# Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?



## bandit.45

I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this. 

I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility. 

I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60. 

My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing. 

I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future. 

The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up. 

So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello. 

I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


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## jld

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


I'm sure you are going to heaven, bandit. Dug says everybody goes to heaven.

But gosh, I would like to see you enjoy your life in the meantime.

What is your diet like?


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## Adelais

I'm sorry you feel your prospects are so bleak, @bandit.45. If you had a good relationship with a woman, do you believe you would feel differently?

I empathize with your bleak outlook considering you believe you will not have enough $ to retire much less pay your health bills, while your body is showing signs of aging, and it will only get worse.

I hope you do not commit suicide. You are a valuable person to mankind, and to God. You make me laugh here, I appreciate your clear headed posts. I'm sure many, many other people feel the same way about you.

Regarding whether a person will go to heaven if they commit suicide. I don't know. God knows our emotional pain, and I believe he understands that it can become too much for some. Lately, however, I've realized I haven't fully understood the role Jesus played when he came, died and resurrected. He knew what was coming. As a man, he cried and begged God to let the cup (of a torturous death) pass from him. He could have committed suicide that night, and save himself a lot of pain, but he didn't.

He knows how we feel, he felt it and worse.

God bought you with a price: God gave his own life for all your transgressions (when he took the form of man, "Jesus") That is how much God loves you! 1 Corinthians 6:20

I don't know if killing oneself constitutes murder, but even murder doesn't condemn one to hell, if one is repentant, in great pain and has accepted God's sacrifice for our own sins.

Can you find a church of like minded people, and develop some deeper relationships there? Serve somehow? Serving others, by giving your time, labor, prayers, consideration, is a good way to get the mind off one's own problems.

I know I didn't give you the "Yes" or "No" answer you were hoping for, but I hope I gave you some food for thought. I will keep you in my prayers.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You sound depressed. Much of your posts has all of the earmarks of depression. Have you seen anyone professionally about this situation? As to your question? I won't answer it because some would not like my answer and you are in a fragile state of mind. Before you do anything go see if you are depressed. Depression isn't like the flu, it suddenly shows up and you get over it. There are people who do not realize they are depressed for decades, until they sit down with someone who can see all of the signs and assess them correctly.

Good luck Bandit. Please, don't make any rash or hurried decisions.


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## *Deidre*

Christians, especially those mean spirited types that I've also encountered, have no right to judge anyone's eternal destiny. No one does. My concern for you is that you see your life as bleak, based on worldly reasons. It's so very easy to get caught up in the world, bandit. The world tells us that we are nothing if we don't have a certain type of partner, or job, or whatever. It's easy to get caught up in all that. I'll be praying for you to have a change of heart, and know that God loves you, and that there is a lot to life that awaits you. Also, you might want to explore some Buddhist ideas, as they can be helpful also to seeing life from a different perspective and finding peace within. If you are into prayer, great...if not, meditation - just sitting and emptying your mind from all the noise, for 15 minutes a day - can really do wonders.


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## Kivlor

@bandit.45

Personal opinion on this, not official dogma... People aren't "barred" from heaven. Heaven is eternally being in the grace and glory of your Creator. IMO hell is not demons, pitchforks, lakes of lava, hellfire, etc, it is eternal darkness. These are states of existence, not "rewards" and "punishments". From that idea of "hell"... by committing suicide, someone rejects the one gift their Creator gave them, their minds clouded by the darkness that led to such a complete rejection, how could we find our way to his Light? Those who are in such a mindset, I feel, are ill-equipped to find their way to their Creator in the afterlife.


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## Adelais

philly is right, @bandit.45. I was feeling very depressed a month ago, and got on antidepression meds. Although the real life situations that were depressing me have not changed, at least I am not feeling like I can't take another day of it.

It didn't take but a couple of days for the AD meds to kick in and for the depression to lift. Go see your Dr. and ask for AD meds. That is a good first step to improving your outlook, even if nothing else changes.


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## Ms. GP

I think suicide is the result severely damaged brain chemistry due to untreated or undertreated depression. I don't see how any clinician could see a person suffering from suicidal ideations and not say they are depressed. Depression is an illness, and I don't see how a loving God could send a sick person to hell for succumbing to their illness.

Is your group a men's only group? I'm all for men with men and women with women the first year. We have all seen what a disaster that can lead too!! But, I have also seen some pretty happy relationships when both parties have over a year before they start dating. I think you have an amazing handle on your physical sobriety, but what about your emotional sobriety? Unity, recovery, and service are the 3 parts of the triangle. It sounds like you are kicking azz in the recovery and service part. But what does the unity part mean to you? To me, it means am I having fun with my recovery? Am I hanging out with my recovery peeps and having fun? Helping newcomers is awesome, but you're right they are a mess and it can be draining. My question is, who's helping you? Who fills your cup up and makes you laugh?


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## GTdad

Damn.

I'm a pretty lousy theologian, but from what I understand there are only two unforgiveable sins. One is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I've heard some guys talk about it, but I still can't wrap my head around what it means. The other as I recall to be taking the mark of the beast in the End Times. God is ready to forgive anything else if you're His child. I think He'll wrap you in His arms and take your pain away.

I wish you'd let Him do that now, and skip the eating a bullet part. I'm sorry as hell that things look so bleak, but you have a lot of offer the world, women or no women. Life can be a bastard, but never let the bastards win.


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## bandit.45

jld said:


> I'm sure you are going to heaven, bandit. Dug says everybody goes to heaven.
> 
> But gosh, I would like to see you enjoy your life in the meantime.
> 
> What is your diet like?


Pretty wholesome. No fast foods. Limited red meat, and then mostly wild game. I eat lots of oily fish and organic chicken. Loads of vegetables, fruit, legumes and I always start the day with oatmeal. I have been tested for gluten intolerance and do not have it, nor do I have any food allergies. I consume acedophilus enriched yogurt for my digestion. I also drink lots of green tea, Yerba mate kombucha. So I'm getting all the healthy microbes. No sugar. And I try to lay off the carbs as much as possible. 

I probably eat too many eggs and potatoes, but I'm not giving those up.


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## bandit.45

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You sound depressed. Much of your posts has all of the earmarks of depression. Have you seen anyone professionally about this situation? As to your question? I won't answer it because some would not like my answer and you are in a fragile state of mind. Before you do anything go see if you are depressed. Depression isn't like the flu, it suddenly shows up and you get over it. There are people who do not realize they are depressed for decades, until they sit down with someone who can see all of the signs and assess them correctly.
> 
> Good luck Bandit. Please, don't make any rash or hurried decisions.


I've been tested recently with a full psychological work up and I do not have depression. No psychosis. I am perfectly in control of my faculties. And for the most part I enjoy life....right now. But I don't see that in my future. 

I'm talking twelve or fifteen years down the road philly. 

I am however jaded and disillusioned with mankind and the world. I hate how people sh!t on the ones they profess to love, how people are so cruel and selfish and care only about number one. Marriages going kablooey all around me, no one valuing traditional values or mores. Sexual greed. Monetary greed..... It is overwhelming. 

And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.


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## bandit.45

Ms. GP said:


> I think suicide is the result severely damaged brain chemistry due to untreated or undertreated depression. I don't see how any clinician could see a person suffering from suicidal ideations and not say they are depressed. Depression is an illness, and I don't see how a loving God could send a sick person to hell for succumbing to their illness.
> 
> Is your group a men's only group? I'm all for men with men and women with women the first year. We have all seen what a disaster that can lead too!! But, I have also seen some pretty happy relationships when both parties have over a year before they start dating. I think you have an amazing handle on your physical sobriety, but what about your emotional sobriety? Unity, recovery, and service are the 3 parts of the triangle. It sounds like you are kicking azz in the recovery and service part. But what does the unity part mean to you? To me, it means am I having fun with my recovery? Am I hanging out with my recovery peeps and having fun? Helping newcomers is awesome, but you're right they are a mess and it can be draining. My question is, who's helping you? Who fills your cup up and makes you laugh?


The unity part is definitely where I am lacking and I am trying to extend myself out there. You raise a solid point. Thank you.


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## Sbrown

Find a low t center. I'm betting it'll change your life. Even if your regular dr says your levels are "normal" for a guy your age. Find a specialist and I'd wager you'll be feeling great in a few short months. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Sbrown said:


> Find a low t center. I'm betting it'll change your life. Even if your regular dr says your levels are "normal" for a guy your age. Find a specialist and I'd wager you'll be feeling great in a few short months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


 I may try that. Thanks.


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## rich84

Bandit. Find another doctor. Try the antidepressants. People with far worse predicaments find joy in life. It's a matter of attitude and brain chemistry. You sound as if you find joy in nothing. And that is what depression is. Find another doctor. 

I'm an atheist. But faith is just belief in spite of uncertainty. None of us can be sure of our fate after our last breath. If you believe that there is an eternal hell, and that suicide could potentially land you there, why risk it? 

Oh, and find another doctor. Try the antidepressants. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kivlor

bandit.45 said:


> And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.


This is an honest fear of mine, 40+ years down the road. I've always figured that when that day comes, I'll make my way out west, armed with only a knife, and go grizzly bear hunting. It doesn't count as "suicide" IMO. It's fighting for your life. And if you win (through some miracle, or by being the reincarnation of Hugh Glass), you get to take it home, and when your kids come to put you in the home for the dying, you can put the knife on a table, and tell them the story, and end it with "If you think you're taking me there, you can take the knife, and I'll be the grizzly."

Fortunately, from a statistical analysis, my life span is probably <25 more years. So, there's that going for me.


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## NoChoice

OP,
I regretfully cannot offer an opinion on your ultimate destination as I do not believe there is "life" after this, at least not in the sense we think of life, having consciousness and feelings, etc., etc.. However, I do share your pragmatic view of the future. That view is understandable for someone like myself but I find it curious that a "born again christian" would have these ruminations.

I was once told by a relative that intelligence was a curse, a cross to bear if you will. I was fairly young at the time and had not yet fully experienced the gross lack of intellect that permeates this planet. Therefore when he told me this I was hesitant to accept his conclusion. Now that I have experienced this for many years, I do fully concur with his assessment. Sadly my friend you have too much intelligence to be fully happy.

You see yourself on the Titanic and are cognizant of the final outcome while most of the rest of humanity dances to the band, enjoying life as if there were no tomorrow. Meanwhile, you watch as the water slowly rises, unable to deflect your thoughts of impending doom. You even try to bail (eat right, exercise) in an effort to forestall the inevitable and these things can slow the onset but not prevent them, the ship is eventually going down.

What I have tried to do is to redirect my attention away from me and onto others. I have several grandchildren and have found some solace in trying to offer them whatever I can in the way of guidance and companionship. I never had a grandfather and find it a privilege to now be one. I still hurt every day and I still know the end of the road is rising up to meet me but I will continue to fight on for them. However, at some point when the benefits of living are few and far between I may indeed choose to move on to whatever lies beyond.

As to your question I can only offer a logical assumption by saying that if there does indeed exist a being which created all of this then it would seem counter intuitive to create that which one does not like. Therefore, it would seem prudent to expect that this being would prefer you and it spend the afterlife together and would make allowances for all but the most heinous of offenses by looking at the heart of his creation.

One last thought to consider is that life is dynamic. The way you feel today may be completely different from the way you feel tomorrow and it is that expectation or hope that many people find comforting and reason enough to embrace the future. It is my sincere wish that you find your hope.


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## giddiot

Bandit I am a believer of once saved always saved. I did a lot of personal research on this and talked to trusted knowledgeable people and I truly believe that you can't lose your grace by committing suicide. For one thing you would be pretty desperate to actually do this when it comes down to it ant God would be there for you. 

I have the same feeling as you, no way I will end up in a nursing home. I am at the end of caring for my father for the last 10 years or so. He ended up in nursing care for the last three years. Not fun. 

I understand how you feel, I have been there. I have gotten pretty close to facing a natural end of life and am at that crossroads once again with my heart issues. Having been there before I realize how badly my loved ones will feel, they have been through that fear. Life is precious.

If you need someone to talk to PM me.


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## Red Sonja

Bandito, I want to tell you that I understand everything you posted and your reasoning. I have thought about this subject in the exact same way, many times. It’s about evaluating the circumstances you need to be content in life and for that life to be meaningful for you. And, when/if the circumstances make fostering your needs impossible then choosing to exit this life on your terms. It is about knowing your self well (introspection) and then making a rational choice.

An additional question that I would advise you to consider before you make a decision is: “Is there anything that I can contribute to the world that makes it a better place and will I find some joy in doing it?” This is the question I pondered for a long time after my life blew up. Turns out my answer to that question was “yes” and now I am doing that “anything” regularly. I will be 60 years old in two weeks; I am content and some days very happy.

My circumstances are a bit more fortunate than what you describe. Yes I have some minor health issues that come with age but I don’t have the chronic pain that you live with. I don’t have any serious financial worries at the moment but one health crisis could change that. I have given serious thought to what my limits of tolerance for continued life may be and, have already decided that when that limit is reached I will make the choice to exit this life.

I cannot advise you on heaven but I wanted you to know that I understand and respect your thought process in this matter.


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## SimplyAmorous

bandit.45 said:


> I've been tested recently with a full psychological work up and I do not have depression. No psychosis. I am perfectly in control of my faculties. And for the most part I enjoy life....right now. But I don't see that in my future.
> 
> I'm talking twelve or fifteen years down the road philly.
> 
> * I am however jaded and disillusioned with mankind and the world. I hate how people sh!t on the ones they profess to love, how people are so cruel and selfish and care only about number one. Marriages going kablooey all around me, no one valuing traditional values or mores. Sexual greed. Monetary greed..... It is overwhelming. *
> 
> And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.


 The part bolded in blue... ya know there are other people who FEEL like you do.. I dearly hope you can meet up with a woman who feels the same.. I think just finding a friend who feels similar.. where you can let your hair down with.. could do wonders for anyone.. not feeling so alone in the world. 

We have an older male friend from our church.. I lost my religion some time ago -so not that I really understand what it is some feel on suicide.. but how you Feel here is how he has talked to us , opening up...his health is failing, diabetes getting worse, he sucks with women, he feels he has nothing to live for.. he does go to church...his sister is a mess, she's on & off drugs... tried to overdose a # of times.. he's been the one stable individual in her life... I feel this has given him some sense of purpose even... to be there for her... 

We haven't caught up with him for some time.. since we are no longer going to church.. but still I've seen others in his life that VALUE him.. that care for him. he has downplayed it.. our kids loved him.. it would hurt so many if he did this.. just as it would hurt others if you did this.. 

Who do you have in your life Bandit.45 - you sound like a GOOD MAN to me.. with much to offer.. just down on yourself, a more pessimistic outlook -it happens, I understand.... I must admit.. I would hate it if my health was failing.. I also would not want to be in a nursing home.. 

I am in "Direct care".. it's not pretty.. sometimes I hate my Job... 

I kinda like Jack Kevorkian - saying this to Christians - you can only imagine the looks I get , that's like saying you worship Satan or something...I have been told they will pray for me..

I was visiting Suicide forums a year ago... worrying about our son (devastating 1st love break up), I was on my knees again....I even bought a book on Suicide....so much more common in men, because they don't reach out.. they want to take it all "like a man".. but they hurt too... Everyone needs someone sometimes.. 

I am hoping you find some measure of peace here... or someone new to enter your life.. that will bring a smile to your face, that you'll want to share some of the burdens with each other... You're just not alone.. even if you don't see it right now.


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## giddiot

Get the book 'Eternal Security' by Dr Charles Stanley, it's a good resource and explains it. By the way I lost 70% of my retirement in 2008 also and there is no time for it to recover. I am disillusioned with our country these days.


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## jorgegene

You wanted opinions; here's one:

nobody decides who gets into heaven, except the Lord Jesus.

If you are right with him, you'll be there.


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## bandit.45

Kivlor said:


> This is an honest fear of mine, 40+ years down the road. I've always figured that when that day comes, I'll make my way out west, armed with only a knife, and go grizzly bear hunting. It doesn't count as "suicide" IMO. It's fighting for your life. And if you win (through some miracle, or by being the reincarnation of Hugh Glass), you get to take it home, and when your kids come to put you in the home for the dying, you can put the knife on a table, and tell them the story, and end it with "If you think you're taking me there, you can take the knife, and I'll be the grizzly."
> 
> Fortunately, from a statistical analysis, my life span is probably <25 more years. So, there's that going for me.


I like this. But my fear is I won't be healthy enough to work much past 75. That would be my ceiling of usefulness. I'm almost tempted to forgo trying to save up any more retirement and just use that money to travel and enjoy the last two decades of my life and then leave this world with dignity.


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## 225985

Are you in your late 40s?

I was also going to suggest getting your testosterone levels checked. I got mine done last week. 

Are you lifting weights? That is a must. Read the book "Younger Next Year"

Eggs are good. The old myths were debunked. 

Let's get you fixed. Heaven can wait.


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## bandit.45

rich84 said:


> Bandit. Find another doctor. Try the antidepressants. People with far worse predicaments find joy in life. It's a matter of attitude and brain chemistry. You sound as if you find joy in nothing. And that is what depression is. Find another doctor.
> 
> I'm an atheist. But faith is just belief in spite of uncertainty. None of us can be sure of our fate after our last breath. If you believe that there is an eternal hell, and that suicide could potentially land you there, why risk it?
> 
> Oh, and find another doctor. Try the antidepressants.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again I'm not depressed. I just went through a battery of psychological exams six months ago and I'm not depressed or "suicidal" in the strict meaning of the term. My blood work came back clean also. I am not sitting here moping around or feeling sorry for myself. I am simply looking down the road two decades, objectively, and I don't see where it is going to work it for me. I do appreciate your concern and good advice, but I am disillusioned and disenchanted, not depressed. There is a vast difference.


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## bandit.45

jorgegene said:


> You wanted opinions; here's one:
> 
> nobody decides who gets into heaven, except the Lord Jesus.
> 
> If you are right with him, you'll be there.


I think you are correct.


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## bandit.45

giddiot said:


> Get the book 'Eternal Security' by Dr Charles Stanley, it's a good resource and explains it. By the way I lost 70% of my retirement in 2008 also and there is no time for it to recover. I am disillusioned with our country these days.


Oh I will. I love Stanley. He's about the closest thing to a prophet we have these days. If he says it, you can pretty much take it to the bank.


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## bandit.45

SimplyAmorous said:


> The part bolded in blue... ya know there are other people who FEEL like you do.. I dearly hope you can meet up with a woman who feels the same.. I think just finding a friend who feels similar.. where you can let your hair down with.. could do wonders for anyone.. not feeling so alone in the world.
> 
> We have an older male friend from our church.. I lost my religion some time ago -so not that I really understand what it is some feel on suicide.. but how you Feel here is how he has talked to us , opening up...his health is failing, diabetes getting worse, he sucks with women, he feels he has nothing to live for.. he does go to church...his sister is a mess, she's on & off drugs... tried to overdose a # of times.. he's been the one stable individual in her life... I feel this has given him some sense of purpose even... to be there for her...
> 
> We haven't caught up with him for some time.. since we are no longer going to church.. but still I've seen others in his life that VALUE him.. that care for him. he has downplayed it.. our kids loved him.. it would hurt so many if he did this.. just as it would hurt others if you did this..
> 
> Who do you have in your life Bandit.45 - you sound like a GOOD MAN to me.. with much to offer.. just down on yourself, a more pessimistic outlook -it happens, I understand.... I must admit.. I would hate it if my health was failing.. I also would not want to be in a nursing home..
> 
> I am in "Direct care".. it's not pretty.. sometimes I hate my Job...
> 
> I kinda like Jack Kevorkian - saying this to Christians - you can only imagine the looks I get , that's like saying you worship Satan or something...I have been told they will pray for me..
> 
> I was visiting Suicide forums a year ago... worrying about our son (devastating 1st love break up), I was on my knees again....I even bought a book on Suicide....so much more common in men, because they don't reach out.. they want to take it all "like a man".. but they hurt too... Everyone needs someone sometimes..
> 
> I am hoping you find some measure of peace here... or someone new to enter your life.. that will bring a smile to your face, that you'll want to share some of the burdens with each other... You're just not alone.. even if you don't see it right now.


Thank you for this. I'm going to mull over what you have said. Thank you.


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## Hopeful Cynic

bandit.45 said:


> I like this. But my fear is I won't be healthy enough to work much past 75. That would be my ceiling of usefulness. I'm almost tempted to forgo trying to save up any more retirement and just use that money to travel and enjoy the last two decades of my life and then leave this world with dignity.


I am not a theologian to tell you about heaven. But I can't imagine that God is a rules lawyer who would ban a good-hearted person on a technicality.

So you're talking twenty years away? I guess it's a comforting plan for the future, one that's better than dreading worsening health in a bad nursing home.

A lot can happen in twenty years, though, to the point where it's not worth worrying about. Put half your money towards retirement and half towards more immediate things, and cover both.

But don't see only the negative in the world around you. Stay open to the positive and it won't be so drowned out. Maybe that takes medication, maybe it takes meditation.

And for every good man who thinks romance and trustworthiness is dead, there's a good woman thinking the exact same thing. Find new activities, make new friends, be open to possibilities.


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## bandit.45

Red Sonja thanks for your input. I'm glad there are some who feel similar to myself.


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## SunCMars

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


Oh sh!t. Do not go down this selfish road.

Here is what I know.....you are born and you die. Death is a given. You are going to die. The when and the where should not be at your hands. Why bother? God will deliver the shot between the eyes. HE will not overlook you.

Here is THE THING. You will be here, just once, in your present configuration and mindset. 

You know what the past has brought you. You do not know the future. Some of your past sucks. some of it does not. Who gives a crap about money?

On a good clear night....go out onto a large expanse or prairie. Lay on a mat and look at the Stars. See how small you are? And yet, you can think and ponder and bitc# about life. What is more Great then that.

I am much older than you. I am having serious, serious health issues myself....this year. I WILL recover. Not to a healthy 20 year old buck. Nor a Shmuck. 

Given the choice, I would rather have life, then money or a hard d!ck. Let GOD do HIS job. He will cut you down in your tracks. Let the old GUY have HIS DUE.

Keep in mind.....modern medicine advances faster every year. Last years hopeless are next years miracles.

I recommend going to VA's burn centers or Shriners Hospital. See what those folks endure. It will give you perspective.

We are here for you...we are hear...ing YOU.


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## arbitrator

* @GTdad is correct! Those are the only avenues to eternal damnation for for a born again Christian! 

Having said that, it is a sin of magnanimous proportions that the Heavenly Father and the person committing the suicide will spend a lot of time together over!

As a fellow member of the Christian community(United Methodist), I do not want to see anyone try to achieve those ends, because our Heavenly Fathers loves all of His individual creations beyond sheer compassion.

If you ever have these feelings again, get with relatives or close friends to attempt to counter them!

Always remember, Bandito, God loves you, and so do I!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars

For me?

I will die...but whoever/whatever kills me will do so with effort....one limb at a time.

Unless my brain dies first....then I am.....AM NOT.

Lust for Life.....


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## As'laDain

My brother has a plan he hashed out a decade ago: when he senses that he is reaching the end of his ability to be productive, the end of his usefulness, he will go hunt a bear with a spear. If he lives, he will go back and brag about it and then attempt it with a knife. 

If he succeeds again, he will decide that is not over.

Bandit, your attitude towards life throws away all of the things that you could still do, even when old and alone. All of the life you could still enjoy would, in your view of your own old age, be missed. It would not be missed because of your impending death, it would be missed because you simply ignored it. All of the beautiful things that are going on around you are being missed because of the negative things you pay attention to.

Why would you be worried about the afterlife in a situation where you are not enjoying THIS life? You want to know what lasts forever? As far as you know, it's everything you experience. 

Do you know anything about heaven or hell? Has anyone been there? Even if they had, is there any way for you to really know that they are not lying, delusional, or crazy?

You want to know what he'll on earth is? Think about this... what if you went through life missing all of its beauty and splendor because of something as stupid as not knowing they are there? What if you reach the end of your life and suddenly realized that you wasted a lifetime staring at the shadows on the wall instead of turning around and seeing the way out of the cave? 

What if you never turned around at all? What if you lived your whole life thinking that the world was nothing but shadows? Wouldn't that be a terrible life? Would there be any salvation for you? How would you be able to fathom the beautiful love of all that life has to offer if you die without ever seeing any of it? 

Think about something... what causes people to sin? What causes people to hurt each other? If they felt the emotions that their actions elicit in others, do you think they would be able to bring themselves to do it? If a cheating spouse knew the very feelings of pain and betrayal they would cause, if they felt it as they caused them, would they do it? Who wants that kind of pain?

The truth is, we cannot feel what others feel. We feel what WE feel. And ONLY what we feel. For each and every one of us, the world only exists for us. Take us out of the world and we have no grief from it. We have no joy from it. Take us out of the world and the world no longer exists for us. 

Everyone wants to live for something greater than themselves, but they fail to realize that NOTHING is bigger than the self. The self is the ONLY thing that can determine whether someone lives a joyful life or a tormented life. I can take the pain of root canals without anesthetic with a **** eating grin because the self can choose to love it anyway. Mind over matter. If I dont mind, it don't matter.

So, bandit, are you sure you would want to die while you can still experience so much of what life has to offer? If you want to die happy, then I would think that you would choose not to die when the time came. After all, you are happy, there is more to enjoy. If you want to die miserable, then I feel pity for you. But, knowing how quickly and easily your mood can change, you would die knowing that you do not wish to experience your next moment of joy. 

As for me, I'll be laughing my way to death, adult diapers and all. Crass, vulgar, and hilarious jokes spewing forth from my mouth. This is life. And I am going to love every god damned second of it. Especially when it hurts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tripod

Your post made me cry. Then the USC-Stanford game came on. Have to keep our priorities straight. Check back in 3 hours. Don't do anything rash.


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## tech-novelist

I'm very sorry to hear you have such a bleak outlook on the future.

I'm a lot older than you, well past your 60-year-old cutoff, and I look forward to the rest of my life.

I don't have the financial troubles you do, and am in very good health for my age.

But I can say that I might very well have such an outlook if something happened to take away my darling wife.

I don't expect that to happen any time soon, but you never know.

As I posted here some time ago, if that did happen I would be devastated... but I would have my TAM friends to console me, and I would probably be able to go on.

You are one of the ones I thought about when I wrote that post. Please don't sell yourself short.

And get your free testosterone checked! A healthy man of any age should notice when a beautiful woman goes by!


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## becareful2

I'm sorry you feel this way, bandit. I don't know if anything I say will help but here goes.

You have 12 to 15 years of good life left, so make good use of that time and find ways to make money. Restructure your finances to save while brainstorming of other ways to make money. I read an article on Yahoo some time ago about a man giving advice on mortgages. Instead of paying off his mortgage for that peace of mind, he took the full amount and put it in an interest bearing market account, while still paying off his mortgage month to month. Over the years, he made so much money from that interest alone, and the total was over twice what his original mortgage was. What I'm saying is there are many ways to make money. If you have the will, you'll come across knowledge that have been shared by others that will benefit you.


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## EunuchMonk

Well, if you mean to go through with it, bandit, I could always get my hands on a pistol (paid for by you) and clock you out.........

Joking, people, relax. Relax, I was only joking. Humour is good in these situations. C'mon, relax.

Funny thing is I was thinking about this exact question recently. Things were bad in my life, man, all bad. Unemployed, living with a crazed parent when I should be on my own, found out when you don't have money a lot of your friends aren't enthusiastic about your visits. Go figure. Plus, seeing your peers advance in life while you are dead in the water....it burns man. I was praying telling God I didn't know what to do and I wanted to call it in.

Well, the prayer worked. Someone offered me a job beginning next month. The salary quoted to me is the most I'm ever going to be paid in a job yet. I'm not even fully qualified for the job so it is above my paid grade. With that money I can finally go out on my own. Oh, the possibilities.

My point is don't throw in the towel until you have taken God in a choke-hold like Jacob did (Gen. 32:24-30). Test him first. Immerse yourself in the spiritual life: bible-studies, private prayer, outreach, church, the whole package. I am certain something will happen for you. As a matter of fact, I defy you to do this and not be blessed. I defy you to come back here and tell me it didn't work. I will eat this lamp on the table next to this raggedy laptop.

And to answer your question, no, I don't think suicide is unforgivable. Not advisable, that's for sure, but not unforgivable. The unpardonable sin the other poster spoke of, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is basically unbelief. I know a theologian will give a more academic answer but that is essentially what it is. One has to believe to have their sins pardoned. If you do not believe then your sins can not be pardoned, making unbelief itself unpardonable.

Maybe you could go to a third world country and be a hermit. lol, that should be good for a laugh if nothing else. Don't exhaust every crazy adventure before you call it a day. I mean, you are going to die anyway so what fear is holding you back.


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## Anon Pink

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.


Let's pretend that you believed you might be able to build a very modest nest egg, would a modest nest egg be enough for you to feel hopeful about being able to retire at some point?

What would you do with your time once retired? 



> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.


How realistic is this? Knees can be replaced, so can hips, and disks can be moderately repaired. Perhaps there is some way to strategize with an orthopedic specialist so that should surgery be a good option with a better than good outcome, there might be ways to be able to afford all of this.




> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.


Nothing as in no desire or nothing as in no physiological response down stream? Viagara etc hasn't worked for you?




> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.


Depression can be the cause for a bleak outlook, or a bleak outlook may pave the way for depression. One thing is certain, a good therapist can help you cope and not feel so overwhelmed and bleak.





> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.


Why is this? You obviously have a great sense of humor why are you not sharing this with others?

Is there a cause you care about? Have you thought about volunteering? 



> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.


They don't have rest homes anymore. 

-There are active adult communities, generally 55 and up. These are just communities with amenities geared toward active retirees. 
-There are retirement communities, like condo living, in which social activities are too numerous to list, from arts to pinball and pool tables. These are not assisted living and they are not nursing homes. The average age for new move in is mid 70's.

You can make a medical directive that states you wish all medical intervention be with held should the following conditions be met...depends and jello means no more live sustaining... 





> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.



My mother's mother, who died in the 1930's believed everyone went to heaven because we lived hell on earth.

I'm not a believer so I'll leave the doctrinal discussion to others. But I do believe that often times that which causes us to contemplate suicide is actually transient. It's not a feeling that is permanently part of our general outlook.

Loss of hope, loss of control, loss of significant others or relationships and even loss of financial security can and do cause significant impairment in our mood. 

I have a hard time believing a psychologist listened to you clinically discuss your suicide thoughts and didn't ever you for more therapy. If this is true, you need a new psychologist! When the human mind, hard wired to survive, begins to contemplate suicide there is something VeRY wrong going on!

Please see a different therapist and please be completely open and honest about everything you've written here?


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## snerg

Sbrown said:


> Find a low t center. I'm betting it'll change your life. Even if your regular dr says your levels are "normal" for a guy your age. Find a specialist and I'd wager you'll be feeling great in a few short months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I was going to say this.

Having you TLvls drop radically can make the male brain go all wonky. Definitely contemplation of oblivion will be there if you levels have dropped a lot or have radically dropped quickly. 

Lot of times your doctor simply won't understand and won't give you the test. 

Say things like - "I'm getting tired using the remote.", "I don't have any desire for sex.", "I have no desire to look at porn." These Phrases tend to get you doctor's attention

You need to get that test done (if doctor won't have them refer you to a urologist/endocrinologist)


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## Curse of Millhaven

This will be a very long reply; I apologize in advance. I have a lot to say on this subject and care about you as a person so it made me sad to read this, but I understand it. I recognize your thought process because I engage in it, near daily; different reasons but same conclusion. 

I don’t have active plans (doesn’t sound like you do either), but it’s always humming along quietly in the back of my mind… waiting patiently.

When I’m at my lowest, I welcome the whispering seduction of it and let it wrap me in its duplicitous warm embrace, other times I hate it and fight, I tell the cloying voice to shut the fvck up and leave me alone. Sometimes it does, but it never really leaves. It just waits. Its got time and it knows it.

I have double depression which is dysthymia compounded by major depressive episodes (my genes doubled down and lost!) and in a lot of ways suicide is a foregone conclusion. So I recognize this and try to be pragmatic about it. 

I’ve developed coping strategies from a life spent struggling with this. I try to be practical and realistic in recognizing when my misery is clouding my thoughts and trying to deceive me into believing a false path is the only way out. It’s very persuasive and persistent but this sick chimera can be fought back. And I’m a fighter. I can never defeat it, but I consider myself victorious to simply survive each battle and no longer focus on the impossibility of ever winning the war.

You have said you’ve had a full psychological testing so I am not going to second-guess “experts” because I am not one (not even on the internet!), but with the hopelessness you describe I have to wonder if you might have dysthymia, which is harder to diagnose and treat. It’s a “low-grade” persistent depressive disorder and since a lot of people who have it have had it most of their lives, they think it is “normal” to feel this way and may under-report symptoms of depression. They’ve gotten so used to forcing themselves to function through it that they don’t really notice the impairment and just live with it.

Psychologists and psychiatrists tend to focus on the symptoms of major depression and stick to their clinical diagnostic checklists and if you don’t tick off so many items then you’re “okay”, when in reality you may be very far from it. 

I encourage you to be re-evaluated and be forthright about your persistent feelings of hopelessness and despair over humanity and the bleakness of your future. Clinicians are not infallible and it’s like finding a needle in a haystack trying to locate an effective, knowledgeable, and compassionate one, but it’s worth getting second, third, fourth opinions and being vocal and actively involved in your diagnosis and treatment. Forewarned is forearmed, so do your research and be prepared. 

For the inflammation and pain, have you tried MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) and turmeric? If you combine them with vitamin C and omega-3 supplements, you may get some reduction in symptoms and hopefully a little relief. The turmeric and omegas may help with the feelings of depression too; they never did anything for me but it doesn’t hurt to try.

Now on to the deeper, spiritual implications of suicide. 

As a believer and follower of Christ (on my own, outside of organized religion), I have had to think about this subject a lot, not for myself, but because I had to deal with the devastating loss of a loved one from suicide and had to try to piece myself back together in the aftermath of that total destruction. I almost didn’t make it.

My first love committed suicide after cheating, breaking my heart, and we failed at reconciliation. This was my first and only other relationship; my wild and wonderful ex-marine, alcoholic, atheist, depressed beautiful mess just couldn’t see any other way out. No note, no goodbye, no explanation. Nothing. Except the gaping wound where my heart had been and the raw savage sorrow that ripped me apart and rebuilt me back as something I didn’t recognize. I was like a ghost haunting my own life for a very long time. 

It was many years before I recovered and truthfully I don’t think I healed correctly. Like a badly broken bone that isn’t reset properly and mends crooked with constant residual pain, I’ve limped through the years forever altered. The me I would have been died that day too and is buried with my dead lover. 

The Catholic religion I grew up in (and shed as quickly as I could) views suicides as lost souls who do not enter the kingdom of heaven. They are condemned and beyond forgiveness. I agonized over this for a long time but ultimately decided I had already lost my religion, so why not trust and believe in my God? And my God is one of mercy and His divine capacity for love, compassion, and forgiveness is beyond anything our human minds can comprehend. 

So I sought solace and refuge in my Lord, and found comfort in the word:

“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 8:38-39

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” - John 10:27-28 

So in my lone, individual Christian way of thinking, this means that if you are a believer, then nothing can separate you from the love of God. Not even yourself.

Now this shouldn’t be taken as an endorsement of suicide. I have lived through the devastation it causes and I would never want that for anyone. There are people in your life that would be irreparably impacted and damaged from the loss of you. We all matter, we all count; there are tendrils of meaning, love, and community that we weave and connect with those around us until it forms this beautiful, fvcked up crazy quilt we call life. 

Do not discount your significance and contributions to the unique little patch that it is yours in the overall design. I know with unwavering certainty that there are others who are counting on the strength of your stitches to hold them together. 

Focus on the good you are doing in your AA group; as others have suggested, consider volunteering for causes you believe in or joining a church or spiritual group that is in alignment with your beliefs, this will help build the bonds of humanity that we all need, whether we admit it or not.

And lastly, it may seem silly and insignificant, but for what it’s worth, even if very little, I think the world is better with you in it. 

Sorry again for the length of this post.

I’m off to post music and memes now. Sometimes… it’s the little pleasures in life that can see us through. 

Godspeed and take care!


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## tech-novelist

Anon Pink said:


> Let's pretend that you believed you might be able to build a very modest nest egg, would a modest nest egg be enough for you to feel hopeful about being able to retire at some point?
> 
> What would you do with your time once retired?





EunuchMonk said:


> Maybe you could go to a third world country and be a hermit. lol, that should be good for a laugh if nothing else. Don't exhaust every crazy adventure before you call it a day. I mean, you are going to die anyway so what fear is holding you back.


Combining these two thoughts, you can live very well on a very modest amount of money in a lot of countries other than the US.

That's what I would do if my retirement plans went terribly astray.


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## becareful2

As to your eternal destination according to Christian theology, I believe there are two destinations. There are those who will spend eternity away from God, and there are those who will spend eternity with Him. According to many verses like John 3:16 and the crowns given to the saints in the book of Revelation, I believe the people who make it to heaven are split into two groups: those who receive the robe of righteousness because they led a righteous life, walked really close to God, and overcame the sins and temptations of the world. With that robe of righteousness and that crown, they get to enter the holy city where God the father sits on His throne. They will get to see Him face to face because they are worthy. The other group who makes it to heaven have to live outside the holy city, but inside the pearly gates. These are the people who believed in God but did not or could not overcome the sins of the flesh and the temptations of this world, but God through His mercy allows them inside the pearly gates anyway. I believe many Christians fall into that group. For many are called but few are chosen. The wedding invitations were handed out long ago, but like the parable said, only a very small number of invited guests wanted to attend. *parable*

You do matter, bandit. Who knows, maybe if you stick around long enough, you may affect someone's life in a meaningful way that will change their life forever, and that person could affect other people's lives in untold ways.


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## bandit.45

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate the wisdom and experience and I'm lucky to have a TAM family to turn to. Lots to digest here. I'm going to meditate on all of this and come back tomorrow with responses. 

Don't worry folks, I am not thinking of offing myself now or anytime in the near future. Just ruminating about the distant future and what options I have.


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## As'laDain

Jesus was the proof that we are already saved. The second we acknowledge it, that we are ok, and that life is well, despite its mess, we are saved. 

Everyone that professes to be Christian calls him the savior. But I call him something more... he is the proof that we are already saved. He is the proof that it is ok for us to feel all that we feel and still love ourselves.

Jesus did not think himself greater than anyone else. He knew that he was given the golden ticket. He knew that he was aware when others werent. He could love others, even despite what they did to him, because they did not really know what they were doing. 

Ever wonder why the bible says that faith without works is dead? I wondered about that a lot. But think about it... can you call yourself good of you don't do good? Can you really believe that you are good without doing good? 

I cannot. In order to believe that I am good, I must do good. I must love those around me. I must love myself so that I can actually live others as I love myself. 

If I love myself, I must forgive myself any feeling that pops up out of my own ignorance. And if I am willing to forgive myself for what I feel, I must forgive others. 

Bandit, is any of this making sense to you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Sonja

I would comment on something @As’laDain; wrote, yes it is true that we only “feel what WE feel”.

However there are some in this world who feel *too much*. We can sense what others feel and, sometimes even absorb their feelings if we are close enough to them or to their experience.  This is a condition; a state of being. Is it learned or innate? I don’t know, but I do know that it is something that must be actively managed lest you become overwhelmed by it. And, sometimes the management effort can be exhausting.


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## SunCMars

My favorite poem, except the Master of my Fate line.

You steer your ship, a Three Master Sailing Ship, subject to the Winds, the Sea and the Sirens who lure you off course.

Invictess ----<+>----

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul. 

-William Ernest Henley


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## farsidejunky

Bandit...brother...

Nobody really knows the answer to the question you are asking. 

You are clearly one of those people that Sonja is alluding to, who feels everything and it is amplified. I know this type, because I am the same way. So is my wife. There are times where all we want to do is get to our home and away from the madness that this world is, and the crazy people which fill it. This world is filled with pain. People hurt. Often they hurt due to poor decisions. Other times it is due to placing trust in the wrong person. Yet, there is so much joy in life as well. I find that as I meet the crazies (of which I am likely a member, just my own brand), the more fascinating and good people I meet. When I meet them, I nurture those relationships. When you strip away all that is fake and plastic in this world, relationships with others are really all you have left.

As a fellow alcoholic, I also think you need to keep one important factor in perspective. You may not feel this at all, so feel free to tell me to pound sand. There are times where I sit, and look around, and think to myself that my highs are gone. It is not even the alcohol that I miss, but rather the anticipation. Anticipation of a night out, with a few (dozen) drinks, the fun to be had, the adventures to be experienced. With that anticipation gone, I sometimes look around and feel...unfulfilled. Without someone in your life, I would think that would be amplified. 

Brother, it may be time to start looking for someone to help fill out your life. I know you have repeatedly said that you are done, but I would tell you that it is a blessing (and sometimes a curse  ) to have a sensitive as a sensitive's partner. 

Even if you are not, perhaps you are not finding what your next calling may be. I would pray for it. Pray that God's will would be done in your life. Pray to be open to being led. Fair warning: it is not always the direction we think we want to go, but it is always the direction we should go.

There is joy to be had in life. Make sure you are open to experiencing it.


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## Emerging Buddhist

“If one knows how to treasure oneself, one should protect oneself well.”
-The Buddha (Dhammapada)

We work hard... no, struggle... to keep desires in check. 

To me, suicide is an desire of choice where one can choose the outcome no other can choose for them.

Desires can be good and complimenting (treat others well, strengthen oneself with mindful thoughts and healthy living, value morals as a contribution) or they can be poor and detrimental (treat others poorly, weaken oneself with unhealthy thoughts or food and drink, choose values that hurt self and others).

A taking of one's own life is between you and the next path... no creator as God, whom many have faith in, would have so little love to damn a spirit that chooses such a path. If I was to end my life this minute, it would not be the act that would create my hardship but the life I led up to it.

There will come a time that we may see our existence as something that will come to a point where our only purpose will be to consume a resource that could be better used for others, and this is not an outlook that helps one's spiritual congruence.

Bandit, many of the things in your opening post address fears of future tense, what you expect and what you accept are going to be something to grow toward as you look to what is, and what will be. You have such incredible strength, I've read it in your writings and opinions, please don't forget how to apply such wisdom to self.

As for physical intimacy, friendship isn't measured at the crotch last I was aware and if more love was sprouted with the heart and mind first, relationships would last a whole lot longer. Beauty is measure at the soul... I am confident there is value undiscovered that would partner with a partner beyond the discontentedness of your measure.

When the time comes, I am sure I will be one that will ask for "just a little more morphine" to take me to the next path before my senses leave me, until then, an unlived life is my greater concern.

May you live yours letting what you do today meet the only approval you need, yours... and work with it, not against it.


ps. Mormons believe that taking one's life is a situation only God can understand and judge.


----------



## Red Sonja

farsidejunky said:


> I find that as I meet the crazies (of which I am likely a member, just my own brand), the more fascinating and good people I meet.


This is so true. A small story if you’ll indulge me.

I live in an “upscale” urban area right on the beach. I don’t know what it is about the beach, maybe it’s the openness or the weather (?) but my area attracts a lot of “crazies”. You know the types; the ones that most people would prefer did not exist or would just “go away”.

There has been an older woman here in the area for a few months. She is dirty, sleeps on the sidewalks and spends much of her time shuffling around talking to herself, sometimes screaming the words. I hear my neighbors complain about “that woman” and why won’t someone “do something about her”.

I am often out walking with my dogs in the area. One day she looked at my dog Sherman as I passed and I heard her say “English Bulldog”. I said “Yes, he is, would you like to pet him?” Sherman is a big love bug who thinks no human in his world should pass without petting him, :awink:. I let Sherman approach her and he sat looking up at her as she petted him very gently. In that moment her face lit up, I could see that she has beautiful and luminous blue eyes. She began to tell me about her dogs and the fact that she had always loved the bully-breeds. Since that day, she smiles and says hello when we meet on my walks, she gives my dogs affection and we speak a bit. This woman has never asked me for anything, she just wants to give my dogs a scratch and have a small chat.

She adds to my day and my dogs now love her. Yet people call her crazy and want her gone. :slap:


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## imtamnew

Call a suicide helpline in Pakistan. They will find some use for you.

That was a joke to make you laugh and anyone taking offense can also laugh.

But here is my serious part.
Suicide is a good option but there are many better ways to live. Join some service organisation. Go to Africa or come to India. Work with the poor. Just work doing anything. 
There is a saying in my land that the god lives in the smiles of the poor. Maybe just maybe a life of service like that will save you as well.


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## See_Listen_Love

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


First I think suicide does not mean you go to hell per definition. I consider it as a sin, big or small depending on the situation. From a Christian viewpoint, life is not to be expected without problems, it is about dealing with our problems. The way we do that should be that of Jesus, our example.

Then, you have a number of problems, which many people have nowadays. Many people. It is hard to stay optimistic for everybody. So you are not alone, there must be groups in forums working on any of your problems. Find groups for each of your issues is what I would advise. I myself have had a lot of support from youtube vids that deal with certain area's. I like Jim Rohn very much on the issue of thinking and changing your thinking. 

In my experience people who have lost their outlook on the future, do not grab the lifeline you hand them, because they have reasons to believe it will not help them. I include myself also in that way of thinking. I am not better than you or them. I want to say, it is normal behavior to think it will not help. But rationally you should accept the notion that certain things WILL help you.


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## See_Listen_Love

bandit.45 said:


> Again I'm not depressed. I just went through a battery of psychological exams six months ago and I'm not depressed or "suicidal" in the strict meaning of the term. My blood work came back clean also. I am not sitting here moping around or feeling sorry for myself. I am simply looking down the road two decades, objectively, and I don't see where it is going to work it for me. I do appreciate your concern and good advice, but I am disillusioned and disenchanted, not depressed. There is a vast difference.


I think you are right, there is a tendency though to repair feelings like you have with medication, sedating and calming people through life. You choose to see and feel your reality, and that is a sign of good mental health.


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## Fozzy

A lot of good points here.

1. Depression is hard to see in yourself. It took me years to realize I was depressed. When you go so long in life viewing things a certain way, it never occurs to you that your way of viewing things is f'd up. Sometimes you can only see how messed up it is after you start getting better. It's like looking at yourself for the first time, instead of a funhouse mirror.

2. As AP said, if you discussed your plans with a psychologist and he gave you a thumbs up, then your psychologist sucks ass.

3. Asla mentioned Faith without works is dead. Helping others fills a void in your life like nothing else can do. Even an old penniless man can affect people's lives in a positive way. And that gets paid back. Loneliness, uselessness, all of that goes away when you see the difference you can make in someone else's life.


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## See_Listen_Love

EunuchMonk said:


> Well, if you mean to go through with it, bandit, I could always get my hands on a pistol (paid for by you) and clock you out.........
> 
> Joking, people, relax. Relax, I was only joking. Humour is good in these situations. C'mon, relax.
> 
> Funny thing is I was thinking about this exact question recently. Things were bad in my life, man, all bad. Unemployed, living with a crazed parent when I should be on my own, found out when you don't have money a lot of your friends aren't enthusiastic about your visits. Go figure. Plus, seeing your peers advance in life while you are dead in the water....it burns man. I was praying telling God I didn't know what to do and I wanted to call it in.
> 
> Well, the prayer worked. Someone offered me a job beginning next month. The salary quoted to me is the most I'm ever going to be paid in a job yet. I'm not even fully qualified for the job so it is above my paid grade. With that money I can finally go out on my own. Oh, the possibilities.
> 
> My point is don't throw in the towel until you have taken God in a choke-hold like Jacob did (Gen. 32:24-30). Test him first. Immerse yourself in the spiritual life: bible-studies, private prayer, outreach, church, the whole package. I am certain something will happen for you. As a matter of fact, I defy you to do this and not be blessed. I defy you to come back here and tell me it didn't work. I will eat this lamp on the table next to this raggedy laptop.
> 
> And to answer your question, no, I don't think suicide is unforgivable. Not advisable, that's for sure, but not unforgivable. The unpardonable sin the other poster spoke of, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is basically unbelief. I know a theologian will give a more academic answer but that is essentially what it is. One has to believe to have their sins pardoned. If you do not believe then your sins can not be pardoned, making unbelief itself unpardonable.
> 
> Maybe you could go to a third world country and be a hermit. lol, that should be good for a laugh if nothing else. Don't exhaust every crazy adventure before you call it a day. I mean, you are going to die anyway so what fear is holding you back.



Great post! It seems to have worked out good for you. Makes me smile. We have to take this challenge if we are serious about our believe system.

Philippians 4:4 says be happy and joyful in the Lord, always. That is not a promise, it is an assignment, a command.

I have been through troubles and hardship in my life that go a lot deeper than Bandit talks about, so I feel I can mention such a text. On the surface it seems a stupid text, but I feel it contains a lot of wisdom. 

*Because whatever your situation is, behaving in good spirit, joking, optimistic, will always lead to better outcome than when acting depressed. *


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## arbitrator

*God manifests himself in everything and in all of his creations, whether or not that person has a firm belief and acknowledgement in Him!

One can see Him, whether they are in a great metropolis, or in the countries rural backdrop, where His beauty can be examined and felt to its fullest extent!

God can be found and experienced within the beauty of a either a grandiose or even a meager church sanctuary, from the stirring music from a great pipe organ or an off tune soloist, or in the privacy of your own space as you are in contrite prayer and communication with him. That is when he truly speaks to you! And although He loves us beyond measure, God speaks to us on His terms, and certainly not ours! He is in charge, and not us!

Look at the magnanimous beauty of this sphere and you have to ask yourself, who but a loving God, could have ever conceived such a concept! God feels such a reciprocal love for all of His creations, that He offered us a plan of salvation through Jesus Christ His son!

To that end, when heavenly salvation is offered and accepted, no one can pluck the recipient from the Father's hand!

God wants us all to positively and lovingly seek Him, directly and indirectly, through other believers and non-believers alike, wherever it is that He may be, and no matter with regard to what our earthly vocation, avocation or rank might possibly be! 

Just as He first sought us with His infinite, unceasing, and undying love for us!

As earthly believers, we are truly here in the spirit and magnitude of His service!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza

While I empathise with your thought process, I think you are asking the wrong question. I'd point you to James 4:13-17. Or if you want it straight from the horse's mouth, Matthew 6:34 (maybe start reading at 25). 

You don't know the future.


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## bandit.45

Red Sonja said:


> I am often out walking with my dogs in the area. One day she looked at my dog Sherman as I passed and I heard her say “English Bulldog”. I said “Yes, he is, would you like to pet him?” Sherman is a big love bug who thinks no human in his world should pass without petting him, :awink:. I let Sherman approach her and he sat looking up at her as she petted him very gently. In that moment her face lit up, I could see that she has beautiful and luminous blue eyes. She began to tell me about her dogs and the fact that she had always loved the bully-breeds. Since that day, she smiles and says hello when we meet on my walks, she gives my dogs affection and we speak a bit. This woman has never asked me for anything, she just wants to give my dogs a scratch and have a small chat.
> 
> She adds to my day and my dogs now love her. Yet people call her crazy and want her gone. :slap:


Makes you wonder about her life story doesn't it? 

When I was a kid, my dad would sometimes help a friend of his work on a gas furnace that heated an old two story apartment building in the main town I grew up near. While dad and his friend were down in the basement I would stay upstairs with my Matchbox cars and kill time. At the end of the big central corridor was an old worn chair and this old man would come out and watch me play. He was probably in his eighties and he spoke very little English. He was very kindly and would talk to me in broken English and would just sit there and watch me and laugh at my antics. Sometimes he would produce a Hershey bar or a piece of gum for me. He wasn't a perv or a pedophile....just an honestly nice old man who was obviously on a thin pension and alone. 

He died a few years later and I found out my dad had worked with him in the past. My dad knew his story. It was remarkable. The man was Serbian, had fought in the Serbian civil war when he was thirteen, then fought in WWI against the Germans when he was eighteen, then immigrated to the US to work in the copper mines near where we lived, and then signed up again for WWII. He was in his mid thirties when he was sent back to Europe where he served this time in the army infantry. Three wars in a lifetime. He was decorated umpteen times. 

This old gentleman spoke five different languages or something, and my dad remembered how he would scold a work crew in German with a perfect German accent when they weren't cutting the mustard. . He only married once, back in Serbia, but his young wife died soon after WWI. He spent the rest of his life alone but very happy and well-liked by everyone who knew him. When he died, about a hundred people from around town showed up for his funeral. They had a VFW honor guard there and the mayor gave his eulogy. It was very touching. Somehow this old man had affected a lot of people's lives in a positive way just by being kind and honest. 

But you never think, when you look at a homeless person, what their story is. We just tell ourselves that they must not have one.


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## bandit.45

arbitrator said:


> *God manifests himself in everything and in all of his creations, whether or not that person has a firm belief and acknowledgement in Him!
> 
> One can see Him, whether they are in a great metropolis, or in the countries rural backdrop, where His beauty can be examined and felt to its fullest extent!
> 
> God can be found and experienced within the beauty of a either a grandiose or even a meager church sanctuary, from the stirring music from a great pipe organ or an off tune soloist, or in the privacy of your own space as you are in contrite prayer and communication with him. That is when he truly speaks to you! And although He loves us beyond measure, God speaks to us on His terms, and certainly not ours! He is in charge, and not us!
> 
> Look at the magnanimous beauty of this sphere and you have to ask yourself, who but a loving God, could have ever conceived such a concept! God feels such a reciprocal love for all of His creations, that He offered us a plan of salvation through Jesus Christ His son!
> 
> To that end, when heavenly salvation is offered and accepted, no one can pluck the recipient from the Father's hand!
> 
> God wants us all to positively and lovingly seek Him, directly and indirectly, through other believers and non-believers alike, wherever it is that He may be, and no matter with regard to what our earthly vocation, avocation or rank might possibly be!
> 
> Just as He first sought us with His infinite, unceasing, and undying love for us!
> 
> As earthly believers, we are truly here in the spirit and magnitude of His service!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smile2:



Methodists......


A Baptist could never be that eloquent.


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## bandit.45

Thank you all for participating in this thread. I appreciate the loving vibes you are all sending my way. And I spent a lot of time last night after my AA group mulling over these posts. They were all very well thumbed...I assure you. 

Since the second young man in my AA group committed suicide a few weeks back, my own sense of my mortality has been leaning over me like a shadow. I am only 48, yet for the past couple of years I have felt like I'm 65. 

Firtsly, I am not pointing a handgun at my head. My guns are safely locked away in a safe in a climate controlled storage unit a few blocks down the street. I am not suicidal. I am however feeling a sense of impending entropy. And this is what scares me. I just moved to Houston, a beautiful city with highly educated people, a great Texan culture, fantastic restaurants, racial diversity....everything you could want in a hip, cool place to live. And yet. And yet....I have no desire whatsoever to open myself up to anyone here. I am so loathe to make friends, because making friends requires personal investment and energy. I have no energy. I'm a construction project manager and I work 60-70 hours a week in a high pressure environment, so when I get home at night I am toast. Dead. 

And it isn't just physical tiredness. I am angry. I cannot watch the news anymore without becoming infuriated, so I just don't. I don't talk politics anymore because what good does it do? I am angry at the decadence that has poisoned our world, but most specifically I am enraged at the American people who have slid so far down the cosmic bunny hole that I don't know how we will ever climb out of this mess we have made here. 

I went to NASA a few months back. I'm a huge fan of the space program. The Apollo 11 astronauts were and are my heroes. I toured the facility in awe, saw the mighty Saturn V rocket, saw the moon rocks and the spacesuits. It's a spectacular exhibit. Then I took the tram out to mission control and sat in the bleachers above the old mission control room. It was a sacred place. It was a wonderful day. 

But on my drive home I pondered how no one in our Society gives a sh!t about that kind of stuff anymore. Americans no longer dream. We work, we consume, we brag, we lie, we stab each other in the back and we look out for ourselves and ourselves only. 

Neighbors don't talk to each other, make friends. I have lived in my rental house for six months and the only time a neighbor talked to me was to come tell me to move my car which I had to park far the down the street due to construction. I have introduced myself to neighbors but no one wants to share or engage or invite you in for coffee. It's so impersonal. And this is Texas...the friendliest state with the friendliest people in the nation....


RANT RANT RANT!!!


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## Herschel

I got into this late, but I think you are good if you angle it as martyrdom. Find a cause, fight for it and then have them kill you. Sweet in.


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## bandit.45

Herschel said:


> I got into this late, but I think you are good if you angle it as martyrdom. Find a cause, fight for it and then have them kill you. Sweet in.


Yeah but there is no movement or ideal that I would want to die for. I have to have something worth believing in before I would want to die for it.


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## rich84

bandit.45 said:


> Again I'm not depressed. I just went through a battery of psychological exams six months ago and I'm not depressed or "suicidal" in the strict meaning of the term. My blood work came back clean also. I am not sitting here moping around or feeling sorry for myself. I am simply looking down the road two decades, objectively, and I don't see where it is going to work it for me. I do appreciate your concern and good advice, but I am disillusioned and disenchanted, not depressed. There is a vast difference.




Ok. Fine. Let's assume that a good lab sheet and a passed psych eval equals healthy perfection. Put that aside. 

I think you're working on rationalizing a weaker path and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than trying to maximize your time. What are you passionate about? What mutually fulfilling relationships are you building? How are you helping others or investing in others? If you're working on your exit plan then you're taking energy away from improving your current situation and enjoying life in the moment. Are you really that jaded? Or are you being a little lazy? Fight brother. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> :smile2:
> 
> 
> 
> Methodists......
> 
> 
> A Baptist could never be that eloquent.


*Many thanks, Bandito! But there are several eloquent Baptists like Charles Stanley out there, just as there are a boatload of some ineloquent Methodists! And I should know ~ I deal with them every day!

Let's just say that your comment literally brought a tear to my eye and a smile to my face!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tripod

tripod said:


> Your post made me cry. Then the USC-Stanford game came on. Have to keep our priorities straight. Check back in 3 hours. Don't do anything rash.


Still around? So, the score is Standford 27 and USC 10. It's enough to make a good Trojan fall on his sword. But, then there's next year, and the anticipation of vanquishing the hated and unworthy Cardinal. 

Life's like that, actually. You get slammed around, beat up, and down in the dumps. Then some prospect of joy appears on the horizon. 

Your question took me back 58 years when I was taking confirmation class at Grace Lutheran Church, a very conservative church and part of the Missouri Synod. The youth pastor was leading our classes. He must have been fresh out of college with a shiny new diploma in Theology. Explained grace and that Jesus had died for our sins and that what was necessary to get to heaven was to believe and repent.

So, some smart ass kid (moi?) asked if since that's the case, couldn't a person just lead a life of revelry and sin, and then at the last minute repent? Why waste time being good when you could be bad and still stride past those pearly gates. For those of us who are just goal directed, wouldn't that work? The poor Rev was flummoxed. And, about the best he could do was "God wants you to be good." And, what if you're bad and you don't get a chance to repent? Why take a chance?

See, that's the thing. If you off yourself, you can't make up for the sin, because, well you'll be dead. Why take a chance?

I've got a few years on you--hell, most likely two decades--and the last 20 years have been the most pleasing, most productive and most adventuresome of my life.


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## arbitrator

*Whereas we have all committed sin and have come short of the glory of God is paramount! To gain His pardon, all that has to be done is to solely accept and embrace the plan of salvation on Gods terms! Without that, we are doomed to a spiritually unfulfilled life!

And while there have been numerous accounts of "deathbed confessions," please keep in mind that any such confession made in that regard will be fully weighed at the time of judgment by our Heavenly Father on its own merits; as God can truly see into the inner sanctum of our hearts and can tell if we, in any way, are consciously or unconsciously being flippant or insincere!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

Hormone levels dropping due to age. It's all normal. You have more time to think about these future problems because you are not as concerned about women. 

The world is pretty much how you are coming to know it. It's sad, but true. You just didn't give a damn before. 

Manson was disillusioned....just sayin'...

You could start your own sort of west boro Baptist church or whatever that is called. You can get some sheepskin off the internet and teach your brand of crazy to all others. You could create a heck of a compound and just have women and men there who don't think very much and aren't educated well. 

Jim Jones made his goal. :laugh: 

Okay, I'm a bit off course.  


Some of this is the times we live in. We are paid less because there are more workers available. They just keep splitting up the same amount of money for more and more employees. 

You'll have to start a second business of some sort and have it work in your favor. You can't do that with the job you have. I think you need a promotion to move into the arena of less time, higher pay, more folks to delegate work to and more vacation and better benefits like profit sharing, stock options and so forth. 

Hey, just some thoughts I had that I figured might have a chance of bringing a smile to your face. 


ps.: On a more serious note, be glad you aren't married to a woman who is cheating on you while you are going through this. Blaming you for not being interested in her because you can't physically perform. Your mind is a mess. I was there. You would follow whomever has a decent plan. I followed my wife. At least she had some goals. Then, she was in peri menopause and I was where you are. She found younger men with higher sex drives more interesting. She finally found a guy with a better retirement plan. 

Life sucks. It's a fact. Then you die. God never promised anyone life would be great. That's where most have it wrong. One thing I keep reminding myself are his words, "Pick up your cross daily...and follow me." That doesn't sound like he made any promises of abundance, unless it was an abundance of his love and mercy for us. And yes, he knows exactly how our lives will go. He is timeless. 

Give yourself a break. Work on this with a counselor some. Try to have some fun, even if others tell you something will be fun and you think it will be boring. You never know.


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## Herschel

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but there is no movement or ideal that I would want to die for.  I have to have something worth believing in before I would want to die for it.


Is it about what you want or what God wants? Really, you are looking to check out, so, what does it matter? Sign on for a holy quest, and it's a free entry into heaven.


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## uhtred

Have you committed some offense so terrible that it can never be redeemed and your you hope to reclaim your honor by willingliy sending yourself to hell as quickly as you can?

If not, then you still have life. If that life has no value to you, then spend it on something that matters, if not to you, then to someone else. You will be dead for all of eternity, why rush it.


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## Married but Happy

Herschel said:


> Is it about what you want or what God wants? Really, you are looking to check out, so, what does it matter? Sign on for a holy quest, and it's a free entry into heaven.


I'm a devout atheist, but IF God exists, I don't think merely signing on for a "holy" quest absolves you of improper intent or motivation, given common theological views of suicide.

As a pragmatist, I think suicide is an ethical option when the pain of living consistently outweighs and offsets any joy, and there is no realistic hope of changing that balance. Suffering is not noble, nor is death. On the other hand, neither is clinging to a life without hope. How you deal with it may be inspiring, but my view is that pragmatism for you own sake is what should control the decision.

If you can continue to live and function, and make a positive difference in the world - even if it's for only one person - then you life has meaning. If the meaning outweighs the negatives, why not carry on? Otherwise, I'd say there is little point, if you can't find one within yourself.


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## wellseasoned

I haven't read all the post so this may have been mentioned already, if it was please forgive me...

Hell is temporary, so is death. Its the Lake of Fire that is forever. If your name is not found in the Lambs Book of Life then you are tossed into the lake of Fire forever. You must be saved by Jesus Christ to enter Heaven. 
I am not God, so I am guessing if you are saved and commit suicide you may be tossed into Hell until the Great White Throne Judgment then allowed into Heaven. You may be in Hell a long time before set free. No one knows the end time date, so its a chance you take. Hell for you may be Depends and Lime Green Jello for thousands of years....:surprise:


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## As'laDain

All this talk of the afterlife...

Forget the afterlife, I have a life to live. I will live and love and find as much enjoyment as I can. And when I die, I'll deal with the afterlife. Until then, this life is a party and a blessing. One that I have no inherent right to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Thanks for all your comments guys. I have spent the day meditating and just kind of ruminating and I've come to the conclusion that my problem may be hormonal. I looked on the spreadsheet of the last bloodwork that I had done and it did not include T levels. So I'm going to get a work up done again and I will get my T level checked. 

Because, despite the fact that I'm active, work out and I eat well....I feel like crap. And I know there is no other reason why I should be feeling this way. My blood pressure is good, cholesterol is good, I have no anemia or anything, but I just feel fatigued all the time and it has definitely affected my mood and outlook. 

So I'm going to see my doc to see if he will refer me to a endocrinologist or virility specialist to see what the hell is wrong with me. 

Thank you all again for your cogent advice. Feeling sorry for myself is not a good thing. I don't like it.


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## sapientia

jld said:


> I would like to see you enjoy your life in the meantime.


Agreed^.

Bandit, do you have any interest in sharing your life's experiences--your wisdom--with others? You've reached the "Sage Stage", taken some hard knocks, and learned from them. I suspect you have a LOT to give back.

I don't know where you live or what your career has been like, but consider volunteering some time with a local college or school to share your wisdom. I work with young entrepreneurs and occasionally find satisfaction when I give one some advice that keeps them blowing themselves and their business up.

Entrepreneurship Meetups - Meetup


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## sapientia

As'laDain said:


> All this talk of the afterlife...
> 
> Forget the afterlife, I have a life to live. I will live and love and find as much enjoyment as I can. And when I die, I'll deal with the afterlife. Until then, this life is a party and a blessing. One that I have no inherent right to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Unweaving the Rainbow*
_“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. *In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?*” _

― Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow


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## MattMatt

> Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?


I don't know. But why risk taking the chance that it might?


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## jorgegene

I once met a woman suffering from severe depression.

she asked me to come close to her and cuddle. We really didn't say much, but after a while she said; "it hurts doesn't it?" I realy didn't feel what she did at the time, but I just nodded and said "yes".

Many years after that, I myself fell into a deep depression. There was nothing to live for at that time. I could see nothing in the future that might stop the pain. Then, I remembered that moment with the lady. Then i understood exactly what she meant. Yes, it hurt. It hurt real bad.

It hurt so bad,I didn't want to live.

here's the thing: I had no idea the joys that were ahead of me. I couldn't see it then.
but they were there.


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## sapientia

Excellent point. Thinking too much about depression can actually make you depressed. When you start to negatively spiral, think about something positive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mood-thought/201202/thinking-too-much-in-depression


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## arbitrator

sapientia said:


> Excellent point. Thinking too much about depression can actually make you depressed. When you start to negatively spiral, think about something positive.
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mood-thought/201202/thinking-too-much-in-depression


*In the rare moments whenever I might find myself depressed, just the mere thought of either of my two wonderful sons places air currents firmly beneath my wings!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

Hang in there Bandit. None of us really has an answer. Most of us suffer from depression at some time or another. Some of us suffer from debilitating depression at some point in our lives. Try everything you can. Do one thing at a time and see if it helps. 

I don't think any of us know what life is going to have in store. I hope you give life a chance. Oh, and I know you have no immediate plans. I just know you aren't really sure what is out there. Did you ever really know? That's something to ponder.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio. your philosophy ] i.e., philosophy (or learning) in general. The emphasis here should be on "dreamt of", as Hamlet is pointing out how little even the most educated people can explain."



I also consider the above when pondering on religion and god. I can't know. Notice the word, "can't". All I can do is best guess. Or as I sometimes post, guesstimate, which means I have a little knowledge and the rest is conjecture. The result being a guesstimate.


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## See_Listen_Love

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but there is no movement or ideal that I would want to die for. I have to have something worth believing in before I would want to die for it.


Seen your post about the neighborhood and this above: Maybe a geographical and social change of location is a good idea?

If you would live in a small community with an active church, they have always not enough hands for all the work to be done.
If you find new activities and new surroundings they will have a rejuvenating influence on your brain cells. It could be important to use the idea that what you look to is what you will be. Now you look at that neighborhood and that circle of AA, which sounds depressing to me. Get to look at positive things and you will get positive. Working towards goals in a group, being one with nature, having fun, I would go that direction.


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## Thound

Praying for you Bandit. I had no idea how bad you were hurting.


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## Herschel

Married but Happy said:


> I'm a devout atheist, but IF God exists, I don't think merely signing on for a "holy" quest absolves you of improper intent or motivation, given common theological views of suicide.


While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.

Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.


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## Married but Happy

Herschel said:


> While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.
> 
> Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.


So, you're saying that doing "good" things - even with sinful intent - is all that matters to God?


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## Herschel

Married but Happy said:


> So, you're saying that doing "good" things - even with sinful intent - is all that matters to God?


Give me an example of doing good deeds with malintent. Like, killing Hitler but doing it because you just wanted to kill someone?


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## Married but Happy

Herschel said:


> Give me an example of doing good deeds with malintent. Like, killing Hitler but doing it because you just wanted to kill someone?


Volunteering to fight ISIS but taking excess risks in hopes of being killed. Good deed, sinful intent (suicide).


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## Herschel

Married but Happy said:


> Volunteering to fight ISIS but taking excess risks in hopes of being killed. Good deed, sinful intent (suicide).


I guess this is more perspective as if ISIS has been right about everything, then fighting them won't get you into heaven. This also assumes that God says that suicide is bad (which I guess is the whole intent of this thread, the presumption that taking your own life means you are blacklisted). However, if you are just jumping in front of a bullet without trying to do the "holy" deed, then why even go through the effort of the charade when really the end result is the same. You would need to commit yourself to trying to do the work despite the odds. They seem to have the perfect knack of killing yourself and becoming a martyr, you would need to just take a page out of their handbook.


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## See_Listen_Love

Herschel said:


> While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.
> 
> Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.


There are a lot of vids on youtube, discussions between anti-theists and Christians, that deal with these issues. Or start a thread on the subject. You will be surprised :wink2:.


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## Satya

I'm not religious/devout any longer, but I do have a kind of faith (moral compass). 

I hope you find the answers you're seeking in some of the very uplifting and introspective posts. My hope is that whatever you decide, you do it with a glad, ready heart. 

Definitely take time to really live before you go pondering too deeply about death. There are experiences out there that remind you of what a vast world we live in and why it's worth living in. Usually it takes a detour along a skinny branch to get there, not something along our usual, repetitive paths of life.


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## switcher

There aint no Heaven and there aint no Hell

If ya think there is I got a bridge to sell.


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## georgiebean5855

I am a minister of 16 years 
Been christian counseling for 25. I have had complex partial seizures that I have had all my life . Matter of fact, I seizured all day yesterday.My right eye was put out when I was 3
I have spinal spondylosis 
But my strength is in the Lord that keeps me going every day 
I am a christian minister. I talk to suicidal people alot.
The Lord knows the exact second he wants you home
Do you have a true relationship with the Lord?
Do you have family,children?
Your decision will have an impact on alot of people.
I read all of the post Some don't want to answer you.
I gave a sermon on this 3 weeks ago. Only God knows
where you will go. BUT I feel that he is not through with you, even when in your eyes things look so bleak. God can at any given time do a miracle with your health,finances, what ever but you need to have faith, and forgiveness. I will check back. If you need to talk let me know.Be blessed 


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## Andy1001

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


Suicide may not prevent you getting into heaven(if such a place exists).However it may stop you being buried in the place you select.I have seen that happening.


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## sapientia

georgiebean5855 said:


> God [or luck, or any other entity of your choosing] can at any given time do a miracle with your health, finances, what ever but you need to have faith, and forgiveness.


I believe in a version of this. Where there's life, there's hope. I know too many people who thought they'd never [get a job, get healthy, find Love, etc.] and then... they did. One fellow was almost 50 when he found the love of his life. You just never give up.


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## GuyInColorado

Not sure how man made religions will keep you from Heaven. How do you know you picked the right one? It's a crapshoot. 

Sounds like you need to see a doctor who can scribe you some meds, you definitely sound depressed.


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## Mr The Other

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


I write as an ill-informed Catholic remembering what Priests have told me. I could be wrong, we could all be wrong. There are people who spend their time with little to wear and no lime jello to eat and are joyful at being alive. 

You will get to heaven. Does it matter? Do you think you will have a fun social life? Christ did not come for you with a message to live after death, but to live before death. You are in heaven already, that is what eternal means. But you do not know it. 

A sin is an error. A mistake. It is a sin as it is a huge error, it is the belief that your life has no value. You believe that because you are sinful, which means full of fear and confusion. You are going to die anyway, you can still live before then. Anthony DeMello writes about this (Catholic rather than Born-Again, but I am not sure it matters at all http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf) 

I have felt suicidal. It can get better. please, message me.


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## georgiebean5855

My wife and I have lost everything. We lost our home and business in one town. We moved to another town found a house. It was sold to us illegally so we lost 

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## georgiebean5855

That too. But we never gave up our hope in the Lord. He IS our strength and hope 
But we have to try our best in him

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## See_Listen_Love

georgiebean5855 said:


> I am a minister of 16 years
> Been christian counseling for 25. I have had complex partial seizures that I have had all my life . Matter of fact, I seizured all day yesterday.My right eye was put out when I was 3
> I have spinal spondylosis
> But my strength is in the Lord that keeps me going every day
> I am a christian minister. I talk to suicidal people alot.
> The Lord knows the exact second he wants you home
> Do you have a true relationship with the Lord?
> Do you have family,children?
> Your decision will have an impact on alot of people.
> I read all of the post Some don't want to answer you.
> I gave a sermon on this 3 weeks ago. Only God knows
> where you will go. BUT I feel that he is not through with you, even when in your eyes things look so bleak. God can at any given time do a miracle with your health,finances, what ever but you need to have faith, and forgiveness. I will check back. If you need to talk let me know.Be blessed
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk


Can we read or hear the sermon?


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## georgiebean5855

I can do this .
Judges 9:50-54, Judges 16:23-31.
1st Samual31:2-5, 2nd Samuel 17:23
1st Kings 16:15-20
Matthew 27:3-5.
We have these in the Bible,some great people 
Sampson asked for strength one last time 
Judas it says repented himself.
The others were selfish. Saul still got what he didn't want.



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## Thor

Bandit, getting old sucks! I've got the bad back to prove it.

Have you looked into testosterone therapy? I felt like Superman, like I was 18 again, when I was on it. My insurance didn't cover it, and I didn't go through a good doc, so I stopped it. Anyhow, I think it is worth you looking into it. It changed everything for the better for me. Everything. Except I got a little bit of acne, so that wasn't super. But my mental attitude, my physique, my virility, my sex drive, my sleep, .. everything was so much better.

I think the most interesting advice I've heard is to find out WHO we want to be. Find a role model. Don't think "I want to be in good shape", instead think "I want to be like the old guy down the street who is active and healthy at 80 yrs old".

My role model is Gene. Early one morning at the beach town we vacationed at for decades, I was standing on the sidewalk sipping a coffee watching the town wake up. From the right I see this old guy, looking every bit 80 yrs old, wearing gym shorts, t-shirt, and running shoes. He's doing that old man jogging, but getting along. Nice and tan. From the left comes Pat, one of the life guards, a woman in her early 20's, fit as all hell, wearing her bright red LifeGuard shorts and white Lifeguard T-shirt. She's running at a moderate clip, all sweaty. Gene and Pat pass right in front of me, each holding up their left hand as they pass and giving each other a high-5. She says "Hey Gene!", he says "Hey Pat!".

That's who I want to be, Gene. The old guy who is tan, still moving, and getting high-5s from the good looking women!

Who do you want to be?


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## TheTruthHurts

Yes I think so


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## Thor

Bandit, I also want to say that I completely understand your thought process on not being institutionalized as a decrepit old man. I've said more than once that I plan to walk into the woods and sit down on a cold evening when it is my time. Will I actually be able to do that, or will I be too impaired by then? Dunno, but I do understand your thoughts.

I think you're jumping the gun too much, though. We can't know what is around the corner for us. Tomorrow may be horrible. Or we may have a pretty good quality of life for another 40 years. We can make the decision when the time comes, but we cannot predict today exactly how close that day may be. Chances are it is still decades away for you. Until then live life balls to the wall, pedal to the metal.


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## Bobby5000

You seems like a nice person. It's hard to go beyond financial devastation but I can tell you two true stories. My grandfather was wealthy but made many financial mistakes, gambled somewhat, bought properties in the wrong area and lost hundreds of thousands, a large amount in the early 60's. I just saw some old movies though. He died at 58 from a heart attack which many attributed to stress and depression. We miss him. As his grandson, I did not care about money, but would have liked to have some time with him, and his financial worth 

And please do not underestimate the impact you can have on the world. I just heard of a man who had many setbacks in life but nonetheless helped at a local church I know. Today he is one of the most well-known people in the United States, having discovered the bomb left a train station and helped save many lives and apprehend a terrorist. I am sure he had less money than you, but he became a hero partly because he realized that each small step in the world can help someone.


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## See_Listen_Love

bandit.45 said:


> Pretty wholesome. No fast foods. Limited red meat, and then mostly wild game. I eat lots of oily fish and organic chicken. Loads of vegetables, fruit, legumes and I always start the day with oatmeal. I have been tested for gluten intolerance and do not have it, nor do I have any food allergies. I consume acedophilus enriched yogurt for my digestion. I also drink lots of green tea, Yerba mate kombucha. So I'm getting all the healthy microbes. No sugar. And I try to lay off the carbs as much as possible.
> 
> I probably eat too many eggs and potatoes, but I'm not giving those up.



Bandit, This is totally not adding up to your physical and mental state you described. Did you change to this diet after your physic went bad? If not, do you have found an explanation for the discrepancy?

Not to be berating, but in my world the people with all the illnesses have reasons for having the illnesses. This is absolutely a no go area in personal relation, because it lays 'guilt' on them, but there is a statistical connection in my opinion.

If there is no logical connection in traditional sense, there is the psychological research of Lissa Rankin, who learns us that a lot of physical illness is caused by psychological and relational issues which are not solved and destroy you ultimately.


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## Mr. Nail

The right to die is the final and most basic freedom. I don't understand how a freedom focused people could become so invested in denying this right.


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## Altair

Mr. Nail said:


> The right to die is the final and most basic freedom. I don't understand how a freedom focused people could become so invested in denying this right.


Because self inflicted death isn't usually a good decision even though the person making it thinks so at the time because they're not in their right mind.

No one here can answer the question in the thread title. 

Well they could but they have no way to prove it. 

You really want to chance it?


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## Herschel

Altair said:


> Because self inflicted death isn't usually a good decision


QFT, but not how you think. It usually isn't a good decision and it usually isn't applied. The rare instances where it occurs, well, who are you to judge whether it was a good decision.


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## Mr. Nail

This is one of the three big lies used to rob persons of this right.
Lie #1 Thoughts of suicide are proof of insanity. This is used by the state to justify their position.
Lie #2 God has already determined when and how you will die. This is used by religions to justify their position.
Lie #3 Suicide is a selfish act. Ironically this is used by selfish people to get what they want.


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## Altair

Mr. Nail said:


> This is one of the three big lies used to rob persons of this right.


No one is robbing anyone of any right.

If someone wants to commit suicide they're going to do it and no one's going to be able to stop them.

It's not like a person who is about to jump off a bridge needs permission.

Suicide causes damage to loved ones especially children. It isn't always but often can be a selfish, senseless act done by a person who isn't thinking straight.

If someone's dying from a fatal disease or they're paralyzed or in severe never ending pain, well that's another matter entirely.


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## bandit.45

See_Listen_Love said:


> Bandit, This is totally not adding up to your physical and mental state you described. Did you change to this diet after your physic went bad? If not, do you have found an explanation for the discrepancy?
> 
> Not to be berating, but in my world the people with all the illnesses have reasons for having the illnesses. This is absolutely a no go area in personal relation, because it lays 'guilt' on them, but there is a statistical connection in my opinion.
> 
> If there is no logical connection in traditional sense, there is the psychological research of Lissa Rankin, who learns us that a lot of physical illness is caused by *psychological and relational issues* which are not solved and destroy you ultimately.



I can only do what I can do brother. I'm a big guy with a large frame. I suffered a lot of injuries as a teenager. 

I'm built like an oak tree. I exercise and work out as much as I can but it doesn't make me feel any better, so I'm thinking I either have low T or there is something wrong with me in other ways. I'm scared I may have onset rheumatoid arthritis. So I may go see a rheumatologist. 

I have a meeting set up with a psychiatrist at the beginning of next month. I went through twenty before I found one who had time to see me. There must be a lot of mentally ill people in Houston! 

I also have another blood panel set up for next weekend.


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## GTdad

bandit.45 said:


> There must be a lot of mentally ill people in Houston!


I wouldn't want to be the guy who tries to argue that point.

I'm glad that you're looking at solutions. Ones other than taking the great celestial dirt nap, I mean.


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## bandit.45

GTdad said:


> I wouldn't want to be the guy who tries to argue that point.
> 
> I'm glad that you're looking at solutions. Ones other than taking the great celestial dirt nap, I mean.


It wasn't anything I was planning to do immediately. Just looking down the road twenty years.


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## Shades of Gray

Theologically, I don't think any of us would have the answer.

I do, however, hope that you find what you are looking for in this life and live that out happily without anything self-inflicted.


SOG


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## Andy1001

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.I had a suicide in my family a few years ago the guilt that the people left behind feel is indescribable.Im not sure where you live but try and get some professional help because you sound very depressed to me.


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## Mr. Nail

There are permanent problems.
Suicide is just another death. 
death leaves behind stuff.
". . . and I can take or leave it if *I Choose*."


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## bandit.45

Explain to me why a God, who creates each one of us with the fee will to choose salvation or not to, would then condemn a person for relinquishing life when physical pain gets to be too much to bear, and the quality of life is no longer there. If we are created with freewill, we should have the right to choose when we exit this world, and when, where and how we do so.


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## NoChoice

I cannot say with unwavering certainty but perhaps it is a test. There are many examples in the Bible wherein God tests people. Perhaps to prove your resolve, not so much to him but maybe more so to yourself. Job was the most extreme example I can recall. Then there was Christ himself. If he had chosen suicide it would have made salvation impossible. We all have crosses to bear, perhaps it is in the bearing that we are proven.


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> It wasn't anything I was planning to do immediately. Just looking down the road twenty years.


*No, Bandito! In the interim, you've got a date or so with some sizeable rural Burleson County porkers waiting for you and your big gun!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

arbitrator said:


> *No, Bandito! In the interim, you've got a date or so with some sizeable rural Burleson County porkers waiting for you and your big gun!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm left scratching my head, here, @arbitrator. Are these _romantic _dates, or _hunting _dates? The way you phrased it could apply to _either_.


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## bandit.45

See_Listen_Love said:


> Bandit, This is totally not adding up to your physical and mental state you described. Did you change to this diet after your physic went bad? If not, do you have found an explanation for the discrepancy?
> 
> Not to be berating, but in my world the people with all the illnesses have reasons for having the illnesses. This is absolutely a no go area in personal relation, because it lays 'guilt' on them, but there is a statistical connection in my opinion.
> 
> If there is no logical connection in traditional sense, there is the psychological research of Lissa Rankin, who learns us that a lot of physical illness is caused by psychological and relational issues which are not solved and destroy you ultimately.


I just noticed I did not answer your question. 

I have been trying to eat right and exercise for about four years now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

uhtred said:


> Have you committed some offense so terrible that it can never be redeemed and your you hope to reclaim your honor by willingliy sending yourself to hell as quickly as you can?
> 
> If not, then you still have life. If that life has no value to you, then spend it on something that matters, if not to you, then to someone else. You will be dead for all of eternity, why rush it.


Good point. Maybe I am punishing myself for something. I need to think about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Herschel said:


> I guess this is more perspective as if ISIS has been right about everything, then fighting them won't get you into heaven. This also assumes that God says that suicide is bad (which I guess is the whole intent of this thread, the presumption that taking your own life means you are blacklisted). However, if you are just jumping in front of a bullet without trying to do the "holy" deed, then why even go through the effort of the charade when really the end result is the same. You would need to commit yourself to trying to do the work despite the odds. They seem to have the perfect knack of killing yourself and becoming a martyr, you would need to just take a page out of their handbook.


Problem is I don't hate anyone badly enough to want to hurt anyone. I would make a lousy terrorist. I don't hate Muslims. I dont hate Obama. I don't even hate Hillary. Actually I find her quite entertaining.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Married but Happy said:


> I'm left scratching my head, here, @arbitrator. Are these _romantic _dates, or _hunting _dates? The way you phrased it could apply to _either_.


Hunting is romantic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I like to listen to Diane Reem and her husband, bedridden with Parkinstons, was not allowed an assisted death when his condition got so bad that he was no longer able to enjoy his life. They had been married over 50 years. So he spent the last 10 days of his life eating nothing, drinking no water and wasting away just to get the release he wanted. 

Does anyone here know what death by dehydration is like? It is one of the most agonizing ways to die there is. 

It is a cruel system that forces people to stay hooked up to I.V. and to spend the last years of their life laying in their own sh!t. All in the name of "sanctity of life". 

What about human dignity? Where does that factor in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso

bandit.45 said:


> hooked up to I.V. and to spend the last years of their life laying in their own sh!t. All in the name of "sanctity of life".
> 
> What about human dignity? Where does that factor in?


There's a bit of a difference between the situation you describe above and the one you're currently in.

Do you see it?


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## 2ntnuf

arbitrator said:


> *No, Bandito! In the interim, you've got a date or so with some sizeable rural Burleson County porkers waiting for you and your big gun!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get 'em Bandit. We want pics, too. 

I guess there are dogs involved? Not sure. Never read up on it. Sounds like fun.


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## bandit.45

caruso said:


> There's a bit of a difference between the situation you describe above and the one you're currently in.
> 
> Do you see it?


I'm not talking about me anymore. I'm talking about assisted euthanasia.


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## arbitrator

2ntnuf said:


> Get 'em Bandit. We want pics, too.
> 
> I guess there are dogs involved? Not sure. Never read up on it. Sounds like fun.


*No dogs needed. Just sit in a deer blind and pick them off! No hunting license needed for taking hogs in the Lone Star State!

I've seen packs of hogs ranging up to 50 or more out here!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

bandit.45 said:


> Problem is I don't hate anyone badly enough to want to hurt anyone. I would make a lousy terrorist. I don't hate Muslims. I dont hate Obama. *I don't even hate Hillary*. Actually I find her quite entertaining.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now I'm getting worried about you. >


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## caruso

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not talking about me anymore. I'm talking about assisted euthanasia.



Why?


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## Mr. Nail

Some states are opening up assisted euthanasia, but the regulations are pretty tight. Right now it's easier to buy the drugs on the street. Quality control is a problem, especially in Cleveland.


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## 2ntnuf

arbitrator said:


> *No dogs needed. Just sit in a deer blind and pick them off! No hunting license needed for taking hogs in the Lone Star State!
> 
> I've seen packs of hogs ranging up to 50 or more out here!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You could have a heck of a pig roast. No license? No dogs? You could take a bow, crossbow, handgun, a modern bot action and a lever gun. You could take a .54 cal flintlock longrifle and a percussion plains or mountain rifle. You could even try with a smoothbore flintlock. Bacon on the hoof. 

I hope you can find enough lettuce and tomato for all the BLTs. :smile2:


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## arbitrator

2ntnuf said:


> You could have a heck of a pig roast. No license? No dogs? You could take a bow, crossbow, handgun, a modern bot action and a lever gun. You could take a .54 cal flintlock longrifle and a percussion plains or mountain rifle. You could even try with a smoothbore flintlock. Bacon on the hoof.
> 
> I hope you can find enough lettuce and tomato for all the BLTs. :smile2:


*A lot of Texas ranchers/landowners would absolutely let you try to take them out with a Gatling gun, greatly provided that you signed off on a waiver that stated that you wouldn't hit any of their cattle in the process!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

caruso said:


> Why?


'Cuz its my fvcking thread ....


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## bandit.45

2ntnuf said:


> You could have a heck of a pig roast. No license? No dogs? You could take a bow, crossbow, handgun, a modern bot action and a lever gun. You could take a .54 cal flintlock longrifle and a percussion plains or mountain rifle. You could even try with a smoothbore flintlock. Bacon on the hoof.
> 
> I hope you can find enough lettuce and tomato for all the BLTs. :smile2:


I have a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser rifle with a Mannlicher stock. Perfect for picking off porkers on the run...


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## caruso

bandit.45 said:


> 'Cuz its my fvcking thread ....


My question being why are you talking about assisted suicide rather than whether or not you'll get into Heaven if you off yourself? 

Seems to me the original purpose of this thread was much more important but hey it's your life.


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## 2ntnuf

bandit.45 said:


> I have a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser rifle with a Mannlicher stock. Perfect for picking off porkers on the run...


Accurate as all get out, too.  

Mannlichers are really nice.


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## bandit.45

2ntnuf said:


> Accurate as all get out, too.
> 
> Mannlichers are really nice.


Love my 6.5x55. :smile2:


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> Love my 6.5x55. :smile2:


*Now that will seriously tenderize your pork!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

arbitrator said:


> *Now that will seriously tenderize your pork!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually it will just put a nice pretty, clean hole right through them and not damage any meat.


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## Bibi1031

I'm sorry to hear about your ailments. After loosing my mother, I can't help but think that life from here on after will not be very meaningful for me either. 

Sorry about your loss of retirement. That is scary. 

You sound depressed and with a good degree of reason. I am depressed as well. I want a big change, but most definitely not death...that would be a final and point of no return change. 

I am free as a bird now and I want to live that way. I quit my job and didn't return to work at the end of this summer. I have 4 more years til early retirement, but I just don't want to wait anymore. 

Do you own or do you rent?

I rented out my home and bought an RV. I am living in it full time. I park it in my back yard and pay my renter 1/4 of the electric and water bill to stay there. I also rented out my mother's house which I inherited after she died. I made a smaller house in the backyard of mom's house and rented that out too. All three homes got rented out in about 3 weeks that I put them up for rent!

I reported that as my rental income and I applied for Obamacare. I have insurance now and I don't pay an arm and a leg for it! I don't make much as rent in Texas is too darn cheap, but I owe nothing as I bought and paid for the small house and RV with my savings. I make less, but work nothing and am free to travel and take off wherever I very well please. 

I feel happier now than I have in years! I can live with the moderate income I get and wait for the 4 years I need to get my early retirement. 

Have you given the full time RVing life a look at? It's worth it, if you don't like living in the same darn place year after year. 

I am getting ready to take flight as soon as I purchase the right type of vehicle to move my RV in. I also need to practice handling it on the road. I am no longer depressed and suicidal. I am optimistic about my future. I have to be careful what type of vehicle I purchase, as this will more than likely fully deplete my savings, but it is worth every penny to finally be barefoot and fancy free!

Just my two cents worth and some food for thought.


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## notmyrealname4

Bibi1031 said:


> *I rented out my home and bought an RV. I am living in it full time.* I park it in my back yard and pay my renter 1/4 of the electric and water bill to stay there.




Lucky!!!:smile2:


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## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.
> 
> I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.
> 
> I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.
> 
> My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.
> 
> I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.
> 
> The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.
> 
> So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.
> 
> I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.


You need to get laid man. Consider "contracting out" these services.

At this point, what difference does it make if you're not gonna live past 60?

Least it'll put a smile on your face and a hop in your step especially after reading this.......


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## Mr. Nail

BetrayedDad said:


> You need to get laid man. Consider "contracting out" these services.
> 
> At this point, what difference does it make if you're not gonna live past 60?
> 
> Least it'll put a smile on your face and a hop in your step especially after reading this.......


I'm betting the anti suicide crowd will also claim that this option will also bar you from heaven.


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## Bibi1031

notmyrealname4 said:


> Lucky!!!:smile2:


Not really. I should of gotten rid of excess stuff and rented my home the minute my son left and I was an empty nester back in 2006! All that money on rent would have allowed me to be debt free much sooner. Oh well, live and learn.


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## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> _*You need to get laid man*_. Consider "contracting out" these services.
> 
> At this point, what difference does it make if you're not gonna live past 60?
> 
> Least it'll put a smile on your face and a hop in your step especially after reading this.......


Actually I have a date set up for tomorrow morning: a breakfast date with a nice lady I've been working with on a project. Should be fun. I haven't been out with anyone for a while. Breakfast, then we go to the Houston Art Museum.


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## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> Actually I have a date set up for tomorrow morning: a breakfast date with a nice lady I've been working with on a project. Should be fun. I haven't been out with anyone for a while. Breakfast, then we go to the Houston Art Museum.


It's about f****** time.

You have too much commitment, humor, and passion to be a hermit.


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## bandit.45

farsidejunky said:


> It's about f****** time.
> 
> You have too much commitment, humor, and passion to be a hermit.


I will unleash the charm army tomorrow.


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## MrsAldi

I hope that you have a great time!


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## bandit.45

MrsAldi said:


> I hope that you have a great time!


I did. She's a nice lady. It was nice to hang out with a lady again.


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## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> I did. She's a nice lady. It was nice to hang out with a lady again.


Good, Bandito. When is the follow up?


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## bandit.45

farsidejunky said:


> Good, Bandito. When is the follow up?


There won't be. No chemistry. I knew within the first five minutes she wasn't into me, so I just switched into pal mode and took her home after the museum.


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## bandit.45

MattMatt can you please close this thread? It has run its course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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