# Advice on what to do next



## Larry12

As posted in the new members forum - Thanks for the welcome. It's amazing to think a community like this exists. Never thought for a second I would need to find you.

I still can't believe i'm writting this and hope it reads clearly and logically.

A little over a week ago I discovered that my wife was having an affair. I was able to obtain information about her whereabouts and when I quizzed her about certain events, she told me a different story to what I had found out. I knew she was lying. I had a couple of attempts over a couple of nights to ask her what had happened vs what I knew and there were a lot of lies followed by some version of the truth when I revealed what I knew. It ended when I told her I was done as I couldn't take anymore of her lying and we were beyond help. She told me that the last time she met with the other person, she left and told him that it was done and deleted his number and conversation history. 

About halfway through the revelation process and before we got further into the lies, I asked her what she wanted and she did say that she would like to attempt therapy to attempt to save our marriage (3 years). I was originally contemplating this as I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it. She has some really great qualities I have not seen in anyone else and life was, on the whole, very fulfilling. I hate giving up on things especially if I consider doing this to the woman I love (although i'm not sure who that person is now). We have been together for around 10 years in total. From what I can tell the affair started shortly after our wedding. We have no kids but we bought an apartment together 5 years ago (50/50). She has been living a double life with her parents from young age but never thought that she would add another life to her already complex situation. The ordeal ended with us both numb and frustratingly I felt that she lacked empathy and compassion I needed.

Without realising it, ever since I said it was over, I have implemented a lot of the steps in the 180 affair recovery. I have had a few messages with her to discuss sleeping arrangements, to discuss a bill and to ask whether I still want to go to therapy to which I responded that I think so. I'm not sure if she believes this will be so that I can get closure or to work on us. I didn't want to say too much. I did see her about a week ago as she was getting a few things. We had a long stare into each to each others eyes and I felt the sparks again. I'm convinced she did as well.

We have arranged to meet in a couple of days but i'm not sure what to say or how to progress the situation. I understood that she was going to look for somewhere else to stay but i'm not sure how far that has progressed. I'm not even sure if she would be prepared to work at the marriage and would rather be by herself for a while in which case I wouldn't have a decision to make. Last week I was convinced there was no way back but after speaking to some friends and reading up online, we wouldn't be the first to get through this type of thing. Then there's the apartment to sort out. Fair to say i'm pretty confused how to play this.


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## Marc878

Larry12 said:


> As posted in the new members forum - Thanks for the welcome. It's amazing to think a community like this exists. Never thought for a second I would need to find you.
> 
> I still can't believe i'm writting this and hope it reads clearly and logically.
> 
> A little over a week ago I discovered that my wife was having an affair. I was able to obtain information about her whereabouts and when I quizzed her about certain events, she told me a different story to what I had found out. I knew she was lying. I had a couple of attempts over a couple of nights to ask her what had happened vs what I knew and there were a lot of lies followed by some version of the truth when I revealed what I knew. It ended when I told her I was done as I couldn't take anymore of her lying and we were beyond help. She told me that the last time they met, she left and told him that it was done and deleted his number and conversation history.
> 
> Bud, cheaters lie a lot. You really can’t trust anything she says. At this time you should inform her other mans wife if he’s married without any warning or informing your wife. This is a crucial 1st step don’t skip it. Go online and check your phone bill his number will probably be there.
> 
> About halfway through the revelation process and before we got further into the lies, I asked her what she wanted and she did say that she would like to attempt therapy to attempt to save our marriage (3 years). I was originally contemplating this as I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it. She has some really great qualities I have not seen in anyone else and life was, on the whole, very fulfilling. I hate giving up on things especially if I consider doing this to the woman I love (although i'm not sure who that person is now). We have been together for around 10 years in total. From what I can tell the affair started shortly after our wedding. We have no kids but we bought an apartment together 5 years ago (50/50). She has been living a double life with her parents from young age but never thought that she would add another life to her already complex situation. The ordeal ended with us both numb and frustratingly I felt that she lacked empathy and compassion I needed.
> 
> No remorse = no reconciliation. MC upfront is a bad idea. You stand a 50/50 chance of getting a bad one which can just make this worse. She needs IC if anything. Your marriage isn’t broken, she is.
> 
> Without realising it, ever since I said it was over, I have implemented a lot of the steps in the 180 affair recovery. I have had a few messages with her to discuss sleeping arrangements, to discuss a bill and to ask whether I still want to go to therapy to which I responded that I think so. I'm not sure if she believes this will be so that I can get closure or to work on us. I didn't want to say too much. I did see her about a week ago as she was getting a few things. We had a long stare into each to each others eyes and I felt the sparks again. I'm convinced she did as well.
> 
> The 180 is for detachment not to help the marriage. Her actions (sounds like she left) aren’t that of a remorseful spouse. I’d bet the affair is ongoing. It sounds like you are seeing what you want to see versus reality. Pretty common. You’re in denial.
> 
> We have arranged to meet in a couple of days but i'm not sure what to say or how to progress the situation. I understood that she was going to look for somewhere else to stay but i'm not sure how far that has progressed. I'm not even sure if she would be prepared to work at the marriage and would rather be by herself for a while in which case I wouldn't have a decision to make. Last week I was convinced there was no way back but after speaking to some friends and reading up online, we wouldn't be the first to get through this type of thing. Then there's the apartment to sort out. Fair to say i'm pretty confused how to play this.


Marriage takes two you can’t fix this yourself. Cheating right after the wedding for 3 years means she’s been living another life you weren’t part of.

No kids, what are you trying to salvage? Do not jump into R or offer it at this time. You don’t know much yet. You really don’t know if the long term affair has ended. From what I’ve I’d bet it’s ongoing. Just because you found out doesn’t meant it’s ended.

Better wake up. Her leaving is not a good sign.

The thing is the capability to cheat is there. Repeats happen. You want to go through this again?


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## Marc878

You need STD testing now you don’t know who or where this other man has been.


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## Marc878

Separation is normally to make more time for the other guy. Pretty common and happens all the time.

Don’t be surprised because right Now you only the tip of the iceberg.

If they work together or have any contact the affair is ongoing.

Affairs are addictive. They for the most part just don’t stop.


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## Marc878

The only one that can keep you in this is you.


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## Andy1001

Literally from the day you exchanged vows your wife has been cheating on you. And like every cheating spouse in history she was “just about to break up with him”. She kept lying until you revealed what you knew, and as per cheater script you probably didn’t get anywhere near the full truth. 
If you stay in this relationship (I wouldn’t consider it a marriage, you were a victim of bait and switch) then be prepared to share your wife with other men for its entirety. 
You need to understand that you never had a real marriage, you were just another part of her double life you speak about. 
I agree with the idea of counseling but I think that you need individual counseling to help you understand why you’re prepared to stay in this relationship.


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## Larry12

.


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## Larry12

Marc878 said:


> Marriage takes two you can’t fix this yourself. Cheating right after the wedding for 3 years means she’s been living another life you weren’t part of.
> 
> No kids, what are you trying to salvage? Do not jump into R or offer it at this time. You don’t know much yet. You really don’t know if the long term affair has ended. From what I’ve I’d bet it’s ongoing. Just because you found out doesn’t meant it’s ended.
> 
> Better wake up. Her leaving is not a good sign.
> 
> The thing is the capability to cheat is there. Repeats happen. You want to go through this again?



Thanks for all your points. She's been staying at a combination of her sisters and our apartment. When she's been at ours i've chosen to sleep elsewhere.

Totally agree that she is broken. I guess i'm not convinced at the moment whether she is serious to get the help she needs. What I would be willing to salvage is being with a woman that I loved, with all the amazing qualities and to salvage the life we were building. I know a lot of people will say this but she was the last person I expected this from. She never had a bad word to say about anyone, always looked positively on life, has liberal views on things etc.

It's really helped me by writting all this down. I can see that on the surface it looks like i'm in denial and that there is not much to hang onto other than potentially a fantasy/happy ending


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## Larry12

Andy1001 said:


> Literally from the day you exchanged vows your wife has been cheating on you. *And like every cheating spouse in history she was “just about to break up with him”*. She kept lying until you revealed what you knew, and as per cheater script you probably didn’t get anywhere near the full truth.
> If you stay in this relationship (I wouldn’t consider it a marriage, you were a victim of bait and switch) then be prepared to share your wife with other men for its entirety.
> You need to understand that you never had a real marriage, you were just another part of her double life you speak about.
> I agree with the idea of counseling but I think that you need individual counselling to help you understand why you’re prepared to stay in this relationship.


I know..what a classic line. 

I'd like to think I know a fair bit of what has happened with the intel I got. She says she bonded with the guy over things she couldn't tell me, mainly due to the relationship between myself and her family. 

I guess i'm still waking up to the reality of being a pawn in her life. I just find it really hard to believe the times we spent together, the adventures, the setting up of a home, the laughs were all a sham.


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## Marc878

You’ve got her on a pedestal. She’s just your fantasy of who you want her to be. Sadly that’s not who she really is.

She’s been lying to you for 3 years. Which means she has no problem doing so. Stick to the facts.

Until you wake up to reality you’ll continue to wallow in this.

There are zero excuses for her actions. At 3 years you should still be in your honeymoon phase.

Many live on hopium and live to regret it. Life is short stop wasting it.


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## Marc878

Larry12 said:


> I know..what a classic line.
> 
> I'd like to think I know a fair bit of what has happened with the intel I got. She says she bonded with the guy over things she couldn't tell me, mainly due to the relationship between myself and her family.
> 
> I guess i'm still waking up to the reality of being a pawn in her life. I just find it really hard to believe the times we spent together, the adventures, the setting up of a home, the laughs were all a sham.


Bud, she’s a cake eater. She’s had the best of two worlds. You can’t understand because you aren’t like her. 

You haven’t woken up to the cold hard facts of reality yet which means you’ll continue to linger in this.


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## Marc878

A friend of mines wife left Him for her boss with 2 young kids in the mix.

The biggest problem he had was realizing she was just a very typical cheater. Nothing special about her at all. Expect it happened to him.

They all follow the same lying cheater script. 

You sound like you aren’t ready to listen. Many come back later and wish they had.

Don’t be a chump. It’ll just make this worse than it needs to be.

Get strong and stay there.


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## Marc878

Larry12 said:


> I know..what a classic line.
> 
> I'd like to think I know a fair bit of what has happened with the intel I got. She says she bonded with the guy over things she couldn't tell me, mainly due to the relationship between myself and her family.
> 
> I guess i'm still waking up to the reality of being a pawn in her life. I just find it really hard to believe the times we spent together, the adventures, the setting up of a home, the laughs were all a sham.


Think of it this way. All those times she was just as much engaged with her other man if not more so.

Love is blind


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## Marc878

Clarity will come if you let it but your heart will betray you in these circumstances.

Continue on a hard 180. You will wake up if you overcome your fear of the unknown.

The facts tell you what the known is. Realize it.


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## Tilted 1

Marc878 said:


> You need STD testing now you don’t know who or where this other man has been.





Larry12 said:


> I know..what a classic line.
> 
> I'd like to think I know a fair bit of what has happened with the intel I got. She says she bonded with the guy over things she couldn't tell me, mainly due to the relationship between myself and her family.
> 
> I guess i'm still waking up to the reality of being a pawn in her life. I just find it really hard to believe the times we spent together, the adventures, the setting up of a home, the laughs were all a sham.


Larry, cheaters lie lie and lie and the first step for her to to is have empathy she doesn't. She wants to rugsweep this and wait until it cools down to continue this , many of these phrases are taken out of the cheaters handbook.

I must be upfront hand say man wake up here, three years of doing another dude and coming back to you for security. Your nothing but a ATM machine what of those mind movies of her doing all of those acts she does with him she doesn't give you? And if she has given you full menu sex she also given the other the same. 

I would expose the OM and open his world to the crap you been given, let him have that shell of what you once thought you had. Alot of bridges she has burned and now you're the only rescue boat see can grab on too. Expose her to your and her family because she will rewrite your time together and make you out to be the azzhole who screwed up the marriage and relationship. 

Do you really think you want the type of trashy person, and put your mouth we're the other dudes pecker had been? Have some self respect she has none for you you better have some for yourself.


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## syhoybenden

Larry12 said:


> I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it. She has some really great qualities I have not seen in anyone else and life was, on the whole, very fulfilling.
> 
> Nope.
> Sorry.
> This is not who she is.
> This is merely who she wants you to see her as.
> She’s really really good at this “double life” business.
> If you knew who she really was, you would not like her.
> 
> 
> She has been living a double life with her parents from young age but never thought that she would add another life to her already complex situation.


Well surprise surprise!


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## She'sStillGotIt

Larry12 said:


> She told me that the last time she met with the other person, she left and told him that it was done and deleted his number and conversation history.


Well golly. I'm blown away by the sheer coincidence of how it worked out that JUST as you were discovering her misdeeds, SHE just happened to be giving this guy his walking papers at the same exact time. That is SO serendipitous! 



> About halfway through the revelation process and before we got further into the lies, I asked her what she wanted and she did say that she would like to attempt therapy to attempt to save our marriage (3 years). I was originally contemplating this as I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it.


Marriage counseling is the LAST place you bring an active, LYING cheater.

It's a complete waste of your time, money and energy. All she's going to do is LIE to the therapist and LIE to you. Do yourself a favor and take the $150 and go buy yourself something nice with it. Your wife is a *complete *waste of your time and money.



> Totally agree that she is broken.


She's not *broken*. She's simply a moral-less person who has *NO RESPECT* for you or for her marriage, and is actively still involved with her boyfriend and enjoying every minute of it. To imply that she's 'broken' means that she's not able to conduct herself in a normal way and shouldn't be held accountable for her **** behavior because something inside her "broke" and made her do it. Good Lord. That's just something betrayed spouses tell themselves to self-sooth, because they don't want to face who their cheater REALLY is. 

Honestly, it's your business and your life if you want to continue with the delusional thought that this woman is "broken" and just needs some therapist to fix her and she'll be "right as rain again." She's not worth 10 more seconds of your time. When someone show shows you who they *really* are, you need to BELIEVE them. Or you can self delude which is sadly, what you're doing.

One day you'll find out who you're REALLY wasting your time on and maybe then you'll open your eyes. One day.


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## Numb26

Once a cheater, always a cheater. You best option is to leave her. Concentrate on YOURSELF. She will never tell you the truth (cheaters are liars by design) and will only give you trickle truth when it benefits them. Get tested for STDs. Get a lawyer. And plan for you new life. Good luck!


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## Larry12

I'm reading all the comments and taking it all in, I appreciate them all.

A very sad situation that can't be resolved. Frustrating.


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## aquarius1

The key point here is that you are trying to salvage who you "thought" she was. What you "thought" your marriage was.
It's very, very hard to take. But none of it was the truth.
Has she been to counselling? I detect a hint of a sociopath here. Incapable of empathy or understanding.
Or maybe she's just like all the other over ego'd, lying cheaters that we have encountered here on TAM.
I'm sorry that you are here. Give yourself time to grieve a relationship that you never really had. The hurt must be awful.
Then steel yourself, get a lawyer, and file.
Too often we have seen people here who have attempted R only to be back 3,5 or 10 years later with the same issue. Cheaters don't change. They just get better at hiding it, lying about it, and DARVO'ing you on it. (look it up)
Please. She will try to sex bomb you back into the relationship which, oh looky, will result in a pregnancy (maybe not your child)
Then you are stuck. Don't be stuck. Get out now.


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## Tilted 1

Larry12 said:


> I'm reading all the comments and taking it all in, I appreciate them all.
> 
> A very sad situation that can't be resolved. Frustrating.


Yes Larry it can, divorce the lying no good STBX, and move on without the dead weight your dragging around.


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## aquarius1

Look up the thread by Numb26 if you want to learn how to handle cheaters.


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## Larry12

aquarius1 said:


> Look up the thread by Numb26 if you want to learn how to handle cheaters.


Can you point me in the right direction please?


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## Andy1001

Larry12 said:


> I'm reading all the comments and taking it all in, I appreciate them all.
> 
> A very sad situation that can't be resolved. Frustrating.


 @Larry12 you say that you’re reading all the comments and taking it all in. Well I have news for you, you’re not. 
You are looking for some single reason that made her cheat and if you could fix this then the woman who you thought you were marrying would magically reappear and everyone would live happily ever after. 
She cheated because she wanted to. I repeat she cheated because she wanted to. And because she enjoyed it. And because she didn’t think she’d get caught. 
There’s nothing special or different about your wife. She’s just another cheat with no morals who will never be satisfied with what she’s got and will “try out” numerous different ****s until she finally finds what she’s looking for or else decides to stay with Mr Reliable at home. 
You’re not plan B, you aren’t even on the list.


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## Adelais

Larry12 said:


> ... the affair started shortly after our wedding....She has been living a double life with her parents from young age


This woman is not marriage material. Who begins an affair shortly after getting married and continues it for years? A person with deep character flaws. She will not hesitate to engage in behaviors that she knows would devastate you, but it doesn't matter to her.

The fact that she has been also living a double life with her parents since she was a child also tells you that she is not a person who can be trusted with anything.

The best thing you can do is forgive yourself for getting caught up in her deceptions and divorce her. Next time don't marry someone who has been decieving people since childhood. That was a huge red flag that you missed before marrying her.


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## aquarius1

Larry12 said:


> Can you point me in the right direction please?


https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/436045-kind-lost-right-now.html


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## OutofRetirement

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I think you should know what happened before you consider reconciling. I would think that if your wife wanted to save this marriage she would have taken some steps to do so. Wanting to leave your apartment probably isn't one of those steps. I'd think she'd be telling you all about the affair, how long it lasted, and why she wants you and not the affair partner.

She was having an affair for three years, you think. If that is true, don't you think she had a pretty deep connection with him? Would she be able to stop having feelings for him with a week or two? She's had three years to detach from you.

You are basing a lot on this eye contact sparks you think you both shared. I mean, you probably looked her in the eyes quite a bit over the past three years, and apparently you couldn't see she was cheating, so I have some doubts about your skill in determing meaning in eye contact.

I think if you want to reconcile, the first step is to ask her if she would be willing. Then to ask her what she would be willing to do. For example, would she tell you the truth about how long, why, how she felt about you vs. him, etc., and any other questions you have? 

How coincidental that she had just ended the affair the last tiime she met him before you found out. Do you believe that? In other words, I'm trying to measure up your gullibility index.

Start with the fact that she's cheated for her entire marriage. She has a completely different outlook about your marriage than you do. She has not shared with you what her meaning of the marriage means to her. It's OK if you want to reconcile, but what kind of result would you expect? How would it be different going forward? Who is the guy, anyway, and why did she determine that you alone were not enough for her? I get a feeling that she's got a lot of deep issues. Cheating immediately after the wedding is not all that unusual, but broken people is not all that unusual, either. It's not that unusual to begin cheating before the wedding and continue straight through. These people generally have a lot of issues, not the least of which is they are very confused about what they want, values.


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## oldtruck

OutofRetirement said:


> I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I think you should know what happened before you consider reconciling. I would think that if your wife wanted to save this marriage she would have taken some steps to do so. Wanting to leave your apartment probably isn't one of those steps. I'd think she'd be telling you all about the affair, how long it lasted, and why she wants you and not the affair partner.
> 
> She was having an affair for three years, you think. If that is true, don't you think she had a pretty deep connection with him? Would she be able to stop having feelings for him with a week or two? She's had three years to detach from you.
> 
> You are basing a lot on this eye contact sparks you think you both shared. I mean, you probably looked her in the eyes quite a bit over the past three years, and apparently you couldn't see she was cheating, so I have some doubts about your skill in determing meaning in eye contact.
> 
> I think if you want to reconcile, the first step is to ask her if she would be willing. Then to ask her what she would be willing to do. For example, would she tell you the truth about how long, why, how she felt about you vs. him, etc., and any other questions you have?
> 
> How coincidental that she had just ended the affair the last tiime she met him before you found out. Do you believe that? In other words, I'm trying to measure up your gullibility index.
> 
> Start with the fact that she's cheated for her entire marriage. She has a completely different outlook about your marriage than you do. She has not shared with you what her meaning of the marriage means to her. It's OK if you want to reconcile, but what kind of result would you expect? How would it be different going forward? Who is the guy, anyway, and why did she determine that you alone were not enough for her? I get a feeling that she's got a lot of deep issues. Cheating immediately after the wedding is not all that unusual, but broken people is not all that unusual, either. It's not that unusual to begin cheating before the wedding and continue straight through. These people generally have a lot of issues, not the least of which is they are very confused about what they want, values.


you are young, she cheated from beginning of marriage, no kids, almost always best to divorce.

has she told you all?
how do you know that?

this is why a polygraph is needed.

How did WW meet the OM? At work?

Was the affair exposed?

Does the OMW/GF know about the affair?

How do know there is NC between OM and WW?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Larry12 said:


> As posted in the new members forum - Thanks for the welcome. It's amazing to think a community like this exists. Never thought for a second I would need to find you.
> 
> I still can't believe i'm writting this and hope it reads clearly and logically.
> 
> A little over a week ago I discovered that my wife was having an affair. I was able to obtain information about her whereabouts and when I quizzed her about certain events, she told me a different story to what I had found out. I knew she was lying. I had a couple of attempts over a couple of nights to ask her what had happened vs what I knew and there were a lot of lies followed by some version of the truth when I revealed what I knew. It ended when I told her I was done as I couldn't take anymore of her lying and we were beyond help. She told me that the last time she met with the other person, she left and told him that it was done and deleted his number and conversation history.
> 
> About halfway through the revelation process and before we got further into the lies, I asked her what she wanted and she did say that she would like to attempt therapy to attempt to save our marriage (3 years). I was originally contemplating this as I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it. She has some really great qualities I have not seen in anyone else and life was, on the whole, very fulfilling. I hate giving up on things especially if I consider doing this to the woman I love (although i'm not sure who that person is now). We have been together for around 10 years in total. From what I can tell the affair started shortly after our wedding. We have no kids but we bought an apartment together 5 years ago (50/50). She has been living a double life with her parents from young age but never thought that she would add another life to her already complex situation. The ordeal ended with us both numb and frustratingly I felt that she lacked empathy and compassion I needed.
> 
> Without realising it, ever since I said it was over, I have implemented a lot of the steps in the 180 affair recovery. I have had a few messages with her to discuss sleeping arrangements, to discuss a bill and to ask whether I still want to go to therapy to which I responded that I think so. I'm not sure if she believes this will be so that I can get closure or to work on us. I didn't want to say too much. I did see her about a week ago as she was getting a few things. We had a long stare into each to each others eyes and I felt the sparks again. I'm convinced she did as well.
> 
> We have arranged to meet in a couple of days but i'm not sure what to say or how to progress the situation. I understood that she was going to look for somewhere else to stay but i'm not sure how far that has progressed. I'm not even sure if she would be prepared to work at the marriage and would rather be by herself for a while in which case I wouldn't have a decision to make. Last week I was convinced there was no way back but after speaking to some friends and reading up online, we wouldn't be the first to get through this type of thing. Then there's the apartment to sort out. Fair to say i'm pretty confused how to play this.


............shortly after the wedding.............. 10 years...............

Sounds like a former friend of mine who was a therapist. Married her 10 year lover and cheated with a mutual friend within a year........

Her husband said nope and moved on.

All I’ll say is she lied until you trapped her....... 

I loved my former fiancée, we were 5 years in and a wedding on the way. I caught her coming home from a movie twice and that was enough. Found someone much better..


Get out..... therapy is not going to fix anything with her. 


Yes, I am implying she’ll do it again.


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## alte Dame

I think you only get one life. Why live that one life hobbling along, tied to someone you can't trust?

You have no children. You have many years ahead of you. You have an entire world filled with potentially better women for you.

Why not cut your losses now? Your WW is a liar. That's the long and short of it. She can look you in the eye and lie to you, day after day, year after year.

I'm an older woman and you can take this to the bank: You will regret not giving yourself your best chance of a fulfilling life with someone who has integrity and honors you.

She detached from you and made you the wallpaper in her life. You were just there.

That's not a marriage. I would rather be single than have a spouse who treats me like that.

ETA: Others have mentioned that your WW is a classic cheater, reading from the cheater's script. Part of that is asserting that the other man was someone she could confide in about problems in the marriage. So typical. She's just like all the rest.


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## Wolfman1968

Larry12 said:


> I'm reading all the comments and taking it all in, I appreciate them all.
> 
> A very sad situation that can't be resolved. Frustrating.


Larry, think of it like you'd analyze any other situation. "What is the cost/benefit and what is the chance of success?". Let's look at this together.

First of all, let's make sure we are at the same starting point with our analysis. 
a. She has been cheating on you essentially your entire marriage, 3 years. That tells you the kind of person she's ALWAYS been. If you're goal is to get back the woman you married, you will get back a cheater, because that's what she was at the time you married her. 
b. If your goal is to get back the relationship you had when you first married her, that means you will get back to a relationship in which her feelings for you and her respect for you and her passion for you was so low, that she preferred to have another man for her sexual partner. So, if you get back to what you first had, you will get back to a relationship where you rank below other men, because that's how your marriage started. 
c. Throughout your marriage, she had multiple opportunities to break off her affair, and she did not. That means she is capable of lying to you, deceiving you, and disrespected you. That means her affair for 3 years has been more important than her faithfulness and affection to you, because she continued her affair at the expense of your marriage. 

The above starting points are just facts from the mere existence of her affair, that fact that it started immediately upon marriage, and that fact that she continued it for so long. I don't see how anyone can deny these.

OK, so let's do the cost/benefit analysis. 
a. cost/benefit of divorce:
There's no kids involved, so that isn't a cost we need to consider. I see the issues of the financial disentaglement from her (your apartment, etc.). I'm not sure what your potential liability for alimony would be--that depends on your relative incomes and your particular state of residence. In some states infidelity would negate alimony obligations. However, with a 3 year marriage, in virtually all states, the alimony, if any, would be expected to be short. There is the emotional toll of a divorce, and the fear of the unknown. 
The benefits of divorce would be that you would be freed from someone with horrible attributes listed in the "starting point" of the discussion above. From the start of your marriage, her love for you must have been very low, and she has personal defects of selfishness, deceit and unfaithfulness. So, with a divorce you would be freed from that. You would also have the opportunity to find a BETTER spouse. In essence, the "average" woman would statistically be better than your wife. Your wife has shown to be a big negative to you, who has hurt you and disrespected you. It's possible the next woman in your life could be just as bad, but also she could be better. It's like having a very weak hand in poker. If you were to get a re-deal, you may or may not get a better hand, but you know for sure the one you are holding is a loser.

So, it looks like the costs of divorce are manageable, and the potential benefits are good.

b. costs/benefits of staying married to her:
The cost is that you are married to someone who is unfaithful, dishonest and prefers other men to you as sexual partners. Another cost is that if you tie yourself further with her (financially, having children), it will be harder and more painful to end it in the future. Also, staying married to her will, based on the experience of other posters, be a source of insecurity to you. You will always wonder if she really preferred the other guy and settled for you because she couldn't get him. You will wonder if she really preferred him as a sexual partner. You will be insecure as to whether she will cheat again, and you may become hypervigilant and suspicious for the rest of your relationship. She may actually cheat again (since she has shown she is capable of it), and may drop you like a piece of garbage if she can land a "better" guy. Even if you reconcile you will wonder if she was "sorry she cheated or only sorry she got caught."
The benefit of staying married to her is---hmm... Well, it requires less effort, emotionally, legally and financially, than does taking a stand and getting a divorce. Also, if by some miracle she somehow changes and becomes a totally different person than she has ever been in your marriage, and develops love and affection for you that she has never had since the start of your marriage, and develops a personality of honesty and faithfulness that she has never had at any point in your marriage so far, then you may have a happy relationship some time in the future. 

So, it looks like the costs of staying married to her are high, and the benefits are limited. 

From my standpoint, the cost/beneft analysis favors divorce. It seems your only hope at happiness is if she becomes someone who she has never been before in your marriage, with personality characteristics she has never had, and develops love and devotion for you which she has never had. But, for the vast majority of humanity, it is impossible to become someone that they have never been. It can happen, but the odds are vanishingly small. It's easier to go BACK to be a person you used to be, but by the time of adulthood, basic personality traits are pretty much fixed, and it is much harder to develop characteristics you NEVER had. So, it looks like your chance of success is vanishingly small. 

I think if you really think about it, you will come to the same conclusion. This is not a drunken one-night stand which is totally out of character, or someone who was passionately in love with their spouse at one time but has lost their way with a midlife crisis. This is someone who was cheating and disrespecting you and preferring another man from day 1 in your marriage. That makes a true reconciliation and a happy relationship together essentially impossible in my book.


----------



## [email protected]

Hi Larry 12. There are a lot of good comments here and it looks like you are taking them seriously. Yet, from what you describe about your WW, I'd recommend D. I don't think she's wroth saving.


----------



## Spicy

Can you elaborate a bit about her double life in regard to her parents?


----------



## MattMatt

@Larry12 you will be questioning if your wife ever loved you.

Some people here will say "of course she didn't!" They are probably wrong.

I argue that your wife does love you, but not enough to remain faithful to you.

Does she love her family? Probably. But she lived a double life with them, so perhaps deceptive behaviour is her default position?

Incidentally what double life did she lead with her family? 

Is this her only affair?


----------



## Diana7

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well golly. I'm blown away by the sheer coincidence of how it worked out that JUST as you were discovering her misdeeds, SHE just happened to be giving this guy his walking papers at the same exact time. That is SO serendipitous!
> 
> Marriage counseling is the LAST place you bring an active, LYING cheater.
> 
> It's a complete waste of your time, money and energy. All she's going to do is LIE to the therapist and LIE to you. Do yourself a favor and take the $150 and go buy yourself something nice with it. Your wife is a *complete *waste of your time and money.
> 
> She's not *broken*. She's simply a moral-less person who has *NO RESPECT* for you or for her marriage, and is actively still involved with her boyfriend and enjoying every minute of it. To imply that she's 'broken' means that she's not able to conduct herself in a normal way and shouldn't be held accountable for her **** behavior because something inside her "broke" and made her do it. Good Lord. That's just something betrayed spouses tell themselves to self-sooth, because they don't want to face who their cheater REALLY is.
> 
> Honestly, it's your business and your life if you want to continue with the delusional thought that this woman is "broken" and just needs some therapist to fix her and she'll be "right as rain again." She's not worth 10 more seconds of your time. When someone show shows you who they *really* are, you need to BELIEVE them. Or you can self delude which is sadly, what you're doing.
> 
> One day you'll find out who you're REALLY wasting your time on and maybe then you'll open your eyes. One day.


Absolutely agree with this. Cheaters don't cheat because they are broken, they cheat because they have no integrity, no moral values, no character and no sense of faithfulness. Of course she wasn't just about to break up with him after three years, what lies. 
She has cheated for the whole of your marriage, what more proof do you need that she will never be faithful. She couldn't even wait a few years.:surprise:

She cheats, she lies and she deceives, that's who she is. Is this who you want to be married to? The chances of her not cheating again are practically nil.


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## Gabriel

You've only been married 3 years, and have no kids.

Decision is easy - divorce and don't even think about it.

You say she had some "double life" with her family? Not sure what that means but it tells me she is very adept and accustomed to hiding things from people close to her. It's become part of her ethos. Now it's your turn to see it used against you.

She'll just keep doing that.

Cut bait now before you have more of your life invested in a person who lies every day.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Wolfman1968 said:


> Larry, think of it like you'd analyze any other situation. "What is the cost/benefit and what is the chance of success?". Let's look at this together.
> 
> First of all, let's make sure we are at the same starting point with our analysis.
> a. She has been cheating on you essentially your entire marriage, 3 years. That tells you the kind of person she's ALWAYS been. If you're goal is to get back the woman you married, you will get back a cheater, because that's what she was at the time you married her.
> b. If your goal is to get back the relationship you had when you first married her, that means you will get back to a relationship in which her feelings for you and her respect for you and her passion for you was so low, that she preferred to have another man for her sexual partner. So, if you get back to what you first had, you will get back to a relationship where you rank below other men, because that's how your marriage started.
> c. Throughout your marriage, she had multiple opportunities to break off her affair, and she did not. That means she is capable of lying to you, deceiving you, and disrespected you. That means her affair for 3 years has been more important than her faithfulness and affection to you, because she continued her affair at the expense of your marriage.
> 
> The above starting points are just facts from the mere existence of her affair, that fact that it started immediately upon marriage, and that fact that she continued it for so long. I don't see how anyone can deny these.
> 
> OK, so let's do the cost/benefit analysis.
> a. cost/benefit of divorce:
> There's no kids involved, so that isn't a cost we need to consider. I see the issues of the financial disentaglement from her (your apartment, etc.). I'm not sure what your potential liability for alimony would be--that depends on your relative incomes and your particular state of residence. In some states infidelity would negate alimony obligations. However, with a 3 year marriage, in virtually all states, the alimony, if any, would be expected to be short. There is the emotional toll of a divorce, and the fear of the unknown.
> The benefits of divorce would be that you would be freed from someone with horrible attributes listed in the "starting point" of the discussion above. From the start of your marriage, her love for you must have been very low, and she has personal defects of selfishness, deceit and unfaithfulness. So, with a divorce you would be freed from that. You would also have the opportunity to find a BETTER spouse. In essence, the "average" woman would statistically be better than your wife. Your wife has shown to be a big negative to you, who has hurt you and disrespected you. It's possible the next woman in your life could be just as bad, but also she could be better. It's like having a very weak hand in poker. If you were to get a re-deal, you may or may not get a better hand, but you know for sure the one you are holding is a loser.
> 
> So, it looks like the costs of divorce are manageable, and the potential benefits are good.
> 
> b. costs/benefits of staying married to her:
> The cost is that you are married to someone who is unfaithful, dishonest and prefers other men to you as sexual partners. Another cost is that if you tie yourself further with her (financially, having children), it will be harder and more painful to end it in the future. Also, staying married to her will, based on the experience of other posters, be a source of insecurity to you. You will always wonder if she really preferred the other guy and settled for you because she couldn't get him. You will wonder if she really preferred him as a sexual partner. You will be insecure as to whether she will cheat again, and you may become hypervigilant and suspicious for the rest of your relationship. She may actually cheat again (since she has shown she is capable of it), and may drop you like a piece of garbage if she can land a "better" guy. Even if you reconcile you will wonder if she was "sorry she cheated or only sorry she got caught."
> The benefit of staying married to her is---hmm... Well, it requires less effort, emotionally, legally and financially, than does taking a stand and getting a divorce. Also, if by some miracle she somehow changes and becomes a totally different person than she has ever been in your marriage, and develops love and affection for you that she has never had since the start of your marriage, and develops a personality of honesty and faithfulness that she has never had at any point in your marriage so far, then you may have a happy relationship some time in the future.
> 
> So, it looks like the costs of staying married to her are high, and the benefits are limited.
> 
> From my standpoint, the cost/beneft analysis favors divorce. It seems your only hope at happiness is if she becomes someone who she has never been before in your marriage, with personality characteristics she has never had, and develops love and devotion for you which she has never had. But, for the vast majority of humanity, it is impossible to become someone that they have never been. It can happen, but the odds are vanishingly small. It's easier to go BACK to be a person you used to be, but by the time of adulthood, basic personality traits are pretty much fixed, and it is much harder to develop characteristics you NEVER had. So, it looks like your chance of success is vanishingly small.
> 
> I think if you really think about it, you will come to the same conclusion. This is not a drunken one-night stand which is totally out of character, or someone who was passionately in love with their spouse at one time but has lost their way with a midlife crisis. This is someone who was cheating and disrespecting you and preferring another man from day 1 in your marriage. That makes a true reconciliation and a happy relationship together essentially impossible in my book.


Well said sir. Larry, there is nothing to salvage. Your best option is to cut her loose. You deserve better. Get you a good attorney and serve her, and get the ball rolling.


----------



## Wolfman1968

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Well said sir. Larry, there is nothing to salvage. Your best option is to cut her loose. You deserve better. Get you a good attorney and serve her, and get the ball rolling.



And Larry, you might note that @No Longer Lonely Husband is a man who has SUCCESSFULLY reconciled with his Formerly Wayward Wife. He was able to come back from a betrayal, so he is not a knee-jerk, reflexive, "you've got to divorce" kind of guy. He stuck it out for reconciliation in his marriage with no regrets, as far as I can see. Yet, even a guy who has opted for reconciliation in his own marriage sees no hope in your situation. That says something, I think. 

It's like having an expert physician, world renown for never giving up and pulling off miraculous cures of patients despite all odds, come up to you and say, "It's time to pull the plug on Grandma".


----------



## Chaparral

The only odd thing I see here is no one has asked you who the other man is and what are the details you know? The reason for that is no one is considered telling you how to break up their affair. Is he married? If so you have to tell his wife. 

Why does your wife tell you she did this? The reason she gave you so far is BS. 

Is the only reason she wants to save the marriage is because he only wants her for his mistress?

So sorry your here and the counsel you have gotten is so harsh. The fact is, even reading thousands of threads here, yours ranks up there as one of the worst betrayals I have seen. 

One more question. Why do you think this is her first affair or that she has ended it?


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## 3Xnocharm

Dude, NO WOMAN is worth wasting any more time on after this magnitude of betrayal. Run for the nearest exit and dont look back.


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## Tron

I am hopping on the bandwagon. 

There really isn't much tying you to this woman. No kids, short marriage, and that little detail where she was f'ing another dude the whole time you were married. I guess it is safe to say you weren't aware that you were in an open marriage...but you were.

Cut her loose. 

There are better women out there to waste your time on.


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## Numb26

Tron said:


> I am hopping on the bandwagon.
> 
> There really isn't much tying you to this woman. No kids, short marriage, and that little detail where she was f'ing another dude the whole time you were married. I guess it is safe to say you weren't aware that you were in an open marriage...but you were.
> 
> Cut her loose.
> 
> There are better women out there to waste your time on.


Coming from someone who was/is in your shoes, Tron is correct. You have no ties to your WW and very little time invested. Do right by yourself and leave. Hit the gym, take some classes, enjoy a hobby.....concentrate on YOURSELF and you will be amazed at how soon you will have a new outlook on life. Take it from a fellow survivor.


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## Young at Heart

Dear Larry 12;

I recommend you look at Wolfman's cost/benefit post. I also recommend you sit down with yourself and really ask what you hope marriage counseling would accomplish.

One thing that most have not said is that marriage counseling can be used to help implement a structured and negotiated separation agreement. That life experience will tell both of you if you want divorce. She probably also needs individual counseling to figure out why she did what she did and ruined her marriage nearly from the start of it and what changes she should and can make in her life.

If you marriage with her is to succeed, almost all of the heavy lifting will be on your WW's part as she is the one that has to rebuild trust in the marriage. If she is not 110% into rebuilding the marriage, you are better off ending it. I think your chances of success are low, but you get to make that decision and you get to involve her, if you like, in the decision. If you do decide on reconciliation you need to establish some absolute behavioral boundaries as to what she can not do. A marriage counselor can help with that as well.

Good luck.

Figure out some ways to heal your heart that she has broken. I am sorry you are facing this.


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## re16

You are so lucky you didn't have kids.

If you had, you'd be doing paternity test right now.

You've dodge a massive bullet.

There are billions of women in the world, why would stay with the one and only who did this to you.

She has probably done this quite a bit with others during your many years together.

Everything she has said so far is a lie to cover only what you know. It is way worse than you know.


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## Kamstel

She has been with her lover/boyfriend since shortly after you married her!!!!

If this wasn’t a dealbreaker for you, what would be???? What would she have to do for you to say that THIS would be too much for you to accept ????

I’m so very sorry for you!
Good luck and stay strong!

I know that this is Hell, but I do promise that it does get better, MUCH better. Don’t let fear of the unknown stop you from doing what is best for you.


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## sunsetmist

Perhaps she is one of those folks who chases what she thinks she wants, but once she catches it/him, she goes fishing for another thrill. At any rate her lack of integrity is a dangerous thing when talking about relationships. She must have a special sparkle that draws men to her. She must also have the ability to live with and enjoy deception. 

She is deceptive to those who truly love her--think what that is like to both parties. A lack of trust casts a yawning void into any relationship.


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## shortbus

You've gotten a ton of good advice, I'd use it.

I know you're currently heartbroken, as well you should be, but you need to realize one very important fact.

YOU HAVE NO KIDS!!! GET OUT NOW!!! YOU'VE NOT DODGED A BULLET, YOU'VE DODGED AN RPG!!!


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## syhoybenden

Just newlywed and she starts banging another guy.

YOU were supposed to have the honeymoon times with her.

Apparently not though.

Someone else had it.



Would you wipe your nose with someone else's used kleenex?


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## Kamstel

Here is Numb26’s original thread that you asked about 

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/#/topics/436045


You might also want to check out this thread. It has a bunch of links to others that, for the most part, got out of Hell quickly 

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/#/topics/371010


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## Robert22205

Google PTSD and study the symptoms. Betrayal like this is a major major trauma and your emotions will rise and fall (and unexpectantly recur) for a very long time. See your doctor and tell them what you told us (they can help). 

Also seek IC (not just to help process this trauma but for future relationships).

Read up on the 180 ... it's designed to give you space emotionally so you can make a reasoned decision. Take whatever time you need from weeks to months. Our initial biological defense mechanism to trauma is to lessen the pain by rugs sweeping (minimizing the betrayal and to pretend it wasn't so bad). However, your reality is that your marriage never existed and you never really knew the girl you married. 

In the interim, insist on a timeline subject to a polygraph test (to save time and discourage more lying). Cheaters always minimize and withhold details. IMO it's highly probable that the affair started prior to you marrying her.

IF the OM is married, notify his wife (without warning yours).


----------



## Larry12

An update guys, Thanks again for all the posts. I've had a couple of good days and some really bad ones. Today I feel angry more than anything. 

When I was uncovering her lies a couple of weeks ago now, she had a date in the diary for today, to spend with him. She told me back then that they were thinking of doing another day trip but said she didn't think it was going ahead based on what had just happened. Fast forward to today and without any hard evidence, i'm 95% sure she's with him.

For me that's the final straw. I actually saw her on Sunday and told her to get some IC before we do MC which she agreed to. She told me she would be out the flat by the end of Feb. To be honest, it was very amicable and adult and there were even a few jokes. I didn't want her to see any of the hurt, sadness and anger i'm feeling. I asked her if there was anything left to salvage and told her I wasn't sure there was. She didn't respond which I can only assume means NO. What I find so chilling is her lack of remorse, empathy, compassion. Nothing. If only let she could feel the pain and shock I'm in.

I have started IC myself and have another appointment set up for next week. In the meantime i'm going away for a few days and I don't think i'm going to tell her. I ideally want to go cold turkey now. Ideally I don't want to see her again but I know that's tricky given the living situation. I need to take control. I have been to see a solicitor and have booked myself for next week to get the process formally started. I'm currently trying to work out an uncomfortable way in which she could receive the papers.

I've still not told the wife of the AP. From what I know, they have 2 children and were in the process of 'separating'. I find this hard to believe as surely this would have happened by now if they were. Also, when I asked my soon to be ex wife if the other woman knew (on DD), she got very defensive and told me it wasn't my place to tell her. 

People around me are advising not to. I sort of feel like I should at least get my own **** sorted first and be as amicable as possible so that I come away with the best possible divorce agreement. And then potentially expose the affair. 

How can she be so heartless?! Her double life with her family is due to religion.


----------



## Diana7

I suspect he has told your wife that he is 'just separating' but is probably lying. Please make sure his wife knows poor woman. 
I have no idea why you are even thinking about MC, she clearly has no intention of ever being faithful so what is the point? How could you ever trust her again? You really have no marriage. Is she the sort of woman you want bringing up your future children???A home wrecker??? A women who has no qualms about taking a man away from his own children???


----------



## Larry12

Diana7 said:


> I suspect he has told your wife that he is 'just separating' but is probably lying. Please make sure his wife knows poor woman.
> I have no idea why you are even thinking about MC, she clearly has no intention of ever being faithful so what is the point? How could you ever trust her again? You really have no marriage. Is she the sort of woman you want bringing up your future children???A home wrecker??? A women who has no qualms about taking a man away from his own children???


Apologies Diana, no, for me we're now beyond MC.


----------



## anchorwatch

Larry12 said:


> How can she be so heartless?! Her double life with her family is due to religion.


That's a simple answer... She is selfish and you didn't see that in her. 

It hurts to admit it, but you feel played. It's not your fault she hid it from you. 

Recognize who she really is, not who you thought her to be. 

You deserve better... we all deserve better


Best


----------



## Larry12

anchorwatch said:


> That's a simple answer... *She is selfish *and you didn't see that in her.
> 
> It hurts to admit it, but you feel played. It's not your fault she hid it from you.
> 
> Recognize who she really is, not who you thought her to be.
> 
> You deserve better... we all deserve better
> 
> 
> Best



The ironic thing is, I used to tell her to be more selfish as she was often putting other people first (or so I felt)


----------



## Numb26

Larry12 said:


> The ironic thing is, I used to tell her to be more selfish as she was often putting other people first (or so I felt)


My STBXW also has shown no remorse for her A. And the only regret she has shown has been the fact that she got caught. Some people are very good at putting up a false front, to get you to believe they are a good person. Once that front comes down and you see the real person it can be devastating. 

My suggestion would be to concentrate on yourself. Do what needs to be done to insure YOUR survival! Financially, emotionally and physically. 

I know it's hard to believe but this will pass. It did for me, sooner then I thought it would. There is a light at the end of the tunnel!

First thing is first, get the paperwork started and then move. If you ever need to vent, we are here for you.


----------



## Larry12

Numb26 said:


> My STBXW also has shown no remorse for her A. And the only regret she has shown has been the fact that she got caught. Some people are very good at putting up a false front, to get you to believe they are a good person. Once that front comes down and you see the real person it can be devastating.
> 
> My suggestion would be to concentrate on yourself. Do what needs to be done to insure YOUR survival! Financially, emotionally and physically.
> 
> I know it's hard to believe but this will pass. It did for me, sooner then I thought it would. There is a light at the end of the tunnel!
> 
> First thing is first, get the paperwork started and then move. If you ever need to vent, we are here for you.


Thank you. I'm really pleased these communities exist, faith in humanity


----------



## Diana7

Larry12 said:


> Apologies Diana, no, for me we're now beyond MC.


Wise decision Larry. I am always sad to see marriages ending but sometimes there really is no alternative. :frown2:


----------



## Tilted 1

Larry, is epose her to all dispite what advice you been given where your at , it's only been three years and regardless she isn't going to get move coming out of divorce if you told no one hell tell the world about that lying, cheating, ****e of a wife she was! 

And don't listen to your cheat'n wife expose to the other betrayed wife. She deserves to know like you did.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

It absolutely IS your place to inform the other betrayed spouse! And as you are planning to do so, make sure your STBXW doesnt know a thing about it.


----------



## Robert22205

Treat your wife as an adversary. Be civil and business like but do not trust her or expect any compassion. 

Your wife lived a lie every day for at least 3 years. It's safe to say that you never really knew her. Among other things, in order to cheat, she is: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacks empathy for you. When someone shows you who they are - believe them.

Don't believe that the OM is separating or divorcing. With two kids .... not likely. And the last person you can believe is a person that lied to you every day for 3 years.

See your attorney. Get a separation agreement (with divorce terms) agreed to and signed asap. It's best to get her agreement while her head is in the 'fog' and she just wants out.

After she agrees to the divorce terms, then IMO you should notify the OBS. 

Why? because every human being has a right to know what their reality is. The OBS is living in a false world and being abused by her husband. 

The sooner she finds out she married a cheater the better for her. Perhaps she's suspicious and thinking she's going crazy because her husband is distant (and they fight over nothing) but he "would never cheat". 

Further, perhaps they have a prenup that would penalize him for adultery. Some states consider adultery in setting spouse support and child visitation rights (for example, your wife would be specifically prohibited from staying overnight when he has the kids). 

Don't assume this is the OM's first affair. He's exposing his wife to life threatening disease.


----------



## oldtruck

Larry12 said:


> An update guys, Thanks again for all the posts. I've had a couple of good days and some really bad ones. Today I feel angry more than anything.
> 
> When I was uncovering her lies a couple of weeks ago now, she had a date in the diary for today, to spend with him. She told me back then that they were thinking of doing another day trip but said she didn't think it was going ahead based on what had just happened. Fast forward to today and without any hard evidence, i'm 95% sure she's with him.
> 
> For me that's the final straw. I actually saw her on Sunday and told her to get some IC before we do MC which she agreed to. She told me she would be out the flat by the end of Feb. To be honest, it was very amicable and adult and there were even a few jokes. I didn't want her to see any of the hurt, sadness and anger i'm feeling. I asked her if there was anything left to salvage and told her I wasn't sure there was. She didn't respond which I can only assume means NO. What I find so chilling is her lack of remorse, empathy, compassion. Nothing. If only let she could feel the pain and shock I'm in.
> 
> I have started IC myself and have another appointment set up for next week. In the meantime i'm going away for a few days and I don't think i'm going to tell her. I ideally want to go cold turkey now. Ideally I don't want to see her again but I know that's tricky given the living situation. I need to take control. I have been to see a solicitor and have booked myself for next week to get the process formally started. I'm currently trying to work out an uncomfortable way in which she could receive the papers.
> 
> I've still not told the wife of the AP. From what I know, they have 2 children and were in the process of 'separating'. I find this hard to believe as surely this would have happened by now if they were. Also, when I asked my soon to be ex wife if the other woman knew (on DD), she got very defensive and told me it wasn't my place to tell her.
> 
> People around me are advising not to. I sort of feel like I should at least get my own **** sorted first and be as amicable as possible so that I come away with the best possible divorce agreement. And then potentially expose the affair.
> 
> How can she be so heartless?! Her double life with her family is due to religion.


if you had exposed the affair to the OMW there would not of have been a date with the
OM that day.

also you should of asked your WW out on a date that day. you would have forced her hand
to admit whether WW went NC with the OM


----------



## Larry12

oldtruck said:


> *if you had exposed the affair to the OMW *there would not of have been a date with the
> OM that day.
> 
> also you should of asked your WW out on a date that day. you would have forced her hand
> to admit whether WW went NC with the OM



Appreciate that but I need to be selfish and ensure I get the best outcome for me now. I believe that means not doing anything to piss my WW off to get the best possible settlement. After which I will expose it (should I be able to get the OMW's details (fingers crossed))


----------



## Tilted 1

Larry12 said:


> Appreciate that but I need to be selfish and ensure I get the best outcome for me now. I believe that means not doing anything to piss my WW off to get the best possible settlement. After which I will expose it (should I be able to get the OMW's details (fingers crossed))


Sorry Larry, your being weak here, she's gonna get only what she can get. Your here for help listen to it and act accordingly nothing is going to allow this this to come out better she's in LOVE what don't you understand about that?


----------



## Gabriel

Please steel yourself for the possibility your STBX gets dumped by her AP and comes crawling back to you with tears and apologies. This may happen has the AP gets more pressure from her to divorce his wife.

If that happens, you need to do the complete 180 and be cold. Do not even entertain taking her back if she does this, because it will only be because you are Plan B.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Being “nice” during a divorce seldom works. She will take full advantage of your “niceness” and exploit it for her gain. You were a doormat during your marriage, don’t be one during your divorce.


----------



## BluesPower

RebuildingMe said:


> Being “nice” during a divorce seldom works. She will take full advantage of your “niceness” and exploit it for her gain. You were a doormat during your marriage, don’t be one during your divorce.


This is the gospel truth right here. 

What did you being a "Nice guy" get you. What has it gotten you your entire life. 

You really, really need to wake up to reality...


----------



## Marc878

Read up. It’s free and short
https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/mode/2up


----------



## Robert22205

I agree with your strategy to protect yourself. Talk to an attorney. Get her to sign a settlement agreement asap (i.e., tomorrow) while she's in 'love' (and before the OM dumps her) - then go nuclear.


----------



## alte Dame

She is oblivious to your pain because 1) you have gone out of your way to hide it from her, and 2) cheaters don't see the betrayeds as three-dimensional people with feelings. You have to stop being hurt that she is a typical cheater and really dig in on protecting yourself.

There is tremendous cognitive dissonance around telling the OMW. The reflexive reaction of people who haven't been cheated on is to stay out of it. The impulse from betrayeds is to urge you to tell. If you ask someone who hasn't been cheated on if he/she would want to know if he/she were being betrayed, however, the vast majority would say 'yes.'

These are my guidelines:

- If you are not set on D, then tell the OM's BW. This has a high likelihood of breaking up the A.
- If you are set on D, wait until the papers are signed and then inform the OM's BW. This can help you get your best deal in the D.
- If you are too concerned about telling the BW personally, find a way to send the info anonymously. (You'd be surprised how often people find out this way.)

Best of luck going forward. Just because an experience is common, doesn't mean it isn't incredibly painful. We all understand.


----------



## Marc878

No contact is your friend and best path.


----------



## Cynthia

Larry12 said:


> Appreciate that but I need to be selfish and ensure I get the best outcome for me now. I believe that means not doing anything to piss my WW off to get the best possible settlement. After which I will expose it (should I be able to get the OMW's details (fingers crossed))


How could telling the OM's wife have anything to do with your divorce settlement? 
She needs to know as soon as possible. Maybe have one of your friends tell her. Or one of your wife's friends who have turned away from her could tell the OW. There are numerous possibilities, but she needs to know.


----------



## Amplifi

I'm so sorry for your pain. This is one of the worst kinds of emotional pain there is, and with it comes physical and mental pain as well. Take good care of yourself.


----------



## Amplifi

Cynthia said:


> How could telling the OM's wife have anything to do with your divorce settlement?
> She needs to know as soon as possible. Maybe have one of your friends tell her. Or one of your wife's friends who have turned away from her could tell the OW. There are numerous possibilities, but she needs to know.


Agreed. When pondering that question, I always ask myself, would I have wanted someone to tell me? Yes.


----------



## Adelais

Amplifi said:


> Agreed. When pondering that question, I always ask myself, would I have wanted someone to tell me? Yes.


And as soon as possible, to not continue living the lie.


----------



## *Deidre*

What would life be like right now, if you hadn't found out she was lying? She'd still be cheating. 

Of course, once you find out and threaten to leave - she tells you it's over, or it was going to be over. You should read a few stories on this site, they sound exactly like yours, posted by other betrayed spouses. The husband or wife begging for counseling, and to ''work'' on the marriage. But, just the week prior, they were having sex with someone else.

Scrolled back and see you're getting a divorce, Larry. I'm sorry you found yourself here, but...very happy for you, that you are looking after yourself and not going to put up with anymore lies.


----------



## re16

If you tell OMW and OM then dumps your wife, she will do everything in her power to keep you, including a fair settlement for a chance to rebuild after.

If OMW dumps OM, then OM and your wife are happy together and you get a good settlement.

It is a win win.

Either way, tell OMW, now. Do it anonymously if you have to.

Stop allowing her to trample on your life. Do something about this.


----------



## Larry12

I have just got the details of AP wife. Easiler than I predicted. From what I can tell they're still together. No hard evidence on that but a couple of things not adding up if they were separated. I've got an address, company info, even a telephone number. How do I tell her?


----------



## Numb26

Larry12 said:


> I have just got the details of AP wife. Easiler than I predicted. From what I can tell they're still together. No hard evidence on that but a couple of things not adding up if they were separated. I've got an address, company info, even a telephone number. How do I tell her?


I found just being straight forward works best. She may get angry at first, maybe even hang up on you but she needs to know. You would want someone to tell you


----------



## Tilted 1

Yup, tell her your the betrayed one also and tell her out right if she as for proof give her what you got.


----------



## Tilted 1

And be prepared for the crock tears and empty promise's from her on her faithfulness and expect that she will start to blame you for her Cheating and will want to return to you with her open arms don't fall for that load of...... Just brace yourself for things you never seen before.


----------



## Numb26

Tilted 1 said:


> And be prepared for the crock tears and empty promise's from her on her faithfulness and expect that she will start to blame you for her Cheating and will want to return to you with her open arms don't fall for that load of...... Just brace yourself for things you never seen before.


Now is the time for you to be strong and not fall for what her reaction will be. Remember, she got caught. Now she will do damage control to win you back


----------



## Larry12

There is no way back from here


----------



## Larry12

I was thinking maybe meet up in person..on the quiet. Ask if they are still married. If she says yes the break it to her gently. If they're seperating...ask if she knows it's been going on.


----------



## aine

Larry12 said:


> I have just got the details of AP wife. Easiler than I predicted. From what I can tell they're still together. No hard evidence on that but a couple of things not adding up if they were separated. I've got an address, company info, even a telephone number. How do I tell her?


Is the phone number her office number or private number. Call her and ask her for her private email and send her whatever you have, say I thought you ought to know this.


----------



## aine

Larry12 said:


> Appreciate that but I need to be selfish and ensure I get the best outcome for me now. I believe that means not doing anything to piss my WW off to get the best possible settlement. After which I will expose it (should I be able to get the OMW's details (fingers crossed))


Larry, action is needed.
YOu have not been married long enough for her to get a great settlement. Get a good bull dog lawyer who will drag her through the dirt.
Do all your family and friends know? EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE
Do you live in a no fault state? 
You have an obligation to tell the OM's wife, you don't have to tell your wife it is coming from you. You owe nothing to your wife except to get rid of her.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Find out from an attorney, but it's unlikely that she'll walk away with a significant chunk of your assets after a 3-year marriage. Spousal support should be very limited as well. 

So there's no compelling reason to keep things amicable. You should definitely tell his wife, and her family.


----------



## Larry12

I guess the only reason I can see to not tell the APW straight away is so that my STBX agrees to 50% sale of the apartment to me and doesn't make me sell it


----------



## alte Dame

An apartment shouldn't be the reason that you don't do the right thing, one human being to another. It really shouldn't.

Call the OM's BW at work. Tell her that her WH has been having an affair with your WW for the last three years. Tell her that you have proof if she wants to see it.

Then just wait for her reaction. You don't know what that will be, so suspend any expectations. Some WS's have it all set up for their BS's to believe that someone like you is just a crazy, jealous H. Try not to be surprised by her reaction. Just check this off your list of 'things I have to do in life to be an honorable person.' Don't listen to your WW's *****ing about it after the fact. She's a lying liar who lies, so why listen to her scoldings on what is right and what isn't?


----------



## willistrong

About halfway through the revelation process and before we got further into the lies, I asked her what she wanted and she did say that she would like to attempt therapy to attempt to save our marriage (3 years). I was originally contemplating this as I guess like a lot people in a similar situation, felt that she was worth it. She has some really great qualities I have not seen in anyone else and life was, on the whole, very fulfilling. I hate giving up on things especially if I consider doing this to the woman I love (although i'm not sure who that person is now)


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## Larry12

Everytime fall asleep I'm dreaming about her and different scenarios. This sucks. I hope it gets easier.


----------



## Buffer

Larry12 said:


> I guess the only reason I can see to not tell the APW straight away is so that my STBX agrees to 50% sale of the apartment to me and doesn't make me sell it


Brother, how are you doing now?
May I ask a few questions? I must have missed some.
Has WW agreed to D? 
Did you get independent legal advice for your location?
Has she provided to you why she sought the comfort of another?
Also how did she justify to herself that it was ok to cheat?
Finally was her plan for when she was caught?
Sorry if it has already been discussed, I was just trying to get a feel of her thought process.
Do what is right for you, exercise, eat healthy, talk to a IC or at least a family pet, don’t have one; get a gold fish as they never give bad advice.
Buffer


----------



## Nucking Futs

Larry12 said:


> I was thinking maybe meet up in person..on the quiet. Ask if they are still married. If she says yes the break it to her gently. If they're seperating...ask if she knows it's been going on.


Your plan is to ambush her? Bad plan. Or are you going to ask her to meet you somewhere and talk, like a date? Bad plan. Call her, tell her your wife has been cheating with her husband and offer her the proof.


----------



## Larry12

Buffer said:


> Brother, how are you doing now?
> 
> I have good days and bad. My greatest feeling is sadness tinged with anger. I still can't get my head around it.
> 
> May I ask a few questions? I must have missed some.
> Has WW agreed to D?
> 
> I haven't filled yet but planning on doing so this week. I'm sure she will agree to it.
> 
> Did you get independent legal advice for your location?
> 
> Yes, I've had a consultation with the solicitor already (England)
> 
> Has she provided to you why she sought the comfort of another?
> 
> She says that he became a good person to talk to about the difficulties in the relationship between myself and her parents. They do not approve of me for religious reasons and she has been living a double life with them, from childhood, so that she can satisfy her own life as well as the desires of her parents.
> 
> Also how did she justify to herself that it was ok to cheat?
> 
> She has not. She just said it crossed a line and a lie became a lie which became a lie and she could control it snowballing.
> 
> Finally was her plan for when she was caught?
> 
> I'm not sure if she thought she was going to get caught and I'm not sure she had a plan. She's very good at parking her emotions, not dealing with things and living in the present. She's almost a robot with her emotions. I've had very little remorse.
> 
> Sorry if it has already been discussed, I was just trying to get a feel of her thought process.
> Do what is right for you, exercise, eat healthy, talk to a IC or at least a family pet, don’t have one; get a gold fish as they never give bad advice.
> Buffer


No worries about the questions. Answers above. I have started IC and have my next session in a couple of days. I have taken myself away for a few days and had no contact with her. She has massaged a couple of times but only to discuss sleeping arrangements for that night.


----------



## Larry12

Nucking Futs said:


> Your plan is to ambush her? Bad plan. Or are you going to ask her to meet you somewhere and talk, like a date? Bad plan. Call her, tell her your wife has been cheating with her husband and offer her the proof.


I was thinking of meeting her in person so that she had the knowledge she needed rather than hanging up on me and also to try and be as adult as possible about it. Then I was thinking of meeting her in the place that my WW and AP used to meet up and then go for a walk into a nearby park in so that if it ever got back to them they would realise I knew about all the times they met up there. Too cold?


----------



## Kamstel

Larry, don’t worry too much about meeting the jerk’s wife where they would meet. Meet someplace convenient for her as this will probably be a shock to her, and she will need to be close to those who can support her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Larry12 said:


> I was thinking of meeting her in person so that she had the knowledge she needed rather than hanging up on me and also to try and be as adult as possible about it. Then I was thinking of meeting her in the place that my WW and AP used to meet up and then go for a walk into a nearby park in so that if it ever got back to them they would realise I knew about all the times they met up there. Too cold?


So you want to do with her what the two cheaters did on one of their dates? Are you serious?


----------



## Gabriel

You aren't trying to establish a relationship with the APs wife. You just need to tell her. Doesn't have to be in person...if I was a woman I wouldn't meet some stranger someplace.

I would simply get her on the phone (no voicemails - as that will tip them off).

You: Hello, my name is Larry, and unfortunately I have found out that my wife and your husband are having an affair. Did you know this already?
Her: (either she says yes, or she says, WHO IS THIS?) If the latter...
You: I'm sorry to deliver this news, but I thought you should know, because in your shoes, I would want to know. My wife's name is X, and they have been XYZ (give her details).

At that point, your job is over.

If she says she already knows, then perhaps you can offer to trade information about what you each know. At that point, you can either do that right there on the phone, or agree to meet. No other reason to meet in person.


----------



## Gabriel

Larry12 said:


> I was thinking of meeting her in person so that she had the knowledge she needed rather than hanging up on me and also to try and be as adult as possible about it. Then I was thinking of meeting her in the place that my WW and AP used to meet up and then go for a walk into a nearby park in so that if it ever got back to them they would realise I knew about all the times they met up there. Too cold?


Larry, this is the talk of a creepy person. This isn't for you. You are doing her a favor, that's it.


----------



## Larry12

Yeh I appreciate the advice. I was just angry. Rollercoaster of emotions at the moment.


----------



## TDSC60

The rollercoaster at this time is normal.

Time will help. Eventually you will see that you are better off without her and the drama and pain she brings with her in your life. 

The ups and downs with level out, the ride will stop, you can get off and move on with your life without her in it.


----------



## Yeswecan

Larry12 said:


> Yeh I appreciate the advice. I was just angry. Rollercoaster of emotions at the moment.


It gets better. Keep focused. You deserved none of this. The OMW deserved none of this. We are here for you!


----------



## Marduk

Larry12 said:


> I was thinking of meeting her in person so that she had the knowledge she needed rather than hanging up on me and also to try and be as adult as possible about it. Then I was thinking of meeting her in the place that my WW and AP used to meet up and then go for a walk into a nearby park in so that if it ever got back to them they would realise I knew about all the times they met up there. Too cold?


It is not your job to convince her of anything.

It is your job to give her the information that she needs to know. Do that, and nothing more - get out with as little drama as possible. You have enough drama on your own to deal with.


----------



## Numb26

Larry12 said:


> Yeh I appreciate the advice. I was just angry. Rollercoaster of emotions at the moment.


Being on the rollercoaster is perfectly normal right bow but you have to make decisions with you brain right now. Not your heart. You can do what needs to be done. We are here for you


----------



## mickybill

A couple things off the top of my head. 

I don;t know if you said where you are but in most courts a 3 year marriage with no kids means pretty much nothing. You will get what you both came in with and split any assets acquired during the marriage, 99% sure of no spousal support unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Treat your contact with the OBS as a business transaction. Calling or email if you are sure you are talking to her and NOT her husband.
I don't know many women who would agree to meet a man she doesn't know to talk about "something important". Treat her like a hostile witness as you 
don't know how she will react.

If she was a friend or neighbor then ok but not a stranger. Good luck


----------



## Wolfman1968

Larry12 said:


> I was thinking of meeting her in person so that she had the knowledge she needed rather than hanging up on me and also to try and be as adult as possible about it. Then I was thinking of meeting her in the place that my WW and AP used to meet up and then go for a walk into a nearby park in so that if it ever got back to them they would realise I knew about all the times they met up there. Too cold?



OK, I'm going to be the outlier and avoid caution here. 

While I agree that you have a moral obligation to tell the AP's wife, I think TIMING needs to be considered carefully. It all depends on what delusional plans your WW has.

It's pretty clear and universally accepted that if someone wanted to shock their Wayward spouse and give Reconciliation a chance, then contacting the AP's spouse ASAP is crucial. The two of you can pool efforts to break up the affair. More often than not, the AP never really intended to separate from their spouse and was just stringing your Wayward Spouse along. Enlisting the AP's spouse to break up the affair often leads to the AP throwing your Wayward Spouse under the bus in order to preserve the marriage they never really intended to leave. This can be a cold shock of reality for your Wayward Spouse, which can be the first step to Reconciliation (if desired). 

HOWEVER!!:
If you are completely set on Divorce, then it may behoove you if your Wayward Spouse continues in a delusional state. The Wayward may be more willing to forego Alimony, maximum property rights, child custody, etc. if they think they will be taken care of by the AP anyway, or if any baggage (kids) might repel their newfound AP love, or if they're just in a rush to get the divorce over with so that they can start their fantasy life with the AP. 

On the other hand, if the AP's spouse causes trouble and the AP breaks it off with your Wayward. then your Wayward's dream of coupled bliss with the AP will be shattered. As a result, self-preservation could drive your Wayward to dig their heels in and make every move a fight to the death in order to get the maximum payout (since AP won't be supporting them now) or maybe even make the divorce so overwhelming that you might give up, come back to the table for a Reconciliation, and become their Plan B. 

So personally, if I were you, I'd wait until the Big Issues are settled in the divorce negotiations (with no possibility of take-back) before pulling the trigger on informing the AP's wife.

I agree you can't "nice" someone into a better divorce settlement, but you CAN manipulate their pipe-dream fantasy delusions for your own benefit. Just be clear--you're not counting on them to be "nice" or extend you any goodwill. Instead, you are counting on their own selfishness and stupidity about their fantasy AP to provide you an opportunity to outmaneuver them.


----------



## Larry12

Wolfman1968 said:


> OK, I'm going to be the outlier and avoid caution here.
> 
> While I agree that you have a moral obligation to tell the AP's wife, I think TIMING needs to be considered carefully. It all depends on what delusional plans your WW has.
> 
> It's pretty clear and universally accepted that if someone wanted to shock their Wayward spouse and give Reconciliation a chance, then contacting the AP's spouse ASAP is crucial. The two of you can pool efforts to break up the affair. More often than not, the AP never really intended to separate from their spouse and was just stringing your Wayward Spouse along. Enlisting the AP's spouse to break up the affair often leads to the AP throwing your Wayward Spouse under the bus in order to preserve the marriage they never really intended to leave. This can be a cold shock of reality for your Wayward Spouse, which can be the first step to Reconciliation (if desired).
> 
> HOWEVER!!:
> If you are completely set on Divorce, then it may behoove you if your Wayward Spouse continues in a delusional state. The Wayward may be more willing to forego Alimony, maximum property rights, child custody, etc. if they think they will be taken care of by the AP anyway, or if any baggage (kids) might repel their newfound AP love, or if they're just in a rush to get the divorce over with so that they can start their fantasy life with the AP.
> 
> On the other hand, if the AP's spouse causes trouble and the AP breaks it off with your Wayward. then your Wayward's dream of coupled bliss with the AP will be shattered. As a result, self-preservation could drive your Wayward to dig their heels in and make every move a fight to the death in order to get the maximum payout (since AP won't be supporting them now) or maybe even make the divorce so overwhelming that you might give up, come back to the table for a Reconciliation, and become their Plan B.
> 
> So personally, if I were you, I'd wait until the Big Issues are settled in the divorce negotiations (with no possibility of take-back) before pulling the trigger on informing the AP's wife.
> 
> I agree you can't "nice" someone into a better divorce settlement, but you CAN manipulate their pipe-dream fantasy delusions for your own benefit. Just be clear--you're not counting on them to be "nice" or extend you any goodwill. Instead, you are counting on their own selfishness and stupidity about their fantasy AP to provide you an opportunity to outmaneuver them.



Thanks for this post. I think I am going to stick to my plan of not exposing the affair until the big items are sorted.

I have been NC for a week. She has messaged me multiple times, mainly about her whereabouts in relation to sleeping arrangements but I haven't responded. I have a meeting with the legal team I am working with, tomorrow, to get the divorce started. I have also had another IC session. I have managed to pull a couple of OK days together. 

The more I read about sociopaths the more I believe that she is one. I take some weird comfort from this as it seems there is very little I could have done. 

Occasionally my mind reminds me of everything that's happened and I still cannot believe this is going on.


----------



## bandit.45

Stay detached and go dark as you can on her. And if you do see her, understand that you don't have to be all friendly and nice. You shouldn't be making jokes with her. This woman stole three years of your life from you.


----------



## Buffer

Keep up the 180, take care of you. Get all your poo 💩 in one sock, then have her served and exspose to AP W. She needs to know.
Buffer


----------



## Kamstel

When do you meet with the lawyers?

Good luck and stay strong


----------



## Larry12

Kamstel said:


> When do you meet with the lawyers?
> 
> Good luck and stay strong



Met today. Documents being drafted now. Thanks for all for your words, it really does mean a lot to me.


----------



## Numb26

Larry12 said:


> Kamstel said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do you meet with the lawyers?
> 
> Good luck and stay strong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Met today. Documents being drafted now. Thanks for all for your words, it really does mean a lot to me.
Click to expand...

Make sure you come here when you need support (because you will). Stay strong


----------



## Larry12

Hi all,

Just wanted to provide an update and get my thoughts onto paper. 

The pain is easing. Occasionally, when I take my mind to the reality, the thought of what she has done makes me feel sick. The betrayal. The realisation that I didn't know her. The realisation that our marriage was very much one-sided without me realising it. The pain of being second best. 

We've had very little contact. She still hasn't shown any remorse. I Know I won't get any now. There was a rumour within my friend circle that she was thinking about writing me a letter to communicate her feelings. She's done this before a few years ago but I still haven't had anything. She's actually moved out now and found herself another apartment in the centre of the city we live in. Personally, I think she should retreat from the city centre where everything seems to be so disposable and people come and go, a rat race. But then again she's not mine to worry about anymore. The rare communication has turned to the financial settlement. I think it's clear she's finally spoken to someone legal. I know she will either have the divorce papers or is just about to get them. The first day alone in our apartment was probably the hardest. The home we had built was no more. All her belongings are gone. The shared memories, I packed up and put in her stuff to take. This was to be the start of my journey without her. It's taking time to sink in. I still feel an emptiness but it's interesting looking back to see how far I've come given time. I'm very lucky to have the colleagues, friends and the little family that I do have.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Glad to hear of the progress. It will get easier.


----------



## BluesPower

3Xnocharm said:


> Glad to hear of the progress. It will get easier.


What happened with the AP's wife, were you able to tell her or what? I never saw the answer to that.


----------



## colingrant

Betrayed spouses often keep themselves in pain incarceration by waiting for the wayward to return empathy and remorse. This actually makes things worse because you're seeking support from the person the least likely to give it to you and who means the most. 

This empowers her beyond belief and dis-empowers you equally. I recommend you assume she won't and will NEVER give it to you. Once you can remove yourself from any form of hope or expectation, is the moment, you'll not seek or look forward to an email, letter, text or meeting to receive what is due apologies and remorse, but the tragedy of infidelity, rarely comes with such positive vibes when you wish for it to. 

The freedom you can earn from not seeking anything from her will surprise and embolden you, which in turn will launch your post affair life with strength and conviction as you shape a life with or without her. One thing Waywards don't want to see is an empowered, strong, independent spouse who can or has moved on even while loving them still.

Conversely, they wish for you to gleefully await there texts, emails, calls and opportunities to meet with them so that they can be reminded they have you where they want you, which is on the edge of your seat to see them, checking your email inbox to receive emails, and your phone for incoming texts and calls, as your heart races just seeing the name light up on your phone.

When waywards see or feel the betrayed is emotionally independent, then dependence on the inured betrayed spouses attachment to them, is in question, which changes the infidelity dynamic, whether they wish to admit it or not. It's a test of wills and the one with the strength to not submit to temptation is the one who can win. Typically, it's the betrayed whose will is tested the greatest, hence you hold the power on where this goes, for or against you.

It's hard as hell, but it can be done and many have. I've done it twice and all I can say is it's a process where feeling better and stronger is as slow time changes from spring and winter solstice. But just like how the days are now getting longer, and one day you look up and it's 7:30 PM and still light out, so too will your confidence and joy over a 3-6 month period.


----------



## shortbus

Good luck buddy, the pain will ease. It will be replaced by, THANK GOD I'M DIVORCED FROM HER!
Best wishes going forward.


----------



## arbitrator

Larry12 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wanted to provide an update and get my thoughts onto paper.
> 
> The pain is easing. Occasionally, when I take my mind to the reality, the thought of what she has done makes me feel sick. The betrayal. The realisation that I didn't know her. The realisation that our marriage was very much one-sided without me realising it. The pain of being second best.
> 
> We've had very little contact. She still hasn't shown any remorse. I Know I won't get any now. There was a rumour within my friend circle that she was thinking about writing me a letter to communicate her feelings. She's done this before a few years ago but I still haven't had anything. She's actually moved out now and found herself another apartment in the centre of the city we live in. Personally, I think she should retreat from the city centre where everything seems to be so disposable and people come and go, a rat race. But then again she's not mine to worry about anymore. The rare communication has turned to the financial settlement. I think it's clear she's finally spoken to someone legal. I know she will either have the divorce papers or is just about to get them. The first day alone in our apartment was probably the hardest. The home we had built was no more. All her belongings are gone. The shared memories, I packed up and put in her stuff to take. This was to be the start of my journey without her. It's taking time to sink in. I still feel an emptiness but it's interesting looking back to see how far I've come given time.* I'm very lucky to have the colleagues, friends and the little family that I do have.*


*And rest assured that you're going to always need them! Accept moral support no matter where it comes from and be grateful for it!

Combating infidelity should never be "a do-it-yourself battle!" Never has been ~ Never will!*


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## Larry12

Hi guys,

I just wanted to provide an update, mainly I think just to get my thoughts onto paper.

I am doing OK, probably better than I would have expected. I have a weekly therapy session that has helped me to process it all. I found that I was actually doing my head in by being on here, reading stories similar to mine and reminding myself about events so decided I needed I take a break. It's helped but sometimes I do need to be reminded that I'm not the only one in this situation. I have some really good friends around me.

In terms of the divorce, it's going ahead. My STBXW refused to accept the points in my divorce petition but did not disagree to it going through. This is somewhat frustrating that she has not 'owned' what she has done but ah well, it's on her. 

We've had minimal contact. We seem to have an email trail going on that is fully about the divorce and we have one that is about other things like bills, mail, covid, she even wished me a happy birthday a couple of months ago. I don't really respond to any of them though and they're not all the time, possibly once or twice a month now. 

It's now come down to the finance settlement agreement. I offered her a sum that I deemed fair and based on a 50/50 split. The valuation of the apartment was less than I was expecting which helped bring my offer down. She took 5 weeks to respond. When I finally got the response, she wanted almost double. My attorney said that she was trying to take me for every penny 'and the shirt off my back'. This really annoyed me. That week I told the AP wife via text. She asked a lot of questions and has been quiet ever since. I am not going to pursue anything more on that front now. 

I still have a couple of bits of intel on my STBXW that she would really not want me to disclose. Mainly to her family about her double life as well as I guess, the affair and worst of all, the fact the some of her other siblings are also living double lives. My initial thoughts were to try and get her to settle with this in mind. Offering to sign a confidentiality agreement if she agrees to a fair settlement. I want to avoid any reason for her to pursue a case of blackmail or extortion and rather than just saying 'agree to my offer otherwise I'm going to tell your family what has been going on and send them all the information and pictures I have'. 

In the meantime, I am still waiting to hear back from her after I responded to her counteroffer (via my attorney) by stating that I wasn't moving and wanted her to reconsider. The offer has actually gone down as I have paid another mortgage payment. 

I'm really looking forward to the day I can move on and release the shackles but appreciate that this situation could go on for a couple more months yet. 

Anyway, thanks for listening.


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## Divinely Favored

Larry12 said:


> Can you point me in the right direction please?


Check out thread Always Wary by Wrangler Man that guy rocks! He nuked his cheating ex from 40k feet and left the country. Last i saw he was taking job in England training horses.


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## OutofRetirement

Uness


Larry12 said:


> *In terms of the divorce, it's going ahead. *


With that phrasing, it tells me you are still hurting pretty badly. The blood and tears practically drip out of your words. Time will help, you just have to bear down and continue moving forward.

Your wife is extremely upset that you called her a cheater in your divorce petition. She is very angry with you, and not just because you called her a cheater in a legal document. She is angry you didn't put up with her cheating and lies and deception. She thought you loved her, given your history, she thought you'd fight for her and never leave her. She is aware she can still hurt you with the apartment. And she is going to do just that.

What happens if your wife never agrees to a "fair" settlement? In the US, eventually a judge decides. What happens in your locale?


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## Larry12

OutofRetirement said:


> Uness
> 
> With that phrasing, it tells me you are still hurting pretty badly. The blood and tears practically drip out of your words. Time will help, you just have to bear down and continue moving forward.
> 
> Your wife is extremely upset that you called her a cheater in your divorce petition. She is very angry with you, and not just because you called her a cheater in a legal document. She is angry you didn't put up with her cheating and lies and deception. She thought you loved her, given your history, she thought you'd fight for her and never leave her. She is aware she can still hurt you with the apartment. And she is going to do just that.
> 
> What happens if your wife never agrees to a "fair" settlement? In the US, eventually a judge decides. What happens in your locale?



Yeh, I mean I still feel like what has happened really sucks. Almost like that feeling of what could have been. I'm really pleased with myself that I didn't pursue R and I still want her to hurt bad. Sometimes I feel bitter and want to cause misery to both my STBX and the AP but I'm not sure how I would look back on that in years to come if I do. I appreciate that I need to get to a state of indifference but while the D is still going on it's hard to get there. I'm hoping having gone NC with her, it will have made an impact but I guess I'll never know. If she is feeling angry like you say, then I would at least feel a sense of 'well at least I got some emotion out of her'. 

I always fought for us. Whenever something wasn't quite right I always wanted to sort it out as quickly as possible and move on. I made a promise to myself that every day I was going to try and make her/us as happy as possible and I really did stick to it. It sort of feels like that's been thrown in my face. I wanted to be the best man/husband/life partner I could be. I always felt sorry for her upbringing and I guess wanted to make amends. 

I'm UK based and a judge will ultimately decide on the outcome. I found out today that they have ruled in my favour and ordered my STBXW to pay all the legal costs. Some good news at last!


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## OutofRetirement

Larry12 said:


> they have ruled in my favour and ordered my STBXW to pay all the legal costs. Some good news at last!


That is great news. So frequently we read about injustices during divorce, so at least you have justice in this one instance.

I blew up my wife's affair partner's life as much as I could. I was fortunate that the circumstances allowed this. Mostly the circumstances don't, but I could. I believe "indifference" is overrated. Any guy who cheats with another guy's wife has to believe the husband is not just going to lay down and let it go. If I cheated with a married woman, I'd expect the husband would try to hurt me if he could if he finds out. What really is the difference between "revenge" and "consequences"? Not much in my opinion. You just have to be sure you don't end up in a jail cell.

There usually is not justice in divorce court. Good that you got some justice there. There is no justice in the relationship when you are cheated on. That you must accept that life is not always fair, and that doing the right thing sometimes doesn't give you justice in this world.


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## Goose54

My empathy goes to OBS who it appears is still in the dark about her WH.


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## aine

Goose54 said:


> My empathy goes to OBS who it appears is still in the dark about her WH.



@Larry12 are you going to let the OBS know what the lowlife husband of hers is doing, that is one way to blow up his life and have him grappling. His wife needs to know too.


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## bandit.45

> I'm UK based and a judge will ultimately decide on the outcome. I found out today that they have ruled in my favour and ordered my STBXW to pay all the legal costs. Some good news at last!


Hold on. Let me see if I can wrap my brittle skull around this bit of information:

You're a male. From the UK. A UK husband. 

And the judge actually found in favor of the husband? Does the BBC news know about this? 

Sweet Lord, praise Jesus and all his angels! A British judge actually did something right for once!


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## Nucking Futs

bandit.45 said:


> Hold on. Let me see if I can wrap my brittle skull around this bit of information:
> 
> You're a male. From the UK. A UK husband.
> 
> And the judge actually found in favor of the husband? * Does the BBC news know about this? *
> 
> Sweet Lord, praise Jesus and all his angels! A British judge actually did something right for once!


If they find out they'll suppress it.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Goose54 said:


> My empathy goes to OBS who it appears is still in the dark about her WH.


edit.


Larry12 said:


> *That week I told the AP wife via text. She asked a lot of questions and has been quiet ever since.* I am not going to pursue anything more on that front now.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for listening.


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## Goose54

I’m FULLY aware he told OBS, 5 f—-king weeks later.

*MY EMPATHY IS WITH OBS!*


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## phillybeffandswiss

LOL. posting three days later “who it appears is still in the dark” and complaining about OP not following your time table says you missed the post. Yell all day long, no one here is required to follow advice or alter their life for any of us.


Goose54 said:


> I’m FULLY aware he told OBS, 5 f—-king weeks later.
> 
> *MY EMPATHY IS WITH OBS!*


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## NorseViking

Larry12 said:


> I didn't want her to see any of the hurt, sadness and anger i'm feeling. I asked her if there was anything left to salvage and told her I wasn't sure there was. She didn't respond which I can only assume means NO. What I find so chilling is her lack of remorse, empathy, compassion. Nothing. If only let she could feel the pain and shock I'm in.


WTF??? 
Rip her to pieces, crush her, destroy her future, mark her for ever as a cheater among friends/family/co-workers..
Do not take ANY prisoners...


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## GC1234

.


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## bandit.45

NorseViking said:


> WTF???
> Rip her to pieces, crush her, destroy her future, mark her for ever as a cheater among friends/family/co-workers..
> Do not take ANY prisoners...


It's the only way gold-digging hos like her will learn.


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## Buffer

Strength brother the bun fight is almost over.
Have you spoken to APW again?
One day at a time
Buffer


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## Evinrude58

Larry12 said:


> Thanks for all your points. She's been staying at a combination of her sisters and our apartment. When she's been at ours i've chosen to sleep elsewhere.
> 
> Totally agree that she is broken. I guess i'm not convinced at the moment whether she is serious to get the help she needs. What I would be willing to salvage is being with a woman that I loved, with all the amazing qualities and to salvage the life we were building. I know a lot of people will say this but she was the last person I expected this from. She never had a bad word to say about anyone, always looked positively on life, has liberal views on things etc.
> 
> It's really helped me by writting all this down. I can see that on the surface it looks like i'm in denial and that there is not much to hang onto other than potentially a fantasy/happy ending


You are thinking straight except for one thing. You describe her as “the woman you love”. That is absolutely untrue.
Think about this: Would you be in love with a woman who you knew was cheating on you, or was dating others while she was dating you? Would you fall in love with a woman who is an absolute liar? I suspect from your reaction to finding out she used cheating, that the answer is no. You fell in love with who you wanted to believe your wife is. Your wife is not that person. You now know she is waaaaayyyy different from who you fell in love with. Honestly, it’s uncommon for a person to cheat in the first year if marriage. This says volumes about her feelings for you and her self control. You’ve got to know you would never be secure in this relationship again.
I’d i were you, I would quickly divorce her and not even put a lot of thought into the relationship at this point. Put her in your rear view mirror and move on. Your wife is just a really lousy person and should never get married again.
I’m sorry. Don’t listen to your emotions, keep moving forward with the logical side of your mind which is screaming at you to get out.
I wish you the best in getting out fast and healing from this. Don’t drag it out and suffer needlessly.

Edit: sorry, just read your thread. You’re doing the right thing. You are a very strong person. I know from experience how hard it is to find the strength to do what one knows must be done, in spite of the emotional anguish we feel from it.
I too hope you crush your horrible wife. She is particularly deserving of some enlightenment.


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