# Why not "D"?



## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. Few are completely blameless.
Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Because not every couple wants to divorce or makes the decision to divorce. Many couples reconcile post-cheating/affair, etc. 

Just the same as some couples can see no other option for them but divorcing (or at least one party does).

No two couples are the same.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes it's better and easier to salvage a marriage than to build a brand new one from scratch. It really depends on the issues and the people - there is no one answer that always works. I say that as someone who thinks divorce is often a good answer to many marital issues!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

A lot of people will talk about the kids, or finances, but I think that most likely, it is pride and fear that make people stay married, when it's pretty clear that the marriage is toast.
I divorced, then spent a while trying to get back together, when I finally decided that the best thing is to walk away, and take my emotional a$$ whipping, and learn from it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You're right that fear - of the unknown, etc. - is often a big factor in staying in a bad marriage. If yours really was bad, then you made the right choice in leaving. I left a bad marriage, even without infidelity occurring.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Fear keeps from people from D. As does hope. Knowing what I do now about the possibility of R failing decades down the road, I wouldn't hesitate to D at the first sign of cheating. But all those decades ago there was a lot of fear and hope. And many reassurances on his part it would never happen again. 

Turned out to be lies but there's where all that hope came in.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

No one has mentioned the most common reason, Love. I still Love my WH. We've been together 34 years & 33 of those were good & happy ones. Even though he has ripped my heart out, I don't know how to stop Loving him..


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

D&L, the thing is --- many people loved (or still love) their ex-spouse but left anyway. And, yes, it's very much harder to D when you still love your STBX. But sometimes it comes down to you or them. And you decide to choose you (I did anyway).


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Rookie4 said:


> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


Investment and damage control. It's not so much fear as it is giving up and starting over. It's no longer just your spouse. It's your lifestyle, family, pets, extended family, and multiple other relationships, finances, etc.. Your life revolved around the marriage and family where your spouse is really just a part of that overall package. Divorce is dismantling your life and trying to form something out of whatever is left. It can be exciting and scary at the same time. It can be better, or it can be worse. It's still an unknown.

Reconciliation is also like that; exciting and scary at the same time and also unknown whether it will recover. Pick your toxin, roll the dice. Either way, your life changed. 

A lot of it is hedging your bets. You know that person; they might be worth salvaging or not depending on whether or not they want to really try. 

Gets back into you assuming a BS owns part of why they cheated. That's bull. Your WS made a conscious choice to spend their energy on other relationships instead of your relationship to them. It takes two to fix a relationship. They are either going to show signs that they are focused on the relationship with you, or focused on themselves. That sort of dictates how you might do your own risk assessment of trying to reconcile with them or not. "S*** or get off the pot". There's no 'halfway' or Plan B allowed.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

The wayward person often doesn't even think they did anything all that bad, they say it's all because their husband or wife was a bad person and blah blah blah.

What's the betrayed person going to different next time?

Follow their spouse around all over the place?

Makes no sense.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Not all people think about and process betrayal the same way, some have the ability to forgive and others have the ability to truly seek forgiveness. There are examples of couples who have made it and rebuilt their marriage successfully. 

I'm not one of those examples, my marriage went straight to D, but that does not make it the best decision for everyone.

After reading stories here, I think that true R would actually be more difficult than D.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. Few are completely blameless.
> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


Yeah! Why bother to fix the car if one of the spark plugs is broken? 

Yeah! Scrap the pesky car and buy a new one!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sandie said:


> The wayward person often doesn't even think they did anything all that bad, they say it's all because their husband or wife was a bad person and blah blah blah.
> 
> What's the betrayed person going to different next time?
> 
> ...


Just hope they aren't going to do it again?


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> No one has mentioned the most common reason, Love. I still Love my WH. We've been together 34 years & 33 of those were good & happy ones. Even though he has ripped my heart out, I don't know how to stop Loving him..


Sorry what happened to you. I agree with you, It must be so HARD when you find out the person you LOVE so much can do this to you. I would not know what to do if my hubby cheated on me. My husband has told me if i was to cheat he would leave there would be no second chances for me, I understand that, and i would never jeopardise what we have i love him so much, there is no way in the world i would cheat.

I think now, What would i do if my husband cheated, I would leave, but my heart would ache so much for him, i love my life so much.....

When my boys dad cheated, I threw him out, It hurt like hell, but i could not do it anymore, I would never forget, but with my husband who i am with now its so different, I have never loved someone like i love him, and i am if being honest not sure i could live without him, so i understand totally why you stay.

The only thing with this relationship is the difference between the two men, my ex was a selfish git who was never here, never worked, and treated me like crap.... so telling him to leave, and moving on although we had children was most certainly the right thing to do, I knew my children and I deserved better, and would be better off without him, he was not bringing nothing to the relationship.... It took me 7 years to realise that.

My husband is totally the opposite, hes caring, loving, works hard is always here, hes a family man, were his world, I know i made the right decision, If i had stayed got knows where i would be now, I know for a fact i would still be a doormat.

What i cant understand tho, Is why someone stays with someone who treats them so bad, and continues to treat them badly... I just believe they deserve SO much better, Like what i have.

Sounds like tho, you have something to hold on to... 34 happy years is a long time, and like you say only 1 year was a bad one.

All the best.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. Few are completely blameless.
> 
> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


I'm curious: why can't the WS and BS learn from their bad and do better within the marriage? 

I chose not to divorce my Dear Hubby because I made a commitment to him and I wanted to change the person I had become back to the person I truly was: an honest, trustworthy, moral person. Now honestly I could (can) do that change with or without him, but why should I divorce him if I can do it with him?

And if he is also willing to look at "his bad' and learn from it and change the person he had become... why would I want to start over? With my Dear Hubby I already had a past, common memories, history (both good and bad), and I knew him and his positives and negatives...and he knew me and my positives and negatives. 

I'm concerned that this question and this way of thinking is kind of like "the grass is greener" thinking. Because let's face it, everyone has issues. Every single person is imperfect in some way. So to my mind, I thought Dear Hubby was essentially a good man at his foundation and had made some choices that were not-so-good. Well... he can learn! And ditto for me. Thus, why not give it a whirl and see if we couldn't build something even better?


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Unfortunately, I would never trust *anyone* fully again. Ever. 

So, at least with my WW, all the cards are on the table now. I understand her better now than ever before and I also have 36 years invested in this relationship 

AND I love her. 

SO, right now the known is way better than the unknown.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Rookie4 said:


> Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. * There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. * Few are completely blameless.
> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


I take issue with the wording you have (BOLDFACED).

I do not believe that the BS contributes to the cheating spouse's behavior. that choice is 100% on the WS.

That said, if you are talking about the state of the marriage? I'll give you that. Some BS's contribute to a negative marriage.

But not all cheaters have a negative marriage. they will even tell you that it is their own selfish sense of entitlement that makes them cheat.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


This can only be done with a new partner?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

honcho said:


> This can only be done with a new partner?


You make a good point. Sometimes the couple can do it together.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. Few are completely blameless.
> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?




Good question the short answer is fear and laziness many are simply too afraid to embrace the unknown fearful that they may be betrayed again the old saying the devil you know versus the devil you don't come to mind.. The other half is justly lazy they don't wont be bothered by going back into the dating game and through the process of finding right mate It's sad to say but its that simple..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

xakulax said:


> Good question the short answer is fear and laziness many are simply too afraid to embrace the unknown fearful that they may be betrayed again the old saying the devil you know versus the devil you don't come to mind.. The other half is justly lazy they don't wont be bothered by going back into the dating game and through the process of finding right mate It's sad to say but its that simple..


And what of us who still love our spouse, even though they cheated on us?

You ignored us.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

michzz said:


> I take issue with the wording you have (BOLDFACED).
> 
> I do not believe that the BS contributes to the cheating spouse's behavior. that choice is 100% on the WS.
> 
> ...


I concur.

If a someone cheats on a test in school, we don't buy the excuse that the *reason* the cheater cheated was because the teacher was "mean" to him/her during the school year. 

The BS does not "contribute" to the cheating any more than the mean teacher contributed to the student's decision to cheat on a test. 

People have OPTIONS besides cheating. They have options such as: 

Talking to their spouse about their behavior
Reading self-help books
Talking to a clergy member
Joint counseling
Individual counseling
Trial separation
Divorce

...to name a few. 



> Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


It has been shown that while the WS may have complaints about the BS, the complaints are quite often outright _lies_...or about things that happened so long ago that the BS thought was solved...or that the complaint is about something very minor that could have been solved, if the WS opened their mouth. Also, quite often it is the WS who carries the lion's share of the marital problems, and the WS is merely _projecting_ onto the BS. 

This does NOT mean that the BS was 'perfect' in the marriage. But did the WS cheat BECAUSE the BS wasn't 'perfect'? 

There ARE cheaters who have done the hard work of self-discovery and virtually ALL of them have eventually admitted that their cheating had NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR SPOUSE/PARTNER. They cheated because of their own out of control ego, lack of self-awareness and selfishness.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> And what of us who still love our spouse, even though they cheated on us?
> 
> You ignored us.



Not really just down playing


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Vega said:


> I concur.
> 
> If a someone cheats on a test in school, we don't buy the excuse that the *reason* the cheater cheated was because the teacher was "mean" to him/her during the school year.
> 
> ...


But what if they are unaware that what they are doing is wrong? Or might hurt their spouse?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And what of us who still love our spouse, even though they cheated on us?
> :


Because cheating has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PERSON THE CHEATER IS MARRIED TO, AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE KIND OF PERSON THE CHEATER IS![/B]

(sorry...didn't mean to 'yell'. Just trying to drive home a point to EVERYONE who reads this!)


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> But what if they are unaware that what they are doing is wrong? Or might hurt their spouse?


If they're unaware of what they are doing is wrong, then WHY ARE THEY *HIDING* IT FROM THEIR SPOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE? 

Truth is, that even GRADE SCHOOL KIDS understand the pain of betrayal. 

Unless the cheater has some kind of reduced mental capacity, MOST cheaters realize that what they are doing as wrong, and that their spouse would be hurt by their actions (if revealed) simply because they wouldn't want their spouse/partner to cheat on THEM.

The Golden Rule is a great way to figure out whether or not something is right or wrong. 

Would the cheater like to be cheated on...?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Why not divorce? This was difficult for me to answer on d-day and even today. When I have tunnel vision I should have divorced. When I look at the entire picture, my best choice was reconciliation. Both options are difficult to make your way through and both options have pain and destruction. Devastating consequences no matter which path you choose. Divorce and become a part time father, family unit destroyed, another male raising my kids. Reconciliation, living with what my WW is capable of, hope it doesn't happen again, the hardest work you will ever do. As you can see neither path is easy or without pain. For me, I found reconciliation to be my best option. 

My marriage was bad before the affair, my WW chose to have an affair, that hurts no matter how many times I type that out. I own my share of the marriage failures, my WW owns hers, she solely owns the affair. With that said I began to work on myself. I had no idea if my WW had the strength to do the heavy lifting or not. She has thrown herself all in to repair the damage she caused, the families she helped to destroy. She has not blame shifted to me nor has she said the marriage was bad. But she did feel the marriage was over, which was one of our biggest fails, communication. To be honest I thought she might try reconciliation and after three months, quit, tell me she has nothing left to give. But she hasn't, she puts her head down and pushes through the difficulties to make the necessary repairs. I can't fault her, she's busting her a$$ each and every day.

Divorce after being together after twenty seven years total together? No thanks, I can see I made the correct choice. It was mentioned in another post that if you don't divorce you are lazy and fearful, I disagree with that statement. First reconciliation is the hardest work I've ever done. Not for the lazy or the weak. Second, I don't fear being single or re-entering the dating scene. I wouldn't be able to face my job if I were built that way. In fact I will even share the only thing I was ever scared of before the affair, surgery. After the affair I have gotten scared of some things but I confront that fear, just as I did when I had to have my two surgeries. So to say I didn't divorce for fear or laziness is absolutely ludicrous. 

My WW and I have worked hard and gotten to a better place. It has come with a heavy price, pain, tears, being suicidal, and being completely destroyed. I will be married twenty years at the end of this month, I'm actually looking forward to this anniversary, to celebrate the hard work and accomplishments we have made. I love my wife and I'm in love with my wife, I also pushed her away before the affair. I was a bad husband, she made bad choices, but together we are striving to be perfect even though neither of us are. Our love runs deep, I've stated numerous times I can't believe she gave herself away. I can't believe she is capable of this. But now I know, she is capable, and we can fix this. We communicate everything now, I'm learning to be vulnerable, as is she. We are better now then any point in our relationship, why give up on that? 

Each couple and each marriage is different. I'm not telling anyone to do as I have, we all do what is best for us personally. If your best option is divorce then do it, if its reconciliation then do it. You are your own person with your own opinions and living your life. Nobody from the Internet is going to know what your best choice is. They can offer advice, make you see it from a new angle, or support you, but ultimately it's your life and your choice. To come here and use a blanket statement that anyone who doesn't divorce for fear or laziness actually made me laugh. How do you know that person, that situation, or that marriage? I've never even told my full story, but you consider me lazy and fearful? I can live with that because I know the truth, I know me, and I know what my best choice is. 

So, no matter if you divorce or reconcile its up to the BS to determine his/hers best options and move forward. Their is no right or wrong answer, there are too many variables at play within each relationship. One of the worst things for me was that I was forced to make this decision when I never wanted to. However, I made my decision, now I busy my a$$ to correct the flaws I have. My goal is to find peace and happiness once again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah! Why bother to fix the car if one of the spark plugs is broken?
> 
> Yeah! Scrap the pesky car and buy a new one!


I think we are talking a little more serious than a minor electrical problem , here, Matt. A better analogy is; why try to save a boat with the bottom out of it, when it would be better to get on another.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I'm curious: why can't the WS and BS learn from their bad and do better within the marriage?
> 
> I chose not to divorce my Dear Hubby because I made a commitment to him and I wanted to change the person I had become back to the person I truly was: an honest, trustworthy, moral person. Now honestly I could (can) do that change with or without him, but why should I divorce him if I can do it with him?
> 
> ...


I think you have a good point, AC, but I also think, unfortunately, that few people have your level of awareness, to do the job (and it IS a job) of recapturing your past feelings. Many of the people I know who have experienced infidelity and decided NOT to divorce, are extremely unhappy, and seemed to be resigned to a loveless and mediocre existence. How sad.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

honcho said:


> This can only be done with a new partner?


I think it CAN happen with the same people, but this is, in my opinion, very rare. It seems that in most cases, the spouses are resigned to a pretty humdrum existence.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Vega said:


> I concur.
> 
> If a someone cheats on a test in school, we don't buy the excuse that the *reason* the cheater cheated was because the teacher was "mean" to him/her during the school year.
> 
> ...


Nobody is questioning any of this. I believe that my opening statement was correct, for the purpose of this question. Both parties, in a bad marriage, are responsible for it's state. The cheater is 100% responsible for the cheating, nobody disputes this, but they are very seldom responsible for all marital issues.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Vega said:


> If they're unaware of what they are doing is wrong, then WHY ARE THEY *HIDING* IT FROM THEIR SPOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
> 
> Truth is, that even GRADE SCHOOL KIDS understand the pain of betrayal.
> 
> ...


At the risk of upsetting people who are irritated by my story my wife did not hide her cheating. She told me in advance of her plans to have an affair but she promised to come back to me once her 'fling' was over.

And that's exactly what she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Given that the blame for cheating is ALWAYS on the cheater. There are a great many BS's who contributed to the cheating by their conduct in the marriage , BEFORE, the affair took place. Few are completely blameless.
> Sooo...my question is, why go through all of the drama, pain and mistrust, and attempt to rebuild that old clunker of a marriage? Why don't BOTH the WS and the BS learn from their bad, and do better next time?


Because many do not learn from "their bad" and do not do better the next time. 
Statistics show that there is a worse chance of a second and third marriage working because all the toxic baggage is carried into the next relationship.
If you have been with someone for 20 years or more, isnt it better to have a go at making yourselves better people individually and hopefully a better marriage than throw it away and start all over again? 
Often the same problems or different problems will arise again, the same betrayals, etc. in the next relationship. Of course if one or both partners don't see the value in that, then that is up to them.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

And another one, marriage is a covenant not a contract. 
Contracts can be broken but a covenant is something much deeper.
In a covenant one party keeps their end of the deal regardless of what the other party does, (painfully sometimes). In a contract one party violates the contract, the contract becomes null and void


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

aine said:


> And another one, marriage is a covenant not a contract.
> Contracts can be broken but a covenant is something much deeper.
> In a covenant one party keeps their end of the deal regardless of what the other party does, (painfully sometimes). In a contract one party violates the contract, the contract becomes null and void


I consider the religious aspects of marriage to be subjective and arbitrary, and therefore of far less validity than the legal aspects. So the difference between a "covenant" and a "contract" are only in the eye of the beholder. I have never considered the bonds of matrimony to be "Sacred".


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Being a Christian man I view marriage as a union. Contracts usually have an ending date, and can be modified and or broken. A union is different than a contract. Just my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I think it CAN happen with the same people, but this is, in my opinion, very rare. It seems that in most cases, the spouses are resigned to a pretty humdrum existence.


Here (TAM) there are people who R successfully. IRL, while I know a number of people in R (including some that are very long-term) I can count only maybe a couple who are actually happy. Staying together (even loving someone) doesn't always mean you can put things back together. 

It's, unfortunately, difficult to successfully repair a marriage after infidelity. There's a lot of hard work involved and the failure rate is high. The ones who succeed are to be sincerely congratulated.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> At the risk of upsetting people who are irritated by my story my wife did not hide her cheating. She told me in advance of her plans to have an affair but she promised to come back to me once her 'fling' was over.
> 
> And that's exactly what she did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She may not have hidden her cheating Matt, but does that mean that she didn't "cheat"?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Here (TAM) there are people who R successfully. IRL, while I know a number of people in R (including some that are very long-term) I can count only maybe a couple who are actually happy. Staying together (even loving someone) doesn't always mean you can put things back together.
> 
> It's, unfortunately, difficult to successfully repair a marriage after infidelity. There's a lot of hard work involved and the failure rate is high. The ones who succeed are to be sincerely congratulated.




So true. I can see that I am happier then I was at this time last year. It is very hard work and a long process. Both spouse have to be committed and willing to make changes no matter how difficult, how humiliating, and fight like your life depends on it. We are doing better, I still have my moments, but our MC is very happy with our progress. I am too along with my WW. The part I have finally accepted is that I will be in reconciliation until my marriage ends. Whether that's tomorrow, next year, or thirty years from now, reconciliation doesn't end. I am good with that, it means more communication and a better marriage, my goal to begin with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

drifting on said:


> So true. I can see that I am happier then I was at this time last year. It is very hard work and a long process. Both spouse have to be committed and willing to make changes no matter how difficult, how humiliating, and fight like your life depends on it. We are doing better, I still have my moments, but our MC is very happy with our progress. I am too along with my WW. The part I have finally accepted is that I will be in reconciliation until my marriage ends. Whether that's tomorrow, next year, or thirty years from now, reconciliation doesn't end. I am good with that, it means more communication and a better marriage, my goal to begin with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Better you than me. If I thought that my future would be one long progression of issues and hard effort.....I would definitely quit. I do not want my marriage/relationship to be a struggle.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Better you than me. If I thought that my future would be one long progression of issues and hard effort.....I would definitely quit. I do not want my marriage/relationship to be a struggle.


I think every relationship has issues, some more severe then others, and communication, well effective communication is difficult for me. Each relationship is a leap of faith as you can't control your partner, so I'll stay with what I know as opposed to what I don't. I honestly couldn't love someone enough for marriage again, my best choice is to repair what we have. It has gotten better and I feel that will continue with the actions she has shown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

The, so far, unspoken part of all this is, of course, that the cheating/affair has now become a permanent part of your marriage.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I think every relationship has issues, some more severe then others, and communication, well effective communication is difficult for me. Each relationship is a leap of faith as you can't control your partner, so I'll stay with what I know as opposed to what I don't. I honestly couldn't love someone enough for marriage again, my best choice is to repair what we have. It has gotten better and I feel that will continue with the actions she has shown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To use Matt/Matt's automotive analogy. Do I want to try a new car, or stick with an old one, that I already know is undependable. I'm not that afraid to try new things, I guess.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Vega said:


> She may not have hidden her cheating Matt, but does that mean that she didn't "cheat"?


You raise a very interesting question.

What is your answer to your own question?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

could depend on the circumstances of the marriage. If the BS does have some of the blame in a bad marriage, recognizes it, and is capable of moving past the WS affair then they may have a shot at reconciliation. 

Or the nature of the affair. Was this a year of lies and deceit or was this a drunken one night encounter that went too far?

That's a lot of ifs though. Truth is people stay for all kinds of reasons. Divorce is scary. You really don't know how things will pan out on the other side... The saying the devil you know is better than the one you don't comes to mind.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> To use Matt/Matt's automotive analogy. Do I want to try a new car, or stick with an old one, that I already know is undependable. I'm not that afraid to try new things, I guess.


I wouldn't use an automotive comparison but if I absolutely had to, it would be a classic car I would never get rid of. As for fear of the unknown or afraid to try new things, I do that every day anyway, no fear. With the people I deal with, others wouldn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> could depend on the circumstances of the marriage. If the BS does have some of the blame in a bad marriage, recognizes it, and is capable of moving past the WS affair then they may have a shot at reconciliation.
> 
> Or the nature of the affair. Was this a year of lies and deceit or was this a drunken one night encounter that went too far?
> 
> That's a lot of ifs though. Truth is people stay for all kinds of reasons. Divorce is scary. You really don't know how things will pan out on the other side... The saying the devil you know is better than the one you don't comes to mind.



Wolf,

Dead on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Which is scarier? Divorce or staying married to a cheater, who has already proven that they cannot be trusted? Also, which is worse, trying something new or accepting a broken hand-me-down (plan B)? I made my choice but am interested in the choices of others and what motivated them.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I know some couples who are "reconciled" and talked to some of them, when I was considering divorce. Very , very, few considered themselves "happy", most used some form of the expression" making the best of a bad situation". Didn't sound like anything I would be interested in, so I divorced.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Which is scarier? Divorce or staying married to a cheater, who has already proven that they cannot be trusted? Also, which is worse, trying something new or accepting a broken hand-me-down (plan B)? I made my choice but am interested in the choices of others and what motivated them.


Staying in a marriage is scarier as your always going to be living on egg shells wondering if they will ever to it again... It would consume me... When the trust is gone there is nothing left in my book.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Which is scarier? Divorce or staying married to a cheater, who has already proven that they cannot be trusted? Also, which is worse, trying something new or accepting a broken hand-me-down (plan B)? I made my choice but am interested in the choices of others and what motivated them.




Rookie4

This discussion could go on for years, and I frankly don't have years to discuss this issue with you. However, you stated your opinion and now here is my final opinion. I chose what is best for me overall. It isn't one particular thing, such as staying for the kids, I'm scared of divorce, I'm afraid to ask a woman on a date, I'm too lazy to stop eating potato chips and get off the couch to retain a lawyer, or any other argument you may think of. I know my situation better then you, you may disagree and I'm fine with that, I will not lose any sleep over you stating an opinion. You stated you wanted to know what motivated someone to reconcile. Didn't you ask the couples you spoke to? 

As for me, I have chosen reconciliation, I'm good with my decision. Whatever you happen to type as a response to say I'm wrong and you're right won't phase me at all. Just like if I told you it was a mistake to divorce. I highly doubt when your head hits the pillow tonight you're going to lie awake and curse at me, drifting on, for keeping you from sleeping. It just won't happen. But your opinion is your opinion you aren't right or wrong, neither am I. If divorce was best for you and you found peace and happiness then I feel all warm and tingly inside. I have made the correct decision for my case, it's that simple. Perhaps I'm stronger and wiser for being able to live this way then you ever could be. Nobody will ever know. 

I believe people can change, I have myself. I know my WW can, and has. She made a terrible choice, I don't dispute that, but she is human and we have corrected what needs correcting. Whatever you have to say about it is basically mute. You don't know the situation. I've never posted my story so you could only come up with assumptions of what is or is not the truth. As far as what motivated me to reconcile is that together my wife and I are great. We have infidelity to work through and we are both strong enough to make it. So if we become a success story in reconciliation what will you say? Will you tell me I'm still scared? Will you tell me I'm wrong for choosing this path? Will you say my only choice should have been divorce because that's what you did and therefore it must be right? 

I don't advocate for divorce or reconciliation, I support what the poster wants to do. It's they're life and they're decision to make solely. I support them, I rarely berate them and I apologize when I'm wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Rookie4
> 
> This discussion could go on for years, and I frankly don't have years to discuss this issue with you. However, you stated your opinion and now here is my final opinion. I chose what is best for me overall. It isn't one particular thing, such as staying for the kids, I'm scared of divorce, I'm afraid to ask a woman on a date, I'm too lazy to stop eating potato chips and get off the couch to retain a lawyer, or any other argument you may think of. I know my situation better then you, you may disagree and I'm fine with that, I will not lose any sleep over you stating an opinion. You stated you wanted to know what motivated someone to reconcile. Didn't you ask the couples you spoke to?
> 
> ...


I agree. That says it all I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I agree. That says it all I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks MattMatt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Rookie4
> 
> This discussion could go on for years, and I frankly don't have years to discuss this issue with you. However, you stated your opinion and now here is my final opinion. I chose what is best for me overall. It isn't one particular thing, such as staying for the kids, I'm scared of divorce, I'm afraid to ask a woman on a date, I'm too lazy to stop eating potato chips and get off the couch to retain a lawyer, or any other argument you may think of. I know my situation better then you, you may disagree and I'm fine with that, I will not lose any sleep over you stating an opinion. You stated you wanted to know what motivated someone to reconcile. Didn't you ask the couples you spoke to?
> 
> ...


First off, it's "moot", not "mute" > Moot is a debating point, mute is silence. Secondly, I was not talking about your specific situation, at all. It might be better to leave the chip off your shoulder. My questions were general and was not directed at any specific person. I can readily understand that you disagree with me, but I wasn't beratng you or anybody else.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Which is scarier? Divorce or staying married to a cheater, who has already proven that they cannot be trusted? Also, which is worse, trying something new or accepting a broken hand-me-down (plan B)? I made my choice but am interested in the choices of others and what motivated them.


Posted by rookie4; First off, it's "moot", not "mute" > Moot is a debating point, mute is silence. Secondly, I was not talking about your specific situation, at all. It might be better to leave the chip off your shoulder. My questions were general and was not directed at any specific person. I can readily understand that you disagree with me, but I wasn't beratng you or anybody else.


By your words quoted above, this is what you are saying my wife and I are. By your words I am a "broken down hand me down (plan B)." My wife is a known cheat, and can't be trusted, according to you. I admit the affair made me broken, I don't know of anyone who wasn't. I have worked very hard to recover, and I've made good progress. I'm slowly becoming what I was. According to most posters it takes two to five years to get through this. I'm at fifteen months. Your statements whether a blanket statement or in general do specifically state I am a broken down plan B. are you thinking I can't change? I can't become what I once was? Or will I forever be a broken down plan B? 

You made your choice, divorce, but it might not be the correct decision for everyone. You follow that with a question of what motivated someone to reconcile. Just prior to that you say a cheat is a cheat and can't be trusted, and the BS is a broken down plan B. Why would you ask? You would never reconcile, and that's fine, but why ask as you will only argue anyone who responds. I have seen this before from you in other threads where you just keep arguing thinking your right. It's an opinion Rookie, that's it, an opinion. I think your general statement as you say it was, is wrong, so I disputed it and then you say I have a chip on my shoulder. I don't care if we agree or disagree, but if you make a general statement that is a put down then expect some grief over it. 

As for the English language and moot and mute, my subtle, general hint went uncomprehended by you. I do actually know the difference between moot and mute. Shocking isn't it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

You seem to have a very high opinion of your importance to this thread. Well...you're not.
For your info, I did not start this thread with you (or anybody else) specifically in mind. I don't know you , and do not remember ever having interacted with you. I do not know your specifics, and am really not that interested in finding out about it.
My points are for general discussion, only. Any similarity between my comments and any particular poster is purely coincidental.
But this little aside does illustrate the importance of the decision to R or D. In my opinion, a couple (BS and WS) should think long and hard about attempting to R, at least as long and hard as any decision to divorce.
It is my opinion, that the decision to R is likely to cause more long-term trouble than otherwise. I think that the law of diminishing returns, applies here. Sooooo....what is it worth to all of you? And why?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BTW, as far as "moot" and "mute", you obviously don't understand the difference, because if I stood "mute" you wouldn't be here, arguing, would you? I started this thread.....remember?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Rookie you tried R for about a year after you divorced (which in my opinion is probably the better way to attempt R).
I got the sense it wasn't a total wast of time or was it?
you seemed to really put forth the effort to try it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I would add that some affairs fall into the "Cry for help" suicide category. The WS would really rather fix the relationship too but can't get any traction for whatever reason, but then makes a stupid decision.

That person can still be rehabilitated with their current spouse who he or she really would rather have been with in the first place.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> BTW, as far as "moot" and "mute", you obviously don't understand the difference, because if I stood "mute" you wouldn't be here, arguing, would you? I started this thread.....remember?


A mute person can still type ya know.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> The cheater is 100% responsible for the cheating, nobody disputes this, but they are very seldom responsible for all marital issues.


Many people relate cheating to the state of the marriage, when, in fact, cheating is a _separate_ issue from marital issues. 

Marital issues and/or the behavior of the BS does not "contribute" to the WS's decision to cheat.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Vega said:


> Many people relate cheating to the state of the marriage, when, in fact, cheating is a _separate_ issue from marital issues.
> 
> Marital issues and/or the behavior of the BS does not "contribute" to the WS's decision to cheat.


That depends on your definition, I guess.

The BS can be primarily responsible for setting up the conditions in which the WS must make a choice.

So while which choice the WS makes is on him alone, marital issues may absolutely contribute to the pain point which makes a choice inevitable. A WS may make the wrong choice, but may well have been set on the ledge by his spouse. 

To say otherwise is to imply that a BS can do anything they want in a marriage and bear no responsibility at all for what then happens.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> That depends on your definition, I guess.
> The BS can be primarily responsible for setting up the conditions in which the WS must make a choice.


Not true. 



> So while which choice the WS makes is on him alone, marital issues may absolutely contribute to the pain point which makes a choice inevitable.


Again, not true. Regardless of what the BS does during the marriage, the WS ALWAYS has other options besides cheating, including D-I-V-O-R-C-E. 



> To say otherwise is to imply that a BS can do anything they want in a marriage and bear no responsibility at all for what then happens


The BS is responsible for his/her behavior. The WS is responsible for his/her behavior. If either party is behaving poorly, the other spouse has a variety of options available that have nothing to do with cheating.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Cletus said:


> That depends on your definition, I guess.
> 
> The BS can be primarily responsible for setting up the conditions in which the WS must make a choice.
> 
> ...


That "but" makes everything before it untrue. I think there are several places along the way that a WS might find an "out". One choice is an affair. The AP may well make them feel like they are safe. In reality, how many AP's ever make it to marraige and the rest of life? 

This does not excuse what the BS did during the marriage. They might have been the devil incarnate, but we still have a choice. 

Most AP's are predators. Some may well think they are a KISA. I bet many WS think they are, until after the divorce and then the KISA usually lets them down gently, ever to be known as their personal savior. What's bad is, no one will ever match them, even a new man. That KISA will always be their first choice and hold a special place in their heart because they were there at the most difficult time in her life. 

Makes finding out early and putting a stop to it with exposure and harsh treatment all the more important. Seems like it would just about make them crazy, too. The BS must know they had something to do with the problems. They can't believe they were innocent, just not responsible for the affair.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

convert said:


> Rookie you tried R for about a year after you divorced (which in my opinion is probably the better way to attempt R).
> I got the sense it wasn't a total wast of time or was it?
> you seemed to really put forth the effort to try it.


Absolutely, Convert. We (my ex and I) tried as hard as two people could, to reconnect and get the feelings back that we once had. But , like the old saying,"You can't go home again".
Was it a waste of time and effort? No....I think it taught both of us the value of a good relationship and the maintenance work needed to keep it going.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I would add that some affairs fall into the "Cry for help" suicide category. The WS would really rather fix the relationship too but can't get any traction for whatever reason, but then makes a stupid decision.
> 
> That person can still be rehabilitated with their current spouse who he or she really would rather have been with in the first place.


I agree, it's possible, but think it unlikely to be very satisfying.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Vega said:


> Many people relate cheating to the state of the marriage, when, in fact, cheating is a _separate_ issue from marital issues.
> 
> Marital issues and/or the behavior of the BS does not "contribute" to the WS's decision to cheat.


 I don't believe this. Anything that happens in a marriage , contributes to it's general condition. Each and every action has it's re-actions and/or consequences.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Vega said:


> Not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think that you and Cletus are in disagreement. Both of you are saying that the partners in a marriage have choices, but sometimes they make bad ones.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> That "but" makes everything before it untrue. I think there are several places along the way that a WS might find an "out". One choice is an affair. The AP may well make them feel like they are safe. In reality, how many AP's ever make it to marraige and the rest of life?
> 
> This does not excuse what the BS did during the marriage. They might have been the devil incarnate, but we still have a choice.
> 
> ...


On the whole, I agree with this. However, sometimes the WS isn't looking for a knight in armor, just a little compassion and interest.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I could understand unhealthy BS' behavior contributing to divorce.

I can't see how it can contribute to having sex with someone else. Just not comprehending the cause and effect relationship here.

Sex is ultimately a rewarding past-time, most people engage for it for their own sake. This makes me seriously question whether anyone can be "driven" to have sex with a stranger.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

snap said:


> I could understand unhealthy BS' behavior contributing to divorce.
> 
> I can't see how it can contribute to having sex with someone else. Just not comprehending the cause and effect relationship here.
> 
> Sex is ultimately a rewarding past-time, most people engage for it for their own sake. This makes me seriously question whether anyone can be "driven" to have sex with a stranger.


I think some HDs probably have a different opinion on this topic if they have had to deal with a refusing partner...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

snap said:


> I could understand unhealthy BS' behavior contributing to divorce.
> 
> I can't see how it can contribute to having sex with someone else. Just not comprehending the cause and effect relationship here.
> 
> .


Exactly! If the marriage is THAT BAD, then GET OUT! It makes no sense to stay in a 'bad' marriage. If you're THAT unhappy, you leave. Plain and simple. 

It's like working for a 'bad' boss. if your boss is terrible, and making your life miserable, you don't blow up the company, run your boss over with your car, or steal from the payroll: You QUIT! Plain and simple.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> On the whole, I agree with this. However, sometimes the WS isn't looking for a knight in armor, just a little compassion and interest.


And, certainly they have a right to compassion and interest, if they can find it. They have a right to cheat, separate, divorce, go to counseling, or just talk. I'm not disputing their feelings, nor desires. I'm not invalidating their feelings and desires. 

What I am saying is, they chose the path they took. If someone is desiring compassion and interest, the lack of it didn't occur to them in an instant. It took time. They may have spoken to the uncaring spouse along the way. They may have made their needs known. 

What they didn't do, was decide to divorce, or separate, go to counseling and some may have done all of those except the first two and separation is a gray area, because the rules of it are usually dependent on what each of the spouses agree upon as boundaries while separated. One may have a hard boundary on dating while separated. 

The point is, even when she feels badly and believes she has been made to feel that way, she still had to decide whether to cheat or not. 

Basically, s/he wanted to cheat. It was more important than other choices available. This goes for men or women. Men can feel like their needs weren't met, too. They cheat to get those met. They chose that because it was most important. They can get the divorce later, if needed.


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## RaceGirl (Apr 13, 2015)

Yup, fear here. I'm afraid to raise my boys by myself without their dad. And, I don't want to pick another a hole man.


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