# I think my marriage is over



## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

We’ve been married for 12 years with 3 kids all under 10 and the best description about it is it’s in crumble. My husband cheated on me with a gym instructor 18 months ago, it was a 6 months EA & PA affair. When I confronted him he denied, but when I saw them being overly affectionate in a party I knew something was off. So I checked his phone when he was in a shower and I got all the proof that I needed. He was and still is remorseful but I regret I ever married him 

I was a corporate exec when we met and after we have our first baby he asked (demanded) that I step down and took care of the baby, if not he would invite his mom (FIL has passed away) to live with us to do the job. I agreed to step down

After that we went on to have more babies and he became a VP 3 years ago. I supported him but he never really appreciate that. When he came home he went straight to bed or play with kids leaving me alone. Then he met the gym instructor and went on with the affair. He said our relationship became dull and disconnected ( No sh*t, when I tried to talked to him or asked him to go out he’d say that he’s too tired so no wonder we were so diconnected). We didn’t even have hysterical bonding cause I was too disgusted by him, everytime he touched me I thought of how he and his AP did it

I demanded NC and he agreed, we also went to MC. He quit his VP job and get a new one with less hours. Until now he’s doing all he could to salvage the married but I just can’t see him in the same light anymore. I feel that all the efforts and sacrifice that I put into the marriage means nothing. We’re not fighting but we’re not being a couple either. He said that I’ve given up on him, 3 days ago he asked if I love him or not, it took less than 5 seconds for me to answer “NO”. He cried but I didn’t feel anything, he said he’d do anything to keep our family together

Should we go back to MC or what ?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You can try more MC, but it seems like you gave reconciliation a try and it hasn't worked for you. It's time to make a definitive decision.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He threw you and your child away. It's all down to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Well objectively are you going to be able to ever get past the affair? If answer is no then this is over. If you can honestly get past that if the marriage improves then you should tell him that has to be done 100%, NC, and back to marriage counseling. If he doesn't agree to those terms then he isn't ready to work or fix this.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

what a sad situation. 

it sounds like you don't want to R at this point and without that, it will be an uphill battle. 

just so you know, you would not be the first BS not willing to forgive an A despite WS doing everything asked of them.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> I was a corporate exec when we met and after we have our first baby he asked (*demanded*) that I step down and took care of the baby, if not he would invite his mom (FIL has passed away) to live with us to do the job. I agreed to step down
> 
> 
> Should we go back to MC or what ?


He obviously is a very controlling person 'I get what I want' kind of guy. The very first thing you need / must do before you decide about MC or R or D is to take back control of your own life and destiny and restart your career. Do not let his life dictate your path. We all have to walk in our own shoes….Once you do have control again your head will clear and you will make better decisions. By control I mean financial and relationship. You need to set the rules going forward not him. Unfortunately the way the world works today you have to have financial security or you will constantly drift or be a dependant. For my situation many years ago when my WW did a similar thing I could not ever look at her again and I moved on for the better. I wasn’t going to live a life of always wondering and never trusting. You have to decide if you could ever trust this person again because the marriage you had is over – do you want to build a new one with him or start over. The truth is you will never completely trust again, it will for ever be in your head what he did until the day you die. So get your finances back together and decide what’s best for you not what’s best for him, then the unknown of the future isn’t so scary. Gotta go, can post more later if necessary.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

These stories are all the same. They'll do anything to save their family but didn't give s sh!t about their family when they were f&cking their wh0res (male or female). Suggesting it's not about their family but about them.

I guess you could try counseling but if you don't have any feelings for him I don't know what difference it will make.

Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

How long did you go to marriage counseling? I think it would take more than a year to get a marriage back on track (mine did).


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

southernsurf said:


> He obviously is a very controlling person 'I get what I want' kind of guy.
> So get your finances back together and decide what’s best for you not what’s best for him, then the unknown of the future isn’t so scary. Gotta go, can post more later if necessary.


He was, not now though. Somehow he changed after the affair but it's just way too late, i gave it all and he took it for granted. I can see he's trying but it's just not working, i have nothing more to give. Our children is the only reason i'm staying in this house
I'm looking for a job though so fingers crossed


He said that i'm not the only one in private hell, that he was deeply burdened by shame and guilt. Well so sorry for that but he had choices, continous choice that he made everyday for 6 months and he chose to left me out. At least he got the fun and excitement for a while, i just got these sh*t to deal with. Putting on brave and happy faces in front of the kids is emotionally exhausting


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> He was, not now though. Somehow he changed after the affair but it's just way too late, i gave it all and he took it for granted. I can see he's trying but it's just not working, i have nothing more to give. Our children is the only reason i'm staying in this house
> I'm looking for a job though so fingers crossed
> 
> 
> He said that i'm not the only one in private hell, that he was deeply burdened by shame and guilt. Well so sorry for that but he had choices, continous choice that he made everyday for 6 months and he chose to left me out. At least he got the fun and excitement for a while, i just got these sh*t to deal with. Putting on brave and happy faces in front of the kids is emotionally exhausting




I agree, when that feeling is gone, it's gone. 

Cheaters, sigh......


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

have you considered getting back to working now ? Or is it not an option since you had been out of work for far too long ? 

How are you taking care of yourself since you found out ? Are you going to a gym ? Who do you vent to ?

His affair is a terrible thing but don't give him control over your happiness.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ire8179 said:


> He said that i'm not the only one in private hell, that he was deeply burdened by shame and guilt.


Well boo hoo for him... Cheaters always love to find a way to assuage their guilt.

Sounds like this marriage is just about over if you can't get past it. You have to make a decision.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> He said that i'm not the only one in private hell, that he was deeply burdened by shame and guilt. Well so sorry for that but he had choices, continous choice that he made everyday for 6 months and he chose to left me out. At least he got the fun and excitement for a while, i just got these sh*t to deal with. Putting on brave and happy faces in front of the kids is emotionally exhausting


Exactly the way I felt. Wow, you brought it on yourself and got to have the fun without the guilt and pain, so whys should I care if you are hurting now that you are caught (and if not caught would still be continuing on in the same manner without guilt, remorse, fear, etc at all).


Funny how they are so narcissistic that they feel we need to be sorry for their pain!! WTF moment for sure!!


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

If you can't get over your pain, and reconcile, then you can't reconcile. Sometimes it is just too late. 

Sounds like you have a plan to get a job, and move on.
He destroyed any love you had for him. For you, it sounds like you are doing a good job with the 180, and could teach others how to implement it. 

Have you spoken to an attorney yet? What are your plans on your kids and custody?


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## Katey (Sep 23, 2013)

I am in a similar situation. I found out about my husband's PA 20 months ago. We have three children (7, 9 and 11). I gave up my career to move to my husband's country and have not worked since the day before my oldest was born. My husband wants us to stay together but my feelings for him have slowly died since I discovered the affair. I told him as much but he hopes that I will keep trying so that the family can stay together. 

Three weeks ago I had decided that I had had enough. However, his family is pressuring me to give him another chance. I am 45 years old and wish that I could start over. I tell him that he should leave me, return to his OW and start a family with her. I will never love him like I used to. I will never feel special with him.

I wish you peace in coming to a decision. If I had the support of friends and family, I would have left. I cannot move the children out of his country, so I sit here in limbo. I hope you can free yourself.

Katey


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

Chris Taylor said:


> How long did you go to marriage counseling? I think it would take more than a year to get a marriage back on track (mine did).


About 7 months together, when the counselor asked what's the goal of this husband said he wants to fix the marriage i said i just want to understand his motives. After i figured it out i quit but he continues for another 6 months or so

He cried a lot during session but i just can't find it in me to feel sorry for him, it's like i'm turning to stone. Counselor said i'm building high walls around me, that's just about correct. I can't/don't want to let him in again


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Just read your storey and I am sorry for your troubles.I guess he wants everyone to feel sorry for him because he is in a private hell that he brought on himself and dragged you into it.I gather he wasn't full of shame and guilt while he was with the OW and only felt it after you caught him.Now he knows what he is going to lose and is scared.You seem to know that what he did is a deal breaker and any more MC won't work.He is doing everything right now because you told him in no uncertain terms that you don't love him and probably couldn't trust him again.I wish you the best of luck in the job search and with whatever you decide to do with the marriage.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> have you considered getting back to working now ? Or is it not an option since you had been out of work for far too long ?


Yes i've been reaching out to old friends etc to find a job



warlock07 said:


> How are you taking care of yourself since you found out ? Are you going to a gym ? Who do you vent to ?


I told my parents,siblings and close friends, his family also know about this. I talked to them a lot and get the support i need.
The emotion roller coaster was bad so i had to take meds to settled it a bit
I run a lot it helped me clear my mind, also lost 20 lbs


I kicked his ass out of the house when i found out. Told him to pack his own stuff and take off the ring so he can live with his mistress. He said he was going to stayed in some motel which is a trigger because they did it there. I said some sarcasm then he decided his parent house would be better choice. At this point i haven't asked for NC but apparently he broke it off with her via text when he was on his way. I think this is the turning point, the fog lifted and reality kicked in. 
For 2 weeks we had no face to face,i only texted to him about kids.
Kids kept asking about him so we agreed that he went back, we did MC and gave me all his account access. I hated that i was in that position, that i couldn't even trust my own spouse.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

ire8179,
I am sorry for your situation and pain. I have been in your shoes and am very unsympathetic to cheaters. Yet, some of the best advice I received during my turmoil was not to rush to a decision until I had settled down emotionally. It allowed me time to process and understand this major event in my life.

In the end, the damage to my marriage was too great to repair. But I really got understand myself and my ex-wife better. It has allowed me to truly forgive her. I hold no more anger or resent towards her. The extra time used to make my final decision was well worth it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you want to try and reconcile,also look at he Marriage Builders website.

Also google, divorce busters. I can't get closer than that on my ttablet. There are more things you can try to regain love lost.

In no way am I suggesting reconcilliation. That is strictly up to you. Do not hesitate to check out hose sites. Unfortunately, finding a talented MC is difficult. If you do not click, try another and another until you do.

Honestly, he doesn't sound like he was worth keeping before the affair.

Good luck and prayers for you and your kids.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

> Should we go back to MC or what ?


If you didn't ask this question, you wouldn't have any doubts. So on some level, you aren't quite ready to throw in the towel (though nobody would blame you if you do).

But it sounds like you want to leave no stone unturned. I suspect you're NOT sensing much real remorse from him and that's why the crocodile tears annoy you more than cause you to feel any compassion for him.

MOST wayward spouses "don't get it." They are so full of themselves when they have affairs, AND for a good while afterwards (the self-centeredness doesn't just switch off) that they can't figure out how to do remorse. So they try and fail miserably. They can often do guilt, which is all about them (and fine, that's something), but they're not very good at remorse.

I highly recommend the short book How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It's easy to read and it helps unfaithful spouses to finally "get it." I read it first and highlighted parts I especially wanted my husband to read. It has a slight religious tone but that's not prominent throughout the book - it's really practical, as she's a counselor who has obviously worked with many couples who have dealt with infidelity. 

I also recommend MC with someone who has a lot of experience with infidelity - make sure yours does. I'm concerned that it sounds like your husband continued on without you, seeing the same person - that's not standard practice with couples counselors who maintain strong boundaries in work with couples. Unless you're in a rural area with no other options, they typically will refuse to see members of the couple individually, except early on in the process for a one-time, getting to know you session. If he's been seeing the counselor alone, that sets up a relationship with the two of them that changes the dynamic of the MC relationship.

You have been dealt a horrible blow. You've been traumatized, and a book that explains this really well is NOT Just Friends by Shirley Glass, who many consider THE infidelity expert. It's a real eye-opener. We are also grieving - lost dreams, trust, best friend, and so much more.

Take care of yourself - I know you've been focusing on the kids, but for their sake you need to be good to yourself.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

ire8179 said:


> About 7 months together, when the counselor asked what's the goal of this husband said he wants to fix the marriage i said i just want to understand his motives. After i figured it out i quit but he continues for another 6 months or so


It is not clear to me that you ever really wanted to R. MC is usually an important part of it, but your response is intructive. 

If you are done, it is likely better for both of you for you to end it. Nothing wrong with that.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> About 7 months together, when the counselor asked what's the goal of this husband said he wants to fix the marriage i said i just want to understand his motives. After i figured it out i quit but he continues for another 6 months or so
> 
> He cried a lot during session but i just can't find it in me to feel sorry for him, it's like i'm turning to stone.* Counselor said i'm building high walls around me*, that's just about correct. I can't/don't want to let him in again


If the councelor tells you that you are building high walls again, I'd tell him/her this. "It was built from the stones that my husband used to crush my heart.".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest, before you do anything like leaving:
Get your own IC and start going regularly. Figure out who you are. You gave up your 'identity' to please him and raise kids. Find that person again.
Go back to MC at least monthly. While there, let MC know you are still dead to him and don't know why. The MC can then drill deeper into what's really wrong with your marriage.
Get the book His Needs Her Needs and read it. Read the material at the Marriage Builders website (but avoid their forum; it's toxic and dangerous). Understand what it takes, what it means, to keep and nurture a marriage. You'll be surprised at how much you didn't know. read HNHN as soon as possible.
Print out the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires that go with the book. Both of you fill them out and share the results. Learn more about each other. To have compassion for him, you must first understand him.
Find ways to spend 15 hours a week with him away from childrearing, chores, or work. To keep a marriage alive, you need time together one on one, getting to know each other, enjoying good times together. Without that, your marriage won't survive.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well, it's completely your decision whether to give your husband the gift of reconciliation. Try as long as you feel it makes sense to try, or not at all. 

Don't let anyone tell you that you are doing the wrong thing, whatever you decide.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I believe when you can say you're done with little to no emotion, then the relationship is on its deathbed. You have nothing to save, as in your heart... it seems that you released him some time ago. History and children are not enough to hold a relationship together....


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

One of the reason why i'm staying is because my mom said i shouldn't be thinking only about me, when he was out for 2 weeks the kids weren't happy about it so let alone divorce. They'd be collateral damage. And what am i gonna tell them, that their dad had a gf and i can't forgive him? 
Well from where i stand i'm a collateral damage too of his affair, i didn't choose to be here yet here i am

People can see that he's really trying and telling me to give him a chance but i just can't. So now my mom think i'm selfish, funny how she was in my position yet have little concern about myself

Funny (ironically) how me and my husband switched position, 3 years ago he was the one who ignored me and i was the one who asked for his time and now we are in complete reverse. He told me that he's scared that i'd find someone else, i said "well probably". I won't stoop to that level i just said that to hurt him

I no longer checked on his phone/email etc, he thinks it's great that my trust for him is increasing but one of my friends comment just hit me, " is it because you trust him or because you don't care?". I seriously can't figure it out


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the suggested books and visit the suggested websites.

Harley says its best to tell the children, in an age appropriate way the truth, as lying to them makes it worse.

Ask yourself if you can try for say, six months to see ifthings get better.. I just don't see him as worth it before the affair. Staying just for the kids may make you old and bitter. 

I saw a woman today at lunch with a man. The look on her face seemed etched in permenant unhappiness. Do not sacrifice your self to a life of unhappiness if you can't see things being better with him.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, most people leave though women will give a cheater a second chance about twice as often as men. Still, only about forty five percent of women will give it a shot.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> I saw a woman today at lunch with a man. The look on her face seemed etched in permenant unhappiness. Do not sacrifice your self to a life of unhappiness if you can't see things being better with him.


:iagree:
That will also have a negative impact on your kids.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

ire8179 said:


> One of the reason why i'm staying is because my mom said i shouldn't be thinking only about me, when he was out for 2 weeks the kids weren't happy about it so let alone divorce. They'd be collateral damage. And what am i gonna tell them, that their dad had a gf and i can't forgive him?
> Well from where i stand i'm a collateral damage too of his affair, i didn't choose to be here yet here i am
> 
> People can see that he's really trying and telling me to give him a chance but i just can't. So now my mom think i'm selfish, funny how she was in my position yet have little concern about myself
> ...


The challenge you have is a difficult one but I will also say that if you think you can one day get past the A and forgive, that the marriage can still work. Remember that love is a choice so if you believe that you will be able to forgive him one day then you can choose to love him again.

If you don't think you can ever forgive and move past the A, then it's likely best to move on. As others have said though, I would give it some time to see how you feel about things a month from now, 3 months from now and perhaps even 6 months from now. Time has a way of giving us new perspective.

As for your last statement, I believe it's a bit of both. Right now, you're numb so there really isn't much else he could do to you to hurt you. That's why you don't feel the need to snoop. That and this whole situation has made you more than a bit apathetic towards the relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Statistically, most marriages don't end because of infidelity. They wait it out and find ways to make it work. Is it the worst thing you'll ever experience? Probably. But life is full of bad experiences and your worth is measured in how you deal with them, not if you just run away from them.

You haven't even tried to fix the marriage, from what I see. Read books - especially HNHN, read websites, read articles, get into IC and MC, and SPEND that time together. Give it 6 months. Don't just leave your marriage just because he's done this, without even trying to see if you can repair it. You don't even know what you'd get out there - except for 2 kids who've now experienced their world being broken up.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> Statistically, most marriages don't end because of infidelity. They wait it out and find ways to make it work. Is it the worst thing you'll ever experience? Probably. But life is full of bad experiences and your worth is measured in how you deal with them, not if you just run away from them.
> 
> You haven't even tried to fix the marriage, from what I see. Read books - especially HNHN, read websites, read articles, get into IC and MC, and SPEND that time together. Give it 6 months. Don't just leave your marriage just because he's done this, without even trying to see if you can repair it. You don't even know what you'd get out there - except for 2 kids who've now experienced their world being broken up.


I'm not sure I understand this post. Googleing infidelity statistics, the numbers I have seen most often is that only about 35% of marriages end when one is caught cheating. 45% of marriages survive if the husband cheats. I think that means if the wife cheats, about 20% of marriages survive. I cant figure out if that's because the wife has totally checked out or the husbands refuse to be cuckolded.

To me this makes it looks like most marriages do not survive infidelity.

Worse is that "experts" claim 80% of people that commit adultery are never caught.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If only 35% end after infidelity, then most (65%) stay married.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> If only 35% end after infidelity, then most (65%) stay married.


I miss typed, 35% survive. 65% fail.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

FYI, if you want to tip the scales toward divorce, try individual counseling for yourself. The following is from the website of the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists:

_Individual therapy may undermine more marriages than even poor couples therapy. Because relationship problems are the main problem people bring to individual therapists, individual therapists are treating marriages whether or not they realize it. Unless the therapist has values that support marriage and is careful not to turn the non-present partner into a villain, individual therapy can undermine a marriage. Every experienced marriage therapist has heard these stories: a spouse goes into individual therapy, receives support for a one-sided view of the marriage problems, and becomes increasingly pessimistic about the marriage. The therapist then questions why the person stays in an obviously bad marriage. The other spouse is clueless that the marriage is unraveling in therapy, and is not informed until it is too late. These therapists do not intend harm, but often their orientation is to the personal happiness of their individual client who is distressed in a marriage, without enough regard for the welfare of the other spouse…._

You asked about MC; it's a good idea if you want to give your marriage one last chance, but only if the MC is really good and has experience with couples who have dealt with infidelity. But do avoid IC unless you want to increase your chances of divorce.

Again, please be good to yourself. You're traumatized and grieving and you need to take care of you in order to be able to be the best mom for your kids and just to be able to get through each day.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> You haven't even tried to fix the marriage, from what I see. Read books - especially HNHN, read websites, read articles, get into IC and MC, and SPEND that time together. Give it 6 months. Don't just leave your marriage just because he's done this, without even trying to see if you can repair it. You don't even know what you'd get out there - except for 2 kids who've now experienced their world being broken up.


We went to MC and i read some books, he reads too. 
Thing is I just LOST it, there's nothing there. 

Cheating wasnt the only thing.
This is what life was like pre-affair since he became VP: 
5/6am he started with exercise, get ready for work and help with the kids, then breakfast. No kiss or "i love you" there just a peck. 
7/8ish pm he comes home,shower and hang out with kids.
8.30pm finish put kids to bed
8.30-9.30pm check work-stuff again
then he watch tv or on the internet and sleep

For years i tried to reconnect with him, what did he say? I'm to busy or you complain too much

I think the affair is not the first blow but the final blow to our marriage. The marriage was in critical point and it happened. I tried to recapture the feelings, remembering the good times, focus on the person he is right now but it's just not working


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Which is exactly why I said you must spend 15 hours a week together to want to be together again. He's willing, so now it's up to you. Just try it. See what happens.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why do you think he is hanging on? Has he now discovered that he loves you?

Or does he merely fear failure? The unknown?

What sort of good qualities does he have? You have listed nothing at all. 

Were you in a sexless marriage?

From the lack of connection prior to the affair it sounds as if you would have scarcely enjoyed physical contact even then.

He had an affair with a gym instructor. Was she much younger? Do you get to the gym much yourself? I think you husband should make time for you to work out so that you can feel positive about yourself.

Turnera is very experienced. She seems to want to you to delay making a decision. Does her advice irritate you or give you some sort of sliver of hope?


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

Sounds like you've already divorced, you just haven't filled out the paperwork.

Given the dynamic of your marriage, even prior to the affair, I think your kids would be better off if you separated. It doesn't sound like an emotionally healthy environment (and they see and sense far more than you think they do).


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Why do you think he is hanging on? Has he now discovered that he loves you?
> 
> Or does he merely fear failure? The unknown?
> 
> ...


After the affair when it comes to him i feel like i dont know him anymore. I can't guess what his motives are. It could be the same as me (kids), or maybe he genuinely loves me or he fears that his dough will be cut in half i'm not sure.

3 weeks ago we were in a party and he was speaking to a woman, they were laughing and having a good time. I looked at them and he got that "am i doing something wrong" looks, he came to me and asked if everything was ok i said yes, he said he knew i wasn't and we were silent on way home. Thing is when he was with his AP before i caught them being overly touchy they were acting like normal. Now i just can't guess if he's being honest or not. There's this nagging voice questioning my thoughts and instincts

We weren't in sexless marriage 2 times a week but he was more like a wam-bam type and i craved for intimacy. I wasn't feeling appreciated or listened to so it's more like fluid exchange to me

She's 8 years younger, and yes i exercise. Not gym but routine cardio and i like dvd workout, 5'4" 127lbs. Body image is not an issue here

His good quality? 
He is a very good father. He's the good cop i'm the disciplinarian.
We share a lot of hobbies so that's fun.
He's fit for his age.
He likes to make furniture, he made all the cribs. 
He's excellent at making plans. 
And a good provider



LongWalk said:


> Turnera is very experienced. She seems to want to you to delay making a decision. Does her advice irritate you or give you some sort of sliver of hope?


She said i haven't try to fix it, well i tried. But the more i try the more it feels like putting a mask on my face


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> Statistically, most marriages don't end because of infidelity. They wait it out and find ways to make it work. Is it the worst thing you'll ever experience? Probably. But life is full of bad experiences and your worth is measured in how you deal with them, not if you just run away from them.
> 
> You haven't even tried to fix the marriage, from what I see. Read books - especially HNHN, read websites, read articles, get into IC and MC, and SPEND that time together. Give it 6 months. Don't just leave your marriage just because he's done this, without even trying to see if you can repair it. *You don't even know what you'd get out there *- except for 2 kids who've now experienced their world being broken up.


To me, this is the big thing. Many people seem to have the "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" mentality. Maybe it really isn't and maybe you wouldn't find someone better but rather just a different set of problems.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> Which is exactly why I said you must spend 15 hours a week together to want to be together again. He's willing, so now it's up to you. Just try it. See what happens.



And this is what I find most perplexing. If you don't spend any real time at something, how can you expect to be good at it or for it, meaning the marriage, to be good.

I owned a Health club in the 90s and I was always surprised at how people wanted and expected results without putting too much time and energy into something. I was always realistic with people. If you were 30 lbs over weight, you weren't going to magically look the way you wanted again in 2 or 3 weeks. It could take months or even a year of hard work to undo the years of eating poorly and doing no exercise. 

Marriage, or anything else worth having, is going to require more work than just going through the motions. If a couple doesn't work on their marriage, it shouldn't be a surprise that it's not a very good one.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> After the affair when it comes to him i feel like i dont know him anymore. I'm not sure.
> 
> I was a corporate exec when we met and after we have our first baby he asked (_*demanded*_) that I step down and take care of the baby, if not he would invite his mom (FIL has passed away) to live with us to do the job. I agreed to step down


I think you are still upset with this. You seem to gloss over this a little too much for me. I think you've had problems such as this to begin with. 



ire8179 said:


> His good quality?
> He is a very good father. He's the good cop i'm the disciplinarian.
> We share a lot of hobbies so that's fun.
> He's fit for his age.
> ...


Why did you get married in the first place?!? 
Before the kids was he SO SO different than the person he is today?!? Did any of these questions ever come up in MC?



ire8179 said:


> Should we go back to MC or what ?
> 
> She _*(MC?)*_ said i haven't try to fix it, well i tried. But the more i try the more it feels like putting a mask on my face


You and him are both hurting & kids can tell. Yes, you have a right to live a happy life, *BUT* your kids have a right to know both parents. Your kids never asked for any of this either.
It is a hard situation to be placed into. *BUT* as others have stated here, you do not owe anything to him. I would urge you to think of the kids. That does not mean you MUST stay married to their father. It means you need to find a way to, at the least become friends with him again. If, later you are able to allow him back into a romantic light, fine. You have been clear on these forums, you are not in favor of this, at least right now. Don't feel bad if that is your decision. Time will offer more solutions. Good Luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

ire8179 said:


> We went to MC and i read some books, he reads too.
> Thing is I just LOST it, there's nothing there.
> 
> Cheating wasnt the only thing.
> ...


I was just about to ask this. You had several other major issues and resentments with his behavior towards you and his infidelity is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Regardless of what you decide to do with you marriage, you need to start making positive steps for yourself and your kids. You cannot let the hate for him consume you and destroy the person you are.

Do you think a separation can help you ?

Do you think he still loves you or do you think he is trying to repair the situation because of the kids ?

How often are you guys intimate these days ? 

How would you describe the relationship between you two these days ? Some good days and some bad days Or some less bad days, bad days and worse days ?

Do you have lot of arguments ?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ire8179 said:


> After the affair when it comes to him i feel like i dont know him anymore.


That's because you spend no time together! You see him maybe 30 minutes a day. How can you maintain a relationship like that?



ire8179 said:


> She said i haven't try to fix it, well i tried.


Really? What did you do? Have you read the book I recommended, the most recommended book I know of? Have you followed the MB plan for reconciliation? Are you spending 15 hours a week together? Are you doing new things together? Do you have time together without the kids? Are you talking about things you used to talk about, like goals, dreams, movies, news, books, anything under the sun?

That's what trying to fix it looks like. I'm not trying to dis you, I'm trying to help you learn what R looks like. It's a lot of hard work. As a parent, I feel you should be trying to do something different than what you've done so far, before you walk away from this family.

btw, are you aware of PEA chemicals? It's the 'love chemical,' it's what makes people head over heels in love. Like you felt when you were first with him. But it only stays in your body for about 3 to 5 years, then it stops being produced, and all you're left with is ... compatibility and a commitment to be together. Now I know he's trampled on that, but he at least appears to be wanting to try. 

The reason I'm telling you is that I sense you may be feeling that, because you're not feeling butterflies for him, you must not love him any more. That, combined with the underground pain and resentment you hold against him, it's going to be hard for you to be in a place mentally where you can recognize that you CAN have a long, lasting love affair with him. But it can happen, IF you're capable of getting over what he did. I've seen complete wrecks of marriages turn around just by reading HNHN and following the MB plan.

It's your choice, of course. I just don't get from the way you write, that this is worth throwing away. At least not yet.


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## m0nk (Mar 14, 2014)

ire8179 said:


> We’ve been married for 12 years with 3 kids all under 10 and the best description about it is it’s in crumble. My husband cheated on me with a gym instructor 18 months ago, it was a 6 months EA & PA affair. When I confronted him he denied, but when I saw them being overly affectionate in a party I knew something was off. So I checked his phone when he was in a shower and I got all the proof that I needed. He was and still is remorseful but I regret I ever married him
> 
> I was a corporate exec when we met and after we have our first baby he asked (demanded) that I step down and took care of the baby, if not he would invite his mom (FIL has passed away) to live with us to do the job. I agreed to step down
> 
> ...


You have already decided. You cannot make yourself feel for or love someone you cannot respect. It sounds like it's time to serve him and decide in a way where each party has equal access to the children. They are the ones who will suffer from this as it sounds like you have moved on. Regardless of the horrible f*ck up he made, he deserves to be in their lives. Best of luck to you.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> How long did you go to marriage counseling? I think it would take more than a year to get a marriage back on track (mine did).


That's what I'm thinking too. I'm 5 months into R and have a ways to go. Perhaps step back and really evaluate the situation.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

Divorce will not change the pain you are in. You will have to have a relationship with your H as a co-parent.

Suggestions to spend time with your H doing new things, flirt a little, laugh a lot - ask your H to date you. You might be able to rekindle the love.

If not, at least do your best to become friends because you have a lifetime of parenting ahead. 

Right now, my H is living with his OW. I would love for him to want to reconcile. But I know that he can't just move back with me. We will need to start a fresh and build our relationship back. I don't know if I will ever get that chance but I hope I do.

Don't throw away your marriage yet. The divorce process will not be easy either.

Good luck and I certainly know how you feel. Infidelity is one of the worst type of betrayals there is but today everyone seems to think these things happen - either get over it or move on.

Right now, I am standing for my marriage. I am not getting over it or moving on. I don't know how much longer I am going to wait for that affair high to go away and for the affair to end.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

Update :

I've made my decision, told him the best way for us is to Divorce. There's no point of trying anymore because this feels like an arrangement not relationship. After trying so so hard i realized that i can't forgive his affair, i'm no longer angry or feeling intense hate but it's something that's unacceptable so love is certainly out of view

The more i try the more i feel resentment toward myself, there's huge doubts in my mind about his honesty and it'll never go away. I'm drifting further away and i can't stop it. He's a wonderful father now and has made a lot of efforts to resurrect us again but it's not working and i admit that it's because i felt uncomfortable with those.

I'm no longer triggered, mostly because i beat it instead of avoiding it (eg they always had moet champagne so i bought it and enjoyed it for myself, the one who got triggered was actually him, he freaked out). But whenever i see him i always see that selfish cold and uncaring person

I kept the divorce paper from way back and finally filed this week


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Good for you, ire.

There are many on TAM (myself included) who dragged out the end of a marriage FAR too long. Kudos to you for making a decision and following through.

How is the job search going -- did you find work?

Also, is the gym instructor AP married? If so, did you expose to her husband?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

needhelp1976 said:


> Divorce will not change the pain you are in. You will have to have a relationship with your H as a co-parent.


I don't know this is the case. For me it is the fact that I know what I am supposed to be doing in a marriage relationship, but like the OP, I can't trust and get over it. With D, even though I have to co-parent that is the extent of the relationship that I have to maintain. I don't have to cohabit ate any longer, and I don't have to reserve myself in my thoughts and actions for sake of R solely. I can then be free to not care what she is doing or with whom, which are thoughts and scares that a marriage should quash and not bring about worse. For some D is the point that sets one free from the chains that are binding. Also with D i won't have to see the spouse everyday and be constantly reminded of their actions and lack of actions as well.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the update. R is not for everyone. D was my path as well. 

Best wishes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Good for you, ire.
> 
> There are many on TAM (myself included) who dragged out the end of a marriage FAR too long. Kudos to you for making a decision and following through.
> 
> ...


Thanks happy, i'm grateful that i found a new job. One of my new team member is a fresh graduate and ridiculously so funny so that free entertainment everyday 

She's single, she's moved out cause she can't find new job here. After dday he broke it off with her and she thought that it was my fault, she came to my house and made quite a scene. Stbx was there too but he avoided her, i literally had to physically dragged him and told him to dealt with her. It was sad really, she couldn't stop crying and told him that he's a liar. He told her that he'd eventually divorce me and marry her, fed her lies after lies, gifts etc and she fell to the trap. Whatever, i don't care about her pain. She later called me to apologize but when i asked her if he chose her would she still feel sorry, she froze. She's sorry she didn't get him not because she slept with him


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> Update :
> 
> I've made my decision, told him the best way for us is to Divorce. There's no point of trying anymore because this feels like an arrangement not relationship. After trying so so hard i realized that i can't forgive his affair, i'm no longer angry or feeling intense hate but it's something that's unacceptable so love is certainly out of view
> 
> ...


You can patch a leaky boat and continue to sail in it, but you'll always be wondering how it will hold up in the next storm.

I, myself tried patching it once. I ended up almost drowning and had to swim back to the shore. Ever since then, I jump ship instead of patching.

At least I'll be swimming in calmer waters.

Some times you just can't "fake it, 'till you make it" when trying to R.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

ire8179 said:


> ...she came to my house and made quite a scene. Stbx was there too but he avoided her, i literally had to physically dragged him and told him to dealt with her. It was sad really, she couldn't stop crying and told him that he's a liar...


Wow, that's quite an episode! I probably would have called the cops, then it would have become an ugly legal mess. I think you handled it perfectly.

The fact that he was lying to BOTH of you shows his true colors. And the fact that he wanted to hide from her and leave YOU to deal with her, sobbing on your doorstep, shows he is a coward to boot. I do not believe he is capable of true remorse, redemption or reconciliation. 

I think you are doing the right thing. Please keep us updated as you make progress in your "new" life. I think the details of how your divorce goes would be very helpful to many here who are in the same situation.

:smthumbup:

P.S. GREAT news on your new job... Congrats!!! And THIS, folks, is how you deal with a wayward spouse.


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## Singleton (May 30, 2013)

Following the boat analogy above, what are the choices: Find a used but leak-free boat or just stay onshore?

50% of first marriages end in divorce
60% of second marriages end in divorce
70% of third marriages end in divorce

Post-divorce trading season starts with slim pickings and then gets worse!


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

ire8179 said:


> Our children is the only reason i'm staying in this house
> 
> when the counselor asked *what's the goal* of this husband said he wants to fix the marriage i said *i just want to understand his motives*. After i figured it out i quit
> 
> Counselor said i'm building high walls around me, that's just about correct. I can't/don't want to let him in again


Staying for the kids is a terrible reason, they will know something is wrong, and when they are older and hear "we stayed for you(kids)" they will blame themselves for your misery. Do not put this on them, please.

The way I read this, you wanted to figure out his motives, the goal was not to reconcile, so why bother with more counseling?

If you have no desire to be with this man, let him go, work on you, and take it one step at a time. What is the point to being in a one sided attempt to reconcile? The end result is always failure.

edit: just saw the update, good on you for making the choice that was right for you. I hope you find love and happiness soon.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

turnera said:


> I suggest, before you do anything like leaving:
> Get your own IC and start going regularly. Figure out who you are. You gave up your 'identity' to please him and raise kids. Find that person again.
> Go back to MC at least monthly. While there, let MC know you are still dead to him and don't know why. The MC can then drill deeper into what's really wrong with your marriage.
> Get the book His Needs Her Needs and read it. Read the material at the Marriage Builders website (but avoid their forum; it's toxic and dangerous). Understand what it takes, what it means, to keep and nurture a marriage. You'll be surprised at how much you didn't know. read HNHN as soon as possible.
> ...


It sounds like your mind has been made up for a while, but it's amazing what clarity comes with time and with a lot of personal counselling. After I figured out who I was, I knew immediately I didn't want to save my marriage because I knew that person couldn't meet my needs.

I like Turneras' advice here. And I'd like to think you don't have to make a decision until you have learnt more about yourself and what you want. Turn your focus inward and forget about the broken marriage for a while. See what happens. I wish you well no matter what decision you make.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

ire8179 said:


> Update :
> 
> I've made my decision, told him the best way for us is to Divorce. There's no point of trying anymore because this feels like an arrangement not relationship. After trying so so hard i realized that i can't forgive his affair, i'm no longer angry or feeling intense hate but it's something that's unacceptable so love is certainly out of view
> 
> ...


You know, I envy your clarity and bravery. Good work.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

Paladin said:


> Staying for the kids is a terrible reason, they will know something is wrong, and when they are older and hear "we stayed for you(kids)" they will blame themselves for your misery. Do not put this on them, please.
> 
> The way I read this, you wanted to figure out his motives, the goal was not to reconcile, so why bother with more counseling?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the good wishes paladin 

Post dday i thought that we really could fix it because i read many cases where marriage survive affair and some even stated that it made relationship better (blah,now i don't trust this. Different but not better). I had a conservative value regarding family, and was influenced by people around me, when affair happens the wife forgives

I did that 3am Amazon shopping and bought a lot of books cause i was desperate to keep our family together. And let's admit that at least 80% of resources out there strongly suggested R and that BS can love WS again, i bought these concept and it failed miserably

I told myself time after time to trust him again, to let the guard down and let him in again but i always felt ambivalence. One side told me to trust him again because he's trying, the other told me that he did that because he wanted to keep his cake


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## NoRush (Jul 14, 2014)

Sometimes it happens, as it did with you, that although there's a conscious part of you that might want an R, the subconscious part can't stand the thought. The harder the conscious side pushes, the more the subconscious resists.

Yours is a case where a separation might have helped. Get the affair off your mind, then look at the man he's become and decide if you're willing to pick up the pieces.

Hell, just because you've filed doesn't mean that it's over. You don't need to tell yourself to go for an R. It's okay to let go now. But since he's a co-parent, you will need to pay attention to his behavior regardless. If he reverts to his old ways you'll know that this was the right decision. If he truly seems to be a changed man, don't second guess and ask if it was the wrong choice, just ask yourself if the new and improved man is worth the risk.

And if it seems like I'm pushing for an R, it's because of what I pick up from reading between the lines. You don't seem to really want a D but the issues surrounding his PA have prevented you from embracing an R. 

Filing for D was the correct choice.

Hope it goes well for you. Don't try to fight against your heart as you've done in the past.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

ire8179 said:


> ...i read many cases where marriage survive affair and some even stated that it made relationship better (blah,now i don't trust this. Different but not better). I had a conservative value regarding family, and was influenced by people around me, when affair happens the wife forgives


In our case, the marriage we have now, is better in almost every possible way. That did not happen *because* of her affair, it happened because *we both* decided to *work* on ourselves and the marriage. I agree with you about women being disproportionally pressured to forgive a cheating spouse. I do not subscribe to that idea, as I think gender has nothing to do with the issue. The chance to reconcile and grant forgiveness rests solely in the hands of the person who was wronged. Even if the transgressor is genuinely remorseful and does everything that needs to be done, there are no guarantees that reconciliation, or forgiveness, will be granted to them. 

People are all wired differently, for some, it is very difficult, or impossible, to get past infidelity. Sometimes people end up staying together for kids, social pressure, or any number of other motivating factors that do little, or nothing at all, to help resolve the issues. In those cases, resentment builds on one side, or both, and the relationship turns toxic, poisoning everyone involved. 

I strongly believe that individual counseling is a major requirement for getting through the damage infidelity leaves in its wake. Regardless of which path you choose, divorce or reconciliation, counseling is an absolute must. I was seeing a counselor 2x a week after my wife confessed her affair, I was also seeing a psychiatrist, as certain medications are a massive help early in the process. She was also doing the same with her own counselor. When she met the prerequisites for starting R(reconciliation), we began couples counseling, so in effect, we were seeing counselors 3x a week for over 6 months.

October will be 3 years since she confessed, I consider us fully reconciled, and if we fail in the future, I will consider it a failed marriage, not a failed reconciliation. 

As you move forward, I strongly encourage you to seek out a good counselor and make counseling a regular part of your life. You will benefit significantly from developing the skills to do interpersonal work in that kind of environment, and may learn things about yourself you may not have been aware of.

Again, best of luck to you, I hope you find peace and happiness, and eventually, a person to love that loves you back the same way.


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