# The same fight - Every Night!



## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Ok, 
I guess I am looking for some unbiased advice! I can talk to my girlfriends, or mother - but then they are always on my side. I appreciate this, but sometimes an outside view helps.

My husband and I seem to be fighting a lot. We have been arguing for about 3 years now, since the birth of my son. The first year with our son was hard, but I felt like we had sorted it out. I am now 5 months pregnant with our 2nd (A little girl). 

Ok, 
He get's "Grumpy" - and his moods have immediate effects on my moods. 
Last night for example - He is not in a great mood, we are setting up my son's bed and he is moving furniture. He wacks my son's book case against a toy box (by accident). I said "Careful" in response to the sound, and he jumped down my throat. - to the point that my mother looked over at me like, "did I miss something". (She was over helping move stuff) Then later that evening he started complaining that my son's bowl of cheerios was sitting in the sink with milk and cereal still in it. He thought I had put it there. Now my mother had, but at 9pm at night he is shouting through the house about a bowl of cereal. - We have a garbage disposal, it's not that hard to rinse it down the sink. 

At this point I get angry. I am not sure where in our relationship he decided it was ok to treat me like the enemy, or to speak to me like this. 
When I call him on it he treats me like I am silly. 

I asked him why he was in a bad mood, - his answer was "I am not in a bad mood" - So I of course respond "Oh this is your good mood?" 

I understand people get grumpy - but this has become a constant thing. It's weekly. I go to bed sad, mad and hurt. He continues to claim that it's not any different than how I treat him so it's justified? We have the same fight - Over and over again. 

I worry that this is how we are going to communicate for the next 60 year. - No I don't worry about that because I won't last 60 more years in this constant unrest. 

Advice would be helpful. How do I get back to where he looks at me fondly, cares about my opinions, and how we start treating each other like we use to? 
Right now he is a wall, does not communicate at all with me, never shows any emotion besides annoyed. It's truly getting to the point where I don't want to even try any more. If he wants to be an island - so be it.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm curious how your sex life is, or how your H thinks it is. My H can get grumpy, and part of it turned out to be lack of sex as often as he would like it. Another part of it was how I responded to his moods, which would escalate the matter into a full out screaming match over something so little as a bowl of cereal in the sink  

Do the two of you communicate well when he is not "grumpy"? How long have you been married? 

Just thinking and sorry if I'm way off base.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The grumpiness is coming from unmet needs. Any idea what his life is missing?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Welcome to TAM Wife30. After 20 years with my wife, I get grumpy a lot...I am sure things similar to your husband. I get upset at the little things that doesn't mean anything and I can't help myself. Sometimes I will tell myself that I won't go off or get angry. So it unfolds like I am watching a movie about myself and the lines come out of me without my control. 

I like what cherry and mavash said. The sex was missing for me for so long. It's better now but the resentment is still there. We have zero chemistry, no hugs and it seems like no love. Now it is her tern to build up her resentments because after 18 years we are finally having the sex. I know for both of us our hearts are not in it. We are in trouble.

Grumpiness for me comes from my unmet needs. Part of that is sex and part of it is just feeling needed and loved. There is a lack of communication too. We have this huge wall that we may not be able to tear down. 

After 20 years, it seems worse. The "wall" gets bigger. I don't know what tO expect anymore. It has to come from her. At the same time, I have to get past my $hit.


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## mommyofthree (Jan 7, 2012)

I can't offer any real advise but am in the same situation with the same fight over and over.It feels like every weekend (hes only home on weekends) we have the same fight except its progressivly getting worse.

Im assuming in my case something happened back in January and also back when we were dating (because he mentions two things frequently in our arguments out of the blue) and he has never gotten over it or sat with me to discuss the 2 issues and put them to bed.

Im sorry you are going through this.Its hard to be on eggshells and it makes life suck.

In my case the sex is amazing so thats not the problem.

<hugs>


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

mommyofthree said:


> Im assuming in my case something happened back in January and also back when we were dating


Never assume anything. 90% of what we assume about people is incorrect. Even if you are right that these event are what's wrong I'm betting you don't know WHY they are still triggering him. Your best bet is to calmly ask him to explain it to you.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

These arguments are almost never about a bowl of cherios or a bumped toy. 

Normally they are about power. My bet is that he is feeling insecure about something, maybe because he gets less attention than he used to, he feels he isn't contributing enough (financially maybe) or he feels unloved/undesired. Men normally lash out when they feel emasculated in some way.

The real cause of the problem needs to be found. The problem is we often only talk about these things during a fight or when a problem arises. Try talking when he is happy and relaxed. Be direct ask him what the real problem is.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> These arguments are almost never about a bowl of cherios or a bumped toy.
> 
> Normally they are about power. My bet is that he is feeling insecure about something, maybe because he gets less attention than he used to, he feels he isn't contributing enough (financially maybe) or he feels unloved/undesired. Men normally lash out when they feel emasculated in some way.
> 
> The real cause of the problem needs to be found. The problem is we often only talk about these things during a fight or when a problem arises. Try talking when he is happy and relaxed. Be direct ask him what the real problem is.


I agree... Ask him. My wife writes little notes on the water bottle that our 8 year old takes to lunch. I never get notes from her.

I used to leave notes all over the place. On the mirror,in her make-up cubby, on the fridge and she never did the same. Our dog gets more attention than I do and I am the only income earner. She stays at home and doesn't take care of the home. So, I do lash out more than I should.

I agree... Talk to him when he is in a good mood, he may not get as defensive. Watch out for those egg shells.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

We have been married 8 years. And the first 5 were great! We would fight but it was about things like, how he drives, or who picks up the dinner. Never so void as it is now! Fighting for fighting sake(If that makes sense) 

The sex is on and off. I am pregnant right now, and actually in the mood a lot, but he never seems to try anymore - so if I don't instigate... and I am not great at initiating sex... then we stew in silence. He blames me, saying I would turn him down a lot so he stopped trying, but I feel like he blames me for everything. When we have sex - it's good, but I don't feel like there is a lot of intimacy. More wham bam thank you mam. If you get my drift.

He does not communicate - even in good moods. He has been pushing me for the last 3 years to have another baby. He wants a little girl, but did not act excited at all - actually acted grumpy when we found out we were having a girl. It's odd - the second child was more pressure from him, but then he didn't tell anyone until I asked why he hadn't shared the news, and he was grumpy the day we found out we were having a girl. 

I the last 3 years he has also lost a lot of weight. He diets, and exercises daily. Sometimes I resent the time spent exercising vs. helping with kids, chores, etc. We both work full time and I feel things should be split evenly. But he will go "work out" for 2-3 hours each day. I never have that kind of time- with out guilt. He says I could go out, have a hobby - my response I say "when then would you work out? Or when would we spend time together as a family?" Then I am the awful wife that doesn't support his efforts to be healthier. Don't get me wrong he looks FANTASTIC and I really don't have something I want to be doing. I guess I just want him around more. Then he feels like I am trying to chain him or something.

Sometimes I wonder if the grumpy mood is his diet. He doesn't eat any grain (Bread, pasta, etc.) Sometimes I wonder if he is hugry. I am very thin naturally. I actually have to eat more calories to maintain weight. So A cookie here, or big bowl of pasta is nothing for me. But we eat totally different diets at this point, and he gets grumpy if I put cookies in the house. Because he will eat them and then blame me because I bought them. Well I want to eat them. I am 5"7 5months pregnant and only 115lbs.. I am small. Food is my friend and his diet is his choice. - I thought he looked GREAT 3 years ago when he was 235lbs... now at 175lbs he looks good too. I get he is healthier, but he is not as much fun. 

I just want to stop fighting and get back to us. It makes me sad. It hurts my feelings because I feel like I am being blamed. I don't know. I have my faults too. I am messy, and I like junk food. But I was that way when he married me.

I don't know. I see people where their spouse is cheating or abusive and I think it could be worse, but I am unhappy. It feels hopeless.

I have directly asked him- he says I am being silly and nothing is wrong. If there is an underlined problem, I am not sure if he even knows what it is.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Wife,

This to me is quite telling "He blames me, saying I would turn him down a lot so he stopped trying". 

I am in a similar place in my 26 year marriage. After too many rejections to count, I just don't try anywhere near as much as I used to. I am happy when my wife intiates (which has been 2 times this year). Men want to feel desired and wanted too, just like women. We sometimes feel that our spouses have sex with as like it was a chore for them and just one more otem to cross off on the To Do list. After a while, chore sex loses it's appeal.

How are the family finances? I know that I get grumpy when I deny myself things due to budetary reasons and then I find out that my wife bought another pair of shoes or a top or more clothes for my daughter while we are supposedly trying to pay down debt! The things I buy are for things like re-doing the foyer in our home (new doors, paint, etc). It makes me want to go out and buy the iPad I've wanted to get for the past two years!

I also think that there is something(s) deep down that bother him. I also believe that the best route is to approach him openly and honestly saying "Honey, you know I love you but I am concerned about us. I plan on growing old with you but I have noticed that at times, you seem to get upset at minor things that happen and I can't help but wonder what it is that is really driving this anger. I would really love to get some joint counseling with you so the BOTH of us can work at making this marriage better for us AND our beautiful children"


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> Ok,
> He get's "Grumpy" - and his moods have immediate effects on my moods.
> 
> At this point I get angry. I am not sure where in our relationship he decided it was ok to treat me like the enemy, or to speak to me like this.
> ...


What is happening is that you are allowing yourself to be emotionally reactive, you are reacting to his emotions. This is a choice you make and you can choose not to do it.

Everyone get angry and anger is understandable but we can't allow ourselves to yield to anger and act in an angry manner. Going to bed mad or sad means you are holding resentment over his bad behavior. It is like drinking poison and thinking the other person will die. The way to release resentment is through forgiveness.

Your husband need to do his share in your relationship, but you can't do it for him. The best thing you can do for the two of you is doing the best you can for yourself. I'm not talking about diet or housekeeping, I'm talking about building and keeping a positive self image and not yielding to emotion


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I the last 3 years he has also lost a lot of weight. He diets, and exercises daily. Sometimes I resent the time spent exercising vs. helping with kids, chores, etc. We both work full time and I feel things should be split evenly. But he will go "work out" for 2-3 hours each day. I never have that kind of time- with out guilt. He says I could go out, have a hobby - my response I say "when then would you work out? Or when would we spend time together as a family?" Then I am the awful wife that doesn't support his efforts to be healthier. Don't get me wrong he looks FANTASTIC and I really don't have something I want to be doing. I guess I just want him around more. Then he feels like I am trying to chain him or something.
> 
> I just want to stop fighting and get back to us. It makes me sad. It hurts my feelings because I feel like I am being blamed. I don't know. I have my faults too. I am messy, and I like junk food. But I was that way when he married me.
> 
> ...



I can relate to all of that. I want my wife to get a hobby. I see how stresses she gets, especially over the summer being that she is a SAHM. My wife buys a lot of junk food and although I like to eat it, I would rather her not buy so much. I have very little will power. 

I know she must feel like she does nothing right. She may be messy, like you. I married her that way, I should have known what I was getting myself into.

I do think your husband HAS TO do his part in the house woork. Even though I work, I still cook half of the time and vacume, dishes and so much other stuff. HEY...That could be part of my anger...

I do agree that you need a hobby, Find a way to do that. Even if he has to give up some of his workout time. Most gyms have a daycare. I see moms all the time on the running trails with their baby. 

Spend time AWAY from your hubby and make him miss you a little and don't ALWAYS be there for him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> How do I get back to where he looks at me fondly, cares about my opinions, and how we start treating each other like we use to?


Sex. Have some. Then have some more.

I find my husband getting irritable when he doesn't get it on a regular basis. Snippy, agitated. I rock his world and he goes back to being my sweetie pie. 

And yes I'm serious. Have sex with your husband.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Sex. Have some. Then have some more.
> 
> I find my husband getting irritable when he doesn't get it on a regular basis. Snippy, agitated. I rock his world and he goes back to being my sweetie pie.
> 
> And yes I'm serious. Have sex with your husband.


For me, when we are having the sex 3-4 times a week, I stay happy. Add another day of sex in there (if she is happy about that) and I will even scrub the toilets (all three of them) with a smile on my face. 

Why hasn't my wife learned that by now?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"A man is like a linoleum floor. Lay him right and you can walk on him for forty years"


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Could it be something as simple as he is just turning into a d!ck?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Men need sex. Like air to breathe, men need sex.

And they love it when their wife will initiate it. It makes them feel wanted and loved just that much more. 

I find when I initiate, the sex is even better. I control what happens and he loses his mind. Who doesn't want that?? lol


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Already Gone said:


> For me, when we are having the sex 3-4 times a week, I stay happy. Add another day of sex in there (if she is happy about that) and I will even scrub the toilets (all three of them) with a smile on my face.
> 
> Why hasn't my wife learned that by now?


Preach brother AG...Preach that good word. My wife needs to hear.

*humming hymns in the backround*


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

endlessgrief said:


> Could it be something as simple as he is just turning into a d!ck?


I would hate to think that a guy can just become a d!ck, for no reason, to his wife after 8 years of marriage (or 5 years when this fussing started). If that's the case, then she should plan to just divorce or deal with his grumpiness. Neither of those sound like fun choices to me.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> since the birth of my son. The first year with our son was hard, but I felt like we had sorted it out. I am now 5 months pregnant with our 2nd (A little girl).


I challenge any man on this forum to tell me they were never grumpy during their wife's second pregnancy. We need to accept that hormonal fluctuations and the arrival of a new child with a second coming right up is going to cause some emotional stress. Sometimes the most we can do is to do our best not to make things any worse


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

endlessgrief said:


> Could it be something as simple as he is just turning into a d!ck?


Yeah, one of my girlfriends say's it has something with having children and being in our 30's. "We become our parents"- My husband's father is kind of a ****. My Hubby even says all he remembers from growing up is his dad being "grumpy". And I see him get grumpy with my son. It really worries me that this is how he thinks he needs to be as a father, & husband. 
His parents divorced after 27 years of marriage - dad cheated - a few times. 

My parents have been married for 35 years. So I grew up with and expect a different kind of relationship. I want to sit down every night and have dinner together. To him this is not a big deal. They didn't do this growing up. Actually when I first started dating him he would eat his dinner standing up hovering over the trash can. It was odd to me. 
I really worry that we just want different things, or expect different things from our marriage. 

He doesn't tell me things, like he got a big bonus at work, but instead of sharing this news he hides the money, spends over a thousand dollars on a new bike for his workout - though he told me less - I looked the bike up and realized he spent much more. When I ask about how he paid for it, he says well I was going to get the nursery furniture for our new little one as a surprise, and maybe that's true... and he did buy the furniture, but why be dishonest about the bike. We both work, and make good money, and he deserves to spend some of that money on himself. I would not have stopped him. I just spent a small fortune on Maternity clothes, but was up front and honest about it. He has had job offers come in, and again does not share this information. It's like he is afraid I will influence his decisions, but as his wife, would he not want my influence. In the heat of the fight I asked him "have I ever held you back or made you do something you didn't want to do" his answer was NO! but yet he treats me like the enemy. Why wouldn't he want my influence, and as his partner shouldn't I be involved in these decisions... like new jobs and spending large amounts of money.

I want to be his partner. 
I get the "have sex" argument, but we "have sex" 1-2 times a week after I initiate it. 

And to be honest it does feel like a chore, but I have to say I am not interested in having sex with someone who excludes me from every other part of his life. THE ONLY TIME HE COMPLEMNTS ME IS DURING SEX. This feeds all kinds of resentment. I have gotten to where it's a turn off when he calls me sexy, or pretty during sex - because I never hear it otherwise. 

He is so blocked off, quiet, distant.. I don't know. Has counseling worked for any of you all?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Wife30 said:


> And to be honest it does feel like a chore, but I have to say I am not interested in having sex with someone who excludes me from every other part of his life. THE ONLY TIME HE COMPLEMNTS ME IS DURING SEX. This feeds all kinds of resentment. I have gotten to where it's a turn off when he calls me sexy, or pretty during sex - because I never hear it otherwise.
> 
> He is so blocked off, quiet, distant.. I don't know. Has counseling worked for any of you all?


Tell him that... Let him know how it makes you feel. 

Counseling helped for my H and myself, and we had a fabulous counselor. It really opened up our lines of communication. We both were "forced" to be accountable for our marriage and improving it.... If something happened during the week that upset either of us, we could bring it up during our next appointment and talk it through. I think it's a good idea for you and your H, if both of you are willing to work on things... But your H has to acknowledge there is a problem first, does he?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I want to be his partner.
> I get the "have sex" argument, but we "have sex" 1-2 times a week after I initiate it.


I don't think it's enough.

Sex is intimacy for a man. If you give him what he needs he'll return it to you.

I think some of his other behavior is a direct result of not getting his needs met. He's not willing to meet yours any more than you are willing to meet his. Does that make sense?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think it's enough.
> 
> Sex is intimacy for a man. If you give him what he needs he'll return it to you.
> 
> I think some of his other behavior is a direct result of not getting his needs met. He's not willing to meet yours any more than you are willing to meet his. Does that make sense?


I'm beginning to think that this has little to do with it, when they do have sex the 1/2 times a week, she initiates it. She's not turning him down when he asks, it sounds like he doesn't ask... She is not starving him sexually, 1-2 times/week sounds pretty good in my book... And she can't meet his needs with the way he is acting... She said it herself and I believe her, I have been there. It's hard to lay down with someone who otherwise treats you like crap. They need counseling, her H needs to open up to her and tell her what is bothering him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Cherry said:


> I'm beginning to think that this has little to do with it, when they do have sex the 1/2 times a week, she initiates it. She's not turning him down when he asks... She is not starving him sexually, 1-2 times/week sounds pretty good in my book... And she can't meet his needs with the way he is acting... She said it herself and I believe her, I have been there. It's hard to lay down with someone who otherwise treats you like crap. They need counseling, her H needs to open up to her and tell her what is bothering him.


Stonewalling one another isn't solving the problem is it?

And because SHE thinks 1-2 times is plenty, its very possible to HIM it is not. 

It's attention he's seeking. Maybe she spends most of it tending to her child, which theres nothing wrong with, but he may be feeling neglected in many areas because of it. It happens.

Counseling could be helpful, but only if he's willing to participate.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> And I see him get grumpy with my son. It really worries me that this is how he thinks he needs to be as a father, & husband.


Please don't worry about this. Accept him for who he is and make sure he knows that you are there to support him as he learns to shoulder his growing responsibilities.

Counseling couldn't hurt but I think your husband could really use a good friend or someone who's "been there" to help him develop into his role as husband and father

I think you are doing an exceptional job under the circumstances. There will be plenty enough time in the future for you two to work though the baggage from your families of origin


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You can't control the thoughts and actions of other people.

Do what is within your control. If you're doing something over and over again that's not working, then change it up. Waiting for your partner to make the first move is a passive aggressive way to tackle an issue. Take the lead and 9 times out of 10, they'll follow it.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

No I am not sure he thinks there is a problem. He thinks I just react to his moods, then if he sits quiet and waits a few days I will get over it, but then we have the same fight again next week. 

I have told him how I feel. I have done it calmly, during good and bad times. Nothing is changing. 

After the birth of our son, we had a really bad patch. After a big fight, I think I discovered he was feeling left out. I had tunnel vision about the baby, and stopped giving him attention. So I tried to make sure I concentrated on stuff for just us - minus kids. 

But now I don't know. I invite him to lunch, dinners out, plans with friends. He NEVER plans evenings with me. If he has spare time - he works out and gets grumpy if he has to drop his kid off at school, or meet me for a chore if in interferes with his workout schedule. 

But he was a joint member and a driving force in the decision to have a family. I guess he just expects me to do it, along with my 40+ work hour week.

I don't know if I should bring this up, it was 3 years ago, but right after our son was born, I say we had a bad patch - basically I caught him FB messaging a woman at his work. They wern't horrible messages, but they were secret and crossed a few lines. After I found out he stoped and I have no reason to think anything more of it. But I have to say lately, with all his grumpyness it brings that time back in my mind. I feel like that's when he stopped "liking" me... and I am not sure he has ever gotten back to liking me. He says he loves me, I have asked if he wants to split or take a break, he says no. But then he only acts annoyed with me. 

Who knows maybe I am annoying.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *After the birth of our son, we had a really bad patch. After a big fight, I think I discovered he was feeling left out. I had tunnel vision about the baby, and stopped giving him attention.* So I tried to make sure I concentrated on stuff for just us - minus kids


Maybe he's distancing himself for this reason. 

Bracing himself from getting hurt.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

It's also very possible he's engaged in some type of affair. It could be a EA (not physical). 

I would ask him if he'd be willing to go with you to counseling. Tell him you feel your marriage is in trouble and could use a tune up.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> "We become our parents"- My husband's father is kind of a ****. My Hubby even says all he remembers from growing up is his dad being "grumpy". And I see him get grumpy with my son. It really worries me that this is how he thinks he needs to be as a father, & husband.


There is some truth that we become our parents. After all, they were our role models growing up. I SWORE I would never, ever become like my mother. In many ways, I am the polar opposite; however, once in awhile I catch myself doing something and think, "OMG, that is what mom would have done!" 



Wife30 said:


> So I grew up with and expect a different kind of relationship. I want to sit down every night and have dinner together. To him this is not a big deal. They didn't do this growing up. Actually when I first started dating him he would eat his dinner standing up hovering over the trash can. It was odd to me.


We all have expectations, and they can get us in trouble, particularly when we expect our spouse to behave a certain way, and they let us down by behaving in a way we find unacceptable. I hope your husband is sitting down to dinner with you at this point. The deal of hovering over the trash can while eating ... I don't know what it is about that particular behavior that makes me uneasy. So there ya go - expectations. I don't expect someone to do something like that.

Sex is an important ingredient in a marriage; kinda like the frosting on the cake that makes the cake taste even better. JMO, but I have always felt that if things are not going well outside the bedroom, there isn't going to be much action in the bedroom. I am coming from the perspective of a woman, and it's my own bias.



Wife30 said:


> He doesn't tell me things, like he got a big bonus at work, but instead of sharing this news he hides the money, spends over a thousand dollars on a new bike for his workout - though he told me less - I looked the bike up and realized he spent much more.


Getting a big bonus is something I cannot imagine not sharing with one's spouse, if only because it is exciting and pretty important. Does he share this stuff with his buddies, or does he pretty much remain tight-lipped no matter who he's around?



Wife30 said:


> He is so blocked off, quiet, distant.. I don't know. Has counseling worked for any of you all?


I was married to someone similar and, no, counseling didn't help. My husband just did not know what to do with his emotions other than suck them up and carry on. We had a very good MC, but the guy wasn't a miracle worker. Hubs would just go in there and make non-committal, vague responses. MC and I finally agreed that it would be best to just work on me. So, yeah, MC works if both parties are willing to put the effort into it.

I wish I could give you better advice. My own initial reaction to what you have posted is you sound very unhappy. I don't know if your husband would really listen to you if you told him everything you have told us here. Only you can be the judge of that.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Maybe he's distancing himself for this reason.
> 
> Bracing himself from getting hurt.


Maybe... but how is that fair to me... and how do I get him to come around. I can't go another 4 months like this... for him to just realize, What?? that I love him. 

I have to admit, I am beginning not to care. If he wants’ to spend all his time running marathons, and eating sprouts... he is pulling away from me. I have a 3 year old, I work full time - so my weekends and evening are the times I have for family, soccer camp, swim lessons, laundry and dates with my husband. I can't always take on his interest and it feels like if I don't get interested in his things, I just don't see him. I don't want to chase my husband. I would like to be chased a little.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I don't want to chase my husband. I would like to be chased a little.


I think he would be willing to chase you if you were FUN. What he does outside of you is fun, and to be perfectly honest, most men I know want their wives to be interested in their recreational activities. It's like #3 on the list for things that they find attractive about us.

I hate working out. Hate it with a passion. My husband on the other hand is an ex athlete, and therefore loves working out and exercising in general. I joined the gym with my husband a couple of months ago and even got myself a trainer. We go together and HE LOVES IT. Me working out is the sexiest thing to him since sliced bread. 

What I'm saying again is this...if you continue to be stubborn and insist HE make an effort first, it's not going to happen. You need to give him something worth chasing.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Getting a big bonus is something I cannot imagine not sharing with one's spouse, if only because it is exciting and pretty important. Does he share this stuff with his buddies, or does he pretty much remain tight-lipped no matter who he's around?
> 
> I don't know if your husband would really listen to you if you told him everything you have told us here. Only you can be the judge of that.


I have actually said pretty much everything I have said here to him at some point or another. He gets defensive and I am "SILLY"

I don’t' know if he shares with his buddies. He actually doesn't have a lot of friends, and his interactions with family are always "polite" - My family is loud, and in each others business. My brother and I talk everyday. I email my mom once a day and I have about 3 really close girlfriends. 

I sometimes think he just doesn't understand, like the way he was raised... his mom is very "mousy". His dad is a bully. 

Maybe he just can't. But how sad is that. I love him, I want it to work. Just not sure how to do it.

We are still working on the sitting down as a family thing for dinner. But it's better!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

He has to have some endearing qualities, you did marry him after all. I can't imagine they all just disappeared. What attracted you to him from the beginning?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> Ok,
> I am now 5 months pregnant with our 2nd (A little girl).


Ok from someone who used to fight with her own spouse alot I just have to say this. If you two can afford counseling then go for it.. if not... I would like to suggest you both try lovepong. Being pregnant with my own third child.. the stress of constant arguements among other things has apparently lead to me being put on bedrest. If he starts to get grumpy and it starts to make you anxious or upset just back off of him, leave the room, and talk at a later time when things are calmer. So much stress is NOT good for your unborn nor is it good for your body.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I hate working out. Hate it with a passion. My husband on the other hand is an ex athlete, and therefore loves working out and exercising in general. I joined the gym with my husband a couple of months ago and even got myself a trainer. We go together and HE LOVES IT. Me working out is the sexiest thing to him since sliced bread.


Well I am 5 months pregnant right now. I can't really go on a 20mile run with him. - This is what he does for 2-3 hours EVERY Saturday. And then he hits the pool for an hour every Sunday. and the gym after work every day. 

I did join the gym with him. Took some spinning classes with him - we both can't work out... WE have a kid. And I know gyms have day care, but I would then be picking my kid up from daycare to drop him at a gym daycare, to take him home and put him in bed. We both have long commutes. so I don't get home to 5:30 then pick son up - hit the gym for an hour from 6-7, home at 7:15 - bath and bed by 7:30-8pm. I have seen my son now for 30min. And I don't get to communicate with my husband at the gym, we sit side by side with each other on a bike- or a treadmill. Great. huffing a puffing. - Not the quality time I am talking about and where is sitting down to dinner as a family? 

I have done the "Lets hit the gym together" thing. I am still unhappy and he feels like the ball and chain is just following him around.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Maybe... but how is that fair to me... and how do I get him to come around. I can't go another 4 months like this... for him to just realize, What?? that I love him.
> 
> I have to admit, I am beginning not to care. If he wants’ to spend all his time running marathons, and eating sprouts... he is pulling away from me. I have a 3 year old, I work full time - so my weekends and evening are the times I have for family, soccer camp, swim lessons, laundry and dates with my husband. I can't always take on his interest and it feels like if I don't get interested in his things, I just don't see him. I don't want to chase my husband. I would like to be chased a little.


Unfortunately, you may have trained him to not chase you. Based on your tunnel vision in raising your son, I suspect you rejected him quite a lot. That can lead to resentment and withdrawing. Couple that with another on the way, and him flashing back to your previous issues, and he may not think chasing will work. Even though he is handling this poorly, it can be a real issue.

I would suggest that you take a serious look at your schedule and ask whether you really need your three year old son involved in that many activities. Consider paring them back so that you can have true family time that involves you and your husband doing things together with your son.

Finally, you need to be a bit more selfish. Do some things for yourself. You mention not being able to take 2-3 hours without there being guilt. Sorry, that is on you. You need to do that once every other week and force your husband to take your son while you do something fun and productive, whether it is take a class, enjoy a hobby or work out. Work on getting rid of some of your stress.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Well I am 5 months pregnant right now. I can't really go on a 20mile run with him. - This is what he does for 2-3 hours EVERY Saturday. And then he hits the pool for an hour every Sunday. and the gym after work every day.
> 
> I did join the gym with him. Took some spinning classes with him - we both can't work out... WE have a kid. And I know gyms have day care, but I would then be picking my kid up from daycare to drop him at a gym daycare, to take him home and put him in bed. We both have long commutes. so I don't get home to 5:30 then pick son up - hit the gym for an hour from 6-7, home at 7:15 - bath and bed by 7:30-8pm. I have seen my son now for 30min. And I don't get to communicate with my husband at the gym, we sit side by side with each other on a bike- or a treadmill. Great. huffing a puffing. - Not the quality time I am talking about and where is sitting down to dinner as a family?
> 
> I have done the "Lets hit the gym together" thing. I am still unhappy and he feels like the ball and chain is just following him around.


What you describe is a man that thinks himself single and free of any obligations other than himself. He's not home to spend time with his kid either, much less you. If it's this bad, then I'm not sure if there is a solution that would work for both of you other than seperating. He sounds like he's halfway out the door anyway. 

Why bother? What's in it for you? Other than grief? You can be single and be happier. You're doing everything as a single parent anyway.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think it's enough.
> 
> Sex is intimacy for a man. If you give him what he needs he'll return it to you.
> 
> I think some of his other behavior is a direct result of not getting his needs met. He's not willing to meet yours any more than you are willing to meet his. Does that make sense?


I agree. I'm 50 and married 26 years and 1 or 2 times a week is not enough for me!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

And for the record, at the gym we're not talking. He's in one area and I'm in another, except on the day that we swim. That we do side by side, but theres no talking really. We talk mostly on the way to and from the club.

To us, this is quality time, my quality time (the talking) and his shared recreational time all balled up into one. And we don't go every day. Friday or Saturday nights, it's date night. We do dinner or go to the movies. Sunday is a whatever we want to do day.

Ok now I'm probably going to get grief for saying this, and it's generalizing so I'm saying that in advance... 

Women (I find) have a truly hard time balancing kids and husbands and their 'me' time and making them all work. Not all women of course, but most. Men don't have a problem with taking time to themselves and not feeling guilt behind it. But be honest, nobody has died because Daddy was playing golf or whatever. Taking advantage of close friends and play groups and sitter can SAVE marriages. But women want to control everything. They want to be the center of every aspect of their family and they forget before they had the kids, they were a wife and lover.

It's all about balance.


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## Verushkita (Apr 30, 2012)

Do you love him? Do you want to help him better understand you and you him? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with this men because you believe, he is deep down inside the same fantastic man he was back when you fell in love with him? Or is he emotionally gone already?

Most men need sex to feel they are desired, wanted, needed (yes all those adjectives mean the same thing). For most woman, they want to feel cared for, thought of, treated "special".

And yes I understand that some men, want and crave attention and affection more than sex (or chore sex). While some woman are giving everything but the man is withholding sex for whatever reason and they are left to feel insecure and/or undesired, even though they guy does and says all the right things.

Things are not so black and white. And since you guys are not communicating, or open to communication because all the two of you can think is "well this is not working because ______ (fill in the blank with everything you find wrong with him/her)". So lot's of people say, "I'm trying to communicate but it turns bad". Is it because in that communication you are telling him how terrible he is, how he is the problem, how it's his fault you go to bed crying?

If you want to work things out with your man, you should tell him, when you are in a good space mentally and emotionally. Maybe after your son does something cute or your little baby girl kicks when she hears your voice. When you are in a good state of mind, say, I feel really lucky that we are parents. That we have roof over our heads, that we both have jobs, and even though it may not seem like it right now " because we have eachother".

Tell him, humbly, that you see both of you (again, very important to use "we" and "us") going down the wrong path, and you are worried, really worried, and that you feel like you both have make some adjustments before you end up beyond repair. Tell him, you know that you are messy and that if it makes him happy, that you will try your best to pick up after yourself and not leave it for later. Tell him, that maybe you will get a cleaning lady to clean the house once a week or every two weeks. For me, a clean house, makes for a happy "me". Tell him, that you want him to continue to work out, and that maybe you'll find a hobby. Tell him nicely that you will take an hour for yourself to go sit down in a coffehouse and read a book or look through a magazine and he can spend quality time with your son. Do you trust him to be with your son, maybe he feels that you don't? I didn't at first, because I thought I did everything better. Tell him that you are willing to put your 50% and that you want him to put forth his 50%.

Again you have to make your decision and sway your behavior to get what you want, him to feel that you are not the enemy, that you are on his side, that you love and care for him. Or you have to decide that it is beyond repair and let him know that you will not live in a marriage like this. But I think you catch more with honey than vinegar.

It's hard to reconcile when a lot of resentment has built up, but you can do it if you want to. And if it doesn't work out, it's not because you didn't try and give him a fair opportunity to try as well.

crap, I'm at work, and I need to get back to grind. I wish you the best.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> He has to have some endearing qualities, you did marry him after all. I can't imagine they all just disappeared. What attracted you to him from the beginning?


Well he is really smart. Like book geeky smart and it's really cute when he gets on a history channel tangent. He likes books and reading. I like to read so we can talk about books. 

He is REALLY good looking, like other women stare good looking, and Sexy! Always has been, even when he was heavier. 

He wanted a family, and seemed anxious to start one. Though we waited 5 years (My request) and so I thought we wanted the same things.

He is sarcastic in his humor, and makes me laugh - when he is in a GOOD Mood!

He used to love going to dinner, hanging with friends, having a margarita and nachos on a Friday night. 
Now NO CARBS...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Well he is really smart. Like book geeky smart and it's really cute when he gets on a history channel tangent. He likes books and reading. I like to read so we can talk about books.
> 
> He is REALLY good looking, like other women stare good looking, and Sexy! Always has been, even when he was heavier.
> 
> ...


Those qualities sound good enough. So he's changed a bit in what his idea of fun is with the working out and what not, but actually it's a healthier way to live, isn't it? He'll be around longer. :smthumbup:

Where do you fit into what he brings to the table? I've always believed that if you want a 10, you better BE a 10. Bring it and bring it as hard as you expect.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Unfortunately, you may have trained him to not chase you. Based on your tunnel vision in raising your son, I suspect you rejected him quite a lot. That can lead to resentment and withdrawing. Couple that with another on the way, and him flashing back to your previous issues, and he may not think chasing will work. Even though he is handling this poorly, it can be a real issue.
> 
> I agree with TAG on this since I am currently in this exact position. I almost never intiate because I am tired of the rejection.
> 
> I have been actively working on this over the years but the last ditch effort will be made in June and then we'll see what happens!


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree with TAG on this since I am currently in this exact position. I almost never intiate because I am tired of the rejection.
> 
> I have been actively working on this over the years but the last ditch effort will be made in June and then we'll see what happens!


I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise. 

I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST. 

We went to his brother's wedding and had a wonderful time, dancing and such. 

We spent a week at the beach just the 3 of us last April. I didn't want to come home! 

But we can't always be on vacation and 2-3 weeks a year of good, don't make up for the rest of the time. 

I think I need to find time for ME! - to be honest though, I would like some me time at my home, to decorate, paint, read a book. I am never in an empty house. And when I suggest he take the 3 year old to play golf with him, he looks at me like I am silly!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Wife30 said:


> I think I need to find time for ME! - to be honest though, I would like some me time at my home, to decorate, paint, read a book. I am never in an empty house. And when I suggest he take the 3 year old to play golf with him, he looks at me like I am silly!


I've played hooky from work to get some "me" time, to be alone in my own home  We have 3 year old twins and quite frankly I've not had any time to develop a hobby since they were born (I didn't have any from before, I drank, that was my hobby). My hobby now is alone time or quiet time when I can find it. Sometimes my H will tell me to disappear, to go take a nice bath, etc. Kind gesture, but my kids seem to always find me and next thing you know I've got toddler twins splashing around my tub 

Maybe golf isn't the forum for a toddler, but the suggestion that he take your child out and about to give you just a little time to yourself is not too much to ask, IMO.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> What you describe is a man that thinks himself single and free of any obligations other than himself. He's not home to spend time with his kid either, much less you. If it's this bad, then I'm not sure if there is a solution that would work for both of you other than seperating. He sounds like he's halfway out the door anyway.
> 
> Why bother? What's in it for you? Other than grief? You can be single and be happier. You're doing everything as a single parent anyway.


From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes.

Wife30, you have repeated yourself enough times - 3-4 times as if you never said things in the first place - to get the message you aren't going to get any help here......except the suggestion to seek counseling. Yes it helps and can save your marriage. The biggest thing is it doesn't matter if he is grumpy. He has to learn how to treat you and how not to treat you. You have to learn the same. You both have to learn how to prioritize your life, and you both have to learn better communication skills. If he needs anger management, then make him go there too.

As much as anything else, you both need to learn to communicate your ideas of family values and how to get on the same page, or at least find a compromise. For example, you have to stop harping on the differences between your upbringing. You state that like a badge you carry on your breast pocket. What you've done is determined your upbringing was better than his. Maybe it was, but is that really how you want to make your husband feel? You carry that badge through your daily lives, and he resents it. He resents you thinking sitting at the table for dinner is the way he also is supposed to believe. He resents it not because it's some terrible idea but because you use it against him - to change him, to make him feel less than you, inferior somehow. You don't do this intentionally, but you do it just as clearly as the things you've stated he does. 

The badge you carry is not necessarily about the same issue, just that he resents and rejects you wanting to control and change him on whatever the issue, and the result is him being made to feel inadequate or that you think you are better than he is. I will tell you also that his workout regimen just might be a way to stay away from you and how you make him feel. That's one way of lashing out. Then, when you're both together, he lashes out in a different way - his anger and grumpiness.

This is why I say counseling will help because both parties bring something to table and add to, if not initiate, the conflicts even though they don't realize it. You didn't realize you contribute at all. He doesn't realize he contributes either. You're both just reacting to present circumstances and from past ones. You have to learn to let go of all that and accept each other in order to become Mr. & Mrs. Wife30, not the children of your parents. Glean from your upbringing, but become the couple and family of your own creation. Dinner at the table together doesn't have to be when you say or because you say. It can be Sundays only, or it can be Saturdays and Sundays, or it can be never. You both have to decide to appreciate and respect each other's wishes. Mutual respect will make it so much easier to usher in compromise.

I think I may have accomplished making you realize something - that you may also be responsible for your own unhappiness being that you both contribute in ways you don't realize. And that is what counseling will do much better than I am able. However, the last thing you want is for a counselor to come down on you and make you feel as if you are to blame for everything like your husband does. That will serve to make him feel great and validated and all that, but it will make you feel terrible and unwilling to continue therapy sessions. By the same token, you have to determined not allow a counselor to do that to him either. A good counselor never should be that way with either of you. To say that you are right and he is wrong will make you feel like "finally somebody is telling him what I've been saying all the while" but just like in my converse example, it will make him feel awful and unwilling to open up and participate the way you need him to for counseling to be successful. No one should be alienated like that. A good counselor will have much better and much more effective methods for helping you both deal with your problems. So, you might have to shop around and try on a couple marriage counselors before finding a good fit. Don't be afraid to reject them if they make either of you feel uncomfortable. Just keep in mind that counseling is not for either of you to feel jumped on, but that the ultimate goal is for you both to learn how to make your marriage work and work much better.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes


I was taking what she said at face value (which is her perception as doom and gloom)

If its as bad as she describes then yes, why bother? Is it really THAT bad? 

I don't think so. But I'm not married to him either.

ETA: You have to admit the more she said about him the worse sounding he is. My next question was what are his endearing qualities... something is keeping her there.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> I am not sure where in our relationship he decided it was ok to treat me like the enemy, or to speak to me like this.
> When I call him on it he treats me like I am silly.
> 
> ...
> ...


This is not okay. It is, for you, a serious problem and he refuses to take into consideration the fact that his disrespect of you is taking its toll. You need to communicate with him in a way that he understands how bad the situation really is. I bet he doesn't see it from the outside. Unfortunately, ignorance or ego-centrism is not an acceptable excuse for his treatment of you.

Have you guys tried going to counseling? Have you read any books about how to communicate better in marriage? Is he under some kind of stress at work? Is your sex life suffering? Are either of you depressed? Do you both have sufficient time for your individual hobbies and interests? How are things between you when you're not arguing? Have you ruled out the possibility of infidelity?

The fact that you are frequently upset about this and that he refuses to deal with it signifies that it's a serious problem. You're right to be looking for resolution and a way to deal with it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Well he is really smart. Like book geeky smart and it's really cute when he gets on a history channel tangent. He likes books and reading. I like to read so we can talk about books.
> 
> He is sarcastic in his humor, and makes me laugh - when he is in a GOOD Mood!


I had to jump in on this because it really brought back very fond memories for me. My husband was a brainiac. When I first met him, he didn't have cable. He spent his evenings reading. And he had what he termed "dry" humor, but yeah, it was pretty sarcastic at times.

How about this: get a babysitter and start having a date night once or twice a month?

I completely understand your wanting to be a good mother and to be there for your child, particularly since you work full time. But it sounds like hubs is feeling ignored and left out; thus, he spends his time working out.

The gyms I've belonged to have all had childcare for the little ones, and I saw plenty of pregnant women walking on the treadmills. Maybe you should consider that as well. My ex runs marathons. I have no desire to run, or walk 60-plus miles each week to train for such an event. But I loved attending to see my husband cross the finish line.

See, the thing is, you come from a family that enjoys regular interaction. Like my dear friend who is from a big Italian family. Everyone is emailing or talking with one another on the phone every night. They're all yelling and laughing with each other. They are a very tight knit group. Your husband is from the other end of the spectrum.

This boils down to a matter of COMPROMISE. No, you probably will probably never completely understand his being comfortable with aloofness, and he will probably never fully appreciate your family and the way they behave. But try to find some common ground. Just lay down the law and tell him you want to work as a team. You give a little, and he gives a little.

Please don't construe anything I am saying as trivializing the seriousness of your situation. But it sounds to me like your husband has qualities you love. I hope both of you are able to work this out for the best.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You can get a sitter for alone time too. There's no law against that. 

When your husband is gone arrange a play date or send him with the child to the gym daycare. 

Take a day off during the week if you can... send the child to daycare like it's any other day. 

There are ways to squeeze in me time, you just have to be creative.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I read a bit more of the thread and wanted to amend or add to my reply. I'm not suggesting that he's cheating or being nasty to you, just that something's wrong and it's bugging you so communication is needed. When my H began acting this way, I was perplexed, and a number of factors were involved, including infidelity. However, it made me see that the real problem was how we were communicating about our conflicts. He would just lash out at me and then stonewall and I would just be a doormat about it. I wish we'd been able to find a way to fix things before it fell apart; I wish you luck in finding a way to communicate. At the end of the day, you see a problem and he doesn't and you need to find a way to make him see that there is a problem before you give up trying to fix it.

I agree with "johnycomelately" that power dynamics are probably at the root of this; and, with "Almost Gone" that time away from him which allows him to miss you will really help a lot; and with "ten year hubby" that you are being too emotionally reactive, which is making things worse between the two of you (don't assume or jump to conclusions or be needlessly suspicious; just take a step back and observe and wait before you react to him).

Also, dieting and being sore from working out can definitely make people grumpy. Is he more grouchy the days after his workouts?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I agree with Prodical. I would love more date nights. 1 date every 4 or 5 months doesn't do it. When We do go out we "have" to be home before our 8 year old goes to bed. rives me nuts. 

My wife spens so much time taking her to after school programs annd Summer Camps it keep us broke so we can't afford to go out.

I would like attention anything. It may be too way way too late for bring back love.

I think it is time for you to have interests. More than just your child. I want my wife to get a life and a hobby or two. She BORES THE HECK out of me.

I also see pregnant women walking all over. Here, we have hike and bike trails. 

My wife does have qualities that I love. I am out growing her more each day.

Find hobbies yourself and make him miss you a little. At first he may not miss you. He may pretend to be happy that you are doing something. THEN he will want to be around you more. He may give up HIS exercise time. Then again... Nothing may change. Worst case, you will have a life. It is Called a 180. I am sure somebody said it already and I missed it. Become more interesting tham a mother... (not that its a bad thing) that is all my wife is.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I have a five year old and a two year old, both of whom need me/us at bed time. The 2 year old pretty often wakes at about 9 and needs me again. So my husband and I have 2 date nights a week at home. Friday night we watch a DVD together and Saturday night we get take-away, wine and talk. 

I think we'll be able to get back to going out in a couple of years. Till then, this is working well to keep us connected.

I was in a similar situation and it wasn't until I sat down and basically forced my husband to talk to me that I discovered how hurt, resentful and depressed he'd been since our first daughter was born. In return I told him how alone, and resentful I had been. We both apologized. It wasn't until we really cleared the air and understood how badly we had both been feeling that we could begin to repair things. So it's possible that fiddling around with date nights or shared hobbies won't help until you address the underlying issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise.
> 
> I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST.
> 
> ...


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your opinions. My husband and I are having lunch today so I plan to start another conversation there.

I never once said I didn't have hobbies, they just are more around my house, reading, hanging w/friends and family and work. I have exciting work. I just can't flitter off to the gym every day. I have a 3 year old, who already spends a good amount of time in child care and maybe husbands don't understand that often brings guilt to moms. (And maybe that’s on me, but I feel like I had the child, I should spend time with him) 

It's not as commonly accepted for us. At work, as a professionals, being pregnant is like having the plague. They take projects from you, worried you won't return after maternity. They have to be more accommodating because you have doctor visits, and pre-school plays that need attending too. 

Men seem to have it easier, the expectation to balance it all is not there, That is what your wife is for right? 

I wouldn't mind putting the mommy stick down now and then, but my husband doesn't make sure he has shoes that fit, coats for the cold, lunches for school, or play dates for socialization. Add to that a full time work load, managing the household budget, paying the bills, and housework - there is a lot on my plate. A lot to keep in mind. Then there are Stay at Home Mom's that make comments about how when they had children they made the decision that they "wanted to raise them". Like I am not raising my son because I work or choose to work. 

So I already have outside influence on both sides of the argument that don’t agree with how I manage my life. My husband, my home should be my safe haven. My support, not another battle field. 

Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate. 

It takes a lot to keep a household running. No matter if you work or stay home – It’s a lot of work, more than one person can handle. 

My husband and I do date nights and I don’t' "require us to be home before little man is in bed" we actually try to plan to get home after, to skirt the bed time routine. - And I enjoy decorating our home, reading, spending time with girlfriends, and family. – those are my hobbies and YES I need to make more time for them. I am not interested in spending 10-12 hours away from my family each week at the gym. I did, before pregnancy take a spin class once a week. Right now I can’t… I have been ordered not to by my doctor. I walk at lunch with girlfriends at work, and stay active with a 3 year old. 

I just want him to RESPECT me. Treat me as an equal. Stop yelling at me over a bowl of cereal - because to be honest, I contribute more than my fair share, and even if I did leave the bowl in the sink so what. HELP your working wife out and rinse it. Don't berate her about it. I don't do that sort of thing to him - a bowl of cereal in the sink would not even bother me. (This is where I am labeled messy) 

I pay for a maid service to come 2 times a month, because the MAN has never cleaned a toilet in his life, and I can’t find time for myself these days let alone his john! 

Then with sex – It’s once or twice a week, when I say “hey honey want to – wink wink” – This is the only time I am told that I am wonderful, sexy, or pretty.
But the complements are never – Smart, funny, or thank you for hosting my mother’s 60th birthday party and cooking mini crab cakes for her and 40 of her closest friends, while herding a 3 year old. THEN on my 30th birthday – instead of taking me out, he went out the day of and got me a potted plant and a card, said love you and went to the D*MN GYM. 

Don’t get me wrong, I love him. I care for him, he is my husband, the father of my children, smart, funny and charismatic. But the resentment is there. – Maybe I am young, naive or something… and maybe this is JUST WHAT MARRIAGE IS. But I am drowning. I can’t keep fighting and when separation sounds nice simply because I know I would get every other weekend to myself something is wrong. 

What is so bad about wanting to come home to a peaceful evening with your family. Why can’t that be enough for him sometimes. He has needs, well so do I. I NEED HIM TO BE HOME and enjoy being home. 

Ok it's official I am angry. Maybe I am stubborn, but he needs to give a little. I read over this thread last night. I think some of the advice is very valid... and I am going to try and incorporate it. I am not a saint. I may have "declined sex" before, I may "decline sex" again. I may leave dishes in the sink, and enjoy a bag of potato chips. I might not like his father, and worry he will turn into his father. Those are things I need to work on. BUT I sure as hell support him, raise his children, bring in my share of the income, try to build a nice home. 

To be honest, YOU CAN"T ALWAYS DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! especially when you have kids. You need to engage, be in the room, and make peace with the decision you made to be a father/mother. Otherwise what is the point, we should just ship the little ones off to a boarding school so we can have ME time. 

My son is my ME time. My husband is my ME time - but to him WE are an obligation. NOT FUN as A bit much stated. 

Well I think we are fun and I am tired of being told otherwise.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

River1977 said:


> From smother him with your coochie to just give up and don't bother? Yikes.
> 
> Wife30, you have repeated yourself enough times - 3-4 times as if you never said things in the first place - to get the message you aren't going to get any help here......except the suggestion to seek counseling. Yes it helps and can save your marriage. The biggest thing is it doesn't matter if he is grumpy. He has to learn how to treat you and how not to treat you. You have to learn the same. You both have to learn how to prioritize your life, and you both have to learn better communication skills. If he needs anger management, then make him go there too.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I normally cringe when I see Rivers1977 name on a post, and have found very little in common with any of the attitudes expressed, but THIS, THIS is golden, it is something that could have been written by me, as it expressed nearly all the thoughts I had already had while reading this thread!

I can sort of piece together a timeline of this relationship, and see where it went wrong. 

Guy and girl enter relationship, all goes well, he wants kids, she wants him to wait, he accepts and is ok with it for a while. They enjoy their time together, his clock ticks a bit louder and a few cracks appear, she has baby number one and he is de-prioritised and rebuffed on any and all advances for an extended period, builds up his resentment, and decides to focus on himself. He is rallying himself for an exit from the marriage and child number 2 enters the picture. He remembers the hard times after number one but is also torn by a sense of duty and doing what is right by the family....."if only maybe" is his mantra now. He is looking for signs that things may go back, but is not holding much hope, thus the constant grumpy.

Realize that this is written from the masculine viewpoint and is not intended to direct blame at Wife30. 

I am sure there are pressures that he put forward to create resentment from her, just as much as vice-versa, as River1977 stated.

They need to change their dynamic. Set aside a time to behave like they are both on holiday while still at home, time for them to interact in positive ways again, ACCEPT each other's foibles and adapt their thinking to work WITH each other instead of against. Be more accommodating of each other's every whim. It may not fix everything but it will be a great start.

2c rant complete.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> I am actually hearing this advice. I do feel like maybe it's me some - if not majority. Even though my friends and mother say otherwise.
> 
> I do notice if we "get out of town" with or without the kid, we are better. I relax, he eats vacation style, and doesn't exercise so much. We have fun. We went camping with friends, took a hike, HAD A BLAST.
> 
> ...


That is silly


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate. <<

It's clear you resent him.

And, it's also clear you resent your own role in the marriage.

I would echo River77's post to get to counseling.

He's not letting your resentment run him around - that's a good thing. But, there are compromises that committed partners can make with each other.

I would read the His Needs Her Needs book.

And - be thankful he's not a doormat.

You'd have many worse issues if he was.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Mephisto said:


> Guy and girl enter relationship, all goes well, he wants kids, she wants him to wait, he accepts and is ok with it for a while. They enjoy their time together, his clock ticks a bit louder and a few cracks appear, she has baby number one and he is de-prioritised and rebuffed on any and all advances for an extended period, builds up his resentment, and decides to focus on himself. He is rallying himself for an exit from the marriage and child number 2 enters the picture. He remembers the hard times after number one but is also torn by a sense of duty and doing what is right by the family....."if only maybe" is his mantra now. He is looking for signs that things may go back, but is not holding much hope, thus the constant grumpy.


This makes sense, except - Yes I made him wait for 5 years to have children. I was only 22 when we got married. He was still finishing his masters, we needed that time before we took on the responsibility. I didn't deny him sex EVERY time. We have had sex regularly throughout our marriage at least 1 to 2 times a week. At times 4-5 times a week. 

I have turned him down. But never consistently. And I am sorry this argument is insulting to my husband. His masculinity is in question because the woman who agreed to marry him, live with him, visits his grandmother with him, decides one night she is not in the mood. WHY??? It does not have ANYTHING to do with him. I may have been tired, sick, or just simply interested in a book. I do not find him any less sexy or desirable. Just at that particular moment in time something else is on my mind. - He should be enough of a MAN to understand that he is still desired. I still come on to him. We still HAVE sex. If I didn't "want" him - we wouldn't

We did take 6 weeks off right after the baby. Doctor's orders! But as soon as the Dr. said go we went! 
Then 3 years pass. I am content with one child. He is not. It took us longer to conceive the second- because of his heavy work out regime. Doctor even said, got to get off the bike and rest your boys.... And as soon as he did we were pregnant. 

Again I was fine with just one. I even told him this. 
We have friends - They have 3 kids under 3. She made the comment that she wanted the 3rd child because she did not feel her family was complete. I came home that night, we were trying for our second, and nothing was happening and I said to him you know I am happy we are trying, another child would be wonderful, but I do feel I have a complete family and if it doesn't work out - The three of us are great just as we are. He did not agree, and suggest adoption if we couldn't have another. 

So we powered on, tried harder, and I am happy for it - but how am I to blame for it? 

If he was even considering an exit why would he have pushed so hard for the second child?
THAT makes no sense to me. Why is he angry now, I am literally working my butt off to give him everything he tells me he wants.


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## cashius (May 4, 2012)

Clearly there is resentment, would you have some resentment if you were in her shoes. she has resentment towards him to a certain degree and I'm pretty sure he has resentment towards you when you bring up what clearly seems to be a reoccuring fight or conversation about what isn't being met in the marriage.

Wife30- honestly I think that a different approach is needed her to get through to your husband. counciling might be the way, at least try to persuade him to just give it a try just couple times so that way he doesn't need to make it seem like a long term committment. these marriage councelors have a nack for opening up communication and effective one at that.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That is silly


Tiger Woods learned to play golf at 2. My 3 year old can hit the ball. Take the kid to the driving range. HOW IS THIS SILLY? He has golf clubs, and his Granddad takes him to the course all the time!


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife has our daughter in a private school. She is probably a grade level above others her age. So she has lots and lots of homework. I would like her in the school we are zoned for so she can be in school with neighbor friends. She gets upset because I want to enjoy the outside "play time" instead of the homework which is too much. She is only 8 years old. 2 hours of homework is way too much.

Wife30!... It may be hard but try to look at it through his point of view.

Maybe talk about "goals" 

Don't talk about anything he is doing wrong. Focus on a solution. I am going through a rough patch now. I do some of the exact same things as your husband. I don't always view it through the eyes of my wife. I should though.

Find commen goals and let him be part of it whithout tricking him. My wife ended up with a new CRV because she tricked me into thinking it was my idea. So now she drives the new car, while I drive th 99 sentra. No resentment...lol


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## cashius (May 4, 2012)

if you look at the entire thread, we haven't really heard about what he brings to the table? what does he do to make him good enough for you?

frankly your husband just needs to put more work in plain and simple from what you have told us, I don't feel like he does enough.. 

the only way this could be resolved is through better communication and not the kinda of communication you don't do this or you don't do that.. leads into further resentment i feel like. 

also his willingness to listen and be openminded is a huge thing in effective communication otherwise it just falls on deaf ears.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I know I blame my wife for a lot of things, even though I have my part in it. Almost like I try to invent a reason to fight.

What I want is for my wife to fight back and stand up for herself. I want for her to tell me what she expects from me.

Recently, I joined a sculling/rowing club. The last few time the athletic director rowed in the scull with me and two other people. He tore me up to the point I almost didn't want to go back. I was cursing him inside. I went back and I was better for it. I just hated it at the time.

He may not like what you want and expect from him. He has to hear it. He may get defensive. I know that I would and I may walk out of the room to pout. It could start a bigger fight. There is so much that I don't say, and I know my wife has things she doesn't say. The silence is the worst part.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> I am literally working my butt off to give him everything he tells me he wants.


This is a problem. Giving someone everything they want just compounds the problem and creates more issues. And it can actually make them grumpier because now you've become responsible for their happiness and they no longer are capable of doing it for themselves. You've likely enabled him.

Your best bet would be to back off and focus on making YOU happy and worrying less about what's going on with him. It will be hard to do but what other alternative do you have? If he isn't interested in making himself happy you can't do it for him.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Already Gone said:


> He may not like what you want and expect from him. He has to hear it. He may get defensive. I know that I would and I may walk out of the room to pout. It could start a bigger fight. There is so much that I don't say, and I know my wife has things she doesn't say. The silence is the worst part.


This makes perfect sense to me. We had a big fight two weeks ago because furniture needed to be moved around. Our son needed to be moved upstairs, the office down stairs and the guest bedroom cleaned out to accommodate the new nursery furniture. HE WAS SO GRUMPY about it. My brother came over to help, and I sorted and boxed. And we had a neighborhood yard sale - so I set up for that to get rid of stuff. Full argument, in front of my brother when we first got started. He didn’t' want to move his office. But the room downstairs was too small for our son's new bed. Changes needed to be made. After with all three rooms organized, he seemed happy - he even said, "I really didn't want to do this, but I feel like we were really productive this weekend thanks!" Like he was happy I pushed him into it. He seemed HAPPY about the change. He moved some work out gear into the garage, went out and bought a new work bench, Made it his space. But it was like pulling teeth to get him on board. I just don't get WHY it has to be that way? I shouldn't need to get tough to get him to do something for our family! - He is happy now but it made it hard and emotional for me.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Wife30, you are angry. I am angry in my marriage. It is cancer to the marriage relationship and to yourself. First you need to understand the source of your anger and your husbands. You note that you cannot understand why one rejection might hurt him - he should be more of a man about it. Many men are hurt by this rejection. You not understanding how it can hurt and him not understanding that it was not a rejection of him is a breakthrough that can be won with just a little knowledge on both parts - reading some marriage books together (maybe his needs/her needs - I have not read it) can provide insight. 5 love languages while somewhat trite and incomplete, is very good for the big picture realization that people think differently and interpret what love means differently (i.e., for him, you wanting him may be the biggest marker of your love for him, while for you, it may be his willingness to spend quality time together).

Also, you seem resentful of your H's exercise. I get like 4 to 6 hour a sleep at night and still wake up early with the kids (45 minutes earlier than I'd otherwise have to), and make breakfast and pack lunches, so my W can run or go to yoga 3-5 days a week. I only resent that she expects it. I exercise when everyone is sleeping, if I have time.

I do not know what the answer is, but knowing the problem and trying to just focus on being happy otherwise is really helpful. Also, I've resigned myself to not raising my voice (to the kids or W), that helps too.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

SprucHub said:


> I do not know what the answer is, but knowing the problem and trying to just focus on being happy otherwise is really helpful. Also, I've resigned myself to not raising my voice (to the kids or W), that helps too.


I would like to get where he does not raise his voice. I think that's part of it. His tone. That is a good resolve. 

I had lunch with him today, of course I chickened out - I didn't really talk to him. But - He did say that our neighbor texted him and wanted to know if he wanted to go for a bike ride Saturday evening, on top of his mid-day run. 

I didn't say no - BUT I didn't say "I don't care" - My typical response. 

I said well we are really busy this weekend, we have a birthday party and soccer on Saturday and Mother's day with his mom, my mom, and son's birthday on Sunday. That I would prefer he didn't and hung around to help get the house picked up and stuff. - He said ok. But I could tell it's not what he wanted. I am going to try and not care so much that it's not exactly what he wants. He needs to help prep for his mom and sister to come over. I also asked him what he planned for his mother for mother's day. Typically I do this for him. So I may not have "talked" to him... I didn't just let him get his way. I am thinking that might be my problem. I say "I don't care" when I actually do.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Holy Resentment Batman!

You guys need to get into counseling like YESTERDAY!

Seems like he needs to up his game somewhat but I can almost bet he has no idea about how strong and deep this current is running!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Full argument, in front of my brother when we first got started. He didn’t' want to move his office. But the room downstairs was too small for our son's new bed. Changes needed to be made. After with all three rooms organized, he seemed happy - he even said, "I really didn't want to do this, but I feel like we were really productive this weekend thanks!" ... But it was like pulling teeth to get him on board. I just don't get WHY it has to be that way? I shouldn't need to get tough to get him to do something for our family! - He is happy now but it made it hard and emotional for me.


I don't want to come across in an offensive manner, and speaking via cyberspace often leads to misunderstandings, particularly because you are reading words without hearing the nuance in a person's voice or seeing their expressions.

People are doing their best here to give you their perspective and some advice. You can choose what to take and leave the rest. But for every post where someone makes a suggestion, you come back with an argument, in great detail, as to how something suggested has already been tried, how we don't understand what it is you are asking. Hey, maybe I'm just a dumb blonde and actually don't get it.

But a friend of mine used to tell me, "If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question."

You sound angry and it sounds like you are a take-charge sort of person. Taking charge is not a bad trait by any means. It certainly seems that your husband is off in his own world, doing his thing, and doesn't take kindly to change; even if the change works out for his own good. Some people are resistant to change.

Here's the bottom line of what I'm getting:

You and hubs are having the same fight over and over.
You fight frequently.
He's grumpy.
You are stressed out and sick of him not pulling his weight.
You want him to join in with you and your child and be a contributing member within the family unit.
He gets ticked off about stuff like leaving a bowl of cereal and milk in the sink.
You get ticked off that his is a grouch and spending hours in the gym.

So, that's my take on it. Maybe you two have communication styles that don't mesh. Maybe the two of you just aren't all that happy with each other. I think I came up with a fairly decent synopsis of what you are conveying.

I'm not here to judge you, find fault with one party or the other; I can only make suggestions from where I sit. And from where I sit I don't know you or your husband from jack.

As to why your man isn't participating in the family unit. I don't know. You are married to him. If you don't know, then come right out and be blunt with him. Tell him how you feel. If he dismisses you or tells you he thinks you're being "silly," at least you can likely conclude he doesn't have much respect for your opinion(s). 

Counseling is the only thing I can think of. If he won't go, you might want to give it a try. Sorry if we aren't coming up with answers you feel you need.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I am thinking that might be my problem. I say "I don't care" when I actually do.


If you give the green light when you really don't want to, then you're adding to the problem. You send mixed signals.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Holy Resentment Batman!
> 
> You guys need to get into counseling like YESTERDAY!


:iagree: :iagree:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> Tiger Woods learned to play golf at 2. My 3 year old can hit the ball. Take the kid to the driving range. HOW IS THIS SILLY? He has golf clubs, and his Granddad takes him to the course all the time!


See how angry you are?

What if you were reading your response without being in the weeds?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I have turned him down. But never consistently. And I am sorry this argument is insulting to my husband. His masculinity is in question because the woman who agreed to marry him, live with him, visits his grandmother with him, decides one night she is not in the mood. WHY??? It does not have ANYTHING to do with him. I may have been tired, sick, or just simply interested in a book. I do not find him any less sexy or desirable. Just at that particular moment in time something else is on my mind. - *He should be enough of a MAN to understand that he is still desired. *I still come on to him. We still HAVE sex. If I didn't "want" him - we wouldn't


How does this square with your earlier admission that you got tunnel vision after the birth of your son. Here, you are the perfect wife, you earlier you admit to focusing on your son and neglecting your husband. How does that fit.

As to the bold above, you have a lot to learn about men. Do you just assume they have no feelings?

Get to counseling, because you both have some real issues to work out.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Life actually is difficult.

It's sad more people don't understand that.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I have turned him down. But never consistently. And I am sorry this argument is insulting to my husband. His masculinity is in question because the woman who agreed to marry him, live with him, visits his grandmother with him, decides one night she is not in the mood. WHY??? It does not have ANYTHING to do with him. I may have been tired, sick, *or just simply interested in a book.* I do not find him any less sexy or desirable. Just at that particular moment in time something else is on my mind. - He should be enough of a MAN to understand that he is still desired. I still come on to him. We still HAVE sex. If I didn't "want" him - we wouldn't


Sorry, but I have to address this again. Think about the bold and how that made your husband feel. You are more interested in a book than having sex with him. Then think about how angry you are because his work outs are more important than spending time with you. Why do you expect his reaction to be different?

This is not to say he is perfect or with out fault in this relationship. But your posts are getting more and more defensive and your faults are getting smaller and less significant. You are the one posting, so you will get advice on how to change you. You can't change your husband and we certainly can't. But his faults don't absolve you of your responsbility to clean up your side of the street. 

With all of that, get to counseling. You both need it.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I have to agree with TAG... Even if my wife initiates sex 3 times in a row. If the next time, I initiate the sex and she refuses, It really hurts. Even if I am not in the mood I will still pleasure her orally first. My tool usually works but on a moments notice? Not always. So When I want the love/sex I really want it. One rejection out of 4 or so? I only remember the rejected time. That is me though. Then I think in my head that my wife doesn't desire me and she has just enough sex to make me happy. I'll admit that my mind plays tricks on me. I do give my wife a hard time.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> How does this square with your earlier admission that you got tunnel vision after the birth of your son. Here, you are the perfect wife, you earlier you admit to focusing on your son and neglecting your husband. How does that fit.
> 
> As to the bold above, you have a lot to learn about men. Do you just assume they have no feelings?
> 
> Get to counseling, because you both have some real issues to work out.



I got tunnel vision, I stoped calling to say hi during the day. I only planned "Kid Friendly" events - I never wanted to go out without my son - for about the 1st 9months of his life. I really only talked about baby stuff. I got the same way around our wedding, it got to where we only talked about wedding prep. 

I didn't stop sleeping with him! Nor did I ever say I did. You guys assumed that. And it was over 2 years ago. I corrected the problem, we started date night. I call him, text him, but to be honest it's one sided. I do these things. He just sits around and waits for me to ask him to lunch. How Exactly is that rejection? 

And I don't READ for 3 hours every night. I don't even read every night. I NEVER said I am perfect - but sometimes a girl just isn't in the mood. Sometimes a guy isn't. He has turned me down before and I am sure he will again! But I didnt give up and stop trying. The sex argument just doesn't hold up. 

If someone is with you, sleeping with you regularly... maybe not 5 times a week, but regularly... then they find you sexy. You are disired. He doesn't even try anymore but I still know he wants me because AGAIN WE HAVE SEX REGULARLY. 

- And lets assume your right, he feels regected from 3 years ago. He has talked to me about it. I try and correct the behavior. Isn't the continued punishment on him - I am not withholding - I tell him he is sexy... I put on the cute outfits. What's the deal NOW. - and it doesn't matter, because all that happens when you say - "well I don't think your fun anymore because we don't have sex enough" - All this does is tell your wife she is just there to get you off. WHAT about the other freaking 23hours in the day.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> I don't want to come across in an offensive manner, and speaking via cyberspace often leads to misunderstandings, particularly because you are reading words without hearing the nuance in a person's voice or seeing their expressions.
> 
> People are doing their best here to give you their perspective and some advice. You can choose what to take and leave the rest. But for every post where someone makes a suggestion, you come back with an argument, in great detail, as to how something suggested has already been tried, how we don't understand what it is you are asking. Hey, maybe I'm just a dumb blonde and actually don't get it.
> 
> ...


Prodigal, I agree - I actually think a lot of the advise is good. I just don't agree with the you reject sex so he is grumpy advice. I completely see where I may have made him feel bad comparing our upbringings and thinking mine was better. I made a mental note NOT to do that. 

I need to work on me. It's not on him to make me happy! And I need to be upfront and honest with him. 

But I never said I didn't appreciate the advice or that I didn't hear it. - I just didn't take all of it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I got tunnel vision, I stoped calling to say hi during the day. I only planned "Kid Friendly" events - I never wanted to go out without my son - for about the 1st 9months of his life. I really only talked about baby stuff. I got the same way around our wedding, it got to where we only talked about wedding prep.
> 
> I didn't stop sleeping with him! Nor did I ever say I did. You guys assumed that. And it was over 2 years ago. I corrected the problem, we started date night. I call him, text him, but to be honest it's one sided. I do these things. He just sits around and waits for me to ask him to lunch. How Exactly is that rejection?
> 
> ...


When you go to counseling, I gently suggest you drop the attitude. I understand your are hurt by his behavior. What is troubling is your unwillingness to believe that you actually could hurt your husband by your behavior, or that he should not just get over it. I suspect this comes out lound and clear in your dealings with him. Go into counseling with an open mind that both of you will be expected to work on things. I do wish you luck.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Wife30...I am about to write a thread from my wife's point of view, how she views our relationship. I think she may view mw as an a$$hole. What would your husband say about you?


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> When you go to counseling, I gently suggest you drop the attitude. I understand your are hurt by his behavior. What is troubling is your unwillingness to believe that you actually could hurt your husband by your behavior, or that he should not just get over it. I suspect this comes out lound and clear in your dealings with him. Go into counseling with an open mind that both of you will be expected to work on things. I do wish you luck.


Let me ask you a question. Well if a wife is tired! SICK! or just wants a moment in her own skin. She is now harming her husband, because she doesn't drop all the feelings she is having at that exact moment to adopt his feelings, this is a deal breaker for you? It hurts your feelings when your wife says "not tonight honey" ?

I could see if I she said YUCK, gross, NOT you. 

This is not attitude. I promise I am truly trying to wrap my head around this argument. 

I agree I have probably hurt him, but not by saying "not tonight honey - I am tired" 

And if that did hurt him, how do I fix that? I am going to have times in life where I don't feel like it. Am I supposed to just perform anyway, like a pet? 

If he gets offended every time I am not in the mood we will never stop having the same fight. Doesn't he have to own those feelings? 

I own my feelings of resentment. I know he deserves a hobby and time on his own. I know some of that is me but if you get upset because your wife says no (Sometimes) isn't that you?

I go and watch him run his races. I watch the kid so he can work out. I get grumpy about it... but I don't YELL AT HIM OVER A BOWL OF CEREAL. I don't yell at him at all. When I try and talk to him - honestly openly, I get told I am being silly. 

Silly! But when he said he didn't feel like I paid him any attention any more - 2 years ago. I said ok - well lets plan time JUST US once a week - and we did date night every Friday night. 

So I heard him. But if I have issues I am silly.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think you let things go for so long, you've internalized them to the point where it's hurting you. You're extremely angry. I get that, but you have to own the fact that during some (if not most) times rather than going along with his program you cared and told him you didn't. You play all nice and get mad because he runs over you like a mack truck. That's not on HIM that's on YOU.

Neither of you know how to communicate. You bottle it until you blow and he just blows at every little thing. Take the first steps to fixing this. Make an appointment with a counselor. At this point only a 3rd party can truly help you both through this bitterness.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

The way this is supposed to work it that the overall commitment, feeling and belief that one is loved will carry them through the short term trauma of being turned down. Somewhere between caring for a small child and birthing the next one this is getting short circuited. Yes, your husband needs to own his feelings. It looks like he has some things to work through. Your job is to respect him and support him and try to stay focused on the positive. This might include not complaining to outside persons who will certainly take you side against him


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Wife30...I know it is hard to believe it is all about sex. Maybe it isn't about sex at all. It is something else. 

Try something for me...

Text your husbandand say something (non-sexual) I am a little stressed... I am thinking of you. see you later


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> Let me ask you a question. Well if a wife is tired! SICK! or just wants a moment in her own skin. She is now harming her husband, because she doesn't drop all the feelings she is having at that exact moment to adopt his feelings, this is a deal breaker for you? It hurts your feelings when your wife says "not tonight honey" ?
> 
> I could see if I she said YUCK, gross, NOT you.
> 
> ...


Do you see the connection between this much pent up hostility and the fact that you're fighting all the time?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

TAG said "When you go to counseling, I gently suggest you drop the attitude. I understand your are hurt by his behavior. What is troubling is your unwillingness to believe that you actually could hurt your husband by your behavior, or that he should not just get over it. I suspect this comes out lound and clear in your dealings with him. Go into counseling with an open mind that both of you will be expected to work on things. I do wish you luck"

Have to agree here. as I said, there's also a whole lot of resentment built up in Wife. I'm not saying it's all unjustified but it hasn't been dealt with or addressed. 

Wife said "I agree I have probably hurt him, but not by saying "not tonight honey - I am tired" 

PROBABLY hurt him???? Seriously?? You've done something to him and I know all of it isn't related to a few "not tonights honey". That's usually where it starts.

Wife also said "But when he said he didn't feel like I paid him any attention any more - 2 years ago. I said ok - well lets plan time JUST US once a week - and we did date night every Friday night"

That's a start but again, I would GUESS (and that's all we're doing here because we aren't professionals) that while this may have helped, he's still got something deep inside that he can't let go of.

Just my 2 cents. He is also a part of the troubles. I don't see anyone denying that. as I and others have said, get to counseling!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Already Gone said:


> Wife30...I know it is hard to believe it is all about sex. Maybe it isn't about sex at all. It is something else.
> 
> Try something for me...
> 
> Text your husbandand say something (non-sexual) I am a little stressed... I am thinking of you. see you later


If she sends that text, he may respond, "Was this meant for me?"


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> Let me ask you a question. Well if a wife is tired! SICK! or just wants a moment in her own skin. She is now harming her husband, because she doesn't drop all the feelings she is having at that exact moment to adopt his feelings, this is a deal breaker for you? It hurts your feelings when your wife says "not tonight honey" ?
> 
> I could see if I she said YUCK, gross, NOT you.
> 
> ...


Not at all. Your issues are very real. You have legitimate issues with your husband. But neither I nor you can change your husband. You can only change yourself. Your husband is not posting here, you are. I can only give thoughts and advice to you on ways that you can change. You can think about that advice, or you can get defensive and point out all the reasons we are wrong and you are correct. So how is that working for you?

So my question is now what do you want from us? Do you want us to just nod and pat you on the back and shake our head over what a rough life you have. I suppose we could, but that is not terribly helpful. I have tried to point out some areas where you can change to improve the dynamic. I have also urged counseling for both of you. Finally, I have noted that your posts are very dismissive of your husbands feelings. Your husband wants you to take the first step. You want him to do that. It seems like a stand off, so your choice is to keep up this dynamic or take a chance. I do hope this works for you.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

One question, and I know it shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does. 

How is your weight?

Sometimes this is an area that builds resentment from your partner as well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wife30,
Clearly you want to improve your marriage and willing to work at it. That is more than half (your part) of the puzzle. 

You would not have married him if he acted this way at the start. Maybe I missed it but one big piece of this puzzle is timing. When did he change and why do you believe that happened. 

He is chronically angry/tense despite a Lot of exercise. Why? 

Do you realize that the two of you have managed to give you total control of sexual frequency? Have you thought about what that means?

He makes it as clear as he possibly can how much he feels loved and therefore responds in kind when you initiate. The 1-2 times a week you have sex are likely the peak of his week. 

Before proceeding: I am NOT being critical of you. I am describing a very extreme dynamic. Why does he feel totally powerless in this critical aspect of your marriage?

You mention in passing a period where you rejected him a lot. I chuckled when I read that. This is like the tourist maps. The NY one has manhattan taking up half the surface area, the whole rest of the US is in the other half. Your map is of San Fran, his of NY. 

Imagine this, you approach him for a hug and as you reach out for him you say "I love you". And he gently pushes you away and says nothing. Repeat that 3-4 times a week. How would you feel?

Obviously you didn't do any of this deliberately. Just as obvious to me, he feels so emasculated in this area he relies on you and secretly hopes each day you will initiate. 

This is not easily fixable. You cannot fix it simply via (to be continued)


UOTE=Wife30;736597]Thanks everyone for your opinions. My husband and I are having lunch today so I plan to start another conversation there.

I never once said I didn't have hobbies, they just are more around my house, reading, hanging w/friends and family and work. I have exciting work. I just can't flitter off to the gym every day. I have a 3 year old, who already spends a good amount of time in child care and maybe husbands don't understand that often brings guilt to moms. (And maybe that’s on me, but I feel like I had the child, I should spend time with him) 

It's not as commonly accepted for us. At work, as a professionals, being pregnant is like having the plague. They take projects from you, worried you won't return after maternity. They have to be more accommodating because you have doctor visits, and pre-school plays that need attending too. 

Men seem to have it easier, the expectation to balance it all is not there, That is what your wife is for right? 

I wouldn't mind putting the mommy stick down now and then, but my husband doesn't make sure he has shoes that fit, coats for the cold, lunches for school, or play dates for socialization. Add to that a full time work load, managing the household budget, paying the bills, and housework - there is a lot on my plate. A lot to keep in mind. Then there are Stay at Home Mom's that make comments about how when they had children they made the decision that they "wanted to raise them". Like I am not raising my son because I work or choose to work. 

So I already have outside influence on both sides of the argument that don’t agree with how I manage my life. My husband, my home should be my safe haven. My support, not another battle field. 

Then you have my husband, who has a completely open schedule. He can work from home, work at night, work from wherever there is an internet connection really. He spends 10-12 hours a week on hobbies he enjoys (The gym). He NEVER plans a dinner, NEVER plans a vacation, NEVER plans a birthday party, NEVER plans a date. He does do the dishes, take the trash out, and shows up for soccer practice to cheer his son on. He doesn’t drink excessively, cheat, or hit. He does LIE and berate. 

It takes a lot to keep a household running. No matter if you work or stay home – It’s a lot of work, more than one person can handle. 

My husband and I do date nights and I don’t' "require us to be home before little man is in bed" we actually try to plan to get home after, to skirt the bed time routine. - And I enjoy decorating our home, reading, spending time with girlfriends, and family. – those are my hobbies and YES I need to make more time for them. I am not interested in spending 10-12 hours away from my family each week at the gym. I did, before pregnancy take a spin class once a week. Right now I can’t… I have been ordered not to by my doctor. I walk at lunch with girlfriends at work, and stay active with a 3 year old. 

I just want him to RESPECT me. Treat me as an equal. Stop yelling at me over a bowl of cereal - because to be honest, I contribute more than my fair share, and even if I did leave the bowl in the sink so what. HELP your working wife out and rinse it. Don't berate her about it. I don't do that sort of thing to him - a bowl of cereal in the sink would not even bother me. (This is where I am labeled messy) 

I pay for a maid service to come 2 times a month, because the MAN has never cleaned a toilet in his life, and I can’t find time for myself these days let alone his john! 

Then with sex – It’s once or twice a week, when I say “hey honey want to – wink wink” – This is the only time I am told that I am wonderful, sexy, or pretty.
But the complements are never – Smart, funny, or thank you for hosting my mother’s 60th birthday party and cooking mini crab cakes for her and 40 of her closest friends, while herding a 3 year old. THEN on my 30th birthday – instead of taking me out, he went out the day of and got me a potted plant and a card, said love you and went to the D*MN GYM. 

Don’t get me wrong, I love him. I care for him, he is my husband, the father of my children, smart, funny and charismatic. But the resentment is there. – Maybe I am young, naive or something… and maybe this is JUST WHAT MARRIAGE IS. But I am drowning. I can’t keep fighting and when separation sounds nice simply because I know I would get every other weekend to myself something is wrong. 

What is so bad about wanting to come home to a peaceful evening with your family. Why can’t that be enough for him sometimes. He has needs, well so do I. I NEED HIM TO BE HOME and enjoy being home. 

Ok it's official I am angry. Maybe I am stubborn, but he needs to give a little. I read over this thread last night. I think some of the advice is very valid... and I am going to try and incorporate it. I am not a saint. I may have "declined sex" before, I may "decline sex" again. I may leave dishes in the sink, and enjoy a bag of potato chips. I might not like his father, and worry he will turn into his father. Those are things I need to work on. BUT I sure as hell support him, raise his children, bring in my share of the income, try to build a nice home. 

To be honest, YOU CAN"T ALWAYS DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! especially when you have kids. You need to engage, be in the room, and make peace with the decision you made to be a father/mother. Otherwise what is the point, we should just ship the little ones off to a boarding school so we can have ME time. 

My son is my ME time. My husband is my ME time - but to him WE are an obligation. NOT FUN as A bit much stated. 

Well I think we are fun and I am tired of being told otherwise.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

When my wife and I decided to have a child, I was the one that pushed her. She always told that "one day we will" So I asked her to marry me and it was still "one day when we are both ready" Then we were getting to the point where we were getting too old so she agreed to try to get pregant.

We got pregnant right away and when our daughter came, She had the hardest time. I should have listened to her when she said that she wasn't ready. i would of found somebody way before we even got married.

Well she put more energy into being mom. she and I decided that she shouls be a SAHM. so here comes all the Gymboree, moms day out, and many others. I got zero attention. I wanted a child, she gave me one and this was the result. 8 years later, it is still all about our daughter. Nothing about us or what I need. Yes it's childish, annd yes, It may be selfish on my part. 

My wife write little love notes on our daughters water bottle with her lunch every day. I NEVER GET THAT. I used to write and leave notes all the time on the mirror and everywhere else. I feel so sad that she put zero effort into our marriage or attention to me. That is part of why I am angry. She does a great job of being MOM, not so good at being a wife. Sex is the easiestway to help me feel loved, wanted and desired.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wife,
HE Has some issues. For sure he does. And maybe he is hyper sensitive.
Of course you have the right to say "not tonight babe".

If you are sick or visibly tired he should be considerate and not even initiate. And it is also true that somehow you two are either going to find a way for him
to feel comfortable initiating AND for you to reach an overall frequency you BOTH feel good about.

Now let's totally forget sex for a moment. He needs to man up - come clean with you about two huge things:
1. Acknowledgement his behavior towards you is not acceptable. 
2. Define an overall compromise with you that allows him to get rid of the chronic anger that is driving most of his bad behavior

This won't be easy. The wedding bit shows a side of you that is not flattering. 

UOTE=Wife30;737826]Let me ask you a question. Well if a wife is tired! SICK! or just wants a moment in her own skin. She is now harming her husband, because she doesn't drop all the feelings she is having at that exact moment to adopt his feelings, this is a deal breaker for you? It hurts your feelings when your wife says "not tonight honey" ?

I could see if I she said YUCK, gross, NOT you. 

This is not attitude. I promise I am truly trying to wrap my head around this argument. 

I agree I have probably hurt him, but not by saying "not tonight honey - I am tired" 

And if that did hurt him, how do I fix that? I am going to have times in life where I don't feel like it. Am I supposed to just perform anyway, like a pet? 

If he gets offended every time I am not in the mood we will never stop having the same fight. Doesn't he have to own those feelings? 

I own my feelings of resentment. I know he deserves a hobby and time on his own. I know some of that is me but if you get upset because your wife says no (Sometimes) isn't that you?

I go and watch him run his races. I watch the kid so he can work out. I get grumpy about it... but I don't YELL AT HIM OVER A BOWL OF CEREAL. I don't yell at him at all. When I try and talk to him - honestly openly, I get told I am being silly. 

Silly! But when he said he didn't feel like I paid him any attention any more - 2 years ago. I said ok - well lets plan time JUST US once a week - and we did date night every Friday night. 

So I heard him. But if I have issues I am silly.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated and Depressed (May 9, 2012)

There is an apparent underlying reason for his grumpiness and people can assume all they want, but no one really knows the reason except for your husband. And actually, he may not even know! Maybe he does not know the reason that he has become more bitter and maybe he needs to figure that out himself. I think since this is affecting your marriage to this point, you have to seriously sit him down and explain to him how you feel about the changes in your marriage and that you need to find some type of clarification or reasoning so that the two of you can start working on fixing it, whether that be counseling or communicating more deeply about the situation. He is your husband and he loves you so he should be able to realize how much this is hurting you.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Is it me or does it look like someoen else has decided to not respond because they weren't getting the answers they wanted?


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Is it me or does it look like someoen else has decided to not respond because they weren't getting the answers they wanted?


No Toffer I am here, I just had a workshop to facilitate yesterday afternoon, and then I actually went home and spoke to my husband.
I showed him the thread. - He said he does not feel like he is grumpy all the time. 

He actually said, he is just not that emotional, he doesn't get excited, or happy over things like I do. - I don't 100% belive this, since I remember him being joyful during our courtship - but we seemed to center around his reaction to the news we were having a girl. He has said for the past 8 years he would love a daughter. Now that we are having one, he was actually grumpy the day we found out. 

He said I don't know him very well then... And maybe that's true. I told him well - you don't share yourself. You never come home and talk about your day, we are often that couple that sits at a restaurant eating in silence. He said I cut him off when he talks about work. - He is right, I have done this, and I need to work on this. 

His job is highly technical, and I don’t' find it all that interesting. Don't get me wrong, I am proud of him, a lot of what he does involves math that is WAY over my head. - He did also admit that at work they tell him he has a hard time explaining stuff to other employees. He is the Lead architect on his project and has to bring people in sometimes. He understands it, and speaks at a high level, but even those trained in his field, have a hard time following him. - So he is getting that on both ends. And like I said before as he should be my safe place I should be his safe place. I am going to work on that.

He said he is happy with our sex life. I don’t' know if he is just placating me, but he said he is happy. I can only go off what he says. I told him I would like him to get the ball rolling sometimes. He said ok. 

He does not want to do counseling and does not think we need it. I told him that is fine, but that I am going to give it to the end of the year - 6 months. And if I am not feeling better about "us" I want him to go with me.

Things seemed good last night and he seemed happy and was goofing around with our son this morning. I don't know. My fingers are crossed.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Already Gone said:


> When my wife and I decided to have a child, I was the one that pushed her. She always told that "one day we will" So I asked her to marry me and it was still "one day when we are both ready" Then we were getting to the point where we were getting too old so she agreed to try to get pregant.
> 
> We got pregnant right away and when our daughter came, She had the hardest time. I should have listened to her when she said that she wasn't ready. i would of found somebody way before we even got married.
> 
> ...


The only thing I can say here is that I don't think our situation is the same... but I have work and friends that I also put energy into. 

As a SAHM your wife's world is her daughter and you guys made that decision and it will be healthy and beneficial for your daughter to have a mom that is so evolved in her life. (Its a good thing)

My husband did pressure me to have children, but I love him for it. Now I was still young only 27 when I had my son, so there was no time pressure. My hold off was that I wanted at least 5 years for us first - because I knew, like my parents, that I would want to give my kids all that I could. My mother would give me the shirt off her back if I needed it. Sounds like your wife is a very dedicated mom. This is a good thing. And keep in mind, she pushed to hold off on having kids because she cherished your time as a couple. 

I work near my husband, so at lunch sometimes I will drive by and leave a note, or treat in his car. Or I use to. He now won't eat the treats.  But I do send him text, and facebook messages. Like if a silly picture makes me think of him, I will post it on his wall. But I understand the tunnel vision you get with your kids. - She is not doing all of if just for your daughter. She is raising your daughter for you too. Your daughter is part of you, so when she shows that affection toward her, it's to you too. You guys together created her. 

I would try giving what you want to recieve. If it's little love notes. Leave her ones. Send her an email, or text. She most likely will respond. Make it a habit to check in on her once a day. On the days you get busy, she will notice you don't and may pick up the slack. - It is something I would like to see my husband do.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Wife30,
> When did he change and why do you believe that happened.



Mem11363 - I actually think things changed when he started chatting with that female co-worker online. It wasn't flirtations but more venting. She spoke poorly about her husband a lot. How he got mad when she wouldn't make him lunch - but would make the kids lunch. 

He in turn started talking, and thinking, poorly about me. I don't do my laundry - I am messy. I am not interested in staying up late to watch an eclipse. That sort of thing. 

Now he stopped. And I truly have no worry that he is still caring on any kind of relationship with her. But I think this is when he decided he doesn’t' really like things about me. - And while I try to keep my laundry under control now. The seed has been planted. 

I have said this to him. - I am being silly. "I like you, I love you" but his actions say something different sometimes. He opened up to her, probably enjoyed it more than opening up to me and even on an unconscious level, has never come back. 

As A Bit much stated before - I truly believe he does not think I am "FUN" - (I just don't think it's sex) 


And this hurts my feelings. I think I am fun but our interest have grown apart. What can I say? 

It's been 3 years now, and I guess at this point I still question if he really likes me. I think he loves me but I am not sure he likes me. (If that makes sense)

This is my opinion. NOT His.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Mephisto said:


> One question, and I know it shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does.
> 
> How is your weight?
> 
> Sometimes this is an area that builds resentment from your partner as well.


I am small. I don't have weight issues. If I do they are the opposite. Where I try to gain weight. 

But he is thin too. But he works at it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> As A Bit much stated before - I truly believe he does not think I am "FUN" - (I just don't think it's sex)


You're still not convinced? It really can be that simple. As it stands now, you are in control of frequency. He depends on you to give him cues to when it's ok for sex. I'm thinking he resents that.

I was talking about this subject with my husband. He said if a wife turns down her husband he's going to withdraw. Even if it has only happened a couple of times. Rather than face another rejection, he just stops trying. He waits on her to initiate and then he knows she's into it. What ends up happening is he starts to resent being controlled by her in that way. Maybe he wants it every day. Middle ground on that would be 3-4 times a week, but she only initiates a few times a month. It's not enough for him, and he probably feels bad for being angry about it, but he deals because he loves his wife. The anger has to go somewhere... so he finds things to do outside the home. Stays away from her so he's not lashing out.

Let's couple the lack of frequency with the 'mommy' thing 24/7. Nope, not fun at all. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy IMO.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> He said he is happy with our sex life. I don’t' know if he is just placating me, but he said he is happy. I can only go off what he says. I told him I would like him to get the ball rolling sometimes. He said ok.
> 
> He does not want to do counseling and does not think we need it. I told him that is fine, but that I am going to give it to the end of the year - 6 months. And if I am not feeling better about "us" I want him to go with me.
> 
> ...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Hey wife...
We all come on TAM to help each other with our experience by sharing. 

From your last post, I think you have helped me more than you may realize. I do need to do the things that I want her to do. Even if she may not respond at first. Eventually, she will. Even with hugs and all, It seems forced. Practice make perfect though. So thank you wife!... I will work on that.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> I think this is when he decided he doesn’t' really like things about me ... The seed has been planted.
> 
> He opened up to her, probably enjoyed it more than opening up to me and even on an unconscious level, has never come back.
> 
> ...


Wife30,

I hope you can see in retrospect that these statements come off as being judgmental


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> You're still not convinced? It really can be that simple. As it stands now, you are in control of frequency. He depends on you to give him cues to when it's ok for sex. I'm thinking he resents that.
> 
> I was talking about this subject with my husband. He said if a wife turns down her husband he's going to withdraw. Even if it has only happened a couple of times. Rather than face another rejection, he just stops trying. He waits on her to initiate and then he knows she's into it. What ends up happening is he starts to resent being controlled by her in that way. Maybe he wants it every day. Middle ground on that would be 3-4 times a week, but she only initiates a few times a month. It's not enough for him, and he probably feels bad for being angry about it, but he deals because he loves his wife. The anger has to go somewhere... so he finds things to do outside the home. Stays away from her so he's not lashing out.
> 
> Let's couple the lack of frequency with the 'mommy' thing 24/7. Nope, not fun at all. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy IMO.


A Bit Much,

This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.

I am currently living this life and your husband hit the nail square on!

My wife has only iniated about 2x this year so I have to say my frustration level was very high. We have averaged a little less than 1x a week this year

I have withdrawn into myself and no longer to out of my way to express my love for her through non-sexual touch or gestures. I'm still polite as hel* and do all that I've always done around the house but I now do more for just me and don't include her. I go out for meals with friends, do a little fishin or whatever else I want to

as I've stated too many times to count, we've done all the talking, counseling etc and I have seen improvements in my wife but they've always been short lived.

I plan one more try in about 2 weeks and I'll see what that does (waiting for her current busy time to end). after that? Who knows?


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> A Bit Much,
> 
> This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.
> 
> ...


I would think this is a cycle. The more you pull away, the less interested she gets. 

Plus it's a little ridiculous. If you turn down your husband "even if it's just a few times" he is going to withdraw? 

We all get told No in our life. If everyone just stopped trying after the first few times they were told no, many accomplishments would not have been made, careers, inventions, explorations. 

Haven’t' you heard the expression "if at first you don't succeed, try try again?" 

Where does it say that sex is mutually exclusive from this theory? 

Plus - while as wives we want to be viewed as sexy, we also don't only want to be sex objects. In her mind, if you put the whole future of your marriage - relying on sex and her willingness. She is bound to think you don't balance the other important parts of the life you two build together.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Already Gone said:


> Hey wife...
> We all come on TAM to help each other with our experience by sharing.
> 
> From your last post, I think you have helped me more than you may realize. I do need to do the things that I want her to do. Even if she may not respond at first. Eventually, she will. Even with hugs and all, It seems forced. Practice make perfect though. So thank you wife!... I will work on that.


Well this may sound completely stupid, but I am a corporate trainer and one of the first things you learn is that - People as a whole are creatures of habit. Hence why you feel the need to push the elevator button when you walk up to the elevator, even if it's already been pushed. It's just what you habitually do in that situations. So if we are teaching a new process to a group, we want to make it a "Habit" for them. This means it has to be something they get use to, to the point that they don't even really notice its something they do, day to day. 

Pavlov’s Dog - you want that conditioned response. So if you start small by little calls, or text, build it up to a daily thing, next thing she knows - it's part of her day to day. Then when you start to wean off some, she will want to do what is habit and will pick up the slack. 

It really works. I used to call my husband every day, "Just checking in - how is your day going" "Are you still alive out there in the world" 
Now it's not every day. But he does tend to reach out. Not on the phone, but he will email, especially if he comes across an article or something that he thinks might interest me. 

It's NOT overly romantic, but it does show that I am part of his day to day mental dialog.

He is not all bad!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I would think this is a cycle. The more you pull away, the less interested she gets.
> 
> Plus it's a little ridiculous. If you turn down your husband "even if it's just a few times" he is going to withdraw?
> 
> ...


You know what I read here? Lack understanding for what a man really needs to feel whole. You dismiss it because it's not important nor a NEED for you as a woman in the same manner. That's your disconnect from your husband. You almost sound very put out by the idea that sex is that important to him. 

You're not a sex object to a man that truly loves you. You're his beacon. You're the soft place to land when he comes in from dealing with the world. His comforter. Sex is sharing with him in the most intimate way he can share his love for you. To act like or treat it like it's a bother or an unreasonable task, is to literally reject him as a man.

ETA: they don't like to admit it, but a man's ego is more fragile than an egg... they don't need much trampling on it to stop trying. They'll do what they have to do to avoid getting their feelings hurt.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> You know what I read here? Lack understanding for what a man really needs to feel whole. You dismiss it because it's not important nor a NEED for you as a woman in the same manner. That's your disconnect from your husband. You almost sound very put out by the idea that sex is that important to him.
> 
> You're not a sex object to a man that truly loves you. You're his beacon. You're the soft place to land when he comes in from dealing with the world. His comforter. Sex is sharing with him in the most intimate way he can share his love for you. To act like or treat it like it's a bother or an unreasonable task, is to literally reject him as a man.


No - I never said sex isn't important - or that as a women I don't view it as a need. 
Nor did I say it was a bother or unreasonable. I do think it's unreasonable to think your spouse is ALWAYS going to be in the mood when you are. Shoot my husband isn't ALWAYS in the mood when I am. 
I like mornings, he is more of an evening kind of guy. 

Every human being has a libido - but the clocks don't always show the same time. Like time zones sometimes you get jet lagged. 

I think it's a very telling statement, if a man says that his whole marriage would be better if "we just had sex more". This isn't true, and while you might feel more connected, you still have other aspects that bring weight to a marriage. 

I am sorry. Now if she is habitually rejecting him that's another story - But a slow patch, or a bad day, should not make your husband withdraw into himself and you said even if it's just "a couple of times". - Now THAT is ridiculous.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Toffer,
It is almost impossible to succeed if YOU initiate the conversation. The only time I have seen the HD person get a good outcome in those situations is when they do something that I am personally not capable of. Which is basically to have the "I am leaving you" conversation. And it only works if their partner believes they mean it, AND really wants to stay married. I couldn't do that to my wife. 

What is fairer and generally works better is to keep deprioritizing her until SHE says she wants YOU to increase how you prioritize HER. If she does not initiate this conversation it will fail. And that means you are going to have to start cutting back on stuff she DOES care about. So far you have been a bit careful not to cut back on things you know will make her angry or upset. 

Until you get past your fear of upsetting her, I cannot imagine how your sex life could improve. 

The fact that she is so comfortable rejecting you shows a huge lack of respect and consideration. For a woman, desire is linked to respect. The way you avoided directly addressing the negligee tease is a great example of this. That was a PERFECT example of you choosing to not enforce the "no teasing" boundary. 

Until you get to the point where you accept that to improve the marriage, you have to be willing to "bet the marriage", nothing will change. If you truly "accept" that the marriage might not mean so much to her, and she might be willing to let it end, your fear will diminish greatly. If you don't there is no way you will be able to mask it. 

Most women perceive male anger in these situations as fear. The most unsexy situation in the world for a woman is when a man projects fear in a conversation where he is asking for sex. 






Toffer said:


> A Bit Much,
> 
> This post of yours is perhaps the best one I've read about the issue of the sex struggle between husbands and wives.
> 
> ...


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Toffer,
> It is almost impossible to succeed if YOU initiate the conversation. The only time I have seen the HD person get a good outcome in those situations is when they do something that I am personally not capable of. Which is basically to have the "I am leaving you" conversation. And it only works if their partner believes they mean it, AND really wants to stay married. I couldn't do that to my wife.
> 
> What is fairer and generally works better is to keep deprioritizing her until SHE says she wants YOU to increase how you prioritize HER. If she does not initiate this conversation it will fail. And that means you are going to have to start cutting back on stuff she DOES care about. So far you have been a bit careful not to cut back on things you know will make her angry or upset.
> ...


The only thing I would add to this is:

My Grandmother is divorced. Has been for over 40 years. Her husband and her had an abusive relationship, on both sides. But if you ask her, she always says "When I said I wanted a divorce - I never expected it would go as far as it did". Even today at 84 years old, she says this. 

Basically be careful what you ask for. Not everyone understands that when you say "I want out" - really you mean "I want you to fight for me to stay". 

My grandmother has NEVER remarried. She never really dated again either. Now my grandfather got re-married, and was married for 20 years with his second wife before she passed and then he passed. Sometimes, even if someone is pushing you away - it does not mean they don't LOVE you.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> But a slow patch, or a bad day, should not make your husband withdraw into himself and you said even if it's just "a couple of times". - Now THAT is ridiculous.


I take offense to that, only because I was speaking from what my husband says about 'a couple of times'. I don't find his opinion ridiculous. But you know what? I don't deny him sex for any reason so I guess I wouldn't find what he said ridiculous. He's not a hound, he is very respectful of me and cares if I'm sick or tired, or had a bad day... he's very in tune to me to know when it's a good time to go for it and when not to bother.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I take offense to that, only because I was speaking from what my husband says about 'a couple of times'. I don't find his opinion ridiculous. But you know what? I don't deny him sex for any reason so I guess I wouldn't find what he said ridiculous. He's not a hound, he is very respectful of me and cares if I'm sick or tired, or had a bad day... he's very in tune to me to know when it's a good time to go for it and when not to bother.


I don't mean to offend you, but you do put him off. You put him off by mood. You said yourself he is in tune and knows when it's a good time and when not to bother. So even if he is IN THE MOOD, if it's a time "not to bother" - he doesn't get any. 
Maybe your more passive than overt about it - but there are times, when you are sick, tired, had a bad day, that he doesn't get any even if he finds you particularly lovely.

And you dont' feel like a sex object because he is "not a hound" and respectful of your moods.

This is exactly my point. You two aren't ALWAYS on the same page, but he still feels like a man, like YOUR man.

Actually sound like a GREAT give and take.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> I don't mean to offend you, but you do put him off. You put him off by mood. You said yourself he is in tune and knows when it's a good time and when not to bother. So even if he is IN THE MOOD, if it's a time "not to bother" - he doesn't get any.
> Maybe your more passive than overt about it - but there are times, when you are sick, tired, had a bad day, that he doesn't get any even if he finds you particularly lovely.
> 
> This is exactly my point. You two aren't ALWAYS on the same page, but he still feels like a man, like YOUR man.


We are on the same page, we just don't disrespect each other and have a sense of courtesy when it comes to certain things. I don't go jumping on him when he's sick (tired etc.) either. It makes me feel like a jerk. He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> We are on the same page, we just don't disrespect each other and have a sense of courtesy when it comes to certain things. I don't go jumping on him when he's sick (tired etc.) either. It makes me feel like a jerk. He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.


RIGHT! - But not all men are like your husband. Some are dense and don’t' realize their wife has had a bad day, has come home, maybe she doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to bring home her bad mood, she is in bed, internalizing her feelings, trying to un-wind, read a book - whatever! He leans over "wink wink" - She says "not tonight honey, I have had a bad day" - Next thing you know she is being accused of rejecting him.
He then has reason NOT to try anymore? To reject her on other levels. - No Way. If he loves her, knows her, then he understands that her "not tonight" is not about him. 

Again this is in the situation where its not a consistent refusal. If it's all the time, over a long stretch of time, fine. There is another issue there.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

And I am sure some men are "hounds" and disrespectful! - As are some women!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> She says "not tonight honey, I have had a bad day"


In a marriage in which there is true 'in tuneness' (if you will) she doesn't have to say a thing.

And personally, if I had a bad day I want to unwind and can't think of anything BETTER than an O to fix me right up.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The way I see it, the sex isn't just for him. It's for me too.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> He says that he feels bad if he wants it and I'm not feeling well. Any normal human being would feel the same way.


And I am not saying your husband is ridiculous. Just the statement he made. As you stated above, he knows there are times that you both aren’t in the mood. He respects your feelings. - So while he made the statement, he is aware there are situations that you would turn him down... or - to better phrase, Not be up for sex. And he understands it's not him.

Please dont' think I was calling your husband ridiculous. That was not my intention and I am sorry.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> In a marriage in which there is true 'in tuneness' (if you will) she doesn't have to say a thing.
> 
> And personally, if I had a bad day I want to unwind and can't think of anything BETTER than an O to fix me right up.


Very true. haha! :smthumbup:


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"I would think this is a cycle. The more you pull away, the less interested she gets. 

Plus it's a little ridiculous. If you turn down your husband "even if it's just a few times" he is going to withdraw? 

We all get told No in our life. If everyone just stopped trying after the first few times they were told no, many accomplishments would not have been made, careers, inventions, explorations. 

Haven’t' you heard the expression "if at first you don't succeed, try try again?" 

Where does it say that sex is mutually exclusive from this theory? 

Plus - while as wives we want to be viewed as sexy, we also don't only want to be sex objects. In her mind, if you put the whole future of your marriage - relying on sex and her willingness. She is bound to think you don't balance the other important parts of the life you two build together"

Sorry to disagree with you yet again but yes, this DOES cause withdrawl. However, you have one part wrong in your intial statement. MY withdrawl doesn't cause disinterest in her, it's starting to cause disinterest in ME and the entire marriage! 

Haven’t' you heard the expression "if at first you don't succeed, try try again?" 

Yeah, I'm familiar with it. But when nothing you do seems to change the outcome, then isn't the wiser individual the one who re-focuses their efforts elsewhere? Let's face it, I'm not trying to cure cancer. I'm trying to get laid! Others on here will tell you that this has been a big factor in ending some marriages. Not the only factor mind you but why put up with all the other sh*t if you're not getting any?

"while as wives we want to be viewed as sexy, we also don't only want to be sex objects. In her mind, if you put the whole future of your marriage - relying on sex and her willingness. She is bound to think you don't balance the other important parts of the life you two build together"

Oh but most of us do "balance the other important parts of the life you two build together". We agreed to be sexually exclusive to them, we didn't agree to be sexless (or close to it) and we certainly didn't sign up to have someone crap all over our self esteem

BTW, loved the reference to Pavlov's dogs and your husband. Can anyone say "Power Trip"?

Seems like you're the type who is controlling and enjoys steering the ship. 

You're right though. You're both not going to be in the mood at the same time. However, while I do the dishes every night after dinner, I can't say I want to do that ANY night. It's about a comprise. She cooked the meal for me (which I'm sure she wasn't in the mood for either) so I gladly clean it up beacuse I know she appreciates that. Maybe if one time when your hubby was a little hot and bothered but you weren't, you did it anyway (and try and make it seem like you're actually in to it). that could go a long way.

"and while you might feel more connected, you still have other aspects that bring weight to a marriage"

OK, I can only speak for myself but if the sexual part of my relationship is good, it's a hel* of alot easier for me to deal with other issues because I actually feel good about myself and my marriage

" But a slow patch, or a bad day, should not make your husband withdraw into himself and you said even if it's just "a couple of times". - Now THAT is ridiculous. 

again, your attitude bleeds through here. I also have a feeling that it's also been much much more than a couple of times!

" don't mean to offend you, but you do put him off. You put him off by mood. You said yourself he is in tune and knows when it's a good time and when not to bother. So even if he is IN THE MOOD, if it's a time "not to bother" - he doesn't get any. 
Maybe your more passive than overt about it - but there are times, when you are sick, tired, had a bad day, that he doesn't get any even if he finds you particularly lovely.

And you dont' feel like a sex object because he is "not a hound" and respectful of your moods.

This is exactly my point. You two aren't ALWAYS on the same page, but he still feels like a man, like YOUR man.

Actually sound like a GREAT give and take"

WOW! Very good advice. perhaps give it a try on your end!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I've got my own issues that through my own fault I've let slide for too many years. I am not saying that yours are identical but as you will not, most of my last post were YOUR words and MY inteprtation.

Again, somthing is lost when you can't hear the inflection in the voice but we can't do anything about that here.

What I am trying to do is serve as a warning to you. Take it or leave it but as others have noted. you seem more fixated on being angry and right than on fixing your relationship.

It may be too late for me (and time will tell in the near future) but you still have a shot at fixing the issues in your marriage.

Whether or not you caused them is not the issue I am trying to debate with you. What I am saying is someone in your relationship needs to grab hold of the reins and try to do something about it. Either that or you can both sit back and watch it all burn.

Your choice


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Toffer;740630BTW said:


> With the Pavlov's dog thing - there are just better ways, more productive ways to get what you need, besides getting hostile. Maybe it's a control thing, but I sure as h#ll don't need to brow beat him into thinking about me. Maybe there is a softer approach. A conditioned response you can evoke.
> 
> And you just compared your sex life to "Doing the dishes" every night. Do you really want a women to "suck it up" and do it like a chore? Even if she fakes it, don't you think there is something not 100% right with asking your wife to be that way? View sex that way?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wife,
I just want to suggest something that works for us. 

My W can have the night off whenever she wants - without having to justify, explain or defend. All she does is say "can we connect tomorrow night"? 

It is understood that if something "real" happens tomorrow night that gets in the way, I won't mention sex. But real by definition is very rare. So on any given night sex is completely discretionary for my W, and yet she never rejects me because she never just says "no". Saying "no" to a man is ok if it is rare and if you truly never do it back to back. There is an exponential amount of damage you do with sequential rejection. 

BTW: Your husband has a lot of pride. He has told you repeatedly he wants more sex. But when you ask if he is angry about not having enough - he hears it as "are you needy" and so he says "we are fine". 

And at risk of TMI. At 49 twice a week is fine for me. In my thirties that would have been a total non-starter. This is a joint problem - but ONCE a week is MISERABLE for a young healthy guy with a strong libido. 

The excessive and borderline angry focus he has on exercise is his stress management for sexual frustration AND a way for him to deprioritize you for rejecting him to the point where he no longer initiates. I really think you don't understand how messed up the initiation thing is. 

This is like the eating dinner together bit. Whether or not the family eats together is NOT a totally subjective matter of personal preference. There have been many studies on this subject. Families that eat together in a predictable manner are more succesful and happy across the board. 

Your lack of grasp that having the HD partner stop initiating is a bad thing is like his not understanding that eating separately is not healthy. 

The one thing about this that is kind of amusing is this. He has given you two opposite answers to the same question. His behavior - the compliments and all - scream that he very much wants more sex. And yet he makes one comment that its no big deal - and you choose to believe that because it is somehow convenient for you not to have to deal with it. 

This is the "wedding" scenario all over again. You know what YOU want out of the situation and are very focused on that just like you focused on the wedding to the point where you deprioritized him. The sad thing is that you have a very valid list of things you want. You just don't seem that inclined to make the effort to understand your husband well enough to meet his needs. 






Wife30 said:


> RIGHT! - But not all men are like your husband. Some are dense and don’t' realize their wife has had a bad day, has come home, maybe she doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to bring home her bad mood, she is in bed, internalizing her feelings, trying to un-wind, read a book - whatever! He leans over "wink wink" - She says "not tonight honey, I have had a bad day" - Next thing you know she is being accused of rejecting him.
> He then has reason NOT to try anymore? To reject her on other levels. - No Way. If he loves her, knows her, then he understands that her "not tonight" is not about him.
> 
> Again this is in the situation where its not a consistent refusal. If it's all the time, over a long stretch of time, fine. There is another issue there.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> I've got my own issues that through my own fault I've let slide for too many years. I am not saying that yours are identical but as you will not, most of my last post were YOUR words and MY inteprtation.
> 
> Again, somthing is lost when you can't hear the inflection in the voice but we can't do anything about that here.
> 
> ...


No I get it, I am not that happy with my hubby. But I did talk to him last night and we are going to continue to try and be respectful of each others feelings. 

I asked him if he had issues with our sex life. He said no. I was just having a discussion about views posted here. They don't all really pertain to me and mine. 

I do find a lot of what you guys say very interesting. I don't agree with all of it. And I am opinionated!!! I get it. 

I don't know your situation, but you seem to be done with your wife. I don't feel done with my husband. I am just saying - there is more to your story than just sex!


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Wife,
> I just want to suggest something that works for us.
> 
> My W can have the night off whenever she wants - without having to justify, explain or defend. All she does is say "can we connect tomorrow night"?
> ...


Ok,
Your first statement is actually a GREAT suggestion - I may try that. 

But I don't know when my husband has repeatedly told me he wants more sex? He has said he wants more attention. More Couple - without kid time. 

And last night, as I stated in an earlier post, I let him read the thread, and he swears he does initiates. - We kind of disagree on this point. - So your argument that I am controling sex does not hold up with HIM, not me. 

I dont' think SEX is our issue! Not ALL issues are SEX. Some are money, time, personality. 
I think I have a strong personality. HE gets put off by it. 

The fact that I continue to say this, but continue to get post that "I just don't understand" astounds me. Maybe this is your issue in your marriage. 

But you have said - you don't know my husband. I HAVE directly asked him. He says we are "GREAT IN THE SACK" - 

However I do find these arguments intersting. Maybe you guys have this opinion but don't want to hear another side yourselves? 

I agree if I was turning him down regularly- this would be bad. But I dont' - and maybe for you 1-2 times a week in your 30's wasnt enough. - Again each person is different.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

toffer raises white flag and bangs head against wall
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Wife30 said:


> However I do find these arguments intersting. Maybe you guys have this opinion but don't want to hear another side yourselves?


No way. I love to hear the other side, especially if it is reasonably and respectfully presented


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *The sex is on and off. I am pregnant right now, and actually in the mood a lot, but he never seems to try anymore - so if I don't instigate... and I am not great at initiating sex... then we stew in silence. He blames me, saying I would turn him down a lot so he stopped trying*, but I feel like he blames me for everything. When we have sex - it's good, but I don't feel like there is a lot of intimacy. More wham bam thank you mam. If you get my drift.
> 
> *He does not communicate - even in good moods*. He has been pushing me for the last 3 years to have another baby. He wants a little girl, but did not act excited at all - actually acted grumpy when we found out we were having a girl. It's odd - the second child was more pressure from him, but then he didn't tell anyone until I asked why he hadn't shared the news, and he was grumpy the day we found out we were having a girl.


So, since he read the thread, what does he have to say about what you said here?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I asked him if he had issues with our sex life. He said no


This directly contradicts your first few posts about him. Was it your perception about your sex life that was incorrect, or do you think now he's going along to not rock the boat?


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

On sex -He said he had issues before, But not now. He said he does get the ball rolling. As I said we don't agree on this point. (him and I) 

He said he isn't grumpy all the time. That he shows Emotion different than me. that he s happy about our little girl. I put this in my first post today!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> No way. I love to hear the other side, especially if it is reasonably and respectfully presented


On my phone.. like this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> toffer raises white flag and bangs head against wall
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha! Ditto!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wife,
I "re-read" the thread. You are right - you did not say that. I misread something you said in relation to others. 

Maybe you are right. Perhaps this really is about other stuff. I will repeat - his behavior is quite bad. If I told my W she was being "silly" on a routine basis when she wasn't - sorry can't wrap my head around the idea. Too much respect, and a healthy sense of self preservation prevents me from doing that. 

The chronic "grumpiness" is really chronic anger. It could be his diet. It could be the diet plus sex combo. Only he knows and he is not being very straight with you. 

I will add one more bit of context before you read the rest. If I treated my W like this - the hiding the bonus - the yelling at her all the time - we would NOT have ANY sex. We might not be married. His behavior SUCKS. 

And he is not being straight with you. He says he initiates. He doesn't. He says sexually "we are great". Very ambiguous. It does not mean he is ok with frequency. And his over the top behavior when you offer tends to imply he is NOT ok with frequency. 

The bolded paragraphs below are what I keyed in on. Maybe I am wrong. And you might want to realize that your use of language on this topic is a bit polarizing. For instance you make very rational and legitimate comments about your right to decline sex. I read them, understand them and agree with you. 

And then you toss in a statement that to a male is a hand grenade because you say (see bold direcly below) something that is very, very different. Maybe that statement is the outlier - and doesn't represent what has happened in the past. Vast difference between:
- I rarely reject him and
- I don't reject him EVERY time 

"This makes sense, except - Yes I made him wait for 5 years to have children. I was only 22 when we got married. He was still finishing his masters, we needed that time before we took on the responsibility. *I didn't deny him sex EVERY time. *We have had sex regularly throughout our marriage at least 1 to 2 times a week. At times 4-5 times a week." 




*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then with sex – It’s once or twice a week, when I say “hey honey want to – wink wink” – This is the only time I am told that I am wonderful, sexy, or pretty.
But the complements are never – Smart, funny, or thank you for hosting my mother’s 60th birthday party and cooking mini crab cakes for her and 40 of her closest friends, while herding a 3 year old. THEN on my 30th birthday – instead of taking me out, he went out the day of and got me a potted plant and a card, said love you and went to the D*MN GYM. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The sex is on and off. I am pregnant right now, and actually in the mood a lot, but he never seems to try anymore - so if I don't instigate... and I am not great at initiating sex... then we stew in silence. He blames me, saying I would turn him down a lot so he stopped trying, but I feel like he blames me for everything. When we have sex - it's good, but I don't feel like there is a lot of intimacy. More wham bam thank you mam. If you get my drift.

And to be honest it does feel like a chore, but I have to say I am not interested in having sex with someone who excludes me from every other part of his life. THE ONLY TIME HE COMPLEMNTS ME IS DURING SEX. This feeds all kinds of resentment. I have gotten to where it's a turn off when he calls me sexy, or pretty during sex - because I never hear it otherwise. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>* 

I will repeat - his behavior is over the top. If this is his core personality and there truly isn't a direct underlying source for it - you have big problems. And the "wam bam thank you maam stuff" WTF - that is NOT COOL. 

You seem very much the alpha. That is fine and can work - as long as there isn't a total loss of balance. 

For instance my W is more the alpha than I am. But definitely not in bed. And when she is being slightly impossible I gently and teasingly twist her into knots until she says uncle. 




Wife30 said:


> Ok, Your first statement is actually a GREAT suggestion - I may try that. But I don't know when my husband has repeatedly told me he wants more sex? He has said he wants more attention. More Couple - without kid time. And last night, as I stated in an earlier post, I let him read the thread, and he swears he does initiates. - We kind of disagree on this point. - So your argument that I am controling sex does not hold up with HIM, not me. I dont' think SEX is our issue! Not ALL issues are SEX. Some are money, time, personality. I think I have a strong personality. HE gets put off by it. The fact that I continue to say this, but continue to get post that "I just don't understand" astounds me. Maybe this is your issue in your marriage. But you have said - you don't know my husband. I HAVE directly asked him. He says we are "GREAT IN THE SACK" - However I do find these arguments intersting. Maybe you guys have this opinion but don't want to hear another side yourselves? I agree if I was turning him down regularly- this would be bad. But I dont' - and maybe for you 1-2 times a week in your 30's wasnt enough. - Again each person is different.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> On sex -He said he had issues before, But not now. He said he does get the ball rolling. As I said we don't agree on this point. (him and I)
> 
> *He said he isn't grumpy all the time. That he shows Emotion different than me*. that he s happy about our little girl. I put this in my first post today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would think this would be stating the obvious. 

To you he's grumpy. It starts fights because you perceive his mood to be... well moody. How are you going to manage going forward?

What about the wham bam thank you ma'am? If sex is great with him (according to what he told you) then how are you addressing this? Wham bam isn't sound very nice or loving, unless both parties don't mind it.


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## Wife30 (May 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Wife,
> I "re-read" the thread. You are right - you did not say that. I misread something you said in relation to others.
> 
> Maybe you are right. Perhaps this really is about other stuff. I will repeat - his behavior is quite bad. If I told my W she was being "silly" on a routine basis when she wasn't - sorry can't wrap my head around the idea. Too much respect, and a healthy sense of self preservation prevents me from doing that.
> ...


I think the Every Time was in response to someone saying if you Always turn him down. I will go back and read. I was stil pissed yesterday, my post clearly show that. These post actually helped me come home and confront him last night. He still says he isn't grumpy all the time, but the conversation last night did make me realize I do reject him.. Just not in bed. I don't have a lot of energy for him when he talks about work. I cut him off actually. I am going to work on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Relationship Coach (Apr 27, 2012)

Wife30 said:


> Ok,
> I guess I am looking for some unbiased advice! I can talk to my girlfriends, or mother - but then they are always on my side. I appreciate this, but sometimes an outside view helps.
> 
> My husband and I seem to be fighting a lot. We have been arguing for about 3 years now, since the birth of my son. The first year with our son was hard, but I felt like we had sorted it out. I am now 5 months pregnant with our 2nd (A little girl).
> ...


Hi - apologies in advance because I don't have time to read the 9 pages but wanted to give you a perspective here as I consider this to be my area of specialty and probably why I'm in coaching:

Your husband is *sensitive*. He's really sensitive. There are a lot of reasons for this, but let's just assume they are simply due to his anger over other stuff in his life. He may not be particularly happy with himself. Whatever the reason, this level of sensitive is deep-seated and not easy to navigate. 

When you say "careful" when he hits the box, *he thinks you are criticizing him*. He may be unhappy about his day (or his life, who knows), and then he has to hear you attack him about the littlest action and it sets him off...at least, that's how he hears it. Then he starts blaming his issues on you (or someone else). 

Let's jump to the good/bad mood. Asking someone who is this sensitive/angry why they are in a bad mood is seen as another attack. It make them recoil and become defensive, instead of feeling calming and loved (which is probably what he needs). You want to know what's up, but all he hears is "I've done something wrong AGAIN!" 

This is not a quick fix. It's not easy either. You have to be willing to subjugate your ego entirely and not REACT to him if you want to help him navigate the ship down whatever road is really bothering him. This sensitivity could be partially from past conditioning, but it's often from anger and self-loating that surreptitiously builds up over time. In his mind, a lot of it may be directed at you (fair or unfair). You have to be OK with this. 

I would imagine he has a very hard time ever saying the words "I was wrong," and apologizing might seem like a minor miracle as well. Here's a quick technique tip: 

Next time you start "the fight," totally change your viewpoint of it. Your husband is expressing pain to you. Use the phrase "*I* FEEL" and "It seems to *ME*," *avoiding saying you as it feels like an attack. *

Instead of reacting (or rolling eyes with your mom), try to smile, breath and calmly say "is everything OK?" In the "careful" example above, it might go like this:

*Hits box*

"Careful"

He flips out. You say is everything OK when he's done. He either says no and hopefully has some expression of something that's really bothering him, or he might say,

"Yes, everything is fine." *silence*

Then you can express yourself about the outburst he had. *Don't say "you just said blah blah" or "then why did you blah blah?"* Instead say "baby, I feel like that was out of character. I feel like something upset you," or "did you not like what I said?" 

See if that's enough for him to engage. Your goal is to try and have a conversation where you can express yourself clearly but also remove a lot of the reaction and emotion -- he needs to feel comfortable and safe if you are going to get anywhere.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> ... the conversation last night did make me realize I do reject him.. Just not in bed. I don't have a lot of energy for him when he talks about work. I cut him off actually. I am going to work on this.


I am an alpha female. I didn't marry an alpha male; far from it. However, my husband was a brilliant Army officer, a gourmet cook, and had brains out the wazoo.

I applaud you for going from being on the defense, to seeing your own issues. Good for you. 

I rejected my husband without honestly realizing I did so. It is too late for me to fix what I did, although I made sincere amends to him via email for my part in the demise of our marriage.

You mentioned you showed your husband this thread. I believe you said he is starting to come around. Good. Honestly, alpha females are very take-charge, don't-give-me-any-crap types. We don't do it intentionally; nevertheless, it happens.

Any chance at all you can get hubs to join you in counseling? If not, IC would be a start. If he starts to see changes in you, he will have to adapt to those changes. Well, he doesn't HAVE to, but when one's partner changes, the other generally starts to change in response.

I wish you the very best in your marriage. With all the issues, it is still worth saving. Fight the good fight.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wife30 said:


> On sex -He said he had issues before, But not now. He said he does get the ball rolling. As I said we don't agree on this point. (him and I)
> 
> He said he isn't grumpy all the time. That he shows Emotion different than me. that he s happy about our little girl. I put this in my first post today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Out of curiosity, do you believe your husband when he says he isn't grumpy all the time? If not, then why do you take him at his word on the other parts of the conversation?


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