# I can't understand daughters loyalty to mum - separated ?



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Hi people.
We separated 11mths ago and it was my x's idea. Things had been very stressful , hurtful and rough for 4 yrs .
Thing is , x met a shoulder to cry on and support which gave definitely helped her out the door and then they started seeing each other . X had him spending time over there day one although when l found out 3mths later she said they only ever spent time as friends around my d.
My d was going through all this separation and was in a really bad way at the time , yet she knew mum instigated this and she knew she had a bf. Although she didn't see anything over there , she's not stupid and would've know he was the one.
Strangest thing though , 1 , she didn't say a word to me in 3mths about this guy hanging round , not a word.
l eventually only found out because x and l were talking via text and x's brainwave was to tell me finally and to go on to explain that d needs to be able to be open about him around when she's around me.
l blew a major fuse and said l'm going full custody unless she keeps that fk the hell away from her for at least a yr even two. Not that l needed to even bother but l researched the effects and spoke to people too and gave x that info in disgust.

We were together 18yrs and my d is 12 now. We decided she she mainly live with mum and x rents 10mins away now. I can see d anytime and she also stays over here w/ends and holidays.
But literally living with mum they're developing more and more away from me. l just can't get that kind of time with my d , not without asking even more house hopping from my d and that's just not fair on her.
Well there's that too but how the hell can l change that without messing my d up even more ?
But the 2nd main thing is , the other night l'm over seeing d and x had to work but left d her phone.lt's a different phone to mine so l was checking it out and also had a snoop to see if om was still on the scene. He hasn't been near the house and my d since but l dunno if x is still seeing him on w/ends or whatever.
But d kept trying to get the phone back and see what l was doing , as if she was protecting mum.
l'm her dad , we're suppose to be very close , her mum was the one that blew up our family and forced all this onto us , so why the hell would she wanna guard mums business against me ? l tried to put the family back together , l have no women around d and l've been to hell and back trying to make this as easy as possible on d , yet both these times the loyalties gone to mum - why , what the hell is that ?

l feel really hurt and l just don't understand it . l've also heard of kids doing the opposite to this. Trying to block new outsiders, give them and the parent that did this a real hard time, recent the hell out of them, side with the one that wanted to save the family , all sorts of stuff. 
Yet l get this !


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Couple of reasons... One, who knows what your X is saying to your daughter. You may "know" that the split was your X's fault, but who knows what your daughter thinks. I know some kids who would be absolutely awful about their father when with their mother. Mom encouraged these kids to call him a d0uchebag and his new gf a *****. But when dad would call, their faces would light up like Christmas. They loved their father dearly, but knew mom was made at him so they played to her emotions to make her happy. Sick that she encouraged this behavior... Point is, you have no clue what your daughter actually knows or thinks about the situation. She will tell each of you whatever she thinks you want to hear.
Two, she's a 12 year old girl. At this time in her life, she is developing an outrageous bond with the primary female in her life, her mother. Just remember what starts happening around age 12...
Three, your daughter apparently understands boundaries and respect better than you do. She wasn't trying to "protect" her mother by getting the phone back, she just knew that you snooping was totally wrong. And you better believe she told her mother about it!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Maybe she was trying to protect you... trying to keep you from seeing anything that would hurt you.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah , l sometimes have thought that too Ele. She would try that if she thought l might get hurt - in many cases anyway , these ones , don't know.
Happy place , there were lots of things that happened between us and yep l also caused a lot of pain carelessly , selfishly but , there were also many lead ups to our main problems from both. D was around a lot and did hear fights, words sometimes but we both know the end was mum. However , mum and l are civil and chatty around d , no bad words , fights, bickering and x has done all she can to encourage me and d as much as she can. l never run her down to d or does she , the opposite in fact , we both do. lt's all helped d no end through this and hopefully any bad stuff fades in time and she can see us and remember us more so like this. That's our plan and also to co parent as best we can for d. So hopefully nothing bad is ever said anyway , it isn't my end l know that much. 
But yeah l had a snoop , caught x doing same only few wks back . Thing is though l want R if poss' and l've had no idea what's going on with om if at all - so shoot me :smthumbup:

Anyway , this special bond your talking about is what worries me and actually makes me feel sick . l'm happy for them to have a bond but l need the same and being some pathetic drop in part time dad just can't do compete . l do more than most but it still can't and we're very close , even x says she thinks d loves me much more and she's just an ATM . 
But l still see this bond more and more lately and things like this really worry me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The one thing I can think of is for you to have more time with your daughter. Take her out more. Do more with her.

Plan a special vacation where you take her some place. Do you have extended family you can visit with her?


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

IMHO, this bond you are seeing is based more on age than anything else... My mom split and ran off with another man when I was about 11 or so. I KNOW my mother took off on us and left us with a father that barely knew us because he had always worked out of town in the mines to support our family of 7. Anyway, by the time I was 12-13, I was fully aware of what was going on. I knew my mother was to blame but I was a blossoming girl/woman and needed that bond with my mother. I ended up living with her for a few years before returning to live with my father. Almost 20 years later, I love my mother to death but the respect and love I have for my father is insurmountable!! For all she was there for me as a young teen, I am closer to my father than she could ever imagine. Why? Because I know who tore our family apart. 
Thing is, I wouldn't worry about the bond and closeness they share now. It has less to do with the split than it does with your daughter's growing up.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The one thing I can think of is for you to have more time with your daughter. Take her out more. Do more with her.
> 
> Plan a special vacation where you take her some place. Do you have extended family you can visit with her?


Yeah in time Ele but she's not ready for 1 parent holidays yet . l can't put in anymore time or we may as well all be back under the same roof ha ha . Thing is , any trips and extra time , well l can't do extra as l say but it's only a temporary fix. Trouble is nothing can compete with living day in and out together. Waking up together , heading off to school , work,bed , tea and shows every 
night, just living . 
They are getting to know each other sooo well , it just comes from real life not this fake garbage l have to live and manufacture unfortunately. 
But l'll keep trying , chin up !


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

MyHappyPlace said:


> IMHO, this bond you are seeing is based more on age than anything else... My mom split and ran off with another man when I was about 11 or so. I KNOW my mother took off on us and left us with a father that barely knew us because he had always worked out of town in the mines to support our family of 7. Anyway, by the time I was 12-13, I was fully aware of what was going on. I knew my mother was to blame but I was a blossoming girl/woman and needed that bond with my mother. I ended up living with her for a few years before returning to live with my father. Almost 20 years later, I love my mother to death but the respect and love I have for my father is insurmountable!! For all she was there for me as a young teen, I am closer to my father than she could ever imagine. Why? Because I know who tore our family apart.
> Thing is, I wouldn't worry about the bond and closeness they share now. It has less to do with the split than it does with your daughter's growing up.



Thanks for explaining all the HP , didn't mean for you to drag it all up.
But yeah , she's 12 , it's all happening , girl girl and all that yeah , that's a biggie on why we agreed she go with mum.
Funny you should say it but x says she wants to come live with me when l move , spose maybe my time comes to if it actually happens.
We're very close and we're actually closer than the ATM as mum calls herself before the split . A big thing that had me puzzled about that phone thing.
Actually x says she hardly talks to her when it's just them but talks none stop about me , at least that's something.
l want her to have her mom and their relationship , don't get me wrong . l just don't wanna fade away because of it , l want the loyalty , protection, our thing that we always had before , just like her and mum. 
Anyway thanks for the insight , really helpful .
X is always saying d is about to implode at 12 c, we both laugh about it. Sorta glad she's with her right now


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I'll share a possibility but bear in mind that this is a worst case scenario: Your ex may be poisoning your daughter.

When I was around 7, my mother was also the one who blew up my family wanting D and all that. My relationship with my father also deteriotated (however you spell that) due to what is called "poisoning". I was taught by my mother to hate my father, subtly of course.

On one hand she constantly reminded me:
- He's still your father
On the other hand she constantly reminded me:
- Don't be like him
From how I talked, how I walked, even how my feet looked to other things. Every little thing, don't be like him. To the point I was robbed of a father figure, and that was how she made me hate him. And I'm sure it was not intentional but her hate for my father could not be contained despite her intentions.

In the end I became loyal to mum, until she kicked me out on the streetbc of her boyfriend. I then became a semi-suicidal, violent psychopathic street kid during my teens until my dad found me during a court charge involving attempted murder but that's another story.

As I grew into adulthood I reflected upon my childhood and all the pieces that fell into place. So I'm quite familiar with child poisoning. Thankfully my STBX knows this, and isn't stupid enough to even try it, especially considering the relationship I have with my daughter now.

The thing is; my father rarely spent time with me. Didn't connect with me, hence making me much more vulnerable to her poisoning. Hence I ensured that such a scenario would never happen with me and my daughter by always being there for her.

Just something to bear in mind...


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

I feel for you Whitehawk.

BUT, she is 12 and could tell a judge where she wants to live.
Even if you make a big stink about the OM and try for full custody, doesn't mean you'll get it.

She needs both her Mother and her Father.

I'd say to try for JOINT/shared custody.
Some successful co-parenting scenarios I have SEEN work is this week at Dads and Next week at Mums.
1 parent holidays are going to be a reality - you split up...how did you THINK they would be handled?

I really empathize with you as I understand exactly what you mean about WANTING to be there for the day to day living.
BUT, your STBXW blew that all to hell for you.

As for the OM - well when you are divorced you can't really dictate who your ex screws or has around your daughter.
Sad but true.

My ex married the wh0re AP - so I have zero control over her wh0reness being around my kid. The courts could care less that they both committed adultery. The courts could care less that I didn't want my child around her kind of lifestyle. (She has literally screwed every single dude my ex knows ..seriously they can't go anywhere to any event or bar or restaurant without running in to someone she has bedded)Sadly, my son and I caught the two home wreckers together. LUCKILY my son knows what kind of a person she is and he wouldn't trust her with a ten foot pole. Son knows SHE is the reason that his Mother and Dad are divorced. He doesn't respect his Father, but he still loves him. 
Luckily she is kind to my kid and doesn't do anything she shouldn't around him. If she were to ever lay a hand on him she knows I'd kick her nasty azz PERIOD. 

Anyway, point is you can want to keep your kid away from the men your stbxw comes in contact with, but you really have no control over it.

BEST thing you can do is show your daughter how a REAL Father is supposed to act. Be above reproach. 
She's too old to have to pick between her parents...what a sucky thing for her to have to do. 

I know I've said this before on other threads....and even if you aren't particularly religious there are some really really useful tools to be gleaned from this movie. ESPECIALLY the interaction between the African American Dad and his young teen daughter. I think you will really love it and she will too!
Movie is called Courageous.

Watch Courageous Online | 2011 Movie | Yidio
Watch Courageous Online | 2011 Movie | Yidio


It does get better Whitehawk. I'm sorry this happened to you and your daughter. Good Luck dude.

RandomDude that's called Parental Alienation. I'm sorry your mom did that to you.
Have you tried to regain a relationship with your Dad?


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Gee Random , sorry about your rough time man but thanks for the perspective.

But naa , l know it's not an x poisoning thing , we both agreed day one there'll be non of that bs. We both want to make this the best we possibly can for d. X bends over backwards for us to get as much time as we possibly can together and to oblige in any possible way she can. 
Apart from the om thing at that start , she's been an absolute dream X and co parent and when l hear about what other guys are going through , my God .
She would never run me down to d though, they actually talk about me all the time x's best friend told me and l can often hear that is stuff d says to so .
Matter of fact x's best friend said even when we were splitting up , she's never heard x say one bad thing about me .
But even if she feels it , like me l'm 100% sure d would never hear it and l won't run x down to d either. Neither of us want that at all that much l do know .
ll don't want full custody , l want d to have her mum as long as she does the right thing by her.
That was mainly about this om [email protected] at the start which x does swear black and blue was about emotional support not romance and so he wasn't staying over or anything , l dunno.

And thanks to Unique , appreciate it. And yeah new partner stuff just makes me puke tbh , l dunno. Will have to cross and worry about that bridge when and if we come to it l guess.

This thing with the phone , l dunno . l do know it was nothing bad , maybe even something like what Ele's suggested , my d does work roll like that. She's very protective , loyal , hell she might have done the same if it was x with my phone , no way to know.
Like l'd be pretty sure it wasn't so much a bad thing anyway. l mean d and l love each other to bits , we're right into each other and x does her damnedest to encourage that.
l dunno.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sigh, unfortunatly parents have a strong influence on their children that canbe used for manipulation and damage. Even the most absused children will be loyal to their parents which is sad. Children take what a parents tell then and they don't question things. Im using the extrem example so that you can see how strong that bond is. I'm thinking your daughter is under the influence of her mom. The best you can do is spend time with her, clarify anything she opens up to and questions. Let her know you will love her unconditionally and that she can come to you always. Be patient with her too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah , sure there's no bad intent [email protected] going on so much and as l was saying above , we don't run each other down or argue over our time or fun and games. There's been nothing like that ever from either of us.
l think it's more just a thing with my d actually living with mum so , and maybe even something along what Ele's suggested.
Or hell for all l know d might've been more worried about me cutting off the wifi because she was running her ipad through it - don't threaten the ipad !!


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Could be that she is closer because mom is as Mom is the one she patterns after...how to deal with first period, buying a bra, putting on makeup and all sorts of those things that girls like to learn from moms.'

Dads are really important too....YOU are the first Man she falls in love with (not sexual love of course) but YOU pattern for her the Male world and you are the one to teach her she is beautiful and worthy of all good things, and how to expect to be treated by men

That Courageous movie I recommended. It isn't long. And there are some really beautiful and touching things they illustrate in the Father-Daughter relationships. I'm not a particularly religious person, don't attend any church. Substitute GOD for whatever your spiritual beliefs are. The movie is more interesting in the story they are telling and the ways those Fathers showed their daughters ways to keep self-esteem, to value themselves and keep and get respect of others.
Watch the movie - what could it hurt?

You will just have different ways that you will have a close relationship to your daughter. Now and as she grows up.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> Could be that she is closer because mom is as Mom is the one she patterns after...how to deal with first period, buying a bra, putting on makeup and all sorts of those things that girls like to learn from moms.'
> 
> Dads are really important too....YOU are the first Man she falls in love with (not sexual love of course) but YOU pattern for her the Male world and you are the one to teach her she is beautiful and worthy of all good things, and how to expect to be treated by men
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Unique and yep l'll get hold of that movie too.
And yeah , l mean how do we sum up the millions of things we get from either parent through our lives , we're both equally as important. But too at this age well , a big part of why l wanted her to be with mum through these years.
l mean we can deal with all that if we have to but if she's got a good mum my attitude was why on earth take that away but yeah , it does detract a little too but , we still have a gorgeous relationship and she's doing so well , so proud of her.

Thanks a lot for the thoughts Unique .


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