# Help and advice needed



## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

My story is so complicated that it could show up in all the topics on this site but since all has come to a head with the discovery of my wife's EA that was headed toward a PA I will share the story here. We have been married 18 years. I raised two of her kids and we have two at home that are ours. Nine years ago we bought a business and I will admit that it became the top priority in my life. We began to argue a lot and I said many mean things to her that were never meant but were said in anger. BUT, I have always been there for her and supported her in the things she wanted. But I guess I was not there for her emotionally...too busy with everything else in life and did not feed our relationship or take care of it enough. I knew we were having marital problems but thought these were NORMAL marital issues. The business has been in trouble for three years now and I finally have let go of trying to make it work. I was ready to start focusing on us again because I felt I finally could when I found out that she had been in a EA since June (I found all this out last week). This past Monday I found that she was planning on meeting him at a hotel. BTW this is the second EA she has had, the first ended some years ago. Now, she has said she has no feelings for me or is not sure if does and that she has feelings for the OP or she thinks she does. She is not sure. I have committed to trying to fix things but she is not sure she can. I really don't know what to do here? Am I just out of luck? Do I wait until she decides whether she wants to be committed to the relationship again? My heart is broken. The one person I ALWAYS thought would be there through thick and thin has betrayed me. Obviously there are more details to our life together than I have outlined and I can explain as this thread grows. I really want our marriage to work out but am I fooling myself here?
Thanks!


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

She has betrayed you twice probably because you didn't make her do the heavy lifting the first time. So now she is in her second EA and likely feels that she is in control, not you. And from where I sit, she is.

I hope other have some good ideas to help you. I don't, because I also had an EA. But I'm not in control, my wife is.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

thanks for that. I agree that she is in control and I need to have her do some of the work too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What have you done so far? Have you been checking out the other threads here?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Stop blaming yourself, fisrt of all.. Your wife is an adult and had myriad options to deal with any dissatisfaction or unment need other than cheating. I think a high % of betrayed spouses cling to this idea that their deficiencies caused this.
Ah, as far as I know, my marriage vows did not include an exception for when I felt dissatisfied. Did yours?


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Is OM married? If so, expose it to her. I hear she does not have feelings for you now, but does she want to D or R? You have to tell her there is no middle ground here.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks to all. Yes, she did have a bunch of options and I have said that to her. I told her that the vows included a better and WORSE part and that I always thought our problems could be worked out. I mean, I have to agree with her that she tried to get my attention but the weight of the business, especially when things went south, really consumed me. I was just trying to feed my family. The OM is married and her first response was "please don't contact him I don't want to ruin his family." I told she already had. I have not contacted him yet, but still hold that card. And if I contact anyone it will be his wife...she needs to protect herself as well. As far as what I have done so far? I have tried to be reasonable about this (but remember I am in emotional shock so what I think is reasonable may not actually be reasonable). We talk. We talk a lot and I believe that we are doing so honestly. She says she does not know if she wants D or R and she is not ready to quit the EA, which I told her has to happen if we have any chance at all. I told her we need to exchange passwords to email, FB, and phones as a sign of trust. She really got angry at that and said I had no right to her private business. I told her I agreed but that there is a difference between privacy and secrecy (yes, I have been reading the other threads here). She has said she will go to a councilor but she failed to call one yesterday because "things were just to crazy all day." Um, yeah, she sits at home and tries to write her book. Last night at a meeting of an association I founded I announced that I may be moving in December and would need to step down. I think that may have shocked her a bit even though I told her I was thinking about it. Why December? Because I have many work-related things to finish before I can turn operation of the company over to someone else. If I could do it sooner I would. Today I go out of town for work and will be gone until Monday or Tuesday. I am not going to contact her at all. She can contact me and I will decide to answer or not. And that's the story so far...


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

You NEED to tell his wife. Don't hold it as a card.
Your wife is scared that you exposing to the OMW will drive a wedge between her and the OM - not because she really cares about his family. If that were the case would she be in a EA anyway?
I know it's hard. But expose, don't tell your wife, and when she tries to blame you mention that she and the OM had already ruined his family long before you did.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you read the threads on here it is always advised to contact the other mans wife. Most of all it is because she deserves to know that her husband is in an affair. Secondly, it is the best way to bring your wife and the OM back to reality.

Where did you two come up with the idea that there is privacy in marriage? The whole point of marriage is that two people become one. Demand full access to all passwords phones computers emails etc.

Put a VAR in her car and wherever she may try to use her phone when you are not around. 

No way I would leave town without outing them to OM"s wife. Stop it before they meet if they haven't already.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Chapparal! One thing is, and this is of course her side of the story so I don't know how true it is, she claims that the OM does not know that she has feelings for him and that he has never expressed feelings for her. So maybe this is a one way EA, I am not sure. As far as them meeting while I am away...he lives in another state and it would be an 8 or 9 hour drive for him. And she will be watching our two kids while I am away. I know about keyloggers (though I have no idea how to install one) but I am not familiar with a VAR? Not sure at this point I need to know the details of the relationship...I have already caught her in it. She admits it. She says she is not ready to quit and that she will do it on her terms not mine. As far as privacy in marriage, one of the stickys I read here advises that there needs to be some privacy in a marriage but that there is a big difference between that (say keeping a personal journal) and secrecy (like texting in secret). Of course these days she texts right in front of me...but still says its her GF she is talking to. She claims she doesn't know what she wants and that the EA could have been with anyone, not anything special about this guy...yet she is falling or has fallen for him. I told her that I feel like she is stringing me along (and she is) and that I am simply her back-up plan. She really got angry at that. I am trying to treat this gently because if she gets angry or we fight then the lines of communication will be severed.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Thanks Chapparal! One thing is, and this is of course her side of the story so I don't know how true it is, she claims that the OM does not know that she has feelings for him and that he has never expressed feelings for her. So maybe this is a one way EA, I am not sure. As far as them meeting while I am away...he lives in another state and it would be an 8 or 9 hour drive for him. And she will be watching our two kids while I am away. I know about keyloggers (though I have no idea how to install one) but I am not familiar with a VAR? Not sure at this point I need to know the details of the relationship...I have already caught her in it. She admits it. She says she is not ready to quit and that she will do it on her terms not mine. As far as privacy in marriage, one of the stickys I read here advises that there needs to be some privacy in a marriage but that there is a big difference between that (say keeping a personal journal) and secrecy (like texting in secret). Of course these days she texts right in front of me...but still says its her GF she is talking to. She claims she doesn't know what she wants and that the EA could have been with anyone, not anything special about this guy...yet she is falling or has fallen for him. I told her that I feel like she is stringing me along (and she is) and that I am simply her back-up plan. She really got angry at that. I am trying to treat this gently because if she gets angry or we fight then the lines of communication will be severed.


As others always say, you can't believe any thing that comes out of their mouth. Find out the text/phone count to the OM, that will tell you how involved he is.

VAR small voice activated recorder you can buy cheap at Best Buy, Walmart etc. Stick one under the seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. If she's using her phone that's where cheaters think they have complete privacy.

As you will see on other threads, an 8 hour drive and taking care of two kids is nothing to two cheaters. With you being away it is no problem at all. How does she know the other man. What do you KNOW about him. 

Guessing you are only looking at the tip of an iceberg but hope to God I am wrong.

KNUTWILLIE lost his wife over the internet to a used car salesmann online. North Carolina to New Orleans and several kids. Of course he pretty much did everything wrong.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife is a cheater. That means she is also a liar. 

What she is doing is engaging you in negotiation and lies to protect her ongoing affair. Like the addict she is, she will do and say whatever she needs to.

For you marriage to continue the first and most important thing is for the affair to end. The best way to end it, since she won't, is to expose it. Tell the OMW - give no warning, don't hesitate, just do it. 

That will give you and ally in the war, and it will help get the OM out of the equation.

You wife will me over the top angry at you. This is ok and normal. She is reacting and lashing out at the person who is taking away her drug.

When she gets clean and sober she will realize and acknowledge what you did was the right thing. This is lesson learned here over and over again from people who have done it.

Do not accept the "I need time to figure myself out". " I need a break", "I just want to be friends with him", etc. These are nothing more than negotiations to continue her getting her affair fix.

Expose, tell her you will not enable or support her cheating, and you will only accept being in a marriage with her, not her and the OM.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

"She says she is not ready to quit and that she will do it on her terms not mine."

You have to tell her this is not going to be the way it happens. It is over now, or she must leave the house. You keep the kids, you keep the house, and she is cut off from $.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Anothe wake up call, close joint accts, credit cards etc. Are You able to get text records and phone call logs?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> "She says she is not ready to quit and that she will do it on her terms not mine."
> 
> You have to tell her this is not going to be the way it happens. It is over now, or she must leave the house. You keep the kids, you keep the house, and she is cut off from $.


Yep. What Shaggy said. Honey u are deluding yourself if u think this is an E A. They've been at hotels before together. They weren't meeting up to talk about. Cupcakes. The A doesn't end on her. Terms. Or rather....she doesn't get to dictate that. YOU NEED. TO EXPOSE THE AFFAIR TO THE OMs WIFE. Yoi must do this without any warning to ur wife or the OM. Because all that does is give them time to get their stories straight and try to downplay the affair. She is terrified of u exposing the A but nooot bcause she's afraid of upsetting the OMs wife...she knows if u expose the affair its very likely that will be the end of the affair and she can't keep sneaking off w him. Afffairs thrive in secrecy. They lose their flair once exposed. Affairs are secrets. And in faact if u don't tel...u u are helping enable and protect the affair. Pretty sick. Huh? U need to stand up and start respecting urself. She doesn't. She will though once u tell her u aren't doing this with her. Tell her in no uncertain terms: I've been thinking about what u said about not ending ur affair and only ending it on ur terms....that doesn't work for me. Either u commit to the marriage w me and end all contact with. Him or we divorce. I will not live in an open marriage. I will not lie to the children for u. I knoww I'm not perfect either and am willing to work on my wrongs...but NOT. While you're having another affair. I deserve better thaan a serial cheater for a wife." And walk away. Non negotiable. No wiggle roo. Stand ur ground and get tested for stds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh and this is her second go-round meaning its a pattern. Do you want to be with her knowing she's cheated on u more than once?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks again. I have told her that the affair must end and that she is married to me. I will inform the OMW as soon as possible. As far as how she knows him? They went to High School together many years ago...just knew each other no dating. She hooked up with him last June at an HS reunion and they have been sexting/texting ever since...or so I gather from what she tells me. I don't know how to access her phone records as it is a different phone account than mine and in her name. I cannot get to her phone, she guards it like a golden idol. In terms of the VAR it won't help. She texts 99% of the time and emails as well. She admits that there have been a few calls. Again though...do I really need the details? I know about the EA and I know she is not wanting to give it up. I think this is a discussion for AFTER she quits him? If she is still unwilling to share email passwords, phone passwords etc. then I should engage in such devices as I can to make sure it is really over? And in the end what really matters...as far as I can tell is that the EA is only a symptom of bigger problems. The EA must end if we are going to work on the problems but my eye (I think) is on the ball of helping our relationship not on the distraction (and complication) of the EA. Am I totally off the rails here?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Dude. Its not an EA only. She is fcking him. They meet at hotels = they're having sex. Get it? And nooooo...the password and phone convo doesn't happen "after" the A ends. U tell her if she's not willing to give. Those up and be transparent then u are not interested in being married to her. Put your foot down and mean it. You have no boundaries which is why she's walking allll over u. Until u draw a line in the sand a nd tell her the jig is up...u can expect this to continue. Tell her its the A or u.a d that doesn't mean she gets to decide when to end it. If she waaffles...tell her she can GTFO. You will not stay w someone who's betraying u and u won't have ur children. Around that type of behavior n u won't lie to cover her ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Jellybeans. No she has not been with him physically yet. I know that is fact. I caught her just before it became physical though. It may yet become a PA as well as EA. Unless I can get her to end it. You are of course right, I must simply say "this is how it is or adios!" And yet I live on the fear that she will say "well then adios!" and where will that have gotten us? I do NOT want to lose my wife. There is another issue as well. We still have two kids at home. The 15-year old could deal with the D (I think he could anyway) but our 9 year old has severe ADHD and needs to have what he perceives as a stable environment. This is the other reason I feel like I need to really work at the marriage because I really don't think he would deal well with a D. She and I have talked about it. Maybe if we can't have a relationship just staying together until he is able to deal with things. That idea sucks but I would be willing to do that for my son. Not sure what she thinks about it now though. At first she was right with me on the belief that he needs both mom and dad in the same house. Now, I don't think she is paying it much mind at all. I am really at my wits end here folks and I really want to thank you all for taking your time and talking this over with me. I look forward to many more thoughts from you on this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How did you discoverr her affaair? How did u find out about the last affair? Just know that right now she has no reason to stop cheating because there haven't been any consequences. She has no incentive to stop. Stand up and man up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Thanks Jellybeans. No she has not been with him physically yet. I know that is fact. I caught her just before it became physical though. It may yet become a PA as well as EA. Unless I can get her to end it. You are of course right, I must simply say "this is how it is or adios!" And yet I live on the fear that she will say "well then adios!" and where will that have gotten us? I do NOT want to lose my wife. There is another issue as well. We still have two kids at home. The 15-year old could deal with the D (I think he could anyway) but our 9 year old has severe ADHD and needs to have what he perceives as a stable environment. This is the other reason I feel like I need to really work at the marriage because I really don't think he would deal well with a D. She and I have talked about it. Maybe if we can't have a relationship just staying together until he is able to deal with things. That idea sucks but I would be willing to do that for my son. Not sure what she thinks about it now though. At first she was right with me on the belief that he needs both mom and dad in the same house. Now, I don't think she is paying it much mind at all. I am really at my wits end here folks and I really want to thank you all for taking your time and talking this over with me. I look forward to many more thoughts from you on this.


With this attitude, and I am really sorry to say it, your going to lose everything. This script has played itself out over and over and over again on these forums and with what you are doing it ALWAYS works out badly.

Yes, if you do what you are being advised to do you may lose your marriage, a marriage that right now is already lost. At this point she doesn't see you as a real man as real men do not even come close to condoning other men in their marriage. 

However,odds are, the other man is not interested in losing his family, just looking for a roll in the hay. THAT"S why you tell his wife, so she can bring him to his senses. She is probably already suspicious. Your wife will thank you in the long run for keeping her family together.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check these out:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stop finding excuses on why you can't do what needs to do be done to save your marriage.

Cards on table: she likely went PA at the reunion. So don't worry about it bring PA or not. Assume it was.

Next, you aren't going to end the family by exposing the affair. She has already ended the family by starting the affair. At this point the only thing on the table is what she will do to start the family anew.

Exposé to his wife ASAP. Your wife's fear of you doing that tells you that it will hurt her affair. Her fear should tell you that it is the thing to fo here.

As for the phone. If it was me, I'd find a way to end that phone. Are you the only source of in come! If so cat her off from $. She's using it to finance the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

How did her first marriage/relationship ended? The one with 2 kids?

Then she had an EA. Now she's in another one and wont stop.

2 or more is a pattern. That's her mindset. 

I suspect her set of values/morals are different than yours.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow you guys...so much to think about here! Drove seven hours today to the job site. Thinking about all that has been said here. You are all correct. So, how do I get the OMWs phone number? I have HIS name and the city he lives in but do not know her name. The white page listing is in his name only. I guess the thing is I wanted to let her do the RIGHT thing and quit the affair at my request (yes I know she did the WRONG thing by starting it in the first place). But I have figured out several other little lies she has told me about this as well (it was a long drive!). I also have her phone records, turns out they were on file at our business. From June 11 to June 18 alone there 779 texts, most on two days and of those 687 were to him That's over 300 per day for those days. Yes, I think her morals are very different than mine.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK: UPDATE. I hope you all are right about this. i have been trying to find OMWs number but in the meantime my wife texted to say hi and find out if I was alright. I told her no I was not. I mentioned that I was on this site (not by name of course) and that I had been advised to tell her to end the A now. I said "bottom line him or me?" She wrote back and said "working on it." I said "NO not working on it. The time is now!" After a pause of about ten minutes she wrote and said "I choose me!" I said "wrong answer, c'ya." She immediately wrote back and said "ok." A few seconds ago she said "I choose neither of you, i choose to be alone." I did not answer. She has now tried to call four times...and counting. This is REALLY killing me you guys...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Now texting me to pick up the phone...anyone out therer? I need immediate help here!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't tell her about this site. Don't mention it again. Are u on Facebook? If she is and is friends w him on there u may be able to find out his wife that way. Don't respond to her. She's doing the typical things a wayward does when the betrayed tells them to get off the fence. Let her know its non negotiable. Holy cow...almost 7pp texts to him in less than a week? She's in waaay deep. I've prob gotten twenty texts this entire week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks for being there Jellybeans! Tears are rolling hard now...can't let my employees see me this way! Unfortunately neither he nor his wife are on FB. I can PAY for a background search on him but really I think I had better save my money for what comes next...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I say don't respond right away. She's gonna come at u screaming and blaming u and trying to rationalize it away. Typical. Best advice is to respond with zero emotion. She's gonna expect u to lose it so prove her wrong. Let her go off and when she's done say "you are having an affair. I will not live in an open marriage. You've. Said you choose to be alone and I will not stand in your way but I will also not be treated like this. You are cheating and I deserve better. This is not your first affair and this doesn't work for me." Let her hoot aand holler. Stand ur ground...do noooooot back down. Its crunch time. If she smells blood or fear she will keep it up. Keep repeating to her " you are having an affair. And I deserve better."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh and dooooo not mention AT ALL. About telling the other mans wife. This is verrry important! Do not discuss that at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Just had an angry message. Basically she said she was going to have her friend help her put together an email to the OM tonight to get it to stop. But since my txt to her she is thinking she can't live like this with me either. "Can't tell him to quit texting without telling you to leave because I want to make sure I am doing this because its best for ME" Asking if I want to separate for a while. The separate text "want to separate for a while?"
Can't see through these damned tears...


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Do you see that when you stand up for yourself you change the dynamics of the relationship with her. She was manipulating you like a little puppet. You stand up for yourself and told her that you will not accept this and that you will move on and what happens: She is begging to communicate with you. Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. She has not respected you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You are in a very good position right now tho it doesn't seem that way to u. The ball is in your court now so u need to absolutely NOT back down. "I am not interested in being in an open marriage with a cheater. You are having an affair and I deserve better." End the conversation first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Won't mention telling the OMW if I can just get the $#%@ name and number.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She is continuing trying to manipulate you and stop you from standing up for yourself. If you were screwing another woman do you think she would have been so accepting as you have been? Don't let her play this games with you. Get tested for STD's and see an attorney to understand your options. Knowledge is power.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

No. Tell her you are not interested in a separtation. Tell her its all or nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ya...use whatbryan said too. Tell her "would you like if I was cheating on u for the second time like you are? " she will try to change the subject and deflect and call u names...get ready cause she's gonna sling a lot of sht...but don't let her. Ask her..."answer me....yes or no....would you like if I was cheating on u for the second time?l
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Just sent the message as you suggested. please don't go offline now...I will need your help!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Remember ...nooooo emotions when u talk to her. Play cool calm and collected. She is going to hate this and it will work to ur benefit cause she's going to sound like a psycho ranting. Every single thing she's doing is VERY TYPICAL. Its a script all wayward spouses follow. We can pretty much predict everything she will say n how she will react. Expect her to act crazy cause you're standing ur ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok I'm standing by...forgive the typos am on my fone. Usually I'm a grammar queen  bryan...stay too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

ok...answer: not sure if getting rid of OM will solve problem or will think of others...its not him its me...i am trying to let go so i can focus attn on me and why i am doing this...i know i don't matter to u in the equation but i do to me...and i deserve better for me too...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Text her..."that's your decision to make. Mine is that I absolutely will not live in an open marriage."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Last message: OK u know what? I really think that maybe we need to stop before we say stuff we r going to regret. I have to go to town now. Call me cheater. it huts. So you know why would you even want me? guess the answer is...you really don't. And i am the bad guy of course. u had nothing to do with any of it. and funny...u told me that marriage counseling ruins marriages, yet ur talking to them online. but won't seek your own counselor now will ya?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's grasping see? She's trying to make it sound like the affair is a minor issue which is bullsht!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's deflecting about marriage counselor. Tell her "I would consider going to MC. But not while you're having an affair and betraying me. Counter-productive."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Well here it is folks: "so here is my plan. I will be constructing an email tonight to OM telling him I have feelings for him and that I have to quit texting him so i can get my head together. And, I am going to separate from you for the same reason. Arent you glad you forced my hand?" Then "Yep, thats my decision and it is my decision to separate from you" in answer to the open marriage comment suggested by you all.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Just sent message about going to MC but not while in affair...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's trying to one-up you and seek empathy from u. Now she's playing the victimmm...u forced me...woe is me.. Tell her "I did not force you to have an affair or anything else for that matter. You have free will."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

If I can't get hold of OMW should I call/text OM?
Obviously waiting her reply here...


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Most of her stuff now is emotional outburst. That's to be expected. She's now is a survival or defensive mode and will do or say anything to lessen the impact.

Your position should be firm and simple. Stay in the marriage or go.

In one of her text she said:


> not sure if getting rid of OM will solve problem or* will think of others*


 that's an admission she cant be faithful in the marriage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

No...don't call the OM just yet. Can you hire a PI for more info? Can u google him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> If I can't get hold of OMW should I call/text OM?
> Obviously waiting her reply here...



Dont think texting the OM helps you any at this point.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Jellybeans, sent as suggested. Still no answer. She may be done for the evening...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, OM is out. Can't afford PI. Might be able to pay for a search of him though to get OMWs name. Don't like to spend money on this though...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Now 11 minutes past last message from her. She is licking her wounds and will likely try to get hold of me later. I will not answer...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't contact her. She will contact u. Its inevitable. Be strong and maintain ur position. If u need to scream go outside for fresh air. R u at work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Looks like the first storm has passed. thank you ALL for being there. I am sure I will call on you again!


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Jellbeans I am far from home in a motel for work. Lots of my employees around though...


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Looks like the first storm has passed. thank you ALL for being there. I am sure I will call on you again!



I think if you keep things simple (stay or go) then you can prevent yourself from being overwhelmed. Dont get trap/hook into side issues.

Now go do something else to take your mind of this. There will be lots of time ahead to deal with this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Get some wk done to try to take ur mind off things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks again everyone. Gonna go take a walk...probably cry like a baby while doing so but hey, at least the first step is done!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

And, allow me to point out that there is no need to response to any of her text immediately or at all. Take your time. Take all the time you need.


Unless, it's an emergency with the kids.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Aug! The kids are my greatest worry at this point. She has made her bed. Now what though? I don't expect to hear from her for a few days. She might not be there by the time I get home. This dmned heartache is killing me. She was the single most important thing in my life...but I will be strong. I will not contact her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

aug said:


> And, allow me to point out that there is no need to response to any of her text immediately or at all. Take your time. Take all the time you need.
> 
> 
> Unless, it's an emergency with the kids.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Never text back immediately. Even if you know exactly what you're going to say make it look like you are weighing all your options. She has to believe you will dump her.

You have to blow up other man fast. Try the home phone if he answers hang up after you ask for fake name. He doesn't know your voice, right? Have you tried spokeo.com?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Does not know my voice but has been warned that I might contact him by my wife (that was her FIRST thought by the way). Why call and hang up? I do NOT want to have one of their kids answer the phone. Far better to find his wife and her cell # if possible?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

New contacts just in: In answer to my saying that I did not force her to have an affair she says "no but you did force my hand. Gave me an ultimatum. And I made my decision. Maybe we can really talk when you get back. That is if you are still willing. Will talk to you later." Then "How is it counter productive for you to go to a counselor yourself?"


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I told her I was always willing to talk but will only do so when the affair is over. Then I asked if she had written him yet to break it off?? Anyone out there???


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

wow...rough response. "FU, I said I would tonight. Just fcking got back from town. GF is here, so, found a place to live yet?" my response is "no, I believe you will be the one moving out. I did not cheat you did."


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Does not know my voice but has been warned that I might contact him by my wife (that was her FIRST thought by the way). Why call and hang up? I do NOT want to have one of their kids answer the phone. Far better to find his wife and her cell # if possible?


You don't want him to know you're trying to contact his wife under any circumstances. He will warn her that a crazy man is going to call. Why did your wife tell him you might call. If one of the kids answered just ask for their mom.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> I told her I was always willing to talk but will only do so when the affair is over. Then I asked if she had written him yet to break it off?? Anyone out there???


Are you letting her stew for awhile before you answer back? It sounds like she has you dancing to her tune.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Do not ask her if she broke it off again. She said she was going to so u shoulda waited to see if she came thru or not. U just set urself back by doing that. She has to believe that u are done w her. Get it? Don't feed into her bull about u forcing her hand. Tell her "I did not force ur hand. Its hardly an ultimatum to expect faithfulness from ur wife." Then do nooooot text her back since she wants to act high and mighty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

No, I am definitely letting her sweat it out. She just wrote in response to me telling her she was moving out. Says "No I really don't think so. You were the one who told me you were leaving by January. Wow, guess you really want to work things out huh?" Waiting to send the response "yes I really do."


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> wow...rough response. "FU, I said I would tonight. Just fcking got back from town. GF is here, so, found a place to live yet?" my response is "no, I believe you will be the one moving out. I did not cheat you did."


I would not answer any text she used disrespectful language. It was a nasty rhetorical question anyway. She didn't think you would be looking for a place to stay while you're away. 

Quit playing her game.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wow shes tellin u to FU? Classy broad. Good response fr u when u told her you wouldn't be movin out since uu did nothing wrong. Stooop responding. She has u right where she wants and u r taking the bait if u keep responding to her spew n disrespect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Added 
"but the affair ends tonight or we have no where to go with us." still waiting to send


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

At this point you're in a shouting match with her. Not cool. In other words be respectful, act like the adult, let her argue childishly and above all be calm collected and cool. Absolutely cut back on communication. She's fishing and you are biting bigtime.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Noooo do not send that. Do nooooot write her back! She just told u to fck off aand is cheting on u and told u that u should find somewhere to live. Do not respond when she's bein disrespectful!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

U already told her to end the A. There is no need to remind her. Get it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Erased above message and did not send. Hers are getting nastier now. "It is obvious that you don't trust me to end things with him. So it is obvious that you won't trust me again. And funny thing is I don't trust myself not to do it again. So don't know what else to say except I have made my decision to separate to figure ME out. But this isn't about what I want or need. It is about you." Then "what u been drinking?"


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Added
> "but the affair ends tonight or we have no where to go with us." still waiting to send


Nooooooooo ........just shut up and think. Hell go get drunk or something, turn phone off Jesus Christ.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Erased above message and did not send. Hers are getting nastier now. "It is obvious that you don't trust me to end things with him. So it is obvious that you won't trust me again. And funny thing is I don't trust myself not to do it again.


WOW..... awful. Truly awful. Don't text her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

At least you've got her thinking and running her mouth just listen for awhile and calm down or you are going to blow it.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Okay...did not send the message...would love to get drunk but after her last "what u been drinking" and the fact that I have to be up at 5:30 I think I will pass. But, I will ignore her now.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

That's my biggest problem...always want to talk before I think! What will i do when I go home and face her eye to eye without you guys in the room with me? Thanks again for the help...I owe you all a big one.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> OK: UPDATE. I hope you all are right about this. i have been trying to find OMWs number but in the meantime my wife texted to say hi and find out if I was alright. I told her no I was not. I mentioned that I was on this site (not by name of course) and that I had been advised to tell her to end the A now. I said "bottom line him or me?" She wrote back and said "working on it." I said "NO not working on it. The time is now!" After a pause of about ten minutes she wrote and said "I choose me!" I said "wrong answer, c'ya." She immediately wrote back and said "ok." A few seconds ago she said "I choose neither of you, i choose to be alone." I did not answer. She has now tried to call four times...and counting. This is REALLY killing me you guys...


Excellent job. Your wife is an a-hole, IMO.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How'd u discover her affair? Is this affair w the same man she has the last affair with? I prob would call his house fr a blocked number and see if his wife answers. How did she meet OM? When u do see her again u need to be cool calm n collected and nooo emotions and maintain ur boundary without backing down at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> That's my biggest problem...always want to talk before I think! What will i do when I go home and face her eye to eye without you guys in the room with me? Thanks again for the help...I owe you all a big one.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Start reading, so far you haven't made a lot of mistakes others have. 

You really have to convince her you have a lot of options. You also HAVE to not show emotions around her, NONE. She needs to know you will be doing every thing you can to force her out and you will keep custody of kids if she separates or files divorce papers.

She needs to know life is going to be a b!tch without you.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Dont respond to any of her emotional texts. She's blowing steam right now (and will be for a few days). Let her blow till she runs dry or tired out. 

When she starts texting you nicely, think about responding briefly. What you want to do is train her that you will only communicate with her if she's rational.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

You really, really need to read up on the 180 and start doing it asap. Stop engaging with your abusive, serial cheater of a wife. 

Look, read morituri's "let her go" thread and do it. 

You cannot change or control an a-hole like your wife.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

What you probably should do now is learn to detach your emotions a little.

Take a look at the signature of this poster: Talk About Marriage - View Profile: morituri

Good time to read "Just Let Them Go" and the "180 degree rule".

Note the 180 is for your benefit only -- it's to protect your sanity and dignity.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Excellent job. Your wife is an a-hole, IMO.


Yep!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Look, read morituri's "let her go" thread and do it.
> 
> You cannot change or control an a-hole like your wife.


Pretty much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

She went to High School with this guy like 30 years ago. They knew each other but did not date. I went with her to a HS reunion thing last June and that is where they "hooked up" I guess. Phone records seem to verify nothing before June. She has admitted to June but honestly if she told me the sky was blue I would be sure it was anything BUT blue at this point. This is not the same guy the first OM she met in an online class doing her Ba degree. Sexting but it hurt like hell when i found out. She ended it immediately and swore it would never happen again. How did I find out? On BOTH occasions I accidentally saw email/IM stuff. The first time it was emails to the OM...very explicit. She had left her laptop open and running on her email. Did I snoop...yes a little. This time in much the same manner she left FB open with IMs to a GF (the one who is staying with her tonight BTW). I went to move the computer off the foot stool so i could watch a little T.V. and voila...there were the conversations between the GF and her regarding the current OM. Chapparal, you really make a lot of sense here. And don't worry guys, I will remain strong as long as I know this will be the most honest and open thing I can do with her. The man up/nice guy thing I read a few days ago...pretty painful because I am the "nice guy." Though in reality I am not. I have blown our marriage over the years...never really fulfilling her needs/wants. I always put me and my career first. My bad. I have said I am sorry too many times now to her. She can't hear it anyway. I was NOT a very nice guy for the past nine years. i admit that freely. She has in fact most recently accused me of having an affair...with the business! Justification I know and meant to hurt me and it does, except she cannot see that I am a changed man now. have been for some months (ironically since June when her A started...though not for that reason). The fact is I DO have a lot of options. I can go just about anywhere given the work I do (although I really HATE what I do...boo hoo right?). The main thing is my kids and if this thing ends in a D...and I hope to God it does not, I want my kids. I am not sending them into another situation like this with her. Especially my nine-year old, he has special needs and i am the only one who can really care for him. Anyway, there it is for you...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks, going to the articles now!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

It will take a while. But, you are now on the road to stop being a doormat and to having a decent life.YOu need to know that your wife is an abuser, a big time abuser. You have allowed yourself to be victimized by this woman for a long time now. It is time for it to stop.
Check out www.shrink4men and www.menwhoareabused.
Read Marc Rudov's stuff ,as well as Paul Elam's. You need a different view on women.IMO.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Click below


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow...very powerful stuff! I have already made several mistakes outlined in the 180...but no more! No more crying in her arms and telling her this or that. will be strong! I will be happy. I have worked far to hard in life not to be.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Arnold: you really think I have been abused? I guess I can kind of see that. BUT is she not just getting revenge or something for me being not the nicest guy in the world to her?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

BTW...both of the links you list take me to some odd website that does not list either shrinks4men or menwhoareabused??


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Remember the 180 can be screwed up if used in the wrong situation. It is to help you, not save your marriage. You getting yourself together will make you more attractive to the opposite sex. This may draw your wife back to you. However, don't punish good behavior. 

Getting in contact with other mans wife usually blows up the affair from the other end. Its very unlikely he will throw his family under the bus for your wife. It is remotely possible however.

The most important thing is to do absolutely nothing that makes you look weak. You have to be strong, dependable, sane, solid, kind, understanding. No crying, whining, begging moping. If your losing control of yourself get away for awhile. No SARCASAM or other smart remarks. 

Talk about family, love and resposibility and don't make excuses. Think and think some more before you speak. Listen a lot more than you speak.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hopeeternal,

I don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said, you've been given great advice by our regulars, jellybeans, chaparral, and others. You've been a beta male, and now you had better become alpha now or your cause is lost. This isn't about winning or losing, or some kind of test of wills with her. This is about saving yourself, and possibly in the future, going into R if that's what you want. But not now.

Your wife is deep in the affair FOG. While she's there, she's literally out of her mind and is currently not the woman you've been married to all these years. She is now someone else. You need to realize this. You also need to realize that for all intents and purposes, your marriage is effectively over right now and she belongs to the OM. There is no way in hell that you can talk some sense into her. You cannot make her love you. You cannot manipulate her. That is the harsh truth. If you ever do reconcile, you must know that will be an entirely new marriage. But right now you have to proceed as though the current marriage is over because of this affair. You have to let her go. If you can't do this, then you will forever be walked on.

With that said, R is always possible, depending on what you consider a deal breaker. DO NOT get into a texting war with her. DO NOT get into a shouting match on the phone or in person with her. Go dark. Do a hard 180. Like others have said, the 180 is for you. It's quite obvious that you have strong codependency tendencies. The 180 is to help you overcome these tendencies. To help you get strong. 

Because what she's doing right now is cake eating. She wants the security of marriage (despite what she says), and the freedom to mess around with OM. To her, you are just the provider, the one who pays the bills and watches the kids. You are the beta male. You are in fact, not attractive to her right now, especially since it seems she can manipulate you so easily. 

You have to put D on the table. It's either she stops the affair, or it's D. It's as simple as that. Unless you want to live in an open marriage and share her with other men. If that's the case, you will only have to wait a short while until she finds your replacement and runs off with him, while you end up with and incurable STD or worse.

DO NOT move out of the house, she's the one who cheated. Throw her sh!t on the lawn or pack her bags. She should not be welcome in the marital home while she belongs to the OM. Those should be your conditions. These are NOT negotiable. 

Another condition should be she also goes NC with her toxic friend. Her toxic friend is most likely enabling and even facilitating the affair. Her toxic friend is no friend of the marriage. 

Expose, expose, expose. If you can find out the OMWs info, contact her once you have the proof. Do not expose unless you have proof and do not warn your WW that you will expose the affair. If you do, she will move to protect her OM and warn him. He will then be able to spin the story to his own BW and will paint you as some crazy jealous man out to ruin their marriage. And her first reaction will to believe and protect her husband unless you have that proof. 

If you can afford it, hire a PI. That's always the best way if you can afford it. Otherwise you will have to do the PI work yourself, and that means computer monitoring software, phone monitoring software, and VARs. And for goodness sake, DO NOT tell her about this site. I know this is a public site, but waywards seldom go to these sites because they don't want to read things that make them feel guilty or against their affair. Keep this as your safe place for now. I don't know why so many BSs, when they come here, think they can show their WS this site and think they will change their ways if only they read what's here. They won't. They're in the FOG, remember? If you do, they will only find ways to take the affair underground.

DO NOT go to MC either, not right now. MC is useless until the affair is over and both partners are comitted 100% in saving the marriage. 

In a nutshell, she goes NC with OM or it's D. That should be non negotiable. And then you will have to verify that she is NC with him after a NC letter is sent with you as a witness. Sounds so far that she won't. Fine. You must lawyer up and start pulling the trigger on D. Remember, D takes a while, and you can put a halt on the process at any time.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> BTW...both of the links you list take me to some odd website that does not list either shrinks4men or menwhoareabused??


Just google those sites, then.

And, yes, of course you are being abused. If you research this, you will se that many, if not most marital therapists consider infidelity the most severe form of emotional abuse.
Willard Harley, on his mrriagebuilders site has a free 30 minute videoclip discussing this. In it , he says he interviewd betrayed spouses who have also experienced sexual assaults or the loss of a child. He says that most of these folks tell him that the recovery from infidelity was much tougher.
Now, don't get me wrong, as I think any betrayed spouse who is also a parent would willingly go through infidelity trauma vs losing a child. But, Harley's point is not that the trauma of infidelity is greater, but that the recovery is tougher.
He explains how that when a child dies, there has been no volitional betrayal on the child's part. And, that the loss of a child does not vitiate all the fond memories of past experiences with the child. 
He also points out that people are much more supportive and sympathetic to the parents who lose a child vs how betrayed spouses are treated by people(especially those who have not been through this). There is a built in support systen for grieving parents vs betryaed spouses.
Finally, he points out that a child that dies is, obviously, not around to trigger bad memories and one does not have to witness the child parading around with an affair partner, as betrayed spouses have to do.
Just google "infidelity abuse". And watch that video by Harely. No quuestion it is severe abuse, terribly cruel. That is why, IMO, most cheaters are abusive types to begin with. They lack empathy.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Husker absolutely nails it. Sorry about what the Badgers did to your boys, Husker. Welcome to the Big Ten.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is trying to save her face. She cannot give you the same excuses .So she is doing it for "ME". Let her face the reality....Call on her bull****. If she wanted to do the "ME" thing she should have done it by not cheating first.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thank you all. First good night's sleep I have had in weeks. Remembering the 180 will be tough, I really need to just keep going over it and over it. I HAVE been Beta but not anymore. I AM codependent and that will be harder to break. Its funny because right after my "discovery" we were talking. Somewhere in the conversation I was telling her she could do whatever she needed to to figure herself out (this was before I found this site and was schooled about how I was going about this all wrong). At one point she goes "you really are a doormat." Do you know that is the only part of the conversation I actually remember? Because it is so true. I have laid down for her throughout our entire marriage because I felt that this was the best way to please her and fill her needs. What a moron I am!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Thank you all. First good night's sleep I have had in weeks. Remembering the 180 will be tough, I really need to just keep going over it and over it. I HAVE been Beta but not anymore. I AM codependent and that will be harder to break. Its funny because right after my "discovery" we were talking. Somewhere in the conversation I was telling her she could do whatever she needed to to figure herself out (this was before I found this site and was schooled about how I was going about this all wrong). At one point she goes "you really are a doormat." Do you know that is the only part of the conversation I actually remember? Because it is so true. I have laid down for her throughout our entire marriage because I felt that this was the best way to please her and fill her needs. What a moron I am!


Congrats on the good nights sleep.

If you look at these threads you will see the waywards invariably follow a script. However, the endings can be different. For some there is no reconciling, others can't wait to reconcile, some can't make up their mind and worse, some pretend to reconcile. That's why staying vigilant and verifying everything is a must if you choose reconciling.

Remember you do not turn mean or angry under the 180. Family first. At every appropriate moment remind her of what's best for the family and still keep communication to a minimum. 

It would be best if she thought you were no longer consulting this forum. She needs to know that who she's talking to is you, which it is. Just a more informed you.

The ultimate goal is to show her someone she can trust and depend on.

Don't throw the counseling idea out the window either. You should go to individual counseling and if she stops the affair then go to marriage counseling with her. 

Sounds like she may have been abusing the relationship, however acting like a doormat can bring this on. Look up "fitness testing'. Make sure you understand the boudaries issues also.

I, for one, think you all have a good chance at being happy and pulling your family back together and I pray to God you do. Many people that go through this say their marriage turns out better than ever.

Book reading list: Five Love Languages, Love Busters, His Needs Her Needs. 

Good luck

Chap


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What Are Plan A and Plan B?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks again. Of course have been thinking all day while trying to work. I do think we can turn this corner but she must follow the rules and I must obey 180. If she won't give up the A, then obviously the whole deal is done because to me it shows that she will never have any respect for me (or for herself). And I have thought a lot about HER today. Her past and the patterns she follows. She did the same thing in her first marriage but he never caught on. And, she left him because he was too much of a door mat. Ha!
Plan A: continue riding this wave out. I want to see what she does with my "new found" self. I am certain she wants to separate but I think it has to be clear that even if we DO separate the A has to end if we have any chance at all. Of course I will have no way of verifying if she does move out. BUT if separation works fine. We can see councilors separately as well during that time (yep, I need one for sure).
Plan B if she does not end it then we start seeing our lawyers. THAT will be complicated as she owns 50% of the business and we have investments together.

What SUCKS is both A and B are going to hurt our kids. Also know that either way I will be contacting the OMW as soon as I figure out how. At the very least then all four of us will be part of their affair.

I am also focusing on how I will react. I have decided that I can no longer cry for the past, its done. I will try to make today the best it can be. I will NOT cry for the future because it has not happened. I will not yell, I may be angry but I will talk (minimally) and listen. I will be calm. I will be peaceful. This is the Buddhist way and I am a novice Buddhist (took that up last winter as a way of coping with the stress in my life).


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh...jeez, did not realize your question was a link...sorry. I will read that this evening and be more clear in my response. Need to get back to work now though.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

My personal opinion: not a fan of plan A at all. When an affair is happening...especially when its not the first time the wayward has cheated...its time for hard consequences...plan B all the way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> My personal opinion: not a fan of plan A at all. When an affair is happening...especially when its not the first time the wayward has cheated...its time. For consequences...plan & all the way
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Plan A is a modified Plan Doormat. I know there is the "stick"part of the "carrot and the stick" deal. But,in my opinion when someone is abusing you like this, the only reason to use a carrot is to shove it up her ass.
Maybe that is just me. But, when someone ****s with me, I don't offer an olive branch until she apologizes and makes amends.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She is a serial cheat. Plan A isn't your friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Yep...you are all correct again. So, plan B is my plan A then. But the fact is that she clearly did not write the OM like she said she would (I knew she was lying when she said it, but I am Hope Eternal). No contact from her today (I said she will lick her wounds for a few days, and expects ME to contact her...come crawling back like a million times before...how pathetic!). So NOW what? I am out of town working until Wednesday. If she does not hear from me and she does not contact me i know she will be lying in wait for me when I return...with her rants all planned out. I plan on "sticking to my guns" with regard to the A ending, but I have now said "immediately" like twenty times. When is enough enough?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Also, I cannot find the OMWs name of number. I know if I simply contact the OM it will accomplish nothing. Still not sure how to get hold of her cell #


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What online services have you already tried?

Do you know the home address?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Time for shock and awe. Tell her you will be seeing an attorney to understand all of your options and then do it.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Yep...you are all correct again. So, plan B is my plan A then. But the fact is that she clearly did not write the OM like she said she would (I knew she was lying when she said it, but I am Hope Eternal). No contact from her today (I said she will lick her wounds for a few days, and expects ME to contact her...come crawling back like a million times before...how pathetic!). So NOW what? I am out of town working until Wednesday. If she does not hear from me and she does not contact me i know she will be lying in wait for me when I return...with her rants all planned out. I plan on "sticking to my guns" with regard to the A ending, but I have now said "immediately" like twenty times. When is enough enough?


You need to get comfortable with long periods of non contact. Narcissists hate it when you ignore them.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Also, I cannot find the OMWs name of number. I know if I simply contact the OM it will accomplish nothing. Still not sure how to get hold of her cell #


Shamwow used a private investigator. He delayed awhile not wanting to hurt OMW. However, when he got in contact with her the other man dumped Sham's wife instantly and threw her under the bus. The other mans wife thanked Sham several times asshe had suspected something but coulsn't prove it.

They are trying to reconcile but Sham is going through with divorce at this time.

Your wife will believe" immediately" when you show her you meanit by doing the opposite form what you've always done. Let her stew while working on yourself.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Shamwow used a private investigator. He delayed awhile not wanting to hurt OMW. However, when he got in contact with her the other man dumped Sham's wife instantly and threw her under the bus. The other mans wife thanked Sham several times asshe had suspected something but coulsn't prove it.
> 
> They are trying to reconcile but Sham is going through with divorce at this time.
> 
> Your wife will believe" immediately" when you show her you meanit by doing the opposite form what you've always done. Let her stew while working on yourself.


Agree. A decent PI will find her fast. And, it should not cost an arm and a leg. These guys are just really good at internet research. You can have it in no time.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Shaggy,

I have a home address and what I assume is a landline. I also have OMs cell phone from my wife's phone records. PI is out...cannot afford that. There are phone look up sites that charge a monthly fee. I have found him but not sure if I pay it will list her as well?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, just revd a text "r u there?" do i answer?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Now trying to call me...


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

Nope, i'd stay dark at this point. Keep her wondering what is up with you. Also, it was mentioned earlier on but you REALLY need to make sure you are separating all the finances. 

Put YOUR money into a new account, do not put any money into any joint accounts, close joint accounts if possible. Cancel or place on hold any credit cards she has access to that you can. 

She needs a dose or reality to slap her in the face. Let her be playing catch up on all of these as well as protecting yourself from her blowing all your money or putting you on the hook for finances.

Place a key loggers on the home computers as it is likely there is a treasure trove of info being sent from there as well.

It's time for her to feel what single life may be like. The sooner she feel it, the better.

Q~


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks MrQuatto (great name BTW!). I ignored both text and call. As far as money...I posted this elsewhere but it is very complicated. She owns 50% of our business and will and suck from there if she has to. When I return home I will be opening my own account and TRY to close our joint acct. (difficult in a small town and in a small town bank). I will be cutting her off from all personal bills being paid by the business (BTW, she is 50% owner but has not worked there in two years because it is just too stressful for her...gag...and I LET THAT HAPPEN!...what an idiot). Keyloggers. I have heard of these. have no idea where to get one or what I do with it. Are they free?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Agree. Let this dirtbag of a wife wonder WTF is going on. She has been jerking your chain for far too long. Ignore the NPD *******.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She wants it all on her time. See how she last told u she'd talk to u later but not before telling u to go fck yourself? Now she's wanting to talk...they all follow the same Script.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OMG now trying to call on the motel phone...think i will unplug it so she does not do it a 2 in the morning!


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

So if they all follow the same script what comes next? it would be great if I could anticipate that...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, here is one thing. She obviously took the time sometime today to find out what room I am in at this motel. Has been calling non-stop. I unplugged the phone.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I would suggest getting a prepaid cellphone and using it to call the OMW at their land line during the day when he is at work. Maybe she doesn't have a cell.

You can always hang up if he answers.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Going dark is great, but she may not understand what is going on. You might consider telling her your terms to renewed contact plain and simple:

'If you want to begin talking again all you need to do is text me "I'm done with X, and I'm ready to begin working on being your wife again"'.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Going dark is great, but she may not understand what is going on. You might consider telling her your terms to renewed contact plain and simple:
> 
> 'If you want to begin talking again all you need to do is text me "I'm done with X, and I'm ready to begin working on being your wife again"'.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I would also text her: "Try to be calm and don't do or say anything you can't take back."


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I would suggest getting a prepaid cellphone and using it to call the OMW at their land line during the day when he is at work. Maybe she doesn't have a cell.
> 
> You can always hang up if he answers.


Maybe you could use a motel phone, no one would no that number. OM should be at work today.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK. If I get back from work early enough today I will try the landline but I am scared as hell...not that he will answer but that she will. Have been going over what to say to her. How to gently break it to her. "Hi you don't know me but we have something very important in common, namely your husband and my wife." Also, I will send my wife an email today explaining my terms...again. No sleep again last night. My issue now is that if I found out about two As with her how many DON'T I know about in our marriage. I can now see that she has lied to me since before we were married. Of course I told lies too...and lies are lies. My lies were in a category a little less threatening to the marriage ("yes I quit smoking." Did it because she really had and I did not want to tempt her by smoking around her...stupid, yes I admit I am not the brightest bulb). Running over in my head if I can ever trust in her at all, ever again and if this means I can't be married to her anymore. Of course that kind of thinking is cart before the horse stuff because if she won't end the A I won't be married to her much longer anyway.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

ok, just sent a slightly modified version of Shaggy's suggestion to her email:
"I know this is frustrating for you too. But if you want to begin talking again all you need to do is text me "I'm done with OM, and I'm ready to begin working on being your wife again." Its that simple. Without that then there is really no reason to begin talking again."

Hope that reads alright? Short, non-confrontational but firm?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

BTW...spent money on one these "people Finder" websites last night. It may be a scam because I cannot log into the account to do a search. Have emails to their "tech support team" but will cancel the account tonight if it is not fixed by this afternoon.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> BTW...spent money on one these "people Finder" websites last night. It may be a scam because I cannot log into the account to do a search. Have emails to their "tech support team" but will cancel the account tonight if it is not fixed by this afternoon.


 Did you try spokeo .com? Alot of people have recommended it but I have never used it. Google any site to see if there are any problems with it.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I have looked at them but not signed up. I need to see if this other place comes through first and if I can get my money back. My Google of them only turned up one negative report. Anyway I know if I could just get the OMWs name I could find her easily. At this point I am not even sure she has his last name.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

key loggers are programs you can download online that records keystrokes made in the computer. A good way to get chat conversations, passwords, email accounts and some even record the chat from the other side as well. 

They do cost money, $60 - $120 depending on what you get.

If she is 50% owner of the co, you will need to speak to a lawyer on how to protect the business from her taking money without your knowledge of it. also need to keep track of what money she does take so it can be deducted from the final settlement if you do go D.

Q~


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

So I was reading the Plan A and Plan B article again. One thing that concerns me is that he says NOT to make selfish demands with a threat of consequences. So is that NOT what I am doing? By saying end the affair or we have nothing more to talk about is that not basically saying "if you don't do X then Y will happen"? I am really starting to get confused here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> So I was reading the Plan A and Plan B article again. One thing that concerns me is that he says NOT to make selfish demands with a threat of consequences. So is that NOT what I am doing? By saying end the affair or we have nothing more to talk about is that not basically saying "if you don't do X then Y will happen"? I am really starting to get confused here.





"To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce. To end the marital relationship is not punishment: It's to protect your own mental and physical health."

I would leave out the separation part.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

chapparal said:


> "To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce. To end the marital relationship is not punishment: It's to protect your own mental and physical health."
> 
> I would leave out the separation part.


:iagree:

Well said Chap!

Q~


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

in my opinion Plan A is just an opening gambit. It doesn't take long to figure out if the spouse is willing to work on the marriage. If not you move straight into Plan B and/or the 180.

Total lack of communication,however, is tricky.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I think I have name of OMW. Land line only. Hope its the right one. I know I need to do this but why does it feel so wrong? I know when I do this it will destroy their marriage and they also have kids like me. I know if I don't do this my marriage will continue to suffer. My hands are shaking over this!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> I think I have name of OMW. Land line only. Hope its the right one. I know I need to do this but why does it feel so wrong? I know when I do this it will destroy their marriage and they also have kids like me. I know if I don't do this my marriage will continue to suffer. My hands are shaking over this!


According to other posters it doesn't. Plus as far as you know the affair hasn't been phyisical right?

Generally, what you see here is the other mans wife is already suspicious and is glad for the information so she can nip an EA in the bud.

Be sure to tell her they had planned on meeting however.

Stay strong and be calm. Ask her if other man is her husband and make sure you have the right person.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Can't do it! Half way through the number I stopped. Why? I'm thinking in my head "what if she ends it or has already? What good will this do?" And, that "you are about to really hurt someone you don't even know." Damn, what's up with that? Should I wait a few days? I have the opportunity now to call from a strange phone...


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Both of you will be glad about it eventually. She deserves the truth as much as you do. What she does with it is up to her. 

She could suppress it. Things may already be bad in her marriage. More than likely, she already suspects. Think about this as education, not revenge. Don't do it for the wrong reason, and it will be easier.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You aren't hurting her, your wife and OM already have, we have seen many cases where the omw was grateful for the info
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Hopeeternal said:


> Can't do it! Half way through the number I stopped. Why? I'm thinking in my head "what if she ends it or has already? What good will this do?" And, that "you are about to really hurt someone you don't even know." Damn, what's up with that? Should I wait a few days? I have the opportunity now to call from a strange phone...


Make the call it is only your fear and self doubt stopping you. This is the right option, call and be honest with what you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, weird! I called. it rang several times then there were a series of lighter rings...almost like it rang through to another number then a beep like an answering machine? Is this some kind of block?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

and on another note. i go home tomorrow. I know she will want to talk. I understand the rules of a hard 180. What about physical contact? I'm ok with hugs but really nothing more. Is that right or wrong?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I'd say hugging is dead wrong. You look like a doormat if you do it. Just give her short, terse replies. Do not initiate jack squat. You can read up on the 180, right? It is not exactly quantum mechanics.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

There will be all sort of reasons , you could have the wrong number or it is forwarded . If you have the address go yourself and hand her a letter explaining what is happening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Arnold: Agreed.

Eli-Zor: They are in another state all together. I have an address and could send a letter if i could be sure that a) these are the right people and b) that she would get it and not OM or any of their kids


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Don't laugh at this suggestion, I've had a BS do this once , she hired a bounty hunter to deliver her letter to the OM's wife as a PI was to expensive . What am saying is find a way to get a letter delivered to her in a way that it is not intercepted or as most people have mobiles find her number or Facebook page or even her parents number and address.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK...she responded to my email from this morning. I reproduce it in full here. Please read this and then see my questions:
"Ok all I can tell you in response to this email is that I have emailed him and told him I can no longer be in communication with him. But I didn't do it to save our marriage ,I did it for ME because I need some space. Which means, that I need space from you as well. This has nothing to do with me and infidelity. It has to do with me and what I am feeling about myself and about my life. I know you don't understand that but I am being honest with you. And right now, this is as honest as I can get. I have a billion questions and stuff going on in my head right now dealing with life, love and my own concepts of what those mean to me. In this area, you cannot help me figure those out. I have to do it on my own. XXX could have been anyone. And just because I had feelings for him doesn't mean that it was love, which is another question I ahve. Maybe it was infatuation or the idea of love or whatever. But it doesn't matter. All I know is, I cannot figure this out with you giving me these ultimatums. I need to have space. I have made an appt with a counselor for ME on nov 8. I hope that I don't hear any more nasty words and name calling from you because frankly, it is only backing me into a corner. And when an animal is cornered they fight and that is how I am feeling right now. If you need to leave me because I am a "cheater" than please feel free to do so. I cannot, and will not respond and come running to you through threats, ultimatums or name calling. You are pushing me farther away. 

So not sure where this leaves you. But it leaves me to say, again, that I need space from you and time. Kind of like I am so close to the situation that I cannot see the forest for the trees. Sort of like trying to get you to go on a trip to get away from the business for a while to give you a better view of the whole thing and not just the smallest part. 

At this point in time if you still feel there is no reason to begin talking, then I understand. Just know that I am not ready to work on anything right now, except myself. It is what I have been saying all along but again, I am not sure you are really hearing me."


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

And here are my questions:
Do I now need to say that I need a copy of the email and his address so I can verify? I suspect that it was never sent and that this "space" she needs is just a way of getting away from me so she can go on with the A. Do I ask who the therapist is and confirm? Is any of this worth it because she feels no remorse and is "not doing it to save our marriage"? Good GOD! This is all too much for me to handle...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She is trying to manipulate you , go hard 180 on her , make sure you take the OM out as I an sure her NC letter is nowhere what a NC letter should be . I have not read your full thread , do her parents know of her adultery if not call them and ask for help in saving your marriage.

She is not seeking space she is working on a reason and way to leave you and be with the OM . Her words are classic garbage spewed from waywards , she either commits or she does not , she is looking for an angle and time to create a plan. Take that away from her and ensure you move all monies out of her reach.

A hard 180 is tough but you have to do his for your own sanity .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd say give her the space, BUT make sure you contact OMW ASAP to prevent them from using the freedom to continue the affair.

The absurd thing she would understand is that it is entirely her putting her emotional energy into to relationship with the OM which is killing her desire to be with you. Yes, it could have been anyone, since a third person in a marriage kills the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Eli-Zor, no one else knows except her toxic GF. I have tried to write my sister about this but stopped. I just a few minutes ago HAD to tell a fellow band member (not the details) because this will effect our gig schedule (this is one of my hobbies and I don't want to give it up for this mess, but will if I need to). Frankly her response has left me entirely cold. I FEEL like saying "I am glad you sent the letter and I am glad you are going to work on yourself, my attorney will be in contact." BUT I CAN'T. I love this woman too much...even after all of this. Please understand that she is not an evil person. She makes terrible decisions though.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I may have to get a PI to find the OMW...no luck on Inet. I really can't afford it but I will try. I will invest in a key logger and VAR. What I really need is to get to her phone but she guards it like a hawk. AND, even tho she says she emailed him, she has not said I can have full access to these things. I am really crashing hard here folks...looks to me like this thing is over...


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Sounds very IMMATURE too.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Your wife, to put it simply, is full of ****. She loves this little amorphous type of communication , filled with BS lingo about 'needing space" and finding herself etc.
My firs wife a serially chaeting , magn cum law school grad , abo****ely loved alll this type of gibberish?new- age-ish hogwash. The problem with people that love this type of gibberish, is that , in general,they are too stupid to even be embarrassed by spewing it.
Try this as a response:
" I agree. I need space to see if we have "connection" and to find my true life's purpose. My spirit mourns the loss of myself and yearns for greater enlightenment such that our souls can be free to roam with the Spirit Gods and and blah, f-ing blah.

What is with these morons? Have they no shame? Are they just that dim that they cannot see how they come off.
I always felt that even if my XW had remorse, I could never go back to her, as was just so embarrassed by her stupidity. What would i tell my sisters and brothers "Now, we have connection and her soul is at peace"? How'd you like someone like that on your arm?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The problem you have is you are in denial of how bad this is going to get unless you take control, as it is she is telling you what is going to happen because she knows you won't do anything about it. 

Call your wife's parents and them about her adultery, next get onto Facebook and find this OM or his wife or childens pages , this will enable you to create a contact list . You can get hold of his parents details by paying for the information.

Do not give up !!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Agreed all...agreed. I can't get them from FB because they are not on FB. Background check i did of OM and OMW may not even be the right people. Her parents may be a good contact but she is closer to her brother. I think he will be my first contact. I will keep calling the number I suspect is OM/OMW home phone until i am satisfied that it is/is not them. What about contacting OM via text? I have THAT number of course. Is there some way to use it? Yes, she can have all the [email protected]#king space she needs, but it will be on my terms or we are done. First, she moves out. Second, she gets a f%$king job and supports herself because she will be cut off from our funds (although there is that 50% ownership issue). Finally, she needs to understand that I am not going to be in limbo forever over this. I mean really? Really? I need to contact her xH to see what they REALLY went through leading up to their D (he and I actually get along ok). I have already asked my step-sons to contact me. Its the younger boys I am worried about. Folks, between my serious business troubles and this i am REALLY at my wits end. She clearly no longer loves me and in her "fog" she can't even admit that. I am not hanging around until she wakes up and either a) decides her life sucks and she wants to come back on her terms or b)wakes up and decides she can't be married to me. I am way to close to this BUT I am on the edge of pulling the pin all together here. Sad really...but I must survive and I must protect my kids. This may NOT be about the A...in fact it may really BE about her...just as bad in my opinion...


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

It is about her. Only a truly bad person could act as she is acting. It is that simple, IMO. There are some bad folks out there. You need to tell your kids about what she is doing, as well as anyone else you feel like telling. These MF's deserve outing.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Get a lawyer btw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I just want to wake up and find that this was a particularly long and awful nightmare...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Don't contact the OM , contact her brother and parents , be calm , mention the word affair and the OM's name. You can do this within the hour.
Cancel the credit cards and move all the monies fast .

Yes , do get a lawyer and prepare for legal separation, she has no access to your funds nor do you move out , she leaves or she stays only if she works on the marriage. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks almostrecovered. She and I have a mutual friend who is a lawyer (not the right kind) and he can recommend one to me. This also let's him know what is going on.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Eli-Zor...planning on moving as much as I can. I cannot close the business without her approval though.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Take each step in it's turn , first expose to her family , lock down the finances so she does not ratchet up huge debts , contact the OM's wife and expose him.

Be calm and composed , I know is tough once you start taking tangible measures you will start thinking clearly .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I am planning on a reply to her email tomorrow morning. I think I simply need to ask, nicely, if she will share the email to the OM with me (which I am sure she won't) and that I agree that she needs space. In order for her to do that I will suggest that she move out and that I will contact a lawyer about legal separation. I have sent her sister and mother messages on FB to please call me about something important but have no idea how long that will take as they don't do FB very much. I'm a wreck. I feel like drinking (more) but have decided that I will watch some scary movie on T.V. or something. I do NOT have to tell you how much pain I am feeling now...you have all been there. I DO have to tell you how grateful I am to all of you for help and advice so far.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Have also contacted our lawyer friend and another mutual friend. Have never been in so much pain...is this "normal"? Sick, dizzy, feel like screaming/crying/screaming/crying. Possibly the WORST Haloween ever...and i LOVE this Holiday. Missing my kids. I gotta go for a while now...can't see the d$#ned key board threw tears...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's not going to give up OM's email to you. So u can ask for it but I doubt u will be successful. Can you just call her mom and sis directly? Say "I wanna discuss something w you...Wife is having an affair with- who is married w children" then tell them how u know about the affair...tht she admitted it and how long u believe its been going on
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey Jellybeans...never needed their numbers till now!


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Damn her! First sends me a txt "You coming home tomorrow?" I ignore it. Then "At McDonalds, getting ready to Trick or Treat." Then she sends me a pic of my youngest in his costume. She KNOWS where to hit me eh? I am ALWAYS there to do Haloween with the kids...had to work this year. Now she is rubbing my face in it...like I am the one abononing my family....Damn...tears won't stop....


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Lawyer friend gave a list of people he recommends. he says that legal separation is as expensive as D so we may as well divide the sh#t now and be done with it. Meeting him later this week for a beer. Someone here said that she has been abusing me. The pic of my kid in the costume proves that. BUT I WILL NOT let her use my kids as pawns.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Keeps txting and calling...guess she IS feeling this...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Lawyer friend gave a list of people he recommends. he says that legal separation is as expensive as D so we may as well divide the sh#t now and be done with it. Meeting him later this week for a beer. Someone here said that she has been abusing me. The pic of my kid in the costume proves that. BUT I WILL NOT let her use my kids as pawns.


Its no time to panic. Yes she's being a little sh!t but you have just begun following very good advice....... well, except for outing the POSOM. The bad thing about that is, that it is your major weapon. 

She's still acting like she has you by the [email protected] and that you will be moving out.

You're going home tommorow,see your kids and if she offers to help you pack etc., your going to laugh in her face and that's the only emotion you're going to show her. That definitely doesn't mean your going to whine, beg, b!tch, yell, etc. You're going to stand up straight, be a man and hold to your boundaries. If your going to lose it go to another room or make yourself scarce until you are back under control.

Yes, its a roller coaster but it won't kill you. One way or the other you will come out stronger and better than before. 

Most likely, when you out the OM it will keep her from using her "space" for hooking up with him. Since that's what space is usually needed for.

When she talks about going to a counselor tell her you're looking for one too, and mean it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Keeps txting and calling...guess she IS feeling this...


She calls and texts a lot for someone who needs her space. Sounds kind of insecure about something. :scratchhead:


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes...insecure. I think she is beginning to realize that the Gravy Boat has left the harbor without her...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You have explained to her your position. Now she will test you to see if you will flinch.

Stick to your lines: I love you, I want to rebuild the marriage and family, and when the OM is gone we can do that together. I'm not Playing games, I am not flip flopping. I will be here when you are ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

plus she is likely feeling out the OM to see if there is a possibility to move on with him. Pressure to leave the wife and such. Trust me, she is planning, you need to do the same.

Q~


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK...what I want to say follows. Please edit/comment before i send in the morning:

"XXX, I am glad to hear that you emailed OM. In order to be certain I would ask that you forward that email to me. I would like his email address so I can confirm that he received it. You say that this is not about infidelity. That may be true but the infidelity must be dealt with first before we go forward. I really want to work on our marriage. I understand that you need your space and am glad you will be seeing a councilor. I too will be seeing a councilor to start working out my own personal issues. I would very much like it if we could see a marriage councilor. I have to KNOW that the A is over though. Sorry but my trust is a bit out of whack lately. I agree that we should separate for a while. I have been in contact with an attorney to see what my best options are and they have referred me to a specialist. I still need to have absolute access to your email and phone, and Facebook. You can have mine too. This is the only way we can begin to build trust again."

Please let me know what you think. Too wimpy?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

BTW...looking up PIs in the local area. i will see what they cost but I really need OMWs name and phone #


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

You must remain resolute. No talking except the bare logistics of kid raising and bill paying, etc. Tell her your lawyer will take care of any discussions re the divorce etc.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Arnold...wow...really? So my response is too weak? i am really at sea here...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Leaning on waiting till you see her. Then you can watch her body language. It is more trust worthy than the words coming out of her mouth.

Looks like not texting her a lot is working.

Hopefully other posters will have input.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, anyone else have suggestions RE my response? An email is less painful than "in person" for me but pain is my life currently so i will do what you all think is best...


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Bro, I know this is confusing as hell and you are not fully functional. But ,seriously. prefacing your message with "I know this is frustrating for you, too"... Please, this woman does not give a flying F about you,at least for now.
Sure, she is frustrated, frustrated that she cannot F this guy and have you subsidize it. 
Your wife is acting like a diordered NPD(redudant, I know). She may well be one. And, the worst thing you can do to an NPD is to ignore her. So, ignore her. You cannot "nice" her out of this. You cannot appeal to reason. She is chasing strnge **** and she is salivating for it. The only way to deal with her is to ignore her attacks and just expose the hell out of this whole mess. And, I mean tell the kids and all family.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Arnold...so scorched earth? Do not recognize NPD?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I wish somone had slapped me when I acted like this, however briefly.
Look, hurt. Whatever comes of this(and it is mostly out of your control), you do not want to look back and have regrets that you acted like a doormat.
Your wife is abusing you. And you are concerned that this is"frustrating" for her. Man, F that.
Ypu need not become an abusive jerk. She would love that, as she could point to it and claim you were aways like this (see fundamental attribution error in the psych books).But, you need to see what she is doing and how corrupt she is. And, there is no reason not to let others know.
I will give you a tip on how to disclose to folks other than immediate family(with them you can be direct).
Many tangential aquaintences will be put off by the direct approach, feeling that you are being way too forthcoming. So, here is how you handle this, so as to gain credibility and so as not to look vindictive:
Folks will approach you, and inquire how things are going/ Particularly when word gets out re the divorce, they inquire how are you doing, etc.
Work disclosure of the affair into normal conversation, feigning as if you qare under the impression that they already knew about it and that it is common knowledge. 
A response to an inquiry about your well being can be something like this: "Oh, not too bad. The affair , of course, threw us all for a pretty big loop. But, the kids and I are doing better, now."

Affair? What affair?
" Oh, I thought you knew, like every one else. Well.hush my mouth"
So, the disclosure is made and looks unintentional.You do not look vindictive. And, there is the allusion to it being common knowledge, which helps with your credibility.
This is all for later, of course, when you are combatting the smear campaign your wife will launch.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Shaggy already said it best, HE: "I love you, I want to rebuild the marriage and family, and when the OM is gone we can do that together. I'm not Playing games, I am not flip flopping. I will be here when you are ready."

Thats the ONLY effective message you can send her at this point. The rest, needs to be dealt with in-person.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

HE: Part of the reason why you are here (other than your wife cheating) is because the most important conversations with your spouse need to be face-to-face with everything out on the table (true intimacy) - too often we get caught up doing what's easiest - texting, e-mailing, etc.

At this point, you can't believe almost anything she says, unless it is re-inforced by her actions. Actions are everything now. This can only be observed in-person.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Stop talking via text , go home , live at home , if she talks to you be direct none confrontational . She is trying to manipulate you , expose the OM to his wife and her to her parents . Her bad behaviour will continue as long as you stand back and allow it.

Run the 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

This all makes sense folks. Maybe part of my pain is that I am seeing things clearly for the first time in a long time. As I was laying in bed thinking about this stuff at three this morning I realized that I have been a doormat for our entire marriage. In fact the times when I stood up decided NOT to be a doormat that is when we fought. Maybe this is also the reason I almost stopped being intimate with her over the years and why we have been so distant. In a passive-aggressive way I was not willing to be the doormat.

Anyway, I am not going to write her. Will see her today. I want to see the email to the OM in her sent box or we cannot even start talking. I am going to tell that I have contacted an attorney who referred me to a specialist. Not for D but for options. I am also going to let her know what is going to happen financially...a separation and even a D is going to bankrupt us (not kidding here in any way) because the company has no more money coming in. I am in fact going to have to lay off my entire staff, do the little work there is myself so I can generate SOME income. That will only last until about Christmas. She is 50% owner but does not want to hear the bad news about the company "because it upsets her too much." Just like our marriage...wants the benefits but won't do any of the work. Really, from a money point of view this junk with her could not have happened at a worse time. But it is what it is.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> This all makes sense folks. Maybe part of my pain is that I am seeing things clearly for the first time in a long time. As I was laying in bed thinking about this stuff at three this morning I realized that I have been a doormat for our entire marriage. In fact the times when I stood up decided NOT to be a doormat that is when we fought. Maybe this is also the reason I almost stopped being intimate with her over the years and why we have been so distant. In a passive-aggressive way I was not willing to be the doormat.
> 
> Anyway, I am not going to write her. Will see her today. I want to see the email to the OM in her sent box or we cannot even start talking. I am going to tell that I have contacted an attorney who referred me to a specialist. Not for D but for options. I am also going to let her know what is going to happen financially...a separation and even a D is going to bankrupt us (not kidding here in any way) because the company has no more money coming in. I am in fact going to have to lay off my entire staff, do the little work there is myself so I can generate SOME income. That will only last until about Christmas. She is 50% owner but does not want to hear the bad news about the company "because it upsets her too much." Just like our marriage...wants the benefits but won't do any of the work. Really, from a money point of view this junk with her could not have happened at a worse time. But it is what it is.


Unfortunately, I'm in the construction business. This winter looks especially daunting. For many businesses this economy has been a major/fatal blow with no end in sight. However you have to keep going and plodding along the best you can.

Work hard on your marriage/family/job and know however things turn out you have done your best. Be calm, strong and dependable. It's time to be the rock your family is anchored on.
You have gotten a lot of good advice but remember there is no telling how things are going to go. So be able to stop and think. DO NOT ARGUE with her. Be cool. You have to have your boundaries.

When she sent the text she should have sent CC or BC to you. So I doubt she sent it at all. So be ready for that. Don't flip, just say something like that's exactly what you expected at this point.

Under no circumstances let her leave and take the kids either. If she wants to separate let her go by herself.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Chapparal. I am in archaeological consulting so winter is always hard anyway. The business is a whole other kettle of fish. The stress of trying to save it for the past three-going-on four years has been hard enough. Now this on top of it. Another example of little she cares for me, us, kids. No respect. I know there will be an end to both these situations and hopefully something good can come of it all. I am not there yet. Can't see it. I am still in the trenches...not fighting but covering my head. Self preservation first. I will stick to the 180 (although I have to keep re-reading it LOL!) and I will not argue with her. THAT is hard because she can manipulate me so easily into an argument that we are in one before I know it is happening...so, short well thought out responses. No, I am certain that she did NOT send any such email. And indeed my very response is the one you mention.

I will let everyone know what happens when I see her today. I am sure there will be a storm of emotion by the time I get back here so...sorry in advance.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

remember to be strong in front of her, no begging or crying

if you have to go to another room to let it out


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

One more thing. Is there a way to stop this site from sending notifications of postings to my email? If by some act of God she suddenly does send OM an email and wants to share passwords then I do not want her to know about this site.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

go to user cp, click edit options on the left

uncheck the email notifications


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She is only going to hear your talk about bankruptcy and layoffs etc, as threats from you. They won't help anything.

Since she isn't working at R, or even fully ending the affair, she will not give you access to her email. Don't waste your breath asking for them.

She might how you the email. If it exists.

I think you really need to go the keylogger and VAR in her car route until she is seeking R.

In conversation, Just stick to your terms like I said before. This keeps things simple and focused on the immediate issue. The need to end the A. It lets her know that the door to you is open, and the one thing she must do to open it. No complicating other issues or threats at this time.

Mean while using the keylogger and VAR you are seeking to find out what she is doing, and with a PI you are locating the OMW.
You also will see the attorney, but you won't bring it up, and you won't threaten with it. If in time you give up the hope for her, then you just give her the papers. No warning, no threats, no drama.

A do not let her add any drama. When she does, tell your terms again in a calm voice and walk away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> She is only going to hear your talk about bankruptcy and layoffs etc, as threats from you. They won't help anything.
> 
> Since she isn't working at R, or even fully ending the affair, she will not give you access to her email. Don't waste your breath asking for them.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

And separate finances.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I am home now. She just got back from somewhere (?) no talking. I said Hi whats up and she said not much. She then went silent and the look on her face is one of anger. Came home early in case she wanted to talk without kids present...guess not. Now in the other room on her computer. Had a long talk with her mom today and it was actually encouraging.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you have the keylooger on the pc???

I'm thinking talked to an attorney ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> I am home now. She just got back from somewhere (?) no talking. I said Hi whats up and she said not much. She then went silent and the look on her face is one of anger. Came home early in case she wanted to talk without kids present...guess not. Now in the other room on her computer. Had a long talk with her mom today and it was actually encouraging.


Clearly a typical unrepentant, unremorseful cheating wife. No doubt chatting with/emailing OM and talking about what a monster you are.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

No keylogger yet. If she moves out for separation it won't help anyway. Spoke with my attorney friend who gave me references. Have not been back home from the business trip long enough to much more. Did have a long talk with wife's sister too. I got a lot of "is she out of her fricking mind?" So that was fine. I am not sure what she is doing on the computer...don't think talking to OM though...looking for places to live? Looking for her own atty?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a keylooger on that pc and find what email and fb accounts she is using ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

HE: My guess is she is typing out that NO CONTACT letter she already told you she sent.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

So, keylogger...works on a laptop too? Do I have to download it to her laptop directly?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Oooppppsssss....just grabbed her jacket and purse. Youngest son asked where she was going. Snapped "to town" and left. Not too sure I understand what's going on? Should I wait her out? I really do NOT want to talk to her when she is in this mood...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Grab the laptop now while she's out and download the keylogger, make sure to delete the Internet history and download history of the keylogger
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

What's weird is that she left it up and running. She clearly is trying to catch me snooping.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Wait...I was wrong. She took the computer with her, was looking at her FB online status but it was lagging.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

What's really hard is pretending things are alright in front of my kids. I think they both know something is up...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She is clearly reacting in a paranoid mode. Does she usually take her computer with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> She is clearly reacting in a paranoid mode. Does she usually take her computer with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Looks like she knows you've talked to her sister and mom. Guessing she did't like that.

Found a PI yet? Have you tried one in thier town?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> I am home now. She just got back from somewhere (?) no talking. I said Hi whats up and she said not much. She then went silent and the look on her face is one of anger. Came home early in case she wanted to talk without kids present...guess not. Now in the other room on her computer. Had a long talk with her mom today and it was actually encouraging.


How so ?


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

what drama is this?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Unfortunately cb45 its my drama. Chapparal, her mom says that she spoke with her a couple of days ago after not hearing from her in several weeks. Told mom things were bad between us but that she does not want D. Also told mom that she has appt. to see counselor. Did not tell her about the EA. Not surprising about that. I told her mom that I own 50% of the marriage problems and that I will seek a counselor also. Mom says I should make an appt. for a MC as well, not even tell my wife about it and then just say we are going to this appt. Mom thinks wife would be impressed. I told mom that I was willing to do that but that I had to see the NC letter first and that it needed to be in the email sent box. She said she understood that for sure. I suspect that when I got off the phone mom called wife immediately. Wife's sister also called me but discussion was brief as I was picking kids up from school. Same story...sister was pretty shocked. I said we could talk more about it later. Don't think sister has called my wife yet. I have also notified several of our mutual friends that we are likely separating. Next is the lawyer and also the business lawyer. Will be a busy few days. Wife has still not returned from "town." I have not texted her. 180 says to basically act like you don't care...so that is what I am doing. I was pleasant and cheerful with the kids even while she was here. Cooked them dinner, which is what I usually do. That is when she took off. Maybe the message is getting through?


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Positive Steps Today For ME: Called a lawyer and meet later this morning. Called a councilor for a meeting (not till the 10th though!). Contacted the business lawyer to let them know what is going on and see what can be done. Now, do I take Mother-in-law's advice and set up with an MC and just tell my wife we are going? Still no access to phone, email etc. and have no clue if the NC email she claims she wrote is real. Really don't want to go to the MC until that wedge is cleared BUT maybe it would be recommended by the MC?? She might listen??


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

MC likely will be a waste of time, unless she has shown to be committed to the marriage and follows the steps many have outlined for you in this thread. 

If they'll lie to you, they won't be afraid to lie to a counselor.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

and then...sick kid so had to reschedule with my lawyer. Company lawyer says this can turn into a nightmare very quickly...day is NOT going as planned!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> and then...sick kid so had to reschedule with my lawyer. Company lawyer says this can turn into a nightmare very quickly...day is NOT going as planned!


Hoping and praying things get better.


ray:


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