# Hand guns



## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

So today I passed my conceal and carry class, now have to wait to get license back from OSBI.

After my crazy ex and how crazy the world is, I decided that I wanted to be able to protect myself when my husband goes out of town or I go out of town.

Nothing really to this post, just wanted to say it as I have not told anyone I was doing this. Just feel with so many mixed feelings about guns did not want to tell my friends, my H does know of course he has been right there with me while I did this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

congrats, be careful.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Good for you for being proactive. Relying on police response time in an emergency could mean the loss of your life. I am glad you are able to protect yourself and others should the necessity arise. I know people who carry all the time. I'd rather be with them if some lunatic starts shooting up a place.



Lostme said:


> So today I passed my conceal and carry class, not have to wait to get license back from OSBI.
> 
> After my crazy ex and how crazy the world is, I decided that I wanted to be able to protect myself when my husband goes out of town or I go out of town.
> 
> Nothing really to this post, just wanted to say it as I have not told anyone I was doing this. Just feel with so many mixed feelings about guns did not want to tell my friends, my H does know of course he has been right there with me while I did this.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

I really believe the statement that "the police are only minutes away when seconds count". Glad you did it. I wish I could get my wife to do it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Thank you, it took me a lot of thought before I decided. I had a great instructor whose wife is an avid shooter and she invited me to join their monthly ladies night, where her husband( the instructor) is also there and gives you free advice for you to become more confident in handling you gun.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Hope you are packing a desert eagle...


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

Lostme said:


> So today I passed my conceal and carry class, now have to wait to get license back from OSBI.
> 
> After my crazy ex and how crazy the world is, I decided that I wanted to be able to protect myself when my husband goes out of town or I go out of town.
> 
> Nothing really to this post, just wanted to say it as I have not told anyone I was doing this. Just feel with so many mixed feelings about guns did not want to tell my friends, my H does know of course he has been right there with me while I did this.


Good for you!! I don't know you, but I'm proud of you!


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

giddiot said:


> i really believe the statement that "the police are only minutes away when seconds count". Glad you did it. I wish i could get my wife to do it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my ipad using tapatalk


this!!!!


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

prunus said:


> Good for you!! I don't know you, but I'm proud of you!



Thank you!!!


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

My daughter and I have had our carry permits for over a year; we were going to a shooting range every week but she had surgery on her wrist and we had to stop for a while. We need to start back, now that she can shoot again. We got rather good when we were able to practice on a regular basis.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

3 round bursts.

Center of mass.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> 3 round bursts.
> 
> Center of mass.


Also, select your final carry as the one you can hit with... an over-sized caliber is worthless if you cannot hit what you point it at with three successive shots and learn to forget the sights... your pointy finger is your best sight and your weapon is never displayed unless you are fully prepared to use it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Lostme said:


> Nothing really to this post, just wanted to say it as I have not told anyone I was doing this. Just feel with so many mixed feelings about guns did not want to tell my friends, my H does know of course he has been right there with me while I did this.


As an emerging Buddhist, my CCW carries some conflict with my "learning to be peaceful in all things" approach, therefore I have spent thousands of rounds on being very accurate with shoulder and knee joints on moving 3/4 silhouettes , but center mass is guaranteed when the first few downrange do not convince that on the ground and unable to move is best to keep life intact.

I have carried the same 9mm for 22 years... know your weapon.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Sounds great! Guns are a normal thing where I live. I actually do not have my conceal and carry, but it seems like everybody else does around me. I may go for it at some point.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Congratulations. What will you be packing?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Congratulations. What will you be packing?


I have 2 guns that I have been training with the past few months before I took my test they are RM380 and 38 Special.

I tested with the instructors 9mm, loved the way it felt in my hands so got the new Springfield 9mm after testing and took it to the range last night( love this gun) So the 9mm will be the gun I will carry, and the others will be in strategic places in my home just in case.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I should add that I don't have children, and in the event that my friends and their kids come over they will be locked in our safe.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Sounds like you have thought thru everything. Congrats on taking responsibility for your own safety.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Lostme said:


> I have 2 guns that I have been training with the past few months before I took my test they are RM380 and 38 Special.
> 
> I tested with the instructors 9mm, loved the way it felt in my hands so got the new Springfield 9mm after testing and took it to the range last night( love this gun) So the 9mm will be the gun I will carry, and the others will be in strategic places in my home just in case.


The .380 is smaller than the 9mm but the inherent shorter barrel length with the .380 line will create more recoil making your second and third shot placement more difficult to reattain.

I was with friends and watching them doing rapid fire exercises with backup level weapons and they teased me about my Ruger SR22 that I will carry at times when compact matters due to clothing. I asked one to load their magazine with the basic load (Ruger LCP), and place it in their back holster and I'd do the same with mine. We did side by side shooting on a pull, cycle, and shoot and he had 1 off center, 3 to the outside-center, and one off the target somewhere. All 10 of my .22 were in a 6" center.

I said let's do it again left handed so we loaded up and proceeded again... 9 of mine were in a 9" center, one to the outside, he had one outside and 5 never hit the paper on the silhouette.

We laughed and it was mentioned that it would probably take all 10 of mine to stop someone, but when it was mentioned how painful being hit so many times would feel there was some thought to it.

Good for you that you have settled quickly lostme... now build the confidence so that if you ever do have to defend yourself or others, it will come naturally.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

As a canuck, this thread is is truly an eye opener.

True story:

Back in my twenties I worked for a couple of summers at a mine on the Northwest coast of BC, right next to Alaska. In fact you had to drive through Hyder AK and back into Canada to get to it because that was the only way the terrain would permit road access.

I stopped one night at a general store in Hyder that rented videos to take a few back up to camp. The guy behind the counter looked like a cast member off of HEE-HAW (yah, I know I'm dating myself) except that he was wearing an automatic handgun strapped prominently on his waist. 

Being something you don't ever see in Canada, I stared at it a moment and commented "Nice gun"

He glanced down at it, then back up at me and said "Yah, nice action but not too effective. It's only a 9mm. Gives'em a 35% chance. Wish it was a .45"

I said "Why?"

" 'cause it only gives'em a 14% chance"

Confused, I asked "Who's 'them? What chance?"

He looked at me like I was a little touched and said "Any one you need to take down. You hit'em in the kill zone with a 9mm and they've got a 35% chance of still being able to come at you. Hit'em with .45 though and it's only 14. They're going down and they are NOT getting back up"

I said "The movies will be back on time."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lostme said:


> I have 2 guns that I have been training with the past few months before I took my test they are RM380 and 38 Special.
> 
> I tested with the instructors 9mm, loved the way it felt in my hands so got the new Springfield 9mm after testing and took it to the range last night( love this gun) So the 9mm will be the gun I will carry, and the others will be in strategic places in my home just in case.


The 9mm is good for a light powered round. To offset it's lackluster ballistics, make sure you load it with high quality defensive ammo: Winchester Silvertips or Ranger Ts (Black Talons), Federal Hi-Shocks or Hydra-Shocks, Glaser Safety Slugs, and Speer Gold Dots are all good dependable rounds. Test them out, see which fire the best for you and which feed without jamming or stove piping. Keep your wrist stiff. 

I like the 9mm for target shooting. I have a very expensive 9mm that only comes out of my safe maybe once every three years, because it is a very rare pistol. 

As you get more proficient and comfortable with shooting, I recommend you move up the power scale to a .40 S&W or .45 ACP for your primary carry. Women do exceptionally well with any of the Colt 1911 .45 clones. Way better than me. I can't shoot that pistol to save my life.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I've heard the .45 stopping power argument for decades, in and out of military.

I've carried this weapon for 22 years and it's a favorite of many for many reasons...

As for stopping ability, I think your percentages may not play out... there were a lot of LEO that have sadly lost their lives due to smaller calibers, seems stopping power was enough in the wrong hands.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/tabl..._firearm_and_size_of_ammunition_2004-2013.xls

But then any discussion past this might be better in another thread.

lostme... carry what you can shoot accurately, let that be the deciding factor in any choice.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Interesting society we live in where we congratulate people for carrying weapons.

I wish you luck and I hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands (mostly children).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I don't have the concealed carry permit and now my state doesn't require a permit to carry concealed. Most people I know who have one got the permit to save time when buying guns. Now having said all that, My guns are not really concealable. I don't own any handguns. But I did spend a few hours Saturday cleaning guns.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Interesting society we live in where we congratulate people for carrying weapons.
> 
> I wish you luck and I hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands (mostly children).



I believe we were congratulating the OP for not being afraid to defend herself if needed and learning a means to do so if required in the safest manner possible, training.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Herschel said:


> Interesting society we live in where we congratulate people for carrying weapons.
> 
> I wish you luck and I hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands (mostly children).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the society we now live in, one does need to be able to protect themselves. If I'm home alone and someone breaks into my house to rob and rape me I want to be able to defend myself. If I'm traveling alone and my vehicle breaks down, and some crazy pulls over to do something to me I want to protect myself.

I have no children, and my friends that do rarely come over with theirs and when they do I have been trained on the safety precautions to take during their visit.

I thought long and hard, and talked to other women who carry before I decided this was right for me. I have trained for quite a few months before I took the test to conceal and carry, and I will also be having continued training.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Lostme said:


> In the society we now live in, one does need to be able to protect themselves. If I'm home alone and someone breaks into my house to rob and rape me I want to be able to defend myself. If I'm traveling alone and my vehicle breaks down, and some crazy pulls over to do something to me I want to protect myself.


I am in no position regarding telling you how to make yourself feel safe. I am talking about overall, the ideologies associated with carrying a weapon designed to kill. Given that, society, in terms of violent crimes, is much lower than it has been in the past. It is rare for anyone to break I to a house and rape anyone. It's also extremely rare that a rapist just happens to drive by you whilst your car is broken down. It is concerning to me how much of a fearful society we live in. Odds are that you will never need to use the gun (a good thing) and odds are that if a gun is used, it is often a negative consequence rather than a positive one. All I am saying is keep yourself safe from yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I honestly hope I don't have to ever use it either. But I will be self protected if I need to.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Most people's houses never burn down--but you should still carry fire insurance.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

You mentioned travel. Make sure you know the laws of the states you travel through. They vary,some GREATLY. Hopefully that will be remedied soon with national reciprocity. 
As far as 9mm or .45 (ford or Chevy) , I like both ,but the most efficient weapon is the one you will carry. Congratulations on taking responsibility for your own well being.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Most people's houses never burn down--but you should still carry fire insurance.


Last time I checked, fire insurance never killed a kid. Talk about false equivalency.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Last time I checked, fire insurance never killed a kid. Talk about false equivalency.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unless the child playing with matches caught the policy on fire and burned down the house with the child inside.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You mentioned travel. Make sure you know the laws of the states you travel through. They vary,some GREATLY. Hopefully that will be remedied soon with national reciprocity.
> As far as 9mm or .45 (ford or Chevy) , I like both ,but the most efficient weapon is the one you will carry. Congratulations on taking responsibility for your own well being.


I only travel to different parts of my state either overnight or a couple of days.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Interesting society we live in where we congratulate people for carrying weapons.
> 
> I wish you luck and I hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands (mostly children).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck with your car. I hope nobody steals it and runs a kid over with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

As a woman who shoots, I suggest just carrying whatever size and/or caliber feels most comfortable to you. A handgun that's unpleasant to shoot, or that feels clumsy or over/undersized in your hands is one you will find reasons not to practice with as much. And if you're going to carry, you need to be practicing. Whatever fits your hand and is comfortable to shoot will be the best choice for you.

For home protection, I actually prefer a shotgun. My favorite upland bird gun actually does double duty as my beside-the-bed gun.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Good luck with your car. I hope nobody steals it and runs a kid over with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More false equivalency. I NEED a car to go places. The point of a car is to move, not to kill. Even if I had a jet pack, while is is dangerous, the point is to be able to save people falling off of waterfalls and **** like that. 

The point of a gun is to kill. Even with protection, it is to kill the other person. And to open beer cans. Homer taught me that.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Herschel said:


> More false equivalency. I NEED a car to go places. The point of a car is to move, not to kill. Even if I had a jet pack, while is is dangerous, the point is to be able to save people falling off of waterfalls and **** like that.
> 
> The point of a gun is to kill. Even with protection, it is to kill the other person. And to open beer cans. Homer taught me that.


Rights are not predicated on need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Rights are not predicated on need.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who said anything about rights?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Something I heard in the dog-whistle.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

:scratchhead:


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

How is your hand to hand combat training? Don't let the concealed weapon lull you into a false sense of security. It is only effective if you have the time to draw it and nerve to use it. In the event that you actually have time to draw and train it before an attacker closes the physical distance, any split second of hesitation to fire can render it useless.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Something I heard in the dog-whistle.


I've never heard that phrase before... I may use that at work sometime but in a little different sentence structure.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

As others have said, carry what you are comfortable with. 

...and thank you for putting in the time and energy to do this the correct way. That training- plus putting thousands of rounds down range- makes you a safer gun owner.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> How is your hand to hand combat training? Don't let the concealed weapon lull you into a false sense of security. It is only effective if you have the time to draw it and nerve to use it. In the event that you actually have time to draw and train it before an attacker closes the physical distance, any split second of hesitation to fire can render it useless.


This:iagree:

Not to say that it never happens and maybe someone can drag up stats to prove me wrong, but I don't believe most rapes or assaults occur at gun point. Unless there's more than one attacker and they're tag teaming, at some point a single assailant's hands are going to be busy.

That said, I get it. In a land where pretty much everyone is armed, it's probably a good idea to be part of the in crowd and learn how to use it as well.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Herschel said:


> More false equivalency. I NEED a car to go places. The point of a car is to move, not to kill. Even if I had a jet pack, while is is dangerous, the point is to be able to save people falling off of waterfalls and **** like that.
> 
> The point of a gun is to kill. Even with protection, it is to kill the other person. And to open beer cans. Homer taught me that.


You don't NEED a car. Take a cab/bus. Walk. Ride a bicycle. More than 4 million people live in NYC without owning a car.

I own guns and not one has ever killed anything. I guess I'm doing it wrong.

OP: Glad you are taking the steps you need to protect yourself. Hope you never need to.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

a point is, we are obligated to keep our selves and our families safe. 
this is age old tradition going back to the stone age, and in many parts of the world, and some neighborhoods the world is as dangerous now as then.

how we do this is a matter of personal choice. some choose guns, some choose home alarm systems, a baseball bat, knives, who knows.
as a bizarre aside, i knew of a 1%er biker who would keep a giant 18" adjustable wrench strapped to his handlebars in case of trouble.
some choose nothing. but choosing nothing is a choice also (i stoled that from rush, 'freewill').
for those who live in 'safe' neighborhoods, the chances of being attacked are slim and maybe doing nothing is a wise choice.

whatever it is you want to choose to protect your home and persons, choose wisely, and for heaven sake don't depend on the cops.
they are not your body guards. i have the utmost respect for cops (and thank God for them), but they are under no legal obligation to protect you personally.
and by the time they respond to an imminent threat, 90% of the time or more, it's too late.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> You don't NEED a car.  Take a cab/bus. Walk. Ride a bicycle. More than 4 million people live in NYC without owning a car.
> 
> I own guns and not one has ever killed anything. I guess I'm doing it wrong.
> 
> OP: Glad you are taking the steps you need to protect yourself. Hope you never need to.


Lol with I don't need a car. Ok, you don't need a house. Millions of people sleep outside, in caves or on park benches. You don't need a lot of stuff, but you draw an equivalent to a car with a gun is absurd and ONLY the people who are groupthink will agree with you because that is what they must do.

I never said that owning a gun means you will kill anything. Just that is the purpose of it. Am I wrong?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Lol with I don't need a car. Ok, you don't need a house. Millions of people sleep outside, in caves or on park benches. You don't need a lot of stuff, but you draw an equivalent to a car with a gun is absurd and ONLY the people who are groupthink will agree with you because that is what they must do.
> 
> I never said that owning a gun means you will kill anything. Just that is the purpose of it. Am I wrong?


your point is mostly valid, but not 100% accurate. guns are not _ just_ for killing. they are used extensively (and probably way more than 50% in this country)
for recreation, i.e. plinking, target shooting, collecting. many people do not ever intend to use a gun for killing anything.
some people only hunt, and if they follow the hunters creed, they scavenge everything from that animal that's edible and feed their families.
true enough; guns _primary_ intended design purpose is to kill.

as for self defense, i am reminded of Leon Trosky's words "you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you".


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

For some reason the argument always comes to a "I never said" statement. 
You did imply. But not to rehash 400 + pages of that, the answer to Herschel's question is, Yes, you are wrong.
The purpose of a hand gun is not to kill the other person. If that was it's purpose it would be a sniper rifle. A handgun is only good for close quarters defense and intimidation.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Lol with I don't need a car. Ok, you don't need a house. Millions of people sleep outside, in caves or on park benches. You don't need a lot of stuff, but you draw an equivalent to a car with a gun is absurd and ONLY the people who are groupthink will agree with you because that is what they must do.
> 
> I never said that owning a gun means you will kill anything. Just that is the purpose of it. Am I wrong?


Show me where I said the two are equivalent. Step away from your narrative and read the words.

You asserted that you NEED a car, clearly implying that the OP does not need a gun, hence the distinction. You decided you need a car because it allows you to live the lifestyle you have chosen. Why is it that others have to be discouraged from making similar decisions about their own lives?

How do you know her situation or what she needs? Why does she have to have a need in the first place?

You wrote that the purpose of a gun is to kill another person. If the purpose of a gun is to kill another person and there are 
300 million guns in the US, shouldn't we all be dead?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> your point is mostly valid, but not 100% accurate. guns are not _ just_ for killing. they are used extensively (and probably way more than 50% in this country)
> for recreation, i.e. plinking, target shooting, collecting. many people do not ever intend to use a gun for killing anything.
> some people only hunt, and if they follow the hunters creed, they scavenge everything from that animal that's edible and feed their families.
> true enough; guns _primary_ intended design purpose is to kill.
> ...


Obviously I am not talking about recreational purposes and/or hunting. I mean, I own a gun for protection...which means, if I use it, I shoot to kill.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> Show me where I said the two are equivalent. Step away from your narrative and read the words.
> 
> You asserted that you NEED a car, clearly implying that the OP does not need a gun, hence the distinction. You decided you need a car because it allows you to live the lifestyle you have chosen. Why is it that others have to be discouraged from making similar decisions about their own lives?
> 
> ...


Actually, I was not implying that at all. I didn't say, I need a car. I said, I need a car to go places. I guess I should have said, the point of a car is to go places. The point of a gun is to kill. Even though cars can kill, that isn't the intent of them.

You drew it to mean that I was talking about what she needs, and that is incorrect. If it is due to my wording, I apologize. If it's due to you making assumptions, then I'll respectfully accept your apology.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> For some reason the argument always comes to a "I never said" statement.
> You did imply. But not to rehash 400 + pages of that, the answer to Herschel's question is, Yes, you are wrong.
> The purpose of a hand gun is not to kill the other person. If that was it's purpose it would be a sniper rifle. A handgun is only good for close quarters defense and intimidation.


I think you are misconstruing what purpose and intent are.



> pur·pose
> ˈpərpəs/Submit
> noun
> 1.
> the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.





> in·ten·tion
> inˈten(t)SH(ə)n/
> noun
> 1.
> a thing intended; an aim or plan.


See, a gun's purpose and your intention can be two different things *see Homer Simpson*. However, guns were created to kill. That's what they are for. Maybe some use them for other purposes, like shooting targets, putting holes in sheet metal or making people dance. But that isn't what the word purpose was for.

So, I guess you are wrong. Mea culpa in T minus 3...2...1...yeah, never.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> You don't NEED a car. Take a cab/bus. Walk. Ride a bicycle. More than 4 million people live in NYC without owning a car.
> 
> I own guns and not one has ever killed anything. I guess I'm doing it wrong.
> 
> OP: Glad you are taking the steps you need to protect yourself. Hope you never need to.


I have seven rifles and seven handguns and all have killed something. My firearms double as hunting/self defense. 

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> For some reason the argument always comes to a "I never said" statement.
> You did imply. But not to rehash 400 + pages of that, the answer to Herschel's question is, Yes, you are wrong.
> The purpose of a hand gun is not to kill the other person. If that was it's purpose it would be a sniper rifle. A handgun is only good for close quarters defense and intimidation.


Correct. In a battle situation, the battle rifle is always the primary weapon - to kill the enemy while afar off. Followed by shotgun/sub-machine gun and lastly a handgun. Handguns were solely used as backup weapons or weapons of last resort, followed by a Ka-Bar or bayonet as the last-last resort weapon. 

My primary home defense weapon is my Mossberg 500 shotgun, seconded by my Marlin .44 Magnum lever action rifle. I pack my .357 wheel-gun every day in my truck, but it is only there to dissuade carjackers.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Herschel said:


> Mea culpa in T minus 3...2...1...yeah, never.


We know that you will never admit fault, quod erat demonstrandum.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> a point is, we are obligated to keep our selves and our families safe.
> this is age old tradition going back to the stone age, and in many parts of the world, and some neighborhoods the world is as dangerous now as then.
> 
> how we do this is a matter of personal choice. some choose guns, some choose home alarm systems, a baseball bat, knives, who knows.
> ...


My dad told me this but I'm not sure where he got it from. He said (paraphrasing) that "In Canada, the frontier *always* expanded in step with the law. You DID NOT fvck with the Mounties and they always got their man. In the States, the frontier expanded with the gun. Whoever had the most, was quickest and most willing to use them *was* the law. At least until the government got there"

The bolded bit in your quote jorejene is really interesting to me. I think it confirms his point and and is something that needs to come up more often in gun control debates where stats here in Canada are smugly compared with those in the States.

It can't be a fair comparison because despite some similarities, at the core we are two fundamentally different cultures. 

I own handguns but do not even consider them as tools of self defense. Under the law, the only place that I can legally use them is at a licensed range. When they're at home they must have trigger locks on them and be secured (read 'in a safe'). So not much good for that. Moreover, if I shoot someone at all, let alone with a sidearm, I better have a provably damn good reason, and even then I will probably be charged with a weapons offence if not manslaughter. 

The reality here is that the cops are the only ones legally allowed to use lethal force. But even they need a damn good reason just to draw their weapon let alone fire it. And they're still looking at a week of paper work while an investigation is conducted.

We love our Mounties such that they are a part of our national identity. They stand for the most part entirely outside of politics and we hold huge respect at how capable they are in upholding the rule of law. More importantly on the last point, so do the crooks. And if they're still stupid enough to pull a gun, then Darwin's in play because they're obviously to stupid to understand that the police will fire at least three warning rounds. Directly at their heads.

Not saying it's any better here. Just really really different.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator notice*

Please stop with the threadjacks.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@Herschel , @Lostme made the choice to educate herself in the use of a handgun to protect herself. She made that choice freely and went about it the right way. If you are so adamantly against guns *don't get one*. No one will make you and no one is trying to convince you to get one if you don't want one. On that note, no one is giving any regard to your ridiculous protestations except those who already agree with you. Leave it be, you won't ever change it, here in the US.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I am in no position regarding telling you how to make yourself feel safe. I am talking about overall, the ideologies associated with carrying a weapon designed to kill. Given that, society, in terms of violent crimes, is much lower than it has been in the past. It is rare for anyone to break I to a house and rape anyone. It's also extremely rare that a rapist just happens to drive by you whilst your car is broken down. It is concerning to me how much of a fearful society we live in. Odds are that you will never need to use the gun (a good thing) and odds are that if a gun is used, it is often a negative consequence rather than a positive one. All I am saying is keep yourself safe from yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only has to happen once. Being someone who basically walked in on someone close to them being rapped I tell you when that happens all the pontificating ends.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

You can't go to a mall, movies, restaurant, get gas, grocery shop or walk down the street now and days with some idiot with a gun wanting to shoot people up. 

I will be [email protected] if I sit and do nothing to protect myself.

I do not care if a person likes guns or not, I refuse to be a victim if I do not have to be this is how I have chosen to protect myself. 

I have no guilt for making this choice for me, I DO NOT HAVE KIDS in my home to get the guns and I have been trained on locking them up when any of my friends bring their kids over which is rarely. 

I have been properly trained and continue that training 3 times a week. I did not just run out and buy a gun because I can, this was not a decision I took lightly but one I feel the safest with for myself.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Lostme said:


> You can't go to a mall, movies, restaurant, get gas, grocery shop or walk down the street now and days with some idiot with a gun wanting to shoot people up.


 Gun crime is actually down,way down. The mainstream media is making it appear the opposite to try to achieve their agenda of gun control, but it's false. That being said your odds of being a victim are less than they have been in decades,but it is a great thing that you have taken charge of your own protection. It's a fools errand to think someone would, much less count on someone to do it for you. SCOTUS has even ruled that is not the job of the police.They clean up the bodies and try to catch the perpetrator, there's not much in that for the victim if they don't try to protect themselves.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Herschel said:


> More false equivalency. I NEED a car to go places. The point of a car is to move, not to kill. Even if I had a jet pack, while is is dangerous, the point is to be able to save people falling off of waterfalls and **** like that.
> 
> The point of a gun is to kill. Even with protection, it is to kill the other person. *And to open beer cans*. Homer taught me that.


I would never shoot a hole in my beer cans.

You can die from excess beer loss.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

With my personal location (very low crime area) and situation, (generally always with DH) I don't believe I am going to have to end up needing to carry, but that could change and I wouldn't hesitate to get my permit at that time. My DH is slowly teaching me gun safety and how to shoot. I'm still a newbie. We are members of Izaak Walton, so I am happy to have a outdoor range easily accessible to me, and a spouse, brother in law and father in law with a tremendous amount of experience to help me learn. 

I am happy that you are doing what you feel is right for your situation and safety. I hope you never need to use it...don't we all!


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Lostme said:


> You can't go to a mall, movies, restaurant, get gas, grocery shop or walk down the street now and days with some idiot with a gun wanting to shoot people up.


Yes, yes you can.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> I would never shoot a hole in my beer cans.
> 
> You can die from excess beer loss.


I was charged by an enraged beer can once. Blew the fvck out of him before he could hurt me or my companion.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> I was charged by an enraged beer can once. Blew the fvck out of him before he could hurt me or my companion.


Before or after the fvck? -and- was that before of after your lady _*]Bud*_ companion got *Weiser*?

I believe you about the enraged beer. After falling down a cliff with an unopened beer in my hand it exploded with anger when it struck a rock near the bottom. Talk about flipping a Tab. Damn thing had rabies, foamed at the mouth and puked all over my birthday suit.

I believe I got the beer from you. Is this your brand?









Thirsty Beaver


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@Lostme

Congratulations.

I would like to have a gun and learn how to operate it correctly, just like you have done.

My husband would be so angry though; so I don't think it's ever going to happen.

But, well done; you've gone about this in such a responsible and mature way.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Before or after the fvck? -and- was that before of after your lady _*]Bud*_ companion got *Weiser*?
> 
> I believe you about the enraged beer. After falling down a cliff with an unopened beer in my hand it exploded with anger when it struck a rock near the bottom. Talk about flipping a Tab. Damn thing had rabies, foamed at the mouth and puked all over my birthday suit.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the one. How did you know?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Lostme
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> ...


Thank you. We live in a pretty nice neighborhood, and I walk around here a lot for exercise and to clear my head a while back there was a van canvassing our neighborhood attempting to get women in it. Another guy in a car following women as they walked, that's when my H mentioned to me getting a gun to protect myself but I told him I had to think about it first. So after much thought and then a women getting robbed a mile away from us leaving a store, I decided I needed to be proactive in protecting myself.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Always keep in the very front of your mind that a gun is no substitute for good old common sense. Make wise decisions to try and keep yourself out of places and situations where a gun would be needed in the first place. Not criticizing, downplaying, or questioning one's right to carry, but I can't stress the importance of not letting a gun lull anyone into any sort of false sense of security.


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