# Need advice.. I was the inappropriate one



## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Hello,
Please hear me out here as I've been scared to death the last 2 weeks that I ruined my marriage. My wife and I have been together for 7 years and married for 2. There's been some bumps. While we were engaged I found out she was having an emotional thing going on with a guy from work. She told me it was never physical and I believed her and we moved on. More recently I saw some text messages on our phone bill from a different guy from work late at night on the weekends while I was away. When I asked about it she told me it was nothing and she didn't remember why he was texting her. So I've had suspicions but I always trusted her. We were having some problems about 6 months ago and she suggested counseling which I agreed to but then a few weeks later when things seemed to be going well I declined.

Now just recently I screwed up big time. I was away on a trip and visited a strip club with a bunch of guys. I don't drink much but I was pretty tanked on this night. I ended up getting a lap dance from one of the girls and she was very forward. We did not have sex but I allowed things to go too far before I stopped it. I immediately got scared and it just got worse and worse. I went home two days later and immediately started thinking that this stripper gave me something. After a week my wife could tell something was up and I was feeling tremendously guilty and was scared that if I got something I could give it to her so I came clean. If by the small chance that I picked up something and gave it to my wife I would not be able to forgive myself. At first my wife was supportive and actually was laughing at me for how worried I was. A few days later, I was away from home for a few days again for work and from talking to her on the phone over my trip I could tell she was getting angry. By the time I came home she was furious and said that we had major problems of which this stripper thing was just the tip of the iceberg.

She asked me to leave and I left. I don't really have anywhere to go so I've been staying in hotels but I'm running out of money pretty quickly. It's now been a week and a half since she asked me to leave. It's ok for me to go home while she's at work and last weekend she went and stayed with a friend so I stayed at the house. In the last week and half I've been to 3 therapy appointments as I truly love my wife and want to make our marriage work. I also wrote her and left a letter taking ownership for things I've done and things I asked forgiveness for. We talk and text message daily but she just tells me that she's too angry to be around me right now. She also won't go to counseling with me yet although she plans to go by herself. If I try to talk about us she just gets angry with me so we haven't really talked about where we go from here.

So, I'm feeling tremendous guilt and fear that I ruined my marriage and I'm going to lose my wife who I love dearly. I asked her the other day to consider me coming back to the house simply for financial reasons. I told her that I'd stay in the guest room and she wouldn't have to see me. But when I asked today if she thought about it she got mad and now won't talk to me. I'm supposed to go away for another work trip on the 15th but I already told my boss that I'm not going because of problems at home. I also told my wife that I wasn't going b/c my marriage is more important than my job.

I really don't know what to do. She's told me that if I come back to stay at the house then she will leave which I don't want her to do so I've stayed away. Can anyone give me some advice? I do have a couple of options for places I might be able to stay but I'm not real close with these people so I'd rather not have them know about my marriage problems.

Thanks for reading this and any thoughts that anyone may have.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

It sounds to me that there may be having atleast an EA. She wasn't angry at first and then became angry. I think this is manipulation and justification. You need to find out the truth. Get the phone records. If she uses the computer to message get a keylogger installed. Tap your home phone if you think she uses it. See where she goes after work. 
Do not beg, grovel or plead. What are you doing with the counselling. Is it just venting or are you trying to address a particular issue. What kind of advise are you getting. Stop texting. That is just exchanging information. You need to speak with her. You need to hear her voice and she needs to hear your. You need to communicate on a personal level. Have you asked her what she wants you to do? You have apologized, right?


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

I have apologized and apologized. She seems angry about my transgression at the strip club but also really angry about how things have been going the last year or so. I never realized things were as bad as they obviously are. Probably my own stupidity. I'm very unhappy in my job and I wrongly bring that home. I also have a very different personality than my W. I'm from a family where we yell and are nasty with each other when we are angry but then 15 minutes later we are hugging each other and fine. My W is not that way at all and she keeps things inside and gets quiet when she's angry. That's a lot of what I'm talking about in therapy. I am trying very, very hard to change the way I think about myself and also how I handle things when I'm angry/frustrated. I think if my W gives me another chance things will be much better simply because I'm aware of my behavior/communication and how it affects her. I'm not using it as an excuse but I honestly believe that I just didn't see it before.

I know I made a big mistake by potentially bringing an STD home to my marriage even though the risk was low. It was still a risk and it was a horrible decision. I just hope she can forgive me. 

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

What she told me is that she wants me to go to counseling and then she'll come with me. So I've been 3 times to 2 different counselors. But she's not ready yet as she said she can't sit there with me and talk about her feelings right now. I think she's going to go by herself first.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

I would follow IANTOO's advice and look into her actions. It seems a bit over the top to go from ice to fire like that. However, it could also be anger that you declined the counseling and then had this happen.

I am a bit confused on the "we did not have sex" bit for yoit o then say you are worried about an std? Was there oral that you did not consider "Sex" ?

Q~


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

htd,
the 1st part of post talks about you suspicion.
the last 2/3rds talks about your screw up.
My thought is she should be fieghting for your attention instead of your attentions going toward another stripper. Instead she's pushing you away.
Maybe she's getting her attention from some one else, like you suspect from the first prt of your post


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I am a bit confused on the "we did not have sex" bit for yoit o then say you are worried about an std? Was there oral that you did not consider "Sex" ?


That part has me too - there's a lot more here that is NOT being said. You can't get help that works unless the entire story comes out...


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

Agreed on std vs 'no sex' what's the real story? She HAS to be asking herself the same thing.
Trust. Its the foundation of a relationship. Sounds like that foundation has been blown. And she probably - like us - feels there must be more to it.

Drop the ego. Risk losing it all. (You're close to that now anyway.) No need to 'grovel' as someone mentioned in an earlier post, but you clearly f-d up. And there's no way she'll instantly trust you again. 

The issue of whether she did or is doing anything else... that's her gift to the world's woes. But for YOU and YOUR conscience, the best best best you can do is be honest and make it clear that (IF) you want her. Show her you will fight for her. And be open about your worries - BUT DO NOT make her feel like your episode is in response to your worries. TOTAL BACKFIRE! 

You might say something like...
"I understand your pain. What I did was totally wrong and it hurt you and... I have felt a pain like this before because whether I'm right or wrong I have felt that you have been unfaithful to me. It made me feel awful, so I now understand how you might be feeling - probably 20x worse than how I felt before..." This could get that dialogue going. 

Good luck. Be honest...


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Sorry, just to clear things up. I've been trying to be as honest as possible. One thing I've found is I find it very difficult to lie to my W about anything serious. I didn't want to be too graphic. But there was genital-hand-genital contact, a good amount of grinding, and very, very brief oral-genital contact. That's when I freaked and got out of there. According to my doctor, none of it is high risk but I did have a small chance of catching an STD like herpes. That's what really got me scared. Especially because of who/where it happened.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

howardtheduck said:


> Sorry, just to clear things up. I've been trying to be as honest as possible. One thing I've found is I find it very difficult to lie to my W about anything serious. I didn't want to be too graphic. But there was genital-hand-genital contact, a good amount of grinding, and very, very brief oral-genital contact. That's when I freaked and got out of there. According to my doctor, none of it is high risk but I did have a small chance of catching an STD like herpes. That's what really got me scared. Especially because of who/where it happened.


Dude, genital - hand - genital or genital - oral is an affair, regardless of how brief it is. You need to accept that an affair is what you had and begin theprocess of recovering from the affair, both on your own and with your wife. For her, she will have to decide on whether to work onthe marriage or leave. 

At this point, you should maybe look into a PI on her previous endeavors. IT sounds a bit like and EA to me and evidence will pretty much help out both of you as to where you go from here. This is also the critical time for you to start communicating with her on everything. 

Q~


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks for the replies.

I know I screwed up. That's why I said that I'm petrified that I ruined my marriage. I don't think I'm denying that what I did was an affair. Maybe in my mind I'm trying to make it easier on me by saying, "It wasn't that bad." But that's probably asinine to think like that.

I guess I just want advice on how to proceed from here. I'm tearing myself to pieces the last few weeks and all I think about is what I did and what it might mean for my marriage. All I get from my W is anger. I don't think she wants a divorce but I guess I just want some advice on how not to screw things up worse than I already have. I've been to counseling the last two weeks and plan to continue as its helped me understand how my actions/behaviors affect my W.

I'm ok with her EA's if that's what they were but obviously it's a lot easier to say that now after I did what I did. I think counseling for both of us can really help us understand our relationship and how we can both feel fulfilled and communicate in a proper way.

Thanks for listening to my rambling, idiotic thoughts.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Keep rambling and posting. If you have something to say or you just feel distraught come here and post. It will help.
You need to read, read, read. You want your marriage so you are in a different palce then most wayward spouses. 
You need to figure out if she is having an affair. Go to the marriagebuilders website. Start there. Then go to Affaircare and read. Come back here and we can review things with you. There are plenty of people here that are willing to help.


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Hello again,

Well just to update everyone and ask some advice on where to go from here. My wife told me I could move back in yesterday so I came home. I'm currently staying in the guest room. We had a fairly long talk last night. Here's the gist of our talk. She said that she is still very angry and it's more so about how I've treated her the last year or so. She's also angry at herself for not sticking up for herself sooner. I told her that I didn't realize what I was doing to her before now but she doesn't believe that. She says that I knew how badly I was hurting her but I just chose to ignore it. She also said that she doesn't think she is what I want in a wife and if I'm completely honest with myself I will see that. I don't agree with this. I married her b/c I wanted her to be my wife until the day one of us dies. Sure I get frustrated with certain things, I'm sure everyone does in a marriage but I'm realizing now that the way I dealt with it before was the absolute wrong way to do it. I probably emotionally abused my W and I feel absolutely horrible for that. I want to change and I'm committed to changing how I deal with stress/frustration.

I just don't want to lose her but I feel like she's given up hope. I wish I saw what I was doing sooner and I also wish she had come to me sooner. I guess I knew what I was doing when I was doing it but I always thought that the good I did outweighed the bad and she saw that. But I never realized how badly she was hurting. She can remember exact sentences that I said to her from 5 years ago when I don't even remember the conversation. I say things in frustration and forget about them the next day but those hurtful comments stay with her for years. I think this is what makes me feel the worst. The fact that she is still hurting so badly from something I said that I don't even remember. I'm currently looking for a new job as I know my current job brings too much stress/anxiety to my life. I'm also going to counseling and reading books both to give me the tools I need to properly deal with frustration/anger.

Does anyone have any advice on how to ease her anger and hopefully give us another chance? Thanks for listening.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

I am an internaliser like your wife, and when I tend towards these behaviours I will seem to take things well on the surface but they sit inside like a wound. It is hugely damaging behaviour, completely unhealthy and it will pervade every relationship in her life- family,friends, children. Its a learned response, usually comes from childhood that is instable, where you daren't express your feelings because your world is too shaky and you don't dare add to the trauma. Your wife thinks its normal because its just what she's done as long as she can remember. She needs help with this. 

I think the above is pertinent to how she reacted about your revelation. She kept it all in to begin with but then, like any build up of pressure, there has to be a release. Then by the time its released all sorts of things are added as you can get a fair bit of overthinking in and completely distort the original event. 

You want to get it back. She's let you move back in. Both are good steps. You both have alot of work to do now. Have a good look round here. There's lots of people's stories, and book recommendations to help you get started. 

I wish you luck.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

I am also an "internalizer". Therapy has helped me learn ways to try to not let things fester, to reappear in later discussions. I am not respecting myself, by not speaking up about my feelings, and not respecting DH, by not letting him know how I feel. We are both learning conversation techniques.

DH and I are recovering from 4 YEARS of visits to strip joints. 
I must say, I would not be able to deal with this, without couple's counseling. What I am reading is that you are bending over backwards to try to "fix" what YOU broke, but what about HER handling of the indiscretions you mentioned in your first post?? EAs are just as damaging, sometimes more so, than PAs(hope I got the acronyms right). How long ago did you find the texts? 

It swings two ways, and I personally believe, if she wants to help save the marriage, she needs to go to counseling with you, as a couple.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

So this went from a "I think my wife is having an EA" to "I got oral from a stripper" to "I (may) have treated my wife badly for the past year".

Sounds to me that the stripper thing was the last straw.

HOWEVER, you both need to see the marriage counselor. Not just you and maybe her alone. A marriage counselor will help guide the discussion so that things get aired in a civil manner. If she hasn't liked the way you have treated her over the past year, she has to be able to communicate that, not lock you out of the bedroom/house.

I know you love her but if she doesn't go to the marriage counselor with you, she will just feed on her anger without resolution.

And the texts need to be part of the discussion or else you'll be feeding on YOUR anger.


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Just a quick update. We briefly spoke when she got home from work today. Just small talk, nothing serious as I knew it would anger her. I've been spending most of my time in the guest room. She is going to work tomorrow and then spending the weekend at a friend's house. I asked her if she made an appt with the counselor and she said she hasn't. I told her I loved her and she kinda begrudgingly said "Love you". I probably shouldn't have but I then said, if you don't mean it, just don't say it to say it, I was just letting you know that I still love you and am committed to our marriage. She then got quiet so I went to the guest room. We spoke briefly before she went to bed and that's it.

I feel like she has given up on us which sucks b/c she's not giving me a chance to show her that I'm changing. My heart feels broken right now and for the first time I'm feeling like my marriage may be over. I know I screwed up and maybe I need to come to grips with the fact that my mistake may have been the tipping point to the end of my marriage.

As I said, I know I haven't always been the best partner and haven't always treated her like the beautiful person she is but I know I'm not a bad person and I tried to show her that I love her with all my heart.

At this point I don't think she'll come to counseling with me and I don't want to push her too much right now b/c I know she's still very angry. The friend she is going to stay with this weekend has already told her that if I was her husband she wouldn't even talk/text me let alone see me. So I'm sure a weekend with her friend won't help. I'm just lost right now and feeling really down.

Thanks for listening.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

howardtheduck,
I don't think its healthy for the marriage if wife "goes to a friends" this weekend. 
I think shes hidding from the marriage. she's not showing commitment.
Does any one have a solid idea on how htd can keep his wife from "going to a friends" with out pushing her?

"going to a friends house" just sound to fimilar to me and I totaly agree w/ htd , this visit want help.


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

Ok, I really need some advice now.

Things obviously are pretty tenuous with my W. She did leave for work yesterday and supposedly stayed 2.5 hours north of where we live with her friend. I got a couple text messages from her last night and that was it. She did tell me that she called the counselor for an appointment for herself.

I logged onto my cell phone account and did a little snooping. The number of the guy from work that I suspected of EA last year was on there as it usually is but this time she sent a text to him at 9PM last night (Friday). Then she got one from him at 8AM this morning. I thought that was a little strange. So I logged onto her email and she has booked a hotel room for tonight about 30 minutes from our house and about 5 minutes from where she works.

I don't want to jump to conclusions b/c this guy from work has a live-in girlfriend but it's hard not to.

Why wouldn't she just come home if she was going to drive all the way back down this way? Could it be that she's just still so angry at me that she doesn't want to come home for a Saturday night and see me in the house?

What do I do? Do I confront her about it? If I'm wrong that will infuriate her. Please anyone have any advice.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

I don't know about anyone else....but I would be VERY tempted to show up at that hotel tonight. I can think of only one reason for her to need a hotel room.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Stay cool and calm down.
Your right, she will be very mad so keep quit and continue to investigate.
If you show up at the hotel she will know your looking and she can change passwords and so on.
If you go stay low and observe who goes in and out of the room. get there before Check-in, whatch front desk, whatch which room she goes to. Just stay low. If you start to feel weak call her like nothing wrong and see how she's responding to you.

I have found that when my wife was NOT with the OM the texting continued throughtout the night. When wife would go out with "friends" the same pattern you mentioned accured.
It went something like this 1st and only text in PM- "lets meet" last text in the AM went like this " great time thank you".

You need undisputable evidence before you confront.

If she is being faithful then she really is still mad about the stripper.
But I still think she has another reason for not working/repairing the marriage. You need to find out, and keep the investigation quit until you can confirm that she is either faithful and still mad about the oral thing or if her EA has turn to PA.
Stay focused' once you have the information then you can move on to the next step. Until then she she will deny everything and continue to point the finger at you.


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## howardtheduck (Aug 4, 2010)

It's over. She found out I was checking her email account. This I think is the last straw. I feel like crawling in a hole right now. I don't believe she was doing anything behind my back. She was just so angry that she wanted time and space and I didn't give it to her. I still felt the need to check up on her. What is wrong with me?

She told me she is coming home tomorrow to get some of her things and then leaving again. I'm pretty sure I just ruined my marriage. I feel like the worst person in the world right now.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

;-(


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Checking someone's email shouldn't be the death knell unless the person being checked has something to hide. Hire a PI. You need to know. You gut should be screaming. 
Most of us here have simply done the usual marriage extinguishers. You are at another level. She is going to tell friends and family how bad you've been to justify her behavior. So you have to get a step ahead of her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with you. but there's something wrong with the marriage and wife is just as accountable as you are. The question is What is wrong with the MARRIAGE!
Your 1st post indicated her EA and your incounter with the stripper, you BOTH have issues. IT IS NOT ONLY YOU IT IS BOTH OF YOU AS A MARRIED COUPLE!
Stop blaming your self and stop it NOW! Please think of it as "we" not "you". Come on every one knows it takes two for a marriage to work/not work, so please stop this crazy talk of "what have I done". 
Lets say she's not seeing any one and she just wants her space. Sound like SHE doesn't want the marriage to work by being angry and wanting to move out. Is she going to be angry the rest of her life? How long does she need space. She is still our wife and I think you need to set boundries and time lines. If she has fallen out of love with you then you need to move on so you can find the woman who will be commited and FORGIVING. 
If you can get control of the situtation and to do this you will need to set ground rule. For instance if she wants to pick up some things tell her she needs to take all her things (if she already has come by, pack up the rest), if she want to talk then you set the when and were, if she wants space set a time line for that. 
I remember a story where the H wanted his wife back so bad but he committed to two weeks of no contact. He never returned her text or phone calls, and by the end of the week she was dieing to talk to him. This guy said it was the hardest thing he's ever done. He did admit that for the 1st week she didn't even try to contact him and he so badly wanted to call her but he stayed strong and it help start the communication again.
Good luck and remember its not all about what you did, and you will get through this.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> It's over. She found out I was checking her email account. This I think is the last straw. I feel like crawling in a hole right now. I don't believe she was doing anything behind my back. She was just so angry that she wanted time and space and I didn't give it to her. I still felt the need to check up on her. What is wrong with me?


You don't give enough information to let anyone know what is wrong with you - or if ANYTHING is wrong with you. You _have_ indicated some problem areas in your marriage which need some serious work, but I see nothing that points out any flaws - other than those that pretty much everyone has. So step one: stop worrying about what is wrong with you. In fact, the faster you abandon any self-pity the faster you'll be able to get on with what you need to do. One thing you can do is simply take some deliberate time to feel sorry, and get it out of your system. That's a very effective way to deal with it!

What you are going through is nothing new. It is pretty much 'scripted' behavior. You suspect your wife may be cheating - in fact, you may have some pretty concrete knowledge that she is - and you started to look into it, she sensed that - and reacted in the normal way that someone who is in mid-affair often does: blame you, make you feel guilty, responsible, and the cause of all the trouble. It's ok! -she is free to do that - 

but...!!! ..... 

_YOU simply don't have to fall for it!_ Let her do it all she wants! Your job is to not be affected by ANY attempts at manipulation!

My very first piece of advice is to distinguish between what you did (your affair some time ago) and what your wife is doing. While there are some ties between the two, your behavior in NO WAY can be the cause of any affair she may be having now. Her decision is entirely distinct from your actions. 

So, separate them in your mind: you had an affair. You told your wife about it, and hopefully took the medical steps needed to make sure there was nothing wrong. There may be work you both need to do to resolve the issue - 

but - - - 

_No _work can be done on your marriage until you are certain your wife is NOT having an affair. If there is an affair ongoing, it is impossible to do any work on your marriage. It just won't happen, nor will any efforts be of any use. 

So - right now, your best bet - should you be willing to work at saving your marriage - is investigate what your wife is up to. 

You received some advice earlier that it would be a bad idea for you to follow your wife to the hotel she had booked. I disagree entirely. Any evidence you gather is for your benefit - if you have sufficient proof that your wife IS having an affair, you are on the road to recovery. 

Read this article carefully: Seven steps to ending an affair.

Start with step one, and do not move on to any others until you finish that step! 

You'll find that you will begin to feel better about yourself as you proceed. Stay on this forum! Vent, worry, ask questions, etc. We can help you! 

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