# whether to disclose revenge affair against WS stated wishes



## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

Wow, this post got long, but please bear with me. The TL;DR is the subject line.

WW had a PA/EA years ago. Ended it, but used it to verbally abuse me (BH) for a few years (e.g. "he gave me things you can't, etc."), alongside some pitifully ineffective MC and a lot of rugsweeping. Throughout the years, in guilty moments when confronted with my pain, WW even told me to have an affair of my own, also saying she wouldn't want to know about it.

I did, commencing years after her A (not because she told me too, but that helped - I was not entirely comfortable with it, but of course pursued it and am fully accountable for it). My motivation was only secondarily revenge - really, I wanted emotional companionship that I didn't have with WW. Sex (at the end) was sort of a bonus - WW and I have never fallen below a few times a week, so it's not like I had to go looking. My A was EA only for years before it turned PA, now it's been over for a few months. I'm convinced, and for your replies, please assume, that she has no concrete idea about my A even if she vaguely suspects it in the general sense.

I recently insisted that we return to MC to deal with the unresolved aspects of her A (projection much? sure, but it's definitely true that we never dealt with her A properly). This counselor is much more effective than anything we've done before, and I feel like, despite troubles related to the elapsed time and abuse, we're getting somewhere.

In our discussions, I've asked her again, whether, if I were to have an affair, she'd want to know about it all, and any details - "no" and "no" has been her answer.

Here's the trouble - she's responding so well to this round of MC, that I think I see the possibility of establishing true intimacy and a good life-long marriage in a way that's never been thinkable before. The cornerstone of this has been her full disclosure (subject to memory issues because of the time involved) in a way I've never had before - although she had angrily and hurtfully disclosed the PA in a fight (I knew about the EA while it was happening) and later used it savagely, she had always declined to provide much detail about the EA, claiming that it was better to leave it in the past, and claiming that her feelings of guilt and shame traumatized her too much to revisit the details. For my part, I absolutely wanted all the details. Now I'm finally getting what's left in her now distant memory, perhaps to the best of her ability (can't be sure, but it seems so). And I'm feeling hope for our marriage that I've never felt before.

Let's be clear - I do feel guilty, and there's some selfish appeal to appeasing the guilty feelings by telling her, as well as anticipated satisfaction for letting her know I "got her back" so to speak. I feel those feelings, but don't endorse them. 

Further, I'm hopeful, but I'm not 100% convinced that she's being completely forthcoming about the EA aspects of her A ("he was an attractive and supportive friend who I happened to have lame sex with once", essentially - *not* emotionally consistent with abusive talk from the past), and to the extent that she's holding back, I wonder whether my disclosure would fully open the floodgates, although perhaps in not the best of ways.

Long setup for this question: I'm willing to take my A to the grave if that's what's best for the marriage, but, because of the increase in intimacy that I'm feeling as a result of her apparent openness, I'm wondering whether my own disclosure will be required to get where we both want to be. She absolutely has the right to know. It's just that she's expressed the desire not to know. 

Anyone been through this before?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

OH the tangled webs we weave!


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

You're still not going to deal with it if you don't lay all your cards on the table, I'm against RAs in general but when you've already had one why keep it to yourself?

Besides, how do you think you can have a good marriage if you are not gonna start with the truth?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

anonymouskitty said:


> You're still not going to deal with it if you don't lay all your cards on the table, I'm against RAs in general but when you've already had one why keep it to yourself?
> 
> Besides, how do you think you can have a good marriage if you are not gonna start with the truth?


anonymouskitty - that rings true for me, and yes, this is a great case study about why RAs are bad - I have more to say on this, but I don't want to get OT.

So - how to go about it? It occurs to me to tell our marriage counselor separately and seek his advice about how to approach the issue, but the problem is that we always see him together.

My wife and I plan to spend a lot of time together this weekend away from our house so that we can talk about things (and this is prior to our next MC appointment) - I'm also thinking about whether to tell her during these talks, but I just don't know. And part of me still wants to respect her wishes and not tell her.

edit: and truthfully, another part of me wants to exact revenge for her abuse by telling her in a hurtful way. I have no intention of doing that, but I have to acknowledge the feeling and have a strategy to ensure that it doesn't strengthen and take over during a disclosure.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

JB100 said:


> How long was her EA for and her PA for?
> 
> Your EA lasted years and the PA has been going on for 2.5 months right?
> 
> I think you should reveal it and put all cards on the table and go forward.


Her EA was about 6 months, and was long distance for all but the beginning - the PA was one night about three months in, and involved travel by both of them.

My EA was about 11 years long, although we would go as long as a couple of years with no contact (and it's arguable as to whether you'd characterize it as an EA for the first years - just getting together for lunch every couple of years, essentially, with very sparse phone calls in between), and the PA was about a year long, but with as much as a couple of months with no contact during that time. In almost every respect, except for possibly emotional involvement, which I still don't have a perfect read on for my wife, my A was much worse. I never planned to leave the marriage for the [exceedingly patient] OW, and W says she didn't do so for the OM. We both extensively discussed our marriage problems with the Os.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

thrwy said:


> Wow, this post got long, but please bear with me. The TL;DR is the subject line.
> 
> WW had a PA/EA years ago. Ended it, but used it to verbally abuse me (BH) for a few years (e.g. "he gave me things you can't, etc."), alongside some pitifully ineffective MC and a lot of rugsweeping. Throughout the years, in guilty moments when confronted with my pain, WW even told me to have an affair of my own, also saying she wouldn't want to know about it.
> 
> ...


She gave you permission, I see any cheating on your part her fault. Did you complicate things? Yup. Is it her fault for giving you permission and cheating in the first place? yes. Does she DESERVE to know. HELL NO.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Two negatives cant result in any positivity.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Why are you still married, again?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

snap said:


> Why are you still married, again?


Fair question, and one asked by one of the early marriage counselors.

We love each other.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> Two negatives cant result in any positivity.


Except in math.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

badbane said:


> OH the tangled webs we weave!


Truly! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

thrwy said:


> Fair question, and one asked by one of the early marriage counselors.
> 
> We love each other.


Just that from your original post you look more like enemies caught under the same roof. She taunts you with her affair, you seek revenge..


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I feel you should get honest with your side of street especially since you are already in MC, Is your affair over with and are you NC with your ap ?? its not like she cant call the kettle black, anyway I had a affair and my wife had a revenge affair 3 yrs ago we decided on reconcilation as we both felt we loved each other, anyway we went to mc for about 6 months, the therapist felt we had done a great amount of work on our relationship 3 yrs later and we both are truly happy so yes recovery can happen even if both have affairs we celebrated 12 yrs of M last month 

Good Luck


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

snap said:


> Just that from your original post you look more like enemies caught under the same roof. She taunts you with her affair, you seek revenge..


That characterization has certainly been accurate at times. But we've been together for a really long time, and there have been lots of good times. The last few years have been generally good (except for my behavior), punctuated by a few hell-on-earth fights. She has shot the nuke of threatening another affair in a couple of those (been over a year since the last time), but hasn't [directly] used the one she had as a weapon in over a decade.

Also, we have kids, and a good life together in all other respects.

Don't get me wrong - I've contemplated divorce many times, even filling out a petition last night (freakin' mood swings - probably brought on by the precariousness of the dilemma that's the subject of this post), but she says she'll fight it every step of the way, for one thing (the stick), and she really seems engaged for perhaps the first time on actually getting closer (the carrot).


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> I feel you should get honest with your side of street especially since you are already in MC, Is your affair over with and are you NC with your ap ?? its not like she cant call the kettle black, anyway I had a affair and my wife had a revenge affair 3 yrs ago we decided on reconcilation as we both felt we loved each other, anyway we went to mc for about 6 months, the therapist felt we had done a great amount of work on our relationship 3 yrs later and we both are truly happy so yes recovery can happen even if both have affairs we celebrated 12 yrs of M last month
> 
> Good Luck


Thanks! Encouraging! How did you find out about the revenge affair? And how did you feel?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

thrwy, you have some weird marriage going on there. Masochistic stuff, she hurts you you hurt her...



> Fair question, and one asked by one of the early marriage counselors.
> 
> We love each other.


You have a strange way of showing it.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

thrwy said:


> Thanks! Encouraging! How did you find out about the revenge affair? And how did you feel?


She told me i didnt like it of course but what could i say
she had a ons with an old flame from years ago. Actually it pissed me off I was going to go kick his ass however my wife said that it was her that started it and led him on etc if it wasnt him it would have been someone else thats just where we were at the time. plus I had an affair and she was doing all the heavy lifting like going to mc and stuff I was still on the fence so to speak. However I am glad that we both decided to stay married it wasnt easy in the beginning but now i wouldnt trade it for anything 


I had a 6 month long affair with a girl half my age lol anyway
joking I thought she would be impressed that I still had it in me -sorry


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

costa200 said:


> thrwy, you have some weird marriage going on there. Masochistic stuff, she hurts you you hurt her...
> 
> 
> 
> You have a strange way of showing it.


Sure, but I can't imagine our story is wildly different from the others on here that didn't end up in divorce. True, I've read some pretty good ones here, but pick any of the bad stories and don't include a divorce, and I bet you'll find similarities.

Anyway, I'm gathering that it's best for me to just tell her as kindly as I can, then we can talk about it in MC. I'll plan on this weekend.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Revenge affairs? Too dangerous. Been there, done that, don't want the T-shirt.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

What if telling her becomes a deal breaker? She said she didn't want to know, and on top if that hers was barely a pinch to your bucket full. Yours is only very recently finished. Have u given her a hard time over it all this time too? I would think very very carefully before u say anything to anyone if I were you. Anyone. This marriage is finally going somewhere it seems and u are about to devastate her with some serious sh*t stuff. 

Be very very careful. Once it is out there u can't take it back. From here, I would say u need to forget it ever happened, pretend it never happened, start afresh, turn over a new and decent leaf, and move on like u never did a thing...obviously with no giving her any flack for her misdemeanor too. That is the only way u will be able to forgive yourself and get close to the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. Pretend someone else did it. Make the decision and don't blurt it out. you may live to deeply regret it. Tho u know best how she would react. Do what is right by her. Telling her I feel is not.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Let's be clear - I do feel guilty, and there's some selfish appeal to appeasing the guilty feelings by telling her, as well as anticipated satisfaction for letting her know I "got her back" so to speak. I feel those feelings, but don't endorse them.


 Well that's good news. You evened the playing field so now she can feel the pain of being betrayed, and you can deal with the fact that you are no better than she was. Awesome. You chose to do exactly what she did, and now you two are one and the same.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

good points. [sigh]


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Well that's good news. You evened the playing field so now she can feel the pain of being betrayed, and you can deal with the fact that you are no better than she was. Awesome. You chose to do exactly what she did, and now you two are one and the same.


Yes. So what do you say? Tell her or no?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Yes. So what do you say? Tell her or no?


 I say tell her. She deserves to know who you truly are, just as you know who she is.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> I say tell her. She deserves to know who you truly are, just as you know who she is.


Dawn, it is not always so cut and dried.

I cheated because my wife's affair left me broken. We rugswept. It was a stupid, wrong thing for me to do, but I did it. And regretted it straight away.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

MattMatt said:


> Dawn, it is not always so cut and dried.
> 
> I cheated because my wife's affair left me broken. We rugswept. It was a stupid, wrong thing for me to do, but I did it. And regretted it straight away.


 I don't doubt it isn't cut and dry, but given his sentiments on his cheating, I don' think he realizes that now he has to face the same consequences from cheating as she did, it isn't as easy as just "oh it was to get you back, but I am still the better person". 

I can see why a RA would seem like a good idea, I tossed it around as well. But I got lucky and some people here were able to help me see how it would take away a part of who I was. Super lucky on that one.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Dawn, it is not always so cut and dried.
> 
> I cheated because my wife's affair left me broken. We rugswept. It was a stupid, wrong thing for me to do, but I did it. And regretted it straight away.


Does she know? If so, how did she find out, and can you provide details about how it went down?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> it isn't as easy as just "oh it was to get you back, but I am still the better person".


I hope I didn't give that impression. Admittedly, I've sort of felt that way before, but not now. I really just want to make things work.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> I hope I didn't give that impression. Admittedly, I've sort of felt that way before, but not now. I really just want to make things work.


Have YOU dealt with who you are now? ( Not meant in a snotty way) That was my biggest reason for not having an RA, I would lose a piece of who I am and who I wanted to be. Who was the AP? You might have answered that already. I don't know if the comment above is how you truly feel, but I do think you aren't grasping the seriousness of your actions. 

Is an RA understandable? Sure I get why it would seem like a good idea. Is it worth it? I dunno, was it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thrwy said:


> Does she know? If so, how did she find out, and can you provide details about how it went down?


The morning after I told a good friend what I had done. She said: "Oh, Matt! You idiot! What have you done? You must tell xxxxxx what you have done, right away."

So I did. My wife's affair hurt me. My own affair? Devastated me far worse.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Yes, do tell. Then reality will allow both of you to move forward.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Have YOU dealt with who you are now?
> 
> ...
> 
> Is an RA understandable? Sure I get why it would seem like a good idea. Is it worth it? I dunno, was it?


To your first question, probably not. Her affair and subsequent abuse crushed me, and it's only recently (from some posts on this board) that I considered the possibility of defining my self-esteem as coming from somewhere else.

For your second question - again, I don't want to go OT - but my A *did* help with mind movies (I can now swap out images of her and him with memories of me and her), and it did serve to prop up my pride in a perverse way. I had passed up several opportunities for an affair (including one that would have been simultaneous to hers), and doing so seemed to feed a lower self-image - I was the crushed guy who just took it and felt bad about himself. The abuse was a big factor in this. But before, I also had the notion that I took marriage and commitment seriously, and reveled in a sort of holier-than-thou state because of that. Of course, that's gone now. Which was more phony, the self-righteousness I felt before, or the false pride I felt afterward? Dunno. I got work to do, clearly.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> To your first question, probably not. Her affair and subsequent abuse crushed me, and it's only recently (from some posts on this board) that I considered the possibility of defining my self-esteem as coming from somewhere else.
> 
> For your second question - again, I don't want to go OT - but my A *did* help with mind movies (I can now swap out images of her and him with memories of me and her), and it did serve to prop up my pride in a perverse way. I had passed up several opportunities for an affair (including one that would have been simultaneous to hers), and doing so seemed to feed a lower self-image - I was the crushed guy who just took it and felt bad about himself. But before, I also had the notion that I took marriage and commitment seriously, and reveled in a sort of holier-than-thou state because of that. Of course, that's gone now. Which was more phony, the self-righteousness I felt before, or the false pride I felt afterward? Dunno. I got work to do, clearly.



whats the deal with the AP? Was she married or committed to someone else? 


I really do know where you were at. I even made my H give me a "free pass" to have sex with another man just as many times as he had sex with his OW. I was pissed, hurt, and wanted him to feel that pain.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> whats the deal with the AP? Was she married or committed to someone else?


Both APs were single at all relevant times. I did promise myself that I would never sleep with a married woman, knowing what it feels like on the other end - I love humanity more than that.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Both APs were single at all relevant times. I did promise myself that I would never sleep with a married woman, knowing what it feels like on the other end - I love humanity more than that.


 Well at least the only fallout to face will be within your family, which can make recovery slightly easier. Have you decided what you want to do yet?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Well at least the only fallout to face will be within your family, which can make recovery slightly easier. Have you decided what you want to do yet?


Yes and no - it seems inevitable that I must tell her at some point, but I'm still clueless as to when and how.

Will doing it now help or hinder the remainder of our work on her affair? Will it help her open up about anything she hasn't told me, or will it make her shut down? If disclosing now, is it better brought up in a MC session or not? If so, should the counselor be in on it prior to the disclosure?

If I tell later, will she feel more betrayed that I waited until we got through the earlier stuff? Or relieved that we did so we can focus solely on my A?

Still pretty confused, to tell the truth.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Yes and no - it seems inevitable that I must tell her at some point, but I'm still clueless as to when and how.
> 
> Will doing it now help or hinder the remainder of our work on her affair? Will it help her open up about anything she hasn't told me, or will it make her shut down? If disclosing now, is it better brought up in a MC session or not? If so, should the counselor be in on it prior to the disclosure?
> 
> ...


I can only tell you what I would feel. I wish I knew how your wife would feel, but you are a better judge of that than I am at this point.

If you let her spend months or even a year re hashing her affair, having her do all this work, outing herself and her actions, explaining, etc, etc and then turned around and told her "oh, by the way, I cheated too", I think that would be the worst idea. I would freak out and probably file for divorce in anger. Its one thing to work on the marriage, its another to make her own up to her behaviors and actions without confessing that you have done the same.

I don't know, its a tough choice, but for me, better sooner than later. The quicker I know, the quicker I can start dealing with it. But that is not true for everyone


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

Oh yeah, and then there's that part where she said she wouldn't want to know. She's said that at least twice in the last few weeks when I've found creative ways to ask without giving it away... So I guess I'm still on the fence altogether.

Or maybe that means definitely not now, but I should somehow discretely inquire repeatedly as time goes on to see if she changes her mind?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Oh yeah, and then there's that part where she said she wouldn't want to know. She's said that at least twice in the last few weeks when I've found creative ways to ask without giving it away... So I guess I'm still on the fence altogether.
> 
> Or maybe that means definitely not now, but I should somehow discretely inquire repeatedly as time goes on to see if she changes her mind?


Its just avoidance. she doesn't want to be hurt. Problem is , does that mean she is avoiding hurting you too? Are you comfortable with the fact that she doesn't want to know? Do you think in her mind that makes it okay to keep this kind of information from you unless she is "found out" so to speak?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Its just avoidance. she doesn't want to be hurt. Problem is , does that mean she is avoiding hurting you too? Are you comfortable with the fact that she doesn't want to know? Do you think in her mind that makes it okay to keep this kind of information from you unless she is "found out" so to speak?


If by being "found out" you mean cross examined into a point where she's contradicting herself and backed so far into a corner that she reluctantly divulges something that finally sounds real, then, yeah, that's been her pattern. Since I'm asking about emotions and thoughts, I can't present any hard evidence. She chalks up her reticence to exactly what you're saying, shame/guilt + not wanting to hurt my feelings.

Anyway, that's something to think about - if it's true, I'm not sure whether it would change after I disclose, but I suppose that's not the point.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She knows. She don't know the details but she knows damm well.


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## blueskies30 (Jan 27, 2010)

thrwy said:


> Her EA was about 6 months, and was long distance for all but the beginning - the PA was one night about three months in, and involved travel by both of them.
> 
> My EA was about 11 years long, although we would go as long as a couple of years with no contact (and it's arguable as to whether you'd characterize it as an EA for the first years - just getting together for lunch every couple of years, essentially, with very sparse phone calls in between), and the PA was about a year long, but with as much as a couple of months with no contact during that time. In almost every respect, except for possibly emotional involvement, which I still don't have a perfect read on for my wife, my A was much worse. I never planned to leave the marriage for the [exceedingly patient] OW, and W says she didn't do so for the OM. We both extensively discussed our marriage problems with the Os.


I'm in a similar situation, only we have not started seeing a effective MC yet. We did see a MC after hubby moved back in, but she enabled hubby to rugsweep and past is past.....forget and never forgive kind of thing....

My hubby does not want to talk about OW/OM.....

I would love to be able to talk about things openly....I'd love to be able to lay all my guilt out there....I'm the one who had a EA before my hubby moved out...then turned to basicly a ONS (cause it was only one night of sex) during our seperation.

I know my husband knows more about OM than hes letting on. He mentioned OM breifly today. When I told him about over hearing a phone conversation most likely about his brothers wife cheating.
Out of the blue hubby said that He and his biker gang friend were going to locate OM and show him the what for.....

Anyway..My husband had a strictly sexual PA during seperation. he is like your wife wanting to just rug sweep it all and leave it all in the past like nothing ever happened.

Sometimes I want to tell him I had sex with another person too, just in anger, but I hold my self back.....My husband does not want to hear about OM at all and he doesn't want to talk about OW. He says it gets him all riled up and makes his stomach hurt. So I guess yes hes hurt about OM and yes he feels guilty about OW, but he just can't openly talk about it except for an out of the blue tid bit here and there.

Made me feel good that he wanted to kick the OMs ass though. I wish he would have early on. I wish I was comfronted by him point blank with what he possibly knew I was doing


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

thrwy said:


> Anyone been through this before?


joe kidd and pidge_70 come to mind. Ask them. joe had the RA and he would probably say its not worth it.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks to everyone (especially DawnD). Here's where I'm at. This weekend, I'll bring up the fact that she's expressed she wouldn't want to hear about an affair as a way to discuss whether that sentiment is also behind her reluctance to discuss her EA. That way: 1) it may result in a more frank discussion of her EA, and 2) it may lead her to re-examine whether her probably pain-avoidance motivation is really worth permanent concealment of important things, like a RA. Depending on how #2 goes, I might disclose.

Sound good?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> Thanks to everyone (especially DawnD). Here's where I'm at. This weekend, I'll bring up the fact that she's expressed she wouldn't want to hear about an affair as a way to discuss whether that sentiment is also behind her reluctance to discuss her EA. That way: 1) it may result in a more frank discussion of her EA, and 2) it may lead her to re-examine whether her probably pain-avoidance motivation is really worth permanent concealment of important things, like a RA. Depending on how #2 goes, I might disclose.
> 
> Sound good?


 OP -- I just realized you said you had an 11 year long EA. is that right or a typo?


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> OP -- I just realized you said you had an 11 year long EA. is that right or a typo?


That may be an exaggeration, but when I was a co-worker with the AP, we'd go out to smoke and have conversations that were inappropriate (about sex, or my marriage troubles). If you count that as the start of the EA, which you could, then yes, 11 years (only worked together for a month or two). Very slow roll, though - we'd go years during that period without talking, and only did talk maybe 2 or three times a year, getting together for lunch maybe once every two years. She re-initiated contact about a year and a half ago, inviting me to her apartment. I had a couple of platonic visits with her before the PA started, but we were communicating more frequently (once or twice a week) from that point. If you start the clock then, then it would be just over a year long.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> That may be an exaggeration, but when I was a co-worker with the AP, we'd go out to smoke and have conversations that were inappropriate (about sex, or my marriage troubles). If you count that as the start of the EA, which you could, then yes, 11 years (only worked together for a month or two). Very slow roll, though - we'd go years during that period without talking, and only did talk maybe 2 or three times a year, getting together for lunch maybe once every two years. She re-initiated contact about a year and a half ago, inviting me to her apartment. I had a couple of platonic visits with her before the PA started, but we were communicating more frequently (once or twice a week) from that point. If you start the clock then, then it would be just over a year long.


So there is the possibility that you were cheating on each other at the same time? I really, really think you need to come clean OP. If you seriously go through counseling together, working on your feelings about HER affair, all the while omitting that you had one ( an 11 year one at that) I see her viewing you as a hypocrite and possibly leaving you because you had her on the wire when you should have been as well. I can't say that for certain, but its highly likely. In the end its up to you, but I think if you wait, you are going to make it much harder to recover. Just my opinion though


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

DawnD said:


> So there is the possibility that you were cheating on each other at the same time?


I didn't meet my AP until at least 5 years after her A was over. 

But you're making a great point - thanks.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

So.. spent some time, but not as much as planned, together. Her assignment from MC was to provide enough information about her A that I could close the file on it and move on to other subjects. She went through her normal avoidance strategies - small talk, long pauses, talking retrospectively about how she was wrong and feels terrible, rather than describing what was going on with her at the time.

She did provide some additional info and insight ultimately. I can't say we're there yet, but maybe we're as far as we'll get, given the time lapse. 

I again brought up the fact that she repeatedly said she wouldn't want to know about an A if I had one, using the subject to illustrate that she might be avoiding discussion of her own for the same reasons, assuming I would feel the same as her (thanks again DawnD!). Whenever I pushed beyond that envelop (i.e., going in the direction of disclosure), she got really agitated and pulled the subject away. Twice, she used the "sex now" strategy, where she insists that we stop talking and do it.

That strategy works - I have two choices: 1) comply, in which case the subject is effectively off the table, or 2) resist, in which case the subject is off the table because it's paramount that I'm rejecting her - emotions spike and we're fighting and not speaking very quickly. In either case, I'm in a corner where disclosure of the A would be more hurtful than necessary, so I didn't do it. (chose option 1 both times, by the way - option 2 sucks, as has been proven out the very few times I've chosen it.)

Sigh...


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

thrwy said:


> So.. spent some time, but not as much as planned, together. Her assignment from MC was to provide enough information about her A that I could close the file on it and move on to other subjects. She went through her normal avoidance strategies - small talk, long pauses, talking retrospectively about how she was wrong and feels terrible, rather than describing what was going on with her at the time.
> 
> She did provide some additional info and insight ultimately. I can't say we're there yet, but maybe we're as far as we'll get, given the time lapse.
> 
> ...


Okay, so you are back in MC years after your wifes affair, having her atone for her affair. Because it wasn't dealt with then. Now here you are, allowing her to atone for her choices, all the while sitting there knowing you have done the same. Do you not find it really hypocritical to have your wife being evaluated as a cheater in MC, given homework to help YOU heal, and having to deal with all the baggage that comes along with that, while you sit there silently knowing that you did the same exact thing?

I still say this is going to end badly. from your first post, you said you two rugswept and all that jazz with her affair. And now you are willing to sit here and basically do the same exact thing. You are in a cycle, and you are repeating it.


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## thrwy (Jul 19, 2012)

Of course I feel hypocritical. But it's not that I'm willing to do the same thing on my side. I just want to find the best way to deal with it. When she says (and otherwise demonstrates) that she doesn't want to know, it's a tough one to get past.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She obviously knows. She states she doesn't want to know once and again. She deals with things diferently (I think it's unhealthy but she's her own master). *Drop the subject*.
You keep working in your healing from her affair and self imrpovement in order to "affair prooff" yourself.

Take care.


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