave. Otherwise she would start questioning herself. I can see that and understand. I can also see its fvcking stupid as we are GD grown adults. 

She says friday is the visit with the lawyer. Her biggest gripe is the 45k, but again she is really just dumb because she thinks I can get the 45k without getting divorced. She was what is taking that so long. I had to explain it to her yet again, it is part of the divorce settlement. The Judge has to sign off on it so pension board can cut you the check. She thinks I can just tell someone give this person 45k and they just do it.

I just wish someone else was with me during all of this to see just how unintelligent she is with these things. 

Its just amazing how all rational and common sense has gone out the window. 

I can only pray that friday is the beginning of the end with all of this.


----------



## JCD

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks JCD
> 
> Let me add. She started with I told you how I feel I'm sorry.
> 
> SNIP
> 
> I can only pray that friday is the beginning of the end with all of this.


This is the last conversation of this length, emotion and intensity you should have with her. You let her know all of it.

I'm a bit ashamed that you left open the fact that you might be there for her when she needs you. Why? What has she done to deserve grace? (granted, the nature of grace is it can never be earned)

No more texts. No more appeals. Tell her lawyer to explain in small words the reality of the divorce and the money. Tell her that unlike her, your word is still good and you promise to give her the money and are LEGALLY obliged to give her the money when the papers are signed.

Two things you talk about with her more than monosyllables:

1) how to expedite the divorce

2) kids schedule.

And I don't want you to go all 'Skater Dad' on her; involving yourself in every teeny aspect of the kids lives so you always have an excuse to talk to her.

SILENCE.

She has a flat: eff her!

She needs money: Go to Sugar Daddy

KIDS need something: YOU get it for them. Money is fungible. It can pay for kids food...or beer for him...or lingerie for her to give to him...or HIS car insurance... Get the picture?

Or should I say...you pay HALF of what the kids need. They are her kids too...

So far you think these acts of service will pay enough to have her reconsider. 

They won't.

Get on with it.


----------



## WTHiswrong

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks JCD
> 
> Let me add. She started with I told you how I feel I'm sorry.
> 
> I said to her. Let me say this to you again and try to get this in your head. I understand you don't love me anymore, I understand your leaving me, I understand your moving in with this man.
> 
> What I don't understand is why you needed to do the things you did these past months. Why do you need to feel to treat me like a piece of sh1t. As if 19 years means nothing. I am NOT asking you to be my best friend. I'm asking you to be a bit civil and a human being.
> 
> I asked her why she felt she needed to call and accept his calls and text messages while I was home. Why she needed to have a contact picture on her phone of the both of them together. Is to rub it in my face some more ? Is it to hurt me some more ?
> 
> I asked her to just explain the phone calls or the contact picture.
> 
> I asked her did you feel you had to be nasty and cruel to me to show your OM that you didn't like me. Because if he knew we were nice to each other that he would be afraid you might come back ?..
> 
> She answered see you making up all these stories in your head.
> 
> I retorted what other choices do I have when I asked you now and in the past and you have no answer for me. If you can't tell me why then I have to try to figure out this stuff by myself.
> 
> I said is it that you hate me so much for something that I did in the past that you want to punish me ? What is it that I did in the past that would make you so mad at me. WTF did I do ? Tell me anything, tell me I'm punishing you because you were on the computer too much. Because I didn't give you attention.. Tell me anything.
> 
> She said she doesn't know..
> 
> I told her your 48 and grown women and YOU don't know why your doing these things ? Maybe your the one that needs therapy and counseling. I will pay for your counseling, go there and tell the counselor why and have them explain it to me. If you don't like our counselor go to another one. You pick it, I will pay.
> 
> But I just don't understand why if know how hurt I was, how devastated I was *( I had her tell me how she thinks I feel about all of this *) then why would you do these things to someone whom you know is so hurt and has done nothing wrong to you. What was your point of all of this ?
> 
> I challenged her to go to anyone counseling, friends or family and tell them the whole story up including today and see what they say. Don't tell them that sugar covered story of I cheated and made a mistake by cheating but we are done. I don't love him.
> 
> Tell them all the background info and see what people will think. Find me someone who will say you were 100 percent in the right to do those things. The reality is you can't. Only you and this OM think what you did is all good.
> 
> I told her how do you think it feels to see my life is on hold, while you just keep moving on like nothing matters. That you can run away to an apartment with your OM when you get tired of hearing me. But where do I go ? Where do I run to.. No place. I have stay here.
> 
> I again told her you need to go so I can move on. I need to have the chance to move on myself, but I can't with you here. I'm not fortunate enough to find a women who wants to have an affair and neither do I want to be with women like that.
> 
> I would like to have a normal relationship. You know meet a girl go out on a few dates. Then have sex. Maybe date for 10 to 12 months before I introduce them to my kids. You know to see if it really is serious enough for me and her. Maybe after 2 years then possibly ask her to move in. But not do sex first, then have 2 dates, then just move in together with my kids.
> 
> Again I said to her you remember all of this. Because you will need me one day. Trust me you will and I will reflect back on all of this and this is what is going to help me make my decisions on how I should deal with you.
> 
> A friend says psychologically she is using the anger as a mechanism to leave. She couldn't leave if she was nice to you. She has to make you a monster to make herself believe your no good for her so she can leave. Otherwise she would start questioning herself. I can see that and understand. I can also see its fvcking stupid as we are GD grown adults.
> 
> She says friday is the visit with the lawyer. Her biggest gripe is the 45k, but again she is really just dumb because she thinks I can get the 45k without getting divorced. She was what is taking that so long. I had to explain it to her yet again, it is part of the divorce settlement. The Judge has to sign off on it so pension board can cut you the check. She thinks I can just tell someone give this person 45k and they just do it.
> 
> I just wish someone else was with me during all of this to see just how unintelligent she is with these things.
> 
> Its just amazing how all rational and common sense has gone out the window.
> 
> I can only pray that friday is the beginning of the end with all of this.


WOW! All I can say is that is powerful stuff. Really shook me to the core. I could actually feel ur pain as I read that. Hope this mess is over soon for your well being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Dude, she's checked out, broken, not the same person you married. 
She's so lost that she can't even comprehend the level
of hurt she is inflicting on you.

I truly feel your pain, as my WW did and _is_ doing the exact same thing. 
She has become an emotionless robot.

It's like rationalizing with a meth addict.
It's not that you want them to know how hurtful their actions have been... 
you just want to see true remorse - that you and most others (like me) would _expect_ to see...
coming from someone you've been with for half of your life, no?

Your only option (if you don't want to destroy yourself mentally)
is to try your best to detach from her. You can't save her,
but you can save yourself and your future.

Cheaters suck ass.


----------



## inabadway

It's amazing how similar all cheaters are. At least you are getting the chance to vent to her - I was never given that chance. The absolute lack of remorse is the most difficult part.


----------



## Hardtohandle

cantthinkstraight said:


> Dude, she's checked out, broken, not the same person you married.
> She's so lost that she can't even comprehend the level
> of hurt she is inflicting on you.
> 
> I truly feel your pain, as my WW did and _is_ doing the exact same thing.
> She has become an emotionless robot.
> 
> It's like rationalizing with a meth addict.
> It's not that you want them to know how hurtful their actions have been...
> you just want to see true remorse - that you and most others (like me) would _expect_ to see...
> coming from someone you've been with for half of your life, no?
> 
> Your only option (if you don't want to destroy yourself mentally)
> is to try your best to detach from her. You can't save her,
> but you can save yourself and your future.
> 
> Cheaters suck ass.



Thank you.. All of you..

I'm amazed how scripted this stuff is. 
Everyone thinks they have some unique story and then they see it's all the same Sh1t.

I truly see how shell shocked I'm going to be after this is done.


----------



## JCD

Hardtohandle said:


> Thank you.. All of you..
> 
> I'm amazed how scripted this stuff is.
> Everyone thinks they have some unique story and then they see it's all the same Sh1t.
> 
> I truly see how shell shocked I'm going to be after this is done.


Disenchanted is still in the process of divorcing his wife, went through 6 months of hell...and now he's banging some hot 20 something.

Rookie04 dropped his wife like a bad habit without all this inner angst you are inflicting on yourself and was knee deep in tail in a few months...and his wife, who actually GOT it, crawled back to him begging.

If you dig a little deeper and are willing to actually shed your victimhood (it can be addictive), you will come out of this.

Someone did something horrible to you. Lucky you, you can easily see what her life is, as she picks up the hammer she's going to hit herself in the forehead with.

So let it go and move on. Listen to her screams in three months to amuse yourself and be joyful if she cannot adequately care for your son, you can scoop him up as well.

I was on a grand jury. One day, we had not one, but TWO rape cases.

The first was this girl from the wrong side of the tracks. She was raped by a boyfriend or something (the story is hazy but she was asleep and he held her as they had sex). She spent all her time crying and spent her time reliving it constantly.

The other was HELD AT KNIFEPOINT by her ex. The ex who was stalking her. The one who threatened THEIR kid. SHE was MAD...and she was just checking in one more square to finish this unhappy POINT in her life.

I would suggest anger is a better response than self pity.


----------



## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> Thank you.. All of you..
> 
> I'm amazed how scripted this stuff is.
> Everyone thinks they have some unique story and then they see it's all the same Sh1t.
> 
> I truly see how shell shocked I'm going to be after this is done.


You will not be shell shocked for long. You get it!

Get this Divorce done. Get her out.

Then heal.

And stop driving by her house. You can see how stupid she is acting.

The OM is a loser, what made you think the apartment would be any better......


----------



## sandc

HTH,
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Here's a happy ending to read. Yours is coming man.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...st-friend-having-least-ea-82.html#post1487084


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## Hardtohandle

Just venting..

I fvcking hate the fvck out of her..

I will never, never, never, never, never, never put myself in this fvcking type of situation ever again in my life..

side note my STBXW tells anyone she knows a bullsh1t story. We are getting separated and having a bit of trouble. I of course correct her BS and tell them the truth. The look of shock on there faces is great.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I swear if she starts breaking my balls about these divorce papers, I'm just gonna tell her I don't want the divorce, lets see how quick she freaks out over that..

Nah I think we can fix this.. I love you baby.. Nah not gonna sign..


----------



## Openminded

I know this is very difficult for you. It hurts. An unbearable amount. But it *will *get better. 

You *are *stronger every day.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/01/13 Friday

Wednesday night it was discovered that for the past 6 months my oldest son has been slacking off in school. Go figure that the first time he does this is when he was exposed to my STBXW affair, coincidence ? I would imagine no.

Thursday was report cards and open school. He did good minus the 2 classes he grades lowered. The issue he is in a SP class so you can get bounced out of SP. Fortunately his overall grade average is in the 90s.

My the STBXW went in the morning. I thought we would go together in the afternoon when I got home from work. I was a bit annoyed she went without me. Her comment was " Oh now you want to get involved in your kids lives."

My only answer at this time was " We were a team, I worked and you worked your small hours to take care of the kids. We are no longer a team, so yea I will get involved with the kids lives now."

I have more to tell her but I will wait until the end. 

Its funny how NOW so many things are or were wrong with this marriage, but when she needed to say something she failed. But now she wants to make it the excuses why, because she is ashamed of telling people what she did.

I seen friends of ours at the school. The wife of the couple got the sugar coated story from my wife. I quickly gave the husband and wife the real story. Can I say they were shocked.

Today she goes to this lawyer and lets see what happens. 

All I know is if she now decided on million other changes, I am going to just give up. I'm going to tell her I cannot deal with this anymore. It's too emotional for me and too much stress. 

I will address this situation in the upcoming months. Let her sit in this house for another 2 months while she pays rent, cable and utilities at another apartment. That should change her tune. 

She also commented that I didn't even want to talk to her or she would have told me she went in the early afternoon. 

Gee I wonder why I don't want to talk to her? She can't even apologize for what she has done and acted, but I have to just pretent to be the nice guy and suck this all up. 

NO FVCKING WAY..

She will apologize a day or two before she needs something from me. Then I will get hit with the favor. 

Then I will tell her NO..

I cannot wait to post the disaster stories about her. 

Like I said. I will love again, I will be with someone again. 
BUT I WILL NEVER BE IN THIS SITUATION AGAIN. 
Prenup all the way next time. I am not going to agonize over these things again if it should ever happen again. My friend had one and he was done in 30 days.


----------



## happyman64

H2H

I agree that getting more involved with the kids is necessary.

Because while it might have been your wifes responsibility I do not think you can trust her to do it well if at all anymore.

I do hope you find peace in the near future.

HM64


----------



## Acabado

> Contact the school.
> From now on you are not one of the default parents.
> They must contact you both in the future for everything.
> And never avoid talking to her regarding the children. Tell her to stop shifting the blame.


This self quote if to remind you that from now on you must get completely involved in those tasks your wife, as a SAHM and caregiver was ussualy given by default: schools, teachers, pediatrician, little friend's parents...
Document everything at hand.


ETA 
happyman64 said it better.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/02/13 Saturday.

Well today is the official first time my STBXW left me and the kids at 2 PM until 9 PM to be with the OM at their new apartment. 

Even my mother is shocked at this. 

She has not said anything about the divorce paper work and I am not bring it up myself either. I am not going to show her I give a sh1t about it. 

On one hand not bringing it up just makes this last longer but shows I don't care either.

Bringing it up shows like I care or anxious about the papers. 

So I will wait a few days and let the weekend go, this way during the week there is less time to deal with her. If I bring it up Sunday for example I will have to deal with her all day afterwards and I will just be angry and look to fight with her.

This way on a Monday I just have to deal with her for a few hours and I can ignore her for the most part. I will not be able to do this on Sunday. Just too many hours in the day with her here.


----------



## happyman64

I agree. Do not focus on her. Just yourself and the kids.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/04/13 Monday

I told my STBXW that I didn't want her calling the OM on a phone I pay for. That if she needed to call him, to use her cell phone. She walked away from. I followed her and told her if she can call him on my phone so can I and that she will see what happens if I see his number being called again from my house phone. I then called her a fvcking piece of sh1t.

If she calls on my house phone another time I am going to use the online message service that I control. The message will be 

*"You have reached the house of soandso, If your looking for me or my 2 kids you have reached the correct number. If your looking for my wh0ring, adulteress wife you can reach her at xxx-xxx-xxxx, If she does not answer it is probably because she is servicing he other man soandso, He can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxxx."*

Lets see how she likes thats. It will stay on until she signs the papers.


----------



## Rags

Might be better for your health to detatch.
Just a thought.


----------



## happyman64

If that distances you from her infidelity so be it buy why has she not signed?

If she openly calls him and spends days with him without lying to you she has no reason not to approve the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostAndContent

Showing anger isn't the right way to go. She is now beneath your notice. Your goal is to be the good guy, don't sacrifice your own good reputation to tear down hers. It's fine to expose her to your friends and family, but do it in a nice, calm manner that shows that you are a good person dealing with a ****ty wife, not a bitter person looking to tear your ex-wife down.


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## Hardtohandle

Rags said:


> Might be better for your health to detatch.
> Just a thought.


I don't honestly know how to...

Its crazy, she is living these 2 lives. What she is doing now is bringing the youngest to her new apartment everyday after school and the oldest stays at my home. She stays their until about 6 or 7 pm then come back to my home. 

I have no leverage to force her out and she has zero respect for me. 

I don't want to just go out myself every day as I want to show my sons I am there for them. My oldest is completely resentful but is playing the game. He is not rude to his mother at all, but knows exactly what is going on. 

When his mother says she is going out my oldest son makes air quotes and says mom is going shopping. Just she doesn't come back with anything.

My story is a perfect example of what happens if you don't gain some sort of control. Being a Police Officer does not help me either. I just am too restricted in what I cannot do. As an example if I was joe plumber and I tossed my wife out the cops might come to my house and say look let her back in or else. But being a Cop I know better, so there is no or else. I would get arrested and suspended. 

The false R is what screwed me all over because it gave her time. 

Honestly our divorce is very easy. I keep the 300k in debt and she walks away with 45k, no debt and 1400 a month in support and the truck. It really isn't that hard or much to figure out. I just don't get what the fvcking issue is with her. 

I don't want to have any issues, I just want her out. But I have no clue what is going on.


----------



## Openminded

Detach.

Detach.

*Detach*.

You absolutely have to learn how to do that. Practice.


----------



## warlock07

have you confronted the oM?


----------



## LostAndContent

She won't pull the trigger on divorce because she want's power over you still. She's a user and can't bear the thought of you moving on with your life. Start dating, continue working out. She's scum and beneath your notice. Her children will recognize her for what she is and someday she'll realize they can never respect her. She'll blame you for that, saying you poisoned them against her. Laugh in her face. Every time she tries to blameshift on you, laugh in her face and walk away. Don't try arguing with her. Arguments acknowledge her as a human being. Laugh in her face and think to yourself "look at her trying to pretend she's people" and walk away. Treat her like a retarded (no offense to those with special needs) child trying to argue that she can walk to the moon. You'll never be able to reason with her about why that's ridiculous, so just laugh and walk away. You refusing to acknowledge that her opinions have any worth will drive her crazy, which is a nice side benefit.


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> have you confronted the oM?


I'm gonna ask, for what ? 
We spoke on the phone twice. He is big on calling me a tough guy. I've learned over the years that those that taunt you over the phone become mush when confronted in person.

For all I know he could be directing her to do all of this. 

He has nothing to loose warlock, never married, no kids. No real property, no real job or carrer. 

Again all I need is some sort of allegation against me and I'm fvcked. 

I don't even bring my guns home for this reason. They are locked up in someone else locker that I have no access to. It is something we do on the job to protect each other.

As far as Detaching, I am trying. Week days are fine for the most part. I get home for 7 PM by 10 PM I am in bed, so its 3 hours. Weekends are different, but I go out with friends on Friday or Saturday night or even both nights sometimes. Just I have no single friends now, everyone is married. So they can't take me out all the time and they need to live their lives as well.

My only choice is just to see what is going on with the papers and tell her I cannot deal with this another 3 more months. If they are not signed or something solid agreed upon in the next week, then I will just take her to court and let the chip fall where they may. At least then I know where this is going and I have some control over it. 

Now I am at the whim of what she wants to do and when.


----------



## Hardtohandle

LostAndContent said:


> Showing anger isn't the right way to go. She is now beneath your notice. Your goal is to be the good guy, don't sacrifice your own good reputation to tear down hers. It's fine to expose her to your friends and family, but do it in a nice, calm manner that shows that you are a good person dealing with a ****ty wife, not a bitter person looking to tear your ex-wife down.


Your right.. This is why I vent here..


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/07/13 Thursday

Today was my youngest birthday. I asked her last week if she was going to do something separate or together with our kids. She says I never told her, but I know I did. End result my son had something with her and the OM at their apartment and then came back home. Of course my oldest was home by himself.

I was pissed... She left my oldest home alone and had something with my youngest with this d0uchebag, when she could have had something with our 2 kids instead of continuing neglecting my oldest. 

I felt I had to paint a picture for my oldest and clearly explain to him that his mother should not have done that and that she clearly picked this man over him. 

I know its not the right thing to do, but I honestly could not see it any other way. She could have just done something with them 2 without me, instead she didn't..

She will fvcking pay for what she is doing to my oldest. 

I couldn't wait until Friday to see what was going on with the papers. I asked her today, she says she could not go last Friday but will be going Tuesday. 

She whined about her income tax return. She wants / needs the money. She expressed that her lawyer says it belongs to her and so does our tax guy.

I made it clear that until she signs, she gets sh1t. I also explained that as long as I don't do anything with that money out of the ordinary that I can do whatever I want with that money. 

As she did not sign any papers yet.. The debt we have is still ours. I can pay off our debt if I like with the income tax return. As long as I am not doing anything underhanded no judge will argue that I could not pay off OUR debt. The only thing he can complain about if I go on vacation with money or something.

But I told her I would give her all the fvcking money ( 2k ) if she signed the paperwork already and got the fvck out. 

It seems she is willing to sign finally and get the fvck out. Hopefully.

Tuesday will tell.

I hinted at what I know about him and that I will have one last conversation before she leaves and tell her some news about him that she can take as a parting gift.

But I can't wait to see her fvcking face when I tell her my son is staying. I want to hook up a camera in the room so I can record the sheer look of horror on her face.

I slightly hinted at what she has been doing to my kids or at least the oldest and I could see she didn't understand it. Which is good.

I went at her again, about how she went about this. How she fvcked it up. How she didn't have to do it this way. How this could have been semi understandable. Something a bit more cordial. Something a bit more human like.

She said absolutely nothing. 

I pushed her to explain to me how this all went wrong. I told her yell at me, curse at me. But explain to me what the fvck happen. 

That she first says its the computer then she is telling someone else it was the chemistry ( again she was thrown off that I knew that ). That she has told everyone a different story. But yet has to explain it to me.

That when people ask me why she is leaving I tell them, I have no fvcking clue. That I never got a real story. 

Again I pushed her to yell and curse to tell me off and explain to me how I fvcked this all up so I can understand it. Anything. 

Or don't yell, just tell me when it all went wrong, what happen ? Was it a combination of things. What was it ? 

Let me walk away from this understanding something about this.

She said nothing.

I told her you think being silent is gonna help you ? I told her, When you get into a fight with this guy, what are going to do ? What are you going to do when he reminds you of me arguing with you ? Are you gonna run away again ?. 

I told her again, one day your gonna realize that all you needed to do is talk to me. It honestly was that simple.. 

But it won't matter anymore as I am done. That she not only ruined my life, she ruined her life and our families lives. But the difference is I will recover and get over this. She on the other hand will have to deal with her mistake for the rest of her life. That she will not be the same. She will not be better. That she will not be fixed. That this will not last for her and that sadly for this guy he will be kicked to the curb much faster then I was. 

I only wish this guy would have come around 7 years ago, so I would have had 7 more years of my life. 

I only hope this part of my life can be done for me fast enough.


----------



## happyman64

HTH

Why on earth do you think she would answer your question? Why?

She is messed up and has no good answer.

Protect your kids as best as you can.

And go live. Your life. You will find someone new and better.

BET ON IT! 

Only then will she realize what she has lost.....

HM


----------



## Jonesey

happyman64 said:


> HTH
> 
> Why on earth do you think she would answer your question? Why?
> 
> She is messed up and has no good answer.
> 
> Protect your kids as best as you can.
> 
> And go live. Your life. You will find someone new and better.
> 
> BET ON IT!
> 
> Only then will she realize what she has lost.....
> 
> HM


I so :iagree:


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> HTH
> 
> Why on earth do you think she would answer your question? Why?
> 
> She is messed up and has no good answer.
> 
> Protect your kids as best as you can.
> 
> And go live. Your life. You will find someone new and better.
> 
> BET ON IT!
> 
> Only then will she realize what she has lost.....
> 
> HM


Sadly I'm a man that needs to know and understand. I find it hard to let these things go. It just is in my nature to turn over these stones.

I know eventually I will just let it go. I know once she is gone her image will drift from my mind. 

I told her once she is gone that I never want to speak to her again. That she is to text me messages or email me anything of importance and that she can text me to read my email. I only want to hear from her if there is some emergency with my kids and nothing more.

I spoke to my mother in law today. It is obvious she does not know yet. 

It will drive her totally mad to find out her family which includes her sisters and nieces knew about this for 5 months before she did. She is a women who does not mix words. She will write off these people once she finds out they didn't tell her anything. 

She might play it cool with me as its her daughter. But I don't think so. I think she will be pissed. Of course I will let everyone here know what happens.


----------



## Openminded

It is not healthy for you to keep pushing her for answers. She either doesn't know or doesn't care. In any event, she's not going to tell you.

For your sake, you need to stop.


----------



## Jasel

*Re: Re: I'm having a real hard time dealing with it*



Openminded said:


> It is not healthy for you to keep pushing her for answers. She either doesn't know or doesn't care. In any event, she's not going to tell you.
> 
> For your sake, you need to stop.


Agree with this. Unless its related to the kids, finances or divorce id stop talking to her. Youre not going to get any answers anyway. Bit definitely not going about it like that.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/08/13 Friday night

I went back and reread this whole thread. I'm happy I kept this all in one thread. 

It really does show what a sap I was compared to where I am now. 

I can honestly and truly say I don't want my STBXW back at all. There is nothing that she could ever say that would convince me to get back with her. 

My only issue is understanding what happen. I am coming to terms that this is just something I will never really know or get a true answer about. After rereading I will have to say she just wasn't happy. Something in her just causes her to break down and become this white trash person. 

Its funny because she is on this forum for cafemom and a women asked a question about sex drive in your 40s. She "accidentally" left her history uncleared or I "accidentally" found this thread. Nonetheless my STBXW is going to be 49 this year. So she is in her last year of her 40s. 

My STBXW comment/post was my sex drive was low but then discovered it was my husband I had a problem with. What I found funny about his is we had sex on average 3x a week since we were married.

Even she would say sometimes that I got it more then most married men. 

I would say I'm not complaining.

Of course the humor is at 49, in the last year now its me. She doesn't know I read this, so my point is my wife is so angry at me for some reason that she will attack me even when she knows I know nothing about it. 

Even during the Fake R we screwed several times a day. We were sore and raw from trying to "make up".. 

It just goes to show her mindset. 

Well its hopefully amazing that this stuff might be all done soon on Tuesday.

Again Once its all done I can let out a bit more back story. Things I just feared saying as if she was reading this thread. More of a superstition thing.

4 more days..


----------



## Acabado

Hardtohandle said:


> 4 more days..


Hang in there man.


----------



## Jonesey

Acabado said:


> Hang in there man.


:iagree:


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/11/12 Monday

Just Venting.. Its all the same B.S. 

I didn't do this. You did this. I tried to be nice.. I tried to be civil. I wanted to fix this. I wanted to love you.. 

But you didn't

Instead you treated me like i did something wrong. Like I had the AFFAIR. 

Yea I wasn't perfect.. I fvcked some stuff up. But I didn't do this. You did.

All you needed to do is talk to me. Let me know something was wrong. Instead you did this.. What this was I don't even have a fvcking clue anymore.. 

All I know is your mad at me like I did something. When I try to fight back to try to get get a bit of my dignity and humanity, you get even more mad. Like I should dare to even try. 

End result you want me to lay on the ground and give up, to shrivel up and die. 

I'm sorry I'm not that over weight guy sitting at the computer. I know you thought that things would fall apart around you with you not helping out. But they haven't. 

Now after I lost nearly over 50 LBS during these past 3 months. Now that I am getting involved with my kids. NOW, Now you want to throw snide remarks to me how you used to do this or that for the kids. That now suddenly I want to get involved.

Sorry but that was the fvcking plan.. I would work 50 to 60 hours a week so you could work barely 12 and deal with the kids. To make sure the kids were alright. 

But now yes I will get more involved with the kids and YOU will have to fvcking work more.. That what happens when this sh1t happens. 

NO ONE WINS.. EVERYONE LOOSES... 

Oh except that piece of sh1t that you got an apartment with before we even got a lawyer.. That guy wins.. He gets to have my wife and giggle inside as he helps you destroy me and my family.

But that is the fvcktard you wanted.. 
Look I'm happy you actually took a step down instead of a step up.. It shows what a assh0le you are, how stupid you are.

But I am pissed that this women I love and would have ended this earth for would do this to me. 

That now I need to find someone else. To find someone else to be my soulmate. You know its sort of tough to get a soulmate when you thought you already had one.. 

Its much easier when your single with no kids then doing it with kids. But its not an issue for you because you will just swing from one branch of the relationship tree to another. Making sure you don't let go of the the first branch before grabbing that second one. God for bid you should fall with no one to catch you.

I'm amazed how you act like 19 years just never happened. Like I never mattered. But even though you keep treating me like sh1t, you expect me to bend and be the nice guy.

Well let me tell you, I will NEVER, NEVER be the nice guy. I have zero incentive to be nice to you. Why should I be nice when your not. I didn't do this sh1t. 

What you want this fixed and I don't mean getting back together. I mean just being civil with each other. Well you need to extend yourself out of your comfort zone. You need to wholeheartedly admit you fvcked this up and sincerely are looking to make amends. Then maybe we be a bit more civil when dealing with the kids. 

But right now I am driven to crushing you. To make sure my kids choose me over you, but that they do it willingly and not under any guiles from me. But trust me I will make it where once they decide to come that they don't leave. 

I want you to try to explain why you lost your kids. Why your own kids didn't want to be with you. 

Saturday you FVCKING LIED to your son. You pretended to go to work and even got dressed up as if you were going. But you got CAUGHT LYING.. YOU GOT CAUGHT. 

I told my kids you were lying. I asked the youngest why his mother would lie to him and pretend to go to work when even he clearly knew you went to the apartment. Even he understood that you lied because YOU didn't want him to come with you. So you could be alone having your fvck fest with this OM. But at least the oldest completely and totally understood why. 

And then you LIED again to your son because you told him your answering service for work was accidentally left on a bit long. Little did you know I called while I was out with my kids and I told him yet again you lied because I called your work place. It was a calculated risk that played off for me..

End result my oldest knew this was a BS line when he repeated it to me. 

I was fvcking happy that my youngest for the first time didn't want to go this apartment and stay home with me. It was fvcking honestly fun being home eating pizza with my kids, my brother and my mother. Then you fvcking came home at 9 PM and sucked all the life and fun out of the house.

I just don't understand how for almost 19 years we made love 3x a week. We laughed with each other. That I loved and admired you for being so caring and so fvcking beautiful to me. That I would stop in the middle of making love to you sometimes and just say OMG you are so beautiful. 

And now for some unknown understandable reason you can't even talk to me. 

Yea, everyone tells me you will get hit with reality. I honestly don't think so. 

I'm so mad that I have to start my life over under these conditions. These things weren't suppose to happen to me. They happen to those other people. I was suppose to grow old with my wife and be at my kids wedding. Spoiling my grand kids. 

Now I just want to fvcking run away. I love my kids.. But I just want to run away.. 

I can't handle this sometimes. I basically just trudge along until the next day and hope something better might happen that day. 

I have never been so sad in my fvcking life. I want to be with someone, but I know I'm a basket case. I just don't know how to treat someone anymore. 

How the fvck do I meet someone knowing that they can destroy me like this ? How the fvck do I trust someone knowing that they can totally annihilate me like this. 

Everything is fight for you. Everything. 

Sadly fight and anger are about the only 2 things left in me right now. So I will fight you. I will argue with you because that is what you want. 

I love you, but I wish you dead just about every day and only because I would hope it would crush this OM. Yes I know it would hurt the kids, but I don't care.. 

I want your life to become a downward spiral as soon as possible and if there is ANYTHING I can help do to accelerate it, by all means let me assist. 

I'm just fvcking tired of all of this. This is just SO MUCH wasted energy. 

I just want my life back.

It is almost like you want me to fail, you want me to be fat, you want me to be on that computer, you want me not to care about my kids. It is almost like you don't understand it or expected it. 

You just thought I would roll up into a ball and die. Sorry its not gonna happen. I'm going to survive without you. I am going to stay healthy for me and my kids. I know, I honestly know I am a good looking man. This is what kills you. That you don't see a fat gut on me anymore, that the bills are being paid on time. That I am buying everything for the kids. That I am going out. That the shirt you bought me for Xmas looks good on me. 

I can't wait for you to go. I can't wait to buy that treadmill and put it up in the garage. I can't wait to put all new floors and paint in the house. To get a cleaning lady to come in once a week to keep the place spotless. 

Basically do for myself what you always wanted or desired. Its a shame because together we had over 2k extra cash a month and now we have nothing. We both struggle now. But once I normal out I am retiring from this job and getting another one. I will be moving on. 

I will fix my problems. I will have fun without you. Its a shame we could have done this all together. I see the mistakes we made. We could have fixed them. We could have been better then this.

God dam your such a fvcking assh0le.

I thank god I listen to people, that I understand when people tell me to calm down. That I can understand I get too upset as well. 

Sadly you have no one to listen to except that little troll your with now. That no one has the decency to tell you to stop being a d1ck and and a assh0le. That no one woke you up to reality and told you not to tell do all of this. That you can go but to be human about it.


----------



## JCD

Tell your MIL

Let her the fvck go!

No answers. You want to find this fatal flaw inside of you so you can fix it for round two. Well, you've lost 50 pounds and you aren't a WoWer anymore.

Fixed as much as a fvcked up human being can be.

Maybe it's her. 

LET...IT...GO!

Let *HER* Go!


----------



## karole

You also need to let the anger go - it is eating you up. Are you in counseling?


----------



## Acabado

Venting is not always healthy. It keep you focused on her.
Zone her out. Refocus.
She's almost gone, physically.
Oxigen is almost there.


----------



## BrockLanders

Hardtohandle, could you imagine how much better you would feel if every time she came in the house you laughed at how stupid she was?


----------



## walkonmars

You're giving yourself an ulcer. 
*S T O P 
I T*.


----------



## sandc

It's probably better that he vent here than bottle it up.

But yeah, practice letting go. Or if you can't let go, face the pain and embrace it. If you feel it slipping away grab it and hold onto it again. Soon, you become numb to it and it loses it's effect on you. Then you can see life for what it is. A really nice place. You see a lot of the downside to humanity. There's plenty good out there too.


----------



## Blue Firefly

Hardtohandle said:


> My only choice is just to see what is going on with the papers and tell her I cannot deal with this another 3 more months. If they are not signed or something solid agreed upon in the next week, then I will just take her to court and let the chip fall where they may. At least then I know where this is going and I have some control over it.


Does the OM know that the moment she signs the papers, she will have $45,000 in CASH?

I doubt it, because he would have been pressuring her to sign. You want to speed this up? Make sure he knows he could be up to his elbows in cash, if only she would sign the papers.

BTW, my guess is the HE runs through her money in less than a year. Vacations, clothes, electronics, even a car--all for him.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Thanks everyone..

I haven't been to counseling for about 3 weeks. Need to learn how to let go. It just really is beyond me ATM.. I will call today and see what I need to do or how to learn. 

Let us see what tomorrow brings. 

Issue as I see it, I love her unfortunately. 

*BUT*

I in no way shape or form show her any signs of feelings. I suppress those feelings.

I understand we are done. 

I understand and accept that she needs to go and she is not welcome in my house anymore. 

I know we will never be back together. I truly understand what everyone is saying about once she is gone and finding someone else. 

I need to learn how to detach. I need some sort of mediation technique or something. 

I do have some angst about dealing with the kids. I really was the guy that worked while the wife was home. I need to learn how to socialize with the kids a bit more.

My son is very quiet though. He is like his mother. I try to get some feelings out of him but sometimes I see he has issues expressing his feelings. 

So it is like I am learning to deal with my own kids.. I know its weird. Maybe we just had/have a dysfunctional family all around.

I guess I am panicking about new responsibilities and having to deal with the kids and what not.

I also tend to plan ahead by days, weeks, months and years. I'm over thinking all this stuff as well and I know it. It is just me trying to handle different scenarios and the What IF situations so I don't get caught off guard. 

But at least I listen  or try to at least..


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

"I need to learn how to socialize with the kids a bit more."

I wouldn't sweat this one too much. It'll happen easier than you think it will. Trust me. Kids are alot easier to socialze with than growups. I believe that if things do get tough for awhile, this will be the one shinning light that will help see you through to the other side. My Daughter is the ONLY reason I am here Today...


----------



## inabadway

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks everyone..
> 
> I need to learn how to socialize with the kids a bit more.
> 
> So it is like I am learning to deal with my own kids.. I know its weird. Maybe we just had/have a dysfunctional family all around.
> 
> I guess I am panicking about new responsibilities and having to deal with the kids and what not.


I am going through the same thing as my STBXW took care of most of the kids stuff. My advice, step back and enjoy it. Being involved is a good thing - I'm even inserting myself into areas that I considered 'not my realm'. You know what....I love it. An the kids seems to enjoy it as well. 

It gets easier if you are able to detach and look at things from the outside. I'm right with you. I still love my wife, or rather I love who my STBXW used you be. She is no longer that person. She likely hasn't been that person for a long time but I had placed her on a pedestal for so long that I chose to ignore all the faults. You need to do that; step back, write a list of what you like about your STBXW and what you don't like. Be very honest about it. If she has a hot as-, that goes in the 'pro' column. Self esteem issues goes in the 'con' column. I think you'll be surprised at what you find out. It took a few days for me to fully complete the list - now I carry it with me wherever I go.

Another thing that helped me. Stop reading these forums all the time. Stop in every couple of days for a tune up but don't let the need to understand or whatever you are looking to get from these forums consume you. It only brings back the emotions over and over again. The posters have already given you all the advice you need...they were invaluable to me and seem to have done the same for you. It's not a bad thing to stop in to get some support every now and then but it seems to be consuming you.

Your story seems to be very similar to mine in many ways. It's been awhile since I've read your whole thread but I remember how close things were; number of years of marriage, number of children, the distance in the relationship, the choice to turn to WoW after countless times of rejection, etc, etc.

You've lost 50lbs in 3 months, it sounds like you are financially moving in the right direction, you're re-connecting with your children. These are all wonderful things! Embrace those and let go of the anger you feel towards your STBXW. She is doing you a favor. It sucks now but in a year...maybe 2 you will want to walk up to POSOM, shake his hand and thank him.


----------



## Ever-Man

Reading through this thread I forget how long the recovery process can be for betrayed and bereft spouses. The affairs, with their lies and subterfuge completely leave the victims frozen in time with the rug pulled out from under them, totally lost and fumbling as if in a dark cave. 

All I can say is you will find happiness again, it is in your control, you first need to KILL the love you have for the MEMORY of your wife. Frankly, you are loving an illusion of who you thought your wife was. You are wasting your time feeling any love for a person who would destroy you so thoughtlessly for their own happiness. 

Being cuckolded is as bad as rape, it leaves scars and takes time to process what happened. Your first step is to see your X for the POS that she is, stop loving someone like that.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/14/13 Thursday

Well she signed the paperwork. I will get the copies today so I can bring them to my lawyer. I will review them one final time to make sure everything is covered.

Nothing I can do I know. I'm just still in the I can't believe this is happening mode. I'm okay with it and I'm accepting it, just a shame things go this way. 

I wish I could teach people to let them know that you need to speak up. You need to let that other person know what is going on with your life, what turmoil your going through. That there are things are worth fighting for. 

I guess everything happens for a reason. Hopefully I learned something for the next go around.

I friend of mine sort of said something to me which sort of falls into a older post in which my brother made a comment to me. Basically he said I equated sex to a relationship or a good relationship. I can see and understand what he is saying. He also expressed that its not an excuse to have this happen though.

He felt the lack of having a father could have contributed to it as well. My mom loves me, but at that time she has it rough herself and was working 6 days a week 12 hours a day. Even at 12/13 years old I was working to 2 jobs to make ends meet. I can remember my mother being very upset and completely stressed out. I would imagine she probably had a mini breakdown herself.

I guess that is something I will have to be cognizant and look out for in the future.

On a good note I made my son mac and cheese yesterday. We were alone pretty much the whole day. My wife came home with my youngest at 9 PM. 

I asked my son if he was going to be okay with his mom not being home. I said to him it will pretty much like this, seeing they weren't really home all day. He said he was fine with it, which was good to hear.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Someone needs to kick me in the face. No matter how many times I read don't talk about anything but divorce and kids. I get sucked into a fight with the STBXW and it always comes around ( because I bring it around ) to how she did me wrong. Not the cheating, just the attitude about it afterwards. That gets me mad and upset as many know here. 

I keep telling myself today just to talk about divorce papers and kid issues nothing else. I am going to try to keep it this way if I can REMEMBER to learn to STFU and just walk away. 

I just love to argue and fight. It is the only reason I can come up with. I just cannot let her say something without me making a comment back. It drives me fvcking nuts.. 

But I know I need to just STFU..


----------



## Chaparral

When she is around, put a big rubber band on your wrist and snap it when you want to talk back to her. It works.

Why haven't you told her mother?

I think the most remarkable, the most surprising thing, about TAM is how great the betrayed spouses get along after the break up. It is shocking and wonderful to see the BS come from out of their own fog and find a new, normal spouse to be with that REALLY loves them.

Use the guy's mantra...........I desreve good things.........say it every time this crap crosses your mind.

Your wife has given you a new lease on life. All she has given herself is the title cheating blank.


----------



## workindad

OP
Before you know it- you will be happy again and will put this into perspective. As Chapparal points out- you now have the opportunity to rebuild your life minus a cheating and unremorseful spouse. That is not a bad thing... not at all.

Keep in mid, every time you come at her- she receives validation that you are still passionate about her- a win for her if you will. When you can show her no reaction... it will leave her head spinning.

Good Luck
WD


----------



## Blue Firefly

Hardtohandle said:


> Someone needs to kick me in the face. No matter how many times I read don't talk about anything but divorce and kids. I get sucked into a fight with the STBXW and it always comes around ( because I bring it around ) to how she did me wrong. Not the cheating, just the attitude about it afterwards. That gets me mad and upset as many know here.
> 
> I keep telling myself today just to talk about divorce papers and kid issues nothing else. I am going to try to keep it this way if I can REMEMBER to learn to STFU and just walk away.
> 
> I just love to argue and fight. It is the only reason I can come up with. I just cannot let her say something without me making a comment back. It drives me fvcking nuts..
> 
> But I know I need to just STFU..


I haven't read the whole thread, but I assume someone has told you by now: *the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.*

Love and hate both reside in a person's heart. Indifference doesn't reside anywhere--it's an orphan.

If she can come over and pull your strings and make you angry, she knows she is still lives in your heart.

If you really want to hurt her, if you really want to be...*cruel* and crush her emotionally, act indifferently towards her.

The next time you get an urge to lash out at her, stop and think "no, instead I'm going to hurt her by acting indifferent towards her." Maker her no different that the turd you flushed down the toilet this morning. Do you hate the turd? Did you get all emotional about the turd? No, it's just a turd; you crapped it out of you; flushed it, and forgot about it.


----------



## Openminded

I'm concerned you are going to end up with a heart attack at the rate you are going. Anger can kill you. Remember that. *And back off.*


----------



## Shaggy

She signed, ok. Then expose the cheating to everyone and post both of them on cheaterville where they belong.


----------



## JCD

You just don't listen!

You can't alpha dog her back to you.

You can't reason yourself back into her heart.

You can't slim down enough to slip into her heart.

Shut the Fvck Up!

Don't see or talk to her without someone else present if that is what it takes. Get your partner to help you out and give him firm instructions.

"Here is a list of what I am supposed to talk about. If I stray off this point, I want you to taze me or put me in a headlock and drag me off to my room."

Do what you have to. Bu*t you aren't trying particularly hard.*


----------



## Hardtohandle

Openminded said:


> I'm concerned you are going to end up with a heart attack at the rate you are going. Anger can kill you. Remember that. *And back off.*


I know your right.. My blood pressure was 159/128... I need to relax


----------



## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> I know your right.. My blood pressure was 159/128... I need to relax


You need to more than relax.

You need to let go before it eats you up alive and kills you.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/17/2013 Sunday



JCD said:


> You just don't listen!
> 
> You can't alpha dog her back to you.
> 
> You can't reason yourself back into her heart.
> 
> You can't slim down enough to slip into her heart.
> 
> Shut the Fvck Up!
> 
> Don't see or talk to her without someone else present if that is what it takes. Get your partner to help you out and give him firm instructions.
> 
> "Here is a list of what I am supposed to talk about. If I stray off this point, I want you to taze me or put me in a headlock and drag me off to my room."
> 
> Do what you have to. Bu*t you aren't trying particularly hard.*


Your right.. I know your right.. 

It is like part of me thinks being a new man might change her mind somehow..

I actually have a rubber band around my wrist now to remind me to STFU. I even say it everyday now.. 

Monday I will talk to the lawyer to make sure all is good. If so I will sign and be done with this.




Blue Firefly said:



> I haven't read the whole thread, but I assume someone has told you by now: the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
> 
> Love and hate both reside in a person's heart. Indifference doesn't reside anywhere--it's an orphan.
> 
> If she can come over and pull your strings and make you angry, she knows she is still lives in your heart.
> 
> If you really want to hurt her, if you really want to be...cruel and crush her emotionally, act indifferently towards her.
> 
> The next time you get an urge to lash out at her, stop and think "no, instead I'm going to hurt her by acting indifferent towards her." Maker her no different that the turd you flushed down the toilet this morning. Do you hate the turd? Did you get all emotional about the turd? No, it's just a turd; you crapped it out of you; flushed it, and forgot about it.


Funny you say that about the turd. My friend said a similar thing about the OM. But it definitely relates to this as well.

No matter how good I might have it compared to others financially I have this big letting go issue. My friends cheered for me seeing I got my pension and other monies and only have to pay child support. That my son is going to be staying with me and I will only have to pay her half support. 

But I still have this dam letting go issue. Things don't bother me as they used to, but she opens her mouth and I feel like Abbot and Costello with the Susquehanna Hat company skit. Susquehanna Hat Co - YouTube


----------



## Openminded

Hardtohandle said:


> I know your right.. My blood pressure was 159/128... I need to relax


Please, please do. Your friends at TAM worry about you. A lot.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/21/13 Thursday

Yesterday. 

I worked from 0645 to 1730 ( 5:30 PM), went to chiropractor after work and got home for 1900 ( 7 PM). STBXW wasn't home. Oldest got slammed with some extra homework. Was helping him out with Essays and helping out my youngest with weighing things on a scale homework. 

I washed the dishes in the sink my wife left me. I made mac and cheese for the kids for dinner. Mind you my wife has not bought any food for the house for the past month. Finished helping my oldest reviewing his Essays. 

My wife gets home for 8:30 PM, while I am cooking for the youngest. He didn't want mac and cheese then changed his mind.

By 9:00 all is done with essays and finish washing the dishes again. I jump in the shower and then then have to go down stairs to remove bandages from my moms surgery. 

At 9:30 PM I am done and spent. I know my STBXW as smirking because of all I was doing and I wanted to go at her for not buying anything for the kids. But I kept my mouth shut. 

I know it also annoyed her that she was cut out of my oldest homework issues. She wanted to show some involvement but I made sure my son came to me after he was done to cut her out.

Today in hindsight I was happy to be there and get that all done. I only wish I would have come home sooner. But at least I showed my wife, life continues in our household without her.


----------



## sandc

Soon she will be out permanently. Then she can cease to exist for you. Or you can work toward her ceasing to exist. There are better women out there. Some of them even like cops.


----------



## happyman64

> Today in hindsight I was happy to be there and get that all done. I only wish I would have come home sooner. But at least I showed my wife, life continues in our household without her.


Mission Successful!


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/22/13 Friday 

All I can say is today was an odd day. I went to a large department store and was looking for a casual jacket. Sadly my STBXW was buying all my cloths for the last 18 years. 

I put this jacket on and it looked good. I sent a pic of me in it to some friends and they all liked it. So let me buy it. 

Well the jacket went for 475 dollars. Yes I know, expensive. Nutshell I relate to a sales women about me having to buy cloths again after 19 years of being married. She tells me things will get better for me. She then tells another sales clerk that since I pulled the jacket off a 50% rack that they had to honor the sale. THEN I reopened an old, but closed charge card from the department store and they gave me 20% and another 15%. It went down from 475 to 209.. I ended up buying 2 pairs of casual shoes and 3 pairs of pants. 

I came home at 3:30 and I discovered my STBXW was still here. It was odd since she has the apartment to go to and goes there every day. But not today. 

I am starting to think that since she hit me up for the papers or where we stand with the papers. I am thinking she might be getting some flack from the OM. I am pretty sure she is pretty broke as well. She won't get paid until next friday.

Both me and my brother were thinking that the OM might start to see he is really dishing out a lot of money and that they might both be broke since he really didn't have anything as well.

End result playing pretend marriage might that be so much fun for them and they might have had their first fight.. How cute.. :rofl:

As a side note I do think she is noticing weight loss and oddly enough my hair cut. I have had several people tell me my hair cut looks good. Which reminds me I have to kiss the barber next time I see him.

Tomorrow I am going out with a friend and his wife who is bringing along 3 or 4 single coworkers. I think the new cloths and look should give the STBXW a little ego crush.

I think me just venting here and just moving on with my life might be starting to take a toll on her as financially they are in a stand still. 

My brother asked me what I would do if she looked to reconcile. I was honest. As much as it would kill me, this is at an end. I just can't go back to find my iphone and cross referencing calls with contact list and spokeo and google searches for unknown numbers. Plus I learned I can't track a phone I don't know about. 

Too many lies..


----------



## walkonmars

You're doing much, much, better than you were last week. She sees you as a the light from a lamp and the OM as the light from the sun.

In no time, and especially if they are struggling financially, her sunshine will go dark. Not your problem. 

Life goes on.


----------



## Acabado

Now you are starting to get the right track.
Hang in ther man.


----------



## BobSimmons

Hi, you should be doing it for you, not for her. Trying to make her jealous or feel sorry is just game playing because ultimately you're doing these things for an ulterior motive and not for self.

For you and your kids, not for her. That is moving on. You won't even need to see she's reacting or she's jealous because it won't matter.


----------



## Jasel

Sounds like you're doing better. New clothes are always a plus:smthumbup:

Why is your wife still there? I thought she was moving out?? Sorry if this has been answered already but sometimes it's hard to keep track of who is who.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/28/13 Thursday.

What can I say. I'm fvcking really down today. I just hate this.

How I wish this could be fixed somehow. I just don't get it, how this all fell apart. Why we don't talk, why we can't be even semi civil.

I just want my family back. 

I second guess everything, If I would have done this then maybe it would have worked out, If I would have waited maybe it would have worked out, If I would have been a bit more patient then maybe it would have worked out.

I just can't handle the reality that she just might not love me anymore.. Period.. That this might be the very simple and plain truth. 

I just don't know anymore..

Nothing happen to trigger this today. I'm just sad.. 

I have a date on saturday which is good I guess. 

I've been good for a while and I just woke up today crying, depressed and just tired.

I called the lawyer yesterday to try to get this done. He has been in court since last week. 

I just wish I could see my wife crumble once to let me know its not just me. It kills me she can just move along like all is okay. Granted I don't fall apart infront of her so she could be going over to her apartment during the day and falling apart over there by herself while the OM is working.

This sh1t is just so crazy. I don't wish this on anyone.


----------



## Aunt Ava

H2H, you can second guess yourself into Crazy Town - but there's just no point. Your wife chose this, and logically you know that she is 100% responsible for her affair. You own your share of the problems in the marriage, and all you can do now is try to learn from them and do better in the future. 

You can handle this, you have to handle this. Your sons are looking to you, they are relying on you and you can't let them down. You have family that loves you, and supports you. You have friends and co-workers that understand and support you. Focus on a better future, look forward not backward. 

You know there are going to be days when it's going to be rough, but you also have to know that it's going to get better. You will get through this and you can come out on the other side a better man. Try to see this as an opportunity. Your life before was okay, your life in the future can be incredible. You can create it if you so choose. 

Hang in there, as someone's tag line reads "When going through hell keep going." Winston Churchill


----------



## Openminded

You will have ups and downs. I don't know how long they last because I'm still going through it. But when I have a down period I focus strongly on a new and better life once I get beyond this. I try not to think about what used to be. That's gone.

You *can *do it.


----------



## happyman64

H2H

The way you feel is perfectly normal.

The roller coaster for you will not end until you make that conscious decision to end the ride.

So make that decision.

For your own mental health as well as your kids well being.

Sometimes it is hard to take that initial step to move forward.

But if you look down you will see you already have.

HM64


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/29/13 Friday

Thanks everyone

It is so weird, today I'm happy as a jaybird. It's nuts.. 

Wife told the kids she is not coming home tonight.. My oldest said he was shocked that his mother even told him as she usually just tells the youngest. 

I almost felt bad that my oldest made a sarcastic remark like that about his mothers comments. My youngest didn't want to go with her either, so hopefully she is seeing that doesn't have the control she might think she does. 

I told the youngest if he wants to go with mommy tonight to let me know and I will bring him over there. Great way to fvck up her night.


----------



## happyman64

> Great way to fvck up her night.


You can say that again.

Hope you find some peace now.


----------



## verpin zal

Hardtohandle said:


> 03/21/13 Thursday
> 
> Yesterday.
> 
> I worked from 0645 to 1730 ( 5:30 PM), went to chiropractor after work and got home for 1900 ( 7 PM). STBXW wasn't home. Oldest got slammed with some extra homework. Was helping him out with Essays and helping out my youngest with weighing things on a scale homework.
> 
> I washed the dishes in the sink my wife left me. I made mac and cheese for the kids for dinner. Mind you my wife has not bought any food for the house for the past month. Finished helping my oldest reviewing his Essays.
> 
> My wife gets home for 8:30 PM, while I am cooking for the youngest. He didn't want mac and cheese then changed his mind.
> 
> By 9:00 all is done with essays and finish washing the dishes again. I jump in the shower and then then have to go down stairs to remove bandages from my moms surgery.
> 
> At 9:30 PM I am done and spent. I know my STBXW as smirking because of all I was doing and I wanted to go at her for not buying anything for the kids. But I kept my mouth shut.
> 
> I know it also annoyed her that she was cut out of my oldest homework issues. She wanted to show some involvement but I made sure my son came to me after he was done to cut her out.
> 
> Today in hindsight I was happy to be there and get that all done. I only wish I would have come home sooner. But at least I showed my wife, life continues in our household without her.


Man doing housework and helping the kids.

There are a plethora of women who are willing to make you feel like you are some kind of major deity, you know this right?


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/01/13 Monday

Well Here is how the weekend went..

STBXW left on Friday and never came home until Sunday night at 8 PM.. 

She wanted the youngest to go with her to the OM family house for Easter but the little guy said no.. It was great for me.. We played gears of war until dinner and then we played some more. Then watched walking dead together.

Saturday night had a date.. What can I say, it went VERY WELL 

This is an odd story that happen Saturday night. My oldest took some school pictures and noticed that they were gone. His mother took them to her apartment. He texted her and asked to see them. 

For some reason she thought it was either me telling him to ask for them or me pretending to be him in the text message. She asked for him to call to see if it was me. He called and she asked if I was there putting him up to asking. My son responds dad isn't here, he went out. My STBXW then asks to speak to the youngest and asks him the same thing to see if I am in the room or in the house. Again he said I was out. 

My son didn't understand why she would do that. I really didn't understand either beyond she didn't want me to have a picture. 

I again explained to him I don't understand why mommy would do those things. Maybe she is going through some issues. But regardless I love his mother and that she has to deal with these things in her own way. 

I called the inlaws on Sunday for Easter. I won't bore everyone with the details. The end result is they NOW know and they were very, very pissed off at their daughter. They were shocked to find out that everyone in the family knew before them and no one told them or that no one offered to talk to her daughter to knock some sense into her at least not to end this the way she did. I expressed how sad I was at one time about her daughter and what she did. Her mothers words were "*She is not worth it"*. She was further shocked to know they have an apartment together and that her daughter was gone the whole weekend without seeing the kids. 

Something I want to bring up about the date.

How can I explain this. I have come to realize that being an adult things move faster then when your a young adult in your 20s..

The one odd thing I have come to understand after a moment of heavy kissing at the end of the night. I understood at least the excitement of the affair and those moments of meeting up. 

It doesn't excuse the affair, but I at least now understand some of the emotions behind it. I guess after 19 years together I forgot about that sort of new boyfriend / girlfriend feeling. The excitement of having something new.

But nonetheless the sun shines a bit more for me today.

I think its this turning point where it changes everything. I'm happy to be alive then just waking up everyday and dragging along. My sons really hug me today compared to the past, they tell me they love me and I can hear it. Its just very different then 3 months ago or even a year ago.

It really does get better. I never believed it when I kept saying it to myself, but it really does.. It's those days you feel the sh1ttiest that you need to drag yourself until the next day and the next day. Eventually you get to the other side of that chasm of dispair and make your way out to the other side.

I really have come to realize how foolish this all is. How people get so worked up and they really can't see the forest beyond the trees syndrome. I would guess my BS fog has lifted and I can truly see that once her own fog lifts she will realize herself how crazy this is and was. I truly feel bad for her because she will be in such a fvcked up place and there is nothing I will be able to do for her or want to do for her.

As a side note a friend of mine who was out sick for 2 months on a injury just came back. He has an elliptical machine and a treadmill he was going to sell, but now he is giving them to me for free. So I just saved $ 1,000 I was going to spend on just one machine.

He also was showing me houses in north carolina for $ 380,000 which were 5500 square feet with 5 bedrooms. I was pretty excited about it. Some very nice stuff, though I am still considering Texas eventually, but it was nice to know whats out there.

Lets see what tomorrow brings. 
Thanks all at TAM for keeping me alive.


----------



## sandc

So glad to read this. You sure don't need to be dragging that baggage onto the streets with you. Glad that stuff is slowly sliding off you. You'll be safer that way. So will the good people of your city.


----------



## warlock07

the inlaws did not know until now? :scratchhead:



> This is an odd story that happen Saturday night. My oldest took some school pictures and noticed that they were gone. His mother took them to her apartment. He texted her and asked to see them.
> 
> For some reason she thought it was either me telling him to ask for them or me pretending to be him in the text message. She asked for him to call to see if it was me. He called and she asked if I was there putting him up to asking. My son responds dad isn't here, he went out. My STBXW then asks to speak to the youngest and asks him the same thing to see if I am in the room or in the house. Again he said I was out.
> 
> My son didn't understand why she would do that. I really didn't understand either beyond she didn't want me to have a picture.


She is screwing up the kids!! Especially the younger one..

I don't remember this but who is the OM ? Your best revenge would be to let him have your WW.


----------



## happyman64

H2H
Keep being you. Show the boys what a man does in a tough spot. Glad to see u picking yourself up and living. 

Never forget. 

Good call with the Inlaws by the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> the inlaws did not know until now? :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> She is screwing up the kids!! Especially the younger one..
> 
> I don't remember this but who is the OM ? Your best revenge would be to let him have your WW.


The OM is a 54 year old with nothing and I mean nothing add in he has never married and never had kids. 

They already moved in together months ago. I just won't let her leave with the kids until we get divorce papers. She just sleeps in the couch for now. So she stays there weekdays until around 7 or 8 pm and then comes home. By 10 PM if I am in the living room and she is in the bedroom I kick her out of the room and send her to the couch/bed so I can go to sleep.

He can have her, there are more then enough women I can get in my very big city.. I have finally realized its that easy.. I just haven't dated for almost 20 years so my mindset was back to when I was 20.


----------



## happyman64

Enjoy being twenty again.

Sadly, this whole event will end badly for your wife.

It is doomed.

And by the time she ever wakes up you will be long gone.

Keep moving forward.


----------



## warlock07

How old are you and the WW ? Is OM a coworker ?


----------



## JCD

What you lacked before was hope and a sense of a future which didn't include a sh*tty apartment and being alone forever.

Now...you see that isn't so. Nothing is promised to you, but there IS potential out there.


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> How old are you and the WW ? Is OM a coworker ?


I will be 46 and she will be 49.. He is 53 or 54 construction worker, not bad mouthing construction workers. But the guy couldn't get work in Louisiana / New Orleans after it was leveled by the ocean. He worked for Home Depot over there as an installer, Basically subcontractor. He left our big city because construction here is seasonal due to the winter. Over there no snow means work all year round. But like anything you get paid what the going rate is for the area your in. So you can't charge big city prices in that area. As an example, a Computer Forensic examiner in the city where I work makes 125 to 150 per hour. In other states like that they make about 75 to 90 per hour. Since that is what I do for my job I know many people across the country and know there going rates. Further he don't work, he don't get paid. He has no sick leave. No vacation time. 

I have unlimited sick and 6 weeks vacation time. I can walk into my office and decide I want to go home. I can take off every friday and monday for a month if I wanted. It is my vacation time.


The OM is just someone she met at a street fair supposedly. Mother and Father deceased. His brothers, sisters and nieces and nephews knew she was married and were aware of the affair. They cheered on Facebook when they got back together. They were happy he found love, even though it was with another mans wife. 

End result I have no one to out her to beyond her family. Her family knew beyond her mother and father until Easter. Her families response ( beyond the mother and father of course ) was she is blood, I understand how you feel and I feel bad, but I need to stick behind her because she is family.

My wife literally went from working 4 hours *( 12 hours max a week, most time she worked anywhere from 17 to 21 hours every 2 weeks )*, 3 days a week to having to work 5 to 6 days a week* ( though she cannot find steady work like that, so she is stuck working on and off in places )*. She gave up our home. My pension and assorted other retirement money. Gave up a 19 year relationship. She literally gave up doing whatever she wanted. She had Tuesday, Thursday, Friday off. I have family in the same home and my kids were self sufficient, which means she could pick them up from school take them home and then go out to do whatever she wanted, shopping, going to the gym, fvck other men, ETC... 

The reality is she never cleaned the home beyond washing cloths and cooking 3 to 5 times a week. We weren't rich but we didn't cry for a dollar. She would buy tons of cloths and jewelry. She basically did what she wanted. She would spend a week cleaning when she knew people were coming over. Sadly when your married and love someone you over look stuff. 

My plan was to retire this year, sell the home, buy a much larger and nicer home in another state and have a cleaning lady come in to clean the house as we did whatever we wanted. Between retirement money and a new job I could have cleared clean, take home about 10k a month, mind you that is not considering her working if anything. Or we could have both had part time jobs and brought in 2k each for 9k a month. Reminder I get a 10k check at the end of the year until I die.

Nutshell she will have to work until 65 to collect a social security check and nothing else. The 45K I am giving her is partially spent already, that I know. She absolutely needs this guy now. She cannot survive without him. They are attached at the hip. The only way I see her leaving him is if she finds someone else and does to him what she did to me. If he splits she could not financially survive, I am sure of it. A 2 bedroom apartment goes for 1300 to 1500 a month. 1300 being a bad one that needs work or in a bad area. 

As for myself, I will find someone new, I will eventually remarry ( prenup of course ). The great thing is since I remarried my new wife will also collect part of my social security check, which screws over the STBXW as well. I know this because it happened to my mother when my father left and remarried.

Honestly it doesn't matter who my STBXW meets, she has issues that she needs to deal with and until she does, she will always be broken and have to deal with these issues no matter who she is with. She can runaway all she wants, she will never outrun herself..

For a therapist to tell me there is nothing wrong with me but a broken heart is pretty good for me. I haven't been gaming since Sept 2012. It was something I did to pass the time. It was the wrong thing to do, to pass the time. I should have spent it with my wife doing something. I should have controlled the money or helped control the money so we could go away on vacations once or twice a year. I should have spent more time and payed more attention to my kids. Those are my mistakes.

I learned what my mistakes are and a I accept ownership of them. I will try my hardest not to do those things moving forward in my life. 

My STBXW still has no clue what her issues are.

P.S. Mother in law called STBXW and let her know she knew. STBXW was upset and wanted to know who told her. STBXW told her mother she would call her and talk to her but still hasn't since Sunday. I have come to learn today from my mother in law that family members did try to talk to her but she just blows them off. She basically has shut down all contact with family and relatives. 

Its a bit strange, honestly.


----------



## Acabado

The light at the end of the tunnel seems aproaching fast.
You are going to be OK.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/03/13 Weds

Simple and short.

I've been with someone else and it has changed my perspective. 

It really does change your mind. 

She knows my whole issue and is okay with it. She is 6 years younger then the STBXW, just as good looking and better body. Tragic widow with 2 twin 5yr old girls. As sad as it is at least I don't have to worry about a man grilling her or me about being around his Ex or the kids.

Dating and sex with someone else really do help out.


----------



## BjornFree

Good for you. Just take it slow and you should be fine.


----------



## happyman64

I agree. Take it slow.

And I am glad you both found each other.

Because in a way you are both widows.......


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Hardtohandle said:


> 04/03/13 Weds
> 
> Simple and short.
> 
> I've been with someone else and it has changed my perspective.
> 
> It really does change your mind.
> 
> She knows my whole issue and is okay with it. She is 6 years younger then the STBXW, just as good looking and better body. Tragic widow with 2 twin 5yr old girls. As sad as it is at least I don't have to worry about a man grilling her or me about being around his Ex or the kids.
> 
> Dating and sex with someone else really do help out.


That's great news. Nothin' helps push out those old, bad memories like creating some new, good ones.

There's been a few more post that I've read where BS's are doing better and moving on lately. I hope we see more of this...


----------



## walkonmars

Te va caer tu momento de paz y gloria.

(you'll achieve your days of peace and victory)


----------



## Hardtohandle

BjornFree said:


> Good for you. Just take it slow and you should be fine.


Everyone has been telling me that. 

I am understanding that.. I wake up thinking about this women. 

My emotions are all over the place.. 

I tell you, this is gonna sound retarded. My good friend was explaining it to me as well. He explains it to me like this.

Your too easy going and too nice and that isn't bad but here is the problem when it comes to women.. 

Your basically the guy everyone wants to set up with a girl or cousin they know because your such a nice and honest guy. But when women meet you, they fall for you fast and hard because your so nice and honest. Plus your always goofing off and doing something crazy everyone loves to have you around. You make fun of yourself to make everyone laugh. 

Which is what I think is happening now I think. She is trying to hold off and pull back, but I can see she getting emotional. 

We both have been saying take it slow. I have met her kids once, but I will not at all introduce her to my kids. Heck I'm not even divorced yet. 

Another friend said, you don't have break anything off with her but just date other women. You don't have to fvck them, just date. Eventually you might come full circle and see this first women is the one you want to be with.

Again I fell into the sex=dating/relationship. To me in my head date meant sex. 

Not my divorce issues, which is good. I would rather have these issues all day instead.


----------



## sandc

Just don't break any hearts to heal your own.


----------



## Hardtohandle

sandc said:


> Just don't break any hearts to heal your own.


How the fvck do I say this. I really like this women. She is a widow that takes care of her kids and her home.. Her home is 100 x nicer then mine. 

I just really see what I was missing with my wife. 

I am really starting to feel like my STBXW was a bad penny. Like an abused child thinks it is normal to hit people because that is how they were brought up..

I look at this women and see what she does with younger kids and my STBXW couldn't do sh1t.. 


My STBXW now has completely fell into almost total neglect of the kids. All she does now is takes them to school and picks them up and drops them off at my home. She then leaves them to go to her apartment. She comes home around 8 or 9 PM. 

NOW on Fridays she leaves and does not come home until Sunday at around 9 PM..

She used to ask the youngest if he wanted to go to the apartment with her, but as of recent has stopped asking him to come along.

My youngest broke down crying Saturday night. I went out. He knew I was going out. I tell him I am going out but that I will be home. I am not leaving him like his mother does.

My mother said at dinner, he just began crying. She got my brother to make him laugh and got him out of his funk. He said he missed his mother.

I spoke to my little guy Sunday about it. I told him if he was that sad, he should have called his mother or called me. I would have come home. The women I am seeing has kids and completely understands or would understand. I told her Sunday what I found out and she felt bad.

I tell you what I like about this women. Its retarded, but you will understand. She has to pay for a baby sitter to go out. So I took her out to dinner, cost me 120 dollars. Went to a bar afterwards, we were suppose to go to a comedy club but I failed to make reservations, I just didn't think I needed them. My bad. But when we were in the bar I went to the bathroom. She put down 25 dollars on the bar. I told her to take it back, of course she didn't. I put down another 40 on the bar by the end. 

I think she paid the sitter 60 dollars, plus the 25. It cost her 85 dollars to go out with me that night. I honestly felt bad.. She is on a fixed income. But that she is paying to go out with me, makes a good impression on me.

She eventually came clean about her feelings about me over the last 2 weeks. 

I can tell you my whole mindset has changed. What I thought was right, was wrong. What I thought was good, was bad. I had some shallow thoughts, until I met this women. 

I got into a conversation with my mother, yes I still ask my 80 year old mother for advice. But she said something to me, that I was thinking. 

The crux of what we discussed was a basically that her with 2 kids would understand my situation, much better then a single women in her early 40s. Granted I am not making a blanket statement, but she understands I need to spend time with my kids, though I want to see her and I understand she needs to do thing with her kids, though she wants to see me.

Where as a single women, because she has the free time might be a bit annoyed that I can't see her because I need to spend time with my kids. Further that a single women might not have the same feeling of being with kids like I do per say. So she might want to go away on vacation with me alone, where as I would want to bring my kids. Again not a blanket statement. Just bringing out a point of how my mother was more geared towards this women instead of someone maybe a bit younger and with no kids. Oddly my mother at one point said this woman's 2 girls ( twins ) deserved a father. 

I am having another issue which I am going to start another thread on, but I will mention it hear for completeness. I have an issue with retarded ejaculation. Blessing and a curse I think.


----------



## Jasel

Didn't she move out? Why does she keep coming back to your place? Or am I misreading that?


----------



## LetDownNTX

I think she has an apt to go to but wont move out completely until the divorce is final because she wants to take the kids with her?!


----------



## Hardtohandle

LetDownNTX said:


> I think she has an apt to go to but wont move out completely until the divorce is final because she wants to take the kids with her?!


Exactly.. 

Almost done. She signed, I just need to meet with the lawyer and make sure it is all good and to confirm it says what it says. I did find some mistakes the first time around. As many know and understand once I sign this I can't take it back. So I really need to make sure it is all good.

I won't let her leave with the kids until the papers are indexed in the court, which is a few weeks after we submit signed papers. This way she cannot change her mind. 

The big issue is my oldest staying with me. If she knew now, she would want to go to court and fight. The simple story with that is it would cost me 50k to 60k in lawyer fees. 

The papers say she gets half if one child stays and zero if both stay. So once I give her notice that the oldest is staying once we are divorced then all she can do is spend her own money to fight me if she wants to have custody of both kids. She is getting 45k from me, but it is coming from one of my retirement accounts so its not money I would normally have access to. If she wants to use that money to fight me by all means its okay, I can afford 25k to fight for custody, much better then 50k. But the reality is my lawyer says it will be around 10k since it will be an argument over the already signed paperwork.

I know that the 45k has already been ear marked for bills she occurred moving in with the other man. I also think she will be getting a smaller car. So I believe that maybe 20 is already spent. That is going to be her life savings. It is the most she will EVER have.. 

End result she will be very hesitant to fight me that much knowing it will drain what little she has left.. Plus she could also loose custody my youngest. My belief is she will walk away licking her wounds and cry on the other man shoulder on how evil I am. The great thing is I won't have to deal with her anymore. She will be his problem..


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> How the fvck do I say this. I really like this women. She is a widow that takes care of her kids and her home.. Her home is 100 x nicer then mine.
> 
> I just really see what I was missing with my wife.
> 
> I am really starting to feel like my STBXW was a bad penny. Like an abused child thinks it is normal to hit people because that is how they were brought up..
> 
> I look at this women and see what she does with younger kids and my STBXW couldn't do sh1t..
> 
> 
> My STBXW now has completely fell into almost total neglect of the kids. All she does now is takes them to school and picks them up and drops them off at my home. She then leaves them to go to her apartment. She comes home around 8 or 9 PM.
> 
> NOW on Fridays she leaves and does not come home until Sunday at around 9 PM..
> 
> She used to ask the youngest if he wanted to go to the apartment with her, but as of recent has stopped asking him to come along.
> 
> My youngest broke down crying Saturday night. I went out. He knew I was going out. I tell him I am going out but that I will be home. I am not leaving him like his mother does.
> 
> My mother said at dinner, he just began crying. She got my brother to make him laugh and got him out of his funk. He said he missed his mother.
> 
> I spoke to my little guy Sunday about it. I told him if he was that sad, he should have called his mother or called me. I would have come home. The women I am seeing has kids and completely understands or would understand. I told her Sunday what I found out and she felt bad.
> 
> I tell you what I like about this women. Its retarded, but you will understand. She has to pay for a baby sitter to go out. So I took her out to dinner, cost me 120 dollars. Went to a bar afterwards, we were suppose to go to a comedy club but I failed to make reservations, I just didn't think I needed them. My bad. But when we were in the bar I went to the bathroom. She put down 25 dollars on the bar. I told her to take it back, of course she didn't. I put down another 40 on the bar by the end.
> 
> I think she paid the sitter 60 dollars, plus the 25. It cost her 85 dollars to go out with me that night. I honestly felt bad.. She is on a fixed income. But that she is paying to go out with me, makes a good impression on me.
> 
> She eventually came clean about her feelings about me over the last 2 weeks.
> 
> I can tell you my whole mindset has changed. What I thought was right, was wrong. What I thought was good, was bad. I had some shallow thoughts, until I met this women.
> 
> I got into a conversation with my mother, yes I still ask my 80 year old mother for advice. But she said something to me, that I was thinking.
> 
> The crux of what we discussed was a basically that her with 2 kids would understand my situation, much better then a single women in her early 40s. Granted I am not making a blanket statement, but she understands I need to spend time with my kids, though I want to see her and I understand she needs to do thing with her kids, though she wants to see me.
> 
> Where as a single women, because she has the free time might be a bit annoyed that I can't see her because I need to spend time with my kids. Further that a single women might not have the same feeling of being with kids like I do per say. So she might want to go away on vacation with me alone, where as I would want to bring my kids. Again not a blanket statement. Just bringing out a point of how my mother was more geared towards this women instead of someone maybe a bit younger and with no kids. Oddly my mother at one point said this woman's 2 girls ( twins ) deserved a father.
> 
> I am having another issue which I am going to start another thread on, but I will mention it hear for completeness. I have an issue with retarded ejaculation. Blessing and a curse I think.


She sounds like a great gal. I made my original statement about not breaking her heart for that very reason. I wasn't sure if you were just using her as some comfort pvssy and then discard her when you found something prettier. Sounds like this is completely NOT the case. Sounds like you may have struck gold. Just go slow and make sure.

And listen to your mama. I wish my mama was still around so I could ask advice.


----------



## Iver

Does your STBXW make enough to get by, even with the child support you will be paying her?

The reason I'm wondering about this is I expect that within six months to a year the 45K you gave her will be 100% gone. 

Once reality sets in (that being poor is no fun) the POSOM may be gone as well...

I'd consider discussing with your lawyer how this scenario would play out in court if she wanted to revisit your child payments/alimony - especially if she couldn't adequately take care of even one child on her own.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Iver said:


> Does your STBXW make enough to get by, even with the child support you will be paying her?
> 
> The reason I'm wondering about this is I expect that within six months to a year the 45K you gave her will be 100% gone.
> 
> Once reality sets in (that being poor is no fun) the POSOM may be gone as well...
> 
> I'd consider discussing with your lawyer how this scenario would play out in court if she wanted to revisit your child payments/alimony - especially if she couldn't adequately take care of even one child on her own.


Unfortunately for her since she made this decision out of court and under the advice of her own attorney she will be screwed. Further she obtained few more work hours so she is making more now then the last 19 years with me. Go figure after barely working 12 hours a week ( and I honestly do mean barely ), doing nothing but whatever she wanted. NOW at the age of 49 decided to work MORE. 

This will bite her on the A$$ as when she decides she wants an increase, her W2 will show more money. She can make the statement that she was living with someone and he left. All they will say is get another room mate. 

Fortunately for me she is extremely short sighted. She was playing checkers in this game of life and I was playing chess.

I have several things up my sleeve as the years go by. The great thing is I don't have to detour my life to exact my revenge. It will all be part of me just living my life. She might be in love with this other man and they might be happy for the rest of their lives. But she will be broke the rest of her life as well. 

Honestly though she might want to wish away 19 years but she can't. She might want to wish I was some Ogre and an abuse SOB, but she can't. I loved her and told her every day.. She knows in my eyes, she could do no wrong. She lost that. She might want to wish that this other man is better, but eventually reality will show her it really is all the same sh1t. That I wasn't perfect, neither was she and neither is this man. 

What she will realize is she gave up one set of problems for another. She will wish she didn't. She will wish that she should have been nicer leaving. She will wish that she should have tried to fix this and not made this into the mess it is. She will wish that she could have her family back. She will wish this other man was more understanding then I always was. She will wish that this other man would love her kids as much as I do.

Nothing more made me smile yesterday then to hear my youngest tell me that this other man, that was told he was going to take my kids to ball games and amusement parks has yet to even play catch with my youngest or even Xbox. Basically he has done nothing. Of course I understand completely because he doesn't have kids and doesn't understand or relate.. Which again is great. The STBXW will eventually notice this as well and say WTF did I do..


----------



## warlock07

You worry too much about her and how she will end up.


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> You worry too much about her and how she will end up.


I'm angry she wasted 19 years of my life.. 

I'm angry at myself for giving her 3 chances and then on the 4th time she kicked me to curb never looking back at what I gave to be with her.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/11/13 Thursday

I screwed up yesterday. I was feeling sad and the new woman in my life could hear it over the phone. I didn't want to put this issue on her and I tried to dodge the questions, but of course I picked these stupid words to use.. *"It's not you, its me"*

Well of course she thought I was cutting her loose. Nothing I could say at that time was going to fix it, plus having my own issues I just didn't want to deal with it. I am very fortunate to have a very smart friend that literally should be a MC or IC. He called me up today knowing what went on because his wife and this woman are friends and just played dumb and let me tell him what happen. 

He gave me some real sound advice. Oddly enough he told me don't break it off with her. Just slow down, your going too fast. 

I agree we were. 

Nonetheless He told me don't break it off your gonna regret it later. She is a perfect match for you and she is good looking as well. Your 2 broken toys that will work well together, but you need to slow down. 

We spoke and it seems my friends wife gave her the same speech. I melted when I seen her. I could see, she was happy to see me, but sad as if I was going to cut her loose. We talked and worked everything out. It was a good feeling.

On a side note, the STBXW called me miserable yesterday night. She was looking for her phone which I had my oldest put in the kitchen from my bedroom. She came looking for the phone and I told her it was in the kitchen but in a voice of disgust.

I find it ironic that she still doesn't understand that whatever I am right now with her, is because she made me this way. 

I guess she wants me to be all happy and cheery that it took her 19 years and 2 kids to find the love of her life. Maybe I should offer up my wedding rings incase they might fit the OM. Heck maybe I should be the best man at their wedding ( not that I know if they are getting married ).

They truly are insane. Its as if I am making too much of a big deal out of wasting 19 years of my life (which is almost half of my life atm) with her. 

I dreaded the day this divorce would be done. 
At one time I foolishly and insanely hoped that she might find remorse and want to come back.
Today I hate my lawyer more because he has been tied up in court the past 2 weeks, so I can't get into his office with him to get this done. 

Right now beyond sleeping on the couch its almost like she is having her cake and eating too. She drops off the kids and leaves. If I can't feed them or my mother can't they would starve, because my wife doesn't do anything for them. On the weekend I'm on my own because she is gone the whole weekend living her single life.

Right or Wrong, I let my kids know or remind them that she is NOT home and I am.. 

I can't wait for the divorce because then at least she will have to have them for at least every other weekend and she will have one with her at least a few days during the week. 

From crying and looking to die, to when is this divorce gonna be done. Go figure..


----------



## DaddyLongShanks

Hardtohandle said:


> I'm angry she wasted 19 years of my life..
> 
> I'm angry at myself for giving her 3 chances and then on the 4th time she kicked me to curb never looking back at what I gave to be with her.


Move on... Personal integrity within yourself. No looking back...

A sex partner whose a good friend whose not a risk to you or your life will help you along.

Figure out what you want your life to look like. 

A new woman will move back into it.


----------



## happyman64

H2H

Your friend is wise and gives you good counsel.

Time is on your side so take as much as you can.

And keep communicating with your new lady.

Because open, honest communication is key.

Hm64


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/13/13 Saturday ( morning, 4 AM ) Can't sleep..

My STBXW cousin called me Friday. We haven't spoken since this happen. 

It was a good call in the sense he pretty much said what my mother in law said. Basically my STBXW is not calling anyone and that everyone is upset with her. Which of course brings it back to why she isn't calling anyone. She isn't getting the words she wants to hear from her family.

The one thing I did find out is they were able to see his face because her brother is friends with him on facebook. I was a bit surprised by that. 

I'm surprised because he is pretty reserved guy. I felt ( wrongly ) that he would be like Sweden and just be neutral about this. I guess not.

Another thing, I just decided to ask my little guy if this O.M. was at the apartment when he went over. He said yes, which brings me to a possible conclusion that he doesn't work or not steady work. My only reason for this is does construction and he is home at 3 or 4 PM every time. Just knowing the business from my brothers and friends, I know its a real early to be home for that work, including the travel time to and from.

End result I can see why now she can't ask him for help, because he is as broke as her.


----------



## JCD

warlock07 said:


> You worry too much about her and how she will end up.


This isn't worry; it's gloating. Perfectly natural.


----------



## BjornFree

Hardtohandle said:


> Right now beyond sleeping on the couch its almost like she is having her cake and eating too. She drops off the kids and leaves. If I can't feed them or my mother can't they would starve, because my wife doesn't do anything for them. On the weekend I'm on my own because she is gone the whole weekend living her single life.
> 
> Right or Wrong, I let my kids know or remind them that she is NOT home and I am..


Are you recording the time when she picks them up and drops them at your place? You could push for sole custody. She is a dreadful mom, not wife or mother material at all. Its good that you haven't tied yourself down with this woman any further. Count your blessings and keep moving onward.


----------



## Hardtohandle

BjornFree said:


> Are you recording the time when she picks them up and drops them at your place? You could push for sole custody. She is a dreadful mom, not wife or mother material at all. Its good that you haven't tied yourself down with this woman any further. Count your blessings and keep moving onward.


Oddly enough I just had a reenforcement of some info I knew.. In my state the person who gets paid the highest salary or has the greater salary pays the lawyer fees. A friend of mine is going through these issues. End result he spent 5 hours in court as they decided who was going to pay his Ex wife lawyer fees. 

The judge clearly expressed he would not be paying all of the 7k in fees but regardless he would be paying a decent amount of it.

Which brings me back to the whole custody thing.

As I mentioned in previous threads my oldest will be staying with me. So once this divorce is indexed in court ( that takes a few days after signing the paper work ) and she cannot change her mind. I will give her notice that my oldest is staying with me. The divorce paper work clearly says that the kids can decide who they want to stay with and if one stays with me she will get HALF child support. 

She also will get 45k from me which is good in a odd sense because it is coming from a fund I could normally not touch except in rare circumstances and this is one of them. 

Which means if I have to fight for eventual custody after the divorce I will only have to fight for one child and I will have one child who will go into court and tell the judge he does not want to be with his mother. I would hope the judge will decide to keep the kids together and keep them with me seeing that one kid is already stating they want to. 

Since she has 45k in the bank she will be able to afford her own lawyer. Which is great because between some debt she wants to pay off and lawyer fees she could loose 20 to 25 in one fell swoop. 

The reality is since the OM that she has moved in with already has a questionable past, she will not want to go to court because she knows I will drag him into it. I will request a forensics to be done for them and me. Which means we will have lawyers review both house holds. She has this POS OM and I have my mother and brother who are here to help me out. End result I have better support then she does and a better home. Along with a child who is old enough to decide and is looking to stay with me. It also helps that my kids were born and raised in this home and my mother has helped raise our kids from day one and she still is.

The cards are just too stacked against her right now and she has nothing on me. She is not one for confrontation. As you can see she is avoiding her family.

On a sad note. 
My mother in law said she had a mammogram and it didn't come out good. She goes back in 2 weeks for another test. My STBXW still has not called her since Easter. Honestly I hope my wife never calls her so she can find out when I tell her I am bringing the kids to Florida for the weekend to visit her sick mother. First off I will be telling her the night before I go so she will have no time to do anything unless she buys a plane ticket with cash as she has no credit cards is has been denied credit. Further since we are still married I don't have to do anything legally with any sort of notifications beyond the simple notification of I'm taking the kids to Florida tomorrow. 
Further my mother in law told me her husband has refused to answer the phone anymore. He is so torn up about his daughter and what she did, he is afraid to answer the phone and find out it is her on the other end. He just doesn't know how to handle this.

Its a sad game we play now, but anything to ruin her life as I go along and live mine is a great to me. Yes I am a vindictive A$$hole.


----------



## warlock07

Maybe it is a good time to get a background check on the OM?


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> Maybe it is a good time to get a background check on the OM?


I did already, but it will not matter as the courts will do it officially if it goes that route. They will want a neutral party to obtain the reports.

But regardless I can't fight for custody until after the the divorce and I have to make completely sure that the youngest wants to come with me otherwise I will be fighting a loosing battle. 

If I fought now before the divorce, since we already agreed on 45k, I could end up giving her 45k and on top may 25k for her lawyer. The other way around I might have to pay something for her lawyer or the judge might deem she has the money to pay for her own lawyer out of the 45k. 

I have another trick up my sleeve that will require 4 years or so to accomplish. Straight and simple, eventually I will be moving from the state I currently live in and move to a more retirement friendly state, EG Florida or Texas. Financially I will be well off. I will be able to build a large home and have someone come in once or twice a week to clean. End result I will have my oldest become emancipated assuming my medical still will cover him, I think today medical is covered until 26 for children. My job offers medical for life. 

The gamble will be my youngest will be 13 years old. He will have a choice to come with me and I will do what is legally necessary. Again he will be old enough to make his own choice. Or if he decides he not too sure. He can visit in the summer time or on a weekend and I would hope that seeing the home will convince him enough that his life will be better there. Hopefully by then I can maybe basically buy him from my wife. I would offer her 20k to let him go. Of course I would eventually bring her to court to pay child support if possible. Yet another FU to her.


----------



## happyman64

H2H

You are not vindictive at all.

Keep protecting your kids as best you can.

It will worth it in the long run.

HM64

PS
Sorry to hear about your MIL. Mine had breast cancer 3 years ago. A single massectomy and heavy chemo/radiation saved her life.

She is cancer free since then.

Your family is in my prayers.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/15/13 Monday

It seems my wife Officially has decided not to come home at all until monday to get the kids ready for school at 7AM. I called my mother this morning to see what time she came in. Mom says she didn't get there until 7:15. Go figure, she can't even be on time for her own kids and this is the first time. It's like being late for your first day at work.

I've seen this coming and I am not phased in the bit. I hope this is her norm now. At least I know that they are with me 100% of the time and I am taking care of them 100% of the time. She can just playing Taxi and take them too and from school. 

The great thing about these situations are, if my oldest ever wavered in staying or going. These thing solidify him wanting to stay. Heck I think even my youngest is going to be in that boat eventually..

If someone told me 19 years ago about this I would have never believed it. If they told me this after each kid was born I would have never believed it. My wife was so caring if anything. I wish I could reverse the spell this demon has put my wife under and took her away..

Saturday night it was a slumber party in my bed. I had both kids and the dog in my bed.. Thank goodness it was a king size bed or I would be on the floor. Though that might not have been a bad idea honestly.

Added note about the mother in law.. She asked me where the kids were. I told her they were with me. She said *"I know she is my daughter and I hate to say this, but I'm glad they are with you and not her right now. Who knows what is wrong with her right now. I feel safe knowing the kids are with you and that you will take care of them"* 

BTW it was my mom's idea to bring the kids to visit them in Florida. I might do Weekend thing, Friday to Monday. Maybe get a hotel outside disney or a time share from someone and my in laws meet me there. Otherwise its a bit boring where the in laws live. This way the kids have fun and get to be with the in laws as well. We can leave early Friday or even Thursday night and be there in 2 hours.


----------



## Iver

I've heard the Harry Potter theme park is a great time - if possible try to get a visit in...

If you are considering a move to Florida in a couple of years you may consider getting your kids interested in Scuba Diving now and get some dive trips into the Florida Keys. Once they get a taste for it wild horses won't keep them away if you do end up living there.


----------



## Iver

I want to ask what are you doing for yourself? Are there any hobbies or activities that you are doing to keep you occupied?

I've been doing Krav Maga (great exercise) as well as Escrima which I really enjoy - it's a great way to keep your mind focused on something you enjoy doing rather than dwelling on all the unpleasantness you are in the middle of.

Even joining a bowling league or taking up something like salsa dancing could really make a difference in how you feel (ok, maybe not bowling...)


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/16/13 Tues.

I think she officially has moved out. It seems her M.O. ( Modus Operandi ) is going to be she will come back to my home at 7AM to pick up the kids and then Drop them off after school at 230 PM. 

Oddly enough my oldest told me that my STBXW told my youngest yesterday if he wanted to go to her apartment. He said no. She replied well if you don't want to go today ( monday ) you have to go tomorrow ( meaning today ). Well today came and went and she didn't even ask him, which is good for me. Tomorrow she works late so he won't be with her either. 

Another odd thing is I've been getting several calls and text from her family and relatives all saying she is ignoring all calls. Another good thing for me. 

What I learned from this, don't be in such a rush to get divorced so fast because things can turn around. I don't think things would have went this way if she would have signed in January and we were done back then. 

I honestly feel that my youngest might end up looking to stay as well. I think after a week he will be looking to come back home. 

I would freak out, jumping for joy. The humiliation of her loosing both kids is just too great.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/19/13 Friday

My wife is kunt.. As usual she just wants to fight. 

The women I was seeing just cut me loose after having a real heart to heart conversation and having sex. It was totally strange. We spend time talking about taking it slow and such and then BAM. I guess this is taking it slow or stop or reverse.. Who the fvck knows..

I'm fvcking done with women for the near foreseeable future. Its just too much for me to deal with right now.

Its retarded.. 

Honest, loyal man with decent job, pension, a home and decent money and I can't find just someone who I can love and that can love me back.. I'm not talking about this relationship, I'm just talking about my life in general. 

Am I perfect ? Absolutely not.. But I go to work and come home. I NEVER, NEVER fvcking cheated on anyone I have EVER been with. NEVER, EVER... I only drink socially, so no booze in the house. I go out with the wife and kids.. NEVER, EVER put my hands on my wife or any women except in the line of duty.. I told my wife everyday I loved her.. 

GD I'm pissed at this sh1t.


----------



## Jasel

Ya it is probably a good idea to take a break from women for awhile. Just focus on yourself and your kids.


----------



## sandc

Go out and do something manly. Deep sea fishing. Hiking mountain trails. Learn to fly. Something. Things you could take your boys with you. Would probably do them good to see their dad happy and doing positive constructive things. You could also try meetup.com. People with similar interests getting together and doing fun stuff. Not dating.


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## Hardtohandle

sandc said:


> Go out and do something manly. Deep sea fishing. Hiking mountain trails. Learn to fly. Something. Things you could take your boys with you. Would probably do them good to see their dad happy and doing positive constructive things. You could also try meetup.com. People with similar interests getting together and doing fun stuff. Not dating.


I'm trying to figure it out. Right now I have the kids 7 days a week. My STBXW idea of seeing them is taking the youngest over night once every 3 weeks.. Like she tried to do yesterday. Unfortunately for her we are not divorced yet and has no legal right to take the kids over night out of their primary residence. 

What pisses me off is the OM has things to say about the kids.. As much as I want to curb stomp him, I know I can't. I will loose that fight big time with my job.. End result I sit in my car like a b1tch when I went to pick up my son as he brought him outside..

Just dealing with them 7 days a week and with my 80 year old mom help is hard enough right now.


----------



## sandc

Your 80 year old mom would be an issue (my 80 yo MIL lives with us). But there's got to be stuff you can do with your boys. Don't let too much time pass.


----------



## warlock07

> as he brought him outside


The OM brought your kids outside?


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## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> The OM brought your kids outside?


Yea. He kissed my son good bye. I wanted to crush him.. My son got in the car and he waved good bye to my son. My son started waving, I know I was wrong but I told him don't wave to that A$$h0le. 

Being a cop once the captain comes, they won't give a rats a$$ what happen. They will modify me on the spot, even if I was defending myself. Their thought process is even if I was defending myself, they are saving me from myself and saving him from possibly me shooting him one day. 

If I was wrong and started it well its pretty much the same thing. They are saving me from myself and him too...

I'm trying do things. I'm just working almost 12 hours a day 5 days a week and then I need to clean up the dirt in this house that my wife literally has not cleaned up for the past 14 years. Yes I am to blame for that as well as I turned a blind eye to it. Love makes you do stupid things..

Nonetheless I am literally on my hands and knees with a small steam cleaner to clean the grout between the kitchen tiles.. Even though I am getting new floors eventually I just need it clean.

I found my wedding album, my mom was with me. She kept telling me not to look at it. I had to and yes it was crushing.. I gave it to my brother to throw out as I couldn't, though I know this will never be fixed or together again..


----------



## walkonmars

H2H
Off topic for a sec. 
Since I've been watching the horror in Boston for the last couple of days, I just wanted to say thank you for putting your life on the line every day for the citizens of your community. 

You're a good and decent man. Take care of yourself.


----------



## Openminded

Take a break from women. Relationships, even casual ones, are too much of a complication right away.


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## warlock07

How the hell is she bringing the OM around the kids ? Don't you have it in the divorce agreement ?


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## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> How the hell is she bringing the OM around the kids ? Don't you have it in the divorce agreement ?


Warlock, first off they moved in together before we had papers drawn up. I would say it was about 2 to 3 weeks after I first went to a lawyer.

But there is no way legally that I can tell my wife who she can and cannot bring my kids around. At least not in my big city.. I would need some sort of proof that this other person is a danger to my children. At this time I have nothing. Again big city here they just won't entertain things smaller towns will. 

Here is the game she will or can play. I didn't move in with him he just comes by after work. He only stays a few nights out of the week. 

OR

I end up doing surveillance and I catch him on video living there for a week straight.. 

Oh he had work on his apartment he needed a place to stay for the week. 

These are all games and things I just cannot fight or wish to fight. As I said in the past I need to get off this crazy train. Let her live this retarded, crazy life..

Everyday that goes by my oldest gets to see his mothers true colors. He is with me and not going with her.. That is 700 dollars out of her pocket.. 

My youngest misses his mother, but he doesn't miss her that much that he needs to see her every day. He is sated seeing her 1 or 2 days out of the week and its only for a few hours. So if she was with him from 3 to 7 twice a week he would be fine the rest of the week.

Currently beyond the past Thursday, the last time she was with him for any extended period of time was about 3 weeks before that. Beyond that they only see her when she comes to pick them up for school and then drops them back off at my home, all her choice. She can be with them both for 3 hours each day before I get home and then she could leave, but she decides not to. Again her choice.

So my point is my youngest will eventually miss me, his brother, his uncle, his grandmother and his dog much more then his mother. 

Her work schedule will force her to bring him over to my home. She cannot arbitrarily let this OM take care of my son. My mother and brother Trump him, EVEN IF HE WANTED TO WATCH MY SON. 

I fvcked up trying to save this, but now I am in this to win the war not the little battles.

Over the next few months she will see even more how horribly wrong this has gone for her. Summer time they will be with me just about every day. 

My STBXW is extremely short sighted if you didn't figure this out yet. This is why this will all fail for her. 

OR 

She will accept it and give up the kids and understand her place in their life will be limited because that is what she wanted.

Once the youngest is with me she will not get a dime from me. Then after 3 or 4 months I will take her to court to get support from her. Even if it is 25 dollars a month I will take it, anything to remind her of how she fvcked up..


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> H2H
> Off topic for a sec.
> Since I've been watching the horror in Boston for the last couple of days, I just wanted to say thank you for putting your life on the line every day for the citizens of your community.
> 
> You're a good and decent man. Take care of yourself.


Thanks WoM

Of course we got an influx of terrorism cases coming in because of this. Only 4 of us ATM so we are getting CRUSHED. But not much we can do about it.. They need to get more people trained to do this and it takes about 2 years to really learn it. We have been telling them for several years but they just don't care and drag their feet on getting us more people..


----------



## Hardtohandle

Silly side note.

My STBXW is so angry with me that she makes mocking noises at me when we talk. Like she is mimicking my voice but in a very childish way. It is extremely annoying but amazing how childish and little respect she has for me. 

It makes me feel very sad that this just keeps getting worse relationship wise.. I just don't ever see her turning back around to be civil with me.. Sadly it will probably take some serious moment in one of the kids lives for her to change her tune.. Which to be honest I hope it never has to come to that.. I would rather she be pissed the rest of her life, then anything happen to my kids.

It is also weird how her family is rallying around me. I have to say I almost don't trust it. But they do seem sincere via the FB chats I have been getting. 

I of course don't say anything bad about her and only express my sadness of loosing her and what it has done to the kids..

I get mad that I left for work at 540 AM and then got home for 730 PM and then started to clean the fridge until 930 PM because it was dirty and disgusting.. Again another thing my wife never cleaned in years.. Again I take blame for turning a blind eye to it.

But my mom was with me and she could see and hear I was getting mad. In my mind I imagine her sitting on the couch with the OM in their apartment screwing around and acting like childless young couple while my kids are here with me 7 days a week and I am cleaning a fridge after a 14 hour day of working and what not.

But my mother keeps telling me, no matter how much I think she is having fun and screwing around with this guy. She is not happy. Its not all fun and games for her. That she has her own demons to deal with even if she is not showing this OM.. That eventually all this will catch up to her and she will not be able to hide it or cover up her emotions any more to this OM. 

She tells me of my dad in the later years how he missed our family. How people would tell her he would cry over her and us. My mother seen my father right before he died by coincidence. She tells me he would carry around a picture of us with him. When he seen her ( my mom ) he began to cry and wanted to come home. He was a bit senile near the end she tells me. 

I do want to live my life but I can't help but admit that I want to crush her life as well. I want to hurt her one way and then devise another way of hurting her. 

I want to take her kids away from her. I want to take any money away from her. I want her to be living in some sh1t hole apartment in some ghetto building complex, worried for her life.

As you can guess I'm a bit angry. What I honestly need is a women who understands and can look me in the face and just tell me everything is gonna be alright and to let go.. I need someone to be my island in this sea of chaos.. Someone that I will look at and just by looking will make me let go of my Ex.. 

I have to say that is what my Ex did for me with my first wife.. It really was like, why do I need to worry about my EX when I have this women by my side.. Sadly it seems I went from the frying pan into the fire with this one..

I'm a bit tired gonna get off. But I will post some odd things I notice on dating websites tomorrow.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> As you can guess I'm a bit angry. What I honestly need is a women who understands and can look me in the face and just tell me everything is gonna be alright and to let go.. I need someone to be my island in this sea of chaos.. Someone that I will look at and just by looking will make me let go of my Ex..
> 
> I have to say that is what my Ex did for me with my first wife.. It really was like, why do I need to worry about my EX when I have this women by my side.. Sadly it seems I went from the frying pan into the fire with this one..


So have you learned anything from this realization?

Using someone else who has their own thoughts and feelings and hurts to make yourself feel better ain't right. No one can make you feel better, only you can do that by healing over time. Otherwise you'll just repeat the same cycle.


----------



## Hardtohandle

sandc said:


> So have you learned anything from this realization?
> 
> Using someone else who has their own thoughts and feelings and hurts to make yourself feel better ain't right. No one can make you feel better, only you can do that by healing over time. Otherwise you'll just repeat the same cycle.


I do agree. 

Being with someone is a real crutch to me I am noticing. I am having an issue being my own man and being comfortable with myself. I feel like I am going to wake up tomorrow be 80 years old and be alone. Its retarded..

I tell you. I was talking to a friend about my kids. I was just going on how me and the wife had so many plans, where the kids were going to go to school. What I was going to do when I retired. Where would we move to. ETC..

It seems now that all of that is gone and my life is up in the air. 

My friends tells me, I know what your saying and I feel for you. I honestly do.. But right now both kids are not going to be changing schools for another year.. So you don't to worry about this stuff until June of 2014 for the oldest. The youngest will still be going to the same school. 

Yes your wife is gone and I understand its a big blow to you. We all knew her and never expected this to turn out for you this way. We never expected her to do these things to you or the kids. But for right now your life isn't changing that drastically that you need to worry about all these things.. Just worry about today.. Take care of the things you want to do today.. Don't go nuts about things a year from now.. You can worry about that eventually when your more normal..

I'm an over thinker, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I am too dependent on being with someone. I need to learn to be my own man and do my own things. But I get lonely, I miss that conversations with the wife the hugging and holding.. The kissing. The affection. The laughing. 

The more I move on, the more I look back on how crazy and fast this went. I know my wife says she feel out of love the beginning of 2012. But its just crazy how it took 90 days ( july to sept ) to know she was going to cut me loose and move in with this OM.. How in 90 days she looked back at 19 years and decided it wasn't worth it. 

It kills me, makes me sad and it makes me fvcking angry.. It's like I want to live my life showing her what a mistake she made.. 

I know that I will never be at peace until I let her go and wish her well. But right now I want her to feel some of my daily and constant pain. I want to see it in her. I want her to say why are you doing this to me. I want to tell her for the same fvcking reason you had to have a contact picture on your phone of you and him during your affair that you would use to rub in my face when he would call several times a day while I was home. For no apparent reason but to hurt me. That is why I am doing this to you. To fvcking hurt you.. To crush you... To let you know the fvcking piece of **** human being you are, but didn't have to be..

Who knows I must be in the very angry stage right now. Maybe its a phase or just the roller coaster emotions. I do have less ups and downs. They just might be they are a bit deeper or higher and longer. 

I think once we are divorced and she is forced into a routine, then I can relax knowing she just isn't going to pop by and do what she wants, when she wants with the kids. She will start having to ask me.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> I feel like I am going to wake up tomorrow be 80 years old and be alone. Its retarded..


I agree. That's retarded.




Hardtohandle said:


> I'm an over thinker, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I am too dependent on being with someone. I need to learn to be my own man and do my own things. But I get lonely, I miss that conversations with the wife the hugging and holding.. The kissing. The affection. The laughing.


Which is why you won't wake up old and lonely. 



Hardtohandle said:


> It kills me, makes me sad and it makes me fvcking angry.. It's like I want to live my life showing her what a mistake she made..


That is one wish that will come true. But for that to happen, you have to be fully moved on by the time she comes to her senses. And she will. I estimate it will be within 2 years.



Hardtohandle said:


> I know that I will never be at peace until I let her go and wish her well.


Let's not go crazy here.



Hardtohandle said:


> But right now I want her to feel some of my daily and constant pain. I want to see it in her. I want her to say why are you doing this to me. I want to tell her for the same fvcking reason you had to have a contact picture on your phone of you and him during your affair that you would use to rub in my face when he would call several times a day while I was home. For no apparent reason but to hurt me. That is why I am doing this to you. To fvcking hurt you.. To crush you... To let you know the fvcking piece of **** human being you are, but didn't have to be..


You think this is about you. It ain't. It's about her. Always was about her. Her selfish desires and her lack of empathy. You're an investigator so you like to find logical rational reasons for things. As an investigator you must know that sometimes there is no logical rational reason. Sometimes it just boils down to a person saying "I want what I want when I want it." Pure selfishness and lack caring about anyone but themselves.

Sometimes your a victim of a crime because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sometimes you can help it because the criminal has targeted you and there is nothing you can do to avoid what's coming. You're the wrong place, wrong time victim (married a person who was a trainwreck waiting for the train) AND the targeted victim (nothing you could have done to avoid it.) She was going to do whatever she wanted to do. It was just a matter of time. Sad that it didn't happen sooner but then you wouldn't have your boys.



Hardtohandle said:


> Who knows I must be in the very angry stage right now. Maybe its a phase or just the roller coaster emotions. I do have less ups and downs. They just might be they are a bit deeper or higher and longer.


You think? 



Hardtohandle said:


> I think once we are divorced and she is forced into a routine, then I can relax knowing she just isn't going to pop by and do what she wants, when she wants with the kids. She will start having to ask me.


That's definitely one thing that will make you feel better. To be in control of your life. Once she sees you in control of yourself, your life, your destiny, trust me, she won't be happy.


----------



## BobSimmons

Hardtohandle said:


> But right now I want her to feel some of my daily and constant pain. I want to see it in her. I want her to say why are you doing this to me. I want to tell her for the same fvcking reason you had to have a contact picture on your phone of you and him during your affair that you would use to rub in my face when he would call several times a day while I was home.


It's hard to turn off emotions, heck even to regulate them, especially love. It makes us do things without reason, even against those that hurt us dearly.

You will always have the moral high ground. Forever. She can never take that away from you. Even if she brings OM to your house and flaunts him in front of you, it's not because she's happy, it's because she can never cede your high ground, since it's always been about her, it will remain about her...even when you move on, she will feel a twinge of regret because she will never be morally happy in her life..this will always weigh on her mind..somewhere.

It's a damn cliche. The best way to make her feel your pain, is to be happy again. Stop making it about her, and start making it about you. Start to live your life how you want to live it. It will hurt her when you don't even notice she's there, when her actions bear no consequence on your life. The she'll move on and act up somewhere else.


----------



## sandc

BobSimmons said:


> It's hard to turn off emotions, heck even to regulate them, especially love. It makes us do things without reason, even against those that hurt us dearly.
> 
> You will always have the moral high ground. Forever. She can never take that away from you. Even if she brings OM to your house and flaunts him in front of you, it's not because she's happy, it's because she can never cede your high ground, since it's always been about her, it will remain about her...even when you move on, she will feel a twinge of regret because she will never be morally happy in her life..this will always weigh on her mind..somewhere.
> 
> It's a damn cliche. The best way to make her feel your pain, is to be happy again. Stop making it about her, and start making it about you. Start to live your life how you want to live it. It will hurt her when you don't even notice she's there, when her actions bear no consequence on your life. The she'll move on and act up somewhere else.


:iagree: ahyup.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Thanks a lot, from the bottom of my heart.. 

I don't know. I keep tossing around this idea of sending her an email. Nothing to do with I love you and want you back. More of a this is how I feel and how you made me feel. I understand your feeling your own pain but unlike you I was and am able to show you how you hurt me. 

Tell her I'm tired of this. I'm tired of the fighting, but that I will keep fighting if she continues with her sh1t. That we need to find some sort of happy place for our kids. It doesn't have to be friendly but there has to be some sort of communication about the kids.

But then part me feels like I should let her come to me, if she ever does. That I shouldn't be looking to fix this in any way. 

I want to say it's being the better man but she has done nothing to extend the olive branch and I think she should. I want to say she is too suborn to do so, but I think its more stupidity and just being so fvcked up that she has not clue or care what to do. I compare this to her cutting off her family and relatives for the sake of not wanting to hear them. Again retarded but that is what she does. She runs away. 

Until there is no place to run anymore I guess.


----------



## Row Jimmy

I think you need to spend some time on your own working thru the grief and anger and learn to be okay with being alone for awhile. 

There is no rush to hook up with another relationship right away and for your own sanity, the best gift to yourself would be to just let her go.

Like the above poster said... This isn't about you. It's about her. She's broken, she's gone and she ain't coming back. 

Be cordial and polite as much as you can when forced to deal with her and POSOM and don't poke the hornets nest as there is no gain for your family in doing that. Emails would likely be the safest communication for stuff about the kids.

In time, things will cool down to the point where you can think about her and POSOM and not want to crush his bones into dust. 

But until that happens it's best you work on YOU and simply enjoy being the best father you can be to your children as this drama and betrayal isn't easy on them either!

I found talking to an IC helped me understand myself alot more as did reading all these many stories and listening to the wisdom, kindness and compassion coming from the folks at TAM. 

Hang in there and be patient. It's gonna work out just fine for you.


----------



## Blue Firefly

Hardtohandle said:


> I keep tossing around this idea of sending her an email. Nothing to do with I love you and want you back. More of a this is how I feel and how you made me feel. I understand your feeling your own pain but unlike you I was and am able to show you how you hurt me.


And, let her know that *she is important*. Why would you want to do something to build up her ego, because that is the only thing you will accomplish?

She won't feel sorry. She won't say to herself "Oh my God, what an evil person I am for hurting this man." What she will say to herself is "after all I have done, he is still emotionally tied up in me; I must be a really wonderful and desirable person; I'm special." 

You cannot control another person's feelings or how they think. You can't force them to be sorry for what they have done. Your recovery cannot depend on anything she does. If you ever want to put this behind you, you'll have to come to grips with the fact that it doesn't matter what she thinks; it doesn't matter is she is sorry, proud, or something in between. The only thing that matters is what you think.

Quit trying to fix her.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks a lot, from the bottom of my heart..
> 
> I don't know. I keep tossing around this idea of sending her an email. Nothing to do with I love you and want you back. More of a this is how I feel and how you made me feel. I understand your feeling your own pain but unlike you I was and am able to show you how you hurt me.
> 
> Tell her I'm tired of this. I'm tired of the fighting, but that I will keep fighting if she continues with her sh1t. That we need to find some sort of happy place for our kids. It doesn't have to be friendly but there has to be some sort of communication about the kids.
> 
> But then part me feels like I should let her come to me, if she ever does. That I shouldn't be looking to fix this in any way.
> 
> I want to say it's being the better man but she has done nothing to extend the olive branch and I think she should. I want to say she is too suborn to do so, but I think its more stupidity and just being so fvcked up that she has not clue or care what to do. I compare this to her cutting off her family and relatives for the sake of not wanting to hear them. Again retarded but that is what she does. She runs away.
> 
> Until there is no place to run anymore I guess.



Write the email but DO NOT send it. Hang onto it for one week. If you still feel like sending after one week, hang onto it for one month after that. 

Sending anything to her is just making her feel like she has power over two men. She has power over OM, don't let her have power over you any longer. Really, really try to go dark on her when at all possible. No idle chit chat. No recriminations. All business. You still love her. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Apathy is what we're going for here.


----------



## JCD

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks a lot, from the bottom of my heart..
> 
> I don't know. I keep tossing around this idea of sending her an email. Nothing to do with I love you and want you back. More of a this is how I feel and how you made me feel. I understand your feeling your own pain but unlike you I was and am able to show you how you hurt me.
> 
> Tell her I'm tired of this. I'm tired of the fighting, but that I will keep fighting if she continues with her sh1t. That we need to find some sort of happy place for our kids. It doesn't have to be friendly but there has to be some sort of communication about the kids.
> 
> But then part me feels like I should let her come to me, if she ever does. That I shouldn't be looking to fix this in any way.
> 
> I want to say it's being the better man but she has done nothing to extend the olive branch and I think she should. I want to say she is too suborn to do so, but I think its more stupidity and just being so fvcked up that she has not clue or care what to do. I compare this to her cutting off her family and relatives for the sake of not wanting to hear them. Again retarded but that is what she does. She runs away.
> 
> Until there is no place to run anymore I guess.


No. None of this. Not one sentence.

What part of the 180 don't you understand?

She is gone. Period. Even if she came crawling back, you shouldn't take her. She is not a good role model for the kids and she will pull this stuff with you again. Not so much the infidelity, but the blaming, the being immature, the neglecting the kids.

Once free of the wedding vows and parental oversight (you, your mom, your cousin) she is showing her true self.

So do not reveal that her actions can still affect you that greatly. Don't. It's weak. It's needy

Take down all the pictures of her down in your house. Clean out whatever things remind you of her and get rid of them.

Please please please watch this movie.


----------



## Openminded

Absolutely *no *email to her. You're done. Move on.


----------



## sandc

We're here for you to write anything you want, don't write to her. If you do, we're going to pass this around the room and take turns using it on you.










The 2x4 of brotherly love.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/26/13 Friday

I didn't write anything to her. 

Wed she was working but still took my son to her apartment. She left him with that POSM. I found out and called her to ask her where she was. She of course replied at work. I asked her where the fvck is my son ??!!.. 

She said with the POSM and some nieces and nephews playing around. 

I told her I don't give a fvck what kids are there. You don't leave my kid alone with some stranger.. 

She went on to tell me that she would respect my judgement and trusted me. She was all nice and polite.. She knew, she fvcked up and I had her.. 

I told her thats great but I don't trust her judgement and that I am going to get my kid and she better not leave my kid unattended ever again.. She is to be with him 100% of the time or to leave him in his house with my mother, brother, his older brother where I know he is SAFE.... 

She didn't even argue because she knew.. 

I've come to realize that it took my wife 90 days ( July to Sept ) to make a decision on our 19 year relationship and mind you in those 90 days they barely were together.. Amazing how people think and react. 

I went on a school trip and corrected yet 2 other people who heard from my STBXW that we were having "problems". They were not happy and one of them was smart enough to know that the STBXW was embarrassed to tell the truth because it would make her look bad. It is obvious but still I like when people figure out the truth for themselves. I made sure the teacher heard as well so she could spread the gossip. 

I enjoy letting people know what a piece of garbage the STBXW is.

Monday I go to the lawyer to drop off a check for court fees, so at least the ball is starting to roll on this whole ordeal.

I am close to getting some order in my life and to get eventually my youngest son back with me. I am really starting to feel she won't even fight the youngest wanting to come back with me. 

Its all about the Benjamin's with her it seems. Which is great.


----------



## warlock07

You need to get some serious second opinion on the custody thing and taking the kids around the OM. How the hell is she leaving your kid with OM and strangers ? This is minimum common sense. Don't let the OM into your kids lives(atleast until he is long term guy ). The other day you posted that he was dropping off your kid, kissing him while sending him off. And when they had the affair, they had it right in your face. He was calling your house, she had his picture of them together on her phone while still living with you.

You have all this pent up rage, yet you do nothing about it.


----------



## BobSimmons

warlock07 said:


> You need to get some serious second opinion on the custody thing and taking the kids around the OM. How the hell is she leaving your kid with OM and strangers ? This is minimum common sense. Don't let the OM into your kids lives(atleast until he is long term guy ). The other day you posted that he was dropping off your kid, kissing him while sending him off. And when they had the affair, they had it right in your face. He was calling your house, she had his picture of them together on her phone while still living with you.
> 
> You have all this pent up rage, yet you do nothing about it.


Little tiny steps, he's taking them. People deal with things in their own way..most crucially he is starting to realize just how little respect she shows him, I think he could handle if it was just him but now it's spilled over to the kid and he's not having it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

warlock07 said:


> You need to get some serious second opinion on the custody thing and taking the kids around the OM. How the hell is she leaving your kid with OM and strangers ? This is minimum common sense. Don't let the OM into your kids lives(atleast until he is long term guy ). The other day you posted that he was dropping off your kid, kissing him while sending him off. And when they had the affair, they had it right in your face. He was calling your house, she had his picture of them together on her phone while still living with you.
> 
> You have all this pent up rage, yet you do nothing about it.


Unfortunately my job has a hotline, its called 911.. 
Hello, My exhusband a cop just threaten my life.. 

I cannot win against those accusations. There is nothing I can do about them. 

I have to keep most of my conversations to text, because any verbal conversation has a chance of ruining me. 

She does not speak to me, she does not respond to my text. 

As an example I told her you have mail at the house when you come back with the youngest have him get it for you before you leave. She could have text me back okay np, thanks. But instead just came and got the mail. 

I can only show my kids that being with me will be better. My oldest sees this. My youngest will take some time. If I knew what to do I would do it. If someone has an idea I would listen and implement it. I just don't have much I can do with this.


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/29/13 Monday

You know I have come to realize that it took my wife less then 90 days to give up this relationship..

She met him in July and by Sept he was here and she was leaving me for him. So the reality is she made her decision some time back between July and Sept. So it could have been 30, 40, 50, 60 days. 

So whatever that time frame was, that is what it took to decide to leave our 19 year relationship..

Yes it kills me. 

I just don't get it honestly. I have friends that can't rub 2 dimes together to make a nickel, have had their own affair issues and whatever else and me and my wife had the world by the balls. 

We weren't rich but we weren't broke either. I know money has nothing to do with a relationship, but my point is money wasn't a factor. which I know is a very big issue with relationships. There was no abuse of any sort. 

I am really left with no real answers. Just her walking out the door. Thats it, no more. 

19 fvcking years.. Oh well sorry to be you.. Hope the next 19 years turns out better for you.. Thats how I feel.

I need some steady therapy I think. 

Dating is tough also. 

You don't want to introduce someone into your kids lives but you want to be able to spend sometime with someone as well to foster a relationship. 

I'm pretty much relegated to either Friday or Saturday night. Once a week isn't much.

Yet something else I can blame on the STBXW... Fvcking up my life in another way. 

I am fvcking angry at her.. Though I love her. I'm so torn or in pain that she did this the way she did. I would have forgiven the affair. I was forgiving her for the affair. But this sh1t is just so unforgivable. Part of me laughs about this because I act like she is looking to be forgiven, which she is not. YET...

I feel good enough to be able to admit my feelings, but understand that I cannot act on them. 

I reflect back on what someone said at the beginning of my thread. Basically they said by the time she wants to come back, you will have moved on and not want her back. Truer words have never been said. 

I will loose my wife twice, once now and yet again when I tell her no..


----------



## happyman64

H2H

This really did happen to you very quickly.

Realize that some part of your wife has lost her mind. There is really no other way to understand or comprehend her actions.

And you feel the way you do about dating because you are family oriented. You care for your kids.

You care how someone new will interact with your family. That is understandable.

I am glad you recognize this and though it hurts you will be better off.

And better off without her. Because the woman you love is gone.


----------



## Hurt Odyssey_DK HL

Hey H2H,
Muster up as much strength as you can and begin to think about you. I know it is hard but put your energy into refocusing on you not her. She has made her choice (a very bad one) just like my WS has done. Mine is still in the fog and I too think that by the time she wakes up and realizes her mistake and possibly want me back it will be too late. You gave me a bit of sound advice that I was rereading from February today. I have dragged my feet but I think it is time to turn up the heat on her and expose this PA and POSOM. She has not seen him since beg of Apr but I know she is still in contact with the dirtbag. Today she asked to meet for lunch . It turns out that Daddy Warbucks has decided to cut her off. So she is asking me for the money. Hmm...should I roll out my list of demands? Sorry H2H for being all over the place on your thread. I read your last post and wanted to mention that I can totally understand what you are experiencing because I am right there with you. It is important to begin to let go and understand you deserve to be treated much better. Try to find activities to get your mind off it. Go to gym, find new hobbies, hang out with friends, make new ones.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> I just don't get it honestly. I have friends that can't rub 2 dimes together to make a nickel, have had their own affair issues and whatever else and me and my wife had the world by the balls.
> 
> We weren't rich but we weren't broke either. I know money has nothing to do with a relationship, but my point is money wasn't a factor. which I know is a very big issue with relationships. There was no abuse of any sort.


The main takeaway from this is, it wasn't about you. Realize it.



Hardtohandle said:


> I am really left with no real answers. Just her walking out the door. Thats it, no more.
> .
> .
> .
> I am fvcking angry at her.. Though I love her. I'm so torn or in pain that she did this the way she did. I would have forgiven the affair. I was forgiving her for the affair. But this sh1t is just so unforgivable. Part of me laughs about this because I act like she is looking to be forgiven, which she is not. YET...
> 
> I feel good enough to be able to admit my feelings, but understand that I cannot act on them.


You're angry because you still love her. You strike me as a very logical person. If you are then it's natural you would want answers. The problem is that the human heart (by that I mean our emotional center) is deceptive by nature. It lies to us all the time. That's why we have brains, to help balance things out. Her heart is lying to her. She had absolutely no logical reason to do what she did. She will realize that at some point. 



Hardtohandle said:


> I reflect back on what someone said at the beginning of my thread. Basically they said by the time she wants to come back, you will have moved on and not want her back. Truer words have never been said.


Wise man whoever said that.



Hardtohandle said:


> I will loose my wife twice, once now and yet again when I tell her no..


I don't think so. You will not lose her. You will give her up. Just this once. When she comes back, it will be okay. Because from your heart's perspective, she will have been long gone by that time. At that point you will merely pity her.

Forgiveness is for you. Not for her. Don't worry if you're not there yet. You will get there and it will be surprisingly easy. The hurt will stop.


----------



## barbados

Hardtohandle said:


> My wife literally went from working 4 hours *( 12 hours max a week, most time she worked anywhere from 17 to 21 hours every 2 weeks )*, 3 days a week to having to work 5 to 6 days a week* ( though she cannot find steady work like that, so she is stuck working on and off in places )*. She gave up our home. My pension and assorted other retirement money. Gave up a 19 year relationship. She literally gave up doing whatever she wanted. She had Tuesday, Thursday, Friday off. I have family in the same home and my kids were self sufficient, which means she could pick them up from school take them home and then go out to do whatever she wanted, shopping, going to the gym, fvck other men, ETC...
> 
> The reality is she never cleaned the home beyond washing cloths and cooking 3 to 5 times a week. We weren't rich but we didn't cry for a dollar. She would buy tons of cloths and jewelry. She basically did what she wanted. She would spend a week cleaning when she knew people were coming over. Sadly when your married and love someone you over look stuff.
> 
> My plan was to retire this year, sell the home, buy a much larger and nicer home in another state and have a cleaning lady come in to clean the house as we did whatever we wanted. Between retirement money and a new job I could have cleared clean, take home about 10k a month, mind you that is not considering her working if anything. Or we could have both had part time jobs and brought in 2k each for 9k a month. Reminder I get a 10k check at the end of the year until I die.
> 
> Nutshell she will have to work until 65 to collect a social security check and nothing else. The 45K I am giving her is partially spent already, that I know. She absolutely needs this guy now. She cannot survive without him. They are attached at the hip. The only way I see her leaving him is if she finds someone else and does to him what she did to me. If he splits she could not financially survive, I am sure of it. A 2 bedroom apartment goes for 1300 to 1500 a month. 1300 being a bad one that needs work or in a bad area.
> 
> As for myself, I will find someone new, I will eventually remarry ( prenup of course ). The great thing is since I remarried my new wife will also collect part of my social security check, which screws over the STBXW as well. I know this because it happened to my mother when my father left and remarried.
> 
> Honestly it doesn't matter who my STBXW meets, she has issues that she needs to deal with and until she does, she will always be broken and have to deal with these issues no matter who she is with. She can runaway all she wants, she will never outrun herself..



... and I don't feel sorry for her why ? ...

OH, that's right, because she is a CHEATER !


----------



## Acabado

Hardtohandle, you must remind yourself you are still clinging to a false image of your wife. A fantasy version.

She didn't decide to cheat and leave in a few months after 19 years, she was barely invested: she cheated on you at least two other times in the past (that you now of). You even stated she makes dumb decisions out of the blue once in a while, impulsively, with no forethought and not caring of consequences not even for herself. 

It's a pattern. Cheating is not something she suddenly *did*, out of the blue, as she lost her mind. It's who she *is*.


----------



## Openminded

The one thing all of us who have been cheated on have to learn to accept is that we will *never *get inside the cheater's head. We aren't going to understand what made them throw away the life they had with us. We aren't them. Thankfully.


----------



## Hardtohandle

05/02/13 Thursday

Long story short. I got some misinformation. I cannot keep my oldest unless she agrees or I go to court and fight for both of them.

Her lawyer contacted mine and pretty much said if we try to change anything that she will fight for everything. 

My lawyer pretty much stated we can fight but I still might not get the kids and loose much more. 

Sunday we are going to talk and I am going to offer her another 25k for my son. Yes I am trying to buy my son from her. She will get a total of 70k from me. 

I will start with just asking for my sons to stay home with me, but she will say no. 

I will then explain that my oldest is going to talk to her after we are done and he will tell her that he does not want to go under any circumstances. I am going to go with the angle that this will cause issues between her and her new man and it will push her to choose between her son and this OM. 

That she should consider trying to repair the relationship between her and her son. The 25k is 3 years worth of child support for him. Which is when my lawyer says they will let him make a choice or at least seriously listen to him.

My son expressed if he is forced to go, he will refuse and just come home and only sleep at the apartment as needed. He also expressed that he will make it clear to this OM that he wants nothing to do with him.

I'm trying to be neutral and I am explaining to him not to be foot stomping but just make a true decision and let his mother know where he stands. 

I'm not holding out, just hoping it works out..


----------



## Iver

Why offer anything? 

If your oldest son doesn't want to be there I suspect he can make things unpleasant enough for your STBXW and the POSOM that they very quickly would prefer he stay full time with you.

Does she really even want your oldest with her? Remember - if she is granted 50% custody (the norm) that is a maximum limit - in reality you may have him 90% of the time.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Iver said:


> Why offer anything?
> 
> If your oldest son doesn't want to be there I suspect he can make things unpleasant enough for your STBXW and the POSOM that they very quickly would prefer he stay full time with you.
> 
> Does she really even want your oldest with her? Remember - if she is granted 50% custody (the norm) that is a maximum limit - in reality you may have him 90% of the time.


I will try to get him without the offer. But I know money will change her tune and make it much easier not to fight or argue. 

My plans are eventually to move away out of this state. So I want to establish custody from the get if possible. This will give me some time to eventually see my youngest come over to my side. 

I'm looking long term, 20k or 25k is not an issue if I can buy a 400k home ( looking at legendary communities in NC, 6 to 7 bedroom home ) have 100k in the bank and still have 1k or more in the bank saved after all bills are paid and then I still get a 10k check at the end of the year. 

Nutshell I should be saving around 22k a year. I'm not even counting any finances from a significant other. 

So I need to establish that they are with me before I move. It will be less for her to argue about in court. She can see them in the summer time like some dads do.


----------



## Hardtohandle

05/16/13 Thursday

Yesterday STBXW came over we discussed my oldest staying with me. 

I could bore you with the details, but in a nutshell she knew how bad it was and didn't even fight. I basically gave her 10k even though she didn't ask for it to get custody of my oldest son. 

I asked her about keeping the youngest and them together. She immediately shot that down. Wasn't even worth the fight or argument. 

Lawyer hopes judge will not start questioning why the kids are split. All depends on which judge gets my paperwork. Gonna go look for friends in family court and see how I can smooth this over.

The STBXW wants to ease the youngest into moving out slowly. The reality is once he knows the oldest isn't going he will not want to go. STBXW doesn't see this as she is short sighted, or she does see and is just hoping it works out for her. 

So lets see how this is going for me

1. Ended up with my Full pension money.. CHECK
2. Got closer with my kids then we ever have been in our lives.. CHECK
2. Attractive girlfriend 6 years younger then my wife *( nothing better then having someone buying the girl you with a drink, then to have your girl ask what you want to drink. Then waving over to the guy with the beer he just bought you in your hand )*.. CHECK
3. Got custody of one child for 10k *( I would have paid 30k )*.. Half a CHECK ( waiting for paperwork to be done for her to sign )

Buy one son and get the 2nd one for free is the way I look at it.

On the other hand for her with no kids, together they have a hard time trying to pay the 1800 dollar rent they have.. :rofl:

And me I am paying over 5k in bills supporting my 2 kids, my mother and my brother and myself. 

Go figure how all this sh1t works out.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> *( nothing better then having someone buying the girl you with a drink, then to have your girl ask what you want to drink. Then waving over to the guy with the beer he just bought you in your hand )*.. CHECK


Sorry, having a hard time following the after action report here. So, some guy buys your girlfriend a drink, she gives it to you, and then waves a thank you at him? Is that how it went down?


----------



## Hardtohandle

sandc said:


> Sorry, having a hard time following the after action report here. So, some guy buys your girlfriend a drink, she gives it to you, and then waves a thank you at him? Is that how it went down?


waitress comes over and asks the GF that someone would like to buy her a drink. We were sort of apart at the time and I came over with the waitress. I wasn't gone long, it was apparent that someone in the bar was waiting to make his move. 

The GF asks me what do you want to drink and orders me the drink. When the waitress came back the GF asks who the person was and the waitress pointed the guy out to us. 

I raised the beer to him and said thank you. He learned his lesson.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Hardtohandle said:


> waitress comes over and asks the GF that someone would like to buy her a drink. We were sort of apart at the time and I came over with the waitress. I wasn't gone long, it was apparent that someone in the bar was waiting to make his move.
> 
> *The GF asks me what do you want to drink and orders me the drink. When the waitress came back the GF asks who the person was and the waitress pointed the guy out to us.
> 
> I raised the beer to him and said thank you. He learned his *lesson.


That's is top notch. I like this woman's character.


----------



## sandc

Hardtohandle said:


> waitress comes over and asks the GF that someone would like to buy her a drink. We were sort of apart at the time and I came over with the waitress. I wasn't gone long, it was apparent that someone in the bar was waiting to make his move.
> 
> The GF asks me what do you want to drink and orders me the drink. When the waitress came back the GF asks who the person was and the waitress pointed the guy out to us.
> 
> I raised the beer to him and said thank you. He learned his lesson.


I like her.


----------



## Hardtohandle

05/29/13 Wed.. 

Well it has been a bit since I updated. Not much to tell. 

Summary

My kids have been with me since she left. She really doesn't see them much. If she does do anything it is with the youngest and the Oldest is completely ignored. They talk but nothing more.

Monday I worked and she was off but didn't bother trying to do anything with them. 

June 1st is my Youngest communion and my first child support payment.

She wants to take him out slowly, but honestly I'm sorry as I am tired of trying to fix everyones fvck up. 

I love my son and it will kill me to see him go, but if I am paying then he has to go. I'm not gonna pay for a son and have him with me so I can slowly ease him into going with his mother. 

Let him go and see the harsh reality. If he don't want to go then he will have to tell his mom he doesn't.. But I am tired of these games where I need to do the right thing while my Ex does WTF she wants.

This is what she wants, so this is what she gets.

A side note my mother and brother are upset with me because I am with someone. Go figure. They both lost a spouse to adultry and never found someone, so they expect me to just lay down and die. My mother actually told me she expected me to wait at least a year or two before looking for someone.. 

Mind you I pay every bill in a home they both live in for the last 26 years. Even now that I Lost 1k in income from my Ex and pay her 700 a month and then loosing 200 a pay check ( 400 ) from changing martial status. For a total of 2100 a month, I still pay every bill in the home without any assistance from them. 

I am starting to think people are just fvcking crazy.. Especially my family. 

Anyways let see how this ride ends up.


----------



## happyman64

H2H

You actually make a lot of sense.

Vent here and not at your family. You still need them.

And to be honest I am gal you found someone. You can mourn your marriage with her but hopefully for not too long.

Be open and honest with her.

Keep moving forward.

And if your kids do not want to live with their mother then ask the judge for a refund!!! 

HM64


----------



## Iver

Re. your youngest child - you don't need to accomodate your Ex at all - follow the law & child visitation agreements to the letter and that's it.

She made her bed, now she gets to lie in it.

As for finding someone - good on you. 

This idea that you need to suck it up for a couple of years on your own, well, my thought is there's enough ill will and bad news that one gets in life that you don't need to volunteer for more.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Iver said:


> Re. your youngest child - you don't need to accomodate your Ex at all - follow the law & child visitation agreements to the letter and that's it.
> 
> She made her bed, now she gets to lie in it.
> 
> As for finding someone - good on you.
> 
> *This idea that you need to suck it up for a couple of years on your own, well, my thought is there's enough ill will and bad news that one gets in life that you don't need to volunteer for more.*


Had to bold the favorite part


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> H2H
> 
> You actually make a lot of sense.
> 
> Vent here and not at your family. You still need them.
> 
> And to be honest I am gal you found someone. You can mourn your marriage with her but hopefully for not too long.
> 
> Be open and honest with her.
> 
> Keep moving forward.
> 
> And if your kids do not want to live with their mother then ask the judge for a refund!!!
> 
> HM64


HM64, 

That is the one thing we do talk about is being open and honest. The big thing I keep hearing from everyone and even the GF is the ex will eventually snap back into reality and look to come back. 

I expressed to the GF that though I have some emotions for the EX wife. I will never take her back. I showed the GF a picture I took of my Ex wife cell phone charging by my bed while it began to ring and the contact picture was her and the Other man. I told the GF this is why I will never take her back. That even before I went to a lawyer this is what I had to endure, like I was a piece of sh1t. Like I abused her or something, and I deserved this type of treatment. I honestly broke down and lightly cried out of anger. 

I think she got it and understood.

What bothers me is this whole relationship thing and dating. Having kids puts a dent into it, straight and simple. My life is no longer mine. Its not like I am in my 20s, single with no kids and can do what I want and stay out as late as I want. Its a gripe but it is a gripe I accept because I love my kids. 

If anything now lets see what the fvck she and this midget do now that they will have a kid with them 24/7. I'm lucky because my 13 year old is very independent. He can get up have breakfast, have lunch and not have an issue. The 8 year old is a bit of a different story. Let's see how this guy is gonna deal with my son. I give it 2 weeks tops before my son gets tired of it and wants to come home. This guy just will not get it and how could he, he never had kids.

He pitches balls to my son to hit with a bat with my EX present at the school yard. But beyond that he does nothing else with my son and this is done very rarely.

I play ball with my son, I play Xbox with my son, I play minecraft with him. We watch movies together on netflix. He is 8 but he loves zombie movies, so we watch that together. Then of course we go out to do things together which he has not even done with his mother in the past 6 months.


----------



## Hardtohandle

06/17/13 Monday. 

Haven't posted in a long time. 

I had birthday pass and fathers day. The wife bought the kids a card for fathers day but not the birthday, no biggie. I was shocked she got them cards for fathers day. 

Still at 240 LBS, just need to exercise a bit more to tone up and get some better shape. 

Divorce wise. I was giving her 45k and 1400 a month for both kids. End result the oldest is with me I will have custody of him, which is great because she can never get it back. It becomes nearly impossible once the decision is made. 

I gave her another 10k for custody of the oldest. End result she gets 55k and 700 a month for the youngest. I walk away with the almost 300k in debt but I walk away with my pension and everything else. Long run because the equity in the home I am in excellent financial postion fo the future. 

The youngest is with me 5 days out of the week, Wed to Sunday. Why I have no clue, but I'm not complaining since I am suppose to have him every other weekend. 

I am just keeping track of all of this and eventually months down the line I will explain to her I don't mind paying my child support, but I don't see why I need to pay 700 a month if my son is with me 5 days out of the week.

Summer time will put thing even more in my favor due to day care issues for her and just over all fun factor. 

I'm still with that same woman. We have our ups and downs. We are honestly trying to put an effort into working things out between us. Its a challenge at this age. I can understand why things fall apart for many. 

I can honestly say I tend to just give up easily. I just throw my hands up in the air and call it quits and walk. Luckily she understands and fights to bring me back down to earth when I get that way. 

Both understand we have some issues, but at this age who doesn't. I have given up the fantasy of finding the model/doctor/virgin/millionaires who always wanted kids but couldn't have them and now found me, the love of her life.

We are taking it slow, no one is moving in with anyone or any crazy nonsense. We are trying to figure each other out and get some common ground between us. Fortunately my kids are older and boys and she has girls. So no conflict in interest. No one fighting over an Xbox. 

As far as my Ex, honestly it would probably be easier if just one of us just died. Preferably her of course, but unfortunately she has not come to terms with what she did. A normal person would look back at the wreckage and say Holy Sh1t, I'm sorry. Her attitude is she is hoping I will just get over it and just let it go. 

I can't look at her out of disgust and contempt and she can't look at me out of guilt. She still has isolated herself from her family. I didn't ask her mother if she called her father or sent him a card for fathers day. I didn't want to hurt their feelings anymore then they might be hurting. I spoke to them and so did the kids, that is all that mattered.

Of course the isolation is a win for this guy as it keeps her sheltered from any rational thoughts. 

Last week me the kids the GF and her kids went to a restaurant next to where the STBX lives. Long story short, my sons wanted to go there and it was the only restaurant of its type in my area.

Part of me didn't want to walk around in fear or some sort of shame, especially since I didn't do anything. But part me was saying common sense say go some place else.

Nonetheless we went. I didn't look over at her apartment which has a balcony over looking the street. Its a two story building, Its nothing special with a bus stop right in front of the apartment. plus its a busy small street, so you smell car fumes all day.

But of course the GF did and noticed she was outside. She told me when we got into the restaurant. By the time we left it seems the EX, the OM and his family were all out on the balcony just waiting for us. I didn't look up, though I wanted to give them the finger. My kids looked, but their mother said NOTHING. I know her comment would be I didn't want to interrupt your time with them. 

But let me tell you, if I seen my son with them and I was across the street. I would make it my duty to walk over and say hello to my son, if he noticed me or not. That is my fvcking kid and I wouldn't be ashamed to acknowledge that, regardless of who was there. Let alone he see's me and I ignore him.

The truck I gave up in the divorce is being used by the OM for his construction. It honestly makes me sad, I got that truck so we could go somewhere and look presentable. To make my kids comfortable on long rides to visit friends or to go on long trip. 

My kids told me that one day they had to get into the truck and sit on the center console because the whole truck and back seat were full of tools. Its a crying shame to be honest. Though I am happy that I can provide 700 dollars a month to help them pay their rent, which they cannot pay as per a conversation someone had with their landlord and relayed it to me. Further that I could provide him with a truck so he could do some work for a living, while my EX drives my kids to school in a ford fiesta. I guess a fiesta is something like a chevy avalanche. 

I told my kids, mommy left one assh0le ( me ) for another assh0le. She just doesn't understand that we are all assh0les and all the same. Just that she knows this assh0le ( me ) for 19 years. 

Its funny and amazing how you only realize the truth about marriage and a relationship only after you loose it. Its a shame I didn't see this years ago and I mean 19 years ago. I was so involved in fashion model looks and never looked on the inside. I always gauged my relationships on the number of men that would look at my woman or how they looked naked. I know its retarded. 

I was always like wow, I can't believe I have this beautiful woman by my side that I get to grow old with. Now she has become so ugly to me. 

Though I feel fortunate to have the GF I do by my side now. Younger, more beautiful and more caring. I honestly have issues with it and letting go to let her take care of me. Its just something I never had done for me before. 

You know honestly part of me is depressed that all of this turned out like sh1t. I had someone in my life for 19 years that pretty much fell apart over night due to her own doings and lack of compassion or caring. My life turned upside down. 

But the other part knows it was a very hard lesson I needed to learn. Who the fvck wants to be with someone that doesn't love them truly. I know I didn't see it then, but I see it now. It's still sad but at least it's honest for once. 

I don't have to live this life of lies anymore. She can with this OM. I truly hope that I can get this promotion. Buy a new home somewhere else like NC, Texas or Florida and enjoy the rest of my life with my kids and a new loving woman in my life. Honestly I hope the woman I am with. I think we both deserve a break and a fresh start some place else.


----------



## sandc

I mean the following with all respect...

Let. It. Fvcking. Go.

You got a good woman now. She's willing to date a cop. She's willing to work through your issues. That's going to be hard to find again. Don't fvck this up. 

Do you always drive looking in the rear view mirror?


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## happyman64

:iagree:

I remember what it was like to have learned the lesson we all have learned here.

I am just grateful to have met a better woman that is 100 times more beautiful on the inside.

Who understands and values love, commitment and honesty.

But most of all a person that is happy with herself and can stand on her own 2 legs.

Keep healing and stop looking over your shoulder.

Your future is right in front of you.

I am glad you updated us.

HM64


----------



## Iver

Karma is going to catch up with your Ex soon enough. Once you aren't paying extra child support the party is going to end for her.

_I had someone in my life for 19 years that pretty much fell apart over night due to her own doings and lack of compassion or caring._

I am not trying to pile on here but this didn't happen overnight. Your Ex had a long history of bad behavior that you chose to ignore and "soldier on". 

What happened to you sucks but you now have a new, younger woman in your life. You are moving on with your life. 

Your children can also see how you are dealing with adversity. 

Don't forget for one second what you are doing is getting coded into your kids operating system on how to deal with life. That means they are going to do exactly what you are doing now when they are older. 

Be an example to them...

Keep up with the fitness - try the paleo diet for a month and lose 10 lbs. 

Keep up with the IC and commit to being happy.

You can do it.


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## Hardtohandle

06/24/13 Monday


I fvcked up Saturday. I exploded on my kids. I cried. I fell apart. 

Working 12 hours a day, 5 days a week and trying to do something with them as much as I can just caught up to me. 

The whole thing caught up to me.

I'm upset because my STBXW just does what she wants with the youngest. She takes him when she wants and drops him off when she wants. There is MINIMAL issue for her. Whereas I am with my kids 24x7. But for the past 6, going on 7 months she pretty much has been having a single woman life. 

I call my youngest any time he isn' with me for the day. My STBXW doesn't call my oldest for nothing. I took them to a ball game Friday night. She calls the youngest to see how the game was but doesn't ask for the oldest at all. 

When I call my OWN HOME and speak to one son, afterwards I make sure I speak to the other one. Just to let them both know I love them and that I care about them both equally. I just don't hang up the phone after talking with one only.

But it all just caught up to me. I told them where is their mother ? Why doesn't your mother call you ? Why doesn't your mother come here and get you both and take you both out ?

I profusely apologized to the both of them individually and together over the past 2 days, Saturday and Sunday. I explained to them that I am just sad that me and their mom used to be a team and now I am alone without her and I miss her. That I know just hanging out with me is different then hanging out with me and mom. 

As much as I have the GF, it just isn't the same. She has her kids and things to do. I have my kids. She works less then I do so she is home more to get things done during the day. For me I need to go food shopping after work or on the weekends. So Every weekend I pretty much have something to do around the house cleaning wise. 

My GF tells me I need to relax or I'm gonna fall apart. Well it seems she was right. 

I start back Therapy on Wed. I stopped for 2 months. It was a mistake. I'm trying out a closer therapist to my house that is in my medical plan. If he is good I will bring my son to him as well. 

Todays mission

Today I tell my wife that if she is suppose to take the youngest then she is to take him and I will see him ever other weekend unless he wants to see me sooner. But I'm tired of this and treating him like a yoyo. One day their, two days here.. Especially since it is at her whim. I come home and either he is there or not. 

Its no good for him and no good for me.

As far as the oldest is concerned, she is suppose to see him on every other weekend as well. So I will give her a "heads up" so to speak that my son wants nothing to do with the other man and she will have to tell him this other man that every other weekend he will have to go some place else to sleep when my son comes to stay with her. 

I don't even think my son will even go regardless, but he needs to tell her that not me. 

But I think she needs to have her world turned upside down a bit. 

As much as I hate to see my youngest go, I think now is and ideal time. They will be out from school and my wife works 3 days a week on Monday, Wed, and Saturday. Supposedly this OM works 6 days a week. So she will have to figure out day care for my youngest or she will have to grow a pair and humble herself to asking me if he can be here with me while she works. Which I know will kill her.

But if she does amazingly have a pair to ask. I will tell her that she can see him on Thursday and Friday this way he will be with me during her working days. 

But she will still need to figure out what to do with our oldest. 

It's just retarded that I'm trying to figure out my life and what to do with my kids and worry god forbid something happens to my mother who is helping me out at almost 80 years old. 

What would I do ? 
How do I justify leaving my kids of 13 and 8 home alone for 5 hours or getting dinner ready at 8 pm for them after I come home from work ?

I just feel she needs to have the screws put to her a bit. Let her sweat trying to figure out what to do and how to do it. Let her Other man see how fun this married with kids life is that he seemed to have wanted so much.

Let see how excited he is when he finds out he needs to leave his apartment so his Girl Friends son can come over ever other weekend.

On a side note I know my mother would like to have my EX back. That is why she does not want me going out with anyone. To give my EX a chance. So that is something in itself I am also dealing with along with my divorce. Unfortunately I need to just let it go because she is helping me out. 

How I wish I could just leave and move into a new apartment with my GF and play married couple like nothing ever happened in my life.

I'm just tired of having to fix everyone else's issues. 

This Divorce life sucks when you have to deal with kids..


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## sandc

Whatever is in your custody agreement should be stuck to religiously. If she doesn't like it she can have it changed. Or try to.

And yeah, relax. I know, easy to say.


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## Bluecollar

Let the ***** go and embrace your new GF. She sounds like she's in it for the long haul but everyone has a breaking point. It's just another win for the ex if you let her haunt you and cost you your new relationship.


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## CEL

You to DETACH she is not your wife any longer. Quit trying to MAKE her pay for what she has done. QUIT trying to make her into who you want. You posts are filled with she should do this or she should do that. What the hell. She left you. She cheated. She broke her vows. You divorced. Now move the FVCK along. You need to let it GO. Because if you don't you will lose GOOD time with your kids because you ate always angry. Your GF will leave because who wants to be with a guy who can't let go of his ex wife. Your ex wife is no longer your concern what she does or what she feels is he problem. All you are doing now is let her sour your relationship with your kids and your girl.


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## happyman64

Why not have he courts or your attorney work to uphold the custody/visitation agreement?

And everyone has a meltdown H2H sooner or later.

And it is upsetting that your ex is enjoying her new life but you should take a hint and start to enjoy your new life as well.....


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## Chaparral

Btw, unless I am mistaken, if you get a job out of state you can't take your kids with you.

I think you are lucky she doesn't want them with her that much, it doesn't even sound safe(riding the hump with no seatbelt).

Are you keeping a log of how much she dumps them on you?


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## Hardtohandle

06/28/13 Friday

Started with a new therapist on Wed. Its only been one visit, but hindsight being 20/20 I should have maybe looked around for therapist / counselors years ago. Maybe ( and I use that term loosely ) we would be together today. The other counselor was good I guess, but it was more talking to a friend then having someone telling me what issues they see that I have. 

Very good stuff so far. He has me answering a 350 questionnaire for the next session. Basic True or False stuff..

He wants to learn about me and nothing to much to do with my divorce or family atm. Basically get a base line on me first.

The one thing he did tell me that made me feel good in a sense was the following

He asked me if I would ever consider getting back with my STBXW. 

I told him No, not because of the affair. I was forgiving her for the affair. It was everything she did after the affair. I told him, I would eventually kill myself if I took her back. 5 years from now she would be doing this all over again and I would be crushed. I know I couldn't survive something like this again from her. Me being with anyone but her ( my Ex ) would be better.

He said good. 

He then said something is absolutely wrong with her and will never be fixed unless she seeks professional help. He has an idea, but its not about fixing her, its about fixing me.

It was good to hear that. Again though it has been said by everyone here and myself and other friends. Hearing a professional say it as well makes me feel good. It puts me in the thank god its not just me category.

He did say the whole apple doesn't fall far from the tree analogy really does relate well to my issues and that he can see that my issues go back to my family and my father leaving. 

Again interesting stuff..

Divorce wise, the STBXW still does not take this stuff seriously. She still pawns my son back on me. I am going to force her to keep my son this weekend. I made plans and my oldest has plans.. I am not going to cancel my plans or my oldest sons plans because she wants to have my youngest back home with me. 

I am recording things. There isn't really much to record though atm. The kids have been with me since January, only recently did things start to change up a bit with her taking the youngest back to her apartment. 

She still has yet to deal with my oldest even after I told her several times in the past that she needs to NOT ignore him.


----------



## badbane

Hardtohandle said:


> Will try to make it short as possible.
> 
> Married 14 years, dated 5 years. 2 boys 12 and 8.
> 
> My vice was online gaming. At the end I pretty much ate at the computer. I know I ****ed up. It was eating my wife and she snapped and she had an affair and now is leaving me.
> 
> Some extra back story.
> 
> After my first child was 1 years old I caught her intending on meeting someone she spoke with online. She never did it and we went to half ass Counseling. End result over time it was swept under the rug.
> 
> Years later ( about 6 years ago )I caught her emailing her old boyfriend she broke up with to be with me. He was a drug addict and had some other issues. End result he seems he cleaned himself up and is now a counselor in another state. She admitted she was fishing to hook up. I got pissed and she told me she was going to a counselor, I went with her.
> 
> It was one of the best things we did. The counselor is good and on point. My friends puts it best when he says it seemed as if we came out of that issue stronger. I really felt the same way.
> 
> Unfortunately I ended up becoming more of a third son then a husband. I work 44 hours a week and put in about 35 to 40 hours OT a month. My wife works part time and deals with the rest. Taking the kids to school, picking them up, cooking, ETC..
> 
> End result she meet someone in June who basically expressed and interest and she accepted to talk to him via phone and text message. Since June they meet twice and had sex.
> 
> We tried Counseling since October. Unfortunately she had second phone to talk to him and when I caught her with that, she agreed at a Counseling session to toss the phone away and not to talk to him again, she also expressed this to him by calling him up during our session. I come to discover that about 2 days later she reached out to him again and has been in contact with him since then.
> 
> I know she has problem communicating from the last incident. And I admittingly have or had a short fuse and flew off the handle too fast. So she couldn't tell me to get off the computer and acted out this way. She admits she is 1000% wrong for what she did.
> 
> Her simple comment is she does not love me anymore.
> 
> What also is killing me is this guy is calling her and texting her when I am home. Even though I expressed how painful it is to me and also having the Counselor telling her that he or she should not be doing that, It still goes on.
> 
> On one hand I am trying to get the divorce papers done fast enough so she can get out and on the other hand I don't want her to go.
> 
> I know what she is doing now is really crappy, but I know the good person she is as well.
> 
> I cry at work, I go home and cry in private. I pretty much just about begged her to reconsider.
> 
> I'm just having a hard time coping with this. I know it will get better and I understand it will take time, but I just love her to death and we have been so much together.
> 
> I stood at my door this morning and just listened to the silence in the house and it just hit me that its going to be just like that every morning and evening I come home when she is gone with the kids. It really hard to handle.
> 
> I would do anything to fix this and keep my family together.


Then why are you still paying her phone bill. Stop just complaining and make changes. You have to step up and make the moves and take control. Being passive aggressive will only make it worse. You wife had an affair because of her own issues. You didn't help matters. She is the one responsible for cheating. After all you were in the same crappy marriage. You were working your butt off to provide for her. You could have cheated with a coworker or business associate just as much as she did with the OM. She is in the Affair Fog and some people just would rather live in the fog rather than face reality.


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## Hardtohandle

badbane said:


> Then why are you still paying her phone bill. Stop just complaining and make changes. You have to step up and make the moves and take control. Being passive aggressive will only make it worse. You wife had an affair because of her own issues. You didn't help matters. She is the one responsible for cheating. After all you were in the same crappy marriage. You were working your butt off to provide for her. You could have cheated with a coworker or business associate just as much as she did with the OM. She is in the Affair Fog and some people just would rather live in the fog rather than face reality.


BB, I get what your saying that stuff happen 6 months ago. I'm just about divorced at this time.


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## Hardtohandle

07/07/13 Sunday..

Broke up with the GF. Retarded fight.. But its done regardless.

I can see I have issues being alone and I am working on that in therapy. 

My friend put it best. Your a great dad, you were a great husband, but you don't know how to be a great Bobby. You don't know who you are. You need time to find that out.

Still having detachment issues again working on it.

My youngest doesn't want to live with her, though he wants to see her. End result the oldest is with me 7 days a week. Since school is over since June 26th my STBXW has not called or spoken to him since.

My youngest will see his mother on Monday and Tuesday. I will look to change it to Thursday, Friday or Friday, Saturday.

I told her that we will not change the divorce papers again and if he is with me for the next 3 months I will continue to pay her child support but then she will have to come with me to court and change custody info and Child support money. She didn't argue it or rebuff it.

The reason we are not changing is because the lawyer feels right now I have too much to loose to keep changing the paperwork. I paid him and in 90 days he tells me we should be done.

I've said this over and over again and I will keep saying this. When you have kids, Divorce Svcks.. When you divorce you not only divorce your spouse you divorce your kids.

There is just nothing, absolutely nothing good about this. 

As a side note the therapist feels because I witnessed my parents divorce and the circumstances around it, he feels this has been magnified for me. So he says the sense of loss is a bit greater for me. But that I have a bit more understanding which helps me out a bit more when dealing with my kids.

I feel bad for my ex.. I can only imagine how lost she must be. 

I miss my family..

I just don't see how this is all worth it. I just can't understand how all this pain is worth all of this.. Why couldn't we just be happy.. Why couldn't she be happy. 

Just when you think your done crying, you cry some more. I don't even understand why anymore. 

It's like watching someone go nuts, but its you..

I'm alright. It could always be worse, right ?


----------



## Iver

Re the GF break up...you are still going through a divorce. It's really tough to deal with a new relationship and a divorce at the same time.

Get this divorce done. Once it's over either paint your house, or get new sheets or do something to show a fresh start.

Can you get into an exercise program? As a police officer is Krav Maga available in your area? Either that or Boxing/BJJ or even CrossFit?

I'm suggesting this because you'll feel better getting a couple of hard work outs in per week - and it will help you to continue to lose weight which will also positively impact your life.

Oh yeah, it'll also give you something else to focus on besides the crap sandwich your STBXW served up...


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Hardtohandle said:


> I just can't understand how all this pain is worth all of this.. Why couldn't we just be happy.. Why couldn't she be happy.
> 
> Just when you think your done crying, you cry some more. I don't even understand why anymore.
> 
> It's like watching someone go nuts, but its you..
> 
> I'm alright. It could always be worse, right ?


Sorry you are going through this. Based on what you wrote above, though, you aren't really being honest with yourself. That will take you a long way. Both of you had issues: her eye has been wandering for years and years. Your eyes were fixed on the computer. That being said, you really can't ask "why couldn't she just be happy?" You really will go nuts asking yourself "why" questions.

Rather than the questions, change your thoughts. Remember that how you feel now is in your hands. Resolve to be happy and move on. Happy with you; happy solo + kids.


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## Hardtohandle

09/04/2013 Wednesday

Well this is what is going on.. It's almost a year since I caught her.. Sept 25 was the day.

My oldest 13 year old is with me 7 days a week. My wife hasn't spoken or seen my son since June 26th.. 

My 8 year old son was suppose to be with my wife and visit me, but didn't want to go. On paper she has primary residence. My wife see's him 2 days a week, mon and tues and come home wed afternoon. But it seems he is getting tired of going over and is now for the last 2 weeks requested to come home Tuesday night.. I warned her of this weeks ago in one of my usual one sided text messages in which she never responds.

Our communication is just about nonexistent. I text her and hope she reads it. She will never answer my phone calls.

I should be finalized sometime in December / January. 

I pay her 700 a month in Child Support. Once finalized, I will ask her to remove the support completely and then offer her 5k to 10k for full custody of the boys. There was a time where I thought she would never consider leaving my boys, but now I don't know who she is. 

It is obvious she has had some sort of break down but it does not excuse of what she did or is doing. I've come to the realization that she knows enough to not do the things she did and that I can only fix me ( I actually figured that out awhile ago about only fixing me ).

It's just sad and funny knowing how bad she screwed this up. How she failed miserably with our kids. 

It's also amazing how things turn out. 
9 months ago I couldn't see my life without her. 
4 months ago started dating a woman 3 years younger then me and 6 years younger then my Ex.. 
Today I'm dating a woman 11 years younger than my Ex and 8 years younger than me.. 

What I have come to learn about dating is woman in their 40s are pretty much like men.. If they are single into their 40s then they really don't want to be strapped down with a guy with young kids or a full time dad like myself. 

On the other hand for woman with kids, it becomes the major conversation when they find out I have my kids full time..


----------



## Thorburn

What a ride. At least things seem to be coming to a conclusion but for a mother to abandon her kids is just so unreal. Hang in there and hopefully the D will be over sooner then later.


----------



## happyman64

How do you like those women that have their kids full time?

Do You find hem attractive?

Do they put up with less BS?

Are they more interested in you before or after they find out you are a full time Dad?

Did you ever watch the Brady Bunch growing up? 

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> How do you like those women that have their kids full time?
> 
> Do You find hem attractive?
> 
> Do they put up with less BS?
> 
> Are they more interested in you before or after they find out you are a full time Dad?
> 
> Did you ever watch the Brady Bunch growing up?
> 
> HM


I did watch the brady bunch growing up. 

I honestly can relate how tough it is for them. 
My friend get his kids every other weekend and even he forgets that I have my kids with me full time. Granted he misses his kids but he does enjoy his free time as well. His girlfriend can stay over his place or can come over and screw around.

I can't do those things because my boys are their. I honestly have to pay for a short stay. 

I think they are more interested once they understand I am a full time dad. Even when I explain it via text they don't get it. I sort of have it up on a dating website, but again I just think they gloss it over or what they assume is that I am active with my kids. 

Only once I talk to them do they really get it. Of course then comes the million questions. Like Thorburn said, they can't understand how she the mother, abandon her kids. 

They start to think that maybe she was on drugs or crazy in some way. But the reality is she is none of the above. She is smart or sensible to want to see the youngest, then she is smart enough to understand. 

My Ex just bit off more than she could chew. I do believe she thought she was doing the right thing but just wasn't smart enough to see the big picture or look ahead more than a day or two. 

I think long ago in one of my postings I mentioned this, she was playing checkers, while I was playing chess in this game of life. I had tons of SMART support. Whereas she had this retard she left me for. He couldn't take care of himself let alone him and her. I think he basically played her and now she is just stuck with it.

She was too stupid honestly to get out of her own way. Another smart person would have sat down with their other man and expressed that they needed to terminate their marriage in more of a amicable way for the sake of their kids. She didn't. 

I think he forced her hand and she had to do what she did to show him that she loved him now and that is all fine and well. But you get what you paid for. 

I think because I come off serious about my kids and my kids well being that woman in their 30s that have kids get it.

I think they have been through their own meat grinder that they are looking for someone normal. Just from some of these dating websites and what some women are posting, I can tell there are some ill adjusted men out here.


----------



## happyman64

You are correct.

There are both men and women out there that just are not adjusted too well. Very sad.

I have a buddy down south whose wife cheated. She came clean and then she really started acting crazy.

She took off on him and his two young daughters multiple times for this OM.

Sadly his children were affected, even showing physical symptoms of stress. And he was affected as well.

He kicked her out. Took control of the finances. Got full possession of the house. Full custody of his daughters.

Divorced her in 90 days.

His Ex would like to reconcile. He will not even consider it. I do not blame him.

His Ex does have 50/50 custody now.

But her life sucks. She got what she asked for. Sadly my buddy is still putting the pieces back together.

It takes time. And no one wins in these crappy situations.

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

09/06/23 Friday

I forgot to mention my wife agreed to take over our truck and all responsibilities for it. Well I don't need to tell you she racked up 600 dollars in parking tickets and late fees. 

I told her about it 3 weeks ago and she said she could not pay it. To take it out of her child support. Well as you can further understand and imagine, I legally cannot do that and I explained that to her. Foolish me I just assumed when she got the check she would pay the tickets. 

Do I need to tell you she didn't.. I have a collection agency on me and probably about to screw up my credit, which at this time is great and I don't want to mess around with it. 

I texted her and she ignored my text. I called her twice and she answers.. She had slurred speech. I mentioned in the past that she might be on drugs. I am starting to feel she might be.

My brother smartly thinking reminded me they not be illegal drugs. That she might be taking pills to calm her down since she might be stressing out know noticing that she is loosing her kids.

On a bright side this woman I am suppose to be going on a date tomorrow night called me today to confirm. Which is nice.. I didn't contact for 2 days to see how she would roll with this. 

She made it clear she was happy going out and excited. That I made great impression on her. She is making it very clear that she very interested in me. Which is always nice, she was a bit standoffish at first and did express that she didn't have the energy sometimes to work on a relationship ATM.. I played it cool and told her I understand. I played very flighty and just pushed the line all my friends are looking to hook me up with a friend or a relative so I'm not pushing anyone for a relationship. 

I think over the next several days that weighed on her and she started making it more clear that she was more interested then the first meeting. Funny how the psyche works on people. The less you act like you care the more they want you.


----------



## happyman64

Enjoy the date.

And grill the crap out of her with nice, smooth conversation.

Then play coy.

She might just try to kiss you by the end of the night!


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> Enjoy the date.
> 
> And grill the crap out of her with nice, smooth conversation.
> 
> Then play coy.
> 
> She might just try to kiss you by the end of the night!


HM there is no try, there is just DO....


----------



## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> HM there is no try, there is just DO....


Do you work for Nike or just wear them? Have a great night.


----------



## Hardtohandle

09/09/13 Monday

The weekend started with me finding out my wife still did not pay the now 650 dollars in tickets that her and the OM racked up on the truck that was registered in my name. The one she agreed in writing to take care of and would be responsible for during the divorce proceedings. 

We ended in a text argument. 

It was interesting, some of her lines were as follows.

If you didn't act like a 18 year old boy playing the computer until 4 am.. 

For those that know my story. This was one of her gripes. I of course got off the computer since then. Beyond posting here and other internet surfing I am not on the computer as I was before.

Of course as other have said, I have come to learn that was not the real issues. Just the excuse to blame me for this incident. 

I told her try to use that excuse on someone who has some common sense or a therapist.. You never once complained. Long story short I expressed I would have done anything to fix this with her. 

As Walkonmars said in his posting here, calling her Mother Theresa. I've come to notice that my STBXW does a lot of finger pointing but failed to blame herself at all. 

I went on to explain this to her. It is funny how any key points I bring up she fails to address or explain. But is quick to tell me how terrified the kids are or where of me. 

I told her it's so funny they are so scared, then why aren't they with you ? Why is it that our 8 year old is getting tired of being there that he wants to come home Tuesday night instead of Wednesday ?

Again no answers or responses. 

She tells me one day the kids will see the man I truly am.. 
I laughed out loud.. I reminded her that she wanted me to be the disciplinarian. That they would respect me when they were older. 

I mentioned this in the past, but I truly do believe she was setting me up to be the bad guy. Basically try to make it easier for the kids to go with her. *" See what a tyrant your father is"*

I'm fortunate to have been able to change and speak with my kids.. They understand completely. I admitted my shortcomings and spoke that I would change for the better and to be a better father, but I wouldn't be used as a toy against their mother. I would not be pitted against their mom as to see who would be the best for getting the most toys from.. That I would do more talking but I still am dad and the boss in the house.

It worked.. We talk more, we hug more. But many of you know that already..


Today school started. 

The youngest tells me mom is going to make lunch for him and bring it to him in the morning for school. She also has a cloths for him for his first day of school.

At 730 I get a knock at the door. I go down, open the door 1/4 of the way and its her.. 

GET READY..

SHE TRIES TO WALK IN..

I stop her and she asks can't I come in? I tell her no.. 
She immediately throws the bag on the floor and walks off to her car.. 

I pick up the bag. It consisted of a notebook, a pencil, 3 shirts and a pair of jeans. Mind you, my mom is there with me and she says to me, those are the jeans you bought him. So in reality all she had there were 3 shirts and the notebook.

When we all left the house together I let the youngest go first and kept my oldest in the driveway. I knew she wanted to see him. Yes I'm a d0uchebag. 

My son the oldest, explained to me yesterday that she called for my youngest but when she found out he wasn't home, she just told him to have him call her when he gets back in. Now this is coming from a woman who hasn't spoken to my oldest son in over 2 months. You think she would just talk to him since she hasn't seen him or spoken to him in 2 months. She had him all to herself and didn't even try. 

Her excuse is I tainted them against her. Because I yelled at her where were you ? fvcking that guy ?... 

My simple response was You were fvcking that guy.. Am I lying ? 

The date.. 

The girl was a bit heavier than I seen the first time around.. But I am letting it go.. I'm trying not to be that shallow man of the past.. I was 75 LBS heavier 9 months ago so who the fvck am I to judge.. Plus I know there is more to a person then just looks or weight.. I am trying to grow up a bit more and be a different man.


----------



## Iver

What's going to happen with the tickets? 

I would think that you don't want this to show up on your record, being a policeman. If it's a one off you may be better off just paying it.

Are all your bills, phone plans, bank accounts, vehicles, etc. now separated so this can't happen again?? Please say yes.


----------



## happyman64

> I am trying to grow up a bit more and be a different man.



I think that is key. Working on you.

I know your wife has put you and the boys through the ringer. I actually do understand why at times you hate her.

But in time you will actually have to let her try to be a Mom again.

I encourage you to do that in the future. I know her attempts at this time are really lame. ANd it hurts you to see her do this.

But it is not worth having a heart attack over HTH.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Iver said:


> What's going to happen with the tickets?
> 
> I would think that you don't want this to show up on your record, being a policeman. If it's a one off you may be better off just paying it.
> 
> Are all your bills, phone plans, bank accounts, vehicles, etc. now separated so this can't happen again?? Please say yes.


Yea the truck was the only thing. I told her if she gives me a notarized letter saying to take it out of child support I can do it..


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> I think that is key. Working on you.
> 
> I know your wife has put you and the boys through the ringer. I actually do understand why at times you hate her.
> 
> But in time you will actually have to let her try to be a Mom again.
> 
> I encourage you to do that in the future. I know her attempts at this time are really lame. ANd it hurts you to see her do this.
> 
> But it is not worth having a heart attack over HTH.


You know HM I just have no fvcking clue how to forgive her or accept this sometimes.. 

I don't look to screw her over, but if the chance arises I would kick her when she is down. I know part of me is saying one day the tables will be turned.. But I just don't care.. 

You know I don't need to tell you how hard it was for me those other times.. How much I had to eat and swallow to keep our relationship. I hated her, I wanted to walk away. I wanted to find someone else and just dump her. But I didn't I understood people make mistakes.. Every time I had to relive these emotions and I had to deal with years of triggers. 

Even on the day she was actually out fvcking this guy I was worried and panicking. She was suppose to be at a xmas party with the office but she left them early to meet this guy.. So go figure while I was panicking, I had good reason to do so.. 

But she still wants to point a finger at me and instead of going nuts I just calmly tell her we both fvcked up but this wasn't the right answer.. Her common answer even after bringing things up and me shooting them down is I'm sorry I just didn't love you anymore. 

I'm just pissed she put me through this 3 other times and like a sucker I went along with it. I thought I was doing the right thing for my family for her.. 

I'm sorry but I hope my son never see's her again.. I hope my youngest grows up and realizes what his mother did and makes the same choices.. I hope I find someone who will treat my kids like they deserve and I can move away into a beautiful home with my kids and my Ex cries knowing she will never see my kids again.. I hope this other man leaves her as well taking whatever money I gave her in the divorce settlement. That is my fantasy and my dream.. I just want her to wake up every day for the rest of her life knowing how fvcked up she was how she ruined everything or at least tried and we were able to move on without her as a happy family.

Again I don't relish on this everyday. But its my overall sentiments.


----------



## warlock07

Sorry HTH, her relationship with her kids has nothing to do with you. Especially the younger one. It can mess him up if he notices it. And he will notice it if it goes on. Don't be that parent. Please try to reach a place of indifference.

I think most of your rage comes from the fact that she made you look like an idiot after you forgave her 3 times. You probably need to deal with it first.


----------



## Hardtohandle

09/23/13 Monday.. 

In 2 days it will be one year since my D-Day.. 

Sept is a bad month in the simple sense that every affair from my wife all circled around this month, which happens to be our wedding anniversary as well. Go figure that one.. I know some psychologist would have a field day with that one..

Where am I today.. 

80LBS lighter.. Some say 200 if you add my Ex wife weight as well. 

Still waiting to finalize, Hopefully Oct or Nov..
I will look to drop the child support, makes no sense paying for kids that are with me. 
I will eventually look to hit her up for child support.. 

I'm dating another woman, I have a few on the list.. Its either you feast or famine. I've come to discover that once I meet them being a nice guy and a straight shooter works wonders.. It seems many woman have already taken a beaten from other guys so they are bit shell shocked.. Once they see I'm honest and not a stalker they seem to attach quite easily. 

The problem becomes money and time to date. I really don't have that time with my kids with me full time.. 

I'm not gonna lie I am financially okay.. Again not crying for a buck. But I hate spending 100 dollars or more a date.. There is no cheap way around it here in the big city.. Only so many coffee shops I can take a woman to. Even bowling would cost 70$ for 2 hours.. Mind you many of the bowling alleys in my area are shut down.. I would again have to go out of my area.. Either another adjoining town or the city.. Regardless tolls and gas I am spending 100 dollars plus for even a bowling date.. 

I still am angry at my Ex.. I truly feel she needs to be punished.. Her paying me child support will be that punishment.. Well to me it is.. I know its the law, but I'm just happy the tables will hopefully be reversed on her.. For her and him and her family to wonder how did this all work out like this.

I fell in love with a band called Red during this time.. They seem to express how I feel sometimes during all of this.. 

Pieces from End of Silence album is a great song.. 

I know I am much better when I don't cry listening to songs that used to make me cry months ago.. 

I want her to realize how senseless this all was.. How wrong she was.. How she not only destroyed us, but our family and our kids.. 

I want her to tell me this.. I want her to apologize.. Even if I don't accept it.. 

I want her to understand I wanted to be happy with her and not someone else.. That she screwed this all up. 

That she should have fought for us, like I was trying to do.. 

I'm angry that she forgot all the past affairs and never took them into account. As if they were expected, okay or didn't count.. 

But.. 

I've learned a lot.. Even at 46 I grew up a lot more.. 

I need tone up and get even in better shape.. The next woman in my life will say thank you for having me.. 

Peace out


----------



## bandit.45

Understand that cheaters are proud above all else. You won't get those things from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Overthemoon88

Hardtohandle said:


> 09/23/13
> 
> I still am angry at my Ex.. I truly feel she needs to be punished.. Her paying me child support will be that punishment.. Well to me it is.. I know its the law, but I'm just happy the tables will hopefully be reversed on her.
> 
> 
> I want her to realize how senseless this all was.. How wrong she was.. How she not only destroyed us, but our family and our kids..
> 
> 
> I want her to understand I wanted to be happy with her and not someone else.. That she screwed this all up.
> 
> That she should have fought for us, like I was trying to do..
> 
> I'm angry that she forgot all the past affairs and never took them into account. As if they were expected, okay or didn't count..
> 
> 
> *I've learned a lot.. Even at 46 I grew up a lot more.. *
> 
> 
> 
> Peace out


HTH,

Yours is one of the few threads I follow up whenever I log on to CWI. Though I'm not a prolifiric poster here ....

I could relate so well to the above butchered quote, as a female BS. Hey, I read the bolded part towards the end and scrolled back up to the top to do a double-take ... We're of the same age and, guess what, my wedding anniversary is tomorrow ...

You sound like an absolutely fabulous Dad. You and your kids are so lucky to have each other (((hugs)))


----------



## alte Dame

It sounds like a cliche', but your WW hadn't deserved you for a very long time. Some of us are destined to fall in love with the wrong people & you, HTH, are a good-hearted man who has unfortunately been afflicted with this.

We can all tell you that you will meet someone who will really love you. The chances of that are very high. It's the intervening time that is so lonely and sad and aggravating and hurtful.

So, I hope you keep dating. I know it's expensive - can you try things like hiking on a weekend or driving up the coast, etc.? A day at the beach or in the mountains is always nice and not expensive. I'm sure if you persevere, one of the nice women out there will hit the right notes.


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## Hardtohandle

09/25/13 Wed..

First off thanks all for the great words..

@Overthemoon88 if you are ever in NYC let me know.. 
@Bandit I know, I've accepted it, sort of.. This is why I need to exact my own legal and just revenge.. 

Overthemoon88 don't read this next stuff.. Guys only stuff here

=================

Getting laid on my D-Day is the best thing that could have happened.. 

It changed a bad day into a good day.. The girl I am with knew what today was afterwards.. 

Many years ago when I was 20 I dated and lived with a woman 12 years my senior. We lived together for 4 1/2 years.. We did everything together and I have to say she trained me well and yes I will say trained me. I knew what to do but didn't know the subtleties. The one thing she told me was always make sure a woman is pleased before you please yourself, because once you orgasm your pretty much done, where as a woman can do it several times.. Another thing she showed me, which I didn't understand back then as much as I do now.. LISTENING... I had a hard time telling when I was hitting the right spot without her telling me. She told me just listen to me and hear how I react to certain spots.. 

NOW I GET IT and use it all the time.. 

Combining that with my retarded ejaculation issues, I am the fvcking king.... Its great.. I go into the bedroom with such confidence now I have zero fear or concerns.

There is nothing better then hearing a woman tell me she needs a rest. 

What I thought was going to be an issue, is nothing but a boon.

I'm just on a good emotional high today.. Its sounds like gloating, and maybe I am. But this stuff is just starting to work so well for me.. 

I just haven't felt this confident and happy in a while..


----------



## Hardtohandle

10/30/13 Wed..

I'm still waiting to get fvcking divorced. Its killing me.

I called the lawyer and told him I would suck another mans d1ck to get this done any faster.. I just want this part done that bad..

Its amazing how 11 months ago I wanted to die and today I can't wait to be divorced and get this done with. 

I meet another woman. She is in love, as she professes.. Its the one from D-Day..

She tells me she loves me and reassures me its okay that I don't feel like she does.. Its great to have the attention to be honest and feel like you are the best thing since slice bread.

She is smart and a hard worker.. She is always looking out for me and tries to keep me home so as not to spend money to go out on dates.. Go figure that one. 

But I tell her we need to make memories for ourselves and that things can get serious enough in due time. 

The ex wife is still angry.. She just shows no sign of ever letting up. I won't back down either.. I remind her, she had the affair not me and that if she would act like a human being, so would I. I still call her boyfriend a midget and a piece of sh1t.. I don't think she likes that.

The lawyer says he will call the courts in a few weeks to see what is going on. 

I think my Ex knows I will hit her up for child support once this is all done. Its like impending doom, there is just nothing she can do about it. The first check I get from her will go on facebook. Yes I am that much of an angry d0uchebag.. 

I warned her several times as she treated me like a piece of sh1t and a used candy wrapper that I would get her back.. That she didn't need to burn this bridge.. But she didn't give a fvck.. But she will soon enough.. Then I will get the *"Come'on HTH, why do you need to do this"* line..

I am always reminded of the Conan line. *What is best in life ?*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6PQ6335puOc


----------



## Hardtohandle

As a side note..

I will say this for my Ex, she is a tough cookie.. She never shows me any ounce of weakness. She has told me several times in the past. Get over it, I am happy.. Move on with your life.. 

Of course that just reminds me of how much I need to crush her even more..


----------



## Hardtohandle

Sunday 11/10/13

Few weeks ago I got a promotion which is very nice.. I keep my rank of Detective but get paid as a Sergeant. Its about a 12k raise and pretty much equates that way in my pension to 1k increase per month... I got my numbers and I have to say they were pretty good. I'm pretty much at the point that I make the same staying home as working with Over Time.. I know its crazy, but I just can't leave until I can get the full benefit of the new promo money.. 

Going to wait until next week to ask the lawyer WTF is going on.. Back in Sept he told me 30 to 60 days.. Well we are rolling into 90 days.. 


I just want this sh1t done.. ( as a side note its funny how I just instinctively hit the number 1 key to type in sh1t )


Anyways, I am still paying CS for my youngest though he is living with me. Again I don't want to stop the paperwork. 

On a odd note, I went to breakfast with the new GF and my kids this morning.. The old GF ends up sitting right across from us.. My oldest noticed and whispered to me. The old GF must have noticed as well and asked for a different booth at the diner.

What I find odd is she has a diner that she goes to ALL the time right around the corner from her house.. Now she is at diner 1 block away from my house.. 

The new GF and my mom separately commented the old GF is going there because she knows I go out to breakfast with the boys on sundays occasionally.. She also knows I got the promotion from a friend.. He said she seems a bit miffed as if she missed out on that..


----------



## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> Sunday 11/10/13
> 
> Few weeks ago I got a promotion which is very nice.. I keep my rank of Detective but get paid as a Sergeant. Its about a 12k raise and pretty much equates that way in my pension to 1k increase per month... I got my numbers and I have to say they were pretty good. I'm pretty much at the point that I make the same staying home as working with Over Time.. I know its crazy, but I just can't leave until I can get the full benefit of the new promo money..
> 
> Going to wait until next week to ask the lawyer WTF is going on.. Back in Sept he told me 30 to 60 days.. Well we are rolling into 90 days..
> 
> 
> I just want this sh1t done.. ( as a side note its funny how I just instinctively hit the number 1 key to type in sh1t )
> 
> 
> Anyways, I am still paying CS for my youngest though he is living with me. Again I don't want to stop the paperwork.
> 
> On a odd note, I went to breakfast with the new GF and my kids this morning.. The old GF ends up sitting right across from us.. My oldest noticed and whispered to me. The old GF must have noticed as well and asked for a different booth at the diner.
> 
> *What I find odd is she has a diner that she goes to ALL the time right around the corner from her house.. Now she is at diner 1 block away from my house.. *
> 
> The new GF and my mom separately commented the old GF is going there because she knows I go out to breakfast with the boys on sundays occasionally.. She also knows I got the promotion from a friend.. He said she seems a bit miffed as if she missed out on that..


Take it from a husband of 21 years and father of 3 teem girls. All woman are crazy. It is a woman thing. The key is finding a good, honest woman that has the least amount of crazy in them.

And when it comes to a good man some women get stalkerish crazy. Not unlike some of their male counterparts.

Glad you got the promotion.

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> Take it from a husband of 21 years and father of 3 teem girls. All woman are crazy. It is a woman thing. The key is finding a good, honest woman that has the least amount of crazy in them.
> 
> And when it comes to a good man some women get stalkerish crazy. Not unlike some of their male counterparts.
> 
> Glad you got the promotion.
> 
> HM



A friend of mine just called me and as I was telling him the story his wife was talking to my Ex-GF about the same incident.. 

His wife pretty much told her why are you in his neighborhood and not at the diner near your house.. The Ex-GF gave her reason but was told she shouldn't be going there as there are many diners that she can go to much closer than that one. She also told her it looks like you're stalking him..

-----------------

On a side note..

I have to tell you I am learning things about life and relationships.. 

A friend /coworker of mine who has been through this whole ordeal with me recently told me, Its great to see you back to normal, but I can tell you're so different as well. You're back to being the funny guy and goofing around as you used to be which is what everyone loves about you. But I can also see how serious you are now with the kids.. How you drop everything when it comes to dealing with your kids.. I know before you had your wife to help you out and it was a team effort, but you just seems so serious now in other ways.. 

Its not a bad thing, but I can just see how this whole thing has made you a different man in so many ways.. 

One thing I am learning is the reality of understanding that people have lived their lives at this age.

I am not saying I am an old man at 46, but no matter how many times I might tell someone else I think this is something I just have not been grasping.. People ( meaning the opposite sex ) have lived their lives before meeting me.. 

There is honestly a part of me that doesn't want that.. There is a retarded part of me that wants that semi virginal woman.. I know its retarded, I know its stupid.. I can rationalize it and deal with it appropriately. But if I don't pay attention I can see issues coming up because of it.. 

Again its stupid, but I am being honest, because I hope one day someone will come here and read this whole thread and understand what happens to people. Maybe it will help someone else out who is much earlier in the stages of a pending divorce to know what they could expect as they move on with their lives..

When I met my STBXW in our 20s we had lived our lives.. She wasn't a virgin, I already had one divorce under my belt with no kids.. But the history was much less.. 

Whereas NOW, I am meeting a woman in her 40s or late 30s and they have a past.. OMG ( sarcasm)... 

And yes I do wonder how many guys this girl has fvcked before me.. Does someone have a naked picture of her somewhere ? Does this mother of 2 kids act all virtuous with me, but then I have some guy showing me a picture of her getting double teamed out of spite and anger.. 

How do I handle something like this ?

Again retarded, but this is something that goes through my mind.. Why does it ? Because of what I see on peoples computers all the time.. I get to see a very personal side of people and I've come to discover that many women are just as bad as men when it comes to morality.. 

And yes it bothers me.. 

I panic to think what would happen if I fall for someone like this and to find out something crazy like this.. What if my kids should find out or see something crazy.. How do I explain it to my kids after what their mother has done to them and subjected them to during this whole affair and divorce..

In the end I am learning that I need to let this stuff go.. I cannot have a fantasy about something that never happened.. 

Trust me when I tell you I have asked my current GF straight out am I going to ever find nude pics of you on your computer and if so then who else has them ?.. 

I was honest about my morality issues. I explained to her that I believe the only nude pictures should be in someone mind and not on some phone.. 

I explained to her how many times I see Ex GF or BF coming to complain that a nude picture that was posted online is not a crime when it is clear that consent was given to take the picture.. *( You can't say I never knew the picture or video was being taken when you see a flash or light on the person in a dark room and them smiling with banana stuck in their backside )*

Even after the GF told me NO. I still just didn't believe her. I never voiced it, but I tell you I had my doubts.. Again I know its my insecurities and just mind wandering around because of my divorce and other things.. 

It is like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop sometimes.. 

I am happy that I can see this and understand that it isn't good for me to think this way.. But I do get amazed to how much I never noticed my Divorce would affect me this way.. 

I just thought it was going to be I will be upset for a few months and then I will be back to normal.. But I can see and understand there is no normal now, just different..

Again living a sort of sheltered life relationship wise I am learning the reality of things as well.

As an example I would guess there are many here that might know someone who smokes pot/weed or might even do it themselves.. But personally I don't know anyone who does or hang out with anyone who does. 

All my friends over the years are pretty much other Cops excluding a few life long friends.. It just seems doing my job sort of isolates you from some of the norm of average society today if you get what I mean.. 

Part of me lost some patience as well along the way... I have to say doing the whole courtship thing is a bit of a pain at this age and dealing with kids.. Just with the limited time of seeing each other and just learning how to build a relationship again within these time constraints is difficult and stressful. 

Part of me now is just saying Fvck it and just hang with the kids for the rest of my life but part of me enjoys the companionship and knows I will never have someone unless we both work at it and try to make time for each other.. 

So divorce really is a crazy thing and really does mess with your head..


----------



## jnichk76

Thank you so much for continuing to share this with us. I have learned a lot and am a benefactor from reading your entire post and I am sure I will benefit from the post to come. 

My wife had an EA and we have reconciled which has made me more marriage conscious. I have experienced the more serious side of things that you were talking about when it comes to my children and the time I spend with my wife and more attentive of how I handle our ups and downs.

Make sure your boys get all the help they need and continue to teach them how to be a good man, husband and father. As we all try to give them what we wished some one would have gave us.


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## happyman64

HTH

Of course divorce messes with your head.

Sadly the mess caused by one spouse's infidelity and subsequent Divorce usually has to be cleaned up by the Battered Spouse.

It makes you realize just how damaged another person can be.

But realize this: Not all people are like this. Some people actually do have strong morals, strong self esteem and want to love as well as be loved by another person.

The key is to leave no stone unturned. You will need to learn to trust again. But you will be smarter, wiser.

Relationships take hard work.

Take your time. Heal. 

Good things will happen to you and for your family. You just have to be ready to let them happen.

HM


----------



## barbados

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed reading your last post, as it was refreshingly honest. I don't think the feelings you are having about having a hard time dealing with women having "pasts" is uncommon.


----------



## Hardtohandle

11/23/13 Saturday..

Just broke up with the current GF ( number 2 ).. 

I couldn't handle the Beta orbiters she had.. Everything I read says I should, but I couldn't.. 

I felt she was using it as a weapon against me.. Basically a carrot to let me know at any moment she can have someone.. 

I don't know.. It could be me as well. 

I'm sad and angry.. 

I'm not going into the great detail right now.. I'm just tired and really don't give a sh1t anymore.. Being alone seems like the best thing for me right now and maybe forever..


----------



## LostViking

Hard, there is nothing wrong with respecting yourself and refusing to take sh!t from a game player. You did good. You followed your gut and you did what a self respecting man should do. 

Go completely dark on her. Do not call or text her. I guarantee in a few weeks she will be back knocking on your door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle

LostViking said:


> Hard, there is nothing wrong with respecting yourself and refusing to take sh!t from a game player. You did good. You followed your gut and you did what a self respecting man should do.
> 
> Go completely dark on her. Do not call or text her. I guarantee in a few weeks she will be back knocking on your door.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The minute she noticed I deleted her from facebook and changed my profile pic that was me and her.. She called to work things out..

We fought some more.. But today she did something to try to hurt me and then actually confessed about it.. She felt bad and explained to me why she did it and expressed remorse.. 

Nutshell her words were I don't know why I try to push you away when I love you so much.. She got emotional .. 

Its funny to see her be jealous of me.. I have NEVER been a player in my entire life.. I dated 2 woman for 5 days about 20 years ago and I couldn't handle the pressure.. I cut the other one loose to marry who is soon to be my EX wife..

Nonetheless taking it slow again and we will see.. I do see and agree with what she says about me being so quick to cut someone loose.. 

I do have a jealousy issue that I am trying to tame.. 

She was a bartender in many popular places in the city.. Many famous people, especially musicians went to these places.. She hooked up with a few.. We are talking 20 years ago. But it stills hooks me.. I try to play it off as being okay, but it bothers me. She can see it. I know its RETARDED... RETARDED I TELL YOU.. I get it was 20 YEARS AGO.... I think I have become insane..


----------



## LostViking

If you have jealousy issues, get into some IC about this and deal with it. That's your issue. 

But her doing something to deliberately hurt you? More game playing. 

This woman is not a keeper in my opinion. She learned a lot of bad habits during her years as a bartender and sometime-groupie. What you consider jealousy may in fact be your gut telling you to stay the hell away from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jack.c

jealousy is a consequence of no-trust!
She gave you every reason to be so, therforth I dont see any isues.... exept being self-protected


----------



## LostViking

Her getting bent out of shape just because you took her off your Facebook page tells me two things:

1). She is immature for something so trivial to set her off. 

2). She has control issues. She uses your jealousy to control you. Big, BIG red flag!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I'm having a real hard time dealing with it*



LostViking said:


> Her getting bent out of shape just because you took her off your Facebook page tells me two things:
> 
> 1). She is immature for something so trivial to set her off.
> 
> 2). She has control issues. She uses your jealousy to control you. Big, BIG red flag!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the interest of fairness allow me to offer an alternate viewpoint. Women love Facebook and women are very much about social status. By taking her off his Facebook page he hit her in both of those ways. And all women use men's jealousy at least in some small ways in order to exert influence. But maybe this was her epiphany. It may seem trivial to us but it could be the one event that causes her to see in gory details what exactly she is losing. Just an alternative thought.


----------



## barbados

Hardtohandle said:


> She was a bartender in many popular places in the city.. Many famous people, especially musicians went to these places.. She hooked up with a few.. We are talking 20 years ago. But it stills hooks me.. I try to play it off as being okay, but it bothers me. She can see it. I know its RETARDED... RETARDED I TELL YOU.. I get it was 20 YEARS AGO.... I think I have become insane..


Just my own humble opinion here, but I would steer clear of women bartenders. There is a reason they do / did that profession. Its action addictive and I feel it speaks to the person's personality. Not surprised you say she hooked up with guys while doing it, and also that she seems to like drama. They can be a lot of fun, but I wouldn't be with one long term. Again, just my opinion based of personal experience and also the situations of friends.


----------



## Hardtohandle

barbados said:


> Just my own humble opinion here, but I would steer clear of women bartenders. There is a reason they do / did that profession. Its action addictive and I feel it speaks to the person's personality. Not surprised you say she hooked up with guys while doing it, and also that she seems to like drama. They can be a lot of fun, but I wouldn't be with one long term. Again, just my opinion based of personal experience and also the situations of friends.


For clarity today she is a special ed teacher.. 

But from counseling what I have gleamed is she cares what other people think about her.. The opinions of others matter to her.. Whereas me I don't care.. I can change my FB image 100 times in a day.. I don't care about someone elses opinion for the most part. 

But we are having blow outs. 

I spoke to several close friends to relay the story thinking I might just be going nuts.. A friend of mine put it the best..

I know my wife fvcked other people before me, but I don't want to know who they are.. Honestly I really don't.. I don't care WHO THEY ARE... 

You know to me I was starting to feel it was me.. I was just so screwed up I was going overboard..

What I come to find out is her Ex husband had issues with it and so did another boyfriend before me.. 

She said her husband had some gripes about it but nothing like I did.. Her EX boyfriend had more gripes then the husband but not as much as I did.. 

I explained it like this..

1. Your husband didn't have much choice in the end because he was your husband.. He wasn't just going to divorce you.. You were married and he dealt with it the best he could.

2. Your Ex Boyfriend was cheating on his wife with you so he really didn't have a leg to stand on and say a word about it.

3. I have trust issues.. I know it.. I am trying my best to deal with it. I got to counseling every week to work on this stuff. BUT it seems you are too blind or obtuse to see how wrong this is.. 

I can't imagine that 3 men in your life all suffer from the same issue.. 

I asked her flat out if I had coffee with a woman who wanted to fvck me but I turned her down, would she feel okay with it. 

She flat out said no.. 

So I said what is the difference between me and you.. 

She says I know myself and I wouldn't do anything. But you are a man and men have no self control.. 

I laughed at it and called her a cake eater and a woman of double standards.. Don't do as I do, do as I say..

I'm trying to work this out for the sake of the feels we have for each other.. I don't want to lose something that could potentially be good because of my issues and hers as well..

Once had her in the corner and showed her, she really had no choice but to concede to her double standard.. 

I told her I feel like I am fighting for first place among all these men.. I am not doing it anymore.. 

You make the choice, its me or these so called friends.. But don't tell me I'm nuts or wrong when 2 other men before me had similar gripes.. 

Granted mine are stronger because of some issues but it doesn't make it less valid.. I'm just more hyper-aware than they might have been at the time..

I ended up leaving her apt that night after a botched love making session.. 

She is suppose to come over today ( thanksgiving ) with her kids, but I'm at the point where I don't think I even want her here.. 

She texted she wanted to come over and forget last night, but I honestly don't know.. 

I am starting to get to the point I was with my Ex wife.. which is the following...

I didn't want my Ex wife to leave until finally I wanted her to go and couldn't wait for her to leave.. 

Right now I am at that cusp.. The top of the hill almost.. 

She told me give her a week and if she brings it up again then I can make my choice.. I told her if she brings up these male friends again to me she pretty much is telling me she wants this relationship to be done.. 

I part of me thinks we just hit a crazy emotional patch and need to try to figure it out..

Let see what happens..

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here on TAM


----------



## LostViking

Your gut is screaming at you to break it off with this woman. 

The only things you know about her ex-husband and ex-boyfriend are what she told you. I'll bet if you were to buy one of these guys a beer, sit down with them and chat, he would tell you a very different story of your girlfriend's past. 

She needs the constant, daily validation of multiple men to bolster her ego and make her feel desired and valued. She seems to lack the ability to validate herself. This is a very common trait among cheaters of both sexes.

Trust your gut. It's screaming at you to flee for your life.


----------



## BobSimmons

Hardtohandle said:


> 11/23/13 Saturday..
> 
> Just broke up with the current GF ( number 2 )..
> 
> I couldn't handle the Beta orbiters she had.. Everything I read says I should, but I couldn't..
> 
> I felt she was using it as a weapon against me.. Basically a carrot to let me know at any moment she can have someone..
> 
> I don't know.. It could be me as well.
> 
> I'm sad and angry..
> 
> I'm not going into the great detail right now.. I'm just tired and really don't give a sh1t anymore.. Being alone seems like the best thing for me right now and maybe forever..


Ahh like the matrix red pill, being cheated on open your eyes to the realities of the world.

Would I be remiss to say had you met this woman before your ex you would have dealt with the situation differently?

I find I now take zero sh*t from anybody. Any red flag that so much as peeps above the parapet, I'm pressing the passenger ejector seat and away they go.

This is the new you. Your new sensitivity to BS will serve you well.


----------



## illwill

Learn from the pain of your marriage. The signs your wife was a cheater were there. You ignored them. Never again.


----------



## BobSimmons

Hardtohandle said:


> For clarity today she is a special ed teacher..
> 
> But from counseling what I have gleamed is she cares what other people think about her.. The opinions of others matter to her.. Whereas me I don't care.. I can change my FB image 100 times in a day.. I don't care about someone elses opinion for the most part.
> 
> But we are having blow outs.
> 
> I spoke to several close friends to relay the story thinking I might just be going nuts.. A friend of mine put it the best..
> 
> I know my wife fvcked other people before me, but I don't want to know who they are.. Honestly I really don't.. I don't care WHO THEY ARE...
> 
> You know to me I was starting to feel it was me.. I was just so screwed up I was going overboard..
> 
> What I come to find out is her Ex husband had issues with it and so did another boyfriend before me..
> 
> She said her husband had some gripes about it but nothing like I did.. Her EX boyfriend had more gripes then the husband but not as much as I did..
> 
> I explained it like this..
> 
> 1. Your husband didn't have much choice in the end because he was your husband.. He wasn't just going to divorce you.. You were married and he dealt with it the best he could.
> 
> 2. Your Ex Boyfriend was cheating on his wife with you so he really didn't have a leg to stand on and say a word about it.
> 
> 3. I have trust issues.. I know it.. I am trying my best to deal with it. I got to counseling every week to work on this stuff. BUT it seems you are too blind or obtuse to see how wrong this is..
> 
> I can't imagine that 3 men in your life all suffer from the same issue..
> 
> I asked her flat out if I had coffee with a woman who wanted to fvck me but I turned her down, would she feel okay with it.
> 
> She flat out said no..
> 
> So I said what is the difference between me and you..
> 
> She says I know myself and I wouldn't do anything. But you are a man and men have no self control..
> 
> I laughed at it and called her a cake eater and a woman of double standards.. Don't do as I do, do as I say..
> 
> I'm trying to work this out for the sake of the feels we have for each other.. *I don't want to lose something that could potentially be good because of my issues and hers as well..*
> 
> Once had her in the corner and showed her, she really had no choice but to concede to her double standard..
> 
> I told her I feel like I am fighting for first place among all these men.. I am not doing it anymore..
> 
> You make the choice, its me or these so called friends.. But don't tell me I'm nuts or wrong when 2 other men before me had similar gripes..
> 
> Granted mine are stronger because of some issues but it doesn't make it less valid.. I'm just more hyper-aware than they might have been at the time..
> 
> I ended up leaving her apt that night after a botched love making session..
> 
> She is suppose to come over today ( thanksgiving ) with her kids, but I'm at the point where I don't think I even want her here..
> 
> She texted she wanted to come over and forget last night, but I honestly don't know..
> 
> I am starting to get to the point I was with my Ex wife.. which is the following...
> 
> I didn't want my Ex wife to leave until finally I wanted her to go and couldn't wait for her to leave..
> 
> Right now I am at that cusp.. The top of the hill almost..
> 
> She told me give her a week and if she brings it up again then I can make my choice.. I told her if she brings up these male friends again to me she pretty much is telling me she wants this relationship to be done..
> 
> I part of me thinks we just hit a crazy emotional patch and need to try to figure it out..
> 
> Let see what happens..
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here on TAM


*screech* STOP! HALT!

*You dont want to lose*..that statement right there jumped out. It's not yours to try and control or lose. There are serious issues here, just because something "feels" good or just because you've found yourself with someone and want to make it work just because it could be "potentially" good is the wrong way to go about it. It's being co-dependent. 

A relationship should be two people meeting, discovering each other, enjoying their company. Zero drama and zero trust issues.
The fact you're walking into another relationship with a woman with baggage, arguing over her ex and friendships with men that may want to bang her, the fact that she arguing the fact to remain friends with these guys, the fact she slept with a MM *You're a betrayed spouse, how does that sit well with you?*

You seem to be a nice guy. But you need to respect yourself before others can respect you. 

You seem to be playing happy families just for the sake of it. Don't mean to be harsh, but you need to break it off with this woman. You owe her and her kids nothing. This relationship seems already toxic. 

Haven't you had enough drama in your life?


----------



## warlock07

She was in a relationship with a married man ?

Your SO picker is broken...


----------



## Row Jimmy

You went through a massive betrayal that had to mess up your confidence as well as your ability to trust and you are likely still reeling inside from it. Perhaps you need to take more time to be on your own and not be looking for anyone else to make your life complete. 

Choosing a woman who slept with married people and doesn't see anything wrong with "orbiting" male friends clearly isn't the woman for you, especially at this point in your life. Why on earth would you choose to hitch your self to that drama and uncertainty as she thrives on the admiration which is absolute and serious danger?

Stick with the IC and learn to be comfortable on your own. Perhaps casually date if you need the companionship but don't choose to be serious or exclusive for a year or so in order to give yourself a well deserved rest and some time to heal. 

Make your life a drama free zone and find happiness within yourself and with your kids. 

Best of luck


----------



## Hardtohandle

I am poor at expressing myself sometimes in writing, especially when I am upset it seems..

Let me expand on the married man thing quickly.. 

As I am told by her.. She didn't know he was married and broke it off after she did.. She admits that was her "rebound" and just didn't see the signs.. 

She further states they didn't see each other much as she was usually is very controlling.. From what she explains she might have seen other men she was dating once a week or once every 2 weeks. She was picky like that and sort of admits she just would push people away from her. Basically she wasn't in the mood go to out or entertain a relationship..

From what I can gleen from what she tells me. Her past relationships went this way..

She would tell the boyfriend on Friday, will see you Saturday night and then on Saturday afternoon cancel and hang out at home with her kids..

From what she tells me she did this a lot and to the point they would get very upset.. Which is understandable.

She is, or was big on telling me how she has never done the things she does for me with another man.. How good she is, How she is always looking to make time for me.. 

I shoot her down quickly by telling her, what you want praise for is done by us normal people all the time.. You are not doing anything special that any woman before you hasn't done for me without looking for praise.. I in turn have done the same for woman I have been with.. Its what us normal people do in a relationship.. We give ourselves to each other.. 

This might sound retarded but part of me truly believes she just does not know how to handle these feelings for me.. It is like she is fighting with herself to gain some sort of control. She feels I am c0cky and full of myself because I know how she feels and that I can do whatever I want knowing she will take me back or not let me go.. 

As for me not wanting to lose this part..

Look I know I have issues.. My STBXW was my rebound from my first marriage.. Granted I don't even count that marriage because we were married 1 year and that Ex proposed to me after 3 months of dating.. Yes she proposed to me.. It was odd and I can completely understand how girls feel when it happens to them.. We were young and nuts.. 

Nonetheless I met my 2nd and soon to be Ex #2, 2 months leaving wife #1.. We were together for 19 years.. Not bad for a rebound right.

Look I understand, but nothing is going to be perfect.. 

I have a friend of mine that has been divorced for a while now, about 5 years all together.. He tells me the same.. No one is going to be perfect.. No one will be a saint and everyone makes mistakes.. 

My thoughts are sometimes things get jumbled up and crazy.. You just don't cast aside someone because of some issues. 

If I am going to cut her loose then I want to do it with a clear mind. Not being upset and pissed.. 

------------------------

On another note, we had yet another discussion about some of this stuff after I brought her home after thanksgiving dinner at my home, which btw was great..

What I can tell you is this without going through the long drawn out story for you..

She foolishly made a comment that I am not committed but instead calculating. That I know she has a good job and makes good money and that I know she is head over heels for me. So its a easy choice, but I don't really love her and just waiting for the right person to come along and that I am just stringing her along until that day.

Nutshell I explained to her how calculating I could be and what choices I had along with what a great catch I was for any woman.. 

For the first time I can tell you she really realized how serious I was and she could see it in my face I was done.. 

I in turn could see the color literally wash out of her face as I told her a few things.. 

It was pretty much "I'm walking out this door and never seeing you again".. It wasn't a big fight.. It was me just telling her if she wanted a relationship and understood what it really meant to be in one give me a call. But that I wasn't standing still and I was moving forward.. If I was available then fine, I would give this another go, MAYBE. 
Otherwise I'm sorry have a nice life I wasn't dropping one woman for another. 

The advantage I have is she knows I am a one woman man.. 

She knows that every woman I have been with ever has had some sort of love or very strong feelings for me. That for the most part my relationships last months and not days or weeks.

This time around I actually showed her pictures of woman and made it clear that these women were interested in dating me. She knew that these women had some advantages on her. Either no children, or knew me for a long time, ETC.. 

I scared her so much that she still is trying to subtilely convince me that she is the right woman for me.

Making comments like, you know I went out with you because you have kids and get it.. People with no kids don't get us.. I would cook for your kids.. I would treat them like they were my own. I have a friend that was married to a man with kids.. She treated them differently from her own.. I could never do that..

I in turn again called her out on those comments.. I told her straight out, I know why she is saying that stuff. 

She admitted wholeheartedly I scared her... 

Totally different friday that is for sure..

Let see how Saturday goes..


----------



## manticore

Wow man, dont take me wrong but it looks like you like women who brings drama in your life.

First GF after your wife for what I read was supportive and understanding of your needs, she accepted your circumstances, you had mutual friends who spoke high of her, you said she was more attractive than your wife and she did not seem to care for money and you cut her off with out second chances.

In the other hand this one have a past involving a lot of men (for the bartender hook ups), she seem to be co-dependent, she had no problem dating a married guy (she did not verify his story, so maybe is easily fooled or manipulated), she have tried to maniputale you many times, she seems to be a multi-dater, and she have problems with boundaries and you are still considering continuing the relationship.

for what you say about how easily you enter in relationships, it seems that passion and drama are factors that draw you to women, maybe you also have a little of saving prince complex in you (you like to try to protect and save women with difficult circumstances), I know you have already reflected in your relationship's pattern but maybe you shouold also check what make you feel attracted to these women in the long term.


----------



## illwill

Therapy.


----------



## LostViking

H2H, you wrote this back in March about your XWW: 



> I can clearly relate to you. ATM and for the last 3 months my wife has had an apartment with her OM that she goes to every day then comes home to sleep on the couch. She only takes one of my 2 sons there because the oldest does not want to go there. While my youngest plays Xbox she will go into the bed room on occasions and have sex with the OM.
> How do I know ? My youngest tells the oldest.
> 
> After 19 years this is what my marriage and STBXW has come relegated herself to. I have learned the hard way never to underestimate anyone else ever again


I agree with many here. You actively seek out broken women who bring drama and discord into your life.


----------



## aug

He's a detective. Drama is his life.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I'm having a real hard time dealing with it*



aug said:


> He's a detective. Drama is his life.


Lol


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I don't know if he actively seeks it out, but drama does seem to have a way of finding him.


----------



## soccermom2three

Your girlfriend reminds of my SIL. She blames the men in her life of having trust and jealousy issues yet her actions don't garner trust. She doesn't realize she's the common denominator in her relationship failures. It's always someone else.


----------



## Hardtohandle

aug said:


> He's a detective. Drama is his life.


Even I LOLed.. If you can't laugh at yourself right.

I am honestly looking to figure this out myself.. Poor picker, Me fvcking **** up and picking fights.. I don't have a clue anymore..

But this isn't an issues with her anymore as we are done.. 

I'm just starting to think its me and I am going to destroy so many good people. 

I know she is crushed and she broke it off with me crying.. 

I just feel like sh1t and I don't want to feel like this anymore.. I have too much going on and I need to be solid for my 2 boys that need me and are with me full time..

Even my 13 year old son notices I'm bummed out. 

This is bad..


----------



## missthelove2013

warlock07 said:


> she was in a relationship with a married man ?
> 
> Your so picker is broken...


this...100%...


----------



## Hardtohandle

missthelove2013 said:


> this...100%...


Its a moot point at this time but if I go on what she has told me she didn't know at the time.. The relationship was terminated as soon as it was discovered. 

In the end she told me something she didn't have to tell me knowing my situation. I have to believe what she tells me as the truth unless otherwise verified. Otherwise I will go the rest of my life mistrusting every woman and looking at them with a crooked eye.. 

But regardless no one is perfect.. You're not going to meet anyone in their 40s that hasn't had some sort of life experiences or made some poor decisions.. 

Granted I never cheated on my wife but I neglected them in my own way.. Yea I didn't see it back then and I do now.. That is what therapy is for I guess, to point out the things you don't realize and understand. 

People fvck up.. Its what they do after they fvck up that matters sometimes.


----------



## Iver

Are you officially divorced yet? 

I know you are in the home stretch but not sure if you crossed the finish line yet.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Iver said:


> Are you officially divorced yet?
> 
> I know you are in the home stretch but not sure if you crossed the finish line yet.


Its in front of the judge.. I'm being told few weeks..


----------



## Hardtohandle

2galsmom said:


> Look, I can speak on this topic. Try therapy or something to see why aside from the detective aspect and love of drama, you keep seeking relationships with this kind of destructive woman.
> 
> Yes these women were horrible to you, but you allowed the horrible for a while ( don't get pissed I did it as well thus I know), why did you tolerate it and why oh why do you keep gravitating towards it? The questions are not always easily answered but if I were you I would put my detective skills to use there.
> 
> Soccermom2three is right, this last one was demanding your trust and then doing things to undermine it, "I can have any man I want HTH, there are men out there now after me etc etc."
> 
> Good bye goddess.


I'm trying to figure it out myself.. 

I've been in therapy for about 1 year.. 

Therapist also said about me needing relationships.. It was one of those, I would rather you be alone but you got into this so now we need to deal with it.. 

I'm not going to pursue this and let it fall where it goes.. 

I can't even explain what the fights were about.. It just got out of control and we both became as$es failing to learn when to stop and just let it go. Maybe a bit more on my part. 

Therapist tells me, he likes that I am not taking any sh1t anymore. But I might be a bit too aggressive about it. 
What I should have done with my Ex I am doing now.. Lessons learned in life.. 

I tell you beyond the affair issues of every 5 years me and the ex had little drama.. Granted I think those incidents gave us more than enough drama.. But we just jelled for the most part. 

I was so bent out of shape over this last night that I started rationalizing that being with the devil you know might be better than the devil you don't.. I started thinking I would just live my life and just wait for my wife to wake up and then slowly work it out with her as she is the mother of my kids and we have a long relationship together. 

I realized I wasn't thinking right.. 

I just never thought I would be so messed up honestly...


----------



## happyman64

> I just never thought I would be so messed up honestly...


How the hell could you not be damaged???

Every infidelity, every lie is like getting hit by a bullet. Even if only grazed you know a traumatic event occurred that will affect you for life.

Heal. Focus on you.

Let the wounds close then look for a good woman that has high self esteem and knows what she wants.

You!

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

I have zero patience.. Its obvious..

Even my 80 year old mom tells me to lay low and go away with the kids for a bit..

Even she is telling me to heal first before I try to find someone else..


----------



## barbados

Listen to mom


----------



## Hardtohandle

12/18/13 Wed..


Learned a lot in 12 months and will learn some more I would guess as time goes on.

I am starting to think that my marriage and relationship with my wife might have been skewed, sort of like a person raised in a home with domestic violence thinks its okay to be hit or hit their spouse. 

I had a 2 hour session with the therapist.. It was basically him telling me to STFU when it came to dealing with the G.F... I see what he is saying and understand, just sometimes I get upset and my mouth gets the better of me. 

Being a cop I am quick with the sarcasm and wise a$$ remarks. The job environment is filled with guys finding out your weaknesses and attacking them, so I tend to bring this home as well. I've been told I'm not one of your cop buddies so don't talk to me that way. 

Again I am learning. 

I learned that jealousy in a relationship is actually fear of losing someone. I used to think it was wanting what the other person had. That I learned is Envy.. 

I learned to treat my G.F. Jealous with Love.. The therapist kept telling me but I honestly kept forgetting.. She would push my buttons and I would attack back.. 

But now when she gets this way I tell her I love her and I am here for her.. It works.. Something so simple and it works.. It cut out 50% of the silly fights.. The other 50% is me learning to STFU.. Might even be 40/60 in her favor..

I am really hung up on a persons ( woman in my case ) past.. 

I think I have been so square in my relationships that I just don't know any better. 

I never multidated, all my relationships where long term. Everyone I have been with dealt with some form of love in the relationship. 

Again I think I'm just square when it comes to my thoughts about how a relationship should be.. 

Again I am learning to make some modifications for my own sake in this department.

My Ex agreed or conceded that I shouldn't have to pay child support and that I should have primary residential custody of our youngest 8 year old boy. 

So that is good as I literally walk away with full pension. No child support and my 2 boys. I lose 55k, but its nothing in the grand scheme of things.

She doesn't get it that one this is all documented, there is no way for her to ever get the kids back. She just can't walk into court and say I would like my boys with me without some extreme valid reason, which she will never have and I will never fail to give her that chance. 

My friends and even I have sort of thought about this. We all believed or believed at one point, once she gets her 55k that she might just up and leave the kids.. Part of it is a bit shocking, but seeing how things are going I wouldn't be surprised.. 

Even here on TAM I sort of feel like I am alone in this boat for this type of situation. I haven't read any stories where the mother abandons 1 of two children or both or all. 

But I have to say things are good despite all this craziness. 

Lets see how the next few months pan out. 

Happy holidays and merry Xmas.. Be safe and try to be happy.


----------



## Hardtohandle

12/21/13 Saturday

Got the notarized letter from the Ex.. 

Which means after leaving in April 2013 my Ex of 19 years ( 14 married ) Walked away with a total of 55k, that is it...

In March I will petition for child support once this phase is done.. 

I will ask for a lump sum of 40k with no more support requested ever or I will trickle that money away from her slowly.. 

Lets see how this goes...


----------



## walkonmars

Hardtohandle said:


> 12/21/13 Saturday
> 
> Got the notarized letter from the Ex..
> 
> Which means after leaving in April 2013 my Ex of 19 years ( 14 married ) Walked away with a total of 55k, that is it...
> 
> In March I will petition for child support once this phase is done..
> 
> I will ask for a lump sum of 40k with no more support requested ever or I will trickle that money away from her slowly..
> 
> Lets see how this goes...


The worm has turned!! :smthumbup:

Merry christmas

It's gonna be a great new year for you.


----------



## Hardtohandle

walkonmars said:


> The worm has turned!! :smthumbup:
> 
> Merry christmas
> 
> It's gonna be a great new year for you.


Thanks Walk.. 

You were one of the first pointing me in the right direction.. Couldn't have gotten here without you..


----------



## LongWalk

There are other threads in which WAW dumped their children. It's usually a sign of personality disorder


----------



## manticore

Hardtohandle said:


> Even here on TAM I sort of feel like I am alone in this boat for this type of situation. I haven't read any stories where the mother abandons 1 of two children or both or all.


I think the user "whyeme" is going through something similar now with her D11, the mother at the beginning tried also to convince her how good OM was and how she left her father because the didn't love each other and that it was not cheating, just like your oldest son she did not belive a sh*t, and in looks like in recent post the STBXW is also detaching from her daughter.


the biggest difference is that the daughter reached a point where she also want nothing to do with her mother (she also in the beggining told her mother that if she left POSOM they could have a good relationship but now it looks like she want not even see her once a week)


----------



## Hardtohandle

How do I find out I am officially divorced ??

My Ex-wife ( officially now ) calls me up this morning and tells me my lawyer has not filed the proper paperwork for her to get the 55,000 dollars.. 

I ask her why is she down at the clerk office and she tells me we are divorced and I am here to get my money.. 

I of course did not get any information and yet to have received any documents.. Who knows.. 

But I just found it so odd since I think the last time we spoke a word to each other was about maybe 6 months ago ? Not sure.. 

But she hasn't spoken to my son since April 2013.. 

Great to see she still has her priorities straight..


----------



## LongWalk

Hang in there. Do you get much support from colleagues?


----------



## happyman64

What a disappointment she has turned out to be......


----------



## Hardtohandle

LongWalk said:


> Hang in there. Do you get much support from colleagues?


Yes I have been very fortunate in that department.. 

Because of TAM, Co workers ( which are friends ) and friends at home and my small but supportive family ( only mom and brother ) I've been able to move on quickly from all of this..

I still have some anger issues and trust issues but I zero concern for my ex and don't pine for her at all.


----------



## tom67

Look up the clerk of the court's web site in your county and look up your case.
Hopefully the docket is current.


----------



## Hardtohandle

tom67 said:


> Look up the clerk of the court's web site in your county and look up your case.
> Hopefully the docket is current.


Called the Lawyer.. Spent 7k on this. figured he should do his job..

I don't care about her money as I know she will get it.. Its in the paperwork I seen the domestic relation order listing out the money.. 

I need to file some paperwork myself to stop child support and change primary residence for my youngest. Even though I have notarized letter from the ex giving up child support and primary residence of my youngest I need to get it legally done..

Once that is done I am going to file for child support myself.. But I do not want to mix those two together..


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/14/14 Valentines Day..

Current but Ex GF was lying to me about still talking with her "guy friends", By guy friends I mean guys that want to fvck her.. 

I told her a while a go I would not tolerate being 2nd place to these guys.. She has lost and fought with other men in the past over the same thing.. Nonetheless I broke it off.. I just don't trust her anymore..


----------



## Chuck71

and updates? if you started new thread, my apologies


----------



## Hardtohandle

Chuck71 said:


> and updates? if you started new thread, my apologies


Here is the update..

I was officially divorced in February 2014.. She walked away with 55k.. 

In December she gave me a notarized letter stating I don't have to pay child support as of January 2014 and that my youngest has been living with me for the whole year of 2013 and will continue to keep my residence as a primary residence.. I need to bring that into court and make it official. 

Girlfriend wise.. We made up but broke up I think finally for good several days ago.. 

I love her but she broke my trust yet again and I refuse deal with it.. Its just too much for me.. 

She is the kind of girl that wore the mini skirt and studded bra at the rock club 20 years ago.. In many ways she is still the same way.. 

She is attractive and I get it, but she just told me too much.. I told her once.. "Look, when someone hits on you enjoy it.. But it's personal, gloat inside and feel good. You should, you're a beautiful woman. But I don't need to know it."

She didn't get it. She goes to the extreme and responds " Okay, I just won't tell you anything. I'm sorry I love you and just want to tell you everything" 

Nonetheless she broke my trust and I am having a hard time dealing with it so I cut her loose. Blocked her number for a few days so she couldn't reach me and then deleted the contact completely.

Nonetheless I am going to be single for a while.. I have a knot in my chest and I hate this feeling.. I just cannot handle these types of things anymore. I truly am a broken man. 

I wish I was stronger, but I am not.

I continue therapy every monday to sort all this stuff out still. 

Just bummed out right now. I am starting to feel that anyone I meet will be crazy.. That no one has any sort of morals anymore. 

I don't have the stomach for FWB. It just isn't me.. I'm just a square guy that wants one faithful sane woman to spend the rest of his life with..

I have trust issues but nothing like 
where are you ? 
What are you doing ? 
Who are you with ? 
who was that voice in the background ?

But the Detective does come out in me and sadly it has served me well..


----------



## Ripper

That all sucks. At least you get to keep your place and no CS.

Sounds like your ex-girlfriend was a carousel rider for years and you just couldn't morally reconcile with that. 

For your age group the odds of finding a "westernized" partner without a double digit notch count are pretty slim. You might want to try looking outside the country.

Not trying to start a gender flame war, just personal opinions.


----------



## convert

Hardtohandle said:


> Here is the update..
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just a square guy that wants one faithful sane woman to spend the rest of his life with..
> 
> 
> 
> But the Detective does come out in me and sadly it has served me well..


 WOW sane and faithful, yes that would be nice

don't set the bar to high


----------



## happyman64

> Nonetheless she broke my trust and I am having a hard time dealing with it *so I cut her loose*.* Blocked her number* for a few days so she couldn't reach me and then *deleted the contact completely.*
> 
> Nonetheless I am going to be single for a while.. *I have a knot in my chest and I hate this feeling.. *I just cannot handle these types of things anymore. I truly am a broken man.


H2H

Please look at the bolded items in the 1st paragraph.

Those are the actions of a strong man. You did something that you did not want to do.

But you had to do it.

You are not broken. You are just on the mend my friend. It takes time to heal.

And to be honest, your wife put you through the grinder.

So you have a knot in your chest. You lost your wife. You lost your GF.

So of course your heart hurts.

But I am sure the feeling in your gut told your head that you need to do this. They were not trustworthy.

So take all the time you need. And believe it or not there are good women out there with values. That when they date it does not mean a "FWB" relationship with every Tom, **** or harry.

You just need to find a mature women, with high self esteem that wants an honest relationship.

Keep looking as you toughen up.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

> She is attractive and I get it, but she just told me too much.. I told her once.. "Look, when someone hits on you enjoy it.. But it's personal, gloat inside and feel good. You should, you're a beautiful woman. But I don't need to know it."
> 
> She didn't get it. She goes to the extreme and responds " Okay, I just won't tell you anything. I'm sorry I love you and just want to tell you everything"


From an evolutionary point of view women want to attract the maximum number of desirable men and select one to be the exclusive mate. After all women cannot very easily be pregnant with twins fathered by two different fathers. Could happen. Must be fun when it does:lol:

The instinctual desire to limit the number of sex partners comes up in a woman's thoughts. She wants to convince herself that she is not promiscuous to the extent that it damages her prospects of LTR. I remember women who were in love with me telling me about past partners. It is as if women want to confess (some part) to gain trust.

So, this girlfriend who unloaded all this information was actually trying to do a PR job on her history. You didn't find it convincing.

The most important thing is to judge a behavior. What people say is of course important but you need to check the two.

Did that girlfriend cook you nice meals. Smile warmly when you met? Did she show up on time for dates? Was she reliable? Was she secure in herself?

I gather that your gut warned you that she was not. That doesn't mean she was bad person. You just were unwilling to expend emotional capital because she was not promising.


----------



## Chaparral

Maybe you should expand your search area. Political groups, churches(some big churches have singles groups), volunteer, dance class, , someone mentioned yoga because of the female male ratio.

Non cheating women outnumber cheating women three to one. They are out there.

Someday you will thank God your wife is gone. She is a serial cheater. There were no doubt men you never found out about.

The worst place to look for a quality woman is out drinking btw. Lol

Good luck, read MMSLP and live by it.


----------



## Ripper

Chaparral said:


> Maybe you should expand your search area. Political groups, churches(some big churches have singles groups), volunteer, dance class, , someone mentioned yoga because of the female male ratio.
> 
> Non cheating women outnumber cheating women three to one. They are out there.
> 
> Someday you will thank God your wife is gone. She is a serial cheater. There were no doubt men you never found out about.
> 
> The worst place to look for a quality woman is out drinking btw. Lol
> 
> Good luck, read MMSLP and live by it.


Agree with all of this.

Just keep your shields up if you are looking for a church woman. Many of them are "born again" or "reformed".


----------



## BobSimmons

Hardtohandle said:


> I'm just a square guy that wants one faithful sane woman to spend the rest of his life with..
> 
> I have trust issues but nothing like
> where are you ?
> What are you doing ?
> Who are you with ?
> who was that voice in the background ?
> 
> But the Detective does come out in me and sadly it has served me well..


Ahh...by the way, what the heck do you have to feel sad about?

Square guy that wants commitment? Then you wait for it and more power to you for that.

You've already witnessed first hand the devastation that leaping recklessly from one relationship to another without being honest to oneself and to others. If more people were careful, honest and waited for the right one this forum would have half the number of broken-hearted trying to mend their lives.

Unfortunately being a betrayed partner or spouse means the radar will always be on, these are the hard lessons we learn. Life has absolute truths we naively ignore at first. Betrayal opens ears and ears.

While you may feel sad about your girlfriend, you had the n*ts to end it before more heartache occurred down the road. You put that hammer down man, before, maybe you would have hung around, tried to be nice about it, understanding and one night when she's out, seeing she seems to need this constant validation from men, she would have let her guard down and well..you already know the rest..or maybe that wouldn't happen

but do you really want to live your life wondering what she's up to, where she is etc? She seems to crave attention, you already recognize the attention you gave her was not enough..so never settle for less

Never settle to be treated less than you treat others. You want that compatible lady, then you go and get what you deserve and nothing less. Absolutely nothing less.


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> Maybe you should expand your search area. Political groups, churches(some big churches have singles groups), volunteer, dance class, , someone mentioned yoga because of the female male ratio.
> 
> Non cheating women outnumber cheating women three to one. They are out there.
> 
> Someday you will thank God your wife is gone. She is a serial cheater. There were no doubt men you never found out about.
> 
> The worst place to look for a quality woman is out drinking btw. Lol
> 
> Good luck, read MMSLP and live by it.


And church women too. Stay away from them. Major cheaters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

I met my wife at church. Then again I was inoculated from my first marriage. I think it improved my judgement immensely. But I am now totally convinced that infidelity is an epidemic. Today it seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a cheater.


----------



## Boricha

Read the whole thread in one sitting. Was I reading a novel or was this real life? 

I have to commend you, I think you are a great, honorable man. I can tell you truly loved your ex-wife. It was a double blow because you were willing to take her back even after the affair, but she refused.

Stay strong for your sons. You are all they have. It is obvious your ex-wife is not healthy enough to take care of them. Not many women would give up their kids that easily. I don't know how you do it working full time and having full custody except that you have no choice, just like me.

You need to let the anger go. I think it's futile and somewhat silly to be mad at someone for not wanting to be with you. It stings and it hurts and I am not justifying what she did, but she does not want to be with you. Even after 20 years. Move on.

Remember, she is the mother of your sons. She will one day hopefully will want to be a good mother to them. Your sons need her so it is in your best interest to want the best for her. I don't think you should go after her for child support. Do you really want her to crash and burn? For what? Do you want your sons' mother to be a broke living in a run down apartment? What would that say about you?

Your story resonates so much with me because I went through the same betrayal as you. But my child loves and needs her father. That is why I have chosen to forgive him and in a way want the best for him. 

It will take some time but I hope your wife will one day regain healthy relationship with your sons.


----------



## warlock07

I love her but she broke my trust yet again and I refuse deal with it.. Its just too much for me.. 


This one also cheated?


----------



## WhiteRaven

warlock07 said:


> I love her but she broke my trust yet again and I refuse deal with it.. Its just too much for me..
> 
> 
> This one also cheated?


This is bad. Real bad. HTH is still falling for the same type of women.


----------



## Chuck71

rid yourself of this behavior or you may repeat it


----------



## Hardtohandle

05/26/14 Monday..

9 months still with the same girl.. We have had our ups and downs.. I've gone through many emotional insecurities.. 

I always look back and I'm amazed how broken in many ways my Ex-wife made me. I was so laid back and easy.. Never Jealous or worried.. 

The therapist thought we would be done in months.. Still going strong a year later..

My biggest issue is plain out trusting.. My simple mindset is that if a man makes advances on my G.F. she will accept them and fvck them. It is more complex than that, but its is the nitty gritty crux of it at its base core.. 

The G.F. says why do you think of me so shallow and weak that I would just spread my legs open for anyone that gives me the time of day.. 

She even tells me straight out if I opened my legs for anyone that said hello I would never be able to get out of bed.. I get hit on 4 to 5 times a day.. 

Right now I am trying to eat some of craziness and basically ignore it. Otherwise this is never going to work with her or anyone for that matter. 

She is very good at expressing her love, she says the right words and is always quick to tell me how much I have HER wrapped around my finger.. That she would never have the strenght to break up with me. That she feels like she could never survive without me. That breaking up with me would be very traumatizing for her.. That she looks the other way when a man even walks by her not to make any sort of eye contact out of fear of upsetting me somehow.. 

But for some reason there are times all those words go in one ear and out the other.. I really do put the Detective hat on and even the therapist tells me I need to stop that.. I'm too grilling, even she tells me at times to stop interrogating her that she is not a bad guy and I am not at work.. That this is a relationship..

I'm working to be better, but sometimes I just forget and lose my mind with this stuff.. 

Its so retarded how me and my Ex just jelled with many things.. We were of similar mind, but in the end I think I see she just went with the punches and was waiting to leave.. When you're looking to leave, yesing someone to death seems like the smart thing to do.

I asked her on 4/24/14, a day before my oldest birthday what her intentions of seeing our oldest were.. She tried to make some excuse but I cut her down and she conceded it was just a poor excuse.. 

I asked her why she shut my son out.. 
She had no real answer beyond he doesn't want to speak with her. I told her I never told him not to speak with her and that I never tried to block him from her.. She understood and agreed.

I went over all the options I gave her of trying to see both her kids equally and she had no response why she didn't take any of them. If anyone goes back in my thread you will see I pretty much offered her everything under the sun to see the kids.. I even agreed to leave my house for alternating weekends so she could be their undisturbed.. She refused all sorted offers.

I did tell her we would never be good with each other until she apologised for how she left and what she did while waiting to leave.. 

Nutshell, she really remained quiet.. 

In the end the only time I seen any slight emotion was when I told her I didn't care if she never seen the kids or feil off the face of the earth.. That I was doing what a therapist requested me to do and try to fix this for my son.. That I am doing this for my son, but could care less.. She seemed to get a bit misty, but not crying.. 

In the end the next day she texted my son at 7AM happy birthday.. No gift.. No card.. 

I have my sons call the in-laws, but I started not talking much to them. It's just too much for me sometimes.. It reminds me too much of my Ex if you get what I mean.. I just want to disassociate from her completely..

They are going to come and visit the kids at the end of July.. I wonder how that is going to go.. It should be odd.. I can see my father-in-law crying when he see's me.. He is the emotional type.. They haven't see the kids in almost 2 years beyond pictures..

Currently my Ex works until about 6PM on Mondays so she picks up the youngest at 630 on Mondays from my house.. On Tuesdays she comes around 330 to pick him up.. My brother picks him up from school now as my Ex doesn't anymore.. 

My Ex started or has become a Para at the public schools for I would guess extra money and for health benefits.. Resulting that she could not pick up my son from school anymore or it was irregular and sporadic. In the end she just left it up to me to figure it out.. 

I called her out on that btw on 04/24.. She made it as if it was such a big deal she would have dealt with it.. I told her if it wasn't such a big deal then why didn't she just deal with it.. Why didn't she figure this out with her boyfriend at least on her 2 days a week ? She had no answers as I mentioned previously.

Part of me wishes things were more "normal" between me and her. But she wants to basically wants everyone to "forgive" her sins.. Basically we know you fvcked up but its okay we understand.. 

I just don't roll that way.. To me you need to take your beating and accept your mistakes.. Then move on from that point, both understanding that.. Her working to fix the relationship and me accepting the apology and allowing it to be fixed.. Right now she wants me to do the heavy lifting and I'm just not doing it.. I could and be the better person per say, but I just don't think its fair and right. To me its rewarding her actions..



Anyways I am looking to go to court to get my youngest officially on paper with me as the primary residence for him and to stop child support.. Its on a notarized letter which a few said was good enough, but I want it with the courts.. 

Once this is done then I will head back to court in a few months to request child support. I just want to let the ink dry on this stuff first.. 

If the Judge brings it up then I ask for it or accept it.. Here in New York I'm being told someone MUST pay child support even if its at the poverty level which is 25 a month per child.. Even people on public assistance get money removed from their checks for it.. 

End result even after its officially over, it's not over emotionally. 

I think Hollow by Submersed fits my feelings about this stuff.


----------



## happyman64

Hell of an update HTH. 

I do hope you fix your detective issues on your GF. 

Do the kids like your GF?
Does she like them?

HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

When it comes to things you can't change, you accept and move on.

You may never understand them, good bet she won't either.

When women spread for every guy that says "cute a$$," that is a 

sign of deep insecurities. She did not think men really liked her 

unless they mounted her. It's easy to have trust issues with new

g/f. But try not to condemn the people of your present and future

due to the sins committed by the people of your past.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Chuck71 said:


> try not to condemn the people of your present and future
> 
> due to the sins committed by the people of your past.


Chuck that is it in a nutshell.. That is my biggest issue and sadly it is pretty bad.. I am literally learning just to STFU and try to ignore the demons..



happyman64 said:


> Hell of an update HTH.
> 
> I do hope you fix your detective issues on your GF.
> 
> Do the kids like your GF?
> Does she like them?
> 
> HM
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know my oldest is indifferent.. As long as no one interrupt his gaming all is good. 

My youngest, he likes everyone.. He likes the other man.. So he is cool with everything.

The therapist gave me a book that we read about blended families and coping.. I have to say we were pretty much on point with the book. 

You know she is different in many ways but I think as much as it can drive me nuts sometimes, I think its good. I am very structured and she is very laid back.. I think I can drive my kids nuts sometimes.. 

We both have our own insecurities.. 

My biggest fear is going through this again.. I just don't want to be let down regardless that I know first hand I will survive it.. 

Its like a phobia at this point.. 

But I'm working through this.. I know my shortcomings and I am working on them. Which is much better than denying they even exist at all. 

I'm just amazed how much damage this sort of stuff does to a person's psyche. 

On one hand I have a woman expressing all sorts of love in many different ways to me. 
I can hear the sincerity in her voice.. 
I know she deals with my issues. 
I can see that their are times she calms me down like a kid.. Literally putting a hand on me and shushing me gently as she hugs me.. 
The words she says to me expressing her love, I've heard those words or similar because I expressed them to my Ex-wife before she left.. 

BUT

With all of that being said there are times I still reject her. Something makes me snap. Some insecurity just puts me off kilt.. 

Again I am working hard to keep myself in check and I just fail sometimes.. I just can't afford to keep failing for the sake of my relationship with this woman..


----------



## happyman64

Your GF sounds kind, compassionate and "knowing".

I hope you can get that strength and security back in trusting other people.

I totally understand where you are coming from.

The less contact you have with your Ex the better it will be for you. I know this is difficult with the kids.

Peace.

HM


----------



## Dyokemm

"She had no real answer beyond he doesn't want to speak with her. I told her I never told him not to speak with her and that I never tried to block him from her.. She understood and agreed."

Man...I hope she realizes she better step up here and do everything she can to repair her relationship with her son, or she is going to lose him forever.

My dad never forgave his mom and refused to even go to her deathbed.

She ran off with a POS when he was 2 and never tried to reach out to him til he was in his 20's...by that time the damage was irreparable.

I know from other family members that it COMPLETELY devastated my grandmother that my dad would never forgive her.

I hope your xWW wakes up soon so she doesn't have to experience that kind of pain.


----------



## Chuck71

children very often view their parents in a "God-like" way

when they are tossed aside for someone / something else

those children have long..... long memories

and unforgiving as a pit viper


----------



## Hardtohandle

Chuck71 said:


> children very often view their parents in a "God-like" way
> 
> when they are tossed aside for someone / something else
> 
> those children have long..... long memories
> 
> and unforgiving as a pit viper


I never forgave my dad when he left..


----------



## Hardtohandle

06/06/14 Friday

I got the order to show cause written up to stop the the child support and change primary residence for my youngest over to me. 

I have to say I am scared.. You hear and read so many crazy stories about judges attacking men in family court. I can't see what a judge could say or how something like this could be turned around, but you just never know with these things.. I've seen so much pretzel logic in the police department I take nothing for granted.


----------



## happyman64

Patience HTH.

Hopefully the judge will do the right thing and the process will go easily.

HM


----------



## Chuck71

Hardtohandle said:


> 06/06/14 Friday
> 
> I got the order to show cause written up to stop the the child support and change primary residence for my youngest over to me.
> 
> I have to say I am scared.. You hear and read so many crazy stories about judges attacking men in family court. I can't see what a judge could say or how something like this could be turned around, but you just never know with these things.. I've seen so much pretzel logic in the police department I take nothing for granted.


judges are lawyers with a clothing fetish, they have bosses too

I ran into one judge like you mentioned... my address changed

for a short time :rofl:

most judges though, can see who is doing their part


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/11/14 Friday


Okay here is my issue ( of many )


My in laws live in Florida and came in on Wednesday to NYC.. They are staying at a hotel. They have no car.

*BACK STORY*

For the last 12 years prior to my Divorce I would pick up my in laws at the train station every time they came in and they would stay with me every time. Just about every time one or both of my kids would come along to greet them. 

I had 2 cars so they would always use one to go drive around and meet old family and friends.
*
End of Back Story*

So this is the first time I will see them since the affair and divorce. 

My kids already asked the questions, when are we getting them, and why are they not here with us.

I did offer them before coming here the usual arraignment but they turned me down. I can understand as my mom lives downstairs from me and they would have to face her. I know it would be a bit rough for them under the circumstances. 


I had to explain to the kids why they are not staying over the house. My oldest understood and I know my youngest wanted to understand but I don't know if he actually gets it all yet..

But I could see the disappointment on their face.. 

The other thing that they figured out ( which I did as well ) was that they came in on Wednesday and we will only see them Saturday night for dinner. My oldest said *"so we only see them for a few hours ?"*

For me all this is doing is opening up old wounds.. I would like to bring my Girl Friend out with us to dinner but part of me feels like I am tossing this in their face and I want to give them some time with their grandkids. 

But also I see no reason why I need to feel like I am hiding my life from them and if they really wanted to see their grandkids they would spend more time with them.

My oldest realized that they will spend more time with her *(her meaning his grandmother)* sister and family then with us. Since we only see them Saturday night, what will they do Thursday, Friday and Sunday. 

They leave on Monday..

Sunday usually my Father in law would cook a Sunday italian dinner. 

I think I might ask them if they minded if the G.F. came along and also to have dinner on Sunday with us like we used to. 

My mother in law *(ex mother in law ?)* is pretty straight forward and would tell me if having the G.F. come would be an issue. Or if Sunday dinner would be an issue. 

Personally I think because of their age and for many other reasons this will probably be the last time they come to visit us anyways.. Again I think this is something that is just fizzling out and will just fade away. 

I was already told in the past why didn't I call them for 2 weeks and to me I feel your the grandparent you call them if you want. I'm too busy trying to fix myself and my life to worry if my kids did or didn't call you this week. I didn't say that of course but kept it to myself. 


The other problem is I sort of cut out the other family. Meaning my Ex wife Aunt and cousins *( cousins which pretty much consisted of my Ex wife Aunts daughters and husbands )*

The reason I cut them loose was simply because their response to me was blood is thicker than water and they gave me a lot of lip service. Basically I would get Facebook personal messages or an occasional text messages saying we should get together soon, how are the kids, hope to see you soon, maybe we can get together. A lot of lets get together but no real action. 

I would see on Facebook parties and functions they would have that I used to be invited to but now no longer am. It hurt me and got to me. I never did anything to them, I never shut them out. my kids never did anything to them. My ex wife their so called blood cut everyone out including them. But they seemed the need to be loyal to her for some reason. Like they would be betraying her trust and friendship for inviting me and my kids to a sweet 16 party or barbecue. 

I offered them to come over anytime, I expressed I had an open door for them and the kids would love to see them and it would make them happy. 

The straw that broke the camels back was the Aunt from canada that completely ignored me and acted like I didn't exist during the divorce. 

Mind you when she would come over with her family to NYC, guess where they would stay ? 

Yep, you guessed it. Our house.. 

She came over from Canada last year and stayed at her sisters house, 6 blocks away from me. I straight out asked to see her and the rest of the family and was straight out ignored. 

So I sent them a group message a month after she left so as not to be all dramatic about it and pretty much told them I am moving on with my life and they should do the same. That I am aware that we will never be closer than these messages and they have no intent of seeing me or my kids.. 

Though I never shut them out and that their own flesh and blood did.. I am sorry they feel this way but there is nothing I can do about it. 

Mind you I waited a year before doing this. I noticed this stuff 3 months into my situation, but figured I would give them some time to come around and see it wasn't me. They never did it seems. I known these people for 20 years.

So this is where my stress is at right now..


----------



## snerg

Hardtohandle said:


> LDT, once this is all done I will tell you guys a bunch. I just don't want to jinx myself ATM.
> 
> How can I explain this.
> 
> It is like she has to be a b1tch to show her loyalty to this OM. I think if she portrayed being nice to me he would be worried that she likes me and has a chance of being with me. So how retarded would it sound if she told me " Please pretend to be mad at me if you talk to him."
> 
> I would imagine if he heard us laughing or being very civil with each other it would annoy him.
> 
> What she fails to see because she is VERY, VERY short sighted that I will be around much longer then this guy.
> 
> Whatever personal issues she has and trust me she does have some sort of issues, which seem similar to what her brother had and was expressing to me in the past. These issues are not and will not be fixed with this.
> 
> So because she is short sighted and love blind / infidelity fog / or whatever you want to call it. She does these retarded things.
> 
> Instead of saying to the OM
> *"look I am leaving him, He is not leaving me. I have no reason to hurt him anymore then I have already. I will have to deal with him as long as we are both alive as we have 2 kids together. It would be much better for me and the kids if we had a amicable relationship."*
> 
> Instead she does whatever she is doing now. Again she is just too retarded to understand. It doesn't excuse her because I explained to her several times she didn't need to do this. So to me its game on.
> 
> Honestly I want to do a million things just to piss her off. But in the end I just want her to go away.
> 
> The funny thing is she will NEED me. She will no longer have my oldest to "take care" of the youngest while she is working. She will now have no choice but to bring the kids over to my house to be with my mother and brother to watch them while she is working late hours ( late hours for her is 3 PM to 7 PM ) 1 day a week.
> 
> On Saturday when she works my youngest will be with the OM from 8 AM to 2 PM. Unless of course she brings him to me. Which will mean I will have my kids every weekend on Saturdays. I know my youngest will want to come to be with his brother and to be with the dog as well.
> 
> Now lets talk about the summer time when the kids are off from school, who will take care of them when both her and the OM are working ? She will be working 4 days during the week. 3 days from 9 to 2 and then the 1 day from 3 to 7, then the Saturday times.
> 
> Of course the kids will now be at my home for 2 months in July and August about 5 days during the week. So much for every other weekend.
> 
> Lets now add in with the kids split. When it is her weekend how is she going to deal with my oldest. He does not want to see this guy. He will not accept being ambushed. So she either will have to come to my home to hang out with them or try to take him out some where. Or the OM will have to leave the apartment on the weekends.
> 
> I would imagine that eventually my son will or might cave in and see him or deal with him, but for now this is the situation.
> 
> You know honestly I hope it takes him at least 4 or 5 months before he meets this guy. Just to prolong the anxiety for the Ex.
> 
> But of course when I tell her she never thought of the kids she gets mad at me.
> 
> KARMA BUS WHERE ARE YOU !!!!


In dealing with her about your kids - document document document document. Absolutely document everything, no matter how trivial!

My friend had an issue with her ex. He did the same as yours - never thought about the kids, always had them over to her house. Treated them poorly.

She eventually was able to petition the courts to award her complete custody.


----------



## turnera

Why aren't you arranging to meet them somewhere else? Are they too old to go to Central Park or a zoo or something? At least a restaurant or two during the week? This isn't for you, it's for your kids. I really resent that my folks didn't give me opportunities to see my grandparents before they died. Yours might, too.


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> Hell of an update HTH.
> 
> I do hope you fix your detective issues on your GF.
> 
> Do the kids like your GF?
> Does she like them?
> 
> HM


Law and Disorder (Audio)

In many sad ways I admit this is me. I wonder if it is a cop thing..

I am aware of what I do and sometimes I catch myself and other times I just lose myself in my craziness. 

Recently I texted my G.F. at 1800 hours ( 6PM ) without my glasses on I seen 1600 hours ( 4PM ).. At 1900 hours 1 hour later (7PM) I asked where she was for 3 hours.. 

I completely forgot it was only 1 hour and I let the crazy take me over as I went along for this retarded ride.. 

In the end she realized what was simply going on and pulled me off the ledge and I apologized for my craziness. 

I'm basically going through a recovery / reconciliation period with someone other than my Ex wife.. Fortunately she understands or is just crazy herself to accept it. 

But for how long !


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Why aren't you arranging to meet them somewhere else? Are they too old to go to Central Park or a zoo or something? At least a restaurant or two during the week? This isn't for you, it's for your kids. I really resent that my folks didn't give me opportunities to see my grandparents before they died. Yours might, too.


I think something got lost in translation.

I want my kids to see them. My kids want to see them everyday this week that they are here.. They the grandparents are only choosing to see them on Saturday for dinner. They came in on Wednesday, I will give them they went to the hotel and rested up from the long trip... Thursday, Friday, Sunday ? 

Mind you when they came to my home, we had dinner or lunch depending on the time they came. We spent time together.. We caught up on a year worth of time. They took the kids out in the car.. ETC.. 

Now its just a Saturday 6PM dinner.

My issue is excluding the woman who is part of my life now out of this.. Part of me feels she shouldn't be excluded from this and the in laws should hopefully understand.. Its not like she is the Other Woman..


----------



## turnera

No I understood. I was just asking why YOU don't just go in and say 'hey, can't we meet a couple more times before you go home?' 

If they don't want to be around you, you could offer to drop the kids off with them.


----------



## Hardtohandle

snerg said:


> In dealing with her about your kids - document document document document. Absolutely document everything, no matter how trivial!
> 
> My friend had an issue with her ex. He did the same as yours - never thought about the kids, always had them over to her house. Treated them poorly.
> 
> She eventually was able to petition the courts to award her complete custody.


Funny reading what you quoted. Many things changed since that post..

Nutshell the kids are with me.. 

My Ex hasn't seen my oldest in over a year and see's my youngest monday and tuesday.. Most mondays she comes around 5 or 6 and brings him home tuesday at around 3 to 4 pm, sometimes he comes home at 1 pm on tuesday now that school is out. He goes to sleep around 830 t0 9 each night.. 

So doing the simple math, she is with him on monday for 3 hours and if he gets up at 9 am on tuesday he is with him on tuesday for 6 hours max.. 9 hours during the week total. There are some days he doesn't even want to go for whatever reason.. 

She could see him on weekends but he my son does not want to lose his weekend. So basically he is okay seeing her a few hours during the week but not a full weekend of time..


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> No I understood. I was just asking why YOU don't just go in and say 'hey, can't we meet a couple more times before you go home?'
> 
> If they don't want to be around you, you could offer to drop the kids off with them.


Well at this point we are limited in days.. I just got the call last night so I only have today, Saturday and Sunday to work with.. 

I'm gonna ask for Sunday and see how it goes..

I do get they have to see their respective families as well. Grandpa has family and so does Grandma.. 

I think what is missing is time spent at the hotel used to be with us..


----------



## Hardtohandle

Update

I called the In-laws and just asked them and explained politely that this woman was part of my life now and I felt bad excluding her and if it would be okay.. They said sure not a problem.. 

I asked about Sunday and explained why, that the kids were asking for them. They expressed a bit of an issue but said we will talk about it at dinner tomorrow. So lets see how it all goes..


----------



## happyman64

Stop stressing. Take the gf. Enjoy the dinner. 

And enjoy the time they are willing to give. 

It is more time than their daughter is willing to give. 

As to the other relatives. Screw em!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

it is a shame how the actions of one person can effect 100 people in

two families. if people would think, before they acted.

hell I'm beating a very dead horse. Enjoy the dinner, don't worry

about how they will view g/f. If they will not be making the trip

any more, maybe the kids could go see them when they get older.

Sucks in a D, your spouse's family may silently agree you were

done wrong but.... the usual reaction always is.....silence

your X was the guilty party but you still seem to be the one shunned


----------



## Chaparral

You seem to be working hard on a self fullfilling prophecy. Your insecurity in your relationship is a weakness. Women hone in on weakness in men like a guided missle. Its not a thought process but a biological process.

You say you get hit on a lot. That means to me , you are an attractive person. It means you can attract nice looking women. The important fact is that attractive women will always have some males sniffing around looking for an opening. Marrying one doesn't mean the competition is over, its barely started. Being with an attractive man raises her worth, her sex rank goes up.

Read the mmslp book linked to below. Turn your dtective eye on yourself. Watch for the body language in yourself you watch for in others. Learn to be strong while faking it until you are.

Quit burning your own bridges with your lack of self confidence. Get the book now. When you read it, you will have many head slapping moments. It is really a book about the common sense that has been stolen from men via political correctness.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Chaparral said:


> You seem to be working hard on a self fullfilling prophecy. Your insecurity in your relationship is a weakness. Women hone in on weakness in men like a guided missle. Its not a thought process but a biological process.
> 
> You say you get hit on a lot. That means to me , you are an attractive person. It means you can attract nice looking women. The important fact is that attractive women will always have some males sniffing around looking for an opening. Marrying one doesn't mean the competition is over, its barely started. Being with an attractive man raises her worth, her sex rank goes up.
> 
> Read the mmslp book linked to below. Turn your dtective eye on yourself. Watch for the body language in yourself you watch for in others. Learn to be strong while faking it until you are.
> 
> Quit burning your own bridges with your lack of self confidence. Get the book now. When you read it, you will have many head slapping moments. It is really a book about the common sense that has been stolen from men via political correctness.


@ Chapparl, I know you don't recall but we actually PMed about the book long ago. I did read it and will reread it again. 

I do agree I am running this relationship into the ground... I am trying hard not to.. I am very open about things and being honest with her. I hope it helps me in the end.. 

My simple issue without getting into much detail is I am lumping the G.F. in with my Ex.. The G.F. in the attempt of being open has told me things that she should have kept secret and maybe just spoke about with her female friends.. She also has done things that were harmless in a sense.

Nutshell I combined all this info into a person that has the propensity to leave me. So why should I be with someone who has the chance of leaving me. 

YES THAT IS RETARDED... I have built up a case why not to be with her.. I am so scared of my own shadow when it comes a relationship its disgusting.. I painted her as a ***** and a person of low morals for the sake of pushing away.. 

There are times I realize this and then there are times the crazy takes over.. I lose myself in the moment and it takes me away.. I need to learn how to control this stuff.. 

When I went to dinner with the inlaws and the G.F., my little guy had to go to the bathroom. I took him to the bathroom a woman was by the stairs going down to the lower level. She looked at me and Looked at her, we smiled said hello. Son asked who she was, I said no one, was just being polite.. We get out of the bathroom she is down there with her friends. She comments Hes a good looking boy like his dad.. All I could do is smile and say if I wasn't in the company I was in atm, I would talk to you some more about it.. She said understand mom and pointed up stairs. I said no and showed her I had no ring on my finger.. I told me son not to discuss what happen.. 

The difference between me and the G.F. is she would somehow someway feel compelled to tell me this story.. I don't tell her a thing. Like this because it would drive her nuts.. Its utterly retarded that she is insecure about me.

So in the end we are both insecure about me.. lol

As far as the dinner went.. It went well. 

I didn't realize until later, what where my in-laws going to do ? Tell me NO ?.. They traveled from Florida to NYC on a train for a 30 hour ride and now they are going to tell me NO ?.. 

They understand that people move on and that is life.. 

The G.F. asked if I thought they seen their daughter my Ex.. I said no.. 

Because if they did then they would have had dinner with their daughter and my youngest instead of with me. They would have set up a time to see my oldest son on another day then.. 

I know my mother in law, she will not reach out to her daughter. She has tried already and will not try again.. She is a tough cookie for a woman and is very blunt about things.. She has not spoken to one sister for many years even when it was found out the sister had cancer and could die.. She is that kind of person.. When she writes you off, you are done with her. Granted she would not write off her daughter but as she told me. Her daughter will feel bad when she finds out from someone else that something happen to her father. 

We also had brunch on sunday which was nice.. I know my mom in law as her son had an affair as well and now is divorced twice and on his third marriage.. She has met His Ex wife boyfriend and has good things to say about him to me, and honestly she didn't have to say anything to me about her son's ex wife boyfriend. So I know when she talks to her sisters, she will probably give the Girlfriend some good props as well. I mean she is younger than her daughter and it is very obvious.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/14/14 Monday

Odd story, just to tell it..

I go to best buy to return a headset that broke, I bought it 25 days ago for my son. I go to customer service with box and receipt and the woman turns me away. 15 days is the limit for such items as it says it on the receipt. The girl leaves for lunch.. 

I tell the G.F. who is looking at AC units away from customer service. Go to customer service and talk to this guy about exchanging this headset.. Make sure you express that your Ex is too lazy to help his son out.. 

I stood away.. 

I see them both walk away from the counter to the back.. I go meet them and basically the guy is letting them return the headset.. They don't have any headsets in the store.. I tell her go ask those guys if the other store has any headsets available. 

She goes and asks one while the other two stand there looking at her and making faces to each other.. Basically the check her out looks. The other guy was talking up my son.. Once I seen they were done I walked over and crushed their hopes. 

It was an amazing thing to see. Its funny how an attractive woman gets what she wants. Its nothing new, but it was cool to see it in action. All she did was stand there and be polite.. 

Its odd. Its okay if she with me and it happens. But if hear about it when I am not it makes me jealous and insecure.. 

It doesn't mean I go into a fit of rage or call her a slvt.. But its the feeling I get inside..

Its these insecurities that are causing me issues. She can literally tell me she loves me until she is blue in the face. She can tell me a million different ways.. But there are times I ignore those words and let the insecurity take over. 

I've seen women catch their husbands looking and have the wife or G.F. give them a look like WTF are you looking at ? 

I've had guys follow us around grocery stores.. I had men follow her to me if she goes to the bathroom in a department store.. 

Its really weird and just something I have to get used to. I never had or seen this happen before.. 

I mean I never did.. Yea, have I seen attractive women before ? Of course, but doesn't mean I follow them around. 

I feel like I am on a hidden camera show sometimes. Things can't be that good for me so soon after my divorce. 

I don't know.. I feel like I am waiting or the ceiling to come down.. 

Again I was NEVER like this.. It bothers me to no end that I can get stupid and not realize it sometimes..


----------



## turnera

Hard, one thing men simply MUST learn is this: when men select a mate, typically the first thing they seek out is being pretty. It's just how men are wired. When women select a mate, they typically first seek out GOODNESS. Because the woman can get men to do stuff for them by their looks and they know it; so they don't value looks as much. What they DO value is a stable, strong, laid-back, fun-loving partner who will/can protect them. 

Sounds like she saw the REAL you - the stable, strong, laid-back, fun-loving person who will protect her. She's likely tried on the hot guys who turn out to be jerks and decided to choose better this time. You.

Actually, I used to tell DD23 when she was in high school to avoid the hot guys just for that reason - hot guys are likely to know it, value looks over other stuff, and be jerks. Wouldn't she rather date an ok-looking guy who has a wonderful soul and thus have great times with him, instead of just having him for arm candy when he's really a jerk? She's tried both sides (she's really pretty), and she agrees.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Hardtohandle, you seem like such a nice guy. But this really jumped out at me, and I'm surprised you would behave this way after experiencing infidelity. I know you're not married to this woman, but if you're already telling each other "I love you" (you said she can tell you she loves you til she's "blue in the face," but you're still insecure), it sounds like your relationship with the G.F. is exclusive, right? 

You are "jealous and insecure" about the way your G.F. gets what she wants out in the world because she's attractive and men respond to that, even though she's just "being polite." 

And YET, a woman flirts with you at a restaurant while you're taking your son to the bathroom and...



> We get out of the bathroom she is down there with her friends. She comments Hes a good looking boy like his dad.. All I could do is smile and say if I wasn't in the company I was in atm, I would talk to you some more about it.. She said understand mom and pointed up stairs. I said no and showed her I had no ring on my finger.. I told me son not to discuss what happen..


Do you realize that if YOU behave in an untrustworthy way when your G.F.'s not around, you're more likely to assume that she'll behave like you do when you're not around? We tend to believe people we are involved with are more like us than they really are. You are making your own insecurities worse by behaving like that behind her back! 

And even enlisting your son to help keep your behavior a secret. That's an extra layer of sneaky. You're adding to your fears by behaving in this way. (Not to mention teaching your son a lesson in being disloyal - ick.)

Remember the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you want your G.F. to be true to you, and want her to behave a certain way toward other men, how should YOU be behaving toward other women? If YOU want peace of mind, you need to start by getting you OWN behavior in line. You can never expect loyalty of anyone if you aren't expecting it of yourself. And please, teach your son loyalty, not how to cheat on his future girlfriends and get someone else to cover for him.


----------



## NoRush

turnera said:


> Hard, one thing men simply MUST learn is this: when men select a mate, typically the first thing they seek out is being pretty. It's just how men are wired. When women select a mate, they typically first seek out GOODNESS.


If that was true, women wouldn't chase after Bad Boys trying to reform them all the damn time.

@OP: if you have a great thing going don't spoil it!! Find a way to make it work. Stop talking yourself out of the relationship. You might get burned again. So what? Women come and go, but nobody can take away from you that you are a father.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Hard, one thing men simply MUST learn is this: when men select a mate, typically the first thing they seek out is being pretty. It's just how men are wired. When women select a mate, they typically first seek out GOODNESS. Because the woman can get men to do stuff for them by their looks and they know it; so they don't value looks as much. What they DO value is a stable, strong, laid-back, fun-loving partner who will/can protect them.
> 
> Sounds like she saw the REAL you - the stable, strong, laid-back, fun-loving person who will protect her. She's likely tried on the hot guys who turn out to be jerks and decided to choose better this time. You.
> 
> Actually, I used to tell DD23 when she was in high school to avoid the hot guys just for that reason - hot guys are likely to know it, value looks over other stuff, and be jerks. Wouldn't she rather date an ok-looking guy who has a wonderful soul and thus have great times with him, instead of just having him for arm candy when he's really a jerk? She's tried both sides (she's really pretty), and she agrees.


You funny you should post this..

I spoke with her yesterday and I apologized basically for being a d1ck.. It was I think much nicer, longer and with more empathy but that was the gist. 

She told me simply, look if I use your own issues and reverse it. I can tell you for all the bodybuilders, personal trainers I have gone out with I love you.. I pick you. You just need to accept that.. 

What I also think is happening is Triggers.. These months are Trigger months for me, especially September. For some crazy reason every time me and my Ex had an issue it seemed it was these months and it was EVERY September that I found out or caught her. I explained this to her and she understood. 

We are working on ways to not fight/argue. Basically to shut down the argument before it starts. Lets see what works..


----------



## Hardtohandle

hopefulgirl said:


> Hardtohandle, you seem like such a nice guy. But this really jumped out at me, and I'm surprised you would behave this way after experiencing infidelity. I know you're not married to this woman, but if you're already telling each other "I love you" (you said she can tell you she loves you til she's "blue in the face," but you're still insecure), it sounds like your relationship with the G.F. is exclusive, right?
> 
> You are "jealous and insecure" about the way your G.F. gets what she wants out in the world because she's attractive and men respond to that, even though she's just "being polite."
> 
> And YET, a woman flirts with you at a restaurant while you're taking your son to the bathroom and...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize that if YOU behave in an untrustworthy way when your G.F.'s not around, you're more likely to assume that she'll behave like you do when you're not around? We tend to believe people we are involved with are more like us than they really are. You are making your own insecurities worse by behaving like that behind her back!
> 
> And even enlisting your son to help keep your behavior a secret. That's an extra layer of sneaky. You're adding to your fears by behaving in this way. (Not to mention teaching your son a lesson in being disloyal - ick.)
> 
> Remember the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you want your G.F. to be true to you, and want her to behave a certain way toward other men, how should YOU be behaving toward other women? If YOU want peace of mind, you need to start by getting you OWN behavior in line. You can never expect loyalty of anyone if you aren't expecting it of yourself. And please, teach your son loyalty, not how to cheat on his future girlfriends and get someone else to cover for him.



*You are 100 percent correct... I didn't see it until after I posted it honestly... *

In my lame defense, I will tell you.. I used to be 310 LBS.. Now I am 235.. Its a sad but honest reality men and women don't want fat partners. I'm still overweight, but really nothing when compared to before.. Did I get attention before yes, because I have the gift for gab. But nothing like it is now honestly. 

I was just at a wake yesterday and woman who has a daughter 5 years older than me, that I had a crush on when I was a kid, was now saying 5 years doesn't make a difference, because she knows I have dated older women. Her daughter is going through a divorce. Her sons wife was talking to me and I could see she didn't like it. That is when she pulled out her daughter pics. 

I'm no fool, I get it.. I see it. 

I have to say I like the attention. Its going to sound feminine, but I enjoy getting dressed up and looking well now ( metrosexual I think is the term now ). Before with my Ex, who did I have to impress ? No one.. I wore crappy shorts and beat up sneakers. Now I wear different watches depending on the clothes I wear. I'm basically more dressed up now and neater. I'm akin to Steve Carell in stupid crazy love movie. I'm not over the top but I just don't wear the shirt with the stain anymore to go outside for any reason that is not in my backyard and my hair is neat.


----------



## Hardtohandle

NoRush said:


> If that was true, women wouldn't chase after Bad Boys trying to reform them all the damn time.
> 
> @OP: if you have a great thing going don't spoil it!! Find a way to make it work. Stop talking yourself out of the relationship. You might get burned again. So what? Women come and go, but nobody can take away from you that you are a father.


You know I will tell you what the G.F. says.. 

Yes I dated, Yes I might have dated a lot when I was YOUNGER.. She emphasizes that.. Yes I might have dated a bunch of men now before you.. But it doesn't mean I fvcked every guy I dated.. *(I commented every other guy)*, she hates that..

But I can tell you I don't need to date a bunch of men.. I can say I've been there done that.. I've dated the bad boys, the rockstars ( not kidding here), movie stars ( not kidding here either ) and I'm done with it.. Once I was married I was a loyal and faithful wife of 20 years. 

Do you think men stopped hitting on me ? 
Do you think that certain men from my past didn't try to lure me away from my Ex while married ? 
Promising me things and my kids.. A better life style. Less work ? 
I remained loyal to my husband through 2 rehabs. 
But now you think I am going to cheat on you ?! 
Why ? 

If I can have a single well built man with no kids and more money than you right now, why would I go through all this trouble with you ? Why, Because I love you, you dope.. I don't love him. I picked you over him.. I told him I loved you and why.. It crushed him.. He wanted me to date the both of you. I told him no.. He couldn't believe after 1 week I felt so much for you.. ( I know who this person is btw ).

She actually confessed a week after we were going out that she dated him the next day after we first met. Our first meet was a cup of coffee for 2 hours. She felt bad like she was keeping a secret from me. She was suppose to see him the following week but called him and cut him loose.

My G.F. feels for me what I used to feel for my wife, which is like this devoted love.. The G.F. always says, I'm jealous of the love you had for your wife because that is how I feel about you and I know you don't feel the same way about me or probably ever will. I understand why because of what she did and how she did it. But I hate that I lose that from you because of her.. 

And I understand what she is saying.. I just won't have that kind of dedicated, devoted, undying love for someone again. Mine is more of a rational love now if that makes sense. 

I love you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you but if you decided to cheat you will be out that door in 2 seconds. It is as if she was sitting on the ejection seat and she knows it. 


I think some people lead a sheltered life and then want to discover what they are missing. 

Some people lead a sheltered life and understand what they are missing is no big deal. What they have is more important than trying to discover if someone might be better for them.

I tell you I am growing up everyday. Even at 47 I can be immature.


----------



## turnera

NoRush said:


> If that was true, women wouldn't chase after Bad Boys trying to reform them all the damn time.


Broken women chase bad boys (because they'll always pick wrong) and YOUNG women chase bad boys. Young women who waste valuable years on POS men and then LEARN that looks don't matter, what's inside matters. Men have a harder time turning that off.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Broken women chase bad boys (because they'll always pick wrong) and YOUNG women chase bad boys. Young women who waste valuable years on POS men and then LEARN that looks don't matter, what's inside matters. Men have a harder time turning that off.


Very true.. Sadly...


----------



## NoRush

turnera said:


> Broken women chase bad boys (because they'll always pick wrong) and YOUNG women chase bad boys. Young women who waste valuable years on POS men and then LEARN that looks don't matter, what's inside matters. Men have a harder time turning that off.


Well I guess there are a lot of broken women out there. If you think the bad boy image only sells to the teeny-boppers then you're sadly mistaken.


----------



## trueblu8

walkonmars said:


> Hardtohandle
> 
> I know this is of little or no comfort to you. But if you read the introductory post of the threads on just one page of this board you will discover that what you are going through is very common.
> 
> The age range for your wife is about right. The excuses vary; not enough attention, always working, too much attention, not working, overweight, it goes on and on.
> 
> They are all EXCUSES. Nothing but excuses. If you had never touched the computer during your marriage it would have been something as trivial as "you never, ever, not once, put the toilet seat down!"
> 
> And you would think back and say "you know. you're right! I'm scum. I wished I had put the toilet seat down. Damn me to hell!"
> 
> So you were on the computer while Mother Teresa tended to the ills of society - but forgot to tell you to get off the friggin' computer and put the toilet seat down.
> 
> It wasn't that. Not at all. She got restless. She got bored. She doubted her attractiveness (no matter if she was playboy material - she doubted it).
> 
> She's not into you. You can and will come out of this. She will awaken one morning and wonder why she did this.


This is a great post. As BS's we tend to want to take the blame for what has happened. Oh if we only did this or that, maybe she'd still be with us. Even the WS believes her own lies so she doesn't feel guilty and feels justified in what she is doing. Mine has even told me that she didn't leave me for another man, she left me because I wasn't doing the things that she wanted. I told her you might have been able to say that if you hadn't been having an affair for 3 months while still living with me, but now you're not fooling anybody. People aren't stupid. The rest of your family knows what's going on here. You got the hots for somebody else, weren't attracted to me anymore, and left me for him. That's the real deal. Even the WS's close family members will try to blame the BS to justify things and make her not look so bad to the rest of the family. Fat chance of that though. They're only fooling themselves.


----------



## Marduk

NoRush said:


> Well I guess there are a lot of broken women out there. If you think the bad boy image only sells to the teeny-boppers then you're sadly mistaken.


I will tell you that once I upped the bad boy image (even a little bit) all of a sudden a ton of married women would flirt and overtly come on to me.

My wife has lost friends, or now mistrusts friends because of this. A family member even.

And I've learned to ramp down the bad boy vibe. Sure it turns on my wife but it's seriously like I had a t-bone stake stapled to my forehead and every woman was a ravenous wolf.


----------



## trueblu8

marduk said:


> I will tell you that once I upped the bad boy image (even a little bit) all of a sudden a ton of married women would flirt and overtly come on to me.
> 
> My wife has lost friends, or now mistrusts friends because of this. A family member even.
> 
> And I've learned to ramp down the bad boy vibe. Sure it turns on my wife but it's seriously like I had a t-bone stake stapled to my forehead and every woman was a ravenous wolf.


Can you please explain how you went about doing this? Lol.


----------



## turnera

marduk said:


> I will tell you that once I upped the bad boy image (even a little bit) all of a sudden a ton of married women would flirt and overtly come on to me.
> 
> My wife has lost friends, or now mistrusts friends because of this. A family member even.
> 
> And I've learned to ramp down the bad boy vibe. Sure it turns on my wife but it's seriously like I had a t-bone stake stapled to my forehead and every woman was a ravenous wolf.


meh, that 'image' is no different than the woman's version, of a smoking hot diva walking over you with her 5-foot heels. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFJk6eKhaQQ

We ALL fall for that LOOK, male or female. What matters is if we then ditch what's rational for a chance at it.


----------



## Marduk

trueblu8 said:


> Can you please explain how you went about doing this? Lol.


Sure.

First of all, I quit my whining and b!tching about all the stuff that she was doing that was p!ssing me off. She was going out/away all the time. She still does, but maybe 1/10th of what she was doing.

Bad boys don't b!tch, they do.

Second of all, I worked out hardcore. Watched my diet, dropped 25 or 30 lbs of fat, gained 20 lbs of muscle.

Bad boys are tough.

Third of all, I got some cool new threads. I actually walked into a very hip store downtown, started chatting with this gay guy, and told him the look I was going for. He was great. Got clothes that actually fit my new bod, and were a bit edgy. Very slick and clean and classic at work, think Don Draper. 

A bit edgy at home, classic vintage t-shirts, tighter jeans, new leather coat, cool biker boots, that kind of thing. Think like something Johnny Depp might wear around the house. 

Got rid all my clothes that didn't fit my body and image. Stopped wearing crap clothes altogether. Even mowing the lawn -- cool cutoffs or shorts, tighter wife beater to show off the new guns. Try to never ever look like a slob even when chilling on the couch with the wife.

Got some good cologne. Got a good hair cut on the cool messy side. Good hair, face, body products. 

Bad boys always look good even when they look bad.

So that sorted my look. THAT alone turned some heads and only took 3ish months and some bucks and was pretty easy.

Next I started to rock a ****y attitude. I'd laugh and joke and try to be the life of the party... which felt like I was faking it. But it worked. I'd just open up more and be a bit sarcastic or bug people more or just kick back and laugh about stuff. Drop loads of sexual innuendo (depending on who's around).

Bad boys are the life of the party and don't give a crap what other people think.

I watched how I held my body. I try to take up more space, stand more confidently, walk more confidently.

I started to be way more physically handsy with my wife. I'd have my arm around her more, grab or smack her butt more, that kind of stuff. But casually, not like I was trying to control or possess her or something, but more like... of _course_ she wants my hands on her.

Bad boys take what they want from women.

At the same time, I did what I wanted more. Was out more with the boys. Went mountain biking and would come back bleeding, covered in mud, and a big smile on my face. 

Bad boys have fun and do what they want.

Take her out on more date nights that weren't lame... and started pushing her boundaries. Burlesque show, go-go club, killer hip restaurants, sex shops, that kind of thing. I'd always have a plan, and always surprise her.

Bad boys aren't boring.

Sexted her often. Pushed boundaries in the bedroom. Openly checked out other women... in a classy way of course. Was open and honest with her about that kind of thing more without rubbing her nose in it.

Bad boys get laid.

That's what I did.

Along the way, accidentally (honest!) I had:

- My buddy's wife would try to come over whenever she knew my wife wasn't home (I'd physically have to stand in the doorway to stop her)... wearing low cut tops... and then she told my wife how lucky she was to have me... and then she said something about "how would you feel about sharing" before my wife killed the whole thing.

- Her girlfriend came over and was hanging out with the three of us hanging out... and then she openly propositioned me in front of my wife. She played it off as a joke (and I'm sure it kind of was) but it caused some serious friction for a while. It didn't help that her girlfriend was a blonde bombshell and younger than my wife. 

- A female family member of my wife propositioned me at a wedding in front of my wife. Started as a joke... and then became really, really awkward.

Etc. There are more, but you get the drift.

Wimenz be crazy, yo.


----------



## bfree

Textbook. Somewhere Athol Kay is smiling right now.


----------



## Q tip

marduk said:


> Sure.
> 
> First of all, I quit my whining and b!tching about all the stuff that she was doing that was p!ssing me off. She was going out/away all the time. She still does, but maybe 1/10th of what she was doing.
> 
> Bad boys don't b!tch, they do.
> 
> Second of all, I worked out hardcore. Watched my diet, dropped 25 or 30 lbs of fat, gained 20 lbs of muscle.
> 
> Bad boys are tough.
> 
> Third of all, I got some cool new threads. I actually walked into a very hip store downtown, started chatting with this gay guy, and told him the look I was going for. He was great. Got clothes that actually fit my new bod, and were a bit edgy. Very slick and clean and classic at work, think Don Draper.
> 
> A bit edgy at home, classic vintage t-shirts, tighter jeans, new leather coat, cool biker boots, that kind of thing. Think like something Johnny Depp might wear around the house.
> 
> Got rid all my clothes that didn't fit my body and image. Stopped wearing crap clothes altogether. Even mowing the lawn -- cool cutoffs or shorts, tighter wife beater to show off the new guns. Try to never ever look like a slob even when chilling on the couch with the wife.
> 
> Got some good cologne. Got a good hair cut on the cool messy side. Good hair, face, body products.
> 
> Bad boys always look good even when they look bad.
> 
> So that sorted my look. THAT alone turned some heads and only took 3ish months and some bucks and was pretty easy.
> 
> Next I started to rock a ****y attitude. I'd laugh and joke and try to be the life of the party... which felt like I was faking it. But it worked. I'd just open up more and be a bit sarcastic or bug people more or just kick back and laugh about stuff. Drop loads of sexual innuendo (depending on who's around).
> 
> Bad boys are the life of the party and don't give a crap what other people think.
> 
> I watched how I held my body. I try to take up more space, stand more confidently, walk more confidently.
> 
> I started to be way more physically handsy with my wife. I'd have my arm around her more, grab or smack her butt more, that kind of stuff. But casually, not like I was trying to control or possess her or something, but more like... of _course_ she wants my hands on her.
> 
> Bad boys take what they want from women.
> 
> At the same time, I did what I wanted more. Was out more with the boys. Went mountain biking and would come back bleeding, covered in mud, and a big smile on my face.
> 
> Bad boys have fun and do what they want.
> 
> Take her out on more date nights that weren't lame... and started pushing her boundaries. Burlesque show, go-go club, killer hip restaurants, sex shops, that kind of thing. I'd always have a plan, and always surprise her.
> 
> Bad boys aren't boring.
> 
> Sexted her often. Pushed boundaries in the bedroom. Openly checked out other women... in a classy way of course. Was open and honest with her about that kind of thing more without rubbing her nose in it.
> 
> Bad boys get laid.
> 
> That's what I did.
> 
> Along the way, accidentally (honest!) I had:
> 
> - My buddy's wife would try to come over whenever she knew my wife wasn't home (I'd physically have to stand in the doorway to stop her)... wearing low cut tops... and then she told my wife how lucky she was to have me... and then she said something about "how would you feel about sharing" before my wife killed the whole thing.
> 
> - Her girlfriend came over and was hanging out with the three of us hanging out... and then she openly propositioned me in front of my wife. She played it off as a joke (and I'm sure it kind of was) but it caused some serious friction for a while. It didn't help that her girlfriend was a blonde bombshell and younger than my wife.
> 
> - A female family member of my wife propositioned me at a wedding in front of my wife. Started as a joke... and then became really, really awkward.
> 
> Etc. There are more, but you get the drift.
> 
> Wimenz be crazy, yo.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Well written !!!! 

*Weightlifter* make a copy!!!!!

This is a guaranteed result. Every time it's tried. Hit the weights hard and heavy. 3 or 4 times a week. You don't gotta like it, just gotta do it. 

After 3 months wow what a difference. That alone with bring that your confidence and crowd presence way up. The rest is a decent attitude and balance it. 

Even a stop at the grocery store - you get eyes from the ladies. Guaranteed ....!

Hint - focus on free weights. Machines don't get you where you'd like nearly as fast. At least mix the two. Talk to a trainer for an hour for what you're looking for.

Read and study MMSLP. Believe! Yo!


----------



## Marduk

bfree said:


> Textbook. Somewhere Athol Kay is smiling right now.


Well... yes and no.

For example, AK would say that "letting" your wife go away for girl's trips is something you draw the line at.

For me, it's something I drew the line at... and she crossed anyway. So, was I going to divorce my wife and split my family because of a girl's trip where I had zero suspicion that she did anything?

No.

The only rational option I had was to be cool with it... and take my own boy's trips.

Bad boys aren't jealous and possessive. They make women jealous and possessive.

And I have a lot of problems with his work post-MMSLP. It's the beginning of getting better... but not the end.

You can get a good mix of alpha and beta. But you can also be consequently alone emotionally in your marriage. He might say "suck it up." As would I... in the beginning.

But I want that side of my marriage back, too. I want to be able to be vulnerable with my wife. I want to be able to be friends with my wife. I want to be able to be emotionally open and connected with my wife... even when the emotions aren't good ones. And that's what I'm working on now.

Oh, and he's a bit of a ****. But that's another story.


----------



## bfree

Ok I amend my previous post. Somewhere Roissy must be smiling. And for the record we're all a bit of a ******.


----------



## illwill

marduk said:


> Sure.
> 
> First of all, I quit my whining and b!tching about all the stuff that she was doing that was p!ssing me off. She was going out/away all the time. She still does, but maybe 1/10th of what she was doing.
> 
> Bad boys don't b!tch, they do.
> 
> Second of all, I worked out hardcore. Watched my diet, dropped 25 or 30 lbs of fat, gained 20 lbs of muscle.
> 
> Bad boys are tough.
> 
> Third of all, I got some cool new threads. I actually walked into a very hip store downtown, started chatting with this gay guy, and told him the look I was going for. He was great. Got clothes that actually fit my new bod, and were a bit edgy. Very slick and clean and classic at work, think Don Draper.
> 
> A bit edgy at home, classic vintage t-shirts, tighter jeans, new leather coat, cool biker boots, that kind of thing. Think like something Johnny Depp might wear around the house.
> 
> Got rid all my clothes that didn't fit my body and image. Stopped wearing crap clothes altogether. Even mowing the lawn -- cool cutoffs or shorts, tighter wife beater to show off the new guns. Try to never ever look like a slob even when chilling on the couch with the wife.
> 
> Got some good cologne. Got a good hair cut on the cool messy side. Good hair, face, body products.
> 
> Bad boys always look good even when they look bad.
> 
> So that sorted my look. THAT alone turned some heads and only took 3ish months and some bucks and was pretty easy.
> 
> Next I started to rock a ****y attitude. I'd laugh and joke and try to be the life of the party... which felt like I was faking it. But it worked. I'd just open up more and be a bit sarcastic or bug people more or just kick back and laugh about stuff. Drop loads of sexual innuendo (depending on who's around).
> 
> Bad boys are the life of the party and don't give a crap what other people think.
> 
> I watched how I held my body. I try to take up more space, stand more confidently, walk more confidently.
> 
> I started to be way more physically handsy with my wife. I'd have my arm around her more, grab or smack her butt more, that kind of stuff. But casually, not like I was trying to control or possess her or something, but more like... of _course_ she wants my hands on her.
> 
> Bad boys take what they want from women.
> 
> At the same time, I did what I wanted more. Was out more with the boys. Went mountain biking and would come back bleeding, covered in mud, and a big smile on my face.
> 
> Bad boys have fun and do what they want.
> 
> Take her out on more date nights that weren't lame... and started pushing her boundaries. Burlesque show, go-go club, killer hip restaurants, sex shops, that kind of thing. I'd always have a plan, and always surprise her.
> 
> Bad boys aren't boring.
> 
> Sexted her often. Pushed boundaries in the bedroom. Openly checked out other women... in a classy way of course. Was open and honest with her about that kind of thing more without rubbing her nose in it.
> 
> Bad boys get laid.
> 
> That's what I did.
> 
> Along the way, accidentally (honest!) I had:
> 
> - My buddy's wife would try to come over whenever she knew my wife wasn't home (I'd physically have to stand in the doorway to stop her)... wearing low cut tops... and then she told my wife how lucky she was to have me... and then she said something about "how would you feel about sharing" before my wife killed the whole thing.
> 
> - Her girlfriend came over and was hanging out with the three of us hanging out... and then she openly propositioned me in front of my wife. She played it off as a joke (and I'm sure it kind of was) but it caused some serious friction for a while. It didn't help that her girlfriend was a blonde bombshell and younger than my wife.
> 
> - A female family member of my wife propositioned me at a wedding in front of my wife. Started as a joke... and then became really, really awkward.
> 
> Etc. There are more, but you get the drift.
> 
> Wimenz be crazy, yo.


Bad boys are only bad boys to certain types of women. Usually not the type who remain faithful. To other women badboys are just assho!es.

And you can not fake being a bad boy. Jusy likeyou cannot fake being alpha.


----------



## Marduk

illwill said:


> Bad boys are only bad boys to certain types of women. Usually not the type who remain faithful. To other women badboys are just assho!es.
> 
> And you can not fake being a bad boy. Jusy likeyou cannot fake being alpha.


I did. Well, I faked it for the first few months anyway. Until it started to come naturally. I felt like an idiot.

But it sure worked. I got hit on multiple times the first week of "faking it" when I hadn't been hit on for years.

I think there's the right mix of bad boy/dutiful husband that is probably good for both the man and the woman.

Enough bad boy to keep her wanting to get naked. Enough dutiful husband that she feels safe doing so.

Enough bad boy that he feels like he's still himself and free. Enough dutiful husband to know what his place in the world is and that people depend on him.

I won't pretend that I had -- and have -- trouble keeping the balance right.


----------



## Q tip

illwill said:


> Bad boys are only bad boys to certain types of women. Usually not the type who remain faithful. To other women badboys are just assho!es.
> 
> And you can not fake being a bad boy. Jusy likeyou cannot fake being alpha.


Oh really?.? Have you tried? Weight lifting, 20-30 pound of muscle, getting in some respectable shape, the whole thing? 

Surprised you failed then. Really surprised. (Kidding, I know you did not try)


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Q tip said:


> Oh really?.? Have you tried? Weight lifting, 20-30 pound of muscle, getting in some respectable shape, the whole thing?
> 
> Surprised you failed then. Really surprised. (Kidding, I know you did not try)


20-30 pounds of muscle would take about 3 years, not 3 months to do naturally.

I don't buy this part.


----------



## trueblu8

Cool avatar GP. Clint's a badass.


----------



## Marduk

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> 20-30 pounds of muscle would take about 3 years, not 3 months to do naturally.
> 
> I don't buy this part.


Oh, you're right about that... sorry memories from a few years ago are hazy.

I'm lucky I gain muscle fast. The first 3 months I dropped a ton of weight and put on some muscle. It's hard to gauge.

High protein, high fat, vitamin d, omega-3s were key. And heavy weights.

Putting on all the muscle took a year+.

It helped that when I was in my late teens/early 20's I was in pretty good shape with a lot of muscle mass.


----------



## Cre8ify

What illwill might not be considering is many of us were natural alphas and bad boys before society, in my case, nuns neutered us. Rather than fake it til you make it, many of us are finding our long lost stones.

I also make it a point of attracting the attention of my wife's "circle". I poke fun at, and cuss, and dismiss some pretty well powdered women who are not used to that. My wife hears about it. She says I was a well kept secret for along time but not any more. None of them are prone to cheat as far as I know, but attraction is attraction.


----------



## Marduk

Cre8ify said:


> What illwill might not be considering is many of us were natural alphas and bad boys before society, in my case, nuns neutered us. Rather than fake it til you make it, many of us are finding our long lost stones.
> 
> I also make it a point of attracting the attention of my wife's "circle". I poke fun at, and cuss, and dismiss some pretty well powdered women who are not used to that. My wife hears about it. She says I was a well kept secret for along time but not any more. None of them are prone to cheat as far as I know, but attraction is attraction.


Women are weird.

We were out the other night, and a killer hot 20-something very indiscreetly checked me out.

My wife got mad at her, and then later said it kind of turned her on that she could keep a man like me that could attract women almost half her age.

Like she was proud or something.


----------



## turnera

Cavemen just went over and took the woman they wanted.

Cavewomen kind of lined up along the cave wall for the men to peruse and then take the woman they wanted. Thus, it became in the cavewoman's best interests to always be aware of the competition.


----------



## trueblu8

turnera said:


> Cavemen just went over and took the woman they wanted.
> 
> Cavewomen kind of lined up along the cave wall for the men to peruse and then take the woman they wanted. Thus, it became in the cavewoman's best interests to always be aware of the competition.


And so it goes on today. Lol. We haven't changed a bit.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I'm having a real hard time dealing with it*



trueblu8 said:


> And so it goes on today. Lol. We haven't changed a bit.


Only difference...today we have fancier clubs and loin cloths.


----------



## turnera

Oh, I forgot to add...the cavemen who weren't strong enough to go take their woman ended up alone. Because the women who didn't get picked didn't want the weak cavemen, either.


----------



## trueblu8

Lol.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/18/14 Friday..

Long and the short me and the GF broke up it seems. I won't even waste my time explaining as it is utterly retarded.. I tried to reach out to her to do my part and it seems she blocked my number as it goes right to voice mail. I tried and that is all I can do.

Out of all the fights we have ever had.. This one was the MOST retarded and asinine. I tried to calmly explain to her how silly it was. 

The only thing I can see happening is, she see's how retarded she was reach out to me. 

Yes it hurts and I feel like I have a knot in my chest, but nothing like a divorce that's for sure. 

What bothers me is 11 months wasted. I know its not wasted as I had a good time for the most part, but to me it is. We talked about so much and had so many plans and it was all wasted talk.

nonetheless I am going to try to lay low for a bit and wait for this new job to open up and see how things work out. I get to save money at least now.. 

Lets see what the weekend brings..


----------



## trueblu8

Dude what happened? Seriously. Share it with us when you're feeling up to it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/23/14 Wed

Me and the G.F. are back together *( I think )* ?

Had an argument because she sort of became obsessive over wanted to please me orally..

Because it takes me a long time to orgasm, she complains that she is doing it for an hour, but then stops when I am about to orgasm because she wants to make it intense.. So she complains that she is doing it for an hour but doesn't want it to happen when its *FINALLY THERE.*

By her stopping I lose the moment of climax. So I might not be at point 1, but I am not at point 10 either.. 

She gets tired of doing it and I understand why.. I tell her let me just fvck you, she tells me no play with it to get it back to that point.. 

So again I have an naked woman next to me and I am resorted to jerking off ? 

I told her once before I don't like it and it feels stupid because I can do this alone at home. Its like having a toolbox full of tools and I keep going for the hammer regardless of the job I am doing..

End result I get frustrated and I finally decide to fvck her and I tell *( foolishly out of frustration ):* *"If you don't finish this job, I swear I will find someone who can"*

By this time I was going limp.. 

I don't need to tell you this all fell apart.

Mind you this happened around midnight and just 2 hours earlier I just finished fvcking her / making love to her for over 1 hour.. Without an orgasm on my end.. She of course had tons, at least 10 between everything I did to her at that time. 

At the beginning of this 2nd time I made it clear this time its about me.. Not you.. But of course, she gets hers *AGAIN* and I am left high and dry..

This of course drags into, I will never go down on you again and I am so difficult to be with.. Its not my fault you have issues and can't orgasm.. 

I am NOT complaining I didn't orgasm the first time around.. I am used to it.. But I knew the 2nd time around I would, if she would just let me. 

Sadly as utterly retarded this is, It is not the first time this happens. Its like this conquest that must occur for women I am with. 

I didn't tell her that because she would get upset even more knowing other women had this issue with me.. To her it would be the image of other women going down on me. 

I just wanted the 2nd time around to be about me. 

Am I asking too much here ? 

Man I love her but these fights are just too retarded..


----------



## Ripper

Been there. Takes me forever to get off. Went through some of the same BS too. They take it personal.

The girl I'm with now can finally pull off oral consistently, but it took a lot of trail and error, along with several arguments along the line of yours. As long as she is willing to take direction and keep at it, you will eventually get there. She needs to easy off on trying to "edge" you until then.

Surprisingly, I have never had any woman complain how long it takes for me to get off when I'm fvcking them stupid. 

Don't sweat it so bad. Its a stupid argument, but you got a girl that at least is trying to blow your top.



Hardtohandle said:


> she sort of became obsessive over wanted to please me orally..


Its amazing what some of them will do when presented a challenge.


----------



## turnera

I would die if I had to go at that for an hour. My H understands and is ok with me starting out that way and finishing off by hand and oil.


----------



## trueblu8

Jesus. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cool12

what is the big fkin deal with finishing a guy off with your mouth? i don't get why it's so important to some people. i've been with guys where it was easy to do and i was, if you want to know the truth, disappointed when it happened. most of the time it meant party over! i'd be super surprised if it was an issue 100 years ago when porn was not all over the place. 

i love to please my man orally and he loves it too, just not to climax. i'm so relieved he would rather get off while fvcking over anything else. him finishing inside me feels amazing and the thought of all that goodness going somewhere else makes me a little sad. lol.

as for having to jerk off with a woman right there, yeah, i don't like that either. the only times it has happened to us was when H was too drunk and watching too much porn. now that both of us are sober it's not an issue.

good luck working thru this.


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## Hardtohandle

08/11/14 Monday..

Saturday night 8/09/14 I exploded.. It was bad... 

Me and the G.F. went out to dinner to a dinner/dance club/restaurant place.. Basically it has tables and a dance floor and music.. 

Its a place I know she has been with her friends and "Guy Friends".. I know she has been there to eat and dance..

We danced once in the 11 months we have been together.. But She has expressed in the past prior to me about being the first one on the dance floor and going out to places to dance with these friends.. 

I am not afraid to dance and I believe I have some rhythm in me so I don't look like a fool on the dance floor.. 

We ate, we had 2 drinks each. I asked her to dance several times.. She just said no.. No explanation, Just no..

Well as you can imagine I started reflecting back on what she told me and in my head it was sure she would dance with her guy friends, but no me.. So why ? 

She knew right near the end before I asked for the check that I was getting pissed.. And said you want to dance, lets dance.. 

I told her no.. I don't need your pitty or to do me any favors.. Lets go.. I paid the bill

Mind you we went to the movies with the kids earlier.. That was $ 65.00, Popcorn and such $ 40.00.. Dinner and drinks $ 185.00.. Parking $ 10.00.. So it was a $ 300.00 dollar night for me.. Not a complaint just putting it out here..

All I asked was to dance with the woman I love and supposedly loves me.. But I couldn't even get that..

Nonetheless it doesn't excuse what I did.. We got outside, we talked but it was slightly heated.. I told her.. No I get it, if your with your guy friends you can go out dancing.. But with me I'm not good enough for you for this.. Fine go the fvck out with your guy friends and leave me the fvck alone..

We get into the car and now I snap.. I was screaming.. I went insane.. I was pointing at her yelling telling her fvck you.. fvck you and your friends.. 

I was hurt.. But I shouldn't have imploded like that.. But I just wanted to let know how mad I was.. How selfish she was or I felt she was.. *Backstory: She changed movie plans from Friday to Saturday and then wanted to cancel going out all together.* Nonetheless she wants to make it like she did everything for me because she didn't want to go out at all and only went out because I wanted to.. 

Again I know I was wrong with that rage.. She was afraid.. She never seen me like that.. 

I'm ashamed I totally went off the deep end here.. I could have expressed my issues without going nuts.. 

I just felt like I was jilted and wasn't good enough like these other guy friends were.. 

I know this is directly stemming from my divorce issues.. Its a no brainer.. 

G.F. says she loves me but this cannot happen again.. She was upset and crying.. 

This NOT the man I want to be.. I do not want to be the man someone is afraid of..


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## turnera

Methinks you two need a break from each other. She's obviously lost interest and is taking you for granted.

And YOU need time apart to go to therapy and dig into this "I'm not good enough" crap. I promise, if you keep going there mentally, it's seeping out into your demeanor and actions. And that's not attractive.

btw, blowing up like that is a beta step. It's a person who waits for other people to prove HIS worth for him and when it doesn't happen, he blames the other people instead of accepting that he should have had that worth to begin with.


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## happyman64

HTH

No. You should not have exploded with rage.

I have been in your very shoes my friend. And my wife and children were witness to my temper tantrums.

And you are right. You do not want the people you love to fear you.

Make the appropriate changes in your life so you never get this angry.

THat might include severing that relationship with your GF.

And find out what makes you so angry and make the necessary changes to get that anger out in a more constructive way.

HM


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## syhoybenden

You know that this isn't working out, right?

So why put yourself through all the pain?

There is someone out there for you, just not this one.


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## bandit.45

She's not a match for you brother. First of all, she should not be going out with guy friends if she is in a committed relationship with you...period.

Sexually you two seem a mismatch.

I would call it off. Sorry bro.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Dating a woman that had/has a lot of male friends wasn't going to work, isn't going to work and is probably never going to work for you.

Her not dancing with you at a club she use to frequent screams of not wanting certain guys there seeing her as attached.

You're looking for an all-in type of woman. She seems more of an all-me type of girl.

I think that you may be so hung up on the younger/prettier aspect, that you keep over looking the obvious side effects. She has gotten a lot of attention from men. She continues to, whether actively seeking it, or not.

And in some ways, she's not ready to give it up yet(not dancing with you at the club).

The writing's on the wall. Whether you chose to read it, or not.

I'd be looking for a women that also makes me happy, not just makes me horny.


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## Openminded

You are jealous where she's concerned and she makes sure that you are by telling you stuff about her life that she shouldn't. Some of us told you in the beginning about the danger of jumping right away into a heavy new relationship before working on yourself. 

The point is the two of you are just too volatile together. That's not a good dynamic.


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## turnera

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Her not dancing with you at a club she used to frequent screams of not wanting certain guys there seeing her as attached.


Bingo.


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## Lostinthought61

she is not the one for you brother, this will only lead to further issues if you get married....your not yourself because you instill doubt in you and your relationship...time to cut the string on this one. i know its hard but spear yourself further grief down the road.


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## Iver

My totally unprofessional opinion...PTSD. 

Keep up with the IC. Learn what is at the root of the anger and learn how to deal with it.

Oh yeah, if she's p*ssing you off this much she ain't the one for you.


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## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> 08/11/14 Monday..
> 
> Saturday night 8/09/14 I exploded.. It was bad...
> 
> Me and the G.F. went out to dinner to a dinner/dance club/restaurant place.. Basically it has tables and a dance floor and music..
> 
> Its a place I know she has been with her friends and "Guy Friends".. I know she has been there to eat and dance..
> 
> We danced once in the 11 months we have been together.. But She has expressed in the past prior to me about being the first one on the dance floor and going out to places to dance with these friends..
> 
> I am not afraid to dance and I believe I have some rhythm in me so I don't look like a fool on the dance floor..
> 
> We ate, we had 2 drinks each. I asked her to dance several times.. She just said no.. No explanation, Just no..
> 
> Well as you can imagine I started reflecting back on what she told me and in my head it was sure she would dance with her guy friends, but no me.. So why ?
> 
> She knew right near the end before I asked for the check that I was getting pissed.. And said you want to dance, lets dance..
> 
> I told her no.. I don't need your pitty or to do me any favors.. Lets go.. I paid the bill
> 
> Mind you we went to the movies with the kids earlier.. That was $ 65.00, Popcorn and such $ 40.00.. Dinner and drinks $ 185.00.. Parking $ 10.00.. So it was a $ 300.00 dollar night for me.. Not a complaint just putting it out here..
> 
> All I asked was to dance with the woman I love and supposedly loves me.. But I couldn't even get that..
> 
> Nonetheless it doesn't excuse what I did.. *We got outside, we talked but it was slightly heated.. I told her.. No I get it, if your with your guy friends you can go out dancing.. But with me I'm not good enough for you for this.. Fine go the fvck out with your guy friends and leave me the fvck alone..
> 
> We get into the car and now I snap.. I was screaming.. I went insane.. I was pointing at her yelling telling her fvck you.. fvck you and your friends.. *
> 
> I was hurt.. But I shouldn't have imploded like that.. But *I just wanted to let know how mad I was..* How selfish she was or I felt she was.. *Backstory: She changed movie plans from Friday to Saturday and then wanted to cancel going out all together.* Nonetheless she wants to make it like she did everything for me because she didn't want to go out at all and only went out because I wanted to..
> 
> Again I know I was wrong with that rage.. She was afraid.. She never seen me like that..
> 
> I'm ashamed I totally went off the deep end here.. I could have expressed my issues without going nuts..
> 
> I just felt like I was jilted and wasn't good enough like these other guy friends were..
> 
> *I know this is directly stemming from my divorce issues.. Its a no brainer.. *
> 
> G.F. says she loves me but this cannot happen again.. She was upset and crying..
> 
> *This NOT the man I want to be.. I do not want to be the man someone is afraid of..*


Sorry, Hardtohandle, but I'm not buying it that you exploded because you _'just wanted to let her know how mad you were'_ or because of your divorce.

You don't need to lose your temper to let a woman know that you are unhappy with her and there are plenty of guys who had worse divorce experiences than you who don't get enraged when their GFs disappoints them.

If you're serious about not wanting to be the kind of man that people are afraid of, then get some help. Look for a counselor who specializes in anger management.

In the meantime, I agree with the others who suggest you cool it with her for now. The last thing you need is a repeat of this kind of behavior in which you become violent.


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## Hardtohandle

Just trying to respond to everyone here since many are saying the same thing.

First off I just want to express clearly that I was not and will never be violent.. 

I called the therapist had an appointment this monday past. 

Everyone is on the same page me snapping was not good. But him being the professional looked past that to understand why I snapped. 

And again in many ways he echoed what others also said here.

The crux was my ex made me feel like I wasn't good enough for her. But then I felt like I wasn't good enough for my G.F. when it came to this or going out.

But the kicker here was when he asked me why. I expressed that I felt like I was sold a fake bill of good. The G.F. expressed how she would go out many times and it seems like every week end at one point. That she had been here before and went dancing here before. That she would be the first one on the dance floor. ETC.. ETC... Basically she was not shy to dance period.

But why now.. I went over what she expressed as her issues. But he wasn't buying it and neither was I at the time.

The other key thing he said was you just don't believe that she loves you. And you need to believe she does or this will never work for you. 

So the end result of all of this..

I called her monday long before therapy and apologized for what I had did. She basically said I love you.. Lets just forget this but please don't do this again. Lets move on from this..

After therapy 

It was decided between me and the therapist I can bring this up again and try to get some real answers, but I felt it will just end up in a big fight again. 

*Sidenote:* *Not long ago I will admit I snooped in her computer. I was able look at everything. I found nothing suspicious or wrong. Pretty much everything she has mentioned is true. *

So I basically with what I know I decided to be very, very cognizant of what I say. I will fight everything I can to not bring up anything from her past. I will learn to STFU and in turn wait and see what she says.. I will make sure its NOT me.. 

Every time she brings something up I will verbally number it and express my issues with it politely.. Basically it will be something like, this is the 1st time you brought up our past. This is the 2nd time you brought up our past. 

I will then see how much and how long this goes on. If it happens over a period of time I am not happy with I will cut her loose. 

My problem is I can't get out of my own way sometimes in a relationship it seems. 

I just don't want to walk away knowing it was me.. 

Oddly enough the therapist was happy we didn't walk away from each other breaking up, that we were able to talk about it eventually and come to some understanding.. So it was much better than it was in the past. Which is some progress, I hope.

I just want to see where this new approach takes me/us.. 

But regardless of everyones answers, I am always happy that people tell me the truth, even if I don't like it.. Or even respond at all.

*EDIT*

I needed to add in she does not see these guy friends anymore that was cut out lets say 7 or 8 months ago ( we are together 11 months ). Mind you she NEVER seen them while we were together.. As far as I know. They did communicate via FB ( which she closed her account ) and via email and text. 

She pretty much told them don't call me and they don't.. Again from what I know. Though she did get one text and she told me about it ASAP.. The good thing is shows her that its not just a friends thing. She tried to play it off like it was, but when I told her how would YOU feel if I seen that text message from me to a "friend that was a girl". She then lost the fight. I've come to notice that I just need to reverse the roles sometimes on her to make her see the light. 

So the guy friends thing is just something I am hung up on. Plus some other past stuff. 

I need to cut me out of the equation of bring this stuff up.. I need to see is it me stirring the pot or is she bringing me to the pot to stir it ?

I just want to be able to say its not me, It's you.. Either you stop it or we need to break up.


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## turnera

fwiw, I don't think she was thinking she wanted to hook up with anyone else. I just think that she was subconsciously thinking 'oh no, this is where all those other people I know might be, I don't want them coming up to me if I get out there and dance.'

Find a new place.


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## Ripper

Here is my unpopular and unprofessional opinion:

On some level, you aren't buying the reformed "party girl" act. The meltdown was a result of all the mental gymnastics you are doing to justify staying in serious LTR with her.

She's a slvt. You know it. It bothers you. Her "promiscuous" ways have made it impossible for you to completely trust her. Its hard to feel special when you are notch# 347 Subcategory B. This is why you don't get into serious relationships with these type of women.


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## barbados

wow HTH, that sounds like an awful lot of work you have planned to be able to stay with your GF. Shouldn't have to be that hard this early on in a relationship.

I think this is not the right woman for you long term.


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## Lostinthought61

Very impressed HTH, a very introspective look at yourself and your past relationship....it really is scary sometimes how our assessment of ourselves is based on the reflection of how we are valued by others...especially those that emotionally or physically hurt us...i truly wish you and your GF luck....


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

turnera may be right. She may have been worried that if she started dancing with you, some of her past male friends that were there might have asked her to dance while you were both sitting at your table.

She may have been trying to protect you... She may have been trying to protect herself...

If that was the case, she probably shouldn't go to any of these places that she went to in her dating days.

Either way, I think that your heart is leading your head down a rocky road on this one.

You can't think objectively enough to see the true odds on this relationship being good for you. Your gambling with you recovery.

I just hope that this bet pays off for you.

I'm wishing you luck and hope that you do win.


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## soccermom2three

barbados said:


> wow HTH, that sounds like an awful lot of work you have planned to be able to stay with your GF. Shouldn't have to be that hard this early on in a relationship.
> 
> I think this is not the right woman for you long term.


I agree. Relationships take some work but not this much work. It's like you're constantly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. You two just don't fit together.


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## bandit.45

Ripper said:


> Here is my unpopular and unprofessional opinion:
> 
> On some level, you aren't buying the reformed "party girl" act. The meltdown was a result of all the mental gymnastics you are doing to justify staying in serious LTR with her.
> 
> She's a slvt. You know it. It bothers you. Her "promiscuous" ways have made it impossible for you to completely trust her. Its hard to feel special when you are notch# 347 Subcategory B. This is why you don't get into serious relationships with these type of women.


I get what you're saying. But from what I have seen a lot of these women who were promiscuous during their single years actually settle down and do pretty well with monogamy because, for lack of a better description, they got their wh0ring out of their system and settled on the man they wanted to be with. Not always the case but most of the time.

Having said this, I still do not think this woman is a good match for H2H. She's got too much sordid history and he is way too wounded.


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## Ripper

bandit.45 said:


> were promiscuous during their single years actually settle down and do pretty well with monogamy


It is possible, but it seems like a big risk to just end up here in a few years.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/151474-you-did-other-men-but-not-me.html


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## carmen ohio

Ripper said:


> Here is my unpopular and unprofessional opinion:
> 
> On some level, you aren't buying the reformed "party girl" act. The meltdown was a result of all the mental gymnastics you are doing to justify staying in serious LTR with her.
> 
> She's a slvt. You know it. It bothers you. Her "promiscuous" ways have made it impossible for you to completely trust her. Its hard to feel special when you are notch# 347 Subcategory B. This is why you don't get into serious relationships with these type of women.





bandit.45 said:


> I get what you're saying. But from what I have seen a lot of these women who were promiscuous during their single years actually settle down and do pretty well with monogamy because, for lack of a better description, they got their wh0ring out of their system and settled on the man they wanted to be with. Not always the case but most of the time.
> 
> Having said this, I still do not think this woman is a good match for H2H. She's got too much sordid history and he is way too wounded.


Sorry, bandit, but there is a strong correlation between premarital promiscuity and marriage problems (including infidelity and divorce). See:

Causation or correlation: women with higher partner counts divorce and cheat more « Random Xpat Rantings

Premarital Sex and Greater Risk of Divorce - Focus on the Family

The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk

The Social Pathologist: Promiscuity Data: Guest Post.

Have to say, this round goes to Ripper.


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## warlock07

Ripper said:


> Here is my unpopular and unprofessional opinion:
> 
> On some level, you aren't buying the reformed "party girl" act. The meltdown was a result of all the mental gymnastics you are doing to justify staying in serious LTR with her.
> 
> She's a slvt. You know it. It bothers you. Her "promiscuous" ways have made it impossible for you to completely trust her. Its hard to feel special when you are notch# 347 Subcategory B. This is why you don't get into serious relationships with these type of women.


I agree, only with lesser insulting terms. The last para was un-necessary.


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## Openminded

My take on this from the first post you related about her is that you are very into the way she looks and feel she's above you. You jumped way too soon into a serious relationship with her. You ARE a very wounded person. That was the purpose of suggesting that you not get serious and instead heal before getting so involved in a new relationship. Now you can see why it was suggested.


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## darkdays

She isn't a good person. She isn't a good mother. She isn't a good wife. She has been looking to hook up with other men and fantasizing about leaving you since the beginning. A good mom doesn't go out looking for relationships with other men knowing it will end the family.

Its painful but I would move on. A one time thing maybe R but multiple times plus she says she doesn't love you.

I would believe her. Do you think she is giving you 100 percent?? That she is giving you 50 percent?? she is out there banging another man probably laughing at you. YOU my friend are a paycheck that's it. Your paying so your wife has the time to go f other men. NOT so she can create a loving home for you and your kids. BE DONE with her.


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## Hardtohandle

darkdays said:


> She isn't a good person. She isn't a good mother. She isn't a good wife. She has been looking to hook up with other men and fantasizing about leaving you since the beginning. A good mom doesn't go out looking for relationships with other men knowing it will end the family.
> 
> Its painful but I would move on. A one time thing maybe R but multiple times plus she says she doesn't love you.
> 
> I would believe her. Do you think she is giving you 100 percent?? That she is giving you 50 percent?? she is out there banging another man probably laughing at you. YOU my friend are a paycheck that's it. Your paying so your wife has the time to go f other men. NOT so she can create a loving home for you and your kids. BE DONE with her.


DD I think you got a bit lost here in the thread.. It is understandable though, its long and convoluted..

As for some of the other comments. I think they are out of line but this is the internet.. So I get it.. 

Just to make it clear there are no guy friends lurking around and she isn't going out with anyone beyond me.. No friends of any sort.. She isn't the friendship type of girl.. Russian women seem to be odd in this department. It seems no one likes any sort of competition. Basically if you get too much attention you get cut from the group. Again its just jealous women stuck with some sort of vanity issue. 

My last 2 sessions were very helpful and I've grounded myself a bit more. I'm starting to see or learn about her own insecurity issues and I am learning on how to deal with it. 

The good thing for *NOW* is I'm sort of in a zone of like I know I am about to die so I am just mellow about it. Basically embracing the death so to speak. 

She had a birthday party for her daughter and it was me and her Ex and his GF with other family. It was odd for me, I had my 2 boys there but again just odd and very uncomfortable. I felt I couldn't be myself and felt like the odd man out. I just knew I couldn't compete with her dad and neither should I try to.

At the end of the night when we were together I told her that was my first and last time doing that. No yelling, no screaming. Just it how I felt and next year she could do it without me or my kids. No hard feelings.. 

She agreed it was odd and would be the last time. She thought that is what would make her daughter happy. I told her he could have his own party for her and that is what divorce is about. Kids end up with 2 birthday parties now. I told her if she feels she could find someone else who would be cool with it then by all means I am not stopping her. But I doubt she will find anyone who is *THAT UNDERSTANDING*. Again no complaints beyond she expressed she didn't like me telling her to go find someone else. But she understood and it was the last time for something like that.

Again I am looking at this now and just seeing how it goes. She can clearly see the more calmer person in me. Even for her its unsettling. She even asked me if I was evaluating her. She expressed her worries and some heart felt emotions about not losing me. Was nice to hear honestly. I did play it cool regardless. Its a WIP (*W*ork *I*n *P*rogress) atm, so lets see how it goes from here.

Some of this stuff I won't address as I think people are just way off base or I am expressing myself poorly. Regardless I am not going to get into some internet fight over poor reading or poor writing or both... 

Regardless I know everyone is looking out for me and that is all that matters.. No one is looking to see me fail or is not looking to see me happy because they might not be ATM (I Hope)


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/19/14 Tuesday

Yesterday I went to family court to change the stipulation ( Stip as they call it ) to say that my youngest son permanently lives with me and to terminate child support.

The Ex wife agreed, so they now officially live with me and I know now there is nothing she can ever do to change it. Unless I screw things up with my kids.. Which isn't gonna happen..

BUT........................... Then the Judge asked the million dollar question.

I am assuming you will be looking for support from your Ex wife.. Let me see her income. Oh, yes you can... Do you know where to file ?

My Ex had the look of shock on her face.. 

She wasn't happy in the least when my brother served her later that day..

Oct 29th is the next date.. Lets see where this goes..


----------



## farsidejunky

Awesome H2H! You sound much better. As for the ex? That had to feel REALLY good...


----------



## turnera

Wow! A father-friendly judge! Way to go!


----------



## karole

A friend of mine took his ex back to court to change custody. He also got primary custody and his ex has to pay him child support. So, it does happen more these days.


----------



## Divinely Favored

turnera said:


> fwiw, I don't think she was thinking she wanted to hook up with anyone else. I just think that she was subconsciously thinking 'oh no, this is where all those other people I know might be, I don't want them coming up to me if I get out there and dance.'
> 
> Find a new place.


exactly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/29/14 Friday..

Not gonna get into it. Just bummed out and sad.. I might eventually but just not in the mood ATM... 

I blame my Ex for putting me in this position of dating.. 

They say there are 4 women to every man.. Well I will give up my other 3 to anyone else for 1 decent woman.

I hate these feelings. I hate that September is *THE MONTH*.. It always was September... Why I have no clue.. 

I hate feeling sad and heart broken.. I know it gets better and I have been through worse but these feelings are just rough..


----------



## turnera

handle, my advice is to not focus on getting a woman, ok? Focus instead on finding fun things to do in your life and, along the way, you'll meet a woman who enjoys the same things you do. Meetup.com, or join a club, or take a class...


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## Openminded

Okay, I'm going to assume this relates to your girlfriend again. I know you don't want to hear it, and you get defensive once you're over the immediate drama, but it just doesn't appear the two of you are right for each other. A relationship shouldn't be this difficult. If it doesn't relate to your girlfriend this time, please disregard. But if it does, please consider what we say.


----------



## barbados

turnera said:


> handle, my advice is to not focus on getting a woman, ok? Focus instead on finding fun things to do in your life and, along the way, you'll meet a woman who enjoys the same things you do. Meetup.com, or join a club, or take a class...


Its great advice Tunera, but its is very hard for many people, M or F, to do this. But those who do I think are better off.


----------



## turnera

Why would it be hard? Are they in the middle of a jungle or something?


----------



## happyman64

Patience HTH.

Good things will happen in time.


----------



## barbados

turnera said:


> Why would it be hard? Are they in the middle of a jungle or something?


I should have only quoted the first part of your post. I meant focusing on yourself and not another person to be happy.


----------



## turnera

Oh, lol. That makes much more sense!


----------



## Hardtohandle

Thanks for the responses.. 

I am going to find the time to express what is going on in a way that makes sense.. But for now let me just say it's me having insecurity issues, hold grudges, taking things to heart and not letting things go. 

I can say that the weekend was good as far as talking with the G.F. and expressing some things on how I perceived them. She was good in expressing how I made her feel with the insecurities and basically putting her in a panic around other men even if I wasn't doing anything. There were some misunderstandings about things and timeline issues which were worked out on both ends. 

I am too worried about getting hurt and looking to jump ship at any slight chance of getting hurt. 

I am still looking to punish my Ex wife, even though most things are settled. Even though this child support is chump change I am still looking to hurt her. 

In many ways I am better, but I have this anger in me I need to let go and not transfer onto someone else along with my insecurities. 

The G.F. doesn't walk away scott free here. She is at fault for certain things as well. But I need to learn how to control me. 

Its like having a werewolf inside you trying to escape. There are days I am great at keeping him in check and then he breaks out and makes enough trouble to equal the good days.

Hopefully someone else one day will come along and learn something from all of this.


----------



## turnera

This is why we tell people not to date after separation or divorce for at least a year, and sometimes 2 or 3 years.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> This is why we tell people not to date after separation or divorce for at least a year, and sometimes 2 or 3 years.


I won't argue this one bit. 

At this point it is what it is.. Even the G.F. has said, *OH NO... You think I am putting all this work in to fix you for someone else ? You are out of your mind. *

She has commented that basically I am going to beat her up emotionally and use her as a punching bag. Learn what not to do in a new relationship and then move on with someone new. 

Honestly I can understand what she is saying. 

Even the therapist at one point mentioned this, but also said this is what we have now and this is what we need to deal with. But if you break up with this one, I want you to be alone for a bit so we can work on this.

Deep down I know she is good for me. I know I blew a few things out of the water. But I need to shake that *"What if she leaves"* feeling. 

She knows I have that feeling too. She tells me you think I want to put my kids into this situation as well ? She has faith in me that I will realize certain things for what they are.


----------



## Hardtohandle

09/03/14 Wednesday 

Okay here is one of the issues. But let me preface it with this.

I don't think about my Ex at ALL. I don't daydream about what if. If I did this or should have done this, we would be together.

I am not pining for my Ex at ALL. For a multitude of reasons that I can express I am better off without her, emotionally, financially, sexually, ETC.... 

But I can't let the anger go.. I've been told I need to let the anger go and just live my life.. But my Ex just gets under my skin with her nonsense.

I typed up the story but deleted it because even I see its retarded as I previewed it.

The nutshell of it all is she had conflict before the summer picking up my youngest from school. She used to drop him off and pick him up. But then had issues picking him up. Unfortunately the issues were sporadic and last minute and it fell on me to get my son or have someone pick him up. So I made a command decision and just gave my older brother a car and had him pick up my son from school. 

What annoyed me then was she made the arrangements to pick him up and drop him off. It was her choice, not mine.. I didn't argue or fight it. 

BUT when she couldn't pick him up it suddenly became my issue. When I expressed that she couldn't keep telling me last minute, she commented, if I knew it was gonna be such an issue, I would have arraigned something myself. 

I told her if it wasn't an issue and you had more common sense you would have done that.. But instead you just dropped this on my lap last minute repeatedly. I just got so annoyed that she just pawns stuff off and then acts like its not a big deal. 

So this time around I just assume my brother is getting my youngest from school. My ex just decides to make an issue out of it and tells me she is picking him up on her days and I can pick him up on the other days. 

But to get to this point I had to ask 20 questions instead of her just telling me I no longer have this job or everything has been fixed so I can pick him up as before. 

Mind you this is all via text. Midway through a text I just called her. It was just too painful to continue with this nonsense. 

I just can't explain it.. It's just this kunty attitude she has.. Like I cheated or did something wrong. I just want to reach through the phone sometimes..

She would be more than happy if I just acted like everything was cool. 

To me she never apologized for anything she did or even worse how she did it. She just didn't have an affair, it was totally her exit strategy that destroyed any little friendship we might have had left. I even expressed it to her months before she was leaving how painful and wrong she was and that it wasn't necessary. But she did it anyways.. 

So to me I have no reason to be nice or civil to her. She lied to anyone who would believe her. When my own mother in law has to defend me to this day to her own sisters I know something isn't right. 

So this is why I can't let this anger go. 

I know the child support is going to be bullsh!t.. If she is working 2 jobs I might get 700 a month if she is only working 1 maybe 200 to 300. 

I haven't had any help from her since January 2013 and I even paid her child support for 6 months even though my kids lived with me. Never did she say keep it or write me a check back.. Only when I called her out on it and told her I would drag her loser boyfriend into court did she do anything about it.

I just feel she has done nothing to win my kindness. So to me this child support is a fvck you to her and the other man. With zero debt they still were having issues paying 1800 a month in rent. So I know child support will surely put a kink into their financial plans. Not that they had any to start with anyways. 

To me my only 2 choices with her are begging for forgiveness for being such an A$$hole or for her to be completely out of my life and my kids lives.. She already is out of one of my kids lives, but even dealing with her over one son is a pain in the A$$.. Mind you I don't mean begging to come back. Just realizing what a horrible person she was and how unnecessary it was. 

Again I told her this in the past, so it's not like she doesn't know what the tension is about. 

I put myself in her shoes and I just wouldn't have done things like this. The last thing I would have wanted to do is alienate the father of my kids unnecessarily. I would have told the other man I need to be polite as possible. I mean really she is leaving me for him.. He should realize in one way, shape or fashion he won.. Why won't she or him or both just allow this to be as friendly as possible. 

Even if I was the other man I would be pushing my GF to be as civil as possible with her STBXH.. 

To me I think he is happy we don't get along because he has less fear of her coming back or me trying to win her back. I remember when he called the house looking for her once. I was pissed but later on I realized that he was worried, worried enough to make the call.

So to me its like I am the focus of their fvck you's.. Basically I am the enemy to them. So they are in turn the enemy to me and my family..

You know if she just said I'm sorry and was sincere about it I would be fvcked.. I couldn't hold this over her head.. She could then turn it around on me afterwards and just call me out on it for being angry to be just angry..

So no matter how much someone says I need to let this go and be happy. I can't.. I can be happy but I will look to screw her if I can. I don't go out of my way.. But when the judge asks do I want child support ? I will say heck yea... even if I don't really, really need it.

But has anyone figured out a way to just let this all go ? Just say fvck it.. My Ex is a d0cuhe and will always be a d0uche but I am just gonna let this go. Has it worked ? I feel its like basically internalizing it. So it eats me up inside but don't show it or it causes me to act out in other ways like kick my dog..

To be honest I already have issues that are causing me to act out, I don't need more.


----------



## turnera

How to let it go? Have a better life than her. From the sound of it, you don't, because you're stuck in yet another relationship in which you are forced to intertwine your crap with hers, so...when do you just be you?


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## Hardtohandle

09/19/14 Friday.. 

Nothing really bad.. Just had a stupid fight last night.. Partially my fault for not shutting the fvck up.. 

For whatever reason that I can't figure out yet why it hit me a bit more than I wanted to. I just don't want to fight this time and she is upset.. 

And trust me I can fight and argue.. I can drag sh!t out.. 

On the Ex wife frontier. I found out she quit her teacher assistant job with the city so I guess I was wrong about benefits and money being the issue. So I am guessing child support will be based off her 10 hours or so a week job.. 

I can only imagine if it was ME doing that I would be called a deadbeat dad not looking to support his kids.. 

Can the courts tell her to work more ? I don't see and doubt it but just wonder..


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## turnera

Some states do require the wife to get a real job and base CS on her doing that.


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## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Some states do require the wife to get a real job and base CS on her doing that.


Thanks Turnera, I just happen to read that myself. I guess the courts figured this stuff out as well. 

On a side note..
I think me and the GF are addicted to fighting and making up... She mentioned it to me and I was thinking that as well earlier.. So we are exploring this possibility.. The therapist mentioned it to me as well a while back. 

We took up going out dancing, so we are having some fun with each other and getting a workout as well. My legs are killing me. We literally are dancing for hours on the floor. Its club/house music.. Its pretty cool. Haven't done something like that in 20 years.. 

We might go see Rock of Ages this weekend. 

I tell you the one thing I learned about all of this is I could have done this with the EX wife.. 

I think part of all this divorce sh!t is people don't see this until its too late.. It's all good though, I don't regret the divorce as it was the right thing to do.. Something was wrong with my Ex wife that I just could not fix, she wasn't a mean person and was very caring beyond this whole affair stuff. Its strange, honestly.. 

But Great lessons learned me and the GF realized if we can this stuff while apart in 2 different homes, we can do it together in one home. 

Don't freak out as its not happening right now. But it will happen. We are committed to making this work and figuring out what makes us both snap. 

I mentioned this before, I am a big on the past predicts the future type person. The Therapist tells me I can't keep thinking like that. But he also realizes that the GF needs to shut up about her past even if its 20+ years ago and before she was married. 

I am also looking to get us back into shape. I think the GF getting back some of her former figure will calm her down a bit as well. She acts like a fleeting beauty queen sometimes upset over her looks. 

As for me it will put me in better shape. I need it as well because I don't want to gain back the 85LBS I lost and want to lose maybe 15 to 20 more pounds. 

Work wise I applied for this job my friend is at. He will be my boss. I'm very excited as its a fresh start for me and I am pretty much done with the Police Department. 

I've been here 24 years and the last 2 have been the worst. My bosses took my divorce worse than I did.. My depression didn't help much and they really didn't understand it either.. My friends/coworkers all say I went from hero to zero overnight here. They even tried to set it all straight, but it just fell on deaf ears..

So I think this new job will give me the fresh start I need. I think the infuse of income will keep me very motivated as well. 

I'm just lingering around until Oct 29th for this family court child support thing to happen..

Another thing that popped into my head I want to tell you all about.

Last week Tuesday and Thursday I had open school for my 2 boys.. The GF came with me to both as I went with her to her daughters one..

The youngest being in elementary school only really has 1 or 2 teachers.. So not much there and all Females.. 

But guess what.. 
1 *male* faculty members needed to make sure my GF was going the right way to see my kids class. 
The teachers spoke to her at first until she told them I was the parent. 

I got a letter in the mail that was addressed dear mother or Guardian.. I am going to look for it and post it here. I meant to do that a while back. 

Now Thursday is my oldest new H.S. 
Well do I need to tell you ? I didn't exist when speaking to the male teachers.. 
And not ONE, but THREE male faculty wanted to make sure my GF was going the right way or even if MY son was in his class. I was walking by one class and the male teacher just called out to us to "see" our program in case my son was in his class, because he wanted to step out and didn't want to miss us.. Mind you he didn't ask anyone else walking by in the hallway. 

I told the GF from now on when I need something and its a man, I am going to make you do the talking.. I give up.. 

Part of me is pissed, not at her mind you.. But because now that I am this SINGLE PARENT and the father I want to be acknowledged.. I get that it is usually the mother at these things but even after telling them I am the father this is my "friend" pointing to my GF I still don't exist. 

I know its a stupid thing and if these were my issues in life I should be happy and just STFU.. But just needed to vent over this nonsense. I'm not mad, but I find it ironically funny..


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## Hardtohandle

10/29/14 Wednesday..

Went to family court today for child support from my Ex wife..

She was ordered to pay 210 a month for now and was told to find a full time job or a supplemental job before our next court date in January.

The judge wasn't hard on her but did question what she did on the hours and days she didn't work.. The judge made a face when my Ex responded that she did nothing on the days she wasn't working. 

I didn't bring anything up yet.. I had to fill out paperwork myself and I hope they read and see that I mentioned she does not have contact with my oldest son. Regardless I will definitely bring everything up in January regardless.


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## happyman64

good for you.


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## Hardtohandle

10/30/14 Thursday..

I'm just venting.. 

G.F. gave me an issue.. Its dumb ****, but I just feel like I am on notice, that she is ready to break up with me if she feels things aren't right.. 

So in turn I get defensive and want to counterstrike and just tell her you're on notice too or as a matter of fact we are done.. 

Then the Ex wife... 

Son has a fever today and I tell her because she brings him to school everyday and she comes from Staten Island to get him into Brooklyn.. So I do the right thing to tell her so she can go home or not pay the toll for the bridge, assuming I got her in time.. Regardless how I feel I want to do the right thing or at least appear to be doing the right thing..

Nonetheless she is offering to take him to the doctor in staten island, which I can only assume means she will want to keep him at her house.. To me I smell Ulterior motive and start thinking she wants to be with him more so she can go to court in January and say I cannot take care of my son and she needs to be home for him..

I flat out tell her I don't trust her and she has done nothing to gain my trust.. Thus anything she says I consider there is an ulterior motive behind it.. 

With that being said I will bring my son the the Brooklyn office that they have been going to for their entire lives.. 

She proceeds to tell me how she does not give a fvck what I think about her.. I correct her and tell her I don't care about her, but her motives and when she gets that and understand that things will be better. 

She of course tells me how she doesn't miss my long winded speeches.. I retort back, I don't miss anything about you.. 

I then reminded her she should care about both kids and not just one.. She responds back they won't be 14 and 9 forever.. 

I again made it clear I never poisoned the kids against her. 

I expressed that she was a bit dim witted not catching the judges sarcasm about her not working or for working the same hours for the last 17 years.. 

It sounded dumb her telling the judge, because the judge I think like myself was probably wondering *"Okay I get you only worked 12 hours a week when you were married, but you're not married anymore. You don't have your kids with you.. Go to work"*

I then finished off with I will let you go because it seems you must be busy looking for a job and must have a long day ahead of you.


Look I know, trust me, I know I have it good. Getting 210 a month from my Ex wife is 1000 times better than me paying her 2k a month and losing a bunch of other stuff along with it like many other men have during a divorce.. I know my situation is sort of unique. So in the grand scheme of things I should be happy these are my problems.. 

Let me digress by telling you I've been really hard trying to implement some stuff in therapy, especially being calm and not going into a rage.. 

So as I transfer stuff from the G.F. computer to an external hard drive a zip file that comes listed as an attachment is marked Dec 15, 2013. While we were dating.. I of course click the zip and see its a picture of my G.F. in a dress. It not flattering at all and it makes her look heavy and she has no make up on.. Again NOT the pic I would send to a guy if I was trying to make an impression and its clearly not the type of pic she would send to someone, knowing that full well. 

Nonetheless I get tense and then decide to stop get off the computer and get back on the couch with her and let this go.. First off I have no evidence other than a picture ( which is a bad one at that ) and I am not and refusing to connect dots that don't exist.. I just am NOT going to go down this road because I know where it takes me..

So I go on the couch and rub her back.. She mentions to me about her trusting me and me looking at her computer.. I calmly and I mean calmly mention the picture.. I say something along the lines, funny you mention that because I seen this pic of you that is listed as an attachment.. She gets tense herself and wants to see the picture.. I explain its not a big deal and its not an issue. At no time am I yelling or getting upset.. 

But of course she gets upset.. It is as if I was yelling at her and she was fighting back.. But I just wasn't.. I am telling her let it go.. I am not making a big deal out of it so just let it go.. She won't.. 

She swears up and down that she never met anyone or had any sort of other man or that she ever spoke with anyone.. 

I told her its okay and to let it go.. But she feels I was being calm to make her feel guilty.. 

Therapist apologized and told me not to give up because doing the right thing backfired on me.. Which I clearly understood.

There was another instance like this and it backfired as well.

I basically explained to the GF, when I do right.. Pat me on the head like a dog, give me a donut and tell me I did good.. But don't beat me up for it.. 

I don't know.. I should be happy and instead I feel like sh!t and really down.. I just keep thinking this divorce just made me lose my center, my grounding and I just won't get it back..


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## turnera

You'll get it back. But maybe you shouldn't be dating. It's masking things; you just traded one set of problems for another. I fully believe that people learn and grow and change the most when they are alone and have only themselves to deal with. Even your therapist told you this.


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## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> You'll get it back. But maybe you shouldn't be dating. It's masking things; you just traded one set of problems for another. I fully believe that people learn and grow and change the most when they are alone and have only themselves to deal with. Even your therapist told you this.


I honestly can't cut her lose.. She has dealt with so much from me honestly.. I'm not the kind of guy to toss relationships aside because of issues.. I work to try to fix it until the bitter end.. As long as I have feelings for someone its worth the effort and fight for me.. 

You know in hindsight I shouldn't have taken this sh!t to heart and just should have played it off much easier, but I'm this emotional ball.. I need to learn how to reign this stuff in..

I'm good most of the time, but I just think going to court with my Ex wife just puts unwanted stress on me.. I get that I can't believe I am here doing this sh!t with this women feeling..


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## bfree

You have to get your ex wife outa your head. She's going to poison you and every relationship you'll ever have. Detach, detach, detach.


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## Hardtohandle

11/17/14 Monday

Just having a bad day.. Broke down crying.. 

Both boys called me, started at 7 AM with my youngest eye bothering him. His mother takes him on Monday and Tuesdays so I let her handle it. Then the oldest calls me with similar issues. He mentioned symptoms of a migraine yesterday, but of course it was after he got off the computer and took a shower and going to bed for school on Monday.. Of course he seems to always have some sort of Monday illness as well. 

Of course at the same time I am at work dealing with some bullsh!t my boss left me intentionally just to break my balls. Which is annoying. It just seems since my Divorce my boss took it more personal than me. I've tried to stay out of his way and have no issues ( eg no one complaining about my work ) but he looks to stick it to me every chance he gets.. Almost 2 years of this sh!t is wearing me thin.. 

Waiting on a job interview to leave but its so dam slow its killing me.

Its just hard to deal with the kids over the phone alone.. Being at home and in person its much easier to call the kids out on it.. Plus its harder for them to pull these stunts. But on the other hand suffering from migraines I completely understand, they just come when you don't expect it..

I just don't want my son to fvck up in school. He is doing so good and just don't want any issues for him. 

Just getting worn down.. Its hard on my mom as well, she is sick also and she tries to help out.. 

Just feeling the pressure..


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## turnera

Sounds like you need some support. Friends, family, organization?


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## happyman64

HTH

I have bad days too.

But instead of crying I get mad. It motivates me.

I have turned my boss into my secretary. Instead of him dumping on me he asks me what else he can do to help me. 

The more I sell the more $$$ he makes.

Maybe you can both work together like that. My boss is now awesome....

As far as your boys I will gladly trade them for my 3 girls (13,14,20).

Only then will understand the true meaning of the word *drama.* 

But seriously you need to communicate with them, love them and encourage them to grow up and handle problems on their own. 

Being there for them on a daily basis is the what you are doing so keep doing it.

Maybe you need to just unwind and have a beer. With a friend.

I am in my NYC office on 38th & 8th 2-3 days a week.

Just let me know. 

HM


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## LongWalk

The injustice of it all is hard to take. In a way though, as you observed earlier, you are fortunate that your ex has not taken responsibility upon herself. You don't have to worry about seeing cry and plead to reconcile. She didn't just affair down, she demoted herself in many respects. A lot of her failings were probably there while you were married but you didn't confront them. Now you don't have to carry that extra load. See that as a blessing.

Have you read Acoa's thread? His ex could have changed things if she had gotten a job and shown remorse. At the end she lacks the insight to see what she should do.

Sometimes I imagine that certain cheaters has flashes of insight. They realize what they need to do to begin to repair the situation but it's work. Even eating humble pie is work. And then as Machiavelli would say, the rationalization hamster starts running. They tell themselves that they don't love the betrayed spouse enough to make the humiliation worth it.

Actually they don't respect themselves enough to see that love is something that can be rebuilt, not always but at least sometimes. Road Scholar's wife got it in the end. She grovels to ease his pain, although that was never her style.

You and HappyMan are in the Big Apple. It would be funny if you could meet up with ReGroup for a beer.


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## Hardtohandle

12/03/14 Wednesday..

A few weeks back, my ex wife asked my youngest one of the several school pictures he took. Mind you she didn't ask me.. She puts my 9 year old in the middle of it.

He asked my mom to cut him a picture for his mother and my mom immediately said, you need to ask daddy first before I do anything like that. 

Here is the issue for me. 

On picture day I put my son in a short sleeve shirt and it was a warm Oct day.. 

My Ex for the first time gets upset over paying child support and lashes out. During this argument over things, she commented that the shirt I gave my son was too small to put on and that I should know my son's shirt size..

The pictures cost me $45.00.. Not a big deal..

Never once did she offer to pay half.

Now flash forward to her asking for a picture.. 

To me I found it odd that she would want a picture of her son in what she called a small shirt. My only notion was she wanted the picture so she could show it off to her BF and his family to ridicule me in some way. 

Nonetheless, on that day I told my son to get the order sheet and give it to his mom, which he did. He told me later after I asked him if he gave her the sheet. That she tossed it in her backseat like she didn't care and was annoyed..

Some people said I should have given her the picture. Honestly part of me wanted to, but again she has never ever done anything out of being kind for me. She has yet to look out for me in any way. So my mentality was fvck her.. She complained about the picture. You want one so bad to make fun of me or it then buy one.. Its gonna cost you money to ridicule me.

Of course monday I decided to give him a picture to give to his mom. He forgot it though, so she will get it next week.

But now I am expecting at least a text message to say thank you, which I am pretty sure I will NOT get.. I will not message her anything like your welcome for the picture, but will hold it as possible ammo for our January court date. Again its not earth shattering but just to show her mental state to the judge in all of this.

I want to be able to at least say I extended an olive branch and she knocked it down. 

Going back to my last post about feeling down..

I spoke with my friend about my son. We discussed his school. He basically told me if hes doing great in school then cut him some slack.. If he misses a day and he's doing good don't look to break his balls.. 

That Thursday was parent / teacher night.. I got his report card. All his grades were in the 90s.. 2 teachers told me he was the highest grade in the class. Very amazing to have that kid to be honest.

Nutshell my friend was right.. 

As for the rest thanks for the support. I have no clue why I felt down. I think it was a holiday thing and we were going out to dinner. I was nervous over it.. Usually the Ex wife and mom would cook. Relative would come over.. All that has changed.

HM once I am out of her I will take you up on your offer. I'm just so tired of being a Cop.. I'm just waiting for this computer forensic interview. I just hope I get it and be out of here. I will be working with a man I consider my brother, who is a great guy and helped me a lot through my divorce and dark days.. I owe him and I would be great to be his right hand man and have his back at this new place. 

The GF scene is great. Much of our silly troubles have subsided. WE BOTH realized we are in it for the long haul and that one is looking to cheat or fvck around on anyone here.

Oddly enough I have never had someone so much into me. She really expresses a lot of love towards me. How much she thinks about me. How devastated she would be if we broke up.. 

Even sexually she is like a guy sometimes. Again something I am not used to for a long time. 

I clearly tell her I love you, but sometimes I feel bad because at times it feels lopsided because she expresses so much more to me. 

Its just a strange turn of events, because of all the crazy silly fights we had. 

Yet another issue coming up..

Tonight I go to a wake for a relative.. I know my Ex wife Aunt and Uncle will be there.. 

They pretty ignored me and my kids and sort of pushed that my Ex wife was afraid of me and that there might be more to the story then what I am saying.. My mother in law had to defend me and basically tell them to get some common sense.. That they know me and that if I was so bad, why didn't she take the kids and why are the kids with me..

So tonight I will probably see them. My intention is to be polite because it is a wake and just say a distant hello but no kissing or hugging as we used to. I am positive they will catch the hint and my mom will be with me and will do the same. My mom is also upset because they would come over for the holidays and such and is aware that they pretty much cut me and the kids out..

I find it funny how they stick by a niece that has cut them out as well and hasn't seen them in almost 2 years as well. Basically if they comment to me about anything, my thought is just to say, you made your choice and now you have to live with it.


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## happyman64

HTH

Can I make a suggestion to you?

Be the better man.

Not only say hello to her aunt and uncle but extend them a warm greeting and let them know they are still part of your family.

Tell them that you and the kids miss them.

Be honest, open and they will walk away wondering why their niece is a nut job.

Use them to your advantage. What more does it take to be nice? Nothing.

Stranger things in life have happened.

HM


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## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> HTH
> 
> Can I make a suggestion to you?
> 
> Be the better man.
> 
> Not only say hello to her aunt and uncle but extend them a warm greeting and let them know they are still part of your family.
> 
> Tell them that you and the kids miss them.
> 
> Be honest, open and they will walk away wondering why their niece is a nut job.
> 
> Use them to your advantage. What more does it take to be nice? Nothing.
> 
> Stranger things in life have happened.
> 
> HM


All of this was a moot point.. Eric Garner verdict kept me at work for 18 hours each day for 3 days.. So I missed the wake completely.. My mom couldn't go because she was watching my kids..


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## Clay2013

I have had to deal with the photo with my kids. There mother has demanded she get half the photos. I sent her a envelope with all the copies of medical bills she has not payed her half on. She does not complain anymore. I is amazing how they feel entitled to everything when they are not even the primary care taker of the children. 

I agree with HM on the wake just take the high road. I never let the xW get me down. I just am just thankful I am raising my kids. 

Just remember you are the better person. 

Clay


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## happyman64

Hardtohandle said:


> All of this was a moot point.. Eric Garner verdict kept me at work for 18 hours each day for 3 days.. So I missed the wake completely.. My mom couldn't go because she was watching my kids..


Then if you feel like it extend the olive branch one time or send a Xmas card with a pic of you and the kids to them.

As they say "Tis the Season"


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## Hardtohandle

01/15/15 Thursday..

Just going through some emotional issues. Came here to just write them down and get them off my chest.. 

I went to family court on Tuesday and the judge ordered my Ex wife to basically pay more child support come march.. I honestly don't know how much it is or recall since I was just too busy crying.. I felt sad for her, I know I shouldn't but I did.. I know she doesn't have the money to pay.. 

I told her in court while in tears it didn't have to be this way. She made some comment, again I don't recall what it was and the judge reprimanded her for saying what she did. 

Its amazing how mad she is at me and just doesn't get why I was upset. I get the whole I just got fvcked in the a$$ so fvck you mentality, but another part has to understand or at least be confused why is this guy upset over this ? Shouldn't he be happy ?

Of course Tuesday the girlfriend of a year and a half decided to break up at 4 AM with me... It was utter nonsense.. But that added to my emotional state in court. 

Unfortunately these emotions just bring me back to my divorce state of almost 2 years.. These types of emotions are really hard to deal with for me.. I'm just a wreck and find it hard to function. 

I hate feeling this way. It puts me in a downward spiral that just becomes very difficult to pull out of, or at least I go down further then I would like to before coming back up.. It feels like I need to hit bedrock before I can get back up.. 

But it's just amazing how everything was good and suddenly something stupid got into her head in within 8 hours from monday night to tuesday morning I was cut out. I just don't get it..

In reflection I have to say I do get it, but just don't want to accept it. This was something simmering with her and it was just the straw that broke the camels back type of thing..

I wasn't happy with somethings as well but I just figured these were things that we needed to work out and understand about each other. I don't know honestly.. Maybe I am that dense and stupid.. Maybe I just don't get it. .Maybe I'm too old fashioned.. Maybe I just always have been fvcked up and my Ex wife just could take it longer than others could.. Who the fvck knows.. 

Am I fvcking up my kids now ? 
Are they gonna inherit this "craziness" of mine ?

I feel like I need therapy 5 days a week instead of one.. 

This is gonna fvck up my work again, I just know it.. 

My simple fantasy is not to win the lottery. It's just to be with someone and be happy. Don't get me wrong, I can be alone.. But I know what I will revert to being alone.. I don't want to be that guy.. I could retire today and be home and do nothing, but I know I have to work just to do something or I will be stagnant. I know me..

You know I can tell you I honestly enjoyed laying down next to her and sleeping and feeling her next to me at night.. It was just a great feeling to have.. Sometimes I would wake up and just look at her sleep for a bit before falling back to sleep myself.. It was strange.. 

I would cry sometimes when making love because of these overwhelming emotions I would have.. 

Relationships have become so cheap.. I think once some people are divorced or going through a divorce, they no longer have the energy or will to fight for something.. 

Its like some just don't see the value anymore in it.. 

Is this what my kids will get out of this ? I hope not.. 

Goddam I hate these fvcking feelings..


----------



## turnera

Before I finish reading, I just want to make sure I point this out.



Hardtohandle said:


> I went to *family court on Tuesday*
> 
> I was just too busy *crying*.. I *felt sad for her*, I know I shouldn't but I did.
> 
> Of course *Tuesday *the girlfriend of a year and a half decided to *break up at 4 AM with me*... It was utter nonsense..


As people keep telling people (and this is for everyone reading's benefit as much as yours), don't go straight into a relationship. Take a year, two years, 5 years if you need it, off from relationships, have fun, don't get attached..._cos you ain't over the ex_. It will blow up on you 9 times out of 10. You may get temporary relief but you are masking the problems and they're just sitting there under the surface waiting. And your new flame is getting the brunt of it whether you realize it or not, and will not put up with it forever.


----------



## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> Before I finish reading, I just want to make sure I point this out.
> 
> 
> 
> As people keep telling people (and this is for everyone reading's benefit as much as yours), don't go straight into a relationship. Take a year, two years, 5 years if you need it, off from relationships, have fun, don't get attached..._cos you ain't over the ex_. It will blow up on you 9 times out of 10. You may get temporary relief but you are masking the problems and they're just sitting there under the surface waiting. And your new flame is getting the brunt of it whether you realize it or not, and will not put up with it forever.


H2H, Turnera is dead right on this one. Brother, understand that when I say this, it is coming from one...

You are a sensitive man. Your all blue on the outside, with a crazy soft underbelly. It will take you longer than most to process these feelings and come out the other side. 

Brother, you have to become comfortable with who you are *alone* before you can be okay for a mate, otherwise they will be dealing with you trying to make them produce your happiness.

And that is not fair to either you or them, because we are the only ones that can make ourselves truly happy.


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> You know I can tell you I honestly enjoyed laying down next to her and sleeping and feeling her next to me at night.. It was just a great feeling to have.. Sometimes I would wake up and just look at her sleep for a bit before falling back to sleep myself.. It was strange..


First, what is your therapist doing for your codependency?

Second, what is he/she doing to address your need for strength and optimism, to learn to make choices on logic instead of feelings? To me, this is where you need to be working. We all feel things, Hth. But most of us have this thing in us that drives us PAST those feelings and makes us get up and take care of things whether we're sad or upset or not. Ask your IC about that. Because I think you're 'allowing' yourself to wallow.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you've had job problems because of this, you have a child to raise despite this...you need to find your steel.


----------



## happyman64

> Relationships have become so cheap..


IMO they only cheapen if one or both spouses let them cheapen. 

Online gambling was your vice. It hurt the relationship.

Lying and cheating was her thing. It destroyed the marriage.



> I think once some people are divorced or going through a divorce, they no longer have the energy or will to fight for something..


Maybe you are fighting for the wrong thing. You cannot fight for a marriage if you are the only one that wants that marriage. 

You cannot fight for a relationship with your GF if she sees you are not willing to fight for her.

You first fight for yourself. To get strong on your own. To get strong in your head. To be strong with your heart. So no one can ever break it again.

Then you fight for your children. To ensure they have a parent or coparents that assure them they are loved and wanted whether you two are married or not.

Your wife got exactly what she wants. Her freedom. Yet you feel bad for her. You cried for her.

But she did not cry for you or your boys or the marriage you once had.

Accept that. Harden your heart and tell her to work harder or get a second job to make ends meet.

Nice guys finish last. That does not mean you are not nice, you are just not being tough with the right person. 

Try it.

She might learn to respect you one day.

HM


----------



## thenub

HIO...... You Rock!!!!!!!


----------



## Hardtohandle

Happy

Just so you know it was Online GAMING. .Not Gambling.. Not that it matters though.. 

The therapist kept telling me that this wasn't going to work without her being there and understanding her issues..

My friend oddly enough said it the best before I told him we broke up..

He said Women who used to be smoking hot and then lose some of their looks as they get older and no longer are the center of attention when they walk into the room now suddenly realize they need a personality and they actually need to talk and have a conversation.. 

The GF wanted someone like her Ex that would take her sh!t and not say a word.. I wasn't that guy.. Her Ex used the bottle to deal with her issues.. I can relate honestly..

Sadly she needs a few bad men in her life to see what she is missing.. 

She just lived too much in the past and just needed the attention of other men.. It just wore thin on me.. It brought the worst in me and I acted out in different ways against it.. 

Lessons learned..

Oddly enough a few days ago she called me asking if it was over.. I was annoyed..

I told her I asked you 4 times, 2 times in writing/text, once on the phone and once in person not to make a choice of breaking up out of anger and to make it from a more rational place.. 

I told her when I broke up with you once I did it out a place of sadness and pity for you.. Then I woke and realized I was foolish.. I came back looking for forgiveness. I wasn't ashamed of doing that.. 

I knew or felt she was calling me in hopes I would make amends with her.. But I just couldn't, I felt if I let me make me the bad guy here and ask to fix this, it will never be right. She made this choice and she would have to be a big girl and unmake this choice.. Her pride wouldn't let her do that though 

I told her you broke up with me.. What is it exactly you would want or expect from me.. 

She felt I was c0cky as if I had the upperhand and shouldn't be acting that way because of what I did or acted and that I was the one that fvcked up.

She said, she wanted to make sure I wasn't going to call her in the following days or week to get back with her or make an excuse to come get something from her house in an attempt to see her.. 

I told her I have nothing there and don't care about anything else there.. 

I knew when she said not to act c0cky that she was looking for me to fix it.. Otherwise she wouldn't care how I was acting.. She wanted to put me in the place of having screwed up in an attempt to fix this.. Which is classic of her.. She admits to nothing..

She stressed she would never chase anyone down. Shame her pride and ego gets in her way..

She was big on the line, guys can hit on me and I can handle it because I am a woman.. But you're a man and if a woman hits on you, you just have no control and will fvck her.. It was utterly retarded.. I honestly thought she would grow past that. That she would catch a clue.. 

She didn't like when I told her guys only know dolled up saturday night carol ( not her real name ).. That they don't know monday to friday carol like I did and its true..

I don't think she can get out of her own way with this stuff.. 

But I'm okay.. A little down but no tears or anything.. Just a bit of a knot in my stomach.. 

Therapist was good in sending me excerpts from a book he was reading with case studies and one of the cases was similar to mine with a couple with same issues.. The man expressed the same complaint about feeling he was competing for first place with his girl friend.. Basically I'm not alone in this and I'm not crazy feeling the feelings I did.. 

I will say this now.. She is the kind of woman who will lose the weight now and then come to my house in the summertime in some skimpy outfit to drop off something to put it in my face.. She isn't used to getting turned down.. 

She was surprised I didn't want to fool around when I was upset with her.. She never had someone do that before to her regardless of how upset they were.. Funny Sh!t... It was weird hearing her say that.. 

I have some codependancy issues but not like I did in the past.. Working on it.. 

But I always loved that feeling being with someone.. Thats the mushy part of me.. I've been a tough guy for 24 years so far on this job, it dictates that I must.. I don't need to be a tough guy all the time or at home.. Plus I need to show my boys its okay to show some emotions sometimes.. It doesn't make you weak.. Matter of fact it makes you stronger that you can and kick some a$$ moments later, if you have to (hehe)..

The therapist was on the money here, I just refused to accept it.. I fell into the she can change mentality.. It was the only thing that drove me nuts, but it was a big thing... She just had not value for men in her life.. We were a dime a dozen as she said once in the past.. I thought she said it out of anger but it was a reality.. I just didn't see it then..


----------



## happyman64

Gaming? Gaming??

Now I have to play Halo for at least an hour as penance for my mistake.

But on a serious note you really seemed dialed into yourself regarding the Ex and your ExGf.

There are better women out the HTH.

Never settle. I will say it again.

Never settle.

There are very good women out there. Some that will value you as a good man. One that will value you as "The Man".

That is the one you want.


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> I will say this now.. She is the kind of woman who will lose the weight now and then come to my house in the summertime in some skimpy outfit to drop off something to put it in my face.. She isn't used to getting turned down..


Start preparing your response now. 

I recommend:
"Wow, are you really THAT pathetic now?" shake head, laugh, turn around, walk inside, and shut the door, chuckling all the way.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Hardtohandle

*You need to become more self-sufficient and stop depending on women to be part of you getting your life better*. When YOU get your emotions and your life in better shape then you will be much better to make better choices and you will see significant improvements

Do you have a good therapist? Are you doing everything he/she recommends?* If you are doing what the therapist recommends then how much progress have you made in the lasts year?* That will tell you if you and your therapist are on the right tract. You seem to have more than average turmoil in your life


----------



## just got it 55

turnera said:


> Before I finish reading, I just want to make sure I point this out.
> 
> 
> 
> As people keep telling people (and this is for everyone reading's benefit as much as yours), don't go straight into a relationship. Take a year, two years, 5 years if you need it, off from relationships, have fun, don't get attached..._cos you ain't over the ex_. It will blow up on you 9 times out of 10. You may get temporary relief but you are masking the problems and they're just sitting there under the surface waiting. And your new flame is getting the brunt of it whether you realize it or not, and will not put up with it forever.


:iagree: with you T 

HTH I have always felt that you were not over XW.

Tell me I am wrong if not,tell yourself what you need to do starting with admiting to yourself you are not over her.

Your emotional display to me is evidence that you are still in her grips.

55


----------



## Hardtohandle

55, I will tell you its a mixed bag..

Part of me realizes NOW that for my Ex wife that was the best she could do at the time.. It completely sucked.. It was completely bad and it wasn't right... But for someone like her with her mindset it was the best she could do. 

It doesn't excuse her in the least.. And I would never take her back.. It really is me just closing the door on her as the zombies chase her down type of scenario.. I just don't ever see a moment that would allow me to take her back.. Its not just the last time, its all the other times as well.. 

That being said.. I think that day I just had my hands full with all my emotions.. I am in the waiting area in family court and trying to literally knock some sense into the Ex girlfriend. When being calm didn't work and her getting more nasty via text started.. I told her basically to go fvck herself and good luck with all the bullsh!t she does.. 

Deep down it was her insecurities with getting older, putting on some weight and just not being that women anymore that caused her to lash out the way she did with all this attention grabbing.. 

Her mentality was it was all or nothing.. Either I knew everything or she didn't tell me anything.. I told her there has to be some middle point in all of this.. 

I told her you don't need to tell me about every guy that hits on you.. What value does it bring to this relationship ? What benefit does it bring ? I told her nothing.. 

But she didn't care.. I felt as if she was trying to tell me your lucky I am with you as I could have my pick of the litter.. And honestly thats how it came out.. I finally told her go at it.. Good luck and lets see how long some other man is gonna take this sh!t from you.. 

As for my Ex wife.. Part of me felt bad because I know she doesn't have the money and part of me was going through some other issues moments ago.. 

Look I'm happy I am getting 1300 a month from her come March.. But I know its gonna be a struggle for her.. I know that this might be the straw that breaks the camels back with her and the boyfriend, when he realizes he is actually paying me child support..

If that happens and they break up, I will get nothing from her.. So in the end I would have rather gotten 600 a month steady instead of 1300 for 2 months and then nothing..

Personally I think today if I wanted my Ex back all I would need to do is be nice to her.. I think at this point she see's that this all isn't what she expected it to be.. 

I made very little overtime last year and made 120k.. She made 25k in income.. 

She lost her kids, her home, her future.. She is struggling, has to work more now for sure. More than she ever had for the past 20 years.. She has to work the rest of her life full time to pay me.. 

Work wise I'm on the 2nd stage of this interview for a new job. I hope I get the job.. But if not in the next few months things might change up big time in my job for me.. So I have something good to fall back on here hopefully as well. 

Honestly I don't know what is going on with me emotionally. I've just been a more open person since my divorce.. 

Look there are times I cry at climax ( when I am with someone ).. I have not fvcking clue what it is.. Its just a range of emotions that swell up in me.. No big cries, just some tears and light weeping. Again I have zero clue whats going on in me with this.. 

Trust me when I say this. I am not as bad as I was.. Heck I was almost suicidal 2 years ago.. Today its the last thing on my mind.. Women wise I have never gotten this much attention. I just don't act on it much.. That way I am shy, go figure.. I never act on it when I am with someone of course, so for the past year and a half I have been a upstanding boyfriend.. 

I'm working on me and I am very less codependent then I was.. Very much less. But I also know me.. I can really be a slug and a relationship keeps me busy.. I can truly sit at home all day..


----------



## happyman64

Keep focusing on you.

And let your ExWife fend for herself.

She needs to grow up. She needs to learn her lesson from all the pain and chaos she caused by her bad decisions.

This is life.

She chose the path she is currently on.

I think you are doing great. Glad you dumped your GF. 

You deserve better. Keep looking.

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> Keep focusing on you.
> 
> And let your ExWife fend for herself.
> 
> She needs to grow up. She needs to learn her lesson from all the pain and chaos she caused by her bad decisions.
> 
> This is life.
> 
> She chose the path she is currently on.
> 
> I think you are doing great. Glad you dumped your GF.
> 
> You deserve better. Keep looking.
> 
> HM


Thanks HM..

I will not deny there are times I get some panic and urges to try to reconcile with the GF.. But I just suck it up and move on with the day.. 

I know like you said about my EX, I know things will never work out unless someone knows the consequences of their actions.. Everyone needs to be responsible and adult enough to fix their own mistakes, if that is what they think they are ( meaning the mistakes )

I tell you that is the one thing I am willing to do.. I am not ashamed to admit my mistakes or faults.. I will take the hit if I fvcked up and apologize profusely until the cows come home if that is what it takes..

Sadly people have too much pride for such things.

One time I gave the GF a cookie and told her pretend this is your pride, eat it and just apologize to me.. She wouldn't.. I just had to let the issue go for the sake of it.

*EDIT: How life rolls*

As I was typing this a friend of mine texts me a persons name and has me look them up.. Its a female.. Very attractive.. He mentioned this person to me several weeks ago with a comment of, this is a girl you should go out with.. But I have a GF and she has a BF.. 

Well as you can see how this is going.. She no longer has a BF and is interested in meeting.. Pretty cool how life is sometimes..


----------



## happyman64

> Everyone needs to be responsible and adult enough to fix their own mistakes, if that is what they think they are..


IMO her anger/frustration towards you and in court is a sign of guilt.

She needs to grow up. She is a parent. She needs to act like one and if she no longer wants the daily responsibility of being a parent she has to pay the coparent for that freedom.

Personally, the way she has handled the kids is a huge disappointment. I'm sure you feel disappointed in her for many things.

The last two women in your life are not up to your standards. 

Look in the mirror.

You should want a woman with the same standards and settling for less is not an option.

Read "Flyfish Doc's" thread. He did not settle and neither should you.

I am cheering for you. 

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

happyman64 said:


> IMO her anger/frustration towards you and in court is a sign of guilt.
> 
> She needs to grow up. She is a parent. She needs to act like one and if she no longer wants the daily responsibility of being a parent she has to pay the coparent for that freedom.
> 
> Personally, the way she has handled the kids is a huge disappointment. I'm sure you feel disappointed in her for many things.
> 
> The last two women in your life are not up to your standards.
> 
> Look in the mirror.
> 
> You should want a woman with the same standards and settling for less is not an option.
> 
> Read "Flyfish Doc's" thread. He did not settle and neither should you.
> 
> I am cheering for you.
> 
> HM


Just so you know HM, I talked about this stuff in therapy yesterday and he also echoed what you said about the ex wife and her guilt.

Hindsight being 20/20, I realized that this relationship was REALLY going downhill on New Years Eve.. I was still hurt from things that transpired that night.. Mind you nothing related to cheating or flirting, it was stuff between us and what she said..

I am looking up flyfish posts, but is there one in particular ?


----------



## happyman64

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/59091-just-confonted-her-she-wants-me-move-out.html

It is long but worth reading.


----------



## Hardtohandle

01/26/15 Monday

I'm so fvcking pissed and hurt... 

The Ex GF calls me up after 2 weeks and we discuss about basically getting back together and we discuss counseling or therapy.. Mind she is calling me crying or was just crying..

We talk about a few things I laugh.. She goes I'm glad you think this is funny.. I tell her look I'm sorry, but I just love you and I am happy to hear your voice if its you being annoyed.. 

She asks me if I have been with anyone and I haven't.. I intended on meeting someone but it just hasn't happen.. At first I didn't understand what she was asking the way she asked it mind you.. 

But once I get it, I ask.. She pauses and say's what if I did. We were broken up.. I replied, As much as I want to get back the answer would be no, I'm sorry.. 

She replies no she hasn't.. But hesitantly tells me she has reconnected with all her guy friends and she is not going to give them up.. That I would have to accept it.. Sorry.. She needs them.. 

We spent a good 30 to 40 minutes on the phone prior to this.. 

I told her first I wouldn't accept it.. I wouldn't accept her going out with them and I won't treat them with any sort of respect if I meet them and would be down right hostile and it wouldn't fair well for any of them even trying to challenging me or confronting me..

She held her ground.. 

I said goodbye for a 2nd time in 2 weeks.. 
I was so pissed that the second I was gone she went running back to these Beta Orbiters and of course they were more then happy to entertain her.. 

I expressed this to her and I told her it seems you never got it before with your other past relationships and these guys.. But you don't seem to get it and think its everyone else.. 

I'm just so fvcking mad at myself for not listening to people before.. I feel as if she cheated.. 

I spent the last hour getting rid of every image I have of her from my life.. 

I just feel very betrayed.. She crying these bullsh!t tears and then tells me she is talking to people.. She even played it vague.. Its some people... What a piece of sh!t.. She should have called me and told me to go fvck myself instead of this bullsh!t.. 

I swear men like myself become d0cuhebags because of women like this.. 

I hope someone here learns from my mistakes so they don't have to deal with this nonsense.. 

God fvcking dam.. I'm choked up.. Chest is tight.. I'm crying... I'm really getting tired of this sh!t.. I swear the next woman who tries even the slightest game of ANY, ANY fvcking sort is gonna be left at the curb.. I don't give a fvck where I am.. I smell a game, BAM I'm gonna call them on it and walk the fvck out.. No wait I'm sorry, nothing.. Go fvck yourself.. 

I was gonna spend about 250k and MORE in renovations on my home to accommodate her and her kids along with mine.. 

Holy Sh!t I'm so burnt out with all this stuff..


----------



## turnera

It'll get better. You just need time on your own. And I know LOTS of great women. You'll get there.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I really don't have a clue, honestly... I thought I was smart, but I am dumb fvck it seems.. 

I can convince a guy to fly into NYC from Chicago to get arrested but I can't see the sh!t going on under my own nose.. 

I just don't fvcking get it.. I really am at a loss.. 

I've pointed companies in directions on how to improve their software, which they loved and was praised for.. But I just can't fuvking sort my life.. 

How the fvck do I tell my boys what to do is right, when I don't have a fvcking clue anymore..

I'm being completely and totally honest.. I need a woman just to hold me and tell me its gonna be alright.. I need someone in my corner.. 

its not a codependency thing.. Its a human thing.. I've seen enough fvcked up sh!t in my life.. I just can't keep getting beat up like this.. I really just can't.. I'm being honest.. 

I'm telling you I busted my a$$ my whole life.. I've been working nonstop since I was 12.. I mean it.... I've taken care of everyone.. EVERYONE... I'm not asking for much, a fvcking hug.. anything.. Just not this sh!t...


----------



## turnera

Then you should be seeing a professional therapist at LEAST once a month if not twice a month. You should also be asking your doctor for a temporary prescription for antidepressants, for about 6 months, to help you pull out of it. You can get one that has no side effects, other than to get you motivated.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Then you should be seeing a professional therapist at LEAST once a month if not twice a month. You should also be asking your doctor for a temporary prescription for antidepressants, for about 6 months, to help you pull out of it. You can get one that has no side effects, other than to get you motivated.


Sadly Turnera, I see one once a week.

Meds.. I would rather feel the pain and learn from it.. Even if I have to cry more than not.. I know dealing with my divorce helped me out a lot dealing with this.. 

She just caught me off guard.. She calls me crying and talking about getting back together and after all that talking tells me about the guy friends and then says sorry good bye.. If she was trying to hurt me, she succeeded.. I was caught off guard and weak.. Lesson learned..

As time goes by I regroup.. But as always its that pesky time of going by that is the hard part.. Its the travel between A and B that is the issue..


----------



## turnera

Ask your therapist for a swift kick. Maybe a new direction in the therapy.


----------



## karole

Perhaps you need to discuss with your counselor why you are always pulled toward these type women. Tunera is right, you need to be on your own and learn to be happy with yourself before getting into another relationship. You fall too hard too fast it seems. You have a great family, great kids, a job you love and friends - you can do without a woman in your life for a couple of years while you heal.


----------



## Openminded

I'll say this one final time: She is not who you need. 

You have had problems with her male friends (with reason) from the beginning and yet you keep going back for more of the same treatment. I hope when she calls again (because she very likely will) you remember the hurt you are feeling now and you will tell her not to call again. 

There are plenty of wonderful women out there. Fix yourself first and then find one.


----------



## Hardtohandle

02/16/15 Monday

I got papers from my Ex wife and she was appealing the child support numbers.. Of course she lied ON PAPER.. That she has always had our youngest sons 3 - 4 days out of the week. 

Which is an out an and out lie.. I asked my son just to hear it, and he said two as well.. 

I just don't get what she thinks will come of this ? 

I am going to crush her on this in court, if it even gets that far.. Personally I think her lawyer is going to be upset that he questioned a judges findings based on misinformation.


As turnera knows from another thread, I am going back out with the old GF and we have our first counseling session this friday.. 

She had admitted some things but I don't know if she is placating me or being honest. I expressed that to her and what I wanted out of counseling with her.. This is my last ditch effort with this and she knows this is the only way we can continue this relationship..

Let see how it goes.. 

I am hoping she realizes how skewed her perception on somethings are.. With that I am not looking for over night transformations, but as long as she realizes and I realize the issues we can work from there.. hopefully


----------



## turnera

Awareness is the first step.


----------



## bandit.45

H2H, I have gone through two failed relationships over the past two years. So I feel your pain. I am no longer dating and you know what? I have more mental clarity now without stupid females mucking my mind up than I have had in the last decade. I'm heading in a whole new direction in life and I feel good about myself. 

Dude you need to drop the women for a while. Just go celibate for five or six months. You don't need women. You just think you do. Looks to me like you just keep reopening that old wound. 

Its not going g to heal if you keep picking at it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> H2H, I have gone through two failed relationships over the past two years. So I feel your pain. I am no longer dating and you know what? I have more mental clarity now without stupid females mucking my mind up than I have had in the last decade. I'm heading in a whole new direction in life and I feel good about myself.
> 
> Dude you need to drop the women for a while. Just go celibate for five or six months. You don't need women. You just think you do. Looks to me like you just keep reopening that old wound.
> 
> Its not going g to heal if you keep picking at it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


QFT. Bandit nailed it.

H2H, this is exactly what you need, brother.


----------



## Openminded

It's what he definitely needs but he doesn't exactly listen to advice. This has been going on for quite awhile. 

At least he's predictable.


----------



## farsidejunky

Openminded said:


> It's what he definitely needs but he doesn't exactly listen to advice. This has been going on for quite awhile.
> 
> At least he's predictable.


I know. This is the 4th or 5th time I have suggested it to him. 

I must like repeating myself...


----------



## Hardtohandle

Openminded said:


> It's what he definitely needs but he doesn't exactly listen to advice. This has been going on for quite awhile.
> 
> At least he's predictable.


I laughed out loud on this one.. 

I will go into what is going with us and what she tells me.. 

For me even if this fails, I am happy I tried this.. 

Without a doubt I learned A LOT these last few years ( maybe not enough in some eyes here ).

I always hope someone will read this and help them validate their own issues some day...


----------



## Hardtohandle

I was trying to figure out a way to post this without making long and drawn out.. So here is my attempt at it..

We broke up for a total of 12 days.. 

During those 12 days this is what went on, of course I have to just believe what she tells me and I do unless I see something otherwise..

Personally I was going to meet one woman on Thursday, the day right before me and the GF decided to get back together. I also was going on a blind date of sorts that Saturday night as well. 

I cancelled both that Wednesday night.. 

As for the G.F... This a bit odd. Nutshell she thought I had her computer tapped and could see what she was doing online.. So as from her own words, she did things to upset me so I would reach out to her.. Of course I didn't have her computer tapped ( its a crime) and I told her no one was worth that kind of effort or interest.. 

Nonetheless, the G.F. reached as expected back out to these guy "friends".. She also reached out to a guy she previously dated and to a married guy she dated in the past to confirm it was actually him trying to friend her on linkedin while we were dating.. She had always thought it was me testing her.. 

Of course for me in an odd sense it was great because it validated everything I told her.. Basically *ALL OF THEM* ( shocker) told her they wanted a relationship and not just friends..

She now admits that this sort thing wasn't right and has apologized for the issues I went through.. 

Unfortunately for me part of me doesn't feel the she really means it.. She has flip/flopped on it and has stated she just didn't see anything wrong with it and it is something she has dealt with all her life.. Basically this is how men are.. 

Is she telling me the truth ? Is this how skewed her life has been men wise ? Or is she just trying to blow smoke up my A$$ because she knows or knew it was wrong all along and know it has come to hit her in the face and she catch dodge it anymore.. Otherwise she would have be or become one busy girl trying to entertain all these men and me as she leads ALL OF US ON.. 

So for me now I am stuck at this point..

Did she know it was wrong and did it anyways because she needed it and didn't care about my feelings or was she that blind to this stuff.. I don't know.. I'm a bit torn.. 

I spoke with her mother about it honestly and her mom states she has always been about this and her soon to be ex would just ignore it ( I think what she didn't realize is he ignored it by drinking a bottle of booze ).. I don't ignore sh!t.. 

The other issue is that once she admitted it, she wanted it to go away.. I told her simply its not that easy.. I dealt with this for a year and now after you say Okay, you were right don't bring it up again, I just don't bring it up again ? Sorry I need some time to vent and get upset that I was right and you ignored me and told me I was wrong and over exaggerating. 

Part of me needs to push her face into it.. 

Oddly enough, I never told her about meeting anyone until she kept pushing her old boyfriend down my throat about something. So I told her I am going to tell you something and I am tell you to purposely upset you.. And I told her about the woman I was going to met.. I knew it would upset her because she was younger and had no kids and was in better shape ( but I never told her that ).. I never showed her any pics or gave her name.. 

But it worked.. I told her why are you so upset when you and your BF were practically discussing finances together in a total of one day of speaking to each other.. Its not actually true but she mentioned something to me about them discussion incomes and I just embellished on it.. 

For me I have to say it was the best thing I could have done, was tell her.. Then she said something else and I told her about the blind date Saturday night.. Again it was nice to show her no grass was growing under my feet.. 

So now we are at this point of seeing a counselor on Friday the 20th.. 

Her contention is she will not bring up other men if I do not bring up stupid things I might say sometimes.. I told her instead of feeling the need to retaliate, why not just tell me what I am saying is wrong or hurtful to you and we will address it. But for you to use that as excuse to tell me 2 days later about soandso hitting on you is retarded.. It's what kids do.. 

Granted if I do it constantly I can understand the point of putting me in my place and teaching me a lesson. But not the first time around.. It gets us nowhere but fighting.. 

I immediately address it when she says something.. EG I told her flat out I do not want to hear about a man that is not me or her father.. 

She brings up a post one of these guy friends posted about axel rose being heavy.. The minute she brought it up, I told her what did I tell you.. I do want hear about it, I don't care... 

She apologized.. I know she didn't like it and tried at first to defend it, but I reminded her what I said and I told her I don't want to hear about it, unless you are looking to piss me off.. If so by all means do it and we can get into a nice big fight.. I'm already pissed, do you want to piss me off any more ? 

She said you're right, I'm sorry and started hugging and kissing me.

I will admit there are times I get into that zone and I need to be pulled out of it.. Several days ago I got upset and she grabbed my face, looked into my eyes, told me she loved me, kissed me and started hugging me.. I hugged her back and immediately felt myself calming down and coming off that ledge of anger.. 

My issue is I can get ramped up pretty fast.. So I can do 0 to 100 in the anger scale in 6 seconds..

Look on the good side of all of this there is one thing she told me that I thought was really nice and I felt it when she was telling me..

She basically said I would rather fight with you everyday then be without you again.. These 2 weeks were the hardest thing I have to deal with in my life.. She told me some other things as well about what she went through and how she was crying and such.. 

So lets see where this counseling takes us.. Hopefully we will both get some insight into how to deal with each other on these things.


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> As for the G.F... This a bit odd. Nutshell she thought I had her computer tapped and could see what she was doing online.. So as from her own words, she did things to upset me so I would reach out to her..


:rofl:
OMG, you _believed _that?!

I don't know what's worse - that you believed it or that she thought that excuse would hold water.


----------



## bfree

Why do you need so much drama in your life? Isn't the rest of your day interesting enough without all "this?"


----------



## happyman64

I almost wish you had waited a week and went on your two dates.

You might have gotten a glimpse of what "normal" looks like......

Good luck with the counselor.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bull shyte, H2H.

Answer me one freaking question. And make it short because I watch you talk yourself into things as you get more and more wordy....

What does your beat-cop gut and instinct tell you?


----------



## karole

Yes, my dear, she is blowing smoke up your ass and you are inhaling. I just do not understand you HTH. I think you love drama in your life and you can't be happy with yourself and think you have to have a woman to complete you. You need to cancel the therapy with your SO and double up on IC for yourself. As has be told to you many times in this thread, you need to fix your woman picker and find out how to be happy with yourself before you get into another relationship.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Well HTH, you do like a challenge. It's almost like, if something's not easy to obtain, it's not worth obtaining it to you.

She has been like this her entire adult life. Seeking validation from at every turn. You've basically told her when she does this, not to mention it to you. She may stop mentioning it around you for a while, but I think that anytime she's upset with you, she'll mention something one of these guys had said to her. Then when you show that it upset you, she'll go into the "I'm sorry mode".

It's already happened once. She can't, or won't stop herself from having it happen again.

I get it. You love her and she loves you. You're going to IC and that's great and needed. She's not going to IC and needed.

You don't need anyone else to make you happy and feel fulfilled. She(at the moment anyway) seems to need more than you to be happy and feel fulfilled. She's shown this time and time again.

She did it when you were together, she did it when you broke up. She did it when you got back together, she did it when you broke up again. It's been a constant throughout you relationship.

I still have my doubts about her thinking that what shes doing is even wrong. She just knows that it's wrong for you.

I hope you two can make it work this time, but if history is an indicator...

_"History never looks like history when you are living through it."
John W. Gardner
_

If she will not learn from her past actions, she's destined to repeat them.


----------



## Openminded

This is what your life with her will _always_ be like. If you want to be with her -- and obviously you do -- you need to accept who she is. She keeps bringing this stuff up because she's trying to wear you down and make you accept it. Sure, therapy could make a difference but it's a lot of hard work. And I seriously doubt she'll do the work. 

She thinks she's just fine the way she is. She feels it's you who needs to change. And she'll keeping working on you until you accept it or you finally leave forever. In the meantime, it will continue to be a rocky road. I think most of us who have followed your story from the beginning have said that. I've certainly never changed my mind. 

Be prepared.


----------



## Hardtohandle

farsidejunky said:


> Bull shyte, H2H.
> 
> Answer me one freaking question. And make it short because I watch you talk yourself into things as you get more and more wordy....
> 
> What does your beat-cop gut and instinct tell you?


I believe her.. 

If you look at a post a while back. Months ago.. She asked me to put together a lamp she took apart because she thought I put a camera in it.. A female friend of hers shook her up about something.. Basically I said something to her that transpired in her home without me being there, I was goofing around when I said it to her but it did occur. She told me when I asked her what happen to the lamp.. I laughed about it.. 

Some people just have the CSI effect.. They think we can do all those crazy things.. I see it when a grand jury asks questions all the time.. 

Computer wise she isn't smart. For example she doesn't get the whole friends only on facebook thing.. For some reason she thinks you can still see what is going on..


----------



## GusPolinski

Hardtohandle said:


> I was trying to figure out a way to post this without making long and drawn out.. So here is my attempt at it..
> 
> We broke up for a total of 12 days..
> 
> During those 12 days this is what went on, of course I have to just believe what she tells me and I do unless I see something otherwise..
> 
> Personally I was going to meet one woman on Thursday, the day right before me and the GF decided to get back together. I also was going on a blind date of sorts that Saturday night as well.
> 
> I cancelled both that Wednesday night..
> 
> As for the G.F... This a bit odd. Nutshell she thought I had her computer tapped and could see what she was doing online.. So as from her own words, she did things to upset me so I would reach out to her.. Of course I didn't have her computer tapped ( its a crime) and I told her no one was worth that kind of effort or interest..
> 
> Nonetheless, the G.F. reached as expected back out to these guy "friends".. She also reached out to a guy she previously dated and to a married guy she dated in the past to confirm it was actually him trying to friend her on linkedin while we were dating.. She had always thought it was me testing her..
> 
> Of course for me in an odd sense it was great because it validated everything I told her.. Basically *ALL OF THEM* ( shocker) told her they wanted a relationship and not just friends..
> 
> She now admits that this sort thing wasn't right and has apologized for the issues I went through..
> 
> Unfortunately for me part of me doesn't feel the she really means it.. She has flip/flopped on it and has stated she just didn't see anything wrong with it and it is something she has dealt with all her life.. Basically this is how men are..
> 
> Is she telling me the truth ? Is this how skewed her life has been men wise ? Or is she just trying to blow smoke up my A$$ because she knows or knew it was wrong all along and know it has come to hit her in the face and she catch dodge it anymore.. Otherwise she would have be or become one busy girl trying to entertain all these men and me as she leads ALL OF US ON..
> 
> So for me now I am stuck at this point..
> 
> Did she know it was wrong and did it anyways because she needed it and didn't care about my feelings or was she that blind to this stuff.. I don't know.. I'm a bit torn..
> 
> I spoke with her mother about it honestly and her mom states she has always been about this and her soon to be ex would just ignore it ( I think what she didn't realize is he ignored it by drinking a bottle of booze ).. I don't ignore sh!t..
> 
> The other issue is that once she admitted it, she wanted it to go away.. I told her simply its not that easy.. I dealt with this for a year and now after you say Okay, you were right don't bring it up again, I just don't bring it up again ? Sorry I need some time to vent and get upset that I was right and you ignored me and told me I was wrong and over exaggerating.
> 
> Part of me needs to push her face into it..
> 
> Oddly enough, I never told her about meeting anyone until she kept pushing her old boyfriend down my throat about something. So I told her I am going to tell you something and I am tell you to purposely upset you.. And I told her about the woman I was going to met.. I knew it would upset her because she was younger and had no kids and was in better shape ( but I never told her that ).. I never showed her any pics or gave her name..
> 
> But it worked.. I told her why are you so upset when you and your BF were practically discussing finances together in a total of one day of speaking to each other.. Its not actually true but she mentioned something to me about them discussion incomes and I just embellished on it..
> 
> For me I have to say it was the best thing I could have done, was tell her.. Then she said something else and I told her about the blind date Saturday night.. Again it was nice to show her no grass was growing under my feet..
> 
> So now we are at this point of seeing a counselor on Friday the 20th..
> 
> Her contention is she will not bring up other men if I do not bring up stupid things I might say sometimes.. I told her instead of feeling the need to retaliate, why not just tell me what I am saying is wrong or hurtful to you and we will address it. But for you to use that as excuse to tell me 2 days later about soandso hitting on you is retarded.. It's what kids do..
> 
> Granted if I do it constantly I can understand the point of putting me in my place and teaching me a lesson. But not the first time around.. It gets us nowhere but fighting..
> 
> I immediately address it when she says something.. EG I told her flat out I do not want to hear about a man that is not me or her father..
> 
> She brings up a post one of these guy friends posted about axel rose being heavy.. The minute she brought it up, I told her what did I tell you.. I do want hear about it, I don't care...
> 
> She apologized.. I know she didn't like it and tried at first to defend it, but I reminded her what I said and I told her I don't want to hear about it, unless you are looking to piss me off.. If so by all means do it and we can get into a nice big fight.. I'm already pissed, do you want to piss me off any more ?
> 
> She said you're right, I'm sorry and started hugging and kissing me.
> 
> I will admit there are times I get into that zone and I need to be pulled out of it.. Several days ago I got upset and she grabbed my face, looked into my eyes, told me she loved me, kissed me and started hugging me.. I hugged her back and immediately felt myself calming down and coming off that ledge of anger..
> 
> My issue is I can get ramped up pretty fast.. So I can do 0 to 100 in the anger scale in 6 seconds..
> 
> Look on the good side of all of this there is one thing she told me that I thought was really nice and I felt it when she was telling me..
> 
> She basically said I would rather fight with you everyday then be without you again.. These 2 weeks were the hardest thing I have to deal with in my life.. She told me some other things as well about what she went through and how she was crying and such..
> 
> So lets see where this counseling takes us.. Hopefully we will both get some insight into how to deal with each other on these things.


^This^ reply deserves a far better class of facepalm meme than I'm currently able to locate.


----------



## Hardtohandle

2/23/15 Monday

Counseling went okay.. It was eye opener for her, I think it was very helpful to push a few things out in the open.. 

Again trying to make it simple here.. I know I go on and on..

She basically admitted she was wrong and realizes how it hurt me. 

She swears as childish as it was ( and she admits it ) she was just trying to have me reach out to her.. She see's how dumb it was.. But her pride or whatever you want to call it prevented her from calling me and just being straight with me. 

Again I did post that she tried to reach out to me regarding something and she told me that was her way of trying to open the door to speak with her.. I realized it but didn't because I felt she should do the fixing.. 

Her side was basically. This is how men have been all my life.. I can handle this and I can't believe you would think I would cheat on you.. But you on the other hand are a guy and would fvck anything that moves..

My simple side which she failed to see is or was. It has nothing to do with trusting her. It was simply how this made me feel. Of course I fought her on the fvck anything that moves theory.

I kept pushing the turn the tables around and how would you feel. Eventually it made some leeway with her. Again as I always said someone else had to express it as well for her to understand it.. Basically she needed some outside validation to see it wasn't just me..

The weekend went well for a change.. So lets see how it goes.. We are not going to talk about the stuff and move forward.. 
Let see what happens..


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Hardtohandle said:


> 2/23/15 Monday
> 
> Counseling went okay.. It was eye opener for her, I think it was very helpful to push a few things out in the open..
> 
> Again trying to make it simple here.. I know I go on and on..
> 
> She basically admitted she was wrong and realizes how it hurt me.
> 
> She swears as childish as it was ( and she admits it ) she was just trying to have me reach out to her.. She see's how dumb it was.. But her pride or whatever you want to call it prevented her from calling me and just being straight with me.
> 
> Again I did post that she tried to reach out to me regarding something and she told me that was her way of trying to open the door to speak with her.. I realized it but didn't because I felt she should do the fixing..
> 
> Her side was basically. This is how men have been all my life.. I can handle this and I can't believe you would think I would cheat on you.. But you on the other hand are a guy and would fvck anything that moves..
> 
> My simple side which she failed to see is or was. It has nothing to do with trusting her. It was simply how this made me feel. Of course I fought her on the fvck anything that moves theory.
> 
> I kept pushing the turn the tables around and how would you feel. Eventually it made some leeway with her. Again as I always said someone else had to express it as well for her to understand it.. Basically she needed some outside validation to see it wasn't just me..
> 
> The weekend went well for a change.. So lets see how it goes.. We are not going to talk about the stuff and move forward..
> Let see what happens..


So far, every time I thought I'd seen you two turn the corner, it headed right smack dab into another well.

I'll reserve my high fives for some time down the road on this latest reunion.

I will say though, with all the problems, all the drama, you two do seem to genuinely want to be together. All we can do is just hope that you both can change and grow enough for the other to stay happy in the relationship.

I've been called cynical many times. I always reply that I'm a realist. It's not that I don't want to believe that all will be well in any given situation, I just don't get blinded into not realizing the reality of a certain outcome happening, or not.

Regardless of the realities, I still realize that there is always hope. Hey, I'm a life long(well, 42 of 51 years) New England Patriot fan, and believe it or not, when my Brother was ready to throw in the towel on the last Super Bowl, I said, and I quote, "It ain't over til' it's over". And look what happened.  <==There ain't a smiley face big enough for this.

There is hope for you two and I hope that you can pull off your own last second interception.


----------



## Hardtohandle

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> So far, every time I thought I'd seen you two turn the corner, it headed right smack dab into another wall.


GP this says it all.. 

That is how we both felt at one time or another regarding this relationship...

I think other men just seen this other guy thing as a woman who really wasn't ready for a relationship and thus acted accordingly.. 

I know some men complained about it, but when they seen the resistance from her they just took it as a light relationship and moved on when they couldn't handle it anymore.. Or she seen the issues coming up and cut them loose. 

Her M.O. was just to basically, slowly lose contact with someone until they caught the hint and they just did the breaking up or moved on. 

I guess I was fortunate in the sense that for whatever reason she had very strong feelings for me that I could push back enough that she just didn't try to cut me loose that way.

I think also men who might have dated more or were stronger emotionally in the sense they could suppress their emotions were able to put their emotions in check and just move on. 

I am not that guy and never will be.. I have tried to be that guy, I just cannot do it that way.. 

And I am smart enough to understand that part of me doesn't want to fail emotionally because of what I have been through. But it doesn't control me either..

Look if this fails, its a good story and a good lesson learned for anybody.. 

But if it succeeds its a good story to teach someone else on how to deal with these issues.. 

I can tell you that most of what I read about guy friends and beta orbiters tells you to ignore them because it shows your insecurity and weakness. What I can say is I tried to ignore and it just got worse as if it was okay to have this behavior. 

I think I was fortunate in the sense that I could address this situation and show this person that I could move on. I really do think that having other prospects or at least to show the ability to have other prospects puts someone in a reality check. In many ways it is like a B.S. fighting for his W.S. against the O.P.. 

I know for a fact it bothers the G.F. that the other woman was younger and with no kids.. I am sure if she seen her pics it would upset her because of how this woman looked physically. 

The simple reality is a person with no kids has A LOT MORE TIME to give their S.O. attention. There is no I can't come by I need to give my kids a bath.. Or I worked all day and need to take care of the kids now.. I'm too tired to see you..


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

HTH, I remember your thread but haven't done much to refresh my memories. But if I may, your wife was a loon and this current GF that you may or may not be reconnecting with sounds like a loon as well. 

OK, I say this with the utmost respect, but do you think you have a problem with picking the wrong girl? I have a BIL that seems to have that same problem (his life is a mess btw). IMHO, you need to do a lot of soul searching before you commit to another relationship. Date around. Have fun. But dammit, take your time and figure out what good traits are needed to make a good woman!


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/01/15 Sunday

Last Thursday and Friday I went running around to file an objection to my Ex wife request to a reduction in child support.. I'm tempted to post this up so you can all see it. 

The whole crux of it is basically stating repeatedly that my youngest has always stayed with my Ex 3 to 4 days out of the week since she left.. Which is a completely and utter *LIE*. 

I was a bit annoyed that after taking the day off to speak with him, you think he would have told me I had to file an objection to this.. But he didn't charge me anything and gave me some advice about bringing my kids into court to dispute this.

I text my Ex wife and told her I was pissed that she lied.. I didn't mind she filed to lower, but to tell the truth and not lie.. 

I realized that by continually stating 3 to 4 days on just about EVERY PAGE on this garbage, it puts it in the judges head ( if I didn't file an objection ) that regardless if the math the judge used was faulty.. It didn't matter because 50% custody in NYS means that the highest income pays.. So even if the judge say's, you are completely wrong with the issue of my numbers to determine child support. The fact that you have custody 50% of the time makes this all a moot point..

What was aggravating that I only had this 6 inch by 8 inch spot to write down why objected and it had to be HAND WRITTEN...

It took me 2 hours of rewriting my Novel to squeeze it into this small space.. 

This is what I posted Names omitted here.

HTH youngest son has only ever been with the Respondent on Monday and Tuesday each week ( 2 days ). . The Respondent provided a hand written letter dated 12/19/2013 and notarized on 12/20/2013 stating that HTH youngest son primary residence was always HTH residence and conceded to her days of visitation with HTH youngest son, along with termination of support. The Respondent verbally conceded to these facts in court on August 2013. Thus giving up Physical custody of HTH youngest son. 
The Petitioner questions the untimely manner in which the Respondent SELF Terminated her employment with the Board of Ed which seems to coincide with the Petition of Support being served upon her.

I request the support magistrate consider that the respondent has ZERO contact and support with HTH oldest son for approx. 2 years at this time thus requiring greater upkeep on my behalf. I further sight 2002 court of appeals case Gravlin vs Ruppert and July 11, 2012 McCormick vs McCormick in the Appellate Division Second Department which favor an upward modification in support due to decreased or no visitation.

My lawyer liked the last part because now her lawyer will have to rebuttal my statement and it shows I've done some homework. This of course will cost my Ex more money.. 

My Ex wife then decided not to tell me when my youngest was coming home from her house.. My youngest was sick on his visitation days with her and she kept him another day because he felt like sh!t.. Sadly that was a mistake on my part letting her keep him another day, because it bit me on my A$$.

I text at first then called her on Wednesday in the morning to ask her when she was bringing my youngest home.. She stated she would call me when she was in her car.. I expressed that was not a good thing and if she could give me a time.. It was 9 AM and I didn't care when he came home, but I just wanted to know if it was 12 or 1 or 2, so I can tell my mom and brother. Otherwise I would leave work to be home or come and get him if necessary. 

Again she reiterated once I get in my car I will call you.. Again I told her that was no good and that my family had lives as well and I just don't want to tie them down to staying home waiting for my son.. She hung up on me..

So I called my son and sent him a message to call me. 

I then text my Ex wife and told her if I don't get a call from my son in a reasonable amount of time, I will be coming over to her place with a police escort.. 

My son called me 10 minutes later to tell me he would be home for 1230.. 

But it took all that bullsh!t just to get that answer. 

This sh!t is utterly annoying.. 

Personally she should just stfu, pay the child support and crawl back to that fvcking hole she came from..

But I would honestly tell you, if she just came to me and just said hey I can't pay all of this and I can give you this until I get a full time job and I will work on finding a full time job ASAP.. I would have went along with it just NOT to be the d!ck in all of this.. Not the guy to kick her when she is down, even though she did me utterly wrong.. But I just never, ever want anyone, including her to say I was a bad guy in all of this.

But she brings this upon herself in the end.. And I again will tell her in court, that it didn't have to be this way if she just came correct to me.. 

Trust me I get the whole fvck you I would rather eat sh!t and die defiance from her.. My counter is, eat sh!t and die for all I care..


----------



## bandit.45

You like complicated relationships. You like drama. 

It is hard to coach someone like you H2H, because you always want to run into the burning building instead of away from it. 

A NORMAL, healthy, happy relationship should never require this amount of work and anxiety. Never. What your behavior tells me is that you are uncomfortable with normal.


----------



## Hardtohandle

bandit.45 said:


> You like complicated relationships. You like drama.
> 
> It is hard to coach someone like you H2H, because you always want to run into the burning building instead of away from it.
> 
> A NORMAL, healthy, happy relationship should never require this amount of work and anxiety. Never. What your behavior tells me is that you are uncomfortable with normal.


Bandit 

Just so you know that post above yours is about my Ex wife not the G.F.

The G.F. stuff is slowly sorting itself out.. I couldn't post anything without making it sound crazy.. I just don't have the proper writing skills atm to express it without making it sound crazy or without over explaining what I mean.. It would be long and drawn out.

No more guy friends and no more me talking about them is where we are at.. Let see.


----------



## bandit.45

Hardtohandle said:


> Bandit
> 
> Just so you know that post above yours is about my Ex wife not the G.F.
> 
> The G.F. stuff is slowly sorting itself out.. I couldn't post anything without making it sound crazy.. I just don't have the proper writing skills atm to express it without making it sound crazy or without over explaining what I mean.. It would be long and drawn out.
> 
> No more guy friends and no more me talking about them is where we are at.. Let see.


No...actually I'm referring to both. 

You jumped out of the frying pan into the fire friend. You traded one dysfunctional chick for another one. If I had to go to spend all my time arguing and negotiating just to have a normal relationship with a girlfriend...a GiRLFRIEND?...I would drop her like a hot rock. Wayward wives aren't worth it...dumbass girlfriends are even less worth it.


----------



## BobSimmons

bandit.45 said:


> No...actually I'm referring to both.
> 
> You jumped out of the frying pan into the fire friend.* You traded one dysfunctional chick for another one*. If I had to go to spend all my time arguing and negotiating just to have a normal relationship with a girlfriend...a GiRLFRIEND?...I would drop her like a hot rock. Wayward wives aren't worth it...dumbass girlfriends are even less worth it.


This. It's easier to have dysfunction because he's drawn to these types of women. Women he thinks he can save. You'd think he'd walk away from the GF after what he went through with his exW but no, he's staying in there trying to fix this.

Another poster said he likes the drama. I agree.


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/11/15 Wed..

Things have been okay.. But I had what I can only explain as anxiety attacks.. I felt overheated and only when I went outside in the cold air did I feel better and relaxed.. Twice in the same day on Saturday.. 

Also I've been getting very emotional to the point of tears over fear of losing the G.F.. Again no clue, I talk to her and she calms me down.. The best I can explain is I am afraid of getting hurt again.. Its like the more attached I get the greater the fear becomes.. She expresses nothing but love and similar fears about losing me, but she is more planted in reality about this than I am. 

I've said this in the past and I will say it yet again.. It is very hard to measure the trauma this type of thing does to you.. I can only hope that one day my Ex wife suffers these types of issues somehow or someway..


----------



## Clay2013

Hardtohandle said:


> 03/11/15 Wed..
> 
> Things have been okay.. But I had what I can only explain as anxiety attacks.. I felt overheated and only when I went outside in the cold air did I feel better and relaxed.. Twice in the same day on Saturday..
> 
> Also I've been getting very emotional to the point of tears over fear of losing the G.F.. Again no clue, I talk to her and she calms me down.. The best I can explain is I am afraid of getting hurt again.. Its like the more attached I get the greater the fear becomes.. She expresses nothing but love and similar fears about losing me, but she is more planted in reality about this than I am.
> 
> I've said this in the past and I will say it yet again.. It is very hard to measure the trauma this type of thing does to you.. I can only hope that one day my Ex wife suffers these types of issues somehow or someway..


I went through alot of the same things. My brother was the one person that would slap me around about this. You have to start feeling good about you again. There is no doubt you suffered greatly over your xW but its no longer about her. Its about you. Once you start to feel more confident you will notice the fear will go away. How my brother helped me is look if it is going to happen then so be it. There is nothing you can do about it and worrying about it only makes your chances of that happening greater. I found as time went on he was right. If they leave then so what. That is there loss. I know I can survive. The more you come to terms with it the better you will feel about yourself. 

My kids also were my greatest motivation. They are crazy and they keep me busy non stop. find something in your life to really fight for and it will help you through it. 

Clay


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/26/15 Thursday

I talked about dreams with my Therapist yesterday.. I don't have many. But when I do, I dream about basically losing a physical fight or being chased down by some sort of monster and my gun never works.. 

The Therapist basically tells me it simply translate to not being happy and that once I am happy I will have fights where I win.. 

So in my head I am looking to have a winning fight now..

I do have a physical lump in my throat, probably a swollen Lymph Node, but due to 9/11 I am not taking any chances. I already literally know a handful of people that died from 9/11 cancer related issues as first responders.. Took a blood test and just waiting to see if goes away or gets larger during the week(s) to come. If nothing changes then I will go for a CAT Scan. 

I'm a bit worried as I panic not knowing what would happen to my kids if something happen to me.. My mom is too old.. My brother is sort of useless and was just a very poor parent and father.. My ex wife hasn't spoke to my oldest in 2 years.. I don't even have a clue how that would work out for him. I know he doesn't want to be with his mom and this other man. It would just put him in a very bad spot.. I just don't want him to fvck up in school, he is doing so good. 

Girlfriend wise, its odd. Things are actually better. 

Other guy stuff is really down to bare minimum. 

Without going into much crazy detail. She did something which upset me.. Nothing related to other guys or anything. But I got upset at how she reacted and what she did. I basically was silent for a bit then let her have it verbally. I then prepared to leave her apartment.. 

What came next was a shocker.. 

*"I'm sorry I over reacted"* were the words that came out of her mouth. You're right I shouldn't have acted that way.

I should have given her some positive response at that time but I didn't.. I did the next day which was yesterday..

I spent the night and woke up a bit upset still over what happen the night before.. She realized it and I told her I would be okay, but it just brought back some old emotions from moments in and around my reconcile days with my ex wife.. It was just me, but I would be okay..

She then sent me some text messages, again apologizing and saying some nice words.. I couldn't respond back because I was driving and there was lots of traffic. She called me because she was worried I was that upset. She then apologized verbally again to me.. 

To me that was a big moment.. She expressed a lot of love for me and opened up how attached she was to me. I've heard some of this stuff before, but some how this time it felt different.. 

I think the apology without any excuse at the end was big.. No I'm sorry* BUT* if you didn't do this line.. 

The funny thing is she expressed how she feels she fixed me up and dealt with so much of my bullsh!t that if I break up with her now, she will be pissed because she basically feels she fixed me up and dealt with my Sh!t just so someone else would benefit from it.. 

I told her I pretty much felt the same about her.. So we both laughed and agreed we are stuck with each other..

Last monday I took her to family court ( she asked me to go with her ) to file for custody and support. Filing for divorce is at supreme court.. 

It took us all day and we couldn't leave or bring food into the building.. So we started at 9AM and didn't finish until 4PM.. 

But she now see's it took us 1 day to do something her STBXH promised he was going to do for the last 8 months.. 

He complained when she told him we were going over to his work place ( a bar near the courts ) to give him the papers.. He didn't want us coming in. I have no clue what he thought we were gonna do.. 

The G.F. makes an excellent point.. When he was out for months due to being in the hospital due to alcohol poisoning and almost killing himself it was okay that his job knew.. But getting some court papers is a big deal.. Its just funny how some people think..

The next step of course is divorce.. 

My new job is still on hold. Which is annoying as I want to move on with my life.. The money will be extremely helpful in getting things done..


----------



## Hardtohandle

04/01/15 Wed

I have therapy today, but I am rolling into some crazy insecurity issues.. I don't know if its from a trigger because this month is the month my Ex left.. I just don't know.. 

Yesterday I went through an issue of fearing something happen to my youngest son, so I called him to make sure he was okay.. Again its like impending doom or something.. 

Also I am fearing something is up with the G.F... Yet again she has done nothing to indicate anything.. But its just something in the pit of my stomach.. 

I do realize its crazy stuff and I am just trying to get a handle on it or just trying to be cool until it blows over.. 

The job I was looking for fell through as well. There is another opening but I need for it to be posted and come out.. That might take a few months.. 

Maybe because things are sort of falling apart or not going as planned I am becoming a bit unraveled..

All I know is, I just don't like these feelings.. 

I'm still waiting on the judges decision regarding the Ex wife appeal about her child support payments and my objection about her reduction..


----------



## turnera

Remind me, what do you do for a living?

And the anxiety you're feeling...exactly what you take to the therapist to help you with. You'll be fine.


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## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Remind me, what do you do for a living?
> 
> And the anxiety you're feeling...exactly what you take to the therapist to help you with. You'll be fine.


OMW there now, but feeling much better.. 

I think I just need to find a new job.. Work has been really bad since my divorce.. The boss just took it personal, my work performance sufferred from my depression and he just didn't get it.. Sadly my job is always about family first. Being a cop they know something bad could happen at work, so we are big on family as it might be the last time you see them before coming in.. Sadly its a reality that I have seen many times on this job..

I'm starting to look for a new job and I just need to sort things out with the G.F. 

We spoke a bit on the phone and said all the right things.. She put me at ease.. Which is what I needed.


----------



## Lotsa

StillLife said:


> HardtoHandle, I'm going through and have gone so much of the same stuff. Five months ago I found out my wife was having an ongoing, heated online affair. Found out, started to leave, and she begged me to reconcile, and after much dragging of feet to get the affair to end on both the part of his wife and by myself.
> 
> We had a really crappy year, including her going through thyroid cancer treatment. The day after I drove her home and had to be out of the house while she was radiated, I now know she almost immediately started a heated online affair with another guy. Not only had she done that, but going back to just a couple months after I thought she was done with the first affair, she resumed some of the same behaviors that had led to it in the first place, including hanging out online in this game with another man I know she was having at least a light inappropriate relationship with.
> 
> I fell into the trap like you did. I asked her how she could be doing this, I begged her to wake up, I tried my hardest to hang on for the good of our children and what I thought was a lifelong commitment. She had me believing she wanted to reconcile, was asking me to come back home, was telling me she had stopped talking to the guy, etc. But I found out not only was she not done talking to him, but she had upped the ante into putting on full on cam shows for him.
> 
> Through it all, the first affair and the second, she was blaming me for the faults in the marriage. Like a sucker, I had bought into them and was working my ass off to improve things including getting us into counselling and really working on myself, all the while it was just a fake R on her side and she was doing nothing on her end to fix things.
> 
> I made the same mistake of telling myself that she was still a good woman, was just confused, and it was my job to try to get her to wake up. Like other posters have pointed out to you, I was fooling myself. I was clinging to something I had created in my mind. The reality is a good woman would not be doing these things to her marriage and her family. Even if I was the worst husband in the world, which I'm not - there's just no justification other than the fact she is selfish and has far less of a conscious than I, or I'd like to think most people, possess. The truth is I may have had made my own mistakes, including playing an online game way too much in the first year of our marriage, but I turned those flaws around on my own to make her happy. I am a great husband and was a fool to allow her to make me believe otherwise, to blameshift and maker her choices my fault, which is still her default any time our relationship comes up.
> 
> Like you, one of the things that gets me is how she has just completely shut off any emotional connection now. I exposed the hell out of her affair to many people, including her mother, which infuriated her. I also told the OM (some young carefree ********* in Ireland ) that she had been reconciling, even making love while she was having her relationship with him. I think all of that pushed her even further away, but I'm glad I did it. People don't get to just walk all over others like this and get off scott free.
> 
> It's funny, because she can turn on the friendly charm when she needs me to do something and there have been a few times I let my low self esteem allow me to help her like fixing the toilet, going to feed her cat while she's out of town with the kids. But I realized last night, no more. She wanted to throw our marriage away for online friends and an online relationship? Get them to do the heavy lifting. See how wonderful of friends they are then, because words are easy, it's the actions other people are willing to do on our behalf that make them true friends. I'm sure my refusal to help her with anything that doesn't have to do with the kids will piss her off, but too bad. She chose to end this marriage as brutally and horrible as possible, and her days of playing me for a sucker and using me for anything are over.
> 
> One thing I'm questioning myself on now though, is what another poster in this thread pointed out: she claims she wants an amicable divorce and feels like we can be mature enough to work it out on our own. I wanted the same to save on legal fees and the like, but now I have to really examine if she is just playing me for a fool again.
> 
> Anyway, hang in there. You're further along in the divorce process than I am. Don't waver, you deserve better than this woman. Hell, I'd say most people deserve better than to be with someone who could take something like marriage so lightly and toss it aside so easily. Even considering the children like I have to, we deserve better than this. Your job is to love your children and do the best you can for them, not suffer through an *unnecessary* hell for them.


Oh Wow!, The actions of your wife are EXACTLY the same as my husband. I am going through the exact same deal. Thank you, I really learn't a lot from this post. Stay strong!


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## Hardtohandle

05/13/15 Wednesday

Things seem to be getting better. 

I had or have many insecurities of my GF leaving.. They manifested in many different ways.. 

I think I am settling in with the fact that we are a couple and that she is here to stay.. I've been more relaxed and even she has been noticing it.. She thought something was up.. Go figure..

I know I am not out of the woods yet and I know I go into what I can only call relapses with bouts of insecurity sometimes.. But I think I am learning to cope with them much better. 

I don't fight much with the GF as I did before and I am much more willing to make peace with her instead of carrying on the fight.. 

Some arguments could last a day or two.. Now we are defusing the situation within minutes sometimes.. Which is a big change..

Going to family court tomorrow as my Ex was looking to reduce or remove the child support. From reading the response back from the court. It seems they pretty much shot down everything she said. 

Work wise I am either looking for a new job or a new unit within my job.. As much as I want to do computer forensics, I will take anything at this point that works for me and can pay me 80k a year.. So I am looking to see what I can do.. 

Its amazing how much has changed since my first post on January 10, 2013...


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## Hardtohandle

05/14/15 Thursday

I cannot express how frustrated I am at this moment with family court.. 

The same magistrate that increased my Ex wife child support from 215 to 1350 a month, just reduced it back down to 215 a month. 

The simple reason, she is retiring and is looking to tie up lose ends.. Did she say that ? No, but being a city employee myself with a case load I completely understand what she is doing.. 

Of course yet again they thought since I am the man that I was looking for the reduction in child support.. 

Utterly frustrating.. 

So now I have to repetition to get this in front of another judge.. 

I know many guys are saying I should just be happy I am not paying and I truly get it.. But this is really fvcking annoying.. 

But next week I will go and get this started up again..

I just don't get how someone can just say I don't have any work without showing a OUNCE OF PROOF that they are actually looking for work..

To top it off I think she is getting a pay raise off the books from her boss. The reason I say that is she requested a pay raise just about every other year.. She is still getting the same money (40 per hour ) since 2012.. It just doesn't add up..

Now I'm on a mission to look at all my income tax returns to see her hourly rates for the last 15 years and I am going to print out every place looking to hire in New York, Brooklyn and Staten Island so I can bring it into court..

I just want to know when does the court finally call Bullsh!t on someone using the same line.. At what point do they just drop the hammer down.. 

I can completely get it if she was working fast food 40+ hours a week and making 10 dollars an hour and I was just looking to take blood from a stone.. But she is a dental hygienist of 18 years making 40+ an hour.. That is not chump change or a bad salary.. She is only working 3 days a week.. 3 hours a day.. On average 10 hours a week it seems. 

WTF gives with this sh!t... 

Let see how this all goes...


----------



## Pluto2

Yikes, did the magistrate recite the factual error that you were seeking a reduction? I mean, that's a factual error that could be corrected pretty easily in a motion to that magistrate. You could probably raise the lack of evidence in the same motion, but its not as easy to correct and will likely be addressed in an appeal. (Great-more money for you).


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## turnera

Are you using a lawyer for this stuff?


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## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Are you using a lawyer for this stuff?


I confer with one.. His outlook on this was to re-apply.. He felt the same thing when I told him the Magistrate was retiring the next day.. I started off the conversation with that statement and he had the same thoughts before I even went into the story.. 

His comment was, this is why I don't like going to family court sometimes, because I would have had the same outcome and then you would have be paying me as well on top of this.. It just adds insult to injury sometimes..

He honestly feels I don't need him to be there and that I have enough smarts to do it on my own.. 

I have an idea that might work.. 

The basic premise is I am going to express that if she cannot afford to pay me child support or cannot find a job with a college degree and license in dental hygiene and a license in cosmetology ( she used to be a hair dresser for many years prior )... How is a high school educated man going to find a job.. 

The argument will revolve around my mortgage, that I need repairs and updates to the home because my 2 boys can't sleep in bunkbeds forever.. They need their own rooms. Who will pay all these bills..

The debate will be or could be from her end. 
Well sell your home for something smaller and mortgage free. 

The issue here is moving the kids out of the school zone and that other home will not be that much cheaper.. So I might sell my home for 1 million and clear 800k... But the other home might be 800k.. Again I need to accommodate my mother and brother as well.

My simple retort/defense/angle will be as follows..

If I need to sell my home and do any of this and on top of this I cannot find work, if she can't. 

Then my simple point is going to be. IF I need to do ALL OF THIS, to make life easier for my kids.. Then why don't I just sell my home and move to *ANOTHER STATE* where I know for a fact I can build a home for 400k and have 400k in the bank.. 

And on top of this I know for a fact that my pension, which is just about 2k more than my current base pay atm, along with her 200 dollars a month will go much further as things will be much cheaper and I will have more time to spend with my kids.. This is not including other money I will get.. Plus I could then get any small part time job doing anything as long as it does not interfere with my family life.. But I will not be stressing to get a job as it will not be needed..

Which I think I can paint a very good picture for the judge how the quality of life for my kids will be 1000% better and I will use this whole can't get a job issue against her..

Basically the courts will have a hard time playing a double standard. They can't tell me as the parent with physical custody I should work more to support my kids and that I need to stay here because of visitations with the mother. But still defend her no excuse for NOT having full time employment.. 

So its either she gets a full time job or I don't have too either pretty much.. 

I am working over my whole outline on this.. Plus I am pulling up jobs that she can do, when she says I can't find a job.. I want to be able to walk into court with 30 jobs at least printed out that she could do and in her field of work..


----------



## Pluto2

Be sure to include something about how the kids will be able to maintain a relationship with Mom should you move. That's one of the criteria the courts will consider. Not that she will, but you have to show its not overly burdensome.


----------



## Hardtohandle

06/25/15 

Went to Family Court today.. 
My Ex requested a court appointed lawyer.. Of course they denied it because she makes too much money or I should say has the potential to make money but refuses. 

Nonetheless the judge pointed her in the direction of getting a possible free or low cost lawyer and adjourned the case until August 18th.. 

Called my lawyer and he expressed that she really does not have many choices left. He hopes the lawyer she gets explains this to her. 

Part of me feels bad because I know regardless it's going to be a decent amount of money out of her pocket.. I was willing to take less and let it not be such a strain on her, but my lawyer is STFU and let the judge decide what she needs to give you.. So I am going to do that.

Broke up with the GF on Monday 6/22.. 

We fought every week.. I could never get why we just couldn't get along.. I just didn't understand it.. Even she would say it.. But regardless we would fight..

I just started realizing she was lazy, she pretty much made the excuse that she couldn't take care of her kids because she was busy working.. Her daughter needed to wear any eye patch to strengthen her weaker eye.. Mind you it was so bad she could only see the top BIG letter on the eye chart.. The doctor said she has a small window of opportunity to fix this or at least make it a bit better.. 

The GF just doesn't have her doing it.. I had argue with her to have her do it.. She tells me, what your on the side of my Ex now ? 

I responded I'm on the side of your fvcking daughter.. 

Again mind you she whined about her daughter having to wear glasses and also braces but just doesn't want to really do anything about it.. 

It is as if she just wants it to magically fix itself..

We bought her youngest daughter a bed about 8 to 10 months ago.. The GF made this big push to tell her daughter what a big girl she is and to get her in the bed.. End result the daughter sleeps in her bed regardless. The beds are in the same room 5 feet away from each other.

I used to see my GF once or twice during the week and then on Friday night starting at 11pm and then saturday and sunday until 1 or 4 pm depending on what was going on.. Sometimes even 6 pm on sunday. So it was about 4 to 5 days a week.

Nonetheless, we started seeing each other less and I realized it as we didn't spend anytime during the week together. I would come over during the night at 7pm but then go home after 1 hour or so.. During times when she needed to do billing for work I wouldn't see her at all for at least 2 weeks excluding the weekends.. But even then I would go home on a saturday and then come back saturday night so she could do some billing.

I told her why couldn't I sleep over during the week, one night.. Her excuse was her daughter that sleeps in her room would hear us having sex as she is 4 years old and such and that the girls wanted to sleep in her bed with her. 

So I said, well then we will be adults and not have sex.. I think we can restrain ourselves for a night.. Plus it will just make us more heated when we see each other on Friday night.. 

Her response was basically well the girls want to sleep in my bed with me or at least the 4 year old does and I don't want to fight to put her in her bed and upset her.. Too much trouble for me. So if you're okay with her in the bed with us then fine.. 

Of course I wasn't.. I realized that or at least I felt, her making this excuse was pretty much telling me she can't go out saturday night because she needs to wash her hair and I told her that.. 

I went through the motions of explaining that putting her and teaching her to sleep in her own bed wasn't a bad thing.. I wasn't asking her to put her on the couch or sleep on broken glass.

As we discussing moving in together, I asked her how would you deal with it then ? I expressed, do you think her sleeping in her OWN bed in her OWN room is going to be better ?.. Now that she is really all alone that she will be okay with it ?

I have seen her daughter scream and flip out.. She basically does what many kids do.. She just screams louder and louder until it sounds like someone is killing her.. Then she is really worked up and out of control. 

I just felt if she couldn't do right by her own kids and couldn't do this ( putting her daughter in her own bed ) for us to be together a bit more than it was obvious to me that my kids would be second place in her eyes..

Whereas I put her kids first ALONG with my kids.. I knew I couldn't treat anyone more different than the other.. 

I asked and told her, I just don't see where the disconnect here is with putting your daughter in her own bed.. I asked her, can you tell me how this is a bad thing ? You just can't do this for us to be together a bit more ?.. 

I called her out on it as I knew she performed these types of tactics with other guys she wasn't interested anymore.. She would slowly cut them off until they caught the hint.. She denied it but I didn't believe her.

Regardless I have to say I feel okay.. I am not yearning for her or thinking about her.. Part of me feels relieved and I'm not going to lie that I am a bit excited that I will be able to save more money now.. 

Therapist says she will call and asked me what I will do when she calls crying.. I told him I don't really think she will call.. She is more of get over and under him type of girl.. She will fvck her way out of forgetting me.. 

But he still wanted to know the what if.. I told him it would be rough hearing her cry, I would feel bad.. I said I would hope I do the right thing and move on.. But I am sure if she is crying then I am sure she will tell me she will change her ways also.. 

Who the fvck knows..


----------



## happyman64

Your Ex has 9 lives in the court room.

I hope the judge sets her straight before the summer is over.

And believe it or not I think you were smart to break it off with the GF.

She has issues herself and well as with her kids.

There are better women out there for you.

Give it time.

HM


----------



## ThePheonix

Hardtohandle said:


> Broke up with the GF on Monday 6/22..
> 
> We fought every week.. I could never get why we just couldn't get along.. I just didn't understand it.. Even she would say it.. But regardless we would fight..
> 
> I just started realizing she was lazy, she pretty much made the excuse that she couldn't take care of her kids because she was busy working..


*Good call my man*


----------



## Hardtohandle

You know I have seen so many things in life and in my career in the police department.. But its obvious I'm not that sharp as many in the dating scene.. I'm learning but a bit afraid as well of what is out here..


----------



## Openminded

She'll call. She's done it every time you've broken up. She's an expert at manipulating you and so far she's been successful. The question is whether she will be successful this time. 

There are plenty of good women out there but she's not one of them. Look for them and quit settling for her.


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> But he still wanted to know the what if.. I told him it would be rough hearing her cry, I would feel bad.. I said I would hope I do the right thing and move on.. But I am sure if she is crying then I am sure she will tell me she will change her ways also..
> 
> Who the fvck knows..


No, you DO know she won't change her ways. So put that idea out of your mind right now.

AS for the phone call, create a cheat sheet. Write down all the reasons you aren't together - all the bad stuff. On one piece of paper. Keep it in your wallet and, if she does call, pull it out while she's talking and read it to yourself. Remind yourself WHY this didn't work out. Will make it easier to say no.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> No, you DO know she won't change her ways. So put that idea out of your mind right now.
> 
> AS for the phone call, create a cheat sheet. Write down all the reasons you aren't together - all the bad stuff. On one piece of paper. Keep it in your wallet and, if she does call, pull it out while she's talking and read it to yourself. Remind yourself WHY this didn't work out. Will make it easier to say no.


Turnera, oddly before reading your post this is what I was mentally doing.. Its a week and I was feeling weak.. I had to remind myself why I broke it off. 

It just seems my breaks ups are never just 2 people moving on, but instead a big F/U fight.. I'm 48 years old I need to find a more adult way about these things..

Nonetheless, I did text her today a simple text of basically,* I'm sorry things ended the way they did.. But even I was getting tired of fighting every week.. We just were on 2 different pages when it came to our kids.. Again I'm sorry, I wish it could have worked out*

An hour later I got the F/U don't text me.. You left me when I needed you.. You showed me your lack of loyalty and how disgusting you really are.. I don't love you and when I think of you I just hate you even more.. 

There was more, but that was the gist of it..

I of course didn't respond back.


----------



## farsidejunky

H2H, I knew as soon as I saw the bolded update in the subscriptions screen, you had reached out to her again. Call it intuition.

LET HER GO.


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## karole

You, my dear sir, are a glutton for punishment. You've been going back and forth with this crazy yahoo for how long?? You need to delete her number out of your phone, forget about her, and move on with your life. Are you in counseling to figure out why you chose this type of woman to be in a relationship with, get rid of them, and then go back for more? Work on fixing your woman picker HTH.


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## Openminded

I'm betting she'll get over over her anger. And she'll be back. That's been her pattern and you've always bought into it -- thinking it will be different with one more try. But it never is. 

The question is if she comes back again can you finally free yourself of her drama and move on. And find someone who's actually good for you. That's what you need to do but can you actually do it. For your sake, I hope you can.


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## Hardtohandle

Need to learn how to use the multiquote thing..

But 

I've been talking about it with my friends as well. Everyone feels I did the right thing.. 

I only messaged her because I just felt bad how it ended. I even deleted my own sent message after sending it. I also deleted her message as well. 

As rough as it might be, I will stick to my guns. Though I won't lie that I do miss her. But I realize I can't change anyone and eventually even if she changes for me, those changes are temporary.. Eventually it implodes on you.. 

Its the fixer or helper or savior in me.. 

The thing is we were a couple.. We talked about getting married, we talked about how we were going to move in together.. 

I just didn't feel confident with her.. Her excuse was always I work.. I can't do this because I work a lot.. I'm too tired because I work a lot.. I'm too busy because I work a lot. I can't take care of my kids because I work a lot.. 

Deep down I just felt that was excuse so she wouldn't have to do things..

On Saturday mornings we would take her daughter to dance.. Mind you my GF was always late for just about EVERYTHING... So this dance things wasn't any exception. 

It got to the point in an attempt to make it on time, I would leave the GF apartment, go pick up her daughter and then come back and pick her up.. But even then we had to wait for her to come down..

I had intentions of giving her my murano because it was nicer and better for her work and I would get another car for myself and then a caravan for all the kids and us but have my brother drive it around to take my mom around and then when I needed it for the family I would trade off my cars for the caravan.. 

I was looking to do tons of work in my home for her and the kids.. 

But in the end she would complain to me because I would make a sarcastic remark about picking up a used tissue off the floor in her apartment that I seen laying there for 2 days without being picked up.. 

My comment was " It's okay, I will pick this up.. Don't worry I got it.." 

Mind you we weren't arguing, but I would say babe this thing was on the floor for 2 days. Why couldn't you pick it up and just throw it in the garbage ? 

I have a cleaning lady that does that was the response.. I would tell her. Its Saturday she doesn't come until Monday. You're just going to leave it there all weekend ? 

Again I am far from a neat freak and I am lazy myself.. But holy cow.. 

But in the end I started looking away from the pvssy and realizing all of this.. 

I really started saying I am doing all of this, what is she doing ? I'm looking to lay out well over 200k, what is she doing ? 

She can't even get up in the morning to take her kids to school, that her mom and dad do it.. She is going to take my kid to school ?.. 

It just started to become one sided I felt.. 

I just felt that without a nanny and a house cleaner we couldn't survive doing it on our own.. 

She still gave her 12 year old daughter a bath and complained how much she had to do after work for her kids.. I told her let her daughter take her own shower and this will relieve her of this burden.. She just wouldn't do it.. Made excuses she didn't know how to wash her hair properly.. 

I told her teach her, she will get it eventually.. 

Again she wanted things either to happen magically on their own or basically have someone else do it.. But she also wanted to reserve the right to complain about it also and tell you when you're not doing it right.. 

Sadly I realize I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole.. I was hoping for change that wasn't gonna happen.. I just figured I would take on the burden.. At times I would say these girls need me because these 2 ( GF and Husband ) are just totally retarded..


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> But in the end I started looking away from the pvssy and realizing all of this..


One of the most astute things I've ever read here.

Now that you're away from her, PLEASE get into therapy. I know you probably don't think you need it, but find one, go there, and tell them that you have a Savior Complex and ask them to help you with that. May only take a few weeks, but I guarantee they can help you with a few things so that when you're ready to start looking again, you don't fall for another User.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> One of the most astute things I've ever read here.
> 
> Now that you're away from her, PLEASE get into therapy. I know you probably don't think you need it, but find one, go there, and tell them that you have a Savior Complex and ask them to help you with that. May only take a few weeks, but I guarantee they can help you with a few things so that when you're ready to start looking again, you don't fall for another User.


Turnera I go to therapy

We have discussed it... I realized this issue a while ago.. My mind set is it will get better and it will work itself out.. 

When it comes to relationships I need to learn things are the way they are and nothing should be over looked.. But I don't also want to be hyper critical of someone as well.. Its a fine line from going to one extreme to another and I can see myself swinging the other way as well and trying to have everything too perfect..

I come to realize or figure out that anything that has to do with kids is number one on my list of things to look for.. 

So next time around if I see this person isn't looking to take their kid to the doctor because they are too lazy, then I need to realize they won't do it for mine as well, maybe.. It is something I would definitely need to bring up and hear a answer..

Sadly its lessons learned.. 

My only issue is the anxiety that comes along with the break up.. I keep hearing myself in my head trying to justify a few things and I start to think I was too critical of her.. Maybe she was just busy and tired and I shot her down for it goes through my head.. Maybe I am skewing things.. Maybe if she told the story it might make sense and I might be the bad guy.. Again who knows.. 

Its just the what if break ups.. I'm 48 not 28... I don't want to waste another 2 to 4 years of my life trying to find the right person just to realize it was me being a d0uche all along and being too critical of the person.. Get what I'm saying.. 

I'm just second guessing myself right now..


----------



## Openminded

Stop second-guessing yourself. That's how you end up back with her every single time. And stop thinking things just work themselves out. They very rarely do. 

Start looking for someone else. And don't look back. You deserve a good life. Make it happen.

PS
It was obvious from the beginning she wasn't suitable for you. Listen to that voice and not the other one.


----------



## alte Dame

I actually think that the points you raise about her say a lot about your own healthy outlook.

I think you are right to have issues with those things. You want a mature woman who doesn't act spoiled or lazy. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I hope you stay broken up and move on to someone who is a better match for you.


----------



## Iver

Seriously? A dirty kleenex was on the floor for two days and she wouldn't pick it up and throw it out???

That's a Deal Breaker.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/05/15 Sunday

4th of July was great took the kids to see the Macy's fireworks. Was right up and close in the Police viewing area..

Don't miss the GF to be honest. I miss the companionship or being with someone.. And honestly getting sex 3 or 4 times a week wasn't bad either.. 

But I'm truthfully OK.. 

The ONLY way I could ever see me ever getting back with her is if she just bowed down and submitted to my will. I just can't explain it any easier than that to be honest.. 

I know that isn't gonna happen. She needs to be in control and have someone to blame when things go wrong..


----------



## happyman64

You need to find the right woman. 

She was clearly not it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/09/15 Thursday..

I received a tentative job offer at a bank. They even mentioned that another spot was open that was noncompetitive with my spot and if I knew anyone.. I immediately mentioned my partner from work.. 

The salary is very good. 

I am waiting for monday to be given an official offer.

I have to say I am excited about it.. 

But part of me feels bad or sad. If that is the right words... 

I feel sad that my ex wife could have been part of this with me.. Things are going so well for me after my divorce.. It so strange.. 

Even my kids are excited and happy for me.. 

August 13 is my court date for child support.. lets see how that ends up..

I spoke to my lawyer about my change in circumstances and he asked me if my income would be over 180k.. I said combined with my pension ? 

He off the cuff said yea, sure.. 
I responded yes.. He was very surprised... 
I don't think he will be offering me anymore free advice.. 

Regardless lets see what happens..

As for the Ex GF still no contact.. Which is good honestly.. 

Yesterday was the first time my mom said something nice about the EX GF.. She said she liked her but she could see she wasn't right for me.. But that she was very beautiful and seemed nice enough.. Mom said it's a shame she just wasn't a bit more together with her kids.. 

Not gonna lie, it was nice to see my mom approved of someone I was with.. 

Another story...

Monday I forget both pair of reading glasses at home.. I need glasses to read and see the computer screen at work. .My eyes kill me otherwise and I can't do it for more than 30 minutes..

I decide to go to a pharmacy near a store my friend and coworker goes to get something to eat.. I go to the back where they keep the reading glasses near the pharmacy.. 

I look over at the female pharmacist and recognize her from POF over a year ago.. I have my friend get a look at her and I go back on POF searching for her and confirmed with him it was the same female.. Even had her job listed as pharmacist..

I am holding out a bit but will go back and introduce myself..


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/10/15 Friday

Was just surfing POF and getting a feel for it again.. I was just messing around and set the age from 39 to 43 and the EX GF came up.. She put herself down as 39 when she is actually 42.. I felt a slight twinge but got over it.. I closed out the tab nonetheless. 

I think I will hold out another month before I do anything on any dating site or dating anyone in general.


----------



## turnera

What kind of relationship can you have with someone if it starts out on a lie?


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> What kind of relationship can you have with someone if it starts out on a lie?


No clue why I get so attached and not see things for what they are.. 

I want to hope that I can teach my boys to know better..


----------



## bandit.45

Don't beat yourself up H2H. I have a broken picker too. My last few relationships were heartbreakers. That's why I no longer date. I'm just not good at it.


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> No clue why I get so attached and not see things for what they are..
> 
> I want to hope that I can teach my boys to know better..


Try reading the first half of Getting the Love You Want. It does a good job of explaining why our pickers are broken and how to fix it.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/11/15 Saturday

Fell apart this morning.. Bit depressed. Yes I have issues with being alone and yes I know I have my kids.. Its just not the same thing.. 

I did text the ex GF to try to talk to her.. She immediately and aggressively shot me down.. 

I downloaded that book Turnera and am I am trying to get the audiobook as well.. Whatever works..


----------



## turnera

Are you on antidepressants? May be helpful for a few months.


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## Openminded

You are not comfortable being alone and that's why you rushed into that relationship so quickly (plus you were impressed by the way she looked). You should be addressing your emotional neediness in IC because it's a hindrance in moving forward (few women are wired to see that as a positive and over time we can find it very tiresome to deal with). 

Thankfully, your XGF shot you down or you'd be back with her now. You need to find out why you do that so you can quit making the same mistakes.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Are you on antidepressants? May be helpful for a few months.


Honestly I would rather intelligently figure out my issues and learn from them. Again I'm not insulting anyone here who does or did take meds.. It's just me.. If I fought off suicide I can do this.. 

I got the audio book. 
I will be listening to it on the way to work and such..

You know, I just didn't trust her.. I just never felt comfortable with her after certain things and stories.. 

She just told me too many stories about fvcking other guys 20 years ago.. But then tells me she changed and got that out of her system..

But then in the next breath when she seen me logged on POF after our first date. She went out on a date with a guy she was seeing. 

I mentioned this before and will for clarity here.. I was on POF talking to my friends ExGF that he dated for many years and had just broken up with him. I was playing matchmaker of sorts as I knew he missed her and cared for her. 

So to me I can understand what she is saying. But instead of confronting me about it and me just showing her.. She went out with this guy.. Since I know they have fvcked in the past, there was nothing from them fvcking again. The sex part didn't bother me that much honestly. But what bothered me was passive aggressive sh!t like this.. 

She expressed in the past that when she felt slighted, she would do this type of stuff.. Her mindset used to be if a boyfriend went on vacation with his friends it meant he was out fvcking and that she could do the same.. 

I would talk to her about this and explain that she couldn't do things like that.. That she just needed to talk to me. 

She allowed this married guy to record them having sex.. She panicked when I was looking through her computer and confessed to it.. I again was a bit upset.. I told her you're the mother of 2 girls.. What if your 12 year old found the video ? 

What if this guy post it online ? Goes around showing all his friends, which is probably what he did.. I explained to her the dozens of call we get a year from women who do this exact same thing and we cannot do anything about it, unless we can see it was a hidden camera.. But I told her most of the time the woman is smiling at the camera with a c0ck in her mouth, so its pretty hard to go that route.. 

Of course she was scared after realizing.. 

But I need someone who realize this before doing this... 

I tell you I see my friend chatting it up with exGF that he remained friends with and they send him inappropriate pics all the time.. In my mind I think what happens when this woman meets a man she loves and he finds out she has send pics of her body out to a dozen men.. Mind you again these are women with kids.. I just don't get it.. My GF wanted nude pics of me and such.. I didn't want to give them to her.. I just seen too many What IF sh!t happen to people.. I would be embarrassed for my kids... 

She had her kids for 2 weekends back to back because her mom went on vacation and then got sick.. She was an UTTER WRECK.... She literally said she needed a break.. I was a bit thrown back and laughed.. 

She had no discipline for her kids and her oldest needed a lot of work because of her issues and she just didn't do it.. I always told her you need to work with her MORE because of this.. You need to be on point with her ALL THE TIME... 

A simple example, she had issues tying her shoes at 12.. So instead of making her work at doing it, she would look to buy her velcro type shoes.. 

She was too busy because she needed to give her 12 year old a bath.. I told her let her take her own bath.. Her answer is, she has issues washing her hair.. But her STBXH would tell her that the daughter would take showers over the GF house and wash her hair.. Again her response and excuse, she didn't do it right it was still dirty.. 

I would tell her, then make her shower more than once a week and have her wash her hair every time until she gets it.. I kept telling her, if something happens to you. She needs to be a little bit ready for life..

Other people will NOT be so easy on her or so kind.. Other people will take advantage of her.. 

But she didn't care.

But beyond this something always came up about some other guy.. I told her for a week, a simple 7 days.. I don't want to hear about any other man that is NOT me or your father.. I just need a break from it..

Here is another thing that made me wonder..

I had to fight tooth and nail with her over this guy friend bullsh!t.. 

But one guy who did some extermination for her and some minor handy work.. He just disappeared out of the picture.. He was there for a while and I sort of let him stay for a bit in her life.. But again the things she told me and such didn't sit well with me. Again why she would tell me ?

But regardless he just vanished one day.. I found it strange.. I told her and confronted her about it.. I admitted I had an issue with it.. My thoughts on this is they were fvcking. But, were they fvcking while I was with her.. I honestly don't know.. Part of me says yes.. 

I told her I am pretty sure the reason he just disappeared is because his own wife had some suspicions and issues with there relations and my EXGF probably brought up my own issues to this guy.. He was smart enough to realize that I could bring this up and his wife would agree.. He didn't want any problems and cut it off.. 

Funny how she would profess she was the most honest, loyal and giving to me beyond anyone else.. She would profess she never loved anyone including her Husband like she loved me.. 

I would tell her what you're saying to me is something us normal people do every day in a relationship.. That is what a relationship is about.. You make it sound like this is work and an effort.

She acted like she should get a reward for being so good. I told you do.. You get to keep this relationship another day.. 

You know she could of have been telling me the truth all along, but her actions and all the stories she would tell me made me paint another picture of her.. 

This whole guy thing just really felt underhanded and sneaky.. I just never felt well with it.. 

Again posted this in the past.. But the time I caught her lying and I walked out and she came after me was the time I should have worked to maybe correct the situation or just walked away..


I guess I'm trying to justify it all and vent.. I have not had one friend tell me I was wrong about my feelings.. Everyone seen the issues but me.. I kept trying to sugarcoat stuff.. I don't get why, when I seen it myself.. 

My mom just came up... She was going to the cemetery to see my middle brother.. She knew I was upset and sad over the break up.. She almost started to cry because she knew I was sad.. 
I told her everything was okay and fine.. I felt bad and didn't want my 83 year old mom crying over my issues..


----------



## ThePheonix

H2H, I don't know whether the books you're reading address it or not, but here's some advice you damn well better listen to. Never attempt to rescue a damsel in distress. There are too many healthy women out there. Going for a woman with an "rounder" past is equivalent to a woman going for a ex-con. Nine times out of ten, they are going to knock your d!ck in the dirt. Its like buying a vehicle my man, your luck getting a good one is directly proportional to how you pick them.


----------



## aine

Yes, why are you hanging around with women who have so much baggage? You have to set your sights higher and place more value on yourself and what you are capable of. There are women out there who want a decent and loving man and they do not have all the baggage you just described.


----------



## Hardtohandle

This thread helped me out a bit as well

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/259674-casual-dating-3.html#post13103658

I swear the ExGF had me brainwashed.. She made me feel like I was this crazy insecure guy and that no one else she ever dated made her give up her guy friends and were okay with them.. 

That she did this all for me and I still had issues with it.. 

You know with everything that has gone on in my life I really start to wonder if I am just some insecure, controlling tyrant of a nut.. Its like I sit there and wonder am I just really going crazy.. Am I just this crazy ?.. 

Sadly the ExGF knew what I was thinking and would tell me I was.. She would tell me just accept that your crazy and be happy I love you regardless because no one else is gonna deal with your craziness.. 

I would believe her..


----------



## Hardtohandle

aine said:


> Yes, why are you hanging around with women who have so much baggage? You have to set your sights higher and place more value on yourself and what you are capable of. There are women out there who want a decent and loving man and they do not have all the baggage you just described.


Come on Aine.. I'm stupid that's why.. 

Clearly some daddy issues.. My dad left when I was 12. Never really had a father figure.. I'm sure it stems from that some how..


----------



## ThePheonix

You're not stupid but maybe a little naive. Here's a major clue she the wrong woman for you---She tell you, in so many words, how lucky you are to be with her. Youre looking for a girl who tells you how lucky they are to have found you. Don't think you're stupid because things go south. You're test driving to find the right one Dawg. Like the girls say, "you've got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince".


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> I swear the ExGF had me brainwashed.. She made me feel like I was this crazy insecure guy and that no one else she ever dated made her give up her guy friends and were okay with them..
> 
> *That she did this all for me* and I still had issues with it..


It's funny, I just had a conversation with my H about this yesterday. There's a guy who wants to be part of my H's company; my H owns the company, but this guy wants to be part of it. Yet, every time they're supposed to get together to discuss things, the guy inevitably brings up things like 'I thought you said you'd be at ABC place at 11; aren't you serious about this?' or 'How come you didn't bring the XYZ; don't you want to make this work?'

Basically, every interaction is an opportunity for him to BLAME my H for something, to back him up against the wall and make him feel GUILTY and feel like he has to apologize to this guy. I told H that that's the way the guy operates - he gets his way by always having people feeling like they have to kiss up to him to keep him from being upset with them. That that puts him in a superior position.

Sound familiar?


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> Come on Aine.. I'm stupid that's why..
> 
> Clearly some daddy issues.. My dad left when I was 12. Never really had a father figure.. I'm sure it stems from that some how..


Look for your local Big Brother chapter and sign up to volunteer. Take some young boy under your wing. I'll bet it will all start to come naturally to you. And it will be really GOOD for you, too.


----------



## Openminded

No, you're not stupid. You do have some issues when it comes to picking women, however. 

I have been relentless in my criticism because I hoped you would wake up before you brought her and her children into your home (or, worse, married her). I think you're a good guy who deserves a good woman (and they're out there so start looking).


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Look for your local Big Brother chapter and sign up to volunteer. Take some young boy under your wing. I'll bet it will all start to come naturally to you. And it will be really GOOD for you, too.


Honestly I have 2 boys already that need my attention and one that his mom doesn't even speak to for over 2 years now.. So my hands are full ATM.



Openminded said:


> No, you're not stupid. You do have some issues when it comes to picking women, however.
> 
> I have been relentless in my criticism because I hoped you would wake up before you brought her and her children into your home (or, worse, married her). I think you're a good guy who deserves a good woman (and they're out there so start looking).


Thank's... 

I am taking a break from dating until work stuff settles down..


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> Honestly I have 2 boys already that need my attention and one that his mom doesn't even speak to for over 2 years now.. So my hands are full ATM.


Then take them WITH you to do some volunteering. That's part of raising kids anyway, teaching them to be stewards of society. And it sounds like it will do THEM a lot of good, too.


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## Hardtohandle

07/13/15 Tuesday

Read Ckone1800 thread and fell apart.. It brought back too many memories for me.. Too many emotions.. 

I'm tired of feeling broken..


----------



## ThePheonix

Take my word for it Dawg; you're thinking wrong if you allow yourself to feel broken because you got snookered by a woman. Look around. 8 out of the next 10 men you see have been cheated on at some point or otherwise had their azz kicked by a woman. None of us are immune.


----------



## bfree

Hth, if there was no coming back from being cheated on I'd agree you are broken. But I know that there is life after betrayal and it can and should be a damned good one. Give yourself as much time as you need to clear your head. Ain't no way but up from here.


----------



## Hardtohandle

07/18/15 Saturday

What is going on with my life..

I have to say it is hard being alone, I do feel lonely.. But I am trying to deal with it and I know for my own sake I need to.. 

In my mind I want to be able to date someone else AFTER I overcome this feeling of being alone and lonely.. I need to conquer this feeling..
But again it's hard..

I'm the process of retiring and getting a new job.. I have the new job but still scared.. 

As much as a pain in the a$$ this job can be and as much of a major d0uche my boss can be.. I cannot lose my job short of getting arrested.. My pension is always increasing and I could retire in 5 year making 10k a month.. But it would be a LONG 5 years.. My boss would be looking to make my next 5 years very difficult for me.. Which is something I cannot deal with anymore..

So I am taking a risk and taking a chance on this and hope it works out.. Money wise my income pretty much more than doubles.. 

So I am going with the money and normal hours as I think that is what might be best for my kids.. I've always put money aside for them and will continue.. I am hoping I could also pay up my mortgage a bit faster now.. 

But I am afraid of something bad happening that would cause me to lose this job..


----------



## OldWolf57

That's normal fear HtH. You WILL do well.


----------



## GiveHeadaShake

Hi H2H,

I’ve read your thread over the last week or so. Two bits of relationships advice if I may…

1) Communication of boundaries.

It feels like your communication with your partners… well… it sucks. Before this final time, how many times was it ‘over’ after a huge argument with your last GF? - 5 times? 10? More? You know that most times when you’re having an intense argument about some incident, you’re not really arguing about said incident right? There is usually some core issue(s) that hasn’t been properly resolved. 

Open communication is the key. My wife and I communicate openly about what we are and are not OK with when something first comes up. We talk and deal with issues immediately when they are small. We never have an explosion because issues do not fester and accumulate until someone explodes. Resolve issues when they first come up.

2) Accepting reality

I can only change me. I can communicate with my wife if there is something I’d like her to change. I can even offer to help, but it’s up to her to change. If my wife has one leg, and it bothers me that she hops all the time I have to accept reality. I can either change my own acceptance of the hopping or not change my feelings and let her go.

Your GF had these orbiters for the past 20 (??) years. It bothered you. You knew it, and she knew it. She’d told you she was keeping these ‘friends’. Please accept reality - she wasn't going to change – you can only change you.

All the best to you,

GiveHeadaShake


----------



## Hardtohandle

GiveHeadaShake said:


> Hi H2H,
> 
> I’ve read your thread over the last week or so. Two bits of relationships advice if I may…
> 
> 1) Communication of boundaries.
> 
> It feels like your communication with your partners… well… it sucks. Before this final time, how many times was it ‘over’ after a huge argument with your last GF? - 5 times? 10? More? You know that most times when you’re having an intense argument about some incident, you’re not really arguing about said incident right? There is usually some core issue(s) that hasn’t been properly resolved.
> 
> Open communication is the key. My wife and I communicate openly about what we are and are not OK with when something first comes up. We talk and deal with issues immediately when they are small. We never have an explosion because issues do not fester and accumulate until someone explodes. Resolve issues when they first come up.
> 
> 2) Accepting reality
> 
> I can only change me. I can communicate with my wife if there is something I’d like her to change. I can even offer to help, but it’s up to her to change. If my wife has one leg, and it bothers me that she hops all the time I have to accept reality. I can either change my own acceptance of the hopping or not change my feelings and let her go.
> 
> Your GF had these orbiters for the past 20 (??) years. It bothered you. You knew it, and she knew it. She’d told you she was keeping these ‘friends’. Please accept reality - she wasn't going to change – you can only change you.
> 
> All the best to you,
> 
> GiveHeadaShake



You know the sad reality here is.. She was telling me.. I just wanted to turn a blind eye.. She made it clear repeatedly she gave up her friends for me, meaning these orbiters and not female friends.. Those gave her up as well..

She told me the female friends she had dropped her because basically she was getting all the attention.. Mind you she is very attractive, but I have seen some of her friends she went out with.. Some of them are very attractive themselves.. Very.. 

She clearly was telling me things like she has been the most honest and loyal she has ever been with someone since has been with me.. This was in an attempt to calm my anger or frustrations wit her.. 

She would tell me stories of men going way out of line with her while she was married and the issues it would cause.. Mind you she told me some and clearly told me if this bothered me I wouldn't want to hear the rest and it was even worse.. 

But again I turned a blind eye.. I thought I could change her.. I thought she wanted to change.. I thought if I just showed her what a normal relationship was about that she wouldn't need this tug of war with me over who was on top.. As I feel her issue was she needed to keep me in check by letting me know something else was out there for her.. 

I clearly expressed to her that keeping me insecure and in fear of losing this relationship only works so long.. 

The sad part is when she wasn't reliving the past she was great, a real loving person.. She wanted many of the same things as I did when it related to family stuff.. 

But again I started to realize that when she said she couldn't get up in the morning to be a board of ed teacher. I realized she was selfish.. She couldn't put in the effort to WAKE UP in the morning to have a lower paying job but with benefits and medical coverage and on top a pension she could collect eventually.. She needed medical coverage desperately for herself and her kids.. 

She always talked about putting money away for a pension like a 401k But she had no clue how much money she wanted to put away how much money she wanted to have when she retired.. ETC.. But she never did it regardless.. But she kept telling me that she had to do it.. That I had a pension and she wanted one too.. 

I told her yea but I started my pension 25 year ago.. I was 23.. you're 42 and you want to start now.. You need to put A LOT of money away if you want my type of pension.. I mean A LOT.. You're not going to get a 5k a month pension putting away 10k a year for the next 20 years.. Well you can but it will go fast regardless of the interest you will collect because you're in this pension system by YOURSELF..

But if you join the board of ed with the other 1000s of teachers all of you will be in this pension system together and all your monies will collect interest a lot faster then by yourself.. This is why they can do this.. They are investing 100 million, not 10k.. 

As another example I am nervous about leaving my job and me being so open I have no qualms about telling them I'm happy to be here but also scared.. But a friend of my straight out told me DON'T SAY THAT.. It sounds like you're scared and want your mommy. But that is why I talk to my friends about such things.

She just didn't get I should not be told all these things.. These were personal things I didn't need to know.. 

She could have been the salt of the earth but she literally scared me out of this relationship.. 

Mind you she expressed sometimes about other having issues with some of this sh!t.. You would think she would have caught a hint.. 

But again She couldn't wake up early for her own kids.. She wasn't gonna do it for me or my kids.. 

I realized all of this and just turned a blind eye.. Better yet I just said I could and would do it.. In my mind I said her kids need me.. That they both her and her husband were retarded in their own ways and they needed some normalcy in their lives.. Even her mother would apologize for her sometimes.. 

But part of me is like, man this could have worked.. It would have been good for the both of us.. I would have done whatever was necessary for the relationship.. I completely and totally understand you need to bend for a relationship to work, especially when you're older because you are set in your ways and kids are involved.. It just can't be one person bends and makes it good for the other person and the other person's kids.. 

This sh!t is actually harder now. Its not work.. But with kids and such there are more complications and people need to understand and accept that.. 

Thats great you never woke up at 6am in your life.. But when you decide to be with someone you might have to get up at 6am to deal with your blended family of kids.. You both might have to get up at 6am to deal with all the kids.. I think it's a common sense reality.. I understood it and think she did.. But just said she wasn't gonna do it.. Well she did for the most part.. It wasn't in her to do that was her words.. I told her your mom pretty much said to me she not gonna come over my house to do this for you.. I almost felt the uncertainty in her when I said and she realized it would just be me and her.. 

But I just ignored and keep going along with it..


----------



## Pluto2

HTH, a lot of this sounds like during the relationship, you saw how you wanted things to be, rather than how they really were.

No one should have to do all the bending in a relationship. You do that and you break. So try to learn from this and hopefully it will be easier the next time.

And I have complete confidence that you and the new job will be a good fit.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Pluto2 said:


> HTH, a lot of this sounds like during the relationship, you saw how you wanted things to be, rather than how they really were.
> 
> .


That is pretty much it.. 

Therapist is actually happy I learned from this experience..


----------



## Hardtohandle

If I have never said it or if anyone didn't know yet..

I have issues being alone.. Its hard to admit.. I'm scared in many ways.. I really want someone with me when the day comes my mom passes.. She is very old at the age of 83.. She helps me out tons.

She tells me she will live until my youngest is 18 and then she will pass.. He is 10 now.. I honestly hope she does live until then.. 

Me and my mom have been through a lot together as I grew up.. I'm afraid to lose her.. She is my rock.. She cries when I'm sad.. She feels bad for me.. I tell her everything is okay.. But its not..

I'm holding out but it's rough..


----------



## lifeistooshort

Hardtohandle said:


> If I have never said it or if anyone didn't know yet..
> 
> I have issues being alone.. Its hard to admit.. I'm scared in many ways.. I really want someone with me when the day comes my mom passes.. She is very old at the age of 83.. She helps me out tons.
> 
> She tells me she will live until my youngest is 18 and then she will pass.. He is 10 now.. I honestly hope she does live until then..
> 
> Me and my mom have been through a lot together as I grew up.. I'm afraid to lose her.. She is my rock.. She cries when I'm sad.. She feels bad for me.. I tell her everything is okay.. But its not..
> 
> I'm holding out but it's rough..


Don't know if this will help but I was like that with my dad. He and I used to talk every day and as long as he was around there was someone who got me and was there for me.

He passed 3 years ago at age 67 of lung cancer, he battled it for several years and when it was time to go I held his hand and told him it was time to move on. He died that night.

It sucks, I miss him every day but life does go on. There are times when I really wish I could talk to him but most of the time I'm thankful for the time I had with him and think about the funny stuff he used to say. I could write a book about sh!t my dad said. The funny thing is that even when I wish I could talk to him I already know what he'd say.

Sometimes I have dreams where he pops in, don't know if it's my own head or not but it doesn't matter.

I bet you'll settle into something like that with your mom too. It's not the same as having them around but it's ok, and everyone has to go eventually. In the mean time enjoy her company.


----------



## happyman64

HTH

Most of us hate being alone.

And my parents rock but they are getting along in years as well.

Stop worrying about the job. Put all of your emotional energies into doing the job.

Stop worrying about being alone. Be confident, look confident.

When that happens I assure you that you will not be alone for long.

Enjoy the ride more. Start worrying less. Focus on you, your kids and your Mom.

And she will around a lot longer if you can get your emotions under control sooner.

Just do it. You have so much going for you.

HM


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> If I have never said it or if anyone didn't know yet..
> 
> I have issues being alone.. Its hard to admit.. I'm scared in many ways.. I really want someone with me when the day comes my mom passes.. She is very old at the age of 83.. She helps me out tons.
> 
> She tells me she will live until my youngest is 18 and then she will pass.. He is 10 now.. I honestly hope she does live until then..
> 
> Me and my mom have been through a lot together as I grew up.. I'm afraid to lose her.. She is my rock.. She cries when I'm sad.. She feels bad for me.. I tell her everything is okay.. But its not..
> 
> I'm holding out but it's rough..


My best friend has lived with her mom her entire life except for college. Her mom just passed last week, at 86. My friend LIVED to take care of her mother; I've never met anyone so close to their mother. But surprisingly, she's doing ok. She has strength she never knew she had; and her mom lived a long long life, a great life, so there's little room for regret.

You'll be ok. You just don't know it yet.

And btw, learning to be ok alone is probably the greatest growth opportunity you'll ever have in your life.


----------



## just got it 55

HTH You were a NYC Detective Right ?

Very very few men or women can do that job

Come on Man you can do this

55


----------



## Hardtohandle

just got it 55 said:


> HTH You were a NYC Detective Right ?
> 
> Very very few men or women can do that job
> 
> Come on Man you can do this
> 
> 55


Soon to be retired, hopefully.. 

07/28/15 Tuesday.. 

I have the world by the balls.. But I am an utter wreck..

I'm trying to man up and I am keeping myself composed.. But its hard.. I'm screaming on the inside.. 

I'm hoping this new job will clear my head a bit and keep me busy.. 
I'm hoping that the work on the house will change some stuff up as well. 
I need a cleaning lady.. I need to get off my a$$ and do something.. I need to go to the gym.. But have zero fvcking incentive or motivation.. 

I need a plan..


----------



## turnera

I've been in the same boat today, my friend. THIS close to a full-blown panic attack. Crying at every turn. Wanting to just go to sleep but having responsibilities.

Sometimes I just have to chalk some days up as 'wash days.' Days you just wash away and vow to start over tomorrow.


----------



## just got it 55

turnera said:


> I've been in the same boat today, my friend. THIS close to a full-blown panic attack. Crying at every turn. Wanting to just go to sleep but having responsibilities.
> 
> Sometimes I just have to chalk some days up as 'wash days.' Days you just wash away and vow to start over tomorrow.


T with your amazing words of wisdom It's incomprehensible to me to read your words here 

I guess that's why they call us humans

Your post brings a Sting song to mind

"If I ever lose my faith in you"

Hope tomorrow is better for you and HTH

55


----------



## Hardtohandle

just got it 55 said:


> T with your amazing words of wisdom It's incomprehensible to me to read your words here
> 
> I guess that's why they call us humans
> 
> Your post brings a Sting song to mind
> 
> "If I ever lose my faith in you"
> 
> Hope tomorrow is better for you and HTH
> 
> 55


Let me tell you 55.. I was thinking the same exact thing.. If Turnera is feeling this way it MUST BE a BAD DAY... 

I really listen to many people here, yourself included as well as Happyman.. But Turnera is like a hand on my shoulder in the dark sometimes. I think it just the woman thing.. When I read what Turnera says I just hear it in soft womens voice.. 

But Turnera I'm sorry you're having a bad day.. I wish I could something to make you feel better because you are that kind of person that deserves it..


----------



## turnera

Awww shucks, guys. lol

Today is better, thanks.


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/02/15 Sunday

I'm falling apart.. I'm crying.. I miss the ExGF.. 

I know its crazy.. I know.. 

I'm afraid with all these emotions that I am going to fvck up on this new job.. I just got the letter of intent.. 

I know I need to move on with my work and personal relationships.. But I feel like a deer in the headlights..

I bought some running sneakers and I'm going to go do that today.

But I am emotionally spent..


----------



## alte Dame

I don't know how much the words of others help, but here goes:

When I was in my 20's, my mother died suddenly and my father fell apart. I wound up essentially parenting the 3 younger ones. I was in grad school and thought I was managing the grief and work and everything else, but at one point I crashed. Serious panic attacks, some of them right in the middle of work. I mean I was standing in front of a class of undergraduates, teaching, when I thought I would pass out in front of them. I got some help & the panic got a bit better, but not completely.

A few years later, I had a cancer diagnosis. Enter the panic and depression again. Nothing like a little fear about dying to bring on the anxiety.

And then I got married and had two children who, because of my cancer treatment, were born dangerously premature. I spent many terrifying hours in the NICU staving off the panic.

So, about 8 years of my life that felt like a train of pain barreling at me.

Here is what helped me stop the pain and panic & get my life back. For me it was stupidly simple:

- I gave up the burden of worry as much as possible. I just gave in. If I died, OK. If I was alone, OK. I couldn't control most of the things I was freaking out about, so I gave up worrying (as much as a person like me can) about them. I focused on my work and my children. I stopped being the go-to person for needy friends who dumped their problems on me, but never noticed my pain. I found friends who were like me and would actually offer support so that I didn't always carry burdens alone.

- I stayed with therapy to have an outlet. I talked and talked and cried a lot.

- I got regular physical exercise.

- I listened to classical music. I am a rock and roll woman, but at this period of my life, Bach was a lifesaver.

Basically, I embraced the 'live day to day' philosophy that sounds so simple, but can be so hard. I worked hard, played hard & did my best not to worry about the things that I simply could not influence or control.

In many ways, this was playacting for a while. I was a fake in front of co-workers, family and friends. Eventually, I was better, though, and didn't have to fake it.

For me, handing off the stress, to whatever there is out there in the universe to take it, was the key to healing enough to actually live my life with less pain.

Just fwiw, I guess.

I hope today is a better day for you. You have many friends here, some of whom, like myself, you probably don't realize are pulling for you .


----------



## turnera

Are you spending time with some friends? That's what you need most, IMO.


----------



## MattMatt

Hardtohandle said:


> Soon to be retired, hopefully..
> 
> 07/28/15 Tuesday..
> 
> I have the world by the balls.. But I am an utter wreck..
> 
> I'm trying to man up and I am keeping myself composed.. But its hard.. I'm screaming on the inside..
> 
> I'm hoping this new job will clear my head a bit and keep me busy..
> I'm hoping that the work on the house will change some stuff up as well.
> I need a cleaning lady.. I need to get off my a$$ and do something.. I need to go to the gym.. But have zero fvcking incentive or motivation..
> 
> I need a plan..


Could you become a licensed PI helping betrayed spouses?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Are you spending time with some friends? That's what you need most, IMO.


Sadly ATM friends are just doing different things.. They are doing family things with their kids and wives..

I'm just sort of walking around in circles today.. The weekends are brutal for me right now..


----------



## Decorum

alte Dame said:


> I don't know how much the words of others help, but here goes:
> 
> When I was in my 20's, my mother died suddenly and my father fell apart. I wound up essentially parenting the 3 younger ones. I was in grad school and thought I was managing the grief and work and everything else, but at one point I crashed. Serious panic attacks, some of them right in the middle of work. I mean I was standing in front of a class of undergraduates, teaching, when I thought I would pass out in front of them. I got some help & the panic got a bit better, but not completely.
> 
> A few years later, I had a cancer diagnosis. Enter the panic and depression again. Nothing like a little fear about dying to bring on the anxiety.
> 
> And then I got married and had two children who, because of my cancer treatment, were born dangerously premature. I spent many terrifying hours in the NICU staving off the panic.
> 
> So, about 8 years of my life that felt like a train of pain barreling at me.
> 
> Here is what helped me stop the pain and panic & get my life back. For me it was stupidly simple:
> 
> - I gave up the burden of worry as much as possible. I just gave in. If I died, OK. If I was alone, OK. I couldn't control most of the things I was freaking out about, so I gave up worrying (as much as a person like me can) about them. I focused on my work and my children. I stopped being the go-to person for needy friends who dumped their problems on me, but never noticed my pain. I found friends who were like me and would actually offer support so that I didn't always carry burdens alone.
> 
> - I stayed with therapy to have an outlet. I talked and talked and cried a lot.
> 
> - I got regular physical exercise.
> 
> - I listened to classical music. I am a rock and roll woman, but at this period of my life, Bach was a lifesaver.
> 
> Basically, I embraced the 'live day to day' philosophy that sounds so simple, but can be so hard. I worked hard, played hard & did my best not to worry about the things that I simply could not influence or control.
> 
> In many ways, this was playacting for a while. I was a fake in front of co-workers, family and friends. Eventually, I was better, though, and didn't have to fake it.
> 
> For me, handing off the stress, to whatever there is out there in the universe to take it, was the key to healing enough to actually live my life with less pain.
> 
> Just fwiw, I guess.
> 
> I hope today is a better day for you. You have many friends here, some of whom, like myself, you probably don't realize are pulling for you .



Wonderful post alte Dame, very encouraging, thank you for sharing it.


----------



## Decorum

Hardtohandle said:


> Sadly ATM friends are just doing different things.. They are doing family things with their kids and wives..
> 
> I'm just sort of walking around in circles today.. The weekends are brutal for me right now..


Emotional meaninglessness makes us wanderers in the wilderness of our own lives. You are missing someone to reflect your value back to you, and you are grieving. You are a worthy man and hope will return, and joy with it.

It really will pass, I wish you well.

Take care.


----------



## just got it 55

Hardtohandle said:


> Sadly ATM friends are just doing different things.. They are doing family things with their kids and wives..
> 
> I'm just sort of walking around in circles today.. The weekends are brutal for me right now..


HTH this brings to mind something my Dad use to say alot

Here it is ready ?




You're a long time dead !!!!!!!


So whats your plan big fella ??

55


----------



## alte Dame

Decorum said:


> Wonderful post alte Dame, very encouraging, thank you for sharing it.


Thank you, Decorum .


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> Sadly ATM friends are just doing different things.. They are doing family things with their kids and wives..
> 
> I'm just sort of walking around in circles today.. The weekends are brutal for me right now..


Have you actually INVITED one of your friends to hang out?


----------



## ThePheonix

Hardtohandle said:


> 08/02/15 Sunday
> 
> 
> 
> But I am emotionally spent..


If you don't already have one, you need to buy a motorcycle and spend weekends and every other chance you get, riding.


----------



## aine

This might sound trite HTH but sometimes when we are in the midst of the darkness and the emotions it is better to take the focus of ourselves and put it on someone else. 
At the weekends, join a charitable organisation and do some volunteer work, (disadvantaged youths, the homeless, orphans, whatever) it is amazing how much perspective this can give you. Alternatively if you like animals, work with a shelter. There is so much need for volunteers in this world. You meet other people too and realise that your circumstances may be ****ty right now but you have the power to sow something good into the lives of others who really don't have anyone. You can do this, just pick yourself up, put one foot in front of the other and take it day by day. Time will heal your wounds.


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/06/15 Thursday

Filed for Retirement, though I am still here 30 days more. Working on closing out cases and sorting all the financials out..

Retiring and getting this new job felt like a hollow victory.. It felt like having a fight with a 10 year old kid and getting an award for it.. 

I reached out to the ExGF.. I know it's all crazy.. I just missed her so much.. I can say I love her.. I feel like I do.. 

Nonetheless we met up and spoke. It was hard. She felt like I abandoned her when she broke her foot.. To me I wasn't looking at it that way.. I was looking at all the other things that were going on in our relationship. 

But to her she felt I abandoned her when she needed me the most.. 
nside I melted.. She looked so fvcking beautiful to me.. 

She expressed how much pain she was in.. How she had a hard time moving on herself.. That was of course good to hear..

We will talk more tonight. 

I'm still stressed out.. But I feel much better than I did 2 days ago..

I started using the Couch to 5k app on my iphone. I enjoy running/walking so far it helps me relax.. Its only been my first week. But I am going to continue it and will join a gym to run in the cold months.. 

I lost 15 lbs from stress from 4th of July to now.. I'm down to 230 and I know I will go down to at least 225..

The therapist was concerned and I understood completely.. I really do understand the issues and ramifications of all of this. I'm trying to figure it out as well and try to fix this between us some how to come to an understanding where we can communicate better.. I realize I need to also let things slide and understand that some of this nonsense is just who she is.. Again that is what I am striving for.. 

I'm hoping that with a mix of both we can come to some common understanding between us..

I don't know.. I really don't.. I'm 48 and I just don't have all the answers..


----------



## karole

HTH, when are you going to get off the merry-go-round?


----------



## Hardtohandle

karole said:


> HTH, when are you going to get off the merry-go-round?


I don't know.. 

I don't get it.. 

We both are saying the same things.. I let her talk and she expressed the same wants as me. Just some where we are losing the true communication.. 

The point where its, I am saying this, do you understand what I am saying and what it means.. 

To protect myself and better myself I am going to learn to do things on my own.. EG running and exercise.. 

At the same time we did discuss to take this slow, with no kids and weekends only.. So lets see.. 

I don't get how 2 people could want the same things and feel the same for another but we lose something in translation along the way..


----------



## karole

I'll repeat what I and several other posters have said throughout your thread, you need to learn to be happy by yourself and steer clear of relationships altogether for a while. You should get some counseling to find out why you want to continue in an obviously dysfunctional relationship that you know in your heart of hearts is never going to work out. 

Everyone wants to see you happy and in a fulfilling relationship, but this GF is obviously not going to provide you with that. You won't give yourself enough time away from her to get over her. Take some time off from dating and relationships and just enjoy your new job and your boys. Seek counseling and work on your co-dependency issues.


----------



## Hardtohandle

karole said:


> I'll repeat what I and several other posters have said throughout your thread, you need to learn to be happy by yourself and steer clear of relationships altogether for a while. You should get some counseling to find out why you want to continue in an obviously dysfunctional relationship that you know in your heart of hearts is never going to work out.
> 
> Everyone wants to see you happy and in a fulfilling relationship, but this GF is obviously not going to provide you with that. You won't give yourself enough time away from her to get over her. Take some time off from dating and relationships and just enjoy your new job and your boys. Seek counseling and work on your co-dependency issues.


I understand.. 

I know I love her, because I could have dated other women.. But I just couldn't.. I couldn't even meet them.. I just cancelled politely and told them I just wasn't ready to meet anyone..


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/11/15 Tuesday

Okay.. Here we go.. 

Thursday is family court.. I am hoping I can convince the judge to impute a better CS number on the EX wife.. I hope I don't have to keep going to court over this stuff as it's been over a year..

The EXGF/GF issues..

This gets strange.. 

We met.. We talked.. We are slowly back on again.. 

We spoke about the past and the issues.. For whatever reason, whether she grasped it or just accepted it or whatever you want to call it.. 

She finally understood what the issues where and what was going on in my head.. It seems the emails we were exchanging opened her eyes to some things and made her question some things she was doing or how I understood them.. 

She apologized and said she was wrong.. I was shocked.. 

I've been told this several times and I have to agree with this.. I love the drama.. I need a conflict or an issue.. She told me this.. My friends told me this.. 

A bit of backstory on something..

The previous ex gf called me last week sometime and started off the conversation that she had breast cancer and how it changed her perspective on life and such.. I was polite because I am not an animal and I felt for her having a double mastectomy. She gave me congrats on the new job and such.. She made a comment of *"If I ever needed to talk or meet and talk, or get together for drinks etc AS FRIENDS, that I could reach out to her"*.. I made it vague and said sure I will call you and we can figure it out.. End of call.. 

Saturday night was our *FIRST TIME* going out since we broke up.. Midnight comes and we just left a comedy club and she said lets go dance.. I said sure I enjoy it.. 

I get a text message, I can't see it with no glasses.. I don't know the number so I ask the her to read it.. BIG FVCKING MISTAKE...

It was the other exgf going on how I asked her out to dinner at a mexican restaurant and never called her at the end of the week.. 

The GF snapped.. She freaked the fvck out.. I could see her shaking.. I could see it was as if she just caught me cheating.. Being through that scenario myself I could see.. 

Later on she told me if she had a knife, she would have stabbed me in the face.. Which I could understand honestly..

Well as I fought for my life relationship wise.. We went back to her place and she let me stay *( knew it wasn't that bad if she was letting me stay regardless of how mad and upset she was ) *

We talked about it more the next day when she was calm and realized I should have just told this woman no or shut her down some how.. I agree that I left it open ended and she thought up her own sh!t after that.. I never said we would go out and I was certainly not so specific to go to a mexican restaurant.. I haven't spoken to this woman for 2 years and now I'm gonna be that specific ?

Fortunately I spoke to my friend that knows her well and was the one who told her I was retiring.. I called him immediately after she called and told him how I was vague to blow her off.. He agreed and told me to stay away from her as she was more nuts than before.. 

Well as luck would have it, he calls me on his way to work on sunday.. The GF knows who he is and knows he knows her.. So she tells me to answer the phone and to talk to him.. 

I told him what transpired and he asked if I was with the GF.. I said yes and he asked to talk to her.. She did.. He pretty much echoed everything I told her and saved my a$$.. 

How lucky I was that he called and spoke to her..


----------



## turnera

And...you're still willing to date a woman who says she would have stabbed you in the face?


----------



## MattMatt

Hardtohandle said:


> 08/06/15 Thursday
> 
> Filed for Retirement, though I am still here 30 days more. Working on closing out cases and sorting all the financials out..
> 
> Retiring and getting this new job felt like a hollow victory.. It felt like having a fight with a 10 year old kid and getting an award for it..
> 
> I reached out to the ExGF.. I know it's all crazy.. I just missed her so much.. I can say I love her.. I feel like I do..
> 
> Nonetheless we met up and spoke. It was hard. She felt like I abandoned her when she broke her foot.. To me I wasn't looking at it that way.. I was looking at all the other things that were going on in our relationship.
> 
> But to her she felt I abandoned her when she needed me the most..
> nside I melted.. She looked so fvcking beautiful to me..
> 
> She expressed how much pain she was in.. How she had a hard time moving on herself.. That was of course good to hear..
> 
> We will talk more tonight.
> 
> I'm still stressed out.. But I feel much better than I did 2 days ago..
> 
> I started using the Couch to 5k app on my iphone. I enjoy running/walking so far it helps me relax.. Its only been my first week. But I am going to continue it and will join a gym to run in the cold months..
> 
> I lost 15 lbs from stress from 4th of July to now.. I'm down to 230 and I know I will go down to at least 225..
> 
> The therapist was concerned and I understood completely.. I really do understand the issues and ramifications of all of this. I'm trying to figure it out as well and try to fix this between us some how to come to an understanding where we can communicate better.. I realize I need to also let things slide and understand that some of this nonsense is just who she is.. Again that is what I am striving for..
> 
> I'm hoping that with a mix of both we can come to some common understanding between us..
> 
> I don't know.. I really don't.. I'm 48 and I just don't have all the answers..


*Before you get heavily into gym work, get checked out by a doctor.*

A friend of mine recently (thin, looked fit as a fiddle) took up the gym. 

After a month of workouts he sat in his car to come home, a chunk of arterial plaque broke off and he died within seconds.


----------



## poida

Wow I can't believe I am saying this (a bit rich coming from me) but you need to be by yourself and to have regular counselling to understand yourself better.

10 simple steps mate;
1. Regular counselling
2. regular exercise
3. new hobby
4. re-connect with family
5. re-connect with mates
6. make new friends (join a club and get involved)
7. Get plenty of sleep and eat well. 
8. Consider giving up booze permanently
9. Holiday by yourself (surf camp?)
10. Read a lot about how to love yourself.

It's not much more complicated than that.

It's taken me a year and a half to get my **** together and start to understand, love and respect myself. If I had done these steps and not got involved with a woman, I would be 6 months further ahead.

Go on, get cracking.

Women are a distraction for at least the first year. Forget about them.


----------



## Openminded

I doubt anyone who has followed your saga with her is surprised you can't stay away from her. You're in love with the way she looks and the endless drama. Her looks may fade but the drama definitely won't.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> And...you're still willing to date a woman who says she would have stabbed you in the face?


Its sort of like saying I can kill you.. I didn't take it literally, just frustration..


----------



## Hardtohandle

Openminded said:


> I doubt anyone who has followed your saga with her is surprised you can't stay away from her. You're in love with the way she looks and the endless drama. Her looks may fade but the drama definitely won't.


I think I am creating my own drama as well.


----------



## Openminded

Indeed you are.


----------



## Openminded

Perhaps part of your addiction to her is the "passion" (i.e. "craziness") and the adrenalin rush that brings. Could be at least part of the reason why your occupation was what it was. 

It's your life and you have to live it. Our part is just to watch it derail on a regular basis (and hope one day you find someone who's actually good for you but my feeling there is you will always seek out someone like her because she makes you feel "alive").


----------



## Hardtohandle

Openminded said:


> Perhaps part of your addiction to her is the "passion" (i.e. "craziness") and the adrenalin rush that brings. Could be at least part of the reason why your occupation was what it was.
> 
> It's your life and you have to live it. Our part is just to watch it derail on a regular basis (and hope one day you find someone who's actually good for you but my feeling there is you will always seek out someone like her because she makes you feel "alive").


I've been reading some stuff.

In a nutshell I think I make myself the victim so that I can cause her grief.. 

Something I need to address with the therapist.. 

I could have dated.. I had dates I just refused to meet them..


----------



## turnera

Awareness is the first step toward growth.


----------



## Hardtohandle

turnera said:


> Awareness is the first step toward growth.


Therapist talked about cognitive thinking.. 

We talked about fantasizing about the past and future.. I do a lot of mind movies and what if's.. 

We talked about me talking about something trying to prevent something from happening instead of just seeing what happens.. 

E.G. The guy friend issues I have.. I wanted to lay down rules about it, but as many here know as does my therapist.. We laid down those ground rules long ago.. She knows them.. So why bring up something if nothing happen yet.. 

Basically if it happens.. Then bring it up address it and move on and stop harping on the past.. Which is what I do.. 

My issue is I love to give speeches.. Many friends say to me, why say a sentence when a paragraph will do.. 

My ex wife in the end complained about it.. Again it must have been something she was tired of as well but never said anything until the very end when it was over.. 

My new mantra for this relationship is *"I want this"*.. This is what we decided I should say to myself when I am looking to run away or get fed up..

Look, lets see how it goes.. 

If I learn something out of this and can pass it along to someone else here.. Then maybe someone can make some short cuts and not do the mistakes I did.. Maybe this can server to point someone to when others are reading and say *"Hey, this guy HTH had similar issues. This is how he overcame them or dealt with them in his life." *

Or failed and this is why..

Other side notes..

Today was NOT my court date.. I was reviewing my papers and noticed it was the 14th and not the 13th.. So its tomorrow.. 

I started running.. Its my second week.. I started doing couch to 5k.. Which is every other day, 3 days a week.. 

On the alternate days I don't run I started this app for doing 100 push ups.. First week seems easy.. 

The GF is saying all the right things so far.. 

Again lets see how it goes right ?

I wish this sh!t was cut and dry and easy.. But it's not..


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/14/15 Friday

Went to family court.. 

She had no lawyer.. 

In the end I requested the judge impute some sort of money against her.. The judge asked if it was the dental hygienists or the board of ed.. I know the Dental Hygienist is more money so I said the dental job.. But I also commented I don't want her living out of a box the rest of her life trying to pay me child support.. All I am asking is to be fair about this..

The ex tried to imply I was well off because I was taking the kids to disney and my 10 year old has a iphone.. I was able to explain to the judge why my 10 year old has the phone is due to the ex wife preventing me from speaking to him..

The ex knew she was fvcked.. The judge said I will get my decision in the mail..

Lets see what happens.


----------



## just got it 55

HTH just checking in Did you start the new gig yet?

55


----------



## Hardtohandle

just got it 55 said:


> HTH just checking in Did you start the new gig yet?
> 
> 55


Sept 2nd I am officially retired and Sept 21st I start the new place.. 

Okay after getting yelled or chastised by my therapist about not listening.. I began to listen.. 

The simple crux was her talking about other men and me complaining and trying to change her failed.. I would then make myself the victim and then use it to beat her up all the time.. 


This weekend I did something different.. 

We pretty much spent the whole weekend together.. It was a great weekend and we didn't do much of anything but stay in bed for the most part.. 

But here it comes and I will tell you what I did.. It worked like a fvcking charm.. It was amazing.. 

I can tell you, she would literally telling me all the time how perfect she was and how she was the best GF I could have and ETC, ETC, ETC... 

That tune changed this weekend to her beating herself up.. I'm sorry, I don't what is wrong with me.. I have a problem.. I just don't know how to shut up.. 

This is what I did to reverse this whole fvcking thing.. 

The minute she would mention a guy she dated or something about a moment during the date.. I would just ask her a million questions about the date.. Where did you guys go.. How long where you out.. What did you eat.. Did he try to kiss you.. Was he a good kisser..

The very first time I did this she did not catch on until a few questions in.. But then she realized she was feeling uncomfortable talking about it and didn't want to tell me anymore.. 

I would just say, no tell me about this date with this guy.. It seems you want to tell me about it so come on, answer the questions.. 

Then she would beat herself up and feel bad.. I would just play it off as it was cool. I wouldn't yell, snap.. Nothing.. 

I just keep pushing her to tell me more.. 

She did it a few times during the weekend and I would immediately attack with questions.. After the first incident any subsequent incident she was quick to apologize and beat herself up after me asking the first question.. 

But the great thing was I would tell her.. No babe, your the best GF around.. You are perfect.. You're doing nothing wrong.. You just want to tell me about your date.. 

Never once did I bring up anyone or anything about myself.. 

She felt like sh!t.. 

I was also able to read some text messages on FB because she wanted to see my Facebook.. 

So I read some of these message from these guy friends out loud and she immediately asked me to stop.. I asked her why ? 

She says I'm embarrassed and I can see how foolish it sounds when you are reading it.. 

Again it was nothing bad or dirty. But of course it was the terms Sexy and a bunch of xoxoxo from a guy friend.. 

Again playing it utterly cool I said I would love to his GF facebook friend.. It seems he is very friendly, I can only imagine how is GF must be.. She must be pretty cool knowing he is so friendly with you like this.. 

Mind you again we were NOT dating during the times of these messages..

But for some reason NOW this break up and make up changed something inside her.. 

Again she was apologetic for it and stated she would correct this situation.. 

I told her flat out, you can be friends but if he is going to talk to you like this, than I am going to talk to his GF like this as well.. 

I told her I cannot blame him for what he says.. I am NOT in a relationship with him.. But you, well. That is a different story.. 

IF you find this acceptable that is great.. But you cannot stop me from talking to someone else the same way.. 

She immediately began back peddling.. 

When we did talk seriously.. I just basically told her, you have poor relationship boundaries and you do not clearly understand how to maintain a serious relationship.. You need to grow up a bit when it comes to this.. 

She couldn't fight back.. Mind you she tried, but the minute I said I would act the same way.. She didn't like it and backed down..

But the biggest thing was I was calm cool and collected.. I went on moments later like it never happened.. It drove her nuts because she felt even more like sh!t because I was being so cool about it and she felt she was being so sh!tty with me.. 

Just funny how now she realizes how not so perfect she is..


----------



## farsidejunky

They really are just sh!t tests, H2H.

Now you know how to pass them.


----------



## turnera

Do you know what the real difference was? You took the emotion out of it. She sensed that you weren't desperate to save the relationship, that you would walk away. You instantly became someone worth respecting and earning.


----------



## Hardtohandle

farsidejunky said:


> They really are just sh!t tests, H2H.
> 
> Now you know how to pass them.


I just didn't get it.. 

Like Turnera said.. Once I took the emotions out of it.. It just lost its validity.. 

When I started reading out loud her FB messages from these* "guy friends"* only then did she realize how stupid it sounds.. 

When I told her, man I don't get why this guy has such an issue with his GF.. She seems pretty cool since she so okay with him talking to you like this.. I really have to meet this girl.. 

I am sure going to add her to my FB friends.. She must be pretty fun to talk to and hang out with.. 

She immediately said she would correct this situation.. 
I asked her what's the problem.. 
She said now that I hear you reading it, I can see how stupid it is and I shouldn't be getting those types of messages and I know it's not right.
I said wow, I'm shocked that you're actually getting it..

Again this is just something I did not expect from her and I am taken back.. 

It just seems like she really, really, really has a vested interest in this relationship now.. Like she is afraid of losing it as well. 

Again I cannot explain it. I just see the difference.. I feel the difference..


----------



## farsidejunky

Just keep at it, H2H.

I am not convinced that someone who has spent a lifetime doing said things will have an epiphany simply because you read messages aloud and said you would do the same with OSF's.


----------



## turnera

No, he'll have to continue to show his backbone - and be willing to walk. There's no place for unconditional love in a relationship.


----------



## farsidejunky

I agree, T, but that was not what I was saying.

I was curious if her actions were going to match her words.


----------



## Row Jimmy

My money was on you getting back with this woman, but I was hoping you would take the time to figure out how to be okay in your own skin and not NEED the company of a woman to feel okay within yourself.

It's good to see that you are working on establishing better boundaries with her male friends AGAIN and also shutting her down when bragging about her old boyfriends and such but won't she still be the lazy woman who won't get out of bed to take her kid places which seemed to be a deal breaker for you in a not so long ago drama situation some pages back?

Do whatever makes you happy H2H... but I suggest you move slowly and keep it as dating and NOT aimed hard towards moving in together and keep it that way for the next couple years until you become more stable and less needy because you don't need to hurt her kids by letting them get overly attached to you with your extremely unstable adult drama that continually plays on and on in the background of all the wonderful sex you two are enjoying. 

The sex and attraction part is easy and soothes a lot of emotional wounds. The hard part is dealing with the rest of the crap that bringing two families together always seems to generate. 

There is no rush to jump into that frying pan.


----------



## just got it 55

farsidejunky said:


> They really are just sh!t tests, H2H.
> 
> Now you know how to pass them.


Yup I was just about to reply like this and scrolled down to your post and beat me to it

Carry on HTH

55


----------



## Hardtohandle

Row Jimmy said:


> won't she still be the lazy woman who won't get out of bed to take her kid places which seemed to be a deal breaker for you in a not so long ago drama situation some pages back?


Oddly enough she has been talking about it herself. About getting her daughter to bed early for school and such.. This is totally without me asking.. 

Right now she has an issue because she is actually working from 5pm to 10pm at her own home with other children.. So in her defense she is sort of screwed because she needs the work to pay her bills but also knows it really, really late to be working and especially when she has 2 kids of her own at home.. Mind you this is an apartment and the youngest is 4 years old.. Mind you she also works from 10 AM to Noon.. So with a broken foot she is still working.. I cannot take this away from her.. She doesn't work she doesn't get paid..

So I have to give her credit, where credit is due.. Broken foot and she is doing special ed from home with other parents and their kids..

She actually said she was going to speak to the teacher in school when it starts to explain the situation and let them know if her child is tired in school for the first month, that this is the reason why.. Which I thought made good sense. 

She didn't want to get called out or chastised by the teacher because her work schedule is all crazy because of her broken foot and her daughter is falling asleep in school.

For some reason she feels the need to tell me the truth.. She bought a new phone and got a new cellular service so she could block calls, which her old phone could not do.. She did it because she didn't want to get odd calls while we were together.. Her line was she was doing this to protect us and not to see me get upset.. 

Again I don't know.. All I can say she had these problems in past relationships.. Maybe FINALLY she caught the hint.. Again I honestly don't know.. 

Right now she is saying and doing all the right things to protect this relationship.. Yea she does slip up but I just do what I do now and she gets it immediately and apologizes.. 

Right now we only pretty much see each other on weekends. 
Friday night from 11 PM until Sunday afternoon sometime.. During the week I might see her for a few minutes here and there.. 

I'm just not trying to over think it and going with the flow..

Tomorrow I go to Disney with my 2 boys and see the grandparents as well from my Ex wife side.. 

So I won't even see her this weekend, which I will be honest is a bummer not seeing her.. But I'm a big boy ( sometimes ) and get it.. I will be having fun with my 2 boys and they need it..


----------



## turnera

It's possible she's finally growing up. Most women do, eventually. But lazy is not just an attitude - it's part of who you are. I know, I watch it in my DD24 every day. So is flirting, needing attention. Those kinds of things don't just turn off. She needs some sort of mentor or therapy or guidance to LEARN what fully functioning, responsible adults with integrity do. She reminds me of me and my friends when we were 16. Somehow, nobody ever taught her what the adult version looks like.


----------



## Hardtohandle

08/28/15 Friday

Still waiting on Judge's decision in mail regarding the child support issue.. Not gonna go nuts with it if it doesn't change.. I tried and it's been a year.. 

Okay.. Here is the deal.. I am trying to figure out how to handle this issue of mine..

As anyone who has followed my drama, Me and the GF broke up for a month.. During that month she decided to paint me as a monster to the point that some people actually thought I BROKE HER FOOT and she was abused and just covering for me..

Well as now we are back together some of those people sort of do not want anything to do with me.. Now I never met some of these people, but 2 of them a husband and wife go to a swimming pool in which my GF owns a co-op that she rents out.. Its a very large pool for the building.. 

The issue is she asked me to come along with her kids and I wouldn't mind and love her kids, but I am not going to lie that I am not comfortable the way I look without my shirt on in public.. Also the GF told me that this woman would leave if she saw me at the pool.. 

In my head, I could see her later on commenting about my un-shirt appearance to my GF and ridiculing me in some way.. 

Again something along the lines of He might be cute guy but look at his body, you can do much better.. Again I don't know.. Its my head running along with this..

I expressed that to my GF.. And I told her why do I need to go to a place where this woman will have more ammo against me.. All it is going to do is piss me off.. I don't know her.. I don't care to know her and I don't care to feel uncomfortable.. It just isn't worth it for me..

The GF clear problem is she wants to tell me everything and has no filter.. I told her she didn't need to tell me and it was her fault I feel this way about this person now..

So am I just being kunty.. Should I go ? Not many pool days lefts honestly.. 

I'm a bit annoyed at her because she of course painted me like a bad guy and now the her nanny doesn't like me.. Again I don't care, but I also don't like playing fake game of being polite either.. But I know if I say anything it would cause her issues with the nanny.. Deep down I know she needs her and don't want to be the issue of them fighting, thus causing us to fight..

But this is annoying because I got into my own fight with my brother over my GF and even my mom had some small comments.. But my mom was smart enough to just chill because she knows I do everything around here.. 

But my brother is just a nasty d0uche.. 

But I also didn't tell the GF either that we fought over her.. As a matter of fact he was suppose to take me to the airport and pick me up and instead he didn't and it cost me 100 dollars total round trip because of it.. 

But she feels its okay to babble all this sh!t to me.. 

I'm not happy with it to say the least..

But I am trying to just let this go because it is bullsh!t nonsense.. And part of me knows she looks like the bigger fool for taking me back in these other peoples eyes..


----------



## turnera

Why the HELL are you still dating this woman?

There are BILLIONS of women in the world.


----------



## bfree

First of all HTH, why do you care what someone else thinks of you, especially someone who you really don't know and have no ties to? Second, I assume your GF has seen you naked. She's still with you so obviously she's not turned off by your looks. If this woman did say something is your GF that easily manipulated? Honestly this all sounds like a very bad case of insecurity to me and the that is a lot more unattractive than you with your shirt off.

ETA: If this woman's opinion of you is tainted by lies your GF spread isn't it your GF's job to come clean and set the record straight?


----------



## Openminded

She's not ever going to change. She will continue to lie to people so she looks good and you don't. That's who she is. But you are apparently determined to be with her so get used to those antics -- there will be many of them in your future. 

And, no, she doesn't look like the bigger fool (I'm sure she's spinning a new web of lies to her friends -- she excels at that). But you obviously need the drama she brings or you would have stayed away from her this time. The question is can you find a way to deal with the bad she brings to the relationship because it will never stop.

PS
It's obvious that she likes very much making you uncomfortable.


----------



## just got it 55

bfree said:


> First of all HTH, why do you care what someone else thinks of you, especially someone who you really don't know and have no ties to? Second, I assume your GF has seen you naked. She's still with you so obviously she's not turned off by your looks. If this woman did say something is your GF that easily manipulated? Honestly this all sounds like a very bad case of insecurity to me and the that is a lot more unattractive than you with your shirt off.
> 
> ETA: If this woman's opinion of you is tainted by lies your GF spread isn't it your GF's job to come clean and set the record straight?


HTH why would you spend another minute with this woman if she doesn't come clean ?

If she doesn't come to that realization on her own that speaks volumes

Fair question No ?

Pay for a relationship with your character is a cost no person should pay that price is not only too high it shows a flaw not befitting a man of your integrity

ETA:

HTH are you really willing to sacrifice your honor and character for this woman/relationship

again fair question 

55


----------



## barbados

Hardtohandle said:


> 08/28/15 Friday
> 
> 
> As anyone who has followed my drama, Me and the GF broke up for a month.. *During that month she decided to paint me as a monster to the point that some people actually thought I BROKE HER FOOT and she was abused and just covering for me..*


And you are back with this crazy woman exactly why ?


----------



## Hardtohandle

barbados said:


> And you are back with this crazy woman exactly why ?


Sorry... My bad..

She didn't say I broke her foot.. 

But You know how some people are.. They just assumed I abused her some way and thought she was covering up for me.. 

Basically I'm the bad guy that left her when she needed me the most.. Basically I failed everyones sh!t test here.. 

No one would grasp the other issues unless they followed along on this thread.. If I tried to tell this story in one sitting I would sound nuts to anyone.. 

Look I don't blame her.. 

I left and she was pissed and broken hearted herself.. I can't hold a grudge against her.. I totally grasp what was going on..

I'm just trying to figure out what the most adult thing here is to do for me ? 

You ( everyone ) needs to understand I am by nature confrontational. I am not the guy you tell in confidence that someone thinks I am a d!ck, because I will go up to that person and call them right out on it.. I am NOT a big fan of putting on a fake face for someone unless I really have to.. EG be nice to a pedofile or a rapist to get a confession.. 

I told the GF I wouldn't go to the pool with her because I would call them out and all it would do is make *me and her* get into a fight, which is not what I want to do..

Some people are just really stupid and ignorant and these sort of people fit the bill..


----------



## Hardtohandle

bfree said:


> First of all HTH, why do you care what someone else thinks of you, especially someone who you really don't know and have no ties to? Second, I assume your GF has seen you naked. She's still with you so obviously she's not turned off by your looks. If this woman did say something is your GF that easily manipulated? Honestly this all sounds like a very bad case of insecurity to me and the that is a lot more unattractive than you with your shirt off.
> 
> ETA: If this woman's opinion of you is tainted by lies your GF spread isn't it your GF's job to come clean and set the record straight?





Openminded said:


> She's not ever going to change. She will continue to lie to people so she looks good and you don't. That's who she is. But you are apparently determined to be with her so get used to those antics -- there will be many of them in your future.
> 
> And, no, she doesn't look like the bigger fool (I'm sure she's spinning a new web of lies to her friends -- she excels at that). But you obviously need the drama she brings or you would have stayed away from her this time. The question is can you find a way to deal with the bad she brings to the relationship because it will never stop.
> 
> PS
> It's obvious that she likes very much making you uncomfortable.





just got it 55 said:


> HTH why would you spend another minute with this woman if she doesn't come clean ?
> 
> If she doesn't come to that realization on her own that speaks volumes
> 
> Fair question No ?
> 
> Pay for a relationship with your character is a cost no person should pay that price is not only too high it shows a flaw not befitting a man of your integrity
> 
> ETA:
> 
> HTH are you really willing to sacrifice your honor and character for this woman/relationship
> 
> again fair question
> 
> 55


Okay this is my fault and I'm sorry.. Something got lost in translation.. 

She never told anyone but what she felt.. Which is basically I left her with a broken foot.. She needed me and I left her.. That is how she see's it or seen it.. 

I explained to her why I left or broke it off.. Her simple comment is why didn't I leave sooner then and NOT when she had a broken foot.. 

Again I can see what she is saying.. I get it.. In the grand scheme of things it is a useless battle to fight.. 

She see it her way and I see it my way.. 

You are absolutely correct.. She loves me with or without a shirt.. I'm not gonna lie I never took off my shirt for the 20 years I was with the Ex wife.. I was very insecure about it then and I was much heavier.. 

But the GF does keep telling me that I look great without a shirt and many other men look bad and still go without shirts.. They don't care and look worse, why should I care.. 

So she does back me up and completely support me in the shirtless department.. 

I do think part of my issues are insecurities.. I do not like to give up my weaknesses.. 

As a younger man I had an issue and insecurities about it and nearly put someone in the hospital over it and it was a fellow co worker and cop.. Many people were surprised how angry I got and how aggressive I got.. Because I am not like that at all.. I'm usually a timid, goofy guy.. So to see me go from 0 to 100 in seconds on the rage meter was a shocker.. 

Even the GF has told me she gets scared when I get into a rage and honestly she is not the only person to tell me that.. 

So its an issue I have and I am trying really hard to control it.. I know going into a rage does not make me look well at all in her eyes.. 

So again I understand how she feels and why she does.. I understand why she said what she said.. I can't hold a grudge against her for doing it.. She knows as well she looks dumb for complaining about what I did and then taking me back.. I think that is what bothers her the most.. 

She does not like to look foolish.. 
I get it.. Who does ?

So if I cleared the air on this.. My issue is what is the proper adult thing to do here ?

I expressed to her why I don't want to go.. She assures me they will just fake a smile and be polite since they don't have the courage to say anything to me.. 

Again I don't the fake bullsh!t.. 

But I can play the game I guess.. Just my mentality is call people out on their bullsh!t.. At least now a days it is..


----------



## Hardtohandle

After reading the first few pages of this thread

Talk About Marriage - Reply to Topic

I started thinking that my relationship skills might be off the mark.

I have to say I have called my GF much worse during arguments with her and I mean much worse.. I have called her the one word EVERY WOMAN HATES.. 

I can get really nasty.. 

She has commented about how nasty I get and such.. 

I am thinking that maybe I might not know how to act in a relationship sometimes ? 

Maybe I cross the line in anger ?


----------



## karole

You need lots of counseling HTH. You' ve been told that numerous times in this thread. You apparently love the drama. Don't know anything anyone could say to help you anymore. You've ignored all the advice given to you. You are going to stay with your wacko girlfriend so just face it and endure what she dishes out because you apparently enjoy it. Best of luck to you - you are gonna need it I'm afraid


----------



## turnera

Hardtohandle said:


> After reading the first few pages of this thread
> 
> Talk About Marriage - Reply to Topic
> 
> I started thinking that my relationship skills might be off the mark.
> 
> I have to say I have called my GF much worse during arguments with her and I mean much worse.. I have called her the one word EVERY WOMAN HATES..
> 
> I can get really nasty..
> 
> She has commented about how nasty I get and such..
> 
> I am thinking that maybe I might not know how to act in a relationship sometimes ?
> 
> Maybe I cross the line in anger ?


Maybe you should have done what I'm sure many have urged you to do - BE ALONE and learn to be OK with being alone before you try dating anyone again.

You are in no condition to be anyone's partner.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Wow. I don't understand why you are with this GF.

Remember the 3 rules of life by Nelson Algren: "Never play cards with a man called Doc. Never eat at a place called Mom's. Never sleep with a woman whose problems are worse than your own."

I know it sounds flippant, but think about that last bit of advice. I think that men sometimes get a "white knight" complex and think they are going to save some woman in distress. It typically doesn't work out.
The guy is instead dragged into a cycle of ever-worsening drama. Sounds to me like you could be there.

So, although it was written as a line in a fictional work, there's actually a lot of truth in that advice.


----------



## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> . . . As a younger man I had an issue and insecurities about it and nearly put someone in the hospital over it and it was a fellow co worker and cop.. Many people were surprised how angry I got and how aggressive I got.. Because I am not like that at all.. I'm usually a timid, goofy guy.. So to see me go from 0 to 100 in seconds on the rage meter was a shocker..
> 
> Even the GF has told me she gets scared when I get into a rage and honestly she is not the only person to tell me that..
> 
> So its an issue I have and I am trying really hard to control it.. I know going into a rage does not make me look well at all in her eyes . . .





Hardtohandle said:


> After reading the first few pages of this thread
> 
> Talk About Marriage - Reply to Topic
> 
> *I started thinking that my relationship skills might be off the mark.*
> 
> I have to say I have called my GF much worse during arguments with her and I mean much worse.. I have called her the one word EVERY WOMAN HATES..
> 
> I can get really nasty..
> 
> She has commented about how nasty I get and such..
> 
> *I am thinking that maybe I might not know how to act in a relationship sometimes ? *
> 
> Maybe I cross the line in anger ?


HTH,

You're just _"starting"_ to think this?

You've mentioned before that you sometimes frighten people. You seem not to appreciate that this is not normal behavior. Take my word for it: mature, responsible, mentally balanced adults do not go around scaring people.

As many others have told you, HTH, you need professional help. I hope someday you see this and go out and get it.

I hope you do it soon.


----------



## Hardtohandle

09/10/15 Thursday

My court date came and went. I went in stated my case and waited for the Magistrate's decision in the mail. 

End result the judge agreed with me and imputed a settlement against my Ex wife. She went from paying me 200 a month to 1300 a month. As much as I know she is only working 10 hours a week and I know she should be working more. Part of me still feels bad. I know regardless it's a big nut to swallow to pay 1300 a month, though I know others are paying much more than that.. 

Been working on my anger/rage. There are moments I am good and catch it ASAP, then there are times I start to slip and catch it and then there are times I'm into the moment and THEN catch it. I am working on NOT getting into the moment.

Another stupid thing is I am letting phrases and wording hold me hostage. 

One dumb phrase was *"You don't want to know the truth"*

Which is what my GF *USED* to say. 

Finally it just dawned on me. I told her I do want to know the truth.. But remember you spoke to me about your past.. You told me EVERYTHING..

I then go on to reiterate some of her stories/lines.. I then tell her if you deviate from these stories EVER we are done.. You are done using that line on me.. You painted yourself in a corner you cannot get out of unless you want to end this relationship and if you do tell me something different then what I already know it clearly means you want to end this relationship so it doesn't matter in the end.. 

At that moment I instantly chilled and had a smile on my face.. Sadly she just didn't get it.. 

What annoyed me is I let that line control me. It was as if she did have some dark deep secret ( and she might ). But now I made her know that she has to go with it to the grave or lose this relationship.. 

But I just didn't care anymore. But it is so stupid how a phrase can hold you.. So I have been looking at other things that way as well. I have been trying to identify things in my life or this relationship like this. 

Otherwise we are okay.. The most annoying thing for me is just some of the backlash from when we broke up.. A few guys still tried to contact her. But she told me about. She bought and new phone and a new carrier to block numbers and such.. So I have to give her credit, she spent 500 dollars just to be able to block calls and text to protect the relationship. I even felt bad and offered to give her half and she refused.. She said it was her problem and issues and she would fix it. 

I think that she is just very dumb when it comes to relationships and I am just too stupid as well and get hooked sometimes and I end up flying off the handle. I'm dumb in the sense I don't see the stupidity behind some of this stuff and I just fall for it hook line and sinker.. Then I explode.. Which serves ME no purpose.. In the end I lose.. 

Perfect example of her stupidity.. 

She clearing out her facebook history so if I happen to look, I will not see things from when we were broken up as she doesn't want to see me upset or hurt about her talking or whatever to some other men. 

While doing so she realizes that her STBXH GF and a guy she had a date with happen to know each other.. She then spends hours trying to figure out the conspiracy.

Of course she then proceeds to tell me and I just get annoyed that she spent hours looking at some guy she dated facebook pics.. 

But to her she is trying to find the connection.. That maybe they set him up to go out with her for some reason... 

I told her she was crazy and that she couldn't even formulate the plot behind it.. 

Once I let it go, I laughed about it.. But at first I just fell into it. I was just annoyed thinking that she was looking at this guys pics and telling me about it.. Mind you this guy wanted to get me jammed up with my job as well.. So I really don't like this guy because he really, really, really could have screwed me over with my old job.. Again I was fortunate that the GF didn't take his advice and she told me she knew, how screwed I would be if she did.. 

Once she said to me you're not listening to me, I don't care about the pics... I am wondering if you can figure out where the setup is.. That is when I laughed, that her mind was about some crazy conspiracy against her.. Of course she eventually realized it was dumb as well.


----------



## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> 09/10/15 Thursday
> 
> My court date came and went. I went in stated my case and waited for the Magistrate's decision in the mail.
> 
> End result the judge agreed with me and imputed a settlement against my Ex wife. She went from paying me 200 a month to 1300 a month. As much as I know she is only working 10 hours a week and I know she should be working more. Part of me still feels bad. I know regardless it's a big nut to swallow to pay 1300 a month, though I know others are paying much more than that..
> 
> Been working on my anger/rage. There are moments I am good and catch it ASAP, then there are times I start to slip and catch it and then there are times I'm into the moment and THEN catch it. I am working on NOT getting into the moment.
> 
> Another stupid thing is I am letting phrases and wording hold me hostage.
> 
> One dumb phrase was *"You don't want to know the truth"*
> 
> Which is what my GF *USED* to say.
> 
> Finally it just dawned on me. I told her I do want to know the truth.. But remember you spoke to me about your past.. You told me EVERYTHING..
> 
> I then go on to reiterate some of her stories/lines.. I then tell her if you deviate from these stories EVER we are done.. You are done using that line on me.. You painted yourself in a corner you cannot get out of unless you want to end this relationship and if you do tell me something different then what I already know it clearly means you want to end this relationship so it doesn't matter in the end..
> 
> At that moment I instantly chilled and had a smile on my face.. Sadly she just didn't get it..
> 
> What annoyed me is I let that line control me. It was as if she did have some dark deep secret ( and she might ). But now I made her know that she has to go with it to the grave or lose this relationship..
> 
> But I just didn't care anymore. But it is so stupid how a phrase can hold you.. So I have been looking at other things that way as well. I have been trying to identify things in my life or this relationship like this.
> 
> Otherwise we are okay.. The most annoying thing for me is just some of the backlash from when we broke up.. A few guys still tried to contact her. But she told me about. She bought and new phone and a new carrier to block numbers and such.. So I have to give her credit, she spent 500 dollars just to be able to block calls and text to protect the relationship. I even felt bad and offered to give her half and she refused.. She said it was her problem and issues and she would fix it.
> 
> I think that she is just very dumb when it comes to relationships and I am just too stupid as well and get hooked sometimes and I end up flying off the handle. I'm dumb in the sense I don't see the stupidity behind some of this stuff and I just fall for it hook line and sinker.. Then I explode.. Which serves ME no purpose.. In the end I lose..
> 
> Perfect example of her stupidity..
> 
> She clearing out her facebook history so if I happen to look, I will not see things from when we were broken up as she doesn't want to see me upset or hurt about her talking or whatever to some other men.
> 
> While doing so she realizes that her STBXH GF and a guy she had a date with happen to know each other.. She then spends hours trying to figure out the conspiracy.
> 
> Of course she then proceeds to tell me and I just get annoyed that she spent hours looking at some guy she dated facebook pics..
> 
> But to her she is trying to find the connection.. That maybe they set him up to go out with her for some reason...
> 
> I told her she was crazy and that she couldn't even formulate the plot behind it..
> 
> Once I let it go, I laughed about it.. But at first I just fell into it. I was just annoyed thinking that she was looking at this guys pics and telling me about it.. Mind you this guy wanted to get me jammed up with my job as well.. So I really don't like this guy because he really, really, really could have screwed me over with my old job.. Again I was fortunate that the GF didn't take his advice and she told me she knew, how screwed I would be if she did..
> 
> Once she said to me you're not listening to me, I don't care about the pics... I am wondering if you can figure out where the setup is.. That is when I laughed, that her mind was about some crazy conspiracy against her.. Of course she eventually realized it was dumb as well.


Two pieces of advice, the first for you and the second for her:

- Start IC including anger management

- Stop using Facebook.


----------



## Hardtohandle

10/09/15 Friday

Just got served with papers.. 

The judge imputed money against her and now she is asking for a reduction because she has a part time job ? 

I thought that was the whole point of imputing a judgment.. 

But nonetheless 2 weeks after being awarded an increase the Ex tells me she will be starting a new job monday to friday and will NOT be able to take my son to school or pick him up anymore... 

She also tried to dictate that she will be taking my son every weekend from now on.. 

I laughed..

Mind you I found out just last week that she was working her dental hygienist job on Wednesday and Saturday.. So she is working 2 jobs..

You know I just don't get where this is gonna go ? 

For years she couldn't find a full time job.. But 2 weeks after the judgement coming down she finds a full time job.. It's AMAZING and MIRACLE.. All it took was a judge to tell her to pay and she gets a full time job.. 

But now this paperwork says she has part time job..

I'm really confused and annoyed..

This Sh!t never ends does it.


----------



## turnera

It might, if you're documenting everything and making life really hard for her.


----------



## happyman64

It might be worth talking to your attorney and the attorney suggests a way to enforce the court order to pay once it is documented she has full time and part time job.

Keep making her respect you.

Sooner or later she will get it.

It is inevitable,


----------



## Hardtohandle

10/25/15 Sunday

Went to family court and the judge reduced her child support again.. From 1350 to 600.. 

We have another court date coming up in FEBRUARY 2016... Holy crap... 

We have to bring in all our financial documents in.. Of course now that I am bringing in 14k a month in cash and will have around 80k in the bank I will look like a utter d0uche and an ogre because I am trying to get child support from a woman who is now making 13.50 an hour and needs to have a pension and medical coverage.. 

Mind you NOW I have 2 medical coverages as well. 

Nonethefvckingless, I was talking with the lawyer and he once again agreed with me. I will have to push the facts that the Family Court Act has *no provisions* in it for someone being afforded or required the right to have a pension or medical coverage.. 

But of course I will look like a d!ck saying it.. 

I am going to have to use the analogy I seen here about the old beat up car someone wrote up about the wife leaving.. 

My simple comments are going to ask the courts for some lateral and that they need to understand that on Sept 25, 2012 I wasn't making this money and they were not there to see her actions.. 

She simply made a bet on an old man and thought I would be supporting them and it failed.. She simply picked the wrong horse in this race.. 

I have to bring up other stuff from the divorce that my Ex wife is misrepresenting as well.. 

*This is just a rant..*
Beyond that there are times my GF makes me wish I had ex wife back.. I could honestly deal with the infidelity I feel right now.. Because I wouldn't give a sh!t.. 
Like the Meat Loaf song 2 out of 3 ain't bad.. 
I can just put it in its place.. 

Mind you I wouldn't take her back.. But it is just the frustrations I am feeling atm.. But I am truly and honestly starting to believe they are all fvcking nuts... I know they think the same about us.. But I am starting to see that many women just have fvcking lost their minds.. I never seen so many married women who are truly thinking the grass is greener.. Again I know women will echo the same about men.. I get it... 

We are all nuts..


----------



## carmen ohio

Hardtohandle said:


> . . . We have to bring in all our financial documents in.. Of course now that I am bringing in 14k a month in cash and will have around 80k in the bank I will look like a utter d0uche and an ogre because I am trying to get child support from a woman who is now making 13.50 an hour and needs to have a pension and medical coverage . . .


Thousands of guy are imprisoned every year because they can't make their child support payments (Dr. Helen: "...an estimated 50,000 persons are kept in jail or in prison on any given day in the U.S. for child support arrears.").

So, if I were you, Hth, I wouldn't lose any sleep over your fWW having to pay her fair share.

And, if a few women get thrown in jail for failing to pay up, maybe law makers will start to reform the stinking system.


----------



## Hardtohandle

12/28/15 Monday

Just a funny/not so funny story..

I was bantering with the GF and I said off the cuff.. "About 30 or 40 women told me to break up with you online".. 

The GF says of course "What 30 or 40 women online?"

I say "You know that website I am on" *I never told her the site name*

GF flips out and completely disregards its a self help group pretty much here on TAM and NOT a ONLINE DATING SITE... 

I get the ultimatum from the GF, "Show me what you posted and said on this site or we are through, I'm not kidding.. We are done"

I reply.. "I'm sorry, I just can't.. It's like a personal diary. You would misconstrue things. You would misconstrue stuff even before we met"

I further expressed I went overboard with the 30 or 40 women and that was a mix of men as well. 

Nonetheless she didn't want to hear it.. She expressed she didn't trust me anymore and she wouldn't be loyal to me if she didn't trust me..

I slightly snapped.. I told her " I will never, ever FVCKING show you anything from this site.. You are WASTING YOUR BREATH even trying.. If you want to break up with me over this by all means do so.. But me posting on a self help group is nothing to what I have had to deal with you over the past years.."

She ended the relationship Saturday..

Sunday I called her hoping she had calmed down and she didn't.. So I said good bye.. she calls me backup 3 hours later.. 

I knew she would.. 

I played hard to get for a bit, but not pushing it.. I'm starting to learn a bit..

Still in hover mode for court.. But I expressed to the lawyer my income issue and he told me not to worry about it. I could be making a million dollars.. Its not about my income.. its about her's since she is paying child support and that any time my income is brought up by anyone including the judge.. I was to remind them its not about me.. Its about her, the respondent.. I felt better after the conversation, gave me a bit of reassurance.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are in the wrong as you dangled something in her face, told a lie and then did a sh#t test on her. You knew exactly how she'd react and then you rubbed her nose in it in an aggressive manner.

You are too old to be playing games.
Stop it.


----------



## karole

Why on earth are you still with this woman? I think you enjoy living in torment. I really do.


----------



## karole

Are you in individual counseling? You really should be. Seriously.


----------



## Hardtohandle

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are in the wrong as you dangled something in her face, told a lie and then did a sh#t test on her. You knew exactly how she'd react and then you rubbed her nose in it in an aggressive manner.
> 
> You are too old to be playing games.
> Stop it.


OH.. I agree.. We were both being d0uches trust me, I just out d0uched her this time..

Something happened in the past I have never mentioned here with her.. It is something from her past.. But would be terribly long to explain *CORRECTLY*.. 

Nonetheless let us just simply say she had communications with someone via email several times and I was aware about it but she never showed me the emails.. Her canned response was as follows..

I *(meaning her)* didn't say anything bad or off color or lead anyone one on.. But he did or might have and I didn't want you to read it and get crazy over it and get into a big fight with me, over what he said.. I also didn't want you to cause issues in his life as well.. I was protecting us and him from a big fight with you.. 

So this was my counterstrike per say.. I can never see those deleted emails that I asked you not to delete.. You can never see this.. 

Mind you I didn't think of it before hand, but I did the minute she mentioned it.. I did say isn't it how ironic it is now.. Now you know how I feel and the angst I deal with from time to time of not knowing.. Now so do you.. In the end she had to eat it. .She knew.. I simply told her.. Show me the emails and I will show you this.. 

But yes.. I do admit I was being a d!ck and even more d0uche when she called me to tell me she didn't break up with me..


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Hmmm.... Yeah, it doesn't help. You are playing tit for tat and being petty.


----------



## turnera

That's ok. Anything to get out of that relationship. You shouldn't have been dating her anyway. Hopefully you'll remember how sh*tty you felt doing it and never do it again.


----------



## ThePheonix

As long as Hardtohandle continues to carry a white hot torch for the ex, he'll keep reacting like a wounded animal and strike out at people near him. I ain't got to be like this HtoH


----------



## Hardtohandle

03/29/16 Tuesday..

Long and the Short of it.

I went to court to get a support imputed against my ex wife and it worked.. UNTIL she came back the follow month and stated that the support would put her into a downward spiral of debt she could not get out of..

Nonetheless we had a court hearing 4 month later. Within those 4 months I retired and between my new job and pension fell into a very large monthly income.. 

I went into court and regardless knew I was going to look like a jerkoff because here I am making well over 200k a year now and my Ex-wife is making 50k a year.. 

End result she got a second job, but not making enough to meet her "potential" income. The judge went from 200 a month to 400 a month.. The Impute was 1350.. I was hoping for 1k a month.

A friend of mine smartly told me to walk away and move on with my life, which is what I intend to do.. Going to court just brings up frustrations and anger I don't need. 

I had plans with that money which were based around my kids future needs but its okay.. 

GirlFriend wise I am single but not looking ATM.. Just trying to take care of me, the kids, my family and the home. Once I get that in order I will go back on the hunt.


----------



## barbados

Thanks for the update HTH. Good to hear from you


----------



## honcho

Hardtohandle said:


> 03/29/16 Tuesday..
> 
> Long and the Short of it.
> 
> I went to court to get a support imputed against my ex wife and it worked.. UNTIL she came back the follow month and stated that the support would put her into a downward spiral of debt she could not get out of..
> 
> Nonetheless we had a court hearing 4 month later. Within those 4 months I retired and between my new job and pension fell into a very large monthly income..
> 
> I went into court and regardless knew I was going to look like a jerkoff because here I am making well over 200k a year now and my Ex-wife is making 50k a year..
> 
> End result she got a second job, but not making enough to meet her "potential" income. The judge went from 200 a month to 400 a month.. The Impute was 1350.. I was hoping for 1k a month.
> 
> A friend of mine smartly told me to walk away and move on with my life, which is what I intend to do.. Going to court just brings up frustrations and anger I don't need.
> 
> I had plans with that money which were based around my kids future needs but its okay..
> 
> GirlFriend wise I am single but not looking ATM.. Just trying to take care of me, the kids, my family and the home. Once I get that in order I will go back on the hunt.


My brothers first marriage lasted less than 3 years and they spent the next 14 years hauling each other into court fighting over child support. The amount they blew in legal fees over the years they probably could have put the kid thru Harvard. 

Your getting 400, it's better than nothing. Take your friends advice and push forward in your life.


----------



## Copingwithit

No clue why my name changed, but It is what it is.. But this is Hardtohandle.

03/02/17 Thursday.

Whats been going on with my life.

Lets just start with a quick synopsis for those just getting in.

Sept 25, 2012 caught the ex wife cheat. She continued to fake R while getting her stuff together to leave. I fell for it for the most part. I realized something wasn't right but she fooled me and the therapist. Finally caught her on new years eve day. After that day she became very heartless. 2013 January to April were the most traumatic times of my life. Those last 4 months before she moved out to be with the other man were painful. Nothing hurt more then seeing her leave to go meet this guy and then come home after fvcking him. 

I can say now what I didn't say then. I contemplated suicide seriously several times. I wasn't happy about it. Later on I was ashamed of my thoughts. I never thought I would be down that dark road but I never had to deal with something like this. 

I can honestly say I was and never will be 100 percent the same.

Nonetheless go to therapy since 2012 and have been going like its my new religion. 

I first dated a woman for 6 months a widow with twins. My mom didn't like her one fvcking bit.. She had some issues, was bit of a scammer. Her husband committed suicide and she could never bring herself to admit it. To her it was always a mob rub out. But they have video of the whole incident. She took to taking Xanax to deal with it. She was taking several a day. I think she had an issue with them. Again she wasn't a villain by any means. But not my cup of tea back then. 

After her went on POF and after about 5 to 6 weeks I met someone. Very attractive but was a bottomless bucket when it came to attention. That last for 3 plus years and just ended. We tried couples therapy that I paid for at the tune of 800 a month. Unfortunately she just felt she was perfect and was just there for me. Therapist tried hard for me. Even he told me several times to cut her loose. 

For me I never had to deal with this type of stuff before and trying so hard to fit a square peg into a round hole just be with someone just didn't work out. She 1 child with needs and as the 2nd grew up from 3 to 6 we could see the 2nd child starting having issues. She would yell and always cried, if she did something funny and you laughed she would think you were laughing at her and began to cry. certain things could not be moved and had to be in specific places every time she came into the house. When one of the cards disappeared she cried for almost an hour until I found it. She nervous tics.. 

The GF still felt she was the cats meow though she didn't have a pot to piss in and window to throw it out. She never stopped talking about guys hitting on her. It just went from constant every day down to something every few weeks. But it never stopped. She would blurt things out and when asked why she did it or said it, she had not clue and no real answer.. BUT she was perfect.. 

I tired very hard to work it out. I tried letting some stuff go but 3+ years into a relationship she was still getting calls or text from past relationships and what not. Only the few times I finally snapped and actually got involved in it did the contact stop. It really was just sending a very nasty email pretending to be her. But she couldn't do it.. It wasn't her style.. She couldn't be that way.. 

Of course that just screamed of *I STILL WANT THIS ATTENTION*.

I got it .. The Therapist got it.

I like the Therapist because he is no nonsense and calls you out when needed. He also talks about the science about stuff and how the mind works when dealing with this stuff.

Again my fault as I wanted to be with someone so bad I made excuses for it all. My fault as I allowed this sh!t to transpire. Lessons learned in life.

Oddly the more my relationships go down the toilet the more financially I win.. I would rather be broke financially and rich in love honestly. 

But my boys are doing good.. One is going to be 17 and the other 12.. The 17 year old has not still seen his mother since she left in 2013.. 

Oddly enough get ready for this one..

On one of the last fights with the GF she was so nasty that she hit with the comment *"I know why your wife left, I know why everyone leaves you.. It's just how you are"* 

So the next day I am second guessing and I text my ex wife I need to ask her questions about our marriage and how I was, but I want to do it during a Therapy session as I want the Therapist to hear it with me. The ex wife calls me up immediately and asks me whats up. I tell her what I want to ask and she cuts me off and asks to talk.

She begins to simply throw herself on the sword.. This is the first time in 5 years she takes all the blame for what she did. She tells me she ruined our marriage, our relationship and the relationship with the kids. She deeply sorry for what she did. She says I was a great husband and tells anyone who asks.. I went to work and came home.. We never fought except when she did these things.

I spoke with her in person the following week as the call left some loose ends. I asked her why ? She had no answer, she just simply said she didn't know.. She felt lonely and the excitement of what was going on etc.. I will always take blame for what I did wrong but I know nothing ever justified an Affair. Her gripe was me being on the computer all the time but she never once complained about it. We didn't do much together either, again our fault. We should have had date night.. We should have went out to dinner sometimes alone.. But we didn't.. We didn't have any alone time or adult time.. I didn't see it or realize it and neither did she.. Again I know nothing can justify an Affair beyond abuse. 

Nonetheless she hinted at fixing things between us. I told her what I have already learned from therapy. You don't know why you did it, so what makes you think you wouldn't do it again. If I tried to fix things with you now and you did it again.. I would probably kill you first then me. Both kids would utterly hate you if you did this again.. I'm sorry I just can't take that kind of chance. Go to therapy and figure it out. 

Mind you she is now working 3 jobs and broke. Again she wasn't pulling any punches or being a weasel. She was just telling it like it is. She clearly knows she fvcked things up and ruined her life as well. 

I felt bad.. I never wanted any of this for me or her.. *( mind you this is part of my problem, I'm too nice.. Therapist keeps telling me to be a skumbag to think about me first for once )*
Deep down I always loved her but there was nothing I could do.. So I moved on with my life best I could. I mean I really had no choice. Regardless I wouldn't do anything until she fixed herself. I won't be the other man and I won't bail her out and save her.. She needs to fix this on her own. 

Nonetheless,

This is how the breakup started with the GF

Out at dinner with 2 other couples.. We talk about how we met. I say these words, *"You know when I met soandso she had this dress from neck to toe. I figured let me give this another chance go out on a second date to see what was underneath that dress"* Mind you we are together 3+ years and she is wearing my Engagement ring. 

She hears I was giving her a chance, like I was doing her a favor.. She makes some remarks on how many choices she had and I was the last pic.. etc.. I tried to calm her down.. I apologized for taking it worn.. Not how it was meant. The other 2 couples also try to explain.. Nothing works.. The guys take me outside to cool off.. They can't believe it.. We go back in she is calling a cab.. She then tries to get her friend involved in a fight with me but everyone shots her down as we all see she is trying to drag other into the fight now. 

I try to talk her outside and calm her down.. She wants to leave and I can't go back in to pay the bill. Of course she is mad at them as well as they sided with me. I drive her home and basically gives me back the ring and pretty much tells me she is going to cheat so not to be upset since now I know.. That I can continue this relationship with her if I want but she will be dating other people. 

I stay her apartment that night but of course not together.. I tried the next day to calm her down, but she was more fired up.. She said some other stupid things and I left.. 

I left clarifying her statement about women leaving me. I told her for all the women that leave its funny how eventually they all want me back. 
The last GF before her looked to reconcile with me during a break between me and her and she texted me when we just got back together. 
And I told her about the Ex wife looking to come back.. 
And eventually 6 months from now I told her, so will you.. Once you have had enough bad d!ck in you and been abused enough you will see. 

Right now I am laying low and just resetting myself emotionally. 
Of course as I type this I get a call from my old partner for a new job for more money.. I swear you cannot make this sh!t up..

So the good thing is I have some closure at least with the ex wife.. I wasn't crazy.. I wasn't some bad guy or a demon.. 

Now I am working to get my oldest and her together.. She wants to see him and that is more than what my father wanted when he left.. Not pushing my son. I am on his side and just letting him mull it over. But I told him straight out.. Look I know you might have many different ideas in your head. But the reality is when you see your mom, you will cry and she will cry.. 

I cried when she threw herself on the sword. Was like a weight was lifted off my chest.


----------



## sokillme

Your therapist is right, there were probably problems all along. The type of women you are attracting can smell that you will put up with their nonsense. You will continue to attract these types if you continue to put up with them.


----------



## stillthinking

> The 17 year old has not still seen his mother since she left in 2013..


Any woman who can leave her son, and not see him for 4 years is seriously screwed up. That is not my opinion, it is a fact. The parental bond between a mother and child has developed along an evolutionary path to be very strong. It is what has moved us forward as a species. When that bond does not function correctly its bad news.

Ask any addiction medicine specialist. They will tell you that if losing her children does not motivate an addict to get help, then statically they are going to die of their addiction. Britney Spears was a hot mess until the authorities threatened to take her kids. Then she did a 180.

On the GF/wife front, sounds like your picker needs some adjusting. Right now its set to "Drama".


----------



## SunCMars

Quote: Hardtohandle


> Of course as I type this I get a call from my old partner for a new job for more money.. I swear you cannot make this sh!t up..


Transiting Jupiter in 10th, square Neptune in 7th, trine Venus in 2d 

Or something like that. 

$1000 in the left hand......burning tar in the right hand. Life is not one dimensional.

Life hits you from many quarters......a few bucks too.


----------



## Chuck71

W/B HtH.... definitely re-calibrate your picker. Yeah yeah but she was cute. Ok, I'll give you that

but take into account her personality, morals. Course you don't really find out the truth of these

until about 9-12 months in. Your XW is severely damaged. You are correct in not saving her.

Not seeing her child in four years, I would compare her to rat schit but that would be too degrading

to the rat schit. Focus on you and the kids. Your profession played a part in your desire to 

fix or save others. Stop with the Mr. Fixer / Mr. Nice Guy / Mr. Doormat.

If you did.... meet and fix someone's issues, do they usually stick around or try to find an upgrade?

You were a public servant, now retired, financially successful, good parent.... seems to me, the females

need to be looking to catch your attention than the other way around.


----------



## Chuck71

SunCMars said:


> Quote: Hardtohandle
> 
> 
> Transiting Jupiter in 10th, square Neptune in 7th, trine Venus in 2d
> 
> Or something like that.
> 
> $1000 in the left hand......burning tar in the right hand. Life is not one dimensional.
> 
> Life hits you from many quarters......a few bucks too.


Pass that bong when you're done!


----------



## old red

Chuck71 said:


> Pass that bong when you're done!


I've never had illicit drugs, but **** that was funny.

H2H - I have no advice, but wow, what a story. I wish you the very best, particularly in regards to your two sons.


----------



## farsidejunky

Thanks for the check in, H2H.

Brother, how you spent 3 years with that wretch is beyond me.

Learn to love yourself before you try to get serious with another woman.


----------



## SunCMars

Chuck71 said:


> Pass that bong when you're done!


You want the bong.

WW wants the dong.

And then.....I come a long.

I come a long way....while you dither with unknowns. Pooh-Pah the hidden that eludes you. Nay, you lazily ignore.

I see it. Most don't. Sorry for you....blessed am I, though I too be blind. 

I can see only half way to the nearest star. *Thou ponder the pretty ladies belly button*. And not near enough "It" is...to either Thou or Moi-Meme.

And that is the *"Outie*" to thee, the *"Innie and Outie" button to me.
*
That button, that once fed an after-the-fact and evolved Zygote that became a voluptuous Dame with powers only in the real world.

And those powers [she has not] in the Hereafter, though, in your meager Real World, is what you are here...after. 

Look beyond the Flesh, lest it drag you to that Slaughter House of non-creativity such a sad myopic reality for many souls as thee. It is a dead end, where your carcass resides. 

I am not alone.....but one would surmise this.

You are not alone a'tall. You are surrounded by billions of your ilk.

I fear not the Power and Glory....this I revel, Zahir Karna.....as you ignore the same.

I love you too, Bro!


----------



## SunCMars

farsidejunky said:


> Thanks for the check in, H2H.
> 
> Brother, how you spent 3 years with that wretch is beyond me.
> 
> Learn to love yourself before you try to get serious with another woman.


H2H has evolved.

To* H2O*. 

Now, tepid* water* under the bridge. He is sustaining his stamen bearing boy.

And the Wayward Wife *NOW sees herself,* as a cast-off leaf, heading downstream to be consumed by the unforgiving rapids ahead.

As a fallen leaf, never to be part of the family tree that she abandoned.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

You are an interesting messenger @SunCMars... especially in your Urdu ظاہر کرنا


----------



## turnera

So...in all these solid years of therapy, what have you done to realize and accept and LIVE that you're a great, loveable, valuable person? Cos I'm still not hearing it.


----------



## Copingwithit

turnera said:


> So...in all these solid years of therapy, what have you done to realize and accept and LIVE that you're a great, loveable, valuable person? Cos I'm still not hearing it.


Right now turnera, I have no clue.. I'm like a drug addict going through withdrawal. I hate hear and love her. I wish things could have been different.
I will never call her or reach out to her.. But it is killing me. 

She was toxic.. 

She did triangulation- Basically brought other people into the relationship to cause issues. .EG other men to cause insecurity.. Other friends to cause other issues. 

Like my Ex wife, she will only see it down the road.. 

When she couldn't control me anymore she turned people against me. 

I spoke with the therapist about an article I seen and read 20 Diversion Tactics Highly Manipulative Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths Use To Silence You | Thought Catalog

She did many of these things, I just didn't see it.. 

His answer was I couldn't tell you.. This was one thing you had to learn for yourself. If I told you it would have went in one ear and out another.. You wouldn't believe it if I told you.

I truly understand what a drug addict deals with. You want the drug, you know the drug will be bad but you still want it. It is rough..

The therapist concern is why it took me 3 years. Why kept trying.. Why couldn't I let it go earlier.. That is something he wants to go over with me and maybe teach me. 
Just fvcking kills me.. I have a good life and would to share with someone. I don't need a doctor or a lawyer.. Just a woman who would appreciate me and not take advantage of me. 
For all my street skills they just do not relate into any form of relationship skills.

I'm just down and out atm.. 
I am mourning and I get it.. So I cry. But I just feel I cried enough for a life time with my ex wife.. 
I've been sad enough for a life time already..


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## Openminded

She'll be back. That's her pattern. The two of you have done this dance several times in the past IIRC. Neither of you can completely end it -- although not only your therapist but many others have told you to let her go and don't look back. I said long ago that you apparently like the drama of an up/down relationship and she certainly brings that so I don't think your time on that merry-go-round is done yet. 

There are nice, normal, lovely women out there. Look for them.


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## turnera

Ask your IC specifically for SELF ESTEEM work. Including homework that you have to do every day. In the book Emotional Alchemy, you'll learn that you CAN change your thoughts and feelings, but it requires 'exercise,' just like any other muscle you work. You can't just say I'm going to wake up tomorrow and be different.


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## Chuck71

Openminded said:


> She'll be back. That's her pattern. The two of you have done this dance several times in the past IIRC. Neither of you can completely end it -- although not only your therapist but many others have told you to let her go and don't look back. I said long ago that you apparently like the drama of an up/down relationship and she certainly brings that so I don't think your time on that merry-go-round is done yet.
> 
> There are nice, normal, lovely women out there. Look for them.


They always come back.... in one form or another.

Does it mean you won? No

Just means you were right all along.


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## bandit.45

H2H, my advice to you is that once our kids are grown and on their own....maybe think about joining a monestery.


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## Chuck71

H2H.......noticed you still visit here. How are things going?


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## Hardtohandle

Chuck71 said:


> H2H.......noticed you still visit here. How are things going?


Its been a long road.

I would love to break it all down in some long post and give you all my thoughts, but I would loose everyone with the long story.

So I will go for the crib notes version as best as I can.

We just can't leave each other. 
She can leave if I tell her to go but she will also come back when I tell her. So in the end she can't leave. 
Part of her hates that because she never had that issue before. Her mentality is get over and under him. 

Look I think in the end its all primal instincts.
She is very attractive woman and makes a good dollar. She very sexual as well. 

I am not her equal in looks, but I'm a big guy at 6'3" decent looking. I make decent amount of money. A 2 million dollar home in a high scale neighborhood. 
I definitely have a much higher sexual appetite then she does. 
I am very caveman'ish. I take it when I want it. She fakes the fight but loves it. 
I say 3 to 4 times a week is good, she says its too much. She "complains" that twice or 3 times in a day is too much or that should be enough for the week. 
My comment is when she can show me that she can survive without eating Monday to Friday while only eating on Saturday and Sunday then I will agree.

She has seen me take some action and she knows I will protect her or defend her. I've had some odd instances where men didn't realize we were together and decided to talk out the side of their necks and they realized real fast I wasn't going to let them get away with it and they knew I was ready to go to the end with it. Again being primal I knew it turned her on, as much as she was worried for me or even "upset" that I made a scene. In the end she loved it. 

End result no matter what a narcissist she might be, I have over the years learned on how to deal with some if it. There are times I loose it. I'm distracted from work, bit over tired and don't see it coming and fall for her shlt hook line and sinker. 

I just think at this age in our lives me in my early 50s and her mid 40s.. I just think we know enough that the dating pool is just much smaller and the chance of finding fuvked up people is greater now then when younger. 
I think we check off enough boxes for each other that we realize we are better trying to fix us then trying to find someone else because it might take some time trying to find that other right person. 

I think that fear is much more for women then men. I've arrested 100s of people in my days for child pornography. Out of all the people there was only one woman. 
I think my wife sort of knows that as well. In her weaker more open moments she has admitted worried about meeting someone and getting date raped or just getting involved with some crazy guy or someone looking to hurt her kids.

She also was fortunate to go out on ONE date with a guy when we broke up that ended up stalking her, right after the first date. Again I don't blame him. Hot looking girl great job.. Good money.. He lived in the basement of his house with his ex wife above him with her boyfriend. So he was that broke he couldn't afford to leave. 

He only went away when we got back together, again because he knew who I was. I didn't even know until months later because she was embarrassed that I was right about how crazy it is out there. I sort of forewarned her, I told her good luck when you meet that crazy guy that won't take no for an answer or the guy that feels he should get something because he spent money on a dinner for you. 

So women might start off with doctor with summer home and then eventually settle for a guy that won't hurt me or my kids and I don't care if he has a job. 
Again I know I am not wrong because I know a female lawyer that pretty much said it. 
You get enough bad dating moments it will scare you off.

So I think we both realize we should keep what we got. 
I might sound like an a$$hole but I took very care of wife in my will as well. I am looking out for her and she knows it even if she never will admit it.

It just isn't the fantasy of when you were 20 years old. 
We need to pay bills, put a roof over our kids heads, make sure our kids have better than we have it and make sure they are safe.

We are not settling, we love each other and we can't figure out the fights either sometimes. But we also know what more are we looking for ?
She knows she is good looking and could find someone maybe better in some way but how does she know he isn't going to be looking for something else better 5 years from now. 
She realizes we have something invested over these 6 years no matter how crazy it might have been. Is she going to waste another 3 or 4 years looking ? 
We are just not 20 years old anymore. 1 year of time is just much more valuable now then it was when I was 20.
Again there are just some honest realities at play here even if someone people don't like to hear it. 

As far as my Ex wife.. I could have had her back at any time. I would never tell my current wife as it would drive her crazy. 
My Ex realizes very very well now how much she messed up.

Both Ex and her boyfriend ( that she is looking to leave ) both seen my wife. My son realized it because he was asking a bit too much about my current wife. My son called him out on it. Made him back peddle. 

I kill my ex wife with kindness. I tell her all the time I never wanted this. 

But the truth is I have to be crazy because with all this said I do love my current wife. I would never give her up. I would never go back or ask my ex wife for anything and there were times we had broken up and I could.

I know its all a crazy story. People keep telling me to do a reality show because it so nuts at times.


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## Buffer

Hmmm 🤔 
Buffer


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## alte Dame

Reading this thread is like going to a class reunion.

I'm assuming the 'she' in this is the gf from 5+ years ago? The one you've broken up with numerous times?

Some people can't let go no matter how volatile and broken the relationship. It's your life, not ours, so what we here think is just background noise for you. 

Best of luck, no matter which direction this all takes.


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## SunCMars

H2H can never separate from the past. Nor should he desire to.
It's links and threads will never let him go.

They cannot be severed.

..........................................................................................

The past is you yesterday, with today, some new pasts will be formed.

Love your past. It's soil was given to you to plow through or to fall flat on your face... atop.

Life is a dream that stops playing on the day that you die, and then you go under, and adjourn/adjoin with that soil.

Ah' then, others then carry the memories somewhat further.

When the past returns to kiss your lips, know it never left, it merely disappeared and went into shadow.

You may relinquish the past, yet others may revive it before your eyes.
No man owns his past and those that appeared in it.

The past is that wobbly circle that follows your footsteps, your toes may desire, but can never quite make that straight line forward.


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