# To Put Out or Not To Put Out



## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

Hi there.. I've debated with myself about where to start...there are so many problems in my marriage...
But since my husband says that if we had more sex, everything else would get better, I guess I'll start here, in the sex forum. 
*waving hi to everyone*

So, hubby has a WAY high sex drive, he's even gone so far as to blame his infidelity on the fact that he's a sex addict (although I don't buy that for a minute). I, on the other hand, have a very LOW sex drive.

In the beginning we had a great sex life, although I was not (and still am not) able to achieve orgasm (at least not with a man, I can by myself.. ahem.. how much is too much info...hahaha...). The reason I enjoyed it so much is because it felt great to be close to him, I wanted to please him, it made me feel good about myself, etc etc.. And then just the closeness I felt with him when we made love was incomparable. 

Time went on...... kids were born.... life became hectic... he became resentful of the kids for taking up my time (he admitted this in counseling)... his anal retentive nature isn't very compatible with the hectic life of a busy family, and little things would make him a bear to live with (water dripped on a sink, gates left open, etc...)... he was a grouch much of the time with the kids... which in turn made me more protective of them... it turned into "us" and "him"... 
And sex became something I didn't want. I didn't feel close to him.. I didn't really even want to be around him. So it turned into a chore. At one point we each kept separate calenders in which we would keep track of the nights we had sex because I would say once a week and he would say once a month. But even then we couldn't agree on how often it was because he refused to count the times he felt I was emotionally disconnected during sex. He would tell me that if I had sex with him more often then he would be nicer to the kids. This infuriated me, how dare he "be nice" to the kids conditionally? 

And then he started cheating (I didn't know until he had been doing it for more than a year). I guess that was the biggest deal-breaker for me. It wrecked me. It changed me, and not in a good way. After we had spent a year in counseling, with no tangible results, I got the bright idea that I would cheat on him, and then maybe I would be able to forgive him. I should have gotten a Moron-of-the-Year award for THAT decision... But at the time I rationalized my behavior...I was getting the strokes that I didn't get at home. It felt so good to be with someone who didn't put me down, who listened to me, who agreed that I was the wronged one in our marriage.... basically I slept with someone to feel good about myself. Total B.S., I know that now.

All that is past. It's all been discussed til it can't be discussed any more. We never really came to terms with all of it, we just agreed that we were both wrong and that we would never do it again. 

So back to sex... I don't like it, but he needs it. Should I fake it because that's part of being married, doing things we don't necessarily want to do for the sake of our partners? Or do I not have sex until I want to? Could be never. I should add that when I DO have sex with him I am always so glad & relieved that I did it and I feel better about "us" for a little while. It's just that it feels so fake when I don't want to in the first place. He always asks me "are you SURE you want to do this??" every time, making me feel like an even bigger creep for lying and saying "Yeah".... 

Any tips/comments/suggestions would be much appreciated, and thanks for reading.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sent you a PM on this. 



lorithehun said:


> Hi there.. I've debated with myself about where to start...there are so many problems in my marriage...
> But since my husband says that if we had more sex, everything else would get better, I guess I'll start here, in the sex forum.
> *waving hi to everyone*
> 
> ...


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## 20yrs (Sep 18, 2009)

I agree... do it, even if you don't feel like it.

Something happens when you go ahead and do it....many women don't have orgasms while 'doing it' but there are other ways that H can help you achieve one... you might have to help him a bit.

Meet his need on a regular basis and I bet things will settle down a bit for both of you.


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## hideandseek (Sep 21, 2009)

I just read an article about our sexual baggage that directly speaks to your issue. I strongly suggest you read it:

ThatsFit.ca - Food, Relationships, Health, Fitness and Beauty


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

Atholk said:


> I say do it. But be honest with him that you aren't really "in the mood", but you hope by going through the motions regularly enough, that you warm up to doing it more.
> 
> It's kind of like exercise. When you're terribly unfit you're never in the mood to exercise. After exercising enough you feel fit, and actually really start to like exercising.
> 
> ...


I can't tell him that I'm not really in the mood, he's stated many times that he won't do it unless he's convinced I want it, too. Although the way you put it, likening it to exercise, makes a lot of sense, and maybe if I explained it to him in those terms he would be ok with it.. 

I have a bad feeling that he may be cheating again. Can't pinpoint why, exactly... a combination of things... for the last week or so he's stopped pestering me about sex, he's emotionally distant.. he's just not been as "needy" the past week or so. We also just bought a new house, and that may be why... lots of stress.. 

So last night I asked him to watch our little girl so I could take a bath... I was holding a towel and a sexy nighty & he knew what I wanted to do after bathing. 
He didn't question at all if I wanted to or not. 
He said, after, that out of all the women he's been with I am by far the best. 
Funny thing to say. 

Thanks for the reply, and I am going to try that exercise thing.. exercise _*does*_ work just like that for me.. at first I hate it, then I almost can't live without it. Hope it works!


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

hideandseek said:


> I just read an article about our sexual baggage that directly speaks to your issue. I strongly suggest you read it:
> 
> ThatsFit.ca - Food, Relationships, Health, Fitness and Beauty


Thanks, and you're right, it was quite accurate about some of the ways I feel.. I might look for the book at the library, I'd like to read more about that. The theory (SWS) makes complete sense.
Thanks again!


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## mea_3 (Sep 13, 2009)

lorithehun said:


> Hi there.. I've debated with myself about where to start...there are so many problems in my marriage...
> But since my husband says that if we had more sex, everything else would get better, I guess I'll start here, in the sex forum.
> *waving hi to everyone*
> 
> ...


First of all I'm very taken back by the simple fact that he stated everything else would be good if there was more sex? What kind of statement is that?:scratchhead: What about your needs? I'm sorry but he sounds very selfish.

And NO. IMO,You should not just give it to him because he needs it. If your not getting any pleasure from the act then why fake it? I think you both need some counseling here. Sounds like there are some issues to work through. Good luck.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Hideandseek... Great article! But what about SMS (single man sex) baggage? Any articles on that?


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Lorithehun... wow, not sure. The exercise thing sounds great, if you think you can do it and not feel "hollow" and "resentful" as in the article. That would be terrific if it fixed things.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

20yrs said:


> I agree... do it, even if you don't feel like it.
> 
> Something happens when you go ahead and do it....many women don't have orgasms while 'doing it' but there are other ways that H can help you achieve one... you might have to help him a bit.
> 
> Meet his need on a regular basis and I bet things will settle down a bit for both of you.


Yeah, I have no doubt that things will settle down for us if he got sex on a regular basis. Here's part of my problem.. I feel sort of like a prostitute when I do it for ulterior motives..for example, have sex with him so things will settle down, have sex with him so he'll be less of a grouch, have sex with him to keep him from cheating. While I know that he has needs and, as his wife, I should meet them... well, what about me? (I know, I sound like a pouting child...) I'm sure that in time, with regularity, I'll stop feeling like such a hooker... So I'll keep it up... anyway, the votes are in, not one person here so far has said "Nah, don't do it unless you wanna.."... dammit... 

Your suggestion that my husband help me to reach orgasm is a good one, but we've tried that, and I give up... We've been married 10 years and I've tried to show him how. He's just too rough. (I mean orally or manually.. ) And I always get the feeling he's hoping I hurry up so he can get to the good stuff... like a kid who's hustling to eat his veggies so he can get to dessert.. So I feel pressured, which makes reaching orgasm all the more impossible.

Thanks for your reply


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

mea_3 said:


> First of all I'm very taken back by the simple fact that he stated everything else would be good if there was more sex? What kind of statement is that?:scratchhead: What about your needs? I'm sorry but he sounds very selfish.
> 
> And NO. IMO,You should not just give it to him because he needs it. If your not getting any pleasure from the act then why fake it? I think you both need some counseling here. Sounds like there are some issues to work through. Good luck.


Yeah, that statement cracked me up, too (everything else would get better with more sex..) 
But I think he thinks of it like this:
more sex = happy man = man who's nicer to kids = happier kids = happier wife etc etc and it snowballs. And really, he's probably not too far off base... it probably will work that way.

Counseling, we've been through several years of couseling (on and off, a total of several years, individual and couples) but we've not addressed sex much while there. I really think I am going to try the 'fake it til you make it' approach now. Can't hurt, and at worst I'll burn a few calories (wait, at worst I may start feeling resentful, self esteem might plummet.. BUT if I look at it the right way, that I am doing it for BOTH of us, that I am doing it for our family, and I am doing it because I WANT to want sex and this might help me get there... then maybe it's not so bad...

Ack, I'm trying to type while getting kids ready for school, so please forgive grammatical errors... Thanks for replying!


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

Sex is a bigger part of our relationships than we want to admit sometimes and if 2 people are really far off on getting their needs met then it is hard to make a good marriage. My ex wife did not want sex as much as me but almost never turned me down. She looked at it as if it was a small burden for her and made me happy, why not do it? Plus she really got into it about 30% of the time. This is the same as I might do something for her. And ladies, if giving your man sex is a BIG burden for you then that is another whole problem altogether. How is “the need to not have sex” a real need than can be equaled to wanting sex? Which is tougher, not drinking when you are thirsty or having a drink when you are already quenched? No comparison.

I have for sure had the experience that sex begets more sex, which begets great sex, which begets a closer relationship. Even I have gotten into the habit of not doing it and when we made an effort to do it more often we felt more emotionally connected. And sadly, I used the lack of satisfying sex as an excuse to find some outside the marriage, which ultimately led to the end of that marriage. No justification is right about that but I felt there was at the time.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

chuckf75 said:


> And ladies, if giving your man sex is a BIG burden for you then that is another whole problem altogether. How is “the need to not have sex” a real need than can be equaled to wanting sex? Which is tougher, not drinking when you are thirsty or having a drink when you are already quenched? No comparison.
> .


When a woman isn't ready for sex there can be physical problems... it's sometimes painful when a woman isn't "into" it.. There have been a few times when I was SO not into it that it wouldn't work, I couldn't relax enough for penetration to happen. That's rare, mostly lubrication takes care of that..

Still, CAN you imagine regularly having sex when you didn't want to? Wouldn't it make you feel just a little bit like a piece of meat? A little bit used? Maybe you can't understand it... I think sex is more of an emotional event for women than it is for men. Ya know I'd GLADLY, happily, grab a shovel and dig a ditch beside my husband for an hour each night if he asked me to. I'd be more than happy to help him with ANY sort of physical activity on a daily basis. But sex isn't just a physical activity.. I can't explain it any better than that. It really isn't because Imma ***** who is punishing my husband by withholding.. it's almost as if I am not being true to myself when I have sex SOLELY for someone else's sake.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm sorry, maybe this is too simplistic for me, but if sex is a "chore" or you aren't that into your husband, why even be with your husband?

If I wasn't sexually attracted to my wife and her to me and sex stopped I'd have a HARD time sticking around.

Sex is way more important to a marriage than most people want to think. Its just as important, in my eyes, as being nice/friendly to each other in general. 

Even my wife, who has a smaller libido than I, has said many times, the best times in our marriage is when we are having sex very often. When sex gets "put on the back burner" and kind of forgot about arguments tend to arise for some reason.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> I'm sorry, maybe this is too simplistic for me, but if sex is a "chore" or you aren't that into your husband, why even be with your husband?
> 
> If I wasn't sexually attracted to my wife and her to me and sex stopped I'd have a HARD time sticking around.
> 
> ...


I'm with him because I love him. Also there are children in the picture and we both agreed that we'd do anything to avoid divorce. That's not to say that I haven't thought about leaving, or that he hasn't. We've had many long discussions about why, exactly, we are together. I left for an entire summer, about 4 years ago... but I saw the pain it caused our children and I came back. We've come to the conclusion that what we have is better than the alternative.

The best times in our marriage have, like with you, been when we've been having a lot of sex. We feel closer to each other & just happier all around. I want that! I don't _understand_ why it's so hard for me to want to have sex with him. I WANT to understand why & I am angry at myself because I can't figure it out.. 
It's most probably a combination of lots of things.. the infidelity, the arguments over the kids, everything that's been left unresolved... I can't shut all that down and be so vulnerable to him.. at least I can't WANT to be so vulnerable. 

Yeah, I know sex is important to a marriage, which is why I am going to go ahead and have sex with him regularly even when I don't want to. Because my marriage is worth it.


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## 20yrs (Sep 18, 2009)

lorithehun said:


> While I know that he has needs and, as his wife, I should meet them... well, what about me? (I know, I sound like a pouting child...) I'm sure that in time, with regularity, I'll stop feeling like such a hooker... So I'll keep it up... anyway, the votes are in, not one person here so far has said "Nah, don't do it unless you wanna.."... dammit...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> lol - I hope he soon realizes what a great wife he has.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

20yrs said:


> lorithehun said:
> 
> 
> > While I know that he has needs and, as his wife, I should meet them... well, what about me? (I know, I sound like a pouting child...) I'm sure that in time, with regularity, I'll stop feeling like such a hooker... So I'll keep it up... anyway, the votes are in, not one person here so far has said "Nah, don't do it unless you wanna.."... dammit...
> ...


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

If you plan on staying together, then sex has to be a part of the equation. For now, its probably good you have decided to do it regardless of your wants, there are probably things he's doing that he doesn't want to do as well.

In the act don't let him know you don't want it though, it will absolutely deflate him to think you are just "humoring" him.

I'm not trying to say all of this is "easy", you have been through a lot, I'm just saying that if you choose to stay in the marriage then sex has to be part of it or it will fall apart.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> If you plan on staying together, then sex has to be a part of the equation. For now, its probably good you have decided to do it regardless of your wants, there are probably things he's doing that he doesn't want to do as well.
> 
> In the act don't let him know you don't want it though, it will absolutely deflate him to think you are just "humoring" him.
> 
> I'm not trying to say all of this is "easy", you have been through a lot, I'm just saying that if you choose to stay in the marriage then sex has to be part of it or it will fall apart.


Yeah, he does lots for me & the kids. I'm sure he'd rather not get out of bed and bust his butt at work all day but he does it anyway...it all evens out I suppose. 

I did consider letting him know that I'm trying to work through my own sexual dysfunction (low sex drive) and having sex regularly, even when I don't really feel like it... He may grow suspicious when we go from twice a month to every other day.. I certainly don't want to make him feel like I'm humoring him, so if it turns out that I have to explain the increase in frequency I'll play up the fact that it's MY problem and thank him for helping me to fix it.


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

Lori, sounds like you got a good plan and I hope it works out for you! Would be interesting to hear after a couple of weeks if this makes your relationship better. Good luck!


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

lorithehun said:


> When a woman isn't ready for sex there can be physical problems... it's sometimes painful when a woman isn't "into" it.. There have been a few times when I was SO not into it that it wouldn't work, I couldn't relax enough for penetration to happen. That's rare, mostly lubrication takes care of that..
> 
> Still, CAN you imagine regularly having sex when you didn't want to? Wouldn't it make you feel just a little bit like a piece of meat? A little bit used? Maybe you can't understand it... I think sex is more of an emotional event for women than it is for men. Ya know I'd GLADLY, happily, grab a shovel and dig a ditch beside my husband for an hour each night if he asked me to. I'd be more than happy to help him with ANY sort of physical activity on a daily basis. But sex isn't just a physical activity.. I can't explain it any better than that. It really isn't because Imma ***** who is punishing my husband by withholding.. it's almost as if I am not being true to myself when I have sex SOLELY for someone else's sake.


I guess as a man I don't understand this. You say you'd grab a shovel and dig a ditch every night but having sex if you aren't horny is just too much. So what happens if a women loses her libido altogether and decides one day she never wants sex again. Sorry hubby, I guess you're screwed (not literally though) for the rest of your life? 

I'm looking at it from the perspective that I do a lot of crap my wife wants me to do on a very regular basis. I spend many hours a week doing things I would not do in a million years except it makes my wife happy so I do it and do it with a smile on my face. Even though there are things I do that I don't directly get any pleasure from it does actually make me very happy to know that I'm doing something that makes her happy. Does that make sense? Because I guess I don't understand why if a wife loves her husband why wouldn't she want to make her husband happy. Why aren't good feelings derived from making him sexually happy?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

nah, dont give it to him. its too much of a chore for you and he wont like it. let him go get it somewhere else and then you will both be happy, that is if you dont mind him getting it soemwhere else. i cant imagine you would cause you dont want it, right?

i would guess my wife would label me a grouch too. i am not to the kids though. but i am a grouch because she quit meeting my needs. we have regular sex occasionally but it dries up for long periods too. i am not sure what changes and she doesnt know either.

dont hold him hostage.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

mike1 said:


> I guess as a man I don't understand this. You say you'd grab a shovel and dig a ditch every night but having sex if you aren't horny is just too much. So what happens if a women loses her libido altogether and decides one day she never wants sex again. Sorry hubby, I guess you're screwed (not literally though) for the rest of your life?
> 
> I'm looking at it from the perspective that I do a lot of crap my wife wants me to do on a very regular basis. I spend many hours a week doing things I would not do in a million years except it makes my wife happy so I do it and do it with a smile on my face. Even though there are things I do that I don't directly get any pleasure from it does actually make me very happy to know that I'm doing something that makes her happy. Does that make sense? Because I guess I don't understand why if a wife loves her husband why wouldn't she want to make her husband happy. Why aren't good feelings derived from making him sexually happy?


Good question.. and really, it's so hard to make a diagnosis or explain a situation in a few paragraphs. There is such a big, huge 10 year-long picture that I can't draw here. Through reading this board the past few days and a lot of reflection I think I can narrow it down to the two biggest reasons why I find this such an arduous "chore".

FIRST: you view and experience sex differently than I do. For me it is an emotional event, not just physical, in which I must become vulnerable and let down my guard. The first few times we had sex after my husband's affair I cried. I felt too exposed... too damn vulnerable, and I just can't explain it any better than that. I don't think a man has the capacity to understand that. Not sure, but it doesn't seem that way, considering the responses I've gotten here. It is different from digging a ditch in that I don't have to let down my guard or be vulnerable and naked to dig a ditch.

SECOND: I am still angry at him. Reading the 'infidelity' forum has made me realize that even though a lot of time has passed I still am harboring a lot of anger and hurt over being so completely and thoroughly betrayed. 

I am still having sex with him.. and I am still keeping his house clean and being the best mother I can.. I am still washing his clothes and cooking his meals. You point out that you do many things for your wife, and you do them with a smile on your face... so do I. .. I do a LOT of things, and have trouble with only ONE thing. I am not out to make this man miserable and complaining over chores. This is not a chore.. in some ways this is a deception (pretending I want to have sex).


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I get the vulnerability thing. When I was too thin - I was anxious about having sex - it made me feel bad that she was seeing me and not liking what she saw/touched. 

It took some of the joy out of it. 







lorithehun said:


> Good question.. and really, it's so hard to make a diagnosis or explain a situation in a few paragraphs. There is such a big, huge 10 year-long picture that I can't draw here. Through reading this board the past few days and a lot of reflection I think I can narrow it down to the two biggest reasons why I find this such an arduous "chore".
> 
> FIRST: you view and experience sex differently than I do. For me it is an emotional event, not just physical, in which I must become vulnerable and let down my guard. The first few times we had sex after my husband's affair I cried. I felt too exposed... too damn vulnerable, and I just can't explain it any better than that. I don't think a man has the capacity to understand that. Not sure, but it doesn't seem that way, considering the responses I've gotten here. It is different from digging a ditch in that I don't have to let down my guard or be vulnerable and naked to dig a ditch.
> 
> ...


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

lori: Trust me, for men sex is a emotional act as well. If it were just physical I could just jack off and care less if the wife is there.

Sex is needed for men to feel emotionally connected to their spouse.

An emotional connection is needed for women to have sex with their spouse.

See the subtle difference there? One is the egg before the chicken, the other is the chicken before the egg.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> nah, dont give it to him. its too much of a chore for you and he wont like it. let him go get it somewhere else and then you will both be happy, that is if you dont mind him getting it soemwhere else. i cant imagine you would cause you dont want it, right?
> 
> i would guess my wife would label me a grouch too. i am not to the kids though. but i am a grouch because she quit meeting my needs. we have regular sex occasionally but it dries up for long periods too. i am not sure what changes and she doesnt know either.
> 
> ...


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> lori: Trust me, for men sex is a emotional act as well. If it were just physical I could just jack off and care less if the wife is there.
> 
> Sex is needed for men to feel emotionally connected to their spouse.
> 
> ...


You're right.. I've gotta wash my face and put on a smile before my husband gets home. But you're right, and I get it.


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

I have to totally agree with Atholk... on his first post.. 
Well said.. exactly my thoughts..


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Once you get into the routine with the every other day and your husband is on board...why not take it to the next level and revisit the orgasm thing? 

Ask him if he would go a night w/o sex....and instead give you a full massage....get you all relaxed and hopefully in the mood for a more sensual massage towards the end....and bring out a toy if needed....

would you feel 'yuck' in this vulnerable position right now or could you see yourself getting into it?

If you could go there, it would take that pressure off of you to 'finish quick' cuz once YOU finish, you are done for the night.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LTH,
You deserve the joy of a successful connection with your loving man. And he needs to show a genuine desire to work with you until he knows how to help you get there. 




swedish said:


> Once you get into the routine with the every other day and your husband is on board...why not take it to the next level and revisit the orgasm thing?
> 
> Ask him if he would go a night w/o sex....and instead give you a full massage....get you all relaxed and hopefully in the mood for a more sensual massage towards the end....and bring out a toy if needed....
> 
> ...


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