# This hurts so much but I want to forgive her.



## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

I know time is the great healer but what do I do for right now?

I suspected that she was cheating but I didn't know to what extent until this weekend. I had read on hear about the voice activated recorders. On Saturday I got to listen to 5 days worth of her being home alone - only she wasn't home alone much.

We have tried to be more adventurous and we have had some great times but I always stopped at inviting others into our sexlife. I knew she was looking for more but just hoped it was a phase or something.

She's very sorry but her views on sex are now seemingly very different from mine.

She's changed so much but it's still the woman I love in there - somewhere.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK. Firstly, is it anyone you know? Secondly, how long for? Thirdly, will she stop completly?

And MC is a must.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If she's been pulling a train while you were at work, the best you can hope for is to be the conductor.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> She's changed so much but it's still the woman I love in there - somewhere.


I am so sorry that you're here. Unfortunately, the wife that you once knew is DEAD! She has been replaced by someone who looks like her, but trust me, she's not the same woman that you married.

How long have you been married? Any kids? Is she willing to do the work necessary to begin a new and stronger marriage? If not, then you should let her go. Also, now that she's tasted the forbidden fruit of strange sex, it might be really difficult for her to go back to the same ol' same ol' with you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Don't give forgiveness to someone who doesn't ask for it..


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

If you want to want to forgive her you're doing this wrong, and inviting a repeat affair. 

She needs to earn it, not be given it or she won't value it.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> OK. Firstly, is it anyone you know? Secondly, how long for? Thirdly, will she stop completly?
> 
> And MC is a must.


Sort of - several guys and a couple we met at an adult club. She's into being submissive which I have a hard time with. She says 6 months. 

She will stop cheating but doesn't want to stop having adventures. I admit she has asked me to push the envelope with her. I saw this coming.

If i had to summarize her behaviour it would be like she's going through a hippie stage - free love and all.

MC - no way a traditional MC would work for either of us.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> Sort of - several guys and a couple we met at an adult club. She's into being submissive which I have a hard time with. She says 6 months.
> 
> *She will stop cheating but doesn't want to stop having adventures*. I admit she has asked me to push the envelope with her. I saw this coming.
> 
> ...


And you're buying this?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

hookares said:


> If she's been pulling a train while you were at work, the best you can hope for is to be the conductor.


Look, the poor chap is in a lot of pain. Maybe snappy oneliners will not help him just at the moment.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe you are in shock or maybe you are confused but your head is so far in the clouds that I am not sure that anything we tell here will be helpful..

You wife is a swinging with other couples in your house and she is giving you terms for reconciliation ? How the hell did you get here man ?? What do you have such low self esteem.

Why isn't kicking out a cheating spouse an option ?


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I am so sorry that you're here. Unfortunately, the wife that you once knew is DEAD! She has been replaced by someone who looks like her, but trust me, she's not the same woman that you married.
> 
> How long have you been married? Any kids? Is she willing to do the work necessary to begin a new and stronger marriage? If not, then you should let her go. Also, now that she's tasted the forbidden fruit of strange sex, it might be really difficult for her to go back to the same ol' same ol' with you.


We all grow and change but she's still my wife and best friend.

13 years. 3 kids.

She's willing to do almost anything to keep us together as a family but she basically wants us to become swingers.

I love her for her free-spirit but the cheating hurts. The things I heard on the VAR are stuck in my head - and i keep listening to it!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> Sort of - several guys and a couple we met at an adult club. She's into being submissive which I have a hard time with. She says 6 months.
> 
> She will stop cheating but doesn't want to stop having adventures. I admit she has asked me to push the envelope with her. I saw this coming.
> 
> ...


Says who?

You both attend an 'adult' club and wonder why your wife has sex with other people? 

You both need to be tested for STDs/HIV.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I just want to puke after hearing the details..OP, do you even realize how disgusting the stuff she is doing is. Why do you even want such a woman in your life ?


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am sorry you are hear but it sounds like you may have been involved with opening the door. 

I am going to assume you want to be the only other person in the marriage. No other paymate male or female right?

If so will she commit to this? Does she look at what she did as cheating? If not there is no hope

You are going to need to tell us all more about what and why it happened and your wifes attitude about this for anyone to offer real help.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm not sure what you want. Its very clear what your wife wants, but it sound like you are not willing to let her go if she continues?

Thats the thing here, she betrayed you, yet you show her no consequences, and search out how to forgive her. 

Its almost like you would reward her for this instead of showing her you will no longer tolorate it.

May I suggest you could forgive her if she she learned the tools to affair proof the marriage and stop the deciet. I mean forgiveness is earned isn't it?


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Maybe you are in shock or maybe you are confused but your head is so far in the clouds that I am not sure that anything we tell here will be helpful..
> 
> You wife is a swinging with other couples in your house and she is giving you terms for reconciliation ? How the hell did you get here man ?? What do you have such low self esteem.
> 
> Why isn't kicking out a cheating spouse an option ?


I know TAM is a pretty conservative forum but I do appreciate everyones input/posts. Even the one liners - it all helps me think this through and form feelings and opinions.

I don't have low self-esteem - far from it. Kicking her out is of course an option. But that's not what i want.

This is about being married to a woman whose moral compass is different from mine but one that I am willing to stay married to.

She want's to make this up to me in several different ways but most of her ideas seem self-serving. I'm trying to figure out how to wrap my head around all this.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

need more details. 

FYI, What you want is not to forgive, it's to reconcile. They are not the same path and you are light years away from getting a chance to reconcile. 

To find that path will require both of you looking for it. Right now there is only you and if you rush to offer your forgiveness, thats all there will ever be. Forgiving is a unilateral step toward reconciliation, but reconciliation must be bilateral and reciprocal.

Her path to remorse, and then potentially to a desire to reconcile starts with consequences. Clear consequences. Without consequences, there will be no genuine remorse. Without remorse, there will be no reconciliation.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

mahike said:


> I am sorry you are hear but it sounds like you may have been involved with opening the door.
> 
> I am going to assume you want to be the only other person in the marriage. No other paymate male or female right?
> 
> ...


I admit I was very involved in opening the door.

I'm not opposed to polyamorous relationships - it's the cheating that hurts the most. not her having sex with others.

As for the details - I don't want this to become some tittilation thread on the internet. She's being having sex with multiple partners - men and women and couples. mostly involving BDSM which I know she loves but I struggle to get into - just not my thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> She's willing to do almost anything to keep us together as a family but she basically wants us to become swingers.


She is telling you she wants the convenience of you taking care of her but to be able to live the life SHE wants, with you just as a helper.

Are you willing to accept that life?

Do you want your kids to grow up believing in self-absorption and entitlement? They will become what they see in you (or her).


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you listened to the recording together? Have the both of discussed how hurtful they are to you?

Bottom line here she wants to swing and you don't!

You can't control her but you can control what you will tolorate by staying with her or letting her go.

Have you gone a line and looked at chastidy belts, this may an option you both could benifit from. For a few hundred bucks you can get a real good one for her. Sorry for thinking out side the box but maybe its what she needs.

Has she contacted the guys and the couple to let them know she can no longer contact them? This is your 1st step. If she wants her marraige she needs to write a no contact letter to these poeple.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

turnera said:


> She is telling you she wants the convenience of you taking care of her but to be able to live the life SHE wants, with you just as a helper.
> 
> Are you willing to accept that life?
> 
> Do you want your kids to grow up believing in self-absorption and entitlement? They will become what they see in you (or her).


Not sure I understand what you are saying. I don't take care of her - she is financially independent. We split the family responsibilities well.

She is the most non-self absorbed person I know - she's a giver.

She's certainly not entitled.

Please clarify


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

She wants "A"

You want "B"

Compromise on "C" that works for both of you. If she only wants "A" then well you move on.

What I'm reading here is you don't mind as long as you're made aware of it and approve of who she is with. BTW, not knocking you at all, everyone has a right to live their life the way they want it. You have certain boundaries that she has to follow, if she can't follow them you file for divorce and allow her to live life like a hippy from the 70's with her free love attitude.

It's all about communication and compromise that will work for both of you. If you both can't be on the same page then either suck it up and just live with the situation or move on with your life.

13 years and 3 kids. Another 30 years together but unhappy and that will affect your kids. Or 30 years apart and happy and your kids see 2 parents who are actually happy and enjoy life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> She want's to make this up to me in several different ways but most of her ideas seem self-serving. I'm trying to figure out how to wrap my head around all this.


 That's the problem. You need to decide what YOU would need, and if she won't do it, move on. Because if she won't do what YOU need, then you know you are just a convenience.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dude, its over.
If she is a sub, then your marriage is DOOMED !!!!!
You can split hairs all you want, but the ppl she play with is going to control your life. She is going to be used anyway some guy wants her to be. Thats why she is into it. She will meet a dom thats going to push, and thast push may be hooking for him., or letting his friends use her.

So YOU either get her help.or have her commited.
I can tell you right now, that if she is for real, tyhen you and the kids means nothing.
Also, from the way you are telling it, YOU are not going to be able to control this. 
YOU have showed her YOU are SUB to her wishes, so you can NEVER reclaim a DOM position in her eyes!!!!!!!

I'm sory man, but this is a done deal unles you SHOCK her with extreme consequences.
And from the sound of it, you don't have what it takes.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You must decide, man.
She wants your permission and participation in her become the hole many men use. She love to be used by many. Her main fetish is gangbangs, she crossed the line between fantasy and reality and you went with her.
Once she tasted what she liked she won't give up, ever.
With or with out our permission, with or without your acknowledge she wil become what she wants to be.
Going along with her being a swinger couple will only delay the inevitable. She's not only into swinging, spicing things a little. She mixes it with the BDSM lifestyle she's going for it full force. Thw swinging is not the main objetive is just the source of dominant men she craves. You are not enough for it. Nobody is. You can't stop it. She's gone. Too far gone. She has been scalating for years. Very soon she will get desensitized with what she have now, even with the "normal" swinging.

This is the tufure
Should I be worried?

The most worrisome side of it is your children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> Not sure I understand what you are saying. I don't take care of her - she is financially independent. We split the family responsibilities well. She is the most non-self absorbed person I know - she's a giver. She's certainly not entitled. Please clarify


I mean that she has now decided that this (freedom to do whoever she wants) is what she wants out of life. While still getting to be married and have all the benefits of marriage (legal, financial, social). She wants you to accept it. And she wants to dictate terms. Sounds pretty self-serving to me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And btw, from what I've learned over the years, wanting to be that extreme (submissive) is usually indicative of bigger issues; you may want to look into that more before you decide. And it probably has something to do with her being a Giver, if she's that MUCH of a giver (another extreme).


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

What she did was wrong! She has had multiple affairs and you see this as just swinging or her going through some hippie stage?

You did not agree to this, you didn't know it was happening. She lied to you and deceived you. She's had, I bet, unprotected sex with multiple partners. THIS IS NOT OK. You can't just forgive her and move on, like it's no big deal, this is a BIG deal as you are learning.

You are in shock, your hurting, your confused, your partly blaming yourself. She chose to do this, NOT you. 

Is this the life style you want? if not, and you stay with her, then it sounds like you are in for a rough ride.

Sounds like you need to decide what YOU want to do here. What kind of future do you want for your family? is this the life style you want?
You know it's the one she wants.

Also, as someone mentioned here, you should get tested for STD's.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You don't have to be into bd&sm to be a alpha male. You can be a dom with out all that other crap.

I like the way OldWolf thinks.....man up or some other man will/has.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

the guy said:


> Have you listened to the recording together? Have the both of discussed how hurtful they are to you?
> 
> Bottom line here she wants to swing and you don't!
> 
> ...



Yes - we listened to it together when I confronted her. It's hard to explain how that went but I'll quote a few lines.

her: u know I've been bad - inviting u over like this
him 1: yes you're a naughty **** aren't u
her: yes I am
him 1: u need to be spanked
her: yes
him 2: ur husband won't do this to you will he
her: don't do that
him 2: do what
her: talk bad about my husband

later on

him 1: we need your husband to be here next time
her: i know, i know
him 2: u need to tell him about this before it blows up on you
her: i know. but he won't understand
him 1: once he sees how much pleasure u get out of it
her: he just doesn't understand all this


I guess I need to figure out the lifestyle i do want. I'm not against swinging but I really only want her - not someone elses wife or gf.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

[Sigh]

I've said it before and it's worth repeating:

* Nothing good ever comes out of letting some other dude fvck your wife.*​


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> She wants "A"
> 
> You want "B"
> 
> ...


Thanks for this - compromise is the word I've been seraching for all day.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> She is going to be used anyway some guy wants her to be. Thats why she is into it. She will meet a dom thats going to push, and thast push may be hooking for him., or letting his friends use her.


It's what she craves. The swingin is not the end but means. It's what she believes it's acceptable to you. If you don't agree to take chargue into make her being used she will find out who can do the work.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I hope your children were out with friends while she was letting people come home to use her.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Okay, man. I was never into the lifestyle personally, and I don't know nothing about the BDSM kink, but I had a few women try to recruit me back in the day for swinging and a couple more who wanted me to bang them while their husbands watched and I've had friends and some prodigal close family in it. So I know a little bit about it. Despite what you hear from the promoters, it usually crashes and burns. The successfully married swingers who stay that way are the exceptions that prove the rule and when you ask around you find out that when they first started swinging they were married, just not to each other. Understand? 

Now having said that, you may be one of the successful swinging couples. I wouldn't chance it, but I can tell you how to increase your, very slim, odds of not having your playtime blow up in your face, which in my opinion it already has, even by swinger's standards. Any long term swinger out there would call your wife a cheater, not a swinger.

So wife has probably screwed more people since you've been married than you have in you whole life, am I right? That's the way solo swinging works out for the girls and the Average Married Chump (AMC™).

While you chew on that, let me ask you some questions:

how many women, not counting your wife, have you nailed since you started these games? Don't pad the number, I'm trying to teach you some simple truths.

What do you know about PEA, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin? 

She's been doing this for 6 months, but when did you start with the sex club stuff?

Was this all your idea in the beginning? I know, but there are always outliers, so I had to ask.

You weren't getting enough, so you thought this would be a good way to stoke her up enough and you'd be happy even if most of the rest of her increased libido was aimed at others. Right? Don't worry about it. That's kind of the road clueless guys go down.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> Not sure I understand what you are saying. I don't take care of her - she is financially independent. We split the family responsibilities well.
> 
> She is the most non-self absorbed person I know - she's a giver.
> 
> ...


You say she's financially independent. I assume that the two of you have separate finances and that you both divide up the bills? If so, then why don't you have joint accounts? I think separate finances take you a step closer to a failed marriage. IMHO, it adds division into the marriage. I also bet you are one of the many who feel that you and your wife should respect privacy of e-mails, FB, etc and that you probably have pangs of guilt for using the VAR?

You stated that your wife will do ALMOST anything to save this marriage. I think I know the answer, but what is the one or 2 things she refuses to do to save the marriage?

Is your wife so strong in her convictions that she'd be proud of her daughters if they go behind their husband's back to have extramarital affairs with multiple men and women? Or would she think her sons would deserve it if their wives went behind their backs to have extramarital affairs? Would she be proud of her children if they decided to sleep around with no thought of their own children for the sake of pursuing their own selfish pleasures?


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

Acabado said:


> It's what she craves. The swingin is not the end but means. It's what she believes it's acceptable to you. If you don't agree to take chargue into make her being used she will find out who can do the work.


It's one thing we talked about - me being totally in charge of her sex-life. making her do things etc.

She has always wanted me to be more like that.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> This is about being married to a woman whose moral compass is different from mine but one that I am willing to stay married to.


You see, you are still NOT seeing how serious this is.
There is NO wiggle room here.
You are looking at this thru rose colored glasses.

She is bringing scum into the VERY HOUSE your kids eat, sleep, and call home.
People are walking, crawling screwing, pissing and everything else in the very place those three innocents call home. And you worried about her moral compass.
Do you actually think a true dom is going to respect her marriage, when she don't ??
Do you thinks he is going to respect your kids when she don't ??
Do you think he will respect YOU when she don't ??

To a true DOM, YOU are a sub also for letting her do this !!!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Dude, its over.
> If she is a sub, then your marriage is DOOMED !!!!!
> ...YOU have showed her YOU are SUB to her wishes, so you can NEVER reclaim a DOM position in her eyes!!!!!!!


That right there. Exactly. This isn't ordinary swinging.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Didn't her suggest dogging already? It's the kind of mission she wants you to make her obey.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> She is bringing scum into the VERY HOUSE your kids eat, sleep, and call home....
> To a true DOM, YOU are a sub also for letting her do this !!!!


Yeah, how old are these kids? Where are they during the fun and games?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, for one thing to stay married, I'd be demanding that you attend counseling together, to get to the root of her self-destructiveness. If you don't address it, it will destroy your marriage eventually.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You say she's financially independent. I assume that the two of you have separate finances and that you both divide up the bills? If so, then why don't you have joint accounts? I think separate finances take you a step closer to a failed marriage. IMHO, it adds division into the marriage. I also bet you are one of the many who feel that you and your wife should respect privacy of e-mails, FB, etc and that you probably have pangs of guilt for using the VAR?
> 
> You stated that your wife will do ALMOST anything to save this marriage. I think I know the answer, but what is the one or 2 things she refuses to do to save the marriage?
> 
> Is your wife so strong in her convictions that she'd be proud of her daughters if they go behind their husband's back to have extramarital affairs with multiple men and women? Or would she think her sons would deserve it if their wives went behind their backs to have extramarital affairs? Would she be proud of her children if they decided to sleep around with no thought of their own children for the sake of pursuing their own selfish pleasures?


Financially we are both fine - together or separtely

She doesn't want to continue to live the same boring life we have had togther. She wants more excitement from me. More surprises. And yes sexual adventures - with me but including others.

Our first trip to a club about a year ago involved us watching - it grew from there. I opened pandoras box. 

But who am I to say how she can and cannot think - I can't make her not want certain things.

I truely beelive she is sorry and will not see these people again if thats what I want.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

turnera said:


> Well, for one thing to stay married, I'd be demanding that you attend counseling together, to get to the root of her self-destructiveness. If you don't address it, it will destroy your marriage eventually.


Frankly I think the thermometer popped on butterball already... One of the OP's comments was that he wasn't concerned about his wife sleeping around - only that she did it behind his back. It's not going to end well and there are 3 kids in the mix to boot. Both of these 2 are too fvcking selfish for their own good. We already know the OP has had an extramarital affair too - even if his wife knew and sanctioned it he did. This is just depraved all around. Three kids...too bad there wasn't a good emoticon for weeping...


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> She is the most non-self absorbed person I know - she's a giver.
> 
> She's certainly not entitled.
> 
> Please clarify


How in the hell can she be so non self absorbed if she is offering to make it up to you in self serving ways ??

But you're right about being a giver

But wrong about not being entitled. If she isn't entitled, she would NOT be doing this behind your back.

Look, do what you want, but don't ask for help if you won't accept the advice.
Go to Doc Cool, or a **** site. We deal with 2 in a marriage, not multitudes.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I find it interesting that she still has some respect for you but her addiction is bad.

Things you also need from her;

How she contacting these poeple? and preventing access to these dealers

What has she done to prevent them from coming over again?

She needs to write a no contact letter that you read and you send.

Your wife has answered the question that she does want to stay married, now you have to tell her how to stay married to you and the boundries that this marriage now has.


I mean you guys are heading off on a discussion about how you guys are going to move on with out addressing the issue of preventive maintence.

She's gaslighting you by talking about the why"s and the wants....when you should be talking about the deciet and the cheating.


Lets set the lifestyle and fetish aside and look at the cheating.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> Financially we are both fine - together or separtely
> 
> She doesn't want to continue to live the same boring life we have had togther. She wants more excitement from me. More surprises. And yes sexual adventures - with me but including others.
> 
> ...


What!? You can't be serious. You're her husband. You have a claim on her and she has a claim on you. True, you can't force her to want you and only you, but as her husband you can insist on it. If she does not comply with this wish, then what? Do you let her have her adventures if you know who she's doing it with, times and if you meet them prior to? Or do you keep your dignity and end this marriage if she doesn't commit 100% to you and you only?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> I guess I need to figure out the lifestyle i do want. I'm not against swinging but I really only want her - not someone elses wife or gf.


The process of destroying your soul to suite her may buy you some time. but, in the end it won't save this marriage. 

Hang onto denial as long as you can handle it, but don't go down with this ship. I don't think you can grasp the price of what your considering.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The problem is because your wife has chosen to be other people's submissive she has chosen to surrender her place as your wife. What I mean is that she has give her loyalty and trust to these others and they have taken it had used it to play with her.

And she has welcomed it, and gone back wanting more.

This isn't about openness to sex. It 100% about betrayal and loyalty.

She decided to welcome into your home these others.

She surrendered herself and her freedom during this to these other people. They has complete control of her, and her total loyalty.

Even now that you've caught her in her lies and betrayal, she didn't agree she was wrong and cone back to being loyal to the marriage.

Instead she defiantly told you that these people who she has submitted herself to are more deserving of her trust and loyalty than you are. 

Inessence she won't return to being you wife, friend, partner. She will continue to be theirs under their control and dominance, and she will be at home with you when they don't have a need for her.

It's common for masters to limit/restrict the sexual activities of their slaves. So for instance be prepared fir your wife to be told not to have sex with you,or to limit her contact to certain activities only. She'll also be told to keep herself clean and ready for them. You will get what they allow.

And that's the terms your cheating submissive wife has dictated to you. Notice how she is submissive to them, but to you she sets terms. Your hell has only begun. Just wait until they decide she's going to accompany them as their pay thing for weekends while you sit home. Just wait until they arrange to loan her out.

Now wha can you do about it?

First, step up and refuse to share her. If she needs a Dom, it must be you. If not you then divorce her now because she will end up with a Dom who won't share her with you.

Exposé these people she cheated with to the community. Frankly good people even in the poly and swinging world will not be party to cheating. Yes there are people who are in that world who will cheat as you found out, but those people are the scumbags of the community. Exposé them to the community as cheaters and enablers of cheating.

Cheaterville.com is applicable to swingers and poly too.

Don't be passive and don't try to compromise here, you will be getting even more of the shaft than you already have gotten.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Again this is not about her sexual needs, its about her deciet. Sure her sex addiction has an impact but going behind your back is the issue at hand.

There are all kinds of reasons to cheat most do it for the validation and attension, and yes the emotional need that isn't being met, but in this case its the sexual need.

All these excuse to cheat do not justify the deciet.....bottom line!


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

1. You didn't open Pandora's Box, " She chose to cheat" Did she tell you before she did this that she was going to do it? NO! Guess she does not respect you enough to let you know she was going to do it. Why was she so secretive? Because she knew it was CHEATING and was WRONG. She is now manipulating you.

2. If you are not into letting others have sex with your wife and you cannot phantom having sex with another while you have vows to your wife this Open marriage is not going to work. You will be doing something that you internally don't agree with and it will slowly destroy you.

3. Man up and let your wife know that she has gone too far and that this is not the type of marriage you want.

4. Old Wolf has it right, If you won't accept advise don't ask for help.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tnhusband said:


> I admit I was very involved in opening the door.
> 
> I'm not opposed to polyamorous relationships - it's the cheating that hurts the most. not her having sex with others.
> 
> As for the details - I don't want this to become some titillation thread on the internet. She's being having sex with multiple partners - men and women and couples. mostly involving BDSM which I know she loves but I struggle to get into - just not my thing.



To the people here on TAM, who are betrayed, this is far from titillating. It is, in fact the opposite..Most Bs trigger when reading such posts


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> The problem is because your wife has chosen to be other people's submissive she has chosen to surrender her place as your wife. What I mean is that she has give her loyalty and trust to these others and they have taken it had used it to play with her.
> 
> And she has welcomed it, and gone back wanting more.
> 
> ...


So your saying the only real way to save the marriage is for be to become the Dom that she's being needing?

I must admit the thought of punishing her and making her do things FOR ME is intriguing.

What have I got to lose at this point.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> What have I got to lose at this point.


Absolutely nothing at this point.

If you've hit rock bottom, there is only one way left to go and that is up. Unless you're just gonna lie down there and stay there.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

Your wife is no longer your wife. You sold your marriage and your soul a year ago and now you and your family have to pay the price and the bill will keep getting higher and higher as you let your wife keep pushing boundaries.

It was chilling as I went back to read your thread history. If she won't quit at least do what it takes to save yourself and your children who will only be further harmed if you don't.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> So your saying the only real way to save the marriage is for be to become the Dom that she's being needing?
> 
> I must admit the thought of punishing her and making her do things FOR ME is intriguing.
> 
> What have I got to lose at this point.


IMHO, this is not a good solution at all. Maybe it gets her to focus on you in the short term, but what are the costs to you by following her down her path? It would be more of a "reward" for bad behavior.

She needs to recognize that what she has is a sickness. Again, IMHO, she needs psychological help to wipe this S&M fantasy from her mind completely. It puts you and your family in danger by her seeking out strangers to dominate her. Sooner or later, you wouldn't do it right and she'd have to go outside the marriage to get her fix.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Shaggy you know the same things I know.
him1 was setting the stage for humiliating hubby
him2 was following the game plan, talking about how much pleasure he will see she getting.
If he don't go along, then he MUST NOT want her to have pleasure.
Can you say divide and conquer !!

So I'm going to say this ONE moe time.
" These ppl see YOU as a SUB dude ".
She is getting used by multi guys at the same time in YOUR house. 
How much longer before 5 or 6 or 8 at a time ??


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

If you relent and do the poly route....*Which I don't recommend!!*, but if you do the people she has been cheating with are off limits!!! All that would do is condone the cheating!!

Beware though....you are opening the door for your wife to find another man she may find better than you!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So it appears you are going to try to meet her needs...her sexual needs, but what about her problem with deciet?

I think it great your trying to meet her but you seem to think it will prevent her from cheating again years from now when she tell you that you are to rough and needs more intimacy...thats what happened to me.

I know it sounds like you can't when for lossing, the point is she has an issue with not telling you the truth and that is concerning.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Polyamory and swinging don't mean cheating...Your wife cheated. She would be bashed even on those forums..Opening up the marriage does not mean sleeping with whoever she can behind your back. 

Cheating means she already lost respect for you..a long time back.. It also means you cannot trust her for her words. For every day, this six months, she lied to your face while doing other men in your house. She already detached much more than you realize. her feeling towards you have changed . She is not you. She changed.

If she could cheat on you, lying wouldn't be a problem. That you had to resort to VAR her to find out she was cheating means your relationship is far more broken that you realize.....

And next time, she is unsatisfied, will she cheat on you again behind you back. She doesn't care much about what you feel. You still think o her as the same woman when you met. She changed. people change. She is now a different woman with different priorities and ethics. The faster you realize, the better. You will never reach her expectation and add to the that a fear of your wife leaving you if you don't perform to standards!!That would be hell. 

Imagine you cheating on her because she wouldn't do a sex act you wanted. Would you do that ? At some level, blaming her cheating on you not into the BDSM thing is abusive!!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tnhusband said:


> So your saying the only real way to save the marriage is for be to become the Dom that she's being needing?
> 
> I must admit the thought of punishing her and making her do things FOR ME is intriguing.
> 
> What have I got to lose at this point.


Self respect, if you don't do this properly


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

tnhusband said:


> What have I got to lose at this point.


All that you _are_ today.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Self respect, if you don't do this properly


What would you suggest to do this properly?

I want us to stay together but i don't want to be toegether if either of us are unhappy.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

tnhusband said:


> What would you suggest to do this properly?
> 
> I want us to stay together but i don't want to be toegether if either of us are unhappy.


What if your happiness and her happiness are not the same? What if she wants other people? What if you dont? Do you do what she wants just to satisfy her so that you can stay together? What happens then? You put your own happiness aside to please her. How long do you think that is going to last before you become bitter and resent her?

If you wanna be a swinger, more power to you. I cant imagine how watching someone else have their way with your wife would ever make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside!!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Can you be a complete ass to her ???
Can you disregard her feelings forever ??
Can you actually take pleasure causing her pain ??

If you especially can't do the last one, you will fail.

These guys don't care if she suffer, they don't love her. they are only concerned with inflecting pain and their sexual gratification.
Thats one reason she is attracted to them.

Right now they are playing at satifying her, but once they have you two where they want, its a whole different ball game.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

You say that you and your wife are financially independent - is it safe to assume that the two of you are 'rich'? Not that I have anything against rich people - because rich is relative, and I aspire to join your ranks. But it sounds like you and your wife have more money than sense. Why would you want that kind of behavior around your kids? She has defiled your home and you seem alright with it. WTF?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> You say that you and your wife are financially independent - is it safe to assume that the two of you are 'rich'? Not that I have anything against rich people - because rich is relative, and I aspire to join your ranks. But it sounds like you and your wife have more money than sense. Why would you want that kind of behavior around your kids? She has defiled your home and you seem alright with it. WTF?


She has to let you know all the people she did this with, write nc letters std test of course and then she has to out herself to both families. DEMAND THIS! I for one would move on but everyone has a different level of humiliation one can put up with. Not trying to be an @rse you're hurting, but there have to be consequences for her actions.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> People:
> 
> OP has said that he's OK with the sex.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead:

In that case, I'll gracefully exit stage left.

Good luck!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So you guys talked about the recording and it was strange, the both of you don't know what to make of it.

I don't know why you guys can't communicate what the feeling the both of you had while confronting her about her deceit.

I'm curious to know what kind of response your wife had with regards to this deceit. Not about her sexual appitiete.

I just don't understand why lie, when she could have told you what she wanted. I mean you guys can openly discuss swinging and progressing in that life style, then this happens. 

I find it odd the one day the both of you are in an open marriage then the next day she closes up and you have to investigate.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mahike said:


> I am sorry you are hear but it sounds like you may have been involved with opening the door.
> 
> I am going to assume you want to be the only other person in the marriage. No other paymate male or female right?
> 
> ...


Any householder who leaves the front door open all day whilst they are out really should not express surprise when they find stray cats and dogs have just wandered in.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@MattMatt, what about the spiders and flies....all kinds of different thing can get in if you leave the front door open...even snakes!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And at what point is she going to decide that enough is enough? When one or more of her Carnal Knowlege buddies decide they want to involve youir children? 

Time you get her the mental health evaluation and treatment she requires. IMO.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

the guy said:


> @MattMatt, what about the spiders and flies....all kinds of different thing can get in if you leave the front door open...even snakes!


Some poisonous ones, too, I'll bet.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Says who?
> 
> You both attend an 'adult' club and wonder why your wife has sex with other people?
> 
> You both need to be tested for STDs/HIV.


And there's nothing "snappy" about this??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

hookares said:


> And there's nothing "snappy" about this??


Nothing snappy about it at all. 

I was merely asking him a question. The answer to which, I feel, will, once he has given it due consideration, enlighten him on what went wrong and why it went wrong and hopefully, how he can address it to his and her real satisfaction.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"This is about being married to a woman whose moral compass is different from mine but one that I am willing to stay married to."

Sort of why Zebras and Elephants don't get it on!!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

And of course, she's lying, as the average cheater. She's has been betraying you way more you'll ever find out. Cheater's handbook

When you caught her chatting in BDSM sites she was forced to confess she was thinking on spice this for 4 years (Liar, she alwasy had that fetish, she was already doing stuff online, she was busted, she gave you the more patalable version). Cheater's handbook

When she pushed your to open the already spiced BDSM-style marraige and you finnalt agreed to go to that swinger she likely already was physical with other guys). Cheater's handbook

Likely she never stopped doing things on your back since then.

Now you caught her again, horribly. Of course again she lied. Cheater's handbook
But is she remorseful? Is she asking you another chance, stopping destructive behavior, trying whatever it's needed to regain your trust? Nope, She's asking you to go further in her fantasy, to embrace her preferred lifestyle fully so she won't need to go behind your back. Liar, unlikely she'll stop going in your back, she's not remorseful at all. Cheater's handbook.

She has this compulsion and nothing is going to stop her.
I believe it's a complete error to submit to any of her demands because her final goal is not yours. Until now she never gave up anything for you, for the marriage. At the contrary, she pushes even more in order to fullfil her fetish. 

I don't think she will stay no matter how much to become a master/owner unless it involves allowing several men using her (That's her fetish). She will call you weak for not sharing her that way.

Since a couple of years she pushes the boundarie further away, you adapt, bargain, she pushes more... rinse and repeat.
Play it to the end. How do you see yourself and your children two years ahead?

Also, she's escalating, I'm sure she doesn't believe is anything wrong with her. Shine light into her scalation, tell her to play it to the end. How she see herself in the future?

The wrose is you still sees it with those pink colored glasses: Embracing the hippy lifestyle?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just one small point, here. Hippies are not -in general- into gross sexual violence and deviant behaviour. (Light bondage is excepted, here, OK?)

But here's something you might like to consider... people who are into the whole dom, sub and whip 'til bleeding scene are, in the main, sexual deviants.

You'll see some of 'em listed in Megan's Law lists in the USA... Just make sure she keeps thjem away from the children, OK?

"Klaaskids -- Megan's Law Legislation in All 50 States"


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My advice if you actually want to stay with her, and honestly you need to read my earlier post and really think about the choice she made to cheat.

F you choose to try again with her:

1. You become her Dom. Her owner. She must earn your collar. Do not just give it make her earn it.
2. Part of her earning her collar requires her pedge of loyalty to you.
3. She must give you the names and details of who she cheated with, how they connected, what they did,
4. You will expose each of her cheating partners publically for what they did with your wife. Post them o n cheaterville.com and on fetlife as well as to any swinger groups locally they belong to.
Don't warn your wife you are doing this. If she finds out and confronts you, you will know she is still cheating, if she is truly loyal to you as her dom and husband it won't matter to her.
5. The exposure will hopefully sever any relationships she maintains with these cheaters. If done right, she should be persona non grata with them. Thus serves you well by making her expensive to cheat with.

6.you are her Dom, exclusively. She serves you and will be punished and possibly humiliated if she disappoints you.
7. She will report to you where she is at all times and who she is with. She surrenders all passwords, and will not delete texts.
8. You will put a key logger on the computer and you will put VARs in her car and your house.

Here's the thing. The trash she was cheating with might come looking for more. She might also not be coming clean on all of them.

So, she will tie a polygraph now and in 4 months.

Frankly, if she is a true sub she should be in heaven if you do the above.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Blessing,,,, curse,,," may you live in interesting times ".


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Read Shaggy's post again and again !!!
As her master, these are YOUR rules and boundries.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Read Shaggy's post again and again !!!
> As her master, these are YOUR rules and boundries.


What you and Shaggy are saying is not far from what she has been suggesting for the past year. She wants me to stop treating her like a princess on a pedastel and dominate her. Not just sexually but in other parts of our lives.

I guess my eyes are now wide open.

We had a long talk last night about the details of what she did and why. She is taking 100% of the blame and is begging me to give her what she needs. I told her we would only stay together is she promised to go to MC with me. We are going to find one today.

One thing she did that helped ease my pain was to assure me this wasn't about humiliating me. She admits some her fantasies are dark but needs me to be more open to at least talking about them without judging her. She thinks I have shut her down during those conversations in the past which is why she stopped talking to me. I can see that.

We ended the conversation with me getting myself mad at her and then having rough sex. To see her so submissive to me is going to take some getting used to.

She woke me up this morning with a cup of coffee in bed - that never happens. I feel sad about what happened but feel much better having discussed everything and having the plan of going to MC.

I told her I want to take her to the BDSM club this weeked and show everyone there that I am her husband and master. That made her happy and excited. I told her no contact with any of the people from the past. She did point out that none of them knew she was cheating but thought she was in an open relationship. I don't think I have to worry about them but some will be at the club.

We talked about re-inventing ourselves together. I don't want to become something I'm not just to stay married and make her happy. Either does she. But we think we can do a better job of meeting in the middle.

I know I might be way off here - I might be an idiot. But I see and feel deep remorse from her. Her willing to go to MC is huge.
I also have all her passwords. 100% transparency is what we both need right now. Both ways.

Thanks to everyone for their input/posts - it's really helped me think through all this.

I know it's early days - there will be ups and downs.

She likes the rollercoaster. I like the merry go-round. We both like the ferris wheel.........


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm glad you guys are meeting in the middle. Just remember as you guy discuss this your sexual life style is not the issue, her deceit is.

So thats were you guys seem to get side tracked. I think she keeps bring up her sexual needs, and sidetracks the deceit.

Make sure you guys look for a MC that specializes in infidelity.

I get the fact that her excuse was her shuting down and going else were to meet her sexual needs, but there is no excuse for the lies and the cheating....

The important thing is you guys are finaly talking now your wife needs to go learn the tools to be honest and loyal to her new master.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Also its important to let your "group" know that what your wife was doing was not being open but lied and decieving. These "groups' premote openness and honesty (for what thats worth) but all the same she needs to be exposed.

Even though some of these folks were unaware (which I find hard to believe) they need to be informed that can no longer contact your wife with out going thru her master first.

For all you vanilla folks thats the best I can come with when it come to NC.........

I'm going to be a little judgemental now. You both need to get out of this life style...its just not healthy for the marriage. I have a feeling you guys will be struggling in the future, but with some counseling this marriage might beable to get thru the next bumb in the road and make no mistake it is coming.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to deal with the people she cheated with.

It isn't enough for you to show up with her on a leash.

You need to expose that she cheated with them, to them including a nc.

And from the tape you know at least some of them knew she was cheating.

So your exposing them, and her for what they did for 6 months is essential for your marriage recovering, and for you truly establishing that you are her master and he is not available to anyone else.

I know it's tempting to not face them and let it slide as she is acting like she is committed to the marriage. Do not let it go, it removes her dealing with what she did, and it makes you a weak person in her eyes, and masters are not weak.

So expose, and require her to write NC letters announcing she is close for any further contact.

As for the people she cheated with. Even if you later decide to include others in your sex life. The people she cheated with are forever excluded. No contact, no texts, no chit chat, no sex. They are forever excluded from her life.

In the swinging community and the badm community cheating is not OK. Not by the cheaters and not by the people who go long with the "we have an open marriage" lie. If the only contact is when the spouse is at work or away, then they know the person is cheating.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You need to deal with the people she cheated with.
> 
> It isn't enough for you to show up with her on a leash.
> 
> ...


I'm kinky as anyone else but I just don't see longterm success with this lifestyle fulltime, ehh maybe I'm an old fart I don't know.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No contact with the poeple that she deceived you with is a great consequence for her deceit for both your wife and those folks.

Again I find it hard to believe that these folks didn't know your wife was deceiving you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

tom67 said:


> I'm kinky as anyone else but I just don't see longterm success with this lifestyle fulltime, ehh maybe I'm an old fart I don't know.


:iagree:

Bit in the same breath who are we to judge, but just advise with our own experience.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Bit in the same breath who are we to judge, but just advise with our own experience.


True very true it all comes back to the deception and the lies to each their own though.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

tom67 said:


> I'm kinky as anyone else but I just don't see longterm success with this lifestyle fulltime, ehh maybe I'm an old fart I don't know.


I agree with the sharing being an ultimate death to relationships.

But, look some people get off on someone else being I'm control. They like being managed, and directed. They feel safe, yet excited and sexual all at the sametime.

I have no problem with that and if that's the dynamic of the marriage, then ok.

Cheating is betrayal, and you do not betray those you love.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

After the NC stuff I'd punish her with 6 months of *no internet activity at all* beyond some basiscs until she earn it back. No monitoring dayly, no porn, no feedback, no more "fixes" except what she get from you.
Just as a part of the punishment/training. She needs to feel you are the one at chargue of her. At all levels.

I read months ago in a female submissive blog how she was asking forgiveness to her readers because she was off line for 6 months because some transgression to his dom rules she broke.

Educate yourself, think about how you are going to fulfill/satisfy her submissive side without sharing her (unless it's also a turn on for you, obviously).

Her cheating needs it's pusnishment. A huge price.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

How long can you pretend as a dom?
You are going to get tired of this soon.
Actually both of you need severe IC/Psychological evaluation. Having fantasies is normal but trying to make it real is almost always too dangerous. 
Enabling them in the pretend that they love is insanity. JMO.
When you get tired of acting as dom then she will bring others to your home.
I am only worried about your children. At least one parent should be able to guide the children in the right path. 
May god be with them when some snakes with the hardest venom enter in to your home.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Whats interesting is in a year your wife will come up to you and ask you why all the ropes, clamps, and metal racks. "whay can't we have a soft sentual love making session with kissing"

Again talking form experience..LOL


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

sex is a way to show love, intimacy and care we have for our loved ones, i dont know how you are going to do this when you are raping your wife or forcing her to do something painful as a dom.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Whats funny is in a year your wife will come up to you and ask you why all the ropes, clamps, and metal racks. "whay can't we have a soft sentual love making session with kissing"
> 
> Again talking form experience..LOL


Devo - Whip It (Video) - YouTube


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

the guy said:


> Whats interesting is in a year your wife will come up to you and ask you why all the ropes, clamps, and metal racks. "*whay can't we have a soft sentual love making session with kissing"*
> 
> Again talking form experience..LOL


By then he might have become a complete dom and normal sex may have been out of his mind.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> sex is a way to show love, intimacy and care we have for our loved ones, i dont know how you are going to do this when you are raping your wife or forcing her to do something painful as a dom.


She likes it!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> sex is a way to show love, intimacy and care we have for our loved ones, i dont know how you are going to do this when you are raping your wife or forcing her to do something painful as a dom.


Well lets say today she thinks she likes it!

Something in her is not right and MC is a start, lets pray that leads to IC and this need for pain and humiliation gets fixed, and that her daddy issues get healed.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Well lets say today she thinks she likes it!
> 
> Something in her is not right and MC is a start, lets pray that leads to IC and this need for pain and humiliation gets fixed, and that her daddy issues get healed.


:iagree:


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

TN, I'm going in another direction now.

All this talk of her needs, lets no forget THREE VERY IMPORTANT factors in this lifestyle.

With her wanting you to lord over her like the taliban, you must be very careful how much your kids see of this in everyday life.
You never said their sex, but would you want your sons and daughters thinking this is normal or healthy ???

I worry about her continued escalation encroaching and impacting their lives. Where EXACTLY outside the bedroom does she see this going ???
Now is the time to see exactly what see wants out of this.
Does it means she turn over ALL monies to your control ???
Women in Iran and some others, don't have much freedom outside the home.
You starting to see now ???
You guys have MUCH to resolve before final decisions are made.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Tn. Don't crawl back to your wife out of fear of losing her. You are holding the cards here and should demand what you want.

She may like being used, especially by others, but only because she has someone like you who really cares for her. The second you leave her, and she had to face the real world on her own, she would crumble and crawl back to you.


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## tnhusband (Mar 28, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> TN, I'm going in another direction now.
> 
> All this talk of her needs, lets no forget THREE VERY IMPORTANT factors in this lifestyle.
> 
> ...


It's really not like this. Outside the bedroom she is pretty much a normal wife and mother. But she admitted in MC that she gets more aroused the more in charge I am outside of the bedroom. Inside the bedroom she likes it taken more to the extreme.

I'm not 100% sold on our MC - she seems kind of weird to both of us. I felt like she was focussing on hearing about my wifes sexual needs and exploits. My wife even said afterwards she felt that the MC was flirting with her. 

But it was a first visit so I understand she was gathering info and trying to make us at ease with her. We are going to give her another try next week.

Her homework for us this week was for us to both open up about our fantasies - the ones we have never shared?? Communicate more. And made her pledge no contact with any sexual partners.

I asked her if she thought my wife was a sex addict and she emphatically said no??

Early days.

My wife has been very romantic and giving. She seems remorseful and guilty about cheating. I have used some of my anger towards her in the bedroom - which seems to be a good thing for both of us. I do feel good today. She's singing in the shower!

Thanks everyone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is she seeing an IC? She really needs to. You should be demanding it.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

What did I just read?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Does your wife feel like alot of folks flirt with her?

or

Is this rare for her to feel like she is being flirted on?


I ask cuz its unhealthy to have a MC that has this kind of influence. I suggest you have another go with current MC and keep this in mind. Carefully watch the MC actions towards your wife.

Also (very important) when the subject comes up about your wife's sexual exploits again, ask the MC that you would preferr that we focus on the deceit and betrayal issues.(enless you still have question with regard to how much you know, even then, 5 day of VAR recordings should have told you all you need to know)

Just like in the begining of this thread it is very easy to turn this thing into some titilating erotic story. Do not let your MC have her own agenda, and clarly ask what MC agenda is if you have questions and if after the 2nd session, you are both uncomfortable... go find another one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the issue at hand is not the sexual needs of your wife, you clearly understand them....its the betrayal and lies your wife has/had!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

the guy said:


> Just like in the begining of this thread it is very easy to turn this thing into some titilating erotic story. Do not let your MC have her own agenda, and clarly ask what MC agenda is if you have questions and if after the 2nd session, you are both uncomfortable... go find another one.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but the issue at hand is not the sexual needs of your wife, you clearly understand them....its the betrayal and lies your wife has/had!


:iagree:

Deal with the betrayal. Beyond some specifics it's still infidelity. Read the newbies thread.
NC, transparence, find out the truth, remorse, hard boundaires, consequences...
Shockingly if you follow the "normal" advice you will be "at chargue". More a win win in your case than others becasue she likes being micromanaged, to surrender her free will to you.

You need to completely erase your "Mister nice guy" side.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey TN any update? Have you caught her cheating again? I'm very afraid that this is what you will end up finding out. That it wasn't just being submissive but her also having many partners that she wanted.

The problem with a lot of subs is that they aren't really giving themselves to their master. Instead they use the master to justify their actions by saying its the master who made them have sex with many people, instead if the truth which is that the master knew the sub would leave them if the master didn't act as a manager for arranging and running the subs cheating.

I hope I'm wrong and you find a way , but give her long history of cheating with groups, I just don't see it.


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