# Are we all WAYWARDS???! Video



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyVPyKrx0Xo


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Dude,

I know it is somewhat of a trendy idea in recent times that 'anybody' can be a cheater.....but I don't think that.

There are some of us who would never go 'there' out of pride, honor, and self-respect.

I have never cheated because there is no other person, no matter how beautiful or enticing she might be, that is worth my dignity and self-worth.

Not only that, I have a strong sense of honor.....and the idea of screwing over another man (if the woman had a partner) who has never done a wrong to me is entirely revolting.

Similar reason to why I will never keep or forgive a traitor either.....kicked my LTgf to the curb instantly after confronting her and never looked back, even after she begged for another chance 8 months later.

I could never respect myself again if I tolerated that type of behavior from someone who was supposed to love me.

NO ONE is worth the price of me having to look in the mirror and feel disgust for the rest of my days.


----------



## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

While I believe there are many people who, as Dyokemm mentioned, would not carry out the act because of honor and self-respect I do believe the culture of 'gimme mine now' and 'I get bored easily' has made the wandering eye more apt to be followed up on.....a general lack of appreciation for what people have adds to it. Finally I too would not cheat because after seeing what it does to someone I decided I would finish out this life as never having been one as part of my bucket list.....

Ironically it is hard for me to argue certain points in the video because I have more twice been the 'other man' unknowingly because the girls never told me they had BFs which I found out later......


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*My holy marital vows that were heartfully professed to my spouse, and said in the presence of God, the ministers, our families, our friends, and the community in general, speak volumes to the obligatory promises that were solemnly made on both of our parts on that day!

Is that, in and of itself, not deemed to be binding enough? For me, it was, and has always been! 

Unfortunately, neither of my W's quite felt the same way! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## depressedandexhausted (Aug 24, 2015)

I think it has a lot to do with how we are raised. My parents have been married for over 17 years. Both have divorce in their past. However, they raised me to be moral and respectful. I also have to older sisters. Out of respect, love, integrity and basic sense of right and wrong I would never cheat. I also fear my sisters wrath. However I have been married twice. Both wives have decided to sway. First was physical second was emotional, with intentions of being physical (i just caught it soon enough). I don't think everybody is this way, I just think we all search for the same type of woman/man that just wears a different type of clothes, or has a different personality with the same flaws, do it appears as though everyone is like this. I simply dont understand why.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

depressedandexhausted said:


> I think it has a lot to do with how we are raised. My parents have been married for over 17 years. Both have divorce in their past. However, they raised me to be moral and respectful. I also have to older sisters. Out of respect, love, integrity and basic sense of right and wrong I would never cheat. I also fear my sisters wrath. However I have been married twice. Both wives have decided to sway. First was physical second was emotional, with intentions of being physical (i just caught it soon enough). I don't think everybody is this way, I just think we all search for the same type of woman/man that just wears a different type of clothes, or has a different personality with the same flaws, do it appears as though everyone is like this. I simply dont understand why.


The video tries to answer this for you. Everyone is looking around at someone else and being with the same person for 50 years when its not totally out of necessity is really tough. Especially when both people can change a LOT over the years not to mention all the stressors we have in today's societies. These are not excuses but more reasons. DUDE


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> The video tries to answer this for you. Everyone is looking around at someone else and being with the same person for 50 years when its not totally out of necessity is really tough. Especially when both people can change a LOT over the years not to mention all the stressors we have in today's societies. These are not excuses but more reasons. DUDE


This ^ is one of the realities of life in the modern world. Not to long ago the safety of monogamy was a neccessary part of day to day living.
Sex (which after all is the typically the driving idea of a relationship) outside of marriage could result in an unwanted pregnancy. The pill and modern contraceptives destroyed that aspect of life.
The extended life expectancy brought about by modern health and medical practices also plays a role. Not to long ago few marriages lasted more than 20 year. Typically one or both partners had died well before this milestone could be achieved.
In the back ground, the speed of exponential technological advancement has increased dramatically in our life times. It is ludicrous to believe that someone raised at a time when few phones were available is not somehow changed by living in a world where phones and communication in general is ubiquitous. Where once our world was limited to the relatively few people we had personal contact with, it is now virtually limited only to the extent of access to the internet.
I am not just talking about phones and the internet. The fact is that technology has made the world much smaller than it ever was in the past. Allowing for the nearly instant exchange of information and ideas, all of which influence each of us on a personal level.
The actual amount of time and effort needed to merely survive is at an all time low. We have more time to explore our wants, needs and desires. generally the abundance of the modern world affords us the resources to do so.
While religious beliefs, moral attitudes and personal ethics may set limits on our individual acceptance or ability to embrace these changes, the same may not hold true for our partners or spouses. In fact this reticence on one side or the other may actually hasten changes in ourselves or other.
To conclude, I feel it is silly to reject the idea that people change, including ourselves, especially given the back drop of a rapidly changing world around us.


----------



## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

I imagine the intent of the video (I haven't watched it) is to demonstrate that nobody is infallible. But there are better ways to illustrate that than to say that "everyone is a potential cheater." 

It's simply not true. There are some people who would never cheat, ever. Maybe it's because of love- real love. Maybe it's because of pride: some people are so obsessed with not succumbing to one thing that they actually fall victim to something different and perhaps worse. 

If I were a betting man I'd wager this is just more post-modernism sentiment, a way of leveling the social playing field. It's annoying. Although I will say there is something to be said about the fact that we are all human, and we all fail each other. 

But some do this much more often and to a much greater degree than others. That's my beef with post-modernism.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dycedarg said:


> I imagine the intent of the video (I haven't watched it) is to demonstrate that nobody is infallible. But there are better ways to illustrate that than to say that "everyone is a potential cheater."
> 
> It's simply not true. There are some people who would never cheat, ever. Maybe it's because of love- real love. Maybe it's because of pride: some people are so obsessed with not succumbing to one thing that they actually fall victim to something different and perhaps worse.
> 
> ...


I didn't watch the video either. But I would also say that what most people consider the definition of "love" is a more modern concept as well. The idea of a "soul mate", "life partner" or someone "who completes me" are more recent ideas than most of us are willing to accept.The ideas expressed in the video may very well be post-modern sentiments, but they are none the less valid. 
But yet anytime you use superlatives such as every, all, none of never you can and will be proven wrong. But this truism does not negate the reality of the world we live in.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Wait, we're making excuses for cheaters now?!? "Might as well, everyone is doing it" F all that.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Wait, we're making excuses for cheaters now?!? "Might as well, everyone is doing it" F all that.


Not at all. The key is the word "potential". Not making excuses for anything or anybody. Most people pursue happiness. The definition of happiness can and usually does change over time and may or may not line up with yours at any given point in life. It is simply a recognition of reality.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Denying reality is part of the stratagem of holding on to some idea we have. An effort to validate something we are feeling. "My ex left me because he/she is a bad person" entails not dealing with the reality the regardless of what happened you played a role in it. The denial of reality is the denial of responsibility.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Not at all. The key is the word "potential". Not making excuses for anything or anybody. Most people pursue happiness. The definition of happiness can and usually does change over time and may or may not line up with yours at any given point in life. It is simply a recognition of reality.


Sure, there are temptations all around, day in day out. Our choices to pursue or not say a lot about our character though.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

I just don't like the way our society views fidelity (or lack thereof). "When in Rome...." or "everyone's doing it" pisses me the **** off.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Sorry.. I must be triggering or something today! I'm in a mood! LOL


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Sorry.. I must be triggering or something today! I'm in a mood! LOL


No Prob Guy, 

Sounds like you have some healing to do still so understandable. The point is the complexity of life now just adds to all the arrows firing at a marriage. Rather it be another person, Fantasy Football, Chat Rooms, Twitter, etc. Its all collectively hindering a great marriage. I think once you are cheated on that just stands out, but I think we can all agree there are far more distractions out there just as destructive.

DUDE


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Sure, there are temptations all around, day in day out. Our choices to pursue or not say a lot about our character though.


Without a doubt. Everything in life is about the choices we make. But the fact that we have those choices to make implies that the potential to choose otherwise is there. The choices we make say much about us as individuals. But in the end we are just making choices based on what we consider to be our best interests. 
I read so many of the posts on TADS section of TAM. It seems than most are of us are blaming our exes for either leaving us or cheating on us causing us to leave them. Either way our exes were always acting in what they perceived to be their own best interests. We didn't agree with them and were mostly hurt by their actions. They may not have made those choices earlier in their lives or in a different period in time for that matter. But they made them now. So our choices are either to accept them and move on or to hold on an remain bitter and angry. These choices also say a lot about who we are.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

You're right. I am still healing. Hopefully we all continue to try to better ourselves always. And I agree, there are many distractions to a marriage today. it will take both people in the relationship to stay focused on each other instead of chasing some new shiny thing.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

TheGoodGuy said:


> You're right. I am still healing. Hopefully we all continue to try to better ourselves always. And I agree, there are many distractions to a marriage today. it will take both people in the relationship to stay focused on each other instead of chasing some new shiny thing.


Bingo and once you understand we ALL HAVE DISTRACTIONS, while not the same as cheating, they are bad as well. Then you can forgive which is what lets you heal in a healthy manner and triggers become almost non existent. DUDE


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Denying reality is part of the stratagem of holding on to some idea we have. An effort to validate something we are feeling. "My ex left me because he/she is a bad person" entails not dealing with the reality the regardless of what happened you played a role in it. The denial of reality is the denial of responsibility.


Well, here's some more reality: infidelity is a choice.


If I were in a bad marriage, irrespective of what my husband did or didn't do, *I* could either _choose_ to act like a wh-re, or *I* can _choose _to tell my husband it's over, treat *myself* and him with respect and leave the marriage with *my* head held high.


IMO, the choice is all about character, or lack of it.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Luxey said:


> Well, here's some more reality: infidelity is a choice.
> 
> 
> If I were in a bad marriage, irrespective of what my husband did or didn't do, *I* could either _choose_ to act like a wh-re, or *I* can _choose _to tell my husband it's over, treat *myself* and him with respect and leave the marriage with *my* head held high.
> ...


Yep, I posted about how everything in life is a choice. But it still doesn't change the fact that we have choices, which is what the OP is about. Another choice is that your husband, regardless of your actions could still choose to consider you a ***** for leaving in the first place. The topic of the OP is simply about the fact that each of us has choices and within that spectrum of choices lies the possibility that each of use could be wayward. In fact one the choices you mentioned (to leave with head held high) would be considered a "wayward" choice by most. It isn't always about cheating. Any choice you make that moves you away from a relationship is a wayward choice.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Bingo and once you understand we ALL HAVE DISTRACTIONS, while not the same as cheating, they are bad as well. Then you can forgive which is what lets you heal in a healthy manner and triggers become almost non existent. DUDE


I am healing as well. But knowing and understanding the reality that we are all changing helps me to heal faster.


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Yep, I posted about how everything in life is a choice. But it still doesn't change the fact that we have choices, which is what the OP is about. Another choice is that your husband, regardless of your actions could still choose to consider you a ***** for leaving in the first place. The topic of the OP is simply about the fact that each of us has choices and within that spectrum of choices lies the possibility that each of use could be wayward. In fact one the choices you mentioned (to leave with head held high) would be considered a "wayward" choice by most. It isn't always about cheating. Any choice you make that moves you away from a relationship is a wayward choice.


I don't care with the OP was talking about. I responded to _your post _that seemed to suggest the spouse who was cheated on bears culpability for their spouses choice to cheat. They don't.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Without a doubt. Everything in life is about the choices we make. But the fact that we have those choices to make implies that the potential to choose otherwise is there. The choices we make say much about us as individuals. But in the end we are just making choices based on what we consider to be our best interests.
> I read so many of the posts on TADS section of TAM. It seems than most are of us are blaming our exes for either leaving us or cheating on us causing us to leave them. Either way our exes were always acting in what they perceived to be their own best interests. We didn't agree with them and were mostly hurt by their actions. They may not have made those choices earlier in their lives or in a different period in time for that matter. But they made them now. So our choices are either to accept them and move on or to hold on an remain bitter and angry. These choices also say a lot about who we are.


Yes, and if you really allow yourself to grieve, the depression/despair is when you no longer look at your ex(spouse), but turn inward at oneself. THAT IS WHEN YOU CAN DO THE MOST GROWING. Thats why the meds are NO GOOD IMHO. They block this process of fully looking introspectively which is how you heal and learn naturally. Once you go through this grief work 6 - 12 months you will be whole again. Actually better than when you started.(Growth) DUDE


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Luxey said:


> I don't care with the OP was talking about. I responded to _your post _that seemed to suggest the spouse who was cheated on bears culpability for their spouses choice to cheat. They don't.


They do indirectly in that they participated in the marriage that led to the cheating. Is it their(betrayed) fault, NO. The point is once you look beyond the cheating to the part you played in the demise of the marriage, the cheating bothers you not. Otherwise, you are subject to a lifetime of bitterness/unforgiveness which is NOT HEALTHY nor reality. Hope this makes sense...DUDE


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Luxey said:


> I don't care with the OP was talking about. I responded to _your post _that seemed to suggest the spouse who was cheated on bears culpability for their spouses choice to cheat. They don't.


I wasn't talking about culpability for anyone else's choices, but the responsibility you have towards yourself. If your spouse cheated on you, you were responsible for allowing them into your life to begin with. You can only responsible for the choices you make.


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

Ynot said:


> I wasn't talking about culpability for anyone else's choices, but the responsibility you have towards yourself. If your spouse cheated on you, you were responsible for allowing them into your life to begin with. You can only responsible for the choices you make.


What?

Seems a bit of a non-sequitur.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Yes, and if you really allow yourself to grieve, the depression/despair is when you no longer look at your ex(spouse), but turn inward at oneself. THAT IS WHEN YOU CAN DO THE MOST GROWING. Thats why the meds are NO GOOD IMHO. They block this process of fully looking introspectively which is how you heal and learn naturally. Once you go through this grief work 6 - 12 months you will be whole again. Actually better than when you started.(Growth) DUDE


Good point! I feel that the denial of reality or more precisely the desire to deny reality is one of the leading causes of depression and its attendant treatment via drugs (both prescription and illegal). Should these be removed as a crutch, perhaps more people would take action to make the modern world a more enjoyable place to abide in and make the need for escape even less desirable.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Yep, I posted about how everything in life is a choice. But it still doesn't change the fact that we have choices, which is what the OP is about. Another choice is that your husband, regardless of your actions could still choose to consider you a ***** for leaving in the first place. The topic of the OP is simply about the fact that each of us has choices and within that spectrum of choices lies the possibility that each of use could be wayward.* In fact one the choices you mentioned (to leave with head held high) would be considered a "wayward" choice by most. It isn't always about cheating. Any choice you make that moves you away from a relationship is a wayward choice.*


I disagree. But maybe it's just a semantics thing then. I always equate "wayward" with cheating, not with leaving a crappy situation. There's also the acronym WAS - Walk Away Spouse, which might be a more apt name for leaving with your head held high (though the person being left will generally think poorly of it).


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Luxey said:


> What?
> 
> Seems a bit of a non-sequitur.


How so? You are ultimately only responsible for your own actions. I never said you were responsible for anyone else's choices. How is that a non-sequitur?


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Good point! I feel that the denial of reality or more precisely the desire to deny reality is one of the leading causes of depression and its attendant treatment via drugs (both prescription and illegal). Should these be removed as a crutch, perhaps more people would take action to make the modern world a more enjoyable place to abide in and make the need for escape even less desirable.


You have a good point here, but I would also say that people who are clinically depressed create their own reality which warps their thinking. It's not on purpose; it's just part of the insidious nature of depression. It's like a cancer that isn't noticed until you're almost dead.

They can't just remove the drugs though and find joy. Depression is a snowball that keeps rolling and rolling. They aren't choosing to not find joy; it's not because of the drugs they can't find joy. It's because their reality is warped. Their views are shaped by the reality they created. It's a vicious loop that's damned hard to get out of and can't be broken by simply "finding joy".

It's really hard to explain if you've never dealt with clinical depression.


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

Ynot said:


> How so? You are ultimately only responsible for your own actions. I never said you were responsible for anyone else's choices. How is that a non-sequitur?


OK. If that was your intent, then I concede to misreading your post and apologise.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

TheGoodGuy said:


> I disagree. But maybe it's just a semantics thing then. I always equate "wayward" with cheating, not with leaving a crappy situation. There's also the acronym WAS - Walk Away Spouse, which might be a more apt name for leaving with your head held high (though the person being left will generally think poorly of it).


You are correct, it is a matter of semantics. look up the definition of "wayward" and you will see that to the one left behind, being left behind regardless of the means (cheating or leaving) is still a wayward act


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Luxey said:


> OK. If that was your intent, then I concede to misreading your post and apologise.


No problem.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Luxey said:


> You have a good point here, but I would also say that people who are clinically depressed create their own reality which warps their thinking. It's not on purpose; it's just part of the insidious nature of depression. It's like a cancer that isn't noticed until you're almost dead.
> 
> They can't just remove the drugs though and find joy. Depression is a snowball that keeps rolling and rolling. They aren't choosing to not find joy; it's not because of the drugs they can't find joy. It's because their reality is warped. Their views are shaped by the reality they created. It's a vicious loop that's damned hard to get out of and can't be broken by simply "finding joy".
> 
> It's really hard to explain if you've never dealt with clinical depression.


I've lived with it most of my life. Looking back over my own life I can see how much of my depression and the vortex of negativity that surrounds it was a result of my inability to accept reality and my choices in responding to it. When my ex left my doctor prescribed an anti depressant and an anti anxiety med. Later we tried a different anti-anxiety med. I tried different ones in the past. I never felt better. I simply felt indifferent. I realized they don't solve anything, they only mask the stimuli that caused the problem in the first place. I have had several life changing events over my life. I didn't always deal with them the best. My divorce has been the absolute worst. At times the pain was unbearable, but I am determined to work through the pain and finally learn the lessons in order to allow myself to heal and grow.


----------



## Luxey (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. I haven't, but someone I love dearly has, and it's heartbreaking to see. After seeing it up close, IMO it takes courage and strength to overcome it. Good on you for facing it head on!


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Ynot said:


> When my ex left my doctor prescribed an anti depressant and an anti anxiety med. Later we tried a different anti-anxiety med. I tried different ones in the past. I never felt better. I simply felt indifferent. I realized they don't solve anything, they only mask the stimuli that caused the problem in the first place.


You got it, anti depressants are not meant for Grief. Grief is FEELINGS, not an illness. A beer here and there is ok!!! ha! DUDE


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> You got it, anti depressants are not meant for Grief. Grief is FEELINGS, not an illness. A beer here and there is ok!!! ha! DUDE


Anti-depressants are symptomatic of our society in general. Few are truly willing to take on the hard tasks of overcoming the issues and becoming genuinely happy. You can run and try to hide, but eventually reality will catch up with you. Take the AD meds and in a couple of years, you will try another when you realize that nothing has really changed. The your doc will prescribe another drug that works to boost the first one. Some people use relationships instead of drugs or concentrate on work. I know I've tried them all. It wasn't until I faced the real soul crushing pain of divorce that I came to face my issues once and for all. I am determined to beat them and become happy and healthy for perhaps the first time in my life.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

I think you are almost there. really it's right around the corner. Dude


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> I think you are almost there. really it's right around the corner. Dude


I am really trying. Just thinking about how far I have come in the last few months makes me extremely hopeful. I know I still have a ways to go, but I am already ahead of where I was when my marriage crashed and burned. Thanks for encouragement


----------

