# My Story - Positive Signs?



## BeYou

I'm not happy to be here, but I know from the past that the people on these and other forums are fantastic in these times.

I think things are looking up, but looking for some outside opinions to confirm that? Here's my story...

My wife and I have been together for nearly 8 years, married nearly 2. We have one son together, he's 5. Last September, we drifted apart (had been happening for a while obviously), we were fighting more and stressed out. We were trying to make things work, until I went for coffee with a female cooworker. My W worked in the same building as me (different company though) and I saw her on my way back from a break. She asked me where I was coming from, and I told her I went for coffee with this coworker. To me, it wasn't a big deal, so I told her. But that hurt her bad, due to the fact that we were in rough times, and the coworker was attractive.

We had a falling out, and she decided that was the final straw. She gave me the ILYBNILWY, and said it would be best if she moved to her parents place, and did. We were both unhappy at that point and so the decision was pretty mutual as we were both frustrated.

For the next 2 months, I kept things off my mind by going out and socializing a lot. But my W and I were still "hanging out" and having sex. It's like we were split...but not REALLY split. We even had a chat one day about getting back together, but it didn't materialize. After a couple months, that stopped. She decided she just kept getting hurt, and closed off for good. We stopped hanging out, we stopped being intimate, and she was done for good. Our discussions move to custody and selling the house. She was done. This opened my eyes. I was hurt. The pain finally hit for real. I was crushed. I was doing the pleading and begging. Of course it didn't work. By January (3 months since she moved) I had read the books, had my "moment of reflection", and really started working on myself and stopped the pleading. Even though she was still wanting to sell the house and get a place of her own, I held on to hope. We went to a counseling session, but W was checked out, and didn't want to be there.

But by the end of January, something changed. We went out together once or twice, and had a great time just as friends. And a week later, we found our way back. By February (4 months later), we fell back in love, and she moved back a short while later! I was ecstatic! My son was in heaven! We were like a new couple again! It felt amazing!

Fast forward 5 more months, and it's over again. Things were great for a while, and I implemented changes, but then we did something stupid and started a business about a month after being back together that added some stress to our lives, and took time away from each other.

She dropped another bomb after a couple fights we had and said she was done for good, divorce. No way she was changing her mind. The same cycle, I begged and pleaded, tried to talk her out of it, and eventually realized that wasn't going to work. This time I moved out to a friends house.

Talking to her about working things out only pushed her further away. She is/was very sure that she was/is done for good. I've been moved out since Aug 1.

A new post for what has happened since then...


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## BeYou

So at first, I was still wanting to talk to her about making things work. I had booked a counseling appointment after our last fight before we officially called it quits, but she did not want to go. She had no desire to continue to live unhappy and figured if nothing has changed in 8 years, why would it. Fair point. The thing is, we were soooo happy for a while, but little things built up again and we didn't focus on each other to make sure each other were priorities over the last few months.

I pulled back a bit. Decided to stop talking R. She invited my son and I down for lunch one day on her work break. Positive step. We went and hung out and things were nice. I decided I was going to be ME, the real me, and be the confident, driven guy I am. I told her I was going to take her for a drink one night. She agreed to it. I found sitter, and agreed on the next night. When I showed up at the house to pick her up, she suddenly changed her mind. She said there was no way she could let me spend money on her. She doesn't have the same intentions as me, doesn't ever want to get back together, doesn't want to give me false hope. I played it cool and just said I had NO expectations for that night, that I just wanted to go hang out and enjoy each other as friends and just have fun instead of talking R. She eventually agreed.

We had a GREAT night! We went for supper and drinks, and told each other things we'd never told each other before. True friend talk. Then we went to a casino and played some slots and talked for another 4-5 hours. We were more focused on each other and chatting than anything. It was fantastic!

As I drove her home, I thanked her for coming because I had a lot of fun with her. She agreed and thanked as well. She said that night was the first time she's really had any regrets about us splitting because it felt good. I dropped her off, we hugged, she said I smelled good, I took that as her maybe wanting to go "further" (beer mind?) but she didn't...so I thanked her and left.

The next morning when I dropped our son off, I told her we should go for a drive one night...she kind of looked frustrated by the offer (as in me being too pushy or expecting everything to just be cool now) so I just dropped it and said bye and went to work. I've read that there can be a "backlash" after a positive moment as they throw their guard back up.

I decided I would not really call or text her for the next few days and see how she reacted. She did text me a few times about different things. I responded when she did, but didn't really initiate anything.

A couple days ago, while we were both at work, I went and grabbed coffees and dropped one off for her at work and didn't say a word (she was busy with customers). She texted me later and said thank you. And then called later that night to talk about her getting a shift the next day (so where to pick up son). When I dropped hime off the next morning (I had a day shift, she worked later at 3) I said to her, if you get to work a little early, would you like to have coffee before you start? She said sure, and then changed it up and said how about meet for lunch? So we did. Again, it was good! Then when she came back for her shift, she texted me to meet for coffee before her shift too! And then called me at work during her shift! So I felt this was a very positive day! Last night I called her just to see how the rest of her shift went and say goodnight.

Today she texted me early this morning as I was getting to work (she's working days too today). We texted a little bit and she mentioned wanting a coffee, but was going to wait for her break. I went down to the coffee shop and grab a couple coffee's and dropped one off at her work again (she was busy again). She texted me later when it was time for her actual break and we went on break together again.

I asked about hanging out again like we did last week, but she wants to spend time with our son tonight which I expected as this is his first day back with her in 4 days. I asked about tomorrow instead and she said yes, assuming we can get a babysitter, so she said she would talk to her mom tonight. The one part that stung a little is she mentioned during break that she was "really appreciating me being her friend." She said this before agreeing about tomorrow night. But this is obviously 10x better than things were 2 weeks ago. And considering how we hit it off last week when we went out, I'm hoping for similar results tomorrow night (if it happens).

Any advice? I think these are positive changes for sure. I'm trying to not get too high or low, and understand that it may take time, and she's not ready "right now" to jump back in, but the fact that she is initiating coffee breaks and things is very positive. And the fact that she is open to hanging out one on one is very positive as well.

I love her so much, and hate that we had a second chance with each other and let it get away from us. We didn't get counseling when we got back, and decided to do this business that didn't help. We did book a trip to Vegas 2 months ago and had a great time together, and had a camping trip that she missed because she changed jobs. Things were going good, but we were getting too busy for "us" again and it caused a lot of furstration and stress between us and led to short tempers and no communication.

So even though things improved from the last time, I know now, if a miracle happens and we get a third chance, there will be a gigantic, concerted effort to not lose focus and get too busy with life to appreciate each other more.

Wish me luck, and please provide any advice! (and please no "run and don't look back" comments)

Sorry for the novels.


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## BeYou

I should add too that the last stretch before our recent breakup, she was getting very jealous. But she never presented it as her wanting more attention, it came out in an accusatory way and it was frustrating me that she wasn't trusting me and kept accusing. She was never really the jealous type. I wasn't seeing this as a call for attention, I was seeing it as her being unfair for no reason. So we weren't communicating very well. By the time I figured it out, it was too late. She said she was feeling like I would look at other girls or talk to other girls, which she admitted shouldn't make her feel jealous, but because she didn't feel she was getting my attention herself, that it hurt her and made her pull away.

In my defense, I don't have any female friends, I'm not a "ladies man", but I do work with female coworkers, and my W and I play on a ball team together with some of those coworkers.

Anyway, just some added context to this. She was feeling neglected in the relationship.


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## MSC71

I think your best bet is to back off. She mentions coffee and you come running with a cup. Your chasing her.


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## BeYou

Hoping someone out there can help me through this and give me some objective perception of the situation. Anyone?

To give an update, we didn't end up hanging out last night. She had a birthday party to go to for a coworker. She said she'd text me when she figured out what was going on with that (they were going for supper), and maybe we'd get together. She did text me to tell me the girls were all going out so she was going to go out with them for a bit. I simply said "sounds good, have a blast - call if you need a ride later."

I dropped off our son this morning. She said she had fun last night, got home late. We do hug when we leave each other but it's always initiated by me. Today I didn't just to see if she would. She didn't, but she did walk by and pat my chest. Not sure if there is anything to read from that or not.

I've told her to keep Thursday open because I was going to plan some things to hang out. She's agreed to keep that open.

There hasn't really been any relationship talk in the last couple weeks. There hasn't been any talk about an official separation agreement or divorce in that time either though. So I'm not sure what to think.

I want to go out with her again like we did last Saturday because we both agreed it was a great time. But I don't want to come across like I'm constantly trying to plan things for us, and it's gonna start feeling that way soon.

I'm caught between continuing this pursuit while showing happiness and fun, or going no contact and talking about moving things along towards closure (dividing assets, agreements, etc).

Any thoughts? Should I just keep up what I am doing and see how she responds? Is it too early to push towards the D?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

Thanks MSC71.

Your right, I am chasing. When she shows positive signs, it makes me want to jump on those opportunities. 

Today has been rough. The tears showed up again. I just want so bad for us to be happy together. 

I'm not sure though, maybe just backing off and going NC would have a positive effect? It just seems like an odd strategy when she was feeling neglected in the relationship. That's why I'm running for coffees and what not. I'm wanting her to feel appreciated and special. That's what as wanted. That's why we are here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

BeYou said:


> Thanks MSC71.
> 
> Your right, I am chasing. When she shows positive signs, it makes me want to jump on those opportunities.
> 
> Today has been rough. The tears showed up again. I just want so bad for us to be happy together.
> 
> I'm not sure though, maybe just backing off and going NC would have a positive effect? It just seems like an odd strategy when she was feeling neglected in the relationship. That's why I'm running for coffees and what not. I'm wanting her to feel appreciated and special. That's what as wanted. That's why we are here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes, it is hard to do and it goes against everything we want to do to make things better. Hugs when you leave etc mean nothing though. Don't read into them. She may want to remain friends with you and that is it. Just don't read into anything she says and does. Act happy around her. But don't ask her to do anything. Dont initiate anything and see if she makes the first move. It may take a while, but be patient.


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## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> Yes, it is hard to do and it goes against everything we want to do to make things better. Hugs when you leave etc mean nothing though. Don't read into them. She may want to remain friends with you and that is it. Just don't read into anything she says and does. Act happy around her. But don't ask her to do anything. Dont initiate anything and see if she makes the first move. It may take a while, but be patient.


I know you're right.

The thing is, had I not initiated our outing last Saturday, it wouldn't have happened. But it did, and it was great...and she even said that she felt regret for the first time since we split because of that night. So it's tough to not want to let that happen again and see if it can slowly let us come together. The last time we split, that's how we found each other again. We went out and did things as friends and realized there was still something there. And when she had to go to the hospital for a night, I was there for her the whole time. She saw that and I think that is what brought us back together.

Man this is tough. I regret losing sight of what mattered most to me. Again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

So I had a weak moment yesterday. I called her and told her I was sorry for how things ended, and for hurting her. She told me not to dwell on it...but it's hard not to. There's a guy in her group of friends who really likes her and I'm nervous that might spur something.

She said we could talk tomorrow (which is today) and she would tell me exactly how she's feeling right now.

A few days ago she texted me she had an X-Ray appointment because of a baseball to the leg that she took a week ago in our slopitch game. I asked if it was at this certain place that she's gone before, and she told me not it was at this other one. Just simple **** chatting, I said I didn't realize there was one there. Then she texted me the actual address of the place and the time she was going. It almost seemed as though she wanted me to be there. As lame as it sounds, I did decide to meet her there, but didn't tell her for sure that I was going to go. About 20 min before the appoinment this morning out of nowhere, she texted me saying "yes, it's in that building." Again, not sure why she would suddenly text that unless she was sort of hoping I'd be there. She seemed genuinely happy that I was there with her. We had a quick coffee and breakfast before we went to work.

She actually asked me today if I wanted to come by her parents house this weekend because they're having a BBQ. She asked if I wanted to check with another relative to watch our son so I could come for a bit. She had talked about this BBQ before and simply asked if I could watch our son that day so she could go, but she's never before suggested I should go. Today she asked. So do I go???

Not sure what's going on tonight. As mentioned, yesterday she said we could have supper tonight and talk. Today she mentioned she wasn't sure what to make for supper, but I didn't ask or push anything. I'm going to wait and see if she suggests I come for supper. If she doesn't, I won't.

The time we do spend together is still really good. We are friendly, and smiles, and talk.

Any suggestions on what I do about the BBQ this weekend?


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## wiigirl

MSC71 said:


> I think your best bet is to back off. She mentions coffee and you come running with a cup. Your chasing her.


This, but not in a mean way.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

I also talked to our step-sister-in-law. Not that my wife talks to her about anything at all, but she's a very "pro love" type person so I felt it would be good to talk to her versus other people who tend to throw "other fish in the sea" comments.

She told me not to give up. She said she can tell that my W and I have true love and she really believes we will be together again, but said it could be a little or a lot of time.

Her advice was awesome, in that we need to just take some time to heal the hole in our hearts and make sure that the changes we plan to make are permanent and possible. She advised I write down all the things I love about my W and write down the things that went wrong, and answer those things with what changes would work...but real changes, not temporary things.

She suggested that when I talk to my W today, that I speak from my heart and tell her exactly how I feel and show her my list. She admitted she may not seem to take it well now, but that she will remember it when she's ready. She said she isn't a mind reason and will only know what's in my heart if I tell her. She's convinced that my W is also feeling a lot of pain and that she does truly love me, but that things are just so fresh. She understands that I'm going to worry about this guy, but said chances are, nothing serious is happening and that the attention is just helping my W to keep her mind off things right now.

Anyway, I would love to take her advice, but it kind of goes against what the 180, DB'ing type stuff suggests to do. But she does know the situation a bit better than the generic advice from the books, so maybe I should follow what she says?


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## BeYou

I should also mention, when we first split she "quit" our ball team too. But she's come to the last couple games. That's over now but there is a tournament this weekend and she really wants to come play (in spite of her leg and doctors advice not to).

So she's clearly not making an effort to avoid me by any means.


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## Hope1964

Are you sure she doesn't have someone else and is just keeping you in her back pocket 'just in case'?


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## BeYou

Hope1964 said:


> Are you sure she doesn't have someone else and is just keeping you in her back pocket 'just in case'?


No I'm not sure she doesn't have someone else. Like I said, I know there is this guy who she's hanging around in her group of friends. I know there is probably more there than she is admitting, but at the same time I don't think she'll jump into anything serious right now. She's likely enjoying the attention that he's giving her because he likes her, but she swears it's not like that. But I know that could be a bunch of BS too.

I don't think she's keeping me around as a "just in case" at all though. She had her reasons for splitting and this guy wasn't around at that time. I don't think her decision to split was clouded by someone else.

I also don't think she's the type that would come "running back" if something didn't work out. She's too proud and independent for that.


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## BeYou

I think maybe my thread would be more appropriate in the "Going Through Divorce or Separation" forum. Does anyone know how to get it moved?

Thanks!


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## BeYou

I should add, I just remembered I have a touch football game tonight at 6pm that I was really looking forward to.

My W hasn't talked about supper since yesterday saying we could have supper tonight, and mentioning this morning that she didn't know what to make for supper tonight (but didn't ask me this time again, so not sure if she was justing speaking out loud, or if she implying I was going to be a part of that decision).

So if she asks if I am coming for supper, should I go as planned and talk about feelings and relationship as was planned?

Should I go but don't bring that stuff up, just have a nice supper, and then leave to football?

Should I state I forgot about a prior committment, and got it football instead?

What I would like to do is go for supper if she asks, but don't stay too long, and go to football a little late. As for how to act over supper or what to talk about, I'm not sure. The original point of the supper was to talk about how we each feel. But I feel I'm in a better state today, and this morning may have been a sign to just leave that alone for now and see what happens this week?


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## MSC71

BeYou said:


> I should add, I just remembered I have a touch football game tonight at 6pm that I was really looking forward to.
> 
> My W hasn't talked about supper since yesterday saying we could have supper tonight, and mentioning this morning that she didn't know what to make for supper tonight (but didn't ask me this time again, so not sure if she was justing speaking out loud, or if she implying I was going to be a part of that decision).
> 
> So if she asks if I am coming for supper, should I go as planned and talk about feelings and relationship as was planned?
> 
> Should I go but don't bring that stuff up, just have a nice supper, and then leave to football?
> 
> Should I state I forgot about a prior committment, and got it football instead?
> 
> What I would like to do is go for supper if she asks, but don't stay too long, and go to football a little late. As for how to act over supper or what to talk about, I'm not sure. The original point of the supper was to talk about how we each feel. But I feel I'm in a better state today, and this morning may have been a sign to just leave that alone for now and see what happens this week?



I would go to football and if she asks tell her you have a game. That is your best bet. I know it sounds like the worst thing to do, but you don't want to come across as clingy and always available. I know you would rather go to dinner etc., but don't !


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## Conrad

Your focus is completely on her and every little twitch she makes.

If you don't go away, she will never miss you - in fact it's likely you will annoy her at worst.

At best, you'll firmly establish yourself as "Plan B" when she reviews all of her options going forward.

Do you have passions and interests that do not include her?

If you do not, this is a growth area for you and there's no time like the present to start.


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## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> I would go to football and if she asks tell her you have a game. That is your best bet. I know it sounds like the worst thing to do, but you don't want to come across as clingy and always available. I know you would rather go to dinner etc., but don't !


You're right that it does feel weird. I think in my current state of mind, I would be okay doing that though.

The thing that makes me question that though, is that after she invited me to the BBQ this morning, she later mentioned that I was always "too busy" for family BBQ's in the past. I'm not sure where she gets that from because I don't recall that being the case before. I was at most BBQ's. She asked why I wasn't at the last one at her aunt's place (about a month or two ago) and I don't remember why I couldn't make that one. But Inever ever dodged them.

So if she is feeling as if I was always "too busy" for these suppers/BBQ/family time...is it a bad idea to be "too busy" to make supper tonight???


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## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Your focus is completely on her and every little twitch she makes.
> 
> If you don't go away, she will never miss you - in fact it's likely you will annoy her at worst.
> 
> At best, you'll firmly establish yourself as "Plan B" when she reviews all of her options going forward.
> 
> Do you have passions and interests that do not include her?
> 
> If you do not, this is a growth area for you and there's no time like the present to start.


Thanks Conrad.

I do. I enjoy playing football, and hanging out with friends...and I've been doing those things. I have a small construction company on the side so I've been working on that stuff a little too, although that one is hard to get motivated for because I think that biz was a dagger in the relationship. So my heart is not really in that right now. I'm also planning on getting back to working out. Probably not at a gym, but just home workouts/jogging, etc.

But yes, I do have some interests that I enjoy and I have been making sure to not avoid those through this.


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Thanks Conrad.
> 
> I do. I enjoy playing football, and hanging out with friends...and I've been doing those things. I have a small construction company on the side so I've been working on that stuff a little too, although that one is hard to get motivated for because I think that biz was a dagger in the relationship. So my heart is not really in that right now. I'm also planning on getting back to working out. Probably not at a gym, but just home workouts/jogging, etc.
> 
> But yes, I do have some interests that I enjoy and I have been making sure to not avoid those through this.


Increase them.


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## MSC71

BeYou said:


> You're right that it does feel weird. I think in my current state of mind, I would be okay doing that though.
> 
> The thing that makes me question that though, is that after she invited me to the BBQ this morning, she later mentioned that I was always "too busy" for family BBQ's in the past. I'm not sure where she gets that from because I don't recall that being the case before. I was at most BBQ's. She asked why I wasn't at the last one at her aunt's place (about a month or two ago) and I don't remember why I couldn't make that one. But Inever ever dodged them.
> 
> So if she is feeling as if I was always "too busy" for these suppers/BBQ/family time...is it a bad idea to be "too busy" to make supper tonight???


I think you are reading in to what she says too much and over analyzing things. You're best bet is to not be available 100% of the time. If you want her back that is. If she mentions coffee or anything you don't have to run to her.


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## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Increase them.


Will do!


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## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> I think you are reading in to what she says too much and over analyzing things. You're best bet is to not be available 100% of the time. If you want her back that is. If she mentions coffee or anything you don't have to run to her.


Yes I do want her back. I most likely am overanalyzing things for sure.

I'm definitely not contacting her today (aside from the contact we already had this morning). I'm just curious how to respond if she texts about supper.

And I don't really see a need to contact her this week at all except to get my son back. The big question is the BBQ. She invited me this morning...but should I wait to see if she asks again if I am coming before committing? Or should I just make arrangements to be there on Saturday even if I don't talk to her for the rest of the week?

My Step-SIL thinks this was all great news this morning, and that I should be at the BBQ and be fun and playful with the W. She thinks the signs from this morning were very positive.


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Yes I do want her back. I most likely am overanalyzing things for sure.
> 
> I'm definitely not contacting her today (aside from the contact we already had this morning). I'm just curious how to respond if she texts about supper.
> 
> And I don't really see a need to contact her this week at all except to get my son back. The big question is the BBQ. She invited me this morning...but should I wait to see if she asks again if I am coming before committing? Or should I just make arrangements to be there on Saturday even if I don't talk to her for the rest of the week?
> 
> My Step-SIL thinks this was all great news this morning, and that I should be at the BBQ and be fun and playful with the W. She thinks the signs from this morning were very positive.


When she invites, you should say yes.

When she demands/acts entitled, you should say no.


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## happyman64

Conrad said:


> When she invites, you should say yes.
> 
> When she demands/acts entitled, you should say no.


And if she just mentions it as if in passing make her be clear.

Just say "Are you asking me to go?"

Get it in her head that she is the one asking you.

Get it in her head that she wants you to come.

Get it in her head that she desires to be with you.



You can over analyze everything too much. You can also be so glad that she made contact that you respond too quickly ot too anxiously.

You need to slow all your responses down. DO not seem over eager for her contact.

Let her miss your coffee runs.

And when she comments or texts you. Stop. Think of a proper response. Then respond appropriately.

Have you guys established any boundaries or guidelines for this informal separation?

HM64


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## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> And if she just mentions it as if in passing make her be clear.
> 
> Just say "Are you asking me to go?"
> 
> Get it in her head that she is the one asking you.
> 
> Get it in her head that she wants you to come.
> 
> Get it in her head that she desires to be with you.
> 
> 
> 
> You can over analyze everything too much. You can also be so glad that she made contact that you respond too quickly ot too anxiously.
> 
> You need to slow all your responses down. DO not seem over eager for her contact.
> 
> Let her miss your coffee runs.
> 
> And when she comments or texts you. Stop. Think of a proper response. Then respond appropriately.
> 
> Have you guys established any boundaries or guidelines for this informal separation?
> 
> HM64


Yeah when she invited me to the BBQ, I didn't give an answer right at that moment, mostly because it was pending whether her dad would watch our son, which I still had to check into. I wonder now though if she will ask for confirmation at some point, or if the invite will just be forgotten.

We did not set any boundaries because there was no doubt in her mind at first that she was done and didn't want to ever be together again. The last time she said that was Saturday (9 days ago) when she stated that she didn't have intentions of ever getting back together. But a bit has happened since then. I think today she would still give the same response if asked, but she seems to be softening a tiny bit.

Again, there were no timelines or boundaries to the separation. This was/is a full on split headed for divorce. But like I said, she said those things when everything was right fresh and she had a lot of anger. The anger seems to have subsided and I haven't brought up the relationship talk since.


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Yeah when she invited me to the BBQ, I didn't give an answer right at that moment, mostly because it was pending whether her dad would watch our son, which I still had to check into. I wonder now though if she will ask for confirmation at some point, or if the invite will just be forgotten.
> 
> We did not set any boundaries because there was no doubt in her mind at first that she was done and didn't want to ever be together again. The last time she said that was Saturday (9 days ago) when she stated that she didn't have intentions of ever getting back together. But a bit has happened since then. I think today she would still give the same response if asked, but she seems to be softening a tiny bit.
> 
> Again, there were no timelines or boundaries to the separation. This was/is a full on split headed for divorce. But like I said, she said those things when everything was right fresh and she had a lot of anger. The anger seems to have subsided and I haven't brought up the relationship talk since.


Good. Do not talk about the relationship.

When you get a free minute just detail exactly what her gripes are with the marriage?

And do you feel her gripes are valid?


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## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Good. Do not talk about the relationship.
> 
> When you get a free minute just detail exactly what her gripes are with the marriage?
> 
> And do you feel her gripes are valid?


Well when we split the first time last October, there were a few things that she gave as reasons but it all boiled down to just not feeling like our relationship was loving (she pointed out not helping around the house enough, not getting up in the morning to help with child, not showing each other enough affection, fighting to frequently, me being zoned out on technology all the time (reading on ipad, computer), not accepting her for who she is and being judgmental).

Yes I felt most of these were valid. I had my epiphany last time and really worked on myself. I became a much better father (not that I was a bad one, but I am much more involved), I helped out more, I showed her more love and affection.

However, as mentioned earlier, we got busy again and started a business which took focus off of us. Suddenly neither of us had time for the house, stress of the business frustrated us. We eventually started to slip back a bit.

But this most recent breakup, she was feeling neglected. We would fight about things and be disrespectful in fights.

Her biggest issue is that she didn't feel I loved her again. She got really jealous this last little while and thought I paid more attention to other females I knew than her. I became frustrated with this stuff and did pull away a bit. We just had a trip together 2 months ago now that we had fun on, and a camping trip a couple weeks later that she ended up having to miss because she just got a new job. But during that time, she texted me that she missed me so much and wanted me home, etc. I missed her too. But she did get upset that I didn't call her much while we were away. We texted but didn't talk much.

She felt I was too judgmental (actually that we both were) and she was right. I don't like that she smokes and I used to get on her about that a lot in the past, and even though I don't anymore, she always assumes I'm upset about that when i'm not. Any time each of us was upset, we would automatically think it was because the other person was the cause of it. We didn't open up and talk to each other about issues, we'd bottle them and then have obnoxious fights and say hurtful things.

When we got back together, she said she loved the new me. I wasn't angry and frustrated all the time anymore. I was more understanding and calm. I had fallen back into being frustrated as did she.

Trying not to write a book, I hope that answers the question.

Bottom line: Not enough love and making each other feel special. She felt neglected with everything else going on.

And yes, she has legitimate reasons. I agree with her assessment but would love to try and make it work...and I think it could - no doubt in my mind!

But she feels like we've ben together 8 years, why would anything change now? We got back together, and things slipped again, so why would this time be any different?

Well for one, I made improvements last time, but I made one big mistake again. I got myself focused on something else again. I've done this since I was 20 (31 now). I'm constantly chasing an entrpreneurial dream. I always throw myself into other things outside of my day job. I knew this caused problems before, and I wasn't going to do it this last time...but SHE brought up wanting to start this business, and of course, I JUMPED on the idea. I thought "finally, she wants to as well...let's do it!" So we started this business together...but it was a mistake. We weren't strong enough again yet to hangle it. We should have spent the summer focusing on US and family...and instead we spent it worrying about this business and being very busy.

SO we lost our focus on repairing our relationship, and ended up back here.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Well when we split the first time last October, there were a few things that she gave as reasons but it all boiled down to just not feeling like our relationship was loving (she pointed out not helping around the house enough, not getting up in the morning to help with child, not showing each other enough affection, fighting to frequently, me being zoned out on technology all the time (reading on ipad, computer), not accepting her for who she is and being judgmental).
> 
> Yes I felt most of these were valid. I had my epiphany last time and really worked on myself. I became a much better father (not that I was a bad one, but I am much more involved), I helped out more, I showed her more love and affection.
> 
> However, as mentioned earlier, we got busy again and started a business which took focus off of us. Suddenly neither of us had time for the house, stress of the business frustrated us. We eventually started to slip back a bit.
> 
> But this most recent breakup, she was feeling neglected. We would fight about things and be disrespectful in fights.
> 
> Her biggest issue is that she didn't feel I loved her again. She got really jealous this last little while and thought I paid more attention to other females I knew than her. I became frustrated with this stuff and did pull away a bit. We just had a trip together 2 months ago now that we had fun on, and a camping trip a couple weeks later that she ended up having to miss because she just got a new job. But during that time, she texted me that she missed me so much and wanted me home, etc. I missed her too. But she did get upset that I didn't call her much while we were away. We texted but didn't talk much.
> 
> She felt I was too judgmental (actually that we both were) and she was right. I don't like that she smokes and I used to get on her about that a lot in the past, and even though I don't anymore, she always assumes I'm upset about that when i'm not. Any time each of us was upset, we would automatically think it was because the other person was the cause of it. We didn't open up and talk to each other about issues, we'd bottle them and then have obnoxious fights and say hurtful things.
> 
> When we got back together, she said she loved the new me. I wasn't angry and frustrated all the time anymore. I was more understanding and calm. I had fallen back into being frustrated as did she.
> 
> Trying not to write a book, I hope that answers the question.
> 
> Bottom line: Not enough love and making each other feel special. She felt neglected with everything else going on.
> 
> And yes, she has legitimate reasons.


Both of you are putting too much stock in what the other one does or does not do in response to your kindnesses.

It's called giving with expectations.

It's a one-way ticket to emotional hell.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Both of you are putting too much stock in what the other one does or does not do in response to your kindnesses.
> 
> It's called giving with expectations.
> 
> It's a one-way ticket to emotional hell.


Sounds about right.

(I edited and added more to my previous post after you replied)

And because of this, we find ourselves often frustrated with the other because of those expectations.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Sounds about right.
> 
> (I edited and added more to my previous post after you replied)
> 
> And because of this, we find ourselves often frustrated with the other because of those expectations.


It's called codependence.

What was her childhood like?

How about yours?


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> It's called codependence.
> 
> What was her childhood like?
> 
> How about yours?


Definition fits most of the bill.

My childhood was good. My parents divorced when I was 17 which was my last year of high school before I moved out...so it didn't affect me too much as far as day to day was concerned. I did resent my mother for a long time after for leaving. But my childhood was good.

Hers was a little different. Her dad left when she was young and basically moved across the country and started a new life. She was raised by her mom and stepdad. Her mom still hasn't forgiven her dad for leaving...25 years later and takes shots at him when possible. And neither has she. She says her dad is her step-dad, and her biological dad is simply a "donor". She has a relationship with him. But he's on eggshells. She turns on him pretty easily again if he slips up.

In fact right now, she is on non-speaking terms with both her brother and her bio-dad. Her brother because he tore into her about breaking up again and acting single and not being a mother. Told her to get her **** together basically. He was definitely a bit over the top and isn't the most sensible guy with words at all. But she hates him for that now and says she won't ever talk to him again. Which is sad because him and his wife were basically our best friends. We hung out all the time.

Her dad has been living down here with her brother for work because there's little work back home for him. He goes home every couple weeks to see his wife and other daughter. He just came back down the other day and texted me that we needed to chat about the business (her dad and brother were involved too) so I met him the next night. She was very angry with him that he didn't let her know he was back (he had only been back for 2 days) and that he would text me but not her. So she's not talking to him right now either.


----------



## Conrad

She's an angry person.

That doesn't mean she "gets" mad.

It means she "is" mad.

The people that hurt her aren't around anymore, so she needs a stand-in.

You starting to get the picture?


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> She's an angry person.
> 
> That doesn't mean she "gets" mad.
> 
> It means she "is" mad.
> 
> The people that hurt her aren't around anymore, so she needs a stand-in.
> 
> You starting to get the picture?


Sigh...yes. I am. 

She really isn't normally though. She's a very personable person and people like her. She's a very "happy" person day to day. But she definitely does let things get to her that she should maybe not harp on, and she can NOT let things go. So it builds up.

I'm far from perfect too. I know I've contributed to our unsuccessful relationship and I can let little things bother me too much as well. And I know this about myself and want to get better in that respect.

Also she's never really held a grudge against her brother. He says a ton of ignorant crap to her jokingly (brotherly love) that she always gets over and it doesn't affect their relationship long term. But this time he went overboard and was serious...said some mean stuff to her and told her to lose his number until she grew up. He was very abrasive about it. But she is NOT the type of person that is going to listen to criticisms in the first place. She's very touchy that way.


----------



## BeYou

So what do you suggest Conrad? I don't want to give up just because she has some anger issues from her past haunting her. Obviously counselling is a must if we get back together. That is one thing I am not wavering on.

When we got back together late time, that was the plan...but then things were going to well I didn't want to relive the old issues. I regret that decision.

She suggested once earlier on too that we should go see a counsellor and didn't.

The night of our last big fight, I booked an appointment for us. I gave it a few days before telling her, but when I finally did, she said she was done, wasn't interested in counselling. So I cancelled the appointment. I've since booked it again just for myself.


In other news, haven't talked to her since this morning. I haven't contacted her, she hasn't contacted me either. So I'm guessing supper is a no go.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad...to be honest, I think I was more the "mad" person than she was. Not so much this last time around, but it was one of my faults previously. If people annoyed me, or we were doing something I didn't feel like doing...I'd pout. She was always ready to have a good time and fun for the most part.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou

Stop taking all the blame. You are both in this mess together and can share the blame 50%.

And Conrad is right on the money.

You both need counselling. You both need to focus on each other and the marriage.

And I am amazed that she could so easily be done after having been a by product of divorce. But what is right in front of your face is the hardest to see.

And my friend, you are definitely the current man that is a target for her anger.

Get into counselling. Convince her of that. Tell her it is for her. Not for "us".

Good Luck

And go play football.


----------



## BeYou

So pretty good night. I came home and was getting ready for football, and wasn't planning on going for supper, but then last minute figured I better just check to see if she's expecting me so I don't leave her hanging. So I just called really quick and said "are you expecting me for supper?"

She said "I thought so yes, why are you not coming?"

I said "well I just wasn't sure if there was an invite for sure. If there is, sure. She said "yes you are invited."

I said okay, see you shortly, I'm just getting some stuff together for tonight, can't stay long.

So I went for supper quickly with her and our son. We were happy and friendly. I didn't bring anything up. She asked when I'd be done football, and to call and come back later to chat when our son was asleep. I said why, what are we chatting about? She said she told me she was going to tell me how she was feeling. I said okay, call you when I'm done.

I went and played football, had a good time. Made plans to go for drinks with the boys later after our quick chat. Called her and asked if she still wanted to chat, because I was going to go with the boys at some point. She said sure, but you can go if you want.

So I stopped by for a little bit. We sat in the backyard and had a couple drinks. Didn't end up talking about relationship or feelings at all. Just chatted, things were friendly, and just some good conversation.

She mentioned maybe we could go golfing together Friday morning before the ball tournament...and also suggested maybe going for a drink thursday after she gets off work.

When I left to go meet the boys, I said if you want to go golfing, just set up a tee time and let me know.

Left, didn't initiate a hug or anything. Just thanked for the chat and drinks and left.

So overall a pretty positive night I think. Not going to contact her at all tomorrow. My son is back with me tomorrow so that always makes it a little easier.


----------



## happyman64

Positive, Yes.

Keep it light. Enjoy the dates.

Do not hustke your wife and just see what happens.

I like that your wife is asking you and pursuing you.

Take that as a good sign.


----------



## BeYou

So she texts me early this morning and invites me over for coffee before work.

Unexpected.

I said I'll see what time I finish getting ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> So she texts me early this morning and invites me over for coffee before work.
> 
> Unexpected.
> 
> I said I'll see what time I finish getting ready.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting???


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Interesting???


So I did stop by for a coffee. We just had a friendly chat, played with my son, played some cards with the W. Was pretty good.

My son at one point says, "you guys don't like each other, why are you hanging out."

She said "it's not that we don't like each other bud, but it's complicated, you won't understand."

Anyway, left with a happy goodbye and she told me to have a good day.

A few minutes later I get a text saying "you took my rings."

I don't think she was looking for them specifically, but I think she probably went to her jewellery box and just noticed now that they aren't in there. 3-4 weeks ago when I was still living there, I was cleaning the house and went to put on of her (non-marriage) rings away and noticed her engagement ring and wedding band in her jewellery box. I took them out and put them somewhere else...one, with the hope I could put them on her finger again some day, and two, I wasn't comfortable with rings that value sitting in such an obvious place.

Anyway, now she's pissed off about this. Frick...


----------



## BeYou

She finally answered her phone. She is pissed because she doesn't like what my intentions were with moving the rings. She says if I was really just moving them for safe keeping, I would have told her. True.

I don't understand why she is SO pissed about this. She said she already had to deal with her brother's nonsense again this morning.

I told her I don't want to be treated like this. It's not a big deal, the rings are still there, I don't have them.

Anyway, after saying she didn't want to talk about it today, she agreed to text me when she gets to work so we can talk in person.


----------



## BeYou

So had a chat with her. I asked her to tell me how she was feeling and why the ring issue bothered her.

She said because she just went to her jewellery box to look for something else, and they were just gone.

Last time we split, I took the rings in a fight after we had split and told her it was because I gave those rings to my wife, and if she was choosing to not be my wife anymore, than she didn't deserve to keep them...and that I was still paying for them (debt), so if they were going to get sold, it was going to be by me to pay them off. I had no intention of selling them, I always hoped for the day I'd get to put them back on her finger. I kept them for the whole 4 month separation, and gave them back to her about 2 weeks after we got back together.

She said this morning, she thought it was the same thing as last time, that I took them for the same reasons again.

I asked her why they are so important to her now. She said because they were very important to her at one time.

She was very upset this morning because of that and her brother. She was shaking when I first saw her. I was able to calm her down, and went for a quick breakfast together.

I feel like today was a giant step backwards, after what started to appear as a giant step forwards.

She was still talking about things in the future by herself. It doesn't sound like she's thinking of "us" even a little bit. So maybe all these recent invites and gestures are nothing more than her feeling guilty. I was hoping it was meaning so much more.

Instead of golfing Friday morning now, she says she has to finish building her parents deck. We build a pool deck for them, and there are a few cosmetic things left to do. They are having this BBQ on Saturday and want the deck finished. I told her I would come help. I feel obligated because it was me who started and built the deck, so I should probably help finish it.

Today just feels crappy now because we have shown ZERO anger towards each other for a couple weeks now, and today changed that.

Now she JUST texted me and said "what did you say about me on Facebook?"

I didn't say a single thing on Facebook. The only thing I have posted in weeks was about a highschool classmate who recently passed away.

Wow this has taken an odd turn today. Definitely looks like she's looking to me to place her anger again.


----------



## Conrad

And you are still basing all your emotions on every single twitch she makes.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> And you are still basing all your emotions on every single twitch she makes.


Crap. You're right.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Crap. You're right.


Read the first post in this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/53610-male-leadership.html


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Read the first post in this thread:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/53610-male-leadership.html


Good read, but am I missing something specific I was supposed to pick up on?

It's great advice for a couple who is together, I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from it now though.

I definitely am her protector...from hurt, anger, and pain. I always want to fix those things. However, many times I am the source of it if I do something unthoughtful, or call a name in a fight.

The part I'm assuming you wanted me to take away was about not letting little setbacks get in the way of the end goal. Correct?


----------



## happyman64

BeYou,

You are not her protector. You are her punching bag.

There is a difference.

And you should have told her where the rings are. That is water under the bridge now.

Conrad is right, stop jumping.



> My son at one point says, "you guys don't like each other, why are you hanging out."
> 
> She said "it's not that we don't like each other bud, but it's complicated, you won't understand."


Can I make another suggestion. Stop letting your wife put her spin onto everything, especially your son's interpretation of what is going on in your marriage.

That is just wrong for parents to do.

He understands a lot more than your wife does, that is for sure by his statement and her answer.

After her comment you should have interjected and said "Mommy and Daddy love each other and you very much. We are working together as a family at this very moment...."

You need to keep it positive and truthful. It shows your son that you both are there for him and each other. And even though you might not sleep in the same bed or house that you all love each other.

Keep the spin positive. And stop accepting her slant on everything. She is all over the place emotionally.

And both of you need to listen to your kid a little bit more because he is definitely aware of what is going on. 

Sometimes you need to put the child's needs ahead of either of your needs or emotions.

HM64


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Good read, but am I missing something specific I was supposed to pick up on?
> 
> It's great advice for a couple who is together, I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from it now though.
> 
> I definitely am her protector...from hurt, anger, and pain. I always want to fix those things. However, many times I am the source of it if I do something unthoughtful, or call a name in a fight.
> 
> The part I'm assuming you wanted me to take away was about not letting little setbacks get in the way of the end goal. Correct?


AND... not letting her momentary emotional swings take YOUR eye off the ball.

She wants you to be her rock... the Rock of Gibralter.

The Rock of Gibralter doesn't "jump" when a storm hits. The Rock of Gibralter doesn't "fix"

Did you read the Victim Triangle link?


----------



## BeYou

Nope, but will read that link now. Thanks for the advice guys.

As for the Facebook thing, I asked her why was directing so much anger towards me today, I didn't say anything on FB. She never "nevermind. It's ok. I'm not angry."

I said okay good, tell me what the hell your talking about later. She laughed and suggested going for drinks another night.

Conrad when you say she is looking to me to be her rock, what do you mean? It doesn't feel like that to me. Looking for me to be her rock seems like something a wife who was in love would do, look for her man to be there and comfort her. I'm not sure that's the case right now.


----------



## Conrad

Should have been more clear.

She's pushing you around right now and pulling your strings.

What will ATTRACT her to you and keep her that way are solid boundaries and being her emotional rock.

That means staying OUT of the circular Victim Triangle fire drills - the rings being a case in point.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Should have been more clear.
> 
> She's pushing you around right now and pulling your strings.
> 
> What will ATTRACT her to you and keep her that way are solid boundaries and being her emotional rock.
> 
> That means staying OUT of the circular Victim Triangle fire drills - the rings being a case in point.


Great read. So I am an SGR, and she is an SGP. But very obvious that we have moved around the triangle playing different roles just as it suggests. But there is no doubt about our starting "gates".

The rings being case in point...are you saying I was playing the rescuer in trying to prevent/protect her from doing something I feared with the rings? I should instead, tell her where they are and trust that she is capable to act responsibly, or face her own consequences?

What boundaries do I need to set? The triangle theory makes perfect sense, but just not sure where/how to start. And she views "boundaries" and me being controlling.


----------



## BeYou

It's our 2 year wedding anniversary, and 8 years together anniversary in exactly one week. Any thoughts on how I should handle that?


----------



## MSC71

BeYou said:


> It's our 2 year wedding anniversary, and 8 years together anniversary in exactly one week. Any thoughts on how I should handle that?


Ignore her totally on that day. I have a feeling you won't though. You will probably call her or send her a card letting her know how you feel, and it will make YOU feel better but it will only push HER further away. Seriously, back off, let go and quit pursuing her.


----------



## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> Ignore her totally on that day. I have a feeling you won't though. You will probably call her or send her a card letting her know how you feel, and it will make YOU feel better but it will only push HER further away. Seriously, back off, let go and quit pursuing her.


No not necessarily. I have been doing good not initiating contact and don't have the desire to right now at all.

The problem is, she has contacted (texts) me a few times today. So we've still talked pretty much every day.

And no I won't be giving her anything to let her know how I feel. I know any of that kind of talk is the enemy right now and just hurts my case.

I am letting go and not pursuing her anymore for at least this week to see how it goes. But like I said, she invited me for supper Monday, coffee in the AM on Tuesday, potential drink Thurs evening, golf Friday morning (already playing ball together Friday afternoon), and parents BBQ on Saturday. She's made all these invites casually, and isn't insisting I go, but still odd considering a week and a half ago she was saying we shouldn't be hanging out because she doesn't want to get back together.

Anyway, she is off work before me today, so I suspect when I go to pick up our son from her parents place, she will likely be there. Good chance they invite me to stay for supper. I think I'm going to politely decline.


----------



## MSC71

When she does text you, don't respond right away. Maybe you are already doing that, not sure. Just don't be so accesible and reliable every time she wants something. Let her text you a few times before you respond. If she asks why you didn't respond just say you were busy.


----------



## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> When she does text you, don't respond right away. Maybe you are already doing that, not sure. Just don't be so accesible and reliable every time she wants something. Let her text you a few times before you respond. If she asks why you didn't respond just say you were busy.


Wasn't doing that until tonight.

Took my son to a movie and on the way, she texted that a cheque was at the house for me. She joked and asked what she could buy. Then said she realized losing the business sucks but she just doesn't have time for it right now.

I didn't respond immediately, but made sure I read it so she could see I did. But I did respond about 15-20 min later with a short answer and then put my phone away. Haven't talked to her since.

Will continue not initiating contact tomorrow!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

I have a legitimate question. Many sites (DB especially) refernece doing a "180". If the W felt I wasn't effectionate enough, was "too busy" for family, and felt neglected...wouldn't doing the 180 mean I SHOULD be pursuing and planning dates for us? Isn't "no contact" just confirming what she believed and the reason she left?

Haven't talked to her today at all. Just pondering things that I read.

Not to mention that the last time we got back together, it was after hanging out a few times (initiated by me if I recall) and the fact that I was by her side when she needed someone.


----------



## Conrad

You are making the mistake of listening to what she says - instead of watching what she does.

The 2nd is much more indicative of her true emotions.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> You are making the mistake of listening to what she says - instead of watching what she does.
> 
> The 2nd is much more indicative of her true emotions.


Not sure which post you were replying to. When she invites me to things, is she saying or doing? 

She just texted me right now and said she put the cheque in the bank for me (business). I said "thank you, you didn't have to do that."

She said "I know."

I said "Well thank you. I appreciate it."


Conrad, is this the type of action you're saying to watch for. This seems like an act of kindness, for whatever reason.

(and before anyone says it...no she won't try and take money)

She just asked me to coffee now too.


----------



## BeYou

So went for coffee. She asked if we should go down to the bank to get her name off the business account. It hurt a little inside but I didn't show it.

Instead I said, well first we should probably get the bills in your name and the mortgage switched to your account. Those are likely higher priority. I was gauging to see how she would react to me suggesting that. She said okay, she'll need paper bills forwarded to her then.

I said okay, paused and then with a smile said "you sure mean business today, huh?"

She responded "it was you who brought up all the other stuff, I was just talking about the business."

It was all said with smiles and bugging each other. Then just had a friendly chat after.

Is she testing me right now? One day she invites me to things, next she deposits my cheque for me, but then wants to talk about getting her name off of the biz account (which really doesn't matter at this point). Is she fishing for me to be like "no no, please don't take these steps!"

I'm just going along with it. She works at the same place as me, which is a telcomm that our phone, tv and internet service is through.

She just called me right now saying she was looking at our bill and was contemplating making some changes (to make it cheaper). I kept my cool and told her to do whatever she wants, it's her service now (even though my name is on it). She said she was bored so was bugging me. I said "I'm sure we could go find a place to have some fun..."  She laughed and I ended the called saying "okay, well I'm gonna let you go now. Call me later if you need to."

I hate "dealing" with these things like the bills because it just seems like another step towards the end. But I think I handled it fine. I kept my cool.

At any point if we keep moving down this path, is it okay for me to stop and say "I'm not okay with doing this. I'm not okay heading for divorce. I want to fight for us."?


----------



## BeYou

Also she asked if I had seen a certain movie (sequel to others that we watched together)...I said no, hadn't seen it yet.

She said she watched it with her cousin and it wasn't as scary as she had heard, but said she should probably watch it again.

For a split second, I was almost expecting her to suggest we watch it together. I said I'd have to check it out, and left it at that.


----------



## BeYou

She just texted me "I'm starving."

Last week I would have ran and grabbed her something to eat and dropped if off. This week I texted back and said "me too."

I think I'm starting to improve.


----------



## happyman64

That's it Be You.

Stop being available. Stop running. Stop jumping.

Keep it up!

And do not flirt with her. Let he do all the work.......


----------



## happyman64

And get her out of your side business.

A shame you even started it to be honest with you.

Doomed from the start.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> And get her out of your side business.
> 
> A shame you even started it to be honest with you.
> 
> Doomed from the start.


It is a shame. It was a mistake.

The problem is, I have always had an entrepreneurial spirit. And I always wanted to have something to fill my spare time.

Before our son was born, I ran a football league and ran a large website that consumed my spare time. When he was born, I didn't stop doing either of those, and instead actually went back to finish my degree WHILE working fulltime as well. I was blind to it at the time, but she resented me for this. I wasn't there. She was a single mom. Her life changed, and mine didn't. I kept working, going to school, football, etc.

After I stopped running the football league, and sold the website...I "needed" another "hobby/business" so I started a web/graphic design business. This resulted in me being up late at night, not going to bed with her. If I had a project on the go, I obsessed over it and neglected everything else.

When we split last time, and got back together...I said to myself...alright that's it. Spare time is family time, no more chasing these business dreams.

But then a month in, SHE brought up the idea that we should start this business together. And I didn't have the mental capacity to think "bad idea!" Instead I thought, "hey, she's finally on board...let's do this!"

Right away I got to work making the website, getting licences, etc. We started working. Suddenly our son was basically at her mom's place all the time because we had to work on the weekends. During the weekend evenings, I was doing estimates and paperwork. We worked well together on projects, but had different styles on the paperwork. It did bring stress to our relationship. It took lots of time away from "us".

I look back now and HATE the fact that I jumped on it so bad when she suggested it.

So for now, I am still working on it a bit only because I have my own spare time, and the money may come in useful. But should we reconcile, I will be stepping away from this business and focusing on US. I hope I get that chance!


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> That's it Be You.
> 
> Stop being available. Stop running. Stop jumping.
> 
> Keep it up!
> 
> And do not flirt with her. Let he do all the work.......


Thanks!

No flirting? I figured this would be one of those things that would be advisable. "Being the guy you were when she met you."

The real me that she met was confident, maybe a tad ****y, who would flirt a bit, but would also be a smartass with a sense of humour...and witty. But also a big romantic once things progress to a "couple stage." Obviously that part is the part that started getting neglected when we got busy, or when frustrations rose.


----------



## Conrad

When Happy says "flirt", he means initiate flirting.

You may return fire as often as you wish.

In fact, the more humor you can muster, the better.

But, if you catch a glimpse of her and chase her down to tell her a joke, we'll both come and kick your behind.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> When Happy says "flirt", he means initiate flirting.
> 
> You may return fire as often as you wish.
> 
> In fact, the more humor you can muster, the better.


Gotcha.

Humour is natural to me. It's tough in these situations, but I'm known as the wise-ass in our group of friends, and the witty dude that can get the group laughing. It's harder when it's just her though.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> When Happy says "flirt", he means initiate flirting.
> 
> You may return fire as often as you wish.
> 
> In fact, the more humor you can muster, the better.
> 
> But, if you catch a glimpse of her and chase her down to tell her a joke, we'll both come and kick your behind.


Haha! There won't be any chasing and joking. 

I think I've gotten past the point of wanting to initiate contact now. I have no desire to unless there is something that NEEDS to be talked about...and even then I am sort of not looking forward to it.

I've officially got myself convinced that anything that happens between us needs to be initiated by her. It makes me feel better for one, and two...if she doesn't want to do something, then I don't want to do it with her, so there is not point in me trying to GET her to do things.

I am actually itching to turn down one of her invites...but not if they are few and far between. She mentioned today that she will see me tonight because she gets off work before I do, so she was going to go see our son (or pick him up and take him home) so I would see her when I go to pick him up. Again, if there is an offer to stay for supper, I think I will decline.

Or should I not be declining invites at this point? You said to accept invites, but decline demands/expectations.


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> When Happy says "flirt", he means initiate flirting.
> 
> You may return fire as often as you wish.
> 
> In fact, the more humor you can muster, the better.
> 
> But, if you catch a glimpse of her and chase her down to tell her a joke, we'll both come and kick your behind.


Thank you for explaining that to him COnrad.

Jesus, BU no wonder your wife gets crazy with you.

Do you have A.D.D.!
:lol:

And by the way, does your wife ever admit to being the one that suggested starting the new business? Does she take ownership of that fact?

It sounds like you both screwed up. Not you but both of you. That is important.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Thank you for explaining that to him COnrad.
> 
> Jesus, BU no wonder your wife gets crazy with you.
> 
> Do you have A.D.D.!
> :lol:
> 
> And by the way, does your wife ever admit to being the one that suggested starting the new business? Does she take ownership of that fact?
> 
> It sounds like you both screwed up. Not you but both of you. That is important.


It's interesting you ask that, because she doesn't really. However, she does admit to being interested in it. Our business was supposed to merge with her brothers/dads/uncles business and she was very much involved and pushed for that merger. She would be vocal in meetings about how to do things and what not. So she was committed to it.

And she's never said she regretted the business either. It's more me that has looked at it as one of the issues. In fact, like I said, last night she said it sucks to lose the business.

And yes, we both made that mistake (among others).

And no to A.D.D. Hey a cat!


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> It's interesting you ask that, because she doesn't really. However, she does admit to being interested in it. Our business was supposed to merge with her brothers/dads/uncles business and she was very much involved and pushed for that merger. She would be vocal in meetings about how to do things and what not. So she was committed to it.
> 
> And she's never said she regretted the business either. It's more me that has looked at it as one of the issues. In fact, like I said, last night she said it sucks to lose the business.
> 
> And yes, we both made that mistake (among others).
> 
> And no to A.D.D. Hey a cat!


That's it. Keep your sense of humor.

Yes, I figured your spouse did not see it that way.

When someone sees things their own way, they usually end up on the highway!

Alone.

Stay frosty BU!


----------



## BeYou

I know I'm not supposed to let her affect my emotional state. But as the days draw near to her invites for "drink after work Thurs" and "BBQ Saturday" I'm worrying a little that these days will pass and nothing will come of them. Of course if I was to pursue it they would, but I won't.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I know I'm not supposed to let her affect my emotional state. But as the days draw near to her invites for "drink after work Thurs" and "BBQ Saturday" I'm worrying a little that these days will pass and nothing will come of them. Of course if I was to pursue it they would, but I won't.


Do not pursue her and the dates.

If she mentions them, let her know you are available.

Ask her this way "are you asking me to attend?"

Or " Would you like me to be there?"

Make her say that she wants you there. She needs to ask.

Do not be anxious and keep your emotions in check.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Do not pursue her and the dates.
> 
> If she mentions them, let her know you are available.
> 
> Ask her this way "are you asking me to attend?"
> 
> Or " Would you like me to be there?"
> 
> Make her say that she wants you there. She needs to ask.
> 
> Do not be anxious and keep your emotions in check.


I won't pursue it at all.

As far as saying "would you like me to be there?" I'm 99% sure her answer would be "if you want to be, totally up to you."

How do I respond to that?

I'm thinking, "Unless you would really like me there, I'll pass. I don't want to make things awkward or have people wondering."


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I won't pursue it at all.
> 
> As far as saying "would you like me to be there?" I'm 99% sure her answer would be "if you want to be, totally up to you."
> 
> How do I respond to that?
> 
> I'm thinking, "Unless you would really like me there, I'll pass. I don't want to make things awkward or have people wondering."


You say to her " I asked you a yes or no question."

You make her say yes or no. That will end her game.


----------



## happyman64

BU

If it a yes and the BBQ is at her parents house.

Call her Dad or Mom and ask if you can help them setup or if there is anything you can bring for the BBQ.

No matter what they say bring something unique.

Like a good bottle of wine or an awesome dessert.

Do not call your wife.

HM64


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> You say to her " I asked you a yes or no question."
> 
> You make her say yes or no. That will end her game.


Good call. I like it.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BU
> 
> If it a yes and the BBQ is at her parents house.
> 
> Call her Dad or Mom and ask if you can help them setup or if there is anything you can bring for the BBQ.
> 
> No matter what they say bring something unique.
> 
> Like a good bottle of wine or an awesome dessert.
> 
> Do not call your wife.
> 
> HM64


Also a good call!


----------



## BeYou

At some point, do you have to let her know how you feel? Not begging or whining. But if you continue to do what we are doing right now, which is invites for coffee or a drink here or there...does there come a point when you need to tell her or show her that you still want to make this work? Or ask her to try MC now?

I'm not talking about doing this now at all, but I'm just curious. My step-SIL keeps giving me the opposite advice of what I'm getting here. I think the advice here is the correct advice, so I'm following it. Her advice is to tell her exactly how I feel and make her feel special and loved.

But the other night we had a "date" to talk about how she was honestly feeling, and vice versa. I went, but instead we just sat around the fire, had a couple drinks, and just had a great conversation with each other. She mentioned we should trim the one dogs hair because I was there (he gets matted up easy and we used to team up to cut his hair). Then said, nah it's dark, next time you're here. But we never had the feelings conversation. She never brought it up, and I was too scared to ask.

Should it just be left alone now, or do we need to lay it out for each other?


----------



## J Valley

OP,

I like your story. I am hoping to see a happy and positive ending. Just keep working on it. Don't force or put pressure on yourself to express your feelings. When the time is right, you will know it. For now, just go with the flow. The time will come.

All the best.


----------



## happyman64

BU

Let her bring it up.

Let her want to speak about the future.

And stop being afraid. Be confident, self assured.

And do this for your own self esteem. Not for her attention.

It is now all about you. And believe me, if she has any feelings for you she will notice and comment.

And if you do go this weekend be that confident, self assured guy she fell in love with.

And if she notices the change and asks you whats up tell her this

"I realize that no matter what happens with us I will be ok, in fact, I will be great!"

And walk away smiling. Because she will want to engage with that guy.

Go be great. You only get one life my man.

HM64


----------



## BeYou

J Valley said:


> OP,
> 
> I like your story. I am hoping to see a happy and positive ending. Just keep working on it. Don't force or put pressure on yourself to express your feelings. When the time is right, you will know it. For now, just go with the flow. The time will come.
> 
> All the best.


Thank you J Valley. It's so tough, but I hope in the end, we can find each other again.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BU
> 
> Let her bring it up.
> 
> Let her want to speak about the future.
> 
> And stop being afraid. Be confident, self assured.
> 
> And do this for your own self esteem. Not for her attention.
> 
> It is now all about you. And believe me, if she has any feelings for you she will notice and comment.
> 
> And if you do go this weekend be that confident, self assured guy she fell in love with.
> 
> And if she notices the change and asks you whats up tell her this
> 
> "I realize that no matter what happens with us I will be ok, in fact, I will be great!"
> 
> And walk away smiling. Because she will want to engage with that guy.
> 
> Go be great. You only get one life my man.
> 
> HM64


Thanks HM64. She's mentioned the changes when we went out that first Saturday. But she's seen this before, that's what makes this time so much more difficult.

Last time we separated, she told me she was SO jealous of who I'd become...in otherwords, I was me again. The guy I wanted to be. Not the guy burdened with frustrations and mad at the world.

When we went out that Saturday a few weeks ago, she commented that I'm so different and happier. But she takes it as kind of proof that we don't bring out the best in each other.

Anyway, trying to stay the course. Will give update in next post.


----------



## BeYou

Last night she texted me about Friday to find out what was going on with the ball tourney and when to work on the parents deck. I said I could go over first thing in the morning and work on it. I asked if she still wanted to sneak 9 holes of golf in and she said we can try.

This morning she asked if she could borrow the truck (asked a few days ago if she could borrow it today) because she's helping her parents clean up the yard for the BBQ. So she has my truck, and I have her car at work today. She said there was enough gas to get me to work (as it was almost on E). I didn't tell her, but I stopped at a gas station and filled up her car for her. Maybe a mistake? But I just felt like doing something nice for her. Plus it costs 1/3 of what my truck costs to fill, haha!

Anyway, she hasn't brought up going for a drink tonight since Monday night. So I'm thinking it's not gonna happen. And while she has talked about the BBQ, she hasn't asked since Monday if I am coming or not.

Mornings are always tough. To be honest, I'm feeling a little weird about her being the one to initiate contact all the time. At what point do you stop not initiating contact if she has started? If she is contacting me, maybe she is reaching out. But if I don't reciprocate, is she going to give up and turn the tables back on me?

She seems willing to hang out and do things now...so it feels weird that I should not take advantage of that.

I didn't stick around long at the house this morning, just dropped off our son, chatted for 30 seconds, swapped vehicles and left.

I hate not being able to read if she is being friendly out of guilt, friendly because she really has moved completely on and just wants to be friends, or friendly because she's unsure in her mind what to do and is trying to slowly rebuild things. The "being friendly and nice, and chatting and hanging out...but not being able to touch or hold each other" is frustrating.

When I decided to stop pursuing, I was looking for small positive signs...and I got them. She started pursuing a little bit. I recognized those signs and was happy for them. But it seems the last few days have been stagnant. Not progressing at all.

Patience is my friend. But I'm not a very good friend to patience.


----------



## Conrad

Still sounds like you are recording her every twitch - looking for signs.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Still sounds like you are recording her every twitch - looking for signs.


I am still looking for signs, yes. Watching for small, positive signs. I feel like if you aren't watching for them, they may happen and you won't notice.

It's easy to dwell on the last time we talked about "us" a few weeks ago, which was that she was done, and didn't ever want to get back together. But as you've said, actions speak louder than words right now. And her actions as of late may be hinting at a different story.

I know you guys are suggesting basically ignoring her and focusing 100% on myself, and only responding to her minimally, but never initiating. But it's not that easy to commit to that 100%. I still have to see her to exchange child, sometimes at work, etc.

I have taken steps in the right (I hope right) direction by not initiating any contact since last weekend basically. I'm not questioning where she is. I'm living my life and not sulking in bed all day. But there's no denying that she is on my mind all day, every day.

And I still fear that this strategy may not be right for this situation. The situation in which she felt neglected, not getting enough attention from me, too busy for her...and now we're suggesting the solution is to do more of that. She worried I didn't love her...it feels like I am validating that. It feels like a game. It is a game.

I've read some of the success stories and a few resulted in the dumpee at some point saying "I don't want this divorce" and the dumper breaking and admitting they don't want it either, but were too afraid/shamed to say it because of how much they hurt the other person. I sometimes wonder if there is a point that I need to do that instead of just going along with it. I know right now is not the right time, but maybe there will be a time and I don't want to miss it.

Sorry, I realize I am a frustrating person to give advice to. But I'm just speaking outloud here. It helps to get it out of my mind and onto (virtual) paper.


----------



## Conrad

If you get the response you are seeking, you won't have to look for it.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> If you get the response you are seeking, you won't have to look for it.


I knew this was going to be the reply.  Thank you for not letting me dance around it.


----------



## BeYou

She just msged me asking if she could leave some of the scrap wood in the back of the truck until tomorrow so she could pick some garbage up from "my house (as in her house)."

I said yes and "your house?"

She replied back "The house."

I replied that I was just bugging her. But it did rub me wrong a little bit.

When we were splitting and I moved out, I said I didn't need much and offered to give her everything (house (net worth $100k), belongings, etc) in exchanged for no/lenient support payments. But she told her brother at that time she wasn't going to do that. We haven't really officially had a chat about how this is going to work. And of course I am praying it doesn't have to go there, and we decide to try again.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> I said yes and "your house?"


Stop this.


----------



## BeYou

There have been two things in my mind lately. I'd like some opinions on them...

When I grabbed my clothes and left that night, she wasn't home. I told her I was doing it. But in the middle of the night I get some texts and she is angry I just left and with our son. She was shocked. She didn't think I was actually going to leave that night.

I just kinda left and didn't look back. Haven't talked to her about coming back, or anything. Should I maybe at some point say "I'm moving back home, this is my house as well. I'm not the one who wanted to end this. It's your choice to leave or work on it."


And the second thing is, as I mentioned, I stopped initiating contact since the weekend. But we've still seen each other and/or texted every single day since then. Do I need to cut her off completely? I don't want to do this, because I don't want to damage anything that MAY be building. But at the same time, what if she is doing the whole "cake eating" thing. I am still there when she calls, when she needs to borrow the truck, when she invites me for coffee, etc. I don't want to be an ass about it, but she likely hasn't really missed me at all. But I'm worried if I did this, she would just write us off for good and carry on.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Stop this.


Man I'm confused. I thought me saying that was equivalent to "not letting her put her spin on things" and "not being a doormat."


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Man I'm confused. I thought me saying that was equivalent to "not letting her put her spin on things" and "not being a doormat."


Arguing about words like "mine" and "ours" is needy-type thinking.

She's rejected all that.

Cool... calm... emotionless.

Bugged by NOTHING she says or does.


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> Stop this.


Conrad is right. Do not do that. You are engaging in a fight to get a reaction/attention from her. That will only result in pushing her away.

Stop.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> There have been two things in my mind lately. I'd like some opinions on them...
> 
> When I grabbed my clothes and left that night, she wasn't home. I told her I was doing it. But in the middle of the night I get some texts and she is angry I just left and with our son. She was shocked. She didn't think I was actually going to leave that night.
> 
> I just kinda left and didn't look back. Haven't talked to her about coming back, or anything. Should I maybe at some point say "I'm moving back home, this is my house as well. I'm not the one who wanted to end this. It's your choice to leave or work on it."
> 
> 
> And the second thing is, as I mentioned, I stopped initiating contact since the weekend. But we've still seen each other and/or texted every single day since then. Do I need to cut her off completely? I don't want to do this, because I don't want to damage anything that MAY be building. But at the same time, what if she is doing the whole "cake eating" thing. I am still there when she calls, when she needs to borrow the truck, when she invites me for coffee, etc. I don't want to be an ass about it, but she likely hasn't really missed me at all. But I'm worried if I did this, she would just write us off for good and carry on.


BeYou

The way I see you and your wife carrying on reminds me of two sisters fighting over the same doll.

You gotta chill out a little. Slow Down. You are over thinking everything which makes you your own worst enemy.

Yes. That was a crappy way to walk out on your wife, especially taking your son with you.

And No. She cannot write "us" off so easily because you have a child together.

Did you ever think that your wife might feel like she has two kids in this relationship.

Your comment over the " my house" is proof of that?

Again, chill out.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BeYou
> 
> The way I see you and your wife carrying on reminds me of two sisters fighting over the same doll.
> 
> You gotta chill out a little. Slow Down. You are over thinking everything which makes you your own worst enemy.
> 
> Yes. That was a crappy way to walk out on your wife, especially taking your son with you.
> 
> And No. She cannot write "us" off so easily because you have a child together.
> 
> Did you ever think that your wife might feel like she has two kids in this relationship.
> 
> Your comment over the " my house" is proof of that?
> 
> Again, chill out.


HM64.

You guys are right on the house comment.

However, the leaving with child thing isn't what it sounded like. I told her the day before that I would move out that night. But then I ended up going our with a couple friends that night, so I told her I would probably crash there that night, but would leave the next night.

The next day, she texted and said "we can't keep living like this."

Me: "If you want me to go, just let me know."

Her: "What do you mean?"

Me: "I mean move."

Her: "You don't have anywhere to go."

Me: "I can go to ____'s."

Her: "This sucks. Why did it have to come to this?"

Me: "It does suck. I wish it didn't and I want to make it work."

Her: "It's too late. I can't do it anymore."

So I told her I would move then. She went out with friends that night, and didn't come home until 2:30am (I assume because this is the time I got the first text). We texted for 30 minutes back and forth. The next day she apologized to me for being mad about it.

So it's not like I "swooped" and did it to get her. I did it for her. She was just shocked that I actually left. She said I said I was going to leave the week before and I didn't, so she didn't think I was serious this time either and it was a shock to just come home and I/we were gone.


----------



## BeYou

Want to hear a little tidbit that REALLY sucked?

So while we were still living together, but the bomb had dropped and we were done, I went out to a friends place for a bit one night, and she went out with some cousins and friends late. I went home to bed. She rolled in at 7am after falling asleep at her cousin's place. We had a bit of a text fight that night due to some things that happened with me and a female friend during our last separation.

Anyway, that morning, she went back to bed. I was sleeping on the couch. I gave it about 20 minutes, and I went in the room and kissed her on the forehead. She woke up and looked at me and reached for a hug and a kiss. I was shocked. I just started in her eyes, and she stared back. I said "are you awake?" She said "yes." I kissed her again and asked if I could come lay down and cuddle her and she said yes.

I was like "whoaaaaaaaa...is this really happening???" I crawled in and cuddle with her. I couldn't sleep. Too worried that she was not really awake, but just "sleep talking" or something. So I got up a while later and did the same thing later, gave her kiss, asked her if she wanted breakfast. She said no, but again kissed and hugged. I went back a third time (this is over 3-4 hours) and asked if she wanted to go to our favourite place for brunch, and she said "yeah we could do that."

So I felt as though I had "tested" 3 times and made sure she wasn't just sleep talking.

When she got up, she was on the computer playing a game. I came up behind her and put my arms around her and gave her a hug and kiss on the head. She pauses, and says "I can't do this."

"You can't do what?"

"I can't be all touchy and feely. I'm done, we're done."

I was floored and crushed all over again. She said she wasn't really awake earlier, and didn't know what she was doing.

Man oh man. Went from being hurt in the morning, to sooo happy late morning, to crushed again by noon.


----------



## happyman64

> However, the leaving with child thing isn't what it sounded like. I told her the day before that I would move out that night. But then I ended up going our with a couple friends that night, so I told her I would probably crash there that night, but would leave the next night.
> 
> The next day, she texted and said "we can't keep living like this."
> 
> Me: *"If you want me to go, just let me know."*
> 
> Her: *"What do you mean?"*
> 
> Me: *"I mean move."*
> 
> Her: *"You don't have anywhere to go."*
> 
> Me: *"I can go to ____'s."*
> 
> Her: *"This sucks. Why did it have to come to this?"*
> 
> Me: *"It does suck. I wish it didn't and I want to make it work."*
> 
> Her: *"It's too late. I can't do it anymore."*
> 
> So I told her I would move then. She went out with friends that night, and didn't come home until 2:30am (I assume because this is the time I got the first text). We texted for 30 minutes back and forth. The next day she apologized to me for being mad about it.


BU

Look at what you just posted. Remember what I said about two kids fighting.

Keep that in mind and just read the bold parts.

There you go. My point exactly.

And I am going to say this as well. If you really wanted your marriage to work, not just make it look like you really do, you would never have left.

SOmetimes in love you have to do the ultimate surrender. You have to truly look at yourself, look at all your actions like:

Hanging out with the boys or girls.
Going out drinking without the spouse.
Acting single sometimes.
Foolish acts or grand gestures of love like you are both in high school still.

None of these things make a marriage strong. None of these things make your spouse love you or trust you. They are camouflage.

You and your wife need to seriously look inside yourselves and decide if you both are mature enough, strong enough and committed enough to make your relationship work. 

Because if you and your wife do not have those key elements in your marriage, your relationship is doomed.

You two need to look at yourselves first and truly think about what is important to each of you.

Then have an honest conversation together while looking at each other with both eyes open, no bs, no lies only truth.

That is what friends do.

HM64


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Want to hear a little tidbit that REALLY sucked?
> 
> So while we were still living together, but the bomb had dropped and we were done, I went out to a friends place for a bit one night, and she went out with some cousins and friends late. I went home to bed. She rolled in at 7am after falling asleep at her cousin's place. We had a bit of a text fight that night due to some things that happened with me and a female friend during our last separation.
> 
> Anyway, that morning, she went back to bed. I was sleeping on the couch. I gave it about 20 minutes, and I went in the room and kissed her on the forehead. She woke up and looked at me and reached for a hug and a kiss. I was shocked. I just started in her eyes, and she stared back. I said "are you awake?" She said "yes." I kissed her again and asked if I could come lay down and cuddle her and she said yes.
> 
> I was like "whoaaaaaaaa...is this really happening???" I crawled in and cuddle with her. I couldn't sleep. Too worried that she was not really awake, but just "sleep talking" or something. So I got up a while later and did the same thing later, gave her kiss, asked her if she wanted breakfast. She said no, but again kissed and hugged. I went back a third time (this is over 3-4 hours) and asked if she wanted to go to our favourite place for brunch, and she said "yeah we could do that."
> 
> So I felt as though I had "tested" 3 times and made sure she wasn't just sleep talking.
> 
> When she got up, she was on the computer playing a game. I came up behind her and put my arms around her and gave her a hug and kiss on the head. She pauses, and says "I can't do this."
> 
> "You can't do what?"
> 
> "I can't be all touchy and feely. I'm done, we're done."
> 
> I was floored and crushed all over again. She said she wasn't really awake earlier, and didn't know what she was doing.
> 
> Man oh man. Went from being hurt in the morning, to sooo happy late morning, to crushed again by noon.


See what I mean. You guys are just throwing mixed signals all over the place.

What you should have done is stopped her right there and said wait a minute. Look at what you and I just did. Not once, not twice but 4 times. 

You need to call her out on it, discuss what happened and why it happened.

You always let her finish by saying "I cannot do this anymore. I am done".

That just amazes me. And that is why you are in the place where you are right now. Not just you but the two of you.

*Where is Conrad when I need him???*


----------



## BeYou

She brought my truck to work and we met for coffee when she got here. There was some confusion over who was to have our son tonight (she works until 9pm). And confusion over where the vehicles are parked (long story).

Anyway, I did bring up the drinks tonight because we were trying to figure out how to swap vehicles. I parked hers in a pace she doesn't like late at night (we always park there during the day) and she parked mine in a place she knows some trick that I don't. We were having trouble figuring out what to do, so I just asked...are you still wanting to have a drink tonight, because if so, I'll just take your car now so it's not left there, and meet tonight after work at the casino (where she parked my truck).

So sounds like we might do the drink tonight. Yes I know I brought it up again.

She also told me today that she ran into a guy on Saturday at the bar whom she had a tiny thing with the last time we separated (she says made out only - when we got back together, she pointed him out to me one time without me asking and was pretty open about it so I believe her). Anyway, she said he said they should hang out again, and she said sure, but only as friends. Since then he hasn't contacted her, but her cousin went and Facebooked the guy and said "hey you should call (my W) this weekend to hang out."

She was telling me this because she said her cousin "threw her under the bus" and I asked how.

Why would she tell me this? To make me jealous? Are we "friendzoned" so deep that she thinks I want to hear about guys pursuing her?


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> So sounds like we might do the drink tonight. Yes I know I brought it up again.........


This leads to:



BeYou said:


> She was telling me this because she said her cousin "threw her under the bus" and I asked how.
> 
> Why would she tell me this? To make me jealous? Are we "friendzoned" so deep that she thinks I want to hear about guys pursuing her?


This


----------



## happyman64

Conrad is right. You asked for it.

BeYou are you guys legally separated???


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> See what I mean. You guys are just throwing mixed signals all over the place.
> 
> What you should have done is stopped her right there and said wait a minute. Look at what you and I just did. Not once, not twice but 4 times.
> 
> You need to call her out on it, discuss what happened and why it happened.
> 
> You always let her finish by saying "I cannot do this anymore. I am done".
> 
> That just amazes me. And that is why you are in the place where you are right now. Not just you but the two of you.
> 
> *Where is Conrad when I need him???*


I did call her out on it at the time. I said how can you do that 3 times and claim you didn't know? She said she honestly didn't, and that when she kind of came to later when she woke up, thought "crap..."

I said this proves you DO still have feelings for me, but they're buried in your anger right now. When you first wake up and aren't thinking about how mad you are at me, you feel love. Until you remember that you're mad.

When you suggest I call her out on it, are you suggesting I do that now? Or I just should have done it then? It was 3.5 weeks ago.

When she went to work today, she said "thanks for coming for coffee - I didn't invite you just so you'd pay (I paid)." I jokingly said, "I dunno about that. I think that's why you invite me for coffee all the time." She said no it's not the reason. I smiled and walked away, but wish I knew what the reason was.

I think she's screwing with me. I think deep down she's scared to lose me for good. But she's made her decision and she's too proud and scared to go back on it. She's doing just enough to keep me in the picture (coffee, random invites), but not enough to imply she wants any more than that right now. She wants her single freedom, without the fear of me being gone for good.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> This leads to:
> 
> 
> 
> This


I'm guessing this is supposed to be obvious, and in my haze I'm missing it?


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Conrad is right. You asked for it.
> 
> BeYou are you guys legally separated???


No. I am living at a friends place, but we haven't formalized anything. We do not have a separation agreement in place as of yet.

When we first were talking about it all ending, I looked one up and started filling one out. And we talked about sitting down and doing one. It was mostly me suggesting we get one done up, but it was in the middle of all the emotions, and I think just me trying to scare her into the reality of it.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> I did call her out on it at the time. I said how can you do that 3 times and claim you didn't know? She said she honestly didn't, and that when she kind of came to later when she woke up, thought "crap..."
> 
> I said this proves you DO still have feelings for me, but they're buried in your anger right now. When you first wake up and aren't thinking about how mad you are at me, you feel love. Until you remember that you're mad.
> 
> When you suggest I call her out on it, are you suggesting I do that now? Or I just should have done it then? It was 3.5 weeks ago.
> 
> When she went to work today, she said "thanks for coming for coffee - I didn't invite you just so you'd pay (I paid)." I jokingly said, "I dunno about that. I think that's why you invite me for coffee all the time." She said no it's not the reason. I smiled and walked away, but wish I knew what the reason was.
> 
> I think she's screwing with me. I think deep down she's scared to lose me for good. But she's made her decision and she's too proud and scared to go back on it. She's doing just enough to keep me in the picture (coffee, random invites), but not enough to imply she wants any more than that right now. She wants her single freedom, without the fear of me being gone for good.


How will she ever miss you if you simply refuse to go away?

If you won't go away, SHE WILL PUSH YOU AWAY.

If you keep coming back, the annoyance will build to the point where she will push you away for good.

Why is this not clear?

You keep saying you're on this, and you keep running AND PAYING for coffee.

Doormat behavior.


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> How will she ever miss you if you simply refuse to go away?
> 
> If you won't go away, SHE WILL PUSH YOU AWAY.
> 
> If you keep coming back, the annoyance will build to the point where she will push you away for good.
> 
> Why is this not clear?
> 
> You keep saying you're on this, and you keep running AND PAYING for coffee.
> 
> Doormat behavior.


BU

Are you listening? Conrad is right.

Your wife has all these smart little comments to trigger you.

No more coffee. And when she makes those comments walk away.......

HM64


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> How will she ever miss you if you simply refuse to go away?
> 
> If you won't go away, SHE WILL PUSH YOU AWAY.
> 
> If you keep coming back, the annoyance will build to the point where she will push you away for good.
> 
> Why is this not clear?
> 
> You keep saying you're on this, and you keep running AND PAYING for coffee.
> 
> Doormat behavior.


But the thing is, she's the one inviting me? If she wanted me to go away, why does she keep inviting me?

I know I brought up tonight, but it was her who initially suggested it. And it was her to asked if I wanted to go for coffee. I was just saying the vehicle thing didn't need to be figured out if we were meeting up anyway. I gave her the option of whether she wanted to still go or not.

I don't run and deliver coffee's anymore. But I do pay if we go. The previous advice was to "go if she invites you." So that's what I am doing.

You're saying she invited me, I inquired about a previous invite, and because of that she tried to push me away with a story about a guy?


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BU
> 
> Are you listening? Conrad is right.
> 
> Your wife has all these smart little comments to trigger you.
> 
> No more coffee. And when she makes those comments walk away.......
> 
> HM64


So just cut off the coffee invites? Start being "busy"?

As for the comments, it didn't seem to have malicious intent at all...just conversation. I would have felt like a bit of a ass just turning and walking away.


----------



## BeYou

You guys are right. I need to cut her out of my life. I'm hinging and waiting on every word. Waiting and hoping for every invite. Offering and giving to every request. When the invites are plentiful (like Monday) I feel great. But when things are "slower" I get antsy.

She just texted me again. This is my issue. I can't go NC because she's still texting me multiple times a day for random things. Some things because she needs something/answer...others just conversation-like.

I worry that if I tell her to stop contacting me...that she will. And if she's not contacting me, and I'm not contacting her. Then how the hell will we ever develop something again?

We got back together last time after I initiated a couple "dates" which we went and had a good time on.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> So just cut off the coffee invites? Start being "busy"?
> 
> As for the comments, it didn't seem to have malicious intent at all...just conversation. I would have felt like a bit of a ass just turning and walking away.


You missed Conrads whole point.

By bringing up the coffee she put you in a position to test you/stress you by bringing up another guy!!!!!

Stop putting yourself in those positions.

How is she ever going to miss you/realize that she desires to be with you if you are always there for her.

Haven't you ever heard the saying "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"??????

Maybe you haven't????


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> You missed Conrads whole point.
> 
> By bringing up the coffee she put you in a position to test you/stress you by bringing up another guy!!!!!
> 
> Stop putting yourself in those positions.
> 
> How is she ever going to miss you/realize that she desires to be with you if you are always there for her.
> 
> Haven't you ever heard the saying "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"??????
> 
> Maybe you haven't????


I have heard it, yes. I thought I was doing okay by "accepting invites, but not demands."

I've already committed to things through Saturday, so I will follow through with those. But I will start Monday with a "no thank you" to the coffee's if the invites continue. Or should I accept the odd one and not others? If I say no a couple times, she will stop asking.

I won't bother responding to this text she sent me. It was a statement, not a question. So doesn't NEED a response.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Conrad is right. You asked for it.
> 
> BeYou are you guys legally separated???


BTW, why did you ask if we were legally separated?




Seing as she is the one who wants this, I have been expecting her to initiate these types of things. Thus far she hasn't, at least not that she's presented me with.


----------



## BeYou

Also, I feel like I am willing to do this now and cut contact as much as possible.

Do I just do this suddenly out of thin air with no explanation, or do I talk to her first and tell her that I don't think her actions right now are acceptable, and that she is still my wife until otherwise legally dissolved. I am moving on with my life, and I hope she finds herself in this time. Etc, etc.

I am frustrated now with her "friend zoning" her husband while she frolicks around with other guys and sees no harm in hanging out now with a guy who she had a small fling with during out last separation. It shows she has very little, if any, respect for me...and I'm a little pissed off about it.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> BTW, why did you ask if we were legally separated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seing as she is the one who wants this, I have been expecting her to initiate these types of things. Thus far she hasn't, at least not that she's presented me with.


BeYou,

That was a yes and no question. I am going to assum you meant to say "no".

And she has probably not filed because she is not sure she wants to.

Now pay attention,

Are you going to the BBQ on Saturday?
Tell me what your schedule is for tomorrow and Saturday?


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BeYou,
> 
> That was a yes and no question. I am going to assum you meant to say "no".
> 
> And she has probably not filed because she is not sure she wants to.
> 
> Now pay attention,
> 
> Are you going to the BBQ on Saturday?
> Tell me what your schedule is for tomorrow and Saturday?


No we are not legally separated.

I don't know about the BBQ. She asked me Monday. I have a sitter available to go, but not going to go unless she asks me again.

Tomorrow, going to her parents house to work on their deck first thing in the morning. She will be there. If we have time, we might do 9 holes of golf. Have a ball tourney in the afternoon (1-5 likely). Not sure what the plan is after that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> No we are not legally separated.
> 
> I don't know about the BBQ. She asked me Monday. I have a sitter available to go, but not going to go unless she asks me again.
> 
> Tomorrow, going to her parents house to work on their deck first thing in the morning. She will be there. If we have time, we might do 9 holes of golf. Have a ball tourney in the afternoon (1-5 likely). Not sure what the plan is after that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok. Stick to the cleanup. Just get it done. I assume you will be invited to the BBQ. If her parents ask you to come then go.

If she gives you one of those oblique comments about the BBQ do not invite yourself.

Look her right in the eye and ask her " are you asking me to go to the BBQ with you?". Get her to say yes or no.

If she says yes. "Thank her and you would love to attend the BBQ with her."

Then get all prettied up for Saturday. Be on your best behavior. Help her parents. Take care of your kid. Be the best Dad and on in law that day. Bring a nice bottle of wine or a dessert and give it to her parents. 

But do not engage your wife unless she engages you. Stay busy but give her space. And watch her actions. Stand back and observe her and see if she is observing you.

And when the party is over put your kid to bed and tell her and your inlaws you had a great time. Thanks for inviting me.

Then scoot.

If your wife texts you anything just turn off your phone and go to bed.

That should be your plan. Do not be a pest.......


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Ok. Stick to the cleanup. Just get it done. I assume you will be invited to the BBQ. If her parents ask you to come then go.
> 
> If she gives you one of those oblique comments about the BBQ do not invite yourself.
> 
> Look her right in the eye and ask her " are you asking me to go to the BBQ with you?". Get her to say yes or no.
> 
> If she says yes. "Thank her and you would love to attend the BBQ with her."
> 
> Then get all prettied up for Saturday. Be on your best behavior. Help her parents. Take care of your kid. Be the best Dad and on in law that day. Bring a nice bottle of wine or a dessert and give it to her parents.
> 
> But do not engage your wife unless she engages you. Stay busy but give her space. And watch her actions. Stand back and observe her and see if she is observing you.
> 
> And when the party is over put your kid to bed and tell her and your inlaws you had a great time. Thanks for inviting me.
> 
> Then scoot.
> 
> If your wife texts you anything just turn off your phone and go to bed.
> 
> That should be your plan. Do not be a pest.......


Thank you for the advice. It makes sense. Our son won't be there, but everything else is good.

Should this happen, all of her cousins and brothers will likely go out that night to a bar, I think they're already making that plan. If she asks me to go, I assume I should respond the same? Only if she says she wants me to go?

I think she will likely be pretty impartial about me going to either. I think any invite at this point will be out of pure guilt. She will also assume I will be with our son that night so may not invite to the later activities because of that.

Plan is ready. Wil implement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSC71

Seems like you are in a catch 22. You act happy and go lucky and that is what she likes. But since you were not that way while married, it makes her think she's doing you a favor by divorcing. Been there done that. It sucks. Like you can't win no matter what you do. In the end, being happy and being the person you always wanted to be is the best route to go. If you get back together then great. If not, then you will be in a much better place mentally. Hang in there and try not to over analyze everything she says or does.


----------



## BeYou

Wow. I had a big post written about tonight and the browser crashed.

Tonight was crazy. Mixed between great times, crying, spilling of emotions, 7 year wounds surfacing, seeing "other guy", promises to talk again when sober, and a crack show a potential interest in councelling.

There is clearly a lot of emotion and anger still in her, and old wounds not healed.

Wow. Will update later.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Wow. I had a big post written about tonight and the browser crashed.
> 
> Tonight was crazy. Mixed between great times, crying, spilling of emotions, 7 year wounds surfacing, seeing "other guy", promises to talk again when sober, and a crack show a potential interest in councelling.
> 
> There is clearly a lot of emotion and anger still in her, and old wounds not healed.
> 
> Wow. Will update later.


Give us an update. I knew there was a reason she mentioned the "other guy". There always is.

Sounds like she is hurting herself worse than she is hurting you.....

Stand back. And listen to her......

Watch her actions.......


----------



## BeYou

A crack show? A crack showing I meant...lol.

Anyway, so we went for a drink last night...and ended up hanging out for 5 hours at the casino.

We were having a really good time together again. Somehow we go onto the topic that she still doesn't trust me about things that happened when we split 9 months ago because of something that happened 7 years ago. 7 years ago, we hadnt been dating quite a year yet, I was 24. Went to a work party which resulted in a ton of booze and hot tubbing. My intent was not to get too drunk... But mix booze and sitting in a hot tub, and I ended up super drunk. A girl who was a friend of a coworker liked me and we kissed that night. She was the initiator, and I stopped the kissing...but it happened a couple times. This was in the hot tub in front of everyone. I eventually got out of the tub and went in the house because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I started kind of bad mouthing this girl to some guys in the house...and she was standing right behind me. I apologize to her and left.

I felt very guilty about what happened. The next morning, I told my W (then girlfriend) that a girl had kissed me the night before. I downplayed it to not hurt her, but I had to tell her. As time went on, she heard from people that it was a big more than a girl just kissing me and me stopping it. I told her with more detail, but to this day she doesn't trust me because of that incident.

So now she doesn't trust me about the girl I went for coffee with when we split last time (10 months ago). I've never cheated on her since the hot tub kissing but she can't get passed that. I told her that I wasn't interested in anyone else while we were together, and that even though she doesn't believe me, I did and do love her deeply and she is the only one I want or wanted to be with.

She started crying so we both agreed to curb the conversation and just get back to having fun and playing games.

At one point, we went out for a smoke. And who shows up out there but this guy she's been hanging around with and who likes her. I've never seen him so I didn't know anything, but she told me and pointed him out to me. She wanted to go inside saying it would be awkward. She eventually admitted that they did kiss one time because she wanted to see if she felt anything, but says she felt nothing at all for him, and has told him she does not want to date. I thanked her for being honest (she could have not pointed him out, and not told me anything).

So we went back and played games and had an awesome time again. Throughout the night, she initiated many "high fives" if we'd win or something. It felt really good.

When we finally decided to leave, we got talking about "us" again outside. She said she notices who I am right now and loves it but it's not who I am in the relationship. That I don't hassle her about anything right now, but I judge her too much when we are in a relationship. (referencing smoking, etc). She also said she didn't want to go on trips, she just wanted to be happy at home because we could afford the trips when we had debts that needed to be paid off. She completely doesn't see that my point in booking the Vegas trip was for her and us to spend some time together. She brought up me spending money on tools again, saying it was a waste when she is being stressed out by debts. I always hated that she would call out the tools thing. Because for one, it maybe averaged less than a $1000 per year and I bought tools to work on things around the house, and we then had the tools to start the business. Meanwhile she would spend $200 a month on smokes, and likely $300 a month on "going out". I didn't understand how she could hold that over me when she was spending way more on way less worthy things.

Anyway, we had a long chat with lots of tears. I kept calm, she was angry about things not working out the way they were supposed to. She wanted to talk later when we had't been drinking, and agreed to talk more. I told her I had a counseling appointment next week, and asked if she would consider coming. She didn't answer right away, and the said we'll talk about it.

We both went our separate ways. I texted her goodnight, she responded "yup" and then texted me a few more times with anger about our relationship. I called her and said I just want to say goodnight and end the night on a good note.

And that's where we are at. Now she just texted me. So time to go work on this deck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Give us an update. I knew there was a reason she mentioned the "other guy". There always is.
> 
> Sounds like she is hurting herself worse than she is hurting you.....
> 
> Stand back. And listen to her......
> 
> Watch her actions.......


No, sorry...the "other guy" she mentioned earlier was a different guy. Last time we split she met a guy who she hung around with for a couple weeks a couple months after we split. She happened to run into him again last weekend and that's the one she told me about.

The "other guy" I referenced in that post is the current dude who is chasing her, and when I said "seeing other guy" I meant...we saw him last night. The update explains it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> A crack show? A crack showing I meant...lol.
> 
> Anyway, so we went for a drink last night...and ended up hanging out for 5 hours at the casino.
> 
> We were having a really good time together again. Somehow we go onto the topic that she still doesn't trust me about things that happened when we split 9 months ago because of something that happened 7 years ago. 7 years ago, we hadnt been dating quite a year yet, I was 24. Went to a work party which resulted in a ton of booze and hot tubbing. My intent was not to get too drunk... But mix booze and sitting in a hot tub, and I ended up super drunk. A girl who was a friend of a coworker liked me and we kissed that night. She was the initiator, and I stopped the kissing...but it happened a couple times. This was in the hot tub in front of everyone. I eventually got out of the tub and went in the house because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I started kind of bad mouthing this girl to some guys in the house...and she was standing right behind me. I apologize to her and left.
> 
> I felt very guilty about what happened. The next morning, I told my W (then girlfriend) that a girl had kissed me the night before. I downplayed it to not hurt her, but I had to tell her. As time went on, she heard from people that it was a big more than a girl just kissing me and me stopping it. I told her with more detail, but to this day she doesn't trust me because of that incident.
> 
> So now she doesn't trust me about the girl I went for coffee with when we split last time (10 months ago). I've never cheated on her since the hot tub kissing but she can't get passed that. I told her that I wasn't interested in anyone else while we were together, and that even though she doesn't believe me, I did and do love her deeply and she is the only one I want or wanted to be with.
> 
> She started crying so we both agreed to curb the conversation and just get back to having fun and playing games.
> 
> At one point, we went out for a smoke. And who shows up out there but this guy she's been hanging around with and who likes her. I've never seen him so I didn't know anything, but she told me and pointed him out to me. She wanted to go inside saying it would be awkward. She eventually admitted that they did kiss one time because she wanted to see if she felt anything, but says she felt nothing at all for him, and has told him she does not want to date. I thanked her for being honest (she could have not pointed him out, and not told me anything).
> 
> So we went back and played games and had an awesome time again. Throughout the night, she initiated many "high fives" if we'd win or something. It felt really good.
> 
> When we finally decided to leave, we got talking about "us" again outside. She said she notices who I am right now and loves it but it's not who I am in the relationship. That I don't hassle her about anything right now, but I judge her too much when we are in a relationship. (referencing smoking, etc). She also said she didn't want to go on trips, she just wanted to be happy at home because we could afford the trips when we had debts that needed to be paid off. She completely doesn't see that my point in booking the Vegas trip was for her and us to spend some time together. She brought up me spending money on tools again, saying it was a waste when she is being stressed out by debts. I always hated that she would call out the tools thing. Because for one, it maybe averaged less than a $1000 per year and I bought tools to work on things around the house, and we then had the tools to start the business. Meanwhile she would spend $200 a month on smokes, and likely $300 a month on "going out". I didn't understand how she could hold that over me when she was spending way more on way less worthy things.
> 
> Anyway, we had a long chat with lots of tears. I kept calm, she was angry about things not working out the way they were supposed to. She wanted to talk later when we had't been drinking, and agreed to talk more. I told her I had a counseling appointment next week, and asked if she would consider coming. She didn't answer right away, and the said we'll talk about it.
> 
> We both went our separate ways. I texted her goodnight, she responded "yup" and then texted me a few more times with anger about our relationship. I called her and said I just want to say goodnight and end the night on a good note.
> 
> And that's where we are at. Now she just texted me. So time to go work on this deck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You guys are going to go back and forth like this until you are totally sick of confessing each other's sins and cannot stand the sight of each other.


----------



## BeYou

Honestly, it sounds as though if we could just open up to each other and her trust me like I trust her...and communicate more on finances, we would be fine.

She has given me a lot more reason to have trust issues than I have given her...but she is the one with the issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Honestly, it sounds as though if we could just open up to each other and her trust me like I trust her...and communicate more on finances, we would be fine.
> 
> She has given me a lot more reason to have trust issues than I have given her...but she is the one with the issues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's because you continue to dig, dig, and dig for her approval.

Puts her completely in control and that's why you're so nervous.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> You guys are going to go back and forth like this until you are totally sick of confessing each other's sins and cannot stand the sight of each other.


You're right. Which is why I didn't want to rehash them over again. But last night I just wanted to listen and hear her out. Hear what she was upset about.

I agree it accomplishes nothing to keep rehashing them. Hence why I just want to go to a counselor and work on fixing, not reliving. We'll see what happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

Just talked to her. Thanked her for last night, said it was a lot of fun. She agreed. Thanked her for opening up to me and said next time we'll chat at a more appropriate time/place. She said no problem and agreed.

She sounds like she's in a decent mood today. Wasn't sure if she'd still be upset, but doesn't sound like it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Just talked to her. Thanked her for last night, said it was a lot of fun. She agreed. Thanked her for opening up to me and said next time we'll chat at a more appropriate time/place. She said no problem and agreed.
> 
> She sounds like she's in a decent mood today. Wasn't sure if she'd still be upset, but doesn't sound like it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Twitch, twitch, twitch, twitch, twitch....


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## BeYou

Just trying to give lots of detail man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> You're right. Which is why I didn't want to rehash them over again. But last night I just wanted to listen and hear her out. Hear what she was upset about.
> 
> I agree it accomplishes nothing to keep rehashing them. Hence why I just want to go to a counselor and work on fixing, not reliving. We'll see what happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh you two need more than going to a counselor. Though that would be a good start.

When 2 people are in love their should be no "others" that can get in between the marriage. Each time you guys separate you experiment with "others". ANd that leads to more issues of not trusting the other. 

Rinse. And repeat. You have to break that cycle.

And you know what else, when two people are in love and get married then start a family you need to change the married dynamic. Both spouses need to grow up and realize you are now parents.

What do good parents do they set good examples for their children.

In your case what would that entail?

-Stop the partying.
-Stop the drinking.
-Stop the gambling.
-Stop the unneeded spending.
-No vacations or trips.
-Get your debt under control.

Both of you need to do this. It takes two adults to have a successful relationship. That means you genuinely care for each other and respect each other.

It takes two mature parents to have a successful family. Two adults that realize their personal needs and desires are secondary to their families future growth and happiness.

So BeYou what is it gonna be? Are going to man up? Are you going to tell your wife that we both need to grow up and be more respectful of each other and be strong together for our son?

Then make the damn counselling appt. and tell her what time you are picking her up.

Show her action not words.

And if she says no then grow up and be a man and father without her by your side.

Enjoy your weekend and finish what you start this wekend.

HM64


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## BeYou

Thanks HM64. You're right across the board.

Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou,

Don't thank me. Listen to me. Listen to Conrad.

If you truly love this woman then listen. If you truly love your Son then listen.

If you truly want to keep your marriage and see it become something great. Then act!

No more games with your wife. ANd you need to send that message to her as well.

Get a MC appt. Then take her with you. You have to lead by example.

And on a side note. I hate smokers too. But with all the other issues that you have in front of you leave that till the end. And you should want her to quit so she is there for another 50 years for your son.


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## Conrad

The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expecting different results.


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## MSC71

so she has a problem with who you saw when you were split up, but she is doing the same thing and it's different somehow? Maybe I misread your post, but she can kiss a guy, go out but is upset you did it in the past.


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## BeYou

So it's done. Won't be going to the BBQ today.

She was going to try get a babysitter tonight so she could go out and party to celebrate her 21 year old friends boyfriend's 19th birthday! She's 29. Her cousin is 32 (has always acted 16 though). They are hanging around 19-21 year olds.

Anyway, I told her I will be watching our son. No way she is hiring a babysitter I don't know, to go party, if I am available to have our son.

We played baseball yesterday. It went okay. It was fun. But we drank a few beer and ended up having a huge, ridiculous fight last night.

I've been in denial about her partying and acting like a teenager. I knew she was, but was trying to justify it and not care about it because I felt if I told others, they would think less of her and want me to run away.

I've since apologized for last night because the fight got really stupid, and our son was around. We were spewing venom at each other (outside while he was inside). It was really stupid and clearly assisted by the drinks we had (our son was with grandma yesterday).

Anyway, I've always known my W likes to drink. It's bother me how much in the past and I've brought it up but she would get angry with me for it. When we are split, I try to "keep up" to she her I'm "accepting" and "fun". But this isn't right. Her friend that had come play ball with yesterday is crazy. W warned me she was "out there". Friend was bragging how she cashed out Retirement saving and blew it all on booze. W made a comment to her friend that in our relationship, she was the partier, and I was the mature one. I know she said it just to "be cool" with her friend, but it was true. My mother has told me numerous time that my W just wants to be a party girl. I always tried to defend my W and say no, she enjoys going for drinks, but she's not a party girl. Unmmm, yes she is. The fact that she is 29, going to clubs all the time, hanging out with 20 year olds, etc

I was always hoping she'd grow up. And if things were going well in our relationship, she would. She did have a wonderful family side as well.

Anyway. Talked to her this morning, apologized for last night. Asked of we could rewind and forget last night. But it's very clear she wants 0 to do with an R. So it's time to charge forward and quit hanging on to nothing.

I just need to move on and take care of my and myself.

Oh wait, you guys have been saying that all along. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> so she has a problem with who you saw when you were split up, but she is doing the same thing and it's different somehow? Maybe I misread your post, but she can kiss a guy, go out but is upset you did it in the past.


Yup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

The problem is that she has NEVER had consequences. Her dad wasn't around, and to this day, her mom and stepdad do everything and anything for her. She needs money, they give. She needs a place, they take her in. She does something not right, they close their eyes and if someone like her brother says something to them, they tell him to zip it. She's never been allowed to fail and have to face it.

She just told me the other day that she owes money for taxes. Her parents are going to cover it for her, and she can pay them to avoid the interest. But they won't ask for money from her. She'll pay a little here, a little there when she feels like it.

Well I was doing the same thing. Enabling her. I wouldn't let her fall either. Even when we were split. I would "Allow" her behavior. And anytime I brought up her behavior when we were together, it was grounds for a fight. Nobody can say a word to her, or they end up in her bad books...just like her brother is right now.

I caught myself doing it again today. She wants to go out and party tonight, so I am watching our son (or else she was getting a sitter). So I offered and said she could keep our son for one extra day because he was going to be with me tonight.

Well, NO. That's not how it should be. If she wants to go out and party when she has her son, then she would have to make a choice. Myself, I DO NOT make plans when I have my son. The only exceptions I have made was to go hang out with her.

Today I had a chance to go to a football game (pro) but I canceled now because I have my son.

Everyone enabled her to keep acting this way. I worry that she is going to really screw herself up. Everyone is. I had a chat last night after our fight with her dad, brother, and sister in law. They all agree she needs a psych, but nobody can say anything to her.

She's a lovely person at the core. But there is a lot going on on top of that. It's hard to see her do this and have no choice but to sit back and watch. But she has a LOT of growing up to do. And I've been lying to myself for a long time and trying to normalize her behavior in my head.

But she talks one way, and acts another.


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## Conrad

Don't listen to what they say.

Watch what they do.


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## happyman64

Lovely at the core means she loves your son and would do anytbing to be eith him and raise him right.

Stop making excuses for her.

Stop waiting for her to grow up.

Remember what i said about drinking and partying.

Time to man up BU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

Much easier to be in love with the delusion of what she is than the real thing.

The entitled princess.


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## BeYou

Yes you guys are right. And yes, I am in love with what "could be" and not who she actually is right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

BeYou said:


> Yes you guys are right. And yes, I am in love with what "could be" and not who she actually is right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was the same. When mine was gone I missed what could of been or what I thought we were capable of. Once I really started thinking about it, there was nothing I actually missed about her. I only missed the mess I created in my head.


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## BeYou

It's tough to let go and not think about what could be.

However, I've entered the next rage of grieving and I just find myself angry more than anything. She threw it all away so she can party. She starts "seeing" other people immediately. She leads me on, and then tells her mom I won't leave her alone. She makes sure she never looks like the bad guy, and her mom and stepdad buy into it. Everyone else sees the truth for the most part.

I only talked to her yesterday when she dropped our son off. She called and said she had to grab something out of my truck that she forget in there after ball on Friday. I said sure. She stopped by and I didn't bother even going outside to talk to her. And she don't bother coming to he door.

It's 9:30 and she is supposed to pick up our son this morning, but haven't heard from her. Likely stayed out all night and got hammered.

I'm done wanting "that" back. It's just so sad that this is who she is now. If she could grow up and take a look inside, things could be wonderful. Unfortunately, she's goon to screw herself up first, if growing up EVER happens. And then at some point, she's going to try and guilt me HARD about being broke and what not. Not falling for it. Quit blowing money on partying and get your priorities straight. Seriously a 16 year old in a 29 year olds body. The thing is, she does shows signs of being responsible at times and makes you think she's making good choices - until she doesn't have her son for a night, then it's back to irresponsibility.

Sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

The hard part about not wanting "that" back, is that she did this last time too...went party hardy, but when we got back together, she calmed down and focused on family again. And that's why I was forgiving this behavior this time again because I expected if we got back together, she would grow up again. I guess I see this kind of just as a "stage" that many people go through when they break up or have a crisis. You go out, drink, socialize to try and take your mind off things.

But there is nothing I can do to "snap" her out of this. He might just have to go hard for 6 months and burn herself out before she realizes what she's doing. I just pray she doesn't bring any idiots around our son. He needs to be #1 at all times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

So she finally texted after 11 asking what was going on with son. Called her, sick of texting. I went and dropped him off.

Of course she is wearing sweatpants and a skimpy tube top. Man oh man. I tried to ignore it...

I tried to have a quick and clean drop off and tried to rush out the door, but she stalled me, wanting to talk about changing days with our son and what not. I didn't just give in. I made her explain why. I also told her no more getting "extra days" when she goes out. If she gets a sitter, whether me or someone else, that still counts as HER day.

She asked when I wanted to have a talk, because I guess Friday I had mentioned we should have that talk when we weren't drinking. I said I don't think there is a need for it anymore. I said I know where you stand, and I'm moving on...so no need for that talk.

I couldn't stand it anymore and finally said "why the hell did you have to be wearing that right now??" with a big smile on my face. I said "I gotta go before I want to touch you." and I left.

Asked her after I had left that I should have asked if SHE had anything she wanted to talk about. She said there are a few things but they could wait. I said what are they. She responded, just life things like the house, the business, etc.

So she sounds ready to head down that road. I simply said, okay sounds good...just let me know when you want to have that chat.

It sucks...yes it does. But I'm finding myself, although very attracted to her physically still, less and less attracted to her as a person. She's cold-hearted, dishonest, and is focused on partying right now (hence the chat about our son because she's had him on weekends the last couple). I think it's pretty obvious that she has a thing going with this other guy. Whether it's a full out thing or just a touchy, friendly thing....I don't think there is anyway she would be this cold and certain in her decision unless she was getting that attention from somewhere else.

I know from my own experience how much someone else can make you feel like what is going on is no big deal, especially if your SO is still clinging on. The big "oh crap" moment comes when the SO decides enough is enough and moves on themselves. So that's here I'm at.


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## BeYou

I should mention too...the other day at ball, she grabbed my phone at one point and snooped my text messages. I caught her and said are you snooping? She puts on a big smile and said something about there not being any interesting stuff in there or something like that.

Why would she snoop my texts? She was obviously looking to see if there were any girls I've been texting, which there hasn't been.

Also, we play ball with another "couple". They were having this conversation where they were kind of taking jabs at each other, but joking. My W is like "awwww, that's what I want. Myou guys are so cute.". I looked at her and was like "what? That is EXACTLY what we were like....always poking at each other and what not.". She went on about it for a bit.

I eventually told her shhhh, enough.

I read a quote the other day that said something like "our insecurities are bread from comparing our behind the scenes Life with Everyone else's highlight reel.". It's sooooo true and my W is sooooo guilty of this. She would often reference other couples who had bigger issues than us, as if they were what we should aspire to be. Was always unbelievable to me.

I just have a hard time believing she is as "over this" as she portrays. All the invites last week, the snooping at my phone, etc. She is either forcing herself to put up a front, or like I said, distracted.

But the days of me being a doormat are over. I will still try to be nice and respectful, but not a yes man anymore. No matter what she is wearing.


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I should mention too...the other day at ball, she grabbed my phone at one point and snooped my text messages. I caught her and said are you snooping? She puts on a big smile and said something about there not being any interesting stuff in there or something like that.
> 
> Why would she snoop my texts? She was obviously looking to see if there were any girls I've been texting, which there hasn't been.
> 
> Also, we play ball with another "couple". They were having this conversation where they were kind of taking jabs at each other, but joking. My W is like "awwww, that's what I want. Myou guys are so cute.". I looked at her and was like "what? That is EXACTLY what we were like....always poking at each other and what not.". She went on about it for a bit.
> 
> I eventually told her shhhh, enough.
> 
> I read a quote the other day that said something like "our insecurities are bread from comparing our behind the scenes Life with Everyone else's highlight reel.". It's sooooo true and my W is sooooo guilty of this. She would often reference other couples who had bigger issues than us, as if they were what we should aspire to be. Was always unbelievable to me.
> 
> I just have a hard time believing she is as "over this" as she portrays. All the invites last week, the snooping at my phone, etc. She is either forcing herself to put up a front, or like I said, distracted.
> 
> But the days of me being a doormat are over. I will still try to be nice and respectful, but not a yes man anymore. No matter what she is wearing.


BeYou
There comes a time in everyone's life where a change is needed.

A new direction must be taken to make your life better.

If I had a 29 year old wife that wants to party more than she wants to be a wife or mother I would opt to make a change in my life.

A change for the better. A change to be happier. A change so my son would have a parents ndivided attention while he was with his parent.

So what are you going to do now?

Your wife is still playing games with you. And sadly with your family because her inaction hurts your son as well.

If it was my wife acting like this and we were not legally separated or divorced I know what i would do.

I would meet with her to discuss your son, your business and your house. And then when those items were covered and closed I would slide D papers across the table to her.

And I would say this " I love you but I no longer can respect you. I will not stay married to you while you party like a 16 year old and date other men. I will not stay married to you when you put your partying and friends before our son or myself.

Therefore I choose to Divorce you. I cannot wait for you to grow up. All your nonsense has shown me how much growing up you have to do. And I need to be the responsible parent for our son.

Goodbye."

Get up and walk away from the table no matter what she says or is wearing that day.

Do not answer her calls or her texts.

And stick to your guns. Because all your wife wants to do is screwing around while you keep bringing her cups of coffee so she can check your phone.

HM64


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## BeYou

Hey HM64,

I couldn't do that. She would hate me for it. It would sour our relationship so bad, and I need to ensure we stay civil.

What am I going to do now? What I should have done before. Back off. Look out for myself and enjoy my son. I was backing off from initiating contact last week...but she started initiating instead so it was still too easy to see her constantly. I still paid for everything even though she said no.

Since the fight on Friday, she hasn't contacted me aside from child swap. I expect this to continue so I don't think I'll have to worry about "what to say/do" anymore if she calls, texts, or invites. It makes me sad because we were able to hang out and be friendly, but this is likely for the better.

But no, I'm not going to serve her. At least not yet. I'm in no rush for anything and there are a lot of other things to worry about first. It's not like serving her is going to shock her into anything. It would just make things worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

What is the benefit of doing this though? It would degrade our relationship which I want to keep civil so as to not have to fight tooth and nail towards a resolve. If divorce is where we are headed, then fine. But why make it messy if it doesn't have to be???

That's a pretty big con of dpi g this, and I can't really see what the pro might be? Sticking it to her? Why? To lower myself to her level?

Not gonna happen unless you guys can convince what the purpose of doing that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

I should add, she's not a bad mother. When she has him, she is focusing on him. She is a really good mom. And what she WANTED our relationship to be, would have made a really good wife too. We both failed in our marriage...and I would even say me more than her. But she has failed and trying to salvage it.

Who she is being right now is not who she was. I mean she had faults for sure, but she's being more irresponsible now. I expect she will do this for a whole and will eventual snap out of it, but not before it's too late for us. I'm not willing to sit around and wait for a year. That is incredibly unfortunate.

However I will move on with respect and tact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

Also, you have to be legally separated for a year here before you can file anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

BeYou said:


> What is the benefit of doing this though? It would degrade our relationship which I want to keep civil so as to not have to fight tooth and nail towards a resolve. If divorce is where we are headed, then fine. But why make it messy if it doesn't have to be???
> 
> That's a pretty big con of dpi g this, and I can't really see what the pro might be? Sticking it to her? Why? To lower myself to her level?
> 
> Not gonna happen unless you guys can convince what the purpose of doing that is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


degrade your relationship? Divorce is where you are headed. You need to get that set in your mind. There is a big difference between being mean and being firm. Filing is not sticking it to her. I think everyone is saying it's time to man up and act like you have a pair instead of all this analyzing everything and wondering why she does this or says this. Doesn't really matter why at this point. She has zero respect for you. She strings you along because she can. This is not to be mean, just trying to get you to snap out of it.


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I should add, she's not a bad mother. When she has him, she is focusing on him. She is a really good mom. And what she WANTED our relationship to be, would have made a really good wife too. We both failed in our marriage...and I would even say me more than her. But she has failed and trying to salvage it.
> 
> Who she is being right now is not who she was. I mean she had faults for sure, but she's being more irresponsible now. I expect she will do this for a whole and will eventual snap out of it, but not before it's too late for us. I'm not willing to sit around and wait for a year. That is incredibly unfortunate.
> 
> However I will move on with respect and tact.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





BeYou said:


> Also, you have to be legally separated for a year here before you can file anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So start the process......



> Who she is being right now is not who she was. I mean she had faults for sure, but she's being more irresponsible now. I expect she will do this for a whole and will eventual snap out of it, but not before it's too late for us. I'm not willing to sit around and wait for a year. That is incredibly unfortunate.
> 
> However I will move on with respect and tact.
> Posted via Mobile Device


BeYou, serving her shows tact and respect. file for legal separation and discuss the conditions of the separation. Why? Because she is openly dating other men or is close too it already.

And you Guys are just playing games with each other. If she wants to come back to the marriage which is highly doubtful at this time set what your onditions are to do that.

Otherwise you are just wasting your time.


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## BeYou

I will go along with the legal separation yes. All I am saying is that I'm not going to go and call her out and talk down to her and try to be her dad right now. It's not going to solve anything, and will only make communicating with her going forward (son, house, etc) more unpleasant and hurtful.

Her brother already called her out. I saw how she reacted to that.

I am not analyzing things anymore. I'm not saying I'm going to keep doing that. I'm moving along, but I'm not going to be vengeful. That happened Friday night and wasn't good. So yes, I will move forward with separating legally, dividing assets, etc. I'm also not saying I won't file, just that the "stern father talk" about et behavior won't be a part of it as it won't go well. Trust me on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I will go along with the legal separation yes. All I am saying is that I'm not going to go and call her out and talk down to her and try to be her dad right now. It's not going to solve anything, and will only make communicating with her going forward (son, house, etc) more unpleasant and hurtful.
> 
> Her brother already called her out. I saw how she reacted to that.
> 
> I am not analyzing things anymore. I'm not saying I'm going to keep doing that. I'm moving along, but I'm not going to be vengeful. That happened Friday night and wasn't good. So yes, I will move forward with separating legally, dividing assets, etc. I'm also not saying I won't file, just that the "stern father talk" about et behavior won't be a part of it as it won't go well. Trust me on this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No one said be disrespectful to her. You would not want to treat her the way she treats you.

Put her on notice. 

You deserve better. Go and find it.

That is all anyone is telling.

Go and be happy.


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## BeYou

Agreed on that HM64. Thanks bud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

Man mornings are especially tough. I dream about her a lot. And of course in my dreams, things are rosy. But then you wake up, alone, and remember what is going on.

Horrible feeling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

Shocker. She's "seeing" this guy.

Says it's not serious but he treats her better than she's ever been treated, and they are getting closer.

Bet nobody saw this coming right?'
'
I can't talk to her about anything. She just gets immediately angry and pours on the blame.

It's disgusting who she has become. Just disgusting.


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## happyman64

BeYou

We are hundreds of miles away from you and we knew that.

Wake up. Smell the coffee. Because all you have been doing is picking daisies and running them over to her.

Do you like getting kicked in the balls???

Formalize your Separation agreement and detach from her.

She is dating another guy and still married to you. That should show you where you are in her priorities.

Stop acting stupid because I know you are smarter than that.

Move forward with your life and take care of your son.

That is all that matters at this time.

HM64


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Shocker. She's "seeing" this guy.
> 
> Says it's not serious but he treats her better than she's ever been treated, and they are getting closer.
> 
> Bet nobody saw this coming right?'
> '
> I can't talk to her about anything. She just gets immediately angry and pours on the blame.
> 
> It's disgusting who she has become. Just disgusting.


It hurts to have delusions crash and burn.


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## happyman64

And BE YOu,

Will you do all of us a favor.

Do not mope. Do not cry over her. She is not worth it.

All she has been doing for weeks is using you and kicking you in the nuts. And your response to her has been.

Please kick me harder.

Remember when I said you have to grow up and be a man.

Well here is your chance right now.

I will say it one more time.

Legalize your separation. Start the process today.
Formalize custody for your son.
Stop being your wifes friend. She does not deserve to have you.
Get the house and old business settled.
Only discuss the D and kid with your STBXW. Nothing else is her business.


I swear to you in a few months you will be happier. NOt because you can now date nor because you are her exercise bag.

But because you are free from her games.


But because you will be acting like a man. A man that loves his son and loves his life.

HM64


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## BeYou

I agree with both of you.

I've had enough. She is a disrespectful, lying, con artist. She is thinking ONLY of herself right now.

She had the balls to send me an email a few minutes ago saying "Please understand. I don't want to hurt you. Please don't take this as me trying to hurt you. Thats not my purpose. I am happy right now and thats what i want."

It is UNBELIEVABLE how out to lunch she is. It's unreal! Most everyone else sees it. But she thinks I should be happy for her. What kind of messed up psychological mishap is that???


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## BeYou

Emails going back and forth now...

I said I know she doesn't mean to hurt me, but doesn't change the fact that it is.

Said I want her to be happy too, but that this isn't right. Said I'm worried about her because she's partying all the time, and saying she's broke. And that I can talk to her without her getting angry.

She replied back "Wow you are low." That I always have an excuse as to why I'm concerned and it's BS. That she's not partying like crazy and not getting loaded when she does go out, she's taking care of her responsibilities. She's not always broke. I need to get over myself.

She says "I'm angry cause I have to deal with this. And we are not together. You had a chance to make me happy and we couldn't do it."

I had a chance? I. I had a chance to make HER happy. So...one...blame. It was all on me apparently, she didn't have to make me happy, it was just my duty to make her happy. Two...she was looking to me to be her only source of happiness.

This is just unreal to me. Why can't my wife open her eyes and look inside of herself? This is a trait passed down from her mom. Everything is the man's fault. Everything. No responsibility for herself or her actions. It's everyone else's job to make her life easy.


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## Conrad

Did you expect that reaching out to her "this time" would bring a different result?


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## BeYou

Sorry people. I was hoping to provide a "success story" for those who need to hear those.

The only success story here, is that my wife has exposed herself for who she really is, and that's given me the drive to get away and move on with my life.


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## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Did you expect that reaching out to her "this time" would bring a different result?


I didn't reach out to her this time. I hadn't really even talked to her since Friday night except for dropping our son off.

Tonight is her night, but my mom is in town and wants to go for supper with our son, so I had asked W if I could have him for supper...she works an hour later than me anyway, so I'd pretty much have him home by the time she was home. Her mom is watching our son today, so I said I would pick him up from there, and then drop him off at her house after (all talked about yesterday AM).

(Side note: This morning, I put on facebook "Doesn't feel right.")

This morning she texts "my mom needs to know who and what time our son is getting picked up." and "people have been asking me about your FB post"

I responded "I'll let her know" and ignored the second text. So I called her mom and told her I would pick him up at X time.

Well a little while later, she texts me "it's my night tonight. I would like to know what's going on. If this is something you're not going to share with me. Then you don't get to take him."

So I called her on the spot and said you need to quit this crap. I told you yesterday what was going on...your text said your mom needed to know...I wasn't withholding anything from you.

And then she said my facebook post made it sound like I was getting a lawyer and coming after her. WHAT????? I told her what I really meant by it, and then that started her going on about us and how it will never be and on and on...

Anyway...


----------



## happyman64

BeYou

If I lived closer to you I would stop by and slap you myself.

Conrad and I have told you what to do and you still do not listen.

Stop talking to your wife. Stop kissing her butt.

Stop texting your wife. Shut down FB.

Just discuss your son, the house and the old business acct.

File for legal separation.

She justs wants to be happy. Go let her be happy.

She can be happy without you in her life. She is a 29 year old party girl. She wants to date and be in love. Go let her make her own mistakes.

You both need to grow up. Without each other.

Just stop all the nonsense and let her go.

HM64


----------



## BeYou

I am man. I am not texting her. Like I said, I only responded by text that "I will let her know" and called her mother.

My call to her after that was not kissing butt...it was a warning to her that she better stop with the threats and the crap.

I have responded to her emails...but not kissing butt. I've also been looking for, and have emailed a L. So I am moving ahead with this.

I don't even want to see her face right now. I don't want to go "talk" about the house and biz. I seriously want nothing to do with her right now. She is ill in the mind right now

I don't even want to see her to drop my son off tonight. I might even give him and a hug and kiss outside, let him in the door and leave without saying a word to her.


----------



## Lynn2437

BeYou said:


> I am man. I am not texting her. Like I said, I only responded by text that "I will let her know" and called her mother.
> 
> My call to her after that was not kissing butt...it was a warning to her that she better stop with the threats and the crap.
> 
> I have responded to her emails...but not kissing butt. I've also been looking for, and have emailed a L. So I am moving ahead with this.
> 
> I don't even want to see her face right now. I don't want to go "talk" about the house and biz. I seriously want nothing to do with her right now. She is ill in the mind right now
> 
> I don't even want to see her to drop my son off tonight. I might even give him and a hug and kiss outside, let him in the door and leave without saying a word to her.


Granted everything with me happened on a much shorter timeline but there was a point that I wouldn't see her or talk at all unless it was about the kids/finances and even that was short and to the point. It helped alot. And I mean alot when it came to me moving on. I considered myself already divorced and starting a new life. She woke up but I was in already in the mindset she wasn't going to. Get there and whatever happens, happens.


----------



## happyman64

Wise advice Lynn. BeYou listen to us.

Move on. That is what is best for you.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Wise advice Lynn. BeYou listen to us.
> 
> Move on. That is what is best for you.


I am. Trust me, I am. Like I said, biggest issue now, is that I don't want to see or talk to her at all...not even about finances or child.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I am. Trust me, I am. Like I said, biggest issue now, is that I don't want to see or talk to her at all...not even about finances or child.


That is fine for now but trust me, the sooner you get this over with the better.

The key is to be all business and not get dragged into her drama.

And BeYou. Do not even think about dating until your emotions calm down. Set your priorities, focus on them and move forward with your life.

Reread some of the older posts. Follow them.


----------



## BeYou

Dating is not even on my mind man. I have a huge hole in my heart because of this. I have tried to look at other people the last week or so and think about whether I could imagine myself with someone else, and it's never felt right. It made me feel guilty for thinking it even.

I'll get there someday I'm sure, but man am I going to have a hard time opening myself up again.


----------



## BeYou

Question now is, do I go for full custody? Her brother seems to think I should. Just not sure that would be successful, but would maybe be the one thing that would make her realize what she's doing right now.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Question now is, do I go for full custody? Her brother seems to think I should. Just not sure that would be successful, but would maybe be the one thing that would make her realize what she's doing right now.


Still focused on her.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

BeYou how old are you? 

I know your wife is 29.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Still focused on her.


No, focused on my son. I need her to snap out of this in order for me to feel okay about him being with her half the time. I do not want to take him away from his mom, but if it would make her wake up and smell the beans and put him first, then it might be worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> No, focused on my son. I need her to snap out of this in order for me to feel okay about him being with her half the time. I do not want to take him away from his mom, but if it would make her wake up and smell the beans and put him first, then it might be worth it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If your wife is a decent Mom then leave it alone.

You really need to detach from your wife. It will be good for both of you.

Hopefully she will put in the time with your son.


----------



## MSC71

BeYou said:


> Question now is, do I go for full custody? Her brother seems to think I should. Just not sure that would be successful, but would maybe be the one thing that would make her realize what she's doing right now.


make her realize she made a mistake and come home? Nothing you say or do will make her see that. Time to look down between legs and see if your balls are still there. If they are, it's time to start using them and acting like a man. Sorry, not meant to be mean, but wake up !!!


----------



## J Valley

OP,

It is time for you to detach and move on. Your wife has put her interest ahead of her own family. IMO, that is a selfish thing to do. Your brother in law clearly saw this so you are not alone here.

Don't worry about letting the people in TAMs down due to this turn of event. To be frank, we just want you to happy, that is the ultimate goal.

Take care


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> Hey HM64,
> 
> I couldn't do that. She would hate me for it. It would sour our relationship so bad, and I need to ensure we stay civil.
> 
> What am I going to do now? What I should have done before. Back off. Look out for myself and enjoy my son. I was backing off from initiating contact last week...but she started initiating instead so it was still too easy to see her constantly. I still paid for everything even though she said no.
> 
> Since the fight on Friday, she hasn't contacted me aside from child swap. I expect this to continue so I don't think I'll have to worry about "what to say/do" anymore if she calls, texts, or invites. It makes me sad because we were able to hang out and be friendly, but this is likely for the better.
> 
> But no, I'm not going to serve her. At least not yet. I'm in no rush for anything and there are a lot of other things to worry about first. It's not like serving her is going to shock her into anything. It would just make things worse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow you are just not getting it man. YOu need to start listening to some ppl on this board because right now you're being played like a violin!


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> Sorry people. I was hoping to provide a "success story" for those who need to hear those.
> 
> The only success story here, is that my wife has exposed herself for who she really is, and that's given me the drive to get away and move on with my life.


You have also exposed who YOU really are: weak, needy, insecure and without boundaries. 

If I were you, I would stop blaming her so much and start blaming yourself for continuing to be her doormat.

Also realize that when men behave weak and needy and when men show their women that they NEED THE RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN THE WOMAN, that is when the woman feels his neediness and is REPULSED. 

That's whats going on here.


----------



## happyman64

Be You,

Are you ok with your wife dating OM?

Are you ok with your wife having sex with OM?

Do you consider yourselves not married because you no longer live in the same house?

Is she ok with you dating?

Is she ok with you shaving sex with OW?

She saw you having coffee with another woman and went nuts. But she is seeing another guy and that is ok????

I do not know if I can help you BeYou.

I do not know if you can help yourself..........


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> Be You,
> 
> Are you ok with your wife dating OM?
> 
> Are you ok with your wife having sex with OM?
> 
> Do you consider yourselves not married because you no longer live in the same house?
> 
> Is she ok with you dating?
> 
> Is she ok with you shaving sex with OW?
> 
> She saw you having coffee with another woman and went nuts. But she is seeing another guy and that is ok????
> 
> I do not know if I can help you BeYou.
> 
> I do not know if you can help yourself..........


Happy,

It's DIFFERENT when she does it.

Don't you see?


----------



## BeYou

forumman83 said:


> You have also exposed who YOU really are: weak, needy, insecure and without boundaries.
> 
> If I were you, I would stop blaming her so much and start blaming yourself for continuing to be her doormat.
> 
> Also realize that when men behave weak and needy and when men show their women that they NEED THE RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN THE WOMAN, that is when the woman feels his neediness and is REPULSED.
> 
> That's whats going on here.


You're absolutely right. That's how I've been for the last 3 weeks. However, I've turned a corner. She tried a couple times yesterday to use our son as a pawn...and said some pretty crazy stuff after telling me she was seeing someone.

I am not being the doormat anymore. I had it out with her on the phone last night when she tried to use my son as a pawn again. I told her I had been her doormat for the last 3 weeks, trying not to rock the boat, and what not...but that now, I am acknowledging that it's over and I'm glad it is...but there is no way in hell you're using our son in your game. I said you go ahead and scamper on your merry way, but the line is drawn when it comes to our son.

Not gonna get into details of what she was trying to pull...but I set some definite boundaries and have been looking for a L. And yes, I will be filing.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Be You,
> 
> Are you ok with your wife dating OM?
> 
> Are you ok with your wife having sex with OM?
> 
> Do you consider yourselves not married because you no longer live in the same house?
> 
> Is she ok with you dating?
> 
> Is she ok with you shaving sex with OW?
> 
> She saw you having coffee with another woman and went nuts. But she is seeing another guy and that is ok????
> 
> I do not know if I can help you BeYou.
> 
> I do not know if you can help yourself..........


No I'm not okay with what she is doing, and I told her that yesterday. But in her mind, the relationship is over and it's just a matter of time and money to finalize that legally. Yes, she considers us not married essentially. What can I do? I can't stop her from seeing this other guy. I can tell her it's irresponsible, disrespectful, and not okay, etc...and I have. But I can't stop her.

She does not respect "marriage". To her, marriage was a ring on the finger. She treats this like a breakup between a boyfriend and girlfriend in which once you say "it's over"...it's over and you're free to carry on.

Would she be okay now with me dating? Yes, she would. It would probably bug her inside a little I'm sure...but she wouldn't stop me. Like I said, she could not be more clear that we are over and will never be. So as far as she is concerned, we're both single.

Her seeing me have coffee was when her and I were still together, and was last year when we split...not this time. I haven't dated, gone for coffee, or done anything with anyone else this time around. I've been hanging out with strictly guy friends.

But I'm just not sure what you guys think I can do. On one hand you tell me to back off, move on with my life, file for D, and find happiness...but then you act as if there is something I should be doing about her seeing OM. What? What can I do? I'm doing all of the above...backed off, moving on, getting a L, not being a pushover when we do have to talk, setting boundaries and rules with regards to our son, etc. Yes this is all recent over the last couple days.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Happy,
> 
> It's DIFFERENT when she does it.
> 
> Don't you see?


In her eyes, no word of a lie, it is. Again, the coffee thing wasn't recent...it was last year.

However, she has always been a hypocrit. She hangs me for mistakes I have made, but expects complete forgiveness and forgetfullness when it comes to her dirty laundry. She still rings me out for something 7 years ago, when she's done worse more recently. I forgive, she doesn't.

But none of that matters anymore. She can go on her merry way and think she has all the answers to happiness. Some day things will crash for her. But I'm not sticking around and taking anymore of her BS. I'm done.


----------



## happyman64

> I'm doing all of the above...backed off, moving on, getting a L, not being a pushover when we do have to talk, setting boundaries and rules with regards to our son, etc. Yes this is all recent over the last couple days.


Conrad,

He is listening a little.......

BeYou stop whining about her. Do all of the above. Other than your son and divorce move her out of your life.

Our advice has not changed.

I guarantee you if you do these things and totally block her out she will notice.

Do it and stop talking about it.

You deserve better. So go find it.

Your wife is 16 years old. You married a mental midget.

Go find someone that has the same values as you.

HM64


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Conrad,
> 
> He is listening a little.......
> 
> BeYou stop whining about her. Do all of the above. Other than your son and divorce move her out of your life.
> 
> Our advice has not changed.
> 
> I guarantee you if you do these things and totally block her out she will notice.
> 
> Do it and stop talking about it.
> 
> You deserve better. So go find it.
> 
> Your wife is 16 years old. You married a mental midget.
> 
> Go find someone that has the same values as you.
> 
> HM64


LOL! Thanks for the smile.

The final straw came Friday night, and was strengthened Monday morning. I finally realized how little respect she has for me, and how she only thinks of herself at this time. I can be a selfish person at times too, so I certainly don't want to preach from a pedistal. But I am not attracted to who she is now - in fact quite the opposite.

She'll notice for sure, my change in attitude, me sticking up for things, not calling or setting things up. I'm sure she's likely started to notice that already. I'm not sure she'll care. But I don't care if she cares. My mind is made up.

Even last night, I was much more forceful with my words. I was not whining and pleading . I was to the point, not afraid to call her out on her BS, etc. And in return, she seemed to keep lower key. Instead of getting pissed at me and guilting me, she kind of listened. She did get a little pissed about a couple things, and hung up on me at one point. But I made my point and didn't back down. In the end she saw that it was in her best interest to follow my request. We ended the call respectfully. I think she saw that I wasn't going to kneel this time and let her walk on me.


----------



## BeYou

By the way, today is our 8 years together/2 years married anniversary. Haven't contacted her, she hasn't contacted me.

Feels weird to ignore it, but doesn't make sense to not.


----------



## Lynn2437

BeYou said:


> By the way, today is our 8 years together/2 years married anniversary. Haven't contacted her, she hasn't contacted me.
> 
> Feels weird to ignore it, but doesn't make sense to not.


I know it feels weird and it sucks but if she doesnt make the move to acknowledge an important date in your life and your relationship, doesn't it show how much she actually cares?

I hope you didn't contact her.


----------



## BeYou

I didn't contact her. Didn't acknowledge the date.

Called once to see where to pick up my son. She didn't answer. She texted me twice asking about me calling. I responded a couple hours later saying "no worries" and left it at that.

Mornings still suck. Had a dream we were together again last night. Woke up, it sucked. Went back to sleep and had an awkward dream that a group of us went out including her new "friend"...****ty dream.

Sucks that not long ago she claimed to love me. Now we don't talk because she's blinded with some infatuation.

It angers me. I hate having to see her and talk to her even. But she's watching our son while I work today so I'm going to have to see her twice. Plus he goes back to school next week so we are going to have to have a chat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

> *Sucks that not long ago she claimed to love me. Now we don't talk because she's blinded with some infatuation.*


BeYou

You are still doing it. Screw the chat and file. Start the process so you can start to heal.

Just take care of your son. 

And get rid of the debt.

HM64


----------



## Conrad

Happy,

Play-by-play is always a bad sign.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> BeYou
> 
> You are still doing it. Screw the chat and file. Start the process so you can start to heal.
> 
> Just take care of your son.
> 
> And get rid of the debt.
> 
> HM64


I am. I'm just thinking outloud there. I'm not saying I am going to chat, I'm just saying each morning is tough to wake up and remember where things are at right now.

She's watching him today so I had to drop him off this morning at the house. I kept happy and didn't really say much to her at all except about him. And I left fairly quickly. Was in the house MAYBE a minute.

2 minutes after I leave I get a text asking me if I want the fish tank. I had a 60 gallon cichlid tank. Let the purging begin.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Happy,
> 
> Play-by-play is always a bad sign.


True. Although at this point, it's just a matter of not abandoning the thread and people who have helped me get this far. I'm not running here looking for answers anymore...I'm just updating.

You guys may not think so, but I am moving on.


----------



## BeYou

After I said I'm not looking for answers anymore, I have a question... 

I'm having my first appointment with a counsellor tomorrow. When I set this up, I was in a different mindset. I'm still going, but just not sure what to talk about now? It's over, I'm moving on. Yes it still hurts like hell. But I don't know that I want to re-live the things that get me down. I've been trying to keep my mind OFF of the good times and the reasons I miss her.


----------



## Lynn2437

BeYou said:


> After I said I'm not looking for answers anymore, I have a question...
> 
> I'm having my first appointment with a counsellor tomorrow. When I set this up, I was in a different mindset. I'm still going, but just not sure what to talk about now? It's over, I'm moving on. Yes it still hurts like hell. But I don't know that I want to re-live the things that get me down. I've been trying to keep my mind OFF of the good times and the reasons I miss her.


This is the first thing I said to my IC,

"I want to figure out why the hell I got here and how never to be here again."

My marriage was "over" when I went the first time in the same mindset.


----------



## BeYou

Lynn2437 said:


> This is the first thing I said to my IC,
> 
> "I want to figure out why the hell I got here and how never to be here again."
> 
> My marriage was "over" when I went the first time in the same mindset.


Yes I think that will be my plan too. I do have a few questions about why I do certain things that I'm hoping she can help me control. I don't ever want to find myself in this position again, so I need to work a LOT on ME.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

Well had a chat with a L yesterday, and counsellor today.

L advised there is no need to rush and file, but getting an agreement in place would be a good idea. Says this is all still pretty fresh, and although it appears reconciliation is not an option right now, you just never know what happens 6-8 months down the road.

Hoping the counseling appointment goes well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Well had a chat with a L yesterday, and counsellor today.
> 
> L advised there is no need to rush and file, but getting an agreement in place would be a good idea. Says this is all still pretty fresh, and although it appears reconciliation is not an option right now, you just never know what happens 6-8 months down the road.
> 
> Hoping the counseling appointment goes well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good idea seeing the lawyer.

Are you ok being in the same spot 6-8 months from now?

That is what matters???

If you are ok with the situation then so be it.


----------



## BeYou

I don't have much choice hm64. As mentioned, you have to be separated for 1 year before divorcing. So whether you file tomorrow or in 11 months...doesn't change anything.

In 6-8 months I won't be in the same spot. Although I still desire to have my wife back and work towards a happy marriage, I understand that it's just not going to happen right now so I need to move on. We haven't really talked at all this week except for child exchanges or issues pertaining to him.

I'll admit, it felt a lot better last week when we were hanging out and she was inviting me to things. But that's just because I had hope that things were happening. The. Fight on Friday was a dagger, and probably pushed her towards OM on Saturday as she mentioned.

So I've got no choice but to move on. I'm still hopeful that some day she comes out of the fog...but I feel about as confident about that happening as I do winning the lottery...and I dot buy tickets. So trying to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

With those odds I would buy lottery tickets.

Then do what you have to and move on.

I would do a hard 180 to help yourself detach.

And BeYou, she needs to grow up. You cannot do that for her.


----------



## BeYou

You're right my man, she does. And I can't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> You're right my man, she does. And I can't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BUT... you CAN get yourself to grow up.


----------



## This is me

Conrad said:


> BUT... you CAN get yourself to grow up.


That is right. 


We can only change ourselves!


----------



## BeYou

Indeed we can only change ourselves. And that is what I am working on. Being the best me.

Chat with C went well today. She had some suggestions for me, but mostly just let me tell the story and vent. Booked another for next week.


----------



## BeYou

Day by day I am regaining my confidence.

I think I even had a few moments (maybe only minutes in length) yesterday in which I got caught up in something, and suddenly realized I hadn't thought about my "situation" for a bit. Normally it's on my mind LITERALLY ever second of the day.

My son is back with his mom tonight for the next 3 days and my "roomies" are out of town for the weekend. So we'll see how a quiet house is to deal with.

Of course my feelings change throughout the day, but right now I'm feeling more confident than I have in a while. Why? Because I'm beginning to feel some control back. I can't go make my wife want me or change her mind. But I can be the damn good looking dude with goals and drive that I am. She is free to do what she needs to do right now. I've got ME to work on. I'm not ready yet. I'm just getting started on getting ME back.

My plan tonight? Have supper, go for a jog and a small workout, hit up a bookstore and self help.

This isn't me right now. I'm talking about her not being herself right now? I'm not being MYSELF.

It's time to get ME back. If she comes out from her fog and sees me again for me...we can talk. No guarantees. I've got a lot to offer someone.


----------



## happyman64

And that is the key to everything.

Work on yourself.

Improve you.

Improve your situation.

And before you know it life starts getting better.

With or without her.


----------



## Mtts

I'm really sorry about your sitation but I'll reconfirm a few thoughts from my situation for you.

You should be the one to file for divorce. Take control of this situation. When faced with such a situation it'll force an ultimate decision. Separation is nonsense to me, as it only puts one in a never ending limbo. File and be done with it.

I don't think your wife is a bad person or that she's not worth it. I think she's currently living inside a fog that's been reinforced by friends and outside influences and you can't get through that by yourself. Until she's faced with actual reality she'll never really value what you offer.

Ignore her, plain and simple. Aside from your child, ignore her. If she gets off topic don't respond. Only respond to things that have to do with your child and the needs of that child.

This should be done for a few reasons. It's counterproductive for you to feed into her ego by asking or even talking to her about anything else. She'll just feel validated that you still have interest and you'll get it with both barrells. 
Second thing is it will introduce a foreign and scary idea for her. She doesn't get to know what you're up to or thinking or feeling. That's a bad place for anyone who care about another person.
Should any of this not bother her then you'll be on the road to recovery. 

So regardless of the outcome you'll be the one coming out on top. Life is all about finding balance and happiness in our own life. We can not count on others to do this for us nor can we try and make others be and act like the people we want them to be. Your wife has a lot of personal growth to go through and maybe right now that means she needs to be single and partying. Believe me when I say I understand EXACTLY what that aspect is doing to you. If you want to ask me anything specic about what steps I took feel welcome. 

All I can say in short form is:
1. I decided quickly to remove the "pedasal" I placed my wife on.
2. No begging or trying to work it out, decisive choice to move on.
3. Focused on me-centric activities and socialized with friends.
this does not mean drinking excessively, partying.
4. Actively excerised and it's a free anti-depressant. This is true and can really help your outlook on life.
5. Filed for divorce within a week of the big meltdown. 
6. Ignored all texts and calls that were not relevant to selling our house.
7. Stay somewhere else and do not return effection. 
8. seek counseling immediately for yourself not to work on how to bring you two together.

It's pretty much what I did and I can say I'm very grateful I went against what my heart said on a lot of it.


----------



## Morrigan1

BeYou.. hi 

I can relate to every one of your words, thoughts, feelings, hopes.. hurt, anger, frustration, confusion.. _all of it_. Apart from a few details, you could be me [only I'm female lol]

As briefly as possible.. my husband I were together for 17yrs. We had a miracle [IVF] baby boy 2yrs ago. We struggled with conceiving for 7yrs and it took a toll on us we evidently didn't realise. Our son was ill when he was born [nothing serious, but it meant 11+ months of screaming, crying, hospital visits and NO sleep] My husband is self employed.. can't afford to turn down work.. his workload increased so he wasn't here as much.. I developed post natal depression.. he struggled with 20+hrs shifts [I know he wasn't seeing someone else because his work phone can only work inside the workshop/factory he works in and I could always get hold of him without fail] and we drifted apart. We never sat down and 'talked' about any of it, we both struggled to keep each others problems away from one another. 

So.... 8th September last year, he snapped. Said he couldn't live this way anymore, he felt unloved, invisible and as I had our son, he felt he was 'surplus to requirements' and he left. Literally right there and then, with a plastic bag containing some socks and pants - and he never came back. He met someone in a pub about 5/6 weeks later.. 5/6 weeks after that, he moved in with her less than 2 streets away from my son and I. They're still together, still at the same address [not rubbing my nose in it, then?!] We spent probably 8 of the last 12 months sleeping together a lot.. having family days out.. arguing here and there.. 'ending the sex' and going back to it repeatedly.. lots of 'I'm sorry' from him.. lots of 'I miss you, I miss our son' [he sees him 4 times a week!] 'I wish things could be different' I don't want to hurt you' and lots of regrets etc yada yada. I put a stop to the sex aout 3/4 months ago because the thing is, he always 'went home' to her. It took me ALL that time to realise he has ZERO respect for me or my son [he's hurting and confusing his _own son's_ mother at the end of the day!?] The very fact he went with someone else, while still married, is bad enough.. but to string me along, give me fasle hope all that time on top? It's only now I'm seeing it and him for the way it all 'really' is. He's also flirting his way through his [many sudden] 'nights out with the lads' too, apparently.. like a 16yr old? Yep. 

^^^^^^^^^^^ Reason I'm sharing all of this, is because it's been amost a year for me now and _nothing_ has changed. EVERY time I even _try _to set 'no contact except only for our son's sake' in place, he purposely tries to confuse me with suddenly txt me some random nonsense joke or music video or asking how 'our son has been today..?' and even so much as coming here to tell me he misses me/us. EVERY time I mention divorce, he completely ignores me [we agreed everything months ago, there is nothing being contested.. there is NO reason why he can't divorce me - and he won't let me do it because he disagrees with my reasons.. pffft] Anyway, I'm starting to waffle. Point is, I'm a mess. I 'get' what you're saying and how you feel and all the things you've done and thought and believed and hoped for and I'm glad to see you're starting to come out the other side  

I've also had a packed forum thread tell me all they've been telling you here and while it's hard to hear and you wish you could deny a lot of it, have people tell you what you 'really want to hear' instead, it is unfortunately true for the most part. I'm only _now_ learning that, myself. I really just wanted to come by and advise you not to be a mug for a second longer, hun. I broke when my husband left me, I mean literally broke in 2. My whole life, my world, my future came crashing down around me in quite spectacular fashion and I never, ever thought I'd stop crying, hurting, grieving, wishing, hoping.. and to an extent, I still haven't - BUT - _I am finally_ starting to come out of the 'fog limbo'. DON'T let it get to a whole year like I have, my friend. It _will_ crush you, stop you from moving forward, it'll keep you 'hanging on' to something that simply is 'not there' anymore, however much you want it to be. 

Just be kind to yourself and remember who YOU are and your own worth and do all you can to protect your son from the hurt and anger and frustrations. Someone said to me once a long time ago: _It is always the one who leaves that loses the most and ends up hurting more.. and by the time they realise those awful things, you'll be Gone. 'Fixed'. And happy elsewhere' _ I'm still struggling, as I said and I'm still weak to him to some extent, sometimes.. do not be a fool like me. All that will happen to you is that pain will last longer, your thoughts will fester and you'll end up no better off for any of it. I wish you well Xx


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## BeYou

Thanks Morrigan.

I'm at a place now where I still miss my W, obviously. Wish things were different, etc.

But I am okay. I have started jogging/small workout every few days (don't do it when I have my son). It makes you feel SOOOO much better it's unreal. After a jog and some pushups/situps, you feel cleansed, confident, and happier.

Had lunch with W yesterday. I was picking up our son right around lunchtime and he really didn't want to leave. So we ended up having lunch together at the house.

Saw her this morning again because it was our son's first day of school so she met us there to see him off. Things are pleasant between us. We can talk and laugh.


Honestly, I have a hard time believing we are not going to get back together. I know right now it is definitely not going to happen, nor could she even ever see it happening if the question was to come up, it would still be a solid "never" answer. She is still going out all the time and seeing her rebound. I'm sure at some point, the wheels will come off...but who knows for sure.

And I'm not saying that from a position of weakness. I am at a point where that would be my preferred ending to this story, but on the other hand, I would do just fine if it never happens. But I'm in no rush whatsoever to jump into another relationship or even start dating, so for now it's just about me and my son. She is going to do what she is going to do right now, and I'm keeping my distance so as to not drive myself insane.

I had my tires inflated a bit the other night when out with a couple friends (neither of whom are too privy to everything going on). One was a female, the other a gay male...so they started talking about some guys and looks. Somehow it got to me, in which they both rated me at least a 9.5/10 - and only being a tattoo or a little bit more "definition (working out) from being a 10. Not that I was worried about my attractiveness at all before, but this certainly emphasized that I wouldn't have a problem attracting anyone else should it come to that.

I love my W. I really do. But what's happened has happened and there is no "going back." Can I see us getting back together? Yes, I honestly can. Is it because she's showing glimpses of that? Nope, not even a little bit. But I just feel that months down the road, when I've had more time to work on myself, and she's had time to get this crap out of her system...that a reconciliation might just be possible. It's obvious that we still care about each other.

We were supposed to have a "chat" that we keep rescheduling. It was supposed to be scheduled now for tonight, but I'm guessing it will get bumped again.

Essentially, I just wanted a few minutes of her time to just get some things off my chest...not to get in a big conversation, but just to tell her where I stand: I don't need you, but I do love you. I respect your strength in recognizing things were not working well in our relationship, and thank you for that. I need time to take care of me right now, so not asking for anything from you at all. I'm not engaging you at all right now, but that doesn't mean I don't care. Know that I did love you even though I didn't make you feel that way.

And that's it. Walk away. I think it's a closure thing for me. I haven't express my heart to her in a strong way. Any talk before has been from a weak spot and was just pleading and pathetic, and looking for crumbs of something from her. Considering her reasons for ending it, I feel she should know how I truly feel - again, not in a pathetic way - but in a true, confident, honest way.

I'm going to go buy some clothes for myself today.


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## BeYou

I also just want to say that she was right about our relationship. It wasn't great at all these last few months. I knew this - I just didn't want to admit it to myself because I was so co-dependent. I was being an ass to her for the last little while. I was letting my frustrations get to me, short temper. Would take cheap shots in fights. Jumping to cheap shots if a fight was even brewing. Starting "checking out" every girl who walked by. Watching porn instead of going to bed with her. Picking fights just because I was frustrated with other things.

Yeah. I was being a piece of crap.

I think this might be why some of you want to look at her with such a jaded view...because I haven't been honest with my stuff. You just see her checking out, being selfish, meeting some guy, etc. I've made myself look pretty innocent through this. I'm not.

Gee, maybe she isn't being all that ridiculous. Maybe I was just being that crappy of a husband. Yes, she played her part too. But I was just as, if not more, guilty as she was.

The difference was, she had the balls to finally say "enough - I won't be treated this way..."

I...didn't. Kudos to her.

THat's why it's ME time now. I've got some things to fix. These behaviours have repeated themselves. It's time to fix them once and for all.


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## Morrigan1

Oh hun  that's not 'letting go' - that's a form of denial and lots of 'hope for the future'. It's pretty much where I am now. And blaming yourself? It's takes 2, my friend.. so ok, take your share of the blame, fair enough.. but she could have talked to you about how she was feeling before it all went gaga, made the effort to try to save your relationship, gve you a chance to change things and for her to admit her own failings. Don't start blaming yourself.. been there, too.. got the tshirt, the book and the mental scars.

I did exactly as you have.. changed lots of things.. gave him his space.. let him carry on in his misfit world.. stopped the heartfelt emails about how I feel and what I wish for. Then I got to the stage where I started no contact except _purely_ re our son. Stopped him coming into our home for more than 2 mins to collect/drop off our littlun.. ignored txts that were not _absolutely necessary_ re son.. asked him to leave me alone, not to contact me and to let me get on with my life because all he was doing before with family days out and going for lunch and txts etc was confusing me.. keeping me 'hanging on a string' in the background while he in fact was getting on with his life moving forward. 

He _still_ had me in limbo and he knew it. I was 'there' and together the above stated, I too told him that I was walking away myself now, but that I still care for him and love him and that I want him to know these things because I want him to understand etc. << Basically no different to the pathetic outpourings like before then  It's the _same thing_. 

We're telling these individuals "I'm still 'here'. I still love you. I still want you. I still need you. *I haven't moved on*,*I'm waiting for you"* It might not make a blind bit of difference, but they need to know that we really _have_ walked away and that we are NOT 'a part of their world' anymore. They don't, not while we're still 'giving' to them, not in any way. It's also very confusing for my son to see us together and to have my husband at our home.. we are not together and so he shouldn't see us as if we are. Very unfair and I've put a stop to that, as I've said. I've asked my husband to divorce me and over the past 3/4 weeks, whenever I happen to be in his company, dropping my son off etc or at my inlaws and he turns up, I am civil but I don't look him in the eye.. no 'chit chat' whatsoever [he's suddenly started asking 'What have you been up to, then?' and the like and my replies are akways polite and curt - "Busy.. got a lot on" or similar, but that's it. I cut the convo there and then and leave as quickly and politely as I can. It rips me in 2 when I walk away.. it's the LAST thing I _want _to do, but I know it's what needs to happen, for my own sanity.. for my son's sake and for my health and well being.

Honestly, hun.. what you're doing is not 'letting go'.. it's l'iving on hope' that one day, maybe, hopefully, she'll come back. Maybe she will.. but you need to shock the $hit out of her and show her you really have gone and she no longer has you to rely on, to soothe her, to massage her ego, to be a 'back up', you're not her 'friend'.. you're someone she 'used to know' and she gave you up. Show her what she gave up, hun.. but don't go out of your way.. look good, be civil and emotionless when you see her, refuse lunch and invites as politely as possible.. do NOT explain yourself or the reasons. Make her wonder what's going on in your head from now on.. not put yourself on a plate. I'm doing all these things just recently. Half of me is hoping that it wakes him up and makes him realise he really HAS LOST ME now, but at the same time I am actually moving on with my life and allowing myself to open up to things I'd closed myself off to.

It might work,k it might not.. either way, I am moving forward, properly. If he realises he doesn't want to lose me/us completely, he'll fight for me.. if he doesn't, he's not the person who is going to love and cherish and protect and respect me.. so the question then will be 'Why did I want you to come back at all?'


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## happyman64

BeYou

Morrigan is right.

You have not let go yet.

Nothing wrong with being a good man and a good Dad.

But it s time to fix yourself so you do not bring the baggage into your next relationship.

None of us are perfect. Sure you are to blame for the breakdown of the marriage. But not all of it.

Time to let go buddy. Now is the time to heal and figure out what your step in life will be.

HM64


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## jdlash

DON'T tell her she made the right decision becuase your relationship was broke. I DID THAT and it doesn't help. It confirmed her decision is all. DON"T tell her you love her, but no longer need her to be happy. The worse thing you can do is tell her your working on yourself. Let her see it. 


DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO GIVE HER THE PLAY BY PLAY ACTION. 

Speak very little and work on yourself. Show her kindness and don't show anger to her when she does crap you don't like. 


STOP telling her what you have learned, or in all reality you have learned nothing at all.


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## BeYou

Thank you guys again for your advice. I will follow what makes sense, and do what feels right for the other parts. The fact is, 90% of these situations are similar, but none of them are exact.

I am not giving her anything right now to "take away". So closing my eyes and ignoring her will not accomplish anything. She doesn't text about unimportant things anymore, it's kid stuff. Lunch yesterday was kid stuff. School this morning was kid stuff.

Morrigan I appreciate your willingness to help, but I don't need the "oh hun, you're so lost" stuff anymore. I'm passed that.

You guys can say I haven't let go, and you're right in a way - I'm not going to make a decision to say I will NEVER contemplate a reconciliation should it become an option. I don't have to do that to move on.

I AM fixing myself. I am working out, going out with friends, being a great dad, spending time alone. I am not crippled like you guys are acting/assuming I am.

I'll tell you something...

The last time we split was for 4 months (2 months still seeing each other, 2 completely done). Through that time, I accepted the fact that we were done. I went to the bank to take over the house. I asked her about a separation agreement (needed one for the house). However, I never wrote off a possible reconciliation. I came to terms with the fact that it may never happen, but also realized that it may.

Let me tell you another little secret, during that time, I did see someone else too. It was great. She made me feel wanted, appreciated, gave me butterflies, etc. But in the end, the grass wasn't greener.

And another thing, because my W was still hanging around, I didn't have to face the facts. It wasn't until my W said "enough is enough" and stopped our "hanging out" and said she couldn't do it anymore, and said she was done...that I finally went "holy crap - what have I lost????" For the first two months of our separation, I was distracted by going out nonstop, having girls flirting with me, having my W still available, etc. So it never felt real. It got real when she put an end to it all.

Now I know you're all looking and saying "SEE...she did it to you and it worked! Now do it to her!"

The difference was, I was still very much not wanting to let her go completely. I was still enjoying our time together, but was cake eating for sure. In this case, we aren't doing those same things. We aren't hanging out, talking, etc. It's nothing but kid talk now. She's sure of her decision. I wasn't completely.

Anyway, we had a counseling appointment on January 9 as a "last ditch effort" that she agreed to come to, but openly said she wasn't interested in getting back, was just going because I asked her to. And we left that appointment the same way we went in. She was done, and that was the last effort.

Fast forward 3 weeks and we were getting back together. Because I was there for her. We had a chance to spend a day together and reconnect. Not because I decided to ignore her and pretend she didn't exist. We dove back in and didn't do it the right way, hence why we ended up back here.

And I agree, I wish she would have tried to fix this instead of running away. And she did. She sent me emails a few months ago saying she was scared things were going back to the way they were. That frustrated me. I was thinking "why the hell can she not just be happy???" Cool right? No.

At one point, during a disagreement, she said "we need to go see a counsellor" and what was my response? "I'll fricken leave before I see a counsellor about this issue." I don't recall what the issue was at that time. Doesn't matter.

She reached out a couple times - she was met with a typical man response.

I wish she would have reached out more...would my response have been any different? Probably not...until our relationship was threatened again. For all the changes I made, I didn't keep the one that would identify trouble and the ability to look past the words and listen.

I'm a big boy, I will continue to improve myself, and take care of my son. I am detaching and living my life, and not worrying about hers so much. It is getting easier every day. But I can do all of that without giving the situation the middle finger.

And at some point, I may meet someone...and I won't stop that from happening because of some hope, I'm just not pursuing it. And if I'm choosing to just be myself right now, and not date and get involved with people, then there is no problem with me having a "gut feel" that things might work out some day. As mentioned before, they very well may not...and I will be okay if that happens.


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## BeYou

My whole last post could have been summed up as...

I don't have to say "never," to move on. I can move on and keep ALL my options open.


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## BeYou

jdlash said:


> DON'T tell her she made the right decision becuase your relationship was broke. I DID THAT and it doesn't help. It confirmed her decision is all. DON"T tell her you love her, but no longer need her to be happy. The worse thing you can do is tell her your working on yourself. Let her see it.
> 
> 
> DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO GIVE HER THE PLAY BY PLAY ACTION.
> 
> Speak very little and work on yourself. Show her kindness and don't show anger to her when she does crap you don't like.
> 
> 
> STOP telling her what you have learned, or in all reality you have learned nothing at all.


I am not planning on giving her play by play of what I am learning or doing for myself. She will see that for herself.

This is just part of what my Step-SIL suggested I do, along with my counsellor, along with other resources, along with just what I want to get off my chest.

It's not going to be fawning and begging. It's going to just be that I have acknowledged our situation and what got us here. Not really an apology, just an acknowledgment with no expectation of an action or response. Just mic drop and out. 

What will it hurt? It's not going to bring her back or push her away. She's already away.


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## This is me

Where you are at is where I was at back in December. It did not look good, but there was some light ahead, with or without her. 

You sound to be on the right path to me. 

I wish you all the best!


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## BeYou

This is me said:


> Where you are at is where I was at back in December. It did not look good, but there was some light ahead, with or without her.
> 
> You sound to be on the right path to me.
> 
> I wish you all the best!


Thank you so much TIM.

Maybe it's the way I'm wording things as I type, but it sounds like people are thinking I'm still a fawning mess who's kneeling at my W's feet or something.

In reality, yes I still miss her of course. But I'm doing things for me. Just because I have a "gut feel" that things will work out down the road doesn't mean I am not letting go and am in a bad spot. I know that time is not now, and I'm okay with that. And I also know that time may never be, and I'm coming to terms with that too.

Everyone preaches patience...but then they want you to rush on with your life and end everything immediately. I'm learning and exercising patience.

Thank you for understanding.


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## jdlash

I'm not rushing on with my life and I really think we are more on the same page then you think. All I was getting at is use actions more then words. I have been reading the love dare and I would reccomend it to anyone that would like to learn more about a real marriage and how it should work. 

You are on the right path as far as I'm concerned. Continue to be kind to her, to love her even if she may not deserve it right now, to be patient, etc... Force yourself to not show her your frustrations even when you are. These are the things that will show her how strong you are and that you are confident and take your marriage seriously.


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## jdlash

Then there's the part about apolagizing. Apolagizing over and over for the same thing isn't good, but if you see something you really feel you did wrong, acknowledge it and tell her how you think it probably made her feel and that you are sorry for it.


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## jdlash

Keep up the good work and stay positive!


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## BeYou

jdlash said:


> Keep up the good work and stay positive!


Thank you! I am and will.


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## BeYou

So tonight she came over. We had a fire in the backyard and ended up chatting for about 3 hours (was originally supposed to be a 15 min chat).

We just chatted about every day stuff, was going quite well. But a few times she tried to direct the conversation towards "us talk". At one point I even said "I didn't ask you over here to talk about the relationship, so we don't have to talk about this.". I mentioned that I wanted to just chat real quick about what was on my mind and heart, but I planned to leave that until the end of the night.

At one point she asked about my counseling appointment last Thursday and was shocked that I still went. I think she expected that when she didn't go, that I would cancel. But she realized that I'm doing this for me.

She then asked at one point, "what have you been thinking?". I turned it around on ber and asked the same...she said not much because of all the resentment she has built up. I said i dont blame her for that at all and she has a right to feel it. Isaid, well, I was going to wait until later, but you want to know what I've been thinking? Here goes...

In no specific order or wording I said...

-I respect you for acknowledging the issues in our relationship. I knew it wasn't good too, but was too scared to acknowldge it. It took balls for you to stand up and do something about it.

-I made you feel unloved, and that's on me. I didn't do a good job of making you KNOW that you were loved.

-I have a list written down a page long of things I didnt do right.

-I don't resent you at all for this decision. I understand that it took a lot for you to get to this point, and I don't blame you for anything.

This put her in tears. She said she never thought she'd ever hear me say that (acknowledge my shortcomings, and say I don't resent her). I told her this is about me now, that I have work to do. She said she is soooo happy for me and that this will no doubt help me be happy in my life. She acknowledged that I am a different person now and she's so happy to see that.

Anyway, we went back to just chatting for another our or two. When we stood up to call it a night, I gave her a hug which she seemed to jump right into. She held on for a while. I made sure I ended it first. We went inside and she got her stuff together. I walked her out to her car, and SHE initiated another hug and said she is so happy for me, and to keep it up...don't quit. Again, I made sure to end the hug first and walk away wishing her a good night.

Hopefully that describes the meat of the evening. I feel it went very well. She said a lot of positive things and although was still talking about our futures as separate, she softened her heart a lot and seemed genuinely happy about my situation.

Again, this is me. I'm transitioning back to ME. Tonight, she got a glimpse of that.

Again, maybe nothing ever happens, but I feel good about just opening to her and being honest. I was a ****ty dude. I am well on my way to being a better dude.


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## BeYou

She also stated she knows she is not perfect either and that she made mistakes too.

Also stated that her and the other dude had a but of a falling out. Geez that didn't take long. Apparently she was getting too much attention and he was getting jealous and told her he didn't think he could handle that. Irony.

She mentioned to me before my "chat" that she knows she's been hard on me since we split, but it's not because she hates me...it's because she's been feeling resentment towards me because of how I've changed...but wouldn't change before when we were together.

Also during my "spilling of thoughts" I told her I have realized I don't NEED her to live. I will be okay and I know that. I told her in general terms, that people can't rely on others to be their only source of happiness.


At no point during any of the night did I say I wanted her back, wanted to work on things, hoped we'd get back together, none of that. I simply answered some of her questions, and said my piece without getting sappy or anything. Just stayed cool, and talked.

It's clear she has a LOT of resentment that she is still dealing with. But I think last night was a positive step. The rest will take time.


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## BeYou

So guess who invited who out for lunch today?


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> So guess who invited who out for lunch today?


I'm hoping you said no.


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## BeYou

Conrad said:


> I'm hoping you said no.


I didn't. She asked what I was doing for lunch (I'm at work, she happened to be at the mall which my building is connected to) and I said not sure, trying to decide. She said she was at the mall. I said "are you asking me to lunch?" She said "yeah." So we went for lunch.


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> I didn't. She asked what I was doing for lunch (I'm at work, she happened to be at the mall which my building is connected to) and I said not sure, trying to decide. She said she was at the mall. I said "are you asking me to lunch?" She said "yeah." So we went for lunch.


You'll be right there to accept the next crumb of love she throws your way.


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## MSC71

Why would she want to come back to you? she can get whatever she wants from you now. She calls and you come running. Quit talking to her. 15 minute talk that turns into 3 hours. Take control of YOU.


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## happyman64

Oh Be You will you ever learn?

You are your own wort enemy.

Do not give up on yourself.......

Crumbs, crumbs, crumbs, all the mice ever get are the crumbs.....

It sucks being a mouse.


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## Morrigan1

BeYou.. You're in denial, hun. _Please_ believe me - I've been there for months and months. I closed the door once and for all [least, that's what I'm showing my husband] about 2/3 weeks ago - when I say closed the door, I mean I give him NOTHING. No reponse to ANY thing he has to say apart from civility purely for our son's sake and the 'chat' is blindingly quick now. I told him straight that 'I do not want him back' for the first time. I said nothing of how I am to blame for ANY part of what happened [even though I feel it, I'm not letting him know that anymore.. it only serves to justify his actions and make him think he was right to leave in the first place] and just to boot, I told him 'there is no way back. Ipso facto. I said that _if there were a chance_, it would come only alongside _his_ efforts and should he beg, because anything short of that will see me keep walking, I could well reconsider - but I won't be while he's not giving anything to me to reconsider in the first place. I wasn't 'nasty' about it, I was calm, but not refelctive. I was to the point, but not 'hard'. It was my last ditch attempt at hoping it would make him realise I am walking - this time, for good. 

Yesterday, out of nowhere, he begged me to go out for the day with him and my son [my husband 'begs' for no man, trust me] but I stayed firm. It almost broke me, but I held fast and said 'we've had this conversation.. the answer is still no'. He 'told' me I had 30 mins to get ready or he would dress me himself and put me in the car [he's not a violent man etc, he meant he would actually remove my nightwear and physically put clothes on me.. he made 'light of it'.. only I remained steadfast, didn't show him any humour and did not cave - not easy, all I wanted to do was say YES! and go there and then with them, sod changing my clothes even] He returned an hour later, seemed very down and out and [stupidly!] I asked what was wrong. He wouldn't tell me, but then the clever man that he is 'got me'.. pushed the right button and asked quietly and politely if I would 'please go.. ***** should see his parents together sometimes, it's good for him to see this unity.... and other emotional 'stuff'. I ended up going.

Long story short.. had a wonderful day together and our son seemed relaxed and happy and shared his attention with us [he only ever calls for 'dad' since my husband left] I was SO glad I went, but as we got back in the car to start our way home, there it was.. that feeling of 'not real' ' being used' 'infilling' etc. I felt sick. I didn't want to be there anymore, because we were going home only 'we' weren't - it was only my son and I who were 'going home'. My husband wasn't coming back with us.

Anyway, I said nothing of how I felt and then a very odd thing happened. I suddenly had this outpouring from him!? He told me 'things are complicated.. how can I just come back to you?.. you don't understand how complicated it all is with 'her'.. I miss you and ***** more than anything on this earth.. I hate waking up without you both..' and much more. It took every single ounce of strength and will to reply: I haven't asked you to come back. I told you last time really was the _last time _of asking. What's done is done. You felt you had no choice but to leave, to get away from the unhappiness you felt, ok I understand to an extent.. but you made a concious choice to go with someone else and to _not_ come back to us. You're bed, you made it.. sorry, but this lady has left the building'. 

Silence fell for the rest of the journey, we got back to my house, I said goodbye.. he didn't look at me. He sat there staring into space with tears in his eyes, I closed the car door and my son and I walked away. I held out until my son went to sleep and then I _absolutely_ fell apart at the seams. 

I'm not denying things to myself anymore. This is my last ditch attempt and it's come as a result of all the advice I've been given by so many people over all the months [funnily enough ALL basically telling me the same thing but only very, very recently 'sinking in'] I am preparing myself for the worst. I AM moving forward in other respects of my life and that can only help me. I am not holding my breath. I have no idea if this will work, if he will 'wake up' or not.... but what I do know is that to give him ANY emotional response _whatsoever_ or 'more time' than planned or ask him of his wellbeing or even show concern over anything in his life would feed him enough to keep on walking away, believing I'm still 'there' for him, waiting' [I should never have gone yesterday.. it won't happen again] 

I can 'say' things to him until I'm blue in the face.. it's 'action' that's needed now. Zero emotion and what I say I stick to, no matter what or how hard or wondering are my actions/inaction pushing him even further away etc. I must now stick to it all without fail [15 min convo? - I'll give him 10 and I'll be walking] 

Everything else has failed and I've lived in a limbo haze for so long now, I really do feel strong enough - as long as I stick to things I promise myself - to once and for all let go if I have to. You can't see outside of yourself, BeYou, and I totally understand the frustrations you have with the advice you're being given.. you feel as though many here aren't 'listening' to you properly or taking your words out of context or you're wondering if it's because of how you've written/worded a post - it isn't. You don't want to let go and hey, that's entirely up to you.. but you're asking for advice while you're in pain and you're wishing things were different.. you don't want to lose your wife and you're not ready to walk away and never look back. If you've tried everything else and it's failed, you only have one choice left.

It's not easy to see your Self from an outside perspective, but after enough time has passed, it will happen naturally and it'll all 'click' in your head and you'll be able to recognise it all.. whether you're back with your wife, or not.


----------



## Morrigan1

*ps* Just to add.. re read your last few posts and perhaps you really do believe that you are moving on/letting go [though not 'completely'] but honestly, hun.. answering the questions, admitting your part in the blame, telling her you don't resent her.. and all the rest?? Put it this way instead then, as of today - she knows exactly how you feel about her, she knows you're still very much hung up on her/in love, she knows you know you had a part to play in the split. She knows _everything_ she needs to from you now [and sorry to say, just like my position, she knows you're 'there' - _not_ a positive for _you_, hun] From now on, you become a mystery to the woman. Don't 'give' another inch. You're putting youself down in all this and you know when all is said and done, as a good friend said to me a long time ago - 'take me or leave me, this is ME and whoever out there may love me, they will love me for that person.. not someone else's ideal'. Very wise words! I don't want my husband to change and he doesn't want me to - our circumstances needed to change and we needed to talk a LOT more than we did. If either of us changed to any grand extent, who exactly would either of us be missing/loving/even leaving??


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## This is me

I remember when my Wife walked for 4 months. Many people advised that I quit her and move on, but I saw the signs she was uncertain she had done the right thing. I knew the truth, that we were good companions and had 20 years of very good memories, with about .05% bad ones that she had learned to focus on, causing resentment.

Good thing I didn't listen to the unprofessionals. The book "Divorce Remedy" became my Bible. A true professional who spelled out what she was going through and how I should deal with it.

We just celebrated another anniversary, the best yet and more to come.

Stay the course!


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## jdlash

When we only focus on the other person, we tend to want to give up easier. If we can remain strong enough, we shouldn't give up until we have changed ourself to a point that we don't need anymore work on ourselves. With that said, no one is perfect, so that leaves continuing to honor your marriage until you have no more strength left in you. 

I'm sure your not doing things perfect BeYou, but I like your positive attitude. My personal opinion is that you need to do anything you can to better yourself. Read, ask questions and read more. The goal is to get your marriage back. I think we forget sometimes that your going to have to develop your friendship with your wife first. The only way to get past the negative feelings is time and spending time together.


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## BeYou

Thanks ThisisMe.

See this is the trouble I have. A few people saying run away and ignore her, and then some people saying don't. I've read the Divorce Busting book (basically an updated version of Divorce Remedy). I read it last time we split. Last time, had I just bailed and what not, we wouldn't have gotten back together. The only reason we did is because I was there for her. She realized again that I loved her because I was there when she needed someone. Plus, in her presence, she was able to see the changes.

Morrigan I'm glad that your strategy has seemingly worked for your husband...at least for now. And I do think that strategy CAN and has worked for people who aren't certain they want to go for sure.

In my case, my W has her mind made up. So avoiding her only makes that decision easier and confirms it. When does she reach out to me and start inviting me to things? Right after I initiate the first contact. When she gets a little glimpse of me, she seems to seek a little more. Last time, had I not suggested hanging out together again, we wouldn't have reconnected. Hanging out together again is what re-ignited the feelings for each other.

So I understand what Conrad, HM64 and Morrigan are saying. And I don't deny that doing what you're suggesting would help a person move on faster...it would.

I also don't deny that if yesterday, she asked me to lunch, and I said "no thanks" that she likely would have been quite surprised and maybe confused. It doesn't mean she would regret anything or it would make her want more.

Earlier in this thread, the advice was to "accept invitations, not demands." And also to "clarify what she is asking and make her say yes or no when she invites." So yesterday, she invited, and I made her say yes. And I still get jumped on here.

I know the rule is basically that people want what they can't have, but there are many exceptions. I'm not convinced my W is the rule, but rather an exception.

"Show them you've changed through actions"...and how are you supposed to do that if you ignore them? What is that showing them exactly?

Anyway, again, I'm not seeking her out. In the last couple weeks, this "chat" is the only thing I have initiated and that goes for texts and calls too. I'm going to continue to not initiate things, and if the invites become frequent (which I don't think they will), I will pick and choose.

"Show her what she is missing."

Yes, but what she thinks she is missing right now is a cold husband, who didn't show love, who didn't listen, who hurt her heart, etc. Why the hell would she miss that???

I've got to show her what she is missing NOW. And that is to use these small opportunities to show her who I am...and then let her miss that. However, these opportunities are few and far between so it's tough to turn them down when they come by.

I don't see anything wrong with her and I having a great conversation together and connecting on that level. The time earlier that that happened was the first time she felt regret. This last time she dropped her guard a little bit, and initiated the first physical contact in 5 weeks. It's these moments together that are softening her and opening her up a little. Not the moments when we don't talk for a week.

So I'm exercising both ends of the advice. Don't contact or talk about "us", but at the same time, make the most of the time we do spend together if initiated by her.

When I went to pick our son up from her place after work yesterday, she had supper going and asked me at one point if I'd like to stay for supper. I said no that's fine, but thank you. Her response was "are you sure? It's okay." I said yeah, thanks though. (it was tacos even...do you have any idea how hard it is for me to turn down tacos??????????????  )

Our son REALLY wanted tacos for supper and begged to stay for supper. So I did eventually cave and told him to have a quick taco then and we left shortly after.


It's not that I disrespect your advice Conrad, HM64, Morrigan...I do appreciate everything you guys have contributed and I do think your advice works in many situations...and hell it may even work in mine. But I'm just trying to play things with considerations for my specific situation as opposed to the wide brush approach of treating every situation the same.

I don't feel as though I an in a state where I can't control myself. Everything I am doing is thought about and calculated. I'm not just doing everything emotionally. But I'm just doing things with consideration to the situation as opposed to just ignoring everything and reacting to everything with no care.


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## Morrigan1

*This is me*.. hi  What other than.. give her space, tell her and show her how you feel and reassure her of those things, have patience and understanding of her, for her and her issues and her needs.. did you do? Because I did all of those things, while defending him to many others, blaming myself and trying to change myself. Nothing worked. I'm really curious what you did to succeed? 

Then again, sometimes people simply just fall out of love - not every relationship can be 'fixed'.


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## BeYou

jdlash said:


> When we only focus on the other person, we tend to want to give up easier. If we can remain strong enough, we shouldn't give up until we have changed ourself to a point that we don't need anymore work on ourselves. With that said, no one is perfect, so that leaves continuing to honor your marriage until you have no more strength left in you.
> 
> I'm sure your not doing things perfect BeYou, but I like your positive attitude. My personal opinion is that you need to do anything you can to better yourself. Read, ask questions and read more. The goal is to get your marriage back. I think we forget sometimes that your going to have to develop your friendship with your wife first. The only way to get past the negative feelings is time and spending time together.


EXACTLY!!!

And I am doing things to better myself. Going to a counselor, working out, hanging with friends, etc. I am not blindly pursuing...I am taking care of me but just not giving up on us.

And YES! Developing friendship with W first is the stage I am at. Being my own person, but being friends with my W which is showing us each that we are capable of talking, having interest in each others days, having fun together, etc.

And YES again...if I were to just move on, she would carry the resentment for ever...much like her mother has done with her father (for 25 years) because the last memories they have together are the really crappy ones they ended the relationship with. The more she sees ME, the more she develops good memories and feelings to slowly chip away at the feelings of anger and resentment.

The last time we split, she told me at one time that she was "so jealous of who I had become." That she wanted that guy all along, where was he. But that it was too late.

Who I was at that time when she said those things, was a confident me, who was hanging out with friends and had his self esteem back. I'm not sure I'm quite back there yet, but I'm getting close. And she's starting to see it again a little bit.

So it's my duty to "detach" so I can get myself in order...but doesn't mean I have to give up hope of someday getting back together regardless of what the situation is right now.

****y me: When i'm at my best...when I'm ME...I'm a hell of a catch. Good looking, smart, honest, funny, confident, romantic, etc. Yeah I'm tooting my own horn.

I'm not ready to get back together because I haven't completely gotten myself back to me yet...at least not consistently. I show flashes here and there.


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## Morrigan1

BeYou.. I know how confusing all the different advice is [I've had to leave a 100 page thread on another forum because it did my nut :scratchhead:] I guess what it boils sown to is you're relfecting _and_ projecting. You're doing all the things you 'think' she wants/needs you to do, but you don't really know what those things are for her - maybe she doesn't know herself, which is why she's done what she has? [not unlike my husband] No, you're not 'playing into her hands' anymore BUT you are 'giving', hun. Don't. You've let her know now _exactly_ where you stand, what you want, miss and need and that you love her. I want my husband to 'see me', too, but it seems the less I give him [time, emotion, feelings etc] the more he's thinking about it.. wondering.. maybe even _genuinely_ missing it/me like he says? You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone - and 'gone' means _gone_. It is just another strategy, you're right.. many are going on about it here because it seems to be the only one you haven't tried. 

We're all different as is every relationship.. you have to do whatever you feel is 'right', but you're asking for advice on how to cope/get your wife back while arguing the point with that advice you know? Take a step back and out yourself in her shoes: so she 'gives' you her time, feelings, reassurance, understanding, she accepts a lot of the blame for your splitting.. her whole 'persona' is screaming 'I'm not going anywhere, I'm right here waiting' - even though you're sleeping [was] with another woman. 1. Doormat? [I should know] and 2. Why do you 'need' to do _anything except_ lavish the attention, keep her on the backburner while you're out having fun, while all the while feeling 'safe' that she isn't going anywhere without you.. almost feeling she's never really going to walk away at all..?


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## BeYou

Morrigan,

You're right, and my plan was to have this quick chat, let her know how I felt, let her know that I did truly love her even though she didn't feel that way, and then let it be. The plan was to literally say my piece, end the night, and then go dark basically.

I didn't expect to get a text 12 hours later wanting to hang out. Didn't expect that at all.


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## Morrigan1

BeYou.. [goes without saying!] that it's up to you, hun. I've been faced with the same situation and I've replied/gone/met up etc.. nothing changed and all it did was keep my false hope alive longer, it just made me and all of it worse in the end. BUT.. you are not me and my husband is not your wife. Try to see it though as you're 'jumping' when she asks [it's more a subconcious demand on her part in fact and she 'knows' you'll go/be 'there'] It was a positive that she txt and wanted to meet up.. but for you to have said 'I'm busy I'm afraid, another time would be great though' - whammo.. 'she' in not your main focus anymore [things as such might just make her sit up and think '****, he's not chasing me anymore.. am I really losing him?' Plus, you deserve more respect Xx


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## BeYou

Morrigan1 said:


> BeYou.. [goes without saying!] that it's up to you, hun. I've been faced with the same situation and I've replied/gone/met up etc.. nothing changed and all it did was keep my false hope alive longer, it just made me and all of it worse in the end. BUT.. you are not me and my husband is not your wife. Try to see it though as you're 'jumping' when she asks [it's more a subconcious demand on her part in fact and she 'knows' you'll go/be 'there'] It was a positive that she txt and wanted to meet up.. but for you to have said 'I'm busy I'm afraid, another time would be great though' - whammo.. 'she' in not your main focus anymore [things as such might just make her sit up and think '****, he's not chasing me anymore.. am I really losing him?' Plus, you deserve more respect Xx


Thank you for that. And yes, I have planned to deploy that "busy, next time" but have been afraid to do it for fear there won't be a next time.

We shall see.


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## Morrigan1

Yep, I know that fear very well, unfortunately. I don't even know you.. I just _really_ feel for you and I wouldn't want anyone to go through the year [ it'll be a year tomorrow, wonderful  ] that I just have. Mixed signals, confusion, hopes raised, dashed, hurt, frustration.. it's as bad as him having left in the first place. But well, for me now.. after all this time and all I've tried.. I have to take that risk now. I've tried everything else and now I've naturally reached a point where it's make or break, for once and for all, because this is like self torture. The sad irony is, as I've watched happen to many friends, is that when nature does take over and you genuinely do 'stop' feeling [or at least 'get past it'] and move on, _that_ is when the other half realises things and it's too late [for *you* and/or they've sorted out their own issues] to go back. 

Keep strong, hun.. you might see some of the things you end up doing/saying as going against your inner most feelings and desires, but don't be afraid.. you have nothing to lose. She's gone [hard to hear, but the truth] If she wants to come back, she will. Hope she does  Xx


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## This is me

Morrigan1 said:


> *This is me*.. hi  What other than.. give her space, tell her and show her how you feel and reassure her of those things, have patience and understanding of her, for her and her issues and her needs.. did you do? Because I did all of those things, while defending him to many others, blaming myself and trying to change myself. Nothing worked. I'm really curious what you did to succeed?
> 
> Then again, sometimes people simply just fall out of love - not every relationship can be 'fixed'.


I think it is very true not all are the same, but what happened was 3 months of giving her space after she left. She hung in with MC which was a positive sign she was uncertain. All though she never contributed much during the sessions, other than blame, I contribute this all to the fog of an MLC.

We talked every few days and did lunches on the weekend, but that was about it at the low point, until we did dinners and movies.

Finally having spent months alone at home, I decided limboland was over for me. I explained we needed to go one way or another. Her move home and work on it, or we divide the assets and move on. She initially was going to meet me to divide the assets, but surprised me with she feared she would love me for ever. I know not the best way to say it, but I knew what it meant.

I guess I pushed it at that point, but the whole time I left the door open, 180 as best I could, and hoped she would wake from the fog. The jolt woke her.

I think it is all feel for what is right for us at the time. I wish you well!


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## BeYou

Yesterday was the first real day of NC. Neither of us contacted the other.

But she did call me this morning to tell me a cute story about our son when she dropped him off at school this AM.

I have my second appointment with the counsellor later today. Going to be opening up the issues about me that I am embarrassed about and start working on those.


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Thanks ThisisMe.
> 
> See this is the trouble I have. A few people saying run away and ignore her, and then some people saying don't. I've read the Divorce Busting book (basically an updated version of Divorce Remedy). I read it last time we split. Last time, had I just bailed and what not, we wouldn't have gotten back together. The only reason we did is because I was there for her. She realized again that I loved her because I was there when she needed someone. Plus, in her presence, she was able to see the changes.
> 
> Morrigan I'm glad that your strategy has seemingly worked for your husband...at least for now. And I do think that strategy CAN and has worked for people who aren't certain they want to go for sure.
> 
> In my case, my W has her mind made up. So avoiding her only makes that decision easier and confirms it. When does she reach out to me and start inviting me to things? Right after I initiate the first contact. When she gets a little glimpse of me, she seems to seek a little more. Last time, had I not suggested hanging out together again, we wouldn't have reconnected. Hanging out together again is what re-ignited the feelings for each other.
> 
> So I understand what Conrad, HM64 and Morrigan are saying. And I don't deny that doing what you're suggesting would help a person move on faster...it would.
> 
> I also don't deny that if yesterday, she asked me to lunch, and I said "no thanks" that she likely would have been quite surprised and maybe confused. It doesn't mean she would regret anything or it would make her want more.
> 
> Earlier in this thread, the advice was to "accept invitations, not demands." And also to "clarify what she is asking and make her say yes or no when she invites." So yesterday, she invited, and I made her say yes. And I still get jumped on here.
> 
> I know the rule is basically that people want what they can't have, but there are many exceptions. I'm not convinced my W is the rule, but rather an exception.
> 
> "Show them you've changed through actions"...and how are you supposed to do that if you ignore them? What is that showing them exactly?
> 
> Anyway, again, I'm not seeking her out. In the last couple weeks, this "chat" is the only thing I have initiated and that goes for texts and calls too. I'm going to continue to not initiate things, and if the invites become frequent (which I don't think they will), I will pick and choose.
> 
> "Show her what she is missing."
> 
> Yes, but what she thinks she is missing right now is a cold husband, who didn't show love, who didn't listen, who hurt her heart, etc. Why the hell would she miss that???
> 
> I've got to show her what she is missing NOW. And that is to use these small opportunities to show her who I am...and then let her miss that. However, these opportunities are few and far between so it's tough to turn them down when they come by.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with her and I having a great conversation together and connecting on that level. The time earlier that that happened was the first time she felt regret. This last time she dropped her guard a little bit, and initiated the first physical contact in 5 weeks. It's these moments together that are softening her and opening her up a little. Not the moments when we don't talk for a week.
> 
> So I'm exercising both ends of the advice. Don't contact or talk about "us", but at the same time, make the most of the time we do spend together if initiated by her.
> 
> When I went to pick our son up from her place after work yesterday, she had supper going and asked me at one point if I'd like to stay for supper. I said no that's fine, but thank you. Her response was "are you sure? It's okay." I said yeah, thanks though. (it was tacos even...do you have any idea how hard it is for me to turn down tacos??????????????  )
> 
> Our son REALLY wanted tacos for supper and begged to stay for supper. So I did eventually cave and told him to have a quick taco then and we left shortly after.
> 
> 
> It's not that I disrespect your advice Conrad, HM64, Morrigan...I do appreciate everything you guys have contributed and I do think your advice works in many situations...and hell it may even work in mine. But I'm just trying to play things with considerations for my specific situation as opposed to the wide brush approach of treating every situation the same.
> 
> I don't feel as though I an in a state where I can't control myself. Everything I am doing is thought about and calculated. I'm not just doing everything emotionally. But I'm just doing things with consideration to the situation as opposed to just ignoring everything and reacting to everything with no care.


BeYou

You still do not know us very well. 

Even I would have stayed for tacos. The difference is I would laughed, joked and looked like the happiest mand and Dad alive.

I would not discussed the marriage at all. Be cause what you not right now is her Husband.

So you still do not get it but I know you will. You are on the right path.

Keep working on you. The reason I am the HappyMan is because I figured out that I am the only person that can make me happy. All I need is to respect myself. I strive every day to be the best man, Husband, Father and Coworker that I can be.

Everyone that meets me and gets to know me always asks me why I am smiling all the time. I never answer them. It is my secret. But they all get the benefits.

Is my life perfect. No.
Is my marriage perfect. No.
Am I a millionaire. Hell no.

But inside myself I am happy. And my life gets better every day because it is what I strive for.

So keep working at it. Take the advice that works for your situation.

Does your wife need to grow up. Hell Yeah!
Do you need to grow up. Hell Yeah!

But you can still be the best man and Dad right now. You can find your happiness inside yourself no matter what happens.

And who knows, your wife might just notice the difference in you, see that it will be a lasting trait of yours and want a piece of it. Who knows, crazier things in life can happen.....

HM64


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## BeYou

Thanks HM64.

See this is the part where I think there is a disconnect in my storytelling. I am doing exactly as you say. With the exception of the planned "chat", I never talk about the R. And even that was just said in a cool and calm manner without talking about getting back together or anything. I never talk about us. I just be happy, joke around, talk and listen with her.

My post was more about Conrad saying he hoped to hell I said NO to lunch. Well no I didn't...but lunch was good. I was happy, no R talk, no nothing. I'm treating these little instances like a date with a new girl...be happy, smile, joke, chat...no serious stuff.

Meeting with the C went okay today. Not sure she can help me too much, but it's nice to just chat. She says I seem to have a pretty good handle on the dynamics of a healthy relationship, what went wrong in ours, what to do and not to do, etc. She said it's obvious I have reflected and identified things I need to work on and said I sound like I am in a pretty good place all things considered.

Booked again, but it's not for almost a month because she's on holidays.

Anyway, just to confirm HM64...I am not moping and fawning and talking R stuff when her and I get together. I'm doing exactly as you say...happy, confident, light chatter.


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## happyman64

Good Be You.

Just work on you and be a good Dad.

That is all you have control over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

So I was out east for the last 4 days for work. Didn't initiate contact at all while away, but she did text me every night to update me on some things she was registering our son for. She got him registered for 3 sports/activities for the winter plus attended the meet the teacher BBQ at his school. So I was very thankful for her getting all that done. Was a busy 4 days for her.

When my flight landed last night, I was surprised to see she was there with my son to meet me! I was super excited to see my little man running up to me. I thought that was pretty damn awesome of her.

He ended up coming with me last night to stay the night. I had to swing by her place this morning to grab his school stuff, and took him to school. And then her and I actually went out for breakfast and hung out together until about 2pm this afternoon. We had fun. Was nice to both have the day off and nowhere to be.

Anyway, hasn't checked in for a while so just thought I'd give an update.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou

Glad to hear from you. Sounds like your communication has been good between the two of you.

Keep working on you.....

HM64


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## BeYou

Also wanted to mention, I'm thinking she might be MLCing. It crossed my mind before, but thought maybe I was just looking for a reason for all of this.

But today at breakfast she mentioned how afraid she is of getting old. She turns 30 next spring. She mentioned she wants to go to vegas again one last time and just go nuts because she is afraid to turn 30 and won't feel comfortable "going out" after she turns 30. She feels like turning 30 will mean she's old. She mentioned today that she wants to buy a red Camaro. She's always liked Camaro's and I always told her some day we'd buy one (down the road). But it just seems the things she is focused on right now are very MLC like.

It doesn't sound like she's close to this other guy anymore. Same group of friends so I have to assume they still hang out. But what she says and tells me during chit chat sure sounds like there is nobody she's worrying about right now. She seems to be loving the attention she is getting, but not acting on it much. Just seems she is very insecure about getting older, didn't feel I was making her feel good about herself, and now this attention is giving her confidence and what not.

She actually told me today though, that her toxic cousin/friend is starting to wear on her. She won't leave her alone and is jealous of her. Everyone else has noticed this about her cousin forever. She's noticing now too. Her cousin is seriously the most insecure person in the world, so sleeps with anything to make herself feel better...and is so jealous of my W that she tries to control her and emulate her. It's really an unhealthy relationship. So it's positive that she is starting to get fed up with that, although I don't expect she'll stop hanging out with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

It is not a mid life crisis.

It is selfishness and low self esteem. Neither of which you can fix.

I have said before that your wife needs to grow up. She is immature.

Again there is nothing you can do. Only she can do the work.

And Red Camaros are hot! That is the only smart thing she has said in weeks that makes any sense.

And there is no better feeling when your kids miss you after a trip.....


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## BeYou

Lol..yes red camaros are hot!

And yes you're right, she has growing up to do for sure.


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## Conrad

BeYou said:


> Also wanted to mention, I'm thinking she might be MLCing. It crossed my mind before, but thought maybe I was just looking for a reason for all of this.
> 
> But today at breakfast she mentioned how afraid she is of getting old. She turns 30 next spring. She mentioned she wants to go to vegas again one last time and just go nuts because she is afraid to turn 30 and won't feel comfortable "going out" after she turns 30. She feels like turning 30 will mean she's old. She mentioned today that she wants to buy a red Camaro. She's always liked Camaro's and I always told her some day we'd buy one (down the road). But it just seems the things she is focused on right now are very MLC like.
> 
> It doesn't sound like she's close to this other guy anymore. Same group of friends so I have to assume they still hang out. But what she says and tells me during chit chat sure sounds like there is nobody she's worrying about right now. She seems to be loving the attention she is getting, but not acting on it much. Just seems she is very insecure about getting older, didn't feel I was making her feel good about herself, and now this attention is giving her confidence and what not.
> 
> She actually told me today though, that her toxic cousin/friend is starting to wear on her. She won't leave her alone and is jealous of her. Everyone else has noticed this about her cousin forever. She's noticing now too. Her cousin is seriously the most insecure person in the world, so sleeps with anything to make herself feel better...and is so jealous of my W that she tries to control her and emulate her. It's really an unhealthy relationship. So it's positive that she is starting to get fed up with that, although I don't expect she'll stop hanging out with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see you are still focused on every twitch and utterance she makes.

How are YOU doing?


----------



## BeYou

I'm doing okay. Like I said, I was just out of town for 4 days and had a blast. Back home now. Her being at the airport with our son made me feel very positive feelings for her again and made me miss what we had again. I wanted to hug her too.

Spending 4 days in my own hotel suite made me kind of want my own space. So I feel like I should start looking for my own place seriously, and move out of my buddies place.

I just got a text from her cousin tonight asking me to come watch the dogs because my W was hit in the head with a golf ball today and had to get stitches!!! Of course I immediately wanted to go to the hospital, but the cousin told me I shouldn't because guess who was there?

She sent me a pic, and she has probably 10 stitches in the forehead. I'm sitting at her house right now to watch the dogs. She should be home soon.

What a day...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I'm doing okay. Like I said, I was just out of town for 4 days and had a blast. Back home now. Her being at the airport with our son made me feel very positive feelings for her again and made me miss what we had again. I wanted to hug her too.
> 
> Spending 4 days in my own hotel suite made me kind of want my own space. So I feel like I should start looking for my own place seriously, and move out of my buddies place.
> 
> I just got a text from her cousin tonight asking me to come watch the dogs because my W was hit in the head with a golf ball today and had to get stitches!!! Of course I immediately wanted to go to the hospital, but the cousin told me I shouldn't because guess who was there?
> 
> She sent me a pic, and she has probably 10 stitches in the forehead. I'm sitting at her house right now to watch the dogs. She should be home soon.
> 
> What a day...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BU

I hope you get it sooner rather than later.

Screw the dogs. Your only responsibility shoud be for your son. Your wife was probably playing golf with the OM.

But no matter, just realize who she had with her.

And the appropriate response to the cousin should have been "Tell her I hope she fees better, the OM can take care of her and the dogs...".

HM64


----------



## forumman83

So let me get this straight...she got hit in the head with a golf ball...OM was at the hospital caring for her??


----------



## BeYou

forumman83 said:


> So let me get this straight...she got hit in the head with a golf ball...OM was at the hospital caring for her??


Sounds like there were a few people there. She was golfing with her cousin and friend. Her friends boyfriend, the other guy (who is friends with her friends bf) and some others in that group of friends all showed up.

She told me today that she wouldn't have minded if I showed up even though that guy was there. It was her cousin who was saying not to. To be fair, her cousin would have told me not to either way...she is the type who wouldn't want anyone else getting in the way of a close moment with my W. she is seriously that attached.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> Sounds like there were a few people there. She was golfing with her cousin and friend. Her friends boyfriend, the other guy (who is friends with her friends bf) and some others in that group of friends all showed up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you suspect ther is something going on between them


----------



## BeYou

forumman83 said:


> Do you suspect ther is something going on between them


Yes I know there is. It's not serious or "official" but she admitted a few weeks ago that they were "seeing eah other". But it seems to be quite casual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> Yes I know there is. It's not serious or "official" but she admitted a few weeks ago that they were "seeing eah other". But it seems to be quite casual.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like you are making excuses. 

stop being there for her mentally, physically, emotionally or whatever. She texts you, you don't respond. She emails you, you don't respond. She calls you, you don't answer. You need to find YOUR value again. 

Your current behavior makes it MUCH easier for her to move on and hurts any chance of reconciliation.


----------



## BeYou

forumman83 said:


> Sounds like you are making excuses.
> 
> stop being there for her mentally, physically, emotionally or whatever. She texts you, you don't respond. She emails you, you don't respond. She calls you, you don't answer. You need to find YOUR value again.
> 
> Your current behavior makes it MUCH easier for her to move on and hurts any chance of reconciliation.


You know, I do fine for a few days and don't contact her and what not, but then as Conrad says, she gives me a crumb and succumb to it. Then I want more. We go out together and have a great time every fricken time which leads me to wanting more.

But you're right that I need to start doing the proper thing all the time, not just 4-5 days at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> You know, I do fine for a few days and don't contact her and what not, but then as Conrad says, she gives me a crumb and succumb to it. Then I want more. We go out together and have a great time every fricken time which leads me to wanting more.
> 
> But you're right that I need to start doing the proper thing all the time, not just 4-5 days at a time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you need an "official" girlfriend. What is good for the goose
Is good for the gander........


----------



## BeYou

No I don't need a girlfriend. I just need my balls back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> No I don't need a girlfriend. I just need my balls back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You said it.......

And I hope you find them.

Because when you find them you are going to know what to do and how to make yourself happy.

Then life will be good.


----------



## forumman83

Be...whats your plan of action here. 

Or do you not really have one.


----------



## BeYou

Since I got back from my trip...haven't had one. I was more focused before. But since I've gotten back, we have spent a little time together every day and I'm right back to trying to obtain more of that. However, it's obvious again that while she acts happy and what not while we are in each others presence, the second I leave, I drop off her radar and she continues on. She'll say "I'll call you in a bit" and imply we will hang out again later, but then won't call. So after 2 days of that, that's enough. I'm giving into her, and then hanging on her words.

I was thinking/hoping this time together as of late was going to lead to something, and who knows, maybe it is something in its infancy...but not now. However, I do think the last couple days have been positive enough that she might miss it if it goes away now.

So that's the plan. Back to LC and refocusing on me again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

So she called this morning already, to clarify something with son. But of course we chatted about her injury. Such a freak fricken accident. She's going to end up with a serious facial bruise.

Anyway, she asked what we were doing today and said I should call her later, as she was going to go lay down again (lots of pain). I told her if she wants, she can call me instead and ended the call. As far as our contact goes, the balls going to be in her court from now on. I'm not calling just for the hell of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Detach, detach, detach.

Let her BF take care of her. Focus on you and your boy.

PS

Her brain is bruised too! Stop caring........


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> Detach, detach, detach.
> 
> Let her BF take care of her. Focus on you and your boy.
> 
> PS
> 
> Her brain is bruised too! Stop caring........


Happy,

How many times do you think you can repeat the same message?


----------



## BeYou

Might have to be a couple hundred Conrad. 

Hard to stick to when she's willing to hang out and we have fun together. But I am refocusing again and will move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I know Conrad that I am repeating myself but I have hope that sooner or later he will wise up.

Either that or I will give up on Be You when his wife leaves tire tracks on his back or the OM knocks her up.......


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> Might have to be a couple hundred Conrad.
> 
> Hard to stick to when she's willing to hang out and we have fun together. But I am refocusing again and will move forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No excuse, man. Trust us.


----------



## BeYou

I'm on board gents. Wisin' up. Pretty ridiculous what I've been doing.

Went shopping today and grabbed things in preparation for getting in the best shape of my life. I'm not out of shape by any means, but I would mind seeing my 6-pack which is currently slightly hidden. Haha.

Had a moment with my son today that opened my eyes a little. He's been complaining about EVERYTHIG and talking back constantly. Words were not working with him. Finally had to take real action and get him straight. The result was a child who suddenly respected me a LOT more. Suddenly he was sweet, answered questions properly, didn't talk back, and told me he loved me.

Boundaries.

I suspect as you guys have been saying all along, they work on more than just children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

> I suspect as you guys have been saying all along, they work on more than just children.


As long as you treat your wife like a child, especially when she acts like one.

Now start showing yourself some respect the same way you showed your son how to behave.....


----------



## BeYou

Done and done bud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

She texted me an update last night about her hospital update. Chatted briefly and then put my phone away. Today is day 1.

She's texted me today already a couple hours ago saying her head hurts. Haven't responded. Feels weird to "not care" and to not respond when she's reaching out. But I'm trusting you guys.


----------



## BeYou

LOL...

So pretty much exactly 3 hours after she sent that text, I get a call from her at work (number doesn't come up so didn't know it would be her) asking if I've been getting her text messages.

I said I got one that said your head hurt.

"Oh, okay. Just checking!"

Weird. Especially considering it's using iMessage so it would tell her that it's been delivered. 

Sorry, just wanted to share...kinda funny.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> LOL...
> 
> So pretty much exactly 3 hours after she sent that text, I get a call from her at work (number doesn't come up so didn't know it would be her) asking if I've been getting her text messages.
> 
> I said I got one that said your head hurt.
> 
> "Oh, okay. Just checking!"
> 
> Weird. Especially considering it's using iMessage so it would tell her that it's been delivered.
> 
> Sorry, just wanted to share...kinda funny.


Lesson 1. Ignore her texts unless it is about your son.

Lesson 2. Ignore her.

Lesson 3. Do not answer the phone if you have no caller I'd. Let someone else answer or get caller I'd.

Lesson 4. Ignore her.


----------



## BeYou

happyman64 said:


> Lesson 1. Ignore her texts unless it is about your son.
> 
> Lesson 2. Ignore her.
> 
> Lesson 3. Do not answer the phone if you have no caller I'd. Let someone else answer or get caller I'd.
> 
> Lesson 4. Ignore her.


I did ignore the text.

I have to answer it...it's my work phone. She called from her work phone (she works at same company, different building).

That's what I am doing.

I'm curious HM64, as to why your advice has gone from "accept invites, be pleasant" to "ignore her at all costs"?


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> I did ignore the text.
> 
> I have to answer it...it's my work phone. She called from her work phone (she works at same company, different building).
> 
> That's what I am doing.
> 
> I'm curious HM64, as to why your advice has gone from "accept invites, be pleasant" to "ignore her at all costs"?


Very simple answer. She added the BF to the spectrum. You are her backup.

You are no ones backup my man and you should never be.

The "accept her invites" was for the party and that busy weekend which I Felt was quality time with her and her family which served 2 purposes.

Now she thinks she has her BF and you. Not good. Change the dynamic and remove yourself from that equation.

Married people do not hurt each other that way, unless they are legally separated and working on the D.

Are you legally separated and working on the D? Is she?

Just think of the conflicting signals sent to your kid.

That is just plain wrong.

Simple.


----------



## MSC71

BeYou said:


> LOL...
> 
> So pretty much exactly 3 hours after she sent that text, I get a call from her at work (number doesn't come up so didn't know it would be her) asking if I've been getting her text messages.
> 
> I said I got one that said your head hurt.
> 
> "Oh, okay. Just checking!"
> 
> Weird. Especially considering it's using iMessage so it would tell her that it's been delivered.
> 
> Sorry, just wanted to share...kinda funny.


She's just making sure she still has you where she wants incase other man doesn't work out. And your responses to her and inability to not talk to her is proving that. So what would happen if you did not answer the phone? I imagine the person could leave a message, correct? So don't answer. But I honestly think you answered hoping it was her.


----------



## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> She's just making sure she still has you where she wants incase other man doesn't work out. And your responses to her and inability to not talk to her is proving that. So what would happen if you did not answer the phone? I imagine the person could leave a message, correct? So don't answer. But I honestly think you answered hoping it was her.


A person could leave a message yes. But I'm not about to start not answering my work phone and letting everything go to voicemail haha. Especially right now we have some important stuff going on, and I'm an important piece of that.

That said, you're right...hearing it was her didn't disappoint me. But not in a "glad to hear her voice" kind of way...more in a "tables turned momentarily" kind of way.

Anyway, you guys are right. I'm kicking it into ignore mode and we'll see how that goes.

Had my son for the last 4 nights. I miss him already!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## forumman83

BeYou said:


> A person could leave a message yes. But I'm not about to start not answering my work phone and letting everything go to voicemail haha. Especially right now we have some important stuff going on, and I'm an important piece of that.
> 
> That said, you're right...hearing it was her didn't disappoint me. But not in a "glad to hear her voice" kind of way...more in a "tables turned momentarily" kind of way.
> 
> Anyway, you guys are right. I'm kicking it into ignore mode and we'll see how that goes.
> 
> Had my son for the last 4 nights. I miss him already!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are making excuses for not having it in you to ignore her and one on with your life. It's really sad, from the outside, to see you being Plan B to your own wife. 

I wish you could see it yourself instead of making excuses.


----------



## BeYou

forumman83 said:


> You are making excuses for not having it in you to ignore her and one on with your life. It's really sad, from the outside, to see you being Plan B to your own wife.
> 
> I wish you could see it yourself instead of making excuses.


Hehe dude...I'm not making excuses. I didn't reply to the text. If I was making excuses, I would have just replied to the text.

You guys are being a tad silly that I should let all my calls go to voicemail "just in case" it's her calling when 9/10 it wouldn't be.

I'm on board with ignoring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSC71

BeYou said:


> Hehe dude...I'm not making excuses. I didn't reply to the text. If I was making excuses, I would have just replied to the text.
> 
> You guys are being a tad silly that I should let all my calls go to voicemail "just in case" it's her calling when 9/10 it wouldn't be.
> 
> I'm on board with ignoring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think you should let all calls go to voice mail. I assume 99% of calls have a caller ID show up? If that is true and you get an unknown number every now and then, don't answer.


----------



## BeYou

MSC71 said:


> I don't think you should let all calls go to voice mail. I assume 99% of calls have a caller ID show up? If that is true and you get an unknown number every now and then, don't answer.


If an internal call is coming from someone's office, it says who it is. If it's coming from a "shared" phone, it just says the company name. Anyway, I'm going to practice setting boundaries, and set a boundary on you guys here, lol  I will answer my work phone even if it doesn't show who it is.  And not because I'll be hoping it's her...but because it's the responsible thing to do in my position at work.


----------



## BeYou

This place is basically my journal, so just making another entry.

She texted this morning asking if I knew of a farm that would take our one dog. We have (or she has now) 2 dogs. She's wanting to get rid of them both. I didn't reply for a good 3+ hours again, but then just replied with "nope."

I haven't looked at Facebook in weeks, I come to despise that place in moments like this, with everyone's fake portrayals of how amazing their life is...or how horrible the world is to them. But I received a "push notification" on my phone today saying she had changed her profile pic to one of my photos from my gallery: a picture of her that I took while at a nice supper in Vegas a couple months ago.

She had/let my son call me last night to say goodnight. This is not something we have been doing thus far. I have told my son that any time he wants to call his mommy, he can...and I also wrote my number down for him and left it at the house and told him he can call me anytime. But last night is the first time, and she mentioned today that she would call tonight again to let him talk to me. Not sure why she has suddenly decided to start this.


----------



## Conrad

Because he is asking.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> Because he is asking.


Last night quite possibly yes. Sounds like she is planning the call ahead of time for tonight though.

Anyway, not really reading into it. Just odd that it suddenly started. But I love it! Nothing better than having a quick goodnight chat with my son!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Last night quite possibly yes. Sounds like she is planning the call ahead of time for tonight though.
> 
> Anyway, not really reading into it. Just odd that it suddenly started. But I love it! Nothing better than having a quick goodnight chat with my son!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing better than having a goodnight chat with your child ever. Never make it quick.

In the end, amidst all this marriage chaos never forget what really matters is your children if you have them. 

Because they are the only persons you can truly trust in life to take care of you or help you.

Think about that for a minute tonight before your call.......


----------



## BeYou

So I received a call each of the last 3 nights. Went from none, to 3 nights in a row. Good God I love talking to that little man. He always sounds so sweet on the phone and I just smile ear to ear for the whole conversation.

She always asks for the phone from him after to chat with me. Last night she was telling me about a story at work and what not. I ended the call by saying "I'm gonna let you go now so you can go take care of (our son). Have a good night."

He's back with me tonight. I'm not sure if I should tell him to call her each night now to return the favour, or just wait and see if he asks.


----------



## Conrad

BeYou said:


> So I received a call each of the last 3 nights. Went from none, to 3 nights in a row. Good God I love talking to that little man. He always sounds so sweet on the phone and I just smile ear to ear for the whole conversation.
> 
> She always asks for the phone from him after to chat with me. Last night she was telling me about a story at work and what not. I ended the call by saying "I'm gonna let you go now so you can go take care of (our son). Have a good night."
> 
> He's back with me tonight. I'm not sure if I should tell him to call her each night now to return the favour, or just wait and see if he asks.


See if he asks.


----------



## BeYou

Conrad said:


> See if he asks.


And if he doesn't, don't ask?

See he hasn't asked me to call his mom any night thus far, which leads me to think that she initiated that with him. Especially since the call last night came as they were leaving her mom's from supper...not just before bed.

I'm worried that if they have been initated by her, and I don't return the favour...that she will stop.


----------



## happyman64

God I need a 2x4 for you Be You.

Conrad is right.

Don't ask him if he wants to call Mommy.

Only do it if he asks.

And stop doing her favors. 

If she wants to contact you I am sure she will find an excuse.

And when she does, say great talking to you but I have to go to take care of our son. Click........


----------



## BeYou

HM64...I'm not worried about this because I want to talk to her. In fact I'd have no problem letting him call and hang up without me ever touching the phone. I'm worried that if he doesn't call her when I have him, that she'll stop telling him to call me when she has him.

No 2x4 needed. This is about my son, not her.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Your son will call her if he wants to.

By insisting that he calls, you may put the thought in his head that it's wrong for him NOT to call.


----------



## BeYou

UpnOver said:


> Your son will call her if he wants to.
> 
> By insisting that he calls, you may put the thought in his head that it's wrong for him NOT to call.


I wouldn't insist he call her, but asking him if he wants to call mom before bed doesn't seem like a horrible thing to do.

If you don't ask or let him know he can, you may put the thought in his head that it's wrong for him TO call.

Anyway, I'll deal with it.


----------



## BeYou

So last time we split, after a while, I signed up for an online dating site. About a week ago, I decided to check it out again and changed my profile just looking to "meet people". Haven't actually met anyone aside from sending a couple messages.

Just got a text from W asking how that site is. She just found out from her toxic cousin who signed up on it and saw my profile.


----------



## BeYou

Why do I feel guilty now? I feel guilty that I have this profile on that dating site. I felt a tad guilty before, and now that she knows, moreso. She didn't seem upset about it at all. And I told her I had actually set it up last time we split, but just recently added a pic. Her only question was if I had talked to anything through it while we were together. I told her no - promise, in fact I never really used it at all after setting it up last time.


----------



## MSC71

BeYou said:


> Why do I feel guilty now? I feel guilty that I have this profile on that dating site. I felt a tad guilty before, and now that she knows, moreso. She didn't seem upset about it at all. And I told her I had actually set it up last time we split, but just recently added a pic. Her only question was if I had talked to anything through it while we were together. I told her no - promise, in fact I never really used it at all after setting it up last time.


you shouldn't give a crap what she thinks. she left. She sent you that text to mess with your head. You are spending way too much energy analyzing things and trying to find hidden meanings. Unless it involves your son, it's none of her business.


----------



## BeYou

She is making/has made amends with her brother. A few weeks ago she said she would never talk to him again. But lately they've been hanging out again.

Had a pretty good day today though. Had to go buy her place this morning to grab sons books for school. Quick chat, asked her how she was feeling (stiches out but reopened, had to get more).

Went in to work this morning for a little bit and then had a football tournament this afternoon. Was in a great mood and was pumped for football. Drove there with tunes turned up, loving life at that moment. Played football all afternoon, hurt like hell now...but a good hurt. 

Have a buddy coming over in a bit to have a couple beer on the deck. Going to a football game on Sunday. Felt confidence today. Felt good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## forumman83

Good, but remember, after the ups, there usually comes a down. Nothin' you can do about it but ride it out.


----------



## BeYou

Had no contact all day yesterday except for a brief 30 secs when she called last night to talk to our son. I gave him he phone and he hung up right after even though it sounded like she was hanging on. He goes back to her place today for the next 3 nights.

I'm going to the football game today with a buddy, so that should be good.

I'm in an odd spot right now. I kind of don't want to talk to her. I feel like I am at a crossroad. On one hand, I don't feel like talking to her...on the other hand, it doesn't feel right to do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Why do I feel guilty now? I feel guilty that I have this profile on that dating site. I felt a tad guilty before, and now that she knows, moreso. She didn't seem upset about it at all. And I told her I had actually set it up last time we split, but just recently added a pic. Her only question was if I had talked to anything through it while we were together. I told her no - promise, in fact I never really used it at all after setting it up last time.


That is your whole problem. Your wife does not deserve to ask you that question let alone get an answer.

Ignore her or tell her to mind her own business oncerning your dating.


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> That is your whole problem. Your wife does not deserve to ask you that question let alone get an answer.
> 
> Ignore her or tell her to mind her own business oncerning your dating.


Happy,

Seriously.

She's banging posOM and BeYou feels guilty about a dating site?


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> Happy,
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> She's banging posOM and BeYou feels guilty about a dating site?


So true Conrad.

So sadly true.


----------



## BeYou

The guilt was short lived. Just that day. I don't feel guilty about it anymore.

I think it was just because it felt like I was "busted" for some reason. Not sure why it felt that way.

Just texted her to tell her when I'll be dropping son off. Feels weird to not chat or even suggest going for breakfast...but not doing it. One text to let her know time and that's it. Just finished breakfast at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

I think the reason for the way I feel is because the last time we split, I did the reading and had a plan and was convinced through the reading and plan that as long as ONE person is still trying to fix things, that's it is possible. And well, that worked. It was only me working for it, and we got back together eventually.

Not only that, but I was doing the same thing that she is doing now, and I realized at some point that it wasn't right.

So my own history is working against me here and is telling me as long as I keep working at it and be patient, what she is doing right now doesn't matter.

That said...I am doing the NC. It just doesn't feel right at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BeYou

Aside from dropping son off yesterday, another day of NC.

Football game was great, we won. Went for drinks after with a couple friends and then called it a night.

Decent day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Good for you.

Keep having those days. Work on improving you and your life.


----------



## BeYou

Having a good day at work today. Just about gym time, then supper with my mother.

I have nothing to be sad or upset about. I have the power. I am a good dude, have a great kid, attractive, friends, good job, and I have and continue to grow through this process.

I made mistakes in the relationship, I sure did. But I've acknowledged and owned those.

I'm desirable. My W knows it. She's in a battle with herself right now. Her loss.

I don't need to play games right now. I just need to be me. No more "what should I do" nonsense. What I should do is what is good for me, and what I FEEL like doing. What FEELS right.

Off to the gym. Making me a better me one day at a time. Watch out.


----------



## happyman64

BeYou said:


> Having a good day at work today. Just about gym time, then supper with my mother.
> 
> I have nothing to be sad or upset about. I have the power. I am a good dude, have a great kid, attractive, friends, good job, and I have and continue to grow through this process.
> 
> I made mistakes in the relationship, I sure did. But I've acknowledged and owned those.
> 
> I'm desirable. My W knows it. She's in a battle with herself right now. Her loss.
> 
> I don't need to play games right now. I just need to be me. No more "what should I do" nonsense. What I should do is what is good for me, and what I FEEL like doing. What FEELS right.
> 
> Off to the gym. Making me a better me one day at a time. Watch out.


That is it my friend. Confidence. Some new Alpha traits will be good for you.

Do it everyday.

Let your W fight her battles in her own head. She needs to grow up on her time, not yours.


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## MSC71

Awesome. You have come a long way since you started this thread. :thumbup:


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## forumman83

nice work buddy keep this attitude up...for life


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## BeYou

I'm in a good routine of hitting the gym every day. Love it!

My confidence has remained pretty high most of the time. I feel happier. I feel myself getting back to the old me in my communication with coworkers and friends.

I'm not "worrying" about how to react to every little thing my W does, I just do what I feel like and don't worry about it. If I want to respond to her text...I do. If I don't, I don't. Done playing the game.

I'm CHOOSING my attitude more now. For example, a couple days ago, my W texted me at 7:30am and said "we need to talk about these dogs and fish."

In otherwords, she wants to get rid of them. The fish were mind so that's understandable, and the one dog pees all over everything all the time...always has. That night he had peed on a bunch of stuff through the night so she was angry with him.

Now before, this would have upset me a bunch. It would have been more signs of things finalizing... But this time, I didn't respond immediately, told myself not to let it bother me...and decided to make light of it...

So I replied with some Dr. Seuss style rhyming...

Her: "we need to talk about these dogs and fish."

Me: "We can if you want, we can if you wish."
"But don't move too fast, don't be too hasty - In a pinch, dogs and fish are quite tasty."

She laughed and said the disobedient one has to go to the humane society...

Me: "Poor little **dogs name**, oh what did you do? Oh yeah, you growled and you barked and pissed in a shoe."


I felt great after that. A situation that used to get me down, made me happy, got her to laugh.

We actually ended up going for a coffee later that day at work. It was pretty good. Again, light-hearted. I got a little co-cky at one point (I no longer feel like I'm trying to win her back from a source of pain, I feel like I am approaching this more from the perspective that she is a new girl I like, one of a few options I have..." and said to her "so when are you going to let me take you on a date?"

She replied that she was busy this weekend (cousin's birthday Friday - he's a good guy, and a work event Saturday). I said yeah you sound busy, maybe sometime next week?

And she says "Sure."

Later that day she texted me about helping out with our son's recent expenses (some sports/activites, winter gear) that she has purchased all of. I had full intention of helping, but hadn't given her anything yet. I said yes I would help, and that I recently paid the cell bill which would cover portion of it, and would get her some additional cash to cover the rest...and then told her I was in the middle of something so talk later.

She at one point replies "don't worry about it, I don't need it" then proceeded to give me the "I'm fine - not fine" attitude the next day when I tried to talk to her about it and kept saying she didn't want any money from me, she can handle it on her own. No more "date". I told her that I will be giving her money because he is my son and I won't let her refuse it out of stubbornness and then turn around and try and hate me later because I didn't help with our son, like her mother did with her father.

Anyway, I left it alone at that point. I get a text later in the afternoon saying now that she is in a happier mood, can I help with our son's stuff. I said yes, but we need to talk about this situation. Talked to her and told her that she will be stopping this behaviour right now. That she doesn't get to flip flop like this on these matters just because her mood changes, or because she suddenly realizes she needs money, and that I won't tolerate it. As mentioned earlier in the thread...boundaries and treated childish actions with parental like boundaries.

Anyway, it worked. She straightened up on the call. I met her after work to get her some money. I apologized for being late on it and admitted I should have asked about it earlier (she paid the fees 2 weeks ago). She said no, she was sorry for getting upset about it, and that she was being stubborn and was just waiting for me to offer instead of her having to ask.

WHOA...WHAT? She said SORRY. And admitted she was STUBBORN. She APOLOGIZED about how she reacted, and for not talking to me earlier.

She rarely, rarely apologizes and admits anything. So this caught me by surprise. FOR ONCE...we had a conflict based on a misunderstanding, we talked, we solved it, and were both happy at the end. WOW. Lol.

Anyway, then she asks me if I want to go for a drink after work. I had to go pick up son, so we agreed maybe later.

I joked "since you're in a happy mood again now, is our "date" back on for next week?" She replied with a big smile "we'll talk about it."

Anyway, I am filled with so much more confidence now. I'm not how these "date" things are going to read, but in reality, this is coming from a position of power now it feels. I feel like I am simply giving her the opportunity for a "date" with me...versus pathetically begging for it. When I walk into her work, I see her coworkers checking me out, and I know they say things to her. 

As it turns out, her work event on Saturday, I have now been invited to by her manager. They were all going to the football game, and have extra teams and so have invited a few people from their "supporting" groups. She called me to see if I got my invite yet, which I had no idea what she was talking about. But I did get it shortly after. A few friends of mine were also invited (invluding the girl on our ball team who she was super jealous of), so I decided to go. I'll be hanging out with those peops rather than focusing on her. But she did mention that we'll be "going out and drinking together" on Saturday. Considering it's a bunch of work people, a late football game, and a generally young group...it's bound to be a bit of a party.

So anyway, today I feel good again. This feeling has been going well for about a week. Happier with everyone around me, more productive at work, hitting gym steadily, and able to deal with my W in a much more confident, alpha manner.

Sorry for the long update.


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## happyman64

Good update though.

Keep the focus on you and your son. Keep up on your responsibilities as well. Never give her any excuse.

You handled it well. Put her in her place the right way.

have a good time this weekend and keep exercising.

Maybe you will motivate me to start working out again. I need it.

By the way, I like the Dr. Seuss ryhmes. Very f'ing clever. kudos to you.


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## BeYou

I will definitely keep exercising. My original plan was to hit the gym on days where I didn't have to go pick up my son. But instead, I have chosen to just go to the gym earlier on those days so I can pick him up at the normal time. So instead of being able to go 2-3 times a week...I will have gone 5 days this week. And now I don't want to miss a day.

Had a full NC day yesterday. We didn't talk even once. I'm expecting the same today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

I guess my expectations were off. 

She texted me this morning about how busy it was going to be at work (big day for our company). Then asked if I wanted a coffee because she was going to grab one.

Still loving the new/old way I am communicating with co-workers. Instead of avoiding people, I'm back to high-fives, "pounding it", and chatting with people I don't usually chat with and chatting more with people I used to chat with very little. It's all about the confidence and happiness.

I am a happy and confident dude by nature. I'm a likable dude. There's something about relationships that turns me into a wimp. It's call codependence. I attract people with who I am: confident, happy, fun, likeable...and then push them away as I turn into a grumpy, boring, old "partner."

Never losing myself like that again. Enough is enough.


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## BeYou

Another thing I have just started working on...

I'm a Snooze Buttoner...I mean was. I'd hit it 5-6 times a morning.

I'm guilty of always thinking I have more time than I actually do. This results in me being late, or pressed for time quite a bit. I'm not a morning person. My W was/is. She also HATES being late for things.

In the past when she brought up the issue that I would never be up in the morning to help her get S ready, or that her and S would have to wait for me in the morning...I would make excuses...or smarten up for a week and then fall back into it.

However, this has been something that's been bugging me lately too. It's stupid. I just need to get my ass out of bed, get ready, and be places early. Quit being a dope.

The other day I saw an image online that said "If you think 15 more minutes of sleep is going to make your feel more awake, you're going to have a bad day" or something like that.

That was it. Instead of setting multiple alarms, I set one for me, and one for my son. I get up on the first alarm. I now have time to do everything that needs done in the morning without rushing and being late. I have him to school 10-15 minutes early instead of RIGHT at the bell. I'm at work 10-15 minutes early instead of 5 minutes late.

This just started 2 days ago, but so far so good. And it's kind of like the gym. Now that I've shown committment to it, I don't want to stop.

Improving me, one day at a time.


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## BeYou

Man oh man. What this world doesn't have planned for us.

I can give a full update later, but I am in a COMPLETELY different mindset nowadays. I don't want to get back together with my W. I finally accepted the reality and truth about her and us that I had been trying to suppress for so long.

I still plan to be completely civil with her. But even when I see her now...it's just gone for me. She isn't who I want.

I went out for a drink with a girl a litttle over a week ago, just completely with zero intentions at all...but just to get out with the opposite sex. It was fine, but was kind of a turning point for me. It just woke me up. After that, I started enjoying time out with friends more, I enjoyed time alone more, I enjoy everything more. I am at peace. I now WANT to get my own place, I WANT to finalize things. I want to move on and start the next phase of my life.

Since that turning point, odd things have been happening...in a good way. One of those being the chance to actually meet a person who I never thought I'd ever formally meet...and we are developing a friendship right now.

Don't want to get into it too much as I'm laying in bed and on my phone.

But just wanted to give a quick update that I'm kicking ass right now. I've had no desire to text or call my W for the last week...and so just haven't. My head is no longer focused on her constantly, but instead on me, my son, my friends, and my new friend.

I have a really good feeling about this and have a feeling I might look back at this as a very positive thing in my life. The relief I am feeling already from not having to deal with her and her family feels great!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Beyou did you get it on with the one your wife hated? Doesn't make you a bad guy.


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## BeYou

Hehe what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou

Good for you. 

Now you are starting to understand you.......

Only "you" can make yourself truly happy.

Get your finances, separation/divorce in order before you get too serious with anyone.

Just enjoy life and your son.

And beware of the fact that your wife is going o see you pull away.

She might try to pull you back. Do not let her do this to you.

You need to take control of your destiny.

Keep moving forward BeYou.

HM64


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## stuckmick

Im glad you have come to the point where you can make....a choice. Good luck, i hope the best for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeYou

HM64...

Yeah she gave me a snippy text one day about ignoring her calls and texts. Which I didn't do at all, just hadn't replied to a call immediately. And how many times did she ignore my calls or texts? She's feeling the control leaving her hands.

Anyway, yes I am in a good place. Not getting serious with anyone. Need to find a place to live so I can go get my stuff from the house and move forward on this. D has to wait 10 more months, but there is a lot I can do to move on between now and then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BeYou said:


> HM64...
> 
> Yeah she gave me a snippy text one day about ignoring her calls and texts. Which I didn't do at all, just hadn't replied to a call immediately. And how many times did she ignore my calls or texts? She's feeling the control leaving her hands.
> 
> Anyway, yes I am in a good place. Not getting serious with anyone. Need to find a place to live so I can go get my stuff from the house and move forward on this. D has to wait 10 more months, but there is a lot I can do to move on between now and then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you Be You. A lot will happen in 10 months.

Make that time well spent on you and your kid.

You will be looking like a new man soon.


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## J Valley

Hi BeYou,

It has been a long time since we heard from you. Any updates?


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