# What do you see in this drawing when it comes to nice guys and bad boys? There are multiple ways to interpret it IMO.



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)




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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I am more concerned with your current obsession with nice versus bad, to be honest. Just be you.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I am more concerned with your current obsession with nice versus bad, to be honest. Just be you.


I think you might have me confused with someone else maybe?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ReformedHubby said:


> I think you might have me confused with someone else maybe?


Yeah I do. Been a lot of these types of threads lately. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


What the picture suggests to me is that the girl in question is purposefully going with the bad boy, even if she's unaware that he's damaging, because the nice guy on the bench will be there for her when she needs her light relit.
I think there is some truth in this, in respect that women don't see nice guys, the proper ones and not the user ones, as fun guys.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Bad boy is there to put out the fire you don’t see burning under her skirt. Bench boy thinks if he lights the wick on her head enough that the bush fire will light itself….. but never realizes it is already burning.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

It's perpetuating the myth that nice-guys-finish-last. 

At best it creates unhelpful expectations about how men should behave. 

At worst "it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success. It allows some men to blame and hate women as a means of deflecting attention away from their own shortcomings."


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> It's perpetuating the myth that nice-guys-finish-last.


Unfortunately, it's not a myth. Nice guys do get walked over and used, I learned that the hard way.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

There’s nothing wrong with choosing the fire extinguisher. If I’m in a burning building, who is more apt to try or be able to save me? Being a manly man doesn’t make a man a jerk. I think that’s what’s gotten lost in these posts. It also depends on the woman. A quiet women who prefers to be home on a Friday night reading a book probably doesn’t want a fire extinguisher lol. But many women like to be treated as a woman with wants and needs and a desire for some level of excitement and passion, especially early on. Not everyone is looking for that, but a whole lot are. It doesn’t mean those men are incapable of love, respect, charity or tenderness. I would say I’ve dated the alpha type and I have nothing bad to say about any of my long term boyfriends or husband in this regard.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Teacherwifemom said:


> There’s nothing wrong with choosing the fire extinguisher. If I’m in a burning building, who is more apt to try or be able to save me? Being an a manly man doesn’t make a man a jerk. I think that’s what’s gotten lost in these posts. It also depends on the woman. A quiet women who prefers to be home on a Friday night reading a book probably doesn’t want a fire extinguisher lol. But many women like to be treated as a woman with wants and needs and a desire for some level of excitement and passion, especially early on. Not everyone is looking for that, but a whole lot are. It doesn’t mean those men are incapable of love, respect, charity or tenderness. I would say I’ve dated the alpha type and I have nothing bad to say about any of my long term boyfriends or husband in this regard.


Like a friend of mine said, if she wanted to have someone who would cry with her over Lifetime movies she would date a woman.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Lila said:


> It's perpetuating the myth that nice-guys-finish-last.
> 
> At best it creates unhelpful expectations about how men should behave.
> 
> At worst "it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success. It allows some men to blame and hate women as a means of deflecting attention away from their own shortcomings."


It isnt a myth, however. Nice guts are kept on the sidelines for later on, because they are safe marriage material. The women at the bad boy stage are not interested in safe guys or marriage. They want their fun. Safe guys aren't considered fun guys.

That doesn't mean every 20ish year old woman is like this, but it certainly seems that way.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UAArchangel said:


> It isnt a myth, however. Nice guts are kept on the sidelines for later on, because they are safe marriage material. The women at the bad boy stage are not interested in safe guys or marriage. They want their fun. Safe guys aren't considered fun guys.


Which is why a lot of "nice guys" end up in sexless marriages. Because the women who marry them don't marry them because they are attracted to them.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Unfortunately, it's not a myth. Nice guys do get walked over and used, I learned that the hard way.


I disagree. There have been actual studies done on this, and the evidence suggests women prefer men who are sensitive, confident and easy-going, and dislike those that are aggressive, demanding, and inattentive. 

Personally, t think it has less to do with being a kind and giving person (genuinely nice), and more to do with the type of person one is attracted to. This is a non gendered issue but with different qualities.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

I see the bad boy extinguishing her light, where as the guy on the bench would be on fire for her if she’d pull her head out of her butt.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> I disagree. There have been actual studies done on this, and the evidence suggests women prefer men who are sensitive, confident and easy-going, and dislike those that are aggressive, demanding, and inattentive.
> 
> Personally, t think it has less to do with being a kind and giving person (genuinely nice), and more to do with the type of person one is attracted to. This is a non gendered issue but with different qualities.


Those studies also do not admit the fact that the reason women prefer to marry men who are "sensitive, confident and easy going" is because they are safe and good providers but fail to acknowledge that they are not actually attracted to them. You see this all the time in the dating world and in affairs. Just look at who women choose as affair partners and to casual date. 
Now I am not saying ALL women, of course, but enough to make it not a myth.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> Those studies also do not admit the fact that the reason women prefer to marry men who are "sensitive, confident and easy going" is because they are safe and good providers but fail to acknowledge that they are not actually attracted to them. You see this all the time in the dating world and in affairs. Just look at who women choose as affair partners and to casual date.
> Now I am not saying ALL women, of course, but enough to make it not a myth.


You see it all the time on TAM. I could easily post threads of men in sexless marriages. We had one the other day.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Lila said:


> I disagree. There have been actual studies done on this, and the evidence suggests women prefer men who are sensitive, confident and easy-going, and dislike those that are aggressive, demanding, and inattentive.
> 
> Personally, t think it has less to do with being a kind and giving person (genuinely nice), and more to do with the type of person one is attracted to. This is a non gendered issue but with different qualities.


I think women do, you're right. but not first. Not when they want excitement and wild rides.

Women want stable sensitive men when they are ready to settle down and they've had all the "fun" and broken hearts they can handle.

(big generalizations here, I know)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


Lol, except we all know the flame didn't come from the guy with the matches 😝


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UAArchangel said:


> It isnt a myth, however. Nice guts are kept on the sidelines for later on, because they are safe marriage material. The women at the bad boy stage are not interested in safe guys or marriage. They want their fun. Safe guys aren't considered fun guys.
> 
> That doesn't mean every 20ish year old woman is like this, but it certainly seems that way.


It's a sweeping generalization applied to ALL or most women based on the behavior of a few. 

If you don't want to call it a myth, fine. Call it a stereotype.

I often ask men who believe this as truth to describe the type of women in which they observed this behavior. 9/10 times they don't describe anyone like me or most of the women I call friends. 

Do I have friends who prefer the bad boy? Yes. Is it most or even the majority of them? Heck no. However, we did all marry or are dating men we find attractive but let's not confuse attractive with "bad boy".


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Lila said:


> I disagree. There have been actual studies done on this, and the evidence suggests women prefer men who are sensitive, confident and easy-going, and dislike those that are aggressive, demanding, and inattentive.


What you say is true, but the key here is "stage". Younger females would be more susceptible to the "bad boy" allure. Wiser, older, more experienced woman not so much. So, it's mostly a matter of at what stage, emotionally and experienced the woman is.
Remember, even, then there's a percentage of older more experienced woman that would also fall for the bad boy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Those studies also do not admit the fact that the reason women prefer to marry men who are "sensitive, confident and easy going" is because they are safe and good providers but fail to acknowledge that they are not actually attracted to them. You see this all the time in the dating world and in affairs. Just look at who women choose as affair partners and to casual date.
> Now I am not saying ALL women, of course, but enough to make it not a myth.


Those studies were done blindly where physical attributes didn't affect the choices. 

The issue I have with this stereotype is that it mixes personality traits with physical appearance. 

If I were to take a guess, I would say good looking, nice men have the greatest success with women, followed by good looking bad boys. Where people get hung up is determining who does the worst: not so good looking nice men or no so good looking bad boys.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

The matches man may have lit the candle woman but he can't keep her alive as she will melt into a pile of nothing if extinguisher man doesn't put out the flame.

I guess one (matches man) gave her life but the other (extinguisher man) keeps her from dying, so each man fulfills a different need.

I guess that's my interpretation of the picture, lol.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> What you say is true, but the key here is "stage". Younger females would be more susceptible to the "bad boy" allure. Wiser, older, more experienced woman not so much. So, it's mostly a matter of at what stage, emotionally and experienced the woman is.
> Remember, even, then there's a percentage of older more experienced woman that would also fall for the bad boy.


Again, I disagree. I was married by 25. Most of my lifelong friends were married before or around the same time as me. 

Caveat time.... We were normal, average looking, well educated women, not your modern day Instagram model. We also married normal, average looking men (all but one was college educated). 

I posted something similar on a different thread. The more attractive one is, the more options one has. A young, attractive woman has many options. If that's the woman a young man wants, he better be her best option, wait in line until it's his turn, or choose to settle for a less attractive woman.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Those studies were done blindly where physical attributes didn't affect the choices.
> 
> The issue I have with this stereotype is that it mixes personality traits with physical appearance.
> 
> If I were to take a guess, I would say good looking, nice men have the greatest success with women, followed by good looking bad boys. Where people get hung up is determining who does the worst: not so good looking nice men or no so good looking bad boys.


From personal experience I can tell you with absolute surety that a not so good looking nice man does so much worse than a not so good looking bad boy. 🙂


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bomb drop






Hehehe 😊

Quite frankly, this even explains my last fbuddy still responding after I ghosted her 😅

Sadly... it explains a lot more than that too 😔 maybe once I'm tamed I'm no longer exciting


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Unfortunately, it's not a myth. Nice guys do get walked over and used, I learned that the hard way.


No, weak guys get walked over and used.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


I like being both. I'll blow her mind then reignite it so I can do it to her again the next night.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

Lila said:


> If I were to take a guess, I would say *good looking, nice men have the greatest success with women,* followed by good looking bad boys. Where people get hung up is determining who does the worst: not so good looking nice men or not so good looking bad boys.


100% Agree.

When it comes to dating and you don't want to be serious there are many reasons a woman might date a man.

Marriage is a marathon. Good looking, caring, men are the ones that make the best husbands.

Not rocket science.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No, weak guys get walked over and used.


So do nice guys. Life isn't set up for nice guys to succeed, in any arena.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> So do nice guys. Life isn't set up for nice guys to succeed, in any arena.


I guess I'm the exception to your rule.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Lila said:


> Again, I disagree. I was married by 25. Most of my lifelong friends were married before or around the same time as me.
> 
> Caveat time.... We were normal, average looking, well educated women, not your modern day Instagram model. We also married normal, average looking men (all but one was college educated).
> 
> I posted something similar on a different thread. The more attractive one is, the more options one has. A young, attractive woman has many options. If that's the woman a young man wants, he better be her best option, wait in line until it's his turn, or choose to settle for a less attractive woman.


I agree with that for women, but for guys it's slightly different I believe. Men can be attractive in more ways to a woman than just physical when young. It's why age differential couples are predominantly older male. 

Its also why physically attractive 30 something men have the most options, because they can accumulate resources, mature as adults and still be physically attractive. The trifecter if you will

It's sad but true that most men value physical beauty well into the later years, and why the stereo type of trading in for a younger model is so prevalent.

One of my reports found this when he unexpectedly became single at 31, he's a good looking guy, decent with a great career. He could not believe the level of interest he garnered, he was truly humbled by how attractive he was to the opposite sex.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> From personal experience I can tell you with absolute surety that a not so good looking nice man does so much worse than a not so good looking bad boy. 🙂


A vital and attractive trait in men is the ability to be dangerous, to be capable of harm.

Harmless men, or at least men who appear that way, have a very large disadvantage with most women as it is poor mating strategy on their part.

Sons of Anarchy was actually more popular with women than I would have thought but I have a good idea why.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> A vital and attractive trait in men is the ability to be dangerous, to be capable of harm.
> 
> Harmless men, or at least men who appear that way, have a very large disadvantage with most women as it is poor mating strategy on their part.
> 
> Sons of Anarchy was actually more popular with women than I would have thought but I have a good idea why.


Tale as old as time 😌


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

This subject has been well covered on TAM.
But I guarantee most wives who cheat that their husbands are so-called nice guys or beta males.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> A vital and attractive trait in men is the ability to be dangerous, to be capable of harm.
> 
> Harmless men, or at least men who appear that way, have a very large disadvantage with most women as it is poor mating strategy on their part.
> 
> Sons of Anarchy was actually more popular with women than I would have thought but I have a good idea why.


Jordan petersen fan by any chance? How does one convey this in the modern world I wonder? Asking for a friend 😉


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> It's perpetuating the myth that nice-guys-finish-last.
> 
> At best it creates unhelpful expectations about how men should behave.
> 
> At worst "it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success. It allows some men to blame and hate women as a means of deflecting attention away from their own *short*comings."


Don't say short, EVER!


_Prince Robbie-_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jamieboy said:


> Jordan petersen fan by any chance? How does one convey this in the modern world I wonder? Asking for a friend 😉


It's already conveyed in modern media; Beauty and the beast, vampire diaries, twilight, underworld, 50 shades of grey, sons of anarchy etc. just not necessarily acknowledged.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

There is a world of difference between being a jerk, and not being "nice".


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jamieboy said:


> Jordan petersen fan by any chance? How does one convey this in the modern world I wonder? Asking for a friend 😉


LoL! That's the tricky part in a society that is as far along the path of civilization as we are and I haven't done a lot of studying on that particular aspect.

Obviously men in some form of power attract and though money is nice, I would bet the ruthlessness and strength of will it takes to achieve are the bigger aphrodisiacs.

Men need to have some kind of innate or developed power (both is better) to have this vital point of attraction.

If a man is capable of influencing or shaping part of his environment in a confident, proficient and/or dominant way, I would say that fits the bill for a lot of women to check that box off.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! That's the tricky part in a society that is as far along the path of civilization as we are and I haven't done a lot of studying on that particular aspect.
> 
> Obviously men in some form of power attract and though money is nice, I would bet the ruthlessness and strength of will it takes to achieve are the bigger aphrodisiacs.
> 
> ...


All I did with fbuddy was ram her like a beast 🤷‍♂️

Was also something ex enjoyed but not something I could give all the time, I like sensual cuddles and romantic love making too 😔

It's worrisome, maybe my nice guy traits really are worthless


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> All I did with fbuddy was ram her like a beast 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Was also something ex enjoyed but not something I could give all the time, I like sensual cuddles and romantic love making too 😔


😋
It wouldn't matter if you let her down like a limp noodle. The point is that you got her naked with you so you obviously checked enough boxes for her to choose getting naked with you.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> 😋
> It wouldn't matter if you let her down like a limp noodle. The point is that you got her naked with you so you obviously checked enough boxes for her to choose getting naked with you.


LOL. All true.

_(That's why I believe women who allow themselves to be "F-buddies" are dumb as dirt. But that's just me.)_


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

heather42 said:


> _(That's why I believe women who allow themselves to be "F-buddies" are dumb as dirt. But that's just me.)_


😍


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> 😋
> It wouldn't matter if you let her down like a limp noodle. The point is that you got her naked with you so you obviously checked enough boxes for her to choose getting naked with you.


Except for the one I actually wanted to love and marry for the rest of my life...

I dont know whether she left me because she tamed me or I was untamable. Dumped 3 months after engagement, and she never did answer me when I asked her if there was someone else.

I dont think she did it physically, but as a 9 with constant male attention, she was always ripe for an emotional affair, but at 21 I doubt she knew how to manage it if it did happen.

Who knows, all I have from the "official story" she gave me is just lots of complaints, but the ILYBNILWY... 😔


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> A vital and attractive trait in men is the ability to be dangerous, to be capable of harm.
> 
> Harmless men, or at least men who appear that way, have a very large disadvantage with most women as it is poor mating strategy on their part.
> 
> Sons of Anarchy was actually more popular with women than I would have thought but I have a good idea why.


This is exactly right. You have to reach that line of "capable but not actively doing". I think a lot of women lose respect for their men over time if the men are constantly showing weakness/meekness.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

What if, instead of a motorcycle the dude was driving, say, an Aston Martin?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! That's the tricky part in a society that is as far along the path of civilization as we are and I haven't done a lot of studying on that particular aspect.
> 
> Obviously men in some form of power attract and though money is nice, I would bet the ruthlessness and strength of will it takes to achieve are the bigger aphrodisiacs.
> 
> ...


In modern times the arena of choice to show this off is the business world.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


I see this as saying the woman has power over the matches. She can light him up and set his world on fire. 

With the bad boy it's the opposite. He has the power to snuff her out, dim her shine.

There's going to be a third woman, not shown, who can turn the bad boy into a box of matches though.

For me, this all about giving your power away to others.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

CharlieParker said:


> What if, instead of a motorcycle the dude was driving, say, an Aston Martin?


The "James Bond Rule"


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Not said:


> For me, this all about giving your power away to others.


I like this phrase! Never give your power to anyone else.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not said:


> I see this as saying the woman has power over the matches. She can light him up and set his world on fire.
> 
> With the bad boy it's the opposite. He has the power to snuff her out, dim her shine.
> 
> ...


😔 I met the third woman

Think I'll just stick to woman #1 and #2


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> I agree with that for women, but for guys it's slightly different I believe. Men can be attractive in more ways to a woman than just physical when young. It's why age differential couples are predominantly older male.
> 
> Its also why physically attractive 30 something men have the most options, because they can accumulate resources, mature as adults and still be physically attractive. The trifecter if you will
> 
> ...


It's definitely true that attraction is more involved for women. We have a hierarchy of traits we appreciate in men, and financial stability is attractive across the board. 

Your point regarding men finding the physical appearance of women most important above every other quality is the other side of the Nice Guy argument. There's only so much trading up one can do. At some point, there's no more trading up without it being an exchange of commodities and not a relationship.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> I like this phrase! Never give your power to anyone else.


But isn't that what vulnerability is all about?

Whole life I got away with so much crap being an emotionally unavailable tard and when I'm more grown up and not one anymore I end up getting fked by it 🤣

Maybe the life lessons when I was 14 were right all along. You simply can't trust anyone to be vulnerable.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


I think the artist is portraying the woman being attracted to the guy that is going to extinguish her light while ignoring the guy that will have the ability to relight her.

The guy on the bench is obviously better for her life and the guy on the bike is going to damage her life.

I'm sure this has played out a few times but I do not find it to be totally accurate.

Maybe the guy on the bench needs to get off his ass.


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## Jimmysgirl (9 mo ago)

The way I see it (life experience, maybe) is that the nice guy will light your fire and the other guy will make you feel worthless. Yeah, I want a guy who will slam me against a wall (in a good way) but what I really want is to not have to question if I'm your number 1. Your pride, bad boy rep, tough guy persona, whatever, should not keep you from being the tender guy I desire. I think what women really want is a bad boy to the world but a guy who will go soft when he's with us.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Lila said:


> It's a sweeping generalization applied to ALL or most women based on the behavior of a few.
> 
> If you don't want to call it a myth, fine. Call it a stereotype.
> 
> ...


I can think of several girls I was friends with in college who dated guys that treated them poorly. And of course they all loved me, as a friend. (This caused me frustration but definitely not to blame/hate women ). 

One particular girl dated a bunch of football/basketball players-- ok, not a bunch because those guys often had multiple partners and would not fully commit-- and then finally about the nicest guy you could meet. Pretty quiet guy, religious, sensitive. 

These were not outliers. These girls were very much 'normal' and 'average' in their lives and temperaments. IE, they were not people you would consider 'crazy' or 'stupid'.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Not said:


> I see this as saying the woman has power over the matches. She can light him up and set his world on fire.
> 
> With the bad boy it's the opposite. He has the power to snuff her out, dim her shine.
> 
> ...


I saw it as something like this as well - sexual power dynamics. 

Cool Extinguishboy has the power over hot-for-him candlegirl. Candlegirl has the power over matchbookboy. That leaves matchbookboy at the sidelines, powerless. Also, matchboy would go up in flames in one shot if candlegirl got even close to him lol.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> It isnt a myth, however. Nice guts are kept on the sidelines for later on, because they are safe marriage material. The women at the bad boy stage are not interested in safe guys or marriage. They want their fun. Safe guys aren't considered fun guys.
> 
> That doesn't mean every 20ish year old woman is like this, but it certainly seems that way.


This is likely true. I wonder if they’re also not more likely to be the ones cheated on, especially after the child rearing is done and mama wants more excitement. I think that’s an awful thing to do, btw, but I know it happens.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Until we keep equating nice guys to weak guys, we won't get anywhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jimmysgirl said:


> I think what women really want is a bad boy to the world but a guy who will go soft when he's with us.


Bullseye 🎯


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jimmysgirl said:


> The way I see it (life experience, maybe) is that the nice guy will light your fire and the other guy will make you feel worthless. Yeah, I want a guy who will slam me against a wall (in a good way) but what I really want is to not have to question if I'm your number 1. Your pride, bad boy rep, tough guy persona, whatever, should not keep you from being the tender guy I desire. I think what women really want is a bad boy to the world but a guy who will go soft when he's with us.


Sure, like in the video I posted it was explained that the beast needs to be civilised to a degree where the risk and danger of being hurt is manageable.

Starting to think though, once the beast is fully tamed he will lose his edge.

Reminds me of a quote in an old movie about Cleopatra, though it was about a woman seducing a man "it's easy to seduce a conqueror, you must simply make sure no matter how much you give him, there is always something left to conquer"


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Lila said:


> It's definitely true that attraction is more involved for women. We have a hierarchy of traits we appreciate in men, and financial stability is attractive across the board.
> 
> Your point regarding men finding the physical appearance of women most important above every other quality is the other side of the Nice Guy argument. There's only so much trading up one can do. At some point, there's no more trading up without it being an exchange of commodities and not a relationship.


Fact that men perceive every part of woman's body they are attracted to as sexual.
But as regarding women what attracts them to certain men is a lot more complicated.
How good he is in the sack, his masculinity, how successful they are especially financially and mostly will he be able to protect and support her.
Rarely will men if attracted to a woman be interested in how much money she has, or whether she has degrees and a good career or her financial situation.
But a woman`s past especially if she was promiscuous can be a turn off for men and as opposite to women`s attraction for men, men do prefer the good girls or the girl next door types that unfortunately in this day and age are becoming extinct.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> But isn't that what vulnerability is all about?
> 
> Whole life I got away with so much crap being an emotionally unavailable tard and when I'm more grown up and not one anymore I end up getting fked by it 🤣
> 
> Maybe the life lessons when I was 14 were right all along. You simply can't trust anyone to be vulnerable.


Never be vulnerable to ANYONE.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Teacherwifemom said:


> This is likely true. I wonder if they’re also not more likely to be the ones cheated on, especially after the child rearing is done and mama wants more excitement. I think that’s an awful thing to do, btw, but I know it happens.


Happens way to often.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Never be vulnerable to ANYONE.


I'm learning 😔

Good thing I know it won't happen again at least.

Yet it's hard to go back, it didn't feel the same with fbuddy no matter how hot she was. Besides felt like a sex toy again.

Sometimes I wonder if the women get more out of me than I get out of them 🙄


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Never be vulnerable to ANYONE.


Well. Depends like everything.

I'm vulnerable with my wife. She's a grown ass woman though and wise enough to guard me.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> I'm learning 😔
> 
> Good thing I know it won't happen again at least.
> 
> ...


Sometimes that happens and it's ok. It all equals out in the long run.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Well. Depends like everything.
> 
> I'm vulnerable with my wife. She's a grown ass woman though and wise enough to guard me.


Difference being is that there is a level of trust between you and you wife.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Difference being is that there is a level of trust between you and you wife.


I had trust too, well, I never trust anyone ultimately it's always what I trust them to do, that's why I suspect, not that it matters now or that I can ever find out the truth.

She was extremely young though so I'm foolish to expect more, yet thought love was enough, the fool I was.

I'm not so sure how does one love someone while holding back, though it seems holding back is a virtue for above mentioned reasons... and 20k down the drain. I wonder if the relationship would have lasted longer without the ring, when I was yet to be tamed.

Four months dating and all useless talking about compatibilities and what... one home run later simply playing the game instead and a fbuddy ended up being the only one worth my time.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> I can think of several girls I was friends with in college who dated guys that treated them poorly. And of course they all loved me, as a friend. (This caused me frustration but definitely not to blame/hate women ).
> 
> One particular girl dated a bunch of football/basketball players-- ok, not a bunch because those guys often had multiple partners and would not fully commit-- and then finally about the nicest guy you could meet. Pretty quiet guy, religious, sensitive.
> 
> These were not outliers. These girls were very much 'normal' and 'average' in their lives and temperaments. IE, they were not people you would consider 'crazy' or 'stupid'.



I don't doubt your experiences. What I'm saying is that one experience doesn't make the rule. 

I had (and continued to have after divorce) similar experiences as a woman dating men. Many of the guys I knew when I was young were chasing the hot women. "Nice" me was always relegated to friend status, never girlfriend. I realized young that when it came to dating, if I wasn't hunting, I wasn't eating. I guess I could assume all men are like this but I don't think that's true because, although not the hot chick, I did find a partner to marry. And now after divorce, I have found men to date.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

gameopoly5 said:


> Fact that men perceive every part of woman's body they are attracted to as sexual.
> But as regarding women what attracts them to certain men is a lot more complicated.
> How good he is in the sack, his masculinity, how successful they are especially financially and mostly will he be able to protect and support her.
> Rarely will men if attracted to a woman be interested in how much money she has, or whether she has degrees and a good career or her financial situation.
> But a woman`s past especially if she was promiscuous can be a turn off for men and as opposite to women`s attraction for men, men do prefer the good girls or the girl next door types that unfortunately in this day and age are becoming extinct.


The reasons you gave for men's selection criteria of a partner is why I rarely feel any empathy for men when they get burned in a break up. Superficial choices have severe consequences.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> Fact that men perceive every part of woman's body they are attracted to as sexual.
> But as regarding women what attracts them to certain men is a lot more complicated.
> How good he is in the sack, his masculinity, how successful they are especially financially and mostly *will he be able to protect and support her.*
> Rarely will men if attracted to a woman be interested in how much money she has, or whether she has degrees and a good career or her financial situation.
> But a woman`s past especially if she was promiscuous can be a turn off for men and as opposite to women`s attraction for men, men do prefer the good girls or the girl next door types that unfortunately in this day and age are becoming extinct.


True enough for my generation.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Lila said:


> It's definitely true that attraction is more involved for women. We have a hierarchy of traits we appreciate in men, and financial stability is attractive across the board.
> 
> Your point regarding men finding the physical appearance of women most important above every other quality is the other side of the Nice Guy argument. There's only so much trading up one can do. At some point, there's no more trading up without it being an exchange of commodities and not a relationship.


I think you're right, but financial stability is a commodity. Let's not pretend that in our developed culture, all ltrs are an exchange of commodities. Be that looks, intelligence education, social status, sense of humour etc.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I didn't want to share my thoughts on it at first because I guess I was most interested in how others interpreted it. I also thought it was depicting a nice guy getting ignored in favor of a bad boy. What surprised me is in the place where I found it, I'd say roughly half the comments thought the Fire-extinguisher head guy was better for her at least short term. They viewed the guy on the bench as emotionally needy and draining. That he would eventually burn her out. They felt the guy on the bike was more fun. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. But I am surprised so many viewed it that way. I might add it seemed to be women making these comments.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> I think you're right, but financial stability is a commodity. Let's not pretend that in our developed culture, all ltrs are an exchange of commodities. Be that looks, intelligence education, social status, sense of humour etc.


For some people, LTRs are an exchange of commodities. Think of the people who dump to their partners when they become sick, or lose their job, or age. For others, it's not.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> I had trust too, well, I never trust anyone ultimately it's always what I trust them to do, that's why I suspect, not that it matters now or that I can ever find out the truth.
> 
> She was extremely young though so I'm foolish to expect more, yet thought love was enough, the fool I was.
> 
> ...


Same with me, trusted the XW till I couldn't. Nobody will get that level of trust from me again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> For some people, LTRs are an exchange of commodities. Think of the people who dump to their partners when they become sick, or lose their job, or age. For others, it's not.


With divorce rates over 50% its easy to believe that most marriages are based on exchange of commodities not love.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Lila said:


> Again, I disagree. I was married by 25. Most of my lifelong friends were married before or around the same time as me.


What that has to do with some women being attracted to "bad boys"? Fact is bad boys exist and they get women all the time, young and old. 



Lila said:


> Caveat time.... We were normal, average looking, well educated women, not your modern day Instagram model. We also married normal, average looking men (all but one was college educated).


Again, what this has to do with some women being attracted to the bad boys type? Just because your circle of friends married young, and married collage educated dudes, doesn't mean that there aren't women beautiful or not, that are attracted to the bad boy type. 



Lila said:


> The more attractive one is, the more options one has. A young, attractive woman has many options. If that's the woman a young man wants, he better be her best option, wait in line until it's his turn, or choose to settle for a less attractive woman.


once again, what young and attractive women that have all the options when picking a mate has anything to do with women that are attracted to the bad boy type? There are women from all economical and social strata in life that are attracted to the bad boy type. 

In other words, being beautiful, cool, with all the options in the world to choose from does not negates the fact that there are bad boys, and that there are women that are attracted to bad boys at one stage of their life or another, but attracted they are. Understand that I'm not saying "all women" are, but the fact is that there are women who are. That's a fact.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> With divorce rates over 50% its easy to believe that most marriages are based on exchange of commodities not love.



@Numb26, By now, we all humans should understand that marriage, not just by a social construct, but also as a biological necessity is based on exchange of commodities, not love. Love/attraction are the biological/social conduit with witch mother nature ensures that the sexes of the species get enticed to perform the act of pairing in order to perpetuate the species. It doesn't matter what people want to believe, because mother nature doesn't care about beliefs, but the nitty gritty business of getting it on with the continuation of the species, all species. This is a scientific fact.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Lila said:


> For some people, LTRs are an exchange of commodities. Think of the people who dump to their partners when they become sick, or lose their job, or age. For others, it's not.


I respectfully disagree, all relationships are an exchange of commodities, it's just putting the commodities in order of importance to you.

I don't know what your relationship status is, but if your partner stopped providing respect or loyalty or some other commodity you found to be essential, you would rightly end the relationship I hope. 

Providing it was within their control (ie not getting seriously ill)


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gameopoly5 said:


> But as regarding women what attracts them to certain men is a lot more complicated.
> How good he is in the sack, (This is somewhat important to me as well) his masculinity, (I need her to be somewhat feminine too) how successful they are especially financially and mostly will he be able to protect and support her. (I admit I'm not overly interested in her being financially very well off but being successful might be important to me in non monetary ways. She has to be fiscally responsible. She also has to show loyalty and the ability to protect and enhance my reputation.)👇
> Rarely will men if attracted to a woman be interested in how much money she has, or whether she has degrees and a good career or her financial situation.


As to the promiscuous background. I personally don't have any problems with a woman's past but I I'm not unsympathetic to men who do.

My only requirement is that her past better be firmly in the past and that includes a level of discreetness.

I could have married a former porn star if she could have figured out a way to disassociate her past from her present to the extent that anyone meeting my wife would only see my wife.

I'm of the opinion that more men wouldn't care as much about a woman's past if she was able to present as loyal and respectable at the point he meets her.

There are credible studies that indicate women can be more damaged when it comes to pair bonding and I'm not a fan of promiscuity at all but it makes all the difference if she has taken control of her life and shaped herself into an attractive package for her mate.

I personally don't get asking about body count. If a woman presents as a good package, she obviously doesn't have a bad reputation and if she does have an off color past, it's not in evidence.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Lila said:


> I don't doubt your experiences. What I'm saying is that one experience doesn't make the rule.
> 
> I had (and continued to have after divorce) similar experiences as a woman dating men. Many of the guys I knew when I was young were chasing the hot women. "Nice" me was always relegated to friend status, never girlfriend. I realized young that when it came to dating, if I wasn't hunting, I wasn't eating. I guess I could assume all men are like this but I don't think that's true because, although not the hot chick, I did find a partner to marry. And now after divorce, I have found men to date.


It wasn't one experience though. It WAS the rule and likely still is the rule. The exception was that the girl who dated the athletes was only 22 when she settled down with the nice guy. They married less than a month after we graduated. A startling exception at the time.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> @Numb26, By now, we all humans should understand that marriage, not just by a social construct, but also as a biological necessity is based on exchange of commodities, not love. Love/attraction are the biological/social conduit with witch mother nature ensures that the sexes of the species get enticed to perform the act of pairing in order to perpetuate the species. It doesn't matter what people want to believe, because mother nature doesn't care about beliefs, but the nitty gritty business of getting it on with the continuation of the species, all species. This is a scientific fact.


Mother nature doesn't care about beliefs. Stealing that one. (For a poem).


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Just my personal experience, and it may not have any relevance when considering nice guy versus bad boy in a general sense on the subject as a whole.

Nice guy experience 1:
My ex-husband was considered to be a nice, happy-go-lucky type of man. This is how everyone viewed him. He was extremely physically abusive towards me. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Nice guy experience 2:
When I was single and dating, all I wanted was a nice guy and I didn't give a crap about looks and I went on a date with one such man. At the end of the date he tried to kiss me and I backed away and he literally said, "Please kiss me, come on, kiss me...kiss me". He probably told his friends that he went out with a b*tch that wouldn't even kiss him because nice guys finish last, leaving out the fact that he acted creepy AF.

Nice guy experience 3:
This guy I dated for a little bit. He was cute and nice. Until it started to get weird, at least to me (other women might've liked it)…like when he'd say things like, "Today is the 3rd of November which is the 18th week anniversary of when we first held hands". Another time while stopped in traffic downtown, he pointed out a lamp post and said, "Oh look, that's where we stood waiting to cross the street when we went shopping 7 and a half months ago!" Stuff like that. I'm sure he's probably making another woman very happy...perhaps for the last 6,205 days, LOL. Yeah, he wasn't for me.

Bad boy experience:
My second husband (whom I'm married to) was a known "bad boy". In his younger days, he got into a lot of fights with other men, sometimes he even started the fights for not much reason at all. He was with a lot of women and says he was usually the one who was approached by women and that he was always upfront he wasn't interested in a relationship. He may have been a bad boy in the past, but at the time at least he was a wolf in wolf's clothing. In other words, he didn't hide who he was (he was too cocky to!), so you knew who you were dealing with, and there's something to be said about that. My husband treats me very well and we're very much in love.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> Understand that I'm not saying "all women" are, but the fact is that there are women who are. That's a fact.


That is my point. Not ALL women, or even most (in my experience), go for the bad boy. 

It's not a rule. It's just a preference for some women.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> As to the promiscuous background. I personally don't have any problems with a woman's past but I I'm not unsympathetic to men who do.
> 
> My only requirement is that her past better be firmly in the past and that includes a level of discreetness.
> 
> ...


I dated a girl who quite openly told me she had lost count of the number of men she'd slept with it had been so many. I didn't care at all at the time. 

I did end the relationship though and realised her serial exploits were out of a misguided notion that she could buy love with her favours. I really hated ending it because she was a truly lovely woman. But she had been so damaged by previous mistreatment that it made her irrational and controlling.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> It wasn't one experience though. It WAS the rule and likely still is the rule. The exception was that the girl who dated the athletes was only 22 when she settled down with the nice guy. They married less than a month after we graduated. A startling exception at the time.


I'm sorry you believe this as rule but understand perspective colors your understanding of the world.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

It's written in our DNA. Women like bad boys and men like young virgins. 

There's literally nothing we can do about it.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Jakobs said:


> It's written in our DNA. Women like bad boys and men like young virgins.
> 
> There's literally nothing we can do about it.


True to a point but I must be an outlier, would I have sex with a hot young 20 something nsa? Hell yeah, would I want a relationship with her, hell no. Give me an age appropriate mature intelligent woman any day of the week.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> @Numb26, By now, we all humans should understand that marriage, not just by a social construct, but also as a biological necessity is based on exchange of commodities, not love. Love/attraction are the biological/social conduit with witch mother nature ensures that the sexes of the species get enticed to perform the act of pairing in order to perpetuate the species. It doesn't matter what people want to believe, because mother nature doesn't care about beliefs, but the nitty gritty business of getting it on with the continuation of the species, all species. This is a scientific fact.


Agreed and as Tina famously sang, "What's Love Got to do with it?"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Another way to look at the picture is the bad boy is actually doing something and women are attracted.

The nice guy is only interested in women and sitting on his butt.

Men who are actively pursuing their own goals are far more attractive to women than men who are simply pursuing them.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

Jamieboy said:


> True to a point but I must be an outlier, would I have sex with a hot young 20 something nsa? Hell yeah, would I want a relationship with her, hell no. Give me an age appropriate mature intelligent woman any day of the week.


Love it how you say you must be an outlier like you have three too-many chromosomes... 

The rule isn't written in stone, I mean... you can, and some do, marry and live a happy life with the divorcé with 3 kids and a Harley Davidson for a mouth but... you'd really have to be a bottom-of-the-barrel beta to accept such a "situation." I mean, who wants a mouthy wife who questions your every move and is incapable of respecting you?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> Love it how you say you must be an outlier like you have three too-many chromosomes...
> 
> The rule isn't written in stone, I mean... you can, and some do, marry and live a happy life with the divorcé with 3 kids and a Harley Davidson for a mouth but... you'd really have to be a bottom-of-the-barrel beta to accept such a "situation." I mean, who wants a mouthy wife who questions your every move and is incapable of respecting you?


You would be suprised how many....especially reading some stories here.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Agreed and as Tina famously sang, "What's Love Got to do with it?"


I was thinking that the song "Hard to Handle", by Otis Redding or the remake by the Black Crowes could be applicable to the photo. But not really, because in that song the "bad boy" wants to light her candle. Great song by the way, but it doesn't fit the guy on the bike. However, I think the attitude and lyrics of the song reflect what the guy on the bike could be offering her. If one views it in the traditional nice guy versus bad boy sense.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Jakobs said:


> Love it how you say you must be an outlier like you have three too-many chromosomes...
> 
> The rule isn't written in stone, I mean... you can, and some do, marry and live a happy life with the divorcé with 3 kids and a Harley Davidson for a mouth but... you'd really have to be a bottom-of-the-barrel beta to accept such a "situation." I mean, who wants a mouthy wife who questions your every move and is incapable of respecting you?


How is your wife's harley BTW? I take it you're still happy with your lot


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jakobs said:


> Love it how you say you must be an outlier like you have three too-many chromosomes...
> 
> The rule isn't written in stone, I mean... you can, and some do, marry and live a happy life with the divorcé with 3 kids and a Harley Davidson for a mouth but... you'd really have to be a bottom-of-the-barrel beta to accept such a "situation." I mean, who wants a mouthy wife who questions your every move and is incapable of respecting you?


He did say mature and intelligent. LoL!

Some "alpha" types actually can handle a saucy woman as well and aren't run over by them.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> He did say mature and intelligent. LoL!
> 
> Some "alpha" types actually can handle a saucy woman as well and aren't run over by them.


Quite a few actually


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Yeah I do. Been a lot of these types of threads lately. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


I agree. Honestly, I was just trying to add some levity around here. I don't take this stuff too seriously at all, but I thought it might be fun to discuss this pic. We certainly discuss random "articles" that already have a slant on this. Usually those articles are written for audiences that already feel that way. So I guess I saw my post as a fun inkblot for everyone to determine what is it that you see in the drawing.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> He did say mature and intelligent. LoL!
> 
> Some "alpha" types actually can handle a saucy woman as well and aren't run over by them.


No they won't.

Alphas don't deal with mouthy women.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> No they won't.
> 
> Alphas don't deal with mouthy women.


They do for fun and for the challenge.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jakobs said:


> No they won't.
> 
> Alphas don't deal with mouthy women.


How do you know? Some "alpha" types (not all) might just enjoy dealing with one.

Maybe she might just be a good match for the right "alpha".

I'm saying he is probably going to be dominant enough, not passive at all.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> How do you know? Some "alpha" types (not all) might just enjoy dealing with one.
> 
> Maybe she might just be a good match for the right "alpha".
> 
> I'm saying he is probably going to be dominant enough, not passive at all.


Props to you for bothering


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Quite a few actually


I don't really subscribe to titles, but I have noticed that my tolerance for partners that some would call "crazy" is much higher than most. Only had one that was too much. Up and down emotions and outbursts simply don't faze me. It's not an alpha or beta thing. You'd have to know my mom LoL. I grew up with it.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't really subscribe to titles, but I have noticed that my tolerance for partners that some would call "crazy" is much higher than most. Only had one that was too much. Up and down emotions and outbursts simply don't faze me. It's not an alpha or beta thing. You'd have to know my mom LoL. I grew up with it.


It has been my experience that the "crazy" carries over to the bedroom which makes it intriguing.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Jakobs said:


> Alphas don't deal with mouthy women.


Oh, they do. Just ask my husband, LOL! --Although I don't consider myself "mouthy" (as in disrespectful), but I do speak my mind with hubby!


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Jakobs said:


> It's written in our DNA. Women like bad boys and men like young virgins.
> 
> There's literally nothing we can do about it.


Disagree. The only men that care about body count are ones with low ones themselves and/or think they are somehow morally superior to the guys and girls who have had it more than them.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> Oh, they do. Just ask my husband, LOL! --Although I don't consider myself "mouthy" (as in disrespectful), but I do speak my mind with hubby!


Easy: he's not alpha. 

He's what is known among real alphas as an "alfalfa male."


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

2&out said:


> Disagree. The only men that care about body count are ones with low ones themselves and/or think they are somehow morally superior to the guys and girls who have had it more than them.


Ohhhh, that is not true.

We DO care about body count. So much so females with his body counts tend to keep their counts a secret so as to not elicit a negative response.

Guys, this is relationships 101.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> How do you know? Some "alpha" types (not all) might just enjoy dealing with one.
> 
> Maybe she might just be a good match for the right "alpha".
> 
> I'm saying he is probably going to be dominant enough, not passive at all.


I know because alphas, as opposed to other males, have multiple options. They get to choose. The rest of us don't.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Jakobs said:


> Easy: he's not alpha.
> 
> He's what is known among real alphas as an "alfalfa male."


LOL. 
I really don't think you understand what a true alpha male is. Entertain me and tell me what you think an alpha male is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jakobs said:


> I know because alphas, as opposed to other males, have multiple options. They get to choose. The rest of us don't.


So you don't think that some "alpha" types might enjoy being with a saucy woman?

Maybe he is dominant enough with high enough personal power to bring the wild thing into a submission to him?

I'm not trying to encourage rowdy behavior in women BTW.

I am saying that there are some women who will only submit to a certain type. Sometimes that "type" really gets his fires stoked by that "type" of woman.

I'll cut to the chase. I had a lot of options. I had my pick and I took a little firecracker that actually gave me a permanent scar on one of my fingers.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jakobs said:


> Easy: he's not alpha.
> 
> He's what is known among real alphas as an "alfalfa male."


I'm stealing "alfalfa"!!!! 🤣🤣🤣


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> So you don't think that some "alpha" types might enjoy being with a saucy woman?
> 
> Maybe he is dominant enough with high enough personal power to bring the wild thing into a submission to him?
> 
> ...


It's the challenge. And some men just aren't up for it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> It's the challenge. And some men just aren't up for it.


I don't even think most should be interested but if she lights his fire? Maybe.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I don't even think most should be interested but if she lights his fire? Maybe.


Maybe


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> Just my personal experience, and it may not have any relevance when considering nice guy versus bad boy in a general sense on the subject as a whole.
> 
> Nice guy experience 1:
> My ex-husband was considered to be a nice, happy-go-lucky type of man. This is how everyone viewed him. He was extremely physically abusive towards me. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
> ...


*Nice guy experience 2:
When I was single and dating, all I wanted was a nice guy and I didn't give a crap about looks and I went on a date with one such man. At the end of the date he tried to kiss me and I backed away and he literally said, "Please kiss me, come on, kiss me...kiss me". He probably told his friends that he went out with a b*tch that wouldn't even kiss him because nice guys finish last, leaving out the fact that he acted creepy AF.*
You probably found this guy creepy when he asked to kiss you because you were not physically attracted to him.
If this guy had been some type of alpha masculine guy at the end of the date kissing would have been mutual, automatic without any of you asking to be kissed. Perhaps had even taken it to another level on that date.
I speak from experience and in the past when I`ve been out on dates I instinctively knew when a girl was into me and had no need to beg for a kiss.
FACT.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> *Nice guy experience 2:
> When I was single and dating, all I wanted was a nice guy and I didn't give a crap about looks and I went on a date with one such man. At the end of the date he tried to kiss me and I backed away and he literally said, "Please kiss me, come on, kiss me...kiss me". He probably told his friends that he went out with a b*tch that wouldn't even kiss him because nice guys finish last, leaving out the fact that he acted creepy AF.*
> You probably found this guy creepy when he asked to kiss you because you were not physically attracted to him.
> If this guy had been some type of alpha masculine guy at the end of the date kissing would have been mutual, automatic without any of you asking to be kissed. Perhaps had even taken it to another level on that date.
> ...


No, I didn't kiss him because I'm a bit conservative in that way. I didn't kiss my husband on our first date either. 

But when that guy said "please kiss me", in other words, like you said "begged", that was a turn off and I had no desire to go on a date with him again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

so_sweet said:


> No, I didn't kiss him because I'm a bit conservative in that way. I didn't kiss my husband on our first date either.
> 
> But when that guy said "please kiss me", in other words, like you said "begged", that was a turn off and I had no desire to go on a date with him again.


Don't blame you


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> *Nice guy experience 2:
> When I was single and dating, all I wanted was a nice guy and I didn't give a crap about looks and I went on a date with one such man. At the end of the date he tried to kiss me and I backed away and he literally said, "Please kiss me, come on, kiss me...kiss me". He probably told his friends that he went out with a b*tch that wouldn't even kiss him because nice guys finish last, leaving out the fact that he acted creepy AF.*
> You probably found this guy creepy when he asked to kiss you because you were not physically attracted to him.
> If this guy had been some type of alpha masculine guy at the end of the date kissing would have been mutual, automatic without any of you asking to be kissed. Perhaps had even taken it to another level on that date.
> ...


You presume a lot about how she would act differently with a different man.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Women that have affairs are predominantly personality-disordered, them choosing 'bad boys' (who would bang some selfish married B anyway) doesn't show anything. 
Decent, emotionally intelligent, mature, healthy women LIKE NICE GUYS DUH.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

so_sweet said:


> Just my personal experience, and it may not have any relevance when considering nice guy versus bad boy in a general sense on the subject as a whole.
> 
> Nice guy experience 1:
> My ex-husband was considered to be a nice, happy-go-lucky type of man. This is how everyone viewed him. He was extremely physically abusive towards me. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
> ...


so you are backing up the idea that nice guys finish last/women want bad boys? Or just saying that you prefer the bad boy?


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> so you are backing up the idea that nice guys finish last/women want bad boys? Or just saying that you prefer the bad boy?


I'm saying neither.
I just happened to fall in love with a bad boy, or maybe I should say a previous bad boy.
I don't think nice guys finish last.
I don't think most women want bad boys, some women might, but probably not most women.

Longer answer:
I was young the first time I got married, 19 yrs old and married off by my parents, and I didn't really have much experience in life. When I was ready to date again after my divorce, I wanted a nice guy. At the time I had not ever even thought of things like bad boys or alpha males.

My ex-husband was physically abusive and I wanted peace in any future relationship and marriage. To say I wanted a bad boy is really kind of nuts. I was a nice girl who wanted a nice guy. Looks meant nothing to me because I always first fell in love with a man's personality, not his face or body, physical attraction for me came after. Yes, I'm human and found men attractive, but that didn't mean I'd want to date them simply because of their good looks. Pretty faces are a dime a dozen but good character is not.

Nice guy experience 4 (1-3 in other post):
Maybe it was just bad luck because the nice guys I dated acted strange in one way or another. For example, I went on a couple of dates with this one guy who I thought was a really great, nice guy. One day we were talking on the phone and he told me he had always wanted to go out with "a light-skinned east-Indian woman" and he went on a bit about that. I didn't appreciate being fetishized and my dating days with him were over.

Bad boy husband:
I didn't set out to date or marry a bad boy.
My husband and I had mutual friends and they filled me in about him. I was a little hesitant but I gave him a chance. We went on a date and really hit it off! Then there were a few more dates and a few more. He asked me to be his girl (be in a relationship with him) and I said no. One day he said, "I love you" and I said, "I really like you". He told me he'd marry me someday, I didn't believe him and told him it was nonsense. I guess I gave him a bit of a hard time but not for any other reason than to protect myself after my horrible first marriage. Obviously I did eventually say "I love you" back and got into a relationship with him and we of course did get married and have been married for 15 years now.

Lastly:
I can't speak for all women, but I have never heard any of my friends say they ever preferred a bad boy over a nice guy and it was never my preference either.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lila said:


> It's perpetuating the myth that nice-guys-finish-last.
> 
> At best it creates unhelpful expectations about how men should behave.
> 
> At worst "it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success. It allows some men to blame and hate women as a means of deflecting attention away from their own shortcomings."


I’m curious - why use “misogynist” in your post? Who is hating women? Who is despising them? Why go to that word so quickly? Why expand its definition?

there is a portion of women out in the world that will go for the bad boy and leave the nice guy on the bench. So be it. Why does the word misogyny come up for this cartoon?

what This cartoon means to me is “don’t be that guy” on the bench. Love yourself. Have confidence in yourself. Don’t be an asshole but don’t be a pushover or a doormat. The right kind of gal will come by when she is turned on by your confidence in yourself.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I’m curious - why use “misogynist” in your post? Who is hating women? Who is despising them? Why go to that word so quickly? Why expand its definition?
> 
> there is a portion of women out in the world that will go for the bad boy and leave the nice guy on the bench. So be it. Why does the word misogyny come up for this cartoon?
> 
> what This cartoon means to me is “don’t be that guy” on the bench. Love yourself. Have confidence in yourself. Don’t be an asshole but don’t be a pushover or a doormat. The right kind of gal will come by when she is turned on by your confidence in yourself.


You focused on the word and not everything else that was written. Note I did say "AT WORST...it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success". The misogynist's idea is that women are deceitful which is why 'nice' guys can't find a date.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lila said:


> You focused on the word and not everything else that was written. Note I did say "AT WORST...it reinforces the misogynist's idea of deceitful women and earnest “nice” men baffled by their lack of dating success". The misogynist's idea is that women are deceitful which is why 'nice' guys can't find a date.


So do you believe “the worst”?

you give the impression that you do. If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me.

you write very compelling arguments. I enjoy reading them. The reason why I didn’t focus on your other words is because you used the word misogyny. Once you do that, you’ve invalidated your argument. ESPECIALLY in the way you used it.

You are expanding the definition of that word. There are no men here hating or despising women. The definition of misogyny you are using here is “man saying something I don’t agree with”.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I don't think the meme shared in the initial post is all that deep. My interpretation of a bad buy vs nice guy is this...

A "bad boy" is somehow unavailable. Maybe he's married or otherwise taken and just fooling around. Maybe he's a single guy that isn't trying to settle down at all, or at least not trying to settle down with YOU. He's off the market. He could also be irredeemably broken. A criminal. A drug user. Whatever. Ladies still waste their time on these guys because maybe they're good looking, fun, good in bed, rich, etc. 

The nice guy is the boring guy, usually. Good traits in people are often boring. The things that make someone a good partner, like loyalty, honesty, they're not exciting. These are the guys who want to build something with you though.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't think the meme shared in the initial post is all that deep. My interpretation of a bad buy vs nice guy is this...
> 
> A "bad boy" is somehow unavailable. Maybe he's married or otherwise taken and just fooling around. Maybe he's a single guy that isn't trying to settle down at all, or at least not trying to settle down with YOU. He's off the market. He could also be irredeemably broken. A criminal. A drug user. Whatever. Ladies still waste their time on these guys because maybe they're good looking, fun, good in bed, rich, etc.
> 
> The nice guy is the boring guy, usually. Good traits in people are often boring. The things that make someone a good partner, like loyalty, honesty, they're not exciting. These are the guys who want to build something with you though.


Another reason that I have heard is that bad boys have no expectations of maturity. They are around to have fun. 
Nice guys, on the other hand, are looking for somebody who is mature and self control and not just around for fun. 
The women, who are attracted to the bad boys, tend to be immature and aren't interested in doing the work to be a compatible mate to a nice guy.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

UAArchangel said:


> Another reason that I have heard is that bad boys have no expectations of maturity. They are around to have fun.
> Nice guys, on the other hand, are looking for somebody who is mature and self control and not just around for fun.
> The women, who are attracted to the bad boys, tend to be immature and aren't interested in doing the work to be a compatible mate to a nice guy.


In my experience, the best way to charm a woman is to show her a good time. Nice guys aren't always good at that. From what I've seen, the ladies that struggle and stay single because they "can't find anyone" are just bouncing from bad boy to bad boy, because they're at least having fun. A lot of them never will settle down. Just endlessly trying to make nice guys as fun as the guys that don't want them.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> So do you believe “the worst”?
> 
> you give the impression that you do. If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me.
> 
> ...


First things first. The word I used is Misogynist. Merriem Webster defines this word as 1. A person who hates or discriminates against women. I do feel that someone who assumes the worst in women is hateful (Merriem definition: 1) full of hate : MALICIOUS. 2: deserving of or arousing hate) and by definition a misogynist.

As far as the cartoon goes, I'm more inclined to believe it's regurgitation of the stereotypical "good guys finish last" trope. As I've already said, in my experience, the bad boys don't have an advantage over the nice guys.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Are people confusing a bad boy with being an asshole?

I dunno....

I've always thought my husband was in the bad boy category or used to be in his younger years just before meeting me (I posted a description earlier in this thread), but the way a bad boy is described in this thread does not fit my husband and the women who end up with one does not describe me.


UAArchangel said:


> Another reason that I have heard is that bad boys have no expectations of maturity. They are around to have fun.





UAArchangel said:


> The women, who are attracted to the bad boys, tend to be immature and aren't interested in doing the work to be a compatible mate to a nice guy.


Also my father was married to my mother 2 months shy of 50 years because he passed away. They dated in the 1960s and my mother told me my dad would disappear on his motorcycle for months without word. He sounded like a bit of a bad boy in his youth, but once married, he was a family man.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> Are people confusing a bad boy with being an asshole?
> 
> I dunno....
> 
> ...


Just like there are two types of nice guys, the dysfunctional wimp and the productive individual that wants to be a family man from his youth, there are probably also two types of bad boys. They are both not interested in commitment, but one is an a-hole, who likes hurting women, and then you have the kind that is a fairly harmless, but he's adventurous and he's just not willing to commit.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lila said:


> First things first. The word I used is Misogynist. Merriem Webster defines this word as 1. A person who hates or discriminates against women. I do feel that someone who assumes the worst in women is hateful (Merriem definition: 1) full of hate : MALICIOUS. 2: deserving of or arousing hate) and by definition a misogynist.
> 
> As far as the cartoon goes, I'm more inclined to believe it's regurgitation of the stereotypical "good guys finish last" trope. As I've already said, in my experience, the bad boys don't have an advantage over the nice guys.


Ok. I think it is a stretch to think that a man thinking the worst in women is considered hateful, but each their own. Could be that he’s just been burned and is twice shy. Not necessarily hating, in my opinion. 

considering the common stereotype that good guys finish last is also a stretch to equate to misogyny.

also, if it isn’t obvious, I despise that word. It’s one of the few words my feminist exwife was NOT allowed to use in our house out of respect for me and our son as the definition got stretched quite a bit.

much like I think you are still doing here. Disagreement is not hatred.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

UAArchangel said:


> there are probably also two types of bad boys.


I think you're right about this.


UAArchangel said:


> then you have the kind that is a fairly harmless, but he's adventurous and he's just not willing to commit.


Perhaps until they do meet a woman they want to get married to!
I mean 15 years of marriage and raising four boys sounds pretty committed to me, lol.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

so_sweet said:


> I think you're right about this.
> 
> Perhaps until they do meet a woman they want to commit to and marry!
> I mean 15 years of marriage and raising four boys sounds pretty committed to me, lol.


You tamed him, yet you still love him.

Have you ever tried to change him?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I see a very passive nice guy with a easel and a bunch of colored pencils.

The problem with this is the match book head should just be moving on instead of pining away, besides his matches are all wet with his tears and he ain't lighting any woman's candles. 

When you go check out cars to buy, if one doesn't start you get out of that one and get into the next one. You don't sit in the car and cry. It's that instinct to sit in the car and cry that turns women off.

The good men who marry good women, deal with women who chase bad boys too, but they end up married because once they figure out they are wasting their time they move on and eventually they find the good women. The passive nice guys whine and complain. 

They are actually the same thing that they complain about desperate for someone who just kills his spirit. 

Honestly though most of these guys are passive and aren't bold enough to get someone to like them. They are always hedging their bets by trying to be friends first for fear of rejection, then hoping magically it will turn into romance. I really don't think most women operate like that a better strategy is to just say what you want. 

It's just a fact that Women like assertive Men, some women mistake assertiveness for character though. So bad boys are assertive and that is attractive and insecure women tend to be willing to put up with his crap. Best to just leave those women alone. 

The difference is a good guy does this, but the bad boys use them for sex and thus just reinforce what these women think of themselves. 

Again it's a train wreck and why you don't sit on the bench.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ok. I think it is a stretch to think that a man thinking the worst in women is considered hateful, but each their own. Could be that he’s just been burned and is twice shy. Not necessarily hating, in my opinion.
> 
> considering the common stereotype that good guys finish last is also a stretch to equate to misogyny.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you find the word triggering but at the same time, your feelings don't invalidate my argument. 

Agree to disagree.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Lila said:


> As far as the cartoon goes, I'm more inclined to believe it's regurgitation of the stereotypical "good guys finish last" trope. As I've already said, in my experience, the bad boys don't have an advantage over the nice guys.





ReformedHubby said:


> View attachment 95541


Well the beta chump on the bench has obviously brought her to life, lit her fire, by convincing her she is top shelf. He obviously is out to bone her but she friendzoned him years ago...

Meanwhile Alpha motor cycle dude comes along and she asks him if she really is top shelf. He would know because he exhudes confidence. He says not really, but she can hop on his bike for a ride. She hops on.

Beta chump cries.

Once Alpha dude gets done with her she will return to beta chump all deflated looking for affirmation and the cycle will repeat. Thus the matchbook.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> You tamed him, yet you still love him.
> 
> Have you ever tried to change him?


I think saying I tamed him is a compliment, so thank-you! But I'm not sure if it's true. I'm not saying I'm someone spectacular but I am confident that he fell head over heels for me on our first date. Perhaps he tamed himself then? Oh, I don't know.

I've never tried to change him. I didn't really have anything to change. I have helped him in the past with stuff like preparing him for a job interview by sitting with him and conducting mock job interviews, helped him with his resume...etc., before he had his own business, but I don't think that's considered changing him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

so_sweet said:


> "Today is the 3rd of November which is the 18th week anniversary of when we first held hands".


hahaha. WTF??!?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lila said:


> I'm sorry you find the word triggering but at the same time, your feelings don't invalidate my argument.
> 
> Agree to disagree.


Not triggered. I just notice strong language when I see it. I prefer words to be used in the proper context instead being used inappropriately. 

My feelings have nothing to do with invalidating your argument. Using words incorrectly did that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Not triggered. I just notice strong language when I see it. I prefer words to be used in the proper context instead being used inappropriately.
> 
> My feelings have nothing to do with invalidating your argument. Using words incorrectly did that.


Well, I did recognize the point she was making.

At it's worst, the picture could be representing women (most or even all) as pathetically stupid.

Now I believe the artist (or those behind the crafting of it) are wrong about several assumptions.

I have the "benefit" of knowledge from my misspent youth and loads of women.

I don't see all women as stupid because certain traits might be attractive to many or even most 

I also don't necessarily view the guy on the bike as some kind of bad guy or the guy on the bench as good.

At it's worst interpretation, the picture does portray women as pathetically defective and not knowing what's good for them. That would be misogyny.

@Lila wasn't saying that the picture definitely represented misogyny but, at it's worst interpretation (women being fing stupid) it would represent that.

I might be incorrect but that's how I read her post.

I also fully believe the terms "nice guy" and " bad boy" have extremely varying definitions.

I'm pretty sure I use to be a "bad boy" for a while in my youth but I never intentionally harmed a woman or just used them. I actually was a threatening presence that guaranteed their safety.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

so_sweet said:


> I think saying I tamed him is a compliment, so thank-you! But I'm not sure if it's true. I'm not saying I'm someone spectacular but I am confident that he fell head over heels for me on our first date. Perhaps he tamed himself then? Oh, I don't know.
> 
> I've never tried to change him. I didn't really have anything to change. I have helped him in the past with stuff like preparing him for a job interview by sitting with him and conducting mock job interviews, helped him with his resume...etc., before he had his own business, but I don't think that's considered changing him.


Did you ever had to push him for commitment, availability? Just curious 'tis all.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

.


RandomDude said:


> Did you ever had to push him for commitment, availability? Just curious 'tis all.


No, never.


so_sweet said:


> He asked me to be his girl (be in a relationship with him) and I said no. One day he said, "I love you" and I said, "I really like you". He told me he'd marry me someday, I didn't believe him and told him it was nonsense. I guess I gave him a bit of a hard time but not for any other reason than to protect myself after my horrible first marriage. Obviously I did eventually say "I love you" back and got into a relationship with him and we of course did get married and have been married for 15 years now.


Just to clarify, when he said he'd marry me someday, I knew he was being sincere, I didn't believe him because marriage was not on my mind at the time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

so_sweet said:


> .
> 
> No, never.
> 
> Just to clarify, when he said he'd marry me someday, I knew he was being sincere, I didn't believe him because marriage was not on my mind at the time.


I told Mrs. C that I loved her and wanted to marry her three days into our relationship. She said I was crazy. She wasn't really wrong but I knew what I knew.


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

The picture means, only people who are not bright will believe that picture has a real meaning about how reality and dating works.
That is why there are fire devises instead of heads making a fool believe he is enlighted by this illustration. The fire devises are symbolising the brainlessness of some men when it comes to women and life and how those men are fantasizing about equally brainless women.

It was drawn by someone who is far more cleverer then the people he drew the picture for. His intention was not to help, but to enhance his customers insecurities so they'll continue buying his stuff.
He is sitting in his chair and laughing his ass off, that some men are buying his sh***.
That is how the industry works...


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## Firecat (4 d ago)

so_sweet said:


> LOL.
> I really don't think you understand what a true alpha male is. Entertain me and tell me what you think an alpha male is.


I think of alpha as meaning non-approval-seeking - that is, he does what he wants, rather than try to get the approval of others. 

The beta does what he thinks will make women happy, but it just turns women off.

The alpha does what makes him happy, and it ends up lighting women's fire and making them happy.

I don't think the picture is accurate because it's from the perspective of the beta thinking he's the one who lights the woman's fire. But in fact he's just trying to please (covert contracts).

The picture can apply with the sexes reversed as well. I showed it to a girl I'm seeing and she felt like the nice guy, in that I chase after girls who hurt me but then come back to her afterwards.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

elliblue said:


> The picture means, only people who are not bright will believe that picture has a real meaning about how reality and dating works.
> That is why there are fire devises instead of heads making a fool believe he is enlighted by this illustration. The fire devises are symbolising the brainlessness of some men when it comes to women and life and how those men are fantasizing about equally brainless women.
> 
> It was drawn by someone who is far more cleverer then the people he drew the picture for. His intention was not to help, but to enhance his customers insecurities so they'll continue buying his stuff.
> ...


This is one nasty post IMO.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

heather42 said:


> This is one nasty post IMO.


First time?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

elliblue said:


> The picture means, only people who are not bright will believe that picture has a real meaning about how reality and dating works.
> That is why there are fire devises instead of heads making a fool believe he is enlighted by this illustration. The fire devises are symbolising the brainlessness of some men when it comes to women and life and how those men are fantasizing about equally brainless women.
> 
> It was drawn by someone who is far more cleverer then the people he drew the picture for. His intention was not to help, but to enhance his customers insecurities so they'll continue buying his stuff.
> ...


LoL, you might be right. I don't know who the original creator of it is, but this stuff is profitable for those that peddle it. I can't say I feel it represents society as a whole IMO. I honestly don't even think the material is even all that helpful to the "nice guys". To me most of it just reinforces the narrative that their plight is hopeless, and I don't agree with that. I don't think it's profitable for them to actually provide advice that would help. On the flip side. I am sooooooooo tired of how these articles portray men they consider to be alpha. They aren't nuanced at all. They are more like exaggerated stereotypes of masculinity. IMO they make it sound like the "alpha" males are just as clueless as the women that are with them. Supposedly most are emotionally unavailable and incapable of love, wouldn't make good dad's, and they might even be abusive. This is a fairy tale. It just reinforces the nice guys illusion that he is the better choice and is getting cheated out of what he deserves. I can honestly say that most of my former "player" friends might be some of the best dad's a daughter could have, because well....they know how boys are!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Not triggered. I just notice strong language when I see it. I prefer words to be used in the proper context instead being used inappropriately.
> 
> My feelings have nothing to do with invalidating your argument. Using words incorrectly did that.


I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment that I used the word incorrectly. I used the word correctly. Now stop being an asshole and lashing out at me because of a word your ex wife used to piss you off.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Not triggered. I just notice strong language when I see it. I prefer words to be used in the proper context instead being used inappropriately.
> 
> My feelings have nothing to do with invalidating your argument. Using words incorrectly did that.


You're definitely triggered. While you're certainly free to keep posting in this thread. My intention was for it to be light hearted. Hence the cartoon.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Lila said:


> I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment that I used the word incorrectly. I used the word correctly. Now stop being an asshole and lashing out at me because of a word your ex wife used to piss you off.


Gosh... now I have to try and find the word... 

EDIT: found it! I t was easy...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sokillme said:


> hahaha. WTF??!?


I remember the date and the time of our first kiss...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I don’t know about the picture but I can say when I was in college I punched way above my attractiveness weight class because I smoked, I drank, I had illegal drugs, and I played loud rock guitar. 

A girl I thought I had no chance with ever who, to this day, I still haven’t seen a woman I thought was as pretty as her (what I like) went out with me a few times.

She didn’t do any of those things but she was attracted to the idea of them I think. 

My wife is kind of like that now. She never parties or anything and would not go with me to a death metal show but if she happens to be at a show she‘s like get in the pit and go nuts. She likes to be adjacent to the “bad” while remaining squeaky clean herself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Early in the thread Sons of Anarchy was brought up, a lot of those are bad girls with bad boys. There are bad girls too; I can’t picture one of those ladies with someone like a UPS delivery guy unless they were super edgy while off the clock or they’re one of those guys who gets busted for felony mail theft.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Early in the thread Sons of Anarchy was brought up, a lot of those are bad girls with bad boys. There are bad girls too; I can’t picture one of those ladies with someone like a UPS delivery guy unless they were super edgy while off the clock or they’re one of those guys who gets busted for felony mail theft.


Actually this is a very valid point IMO. I think the "Bad Boys" as defined would find good girls boring. People tend to know what they want. Even bad boys and bad girls. I can remember being rejected a few times because I was told I was too pretty, or I prefer a "roughneck" (90s term) kind of guy. Nobody is everyone's type. That's absurd. We just don't internalize someone not being interested in us as some sort of huge societal problem or personal insult.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Early in the thread Sons of Anarchy was brought up, a lot of those are bad girls with bad boys. There are bad girls too; I can’t picture one of those ladies with someone like a UPS delivery guy unless they were super edgy while off the clock or they’re one of those guys who gets busted for felony mail theft.


As Trump said, some women just want you to grab em by the p***y.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I specifically avoided "good girls" back in the day.

A lot of them took their shot and a couple played at being "bad" well enough that they hit the target but they couldn't hide their emotions afterward.

I'm glad "bad girls" were brought up. There are plenty of women who know well what they want and sometimes it's a ride on a bike.😉


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I specifically avoided "good girls" back in the day.
> 
> A lot of them took their shot and a couple played at being "bad" well enough that they hit the target but they couldn't hide their emotions afterward.
> 
> I'm glad "bad girls" were brought up. There are plenty of women who know well what they want and sometimes it's a ride on a bike.😉


I lean more towards "bad girls" myself


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I lean more towards "bad girls" myself


LoL, me too. My type is actually the bad girl that hangs out with the good girls, and a lifetime of experience has taught me that they do exist.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I specifically avoided "good girls" back in the day.
> 
> A lot of them took their shot and a couple played at being "bad" well enough that they hit the target but they couldn't hide their emotions afterward.
> 
> I'm glad "bad girls" were brought up. There are plenty of women who know well what they want and sometimes it's a ride on a bike.😉


In my high school it wasn't clear who were the "bad" girls. You definitely had the brighter girls in the accelerated classes and the girls who came from money.

I was definitively a weird but cool girl. Some might have considered me bad. Not sure.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah my MIL was a bad girl in her day. Fighting in school, stabbing people with combs and such. I miss her she liked me a lot hahah… She said, “You seem normal but I can see your horns, I know.”


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FWIW I like good girls who are attracted to edgy men. They’re like, “oh no I could never do that” but then you do it and they secretly like it although they would never admit it out loud. They can experience 30% of the thrill of being bad without actually being bad.

Actual bad girls, somewhat scary.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Actual bad girls, somewhat scary.


That's the point. 🙂


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

heather42 said:


> In my high school it wasn't clear who were the "bad" girls. You definitely had the brighter girls in the accelerated classes and the girls who came from money.
> 
> I was definitively a weird but cool girl. Some might have considered me bad. Not sure.


Honestly, being candid. I don't think most young ladies knew they were running with a "bad girl" in high school. So much of my understanding about women came from intimate moments when they were away from the "pack" if that makes sense. Overtime it became clear to me that woman can be two different things. One's sexual identity can be completely opposite from who they are in public. I'm not complaining, but I will just say the bad girls were wise beyond their years, and certain guys knew exactly whom they were, rather they wanted to or not.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

My interpretation:

She walks up to this guy and immediately thinks "Big nose...big hose!" She then gets so hot she spontaneously ignites.

At least that's how I see it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I specifically avoided "good girls" back in the day.
> 
> A lot of them took their shot and a couple played at being "bad" well enough that they hit the target but they couldn't hide their emotions afterward.
> 
> I'm glad "bad girls" were brought up. There are plenty of women who know well what they want and sometimes it's a ride on a bike.😉


Mmmm... worth a thread actually...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I would like to hear from the bad girls of TAM.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Firecat said:


> I think of alpha as meaning non-approval-seeking - that is, he does what he wants, rather than try to get the approval of others.
> 
> The beta does what he thinks will make women happy, but it just turns women off.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for sharing what you think an alpha male is.  



Jakobs said:


> Easy: he's not alpha.
> 
> He's what is known among real alphas as an "alfalfa male."


I was specifically asking @Jakobs because he called my husband an "alfalfa male". I was interested to know his definition of an alpha male, but it appears he's only interested in name-calling like a weak little man. 

As a side note: I don't think an alpha male is better than a man who is not. Everyone is different and that's one of the things that make the world a beautiful place.


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## Firecat (4 d ago)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, thanks for sharing what you think an alpha male is.
> 
> 
> I was specifically asking @Jakobs because he called my husband an "alfalfa male". I was interested to know his definition of an alpha male, but it appears he's only interested in name-calling like a weak little man.
> ...


I think being needy and insecure are harmful and bad things, so everyone should try to be less needy and insecure, that is, more alpha.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Keeping up with all the labels is exhausting....sigh!!!!


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, thanks for sharing what you think an alpha male is.
> 
> 
> I was specifically asking @Jakobs because he called my husband an "alfalfa male". I was interested to know his definition of an alpha male, but it appears he's only interested in name-calling like a weak little man.
> ...


He probably moved on to a more interesting topic of conversation. I got bored with this thread quickly. But it's interesting that comment got under your skin so much.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

gaius said:


> He probably moved on to a more interesting topic of conversation.* I got bored with this thread quickly*. But it's interesting that comment got under your skin so much.


That's because you have the attention span of an avocado. Remember? LOL.

Oh, and internet comments don't get under my skin. A vagrant on the street could yell something at me and that wouldn't get under my skin either.

@ConanHub sorry for stealing your avocado line! I had never heard of it before, but what a gem! lol


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

so_sweet said:


> That's because you have the attention span of an avocado. Remember? LOL.
> 
> Oh, and internet comments don't get under my skin. A vagrant on the street could yell something at me and that wouldn't get under my skin either.
> 
> @ConanHub sorry for stealing your avocado line! I had never heard of it before, but what a gem! lol


Steal away! I stole "alfalfa" and I'm not giving it back!🤣


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