# Are thoughts really just thoughts?



## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Let me start off with the fact my husband and I are absolutely crazy about each other. We are very open and honest with our feelings and thoughts, we work together on everything and we had yet to hit a bump we couldn't get over almost instantly till now. We just cant see eye to eye on this particular subject. Let me start off in an order...

One day my husband told me
"Even though I have occasional split-second thoughts of having sex with other women, I would never and could never have sex with anyone else since I found you because our sex life is so active and amazing and you have the perfect body that I am the most attracted to." (I personally have a very high sex drive, higher than his so he loves it)

So that conversation kind of burst that bubble of me being the only one in his "eyes" and I thought so highly and unrealistically of this because he literally, not using word to make sentence sound good, he literally compliments me every day. My shape. His favorite parts of me. How my mind makes me even more sexy. ETC. Not to lie though, it hit me pretty hard mentally. After a day of trying to process how he can be so into me and still have sex with other women (in his head) I decided to DROP it. He was honest. I just try to walk ahead of him when in public or I try to ignore the women around me and ignore his head turns because my mind instantly wants to go into "how is he having sex with this one in his head?" 

He has said this is a natural thing he has done since he was attracted to females. He pictures the ones he is into naked. Occasionally thinks of sexual things and he says it happens in seconds and goes away in seconds. He said sometimes he doesn't realize he is doing it but he can catch himself at times. He says he does not actively seek out women to fantasize about them, its more of a passing thought if they catch his eye. So I do, I try to deal with it. He has never lied to me, that I know of so I have no reason to not trust him.

Here is where I get uncomfortable.

He has looked, many times from moments he happens to be in my line of sight, checking out underage girls. Not like gawking, but glancing, and then a little longer look when doing a double take. These girls are maybe 13-17. 

I confronted him about this after this weekend I saw him do it twice. He swears he doesn't even remember doing it. He said he doesn't usually monitor age when he spots someone he is attracted too. This includes the sexual thoughts that last a "split-second". He said if he is checking out a girl that happens to be underage its because he is attracted to the body type, which is like mine, and its not like he is going to I.D every girl. I am very thin and small. Some people mistake me for 16-18 years old still. I am 31. I told him he should know, morally, that anyone that looks my size has the possibility to be underage. There is a difference in my shape and a teens shape. I do have mild curves and the muscle build is different in a child vs a women. 

I told him he should have boundaries if he is going to allow sexual thoughts of random women in his head. He said they are just thoughts and it rarely happens and he forgets before he can retain anything about it. I said "how do you know you do it then?" He says its because he has done it so long. the best way I can describe it is like drinking water. He doesn't always pay attention to when he is getting a glass of water just like he doesn't always notice he is thinking in this manner. So after one of few fights over this, I just was in shock, we still went to bed in not only disagreement, but feeling ashamed and confused as to where to go from here.

He doesn't see what he does as wrong. I told him morally he should know better. Just because they are thoughts that no one can see, doesn't mean he should be thinking of them and not redirecting those thoughts. He asked if he should feel ashamed because he loves my body so much. I said "I guess if it doesn't deter you away from younger girls, yes than. If you put my body in the category of a teenage girl, I should feel ashamed of my own body when you want me." These are my thoughts. He said he would never ever act on it. I am a mother of a girl who will one day reach puberty and who will have friends over. He seriously didn't grasp why this made me feel sick.

He did feel guilty. 
He did feel ashamed.
He does not like how I feel about it.
He has agreed to get counseling to see if its something that he can change.
He and I don't know what we would do without one another.
We are each others best friend.
We are compatible in every way a couple can be.
I don't want to feel disgusted with this.
I cant get over the fact that he wont set boundaries to where his eyes and thoughts wonder too. 
Fine look at other women, even fantasize if you "have too" but keep yourself in check man.

I want to move past this and have it not effect our sex life. 
I need help coping and not wanting to be so angry.
I am seeing my therapist this week.
Am I ok to feel betrayed and confused over thoughts?
Is this a normal reaction or am I being overactive? 

Thank you.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It's opening a can of worms when you try to get inside someone's head like that. People are sexual creatures and be attracted to and turned on by others is natural. I understand the stigma related to post-pubescent, but underage kids. But that is more of a civilization's standard rather than an attraction one. This is a taboo subject to say the least, but mostly in today's society. I don't think anyone condones sex with someone underage, but to try to vilify him for what you think is in his head is too much. Maybe he's an idiot for sharing though...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow, I would feel creeped out by that, too.

Please let us know what your therapist advises.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

This is one of those areas that men an women are totally different. I am like your husband, when I am out, I notice what I consider to be attractive women all the time. In a brief second, I consider if I would like to have sex with them or not, and then it is gone. I know that I will never meet these women or have a physical relationship with them, but the thought still pops into my head. There is no comparison going on either, it's like a leaf in the wind. One moment it is there, the next is lost in the myriad of other leaves blowing in the breeze. 

My wife is similar to you, she will analyze what I tell her I am thinking and rake me over the coals for what's in my head. Just because I have a thought does not mean that I will take action, it's just a thought. I find it hard to believe that my wife doesn't have thoughts all the time as well. Whether it be sex or should I change my shoes? I have learned to sanitize what I say sometimes to avoid a potential negative response. It's not that I'm not honest with her, but I will filter what I say due to many bad experiences.

You can usually judge a man by his actions, what have your husbands been telling you? My opinion is that you are unfairly crucifying your husband for potentially having an impure thought. Just because a thought of having sex pops into our head has no bearing on our love or dedication to our marriage. Don't let this one incident detract from what otherwise sounds like a great relationship.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm fairly open minded and have come to terms with the idea that many men like youth. However, when it comes to underage girls that is something completely different, even if he doesn't act upon it, its very disturbing. There may be a chance that he is not aware of how old those girls are (some young girls can look very sophisticated at a quick glance). 

I don't think you are over-reacting - I would feel the same.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Fine look at other women, even fantasize if you "have too" but keep yourself in check man.


He *is *keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?

Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.




Cognitivedissonance said:


> Am I ok to feel betrayed and confused over thoughts?
> Is this a normal reaction or am I being overactive?


Yes, I think you are over-reacting. This is normal male behavior. UNLESS, you have evidence that he knowingly fantasizes about underage girls (e.g. through his porn habits). Also, is there something in your history that makes you automatically sensitive and assuming toward child sexual abuse?

You need to stop shaming him unless and until you are sure there is something to be ashamed of.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

peacem said:


> I'm fairly open minded and have come to terms with the idea that many men like youth. However, when it comes to underage girls that is something completely different, even if he doesn't act upon it, its very disturbing. There may be a chance that he is not aware of how old those girls are (some young girls can look very sophisticated at a quick glance).
> 
> I don't think you are over-reacting - I would feel the same.


Aren't you undermining your point that the young girls can look sophisticated? I mean, then he may think they are older. How can you blame him for that?

Look, it works both ways for me. There are even some attractive males that play sports and I get a quick glance from a woman or a taboo oooo as a joke. I think the more we get caught up in "non-actions" the more we cause issues in our lives. People become afraid of just being, then it pents up and explodes in an affair or worse.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> He *is *keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?
> 
> Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.
> 
> ...


How is she "shaming" him?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Herschel said:


> Aren't you undermining your point that the young girls can look sophisticated? I mean, then he may think they are older. How can you blame him for that?


Not undermining but mitigating - I think we agree


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

jld said:


> How is she "shaming" him?


By assigning psychopathy (would be child molester) to his normal behavior.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> By assigning psychopathy (would be child molester) to his normal behavior.


They are underage, correct?

And even if she does see it that way, he is free to disagree. He has agency.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think that many people don't seem to realise that we can control what we look at and what we allow ourselves to think about. 
I wouldn't let myself think about sex with another man. If I saw a good looking guy, I would deliberately look away and not look a second time. Its a habit that you can get into. 

Have you heard of bouncing the eyes? Its when we notice someone who maybe isn't wearing a lot or who we find attractive, and we immediately bounce our eyes away. Its something that can become automatic if we practise it regularly. My husband does it. Also if he sees a scantily clad lady on tv for example, he will close his eyes. It something he has done all of his adult life.

I honestly don't think he needs any sortof counseling, he just needs to be more aware of what he does and begin to control it and not let his mind or eyes wander.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

I would much rather him share and I know than it be a secret I find out years later. He did admit to looking at underage. I am telling you what we spoke of that goes on in his head. I am not thinking this is what he is doing. He told me this is how it plays out in his head. I am not making my on version of what he thinks.. other than my part about w I FEEL about my body type now. That's my opinion though.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I would much rather him share and I know than it be a secret I find out years later. He did admit to looking at underage. I am telling you what we spoke of that goes on in his head. I am not thinking this is what he is doing. He told me this is how it plays out in his head. I am not making my on version of what he thinks.. other than my part about w I FEEL about my body type now. That's my opinion though.


This is a really good book on how men can control their thoughts and what they look at. Its basically a Christian book but the same things apply to all men. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Ev...=1494976014&sr=8-1&keywords=every+mans+battle


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Are this girls prepubescent?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Let me start off with the fact *my husband and I are absolutely crazy about each other. *We are very open and honest with our feelings and thoughts, we work together on everything and we had yet to hit a bump we couldn't get over almost instantly till now. We just cant see eye to eye on this particular subject. Let me start off in an order...
> 
> One day my husband told me
> "Even though I have occasional split-second thoughts of having sex with other women, I would never and could never have sex with anyone else since I found you because our sex life is so active and amazing and you have the perfect body that I am the most attracted to." (I personally have a very high sex drive, higher than his so he loves it)
> ...


Where to start? This is a little more "tough love" than I prefer, but you really need to take a couple steps back and see what you have posted.

When you ask your husband a question, do you want him to answer you honestly? If you do then you need to make sure the feedback you give him doesn't shut down his honest responses. Your actions will condition his actions!

Do you want your husband to be able to tell you his deepest darkest sexual thoughts? If you do, then you need to be "non-judgemental when it comes to sex."

Would you rather build a wall between the two of you so he feels he can't tell you his fantasies, fetishes, or sexual dreams? Some women drive their men to tell such things to prostitutes. Remember your actions are conditioning him.

Google a costume company on the internet. Do a search of sexy costumes. Do you find lots and lots of "sexy school girl" costumes? It must be an absolutely perverted desire as they are "school girls" and under age. And yet there seem to be lots of those costumes. Maybe it is a common fantasy, the grown men don't act upon. 

Hey when I first met my wife of 46 years she was wearing a Catholic girls school outfit, White shirt, blazer, plaid wool dress, white sock, saddle shoes, the whole thing. Of course she I and were about the same age then 17-18. If she put on a similar outfit tonight, it would get a rise out of me and I would know that she (the mother of my children and my wife) was of an age where legal consent was present. That would be called roll playing. It is not considered perverted among two adults. Weird maybe, but nothing morally wrong.

Now to elaborate on this a bit more. You said that you are sometimes mistaken for a 16 to 18 year old at the age of 31! Either (1) you are dressing inappropriately or (2) your choice of clothing has conditioned your husband to have sexual feelings for women who dress young. If it is the later then you are as responsible for his "horrifying glances" as he is. 

A little more elaboration. You "confronted him about his glancing at other women!" Do you want to become his *mother* who is going to educate and civilize him or do you want to be his wife? You are disgusted with him and it is impacting how you feel about him? Again, stop being judgemental, it is not your job. As a wife you should be loving, supportive, someone he can confide his deepest and darkest secrets to. 

OK you shamed him into seeing a marriage counselor, where the two of you can discuss this with a third party. You are so upset you are going to see your own individual counselor. 

I think that the later is a great idea. Don't be surprised if both counselors tell you back off and mind your own business. In fact, based on your own comments regarding be mistaken for a 16 to 18 year old, you individual counselor may tell you this has a lot more to do with your self-image as a young woman growing old, than it does about your "pervey" husband.

If he ever goes to parks and looks at little girls on jungle bars hoping to see their panties or if he starts to regularly go to Junior High School or High School girls athletic events, then you can worry and have something to be concerned about. But a quick glance or two, is not yet time to have him register as a sex predator. 

No you are not OK to feel betrayed in my opinion.

I am glad you and your H are going to marriage counseling. I also think that the individual counselor you are going to go to will help you a lot in dealing with this.

I wish you and your H luck in resolving is problem.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Yes, thoughts can be just thoughts. Your hubs trusted you enough to tell you his thoughts...I'm sure that he never anticipated your reaction to his revelations. That's because he loves you and digs you and trusts you. I'm sure he's back pedaling like crazy to try to placate you right now. And he will never open his mouth again.

My gf is very much like your hubs. She really adores me, is totally into me, is a fantastic lover. She is very open about her past and her thoughts. At first, I went a tiny bit off the deep end at some of her revelations, but frankly, she is completely innocent in her motives, as was your hubs. 

Please don't shame him. People catch the eye, some catch my eye. Some are way younger than I am. Some are way older than I am. I don't entertain them as legit love interests, it really is a fleeting image/thought. I'm a lesbian with an insanely high sex drive, so I am probably different from a lot of women...but, I feel for the guys. He told you about it FFS, so he wasn't anticipating that you would be angry with him. 

He truly loves you, and I know he never imagined that what he revealed to you would upset you.

Please forgive him.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

If you want someone to be honest with you, you can't shame them when they tell you their innermost feelings.

I would think that was obvious, but apparently it isn't.

In other words, you are way over the line here. He hasn't done anything wrong.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I agree over reaction for sure.

He will never tell you his inner most thoughts again.

So no need to bash him over the head. Because now he is afriad to tell you anything.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Well, he probably isn't afraid to share with her, but he knows it's a stupid thing to do.

And now he knows she thinks he should view the Original Poster as not being an acceptable sexual object. She can be mistaken for someone under the age of 18. Therefore he should not view her as a sex object. He should abandon his sexual interest in the Original Poster, if he follows her paradigm. After all, he must stop considering any woman who could potentially be under the age of 18 to be a sexual creature.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> No you are not OK to feel betrayed in my opinion.


This post and quite a few others on this thread are very hypocritical. 

Young - are you saying that you would have no problem and feel no shame to tell your wife that you occasionally oogle and imagine having sex with teenaged girls, some of them underaged? And to further tell her that even if this bugs her, she has no right to be upset about it?

No? I didn't think so.

Yet you are telling this OP she has no right to feel betrayed, even though you know dang well your wife would never get over such a thing if you told her about it.

So are you saying that NOT telling her means it is ok, and what she doesn't know doesn't hurt her?

I feel that every man on this thread who feels this type of thing is just normal and usual should tell their wife exactly what they've written here, and also tell her that you yourself have your head full of underaged girls at times.

No? Not willing to tell your wife that, knowing she will feel hurt and disgusted, but you are willing to tell this OP she has no right to be?

I know that William has said he is open with his wife about what goes on in his mind. For that, he has my respect. And Married but Happy is in an open marriage, so things with them are probably more out in the open.

But for the other guys....you sure are doing your best to shame this OP for her valid feelings of hurt and betrayal, feelings which you all know your wives would also exhibit if you were truthful with your wives. You don't want to be this honest with your own wives because you know YOU would feel shame.

But if this is totally natural and normal, why would you feel shame? Why not just come right out with it and then if your wife protests, just tell her all the things you've said here and shame her into silence, as you are doing here.

And by the way Young at Heart...the OP stated she looks like a teen because she is tiny, short and small. Nice job of then trying to project that she must be dressing sl*tty or something and trying to shame her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I also wonder how many of you who have daughters aged 13 - 17 are ok with knowing that "every guy" in the world, aged 13 - 80 is banging his monkey in the shower with images of her dancing naked through his head? And what if those guys just happen to glance a little too long at your daughter. Are you just going to chuckle and give him the thumbs up because what he's thinking is perfectly natural and normal, and meanwhile you are imagining HIS 13 y/o daughter naked?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And further, for those who have daughters, did you talk to them as they came into puberty and tell them the truth you state here? "Oh honey don't worry about grown men looking at you with lust. It is harmless. All men do this. They are just going to use your image later to jack off to, or imagine you while they have sex with their wives. Me? Well of course I wouldn't look at you that way, that would be wrong. But I'm a man so I do look at all of your cute little friends that way. Hey when's the next slumber party?"


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I also wonder how many of you who have daughters aged 13 - 17 are ok with knowing that "every guy" in the world, aged 13 - 80 is banging his monkey in the shower with images of her dancing naked through his head? And what if those guys just happen to glance a little too long at your daughter. Are you just going to chuckle and give him the thumbs up because what he's thinking is perfectly natural and normal, and meanwhile you are imagining HIS 13 y/o daughter naked?


So your position is that denying this is somehow a better approach?

Or are you saying that it's not true?

Genuinely puzzled here, not trying to pull your chain...


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

In her original post *she gave no indication that her husband was aware of the age* of any of the females he was looking at.

I asked some questions about the context where the "looking" took place however the OP has not answered my questions.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> And further, for those who have daughters, did you talk to them as they came into puberty and tell them the truth you state here? "Oh honey don't worry about grown men looking at you with lust. It is harmless. All men do this. They are just going to use your image later to jack off to, or imagine you while they have sex with their wives. Me? Well of course I wouldn't look at you that way, that would be wrong. But I'm a man so I do look at all of your cute little friends that way. Hey when's the next slumber party?"


Ok this post and the one just before is a little ridiculous in my opinion. I remember reading that most men, in a split second, evaluate females for whether or not they would have sex with them. 

It doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go an jack off thinking about them.

How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

manwithnoname said:


> How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.


I'll go out on a limb and guess that she has not done this while thinking of an underage boy, no.

I think (almost) all of us have had thoughts about other people from time to time. It's perfectly normal, IMO. Even those who do not believe it's okay, such as diana7, have to consciously look away, or otherwise train themselves not to look.

The brain says "look, attractive person!" before it determines other factors, such as age, I think. If I glance at a woman and I quickly determine she's under the age of 30, my brain says "nope". I'm at the age where anything under 30 is immature! But that's just me. I've always liked women around my age, anyway. But I also completely understand the appeal of younger men or women to some folks - just not _too_ young.

Just because we have a spouse or a partner does not mean that we no longer find other people attractive. It's up to the individual as to whether that's a betrayal or not, but I don't believe most do. I don't.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

C3156 said:


> This is one of those areas that men an women are totally different. I am like your husband, when I am out, I notice what I consider to be attractive women all the time. In a brief second, I consider if I would like to have sex with them or not, and then it is gone. I know that I will never meet these women or have a physical relationship with them, but the thought still pops into my head. There is no comparison going on either, it's like a leaf in the wind. One moment it is there, the next is lost in the myriad of other leaves blowing in the breeze.
> 
> My wife is similar to you, she will analyze what I tell her I am thinking and rake me over the coals for what's in my head. Just because I have a thought does not mean that I will take action, it's just a thought. I find it hard to believe that my wife doesn't have thoughts all the time as well. Whether it be sex or should I change my shoes? I have learned to sanitize what I say sometimes to avoid a potential negative response. It's not that I'm not honest with her, but I will filter what I say due to many bad experiences.
> 
> You can usually judge a man by his actions, what have your husbands been telling you? My opinion is that you are unfairly crucifying your husband for potentially having an impure thought. Just because a thought of having sex pops into our head has no bearing on our love or dedication to our marriage. Don't let this one incident detract from what otherwise sounds like a great relationship.


Maybe my title is misleading. I am not suggesting he is going out and cheating on me. I am concerned about the lack of age limit to his thoughts. I am more focused on the inappropriateness of his lack of boundaries. A thought about sex with the body of a women is one thing, but when those thoughts seep into the underage bracket, and he openly admits to doing so, that makes me feel uncomfortable inside. Regardless if its a quick sexual thought based on appearance, he should be able to recognize that if it is illegal on the outside, then it should be a common sense thought its a no no to drift in that zone as an adult. I have not accused him of anything and his actions have shown to be true and trusting. That is why I did not "dog" on him in my message. There is nothing hidden, nothing to read between the lines and I dont create things and beat him down with it. We speak our truths back and fourth and this one we went in circles with. 

I did take to heart your explanation of the thought process. I appreciate the feedback on how it works in your mind and it does, sound very similar to what my husband explains. There is no doubt my husband is and will always be faithful. I am just a bit queezy at his choice in limits and boundaries when using this thought process.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> He *is *keeping himself "in check" if he is not acting on his thoughts. Thoughts are not actions. As far as the younger girls go ... in what setting is he looking at young girls? Girls in a school setting where it is obvious they are students and underage? Or, girls that are just "out and about"?
> 
> Also consider that many people are very bad at discerning age. Makeup and clothing can make young girls look over 18 years old. We have all seen examples of this ... 14 year old so called super-models that look 20 years old in magazines, well developed 8th graders in heavy makeup and sexy clothes that look 18+.
> 
> ...


First off, again I said this to someone else. I think my title of post is misleading. I am NOT suggesting him acting on his thoughts. I am not concerned in the least of him being unfaithful or any form of "child sexual abuse". Nothing in my post says I fear him or I think he will rape and molest children. What I am concerned about is the inappropriate use of his sexual thoughts. I do not think he needs to be including younger aged girls (13-17) in his thought process. He openly admitted to the fact they are his thoughts and he shouldnt have to censor his thoughts. If they happen to be 15, he isnt acting on it and he says the thoughts do not last long enough to be a problem. I do not agree. I think it is very morally right to be censoring your thoughts. He is the adult who has control of what he thinks and what he doesnt. If age is an issue legally, then it is a no-brainer to avoid those thoughts in your head. It is inapporpirate and it is an uncomfortable feeling to know he doesnt feel a need to censor or be respectful of the age he fantisizes. Yes these girls were "out and about" but in groups and with adults. You have a group of girls with an older male walking into a grociery store on a weekend its pretty obvious they are underage. You can tell by the company they were keeping. They all had baby faces but two of them had very short shirts and shorts. Having your head turn once is human, but more and longer after that is a bit wrong. You dont need an age dectector to know they were a group of girls having a sleepover of some sort. I am not shaming him and I told him his thoughts were boarderline pedophilic (as the ages SHOULD be a necessity when thinking sexually). With how defensive and protective you got of my husband without actually assuming I am majority of the time, a very rational wife who seeks understanding not punishment or belittlement, I would think you have had a bad experience with this sometime or another of someone accusing you or maybe someone you know. Yes I have issues with my childhood and sex. He knows this and this is why he has agreed to get help. I am uncomfortable with his thoughts. I do not believe he would ever ever act on them. My concern was if I was overreacting to being uncomfortable about thoughts. Not overreacting and thinking he is going to touch someone.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> he should be able to recognize that if it is illegal on the outside, then it should be a common sense thought its a no no to drift in that zone as an adult.


But it's not illegal. It's not illegal to think anything like this. We are getting down to the concept of how you can control your spouses thoughts and that is a slippery slope indeed. What if he can't control it? What if he is a great guy, would never act on it, but has no control over it? There are a lot of people who cannot control what they are attracted to, yet, keep it in check and keep it in their heads. Maybe he should be lauded for that.

Most importantly, you have made this about you. How he is making you feel. That's your problem, not his. There is very little difference between a 17 and an 18 year old, but that is the cutoff. In terms of legality, that is an arbitrary number where we feel comfortable enough to ensure that the person has matured enough in order to make their own decisions regarding sex with someone else over the age of 18. 

I think you have a problem with him feeling turned on and thinking about sex with anyone but you (and that I'm not going to argue or say you don't have the right to feel). But you are now blurring the lines, making it about "legality" and "morality" to cover up your insecurities. I don't think you'd feel any better if your husband assured you that he checked the drivers license of every female he ogled and as long as she was 18 years old, he thought about bending her over the arm of a couch. I think it's the last part of the sentence that's really the issue and you are using the age aspect to shame him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> But it's not illegal. It's not illegal to think anything like this. * We are getting down to the concept of how you can control your spouses thoughts *and that is a slippery slope indeed. What if he can't control it? What if he is a great guy, would never act on it, but has no control over it? There are a lot of people who cannot control what they are attracted to, yet, keep it in check and keep it in their heads. Maybe he should be lauded for that.
> 
> Most importantly, you have made this about you. How he is making you feel. That's your problem, not his. There is very little difference between a 17 and an 18 year old, but that is the cutoff. In terms of legality, that is an arbitrary number where we feel comfortable enough to ensure that the person has matured enough in order to make their own decisions regarding sex with someone else over the age of 18.
> 
> I think you have a problem with him feeling turned on and thinking about sex with anyone but you (and that I'm not going to argue or say you don't have the right to feel). But you are now blurring the lines, making it about "legality" and "morality" to cover up your insecurities. I don't think you'd feel any better if your husband assured you that he checked the drivers license of every female he ogled and as long as she was 18 years old, he thought about bending her over the arm of a couch. I think it's the last part of the sentence that's really the issue and you are using the age aspect to shame him.


How is she trying to control his thoughts?

Her sharing her feelings with him does not deprive him of agency.

And this idea that she is somehow "shaming" him sounds like a canard. If he feels shame about looking at underage girls, it is likely for a good reason.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Where to start? This is a little more "tough love" than I prefer, but you really need to take a couple steps back and see what you have posted.
> 
> When you ask your husband a question, do you want him to answer you honestly? If you do then you need to make sure the feedback you give him doesn't shut down his honest responses. Your actions will condition his actions!
> 
> ...


QFT.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> And further, for those who have daughters, did you talk to them as they came into puberty and tell them the truth you state here? "Oh honey don't worry about grown men looking at you with lust. It is harmless. All men do this. They are just going to use your image later to jack off to, or imagine you while they have sex with their wives. Me? Well of course I wouldn't look at you that way, that would be wrong. But I'm a man so I do look at all of your cute little friends that way. Hey when's the next slumber party?"


You are making this about desire and not attraction. "When's the next slumber party" implies intent to acquire those images. It's undermining the point. There is a WORLD of difference between asking your 15 year old daughter to have her friends over and watch them have pillow fights in their nighties and walking down the street, seeing a girl in a halter top and daisy dukes and glancing at her.

Stop trying to turn reaction into intent.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> This post and quite a few others on this thread are very hypocritical.
> 
> Young - are you saying that you would have no problem and feel no shame to tell your wife that you occasionally oogle and imagine having sex with teenaged girls, some of them underaged? And to further tell her that even if this bugs her, she has no right to be upset about it?
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this. I appreciate it and I agree with it. I am proud my husband does not keep things from me. We are able to talk about things that even cause dismay, disagreements and discomfort but I would rather live with this, then to go on and be ignorant of truths and possibilities. I was in a very controlling relationship before this. He lied and manipulated. I had to keep my thoughts and truths out in the open and he lied about everything and told me half truths. When I got into this relationship with my now husband, I told him straight up that all truths come out. If he feels he is keeping something inside then it is probably something we should talk about. I do the same in return. I was able to bring this up as it happened and even though it was a fight, it ended in a talk. Though we disagreed still, we were able to go to bed together and I was able to see he truly sees no wrong BUT DOES want to make it go away so it wont hurt me. I have never had this and I would take this over getting nothing. We might not always like our partners thoughts or opinions but its how we work on those things that make a relationship better and stronger. I have been in relationships where things are hidden and obviously they didnt work very well.

I think most of these men think I am accusing him of wanting underage girls only. Or accusing him of the possibility of acting on them. I know he wont. And I know he doesn't. He loves all women. He prefers my shape and size. I think he needs to monitor himself when looking at women who look like me, as they might not always be women. If they are obviously not women, he needs to turn away and not allow the thoughts to continue just because he is attracted to the body type. I just wanted to know if I was overreacting to the pain and discuss and betrayal that I keep feeling. I wanted advice in how to process these negative thoughts of my own. I should have written this post a bit better perhaps. I honestly thought I did a good job at trying to not focus it on any form of accusations but I guess people will perceive what they want when something "hits" close to home.

I am open to all the negative and positive feedback though. I use the negative to see it could be worse, and I use the positive to gain strength. I will be speaking to my therapist as well to see if it is something I should be concerned about, if it is based off past or insecurities, and how to move past this with my husband. Thank you again.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> How is she trying to control his thoughts?
> 
> Her sharing her feelings with him does not deprive him of agency.
> 
> And this idea that she is somehow "shaming" him sounds like a canard. If he feels shame about looking at underage girls, it is likely for a good reason.


If that was all she was doing I would agree .

She is now enlisting the help of a therapist to show him why his thoughts are wrong and need to change.

She is not only noting how it bothers her, but taking action. @Herschel has this nailed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> If that was all she was doing I would agree
> 
> She is now enlisting the help of a therapist to show him why his thoughts are wrong and need to change.
> 
> She is not only noting how it bothers her, but taking action. @Herschel has this nailed.


A therapist is going to show her where her thoughts may be illogical or unhealthy, far. That is what they are paid for.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> A therapist is going to show her where her thoughts may be illogical or unhealthy, far. That is what they are paid for.


Very true. However, you are still giving her a pass on intent.

The problem is not the husband's thoughts, or what the therapist will do, but the OP's unhealthy need to attempt to control what her husband is thinking, and then strongly encouraging (translation: insisting) he go to therapy to prove why his thoughts are wrong. Reeducation.

Accept it or don't, OP, but stop feeling entitled to changing his thoughts.
@jld, you normally spot controlling behavior a mile away. How are you not seeing this?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> You are making this about desire and not attraction. "When's the next slumber party" implies intent to acquire those images. It's undermining the point. There is a WORLD of difference between asking your 15 year old daughter to have her friends over and watch them have pillow fights in their nighties and walking down the street, *seeing a girl in a halter top and daisy dukes and glancing at her.*
> 
> Stop trying to turn reaction into intent.





Cognitivedissonance said:


> First off, again I said this to someone else. I think my title of post is misleading. I am NOT suggesting him acting on his thoughts. I am not concerned in the least of him being unfaithful or any form of "child sexual abuse". Nothing in my post says I fear him or I think he will rape and molest children. What I am concerned about is the inappropriate use of his sexual thoughts. I do not think he needs to be including younger aged girls (13-17) in his thought process. He openly admitted to the fact they are his thoughts and he shouldnt have to censor his thoughts. If they happen to be 15, he isnt acting on it and he says the thoughts do not last long enough to be a problem. I do not agree. I think it is very morally right to be censoring your thoughts. He is the adult who has control of what he thinks and what he doesnt. If age is an issue legally, then it is a no-brainer to avoid those thoughts in your head. It is inapporpirate and it is an uncomfortable feeling to know he doesnt feel a need to censor or be respectful of the age he fantisizes. Yes these girls were "out and about" but in groups and with adults. You have a group of girls with an older male walking into a grociery store on a weekend its pretty obvious they are underage. You can tell by the company they were keeping. They all had baby faces but two of them had very short shirts and shorts. *Having your head turn once is human, but more and longer after that is a bit wrong*. You dont need an age dectector to know they were a group of girls having a sleepover of some sort. I am not shaming him and I told him his thoughts were boarderline pedophilic (as the ages SHOULD be a necessity when thinking sexually). With how defensive and protective you got of my husband without actually assuming I am majority of the time, a very rational wife who seeks understanding not punishment or belittlement, I would think you have had a bad experience with this sometime or another of someone accusing you or maybe someone you know. Yes I have issues with my childhood and sex. He knows this and this is why he has agreed to get help. I am uncomfortable with his thoughts. I do not believe he would ever ever act on them. My concern was if I was overreacting to being uncomfortable about thoughts. Not overreacting and thinking he is going to touch someone.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I think that many people don't seem to realise that we can control what we look at and what we allow ourselves to think about.
> I wouldn't let myself think about sex with another man. If I saw a good looking guy, I would deliberately look away and not look a second time. Its a habit that you can get into.
> 
> Have you heard of bouncing the eyes? Its when we notice someone who maybe isn't wearing a lot or who we find attractive, and we immediately bounce our eyes away. Its something that can become automatic if we practise it regularly. My husband does it. Also if he sees a scantily clad lady on tv for example, he will close his eyes. It something he has done all of his adult life.
> ...


Thats all I was trying to get through to him. All he says is he can try but he sees no reason why he should. He wants to go to counseling so he can know if what he is doing is okay or not okay and he wants to go so he understands why he has to be more aware of thoughts he wouldnt act on. He told me counseling might help him to understand my side because he hates how disgusted I feel about it and he really cant grasp it. This man love me to the moon and back and beyond as I do him. He has other issues to that we have done well without therapy but we are planning on having a baby so he told me he wanted to be as strong and as clear minded as he could so he could be a good dad, good step dad and keep me happy. This is why I wanted to reach out to others. I wanted to know if it was wrong to ask him to "change" this, as I do not ask him to change. I wanted to know if it was ok to feel this way of if it was truly something normal. I wanted to know if it was okay to be upset over someone elses thoughts, as it is not a reality per say. I forget how deeply people read between lines and create perceptions of another person. I am learning from the negative comments so its all appreciated. I think its nice for your husband to be respectful like that. I am not sure I would go as far as to not want him to look, I just want him to be mindful of age and respect my discomfort or work with me so I am not uncomfortable when we go out.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

@jld

That's fine. If I'm a dude and I see a hot chick in front of my wife and I am trying to download a 2 minute movie onto my internal hard drive, yeah, that's messed up. Nobody is going to argue that and if that is what he is doing, then she has valid reason to be upset.

I am merely focusing on how she is shaming him about the "underage" girls he is noticing. That is unfair and inconsequential to the statement above or any negative feelings she has.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Very true. However, you are still giving her a pass on intent.


What do you think her intent is? 



> The problem is not the husband's thoughts, or what the therapist will do, but the OP's unhealthy need to attempt to control what her husband is thinking, and then strongly encouraging (translation: insisting) he go to therapy to prove why his thoughts are wrong. Reeducation.
> 
> Accept it or don't, OP, but stop feeling entitled to changing his thoughts.


Her therapist is going to straighten her out if she is not seeing things in a healthy way, far. I commend OP for being open to going. She was even open enough to ask the question here.


> @jld, you normally spot controlling behavior a mile away. How are you not seeing this?


Is it controlling to be concerned about her husband ogling underage girls? Or is it a sign of health and astuteness?

I would feel very concerned if my husband behaved the way her husband is, far. I have never seen Dug look at a woman in any way that I have found concerning, much less some underage female. It is surely yet another reason I respect him so much.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Thats all I was trying to get through to him. All he says is he can try but he sees no reason why he should. He wants to go to counseling so he can know if what he is doing is okay or not okay and he wants to go so he understands why he has to be more aware of thoughts he wouldnt act on. He told me counseling might help him to understand my side because he hates how disgusted I feel about it and he really cant grasp it. This man love me to the moon and back and beyond as I do him. He has other issues to that we have done well without therapy but we are planning on having a baby so he told me he wanted to be as strong and as clear minded as he could so he could be a good dad, good step dad and keep me happy. This is why I wanted to reach out to others. I wanted to know if it was wrong to ask him to "change" this, as I do not ask him to change. I wanted to know if it was ok to feel this way of if it was truly something normal. I wanted to know if it was okay to be upset over someone elses thoughts, as it is not a reality per say. I forget how deeply people read between lines and create perceptions of another person. I am learning from the negative comments so its all appreciated. I think its nice for your husband to be respectful like that. I am not sure I would go as far as to not want him to look, I just want him to be mindful of age and respect my discomfort or work with me so I am not uncomfortable when we go out.


This sure does not sound controlling to me, @farsidejunky.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> I would feel very concerned if my husband behaved the way her husband is, far. I have never seen Dug look at a woman in any way that I have found concerning, much less some underage female. It is surely yet another reason I respect him so much.


You respect him because he is good at hiding it?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> @jld
> 
> That's fine. If I'm a dude and I see a hot chick in front of my wife and I am trying to download a 2 minute movie onto my internal hard drive, yeah, that's messed up. Nobody is going to argue that and if that is what he is doing, then she has valid reason to be upset.


Agreed.



> I am merely focusing on how she is shaming him about the "underage" girls he is noticing. That is unfair and inconsequential to the statement above or any negative feelings she has.


Do you have any daughters, Herschel?


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Very true. However, you are still giving her a pass on intent.
> 
> The problem is not the husband's thoughts, or what the therapist will do, but the OP's unhealthy need to attempt to control what her husband is thinking, and then strongly encouraging (translation: insisting) he go to therapy to prove why his thoughts are wrong. Reeducation.
> 
> ...


If I wanted to "change his thoughts" I would have made this an issue when he told me over a year ago that he had sex with girls in his head that he saw on the streets. I was upset for a day or so but I moved on as he is human. My husband wants to go to therapy. He was researching it online before I suggested we BOTH get help about this issue. I want to learn if it is okay for him to have a lack of boundaries in his mind and if its wrong for me to want it to be addressed. My husband wants to know why I am hurting about HIS thoughts and if he has an underline issue that needs to be addressed with his lack of concern for mental boundaries. I think that is very healthy. That we both recognize that we dont understand something and we BOTH want to understand our partner. I do have a past with sexual abuse and I need to know if his thoughts are inappropriate or not regardless if they become a reality. I do not stop him from watching porn, I do not get crazy if we are out on the street and there are beautiful women everywhere, I do not put him down for having eyes or thoughts, but I WILL be honest about how I feel about him having inappropriate thoughts of underage girls. That is uncomfortable.

I would like to know how my opinion on how I think thoughts should be handled means I am attempting to control his thinking?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> You respect him because he is good at hiding it?


 @Duguesclin is not doing it, period, Herschel. 

And I bet he is going to find the idea of anyone looking at any underage female very distasteful when he sees this discussion.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any daughters, Herschel?


I have a step daughter, who I adore, see as often as I can, is almost 15 years old, and is a knockout. I have had instances where I am walking with her and guys have overtly made noises and whatnot like, "damn" or something of that nature. That type of stuff is clearly inappropriate for any circumstance. However, I am under no delusion that she is the subject of many an ogle and life is life and worrying about that stuff is wasted energy.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> @Duguesclin is not doing it, period, Herschel.
> 
> And I bet he is going to find the idea of anyone looking at any underage female very distasteful when he sees this discussion.


I bet he will say that too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> If I wanted to "change his thoughts" I would have made this an issue when *he told me over a year ago that he had sex with girls in his head that he saw on the streets*. I was upset for a day or so but I moved on as he is human. My husband wants to go to therapy. He was researching it online before I suggested we BOTH get help about this issue. I want to learn if it is okay for him to have a lack of boundaries in his mind and if its wrong for me to want it to be addressed. My husband wants to know why I am hurting about HIS thoughts and if he has an underline issue that needs to be addressed with his lack of concern for mental boundaries. I think that is very healthy. That we both recognize that we dont understand something and we BOTH want to understand our partner. I do have a past with sexual abuse and I need to know if his thoughts are inappropriate or not regardless if they become a reality. I do not stop him from watching porn, I do not get crazy if we are out on the street and there are beautiful women everywhere, I do not put him down for having eyes or thoughts, but I WILL be honest about how I feel about him having inappropriate thoughts of underage girls. That is uncomfortable.
> 
> I would like to know how my opinion on how I think thoughts should be handled means I am attempting to control his thinking?


Oh, dear. Are these those underage girls?

You are so right to be going to counseling for this. And it is good he is willing to go, too. I know I would be very concerned about this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I have a step daughter, who I adore, see as often as I can, is almost 15 years old, and is a knockout. I have had instances where I am walking with her and guys have overtly made noises and whatnot like, "damn" or something of that nature. That type of stuff is clearly inappropriate for any circumstance. However, I am under no delusion that she is the subject of many an ogle and life is life and worrying about that stuff is wasted energy.


As the mother of a daughter a bit past the teen years, I am sickened by the thought of a man having ogled her. Dug certainly would not do such a thing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I bet he will say that too.


He surely will. Because it is true.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> He surely will. Because it is true.


I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying you don't know that. You can only trust/hope that. Why? Cause it's in his head and not yours. Maybe we all just need to stay in our own heads. If actions show you differently, then fine (like really long stares at all women). Everything else, leave that in their heads. You have no idea what people struggle with. You haven't walked a mile in their shoes. Life is hard and complicated and when we start to monitor what people think, you will only be disappointed.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Herschel said:


> You respect him because he is good at hiding it?


I can honestly say I do not think my husband knows when he is doing it. When I met him people told me what I see is what I get. There is nothing hidden about him and he can be so clueless and innocent. I see that. Which is why I brought this up to him. I respect my husband because he is honest. He could say he doesnt do it and shrug it off. He could say he would never think of an underage girl. He could say he thinks I am crazy and I need to get off my high horse. He doesnt. He is genuine and there are not many people out there like this. He has been the same man since the day I met him. Her husband may hide it well. Or he may just be very respectful.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying you don't know that. You can only trust/hope that. Why? Cause it's in his head and not yours. Maybe we all just need to stay in our own heads. If actions show you differently, then fine (like really long stares at all women). Everything else, leave that in their heads. You have no idea what people struggle with. You haven't walked a mile in their shoes. Life is hard and complicated and when we start to monitor what people think, you will only be disappointed.


I have been with him 24 years, Herschel. If he had thoughts of underage girls in his head, I would know it by now. 

Were you the one who mentioned you think OP is struggling with wanting her husband to desire only her?

Question for the gentlemen, if you feel comfortable answering: Are you struggling with the same desires as OP's husband? Is that affecting your feelings about the subject?

Because I can tell you that the fact that I have had a teenage daughter is affecting mine.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Herschel said:


> I have a step daughter, who I adore, see as often as I can, is almost 15 years old, and is a knockout. I have had instances where I am walking with her and guys have overtly made noises and whatnot like, "damn" or something of that nature. That type of stuff is clearly inappropriate for any circumstance. However, I am under no delusion that she is the subject of many an ogle and life is life and worrying about that stuff is wasted energy.


I remember when my daughter was around 14/15 and I saw a middle age man staring at her longer than what is normal - it made me feel sick. She was still sleeping with a teddy bear and collecting badges and listening to teeny bop music. 

Now she is almost 18 I see men staring at her and it just amuses us - I sometimes say 'that guy was giving you the eye.' and she feels flattered. There is a huge difference between being 15 and being 18. 

I showed this thread to my husband last night and he was 'urghh'. :frown2:


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

jld said:


> Oh, dear. Are these those underage girls?
> 
> You are so right to be going to counseling for this. And it is good he is willing to go, too. I know I would be very concerned about this.


Okay I wrote that kind of aggressively. A year ago he explained he has passing sexual moments with women he sees on the street. At that time the possibility of underage girls did not come up. I was only processing the fact of why he needed to do that in the first place if he is so happy with me. I soon came to terms with it and moved on as he does not hide or ever stop showing me he loves me and sexually desires me, I learned to deal with the fact they are passing thoughts. It wasnt till I started noticing the lack of boundaries over the last year and this past weekend the two I saw his head and eyes lingering on were to obviously underage. I decided to wait till Monday to process this and then I spoke to him about my concern. He admitted he did not see a need for boundaries or limits in his head if its not something he ever returns to or acknowledges after the thought passes. He said he doesnt hold onto the thoughts, or the person but knows he has fleeting moments.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I can honestly say I do not think my husband knows when he is doing it. When I met him people told me what I see is what I get. There is nothing hidden about him and he can be so clueless and innocent. I see that. Which is why I brought this up to him. I respect my husband because he is honest. He could say he doesnt do it and shrug it off. He could say he would never think of an underage girl. He could say he thinks I am crazy and I need to get off my high horse. He doesnt. He is genuine and there are not many people out there like this. He has been the same man since the day I met him. Her husband may hide it well. Or he may just be very respectful.


This is good to hear. He does not have an evil heart. That is so good to know.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> I have been with him 24 years, Herschel. If he had thoughts of underage girls in his head, I would know it by now.


I'm sorry, you are a human. You have no more capability to know what someone else is thinking more than anyone else. There are plenty of people who have been married for just as long and had no idea about what their spouse was thinking. Maybe it is he who knows you so well and thus, never lets you observe it. 



> Were you the one who mentioned you think OP is struggling with wanting her husband to desire only her?


Yes.



> Question for the gentlemen, if you are willing to answer: Are you struggling with the same desires as OP's husband? Is that affecting your feelings about the subject?


Struggling with what? Looking at other women that are attractive? Thinking some impure thoughts every now and then? I think most here would admit that. Well, maybe we shouldn't, cause look what the truth ends up being like...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

peacem said:


> *I remember when my daughter was around 14/15 and I saw a middle age man staring at her longer than what is normal - it made me feel sick.* She was still sleeping with a teddy bear and collecting badges and listening to teeny bop music.
> 
> Now she is almost 18 I see men staring at her and it just amuses us - I sometimes say 'that guy was giving you the eye.' and she feels flattered. There is a huge difference between being 15 and being 18.
> 
> I showed this thread to my husband last night and he was 'urghh'. :frown2:


It's just gross, isn't it? Like you want to stand in front of her and glare at him. Dirty old man.

That is how I would feel, anyway.

Mama bears, unite!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I'm sorry, you are a human. You have no more capability to know what someone else is thinking more than anyone else. There are plenty of people who have been married for just as long and had no idea about what their spouse was thinking. Maybe it is he who knows you so well and thus, never lets you observe it.


No, Dug really is pure. You might have to know him to fully appreciate that.



> Yes.
> 
> Struggling with what? Looking at other women that are attractive? Thinking some impure thoughts every now and then? I think most here would admit that. Well, maybe we shouldn't, cause look what the truth ends up being like...


It is the underage aspect of this that is setting off bells, Herschel.

Though, frankly, I cannot say I am impressed with ogling at any age. I have great respect for men who aspire to high standards of purity.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

peacem said:


> I remember when my daughter was around 14/15 and I saw a middle age man staring at her longer than what is normal - it made me feel sick. She was still sleeping with a teddy bear and collecting badges and listening to teeny bop music.
> 
> Now she is almost 18 I see men staring at her and it just amuses us - I sometimes say 'that guy was giving you the eye.' and she feels flattered. There is a huge difference between being 15 and being 18.
> 
> I showed this thread to my husband last night and he was 'urghh'. :frown2:


I get what you are saying, and my point is that sometimes it's really hard to discern what is 15 and 18. She definitely looks like she could be 17/18. There are clearly girls who are 15 and look 13-15. There are plenty of kids in her class having sex. They aren't collecting badges or sleeping with teddy bears. My point is that obviously kids mature at different ages and being able to tell the difference isn't easy. I am not saying it is "ok" to ogle a 15 year old, and it that is what you are getting out of it, that's not my problem. My point is that it's hard to tell if she is 15 and being mature or attractive like a 17 or 18 year old blurs the line. 

How often have you seen a scene in a movie where a guy checks out a girl and another guy goes, "That's my daughter!" Then the other guy goes, "So?" and then "She is only 15!" and then the guy responds with a "Ugh" or "Makes a face that he is grossed out." The point is that most guys don't want to check out underage girls, but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It is very difficult to judge the ages of some young women. I've guessed wildly wrong in both directions at various times.

I think it is natural to glance at attractive people. Staring is a different matter, but I see no point in pretending that you don't notice a beautiful person.

Fantasies - my opinion is that fantasies are absolutely private. People have all sort of fantasies about things that they would never do in real life. I would never tell all my fantasies, and would only ask my wife with the goal of trying to find a way to satisfy them. 

Taking some action towards actually having sex with some is a whole different matter.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

jld said:


> No, Dug really is pure. You might have to know him to fully appreciate that.


I may appreciate it, but I'd never know it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I may appreciate it, but I'd never know it.


You would feel it. He is a stand up guy.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhtred said:


> It is very difficult to judge the ages of some young women. I've guessed wildly wrong in both directions at various times.
> 
> I think it is natural to glance at attractive people. Staring is a different matter, but I see no point in pretending that you don't notice a beautiful person.
> 
> ...


Where do those actions originate, though?

I think that is a concern of OP's, especially as she herself experienced CSA.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I can honestly say I do not think my husband knows when he is doing it. When I met him people told me what I see is what I get. There is nothing hidden about him and he can be so clueless and innocent. I see that. Which is why I brought this up to him. I respect my husband because he is honest. He could say he doesnt do it and shrug it off. He could say he would never think of an underage girl. He could say he thinks I am crazy and I need to get off my high horse. He doesnt. He is genuine and there are not many people out there like this. He has been the same man since the day I met him. Her husband may hide it well. Or he may just be very respectful.


CD, all else being equal, count yourself lucky with a man that transparant.

Most people have preferences. Young-looking, thin, fat, blonde, dark, muscular, etc. You are petite and young-looking and that is exactly how he likes women. Unless they are blind, people will look at other people and find them attractive or not. 17 or 18, doesn't matter. As you said, it's not like he's going to hump any woman/girl of the same type, under age or not.

So really, give the man a break. You are exactly his type. And he's transparent about it - too much for you taste, as it seems to be.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

jld said:


> Question for the gentlemen, if you feel comfortable answering: Are you struggling with the same desires as OP's husband? Is that affecting your feelings about the subject?


As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I like any man will notice attractive women. It's what we we do with the sudden random thoughts that defines who we are. 

A famous Buddhist teacher once likened thoughts to bubbles on a stream. We may choose to follow and protect the bubble, we may choose to let it pass by and pay it little heed, or we may choose to actively pop the bubble. 

As to seeing an attractive woman, it is much like seeing an attractive car. I can acknowledge its attractiveness, but that doesn't mean I want to own it, or even drive it just once. I just appreciate that it is an attractive automobile. It goes its way and I go mine, as it should be. The thought never progresses from acknowledgement to anything more. At this point in my life, I feel like every woman is beautiful (shy of being morbidly obese or wholly unhealthy in some other obvious way), but there are different levels of beauty and the top level is inhabited by one woman and one woman only; the only one who can turn my head is the one who share's my bed. Period. No other woman, no matter how pleasing to the eye she may be, can hold my attention longer than that random nanosecond it takes to recognize external physical attractiveness and move on. 

As for underage, that's a whole 'nother thing. I can't imagine having such a thought , but if such a thought was to appear, it would be a bubble which must be popped immediately--not allowed to exist in time or space, My youngest of three is about to graduate high school, so I have had a parade of attractive underage girls going through my house for most of the last decade. I can't imagine thinking of any of them as anything more than teenage girls--ditto any random stranger spotted out and about. Not every man may be so contained, which is why I fall back on the Buddhist bubble analogy; bubbles may form and there's nothing we can do about it, but we can choose whether to nurture or pop the bubble--that is how we should be judged.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I understand the OPs concerns as a victim of CSA.

OTOH, outrageous fantasies are not all that uncommon. Some women fantasize about being raped. Straight men about homosexual encounters. Bondage, incest, bestiality - all are not all that uncommon as fantasies. 

I don't think this is limited to sexual things. I've fantasized about walking through my office building, tossing grenades into offices as I pass by, or having a missile launcher on my car to eliminate lane cutters. That doesn't mean I'm at risk to commit workplace violence or road rage. 

I would be concerned if someones only fantasies were of underage girls, but it its just one of many, I don't see it as an issue. 

OTOH I can't imagine ever discussing some fantasies. I would never let my wife know that I fantasize about one of her friends, or about violent sex, or a wide range of other things. I assume she has fantasies that I don't need to know about. 




jld said:


> Where do those actions originate, though?
> 
> I think that is a concern of OP's, especially as she herself experienced CSA.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I also wonder how many of you who have daughters aged 13 - 17 are ok with knowing that "every guy" in the world, aged 13 - 80 is banging his monkey in the shower with images of her dancing naked through his head? And what if those guys just happen to glance a little too long at your daughter. Are you just going to chuckle and give him the thumbs up because what he's thinking is perfectly natural and normal, and meanwhile you are imagining HIS 13 y/o daughter naked?


Hmm, did anyone actually say that? 

I think you all need to keep in mind the age of the OP's spouse. I presume he is around 30 since she stated she is 31? I don't think it is at all out of bounds for a 30 year old to be attracted to pretty much any female obviously younger than him who presents as a woman. It is up to him to apply filters internally as to what is appropriate or not - he's married so he can't act on it, if he was single is she > 18?
But, if you have a 13 year old daughter presenting herself as a 18 or 20 year old perhaps you should think about that. 

Now, as we get older that age window of attractiveness DOES tend to slide upwards. It IS creepy if a 45 year old is even contemplating an obvious, or even not so obvious 16 year old. And 18 shouldn't really be much of an issue either. But 30? Not an issue. Might be, probably is, an issue for a lot of 45 year old women but not being male you have no frame of reference. 

The female perspective goes the other way, No one would give it a second thought if an 18 year old women married a 28 year old. 35, maybe, 40 yes for most.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

anonmd said:


> The female perspective goes the other way, No one would give it a second thought if an 18 year old women married a 28 year old. 35, maybe, 40 yes for most.


This is almost the exact same conversation we were having last night. My SIL married her husband when she was 22 - her husband was 52. Honestly nobody really cared about the age difference, at least not openly, but we were only young too. Now my H is 45, he often thinks about that age gap as being very creepy and does look at his BIL with different eyes - because a woman of 22 looks very, very young to him. Not to mention the vast difference in maturity, he often says its difficult to have a conversation with 20ish old colleagues because it is all rather superficial, shallow conversations.

Sorry to digress but I thought it was interesting.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

To answer your question in the title of this thread - yes thoughts can be just thoughts. I don't think we can always control thoughts that pop in our head - but I do think we can learn to re-direct our thoughts from negative or inappropriate ones to positive and more appropriate ones. I think the thoughts that pop in your husband's head are quite normal and happens to many men (AND also women concerning thoughts towards good looking men - including young men). Many people have sexual thoughts that are triggered by visual stimulation of attractive people - young and old. I also don't think that these thoughts occurring when he sees young girls makes him a pedophile or a pervert. 

However, having said that - just because something is common and normal does not mean that it is a good thing. So I think it does not hurt to educate your husband on why he might want to work on re-directing these thoughts when they occur and not just accepting them as something that just happens. I think it does not hurt to educate him on why some would be offended and think it is inappropriate for men to look at innocent young girls and have thoughts about having sex with them - even if they would never act upon those thoughts - or even if the thoughts are only based on visual stimulation and is not connecting in any way with the age of the girl. 

What concerns me about your post the most is your thoughts and your reaction! Your strong, almost fearful reaction to his revelation - to the point of it affecting your relationship with him - especially since you say you have a really good relationship, that he is a great guy, and that his behaviors are all above board - does seem to be an over-reaction to me. Your post suggests that you think that because he has these thoughts - it must mean he wants to do what he is thinking about - that he wants to have sex with young girls and/or other women. It sounds like that maybe you are now wondering if he is a pedophile and is really only attracted to you because you have a body type that resembles young girls. Is this what you fear and is this why you are are having such a negative reaction to what he has told you. Did his revelation destroy your trust in him somehow? Did it change the way you see your husband? Clearly it has - but why?

If so, the real questions you may want to ask is where are YOUR negative thoughts and fears coming from towards his revelation? Are your fears based on reality or are they just unfounded fears and thoughts. If they are unfounded - how can you deal with your fears and re-direct your own negative thoughts so that they don't mess up the good relationship you have with your husband? Maybe you both need some counseling. Something to think about!

(I started this post early this morning - before most of the above discussion - and then got sidetracked before I could come back and finish it. I wrote it before seeing all of the previous discussion posted this morning. So if it sounds like I did not read the above before I wrote my response - it is because I did not read the above before I wrote my response! lol)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I understand the OPs concerns as a victim of CSA.
> 
> OTOH, outrageous fantasies are not all that uncommon. Some women fantasize about being raped. Straight men about homosexual encounters. Bondage, incest, bestiality - all are not all that uncommon as fantasies.
> 
> ...


I tell my husband all my fantasies. 

There really is not anything I do not tell him. I want him to know me fully.

And I would be really concerned if he had some of the fantasies you mention.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Where to start? This is a little more "tough love" than I prefer, but you really need to take a couple steps back and see what you have posted.
> 
> When you ask your husband a question, do you want him to answer you honestly? If you do then you need to make sure the feedback you give him doesn't shut down his honest responses. Your actions will condition his actions!
> 
> ...


First off, writing is very hard to do when you have so much in your head. The "I decided to DROP IT' Thing was because I was taken off guard. Yes I have insecurities. I never said I didnt. That is why I was working around his honesty. I dont make a scene. It is not something I make sure he notices. If I feel insecure, which I know has ONLY to do with me and for very good reasons from my past, I make sure to go about that moment and deal with it in a way I am comfortable. I do not want him to feel bad for it, if I did I would pull him down with me every time I felt it. Which is often when my anxiety is very high. I know the difference between my insecurities and him hurting me. Thats why I have created measures to keep a smile on my face and hug and kiss him and not bring it up. How many insecure women go a year of not bringing up something that hurts them? Not many, I have a lot of friends who rehash till their boyfriends or husbands go to extremes of avoiding living. THAT IS NOT what I want. Yes, I would love my husband to only desire me, but I am happy to know in our love life, he really does. You see you do not know what I lived with in my past to cause so much distress and insecurity and I go to counseling to deal with many things from my past. Pushing aside and creating mental plans when I feel it rising, is something I am not above doing and our relationship is near perfect so I do what I can to not allow past pains to affect him. I was hurt and I let him know. I should be allowed to do that in general no matter what the topic is about.

My husband can tell me. We talk about everything. The night I brought up the fact I saw him oogle at underage girls, he told me he was looking up a councelor. He looked at me and said what do you think we should do? I said maybe get some help, he said "I am already looking" and he was on his phone. One night of expressing concern about his lack of boundaries does not make me "push him away" or "control him". I am going to see my own therapist to deal with why I would be upset about MY thoughts about HIS thoughts. I am not going to see my therapist because HE IS WRONG AND BAD AND PERVEY. I want to know if I should be concerned with his lack of boundaries with his thoughts. I am going to therapy to talk about why the underage part disgusts me. I am going to therapy because I love him and I need to understand his thought process and how to seperate my feelings from my past. I know why I am going to therapy. So I can be a better wife for him. So please chill on the judging before putting me down thinking he is the only problem. He is not. He is going to counseling because he doesnt like that he cant understand why I feel the way I do. He wants to understand my pain. He wants to know if he has to change it and if he should then how. He wants to know why he never thought of limits and if there is any underline issue. He has other struggles that we have done well together at working on alone but having help and someone for him to talk to wouldnt hurt. Not only to deal with anything with him, but to also get to express himself when my PTSD, Autism and anxiety surface. He has changed my life for the better and I dont want to be anything but better for him. He feels the same for me which is why we are honest with one another. Even if it hurts. If I shame him its out of pain and I alwasy ALWAYS recognize it and apologize. I have been in therapy since I was 15. I do not have any problem with admitting my faults. One of my biggest strengths is being able to judge my pain vs. what is and then changing my reactions. Which is why if we fight, it still ends in talking. Even if I am disgusted and hurt inside. I am human.

I confronted him about his lingering of underage girls. I did not confront him at glancing at other women. It was a sit down, "baby there is something I noticed this weekend that made me feel uncomfortable and I would like to get it out in the open so it doesnt pent up and allow my thoughts to grow more than they are..." Yes, that is so bad to do with your partner. Expressing yourself is terrible. (sarcasm) I never said "horrifying glances" so please do not put quotes around that.

I wrote an outline as I was writing fast. It happens in posts as I cant tell you every detail of every moment to give a clear picture of who I am and who he is. Yes, this is about me. I was the one that brought it up because I was uncomfortable. It is about my feelings because again, I was the one that was uncomfortable. When you speak to your partner about issues, its typically about one person or the other. 

I have a very unique style. I dress abnormally, I am not dressing skimmpy or sexually unless him and I are going on a date to an adult only place. One thing he loves the most about me is my individuality and that might be why some people mistake me for 16-18. But the main reason is because I am a 31 year old with a 16-18 year olds body and face. Which is why I mentioned it was hard for me to be satisfied with how I look now, as I never thought of myself as looking younger even with mentionigs from strangers, UNTIL my husband was obviously watching those teens, who in fact, had my body type. I was expressing an internal disgust of even my own image because now it is related to sexual images of teens. If I look like a teen, then yes, my husband is attracted to that image. These are all instant feelings. Things that felt like a "hit in the face" and at the time, yes it was an overreaction but in all fairness the girls are underage. 

None of this changed the way I felt about him. As in I still love him. He is still that man who makes life worth living. He is still sexy and wonderful. BUT it did change the way I felt about his touch. It was hard to look at him. It was hard because I couldnt understand his lack of boundaries. I couldnt handle how distant this made me feel so quickly. Its because it involved underage girls. Not because it involved women. I was disgusted in his lack of wanting to put limits and censor where his eyes go. He told me he didnt see a problem with it if it was in his head and he wasnt actually touching or masturbating to the fact they were underage, as to him it was a passing thought of attraction to the body. I was hurt because I couldnt understand him and he couldnt understand me. I was sick because of my past and older men and underage is a trigger for me. I already know whats my fault in all this. I do not think its asking the world for him to just be mindful, that the possibility of someone who looks like me is underage, is something he should watch out for. I do not think sex with an underage girl is good inside your head or out. Again though, that is why I am going to counseling. 

I think I wrote this when I was upset and some things got percieved harsher than it was meant to. It is hard to put everything down in a way it will process with everyone. I am in agreement that much is due to insecurity but please try not to pass judgement either. I did not judge him on his sexual fantasies. He never said "I want you to dress like a school girl" and than I went crazy on him. This was about him staring at a group of underage girls (with what looked like a sleep over because there was a father figure) and it was very obvious with the older man next to them, that they were teenyboppers. Braces, acne, teenage actions and behaviors. I talked to him about it because I noticed it twice. If he glanced I would never have brought it up, as they caught my attention too, again we are human. But lingering and doing long double takes was very uncomfortable for me to witness and I would rather him know then me keep it inside and explode or something after I have seen it one to many times or something.

Last night he and I had a very calm night. I did not bring it up but when he went to put his arms around me for bed, I cried and told him I wanted to love on him and hit him at the same time. I wouldnt hit him, but the fear of the underage thing is deep for many reasons. He told me "I know and thank you for warning me of how you feel" "I am sorry for how this has hurt you" He kissed my head and said I love you. I told him "I am sorry I cant understand this and if I have made you feel bad in the process, I love you". I do not see how unhealthy this is. We both had ****ty pasts and we have promised to not make the same mistakes in the future. I just came here to get opinions on how I felt and if it was okay. I probably should have figured out a different way to express it but I wanted to talk to someone about it. Thank you for your input.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You said in your OP:



Cognitivedissonance said:


> *One day* my husband told me
> "Even though I have occasional split-second thoughts of having sex with other women, I would never and could never have sex with anyone else since I found you because our sex life is so active and amazing and you have the perfect body that I am the most attracted to." (I personally have a very high sex drive, higher than his so he loves it)...
> 
> ...I confronted him about this after *this weekend* I saw him do it twice. He swears he doesn't even remember doing it. He said he doesn't usually monitor age when he spots someone he is attracted too. This includes the sexual thoughts that last a "split-second". He said if he is checking out a girl that happens to be underage its because he is attracted to the body type, which is like mine, and its not like he is going to I.D every girl. I am very thin and small. Some people mistake me for 16-18 years old still. I am 31. I told him he should know, morally, that anyone that looks my size has the possibility to be underage. There is a difference in my shape and a teens shape. I do have mild curves and the muscle build is different in a child vs a women.


So what happened over a year ago? As I see it, he just told you about the issue that is a show-stopper for you last weekend. Which is it? Can you see how this would easily be misinterpreted?



Cognitivedissonance said:


> My husband wants to go to therapy. He was researching it online before I suggested we BOTH get help about this issue. I want to learn if it is okay for him to have a lack of boundaries in his mind and if its wrong for me to want it to be addressed. My husband wants to know why I am hurting about HIS thoughts and if he has an underline issue that needs to be addressed with his lack of concern for mental boundaries.


I think this is very mature of him.



Cognitivedissonance said:


> I do have a past with sexual abuse and I need to know if his thoughts are inappropriate or not regardless if they become a reality.


This is a multi-part problem.

1. Did the abuse occur when you were aged 13-17? Can you see why that would cloud the issue?

2. Nobody gets to decide what is inappropriate to you but you. Conversely, nobody is required to see it your way, either.

3. Even if the counselor agrees with you, what then? Will you remind him that both you AND the counselor told him he is wrong? I see no good coming from this because the counselor will either confirm your opinion, his opinion, neither, or both. Then what? What will you do?



Cognitivedissonance said:


> I do not stop him from watching porn, I do not get crazy if we are out on the street and there are beautiful women everywhere, I do not put him down for having eyes or thoughts, but I WILL be honest about how I feel about him having inappropriate thoughts of underage girls. That is uncomfortable.


How will go about making it "comfortable"? Please tell me your action plan. Either he makes it less obvious, or you look the other way, or both.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thank you for this. It is a *CRUCIAL* clarification.



Cognitivedissonance said:


> Okay I wrote that kind of aggressively. A year ago he explained he has passing sexual moments with women he sees on the street. At that time the possibility of underage girls did not come up. I was only processing the fact of why he needed to do that in the first place if he is so happy with me. I soon came to terms with it and moved on as he does not hide or ever stop showing me he loves me and sexually desires me, I learned to deal with the fact they are passing thoughts. It wasnt till I started noticing the lack of boundaries over the last year and this past weekend the two I saw his head and eyes lingering on were to obviously underage. I decided to wait till Monday to process this and then I spoke to him about my concern. He admitted he did not see a need for boundaries or limits in his head if its not something he ever returns to or acknowledges after the thought passes. He said he doesnt hold onto the thoughts, or the person but knows he has fleeting moments.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

introvert said:


> Yes, thoughts can be just thoughts. Your hubs trusted you enough to tell you his thoughts...I'm sure that he never anticipated your reaction to his revelations. That's because he loves you and digs you and trusts you. I'm sure he's back pedaling like crazy to try to placate you right now. And he will never open his mouth again.
> 
> My gf is very much like your hubs. She really adores me, is totally into me, is a fantastic lover. She is very open about her past and her thoughts. At first, I went a tiny bit off the deep end at some of her revelations, but frankly, she is completely innocent in her motives, as was your hubs.
> 
> ...


I think how I wrote things makes it seem like I am a fiery raging monster somehow lol. The answers I am getting are similar in the manner of how I reacted. I did not do the best with describing what parts I reacted to out loud and what parts of it are in my head that I disclosed to the post. The fact is, I do not like the underage part. At all and I know it is related to my past. I was trying to get a good pole on whether or not it is valid for someone to feel so hurt by it. Its not the eye catching, its the sexual part. I look at women, I am bisexual. I do not think eye catching is bad, I do not think sexual thoughts are bad, I think staring and having sexual thoughts about underage girls is uncomfortable and inappropriate. I have a bigger sex drive than my husband and he loves it but we do deal with personal insecurities I have and I have been dealing with them from one relationship to another and he is the only one who has ever made me feel good about myself. Which I also believe is why it seems to hurt so much more.

We have not stopped talking about things and this is not the first time him or I have been hurt by the others feelings, thoughts, needs, wants or concerns. This is just the first time its been hard for me to just, move past. I dont like that I cant move past it. I also do not like the discomfort of my husband not understanding age limit and why it would bother me. I am not just sitting here yelling at him about it all day every day. It was a longer argument/talk than normal but it was because I was stuck and going in circles with feeling understanding and grossed out. Hence my screen name, cognitivedissonance. Its when you feel strongly about something in more than one way. I completely accept but I cant dismiss my gut-twisting disgusted feeling as well. He told me he wouldn't stop talking to me because he has never had an honest relationship before and he is willing to take the poopy moments over distance, lies and secrets. I agree. No matter how much this hurts, I am more than thrilled I could talk to him about it and still give him a hug and kiss goodbye this morning. He knows all I feel and I know all he feels about the subject. Its all out, there is not secret time bomb, or the fact we couldnt get everything out because one doesnt listen to each other. We both said our peace in hours of getting loud and calmly discussing. 

One of my biggest fears is him closing up because I had a partner that did that to me, and I felt I wasnt allowed to say anything at all ever. 

Thank you for your thoughts. I want you to know I have taken responsibility to how I feel and I hope to continue to do so.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

uhtred said:


> It is very difficult to judge the ages of some young women. I've guessed wildly wrong in both directions at various times.
> 
> I think it is natural to glance at attractive people. Staring is a different matter, but I see no point in pretending that you don't notice a beautiful person.
> 
> ...


I understand some girls are hard to tell, even more so if they are only on their own. When in a group of same aged people, and an adult is present, it is really hard to not tell they are underage. It could be because I work around youth that I can spot it easier, but the lack of discuss is the concern when he knows they are underage. No its not something he is going after, but if he knows or it is obvious then it should not enter that zone. Just because fantasies are normal to have, doesnt mean you are having feelings that are normal. It is not hurtful to be careful about age and to advert the eyes if around it. I do understand where you are coming from though and I will try to be more mindful about how to deal with negative or positive thoughts of fantasies. This is something my therapist will surely discuss with me.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

jld said:


> Where do those actions originate, though?
> 
> I think that is a concern of OP's, especially as she herself experienced CSA.


yes


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am not surprised you feel distant from him knowing that he has those thoughts about the underaged. I think that is a natural warning system in your, and I hope most women's, psyches.

Honestly, I would be more concerned if you did *not* have that reaction.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

tech-novelist said:


> If you want someone to be honest with you, you can't shame them when they tell you their innermost feelings.
> 
> I would think that was obvious, but apparently it isn't.
> 
> In other words, you are way over the line here. He hasn't done anything wrong.


Okay everyone keeps saying I shamed him. HE FELT ASHAMED ON HIS OWN. I had no idea till the end of the night. He felt ashamed because it hurt me and he couldnt understand why. I did not sit and point my finger at him and scream till my face was red and beat him down saying he should be ashamed of himself. I expressed my concern. I explained issues and scenarios that upset me and made me feel uncomfortable. If it is shaming to be honest and express how you feel about something than you are shaming me for my feelings and opinions and doing the same thing you are accusing me of. My husband has a mind of his own. My opinions may be strong and my pain may be real but I tell him I am grateful for his honesty and opinion. It might take me a day to process his words and put it together, but I never withhold my wrong doings and act like I am above him or his opinions. I should not feel shame for being upset about his admittance to sexual thoughts of girls in the teenage underage mark. It is called underage for a reason. He is 36 next month. He is old enough to control things. If I have to control my thoughts and behaviors than he does too. I have traveled a long road to the maturity of which I handle my feelings due to my PTSD because of therapy. This includes thoughts, actions, behaviors, mannerisms, I have behavioral cognitive therapy because I am autistic. It takes a lot for me to process someone elses needs and I am determined to learn and understand as I go. Illegal is illegal. our mind is a powerful thing, without our mind we are just a beating heart, bones and skin. People live in there heads because it is better and it can feel so real. So sex with a 15 year old in your head should not be high fived or seen as not wrong. This is my opinion and these are your opinions. I dont understand how people think being honest means it wont hurt anyone and that person has no right to be upset because it was honest. Thats not how things process for me. If what you say hurts me, I will tell you. If what I say hurts you, I would hope you tell me. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean no one will get hurt. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean we are acquitted of all wrong or validated for all right. It is communication, it goes back and fourth and around and around and if it doesn't than it builds up and monsters do form. I would hope he never closes up because this one time when he was honest it made me cry. Thats a stupid reason to keep secrets. I have told him truths that hurt him. Me bringing this concern to the surface hurt him and his answer hurt me. You know what though? We kept talking about it. Then the next day we both processed what each other said. Now we are figuring out how to cope on both sides. To many people are afraid of the truth and go on living lies and hide things. I am afraid of the truth but I am more afraid of lies and secrets I discover down the road. I am living that with my ex and it is not a good feeling.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Well, he probably isn't afraid to share with her, but he knows it's a stupid thing to do.
> 
> And now he knows she thinks he should view the Original Poster as not being an acceptable sexual object. She can be mistaken for someone under the age of 18. Therefore he should not view her as a sex object. He should abandon his sexual interest in the Original Poster, if he follows her paradigm. After all, he must stop considering any woman who could potentially be under the age of 18 to be a sexual creature.


I am confused as to why you have to be a bit cruel in this. I came here to get advice and seek information, not to be put down in a condecending way. You misread how I explained that part. The part about my body is not related to sexual images of young teens is my insecure fear and I feel ashamed to look how I do. I have a right to be a bit disgusted in the idea that someone could be with me because I look like a little girl. Though it was a thought. I have a bad past and thats where my mind took it. I did tell him out loud that I dont know how to feel about my body type if it is the same attraction as the younger girls. It was a fear and I recognize it might seem irrational and over reactive but it wouldnt be the first time it has happened. It is not the first time I was ashamed of my figure for sexual reasons. There is more, much deeper inside that I did not care to go into detail because I did not think I would recieve such passive aggressive comments as i admitted to knowing and seeking help for this too. I think it sucks that I am seen as so young. It is not something I asked for it is just how I was created. Now I am not sure how to feel about myself and it sucks. It is not a pleasure and something I am enjoying, going around and feeling grossed out by my own image. This part is definetely something I need help coming to terms with and it is not unnoticed that it is MY problem. Hence, I am seeing my therapist this week. Tomorrow actually. So I can feel like I can be sexual with my husband. 

I do want to express how you mentioned object and creature. I am a person. Not an object or creature. I am a human being.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> In her original post *she gave no indication that her husband was aware of the age* of any of the females he was looking at.
> 
> I asked some questions about the context where the "looking" took place however the OP has not answered my questions.


Internet Explorer would not let me respond so I had to get Firefox on my computer.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

jld said:


> I am not surprised you feel distant from him knowing that he has those thoughts about the underaged. I think that is a natural warning system in your, and I hope most women's, psyches.
> 
> Honestly, I would be more concerned if you did *not* have that reaction.


He is being very understanding and just hopes he can talk to someone to help understand his point of view and mine. I am doing the same on my end. Tomorrow I go to therapy. I will post what my therapist response is. Thank you for your comments through out. This is not as black and white to me as many people on this post make it seem. I forgive him for being human, I dont hate him for having thoughts. I just dont feel right about it right now.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Okay everyone keeps saying I shamed him. HE FELT ASHAMED ON HIS OWN. I had no idea till the end of the night. He felt ashamed because it hurt me and he couldnt understand why. I did not sit and point my finger at him and scream till my face was red and beat him down saying he should be ashamed of himself. I expressed my concern. I explained issues and scenarios that upset me and made me feel uncomfortable. If it is shaming to be honest and express how you feel about something than you are shaming me for my feelings and opinions and doing the same thing you are accusing me of. My husband has a mind of his own. My opinions may be strong and my pain may be real but I tell him I am grateful for his honesty and opinion. It might take me a day to process his words and put it together, but I never withhold my wrong doings and act like I am above him or his opinions. I should not feel shame for being upset about his admittance to sexual thoughts of girls in the teenage underage mark. It is called underage for a reason. He is 36 next month. He is old enough to control things. If I have to control my thoughts and behaviors than he does too. I have traveled a long road to the maturity of which I handle my feelings due to my PTSD because of therapy. This includes thoughts, actions, behaviors, mannerisms, I have behavioral cognitive therapy because I am autistic. It takes a lot for me to process someone elses needs and I am determined to learn and understand as I go. Illegal is illegal. our mind is a powerful thing, without our mind we are just a beating heart, bones and skin. People live in there heads because it is better and it can feel so real. So sex with a 15 year old in your head should not be high fived or seen as not wrong. This is my opinion and these are your opinions. I dont understand how people think being honest means it wont hurt anyone and that person has no right to be upset because it was honest. Thats not how things process for me. If what you say hurts me, I will tell you. If what I say hurts you, I would hope you tell me. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean no one will get hurt. Just because we tell the truth doesnt mean we are acquitted of all wrong or validated for all right. It is communication, it goes back and fourth and around and around and if it doesn't than it builds up and monsters do form. I would hope he never closes up because this one time when he was honest it made me cry. Thats a stupid reason to keep secrets. I have told him truths that hurt him. Me bringing this concern to the surface hurt him and his answer hurt me. You know what though? We kept talking about it. Then the next day we both processed what each other said. Now we are figuring out how to cope on both sides. To many people are afraid of the truth and go on living lies and hide things. I am afraid of the truth but I am more afraid of lies and secrets I discover down the road. I am living that with my ex and it is not a good feeling.


Please do not take any responses here personally, OP. We are just a community of random internet strangers, all of us limited by our own perspective. 

Feel free to ignore anything that does not seem helpful to you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> He is being very understanding and just hopes he can talk to someone to help understand his point of view and mine. I am doing the same on my end. Tomorrow I go to therapy. I will post what my therapist response is. Thank you for your comments through out. This is not as black and white to me as many people on this post make it seem. I forgive him for being human, I dont hate him for having thoughts. I just dont feel right about it right now.


Of course you don't. And that's why you are right to bring it up and talk about it, openly and honestly. Very healthy.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

manwithnoname said:


> Ok this post and the one just before is a little ridiculous in my opinion. I remember reading that most men, in a split second, evaluate females for whether or not they would have sex with them.
> 
> It doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go an jack off thinking about them.
> 
> How about you? Are you hypocritical? Have you ever checked out a guy and thought about him or a celebrity while with your husband or masturbating? Of course you'll deny it if it was true.


You read that? My husband said thats what he has done his whole life. That he glances and knows if he would have sex with them and thats where the 3 second porn clip comes into play. Its in and then its out he says. I had no idea there was something written about that. I will research it then. Thank you. No my husband does say he has never brought any one person home in his head and he said sex is all about me and him and there is no reason to ever think of anyone else during sex when he is overly satisfied with me as his partner. So that is always something to be happy about. Doesnt make it any less painful when other ingredients are added but I am willing to understand if there is more to read about it. I have masturbated to other people, but in past relationships. I left those. I do not feel the need to with my husband because I am more than satisfied with him as well. I am not fond of male bodies, his is the first body I have ever been aroused by so he has a huge benefit and he is front and center in my fantasies. Again, the problem is the underage part. Not the fact he is thinking of other women. It was a hurtful thing to hear a year ago, but I have been finding my ways through my insecurities about it. Now it adding the underage it has resurfaced in a different way. Please just know this is about my feelings and thoughts, not just his actions and others. Thank you.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

jld said:


> Please do not take any responses here personally, OP. We are just a community of random internet strangers, all of us limited by our own perspective.
> 
> Feel free to ignore anything that does not seem helpful to you.


I am not angry. I am passionate. I like details so I try to give much as well. I have been very grateful for all negative and positive remarks. It has caused much thinking of me as a person and also how I want to go on understanding my husband.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

alexm said:


> I'll go out on a limb and guess that she has not done this while thinking of an underage boy, no.
> 
> I think (almost) all of us have had thoughts about other people from time to time. It's perfectly normal, IMO. Even those who do not believe it's okay, such as diana7, have to consciously look away, or otherwise train themselves not to look.
> 
> ...


I actually really appreciate the way you wrote this. My concern is the underage part and looking back. Not just glancing. Its that "nope" that he doesnt do at all. I am also concerned about how I feel about it which is why therapy is a must for me too. I look at women, but I know enough to do the "nope" part. Thank you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In the end we cant help who or what we see, but we can help what we let our eyes and thoughts linger on. We have control over what we look at and what think about.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> If that was all she was doing I would agree .
> 
> She is now enlisting the help of a therapist to show him why his thoughts are wrong and need to change.
> 
> She is not only noting how it bothers her, but taking action. @Herschel has this nailed.


No no, I am involving a therapist so I UNDERSTAND him and why I FEEL the way I do. He is going to therapy to see if it is something he should be concerned about and if it is how he can stop it. If it is not then how he can help me cope with it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Just because you are married doesn't mean you are glued to the hip. It's unhealthy to share every single thing about you with anyone, that includes your spouse. Fantasies are just random thoughts and should stay that way. If the person acts on them, that is different.

We ALL have Fantasies of all types, most are not sexual for the most part. You don't and shouldn't share them. Are you going to share every freaking random thought you have with your spouse, of course not. That would be ridiculous. 

Her husband made an obvious mistake by telling her this. She may think it was right, but it most certainly isn't mandatory or it shouldn't even be expected. It was a mistake. I hope he learned his lesson. His random thoughts bothered you. He had no right to do this to you because his "confession" brought to light some of your past hurts and triggered your personal fears. Those are yours and have nothing to do with his random thoughts. 

You need IC, he does not. You kept what he fantasized about over a year ago and put your own spin on his "fantasies" when you noticed him eyeing more than once under age girls. That is what happens when we are privy to others personal thoughts. We don't mean to but we judge, and we put our own biase into the mix. It is wrong. You allowing him to think he may have a problem based on your bias is wrong. You accepting that he seek counseling for what you pointed out is very wrong. 

It is going to back fire on you. If your counselor is worth any thing, he/she will let you know that your judgements and biases to random thoughts just served to create a ridge in your relationship. You have problems. He had none until you put your spin on his random thoughts. Can you at least see This?


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

EasyPartner said:


> CD, all else being equal, count yourself lucky with a man that transparant.
> 
> Most people have preferences. Young-looking, thin, fat, blonde, dark, muscular, etc. You are petite and young-looking and that is exactly how he likes women. Unless they are blind, people will look at other people and find them attractive or not. 17 or 18, doesn't matter. As you said, it's not like he's going to hump any woman/girl of the same type, under age or not.
> 
> So really, give the man a break. You are exactly his type. And he's transparent about it - too much for you taste, as it seems to be.


The underage part bothers me. I will talk to my therapist about my own issues. It does not mean what he is doing is wrong or right either. He will go to therapy to learn if not having limits or boundaries on his thoughts are healthy or unhealthy. He will go to learn how to control it if it is not. He will go to learn to help me cope if it is. I do not like feeling this way. I already know I am very lucky to have him. As far as giving him a break, I have nothing to give him a break from. I have not been nasty or uncivil, I have not smacked him away because he has touched me and I am disgusted, I am not being dramatic in anyway. If I was, yeah, I would need to give him a break. As far as this goes, all it does from an outside view, is make me a bit more distant physically. I feel unsure and uncomfortable. I still smile at him. I still love him. I still laugh with him. I cant shake the underage thing. Not yet. Its a trigger and until I figure out what to do about this, then I will just have to deal with controlling my thoughts as to not upset anyone, especially him. And he has to learn to control his thoughts too. Too much for my taste? I dont understand what that means when I have not ignored I do have my own insecurities. Honesty doesnt mean you get an out of jail free card. It just means you are a good person.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> You read that? My husband said thats what he has done his whole life. That he glances and knows if he would have sex with them and thats where the 3 second porn clip comes into play. Its in and then its out he says. I had no idea there was something written about that. I will research it then. Thank you. No my husband does say he has never brought any one person home in his head and he said sex is all about me and him and there is no reason to ever think of anyone else during sex when he is overly satisfied with me as his partner. So that is always something to be happy about. Doesnt make it any less painful when other ingredients are added but I am willing to understand if there is more to read about it. I have masturbated to other people, but in past relationships. I left those. I do not feel the need to with my husband because I am more than satisfied with him as well. I am not fond of male bodies, his is the first body I have ever been aroused by so he has a huge benefit and he is front and center in my fantasies. Again, the problem is the underage part. Not the fact he is thinking of other women. It was a hurtful thing to hear a year ago, but I have been finding my ways through my insecurities about it. Now it adding the underage it has resurfaced in a different way. Please just know this is about my feelings and thoughts, not just his actions and others. Thank you.


My hypocrite comment wasn't directed at you. Is the 3 second porn clip with 70's style porn music? I guess that's irrelevant.

If he knows they're underage then that may be a bit creepy. Actually, that is creepy. I'm hoping he doesn't realize they're as young as they are.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I cant shake the underage thing. Not yet. Its a trigger and until I figure out what to do about this, then I will just have to deal with controlling my thoughts as to not upset anyone, especially him. And he has to learn to control his thoughts too.


You are lumping two very distinct things together, and I believe this will create some internal confusion.

One does not completely control their thoughts. One does, however, completely control their actions.

He sees younger females and his mind thinks they are attractive, but _does not_ move on it.

You think he is also attracted to females that may be too young, and you _do_ move on it. 

Don't you see you are trying to get your husband to own your trigger for you? We are all responsible for our own triggers. 

He _does not_ need to learn to control his thoughts. That is simply not possible. What you can expect him to do is control his actions. Checking out the attractive females, etc., is within the realm of control. What he thinks or feels is not. Please...PLEASE...make sure you are drawing that distinction.

Action control is boundaries. Thought or feeling control is emotional abuse.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Just because you are married doesn't mean you are glued to the hip. It's unhealthy to share every single thing about you with anyone, that includes your spouse. Fantasies are just random thoughts and should stay that way. If the person acts on them, that is different.
> 
> We ALL have Fantasies of all types, most are not sexual for the most part. You don't and shouldn't share them. Are you going to share every freaking random thought you have with your spouse, of course not. That would be ridiculous.
> 
> ...


See I do not understand why people have to be so harsh when someone is just simply upset or uncomfortable. I did not put a spin on it. I asked him and he answered. He admitted to sexual thoughts of underage girls and that if it is in his head than it shouldnt be a problem because he wont act on it. If I put my own spin on it then I would have made up an entire scenario and just attacked him. I did not do this. The only thing I spoke of that was not related to the argument is MY PROBLEM that I felt sick about my own body type. I got instantly uncomfortable and decided I needed to be ashamed of having a young body type because it means it is linked to underage. I admitted this was MY PERCEPTION OF MY PROBLEM. All you are saying is I am wrong, I am wrong I am wrong without even knowing how I ACTUALLY am going through the motions of all of this. I did not dig into his fantasy world. I expressed a concern, as his wife, that has children he is a steph father too, I explained why I was uncomfortable with his honesty about how I have a daughter that will one day be a teen. As a mother, I have a right to protect myself and my kids even in a ridiculous hair of a second of bad thought. It was not wrong to share his truth with me. If you think lying is ok just because it doesnt make anyone upset IN THAT MOMENT, then you are just as troubled. I never said I did not have insecurities. I said I was already seeking counseling. The counseling is to help me understand why I am feeling this way. Not for me to belittle my husband or to say I am right. I WANT to know if it is wrong or if it is ok for him to feel these. I dont want to go on assuming. This of all posts hurt the most because it shows how people can think the worst about someone, even if that someone is reaching out for help. How cruel people can be instead of just offering insight at a humane level. I have had a very rough past and if its not his fault for having these ideas, then cut me some slack for having triggers from my tramatic past. I am a good person. My husband is amazing and I would NEVER want to hurt him or make him feel bad but I wont lie about how I feel just because it hurts him. We do share our thoughts. Everyday we sit out on the back of the truck and we go over our days. We start from the beginning and go till we are tired. It is something we created randomly. It is a routine we fell into because we enjoy hearing each others voices and how each others day goes. We dont spend nearly enough time on the t.v or phones as most and we love it. We do not stay attached at the hip. He works long days and I am home alone with my daughter. He goes out with his friends and I stay in and enjoy what little alone time I ever get. I trust him on the outside but I cant help what he thought about put a sting in my stomach. We actually got into a bit of a discussion last week and he discussed about how he doesnt get to spend nearly as much time with me as he wants. We had to cancel a movie night and I told him if he wanted to see the movie he could go and I can watch it when it comes out. I didnt want him to miss it because of me. He was upset because that was the whole point, was to go with me. He still has yet to see the movie, because he wants to be with me. So please, keep the messages less attacking. I was upset and did not quite write or read out what I wrote. I do have a past, yes I need to work on it, yes it triggered me, yes he is awesome, yes i still think its disgusting to have sex with underage girls in your mind, yes it still makes me uncomfortable, but please do not put me down in the process. I believe I have praised him enough to show its not him I am upset about. I do not think it hurts for therapy to be used in this even if it proves me wrong, I dont care if I am wrong. I just want to love on my husband and to be all in like I was a few days before I learned this information. Now we both can learn something new about life, processes and coping. 

I never told him he was wrong. I voiced why it hurt me. Why I felt disgusted. I never, not once, said HEY YOU ARE WRONG. Some of your words, I can learn from and again, all I can do is try to be a good wife. Asking questions and getting answers and working on solutions is part of a marriage. I have been in therapy for 15 years. I know how the situation would go if it was specifically about him looking at women in general. It is not, it is much more than that. I hope you can come to see that I am here because I am trying to understand all angles. Not so people can back me up and be on my side. Thank you.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> You need IC, he does not. You kept what he fantasized about over a year ago and put your own spin on his "fantasies" when you noticed him eyeing more than once under age girls. That is what happens when we are privy to others personal thoughts. We don't mean to but we judge, and we put our own biase into the mix. It is wrong. You allowing him to think he may have a problem based on your bias is wrong. You accepting that he seek counseling for what you pointed out is very wrong.
> 
> It is going to back fire on you. If your counselor is worth any thing, he/she will let you know that your judgements and biases to random thoughts just served to create a ridge in your relationship. You have problems. He had none until you put your spin on his random thoughts. Can you at least see This?


This was spot on. 

There's a problem though: I guarantee it's not going to backfire in the way you say. OP's therapist is bound to turn her H in as a pedophile, because he thought some girl looked cute. Not because he wanted to act on it. Not because he tried to get her to follow him somewhere. Because he had a physical reaction to a physical stimuli. 

He's ****ed.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> You are lumping two very distinct things together, and I believe this will create some internal confusion.
> 
> One does not completely control their thoughts. One does, however, completely control their actions.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have been in therapy for 15 years. You can control your thoughts. You can control your behaviors. I have been taught this for many years for many different occassions. When you have PTSD a lot of it is in your head. You have to control how you think of yourself. Control how you feel about yourself and other people. You come up with sayings and plans to keep the thoughts out. To change their course. If I did not learn to do this, I would not be who I am today. I would be a crazy mess in my head and in complete damage mode. Do not say it is not possible when I am proof and many other survivors are proof of this. You dont have to act on your thoughts, that is a physical and mental control. You do not have to think the thoughts you do, that is a mental control. I understand attraction is not a way of choice, it is a choice to how far you go with those actions. Internal or externally. I cant CHANGE how he feels about things, no. I can help him understand how I feel though. He cant change how I feel, but He can help me understand how he feels. Sometimes people are not trying to control. Sometimes its just trying to get through the hard parts of life and understanding one another deeper is not going to hurt anyone. He knows my past, which is why he was looking into counseling. I didnt drive him to it, it was him trying to help his wife not hurt. It is what you do when someone you love is in pain, no matter how ridiculous it seems to them. He admitted he did not understand and it was silly to him but a bridge is what we DONT want, and I am willing to go in and be told I am wrong, if it makes this pain and discomfort go away. He is my world and understanding him and helping myself cope are very important. In all this, it doesnt hurt to put cards out on the table if it can lead to a good hand.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Kivlor said:


> This was spot on.
> 
> There's a problem though: I guarantee it's not going to backfire in the way you say. OP's therapist is bound to turn her H in as a pedophile, because he thought some girl looked cute. Not because he wanted to act on it. Not because he tried to get her to follow him somewhere. Because he had a physical reaction to a physical stimuli.
> 
> He's ****ed.


You think I am the drama queen. You know nothing about me or my therapist. She is very non bias. She has NO problem telling me I need to change something or work on something and pointing out anything that is damaging to me. She is a great professional and keeps me in check. She knows me from the beginning. She knows the bond my husband and I have. There is no need to assume. I did not just straight out attack my husband on here, if I did I could understand why you would think thats the information she would receive, but indeed, that is not the case. I was upset when I wrote this, I was a bit scared and uncomfortable and I did not look back and rewrite or reread so I do not even remember how it sounds. This is all an unfair assumption in general. Not all wives who are triggered to turn to online help, are looking to berate their husbands and be told they are right.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I would much rather him share and I know than it be a secret I find out years later. He did admit to looking at underage. I am telling you what we spoke of that goes on in his head. I am not thinking this is what he is doing. He told me this is how it plays out in his head. I am not making my on version of what he thinks.. other than my part about w I FEEL about my body type now. That's my opinion though.


Your reaction to him sharing is going to cause him to not share. 

He sounds like a normal guy. He thought he could talk to you about his inner most feelings. Your reaction is telling him he can't.

I think it is normal for a guy to see an attractive woman and maybe have thoughts about sex. I think it is normal for a guy to see a young girl and think the same thing. It might also include a thought like, "wow, she's hot .... wonder how old she is ... could be 22 or could be 15 ... scary". Doesn't make the person a pedophile.

Don't women have similar thoughts. Maybe more from reading 'romance' novels that from seeing someone hot. 

Your husband seems totally taken by you. He said as much (even though he said it poorly) when he said you are the only one for him. I think it is a shame if you hold his thoughts against him.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

manwithnoname said:


> My hypocrite comment wasn't directed at you. Is the 3 second porn clip with 70's style porn music? I guess that's irrelevant.
> 
> If he knows they're underage then that may be a bit creepy. Actually, that is creepy. I'm hoping he doesn't realize they're as young as they are.


Yes, I know it wasnt directed at me, just willing to share is all  It kinda made me smile when you talked about the 70's style porn music. It takes a stress off how serious some are through out this post. I have learned so much. I have gotten upset and cried and laughed and smiled. This is what I needed. That is actually the humor my husband and I have. We throw things out like that all the time. Especially when things are serious. Its why all this hurts so much. I feel mad and disappointed and I feel mad at myself and confused. 

Sometimes he knows, sometimes he doesnt.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> You think I am the drama queen. You know nothing about me or my therapist. She is very non bias. She has NO problem telling me I need to change something or work on something and pointing out anything that is damaging to me. She is a great professional and keeps me in check. She knows me from the beginning. She knows the bond my husband and I have. There is no need to assume. I did not just straight out attack my husband on here, if I did I could understand why you would think thats the information she would receive, but indeed, that is not the case. I was upset when I wrote this, I was a bit scared and uncomfortable and I did not look back and rewrite or reread so I do not even remember how it sounds. This is all an unfair assumption in general. Not all wives who are triggered to turn to online help, are looking to berate their husbands and be told they are right.


I think you're narcissistic from your posts. I don't know you, so that's a snap judgement, based on extremely limited information. I readily admit that. I make this judgement because you held against your H that he thinks of other women sexually. That's indicative of some extreme narcissism. Further, you're trying to police not only the thoughts that your H has, but physical reactions to physical stimuli that are wired through millennia of human history. A narcissist would try to control such things. Of course, really, this isn't necessarily narcissism, but typical female behavior.

I don't think your therapist will be non-biased for several reasons.
1. She's your therapist, and has spent time working with you.
2. She's paid to help you. Not your H.
3. She's a woman, and women have been demonstrated to have a strong in-group preference for other women by nature. They have a natural bias against men. 
4. She's a woman and culturally we teach woman = good; man = bad.
5. We are talking about something that is extremely touchy. 

She might break the mold, but just off the top of my head, your H has those 5 things going against him. 

I'm just living in the real world here. If it hurts your feelings, well, it's not my intent, but c'est la vie.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

SadSamIAm said:


> Your reaction to him sharing is going to cause him to not share.
> 
> He sounds like a normal guy. He thought he could talk to you about his inner most feelings. Your reaction is telling him he can't.
> 
> ...


I do feel ashamed of feeling the way I do. I am not holding it against him. We laugh and hug and smile and talk, I am just a bit more distant because my trigger comes and goes. He knows I am going back and fourth on how I feel and how I want to react. I am not pushing him away. We just havent touched as much in the last two days. We are constant touchers so its been hard. One minute I want to hug and love on him like I always do, the next I am sick and angry and dont understand again. The only time I showed my discontent is during our argument, that ended with a calm talk and sleep. I do not think its ok and I know there is more on my side than his. Doesnt make it any easier to deal with.

It was a question I asked him. He didnt just flat out tell me randomly. It was a concern I discussed with him. People disagree, people get hurt, it doesnt mean you shouldnt or cant talk to that person ever again. I am beginning to see thats most peoples idea though throughout this post. My husband and I disagree. I get stuck on things and I told him this from the beginning. I told him if ever there is a moment it gets to much to please point it out. There are things I cant control, being autistic I have to constantly learn to rewire my brain, loving my kids, family and husband are worth that.

I admit I had thoughts in past relationships but I am bisexual so my thoughts are about women. I do not read romance novels. I am more into WW2 and Criminal Intent/Psychology. There is not much fantasizing I can do with that. Maybe that is also a part of the problem. I associate my unhappiness with him being unhappy because he is thinking of something I wouldnt do if I were happy. Still, the underage thing will bother me until I talk to a therapist.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Of course you can change how you process and deal with thoughts. But answer this...can you completely stop the thoughts on how you feel about yourself? That initial thought that you are not good enough, not pretty enough, not strong enough? No, you cannot. However, you can learn techniques to help deal with it. 

In this, you have proven my point. 



Cognitivedissonance said:


> Yes, I have been in therapy for 15 years. You can control your thoughts. You can control your behaviors. I have been taught this for many years for many different occassions. When you have PTSD a lot of it is in your head. You have to control how you think of yourself. Control how you feel about yourself and other people. You come up with sayings and plans to keep the thoughts out. To change their course. If I did not learn to do this, I would not be who I am today. I would be a crazy mess in my head and in complete damage mode. Do not say it is not possible when I am proof and many other survivors are proof of this. You dont have to act on your thoughts, that is a physical and mental control. You do not have to think the thoughts you do, that is a mental control. I understand attraction is not a way of choice, it is a choice to how far you go with those actions. Internal or externally. I cant CHANGE how he feels about things, no. I can help him understand how I feel though. He cant change how I feel, but He can help me understand how he feels. Sometimes people are not trying to control. Sometimes its just trying to get through the hard parts of life and understanding one another deeper is not going to hurt anyone. He knows my past, which is why he was looking into counseling. I didnt drive him to it, it was him trying to help his wife not hurt. It is what you do when someone you love is in pain, no matter how ridiculous it seems to them. He admitted he did not understand and it was silly to him but a bridge is what we DONT want, and I am willing to go in and be told I am wrong, if it makes this pain and discomfort go away. He is my world and understanding him and helping myself cope are very important. In all this, it doesnt hurt to put cards out on the table if it can lead to a good hand.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> See I do not understand why people have to be so harsh when someone is just simply upset or uncomfortable.
> 
> ....If I put my own spin on it then I would have made up an entire scenario and just attacked him. I did not do this. The only thing I spoke of that was not related to the argument is MY PROBLEM that I felt sick about my own body type. I got instantly uncomfortable and decided I needed to be ashamed of having a young body type because it means it is linked to underage. I admitted this was MY PERCEPTION OF MY PROBLEM. All you are saying is I am wrong, I am wrong I am wrong without even knowing how I ACTUALLY am going through the motions of all of this. I
> 
> ...


First, I would like to apologize to you. Your story was much more complex than your first post let on.

In my first post, I said it was a bit of a "tough love" response, but even tough love is based on caring about the person and their problems. Tough love is not cruel, but it is also not enabling.

My wife built up walls to stop communication about sex that nearly destroyed my marriage. With the help of a great sex therapist, a lot of introspection and change we were able to save our marriage. That is probably why I would still urge you to be careful in how you react to his honesty and openness. 

You are not a bad person. You have issues that you are responsibly dealing with. Your husband needs you to teach him about how your past issues can be triggered by actions on his part that others might view differently. 

I wish you and your H luck in working through things.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Something to keep in mind is that women are sexually mature considerably before 18, and in many cultures throughout history there was nothing unusual about a 15 year old getting married and having sex with her new husband. 

As a society we have decided that it is not OK for adults to have sex with people under 18. That is fine - there are a lot of very good reasons to have those rules in place. What it doesn't change is that girls under 18 are still physically attractive to many men. 

What matters is that they don't act on that attraction, in the same way that getting angry doesn't give you the right to hit someone over the head with a club even if your ancestors might have done so.



Being attracted to young sexually mature women is the natural response, suppressing that is a societal rule. Its a good rule, but its not the natural behavior.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Kivlor said:


> I think you're narcissistic from your posts. I don't know you, so that's a snap judgement, based on extremely limited information. I readily admit that. I make this judgement because you held against your H that he thinks of other women sexually. That's indicative of some extreme narcissism. Further, you're trying to police not only the thoughts that your H has, but physical reactions to physical stimuli that are wired through millennia of human history. A narcissist would try to control such things. Of course, really, this isn't necessarily narcissism, but typical female behavior.
> 
> I don't think your therapist will be non-biased for several reasons.
> 1. She's your therapist, and has spent time working with you.
> ...


I am scared of his thoughts because I have a hard past. The underage thing bothers me. Its funny you think I am a Narcissist only because PTSD and Boarderline Personality Disorders are closely linked. I know this because I read psychology and also my childrens father is a Narcissist. A lot of my insecurities come from him. I did for a long time fight myself on wether or not I was a Narcissist near the last year of him and I being together because I developed survival traits. These are being worked on at the moment and I have come a very very long way. Trust me, Narcissists do not seek help. They only pretend to if it makes their partner return. My childrens dad did just this. The year I met my husband he did the hoovering and baiting and every time I went back to him the gaslighting and abuse started all over again. Chris saw everything, he read every text, he heard all recordings, I hid nothing from him because I did not want him getting stuck with crazy. He made me stronger, my therapist helped me get stronger and now I am mostly okay. I sleep and think I am awake, I scream randomly because triggers pop up in my head out of no where, I got fearful and uncomfortable about my husband thinking sexually of underage women. I found out my ex fed off my fear of csa and he put up things to get me to be paranoid. I found child pornography on his compute when my son was 3 months old. He denied and said I was crazy and I didnt see it. I did. He would lock the bathroom door when washing our son. He would storm out of a room when my son would say "daddy dont do that" and I dealt with that for years. I didnt know if I was going crazy and making things up or if I was seeing what was really going on. It went on and off over years. Not to mention the other abuse. I lost so much weight and didnt sleep. I tried to kill myself and he raped me while I OD'ed. I have trouble with my feelings and my thoughts as well, which is how I know it can be controlled (thoughts) I have dealt with so much cognitive dissonance that I have a hard time seeing things and feeling things. 

So no, I am not a Narcissist but I do have reasons for fear and insecurity. I hope this gave you a bit more insight. This is only the last 6 years. I know only I can control how I feel and think. But for now, I am uncomfortable till I can have help sorting it out.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I am not shaming him and *I told him his thoughts were boarderline pedophilic.* With how defensive and protective you got of my husband without actually assuming I am majority of the time, a very rational wife who seeks understanding not punishment or belittlement, I would think you have had a bad experience with this sometime or another of someone accusing you or maybe someone you know. Yes I have issues with my childhood and sex. He knows this and this is why he has agreed to get help. I am uncomfortable with his thoughts. I do not believe he would ever ever act on them. My concern was if I was overreacting to being uncomfortable about thoughts. Not overreacting and thinking he is going to touch someone.


Do you understand how hurtful (to your husband) and over-the-top the above bolded statement is? I am not defending/protecting your husband rather I am trying to get you to calm down before you do damage to your marriage.

The picture you have painted of your husband’s behavior and thoughts has escalated in this thread; you keep adding more bits of information. You seem oblivious to your own behavior toward your husband and what you are posting, I don’t know why, perhaps it’s because you have become so upset over this subject that you do not remember what you posted? Maybe it’s interpretation? 

Yes, your own thoughts on this appear to be spiraling out of control to the point where you admitted that it is affecting your relationship with your husband and not wanting to be touched by him. That is why I do not think TAM can be of service to you. I think instead you need to discuss this with your therapist who already knows you and your situation. Please stop ruminating on this and talk to your therapist, let him or her help you.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Something to keep in mind is that women are sexually mature considerably before 18, and in many cultures throughout history there was nothing unusual about a 15 year old getting married and having sex with her new husband.
> 
> As a society we have decided that it is not OK for adults to have sex with people under 18. That is fine - there are a lot of very good reasons to have those rules in place. What it doesn't change is that girls under 18 are still physically attractive to many men.
> 
> ...


This is true but back then the age for life was much younger. We live much longer lives now. I get that acting on actions is worst, but I do not understand why you would purposely think its okay to have sex with an underage girl in your head, when it is illegal out in the world around you. To me it just seems morally wrong to cross those lines if you were raised that it was wrong to do so in real life. I was 15 once, I was not ready to have sex. I did though. I am a very sexual person. I am glad he is not going to act on them. It still doesnt make it easy to not be sickened by the fact it was something he found no problem thinking about. I am going to therapy to understand my side and his. Thank you for your insight.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I am scared of his thoughts because I have a hard past. The underage thing bothers me. Its funny you think I am a Narcissist only because PTSD and Boarderline Personality Disorders are closely linked. I know this because I read psychology and also my childrens father is a Narcissist. A lot of my insecurities come from him. I did for a long time fight myself on wether or not I was a Narcissist near the last year of him and I being together because I developed survival traits. These are being worked on at the moment and I have come a very very long way. Trust me, Narcissists do not seek help. They only pretend to if it makes their partner return. My childrens dad did just this. The year I met my husband he did the hoovering and baiting and every time I went back to him the gaslighting and abuse started all over again. Chris saw everything, he read every text, he heard all recordings, I hid nothing from him because I did not want him getting stuck with crazy. He made me stronger, my therapist helped me get stronger and now I am mostly okay. I sleep and think I am awake, I scream randomly because triggers pop up in my head out of no where, I got fearful and uncomfortable about my husband thinking sexually of underage women. I found out my ex fed off my fear of csa and he put up things to get me to be paranoid. I found child pornography on his compute when my son was 3 months old. He denied and said I was crazy and I didnt see it. I did. He would lock the bathroom door when washing our son. He would storm out of a room when my son would say "daddy dont do that" and I dealt with that for years. I didnt know if I was going crazy and making things up or if I was seeing what was really going on. It went on and off over years. Not to mention the other abuse. I lost so much weight and didnt sleep. I tried to kill myself and he raped me while I OD'ed. I have trouble with my feelings and my thoughts as well, which is how I know it can be controlled (thoughts) I have dealt with so much cognitive dissonance that I have a hard time seeing things and feeling things.
> 
> 
> 
> So no, I am not a Narcissist but I do have reasons for fear and insecurity. I hope this gave you a bit more insight. This is only the last 6 years. I know only I can control how I feel and think. But for now, I am uncomfortable till I can have help sorting it out.




Sweetie...I think YOU have a lot of issues that YOU need to get a grip on. I am CSA as well and I can tell you that I've been there. The tough love part is that it is something that YOU have to get through. There is no man on earth that can take it away FOR you. Stop deflecting on the one you cherish most!

How about therapy for you. Discuss if she and you think he needs therapy. THEN suggest therapy for him. I think he's doing it now because he LOVES you and wants to do anything he can to make you happy. Rejoice in it!

Most of all, you CAN let it go and you will one day. When the time is right for YOU. 

<3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> All you are saying is I am wrong,* I did not dig into his fantasy world. I expressed a concern, as his wife, that has children he is a steph father too, I explained why I was uncomfortable with his honesty about how I have a daughter that will one day be a teen. As a mother, I have a right to protect myself and my kids even in a ridiculous hair of a second of bad thought. It was not wrong to share his truth with me. If you think lying is ok just because it doesnt make anyone upset IN THAT MOMENT, then you are just as troubled.*


Well sadly you are wrong and I am not restating it to hurt you, but for you to own what is yours and that is really all. He did not lie! He simply made you privy to his very personal and inner random thoughts. You are making a mountain out of a mow hill in all honesty. 

You are clearly very upset with his indiscretion about HIS random thoughts. He should of kept those thoughts to himself. It was a huge mistake on his part and by now he probably knows it all too well. It Was A Mistake, and Not A Lie: big difference you seem to think they are one and the same. 

Your triggers are yours to own and have nothing to do with him. You have a right to protect yourself and your child indeed, but not for something that triggers you and only you. He did nothing for you to assume that he may hurt his step daughter in any way now or in the future. That is crazy even for a split second.  He has done nothing to merit that. Please at least own that those triggers are you over reacting for whatever reasons happened to you in the past. Your past is yours and he has nothing to do with that. Don't let your past bleed into your present or your future. It is not healthy. 15 years of therapy should have at least taught you to know the difference between a lie and overreacting due to your very personal triggers!

I know a thing or two about therapy too; as a patient, a parent to children needing therapy and my field of work before I retired as well. No decent therapist will allow you to accept a trigger as truth. That is what you are doing. Please let us know how your therapist will see what you are stating here and if you honestly should blame your husband for his random thoughts and associate them with your daughter. That is spinning things way out of proportion. Can you at least see that possibility? 

Please understand that I do see your pain and concern, but I am an outsider looking in. I have no emotional attachment to your story. I only read what you post. Your posts tell me you are triggering really badly and that is not in any way your husband's fault. Your triggers and your fears are solely responsible for your insecurities.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> Do you understand how hurtful (to your husband) and over-the-top the above bolded statement is? I am not defending/protecting your husband rather I am trying to get you to calm down before you do damage to your marriage.
> 
> The picture you have painted of your husband’s behavior and thoughts has escalated in this thread; you keep adding more bits of information. You seem oblivious to your own behavior toward your husband and what you are posting, I don’t know why, perhaps it’s because you have become so upset over this subject that you do not remember what you posted? Maybe it’s interpretation?
> 
> Yes, your own thoughts on this appear to be spiraling out of control to the point where you admitted that it is affecting your relationship with your husband and not wanting to be touched by him. That is why I do not think TAM can be of service to you. I think instead you need to discuss this with your therapist who already knows you and your situation. Please stop ruminating on this and talk to your therapist, let him or her help you.


Listen I was just being honest about how I was upset at that moment. Nothing I said has changed but each person brings up different points. If anything I have admitted my fears and my insecurities and I have not changed the picture of my husband. I have written the same basic thing on everyone who insists the same basic thought. I add information if the person I am writing to says something that I need to elaborate on to what I think brings an understanding to the actual picture. I said that to him ONCE. I am not allowed to express thoughts? I am not allowed to say how I feel in a relationship? I do not understand how being honest and open with what you feel is something bad and everyone keeps assuming it is. I had ONE night of a crappy argument and everything thinks I am just HOLDING things over him. Yes it hurts that his touch makes me uncomfortable, but I dont act on it. Right, if I do not act on it than thats not hurting him? Thats what I am learning. TAM has helped because I am getting so many different views. I am also seeing how quickly people jump on me because I am upset about a thought, which is why I came on here. I wanted to know these things and thats whats happening right? I have actually changed my own tone throughout this post, I am not unaware of my own thoughts or behaviors or feelings because I have admitted I needed help. I not once said I did not and it was all his fault. Please, I am honestly confused by your comment.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Red Sonja said:


> Do you understand how hurtful (to your husband) and over-the-top the above bolded statement is? I am not defending/protecting your husband rather I am trying to get you to calm down before you do damage to your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




YES! Your appointment is tomorrow. Back off. Sleep on it. Go to your session prepared 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> This is true but back then the age for life was much younger. We live much longer lives now. I get that acting on actions is worst, but I do not understand why you would purposely think its okay to have sex with an underage girl in your head, when it is illegal out in the world around you. To me it just seems morally wrong to cross those lines if you were raised that it was wrong to do so in real life. I was 15 once, I was not ready to have sex. I did though. I am a very sexual person. I am glad he is not going to act on them. It still doesnt make it easy to not be sickened by the fact it was something he found no problem thinking about. I am going to therapy to understand my side and his. Thank you for your insight.


Your husband is normal.

If an attractive young girl walks by in tight clothes, showing some cleavage, it makes me uncomfortable. Like the previous poster said, the attraction is natural. Just because he has the thoughts, doesn't mean he has no problem thinking them. He probably wishes he didn't think them. I am sure it makes him uncomfortable as well. 

I think of a pedophile as someone who is attracted to pre-pubescent girls. Not ones that are say 15 (or even younger I guess) that are sexually mature for their ages.

The main message you should take from your husband is that you are the only one. He has thoughts, but he controls those thoughts. You are the only one for him. Don't ruin the closeness he shares with you with your insecurities.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Yes, I have been in therapy for 15 years. You can control your thoughts. You can control your behaviors. I have been taught this for many years for many different occassions. When you have PTSD a lot of it is in your head. You have to control how you think of yourself. Control how you feel about yourself and other people. You come up with sayings and plans to keep the thoughts out. To change their course. If I did not learn to do this, I would not be who I am today. I would be a crazy mess in my head and in complete damage mode. Do not say it is not possible when I am proof and many other survivors are proof of this. You dont have to act on your thoughts, that is a physical and mental control. You do not have to think the thoughts you do, that is a mental control. I understand attraction is not a way of choice, it is a choice to how far you go with those actions. Internal or externally. I cant CHANGE how he feels about things, no. I can help him understand how I feel though. He cant change how I feel, but He can help me understand how he feels. Sometimes people are not trying to control. Sometimes its just trying to get through the hard parts of life and understanding one another deeper is not going to hurt anyone. He knows my past, which is why he was looking into counseling. I didnt drive him to it, it was him trying to help his wife not hurt. It is what you do when someone you love is in pain, no matter how ridiculous it seems to them. He admitted he did not understand and it was silly to him but a bridge is what we DONT want, and I am willing to go in and be told I am wrong, if it makes this pain and discomfort go away. He is my world and understanding him and helping myself cope are very important. In all this, it doesnt hurt to put cards out on the table if it can lead to a good hand.


This is a really good post, OP.

You do not sound angry at all, btw. 

You do seem very open and vulnerable, though. And being vulnerable on the internet can be risky.

How about taking a break from TAM and just waiting until you can talk to your therapist?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I am scared of his thoughts because I have a hard past. The underage thing bothers me. Its funny you think I am a Narcissist only because PTSD and Boarderline Personality Disorders are closely linked. I know this because I read psychology and also my childrens father is a Narcissist. A lot of my insecurities come from him. I did for a long time fight myself on wether or not I was a Narcissist near the last year of him and I being together because I developed survival traits. These are being worked on at the moment and I have come a very very long way. Trust me, Narcissists do not seek help. They only pretend to if it makes their partner return. My childrens dad did just this. The year I met my husband he did the hoovering and baiting and every time I went back to him the gaslighting and abuse started all over again. Chris saw everything, he read every text, he heard all recordings, I hid nothing from him because I did not want him getting stuck with crazy. He made me stronger, my therapist helped me get stronger and now I am mostly okay. I sleep and think I am awake, I scream randomly because triggers pop up in my head out of no where, I got fearful and uncomfortable about my husband thinking sexually of underage women. I found out my ex fed off my fear of csa and he put up things to get me to be paranoid. I found child pornography on his compute when my son was 3 months old. He denied and said I was crazy and I didnt see it. I did. He would lock the bathroom door when washing our son. He would storm out of a room when my son would say "daddy dont do that" and I dealt with that for years. I didnt know if I was going crazy and making things up or if I was seeing what was really going on. It went on and off over years. Not to mention the other abuse. I lost so much weight and didnt sleep. I tried to kill myself and he raped me while I OD'ed. I have trouble with my feelings and my thoughts as well, which is how I know it can be controlled (thoughts) I have dealt with so much cognitive dissonance that I have a hard time seeing things and feeling things.
> 
> So no, I am not a Narcissist but I do have reasons for fear and insecurity. I hope this gave you a bit more insight. This is only the last 6 years. I know only I can control how I feel and think. But for now, I am uncomfortable till I can have help sorting it out.


Look, my point isn't that you are a narcissist, but that by trying to police someone's thoughts, and indicating you should be the only person they think about _you are acting pretty narcissistic._ In this very narrow, specific discussion.

You've had a hard life. I can empathize.

Let me give my own example: I have been abused, and had knives and guns pointed in my face by my own stepmother at different points, for petty things like leaving a fork in the sink. I get extremely anxious when any woman holds a knife or gun anywhere near me. That doesn't mean that my girlfriend is wrong for picking up a knife, or that she needs to not cook dinner. That I should pathologize her deer hunting. It means I need to control myself and my reactions to these things.

But what we're discussing--your and my experiences--is _controlling our responses to perceived threats due to experience._ While you're equivocating that with your husband somehow controlling whether or not he physically finds someone attractive. That's like trying to tell a person they have to stop liking the look, taste and smell of bacon, when they naturally like it. You can convince them to not eat it. What you can't do is force them to never find bacon tantalizing.

Let me put this in more direct terms. What you, and the loons supporting you on this thread are advocating is the logical equivalent of the farcical "Pray Away the Gay" seminars where they don't teach people to not act upon their desires, but instead attempt to teach them to never find people of the same sex attractive. One is achievable. The other is madness.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> Well sadly you are wrong and I am not restating it to hurt you, but for you to own what is yours and that is really all. He did not lie! He simply made you privy to his very personal and inner random thoughts. You are making a mountain out of a mow hill in all honesty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hard truths ^5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Kivlor said:


> Look, my point isn't that you are a narcissist, but that by trying to police someone's thoughts, and indicating you should be the only person they think about _you are acting pretty narcissistic._ In this very narrow, specific discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Excellent post!!


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Well sadly you are wrong and I am not restating it to hurt you, but for you to own what is yours and that is really all. He did not lie! He simply made you privy to his very personal and inner random thoughts. You are making a mountain out of a mow hill in all honesty.
> 
> You are clearly very upset with his indiscretion about HIS random thoughts. He should of kept those thoughts to himself. It was a huge mistake on his part and by now he probably knows it all too well. It Was A Mistake, and Not A Lie: big difference you seem to think they are one and the same.
> 
> ...


NO NO I never said HE lied hun. You said it was wrong for him to be honest. I was directing it at YOU. If YOU think its okay to lie. I have no idea how you got that HE was lying out of all that. My husband was honest and I LOVE that. I keep trying to take some kind of blame and pointing out how good it is we are honest and people seem to keep pointing out things that are not what I am saying or thinking at all. I did not blame him. I have owned up to my triggers. It is not his fault, i never said it was his fault, i just am saying I KNOW WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM. I know they are MY triggers. I dont know what more I can say to explain you are taking everything I have said and completely twisted it to where I am blaming him. I am not blaming him for anything. I am uncomfortable by his thoughts. Thats it. My therapist has never told me my triggers are truth. She is teaching me how to handle them. THIS TRIGGER has not been worked on since I have been with my husband because it has never needed to be. I love him. He is my everything and I am willing to do whatever I can to make things right. I have many posts in here where I keep saying I know I have insecurities. people, places, words, smells, thoughts, objects, they are all triggers to people with PTSD. My husband started a trigger. I opened that trigger up with asking a question. The thoughts now linger and I am doing the best I can to fix it. I promise with everything I am not trying to make my husband the bad guy, I am not trying to excuse my reactions and behaviors, I just came to get opinions and instead many of you are doing to me what you are accuse me of doing to my husband. I have not treated him badly or hurt him or anything. Everything happened in those few hours that one night two days ago. I hugged him when he came in from work like I always do and I am going to make him dinner now. He is multching my butterfly garden and I am going to give him a body massage like I do. Nothing has changed except how I feel inside. I only mentioned it that night. We have yet to speak more about it till I talk to my own therapist.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Being attracted to young sexually mature women *is the natural response*, suppressing that is a societal rule. Its a good rule, but its not the natural behavior.


If this were 100% true and was never under a man's control, then the same man would be sexually attracted to his own daughters as they reached maturity. But most fathers are not sexually attracted to their own daughters. So....if he can control his "natural attraction" when the object of his attraction is his own daughter, then he can also control his "natural attraction" when dealing with other underaged girls. 

How do men control their sexual urges about their own daughters? And please spare me anything eluding to "because it is unnatural". What would be "natural" behavior in human beings would include that the father isn't even present in the daughter's life and therefore if he came upon her when she came into puberty, in his eyes she would be nothing but another female and he would try to have sex with her. THAT is the natural part of attraction in our evolution...it will not discriminate based on family lines. There are also plenty of incestuous relationships in our history, so that's "natural", too.

The bottom line is that the men who do this know it is creepy and wrong, but they will try to blame nature for it rather than just own it. Our bodies may involuntarily feel a blip of arousal at seeing various other people, but it is entirely up to us what we do with this and how we handle it. To just roll with it and have the sexual fantasy about the 13 year old girl for 3 seconds while you are standing right next to your wife, I'm sorry guys, this is gross. Own it. And own how gross it is too, without blaming it on your "nature". 

And just to point out...several people have said things like "well if the 13 year old was presenting herself like an 18 year old then...." somehow trying to imply that the OP's husband must not have realized how young they were.

The OP did not make any statements about what the girls were wearing at all. I'm sure that if it were young girls really trying hard to look older, it would not have registered so much in her head what her husband was doing. He told her himself that he does not consider their age, just feels the attraction and then has sex with them in his head. Therefore, he really didn't care if they were 13 or 30. Thus, the OP's issues with this.

I'm sorry to tell you this guys...but there really ARE men who don't do this. You can tell yourself all day long that "all men do it" as a way to handle your own shame about it. And you can tell yourself that if a man says he isn't doing it, he is lying. Whatever you have to do to live with it, I guess.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If this were 100% true and was never under a man's control, then the same man would be sexually attracted to his own daughters as they reached maturity. But most fathers are not sexually attracted to their own daughters. So....if he can control his "natural attraction" when the object of his attraction is his own daughter, then he can also control his "natural attraction" when dealing with other underaged girls.
> 
> How do men control their sexual urges about their own daughters? And please spare me anything eluding to "because it is unnatural". What would be "natural" behavior in human beings would include that the father isn't even present in the daughter's life and therefore if he came upon her when she came into puberty, in his eyes she would be nothing but another female and he would try to have sex with her. THAT is the natural part of attraction in our evolution...it will not discriminate based on family lines. There are also plenty of incestuous relationships in our history, so that's "natural", too.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying it, Faithful.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I really don't get this '3 second fantasy' thing.

When I see someone hot, I think things like 'wow', 'sexy', 'nice butt', etc. Maybe a second glance happens. That takes 3 seconds.

To play out having sex with them in my mind would take much longer than that. Would be extremely awkward standing there staring for 25 seconds thinking up a sex scenario.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Need to be clear here: I said that being *attracted* was a natural response. That doesn't mean that its OK to act in any way on that attraction. Its a natural response to want to empty your bowels when they are full, but that doesn't mean that you just take a dump in public. Its natural to want to hit someone when you are angry, etc etc. It is natural to push people out of the way to save yourself from a threat, to take food when you are hungry etc etc. 

We expect people to control their behaviors in all sorts of ways - its an absolutely expected part of being a civilized human. 


This is a long thread, so maybe I've missed something important, but it seemed that the OP's husband was *thinking* about underage girls, not acting on those thoughts. 

I see a world of difference between thoughts and actions. I don't care what thoughts are in someone's head. I care how they act on those thoughts. (and talking about them counts as "acting"). 







Faithful Wife said:


> If this were 100% true and was never under a man's control, then the same man would be sexually attracted to his own daughters as they reached maturity. But most fathers are not sexually attracted to their own daughters. So....if he can control his "natural attraction" when the object of his attraction is his own daughter, then he can also control his "natural attraction" when dealing with other underaged girls.
> 
> How do men control their sexual urges about their own daughters? And please spare me anything eluding to "because it is unnatural". What would be "natural" behavior in human beings would include that the father isn't even present in the daughter's life and therefore if he came upon her when she came into puberty, in his eyes she would be nothing but another female and he would try to have sex with her. THAT is the natural part of attraction in our evolution...it will not discriminate based on family lines. There are also plenty of incestuous relationships in our history, so that's "natural", too.
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> The underage part bothers me.


Are we talking prepubescent, or girls who have mature fully grown adult bodies? Those are two very different things. The reason why we prevent people under 17 from entering into relationships with adults (even if it is obvious there bodies have grown into adulthood) is because they are not emotionally mature enough to have relationships with adults. It destroys innocence and we as a society believe that innocence it to be valued man or women. We also believe that an adult mind with the experience of being an adult has the ability to abuse a younger less experience mind. There is a power difference that makes that gives the adult to much of an advantage advantage and will often end up hurting the younger person. Besides that what does an adult want with a 16 year old, probably only one thing. That doesn't mean that some older teenagers aren't physically adults. Sorry both men and women can see someone who may be too young and if they have matured into adulthood physically they can be attracted to them. People like you act that human beings go from looking like a 12 year old and then instantly mature into 17 year old adult body the day their 17 year old birthday comes. I'm sorry that is not how the real world works. 

Look through this link all of these young men are high school age. 85% of them look like any other young man in there 20's. I wouldn't be shocked or disgusted if a women or gay men were to find some of these men attractive. Now I would hope that then the logical, moral part of her brain would kick in and say, emotionally they are just kids. So that is not right and then move on. That is what we expect in a moral society. There is no reason to feel revulsion about it though. Not this kind of hyper vigilance (you are one step away from being a deviant) idea that some people have. This sounds exactly what your husband said to you.

I say all this assuming we are not prepubescent women. That is an entirely different story and is a very big red flag.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I see a world of difference between thoughts and actions. *I don't care what thoughts are in someone's head.* I care how they act on those thoughts. (and talking about them counts as "acting").


Ok so if a man has sexual fantasies about his own daughter (or son for that matter) going on in his head, it really wouldn't matter to you? You wouldn't feel he is a man of a undesirable character? What if he was imagining violently raping your wife? Still no problem with this? Really? He could then hang out with you and your wife thinking these thoughts and it wouldn't make any difference to you?

People like to pretend that our heads are our private space and that what we think about doesn't matter. But it certainly does matter. What you think about matters in everything you do, it colors your beliefs and your world view. And yes what we think about does affect what we say and how we act. The mere fact that someone would think their thoughts of this nature don't matter is something I would certainly want to know about someone long before they ever came near my daughter. Sadly though, it is just hushed away and no one wants to own what they think.

If all of this really didn't matter, then the men who are saying it doesn't matter wouldn't be trying so hard to shame those who believe it does matter. 

Once again....I personally am not talking about feeling arousal. That does happen automatically sometimes. And I am not talking about having sexual fantasies in one's own spare time. What I am talking about is standing there imagining having sex with a 13 year old with your wife right next to you.

Those saying "we can't control our thoughts" are being ridiculous. Of course we can control our thoughts, they are the only thing in the world that we truly DO have control over. 

A blip of arousal feeling in your body is not a "thought".

Having a sexual fantasy about the 13 year old while standing next to your wife is a "thought" and is most certainly under your control. But instead of admitting it is under your control, you'd rather claim that it isn't so you don't have to go through the shame of owning how creepy it is.

But it is under your control whether you want to take control over it or not is the only issue. Sure, feel free to have creepy gross fantasies about barely teen girls! But be open and honest about it, tell your wife and explain to her that it really shouldn't matter to her. Stop bashing this OP and go tell your wife your "truth" instead. Since it is "normal" and "natural", she shouldn't have any problem with it, right? (this is not specifically directed at you uhtred)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I really don't get this '3 second fantasy' thing.
> 
> When I see someone hot, I think things like 'wow', 'sexy', 'nice butt', etc. Maybe a second glance happens. That takes 3 seconds.
> 
> To play out having sex with them in my mind would take much longer than that. Would be extremely awkward standing there staring for 25 seconds thinking up a sex scenario.



I totally admit that I think about sex with random sexy strangers I see.....and yes I can get quite a lot imagined in just a few seconds, very specific scenes and acts...and then I take the rest home with me for the spank bank for later.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally admit that I think about sex with random sexy strangers I see.....and yes I can get quite a lot imagined in just a few seconds, very specific scenes and acts...and then I take the rest home with me for the spank bank for later.


Is this because you can't control your sexual urges or because there is no problem with having these sexual urges?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Is this because you can't control your sexual urges or because there is no problem with having these sexual urges?


It is because I WANT to do it, and I LIKE doing it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Okay everyone keeps saying I shamed him. HE FELT ASHAMED ON HIS OWN. I had no idea till the end of the night. He felt ashamed because it hurt me and he couldnt understand why. I did not sit and point my finger at him and scream till my face was red and beat him down saying he should be ashamed of himself. I expressed my concern. I explained issues and scenarios that upset me and made me feel uncomfortable. If it is shaming to be honest and express how you feel about something than you are shaming me for my feelings and opinions and doing the same thing you are accusing me of. My husband has a mind of his own. My opinions may be strong and my pain may be real but I tell him I am grateful for his honesty and opinion. It might take me a day to process his words and put it together, but I never withhold my wrong doings and act like I am above him or his opinions. I should not feel shame for being upset about his admittance to sexual thoughts of girls in the teenage underage mark. It is called underage for a reason. He is 36 next month. He is old enough to control things. If I have to control my thoughts and behaviors than he does too. I have traveled a long road to the maturity of which I handle my feelings due to my PTSD because of therapy. This includes thoughts, actions, behaviors, mannerisms, I have behavioral cognitive therapy *because I am autistic*.


*That *explains why you don't understand the impossible position you are putting your husband in.

To answer your original question, yes, thoughts really just are thoughts. Actions and thoughts are different and distinct.

He has *done *nothing wrong.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally admit that I think about sex with random sexy strangers I see.....and yes I can get quite a lot imagined in just a few seconds, very specific scenes and acts...and then I take the rest home with me for the spank bank for later.


What if one of those random sexy strangers is 15! You really have no way of knowing. I am saying this because in one of my 5th grade classes, I had a young boy who grew a very thick mustache and beard. The kid was not even 11 yet! He had a very toned body and was hairy and tall. Looks are deceiving as he looked at least 25! Poor lil guy he was only 11, and some moms had a problem with that young man being in their little girls' classroom. That young man was a kid that was even younger than their girls. Very deceiving indeed. I am not exaggerating, the boy looked much older. Can you image the dirty thoughts he triggered? Holy moly, thank goodness random thoughts are just that!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> How do men control their sexual urges about their own daughters?


It is scientifically believed to be a form of "imprinted" instinct. Just like a baby duck hatching and seeing a human, the human will become "imprinted" to the duck as if they are their parent.










If two individuals meet one another while one person has not yet reached puberty it is believed that this relationship is imprinted as sexually incompatible. Two siblings are imprinted onto one another as sexually incompatible as they meet each other as babies. Cousins are imprinted as sexually incompatible since they usually spend plenty of time together at young ages. Adults and children are imprinted as sexually incompatible as they meet at an age when one of the two has not yet reached puberty.

In contrast when two people of drastically different ages meet for the first time after puberty then they are not impacted by this instinct. It is not uncommon for a 40 year old to date a 25 year old. However this relationship would be imprinted as sexually incompatible in the event these two people had originally met one another when at the ages of 20 and 5.

At least that is what scientist think.

Here is the technical name for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

tech-novelist said:


> *That explains why you don't understand the impossible position you are putting your husband in.
> 
> To answer your original question, yes, thoughts really just are thoughts. Actions and thoughts are different and distinct.
> 
> He has done nothing wrong.*


Quoted for Truth! Bolded for emphasis! Underlined to bring it home!

Has it sunk in yet OP?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> What if one of those random sexy strangers is 15! You really have no way of knowing. I am saying this because in one of my 5th grade classes, I had a young boy who grew a very thick mustache and beard. The kid was not even 11 yet! He had a very toned body and was hairy and tall. Looks are deceiving as he looked at least 25! Poor lil guy he was only 11, and some moms had a problem with that young man being in their little girls' classroom. That young man was a kid that was even younger than their girls. Very deceiving indeed. I am not exaggerating, the boy looked much older. Can you image the dirty thoughts he triggered? Holy moly, thank goodness random thoughts are just that!


Even 25 is too young for me, so I'm sure the poor young 11 year old boy has not been a figure in my kinky fantasies. Nice try, though!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I say all this assuming we are not prepubescent women. That is an entirely different story and is a very big red flag.


She has already said some were as young as 13, he has already said yes he does imagine having sex with them, and further that he does not discriminate based on age when he looks at and has on-the-spot sexual fantasies about these young girls.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> She has already said some were as young as 13, he has already said yes he does imagine having sex with them, and further that he does not discriminate based on age when he looks at and has on-the-spot sexual fantasies about these young girls.




I lost my virginity when I was 13. I was already very sexual. 


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

The drinking age was 18 when I was 16. I had NO problem getting into clubs at 16. 

You can't judge a book by its cover. 


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I lost my virginity when I was 13. I was already very sexual.


I was already playing with my sexuality at 13, too. With other TEENS.

Does that mean it would have been ok for some creepy older married men to imagine having sex with me while standing next to their wives?

While I am sure some men did do this (and I was fully aware at 13 that adult men DO look at you that way, which made me sick even then), how is the fact that I was myself becoming my own sexual person with other people in my age range also giving a license for old creepy dudes to leer at me? :scratchhead:


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

SadSamIAm said:


> I really don't get this '3 second fantasy' thing.
> 
> When I see someone hot, I think things like 'wow', 'sexy', 'nice butt', etc. Maybe a second glance happens. That takes 3 seconds.
> 
> To play out having sex with them in my mind would take much longer than that. Would be extremely awkward standing there staring for 25 seconds thinking up a sex scenario.


This is actually what I have tried to explain to him. How can he possibly do that in 3 seconds. I told him it might be habit and feel like it takes a short time, but maybe in reality he is staring much longer than he thinks. He says that could be true but to him it seems quick and over. I question this before but he has a hard time explaining it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> The drinking age was 18 when I was 16. I had NO problem getting into clubs at 16.
> 
> You can't judge a book by its cover.


The OP has already said that her husband said himself that he doesn't discriminate his sexual fantasies based on age. This is not an issue of "he thought she was an adult". Instead, he knows she is mostly likely underage but he doesn't care.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I was already playing with my sexuality at 13, too. With other TEENS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's why the grass grows and why the flowers bloom hon. Procreation. 


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Even 25 is too young for me, so I'm sure the poor young 11 year old boy has not been a figure in my kinky fantasies. Nice try, though!


My example was not just for you. The boy was quite handsome. Any random and adventurous woman that was single and 20 to 35 would probably hit on him if they saw him at a store, mall or in public. They would fall over backwards when they would hear him talk though. He still had a little boy's voice. :surprise: 

Same thing happens with males. Girls grow up faster than boys and look older most of the time. Looks are very deceiving. We must remember that most women like men older than them and most men like women younger, sometimes much younger. It is part of our makeup. We as females want good providers. They as males want good females to procreate with. Most of us now don't mate for those reasons, but that is ingrained in us still to this day.

There are exceptions of course, but it's not the norm for men to seek older woman to mate with. Most women don't seek younger men to mate with long term either. It's a fact and much research is available to back this up.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> My example was not just for you. The boy was quite handsome. Any random and adventurous woman that was single and 20 to 35 would probably hit on him if they saw him at a store, mall or in public. They would fall over backwards when they would hear him talk though. He still had a little boy's voice. :surprise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I like how you say what I say...only better )

Oy...I'm going to bed 


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Talking about several different things here. 

For reasons that this discussion makes obvious, there are some fantasies that should never be discussed. One should not "tell your wife".

You wrote in another post
_I totally admit that I think about sex with random sexy strangers I see.....and yes I can get quite a lot imagined in just a few seconds, very specific scenes and acts...and then I take the rest home with me for the spank bank for later._

You are not planning to have sex with those strangers. Depending on your relationship, you are not telling your partner about your interests. It is a private fantasy. 

Its generally accepted that some women (and men) have fantasies of being raped. I think its very likely that some men (and women) have fantasies of committing rape. Real rape is of course a vile crime, but we are talking about fantasy. Is a fantasy of sex with an underage person (another form of rape) so different? 

I see a difference if it is prepubescent girls because that attraction seems a more fundamental "wiring", like sexual orientation, but which unlike sexual orientation cannot be expressed without harming others. 

I don't see a problem with a fantasy of a sexually mature, but underage girl. It seems like just another power imbalance fantasy - which are common and can range from wanting sex with a billionaire, or maid, or pool boy to fantasies of rape (as victim or assailant). 


I assume some men have fantasized about violently raping my wife. I assume some of my employees have imagined beating me to death in a dark alley. I don't want to hear about it, but I assume it happens. 




Faithful Wife said:


> Ok so if a man has sexual fantasies about his own daughter (or son for that matter) going on in his head, it really wouldn't matter to you? You wouldn't feel he is a man of a undesirable character? What if he was imagining violently raping your wife? Still no problem with this? Really? He could then hang out with you and your wife thinking these thoughts and it wouldn't make any difference to you?
> 
> People like to pretend that our heads are our private space and that what we think about doesn't matter. But it certainly does matter. What you think about matters in everything you do, it colors your beliefs and your world view. And yes what we think about does affect what we say and how we act. The mere fact that someone would think their thoughts of this nature don't matter is something I would certainly want to know about someone long before they ever came near my daughter. Sadly though, it is just hushed away and no one wants to own what they think.
> 
> ...


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Actually the average age difference between married people is 4 years. Not 10, not 15, not 20, not 25 years.....Not sure what your "facts" are, but a 4 year age gap is irrelevant as far as the topic we are discussing here. "Most women like older men" is I'm sorry, completely untrue, unless by older you consider 4 years on average being some huge age gap, but I don't.
> 
> *This OP's husband has specifically said:
> 
> ...



It is not one bit unusual in my country for a man to marry at woman 10 years younger and most women will marry men at least 10 years older. My second husband was that exactly 10 years older. It's not one bit uncommon where I am from. Maybe you do see it that way where you are from and that is really all. Location does play a factor in who we mate with as well. Oh, and some girls in my country marry as young as 14 or 15. Parents gladly consent. It's crazy by America's standards as well as other countries that are not third world. 

...and for the record, he "imagines" random sexual thoughts with these girls, he doesn't act on those random thoughts and he doesn't seek young girls to change them for his wife: Big Difference here. 

We know this because OP stated that she noticed he did a double take at underage girls. Where he saw these girls was not specified, just that he took a double look and admitted to doing it when she pointed it out. He even went so far as to seek counseling because she put doubt in him. A doubt she planted the seed of and had no right to do so. She can't see just how bad this is. 

She felt shame for being petite and looking young. WTF? What does that have to do with his random thoughts? Now you throw this twisted tale of him having sex with them in his mind. You only have what OP is saying and she is saying a lot of weird crap and it all started with him disclosing RANDOM THOUGHTS!

Why did she notice his double look at under age girls? Was it to drill in her insecurities on him? Was it to prove her point for not trusting him and his random thoughts? That is crazy here and anywhere else. 

Random thoughts are not actual actions!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> She has already said some were as young as 13, he has already said yes he does imagine having sex with them, and further that he does not discriminate based on age when he looks at and has on-the-spot sexual fantasies about these young girls.


13 is gross. So yeah, not agreeing with that.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> The drinking age was 18 when I was 16. I had NO problem getting into clubs at 16.
> 
> You can't judge a book by its cover.
> 
> ...


I did not say you could completely. It couldnt be more obvious in a group of teenyboppers though and a father figure. Alone and maybe at a distance, sure. The girls who walk along the sidewalk, yeah its easily mistaken. The odds of someone that looks like me being an adult, are rare though and I do not think it would hurt someone to be cautious of that point. I am rare. I stand next to girls I think are petite and they tell me they are like size 5-8 in pants, I am a zero. I cant see me unless in pictures so I dont know the difference unless its pointed out. Saying this, as young looking as I am at the age of 31, they let me into bars too at the age of 16. I am curious now to see how well people can tell age. I wish I knew enough to conduct this study.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> 13 is gross. So yeah, not agreeing with that.


This is something OP posted. Her initial post only stated that all this over reaction started a year ago when he talked about random sexual thoughts in passing of women he would see. Random thoughts and split second ones, no actions what so ever; IOW plain ole fantasies. 

Then she went on and on about her PTSD and her autism and how she has a daughter she needs to take care of if her husband has pedophile tendencies. Yes, she thinks this of him too. It's on one of her posts! If that is not crazy, I don't know what is.

She has been in therapy for 15 years. Well, it honestly doesn't show one bit IMNSHO.

She is giving us counselors a very bad rep, that's for sure! ...and That's my trigger right there.:surprise:


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> It is not one bit unusual in my country for a man to marry at woman 10 years younger and most women will marry men at least 10 years older. My second husband was that exactly 10 years older. It's not one bit uncommon where I am from. Maybe you do see it that way where you are from and that is really all. Location does play a factor in who we mate with as well. Oh, and some girls in my country marry as young as 14 or 15. Parents gladly consent. It's crazy by America's standards as well as other countries that are not third world.
> 
> ...and for the record, he "imagines" random sexual thoughts with these girls, he doesn't act on those random thoughts and he doesn't seek young girls to change them for his wife: Big Difference here.
> 
> ...


I did not throw in randomly that he had sexual thoughts. Its should be stated in my post. I am not saying "alot of weird crap" I have said the same things over and over. HE IS NOT getting counseling because I planted a seed of doubt. He is seeking counseling because he wants answers, I want answers, and he doesnt like how it hurts me. Yes the idea of me being young looking and petite has a lot of things to do with this. It IS an insecurity, it was MY PERSONAL thought. Why is he allowed to have thoughts but I cant? Why is looking at young girls okay for him but me being uncomfortable in my own body now because of this knowledge, not okay? How is judgment only allowed for me and not for him? Thats the thing though, I dont want him to be judged harshly. I just wanted to talk about my ideas and feelings in the matter and get opinions on whether or not other people would feel this way too, maybe even some insight from a guys point of view. I did not come here to belittle my husband. How is ONE argument drilling insecurities? I noticed his double take because we were driving and I was giving him directions. It was in front of a grocery store as we headed out. My husband told me tonight that most people are probably upset with me on here because they are not honest with their wives about anything so they think putting me down for it will raise their own insecurities. Maybe he is right. I dont know, but like I try to end things on here, underage is underage. I am trying to find a way to deal with it on my own side and on his side. Therapy will help because we are not going in accusing anyone of anything. He will explain to his therapist about what happened and I will explain to my therapist what happened. He will go into one or two with me and i will go into one or two with him. Working on soemthing and learning to see past it so we can both be happy and do the best we can to understand each other, doesnt mean I am drilling, accusing, hurting, beating him down with my opinioin and insecurities. It means my husband knows how I feel and we are going to work on both of us regardless of what is right or wrong. We want to keep each other smiling, not live with underlying pains that people say I am not allowed to feel or speak of and then my marriage falls apart because that pain gets to great and I get paranoid and he gets angry and we can never go anywhere... see how that would be SO much worse than my husband saying "Yeah baby, we can see whats going on inside our heads and do what we can to keep us strong." All these negative comments just show me how stupid I really must be to feel any form of discomfort. Which is exactly what you are saying i am doing to him.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I lost my virginity when I was 13. I was already very sexual.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Please stop. You have no clue what he is actually doing and you are basing this off of a line where the girls "could" be 13. By who's determination? Her's or her husband's. He may think she is older and she may hinknshe is as young as 13.
> 
> Look, I don't like huge gaps in age. I'd never date or marry someone more than maybe 10 years, probably less. I'm not really interested even in sex with women in their 20s. But that doesn't mean that fantasies can't occur, even for a split second. You are going way too hard with assumed information on something that ONLY occurs in this guys mind. You speak in factualites when you don't know it to be true and you are judging him on not his actions but his *perceived thoughts.* I am sure you will continue, which is a shame because it's a very unfair portrayal.


The OP's husband told her directly what his thoughts were.

If you don't like what I'm saying, feel free to ignore my posts.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Why is he allowed to have thoughts but I cant? Why is looking at young girls okay for him but me being uncomfortable in my own body now because of this knowledge, not okay? How is judgment only allowed for me and not for him?


You are absolutely allowed to have your own thoughts and emotions regarding this topic. Don't let others make you feel you shouldn't. 

Just as you pointed out, you are allowed to have whatever thoughts you want about what your husband has said and done. And yes, he is allowed to think whatever he wants...and it is a good thing you know what he thinks so you can now deal with the truth of the matter and decide what it means for you. But just as he is allowed, so are you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> It is scientifically believed to be a form of "imprinted" instinct. Just like a baby duck hatching and seeing a human, the human will become "imprinted" to the duck as if they are their parent.
> 
> If two individuals meet one another while one person has not yet reached puberty it is believed that this relationship is imprinted as sexually incompatible. Two siblings are imprinted onto one another as sexually incompatible as they meet each other as babies. Cousins are imprinted as sexually incompatible since they usually spend plenty of time together at young ages. Adults and children are imprinted as sexually incompatible as they meet at an age when one of the two has not yet reached puberty.
> 
> ...


From the link:

The Westermarck effect, or reverse sexual imprinting, is a hypothetical psychological effect through which people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to sexual attraction. This phenomenon was first hypothesized by Finnish anthropologist Edvard Westermarck in his book The History of Human Marriage (1891) as one explanation for the incest taboo. Observations interpreted as evidence for the Westermarck effect have since been made in many places and cultures, including in the Israeli kibbutz system, and the Chinese Shim-pua marriage customs, as well as in biologically-related families.

(snip)

Some sociologists and anthropologists have criticized the validity of research presented in support of the Westermarck effect and the contention that it serves as an ultimate demonstration for the viability of natural selection theory in explaining human behaviour. *For example, a 2009 study by Eran Shor and Dalit Simchai demonstrated that although most peers who grew up closely together in the Israeli kibbutzim did not marry one another, they did report substantial attraction to co-reared peers. The authors conclude that the case of the kibbutzim actually provides little support for the Westermarck Effect and that childhood proximity cannot in itself produce sexual avoidance without the existence of social pressures and norms*.[3]

Jesse Bering cites several studies that seem to contradict the standard view of the Westermarck effect as an innate learning process; *instead, it may be a cultural phenomenon. People seem to have sexual preferences toward faces that resemble their parents' or their own. If correct, this would suggest that Freud's idea of the Oedipus complex had some merit to it*. (end quote)

Sorry Bad Santa....what you provided is in no way what "scientists" believe. It is merely a hypothesis which has been found by other studies to likely not be true.


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## Cognitivedissonance (May 16, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Actually the average age difference between married people is 4 years. Not 10, not 15, not 20, not 25 years.....Not sure what your "facts" are, but a 4 year age gap is irrelevant as far as the topic we are discussing here. "Most women like older men" is I'm sorry, completely untrue, unless by older you consider 4 years on average being some huge age gap, but I don't.
> 
> *This OP's husband has specifically said:
> 
> ...


Many of what I have read about "its nature" etc. suggests its what we do when looking for a mate. Well, my hunny has a mate. Me. One he is very happy to be with he states. He wants to see if he has control over it and that is another reason for the therapy. I thank you for this. They do not seem to understand that he has admitted. He has said he doesnt always know but he sometimes does.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. *That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts.*


If this is not disturbing(the bold part exclusively) as in crazy I don't know what is. What does men thinking of fondling and doing it in actuality have in common? Rhetorical question here, please don't answer. It's just more lunacy. 

Why on God's green Earth were you seeking sex at 3? Who abused you at such a young age and why do you have recollections at such a tender age? That is not one bit normal, and I know kids and I know really messed up and abused kids too. How did you act out at 3 to know that is was a sexual move? Can you explain some of things you did?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife suggested I might add something. 

She was the victim of childhood physical abuse, and sexual abuse.

She is bisexual. She was also the victim of conversion therapy just after her 14th birthday, in 1969. Homosexuality was illegal then, and they could do what they wanted. She has now blocked the event from her memory entirely. There were times she did remember it, and it nearly consumed her life.

She wants to point out that yes, you can control your thoughts with enough therapy. She learned to control her fears, her panic, her unreasoning sheer terror response whenever she had a fleeting thought about that event. Yes, you can learn to control your thoughts.

But she thinks learning to control your own thoughts is not the same as trying to control someone else's thoughts. You can desire someone else to want to learn that, but it's just not the same at all. Be mindful of what you ask for. Consider how many years of intensive therapy it can take with the right therapist to learn to control that terror. Learning to control a small thought may not be any easier.

Mary suggests it may be asking for too much.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Many of what I have read about "its nature" etc. suggests its what we do when looking for a mate. Well, my hunny has a mate. Me. One he is very happy to be with he states. He wants to see if he has control over it and that is another reason for the therapy. I thank you for this. They do not seem to understand that he has admitted. He has said he doesnt always know but he sometimes does.


I'm really sorry for the posts you have received here.

Please understand that some men do not do this.

I do not mean to demonize your husband. From what you have shared, he likely just never really gave it much thought as to how appropriate or not these thoughts are, or how it would affect you. I'm glad to hear he is at least empathetic to your feelings, even if he cannot understand why you feel that way. That counts for a lot. He doesn't want to hurt you and really never gave it any thought to consider that it may hurt you....once he found out that it does, he is willing to work with you on it. I do not think he is some creepy monster, just that he didn't adapt to what is appropriate as he was growing into adulthood.

He can still do this (adjust his fantasy life to align with his adulthood) and can still be a good mate to you. It sounds like he loves you very much.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Well, my mind is blown. I never would've expected to see so many people normalizing lusting after underage girls. So much so, they feel the need to beat on the OP, and shame her, for finding it creepy. 

Really? 

When I was an underaged girl myself, it always very much creeped me out when old dudes were lusting on me. And I was very thankful that not all guys were like this -- that quite a few agreed that it's actually pretty creepy to be lusting on young girls. 

And for those of you who think that your "thoughts" are just "thoughts" that are hidden from everyone but yourself, think again. Not only can the person you are lusting after see it, but anyone else who is paying any attention whatsoever can too.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. *That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts*.


So you would make these types of thoughts illegal? How would the illegal thoughts be detected? What punishment would you extract for breaking this law?

And, with the above bolded quote this thread has officially gone off-the-rails, we see why OP needs therapeutic help ... she is looking for the boogeyman (i.e. sex offenders) everywhere.

OP I hope you find some measure of peace of mind eventually. I'm out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

CD, I can understand why this is a problem for you, I am just wondering if the problem is being magnified because of your own past, your own CSA, etc and somehow your H has become the epitome of what happened to you.

I am not saying that lusting after under aged girls is a good thing, but you have said he likes your body type, he may see body types briefly, girls who actually look older than they are etc. 
I think you have a good husband who is willing to explore this further. 
I am however sure of it that many men (including on here) have looked at girls, young enough to be their daughters, but would never act on it, how is your scenario different?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. *That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts.*






Red Sonja said:


> And, with the above bolded quote this thread has officially gone off-the-rails, we see why OP needs therapeutic help ... she is looking for the boogeyman (i.e. sex offenders) everywhere.


Exactly! The bold part of her above quote is pure lunacy. No other way around that particular tidbit. It is right along the part of her response on post #29. Below is the part of the quote that is off the rails as well.



Cognitivedissonance said:


> I am not shaming him and I told him his thoughts were boarderline pedophilic ...



The 3 year age memories of sexual misconduct are much more disturbing though. There is something seriously wrong here, I am talking as a concerned counselor plain and simple. It's just impossible to dismiss at all. It screams attention, even through an online poster. OP, you need serious help and you will not find it online.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I 100% understand your discomfort, and even disgust, so please keep that in mind in light of my ultimate point.

There's a reason why "barely legal" porn is so enormously popular with men.

There's a reason that, for the vast majority of human history, females in the 13-17 range were wed and had children, legally, and still do in some parts of this world.

While laws in the west have changed, our biology isn't based on legality.

Lets not confuse this with pedophilia, which is being specifically attracted to young, prepubescent bodies. Finding a matured figure of a teenager attractive is not the same beast as being attracted to children and their undeveloped bodies.

Do you believe your husband is acting on, or might act on, having sex with teenagers? If not, it's best to let this go. I honestly believe this is something he really, really should've kept to himself. Most men just would not, and will not, and should not, admit to finding teens attractive, even if they do; and many, many men do. It's FAR more prevalent than women are likely to ever realize, or ever want to realize.

If you suspect that he's moving into territory where he'll act on his thoughts, or even these thoughts are becoming obsessive, or far more than a passing fancy, than yes, he must be urged to seek help. 

And to be perfectly fair to women, I absolutely am not surprised when legal women check out hot, teenage males. Not every woman does, just like not every man does, but more than enough have, and do. The appeal of the teen idol, for example, has never been just limited to a teen audience.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I don't think the issue is that men are noticing and looking at sexual mature girls that are under 18. I think it's biologically wired into a man to look at a beautiful woman, regardless of age. I think they notice a woman and look at her before their brain even catches up. What is an issue is when a man looks at an underage girl because she caught his eye and as soon as he realizes she is underage he should be shutting down any sexual thoughts about this young girl, not cultivating them and imagining having sex with her and saving that image for his spank bank. That is what is immoral and frankly the thought that some of my teenage daughter's friend's fathers are thinking about having sex with my 16 year old makes me feel sick to my stomach.

On the other hand looking at 13 year old girls that are just reaching sexual maturity is worrisome. Yes my 13 year old has boobs and a nice hour glass figure, but there is still no way you can't tell she is a child. I myself developed at 12 and I hated it as I could not stand the creepy looks I would get from some men, especially older men. It forced me to grow up faster than I should have and robbed me of some more of those innocent carefree years. I spent my whole teenage years wearing baggy cloths, no makeup and a ponytail just to make myself not attractive to avoid the attention. 

So IMO a man can and should control his sexually thoughts and even though he may not act on these fantasies he has, cultivating them about young girls is neither productive and bring his mind to a place that probably should be avoided. I understand we all have dark thoughts at one point of another, but we train our mind to shut them down and push them out as they are unproductive and can be harmfull to dwell on. 

I think this quote sums it up perfectly

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, lustful, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

We have to chose what we feed our heart, mind and soul.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

jaquen said:


> There's a reason that, for the vast majority of human history, females in the 13-17 range were wed and had children, legally, and still do in some parts of this world.


This had nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with property. In those good ol' days, girls as young as 6 and 9 were married off to old dudes. It was dowries and politics and was all family arranged. It had little to do with "biology".


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

wild jade said:


> This had nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with property. In those good ol' days, girls as young as 6 and 9 were married off to old dudes. It was dowries and politics and was all family arranged. It had little to do with "biology".


Just because you are historically illiterate doesn't make your fantasy history real kiddo.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> The guy saw a hot CHILD. That is what is the issue. Maybe woman take more offence to this as our maternal instinct naturally wants to protect our kids and see's them as innocent girls, not some old guys sexual fantasy.
> 
> It's illegal and immoral to have sex with a child, They may look like grownups but they are not and anyone who has a teenage daughter can vouch that. I would think that any man with decent self respect and self control would not cultivate those immoral thoughts, not saying it's not normal to have them, all men appreciated a female form whether they are teenagers or mid age the difference is the decent men don't take it another step and fantasy about having sex with them. Tons of men control their thoughts and don't fantasy about other woman no matter the age, they concentrate on their wife and i can't remember names but i have read that statement on here before.
> 
> ...


You don't know what he saw! Omg, he didn't have sex with a 13 year old! I don't do any of this. But I won't have an abortion. And I won't do drugs. And I won't have sex with a dude. And I won't do a lot of things that I still will fight for. What's in his head is none of your friggin business as long as it stays there.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

wild jade said:


> You tell me not to control thoughts? Why are you trying to control mine? Yes, when I was an underage girl, those old dudes lusting on me creeped me out to no end. You are defending the old dudes rights to lust on me, but won't extend me the same courtesy? No matter how uncomfortable they made me feel?


How am I trying to control your thoughts. You are assuming. You are assuming that old men are leading at you and lusting after you. Think about the mindset you have to think that. Maybe you wanted to think that. And that's good for you! You liked getting disgusted that thinking about old men lusting after you. I'm cool with that. Cause it's in your head and you kept it there. 

I am not defending anyone overtly specializing anyone they dont know. If you are in a tight shirt and yoga pants and bend over to pick up a pencil while in line at the supermarket and some dude looks, who cares. If some dude leans over to get a good look and/or makes a comment or grunts, then yeah, that's wrong. Mostly because he is drawing attention to himself intentionally. 

Like I said before, this guy ain't listing after 13 year olds no matter how much you want to villainize him.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Poster:

I was a contributor to this dumpster fire of a thread jack. 

Speaking as a Moderator:

The thread jack has gone too far and stops now. If you cannot post something directly to the OP and her situation, then exit this thread or there will be little choice but to issue bans.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Cognitivedissonance said:


> Many of what I have read about "its nature" etc. suggests its what we do when looking for a mate. Well, my hunny has a mate. Me. One he is very happy to be with he states. He wants to see if he has control over it and that is another reason for the therapy. I thank you for this. They do not seem to understand that he has admitted. He has said he doesnt always know but he sometimes does.





Cognitivedissonance said:


> I was raped when I was a child so I was already sexual too. Doesnt mean I liked it or wanted it. I was 15 when I started having sex casually but I was seeking out sex since I was 3 years old. That doesnt mean men should be allowed to fondle me in their thoughts.


CD:
Speaking as someone who was emotionally and physically abused as a kid, to another abused child: I think you need serious help. I don't think trying to get your H therapy for impure thoughts is going to help your marriage, nor is it going to help him mentally. It's likely to cause exactly what you've aptly named yourself: Cognitive Dissonance. 

I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you have bad intent. I think what you are attempting will have terrible consequences. Your H has stated you're the only girl for him, despite all the beautiful women he sees in this wide world. That should be a great sign, and instead, it's become a point of insecurity. The fact that he sees them has become a problem for you. But he has eyes, and he cannot help but to see. 

It appears to me that you are seeing bogeymen in the shadows. I think you are projecting your insecurities and your abuse onto your H. That's completely normal for an abused person. But it's also completely unhealthy. 

I don't intend any of this in a hurtful way. I've been in pretty dark places, I can completely empathize with you. I needed help too. Probably still do, in some ways, if I'm completely honest. If you've been in therapy for 15 years, and this is as far as you've gotten, then IMO (with the admittedly limited knowledge I have of your situation) your therapist is not very effective, or you have gone as far as you are emotionally capable for now. I don't know how to get you out of where you are, and to a healthy place, but I hope you can find it. Having friends who cared about me enough to point out self-destructive patterns helped get me to a healthier place. So did getting the bad people out of my life. And eventually, accepting that no, I did not ask for it, and I didn't bring it on myself; that I had zero power or control over the situation, that I was in over my head, and knew nothing better was perhaps the biggest step to helping myself recover. Maybe those are good places to start for you.

I know this isn't what you want to hear. What you want is for someone to confirm your insecurities. But that won't help you overcome them, it will only reinforce them for you, and make tearing them down that much more difficult.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I think my advice would be to the OP would be now knowing what is going on in your husband mind, how are you going to feel when you own daughter becomes a teenager? Are you going to have fears or be constantly worrying that your husband is looking and thinking about your daughter or can you put this out of your mind and reassure yourself that while the thoughts are not something you agree with, his action are upstanding and he shows no signs of pursuing his personal thoughts.

If you truly feell your husband may fantasy about young girls but still has the respect and self control to know it's not something you go out and do, if you have no problem with the thoughts I see this as no issue. 

At the end of the day it's all about what you can live with, and no one here can tell you that or make up your mind. I wish you all the best.


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## theDrifter (Mar 20, 2017)

Men have the ability to "turn off" sexual impulses in some instances. For example, no matter how hot a guy's mother or sister(s) are, a healthy man will never have sexual desires for them. It's an evolutionary thing so that we don't inter-breed and double up on every bad genetic attribute. This is backed by a lot of science and is referred to as the "Westermarck effect". 

As for men attracted to young women - it's just as evolutionary. Many studies show that, for most men, women are their most attractive between the ages of 15 - 20. Yeah - horrifying but true. The overwhelming majority of men are able to avoid actually pursuing young women - girls actually - but taking a second look is as natural as breathing. Again, lots of science behind this one too. So if you want to condemn your husband/boyfriend for being a normal, healthy male then have at it. But I wish you would remember that the temptation of young women is a natural urge for him.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

OP...how did your therapy session go today?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

theDrifter said:


> ...As for men attracted to young women - it's just as evolutionary. Many studies show that, for most men, women are their most attractive between the ages of 15 - 20. Yeah - horrifying but true. The overwhelming majority of men are able to avoid actually pursuing young women - girls actually - but taking a second look is as natural as breathing. Again, lots of science behind this one too. So if you want to condemn your husband/boyfriend for being a normal, healthy male then have at it. But I wish you would remember that the temptation of young women is a natural urge for him.


One of the things that was hard for me to figure out is that the OP seems to be trying to struggle with two different concepts at the same time. I know I misunderstood some of it in my comments to her first post. And I feel that while she has elaborated in others, that there still is some mixing of concepts.

First is the one that you address, that her husband shouldn't have improper thoughts about "under age of legal consent" girls. There is room for debate as to what "age" she finds improper. But I am sure there are studies like you say for men of certain age ranges to find biologically attractive women of certain childbearing ages. Fertility is an evolutionary thing.

A second concept is that as a Child Sexual assault victim from a very young age, her awareness of an attraction to under age girls on her Husband's part part creeps her out and triggers what the Gottmans would probably call an emotional flooding. 

I think she is struggling with her need to get closure on her CSA and her need to feel that her H is her emotional rock she can rely upon who does not trigger bring forward bad emotional memories and feelings. 

I can understand where her H is a man she thinks she can trust and needs to feel she can trust. And yet is he just like all the others who can't be trusted.

This certainly is a popular threat that has super-heated a lot of emotion and debate.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

@Cognitivedissonance,

I hope you realize that you are not alone, and there are many, both men and women, who would agree that lusting on the 13-17 year old set is somewhere on the spectrum from inappropriate to creepy. 

If nothing else, I expect your conversations with your husband will raise his awareness about how he might be affecting others (to the degree that they see and are aware he is doing this), and perhaps to think a little more deeply about what he might currently take for granted.


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## theDrifter (Mar 20, 2017)

wild jade said:


> @Cognitivedissonance,
> 
> I hope you realize that you are not alone, and there are many, both men and women, who would agree that lusting on the 13-17 year old set is somewhere on the spectrum from inappropriate to creepy.


I think most people think of "lusting" as fantasizing & having real desire to have sex with underage girls so using words like "inappropriate" and "creepy" are well justified. I think these guys would encourage these young girls, sexually, if they seemed at all receptive. Now, I guess unless they actually touch them it's not illegal - however I think that these guys are moral degenerates and it's only a matter of time that they do something that rises to that level. 

My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

theDrifter said:


> ... - however I think that these guys are moral degenerates and it's only a matter of time that they do something that rises to that level.
> 
> My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.


Whoa! Wow.

I find those comments rather inappropriate. Moral degenerate for thoughts is kind of over the top judgemental in my book. I have been married for over 46 years and kept it in my pants for that length of time except with my wife. Have I momentarily lusted in my heart after other women at times? Yes. Have I acted upon it, even when I was in a sex starved marriage? No. People (men and women) can control themselves and their actions. I think so. To call them moral degenerates for thoughts with no actions and no real desire for actions is over the top in my book.

I don't know if you ever heard of Jimmy Carter's interview with Playboy Magazine in 1976, where he admitted to lusting in his heart after some women who were not his wife. He said,


> "..."I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes that I will do--and I have done it--and God forgives me for it. But that doesn't mean that I condemn someone who not only looks on a woman with lust but who leaves his wife and shacks up with somebody out of wedlock. Christ says, don't consider yourself better than someone else because one guy screws a whole bunch of women while the other guy is loyal to his wife.".."


 . Others felt that President Carter was way over the top in his comments. Jimmy Carter is perhaps one of our most moral Presidents, this country has had.

Now the second point is viewing a man as placing "girls" as "sexual targets" or "just a kid" baskets. Again, Wow. 

I do not view women as "sexual targets" or "non-sexual beings." To think that "men" look at a woman and either immediately place her in a "sexual target" basket or a kid (non-sexual being) basket is kind of creepy. Very few if any guys I know think like that. To think that men in general think like that is not to understand most men.

Is there porn that objectifies women? Yes. But that is not how most men think. 

I can walk down the street without saying hmmm, I would have sex with her, I would not do her, I would love to have sex with that one. I don't think that way and again, neither do most men. Most men I know are shy around women and want to gradually get to know a woman before they become intimate with her or even think of being intimate with her.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

theDrifter said:


> My point is simply the initial reaction to give an attractive underage girl a quick up & down glance is, for most men, simply an evolutionary-fueled reaction. They know it is NOT appropriate and quickly dismiss that girl as a sexual target and put her in the "She's just a kid" basket in their mind.


I brought this thread up to my girlfriend. We are lesbian kinksters, and that is exactly what she said...she might notice a cute young girl, but immediately "she's a kid" enters her brain and she puts it away.

With that said, OP, I hope you had a helpful session with your therapist today. It sounds like you and your hubs do love each other, and I truly hope you can work through this together.


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

I get fantasies sometimes. It's usually about someone in the past but the scene changes and we are doing things that we never did or wouldn't do. Pure fantasy. I know these thoughts are wrong but it will be a battle to beat these thoughts and keep my mind and heart onto my wife.


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## drewg350 (Oct 14, 2017)

Let me tell you something, I work in a very "high testosterone" job. Lots of guys here. Every guy will check out an attractive young girl. Bar none. That doesn't mean they'd act on their thoughts, but if she's attractive, guys are going to look, be it 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, etc.... I'm not talking about "prepubescent girls". That's a totally different issue. If you think I'm wrong, than why is "young girls" the most searched for, purchased, and watched porn ??? Why are "18 yr olds" the hottest porn search ??? Every guy I know will turn and look at an attractive girl or woman, bar none. But for men, sex is driven by what we see, unlike for women, who generally want to feel some form of attachment. We're (men) visual creatures. I think you're being wayyyyyyy too hard on your husband. As long as he's not acting on his thoughts or trying to "hook up" with another girl/women, I wouldn't get upset. ****. Just watch the highly rated movie "American Beauty". You'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Kevin Spacey is every guy. You'll never change your husband, so don't bother.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

Thoughts are just thoughts, some are better kept to yourself. There's nothing wrong with fantasy, and I believe couples should share fantasies, but some thoughts should be kept a secret.

Also, if you're looking at prebubecent girls, seriously stop. That is not what a healthy man should be doing in my opinion. 18 and up, no problem, but draw a line somewhere.


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