# Did "No More Mr. Nice Guy" help?



## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

For those of you who have read and implemented "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, did it help in your relationship? If so, how? And, are there any of you who's SO introduced you to it as opposed to a friend or TAM? If so, how did she get you to read it?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

firebelly said:


> For those of you who have read and implemented "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, did it help in your relationship? If so, how? And, are there any of you who's SO introduced you to it as opposed to a friend or TAM? If so, how did she get you to read it?


All I can comment on is whether or not it helped me because I was the only one who cared enough to find literature. And no...it didn't help my problem. Feels like more of "self help" book than a relationship helper.

But others here have had more success with it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes... Well at least the second time. First time through, I sort of allowed myself to bend ‘what I want’ toward heavy consideration toward what my wife said she wanted me to be. I also kept it mostly secret. That didn’t help. 

Second time though, she’d broken me. So I did it for myself alone. And it did work... my wife started respecting this new man who had his own mind. The key though was just being absolutely open with my wife about what I was doing and why. She wasn’t allowed (though she tried) to really comment or critique. I walked her through my insanity and how my thoughts rolled forward like dominoes because I was trying for specific outcomes; which explains why I’d seem disappointed in her all the time... covert contracts, etc.. She also learned from watching me and the talks we’d have. She adopted a lot of it into her own changes.

At first, she hated it. It meant she lost control or a voice. But over time? She sort of hates admitting it, but she prefers the changes though she can’t put a finger on why since she lost a ton of control (which in her mind is still a bad thing and triggers insecurity)... 

So... I went from a sexless marriage, a completely disrespectful wife, an adulterous wife, misery and co-dependance for me... to a regular sex life, respect, faithfulness and self-confidence. It took a couple years though; no magic pill.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Well Sinnister...sorry. And Racer...awesome. I see the overall issue as my BF being too nice and I think that falls into the people pleaser spectrum. With that in mind, I keep wondering if this is the right book for him versus something on codependence or the myriad other books on people pleasing / assertiveness, etc. Any thoughts on that?


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Has he asked you for help?


No. I'm recoiling from him, he senses it and tries harder, I recoil more and I'm trying to figure out a way to explain to him why that keeps happening.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Well, the book says it improves some relationships and puts the others into long overdue graves...

I don't think the book or breaking your inner "Nice Guy" is supposed to help you in your relationship. It is supposed help you become a strong individual and make you live your life the way you want it, assertively, not passive-agressively and with trying to go with the flow. That being said, it will help your relationship with a healthy partner who loves you and cares about you. It helps breaking apart from dysfunctional relationships.

The book is awesome. It should be a mandatory read in schools everywhere.

"The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire" is a pretty good book also. And although I haven't read it myself "Hold on to your N.U.T.S" has pretty good reviews, too.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

One of the misgivings I have about this book is that I've gotten the impression that it's somewhere along the lines of "men need to be the head of their household" ala evangelical christianity or "take back their masculinity from the overly feminist culture" ala American conservativism. Not my cup of tea. I've also seen reviews on Amazon saying that the Freudian explanations for the behavior are misguided. But I've seen enough men on TAM extol it's virtues so have been curious. And now that I'm dealing with a man who I recoil from 'cuz he's too nice...I need to understand why.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I think it's happening because you're not over your divorce yet. Because the cure is like what you read in that other book about this dynamic. You come CLOSER to ease their insecurity. It's the exact opposite of what YOU want to do.
> 
> Besides the only person you have any control over is you. You're trying to make this square peg guy fit in your round peg hole. He's simply too needy for you right now. There is no genuine love there so all your efforts to help him will fall flat. "Recoil" is a pretty harsh word.
> 
> Just my .02


Thanks Mavash. I think you may be right...and it's why I've hesitated presenting the book or the idea of the book to him. He could be just a nice guy who I'm not ready to get close to.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

firebelly said:


> One of the misgivings I have about this book is that I've gotten the impression that it's somewhere along the lines of "men need to be the head of their household" ala evangelical christianity or "take back their masculinity from the overly feminist culture" ala American conservativism. Not my cup of tea. I've also seen reviews on Amazon saying that the Freudian explanations for the behavior are misguided. But I've seen enough men on TAM extol it's virtues so have been curious. And now that I'm dealing with a man who I recoil from 'cuz he's too nice...I need to understand why.


MMSL is basically the same. I like Athol's (an atheist BTW) Captain/First Officer approach. It is the same thing just worded better. The Captain takes consultation and listens to the First Officer but he gives the final say and has to live with the consequences. The Captain has to protect the "ship" (marriage) and do everything in his power to make sure it is safe.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

firebelly said:


> One of the misgivings I have about this book is that I've gotten the impression that it's somewhere along the lines of "men need to be the head of their household" ala evangelical christianity or "take back their masculinity from the overly feminist culture" ala American conservativism. Not my cup of tea. I've also seen reviews on Amazon saying that the Freudian explanations for the behavior are misguided. But I've seen enough men on TAM extol it's virtues so have been curious. And now that I'm dealing with a man who I recoil from 'cuz he's too nice...I need to understand why.


I read it once and now reading it again slower, putting more emphasis on the Breaking Free activities.

In nowhere in the book does it say "men need to be the head of their household." But it does say "men shouldn't be passive in their household or do stuff to gain other's appreciation". 

It doesn't bash feminism but it does say it created a horde of passively pleasing men and it's growing with every generation. . We can argue the reasons for this, but it won't change the reality of the situation.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> You have to bear with me I'm VERY protective of nice guys now that I understand them. They deserve a compassionate woman who don't feel the need to change them. You want him to change for YOU not because you have his best interests at heart and that simply won't work.


I am trying to figure out how to explain my lack of wanting to be close. It feels like more than just the fact that I'm not over my divorce yet and to that extent it is about ME. But, I do genuinely believe he is a people pleaser, which isn't good for him. I know because I'm a people pleaser too. I genuinely want to see him happy and think this tendency in him keeps him from getting what he truly wants.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

What do you mean by that exactly? Am I attracted to him? Or, how's the sex? Or something else? He's good looking. Dresses well. Has a pot belly that I'm not fond of but if everything else were better I don't think I'd focus on so much. The sex is...lackluster. He's not confident in bed. He doesn't turn me on like my ex did, but my ex was a jerk, so I kind of question what turns me on. I keep thinking of a quote by Dr. Gray in one of his books - "if you have a history of choosing bad boys and you meet a guy who turns you on like a blowtorch, run the other way." My BF doesn't turn me on like a blowtorch, so maybe that's a good thing? Yeah, not sure what to make of all this.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> How's the chemistry?


Ah...Mavash...just read another post of yours. Chemistry is obviously really important to you. It is to me too. Maybe that is part of the problem here. So, in your other post you say that you've been married for a long time. Your husband is your "nice guy" after a series of bad boys? But he still lights your fire? Was there a period when he was being really nice guy that he wasn't?


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I do think it helped me and us, but I can easily slip back into old habits. My wife would much prefer that I be more decisive in many areas. She would rather that I just take her instead of asking if she wants to have sex. If we are going for a drive or out to eat she would much prefer that I just plan it and make the decision instead of asking her (after forty plus years I already know what she would and would not like to do). It think it also helped me in every day life at work. I am such a "people pleaser" that I can make unwise decisions so that I don't hurt anyone's feelings. It is a process!


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## Sillyputty (Jan 22, 2013)

Your username brings to mind a book I read a few years back: _Fire in the Belly _by Sam Keen. He was one of the early founders of the mens movement so it might be somewhat dated but it's a good read (for both sexes). As others have alluded to, I will add, if he is not into self help or challenging his upbringing and beliefs, these books will fall on deaf ears. For what it's worth I dislike many of the pop-psych new age type of books... not because they are bad books but I feel they tend to rely too much on popular/feel good/quick fix type of rhetoric as opposed to the gritty gut-wrenching truths that all men must face.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

firebelly said:


> One of the misgivings I have about this book is that I've gotten the impression that it's somewhere along the lines of "men need to be the head of their household" ala evangelical christianity or "take back their masculinity from the overly feminist culture" ala American conservativism. Not my cup of tea. I've also seen reviews on Amazon saying that the Freudian explanations for the behavior are misguided. But I've seen enough men on TAM extol it's virtues so have been curious. And now that I'm dealing with a man who I recoil from 'cuz he's too nice...I need to understand why.


I've read the book and did not take it be hypermasculine or degrading feminisim. What it does is conceptualize the phenomenon, which also includes boys spending less time with their fathers and being taught how to be masculine by women. 

It also doesn't come across Freudian to me. I saw it more as a mix of Interpersonal Therapy (discussing relationship dynamics and patterns) and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (understanding faulty beliefs that impact our emotions and behaviors). I've been in therapy before 

All I can say is that working on me has led to me regaining some of my energy and assertiveness-the things that drew my W to me in the first place. So far I've seen changes within me and W is starting to respond positively though with some initial concern. In any case, I like the newer me, or I guess some of the older me that went into hiding before we got married.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Attraction is largely subconscious.

This sounds like you're trying to change him so he'll be attractive to you.

Better to give him a break and cut him loose.

BTW - what was your childhood like?


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Huge help, along with the techniques in Forbes Robbins Blair's Instant Self Hypnosis, which helped change behaviors & beliefs faster & easier than anything I've ever seen.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Conrad said:


> BTW - what was your childhood like?


Why? Is it that obvious that I have issues? 

Bipolar, closet drinker / drugger mom who was married four different times before I was 18. I got straight A's in school and clung to religion for some boundaries. Blah, blah, blah.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I take this to mean if you have a history of being turned on by only bad boys aka drama and chaos then you will have to be alert. You might also have to retrain yourself to have healthy sex instead of one that needs a bad boy to fuel it.
> 
> Make sense?


But not to settle for a nice guy who doesn't turn me on?


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I read it, probably need to read it again. But I think the thing that stuck in me most was the changes that I would need to make in a future relationship. Some of them can be adapted to try and help make my current one better, but the person I am with would just not take so many of those ideas well at all.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

firebelly said:


> Why? Is it that obvious that I have issues?
> 
> Bipolar, closet drinker / drugger mom who was married four different times before I was 18. I got straight A's in school and clung to religion for some boundaries. Blah, blah, blah.


Feeling exposed?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Yes this is part of the problem. You think if HE changes you'll be attracted to him and that won't work either.
> 
> I had chemistry the first time I kissed my husband. Felt electricity run through me and the sex was AMAZING!! And yes after 23 years together (21 married) he still lights my fire and no there was never a period when he didn't. We had problems yes and honestly sex was the glue that kept us together. No matter how much he might have 'smothered' me I still wanted to tear his clothes off. LOL


I honestly don't think this is the norm. When women feel smothered they start losing their sexual attraction, when it goes on for so long they may start to feel sexually repulsed or indifferent. Sometimes it is permanent, sometimes it isn't. More often than not, if the guy starts to emotionally detach a bit eventually, it isn't permanent.



Mavash. said:


> I take this to mean if you have a history of being turned on by only bad boys aka drama and chaos then you will have to be alert. You might also have to retrain yourself to have healthy sex instead of one that needs a bad boy to fuel it.
> 
> Make sense?


I have to completely agree with this. We cannot just throw the "Nice Guy"s under the bus and fail to look on the other side, if we want to make a healthy analysis. It is even said in the book : "When there is one dysfunctional person in the relationship, there is always two."

I understand that this may make you feel as though we are judging you harshly. You probably cannot see any faults on your side. But the thing is we cannot see the faults in ourselves as easy as we can see faults in others. Sometimes our own faults, may be giving us a faulty view of other people, thinking they have the problem, not us.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

I read it and things have improved a lot for me. What also helped was me working on me. I started working out, eating healthy, and i'm looking and feeling so much better. 

I'm getting my confidence back and with that, i'm becoming a better person to be around. I've also worked hard at controlling my emotions, specifically not getting upset as much at things. I'm a much more take charge type guy now, where before I was one of those "i dont care, what do you want to do" types.

I've seen a pretty good response from the wife so far.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Re: Did "No More Mr. Nice Guy" help?*



gbrad said:


> I read it, probably need to read it again. But I think the thing that stuck in me most was the changes that I would need to make in a future relationship. Some of them can be adapted to try and help make my current one better, but the person I am with would just not take so many of those ideas well at all.


You REALLY do need to read it again. It's not about relationships. It's about you. And yes, unless she's really, really screwed up, she will appreciate the changes. Why do you think she won't appreciate the ideas? You need to pay attention to how she acts, not what she says.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

It is entirely possible to be a good guy with the alpha traits of a bad boy. It's not an either-or thing.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

firebelly said:


> For those of you who have read and implemented "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, did it help in your relationship? If so, how? And, are there any of you who's SO introduced you to it as opposed to a friend or TAM? If so, how did she get you to read it?


My husband is NOT a reader... I am the reader... I bought the book out of pure curiosity....He's always been a bit of a passive soul.... We went through this together...(1st chapter or 2 anyway).... I really LIKE the way he is -for the most part, so I can't say he needed to change much -other than being more verbal in telling me WHAT FOR - when he wanted something....He knows he can say anything to me now, so he's upped this a great deal. No more sparing the wife. And I love it!

Taken from Amazon.com: No More Mr. Nice Guy! Books

Here is a list of NICE GUY Characteristics - Most guys have a few of these, but the headed for doormat status "NICE guys"- posses these in abundance . The book has more detail to each little item of coarse.



> Nice Guys are Givers
> 
> Nice Guys fix & Caretake
> 
> ...


There is problems with each one of those -*the motivation behind the doing is the issue*. What is happening is -- These men have been conditioned to believe that if they are "NICE" they will be loved, get their needs met and have a smooth life. 

Here is the "not-so nice" traits of Nice Guys ...



> Nice guys can be Dishonest, secretive, compartmentalized, manipulative, controlling, they give to get, passive aggressive, some are full of rage, additive, have difficulty setting boundaries, frequently isolated, often attracted to people & situations that need fixing, frequently have problems in intimate relationships, have issues with sexuality, usually only relatively successful .


Of course those are not true for every Nice guy, my husband fit 4 of those plus a few we considered halfs in his case.
The Nice Guy Test here >>>







 Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

This is the first I've heard of this book- Even reading the posts here made me feel like it was written just for me.

(The Nice Guy Test here >>> Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment)

I took the test and scored (39):
*33 - 39
You could be a poster child for the nice guy syndrome*

I always was under the impression "nice guys" was a good thing, even knowing that nice guys tend to finish last (the whole bad boy attraction women have).. I never realized how much of the problem is ME. I'm going to get the book, god knows I need to incite change in my life.

Thanks for this!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Bottom line, if the relationship is relatively new, and your attraction starts to wane quickly, best to let it go rather than hoping you will change your feelings, or he will change his behavior.

*Edited to add,

If you are a guy and have decided to read this stuff and embark on the journey, and you're relationship is already 'challenging' ... do not share what you are doing. It ain't about her. It's about you.

If your spouse or SO gave you the book to read and you don't see that as a call to action ... you're a knucklehead.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Feeling exposed?


In the current relationship or in this thread?


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Bottom line, if the relationship is relatively new, and your attraction starts to wane quickly, best to let it go rather than hoping you will change your feelings, or he will change his behavior.
> 
> *Edited to add,
> 
> ...


...and if you are a woman trying to change your husband, you are going to fail miserably and your marriage/relationship is only going to get worse from here on out.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Saki said:


> ...and if you are a woman trying to change your husband, you are going to fail miserably and your marriage/relationship is only going to get worse from here on out.


I don't know... "Nice Guys" stay the same not because they like the outcome, but because even when they do get highly frustrated and resentful, they don't really know another option.

Edit: But, if you started a relationship with a guy towards you had no attraction with and/or you weren't in love with... I can't help but think the problem's with you and how you decided to use this guy towards fulfilling your needs without giving so much crap about his.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I understand that this may make you feel as though we are judging you harshly. You probably cannot see any faults on your side. But the thing is we cannot see the faults in ourselves as easy as we can see faults in others. Sometimes our own faults, may be giving us a faulty view of other people, thinking they have the problem, not us.


No - I absolutely see faults on my side. That's why I'm so bunched up about this emotionally. I feel guilty for having jumped into a relationship so soon after the demise of my marriage. This guy loves me, I feel less and less like I want to be in a relationship with him but because I don't want to hurt him (and don't want to lose his friendship), I keep trying to see if I can make myself feel a different way. Which may sound dysfunctional or weird in some way, but emotions are fleeting. They can be circumstantial. I don't really trust my feelings right now in general. Which brings me back to what my therapist said - if you don't know what you're feeling or what you want, it's best not to be inviting someone to live with you. 

I have asked him to move out and give me space, but for financial reasons the timeframe is several weeks away. I'm trying to figure out what to do with myself and him in the meantime. Kissing, affection and sex feel hypocritical and like a mixed message from me, but he still has hope that the relationship will evolve and if I don't REALLY know what I want...

Urgh. And now I think I sound like someone who wants her cake and to eat it to and I don't respect myself for it. 

BTW...in case anyone thought from my earlier post that I am bipolar, it's not me, it's my mom. Although, maybe from this post you will think otherwise.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Did you feel any attraction for him at the beginning?


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I can tell you feel this way from your posts. There is an internal struggle going on. Your codependent side feels bad about how you've led this guy on and wants to spare him pain. Your divorced side is saying it's too soon for a relationship period. Your fearful side says you may never find another 'nice guy' as good as this one.
> 
> And in the center of all this is your real self. That real self knows what's the right thing to do and the right thing is often the hardest thing. You will lose respect for yourself if you continue on with a relationship with a someone you know you don't want.


Yep.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

firebelly said:


> Yep.


You mention "financial" considerations.

His or yours?


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Did you feel any attraction for him at the beginning?


Not a physical attraction, no. Like I said, I think he's good looking, but he's not someone I would look at across a room and ZING. I was attracted to his personality and I had a mental checklist that he seemed to fit into.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You mention "financial" considerations.
> 
> His or yours?


Both. He was out of work November through two weeks ago. I have been unemployed since the end of December.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

firebelly said:


> Both. He was out of work November through two weeks ago. I have been unemployed since the end of December.


I can see why you're concerned about using him.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I can see why you're concerned about using him.


Yep.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Well, the book says it improves some relationships and puts the others into long overdue graves...
> 
> *I don't think the book or breaking your inner "Nice Guy" is supposed to help you in your relationship. It is supposed help you become a strong individual and make you live your life the way you want it, assertively, not passive-agressively and with trying to go with the flow. *That being said, it will help your relationship with a healthy partner who loves you and cares about you. It helps breaking apart from dysfunctional relationships.
> 
> ...


I think this is what I tried to say but a lot less eloquently.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Allow me to put this more bluntly since it seems to have been missed:

If you are a woman, DO NOT TRY TO CHANGE YOUR MAN


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Re: Did "No More Mr. Nice Guy" help?*



Saki said:


> Allow me to put this more bluntly since it seems to have been missed:
> 
> If you are a woman, DO NOT TRY TO CHANGE YOUR MAN


You can't force someone to change, but if they want to, you help them become a better version of themselves. No, they can't remake him into what they want. But they can help him be what HE wants.

One of the reasons the nice guy syndrome resonates so strongly with so many men is that nice guys by an large are unhappy. They know they are and are usually not sure why. I think the woman they love pointing out their nice guy syndrome and giving them a blueprint to fix it can be just the call to action many need.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

+1 for Way of the Superior Man as well.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> The key part in this is if they WANT TO. I'm married to just such a man but it took years to get to this place. Before had I tried to point this out he would have just taken it as me being critical. Now he knows it's because I truly do love him and wants what's best for him. I already love him AS IS - that's key to encouraging someone to change.
> 
> I don't need him to change for me. I already think he's great. It just makes me sad to see him unhappy.


Another element of this is you have to be right with yourself before your partner will listen.

That's a tall order for many.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Doc Glover makes it clear that the book is not a relationship book, it is a men's self improvement book. He says quite accurately that your marriage may improve or it may go to a long overdue grave.

NMMNG helped me enormously personally. My marriage is still unresolved, but whatever outcome occurs will be the best one for me.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Thor said:


> Doc Glover makes it clear that the book is not a relationship book, it is a men's self improvement book. He says quite accurately that your marriage may improve or it may go to a long overdue grave.
> 
> NMMNG helped me enormously personally. My marriage is still unresolved, but whatever outcome occurs will be the best one for me.


It may not improve the current relationship, but if you use it to improve ones self and going into a future relationship with those different ideas and the new perspective, it should help that one.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

It's actually pretty apparent who the nice guys are when reading these replies.

The people who try to fix the OP...are nice guys. The ultimate irony is that they are neither helping themselves nor the OP with their responses. Just feeding the cycle....


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Drover said:


> One of the reasons the nice guy syndrome resonates so strongly with so many men is that nice guys by an large are unhappy. They know they are and are usually not sure why. I think the woman they love pointing out their nice guy syndrome and giving them a blueprint to fix it can be just the call to action many need.


I agree, but the OP or any wife needs to approach this from an arms length. The breaking free process is necessarily one of change, which will cause some discomfort in the relationship. But it is the man's journey, not hers and not the couple's.

I think it would be fine to give him the book. Depending on what the core issues are she could make a fairly bland statement related to it. "Honey you have said you struggle sometimes with assertiveness (or sexual toxic shame or feeling inferior to others etc) and I heard this book is helpful to some men for that".

A key part of the process is to have safe people. A wife or girlfriend _by definition_ is not one of those people. Nice Guys seek approval from their woman, so if the wife is used as a safe person it will undermine the process for him. He needs people who will honestly tell him things, and he needs to freely tell them things. He is probably going to try to get his wife's approval, and thus the process is corrupted from the start.

Offer your support for his efforts and offer your appreciation for his improvements when you see them. e.g. "I like your new decisiveness".


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

Hi, 

Lurker here and on the NMMNG site. I remember reading NMMNG the first time. I felt like it was talking about my life in many parts. I felt relief to have found some insight and then felt a horrible shame and depression. I thought I was a good guy not this pathetic nice guy. 

My wife had been on me for some time and tried her best to explain what was wrong but I just couldn't understand. She was strong intelligent and capable. Why wouldn't i get her thoughts and opinions on things before making decsions? Just semed like the nice thing to do. SO I would ask and then defer to what I thought would make her happy. 

After all she had no problem stating her opinions and could be quite critical or diaapproving of opinions or actions she didn't agree with. So I learned to agree, appease, and try to make her happy. Of course it didn't work and just made things worse. After over 20 years we were at acrossroads. I even asked God... why he sent me a women that by my very nature I seem to made unhappy. I think it was at that point, I realized it really was my problem and not hers. I needed to change me for me. I wasn't happy; She wasn't happy. So it was time for a change. I started reading, I decided that I could live without her if that was the result and a very real possibility. Thankfully there were no adiditioanl factors like adultery, gambling or money issues. But, from there and a lot of work things began to change. 

Unfortuneatly, I can easily slip back into those Nice Guy behaviors. I still don't like conflict, I resent her when she isn't happy with life after all I have done for her. But those are not healthy thoughts for me and only I can change that. My wife is a RGW but needs a firm hand and a decisive man. She needs me to lead the relationship. I need to lead to be happy. like many other NGs I can lead outside the relationship just fine and am seen as a mans man. Its part of what attracted my wife to me in the first place. 

NMMNG is but one of many books that have helped me. The Way of the Superior Man, The Passiaonte Marriage, Hold on to your N.U.T's., the 5 Love Languages to name but a few. The process never ends but it can and does get better if you choose to put the work into it.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Thor said:


> Doc Glover makes it clear that the book is not a relationship book, it is a men's self improvement book. He says quite accurately that your marriage may improve or it may go to a long overdue grave...


This needs to be clarified more often around here - even if 'self improvement book' is very highly debatable

Far too frequently - people in busted, dysfunctional, possibly totally failed relationships - dragged along by therapy and drama and medication - immediately fling this out as a relationship remedy to anyone that shows up around here with a problem because they feel it helped 'them'. With completely noble intentions I might add.

The accolytes of this - all they see for any little issue in a relationship - is a torrent of hapless 'nice guys' and a battle for 'sex rank'. It is so tedious and very often, in my view, mistaken. (as tedious, I suppose, as my endless commentary on it.  )

There is nothing worse than a (born again / alcoholic / addict of any kind / recovering nice guy / horrible divorce victim / whatever..) - eagerly projecting their boatload of problems onto someone that frequetly has mundane or routine relationship conflict - simply unable to see past their own distorted views.

Did I just insult 2/3rds of TAM? I dunno. probably. 

funny - this phrase popped into my head:

"If I knew for a certainty that a man was coming to my house with the conscious design of doing me good, I should run for my life." - H.D.Thoreau


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## Sillyputty (Jan 22, 2013)

anotherguy said:


> This needs to be clarified more often around here - even if 'self improvement book' is very highly debatable
> 
> Far too frequently - people in busted, dysfunctional, possibly totally failed relationships - dragged along by therapy and drama and medication - immediately fling this out as a relationship remedy to anyone that shows up around here with a problem because they feel it helped 'them'. With completely noble intentions I might add.
> 
> ...


Not insulting at all AG, needs to be said. I see lots of advice on TAM (mostly FOR men) who have behaved badly for many, many years and then when their wives show up with bad behavior, threaten to leave, etc. they are the scum of the earth, need to do the 180, NMMNG when they have never REALLY committed to the marriage to begin with. This is not all cases, of course, but then again neither does NMMNG/180 fit all cases. It occurs to me that REAL change and REALLY commtting to the marriage is the more difficult path and perhaps is the reason many men prefer the one-size-fits-all rhetoric.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

anotherguy said:


> This needs to be clarified more often around here - even if 'self improvement book' is very highly debatable
> 
> Far too frequently - people in busted, dysfunctional, possibly totally failed relationships - dragged along by therapy and drama and medication - immediately fling this out as a relationship remedy to anyone that shows up around here with a problem because they feel it helped 'them'. With completely noble intentions I might add.
> 
> ...


Tell us about the people you've helped.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey Vorlon! Guess who?

Give you a hint...at M/V my initials were SD.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

So...I did talk to BF last night about the Nice Guy issue. I basically told him that I felt myself pulling away from him and while I believe that not being over my divorce in and of itself could be causing that, I have felt that him being "too nice" may have something to do with it too. I explained that I saw in him something that I saw in myself - a tendency to people-please and suppress my own needs for the needs of others, the dark side of which is giving up so much of yourself that you start to resent the other person. 

He was glad to have the conversation 'cause he knew something was bugging me but wanted to give me space rather than ask. (Which seems like a nice guy type thing to do. )


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

firebelly said:


> For those of you who have read and implemented "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, did it help in your relationship? If so, how? And, are there any of you who's SO introduced you to it as opposed to a friend or TAM? If so, how did she get you to read it?


I have a theory which I would argue over a beer. Didn't read the thread.

The book itself is probably not particularly useful as far as advice (Seemed to be a bunch of generalizations with very little concrete advice. The man seemed more interested in selling seminars and support groups than in helping in a book. A real marketing ploy)

But the IDEA behind the book was a cup of cool water to a lot of thirsty men.

For whatever reason, our culture has diminished the needs of men entirely. In the past, yeah, man was THE MAN...but these days, saying one needs respect, affection, a little bit of gratitude is to be slapped with the label of 'selfish'.

So...he has touched a cultural nerve and allowed a lot of men to be able to say to themselves "Yeah! I have needs!" in an unapologetic way.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

JCD said:


> The book itself is probably not particularly useful as far as advice (Seemed to be a bunch of generalizations with very little concrete advice. The man seemed more interested in selling seminars and support groups than in helping in a book. A real marketing ploy)


Why would you think that? There are lots of truthful statements, plenty of good advice and very very useful "Breaking Free" activities. What more could it have contained?


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

Ah...the conversation with BF last night weighed on him all morning. He didn't buy that there's anything wrong with his niceness. Ended with him asking me to clarify what I want and stop asking other people (like TAM) what they think I should do. "What's in your heart?" he said. "I don't want to date anyone right now" I said, truthfully. I don't think that's what he was expecting. I think he was under the impression that my doubts about him were coming from other people and not myself. It was kind of the other way around. I had doubts about him but felt bad about the possibility of hurting him and tried to see if I could get other people to convince me my feelings of doubt about him were wrong. I felt guilty for leading him on and now I feel guilty for hurting him. It was kind of inevitable, huh Conrad? Cuz I should have known better than to jump into a relationship two months after I split from my H.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Doing the right thing doesn't always equate to feeling good about doing the right thing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

firebelly said:


> Ah...the conversation with BF last night weighed on him all morning. He didn't buy that there's anything wrong with his niceness. Ended with him asking me to clarify what I want and stop asking other people (like TAM) what they think I should do. "What's in your heart?" he said. "I don't want to date anyone right now" I said, truthfully. I don't think that's what he was expecting. I think he was under the impression that my doubts about him were coming from other people and not myself. It was kind of the other way around. I had doubts about him but felt bad about the possibility of hurting him and tried to see if I could get other people to convince me my feelings of doubt about him were wrong. I felt guilty for leading him on and now I feel guilty for hurting him. It was kind of inevitable, huh Conrad? Cuz I should have known better than to jump into a relationship two months after I split from my H.


firebelly,

Your truth actually set him free. This was a very kind thing to do.

I strongly encourage you to seize this opportunity to truly discover yourself in therapy and to learn how to love yourself sufficiently.

Then you'll be ready.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

S,
You seem like a genuinely good person and you are certainly smart enough to understand what to do. 

No advice is going to help you until you have enough faith in yourself to believe you deserve to be with someone who loves you enough to prioritize you. 

I will give you a couple of guesses from your depictions to date:
- she likes the life you provide (it is an easy life and she is used to it)
- she believes she could have married someone 'better' (it does not matter if this is true or false, it is a primary behavioral driver)
- your behavior reflects agreement that she could have done better/or still could
- she resents anything you do which worsens this theme (gaining weight, etc. )
- this doesn't make her a bad person, just a quietly resentful one 
- and the many interactions in which you put her first and/or allow her to put you last reinforce the theme: you are lucky to have her and she is not so lucky to have you


QUOTE=sinnister;1446518]All I can comment on is whether or not it helped me because I was the only one who cared enough to find literature. And no...it didn't help my problem. Feels like more of "self help" book than a relationship helper.

But others here have had more success with it.[/QUOTE]


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey Vorlon! Guess who?
> 
> Give you a hint...at M/V my initials were SD.


Sorry OP for a minor thread jack here but FW was the person who told me about NMMNG. FW or (SD) Its wonderful to hear from you. Hope you are dong well. If anybody deserves it you do. :smthumbup: 

Quick update: Still together after almost 27 years. Moved 450 miles for new job, finished Ph.D. Bought new house, Mother-in-law died, left 3 of 4 adult children in NC. House remodeling for about 10 months so far, Wife fighting depression and loneliness (Whats new right?). We're both hitting the gym 5-6 days a week. I'm doing 5 & 10Ks per month and a 3-4 Triathlons this year). Getting old sucks, but will not go gently into the night.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Vorlon said:


> Sorry OP for a minor thread jack here but FW was the person who told me about NMMNG. FW or (SD) Its wonderful to hear from you. Hope you are dong well. If anybody deserves it you do. :smthumbup:
> 
> Quick update: Still together after almost 27 years. Moved 450 miles for new job, finished Ph.D. Bought new house, Mother-in-law died, left 3 of 4 adult children in NC. House remodeling for about 10 months so far, Wife fighting depression and loneliness (Whats new right?). We're both hitting the gym 5-6 days a week. I'm doing 5 & 10Ks per month and a 3-4 Triathlons this year). Getting old sucks, but will not go gently into the night.


Only 27 years.

I guess NMMNG didn't help you either


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Only 27 years.
> 
> I guess NMMNG didn't help you either


:lol: Thanks Conrad...Gave me a good chuckle.


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## TheManinBlack (Feb 21, 2013)

firebelly said:


> For those of you who have read and implemented "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, did it help in your relationship? If so, how? And, are there any of you who's SO introduced you to it as opposed to a friend or TAM? If so, how did she get you to read it?


Yes - it helped me. It gave me insight into why certain things/patterns kept reappearing in my life. I'm still a work in progress, but improving.


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