# Old wound opened



## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

> "A month or so later, she told me she had chlamydia. She denied cheating"


LOL what? How else did she get the clap?

I don't know, it was 30 years ago, you really shouldn't have put this one in the vault. It's absurd to think she came home from a weekend away with an STD and didn't cheat on you. I'm not sure what arguing about it now will do.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

TBH, based on what I have read here, you didn't deal with it correctly back than and you triggered and it is bothering you now. You know in your gut that the rug sweeping was wrong. You are going to really have issues until you learn the truth and deal with it. Assuming this was your WW's only fling, she has had 30 years to process it. You really have never processed it. It is going to be very tough for you. You may or may not even have the tip of the iceberg. 

Good luck, this stuff sux.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

After 30 years the statute of limitations will have kicked in in her head, don't pick at this scab, it isn't worth it really, go on improving yourself, let this slide, it will only end in tears, by the way she did cheat on you, but of course you already know this, right. 

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Was she tested after the last boyfriend and before you?


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Too many personal details


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ask her if she's planning to cheat again on her upcoming trip.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

The old adage that "time heals all wounds" is horse dung.

Your trigger is quite understandable, and that should also be understandable for her. She whould respond by taking responsibility and ownership of her actions, even though they were 30 years ago. It is incumbent upon her to answer your questions, even though they may be delayed.



thatdog said:


> Certainly would be stupid of me to bring it up out of the blue, right?


No. Not stupid at all. And, if she is the loving and caring wife you say she is, she won't think it's "stupid", either. Neither will she consider you
"weak".



naiveonedave said:


> You may or may not even have the tip of the iceberg.


There is a strong possibility. We have good intuition in these things, it's hard to "surface" it, but it nevertheless is there and operating.



thatdog said:


> If anything, it would only increase the likelihood of cheating, wouldn't it?


No. Cheating does not result from the actions of the betrayed spouse, no matter what those actions are. It is true that the actions of either spouse can bring about marital problems, but they cannot bring about adultery. Adultery is the unilateral choice of the spouse who does it.



thatdog said:


> I think she slept with another person of the same name on the trip to get back at the ex for sleeping with her friend.


You have observed your wife in action for 29 years. This is high-school stuff. That's not to say that adults who should be mature don't do things of this reprehensible nature, God help us, they do.

Sorry to have to say it, but it being another "g" just doesn't carry the ring of truth to me. I would have a very hard time with that one.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes a woman or man can have an STD for years and not know until they are tested. Unless she was tested after her last partner and before you you have no idea where it came from. 

This was before marriage, 30 years ago and isn't 100% proof of cheating- I say let it go and focus on now.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Personally, I don't think I could, or you should, sit on this info ... and if that's your intention, what are you hoping to achieve from posting here?

Also, 2 questions that come to my mind ... are any of the "girls" from the first trip, going on this trip? ... and, is this trip anywhere near the first one and/or close to ex or "G"?


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

FWIW, I became a BH as a result of a "girls only trip" and there are now new boundaries in place. Basically, unless my mother or daughter are there, my W will not be going on any "girls only trips" in the future. I don't think there will be another A, but I didn't think there would be a first one either ... so, I simply refuse to put myself through the anxiety of another "girls only trip".


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Go to a strip club and have fun with some young 20's bombshell when she's on her trip. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone lies, and most people cheat (including me.. stuff I'll take to my grave and not even post/admit here). I'd bet almost everyone posting in this thread has cheated in some type of form, either with a girlfriend or married partner. 

thatdog, have you ever cheated on a partner (kissing, sex, etc)? Is that why you rug swept it early on?


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

thatdog said:


> I gave her plenty of opportunity and motive to cheat


No, sir. We all have opportunity to cheat. It is not given to us by our spouse or committed partner. It just "is". No one spends every waking and sleeping hour with our partner.

No, sir. We all possess the "motive" to cheat intrinsically. Cheating is borne of selfishness and disrespect. attitudes which we CHOOSE to adopt. Those attitudes are not "given" to us by others. We come up with them all by ourselves.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Yes, one of the girls is going/organizing the trip. She is also married. According to her hubby, they haven't had sex in 2 years. We are still friends with girl who hooked up with ex as well, but she is not invited.
> 
> The destination is TBD.
> 
> If they come up with the old destination, I will put my foot down.


In all honesty, given what you have now allowed yourself to "know", (much like what I now know about my W) I'd be pulling the plug on this trip right now ... why put yourself through the mental torture?

Also, the 2 "girls" that my W went with have been permanently removed from our lives and I would advise the same for you, for the same reason as stated above ... you just don't need this BS in your life.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> Go to a strip club and have fun with some young 20's bombshell when she's on her trip. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone lies, and most people cheat (including me.. stuff I'll take to my grave and not even post/admit here). I'd bet almost everyone posting in this thread has cheated in some type of form, either with a girlfriend or married partner.




Project much? Egad, man!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thatdog, making a fuss over something that MAY have happened 30 years ago before you were even married is a bad idea. Just don't do it. You have no proof, you continued to marry her and had 30 years after, you went through her stuff last year and found nothing recent. 

Leave it alone. Do not confront. You'll do so much damage to your marriage if you do. Yes she may lose respect for you if you did, she may think you weak. I would if anyone told me the things from many of these posts, they would no longer be my husband and I would never think of him the same.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

thatdog said:


> So you think I should bring this up, tell my wife she can't go and then ask her to remove friends of 30 years from her life?
> 
> Really?


THis is a tough one for sure, but given what you have presented here so far, and how you have presented your feelings, it may be best to bring it up sooner rather than later. This is obviously bothering you, and it is pretty clear, it is not going away. At least if you bring it up soon, you will be able to maintain control of feeling and emotions and have a better chance at constructive dialog. I fear if you let it continue to fester, it will still find ways of coming out, at least indirectly through other behaviours, in other situations.

Given the trip coming up, the people involved, and newly raw emotions, it is almost a certainty that this will find a way of exploding out if you try and bury it again.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> So you think I should bring this up, tell my wife she can't go and then ask her to remove friends of 30 years from her life?
> 
> Really?


I'm only sharing my experiences. My W's 2 girl friends were both 20+ year friends of hers that preexisted our M, and one was her self-described BEST friend. Both have been permanently removed from our lives. It's a small town, so we run into them every now and then, but we don't speak, other than a polite hello or head nod, or otherwise interact with them.

As for even bringing it up to your W ... why the hell would you not? Why are you assuming the role of "secret keeper" for your W?

If your W is as quality as you claim, then she will gladly do it for YOU and your mental health and to maintain your opinion of her, or she will get defensive and you will find out quite a bit about who your W really is.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ThatDog,

Gus wrote, *Ask her if she's planning to cheat again on her upcoming trip.*

What Gus said is not a joke, there are many many instances where women hook up with boyfriends from decades ago.

The fact that your W talked about that time period means it has remained in her mind for all this time and it remains a sexual memory for her.

Tamat


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

If I planned a girl trip, one girl trip after years and years of no trips and my man told me not to go because I *may* have cheated on my last one, 30 years ago, before we were married I would sure as heck be defensive and not all loving and understanding. 

He looked last year, found nothing in the last few years to give him any hint there is an active or recent affair. 

He has no way of knowing when she got the std. It is just as likely she had it from her last boyfriend before she was with him.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Don't say anything until you catch her red handed. 

Once a cheater...always a cheater.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

edited.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I wonder what she would say if you said the following: I know that you were unfaithful to me when we were first married. You gave me Chlamidya. Would you care to elaborate?


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I was in your shoes thirty-one years ago.

I had no proof...just words.

And at that time...I did not care. Being consumed with concurrent anger over 'other' issues.

And some trigger, many, many years later brought me to TAM.

Yes, I could request a polygraph. This would cause irrevocable damage.

The portrait is finished. All players are still present. Older, more mature, very loyal....not always pleasant.

When questioned about the words? 

Her words, rephrased by me....Words can cause pain, words can hurt. They were untrue. I fired them at your heart to cause pain.....they bounced off. And were forgotten, until 25 years later.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Taxman said:


> I wonder what she would say if you said the following: I know that you were unfaithful to me when we were first married. You gave me Chlamidya. I would like to return the favor, if possible, and to that end, I shall find myself someone to sleep with and do so. You have had one up on me for a while, my turn now.


These would be the last words my husband ever spoke to be as I would walk out and go right to get the divorce papers. How disrespectful and disgusting. 

This is ridiculous. There is no proof she cheated. People are being way too insane about this.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

thatdog said:


> This was before marriage. However, I will admit to having the feelings of wanting to "one up" her.
> 
> Of course, the betrayal would be much greater on my end after 25 years of marriage, so it's probably not a fair trade.


If this was a one time PRE-MARITAL indiscretion (three decades ago, btw), and your wife has indeed been a good wife since exchanging vows, and as you have stated, it's been a good marriage ....
.... I can hardly think of anything more foolish and damaging. 

You don't want to appear weak? You would be doing this completely as a result of what she did, meaning you are totally reactionary and your actions are needlessly driven by outside forces, and long since expired ones at that. That's both weak AND immature. 

By all means, do it ... if you are looking to destroy a marriage that has lasted longer than most.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ThatDog,

So what is her explanation for the STD? Did she ever give one?

Tamat


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

thatdog said:


> Don't misunderstand.
> 
> The thought has crossed my mind, but I agree it would be idiotic and a far greater betrayal on my end.
> 
> I'm not going to do something so stupid.


And it is, of course, a perfectly natural and understandable thought. That's the glory of being a human being rather than an animal as we can consciously choose whether or not to act on the things that pop in our heads.

Your self awareness is a great tool--keep using it wisely.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> These would be the last words my husband ever spoke to be as I would walk out and go right to get the divorce papers. How disrespectful and disgusting.
> 
> This is ridiculous. There is no proof she cheated. *People are being way too insane about this.*


That's often times the very nature of feelings and emotions.

Yes, it has been a very long time, and this has largely sat dormant. While ideally, this would have been hashed out 30 years ago when it happened, that is not reality. The next best thing would be for it to be mentally processed and buried again without a word being spoken, however that may not be possible. What makes this particularly difficult is that the wife has had 30 years to process it, make her own peace with her actions and move on, though she does still think of it from time to time as evidenced by her bringing it up recently, albeit indirectly. Since he buried it and rugswept it, for him, he is just now processing it as if it only just happened.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Can you elaborate on what happened and when? How did you find out?


It was a drunken ONS on a girls only vacation at a tropical location with a complete stranger, followed by a 10 day texting, email and phone EA. After her return to the states, she was acting very "different", and I found myself on an infidelity forum, much like this one wondering what was my "gut" trying to tell me and after following the snooping advice of some of the vets, she was busted. She reluctantly admitted to most when confronted. The rest trickle truthed out over the next month. I confronted the OM by phone the next day (he lived 500+ miles away) and he went immediate NC.

I talked to both "girls" from the trip to confirm my W's story and then told them they were now dead to us. My W wanted to reach out to her "Bestie" a couple of years later and I agreed stupidly. They met for a talk, and it triggered me pretty hard ... after my W saw how it affected me, she went NC herself and hasn't spoken with her in many years now.

Obviously there was more, but that's the "Reader's Digest" version from a little over 10 years ago.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> That's often times the very nature of feelings and emotions.
> 
> Yes, it has been a very long time, and this has largely sat dormant. While ideally, this would have been hashed out 30 years ago when it happened, that is not reality. The next best thing would be for it to be mentally processed and buried again without a word being spoken, however that may not be possible. What makes this particularly difficult is that the wife has had 30 years to process it, make her own peace with her actions and move on, though she does still think of it from time to time as evidenced by her bringing it up recently, albeit indirectly. Since he buried it and rugswept it, for him, he is just now processing it as if it only just happened.


There is no proof she had anything to process. That is the problem. She tested positive for an std that has been known to not have any symptoms for many and you can have it for years without knowing unless tested. 
Other than that, nothing. 

She mentioned her old boyfriend a year ago, not an affair she still thinks of.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

thatdog said:


> Man, it was a long time ago.
> 
> But I believe that first she accused me of cheating, lots of back and forth, then she said tried the "toilet seat" excuse.
> 
> ...


The accusation of you cheating is a much bigger red flag.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thatdog said:


> Man, it was a long time ago.
> 
> But I believe that first she accused me of cheating, lots of back and forth, then she said tried the "toilet seat" excuse.
> 
> ...


There was even less information about stds then. Some people did think you could get them from toilet seats. But it could absolutely be there for years without knowing. You could have been the one who had it first as well. Did you have sex before her? 

If she accused you of cheating when she got it I would consider that a sign that she didn't.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> The accusation of you cheating is a much bigger red flag.


How? She gets an std and knows she didn't cheat so she's gonna think he did.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> How? She gets an std and knows she didn't cheat so she's gonna think he did.


Absolute textbook cheaters script...flipping it to redirect


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think what you need to move on is for her to confess, and yes it is still front and center in her mind.

Tamat


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

thatdog said:


> Exactly. I can't be 100 percent sure unless I ask what "g" she was talking about. Up until this, I figured she got it from the X.
> 
> So, it's either a person she never mentioned sleeping with named "g", or a prior x of the same name, who I knew about.


Really at this point, if you can manage to process it with an even keel, make sure you don't let your thoughts bleed into other aspects of your life, you'd be way better off. I think it is quite likely that some less than above board things happened on the girls only trip that included at least one man that wasn't you, funny how often girls only trip end up not being girls only, but I digress. Yeah, your gut is probably right, but honestly, I think that ship sailed a long time ago, and it is in your best interest to find a way to suck it up and bury it.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Absolute textbook cheaters script...flipping it to redirect


So him thinking she was the one who cheated must be cheater script as well. 🙄


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thatdog said:


> Yeah, I had sex before her, but always protected.
> 
> I agree that flipping the script is textbook.
> 
> ...


I have no idea if she did or didn't. I think you don't have any proof that she did and after 30 years a maybe needs to be let go of. There is a very real chance she or you had it before you were together. Even protected does not guarantee being std free. 

No one on here can tell you she 100% cheated.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So him thinking she was the one who cheated must be cheater script as well. 🙄


Nope...the cheaters script is so completely predictable. A proactive out of the blue accusation by a cheater is very rare. Flipping the accusation and being defensive by going on the attack happens in most cases.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Nope...the cheaters script is so completely predictable. A proactive out of the blue accusation by a cheater is very rare. Flipping the accusation and being defensive by going on the attack happens in most cases.


Geez. She got an std. It's a normal response for both of them to think the other cheated. 

Seriously, a woman can't win. There's another thread where because she didn't accuse him of giving it to her that she must be cheating.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Okay, I'll add back in the context. You put something away 30 years ago. She brought up something and it triggered a thought. Then you put it together and think she cheated while you were committed. Don't go all snoop and PI related sit down and talk with her. If you've been together for thirty years and can't talk about something SHE TRIGGERED then your marriage is weak.

As you can see, we have gender wars on TAM and they have become much worse.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

thatdog said:


> For the record, I have never cheated on her or any LTR.


I'm sure you haven't but keep in mind that she has just as much "proof" that you did as you have that she did. 

That is the problem. Unless you guys were tested after your last and before you were together you have no idea where it came from. This is also why I test between all partners to avoid this stuff. But I know you can't go back and change things. 

Blowing things up on a maybe is just not a good idea. If she suddenly decided to blow up at you for "giving her an STD so you must have cheated 30 years ago" you'd be upset, you can't prove you didn't. There's nothing you can do at this point.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Okay, I'll add back in the context. You put something away 30 years ago. She brought up something and it triggered a thought. Then you put it together and think she cheated while you were committed. Don't go all snoop and PI related sit down and talk with her. If you've been together for thirty years and can't talk about something SHE TRIGGERED then your marriage is weak.
> 
> As you can see, we have gender wars on TAM and they have become much worse.


This is solid advice. It may not be necessary to take the steps I did, but you won't know until you have an honest discussion with your W. She may be able to calm your anxiety or make it worse, but like I said in my first post to you, I don't think I could, or that you should, just white knuckle through this on your own. Once she realizes her actions and words are the cause of your trigger, she should be willing, as your life partner of 30 years, to help you deal with it.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

thatdog said:


> I think my issue is that the trigger was a year ago. I didn't jump on it then because it didn't sink in and the moment passed.
> 
> So, bringing it up now would be out of the blue for her, right?
> 
> ...


I think a lot would depend on how you approached the subject. If you go in guns blazing, then, yeah, it'll probably be a bad thing. And there are some people that are just so naturally defensive, and perceive most things as an attack and will strike back without even stopping to consider the issue before them. Does your wife tend toward being hyper defensive?

I would think that in a good marriage, where both of you have the best interests of the marriage at heart, if you brought this up in a non accusatory way, kept it about your feelings, your triggers, a loving partner would presumably be willing to work through it, and help you both come to a peaceful understanding.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

#1 Condoms do not work anywhere near 100% of the time. People the use condoms for birth-control regularly get pregnant. How did you use condoms during oral? 

# 2 I triggered after about thirty years later too. I had not seen her for those thirty years. That ship had sailed. Yours has too. Adultery is the gift that keeps on giving. 

You did nothing the and now its too late. If you destroy your family over this now you're crazy. If you can't get over it get counseling. Its simply too late to collect on a bill this long overdue and it may have never been true anyway.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

By thw way, almost all women lie about how many men they have been with, by understating the count. The same goes for men too but their lie is exageration. There is about a 90% chance she had sex with more men than you inow and its none of your business.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't agree personally with burying things, but it has been 30+ years? Your mistake was not processing it property then. Now you see the result. 

I'd say, given so much time has passed, concentrate on what YOU need to do to process it. If that means therapy, a help group, whatever you need to do to work through it. But part of me just can't see the good in opening the can of worms to her. You know she cheated. The ship for confronting her has well sailed. 

I'm not sure what else to suggest other than you work in your own way on processing it and overcoming it. You may never... Just be open to the possibility. You can certainly make a best effort.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

If you REALLY want to talk to her about it, you should at least wait until the subject of the trip comes up again. It would seem far more natural than it coming out of left field. 

Tell her the previous convo about it a year ago triggered you. Then tell her you expect her to behave on the trip this time.

If she truly is remorseful, she'll not chastise you , but help assuage your fears until you feel safe about her going on this trip. 

If you've just got to get it out and can't wait for the opportunity, I suggest a therapist to help you deal with this.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> If you REALLY want to talk to her about it, you should at least wait until the subject of the trip comes up again. It would seem far more natural than it coming out of left field.
> 
> Tell her the previous convo about it a year ago triggered you. Then tell her you expect her to behave on the trip this time.
> 
> ...



And no boys allowed on a girls only trip this time.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No, unless there are other problems, you don't need a therapist. 30 years ago something happened, a year ago the vault was opened and then the trip pulled the issue out of the safe. So, address it with no expectations or anger and then destroy it this time, don't put it back in the vault.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Have these 25-29 years been great? Having passionate sex 2-3x a week? Little arguments?

Are you now having regrets with who you have spent your prime years with and looking for an out while there is still a little time left?

If the marriage has been solid and you both haven't neglected each other, I would think 30 years would be enough to let this one go and enjoy the next 20-30 years together.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

thatdog said:


> That by letting this slide 30 years ago, she figured she could cheat without consequence and therefore acted on it more than this one time.





GuyInColorado said:


> Have these 25-29 years been great? Having passionate sex 2-3x a week? Little arguments?
> 
> Are you now having regrets with who you have spent your prime years with and looking for an out while there is still a little time left?
> 
> If the marriage has been solid and you both haven't neglected each other, I would think 30 years would be enough to let this one go and enjoy the next 20-30 years together.



I agree with GuyInColorado. You have a marriage that most people would envy. The smart thing is to let it go. But if you can’t there is only one way I can think of that will answer if she has cheated at any time during the last 30 years. 

Put methods in place to monitor her communications (VAR, key loggers, etc.). Once they’re in place do a soft confront. I call that “kicking the ant nest.” Then see what she tells her friends.

LOOK HERE: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

thatdog said:


> What's an example of a soft confront?
> 
> Asking for a friend....


The key is don’t get mad or aggressive and accept her answer whatever it is. Just do what many have told you to do. Have an honest conversation with her about your concerns. Again, do not say that you’re 99% sure she cheated and get mad when she says she didn’t. Don't debate and get angry. You’re hurt and sad. Show that. That may prompt her to ask friends for advice.

I know of someone that had proof of his wife’s affair but he wanted to see if she would come clean. He had a VAR in place and then confronted her with things she could explain way. He didn’t tell her about the proof he had. She explained everything away and said there was no affair.

He didn’t call her out and listened to a VAR in her car. She had Bluetooth so he could hear both sides of the conversation. He heard his wife talk about the affair with a girlfriend and the OM. The girlfriend knew about the affair and she asked her what she should do now that her husband was suspicious. She told the OM that it was over, that her husband was suspicious and that her marriage was too important.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

thatdog said:


> Of course, I wouldn't mention the snooping!
> 
> My inclination is to keep it in the vault, pending new information or if she broaches the subject in some way.
> 
> ...


It's only jealous, weak, or insecure if do it jealous_ly_, weak_ly_, or insecure_ly_.

Just do it matter-of-factly. Like it's not a big deal. Hey, it's been 30 years, right?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Graywolf2 said:


> The key is don’t get mad or aggressive and accept her answer whatever it is. Just do what many have told you to do. Have an honest conversation with her about your concerns. Again, do not say that you’re 99% sure she cheated and get mad when she says she didn’t. Don't debate and get angry. You’re hurt and sad. Show that. That may prompt her to ask friends for advice.
> 
> I know of someone that had proof of his wife’s affair but he wanted to see if she would come clean. He had a VAR in place and then confronted her with things she could explain way. He didn’t tell her about the proof he had. She explained everything away and said there was no affair.
> 
> He didn’t call her out and listened to a VAR in her car. She had Bluetooth so he could hear both sides of the conversation. He heard his wife talk about the affair with a girlfriend and the OM. The girlfriend knew about the affair and she asked her what she should do now that her husband was suspicious. She told the OM that it was over, that her husband was suspicious and that her marriage was too important.


Yikes. Hopefully he's well on his way to being rid of her.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

thatdog,

One thing you can do is to contact the OM, he may be willing to tell his side of the story to save his skin.

I have a similar timeline, and I arranged for my W and OM1 to "accidentally" meet it was very telling.

There is one deep question you should ask yourself and that is were you your Ws second choice. Did she actually love the OM more than she did you but she stayed with you for practical reasons. I can say that in my case the answer is yes, and it had an effect on our entire marriage.

Tamat


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GuyInColorado said:


> Go to a strip club and have fun with some young 20's bombshell when she's on her trip. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone lies, and most people cheat (including me.. stuff I'll take to my grave and not even post/admit here). I'd bet almost everyone posting in this thread has cheated in some type of form, either with a girlfriend or married partner.
> 
> thatdog, have you ever cheated on a partner (kissing, sex, etc)? Is that why you rug swept it early on?


LOL. ^This guy^.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm slightly confused about "G"

Do you know the names of everyone she slept with before you? That'd be kind of weird but there was a "G" in that list? 

But you don't know if it's the same "G" she said gave her the std?


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* @thatdog ~ I'd fastly say that you've been grossly deceived and habitually played as a "Plan B" for better than 30 years!

Time for a "Come to Jesus Meeting" with your wife! And if, for some reason, she doesn't really want to oblige you, then quickly execute "the 180" and then go see yourself a good seasoned family attorney to advise you of all of your legal rights!*


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Yeah. *I don't see much upside to confronting her on this.* Ship has sailed. It helps to get this out.


There is no upside.

That sleek young hull sank One and a Half Scores ago. 

The other man's name was painted on the large breasts of the bow-mounted Figurehead. First name engraved on one Tit....Sur Name on the other.
That youthful, yearning, learning hull has permanently settled in, sunk in the Delta... a soft down and curly layer.... into the oozy, opaque muck. Sunk out of sight.
Only the long legged Lady Captain knows his name. No man can now read it.

And she only murmurs his name when the Winds of Yesterday catch her unawares, blowing through her now graying hair.
Stirring up the muck in her yet fertile mind. And stirring up her loins...just a warm blush, then it goes back into the silk, the dark silt.

Ye, the Outsider never know these stirrings, save for the rare smile that appears briefly. Flashes and goes.
Appears...out of nowhere that no one {out-side-her} can see.
..............................................................................................................................................................

You are bringing this Infidelity up:

Because you now have time to process this long burning question.
Because you are now at the "very beginning" of retirement thoughts. You are planning. You are thinking of the End Time. I suspect you are in your Mid-Fifties.

The End Time when unsettled worries, scores, questions need answers before one forgets these same long forgotten, 'Linger On-Er's', Hanger On-Er's that poke through a now questioning brain. Those that rise out of the dark silty GRAY muck, that is in your un-conscience database .

*You want to settle the score....not in reality....but in mind...Your Mind*.* It insists on putting the puzzle pieces together. *
*Why? Resentment. Feeling cheated. Feeling incomplete.*

*Losing a bit of love for this women of thirty years. The shine has come off the Old Bride.
*
Keep in mind....this. Long buried thoughts.... when they resurface demand recognition and credence. And demand that the Scores be settled. If that 30 year old truth were told today....the marriage would likely end. The Power of Truth has no big breasted Statute of Limitations. It has just as much power today as it did when it was shoved in the large drawer, three layers deep in your silty memory, river bank. 

Be careful what you ask for.

I believe you want a REALLY good excuse to call a halt to this marriage. But, your practical nature holds these thoughts in Abeyance....as usual. 

The Practical Man remains Topside. 
The Revengeful man.....lays on the Bottom, next to that sleek youthful hull in the Delta and weeps.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

thatdog said:


> So, here's the deal. I met wife sophomore year of college. She was freshman.
> We were friends with benefits for a 1.5 years. Here is what I know:


I can easily understand why she might not have thought it was a "committed" relationship 2 years in. Sounds to me like you could have been in it just for the puzzy. My observation is that most guys think the relationship is "committed" long before receiving a signal from the girl its a committed relationship. Don't tell me she said it was committed. Most chicks are not as stupid as guys. They don't believe the guy is committed right off the bat, regardless of what the he sez, and they keep their options open until they receive clear indications that the guy is committed. (some even their entire life)
Just to add, as the reason for editing, take it from an old dawg that's been around and known many women. Unless you have have clear and convincing evidence she cheated during your marriage, do yourself a favor a forget about this long past infraction. A large percentage of guys you pass every day has a spouse cheating and/or looking for their replacement, or betraying them in other ways. Besides, in your college and barely out of your teen, days, both of you knew your "committed" relationship could end any day of the current semester. At the time, I doubt you figured you'd end up marrying the chick.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

This is from a man who is/has been in your place. I have had a fantastic marriage for more years that yours. First of all, you will never know the answer to your question unless you ask her. I never did ask. Didn't want to know. At that time knowing would have cost a "so called" friend of mine dire bodily harm. I had just returned from a combat area and wasn't in a forgiving mood. (career military, Special Forces) I suspected and thought about it often. But, asking would only have wrecked what has been a great marriage with the love of my life. I know for a fact that there has been no one but me for the last 36 years. Not going to mess that up. I will ask you the question I ask myself. At this place in time, what would asking really accomplish? I do wish you well.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Lets be clear about this:

You are sure (and so should you be with the pathetic toilet seat statement) that she cheated! So ignore those that are saying that there is no proof that she cheated - those statements are just deflecting the real reason why you are feeling the way you do.

She came back and you didn't do anything about this - believe me I understand you were young and in love (I have been exactly there) but let me throw into that mix, you didn't really know what to do about it.

Now for the truth of the matter: she lied to you then. She continued with this lie for 30 years thinking she had got away with it. Well she hasn't - for her and her selfish ways, she has had a good life and enjoyed it. But she has robbed you of your peace of mind for 30years by not coming clean! I cannot accept that she is a good person. If you think back you will probably remember other times when she has lied to you without a second thought.

As for now, you will not be in peace until you get this off your chest - and if she wants to leave the marriage as a result then so be it. Let her go. She needs to understand what you have been dealing with as a result of her cheating and lying ways.

Gus' recommendation to ensure that she doesn't pull this stunt again is a good one. I would tell it to her matter-of-factly! "I hope you don't come back with Chlamidya again from a toilet seat!" (throw in a generous dose of sarcasm). If she picks up on this, then this is your opportunity to tell her how her lying has made you feel for the last 30 years and if there is an ounce of decency in her, she would come clean and confirm the truth that you already know - for your peace of mind.

Else this will eat at you and destroy your core. You don't owe her anything - she owes you honesty and an apology at the very least!


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

thatdog said:


> because no good could come of bringing up ancient history.


Seems to be a running theme isn't it. No good can come out of it so you bury that elephant which clearly has been stalking your sub-conscious this entire time. You did give a f*ck back then but choose not to do anything, so this hangs around in the background affecting your marriage (I'm sure there've been a couple of times she hasn't checked in, had friendships with men or stayed out later where the thought has popped into your head)

Again the running theme is no good can come of it..yes for her because it's been you that is rug sweeping and continuing to do so. Maybe you're triggering maybe because it's symptomatic of your approach as a whole when things are good not to rock the boat?

Sure don't rock the boat, she's the only one who's been ok with this while you've been sitting there seasick holding in the vomit.


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## Aletta (Aug 7, 2017)

I pretty much agree with the previous post of Vlad Dracul.

Perhaps you should just be honest with her and tell her that what happened 30 yrs ago bothers you today because of the holidays plans she is making. Ask her to tell you the truth about what happened back then. I suspect that wouldn't be a comfortable conversation but I think it's worth having so you stop obsessing about it, especially since she probably has no clue about it. Since you were both young and dumb and played silly games (friends with benefits and all that), I don't think you should make a huge deal out of what happened back then. Your married life counts, not dumb college shenanigans. Think of the 29 years of marriage and who she has been as your wife.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

thatdog said:


> Feel free to elaborate.


*Do I really need to? Tell you what! Only after you can provide a more complete elaboration to your own situation!

Regardless, she has more than proven herself to be nothing more than a self-serving cheater!*


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> Lets be clear about this:
> 
> You are sure (and so should you be with the pathetic toilet seat statement) that she cheated! So ignore those that are saying that there is no proof that she cheated - those statements are just deflecting the real reason why you are feeling the way you do.
> 
> ...


THIS!

This is the equivalent of screaming:

*"I know you are in there! Come out with your hands up! Come out with your legs open and your head bowed!"
*


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I apologize for continuing to return to this post.

It hits close to home, as mentioned.

When was the last time you smelled a Skunk?

Maybe months, maybe years ago?

Yet, you can still "smell" it, as if it were still standing near, just glaring at you. It's beautiful tail raised, it's hind legs ready to lift.

I finally concur. A soft confront is in order. Tell her that this incident has bothered you for the duration of your' marriage [as other good folks have suggested].
...........................................................................................................................................................

My circumstances were different. I was being beaten down [a Martian cannot be beaten down]. When angry, she loves to bring up the past, embellishing the facts, twisting them into absurdity. If I remember right it was about being 'committed' to my family. 

A few minutes into this [one of many 'countless' tirades]. I simply said, "At least I did not cheat, I did not F somebody else!"
She stood there stunned. She said, "What the bleep are you talking about?"

I reminded her about her statement admitting this 'infidelity'. Her answer? "I don't remember. I probably was angry and said it to piss you off."

I told her that it didn't work then. But if does now. 

She was quiet for days. And THAT was out of the ordinary.

I again did the 180. I had been doing that for years, before somebody put the tactic to paper.

To be fair, she IS capable of saying outrageous things to slice and dice other people. She is a fragile person physically, but with the heart of a Tiger.
Either way, the statement sliced to the bone. At the time of her 'admission', nothing bothered me. I had bigger fish to fry and was impermeable to stress. I lived for stress.

Then again, she might be capable of cheating....not for sex, not for the thrill...but for revenge!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I am writing this against the strong admonitions of Ulysses.

You see, I told this to another TAMMER.

In this World, if you tell one Good Soul, you must tell all.

Lest it come back to you...all twisted and distorted.

As does a shout for HELP!..... in a long, long Canyon; in some nightmare.
...............................................................................................................

I be flawed...I be Martian. That is my excuse. I stick by this Truth.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Thatdog, are you absolutely certain you did not give her Chlamydia or that she didn't get it when ya'll were just F/B and seeing other people? The symptoms of this infection my not be present at all and could show up, if at all, months after exposure. Were you ever treated?


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When an Impaler, a Vampire latches on, get out the Holy Water, the Cross, the hammer and the Wooden Stake.

The faint Draco star @VladDracul seems invested in this Post. Is it because it is Wood, shaped like a sharp, wooden Phallus? Does it strike, pound fear in his 'yet' beating heart?
Whump, whump...whump...the stake that he fears is in the hands of his lost [to him] She Phantom. The one that yet struts his Immortal Opera stage.

Is this nether world entity....some beauty in his youth. Stolen from him by one with a sharper wit, sharper teeth. Longer incisors, placed deep {inside her} fearless mind.

I can hear his Ancient Heart beating. My ears are that powerful.

He should let go of this one. 

The Red Queen has better ears than me. Her Harpies love to chew on dried jerky and old bones. These flying big breasted monkey-bats arrive in the daylight...hunker down at night.

Even those bones taken from some Crypt. Some crypt in Transylvania.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Is "G" a common name? It's more likely to be the "G" you already know about than a second 'G" that you don't. 

Let's say my husband knows I slept with Joe and John right before we committed. Years later I mention that "Joe" gave me an STD. It is a lot more likely I am talking about the Joe he knows than a second Joe. 

It being a second, unknown Joe that I slept with after we were committed is more far fetched. 

But if you want to just go on the belief that she cheated you can. The problem is bringing it up to her in any way. You have no proof and she has reasonable doubt on her side.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Dude, what are you smoking and can I have some?


What I am inhaling comes from a source arcane and unbeknownst.

And, sorry, it has limited effect on the general populace.

You need to have the nerve receptors to sense these 'feelings'. Genetic, epi-genetic...Epic Genetic !!

And the gall and some 'other worldly' impetus to expound on them. Some good comes from 'maligned', mal-assigned insanity.

Read between the lines. Some good lies THERE.

Just Sayin'


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Whump, whump...whump...the stake that he fears is in the hands of his lost [to him] She Phantom.


*Damn right. I came home long before sunrise and found her with a surprised, oh hell, look on her face:*










*But that was nothing compared to the look on her boyfriends face when I found him hiding in the bushes outside with his pants in his hand.*


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

thatdog,

One of the interesting aspects of this thread is that, not having met him, thatdog seems to be a confident and accomplished person. But then despite all that 30 years later is crushed by the realization of what happened.

I think part of this stems from the fact that cheating is worse than death for some, in those intervening years I would guess thatdog lost loved ones and he has gotten past it, but not the cheating. Perhaps it's because we tend to remember the good in our loved ones who passed, but there is rarely any good memories from an affair.

I can say that for myself it wasn't until 2008 that it really hit me what my W did by having an affair with OM1, before 2008 it was as another poster said in my subconscious leading to nightmares and an uneasiness when my W would leave me alone at home. 

You wrote earlier that it was somewhat passive aggressive of me to arrange for my W and OM to meet. To me it made sense because my W is a take it to the grave kind of person who would trickle truth for a long long time and only something dramatic would pull anything out of her. For example she told me a story when I was first dating her about someone who kissed her, then 25 years later or something like that admitted he also fondled her breasts and that was a story I did not care in the least about. 

Tamat


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

thatdog said:


> Wife and I have been married 25 years, together 29 years.
> 
> About 2 years into our committed relationship, she went on a girls trip out of town, to a town her X lived in. A month or so later, she told me she had chlamydia. She denied cheating. I accepted it, moved on, we got married and I put it in the vault.
> 
> ...





thatdog said:


> I was young and stupid. And it wasn't the clap. Chlamydia is asymptomatic and can be around along time.
> 
> However, I KNOW she cheated. I don't know how the hell I repressed it all this time, but I did.
> 
> ...





thatdog said:


> Man, it was a long time ago.
> 
> But I believe that first she accused me of cheating, lots of back and forth, then she said tried the "toilet seat" excuse.
> 
> ...






thatdog said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice.
> 
> My wife is a good wife. Shes is a good mother. She is beautiful. She is smart. She is funny. We have great sexual and personal chemistry. She brings value to my life.
> 
> ...





thatdog said:


> I don't remember if I was treated or not. But I am sure I didn't give it to her, as she admitted last summer, when she slipped, that "g" gave it to her. So, the question still goes back to, "which g? The "g" I know about or a different "g".
> 
> All I know is that the "g" in question was friends with X. I don't know if the "g" I know about was friends with X or not, but he could have been.
> 
> ...





thatdog said:


> It's a fairly common name, but not as common as "Joe" or "John". I can't think of a nonchalant way to bring it up.
> 
> You are right there is reasonable doubt, I guess, but the "g" I know about would have been at least 2 years prior to the discovery of chlamydia. Not impossible, I guess. This is why I let it go.
> 
> I really think I will do better to work on myself and my insecurities.


Married 25 years, together 29 years: definitely in a committed relationship in 2 yrs leading up to marriage.

2 yrs into relationship (committed phase), she goes on trip with girls and sleeps with G and gets chlamydia (all the other "possible" explanations including the toilet seat are bull$h!t and you know it). You don't know what to do so you rug sweep it. SHE HOWEVER LIES AND MAINTAINS THIS LIE THROUGHOUT YOUR MARRIAGE (GUILTLESSLY I WOULD ASSUME). She is a liar and a cheat no matter how "wonderful" a wife she has been throughout this time. Also I would add that since she knew how to cheat and lie and get away with it, there is nothing to say that she didn't do it again completely without your knowledge. Presumably from the chlamydia episode she learnt how to use condoms. If not for the chlamydia you would not have known about the first time.

You seem to think that you gave her "motive to cheat" during your marriage. You really need to get these thoughts and phrases out of your head!

You are going on the assumption that she did cheat (good call) but then justifying it by saying that you didn't put a ring on it!?!?!? Really!?!?!? Also saying that it could have been her previous bf when your gut tells you that is extremely unlikely.

You know why you need to know the truth - you have explained it more eloquently than anyone else on this thread. You know she lied and cheated and what's worse, contracted an STD and slept with you after that. She was not a nice person at the time. And being a "dizzy 20 year old" doesn't really explain or justify this behaviour.

You need to get the truth out of her but the chances are that you many never get this. And do you know why ? BECAUSE SHE IS A DISHONEST PERSON!!!! Now that is what you have to deal with. Not the "wonderful wife" view you have of her but the "lying cheating person" that has plagued your inner core for all this time! 

Sure you need to decide what to do about it but it strongly is tending to rugsweeping again. Only for it to raise its head again and again in future. Confront and deal with this now - for your sake!


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> I think my best course is to bide my time, keep my eyes and ears open and soft confront when she says or does something that warrants this conversation.


Then after 8 pages of back and forth, you now find yourself exactly where you started.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

*Then after 8 pages of back and forth, you now find yourself exactly where you started. *

I don't think that's entirely fair, he got to talk with people who feel what he feels, perhaps for the first time ever and it can take months to mentally process what he has read here. It's good to know that he is not alone or crazy. 

I also hope he picked up on some of the spying tricks. 

I'm not one to immediately call for divorce but long term some sort of confession is needed. Truth being the ultimate form of just compensation, better than an apology with vague details. 

Tamat


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

thatdog said:


> I presume you are joking.
> 
> That seems to me it would make me look weak and insecure. If anything, it would only increase the likelihood of cheating, wouldn't it?
> 
> I think I will pass on that advice.


You say that you know she cheated. 

Who to say that she uses these weekend getaways to do it. 

If you can't even talk honestly with your wife about what is going on, why bother with being married to her?

I like the last line. I will answer it for you, only if she was going to anyway.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> These would be the last words my husband ever spoke to be as I would walk out and go right to get the divorce papers. How disrespectful and disgusting.
> 
> This is ridiculous. There is no proof she cheated. People are being way too insane about this.


OP says he knows she cheated during that trip. Sometimes you know things with out the proof of it. You are right about the statement.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Don't misunderstand.
> 
> The thought has crossed my mind, but I agree it would be idiotic and a far greater betrayal on my end.
> 
> I'm not going to do something so stupid.


How can having an honest conversation with ones wife make a husband look weak unless he already does?

Your wife is the one that brought up the old bF she got the clap from. You didn't drag it out of her or even ask for the info. You were to weak to pursue it at the start of your relationship. Then when she mentioned it again a year ago you stayed silent again. 

If you can't seat down with your wife and have a honest talk about this, get over it. 

Also, doesn't matter where the destination is. She can meet up with anyone she wants to. All she has to do is just post the details and who ever she is seeing ng just meets her there.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> How? She gets an std and knows she didn't cheat so she's gonna think he did.


A cheater will accuse their SO of cheating out of their own guilt. I have read many threads where this was the case. It's a knee jerk reaction because they know what they are capable of.

Also remember she said she got it from a toilet seat back then. Now she says she got it from an ex.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Everyone.
> 
> I am not deluded.
> 
> ...


Have a honest conversation with your wife. If she bails on you because of it, she would be a pretty ****ty wife anyway.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So him thinking she was the one who cheated must be cheater script as well. 🙄


OP never said he got the clap.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Geez. She got an std. It's a normal response for both of them to think the other cheated.
> 
> Seriously, a woman can't win. There's another thread where because she didn't accuse him of giving it to her that she must be cheating.


I believe it's the fact that she was caught at home behind a lock door with a known cheater that has people leaning that direction.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

thatdog said:


> I think my issue is that the trigger was a year ago. I didn't jump on it then because it didn't sink in and the moment passed.
> 
> So, bringing it up now would be out of the blue for her, right?
> 
> ...


This is the problem with most marriages. Why can't you just talk about this with out it causing a problem? Is the marriage so week that you can't talk about things unpleasant. If this is the case you haven't a real marriage, just something that looks like one. 

If a cheater can cheat with no guilt or remorse, you will never know they are cheating unless they leave a trail. If your wife only cheats on these girl trips, you will never know unless she confesses it to you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> By thw way, almost all women lie about how many men they have been with, by understating the count. The same goes for men too but their lie is exageration. There is about a 90% chance she had sex with more men than you inow and its none of your business.


So what are you really saying about women?
That they are all lying *****s.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

If there's anything I have learned from my personal experience and this board, it's that cheaters are excellent at making us believe we know them when in fact we absolutely do not. Most times, they don't even know themselves or own knowing themselves.

Eta... We have some very rare former cheaters who are the exception!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

ABHale said:


> I believe it's the fact that she was caught at home behind a lock door with a known cheater that has people leaning that direction.


And in both cases we're talking about something from DECADES ago where there is 0 proof and a ton of reasonably doubt. 

People can debate back and forth if they really cheated or not for weeks but it doesn't matter because none of us know. 

No one, including the OP, who says she for sure cheated actually knows for sure and there is plenty on the side of not cheating as well. 

Where does it get anyone? No matter what people think about if she cheated or not doesn't change where they are now. The game plan should be on how to let it go and move past it without blowing up his good marriage because something that *may* have happened 30 years ago.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And in both cases we're talking about something from DECADES ago where there is 0 proof and a ton of reasonably doubt.
> 
> People can debate back and forth if they really cheated or not for weeks but it doesn't matter because none of us know.
> 
> ...


Just a different definition of reasonable doubt. 

There is no excuse to be in a locked room at home with someone of the opposite sex as a husband or wife.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

thatdog this will eat you up it you don't talk with your wife about this. It's will act just like a cancer if you don't take care of it now. 

Talk with you wife, explain that her mentioning the guy she got the std from is different from her story years ago. Just ask her for the truth. Explain that you believed back then that she cheated and you forgave and moved on. Just ask for the truth. Then continue the conversation if there is anything else you need to know about. Don't accuse ask for the truth.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

ABHale said:


> Just a different definition of reasonable doubt.
> 
> There is no excuse to be in a locked room at home with someone of the opposite sex as a husband or wife.


She didn't know it was locked. He got in within a minute and they weren't scrambling to get dressed, later when the same man made a pass at her she called her husband and told him. 

Yes there is plenty of reasonable doubt that she didn't sleep with him. Could she have? Sure. But there is doubt enough that you can not say for certain. 

This is the problem when people just jump on the "she cheated" train with very little to go off of. 

This OP needs his wife to have slept with a second "G" that he doesn't know about vs the "G" he does know she was with before she was with him. 

They were both sexually active before committing. 

Reasonable doubt and decades have passed. 

It is not enough to blow up a marriage and obsessing over the did she/didn't she isn't healthy for either of them. They need to move forward and find a way to let it go.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> This is the problem when people just jump on the "she cheated" train with very little to go off of.


 And 99% of the time on these boards they are right, no matter how you chase after the minimal percentage statistics. It's highly possible that people pick up on things you don't or recognize the odds when you want to give the benefit of the doubt.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Satya said:


> If there's anything I have learned from my personal experience and this board, it's that cheaters are excellent at making us believe we know them when in fact we absolutely do not. Most times, they don't even know themselves or own knowing themselves.
> 
> Eta... We have some very rare former cheaters who are the exception!


WE ARE ALL IN THIS WORLD TOGETHER. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.

On Cheaters. They cannot wait for their due, their share. 

We all want. They cannot wait for their number to be called.

They jump the line...and take from some else.

They are us with.... no dignity. No honor. But they have hard ****s, and hot VJ's.

Ruled by cold selfish minds. 

After a hard day, a bad month, don't wake up and see that person in your mirror.

Only you will note the difference. Until the image in the mirror runs headlong into a colder truth.

Your real worth is not between your legs.
It sits atop your shoulders.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She didn't know it was locked. He got in within a minute and they weren't scrambling to get dressed, later when the same man made a pass at her she called her husband and told him.
> 
> Yes there is plenty of reasonable doubt that she didn't sleep with him. Could she have? Sure. But there is doubt enough that you can not say for certain.
> 
> ...


You don't know if she knew the door was locked or not. Only her and the known cheater know. 

Also, we need to stick to this thread. 

We can talk about the other thread later.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ABHale said:


> So what are you really saying about women?
> That they are all lying *****s.


He actually said that in regards to previous sexual partners that men and women are both likely to lie.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> He actually said that in regards to previous sexual partners that men and women are both likely to lie.


And my response is correct in they way he wrote about and referenced women.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Having more partners than you share with people doesn't make anyone a ****. Some things are simply no ones business. 

But the going around and around with either poster of "did she or didn't she" cheat is pointless. None of us know! No one can say she cheated. 

An active affair can be snooped, watched. I fully support doing whatever needed to catch an active or recent affair. 

Anything DECADES ago needs to be let go. You can't prove or disprove. There is reasonable doubt. 

I can't imagine 30 years from now being accused of something I did today. It would ruin my marriage. I couldn't prove it, I would refuse to even spend my time trying to and could even make me end the marriage depending on how he was acting. 

He has a good marriage. He snooped last year and found nothing. Now he needs to work on himself to learn how to let it go. Any "she for sure cheated" is pointless.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Having more partners than you share with people doesn't make anyone a ****. Some things are simply no ones business.
> 
> me end the marriage depending on how he was acting.


It makes them a lire. I would have never married someone that could lie straight to my face. If I found out later it would seriously damage the relationship because of the lie that was told. 

And say, if a man or woman have been waiting for the most part or completely until they find someone to marry, they have the absolute right to know about the past of the one they are wanting to marry. With men and women sleeping around like they do, especially for the first marriage, if one partner asks about the others past, he or she has the right to the truth. More so if one of them has expressed that they have been holding off until they got married.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

For those wondering if she is a cheater, consider this:

When she discovered she had Chlamydia she said she must have got it from a toilet seat! Much later in a different unrelated conversation she said her ex's friend G gave her chlamydia! Why did she lie about it? This is where she established she lies and in this case the reason for the lie would be that she knew sleeping with G was wrong!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

unless initially she had no idea where she got it and later learned "G" had it and most likely got it from him. 
How would she know right off the bat where it came from? 30 years ago even some drs were saying you could get it from a toilet seat. 

She has an ex boyfriend "G". OP said if she cheated it would have to have been another "G" and not the ex. So getting it from ex boyfriend "G" isn't so much the issue.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have a problem with "girls trips" and GNO's. Given what I do for a living, and knowing what could happen, I have a standard in my house: GNO's are strictly monitored, and if she wants to go on a vacation without me, then I will just ask another female, if they would like to travel with me. I was told that I was a bastard last GNO. Why did I NOT want her to go out with her sister. I asked just one question, where are you going for dinner with the girls? Five minutes after her answer, I texted back: Have fun at the cougar bar, do not expect me to be home when you return. I get a text back:"Cougar bar???!!! A) What is a cougar bar, B) I had no idea. So, she calls her sister up, and guess what, the little ***** did not think I would mind. So, I asked her, can I call J-your boyfriend? See if he likes it? The response; "Why don't you just go fu(k yourself!" Let my wife in on the text exchange. You are free to go, you will have my divorce by the end of the week. Wife freaks, you don't trust me? I don't trust your sister! She would get a vicarious thrill out of ending a 40 year marriage just so she could get a wing-girl. The GNO was cancelled. I still told the boyfriend, and guess what? He has a new girl. I am the bastard, hear me roar.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

As a Red Dog to Thatdog.

You needed to get this out. You did.

She now carries that burden that you have lugged around for all those years.

The "imprint" on your shoulders from the weight pushing [in and down] on your skin? Ain't ever going away.

Now, she will have the same "imprint". Fair? Dunno.

You are lighter, she is heavier, that is marriage, that is balancing out the pain.

Ain't it Grand?

Nope.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

On this cruise:

I too would worry.

My pride would not let it show.

False pride, false hope. 

The Cruise? She will likely behave....especially now, after the **** sandwich you served up, methinks.
That sandwich will fester in her gut. Will not digest. Your' future with her is linked to her forgiving digestive enzymes.
Linked to her love quotient for you.

Of course, it could fire up her resolve to punish you for doubting her. Making your accusation a reality....out of wounded pride and spite, years long resentments, mid life crisis, Ad Nauseum.

Every action needs a catalyst. A small nudge. Is this nudge sufficient? Was she already primed? I do not see it. But I live not in your shoes.

Lawd knows, Mister!

Just Sayin'


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

I gotta agree with Taxman. GNO's and especially girls only vacations are no longer tolerated in the MyRev household ... there is just nothing good that comes out of them ... and a girls only cruise ... OH HELL NO. I was naive myself about this subject once ... NEVER again. Once burned and all that jazz. The closest my W gets to a GNO or girls only trip is an annual Christmas shopping trip with my mother, daughter and grand daughter, which I am OK with that scenario for obvious reasons.

I understand you feel you're in an awkward position, but this is really just good common marital sense and its not about just not trusting YOUR W, it's her wingmen on the trip that you've mentioned are suspect and the predators that lurk in these settings. They are there and they are real, and keep in mind that date rape drugs are legal over the counter in many 3rd world countries she may be visiting.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

thatdog, she needed to know this and you know that is true! So not juvenile at all - in fact very healthy and fair of you.

Still call bullish!t on "I can't remember" and "toilet seat" and now "it wasn't treated properly and it came back" and all that [email protected]

She caught chlamydia -FACT.
She got it from having sex (not some toilet seat) - FACT.
She got it while the two of you were in a committed relationship (forget that "it came back again" horsesh!t)
She says she got it from her previous boyfriend. Believe her on that one (maybe).

You didn't handle it well and she thought she got away with it.
It plagued you for your entire married life.
She feels that she could just go ahead and book these kind of trips again because she "hasn't done anything wrong" (that you know of).
You called her out on it (rightly).
She suddenly "doesn't remember" (more horsesh!t) and somehow has you doubting yourself as to whether you did the right thing in calling her out on it.

I lived through this and this is almost an exact replica of what happened and how it played out. I discovered the truth (luckily) by befriending my wife's friend with whom she had fallen out who happened to be there at the time and was heavily involved in the shenanigans! Ruined a chunk of my earlier married life as her story didn't add up. She returned from that trip and fell into my arms crying bitterly because she really missed me! I could tell guilt from a mile away. Got an STD that was explained away by blaming it on a foreign public toilet seat. Got it confirmed by a doctor who was also a friend of my wife and I didn't fully trust. She still denies it despite her ex-friend giving me a blow by blow account of what they did with two french guys in a hotel room.

My wife has been a model wife for the most part since we got married (we were engaged at the time). However, I have NEVER fully trusted her after that and with hindsight, sometimes think that I shouldn't have gone ahead with the marriage.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> To be fair, the wing people are pretty trustworthy. One is married 27 years, the other is divorced, but her spouse cheated on her and, honestly, I don't think she has dated since.
> 
> They do GNOs, but it's to a restaurant and they are home by 10.
> 
> ...


Play this game at your own risk ... I'd at least let your W know that you are not happy about this trip and let her share some of load of marital doubt. She really needs to know that there ARE marital boundaries, and she's getting real close to one of those boundary lines. She may not cross it, but she needs to have it established that its there and that you are uncomfortable with its proximity.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Yes, one of the girls is going/organizing the trip. She is also married. According to her hubby, they haven't had sex in 2 years.


Read ^^this^^ again that you posted earlier and absorb it. Are you sure the trip organizer is "safe"? A middle aged woman who hasn't had sex with her H (notice I didn't say hasn't had sex) in 2 years gets it in her head to organize a girls only cruise ...

This may be appropriate here ... I have a close cousin that was a High School Guidance Counselor who had a front row seat for hundreds (probably thousands) of adolescent girls coming of age, so to speak, and he had a saying for that moment in their lives, which was ... "You can just tell about these girls, as soon as they get it in their heads, it won't be long until they have in their ass". Now fellow BH's ... by a show of hands, how many of your WW's acted like they reverted back to high school during their A's? I even have one of my WW's emails to OM where she flatly states ... "I feel like I'm back in high school". Please take heed of the warnings you're getting ... they are coming from the unfortunate voices of experience.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It didn't have to go away and come back. Most people have no symptoms so it just stays there until they catch it on a test. You don't know. Could have it for years. This is why more drs are doing yearly testing and not just when you have symptoms because most people don't. 

I would not like too many boys nights, drinking at the bar every month but once every few decade boys trip... I can't imagine saying no to that. I wouldn't let someone say no to my wanting to go on a girl trip every few decades either. It would be the end of the marriage if it got to that point.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It didn't have to go away and come back. Most people have no symptoms so it just stays there until they catch it on a test. You don't know. Could have it for years. This is why more drs are doing yearly testing and not just when you have symptoms because most people don't.
> 
> I would not like too many boys nights, drinking at the bar every month but once every few decade boys trip... I can't imagine saying no to that. I wouldn't let someone say no to my wanting to go on a girl trip every few decades either. It would be the end of the marriage if it got to that point.


But would you go if your husband wasn't okay with it? Shouldn't these be decisions that are mutually agreed upon? If one party isn't enthusiastically in agreement then it shouldn't happen. If one party if dead set against it, then it would be highly disrespectful to the spouse.

By the way, cruises are notorious for "cougars" going wild. If my wife went on one it would be a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't want her to be in a tempting situation like that.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Rick Blaine said:


> But would you go if your husband wasn't okay with it? Shouldn't these be decisions that are mutually agreed upon? If one party isn't enthusiastically in agreement then it shouldn't happen. If one party if dead set against it, then it would be highly disrespectful to the spouse.
> 
> By the way, cruises are notorious for "cougars" going wild. If my wife went on one it would be a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't want her to be in a tempting situation like that.


I give and expect enough trust that I could go on a girl trip and he can go on his yearly hunting trip with the guys. If I didn't trust him to not cheat while away, I couldn't trust him to not cheat while home. A marriage with such little trust that a woman can't go on a girl trip once every 30 years is not one I would be in. It would be insulting and controlling to think I couldn't handle myself while away. I would be concerned for a friend who's husband wouldn't "let" her go.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I give and expect enough trust that I could go on a girl trip and he can go on his yearly hunting trip with the guys. If I didn't trust him to not cheat while away, I couldn't trust him to not cheat while home. A marriage with such little trust that a woman can't go on a girl trip once every 30 years is not one I would be in. It would be insulting and controlling to think I couldn't handle myself while away. I would be concerned for a friend who's husband wouldn't "let" her go.


There is a difference between a hunting trip and a cruise. A lot of people hold words like "controlling" and "distrustful" over their spouses in an effort to gaslight them. I'm not suggesting that you are one to gaslight, but we've seen that happen all the time on this forum.

We live in a free world. No husband can stop his wife from doing anything. But couples can set boundaries that they are comfortable with. I would not be in least bit "concerned" over the wife of a friend who wouldn't let him go on a cruise with his other buddies. I would think she was being smart for recognizing that a highly charged environment like a cruise is inappropriate and unsafe. There are other things gals can do together that are safe and appropriate. 

Regardless of the "trust" issue, if each of them don't both enthusiastically agree it should not happen.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Funny enough, we were on a cruise several months ago. We struck up a conversation with a group of women on a “girls only” vacation. They were all married, and they had this “getaway” every year. Every alarm bell in my head went off as they talked. Finally, I leaned into my wife and said; “Keep an eye on this group, it will be entertaining”. That evening, we went into the cigar lounge for a drink and smoke. We were not there five minutes before one of the group members, who had talked about her husband at home, strolls in, lights a cigarette, and plunks herself down next to a very much younger guy. My wife and I watched carefully, from a distance. “Bet you ten bucks, they leave within the next few minutes”. My wife says, nope, she’s married. I say, wait. Not two minutes later, they leave the cigar bar, hand in hand. My wife’s eyes widened. How could she do that? Easy!, I say. There are no husbands around, and that is the point of this vacation. So the wife says, they are all f*cking around on their husbands? My answer, “Pretty much”. Maybe not all of them, but we just got a front row seat. Now do you see why I am down on your sister? I don’t want to have to divorce you because someone led you down the garden path. Your sister has the morals of a mink in heat, she would literally guide another guy’s **** into you, if it meant that she was not the only divorced girl in the family. Only recently has she started understanding that her sibling's behavior is what has led her to one divorce and three SO breakups. As I said, I have let SIL's boyfriend in on her adventures, and he split for the hills. PS, I have told my wife, that if I ever hear the words mistrust , or controlling behavior, that I would let her go on the trip, no problem. She can deal with my divorce lawyer on her return.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Rick Blaine said:


> There is a difference between a hunting trip and a cruise. A lot of people hold words like "controlling" and "distrustful" over their spouses in an effort to gaslight them. I'm not suggesting that you are one to gaslight, but we've seen that happen all the time on this forum.
> 
> We live in a free world. No husband can stop his wife from doing anything. But couples can set boundaries that they are comfortable with. I would not be in least bit "concerned" over the wife of a friend who wouldn't let him go on a cruise with his other buddies. I would think she was being smart for recognizing that a highly charged environment like a cruise is inappropriate and unsafe. There are other things gals can do together that are safe and appropriate.
> 
> Regardless of the "trust" issue, if each of them don't both enthusiastically agree it should not happen.


Meh, he can easily get laid on a hunting trip just as much as anywhere. My Mom and other older (45-65) female relatives go on cruises all the time, there's no hanky panky. It's buffets and shopping. Anywhere _can _be a cheating ground. 

If my bf was constantly wanting to go on guy trips I would have an issue. 1 trip every 3 decades is just fine and should be encouraged. I'd set boundaries of him keeping in contact, not drinking too much, etc but I would trust him enough. I wouldn't be with him if I didn't. To each their own but it would be controlling to me. I can understand not wanting regular GNOs but we're talking about one trip in 30 years.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of Girls Nights, and Girls Trips either. I was fortunate enough to hear enough of my wifes friends and sisters talk about their girls nights to know that I needed to nip them in the bud and lay out my expectations before we got married. The group, most of them married have no problems going to the bar, and while they don't really do the dancing thing or actively pick up guys to take home, they had no problems describing how to hide their hand so their wedding ring is hidden, so guys will buy them drinks. At that point, it becomes coed without significant others and it is no longer a girls night. Not something that I am OK with.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

The last GNO at the cougar bar did me in. I basically told my wife that her sister is not a friend to the marriage, and GNO's with her sister have come to an end, or we will have come to an end. She occasionally threw it in my face, up until last week. SIL asked her to go out again. I put my foot down, and SIL started calling me bastard again. This time, I told my wife, if you go out with her, do not bother EVER coming home. I get, "Why don't you like my sister?" To which I reply," We need your sister's drama like a hole in the head" She seems to have taken it into her head, that we need to break up. My wife disagrees, and says that she will get her sister on the phone and ask her. I say, don't tell her that I am listening in.

The call was made. Five minutes into the conversation, my wife mentions that she thinks SIL does not like me. She hears what I have been saying now for a while. "He is holding you back." "You could do so much better". Bear in mind, we have been married nearly forty years. My wife then says that she cannot believe that blood would want her to divorce. Here is the response of the 40ish woman: "Come on, we could have so much fun picking up guys" "Aren't you curious how the other half lives?" It is at this point I can't contain myself any longer. "HI SIL, how the fvck are you? See, I always thought that you were looking to mess us up so that you could have W go with you to bars" "Go be a ***** with somebody else's wife, and NOT MINE". My ears still ring from the smashed down receiver.

PS, as I said to my wife, that thumping you hear, is your mom and dad doing 33 1/3 in the grave.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Meh, he can easily get laid on a hunting trip just as much as anywhere. My Mom and other older (45-65) female relatives go on cruises all the time, there's no hanky panky. It's buffets and shopping. Anywhere _can _be a cheating ground.
> 
> If my bf was constantly wanting to go on guy trips I would have an issue. 1 trip every 3 decades is just fine and should be encouraged. I'd set boundaries of him keeping in contact, not drinking too much, etc but I would trust him enough. I wouldn't be with him if I didn't. To each their own but it would be controlling to me. I can understand not wanting regular GNOs but we're talking about one trip in 30 years.


But one trip in 30 years is not the problem here. Cruises are meat markets. They are notorious for hook ups between married cougars and single men. The OP is struggling with a serious issue and doesn't need to be told he is being controlling. He needs to be fortified with the courage to set healthy boundaries in his marriage.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

thatdog said:


> So, similar but not the same.
> 
> As far as it coming back, that's not something she came up with, it's something that I found while researching chlamydia. She says she only remembers getting it from "g", who was before me and the timeline is off. So, yeah, either she cheated and caught it twice, or the initial infection went dormant and came back a year or 2 later (this is a real thing with this STD).
> 
> ...


No crying doesn't mean she didn't do it - just means that she could cover up better than others. And the toilet seat comment would have alerted me. However it doesn't seem to matter with you so good luck going forward - I am not sure why you raised this in the first place as it is well and truly swept under a huge rug.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I've talked on here before about my "gno's," which amount to the same 4-5 women going out to a restaurant or other venue that has live music, we sit together at a table (not a bar) and we catch up. Sometimes, groups of men have approached us and we've had some lighthearted, short, polite conversation (how's the weather... latest sports, etc), but then explain that it's really a girls' night to catch-up, we'd been looking forward to meeting up, and we'd like to be alone.

I'm exceedingly polite but to the point. Either the men will leave in a bit of a huff or they'll completely understand and go scope out some other women. 

Sometimes women do just want to go out with other women and they have no ulterior motives. I've witnessed plenty of gno's gone wrong when I've also been out, so I know they exist, but I know the wholesome version exists, too.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Satya said:


> Sometimes women do just want to go out with other women and they have no ulterior motives. I've witnessed plenty of gno's gone wrong when I've also been out, so I know they exist, but I know the wholesome version exists, too.


Most men have zero issues with GNO's when they are like what you describe. The problem is part of our current culture expecting GNO's to be at dance clubs, with copious booze and dirty dancing. Most posters that talk about GNO's don't distinguish between the two, so the meaning of GNO's is not clear....

In this thread, I am pretty sure the OP would describe GNO's as the type I describe above, not as you describe. Also, a GNO cruise is probably 'more wrong' than what I describe.....


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Meh, he can easily get laid on a hunting trip just as much as anywhere. My Mom and other older (45-65) female relatives go on cruises all the time, there's no hanky panky. It's buffets and shopping. Anywhere _can _be a cheating ground.


If the hunting trip is in Las Vegas maybe ... an actual hunting trip? No chance. A cruise on the other hand ....


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

too easy to hide it on cruise ship, unless several of her friends are better friends with you or they are related to you. You would be shocked at how much gets hidden from spouse A, when spouse B has the opportunity and bad boundaries and little or no stopping forces. Her friends will hide anything from you in support of their friend. Not saying this happens to everyone or is universal. Cruise ships are notorious for bad behavior.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

td, I'm sorry to read your decision to rug sweep. I'm also sorry for you for having to tamp down your self respect far enough to ignore the obvious red flags your W is waving in your face. I've been where you are, and I'm ashamed of myself for ignoring my own flags, but I learned a hard earned lesson about respecting myself first.

A few years ago, I ran across this piece and I re-read it often to help keep myself properly calibrated:

The Guy in the Glass

by Dale Wimbrow, (c) 1934

When you get what you want in your struggle for self,
And the world makes you King for a day,
Then go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what that guy has to say.

For it isn't your Father, or Mother, or Wife,
Whose judgement upon you must pass.
The feller whose verdict that counts most in your life
Is the guy staring back from the glass.

He's the feller to please, never mind all the rest,
For he's with you clear up to the end,
And you've passed your most dangerous, difficult test
If the guy in the glass is your friend.

You may be like Jack Horner and "chisel" a plum,
And think you're a wonderful guy,
But the man in the glass says you're only a bum
If you can't look him straight in the eye.

You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But your final reward will be heartaches and tears
If you've cheated the guy in the glass.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Look ... I've already shared my story with you and the similar red flags you are ignoring now are the same one's I ignored 10 years ago and have regretted since. Maybe I'm projecting somewhat due to these similarities, or maybe its just one guy sharing his personal experiences with another guy in a similar situation.

Admittedly, none of us know your situation and your W and well as you, but a lot of times that familiarity leads to misplaced trust and complacency.

My W was very defensive when I questioned unusually close relationships with a group of coworkers ... your W got defensive and evasive when questioned about her past bf's and how/when she contracted a STD.

In the midst of a bad spot in our relationship, my W and her 2 longest term gf's (both of which had been prior OW's) went on a tropical resort girls only vacation ... You are now going through a time of marital conflict and your W is planning a cruise (notorious for being the setting for bad WW behaviors) with at least one other middle aged woman in a sexless M, which you yourself admit to being uncomfortable with.

We've seen this scenario play out before ... H comes to an infidelity forum seeking answers to calm his gut feeling ... he is shocked by the experienced responses he receives and he adjusts into Hero Husband mode and flips to defending his W's innocence. He is so conditioned to defending his W that he ignores his gut warnings and gets upset at the anonymous internet guy that would dare question his W's motives, even though he originally came here questioning his W's unexplained behaviors/actions/moods etc.

It is my belief that you don't know your W nearly as well as you believe you do ... just like many of us found out our W's were capable of things we would have never believed, but have now had to accept as hard disgusting fact. No one likes the taste of the **** sandwich we were force fed against our will ... some learn to acquire a taste for it, and some spit it out. To me, I've found its all about self-respect, and I've now learned to value my self-respect above my M, because I can't be a good H unless I am comfortable with that guy in the glass.

I've shared my own experiences and advice ... what you do with it is up to you ... as they say "use what you can and leave the rest".


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Hmmm...point is she got it and it wasn't from you. I don't think you ever really got over it but fooled yourself into thinking so. Given it is almost 30 years are you willing to break up over it? I think something else is going on in your relationship which is making this surface.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> What would you suggest I do at this point, other than STFU and trust but verify?


We can't change what happened 30 years ago, and after all this time you've missed your window of opportunity to act on that incident, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that that knowledge is not useful now or in the future, and STFU is just not my style.

I'm much more concerned about the upcoming cruise with 2 questionable wingmen (one of which knows what happened 30 years ago and has covered for your W all these years and the other is in a sexless M) ... I would be compelled to state my piece and have my W share the burden of anxiety caused by her decisions. In all sincerity, you have valid reasons for concern and I would calmly make a statement like: "I am uncomfortable with the idea of this girls only cruise. Obviously, you are free to make your own choices, but after 30 years, I would hope you would have enough respect for me to do what you can to alleviate those concerns."

You have now placed the ball squarely in her court and how she responds will tell you volumes. Her best response would be to validate your concerns by backing out of the trip or in the alternative work jointly with you on a plan to alleviate your concerns while she's on the trip. Getting angry, defensive, pissy, attempts to manipulate or blowing off your valid concerns are signs you've got a bigger problem than you even considered.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

So your W denies the cheating ever happened that you "know" occurred, but you suspect she just forgot about her one night stand?

Did you W also deny that she had an emotional connection with whomever this ONS person was? Because sometimes the physical encounter is the culmination of a long emotional affair and it ends after that. 

That is one of the possible scenarios with my W as she was devastated when she made her quasi -confession to me. I suspect OM1 cut her off suddenly. 

Tamat


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

thatdog,

One thought is that now may be a good time to var the car, since she is most likely to discuss it with someone else immediately after the issue has been raise. Or possibly raise the issue again but be ready for her.

Tamat


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

thatdog said:


> Thank you, this is very helpful.
> 
> I don't think the wingwomen are very questionable. In fact, I would say I trust these 2 women the most of any of our female friends. I really think the woman in the DB is having serious issues with menopause and is LL. The single friend is not a ****. I don't even think she has really dated since her divorce. I know she is anti-cheating.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for how harsh this will sound, but the above bolded 3 short sentences illustrate the basic problems you're facing ... you're afraid of your W and she has no respect for you.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

Your infatuation with this 30 year-old event that you have no proof of is weak sauce. If she did cheat she buried it because it wasn't who she wanted to be or become. She isn't pinning over her lost love or what could have been. This wasn't 5 years ago.

If she wants to now cheat on you it wouldn't take a cruise or a gno to do so. No amount of threatening or warning is going to change your spouse's mind if that decision has already been made. Life is too short to live with someone who is actively cheating or pinning for a lost love and cheating in their mind.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## thatdog (Aug 30, 2017)

Deleted for too many personal details.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I give and expect enough trust that I could go on a girl trip and he can go on his yearly hunting trip with the guys. If I didn't trust him to not cheat while away, I couldn't trust him to not cheat while home. A marriage with such little trust that a woman can't go on a girl trip once every 30 years is not one I would be in. It would be insulting and controlling to think I couldn't handle myself while away. I would be concerned for a friend who's husband wouldn't "let" her go.


My friend found out about his wife's boyfriend and decided to try to R.

She goes on these lovely GNO activities. He finds out about two more married boyfriends.

She and her friends were not friends of the marriage.

He is in deep pain. Cheated on not only with one OM , but three. So I do hope all that use their energy with their friends on these GNO to get the stds and get the divorces they deserve. 


Go on your GNO, but take your kids with you so they can see your activities. But do your spouse a favor and give him a decent D before you go on your trips. 

It is not good to do this to our men and women in the service of our country. It messes with their head while using guns.

You have really triggered me with your comments. 

Wait until some female with your attitude does this to your son. I helped me son get his D.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

harrybrown said:


> My friend found out about his wife's boyfriend and decided to try to R.
> 
> She goes on these lovely GNO activities. He finds out about two more married boyfriends.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that I triggered you but people can and will cheat anywhere. If not a GNO then a work trip or a grocery store trip or a dog walk in the park. People who will cheat will find a way. 

To each their own where they draw the line but somewhere I have to let go and trust in him. If he has given me no reasons to believe he will break boundaries, hasn't had any sketchy behavior in say, 30 years, and we are a solid and loving couple I would trust him. I sure wouldn't want him going all the time but meeting with some old friends every few decades, I just can not see myself saying no to. Not if he's been a good husband to me for 30 years.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Okay final comment from me on this and then I am laying it to rest.

I'll start by saying I do not expect you two to break up over this. You came here because you were uneasy about something (we refer to this as your gut). You have now turned this into an insecurity problem of yours - fair enough (but be careful here - do not confuse gut feeling for insecurity).

*Your wife had an STD that showed up close enough in time while she was with you for it to be cheating. Her first explanation was "toilet seat".* Now if I stop just there - that would have been pretty damn suspicious to me. Further explanations came later (some from her and some from you) which may or may not be true, which are:

She got it from an ex, G.
It was possibly dormant for some time and then just resurfaced.

She says she doesn't remember - waywards remember their indiscretions especially if it led to an STD and also if there weren't that many to start with.

You 100% rug swept the hell out of it and are doing nothing now but trying to backtrack.

You refer to it as pre-marriage but when you started this thread, you referred to the very same time as "when we were in a committed relationship" - see how this has changed over the course of this thread.

If she did cheat (which seems highly probable), she lived with it very comfortably - which means she didn't think it was a big deal at all (not good on the basic morals set). Wayward thinking in such circumstances typically is: "I needed some fun so I had it - there was no real damage so what's the problem". The ability to think like this hasn't disappeared or gone away. It could reappear at any time which is why people here are saying be vigilant - you are kind of agreeing but then defending her. We are not saying she is going to cheat. Just that she very well could.

However not knowing has been eating away at you and yes, a poly would help - but at what cost ? You are very afraid of the consequences of doing this (even if it would put your mind at rest after all these years). Something only you can work out.

Your marriage was low enough at one stage to result in her possibly leaving the marriage last year. What would have happened if she thought she was leaving the marriage and went on this cruise then (with her friends in tow)? Would she have thought (and explained to them) that she was leaving the marriage so she was a free agent ? Could she have cheated under these circumstances ? Well, her past behaviour would tell you that "yes" she could and again, would feel absolutely no guilt.

But it appears that she is in a good place now (according to you) so this is not likely to happen. Good for you. But it doesn't put your mind at rest as to what already happened or what type of person she really is (and has been for 30 years). And you are choosing to blank this out (you call it "stfu and trust but verify") - again, your call.

So in concluding, many here are not convinced that she didn't cheat all those years ago and are not convinced that you really know your wife's true nature - just what she shows you. And this may be all you need to stay happy. But are you really happy ? Only you can answer that and if "fixing" your "insecurity" makes you feel better then c'est la vie. Also many feel that you are afraid of your wife and she is the one that calls the shots in your relationship i.e. it is less of a 50:50 relationship.

I hope you manage to find some peace with this, but think closely about why you came here in the first place and how your stance has changed as soon as home truths started to come out.


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