# UBT: “Cheating is a symptom, not the disease”



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

UBT: “Cheating is a symptom, not the disease”

March 22, 2016 by @chumplady

This Carolyn Hax column, “Getting past a spouse’s cheating requires honesty on both sides” has been in my Universal Bull**** Translator file for a few weeks. Had to oil up the UBT transponders to take this one on…

Hax is remarkably tone deaf on infidelity. In fairness, she’s just spewing the conventional Reconciliation Industrial Complex standard issue stuff — affairs can make your marriage all sparkly and new and better than before! Affairs are just a symptom of a bad marriage, they aren’t the cause. And the requisite false equivalency that both sides are at fault.

Honesty is required? Really? Honestly, I’m sorry you were out trolling on Craigslist. Honestly, I regret marrying you. Honestly, I’ve moved all your **** over to your ****buddy’s trailer. 

Who doesn’t like honesty?

On to the UBT…

* Dear Carolyn: I caught my husband cheating. We’ve started couples’ counseling. The counselor told him he needed to let me ask all my questions about the affair, and we had that conversation at home. I do feel better now, but he was evasive on a few of the questions: “Did you tell her you loved her?” (he dodged, unconvincingly), and “Who initiated the affair?” (he doesn’t know I know it was a lie to say she did).

How much of a red flag is this? Do I allow him to fudge some details so he doesn’t look like quite the glass bowl he was, or do I take this to mean his outward remorse and commitment to repairing our relationship are not as real as they mostly feel?

After Cheating*

Dear After Cheating,

Remorse isn’t about how you feel, it’s about what he DOES.

What he’s doing is not answering your questions. Because he weighs his discomfort (assuming he feels shame) over your need for the truth (and your pain, which is much more considerable than his discomfort).

He’s an entitled glass bowl. (A**hole is such an ugly word. Cheaters aren’t a**holes, they’re misunderstood pieces of crockery.)

(read the rest here)


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It's true.

Infidelity IS a symptom.

Sh*tty morals are the _real_ problem.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I always thought of it as extreme selfishness, from my own experience... but sh!tty morals works well there also.

Fortunately, I found cure.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

workindad said:


> Fortunately, I found cure.


Me too... Amputation of the diseased member.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

workindad said:


> I always thought of it as extreme selfishness, from my own experience... but sh!tty morals works well there also.
> 
> Fortunately, I found cure.


Glad you realized there was a cure and took it!!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Me too... Amputation of the diseased member.


Oh yeah...the quicker the amputation the better...>


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Glad you realized there was a cure and took it!!


I took the divorce (cure in my case) as quickly as I could. Best move I could have made, although there wasn't much of a choice at the time.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

workindad said:


> I took the divorce (cure in my case) as quickly as I could. Best move I could have made, although there wasn't much of a choice at the time.


Are you happier without the XW?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

You know how I feel about this. The Cheater is the only one with the disease.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> You know how I feel about this. The Cheater is the only one with the disease.


 @chumplady cuts through the bullsh!t a lot of people try to get the BS to buy in the shadow of dday..thats one of the reasons I really like her...


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you happier without the XW?


Yes, very much so. Am engaged now to someone who treats me better than I have ever experienced in my life.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't fall for it again. It's just skin.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

workindad said:


> Yes, very much so. Am engaged now to someone who treats me better than I have ever experienced in my life.


I wish I could find a woman like that, most are just parasites looking for a cash-daddy.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

workindad said:


> Yes, very much so. Am engaged now to someone who treats me better than I have ever experienced in my life.


A lot of BSa are fearful in the shadow of Dday - understandably so - BUT too many doubt that there is something better out there once they shed the WS...I think CL trys to show them that - what is her motto "leave a cheater gain a life" - unfortunately too any BSs dont see it that way instead they think "cling to a cheater keep a life" - but what are you keeping exactly? Someone willing to devastate you in the cruelest way possible - lie, cheat, gaslight, blameshift at the end of the day what have you saved? 

What I think would help is changing divorce laws and penalizing cheaters in the divorce settlements to give the BS a sense of justice..adultery should be a tort at the very least and should cost the cheater big time. 

I'm glad you have found happiness...too many BS believe in the wrong person the WS instead of themselves...


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> I wish I could find a woman like that, most are just parasites looking for a cash-daddy.


There are good women out there- keep your options open, you'll likely find one. 

My XWW is as you describe above. I couldn't make enough money to keep her happy. That is no way to live a fulfilling life.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I'm glad you have found happiness...too many BS believe in the wrong person the WS instead of themselves...


Thank you, I'm pretty excited about it as well. 

I can't say that I wouldn't have tried to R though. I really don't know. R was never an option for me as my XWW couldn't get rid of me fast enough. That turned out to be a very good thing for me in the end.

Best 
WD


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

workindad said:


> There are good women out there- keep your options open, you'll likely find one.
> 
> My XWW is as you describe above. I couldn't make enough money to keep her happy. That is no way to live a fulfilling life.


Exactly...I think the work toe BS should do in the wake of dday is figure out why they picked their spouse and how to be a better "spouse picker" the next time..I read in an article those who have been cheated on have a higher chance of beig cheated on again...I think they need to figure out why they chose the way they did and alter that...

But there are A LOT of good women out there


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

workindad said:


> Thank you, I'm pretty excited about it as well.
> 
> I can't say that I wouldn't have tried to R though. I really don't know. R was never an option for me as my XWW couldn't get rid of me fast enough. That turned out to be a very good thing for me in the end.
> 
> ...


I get it - you didn't leap ad much as you were pushed but that was a good thing..even if you tried R - what would you have won at the end of that day? Think about that...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

workindad said:


> There are good women out there- keep your options open, you'll likely find one.
> 
> My XWW is as you describe above. I couldn't make enough money to keep her happy. That is no way to live a fulfilling life.


No he wont, he needs a major attitude adjustment, a good woman wouldn't stand for being treated like a secondary human being. He knows what i am talking about too.

Sometimes we have to look at ourselves and the role played in our own failures and disappointments. Even now in April 2016 STDD is still singing the same tune, i.e. all women are be--ches and all want men for their money. Pluzzzz give me a break.

All women do not need men for their money, I for one, gave up a career twice to support my WW&AH career. 

Now I have got more qualifications and can walk out with my own money cause I got a great job and did it myself for myself after many years of supporting his career aspirations and being a stay at home wife. 

He lost respect for me because he too had the same attitude and even once told me what was I going to do anyway, where was I going to go? That hurt me deeply because there was no regard for what I brought to the table. Domestic support for his life was always there, he didn't nothing else but work and play golf. I did all plus held down a part time and now full time job.

Well I am now showing him that I do not need him for his money. I am in the marriage for other reasons and I deserve respect and to be treated right. He can no longer use his money or earning power as a leverage. 

Perhaps you should see what is that you bring to the table in a relationship, if it is just money, well sorry but that is not enough. Maybe your LT partner felt the same way.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

aine said:


> No he wont, he needs a major attitude adjustment, a good woman wouldn't stand for being treated like a secondary human being. He knows what i am talking about too.
> 
> Sometimes we have to look at ourselves and the role played in our own failures and disappointments. Even now in April 2016 STDD is still singing the same tune, i.e. all women are be--ches and all want men for their money. Pluzzzz give me a break.
> 
> ...


I agree with this...there are plenty of good women out there who run into dirt bag men..plenty...I think what a lot of folk should do in light of a break up is ask themselves what they want out of a partner and how to attract that. Sometimes the BS needs to fix their "partner picker" before they can even think about entering a new relationship...but to blame 100% of the opposite sex is just ridiculous...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> It's true.
> 
> Infidelity IS a symptom.
> 
> Sh*tty morals are the _real_ problem.


Sh*tty spouses are the real problem, not morals. Morals are a human construct. 

Take your average TAM spouse stuck in a sexless relationship thru no fault of their own and tell me again if morals are the issue.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> Sh*tty spouses are the real problem, not morals.


A spouse w/ sh*tty morals will be a sh*tty spouse.



john117 said:


> Morals are a human construct.


As is marriage.



john117 said:


> Take your average TAM spouse stuck in a sexless relationship thru no fault of their own and tell me again if morals are the issue.


Where infidelity is concerned?

Yes.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hax got pregnant by her second hb while still married to her first. 

I'm not sure she's qualified to counsel a betrayed spouse. 

Having said that, cheating doesn't mean betrayed spouse had no part in marital problems, it means that cheater chose a selfish and sh!tty way to deal with it. 

If this one's hb can't be completely honest she's wasting her time with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My village in a rather religious and backwards type of place in Europe is full of moral people, and cheating is rampant. The same moral farmer that fasts thru Lent has no problem cheating or being cheated on assuming pretenses are kept.

Good people are good regardless of morals. Bad people are bad regardless of morals.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

john117 said:


> My village in a rather religious and backwards type of place in Europe is full of moral people, and cheating is rampant. The same moral farmer that fasts thru Lent has no problem cheating or being cheated on assuming pretenses are kept.
> 
> Good people are good regardless of morals. Bad people are bad regardless of morals.


Those people are practicing different morals than they are pretending to hold. They pretend to hold religious morals by fasting but betray their true morals when they choose repeatedly to go against those morals.

They're liars and pretenders.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And the moral business owner who is faithful to his vows ends up hosing his own employees or customers... 

People are people regardless. A problem I used to give to my students was to prove that such and such bad action is wrong without using moral grounds, ie why is robbing a bank wrong? Do the same analysis for cheating, especially with questionable quality spouses, and you'll see what I mean. 

Better living thru operations research


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Cheating is a symptom, not the disease, no it's just a worse disease

It's like trying to cure Syphilis by intentionally getting AIDS


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> Cheating is a symptom, not the disease, no it's just a worse disease
> 
> It's like trying to cure Syphilis by intentionally getting AIDS


or resolving a trade dispute with nuclear weapons...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

john117 said:


> And the moral business owner who is faithful to his vows ends up hosing his own employees or customers...
> 
> People are people regardless. A problem I used to give to my students was to prove that such and such bad action is wrong without using moral grounds, ie why is robbing a bank wrong? Do the same analysis for cheating, especially with questionable quality spouses, and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> Better living thru operations research



Nothing is wrong if there are no morals. We become just wild animals in the jungle, taking all we can get for ourselves, and destroying anyone or anything we think may be some kind of threat (or destroying just for the fun of it).

One cannot be a moral person if one does not consistently act in a moral way.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

it's all called "sin" . No-one is perfect, some less than others. 
In the country I live in we all fuss and fume about high level corruption, yet many bribe the local police so they wont get speeding fines, or pass a few bucks to the local civil servant to speed up an application. The level of hypocrisy is amazing. To my mind if one is willing to bribe someone at a low level, give them power and wealth I am sure one will be equally as bad.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

aine said:


> it's all called "sin" . No-one is perfect, some less than others.
> In the country I live in we all fuss and fume about high level corruption, yet many bribe the local police so they wont get speeding fines, or pass a few bucks to the local civil servant to speed up an application. The level of hypocrisy is amazing. To my mind if one is willing to bribe someone at a low level, give them power and wealth I am sure one will be equally as bad.


My father used to call this the "good for me and fvck you" attitude.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> And the moral business owner who is faithful to his vows ends up hosing his own employees or customers...
> 
> People are people regardless. A problem I used to give to my students was to prove that such and such bad action is wrong without using moral grounds, ie why is robbing a bank wrong? Do the same analysis for cheating, especially with questionable quality spouses, and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> Better living thru operations research


LOL.

Can I turn my paper in at any time, or do I have to wait until the end of the term, Professor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL.
> 
> Can I turn my paper in at any time, or do I have to wait until the end of the term, Professor?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any time is fine 

Do the numbers...the average bank hoist earns a few thousand dollars at best, high probability of being caught, multi year prison sentence... Then you find that unless we're talking Great Train Robbery type hoists the payoff is not worth the risk. If the average return was six or seven figures the risk / reward situation is different. 

In other words, robbing banks is not profitable. No morality consideration whatsoever . 

Morality is great when humans can't or won't understand how probabilities and risk / reward figure into the equation. In my village example, the risk of being caught or found out is high - everyone is nosy - but the consequences are miniscule. So it's not much of an issue. 

I was a grad teaching assistant during my PhD years, never a professor tho. Amazing opportunity but academia was not for me. Too much work. A lot less work in industry


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> My father used to call this the "good for me and fvck you" attitude.


I like that term. LOL That must be the cheater motto >


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

aine said:


> it's all called "sin" . No-one is perfect, some less than others.


I agree 100% - some way less than others..way less...even in the realm of infidelity some transgressions are way worse than others..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

john117 said:


> Any time is fine
> 
> Do the numbers...the average bank hoist earns a few thousand dollars at best, high probability of being caught, multi year prison sentence... Then you find that unless we're talking Great Train Robbery type hoists the payoff is not worth the risk. If the average return was six or seven figures the risk / reward situation is different.
> 
> ...


And because of all that, we both know you're intentionally committing a category error and screwing with us.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Since this is a "my ontology is better than your ontology" type discussion kindly point out the alleged category error...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

john117 said:


> Since this is a "my ontology is better than your ontology" type discussion kindly point out the alleged category error...


Morality is an assessment of behaviour.

You're assigning "good" or "bad" to people instead of their behaviour.

Morality-wise, people are not morally good or bad. Their behaviour is.

And I know you know that and I know you're poking fun at the fact that someone can think of themselves as 'good' but do 'bad' things.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The assessment of behavior can be done using purely objective and quantifiable criteria without having to pass judgment on local or religious norms or rules.

That's the whole point. In cases where the objective analysis produces different results, one should consider where the disconnect is and why. Some places have severe penalties on adultery or alcohol consumption. 

Cheating is an in between situation, where it can or cannot have practical consequences. If kids are not involved, vs if they are, for example.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

john117 said:


> The assessment of behavior can be done using purely objective and quantifiable criteria without having to pass judgment on local or religious norms or rules.
> 
> That's the whole point. In cases where the objective analysis produces different results, one should consider where the disconnect is and why. Some places have severe penalties on adultery or alcohol consumption.
> 
> Cheating is an in between situation, where it can or cannot have practical consequences. If kids are not involved, vs if they are, for example.


Are you trying to say that morality and ethics are different?

Or that you're a relativist?

Or that the end justify the means?

There's a punchline here somewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

All of the above.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

john117 said:


> All of the above.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

john117 said:


> The assessment of behavior can be done using purely objective and quantifiable criteria without having to pass judgment on local or religious norms or rules.
> 
> That's the whole point. In cases where the objective analysis produces different results, one should consider where the disconnect is and why. Some places have severe penalties on adultery or alcohol consumption.
> 
> Cheating is an in between situation, where it can or cannot have practical consequences. If kids are not involved, vs if they are, for example.


THe morality of any behavior is totally independent of the risk/reward ratio. "Good" can be an assessment based on morality, risk/reward, or any of numerous other evaluations.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Thor said:


> THe morality of any behavior is totally independent of the risk/reward ratio. "Good" can be an assessment based on morality, risk/reward, or any of numerous other evaluations.


Exactly. I don't need a stone tablet to tell me how to live my life, risk/reward is a bit more palatable and comprehensible...

Ultimately the tablet and I arrive at the same conclusion  most of the time.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

"Morality", me thinks, is sort of like FDR said about the Constitution.

_" The United States Constitution has proved itself the most marvelously elastic compilation of rules of government ever written."_


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

john117 said:


> Exactly. I don't need a stone tablet to tell me how to live my life, risk/reward is a bit more palatable and comprehensible...
> 
> Ultimately the tablet and I arrive at the same conclusion  most of the time.


During my first marriage, analyzing risk vs reward, I came to the conclusion that the reward I received from the affairs far outweighed the risks of STD and divorce. STD risk was minimized by condom use and if exH divorced me, I wouldn't have been heartbroken.

In my current marriage, to someone I actually love and am attracted to, it seems the tablet and I agree when running risk/reward scenarios.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The tablet agrees because:

Let A = (probability of not discovery of the affair * improved value offered by the affair)

Let B = (steady state value of marriage)

For example, 10% chance of discovery times taking the relationship from a Meh value of 6 to a Wow of 9, ie A = 0.1 * 9 = 0.9...

Steady state B = Meh value of 6

Plug into Excel and you'll see that if your odds of discovery are low, say, you're an airline pilot or truck driver, and p(not discovery) > 0.6 or some such that you will NOT be discovered you could find it's worth cheating. Which explains higher infidelity among some professions. Likewise if your marriage is a 1 like me it's a no brainer to at least consider to cheat, assuming the proper partner is identified.

Note that's a trivial model, you can expand with reconciliation or probability of finding a partner after affair discovery... It's basic decision analysis at work. Nothing to it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Regardless of the degree of risk, if you really love someone, fidelity is not a chore. It's easy because it give a sense of joy and satisfaction. When they cheat, you can bet that level of joy and satisfaction in no longer there. What you lost when you discover the cheat has been gone a long time. I call cheating a "result" rather than a symptom.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I'll restate my last post in slightly different words. Morality has zero zip nada zilch to do with the probability of getting caught or the possible rewards of being successful. Bank robbery is not wrong because the risk/reward ratio is unfavorable. Cheating is not right when the risk/reward ratio is low but wrong when the ratio is high.

To base decsions on such calculations to engage in ammoral thought processes. The resultant decision could be either morally good or morally bad.

Those with no moral compass are also known as sociopathic.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

But I'm not a sociopath. Just your friendly neighborhood decision analysis enthusiast 

Why do you think that people with different moral compasses seem to arrive at the same decisions?

Morality is simply a macro in Cosmic Excel by which decisions can be made without calculating risk/reward.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

john117 said:


> But I'm not a sociopath. Just your friendly neighborhood decision analysis enthusiast
> 
> Why do you think that people with different moral compasses seem to arrive at the same decisions?
> 
> Morality is simply a macro in Cosmic Excel by which decisions can be made without calculating risk/reward.



You're confusing one's moral framework with the ultimate decision they may reach. 

Different moral compasses are frequently based on similar underlying values. For example, don't harm others who haven't harmed you. Or, treat others as you would want them to treat you. Those sorts of moralities are built into many doctrines of different types.

But then on top of that, humans are imperfect, selfish, greedy, and impulsive creatures. Decisions are made without absolute adherence to one's moral belief system. People rationalize in order to force fit their emotionally prefered outcome into their moral framework.

The fear of the consequences of getting caught may drive a person to make the moral choice. Society generally has the common moralities baked into the social and legal codes. Whether one fears being a social outcast, professional harm, or going to jail, they make the choice which follows common morality.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

One of the many reasons I have never cheated (married 25 years 1st marriage and 10 years second marriage) isnt whether I would be found out or not, but because I couldn't live with my self if I did that. 
I also couldnt treat another person that way, lying to them and deceiving them and betraying them, especially my own spouse.I also couldn't do that to my children. I have seen far too many families devastated and broken due to cheating.

If you cheat because you think you wont be found out, what does that say about you? That you are willing to break promises made when you married, constantly lie to your spouse, deceive them and betray them in such an awful way. 
Its also says that you have no integrity, honesty or moral values. It says that you are completely selfish, thinking only of your own selfish desires and ignoring your responsibilities of marriage and children.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> But I'm not a sociopath. Just your friendly neighborhood decision analysis enthusiast
> 
> *Why do you think that people with different moral compasses seem to arrive at the same decisions?
> *
> Morality is simply a macro in Cosmic Excel by which decisions can be made without calculating risk/reward.


Not sure I understand that @john117. 

A person who has an affair, is a person who has an affair. 

There is little difference in morality from one to another. 

The problem is when we assign blame. If a wayward has been treated poorly or some needs have not been met, we assume the BS is responsible. 

If the wayward is mentally ill, I suppose we assign no blame. 

If the wayward has been treated fairly, we assume the BS hasn't analyzed themselves well enough.

In the end, the wayward has had an affair. Either affairs are okay or they are not. 

There is morality and lack of it. We choose how we live. Morality does not change. 

Know that this morality I speak of is such a perfect model, no human can live up to it. We can only judge ourselves by it. Wayward and betrayed spouses alike, choose to ignore it or measure their own actions by it. 

It's highly unlikely that anyone who has had an affair, even those who believe they have been mistreated prior, do not see themselves as a less moral person than before the affair, unless they are mentally ill.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Thor said:


> The fear of the consequences of getting caught may drive a person to make the moral choice. Society generally has the common moralities baked into the social and legal codes. Whether one fears being a social outcast, professional harm, or going to jail, they make the choice which follows common morality.


In many cases this is correct, but morality is absolute whereas risk/reward is not, depending on what the relative values for risk and reward are. If the average bank hoist was seven figures instead of four figures you would see more hoists regardless of laws.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> If you cheat because you think you wont be found out, what does that say about you? That you are willing to break promises made when you married, constantly lie to your spouse, deceive them and betray them in such an awful way.
> Its also says that you have no integrity, honesty or moral values. It says that you are completely selfish, thinking only of your own selfish desires and ignoring your responsibilities of marriage and children.


Yet I'm not cheating, which tells you that for my rather complex risk/reward equation I have not yet identified anyone worth cheating with. My so-called moral system has already granted me a free pass or three based on the state of my so-called marriage, and my kids would be happy to see me cheat . 

If I found anyone cheat-worthy in my social circles (or Tinder or Craigslist or my interns ) you better believe I would be looking into it more closely.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> It's highly unlikely that anyone who has had an affair, even those who believe they have been mistreated prior, do not see themselves as a less moral person than before the affair, unless they are mentally ill.


Au contraire, it was not my decision to destroy the marriage by not following my vows, so.... 

Null and void rings quite a bell in my ears.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> Au contraire, it was not my decision to destroy the marriage by not following my vows, so....
> 
> Null and void rings quite a bell in my ears.


I hear you. I just do not see it as official until it has been determined so by the authorities who married the couple. Otherwise, we could just determine on our own that we are married without someone officiating with prior approval. 

Do you see the difference?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Common Law Marriage is that... 

There are laws about constructive abandonment in the books in most states, but not all.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> Common Law Marriage is that...
> 
> There are laws about constructive abandonment in the books in most states, but not all.


They concern the ability to divorce due to lack of sex, not the approval of infidelity. In your case and mine, that law would not be relevant. 

What do you mean by different moral compasses? How can two WS' have different moral compasses?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

WS#1, one of my best friends. Boy scout group leader, community pillar, the works. Stuck in a marriage closely resembling CopperTop's he gets into a long term affair and not one person that knows this has come out against him. Knowing his wife is truly unable/unwilling to take care of herself he stays married.

WS#2: former neighbor, married to a stunning MILF cheats on her with the Pillsbury dough nanny. Marriage obliterated.

#1 clearly followed my risk / reward model, #2 did not.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

In my case, this was very true. The disease was abandonment. Once I arranged to not be gone for forever at a time, things got better.


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