# Virtually no sex, wife inscrutable. In despair.



## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Been together 10 years, married 5. 
2 children. I'm 39, she's 32.

She will only ever sleep with me once every 3 weeks to a month. And even then it has to be before bed, with the purpose of getting me off, she even complains that I take too long.

She climaxes very quickly (she says), and then just wants me to finish. I don't think she is climaxing at all but fakes it, in fact I wonder now if I ever made her climax at all.

Also, she only finally relents and gives me this once a month/3 weekly "pity root" when she can see that I finally can't take it anymore, and am really getting irritable and aggravated to the point in interferes with my life. Only then when she has avoided it for as long as she is able, and with me on the point of breaking down at the lack of intimacy, does she "magically" rediscover her libido, and initiates (drags me) to bed. 

I never initiate now, because after years of getting my hand pushed away, or my kisses shrugged off, it just hurts too much to be rejected, so I don't bother. And she seems fine with that.

When I try to talk about it, or have a virtual breakdown at feeling completely emasculated (after months of emotional neglect) after questioning myself (Am I a Man to her? What is wrong with me? Am I ugly but never realized it? Am I too short? Is my penis too small? Am I not doing enough?) she gets angry and says "I'm not twenty anymore, I'm not horny all the time!" She also has framed my periodic mini-breakdowns over this as me being "psycho", and I think now just conveniently writes it off as such, without ever stopping to really LISTEN to me.

What kills me really is the lack of intimacy, the sex is just part of that. It is like she is a blank wall, and no matter how hard I try I cannot understand her, or she won't LET me understand her or open up truly to me. I then get this gnawing fear that perhaps the fact she won't is that I am simply not her "type" deep down, and that with some tall, outgoing male she would instantly become a passionate woman unrecognizable to me.

Also, although not as bad lately as I blew up at her over this facet and has toned it down, she would seem ALWAYS angry with me, it got to the point I would dread coming home from work knowing how just, "pissed off" with me she would be. And for no discernible reason. Constantly. 

She thought I didn't work hard enough, I started working harder, getting night work too, and weekend work. She said she was just tired from watching the kids, and doing chores, so I do the dishes now every night. Zero change. There's just a different excuse every time for her unhappiness. 

No matter how hard I try, I have always done something wrong, somehow, in some way. 

I get no answers, she just says "everything is fine, I'm happy, stop worrying OK!" or blows up and yells at me to stop being psycho, yet here I am, in this situation, and I don't know what to do to make her happy, and to re-connect with her. It is like she doesn't really respect me, and thinks she is making an effort just by being a "wife".

When I get no answers, and feel powerless, I start to break down and start obsessing and analyzing stuff that happened 10 years ago in a desperate attempt to get answers into her mind, or what the state of "Us" is...

I've never so much as looked at another girl while with her, I go out of my way to protect her self-esteem and her heart, I tell her she is beautiful and sexy very regularly, and mean it, but it is like my compliments mean nothing to her. 

She has also done several small things that I just cannot get over because she just won't admit them, or won't explain or apologize or "come totally clean over" so it is like I can't get past them. And she now just thinks I am "psycho" when I bring it up, despite being small incidents, they COULD have become much worse had I not been vigilant, so these memories are like wounds that just can't heal, and cause me to resent her when I get this way and start dwelling on the past in this frustrated sexless isolation.

If any of you have managed to read this far, AM I being "psycho"?

Is once a month sex for ten minutes where she pretends to climax and complains that I take too long normal?

What can I do? She says everything is fine, but I feel like I am on a freeway with a blindfold on, and at any time some "other male" could seduce her with hardly any effort at all, just by telling her she is attractive and repeating her opinions back to her to make himself seem "just the same" as her. She says the kids make her tired, but I read of endless stories where mums with kids start energetic affairs, so the kids clearly don't get in the way of their energy & libido if they don't want them to.

Days like today, sitting here typing with this sick knot in my stomach, unable to eat or focus on work, I just feel like chucking it all in and walking. She makes me feel worthless, I get angry when I look in the mirror and think to myself "I can NOT be as worthless and ugly as she makes me feel, who the F**K does she think she is?"

I've suggested counselling several times, she usually is open but resistant to the idea, I think because she thinks only marriages about to divorce have counselling, though she has said she will do it to make me happy. My fear though is that the counsellor will simply take my wife's side just because she is a woman, and me being a man I must be a sex-crazed paranoid monster etc


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

NO you are not psycho.

I could write a book in reply to your post, suffice to say that I understand where you are coming from. The emotional pain is horrendous.

Just swap the genders and my story is similar to yours but with the added burden of being the woman who's husband rejected her in this way. Also in my case sex was far less frequent than yours, it almost killed me. The lack of intimacy and connection can warp your mind so you need to know that you are not losing your mind or a psycho.

My ex kept telling me he loved me but one day it came to me like a lightning bolt, "if he truly loved me why did he not care enough to take action in order to fix this problem"?

TBH I don't think there is a long term fix for this problem with most couples. It takes 2 adults and in these cases it seems one of the adults is OK with just living like this forever so their needs are being met. To me that reads as they don't care or love their partner enough to ensure their happiness is a priority.

Read the forums here, the world is littered with people going through this. Someone here put me onto this site
Experience Project - Personal Stories about any Life Experience
which is also full of similar stories.

These 2 quotes from that site stick out for me....



> They don't want you, they only want you around.





> You can’t nurture a relationship when there’s zero intimacy.


You are not going to make your wife want you in this way, people will tell you to do more for her but you already are.
Now is the time to do some really hard thinking about your future.

As for me, I started to suffer health issues because my situation was so bad, chest pains, hair loss, weight gain etc but I stayed for the kids.
One day I woke up and could not take it anymore so I ended my marriage.
2.5 years later I am with a wonderful man, we are very compatible in so many ways. The sex is true love making, intimate, wild and passionate. We communicate, laugh and just enjoy life together.

I now know that it is OK to have a good, healthy sex life as one of the foundations of a good relationship. Before I felt like I was dirty and bad for wanting sex, he never understood it was intimacy and connection that I really wanted.

Do not waste your life, you are an important person, you have normal needs and desires and you deserve to be happy.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Definitely not normal.

She says she is happy and stop worrying. So, let's take her at her word. Don't start doing more around the house, questioning her loyalty to you, or otherwise shaking things up (yet) unless there is more to it than you are telling here.

Instead, have a nice sit down. Tell her that you accept she is happy and you are pleased to be meeting her need. Clarify for her that you are not asking for sex because you doubt her love, need to be reassured, have self esteem issues, etc.

Instead, she needs to know that you simply have a need for more sex - likely much more - than she is providing. You need to be physically intimate with her several times a week and she needs to be there enthusiastically. Since she's not providing that, you are (in contrast to her) not happy.

Since she is happy, meeting your need cheerfully should not be a problem for her. I would cautiously expect that she will adjust her behavior to meet your need (although you will have to go through the process of determining how to meet your need in a way that works for her too).

However, it is possible that she will not be happy with that. IOW, her contentment might be precisely because you are only having sex one a month or so, and having more will turn her off in itself. If that is the case, you will have to decide to leave it alone, or press for more sex knowing that you are jeapordizing your relationship. If you find this latter approach necessary, you will have to tell her the relationship is in jeapordy, start the "cool off" and let her decide whether to meet your need or walk away.

Good luck on this!

ETA: Do this soon. I'm concerned that not being able to let the small things go is evidence that the lack of sex is damaging your relationship by allowing resentment to take hold. She needs to know that resentment is starting to fester and you want to resolve this issue before it turns from a potentially fixable sexual issue into "I can't stand the sight of you".


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Married man sex life and

"No more Mr. Nice guy."

read those books immediately

She lost attraction to you because you do all the stuff she asks for. You are her maid, not a lover.

And just in case :
Any chance there is someone else in the picture ? Does she show typical "signs of infidelity"(Google them up)


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

My wife had/has many similar traits and our sex life was crap for years. Only lately after much aggravation has she begun to let some f the ice melt. 

I began by trying some different things like buying new toys, 50 Shades book and that seemed to spark something in her. She began to admit that her LD is a problem tst needs to be addressed and I also bought her DHEA supplements Tory and boost her libido. 

Are things perfect now? No, but they are incredibly better and we hve been getting along great. Sex does promote happiness in a marriage and once both parties come to te same conclusion, then things can begin to get better.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

You know sometimes reading a book or doing less around the house is not the solution. The OPs situation is not just less sex, it is far deeper than that. When you get to the point of second guessing your sanity or thinking you are psycho the the problem is so deep it becomes a health issue.



> What can I do? She says everything is fine,


 she is fine but what she is saying is that it just doesn't matter to her that he is not fine, he is not a priority to her.

I wonder how many sexless, non connected marriages really improve after reading all these books?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Holland said:


> I wonder how many sexless, non connected marriages really improve after reading all these books?


Mine did. We were doing it once every 5-6 weeks up to march of this year for the prior 10 years. This month (September) we did it 12 times. I read mmslp and also took advice on communication from this board, ignoring posters who seemed to suggest nicing or serving my way through.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Mine did. We were doing it once every 5-6 weeks up to march of this year for the prior 10 years. This month (September) we did it 12 times. I read mmslp and also took advice on communication from this board, ignoring posters who seemed to suggest nicing or serving my way through.


Yes and that is wonderful, I real a lot of your posts and am glad your situation is good 

But did you have such a bad situation to begin with? There are parts of the OP that just scream out to me that this is such a deep rooted situation that may not be all that fixable. 

OK so what I am trying to work out or say is that if the basic situation is say 6/10 on the not so bad scale is it fixable but if it is 2/10 is it fixable?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Holland said:


> You know sometimes reading a book or doing less around the house is not the solution. The OPs situation is not just less sex, it is far deeper than that. When you get to the point of second guessing your sanity or thinking you are psycho the the problem is so deep it becomes a health issue.
> 
> she is fine but what she is saying is that it just doesn't matter to her that he is not fine, he is not a priority to her.
> 
> I wonder how many sexless, non connected marriages really improve after reading all these books?


Thank you all for the responses, I have so many more questions to ask, but can't type for long, I have my son to look after at the moment.

Yes Holland, this is affecting my health alot, I cannot describe the stress I feel, I cannot eat, have lost weight, cannot focus at work, I am sick with anxiety, my self-esteem has bled away to zero, I don't even feel like a Man anymore, my ability to enjoy anything is tainted. It may seem over-reacting, but this situation has ground on for years, and it is getting to the point I just don't have the strength to bear and just get along with life "like nothing is wrong" anymore. The rejection on every level from her is just eating me away inside out.

I talked with her again twice before, the first time she just sat silently, looking upset/sour, and it ended without her really saying a word. After she just sms'd me smalltalk about our son's school, and pretyt much tried to sweep it under the rug, as though "Oh, he's vented his steam and got his yelling out of his system, now we can just get on with it again"

So I tried again just before, and she STILL smirked at me when I said how sexless marriages were 10 times a year or less, and that that is what we were verging on. When I pushed the issue, and said "Look, even NOW you are laughing at me about this, even though I am falling apart in front of your eyes!" then she went silent, but she managed to get out of the argument when my son fell over so she had to run to him. So still I didn't get anywhere really.

One thing she said "I don't see how we (meaning our sexlife) has to go back to what it was before we had children"

She just refuses to acknowledge, in her heart, that there is a problem, that we have a problem, that NORMAL married couples out there ALSO dealing with children STILL find the time for each other and are intimate and connected.

She's watching me fall apart, a little more each time I have one of these "breakdown" episodes, and just doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong, and is puts up a wall even when I present her with facts and figures of what healthy normal marriages are like.

I love her, I really do, but I'm going to die an early death if this keeps on, it's eating away my mind and soul and manhood to nothing.


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## smilinatu (Jan 9, 2012)

Spurned,
I am very sorry about what you are going through and I do not think you are over-reacting at all. You are understandably in a desperate situation and need to look after your own needs right now. Are you getting any counseling for your own well-being. If you are not, I think you need to find yourself a counselor you feel comfortable talking to. I am not talking about marriage counseling. I doubt she would be a willing partner. But for now, you need a professional you can talk to. If you have health insurance, it will probably pay for this. If you don't, seeks out a church or other charitable organization that may be able to help or point you towards some help. Please respond to me - PM if you like. I am worried about you.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Thank you all for the responses, I have so many more questions to ask, but can't type for long, I have my son to look after at the moment.
> 
> Yes Holland, this is affecting my health alot, I cannot describe the stress I feel, I cannot eat, have lost weight, cannot focus at work, I am sick with anxiety, my self-esteem has bled away to zero, I don't even feel like a Man anymore, my ability to enjoy anything is tainted. It may seem over-reacting, but this situation has ground on for years, and it is getting to the point I just don't have the strength to bear and just get along with life "like nothing is wrong" anymore. The rejection on every level from her is just eating me away inside out.
> 
> ...


.....what makes you think she feels the same way about you? and why do you think she really cares if you die an early death or shrink away to nothing?? Maybe it hurts to confront the honest answers....but you know, in a good marriage those types of questions are not so tough to confront.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Why are you allowing this woman to destroy you?

Please get yourself into counseling asap!

Once you get healthy which means not basing your entire worth & self-esteem on her treatment of you, you can address the sexless marriage issue.

Your children need a healthy Father.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Married man sex life and
> 
> "No more Mr. Nice guy."
> 
> ...


Please don't LOL, I know a lot of sad, oblivious males say this despite the fact their wife's cheating is practically on an industrial scale, but there is no other Man to the best of my knowledge. I have pretty good instincts, and infact my "gut" saved our relationship on two occasions. 

#1, she got a new job, and became infatuated with her Boss. #2, she got a new job, and became infatuated with some young male. I caught wind both times VERY early, due to her behaviour, and accurately deduced both times who it was.

Though having said that, she may very well have learned over the past decade how intuitive I am, and I may merely have trained her to be even BETTER at concealing herself. 

Those incidents are actually among the issues I dredge up to myself when having a "breakdown" like this. To this day, she will not say in plain english to my face "Yes, I lost my head, became infatuated with them, and started to hate you for no reason as a result, and I am sorry, ask me any questions you like to help clear your mind and heal" 

Nope, all I ever got was vague admissions, excuses, rationalizations, etc. From reading this site all day, I can see it is the usual fare that straying wives and GF's dish out to the men they are betraying.

She also kissed some other man at a concert she was attending with her sister. Apparently "just a peck on the cheek" but to this day I think she was just admitting to enough to soothe her OWN conscience, and has never told me the full story. She only stopped when her own sister said to her "That is cheating".

I ask myself, how much further would it have gone had her sister not stepped in to burst the bubble/fog of her just going with the moment with this man who bought her a drink.

But anyway, I shall find those books and read them right away. 

All the replies here are really helping, it is extremely calming to know that there are people out there in the world who will take the time to listen and support me, I don't feel as cornered, you are all really helping me, in my unfortunately extremely real predicament.

Back to the topic, I've spoken to her on and off throughout the day, and I *think* I may have ever so slightly penetrated her mental wall of steel. But even so, I have a suspicion that her "robot" mind will simply process my outbursts as;

"Male provider I am married to unhappy with sexual output and affection. Must pat male provider on the arm every 36 hours, and say "My. You. Are. So. Attractive. I. Can. Barely. Contain. Myself. Right. Now". Must also increase coitus frequency and employ new strategies to assure provider male that he is proficient at coitus".

And it will go on, without her ever really being able to love me enough to open up to me.

Also, the first BF she was obsessed with and destroyed over when he cheated on her and left her was a cliched "badboy" with the tattoos and motorbike, etc.

And the 2nd "flame" in her life that she fell head over heels in love with, and who just used her like a sexdoll then dumped her was, surprise surprise, a tattooed meat-head with a borderline retarded IQ.

And then she picked me, the introvert, to marry. It kills me to admit it to myself, but on the surface it just seems to me that she has a preference for "badboy" males who will treat her like crap, but settled on me as she realized she was all she had the currency to afford.

And there have been other sad incidents, like when we were crossing the road, the little man had turned green on the traffic lights, so were were hurrying to get across, but crossing the other way was a group of males, and one of them was obviously a model and very good looking. As they passed us in the middle of the road, she stopped, turned around, mumbling something incoherent like she was drunk about "Awwwww, I, umm, the shop back there, ummm, uhhhh" and started following him.

Right in front of my face, she was so taken with this attractive passing male that she physically had no control over herself and followed him like a zombie in a trance for about 50 metres. I was so stunned I said nothing, I couldn't believe what was going on, and was so beta I didn't know what to do.

She acted like I was a "psycho" when I brought it up the next day, but I ask myself if she, when stone cold sober and right next to me, can't control herself to that extent, who knows what she may have done behind my back. And how much can I truly mean to her.

And she has done that more than once.

Just typing all this out, I feel like an idiot, she has made it out all along as though I should feel lucky for being with her, when actually she should be thankful she found any male willing to stand by her at ALL..

I think I need to find my balls again.

I have two awesome, perfect kids, but in the name of all the Gods, I wish I had just kept walking that day in the beginning when we were supposed to be in our "honeymoon" period when she followed that male model bloke like a zombie in heat, and had never spoken to her again.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Why are you allowing this woman to destroy you?
> 
> Please get yourself into counseling asap!
> 
> ...


Emerald, I don't know, I guess she has all the power. It is dawning on me just how sad a male I have become. 

I just assumed you could trust and rely upon your spouse to cherish, protect and nurture your pride and self-esteem. It seems despite me thinking I was wise to everything, that I am actually to this day a naive sap.

You are right about extricating my self-worth from her holding, I have been a sad fool to think I could trust my wife to care about me and my feelings. After reading this forum all day, it has shocked me how women just seem to be able to casually destroy the men they allegedly love, and not feel any remorse or anything.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Please don't LOL, I know a lot of sad, oblivious males say this despite the fact their wife's cheating is practically on an industrial scale, but there is no other Man to the best of my knowledge. I have pretty good instincts, and infact my "gut" saved our relationship on two occasions.
> 
> *#1, she got a new job, and became infatuated with her Boss. **#2, she got a new job, and became infatuated with some young male.* I caught wind both times VERY early, due to her behaviour, and accurately deduced both times who it was.
> 
> ...


Her libido is fine IMO. She has no respect for you and therefore no physical attraction to you. I would bet money that she is having an emotional affair if not having a physical affair with someone (or a few affair partners on the side). OP, I'm very sorry if this opinion hurts you, but that is what I think. You need to start working on a 180 - a little program to change who you are for the better. It's not designed to save your marriage, but it's designed to help you to cope better with what's going on and in the meantime help you become a better person. You need to start getting your self respect back and it starts by telling her "no". You seem to do an awful lot of things for her around the house plus work your own jobs and she has demanded you to work overtime regularly? Start cutting it back big time until she learns the meaning of the word respect.

FYI, her demanding you to work overtime on nights and weekends is a huge red flag that she is using this to 1) get extra money for an affair and 2) get you out of the way for her to have the affair. You need to dig into this to figure out if she is cheating on you. I think the signs are there that she is.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> And even then it has to be before bed, with the purpose of getting me off, she even complains that I take too long.


Mojo killer right there


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Please don't LOL, I know a lot of sad, oblivious males say this despite the fact their wife's cheating is practically on an industrial scale, but there is no other Man to the best of my knowledge. I have pretty good instincts, and infact my "gut" saved our relationship on two occasions.
> 
> #1, she got a new job, and became infatuated with her Boss. #2, she got a new job, and became infatuated with some young male. I caught wind both times VERY early, due to her behaviour, and accurately deduced both times who it was.
> 
> ...


Sorry dude, but your "good instincts" suck. I'm guessing she already has something on the side. It sounds like she's always on the hunt and you were lucky to catch a couple of them. But you can't catch them all.

You need to do a lot of deeper checking and see what she is doing, and do it now.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Sorry dude, but your "good instincts" suck.


LOL, truth hurts



> I'm guessing she already has something on the side.


There is no OM, trust me what it is, is that she is having all her "needs" (emotional, connection, self positive reinforcement at her being a good Mother, etc) met by our children. From reading here for 16 hours straight, I see that this is not an uncommon situation.

Not that there wouldn't be an OM one day. The problem for me is her "sexual" side, her inner woman, she has locked down, and has zero intention or ability of opening "her" up to me. Despite all my efforts. But one day when the kids are older, and she has more time on her hands, and perhaps she has a crisis because she is in her mid late thirties all of a sudden, THEN she will be become image conscious again, and will have a growing need to sexually re-affirm herself, and will start putting herself in situations where something could "just happen" with another man.

I can see the Freight train coming, but I can't avoid it as I am tied to the tracks, as it were.

If she ever goes back to work, my God I will be watching her like a Hawk.



> It sounds like she's always on the hunt and you were lucky to catch a couple of them. But you can't catch them all.


Yeah....her zero impulse control and overnight, almost schoolgirl like infatuation with these males I mentioned, still kills me to this day. To know that this wife of mine whose body is sexually dead to me can, with a click of the fingers, become a passionate sexual creature absolutely drunk with lust, if the right male crosses her path.

I dunno, I am just numb today.

We had a deep talk about it all last night for hours, and I finally got through on one or two things that I had been bleeding over for years. But even after all that, her only suggestion today was "I can see you're unhappy, perhaps you should go to a doctor and get tested for depression"

I mean, are you f**king KIDDING me? Of COURSE I am depressed, and SHE is the one who reduced me to this state, yet after everything I said all she could come up with was to somehow make it MY problem.

I shot her down in flames, and she backed off completely and accepted she was wrong, but I dunno, I am beginning to wonder if she even has the intelligence to grasp what I am saying to her.

She STILL said, just before, "I'm tired, I have to deal with the kids, it's not fair for you to want some hyper sex-porno sessions every night"

So STILL she cannot hear that all I want is what is NORMAL in healthy relationships: Intimacy, and a NORMAL sex life, with a NORMAL frequency. My needing that makes me a sex crazed nymphomaniac porno-beast to her mind.

When I said this to her, and also said "I also am a parent raising kids, I also work and very hard job, yet I still make time for you EVERY day, why can't you do the same" 

And she just didn't answer, and stood there like a stunned mullet...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Does she suffer from depression and/ or Bipolar Disorder? Something deeper than sex is going on.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DTO said:


> Definitely not normal.
> 
> She says she is happy and stop worrying. So, let's take her at her word. Don't start doing more around the house, questioning her loyalty to you, or otherwise shaking things up (yet) unless there is more to it than you are telling here.
> 
> ...


Okay, I've read some more on this thread. I agree strongly that she probably has her emotional needs met by the children. You said yourself that she treats you like you are lucky to be around her. To me, that paints a picture of someone who pegged you as the reliable person who would parent and provide well. You are a companion and assistant, not a partner, to her.

Were I you, I would not worry so much about whether she is having an affair or not. I don't believe that a woman should get extra consideration for shutting down shop instead of screwing around - not when she's that disrespectful to you (the attitude and conduct which says you are lucky to be in her presence).

In that case (and I lived this with my ex), where she is not trying to work on meeting your need and being closer to you, my policy is to take a "no fault" approach. That is, either she is meeting my need or she is not. Once I know I am making a solid effort to meet her need, and she refuses to work with me, it then becomes up to her to make it work.

Carry yourself like you are just as worthy as she. If she does not want to engage you in a mutual relationship, you don't have time for her. She can do whatever she wants, because you have better things to do. Either she is taking care of you or she is not.

As an aside, I believe those who say women usually will not maintain an open sexual relationship with more than one guy at a time. If she gets back to being close to you, that's a strong indication that she's not out screwing around.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Why are you still paying this womans way? I bet she controls the check book and you put your paycheck in there every week like a good lil boy. She doesn't take you serious.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

After you do all the required reading, get yourself into counseling because I do think you are depressed. She did not make you this way but is contributing to it. This will also show her that you are making an effort to help the marriage by helping yourself.

I think you are a good husband but she is taking you for granted. 

She needs a wake-up call.


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## inmygut (Apr 2, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Married man sex life and
> 
> "No more Mr. Nice guy."
> 
> ...


This! Read the books. Act. Bring back some self respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Holland said:


> You know sometimes reading a book or doing less around the house is not the solution. The OPs situation is not just less sex, it is far deeper than that. When you get to the point of second guessing your sanity or thinking you are psycho the the problem is so deep it becomes a health issue.


A book can be the solution if it is written specifically about the problem, which MMSL is. And it's not just sex. As you know, sex is about intimacy. It's about emotionally connecting with your spouse.



Holland said:


> I wonder how many sexless, non connected marriages really improve after reading all these books?


Mine did. And it was bad. Crisis mode. Shopping for lawyers and all that. Until I read MMSL and improved.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

To the OP, you're not crazy. You're fairly typical. Since your wife has had at least four incidents of lust for other men, while married to you, she is capable of feeling lust. Your wife just isn't feeling lust for you.

The good news is that you may be able to change that. Read Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. and implement the MAP.

Basically, you're a 10 on the beta scale and a 1 on the alpha scale. You need to balance those. One of the four incidents was a male model. Nothing you can do about that. Women like pretty boys. While you can become more physically attractive, if you're not stopping traffic now, you probably can't get to that point. So forget about that.

However, your wife had two passionate affairs with bad boys and got very lustful for her boss. Those guys had power. They were alpha. To your wife, they were sexy. So you have an understanding of what she is attracted to.

What you have to do, is to be alpha. She likes alpha and is attracted to alpha. So, you have to be sexy to her. And that means stop talking to her about the problem.

She isn't interested in your feelings. She understands that you're not happy. Communication is not going to work here. What will work is for you to change.

If you start working out to improve your health and physical appearance, she will notice. If you start taking care of yourself and your kids, without any deference to her opinion, she will notice. If you start paying attention to other women, and they pay attention to you, she will notice.

And she might become attracted to you. And if she doesn't, another woman will.

Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Please don't LOL, I know a lot of sad, oblivious males say this despite the fact their wife's cheating is practically on an industrial scale, but there is no other Man to the best of my knowledge. I have pretty good instincts, and infact my "gut" saved our relationship on two occasions.
> 
> #1, she got a new job, and became infatuated with her Boss. #2, she got a new job, and became infatuated with some young male. I caught wind both times VERY early, due to her behaviour, and accurately deduced both times who it was.
> 
> ...



Please read the books that I suggested in my last post. 

And keylog the sh!t put of every device she uses. (home computer, laptop etc)...She kissed another guy when her sister was there...Imagine what happened when she was alone. If she is cheating, you need to find it out. Or rule it out. You can fix nothing if she is seeing other people. Good luck


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Please read the books that I suggested in my last post.
> 
> And keylog the sh!t put of every device she uses. (home computer, laptop etc)...She kissed another guy when her sister was there...Imagine what happened when she was alone. If she is cheating, you need to find it out. Or rule it out. You can fix nothing if she is seeing other people. Good luck


Thank you for all the responses, even though I don't have the time at the moment to respond to you all adequately, trust me, just reading them and knowing people out there are prepared to listen help me more than you can know.

Again, there definitely isn't an OM now, not to say there WON'T be an OM in the future, as she, as of this moment, still hasn't shown me she understands herself and her blindsides, or her own sexuality, or reassured me the "peurile schoolgirl" in her is dead. Until she shows me she has sat down with herself and looked inward and confronted some hard truthes about herself, how can I be sure she won't just lose her head again next month?

It is hard to give you all a complete picture, I think her parent's loveless cold marriage may have programmed her into thinking it was normal for the wife to have contempt for their loving husband, as her parent's "marriage" if you want to call it that is a cold, almost certainly sexless, abusive toxic relationship where the wife hates the husband and has reduced him to the level of an emasculated guinea pig.

The compartmentalization of her roles as "woman" and "wife/mother" has to f**king end though. 

I am not her maid, and feel angered that she would reserve her "inner woman" for tattooed retards, whilst spurning me.

We have talked alot of the last day or so, there will no quick fix, but the next few weeks willshow whether she is serious about changing, or whether she has even heard me.

I've had a good afternoon, other women have shown clear interest in me, and it gives me a healthy self-esteem perspective, as opposed to being chained to her perpetual rejection of me.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sorry your're here and unfortunately, yours is not a ubique story. Many above have given you great advice. I would offer the following thoughts to you.

1) I know you say nothing is going on with other men, but I would* remain very vigilant. Check the phone records and keylog the computer*
2) Stop begging for sex and stop talking to her about it. It makes you look weak and has done nothing but turn her off.
3) *Start manning up and working on your self*. Get in shape. Find new interests. Find some guy friends. These activities will help with your self confidence and esteem. Practicing meditation can also help.
4) Begin the 180 This is a process of detachment is for you. If she approaches you half heartedly for sex. Politely refuse and tell her sex is not a burden in a healthy relationship 

As you move down this path she will either recognize the changes in you and her attraction will increase, or it won't. Give yourself a defined period of time for things to improve and if the don't, calmly let her know that this isn't working for you and it is time to divorce. You are done living in a passionless marriage.

Good luck. Do not put up with this much longer. Do read the married man's sex life book previously discussed.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

KanDo said:


> I am sorry your're here and unfortunately, yours is not a ubique story. Many above have given you great advice. I would offer the following thoughts to you.
> 
> 1) I know you say nothing is going on with other men, but I would* remain very vigilant. Check the phone records and keylog the computer*
> 2) Stop begging for sex and stop talking to her about it. It makes you look weak and has done nothing but turn her off.
> ...


Thank you for your good advice.
1) I know some think it is insecure, but I am an adherent of the "trust, but verify" school of thought. 
Were I not, who knows what might have happened.
She deletes any sms that mentions me, or in which she criticizes me now though, however.

I know there is no other male ATM simply given her personal habits, and almost total lack of personal "attention to detail". She'll happily lounge around in tracksuit pants, and although conscious of appearance, she clearly doesn't see the need to "make any effort" right here and now. 

2) Totally agree. I have to just shut my mouth and start ACTING the right way, as opposed to blubbering and appealling to her reason, of which she has none.

3)Again, agreed, I have to withdraw the total investment of myself I have placed in her. I never get out and about, so I never get a chance to gauge the average female's opinion of me/my relative attractiveness. After only several hours of me being "me" and getting a haircut, buying a new top, I already had two completely unsolicited and long conversations with clearly interested females. I already feel better. I already AM in shape, I am very well built, and go to the gym regularly. Not that she notices.

4) Really well put. I actually made a mistake and slept with her last night after a heartfelt talk. Even as I was doing it, I knew it was the wrong thing to do. I want her bad, but even if she comes onto me tonight in a "magical" rediscovery of libido, I have already steeled myself to fob her off.

I need distance, and I need to know who *I* am again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She opens up to other men yet not to you, and you say she's not cheating... I would call them emotional affairs, so yes it's cheating

The advice given so far is consistent and I have to agree with them



> I've had a good afternoon, other women have shown clear interest in me, and it gives me a healthy self-esteem perspective, as opposed to being chained to her perpetual rejection of me.


Much better attitude

Personally if I was you, in YOUR position, I would seperate/divorce on the spot, or in the past, I would have cheated so easily and frankly won't feel guilt

How you can take all of this and yet do nothing is beyond me in my opinion...


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

I never touched a drop of alcohol until I was 23, believe it or not.

My father drank like an idiot, and my Mother, who essentially raised me, was against drinking, so I was raised to have a stigma about drinking/alcoholism.

And yet my wife has reduced me to drinking alcohol to cope.

And then blames me for it on top of it all.



WTF happened to my balls....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Harden your heart... well, that's what I do, something I learnt at a young age, so no one can control me emotionally ever again, despite how naive I was as a young child, I was traumatised

I was hardened to the point I could feel nothing however, so that wasn't good either. Nowadays I'm much more balanced, however, some lessons have to be learnt. Channel that frustration and disappointment, turn it into anger and hate, and despise each and everyone of your weaknesses, your downfalls, HATE the fact you don't know where your balls went.

Then SPIT on that thought, and tell yourself, FK THAT
I'm NOT a *****, I WON'T be treated like a doormat, I HATE this BS and I ain't putting up with this sh-t no more, I'm taking CONTROL of MY life...

Well that's what I said to myself all those years ago anyways, I was 12


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Emerald said:


> After you do all the required reading, get yourself into counseling because I do think you are depressed. She did not make you this way but is contributing to it. This will also show her that you are making an effort to help the marriage by helping yourself.
> 
> I think you are a good husband but she is taking you for granted.
> 
> She needs a wake-up call.


You know, I cannot argue with any of that.

There are other issues, and facts, regarding our relationship, but in essence I can see the truth in this.

I'm trying to implement a vague version of the "180" as I understand it, just for my own self preservation, and I am overwhelmingly happy after only 3 hours of it.

I just want space from her, and all her bullshtt with her family etc, right now.

I am in my computer shed, that I built with my own hands, and I do no intend to go back inside into "her" realm until I am good and f**king ready.

She needs a serious reality check, this sounds bad saying this, even though I love her because she is my wife, at the same time I can objectively appreciate that she isn't really all that good looking. HOW she has the gall, and nerve, to treat me like an ugly, worthless, castrated guinea pig, is beyond me. 

I know I am depressed, and Emerald is right, I have to deal with my OWN depression, but at the same time, my wife's retarded expectations are laughable. Even if I left her, the kind of male she thinks she is "entitled" to, or deserves, or reserves her libido for,....

What the F**K would that kind of Man want with her? A below average looking suburban mum with 2 kids and poor physical condition and no personality and nothing to offer at all, really.

I feel like a f**king idiot even having let this Creature control my self-esteem at ALL, let alone for the past 10 years.

I love my kids, but really don't even want to see "it" as I type this


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes... yes!!! I can FEEL your anger, it makes you powerful... makes you STRONGER 
Sorry, bad timing...

But it seems that you are learning, whatever you do however, don't do something stupid like take it out on her
If anything, you should pity her, and move on

If there's anything to hate, it's your own mistakes, and vow to learn and never repeat them again. Use that anger to weld that together.

So... those ladies checking you out, could be a sign -> GET OUT THERE


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

surPRISE, SURprise.

The cold frigid robot mum, and her beta eunuch husband have shown up at EIGHT PM to invade my space and ORDER me to explain myself, I imagine.

I am a tolerant pushover, but if they dare to enter MY F**KING shed and start dishing out ultimatums to me, they better watch themselves. 

They all just came out, hovered around the shed door, then obviously chickened out and ran back into the house.

The fact she has gotten her parents to come over and "back her up" is a sign she is scrabbling for an angle to feel "self-righteousness" and still hasn't or isn't or can't or whatever able to just sit still in silence, and look inwards deeply, and confront herself. It's easier to get Family back up to enable and validate her, apparently.

I will f**king walk if she dares to even TRY to flip this back on me. The next few hours will be interesting. I couldn't even care if I died at this point, why would I care if I lost her, for what she is worth....

Dumb obtuse btch....

Bad move, woman, getting those defective folks of yours around to "back you up"......

edit: F**K my world is small. I am reduced to my shed, that is all I have of my dominion. Like some Emperor whose realm has been whittled down to nothing by unending attacks by Enemies.

My shed, and the Gym. 

I don't even want to see her face, as I type this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Reminds me of that time when I had to man up myself, my wife got as many people as she can on her side as well, including her family. It's very manipulative and self-serving behaviour.

Still, I can see the anger, but it's not being channeled right yet, it's out of control at the moment. You don't want that. The most powerful hate is when you hate yourself most of all. I'm not saying you should, but this "tolerant pushover" inside you, fk that! Kick him out

Just like when I was 12, I wouldn't survive if I remained a little kid, no, I killed him so I could force myself into manhood and do what I have to do to survive on the streets after being left there. Same principle here, kill that weak piece of sh-t inside of you


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

You don't have to limit yourself to the shed and gym. That is your house RECLAIM it! 

Has she offered any explanation as to why she sent her parents out to hover around your shed?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Reminds me of that time when I had to man up myself, my wife got as many people as she can on her side as well, including her family. It's very manipulative and self-serving behaviour.
> 
> Still, I can see the anger, but it's not being channeled right yet, it's out of control at the moment. You don't want that. The most powerful hate is when you hate yourself most of all. I'm not saying you should, but this "tolerant pushover" inside you, fk that! Kick him out
> 
> Just like when I was 12, I wouldn't survive if I remained a little kid, no, I killed him so I could force myself into manhood and do what I have to do to survive on the streets after being left there. Same principle here, kill that weak piece of sh-t inside of you


It's easy to say, but to enforce an enact such a big change, it is not easy. This is my life we are talking about. My whole being and identity I am sitting here and dwelling on how sad, spastic and broken, I was.

I feel stupid at remembering all the romantic sappy things I did for her. I feel like an idiot. I used to dote on her, like she was a Queen ("Galadriel" was my pet name for her, doesn't that make you laugh? I'm certain now it made her cringe, and feel disgust) I feel so f**king stupid, it is laughable to think that this is MY life! And all along, at any time, she would have given herself up completely to the first mouth breathing tattooed "gorilla" who ordered her to get on her knees and eat his shtt.

I have to sleep, I need to get up for work in 8 hours, but I really cannot bear going back inside to face "it", I don't want to see her, I don't even care, at this point. I might get my work gear together and go sleep in my car somewhere.

I am really in a bad place, and every time I think about shooting myself, I have to stop and think about my boy and how that would affect his life. She has f**king ruined me.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Holland said:


> NO you are not psycho.
> 
> *I could write a book in reply to your post, suffice to say that I understand where you are coming from. The emotional pain is horrendous.
> 
> ...


 Me too, sadly.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> You don't have to limit yourself to the shed and gym. That is your house RECLAIM it!
> 
> Has she offered any explanation as to why she sent her parents out to hover around your shed?


Broseph, I am posting in real time, this stuff is happening as I type it, I haven't even been back inside to speak to "it" yet.

After only 3 hours of going to the shops and being "me" I had other women, good looking girls too, talking to me. WTF have I let happen to myself for the past 10 years.

My favourite painting that I ordered from Sweden, and had a custom frame made for, she took down and shoved into the cupboard.

My son's 5th birthday, she informed me that my brother and his kids weren't invited. She even organized the birthday during a work day when she knew I couldn't attend so as not to upset HER folks. So I, and my family, weren't even allowed to attend my own son's birthday.

The more I sit here dwelling on it, with the benefit of a slight outside perspective given I actually got to go into the outside world for three hours this afternoon, I cannot believe how sick this girl is. I love her, have given her everthing, all my mistakes (and I have made many) I have manned up to and changed. But she treats me like an Animal. A worthless, flea bitten f**king animal.

I am going out this weekend.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Spurn...

Please DO NOT SUCCOMB TO ANGER. THAT LEADS TO THE DARK SIDE! (couldn't help myself)

But it's true. You need to withdraw, detach and separate. Instead of anger, you need to project an air of indifference. No lashing out. She will feel vidicated in her position if you act poorly. You position needs to be
1) I am a man and husband and I desrve respect.
2) The only person I can control is me and as I man, I will control my anger
3) I refuse to prioritize someone who doesn't prioritize me
4) I refuse to remain in a passionless marriage any longer.

Polite, indifferent and in control. Don't be manipulate into giving her justification for her poor behavior.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

What is life, anyway. 

I am so tired, I dunno what the f**k is going on, I don't have the innate ability to play games and twist things to my advantage, no matter the objective reality. I'm just in pain, all I wanted was a woman who loved me, and somehow it seems the answer is to plau some big game where I trick her by being aloof and all that.

What IS that? I'm too tired to care. What is WRONG with women.

I am so tired I feel like my eyes are going to bleed, and I feel like just getting my rifle and shooting myself right now. I'm too tired to even have the strength to be bothered with these games, if that is what life is.

If I leave "it" I never want to touch or speak with a woman again


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Get some sleep and leaves this for tomorrow(today)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> It's easy to say, but to enforce an enact such a big change, it is not easy. This is my life we are talking about. My whole being and identity I am sitting here and dwelling on how sad, spastic and broken, I was.


Yup, just like how it was when I was 12. To be honest when I had to put the foot down on my wife years ago to make her realise how sick and tired I was of her BS and that I will NEVER EVER bend knee to anyone - it was actually MUCH easier. After you go through it once, you can do it again, and again, and anytime. Something my wife under-estimated how quickly I could harden the fk up and show her who the fk is boss.



> I feel stupid at remembering all the romantic sappy things I did for her. I feel like an idiot. I used to dote on her, like she was Queen. I feel so f**king stupid, it is laughable to think that this is MY life! And all along, at any time, she would have given herself up completely to the first mouth breathing tattooed "gorilla" who ordered her to get on her knees and eat his shtt.


Well back when I was 12, I had a similar but also different issue. I was a very obedient child, loving, tried hard to make my mother proud and happy with me, despite her boyfriend never liking me around. I never got it, I was used like a slave and scapegoat. Then she told me to get out of the house because her bf didn't want me around anymore. I was 12 yrs old, I was in disbelieve, panic, and thought my life was over.

I cried and begged for time to find somewhere to live, she didn't care, she just wanted me out - she always listened to her bf over her own only son. I managed to find some heart in her to give me a week... In silence alone in my room, that's when it started... within 3 days.

First day... paralysis. I did not eat, I could not move, I was there staring at the wall until I passed out. Second day, I snuck out and grabbed some food, heard my mum and her bf going at it enjoying themselves in her bedroom while I was suffering... and the anger started. I didn't stop it, I let it in. I HATED MYSELF... I felt so DISGUSTED with my own naivete that a mother should love her only son, nope, I wised up. I felt so DISGUSTED she made me beg and cry, I swore never to do so ever again. 

All I have suggested, I did on the 2nd day. Third day, I was gone, and it was the beginning of 6 yrs of crime - but I survived, and in the end, I became stronger and wiser from it. The hate persisted however, and the only way I was able to find balance - was to stop hating the GOOD things about myself, and learned to forgive myself, though I still hated the bad.

I don't know if this even helps but I just hope this can inspire you that it is very possible for anyone to harden the fk up. Sure it IS your life but is this how YOU WANT TO LIVE YOUR LIFE? FK IT!!!



> I have to sleep, I need to get up for work in 8 hours, but I really cannot bear going back inside to face "it", I don't want to see her, I don't even care, at this point. I might get my work gear together and go sleep in my car somewhere.
> 
> I am really in a bad place, and every time I think about shooting myself, I have to stop and think about my boy and how that would affect his life. She has f**king ruined me.


Nah, don't kill yourself, she doesn't deserve that satisfaction.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

KanDo said:


> Spurn...
> 
> Please DO NOT SUCCOMB TO ANGER. THAT LEADS TO THE DARK SIDE! (couldn't help myself)
> 
> ...


Agreed, I was a victim of manipulation at 12, just as you are now OP... I was stupid, naive... weak

Spurned, like I said, you have to channel that anger and hate internally, to help you bring change in your life. Use it like a tool, not have it control you. The dark side of the force can be a double edged sword... sorry... can't help myself either

Oh BTW, got a song for you, was just listening to it and the lyrics seem semi-suitable heh, either way, just listen to metal 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BFOzG5X0Q&feature=related

Sedated they kept us all dormant 
Unknowing, our lives lives in vain 
Like mindless drones we're devoted 
We've welcomed our fate as their slaves 
Prepare for victory 
Our minds have been awakened 
Rid your life of tyranny 
We are the resistance


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I am so tired, I dunno what the f**k is going on, I don't have the innate ability to play games and twist things to my advantage, no matter the objective reality. I'm just in pain, all I wanted was a woman who loved me, and somehow it seems the answer is to plau some big game where I trick her by being aloof and all that.


The first thing you need to do is to do to your doctor TODAY and get on anti-depressants. Right now. Go ahead. I'll wait.

OK. I'm assuming you've done that. The second thing you need to realize is that you're not alone. Millions of married men have unsatisfying sex lives. Some women do too, but men are usually the high drive partner. Yes, you deserve better. But, you're just typical.

The third thing you need to realize is that you're waking up to a new reality. It's most often referred to, in an homage to The Matrix, as taking the red pill. You thought women were one way and now you're finding out that they're not. It's understandable. It doesn't mean you're stupid for not knowing. Many women don't even know this stuff. And you'll never see it in magazines, or on television, or in movies. You have to experience it to figure it out.

The fourth thing you need to realize is that the red pill reality doesn't involve games. If your goal is to be attractive to your wife, there are no games required. You just need to accept the new reality and adjust your behaviors according to that reality. That means ignoring what your wife says and paying attention to what she does. That means ignoring what your wife says she needs and giving her what she actually needs. You can do this.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> What IS that? I'm too tired to care. What is WRONG with women.


The thing is, there's nothing wrong with them. They are the way they are. You can accept it and deal with them on those terms, or you can refuse to accept it and try to deal with them based on terms you saw in Eat, Pray, Love.

Look at it like women are bees. If you approach a bee hive wearing a beekeepers suit and carrying a smoker, you can harvest some delicious honey. If you approach it with chocolates and a poem you wrote, you're going to get stung. Does that mean something is wrong with the bees? No. You just didn't handle the situation correctly.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I am so tired I feel like my eyes are going to bleed, and I feel like just getting my rifle and shooting myself right now. I'm too tired to even have the strength to be bothered with these games, if that is what life is.


Dude. Double up on the anti-depressants. Seriously.

The good news is that you can turn this around. You can learn how women think, what they think is sexy, and you can be sexy. You can turn this around.

Even if you can't turn it around with your wife, there is no shortage of women who are looking for a sexy guy. You can still succeed with women. All you have to do is not give up.

Good luck.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Her libido is fine IMO. She has no respect for you and therefore no physical attraction to you. I would bet money that she is having an emotional affair if not having a physical affair with someone (or a few affair partners on the side). OP, I'm very sorry if this opinion hurts you, but that is what I think. You need to start working on a 180 - a little program to change who you are for the better. It's not designed to save your marriage, but it's designed to help you to cope better with what's going on and in the meantime help you become a better person. You need to start getting your self respect back and it starts by telling her "no". You seem to do an awful lot of things for her around the house plus work your own jobs and she has demanded you to work overtime regularly? Start cutting it back big time until she learns the meaning of the word respect.
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, her demanding you to work overtime on nights and weekends is a huge red flag that she is using this to 1) get extra money for an affair and 2) get you out of the way for her to have the affair. You need to dig into this to figure out if she is cheating on you. I think the signs are there that she is.


:iagree:


*Sorry I think your W is cheating on you. What you need to do is stop working so much. This will give you time to pay attention to your home. If she is not taking care of your needs, you don't have to care about her needs. That W might be using the extra money to support her affair. If she is not getting it from you, she getting it from somebody. It could be an online friends. Do you have a webcam? You would be surprised what people are doing online now. But you working overtime, cleaning, and helping with the kids and can't get no loving WTF. That is just BS and you need to stop putting up with it. Forget working nights and weekends you start going to the gym and working out. You start living life without her . She is playing games with you. Let me tell you a women has need too. Your W has someone taking care of her needs . You don't fall for her lies . Everything is ok because she got you working like a dog . Then her OM is just for the fun on the side gtfoh. *


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> Why are you still paying this womans way? I bet she controls the check book and you put your paycheck in there every week like a good lil boy. She doesn't take you serious.


:iagree:

*It might be hard to think of your sweet wonder W as a cheater. Let me tell you women want sex just not as much as men. Again if she not getting it from you she getting it from somebody. She sounds like a cake eatter. The red flags are going off big time*.


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## missmolly (Jun 10, 2012)

SLH my heart goes out to you. No man deserves to be in the position that you find yourself in. No person does for that matter, male or female. I just don't get how people can be so unkind and disrespectul to each other. 
The others are right in the books that they suggest, partic Married Man Sex Life and No More Mr Nice Guy. 
The former is an easy read and as a women, I found it really helpful also. 
I also support what the others have said in that not only can they help to turn this relationship around into something more satisfying for you, if it doesn't work out and you end up moving on in the future, it will assist you to accept no less than the respect that you should and must have in a healthy relationship. 
And remember, it's YOUR home also so go and get some sleep!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Spurned,

What did you think of the MMSL book?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

It is very difficult to read stories like yours, I married a nicer man (more beta, introverted)... to think women just use them like this, discard them, ignore their needs, it makes me want to scream.







.. No man should put up with this treatment - how some of you can continue to love, it astounds me....you shouldn't. I so want you to turn the tables on her. 

If I was you, I would Hire a private EYE, catch her in action, and take her to the cleaners in divorce ~ if that is possible. Hiring a Private Investigator to Catch a Cheating Partner: The Pros and Cons  

I seen the *180* mentioned earlier... if you want to take that route....Here is a thread I found on google with the list spelled out >>



> Plan A vs. 180 Plan - Marriage Builders® Forums
> 
> 180
> 
> ...


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Spurned,
> 
> What did you think of the MMSL book?


I'll post a review in several days if you like. For now, what can I say? "Truth hurts" is all. Awakening to the bitter truth that you have spent your whole adult life the very epitome of what females have contempt and feel repulsion for, all along thinking you were ticking all their boxes, it left me feeling gutted, and even somewhat violent.

My mind is still now though, my INTP brain cannot deny the objective truth of the patterns therein. Whuttya do?

"fake it 'til you make it" I guess.

I need to practice just talking with other women, that is clear. I have forgotten how to even speak with other women conversationally it has been that long. I lost myself to "it" and my marriage, and I never should have allowed that to happen.

I am very much awake now though. I would not be surprised at all to find years from now that she had been f**ked by half the males at every workplace she was ever employed by while with me. Especially after reading all the stories on here of WW's and the how unbelievable the scope of their lies are. 

I am employing the 180 to the best of my ability as I type, I don't want to divorce really as I cannot describe how much that would destroy my son, who is the reason for my existence, he has dyspraxia, and is very socially awkward and extremely attached to me, but at the same time, I really couldn't give a flying f**k whether "it" lived forever, or spontaneously combusted this very second.

We'll see how this pans out. I just want to be whole again.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> "Truth hurts" is all. Awakening to the bitter truth that you have spent your whole adult life the very epitome of what females have contempt and feel repulsion for, all along thinking you were ticking all their boxes, it left me feeling gutted, and even somewhat violent.


I understand you are very angry at your wife. Please do not blame yourself. Not ALL women are like her. Many women would not feel "contempt & revulsion" towards you. Many women truly like a nice guy who is loyal, trustworthy, honest, hard-working & kind despite all the beta/alpha books & those are the very traits that are attactive to us. I just hate to see you get jaded due to the selfishness of your wife.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Women say they want one thing and then are surprised when they get it and aren't as attracted as they thought they'd be. They really don't know what they want. You can't change biology. 

Emerald I find it interesting that you say some women are sexually attracted to nice beta guys. But that isn't true for you is it? You'd like it to be true. But didn't you say you're asexual? So you're not attracted by anything sexually. Or am I thinking of someone else who is asexual?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

They all say they want a "nice" guy but all to often society interprets that as being a doormat. We have subscribed to the "happy wife, happy life" mentality and have lost our dignity in the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

I have to keep a rein on myself, I am starting to really hate women, and their programming. I know now I can never open up, or give any part of myself to a woman, otherwise she will reflexively feel disgust for me. All the reading I am doing here is freaking me out, I feel like I've spent my whole life disabled, but no one ever told me. I'm reminded of Aesop's fable about the scorpion and the otter (or whatever) where the scorpion, after begging the otter for a ride across the river, just stings the otter halfway across, then tells the otter " I'm a scorpion what did you expect"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Not ALL women are like her. Many women would not feel "contempt & revulsion" towards you. Many women truly like a nice guy who is loyal, trustworthy, honest, hard-working & kind despite all the beta/alpha books & those are the very traits that are sexually attactive to us. I just hate to see you get jaded due to the selfishness of your wife.


This sentiment is referred to in the Intertubes as NAWALT.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I have to keep a rein on myself, I am starting to really hate women, and their programming. I know now I can never open up, or give any part of myself to a woman, otherwise she will reflexively feel disgust for me. All the reading I am doing here is freaking me out, I feel like I've spent my whole life disabled, but no one ever told me. I'm reminded of Aesop's fable about the scorpion and the otter (or whatever) where the scorpion, after begging the otter for a ride across the river, just stings the otter halfway across, then tells the otter " I'm a scorpion what did you expect"


And that's exactly why you can't go around hating on women. Women are women, what they've always been. The thing to hate is the bogus programming of males and women, by these creatures, into believing things that are contrary to our natural instincts. Instincts which cannot be overridden by the cortex, no matter what. 

Do you hate the ocean, because your beach house gets washed away? Of course not; you hate the real estate agent who told you the sea never reaches that far up. You realize you were lied to, then you realize you knew the facts all along, but chose to suppress them, then you rebuild and put the house on stilts next time. And you still have a blast playing in the ocean.

You don't hate your dog if it bites you, and you sure don't hate all dogs because of it. But you do learn to train your dog better.

Women are so influenced by cycles and hormones and chance encounters, their inability to hold liquor, and they fact that they're only truly attracted to the top quartile of men at best, that there is no way the reality can live up to their own hype, amplified by the "church" and the other manboobs, that they are morally superior to men.

Once you get comfortable seeing the world as it is, you'll do fine. There are millions of great women out there, but they're just women, not the supernatural beings they like to be portrayed as.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

The problem here spurned is you. 

Stop saying you love your wife, its weakens anything and everything you attempt.

I want to, but I love my wife

I was thinking, but I love my wife

Weakness. 

You say you love her but thats not love, all your doing is using that in the place of "I'm dependent on"


This problem can be solved so quickly if you'd man up and do it. Throw all your insecurites in the wind for 5 minutes and tell her where you're coming from.

Not b!tching at her, not whining, but that you have needs.

Decide, are you prepared to have a sexless marriage this early?

No bullsh!t either, yes or no

If your answer is yes, then consign to a lousy future.

If your answer is no then its time for some A & E intervention

Sit her down and say something along the lines of

"Sex may not be high on your list of priorities, but it is on mine. Sex isn't just getting off, I can do that perfectly fine by myself. I want to have sex with you because I want to be intimate with you, my wife. When you refuse me constantly or acquiesce and act like its so bad to have sex with your husband, it hurts me beyond belief. Its extremely painful to see that my wife clearly doesn't give a sh!t about me, and anytime I talk to you in seriousness you ignore me or change the subject. That hurts me even more. I love you as my wife, but I have no desire to be in a sexless marriage before I'm even 40. I want to work this out, maybe you have psychological problems, maybe you have hormonal problems, but if you can't be assed to help your husband feel some intimacy from the one woman he swore himself to above all others, I will be forced to get it elsewhere, and make no mistake I am perfectly capable of doing so. I would't be cheating though, because we would be divorced first. This is the position you have put me in where such drastic measures are necessary. Don't try to brush this off. If I don't get an answer back within 24 hours I'm gonna put an attorney on retainer. I'm too young to be living like this."

^ And you say none of this in a whiny or complaining tone, this comes from a place of strength and resolve.

Instant respect, instant seriousness, instant change in your life whether she listens or not.

You are not even forty yet spurned, don't accept this.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Women say they want one thing and then are surprised when they get it and aren't as attracted as they thought they'd be. They really don't know what they want. You can't change biology.
> 
> Emerald I find it interesting that you say some women are sexually attracted to nice beta guys. But that isn't true for you is it? You'd like it to be true. But didn't you say you're asexual? So you're not attracted by anything sexually. Or am I thinking of someone else who is asexual?


Right. Edited out "sexually".....


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> The first thing you need to do is to do to your doctor TODAY and get on anti-depressants. Right now. Go ahead. I'll wait.


I hear you, but what good are anti-depressants ultimately? I don't think I am a depressed person naturally, at heart, and I think that were I to address the complete evisceration of my identity and self-esteem that has occurred right under my nose (One of you here used the saying about "boiling the frog slowly" to describe it, and I can see the truth of it) then my confidence would return like a tsunami, once fixing myself AND being emotionally detached from the "black hole" of my wife.



> Look at it like women are bees. If you approach a bee hive wearing a beekeepers suit and carrying a smoker, you can harvest some delicious honey. If you approach it with chocolates and a poem you wrote, you're going to get stung. Does that mean something is wrong with the bees? No. You just didn't handle the situation correctly.


I understand the metaphor, but at the same time, if the bees are going to sting you, to death if they are able, then why hang around bees? And don't say "Honey". I mean, if a man has to be forever "alone" inside to protect himself against women, then what is the point?

I could just walk, buy 50 hectares on King Island, absolute beachfront, and live in peace fishing & farming. And where no female could ever attempt to destroy me again. Me and my dog.




> The good news is that you can turn this around. You can learn how women think, what they think is sexy, and you can be sexy.


Yes, but what they seem to be attracted to at a gut level is apparently subjective (all a matter of whether she perceives you to be alpha or beta), can be faked, and is a bit sick anyway. I dunno, I am definitely feeling a bit jaded, and angered, about women at the moment.



> Even if you can't turn it around with your wife, there is no shortage of women who are looking for a sexy guy. You can still succeed with women. All you have to do is not give up.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you. Though if I can heal myself, become complete, healthy, happy, and totally devoid of all need for women, why would I want to jeopardize all that by exposing myself to the tentacles of yet another woman?

But ignore the rant above. I am just a bit cynical after my ugly wake up call, and can see that about myself, and am just taking it one day at a time, trying to follow the 180, and focusing totally on me.

It's early days, I am not folding to her, in fact with every passing day I am getting more angry about things. I just wish I had the past 10 years of my life back. Even now after all our heartfelt talks, I can see past her eyes, into her mind, and it is apparent that she doesn't even really understand herself at all, much less understand all the things I am telling her. She is just like a great big vapid sack of primordial reflexes.

And I am supposed to love that, am I?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I hear you, but what good are anti-depressants ultimately? I don't think I am a depressed person naturally, at heart, and I think that were I to address the complete evisceration of my identity and self-esteem that has occurred right under my nose (One of you here used the saying about "boiling the frog slowly" to describe it, and I can see the truth of it) then my confidence would return like a tsunami, once fixing myself AND being emotionally detached from the "black hole" of my wife.


I don't see anti-depressants as a cure-all. But, they are fairly effective at making you feel better. I agree that your depression is a direct, and understandable, result of your marital stress. And I agree that improving your marital situation, whether that is improving relations with your wife, or divorcing, will improve your level of stress and your depression. But, I think you should discuss anti-depressants with your doctor to tide you over until your situation improves. Especially if your suicidal comments from earlier in the thread were even remotely serious.

Improvement will take months. Anti-depressants can help you feel better until you see improvement.

However, I will acknowledge that there is one serious side effect with most anti-depressants. A small percentage of people experience sexual side effects while taking anti-depressants. And a small percentage of those people have long-term effects, even after discontinuing their medication. But, if you're in a bad enough state of mind, the risk may be appropriate.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I understand the metaphor, but at the same time, if the bees are going to sting you, to death if they are able, then why hang around bees? And don't say "Honey". I mean, if a man has to be forever "alone" inside to protect himself against women, then what is the point?


Beekeepers don't view bees as menacing creatures. They legitimately enjoy interacting with them. Yes, they do it for the honey. But, once you gain an intimate understanding of bees, you no longer fear them. And managing them just becomes second nature.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I could just walk, buy 50 hectares on King Island, absolute beachfront, and live in peace fishing & farming. And where no female could ever attempt to destroy me again. Me and my dog.


Some men have chosen to do exactly that. They're called Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW). I have empathy for them. But, I don't see the need.

The fact is, you got caught. You have a child with a woman. Sailing away forever means you don't get to see your child anymore. And you'll have to mail her a check for child support anyway. So, your choices are to reconcile your marriage so that you and your wife interact well with each other, and can love and respect each other, or you divorce her and you both interact with each other poorly. But, either way, you will have to interact with her for the sake of your child.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Yes, but what they seem to be attracted to at a gut level is apparently subjective (all a matter of whether she perceives you to be alpha or beta), can be faked, and is a bit sick anyway.


It's really not that subjective. It's very predictable. You already know your wife. Once you learn the basics of women in general, you can easily adapt the basics to understand exactly what kinds of behavior your wife is attracted to.

Yes, you can fake the behavior for a while. If your goal is to go out on the town and get laid in under six hours, you can fake it completely. You can quash any semblance of beta behaviors, ramp up your alpha as high as possible, and lie your butt off until you're in the sack. But that won't work in a relationship. Women in long-term relationships want the alpha stuff, but they also want the beta stuff. Long-term success with a particular woman requires some fundamental changes in how you interact with her.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> I dunno, I am definitely feeling a bit jaded, and angered, about women at the moment.


Sure. For someone in your situation, the red pill isn't pleasant. But, it's better than the alternative. The alternative is to continue in your blue pill existence. To let your wife continue to disrespect you. Eventually to make you a cuckold and divorce you, while you respond by serving your wife in greater, and more humiliating ways. You should feel jaded and angry. The good news is that your anger doesn't have to be permanent. You can use it as motivation to improve yourself. You can become a person who has relationships with women on his own terms.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Thank you. Though if I can heal myself, become complete, healthy, happy, and totally devoid of all need for women, why would I want to jeopardize all that by exposing myself to the tentacles of yet another woman?


You don't have to. But, assuming you divorce your wife, there's nothing that says you can't enjoy a woman's company without committing half your income to her forever. You will be surprised at what women will gladly provide a man without any semblance of commitment from him.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> But ignore the rant above. I am just a bit cynical after my ugly wake up call, and can see that about myself, and am just taking it one day at a time, trying to follow the 180, and focusing totally on me.


Good for you. Keep it up. Get in the gym and get some testosterone flowing. Adjusting your focus from her to you will only help you in the long run, no matter what you decide on your marriage.



SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Even now after all our heartfelt talks, I can see past her eyes, into her mind, and it is apparent that she doesn't even really understand herself at all, much less understand all the things I am telling her. She is just like a great big vapid sack of primordial reflexes.
> 
> And I am supposed to love that, am I?


I can't really answer. What I can say is that others have been where you are and have repaired their marriages. Don't give up on that hope just yet. However, you are beginning to understand her and that's a good thing.

Whatever you decide, you will probably be happier in the long run with a better understanding of reality.

Good luck.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I don't see anti-depressants as a cure-all. But, they are fairly effective at making you feel better. I agree that your depression is a direct, and understandable, result of your marital stress. And I agree that improving your marital situation, whether that is improving relations with your wife, or divorcing, will improve your level of stress and your depression. But, I think you should discuss anti-depressants with your doctor to tide you over until your situation improves. Especially if your suicidal comments from earlier in the thread were even remotely serious.
> 
> Improvement will take months. Anti-depressants can help you feel better until you see improvement.


Probably a subject for a different thread, but again I don't agree. Standard SSRI anti-depressants, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors work for people whose neurochemistry is faulty, and who NEED a chemical tool to help their brain's synapses recognize serotonin correctly. 

I think in my situation, an acute crisis of anxiety and stress, that one of the benzodiazapines (xanax, etc) might be useful to take the edge off my feelings, and make the next week bearable, indeed that is precisely how GP's prescribe them. For acute episodes of anxiety (grief, tragedy, divorce, etc)

But I intend to utilize neither. I know what I have to do. I simply have to find my balls and be a man.



> However, I will acknowledge that there is one serious side effect with most anti-depressants. A small percentage of people experience sexual side effects while taking anti-depressants. And a small percentage of those people have long-term effects, even after discontinuing their medication. But, if you're in a bad enough state of mind, the risk may be appropriate.


Again, my reluctance to take any drug comes from me having to take a medication called Inderal for some months, to alleviate severe migraines I was suffering. It made me tired, ruined my sexual function, and made me pile on the weight. And what do you know? My wife lost absolutely ALL attraction for me at that time. A time when I needed someone to support me, but because the medication made me put on weight, she was disgusted by me. The whole situation culminated in her "kissing another male" at that concert she went to, as I referred to in a previous post. A situation she has still to this day never volunteered all details on. It was after this, I raged at her, and started to go back to the gym, and stopped all medication.

So much for her "standing by me" in hard times, LOL




> Beekeepers don't view bees as menacing creatures. They legitimately enjoy interacting with them. Yes, they do it for the honey. But, once you gain an intimate understanding of bees, you no longer fear them. And managing them just becomes second nature.


Yes, but they are still bees, and they still WILL sting you the second you show weakness or stop "managing them". You cannot trust them, you cannot be one with them, you always have to be mindful of them, you always have to cautious.

And that is brutal truth to women and their "love"?

They are not giving me many reasons to like them at this point.




> Some men have chosen to do exactly that. They're called Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW). I have empathy for them. But, I don't see the need.


Who can blame them. I am tempted every minute of every hour.

The happiest moments during my marriage have been with my late dog. Fishing. Sharing a pizza together at Warneet. Going on long walks. His love was unconditional. 

I may end up just dropping out of this game myself.

I am really disappointed in the "truth" of females.



> The fact is, you got caught. You have a child with a woman. Sailing away forever means you don't get to see your child anymore.


I love my son with all my being, he is the reason for my existence, he is in my every waking thought, but at the same time, he is born alone and will die alone, like me. And if I have to leave him out of self-preservation, I will do it, even though I will have tears in my eyes.

But once I get to grips with this all, give me a week or so or reading and inner self-adjustment, and I anticipate I will be more balanced. I hope.



> Whatever you decide, you will probably be happier in the long run with a better understanding of reality.
> 
> Good luck.


Again, thank you. Just talking on this site is an extremely valuable outlet.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Your weakness and neediness is creating a problem. There is a serious problem in my view. 

1. Stop complimenting her. It is already perpetuating her view that she is so beautiful, you are so lowly, and that she can dain to provide a marital favor when needed. Every compliment you give damages your marriage. 

2. Get some nice clothes. Work out, Improve your appearance (almost everyone can). Don't have an affair, but she needs to start thinking she may have something to worry about. 

3. Do not ask her for sex for any reason. You need to develop a solution for this, and it will take some discipline. Every time you ask, you build up her already large ego and diminish your worth. Watch some movies, go someplace on your own. I am not suggesting you be unfaithful, I am suggesting a way to get your marriage back on track. 

4. Your badboy analysis is right on track. She sees you as weak and needy, and you need to address that. Constantly talking about your needs and hopes is not the way to address this. Showing her that you are independent and get on without her, address your own needs, and this will be an equal relationship is the way to go. 

5. I'd come home at different times, and be a little less reliable. Again, every time you meekly do what she wants, you show your weakness, and become less sexually attractive.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

I would also do things with your kid/s without your wife.

just the way she scheduled a bday for your son without you and her family.

I would show her that you can be a great Dad and the kids can have a great time with you, and without her.

Start showing more independence.

Do things for yourself. Do not hide in the man shack. Get out.

Meet people. Have fun.

Hell, go to a movie by yourself. 

Or go to dinner by yourself. My wife thinks I am crazy when I do that but i find it restful, relaxing and a way to think without much intrusion.

And vent here. Not to her. Throw off her expectations of you.

Time to switch up your life and hers!!!


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, it is therapeutic to read over my thread, I'm still in a deep dark hole, and trying hard not to become utterly cynical and jaded and resentful to all women. There is so much truth on this site, when you sift through it all, that it is amazing. Even today I had another incident with my wife which triggered this avalanche of feelings of total worthlessness, yet because of my reading here, I was actually able to arrest it somewhat, and to actually feel pity/contempt for her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

That is the key Spurned.

Stop those negative thoughts. Do not let them hold you back.

You deserve better so go find it.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> Thanks for the replies, it is therapeutic to read over my thread, I'm still in a deep dark hole, and trying hard not to become utterly cynical and jaded and resentful to all women. There is so much truth on this site, when you sift through it all, that it is amazing. Even today I had another incident with my wife which triggered this avalanche of feelings of total worthlessness, yet because of my reading here, I was actually able to arrest it somewhat, and to actually feel pity/contempt for her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spurned, so many of us are rooting for you. Don't let us down! 

Let us know how things go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Spurned...

You create your own despair. Lots of good advice given here... I'll add some.

Definitely build a better relationship with the kids they can be a source of joy... learn how become a better father. Start to become he man of the house and leader.

Provide security for your house... better locks (bump proof), emergency kit , family evacuation plan, car emergency kits, backup data, safety deposit box etc.

Do stuff you can without your wife... she'll notice the change in you. Fathering and security are two of her primary needs.You also want the kids on your side so they tell her how great you are. You want her to defer discipline to you in regard to the kids.

The key is LOOK IN THE MIRROR and change yourself. Your wife will notice. She will start to fall back in love with you. Change you for you and hopefully she'll fall in love with the new you. The old you sucks. The new you would attract virtually any woman.

Become an expert on Women's needs...google it.

Do something different for a while... i joined a social hiking club and shared pictures with my wife after each hike. Wife was impressed and wants to go where I hiked with me.

Takes Time. Be patient. Stand up to your wife.

If she still does not change then get to the you are good with or without her and have THE TALK... don't do that talk until YOU BECOME HER BEST OPTION put the odds way in your favor and have the high ground. Give her a choice A or B. Have her identify the issue, agree it needs resolved and in a timely fashion... hold her accountable. Stand up for YOUR NEEDS in the marriage! Not negotiable... you deserve for her to make you happy as your spouse. REMEMBER THAT ALWAYS!

Don't be afraid of your wife and stop asking for sex..sex is a EXPECTATION.

Remember RESENTMENT is like poison you drink expecting your wife to feel pain. Remember you control your own happiness.. don't become co-dependent. Hold your wife accountable for her actions.



Good Luck,
T2

More details later in a future thread.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

When we are down about our marriages we can only see the bad times. And we focus on them. Surely there were good days and times between the two of you? 

Maybe you should just tell her you need a trial separation. That would be the most sane thing to do under the circumstances. Pick out a visitation schedule for your kids in advance though. You could look for short term rental or a sublet. Something major has to change in your life.
Please don't judge all women, we are individuals like men are. 
Some of us are HD, some LD. But a loving partner would make the effort to make their partner happy. 

Separation will show you both that things have to change, or end. A wake up call for her. And a breather for you to see if you are happier on you own.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!! Trial separation or NOT


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

SpurnedLonelyHusband said:


> "I can NOT be as worthless and ugly as she makes me feel, who the F**K does she think she is?"


I really feel sorry for your predicament. Its a difficult one. I would encourage you not to swear about your wife or belittle her...you know that is not the right approach to have. And yes, I understand the many times of going to be hungry...starving and how frustrating it can be.

I have had a friend in a similar spot than you, but worse...he is currently going through a divorce because his wife was so controlling, she just random wasn't home when he got home one day from work. Sex was just a chore to my friend's wife and it was only initiated when by her terms and how she wanted it.

Unfortunately, there are many women who view sex as a chore. They never have embraced their sexuality. I personally believe that they were either never educated growing up or sex was viewed/seen as a dirty act by their parents. I think most parents do not educate their young daughters about sex and what role model to our sons learn from their fathers who are addicted to porn or have just plain left the family.

Solutions! Well...I would spend a lot of time romancing your wife and telling her how good she looks and the you appreciate all that she does. Tell her that you appreciate her body and the way she makes you feel. Women are crock-pots...they take a long time to cook the goods. Be more gentle, loving, patient with your wife...don't rush anything...don't demand.

You guys really need to work on communicating effectively and not getting in these stalemate arguments or just act like you want to avoid the topic or issue. That happens a lot. People think that as long as they avoid the topic, the issue will just go away. The real problem is, they know the issues but they don't want to face it, less they come to grips with their very own insecurities and failures. But failure wins when you accept defeat and give up. Get back to communicating. Communicate when you guys are not arguing...look for a peaceful time, when the kids are in bed.


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## pleasebehonest (Oct 11, 2012)

Wow! I could have written your post, but with the players reversed. I read the post by Holland, and I could have written that one.

I am now also going through the emotional pain of rejection that you described. Honestly, deciding to stay or go. In my case though, I get nothing, and I am not talking about sex. I get no warmth, no romance, no kind words, no kisses, no hugs. I get criticism, accusations, and constant "downer" words and actions. 

I'm sorry for what you are going through. I can so relate.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Spurned, here is the thing.

YOU came HERE. YOU f*cked up YOUR life with YOUR decisions.

Okay, so let's start the baseline. YOU don't know how to deal with this So far, you've acted incredibly surprised by all we've laid on you.

Now you don't want meds for depression. Rethink that.

I am reminded of a Mark Twain quote: I saw a cat sit on a hot stove once. She never sat on a hot stove again. But she never sat on a cold one either.

So, with the baseline that you don't know anything, LISTEN to this advice!

Stop being negative on yourself. 

Stop whining.

Stop hiding.

Go out and do things. Things without 'it' (That is the best thing you've said yet)

Don't have sex with her. Even when she decides things are slipping and throws you a bone. She broke this. She fixes it.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> Spurned, here is the thing.
> 
> YOU came HERE. YOU f*cked up YOUR life with YOUR decisions.
> 
> ...


Things have changed alot in the past week or so mate, LOL, whenever I feel myself "needing" her, I stomp all over those feelings, and think about me instead. I have this urgent need to become myself again. 

I think you're spot on with your criticism in many things, but wrong on some other counts. 

Anti-depressants are dangerous & personality altering and even here in this forum I have read of how it was anti-depressants and the dissociation they caused in WS's that made cheating so easy for them.

"Hormones alter behaviour, but behaviour alters hormones" is the endocrinology axiom.

I am working on repairing my mood and self-esteem through action. Am feel I am getting somewhere. I am training hard again, kayaking regularly, I even dusted out the old wetsuit and speargun and went for a snorkel. Stuff I used to love.

Seriously, anti-depressants are recommended too flippantly by GP's.

As for me and it, I'll write a proper update tomorrow or so, going out today and don't have the time to do a proper reply justice.

I'm never losing sight of "me" again, and never putting my self-worth at the mercy of another's opinion again.

One person who has helped is my new work buddy, he is extremely positive & outgoing, and has what seems to be a bulletproof self-esteem, it has been really good working with him the past week.

I also have found that when something happens (a comment from her, something on TV that brings back a memory, etc) that makes me start on this cycle of black thoughts that spirals out of control, I have to really use force of will to tell myself "NO, STOP!" otherwise I end up in the black pit again, and it might be a day or two before I get out. I have stopped myself several times now from spiralling into the pit, and being able to do so is proving to be extremely powerful in maintaining forward momentum. I still have a long way to go though. 

Again, thank you for all the responses on this thread, they are all helping me


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Bear in mind that this may not have her coming back and begging you to reconnect in remorse. She may not care at all anymore.

This is to help you get over that sad condition... And MAYBE spark her interest.

Has she changed her attitude at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

JCD said:


> Bear in mind that this may not have her coming back and begging you to reconnect in remorse. She may not care at all anymore.
> 
> This is to help you get over that sad condition... And MAYBE spark her interest.
> 
> ...


I've been trying to employ the 180 to the best of my ability.
Not to "get back" at her, but simply to rescue myself.

We had a huge fight, and I said alot of things, and she really didn't have much option but to consent to what I was saying, due to the clarity with which I said it.

She has "picked up her game" alot, and is "making an effort" to meet my needs, be affectionate, etc.

But even still, it shouldn't be forced, she shouldn't be feeling like it is yet another chore to deal with. She is going out of her way to provide more missionary sex before bed, in an affort to meet my sexual needs, but it is still horrible, really.

But I turn it down, as what is the point? It is horrible sex, and would just empower her at my expense.

What hurts me is the deep knowledge that I just am not able to truly "ring her bell". It sounds peurile, and juvenile, and stupid, but she really does seem to have the hots only for tattoed fcukheads with hyper-masculine features who are very tall (6'3 or more).

So I don't give a fcuk about the retarded creature. I go to work, refuse to eat the dinner she cooks as it is all a game to gain power over me, refuse the horrible sex she offers me, and focus on myself, on withdrawing myself, to SAVE myself from this peurile hormone beast that I am married to.

Quick anecdote: Today, whilst we were at a kid's carnival, I was lucky enough to find $50 on the ground. Like the sad betamale provider I am, I reflexively gave it to her. It meant NOTHING to her, subconsciously (even the fact I gave it to her at all disgusted her inner-woman, I can see) and she still spent the afternoon with an expression on her face like she had been sucking on a lemon.

Just going to continue to focus on myself. You know things are bad when you couldn't even care whether your wife was secretly porking other men. In fact I find myself wishing she was. At least that would give me an excuse to kill some OM and vent this bloodlust.

FML.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

So she is making more of an effort. Well then she deserves some credit. I don't believe that your wife is a monster. We are all f%$$d up in some way or other. She cooks, she tries to be affectionate.....well she is trying. Yes she is guilty of some juvenile staring at other men, that was dumb of her. 

I doubt that any man could ring her bell in the long run, eventually all that would have gone cold anyway. 

Hating her won't help YOU. This kind of life can't go on, do you have a plan? Is there MC planned or a separation?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

indiecat said:


> So she is making more of an effort. Well then she deserves some credit. I don't believe that your wife is a monster. We are all f%$$d up in some way or other. She cooks, she tries to be affectionate.....well she is trying. Yes she is guilty of some juvenile staring at other men, that was dumb of her.
> 
> I doubt that any man could ring her bell in the long run, eventually all that would have gone cold anyway.
> 
> Hating her won't help YOU. This kind of life can't go on, do you have a plan? Is there MC planned or a separation?


More focused on trying become completely "whole" myself at the moment. One of the posters in this thread gave me a lightbulb moment when they asked why I based so much of my self-esteem on my wife and her approval/love/attraction of me.

And they were right. I should never have put myself in this situation..

That's changing fast however.

She will want me when I do not want or need her whatsoever.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The 180 isn't about fighting. A person who cares about SOMETHING shouts.

There is nothing worth fighting with your wife about. All her actions should do is let you analyze how you respond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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