# Once a cheater, always a cheater?



## UsagiNeko (Aug 15, 2012)

Four months ago, my husband admitted that he cheated on me with my best friend. He says it was emotional affair and that the only physical thing they did was kiss. Ever since then, he claims that they have ended their affair, but has still admitted that the feelings are still there.

We are getting separated (not divorced, just moving away from each other) in two weeks, not just because he cheated, but for bigger, more personal reasons in our relationship (i.e. bad communication, depression and anxiety issues). He says he still loves me very much, and wants to stay but feels like he has to leave for his own good. 

However, I have continually express my suspicions that he may still be cheating on me. He still talks with my best friend because we've all been friends for years, but recently he's become very secretive whenever he talks to her (leaving the apartment to talk to her on the phone, hiding his phone from my view when he texts her). He swears that he isn't, that the feelings are dying down, that he's not going into another relationship for a long time because of what the two of us are going through because he still loves me, and that my anxiety is getting to me. 

Well, I've looked at his texts while he wasn't looking, and I can see they've been calling each other "babe," "sweetheart," "love/my love," and have been mildly flirting. One night, he went to hang out with her and a few other friends and when she dropped him off, I saw them share a pretty affectionate hug. They were behind another car so I couldn't see them very well, but I could tell that she was stroking the back of his head and his face, and although I couldn't tell for sure, it looked like they might've kissed.

I just don't know what to do. I feel like even though he says there's nothing going on at the moment, I feel like he's still lying to me. Is it cuz he doesn't want to face any more conflict because of all the emotional stress we're going through? Maybe he's lying to me to try to protect me from getting more hurt than I am already? Maybe he feels because we're getting separated he doesn't have to be completely honest with me anymore? I feel like I should confront him about the texts and that night I saw them hug, but I'm afraid, mainly because I feel ashamed for spying and snooping (and because I'm a conflict avoider myself).

It just really hurts that he may still be lying to me. I'm already hurting enough as it is because despite everything, I still love him very much. Any advice on what to do? How to cope?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

He's taken the affair underground and using the separation to make the affair sexual (if it hasn't already) and guilt free. Hence if you ever decide to reconcile and he admits to further infidelity with your best friend, he'll excuse it on the basis that you were separated. He's using you as the back up option. If it doesn't work out between them, which it won't; affair relationships only have a 3% success rate, he'll at least have you to fall back on. 

This man doesn't love you. Out of all the people he chose your best friend, that's a low thing to do in my opinion.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

The affair became physical when they kissed. He never severed contact with her when he admitted it to you, and what you saw on the texts bears out that the affair never ended at all. 

He's gaslighting you by blaming your anxiety. Yes, you have anxiety, because your husband broke your trust -- and with your best friend, no less!! He's done nothing to lessen your anxiety, which should happen if a.) he's truly sorry, and b.) he truly loves you.

I'm sorry -- this is a double betrayal for you. Obviously, she's no friend at all to do this to you. You saw what you saw just by looking out the window (I assume), regardless of the evidence you saw in the texts. That's just icing.

To answer your question, I don't think it's 'once a cheater' -- it's *still* a cheater. He never stopped. You deserve better than someone who treats you like this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't even think I'd bother confronting him at this point. He's lied and he's gaslighted you. Just get your legal things in order and protect yourself. I know it's hard when you love him, but he is choosing to treat you this way, and that's wrong, and is not lovable behavior.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

I agree 100% with what the other posters stated.

The only reason he wants to separate is to have a dry run with the OW -- and if things don't work out with her -- you are his plan B.

My suggestion would be to go straight to divorce -- and move on with your life. You have been betrayed by two of the people you trusted the most -- your husband and your so called best friend. She is not even a friend -- and don't trust her as well.

This will not be easy -- but you deserve more out of life than being someone's plan B.

You have to take care of yourself, eat healthy, exercise, sleep. etc -- and remain strong throughout.

Post alot here on TAM -- you will be given great advice as well as receive awesome support.

Good luck !!


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Re: Once a cheater, always a cheater?

Uuuuh, yeah! If you don't believe it, just follow up on a cheater's actions after you dump them. In many cases they are already looking for companionship elsewhere while living with their OP.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Tell me you have ***** slapped the "best friend"???

He is still screwing around. You need to make the separation a divorce like NOW. 

Tell him you know he is a lying dirt bag.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Any advice on what to do? How to cope?


*Yes, skip the separation and go right to a Divorce!!!*


He is lying to you. You have seen his actions with your BFF with your own eyes.

I do not care if you still love him, you wanna know why?

*Because he does not deserve your love, He is not worthy of your love.*

Go find a real man that is worthy of you.......

Tell us how old you two are, how long you guys are together and if you have any kids.

HM64


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

He's lying and using the separation as a way to carry on the affair.

Otherwise he wouldn't be saying things that cheaters say 'i want to stay but have to leave for my own good'. 
That's a line straight from the cheater handbook.Don't fall for it.As for this best friend don't worry she'll get what's coming to her.If he can't be faithful to you he sure as hell won't be faithful to her either.Wait til the excitement of sneaking around goes away.That's when the real relationship starts and suddenly this perfect man she thinks she has will disappear and she'll have to deal with the same mess that you are dealing with now.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I think he's using the separation to pursue a relationship with your former (I hope) best friend. If it doesn't work out, then he can come back to you if he wants. He knows you love him.

Maybe you can take this time apart & stop worrying about "kisses & hugs" & focus on yourself & healing from this mess. You are NOT his focus right now. Why should he be yours?


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## UsagiNeko (Aug 15, 2012)

The reason why we're not getting divorced right away is because we're both going through pretty bad depression (him more so than me) and divorce right now would make us feel even worse. We're going to use the separation to spend time apart from each other, get professional help, then later down the road figure out what the two of us really want (which may end up in a divorce anyway if he doesn't get his act together).

Sometimes I wonder if he really loves her or just needs her to kiss his wounds. He has openly told me that she is the only one he really trusts and claims she says all the right things to make him feel better, and every time he tries to contact her when he's feeling down and she's not available, he gets extremely upset. I've told him this, saying she is not his therapist, and he agrees, but I don't think it's really sunk in that he might be using her as one. 

This is why I'm also afraid he's not going to get real help for his depression (we're pretty sure he's also has A.D.D., which makes it even more difficult to cope). He's seeing a therapist (a real one) but he's not being treated medically. He's already made many comments about how life doesn't mean anything, how he's never going to succeed, and how he wishes he could die. Despite being bitter and mad about the whole infidelity thing, I still love him enough to urge him to get treated, because I cannot bear the thought of him ever losing his life. Every time I urge him to get evaluated, it's always the same two excuses not to do it ASAP: time and money (which I understand, but what's more important: money, or your life?).


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He's following the cheater script to a T alright. 

Do you have children with him? If not, then there's no need to pursue this further. Lawyer up and let him go. He's using the separation to take it further with his OW.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

UsagiNeko said:


> The reason why we're not getting divorced right away is because we're both going through pretty bad depression (him more so than me) and divorce right now would make us feel even worse. We're going to use the separation to spend time apart from each other, get professional help, then later down the road figure out what the two of us really want (which may end up in a divorce anyway if he doesn't get his act together).
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if he really loves her or just needs her to kiss his wounds. He has openly told me that she is the only one he really trusts and claims she says all the right things to make him feel better, and every time he tries to contact her when he's feeling down and she's not available, he gets extremely upset. I've told him this, saying she is not his therapist, and he agrees, but I don't think it's really sunk in that he might be using her as one.
> 
> This is why I'm also afraid he's not going to get real help for his depression (we're pretty sure he's also has A.D.D., which makes it even more difficult to cope). He's seeing a therapist (a real one) but he's not being treated medically. He's already made many comments about how life doesn't mean anything, how he's never going to succeed, and how he wishes he could die. Despite being bitter and mad about the whole infidelity thing, I still love him enough to urge him to get treated, because I cannot bear the thought of him ever losing his life. Every time I urge him to get evaluated, it's always the same two excuses not to do it ASAP: time and money (which I understand, but what's more important: money, or your life?).


He's bluffing to drag this whole ordeal out. He's keeping you on the hook while he is fooling around. He is living a fantasy one that is going to destroy your relationship in the real world. The only way to get him out of this fog is to get off his hook. Then figure out what he wants.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Depression is not an excuse to cheat. He is making you feel worse by cheating on you. He needs to come clean on exactly what he's doing (i.e., the cheating, not his depression) before he can deal with any other mental health issues. 

There is a difference between mental illness and a weak moral character. They are not mutually exclusive. Take my word for it. 

Depression is not a license to hurt people or violate trust or betray vows. If so, why aren't you doing it too? You have depression yourself? Do you feel like that gives you the right to take a lover? Apparently not. Why? Because you do see the difference. You are just holding yourself to a higher standard than the one to which you're holding your husband. Don't do that. Don't sell yourself short -- you deserve someone who respects your vows just as you do. 

A.D.D. and depression are not insurmountable. He can keep his attention span together long enough to gaslight you and hide what he's doing with OW. He is not too depressed to go out and have fun. I am speaking from personal experience. There is real mental illness. I am treated for depression myself, and have been for many years, so I'm not being harsh on those who are ill. But I also know from my own marriage to someone with multiple diagnoses that those same diagnoses become a license to misbehave for some people. 

I think the same is true with your husband. Don't coddle him. You are not helping him at all -- and most importantly, you are hurting yourself. You are adding to your own pain by covering for him.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Usagi, my heart breaks for you. Your instincts are entirely accurate. He is carrying on his affair under your very nose.

Please look at the link in my signature, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It is a link to the google excerpts of the book. It doesn't have the whole book but you can see how it directly addresses your situation. You can easily get the book at most libraries, and if your library doesn't have it, they can request it via interlibrary loan.

His betrayal of you is extremely, extremely deep. He must end all contact with your "best friend" in order for there to be any chance of this emotional affair ending. You can see for yourself, he is all about words, but actions speak FAR louder. Once two people are infatuated (this isn't LOVE, because reality hasn't tested it in any shape or form), if one of them is married and wishes to recommit to the marriage, they must end all contact with their affair partner for that recommitment to work. That is just the way it is.

I feel for you, because to move on from this, you will have to also end your relationship with your "best friend." But truly, she is NO best friend to you and hasn't been so for a very long time now.


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## Monroe (Jun 21, 2012)

My husband used "depression" as an excuse to continue his affair after d-day. I felt sorry for him for about a minute... then I realized what he was doing. He was making excuses to have (continue) an emotional affair.

Read up on the 180... start doing it ASAP.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Being depressed or having psychological problems doesn't cause you to be dishonest. It's not a free ticket to cheat. It's a copout excuse that cheaters will often try to play.

That's why I keep harping on about "Narcissism". Your CH sounds like he has a pretty good dose of it. He is showing no remorse. 

It's good that you're separating. Focus on YOU. Exercise, eat well, surround yourself with good people. Keep contact with him to a minimum. Because in all likelyhood, he will come back begging, pretending to be remorseful. Craving his narcissistic supply.

Don't believe anything, and I mean anything he says.


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## UsagiNeko (Aug 15, 2012)

I had a dream last night that I was looking through his text messages again, and not only were they flirting, they were sending each other hentai images (a.k.a. animated porn), and saying things like "I can't wait to be together," or "Looking forward to our date." I got little sleep of it last night, and when I woke up I told him about it. Of course he tells me "Don't worry, it was just a dream" (although I'm sure the porn image part is not true and really out of character).

I've been reading up on the 180, and have decided not to confront him about the texts (the real ones), because if anything it might push him even more to carry on his EA. I gonna try my best to move forward and do what the list says, even if I am still hurting.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

UsagiNeko said:


> The reason why we're not getting divorced right away is because we're both going through pretty bad depression (him more so than me) and divorce right now would make us feel even worse. We're going to use the separation to spend time apart from each other, get professional help, then later down the road figure out what the two of us really want (which may end up in a divorce anyway if he doesn't get his act together).
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if he really loves her or just needs her to kiss his wounds. He has openly told me that she is the only one he really trusts and claims she says all the right things to make him feel better, and every time he tries to contact her when he's feeling down and she's not available, he gets extremely upset. I've told him this, saying she is not his therapist, and he agrees, but I don't think it's really sunk in that he might be using her as one.
> 
> This is why I'm also afraid he's not going to get real help for his depression (we're pretty sure he's also has A.D.D., which makes it even more difficult to cope). He's seeing a therapist (a real one) but he's not being treated medically. He's already made many comments about how life doesn't mean anything, how he's never going to succeed, and how he wishes he could die. Despite being bitter and mad about the whole infidelity thing, I still love him enough to urge him to get treated, because I cannot bear the thought of him ever losing his life. Every time I urge him to get evaluated, it's always the same two excuses not to do it ASAP: time and money (which I understand, but what's more important: money, or your life?).


You are just swallowing a line of bullsh!t. The only reason he doesn't want a divorce is to keep you as a backup plan. What has your bff said to you about banging your husband?


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

It sucks that there is no winning here. You only get to lose what you love. Rotten how people change.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

UsagiNeko said:


> I had a dream last night that I was looking through his text messages again, and not only were they flirting, they were sending each other hentai images (a.k.a. animated porn), and saying things like "I can't wait to be together," or "Looking forward to our date." I got little sleep of it last night, and when I woke up I told him about it. Of course he tells me "Don't worry, it was just a dream" (although I'm sure the porn image part is not true and really out of character).
> 
> I've been reading up on the 180, and have decided not to confront him about the texts (the real ones), because if anything it might push him even more to carry on his EA. I gonna try my best to move forward and do what the list says, even if I am still hurting.


Not long before I found my husband's secret email account, he had a dream that he couldn't get to the computer to communicate to his AP. I know because he typed it up in an email to her that I found.

I don't believe dreams foretell the future. But I do believe that sometimes your subconscious is screaming at you in a dream.


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

Monroe said:


> My husband used "depression" as an excuse to continue his affair after d-day. I felt sorry for him for about a minute... then I realized what he was doing. He was making excuses to have (continue) an emotional affair.
> 
> Read up on the 180... start doing it ASAP.


What's an 180?


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

Usaki, why don't you talk to your 'best friend' about what your husband promises you, how much he loves you etc. See how she reacts.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

UsagiNeko said:


> The reason why we're not getting divorced right away is because we're both going through pretty bad depression (him more so than me) and divorce right now would make us feel even worse. We're going to use the separation to spend time apart from each other, get professional help, then later down the road figure out what the two of us really want (which may end up in a divorce anyway if he doesn't get his act together).
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if he really loves her or just needs her to kiss his wounds. *He has openly told me that she is the only one he really trusts and claims she says all the right things to make him feel better, and every time he tries to contact her when he's feeling down and she's not available, he gets extremely upset. * I've told him this, saying she is not his therapist, and he agrees, but I don't think it's really sunk in that he might be using her as one.
> 
> This is why I'm also afraid he's not going to get real help for his depression (we're pretty sure he's also has A.D.D., which makes it even more difficult to cope). He's seeing a therapist (a real one) but he's not being treated medically. He's already made many comments about how life doesn't mean anything, how he's never going to succeed, and how he wishes he could die. Despite being bitter and mad about the whole infidelity thing, I still love him enough to urge him to get treated, because I cannot bear the thought of him ever losing his life. Every time I urge him to get evaluated, it's always the same two excuses not to do it ASAP: time and money (which I understand, but what's more important: money, or your life?).


This is a massive red flag Usagi. He's essentially saying your best friend supersedes you in all emotional qualities. Suppose you turned around and told him his bestfriend is the only guy you fully trust and can make you feel happy, how do you think that'll make him feel, will he stick around?

That's the most insulting thing you can say to a partner and he's clearly inlove with her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

lisabella said:


> What's an 180?


The Healing Heart: The 180


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## UsagiNeko (Aug 15, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I don't believe dreams foretell the future. But I do believe that sometimes your subconscious is screaming at you in a dream.


Oh absolutely. My therapist and I were talking about the subconscious and how amazing it is the other day (i.e. she had me draw a portrait of a person and she analyzed it based on my subconscious). But yeah, I'm sure that on top of the anxiety I have makes me have some strange dreams/nightmares.

As for the "best friend," I haven't been talking to her at all, and if we ever see each other in person when we're hanging out with a group of friends, I try my best to ignore her, and she understands that. I'm pretty sure that my husband talks to her a lot about our marriage and what the two of us talk about (he likes to talk a lot), though like lisabella indicated, he probably doesn't tell her what he says to me. It hurts though because even though I can't trust her anymore and feel like we can never be the same again, I still miss her and the friendship the three of us use to have.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Usagi, why don't your mutual friends know all about this?


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## UsagiNeko (Aug 15, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Usagi, why don't your mutual friends know all about this?


I have two different groups of friends. One knows about both the separation and the EA my husband and ex-friend had, the other only knows about the separation. The ones who know about the EA feel sympathetic towards me, and as far as I know some have grown to dislike my ex-best friend because of it. Not sure what they feel about my husband though. The other group of friends may find out eventually (I may tell them myself), especially if I wanna still be friends with them, they'll need to understand why I won't want my ex-best friend to be there at some future events.


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