# What should I do



## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

Hi, so, I'm well aware that I can't be the first in this kind of situation. So I'm interested to hear what others in my position have done and how they find it.

So, to give you the background. My Wife and I have been together for 17 years and married for 10 years. We have two daughters (8 and 6).

Our relationship has been rocky, due to the following:

*Her Temper*
My W has an extreme temper (to the point that her family gave me lots of warnings about it when we first got together). Her anger can be triggered by anything, a wrong word, me buying the wrong kind of bread...anything.
Her anger is extreme and I've always felt that it would be the same level if I had missed a spot with the vacuuming or had slept with her sister.
Her anger has, a few times, spilled over to violence, in one extreme example, she repeatedly kicked me on the floor until she broke one of my ribs. I should add (and I'm certainly not defending her actions) that she's only become violent 3 times in 17 years.
I must add that, when she has lost her temper, there are no lengths to which she will not go in what she does or what she says to make me feel awful. Some examples are 'She wishes that she had never met me', 'she and the children would be better off if I was dead'.
I must also add that I have never ever heard her apologise, no matter how bad she gets.

*Intimacy & Desire*
She has never been a very intimate person, I've always known that and for the first years of our relationship I was ok with it.
I was over the moon when we got together. I should point out that I've never had any level of intimacy with any other woman ever in my life. When she and I got together I just thought this was the one girl on earth who would be with me. For years I felt terrified that she would leave me and it would be all over.
I've always desired her, and to this day think that she is clever and very good looking and a still find her attractive. I should add that we do have sex (about once a month) but there is a very limited number of _things_ that she will do with me, which includes kissing, she doesn't like to kiss me unless she needs to.
More recently I've been becoming upset about her lack of displaying desire toward me and I did speak to her about it. After 3 days of rage from her, she finally said (as she has done before) that she is not a 'kissy & cuddly person' and I just need to accept it or leave. She also said that she's never been sexually attracted to anyone (including movie stars, pop stars, etc..), which actually made me feel slightly better (i.e. it is her, not me).
I feel now that the idea of someone being attracted to me is something that I have and will never experience. But then, when I was younger, I never expected to experience that anyway, so I don't know why I am expecting it now.

*Should I leave?*
I have considered leaving her but this leaves me with two dilemmas:

1. The Children - I _adore_ my girls and the thought of being a 'weekend dad' feels like the end of the world. Currently I make sure I see them every day, I regularly help out in their school and am a member of the school's PTA. I want to be involved in their life as much as possible while they are still young enough, otherwise I'll find that they are suddenly teenagers (who don't want their daddy hanging around) and I will have missed them growing up. 

2. Financial - We live in London, which as you may or may not know, is a ludicrously expensive place to live. If I move out, my wife's pay will not cover our mortgage and our join pay will certainly not cover accommodation for two houses/flats(apartments). If I move out then I will need to either pay a good chunk of my income to her, to keep the house, meaning that I'll have to move a long way from them to be able to find somewhere to live. If I don't pay her the money, she will have to move area and move the girls out of their school and away from their friends.

So, has anyone else been in this position? What have they done about it and what was the outcome?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Run. She is a wack job and you should be a role model to your children. Abuse is never ok.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

Londoner,

I didn't get any further than the fact that your wife broke your ribs by kicking you repeatedly. That's an abusive relationship, and yes you should leave it. So what if she's only gotten violent 3 times in 17 years? What happens next time she gets mad? Maybe she picks up that knife in the kitchen or hits your children - do you really want to be around for that?


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## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

Lloyd Dobler said:


> Londoner,
> 
> I didn't get any further than the fact that your wife broke your ribs by kicking you repeatedly. That's an abusive relationship, and yes you should leave it. So what if she's only gotten violent 3 times in 17 years? What happens next time she gets mad? Maybe she picks up that knife in the kitchen or hits your children - do you really want to be around for that?


About the violence, I do agree with what you are saying...but I do want to add that the last violent outburst was almost 10 years ago. Although she's never apologised, I do think that she regrets it and I think that this part of her is in the past.
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending her actions but I feel like enough time has passed for me to trust that it isn't something I have to worry about.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Your wife needs some serious & intense counseling. That type of anger is not normal and not OK. She is a rage-a-holic... that is real too. You, sir, are in an abusive relationship. Not only has your wife gotten physically violent with you but she berates you & is verbally/emotionally abusive.

Does the UK have a domestic violence hotline? If they do, give them a call & tell them all about your situation. They can give you information on resources that are equipped to help you. I would also get in touch with a divorce attorney, most will do a free initial consultation. Explain your entire situation & learn what your rights are & what your wife's rights are. Knowledge is power in a situation like yours.

I am very concerned about your daughters. Do they see their mom explode like that? Have they ever witnessed your wife get violent with you (or even throwing things)? Does your wife yell at the girls too? That is not safe for them & very detrimental to their emotional well-being. Your daughters aren't safe with a mother like that.

The next time your wife gets crazy, starts throwing things, or even looks like she is going to hit you. Gather the girls & call the cops to get this documented. I am so sorry you are going through this...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Here is my advice.
1. Get counseling for yourself.
2. Any time your wife is violent, call the police and have her arrested.
3. Find a way in your local country to get 100% custody of your children to keep them safe from violence and abuse.
4. Recognize that your personal saftey and the safety of your children is more important than anything else, including where you live and money.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How does your wife treat your children? Is her rage only directed at you? Or is she mistreating your children?

Your wife works right? Why do you assume that you have to leave and she will get custody with you seeing your children only on weekends?

What I suggest is that you find a very good lawyer and find out your rights in custody, etc. Do not tell your wife that you are doing this right now. You need to plan to protect your children. Do not move out of your house. It's as much your legal residence as it is hers. And mostly do not leave your children with her. She will treat them the way she treats you.

Get into counseling yourself to get support. You are a victim of domestic violence. Your children probably need to be in counseling as well.

You need to establish that your wife has a serious anger and violence issue. It does not matter that the last violence was 10 years ago. She has the propensity to be violent.

Ask your lawyer if you can use a VAR (voice activated recorder). Keep it on you at all times when you are round her. Get her angry outbursts recorded. 

If she gets violent again you will have proof that it was her and not you. So call the police and press charges. This could get her removed from the home. It could force her into counseling, therapy and whatever else is needed to stop her angry behavior.


You say that she has not been violent in a long time. Does she do things like throw things; break things; pound on furniture, walls etc.? Does she verbally threaten to harm you physically?

Does your wife have this type of outburst at work? in stores? in other public places? I'll bet not since she still has a job. She has 100% control over her outbursts. She does this to control you, your children and her environment. She's a classic abuser.

Here is something that might help you.

What Are My Chances of 50/50 Residence?


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## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks all,

In a general response to the points raised here:

1. Do the kids see her get violent? No they don't, she's never actually been violent in their lifetime.
2. Does she throw things, hit things or threaten violence? No, she doesn't. She never throws or punches things, when I did see her become violent I never saw it coming.
3. Does she have outbursts in public? No, never. She does control it with other people.
4. Does she have outbursts directed at the children? No, she is (and please believe me on this one) very good with the children. Though I do harbour the concern that if I did leave, she would get very angry, and I would not be there to focus her anger on...the children would though. I have no idea whether she would do this though.

I should also mention that, some say that my wife needs to see a therapist, however my wife _is_ a therapist and as part of her training she had to undergo counselling herself. The problem is that any form of counselling or therapy requires that the person being counselled understands that they have a problem that they need to deal with. My wife does not feel that she does anything wrong, she just jokingly tells me that she is 'fiery' or 'passionate'.

Regarding using a VAR - Is this legal? I don't know what it is like in the US but in the UK you are not allowed to record someone without their consent and supply it as evidence in a legal case (as I understand it, I'm no expert - I may be wrong).

So, I don't feel that I am in a position to call the police when she has outbursts. Nowadays, they are just shouting and abusive language, no breaking things, no throwing things, just that and she would be more than pleasant to any police officer that turned up.

As I say, I do feel like the violence, however awful, is in the past... the rest of it is not.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

Londoner said:


> Thanks all,
> 
> In a general response to the points raised here:
> 
> ...


Seriously? So the time she kicked you repeatedly in the ribs until you sustained broken ribs, there wasn't anything wrong with that?

And you wife is a therapist? There is so much wrong with this on so many levels, I don't even know where to start. I get what you're saying that she hasn't been violent since you've had children, but I can assure you that your children are being scarred even now whenever she has an outburst. The fact that she is a therapist and still gets out of control verbally abusive with you points to the fact that not only does she not respect you, but she KNOWS intellectually what she's doing is wrong, but she's excusing it because she says she's "fiery." I call BS on that. She's verbally abusive to you because you're allowing it to continue.

I suggest that you get some counseling for yourself because it doesn't seem like she's ever going to want to own up to her issues. You can't change her - only she can do that. What you can do, however, is change what you'll put up with and that's where counseling will help.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

So what happens when your children are teenagers and p!ss off your wife more than you ever could?

Sure, you could stick around and "protect" them by taking the brunt of it. That MIGHT keep her from lashing out at them, WHEN you're around. But you can't be around 24/7. 

What happens when they reach adulthood and start subconsciously making relationship decisions based on what they see at home? If you think they don't notice her anger and verbal/emotional abuse of you, you are sadly mistaken. They will more than likely end up with partners who treat them this way OR they will treat their partners this way. 

Your wife needs a swift, ruthless wake up call. As do you! 

Your children need you to teach them that this is NOT OK!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I will say the same thing to you that I would say to a woman whose husband had beat her enough to cause serious injury.

Get out now and take your children with you. It may be too late to press charges for assault and battery / GBH (I don't know when this happened), but if you can you should.

There is no excuse for this and no second chances. 

Men can be beaten by their wives because there is such a strong social pressure not to fight back. The abuse is every bit as serious.

Do not stay with a physical abuser, and do not let your children near her. What might she do to one of then if she gets angry? What if it is one of then she is kicking on the floor. 

The other problems you list are enough reason to leave anyway. Normal people are not like this. The are women who will love you, be attracted to you, and respect you. 






Londoner said:


> snip
> Her anger has, a few times, spilled over to violence, in one extreme example, she repeatedly kicked me on the floor until she broke one of my ribs.
> snip


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I hope this post is fake. She is a therapist who broke your ribs? But it was 10 years ago, so I guess that's o.k. File for divorce, after you VAR her outbursts for the courts to hear. Just tell her you are recording her and it is legal. At least here in the U.S. Check with a lawyer, as she may have NO RIGHT to move your kids away if you are an active dad. Good luck!


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

We've had spouses of therapists/counselors here before. 

They are very good at manipulating their spouses.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

zillard said:


> We've had spouses of therapists/counselors here before.
> 
> They are very good at manipulating their spouses.


Yep, one of my nephews married a therapist. She is much like the OP's wife. I think that the marriage lasted about 4 years. They have one child.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Londoner said:


> 4. Does she have outbursts directed at the children? No, she is (and please believe me on this one) very good with the children. Though I do harbour the concern that if I did leave, she would get very angry, and I would not be there to focus her anger on...the children would though. I have no idea whether she would do this though.


It is highly likely that as the children get older, she will turn it on them. Especially if you are not around.

And keep in mind that you have no idea how she behaves with the children when you are not around.



Londoner said:


> I should also mention that, some say that my wife needs to see a therapist, however my wife _is_ a therapist and as part of her training she had to undergo counselling herself. The problem is that any form of counselling or therapy requires that the person being counselled understands that they have a problem that they need to deal with. My wife does not feel that she does anything wrong, she just jokingly tells me that she is 'fiery' or 'passionate'.


Perhaps you could start standing up to her and show her that she has a problem. What you have been doing is to enable her bad behavior. A VAR (more on that later) is a good way to let her know what she really sounds like. As long as you do not address it, of course she thinks that she has no problem. After all you have stayed with her for a long time. 



Londoner said:


> Regarding using a VAR - Is this legal? I don't know what it is like in the US but in the UK you are not allowed to record someone without their consent and supply it as evidence in a legal case (as I understand it, I'm no expert - I may be wrong).


I did a google search and found a lot of info on this topic. Apparently it is legal to record personal conversations without the consent of the other person. I posted a quote form one website below.

To answer your question about the USA. Most states are what we call one-party states. That means that a person can record a conversation with only their own consent to be recorded. A few states are two-party states, meaning that all parties to a conversation have to consent to the recording.

In a place where there is no presumption of privacy, no consent is needed.

Even in two-party states, there is a provision in the law that if a person is recording a crime, then no consent is needed. Why? Because the recording is in the public interest in stopping/prosecuting crime. Physical abuse is a crime.

One thing that some people do is to make the recordings. Then have a conversation with the spouse about the fact that their behavior very bad. Then if the spouse denies it, they pull out the recorder and play it so that the spouse hears what they sound like. We had a guy here who did this in counseling. Up to that point the counselor was buying the wife’s claim that he was no abusive/angry. Once the recording was out there the wife could no longer lie.



> *Person to Person*
> 
> Between two private individuals it is not prohibited to record conversations. The problem arises however, if that conversation is then provided to a third party for whatever reason, without the consent of both parties. Consent can be obtained retrospectively or by arguing it to be within the publics interest. As an example, reporters frequently record conversations covertly, but their defence is that the content is in the public’s interest and should be disclosed; in that knowledge of the recording would alter the content of the conversation significantly.
> 
> ...





Londoner said:


> So, I don't feel that I am in a position to call the police when she has outbursts. Nowadays, they are just shouting and abusive language, no breaking things, no throwing things, just that and she would be more than pleasant to any police officer that turned up.


Sometimes this can be considered bad enough to call the police. I don’t know what it’s like so I’m not sure if her behavior does.

I was married to a man who behaved a lot like the way you describe your wife. It was awful. I read a book “The Dance of Anger” (great book). In the book it talked about some things to do when one’s spouse has these awful angry outbursts. There was one that I used and it worked to almost completely diminish the outbursts. Here is how it goes.


You decide on a safe work. I used “STOP”. When I could tell that things between us were about to escalate to an angry outburst by my husband, I put my hand up I the stop sign and said “STOP” firmly. Then told him that I won’t engage in this. And then I’d walk away; go to another room; for a walk to get away from him.

Before I started this I told him that I was not going to tolerate the anger anymore because it hurt us both too much. So I would use the STOP thing and leave. It was up to each of us to calm ourselves down and rethink what we wanted to say to avoid the angry outbursts. 

Over time he develop the habit of going on a bike ride … exercise is the best way to calm down and think things through.

You need to get firm with your wife that YOU are not ok with her angry outbursts. That the awful behavior that she calls 'fiery' is destroying your love for her and you cannot deal with it anymore. It’s not 'fiery' or 'passionate', ugly mean behavior and you will not tolerate it any more.


There is a good book that might help you talk to her about this behavior: Love Busters. It about identifying the things in a relationship that kill the love. And then how to stop this destruction of the relationship.



Londoner said:


> As I say, I do feel like the violence, however awful, is in the past... the rest of it is not.


Don’t be surprise if it escalates if you do go to divorce.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Is there anyway to find out her behavior with the kids while you are not there? I just find it hard to believe that someone with such extreme anger problems can keep it in 24/7. Kids can try even the most patient person.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Londoner said:


> Hi, so, I'm well aware that I can't be the first in this kind of situation. So I'm interested to hear what others in my position have done and how they find it.
> 
> So, to give you the background. My Wife and I have been together for 17 years and married for 10 years. We have two daughters (8 and 6).
> 
> ...


I think you must leave her. At the very least until she gets into anger management and gets her angry outbursts completely under control and takes complete responsibility for how she acts. She may need medication.

How are the laws in London? Can you get custody of the children? Can you have a situation where if you're raising the children you are in the house and she is the one relegated to a small flat somewhere far away?

If you think she might really hurt you, I would get out immediately.

Otherwise, I would not tip my hand to her just yet, but I would talk with a lawyer and see what you can do. Ask the lawyer if you call the police the next time she starts screaming over anything and report to them that she was becoming physically violent, can getting this on record help you get custody of the children? 

Maybe I'm playing with fire here - but you could probably provoke her into losing her mind in front of the police pretty easily...

Good luck to you. She is not stable. You have not had a better relationship so you don't have anything to compare her to, but none of this needs to be and you will probably be much happier if you end up alone the rest of your life than in a house with some psycho whack job berating you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, I fear this calls for my advise... After all, I am...

View attachment 35906


Ok, now that we got the comic relief out of the way... 

First of all, talk to a competent solicitor and find out if (a) evidence of mom being BSC is useful in a custody dispute (b) evidence obtained via not so clear methods is admissible and (c) if a and b are at least partially true what's your chance for full custody.

If all these align start looking for video surveillance that you can hide in your house - like a var but with pictures!!!

Go slowly regardless of c and build up your case. Document as much as you can. 

Find out if such evidence can be used as part of mental assessment. 

In essence you want to build a case against her. 

Note: verify the legality and admissibility of such information... And get good legal advise. I think some serious personality disorder may have been involved...


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## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

I'm afraid I've had to take a break from this thread. I need to clarify a few points....

- I really do not believe that I could ever provoke her in front of police. I could never 'stage' an outburst to happen on an occasion that is legally beneficial. Bear in mind that she can be in mid-flow, seemingly out-of-control and if someone comes to the front door she is nice and normal, she will even display kindness to me during that period.....as soon as the guest leaves, the monster returns.
- Getting the kids to live with me. The problem is that unless I could provide evidence to indicate that she is unfit to look after the children, I would be in a very difficult legal position, since I work full-time and she works part-time and only during school hours (she is freelance and define her hours, so she does the childcare during the week).

I also feel like everyone here has built a rather extreme mental picture (probably based on the extreme description of a few specific events). She is a perfectly kind, nice, normal person for 3 or 4 weeks straight, being kind supportive and the person I fell in love with. The problem is that when she is set off, everything changes. There is no reasoning with her, no talking to her and her anger is horrific.

Regarding 'building a case against her', I really can't see how. I feel like it would descend into me saying 'She said XYZ to me', with her replying 'I said no such thing'. I would also add that she would have no issue with telling any legal representative that I had done or said awful things to her or possibly even to the children. You need to bear in mind that if I ever did raise a legal grievance with her, she would get angry and I cannot say this enough, but when she gets angry there is little that she will not do.

I've always visualised my life with her as a beautiful garden on a summer's day. The garden is very beautiful and filled with flowers but it also has a sleeping vicious dog sitting in the corner. You can enjoy the garden, you can run and feel the warm grass between your toes, but you do so with caution. If you wake the dog, you will regret it.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Are you OK with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

zillard said:


> Are you OK with that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess I wouldn't be here posting this stuff if I was.

I was really asking whether anyone else has experienced anything similar, what they did about it and whether they found something better out of their actions?

Really, I guess I'm not looking for 'You need to get out of there' or 'She needs serious therapy'. i do appreciate what people are saying but I also do understand my options.

I mean I have some real concerns about just leaving:
- What happens if the children live with her and I'm not there when she loses it?
- What happens when she is angry about a divorce and decides that she doesn't want me to see the kids?

If I do decide on legal actions I worry:
- How would I be able to make a case? She would make similar (untrue) accusations about me and we would be able to provide little evidence.
- In a legal battle the girls would be drawn in and I really, really, do not want to see them go through something like that.

Having said that the worries I have may be entirely unfounded. I do often find her really unpredictable.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Your fears are not unfounded. There is risk for all involved if you leave. I completely understand.

Also there is risk if you stay. For all involved. 

Perhaps seeing a therapist yourself will help you sort out what you want in life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Shouting and screaming, using abusive language is not ok more so if she is doing it while the kids are in the house. You have to be firm with her and tell her this is no way to communicate and you are not taking her yelling and screaming anymore, enough is enough. i think you have let her away with far too much abusive behaviour and not called her out on it. I can understand why you would want to stay for the kids etc but this is not the kind of environment you should have kids in.

Go to counselling to deal with your lack of assertiveness and the wounds she has caused in the past, it's bound to have left emotional scars
Tell her she herself needs to have anger management counselling as you will no longer tolerate verbal abuse of any kind, be prepared to follow through (not threats) and tell you you will separate and she has a chance of losing her kids if she doesn't take this seriously.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Londoner, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, verbal and physical abuse, lack of empathy, refusing to acknowledge her acting out, and lack of impulse control -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD (or AvPD) warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Hence, the main reason for learning these red flags -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you protect yourself and your children and to decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion about your W's issues.

I therefore suggest that you read my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Londoner.


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## Londoner (Jul 1, 2015)

Uptown, thanks for this, actually she almost all of those items.

1. Black-White thinking - This really applies to her, she thinks of people as 'wonderful' or 'despicable' and an individual can change from one to the other over a single action. This also applies to the way she thinks of institutions, objects, art, anything...
2. Use of all-or-nothing expressions - Yes, I've always 'never' done something or 'always' do something.
3. Irrational Jealousy or Controlling behaviour - Actually this one doesn't particularly apply, she is controlling but never jealous.
4. String sense of entitlement - This one really applies, she would have me doing everything for her then, if I do say I just want to sit down for a bit, that she 'never asks me to do anything'.
5. Flipping on a dime - Yes, absolutely.
6. Creating drama - Yes, as I said in this thread, there is no difference in the level of outburst regardless of the trigger.
7. Low self-esteem - She really does have this. She worries about everything and thinks that she does everything badly.
8. Easily triggered temper tantrums - Yes again...I would say that the tantrums don't last hours, they normally last 2/3 days but normally disappear as quickly as they appear.
9. Abandonment issues - This is extreme in her case. When we first got together she told me lots of stories about people/family 'abandoning' her. Our early arguments were normally because I had left her on her own (even for a few minutes).
10. The Victim - This is extreme too. She always strongly feels like the victim (Though this one I suspect is true of everybody).

16. Having casual friends - She never has really close friends because, at some point, they do something to become 'despicable' and she never wants to see them again. Some people she does keep as friends despite being, in her opinion, awful people but she purposefully distances herself a little.
18. Her feelings reflect reality - She will rewrite history. I actually think that she kind-of knows that she does this, in the past when I've attempted to drill down as to whether she thinks I said/did something (that I am fully aware never happened) then she will obviously avoid the questions or flip again and start shouting.

The question is, what do I do about it?

If I even suggested to her that she may have any kind of PD then I would live to regret it. The problem is that to deal with something like BPD she would first need to see someone for a professional diagnosis. There is no way on earth that she would see a psychiatrist or psychoanalyst of any sort.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Then that's your answer.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Londoner said:


> She is controlling but never jealous.... Abandonment issues - This is extreme in her case.


Strange but interesting, Londoner. I've never heard of someone having a great fear of abandonment and not exhibiting strong irrational jealousy. Typically, such a person will try to isolate her partner away from all his friends and family members and will be very jealous when he shows attention to other women. My BPDer exW was even jealous of the love I had for her own children.

As to her being "controlling," this likely serves three main purposes if she has strong BPD traits. One reason for being so controlling is to hold you at a safe distance, permitting you to draw close in intimacy for only short periods. BPDers have such a weak sense of self that they quickly start feeling suffocated and engulfed during intimacy, at which time they get a scary feeling that they are losing themselves into their partners.

A second reason is to control you sufficiently that you don't withdraw too far, which would trigger her great fear of abandonment. And a third reason for the controlling is to frequently maneuver you into being the "perpetrator," the cause of all her unhappiness. By controlling you, it's easier for her to blame you for every misfortune and mistake.



> Her anger has, a few times, spilled over to violence, in one extreme example, she repeatedly kicked me on the floor until she broke one of my ribs.


If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds -- at the slightest provocation. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> Does she have outbursts in public? No, never. She does control it with other people.


The vast majority of BPDers (studies suggest 2/3 to 3/4 of them) are high functioning people who generally interact well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. The reason is that none of those folks pose a threat to the two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. 

The result is that it is common to see a BPDer being compassionate and polite all day long at a demanding, professional job -- and then go home at night to abuse the very person who loves her the most. Hence, if your W really is a BPDer, her success around other people likely is not so much due to "controlling it" with other people as it is with her fears not being triggered by those other people. This will be evident when one of them makes the mistake of drawing close to her in a close friendship, at which point that individual will start triggering her temper tantrums. This is how BPDers typically push away all close friends.



> There is no way on earth that she would see a psychiatrist or psychoanalyst of any sort.


If she has strong BPD traits, the resulting thought distortions are such a "normal" way of how she's been thinking since childhood that these distortions are invisible to her. This is why BPD is said to be ego-syntonic, i.e., such a regular way of thinking that it is invisible to the BPDer. And this is one reason why it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to seek therapy.



> The question is, *what do I do about it? * If I even suggested to her that she may have any kind of PD then I would live to regret it.


*As an initial matter,* if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Because the projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will be absolutely convinced that YOU are one having whatever it is you are attributing to her.

*Second,* I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with -- and how likely it is she may pass it on to those children. BPD, for example, is believed to be passed to the next generation partly through genetics and partly through environment (e.g., an invalidating mother). 

As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers -- much less tell their spouses -- the name of the disorder. It thus is important to see YOUR OWN psychologist because he will be ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not those of your W.

*Third,* if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder._ Both books are written by the same author.

*Fourth,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. It offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board, "Leaving" board, and "Parenting after the Split" board.

*Fifth,* while you are at BPDfamily, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorites are article #9 "Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering from BPD" and article #10 "Leaving a Partner with BPD."

*Finally*, Londoner, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Run. She's mercurial, and lacks any form of self control. She needs serious work. Work which you can't do.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm just adding my voice to say you are in an abusive relationship. It doesn't really matter at this point if she gets it or not. You need to do whatever you can to protect your self and your children.


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