# OW still in the picture



## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Recently my husband of 10 years was caught in an EA with the manager of our business. For financial, legal, and other reasons we can not terminate her employment, there honestly is nobody else that can run our business. We are seeing a counsellor to deal with the issues leading up to him cheating but we can't deal with the elephant in the room because she is still in our life. Our counsellor has now got my husband to understand he needs to set clear boundaries with the OW and remain employee/boss only but not shocking I am always wondering if he has crossed those boundaries and of course when I need to talk to her about business it digs up the hurt and betrayal all over again. She has no idea I know about the affair and she is also married with a young child. My husband is trying to sell the business to get her out of our life but that could take a year! In other people's opinion will we even be able to start any type of recovery while she is still in our life? I don't want to live in a place of hurt and limbo for over a year.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

No offense, but it's hard to believe that she is so totally indespensible. Were it be, she'd be g.o.n.e. and I'd carry on the business the best we could.

Aside from that, if you are bound to keep her, then these issues will have to remain and there are simply no easy answers.

Were it me, I'd place a VAR in the office where neither know about it and then monitor it the best I could.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I think the recovery will be very difficult in that situation; in large part due to the "possibility" of the A continuing. Kind of like finding a poisonous snake in your home that escaped underneath the house.

I would do everything possible to limit their contact for now and have a good plan for eliminating it ASAP.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Think about what would happen if she suddenly died. People do die unexpectedly. Life would go on. 

No, you can't R with her around.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

I agree everybody is replaceable but the replacement would need to be me and I have my own career that I do not want to leave, especially in the limbo state I am in it is important that I feel at least I can support myself and my children. I will just need husband to understand we can not move forward until she is gone and if he want to risk losing me over the next year while I get sick of limbo land that is on him. He could take action and start training other people correct! I was thinking of the VAR though. Where do you find more information on those?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What have you done to find a replacement?


And why haven't you told her that you know?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Sounds like she's thriving on the power she has over you and your business...Send the solid evidence to her husband some way and allow him to remove her from your business. & or: Why aren't you suing her for emotional distress, hostile work environment etc.? What kind of attorney/s do you have? Spend the money or lose it...


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

I work full-time on my own job during the day and my husband runs the business daily, so really it is up to him to find and train the replacement. I work nights and weekends on all the paperwork and accounting for the business. I want to tell her but my husband says she will quit instantly and then we are again screwed since nobody else has been trained. I want to sell the business which means I can't sabotage it cause nobody will buy it. My family has invested a lot of money in our business and I want them to be paid off.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> Expose her on CV without it ever being traced back to you and allow her husband to remove her from your business. End of story.


Especially mention where she works. Every time someone searches for the business name that Cheaterville post will show up. Problem solved one way or another.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So if she found another job and quit, your business would go belly up? Relying that heavily on anyone who's not an owner or at least partner in the company is a bad idea, no matter what. 

I'm with the others... It's going to be very difficult to work through things with the situation remaining as-is. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> I work full-time on my own job during the day and my husband runs the business daily, so really it is up to him to find and train the replacement. I work nights and weekends on all the paperwork and accounting for the business. I want to tell her but my husband says she will quit instantly and then we are again screwed since nobody else has been trained. I want to sell the business which means I can't sabotage it cause nobody will buy it. My family has invested a lot of money in our business and I want them to be paid off.


What do you want, the business/profits from the business or your marriage. You cannot have both.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hmmm, one of the great questions of life. Money or love/happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

PBear said:


> So if she found another job and quit, your business would go belly up? Relying that heavily on anyone who's not an owner or at least partner in the company is a bad idea, no matter what.
> 
> I'm with the others... It's going to be very difficult to work through things with the situation remaining as-is.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I find that hard to believe. Maybe the husband is exaggerating her importance so as not to lose his mistress.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Calibre1212 said:


> Sounds like she's thriving on the power she has over your business...Send the solid evidence to her husband some way and allow him to remove her from your business.


How would that work? She'd be more likely to sue him for constructive dismissal or sexually harassment, depending on how far things go. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Hmmm, one of the great questions of life. Money or love/happiness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've always chosen happiness. Money is transitory.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

bfree said:


> I've always chosen happiness. Money is transitory.


:iagree: Money always seems to come along when desperately needed, but happiness is not as quick to surface.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Ok...Then update your Policies/Procedures Manual and Employee Handbook by writing her out of the position. Change the name and role of the position too, so she is no longer qualified. Or write her position out of the Table of Organization...Like change it from Program Operations Manager to COO or add her role to the COO's...Everybody is downsizing.

Take back your power, YOU are the OWNER...This is a free economy. Make sure you are watching her like a dog based on your state employment laws and your Manuals because everybody slips up at some point.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Placing a VAR in the office is good idea.

You could even install an little spy cam.

Didn't you have a photo with jelly beans before? What happened to it?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Why can't she be replaced ?

We have people from all walks of life here.. Cops, Computer forensics examiners, Firemen, Bankers, Bakers, House wives, Stay at home dads, ETC... You name it.. I am sure someone might be able to point you with a decent solution..

BTW I agree, no way in the world this is going to work out unless she is gone..


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Calibre1212 said:


> Ok...Then update your Policies/Procedures Manual and Employee Handbook by writing her out of the position. Change the name and role of the position too, so she is no longer qualified. Or write her position out of the Table of Organization...Like change it from Program Operations Manager to COO or add her role to the COO's...Everybody is downsizing.


There's only one employee in this business (besides the owners) because apparently if they fire her then the entire thing would collapse. So I'm doubting they have policies/procedures, org systems or an employee handbook. Sounds like a disorganized mom and pop shop at best.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

So are you afraid the BUSINESS won't survive if she is let go? Because the MARRIAGE won't survive if she remains.

Replace her. Do you own a nuclear reactor? No? Then she can be replaced. Train her replacement. Yes it will be a pain to put all the time and effort into training a new manager. So be it. Cost of hubby's EA.

curious - what was the EA? Texts, emails? What exactly did you find? One way or two way street? And how can you stand working with her? I would let her know that you know. Stop making it comfortable for this woman.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Please talk to a lawyer about your options before attempting any creative downsizing or spying... Ignorance of the law is rarely a defense. Not saying you'd do any of these things, but...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Placing a VAR in the office is good idea.
> 
> You could even install an little spy cam.
> 
> Didn't you have a photo with jelly beans before? What happened to it?


Different jelly beans. Hopefully nicer than the last one.

I kid! I kid!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Placing a VAR in the office is good idea.
> 
> You could even install an little spy cam.
> 
> Didn't you have a photo with jelly beans before? What happened to it?


Perhaps you're thinking of "Jellybeans" (who's divorced)?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Then she can be replaced. Train her replacement. Yes it will be a pain to put all the time and effort into training a new manager. So be it. Cost of hubby's EA.


Better still tell her the business is booming and you need to hire more people to grow the business so have HER train the replacement. Then when the replacement is up to speed fire the POSOW. Then OP you can stay at your job while you execute your plan to get rid of her.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Better still tell her the business is booming and you need to hire more people to grow the business so have HER train the replacement. Then when the replacement is up to speed fire the POSOW.


Good plan, but I think. PBear is right - talk to the lawyer before making any personnel decisions.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Honestly if it was not my Mom's money and she risks losing her house I would have already gone in there and the situation would be dealt with but I do agree in a way we are choosing this business over our marriage and that says a lot. Doesn't help that my husband started a second business with her as a business partner and it is an incorporated business. This is going to be a legal nightmare!!! Thanks for your insight everybody I see there is a choice to be made, business or marriage and it is time we made it!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> I want to tell her but my husband says she will quit instantly and then we are again screwed since nobody else has been trained.


Well, there you are then. Bring in a new person, have OW train the other person so you have 'backup' and then fire her.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

bfree said:


> Especially mention where she works. Every time someone searches for the business name that Cheaterville post will show up. Problem solved one way or another.


Owww! Thanks, I needed that!  (Although the publicity could boost profits, you know?)


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

So let me get this straight...He has nothing to lose...She has nothing to lose...Only you & your Mom have something to lose? So your husband and his mistress have you and your Mom by the ballz...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

he started another business with her? 

dont kid yourself. your not in any sort of real R. 

he is still in the EA.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

PBear said:


> Please talk to a lawyer about your options before attempting any creative downsizing or spying... Ignorance of the law is rarely a defense. Not saying you'd do any of these things, but...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The apropro is: "Please talk to a lawyer...Period".


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Calibre1212 said:


> The apropro is: "Please talk to a lawyer...Period".


That is true. The OP should figure out what she needs done, and then get advice on how to accomplish it. And her husband should be bending over backwards to make it happen. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> So let me get this straight...He has nothing to lose...She has nothing to lose...Only you & your Mom have something to lose? So your husband and his mistress has you and your Mom by the ballz...


Pretty much but I would think he has something to lose....me!!When I gave him an "ultimatum" that she must go he said no the business will destruct and when I said then I will leave then he told me he would intentionally sabotage the business. In our counselling session he took it back the sabotage part and said he was talking our fear of losing his family. Not sure if I believe that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Funny how it becomes hard to trust people who lie and cheat.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

"No contact" is obviously a very important part of R. Getting trust back and rebuilding the marriage is difficult even with "no contact" in place. 

Definitely get a VAR.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Protect yourself...Talk to a lawyer...You can continue the counselor game so he won't know what's up. You need to take the time to do this for yourself and your mother's hard earned cash. That man is just as sick as my husband...Please read the Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered in my signature below. You need to "take the time" to read it...You are avoiding the whole affair and the grand theft larceny going on under your nose. Them two have you working your azz off while they are planning their early retirement in Honolulu. There's always a "The End" to every movie, including yours and theirs...It's your choice what the end will look like...The more you ignore it the more it will not go away.

Losing half (if you have to) is better than losing whole.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Not only do you have no chance of reconciliation with her there, you can bet they have taken the affair underground and are boinking like bunnies. 

Not only do you need to see a lawyer, you need to see two lawyers; a business lawyer and a divorce lawyer. 

Your husband has you believing she is indispensable because he wants his affair partner close by. It's that simple. You are being deceived and you and your family are subsidizing the affair by your investments. 

Plant some VARS and a nanny cam and you will see I'm right. I'm very sorry.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

commonsenseisn't said:


> Not only do you have no chance of reconciliation with her there, you can bet they have taken the affair underground and are boinking like bunnies.
> 
> Not only do you need to see a lawyer, you need to see two lawyers; a business lawyer and a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...


They have never had sex only sexting and a very non professional relationship. They can't have sex at work as they work in a very public space. That being said the only thing that stopped them from having sex was me finding out I was pregnant and her not wanting to lose her daughter, that he admitted to me. And that is backed up with the text messages that I still spy on now without his knowledge. But I can't help but wonder what they say to each other in the office. I was thinking of hacking into the microphone and webcams of the computers in their office.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think anyone answered this. You can buy voice activated recorders in the electronics dept at walmart, bestbuy radio shack, office depot, etc. Be sure to buy the sony model that costs about sixty dollars. Get lithium batteries since they last a long time. Be sure you test it out before you use it to see how to work it.

How did you figure this out? Did they say they love each other? Why do you believe they are not having sex?

How many employees are there?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> They have never had sex only sexting and a very non professional relationship. They can't have sex at work as they work in a very public space. That being said the only thing that stopped them from having sex was me finding out I was pregnant and her not wanting to lose her daughter, that he admitted to me. And that is backed up with the text messages that I still spy on now without his knowledge. But I can't help but wonder what they say to each other in the office. I was thinking of hacking into the microphone and webcams of the computers in their office.


Please talk to a lawyer about doing anything like that. 

Have you considered a polygraph? 

From your descriptions, he doesn't seem particularly remorseful. He seems sorry that he got caught, which isn't the same at all. What ramifications has he seen so far?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

PBear said:


> Please talk to a lawyer about doing anything like that.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wouldn't be to use in court it would be for my own mental well being. To determine if he is worthy of even talking about reconciliation. For some reason I don't trust him even though all his actions show different. He goes to his own personal counselling, he goes to our couple counselling, he is remorseful, he tells me he wants our marriage, his actions and words are all perfect NOW but I still can't talk R with him cause she is there.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you are sure they haven't had sex from their texts that's good though near impossible to believe, you might save this.

Cheaters find ways to be together a million ways that you can't believe possible.

Nothing a cheater says can be trusted until independently verified. They just don't suddenly start being honest again.

They work together, sext and do not have sex. Amazing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

What about her spouse? Doesn't he deserve to know?


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

You would err to believe there's no sex involved. They are both sexually experienced thus would have no problem making it happen. Sexual tension between married people can explode any where any time. 

We have seen MANY like yourself who whole heartedly believed their spouse had not gone physical in the affair only to find out otherwise. Cheaters are very resourceful in executing sexual encounters. Plant the VAR & cam. You'll see.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I don't think anyone answered this. You can buy voice activated recorders in the electronics dept at walmart, bestbuy radio shack, office depot, etc. Be sure to buy the sony model that costs about sixty dollars. Get lithium batteries since they last a long time. Be sure you test it out before you use it to see how to work it.
> 
> How did you figure this out? Did they say they love each other? Why do you believe they are not having sex?
> 
> How many employees are there?


Well get this there is 23 all female employees, which he loves to flirt with. I hope this is the first one he crossed the line with but who knows. They did not say they loved each other but they rely on each other for emotional support. You know the person that believes the BS, I am a horrible wife her husband is a horrible person so on and so on. He opened up to her in ways he has never done with me, still has not done with me. They sexted every night, they almost crossed the line twice, he has seen her naked. It is too bad cause I really like her wish he wasn't so stupid and just picked a regular employee so I could have paid her off and been done with it!!!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> It wouldn't be to use in court it would be for my own mental well being. To determine if he is worthy of even talking about reconciliation. For some reason I don't trust him even though all his actions show different. He goes to his own personal counselling, he goes to our couple counselling, he is remorseful, he tells me he wants our marriage, his actions and words are all perfect NOW but I still can't talk R with him cause she is there.


She still might have grounds to expect privacy. 

Again, I'm not a lawyer. Just suggesting you talk to one. Your husband has put you both in a very precarious situation. An affair with an employee opens him up to a very messy situation. 

C


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I doubt an owner of a business cannot put surveilance equip in their business.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> He goes to his own personal counselling, he goes to our couple counselling, he is remorseful, he tells me he wants our marriage, his actions and words are all perfect now but i still can't talk r with him cause she is there.


This is how he is executing what we call cake eating. It's a strategy to keep you and the other woman on the hook simultaneously.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I doubt an owner of a business cannot put surveilance equip in their business.


I can, it is actually preferred, it is a Daycare centre and all staff signed a policy stating they could be monitored without their knowledge to ensure policy and procedures are being met. Least I got that one on my side.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

> They sexted every night, they almost crossed the line twice, he has seen her naked.



Wait...he's seen her naked, but they haven't had sex? Is she sending him naked pics or that happen face to face?


Either way, get rid of her. Period. There are other people that can take that position. Even if you have to go without for a while. 

And uh, let her know that you know. There is no way I could keep quiet about that regardless of what my H wanted me to do....


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She helps run a daycare, and you're concerned about her being replaceable?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> Wait...he's seen her naked, but they haven't had sex? Is she sending him naked pics or that happen face to face?
> 
> 
> Either way, get rid of her. Period. There are other people that can take that position. Even if you have to go without for a while.
> ...


Do you think she's irreplaceable or is that what your husband says? What if she had to leave for an illness, etc.?

Tell her husband, send him the texts.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> For some reason I don't trust him even though all his actions show different. .


This your "gut" screaming at you that he is active in the affair. Around here we have what we refer to as the "gut feeling". Experience has shown us that it is more reliable to trust in. 

Here's a rule for you. Whenever their actions do not sync with their words, you should always believe their actions. 

His words are "I want to work it out with you". 

His actions are "no action taken to get rid of other woman"

These two concepts are mutually exclusive. Which one are you going to believe?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What's the other business the two of them started up? What's he done to extract himself from that?

C


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> We are seeing a counsellor to deal with the issues leading up to him cheating but we can't deal with the elephant in the room because she is still in our life. Our counsellor has now got my husband to understand he needs to set clear boundaries with the OW and remain employee/boss only.


BTW, fire your idiot counselor. Of course you can't deal with the elephant in the room. YOU'VE GOT TO GET RID OF THE ELEPHANT, NOT DEAL WITH IT!

How about this for boundaries? 
You: Hubby, if that skank isn't gone by yesterday I will divorce you immediately. Non negotiable.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

jelly_bean said:


> Well get this there is 23 all female employees, which he loves to flirt with.


Don't forget all the moms that drop off and pick up their kids.

You need to tell this woman that you know all about the affair.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Unless you live in the middle of the desert, you can find a replacement for a day care manager. In fact, you could promote someone from inside, which gives the rest of the people higher morale and the drive to work harder, so they can get promoted, too.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I would not recommend that you change anything or talk to anyone like the OW, until you speak to a darn good attorney...Do not advise the counselor that you plan to do this, either. This involves businesses thus money. Money that belongs to YOU. Collect your evidence.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

In addition to the great advice you've gotten to get yourself to a lawyer for your and your mom's sakes, please ask said lawyer for a referral to a forensic accountant. Better to already have all the knowledge, info, resources etc you need and then not need them at all, than the alternative.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm not sure what's more niave. That you think they haven't had sexual contact or that you think the daycare manager is irreplaceable. They are both playing you like a fiddle. Fire the damn ho and file divorce papers on your remorseless WS to wake his dumb a$$ up from fantasyland. You need to take back your self respect like yesterday...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Calibre1212 said:


> I would not recommend that you change anything or talk to anyone like the OW, until you speak to a darn good attorney...Do not advise the counselor that you plan to do this, either. This involves businesses thus money. Money that belongs to YOU. Collect your evidence.


She can file a sexual harassment suit if she is fired for no reason and proves that her boss came on to her. Be very careful how you handle this now.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> I was thinking of the VAR though. Where do you find more information on those?


I suggest buying a Sony from en electronics store or do what I do... I downloaded Smart Voice Recorder on my tablet. It's free, sensitive and works perfect. I just leave my tablet sitting around and it records all noises for days on end.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Do not be afraid...Stop being afraid...Once you talk with an attorney, you will be more confident. This was my own demise, the thing called fear that my WS, his AP and people telling me "You could get sued if you this or that...", fear used against me...Until I wised up.


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## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

jelly_bean said:


> I work full-time on my own job during the day and my husband runs the business daily, so really it is up to him to find and train the replacement. I work nights and weekends on all the paperwork and accounting for the business. I want to tell her but my husband says she will quit instantly and then we are again screwed since nobody else has been trained. I want to sell the business which means I can't sabotage it cause nobody will buy it. My family has invested a lot of money in our business and I want them to be paid off.



You have to look at the big picture, don't trash your financial future, especially if you end up leaving your husband anyway. Keep the business going, sell it, pay your family off, they deserve that, and then once you have your own payoff as well from the sale of it, you will be able to not be codependent on him and really be in control of your future.
Wait it out, and make a plan. Meanwhile get a var in place if it is legal to do so, and in the process of all of this, you will know if you want to stay or if you want to leave. 
Think down the road, where do you want to be? Don't give this affair the power to ruin your own financial future and happiness.


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## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> There's only one employee in this business (besides the owners) because apparently if they fire her then the entire thing would collapse. So I'm doubting they have policies/procedures, org systems or an employee handbook. Sounds like a disorganized mom and pop shop at best.


If you have a payroll company issuing you your salary to you from your own business, then you can use the HR services that payroll companies offer for small businesses. They charge a nominal fee and offer the same sound legal advice that large companies have.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Insperity is that kind of company. They're trustworthy and good.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

who is the one painting her as "so indespensable"?? 

probably him...right...

your marriage or her...she needs to go...


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

here's my take. I don't think you want to work it out with your husband. because if you did you wouldn't say that this woman be gone yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

Recovery is definitely possible because you are on the right road. First, you are getting professional help and your husband seems to be open and honest with you. Second, steps are being taken to sell the business and move on. I am not a licensed counselor but I am sure that the one you are seeing will cover all of the bases and be a big help to you.

The presence of the other woman is a significant challenge, that is for sure. I don't quite understand why you can't move in another direction regarding her position, but your husband's interaction with her can certainly be minimized. Healing comes as trust is built and trust comes as your husband honestly and openly gives you access to his life. Your marriage and your relationship can be fully healed and can actually become better than you ever imagined.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Blessings!


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

So update from me with a bit of a rant. I used the logic you all gave me on this site to discuss with my husband how to plan an earlier exit strategy for the OW. I explained how we need to do this to proceed with R and we shouldn't choose this business over our marriage. He still refused saying we couldn't afford the extra training hours and then got upset that last week I said he didn't have to fire her but this week I changed my mind. I told him last week I said I was wrong to give him an ultimatum that he had to do it that day but I have always said I want her gone. Waiting a year for the business to possibly sell is just not healthy. I also said he needs to accept that I am in an emotional state right now and anything can trigger me to get upset or depressed. I said I am having a hard time with him going on his "boys" trip to Vegas and Phoenix next week for 10 days. He then got upset said he doesn't want to talk about our relationship all the time cause it is depressing to him...really to HIM! Which I replied to trust me I would much rather not be talking about the OW every day as well but guess what we can't do that cause everyday she is calling, texting or spending time with him. In which he got upset and said nothing he does is right everything and everything he does is wrong, which is BS cause I have been very careful to give him positive affirmation when he is doing helpful to our R. Then he said if I am going to be so emotional then maybe he should leave me. How did I suddenly turn into the bad guy? Long and short of is you are guys are correct he is cake eating, but not for the sexual side of it but because as long as she is there working he can still be the lazy a$$ he is now and not have to really work. He doesn't have to do anything for himself, either she does it for him or I do it for him. And since I am so hurt and angry right now I don't really do anything for him so she must be picking up the slack. Still doesn't solve my problem that because my husband is a selfish brat he will sabotage the business if I make her go or if I leave. So I am still trapped until I can get all the work done to get that place sold.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Quite a bit of eye-opening evidence will be available in Vegas & Phoenix.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas!! LOL


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm curious... How are you going to get the business ready for sale if your involvement is limited to doing the paperwork? What incentive does your husband have to make it ready to sell?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Come on......getting her out of there quickly without a lawsuit is letting the OW husband know what has happened. Will force the issue....net effect will be hiring a new manager sooner than later and possibly saving your marriage.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

oneMOreguy said:


> Come on......getting her out of there quickly without a lawsuit is letting the OW husband know what has happened. Will force the issue....net effect will be hiring a new manager sooner than later and possibly saving your marriage.


It's going to be difficult to ensure there's no lawsuit, since her husband has stupidly exposed them (the owners/investors) to a sexual harrasement lawsuit. All she has to do is say that she felt her job was at risk if she didn't go along with him...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas!! LOL


yeah that is where he saw the OW naked and she first hit on him. Which he said he said no too, probably only cause the OW's husband was sharing the suite and could come back at any time. or maybe it was me calling from the hospital where our three kids had just been rushed too cause we were in a serious car crash. Which any other father would have got his butt out of the naked hot tub in Vegas and headed to his injured wife and family. his excuse...I didn't ask him to come and help. 

Twisted...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I would say at this point, your marriage is a write-off since your husband isn't willing to do the heavy lifting to fix the damage he's done. So focus on what you need to do for you and your kids. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

And these people are taking care of other people's children.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

PBear said:


> I'm curious... How are you going to get the business ready for sale if your involvement is limited to doing the paperwork? What incentive does your husband have to make it ready to sell?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He wants to sell as well. He does not like running a childcare centre cause to be honest it is hard work and he is adverse to hard work LOL Plus he doesn't read paper work well. I was smart enough since my family was the primary investor to give myself majority shares. Not my fault if he didn't take it to a lawyer. Let's say this affair was not the first lie he has told me so I protected myself well.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What about advertising for a quality daycare manager, and relieving him of his position? Even if it costs you more upfront, it might give you more freedom to separate the marriage issues from the business issues. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, in practical terms, what steps have you taken to protect yourself? Have you spoken to an attorney about how to fire her and how to separate from your husband? Have you spoken to anyone about who to replace her with? Have you looked at your other employees to see if anyone has training and can take over?

Not seeing much reason here for letting your husband stay married to you.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

You need to decide if you really want to work things out or not. Once that gets finalized, the rest should fall into place.

If you are the majority shareholder, would it be possible to replace your husband at the business? Seems like he doesn't do much there anyway.

Good luck.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

After dividing up all the assets in a divorce does he think he'll keep the business or that it will even remain intact?


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Noble1 said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation.
> 
> You need to decide if you really want to work things out or not. Once that gets finalized, the rest should fall into place.
> 
> ...


I have no desire to run a daycare, I already had to quit my career once to help him out when a previous director quit, that is what he is trained in and this is supposed to be his career. I have a great career and right now with this insecurity of my future I need to know I have salary to support my family. My husband has only worked for 4 years out of the 10 we have been together. It does make me feel bad that when the business is sold he has no source of income.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> My husband has only worked for 4 years out of the 10 we have been together. It does make me feel bad that when the business is sold he has no source of income.


Say what?! I'd divorce him for that reason alone. I want a man with integrity.

And why would you feel bad? He's simply have to be GETTING OFF HIS LAZY BUTT for once and acting like an adult and paying his own way. Poor baby. He has a degree. Let him get his own job.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

So he has an affair (EA only - I doubt it but whatever). 

Won't fire his affair partner. Can't blame him. Reason 1A. She's gonna sue you guys. Reason 1B. He wants to keep seeing her.

He doesn't want to talk about it - too depressing. Stop encroaching on his lifestyle.

Now he's off to a guys trip to Vegas. And you are OK with this? He throws your family's security, livelihood, and stability down the f--king drain and he is rewarded with a guys trip to Vegas?

Seriously? Am I missing something?

As we said yesterday --- see a lawyer. One who can make sure you aren't on the hook for this business that you should shut down now. And while you are there get the divorce going.

Disrespectful trash, he is.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

I still don't understand why you can't let her know that you know about this affair. And why was she in Las Vegas with your husband while you were home with 3 kids?

Is she going on this upcoming trip? Is her husband going? Are you going? You should be going and bring the kids along too! 

And sorry but running a daycare center is not brain surgery. There might be some learning curve, but if this is your husband's full-time job he should be able to handle it if she quits. And that would be perfect if she quit (avoid lawsuit if she quits). Make sure her husband also knows that she got naked for your husband the last time they were in Las Vegas. See if he believes that your husband turned her down if she was naked and offered it to him!


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Hicks said:


> And these people are taking care of other people's children.


Well Holy Hallelujah! Dang! :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

PBear said:


> What about advertising for a quality daycare manager, and relieving him of his position? Even if it costs you more upfront, it might give you more freedom to separate the marriage issues from the business issues.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yep...Cause you are getting 2 for the price of 4...


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Now he's off to a guys trip to Vegas. And you are OK with this? He throws your family's security, livelihood, and stability down the f--king drain and he is rewarded with a guys trip to Vegas?


I am not "OK" with the trip. I told him yesterday how much it is stressing me out but at least he is on a trip with a bunch of married men this time and they all have marriages that are 20+ years. The last trip was organized by the staff of the daycare. I couldn't go cause somebody had to stay and take care of the kids. Things got very out of control with a lot of drinking and not one but two staff members hit on him while they were down there. He told me about the one when he got home but not the OW until after he got caught in text messages. 

Worse part is our therapist had to explain to him why it was hurtful for him to keep planning another trip with the same group next year. His reply to the therapist is "well she can come this year". Like I really want to go on a trip to Vegas with your OW and her husband and the other woman that hit on you. How stupid can you be???


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

You know, you need to STOP believing that the way YOU feel about him is the same way HE feels about you. If you were too goody-two-shoes before, prepare yourself to get a little less good...


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Cancel the trip now...Leave him home with the children and go buy coffee in Paris....Damn it! You are sending staff to Vegas???? Lady, you DO NOT MIX BUSINESS WITH PLEASURE...Especially with your type of business...You are financing orgies in Vegas??? I hope to gosh Almighty, you are driving a S-class and your kids are wearing Polo...What are you Warren Buffett for fools? What's this called? Passive-Passive


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Why don't you tell the OW's husband? He will make her quit.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Vegas turns many married men into frat boys within 10 minutes of arrival.

Married men with strong moral compasses can go have a good time without incident.

Your husband however, does not have a strong moral compass.

PS as a father of two young children, if I found out the staff at my kids' daycare did annual excursions to Vegas, I would pull my kids out that day. Fair? No probably not. But perception is 9/10 of reality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Why don't you tell the OW's husband? He will make her quit.


"Honey, he is my boss, he wanted to see me naked I didn't know what to do (("

Better call Saul.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

it going with married men does absolutely no good. My husband went with a bunch of married men and he still managed to screw around in Vegas. 

if he were serious about reconciliation he would most definitely understand and offer to cancel the trip. in fact if he were really serious about it he would cancel it automatically because he knows that your feelings are more important than his stupid trip. 

I have a really difficult time believing they haven't had sex too. Did you get a lie detector test on that one? 

bottom line is that your husband isn't truly remorseful. And whether he wants to keep her there because he's lazy or because he wants access to someone who wants to have sex with him I don't know. neither are really great. 

he is choosing selfishness over the marriage. And it seems like that's the way he operates In general. it makes me wonder if he's had more affairs than the one you caught him in. selfish and entitles people tend to be more likely to have affairs.

and his poor pitiful me crap really irks me. 

yes poor him what he must put up with because he couldn't maintain proper boundaries. and essentially calling you emotional as though there's something wrong with you instead of apologizing for what he has done to his marriage is unconscionable. Gaslighting. Because he's trying to make you feel crazy for wanting the things that you want and requiring certain behaviors from him. he was rather make you feel crazy and make you feel bad then give up something. 

and that is because he doesn't think that he is going to give up you if he doesn't do something differently. 

I think you should tell her husband but I would hold off for a while because it's important to find out whether your husband is capable of making the right decisions for your marriage on his own rather than having the other man kicking ass and then pull his wife out of work. 

if he doesn't have to do the firing then you will never know. 

but him going to Vegas would be a dealbreaker for me as well.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I hope your health is great, that your have a personal trainer at the gym (since your job is sedentary), that your children have college and trust funds. If they don't, time to start. Time to redirect the vacation budget of that scoundrel you married. Summer just ended, I hope they know almost all the theme parks in the land of their birth. They need a vacation too. SO do you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This just gets worse and worse. Just divorce the dude. You'll end up better in the long run. He can always straighten up on his own, learn to work a real job, learn to pay for his own trips, get real-life consequences for acting like a ********* instead of having his wife cover up for him all the time, and maybe learn a lesson so he can earn you and his family back. Or...not.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> "Honey, he is my boss, he wanted to see me naked I didn't know what to do (("
> 
> Better call Saul.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hopefully, she has saved copies of the their sexts.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Please try to envision a positive life even without him. You probably feel "it's better than being alone". 10 Affirmations about who you are: Your best qualities...stat...Be kind to you for a change. These people surrounding you are taking you for granted beyond belief...Because they are treating you the way you treat yourself. You deserve much more and much better.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> Long and short of is you are guys are correct he is cake eating, but not for the sexual side of it but because as long as she is there working he can still be the lazy a$$ he is now and not have to really work. He doesn't have to do anything for himself, either she does it for him or I do it for him. And since I am so hurt and angry right now I don't really do anything for him so she must be picking up the slack. .


Yes, indeed. You are learning fast. Good job. 

Concerning your dilemma about selling the business without a loss... consult a good business lawyer. Don't assume anything about this situation till you have a pro look at it. Good luck.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> My husband has only worked for 4 years out of the 10 we have been together. It does make me feel bad that when the business is sold he has no source of income.


The only thing worse than a cheating husband is a deadbeat cheating husband. DO NOT feel bad that he will be left without an income... it will do him good to have to learn how to make an honest living.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> I am not "OK" with the trip. I told him yesterday how much it is stressing me out


This may not be something you've dealt with before, but know that in a marriage, you ARE allowed to say I'm not ok with the trip AND IF YOU GO, THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES.

Like, "I can't stop you from going but given what you've done, if you now choose to go on a trip to LAS VEGAS of all places, you will not be sleeping in the bedroom when you get back."

You have the right and the power to say that. Have you ever?


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

So we had a very serious conversation about my feelings on R today and how the OW being there affects any chance of us getting back together. He said he will get rid of her once he feels she is all set up and taken care of so he doesn't feel bad. Like what the heck is that!And POW out of nowhere the real truth comes out, he said I played a big part in why he had an affair because I would not give him enough sex and when he threatened to go somewhere else I would say go ahead. He also said he doesn't really think he had an affair because he did not have sex. I did not play this game at all I said you strayed because you were not happy but instead of being a grown adult and telling me about your feelings and fixing the relationship you went somewhere else. That is not on me that is all on him. So then my question is does this mean he is not really remorsefully? I know unless he feels real remorse this R is doomed. I also told him R will be the hardest thing he has ever done in his life, you need to go to places that most people avoid. We need to be more honest with each other than we have ever been in our life. In some ways I am glad this affair happened, it is making us do the real work to see if we truly are meant to be together and forcing us to face all our marriage issues. But she is still not going anywhere, at least not in the short term


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Until he accepts that what he did was HIS decision, it's a lost cause. And him putting her needs above yours is another sign it's not going to work. 

Having said that... Did you actually tell him to go get sex somewhere else?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> So then my question is does this mean he is not really remorsefully?
> 
> He said he will get rid of her once he feels she is all set up and taken care of so he doesn't feel bad. *= No Remorse*
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> But she is still not going anywhere, at least not in the short term


If SHE's not going anywhere, then HE goes.

Kick his lying cheating unremorseful LAZY ass out.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

PBear said:


> Until he accepts that what he did was HIS decision, it's a lost cause. And him putting her needs above yours is another sign it's not going to work.
> 
> Having said that... Did you actually tell him to go get sex somewhere else?
> 
> ...


I guess I kinda of did in an argument one or twice. He said if I couldn't fulfill he needs there were tons of women out there that wanted him so he would just go somewhere else. I told him go ahead but he wouldn't like the consequences. In my defense I was recovering from a serious accident with a horrible concussion and was pregnant at the time with a difficult pregnancy so I wasn't really in the "mood". In fairness I guess I should have seen this as the first indicator he was having an affair, the whole there is other women that want me. Amazing how it is becomes do clear after D day.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> He said if I couldn't fulfill he needs there were tons of women out there that wanted him so he would just go somewhere else. *I told him go ahead but he wouldn't like the consequences.*


It's time to give him those consequences.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BEYOND time.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> I want to tell her but my husband says she will quit instantly and then we are again screwed since nobody else has been trained.


Jellybean,

Your marriage is in the balance. This is one of those life decisions where you have to take the lesser of the two evils. You have to decide what's more important;your marriage or finances. He is the one that brought on this mess, he is the one that has to fix it.

At the very least, you should give him no more than a week to get her ass gone. If he doesn't, you're gone.

And even if he does, that's just step one. His genuine remorse has to follow. Your R will be false, and you'll be miserable - if you accept anything less.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok. *Donning flame proof suit*. 

I could see being so frustrated with the lack of intimacy in my previous marriage that I would tell my STBXW "If you're not interested in having sex with me, then you won't care if I get it somewhere else?" And I've even "mostly jokingly" suggested using that line in this forum. But that's based on my situation, after years of trying to work on things with her, and being frustrated by her lack of desire to even try to fix things. Obviously, I have no knowledge of what went on in your marriage, nor the timing of things. 

Having said that... You made it clear that there would be "consequences" if he did that, even if you weren't clear on what those consequences would be. His decision was entirely his, and he needs to own that if there was to be any chance of trying to fix things. But given all the other things going on, he really has no desire to work on fixing the issues. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just so you know, he is acting this way for one reason: You allow it. You have CONSISTENTLY allowed his poor behavior your entire marriage. You allowed him to quit job after job. You allowed him to mooch off of you. You allowed him to give you lame excuses without demanding he FIX the job situation or else. You allowed him to cheat without any repercussion. You allowed him to spend YOUR money to go on lewd trips while you were in dire straights and then you allowed him to NOT SUFFER any consequences when he got back.

Why should he start caring now? You've been a doormat your whole marriage; he has no fear of you. He doesn't HAVE to do ANYTHING. He has dictated the path of your marriage the entire time and you've done nothing to fix it.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> So we had a very serious conversation about my feelings on R today and how the OW being there affects any chance of us getting back together. *He said he will get rid of her once he feels she is all set up and taken care of so he doesn't feel bad.* Like what the heck is that!And POW out of nowhere the real truth comes out, *he said I played a big part in why he had an affair because I would not give him enough sex and when he threatened to go somewhere else I would say go ahead. He also said he doesn't really think he had an affair because he did not have sex.* I did not play this game at all I said you strayed because you were not happy but instead of being a grown adult and telling me about your feelings and fixing the relationship you went somewhere else. That is not on me that is all on him. So then my question is does this mean he is not really remorsefully? I know unless he feels real remorse this R is doomed. I also told him R will be the hardest thing he has ever done in his life, you need to go to places that most people avoid. We need to be more honest with each other than we have ever been in our life. In some ways I am glad this affair happened, it is making us do the real work to see if we truly are meant to be together and forcing us to face all our marriage issues. But she is still not going anywhere, at least not in the short term


1) THAT'S HER FRIKIN HUSBAND'S RESPONSIBILITY, NOT YOURS'.

2) So how did he compensate for the sex you weren't giving him? Jacking-off on text messages?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> he will get rid of her once he feels she is all set up


This is about the most NON-remorseful thing I've ever seen. HE should have no right to determine when things happen. But you've allowed him to run the marriage as he sees fit; the cheater NEVER gets to decide how things end, ok? This is just plain wrong.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Not only is he gaslighting, trickle-truthing, blame-shifting etc., you are doing them to yourself and rug-hoovering. Have you even read one message on here...Have you noted anything anyone is telling you? 

He is making himself more liable in reference to you as in you yourself can sue him...Here's a clue..."He will run your business into the ground if you do not comply with his "Affair" on his terms"...You are the majority shareholder for Christ's sake. Since you are doing all the paperwork anyway, you need to bite the bullet, get present in that daycare, fire her and assume her responsibilities since he is Mr. Prince Charming in your eyes and will always be. Then sell it, give him all the money so he can give it to her. Laziness.

Wake up and smell the coffee...No one else can smell it for you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Do you even need to ask if he's remorseful? It's totally obvious he isn't. And he thinks you're overreacting to what he considers a non-affair. Many men feel unless it's PIV it's not really an affair. That certainly gives him a lot of leeway. He probably feels that, since in his mind it wasn't an affair, consequences don't apply.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

He's also seen her naked... If there wasn't PIV sex I bet there was just about everything else though.

The scenario you describe wasn't permission for him to have an affair. As others have made clear. On top of that he makes you feel bad for lack of intimacy while you were pregnant with a concussion from a car accident. Two legit excuses for lack of intimacy. 

Sell the business or let it go. Sell the husband too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Openminded said:


> Do you even need to ask if he's remorseful? It's totally obvious he isn't. And he thinks you're overreacting to what he considers a non-affair. Many men feel unless it's PIV it's not really an affair. That certainly gives him a lot of leeway. He probably feels that, since in his mind it wasn't an affair, consequences don't apply.


Many people of BOTH genders don't acknowledge emotional or "non-physical" affairs, until it happens to them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

If you own the majority ownership of the day care, I would assume you have say-so over who runs it. Correct?

Consider trying to recruit a day-care manager on your own. Once you have a candidate, tell husband that the candidate can have his job or the job of the OW. 

You put an end to the cake-eating. You will fire him as day-care manager or fire him as a husband, his choice. (And depending on your mood, you may want to fire him from both.)


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Not only is he gaslighting, trickle-truthing, blame-shifting etc., you are doing them to yourself and rug-hoovering. Have you even read one message on here...Have you noted anything anyone is telling you?
> 
> He is making himself more liable in reference to you as in you yourself can sue him...Here's a clue..."He will run your business into the ground if you do not comply with his "Affair" on his terms"...You are the majority shareholder for Christ's sake. Since you are doing all the paperwork anyway, you need to bite the bullet, get present in that daycare, fire her and assume her responsibilities since he is Mr. Prince Charming in your eyes and will always be. Then sell it, give him all the money so he can give it to her. Laziness.
> 
> Wake up and smell the coffee...No one else can smell it for you.


I think I have used the advice in this forum. It gave me the strength to tell him how I feel. I may not like his answers but at least I am now aware of exactly where I stand. I also know I am not to blame for his affair BUT if I went in to that daycare and kicked them both out it would be the death of me. I HATE working there, I am an Accountant and an IT Specialist not a childcare director and I have no desire to leave my very well paying job that brings me my only real joy right now to save his ass and run that daycare for him. I have already sacrificed enough and trust me if my Mom's money was not in play I would care less if he runs that daycare into the ground, I don't need his money never have never will. This site has given me the words I needed cause I was stuck. So for me the advice on here has been invaluable, the good and the bad. Sometimes like it or not people get trapped in these bad situations for many different reasons. For now I need to plan my exit strategy to minimize the risk to my Mother, myself and my children. But after these talks I now know I need to exit this relationship but it will be on my terms not his and I will be able with my head held high! So thank you all for all your advice I truly appreciate it!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

yeah you better find out what his definition of sex is. 

you're doing the right things you're asking the right questions don't feel beaten up on. 

most people when they've been cheated on question their own take on reality. So you asking for feedback is not unusual .


But no, he is not remorseful.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Good luck jelly bean. You've been given a crap deal that's for sure, and I'm sorry for that.

Give your kids an extra hug tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> I think I have used the advice in this forum.
> 
> if I went in to that daycare and kicked them both out it would be the death of me. I HATE working there


So you're using the advice? At least four times so far, people have told you this:


> If you own the majority ownership of the day care, you have say-so over who runs it. Recruit a new day-care manager on your own. Tell husband that the candidate can have his job or the job of the OW.


It is THE single best solution to your problem, yet you avoid it. Why is that? My guess is that you are AFRAID to confront him. He has pigeonholed you into the submissive position - evidenced by him quitting jobs and living off your money and letting you pay for his trips - and you somehow forgot, or never learned, that you have equal value in your relationship.

Well, you have a choice: stay in this unhealthy situation or start standing up for yourself. Hire a new manager, tell him he can either quit or fire the OW, because ONE of them is going to be replaced.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> . For now I need to plan my exit strategy to minimize the risk to my Mother, myself and my children.


That's cool jelly bean. (no pun intended).

Talk to an attorney, write down that exit plan, and implement it. Your husband doesn't have to know what it is.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> I think I have used the advice in this forum. It gave me the strength to tell him how I feel. I may not like his answers but at least I am now aware of exactly where I stand. I also know I am not to blame for his affair BUT if I went in to that daycare and kicked them both out it would be the death of me. I HATE working there, I am an Accountant and an IT Specialist not a childcare director and I have no desire to leave my very well paying job that brings me my only real joy right now to save his ass and run that daycare for him. I have already sacrificed enough and trust me if my Mom's money was not in play I would care less if he runs that daycare into the ground, I don't need his money never have never will. This site has given me the words I needed cause I was stuck. So for me the advice on here has been invaluable, the good and the bad. Sometimes like it or not people get trapped in these bad situations for many different reasons. For now I need to plan my exit strategy to minimize the risk to my Mother, myself and my children. But after these talks I now know I need to exit this relationship but it will be on my terms not his and I will be able with my head held high! So thank you all for all your advice I truly appreciate it!


One of the things that fool many people a majority of the time is the feeling that their circumstance is permanent, as in to leave/sacrifice the greatest job of your life to go rectify the earthquake happening outside of it, which has far greater consequences for you (than getting fired from your dream job) in the long-term, if it is left unmanaged. It is easy to "spiral" in the erroneous belief that your situation is permanent but believe me and all of us, when I say that this is a temporary experience to teach you something you have been ignoring repeatedly...

It's not about what happens to you, it's about how you handle it. Also, it is easier to leave things "status quo" and stay mediocre. At least you are finding some way out of this forest you were flung into but this kind of forest is one that we all acknowledge, does not come with a map and a compass...It is one where your draw your very own map based on your very own internal compass, that's called "gut". We are here to help you claim yours.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

turnera said:


> So you're using the advice? At least four times so far, people have told you this:
> It is THE single best solution to your problem, yet you avoid it. Why is that? My guess is that you are AFRAID to confront him. He has pigeonholed you into the submissive position - evidenced by him quitting jobs and living off your money and letting you pay for his trips - and you somehow forgot, or never learned, that you have equal value in your relationship.
> 
> Well, you have a choice: stay in this unhealthy situation or start standing up for yourself. Hire a new manager, tell him he can either quit or fire the OW, because ONE of them is going to be replaced.


So who will train her, who will ensure she is set-up in her new job for success? Do you really think the man I described is suddenly going to become passive and say okay I will get this new person trained and not show contempt and loathing when I force the OW out of his life? That is like saying I dumped all the booze from house to the alcoholic will no longer drink. It is naïve to think anybody can just walk off the street and run a business, especially with no support. The only way this can work is when my husband is ready to accept it and properly train a replacement or when we get rid of the business. Forcing a new person in there is NOT a viable solution. It is like issuing an ultimatum in a marriage which we all know how well that works. He has to want to fix this problem, which as I stated he does not want so therefore it means he does not want our marriage. You can take a horse to water but you can not make them drink. And there is laws that protect her as an employee, I can't just go in and say you are out cause I don't like you, doesn't work that way in the real world. The best advice I got was set up policies and procedures that she can not possibly meet so that I can performance manage her out of there but again do you really think my husband will write up his precious OW...no chance. I now see the issue really is not her, she is such a small part of it, the issue is my husband as he really is the only person that can fix this and he is choosing not too. He chose the easy path again which goes to show he really is not ready to change.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> So who will train her, who will ensure she is set-up in her new job for success?


I deal with hiring people all the time. You hire someone with experience, so that they can hit the ground running. There is nothing special abut your daycare center that any experienced daycare center manager can't figure out in about two hours' time, unless you cater to handicapped kids or something. Set up your processes this weekend, initiate them Monday morning (inform her of the new rules), start documenting lapses, and you're on your way. Meanwhile, set up a hiring notice this weekend for a new manager, start interviewing people, and if you find someone you like, hire her (and explain that you will be promoting her once OW is gone) and have OW train her as the assistant manager.

Of course, what really needs to happen is that you fire your husband. Anyway, you're controlling interest, you make the decisions. IF he won't write her up, the OWNER will. You just have to have the guts to do it.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Or you could just tell her husband. She is doing to him what your husband is doing to you. 

You are married to a man who has chosen to make a fool out of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

How much do you owe your mother? While it may seem like alot it may not be in the grand scheme of making yourself miserable.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> And t*here is laws that protect her as an employee, I can't just go in and say you are out cause I don't like you,* doesn't work that way in the real world. *The best advice I got was set up policies and procedures that she can not possibly meet so that I can performance manage her out of there*


Take it from an HR Manager, there are ways to minimize the risk of employee EEOC claims and lawsuits. You can never eliminate them. Many times the best course is to terminate the employee and allow for those minimal risks; when it's otherwise best for the business - or in your case, best for your marriage. Performance managing her out could take weeks or months or might never happen. As I see it, you don't have that much time.

I used to be a small business owner myself. If I were in your situation (or I should say, your husband's), I would recruit a new manager to step in the next day after I fired her. Then I would pull the trigger. And I would tell her that the reason I'm firing you is for inappropriate and unprofessional behavior with a co-owner of my company. That's all I would tell her. She knows what she did.

If you have to close the business down for a couple of days, or if he has to spend a week of his time (or you) training the new manager; so be it.

In order for her to have half a chance at at a claim, she'd basically have to prove that she was discriminated against due to her protected class.

Is she over 40? Is she a minority? Is she disabled? If no, that improves your risk. Women that cheat with the boss's husband are not a protected class. Her main trump card would be charging your husband with a sexual harassment claim. But that could just as easily happen even if you waited to fire her. I would also doubt that she would want to make her indiscretions public. Perhaps the shame of it would dissuade her.

To me, this is one of those times where you accept that risk.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

One other thing to mention jellybean.

If this woman quit without notice to take another job, was hospitalized for weeks, or you had to fire her for stealing, choking a baby or any other reason; would your situation be any different?


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> Or you could just tell her husband. She is doing to him what your husband is doing to you.
> 
> You are married to a man who has chosen to make a fool out of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DO THIS!!! Her husband deserves to know and if he wants to save his marriage he will demand she quit. Keep all the evidence you have so if she should try to file a sexual harassment case you have evidence she was a willing participant.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

jelly, what I'm hearing from you is excuses. But I think the excuses emanate from you not knowing what to do. Meaning you don't know what she knows so you can't train the new person. Well here's a suggestion. Hire one or two new people and have her cross train. 

if she's smart she'll read the writing on the wall and she will quit on her own. 

there are temporary agencies and employment agencies and head hunters out there that will do the lion's share of veting a person for the position. utilize the resources available and stop making excuses.

you might even decide that you want to keep the business after you fire and divorce your husband. 

you could also approach another day care provider and ask them if they would like to buy your business. 

the point is that there are options . anytime someone is throwing out a bunch of excuses it is because they are most likely ignorant of what the real possibilities are. Yes you're going to have to do a little bit of work to resolve this situation but that's what you took on when you bought a business in the first place. 

it's your husband is a dumbass he probably told her about what you're saying. And given that she is a dangerous thing to your business. I'm sure that you have regulations and compliance obligations in addition to the financial obligations. she's a sleaze ball for going after your husband and might be a sleazeball in other areas as well. 

keeping her around is a liability in a number of places. 

fear never accomplished anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

by the way don't you have documented operating procedures?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Since your mother is a partner, would she be able/willing to help run things if you could get the two of them out of the way?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Jelly Bean

I am sorry you have found yourself in this situation. Yeah, it does sound like you are stuck for a while. Here are my thoughts, FWIW

I can't tell if you are interested in saving your marriage based on your posts. I suspect you are riding the emotional roller coaster right now, perfectly natural. You sound pretty fed up with H right now, totally justified.

I would back off of confronting him and pressing him for now until you have had time to decide your path. That may be hard, use TAM to vent while you are doing this.

Talk to an attorney. Here's what I would ask.

1. Can you use your majority ownership to adjust the ownership structure of your business? Can you issue ownership (stock or % interest) to your mother? Can you trust your mother? This may protect some of the money she lent you in the event of a divorce or sale. Also, ask if, in the event of a divorce, if your's and H's combined ownership constitutes a marital asset. You may end up losing half of the business value in a divorce, regardless of your ownership %.

2. Could you use business ownership as a way to entice a new, quality manager that would take the place of H and OW? Perhaps increasing ownership for years of service? As a minority shareholder, what would be your H's input into this decision?

3. I would not expose OW to OWH right now. If you are able to devise an exit strategy, you may be able to use the risk of exposure as a way to force her out and leave without a fight. I actually did this with one of my H's OW. I let her know I knew, and that anytime I wanted to, I could nuke her marriage. It was a good feeling!

Good luck! Don't give up!


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

I spent some time today reading about the 180. In my situation will this work or backfire since he still has OW in his life? Opinions?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jelly_bean said:


> I spent some time today reading about the 180. In my situation will this work or backfire since he still has OW in his life? Opinions?


First off, define "work or backfire" based on your goals. 

The 180 should be done for the purpose of making you ready to move on, with or without him (if he gets his head out of his ass). It MIGHT have the benefit of showing him a preview of what life will be like if he doesn't shape up, but it's real intention should be to help you. 

Having said that, I almost always advocate a hard and aggressive response. Don't sit around waiting for him to decide what he wants to do. You decide what YOU want, and then start making that happen. He can chose to join you if he demonstrates 100% committment to fixing things, otherwise, he can stay with his OM. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So he isn't going to give her up and you aren't going to kick him out or expose her to her husband? 

The 180 is for what purpose? 

He chose her over you. You can 180 him all you like. It won't change the fact he won't get rid of her or inconvenience himself for you and won't even blow off Vegas for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't see anything that will work for you. You've chosen to allow a lazy cheater to define all the rules in your life and you've done nothing but complain. Any lazy cheater worth his salt will tell you he can stand some nagging - he just ignores it - cos he's getting to keep doing whatever he wants - use your money (and your mom's) for himself, cheat, wh*re around in Vegas - and all he has to do to get it is to listen to you nag once in a while. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm still curious as to what would happen if this OW got severely ill or was involved in an accident. What would you guys do? If there is absolutely no one else to take her place, that doesn't seem like good business management. 

My suggestion would be to get on the ball hiring at least 2 more people. One to take the place of the OW - and another as a backup. Seems strange that there is no one else who could do this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have been offered a wide range of solutions. Which one (or more) of these have you started on?


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

I know everybody has there own way of dealing. I will be leaving when it makes sense for me and not him. I already live in my own room and have set up my own bank accounts. The business will be sold, hopefully in 5-6 months. Just to be clear I know he is rug sweeping, I know I need to leave, and I know there is no chance of R. So if she stays or go I care less anymore all I need to do is keep that business running without me having to quit my only security I have and get my Moms $200K out if there. I am proud of the person I am and that is not a vindictive evil person. I want to leave this relationship with the person I always have been caring, giving, intelligent, and optimistic. I will feel he has won if takes that from me. So the fact that I don't want to ruin her life or punish him does not make me a doormat it makes me the better person.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Jelly Bean, in the end all of us have to lead our own lives, we can listen to all the posters, read all the books, attend all the counseling sessions, but after all that your the only one that has to live with the decision you make towards your happiness, however you define that. You have set up those goals towards that dream, you have taken steps to become more independent, more secure in what you want out of life and out of a relationship and its not with him, but at the same time you also know you must first untie the knots of the present in order to be free and without regrets. So good for you....you chose wisely.
something to think about, for your husband and for the OW, you are a daily reminder of their deceit and transgressions, he must live everyday he sees you and realizes the treachery he committed against you and your marriage. There is no worse feeling for a man then to realize his short comings....perhaps that is the best kind of revenge to move on and move well, while the soiled remnants of the past look on as you are the better person, while they must live with their guilt dark in Plato's cave of ignorance.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

No one is asking you to be vindictive. Protecting yourself and calling an Ace an Ace, that's not us asking you to be vindictive. If being a "better" person is so much more important to you, according to your definition of it, that is indeed your call.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i would still tell other womans husband after the divorce. 

poor man is being played for a fool, and she is probably blaming him for everything under the sun.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

After you sell the business and divorce your H, please consider sending an anonymous letter to the OW husband. He does deserve to know that he is being cheated on. If for no other reason than to have himself checked for STD's. Whether you want to do this or not is up to you of course. 

Just consider how you would feel in his shoes. Would you want someone to tell you?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are a better person in your responsibility to your mother and yourself but you leave the other woman's husband completely in the dark. Doesn't he deserve the right to choose whether to divorce his cheating spouse the same as you? You don't want to ruin her life but you are allowing her to ruin someone else's.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> It is naïve to think anybody can just walk off the street and run a business, especially with no support. .


Not necessarily. Don't let yourself believe this fallacy. I've witnessed and participated in plenty of "house cleanings" in the business world and it's amazing how well new blood can pick up the ball and run with it. I really wish you could "see" what I've seen in this subject so that your mind would be liberated from this idea. 

Think about it ... how could the business do worse than deadbeat husband and entitled affair partner? Quietly look around and find their replacements, then bam, fire them. In the meantime document their poor performance so you'll be legally justified in terminating their employment. Get a lawyer to coach you so you'll be safe doing so.

From what you've written I see no remorse or understanding on your husbands part thus you are right to dump him. Make no mistake, deadbeat husbands are a bane to our society and to you. I, being a man, harbor no mercy on this type of guy and I feel qualified to tell you that you are better off without him. YOU CAN DO BETTER, even if it means being single the rest of your life. All the best.

ETA just saw your post about selling out in a few months. If you're confident you can sell the business soon it would probably be best to just wait it out. Once the business is sold you should be ready to swiftly divorce and expose. Use the 180 to help yourself get a head start moving on in the emotional department.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

commonsenseisn't said:


> Not necessarily. Don't let yourself believe this fallacy. I've witnessed and participated in plenty of "house cleanings" in the business world and it's amazing how well new blood can pick up the ball and run with it. I really wish you could "see" what I've seen in this subject so that your mind would be liberated from this idea.
> 
> Think about it ... how could the business do worse than deadbeat husband and entitled affair partner? Quietly look around and find their replacements, then bam, fire them. In the meantime document their poor performance so you'll be legally justified in terminating their employment. Get a lawyer to coach you so you'll be safe doing so.
> 
> ...


Thanks this is great advice. Don't get me wrong I am pretty sure I could get me husband to get rid of her and we could hire a new manager but what is the point. I know that sounds lazy and maybe it is but if he wants her he can have her. I am so much better than her, for example I don't have affairs with my boss while on a trip with my husband sharing the same suite. Like really how gross! He has already starting lying to me again, he is deleting text messages from her from his phone thinking I won't know but I am an IT geek, I have been cloning his phone for months. He is leaving town for 12 days where he will feel comfortable texting like crazy cause he doesn't think I can see his phone. I am a betting person and I bet their text messages increase in frequency and content again. I feel a little two faced acting like everything is okay when I know he is lying and I don't say anything so I can gather more evidence while he is away. But that is nothing compared to cheating right LOL Plus really what kinda of guy goes away for 12 days this close the being caught in an affair to the city it started without me. Oh and is missing my birthday for this trip. Talk about a great chance for him to show remorse. The only decision I have left to make is once this business is sold and they are both out of my life will I tell her husband? I will make that call then I guess in the meanwhile I will gather evidence to show him if the time happens.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you're divorcing him?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You cloning his phone for months made me LOL! 

He is so busted. What a putz! 

I guess enjoying his stupidity is small consolation but it is better than nothing. So have fun with it! 

He must not think you will ever divorce him.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

turnera said:


> So you're divorcing him?


That is the plan. I would leave while he is away but I want to set myself up a bit better first. It is stressful enough getting divorced with a good plan. I will meet with a lawyer while he is away though. And find the agent to list our business. He thinks we are selling the business so we can R so let him. He lies to me everyday so I don't feel guilty. Some people get revenge with an A I will get it with leaving him on his own with nobody to blame but himself. My deception will not be lying about an OW it will be making him comfortable that he rug swept everything and we will be okay and then I will pull the rug out from under him just like I feel now. He will not be a sane and normal man when I leave, our therapist already warned me on that one so I better have the loose ends all tied up cause he already told me if I leave he plans on making my life a living hell. Did you know that most spouses that are left are usually angry for about half the time you are married? So for me he will be a pr*ick for 5 years.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> You cloning his phone for months made me LOL!
> 
> He is so busted. What a putz!
> 
> ...


He obviously underestimates me or overestimates himself LOL

I do try to give him a chance to be honest once in awhile just to see how much of a lying piece of well you know what he is. Like today I told him I checked his phone and noticed she texted him in the middle of the night again. I asked if he texted her back, he said no LIE 1 he did. He gave me his phone to fix an issue and I said hey what happened to her text message from last night why did you delete it. That makes me think you are hiding things from me. He said he just didn't want to upset me and what was the big deal he never responded LIE 2....what an idiot!

It is so hard not to just lose it and say yes you did reply!!! But I really am setting him up for his trip. Won't the last laugh be on me if he doesn't text her LOL


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

jelly_bean said:


> He obviously underestimates me or overestimates himself LOL
> 
> I do try to give him a chance to be honest once in awhile just to see how much of a lying piece of well you know what he is. Like today I told him I checked his phone and noticed she texted him in the middle of the night again. I asked if he texted her back, he said no LIE 1 he did. He gave me his phone to fix an issue and I said hey what happened to her text message from last night why did you delete it. That makes me think you are hiding things from me. He said he just didn't want to upset me and what was the big deal he never responded LIE 2....what an idiot!
> 
> It is so hard not to just lose it and say yes you did reply!!! But I really am setting him up for his trip. Won't the last laugh be on me if he doesn't text her LOL


You're on the right track. You'll be fine. Good luck.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You sure she isn't going for Amy of the trip?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I must admit it...I love this new info: 

"He will not be a sane and normal man when I leave, our therapist already warned me on that one so I better have the loose ends all tied up cause he already told me if I leave he plans on making my life a living hell (X2B told me the same thing...Jeez). Did you know that most spouses that are left are usually angry for about half the time you are married?" 

Apparently this is true, he was told by the pediatrician to seek "help"....That angered him...

So he will be an even bigger azzhole for 8-11 years. I guess missy will get some of her own medicine. :smthumbup:


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> You sure she isn't going for Amy of the trip?


Yep, cause the "BEST" part of this is I get to be the "boss" while he is gone and work with her everyday. YEAH! Can't wait!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have the new rules ready to enact on the first day?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Do I hear a long overdue staff meeting in the air?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Absolutely! New, typed and printed rules for EVERYONE and accountability meetings set up for one month from now. Every employee will get a review, and a followup one if things are discovered that have to be handled. That's how real businesses work.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

*IF* you have truly made your mind up to divorce him, then that's a different story. Whatever you have to do to protect your finances, you should do. If that means not firing her, fine. If that means biding your time, okay.

But to me, the only decision in exposing her to her husband - is when; not if.


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## FRANC (Mar 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Absolutely! New, typed and printed rules for EVERYONE and accountability meetings set up for one month from now. Every employee will get a review, and a followup one if things are discovered that have to be handled. That's how real businesses work.


You should include something about zero tolerance for innapropriate sexual or non-sexual relationships between ANYONE in the business who aren't engaged or married or openly in a relationship. Firing is the consequence. That includes texting in an innapropriate manner.

Tell him the rules apply to him too.

So you know you will have them breaking those rules as soon as you have them printed out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Perfect.


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