# Looking for advice



## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Hello,

I am a married man of +20 years with two kids in college and I've been struggling with some thoughts that I never would have imagined a few years ago. I guess I'm hoping to find some commonality or advice from someone with similar issues and how they were resolved or addressed.

For the most part, our marriage has been relatively drama free with the normal life's challenges and occasional disagreements / fights. Nothing physical or lingering. We both work and own our home (well the bank does).

I care for my wife deeply. She is a kind, caring, loving mother. In fact I can't imagine a woman loving her children more or being more attentive to their well being. 

The kids have grown up well adjusted, did (and are doing) well in school, participated in extra-curricular activities and have never given us the slightest problems. We both have great relationships with them.

So writing that, as I would expect reading it, it almost seems foolish to think that there could be anything amiss when I should be grateful to have such good fortune. 

As I mentioned, I can't imagine a better mother than my children have. Unfortunately I struggle just as much to see her as a loving wife in the same manner, and am beginning to question if I love her in the same way I did when we were married.

I know that some of what we are experiencing is typical empty nest syndrome, when you suddenly find yourselves having to "reconnect" after 20 years of raising kids, but it just seems to be running much deeper than that to me. Any conversation between us is simply too hard to start, let alone nurture, the plans for the future (what little have been discussed) seem to be indifferent, the common interests we had when we were younger we've either outgrown or forgotten. What dialog does take place is usually "this needs to be done, or can you do that?" and 9 times out of 10, it's directed from her to me.

Our sex life has almost completely disappeared...maybe twice in the past 18 months. I had some silly notion that would be the first thing to be re-energized when the last kid went off to college, but no such luck. Instead of spending more time with each other when the kids left, we basically turned into roommates now that the needs of raising them no longer provided a common demand. 

She falls asleep in the chaise watching TV most nights and won't get up when I tell her I'm going to bed, so many mornings I wake up with no one next to me.

I pay the bills, do the taxes, make dinner with the exception of an occasional Sunday meal, clean up the dishes, do the grocery shopping 90% of the time (Are you stopping anywhere after work? We need...), all the lawn care, house maintenance, deal with emergencies, etc. I've come to the conclusion if I were on my own, the only regular activity I would need to add to my schedule would be laundry and that is only because she doesn't trust me not to damage her clothes.

Looking back, I know that the children always came first with her. The frustrating part is that I initiated conversations well in the past basically addressing the need for us to spend more time with each other without the kids, because I saw this coming. But for some reason outside of an occasional concert or such, the thought of a weekend away or anything without the kids (and cousins, etc.) was practically unthinkable. I don't know which is right. I know there are some who would say "damn right the kids should come first" and I've also read plenty of things validating what I perceive to be true. The kids are "temporary" but we're here for the long haul.

I've learned to accept this as just the way it was going to be and hopefully it will get better once the kids are out of college and completely on their own. But in the meantime, I'm not particularly happy and at times almost depressed. With one exception, which brings me to the here and now. 

There is a woman at work I have known for about three years who was married when she was hired. She has been divorced about a year. Prior to that, we had the same conversations any typical coworkers would about their weekend and such, but nothing beyond that. But since then, we have been kidding around with each other more and I've taken a lot more interest in her likes and dislikes etc. I guess to some degree you could consider it flirting, but I honestly think it's more on my mind than hers. She is definitely a moralistic woman, so I would be floored to think that she didn't respect the fact that I'm married, happily or not, and temper (let alone entertain) any inappropriate thoughts. We don't have any social contact outside of work.

But the point is, she is now constantly on my mind. I think about her on the weekends, falling asleep at night. I look forward to going to work just to see / talk to her, we have relatively engaging conversations, we make each other laugh and I find her very cerebral and intriguing. Sometimes I stumble over my words talking to her because she gets me flustered. On the flip side, I've gotten to the point that I'm really in no hurry to go home in the evening.

I really don't think she has any idea my feelings are what they are. She may assume my marriage is not the best, because I don't talk about it much outside what the kids are doing. To her, I'm probably just one of those people you get along with at work better than others. Everyone has them.

To me though, it's significant in that maybe my situation isn't inevitable or something I just have to accept. I'm still capable of conversing with and finding excitement in another woman. I have never been a philanderer or even comfortable when other women approached me. It hadn't happened often, but the couple times it did, I excused myself from the situation in a hurry. And while she is a very pretty woman, I really don't think the burning attraction is sexual, because I have known her for three years and would assume that would have been a factor long ago. 

About 6 months ago during a petty spat, my wife blurted out "well maybe we should separate!" I just blew it off as a heat of the moment rant and didn't even acknowledge it at the time. But oddly, it has stuck with me even though she might not remember saying it, or would just use the "I was angry" excuse if I brought it up.

I sit here today wondering if the difference in attitude I feel between relating to my coworker versus my wife is a true indication of my feelings or just some misplaced fantasy. I have about an hour commute one way to work each day which wears on me as well, but I took the job after a layoff and we didn't move in order to preserve some stability for the kids and so my wife didn't have to increase her commute. The thought of moving closer to work to reduce that daily stress is just the icing on the cake when the thought of separation / divorce enters my mind.

Then I snap back into reality and weigh the heartache and upheaval and expense that inevitably accompanies the whole process. Divorce has played a big part in the lives of her family members (mother/father, sister, brother), but in mine it is a rarity. So that weighs on me as well.

So thank you for letting me vent. I apologize for the long-winded oratory. In closing I ask: Am I being rash and foolish? Is this a normal part of the cycle of life that you just need to make the best of, am I nowhere near the justification for such a life changing decision, or is it OK to acknowledge that I'm not as happy as I could be at the risk of hurting others and starting over later in life simply because we've become "roommates"? Is that pure selfishness?

I appreciate your thought / comments.

SK


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

You're playing with fire. 

The CWI forum is filled with wayward spouses that weakly justify their betrayal. Fortunately you are at a very early stage of doing so and may get some excellent advice here. Here's mine: STOP with the fantasy and work on your reality!

You may be a 'nice guy' and need to work on that issue. (Seriously, the only thing you don't do is laundry) There are a couple of often cited books that may help, "Married Mans Sex Life Primer" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Both have pretty misleading titles, so don't immediately dismiss. Read and take away what can help you.

A quick read of your post makes it look like your wife is very comfortable and you are not a challenge. Step up your game, work on your marriage and STOP the crap at work.

~ Passio


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't become a cheater. Please. You can never undo it once you've done it. The trauma you will cause your wife if you cheat you cannot imagine.

There are many things you can try to reconnect. Marriage retreats, counseling, workbooks, internet sites, books to read, etc. 

If you're not willing to put in the work then get a divorce before you hook up with someone else.

And read this book.

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

You've become the doormat. 

Why don't you work on self improvement? Drop twenty pounds, change your hairstyle, pick up some new threads, and make the effort to continuously game your wife. She may not budge in the beginning, but you'll get to her eventually. 

Once you do, go all caveman on her and f**k her like a convict. 

Better you work on yourself and your wife. If you think you have it bad now, you don't know how bad it will get if you pursue that hussy in the office.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. About what I expected, but I think one thing was misunderstood to some degree. This wasn't an "I'm considering fooling around" admission. My point was that the situation at work more or less worries me, not because anything is ever going to happen, but because it was the first time since I've been married that it even crossed my mind. Just trying to figure out if that's a symptom or a sign. 

The doormat thing is a fine line. If you take the "grow a pair" attitude that I assume idyit was inferring, then you suddenly become the stereotypical lazy slob husband that so many women complain about. It's not the demands on my time that is the problem per se, it's the lack of importance she seems to put on our marriage for anything other than day to day BS. Or just once if I said let's go there sometime, she didn't follow it up with "and let's take the kids." I love my children, but having them along at times isn't conducive to a romantic vacation. And yes, I have had this conversation with her.


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

Are you still interested in your wife? Do you want to be old with her? Are either of you even concerned with romantic love returning? If only one partner feels a certain way it becomes unfair. Working on you really changes the game. Even though my marriage ended, she noticed me returning to the old exciting and positive me. Now she exclaims that it sucks that I'm fixed now that it's too late.

And yes, don't cheat. Ever. It's disrespectful to everyone involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife neglected you and continues to neglect you.

The kids should not come before the marriage itself. This is because good kids come from good marriages. OK, you sucked it up and suffered and did all the housework out of some misplaced sense of right and wrong, so your kids turned out ok.

Your wife does not love you, does not respect you and does not care about you. If you want to stay married to her you should offer her the choice between working with you to build a mutualy satisfying, loving, sexual and fun marriage or separation. She will argue that she does not know if that is possible. There you agree with her, admit that you don't have the answers, but are looking for her to decide if she wants to go an a journey with you or not. Give her about 24 hours to decide.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks Kolors. I guess it's not good when somebody asks you that first question and I hesitate in my mind to answer it. In the here and now I'm not sure. The second question hinges on the first, and the third is probably the easiest to answer. I'm very concerned about it, but I can't say unequivocally that she would ever be.

We had a very good sex life over the years until about 3 years ago, but even then she has never been comfortable in her skin, so to speak. This even though when we first met she was petite and even now 5' 2" 130-135 lbs. She takes very good care of herself and is concerned about her appearance. I'm 6' 1", about 205 and could stand to lose 10 lbs around the mid section, but for the most part, physically we're pretty average middle age folk.

Despite the fact that I always made it a point to compliment her and make her fill desirable, she has never been confident about her sexuality. It's just gotten worse with age which I understand to some degree is normal, but when the bar was low to begin, there's not a whole lot of room to move it. I always took the attitude that if she wasn't interested in sex, I wasn't going to force the issue, because there nothing arousing about that. A lot of the fun is sharing her enjoyment.

One evening not long after the kids were gone to college, we were alone and I just walked up to her to give her an impromptu hug and gave her tush a squeeze and she squirmed out basically to get me to stop. To this day I'm not really sure what that was about, but I haven't forgotten it. The bottom line is that I'm not really sure if she is concerned about it or not. I've gotten to the point now that I almost can't imagine sex with her anymore because it would just seemed "forced". How do you get around that? 

And yes, I share your view on cheating. That's why I chimed in here yesterday. Because it just makes me wonder if I'm basically just living a single man's life with the restrictions of marriage, is that in itself reason to move on? I wonder what she would have done if I called her on the separation thing rather than blown it off?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You're so afraid of telling her what you want from your marriage. Therefore the marriage is totally constructed by your wife. She filled in the vaccum.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Hicks,

I really don't think it's that so much. She is not necessarily the *****y domineering type. In fact the opposite. She suffers from anxiety in a bad way and isn't comfortable taking charge of things. So things like buying cars, the house, insurance, bills, etc. fell to me since day one.

I would get home from work first, so when the kids were little I would start dinner just to get it out of the way and feed them. Now when the kids are at college, I make something to eat when I'm hungry and don't when I'm not, and if I do, I ask her if she wants something. If not, oh well. But now the kids are home for the summer, it's back to "the routine".

I guess it comes down to is it really any better to start pushing back and dealing with probable / inevitable arguments, which are no more conducive to righting the ship than things are now? It goes back to my original post. There was really never anytime to concern ourselves with this, or it wasn't as apparent when I was running my son around to practice / games and dealing with school schedules etc. You did what needed to be done to work the schedule.

But behind that was always the thought that we could get back to "being us" once we got through it. Now we're getting there and I'm not so sure it works that way, at least for us.

Thanks for your input.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

Steven K. said:


> I guess it comes down to is it really any better to start pushing back and dealing with probable / inevitable arguments, which are no more conducive to righting the ship than things are now?


The alternative being to just carry on doing nothing about it and being unhappy that things are bad and aren't changing. (that's how I interpreted what you said, at least)

It would be great if things just got better without any effort or pain, wouldn't it?


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

testpilot21 said:


> The alternative being to just carry on doing nothing about it and being unhappy that things are bad and aren't changing. (that's how I interpreted what you said, at least)
> 
> It would be great if things just got better without any effort or pain, wouldn't it?


I agree 100%. The point is if the end result is the same, then it's a lot of unnecessary BS. But I understand you do not know if you don't try. Of course the 3rd option is separation / divorce, and there's plenty of effort and pain there.

After all this dialog, it really comes down to what I was wondering in the first place. Does everyone discover such a large void in their marriage when the empty nest strikes, and you just need to work through it, or did raising kids mask the fact that we grew apart and we didn't realize it until now? The whole thing with the woman at work just shines a light on it, nothing more, because there was a time when entertaining such thoughts made me uncomfortable for the very reason that I was married. For the first time in 25 years, I've found myself with a case of the "if onlys". (And for the record, it's not an older / younger thing. She's actually a year older than my wife).

I've come to the conclusion to see if we work things differently while the kids are finishing up college over the next couple years. At that point things should be much clearer. Thanks.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the advice Lila...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Steven Just make it very clear to her

You want to share in all of the responsibilities and benefits of marriage

You only have one life and you will not waste a moment longer being in a one way unfulfilled relationship.

If she is not willing to try or she misjudges the seriousness of the matter You will have to tell her to prepare herself for a different conversation

And do what you say........ no empty threats

55


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

55,

Thank you very much. That is very useful, concise advice. That was the kind of suggestion I was looking for.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

Steven K. said:


> I agree 100%. The point is if the end result is the same, then it's a lot of *unnecessary* BS. But I understand you do not know if you don't try. Of course the 3rd option is separation / divorce, and there's* plenty of effort and pain there*.


You seem to be reluctant to make any effort. Why? This is already an unhappy situation, you're having thoughts about another woman, and you went through the trouble of posting here. Don't leave it at that, you need to continue to make an effort and this time, by talking to your wife.



> I've come to the conclusion to see if we work things differently while the kids are finishing up college over the next couple years. At that point things should be much clearer.


A couple of years? You mean, do sweet FA because for whatever reasons you're upset enough to complain but not enough to actually do something about it? I put off dealing with the problems in my relationship for too long, and when I finally confronted my partner she admitted she'd known things weren't right and had similarly put off facing it. Who knows how long we'd have coasted along like that? 

Do it now. Being a martyr to your own apathy won't prove anything to anyone, not least of all your future self.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

My only point to the couple of years was to be sure the kids got through college without additional BS to worry about, keep their minds where they need to be and to keep the finances the way they are for now in the process. I see what you're saying, but don't confuse keeping my responsibilities to my kids with a reluctance to confront the problem. That doesn't mean I'm going to wait that long to practice advice such as 55's.

It's not about being a martyr or proving anything. Who knows, maybe we're only one good blow up from expediting things anyway.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

Okay. Just don't let it become a case of the kids finishing college, starting their new careers, don't want to stress them during that... kids getting married, don't want to stress them during that...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Steven K. said:


> My only point to the couple of years was to be sure the kids got through college without additional BS to worry about, keep their minds where they need to be and to keep the finances the way they are for now in the process. I see what you're saying, but don't confuse keeping my responsibilities to my kids with a reluctance to confront the problem. That doesn't mean I'm going to wait that long to practice advice such as 55's.
> 
> It's not about being a martyr or proving anything. Who knows, maybe we're only one good blow up from expediting things anyway.


If things are that bad, she could be just as close as you are to having an affair or blowing things up. Avoiding issues with the hope of keeping things intact for years seems like a fools game, and a waste of the limited time we all have on this earth. My $0.02...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Testpilot, I hear you and agree. One other issue that the wife and I have is that I constantly have to point out that our kids aren't 10 and 12 anymore and we're not doing them any favors by not placing more responsibility on them. I have to remind her that they're adults now. Thankfully, they understand and expect it better than she does. But that's another story for another day.

So you don't have to worry about me in that respect. I just want to make sure they finished what they started in this case.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> If things are that bad, she could be just as close as you are to having an affair or blowing things up. Avoiding issues with the hope of keeping things intact for years seems like a fools game, and a waste of the limited time we all have on this earth. My $0.02...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


PBear, that would just make things easier if that were to happen, but your point is well taken.


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## krika (Feb 25, 2014)

you should seriously sit down with her and ask her how she sees your marriage, if she is happy, if she is satisfied with how things are now. No matter how she responds, tell her the truth about your feelings and view on everything. 
You can give her the option to try to work on it, plan a romantic weekend at a beautifull place, with pool, spa, dinning out and save no expense. And with planning, I mean buy the tickets, hotels and all as you speak about it and have agreed upon it, set the date to the earliest weekend possible. No waiting, dont considere others, just think of the 2 of you. 
If she is willing, then perfect, if not you could suggest to have an open relathionship. I know couples who have that and not all partners are acting on it, but to have the option can be enough to be happier. 
Well, you live once, dont see how this talk will do anything but enlighten you both.

GL


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Good idea except for the last part. She would flip out. Which is ironic isn't it? Welcome to my world. Thanks for the reply.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Steven K. said:


> My only point to the couple of years was to be sure the kids got through college without additional BS to worry about, keep their minds where they need to be and to keep the finances the way they are for now in the process. I see what you're saying, but don't confuse keeping my responsibilities to my kids with a reluctance to confront the problem. That doesn't mean I'm going to wait that long to practice advice such as 55's.
> 
> It's not about being a martyr or proving anything. Who knows, maybe we're o nly one good blow up from expediting things anyway.


Sometimes one good blow up can produce unexpected positive results. As long as you stick to the facts speak respectfully and most importantly honestly.

You don't need to scream to have a good blow up

55


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Steven K. said:


> PBear, that would just make things easier if that were to happen, but your point is well taken.


So in other words, you want out, but don't have the cajones to be the bad guy and pull the trigger? Sorry to be harsh, but just paraphrasing to understand. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> So in other words, you want out, but don't have the cajones to be the bad guy and pull the trigger? Sorry to be harsh, but just paraphrasing to understand.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If being condescending is the only way you can understand, then fine, you're welcome to look at it that way. I don't equate the decision to flip off the guy who cut you off in traffic and leaving your wife with quite the same nonchalance, but if it works for you... 

My goal (again) has been to consider how common my situation is and the ways others have addressed it. Obviously if I were to learn that she was getting some on the side, to me it would make this discussion a moot point.


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## whataquandry (Jun 2, 2014)

Steven, I can't give you advice but only identify with your story. I'm in a similar position right now, kids are younger but I've crossed the line with entering into an EA and it's a slippery slope. If you think your head is spinning now, it will only multiply. I'll be following this string so I can pick up additional advice.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Steven K. said:


> If being condescending is the only way you can understand, then fine, you're welcome to look at it that way. I don't equate the decision to flip off the guy who cut you off in traffic and leaving your wife with quite the same nonchalance, but if it works for you...
> 
> My goal (again) has been to consider how common my situation is and the ways others have addressed it. Obviously if I were to learn that she was getting some on the side, to me it would make this discussion a moot point.


Steven I am guessing Nice Guy here

Are you hip to that concept?

Are you conflict avoidant and prone to circular arguements?

Do you fight "fair?"

55


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Steve. Not trying to question your manhood or telling you to grow a pair. My point is to take some action for yourself. This does two things: eliminate one of the potential problems in your marriage and prepare you for an outcome that does not include your wife.

Thanks for the clarification on the work situation. I had something similar happen while dining out some time ago. At an upscale, hipster-ish eatery the young, very cute waitress was obviously flirting with me. It was an OH CHIT moment that I questioned what I was settling for in marriage. If a virtual stranger could find attraction in me why am I struggling for companionship, kindness, support, affection, sex etc from my wife?

Reality is while I may be physically attractive enough to garner her attention, that has nothing to do with the state of my marriage. I decided I wanted to fix my own chit, take on the elephant(s) in the room/marriage, get healthier physically/mentally/spiritually... Generally work on me and challenge the marriage to see if it will survive. If it's not fixable I'll be in a much better place to take on the challenge and thrive on the other side.

I'll dig up a copy of a post from TAM that has been helpful to me. If anyone has the OP of this and can link, have at it.

~ Passio


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Here you go

_"180 – What I’ve Learned

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time."_

Again, my apologies to the OP of this post. If someone has a link please provide it.

~ Passio


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> Steven I am guessing Nice Guy here
> 
> Are you hip to that concept?
> 
> ...


55,

I read about it some after seeing it thrown around here quite a bit.

I don't know if I could say I can wrap it up all nice and tidy with a bow and say that's me to a tee, but I would think most rational people would prefer to minimize the stress in their lives given the chance.

I have a long fuse when it comes to conflict, but when I do go off, my temper is pretty bad. (Not physical harm bad, but I've been known to invent words with colorful adjectives, raise the blood pressure a few notches and/or punch a wall.) What I tend to do though after blowing off the initial steam is to remove myself from the situation to keep it from escalating. I've left for the day to go to the movies by myself or whatever. You may call it avoidance, I call it damage control.


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## Steven K. (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks Idyit,

That situation is a bit different to my mine, but I understand the key points being made. I can identify with a few of those items, some that I already handle in the same fashion, some that may be worth trying.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Steven K. said:


> 55,
> 
> I read about it some after seeing it thrown around here quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Very much like myself
But when things settle down...Do you reconcile/remedy the conflict ?
or do you continue to do "damage control"

55


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Idyit said:


> You're playing with fire.


:iagree:

Do not do it. Talk to your wife about how you feel.


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## krika (Feb 25, 2014)

"you could suggest to have an open relathionship. I know couples who have that and not all partners are acting on it, but to have the option can be enough to be happier. "

continuanse 

after you suggest open marriage and if she refuses, then tell her you are left with no other choise than to do a trial separation, where you live apart. cause you cant live like this anymore. you need a wife, not a room mate. 
either she needs to pull herself together or you need to have a time out. and during the trial separation, it will give both of you time to see if thats whats right for you, at the same time you are free to meet other people.
its not okay to be stuck when the other wont budg, when you are clearly not on the same path in life. you expect more, when it sounds like she is either fullfilled or has given up on even trying.

post an update when you have spoken with her 
gl


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