# Infidelity Education - Co-conspirators



## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What do you say to people who helped their wife cheat, or at the very least covered her cheating up rather than put you in the loop?

What on earth do you say to these people during reconciliation?

What do you insist your spouse say?

My thinking is to give these people a brief but thorough education on infidelity and the proper way an adult conducts them-self when brought into it, either unwittingly or otherwise.

My thinking is this is best delivered by the wayward who brought them into the mess rather than the betrayed spouse. I think it would have much more impact coming from the wayward.

Just not sure what ought to be said or how to word it.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

What do you want to say?

For me it would be public and say a BBQ where all those who knew something got it handed out that they were facilitating your Ws A and that you wished them the greatest misfortune to endure such pain and suffering themselves and that you no longer see them as friends of your marriage and that they are no longer welcome in your lives, either of them, terms of R are to state that the toxics that knew and stayed stum are shut out of the marriage.

Be sure to have a big audience too so that other Hs can see that they are not good company for their wives.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> What do you want to say?
> 
> For me it would be public and say a BBQ where all those who knew something got it handed out that they were facilitating your Ws A and that you wished them the greatest misfortune to endure such pain and suffering themselves and that you no longer see them as friends of your marriage and that they are no longer welcome in your lives, either of them, terms of R are to state that the toxics that knew and stayed stum are shut out of the marriage.
> 
> Be sure to have a big audience too so that other Hs can see that they are not good company for their wives.


Doesn't that seem rather hypocritical to work on your relationship with your spouse but to toss friends and family aside?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Well, I had alot of anger towards my ex's friends - some who made comments on her FB like "you go girl!" and "good for you!" and "I am so happy for you!". It was like I as witnessing a dream - then as time went on and they saw what was actually transpiring they are no longer friends with her and it hit me that my ex was feeding them negative information about me and, thus, in control, of the information. So they were only reacting to what she was feeding them. Once I realized this my anger towards them dissipated. For example, she got plenty of mileage out of telling people I was a loser, did not support her, I was an abuser (the number one female cheater go-to), etc.. Funny though, they saw we had healthy children but the thought never entered their minds that our children would have known better. You have to understand that cheaters are master manipulators and control the information they feed to others. But still have emotional anger residue for her friends.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> \ For example, she got plenty of mileage out of telling people I was a loser, did not support her, I was an abuser (the number one female cheater go-to), etc.


And they will spend a lot of time preparing this ground before they ever reveal, and in some cases even start, the affair. At least the affair that they revealed to their friends. Who knows how much of that was the side effect of the ongoing denigration from a previous affair(s).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If you decided to divorce, would it be hypocritical to keep those friends and family in your life?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Doesn't that seem rather hypocritical to work on your relationship with your spouse but to toss friends and family aside?


Not if they helped facilitate an affair. The hypocrisy is with the wayward spouse, who should support the social movement away from those people.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

bigtone128 said:


> ...
> - then as time went on and they saw what was actually transpiring they are no longer friends with her and it hit me that my ex was feeding them negative information about me and, thus, in control, of the information. So they were only reacting to what she was feeding them. ....


Same deal here. So what I told my wife is that I could reconcile with these 'got your back' friends IF she sat them down individually with us and spilled the whole story including how she manipulated their perceptions through information control over a period of years. "They need to see you lied to them regularly too; just like me." And even then, I'd just be cordial at best. 

But since my wife wasn’t a remorseful WW at the time.... I did the nuclear approach so her supposed friends had ‘the other side of the story’. I outed her; And they had no idea how bad it was, how long it went on, or how much she limited the information or what it was really like in our marriage. 

That emotional support network has a weakness... They love to gossip and judge others. I just fed them plenty to talk about; My wife and her SA, drinking, lying issues. While they like her, it’s hard not to judge someone like my wife when you have the full story, a lot of speculation, dirt, and their own observations of her to go on. What was once “you go girl” turned into a lot of “is it true that you ____?”. So rather than support, she was having to answer questions she was really uncomfortable with from ‘her friends’... One even saw me as available and began moving in on this rocky marriage... lol. 

It’s another reason you ‘out’ your wayward; I did it face to face with her closest ally’s. A pool party with free booze was all I needed to (quoting my WW at the time) “ruin her life!”...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> What do you say to people who helped their wife cheat, or at the very least covered her cheating up rather than put you in the loop?
> 
> What on earth do you say to these people during reconciliation?
> 
> *What do you insist your spouse say*?


This: "I'm sorry, but because you weren't supportive of our marriage and helped me cover up and engage in my affair, you are no longer allowed in my presence or in our home"


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Doesn't that seem rather hypocritical to work on your relationship with your spouse but to toss friends and family aside?


I suppose you could see it that way. But will you ever feel comfortable with those people being around your spouse?

And working on the marriage can/should mean that your cheating spouse has consequences, like getting their ass home when they aren't doing anything necessary. Fun with friends? Nope, they f'd that up.

But then again, I'll never have to worry about that. 1 strike and they can pack their bags.



2ntnuf said:


> If you decided to divorce, would it be hypocritical to keep those friends and family in your life?


Wouldn't be hypocritical. Would just be dumb to trust any of them to be in your life.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Racer said:


> Same deal here. So what I told my wife is that I could reconcile with these 'got your back' friends IF she sat them down individually with us and spilled the whole story including how she manipulated their perceptions through information control over a period of years. "They need to see you lied to them regularly too; just like me." And even then, I'd just be cordial at best.
> 
> But since my wife wasn’t a remorseful WW at the time.... I did the nuclear approach so her supposed friends had ‘the other side of the story’. I outed her; And they had no idea how bad it was, how long it went on, or how much she limited the information or what it was really like in our marriage.
> 
> ...


Well, similar here - one day I was downtown and I bumped into one of my former wife's friends and she was shocked to see me and uncomfortably said "hello" and then said "I thought you moved away" to which I replied (seeing that I did not tell her) "oh where did you here that?" from (my former)" then I said "I'd be curious to know what else she told you"..this look came over her face like shock and she looked guilty as she realized what she was told was not accurate....she literally scurried away from me. That is the power of deceit and the power of truth all in one exchange.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

vellocet said:


> This: "I'm sorry, but because you weren't supportive of our marriage and helped me cover up and engage in my affair, you are no longer allowed in my presence or in our home"


I am thinking the severity of the consequences brought to co-conspirators is partially dependent on how much they were lied to.

I mean.. we get lied to, they get lied to, we make mistakes until we find out... People have reported gifts, trips, evenings out... all while an affair is going on under their nose...

That in some cases is what the wayward is doing to their friends too.. misinformation.

Granted, I hold people accountable to fact check, and think.

So.. Yes I hear you. I just am having trouble reconciling the idea of forgiving the spouse for actually cheating, but not forgiving misinformed friends who were supporters.

It does seem hypocritical to me.

My thinking is you have to hold them accountable, bring consequences to bear, and handle them similarly to how you would handle the wayward.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think you are first, assuming the friends don't know enough. If you take the stance that cheating is wrong, no matter what, and there are no justifications for cheating, and it's a decision, I think you have your answer. 

We are told to keep those who are friends to the marriage. The friends knew the WS was cheating and supported them, in this instance. They are not friends of the marriage. Until they can prove otherwise, which is nearly impossible, it would be hypocritical for a reconciling WS to be friends with them and be confident when they(the WS) say they are against cheating.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I think you are first, assuming the friends don't know enough. If you take the stance that cheating is wrong, no matter what, and there are no justifications for cheating, and it's a decision, I think you have your answer.
> 
> We are told to keep those who are friends to the marriage. The friends knew the WS was cheating and supported them, in this instance. They are not friends of the marriage. Until they can prove otherwise, which is nearly impossible, it would be hypocritical for a reconciling WS to be friends with them and be confident when they(the WS) say they are against cheating.


I don't care if they received inaccurate information or incomplete information: *You don't encourage/enable someone's affair.*

An old coworker of mine used to tell about his marital woes, did we encourage him to have an affair? Of course not. We encouraged him to get MC or divorce. Turns out the marital woes were because she was a wh0re, and frakking every man to come on to her, while she denied sex to him and had him get a vasectomy.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Allen_A said:


> I am thinking the severity of the consequences brought to co-conspirators is partially dependent on how much they were lied to.
> .


Not only that, but how you see them. My WW’s gay Uncle she’s close to and seems to use for advice all the time. But me, having watched him... he’s one of those ‘yes men’

It doesn’t make the dude a bad guy and I have no serious issues toward him. He’s likable enough. It just makes him horrible for advice because he’s just going to tell you whatever he thinks you’d want to hear regardless. I don’t respect him or ask him opinions about anything. Funny... he’s mentioned it to my wife wondering if I’m angry with him. I’ve told her why: He’s not in it for your benefit, he’s in it because he just wants you to really like him and it makes him feel good. That’s why it bothers him that I don’t talk to him and why he’s placed himself at the top of the hen house for advice and gossip in her family. And lol... it works. People love to hear they are ‘right’ and ‘insightful’ all the time instead of being told to pull their heads out of their ass. They’ll keep going back the ‘yes man’...


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Doesn't that seem rather hypocritical to work on your relationship with your spouse but to toss friends and family aside?


Sorry, I am failing to see your point here.

Why would you allow these "so called" friends to remain around your W when they had knowledge of your Ws A and allowed and potentially facillitated it?

Why should you stay silent and be a victim of your Ws A by not making it publicly known that there has been infidelity within your marriage and that you are trying to work things out?

If you have real friends and loyal families who believe in morals and faithful marriages then why can you not shame those who could have aided you in ending the A sooner and possibly prevented it from going any further?

Families are on the whole very good at covering up and glossing over to keep the peace, but why should they be allowed to save face when you hide behind a smile screaming inside and dying a painful death of agony as they get to smile in your face while thinking "mug, didn't see that coming did ya?"??????

What is wrong with standing up and shouting down the people who need lessons in morality?

Where is the harm in making these so called "friends" spouses cautious of their own relationships? This is a really neat one as you have no idea how the "friends" are behaving behind closed doors! Who are you to stay quiet about the lack of morality shown by them with regards your W, when they could so easily be having their own As behind their partners backs? It is entirely possible as they did not have the decency to stop or contact you regards your Ws indescretion did they? You could be saving someone else from hurt and pain by speaking out?

I understand self protection but do not understand why, with so much misery inflicted upon yourself you would willingly protect those that allowed a harmful situation flourish and potentially encouraged it, would you "enjoy" sitting next a friend who encouraged your wife to flirt with some random guy? Or were they encouraging her from a more harmful perspective, she deserved to feel another mans c0ck inside her? She deserved a good hard seeing to as you were possibly too Beta to give her what she needed in her friends eyes?

Please explain your post a little more in depth as I am not sure I understand who you are trying to protect?


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

I actually really felt out all those who were close to me to determine not only if they knew but if they helped cover up. 

My sister in law I texted on the night before DDay from my wives phone. I got all the confirmation and dirt I needed to hang ww and her sister hung herself telling me all I needed to realize I wouldn't have her around me or my girls alone again. 

Unfortunately my mother in law whom I love dearly still wants both her daughters around all the time so it's made it more difficult for me to limit her contact but I've sufficiently embarrassed her enough when she dares talk to my daughters about anything hypocritical that she shuts up in a hurry and goes and cries. 

Like once she told my oldest daughter whom is twelve, "why would you think I wasn't telling the truth? I am not a liar Ali" 

I laughed so hard and said really, your not a liar? Perhaps your just familiar with the definition of a liar, I looked it up immediately and spoke it aloud for all to hear and she ran off. 

As for the friend who knew, I told my ww that she could still talk to her since she was a child hood best friend. She was so relieved, I said "just let me pack a bag for you first, and arrange for a hotel room until you can get your own place." 

She stopped talking to her friend but it still hurt our relationship further that she even thought of continuing to talk to this hose beast enabler. 

But most women's friends I've seen are not just enablers, but they encourage the behavior and are active participants in the deceit and betrayal. And this women as a whole from my experience.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Racer said:


> It’s another reason you ‘out’ your wayward; I did it face to face with her closest ally’s. A pool party with free booze was all I needed to (quoting my WW at the time) “ruin her life!”...


I think that we ought to add "degrading your wife in public" to the list of things that must be done in order for a decent reconciliation to have a chance.

I suppose that in fairness she ought then to be required to describe just how pitiable her husband was in bed. No reconciliation without this as well.

Geez.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> I suppose that in fairness she ought then to be required to describe just how pitiable her husband was in bed. No reconciliation without this as well.
> Geez.


Already happened anyway.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What if the family member knew about it and knew the AP was married, so they didn't want them exposed because it might ruin the AP's marriage and the friendship between the family member and the AP's family? I guess a family puts their own first, don't they?


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

But where is their sense of morality in that? If that were the case then surely it would be better to have had a serious talk with them as in "end it, you are going to ruin both your marriages, and BTW if you don't, I will".

If you allow and facillitate the As you see before you then it makes you as guilty as they are.

If you are a co-conspiritor and actually know both sides of the coin then WTF is wrong with you? Why aren't you helping them sort their marriage out in stead of helping one of them ruin other people lives as well as their own?

Families that cover things up are worse as they look to save face and public image, that's nice, real friendly, burn in hell but just so you know, I got your back. The world needs more of these people, NOT.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> I think that we ought to add "1)*degrading your wife in public*" to the list of things that must be done in order for a decent reconciliation to have a chance.
> 
> 2)I suppose that in fairness she ought then to be required to describe just how pitiable her husband was in bed. No reconciliation without this as well.
> 
> Geez.


1) Is exposing the truth degradation? 
2) You mean if a husband is pitiable in bed, it's ok to cheat?

WTF??


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

brokeneric said:


> 1) Is exposing the truth degradation?
> 2) You mean if a husband is pitiable in bed, it's ok to cheat?
> 
> WTF??


:lol::lol::lol:

Sorry, I have stayed away from that comment as I can do a real number on it!!!

The whole degrading thing I find odd, she did that to herself! You are just making sure that she does not have a chance to lie, continue to lie, or to misdirect and drip feed information that makes her out to be a liberated woman or you out to be a neandertholic thug behind closed doors.

So what if he aint all that in the sack, not every guy can be as good as me  Still ain't no reason or justification in cheating and a brief explaination of how little sexual interraction there has been could actually see her remark or statement of poor performance going against her as there are a number of things that can and do go wrong in the bedroom department, his size, her bucket, a complete lack of experience that was not realized and fulfilled as a married couple.

I can continue.......


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

wranglerman said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Sorry, I have stayed away from that comment as I can do a real number on it!!!
> 
> ...


Don't bother bro. I triggered. So I posted. Pretty insensitive post that one was.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I wasn't sure who to out at first but about a year later WH sister not only lied to me about one thing (that I could very well understand and was acceptable to me.) but ended up supporting another lie I already knew about and she didn't know I knew. That was the last straw. I was already dealing with WH lies etc I was not going to deal with anyone else that could lie to me or deceive me in any way. WH had his choice he either discontinued relationship with his sister or we were over those lies were a deal breaker for me. The same will be true for anyone else that I find out about or comes into our life.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Emptyshelldad said:


> But most women's friends I've seen are not just enablers, but they encourage the behavior and are active participants in the deceit and betrayal. And this women as a whole from my experience.


I think this is true of both women and men. If you read the BW's threads here, you will see exactly the same thing - men encouraging other men to cheat, men keeping the secret, etc.

It's my own experience in life that people love the juicy gossip and love to be on the inside, but 'don't want to get involved.' It's the rare bird who will take a stand and actually act on it. I have two (ex-) friends who cheated on their H's and told me about it much later, after their divorces. They both independently said that they couldn't confide in me because they knew I 'wouldn't approve.' I read this to mean that I would pressure them to stop and confess, which is true. And it turns out, in our old neighborhood, one of the H's was cheating and ALL the men knew about it but didn't tell their wives. Certainly, none of them enlightened the BW. So it goes.

I really think that people who know about this and encourage it and/or keep the secret are not friends of the marriage, no matter what they were told by the cheating spouse. It doesn't matter how black a picture the WS paints, the person should address the issues in MC, file for divorce, suffer in silence - whatever floats their boat except cheating, physical violence or murder.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*My skanky XW has a girlfriend that had for many years prior, as a college student, had been a baby-sitter for her three young kids in another city.

Well, this girlfriend ultimately married a super-nice guy from out of state, who like me, was a Freemason. His FIL, also a Mason, and a very good friend of mine and who happened to be the one who had sponsored this SIL into Masonic membership, all sat in lodge together at various times.

Following my "trial separation" from my skanky XW, she(unbeknownst to me at the time) continued to see two different men, one of which lived and worked in this married couples home city. 

One of my close friends who is on FB, relayed several pictures from that medium to me, of not only my W, but her lardass BF in a "huggy," "lovey-dovey" pose at a N'Awlins restaurant together during our separation phase.

Weeks later, I received yet another cuddly photo of not only "The Skank" and "Lil' Lord Lardass" together, but a seemingly professional photo of all four of them together with their cuddly head shots closely together with one couple on top and one on the bottom, with the caption, "Good Friends!"

That quickly told me that this young couple, who had once been my friends, was not only actively aiding and abetting my skanky XW's adulterous relationship with her lardass lover, but was providing them a rendevous bed right in their own domicile whenever my XW ventured into that city to see him/them.

I can only hope that I, in time, will be able to run across this pair, so that I can richly thank them for all that did for me in helping to foster the breakup of our marriage. But I greatly look forward to visiting with this guy's FIL and telling him what a sorry SIL he has, who had a fraternal obligation of notifying me about my wife's sordid activities, instead of making himself such an unwitting party to it!*


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My wife's middle sister. I will never have anything to do with her again. My wife has been talking to her from time to time. I said my piece to her. She supported my wife then me and the last conversation we had she went all nutty on me and called me a liar. She was involved in my wife's A in 1999 and was doing the same thing (cheating on her husband). With their history I will not have a thing to do with her. 

My wife reunited with HS friends, most she had no contact with in over 30 years, until her A. She lied to them and most of them have no contact with her after she came clean. They felt used.


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