# Is it really true what they say about house work? Thinking of testing it



## ReformedHubby

Before I even discovered TAM I would come across articles from time to time with very different opinions about men doing house work. Some were of the opinion that doing more house work should get you more sex/affection because the assumption was that married women were too tired for sex. Other articles asserted that men who did less or no house work would get more sex without really stating why. It wasn't until I discovered TAM that I was introduced to the theory that house work makes a man less attractive.

In my relationship I've always played the role of the workaholic provider. As a result my wife never really expected me to do much of anything around the house because I always worked a minimum of 12 hours a day. Things are changing for me now. I don't put in as many hours and I've noticed that when I do something as simple as hand cleaning a pot or two after dinner my wife is so appreciative of it. I'm curious about testing the theory on house work. If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?

Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much. Couldn't there be other things that killed the attraction? Interested in opinions.


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## Miss Taken

I won't speak for other women but I know that a man that cleans is definitely NOT a turn off. One of the things I liked about him when we started dating is that he cleaned and was a good cook. When I'm working full time, the housework is split almost equally. When I'm not working, he still does a little cooking and cleaning here and there but I do most of it. It's a way to show he appreciates what I do around the house. Just as my letting him have an hour to himself after work without me or the kids nagging him is a way I show appreciation for him going to work all day. If he didn't do any, I'd feel unappreciated/taken for granted. 

Since acts of service are rated very highly by some people, not doing any housework might have a negative impact on the marriage. I don't really buy into no chores = more sex. For me it would have the negative effect as like I said, I'd feel taken for granted.


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## naiveonedave

based on what i have read, here and on TAM, less housework = more sex, at least to a point. In my experience, if I do the "manly" house work and minimal "traditional women's work", I get more sex, all else being equal. 

I think that most women respond more positively to traditional roles than they will admit.


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## Omego

My husband is a workaholic provider also. I work less, and I work from home. I don't expect him to do anything around the house because I don't think it would be fair. When he does, I'm very appreciative also but it's more that I'm appreciative of the gesture because he doesn't really know how to do household tasks efficiently. One thing that I do find so very nice is when he calls from work and asks if he should pick up some groceries. Usually, I don't need him to do so, but I think it's nice that he asks.

He's a great guy in this respect. He often says "You do so much, I guess I should do more around the house." He may just be saying this, but it's nice to hear. He is appreciative of what I do, and doesn't take anything for granted. 

On the rare occasions that he's home from work early, or not at work, it actually stresses me out. I don't want him to get involved in the household. I guess I'm a control freak, but I run things the way I like, so no it wouldn't make me happy if he starting cleaning or doing stuff like that. However, if I ASK him to do something around the house (fix stuff, hang lights, etc.) I do expect it to be done when I ask, which he does for the most part, and this does make me happy.

On the theme of attraction: I think it's attractive when a man does something he enjoys doing. It doesn't matter what it is. I think it's sexy that my H can fix or build just about anything because you can see that he enjoys doing it. It's not sexy if a man does something because he feels obliged. It is attractive, however, when a man tries to please his wife. So if helping out in the house makes her happy, it's a very romantic gesture!


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## Disenchanted

One woman that I am dating says that watching me do dishes dries her up. Just sayin'.


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## Faithful Wife

I frequently come home to this type of scene...and yes, it makes me LOVE him to bits! But he would do this even if single because he's a clean freak.


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## Hope1964

Disenchanted said:


> One woman that I am dating says that watching me do dishes dries her up. Just sayin'.


What do the other women you're dating say??

I can see it working both ways. If the guy is a slob and sits around while she does everything, she's going to resent it and want to have less to do with him. But if he's constantly cleaning everything in sight, she could find that to be a comment on her abilities and find it less attractive. Or, if he's always asking her what he can do to help her out, it sounds needy and cloying and less attractive. If they just kind of agree on who does what, they both pitch in and do it, and there's never really any discussion about it, it could just be neutral and not increase or decrease his attractiveness.

How attracted I am to my husband has a lot more to do with how well he meets ALL of my needs. And doing housework isn't really one of them.


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## Fozzy

I'm thinking it would probably get you more traction if you spend time doing things that she feels really ought to be your job. In other words, if you're busting your *ss vacuuming and dishes, but she's ticked off because she's carting the trash out in the meanwhile...you still lose.

TLDR--probably ok to do her stuff, as long as you've done your stuff first.


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## Disenchanted

Hope1964 said:


> What do the other women you're dating say??


OH YES! YES! YES!! MORE MORE MORE!!!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself.

She does like it when I take out the garbage, fix things, lift things, flex, pick her up, throw her down, etc etc

They all do


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## Dad&Hubby

Disenchanted said:


> One woman that I am dating says that watching me do dishes dries her up. Just sayin'.


And yet, it hasn't been unheard of in my marriage for me to get a reach around while I'm washing some dishes. Just sayin'.

In my house, my wife and I don't "quantify" the work as man's work or woman's work. It's just work that needs to be done that is stopping us from spending quality time together.

We do have some "standard" stuff, like I do most of the outdoor stuff, but she helps and she does most of the laundry. Aside from that we share everything. Who ever cooked, the other does the dishes. If two things need to get done, we divide and conquer.

This issue does create a conundrum. If a TOTAL alpha male, who is 100% NOT a "mr. nice guy" is single....what does he do with the dishes or with his laundry? I guess he either hires a female housekeeper or he just throws out the dishes, because garbage is man's work. I'd HATE to see what his bathroom looks like though. youch!!


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## Disenchanted

Dad&Hubby said:


> This issue does create a conundrum. If a TOTAL alpha male, who is 100% NOT a "mr. nice guy" is single....what does he do with the dishes or with his laundry? I guess he either hires a female housekeeper or he just throws out the dishes, because garbage is man's work. I'd HATE to see what his bathroom looks like though. youch!!


Not really a conundrum. She says "you aren't sexy doing dishes" I say "oh yeah! you think you're in charge? you're not!"

and I do them in spite of her, lol


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## DoF

If you are doing housework and your woman is turned off/doesn't appreciate it......that should tell you that you are with the wrong woman.



Any decent woman would LOVE to have her husband give her a hand/help out etc.


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## Disenchanted

Okay in all honesty and seriousness, I have found that when I treat a woman the way she loves to be treated, she likes to serve and wait on me. It brings her joy. But treating a woman the way she wants to be treated is a whole lot more work then doing a couple of dishes.


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## Rowan

Dad&Hubby said:


> ....what does he do with the dishes or with his laundry? I guess he either hires a female housekeeper or he just throws out the dishes, because garbage is man's work. I'd HATE to see what his bathroom looks like though. youch!!


If you'd like to see, I still have a key to the house my ex-husband got in the divorce. He has a cleaning lady come in twice a week, because he does absolutely no housework other than his laundry (which she irons). He now pays the equivalent of a decent car payment per month for cleaning, and he still complains about the house being a mess.


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## Anonymous07

Disenchanted said:


> One woman that I am dating says that watching me do dishes dries her up. Just sayin'.


Hmm... Honestly, I think it's pretty sexy when my husband does the dishes. Something about the way he stands there shirtless and hand washes the pots/pans with a sponge.

Although, really, it's not so much about him doing certain chores. It's more about him being willing and able to help me out when I feel overwhelmed with things around the house. 

I don't expect my husband to do a whole lot of cleaning, but there are days when I really appreciate him pitching in. We have a young child and there are days when I can't always get everything done. He doesn't have to do "manly" things, just help out with what needs to be done without me asking. I'm fine fixing things on my own, taking out the garbage, etc. If the dishes need to be done and I'm tired from a long day, it means a lot when he steps in to help.


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## Hope1964

DoF said:


> If you are doing housework and your woman is turned off/doesn't appreciate it......that should tell you that you are with the wrong woman.
> 
> 
> 
> Any decent woman would LOVE to have her husband give her a hand/help out etc.


Why? Shouldn't that just be the way it is, without either one having expectations one way or the other?? I don't LOVE it when my husband does chores. And he doesn't LOVE it when I do. We just do them because they need to be done. Neither of us tells the other one what to do and when to do it or how to do it. I don't thank him for doing it and he doesn't thank me. It's the same as going to work - we both do it and it's just a fact of life - we don't LOVE it when the other one goes to work.


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## Dad&Hubby

Disenchanted said:


> Not really a conundrum. She says "you aren't sexy doing dishes" I say "oh yeah! you think you're in charge? you're not!"
> 
> and I do them in spite of her, lol


You winz the internetz today!

I think you just made a star in *Alpha* Centauri go supernova.


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## Disenchanted

You have to stimulate a woman's emotions (read...HORMONES) to get lots of sex. And you will NEVER do that by listening to her (or any woman) tell you what she wants, sorry ladies.

A woman will never give you the key to her arousal, because she doesn't even know what that key is. But when you turn it, she'll do all the un-masculine housework with a smile and give you all the sex you want.

Doing dishes laundry and vacuuming do not increase dopamine in a woman. It may have a small affect on oxytocin but it sure isn't exciting.

Now, here comes the angry women, have at it!


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## ocotillo

ReformedHubby said:


> Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much. Couldn't there be other things that killed the attraction? Interested in opinions.


I wonder if the man that turns his wife off by doing housework is (metaphorically speaking) wearing her apron to do it? 

Perhaps it's not the household task so much as the manner in which it is done. You can put a masculine flavor on most of them 

One of my friends thought it was a little funny one evening when I was starting dinner, but he got real damn quiet when I pulled out a 12" restaurant grade chef's knife that I can literally shave with. (The kind that butchers wear a chain mail glove on their off hand to use.)


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## Faithful Wife

I don't do any housework, I just wear the apron and nothing else...seems to get me a lot of sex!


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## DoF

Hope1964 said:


> Why? Shouldn't that just be the way it is, without either one having expectations one way or the other?? I don't LOVE it when my husband does chores. And he doesn't LOVE it when I do. We just do them because they need to be done. Neither of us tells the other one what to do and when to do it or how to do it. I don't thank him for doing it and he doesn't thank me. It's the same as going to work - we both do it and it's just a fact of life - we don't LOVE it when the other one goes to work.


Not exactly sure what you are trying to get at here.

Subject at hand is, does giving your wife a hand turns them on or turns them off. If it does neither for both of you guys, why even post it?

:scratchhead:


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## samyeagar

ocotillo said:


> I wonder if the man that turns his wife off by doing housework is (metaphorically speaking) wearing her apron to do it?
> 
> Perhaps it's not the household task so much as the manner in which it is done. You can put a masculine flavor on most of them
> 
> One of my friends thought it was a little funny one evening when I was starting dinner, but he got real damn quiet *when I pulled out a 12" restaurant grade chef's knife that I can literally shave with. (The kind that butchers wear a chain mail glove on their off hand to use.*)


I do most of the cooking in our house, and my STBW has flat out said she thinks it's sexy as hell, and she gets turned on watching what I can do with a knife...


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## Disenchanted

Couples who share the housework are more likely to divorce, study finds - Telegraph

I think that doing chores can be indicative of the type of behavior a man employs. It's not so much the chores themselves that are the issue, it's the overarching behavior.

A man who thinks doing the dishes will get him in his wife's pants is not only dishonest but also a doormat.

That is the real issue here.


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## SpinDaddy

ReformedHubby said:


> Before I even discovered TAM I would come across articles from time to time with very different opinions about men doing house work. Some were of the opinion that doing more house work should get you more sex/affection because the assumption was that married women were too tired for sex. Other articles asserted that men who did less or no house work would get more sex without really stating why. It wasn't until I discovered TAM that I was introduced to the theory that house work makes a man less attractive.
> 
> In my relationship I've always played the role of the workaholic provider. As a result my wife never really expected me to do much of anything around the house because I always worked a minimum of 12 hours a day. Things are changing for me now. I don't put in as many hours and I've noticed that when I do something as simple as hand cleaning a pot or two after dinner my wife is so appreciative of it. I'm curious about testing the theory on house work. If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?
> 
> Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much. Couldn't there be other things that killed the attraction? Interested in opinions.



At the Casa de Spin my doing chores, like cleaning up after dinner and etc., means that we might actually have time for sex.

If it were me, I’d shy away from doing the Pavlovian-like experiments to see if you can get more sex. 

Most women are clever enough to figure out what’s going on and then what’s going to happen . . . . you’ll have to do chores all the time to get sex.


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## ocotillo

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't do any housework, I just wear the apron and nothing else...seems to get me a lot of sex!


Well there's always that! 

What I had in mind was a man who needs direction and supervision because he's not much better than a twelve year old around the house.

I'm sure Gordon Ramsey could cook for most women my wife's age (At least) and it wouldn't be a turn-off at all....


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## FormerSelf

I think it comes down to what men do for approval. If a man is simply doing chores/ sharing the family workload...that is a pretty benign thing and can often be appreciated by the woman.

On the other hand, if there is friction in the relationship and the male is doing chores to obtain approval...then the female will probably find a reason to negatively interpret his domestic endeavors. If someone gets turned off by someone doing chores...then the relationship was probably headed south to begin with.


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## Faithful Wife

Reformed Hubby....I had the impression you guys have plenty of sex...so in your case, would there actually be any difference if you do or don't? Maybe I do not fully remember your story.

Ocotillo....both my H and I work full time so chores either of us do isn't something that relieves the other of any burden, so in our case, this is all just fun and games and housework has literally zero effect on our desire for each other. The reason I love it when I come home and H has the house all cleaned up (and is standing there at the door like in that picture) is because I know it will make HIM feel more at ease...being a clean freak means that he is on edge if things aren't "just so"...and he takes care of that need himself, doesn't expect me to keep things at his own "just so" level. So basically, HE makes himself more relaxed and ready for sex by doing housework. Score for me! (as I need nothing to be ready for sex except HIM being ready for it)


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## Hope1964

DoF said:


> Not exactly sure what you are trying to get at here.
> 
> Subject at hand is, does giving your wife a hand turns them on or turns them off. If it does neither for both of you guys, why even post it?
> 
> :scratchhead:


I was responding to your post, not the OP. Specifically your assertion that "Any decent woman would LOVE to have her husband give her a hand/help out etc."


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## SadSamIAm

Doing housework will help if you haven't been doing it.

But once you have done it for a while it won't have any effect on the amount of sex you have.

For some women it might eventually lead to less sex because she might see you as less manly.


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## WyshIknew

I don't think it is about 'doing dishes' it is just (for me anyway) about not being her b1tch.

I often do dishes, partly because if I leave them to Mrs Wysh she would happily chuck my best knives and pans into the dishwasher.

I also do some laundry on occasion but only loads that she has sorted as my poor wittle male brain gets lost on temperature and coloureds etc.
I hate hanging the washing out as it always sets off my sneeze reflex.
One thing I definitely agree with Athol Kay on is that your mum used to do your laundry and you don't want your wife to feel like your mum!



Q. What is pink, wrinkly and hangs out your boxers?

A. Your mum!


I agree with the other poster/s that mentioned that they often get groped when doing housework. Although Mrs Wysh often does it with freezing cold hands so she can hear me squeal like a little girl.

I don't know what is regarded as a lot of sex but I'm late 50's and I'm on the nest every two days.


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Reformed Hubby....I had the impression you guys have plenty of sex...so in your case, would there actually be any difference if you do or don't? Maybe I do not fully remember your story.
> 
> Ocotillo....both my H and I work full time so chores either of us do isn't something that relieves the other of any burden, so in our case, this is all just fun and games and housework has literally zero effect on our desire for each other. The reason I love it when I come home and H has the house all cleaned up (and is standing there at the door like in that picture) is because I know it will make HIM feel more at ease...being a clean freak means that he is on edge if things aren't "just so"...and he takes care of that need himself, doesn't expect me to keep things at his own "just so" level. So basically, HE makes himself more relaxed and ready for sex by doing housework. Score for me! (as I need nothing to be ready for sex except HIM being ready for it)


This sounds very much like my STBW and I. As I said, I do most of the cooking, and really prefer a clean, organized kitchen when I do it, so I make sure it is taken care of so I can feel more at ease.

When it comes to other chores like laundry, vacuuming, we both have the attitude along the lines of put it off until later so we can have sex now.


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## Rowan

I think you want to stay away from extremes. If you're a guy who does nothing around the house ever, that's not going to lead to hot sex. If you're a guy who does everything around the house always, that's not going to lead to hot sex. I think the best bet is for each couple to find an equitable distribution of labor that works for both of them.


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## anchorwatch

Fridays were my wife's late and most stressful days. I'd have the house ship shape, with dinner and her crown & coke waiting. Instead of listening to the "you just don't get it" whine, I got plenty of appreciation. It worked for me. 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ocotillo

samyeagar said:


> I do most of the cooking in our house, and my STBW has flat out said she thinks it's sexy as hell, and she gets turned on watching what I can do with a knife...


Do you have a preference for steel? I've tried the Shun (Damascus steel) stuff that Alton Brown pedals and Messermeister Meridian Elite which was highly touted by a local knife shop and been disappointed with both. --Finally gave up on stainless altogether.


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## MaritimeGuy

I believe a woman will receive a man doing housework because he wants to be helpful differently that a man who does housework expecting a BJ in return. If she gets the sense you're only doing it to get something it may work against you.


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## Faithful Wife

I just feel sad for people who are married who have to do tricks to "get sex" or to feel wanted...I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it? I'm sure this will get me in trouble but it is always a head scratcher to me.


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## samyeagar

ocotillo said:


> Do you have a preference for steel? I've tried the Shun (Damascus steel) stuff that Alton Brown pedals and Messermeister Meridian Elite which was highly touted by a local knife shop and been disappointed with both. --Finally gave up on stainless altogether.


All of my good knives are Sheffield


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> I just feel sad for people who are married who have to do tricks to "get sex" or to feel wanted...I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it? I'm sure this will get me in trouble but it is always a head scratcher to me.


Because everything else is always beyond perfect doncha know


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## ocotillo

Faithful Wife said:


> I just feel sad for people who are married who have to do tricks to "get sex" or to feel wanted...I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it? I'm sure this will get me in trouble but it is always a head scratcher to me.


I hear you, but wonder if it's more shades of grey than purely black and white here. If you gained fifty pounds and quit brushing your teeth, would that affect your sex life? Deep down inside, you would still be "You," right?

At some point, the things we do (Or don't do) affect the perceptions of others. I agree that nobody should have to jump through hoops though.


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Reformed Hubby....I had the impression you guys have plenty of sex...so in your case, would there actually be any difference if you do or don't? Maybe I do not fully remember your story.


No problems in the sex department. The issue is now that I have spare time what do I do with it? It just feels wrong coming home and kicking it with the kids while she does pretty much everything for us. I figured if I helped out more she might like that. Its not about getting more sex, but about being a more helpful husband.

I'd be lying if I said that all the stuff I read on here wasn't in the back of my mind.


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## Faithful Wife

ocotillo said:


> I hear you, but wonder if it's more shades of grey than purely black and white here. If you gained fifty pounds and quit brushing your teeth, would that affect your sex life? Deep down inside, you would still be "You," right?
> 
> At some point, the things we do (Or don't do) affect the perceptions of others. I agree that nobody should have to jump through hoops though.


Well, I'm not sure how to answer this...I personally would not feel sexy if I gained weight and didn't brush my teeth and I wouldn't find my H sexy in that state, either...and I wouldn't have any problem saying "hey, no sex until this changes!"

I was just talking about marriages where one spouse KNOWS the other just isn't into them (for whatever reason, but assuming not just a recent or short-term change) and they will want to "get sex" from them.

This doesn't apply to Reformed, and I realize that...I was just sayin'.


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## samyeagar

ReformedHubby said:


> No problems in the sex department. The issue is now that I have spare time what do I do with it? It just feels wrong coming home and kicking it with the kids while she does pretty much everything for us. I figured if I helped out more she might like that. Its not about getting more sex, but about being a more helpful husband.
> 
> *I'd be lying if I said that all the stuff I read on here wasn't in the back of my mind*.


That's the problem with all that crap, and I have found myself wondering from time to time as well. So much of it feels conflicting to my very nature. In the end, I always just do what I feel is the right thing to do, what comes naturally to me, be myself. I would have to say, I have been a raging success with that strategy.


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## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> marriages where one spouse KNOWS the other just isn't into them (for whatever reason, but assuming not just a recent or short-term change) and they will want to "get sex" from them.


Men are visual creatures.


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## samyeagar

Disenchanted said:


> Men are visual creatures.


Well spotted. So are women.


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## Faithful Wife

Sam and Reformed....do you mean "all the stuff I read on here" as in, "this or that will get you more sex?"

I would have guess/assumed that both of you know quite well how to have all the sex you want in your relationships...I'm confused. Do you mean, you are hoping you might get something other than sex? Like more admiration or more respect or have her be more attracted to you?


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## DvlsAdvc8

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm curious about testing the theory on house work. If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?


I don't think its about doing or not doing housework. Its about shared effort, connection and your attitude/persona. I think it only has a negative implication when its done for exchange, or to excessively cater.

If you do more housework to get sex - the deal-making persona you assume in this scenario is apparent and unattractive - don't be surprised when it doesn't work.

I suspect things have looked better for you because you're at work less and around her more to keep the connection strong. Not doing or not doing housework.


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## DesertRat1978

Doing all or part of the housework may or may not get you more sex. I have been doing 99% of it for about 2 years and all it has got me is disappointment and lots of solo sessions. If your wife is complaining about your lack of effort in this dept then it may be a good idea. Just keep in mind that it is not the miracle cure. It is just one strategy or approach that you can use.


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## Disenchanted

samyeagar said:


> Well spotted. So are women.


Not even in a remotely similar way, in this context, they aren't.

But thanks anyway.


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam and Reformed....do you mean "all the stuff I read on here" as in, "this or that will get you more sex?"
> 
> I would have guess/assumed that both of you know quite well how to have all the sex you want in your relationships...I'm confused. Do you mean, you are hoping you might get something other than sex? Like more admiration or more respect or have her be more attracted to you?


For me, reading all the NMMNG, MAP, be ALPHA, all the things we should and shouldn't do. I am getting everything I want and need and more sexually and otherwise in my relationship, so absolutely no complaints in that department.

It's just that when you keep hearing things that are counter in many respects to the way you have been doing them, you can't help wonder a bit if maybe you really are doing something wrong, even when the results are very clear that you are not. I am just self aware enough to realize that I shouldn't change a damn thing.


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## Faithful Wife

Hey tyler! Where ya been? How are you? Do you have a baby now?


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## Faithful Wife

Disenchanted said:


> Not even in a remotely similar way, in this context, they aren't.
> 
> But thanks anyway.


Hubby can wear just the apron...trust me...in this context it is THE SAME. HUBBA HUBBA Husband...Yeow Baby!....whoooooo flash me what's underneath that! Now do a little dance for me, yeah that's RIGHT! Here's a dolla.


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## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> Hubby can wear just the apron...trust me...in this context it is THE SAME. HUBBA HUBBA Husband...Yeow Baby!....whoooooo flash me what's underneath that! Now do a little dance for me, yeah that's RIGHT! Here's a dolla.


Obviously your husband has a whole lot more going for him with you then just his looks.


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## Faithful Wife

True, but the way he looks is what makes me fantasize about him constantly. Hunk city!


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Hubby can wear just the apron...trust me...in this context it is THE SAME. HUBBA HUBBA Husband...Yeow Baby!....whoooooo flash me what's underneath that! Now do a little dance for me, yeah that's RIGHT! Here's a dolla.


My STBW will sometimes just sit there and stare if I am cooking, no shirt on, barefoot, jeans hanging just low enough on my hips to let her know I am commando, belt undone...yeah...she likes that...


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## Disenchanted

If he was a total a-hole would you still fantasize about him?


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## DesertRat1978

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey tyler! Where ya been? How are you? Do you have a baby now?


Hello, how are you? Work was insanely busy during tax season. About lost my mind being the head honcho over a free tax service. If I would have came on here, I would not have had much to say and what little I did have to say would have been depressing. 

Yes, we do. He came into the world on March 13. He is beautiful and has been quite the blessing. Sleep is hard to come by but he is worth it.


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## Disenchanted

Congratulations on the new baby!!


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## samyeagar

Disenchanted said:


> If he was a total a-hole would you still fantasize about him?


That's the funny thing about women who can separate the emotional from the physical...absolutely they would...


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## Faithful Wife

Yes, I totally would...he's a hottie and a half, whether a jerk or not!


----------



## Disenchanted

samyeagar said:


> That's the funny thing about women who can separate the emotional from the physical...absolutely they would...


Actually she already answered this question with her initial question which was:



Faithful Wife said:


> I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it?


Men can easily have sex with someone who isn't into him based purely on looks.


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, I totally would...he's a hottie and a half, whether a jerk or not!


You just contradicted yourself then, not very congruent



Faithful Wife said:


> I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it?


----------



## ocotillo

Faithful Wife said:


> I was just talking about marriages where one spouse KNOWS the other just isn't into them (for whatever reason, but assuming not just a recent or short-term change) and they will want to "get sex" from them.


I think you've hit the nail on the head here, but wonder how many people "Know" (Emphatically enough to put it into all caps ) that the other just isn't in to them. 

Even at the worst point in my marriage, there were still things that would get her in the mood. Frozen margaritas often worked wonders and we did manage to have two more children after things went south.

It's so darn easy to fall into the trap of thinking it all hinges upon you and your actions and if you just find the magic combination, all will be right again.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Disenchanted said:


> You just contradicted yourself then, not very congruent


But you asked if I would still FANTASIZE about him if he was a jerk, not if I would want to be married to him or have sex with him.


----------



## samyeagar

Disenchanted said:


> You just contradicted yourself then, not very congruent



Just because the guy's a douche doesn't mean she's not into him physically. My STBW has made itpretty clear that even if Iwas a bigold bowl of douche soup, she'd stil think I was pretty damned yummy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> But you asked if I would still FANTASIZE about him if he was a jerk, not if I would want to be married to him or have sex with him.


but nothing, you asked why someone would want to have sex with another if that person wasn't into them. I replied, men like to have sex based on looks, and inferred that it might be more difficult for women to do that because they have needs that preclude sexual arousal


----------



## Disenchanted

samyeagar said:


> Just because the guy's a douche doesn't mean she's not into him physically. My STBW has made itpretty clear that even if Iwas a bigold bowl of douche soup, she'd stil think I was pretty damned yummy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well great, then you know the answer to FW's question too, which was, "why would someone have sex with someone who isn't into them"


----------



## Faithful Wife

Disenchanted said:


> Men can easily have sex with someone who isn't into him based purely on looks.


Right, but they don't typically want to MARRY a woman who only looks good but isn't into him.

As for a ONS with a hot stranger?

Both men and women are down for that, jerk or not. Obvi, as it happens all the time.

I personally would not want to have sex with a hot jerk, but I have in the past anyway....not really sure what you are getting at? Oh I get it, the whole "men are this way and women are that way" thing. Gotcha.


----------



## Disenchanted

glad you too could figure out the answer to the question!

bravo!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Disenchanted said:


> well great, then you know the answer to FW's question too, which was, "why would someone have sex with someone who isn't into them"


IN MARRIAGE.

Feel free to mock or jerk me around, but at least get my points straight before you do.


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> Right, but they don't typically want to MARRY a woman who only looks good but isn't into him.
> 
> As for a ONS with a hot stranger?
> 
> Both men and women are down for that, jerk or not. Obvi, as it happens all the time.
> 
> I personally would not want to have sex with a hot jerk, but I have in the past anyway....not really sure what you are getting at? Oh I get it, the whole "men are this way and women are that way" thing. Gotcha.


wrong, actually what I am getting at is that even though my wife was a nasty person who mistreated me, I still wanted sex with her cause she was hawt!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

ocotillo said:


> I think you've hit the nail on the head here, but wonder how many people "Know" (Emphatically enough to put it into all caps ) that the other just isn't in to them.
> 
> Even at the worst point in my marriage, there were still things that would get her in the mood. Frozen margaritas often worked wonders and we did manage to have two more children after things went south.
> 
> It's so darn easy to fall into the trap of thinking it all hinges upon you and your actions and if you just find the magic combination, all will be right again.


I think when your spouse truly isn't into you, you do know.

So in your case, if you didn't know, then she was still into you.


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> IN MARRIAGE.
> 
> Feel free to mock or jerk me around, but at least get my points straight before you do.


not mocking you or jerking you around, just pointing out (now) that you had the answer to your question before you asked it, apparently


----------



## Faithful Wife

Disenchanted said:


> not mocking you or jerking you around, just pointing out (now) that you had the answer to your question before you asked it, apparently


My question about the "into you" part was specifically about "within a marriage" and I was meaning a long term situation where your spouse is not into you.

I understand what you are saying, that some people will want sex with their spouse regardless of their disposition...but please keep it real...in a long term, sexless, haven't been into you for years type situation...even if you do want to have sex with them, clearly it is just to get off and not for the real good connected MUTUALLY sexually attracted part of sex.

Or...just go with what you said, I'm sure you are not actually discussing this with me you are just bantering for some reason.


----------



## Faithful Wife

tyler1978 said:


> Hello, how are you? Work was insanely busy during tax season. About lost my mind being the head honcho over a free tax service. If I would have came on here, I would not have had much to say and what little I did have to say would have been depressing.
> 
> Yes, we do. He came into the world on March 13. He is beautiful and has been quite the blessing. Sleep is hard to come by but he is worth it.


Welcome back, and congrats! I know you'll enjoy parenthood...with all of its ups and downs.


----------



## DesertRat1978

Back to the topic,

There is no miracle cure for getting more sex. Not one thing does the trick. It is a combination of things. There are a lot of elements that come into play. Each one of them related to the other in some way. Doing the housework when viewed in isolation is of no value. How it fits with the whole picture is what is relevant.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Are you getting more sex, tyler? I hope so!


----------



## Disenchanted

I don't understand your hostility. You asked a question and I answered it from my own experiences.

Here, let me do it again in a way that might not upset anyone:



Faithful Wife said:


> I mean, if you aren't into each other (one or both of you) what is the point of being married? Or why would you even WANT to have sex with someone who isn't into you, and you know it?


Well, you see, I was in a sexless marriage for 11 years. The fact that my wife was not into me and didn't treat me affectionately didn't deter my sexual interest. I still would become aroused by her simply from the visual stimulus she provided.

Now, I understand why YOU might not understand that because from what I undertand women do not have that same reaction, but I dunno, you're the woman and you are the one who asked!

This is simply MY experience.


----------



## DesertRat1978

Faithful Wife said:


> Are you getting more sex, tyler? I hope so!


Sadly, no. I am not giving up. Not sure what I will do but that will come in time. At the moment, it has been six months since the last time and she is even less interested now than ever.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I get ya, Disenchanted.

I would still be *aroused* by my husband simply by visual stimulus, as well. I wouldn't want to have sex with him because I don't want to have sex with someone I'm married to who *isn't into me*, but not because I wasn't aroused by him. Just simply because I don't have sex with people who aren't into me ... it just ain't that fun for me...but I wouldn't really know as I have never done it with someone who I perceived wasn't into me sexually. In order for me to be aroused IN THE ACT, I can't also be knowing "this person isn't into you".

But that wouldn't stop me from being aroused by them and fantasizing about them if they were sexually attractive to me.

And them being a jerk wouldn't necessarily stop me from having sex with them, depending on the circumstances.

But them not being into me?

I wouldn't be able to get chick wood for that, at all.

Have never experienced it though so...I'm just speculating.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Oh tyler...I'm sorry to hear that. Dang.


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> I get ya, Disenchanted......


Well I was trying to be friendly in answering what you asked because it has existed in my past so I thought I could help answer it.

I am a visual creature, and even though my wife was not into me _I_ still wanted to have sex with her. Even when I was mad at her _I_ still wanted to have sex with her. Even when she was mad at me _I_ wanted to have sex with her.

Because she is hawt! And that is my answer to your question.


----------



## DesertRat1978

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh tyler...I'm sorry to hear that. Dang.


Giving it until the end of the year so until then I should stop complaining and try to make it work. Enough about that.


----------



## Disenchanted

Faithful Wife said:


> But them not being into me?
> 
> I wouldn't be able to get chick wood for that, at all.


And this speaks to my point, I think most guys can get wood simply based on visual stimulus.

Women need a man who doesn't do the chores. lol kidding


----------



## ocotillo

tyler1978 said:


> Giving it until the end of the year so until then I should stop complaining and try to make it work. Enough about that.


No helpful advice here, (I just don't have any...) but I do feel your pain.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam and Reformed....do you mean "all the stuff I read on here" as in, "this or that will get you more sex?"
> 
> I would have guess/assumed that both of you know quite well how to have all the sex you want in your relationships...I'm confused. Do you mean, you are hoping you might get something other than sex? Like more admiration or more respect or have her be more attracted to you?


What I meant by all the stuff I read on here is that pretty much the majority of the sexless guys do a lot of housework. As ridiculous as it sounds I wonder if there is a tipping point. If I were to pitch in more at what point if any would it become a turn off? One example of how little I used to do is that I've got three kids and I may have changed two diapers in my entire life. So me doing anything would be a pretty drastic change.

Regarding her attraction to me its very high, so I don't think helping out more could make it go up, but I do wonder if it would make it go down because we've always held very traditional roles. However, now that I'm working less I would like to pitch in more on the home front. It only seems right. I ain't doing anything else.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Dis, again please don't change what I said/meant.

I would still WANT to have sex, my body would be so happy about it...but the moment I saw on his face that he was like "ew" or whatever (ie: not into me sexually) it would drain my blood away.

And I know many men who feel the same and would not have sex with a women in those conditions...that doesn't mean they wouldn't get a boner thinking about it or jerk off while picturing her.

And it doesn't mean I wouldn't either.

It is just a matter of pride.

The moment a sex partner made it clear, in whatever way, that they weren't into me, my MIND would take over and stop the sex show and shut the blood off. My body would have happily ignored this information and gone forward with it.

So your "men are this way and women are that way" doesn't really work here. My husband would never have sex with me again if he thought I wasn't into him. Why should he when he has only been with women who are totally hot for him and he knows that how sex is done right?


----------



## samyeagar

Disenchanted said:


> And this speaks to my point, I think most guys can get wood simply based on visual stimulus.
> 
> Women need a man who doesn't do the chores. lol kidding


This may or may not be true, but me personally, visual isn't enough. I see hot chicks all the time and don't get wood. My STBW however...just seeing her, even if she is in her work scrubs...bam...instant wood...and she's totally into me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Disenchanted

I am not interested in your provocations with controversial questions in an attempt to get into hostile exchanges.


----------



## Cosmos

For me, a man not doing his share around the house would be a complete turn off. On the other hand, a man who is responsible around the home makes me feel more connected to him.


----------



## Disenchanted

samyeagar said:


> I see hot chicks all the time and don't get wood.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What if they were naked or scantily clad in your home? You would not be aroused?

I don't get you two, why do you keep provoking me? I just answered the question from my own experiences. And you are both somewhat attacking me for it.

Guys want to have sex with their wives even once their wives have checked out of the marriage, it's not a mystery. Nor is it a valid question, apparently. Everyone already knows the answer to it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> This may or may not be true, but me personally, visual isn't enough. I see hot chicks all the time and don't get wood. My STBW however...just seeing her, even if she is in her work scrubs...bam...instant wood...and she's totally into me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My H is like that, too....I mean, hotties are everywhere and yeah your body might react to it...but when you've had sex with someone who is totally into you versus just someone who is hot but not into you, why would you ever go back? :scratchhead:

Reformed Hubby, I see what you meant now. You were going the opposite direction, as in, you don't want to be seen as less-manly or less attractive if you do pitch in more.

I'm pretty sure you'll be safe.


----------



## ocotillo

ReformedHubby said:


> What I meant by all the stuff I read on here is that pretty much the majority of the sexless guys do a lot of housework. As ridiculous as it sounds I wonder if there is a tipping point. If I were to pitch in more at what point if any would it become a turn off? One example of how little I used to do is that I've got three kids and I may have changed two diapers in my entire life. So me doing anything would be a pretty drastic change.


I still think the point where she becomes your supervisor (Regardless of whether it is real or imagined) could be a tipping point here. There's a big difference between being surprised and/or wowed by your efforts vs. being expectant and critical of them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Dis...I'm fine with your answers...I'm not provoking you or attacking you, ok? Chill, dear!


----------



## samyeagar

Disenchanted said:


> What if they were naked or scantily clad in your home? You would not be aroused?
> 
> I don't get you two, why do you keep provoking me? I just answered the question from my own experiences. And you are both somewhat attacking me for it.
> 
> Guys want to have sex with their wives even once their wives have checked out of the marriage, it's not a mystery. Nor is it a valid question, apparently. Everyone already knows the answer to it.


Hot naked chicks are a dime a dozen. Even at the strip club with my STBW, hot naked chicks everywhere, tits and a$$ in my face, the sexual energy is intoxicating, but what gets me hard is when she whispers in my ear that she wants to rip my clothes off and runs her hand down my leg. As to the marriage question, my ex wife was hot...5'3 105lb yoga instructor body, and the last four years were sexless...I had no desire to have sex with her at all, even after we separated, she was after me on a daily basis...still nodesire.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Giro flee

I would build up tremendous resentment for my husband if he sat around while I worked from morning until night. I did that for several years before I spoke up and we made a more equitable split of work in the home. Him mowing the lawn once a week is not equivalent to all cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare, etc. 

Not only that but I'm not his freaking mother, so he better step up and help take care of our home and not wait for for me to tell him what to do. Any idiot knows that meals need to be prepared, laundry needs to be washed. Being put in the role of his mother was the least sexy thing I could have ever experienced. He saw me as a nag, I saw him as a lazy child... Not sexy


----------



## Machiavelli

ReformedHubby said:


> If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?


The dose/response relationship is operational. Just because 5-10mg of dianabol safely provides an increase in muscle mass does not mean that 500mg of dianabol will safely provide 5-10X the muscle mass of the lower dose; it will do all kinds of havoc with many bodily systems and will actually kill you, sooner or later.

Are you a bodybuilder? You certainly think like one. ;-)


----------



## samyeagar

RH, honestly, I would totally follow your gut, and not get too deep into your own mind on the alpha, nmmng stuff. It's served you well so far, and you know your wife and marriage better than any book or article. Not everything applies to everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReformedHubby

samyeagar said:


> RH, honestly, I would totally follow your gut, and not get too deep into your own mind on the alpha, nmmng stuff. It's served you well so far, and you know your wife and marriage better than any book or article. Not everything applies to everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed Sam, I think I will try and get creative with it and not over do it. I'll probably just volunteer to cook one night a week. Growing up in the south I don't exactly know how to cook lightly so it will have to be once a week or else everyone might need bypass surgery.


----------



## treyvion

ReformedHubby said:


> Before I even discovered TAM I would come across articles from time to time with very different opinions about men doing house work. Some were of the opinion that doing more house work should get you more sex/affection because the assumption was that married women were too tired for sex. Other articles asserted that men who did less or no house work would get more sex without really stating why. It wasn't until I discovered TAM that I was introduced to the theory that house work makes a man less attractive.
> 
> In my relationship I've always played the role of the workaholic provider. As a result my wife never really expected me to do much of anything around the house because I always worked a minimum of 12 hours a day. Things are changing for me now. I don't put in as many hours and I've noticed that when I do something as simple as hand cleaning a pot or two after dinner my wife is so appreciative of it. I'm curious about testing the theory on house work. If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?
> 
> Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much. Couldn't there be other things that killed the attraction? Interested in opinions.


It's about outer "image"...

Just do enough to let her know you appreciate her efforts, but don't overdo it.


----------



## turnera

ReformedHubby said:


> Before I even discovered TAM I would come across articles from time to time with very different opinions about men doing house work. Some were of the opinion that doing more house work should get you more sex/affection because the assumption was that married women were too tired for sex. Other articles asserted that men who did less or no house work would get more sex without really stating why. It wasn't until I discovered TAM that I was introduced to the theory that house work makes a man less attractive.


You're discussing complicated issues. There's the exhausted working woman who gets fed up being expected to work full time and then come home and work another 4-6 hours while the guy sits on the couch. Then there's the beta guy whose wife gripes so to kiss her ass, he takes it off her hands. Both of these are fails.

Then there's the guy who treats his wife as an equal and actually TALKS to her and agrees WITH her on how they should get everything done, and then does his share. THAT man is hearing his wife, is not going overboard, is respecting the work his wife does but not kissing her ass. HE is attractive.


----------



## ReformedHubby

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't think its about doing or not doing housework. Its about shared effort, connection and your attitude/persona. I think it only has a negative implication when its done for exchange, or to excessively cater.


You might be on to something. I find it hard to believe that I could become less sexy to my wife just by holding a broom. Perhaps the problems happen with other men that do housework because they are doing it specifically because there wife is "too tired" for sex. But the reality is she isn't tired, she just isn't into it anymore.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Wish someone would cook me some bypass surgery-worthy southern food! Day-um.


----------



## turnera

No, I was too tired. lol


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Wish someone would cook me some bypass surgery-worthy southern food! Day-um.


I will send you virtual plate of some of some of my favorites. Even a photo has been known to cause elevated cholesterol levels.


----------



## Anon Pink

ReformedHubby said:


> You might be on to something. I find it hard to believe that I could become less sexy to my wife just by holding a broom. Perhaps the problems happen with other men that do housework because they are doing it specifically because there wife is "too tired" for sex. But the reality is she isn't tired, she just isn't into it anymore.


Bingo!!!!!!

To me, there is no surer way for Mr Pink to get laid than when he takes out the trash AND vacuums the house. Provided he isn't vacuuming because he's "showing me" that he IS engaged in what's going on around here.


----------



## turnera

I remember hearing a news story a bit back where the basic premise is that if you want one way to get your woman hot for you, bake some cookies for her for when she gets home. Will have to see if I can find it.


----------



## sparkyjim

Dad&Hubby said:


> It's just work that needs to be done that is stopping us from spending quality time together.


This....:iagree:

We get the chores done and then we both have energy and time for each other.

If she got turned off by me doing the dishes I know a lot of ways to turn her back on...


----------



## treyvion

samyeagar said:


> Hot naked chicks are a dime a dozen. Even at the strip club with my STBW, hot naked chicks everywhere, tits and a$$ in my face, the sexual energy is intoxicating, but what gets me hard is when she whispers in my ear that she wants to rip my clothes off and runs her hand down my leg. As to the marriage question, my ex wife was hot...5'3 105lb yoga instructor body, and the last four years were sexless...I had no desire to have sex with her at all, even after we separated, she was after me on a daily basis...still nodesire.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why no desire?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Home made cookies AND southern food....yes...yes, I'll have that, thank you! 

Neither my H or I cook so we both salivate at the thought of great cooking.


----------



## samyeagar

ReformedHubby said:


> Agreed Sam, I think I will try and get creative with it and not over do it. *I'll probably just volunteer to cook one night a week*. Growing up in the south I don't exactly know how to cook lightly so it will have to be once a week or else everyone might need bypass surgery.


This is where some of the alpha crap might start to apply...I get your meaning here, but it would probably be good if you don't approach things as if you are doing her a favor. Just make a decision..."I'll make dinner on Tuesday" rather than "What night would you like me to make dinner?" Somewhat similar to watching the kids...a father should never volunteer to "babysit" his kids...


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Wish someone would cook me some bypass surgery-worthy southern food! Day-um.


Not so much Southern, but certainly bypass worthy...I sometimes make a Chicken Cordon Blue variant, and a Chicken Milano variant that each plate probably has 1000 calories and 60 grams of fat...STBW LOVES it, though hates me afterwards


----------



## samyeagar

treyvion said:


> Why no desire?


Because she was NPD and I got fed up trying to fix her. When one goes into self preservation mode within their own marriage, their only desire is to keep what shreds of humanity they can until the right opportunity comes along to leave.


----------



## samyeagar

turnera said:


> No, I was too tired. lol


This just struck me as funny for some reason  Just last night my STBW and I were negotiating the idea of taking the night off from having sex...we were both EXTREMELY tired so were weighing the pros and cons. We are spending tonight at my parents house, and my sisters are going to be there too, so depending on where we end up sleeping, we might have a forced night off, and that was my STBW's point...if there was even close to a 50/50 that we wouldn't get to at my parents, then she absolutely wanted to last night because she didn't think she could make it two days without. I told her I'd make sure we got the spare bedroom at my parents so that wouldn't be a problem...so we had sex anyway, and likely will at my parents as well...


----------



## Cosmos

ocotillo said:


> There's a big difference between being surprised and/or wowed by your efforts vs. being expectant and critical of them.


I'm neither surprised nor wowed by my SO doing his share around the home. I both _expect_ and appreciate it...

I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone who thought they were doing me a favour by helping to clean up after themselves :scratchhead:


----------



## Caribbean Man

Cosmos said:


> I'm neither surprised nor wowed by my SO doing his share around the home. I both _expect_ and appreciate it...
> 
> I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone who thought they were doing me a favour by helping to clean up after themselves :scratchhead:



I'm reading this thread ans saying the exact, same thing!

You do chores at home because you wife is not your maid , and the house belongs to both you and your wife.

That's all.

It has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

Before you were married, did you have to go over to your fiancee's place and cook and clean, for her to have sex with you?
No.
Did she have to do the same for you?
No.
So then how come that is " suddenly" directly linked to sex after marriage?

IMO , the entire premise of that _do-chores-for-sex_concept is false.

Your wife has sex, or does not want to have sex with you for many reasons , respect being #1 on that list, admiration#2 , attraction #3 and it goes on .
Doing chores ranks somewhere at the bottom of that list, in the scrapheaps with other stuff like Old Spice , Spanish Flies and sappy love songs.

As a man, you must take responsibility for your living space whether or not she's having sex with you.

I think that's basic.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> So then how come that is " suddenly" directly linked to sex after marriage?
> 
> IMO , the entire premise of that _do-chores-for-sex_concept is false.


I think its linked because a lot of people didn't live with their spouses before they got married, so the dynamic of who does what can become complicated. Once things become complicated one party could begin to resent the other. Especially when you add kids to the mix that are too young to clean up after themselves like an adult would. Or one spouse works less or more away from the home than the other.

I don't think doing chores would ever lead to more sex (okay, the cookie baking thing might) but I do think not doing your share could lead to resentment which would lead to less sex. I think that's why so many men give it a try by attempting to do even more than their fair share.


----------



## turnera

samyeagar said:


> This is where some of the alpha crap might start to apply...I get your meaning here, but it would probably be good if you don't approach things as if you are doing her a favor. Just make a decision..."I'll make dinner on Tuesday" rather than "What night would you like me to make dinner?" Somewhat similar to watching the kids...a father should never volunteer to "babysit" his kids...


The subtle key here, hubby, is that you don't 'ask' or 'volunteer' - you ACT. "Here, honey (gently taking the spoon out of her hand and giving her a hug), I'm gonna cook tonight. I want to surprise you. Go get a glass of wine and watch tv. I got this (kiss)."

Women would swoon.


----------



## turnera

Cosmos said:


> I'm neither surprised nor wowed by my SO doing his share around the home. I both _expect_ and appreciate it...
> 
> I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone who thought they were doing me a favour by helping to clean up after themselves :scratchhead:


Unfortunately, it is ALL TOO COMMON.


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> As a man, you must take responsibility for your living space whether or not she's having sex with you.
> 
> I think that's basic.


Just read some of the threads here and you'll see that many many men don't share your view. 

I blame it on their mothers. I always said I wanted to have 3 sons so I could raise them to believe as you do, and help out at least 3 women out there, save them from the rest of the men who don't think like you.


----------



## turnera

ReformedHubby said:


> but I do think not doing your share could lead to resentment which would lead to less sex.


Bingo!

This is it, exactly, Hubby. I grew up in the 60s, so I didn't know any better. But today's women should know not to let this go on.


----------



## ReformedHubby

One thing I did do last night was to talk to my wife about what she would think if I helped out more around the house. Like always her answers demonstrated that she knows me even better than I know myself. For starters she feels as though me being at home more is temporary and that I will just throw myself back into work again (she's probably right). 

She also said that above anything else she has enjoyed seeing me interact with the kids more. She says she would prefer I focus on that instead of helping her more, and even suggested that I volunteer to help coach my son's team. 

She did say one thing that was spot on that actually mad me feel kind of bad. She puts a lot of effort into making nutritious dishes with fresh ingredients. I used to make a big deal of everything new she tried and compliment her on it. At some point I just stopped and began to expect it. I will definitely work on that.

In case you can't tell I'm a big believer in the 80/20 thingie. Its one of the reasons why I was looking to see what I could do that I really haven't been doing in our relationship. Focusing more on the kids activities seems like the best suggestion, especially since it came from her.


----------



## turnera

Hubby, have you and your wife filled out the EN/LB questionnaires yet? That would be a good help in all this. Do the LB one first, find out how you're LBing her, and spend the next 2 or 3 months eliminating those bad habits. Once you have that done, then take the EN one and learn how to best meet her top 5 ENs.

Love Busters Questionnaire

Emotional Needs Questionnaire


----------



## Philat

Haven't read the entire thread, so apologies in advance for any redundancy, but:

I have never really understood the issue here. Running a household/family requires that certain things be done, and in my house whoever is in the best position to do this on any given day does it. It's a matter of efficiency, if nothing else. Completely unrelated to sex.

I have sons, and one thing I've tried to teach them is not be be helpless males when it comes to things like cooking and laundry.


----------



## turnera

Unfortunately, many men weren't raised that way. Their mom was all too happy to take care of them and it never occurred to these women what they were doing.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Thanks for the links but I don't think its all that serious. We're both very happy. I'm pretty sure that my wife's biggest need is touch. She is a total cuddle bug. I'm talking stuck to me like one of those suction cup stuffed animals in the back of car windows in the 90s. It can sometimes be a a bit much for me, but...I know what all the non sexual touching leads to so I never complain.


----------



## turnera

Those are not for marriages in trouble. They're for understanding your spouse and enhancing your marriage. They just help you know each other better so you get the stuff that isn't being said out loud. Who knows? It might be fun for her to do it and she might appreciate you more for finding it.


----------



## ReformedHubby

turnera said:


> Unfortunately, many men weren't raised that way. Their mom was all too happy to take care of them and it never occurred to these women what they were doing.


Growing up in the south pretty much everyone I knew was raised this way. There isn't a whole lot domestically that I actually know how to do except cook. I think my wife knows this which is why she isn't expecting me to reinvent myself. Our lives pretty much mirror our families of origin.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> *Just read some of the threads here and you'll see that many many men don't share your view. *
> 
> I blame it on their mothers. I always said I wanted to have 3 sons so I could raise them to believe as you do, and help out at least 3 women out there, save them from the rest of the men who don't think like you.


Interesting.

Are you saying that this might actually be something cultural?


I posted this on another thread.
Hope OP doesn't think I'm hijacking his thread.

When I was a little boy, my mom , took me into the kitchen and taught me to cook. From then onward I've had a love affair with the kitchen.

But she also taught me to take responsiblity for myself and surroundings.
Wash my clothes, clean my room, and if by chance I saw anything that was a out out of place in the house, I was supposed to either fix it, or tell her about it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> Hubby, have you and your wife filled out the EN/LB questionnaires yet? That would be a good help in all this. Do the LB one first, find out how you're LBing her, and spend the next 2 or 3 months eliminating those bad habits. Once you have that done, then take the EN one and learn how to best meet her top 5 ENs.
> 
> Love Busters Questionnaire
> 
> Emotional Needs Questionnaire


Good stuff.

We did something similar in our marriage counselling sessions many moons ago.

Think I'll get her to do it again over the weekend.


----------



## samyeagar

I learned to do all the domestic stuff for myself as well. Cook, clean, laundry. I'm pretty badass with an iron, and I can sew pretty well too. Along with all the manly stuff like fixing cars.

My STBW will admit and agree that when it comes to those things, I'm better at it than she is, and she was raised to be the woman of the house, and has always been with men who NEEDED that from her. Comparing our sexual relationship to her past ones, I think there is something to the whole mothering your husband causing loss of sexual attraction.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Are you saying that this might actually be something cultural?
> 
> 
> I posted this on another thread.
> Hope OP doesn't think I'm hijacking his thread.
> 
> When I was a little boy, my mom , took me into the kitchen and taught me to cook. From then onward I've had a love affair with the kitchen.
> 
> But she also taught me to take responsiblity for myself and surroundings.
> Wash my clothes, clean my room, and if by chance I saw anything that was a out out of place in the house, I was supposed to either fix it, or tell her about it.


Not at all a hijack, anything related to why folks feel the way they do (for or against) housework is fair game. Its opinions that I'm interested in.

For me honestly it is cultural. Growing up I was always taught by everyone in my life that my value as a man was really based on what I could provide. In other words if you're a kick a$$ provider everything else will fall into place (I still believe this is true to this day by the way). 

All of my male role models focused on work. My wife's father and my father are the same way. They are around 70 now and still working away for the future even though both are well off. So pretty much providing has been my sole focus, and I've been very good at it. But...being honest we've amassed so much it would be nice to stop and smell the flowers for a moment.


----------



## turnera

Maybe it's a Texas thing, lol. Or maybe it's an age thing. I just know that I know a LOT of men who don't touch a thing.


----------



## Cosmos

samyeagar said:


> I think there is something to the whole mothering your husband causing loss of sexual attraction.


:iagree:


----------



## DoF

Caribbean Man said:


> When I was a little boy, my mom , took me into the kitchen and taught me to cook. From then onward I've had a love affair with the kitchen.
> 
> But she also taught me to take responsiblity for myself and surroundings.
> Wash my clothes, clean my room, and if by chance I saw anything that was a out out of place in the house, I was supposed to either fix it, or tell her about it.


Our parents didn't really do that, BUT now that we have kids.....well when you have kids you realize how F'ed up your parents were (and how great they were too of course).

Anyways, we do apply above to our children. They all do their own clothes from VERY young age (5) and they also cook at leas 1 dinner a week (with my wife's/my assistance of course).

Same for cleaning etc (they heve a list of responsibilities).

This knocks out 2 birds with 1 punch. 
a) teach them valuable lesson in life (takes care of your sheet and contribute to family)
b) takes a LOAD off my wife and I


----------



## Wolf1974

Where I grew up it was you learned to be independent. Cook, clean, do laundry no matter if you were male or female. I have always done 1/2 of the household stuff and I did 100% of the cooking. Never bothered me I love to cook. did that have anything to do with us not having a sexless marriage I will never know.


----------



## melw74

My husband works Full time, so all the housework falls on me, I do not mind as my husband works hard, he provides etc etc, BUT, I am not for one minute saying hes lazy, and yes he does not do much of the housework, he will wash up after the evening meal, and occasionally, and i mean very occasionally he will get the hoover out 

Well anyway, having 5 children and cleaning everything up, Looking after the house can and does get very tiring, so if my husband does something that makes ANYTHING i do in the day easier for me, then yes i do tell him when he does even the Little thing.

I cant really see how housework has anything to do with the amount or lack of sex, I do however believe that a man that is always being nagged day in and day out etc for not doing this and that, Or maybe leaving a pair of dirty socks laying around does get a man down where he may not be bothered with sex with his wife maybe, as the amount of nagging does drag a man down to the point where he cant be bothered.....

Example a friend of mine is always nagging her man over something or other, and you can see the strain on his face.... and to why sometimes he cant be bothered to make the effort, I tried talking to her, but she was not interested so i let her be.


----------



## ReformedHubby

turnera said:


> Maybe it's a Texas thing, lol. Or maybe it's an age thing. I just know that I know a LOT of men who don't touch a thing.


Hmmmm....must be a Georgia thing too. When I think about it. A lot of the behaviors that people associate with being alpha on TAM were pretty much drilled into me as a child, by both my male _and_ female relatives.

I remember I was bullied once when playing outside. I walked home crying to my mother. She grabbed me and shook me and said if you get your a$$ kicked outside. You're going to get it kicked again when you come home. So.....I went back outside and beat the crap out of the kid because momma said so.


----------



## ReformedHubby

melw74 said:


> My husband works Full time, so all the housework falls on me, I do not mind as my husband works hard, he provides etc etc, BUT, I am not for one minute saying hes lazy, and yes he does not do much of the housework, he will wash up after the evening meal, and occasionally, and i mean very occasionally he will get the hoover out


This sounds a lot like us.


----------



## turnera

If I was a housewife, there's no way I would ask my H to do ANY housework. But if we both work full time, it should be an equal distribution. I often suggest that people get a posterboard, write out all things that have to get done around the house, and then take turns picking things they will be responsible for. That way, you get to pick most of the things you'll do that you hate the least, lol. Work your way down the list, until everything's accounted for. If kids are 5 or older, they should be picking something, as is age appropriate.

This way, everyone knows and acknowledges what they'll be responsible for and it reduces the resentment.


----------



## Faithful Wife

What is the 80/20 rule?


----------



## ocotillo

Cosmos said:


> I'm neither surprised nor wowed by my SO doing his share around the home. I both _expect_ and appreciate it...


I'd say that any cook who can't "Wow" you now and then probably needs more practice or maybe even a semester or two in a formal culinary class 

Kudos to you for expressing it without gender bias though. Not everyone does that and subservience is often implied just in the language alone that people employ to describe a male doing domestic tasks. Look at how many times on this very thread its been described as "Helping," "Helping around the house," "Helping out," etc.


----------



## DesertRat1978

I was raised by a strong mother. We were taught to be independent and self sufficient. The man of the house should be able to cook and clean as well as fix the air conditioner and car. The work had to be done and it did not matter who did it. A married couple was a partnership in every way. Housework, finances, the kids, etc. I have carried that mindset into my marriage. 

When the wife’s sex drive went south, I amped up my housework duties. I was figuring that if I made the home life less stressful that she would relax and start wanting sex amongst other things. That was a big fail on my part but still I tried.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> What is the 80/20 rule?


Before I define it I will say that its probably the dumbest rule ever but I buy into it.

The 80/20 rule is the assumption that none of us are a complete 100% match for our spouses. At most we are at about 80%. Meaning that whenever your mate encounters someone with the other 20% it could be tempting to them because its something that you are incapable of offering.

Of course the whole premise of the 80/20 rule is that if one were to leave their spouse for someone that offers the 20 percent they would end up really unhappy in the long run.

This rule has led me to sometimes have an irrational paranoia of the Beta Barry types around my wife. Guys that don't focus on work as much and are more attentive than I am. Men who share more emotionally than I do, and in the case of this thread men who do more house work. It doesn't help that most of my wife's male friends in the past were this way, in particular her co-workers when she used to work. However, I am more like her father and mine. I sometimes wish I could be a bit softer and thoughtful in a natural way that doesn't come across like I'm trying.


----------



## ReformedHubby

turnera said:


> If I was a housewife, there's no way I would ask my H to do ANY housework. But if we both work full time, it should be an equal distribution. I often suggest that people get a posterboard, write out all things that have to get done around the house, and then take turns picking things they will be responsible for. That way, you get to pick most of the things you'll do that you hate the least, lol. Work your way down the list, until everything's accounted for. If kids are 5 or older, they should be picking something, as is age appropriate.
> 
> This way, everyone knows and acknowledges what they'll be responsible for and it reduces the resentment.


Well, she is a house wife so perhaps she sees it as her job. I offered to get her maid service multiple times but she declines it every time.


----------



## ocotillo

ReformedHubby said:


> This rule has led me to sometimes have an irrational paranoia of the Beta Barry types...
> 
> ....in the case of this thread men who do more house work.


So what does that make you, my friend? An Alpha Alfred?


----------



## SadSamIAm

tyler1978 said:


> I was raised by a strong mother. We were taught to be independent and self sufficient. The man of the house should be able to cook and clean as well as fix the air conditioner and car. The work had to be done and it did not matter who did it. A married couple was a partnership in every way. Housework, finances, the kids, etc. I have carried that mindset into my marriage.


Don't you feel there was a double standard. That men are supposed to do everything, but women do the traditional 'women's' work?

My wife is a SAHW. She does virtually all the cleaning, cooking, etc. but I know how to do it and help occasionally. But if a faucet is dripping or a light needs replacing or a car needs to be looked at, I am expected to do it. I have never been trained to be a plumber, electrician, carpenter or mechanic. But over the years I have learned. My wife could have learned as well. But it wasn't 'her job'. 

There are are 'our jobs' and 'my jobs'. If i lend a hand with one of the things she normally does and screw up, then I am put down. But if she asks me to help with the computer (for the upteenth time) and I was to say anything to make her feel incompetent, there would be hell to pay.

Not really complaining as 'it is what it is'. I just see a double standard.


----------



## ReformedHubby

ocotillo said:


> So what does that make you, my friend? An Alpha Alfred?


Alfred? Ehhh....not manly enough. Lets go with something stronger like Apollo or Achilles. 

Totally kidding. On a serious note I've never subscribed to titles. I just know what personality attributes I have and which ones I wish I had more of.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> Before I define it I will say that its probably the dumbest rule ever but I buy into it.
> 
> The 80/20 rule is the assumption that none of us are a complete 100% match for our spouses. At most we are at about 80%. Meaning that whenever your mate encounters someone with the other 20% it could be tempting to them because its something that you are incapable of offering.
> 
> Of course the whole premise of the 80/20 rule is that if one were to leave their spouse for someone that offers the 20 percent they would end up really unhappy in the long run.
> 
> This rule has led me to sometimes have an irrational paranoia of the Beta Barry types around my wife. Guys that don't focus on work as much and are more attentive than I am. Men who share more emotionally than I do, and in the case of this thread men who do more house work. It doesn't help that most of my wife's male friends in the past were this way, in particular her co-workers when she used to work. However, I am more like her father and mine. I sometimes wish I could be a bit softer and thoughtful in a natural way that doesn't come across like I'm trying.


Awww....that's cute! What I'm really reading you say is, "I want to make sure no one is beating my time" (an old saying, usually applicable during courtship). You are acknowledging that your wife is still a beautiful woman that some man might try to poach, so you are looking for ways to keep your game up. Two thumps up from me on that, sir! :smthumbup:


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Awww....that's cute! What I'm really reading you say is, "I want to make sure no one is beating my time" (an old saying, usually applicable during courtship). You are acknowledging that your wife is still a beautiful woman that some man might try to poach, so you are looking for ways to keep your game up. Two thumps up from me on that, sir! :smthumbup:


Mate guarding...something way too many people are afraid to do...


----------



## ocotillo

ReformedHubby said:


> Alfred? Ehhh....not manly enough. Lets go with something stronger like Apollo or Achilles.


_Credat idiota, non ego._

Mostly kidding myself, but I do have a mental picture of someone like Robert Irvine (Or even myself even in my aged state) cast as a Beta Barry.  That's why I pointed out early on in this thread that you can put a masculine spin on most any domestic task.


----------



## jld

I haven't read all the responses, but I think it is wonderful for men to help with housework. It sure makes me feel loved, anyway. And anything that makes me feel loved is going to increase my libido.


----------



## ReformedHubby

ocotillo said:


> _Credat idiota, non ego._
> 
> Mostly kidding myself, but I do have a mental picture of someone like Robert Irvine (Or even myself even in my aged state) cast as a Beta Barry.  That's why I pointed out early on in this thread that you can put a masculine spin on most any domestic task.



Jacking my on thread here but it would be funny if there actually was a poster on TAM named Beta Barry. We do have a few folks who post in character around here. Arbitrator comes to mind. Barry's avatar could be a photo of Snuggle's the bear. He'd probably get torn to shreds in most threads if he did exist.


----------



## turnera

ReformedHubby said:


> Well, she is a house wife so perhaps she sees it as her job. I offered to get her maid service multiple times but she declines it every time.


Then housework is not what you need to do to get her in tune.


----------



## turnera

SadSamIAm said:


> Don't you feel there was a double standard. That men are supposed to do everything, but women do the traditional 'women's' work?
> 
> My wife is a SAHW. She does virtually all the cleaning, cooking, etc. but I know how to do it and help occasionally. But if a faucet is dripping or a light needs replacing or a car needs to be looked at, I am expected to do it. I have never been trained to be a plumber, electrician, carpenter or mechanic. But over the years I have learned. My wife could have learned as well. But it wasn't 'her job'.


If you were fixing drains and changing oil 20+ hours a week, every week, you'd have a point. But I doubt you do that, do you?


----------



## ReformedHubby

turnera said:


> Then housework is not what you need to do to get her in tune.


One would assume this but I've always suspected she turns down maid service because she is so frugal. I honestly think it would make her life easier.


----------



## turnera

LB and EN questionnaires might help you figure that out.


----------



## WyshIknew

I really enjoy cooking, and I love cooking for my wife so I do about 90% of the cooking, I also do most of the shopping.

Some of my 'work'











Mrs Wysh does 90 to 95% of the laundry, we both clean where necessary.

It works for us.


----------



## ReformedHubby

WyshIknew said:


> I really enjoy cooking, and I love cooking for my wife so I do about 90% of the cooking, I also do most of the shopping.
> 
> Some of my 'work'


Wow dude, impressive. That's not food. Its edible art.


----------



## turnera

lol, my H thinks he's being treated when I make pork chops covered with a can of cream of mushroom soup.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Uh YUMMMMM!!!!! You're invited to my house anytime Wysh!


----------



## DesertRat1978

Good work, Wysh. I am not a bad cook but nowhere near that skill level. My skill set is barbeque and Mexican. I cook those and the wife makes the desserts and Asian cuisine. Not a bad tradeoff.


----------



## WyshIknew

I think every marriage is different. Behaving, at times, a little what some here would call beta seems to work for us.

But I will not accept, as one poster mentioned, Mrs Wysh nagging, she gets short thrift with that, and I hate being told "you always do this", "you never do that". It is one thing where she is guaranteed to be told to wind her neck in.
I am also doing the house rebuild myself so I am as likely to be seen with a kango (jack hammer) as a food processor.


----------



## ocotillo

Very nice, Wysh. Visions of that cake are going to be dancing in my head the rest of the day now.


----------



## ReformedHubby

WyshIknew said:


> I am also doing the house rebuild myself so I am as likely to be seen with a kango (jack hammer) as a food processor.


:allhail:

You're my hero man. Skills for whatever life throws at you. The James Bond of husbands!


----------



## turnera

My husband can - and has - rebuild an entire house, plumbing, electrical, everything. Unfortunately, he expects me to be right by his side the whole time. And also unfortunately, he won't pay anyone else to do any of it, since he (we) can do it himself (ourselves). Also unfortunately, I usually have to wait 5 years before any of the projects get done.


----------



## WyshIknew

turnera said:


> My husband can - and has - rebuild an entire house, plumbing, electrical, everything. Unfortunately, he expects me to be right by his side the whole time. And also unfortunately, he won't pay anyone else to do any of it, since he (we) can do it himself (ourselves). Also unfortunately, I usually have to wait 5 years before any of the projects get done.


:rofl:


Ah yes, ahem, cough cough.


*sidles away whistling while looking guilty.*


----------



## Cosmos

ocotillo said:


> I'd say that any cook who can't "Wow" you now and then probably needs more practice or maybe even a semester or two in a formal culinary class
> 
> Kudos to you for expressing it without gender bias though. Not everyone does that and subservience is often implied just in the language alone that people employ to describe a male doing domestic tasks. Look at how many times on this very thread its been described as "Helping," "Helping around the house," "Helping out," etc.


Oh, my SO wows me all the time with his culinary skills, and I'm very fast to tell him so. We both love cooking and like to grade our efforts on a scale of 1-10; he's usually a 10 

SO also gets a ton of appreciation and thanks from me for doing DIY etc. I was referring more to house work.


----------



## anchorwatch

My Good Friday dinner, ready for when she gets home. 









Believe me I'm no Betty Beta. My dad was a rough guy. Yet, I always saw him working with my mom in the kitchen So I never thought of it as something one does to appease someone. It's just something one did, like anything else around the home. DW and I never spoke about what chores belonged to who. We just did them. We did take on roles that we were comfortable with, but we always jump in and get things done so we can both have free time to enjoy. Isn't that common sense? Who'd want to be intimate knowing there's nothing but work waiting. 

BTW, Wysh I almost got penis envy looking at those dishes.


----------



## hookares

I don't mind sharing the load when it comes to making living quarters suitable for occupation. However, I have had my fill of women who let everything go to hell and expect me to find a clean spot on which to sit. Did that for over twenty years.
Never again.


----------



## SadSamIAm

turnera said:


> If you were fixing drains and changing oil 20+ hours a week, every week, you'd have a point. But I doubt you do that, do you?


My point didn't have anything to do with how much time is spent doing anything.

My point is that there is a double standard. 

I know there are exceptions, but the general feeling is ...

There are many things that the husband and wife should both do (cook, clean, laundry, groceries, etc.).

There are also a number of things that only the husband is expected to do. (fixing cars, plumbing, carpentry, etc.)

There are very few things if any that only the wife is expected to do. (breast feed, ???)


----------



## Caribbean Man

anchorwatch said:


> My Good Friday dinner, ready for when she gets home.
> 
> View attachment 21625
> 
> 
> Believe me I'm no Betty Beta. My dad was a rough guy. Yet, I always saw him working with my mom in the kitchen So I never thought of it as something one does to appease someone. It's just something one did, like anything else around the home. DW and I never spoke about what chores belonged to who. We just did them. We did take on roles that we were comfortable with, but we always jump in and get things done so we can both have free time to enjoy. Isn't that common sense? Who'd want to be intimate knowing there's nothing but work waiting.
> 
> BTW, Wysh I almost got penis envy looking at those dishes.


Wow Anchor!

I'm liking the pie,

But I loving the bottle of Belvedere Vodka too!
lol!


----------



## ocotillo

Caribbean Man said:


> Wow Anchor!
> But I loving the bottle of Belvedere Vodka too!
> lol!



The lemon on the cutting board and the hourglass jigger suggests it's not just ornamental either...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

The day my husband starts doing my Housework.. is the day I have gotten too lazy..... I work about 10 hours a week out of the house , he works 40 Plus...last 3 weeks 52 hours a week....

He works much harder than I do...and I want his focus to be on the things I CAN'T do..(car repairs, the roof, plumbing, chain sawing, etc)... not on the mundane boring dishes, vacuuming, laundry (he's never done a load)...probably hasn't written a check in 15 yrs.. I pretty much do all the cooking too, our teens sons have taking a liking to some cooking/ baking...so this is nice, welcomed..but my H has no need... 

The only time I have wanted him to help me was when I had a baby.. keeping the place clean for my return... or back in the day when I worked as much as him.. we did help each other...

Years ago he wanted more sex from me, what did he do.. go read some stupid article online about doing more housework... when he told me this years ago.. Oh My.. I told him -boy did you read the wrong article to deal with me!! ...That might work for some women (those who have "acts of service" on the top of their love languages)... but I was not one of them.... why would that create a lusty attraction.. seems awfully silly to me...

Being tired was never an issue with me.. ... I would have much rather had him get more FLIRTY, aggressive, show me what he wanted...get sexually creative, shake it up... NOW that would have done wonders!!

But I am mostly just a stay at Home Mom, my activity on TAM can attest, I have too much free time on my hands..


----------



## Caribbean Man

ocotillo said:


> The lemon on the cutting board and the hourglass jigger suggests it's not just ornamental either...


Dude's got style!


----------



## turnera

SadSamIAm said:


> My point didn't have anything to do with how much time is spent doing anything.
> 
> My point is that there is a double standard.


Well, it SHOULD have something to do with how much time is spent. If I was told when I got married that I would be expected to work full time and then come home and work 3 more hours every single night while my husband would only work 30 minutes a week because he knows how to change the oil, you can BET I'd have learned how to change the oil.


----------



## turnera

staarz21 said:


> I find that when my H does decide to help, I am more inclined to get in the mood. I suppose it has to do with getting the chores done and having time to cuddle or spend time together. It's not about the act of him washing a dish or vacuuming the floor. I rarely look at him and go, "you know what...nah...he cleaned the floor...ew". I look at the house and say, "Wow. I don't have anything left to do...Woohoo let's get down and dirty!"


I flat out told my H this recently. I said "you can expect me to do all the work, that's fine. You know I'll do it. But you can't expect me to do all the work and THEN expect me to still have time or energy or inclination to give you a BJ. ... Your choice." He helps now. And he gets sex now.


----------



## SadSamIAm

turnera said:


> Well, it SHOULD have something to do with how much time is spent. If I was told when I got married that I would be expected to work full time and then come home and work 3 more hours every single night while my husband would only work 30 minutes a week because he knows how to change the oil, you can BET I'd have learned how to change the oil.


So we agree! If I am expected to learn to cook, then she should be expected to learn to change the oil.

By the way, changing the oil is much easier than cooking. 

Unscrew a bolt on the oil pan and let the oil drain. Unscrew the oil filter and replace it with a new one. Put the bolt back into the oil pan and then fill the car with oil. 

And yes, the amount of work each spouse does should be equal.


----------



## SadSamIAm

turnera said:


> I flat out told my H this recently. I said "you can expect me to do all the work, that's fine. You know I'll do it. But you can't expect me to do all the work and THEN expect me to still have time or energy or inclination to give you a BJ. ... Your choice." He helps now. And he gets sex now.


This works for women. It doesn't work so well for men.

What if I was to say,

"You can expect me to earn all the money for the household, that's fine. You know I'll do it. But you can't expect me to come home from work and spend the evening doing housework and still have the energy and inclination to give you oral sex. Your choice!"

My guess is it wouldn't result in more sex.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

The only thing that happens when I don't do housework is that the house never gets cleaned.


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## ReformedHubby

SimplyAmorous said:


> The day my husband starts doing my Housework.. is the day I have gotten too lazy..... I work about 10 hours a week out of the house , he works 40 Plus...last 3 weeks 52 hours a week....
> 
> He works much harder than I do...and I want his focus to be on the things I CAN'T do..(car repairs, the roof, plumbing, chain sawing, etc)... not on the mundane boring dishes, vacuuming, laundry (he's never done a load)...probably hasn't written a check in 15 yrs.. I pretty much do all the cooking too, our teens sons have taking a liking to some cooking/ baking...so this is nice, welcomed..but my H has no need...
> 
> The only time I have wanted him to help me was when I had a baby.. keeping the place clean for my return... or back in the day when I worked as much as him.. we did help each other...
> 
> Years ago he wanted more sex from me, what did he do.. go read some stupid article online about doing more housework... when he told me this years ago.. Oh My.. I told him -boy did you read the wrong article to deal with me!! ...That might work for some women (those who have "acts of service" on the top of their love languages)... but I was not one of them.... why would that create a lusty attraction.. seems awfully silly to me...
> 
> Being tired was never an issue with me.. ... I would have much rather had him get more FLIRTY, aggressive, show me what he wanted...get sexually creative, shake it up... NOW that would have done wonders!!
> 
> But I am mostly just a stay at Home Mom, my activity on TAM can attest, I have too much free time on my hands..


Your arrangement sounds a lot like ours. I guess the answer is its different for everybody, and as long as it works its all good. Seems awfully simple, but based on the responses that's my interpretation.


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## ReformedHubby

turnera said:


> Well, it SHOULD have something to do with how much time is spent. If I was told when I got married that I would be expected to work full time and then come home and work 3 more hours every single night while my husband would only work 30 minutes a week because he knows how to change the oil, you can BET I'd have learned how to change the oil.


I agree. In my opinion if both people work full time things should be fairly equal.


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## southbound

ReformedHubby said:


> Before I even discovered TAM I would come across articles from time to time with very different opinions about men doing house work. Some were of the opinion that doing more house work should get you more sex/affection because the assumption was that married women were too tired for sex. Other articles asserted that men who did less or no house work would get more sex without really stating why. It wasn't until I discovered TAM that I was introduced to the theory that house work makes a man less attractive.
> 
> In my relationship I've always played the role of the workaholic provider. As a result my wife never really expected me to do much of anything around the house because I always worked a minimum of 12 hours a day. Things are changing for me now. I don't put in as many hours and I've noticed that when I do something as simple as hand cleaning a pot or two after dinner my wife is so appreciative of it. I'm curious about testing the theory on house work. If a little makes her happy, shouldn't a lot make her really happy?
> 
> Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much. Couldn't there be other things that killed the attraction? Interested in opinions.


I haven't read all these responses, but the topic got my attention. Like you, I had read and heard on talk shows all my life that a guy doing housework was a source of attraction for women. I even read an article once called, "Want to Make Her Horny, Do the Laundry."

I'm sure getting housework done isn't a minus, but not necessarily a "turn on" as the articles would have you believe unless it is their love language.

I spent 18 years cleaning, cooking, changing diapers, and doing all the things that i thought was a plus. I'm sure she was glad she didn't have to do the chores i did, but as far as a turn on to her, no it was not.


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## Thound

I help my wife with house work, because she works just as hard if not harder than I do. It DOES NOT lead to more sex, but it does make us closer. I do it because I love her.


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## over20

My DH works long hours...he provides/protects...and I nurture. We have very clear roles, which we both like. The sight of my DH doing housework lessens his sex rank in my eyes. I have told him as much, it is not sexy at all.....now when he comes home and kisses me deeply, spanks me and asks me to clean his scrubs....and then tells me to join him in the shower.....now that works.......


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## committed4ever

tyler1978 said:


> Doing all or part of the housework may or may not get you more sex. I have been doing 99% of it for about 2 years and all it has got me is disappointment and lots of solo sessions. If your wife is complaining about your lack of effort in this dept then it may be a good idea. Just keep in mind that it is not the miracle cure. It is just one strategy or approach that you can use.


Hey Tyler congrats on your new baby! 

I was just wondering a couple of things about your marriage dynamic. I know Im committing a TAM sin by not reading the whole thread and risking this already was discussed.

You said you have been working and lot of hours, you do most of the housework, AND you have a new baby. Do you do a lot for the baby or does your wife mostly take care of him? Does your wife take up the slack when you work a lot more hours? I know that might be hard now depending on how things are going with the baby and sleeping, etc. But I mean in the past has she done more when you work more?

I am just curious about this type of situation when the man does most of the housework.


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## hawx20

What about doing all the housework because you want to spend time in your man cave but not feel like an ass being lazy while the wife is cleaning the house?

Yesterday I just wanted to chill all day in my cave but the house was a mess. My wife takes a slow approach to cleaning on sundays. I drank an energy drink and used the energy rush to clean the house in record time so I could enjoy guilt free alone time.....


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## Dad&Hubby

Disenchanted said:


> Okay in all honesty and seriousness, I have found that when I treat a woman the way she loves to be treated, she likes to serve and wait on me. It brings her joy. But treating a woman the way she wants to be treated is a whole lot more work then doing a couple of dishes.


I agree 100%. For me, housework is a matter of respect and love.

IF a couple wants to spend quality time together, they don't want ONE of the parties doing work while the other does nothing. That's an inefficient use of time. If both parties tackle what's needed to be done, then they get the work done quicker which means more "non-work" time together.

The respect aspect is treating your partner (woman) properly. It's disrespectful for one partner to leave work for their partner when their partner is swamped and the person's plate is empty. You're treating your partner as a laborer. (gender aside). My wife almost never does "man's work" like shoveling/snow blowing, but once last year, I threw my back out and my wife jumped up and took care of it. There was no grumbling. She was happy to do it because it's a job that needs to get done and I was unable to do it.


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## Jellybeans

ReformedHubby said:


> Surely the cause of all those sexless marriages isn't something as simple as a guy vacuuming too much.


Sexlessness has little to do with whether someone vacuums or not.


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## committed4ever

RH our dynamic is much like yours. I'm a SAHM so I do all the cooking, laundry and cleaning. I really don't have any problem taking care of these things before my husband even gets home. So I don't even ask for any help from him. He takes care of the outside stuff, the cars, and fixing stuff. I would never get up on a ladder to do anything.

Frankly my H cannot even cook anything but eggs, and I really don't like him messing around in my kitchen anyway. I dont like the way he cleans bathrooms either. When he was growing up the boys did the outside work and dumping the trash and his sisters did the cleaning and cooking. All of them had to keep their own rooms clean and pick up behind themselves in the common areas. His Mom did everybody's laundry but hanging laundry outside is pretty much not done anymore.

I cannot imagine housework doing anything for our sex life either way. Most of the times I'm pretty much up for sex as much as he is but I do go through short periods of LD. During these periods I find that if I go ahead with it I end up enjoying it anyway in the end. Frankly I had never heard of the housework/sex exchange until I came on TAM. In my culture its pretty much if you have a good man you better take care of him or someone else will.


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## WyshIknew

Mrs Wysh bough me a blue silk dressing gown that she likes me to do the dishes in.


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## ReformedHubby

committed4ever said:


> RH our dynamic is much like yours. I'm a SAHM so I do all the cooking, laundry and cleaning. I really don't have any problem taking care of these things before my husband even gets home. So I don't even ask for any help from him. He takes care of the outside stuff, the cars, and fixing stuff. I would never get up on a ladder to do anything.


If you're like us I'm sure that some of your acquaintances who don't know your husband as well as your friends and family can sometimes be a little bit judgmental about your relationship dynamic. We deal with this quite a bit. Back where my wife and I come from in the south most women would see my wife's life as idealistic. But where we live now I think a lot of people feel like she is wasting her potential.


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## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> If you're like us I'm sure that some of your acquaintances who don't know your husband as well as your friends and family can sometimes be a little bit judgmental about your relationship dynamic. We deal with this quite a bit. *Back where my wife and I come from in the south most women would see my wife's life as idealistic. But where we live now I think a lot of people feel like she is wasting her potential.*


Funny how that works!

Sometimes, because of certain stereotypes , people tend to assume certain things , based too, on culture.

So back in the days when we invited friends over for lunch , usually I would cook.

During lunch, people would begin to complement her on her cooking and we would both play tricks on them, she would say her thank yous , smile, blush and then eventually tell everyone that it was me who did the cooking.


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## Marduk

This is going to sound overly sexist, but damn does it work in my marriage.

We have blue tasks, pink tasks, and grey tasks.

Blue tasks involve heavy things, "manly" things, outdoor things, structural things. Things like the back yard, getting ready for camping, shovelling the snow, fixing things around the house. Making sure the bills are paid.

Pink tasks are things like housecleaning, cooking (except the BBQ which is a blue task), dishes, and the laundry. I don't touch that stuff.

Grey tasks are things like getting the kids bathed or to bed, taking them to their sports, stuff like that.

Our color scheme is overridable if we're having people over or something's going on... all hands on deck for anything then.

It seems to work.

If I randomly pitch in and help out with pink tasks, I get:
"ah, that's nice. But you did it wrong."
"can you just get out of the way and let me do it?"
"oh, that's great, thanks for doing that. I'm going out with the girls now that I have free time"

and, worst of all:
no sex.

One man's experience.


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## Amplexor

I, for years, subscribed to the false Pavlovian theory that doing more around the house would lead to more sex. It didn't and in few marriages does it ever work that way. In a marriage where her love language is "Acts of Service" it might have some applications as a labor of love. 

But in most, no. It simply turns into a task/reward scenario that is ineffective and at best puts you in the position of servant. "Look honey, look what a good job I did. Now how about some sex?" You might as well have stuck your **** in that vacuum cleaner you just put away. If your going to do more housework, do it because you want your house to look good, do it because she could use some help but don't do it in hopes of sex. You might as well cut your nuts off and rename yourself Spot! She will not respect you for it.

Want more sex? Tell her! Tell her it's an important part of your happiness in the marriage. Tell her it important because you desire her and you want all she has to offer in the bedroom. Tell her it's an integral part of your bonding inside the relationship. Tell her it's is core to your marital needs. Don't ask, tell her. At the same time understand her core needs in the marriage and honor them. Understand each others needs and tend to them.


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## samyeagar

It makes one wonder if "they" are women who just want more help around the house and perpetuating the myth of more housework=more sex...counting on the gullibility of some men...


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## ReformedHubby

samyeagar said:


> It makes one wonder if "they" are women who just want more help around the house and perpetuating the myth of more housework=more sex...counting on the gullibility of some men...


Could be. Although I still think the "tired" angle works too. If you're not getting sex because she says she is always too tired some men might think that taking on more might give her more time to rest.

The irony of this is most of the women that I know that are really active physically because they work out, actually seem to be less "tired". If you know what I mean.


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## Caribbean Man

Amplexor said:


> But in most, no. It simply turns into a task/reward scenario that is ineffective and at best puts you in the position of servant. "Look honey, look what a good job I did. Now how about some sex?" You might as well have stuck your **** in that vacuum cleaner you just put away. If your going to do more housework, do it because you want your house to look good, do it because she could use some help but don't do it in hopes of sex. You might as well cut your nuts off and rename yourself Spot! She will not respect you for it.


lol,

Pavlovian and dog are definitely a match made in hell. 

While reading your post, a pic of a dog wearing an apron,vaccuming the living room and begging for a doggie snack , popped into my mind.


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## ocotillo

marduk said:


> Pink tasks are things like housecleaning, cooking (except the BBQ which is a blue task)


...Which is why they call it, "Manning the barbecue."

Get yourself a restaurant quality range, an 18th century two-handed cleaver to hang on the soffit above it and a collection of cutlery that would make a medieval samurai jealous....


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## Holland

Well here, him doing housework does not get him more sex, we have plenty of that.

What it does get is more love and admiration. It also means I have more time for other things like sex, spending time with him, doing more exciting things together.

If he were to say this or that task is "woman's work" I would lose respect and admiration for him. It is such old fashioned thinking to me that some tasks are men's and some are women's, actually it would repulse me for a partner to think or act this way.

We have fairly defined gender roles when it comes to certain aspects such as appearance, he is tall, broad and all man, I am curvy and feminine but we live a life where our input to the running of our daily lives is equal and of great value to each other.


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## turnera

ReformedHubby said:


> Could be. Although I still think the "tired" angle works too. If you're not getting sex because she says she is always too tired some men might think that taking on more might give her more time to rest.
> 
> The irony of this is most of the women that I know that are really active physically because they work out, actually seem to be less "tired". If you know what I mean.


It's the same thing, really. Women who take the time out of their busy schedule to put themselves first by going to the gym or working out are getting a psychological lift by putting themselves first. Women who enjoy their husbands putting them at least equal to them by helping out with the chores get a psychological lift, too. Both women would then see themselves in a better light, and their husbands, too. Thus, more interested in a full life, including sex. JMO


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