# whatcha think??



## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

OK I have married for 12 years but been out of the house now a little over a month. She filed the week I left (had the appt set up, I didnt know) we talk like best friends and she always wants to hear my voice on the phone. She keeps saying that she wants to do things as a family for holidays and stuff. I think she sees my face as the old me, angry, stubborn and grumpy. I have buried that guy and turning a new leaf with alot of help from outside resources to guide me in this life changing path. Now we had a trip planned since Dec to go to Disney in Nov for my Daughters bday. She told me that she would do anything in the world not to miss the trip because I wasnt going. She even told me that it was already paid for. Yesterday she calls and says she doesnt know how to break the news to her that she cant go. All this time she has been angry and not thinking straight. Do you think she is finally coming to light in the issues? I am keeping peace on my side and vowed to myself to never argue (unproductively) with her again. What can I do (besides continue giving her space) to help get the ball rolling on us again? Should I ask her out to eat and not talk about the relationship? I know that she is the one that needs to come around to reasoning but we have our first appearance at the end of the month. I need help!!


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

How much time is it anticipated to take for the divorce? Knowing this gives you some time to work. When I saw my lawyer, he reinforced many times that he often works with couples divorcing that, after going through the reality of divorce, they come back together. His experience has shown that a majority of the times, it works, as it forced communication that they did not have before.

Its good you have worked on yourself. Realizing your contribution (its not all you either, you know) and how to help is a big step. You will need to show her those changes so that she starts to feel like maybe this can work. 

Have you tried to open up discussions with her? Maybe starting with them relating to how your behavior will be during proceedings, then leading to how you both can work together in this, leading to the issues between you both. If she really wants to work on things (and I mean WORK. this is a tough battle for both of you! Lots of threads here to support and encourage, use em!) this will be a clue to her that it would be right. Do you know that she WANTS to work on things?

Ask lots of questions here. We are here to help. I hope things can work out for you. You DONT want to be where I am at!


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

THANKS for the input, I definitely need to keep the peace and show her how hard I am working. She NEVER brings up the fact of talking about it, however her attitude has changed alot too. I am not sure since we go to court at the end of the month for temp. orders. I have a different lawyer than her and the one she has is only out for money for himself. I do not want to try and push anything on her yet. We have a school orientation next Thursday and my sister offered to watch the kids. I will be arriving a few minutes late so we will be in different cars. However I want to see if she will go for a drink after but I got to play it smooth till then. Also a concert we were suppose to go to together but I think that it wont happen might change back in my favor. I have to look at the bright side of everything for now but I am being very cautious on getting hurt again. My gut feeling is she might be feeling me out, I am not sure just a feeling. 

I have been reading alot of posts, including yours and I hope you find true happiness again, you sound like a great guy and learned alot from your situation.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

If she is not there yet, you need to think subtle things that show a change in you. Things that make her feel special and needed in the relationship. DON'T make a big issue out of doing them. Just do them and leave it! If she is thinking about the relationship and about you, she will notice them and notice what you are doing. If she normally does some cleanup around the house, YOU do it, or help with it at least. YOU pick up the kids rooms some nights of the week or take care of their baths. Offer to take the kids out so she can have some quiet time or shopping time or something. If you can, take a half day of vacation and do that. Oh, not materialistic things. Those don't matter now. It feelings and emotions here. There will probably be some retaliation and negative comments and such, but don't let that discourage you! It did me. I kept backing off then restarting again in another day or two. As I said, this is HARD.

Think of it as a new beginning, not a change. If you think of it as a change, it may be easier to revert back to your old ways. A new beginning is like starting over, with the old ways GONE.

I'd just be cautious with the drink or dinner thing. I wouldn't plan too much, but go with the flow and if it feels right, maybe try it. If it does not, don't go there yet. She may not be ready yet and it would feel too much like a date or someting. This may push you further backwards.

Thanks for the comments. As beat up as we get, its nice to hear the nice stuff now and again. Yes, I have learned alot, and you will too. Hopefully its not too late for you and your family. Its great you are stepping up to your side of the responsibility encouraging her to work on hers. It is truely a two sided thing. You two are MARRIED. Thats a joining of two individuals into one. That takes a lot of effort to make it work, on both of your parts. Too bad you got to where you are, but you are not giving up yet. You never know what can happen. If you are a spiritual person, spend some time in prayer. Seek out friends and advice here, from BOTH SIDES of the issues, and draw your OWN conclusions. Post here your thoughts or just complain. It helps.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Can you reexplain this Disney thing? I'm confused about why she isn't going and how this relates to thinking straight.

If you can get her to go out with you and not talk about the relationship, that'd be wonderful. They say that having no-pressure fun times together helps rebuild. OTOH, what will you do if *she* brings something up? How will you tell her that you wonder if she'd be willing to talk another time (say, tomorrow) about these things and just relax and have some fun right now?

Anyway, no1 has some wonderful ideas. If there is anything she's always said to you that you've ignored, now is the time to remember and act on it. I can list dozens of things my ex- ignored that I begged and pleaded for. If I get bent out of shape about something a couple of times with my (new) husband, he's Johnny on the Spot dealing with them if it is at all reasonable for him to do so. (You know, like cleaning up after himself or reminding the kids to be considerate of others like their mom, who doesn't enjoy the dirt from their shoes on the carpet, etc.) Other stuff that's out of the ordinary, talk about BONUS! 

I think everyone wants to be known and understood. How many time did I tell my ex- that I didn't like cut flowers because they were such a waste? It wasn't until I filed that he bought me an actual plant. And then it was too late. 

Anyway, that's in the past. I have a man who pays attention to me now. He learned how to do this because of a failed marriage, too. Sad but true.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks for bringing the Disney trip up, dobo. I was confused on that too. Disney with kids is a HIGH STRESS trip. If things are any kind of a mess, it may not be the best time to do this trip.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

First I am not currently living in the house and when I did I always did my share of the cooking cleaning and kids stuff. I wish I was back there doing the same again. The confusion on Disney was she was hell-bent on going because I told her that if I moved I wouldnt be able to afford going with her and offered to pay for the plane tickets that she charged. They were non refundable. She said no matter what she is taking the kids there, well fast forward to yesterday when she told me that she realized she couldnt go either and didnt know how to break it to my daughter. When wife told her she only said "it is ok mom, I didnt feel like going because dad isnt going" I was floored when she told me. Ecstatic but shocked. Now this is a woman that is so organized that I was shocked that she didnt see this coming. 

I do help at the house, I only live 2 blocks from there if she needs things fixed. I want to invite her out and talk about things other than the relationship, joke, laugh and have a fun time. She is showing a different side to herself too but no sign of stopping the divorce yet. I am changing without telling her everything and she is telling others that she notices, but also says that it is good for my next relationship. I guess the confusion is she still wants the family to do things together all the time but not be married and we live separate, I know there is some out there that do this now but it is not what I want. 

Sorry for the confusion as we are all going through this not thinking as straight as we should. I do believe this as a new beginning, I have buried the old me and a new guy is blooming. I was grumpy and stubborn but now look at things from anew set of eyes. I did get angry about not being heard but now do the listening before reacting. Then make a valid point and leave it there if do not see eye to eye. Again thanks for the replys.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

You are doing great! Right now there is nothing more that you can do, I think. Keep showing her the positive stuff that you have shown here. Yes, its frustrating, and slow, and confusing. There is no formula here, you know that. Let that new person bloom. I dont know how long you have had issues, or at least she has had issues, but I imagine they have been brewing a long time. Someone doesn't throw away 12 years of marriage in a month. It will take a while for her to build up the trust and the caring and the love again. Thats one thing I realized, I could not show my stbx that I have changed overnight. especially with another person in the picture. She still does not believe it is in me, but our relationship is so changed and distorted with the OM and a divorce, it really doesn't matter anymore. The only way she would see it is when a new person is in my life.

Keep doing what you are doing and showing her the changes. It sounds like she is noticing the new you, but she is just too hurt to accept it. Remember, take your frustrations out here, not on her. 

good luck


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

thanx man, I am not sure if it will ever be saved but I told her this weekend I have always loved her and still do. It seems that every moment she gets a chance to call me she does. She called me while I was in church yesterday!! Good, bad or otherwise I need to work on me and it is not easy to move on without her or them for that matter, I miss being home bathing and tucking my kids in at night. Then hanging out with her and just talking and watching TV. Peaceful and nice, now I sit home alone and dwell, but I am filling my days with stuff to keep busy. Again thanx for the inspiring words and I am now believing that she calls me to mostly get me to argue, I NEVER let it get to that point and yesterday I had to hang up on her, wow she blew a gasket for that. Today she calls me at work because the shoes I bought my son for school are the same feet. He is 4 and has been wearing them for a week. he puts them on but she has to tie them and why call me at work for this? It is all day long for things that can wait. I am getting scared for her. She is the one that wants the divorce and told me that if I didnt move she was leaving with the kids. Talk about confused signals.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

tryintoo: It is so commong to get mixed messages from them. Too common. Many times they say one thing but contrary to their words. This leaves you in a bind. What do do and how to behave? Are you to be at their beck and call and flow with whatever emotional mood they are in???

I think it's funny that your 4 year old has shoes on the same feet!!!That is a good story. 

Keep doing the work on yourself and making yourself a better person. Be happy and try not to do too much relationship talk. Appear to be confident and have a busy life without her. These are all attractive traits.

This will take some time and your patience. Good luck to you.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks Corpus, I am working on me so hard. I havent brought up anything about the relationship in a month. She sees the changes and is either envious or jealous, wait till we go to court for our first hearing at the end of the month. I am trying to only talk to her on a business level from now till then. She constantly calls my office or cell while I am at work and if not here then she calls my sister to see if she heard from me that day. I try to be cordial and respectful to what she wants, and YES I want to do a lil butt kissing to get back in with her. I now realize we have a lot of work ahead (months, or a year) to come to that point. I don't think she knows how hard it is going to be without me there in ALL areas. Especially when she is even more lonely, I pray that some man doesnt come in and use her then leave.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

Found out yesterday that she freaked on the lady in my gym for charging her card for another month. I have been telling her that she needs to go there to cancel, they wont let me do it. Also called me to tell me that my daughter (8yo) has told her again that she wantsto live with me. I told her tha we made a decision and we need to stick to it. Wife then blows up and says then you come live here with them and I will leave. Granted she works from home too. I hope that it is out of frustration and not resentment for getting me out. I do not want to go back on sympathy. This is the 3rd time she said this. She constantly calls me for things that can wait, however she is the one thattells me to only deal with the kid issues. I am fine with that if that is what she wants. Is it she likes to hear my voice and not see my face? I am backing off big time and letting her deal with the things she has made for herself. She made the visitation schedule and I tried to ask to tweak it for more time with kids, she refused but calls constantly with stuff tht she is suppose to handle. I am afraid she is going to lose it and have a panic attack or anxiety. Again she has the house and everything in it, the good car and I give her money everyweek to help. She is not the same person week to week and now some friends of hers are backing away, i feel helpless because there is nothing more that I want than to be there for her and the kids.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

She's keeping communication open because she's not sure what she wants. She's hoping (probably unconcsiously) that you'll do something to make her decision firmer. Don't rise to the bait. She's got to be responsible for her own decision and not put it on you.

Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing great.

That your daughter wants to live with you speaks volumes.

I would however ask her if she wouldn't call you during business hours to discuss things that can be handled after 5 PM. It isn't that you don't want to talk to her or you don't care, it is just that as she knows, it is very emotional talking right now and it is hard to shift back and forth from business to personal when things are so emotionally charged. Tell her you're sure she experiences the same thing because this is hard on her, too.

See what she says.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree with dobo. She's unsure and is in both worlds. She has the comfort of "home" all the while wanting to escape the marriage.

Don't worry about her anxiety or panic attacks. Let her feel the pain. It's her choice right? You aren't provoking these attacks. This is how it feels to be separated and divorced. You are alone and on your own. It can be uncomfortable.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

thanks for the reassurance. I went to a support group for the first time last night and thanked them all for their knowledge and input. I was the youngest by 10 or more years but they were all facinated by my story. Unfortunatley she called there 3 times, I had it on vibrate on another table and they thought it was funny to watch my phone dance on the table. 1 guy even said lets get a bet going to see when it will dance again. I also mentioned to them that she should be the one sitting there listening to the stories of how it hurts to be dumped on, not me. In reality my heart goes out to her knowing in her mind that she is now telling people that I am an absentee father, far from the truth, I am fighting for MORE time with them, not less. Her best friend (I dont get along with) told her straight out that I am 1 of the best dads she has ever seen not only to my own kids but all kids that came over to play and because I was voluteering on Saturday night and didnt call ( I told my Daughter/son I wasnt going to call) she rips me to everyone about it. I don't feel bad for what I did but I feel bad for how she is living with thinking in her own mind she is right.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Corpus is right -- you are not responsible for her anxiety, etc.

Good on you for seeking out help, too.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Geez, Tryintoo, so much of what you write is echoed in my situation. My W has been living in her fantasy world of how wonderful life would be when she is away from me. Now things are getting shaken with things like renegotiating debt from the OM so that he can move forward (they have a house they could not afford with a home improvement loan making it even worse, plus other debt). Dealing with two spouses and their schedules. My work travel in an upcoming job reassignment. rejection from some church activities. Scheudling of divorce related events and what that brings with two kids and an unsure work schedule on my part. She can't find a job, has not had any call backs and limited applications (money is already tight). Where to have everyone live in this situation. My calling this an affair.

Pretty much EVERYTHING gets on her nerves. Kids and their schedule, the evening activities, groceries, shopping, cooking, house maintenance, laundry. No matter what I do, it was the wrong item. Are you running into that? case in point - Monday I did two loads of laundry and cooked dinner for the family. Originally I said I would get the groceries after work. she came home and no, I was supposed to get them during the day. Except there was no food prepped for her to deal with and 3 full laundry baskets. Imagine the verbal abuse if that was to slide!

Some days you just can't win. You are lucky... You are not living in the same house. At least you get some releif.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

So true I do live outside the house. I called yesterday for financial records for court, WELL WHAT DO YOU NEED, I ALREADY GAVE THEM EVERYTHING!! I need them for my side. I am going to talk to my lawyer and arrange a pickup of the rest of my stuff. I also mentioned that I was rushing out the door the other day and didnt say HI to her friend and felt guilty, said I was sorry if she was offended. I tried to make my point and she kept twisting saying "everyone knows how much of a jerk you are" no big deal. All I told her is just take it as it is an apology if not then no big deal. she then stated oh perfect steve is gone the real steve is back, that took what 6 weeks? it beat me up for a bit but I am staying the course. Today I get the kids for 3 hours, got to get financial papers and leave. the end of the month cant come fast enough now.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

I think the distance and separation is the only thing that can fix that. Whether that will fix the issues you have in your situation, I don't know. It has to be played out and she has to get passed the issues she has in seeing who you are, not who you were. Maybe when that happens, things can come back together.

I had another run in today.. we were looking for child care and what it costs, as W is looking for a job and we will need someithgn for the little ones. I mistakenly referred to the cost $XXX per day, when I should have said it was $XXX per week for care the whole day. In my mind I was saying the right thing, but that blew up in my face.



> the end of the month cant come fast enough now.


I hear ya. I am waiting for my current assignment to release me so I can do the traveling my next assignment will need me to do. I hate to be away from the kids, but the screwey-ness of what is happening between us is driving me nuts.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

Well this weekend was eventful to say the least. Saturday she tells me that her therapist didnt remember anything they talked about 3 weeks ago. She then told me she was looking for another on Monday. Sunday we had a relationship talk, well it wasnt really a talk but all she did was scream at me of how I ruined her life, the marriage and she hates being seen in public without a ring on. This divorce is her idea, NOT MINE!! I ended up playing outside with my son (4yo) and had a blast ending up finishing by laying on the grass with him and bonding for a bit. She comes out and accuses me of being such a fake (while cussing) with my kids and trying to impress her with how much I am doing with them. There is nothing fake about how I play with them, I love them both and they know it fully. It irritates her to know that I have a connection that she cant seem to have. I am a changing man everyday, I have more compassion and love for life now all around. its days like today that I feel down and out, we were suppose to go to a concert Saturday, she is bringing a "friend" instead. Man or woman I am hurt that I wont go. On the positive I have the kids and will make fully sure that we have fun, whether I am FAKING it or not. I cant believe that her friends are agreeing with her on this. Then again her friends are so shallow that they will agree that dogfood is the new steak if she says so.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ignore her poor attitude and remarks! It's all about her. 

Show her your change in behavior. She may think it's fake. That's her problem not yours. Go on with your life. It's her choice.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

well things got heated bad now. she didnt know I had a lawyer, fighting for joint phys/legal and want visitation changed. I am still willing to give money to the house. She is bull**** that I am fighting for what I feel is right and not bending. We both have no money to fight but I am going to continue. I see my lawyer in 45 minutes, hope she has good news. I am fighting a bad case of legal and emtional divorce and separation anxiety from thehouse, kids amd wife. My heart still loves her but I need to count on my faith in god that things will be ok more than ever right now.


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## tryintoo (Jul 29, 2009)

Went to the lawyers yesterday and she told me she had a conversation with hers. Well come to find out that marriage counseling was brought up by her lawyer to mine, saying that too bad we dont get help first before this is ruined. She then told him that we are doing iindividual but not marriage and he was shocked. He is shocked that how fast she is pushing this through but is going to continue for her. What are the chances of him asking her to consider help for us? She is furious that I am spending money that I we dont have on a lawyer to fight for what I feel is fair. She thinks that I am just going to agree on terms I dont feel are right. She needs a stable therapist to work through her personal issues FIRST!! If at all we need a mediator because she is so angry at me but I truely feel that this isnt what she wants. She tells me that she always felt alone.


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