# How do they know?



## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Ok, so recently me and my husband eloped. We decided not to tell because of the circumstances of our marriage. We're both 19, we have several children together and we live in the lower half of the house (it's like an apartment), where there is a living room, bathroom, washing room, two bedrooms, and a kitchen area. We pay rent to my grandmother and didn't tell her we got married because she said if we got married this meant things would change in terms of us being allowed to live where we are, and at this point we can't afford to be anywhere else, plus it's really nice for the amount of rent we have to pay for it.

I wanted to marry him because I love him and he's my childhood sweetheart, and I don't know it was a spur of the moment one time thing I guess... (So I hope no one criticizes me for it)

I haven't taken his last name, he hasn't taken mine. In fact we plan on going through a whole new name change process etc. to have a new family name for both of us.

The thing is we don't want our families to know yet, and we are on different insurance policies. My question is, because we got married will the insurance policies know automatically and change because of that? Or will they only know if we deliberately tell them? And will anybody like big companies like Social Security and all that automatically know or can we keep it a secret and not have it affect anything until we get to a point where we want to share etc? Same thing with taxes as a married couple now do we have to file jointly or can we still file separately and do we have to say that we're married and if we say that we're married will it affect our separate insurance, etc. or anything?

Basically here's the situation I am still on my father's insurance but it's only valid as long as I go to college which I am. Will this affect me whatsoever?


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Well, technically you're not a "dependent" of your Dad's anymore, getting married relieves you of that, therefor your father can get in trouble for having ins on you...

As far as work ins and what not goes doesn't matter...I took out ins w/the co I work for and just put my daughter and I on it when my ex and I separated...both of us were still on his fam ins plan but I just took it out because we were headed for divorce and I had just got hired and just went ahead and got it taken care of. So that's no big deal lots of couples carry ins through their own perspective employers or both carry each other depending on medical history and the amount of coverage they need.

Taxes...hmmm well that's a whole different sitch. You can file married but separate...depending on the situation...me personally I wouldn't try and be the goverment at it's own system. 

Your fine with SSN as long as you're still carrying your maiden name.

Personally I think 19 is a bit young to get married but I have seen it work so no criticism here...to each their own.

My question is what's the big deal? Aside from your grandma saying you must pay more? She obviously doesn't have an issue w/the cohabitation, sex (children) before marriage situation...so why hide it from her? Sounds like she's cutting you two quite the deal...if I were you I'd sit down and talk w/her honestly and see if you can work out a compromise on the rent situation...I imagine that'd go over a lot better than lying to her for said amount of extended time period....


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

You can file taxes separately. As for the rest...remember a marriage IS a matter of public record. Eventually, all concerned will find out. 

I don't know what the insurance companies will do, but if they need to make a payout and then find you are/were ineligible, they will want their money back! 

What's your grandmother's issue? Several kids? What is several? Why wasn't a condom used?


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Meh. Believe me when I tell you that my grandmother has a logical reason for letting us stay (which is only for a year to begin with), she practically saved my life, and the fact that she let the man who has been emotionally supportive of me through all the hell I endured means the world to me. I wanted to marry him because despite every ****ty thing that has happened to me, despite the situation with the kids he has been there for me. 

There is a lot that I haven't said, and I don't feel like I want to/can talk about it. I'm not sure that I should. And even saying a little becomes too much. Heck already I feel like I have to explain what's happened but I don't want to.

Maybe we shouldn't have gotten secretly married. I just felt like after all that we've been through, after all that he's stood by me for. That it meant something symbolically about our willingness to continue to commit and I don't know. I thought that if we got married it would bond us by more than just our word and show how well we can work as a team and...it just happened.

The situation being to where it is right now is much deeper than the surface. I guess my main concern was the insurance being canceled.

My 2nd concern is will the insurance tell them I'm married or just cancel it automatically? (without explaining why they've cancelled it?). Heck! I gotta figure out how I'm going to sit down and tell my grandmother all of whats really going on.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Xiasulin, if you two are committed to each other, the paper will not make it stronger. 

It will confer certain legal rights to each of you, though. 

And if you are not committed to each other, the paper won't make it stronger, either. 

If you married him as a "reward"...well... But is good to have a dear friend that will stand up for you. That's a good start for any relationship.

As for posting information, unless everyone you know read these forums, this is as anonymous as you will find. And without information, any advice/suggestions will never be complete.

You can't have vast results with half-vast preparations.  (say it out loud)


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## Dark Angel (Jun 17, 2009)

I dont think the insurance company would find out unless you file a claim and they decide to do some updating of their records.

Why keep it a secret though? The two of you need to live your lives *now* not later. It cant be dictated by others. That can ultimately lead to your downfall.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Rhea said:


> My question is what's the big deal? Aside from your grandma saying you must pay more? She obviously doesn't have an issue w/the cohabitation, sex (children) before marriage situation...so why hide it from her? Sounds like she's cutting you two quite the deal...if I were you I'd sit down and talk w/her honestly and see if you can work out a compromise on the rent situation...I imagine that'd go over a lot better than lying to her for said amount of extended time period....


Hmmm, well over the phone she told me that she wants us to wait a year to get married because (and I wish she had told us this when we had told her we were going to get married before telling us that she just didn't want us to do it yet) as she said about an hour ago over the phone, that the insurance would drop me and right now I don't really have any/much money, etc. I was kinda bummed that she waited till after that fact to explain further why, but now my main concern I guess is her finding out. Or...how to sit down with her.

I agree sitting down and just being honest might work but I just have this overwhelming anxiety that she'll kick us out. And that brings tears because I have no idea where we'd go. I can't go back to my father's I can't. (He is also aware that we got married so it might be easier if I asked him not to tell my grandmother if the insurance did drop us). But talking to him isn't the easiest thing to do :-/. 

I don't want to lie I just...It scares me to death thinking about where we'd go. But you're right she's just done so much for me, and I feel crappy for lying to begin with, but I feel so backed into a corner. And scared ****less, she'd have a much easier time knowing that the insurance dropped me because I didn't enroll into college fast enough than to know it was because we got married before we were financially all stable.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

dcrim said:


> Xiasulin, if you two are committed to each other, the paper will not make it stronger.
> 
> It will confer certain legal rights to each of you, though.
> 
> ...


 We were actually very anti marriage. Our theory was paper burns love is forever. I don't want any benefits, I just wanted the questions to stop. People still ask so many questions because I am only 19. And I don't know how to sit down and explain the family situation about what happened.

It's not that I know these will be read, my family knows what happened. It's a very open secret within the family (by open secret I mean it's one of those things ex. where everyone knows or the major people know you're throwing a surprise party for that special cousin but nobody talks about it and everyone pretends that they don't know). It's that I just don't know if talking about it here is a good thing. How people would take it because it's just...too much maybe? It's not a story I like to run around shouting to the universe. And its not one that I can tell without feeling like I want to vomit myself.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Dark Angel said:


> I dont think the insurance company would find out unless you file a claim and they decide to do some updating of their records.
> 
> Why keep it a secret though? The two of you need to live your lives *now* not later. It cant be dictated by others. That can ultimately lead to your downfall.


You are so right. Man, you are so right. We shouldn't have to keep it a secret. I just...I think I'll keep it on the low until she finds out and then...deal with that when it comes? I'm just biting my nails on this so much.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Dark Angel said:


> I dont think the insurance company would find out unless you file a claim and they decide to do some updating of their records.


Hey I didn't see that before. That actually makes me feel a little less scared. Maybe I can breathe a little!


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Xiasulin, we don't want to force you to tell anything with which you are not comfortable. We only asked because you have left out so much and we were unaware of your reticence.

I'm only saying that responses can only be based on what you do post. We're not asking for family secrets, just trying to get the whole picture. 

Again, what questions are being asked since you're 19? And how does being married stop them? 

I think you're worrying too much. When faced with a fait accompli, most people just accept it.

Why would your grandmother kick you out? You didn't hurt her, you simply made a choice for your own life. She's still your family and unless she's a (word that rhymes with witch) I wouldn't think she would do that (or that you'd even be there in the first place). I think you're worrying too much.

As for your story being "too much, maybe" ... read a lot of the posts here. Life happens. It's neither good or bad. How we respond to it can be, however.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

2 of the 3 are not my husband's biological children. We've only conceived 1 child together and that was a beautiful thing for me. Bleh. My father molested/raped me from the age of 5 to 16. I remember when I had my first period I was 12 it was only a year or 2 before that the school nurse had came to the class giving us sex education, talking about reproduction. I think that was the first real time that I realized what was happening could lead to a baby but he said that those kind of things don't happen between family because it's against nature and that something that wrong and against nature God wouldn't let happen. Maybe I was stupid for not speaking up and for believing him. I wanted to believe it. I understand it was wrong and there are no excuses for what I did.

I was 14 when I had my first child by him. My husband today was with me through all of that. I don't think it was until I was pregnant that I told him what was happening. I remember there was a lot of anger, and he threatened to kill my father. But the system...it's always ready to screw you over. It had ****ed me over so many times before, there's just no winning. And I didn't want my husband to go to prison, and...what would people think of the girl who was sleeping with her father?

All I could remember during that pregnancy was crying despite such a beautiful life growing inside of me. My father had told me that for something so wrong God would never let happen, and then it happened. I don't think it was until the end that I started to really 'think' about the life inside me. I was scared ****less. She was 2 months premature and I kept thinking I was going to give birth to a hideous monster. But then I held her in my arms for the first time, she had that scrunched up look like 'wtf' on her face, but at the same time she was so so beautiful. And I kept thinking how can something this beautiful come from all of this? That fuzzy feeling faded away later but at the time I didn't want people to know that it was my dad's kid. All I could think of was all the jokes people would say not only towards me but to my daughter. All the thoughts they would have. So in the end me and my husband decided to put his name on the certificate.

I thought that having this baby meant that it would stop. That now he knew that it didn't matter if something was wrong or right, nature works the way it works without discrepancies. But it didn't stop. And then barely 2 months later I got pregnant again (bleh) at this point I realized that I really needed to get out of this or I was going to kill myself. I had come close to it several times, and one of my only tickets out was my grandmother. It took a lot and ultimately I needed my dad's permission to let me go, let's just say it didn't take much to convince him to let me go with my grandmother, it did however take a lot of explaining for my grandmother. (Anyway)

Again when my next child was born I put my husband's name on the birth certificate with his permission. I then left to live with my grandmother. In the beginning she wouldn't allow him to come with me and he had some issues going on, on his own line. So it ended up being that I moved on my own with the kids, and then he would visit on certain holidays and summers. It was very hard because our relationship then consisted mainly on visits, online, and phone.

I'm not a real sexual person (I feel so stupid having typed all this right now), fortunately my husband isn't that sexual...he (was)/is turned off by what happened. Which at first was hard because I felt kind of deficient...broken. But then it hurt him a lot to know what happened, he felt like he should have done something.

So the first time that me and him got to a point where we could have real sex. I didn't think to use a condom, we were starting off slow. We started off with sensual massages, and hugging it was so gradual, the next thing I know we're having sex. Real sex, like love sex, not molestation, not rape but the kind of stuff I thought didn't exist.

This led to that and then I was pregnant again. (This did not go down very well with my grandmother at the time). I had no idea how to tell her, I ended up telling the counselor at school who said she would have to tell her because by law she was obligated to. I asked for a time slot to get up the courage to tell her. I was scared that she'd kick me out then too because it had been a discussion earlier and well, the first day I tried, I couldn't do it. I ran out of the designated time and she called my grandmother. It really did not go well at first, I got a lot of **** before it relaxed and eh. anyway.

In my last year of highschool (a few months ago) I told my grandmother I was going to leave with my husband anyway job or not and that we'd figure a way to make ends meet. At this point things were happening at home for him and I had had enough and just wanted to be with him. (I know it was really stupid thinking but I was in so much love and there was just so much **** happening with his folks). At the time I hadn't finished highschool, I had been in the system for about 5 years-- I was so fed up with it, I was ready to drop out because it just felt all too much. And I was real fortunate to have really supportive school staff who worked so hard to help me get through. They were all saying I had made it so far and it would be stupid to drop out now but I guess I just didn't care.

But I made it. A few months before I graduated we, talked about a living arrangement plan for my husband, and well now we live together.

What kind of questions were people asking me? Some were the same questions you asked me. It's really difficult to meet new people (in person) at 19 and have to say, yes those are my kids. Yes I have 3. Yes he is the father. Yes I am aware of birth control. No I'm not one of those religious zealots. Yes I know we're young. No I don't have sex all the time. Yes I did finish highschool. Yes this is a serious relationship. Yes I had a child before I was married. No I'm not a ****. Yes they are the same father.

I had one girl ask me which culture I was from that I would have kids and get married so young. It doesn't seem like much but it was a lot for me. A lot of the time people ask questions that I just don't know how to answer. Why didn't your parents put you on birth control?...I don't know. Why didn't you take precautions?...I don't know....why didn't you have an abortion? (I really don't know.) Some person made me angry once when they said, if I were your parents I would have made you have an abortion or forced you to adopt. (this person didn't know my history and frankly they didn't need to, the statement was uncalled for). As to the question that goes along with that, I don't know. Why didn't you adopt? Why didn't your parents make you adopt? Blah blah blah. I don't know.

Sometimes I think it's obnoxious when I'm asked do you know what a condom is? Are they all the same Father? Are you going to have anymore? (This question generally is part of the presumed notion that I don't believe in birth control and will become one of those people who have 11-14 kids because of religious reasonings). A lot of the questions are usually directed towards my 'vagina/morality'. But the fact that we're not married really just adds to the shame, which in this day and age you'd think wouldn't exist but it does.

People thought we were a joke, and yes I know whats it matter what people think? But a.) I wanted friends, I wanted a life. That was never going to happen, I gave up on that dream. But I thought if I got married people (acquaintances) would just leave it. We would be a serious committed couple in their eyes, and I wouldn't even have to think of debating on giving them the whole history or not. That opened the door to more questions as I learned but at least...at least...I don't know in my head I kept thinking at least people will see us as real.

Maybe it was stupid reasoning. We argue here and there. We have really intense arguments. Usually it's frustration but we always talk it through. We always work because we are willing to get through this, as a team we have so much potential and well we did it. And yes I have 3 kids, yes he is the father to us. No I don't want anyone's pity. No I shouldn't have told it. And now I'm afraid to post.... T_T.

Maybe my grandmother wouldn't kick me out if she knew. I just know I'd be insuranceless! Maybe I overreacted, and maybe...well I know I've made a lot of really idiotic mistakes. But, I'm shaking and crying right now so I don't know. I'm sorry I told it.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Whew! That was a read! It's going to take some time to process.  But thank you for posting. 

First of all, it's not your fault! You seem to be doing well with the cards life has dealt you. 

As far as mistakes go -- we all make them; that's one of the ways we learn. But I don't see anything in your post that shows a mistake. 

Being without insurance isn't the end of the world. 

There are social services that are intended to help. Look into those; call your city, county, or state offices and ask what is available to you.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

About your insurance and taxes.... be very careful, you could easily slip over the line and end up in trouble with INSURANCE FRAUD and TAX FRAUD issues, both of which as serious crimes. Be careful who uses you as a tax write off...
I don't think its a good idea to keep your marriage a secret due to the potential of this happening.

As far as your being 19, already having a few kids and getting married. I only feel sorry for you as in most cases that is the recipe for a life of poverty. Some birth control would be a good idea.

At 19, about your insurance.... I dont think anyone but your husband can keep you insured medically after 19
unless your a full time student. 
You knew your grandmother would kick you out and you still got married.... don't know why you'd do such a thing but since you did, time to grow up and get your own insurance now as well as your own place.
Your husband and you should be sure to find jobs to cover YOUR KIDS with insurance and that should be your main goal right now.

I suggest paternity tests on your kids and if your father is your kids father, have your dad pay child support on them... and provide medical insurance as that what he will be responsible for if they are proved to be his.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Whew honey I think you need some counseling...wow two kids by your own Father? I don't know how a man can do this to his own daughter...I'm so sad and so sorry that the man that should protect you was violating you...that's no joke whatsoever. Please don't feel afraid to post. You've been through a lot. My thoughts and prayers are with you...just becareful w/the married and ins/tax thing.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Dcrim*: I try* not to dwell on the cards that were dealt, somedays it gets the best of me, sometimes it gets the best of us (me and my husband). But overall what can you do? I've laid in bed asking myself what can I do about it? What's done is done. Nothing left to do but to live with it, which is the outlook I began to have with this insurance thing last night.

Reading your post this morning...I really expected to get a plethora of ****/slapdowns for posting. I was so nervous to even check here. My firefox crashed and when I opened all the tabs came up again, and there were more posts that weren't angry with me.

I was really glad I read what you wrote here: "Being without insurance isn't the end of the world."

The administrator at my school told me the same thing just not in relation to insurance. I would freak out a lot over the tiniest thing, and she would say, listen to me it's not the end of the world. People get through this. So hearing it again made me relax.

It's not the end of the world, there are worse things than not having insurance, and the worse that will happen, is if she knows she just won't help me with my insurance and be a bit disappointed that I lied. I have been researching into health insurance a little bit, it's a bit new to wrap my head around. But my grandmother told me the other day if it did get canceled that there were free health care services. (All I really care about is my teeth though lol, I know I'm so shallow. I can have TB or whatever and all I'll care about is if my teeth are clean.)

*Preso*: Well the thing is my grandmother didn't necessarily say she'd kick me out. I tend to think the worst will happen. She didn't name a consequence for if we got married just said she thought we shouldn't get married. She said things would change if we did get married but she never said how.

I think of myself as pretty grown up though Preso. I may not have all my stuff together, but I'm on my way. I don't have health coverage, nor do I have a 'real' job. But I was offered to tutor students in English, and I am going to college starting in the fall. And they said that they have programs that could help me with more sufficient jobs that are part of my degree program. (I don't know how that will all work yet).

As for my husband he is meeting with a lady today, and will soon be teaching music and languages (the students would come here). This however jumps into taxes and the sort since if you get paid for anything you have to tax it. So I need to do some more research. But for a while I was getting paid for other things.

I am also not poor (I'm not rich or middleclass either I just don't consider myself poor). We pay rent for the space that we live in, it's a very nice area and I know how to manage money...I'm a bit obsessed with it. I am not poor because I am really cheap, and I have learned how to make ends meet with a low income. I sorta think poor is a state of mind, it's how you live and what you make of what you have that matters.

We are working on managing a better income, but we have enough saved up to last us about 1-3 years depending on our expenses.

I haven't had 'real' sex for a very long time, and intimacy in itself is hard because of all the issues surrounding it. But I don't feel like I need birth control if we're not having sex. We have talked about it but I am a bit nervous about what it will do to my system since it's very sensitive.

I really do not want to go to court with my dad. I don't know how the child support system works. I have not talked to my father directly yet. The information I got concerning that insurance that freaked me out was the phone call from my grandmother asking if I got married or not and what that would mean for me on my father's insurance.

In a way I know I'm an adult but I just want to cry I'm just a kid, I'm new at this, I have no idea, let me get the hang of independence a little first so I can understand the system and what's going on. Just because something happens one day doesn't make you an adult the next, there is a lot I 'know' but there is a lot I have no idea about and I'm learning that as I go along.

I really don't need his money, he puts a random amount of it (usually a hundred or less) into a debit card whenever he gets a chance and has offered to pay for 'some' of my college. It's not a lot but it pays for a few needed items. He gets mad at me if I don't spend 'x' amount in 'x' amount of time but whatever.

I am horrified of going to court. My father takes care of my siblings, and my main concern is that they are taken care of. I went back a few years ago to clear my dad's name of abuse charges. He said because if they were there then he couldn't work, and if he couldn't work how would my siblings eat? I was pissed off, cried a lot, and then I went there and told them nothing happened. The guy cleared him and my father could work. I went home feeling numb. But what did it matter?

Prior to that whole situation where I cleared his name, I called DCYF a long time ago, and wtf did they do? Nothing. They gave me a case worker for several years, I was shuffled around a bit, and what happened? I ended up back with my dad. I ran away 3x's I tried to tell so many ****ing times and what did I get? A boot up the ass, a slap in the face. My own family nearly abandoned me, they criticized me so bad for it. I don't want to go through all of that again. I don't want to go to court and force him to pay what he does have, all courts have ever done is cause trouble and it's all about money. As if money will fix my problems?

I'll take a little bit of help, but I'm going to make it to the top by using my money wisely and managing what I do have. We will make it, there is no doubt in my mind that with a little heart, with a little strength we will make it.

*Rhea*: I was in counseling previously (a few years back) and when I came here I didn't want counseling, however it has been recommended to me several times recently. A few days ago I got into a serious argument with my husband that got a bit...intense. After that we both decided that counseling together would benefit us both a lot. So then it was just figuring out insurance and how to pay for that sorta thing. Otherwise we kind of just try and wing it together, for each other and for the kids.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Also (I don't know if this matters but) this is not my first time going to college. While I was in highschool I was allowed to do dual enrollment. So I did several college courses. As far as academics went I never really had a problem, it was endurance and depression that was knocking me down repeatedly. 

I guess I just feel I need to show that there is nothing wrong with my head as far as intelligence goes. Emotionally I think I'm a bit screwed, but I am fully capable of making a living not only for me, but for my kids as well. They deserve stability more than anything, and that's what I'm working towards.

Income/College (in regards to them helping getting involved in the workforce) I believe are my two tickets, and I am going to use them all the way.

See I think that you can survive the system if you know how to work it. And I don't mean welfare (I'm not for all that and will never do it). I mean in the sense of, if you know how to use your resources at hand to their advantage. If no one will hire you, then you hire you and find a way to make it work. If you want more time with your kids work at home, and find a way to make it work. Because anything can work if you put your mind to it. Make something out of nothing and earn what you're living for...that's what I'm all about.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I think you're focusing too much on the insurance issue. Just forget it for a while. Life will go on! There are (as i said) social services that can help. 

There's nothing wrong with clean teeth!


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

1. About insurance, the day you got married, is the last day you can be on your father's insurance.

However, since I'm guessing you are pretty poor, your 3 kids, and maybe even yourself, can get on free government health care (medicare/medicaid). Go to your local family services and find out. You need to do this quickly in case one of your kids get sick.

2. Taxes, you need to let your father know, because on next year's taxes he could go to jail for tax fraud if he claims you (not that he shouldn't be in jail anyway). As a full time college student on his insurance, he can claim you on his yearly tax forms as a dependant, but the day you got married he could not anymore.

3. I would be far less worried about what your grandma is going to do, insurance, etc and more worried about you and your kids' future. Take care of that and everything else will fall into place.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

You are a remarkably strong, intelligent, mature woman! It sounds as though you have a strong bond with your husband & I'm glad you are there for each other.

The services in place are intended for temporary help until you get on your feet, so you should not feel bad about getting medicare/medicaid, welfare, etc. for you and your children. You fit the bill for who this is intended...not to live off the system but to get on your feet. 

I'm not sure about community colleges, but universities do have special housing, etc. for married families...just something you may want to look into if you haven't already in case you need it.

It saddens me to hear all you have been through at such a young age and that the system has failed you. There are doctors, lawyers, accountants, counselors that will help for those not in a position to pay so do try that route if you need to.

Thanks for sharing your story, I'm sure that was not easy to do. We are all here to help one another and it's been a good place for me to hear all sorts of different advice, so I'm glad you found us


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

YOU SHOULD TAKE YOUR FATHER TO COURT FOR CHILD SUPPORT

what he did to you is just UNSPEAKABLE !
that he should have to support his kids is the very least he could do and yes, you should persue it.

Why should you bear all the responsibility of those kids? and he does nothing?
you should file on your father for child support, courts will order DNA and he will also have to supply them with insurance.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

preso said:


> YOU SHOULD TAKE YOUR FATHER TO COURT FOR CHILD SUPPORT
> 
> what he did to you is just UNSPEAKABLE !
> that he should have to support his kids is the very least he could do and yes, you should persue it.
> ...


:iagree:

My heart goes out to you and your children. The insurance and taxes are the least of your worries. RIGHT NOW MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS FOR YOUR YOUNGER SIBBLINGS!!!! They do not need to be around this man!


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Dcrim*: LoL yeah I agree there is nothing wrong with clean teeth. I've even reduced my sugar intake just to ensure that they last a really long time!

*Revitilized*: I have pretty much accepted the insurance fate. Marriage=No insurance. My husband will soon be on a new insurance at which point we are going to work on putting us 4 on it (see how that works). I guess for now like Dcrim said I think I will stop focusing so much on the insurance. Though it is definitely issue I will have to pursue more, and the lady who came here today to speak with my husband, insurance was one of his concerns and if all goes well we'll see. There's just no use worrying about it right now I guess?

My Mother (they're divorced) told me that she stopped claiming me a long time ago but she had no idea about whether my dad is or not. So I don't know thus far if he still is or not. He is aware we got married so that rule/law shouldn't be something I have to call him in on.

*MizSmith*: It's sad to know I'm not alone in this sort of situation and that there are others in a similar situation. I tried to join a support group half a year ago for victims of Incest/Rape. But emotionally it was too much, it was too much listening to the stories of others, when I felt alone I was ok with that. But to know that this sort of hell happens everywhere...For a long time I did nothing but cry. At one point I wanted to be a volunteer for RAINN and I wanted to go into emergency rescue for animals. And this past year I wanted so badly to go around educating children about rape and what to do if someone is hurting them. But my heart hurt so bad because I couldn't save them all, and depression overwhelmed me again. I guess...it's important to understand that I really do not care so much about what happened to me as much as I do about what other people are going through and how powerless I feel because I can't save the world. Sometimes I get so angry with me for being so weak. Fortunately I am starting to accept the world and build a barrier of indifference that allows me to still interact and empathisize with people but still...it is very hard.

With the insurance, the person who came here was discussing about how he (my husband) could qualify, the only problem was the amount of money we had saved up in the bank accounts. We'll work all that out later and have to figure out some more paperwork.

Thank you for understanding, because I do not plan on taking him(my father) to court for childsupport (or for any reason). I am not worried about my siblings only based on what he was using me for. When I lived with them I was the one taking care of them, and I was very aware of what was or wasn't happening, etc. When I lived there it was my younger brothers and sister, I have other siblings they just weren't in his custody to begin with. My sister's Mother eventually ended up getting full custody of her so it's just my brothers and I am really attached to them. Many of my siblings are (well were) like my children because I literally took care of them when I was there. I cooked, cleaned, got them up, ready for school, went over their homework, dried their tears, I even tore my hair with every argument they had that I was supposed to 'fix'. Hell sometimes I felt like 'their' therapist.

Me and my husband have discussed birth control on and off, and after reading through these posts I was able to further examine myself and we definitely think birth control is something we will be doing. Now it's just finding the right ones that are ok on my sensitive and don't screw too badly with my hormones. Though it might help a lot with my PMDD.

Swedish: It makes me feel better, but I think I will use that sort of help as a last resort, when everything else fails. Then I will use it for a little bit, the thing is it's kinda like drugs I think? (Bad analogy?) It's like once you start getting their money you can't help expecting it. I don't want to get used to that.

Community colleges well, I doubt they'd be able to house me either. But I do know that they have a job program that is available to anyone who registers for it.

I am very interested in the counselors/doctors who will help those unable to pay because those are very very important to me. I guess that's part of the health package, mind and wellness.

*Preso*: My kids are not an obligation to me. When you say he has a responsibility to them...he owes them nothing. He can't 'pay' for what he did through their health. I am not depending on him for anything. Those kids have their father (the man I'm married to). We share the responsibility of our children. This isn't about money to me, this isn't about benefits from the government. My kids will make due, they will do better. I will keep them safe.

To me it about their emotional stability...my emotional stability. How they came into this world means nothing to me (It was a horrible act, but from chaos arises order...). He planted the seed but he didn't help it grow. Their father is the man sitting in the other room watching the lion king with them, not the jerk who molested and raped me. I don't want him supporting my kids.

*Aug*: I think it's going to be alright.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Your going to do what you want, but I would be in court.
He would not only have to pay child support ( your father) but he would be refused any contact with the kids ... any contact with any of them ( for their safety) ...
and
if granny tried to throw you out because you let the world know what he did and is, I'd sue her too.
But thats me....
not you. You choose to go it alone with your husband all I can say is may god help you because life is hard...
and even harder when your young, broke and starting out, with young kids. Thats about as bad as it can be.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Preso*: When you're adopted your birth parents generally give up all rights to you. You are now in the care of your new parents. Your new parents by law are not to receive any sort of money from the birth parents and you are not allowed to receive money from them. The birth parents have forfeited their rights as a parent, they don't pay childcare support, they don't pay for insurance, they don't pay for anything. And depending on the kind of adoption the children either know and are aware or don't know and aren't aware. Some children don't even know they're adopted.

From what I understand just like 'marriage' is a public record, aren't court affairs too? And by taking money from this man I make it acknowledged that he is their father. Maybe you would do that to your own family...but I can't do that to mine.

I don't know if I will ever tell my girls that the man they love is not their biological father, and that their real father is their grandfather. How the hell do you tell your children that? There is so much **** that children born of this kind of stuff get, and I don't want them going around thinking that they deserve anything that happens to them because of how they were born. That they are horrible children. I can just see the conversation now. "A long time ago mommy was raped by her father, and then you were born." so many questions and things I can't answer.

I don't want them to feel like a broken family. I felt like that. I had all these half siblings we lived in different areas, some I had only met once or twice. I wanted so badly to meet and grow up with all of them but I couldn't. It was so difficult having different sets of grandparents, grandparents who cared nothing for the 'step' child and all for their biological one. X mom is coming to visit but the other one feels jealous because her mom can't. Just feeling like a 'half' alone...

Yes I guess in the end what I want has nothing to do with court and money and ****ing up my kids life. You realize that you can't just do these things without your kids being affected by it? I want to keep 1 thing from them and that's this. They will grow up whole, not half, their grandparents the same. Maybe one day when they are older I will tell them about the abuse, but you really have to understand and if you can't just leave be that I am not going to let money ruin my kids lives and ideals.

We are fine right now. We have a beautiful living area. We have food, we have clothes. We're a bit old fashioned (lol) really really old fashioned, but we have those things. (By old fashioned I mean how I replace disposable items). We have income coming soon, and we know how to save. I happen to have someone giving me 1 year to get my crap together, before I move out. And I am taking that to my full advantage, not many people have that. We have enough money to last on our own for a few years depending on how much we are spending, and believe me...I know how to make a penny last.

As for my grandmother. She wasn't trying to throw me out because of letting anyone know what my father did. I was afraid she'd throw me out because of the health insurance situation, but that was irrational thinking on my part. If it weren't for that woman I'd still be trapped with him, I'd be in worse off condition. I can't imagine what would have happened to me had I stayed there. I am very grateful for what I have and know what it could still be and that woman is to thank for it. She is to thank for the chance we have.

I know life is hard. We aren't living impoverished. We have a ladder, a helping hand, that we are climbing and using. I came here with the question of health insurance, to me health insurance is the only important thing to me that involves money. Right now I don't need the government's hand robbing other people to give to me. Right now we have enough saved up, and we have enough time to figure out what we're doing next. Where we're at is not as bad as it can be Pres. I know how bad it can be, and trust me this isn't it.

You sound so angry Preso. Not just with this situation, but in general. I am a very angry person too. I try so hard not to be, but the way life is built makes me mad sometimes. So mad I want to scream, but what can we do? Preso in the end there is not much we can do and money is not the answer.

I know it's silly but I really love Mr.Rogers, and one day I'd like to buy his TV programs, but in the meanwhile I saw a book that I passed by and will get that had all his quotes ever. And there is a song by Mr. Rogers that when I first heard him say it made me cry, and want to take all that mad I was holding and put it somewhere.

I read to them a lot vs. tv because we don't have cable (I turned it down when it was offered) and there's a lot of crap on it anyway. And I always tell the kids to pick the books they want me to read. Well I think kids (and a lot of grown ups lol) will start an argument anywhere because when I asked which one to read first, the two oldest started to argue, and that got the little one started. So I said to them 'wait a minute, let's work this out' because I can't read more than one book at the same time. (I wanted to show them that we didn't always have to argue to get what we want, but we could play fair.)

So I did what any teenage mom would do and....taught them rock paper scissors shoot. Whoever won 3x's would get their book read first. Whoever came in second would get their book read next, and who ever came in last would get their book read after. WELL the youngest won and the two oldest didn't like that, they said she doesn't count because she's little, yatta yatta. Well I could have solved all this by picking my own book to read, but it just so happened that the oldest one had picked Norton hears a Who. LoL so me being the smart ass (apple) that I was said. "A persons a person no matter how small." isn't that the book you picked? She said no the one I picked is Norton Hear's a Who. I asked her if she remembered what it was about but she was getting into one of her moods, and said she couldn't remember that's why she wanted me to read it (manipulative isn't she?). I said no we would get to that when her book was next.

They went on so I said no book for either of them, and that they eached earned a go to bed early ticket. And omg the 5 year old broke out into a tantrum. I expected this of the youngest but not from her. She took the little one's book flung it, knocked the books off the shelf. So, what did I do? My husband plays the piano ^_^ so I asked him to play Mr. Rogers what do you do? And I took the two other kids into the other room and I said, I bet you two are really mad. And they were like yeahhh. And I asked them individually are you mad? To the second oldest, and then to my youngest. And they both said yeah too. And I said how mad are you? And the oldest one threw another book from the room, and I said, 'She's real mad isn't she?' and they said yeah. And I said well why. Why are you so mad? What makes you so mad? And they began shooting up answers, that seemed trivial but were really big in their minds. So I said well I'm mad too, and they said why? And I said because I wanted to read a book to you but now I can't. And I said this isn't good, and they asked why? And I said because we're all mad! And here is where my husband starts playing the Mr. Rogers song (the diddly) and he starts to sing "Well what do you do with the mad that you feel? when you feel so mad you could bite, when the whole wide world seems oh, so wrong. And nothing you do seems right?" lol I won't write it all here but you can find it online. The kids changed stop to stomp, so they started to stomp when we would get to the stop part. "I can stomp when I want to, stomp when I wish." and I was like well wait a minute after you stomp you've gotta stop! (lol)

Anyway the oldest one quieted and I came in, and I talked with her, and explained that because of what she did we would not be reading her book and if that made her angry that's ok, and that it's ok to be angry but there are ways to be angry. There are ways to say 'mommy I'm mad' without punishing yourself, because now she had to clean up that entire mess, not get her book read, and she had to go to bed early. But we sung the song altogether one more time, she cleaned her mess, got to be with us when I read the little one's book selection, and both her and her sister (not the little one the second oldest) went to bed early. Because I had said in the beginning that they both would go to bed early to begin with, with neither of their books read.

I'm not saying you're angry, just reading your posts I feel anger. And I feel anger myself sometimes, and I express it really bad sometimes. And well thinking of 'mad' made me think of that story with the kids. LoL sorry for typing all that.


*MizSmith*: That is good to know. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I will definitely look into it if I need help, but right now I think we're just beginning. I will look into it more when I feel we definitely need it.

I actually want to homeschool my kids, the two oldest can already read some books (not huge chapter books but kid books), and the youngest has already started reading signs, and recognizing a few words. I am definitely going to homeschool them and right now the way our class schedules got set up was made so that I could be home with the kids and then we could switch on other days and he could be home with the kids. Class hasn't started for us yet so we're fine at the moment.

We'll definitely be working to figure out the bank account situation, but still not the end of the world.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I am not angry, I feel sad for you.
Your going to find out, that you have to take care of yourself, nobody is going to do it for you, including your husband.
If you go to court, you can get legal counsel how to handle the "who is their father" issue.
This is not the first time its happened to anyone.
Your father should be paying child support and provide medical insurance. 
Your concerns over telling the kids can be overcome, yor ability to provide for their needs right now is in question. Kids get sick all the time, need doctors and sometimes surgery ( tonsils, etc)
You will end up not being able to start your life or the needs of the kids will be pushed aside. That you are so scared of being homeless should not be a concern........
if you were getting child support your rightfully entitled to... it wouldn't be.
All I can say is: good luck, life is hard. Your life is going to be very hard.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Preso*: There are a lot of things in life that make it hard that aren't money related. I'm a person that values emotional relationships over material possession, so for me the hardest part of my life is probably already over. 

I already told you that we're making due. Where in any of my posts did I say I was going to be *homeless*? Because if I get kicked out of my grandmother's house, that just means a resource is gone, but we already planned it out. I am allowed to be upset if it did happen that way but I would quickly get over it and move on with what I do have.

I spent several posts trying to explain that we had enough money saved up to survive even without my grandmothers help. I thought we only had enough for 1-3 years but I asked my husband and he said it was 5 plus there is a 2nd account that he forgot about, including my savings.

My kids don't need to know their grandfather is their father end of story. They'll know when the time is right that I was molested/raped as a child, but who their biological father is, will not be part of that story. It's not relevant enough. My father doesn't have any money to begin with so what am I going to do take every penny that he doesn't have? Wait for air to come. 

It seems to me that no matter what I write you have one solution in mind. One idea of me in mind. And hope that if you say it enough times I'll get the picture. 

While I appreciate your attempt to give me advice, I've already considered it and decided that I will not have anything to do with my childrens biological father since that is all he is their 'biological' father. He has no rights or obligations to them. 

My husband is the one who has clearly been the father to my children, the one who has been that for them since before they were even born, and chose to take that role. He doesn't support them, we support each other. Not only does he love them, they love him, and that's the way it should be.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Health insurance and rent is money related, sorry to tell you.
Heres what I'd do if I were you.

I'd tell your father to give you money for child support for his kids. If he refused, I'd take it to court and press charges on him to enforce the child support and let the DA decide if the state should persue criminal charges on him.
I bet they do........
and he will be in jail. Then, I'm thinking you can collect social security on them. This is what you should be talking to a lawyer about, go to legal aide if you have no money.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not desperate enough yet. Or even close to feeling that way. We are working the health insurance thing out now, we're working on medicade right now. Like I said someone came by yesterday and that was part of the discussion, so health insurance will not be an issue for too long.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

It's sad that burden to care for your children will become the taxpayers burden, while a pedofile roams free.

Very sad.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

You know what really makes me mad/sad Preso? Is that regular people who can work and have no issues with working can get on SSI and Medicade purely because they can't see, are legally blind, have trouble hearing in one ear, or whatever. Who could be over 65 but can work like there is no tomorrow, and get to take your money and still work a job with a regular income, like the rest of us. That there are people who are in situations similar to ours and that just because of a random thing like a disability that doesn't keep you from working, get a ticket for money.



> Effective November 1, 2008, a disabled and/or blind individual may be able to go to work or increase their hours of work and still receive Medicaid through the Health Coverage for Workers with Disabilities Act. "


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

For the record we are both opposed to SSI, the only thing we're looking at right now is health insurance. And for another record yes we both qualify for medicaid. I'm not a charity case, we're taking what we need and that is it. We don't need very much of anything. So please stop looking at it as a personal vendetta. Now that I think about it this issue with my father is more like your issue because you think that because of him, you have to pay for it, since I'll assume that you include yourself in that list of taxpayers.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Preso, XiaSulin has paid far more a price for what her father has done than any of us ever will and hearing her rationale behind how she plans to deal with this going forward clearly shows her intentions are to protect and keep her family safe.

XiaSulin ~ I loved your Mr. Rogers story...he was my favorite as a kid (had to watch by myself as my brothers/sisters did not agree!) The house I grew up in was fairly chaotic and Mr. Rogers brought some order and was somehow calming.

I did not have cable either until my kids were older and I needed internet for work so it came with the package, so they grew up with PBS kids shows but once we did get cable it was hard to pull them away from the t.v.

If your father is not financially supporting you (at least 50% I believe), he should not be claiming you. Once you do start working, claiming yourself & your kids will help you retain the most $ possible from your paychecks as far as taxes go.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Swedish*: Oh! I love Mr. Rogers too! My favourite is his mad song. Esp. since sometimes I get so angry with life and truthfully I can't blame anyone for it. I can't even blame the victimizers or people who should have done something. But I have to direct it all sometimes. Otherwise I'm not very fun to be around. I want to teach my kids early in life how to handle their anger, how to direct and release it in a healthy way. Something I had to learn a bit later. Sometimes what I show them comes back at me. Like when one of them came to me while I was crying and said 'Mommy you can stomp if you want to.' I can't remember what I was crying about but it made me chuckle.

We watch preselected movies, that I designate as movies that have values. When they get a bit older I will let them choose their own, but for now. Like the movie Up, it was a beautiful movie we watched it together. I feel like a hypocrite because growing up I was watching whatever I wanted, eating whatever I wanted. And here I am screening what they watch until I think they're mature enough to handle other stuff. And at the same time I don't want to shelter them to the point of not knowing who winnie the pooh is (like my husband had never heard of him etc.). And at the same time unless they've got a lesson to teach I don't really see why my kids should watch it.

I hope we never get cable! Ahaha. And as for the internet lol I've seen the crazy stuff they have on this net, it's horrible, so I don't know what to do when they reach a time that they want to come out on here. But I don't think I'll let them on for a really long time.

I really like the information you have just given me. If my dad is still claiming me regardless of the fact that he knows he's not supporting me, then I think that is his responsibility right? I don't have to worry about him? He's been an adult longer than I have so I hope he understands that? (Do most adults know this information already?)

*MizSmith*: Oh man you don't know how much it means to hear that. I was starting to feel like a thief for even considering the idea.

I'm really relieved that the pressure of telling them their biological father is off. I ended up thinking about it all day. I cried a bit to the idea, gave myself a panic attack. A lot of adoption 'how to's' deal with telling more about how you didn't grow in the mother's stomach and they sure grew in mine, and that usually accompanies that father not being biological. And I'm not too keen on even considering explaining their father as a 'stepfather' not that there's anything wrong with that, he's just not that to them. Then I came to the conclusion that I don't have to tell them about that because emotionally their father is my husband, has been since their conception. He was the one who came to the hospital, the one who helped with feeding and diapers. Ah, thinking about it is making me cry a little but the kind of nostalgic/melancholy kind of. I gotta move off that topic for a while.

We didn't have much expenses, this is why we have such high savings. Before this we didn't have rent, and we don't have to pay for food. And anytime we did have to pay for our own food we set up a monthly budget that we timesed by the year. It's easy to stay in the budget and still eat something edible if you know where to go, and if you make friends with people who own food places! (Ahaha)

Anyway we weren't like regular kids who spent their money as soon as they got candy. He started working when he was 13 after he found out I was pregnant. I don't know how he did it but one of his friends got him a job, as for me I was scraping up money from holidays and gifts and adding it to my savings account as well. Anything that was a monthly expense (I'm gonna get a bit...tmi (too much information) here) but things like diapers and menstrual pads. I actually reverted to using cloth fabric which I would cut up and fold out of fabrics...my favourite thing was using really soft thick towels. Because I really couldn't afford to do all that buying, before that decision one of my grandmothers was also helping me out with the cost but I hated feeling like a money grubber so I just did what I would do if I weren't getting help to cut prices down. It helped with my sensitive skin. And instead of buying formula I breastfed, except for my oldest I couldn't breastfeed her right away, and it was my first time so there were a lot of issues but it was that or depending on my other grandmother for baby formula forever and that just wasn't happening. It's not their job to take care of my kids. So I made sure I got it to work.


*Thoughts*: After I posted here on the forums I started to do some thinking. This conversation has made me think of a lot of things that previously I had kept out of the forefront of my mind. Emotionally and Mentally I feel like if either of us take SSI that we're stealing. I feel like that because there are so many other people in our situation but because they don't have some sort of disability they are stuck, and I feel like we're getting some 'Easy Pass'. For me and my husband we have been doing a lot of hair pulling. We are still deciding what we're going to do and how because morally I feel like a thief.

Nothing really prevents either of us from working in a 'our body works sense' he's legally blind so it gets hard getting hired but he's fully capable. There are other jobs that we decided on that he can do if others are hesitant of hiring him (esp. in the current economy). Music/Languages.

For me there is nothing wrong with my body in the sense that I can work, but I have severe ptsd which manifests in so many nasty ways. And I have CFS among other annoying things. (The two of us together we're such a pair *lol*) I want to work though, I want to work in a cafe with dishes and sandwiches and hot drinks! And I wouldn't mind caring for animals and people, esp. older people. The problem is I don't want to work outside of home for too many hours which is why I enjoy the offer to tutoring people with English more, because I can bring them here or go to them but it often doesn't take too much time.

I just don't feel like I am deficient even though I have 'these' sort of things. I think I could work just like anybody else, and that there are people worse off, and I don't feel like it's fair that they're willing to give us a helping hand while other people who have just as much a chance to succeed aren't. So morally we've been debating if and how much help we're willing to take from the government, and discussing what we're doing without them.

I contacted a therapist today because both of us need to look into cognitive therapy (1 of the good things about my mental crap is that cognitive behavioural therapy helps a lot for all over them--it overlaps). I used to want to be a therapist, but emotionally not ready for it yet.

So that was one thing that this has made me think more deeply on. Next was birth control! I am very irrational sometimes to the point of tears because I start think I'll get raped and pregnant again. And next to rape I am horrified of getting pregnant again. As joyful as it is creating a life in a world so full of overcrowding and trauma, emotionally it brings back things along with a mixture of emotions that make me truly an...insane person :-(.

Sometimes on an average day I become an entirely different person and become so paranoid, like if my husband manages to coerce me out with the kids I will keep them very close to me to the point where my husband has to take my wrist and say 'let them breathe'. He once said I was not allowed to touch them while we were out if they were walking with us, unless they came to me and initiated the contact.

Then he said that if I didn't leave the house with the kids without taking them outside for a walk at least once every other day then it would enter close to abuse and that they'd live horrible lives...as opposed to not leaving the living area at all with them and calling his cell phone every 15 minutes and asking if they were all right when they did go out without me.

After this I became obsessed with asking them once a day, are you happy. And what would they like to do today.

Today one of the little ones asked to go to the library. We added it to the big trips to have before this week is over. I admit its bad, and that's just the paranoia/anxiety aspect, I think my paranoia used to be much worse and believe that with my husband's help I've been able to relax a little in regards to letting my kids play in the backyard without me standing right there (lol) more like from the window peaking through the side so they feel like they have some independence.

But oh! Birth control, that was the second thing for me. Very important, because of my paranoia mainly more so than my worries with me and my husband getting intimate, I decided to look into that.

Insurance. This conversation really made me relax in terms of health insurance and feel more secure about what I plan to do in that area, and not feeling so upset.

It also brought up another topic. Telling my kids that I was raped and molested. Up until this point I was never going to even bring up the topic, but as I wrote here I began thinking more and more on it. I can not tell them the whole 'whose their 'bio' father' thing. But at least being open about being raped is something I'd like to tell them someday. I have been worried about how to tell them. I got so obsessed I contacted a rape crisis center (they weren't much help *rolls eyes*), and I tried how do you tell your kids they're adopted (lol) but that's usually for both parents, and well. that's something I've been stuck on. How to tell them that much. Maybe I'll tell them when they're 50. I think it'd be a burden if they were young.

There was one link on how to tell your kids they're adopted which helped me in terms of finding when they're ready to know about the rape: How to Tell an Adopted Child About Their Birth Family | eHow.com

So since what I will be telling them won't be who their biological father is, just about what happened to me, I think it'll be easier than worrying about how harmful it is to them since it has more to do with me and what I endured and not them and their making.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

XiaSulin said:


> I feel like a hypocrite because growing up I was watching whatever I wanted, eating whatever I wanted. And here I am screening what they watch until I think they're mature enough to handle other stuff.


It's called being a responsible parent & you are doing fantastic...it's much easier to cave and give kids what they want...not much effort involved in that. You are giving them the childhood you deserved to have and I'm sorry you didn't.

I am floored that you are 19 and doing all that you are.

Try not to overwhelm yourself with your thoughts. Many of these things can wait until you are ready to address them, such as talking to your kids and how much to tell them. To me, the main issue with kids not knowing their bio parents becomes important becuase of medical history, but that is a non-issue for you.

By the way, if you start working, you will need to fill out a W-4 form and it will ask how many dependents you want to declare. You could declare 4 (you and your 3 children) and that will be used by your employer to calculate how much to take out in taxes from each check. The more dependents, the less tax will be taken each pay period. I usually claim 1 less than I have so I am sure I pay enough into taxes and don't owe the gov't in the end (would rather get a little tax refund than owe)


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I think the fact the children are products of incest is of far greater concern to them over their lifetime than that they are also the product of rape. 
In incest, potenial problems can arise when there is a defect in the background of the family...... by reproducing with a relative, the chances of those defects (either physical or mental) appearing in the next generation, are increased because the defect is on both the mother and father's side.
If this proves to be the case,
This could drastically change things for the children long and short term.
I for one, can certainly understand your concerns for lack of medical insurance being the details of the situation.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Oh I want to update! So we're not on medicaid, but we figured the insurance thing out. We're in the clear right now. Everything turned out well. My husband talked to someone regarding it who cleared some stuff and we're okay with health insurance.

And there is a free clinic nearby that can do cognitive behavioural therapy with us, though it was recommended we do it separate before going in together because of our different issues that later blend into each other.

I just found that news out like---a bit ago. And wanted to post as soon as I got the chance.

*MizSmith*: Oh I definitely educate them in that matter (I'm that paranoid). I tell them if anyone touches them anywhere that makes them uncomfortable they need to tell them, and if they don't listen they need to tell me no matter what that person says they'll do to me, don't be afraid because they're bluffing and what I would do to them is far worse than what they could ever do to me. I want to learn self defense so that I can show them, so that they can kiss ass. I'd feel a lot safer letting them loose if I knew they had some defenses.

Thank you for that information. It really does help awareness before knowledge.

Ahaha when I read your paragraphs I laughed and told my husband about the backyard sentence. He started laughing too and said it's a good thing I'm legally blind, I don't see as much detail. I have relaxed a little bit, but I've got a long ways to go. For my little one it's not so bad, but for the elder two they get a bit annoyed with me if I don't give them room to walk beyond my grip .

*Swedish*: The trick to not cave'ing in, is not telling them what they're missing (lol). I also try and give them reasonable options, so they don't always feel like I am making them do anything. They're usually too busy feeling like they're making a serious decision that they don't even realize their choices have a limit.

Hey you know I was also thinking earlier. In terms of how they look, all we have to say is 'you inherited most of your mothers genes, that's why you look so much like her'.

I did not know that! (about the W-4 forms!). Do they really give all your taxes back because I heard once that the government rips tax payers off.

*
MizSmith/Swedish*: I'm 19 and actually had to look up the word floored in the dictionary (lol). I really hope I didn't floor anybody. It's just that I lost my childhood at a very young age. I mean I had enough freedom to sneak out to the park and watch the ducks when I was in the 1st grade. I had responsibilities and independence at a young age. In some cultures (I know not this one) it's something many kids are given. If I were there I wouldn't be special at all, and I don't really feel that special.

I'm really immature. I know I sound real mature but that's cause I'm typing. I'm like a little kid still, and at the same time I know what I have to do I just hate to verbalize it. I mean I'm a pain in the ass to deal with. The sound of chewing ice feels like glass in my ears. Bright lights hurt my eyes so my kids live in dim lighting. Sometimes even their talking gets me and I have to ask them to stop and speak one at a time and slowly. There are days that emotionally my kids are too much not because of how they were born but because all the baggage that comes with them. I can't just call up their parents and say look I'm not their mother take them because I am their mother, and they're stuck with me. I have a lot of good heartwarming stories to tell like that Mr. Rogers I told, but I've got a lot of horrible stories to tell too. I wasn't ready. When I had my first child I wanted to be ready, I didn't want it to happen amidst all the chaos.

I blame myself. I got pregnant by my father, not once but twice. I don't like talking about it, how do you explain to the crisis center that you got pregnant twice by your father? I bet they were thinking this kid is an idiot, why didn't she call the cops or get out of there. I don't blame them because I was stupid for letting it happen. I was really stupid. And I live with that.


There were so many opportunities when I wasn't living in that hell that I could have gotten away, but I didn't want to leave my siblings. I didn't want to abandon them, and at the time my sister still lived with us. I'm... *shrugs*

But you know to make matters worse, I got pregnant by my husband and I should have known better. I should have known, but I didn't even think. I hold myself fully accountable I do.


*Preso*: Other than ASD something that runs rampant on my 'maternal' side, there isn't really anything wrong with my kids. And it's only with my oldest. I have it but for what we have it really isn't anything serious support and understanding can't help (not getting into it right now, but its not debilitating). Anyway I am very aware of all that thanks.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

XiaSulin, I applaud you. You have been dealt a terrible, terrible youth, yet here you are....an articulate, intelligent, and honest young woman. Not everyone will agree with you, but that's ok. I completely agree with you. Were I in your situation, I would do the same regarding your children and who their REAL father is. Kudos to you.

Keep your head held high and your sights set on your future....it sure sounds like you're doing a great job!


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

I feel bad because a lot of the issues in the marriage forum I don't know how to tackle. I've been wandering around trying to get a feel. I signed up in a panic and then people were nice which was the last thing I expected since I'm really not into forums and what I do know of them involve smash and bash.

I tried to give a little but there are so many issues that are above me. Like I don't understand the concept of sex and marriage beyond what I am experiencing. I don't understand the concept of sex in the way most people know it, so it's hard to relate.

So in some ways being here has helped me to see how young I really am lol. It's kinda sad because I can't connect with regular kids my age and at the same time I feel so alien to the ordinary every adult things. I feel foreign and alienated. And even though I'm a budding adult I don't know if I will ever be able to connect with people of either age, I feel so out of place.

I feel like a kid and an old senial woman all at the same time. In truth I act like a big kid, and would like to be that, I just know that things have to get done, so there are a lot of time where just messing around is something that I can't do. Because I have always had to make things work, people have always depended on me in some way, shape, or form.

I don't respond to these fast and sometimes I don't look at them for a minute because it takes a lot of energy . It takes so much energy to write about some of these things, and yet it's helped me so much to sort it out.

I feel like crap when people make me feel bigger than what I really am. I feel so rotten when you all think I am so great at what I do. I try to be a good mom, but what mom barracades her kids into a room because she's afraid someone is going to come after them or tells her kids to hide in the closet if there is a knock on the door until she gives the word?

I am in recovery and episodes like that don't happen the way they used to. I remember breaking down after the birth of my 2nd child and temporarily being hospitilized before I left. Emotionally I am a recovering wreck. I am not great, I just omit my faults when I write. I don't want anyone to think that I am great, maybe there are some things about me that are worth nothing in positive ways, but there are negative things about me that I think are worth noting too.

I work hard to try and get my kids to understand in their own language what is going on, and to try and make sure that emotionally they're alright. I have to be sure that they're happy, that I am giving them what they need because if I am not...then they don't need me. If I don't then they need someone who can be what I can't be. And nothing hurts more than being abandoned, even if it's in your best interest. And so if I fall apart, if I abandon them and someone takes them away from me, then I am a mother without her cubs, and that has to be one of the worst feelings in the world. To know how much they would be in pain combined with mine...their well being is important to me. But really somedays I don't think I am up for it. Somedays I wake up and I don't think I can be the mother they deserve, so I ask, I will always ask. And I will always try and give what they need, and I will always try and help them understand what they don't understand, and I will always try and keep them safe from what they don't understand. And at the same time I understand that life isn't a bed of roses, it's a bed of roses with thorns.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree: with MsStacy



XiaSulin said:


> I blame myself.


I hope you will get past that at some point. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. You were dealt some extremely difficult cards and are doing a great job just trying to do the right thing. That's all any of us can do and we all have our faults.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't know of any parent that hasn't questioned themself at some point...many times along the way myself and still do (my oldest is 19!)...but we all go in loving them, wanting the best for them...not everything will go as planned or hoped but if we do the best we can and they know they are loved, they will be okay.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

XiaSulin said:


> But really somedays I don't think I am up for it. Somedays I wake up and I don't think I can be the mother they deserve, so I ask, I will always ask. And I will always try and give what they need, and I will always try and help them understand what they don't understand, and I will always try and keep them safe from what they don't understand. And at the same time I understand that life isn't a bed of roses, it's a bed of roses with thorns.


*Every* *mother* thinks that. Every single mother out there has their days when we wake up and think....I really don't think I can do it today. (And I only have one 3 1/2 year old!) You may have these days a little more often, and maybe not. You never know what is happening behind the door of your neighbor. It is hard raising kids, especially small kids, and we ALL do the best we can. That's all you can do. We all make mistakes and think...ok...I don't want to do THAT again...so we learn. We are all doing the best we can and that's all you can do to.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

XiaSulin, I think you are an amazing woman. You have certainly been dealt far more than anyone should ever have to be forced to handle, and I commend you on stepping up and handling what has been thrown your way. 
As far as being a good parent, please understand that no matter HOW much you love your children (and you so obviously do), there will be days when your patience is tried, your buttons are pushed, and you count down the minutes till bedtime. EVERY parent does, and those that say they don't...they aren't being honest with themselves or anyone else. What your kids will remember most, is not what they had or didnt have...but the way they felt with you, and with their father (your H is their father, no matter WHAT genetics say). They will remember the smiles, the giggles, silly times, little family rituals that are unique to your family...and yes, they will remember the tears when they are there, and sadness, but I believe that you can't really understand happiness unless there is a little bit of sadness to compare it to. You a sheltering them from all that you can, so that the little sadnesses they endure will be nothing more than a blip on the screen that is their life. Each day they see you grow stronger and more confident, working hard to make something of yourself...they will remember that, and respect you far more than if you had every neat new gadget and toy to give them. 
Give yourself some credit girl! The world is hard enough on us, without us being just as hard on ourselves.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Your whole situation to me, is very sad. I can only hope things work out for you as yes, you are very young and you sound like what is known as an "old soul".........
The situations of your life have made you emotionally mature, which is a good thing, the downfall is it will be hard to connect with many people ( of any age)


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Swedish/MsStacy/Mommybean*(if I marked this any other way I would be getting repeitive): Ah! It's good to know I'm not a complete failure.

I had a friend who meant the world to me once. She was one of the few people I felt I could trust back in those days. In truthI told her about what was going on before I told my husband. She told me when I was pregnant that she felt like if I went through with it I was dirty, and that she felt sorry for my kid who would probably be born screwed up anyway. She said I was disgusting for what happened. It hurt so bad having a 'friend' say that to me. I stopped talking to her which was hard. Later she kept saying she was sorry. But the damage was already done. I think any attempt to have friends have failed because I want to share things with my friends, but I can't. So there is a wall there. I have a very few handful of friends in my personal life that are aware of some bits of the story some know all. Which is okay because at least one person knows everything and that's my husband. I have learned to pick and choose what I tell to people based on past experiences with people like my ex friend.

I know those people who said they felt sorry for my children were wrong and are hung up on the social stigma of incest and teen pregnancy. To project that on me makes me want to call them blind...or maybe I am blind. They do say love is blind. Or maybe we're all blind. Because I do love my children. And if they were deformed I would still love them. Because my love is unconditional and that doesn't just apply to my children. I don't believe real love has conditions, I work so hard to be that way even though it's hard, and that's something many of those people who said I was 'wrong' for not getting rid of them don't have.

Thank you. It's good to know that every mother has ups and down days. I think the way you all described it was very great and uplifting. It gave me a bit more security on my footing and where I'm standing.

*Preso*: Reading your posts are always a relief even when we disagree. Because you don't cut me any slack. You know sometimes all I want is someone to yell at me. (No no I'm not saying you do). I want someone to shake me and tell me like they would regardless of what happened to me. Because then I don't feel like I have any excuse. You know talking with you that was the bit that helped me come to the conclusion that though I won't tell my kids about their 'biological' father I will tell them about the things that happened to me.

I don't think that if anything is genetically wrong with them that it will matter about the 'incest', because they'll still have what they have regardless and if I told them that they might get it stuck in their head that they deserve it. Plus...I've learned that people create images of themselves despite how much you tell them they're special, based on other peoples feelings toward it. Fortunately they're alright...guess that's just been on my mind/floating in my head.

A lot of people say I am an old soul. I feel like an old soul, too old sometimes. I think I've started to accept it though. I am beginning to learn that when I meet someone I have to throw away age and connect purely on how well we bond. Now I have friends in all age groups from 13 to 56. Granted I don't have many but I'd rather have a few good friends than a whole room of people that I didn't connect with.

*Thoughts*:

"I hope you will get past that at some point. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. You were dealt some extremely difficult cards and are doing a great job just trying to do the right thing. That's all any of us can do and we all have our faults."

logically I know that nothing is really anybody's fault. Life just happens. And in the groups they tell you it's not your fault. Everywhere I go they tell me it's not my fault. But it is. From the way the molestation started to the fact that it could have ended sooner. I didn't scream loud enough, I didn't fight loud enough. I look back and can see so many places where there was my way out. There was my chance. Why did it have to get to the point that it did? Why didn't they believe me before the pregnancy, when I asked for help? When I ran to the school nurse telling her I was afraid to go home?

And why did they accept 'his' story? They marked me off as a disobedient kid who was angry, a miscreant because I had outbursts, slit my wrists, and hid when I should have been in a room full of people who could care less about me. He told them I was sexually active, and that he couldn't control me. I told them I did not want to stay there. And then I was blessed with being shuffled around before being tricked back home with him, and then barely two weeks later he was at it again. I had opportunities to run away and stay away. I keep hearing this **** on tv 'chances are if he doesn't want to be found he won't be found'. Well I didn't want to be found, I was found. So I wanted to be found? I was the idiot, nothing happens to me unless I let it happen, and I let them screw me over, because I was weak.

I know people will always say that it's not my fault, but I really do feel like If I want something I let myself have it, I make myself have it. If I have a dream or a goal I can have it, there's nothing that can stop me except not doing it correctly, except for myself not finding the way. And if that's the case with a good dream what does it say about the dream I had about running away? I guess in a way I did but...too late wasn't it? Or maybe life happened to me the way it was meant to happen. I don't know. I've been wrestling with the idea of fate vs. non fate, and I like the idea of fate better...takes the responsibility and the shame off of me :-/.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I see what you are saying in that you could have done things differently, and if you were in your 20's when all this started it would make sense to me. You were merely a child, with no resources and dependent on the very person who was supposed to be protecting you and he wasn't. Yes, you could have done things differently but who's to say it would have turned out better. Running away usually turns out very bad for kids w/o any resources. In your case there were no guarantees no matter which way you turned.

Now that you are on your own, I do believe where you go from here is up to you & from what I read, you are well on your way and on the right track.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I am 50 years old and have seen a lot in my life. When I was a young girl, about 11, I saw a whole family that had sex with each other ( father and daughters, brothers and sisters)
and babies from this. many years later, what ended up happening to these babies when they grew up was some of them became very violent teenagers, sometimes beating the hell out of their mother....
and the patterns of incest were repeated.
Hope that doesn't happen to you.

If I was a child of a rape situation or incest, I would rather not know until much later in life if at all ( over 40 or 50)
unless there was some severe medical condition ( to explain to me why I had it ).. even then, I think I'd prefer not to know.
Things like that can really screw with young peoples heads.

I was on my own at a young age too and been told I'm an old soul. It only served to make me strong, which I didn't know when young, that my future would dictate I would have to be very strong as great surprises were in store for me, but I had to be strong enough to think for myself and be responsible. Maybe thats in store for your future too.
Good luck and I hope things work out.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

*Swedish*: Swedishhhh you do not know how much what you have said to me in that one pargraph has helped me so much and made me feel so much better about what happened than I have felt in a long time. And I'm in a lot of shock/surprise myself because I've spent many many years with that thinking, and the fact that a single pargraph can make me think that much is a bit....nerveracking in a good way? (maybe wrong word) astounding? (Awe'ing...mmm don't know but you know what I mean?)

Realization...It could have ended up much worse than what it was and maybe I wouldn't have been able to get my independence when I did which was between 15,16ish (sorta it was a safety kind of thing).

You're right. Who's to say it would have turned out better? Man I wish I could put into words how much that means to me. Because when I ran away I didn't have any resources. I think that's why I kept ending up back where I was.

Wow. I just can't stop wow'ing I'm sorry . It's just. I feel like a part of my heart has healed and I don't know how else to say it.


*Preso*: Welllllllll I don't have sex with my daughters and I definitely doubt I'd get impregnated by them. So that's one less thing I have to worry about.

As for the beating their mother's bit. mmm I certainly hope not. I never use physical punishment to get my point across with them because in my opinion that only persuades them to be secretive. I try and get them to realize that what they're doing has affects on other people which can in turn affect them, which gives them more motivation to do the right thing.

Overall I work really hard with trying to help them with right and wrong. And generally believe it or not I don't have a lot of issues with them. I think it's because I work really hard to relate/connect to them on their level so then they feel like I am reaching them, and that's important. If I understand how their mind works I can understand how to help guide them. And that's what I want to do, they'll make their own decisions I will guide them.

They're good kids. *laughs* but if you get me started on talking about them each I'll have an entire book because I can go on and on. I'm trying sooo hard not to go into detail of what they're each like, but I don't know what life would be like without them.

I know that it's unhealthy to keep them in the dark. But three of us have sensitivities to lighting (that is me(ASD), my husband(legally blind), and the oldest(ASD).), and the other two are just used to it. But there was a social worker who came by recently and told us about some special sunglasses that we'll be getting soon, and we do go outside. I just have been on an avoiding curb which did not make my grandmother happy so we're out to walk tomorrow.

I bet one day they'll rebel, tell me I'm overcrowding them and come home with lots of piercings and tattoos but I'm totally going to set a bad example and get a tattoo with their names on it, all three of them so that I can be like 'mom beat ya to it'. Haha! Ok I know not funny but I'm joking (just a little)...it's tempting.


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## TioMauricio (Jul 9, 2009)

preso said:


> I am 50 years old and have seen a lot in my life. When I was a young girl, about 11, I saw a whole family that had sex with each other ( father and daughters, brothers and sisters)
> and babies from this. many years later, what ended up happening to these babies when they grew up was some of them became very violent teenagers, sometimes beating the hell out of their mother....
> and the patterns of incest were repeated.
> *Hope that doesn't happen to you.*


WTF? Did you just insinuate that Xia would "repeat the cycle" with her babies?? 

Xia I'm SO sorry that happened to you!! That's an AWFUL thing your father did to you! 

I'm glad you got the insurance thing figured out cause you definitely don't need any more complications in your life!


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

TioMauricio said:


> WTF? Did you just insinuate that Xia would "repeat the cycle" with her babies??
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

Thank you Preso for your concern, I can see that you're only saying what you feel is in the best interest of us. Thank you Tio for your compassion, you are a good man, and I understand your feelings. But would it be too much to ask if we could get off the subject of the nature of my children's birth? I am very much aware that my children have a high chance of inheriting diseases that are specifically passed on within our family. 

I am very aware the horror stories surrounding cases such as mine. I know children born of incest have a high probability of picking up negative traits and temperament, recessive genes as it may. I know. I spent my first pregnancy crying. I was afraid to look at my child when she was born and cried with relief when she was all there. After my 2nd child was born, I was hospitilized shortly after for attempting suicide. And it was wrong of me, it was wrong of me to want to abandon my babies but it was all getting to me. I'm sorry, I'm sorry for that. I wanted them to die, I wanted to die with them. See how horrible I am? I was an emotional wreck, and I do believe there are still remnants of insanity floating around in there. You have no idea....

No one has to tell me these things because I am more aware of them than most people are. There is no guarantee those things will happen. I will protect them. I will. I'm stronger now, I'm better now. I won't let anyone hurt them. I won't walk away like my parents did, I won't beat them like my parents did. I'm teaching them what I can about the world. I'm trying.

My father is never going to put his hands on them. He is not going to **** them, he is not going to rape them. No one is going to hurt my babies, no one. I'll die before I let that happen. I'll keep them safe. I will I have to keep them safe, I have to.

But...I can't put them in a box. I can't put them in a tower forever...if I try and protect them from the world...you know the story that story with the spindle and the parents tried to protect the girl...sleeping beauty! And they tried to keep her from pain but they couldn't forever and one day she pricked her finger. At the same time I have to let them live and at the same time I have to shield them enough so that what happened to me doesn't happen to them. I more than anyone am aware of those things. I love them.


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## TioMauricio (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm sorry I replied that way, Preso. It just really sounded like that at first, but now I know what you're saying.

Xia, it sounds to me like your kids have an excellent mother. If you think out everything that carefully I'm sure you won't make the same mistakes your parents made with you.


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