# I, woman, gets turned down for sex by man.



## Louise McCann

I feel so pathetic. Previously, I had mentioned going through a dry spell and the lack of any sexual desire since my separation. I thought I had become asexual.

That all changed when one of my Tinder matches (19 year old) who added me on snapchat sent me videos of him touching himself. I was unfazed until he started yelling out my name...I was sold! We exchanged nudes and he asked to meet. While there was no explicit talk of us having sex, I thought the fact that I was going over to his place was a clear sign! 

When I got there, he claimed to be tired & recovering from a comedown from MDMA. Classy. While polite, he did not seem very engaging or into me. We talked, watched some tv, smoked a joint. He kept yawning so I got ready to leave before he asked me when I was free to meet again. We settled for Tuesday and I reached home 3 hours ago. 

Is he just not attracted to me? Is this Tuesday thing just an excuse to ghost me? I was under the impression that guys were not that selective with choosing a sex partner. Furthermore I am far from repulsive, I get the attention of men regularly in my daily life, many of whom were even better looking than this guy. I cannot seem to take this rejection. 

I thought men reject sex only if a girl is super unattractive... could it be all this time that I thought I was good looking, I've actually been ugly? ? I sound childish but I genuinely feel ****. All I wanted was a good time and to forget about my ex for once but now I am reminded of my inadequacies again. Also I was painfully horny and ready to explode - I can now truly relate to men's blue balls.


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## sokillme

So you decided you are going to get your sexual worth from a guy who sends you a video jacking and yelling your name? I mean if you need to know guys want sex with you you could post on a board about hookups and I bet you will get some guy into you. Seriously this is the bar you want to set? I get that you may be horny but shesh.

He is a dude who sent you jack videos yelling your name. Doesn't sound like the most stable individual. He's probably bipolar or something.


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## leon2100

I'm not in the dating scene... but if I were, I wouldn't touch you on the first encounter with a 10 foot pole. Too many men find themselves being accused of sexual abuse in these situation. Not that you aren't desirable... it's just a sign of times!


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> So you decided you are going to get your sexual worth from a guy who sends you a video jacking and yelling your name? I mean if you need to know guys want sex with you you could post on a board about hookups and I bet you will get some guy into you. Seriously this is the bar you want to set? I get that you may be horny but shesh.
> 
> He is a dude who sent you jack videos yelling your name. Doesn't sound like the most stable individual. He's probably bipolar or something.


Lol thanks, I enjoyed reading your comment. I know it's ridiculous but for me sexual attraction is purely physical so I am willing to look over his flaws. He's hot and I was horny! 

I don't take rejection well at all, especially if it's with regards to my appearance which is something I take a lot of pride in. Now I am not so sure anymore


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## Diana7

Good grief is this for real? Please have more respect for yourself that to act this way. Going back to a strange mans place on the first meeting is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you no thought for your safety?


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## Herschel

Diana7 said:


> Good grief is this for real? Please have more respect for yourself that to act this way. Going back to a strange mans place on the first meeting is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you no thought for your safety?


Do you think she has no thought for her safety? I don't think she was asking for moral input, which is why I didn't respond. So, maybe you should stick with her request instead of trying to impart your "moral code" on her.

OP, it's possible he's tired. He may also been all talk as some guys are.


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## Louise McCann

leon2100 said:


> I'm not in the dating scene... but if I were, I wouldn't touch you on the first encounter with a 10 foot pole. Too many men find themselves being accused of sexual abuse in these situation. Not that you aren't desirable... it's just a sign of times!


We both exchanged nudes though, I thought it was pretty obvious I was interested. 

How ugly must I be for a 19 year old to not make any sort of move on a woman, whom he has seen naked photos of, alone in his flat. & I am in good shape as well - 5 ft 4, 105 lbs, 23 inch waist.


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## honcho

He probably spends too much time online and satisfying himself and has no real idea what to do with a living breathing woman. You'd be much better served finding yourself a different option for tuesday, he's 19 and probably never had a girlfriend.


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## Louise McCann

Diana7 said:


> Good grief is this for real? Please have more respect for yourself that to act this way. Going back to a strange mans place on the first meeting is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you no thought for your safety?


I live in a very safe city. Also, the guy is 19, & we have mutual friends so the chances of a disaster occuring were slim. I took the risk anyway, we're talking 8 months' no sex here!


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## Louise McCann

honcho said:


> He probably spends too much time online and satisfying himself and has no real idea what to do with a living breathing woman. You'd be much better served finding yourself a different option for tuesday, he's 19 and probably never had a girlfriend.


I find that comforting, thank you. I would love to believe that but instead can't help but believe that I am hideous little troll.


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## ConanHub

Ok. It is an overblown myth that an average woman can get laid anytime she wants.

Secondly, you went to a dope smoking boy.

This generation is severely lacking in testosterone or simple manliness.


When I was 19, I would have banged you to sleep if I invited you over. I also would have had a drink ready and not a joint.

I recently had a woman friend get invited to a man's house where they even took a bath together and he would not put the moves on her.

Mind boggling!!!!

Don't lose your self esteem over a wimpy kid 👶.

Calm down and maybe try meeting real men.


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## WorkingOnMe

He’s 19. How old are you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NextTimeAround

You made it too easy for him. No wonder he got soft by the time you arrived.


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## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> Lol thanks, I enjoyed reading your comment. I know it's ridiculous but for me sexual attraction is purely physical so I am willing to look over his flaws. He's hot and I was horny!
> 
> I don't take rejection well at all, especially if it's with regards to my appearance which is something I take a lot of pride in. Now I am not so sure anymore


Well if you were going to pick the one guy to determine this for you, this would be the guy. /s 

Seriously get some help. Your lifestyle which seems to be driven from deep insecurity is going to end up killing you.


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## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> Ok. It is an overblown myth that an average woman can get laid anytime she wants.
> 
> Secondly, you went to a dope smoking boy.
> 
> This generation is severely lacking in testosterone or simple manliness.
> 
> 
> When I was 19, I would have banged you to sleep if I invited you over. I also would have had a drink ready and not a joint.
> 
> I recently had a woman friend get invited to a man's house where they even took a bath together and he would not put the moves on her.
> 
> Mind boggling!!!!
> 
> Don't lose your self esteem over a wimpy kid &#128118;.
> 
> Calm down and maybe try meeting real men.


The thing is I truly believed myself to be above-average looking. I have never ever had a problem with attracting guys, even those who I thought were 10s. It is soul-crushing to think that the one thing I had going for me (my looks), might never have actually been a thing!  I have extremely low self-esteem so it's difficult to not let rejection or criticism affect me. I don't think I have anything to offer to the world. Sigh. 

What's wrong with pot-smokers? I much prefer pot over alcohol  But yeah, he clearly didn't have basic etiquette. I also bummed that I didn't get to bang the only guy who turned me on in all of 8 months.


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## NextTimeAround

sokillme said:


> Well if you were going to pick the one guy to determine this for you this guy is it. /s
> 
> Seriously get some help. *Your lifestyle which seems to be driven from deep insecurity is going to end up killing you.*


YEah, remember "looking for Mr. Goodbar"?


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## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> You made it too easy for him. No wonder he got soft by the time you arrived.


Isn't that the point of hook ups though? You both go into it just for sex, no games or courtship.


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## ConanHub

H


NextTimeAround said:


> You made it too easy for him. No wonder he got soft by the time you arrived.


He is probably still breast feeding and was hoping she would change his diaper.

Wimp....


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## Herschel

I agree that if you want to just get laid, go out and get laid.

I also agree that if you are going to let not getting laid affect you like this, you may want to seek help about that specifically.


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## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> Isn't that the point of hook ups though? You both go into it just for sex, no games or courtship.


yes, but part of the excitement from sex comes from the "will she, won't she" dance of seduction.


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## Louise McCann

WorkingOnMe said:


> He?s 19. How old are you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am 24 years' old 



sokillme said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol thanks, I enjoyed reading your comment. I know it's ridiculous but for me sexual attraction is purely physical so I am willing to look over his flaws. He's hot and I was horny!
> 
> I don't take rejection well at all, especially if it's with regards to my appearance which is something I take a lot of pride in. Now I am not so sure anymore
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you were going to pick the one guy to determine this for you this guy is it. /s
> 
> Seriously get some help. Your lifestyle which seems to be driven from deep insecurity is going to end up killing you.
Click to expand...

I am undergoing therapy, with my next session being scheduled in 2 weeks. 

I agree with you though, I am highly highly insecure and I don't remember the last time I felt worthy of love. As unstable as I might be, I still have needs which therapy cannot take care of


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## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I am 24 years' old
> 
> 
> 
> I am undergoing therapy, with my next session being scheduled in 2 weeks.
> 
> I agree with you though, I am highly highly insecure and I don't remember the last time I felt worthy of love. As unstable as I might be, I still have needs which therapy cannot take care of


Your need is for some affirmation, sex with some strange guy isn't going to do that for you, it's like a short term drug. It will lead to more of the same because it doesn't fix the problem. More of the same is probably going to push quality men out of your life. Most guys will only see you as a hookup. Is hooking up really a good long term determiner to evaluate you value as a women and even a mate?

Besides that in the state you are in the first guy who shows interest in you you are going to jump at the chance. That is not a strategy to pick a good mate. 

Instead of looking for other people to give you worth, how about doing things, learning things, doing things for people less fortunate then you.

If you are horny get some tech.

Why are you so insecure?


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## NextTimeAround

If you're really that horny, make the guy come to you.


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## Louise McCann

Herschel said:


> I agree that if you want to just get laid, go out and get laid.
> 
> I also agree that if you are going to let not getting laid affect you like this, you may want to seek help about that specifically.


I guess it never came across my mind that rejection was a possibility... 

I am still hung up on my ex and emotionally unavailable, which is why I thought I was the perfect candidate for emotionless no-strings-attached sex. 

I simply don't understand how a guy can get turned on by my nudes, even those of me barefaced, to the point he jerks himself off to me, but wont hit on me in person. I must be a whale or something.


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## Herschel

Oh come on, you are talking about one random dude on the internet. I hope you realize you are like, WAY overreacting to this. Reboot and go to the bar and find a dude to bang the old fashioned way.


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> [
> 
> Your need is for some affirmation, sex with some strange guy isn't going to do that for you, it's like a short term drug. It will lead to more of the same because it doesn't fix the problem. More of the same is probably going to push quality men out of your life. Most guys will only see you as a hookup.
> 
> Besides that in the state you are in the first guy who shows interest in you you are going to jump at the chance. That is not a strategy to pick a good mate.
> 
> Instead of looking for other people to give you worth, how about doing things, learning things, doing things for people less fortunate then you.
> 
> If you are horny get some tech.


Yes while I do crave affirmation, my needs in this case are simply sexual. I have other nice decent guys trying to date me, but I am not interested... I just want a good time and this Tinder nutjob is the first guy I have been sexually attracted to since my STBX husband left.


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## chillymorn69

He a porn addict!

Kids theses days. Too much porn I could't fathom turning down a 5'4 123lb in shape horney woman because I was tired.

When porn is so availible and you spank it so frequently that you turn down the real thing s really a sad situation our young adults are being warped by all this.


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## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> I guess it never came across my mind that rejection was a possibility...
> 
> I am still hung up on my ex and emotionally unavailable, which is why I thought I was the perfect candidate for emotionless no-strings-attached sex.
> 
> I simply don't understand how a guy can get turned on by my nudes, even those of me barefaced, to the point he jerks himself off to me, but wont hit on me in person. I must be a whale or something.


Oh, I'm sure.

5'4", 105 lbs., 23 inch waist....

The boy was pathetic. Let it go. Stay in counseling.


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## Louise McCann

Herschel said:


> Oh come on, you are talking about one random dude on the internet. I hope you realize you are like, WAY overreacting to this. Reboot and go to the bar and find a dude to bang the old fashioned way.


Yes I am overreacting to it, and I apologise if that annoys you. It is embarrassing which is why the only place I can get sound advice is TAM. I can't get over the possibility that I am not as attractive as I thought I was. 

The problem with bars is that I find 80% of men unattractive. Unless it is a crowded nightclub, there isn't a big enough sample of viable men. I am also out of touch with the nightlife scene, going out for drinks isn't something I enjoy anymore. With Tinder, there will be 1-2 hot guys every 50 swipes, so I know who my targets are.


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## NextTimeAround

> I can't get over the possibility that I am not as attractive as I thought I was.


I'm convinced that physical beauty is not enough. You got to have some game. Men aren't used to women rushing over to their house for the sole purpose of sex. He was probably overwhelmed.

I used to start talking to guys in bars. It got me nowhere. Then when I waited for a guy to approach me, I noticed the difference. When we go out Saturday night, we all make the effort to look our best, so I don't think that was the difference.


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> Why are you so insecure?


I don't know... I don't remember a time in my life that I haven't been insecure. I just feel like nobody will ever love me, I mean why would they? If I were them, I wouldn't love me either.


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## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> I can't get over the possibility that I am not as attractive as I thought I was.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced that physical beauty is not enough. You got to have some game. Men aren't used to women rushing over to their house for the sole purpose of sex. He was probably overwhelmed.
> 
> I used to start talking to guys in bars. It got me nowhere. Then when I waited for a guy to approach me, I noticed the difference. When we go out Saturday night, we all make the effort to look our best, so I don't think that was the difference.
Click to expand...

It is easy for me to get laid in bars/clubs. I never ever do the approaching. I'm just at a crossroads where everybody is unattractive to me now. Hooking up over apps is pretty straightforward though, you arrange to meet and that's it! If he wasn't interested, he shouldn't have texted me. Perhaps he was all talk and not as brazen and kinky as he said he was. Or perhaps I am really super ugly!!


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## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> *It is easy for me to get laid in bars/clubs.* *I never ever do the approaching. *I'm just at a crossroads where everybody is unattractive to me now. Hooking up over apps is pretty straightforward though, you arrange to meet and that's it! If he wasn't interested, he shouldn't have texted me. Perhaps he was all talk and not as brazen and kinky as he said he was. Or perhaps I am really super ugly!!


I proved my point.


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## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It is easy for me to get laid in bars/clubs.* *I never ever do the approaching. *I'm just at a crossroads where everybody is unattractive to me now. Hooking up over apps is pretty straightforward though, you arrange to meet and that's it! If he wasn't interested, he shouldn't have texted me. Perhaps he was all talk and not as brazen and kinky as he said he was. Or perhaps I am really super ugly!!
> 
> 
> 
> I proved my point.
Click to expand...

And what was that exactly?


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## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> And what was that exactly?


That if you want to get laid, you shouldn't be chasing men. You should let them chase you.


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## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I don't know... I don't remember a time in my life that I haven't been insecure. I just feel like nobody will ever love me, I mean why would they? If I were them, I wouldn't love me either.


Please get some help. You are on a goose chase. Men, Sex, their lust for you is not going to fix this. You need to do the work to fix this yourself.

Also becoming immersed in hookup culture is probably going to hinder you from finding a man who wants to love you. Think about it, what can jack off guy really offer you? One night of sex, hopefully you won't get some disease. The next day will you feel secure about yourself, or will you feel hollow and worse? 

Lets say you make this a lifestyle for a year. You hook up with 25 men, the whole time you will be actively pursuing and being pursed by men whose only interest in you is your ... (I don't want to say it because crude, but that is what they are thinking about). This is time you could be using to find men who might really end up loving you. Desperation is not attractive.

Finally and this will be controversial but I like to deal with reality not what our society wants to pretend should be (not that I even agree with that). If you spend the next year hooking up with various men you are going to probably remove a pool of guys from potential mates. Men who would make GOOD long term potential mates. Or you will have to lie or not be authentic about yourself to these men, eventually it will come out and cause all kinds of problems. 

Here is the deal if you were doing this because you are just sexually open and this is going to be a part of what you are looking for in a partner. Alternative lifestyles and such, then sure go for it. You wouldn't want the men who will be turned off by your choices, but if this is just a phase that is really about your insecurities you are going to be doing long term damage by pursuing this lifestyle. 

I doubt you will look back and feel good about it. 

What exactly do you feel so unattractive?


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## NextTimeAround

> Lets say you make this a lifestyle for a year. You hook up with 25 men, the whole time you will be actively pursuing and being pursed by men whose only interest in you is your ... (I don't want to say it because crude, but that is what they are thinking about). This is time you could be using to find men who might really end up loving you.


If you live in a small town, this stuff can get around.


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## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what was that exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> That if you want to get laid, you shouldn't be chasing men. You should let them chase you.
Click to expand...

Oh right, fair play. Even on occasions when I had made the first move, I have never been turned down. I don't know why I let this one time rejection get to my head. 

I shall still be on the look out, whilst keeping your advice in mind.


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> Please get some help. You are on a goose chase. Men, Sex, their lust for you is not going to fix this. You need to do the work to fix this yourself.
> 
> Also becoming immersed in hookup culture is probably going to hinder you from finding a man who wants to love you. Think about it, what can jack off guy really offer you? One night of sex, hopefully you won't get some disease. The next day will you feel secure about yourself, or will you feel hollow and worse?
> 
> Lets say you make this a lifestyle for a year. You hook up with 25 men, the whole time you will be actively pursuing and being pursed by men whose only interest in you is your ... (I don't want to say it because crude, but that is what they are thinking about). This is time you could be using to find men who might really end up loving you. Desperation is not attractive.
> 
> Finally and this will be controversial but I like to deal with reality not what our society wants to pretend should be (not that I even agree with that). If you spend the next year hooking up with various men you are going to probably remove a pool of guys from potential mates. Men who would make GOOD long term potential mates. Or you will have to lie or not be authentic about yourself to these men, eventually it will come out and cause all kinds of problems.
> 
> Here is the deal if you were doing this because you are just sexually open and this is going to be a part of what you are looking for in a partner. Alternative lifestyles and such, then sure go for it. You wouldn't want the men who will be turned off by your choices, but if this is just a phase that is really about your insecurities you are going to be doing long term damage by pursuing this lifestyle.
> 
> I doubt you will look back and feel good about it.
> 
> What exactly do you feel so unattractive?


I understand your point of view. 

However, I have no desire in seeking long-term potential mates as the last thing that I need right now is a relationship when I am still feel broken from my failed marriage. I haven't even had so much as a kiss in all of 7 months and have been mostly put off by men. The sexual frustration has always been there, though.

The 19 year old was really hot and available and I thought I had seized an opportunity that presented itself. I don't see anything wrong with 2 adults engaging in consensual act. Anyways, I won't even have any time for that soon with all the travelling and moving I have lined up as well as my next year's schedule being jampacked. 

I admit that I have issues which is why I am making the choice to stay single for a while to work on myself. I'm still human with sexual urges though, which need to be attended to. 

Why does society shame sex to such a great extent?


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## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I understand your point of view.
> 
> However, I have no desire in seeking long-term potential mates as the last thing that I need right now is a relationship when I am still feel broken from my failed marriage. I haven't even had so much as a kiss in all of 7 months and have been mostly put off by men. The sexual frustration has always been there, though.
> 
> The 19 year old was really hot and available and I thought I had seized an opportunity that presented itself. I don't see anything wrong with 2 adults engaging in consensual act. Anyways, I won't even have any time for that soon with all the travelling and moving I have lined up as well as my next year's schedule being jampacked.
> 
> I admit that I have issues which is why I am making the choice to stay single for a while to work on myself. I'm still human with sexual urges though, which need to be attended to.
> 
> Why does society shame sex to such a great extent?


It's not about sex shaming. A guy sees a women who uses sex to temperately prop up here lack of self esteem and he is going to assume that that pattern will follow into their marriage. That makes her a very risky choice in a mate because it is a terribly ****ty coping skill and potentially dangerous to his emotional well being. That is called logic and wisdom and will be what any really self adjusted guy is going to think. You are free to do what every you want without shame in today's world, doesn't mean it won't affect your list of potential choices. 

By the way your whole post is that you were using this sex to boost your self esteem. As I said if it was about getting off then that is one thing. Still risky. It doesn't sound like that is the case really.


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## Rick Blaine

Herschel said:


> Do you think she has no thought for her safety? I don't think she was asking for moral input, which is why I didn't respond. So, maybe you should stick with her request instead of trying to impart your "moral code" on her.
> 
> OP, it's possible he's tired. He may also been all talk as some guys are.


She was looking out for OPs health, welfare, and safety. That is a big part of "moral coding" by the way.


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your point of view.
> 
> However, I have no desire in seeking long-term potential mates as the last thing that I need right now is a relationship when I am still feel broken from my failed marriage. I haven't even had so much as a kiss in all of 7 months and have been mostly put off by men. The sexual frustration has always been there, though.
> 
> The 19 year old was really hot and available and I thought I had seized an opportunity that presented itself. I don't see anything wrong with 2 adults engaging in consensual act. Anyways, I won't even have any time for that soon with all the travelling and moving I have lined up as well as my next year's schedule being jampacked.
> 
> I admit that I have issues which is why I am making the choice to stay single for a while to work on myself. I'm still human with sexual urges though, which need to be attended to.
> 
> Why does society shame sex to such a great extent?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about shaming sex. A guy sees a women who uses sex to temperately prop up here lack of self esteem and he is going to assume that that pattern will follow into their marriage. That makes her a very risky choice in a mate. That is called logic and wisdom and will be what any really self adjusted guy is going to think.
> 
> By the way your whole post is that you were using this sex to boost your self esteem. As I said if it was about getting off then that is one thing. Still risky. It doesn't sound like that is the case really.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I don't want a partner now. It's just sex. I am incapable of any feelings towards men for the time being. But I don't want to go years without sex either.

Sure, hooking up with a guy will never change my self-esteem. I didn't really care, I was just super horny. I had all these fantasies played out in my head and was so excited.

The rejection is what threw me off. I never knew men would ever turn down sex with any woman who wasn't below-average looking.


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## Herschel

Rick Blaine said:


> She was looking out for OPs health, welfare, and safety. That is a big part of "moral coding" by the way.


She wasn't asked to. The problem with people who think they are morally superior is that they constantly feel the need to tell you how you are doing wrong. This woman is completely capable of understanding what is safe and not and doesn't need someone in her thread judging her and trying to tell her how to live her life.


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## tech-novelist

Louise McCann said:


> Yes I am overreacting to it, and I apologise if that annoys you. It is embarrassing which is why the only place I can get sound advice is TAM. I can't get over the possibility that I am not as attractive as I thought I was.
> 
> *The problem with bars is that I find 80% of men unattractive. *Unless it is a crowded nightclub, there isn't a big enough sample of viable men. I am also out of touch with the nightlife scene, going out for drinks isn't something I enjoy anymore. With Tinder, there will be 1-2 hot guys every 50 swipes, so I know who my targets are.


In *this *you are perfectly normal. In fact, that was the exact number that the famous ******* article came up with.

But I agree with the others that you need to find a more appropriate way to satisfy your needs. Otherwise you are going to wake up dead some morning. :frown2:


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## Diana7

Herschel said:


> Do you think she has no thought for her safety? I don't think she was asking for moral input, which is why I didn't respond. So, maybe you should stick with her request instead of trying to impart your "moral code" on her.
> 
> OP, it's possible he's tired. He may also been all talk as some guys are.


Have you not heard of women who were raped/beaten up or killed after gong back to a strange mans place the first time they met? I have. Its just common sense, she had no idea who this man was. Its not about morality, its about being careful and thinking of your own safety.


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## Diana7

Herschel said:


> Do you think she has no thought for her safety? I don't think she was asking for moral input, which is why I didn't respond. So, maybe you should stick with her request instead of trying to impart your "moral code" on her.
> 
> OP, it's possible he's tired. He may also been all talk as some guys are.


Have you not heard of women who were raped/beaten up or killed after going back to a strange mans place the first time they met? I have. Its just common sense, she had no idea who this man was. Its not about morality, its about being careful and taking care of your own safety.


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## Diana7

Herschel said:


> She wasn't asked to. The problem with people who think they are morally superior is that they constantly feel the need to tell you how you are doing wrong. This woman is completely capable of understanding what is safe and not and doesn't need someone in her thread judging her and trying to tell her how to live her life.


Yes and I am sure that many now dead, raped or beaten up women said they were safe as well. :surprise: Its like waling into the lions den and being surprised when you get attacked. 
Its just madness to put yourself in such an unsafe position with a man who you just met on tinder of all places. Man on sites like that are not going to be the good reliable decent men, but the immoral, mentally sick and sometime depraved men. 

I cant believe that women cant see the dangers.


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> I understand your point of view.
> 
> However, I have no desire in seeking long-term potential mates as the last thing that I need right now is a relationship when I am still feel broken from my failed marriage. I haven't even had so much as a kiss in all of 7 months and have been mostly put off by men. The sexual frustration has always been there, though.
> 
> The 19 year old was really hot and available and I thought I had seized an opportunity that presented itself. I don't see anything wrong with 2 adults engaging in consensual act. Anyways, I won't even have any time for that soon with all the travelling and moving I have lined up as well as my next year's schedule being jampacked.
> 
> I admit that I have issues which is why I am making the choice to stay single for a while to work on myself. I'm still human with sexual urges though, which need to be attended to.
> 
> Why does society shame sex to such a great extent?


Society actually doesn't that much. What he is talking about is your future chances with a certain group of solid men.

Hookup culture is a turn off to a lot of folks. Me included though I use to be part of it.


----------



## chillymorn69

Ok your horney.

Why not let your fingers do the walking or break out the toys.

Instead of hooking up with strangers?


----------



## Louise McCann

My future chances with potential quality men will not be undermined, considering I have no intention to date at all for at least a year? It's not like I plan to spill the explicit details of my sex life on every first date I go on. I am young and in my prime, if I want to have kinky sex with hot strangers once in a while, I will do it!

My problem is finding someone who is as hot and adventurous as I would like. As a woman, being rejected for sex really killed my ego as well. That is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I need to engage in more positive uplifting self-talk. The advice from TAM-ers always tends to be more practical and logical, while my logic is often overpowered by my emotions. 

It's been nice to gain perspective and wisdom from others with ample experience, considering I am a naive 24 year old who knows jack-**** about life.


----------



## Louise McCann

chillymorn69 said:


> Ok your horney.
> 
> Why not let your fingers do the walking or break out the toys.
> 
> Instead of hooking up with strangers?


I've tried that but I don't get turned on by myself or plastic/silicone. It basically feels like crappy sex but worse. I heard that women are very much so turned on with their minds.


----------



## Louise McCann

Diana7 said:


> Herschel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think she has no thought for her safety? I don't think she was asking for moral input, which is why I didn't respond. So, maybe you should stick with her request instead of trying to impart your "moral code" on her.
> 
> OP, it's possible he's tired. He may also been all talk as some guys are.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you not heard of women who were raped/beaten up or killed after going back to a strange mans place the first time they met? I have. Its just common sense, she had no idea who this man was. Its not about morality, its about being careful and taking care of your own safety.
Click to expand...

Safe city, 19 year old, we had mutual friends, we planned to meet via snapchat. If he were to kill me, the police would be able to trace right back to him in a jiffy. I took the chance, maybe I am a reckless person but I rarely fear death.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Louise McCann said:


> I feel so pathetic. Previously, I had mentioned going through a dry spell and the lack of any sexual desire since my separation. I thought I had become asexual.
> 
> That all changed when one of my Tinder matches (19 year old) who added me on snapchat sent me videos of him touching himself. I was unfazed until he started yelling out my name...I was sold! We exchanged nudes and he asked to meet. While there was no explicit talk of us having sex, I thought the fact that I was going over to his place was a clear sign!
> 
> When I got there, he claimed to be tired & recovering from a comedown from MDMA. Classy. While polite, he did not seem very engaging or into me. We talked, watched some tv, smoked a joint. He kept yawning so I got ready to leave before he asked me when I was free to meet again. We settled for Tuesday and I reached home 3 hours ago.
> 
> Is he just not attracted to me? Is this Tuesday thing just an excuse to ghost me? I was under the impression that guys were not that selective with choosing a sex partner. Furthermore I am far from repulsive, I get the attention of men regularly in my daily life, many of whom were even better looking than this guy. I cannot seem to take this rejection.
> 
> I thought men reject sex only if a girl is super unattractive... could it be all this time that I thought I was good looking, I've actually been ugly? ? I sound childish but I genuinely feel sh*t. All I wanted was a good time and to forget about my ex for once but now I am reminded of my inadequacies again. Also I was painfully horny and ready to explode - I can now truly relate to men's blue balls.


Too young to be so worried. You are vulnerable to self-doubt. Who knows what he was thinking? Who cares? 

I've no idea what you look like, but you'd have to be unattractive in more than just a physical way for a young man of similar age to find any woman unattractive, at that age. 

I didn't read the whole thread, but I wanted to ask if you got the nerve to ask him why he did what he did? You can tell him you thought you two were going to be intimate, and how he made you think that. Then, just ask him what he had in mind and what was going on?

Almost sounds like he found you intimidating when he saw you in person. It sounds to me like you are a little too good looking for him, or something that makes him feel like he is not worthy. That's on him. 

Some men don't care who they sleep or associate with. I don't think that is the problem here.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

Dating in the 21st century. He sends you videos of him jerking off, you send him a vagina shot and then you meet for coffee. LOL!!! No thanks.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> Yes I am overreacting to it, and I apologise if that annoys you. It is embarrassing which is why the only place I can get sound advice is TAM. I can't get over the possibility that I am not as attractive as I thought I was.
> 
> *The problem with bars is that I find 80% of men unattractive. *Unless it is a crowded nightclub, there isn't a big enough sample of viable men. I am also out of touch with the nightlife scene, going out for drinks isn't something I enjoy anymore. With Tinder, there will be 1-2 hot guys every 50 swipes, so I know who my targets are.


The 80 /20 rule at work again.

I think the standards for beauty have increased in the last few decades; therefore, we're more picky.


----------



## arbitrator

Louise McCann said:


> *I am 24 years' old*
> 
> 
> 
> I am undergoing therapy, with my next session being scheduled in 2 weeks.
> 
> I agree with you though, I am highly highly insecure and I don't remember the last time I felt worthy of love. As unstable as I might be, I still have needs which therapy cannot take care of


*No disrespect, but at the ripe old age of 24, you might be seen by him as a “cradle-robber” since he’s only a sophomoric and probably virginal 19 ~ in fact, he’s probably just teasing you with no intent whatsoever of bedding down with you!

Truth be told, I think that you need to be looking for young men in their mid to upper 20’s, as I’m most certain that if a “connection” was properly made with someone their age, that they’d bang you to the cows came home and then would probably be proud enough to you to take you home to introduce to Mom and Dad!

I’d definitely recommend keeping my romantic interests well within the scope of my age range!

And just as long as you keep your physicality up and can flirt and intelligently converse with a guy, you shouldn’t have any problem whatsoever with guys your age! *


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> *My future chances with potential quality men will not be undermined, considering I have no intention to date at all for at least a year? *It's not like I plan to spill the explicit details of my sex life on every first date I go on. I am young and in my prime, if I want to have kinky sex with hot strangers once in a while, I will do it!
> 
> My problem is finding someone who is as hot and adventurous as I would like. As a woman, being rejected for sex really killed my ego as well. That is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I need to engage in more positive uplifting self-talk. The advice from TAM-ers always tends to be more practical and logical, while my logic is often overpowered by my emotions.
> 
> It's been nice to gain perspective and wisdom from others with ample experience, considering I am a naive 24 year old who knows jack-sh*t about life.


Imagine starting to date a guy with whom you want to delay sex for a few dates /weeks/ maybe months an it turns out he knows one or more of the guys you had these quickies with.

They don't have to be BFFs to share that kind of information. There have been a couple of threads on here in which the woman was exposed.

in one thread, the guys did not even like each other. They knew each other because they networked professionally in the same industry.


----------



## Louise McCann

2ntnuf said:


> Too young to be so worried. You are vulnerable to self-doubt. Who knows what he was thinking? Who cares?
> 
> I've no idea what you look like, but you'd have to be unattractive in more than just a physical way for a young man of similar age to find any woman unattractive, at that age.
> 
> I didn't read the whole thread, but I wanted to ask if you got the nerve to ask him why he did what he did? You can tell him you thought you two were going to be intimate, and how he made you think that. Then, just ask him what he had in mind and what was going on?
> 
> Almost sounds like he found you intimidating when he saw you in person. It sounds to me like you are a little too good looking for him, or something that makes him feel like he is not worthy. That's on him.
> 
> Some men don't care who they sleep or associate with. I don't think that is the problem here.


I was tempted to ask him like "Wtf? What was the point then?" but decided against it. I wouldn't want him thinking I care at all if that were the case. Maybe if he ever texts again, I might ask him. I don't understand why he would plan for Tuesday if he wasn't interested either, just be frank. Ugh children...


----------



## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My future chances with potential quality men will not be undermined, considering I have no intention to date at all for at least a year? *It's not like I plan to spill the explicit details of my sex life on every first date I go on. I am young and in my prime, if I want to have kinky sex with hot strangers once in a while, I will do it!
> 
> My problem is finding someone who is as hot and adventurous as I would like. As a woman, being rejected for sex really killed my ego as well. That is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I need to engage in more positive uplifting self-talk. The advice from TAM-ers always tends to be more practical and logical, while my logic is often overpowered by my emotions.
> 
> It's been nice to gain perspective and wisdom from others with ample experience, considering I am a naive 24 year old who knows jack-sh*t about life.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine starting to date a guy with whom you want to delay sex for a few dates /weeks/ maybe months an it turns out he knows one or more of the guys you had these quickies with.
> 
> They don't have to be BFFs to share that kind of information. There have been a couple of threads on here in which the woman was exposed.
> 
> in one thread, the guys did not even like each other. They knew each other because they networked professionally in the same industry.
Click to expand...

I don't tend to date guys in the same circle. Also, the 19 year old is a loser in many ways, lives in a council flat, unemployed. I can't imagine why my future partner would be having any business associating with Mr Tinder.


----------



## Louise McCann

arbitrator said:


> *No disrespect, but at the ripe old age of 24, you might be seen by him as a &#8220;cradle-robber&#8221; since he&#8217;s only a sophomoric and probably virginal 19 ~ in fact, he&#8217;s probably just teasing you with no intent whatsoever of bedding down with you!
> 
> Truth be told, I think that you need to be looking for young men in their mid to upper 20&#8217;s, as I&#8217;m most certain that if a &#8220;connection&#8221; was properly made with someone their age, that they&#8217;d bang you to the cows came home and then would probably be proud enough to you to take you home to introduce to Mom and Dad!
> 
> I&#8217;d definitely recommend keeping my romantic interests well within the scope of my age range!
> 
> And just as long as you keep your physicality up and can flirt and intelligently converse with a guy, you shouldn&#8217;t have any problem whatsoever with guys your age! *


I do wish to date men my age in the future when I am ready to open my heart again. However, until that time comes I am simply not attracted to men in their mid to late twenties! Or most men for that matter!

I was craving exclusively sex without the romance and for some reason I find younger guys to be soooo hot. They are kind of like a fetish - young innocent fresh.

I tend to respect older men as well, the ones I have gone out are great people but the sexual chemistry is missing. I wouldn't feel comfortable making use of someone who wanted more than just sex.


----------



## Louise McCann

There is this other 19 year old who I met recently who I honestly clicked with really well. He's Okay but has bright ginger hair and I am not sure I am into that sort of thing... he tried to kiss me and I turned him down because I was scared. The drive home was awkward and he drove on the wrong side of the road!

He's been asking to hang out again and Idk, I might just give him a shot. I mean he's got a nice smile, tattoos, muscles. It's just the fire engine red hair. Hmmm.

Sorry just needed to vent. I think it's obvious I'm desperate ?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> I don't tend to date guys in the same circle. Also, the 19 year old is a loser in many ways, lives in a council flat, unemployed. I can't imagine why my future partner would be having any business associating with Mr Tinder.


You just said that you two know people in common.


----------



## notmyrealname4

/


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> Isn't that the point of hook ups though? You both go into it just for sex, no games or courtship.


Declaring that you want a hook up doesn't stop someone from playing their own little games.

When I was younger and didn't understand these things, I thought a guy giving me the eye meant that he was interested So I would go over and talk to him, only for him to ignore me. It didn't make any sense to me at that time. 

I used to live in London myself. I met a woman who lived in Oxford and was doing online dating. She noted that whenever she agreed to go to London to meet a new guy (60 minutes on the train), sometimes the guy would stand her up. But all the guys from London who agreed to meet her in Oxford showed up. what does that tell you?

You may want to consider these little stories and others to assess what it's worth to you to make it to easy for the guy. 

You can claim "his loss" all you want, but if you continue running over to men's homes and find the same reception, it would be wise to consider some of these subtle rules.


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> Safe city, 19 year old, we had mutual friends, we planned to meet via snapchat. If he were to kill me, the police would be able to trace right back to him in a jiffy. I took the chance, maybe I am a reckless person but I rarely fear death.


How sad. If you don't care if you die for yourself how about you think of your family? 

This wont help your self esteem but make it worse. The more causal sex you have the worse you will feel, and if you are not going to tell any future mate the truth then please don't get married.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Diana7 said:


> How sad. If you don't care if you die for yourself how about you think of your family?
> 
> This wont help your self esteem but make it worse. The more causal sex you have the worse you will feel, and if you are not going to tell any future mate the truth then please don't get married.


Well said. I saw it, but didn't know how to purse my lips properly.


----------



## MattMatt

Louise McCann said:


> I live in a very safe city. Also, the guy is 19, & we have mutual friends so the chances of a disaster occuring were slim. I took the risk anyway, we're talking 8 months' no sex here!


I live in a *very* safe city.

That didn't mean that, as a journalist, I didn't have to cover the story of a young girl murdered by her friend (of 19, also, as it happens) of several years standing who decided he was going to murder her for kicks. They also had mutual friends.

There is no such thing as a very safe city. 

Please be careful.


----------



## Don't Panic

notmyrealname4 said:


> Louise you probably don't wanna hear what I'm going to say; but I feel worried for you (as much as I can worry about an internet stranger).
> 
> Rent the movie "Looking for Mr. Goodbar". Yeah, it's just a movie; but one that every woman who's contemplating this type of lifestyle should watch.
> 
> If you feel like your looks are fading (at 24, lol), then spend time at the gym. Sublimate your sexual energy to working out to the point of exhaustion. You're young, it'll do you good.
> 
> Get a makeover. Get good skin products. Whiten your teeth. Whatever, invest in your looks so you can shake this crappy self esteem. And you will feel more valuable, and not like giving a piece of yourself to any willing stranger.
> 
> Get some good sex toys. I agree with you, it's not nearly as good as having a man's body with you in bed. But they will scratch the itch. Explore with them, find out what kind of sensations you like. Use this single time to find out a bit more about what makes you tick.
> 
> Get a pet if possible. Only if you can commit to caring for it for it's lifetime. They are great pals, and you can get lots of cuddles that give you oxytocin and dopamine "hits"; which make you feel good.
> 
> Occasionally, as you can afford it; get a professional massage. That way you are still having skin contact with another human being. It's understandable to hunger after touch. It's normal. But a therapeutic massage is a much better choice than sex with a rando.
> 
> Not all diseases are preventable with a condom anymore. You are really jeopardizing your health if you go down this path.
> 
> 
> In your current state of awful self worth, you will attract abusive losers to you. That's a guarantee. Work on you. Spend sometime in self-care for a while. You really need it.



Good suggestions. I'm worried for your safety too. You have baby daughter correct? I recall you posting a photo of yourself holding your (6 month?) child. For her sake please be safe, and work on those crippling self-esteem issues. 

Being beautiful on the outside is a nice perk on life's journey, but real peace and power come when you are stronger than your own external attractiveness. Sometimes it's hard to believe that when you're in your 20's and struggling. Don't rely on others (in your case men) to find your self worth.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Most women are raped by people they know. Husband's, boyfriend's, dates, "friend's" that they have known for years even.

I am very conservative when it comes to sex. I know not everyone is.

It is your life.

But I just want to let you know you are worth more then that.

You probably have low self esteem because of your bastard ex husband.

You don't need to find your self esteem, your "worth" in these horny random men.

They don't care about you. 

They will use your beauty and your body and discard you later.

You may think you are using them, but over time you may think differently.

I am not an expert, but in my 40 some odd years of watching other people, it seems the women who have the most partners, have a hard time settling down later with anyone. 

They seem to have a hard time bonding with anyone.

Sex is fun.

It is a beautiful thing when shared with a man who you can trust, love and grow with.

I don't think your going to find what you are looking for/missing/ with these random hookups.

Please reconsider.

Disease: Please heed others warnings. You don't want a few lustful adventures to result in pregnancy or std's/aids.


----------



## Louise McCann

I know sex can be a beautiful thing, especially with someone you love. I don't want that now though. I don't want romance, I don't want feelings, none of that. 

I am young single horny, looking for a rebound and thought I'd get some action, not expecting to ever get rejected. 

Might consider the toys bit but ehh I don't know how long that will work out. I don't see myself in a relationship for at least 2 years tbh, the thought of 2 years of celibacy is nauseating.

I have a date tonight but I am SO HORNY and literally throbbing. It will be very difficult to hold back xD


----------



## ConanHub

You have a little kid?


----------



## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> Have you not heard of women who were raped/beaten up or killed after gong back to a strange mans place the first time they met? I have. Its just common sense, she had no idea who this man was. Its not about morality, its about being careful and thinking of your own safety.


Not to mention HIV or any other STD which is something she probably doesn't want. Didn't even mention pregnancy. It's a risky lifestyle. Just is. That is not a moral judgment on my part it's an intellectual one.


----------



## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I know sex can be a beautiful thing, especially with someone you love. I don't want that now though. I don't want romance, I don't want feelings, none of that.
> 
> I am young single horny, looking for a rebound and thought I'd get some action, not expecting to ever get rejected.
> 
> Might consider the toys bit but ehh I don't know how long that will work out. I don't see myself in a relationship for at least 2 years tbh, the thought of 2 years of celibacy is nauseating.
> 
> I have a date tonight but I am SO HORNY and literally throbbing. It will be very difficult to hold back xD


This is pretty much most men's existence from the age of 13 on. You learn to deal with it. Whatever you do, just try to be safe.


----------



## Louise McCann

notmyrealname4 said:


> Louise you probably don't wanna hear what I'm going to say; but I feel worried for you (as much as I can worry about an internet stranger).
> 
> Rent the movie "Looking for Mr. Goodbar". Yeah, it's just a movie; but one that every woman who's contemplating this type of lifestyle should watch.
> 
> If you feel like your looks are fading (at 24, lol), then spend time at the gym. Sublimate your sexual energy to working out to the point of exhaustion. You're young, it'll do you good.
> 
> Get a makeover. Get good skin products. Whiten your teeth. Whatever, invest in your looks so you can shake this crappy self esteem. And you will feel more valuable, and not like giving a piece of yourself to any willing stranger.
> 
> Get some good sex toys. I agree with you, it's not nearly as good as having a man's body with you in bed. But they will scratch the itch. Explore with them, find out what kind of sensations you like. Use this single time to find out a bit more about what makes you tick.
> 
> Get a pet if possible. Only if you can commit to caring for it for it's lifetime. They are great pals, and you can get lots of cuddles that give you oxytocin and dopamine "hits"; which make you feel good.
> 
> Occasionally, as you can afford it; get a professional massage. That way you are still having skin contact with another human being. It's understandable to hunger after touch. It's normal. But a therapeutic massage is a much better choice than sex with a rando.
> 
> Not all diseases are preventable with a condom anymore. You are really jeopardizing your health if you go down this path.
> 
> 
> In your current state of awful self worth, you will attract abusive losers to you. That's a guarantee. Work on you. Spend sometime in self-care for a while. You really need it.


Thank you for your concern, I appreciate it. TAM folks have so much empathy and take more time out to help others in distress, more so than my own friends. I am quite overwhelmed with the support I've received on this thread. Thank you 

I do make an effort on my appearance; I get my hair regularly trimmed, I had my teeth whitened last Friday, I spend money on luxury skincare and cosmetics... Though my body could be better with abs, my bum could be bigger. Maybe I'll work on that.

I am not sure why I am so insecure. At times I genuinely believe I am hideous looking and other times I think I am some hotstuff lol. But I always feel like nobody likes me. That I am too weird, hyper, childish and annoying for anyone to tolerate. So while I am hopelessly insecure, I almost don't even know why? Just really insecure and believe that most people wouldn't like me. 

I've been this way for as long as I can remember. My ex's departure sure didn't help. But I suspect it started from childhood when I had gone through a lot of abuse, though my parents never want to admit it.


----------



## ConanHub

I think you should skip dating and delve deeper into counseling. You do not come across as healthy emotionally or mentally.

Also, If you have a child, you need to nip this **** in the bud.

Learn to control your crotch monster 👾 so it doesn't control you.

Your kid needs you to be a grown up, not a dope smoking cum dump for idiot 19 year olds!

I used harsh terms because I lived through it as a kid.

No fun being with a sl** mom who is drunk or high ever. Not even once. 

If you have a kid, the hook up scene should be in your rear view mirror for the rest of your life.


----------



## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> You have a little kid?


Yes, she is 7 months' old and I am her primary caretaker. Her dad is a deadbeat. I am still in university, so I have to send her to daycare and in between, my mother comes to visit and look after her. 

I went on 2 short dates in 2 months, if anyone is wondering how I find the time.


----------



## ConanHub

I already said my piece. Like I said, you have a lot more than yourself to think about now.

Keep getting help and leave hooking up behind you.


----------



## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> I think you should skip dating and delve deeper into counseling. You do not come across as healthy emotionally or mentally.
> 
> Also, If you have a child, you need to nip this **** in the bud.
> 
> Learn to control your crotch monster &#128126; so it doesn't control you.
> 
> Your kid needs you to be a grown up, not a dope smoking cum dump for idiot 19 year olds!
> 
> I used harsh terms because I lived through it as a kid.
> 
> No fun being with a sl** mom who is drunk or high ever. Not even once.
> 
> If you have a kid, the hook up scene should be in your rear view mirror for the rest of your life.


Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence. 

Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence.
> 
> Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them


I just know you have to alter your outlook when you have kids.

Your behavior will directly impact them.

I am speaking from experience, not theory.


----------



## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> I just know you have to alter your outlook when you have kids.
> 
> Your behavior will directly impact them.
> 
> I am speaking from experience, not theory.


I am hoping she never finds out then or I am screwed. 

I am screwed nonetheless, I am all over the place and am now a single mother to an infant. I miss being married and feeling like myself.


----------



## Louise McCann

Okay I understand why I am so desperate for sex apart from the fact that I am ridiculously horny. It is because I just want to get over HIM. I want him OUT of my mind. I don't want him to be the last person who has been inside of me. I need to wash this man out of my hair.


----------



## EleGirl

Louise McCann said:


> We both exchanged nudes though, I thought it was pretty obvious I was interested.
> 
> How ugly must I be for a 19 year old to not make any sort of move on a woman, whom he has seen naked photos of, alone in his flat. & I am in good shape as well - 5 ft 4, 105 lbs, 23 inch waist.


OK, this is ridiculous. A guy who makes jack-off videos, screaming your name, it not into live women. He's into sex with himself. 

It's not your looks. It's that you are a live woman.

The stereotype that all men are ready to have sex with any attractive woman at the drop of a hat. There are a lot of men who are not like this. Many are more selective than just going for any warm body that is halfway good looking. And many prefer porn and their hand to a live woman. This is especially true today when a lot of young boys/men grow up using porn exclusively from an early age.

You really need to pick your hookups better.


----------



## EleGirl

Louise McCann said:


> Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence.
> 
> Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them


What is the harm? The guy you meet up with could be a serial killer or a guy just looking for women to beat up. You could end up dead and your child without a mother.


----------



## EleGirl

MattMatt said:


> I live in a *very* safe city.
> 
> That didn't mean that, as a journalist, I didn't have to cover the story of a young girl murdered by her friend (of 19, also, as it happens) of several years standing who decided he was going to murder her for kicks. They also had mutual friends.
> 
> There is no such thing as a very safe city.
> 
> Please be careful.


Yea, mutual friends does not matter... the guy who raped me was a friend of my brother's.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Or the other way to put it, whatever the crime rate is, when it happens to you it's 100%.


----------



## Louise McCann

EleGirl said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> We both exchanged nudes though, I thought it was pretty obvious I was interested.
> 
> How ugly must I be for a 19 year old to not make any sort of move on a woman, whom he has seen naked photos of, alone in his flat. & I am in good shape as well - 5 ft 4, 105 lbs, 23 inch waist.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, this is ridiculous. A guy who makes jack-off videos, screaming your name, it not into live women. He's into sex with himself.
> 
> It's not your looks. It's that you are a live woman.
> 
> The stereotype that all men are ready to have sex with any attractive woman at the drop of a hat. There are a lot of men who are not like this. Many are more selective than just going for any warm body that is halfway good looking. And many prefer porn and their hand to a live woman. This is especially true today when a lot of young boys/men grow up using porn exclusively from an early age.
> 
> You really need to pick your hookups better.
Click to expand...

Interesting viewpoint. I never knew men could choose porn over a real woman. There is much for me to learn. 

And okay, I get it. What I did was dangerous but for some reason I thought I was safe. Thankfully I am though. I don't even know what I want sigh


----------



## Don't Panic

Louise McCann said:


> Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence.
> 
> Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them


Your initial posts indicate an extreme need for reassurances that you are indeed attractive, you are actually seeking THIS reassurance from the TAM community. It's human nature to want validation, _especially_ in your 20's as newly single mother who has experienced trauma through out your short life. You're not going to get this inner peace and validation through sex, men, random hook-ups, etc. Unfortunately you don't have the luxury of healing your insecurities in a long, experimental manner, because you are now a parent. 

I absolutely don't think it's wrong for you to "have a one-night stand as a single mother". No more so than anyone else. But it could be _very very_ unsafe, I have some bone-chilling horror stories of things that have happened to women in these situations. Straight from our small, safe, community...where everyone knows each other. 

I remember your photo. You're a beautiful young woman. So is your daughter.


----------



## Louise McCann

Don't Panic said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence.
> 
> Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them
> 
> 
> 
> Your initial posts indicate an extreme need for reassurances that you are indeed attractive, you are actually seeking THIS reassurance from the TAM community. It's human nature to want validation, _especially_ in your 20's as newly single mother who has experienced trauma through out your short life. You're not going to get this inner peace and validation through sex, men, random hook-ups, etc. Unfortunately you don't have the luxury of healing your insecurities in a long, experimental manner, because you are now a parent.
> 
> I absolutely don't think it's wrong for you to "have a one-night stand as a single mother". No more so than anyone else. But it could be _very very_ unsafe, I have some bone-chilling horror stories of things that have happened to women in these situations. Straight from our small, safe, community...where everyone knows each other.
> 
> I remember your photo. You're a beautiful young woman. So is your daughter.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind words but omg I thought I took that photo down?? Is it still up?

Considering that nobody knows what I look like on TAM, I wasn't looking for affirmation. I was looking for genuinely the real reason lol, whether it's because "he's not into you, get over it etc etc" followed by encouraging words or maybe other reasons why he may have turned me down which I could use as motivation to stop caring and have my self-esteem. I tend to take everything personally and beat myself down over trivial matters, so I treat every advice I receive as inspiration if you will, to stay positive and lead a healthy life. 

I don't seem to know how to cope with difficulties and preserve my self-worth without other people helping me. 

Kinda sounds like a classic case of BPD


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> Yeah, that's one reason I haven't hooked up at all. I simply haven't had the time for dating. No man has ever met my daughter and I won't let her witness any of that. I am never drunk or high in her presence.
> 
> Do most people really think that it is wrong to have a one-night stand as a single mother? As long as my child is protected and nobody knows of it, what's the harm? At least my urge would be satisfied. How do men control themselves, I have a new found respect for them


I know loads of people, men and women, who are single and don't have sex. It doesn't kill us not having sex, really. Millions go without all the time. 

No place is safe. I remember a family in the UK many years ago who moved from a city to the countryside to make a better and safer life for their 2 daughters. One day they were walking back from the school pick up across a field, and a man attacked them brutally killing the mother, the dog and the younger daughter with an axe. The other daughter was seriously injured with severe head trauma but survived. 

We have to do all we can to make sure that we are sensible and take precautions to keep ourselves safe. 
Honestly you are worth more than these casual one night stands with men who care nothing for you. Your daughter needs you to be safe and healthy. Put your energies into being the best mum you can, and once you are more emotionally healthy in a year or two, you may be able to find a decent man who will love you and your daughter. I agree with others in that some counselling may be helpful for you.


----------



## Don't Panic

Louise McCann said:


> Thank you for your kind words but omg I thought I took that photo down?? Is it still up?
> 
> Considering that nobody knows what I look like on TAM, I wasn't looking for affirmation. I was looking for genuinely the real reason lol, whether it's because "he's not into you, get over it etc etc" followed by encouraging words or maybe other reasons why he may have turned me down which I could use as motivation to stop caring and have my self-esteem. I tend to take everything personally and beat myself down over trivial matters, so I treat every advice I receive as inspiration if you will, to stay positive and lead a healthy life.
> 
> I don't seem to know how to cope with difficulties and preserve my self-worth without other people helping me.
> 
> Kinda sounds like a classic case of BPD


I don't know if it the photo is still posted, probably not if you took it down. 

I don't recall which of the women here mentions the book "Toxic Shame" frequently (@aine or @tunera I believe) but that may be a place to start. I believe the book is all about NOT beating yourself down and taking everything personally. Again, very common to do so in your twenties, with somewhat abusive parents and a deadbeat STBX baby daddy to top it off. I can't answer why the 19 year old shot you down...IMO opinion it's more important that you A. stay safe B. NOT CARE. Maybe I shouldn't have responded to your post since I'm not addressing your sexual concern, but my heart went out to you and your insecurity. You did ask several times about your attractiveness and I did answer that 

There are many other books that might help you, but I also think the IC others have suggested would really be beneficial to you. If you are able to find a good, professional fit (no young twinkles lol)


----------



## Louise McCann

Diana7 said:


> I know loads of people, men and women, who are single and don't have sex. It doesn't kill us not having sex, really. Millions go without all the time.
> 
> No place is safe. I remember a family in the UK many years ago who moved from a city to the countryside to make a better and safer life for their 2 daughters. One day they were walking back from the school pick up across a field, and a man attacked them brutally killing the mother, the dog and the younger daughter with an axe. The other daughter was seriously injured with severe head trauma but survived.
> 
> We have to do all we can to make sure that we are sensible and take precautions to keep ourselves safe.
> Honestly you are worth more than these casual one night stands with men who care nothing for you. Your daughter needs you to be safe and healthy. Put your energies into being the best mum you can, and once you are more emotionally healthy in a year or two, you may be able to find a decent man who will love you and your daughter. I agree with others in that some counselling may be helpful for you.


Thank you  I will try to restrain myself for now. I still have the date so I'll go for that and squeeze a cheeky make-out perhaps ? I travel in a week so there will be plenty of lonely times ahead. I will also resume counselling there and maybe get back on anti-depressants.


----------



## Ynot

I won't get into the moralizing over what you did or whether it was safe of not. But I will address the OP. In your case you called this man-child's bluff. As others have said he is an immature wimp living in a fantasy world. He would rather jerk off than actually be with a real live woman. I am sure he never thought you would come over and when you did he was probably freaked out. When I was 19 I could stay up for days and keep it up for hours, so his being tired is just BS. So this one? I wouldn't waste any more time or give it another thought.


----------



## uhtred

Nothing at all wrong with your looking for sex on a first date - and nothing at all wrong with him not wanting it on a first date. Despite the rumors there are a fair number of women with higher sex drives than a fair number of men.

That said, his sending you explicit videos but not wanting sex is a little odd. 

Its always possible that rather than finding you unattractive he was intimidated. 




Louise McCann said:


> I feel so pathetic. Previously, I had mentioned going through a dry spell and the lack of any sexual desire since my separation. I thought I had become asexual.
> 
> That all changed when one of my Tinder matches (19 year old) who added me on snapchat sent me videos of him touching himself. I was unfazed until he started yelling out my name...I was sold! We exchanged nudes and he asked to meet. While there was no explicit talk of us having sex, I thought the fact that I was going over to his place was a clear sign!
> 
> When I got there, he claimed to be tired & recovering from a comedown from MDMA. Classy. While polite, he did not seem very engaging or into me. We talked, watched some tv, smoked a joint. He kept yawning so I got ready to leave before he asked me when I was free to meet again. We settled for Tuesday and I reached home 3 hours ago.
> 
> Is he just not attracted to me? Is this Tuesday thing just an excuse to ghost me? I was under the impression that guys were not that selective with choosing a sex partner. Furthermore I am far from repulsive, I get the attention of men regularly in my daily life, many of whom were even better looking than this guy. I cannot seem to take this rejection.
> 
> I thought men reject sex only if a girl is super unattractive... could it be all this time that I thought I was good looking, I've actually been ugly? ? I sound childish but I genuinely feel ****. All I wanted was a good time and to forget about my ex for once but now I am reminded of my inadequacies again. Also I was painfully horny and ready to explode - I can now truly relate to men's blue balls.


----------



## uhtred

You do NOT need to restrain yourself. Just use reasonable caution and be aware that there is a huge difference between men who want sex and men who only want sex. Be sure you get what you want. 

Nothing at all wrong with enjoying yourself any way you want as long as no one gets hurt. 



Louise McCann said:


> Thank you  I will try to restrain myself for now. I still have the date so I'll go for that and squeeze a cheeky make-out perhaps ? I travel in a week so there will be plenty of lonely times ahead. I will also resume counselling there and maybe get back on anti-depressants.


----------



## Yag-Kosha

Louise McCann said:


> I thought men reject sex only if a girl is super unattractive...


Why are y'all engaging this?

This is the same woman who slapped her husband around and wondered why he ran away to a different country. 

The last thing this woman needs is to go have sex with teenagers.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Yag-Kosha said:


> Why are y'all engaging this?
> 
> This is the same woman who slapped her husband around and wondered why he ran away to a different country.
> 
> The last thing this woman needs is to go have sex with teenagers.


.... and she is the guardian of a member of the next generation ......


----------



## ConanHub

Yag-Kosha said:


> Why are y'all engaging this?
> 
> This is the same woman who slapped her husband around and wondered why he ran away to a different country.
> 
> The last thing this woman needs is to go have sex with teenagers.


Didn't know. Thanks.


----------



## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> Yag-Kosha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are y'all engaging this?
> 
> This is the same woman who slapped her husband around and wondered why he ran away to a different country.
> 
> The last thing this woman needs is to go have sex with teenagers.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't know. Thanks.
Click to expand...

That was really hurtful thanks. I'm "that woman", as if I'm not a real person with legitimate feelings. 

The last time I slapped my husband was last year and we hadn't argued in a long time, he told me he loved me Everyday. Yeah I was cranky & moody AF after birth, but he never said anything up until the day he left. We had an argument but there was no screaming and we even said BYE and disappeared, leaving me & our then 3 week old daughter. He hasn't seen her since or contributed anything to her life. He made up lies about my parents who were supporting him financially as well to excuse his leaving. If you think he has every right to dump his wife via text message and abandon his kid and leave the country IMMEDIATELY when there was no threat (I was recovering from childbirth), then that is your right but I will have to disagree. I am not defending my actions but the way I see it, the manner in which he cut us off was inexcusable.


----------



## Louise McCann

Yag-Kosha said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought men reject sex only if a girl is super unattractive...
> 
> 
> 
> Why are y'all engaging this?
> 
> This is the same woman who slapped her husband around and wondered why he ran away to a different country.
> 
> The last thing this woman needs is to go have sex with teenagers.
Click to expand...

If putting me down allows you feel better about yourself as a person, then I am happy to be of some help


----------



## NextTimeAround

Where is your earlier thread, I need some background.

You could look at this as tough love. The only good reason to hit your spouse is for self defense or defense of others.


----------



## samyeagar

NextTimeAround said:


> Where is your earlier thread, I need some background.
> 
> You could look at this as tough love. The only good reason to hit your spouse is for self defense or defense of others.


Here's one of them...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/389257-how-win-back-spouse-if-i-abuser.html

Quite a read, and was actually pretty soft on the abuser, with plenty of victim blaming.


----------



## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> Where is your earlier thread, I need some background.
> 
> You could look at this as tough love. The only good reason to hit your spouse is for self defense or defense of others.


I rather not revise it as I am trying to avoid thinking about my ex as much as I can. 

Oh I had no good reason to hit my spouse before, I was simply a deranged little child. I spent 3 months begging for him back and blamed myself for everything that had gone wrong.

However, if his departure was warranted, surely abandoning your family would be no easy decision to make. I READ the messages he sent to his family the day he left and they did not indicate any distress or remorse.

He put me down repeatedly and lied about the entire relationship, that I chased him around with a knife and he feared for his life so he had to leave.... what? Apart from bashing me, he made barely any mention of his daughter except that he will get a job to support her and make her proud (lol). Most of the exchanges between his family and him were about the things he was excited to do, smoke weed, eat beans, go camping, and how he's sick of Asian food. Yup quality ex-husband right there. Sorry I am just feeling emotional & need to let this out


----------



## Louise McCann

samyeagar said:


> NextTimeAround said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your earlier thread, I need some background.
> 
> You could look at this as tough love. The only good reason to hit your spouse is for self defense or defense of others.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one of them...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/389257-how-win-back-spouse-if-i-abuser.html
> 
> Quite a read, and was actually pretty soft on the abuser, with plenty of victim blaming.
Click to expand...

Are we doing this now? Okay...


----------



## Louise McCann

While I admit I'm no saint, I will not tolerate anyone defending his actions. He broke my daughter's heart before any man ever could and I will NEVER forgive him for that. 

Someone here thought it would be appropriate to dig up my past, I thought I'd share 2 messages crafted by my ex the day he left. Don't ask how I got em, I have my ways it's Whatsapp. 

First message to his brother. 
2nd message to his new online lover. 

So he had time to romance other girls but not enough to say goodbye to his daughter or discuss any parenting arrangements? Do people seriously think this is okay? I am greatly appalled.


----------



## samyeagar

Louise McCann said:


> While I admit I'm no saint, I will not tolerate anyone defending his actions. He broke my daughter's heart before any man ever could and I will NEVER forgive him for that.
> 
> Someone here thought it would be appropriate to dig up my past, I thought I'd share 2 messages crafted by my ex the day he left. Don't ask how I got em, I have my ways it's Whatsapp.
> 
> First message to his brother.
> 2nd message to his new online lover.
> 
> So he had time to romance other girls but not enough to say goodbye to his daughter or discuss any parenting arrangements? Do people seriously think this is okay? I am greatly appalled.


The way he left is a separate and unrelated issue to the abuse. The way he left does not negate or forgive the abuse.

That said, that thread does offer some insight into how you think and act so it is relevant as to what advice might be helpful in this thread. In the context of that thread, it makes more sense as to how you could be upset by being rejected as you described in the first post.


----------



## Louise McCann

samyeagar said:


> The way he left is a separate and unrelated issue to the abuse. The way he left does not negate or forgive the abuse.


I don't recall ever excusing my abuse. Never have I said I slapped him because he deserved it. So why bring it up when this thread is about SEX?

I do however recall you saying how a woman like me could "wonder why he left the country". You were pretty much excusing his behaviour. That's not cool, bud, don't go there.


----------



## samyeagar

Louise McCann said:


> I don't recall ever excusing my abuse. Never have I said I slapped him because he deserved it. So why bring it up when this thread is about SEX?
> 
> I do however recall you saying how a woman like me could "wonder why he left the country". You were pretty much excusing his behaviour. That's not cool, bud, don't go there.


This is the first thread of yours I have posted on, and I did go back through and check them just to make sure.

That said, I do think that your other threads are relevant in that it does show someone who has a very strong inward focus, and that the feelings of rejection you expressed early in this thread do fit in with that. Do you feel that his rejection is fueling a desire in you to get him to validate you now that he has rejected you?


----------



## Louise McCann

samyeagar said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall ever excusing my abuse. Never have I said I slapped him because he deserved it. So why bring it up when this thread is about SEX?
> 
> I do however recall you saying how a woman like me could "wonder why he left the country". You were pretty much excusing his behaviour. That's not cool, bud, don't go there.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the first thread of yours I have posted on, and I did go back through and check them just to make sure.
> 
> That said, I do think that your other threads are relevant in that it does show someone who has a very strong inward focus, and that the feelings of rejection you expressed early in this thread do fit in with that. Do you feel that his rejection is fueling a desire in you to get him to validate you now that he has rejected you?
Click to expand...

I was but I don't really care anymore. I was feeling very emotional yesterday but I am not too bothered now. Often I cannot think logically but rather with my feelings and the replies from TAM have helped tremendously by putting things into perspective. 

But my marriage is a very touchy subject. I am trying to suppress any thoughts or memories of him. The other day I played a memory from one of my holidays and I bawled for hours. Everything hit all at once, the regret, the shame, the rejection, losing him... oh god I'm feeling the pain again. Yeah no rather not


----------



## chillymorn69

Louise McCann said:


> I've tried that but I don't get turned on by myself or plastic/silicone. It basically feels like crappy sex but worse. I heard that women are very much so turned on with their minds.


Practice practice practice.>

Lol


----------



## samyeagar

Louise McCann said:


> I was but I don't really care anymore. I was feeling very emotional yesterday but I am not too bothered now. Often I cannot think logically but rather with my feelings and the replies from TAM have helped tremendously by putting things into perspective.
> 
> But my marriage is a very touchy subject. I am trying to suppress any thoughts or memories of him. The other day I played a memory from one of my holidays and I bawled for hours. Everything hit all at once, the regret, the shame, the rejection, losing him... oh god I'm feeling the pain again. Yeah no rather not


I imagine the rejection you felt from your marriage ending, is playing particularly hard on you with this. I also imagine you are not used to rejection, or really being turned down at all in many things.


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> That was really hurtful thanks. I'm "that woman", as if I'm not a real person with legitimate feelings.
> 
> The last time I slapped my husband was last year and we hadn't argued in a long time, he told me he loved me Everyday. Yeah I was cranky & moody AF after birth, but he never said anything up until the day he left. We had an argument but there was no screaming and we even said BYE and disappeared, leaving me & our then 3 week old daughter. He hasn't seen her since or contributed anything to her life. He made up lies about my parents who were supporting him financially as well to excuse his leaving. If you think he has every right to dump his wife via text message and abandon his kid and leave the country IMMEDIATELY when there was no threat (I was recovering from childbirth), then that is your right but I will have to disagree. I am not defending my actions but the way I see it, the manner in which he cut us off was inexcusable.


My response was non committal. I review things before forming ideas about folks.


----------



## David51

Louise McCann said:


> We both exchanged nudes though, I thought it was pretty obvious I was interested.
> 
> How ugly must I be for a 19 year old to not make any sort of move on a woman, whom he has seen naked photos of, alone in his flat. & I am in good shape as well - 5 ft 4, 105 lbs, 23 inch waist.




Ever consider he is a virgin and didn’t really expect you to show up? Bye-the-way, how old are you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 2ntnuf

You have work to do on yourself. I feel truly sorry for you. I don't have any anger toward you, though I am fearful for you and your child. I simply want to ask you to continue with your counseling and any meds prescribed. I do wish you the best in your future. You are in for a rough life, if you don't work on this. It won't be easy, no matter what. Just hang in there and don't rush anything. One step at a time and you can beat whatever it is you are dealing with. There is no reason to force yourself to be overwhelmed with life. Life will do that to you on it's own. You got a taste of it here.


----------



## Louise McCann

To be honest, it already feels as though my life has crumbled before my eyes and I am left to pick up the pieces slowly, whether it's seeking sexual gratification or gaining advice from a forum. I can't imagine life could get any harder though I imagine it probably will. 

So I had sex for the first time since my dear STBX left, with another 19 year old ginger I had previously met sometime ago. We were watching movies and it happened naturally. While it felt good and I was surprised my newly constructed post-birth parts work FINE, the sex was horrible. I felt as though I was the man taking the lead. I don't remember sex being this bad at 19 but then again I was sleeping with older men at that age. 

I am 24 for reference.

While I have no regrets as that was what I wanted and felt like I needed to do at the time, I now know that 19 year olds are out of bounds! And sex for the time being for that matter. Time to be alone & reflect for a long long time


----------



## Louise McCann

samyeagar said:


> I imagine the rejection you felt from your marriage ending, is playing particularly hard on you with this. I also imagine you are not used to rejection, or really being turned down at all in many things.


This


----------



## 2ntnuf

Keep moving forward. Don't stop. Just do the things you know need done to keep yourself mentally and physically healthy for you and your baby, and continue on. Do not get pregnant. Do use protection from std's. See your counselor and continue with your education. Work on life for you and your baby......each day, as it comes. Do not stop.


----------



## David51

2ntnuf said:


> Too young to be so worried. You are vulnerable to self-doubt. Who knows what he was thinking? Who cares?
> 
> 
> 
> I've no idea what you look like, but you'd have to be unattractive in more than just a physical way for a young man of similar age to find any woman unattractive, at that age.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read the whole thread, but I wanted to ask if you got the nerve to ask him why he did what he did? You can tell him you thought you two were going to be intimate, and how he made you think that. Then, just ask him what he had in mind and what was going on?
> 
> 
> 
> Almost sounds like he found you intimidating when he saw you in person. It sounds to me like you are a little too good looking for him, or something that makes him feel like he is not worthy. That's on him.
> 
> 
> 
> Some men don't care who they sleep or associate with. I don't think that is the problem here.




It is a fact that really pretty women often have problems getting a man simply because the men lack the confidence.
It isn’t unique that a 19 yr old “boy” would be scared soft.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## David51

Run an add on craigslist.org. Under casual encounter, or FwB 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## samyeagar

David51 said:


> It is a fact that really pretty women often have problems getting a man simply because the men lack the confidence.
> It isn’t unique that a 19 yr old “boy” would be scared soft.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The dog that thinks he's big, but doesn't know what to do with the car he was chasing when he actually catches it.


----------



## Louise McCann

How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.

I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


----------



## ButtPunch

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.


I was born male....you sort of get used to it


----------



## RandomDude

ConanHub said:


> I recently had a woman friend get invited to a man's house where they even took a bath together and he would not put the moves on her.
> Mind boggling!!!!


:scratchhead:

How... the heck, did sex not occur? At least touching right?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


Learn to accept that not everyone is going to like you. That will set you free.

That's my tip for the day.


----------



## RandomDude

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

To many women, I'm too sexy! 






Some even said I should be a movie star! :|

However -> to many other women, I'm also not their type! 
I don't let it bother me as I can't be super sexy to everyone can I? 

Don't see why folks get cut up when it comes to rejection. A woman could be attractive to me but not to my mate, or vice versa.


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


I find that the older I get the less I bother what others think of me. Also the more peace I feel about who I am and the more I accept myself, the same happens.

For me its also really helped that I love and follow God. Once I began to understand something of the depth of His love for me, it changed so much. We are precious to Him no matter who rejects us. :smile2:


----------



## VibrantWings

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.



It's all about self-confidence Louise. Your recent break up probably really did bash your self esteem and you may be in some sort of depression. 

The best way to combat those feelings (outside of what a counselor may suggest for you) is to stop, think and realize what is important to YOU. Do what makes you feel good about yourself, learn new things, set goals (even very small ones) and accomplish them. Make changes that are important to you- not others. 
Use this time as an opportunity to get to know yourself better Louise. Self confidence and strength come from within yourself.

Oh and that guy that was fapping...he probably already got off and just couldn't do it again so soon. Other guys, other chances, Louise


----------



## 2ntnuf

Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


Pretty much like @Diana7 said, accept that you have flaws like everyone else. Own them, by talking about it and knowing you did wrong when you did. Know that everyone does wrong, and accept that you are one of us human beings.

Work on what you find out you don't like about yourself and over time, you will find that you are okay with being wrong sometimes and you will also find that you aren't as wrong as you once were. You will find pride in yourself and see others faults without it bothering you, because you will understand a little more about what might be going on within them.

You will also realize that usually, but not always, when someone gets angry with you, it's not so much about you. It's about them. In other words, something in their life experiences has caused them to feel intense emotion and overreact to whatever you did or said that you know in your heart wasn't how they took it. 

The fact that you have recognized your faults and worked on them will give you the added empathy and/or sympathy to them and their emotions. The horrible words or actions they've done won't harm you any more. Notice I used the word, "harm"? That's because you will still feel hurt at times, but whatever is done or said, won't actually change how you think about yourself. 

You will then be able to consider whether there needs to be something done about what happened. You will be able to separate yourself from how hurt you feel and look at the issue from a distance, rather than feeling trapped inside it. At that point, you can determine what needs done. Many times, it's simply an, I understand, sentence. Sometimes, it's more and there needs to be justice. 

You will know when that is, or at least have the courage to talk about the incident and find out what your options are to deal with the issues. The simple fact that you can place yourself in a mindset which causes you to look at whatever was done, instead of being within it, will help you to control your reactions and you will "respond" appropriately. 

A reaction, is almost a surprise, even to yourself. A response, is thought out with care.


----------



## chillymorn69

I entilted to sex damn it!


----------



## ConanHub

I


RandomDude said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> How... the heck, did sex not occur? At least touching right?


I'm just cut from a different cloth as I think most men are?

I don't get this. A woman gets naked with me in the tub and it is a green light to a very fun evening in my world.


----------



## uhtred

Rejection hurts, and the more you care about someone the more it hurts. I think the only way to not hurt is to not care- probably not what you want.



Louise McCann said:


> How do you folks deal with rejection anyway, and not give a crap about what others have to say or think about you? That is one of my greatest struggles.
> 
> I tend to care about people very easily and see everybody as my friend, girl, guy, strangers, doesn't matter. When somebody disappoints me and doesn't treat me well, I get extremely hurt and will immediately blame myself for not being likeable enough. Often I am convinced that the world is an evil place and nobody will ever like me, so I end up overreacting or lashing out at the person who hurt me, to get even.


----------



## Louise McCann

Thank you all for the heartwarming words! I have a lot of growing up to do as well as self-reflection. My flight back home is on Friday, I cannot wait to be with the rest of my family and surround myself with positivity. Being in STBX's hometown without much support or friends hasn't been too helpful with all the free time to be alone with my thoughts.

Are TAM-ers all psych majors or intellectually gifted? The advice I've received here has been BOMB, I learnt things about myself and others that I had otherwise been ignorant of. Or perhaps most of you have lived through similar experiences and can relate to my plight. Regardless, I am grateful for the compassion I've received. The world isn't so evil after all, eh









I should also have listened to what was said here and refrained from sex. I am simply not ready. Every moment was spent comparing him to my ex and how he could never measure up. Not only was the sex terrible (I can't be the only person who thinks that silent sex is complete turn-off?), but I felt used when he didn't text me after, even though I was totally put off and not attracted to him in the slightest (blame it on the oxytocin). Few hours in however, & I stopped givin a sh*t







kudos


----------



## JBTX

Louise McCann said:


> Thank you all for the heartwarming words! I have a lot of growing up to do as well as self-reflection. My flight back home is on Friday, I cannot wait to be with the rest of my family and surround myself with positivity. Being in STBX's hometown without much support or friends hasn't been too helpful with all the free time to be alone with my thoughts.
> 
> Are TAM-ers all psych majors or intellectually gifted? The advice I've received here has been BOMB, I learnt things about myself and others that I had otherwise been ignorant of. Or perhaps most of you have lived through similar experiences and can relate to my plight. Regardless, I am grateful for the compassion I've received. The world isn't so evil after all, eh
> 
> I should also have listened to what was said here and refrained from sex. I am simply not ready. Every moment was spent comparing him to my ex and how he could never measure up. Not only was the sex terrible (I can't be the only person who thinks that silent sex is complete turn-off?), but I felt used when he didn't text me after, even though I was totally put off and not attracted to him in the slightest (blame it on the oxytocin). Few hours in however, & I stopped givin a sh*t  kudos




There’s nothing wrong with putting sex on the back burner. Good For You!! I’ve been dating a really nice girl for two months now and we’ve abstained from sex. It’s actually really nice and I don’t want her to feel she owes me anything like that. Previous relationships always started that way, so it’s a nice change. Sure this new girl and I go a little too far sometimes, but we shut things down before it goes too far. Then we talk abut it. Plus I get to honestly report back to my mother that “Yes, Mom. I’m still being a gentleman.” Cause Mom was all up in my azz about that after I started dating again.

I talked on the phone with this girl I’m dating for nearly 3 hours last night and I can’t hardly remember what we talked about, but it was great and I have to ask myself if sex could ruin that at this stage. I find myself not wanting sex from anyone besides this new girl, but at the same time being ok with not trying to seal the deal with her via sex. After experiencing that for the first time, I’m really glad we having gone there yet. First time for everything. Seems like waiting can be a great idea. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

JBTX said:


> There’s nothing wrong with putting sex on the back burner. Good For You!! I’ve been dating a really nice girl for two months now and we’ve abstained from sex. It’s actually really nice and I don’t want her to feel she owes me anything like that. Previous relationships always started that way, so it’s a nice change. Sure this new girl and I go a little too far sometimes, but we shut things down before it goes too far. Then we talk abut it. Plus I get to honestly report back to my mother that “Yes, Mom. I’m still being a gentleman.” Cause Mom was all up in my azz about that after I started dating again.
> 
> I talked on the phone with this girl I’m dating for nearly 3 hours last night and I can’t hardly remember what we talked about, but it was great and I have to ask myself if sex could ruin that at this stage. I find myself not wanting sex from anyone besides this new girl, but at the same time being ok with not trying to seal the deal with her via sex. After experiencing that for the first time, I’m really glad we having gone there yet. First time for everything. Seems like waiting can be a great idea.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is a great idea, it makes such a difference to the relationship. You spend more time actually getting to know each other and communicating. 
My advise, keep to kissing, hand holding, cuddling etc. Any more and you will find it hard to stop.


----------



## Louise McCann

GUYS.OMG UPDATE.

So Mr 19 year old wanker who rejected me reached out to me that he didnt know what to do & that he's still interested. (I blocked him) HAHAHAH I overreacted after all. Love u guys


----------



## Louise McCann

JBTX said:


> There’s nothing wrong with putting sex on the back burner. Good For You!! I’ve been dating a really nice girl for two months now and we’ve abstained from sex. It’s actually really nice and I don’t want her to feel she owes me anything like that. Previous relationships always started that way, so it’s a nice change. Sure this new girl and I go a little too far sometimes, but we shut things down before it goes too far. Then we talk abut it. Plus I get to honestly report back to my mother that “Yes, Mom. I’m still being a gentleman.” Cause Mom was all up in my azz about that after I started dating again.
> 
> I talked on the phone with this girl I’m dating for nearly 3 hours last night and I can’t hardly remember what we talked about, but it was great and I have to ask myself if sex could ruin that at this stage. I find myself not wanting sex from anyone besides this new girl, but at the same time being ok with not trying to seal the deal with her via sex. After experiencing that for the first time, I’m really glad we having gone there yet. First time for everything. Seems like waiting can be a great idea.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That honestly sounds so cute, like a little love story. I am rooting for you guys! Though it seems as though it is so rare to find quality men who would be willing to date a woman without her putting out within the first few weeks. I suppose sex isn't always the be all and end all.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I haven't read the entire thread, but maybe in real life he wasn't attracted to you? If all he has to do to get laid is send a video of him jacking off and you go running to get laid, he's clearly a Chad with many women at his disposal readily available, maybe he just wasn't feeling it with you? It doesn't always work out.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I haven't read the entire thread, but maybe in real life he wasn't attracted to you? If all he has to do to get laid is send a video of him jacking off and you go running to get laid, he's clearly a Chad with many women at his disposal readily available, maybe he just wasn't feeling it with you? It doesn't always work out.


I thought so too & that he wasn't even trying to flirt with me at all. I felt really uncomfortable when I was there. 

He texted me back wanting to continue speaking and apologised because he was tired & didn't know what to do. & how badly he wanted to kiss me. 

So the folks here were right, he's a little boy who faps all day & just didn't know how to react to a LIVE woman. At least I learnt to deal with being rejected & that 19 year olds are out of bounds


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I'm only 40, so not that old, but it's hard for me to understand that this is where male/female interactions are at now. Take a video of yourself jacking off and a woman just comes over for sex with a total stranger? I wouldn't lend a stranger $5.00 or the keys to my car. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur and still hold women on a pedestal, that chivalry and near veneration of women was built into men of my generation (I think we were the last generation like that) that I'm still shocked at things like this. When I divorce i will NOT fit into this new dating scene at all. I couldn't have sex with someone I wasn't at the very least well acquainted with and cared about.

To each their own, but stuff like this makes me sad for some reason. If this is really what it's like, I would rather bow out and live alone 100%.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I'm only 40, so not that old, but it's hard for me to understand that this is where male/female interactions are at now. Take a video of yourself jacking off and a woman just comes over for sex with a total stranger? I wouldn't lend a stranger $5.00 or the keys to my car. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur and still hold women on a pedestal, that chivalry and near veneration of women was built into men of my generation (I think we were the last generation like that) that I'm still shocked at things like this. When I divorce i will NOT fit into this new dating scene at all. I couldn't have sex with someone I wasn't at the very least well acquainted with and cared about.
> 
> To each their own, but stuff like this makes me sad for some reason. If this is really what it's like, I would rather bow out and live alone 100%.


I wouldn't give a stranger my car keys either ? the difference is that guys now fall under the "to date" or "not to date" category. Since this guy was obviously not boyfriend material, I had no desire to go out with him but he's really fit so I thought why not?  Every person I've met has hooked up with a stranger at least once in their lives. 

People are just more open about sex now and with that, the value of sex has definitely gone down.


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> People are just more open about sex now and with that, the value of sex has definitely gone down.


This point of view is sad and, fortunately, not shared by all.

People that don't value sex, don't value themselves or reproduction.

People and their sex are extremely valuable regardless of whether or not they treat themselves like trash.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Louise McCann said:


> I wouldn't give a stranger my car keys either ? the difference is that guys now fall under the "to date" or "not to date" category.


I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?

I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today? 

I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.


----------



## ConanHub

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?
> 
> I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today?
> 
> I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.


This is valid and applies to both sexes. I would be friends with OP but would never take her seriously enough to date. I wouldn't use her for sex either BTW.

I require a woman that values herself and her sex otherwise I wouldn't value myself.

A woman who had learned from bad choices and left it in the past, and by past I mean a lot more than a month or two, is a woman I could take seriously.

Mrs. Conan had a less than stellar history. She walked away from it and started a new history with me.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan had a less than stellar history. She walked away from it and started a new history with me.


Yeah I'm no prude, there's a difference between "youthful indiscretion" and knowingly putting men into the "good enough to **** immediately with zero effort" box, and the "good enough to use for nights out and tease" box. You don't want to be the latter, it's pathetic and beta as ****.

Note to self, if a woman doesn't bang me immediately after meeting up on Tinder, but still reaches out to me to hang out. It means she views me as not attractive enough to pique her sexual interest, but based on my stable career and gregarious personality I'm good enough to potentially settle for if nothing else better comes along. So if a woman won't screw me immediately, it means ghost her.

Dating is going to be weird as hell for me.


----------



## Louise McCann

I appreciate your opinions but we can agree to disagree  I get why a "to date" guy might feel offended but as of now, I shudder at the idea of dating and will turn down any men who are interested. If someone doesn't take me seriously because I've hooked up with guys on tinder during a time that I was emotionally unavailable and not looking to date, then that is upon him and it would never work out anyway. I prefer non-judgemental open-minded men.

When the time comes and I feel ready, I wouldn't indulge in no-strings-attached sex as I would instead be craving a meaningful emotional connection. As of now I'm young, single and hurt so what's the point in actively looking for quality men? I have loads of time to experiment and make mistakes.

If you were going through a bad breakup and feeling vulnerable, but a super sexy woman offers you sex and you comply, does that make you someone who doesn't value sex? Would it be fair for other women to reject you in the future because sometime in your life, you caved in to your sexual desires? Man times sure have changed.


----------



## EleGirl

Louise McCann said:


> I wouldn't give a stranger my car keys either ? the difference is that guys now fall under the "to date" or "not to date" category. Since this guy was obviously not boyfriend material, I had no desire to go out with him but he's really fit so I thought why not?  Every person I've met has hooked up with a stranger at least once in their lives.
> 
> *People are just more open about sex now and with that, the value of sex has definitely gone down*.


This is a broad statement that is easily proven wrong. There are many people, maybe even the majority who would disagree with is and do not live their sex lives based on this.

It is you who is more 'open' about sex and does not value sex. Always only speak for yourself. Since sex involves your time, your body your health, your safety, and your emotions... it means that you do not value yourself. Apparently sex has enough value to you that you are willing to put your wellbeing at risk for something that you don't value (sex). 

As someone else said, why would a any emotionally healthy man want to date a woman who does this? I'm not a prude when it comes to sex. But I do believe in valuing oneself.


----------



## Louise McCann

EleGirl said:


> This is a broad statement that is easily proven wrong. There are many people, maybe even the majority who would disagree with is and do not live their sex lives based on this.
> 
> It is you who is more 'open' about sex and does not value sex. Always only speak for yourself. Since sex involves your time, your body your health, your safety, and your emotions... it means that you do not value yourself. Apparently sex has enough value to you that you are willing to put your wellbeing at risk for something that you don't value (sex).
> 
> As someone else said, why would a any emotionally healthy man want to date a woman who does this? I'm not a prude when it comes to sex. But I do believe in valuing oneself.


Maybe you misunderstood, what I was trying to say that sex outside of marriage is much less of a taboo than it was a long time ago, and more people are becoming open to the idea of hooking up. I never said more people are open than not.

Hmm fair play but why would I now want to date an emotionally healthy man or any man for that matter? I myself am anything but emotionally healthy. Why would any sane person want to date a single mother in university who isn't even legally divorced yet? I have time to rediscover myself and work through my issues, whether sexual or not.

When the time is right, I know I will find a good guy who loves me for me, who doesn't judge me for my past actions in the face of adversity. Nobody has a perfect track record, and if you do, that doesn't make you a better person or more valuable to a man. To each his own, if he can't accept my past then to me he is an uptight prude. Also, is it normal to share the minute details of your sexual history to your partner? I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.


----------



## Blondilocks

Meh, I''ll cut you some slack. You don't want to date. You were horny so you went to the site that specializes in horny and made a hook-up. Unfortunately (or fortunately), junior pulled a bait and switch on you. Don't let it mess with your mind. You knew you weren't going to Tiffany's in the first place so don't let the Wal-Mart goods bog you down.


----------



## alexm

ConanHub said:


> I recently had a woman friend get invited to a man's house where they even took a bath together and he would not put the moves on her.


Wait.

Whaaaaat?


----------



## Louise McCann

Blondilocks said:


> Meh, I''ll cut you some slack. You don't want to date. You were horny so you went to the site that specializes in horny and made a hook-up. Unfortunately (or fortunately), junior pulled a bait and switch on you. Don't let it mess with your mind. You knew you weren't going to Tiffany's in the first place so don't let the Wal-Mart goods bog you down.


Thanks, love. Nah I feel okay about it because Junior still wants to hang out so now I get to do the rejecting lol. An eye for an eye!


----------



## ConanHub

alexm said:


> Wait.
> 
> Whaaaaat?


Unreal.

A woman, I invite to my house, gets naked in my tub and that tub is getting christened!!


----------



## alexm

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?
> 
> I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today?
> 
> I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.


OMG, this. This is what's wrong with kids (lol) these days. No ****ing idea what they're doing. "But it's our generation, you just don't understand!"

Yeah. You'll understand when you're 40, trust me. Things don't ever actually change. You just think they do when you're 24 and making up the rules as you go along (or listening to your peers tell you what the rules are).

I had the same mindset when I was that age. Older people always said "you'll see". They were right.


----------



## Louise McCann

ConanHub said:


> alexm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.
> 
> Whaaaaat?
> 
> 
> 
> Unreal.
> 
> A woman, I invite to my house, gets naked in my tub and that tub is getting christened!!
Click to expand...

My thoughts are he was either gay or her naked body was out of shape. Or he had ED


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> My thoughts are he was either gay or her naked body was out of shape. Or he had ED


He is definitely not gay, she was not a model but very fit(martial arts and hiking), the ED angle could be.


----------



## Louise McCann

alexm said:


> marriageontherocks2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?
> 
> I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today?
> 
> I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, this. This is what's wrong with kids (lol) these days. No ****ing idea what they're doing. "But it's our generation, you just don't understand!"
> 
> Yeah. You'll understand when you're 40, trust me. Things don't ever actually change. You just think they do when you're 24 and making up the rules as you go along (or listening to your peers tell you what the rules are).
> 
> I had the same mindset when I was that age. Older people always said "you'll see". They were right.
Click to expand...

You may be right based on the assumption that I am actively looking for a man to date xD xD 

The way I see it, when I finally am at peace with myself in a couple years, any guy should be so lucky to find a woman who loves and knows damn well how to please her man


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I think with you having the mindset of "there are men to date" and "men to ****" and the "men to date" don't qualify for sexual excitement is basically Alpha ****s, beta bux, and men are on to that dynamic big time. The only men you will find to "date" will be thirsty, desperate, low confidence losers and not quality men. Men who are OK with their GF pretending to be a good girl, while she's given her best sexual effort to strangers, are not going to be men you want long term. Quality men will see through the game and not have anything to do with you. They'll move on to a higher caliber woman.

IMO this entire event would make you not marriage material. If all it takes for my woman to open her legs is a guy jacking off on video, odds are once kids come, and the mundane day-to-day starts, she'll be back on Tinder looking at 19 year old jack off videos and "hooking up".


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I think with you having the mindset of "there are men to date" and "men to ****" and the "men to date" don't qualify for sexual excitement is basically Alpha ****s, beta bux, and men are on to that dynamic big time. The only men you will find to "date" will be thirsty, desperate, low confidence losers and not quality men. Men who are OK with their GF pretending to be a good girl, while she's given her best sexual effort to strangers, are not going to be men you want long term. Quality men will see through the game and not have anything to do with you. They'll move on to a higher caliber woman.
> 
> IMO this entire event would make you not marriage material. If all it takes for my woman to open her legs is a guy jacking off on video, odds are once kids come, and the mundane day-to-day starts, she'll be back on Tinder looking at 19 year old jack off videos and "hooking up".


Wow personal... sorry you feel that way then, man. Aren't you lucky we aren't married then? Are you a republican?

I don't need to pretend to be a good girl, I am who I am, an open book so to speak. Don't assume you have me all figured out. Do you know how many people who are heartbroken seek meaningless sex in an attempt to get over their ex? I wouldn't judge what somebody does during a break up or depression. 

The truth is I had no intention of sleeping with anyone since being single. I have only kissed one guy in all of 8 months. When a super hot guy showed interest, who btw was the first guy I had felt attracted to since my ex, I took the opportunity. Do you know why, apart from feeling hopelessly horny? I wanted to get OVER my ex. I still see him everywhere. I didn't want the last guy to be inside me to be HIM. IMO, you are quite square and close-minded. 

Also, I have no problem attracting men thank you very much. Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. Good guys too, sucessful, educated, down to earth. Haven't you heard that love is blind? Or that women are crazy but men are stupid. This applies. Men will ignore the red flags especially when infatuated. I'm far from ugly or boring soooo...it's not that hard.

Am I marriage material? Probably not, at least not for now while I'm unstable. But one thing I do know, is that I am fiercely loyal and would never cheat. I have a kid too so I know what mundane day-to-day life feels like, I rarely ever go out or drink or meet friends. Sorry if your ex wife cheated on you


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Louise McCann said:


> Wow personal... sorry you feel that way then, man. Aren't you lucky we aren't married then? Are you a republican?
> 
> I don't need to pretend to be a good girl, I am who I am, an open book so to speak. Don't assume you have me all figured out. Do you know how many people who are heartbroken seek meaningless sex in an attempt to get over their ex? I wouldn't judge what somebody does during a break up or depression.
> 
> The truth is I had no intention of sleeping with anyone since being single. I have only kissed one guy in all of 8 months. When a super hot guy showed interest, who btw was the first guy I had felt attracted to since my ex, I took the opportunity. Do you know why, apart from feeling hopelessly horny? I wanted to get OVER my ex. I still see him everywhere. I didn't want the last guy to be inside me to be HIM. IMO, you are quite square and close-minded.
> 
> Also, I have no problem attracting men thank you very much. Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. Good guys too, sucessful, educated, down to earth. Haven't you heard that love is blind? Or that women are crazy but men are stupid. This applies. Men will ignore the red flags especially when infatuated. I'm far from ugly or boring soooo...it's not that hard.
> 
> Am I marriage material? Probably not, at least not for now while I'm unstable. But one thing I do know, is that I am fiercely loyal and would never cheat. I have a kid too so I know what mundane day-to-day life feels like, I rarely ever go out or drink or meet friends. Sorry if your ex wife cheated on you


Nah I get it, I was commenting on the idea of "guys to date" and "guys not to date", that box can be pretty insulting to decent men knowing they've been put in the "guys to date box" which basically translates to "not ****able". Most good men know when women are playing that game. The idea that date-able men should be held on the periphery while you **** better looking men until you get baby fever and "settle" for them, is becoming common knowledge among the "good men" and it's not going to be a good strategy going forward if you want to end up with a decent man.

But again, this whole hook up culture is so foreign to me and seems so empty and sad.


----------



## oldshirt

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?
> 
> I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today?
> 
> I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.




This is where the term - "beta bucks, alpha f#($ " comes from. 

This is why many men are not even trying to be decent and are not even trying to be relationship material.....they don't have to. 

And it's why women who do value themselves and do value relationships have a hard time finding relationship-worthy men who will treat them like more than just a semen receptacle. 

The lower the value of sexuality and relationships, the lower the entire market goes and the lower the bar all the way around.


----------



## NextTimeAround

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I wonder how the "to date" guys feel about having to wine and dine you, buy you things, woo you, and commit to you to receive your love and potentially sex and all the while you'll freely give it away in 5 minutes to the "not to date guys" simply because they may be more attractive or more fit than the "to date guy"?
> 
> I would think eventually this dynamic will lead to the "to date guys" bowing out and realizing they have a bum deal and not committing and playing the role of sucker. Maybe this is why marriage is down record levels for men. Maybe they understand the **** sandwich they're being forced to eat today?
> 
> I know if I dated a woman and she played the role of good girl and hard to get and I later found out she trolled Tinder to bang dudes she didn't know within minutes of seeing a jack off video, I would feel duped and like the person she's pretending to be with me is just a veneer.


I rest my case.


----------



## JBTX

I don’t find the idea of “guys not to date” and “guys to date” checkbox insulting. Seriously... it’s not like I haven’t ever swiped right on Tinder girl because “She Looks like fun”. Sure I have. I mean I’d rather have something more than that, but I’ve been careless before. I’ve had to tell the girl I’m currently seeing about my ****ty history. And she called it a deal breaker and dumped me. And then she came back around and missed me. I think she came back around because I was honest about it. Apparently she accepts that now. 

I’m not saying that “guys not to date” and “she looks like fun” is a good idea. They aren’t good ideas no doubt. I want to stay away from that idea. There’s girl in town for Thanksgiving right now that has blatantly told me we can have some fun. But it’s not a good idea and I know that. So I’m just choosing to not go there. It’s not worth it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> Maybe you misunderstood, what I was trying to say that sex outside of marriage is much less of a taboo than it was a long time ago, and more people are becoming open to the idea of hooking up. I never said more people are open than not.
> 
> Hmm fair play but why would I now want to date an emotionally healthy man or any man for that matter? I myself am anything but emotionally healthy. Why would any sane person want to date a single mother in university who isn't even legally divorced yet? I have time to rediscover myself and work through my issues, whether sexual or not.
> 
> When the time is right, I know I will find a good guy who loves me for me, who doesn't judge me for my past actions in the face of adversity. Nobody has a perfect track record, and if you do, that doesn't make you a better person or more valuable to a man. To each his own, if he can't accept my past then to me he is an uptight prude. Also, is it normal to share the minute details of your sexual history to your partner? I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.


Everyone judges everyone. I would be more worried about an STD before the long term problems of when the men you eventually fall in love with finds out that you have been sleeping with a bunch of randoms off an apps, though that too will probably present it's own set of problems. Maybe you will get lucky and be safe and get a very open minded guy. Your life.


----------



## sokillme

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Yeah I'm no prude, there's a difference between "youthful indiscretion" and knowingly putting men into the "good enough to **** immediately with zero effort" box, and the "good enough to use for nights out and tease" box. You don't want to be the latter, it's pathetic and beta as ****.
> 
> Note to self, if a woman doesn't bang me immediately after meeting up on Tinder, but still reaches out to me to hang out. It means she views me as not attractive enough to pique her sexual interest, but based on my stable career and gregarious personality I'm good enough to potentially settle for if nothing else better comes along. So if a woman won't screw me immediately, it means ghost her.
> 
> Dating is going to be weird as hell for me.


Yeah it's the Madonna, ***** complex. Stay away. Healthy men and women don't do this.


----------



## sokillme

My question is why dosn't anyone think there is a correlation with this culture of sex is nothing more then a swipe left and right and the high level of infidelity now a days? 

I'm sorry but I think the two are definitely related. It's just so obvious. Now yes when people who live this lifestyle get married at first they plan on being faithful, but when things start getting hard or they start getting board, if you just think of sex as just an action that you take on a whim depending if the persons picture is hot or not why would you now see it as something sacred? A ring suddenly make it different? I just don't by it. I suspect what will happen is there will be more and more open relationships. Maybe that is a good thing. I am glad I am not in my 20's now.


----------



## Louise McCann

Haha I find it funny that everyone's jumping the gun and are under the impression that I'm having regular sex with strangers. ONE guy in 8 months, sheesh, sorry I am not a virgin.

If the roles were reversed and I was a man, I bet you nobody would bat an eye. 

Also the "to date" & "not to date" concept isn't too deep. If a guy is date-worthy to me, it means I am extremely attracted to him both sexually and emotionally, while a "to bang" guy would only be hot. If anything, "to date" should be a compliment! I don't date ugly guys. 

For what it's worth, Tinder Junior was smokin'. Gorgeoussss. If any of you were approached by a God-like specimen & turned him/her down just because you have "morals", then damn. You're missing out.

We are all primal beings at our core. If having sex without feelings was so wrong & immoral, then why are we so horny all the time! Surely God would make us hit puberty much later in life. Sacred sex is a human construct. Marriage is so much more than just sex. 

Because I like sex and have had sex with strangers, that means I don't value myself? Or maybe I value myself enough to listen to my urges and treat myself, not giving a damn what other sexually frustrated people think? 

I would much rather date a guy with a promiscuous past but generally an all-round good person, than a self-righteous judgemental virgin ANY day. But to say that I will not find an emotionally healthy men is ruuude. Men aren't all that hard to attract. Most aren't. Don't hate the players, hate the game


----------



## sokillme

I don't really care who you are having sex with. I do know your posts are just a bunch of bravado just like sleeping with this guy would have been. It wouldn't have helped with your real problem. Why not go get some help with the real problem which is the grief and insecurity you feel about the breakup of your marriage. 

Sleeping with these guys are not going to help you with that in the long run. And if you were really so cool about it you wouldn't be posting on here about it anyway. You posted on here because you were feeling insecure, you are really feeling insecure because your marriage broke up, not over some awkward kid. 

Go get some counseling. That is what you need. It's OK to be sad and insecure when your marriage ends but there are healthy ways to deal with it. Tinder dates aren't healthy even if you want to live like Mick Jagger if it's done out of grief and insecurity. It's not going to help you feel better and it's not going to make your sadness go away. Sexual liberation or not.


----------



## Louise McCann

Perhaps our polarizing views towards hooking up is simply due to our age & cultural differences. Over here where I am, everybody has sex. I mean everybody. In fact, it seems as though every girl here has had a threesome or engaged in homosexual sex. In comparison, I am mellow. Maybe the city I'm in is a **** fest, who knows...

People may cringe when they hear this but I am grateful for every hook up I've had in the past. If it weren't for them maybe I would never know how to deepthroat and would be crap in the sack.


----------



## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> I don't really care who you are having sex with. I do know your posts are just a bunch of bravado just like sleeping with this guy would have been. It wouldn't have helped with your real problem. Why not go get some help with the real problem which is the grief and insecurity you feel about the breakup of your marriage.
> 
> Sleeping with these guys are not going to help you with that in the long run. And if you were really so cool about it you wouldn't be posting on here about it anyway. You posted on here because you were feeling insecure, you are really feeling insecure because your marriage broke up, not over some awkward kid.
> 
> Go get some counseling. That is what you need. It's OK to be sad and insecure when your marriage ends but there are healthy ways to deal with it. Tinder dates aren't healthy even if you want to live like Mick Jagger if it's done out of grief and insecurity. It's not going to help you feel better and it's not going to make your sadness go away. Sexual liberation or not.


Yeah that was how I was feeling at the time. I've not even used Tinder since, already given up on sex for now. I am flying home soon for the holidays, so many months of sexual frustration await me. It's fine.

I've been seeing a counsellor since right after STBX left as I wasn't eating, neglecting my then-newborn child and had pretty much given up on life. I still have loads to do, it is a process but I already feel tons better & am honestly just relieved to get my sex drive back.

I do get riled up though when people feel the need to tell me "Oh you won't find a good guy with the way you are." It's not something one would tell another, especially one going through divorce. Also because I strongly disagree and will fight for my case  no ill feelings <3


----------



## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> Yeah that was how I was feeling at the time. I've not even used Tinder since, already given up on sex for now. I am flying home soon for the holidays, so many months of sexual frustration await me. It's fine.
> 
> I've been seeing a counsellor since right after STBX left as I wasn't eating, neglecting my then-newborn child and had pretty much given up on life. I still have loads to do, it is a process but I already feel tons better & am honestly just relieved to get my sex drive back.
> 
> I do get riled up though when people feel the need to tell me "Oh you won't find a good guy with the way you are." It's not something one would tell another, especially one going through divorce. Also because I strongly disagree and will fight for my case  no ill feelings <3


You should start over and say what really going on. It's not about tinder is it, it's about you worried that you are going to be alone right? If it is I am not judging you but I what I said in my first few posts hold true. You will end up feeling more alone if you decided to spend the next year of your life using tinder. You will regret it. 

So it it is why are you so worried they you will end up alone? What is your situation? How old are you how about the kids?


----------



## JBTX

sokillme said:


> You should start over and say what really going on. It's not about tinder is it, it's about you worried that you are going to be alone right? If it is I am not judging you but I what I said in my first few posts hold true. You will end up feeling more alone if you decided to spend the next year of your life using tinder. You will regret it.
> 
> 
> 
> So it it is why are you so worried they you will end up alone? What is your situation? How old are you how about the kids?




I have not picked up on anything that has led me to believe that this woman is worried about being alone. Also she’s 24 years old and from what I gather she has a small child. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> You should start over and say what really going on. It's not about tinder is it, it's about you worried that you are going to be alone right? If it is I am not judging you but I what I said in my first few posts hold true. You will end up feeling more alone if you decided to spend the next year of your life using tinder. You will regret it.
> 
> So it it is why are you so worried they you will end up alone? What is your situation? How old are you how about the kids?


Thanks for asking. I don't know, part of me acknowledges that it isn't hard to find a guy but deep down I believe that my future partner will ultimately walk out on me. 

Also I used to be so naive and assume marriage was a walk in the park, that I had found my soulmate & life was great. After reading so many posts & real life accounts of devastating heartbreak here, I question what the point is anymore. 

Enough about me, how are you guys doing yourselves post-separation/divorce/reconciliation? It's very evident that I haven't lived through as many experiences as you all & am still very immature, that I can admit. 

My child is almost 8 months' old so I've only just been getting used to the challenges of adult life. So far, I am still alive xD


----------



## sandcastle

Louise McCann said:


> My child is almost 8 months' old so I've only just been getting used to the challenges of adult life. So far, I am still alive xD


And THAT child should be the focus of your life.

Time to put the adult panties on and be an adult Parent.



And yes- humans can survive their entire life without sex.


----------



## Louise McCann

I am on campus now having breakfast by myself and it's taking everything in me not to break down in front of everyone here. 

I made the mistake of going through old photos and all the feelings, the love, the hurt, came back RAW. I thought I was healing. Sigh. One of those days.


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> Maybe you misunderstood, what I was trying to say that sex outside of marriage is much less of a taboo than it was a long time ago, and more people are becoming open to the idea of hooking up. I never said more people are open than not.
> 
> Hmm fair play but why would I now want to date an emotionally healthy man or any man for that matter? I myself am anything but emotionally healthy. Why would any sane person want to date a single mother in university who isn't even legally divorced yet? I have time to rediscover myself and work through my issues, whether sexual or not.
> 
> When the time is right, I know I will find a good guy who loves me for me, who doesn't judge me for my past actions in the face of adversity. Nobody has a perfect track record, and if you do, that doesn't make you a better person or more valuable to a man. To each his own, if he can't accept my past then to me he is an uptight prude. Also, is it normal to share the minute details of your sexual history to your partner? I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.


 I think its very sad that you imply that anyone who thinks that having sex with a complete stranger is a bad idea is an uptight prude. 
In my experience its very important that a couple who marry are open and honest about any sexual past. How can you make an informed decision about whether you want to marry unless you know whether they have slept around a lot or have waited till marriage or anything else in between?


----------



## sandcastle

JBTX said:


> I have not picked up on anything that has led me to believe that this woman is worried about being alone. Also she’s 24 years old and from what I gather she has a small child.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Spot on -

Louise , Appears to be the most concerned that she is not wanted and lusted after by every Man on the planet. Or at least the ones that masturbate online shouting her name.

After all- she has the right height and weight and is a more than willing participant for random hookups involving 19 year old , internet mastubating losers .

Forget the 8 month old baby.


----------



## sandcastle

Louise McCann said:


> I am on campus now having breakfast by myself and it's taking everything in me not to break down in front of everyone here.
> 
> I made the mistake of going through old photos and all the feelings, the love, the hurt, came back RAW. I thought I was healing. Sigh. One of those days.


Yep- real life is RAW.

You brought a child into LIFE.

Eat breakfast all by self, get your degree and be a parent to your child.

Be the best parent you can be so you and your baby are proud of YOU.


----------



## Louise McCann

sandcastle said:


> JBTX said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have not picked up on anything that has led me to believe that this woman is worried about being alone. Also she’s 24 years old and from what I gather she has a small child.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spot on -
> 
> Louise , Appears to be the most concerned that she is not wanted and lusted after by every Man on the planet. Or at least the ones that masturbate online shouting her name.
> 
> After all- she has the right height and weight and is a more than willing participant for random hookups involving 19 year old , internet mastubating losers .
> 
> Forget the 8 month old baby.
Click to expand...

"appears to be more concerned". The key word being APPEARS. 

I write ONE post about why a guy turned me down for sex after I showed up (which is now irrelevant considering he tried reaching out to me several times), & you assume that you know what my daily struggles entail. I rarely ever have time for friends, for myself, I am almost always at home. Have YOU had a go at being a young single mum, having to grapple with parenthood, university, heartbreak and depression all at the same time? Yeah, I doubt it!

Putting others down to make yourself feel better is pathetic. Go project your hurt onto something else, leave me the f*ck alone


----------



## Louise McCann

TAM is pretty much only outlet I have where I can pour my true feelings out and actually be heard. There are so many insensitive pricks here, you'd think our struggles and hardship would bring us together but no...some people just LOVE bringing others down. Sad


----------



## sandcastle

Look at the Title of YOUR OP.

And then go re- read YOUR posts .

You have a child. YOU being the only parent( according to YOU) can be more concerned with 19 year old Tinder LOSERS or decide to read your baby a book .


----------



## sandcastle

Louise McCann said:


> TAM is pretty much only outlet I have where I can pour my true feelings out and actually be heard. There are so many insensitive pricks here, you'd think our struggles and hardship would bring us together but no...some people just LOVE bringing others down. Sad


Sorry- 
You are a parent .
No hall pass on THAT.

Hardship?


----------



## Louise McCann

sandcastle said:


> Look at the Title of YOUR OP.
> 
> And then go re- read YOUR posts .
> 
> You have a child. YOU being the only parent( according to YOU) can be more concerned with 19 year old Tinder LOSERS or decide to read your baby a book .


You still don't make any sense. One post is not a reflection of my daily life. As a matter of fact, I do read to her. I am her primary caretaker for God's sake, she's healthy & happy. I must be doing something right. 

You on the other hand come across as a self-entitled condescending high school teenager who gets off by making others feel like crap. Good for you!


----------



## Louise McCann

I sit here, typing with one hand & the other pumping breastmilk. Don't be so quick to judge others. 

Are you a parent? Because if so, I am genuinely worried for your children having to grow up with you as a role model. Learn to have some respect as an example for your children, instead of being that parent who puts down single mums on the internet for your own humour


----------



## 2ntnuf

oldshirt said:


> This is where the term - "beta bucks, alpha f#($ " comes from.
> 
> This is why many men are not even trying to be decent and are not even trying to be relationship material.....they don't have to.
> 
> And it's why women who do value themselves and do value relationships have a hard time finding relationship-worthy men who will treat them like more than just a semen receptacle.
> 
> The lower the value of sexuality and relationships, the lower the entire market goes and the lower the bar all the way around.


I disagree. I think you are shifting blame onto women.


----------



## chillymorn69

You got a rough road ahead of you. Being a single parent and going to school and all the stresses that come along with your situation at you young age must feel overwhelming!

But keep your chin up and keep plugging . Everyday your closer to success. As far as sex and the **** fest you indicate that's the norm nowdays... well it will have to take a back seat for now and for your child sake to be the best parent you can.

I predict if you do turn it down that when you least expect it you will find love.


Best regards


----------



## sandcastle

Tinder exists for a reason-

And every hookup site on the planet.

Free sex on demand and let me choose from the 31 flavors OF THE DAY.


Male or female and every combination thereof-

Totally healthy and progressive !

I'd suggest that every Tinder member be required to take STD tests and post them online.
Porn actors are required to test.


----------



## sandcastle

Louise McCann said:


> I sit here, typing with one hand & the other pumping breastmilk. Don't be so quick to judge others.
> 
> Are you a parent? Because if so, I am genuinely worried for your children having to grow up with you as a role model. Learn to have some respect as an example for your children, instead of being that parent who puts down single mums on the internet for your own humour


Louise-

Knock off the gaslighting re- writing of history/your OP and put the focus on you.

I'm now confused why we needed your physical attributes in your OP?

As in- NO MAN would reject ME.


----------



## Louise McCann

2ntnuf said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is where the term - "beta bucks, alpha f#($ " comes from.
> 
> This is why many men are not even trying to be decent and are not even trying to be relationship material.....they don't have to.
> 
> And it's why women who do value themselves and do value relationships have a hard time finding relationship-worthy men who will treat them like more than just a semen receptacle.
> 
> The lower the value of sexuality and relationships, the lower the entire market goes and the lower the bar all the way around.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think you are shifting blame onto women.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more.



chillymorn69 said:


> You got a rough road ahead of you. Being a single parent and going to school and all the stresses that come along with your situation at you young age must feel overwhelming!
> 
> But keep your chin up and keep plugging . Everyday your closer to success. As far as sex and the **** fest you indicate that's the norm nowdays... well it will have to take a back seat for now and for your child sake to be the best parent you can.
> 
> I predict if you do turn it down that when you least expect it you will find love.
> 
> 
> Best regards


Thanks for the encouragement, sweetie. I agree, my OP was posted a week ago. Since then, I have received my "closure" from Mr. Tinder, slept with someone I knew for the first time in 8 months and am now no longer looking for sex. I did it, I didn't feel any better and some of you were right, the sex can wait. I know better now. I had a momentary lapse of judgement during a difficult time, and was looking for support and advice. Not passive aggressive insults. 

Funny how people form conclusions based on the little things they know. Last I remembered, this is Talk About Marriage, not Talk About Babies. I have the internet or real life professionals to help me with issues like milk supply, latching problems, sleeping problems, baby eczema etc. Not TAM


----------



## 2ntnuf

Louise McCann said:


> TAM is pretty much only outlet I have where I can pour my true feelings out and actually be heard. There are so many insensitive pricks here, you'd think our struggles and hardship would bring us together but no...some people just LOVE bringing others down. Sad


Some folks have motives. It's important for some to be the alpha and have women fall at their feet, so they can do the rejecting. 

I noticed you posted something similar. They simply do it in a manner they have studied, and are trying to practice, and you've learned it through natural reactions from men to your physical appearance. 

TAM has had groups of these folks in the past. The techniques are similar between two of these programs. They take you by surprise when it's first encountered, but there is s clear pattern and you can see it here with a few of these guys. 

It will become clear to you. I'm only telling you this because it's like using your natural attractions to further a goal of theirs and it isn't as honorable as you would think on face value. I'm way too old for you and have no desire to date. However, being old enough to be your father, makes me feel a little protective, even if I don't know you. So, forgive me if I come across as weird or something. 

If you are too wrapped up in things concerning your own life, you can miss what they are doing. This thought makes what I see them doing extremely creepy, and why I don't like those folks who are not naturally leaders very much. Leaders don't try to use women for their bodies, but contract with them openly and then have expectations which aren't hidden.


----------



## Louise McCann

sandcastle said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sit here, typing with one hand & the other pumping breastmilk. Don't be so quick to judge others.
> 
> Are you a parent? Because if so, I am genuinely worried for your children having to grow up with you as a role model. Learn to have some respect as an example for your children, instead of being that parent who puts down single mums on the internet for your own humour
> 
> 
> 
> Louise-
> 
> Knock off the gaslighting re- writing of history/your OP and put the focus on you.
> 
> I'm now confused why we needed your physical attributes in your OP?
> 
> As in- NO MAN would reject ME.
Click to expand...

I am now confused why you seem to care so badly? Are you someone who is all too familiar with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised, you reek of negativity.

Because...I was feeling insecure and unsure of myself? I wanted to know if my looks could have put him off even though he was so keen before. As an anonymous person, I am entitled to sharing whatever I wish to about my life? No harm done as long as I am respectful to others.


----------



## Louise McCann

2ntnuf said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> TAM is pretty much only outlet I have where I can pour my true feelings out and actually be heard. There are so many insensitive pricks here, you'd think our struggles and hardship would bring us together but no...some people just LOVE bringing others down. Sad
> 
> 
> 
> Some folks have motives. It's important for some to be the alpha and have women fall at their feet, so they can do the rejecting.
> 
> I noticed you posted something similar. They simply do it in a manner they have studied, and are trying to practice, and you've learned it through natural reactions from men to your physical appearance.
> 
> TAM has had groups of these folks in the past. The techniques are similar between two of these programs. They take you by surprise when it's first encountered, but there is s clear pattern and you can see it here with a few of these guys.
> 
> It will become clear to you. I'm only telling you this because it's like using your natural attractions to further a goal of theirs and it isn't as honorable as you would think on face value. I'm way too old for you and have no desire to date. However, being old enough to be your father, makes me feel a little protective, even if I don't know you. So, forgive me if I come across as weird or something.
> 
> If you are too wrapped up in things concerning your own life, you can miss what they are doing. This thought makes what I see them doing extremely creepy, and why I don't like those folks who are not naturally leaders very much. Leaders don't try to use women for their bodies, but contract with them openly and then have expectations which aren't hidden.
Click to expand...

Well said. It's apparent you are a very wise person who is able to put your point across objectively without belittling others. You sir are a natural born leader! 

Thanks for your perspective as an older man/father. I could never in a million years discuss this with my dad or mum. Their strict Polish/Asian upbringing means no sex outside of marriage


----------



## Louise McCann

I think my OP missed the mark with a lot of folks here. I will attempt to talk through what really goes on in my head. 

Growing up with strict parents who were very authoritative and would often beat me (until I was 18 years old) left me feeling really bad about myself. However, I have often been praised for my looks. Even though all I saw was an ugly toad, if people were saying nice things, they had to be somewhat right, I thought. Perhaps that's where my need to strive for physical perfection stemmed from. I felt like my only worth was my looks. That was all I had, nothing to offer but my looks. That if I looked pretty, maybe people would like me.

When I was with my STBX, for the first time in my life I felt confident about myself as a person, not just object. However it was probably just a false sense of confidence that vanished the second my STBX walked out the door. 

So now, more insecure and self-deprecating than ever, I thought Hey maybe I still have my looks. Maybe STBX will regret it once he realises he can't get anyone better. Then Mr. Tinder rejected me which led me to second guess myself. Maybe I don't even have my looks to back myself up. Maybe I don't have any good qualities at all. Maybe STBX did himself a favour.


----------



## alexm

Louise McCann said:


> You may be right based on the assumption that I am actively looking for a man to date xD xD
> 
> The way I see it, when I finally am at peace with myself in a couple years, any guy should be so lucky to find a woman who loves and knows damn well how to please her man


Welllll... you're not looking for a man to _date_... 

Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with somebody only. It's your body, your life, your prerogative. In fact, it's pretty mature of you to admit you're not ready for a relationship and that you still aren't completely over your ex.

But, as others have said, you're chasing it, rather than letting it come to you.

It's your ego that's driving this. And the fact that you were turned down, effectively, by some dude is affecting your ego negatively.

Ironically, this isn't a bad thing. You clearly and admittedly tie your self-esteem into your looks, so it's foreign to you that some guy wouldn't jump you - when YOU came to HIM, no less.

The likelihood is that young kid just spends his day whacking it to porn and got freaked out when you showed up at his door step - IRL! OMG!

But, what if he actually just thought "This is too easy. Meh."

What if HE was expecting YOU to jump him? Maybe he's used to that.

What IF - he just didn't find you attractive IRL?

If it's the latter, consider it a wake-up call. Just because you're "hot" doesn't mean EVERYBODY is automatically sexually attracted to you.

And not only that - even if he DID consider you "hot", maybe the clear and glaring lack of self-confidence was what turned him off. Not desperation, per se (but maybe that, as well) - just the general aura of not having it together.


----------



## 2ntnuf

A good education, a good job, and some activities outside of dating will help you to accomplish feeling like you deserve better treatment. Read some books on boundaries and figure out what you want your life to look like. Find out the things you enjoy doing by trying different things. Get your education and a good job. Don't let these things control your life. Take care of your baby, your education, and continue going to counseling. These things will all help you to figure out who you are and what you want. Don't expect it to come to you. You have to be active and try things......success and failure are a part of life lessons. 

Do your best not to make huge mistakes. We have all made them. You have blocked your ability to learn by having a child at such a young age, but it will help you mature faster, if you take I seriously and take care of your responsibilities. Stay off of TAM as much as you can and take care of your life, education, and little family. You and your child are a family. Make it a great one. You are intelligent and ambitious. Use those to make a great life and give yourself and your child the happiness you deserve. Respect yourself. You have lots of responsibilities and you are doing okay. If you get addicted to this place, you will forget to take care of life's responsibilities.


----------



## Blondilocks

I can pretty much guarantee that if the OP's name was Louis, the majority of the posts on this thread would read entirely differently.


----------



## sandcastle

2ntnuf said:


> You have blocked your ability to learn by having a child at such a young age,



She has an 8 month old child and is 24.

She has "blocked her ability to learn by having a child at such a young age"

Say what?

Pay no attention to the IVY League women who spit out babies at 19 and managed to get PHd's in their field.
Ya know- waaaaay back in the day before Tinder and 
Rando hookups with potential life ending Std's.

Like in 1940?


----------



## sandcastle

Louise McCann said:


> I am now confused why you seem to care so badly? s.


Care so badly? Nope.

Care enough to post exactly as at least 15 other posters have.

One person is counting on you.
Exactly one .
You can do this!


----------



## alexm

Blondilocks said:


> I can pretty much guarantee that if the OP's name was Louis, the majority of the posts on this thread would read entirely differently.


I completely disagree. Maybe outside of TAM, or amongst a younger audience, or in a certain demographic. But not here.

Personally, I don't think she's done anything wrong whatsoever - minus the one glaring fact that she tied all of this into her looks and her self-worth.

That is where the negativity in some of the replies comes from, IMO. It's not that she wanted sex, after going without for 8 months. Honestly, that's impressive. I wouldn't have lasted that long.

What it IS, rightly or wrongly, is that her OP was about her getting turned down, despite being so, so hot and petite and fit, and OMG how could THAT happen when I look this way? Welcome to real life. It's not just about looks. Whether you think so or not, you need MORE than that, even, apparently, for hook-ups.

While it's highly likely that the 19 year old kid just didn't have his **** together, it's also entirely possible that he saw a hot woman who was desperate, or maybe a bit of a mess, and didn't want to go there.

Others have rightfully pointed out that, despite what she looks like, nobody should tie their self-worth into just that. Woman OR man.

There's also the fact that pretty much everybody contributing to this thread is far older than 24, and most of us have "been there, done that". It's not that we don't get the age thing - far from it, IMHO. Things weren't that different when I was 24. Definitely not the attitudes towards hook-ups and the like.

At the end of the day, this entire thread is about someone who believes their self-worth is tied into somebody else. Either through marriage or through sex. She had a good run of never being rejected, and now it's happened a couple of times, and she blames herself and is searching for reasons why.


----------



## sandcastle

sandcastle said:


> She has an 8 month old child and is 24.
> 
> She has "blocked her ability to learn by having a child at such a young age"
> 
> Say what?
> 
> Pay no attention to the IVY League women who spit out babies at 19 and managed to get PHd's in their field.
> Ya know- waaaaay back in the day before Tinder and
> Rando hookups with potential life ending Std's.
> 
> Like in 1940?



Oops! Forget about those MD's , JD's and rocket scientists who also attended non Ivy League schlubs like Stanford, Cal and The rest of the UC franchise.

Oxford.?
Any young mothers graduate from that institution of higher learning young and with child or child born?


----------



## Louise McCann

alexm said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right based on the assumption that I am actively looking for a man to date xD xD
> 
> The way I see it, when I finally am at peace with myself in a couple years, any guy should be so lucky to find a woman who loves and knows damn well how to please her man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welllll... you're not looking for a man to _date_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with somebody only. It's your body, your life, your prerogative. In fact, it's pretty mature of you to admit you're not ready for a relationship and that you still aren't completely over your ex.
> 
> But, as others have said, you're chasing it, rather than letting it come to you.
> 
> It's your ego that's driving this. And the fact that you were turned down, effectively, by some dude is affecting your ego negatively.
> 
> Ironically, this isn't a bad thing. You clearly and admittedly tie your self-esteem into your looks, so it's foreign to you that some guy wouldn't jump you - when YOU came to HIM, no less.
> 
> The likelihood is that young kid just spends his day whacking it to porn and got freaked out when you showed up at his door step - IRL! OMG!
> 
> But, what if he actually just thought "This is too easy. Meh."
> 
> What if HE was expecting YOU to jump him? Maybe he's used to that.
> 
> What IF - he just didn't find you attractive IRL?
> 
> If it's the latter, consider it a wake-up call. Just because you're "hot" doesn't mean EVERYBODY is automatically sexually attracted to you.
> 
> And not only that - even if he DID consider you "hot", maybe the clear and glaring lack of self-confidence was what turned him off. Not desperation, per se (but maybe that, as well) - just the general aura of not having it together.
Click to expand...

Lol yup, it has to be one of those reasons. He's a weirdo who now says he wished he had "kissed & hugged" me, pffft. From sexual videos to hugging? After I blocked him, he still tried to ask me if I wanted to continue speaking. Oh one more thing, he follows some Instagram account that supplies fake GBP notes. If that doesn't scream trainwreck, I don't know what does. 

I think it's learning to not let others' opinion of me determine how I view myself. My self-worth is dependent on how others perceive me. If they like me, I feel great; if they don't, I get really hurt. This mindset of mine is unhealthy and needs to change.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> I can pretty much guarantee that if the OP's name was Louis, the majority of the posts on this thread would read entirely differently.


Mine would be different but not by much.

Only in so far as men and women are certainly different and for me to ignore it is asinine.

I guarantee that if the poster was a newly divorced, single dad with full custody of a baby, I would definitely tell him to leave the hookup culture for good, focus on improving himself and making a good life for his baby.

As far as sex and romance? That should be on the backburner and he shouldn't even consider a woman who wasn't solid and a potential good mother.

I would actually be harder on him than I have been to OP.

Children are a very big deal to me.

Thread jack complete.


----------



## Louise McCann

2ntnuf said:


> Do your best not to make huge mistakes. We have all made them. You have blocked your ability to learn by having a child at such a young age, but it will help you mature faster, if you take I seriously and take care of your responsibilities. Stay off of TAM as much as you can and take care of your life, education, and little family. You and your child are a family. Make it a great one. You are intelligent and ambitious. Use those to make a great life and give yourself and your child the happiness you deserve. Respect yourself. You have lots of responsibilities and you are doing okay. If you get addicted to this place, you will forget to take care of life's responsibilities.


I am grateful for your optimism and spurring me on. Do you have any good books to recommend? Especially with letting someone go and building upon your self-esteem. 

Yeah not gonna lie, this forum is addictive. I also don't have a lot of friends and personally I don't think they would give great advice anyway. They're all my age or younger. You guys have lived through real hardships and are a lot more informed, so therefore I value your insights x10000. TAM is like my virtual friend... 

Also my princess is sleeping (will take this down soon)


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> I am on campus now having breakfast by myself and it's taking everything in me not to break down in front of everyone here.
> 
> I made the mistake of going through old photos and all the feelings, the love, the hurt, came back RAW. I thought I was healing. Sigh. One of those days.


These things take time. I still feel a sadness about my 25 year marriage that ended over 16 years ago, even though I am married to an amazing man now and much happier.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

High quality men won't date w single mom who was basically a Tinder slag for the past couple years. If your plan is just to bang "hot guys" and then sucker a dude later on into thinking that you're a high quality woman, I think it's going to be a tough road for you. Men are not as stupid as you think. You'll get men to bang you sure, even good looking men but loving you, committing to you, will be entirely different. The high quality men will be committing to high quality women, it's just how it works.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> High quality men won't date w single mom who was basically a Tinder slag for the past couple years. If your plan is just to bang "hot guys" and then sucker a dude later on into thinking that you're a high quality woman, I think it's going to be a tough road for you. Men are not as stupid as you think. You'll get men to bang you sure, even good looking men but loving you, committing to you, will be entirely different. The high quality men will be committing to high quality women, it's just how it works.


Have you been listening to a word that I have said? I, Louise McCann, am not looking for a relationship right now. Not now. Not soon. Not for a long time. Just NO. *face palm*

Err the past couple of years I was with my STBX? Tinder what?

If I wanted to go seek "quality men" to date, I'd be doing just that, don't you think? I am not a teenager who thinks that hooking up will lead me to finding a boyfriend. I've had doctors, engineers, lawyers ask me out whom I have all rejected! I DON'T CARE ABOUT DATING!!! I am 24 and have all the time in the world to work on myself and feel wholesome again. Then MAYBE, I might just think about dating. 

Funny how I recall in one thread, a man recounted how he had been cheated & pooped on by his wife. And SO MANY people were rooting for him to get laid and try other women. Not ONE mention of "oh you will only attract low quality women, you are not marriage material." Pfft, okay Grandpa.

Double standards. 
Sexist sexist sexist. 

I had been 100000% loyal to STBX.
I worked 6 days a week whilst pregnant & would pack lunch daily to save some coins. 
I've only drank on 4 occasions this year. 
I rarely leave the house for fun.
My attendance at uni has been 100%.
I've had a great run with my lab assessments.
I haven't stepped foot into a club in almost 2 years. 

So if you think I am some repulsive "slag" because I had intended to hook up with a very attractive young man on Tinder, without it actually transpiring, then you are an uptight prude. And/or sexist. 

In fact I'll break it down to all the self-righteous people who believe themselves to be superior and high-quality... your partners have probably done some nasty sh*t and never even told you. In fact, while you both make love, he/she is probably fantasizing about that sexy ONS from their past.


----------



## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I am on campus now having breakfast by myself and it's taking everything in me not to break down in front of everyone here.
> 
> I made the mistake of going through old photos and all the feelings, the love, the hurt, came back RAW. I thought I was healing. Sigh. One of those days.


Yeah probably not the best idea it takes time to get over heartbreak. Relationships are hard work, it's true. But there are still go people out there. The thing I have learned is most of what determines a good relationship is who you pick. You need to be selective. The other poster is right though, think about your kid right now. At least you know in one you will never be alone again. That's nice.

Take it slow and talk to some people. Post on here, that is what we do here we try to help people.


----------



## Louise McCann

May I add, this is a marriage forum. Evidently, all of us are going/have gone through the breakdown of a marriage. What does that say? That we are all low-quality people who could only land low-quality partners? 

What is "quality"? That handsome man who seems too good to be true, kind, smart, funny, family oriented? Who chooses a "high quality" chaste woman with barely any sexual experience. For all we know, their sex lives start dwindling and said handsome man looks for better sex elsewhere or straight up divorces her. You never know who is "quality" anymore, to each his own! People change over the years too.

Nobody is better than anybody else. We are all human with real thoughts, feelings, experiences, fears... What you perceive to be a quality man would likely differ from what I perceive him to be.


----------



## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am on campus now having breakfast by myself and it's taking everything in me not to break down in front of everyone here.
> 
> I made the mistake of going through old photos and all the feelings, the love, the hurt, came back RAW. I thought I was healing. Sigh. One of those days.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah probably not the best idea it takes time to get over heartbreak. Relationships are hard work, it's true. But there are still go people out there. The thing I have learned is most of what determines a good relationship is who you pick. You need to be selective. The other poster is right though, think about your kid right now. At least you know in one you will never be alone again. That's nice.
> 
> Take it slow and talk to some people. Post on here, that is what we do here we try to help people.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I lost count of how many times I've had to say that I am not looking to date or have sex for the time being. I still keep getting "quality man" shoved down my throat. Dear god xD ?


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Women own the sexual marketplace, the fatest ugliest woman can get laid in 10 minutes on Tinder. But men own the relationship and marriage market place. When men get to know a woman, and a relationship develops, if it looks like she's pulling a bait and switch or looking to lock him down for stability and a baby because she's entering late 20's and 30's. And he knows 5 years ago she wanted nothing to do with him, and only wanted sex with "hot guys". It's going to be a lot more difficult to find someone to commit to that when the time comes. Men are on to this game women are playing and it's why you see a record low number of marriages today. Men don't find these type of women good bets and worth committing to.

As for everyone having 3-somes, homosexual sex, I think it's the company you keep. By all measure millennials are having less sex today, and less wild sex than the previous 2 generations of the same age.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Women own the sexual marketplace, the fatest ugliest woman can get laid in 10 minutes on Tinder. But men own the relationship and marriage market place. When men get to know a woman, and a relationship develops, if it looks like she's pulling a bait and switch or looking to lock him down for stability and a baby because she's entering late 20's and 30's. And he knows 5 years ago she wanted nothing to do with him, and only wanted sex with "hot guys". It's going to be a lot more difficult to find someone to commit to that when the time comes. Men are on to this game women are playing and it's why you see a record low number of marriages today. Men don't find these type of women good bets and worth committing to.
> 
> As for everyone having 3-somes, homosexual sex, I think it's the company you keep. By all measure millennials are having less sex today, and less wild sex than the previous 2 generations of the same age.


Oh really? Where did you get these stats from, Google? That is a bold statement to make. One person can't speak on behalf of the entire male population. 

I too shall make a bold claim. My sister had a promiscuous past during her teen years, and in fact was seeing two guys at the same time, one of whom is her current husband of 7 years. He is one of the most genuine kind-hearted people I have had the pleasure of knowing. He is really the big brother I never had. He has a good job too and is good looking. He adores my sister to pieces and doesn't care about her past and they are extremely happy. So based one this one man, I shall announce that all men don't care about one's sexual history. You see how ridiculous this sounds? & if they did care, well I wouldn't want to date them either.

As we know, most of the world population reside in third world countries. Do you honestly think these people took part in some extensive study, to prove that millenials are having worse sex? It's about quality not quantity too. Nobody and I mean nobody, knows what goes on behind closed doors.


----------



## NextTimeAround

sandcastle said:


> Oops! Forget about those MD's , JD's and rocket scientists who also attended non Ivy League schlubs like Stanford, Cal and The rest of the UC franchise.
> 
> Oxford.?
> Any young mothers graduate from that institution of higher learning young and with child or child born?


yeah, who are these superwomen that you speak of? Send us some links to their bios.


----------



## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> sandcastle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oops! Forget about those MD's , JD's and rocket scientists who also attended non Ivy League schlubs like Stanford, Cal and The rest of the UC franchise.
> 
> Oxford.?
> Any young mothers graduate from that institution of higher learning young and with child or child born?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, who are these superwomen that you speak of? Send us some links to their bios.
Click to expand...

Haha he thinks it's all a walk in the park


----------



## NextTimeAround

Louise McCann said:


> Oh really? Where did you get these stats from, Google? That is a bold statement to make. One person can't speak on behalf of the entire male population.
> 
> *As we know, most of the world population reside in third world countries. Do you honestly think these people took part in some extensive study, to prove that millenials are having worse sex?* It's about quality not quantity too. Nobody and I mean nobody, knows what goes on behind closed doors.


Do you really want to compare your life to that of the average woman in the 3rd World? It seems to me that most of them are either celibate when they are single or working in the sex trade. (woo-hoo, lots of sex there) or married to and having sex with their husband ....... while the husband may not assume the same kind / level of loyalty.

TBH, I wouldn't want third world lifestyles / choices to skew the results.


----------



## sokillme

Louise McCann said:


> I think my OP missed the mark with a lot of folks here. I will attempt to talk through what really goes on in my head.
> 
> Growing up with strict parents who were very authoritative and would often beat me (until I was 18 years old) left me feeling really bad about myself. However, I have often been praised for my looks. Even though all I saw was an ugly toad, if people were saying nice things, they had to be somewhat right, I thought. Perhaps that's where my need to strive for physical perfection stemmed from. I felt like my only worth was my looks. That was all I had, nothing to offer but my looks. That if I looked pretty, maybe people would like me.
> 
> When I was with my STBX, for the first time in my life I felt confident about myself as a person, not just object. However it was probably just a false sense of confidence that vanished the second my STBX walked out the door.
> 
> So now, more insecure and self-deprecating than ever, I thought Hey maybe I still have my looks. Maybe STBX will regret it once he realises he can't get anyone better. Then Mr. Tinder rejected me which led me to second guess myself. Maybe I don't even have my looks to back myself up. Maybe I don't have any good qualities at all. Maybe STBX did himself a favour.


I suspected as much. The thing about getting your self worth from your looks is it's a trap. It is particularly dangerous for women because society judges them so much on appearance Men and women both judge. The problem is even if you are a beautiful movies star eventually looks fade. Also you may attract men with them but eventually the most beautiful person just becomes that person you see every day who is beautiful once you are together for a long time. Now I am not saying don't take pride in your looks but don't make them the determining factor of you worth. Besides that if you do you end up seeming vapid and shallow. If you are you are only going to attract vapid and shallow men. 

Here is the thing you are not going to have a good relationship if you use it to try to complete what is missing in you. You are also not going to be a good partner. I was trying to warn you about using sex to get a self esteem boost. Now you see that it really didn't help. Hopefully that decision won't bite you in the ass. I hope the guy isn't a part of your inner cycle as that could be awkward to any new guy you meet in the future. But you can worry about that when the time comes.

For now you need to deal with some of your stuff. If I were you I would use this time just like going to school but on relationships and your psyche. Be preparing to do better next time. One way is to read a lot of books on it. Also books about what your childhood did to you. Being a student you probably can't afford IC, but you can get books and read them, study them, learn from them. 

The thing you have to be careful about is looking to external forces to give you self worth. People who do that make very poor choices, very often they hurt others because they need that fix. They do things that erode and destroy the harmony in their lives. A healthy person will have self esteem from within. Now that doesn't mean you can't have hobbies, friends and healthy things that give you joy, but they can't make you feel complete. Nothing can but yourself. 

You want to know the secret to good self esteem. It sound very corny but there is great dignity in it. Get your self worth from your charier and being a good person. This is the only thing from your birth to your death that you have absoultly full control over. Doing the right thing because it is the right thing really helps you in life. You will make good friends, people will feel safe with you. Eventually as it becomes a pattern in your thinking you will be able to see people who don't have the same pattern and stay away from them. Try that for a while see where it leads you. 

Anyway those are my two cents. You are worth something. It's time for you to stop worrying, do the work for your kid. He needs you.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> And he knows 5 years ago she wanted nothing to do with him, and only wanted sex with "hot guys".


Because "5 years" ago, she would have been heartbroken over her ex & emotionally unavailable to date? I would never judge what someone did during a dark time, years before they had ever met me! Maybe you don't like the idea of it, perhaps you are too insecure or have been screwed over by a woman. It's not about someone's past but it is about the person they grow to become that so attracted us in the first place. It sounds so immature like "Omg 5 years ago you had a ONS? Bye!"


----------



## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really? Where did you get these stats from, Google? That is a bold statement to make. One person can't speak on behalf of the entire male population.
> 
> *As we know, most of the world population reside in third world countries. Do you honestly think these people took part in some extensive study, to prove that millenials are having worse sex?* It's about quality not quantity too. Nobody and I mean nobody, knows what goes on behind closed doors.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to compare your life to that of the average woman in the 3rd World? It seems to me that most of them are either celibate when they are single or working in the sex trade. (woo-hoo, lots of sex there) or married to and having sex with their husband ....... while the husband may not assume the same kind / level of loyalty.
> 
> TBH, I wouldn't want third world lifestyles / choices to skew the results.
Click to expand...

Nah I don't mean it like that, I was challenging his claim that all millenials are having worse sex than their elders. How would one even gather such information? Anyone can make up stats. Every culture is different, everybody is different, which is why I brought up the third world


----------



## marriageontherocks2

https://www.google.ie/search?q=mill...rome..69i57.5524j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The assumption that all millennials are sexually unburdened and having wild 3-somes, homosexual sex, more ONS's is not realistic. Lots of times the company we keep skews our reality. Heroin addicts probably all sit around together thinking everyone does heroin.

Millennials are actually more square and sexually prude than my generation (gen-x).


----------



## Louise McCann

sokillme said:


> I suspected as much. The thing about getting your self worth from your looks is it's a trap. It is particularly dangerous for women because society judges them so much on appearance Men and women both judge. The problem is even if you are a beautiful movies star eventually looks fade. Also you may attract men with them but eventually the most beautiful person just becomes that person you see every day who is beautiful once you are together for a long time. Now I am not saying don't take pride in your looks but don't make them the determining factor of you worth. Besides that if you do you end up seeming vapid and shallow. If you are you are only going to attract vapid and shallow men.
> 
> Here is the thing you are not going to have a good relationship if you use it to try to complete what is missing in you. You are also not going to be a good partner. I was trying to warn you about using sex to get a self esteem boost. Now you see that it really didn't help. Hopefully that decision won't bite you in the ass. I hope the guy isn't a part of your inner cycle as that could be awkward to any new guy you meet in the future. But you can worry about that when the time comes.
> 
> For now you need to deal with some of your stuff. If I were you I would use this time just like going to school but on relationships and your psyche. Be preparing to do better next time. One way is to read a lot of books on it. Also books about what your childhood did to you. Being a student you probably can't afford IC, but you can get books and read them, study them, learn from them.
> 
> The thing you have to be careful about is looking to external forces to give you self worth. People who do that make very poor choices, very often they hurt others because they need that fix. They do things that erode and destroy the harmony in their lives. A healthy person will have self esteem from within. Now that doesn't mean you can't have hobbies, friends and healthy things that give you joy, but they can't make you feel complete. Nothing can but yourself.
> 
> You want to know the secret to good self esteem. It sound very corny but there is great dignity in it. Get your self worth from your charier and being a good person. This is the only thing from your birth to your death that you have absoultly full control over. Doing the right thing because it is the right thing really helps you in life. You will make good friends, people will feel safe with you. Eventually as it becomes a pattern in your thinking you will be able to see people who don't have the same pattern and stay away from them. Try that for a while see where it leads you.
> 
> Anyway those are my two cents. You are worth something. It's time for you to stop worrying, do the work for your kid. He needs you.


Many thanks. Yeah, I am fully aware that I will not make a great partner to anybody now. I am broken and still love my ex. This is why I had made the choice to not date until I am no longer pining for him and can safely say that I feel confident about myself. I am too insecure for a relationship, I thought I had made it clear. 

Lol but apparently many people here feel the need to tell me that I have ruined my chances at finding a quality man and am doomed to eternal loneliness. Haha. I just find it funny. I don't care. I would much rather stay single and heal than jump into the next rebound relationship that presents itself.

I agree that being kind & compassionate to others and contribute positively to the world will definitely help me. I have been trying to do that, give back to charity, volunteer, be respectful and practising empathy as best as I can. I still am far from feeling good about myself but I suppose that takes time. How long, I don't know.

For example, today at uni I had found a credit card that was left behind and returned it to student services immediately. I didn't really feel great about myself though, it's no big deal. I am no Nelson Mandela. I think I just really need to engage in more positive self-talk and change my mindset. Time for cognitive behavioural therapy

I see a therapist on a weekly basis back home, that is paid for by my parents. I am definitely looking forward to going back.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> https://www.google.ie/search?q=mill...rome..69i57.5524j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> The assumption that all millennials are sexually unburdened and having wild 3-somes, homosexual sex, more ONS's is not realistic. Lots of times the company we keep skews our reality. Heroin addicts probably all sit around together thinking everyone does heroin.
> 
> Millennials are actually more square and sexually prude than my generation (gen-x).


Well Hi, I am a millennial and you seem to be a lot more square than me with regards to sex. I am not going to open that link because to me it's bogus. The quality of sex is subjective - not something you can put a number on. Once again, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors...


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Louise McCann said:


> Well Hi, I am a millennial and* you seem to be a lot more square than me with regards to sex*. I am not going to open that link because to me it's bogus. The quality of sex is subjective - not something you can put a number on. Once again, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors...


I'm really not, I have some 3-somes under my belt both FFM and MMF, some ONS's when I was younger. It's pretty well understood that kids from the 70's, 80's, and 90's were several rungs crazier than millennials today. We didn't wear helmets, rarely were at home, our parents didn't helicopter parent us, many parents had no clue where we were or what we were doing from around 8 AM to 3 am, sometimes I was gone for weeks at a time with my Mom barely noticing. 
We just weren't coddled snowflakes. This led to a lot of experimentation, rebelling, and all around fun.

I guess I was mostly in serial monogamous type relationships where I knew the person and we had a relationship while sexually active. I don't care if a woman has a sexual history or is a little ****ty at all. You're missing the point I was making. Some guys in here who were liking my posts get what I'm saying.

There's a difference between experimentation and youthful indiscretion, and putting men into the "men I'll **** box" and "men I'll string along box". because the "men I'll **** box" likely wouldn't commit to you, they likely have a large selection of women to marry and commit to and they're gonna pick the best bet for them. They would likely look for an unattached woman without a child, good career, good family, etc... As a single Mom, you are past the "youthful indiscretion" phase, and by casually ****ing Chad for years and ignoring the "good man" you're setting yourself up for a tough time when you hit 30 and want the "good man" to commit to you. He'll see through it and assume you're "settling" and after 5 years of banging Chad, you'll be an alpha widow and a bad bet for marriage.

You may think this sounds silly, but the word is out and men are finally "getting it", women go after the top 20% of men to ****, then they expect the regular guy, good man, with a good job, solid family, honest with integrity that they've ignored for the past decade to put a ring on their finger. many of those "good men" are not playing that game anymore. Redpill knowledge has been let loose and men will never be the same:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=redpill


----------



## alexm

Louise McCann said:


> Well Hi, I am a millennial and you seem to be a lot more square than me with regards to sex. I am not going to open that link because to me it's bogus. The quality of sex is subjective - not something you can put a number on. Once again, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors...


Lol! (sorry)

Anybody that is older than you currently are is "square". It's just the way it works. Whatever age group you're in at the time is the "right" one, and everybody older is ****ing lame or if they're younger, completely clueless.

I'm sure you thought you were the **** when you were 17, and you'll think you're the **** when you're 35, 50 and 72.

Now stop calling people old, square, or "Grampa"! Your 15 year old cousin thinks _you're_ lame, too.


----------



## ConanHub

Louise McCann said:


> Thank you! I lost count of how many times I've had to say that I am not looking to date or have sex for the time being. I still keep getting "quality man" shoved down my throat. Dear god xD ?


Honestly if you didn't have a child, my advice would be a little different.

Hooking up with sh*theads only impacts your promiscuous ass if you aren't a parent. I say that tongue in cheek. I was a male slvt before I found my wife and became a parent.

Hooking up with idiots does devalue you. Might take you a lifetime to figure it out but not a huge deal to get past a promiscuous life when single.

Your precious child rates higher than ftards treating you like a cum dump. You are MOM! I can't stress the importance of the dignity of that title and how important it is to your child.


----------



## Lila

Louise McCann said:


> Thank you! I lost count of how many times I've had to say that I am not looking to date or have sex for the time being.* I still keep getting "quality man" shoved down my throat. Dear god xD ?*


LOL, some people think in black and white terms where women only desire sex with hot "bad boys" and settle with average joe for financial support and raising babies. The truth is a kaleidoscope of shades of grey, but don't waste your time or breath trying to convince them otherwise.


----------



## 2ntnuf

sandcastle said:


> She has an 8 month old child and is 24.
> 
> She has "blocked her ability to learn by having a child at such a young age"
> 
> Say what?
> 
> Pay no attention to the IVY League women who spit out babies at 19 and managed to get PHd's in their field.
> Ya know- waaaaay back in the day before Tinder and
> Rando hookups with potential life ending Std's.
> 
> Like in 1940?


Sorry, I don't understand you at all.


----------



## Louise McCann

Lila said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I lost count of how many times I've had to say that I am not looking to date or have sex for the time being.* I still keep getting "quality man" shoved down my throat. Dear god xD ?*
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, some people think in black and white terms where women only desire sex with hot "bad boys" and settle with average joe for financial support and raising babies. The truth is a kaleidoscope of shades of grey, but don't waste your time or breath trying to convince them otherwise.
Click to expand...

Hahaha yup, thanks dear. Yes these men here are extremely ignorant and delusional, thinking they got the male brain all figured out. 

If any man is going to feel threatened by a ONS in the past then he is a complete utter loser. A real man doesn't care for the petty details. A real man is compassionate & will see my soul for what it is and love me for me. I know I have a lot to offer, it's about believing in it! At 24, I am completely retired from the party lifestyle or any social events, if anything, I too would like to date a single parent who knows his priorities. 

Men who discriminate against single mums haven't a clue as to what they are talking about and probably aren't even great dads themselves. None of you even understand the sheer level of tenacity & selflessness that is required to be a single mum. It's very easy to Mummy-shame and criticise every little aspect of our parenting but when it comes to men, it's OK to play the role of silly incompetent dad. All that is expected of them is to be a provider. Well that's what I have to be now, BOTH mum & dad. All while still attending Pharmacy school. Single mums are one of the strongest women, don't you dare belittle us. In fact, we are probably more man than you and that is what threatens an insecure man. 

Real men don't care about alpha beta. Is this even a joke? "I'm alpha, you're beta"? Real men don't have to prove anything. This ain't high school. People should not be type-casted. As someone mentioned, there is no black & white.

Didn't even bang the Tinder dude, y'all. I had no intentions of having sex during this difficult time of divorce, but I made an exception for the hottie because he looked like a model & I already wasn't looking for anything serious. I am NOT looking to date and if some guy gets offended by my actions 5 years ago, then in my books, he is retarded?? How narrow-minded can a person be.

If I met a man who I thought was a perfect 10 in every aspect, I would have enough respect for him to not jump into bed until we had established emotional connection...not because he's a beta. But because to me he is worthy of a meaningful time! Also he would respect me enough to not try to seduce me right away, if he had tried to make the moves on me early then he's clearly a f*ckboy.

But the men here who insist otherwise are clearly painfully insecure about where they stand as a man, that the thought of being labelled a BETA is so unbearable, they could never be with a woman like that. Grow up. Stop being so square and judgemental. I hate men like that, it's so petty and feminine. 

None of you know how every man works. "Men don't like single mums" LOL really? You are ONE guy, amongst billions, not my type and I wouldn't touch you with a 10 ft long pole. With my issues aside, I know my potential. I am 24, attractive, in good shape and have a very outgoing personality. Not one guy has expressed disinterest or turned off by the fact that I am a mum. 

Haha so I can be called a slag but the second I call someone out for being a Grandpa, I get shut down? Hypocrite. Anyway to whom it concerns, shut up with your irrelevant "high quality" man theories and having all men figured out. To me, you are anything but a high quality man and the last person I would ever go out with, so therefore your claims are highly unreliable. 

I don't owe it to anyone to prove myself. Many of the women you meet pretend to be a good girl and somebody they are not. I am not that person, I come as I am and I don't have anything to hide. I am an open book and a real man will appreciate my transparency, rather than some sweet pea who puts on a front. I want a smart man with the heart of gold who understands the notion that our actions do not define us as individuals, rather the lessons we learn do.

To me, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a consensual ONS. Especially when one is newly single and going through a rough patch. I've had sex Once in 8 months, with somebody I know personally. Like I said, if I was a man nobody would bat an eye. 

Sex is normal. Sex isn't taboo. It's 2017. If one is convinced that wild sex was more prevalent back in the day, sure whatever man. If that makes you feel better about your age


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I'm only 40, call me grandpa I don't care at all, I enjoy my age, experience, and wisdom. I've also aged like fine wine, I'm emotionally and mentally much healthier, better looking, I'm an executive at my company, I have an MBA from a top 20 business school, I own 2 homes, and just started my own business. I'm doing just fine...

BUT I would say if you're calling me grandpa at 40, you're gonna piss off a lot of the ladies here, most are older than me. 24-40 is also a blink of an eye, before you know it you'll be wrong side of 30 buying wrinkle cream. My wrinkles denote ruggedness and wisdom, unfair? Maybe, but it's the way it is.

The reason I brought anything up is because you're basically reiterating Red Pill verbatim, you just don't understand that you are, and that's OK. What you've said in this thread is basically 100% backing up Red Pill and MGTOW ideology.

As for single mums, it's another man's child that will be living with you and him almost full time. no last minute trips to Miami, he's going in with an insta-family, and a child who will never think of him as his/her Dad. That will attract a lot of nuts with an agenda to try and "save" you, these guys are typically extremely insecure and controlling. it's not that you can't find a quality man, but having another guys kid is a negative for most men looking for a serious relationship and to start their own family. A lot of men who don't have kids don't want to be immediately tied down with children, especially ones that aren't his. That's just a fact, doesn't make me sexist at all to say it.

Same way if i divorced tomorrow the fact that I have the baggage of 3 children, an ex-wife getting money from me would be a negative to a lot of single women without children (the only caveat are women in their 30s desperate for a baby). I would need to be more selective and compromise in some areas. Just the way it is.


----------



## john117

NextTimeAround said:


> yeah, who are these superwomen that you speak of? Send us some links to their bios.


Ehem. Our younger girl was born in the middle of the semester while wifey and I were in grad school and working part time. Her sister was maybe 3 at the time. 

No superwomen here. We both graduated on time, about 4 years for me, 5 for her. We were late 30's too and completed fairly demanding programs. Was it easy? No. But it was fun.


----------



## Louise McCann

john117 said:


> NextTimeAround said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, who are these superwomen that you speak of? Send us some links to their bios.
> 
> 
> 
> Ehem. Our younger girl was born in the middle of the semester while wifey and I were in grad school and working part time. Her sister was maybe 3 at the time.
> 
> No superwomen here. We both graduated on time, about 4 years for me, 5 for her. We were late 30's too and completed fairly demanding programs. Was it easy? No. But it was fun.
Click to expand...

You had each other to work as a team. I am a single mum, it makes all the difference


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I'm only 40, call me grandpa I don't care at all, I enjoy my age, experience, and wisdom. I've also aged like fine wine, I'm emotionally and mentally much healthier, better looking, I'm an executive at my company, I have an MBA from a top 20 business school, I own 2 homes, and just started my own business. I'm doing just fine...
> 
> BUT I would say if you're calling me grandpa at 40, you're gonna piss off a lot of the ladies here, most are older than me. 24-40 is also a blink of an eye, before you know it you'll be wrong side of 30 buying wrinkle cream. My wrinkles denote ruggedness and wisdom, unfair? Maybe, but it's the way it is.
> 
> The reason I brought anything up is because you're basically reiterating Red Pill verbatim, you just don't understand that you are, and that's OK. What you've said in this thread is basically 100% backing up Red Pill and MGTOW ideology.
> 
> As for single mums, it's another man's child that will be living with you and him almost full time. no last minute trips to Miami, he's going in with an insta-family, and a child who will never think of him as his/her Dad. That will attract a lot of nuts with an agenda to try and "save" you, these guys are typically extremely insecure and controlling. it's not that you can't find a quality man, but having another guys kid is a negative for most men looking for a serious relationship and to start their own family. A lot of men who don't have kids don't want to be immediately tied down with children, especially ones that aren't his. That's just a fact, doesn't make me sexist at all to say it.
> 
> Same way if i divorced tomorrow the fact that I have the baggage of 3 children, an ex-wife getting money from me would be a negative to a lot of single women without children (the only caveat are women in their 30s desperate for a baby). I would need to be more selective and compromise in some areas. Just the way it is.


You may be 40 but you give off chauvinistic 70 year old grandpa vibes, as someone who lacks any cultural experiences outside of his own, & truly believes his opinions to be factual. Sir, you have very black-and-white thinking. 

YOU may not be attracted to single mums. You are not the benchmark for what makes a quality man. You have money and a successful career and you think that makes you a quality man, better than everyone else? How ignorant, I feel sorry for you.

I've said this and I'll say it again - your version of "quality" will greatly differ from mine. Why would I want to attract a man who doesn't want to be a father figure to my child but instead prioritises spontaneous trips to the tropics? She would see my future partner as Daddy nonetheless because she doesn't have a dad. I get that single mums aren't everyone's cup of tea, I understand not every man would be comfortable with the concept of that. But to assume that all men are alike makes you ridiculously narrow-minded.

For your posts, you give the impression that you are very conceited and think so highly of yourself as the ideal quality man. & "Oh men don't like single mums". Sorry Grandpa, I don't like egotistical men with very low levels of empathy either.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I would like single moms just fine, if I divorce and decide to start dating again I would likely date a divorced woman with children, because a single woman without children likely wants nothing to do with my baggage, and wouldn't understand that we can't just take off to Utah for a week to ski because I have my kids that week. A woman with kids and an ex will understand my situation a lot better.

I'm not conceited at all, I'm comfortable in my own skin and enjoy where my work has gotten me in life, that's not conceit.

You're not really comprehending what I'm writing anyway, if I've offended you I apologize, my intent was just to spur discussion and without my tone being conveyed in the words it's coming off harsh to you when I'm not meaning to, good luck to you.


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I would like single moms just fine, if I divorce and decide to start dating again I would likely date a divorced woman with children, because a single woman without children likely wants nothing to do with my baggage, and wouldn't understand that we can't just take off to Utah for a week to ski because I have my kids that week. A woman with kids and an ex will understand my situation a lot better.
> 
> I'm not conceited at all, I'm comfortable in my own skin and enjoy where my work has gotten me in life, that's not conceit.
> 
> You're not really comprehending what I'm writing anyway, if I've offended you I apologize, my intent was just to spur discussion and without my tone being conveyed in the words it's coming off harsh to you when I'm not meaning to, good luck to you.


At 40 years old, you thought it was a good idea to spur discussion by telling a 24 year old single mum that high quality men will never date a Tinder slag like myself? Are you high??

While I am far from perfect, the last thing I would ever think to do is degrade a younger person going through a crisis, on her thread. A crisis that you should be able to relate to, considering your marriage is ON THE ROCKS. 

The purpose of this forum is to empower others and spread positivity. Your remarks were inappropriate and uncalled for, end of story. Look upon yourself before judging others. Work on your empathy & maybe you'd have greater relationship success in the future. I can't stress enough how much of a turn-off a man without manners is.


----------



## john117

Louise McCann said:


> You had each other to work as a team. I am a single mum, it makes all the difference


Translation: I kept both girls while wifey did her school work. You'll be amazed how well I could direct the 3 year old to entertain the baby, while I worked on my classes while watching our basketball team get obliterated...

True, we helped each other. But it was exhausting regardless. 

What are you studying?


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Louise McCann said:


> At 40 years old, you thought it was a good idea to spur discussion by telling a 24 year old single mum that high quality men will never date a Tinder slag like myself? Are you high??


Well when you state it like that...

Seriously though, you're taking a lot of this out of context and personally when I'm talking more broadly about a situation, not you personally. But I've offended you, and you seem genuinely bothered by it so for that I apologize.

Good luck to you, if turbo ****ing Tinder guy makes you feel better for a few days have at it, who am I to judge?


----------



## Louise McCann

john117 said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> You had each other to work as a team. I am a single mum, it makes all the difference
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: I kept both girls while wifey did her school work. You'll be amazed how well I could direct the 3 year old to entertain the baby, while I worked on my classes while watching our basketball team get obliterated...
> 
> True, we helped each other. But it was exhausting regardless.
> 
> What are you studying?
Click to expand...

Oh right, okay mad respect for you! One baby is already so demanding, I can't imagine 2! How did you manage to squeeze in part-time work then??

I am studying pharmacy but still have 2.5 years after taking a year off due to maternity. Sigh


----------



## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> At 40 years old, you thought it was a good idea to spur discussion by telling a 24 year old single mum that high quality men will never date a Tinder slag like myself? Are you high??
> 
> 
> 
> Well when you state it like that...
> 
> Seriously though, you're taking a lot of this out of context and personally when I'm talking more broadly about a situation, not you personally. But I've offended you, and you seem genuinely bothered by it so for that I apologize.
> 
> Good luck to you, if turbo ****ing Tinder guy makes you feel better for a few days have at it, who am I to judge?
Click to expand...

Yes, if I am insulted and called a Tinder slag unworthy of a good man, I will take it personally. Plus it was irrelevant to my situation as I am not looking to seek a man anytime soon.

Given my schedule and having to travel & move out again very soon, I saw him as my only opportunity for sex. It was now or never. I simply won't have the time for many many months. My workload for next semester will be quite overwhelming. 

With that said, I never had sex with him =,= he reached out to me a few times afterwards but that narrative has long ended. I have no plans to see him again.

Oh & thank you for your apology.


----------



## john117

Louise McCann said:


> Oh right, okay mad respect for you! One baby is already so demanding, I can't imagine 2! How did you manage to squeeze in part-time work then??
> 
> I am studying pharmacy but still have 2.5 years after taking a year off due to maternity. Sigh


Work was mostly research paid for by my employer (part of the PhD fellowship program) and for a couple semesters teaching human decision analysis. 

You should be able to meet good guys at school, no?


----------



## Louise McCann

john117 said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh right, okay mad respect for you! One baby is already so demanding, I can't imagine 2! How did you manage to squeeze in part-time work then??
> 
> I am studying pharmacy but still have 2.5 years after taking a year off due to maternity. Sigh
> 
> 
> 
> Work was mostly research paid for by my employer (part of the PhD fellowship program) and for a couple semesters teaching human decision analysis.
> 
> You should be able to meet good guys at school, no?
Click to expand...

Good gracious, good on you for completing a phd! I'm sure all the extensive research and hours spent on thesis, along with all the nappy changes & sleepless nights are a thing of the past for you now 

I don't really talk to many people at uni, their priorities differ greatly from mine. Everyone here drinks all the time and that is their idea of fun. The guys are immature and not looking for a relationship at the moment. I live in quite a small city in Scotland but it is really a **** show. Scotland is the highest consumer of coke in the world, if I am not wrong. Everybody has slept with everybody. Most of the friends I had been close to have already graduated and left the city.


----------



## 269370

Louise McCann said:


> To me, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a consensual ONS. Especially when one is newly single and going through a rough patch. I've had sex Once in 8 months, with somebody I know personally. Like I said, if I was a man nobody would bat an eye.
> 
> Sex is normal. Sex isn't taboo. It's 2017. If one is convinced that wild sex was more prevalent back in the day, sure whatever man. If that makes you feel better about your age


I don't think there's anything wrong about a consensual ONS either (provided both people are single). The question is more whether it will do the job of 'cheering someone up'. All the statistical stuff I have read about ONSs and how women in particular feel afterwards seem to indicate that the majority feel even worse after an ONS than before. In many cases, it is basically like trying to fill a void. But I am sure there are exceptions to the rule.


----------



## Diana7

Louise McCann said:


> Hahaha yup, thanks dear. Yes these men here are extremely ignorant and delusional, thinking they got the male brain all figured out.
> 
> If any man is going to feel threatened by a ONS in the past then he is a complete utter loser. A real man doesn't care for the petty details. A real man is compassionate & will see my soul for what it is and love me for me. I know I have a lot to offer, it's about believing in it! At 24, I am completely retired from the party lifestyle or any social events, if anything, I too would like to date a single parent who knows his priorities.
> 
> Men who discriminate against single mums haven't a clue as to what they are talking about and probably aren't even great dads themselves. None of you even understand the sheer level of tenacity & selflessness that is required to be a single mum. It's very easy to Mummy-shame and criticise every little aspect of our parenting but when it comes to men, it's OK to play the role of silly incompetent dad. All that is expected of them is to be a provider. Well that's what I have to be now, BOTH mum & dad. All while still attending Pharmacy school. Single mums are one of the strongest women, don't you dare belittle us. In fact, we are probably more man than you and that is what threatens an insecure man.
> 
> Real men don't care about alpha beta. Is this even a joke? "I'm alpha, you're beta"? Real men don't have to prove anything. This ain't high school. People should not be type-casted. As someone mentioned, there is no black & white.
> 
> Didn't even bang the Tinder dude, y'all. I had no intentions of having sex during this difficult time of divorce, but I made an exception for the hottie because he looked like a model & I already wasn't looking for anything serious. I am NOT looking to date and if some guy gets offended by my actions 5 years ago, then in my books, he is retarded?? How narrow-minded can a person be.
> 
> If I met a man who I thought was a perfect 10 in every aspect, I would have enough respect for him to not jump into bed until we had established emotional connection...not because he's a beta. But because to me he is worthy of a meaningful time! Also he would respect me enough to not try to seduce me right away, if he had tried to make the moves on me early then he's clearly a f*ckboy.
> 
> But the men here who insist otherwise are clearly painfully insecure about where they stand as a man, that the thought of being labelled a BETA is so unbearable, they could never be with a woman like that. Grow up. Stop being so square and judgemental. I hate men like that, it's so petty and feminine.
> 
> None of you know how every man works. "Men don't like single mums" LOL really? You are ONE guy, amongst billions, not my type and I wouldn't touch you with a 10 ft long pole. With my issues aside, I know my potential. I am 24, attractive, in good shape and have a very outgoing personality. Not one guy has expressed disinterest or turned off by the fact that I am a mum.
> 
> Haha so I can be called a slag but the second I call someone out for being a Grandpa, I get shut down? Hypocrite. Anyway to whom it concerns, shut up with your irrelevant "high quality" man theories and having all men figured out. To me, you are anything but a high quality man and the last person I would ever go out with, so therefore your claims are highly unreliable.
> 
> I don't owe it to anyone to prove myself. Many of the women you meet pretend to be a good girl and somebody they are not. I am not that person, I come as I am and I don't have anything to hide. I am an open book and a real man will appreciate my transparency, rather than some sweet pea who puts on a front. I want a smart man with the heart of gold who understands the notion that our actions do not define us as individuals, rather the lessons we learn do.
> 
> To me, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a consensual ONS. Especially when one is newly single and going through a rough patch. I've had sex Once in 8 months, with somebody I know personally. Like I said, if I was a man nobody would bat an eye.
> 
> Sex is normal. Sex isn't taboo. It's 2017. If one is convinced that wild sex was more prevalent back in the day, sure whatever man. If that makes you feel better about your age


I think you are wrong when you say that if a man had a one night stand no one would bat an eye. I don't see it as any more heathy or helpful or right than a women doing it. 
It wont help you or make you feel better about yourself. In fact the opposite. 
Sex isn't taboo, but sex is so important and sex in a committed relationship/marriage is SO much better than sex with someone you don't know and who cares nothing for you. 

Its not about a man feeling 'threatened' by a ONS, or about a man being a 'looser' because this matters to him, its about wanting to be with someone who shares your view of sex, what it is and what it represents. When I became single again after a long 25 year first marriage, and spent six years as a single mum of three older children, I had very high expectations for a man and his values. I didn't date at all for 4 years(wasn't ready) and dated very little for the next 2(no sex), until I met my now husband of 12 years. My first husband, who I married when he was 23 and I was 19, had slept with 6 women. 
This time, I was only interested in a man who hadn't slept around. I didn't want a man who treated sex as a casual thing, and treated women so casually and selfishly. As it happens he had only ever had sex with his first wife of 23 years, and to me that was very special. He also wouldn't have been interested in a woman who had had many partners. 

So its a question of whether you would be happy in the future with a husband/father for your child who has been very casual about sex. Who is happy to have ONS's as you seem to be. If you are then fine, but many couldn't be. For many sex is very important and there is nothing casual about it. 

We all seek someone with the same sort of values as we have, and to attack those men who wouldn't want their partners to have had ons's/casual sex is wrong. BTW my husband is a real man. Very much so. 

Please value yourself and think about what you want your daughter to learn from her mum.


----------



## Satya

Louise McCann said:


> GUYS.OMG UPDATE.
> 
> So Mr 19 year old wanker who rejected me reached out to me that he didnt know what to do & that he's still interested. (I blocked him) HAHAHAH I overreacted after all. Love u guys


Honestly, no offense Louise, but you were once 19.

Maybe you should consider tempering your judgements of others a little and keep them inner-focused.

It was obvious he wasn't going to be mature enough for you. That's no reason to blast him on the internet for a poor, mutual decision you made (and now regret).

Learn with humility and carry it forward. That is what will give you the character to draw in the right kind of man.


----------



## southbound

I confess i haven't read all these posts, but to address the original post, I turned down a woman on a dating site that was 20 years younger than me simply because i didn't see it going anywhere due to the age difference. It had nothing to do with her being unattractive, but I just felt I was using my brain instead of the other and that was the logical decision I made. 

She was a little stunned but not angry. She said I was different than other guys she met. She said most guys would have taken advantage just for the sex whether they thought it would go anywhere or not. Maybe I'm the only guy in the world who would have done that, so it seems weird, but nonetheless, that is what I did.


----------



## AVR1962

What do you want from men? Serious? If you just want sex, learn to accept rejection but if you want something more meaningful Tinder is not the place and exchanging nude pics are not going to get you what you want. Your worth is not based on what you can give out. There's lots of men just wanting action out there. Is that want you really want to satisfy? Think about lady!! You have to value yourdself.


----------



## alexm

AVR1962 said:


> What do you want from men? Serious? If you just want sex, learn to accept rejection but if you want something more meaningful Tinder is not the place and exchanging nude pics are not going to get you what you want. Your worth is not based on what you can give out. There's lots of men just wanting action out there. Is that want you really want to satisfy? Think about lady!! You have to value yourdself.


Learning to accept rejection, period, is key. Whether it's casual or not. Louise, this is exactly why you were given such a rough ride here. This post evolved into something more than the OP, but the gist of it was that you were feeling like crap because you were rejected for the first time, ever, and it sucked. Some people were polite, others were not, but they all said the same thing: "Really? Get over it".

As far as the age thing is concerned, it's not actually about _age_. It's about experience. On one hand, you were calling some folks "Grandpa". On the other, you were calling the Tinder guy immature, as well as the other people your age you go to school with. Comparatively speaking, you are immature to many of us - but it's not necessarily about age.

As this forum deals with marriage (and most of it the breakups of said marriages), a 24 year old student who's OP is basically "I got rejected by a 19 year old, so I must be ugly and I feel bad about myself, please help me feel better" is not exactly a subject you'll find a lot of sympathy about here. Because most (all) of us have been rejected in, with all due respect, far worse ways.

You will be rejected again, and it will hurt, again. Although some people are a little blunt and come across as angry or condescending - take it with a grain of salt. Experience does that to people. You will be rejected for far worse reasons, by far better people - that's life. People you trust implicitly will reject or hurt you.

As for the ONS thing, it's a contentious subject, as you've probably realized. It's not black and white. Sex for sex's sake is perfectly fine, IMO. Sex for the goal of feeling good about yourself, or wanted, or for attention - that's a different story. My wife has a bit of a history with casual sex. I could care less about the number of partners she's had - truly. But knowing her, and seeing her mild shame and regret over the _reasons _for it - that's different. Ideally, nobody should feel shame or regret for -choices- they've made in the past, but that's just not the reality of it for many.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Well, I understand trying to place our values on someone who is so young and has so much ahead of her, and is given the added responsibility of a child to raise. 

She made that choice herself, when she had sex. I find most young folks don't consider that as a reality. It's sad it isn't considered beforehand. I understand why it is an afterthought when it is so easy to make it go away.

I am against ONSs. I never had one in my 55 years on this earth. I have learned that others don't have the same values as me. I have learned that I must accept that or constantly find myself frustrated. It isn't easy. This is what you are finding in this thread, Louise.

It's pretty normal for a young woman of your age to still be figuring out what your values and goals are and their relationship to actions and consequences. I don't see a big deal with your attitude. I think you are normal.

Do I think you have some maturing to do? Sure, but we all do until we die. We never know everything. I think, if you continue in counseling with an open mind, you will be doing yourself a great deal of good. You will be way ahead of others your age and be self-assured without the arrogance that usually comes with it. 

One thing I will say to you. Once something is done in life, it cannot be taken away. It's done forever and any scars or consequences will always be there. They simply add one more issue to deal with or one more speed bump on the road of life. I don't think you are unfamiliar with any of this and it's why I haven't really said much. 

Folks here see their own mistakes and then where they went wrong. They get freaked that someone so young might make the same ones. Some get all angry and forceful, telling you what to do and where you are wrong. Others simply let you learn on your own because they know they would never have taken all the advice and nearly abusive control. I think you are one of the latter. 

Keep going to school and do well. This alone will open up doors for you. Take a break from sex as much as you can without losing your mind to your libido. Be very careful in the selection of a partner for those few times you need the relief and build some good friends who will help you by sharing lives and feelings through this difficult time in your life. Please be aware of the consequences of attempted sex with someone you don't know and how those may affect your life. Take precautions. Those may include changes in lifestyle.

I believe you will be alright and many are projecting fears onto your life through the possibility that you could end up the same as they did. You must temper your thoughts and reactions, allowing for these natural fears and their comments and suggestions. Even the best of intentions can come across as controlling and abusive. I'm not saying anyone has been that terrible. I'm just attempting to help you step back from the turmoil, if you need it. If not, know that I am not accusing anyone of anything, but know what it can be like here. 

To sum that all up, "Be careful with your life. There is someone who depends on you."


----------



## Louise McCann

Diana7 said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha yup, thanks dear. Yes these men here are extremely ignorant and delusional, thinking they got the male brain all figured out.
> 
> If any man is going to feel threatened by a ONS in the past then he is a complete utter loser. A real man doesn't care for the petty details. A real man is compassionate & will see my soul for what it is and love me for me. I know I have a lot to offer, it's about believing in it! At 24, I am completely retired from the party lifestyle or any social events, if anything, I too would like to date a single parent who knows his priorities.
> 
> Men who discriminate against single mums haven't a clue as to what they are talking about and probably aren't even great dads themselves. None of you even understand the sheer level of tenacity & selflessness that is required to be a single mum. It's very easy to Mummy-shame and criticise every little aspect of our parenting but when it comes to men, it's OK to play the role of silly incompetent dad. All that is expected of them is to be a provider. Well that's what I have to be now, BOTH mum & dad. All while still attending Pharmacy school. Single mums are one of the strongest women, don't you dare belittle us. In fact, we are probably more man than you and that is what threatens an insecure man.
> 
> Real men don't care about alpha beta. Is this even a joke? "I'm alpha, you're beta"? Real men don't have to prove anything. This ain't high school. People should not be type-casted. As someone mentioned, there is no black & white.
> 
> Didn't even bang the Tinder dude, y'all. I had no intentions of having sex during this difficult time of divorce, but I made an exception for the hottie because he looked like a model & I already wasn't looking for anything serious. I am NOT looking to date and if some guy gets offended by my actions 5 years ago, then in my books, he is retarded?? How narrow-minded can a person be.
> 
> If I met a man who I thought was a perfect 10 in every aspect, I would have enough respect for him to not jump into bed until we had established emotional connection...not because he's a beta. But because to me he is worthy of a meaningful time! Also he would respect me enough to not try to seduce me right away, if he had tried to make the moves on me early then he's clearly a f*ckboy.
> 
> But the men here who insist otherwise are clearly painfully insecure about where they stand as a man, that the thought of being labelled a BETA is so unbearable, they could never be with a woman like that. Grow up. Stop being so square and judgemental. I hate men like that, it's so petty and feminine.
> 
> None of you know how every man works. "Men don't like single mums" LOL really? You are ONE guy, amongst billions, not my type and I wouldn't touch you with a 10 ft long pole. With my issues aside, I know my potential. I am 24, attractive, in good shape and have a very outgoing personality. Not one guy has expressed disinterest or turned off by the fact that I am a mum.
> 
> Haha so I can be called a slag but the second I call someone out for being a Grandpa, I get shut down? Hypocrite. Anyway to whom it concerns, shut up with your irrelevant "high quality" man theories and having all men figured out. To me, you are anything but a high quality man and the last person I would ever go out with, so therefore your claims are highly unreliable.
> 
> I don't owe it to anyone to prove myself. Many of the women you meet pretend to be a good girl and somebody they are not. I am not that person, I come as I am and I don't have anything to hide. I am an open book and a real man will appreciate my transparency, rather than some sweet pea who puts on a front. I want a smart man with the heart of gold who understands the notion that our actions do not define us as individuals, rather the lessons we learn do.
> 
> To me, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a consensual ONS. Especially when one is newly single and going through a rough patch. I've had sex Once in 8 months, with somebody I know personally. Like I said, if I was a man nobody would bat an eye.
> 
> Sex is normal. Sex isn't taboo. It's 2017. If one is convinced that wild sex was more prevalent back in the day, sure whatever man. If that makes you feel better about your age
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are wrong when you say that if a man had a one night stand no one would bat an eye. I don't see it as any more heathy or helpful or right than a women doing it.
> It wont help you or make you feel better about yourself. In fact the opposite.
> Sex isn't taboo, but sex is so important and sex in a committed relationship/marriage is SO much better than sex with someone you don't know and who cares nothing for you.
> 
> Its not about a man feeling 'threatened' by a ONS, or about a man being a 'looser' because this matters to him, its about wanting to be with someone who shares your view of sex, what it is and what it represents. When I became single again after a long 25 year first marriage, and spent six years as a single mum of three older children, I had very high expectations for a man and his values. I didn't date at all for 4 years(wasn't ready) and dated very little for the next 2(no sex), until I met my now husband of 12 years. My first husband, who I married when he was 23 and I was 19, had slept with 6 women.
> This time, I was only interested in a man who hadn't slept around. I didn't want a man who treated sex as a casual thing, and treated women so casually and selfishly. As it happens he had only ever had sex with his first wife of 23 years, and to me that was very special. He also wouldn't have been interested in a woman who had had many partners.
> 
> So its a question of whether you would be happy in the future with a husband/father for your child who has been very casual about sex. Who is happy to have ONS's as you seem to be. If you are then fine, but many couldn't be. For many sex is very important and there is nothing casual about it.
> 
> We all seek someone with the same sort of values as we have, and to attack those men who wouldn't want their partners to have had ons's/casual sex is wrong. BTW my husband is a real man. Very much so.
> 
> Please value yourself and think about what you want your daughter to learn from her mum.
Click to expand...

Your ex slept with 6 women? That's quite a low number for a guy! I don't know any guy my age who hasn't slept with more than 10 women. 

As for me, I am pretty sure I will get told off by everyone so I'm keeping mum about it.


----------



## Louise McCann

alexm said:


> AVR1962 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you want from men? Serious? If you just want sex, learn to accept rejection but if you want something more meaningful Tinder is not the place and exchanging nude pics are not going to get you what you want. Your worth is not based on what you can give out. There's lots of men just wanting action out there. Is that want you really want to satisfy? Think about lady!! You have to value yourdself.
> 
> 
> 
> Learning to accept rejection, period, is key. Whether it's casual or not. Louise, this is exactly why you were given such a rough ride here. This post evolved into something more than the OP, but the gist of it was that you were feeling like crap because you were rejected for the first time, ever, and it sucked. Some people were polite, others were not, but they all said the same thing: "Really? Get over it".
> 
> As far as the age thing is concerned, it's not actually about _age_. It's about experience. On one hand, you were calling some folks "Grandpa". On the other, you were calling the Tinder guy immature, as well as the other people your age you go to school with. Comparatively speaking, you are immature to many of us - but it's not necessarily about age.
> 
> As this forum deals with marriage (and most of it the breakups of said marriages), a 24 year old student who's OP is basically "I got rejected by a 19 year old, so I must be ugly and I feel bad about myself, please help me feel better" is not exactly a subject you'll find a lot of sympathy about here. Because most (all) of us have been rejected in, with all due respect, far worse ways.
> 
> You will be rejected again, and it will hurt, again. Although some people are a little blunt and come across as angry or condescending - take it with a grain of salt. Experience does that to people. You will be rejected for far worse reasons, by far better people - that's life. People you trust implicitly will reject or hurt you.
> 
> As for the ONS thing, it's a contentious subject, as you've probably realized. It's not black and white. Sex for sex's sake is perfectly fine, IMO. Sex for the goal of feeling good about yourself, or wanted, or for attention - that's a different story. My wife has a bit of a history with casual sex. I could care less about the number of partners she's had - truly. But knowing her, and seeing her mild shame and regret over the _reasons _for it - that's different. Ideally, nobody should feel shame or regret for -choices- they've made in the past, but that's just not the reality of it for many.
Click to expand...

Yup I agree, the Tinder rejection was minor, I was frustrated and posted here in the spur of the moment. I am totally over it now, it could also be because he reached out to me still expressing interest, which kinda invalidates the rejection.

I don't think it's being rejected by him per se, I just couldn't deal with anymore rejection. I had been feeling so worthless & unlovable that I even took being turned down by a stranger too seriously. 

I don't think folks here should judge & be dismissing my rejection as trivial to theirs as I too had been rejected by my STBX. While it was a short marriage, I had been so happy & just given birth. He abandoned our family, and it was excruciating because I never saw it coming. After an argument about him needing to be more serious as a father, he simply got up & left. He was my world and yet I was nothing to him. You start questioning everything about yourself & life & actually believing that you're worthless. Things are getting better now though so thank you.


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## Louise McCann

Why did @Richi300 get so much support for wanting to hook up/meaningless sex, while I get judged and told to be undeserving of a good man? LOL.

It takes 2 to tango, and 2 to have a ONS. Man AND woman. Female empowerment, everybody


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Louise McCann said:


> I don't know any guy my age who hasn't slept with more than 10 women.


You do now! (well, unless by "know" you mean in person)


----------



## Elizabeth001

Louise McCann said:


> Why did @Richi300 get so much support for wanting to hook up/meaningless sex, while I get judged and told to be undeserving of a good man? LOL.
> 
> It takes 2 to tango, and 2 to have a ONS. Man AND woman. Female empowerment, everybody




You can’t take things so personally here hon. Not everyone here has double standards and is ready to burn you at the stake for (what they feel is) the slightest mistake. If you hang around and keep your cool, you’ll figure out who is posting good advice and who is just bitter. 

Take what you can use and leave the rest. You’ll still get more help than hurt from here. And sometimes the hurt is hard to take but something we need to hear anyway. Sometimes 

ETA: I saw that post and its responses today and thought of you and your post while coming to the same conclusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## john117

Louise McCann said:


> Why did @Richi300 get so much support for wanting to hook up/meaningless sex, while I get judged and told to be undeserving of a good man? LOL.
> 
> It takes 2 to tango, and 2 to have a ONS. Man AND woman. Female empowerment, everybody


Risk / Reward analysis is your friend.

The explanation is left as an exercise.


----------



## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> Risk / Reward analysis is your friend.
> 
> The explanation is left as an exercise.




That made no sense John. She’s right about the other post. It was a double standard for real. Root the guys on and **** shame the females. I call bull ****. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Louise McCann said:


> Your ex slept with 6 women? That's quite a low number for a guy! I don't know any guy my age who hasn't slept with more than 10 women.
> 
> As for me, I am pretty sure I will get told off by everyone so I'm keeping mum about it.


I have slept with one woman and I am 37.


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## Elizabeth001

inmyprime said:


> I have slept with one woman and I am 37. About a couple of times a week on average, for the last 20 years or so.




Uuhhh...good on ya!

Orrrr...sorry for your loss. 

Depends... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Louise McCann said:


> Why did @Richi300 get so much support for wanting to hook up/meaningless sex, while I get judged and told to be undeserving of a good man? LOL.
> 
> It takes 2 to tango, and 2 to have a ONS. Man AND woman. Female empowerment, everybody


I think you might be missing the point. It's not about whether it's ok or not to have ONSs, it's more about whether they will achieve the desired result for you: given what I read on this subject, it is doubtful.
Find a good guy who adores you and do 'regular ONSs' with him 
Higher success rate for not feeling miserable, apparently!


----------



## john117

Elizabeth001 said:


> That made no sense John. She’s right about the other post. It was a double standard for real. Root the guys on and **** shame the females. I call bull ****.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It makes sense for men . I'm not trying to justify it tho.

Think of who's risking what in an ONS. Then who gets the reward. 

In other words, there's less reward and more risk if you're a female in an ONS and vice versa.

The double standard simply reflects that. Why women go for ONS like those described completely eludes me.


----------



## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> It makes sense for men . I'm not trying to justify it tho.
> 
> Think of who's risking what in an ONS. Then who gets the reward.
> 
> In other words, there's less reward and more risk if you're a female in an ONS and vice versa.
> 
> The double standard simply reflects that. Why women go for ONS like those described completely eludes me.




Perhaps she just wanted to get laid. Forget about her troubles for a while. Anyone see Monsters Ball?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

There are a lot of double standards here. Jus’ sayin’. 

I can’t count the threads where the guys tell the guy...eff tha beotch...go get you some. 

Not that I agree with it...just pointing to the obvious. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> It makes sense for men . I'm not trying to justify it tho.
> 
> Think of who's risking what in an ONS. Then who gets the reward.
> 
> In other words, there's less reward and more risk if you're a female in an ONS and vice versa.
> 
> The double standard simply reflects that. Why women go for ONS like those described completely eludes me.




And ftr...you pretty much lost me at “It makes sense for men”

PFT!!! Ick, yuck and anything else that is allowed. I’m going to bed. 




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## growing_weary

She should totally be able to do what she wants with her body. Ain't nothin wrong with a safe ONS. 

However don't get hung up on that rejection thing. One hot 19 year old does not all hot men make. Go and find yourself another.


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## john117

Elizabeth001 said:


> And ftr...you pretty much lost me at “It makes sense for men”
> 
> PFT!!! Ick, yuck and anything else that is allowed. I’m going to bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the inner academic in me talking 

Men can easily justify an ONS because they have a better reward to risk ratio than women. They get lucky, don't risk much, etc. Society is more "tolerant" of such behaviors. 

Women are opposite. They have far more to risk, personal safety, pregnancy, less as reward - emotional aspect more important we assume - and lower societal tolerance. 

Note that i find ONS unacceptable for the most part, regardless of gender. I'm simply trying to show how men see it vs reality.


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## sokillme

Elizabeth001 said:


> There are a lot of double standards here. Jus’ sayin’.
> 
> I can’t count the threads where the guys tell the guy...eff tha beotch...go get you some.
> 
> Not that I agree with it...just pointing to the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Point to the posters who specifically did this. It's only a double standard if the individual posters are not consistent. At least for me I personally would give the same advice man or women. 

Admittedly she was looking to fill her current rejected feelings (understandably because of the way the father of her child abandoned her) by hooking up with a total stranger on tinder who sent her **** pics. This guy or girl is most likely a bad idea and has the potential to be very dangerous. Besides all that it's most likely not going to fix her issues anyway. I think most of us were saying as such. Not that she needs to remain a virgin.


----------



## alexm

john117 said:


> It's the inner academic in me talking
> 
> Men can easily justify an ONS because they have a better reward to risk ratio than women. They get lucky, don't risk much, etc. Society is more "tolerant" of such behaviors.
> 
> Women are opposite. They have far more to risk, personal safety, pregnancy, less as reward - emotional aspect more important we assume - and lower societal tolerance.
> 
> Note that i find ONS unacceptable for the most part, regardless of gender. I'm simply trying to show how men see it vs reality.


You're right AND you're wrong, John.

Personal safety - absolutely, no argument there. But there are also ways to (mostly) ensure your safety. Don't go to a stranger's place. Have a friend check in with you. Let someone you're with know you're not going home alone. Take pictures of the person beforehand (at the club or bar).

Pregnancy - yes, but far lesser than we think these days. With so many b/c options for women (not to mention Plan B, etc.) it's not the concern it used to be. Frankly, if anyone is partaking in casual sex and not using a condom for protection against STD's (NOT as b/c) AND is using actual b/c (ie. not just a condom) the risk is on them. Yes, the onus on b/c is on the woman (again, a condom is NOT the only b/c one should be using!), but it's far easier than it ever has been.

Emotional aspect/reward - I dunno about this one. Times have a' changed, me thinks. It seems to me that men's and women's attitudes towards casual sex are actually coming together moreso than ever before. Women are more aloof in their attitudes towards (casual) sex, and men seem to be a little more sensitive/emotional (or downright scared these days, as they should be, TBH). Hell, this this thread seems to show that. 19 year old dude doesn't make a move on the OP, yet continues to text her for days afterwards, and she's having none of it.

Societal tolerance - depends on your age group, I think. It's still there, yes, but not the way it was in your generation or mine, I don't think. I get the impression that less and less women are allowing themselves to be shamed simply for having a normal desire to have sex. The ones that feel shame or regret are the ones having sex for the "wrong" reasons. Like to feel good about themselves, desired, wanted, etc. That's where the stigma lies. Not in simply wanting to get laid.


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## Blondilocks

For what it's worth, @louiseMcCann, I just want to set your ex-husband's ass on fire.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

For the record I wouldn't judge a woman over a ONS, or some bad decisions in her past if she learned from them and became more emotionally healthy. Although, I would judge a woman who puts men into the "men I'll **** box" and "men I'll date box" (OP's words). Because this would indicate to me, that if I didn't make the cut for "men I'll **** box", then I'm being setup to be used like a sucker by her for ego fluffing, dinners, maybe pay her bills, whatever resources she wants to siphon from me in exchange for crappy sex and nagging.

If a woman, over years of habitually using Tinder to screw "hot guys" who are complete strangers from nothing but a 30 second clip of him exposing himself, I'm sure as **** not wining and dining her for the hope of a kiss. She's already shown that if attracted to a man she'll **** on demand. So if I'm made to jump through hoops and romance her, that means I'm squarely in her "men to date" box and too fugly to want to ****.

This is called alpha ****s, beta bux. And if you're the latter in this situation, you are setup for the ****tiest existence a man can be exposed to. because a woman who thinks like this, will also think she still deserves to **** those "hot guys" on the side, and Mr. beta bux can't provide her everything else she needs.

Everything we do in life shapes who we are. Like the guy who blew off his studies in H.S. and now wants to go to a top college. Not going to happen, it would take years of remedial work in community college before he could transfer to a decent college, top college is likely off the table due to his previous behavior. Same with a woman who is early 20's a single Mom, who ****s strangers on Tinder because they're "hot". You're likely not going to get swept off your feet by a good looking, emotionally healthy, confident, and successful man. He'll have options that don't include a woman who ****s for sport on Tinder.


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## Louise McCann

Elizabeth001 said:


> Louise McCann said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did @Richi300 get so much support for wanting to hook up/meaningless sex, while I get judged and told to be undeserving of a good man? LOL.
> 
> It takes 2 to tango, and 2 to have a ONS. Man AND woman. Female empowerment, everybody
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can’t take things so personally here hon. Not everyone here has double standards and is ready to burn you at the stake for (what they feel is) the slightest mistake. If you hang around and keep your cool, you’ll figure out who is posting good advice and who is just bitter.
> 
> Take what you can use and leave the rest. You’ll still get more help than hurt from here. And sometimes the hurt is hard to take but something we need to hear anyway. Sometimes
> 
> ETA: I saw that post and its responses today and thought of you and your post while coming to the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's very true, the help here has been immense, to the point that the bitterness really threw me off. I suppose it's a way of helping me develop thicker skin as well.

Thank you dear  :-*


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## Louise McCann

Blondilocks said:


> For what it's worth, @louiseMcCann, I just want to set your ex-husband's ass on fire.


Hahaha I love you <3


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## Louise McCann

marriageontherocks2 said:


> For the record I wouldn't judge a woman over a ONS, or some bad decisions in her past if she learned from them and became more emotionally healthy. Although, I would judge a woman who puts men into the "men I'll **** box" and "men I'll date box" (OP's words). Because this would indicate to me, that if I didn't make the cut for "men I'll **** box", then I'm being setup to be used like a sucker by her for ego fluffing, dinners, maybe pay her bills, whatever resources she wants to siphon from me in exchange for crappy sex and nagging.
> 
> If a woman, over years of habitually using Tinder to screw "hot guys" who are complete strangers from nothing but a 30 second clip of him exposing himself, I'm sure as **** not wining and dining her for the hope of a kiss. She's already shown that if attracted to a man she'll **** on demand. So if I'm made to jump through hoops and romance her, that means I'm squarely in her "men to date" box and too fugly to want to ****.
> 
> This is called alpha ****s, beta bux. And if you're the latter in this situation, you are setup for the ****tiest existence a man can be exposed to. because a woman who thinks like this, will also think she still deserves to **** those "hot guys" on the side, and Mr. beta bux can't provide her everything else she needs.
> 
> Everything we do in life shapes who we are. Like the guy who blew off his studies in H.S. and now wants to go to a top college. Not going to happen, it would take years of remedial work in community college before he could transfer to a decent college, top college is likely off the table due to his previous behavior. Same with a woman who is early 20's a single Mom, who ****s strangers on Tinder because they're "hot". You're likely not going to get swept off your feet by a good looking, emotionally healthy, confident, and successful man. He'll have options that don't include a woman who ****s for sport on Tinder.


I guess it's a given we have no future together... I am devastated. What will I do with myself?!! :O


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## Louise McCann

@marriageontherocks2 I also think it's safe to say that when most people are "in love", they don't pay attention to someone's sexual past unless it involves sex work or something extremely inappropriate. The ones who do mind are likely insecure and jealous individuals. In fact, we are all too familiar with how love is blind and can make us ignore even the biggest red flags.

BTW, currently being woo-ed by an attractive career-minded older man. He sounds a lot more emotionally healthy than you too. So the joke is on you







& nope, I am not interested in him.


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## NextTimeAround

I think men are taking a lot of risk in ONSs. One, they could be accused of date rape if the woman changes her mind. I don't think men use condoms as often as they should, so they risk becoming fathers when they have not thought about it and most likely don't care much about the baby mama.

I don't think women are any more empowered when comes to ONS or sex in general. Deciding what to do with an unwanted pregnancy must be a roller coaster. Physical safety, yes, could be compromised. Men don't always carry their own condoms nor want to use them and STDs quite often don't show symptoms on women like they do on men.

I think that's great that we have come so far that the odd ONS a woman does does not make her damaged goods. But in general, I would not want to be friends with anyone who regularly does ONSs. 1) because that's not a sign of mental and emotional stability and 2) if I spend any time with her, I could be an innocent bystander should one of those ONS partners feel as if they were led on.


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## Louise McCann

NextTimeAround said:


> I think men are taking a lot of risk in ONSs. One, they could be accused of date rape if the woman changes her mind. I don't think men use condoms as often as they should, so they risk becoming fathers when they have not thought about it and most likely don't care much about the baby mama.
> 
> I don't think women are any more empowered when comes to ONS or sex in general. Deciding what to do with an unwanted pregnancy must be a roller coaster. Physical safety, yes, could be compromised. Men don't always carry their own condoms nor want to use them and STDs quite often don't show symptoms on women like they do on men.
> 
> I think that's great that we have come so far that the odd ONS a woman does does not make her damaged goods. But in general, I would not want to be friends with anyone who regularly does ONSs. 1) because that's not a sign of mental and emotional stability and 2) if I spend any time with her, I could be an innocent bystander should one of those ONS partners feel as if they were led on.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Men have a lot more to risk, and potentially have to pay child support for the rest of their lives. 

No harm in the occasional ONS, as long as both parties are consenting and strict boundaries are put into place. If one is having regular ONS's then there is definitely an underlying emotional problem. 

Thank you for your alternative viewpoint!


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