# Husband Keeps Spending



## wah2much

I have talked this over with my husband and it has done no good so I'm open for advise.

My husband is horrible with money. He gets on these kicks where he NEEDS things (guns, bow and arrow, cars, fishing poles, whatever) and has to buy them. 

We have tried to solve the issue by having a bank account for all our bills and then a separate account for both of us which has set amount of dollars per month in it for spending on whatever we desire. The thought was, if he HAD to have something he would save up the money in the account and then buy it without putting us in the poor house. However, it hasn't worked. 

He doubled the amount we originally agreed upon and then blows through that money, then moves onto money from our company, then moves on to credit cards, then to the money which should be used for bills. 

Whenever I confront him with the fact that we don't have money for groceries he always says he knows he is the problem, but then is at it again the next day. He has completely maxed out a credit card with purchases for himself. 

I end up spending the money in my account for groceries, clothes for the kids and gas. It really makes me angry. When I bring up the issue he immediately goes on the attack and brings up anything and everything ELSE which is a problem in out marriage which he then twists to be completely my fault and pretty soon he is acting holy than thou and how dare I be so hateful to him to deny him a few dollars to have fun. 

I have slowing been adding more and more money to my account to make sure there is enough money for the bills to be paid but, why? Shouldn't this be a partnership? This can't seriously be how a marriage is supposed to work. I'm tired of being the adult while he runs around acting like a teenager.

Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?


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## hehasmyheart

Yeah, I've been in that same spot for years, though mine spends all the money, then resorts to credit cards while I do without. I don't believe there is any money to spend if there is debt, so I won't spend on myself. Suddenly, he wakes up one day & decides he's in over his head & WE need to file bankruptcy. It's at $47,000 in credit card debt now.

He promises he's changed, and doesn't want to be selfish anymore. I have no admiration for such a self-centered man. The kids and I will look like we're on welfare, just so he can flash his fancy vehicle and latest gadget. Yuck!

I told him he needs to go to Debtors Anonymous (12-step program), but he says he's already hit rock bottom & doesn't need it because he's already done all those things.

If you are bible believers, you could send this to him:

Question: "What are some modern forms of idolatry?"

Answer: All the various forms of modern idolatry have one thing at their core: self. We no longer bow down to idols and images. Instead we worship at the altar of the god of self. This brand of modern idolatry takes various forms. 

First, we worship at the altar of materialism which feeds our need to build our egos through the acquisition of more “stuff.” Our homes are filled with all manner of possessions. We build bigger and bigger houses with more closets and storage space in order to house all the things we buy, much of which we haven’t even paid for yet. Most of our stuff has “planned obsolescence” built into it, making it useless in no time, and so we consign it to the garage or other storage space. Then we rush out to buy the newest item, garment or gadget and the whole process starts over. This insatiable desire for more, better, and newer stuff is nothing more than covetousness. The tenth commandment tells us not to fall victim to coveting: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor" (Exodus 20:17). God doesn’t just want to rain on our buying sprees. He knows we will never be happy indulging our materialistic desires because it is Satan’s trap to keep our focus on ourselves and not on Him. 

Second, we worship at the altar of our own pride and ego. This often takes the form of obsession with careers and jobs. Millions of men—and increasingly more women—spend 60-80 hours a week working. Even on the weekends and during vacations, our laptops are humming and our minds are whirling with thoughts of how to make our businesses more successful, how to get that promotion, how to get the next raise, how to close the next deal. In the meantime, our children are starving for attention and love. We fool ourselves into thinking we are doing it for them, to give them a better life. But the truth is we are doing it for ourselves, to increase our self-esteem by appearing more successful in the eyes of the world. This is folly. All our labors and accomplishments will be of no use to us after we die, nor will the admiration of the world, because these things have no eternal value. As King Solomon put it, “For a man may do his work with wisdom, knowledge and skill, and then he must leave all he owns to someone who has not worked for it. This too is meaningless and a great misfortune. What does a man get for all the toil and anxious striving with which he labors under the sun? All his days his work is pain and grief; even at night his mind does not rest. This too is meaningless” (Ecclesiastes 2:21-23). 

Third, we idolize mankind—and by extension ourselves—through naturalism and the power of science. This gives us the illusion that we are lords of our world and builds our self-esteem to godlike proportions. We reject God’s Word and His description of how He created the heavens and the earth, and we accept the nonsense of evolution and naturalism. We embrace the goddess of environmentalism and fool ourselves into thinking we can preserve the earth indefinitely when God has declared the earth has a limited lifespan and will last only until the end of the age. At that time, He will destroy all that He has made and create a new heaven and new earth. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness” (2 Peter 3:10-13). As this passage so clearly states, our focus should not be on worshipping the environment, but on living holy lives as we wait eagerly for the return of our Lord and Savior, who alone deserves worship. 

Finally, and perhaps most destructively, we worship at the altar of self-aggrandizement or the fulfillment of the self to the exclusion of all others and their needs and desires. This manifests itself in self-indulgence through alcohol, drugs, and food. Those in affluent countries have unlimited access to alcohol, drugs (prescription drug use is at an all-time high, even among children), and food. Obesity rates in the U.S. have skyrocketed, and childhood diabetes brought on by overeating is epidemic. The self-control we so desperately need is spurned in our insatiable desire to eat, drink, and medicate more and more. We resist any effort to get us to curb our appetites, and we are determined to make ourselves the god of our lives. This has its origin in the Garden of Eden where Satan tempted Eve to eat of the tree with the words “you will be like God” (Genesis 3:5). This has been man’s desire ever since—to be god and, as we have seen, the worship of self is the basis of all modern idolatry.

All idolatry of self has at its core the three lusts found in 1 John 2:16: “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” If we are to escape modern idolatry, we have to admit that it is rampant and reject it in all its forms. It is not of God, but of Satan, and in it we will never find fulfillment. This is the great lie and the same one Satan has been telling since he first lied to Adam and Eve. Sadly, we are still falling for it. Even more sadly, many churches are propagating it in the preaching of the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel built on the idol of self-esteem. But we will never find happiness focusing on ourselves. Our hearts and minds must be centered on God and on others. This is why when asked what is the greatest commandment, Jesus replied, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” (Matthew 22:37). When we love the Lord and others with everything that is in us, there will be no room in our hearts for idolatry.


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## Benevolence

And now for the non-biblical version... 

Your husband is a selfish jerk that will never change, you need to take control of all the money.. yours AND his. 

Put him on allowance, if he doesn't agree to it tell him to take a hike!


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## EleGirl

Your husband has a serious mental health issue. The reason he spends money is that he gets a brain chemistry high when he gets his new prize. 

Put him on an allowance. Remove him from every account including business ones. This is not all that different from a gambling addtion.

And then take him to a psychiatrist.

It might end up that the only way to protect yourself financaily is to divorce him. At least that way he cannot put you in debt.


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## bluelaser

wah2much said:


> Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?


You could try but at some point you will realize that you have to save yourself. Just make sure its not too late to stand up on your own. 

Some spouses get a D to limit their financial liability since they may be responsible at least in part for whatever debt the spending spouse racks up. Also keep monitoring your credit for signs for financial infidelity (he could open accounts in your name without your knowledge).


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?


Only YOU can decide what to do for you & your child(ren).

I WALKED after 19 years of selfishness on his part. I was reading around on TAM and believe my STBXH has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I am working, paying my bills ON TIME. It is a VERY LIBERATING feeling. I sleep better, am happy, have confidence in myself and no longer 'wish away' the future. I am looking forward to the next 10 years (and I'm in my mid-50s).

It's not TOO LATE to start over the RIGHT WAY.


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## luvintokyo

:iagree::iagree::iagree:
You teach people the way they treat you. If you dont stop he wont stop. I divorced after 18yrs and my exH is just starting to learn, he now rents a room in a house not having learnt how to pay his bills all those years, he makes over 100k per year, I am not getting any alimony and he is not paying the child support as agreed. The least you can do is keep your money.


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## Michael A. Brown

You must help your husband to overcome that character.


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## Navy3

you can't make some face up.you can try & try&try until you're blue in the face - had years of this with my husband (who i love v much),it is only now that he senses a real change in my own attitude(i've told him any more & i won't lend £ from family to bail him out again once this present lot is re paid again). that is scary because i must follow that through otherwise if he repeats it again i will be setting a pattern for the rest of my married life.

we were looking at BR his debts ran up over £50k, 3 yrs earlier he had £25k cc's& bullied me into a huge secured loan too. i've told him if he does it again I will go BR,lose my share of the house & divorce him to protect myself from what he does. i will do it,do i want too? no, i don't,it'd break my heart but i can't live in this fear any more.

you have to think about what YOU are going to do,if a wife or husband is in denial nothing will budge them,i've heard all the promises before,"i won't do it again,EVER i swear", "this is the LAST time, i'm not going through this again", "i really mean it this time","no more credit cards EVER", "do you think i should get a Capital One card...just to re build my credit rating?"....,"I'm sorry,no i REALLY mean it this time","it just snowballed,it ran away from me","i was desperate".

things were so bad i had no £ for food,a terrifying place to be. he says he loves me but this doesn't feel v loving.
i go to church too,i can forgive but that doesn't mean i can forget.


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## turnera

There are just some situations in your marriage where you have to take over. Cut him off all accounts; monitor him and if he opens new ones, cancel them. You're going to have to be the meanie in this and if he tries to blame it on you, tell him tough and that he's getting one last chance to stay married and that means complying. AND getting mental help because what he does is an illness and needs addressed.


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## CaliRN

Cant change someone who doesn't want to. Time to decide to accept things how they are or move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Navy3

Hi, things are not so simple for me just walking away,i've got a disability - my husband is also my carer,i'm on benifits,i feel v vulnerable with this added problem. he's got so much debt i can't even pay for anyone else to come in & help me at the moment. but even if i wasn't disabled i wouldn't want to just throw the towel in on him, we've been married a long time & i do love him. i'm scared but i hope he will get help & sort himself out. knowing i DO have a choice if he does it again has helped -i'd lose my share of the house though, he's seen me looking at BR on the pc - he knows i mean it.

But, this has got to stop. he's had a letter through for his counceling - he's a wreck about it,facing it all. he would never admit he needed help until now.

he's agreed to having our Experian credit file checked every yr,it's the only thing i can think of that would show up any other accounts he might open without telling me . if he refuses i'll know right away he's started again.i can only check/keep an eye on what i know about - he has internet access at work. i hear what you guy's say,babysitting a adult is hard going & can feel v frustrating!!

i'm sure you're right that he has a mental health problem. still wonder if it's gambling or some sort of debt addiction - only just found out there was such a thing as a debt addiction this week!!!!


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## turnera

Disabled or not, unfortunately, you are going to have to step up and push your comfort zone and be the bad guy here. You just are. If you are disabled, and you were to leave him he would likely have to continue to pay for your care. And if you're in the US, there are many other avenues to take care of finances besides him. Never let money be the reason you stay. 

Now, aside from that, it's fixable, IF you start speaking out and REFUSING to allow it to continue. 

btw, looking at Experian once a year won't cut it. You need to demand complete access to his accounts, YOUR name on them so you have the right to make changes (cut off access).


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## the liberal one

by looking at your situation i think you should give him an ultimatum on whether he stop spending or not. He is actually being abusive and non-communicative at the problems that he was facing (if he ever knows). 

2-solutions divorce or separate bank account

not sure if my advice are suitable or not and i hate to say that money is what it holds the marriage together (as well as other factors)


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## Navy3

Hi, i must admit i felt so down & sad reading your replies, i cried. 

Disability DOES make it harder for someone like me to just leave, my home is adapted for my needs, so i couldn't just go into a ordinary rental home & i need daily support. i could not physically pack & load a car with my stuff- i'd need help,i've no family who live near me, my only friends i'd talk to are a retired vicar & his wife who because of their beliefs would discourage me from leaving him,( i don't want to leave him - but i can't take any more of this". fleetingly when this last lot of debt "hit" i remember thinking about suicide & "i can't cope with this", it was fleetingly but i felt so overwhelmed).
besides all that - i've got no money to cover a deposit or even an advance of 1mths rent - if i didn't laugh at being in such a state(eyes full) i'd be weeping. i've got a saving account that i'm trying to save tiny bits up,it's soooo slow as the £ is tied up paying debts. it is a revelation to me to realise i DON'T have to take any more,i alway felt i had no choice,i can go BR myself & let him sort it all out himself.now my Dr knows i think she would help me.

I've been very clear with him what i will do if he does it again. He's seen me looking at bankruptcy on the pc,i've got housing forms,opened a new basic bank account so if he starts again i will change where my £ is paid into AND i've told my Dr - broken the secrecy/silence of it. 

just having a separate bank account isn't enough to protect myself, as his wife i'd be liable for what he doesn't repay debtors - BR & divorce would be the only way. 
for now a joint bank account means i can check things 
like the mortgage are being paid.

i accept it is financial abuse,it's very hard seeing it for what it is. he's used my ill health against me to do some of the things & played on my mental health saying some awful lies to cover himself. i'm finding it very difficult & it continues to be distressing.

you can demand all you like,if you're dealing with someone who is covering something up/lying they will only tell you what they want to. i will never know if he's telling me the WHOLE TRUTH because it is not the first time. he is so frustrated with me for not trusting him:scratchhead:!!!!, i can't understand how on earth he thinks i ought to feel reassured by him how on earth does he expect me to listen to him & feel reassured????. 

i hope his counselling helps him as i can't see any other way right now. i will continue to save the tiny bits that i can.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

This spending of his is an addiction. He's not going to get better unless he gets professional help. 

There are a few family members of mine that are spenders including my own mother. They shop every single weekend.:/. My mother actually admitted to me she had a spending problem about a month ago. This was after years of irrational spending and denying the problem. She's done nothing to solve this addiction of hers.

Good luck. It's hard to convince someone that has a problem that is in denial. I'm not sure if they have help in your area that specializes in shopping addiction.

One thing you might want to do is control all the finances. His too.


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## Navy3

Thanks for your reply. he has a appointment next wk for a assesment for his councelling,he's v worked up about it. i hope he will go,i'm encouraging him to.

he told me last week that i could(!) check in all the paperwork/statements we have in a file ( we did a Full & Final IVA - Individual Voluntary Agreement to pay a settlement figure off the total debt,it was a % of the amount. my Dad lent us the £ but we're repaying it back each mth). 

i've spent hours looking through the papers,they're all statements of final amounts. there's not ONE single statement showing what he's spent/bought or done! he has burnt anything that showed what he was doing!


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## turnera

Oh, that's not good. You need to tell him that if one more piece goes missing, he is out on his ass. Put the fear of God into him.


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## LearningLifeQDay

Wah2much...Spending is a difficult behavior to modify or control. I was in a lot of debt, but my late wife was very good handling money and sorted our finances out. She was the best! She was always very level-headed. I made a conscious effort not to buy 'toys' and have maintained that out look since. It took getting rid of everything and starting 'fresh' to see what is really important in life.
I do believe that what's happening on the outside is a reflection of what's going on in our minds. 
"Be happy with what you have and not with what you don't have."
I say this to myself everyday...
Good luck.


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## Navy3

I'm feeling very rattled. i had housing forms which "dissapeared"(i didn't tackle him on it), i think he's been going through my things because i found them pushed to the bottom of a drawer a few days ago, gone in the drawer today & they've gone- i've not moved them.

i'm very wary because he was asking about a envelope i have with passwords/numbers in a couple of days ago. it all seems to be feeling very scary. 
if he does the dirty on me i've not got £ to live somewhere else wiith all the debts,i don't know where i'd go.


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## turnera

Start moving EVERYTHING paperwork into your car or a neighbor's house. Please.


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## Navy3

turnera said:


> Start moving EVERYTHING paperwork into your car or a neighbor's house. Please.


I haven't got anyone at all to ask to mind things. I have a Motability 
car & he takes it to work each day. I walk with a wheeler walking aid
& have a scooter that are in the car. He accused me of being out
every day while he's at work but my mobility aids are in the car!!
He came in at lunch & smirked when I tried to talk to him about 
things. I feel scared. He's worked up about counselling because 
it says in the forms if other household members are thought to be 
at risk other agencies may be informed. There have been a handful
of minor physical things with him, he said he's scared I could paint
him in a bad light. I haven't even told my Dr about it though. 
It feels scary, as if he's showing me who's boss. 
Our oldest has turned up suddenly to stay for a wk so it's unlikely
he'll be too loud etc with him in the house.
I've changed passwords & I''m using my phone but wary
of this too as he works for the phone network I'm with & he has my 
phone in his name.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Memento

Simple: your husband is using material goods to fulfill is emotional needs. It doesn't work.
He get a high feeling whenever he buys something new, but that feeling doesn't last long. That's why keeps on buying stuff he doesn't actually needs.


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## turnera

He is not your boss. Given that he's destroying the marriage, YOU need to be boss. At least for now. Stand up to him and STOP what he's doing. And be creative about your paperwork. ASK a neighbor to help you. Call an agency. 

Oh, and ignore his bullchit about threatening you. I know you're not in the US but there HAVE to be some sort of agencies that can help you there. Get proactive and find ways to change your dynamics. You don't have to be beholden to him. Start today!


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## Navy3

thankyou for the replies. I've felt so frightened,not sleeping & got a upset stomache. 

he got more worked up as his appointment got closer but he went today,( i went with him for support & partly to make sure he went if i'm honest). he talked afterwards more openly than i've ever heard him be. 

he's been offered C.B.T so he's waiting for a appointment now. the guy said as my hubby ( and I) are working to a plan that works right now why did he need help??? hubby is ALWAYS transparent in this stage,he has no choice,a debt plan in place,he's black listed for credit so his hands are tied - although he's now at the stage where v high interest credit card companies are offering him cards,in this phase he ALWAYS promises he won't do it again,he KNOWS this is the right way to be - he just never sticks to a budget when the debts are clear. 
it was strange the guy said hubby is v negative - the husband i see/hear is incredibly positive to the point of being scary & very unrealistic about goals for repaying all this debt & his outlook on problems, it seems a total "flip" of what i experience.

i got a book about manipulation,"who's pulling your strings?", "seeing" things,understanding more is both shocking & upsetting but i'm working at it - learing what my "hooks" are. i've ordered "financial infidelity" too.

the guy suggested Relate,marriage counseling, we went a few yrs ago, all the time he was running up (10's of)thousands £ of debt in secret so i don't see the point of that. 

I'm trying to save tiny bits where i can but getting to put it away is v difficult,i can't get out without help,my son's home still so will get him to take me before he goes.

I feel so terribly tired & sad. it feels like i've stepped back from him emotionally. I'm glad he went today. It feels better not holding all his secrets. i feel so alone,no family etc to talk to,thankyou.


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## turnera

Navy3 said:


> it was strange the guy said hubby is v negative - the husband i see/hear is incredibly positive to the point of being scary & very unrealistic about goals for repaying all this debt & his outlook on problems, it seems a total "flip" of what i experience.


That just proves that he puts on an act. For at least ONE of you.

CBT is ESSENTIAL for someone like him, who is addicted and who cannot be himself. It's the best therapy out there. Good job. And even if your marriage doesn't work out, he'll be better off.


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## Navy3

yes i'm seeing that, no wonder i've got a upset tummy. i'm so on edge,he cuddled up to me in bed & i had a panic attack!! 

i was upset & rang Samaritan's, the lady i spoke to asked was i sure he hadn't been gambling? i think it's likely. he had 25k in cc's,pressured me into a secured loan for £50k(told me he'd clear the cc debt but looking back i've no proof he did & cut the cards up, he admits to cutting one up then ringing up saying he's lost it so they re issue a new one.)3 yrs later over £50k of debts again,about 9(!!!!) cards,a secret loan of £15k on our joint bank account,secret overdraft of thousands,secret bank account & overdraft. i know i've not got/had the material things to account for even 1/4 of all that.

i found a old statement that showed £20 transactions for lottery,i told him,he said,"you can't pay for lottery with a card" BUT he looked far away,not sure what he was remembering but there was something,. maybe he was paying online??? that is the ONLY statement showing any transaction he made,he burnt the rest,so i only know balances.

it makes me wonder how he's painting me in all this because he lies to cover himself. i'm seeing a whole other side to him,it's scary & v upsetting. i've told him he needs the C.B.T for himself not just us.


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## turnera

Who cares how he paints you?! He's RUINING YOUR LIFE.

Do something. You CAN be the 'mean' person here, if it affects YOUR finances and YOUR future. Get mad.


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## Navy3

Hi, things have felt very tense. hubby has now had 2 asessments for therapy. they've said he needs 1 to 1 CBT,Conselling, group CBT. he told me they said he needed all 3??? now he's saying ,no just one of them -1 to 1 CBT so i'm a bit confused! he should start in the new yr.

at times i've felt so overwhelmed... scary. letting go of worrying about what he will/will not do is awful. i'm trying really hard but struggling. looking back over times he's done this,all the broken promises...

seeing my part,all the times he's done this & i've bailed him out by entering debt repayment things ie County Court Junctions, IVA, borrowing from my parents. keeping it a secret to protect his pride etc,going without,to the point of being on the breadline,not being able to afford equipment i need ie a new mobility scooter etc etc.
The allowing money for alcohol(giving up my own money when he still had some!! He let me go short to get his beer, banging my head against the wall with frustration with MYSELF), one scary word - ENABLING!!! God help me!

i'm sooo long into some of these patterns i'm not "seeing" what goes on, how he manipulates me until the deed is done. i'm clinging onto the fact that i'm aware/seeing things now.

I've told both our grown up children the full facts & figures of the debts. they are both v shocked. hubby was VERY angry with me for telling them. the youngest is difficult - not wanting to pay keep when he comes home,he'll be home for a mth over Christmas, i can't cover that- so i emailed him now he's crystal clear on why & the amount of £ i expect off him to cover his food costs. i shared the email with our eldest & my hubby so i've been v open about it.

hubby is making alsorts of promises & is angry & frustrated with me for not trusting him, i told him,"you trained me not to trust YOU, you did a really good job". i'd be a fool to trust him. 

he was trying to get me to go halves with him on euro lottery because he didn't want to spend all his money ENABLING bell clanging in my ear!! he tries to sabotage me saving - i think his thought being if i have no £ i can't leave. 

i've been reading up on enabling & codependancy. i can see i've been protecting him,"helping" him to not face the root of his getting into debt. so depressing/frightening but i need to be much more aware AND ready incase he repeats. i'm so tired but more aware.
the support has helped,thankyou.


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## turnera

Ah, too bad so sad...he looks bad to his kids.

Should have thought of that before.

Just make a promise to yourself - and tell your KIDS the promise - that you will not give him a single pound until he's gone 6 months without asking for any. Every time he asks for some, the clock gets set back to 0.

One thing I suggest is to get yourself financially sound so you can at least pay the bills whether he's around or not. That way, you have power over your own life. It is VERY empowering - VERY. Start putting away a teeny bit here, and tiny bit there, where he can't find it. You need an emergency fund. If anyone asks what you want for Christmas, if you do Christmas, tell them money, that you're starting a savings account.

Once you have that to fall back on, you will feel safer to stand up to him.


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## Navy3

Hi, thanks for your reply.

yes i've got a savings account now, putting tiny bits in when i can, our oldest is at home now so he'll give me a lift to put it away - getting my wheels(walking aid) in out of the car feels like a battle at times with hubby. 

i've asked the bank to not send statements so hubby can't pry - it's driving him mad not knowing what i've got:scratchhead: - it isn't much but he'll want it. i told him im saving up to get Bankruptcy fees (£750) together because that's what i'll do if he does it again - at this rate it'll take me yrs lol.

me having no £ ties me to him- dependancy. i haven't got enough income to pay all the bills myself, i would need to go into council housing with carer support. but i won't be without food £ again.
Thankyou.


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## turnera

You may also want to incorporate your grown kids into helping you find solutions.


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## Navy3

our youngest won't hear a word on the problems,he's v close to his Dad. i tried to talk to him about paying keep when he's home(we've got so much debt I can't cover our grown up sons staying without chipping in,the food budget won't stretch). 

hubby & i had a row because the last time this son was home he didn't pay keep. i get left to ask/push for it,so i end up feeling like "the bad guy". the youngest wouldn't listen,i end up upset so i wrote him a email telling him the figures of debt,explained i loved him but can't keep him. laid it out how much i expected him to pay &how often. he was very shocked but ok.

our oldest is in the forces &will go back to camp soon. there's little he can do if away. he "sees"
how my husband "encourages" our youngest to drink so that HE has a drinking buddy etc etc.

its difficult. the youngest has his Dad held high in regard,he can't bare to "see" these things. the oldest "sees" and thinks he's very weak but loves him he's his father. i don't want to burden them too much,it's harder with my disability.

things feel pretty bad. i feel i'm trying hard to tell him things i "want/need" but it feels like he's deaf. i'm at a loss with it all.
we spent new's eve year me in the bedroom alone watching fireworks & him drinking downstairs then he slept on the couch. our eldest has just found his Dad's last night can's hidden in the outside bin. we had a row a while back after he'd been drinking,he hit me,it wasn't major but he cut my lip, knocked me over - it scared me,i left the house & stayed in a hotel until he clamed down. we going to Relate at that time, they came up with a "key word",hubby chose a word,if i'm scared i say it & he's meant to back off. it was also agreed that he's stick to a limit of 3 can's - he gets rough,swears etc after more. he's pushhing the drink up too "it's Christmas!".

i feel he just uses me for sex when he wants once or twice a day,sometimes he wants it 3 times. i've told him i'm not doing it 3 times a day anymore. he looked like i'd slapped him. at other times there'll be nothing for weeks,it feels like it's all about him & his "needs".

i cant see how i can get changes when he's not hearing me. i'm so tired. it feels like he just uses me for debt clearing and sex. it feels like we're dying. i'm terified of living alone with carer's coming in but this is killing me. i'm seeing so much with him now,i feel like i don't know who he is.

i've read this back,it sounds awful but it's truth. why am i in it???????? i'm not sure i know anymore.


----------



## Navy3

our youngest won't hear a word on the problems,he's v close to his Dad. i tried to talk to him about paying keep when he's home(we've got so much debt I can't cover our grown up sons staying without chipping in,the food budget won't stretch). 

hubby & i had a row because the last time this son was home he didn't pay keep. i get left to ask/push for it,so i end up feeling like "the bad guy". the youngest wouldn't listen,i end up upset so i wrote him a email telling him the figures of debt,explained i loved him but can't keep him. laid it out how much i expected him to pay &how often. he was very shocked but ok.

our oldest is in the forces &will go back to camp soon. there's little he can do if away. he "sees"
how my husband "encourages" our youngest to drink so that HE has a drinking buddy etc etc.

its difficult. the youngest has his Dad held high in regard,he can't bare to "see" these things. the oldest "sees" and thinks he's very weak but loves him he's his father. i don't want to burden them too much,it's harder with my disability.

things feel pretty bad. i feel i'm trying hard to tell him things i "want/need" but it feels like he's deaf. i'm at a loss with it all.
we spent new's eve year me in the bedroom alone watching fireworks & him drinking downstairs then he slept on the couch. our eldest has just found his Dad's last night can's hidden in the outside bin. we had a row a while back after he'd been drinking,he hit me,it wasn't major but he cut my lip, knocked me over - it scared me,i left the house & stayed in a hotel until he clamed down. we going to Relate at that time, they came up with a "key word",hubby chose a word,if i'm scared i say it & he's meant to back off. it was also agreed that he's stick to a limit of 3 can's - he gets rough,swears etc after more. he's pushhing the drink up too "it's Christmas!".

i feel he just uses me for sex when he wants once or twice a day,sometimes he wants it 3 times. i've told him i'm not doing it 3 times a day anymore. he looked like i'd slapped him. at other times there'll be nothing for weeks,it feels like it's all about him & his "needs".

i cant see how i can get changes when he's not hearing me. i'm so tired. it feels like he just uses me for debt clearing and sex. it feels like we're dying. i'm terified of living alone with carer's coming in but this is killing me. i'm seeing so much with him now,i feel like i don't know who he is.

i've read this back,it sounds awful but it's truth. why am i in it???????? i'm not sure i know anymore.


----------



## turnera

Navy, you will never be happy until you separate from him. Maybe you'll end up back together but for now, plan on being away from him. You NEED it to clear your head and see what's really going on - that you are being used and abused and you deserve better.

Are you in therapy?


----------



## Kelgirl

HEHASMYHEART...that was some VERY GOOD reading. I saw my husband in there a LOT. He is definitely about SELF. I don't think my husband should have gotten married.. I really don't. Although we have been married for 28 years. We get along fine more so as friends. We created debt together, therefore we feel a since of obligation to the other I guess.

KG


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## Kelgirl

Benevolence said:


> And now for the non-biblical version...
> 
> Your husband is a selfish jerk that will never change, you need to take control of all the money.. yours AND his.
> 
> Put him on allowance, if he doesn't agree to it tell him to take a hike!


*That's what I had to do, take care of the bills and put my husband on allowance. I think he hates it but had to be done. 

Our house almost went into foreclosure...he was suppose to be taking care of the mortgage. We are still not out of the clear.. still behind. I don't worry about it too much anymore. Had enough stress.. Whatever happens happen
*


----------



## InMySkin

wah2much said:


> I have talked this over with my husband and it has done no good so I'm open for advise.
> 
> My husband is horrible with money. He gets on these kicks where he NEEDS things (guns, bow and arrow, cars, fishing poles, whatever) and has to buy them.
> 
> We have tried to solve the issue by having a bank account for all our bills and then a separate account for both of us which has set amount of dollars per month in it for spending on whatever we desire. The thought was, if he HAD to have something he would save up the money in the account and then buy it without putting us in the poor house. However, it hasn't worked.
> 
> He doubled the amount we originally agreed upon and then blows through that money, then moves onto money from our company, then moves on to credit cards, then to the money which should be used for bills.
> 
> Whenever I confront him with the fact that we don't have money for groceries he always says he knows he is the problem, but then is at it again the next day. He has completely maxed out a credit card with purchases for himself.
> 
> I end up spending the money in my account for groceries, clothes for the kids and gas. It really makes me angry. When I bring up the issue he immediately goes on the attack and brings up anything and everything ELSE which is a problem in out marriage which he then twists to be completely my fault and pretty soon he is acting holy than thou and how dare I be so hateful to him to deny him a few dollars to have fun.
> 
> I have slowing been adding more and more money to my account to make sure there is enough money for the bills to be paid but, why? Shouldn't this be a partnership? This can't seriously be how a marriage is supposed to work. I'm tired of being the adult while he runs around acting like a teenager.
> 
> Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?



Woo chile, this would drive me insane and is the EXACT reason I'm not mixing money. To he*ll with that.

I remember reading something about 15 years ago, supposedly said by a pastor but who really knows with the internet. At any rate, the gist was that we as women have to stop cleaning up the messes that our men make. If he is supposed to be the head of household, the leader, then hold him accountable for his actions (or lack thereof). If he doesn't take care of something that it has been agreed upon that he is responsible and the result is that something get cuts off, repossessed, etc, let it happen. Let him scramble around to fix it. Let him feel the shame of letting his family down. 

I'm sure it's much easier to say than do, particularly if children are involved, but if your name isn't attached to his with certain creditors, let him deal with his own mess. 

I would also to get my name removed from any account that we have jointly.


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## Navy3

hi, it is easier said than done but i've realised that i "help" my husband every time this "hits" by getting us advice & usually lending £ from my parents to pay the debts - we then go through a period (this time worse than ever before) of real hardship & being on the breadline while "we" repay them. at the time it "hits" & i find out he falls to pieces,i take over in sorting out what to do.

Enabling! what a shock to realise my "helping" or as hubby says,"You saved me!" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we had NO £ for food this time - breath taking terror! my Dad sent me money through the postoffice. this time was so bad we really should have gone bankrupt (it has been a seroius option in the past too).

i am doing the banking with my hubby but i do find it can be a awful battle about £ choices. he's a clever man,v good with numbers,can work 3 out off the top of his head making it even harder to understand why he does it over & over. 

im looking at codependancy now & how i "help" set some of this up.
another month & we wouldn't have met the mortgage. 
i'm at a loss to work out what all this means for a relationship. i want to go to a CODA meeting but it terrifies me leaving him in alone incase he's in my stuff (ive hidden my own online banking info) or incase he's doing things online ie opening bank accounts & taking out overdrafts,credit cards/loans.

he has a lot of denial & because he's told so many lies i really dont trust him. 

i am clinging onto knowing that i can't control him/what he does,the only thing i can do is REACT/OR NOT in a different way. I have a bank account in my own name & i've told him i will have my £ paid in there if i have ANY problems or feel suspicious of him.
i decided to keep to a joint bank account so i can check the mortgage ect is paid, i can't pay it if he starts up but at least the shock of someone comming out to "discuss the re posession of the property" won't knock me off my feet like it has in the past!.

i am trying to put the odd few £'s away when i can so i dont feel terrified of no £ for food ever again.

looking back he's always had problems with £, he'd borrow off his sister & she charged him intrest, he had prblems with fruit machines & drank a lot.

i love him & hope he will work hard in therapy but it's up to him.


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## turnera

the best thing you can do is keep putting that odd pound away here and there until you have a decent stash put away for emergencies. That way you don't have to take out loans for them.

Also, look for a lot of websites that teach you how to do more with less - there are TONS of ways to save money. Make a game out of it.


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## Navy3

thanks for the support. sometimes i feel so alone with it all.

he's wanting to know how much i've got but i'm not telling! - it isn't much. 

he said he wants me to try & trust him,just a bit. it almost makes me want to laugh out loud. i don't know how he expects me to feel. 

i think i'd be crazy to trust him. talking i said,"it's not all about money". he replied,"No it's about power & control". i'm not sure if he's realised that or if the therapy assesment brought it up.

trust is totally broken,i didn't realise just how badly until he asked me to trust him. i can't. i feel if he can do all he has what else would he do?? he's used my disability against me,seeming kind/caring etc.


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## turnera

Don't let him guilt you. You know what you have to do.


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## Kelgirl

Navy3 said:


> thanks for the support. sometimes i feel so alone with it all.
> 
> he's wanting to know how much i've got but i'm not telling! - it isn't much.
> 
> he said he wants me to try & trust him,just a bit. it almost makes me want to laugh out loud. i don't know how he expects me to feel.
> 
> i think i'd be crazy to trust him. talking i said,"it's not all about money". he replied,"No it's about power & control". i'm not sure if he's realised that or if the therapy assesment brought it up.
> 
> trust is totally broken,i didn't realise just how badly until he asked me to trust him. i can't. i feel if he can do all he has what else would he do?? he's used my disability against me,seeming kind/caring etc.


*YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT ALONE. Reading your post reminds me of what I am going through. I have cleaned up my husbands financial mess more times than one. One time I had a few pennies saved and used it to get him out of one of his financial messes. I have a savings now and he does not and will not know anything about it. 

Well..our house is about to go into foreclosure and I cannot help him out of this one. We are so far behind in our mortgage..I have taken over the bills..had to.. however we are still behind. Partly due to the mortgage company long story but mostly due to my husband financial woes a few years ago.

I am trying to talk him into selling the house to stop foreclosure but he does not want to sale.. I said so you rather have a foreclosure. I hate the thought of it.. this means if we get divorced..I can never own a house again.. which is fine as long as I have my piece of mind and less stress..the house is a material thing.. you can put a price on happiness and a piece of mind. Not sure where him and I stand at this point.. we may go our separate ways.. The love has definitely faded. I care about him always will and I love him as a person. 

I have a health issue going on and the thought of me living alone sorta scares me but I know I can do it and I will be ok.. I have to believe that. I wish you and I could stay in touch through emails.

Kelgirl*


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## Kelgirl

oops in my previous post to Navy3.. I meant you CANNOT put a price on happiness and piece of mind.

Kelgirl


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## Navy3

hi, feeling very tired today. we had a row last night. it got heated, him swearing,calling me a ****ing ***ch - he was so angry he was spitting as he swore. scared the life out of me incase he lost it & hit me - i can't run with my disability so i held my drink out sloshing it,he took it off me, i got away from him to the bedroom but he was angry so i locked myself in.

i can win, he scares me when he's like that,i feel he'd batter me if he started but then he gets more angry with me for being frightened of him.

last night i did something different though. i had my phone & rang my friend. i asked her husband to ring & talk to my husband. he tried but my husband wouldn't pick up. he's upset with me for "telling". i've seen my friends for a cuppa (and had a cry too) this morning so feel a bit better now.
think i'm going to ring my DR & see if she can speed up hubbys therapy starting. i love him & it doesn't get like this often but he really frightened me.


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## turnera

You have GOT to look into services your government offers for you to have a way out of this, Navy. You know this will end badly - either you will cave and give up and give him your money, or he will kill you or worse. I refuse to believe there is not ONE way for you to get out of this.


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## Navy3

I spoke to the Dr today,told her how it's been so we've got a appointment to see her this wk. she said she thinks he needs medication - don't think he'll accept it - the therapist suggested it & he said no. she said he is always v calm when she see's him.

i am frightened of making things worse with him but scared that when he gets like that he could lose it and batter me,im v aware of my restrictions with my disabitlity,that scares &saddens me.

the Dr has suggested how she'll handle the appointment - just got to hope he'll go - he looked annoyed when i mentioned it but said he'd go.

i won't give him the tiny bit i've saved, i won't allow myself to risk being without £ for food again. i can't allow myself the terror of that. it scared me so much i am even putting spare change to one side. i've learnt a rhyme for my banking numbers (written them down wrong incase he looks now so it'll lock him out).

i think i'm finding things difficult because i'm "seeing" so much,the controlling with money is a big one,how he bullied me into loans etc, that i "rescue" by lending £ from family to sort the debt - the years of hardship & going without, all the broken promises that he'll never do it again. gaslighting - telling me i'd signed for loans when i hadn't - i thought i was losing it.

i'm scared the Dr wont believe me when we see her. 
he draws himself up - making himself taller (he's big anyway) pulls his shoulders back & pushes his chest out at me & stands v close. it's v intimidating. i told him last night i don't like it,it feels threatening & scares me - he totally shocked me , he said i do it to him, he's also now saying he thought i was going to hit him - it totally threw me!!! totally confused me - i walk with a walking aid indoors & out,how can i do that? i realised he's somehow trying to shift it onto me. it upset me & i'm scared the Dr won't believe me.

he is good helping with my mobility scooter,helping me etc etc but i get this other stuff going on too.


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## turnera

Navy, isn't there SOMEONE you can spend time with? You are exhibiting abuse victim symptoms, and the #1 way to end that is to get support - from friends or family. His gaslighting - they would be able to reassure you that you're not crazy.

Have you read this book yet? You really need to, if not: Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, by Bancroft.


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## turnera

Do you have the email address to this doctor? I recommend you copy this thread and email it to her a couple days BEFORE the appointment. That way she'll see how desperate you are.


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## Navy3

i feel in such a mess,sorry,close to tears again.
tried to talk to him tonight. i said he has taught me NOT to trust him & after everything he's done (getting us to the point of no cash for food & my father having to send me £) that i'd be a fool to trust him,trust has to be earned. if this was his 1st second chance maybe it'd be different but it isn't the 2nd or even the 3rd time. i don't know what he expects.
he sat with his eyes shut smirking saying nothing for ages until i asked if he was ok,he said he was thinking about what i'd said,still smirking,so i waited expecting a response. he got up & said there was "nothing i can say except you just don't trust me & we know what that means",then he's gone to bed (in our son's room again). it felt a nasty air,hard to explain in print here, but not very nice.

he's angry i won't just forget it&forgive it all.
i can't,i'm scared he'll do it again & i'm angry he makes these choices that effect me as well as him. 
he works for a mobile phone company,my mobile was in his name,it was due for renewal - i wanted it in my own name but he said i'd fail the credit check with all the debt so he renewed it for me in his name. i don't even feel like i've got my own phone. why am i only just "seeing" all these things? he's kind in one way but so controlling in others. 


i know i'm not crazy. i've been treated for depression in the past so he's played on that to cover his deception. it was the "Gaslighting" that finally made me open my eyes. i'm scared the DR won't believe me,he's kind/helpful in front of her. i can't talk to my Dad,they live 100's of miles away,i'm not close to my mum.

what do you mean by "abuse victim symptoms"?? i can hear your impatience - sorry. 
i will look at Amazon now & order that book. thankyou.


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## turnera

Navy, please stop asking him if he's ok. That's victimspeak and codependent, and what he expects of you.

Do you get out of the house at all? Start there. Say hi to your neighbors. Make small talk. Do it consistently so you get to the point that people start smiling and saying hi to you. It will help you a lot. Try to start up conversations after you've gotten to that point. You have GOT to get some outside support.

Emotional Abuse in Adult Relationships
Emotional abuse is the most prevalent form of abuse. It is also the most accepted in today’s world. Abuse is when someone misuses his or her authority or mistreats someone else. They show no regard or concern for the individual and they often use words to create an unstable relationship that leans in their own favor. An abuser usually likes to have total control of their victim. They are manipulators and their victims are ultimately put into a submissive or compliant role, compelling them to do according to their way of thinking. Emotional abuse in adult relationships can be verbal. Some examples include telling a partner they are worthless, and degrading by name-calling or frequent negative comments about looks or abilities. Emotional abuse can also be carried out by ignoring or withholding love or touch, making the victim feel isolated.

Emotional abuse leave victims with moderate to serious psychological issues. They may begin to think it is their fault and that they deserve the way they are being treated. Victims of abuse often lack confidence and may even be ashamed. Some feel that the abuse they suffer is a normal part of life, which is usually due to the fact that they grew up either seeing or being in a similar situation as a child. Along with taking place at home, emotional abuse can also become an issue in the workplace or with friends. The victim can ultimately become so accustomed to the emotional abuse that they begin to disregard personal worth and health. If not taken care of early enough, this can lead to issues that progress severely with time.

Aggressing – Aggressive forms of abuse include blaming, ordering about, threatening, accusing, criticizing, and name-calling. Aggressing may also be quite subtle, yet just as judgemental. An abuser may offer advice or or try to prove they can better analyze a situation. Using words or actions to show they are the deciding factor is a way for the abuser to maintain control. Aggressing is often used to invalidate the victim and their ideas. 

Denying – Denying the emotional needs of another is abuse, and is often used as a form of punishment. An abuser will often deny their victim by not listening or talking to them, acting as if they are not in the room. Thus, the abuser is able to emotionally withdraw from the situation and the victim. Another type of denial is when an abuser denies that they ever used harsh words or did anything that the victim accused them of. They will say they recollect no such happening. This may include the abuser overruling anything the victim says, thinks, or feels. The result is often the victim’s reality being shaken. They may no longer rely on their own judgment or want to trust from personal experience.

Minimizing – Minimizing occurs when the abuser doesn’t deny what he or she has done. Instead, they trivialize the incident and make it seem like the victim is blowing it out of proportion. They may say things like, “Stop exaggerating,” or “You are being way to sensitive.” Again, this makes the victim’s emotions seem exaggerated, faulty, or unimportant to anyone else, further scarring his or her psyche.

Understanding Emotional Abuse


----------



## turnera

Do you feel that you can't discuss with your partner what is bothering you?
Does your partner frequently criticize you, humiliate you, or undermine your self-esteem?
Does your partner ridicule you for expressing yourself?
Does your partner isolate you from friends, family or groups?
Does your partner limit your access to work, money or material resources? 
Has your partner ever stolen from you? Or run up debts for you to handle? 
Does your relationship swing back and forth between a lot of emotional distance and being very close? 
Have you ever felt obligated to have sex, just to avoid an argument about it?
Do you sometimes feel trapped in the relationship?
Has your partner ever thrown away your belongings, destroyed objects or threatened pets?
Are you afraid of your partner?

http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/


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## turnera

And I'm not impatient. At all. I know it takes time. I'm just worried for you.


----------



## Navy3

I found the book & will order it.

i'm seeing a friend in a few days,she's been good to talk to. she advised i try not to be drawn into a row. i'm concerned the outbursts of agression are happening more often.

i am trying to keep quiet so he hasn't got a excuse of a row to not keep the Dr's appointment. i am worried he'll pull the wool over her eyes.

he said this morning he feels he's a waster. he said there's a big spiral & he's all the way down at the bottom,that he wanted a big house in the country with 2 cars on the drive - the big house & cars are at the top & that he'll never have that now.

it's all about what HE wants & material things. no mention of me/our relationship in all this at all. i feel so hurt,i don't even figure in it unless i'm "helping" him to clear up debt. i feel sad & tired.

it's about what he wants,what he think he deserves. i'm glad he's sleeping in our sons room,i couldn't cope with him expecting sex on top of all this,it's too painful, i can't relax with him.

i've been in denial for yrs.


----------



## turnera

He is sensing a change in you, and so he's trying to shift all thought into how bad HE's got it, so that you don't have a right to complain. My DH did this ALL THE TIME - Me: "I don't like it when you raise your voice at me"; Him: "My life SUCKS! How would YOU feel if your boss chewed you out every day? If you had to pay for a whole family with a job you hated?" And then he'd expect me to shut up because, after all, HE had it worse than I did.

Don't let him get away with it. But don't engage in an argument, either.


----------



## Navy3

i sound so pathetic, i'm a nervous wreck - got a upset tummy,i know it's stress. i'm so scared the Dr won't believe what he can be like, she said he's always v calm when she see's him. she sees the kind side to him & how he does help me with things because of my disability. i also "see" how controlling he is.

he was talking about a teacher he had at school earlier- a woman, how he'd messed about in her class & she gave him thousands of lines as a punishment. the class helped him with these lines. he said how she "lost" him that day & how he always got D's off her. maybe it's a "rescue" thing with the class "helping" him?? 
i wonder if he's got something going on hating women with how he talks ( if we row he calls me a ***k*ng ***ch - he never used to do that).

he's got allsorts of stuff coming up in his head. yes i can see he is trying to shift things. at the moment it's going on it's so confusing!

i went to a CODA meeting yesterday. he wasn't v happy because i was a bit late. they're starting a 12 step meeting, i haven't told him yet - i intend on going if i'm physically able (i don't want any arguments giving him a excuse to not go to the Drs later).

he's been doing odd little things for me that normally i'd ask for over & over until i give up. not sure if he's trying or just manipulating (probably for sex)at the moment. at the same time he's seeming to be withholding when i ask him things like what time he'll be in from work,then he says "i thought i'd told you?". it sounds silly but it feels odd. if i text he's giving one word answers where possible.

i hope to God the Dr will believe me. i told her i'm frightened that if he started hitting me that he wouldn't be able to stop.
she has said she will try asking him some leading ?'s & see if he'll open up.


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## turnera

Did you email her the thread like I said?


----------



## turnera

Abusers will always change up their game once YOU start pulling back and he starts losing control. Not answering you about the time? It's to throw you off your game, keep you guessing, make you worry about him being upset. It's just what they do. Did you get that book?


----------



## LittleBird

wah2much said:


> I have talked this over with my husband and it has done no good so I'm open for advise.
> 
> My husband is horrible with money. He gets on these kicks where he NEEDS things (guns, bow and arrow, cars, fishing poles, whatever) and has to buy them.
> 
> We have tried to solve the issue by having a bank account for all our bills and then a separate account for both of us which has set amount of dollars per month in it for spending on whatever we desire. The thought was, if he HAD to have something he would save up the money in the account and then buy it without putting us in the poor house. However, it hasn't worked.
> 
> He doubled the amount we originally agreed upon and then blows through that money, then moves onto money from our company, then moves on to credit cards, then to the money which should be used for bills.
> 
> Whenever I confront him with the fact that we don't have money for groceries he always says he knows he is the problem, but then is at it again the next day. He has completely maxed out a credit card with purchases for himself.
> 
> I end up spending the money in my account for groceries, clothes for the kids and gas. It really makes me angry. When I bring up the issue he immediately goes on the attack and brings up anything and everything ELSE which is a problem in out marriage which he then twists to be completely my fault and pretty soon he is acting holy than thou and how dare I be so hateful to him to deny him a few dollars to have fun.
> 
> I have slowing been adding more and more money to my account to make sure there is enough money for the bills to be paid but, why? Shouldn't this be a partnership? This can't seriously be how a marriage is supposed to work. I'm tired of being the adult while he runs around acting like a teenager.
> 
> Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?


I pray to God you are not giving him ANYTHING he desires out of you, be it sex or whatever. If talking doesn't work, you MUST make it clear that if he continues to do this he will lose you and the kids. Sad to say but a lot of people, as long as they are getting what they think they/want need out of YOU feel no need to change their behavior. They know you don't like it but hell, they still get theirs, right? 

Because if he keeps this up he is going to SINK and take your kids with you.

How are they going to go to college if you blows their education fund on a stupid collectable item?

I come from a rich family. My uncle married a woman who spent EVERYTHING, lied to the IRS and got him thrown in jail. 

His credit is RUINED forever. 

Seriously, I think you need to get a secret account. DO NOT LET HIM KNOW ABOUT IT.

He can't be trusted with money.

I'm sorry you are going through this and good luck.


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## turnera

Navy, if you had visited a women's shelter or some other government agency that will help you no matter WHAT he does, you would feel safer talking to him, you would know your rights, and you wouldn't be hinging SO much on this doctor getting him to wake up (VERY unlikely anyway). Because then you'd have your OWN resources available. Do you have a debit card or credit card in your wallet at all times, in case he does start hitting you, so you can get out and get a cab?


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## Kelgirl

Navy3 said:


> I found the book & will order it.
> 
> i'm seeing a friend in a few days,she's been good to talk to. she advised i try not to be drawn into a row. i'm concerned the outbursts of agression are happening more often.
> 
> i am trying to keep quiet so he hasn't got a excuse of a row to not keep the Dr's appointment. i am worried he'll pull the wool over her eyes.
> 
> he said this morning he feels he's a waster. he said there's a big spiral & he's all the way down at the bottom,that he wanted a big house in the country with 2 cars on the drive - the big house & cars are at the top & that he'll never have that now.
> 
> it's all about what HE wants & material things. no mention of me/our relationship in all this at all. i feel so hurt,i don't even figure in it unless i'm "helping" him to clear up debt. i feel sad & tired.
> 
> it's about what he wants,what he think he deserves. i'm glad he's sleeping in our sons room,i couldn't cope with him expecting sex on top of all this,it's too painful, i can't relax with him.
> 
> i've been in denial for yrs.


Navy..as I read your post, I am in tears because I can relate.. I can definitely relate. I am in counseling for myself - my husband will not go, he says there is nothing wrong with him and nothing has changed in our relationship all these years... It old him a LOT has changed. I just keep quiet to keep the peace.

I use to be afraid of my husband as well...I still am because he does have a temper but not as much as I use to. I voice my opinion on some things more than I use to.

And like you, its all about my husband and what he wants. I know I have to make a decision as to what I am going to do as far as staying or leaving. Like you, I do have a health issue..I am fine for the most part but being on my own does scare me just a little but my counselor tells me, I will be fine.. which I know I will.. I will probably be so much more RELAXED and start to release all this built up tension I have had for several years.

I hope counseling helps you and your husband.. I hate to sound negative but I doubt it. Sounds like he needs counseling for himself as a person. Hopefully, he will agree to go alone. It took me seeing several counselors before finding the one I have now.. I LOVE HER... She steps on my toes a lot.. make me face things that I don't want to face...but helps me through the process as well.. SHE IS REALLY GOOD.

I pray your counselor is good.. it will make a world of difference, if not, it won't help much at all. I wish you and I could chat more other than on this site..we have so much in common regarding our marriages.

Kelgirl


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## Navy3

Dr's appointment went quite well, i felt heard & hubby said he did too.
she asked him ?s- he left things out, i filled in saying it wasn't quite like that & he admitted i was telling the truth. 
he refused medication - i knew he would.

she told him that we weren't like "other couples" because i am "compromised" with my disability & that he couldn't go on scaring me.. i broke down a bit but feel i did well. told her about him squaring up to me & how intimidating i find that etc. she talked to him about how tall he was & about using that to scare.

she's trying to speed up his therapy app. now & said she'd mention all this & my disability to help push it forward.

things got heated again today- talking, he got upset, stormed off banging doors etc. i left him to cool down on his own. when we talked he said he's always frightened i'll leave him! 
told him i can't take anymore debt.

i have a debit card, my credit rating is too shot to get a credit card& i don't really want a credit card - i think it'd set me up for enabling - he'd say you've got 1 so i want 1. i'm not setting myself up for him running up debt again. 
with the last lot of debt he used up a overdraft on a secret bank account saying,"they gave it to me". he blames someone else, i'm not "helping" set myself up.

he fleetingly said something about suicide,don't know where that 1 came from!! 

i spoke to someone aid Women's Aid, if i need it they would help me but i hope that he'll sort himself out with therapy - i hope he does, i love him.

i've got a basic bank account set up in my own name, told him any "funny stuff" & i'll move my £ to be paid in there. i might try to put some of my own £ in my own bank acc. so i've got access to a emergency fund for myself rather than a credit card - thanks for sparking that idea! just knowing i have a choice makes me feel a bit stronger.
yes i think he is sensing a change in me. i'm trying hard not to react in the same old ways- it's hard. we been on the edge of bankruptcy 3 times now but this time was so serious.i've had enough of it but i'm scared too. 

he's working tomorrow so my friend's(a married couple) are taking me to church,i'm looking forward to going.
thanks for the support. breaking the silence was a big step for me, i will tell the dr if i have more trouble with him.


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## turnera

Navy3 said:


> he fleetingly said something about suicide,don't know where that 1 came from!!


I should have warned you that he would do this. He is losing control of you and he knows it. Therefore, he searches for whatever weak points you have, things he knows you'll cave for - him trying to kill himself, he knows you're a sucker for that, so he USES IT.

The next time he brings it up - and he will - just look him in the eyes and say 'you've brought this up two times now. The next time it's mentioned, I will call 911 (or whatever you have where you live) and let THEM take care of you.'

Then walk away. They NEVER want to deal with other people, authorities - it's only YOU they feel safe intimidating and manipulating. So when you call his bluff, he will stop bluffing.


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## Navy3

Hi, you & others have given me a lot of support when i've felt v much alone with all this thankyou.

he also knows that suicide is a sensitive thing for me - my mother attempted that when i was little. you're right,the answer is to tell someone so i think i'd talk to our Dr as i've told her a lot now.

i have had a bad time with my disability,have felt v aware of how much help i need. he's been v supportive & helpful without being pushy,i've felt grateful for that. i just hope with the changes i'm trying to make & his therapy that we can get through it all but i feel better now i have a little bit of £ of my own incase he starts up again. i keep telling myself that i can't control him it's up to him now - it's hard but i'm really working at it. 

he's wanting £ off me for valentines day because he wants beer. i am determined i'm not enabing him with beer - row's can get physical ie, pushing,shaking,blocking me in etc if he's had a drink. 
so i've thought of a gift for him. **the pay off for me if he gets beer is that he's happy BUT i might get the aggression if we fall out.**

i feel much more aware of so many things,there's a lot to take in.


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## turnera

Put some thinking into other ways you can set up boundaries that you can enforce, that will help him start changing how he deals with you. For instance, if he's going to stay at a friend's house for a planned event, you can give him a bit of money for it, but never for when he's home with you.


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## Kelgirl

Navy3 said:


> Dr's appointment went quite well, i felt heard & hubby said he did too.
> she asked him ?s- he left things out, i filled in saying it wasn't quite like that & he admitted i was telling the truth.
> he refused medication - i knew he would.
> 
> she told him that we weren't like "other couples" because i am "compromised" with my disability & that he couldn't go on scaring me.. i broke down a bit but feel i did well. told her about him squaring up to me & how intimidating i find that etc. she talked to him about how tall he was & about using that to scare.
> 
> she's trying to speed up his therapy app. now & said she'd mention all this & my disability to help push it forward.
> 
> things got heated again today- talking, he got upset, stormed off banging doors etc. i left him to cool down on his own. when we talked he said he's always frightened i'll leave him!
> told him i can't take anymore debt.
> 
> i have a debit card, my credit rating is too shot to get a credit card& i don't really want a credit card - i think it'd set me up for enabling - he'd say you've got 1 so i want 1. i'm not setting myself up for him running up debt again.
> with the last lot of debt he used up a overdraft on a secret bank account saying,"they gave it to me". he blames someone else, i'm not "helping" set myself up.
> 
> he fleetingly said something about suicide,don't know where that 1 came from!!
> 
> i spoke to someone aid Women's Aid, if i need it they would help me but i hope that he'll sort himself out with therapy - i hope he does, i love him.
> 
> i've got a basic bank account set up in my own name, told him any "funny stuff" & i'll move my £ to be paid in there. i might try to put some of my own £ in my own bank acc. so i've got access to a emergency fund for myself rather than a credit card - thanks for sparking that idea! just knowing i have a choice makes me feel a bit stronger.
> yes i think he is sensing a change in me. i'm trying hard not to react in the same old ways- it's hard. we been on the edge of bankruptcy 3 times now but this time was so serious.i've had enough of it but i'm scared too.
> 
> he's working tomorrow so my friend's(a married couple) are taking me to church,i'm looking forward to going.
> thanks for the support. breaking the silence was a big step for me, i will tell the dr if i have more trouble with him.


*So glad you have a way out if you need it. I have changed in my marriage to I speak up more. His paychecks goes into my account and I use to try to be careful not to step on his toes because I did not want him to stop his checks from going into my account...but I got to thinking oh well...if he does then I will have no choice but to leave because he is not responsible enough to pay bills. Although we get along ok for the most part.. more like roommates, I am contemplating on leaving. My husband do not know about my savings account.. it would be spent by now... Maybe you should open another account and slowly move your money there.. 

Kelgirl*


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## Navy3

hi, there's such a lot going on& to think about. i need to tread carefully with boundaries - important i mean it & stick to it once i've said it as he can manipulate.

re valentines day,got him a present,he did a half marathon(trying to encourage him to keep fit plus read exercise is good for stress & your mood)so i've bought a frame,ordered a photo taken of him during the marathon. he got a medal too. our youngest has said he'd help me (i walk with a walking aid so can't carry stuff)to take it all to a picture framing shop to get it all mounted for him. hoping it'll give him some positive vibes & encourage him to keep running.

i sold a mobile phone & got a bit for it. he was wanting some £. he wants beer. so, instead i've saved some in my account & told him i'll pay for a "date night" -inexpensive pub meal out & 2(boundary!!!!) drinks. i told him he can choose where & gave him the budget i set. he seemed happy with that!

my savings aren't much - they wouldn't cover 2wks rent! but i know i have some cash for food now. i'd need adapted accomidation & a carer so leaving would need a lot of planning.

sorry to hear you feel like room mates kelgirl. 
i want more than room mates but some of that depends on my husband. i feel sad that we're in such a state.

i've tried having hubby's wages paid into my bank acc. yrs ago when he'd ran up debts. for me/us that doesn't work because once the debt is clear he wants total control again. he's good to me in many ways but he can be a crontolling bully with £. it's me that's changed. i realise(even though i am scared to death) that i cannot keep him straight with £,he's done allsorts with cards,loans(£15k loan i didn't know about) bank accounts etc. this is down to him now. if i try to control the banking on my own i'll have "macho" problems with him. i'm trying to get him working as a team with me - he can see it works. BUT i have set a boundary - if i suspect he's up to his old tricks again or have proof i will change my £ to go into my own bank acc. and he will have to sort the debts out,i will file for bankruptcy.

i can see it's going to take time. i expect him to be in therapy for at least 12mths. i believe he has problems with booze - hiding in it/problem drinker & lottery/gambling. the figures he racked up don't make sense.
i'm working on myself too.

thanks for the support.


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## turnera

Sounds like good, forward steps. Just stay safe.


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## Navy3

I'm trying! If i have more problems with him getting physical i will talk to the dr. now he realises i won't be keeping quiet about all these things itshould help - i've got support if nothing else.

he's hinting at the £ i got off the mobile- good job i put it away!

went to another CODA meeting - i'm enjoying it. thanks again x


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## Omegaa

Navy3 said:


> i realise(even though i am scared to death) that i cannot keep him straight with £,he's done allsorts with cards,loans(£15k loan i didn't know about) bank accounts etc. this is down to him now.
> 
> i can see it's going to take time. i expect him to be in therapy for at least 12mths. *i believe* he has problems with booze - hiding in it/problem drinker & lottery/gambling.* the figures he racked up** don't make sense.*
> .


Hi 

Have you done any "research" as to where he is spending all his money? 

Have you thought about the possibility of him using money for purchasing sex, for example? 

I'm suggesting this as a hypothetical instance based on his aggressive behaviour towards you. You need to get some hard evidence. It's all nice that he went along to GP/therapy etc but he could only be doing these to placate you. 

You need to protect yourself. 

Good luck!


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## turnera

I forget, this is HIS paycheck we're talking about, right? Or do you get disability? What's the situation?


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## Navy3

i'm not up on how to look into pc activity. no i am sure it's not sex related spending. he was drinking a lot,every day & spending on lottery etc. i'm sure he's been gambling more because the figures are big.

he works. i've got a neurological condition & get disability. but,he's run up so much debt i can't afford to use parts of my money to help me ie i can't afford a carer to come in to take pressure off him - he's made things harder not only for me but himself too.
sometimes it'd be nice to have a cleaner come in(he does most things just not as often as i would if i was able bodied).

i'd like a bigger mobility scooter - can't afford it. but biggest of all i need to be in a bungalow. social services assessed me - i'm considered too unsteady for a stair lift,i was so bad today i went up on my hands & knees,other days i just have "upstairs days" when i can't manage stairs. 
the debts mean we can't even try to get a mortgage for about 4yrs & then we've got a huge secured loan (he bullied me into that).

he's really been v selfish,seeing it all written down just makes me feel sad. i'm working on paying my parents back & saving my own £ up,i need £750 for bankruptcy fee's - because if he does it again that's what i'll do. the council would house me in adapted accomidation.

it's up to him now.


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## turnera

Does he know all that?


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## Navy3

Yes he does. All talked about v calmly. He said this morning he feels v guilty with the impact he now see's it has on me.


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## turnera

Good! Now, when you have to uphold a boundary, he knows WHY and he has no valid argument against it. You should feel emboldened to stand fast against the things he does to hurt you.


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## Navy3

i'm trying hard. i think it's going to take time,we've had these patterns for so long. i feel v much more aware of allsorts. i've ordered that book you suggested - thankyou.


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## Kelgirl

Navy... When I hear you talk about your disability sounds like we have more in common. I wish there was a way we could send each other pm (private message)

Sounds like you have a plan of action :smthumbup: If you have to file for bankruptcy don't feel bad about it. Thanks to my hubby and me allowing certain things to happen.. we filed twice. He filed 3x. I know his financial habits will never change..not unless he gets serious counseling which he is definitely against. I know he hates that he is not in control of his money.... he does not complain about it or anything but I can tell..he is not thrilled about it.

Things will work out for you...just hold tight. Its hard but keep pressing on. 

kelgirl


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## Navy3

i'm really struggling with him at the moment. he had a therapy session& seemed much more positive. it sounded like my hubby is sounding v negative about himself & the therapist said "we'll have none of that negative thought".

he keeps pushing if we have words that i want out. he shouts"just say it,say it,come on,you know you want too.we both know where this is going". i get this over & over& over again. it's waring me out. now he's saying i've said things that i KNOW i haven't but if i don't watch myself i end up questioning myself when i shouldn't. i feel like he's trying to make me look mad. he's even said he thought i was going to hit him - i can't understand how he could even say that,i've always got my wheels.

it's hard to explain but i feel like he's knocking me off balance in my head. i'm confused,i don't know what's what with him. 

we've got a word we use (the women we saw at Relate several yrs ago siad it was a way to cope after he'd lost it & hit me. idea is if i feel scared or need space i we can say this word & he will back off,leave the room etc because it's harder for me to move away with my disability). sometimes i don't use it because he gets angry with me for feeling scared! but i've used it several times over the last 2 days - he isn't sticking to the agreement,instead he blocks me in with no wheels so i can't get away,sometimes holding me by the arms . i understand he's frustrated.

i feel like he's pushing me over the edge. i asked him to move out while he does therapy but he says he can't 'cos he's got no £ & no where to go. it feels like he's used debt to tie me to him.
i'm trying to detach but he follows me around.


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## Omegaa

Navy3 said:


> i feel like he's pushing me over the edge. i asked him to move out while he does therapy but he says he can't 'cos he's got no £ & no where to go. it feels like he's used debt to tie me to him.
> i'm trying to detach but he follows me around.


Have you thought about contacting the police if he gets violent with you? You can leave if he won't. Can't you stay with your parents before you get "rehoused" by the Council? 

This is more like a disability and abuse on the disabled issue than mainly "financial". 

Unfortunately, abuse and discriminatory behavior on powerless elderly and disabled (let alone on women and sometimes on men) isn't too unusual. I see that you're trying to "fix" his faults and not succeeding very well...


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## turnera

Navy, PLEASE find a shelter and get someone to take you there. You will be dead soon if you don't leave. He can't handle his emotions so he, like a typical abuser, is pushing it ALL on you. He is VILIFYING you, which will give him justification to HURT YOU.

PLEASE call someone and get you out of there.


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## debster

I agree, Navy, time to take some action. His behaviour is abusive and that's not marriage.


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## Navy3

i can understand how people might get frustrated with someone like me/my problems. i don't feel it's easy to just throw the towel in & i do feel my disability makes that harder - i don't want strangers coming in to help me in the shower - it's so hard on the soul to have strangers in such personal situations.

i feel ashamed. 

hubby has been quite low. its hard trying to keep my feet on the ground,give him the truth of the situation when he talks but i don't want to push him over the edge either. it feels a fine line.

i'm still managing to save tiny bits if i have any £ over - my son has been home so he's put £ away for me(hubby doesn't know),but hubby keeps trying to catch me out with how much i have.

hubby has been much calmer,couple of outbursts where i managed to "detach", find it difficult with my disability as he'll follow me.

he's managed to save a few £ from his own money this mth!!! 
i've decided to go on the electrol role in the church we go to - he's not keen so i've left him to it - that's new for me!
my faith has given me strength.

he has therapy nxt wk,missed some as the man had leave booked. he tells me i come first,it doesn't feel like it to me. he's been so selfish. my friend keeps telling me to give the therapist a chance - i am.


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## turnera

Take your time, Navy. You'll work it out. Don't be afraid to ask people for help, though, ok?


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## Navy3

Hi, i'm realizing how controlling my hubby can be. i was on my phone to my friend while he was in a shop. my hands aren't good so i put phone on speaker. he came back v suddenly. i my panic to hide i'd been on the phone i dropped it,he was saying,"whats that noise?",i put the radio on to try & hide her voice saying,"is he back?". if it hadn't been so awful it'd been funny. i was a nervous wreck trying to find it to turn it off,got v upset & told him he's got me a nervous wreck about using a phone/talking to anyone.

i was deleting old messages from our son before this & he was accusing me of "having something going on". i often put it on silent so he's not irritated by it going off - i don't get lots of messages.

i feel worn out with him he's so up & down. he came home from therapy almost ****y with excuses for some £/debt things but he was excluding certain things to make something he'd done right with himself. i see him in denial. i hope the therapist can "see" properly. he blew up in temper when i challenged him,left the house, comes back & admits he was wrong.

i'm having a tough time with neurological pain. dr wants me to come off a drug that causes me a horrible withdrawal reaction & try something new. i know he'll be supportive during that but all this other stuff wares me out in spirit.


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## turnera

Navy, you know - we all know - you have to get out of this. What are you doing to get out of this?


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## Navy3

Haven't posted for a while. I understand how people feel the only ans. is to "get out". maybe i'm just stupid,hoping things will get better. i would have said the same things to others,it's so much harder living it.

here in the UK there's a system you can self refer yourself to called "open door",it's psych. services. so,plucking up courage i rang,had a appointment with a psych. nurse. 

i'm being refered for some form of therapy - not sure what yet. i told her about how my husband can be. it is so hard seeing it for what it is,abuse,makes my eyes fill up,there are many other times where he's loving/caring. 

the lady i spoke too has flagged it up to social services too as i'm considered "vulnerable" with my disability(what a panic that set off in me). 
husband doesn't know about this at the moment- he'll be upset/angry i've told them,defensive etc. i know that in itself speaks volumes. i am reading up - books suggested here - thankyou,they're helping me to "see" things like minimizing by hubby etc. the way i avoid responding to avoid confrontation,this saddens me.

i'm hoping therapy will help me. i need to get stronger in myself,part of that is admitting how i feel.

still putting bits of £ away,not got much but better than none.

had a "discussion" with hubby about church,told him i'm not giving it up because it's important to me. i'm also going to CODA,felt aware last meeting that hubby wasn't wanting me to go! trying to look after myself better. 

please don't respond harshly,i do understand the frustration.
i'm feeling v wobbly,scared,stressed,got the runs,not sleeping well. admitting i need to talk to someone is a HUGE step for me. thankyou for all the encouragement,the books have given me an insight,even if i don't know how to tackle things right now i am so,so, much more aware of tactics & their desired impact.


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## debster

So happy you are taking these steps, Navy. I will pray for you.


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## turnera

Navy, that's excellent progress! Awareness itself is the most important step and you're doing very well noticing how he manipulates. And standing up for yourself and your church! Remember that it often takes years after realizing the situation you're in, to be able to move on or change things.

Here's what I would suggest for your next step, in addition to the VERY important therapy (do NOT let him take that from you; you're better off in a hospital than to have that taken away) - find someone at your church you feel a kinship to, and start talking to them. No rush, just get to know her; become friends. Eventually, she will likely become a powerful ally for you, and you desperately need one.

Good job!


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## Navy3

hi,thankyou for replying. prayer always a comfort,thankyou

a friend from church knows a lot about how things are. he doesn't like me talking to her. a lady at CODA has experienced domestic abuse so feel she understands - i find it easier to talk to her as it's a women only group so he can't be there.

finding things difficult to grasp,so much to get my head round,i can see how he uses lies to confuse me sometimes. tried to talk to him about the squaring up to me but he comes out with alsorts "i was only standing over you!",he's 6 ft 4!! he'll say he didn't do something,then the same day admit he did.he lies & "minimizes" to make his actions ok with himself.

he's trying so hard to be nice at the moment. a few weeks ago after his therapy he kept saying,"i'm a liar!","i'm a liar!", over & over,he seemed shocked. i pray to God his therapist can see what's going on. i asked hubby to talk to the therapist about the abuse(didn't call it that - red rag to a bull),he was v vauge,said he did but i'm not sure i believe him. it wouldn't surprise me to hear he's making up lies about me,i feel so afraid no one will believe me.i've had depression in the past - he plays on that. he came home from a therapy session saying he's realised he " diss-asociates",i can see a possibility of that but not sure if he's mentally ill or playing me/the therapist. i taped him admitting about gaslighting me.

praying my appointment comes through soon,the lady i spoke to said she'd try & push it through because of my disability. hubby wasn't happy me going but now saying he thinks it's really good i'm going to see someone - he thinks its all debt based really!! i cringed! he changes so much my head's dizzy.

the books have been so helpful,i keep re looking at parts of them. it can be so confusing,knowing that is part of his aim helps.
thankyou


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## Faiora

wah2much said:


> I have talked this over with my husband and it has done no good so I'm open for advise.
> 
> My husband is horrible with money. He gets on these kicks where he NEEDS things (guns, bow and arrow, cars, fishing poles, whatever) and has to buy them.
> 
> We have tried to solve the issue by having a bank account for all our bills and then a separate account for both of us which has set amount of dollars per month in it for spending on whatever we desire. The thought was, if he HAD to have something he would save up the money in the account and then buy it without putting us in the poor house. However, it hasn't worked.
> 
> He doubled the amount we originally agreed upon and then blows through that money, then moves onto money from our company, then moves on to credit cards, then to the money which should be used for bills.
> 
> Whenever I confront him with the fact that we don't have money for groceries he always says he knows he is the problem, but then is at it again the next day. He has completely maxed out a credit card with purchases for himself.
> 
> I end up spending the money in my account for groceries, clothes for the kids and gas. It really makes me angry. When I bring up the issue he immediately goes on the attack and brings up anything and everything ELSE which is a problem in out marriage which he then twists to be completely my fault and pretty soon he is acting holy than thou and how dare I be so hateful to him to deny him a few dollars to have fun.
> 
> I have slowing been adding more and more money to my account to make sure there is enough money for the bills to be paid but, why? Shouldn't this be a partnership? This can't seriously be how a marriage is supposed to work. I'm tired of being the adult while he runs around acting like a teenager.
> 
> Do I keep trying to talk to him about it or do I walk away and let him drown in his own debt?


My SO and I are both bad with money (impulsive spenders), but we've improved our situation tremendously over the last couple years. 

We started having meetings. I don't just mean talks - I mean meetings. They were scheduled ahead of time, and had specific topics for discussion (agendas). We had a few different types of meetings: Coffee shop meetings and "paper parties" were the ones relevant to finances (we also had "laundry parties" to watch TV and do laundry, because we both find the task really annoying and it's more fun together).

A paper party was the first step - we pulled out all the stuff to organize, from all the boxes of papers in our house. We sorted it all, and shredded a LOT of old stuff. In the end, we had a file for each debt still owing (for paid debts we only kept the letter showing a zero balance from the creditor). Shredding things like old bank statements, pay stubs, etc (or alternately, storing them in an organized way, out of sight) really got rid of a lot of the bulk and made it easier to see our situation. Then, we wrote down all the debts we had, and all the assets we had, as well as our monthly income. This was the info we needed to bring along to our coffee shop meeting. We had to have quite a few paper parties, and we still have them from time to time as the incoming mail pile fills up (The paper party isn't just about finances - it's about any and all paper/mail that needs to be dealt with. But for the purposes of this thread, the finances are the bit that matters).

The Coffee Shop Meeting: Getting out of the house really cleared up any tension we had about talking out issues. We meet in a coffee shop to discuss anything and everything that could use improvement in our lives. The good thing is, it lets you address all issues from both people, and gets rid of the "bringing up bad stuff the other person did, to avoid the bad stuff I did." Both people add things to the list of topics to discuss. You can even add stuff to the agenda during the meeting, but it gets added to the end of the agenda (and does not disrupt the current topic). 

So, finances on the agenda mean you're only talking about finances, until you've got some resolution for that topic. For us, that meant looking at our situation, and deciding on a course of action together. It sounds like your husband can admit he has a problem, so the question becomes: "How can we keep you from spending too much money?"

He might have some answers like "I'll just try to spend less" but something you've already tried is not an acceptable answer. You need to try something different each time, until you find something that really works. it sounds like you've tried making separate spending accounts and it didn't work - so maybe the only solution is to remove his access to the other accounts. But, you need to discuss that together instead of just imposing something. Look at your situation together, and look at how long it will take to dig yourselves out. It should become clear if drastic measures are needed, and hopefully your husband can be honest with himself about his problems, and about what is really required to keep him from spending.


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## Lord Summerisle

Faiora - Its sounds like you've found a great solution that I think could work for a lot of people. After 10 years of marriage my wife decided it was best if I no longer had access to our money. I resisted at first and it took some getting used to and it was really a test of trust as I handed my cards over to her. Now 2 years later and I have to admit she was soooo right. Our marriage has really improved as she has taken control of the household. We have regular meetings about how the money should be spent, I still have input and can make requests and have an opinion but I concede and respect that her decisions are final on these matters. 

Since having taking over and become more or less "the one wearing the pants" we have be able to buy a wonderful house, she allowed me to get a fun antique Jeep project that I have been enjoying restoring. I no longer feel guilty about sneaking around buying things and she is just so much better than me at managing.

I realize this a little bit of gender role reversal and will likely not work in a lot of instances as most men think this makes me some kind sissy or whimp when I tell them I'll have to ask my wife first but I thought I would share our story.


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## Faiora

Lord Summerisle said:


> Faiora - Its sounds like you've found a great solution that I think could work for a lot of people. After 10 years of marriage my wife decided it was best if I no longer had access to our money. I resisted at first and it took some getting used to and it was really a test of trust as I handed my cards over to her. Now 2 years later and I have to admit she was soooo right. Our marriage has really improved as she has taken control of the household. We have regular meetings about how the money should be spent, I still have input and can make requests and have an opinion but I concede and respect that her decisions are final on these matters.
> 
> Since having taking over and become more or less "the one wearing the pants" we have be able to buy a wonderful house, she allowed me to get a fun antique Jeep project that I have been enjoying restoring. I no longer feel guilty about sneaking around buying things and she is just so much better than me at managing.
> 
> I realize this a little bit of gender role reversal and will likely not work in a lot of instances as most men think this makes me some kind sissy or whimp when I tell them I'll have to ask my wife first but I thought I would share our story.


That's great!

I don't think it need be seen as a gender reversal, because there are so MANY things that make one person "the one who wears the pants." 

For instance, in my house, I'd say I generally wear the pants, but sometimes I go overboard on something, or get my knickers in a knot, and my husband is the one who's firm and says "no, it's going to be this way" or even just "calm down." So, I get my way most of the time, but if something's important enough for him to step in, it's his call. 

Even just doing restoration on an old Jeep (awesome by the way, love Jeeps) makes you the pants-wearer in a way; it shows your manly ability to fix things and do mechanical stuff. 

Glad other couples are finding ways to sort their lives out, which work for them!


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## Lord Summerisle

That's great insight Faiora. I'm certainly not a door mat by any means I am able to give my two cents on decisions. My wife just decided it would be best if she hat "Veto" power when she felt she had the superior idea and her word is final. We can argue and discuss up until a point but once she has decided I respect her authority and do my best to support her decisions and make them work. This type of approach works best for us but it has taken awhile for me to change my mind set and requires a trusting relationship.

I don't feel like any less of a man admitting that my wife is charge.


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## ALotOnMyMind

EleGirl said:


> Your husband has a serious mental health issue. The reason he spends money is that he gets a brain chemistry high when he gets his new prize.
> 
> Put him on an allowance. Remove him from every account including business ones. This is not all that different from a gambling addtion.
> 
> And then take him to a psychiatrist.
> 
> It might end up that the only way to protect yourself financaily is to divorce him. At least that way he cannot put you in debt.


I second this post. He has an addiction problem that he needs to address asap. I agree completely with removing him from every account and putting him on an allowance. You also need to take steps to make sure he does not open accounts in your name that you don't know about. I'm not sure how to go about that since I've never had to worry about that before. 

This will probably cause him to become very defensive and angry and will cause even more strife and struggle in the marriage. If he doesn't agree to see a psychiatrist and/or marriage counselor, I'd think about divorce.


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## ALotOnMyMind

I just realized how late I was coming to the discussion but I wanted to respond to some posts.



turnera said:


> Navy, PLEASE find a shelter and get someone to take you there. You will be dead soon if you don't leave. He can't handle his emotions so he, like a typical abuser, is pushing it ALL on you. He is VILIFYING you, which will give him justification to HURT YOU.
> 
> PLEASE call someone and get you out of there.





debster said:


> I agree, Navy, time to take some action. His behaviour is abusive and that's not marriage.


To the OP: I agree with these two posts 100%; this is not marriage, this is abuse and it's detrimental to your life. Based on your most recent posts, I still think it's a dangerous and possibly even life-threatening situation and that you should be making plans to leave him. Your life will be better without him in it.



Navy3 said:


> i can understand how people might get frustrated with someone like me/my problems. i don't feel it's easy to just throw the towel in & i do feel my disability makes that harder - i don't want strangers coming in to help me in the shower - it's so hard on the soul to have strangers in such personal situations.


Your situation is a difficult one. But you must become stronger and take control of your life. Learning about what options you have to live independently of him--becoming independent and free instead of dependent and victimized--will be worth it for you. Start calling and asking questions about what your options are. You still have much research to do.



Navy3 said:


> i feel ashamed.


Why? There is nothing for you to be ashamed about except for the fact that you are married to a deeply manipulative, deceptive, abusive snake of a man.



Navy3 said:


> hubby has been quite low. its hard trying to keep my feet on the ground,give him the truth of the situation when he talks but i don't want to push him over the edge either. it feels a fine line.
> 
> i'm still managing to save tiny bits if i have any £ over - my son has been home so he's put £ away for me(hubby doesn't know),but hubby keeps trying to catch me out with how much i have.
> 
> hubby has been much calmer,couple of outbursts where i managed to "detach", find it difficult with my disability as he'll follow me.
> 
> he's managed to save a few £ from his own money this mth!!!
> i've decided to go on the electrol role in the church we go to - he's not keen so i've left him to it - that's new for me!
> my faith has given me strength.
> 
> he has therapy nxt wk,missed some as the man had leave booked. he tells me i come first,it doesn't feel like it to me. he's been so selfish. my friend keeps telling me to give the therapist a chance - i am.


I say the solution is to detach yourself from him emotionally, financially, psychologically and physically. Every way possible, separate. This will give you both the opportunity to heal and recover. I don't know that he ever will, but he is a HUGE burden to your life; you must begin to think about YOU exclusively and leave him to his devices. A marriage partner's duty in a marriage is to be a benefit, not a drag, and certainly not a complete detriment. He's dead weight.



Navy3 said:


> Haven't posted for a while. I understand how people feel the only ans. is to "get out". maybe i'm just stupid,hoping things will get better. i would have said the same things to others,it's so much harder living it.


Do not hold out hope and do not waste your life waiting for him to get better; he is an abusive, deceptive, manipulative man. It is better for you to leave him as soon as you can, and to never again be with a person who abuses you. You've got your own personal work to do as well, such as to figure out what attracts you to people with abusive personalities and to move beyond that trait, as it will lead you back into the same problem.



Navy3 said:


> here in the UK there's a system you can self refer yourself to called "open door",it's psych. services. so,plucking up courage i rang,had a appointment with a psych. nurse.
> 
> i'm being refered for some form of therapy - not sure what yet. i told her about how my husband can be. it is so hard seeing it for what it is,abuse,makes my eyes fill up,there are many other times where he's loving/caring.


Excellent. At some point you will be asking yourself, "Why did I spend a second more with this man?" You will see clearly that he is not good for your life even during the times that he IS nice and loving towards you. A partner who causes so much worry, pain, panic attacks is unacceptable. A partner in life should take away stresses and worries, not add to them.



Navy3 said:


> the lady i spoke too has flagged it up to social services too as i'm considered "vulnerable" with my disability(what a panic that set off in me).
> husband doesn't know about this at the moment- he'll be upset/angry i've told them,defensive etc. i know that in itself speaks volumes. i am reading up - books suggested here - thankyou,they're helping me to "see" things like minimizing by hubby etc. the way i avoid responding to avoid confrontation,this saddens me.
> 
> i'm hoping therapy will help me. i need to get stronger in myself,part of that is admitting how i feel.
> 
> still putting bits of £ away,not got much but better than none.
> 
> had a "discussion" with hubby about church,told him i'm not giving it up because it's important to me. i'm also going to CODA,felt aware last meeting that hubby wasn't wanting me to go! trying to look after myself better.
> 
> please don't respond harshly,i do understand the frustration.
> i'm feeling v wobbly,scared,stressed,got the runs,not sleeping well. admitting i need to talk to someone is a HUGE step for me. thankyou for all the encouragement,the books have given me an insight,even if i don't know how to tackle things right now i am so,so, much more aware of tactics & their desired impact.


I hope that you do not see my response as "harsh." I am a very blunt person and I just state what I am thinking. I'm not trying to be mean to you. Hopefully you can understand. I hope that you continue with your therapy and take control of your situation so that your life will continue to improve.


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## Navy3

wow,thankyou for taking time to reply. 

I started with a counsellor,doing some assertiveness work - I statements etc. this has been hard,i find it very stressful & depending on what i'm being assertive about i'm so on edge that he might get aggressive etc that i'm a wreck, get the runs. I know this isn't ok. she has refered us for some sort of couple counselling because I/me & her can't sort this out. hubby wasn't happy about that but hasn't refused so far.

he's been on that he's changed again this morning, saying I need to trust him. I could laugh at how crazy that sounds but I don't - at least not in front of him!!! 

I don't need to trust him, I need to trust myself! CODA is helping me, I do need to look at why I've put up/enabled this, i'm already thoughtful about it. i could beat myself up over how long I've enabled all this, i was so deep in denial. for the first time i'm saying "no more" & REALLY meaning it. I've realised I deserve better than all this fear, CODA is really re enforcing that.

my counsellor gave me "homework", to contact Women's Aid about a domestic abuse course run in my area called The Freedom Programme - I've done that! going to that next week . the course is almost over but they re start it after the school hols. so i'll start it again from the start then. 2 women from Women's Aid are coming out to see me this wk (hubby in work). 

The Freedom Project has a book that I got 2nd hand off Amazon - Living with the Dominator.

they said this is a dangerous time because he'll sense a change & told me no to tell him anything.

sometimes I feel guilty for talking to them, he isn't battering me but I feel the threat of it with the intimidation, it has me in such a state almost like fight or flight. 
i'm positive other women deal with much, much worse. but, I know he's using ambient abuse too - I find this scary. the lies where he totally denies intimidation/gaslighting, minimizing, changing the subject to confuse, he uses distance so that I feel so alone/un loved but then is so forceful if I try to talk to him & makes an effort. he's started pulling faces at me - it sounds so silly but it can be aggressive glaring, sticking his face in mine so he's out of focus to looking shocked or big forced smiles.

Women's aid have said if I wanted to leave it takes more planning when a disability is involved but if I needed I could go into a refuge. i'm not at that point yet. i'm afraid of how i'd manage physically & £ wise. I've been married for over 25 yrs. I think KNOWING my options might help me to feel less scared of all this & just having the knowledge will give me courage to be firmer. i'm not very strong in spirit but I am working on my self. I've told him i'll report him to the police if he hits me - I will.

you/ I can't make someone get help. I've said for yrs to my hubby he needed help, he would get all macho & say,"there's nothing wrong with me, i'm not seeing no shrink. no one's getting in my head". 

the point came when I came out of MY denial & broke the silence by going to my dr. she was so shocked, he's always seen as the very caring, attentive carer to my dr - he has been good to me in that way. 
how he is with £ was always a big secret, dealt with behind closed doors, part of how I enabled was in keeping quiet, shielding him from hitting his "bottom". my dr asked me, "is it because of your disability?". I went through a stage then of thinking it's my fault! but no, looking back he was doing this before I was engaged to him - being paid wkly, running out of £ mid wk, spending on beer, a bet & fruit machines. he'd borrow off his sister who'd charge him interest!!!!! these traits were there. it isn't my fault. but I have allowed this to go on by enabling, borrowing off my family, by keeping up the happy family appearance. I needed to reach MY bottom.

my silence/enabling has cost me dearly, counselling has helped me to see how swallowing all the terror, panic, anger etc has lead me into the deepest, darkest depressions. thanks to CODA I am feeling my feelings for the first time. it feels v scary but it's better than falling into that black hole where I wobble on the very edge of killing myself to escape the pain/ terrified feelings. I am low but i'm still present.

I feel the intimidation/physical abuse is a result of me speaking my truth to him - "I want it to stop. this is my last time. if it happens again you're on your own."
I realised I DO deserve better,my confidence is VERY shaky but I am a working progress, my friend at CODA says, "it's a process, baby steps". My inner feet are tiny little feet, but they're there. my friend keeps telling me to look after my self, i'm trying.

The books I've read ( re read) are helping. sorry so long.thankyou x


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## turnera

AMAZING update! Wow! I am SO proud of you, Navy! Progress every way you look. You didn't get here overnight, you won't get out of it overnight, so I am VERY hopeful for you. Just remember, if you hit a low point, there are people who love you, care about you, who would be hurt if you were gone. Stay strong for them (and us). 

*doing my happy dance!*


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## Navy3

thankyou, your message made my eyes fill, I've been v weepy & low, my CODA friend keeps telling me, "let it out!".

I've been reading about "self care". I've got enough £ for a few weeks food if I needed it now ( as long as I ate carefully - the terror of no money for food will stay with me, we buy £1/£2 worth of tinned/packet food to donate to our church food-bank for people in dire need.) so, I've just ordered myself a pretty top - it's my birthday next wk. 

i'm reading positive affirmations ( very tricky if you don't believe them but CODA's motto is to keep acting it until I believe it :scratchhead. I'm also reading The language of letting go by Melody Beattie, its a daily affirmations book. 

thankyou for being here. you guy's have blessed me., I don't feel able to talk to my family. hope you're not too tired with all your dancing, hug x


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## turnera

Do me a favor, though, ok? Promise me that you will talk to ONE member of your family, and tell him/her one thing you've been hiding. Just one. Could be tiny, could be huge, your choice. It's a hard habit to change into but, I found after many decades of hiding it all from my family that they would have been there for me...if I'd just let them in.

Just one thing. Slip it into a casual conversation.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Navy3:

Think of us as your siblings around the world! We really DO care! We're happy when you're happy, we're scared when you're scared! People here really DO want you to live a full happy life; you don't have to believe it yourself YET....we do...and we know you'll believe it, too, soon enough!

I'm just lurking on your thread as I'm sure others have, but if you need us, we'll be here! I have seen people PM others to rush to a thread and support a poster who was having a hard time...and people WILL come to support that poster, in droves!

Know that you're NOT alone! You have help right there at hand, and help here at TAM. Day or night, someone is here...someone who cares about YOU!

*the biggest HUGS*


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## Navy3

sorry,should have moved to new thread.


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## turnera

Navy, what's going on?


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## Navy3

sorry didn't like to post.

I am sorry to other people in the thread. 

things aren't so good. cant remember what ive posted he's got nasty a few times about helping me - challenged him,said if he doesn't want to be my carer ok but he cant have my £ & mobility car - he changed so quick it stunned me!

i've found him distant,not really bothering with me. feels v hurtful. he does/says things,denies, minimizes & eventually admits the things he's done/said, the energy to get the truth is exhausting.

I went to the dr with him tonight. i'm low. told dr things he's doing, she said we all lose our temper sometimes - felt like giving him an excuse& she suggested marriage counselling.

I told him how it all makes me feel,hurt,sad,scared. so now he's loving, kissing, me, says he loves me. he seems genuine yet part of me is very wary. says i'm the love of his life.
I am so tired, spiritually exhausted. feeling like I don't want to be here. having a disability makes it all seem harder. I don't know where I am or whats genuine. feel like I want to lie down & just sleep. sorry such a awfulpost.


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## turnera

You are in depression. You need a doctor to prescribe you antidepressants. And that doctor you saw, she either is an idiot, or she sees that you need physical help so she's trying to get you to just accept your lot.

Well, you don't have to! Keep up with your plan. Save your money. Seek out new housing, Work toward that goal. You'll get free of him soon enough.


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