# Marry or Walk away



## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

Hi, this is my first post ever in this forum, and it's a bit long. You can get a hint of what it is about from the title.

I'm in this situation where I really don't know what to do. I'm male, 29 years old. I'll give some more background later.

So basically I've been dating my girlfriend for 2 years and 7 months, she's 32, and this week she gave me an ultimatum and broke up with me. It isn't the first time it happens, but I have a feeling this time is the last time.

It all started with a one night stand of sorts. We were friends on a trip and it happened. I was 26 and she was 29 at the time. I wasn't looking for a long term relationship, I had just gotten out of a relationship after living with someone for one a half years. But things progressed and she naturally expected it to become a relationship. I didn't want to but out of guilt and not wanting to break her heart I went along. But the truth is I had this feeling in my stomach telling me it wasn't right and that the longer I waited the more complicated things would become. So, my feeling is that I never fully commit to her, especially in the first year when it felt like I was just looking for a way out. 

But we are long time friends and coworkers, and share many of the same friends, and quickly our lives became very enmeshed. We spent pretty much all of our time together, went to the gym together, spent weekends together, etc. Fact is I enjoyed her company although there were some big red flags for me.

Soon after we officially started dating I started to notice a lot of jealousy and feel controlled. She would always want to know what I was doing, didn't allow me to go to the gym alone (by now allowing I mean making a big fight), buy clothes on my own or drop by the mall, I couldn't go to a store without telling her upfront (and she'd usually insist to go with me). I stopped seeing my friends because she didn't trust them and was very judgmental of them. It really became hard for me to see them. A couple times very good friends from out of town flew in and she made a crisis out of it and I didn't get to see them. So all I have outside of our mutual circle of friends are my old friends, but I never see them. She also prohibited me from skydiving, which is something I loved doing, otherwise she would break up with me. She told me it was selfish and suicidal. This crisis were always aggressive, many time offensive, and sometimes really got out of control, and to me were always uncalled for.

I could never really argue or explain where I was without her getting angry. I remember one day when I went to the mall without her because I was buying her a present. She called me while I was there, I told her I was at the mall, she got really angry and upset and hung up on me. Later on we had a even bigger fight because of that. And as I said it sometimes got very aggressive, verbally. 

I realize I never fully committed to her, in the sense of making her feel like she's the love of my life, I think because of all the issues we had. But I never did anything that warranted suspiciousness. I'm not a flirt and I've always been the quiet shy guy, although I think I'm a little above average in attractiveness. In all honesty and I think is important to know, I find her attractive but there's a difference in looks between us, which has caused some issues like making her insecure and making me wonder if the neighbor's grass - although I never cheated or did anything in that sense.

But all in all when there are no crisis I enjoy her company, we both like going to the movies, eating out, going to the gym, running, have similar tastes in music, like to travel, like animals, etc. and we do everything together, a little too much even.
I like being around her home and her family, like her mom's meals and how her dad makes me feel at home, sends me food to take home, etc. Her family definitely isn't perfect, but is a lot more than what I have.

My father and my mother always had a lot of conflict and verbal abuse in their marriage. My dad was absent, travelled a lot, and my mom was depressed. He left us for a girl younger than my sister when I was 15 (my sister was 18), and my mother became an alcoholic and still is to this day. I was the last in my family to move out of our home (at age 25) and endured my mother alcoholism all those years, most of them alone with her. My two sisters live in different cities, one close to my mother who now lives with my schizophrenic aunt, and the other sister lives in the opposite side of the country, close to the rest of our family. My sister up north lives with her mate and has 3 children, but was never legally married. My younger sister is working hard to make it on her own, paying school debt, rent, etc. My father was never very well off and never offered much assistance. I started working full time when I was 19 and since I have a good job I help my mother and my young sister support themselves. My father is now 62 and has a 1 year old daughter with a girl in her early 20's. He lives in the same city as I do so I try to have a good relationship with him, apart from all the resentment. I live alone.

So back to my relationship. My girlfriend knows my family and their issues and accepts them, although she resents my father for what he did. 

I never had much well being at home , and the love and affection I get from my girlfriend mean the world to me, although I feel very constricted with her at times, and resent the aggressive behavior and control issues. 

When we were about 6 months into the relationship she asked me about kids and marriage and I said I wanted them but that I didn't feel we were ready as a couple. After that moment that issue became a very big resentment for her, and it's always been the central issue in all our fights.

I understand that it feels like rejection which is always very painful. Every time we fight about it I try to explain what I need to feel at ease for marriage, which is a stable relationship and respect for me to be who I am, do what I do, see my friends, etc, without all the destructive fighting and aggressiveness that always happens in our arguments, or the passive aggressiveness when I do something not to her liking. I grew up in an unstable home, with verbal abuse between my parents, lots of fights, physical abuse at times, uncontrollable crisis with my alcoholic mother, so that peacefulness is very important to me.

She always gets angry at my reasons for not marrying and accuses me of it being an excuse not to marry her because in reality I don't love her enough, and if there was enough love that wouldn't be an issue. 

It is true that I never fell in love with her, but I know I love her. I know I have dependency issues and that she fulfills my needs for love and affection, which is a big reason why I have stayed this long, but then again is also the reason why I love her. But it is true that I have restrictions because of our unresolved issues, and I haven't felt like the relationship is healthy enough to commit.

But the pressure to marry kept growing, from her family, friends, everyone. We had big fights because of that, its pretty much the only area where I didn't cave in our relationship. What I mean by that is I feel like I let go of a lot of things like having the freedom to do those little things without hassle, seeing friends, skydiving, etc, which of course I feel is wrong, and I'm standing my ground on marriage, despite the terrible drama and fights and cold shoulders, tentative breakups and all. We had MANY MANY fights because of that.

What bothers me the most is that I never felt understood for real, never perceived real empathy from her in understanding why those things are important to me and putting a sincere effort in doing that for me. In fact, up to this day the only thing she's told me about it is that those things are all excuses not to marry her, that no couple is perfect, and that in reality I just don't love her enough.

And this week it seems like she had enough and decided to break up for good, after we came back from a trip to Australia. She told me that we can't go on like this and we broke up, but the way I see it is like an ultimatum, again. She also told me she thought she is having all these feelings again because she's exchanged a couple emails with her ex boyfriend, which was her first bf and that asked her to marry him, but that she refused, back when she was 22. He's now divorced, and he told her that everyone of their friends is now married with children. She also told me in the heat of the fight that if she could go back in time 10 years she would marry him.

So this is where I am at. I love her and understand her dream which is to be married, have a family, stable companionship, everything that marriage entails, which is something I also want for me, and I feel really bad for denying her that. But I resent her for not working on our relationship and putting a sincere effort or even acknowledging the importance of those issues for me. I don't like having to walk on eggshells and feeling controlled, and also really dislike the aggressive emotional outbursts, that in fact remind me of my mother crisis when she was drunk.

Just as a note, her jealousy issues didn't start in this relationship, she has a history there and even told me a psychologist told her jealousy was very excessive. She didn't stay in therapy though. I've been going to therapy the past 6 months, largely because of our relationship. But I also did about 5 years of therapy when I was in my early 20's.

Alright, thanks for reading all of this. Any feedback is very welcome.

J.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Run - don't walk - away - unless you want to live the rest of your life with someone wanting to know where you are, who your with, what your doing, when you'll be home - every second of every day. I was married to a control freak....it wears on you and eventually your going to have enough and walk out. Better to do it now than later when your married, potentially with kids. You deserve a better relationship. Without all the fighting, questioning, non-trust issues you have now.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

If you're not in love with her, if you have issues with her that seem to never get resolved, if you're just not all that happy with her in general, then it's better to walk away. It sounds like you have simply settled for her because you feel you need a relationship, she guilted you into it, and she was there. It sounds like that's really the only reason you're still with her - because she's there and she makes you feel like you have to be. 

You deserve to find someone you truly can fall in love with, someone you are truly happy with, and someone you enjoy. 

I also think when it comes to marriage, if you really want to be married to someone, you aren't this hesitant. Yes, there might be some second thoughts, some cold feet, some wondering if there are still some wild oats to be sown, but for the most part, I think you just know when you want to marry someone and spend the rest of your life with them. 

You're too hesitant - that tells me you know it's wrong and that you shouldn't marry her. So don't. If you really feel like you can't just break up with her, then just tell her you won't marry her. Chances are, if it's that important to her, she'll break up with you. And if she doesn't...then it's time to get some, uh...courage, and break up with her.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

utterlyblue said:


> My father and my mother always had a lot of conflict and verbal abuse in their marriage. My dad was absent, travelled a lot, and my mom was depressed.


Ironic how your relationship is a mirror image of your parents. You'll keep seeing this over and over until you change. 



utterlyblue said:


> I don't love her enough, and if there was enough love that wouldn't be an issue.


You will keep finding women that tell you that your love isnt good enough because that is the kind of emotional atmosphere you grew up with being the child of an alcoholic mother. It is your way of resolving things from your past. Eventually you will accept that you're love is good enough. But it will have to come from you, not some one else. You'll also continue to be with women you dont really love because its safe and you're in control. There's a good book out there that you should read called Seat of the Soul. That and alanon meetings and things could turn around for you.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Well think of it this way... imagine how bad it's going to be with her as an x-wife.

You don't get married unless YOU have a strong green light to do so.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Walk away and keep walking into therapy to heal yourself.


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## Dontknowhow2love (Aug 13, 2010)

I didn't even have to read your whole message to know the answer to your question. I think you already know too. If you have to ask the question then there is a problem. When you marry that is forever not until reality sets in. wake up and do what you need to do to be happy. When you find a woman that you love and want to marry there will be no doubts in your mind. trust me on that. You will know because you will be trying to run to the alter. You won't be able to imagine your life without her because she will complete you in such a way that you will be at peace with your decision.

best wishes on what ever choice you decide.


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## marriagesucks (Sep 24, 2010)

My advice. Please DO NOT get married. That said, I see her point. I understand why she is jealous... Women are intuitive. She can feel you are not fully committed and you mentioned there is a difference in looks that makes her feel insecure. Those two things are the reason she acts the way she does. Many women in her shoes would act that way. I was in a relationship with someone I thought was my soulmate, but he did not want to marry. He had a difficult unstable upbringing too. We both had emotional dependency issues coming from feelings of abandonment during childhood. We had a deep level of love and closeness and incredible physical chemistry. We had everything in common. Which is why I couldn't understand what the problem was. Oh yeah, we argued a lot and had terrible fights. I gave him ultimatums. We break up. He would go out with other girls -- even prettier ones, but could not find the "connection" he found with me. So he came back. I think he did not think of me as the ideal girl he envisioned himself marrying. But being with me felt so good, like a drug...he didn't want to give it up. He never admitted he didn't want to get married. Always said, first we have to work on this or that. I finally moved away and lost my emotional attachment to him. 

All relationships need work. But you were really not into it in the beginning. It is your guilt and your need for emotional dependency that keeps you there. Those are WRONG reasons. You are doing her a favor by letting her go. I have learned to fix my dependency issues by healing the relationship with my family. You do have to work on yourself and be healthy emotionally to have a healthy relationship.

Good luck!


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanks for the comments and for your honesty.

I´m really lost about all this. I really miss her and it really hurts.

I feel like no one has ever done as much or cared as much about me as she has.

But no one has ever been as intolerant, harsh or agressive with me either.

I'm not infatuated, but I haven't been since my early teens and I don't think that´s what makes relationship work and last.

I feel very guilty for leaving her hanging, but it´s also extremely difficult to let her go OR to commit the way things are. As my therapist said: "either way you're screwed".

It might in the end be an excuse for not owning up to my responsibility but in my heart I feel like the pressure to marry it´s so unilateral and oppressive, I almost feel like means to an end.

Honestly to God I understand the urgency and the biological clock issue. She has told me several times she won´t have kids after 35, and I understand that if she needs to start a new relationship it will take time.

I love her and I really want our relationship to grow and mature, but now, not after marriage. I want her to trust me more and respect me more, which will lead to more intimacy and trust on my part. It´s really hard to feel at ease about marrying when I can´t even go through the drive-thru to get some food on my way home without being accused of going there to flirt/cheat. I know it sounds absurd but it is the kind of thing that happens weekly. What makes it worse for me is that she won´t ever apologize, and she´ll tell me it´s always my fault, either because I did or didn´t do something. And it´s not only in the heat of the moment. If I go and ask her today what she thought about that drive-thru incident she´ll tell me I should have asked for food when I was at her place, or that she´s jealous because I haven´t commited to her. Honestly, everytime she got upset and angry at me was justified with me not having commited, with me not making her feel safe, since about 6 months into the relationship.

But I love her - although it seems weird to say that after all the things I´ve said here. I love the way she giggles, plays with me, knows how to take care of plants, animals, how she's cooked things for me, how she takes care of her health, how she´s kind to other people, how she´s thoughful and always do nice things for people, my family, or for me. 

But I really want to feel heard, to feel understood. I wanna feel I have value other than marriage and reproductive value. I want to feel respect and love for who I am. Once she told me after a break up that she really missed me and really just wanted to be with me, even if we never ever married. That really touched my heart and made me feel loved. But a few days later we have an argument and she says she regretted saying that and says it´s really my issue, because how can she be a good friend, sister, daughter and not be fit for marriage.

But I still lover her. And I know I sound crazy and dependent.

Thanks again for all the comments.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

My comment: no marry, no walk away, just wait and see until you're totally sure about her and yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriagesucks (Sep 24, 2010)

After I read your post, I shook my head.

You sound just like my x that spent 5-6 years with who would never commit. Yes, he loved me. He would have a lot of kind things to say about me. I told him my clock was ticking and I wanted to know if he was serious about marriage. That I didn't want to be 40 and find out he doesn't want marriage and then I won't have time to meet someone else. Well, he kept me hanging and I don't have children. 

What you are doing is so unfair. So unfair. She is NOT the one for you. And it seems you have some issues that you need to resolve so you can have a healthy relationship. 

When i broke up with my first husband, we stayed in touch. I know he loved me. He wanted to get back. When I was in between boyfriends I would call him. I realized that when I did it prevented him from moving on with his life. Even though he was so important to me. I made the decision to lose contact with him. It was painful for me. But I knew if I didn't he would be in limbo the rest of his life. He needed to be free of me so he could go on to find someone for himself which he deserved.

Believe me. If you really love her, you will let her go! Keeping her would be very selfish.

This marriage would not work. Too many problems communicating and your not married. It gets harder after marriage. It almost seems that you want something from her to help you satisfy an issue that may have come from your childhood experiences. 

I would be interested to learn what you decide.


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanks for taking the time. I don´t think it is fair either, and I would never want her to miss the chance to constitute family. I understand the gravity of the issue and it's always been in the back of my mind, every day. 

In my defense I never lied to her or gave false hopes, I´ve always been honest about how I felt about the relationship. I always said we needed to sort out our issues between us before we could marry, and that I needed stability before I could consider it, that I resented the control and the anger. None of us was satisfied, and I knew we needed a resolution, it felt like a clock bomb.

But I never left either, so I understand her confusion and resentment. Like when she asks me "I'm good enough to be your girlfriend, but not your wife?". 

I know full well now that I'm very codependent, and I know that made matters worse. I never though I´d stay with someone after all the ofenses, yelling and screaming and out of control arguments. She never physically attacked me, but almost crashed her car twice and got so angry before that I really feared something bad would happen, so I hid knives and anything dangerous. She has lost her voice yelling at me more than a handful of times. I got pretty good at avoiding getting her upset.

A couple days ago she showed up at my place saying she wanted to talk. I wasn't there and while I was driving home to meet her I noticed how terrified I was, and how many times this has happened before. Because I knew the only possible outcome of that talk would be agression and pain. That was one more realization this can´t be right. 

To make it a little shorter she verbally assaulted me with all she got. I never defended myself, because whatever I say only makes matters worse. She knows me well, knows my insecurities and my traumas and just poured it on me. Accused me of being selfish, of not caring for my family, and a bunch of other things that hurt like hell. The she looked in my eyes witht the most enraged face I´ve seen and said I had destroyed her, that I had just equaled myself to the only boyfriend she ever hated (an alcoholic that lied and cheated on her), and that she would erase me from her life, throw me in the garbage and everything else related to me. Then she started praying out loud and asking God to take me and everything related to me away from her heart, along with all the hatred she felt. That really hurt me and I was crying like I never did. Then all of a sudden she changed her praying and started to pray for me, saying I was a good son, that she couldnt understand how I feel, etc. And started to hug me and take care of me, brought ice for my face, and said a lot of nice things. It sort of creeped me out but I was totally wasted emotionally.

A couple more days go with me avoiding contact and she calls me angry again. I enter the same mode: say as little as possible and only what she wants to hear, so that she doesn´t get even angrier and do something stupid. She again poured it on me. I don´t react. She calls again, I don´t pick up. She calls 15 times. When she realizes I won´t pickup she starts sending messages saying that God had touched her heart and she needed to share it with me, being all nice, exactly the opposite of what she had done 5 minutes ago. It totally creeped me out.

It became clearer than ever to me that this isn´t healthy, and that two episodes were exactly like when I was living with my alcoholic mother. I heard a lot about repeating our life stories but this is just ridiculous. I need safety in my life not unpredictability and danger. 

I´m avoiding all contact. I didn´t go to work yesterday since we work in the same floor. Today I´m working somewhere else. At night I stay away from my apartment in case she shows up. I'm thinking about taking a couple weeks off work and going somewhere else.

I´m trying to be strong and trying to keep in mind that I´m not just a jerk leading her on because I don´t wanna marry, and even if I was that would be no excuse to be abusive to me like that. Everbody is entitled to feel angry but this is totally destructive and is NOT an isolated event.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why on earth would you want to be married to a person who seems to not care one whit about whether YOU are happy?

That's not love. That's convenience.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

if you want to spend the rest of your life living like this (being verbally attacked and then consoled when she has "won" the argument), hang around.

This will NOT get better.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

In an unhealthy way I can see how you are attracted to someone with an all-consuming interest in you.

But in a healthy way, who wants to be totally consumed by another person?

You're not a possession.

Get away from her!


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

You are NOT a jerk for not being ready to marry her. I don't care how many clocks are ticking, it's not your responsibility in life to fulfill this woman's reproductive needs. You have been honest that you are not ready for marriage and have expressed some of the areas in which the relationship would need to change for your to consider marriage and she has ignored you ... that's on her, not you. Don't let anyone guilt-trip you about not being ready for marriage. If you're not ready, you are NOT ready and that's your truth. There's no "right" or "wrong" about that. It just is.

Anyway, to address the bigger issues. This is a co-dependent relationship. Duh, right?! You said that yourself. Not all love is healthy. You know that having grown-up with an alcoholic mother whose "love" was like toxic nuclear waste down your throat each day. You sound like such a bright and strong young man. And, despite, currently repeating your past like the worst psychological cliche, you are AWARE of what you are doing. You KNOW that this isn't healthy, that's it's a re-creation of something ugly and dark in your past. 

Sure ... you doubt yourself. You let friends or her friends or her family or strangers on forums confuse you into thinking she's just a girl with a ticking reproductive clock that loves you and feels insecure because you won't marry her. But you KNOW that's not it - it's clearly not that simple. 

This girl is f***ed in the head. She's aggressive. She's abusive. She's co-dependent. She's selfish. She's a little bit psychotic/bi-polar, if you ask me. And HER love, like your mother's love is like toxic acid down your throat. Sure, they then dump down some honey to confuse you. But don't let that honey make you forget that, little by little, they are ripping at the core of you who are. Go skydiving. See your friends. Do what you love. Anyone you meet that tries to take away everything that you have and replace it by just them is being selfish, NOT loving. They want you like a possession, not like people want each other from a place of love. True love wants to see the other person happy, fulfilled, challenged, growing, engaged in many ways with the world around them. True love doesn't put a noose around your neck and choke any time you don't do as they say.

Now's a good time to get those old friends around you for support to get through this co-dependent pull to take her back. Taking some time off work is a great idea - you need some time to get strong and keep your resolve. For those instances when you get "caught" by her (because she WILL stalk you for a while), establish a line and repeat it to her over and over ... "It's over between us and I am done. I wish you luck. Please stop contacting me". Don't say anything other than that line. Sounds almost crazy, but her kind of crazy when she's in that mental space requires it. You don't get caught up in answering questions, in asking questions, in reassuring, in arguing, in trying to explain yourself, in falling into traps or abusive rants. That's it. She shows up and starts wanting to talk, you calmly say, "It's over between us ... blah... blah" and then cut off contact (walk away, hang up, etc). Stick to it for dear life and she will go away.

You'll be sad, you'll miss her, you might convince yourself at times that you did love and should've just married her. That's all fear and pathology talking. I don't know you ... but I can tell you with 100% certainty .. this is NOT the girl for you. Move on. And, next time, don't just fall into a relationship. Take care to get into one only because you actively want to. And, given you past, you'll always have to do some serious crazy-sifting before you get in too deep. Our parental-reincarnations are just too good at finding us and re-finding us in our lives.

You are not your alcoholic mother's little boy anymore. You are a grown man and THIS time, you CAN walk away and you WILL be just fine. As a child, you NEEDED your mother and that's what made you dependent then ... you WERE dependent because that's what children are. You don't have to be co-dependent anymore. That time is over now. Find a way to release it and these ghosts may just stop coming back to hunt your present. That's what this girl is - a ghost. You don't marry ghosts of your past. You exorcise them.


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

You might just have said everything I wanted to hear, but thank you so much.

That´s exactly how I feel and It´s a relief to know I´m not the only one who sees the situation like that, that I´m not just justifying myself or blowing things out of proportion.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ms. Lady,
That was a fantastic response and I agree 100%. 

My husband's best friend married a girl because "it is time and he owed it to her". I asked him if he loved her and his response was telling: "what's not to love, she's a lawyer and owns her own home". I thought he was joking. Fast forward 9 years now and they are divorcing. She married him because of a ticking clock and her married her because he felt it was his duty. Now their is a daughter in the mix who did nothing wrong but will feel ALL of the fallout. 

Do not under any circumstance marry someone because you feel obligated. Marriage is a lifetime commitment. Everybody says life is short. I think life is really really long if you marry the wrong person!


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

I was reading the posts and your responses,..above you replied saying in defense of yourself you never misled her, you told her you need to resolve issues before you marry...

to some degree i would have to disagree with that statement as I dont feel its completely honest, you are holding that up as a means to put off marriage, but truth be told, its impossible to 'resolve all issues' before marrying...you are both human, imperfect, so there will always in any relationship be issues..once you get married, some new ones in any marriage can surface..so in that way it seems maybe your using that as a way to comfort yourself that you are not misleading her, you merely need to work thru things first..
I am not diminishing the importance of what you need for a little space sometimes to be with friends, for more respect for you etc. 
all Im saying is that it seems like if she wasnt jealous for example, let's say she ate too much, then that would probably be your reason for needing to wait for marriage..

i think its unfair to her but it sounds like it works out for you, she ends up feeling used, and that fuels her insecurity


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

I was reflecting about why I wrote in this forum, and why I'm checking back so often. And I think the reasons are pretty obvious: I'm looking for support, validation and some perspective. In that order I guess.

Finding guilt and attributing responsibility to someone else for your problems is definitely a lot easier that owning up to it. I'm trying not to fall in that trap, that's why I am asking for input.

I acknowledge I entered the relationship without being in love. I didn't feel like we were a great match and I sensed those red flags. But I couldn't say no to her love and affection, and as I said, those meant a lot to me. And you can't be appreciative of someone's love and affection without loving them back. So I did love her back, and a lot. 

But I also think our relationship wasn't healthy. I'm struggling to stay away from her and so I'm trying to remember everything that didn't feel right. And honestly, I really think she was being very abusive, and that I deserve better. I'm not trying to squash her or invalidate her feelings, but I need to vent this.

So this endless rant I am about to make is an attempt to feel better about myself and stick to it. These are some memories of the things that made me feel bad in one way or another and that I consider were abusive:

- in the first weekend after we started dating I went out for lunch with a friend, like I used to do every weekend. She called me and she got very angry about it. She said couples should always do things together, etc. That was my first red flag. I never went out alone with him again (which is totally absurd of me).

- she started to get very jealous of any woman. I used to have express massages at work (you know, those in the chair), and she made a crisis out of it several times. I stopped and she continued having the massage. Fair stuff.

- she accused me an infinite amount of times (yeah, that many) of looking at other women. She would pinch me or kick me if I laughed at it - I got real bruises from it. I think she stopped with the bruises when I told her half-joking that I would turn her in for domestic violence. As a result of this jealousy I stopped talking to all women except cashier and clerks, that if they weren't good looking otherwise she'd accuse me of flirting. Also I had to walk around paying attention where I was looking and actively avoiding women. It gets stressful. She was even jealous of my sister. What's funny is that my previous girlfriend told me exactly the opposite, that I was very trustworthy and that I never looked at other women. 

- she didn't like me to see my friends, as I've said before. So that became stressful for me too. They would call me and I really ran out of excuses not to see them. So I started to avoid picking up the phone when they called me. When they called me and she was around I pretended the phone wasn't ringing, because I knew it would lead to an argument. The irony is she has more guy friends that I do, and talks to them no problem.

- I could never talk on the phone without her wanting to know who it was. She also prohibited me from using instant messengers. Prohibited = accusations, anger and drama.

- It became so common for her to send me nasty text messages late at night that whenever I heard my phone ring it made my heart race. Seriously. I didn't notice that till much later. These nasty messages could be about anything related to jealousy or accusations.

- as I said she prohibited me of skydiving, which is something deeply meaningful to me, and she knows it. I've always been fascinated about flying and skydiving is the closest to it I got in my life. So much that when we went to see my grandma earlier this year, after 10 years without seeing her, she was in a hospital bed and it was the first thing the told my girlfriend, this story about how I used to ask her what I had to do to fly when I was a small kid. And she made a lot of drama, accused me of being selfish and threatened to break up if I continued with it. Isn't that selfish?

- talking about threats, I never threatened break up. She did it so many times. And every time it was extremely stressful. She went cold on me and withheld affection many many times. All the while pretending everything was alright when she was among friends.

- I have a mildly high blood pressure, and it gets quite high if I get stressed. So much that my cardiologist wanted me to take pills for it (and I'm 29). But I decided to try to regulate it with exercise (more on that later…), because it had worked for me before. Also, my grandma, grandfather, uncle and aunt had brain strokes. AND none of them had high blood pressure. So I think it's understandable that I would like to take care of my health. But whenever I told her that I had to avoid fights and getting stressed she accused me of using that as an excuse, so I stopped mentioning it. She never toned down the tantrums and rage episodes. Really didn't seem like she gave a f*** about it. Whenever I mentioned I needed to go check up on my bp or that I needed to exercise she would just say I was being dramatic and that my bp only went up because I worried about it. 

- about exercising, it was really hard for me to work out. She worked out in the same gym, and I could only go when she did. And she'd constantly accuse me of looking at other women, EVERY DAY. And once stopped going because she was studying, I couldn't go either. And I need it to keep my blood pressure low.

- she also didn't like me to wear new/nice clothes, especially if she wasn't around (like when I had to work somewhere else or go to meetings, etc.) And if there was any woman involved then it would be even worse.

- I always supported her in her study and went to 4 different cities in the country for these exams she had to take. In one of those I hurt my shoulder from carrying her heavy luggage all around. And that was fine, I never blamed her for it, of course. I mention this because she didn't want me to go to the doctor and made a hell of a crisis because I had to go to physiotherapy. I did some sessions but she kept saying it was useless and things of the sort - but I know it was because physiotherapists are usually women. So it's been 5 months and my should still hasn't completely healed. I also think this is selfish.

- she accused me of letting my family exploit me financially, because I help my mother and my sister support themselves. Yet she would go in debt and borrow money from me, not pay back and accuse me of being cheap and getting angry if I asked for that money when I didn't have enough. She would say I'd pay everything for any other girlfriend but not for her. Which is just absurd. My last girlfriend paid her share of things even though she made a lot less money. And she went into to debt because she loves clothes, not because she has to pay the rent or support her family.

- she would also say I didn't have enough savings for the future, that I spend too much money. At the same time she'd say bad things about my car how it is too old and stuff in front of other people who have better cars than me. But I didn't buy a new car yet because I don't want to spend my savings. Makes sense?

- last year she decided she wanted to get breast implants. I respected that but I didn't like the idea, I read up a lot on it and just though that there were too many risks. But she did anyway, and I supported her. But I got really mad when she wouldn't let me go with her to the doctor because she would have to show her breasts to him. Not because I was extremely jealous but because I just found that so unfair after all her jealousy crisis. I couldn't go have my hair cut alone and she needed go show this 40 years old doctor how her new breasts look WITHOUT me? I think thats disregard for my feelings and just selfish too. 

- as I said before, she wouldn't let me go and see anyone or go anywhere without asking first, and usually if she didn't want or couldn't go I wasn't going either.

- she is very intolerant and I can't make mistakes. I can't step on her toes accidentally without she raising her voice and calling me awkward or accusing me of never paying attention. I can't forget things. I always have to be thoughtful. She intolerant of everyone, not just me. She's also homophobic. Thinks gay people are all promiscuous and inherently defective. She gets angry when she sees a gay couple.

- I told her a couple of times that she treated her friends better than she treated me and I thought that was weird. She said "of course, we have intimacy" as if intimacy allowed for abuse.

- she usually plays nice and doesn't do nasty things when we are among friends. In the beginning I found that really disturbing. We just had a fight in private and 5 minutes later she was laughing out loud with co workers while I was really upset. Also when I know there is something in the air I start avoiding being alone with her because I know thats when she will release her anger. 

- and what is the worse of all to me: she never takes any responsibility for her behavior. She says it's ALL because I didn't commit to her. And I've been thinking about this, and I probably bought into that stuff because I noticed that I really stopped standing up for myself about 6 months into the relationship, when she first asked me about marriage and I said we weren't ready.

- but… everything is fine… as long as I stay on track (her tracks)… oh yeah, and that we get married.

I sound bitter and sarcastic… I guess I just had too much of that.

Thanks for reading.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Utterly,
You do not sound bitter and sarcastic. You sound like you are sad that things didn't work out and feel guilty because of it. She was not the right person for you. Anybody you in essence have to convince yourself to love is not the right person for you. Yes, you loved her but you never had that spark or connection or in love feeling. True love has many many stages. It starts with "in love". That butterflies in your stomach feeling and that yearning to be around each other all the time. This lessons after about 2 years and becomes more of a wanting to be around the other person but without the butterflies. At this point, the newness of the relationship has worn off a bit and you feel more secure and open with one another. Fast forward many many more years and the relationship deepens even more. It is about sacrificing for the common good of you two. This is the tough phase in that if one sacrifices everything and the other does nothing....resentment breeds big time. Hatred even. Divorce. If both tow the line however and communicate needs, wants, desires, you can make it through this phase. The last phase is total acceptance. That kind of love is the lasting love. You know your partner well enough and she knows you. You are now free to be totally open and honest with one another without fear, without blame, without hurt. Do you ever see a happy elderly couple just walking together? They just seem to "get" each other. It is because they have gone through all the phases and made it through. 
If you never had the butterflies and stage one, there is literally nothing to build on.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Unless you have a very bright internal "green light" on marriage, don't marry. The risks are just enormous otherwise.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, doesn't sound like a very great match.


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## Beverley (Oct 26, 2010)

I think the problem really does lie with her and not with you. You have had a tough time and seem to be able to put things into perspective with both your relationship and your past.

She's the one that needs help with trust issues, jealousy etc. If you go ahead and marry, you are opening yourself up to a lifetime of misery.

There is someone out there for you - don't settle for second best.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

I think you wer trying to be true to yourself in the beginning by not getting serious, but then it kept going. Time to women usually means things are getting more serious. There was a disconnect between your actions of staying and your vibe of not wanting something serious. You being co-dependent kept you with the narcisist you found in her. Everything is about her.

Stay strong and stay away, you may need to change jobs if you work on the same floor... trust me it would be worth it. You cant even consider going back with her. Find someone who embraces your skydiving or whatever you enjoy! It should feel natural, but you may not know what it feels like bc you say you love HER, but you clearly didnt... you were confussing needing her with loving her, being confused by her with loving her. You may have cared about her bc of the time that had passed, but where there is control and abuse there is no love. Maybe talk about that with your therapist, the confusion about what love is. Love is action, its a verb its how we treat someone... you treated her like she wasnt important and she treated you like you were a mouse in a hole only letting you pop your head up when she felt like it... with a leash on! She didnt love you either, she heard her bio clock and wanted a baby... you were her tool... her narcisstic supply.

Good to have her gone. Bets of luck in your growth of self and boundaries and then you will understand love better. I did it, you can too!


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

somethings were her fault...the bottom line to me though, is that you did mislead her and used her, for companionship you enjoyed. It wasnt a game to her, you were aware of her value of marriage, ..if it was just a companion you wanted, you did not do the right thing by allowing her to continue down this path.
Yes, she sounds jealous, but I would bet much of that was caused by your less than serious ways that made her feel insecure. 
sometimes i wish i lived a hundred years ago when men did the right thing by women and were honorable in how they treated a woman. Not using someone to be a companion or meet their own needs. Obviously your not the only man who does this, but it doesnt make it right..


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

Laelsmom,

I respect your opinion but I don't think it's right for you to accuse me of using her. I never did. I was always honest about how I felt, I didn't mislead her. I never said "hang on, will be marrying in a bit" while I cheated on her, lied, was abusive or did anything like that. 

I gave 100% to the relationship in the sense that I got involved, I compromised, I accepted her love and loved her back. I bought books, I went to therapy, I sought counseling. But the relationship didn't feel healthy enough to commit for life. And I was always honest about that, I told her the things that made me unhappy and stressed out.

Honestly, do you think that the lack of engagement or marriage, because that was it was, not a lack of commitment, justifies all that kind of abusive behavior? Of treating me like s*** when she felt like it? This behavior has been present since the beginning, not after I said we weren't ready for marriage.

Come to think about it I don't think she was committed to me or the relationship. She was committed to her goal of getting married and having children. Nothing wrong with having that goal, but it should be the fruit of a happy, healthy relationship. I communicated my needs several times, and I NEVER, NOT ONCE, saw her acknowledge any of it, let alone make an effort to change. She didn't seem to care if I was happy or not, if I was feeling depressed, if my blood pressure went through the roof, if I felt disrespected, as long as I married her.

And I was't asking her to loose weight or to put breast implants - I was just asking to not to be shouted at, to be respected in my needs, which are nothing more than what anyone expects to have as a free, adult individual. Instead what I got was abuse. If you don't think what I described is abusive I suggest you reevaluate your own actions.

I never described everything that happened between us in detail like I did in this forum, because honestly, I am ashamed of it. But writing about all this made me realize just how absurd it is.

I never treated anyone like that in my life and I never will. 

I really miss her and I think about calling her all the time, but I know there is no hope of change. This is painful.

I am codependent and I have a huge bag of issues, but I acknowledged that a long time ago. I didn't see any effort on her part, apart for holding me responsible for everything that is wrong. By the way, she made a big crisis because she didn't want me to go back to therapy - "you'll break up with me if you go back to therapy", she said.

I gave her respect, love, care, and got affection in return, plus a lot of abuse. If not marrying someone in a relationship like this makes me an user, so be it. I am responsible for the relationship just like she is.

I'm holding on to my anger so I have some respect for myself.


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

it just seems like from things you said in your original post, such as how you liked affection you got from her and companionship, you also stated how you got alot from spending time with her family, her mom's cooking, her dad would give you stuff like food to take home, etc. and how you really got something from this.., 
that is what makes me feel you were getting your needs met, such as intimacy, companionship, being part of a family, her mom making you meals, etc. but even when you knew her goal of marriage (afterall, you guys arent kids, your thirty so an age when most people are on that level of dating for marriage)...it just seems sad to me that it seems like you were getting stuff, your needs met, but you took up almost 3 yrs of her life, ALOT of time at that age, which should indicate your intent is serious. All Im saying it was wrong to continue to glean things from her, and allowing her to continue down this path of towards marriage. It was almost cruel in my opinion to do that..by the time you were together over a year, at your guys age, and you knew she had the goal of marriage, you should have either let her go, or marry her. But gleaning things you needed -your own words- from her and the relationship, while disregarding hers, just isnt right imo


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

I never gleaned things from her, I was in an adult relationship and I guarantee you that if it wasn't good for her she would have left me long ago. I gave her A LOT of good things. Why else would she wanna marry me? As to having my needs met, read my posts again. I had companion, affection and intimacy as long as I did exactly what she wanted me to, and how she wanted me to.

She just came over to my home trying to FORCE me into talking to her. When I refused she went totally out of control. That's what I have to live.

Again I respect your opinion, but I disagree with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She needs mental help.


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

i guess this should be my last post, I dont want to turn this into an argument...you came here for input..I am giving my input, but it seems like you want to convince everyone that you were somehow a victim, but I think she was more the victim than you..you keep listing all these things she did that were wrong, but you were there for apr 3 years, and yes, you did glean stuff from her, you said it yourself...its just that now that I pointed it out, you want to backtrack and make it sound better than what it was...
the fact that she at times became angry doesnt make you the victim, imo, she largely became angry because you were, basically in a sense using her and she sensed it..

the bottom line like i said, my input, which is what you came here to get, others input-- is that your 30 yrs old, not a kid...but you played along because you were the one gaining from the relationship....thats why she would get angry

i hope she finds a man next time who wont play her, and who will be honorable in his intent and treatment of her...
3 yrs is way too long to play games at your age


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## utterlyblue (Oct 23, 2010)

Ok, thank you for your input.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

laelsmom, this doesn't sound like a woman who just _sometimes gets angry_:



> Soon after we officially started dating I started to notice a lot of jealousy and feel controlled. She would always want to know what I was doing, didn't allow me to go to the gym alone (by now allowing I mean making a big fight), buy clothes on my own or drop by the mall, I couldn't go to a store without telling her upfront (and she'd usually insist to go with me). I stopped seeing my friends because she didn't trust them and was very judgmental of them. It really became hard for me to see them. A couple times very good friends from out of town flew in and she made a crisis out of it and I didn't get to see them. So all I have outside of our mutual circle of friends are my old friends, but I never see them. She also prohibited me from skydiving, which is something I loved doing, otherwise she would break up with me. She told me it was selfish and suicidal. This crisis were always aggressive, many time offensive, and sometimes really got out of control, and to me were always uncalled for.
> 
> I could never really argue or explain where I was without her getting angry. I remember one day when I went to the mall without her because I was buying her a present. She called me while I was there, I told her I was at the mall, she got really angry and upset and hung up on me. Later on we had a even bigger fight because of that. And as I said it sometimes got very aggressive, verbally.


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## savevsdeath (Nov 9, 2010)

Run like hell. No good can come of being with a jealous control freak.


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