# 4 years later, I do it again



## Newgem

Long story short:

I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.

Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....

What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


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## Luckylucky

Only you know the answer to this. And why you keep doing it. I’m sorry for you husband, and you also sound like you don’t want to lose him? Do you love him as a person?


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## SRCSRC

You obviously need therapy with someone versed in infidelity. Another child is the last thing you need to bring into your dysfunctional marriage. I don't have any advice other than the obvious. Stop doing destructive acts that are likely to end your marriage. Your marriage may be gone at this point. I don't know the extent of your initial infidelities, but evidently, they involved sex with multiple men. I don't know how your husband can ever trust you. This is the third period in which you cheated. Most likely you would have met up with this recent group of men if your husband hadn't discovered what you were up to. 

You need intensive therapy with someone who is very good. Something is seriously broken. I really don't know how he can stay with you, but that is up to him. You need to fix yourself if that is possible so that you can be a safe partner with someone else if your husband doesn't want to reconcile.


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## Andy1001

You didn’t find yourself on a dating site magically, you signed up and actively sought men other than your husband to sext with and share what I can only assume are nude photos.
If you can’t even accept responsibility for your own behavior then you’re going to repeat these actions.


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## Luckylucky

How many kids do you have, and how are they doing?


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## manowar

Validation Queen. And because you can. It's easy. OLD favors women and these types of antics. Lots of messages make you feel good. It's all a fantasy. In real life, most women OLD wouldn't get nearly the attention they do online.

OLD has tons of these validation-seeking women. Men should avoid OLD as a huge trap and time waster because it caters to women who are in control of the game. Maybe you want a boyfriend. Your husband busting his azz at work isnt enough. You like having husband as a provider but a side lover who doesn't provide is pretty hot.


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## Personal

Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


There's nothing petty about it and it certainly isn't nonsense. Your husband is right not to trust you. Infidelity doesn't happen by accident, it is something you choose to do.


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## rugswept

You are not trusted since you are not trustworthy. He has no idea how far this most recent round went, how much or for how long. There's no way for him to really know since he has to rely on what you have to say. And then he has to catch you at this kind of thing. 

No more apps. No more social sites. These are apparently like a drug to you and you can't help it and totally lose control. 

You have to get to the bottom of why you seek this validation (cheap kibbles no doubt) from other men. It makes you feel wanted? It makes you feel attractive? How do you balance this kind of behavior when you know your M is on the line? 

Please don't find excuses for all this. If we're looking for an excuse we can always find one. 

You might make it. From what you posted he's "considering separation". So, it's not a done deal, just yet. He obviously is around because of the sweet child involved. 

Finally: don't tell him this was "petty nonsense". I can assure you, it's not to him.


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## Luckylucky

Were you the girl in high school that all the boys ignored? Serious question. And strict parents by any chance? Were you also the girl that tried to steal the attention of your friends’ boyfriends? Maybe, you also don’t have too many female friends…

I’m not asking to be nasty.

Your husband probably adored you, and you got married to escape, and he was really good to you and was nothing like your parents. He gave you lots of freedom, and you were the apple of his eye. You married to get away from mum and dad, so it didn’t really feel exciting that someone loved you and thought you were beautiful… Is this your story?


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## Talker67

there is a definite thrill one gets from doing taboo sex acts. and flirting with men online when you are married qualifies as a taboo sex act. forbidden fruit.

Sounds like you are another horny wife who likes the excitement, and has chosen poor ways to arouse yourself. We all get horny, but most of us choose ways to relieve those needs without potentially damaging the marriage.

Have you really investigated sexual ways to turn yourself on with only your husband present? bondage? Spanking? role play (there are hundreds of kinky scenarios to play out)? Sex in odd places with the thrill of possibly getting caught? Sex while driving your car with hubby as the passenger? Sex board games? Sex while watching porn? Pose for your hubby for sexual pictures and videos? and on and on.

Maybe join a sex based web site where you can post pictures and videos of you doing sex acts, but men can only respond thru DMs on that site. and your hubby has the password to the site so he can see all that is going on...ie explore your exhibitionist inner self?

there are probably ways to achieve the same, or even more intense, sexual high WITHOUT needing to flirt with men online!

it sounds like you tried to stay away, and went a full four years before doing it again. that shows pretty good self control. but why roll those dice if you do not have to? Find a (safe for your marriage) way to get similarly turned on.


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## Talker67

BTW, your husband probably does not fully believe that you are on dating sites but have "only talked to those men". the entire reason for a dating site is to hook up. I do believe you, but you have to realize you are putting your husband in a very difficult position asking HIM to believe you that you are only doing it for online titillation.


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## Mr.Married

You have nothing to worry about it’s just separating and divorce..... just petty nonsense


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## Rus47

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


Thankfully your attempts to become pregnant failed. Would imagine your husband is taking all precautions.

It sounds like whenever you are stressed, you turn to other men. You said you met with others 4 years ago, did you have sex with them too? Imagine even if not your husband imagined you did. These recent incidents follow the same pattern, and had you not been caught would you have met some of the men again? 

You need some counseling/behavior modification to avoid being promiscuous whenever you are in crisis. For your own sanity and well being. Would be very surprised if your husband stays with you.


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## Mr.Married

Even if he does stay with you it isn’t like you could gather up a shred of respect for him. It’s hard to respect a guy that accepts his wife has been slutting herself out and still stays with her. It’s just becomes another enabler for your behavior.


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## SunCMars

Loneliness and obsession are powerful drivers.

Now that you have cracked open the lid to your mind and motives, you are obliged to reveal what lies within.

Exposure, while painful, can release both the heat and the mental tension that plagues you.

You may have an alter-ego, another mind that cannot be ignored.
I think you do.



I live with many such minds....umm.
I do, we do.



Lilith-


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## maquiscat

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


The key would have been to have been up front about it with him as soon as you realized that you were seeking this attention again. "Hon, I'm feeling inadequate with all this infertility stuff. I found myself starting on the dating sites again for the ego boost. I want to continue this as an ego boost, but I am not looking to actually meet them." And you go from there. The question is, why are you doing this. Is your husband not paying enough attention to you? Is his stress at not conceiving causing him to neglect you, or at the least reduce his care and attention to you? You will probably need counselling to deal with this. However, given that this is the second time, and you were doing these things behind his back, it might be too late. If such is the case stand by to separate.


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## Diana7

manowar said:


> Validation Queen. And because you can. It's easy. OLD favors women and these types of antics. Lots of messages make you feel good. It's all a fantasy. In real life, most women OLD wouldn't get nearly the attention they do online.
> 
> OLD has tons of these validation-seeking women. Men should avoid OLD as a huge trap and time waster because it caters to women who are in control of the game. Maybe you want a boyfriend. Your husband busting his azz at work isnt enough. You like having husband as a provider but a side lover who doesn't provide is pretty hot.


Irl many men wouldn't get the attention they get on OLD either. It goes both ways. I think my husband is
pleased he didn't avoid OLD. 
Anyway back to the subject.


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## sideways

There's obviously something broken inside of you and your husband has every reason not to trust you.

You obviously don't know who you are and you have serious self-esteem issues. So much so that when you don't know who you are (and more importantly like who you are) that's when you go seeking validation from others.

The problem with doing this is it's your life and you're handing over the control to someone else. Just as fast as they give it they can take it away.

Also, stop with the excuses as to why you're doing this. By doing so you're not taking ownership of what you did or are doing.

Your husband has to be thinking There's a track record of you doing this. What else is she going to go through or experience that is going to make her resort back to this nonsense?

He's thinking the two of you have a child now and you are NOT a safe partner and this is NO way to go through life. At what point are you going to BLOW up his world and your child's world? And why? Because you're a loose Canon who's clueless as to who she is.

I can only speak as to what I would do. I would not want to live like this and I certainly wouldn't want my child in this mess. I would divorce you and let you go play your child games seeking validation from strangers but not as my wife.

Also, this is NOT "petty non-sense". This is serious $h!T....so much so that I would say to you "enough" and file.

Stop lying to yourself and have the courage to face your demons. You can NOT change what you won't confront.


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## Openminded

You apparently are bored with the ordinariness of every-day life and need the excitement, and danger, of doing things you know you shouldn’t. Don’t bring another child into the dysfunction you’ve created.


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## Benbutton

Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


1. For starters, the fact that you dismiss your behavior as petty nonsense is a huge problem. 
2. On top of that you treat this as some sort of condition that can't be helped. 
3. #2 is complete nonsense.


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## manfromlamancha

Would you mind sharing what your and your husband's culture is? It could have a lot to do with this too.


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## 351235

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


From experience I will tell you: This is your gut telling you to leave. People who are happy, satisfied or content don't do this. You give it your best shot, you go "all in" but eventually those thoughts come back. I'm sure you love him as a person, but you obviously want something else.


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## ccpowerslave

OP you remind me of the character in the great classic by Britney Spears (free Britney BTW):

_Oops, I did it again
I played with your heart, got lost in the game
Oh baby, baby
Oops, you think I'm in love
That I'm sent from above
I'm not that innocent_

Seeking out men on dating apps while you’re married seems like you’re looking for male attention. Your husband should be providing this.


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## EdDean

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.





Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


I guess the first question that came to my mind is do you really want to be in a marriage relationship? I know you care for your husband and your family and your life but do you really want to be married?

I’ve known people who have recovered from infidelity but they were usually very brief affairs that were openly confessed to and not just discovered. The unfaithful spouse admitted what they did with tremendous remorse and still had to work for years to prove they were safe partners to their betrayed spouse.

Marriage is a very difficult and specific type of relationship. So I would start by asking yourself if it is even something that you want or is the serial cheating a sign otherwise.

I also agree with one of the other posters who suggested individual counseling with someone who is experienced with infidelity or betrayal trauma. Don’t suggest marriage counseling to your husband. This is not the right time for that. The IC can help you figure out what you want and maybe coach you on the kind of empathy and remorse you’re going to have to show your husband if you want to move forward with him.


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## Newgem

manowar said:


> Validation Queen. And because you can. It's easy. OLD favors women and these types of antics. Lots of messages make you feel good. It's all a fantasy. In real life, most women OLD wouldn't get nearly the attention they do online.
> 
> OLD has tons of these validation-seeking women. Men should avoid OLD as a huge trap and time waster because it caters to women who are in control of the game. Maybe you want a boyfriend. Your husband busting his azz at work isnt enough. You like having husband as a provider but a side lover who doesn't provide is pretty hot.


Is OLD , online dating? And actually the attention is same in real life - it’s just easily accessible and more variety online. I suppose that’s why I go on there?

I am realizing I am very spoiled in many aspects. My husband does work very hard. The thing is it’s not just one side lover. I talk to multiple different men, and if I lose interest I cut them off quick and don’t care. I was the same way in person with men when I lived out of state and went out with friends. Very cold attitude.
I think my head has blown up very big over the years.

Friends/ppl have asked me how my husband deals with all the attention I get when I’m out and I never realized that til I moved away alone on my own. I’m honestly not trying to sound cocky - I’m just saying it like it is- I think this is why I have this “it was just pettty nonsense” attitude.

I know there are other scenarios that are non-destructive that can be ‘hot’. I need to seek them. I need help lol I just can’t lose 16 years, but maybe that’s the only way I’ll learn.


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## Mr.Married

Talk about a complete snot ..... Jesus!!!!


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## Newgem

Luckylucky said:


> Only you know the answer to this. And why you keep doing it. I’m sorry for you husband, and you also sound like you don’t want to lose him? Do you love him as a person?


I do love him as a person. I don’t want to lose my marriage. I think since it’s been 16 years things change, get dry, but I honestly love him a lot.


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## Mr.Married

Newgem said:


> I do love him as a person. I don’t want to lose my marriage. I think since it’s been 16 years things change, get dry, but I honestly love him a lot.


Are you an engineer?


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## Evinrude58

My ex was an attention ***** just like you and I divorced her over it. You’re heading for the same. Good luck.


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## Newgem

SRCSRC said:


> You obviously need therapy with someone versed in infidelity. Another child is the last thing you need to bring into your dysfunctional marriage. I don't have any advice other than the obvious. Stop doing destructive acts that are likely to end your marriage. Your marriage may be gone at this point. I don't know the extent of your initial infidelities, but evidently, they involved sex with multiple men. I don't know how your husband can ever trust you. This is the third period in which you cheated. Most likely you would have met up with this recent group of men if your husband hadn't discovered what you were up to.
> 
> You need intensive therapy with someone who is very good. Something is seriously broken. I really don't know how he can stay with you, but that is up to him. You need to fix yourself if that is possible so that you can be a safe partner with someone else if your husband doesn't want to reconcile.


No I didn’t have sex with multiple men. Made out and spoke to - yes, but no sex. I do want to fix myself and will search for a therapist. I need help


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## Newgem

Luckylucky said:


> How many kids do you have, and how are they doing?


I have one and she’s fine


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## Newgem

rugswept said:


> You are not trusted since you are not trustworthy. He has no idea how far this most recent round went, how much or for how long. There's no way for him to really know since he has to rely on what you have to say. And then he has to catch you at this kind of thing.
> 
> No more apps. No more social sites. These are apparently like a drug to you and you can't help it and totally lose control.
> 
> You have to get to the bottom of why you seek this validation (cheap kibbles no doubt) from other men. It makes you feel wanted? It makes you feel attractive? How do you balance this kind of behavior when you know your M is on the line?
> 
> Please don't find excuses for all this. If we're looking for an excuse we can always find one.
> 
> You might make it. From what you posted he's "considering separation". So, it's not a done deal, just yet. He obviously is around because of the sweet child involved.
> 
> Finally: don't tell him this was "petty nonsense". I can assure you, it's not to him.


I understand I’m the problem, that’s why I’m on here trying to figure it out. I know I need help.


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## ononvandersexx

Looking at your post four years ago, you took offence to the suggestion that you were a serial cheater, saying "I'm not likely going to change? I'm a serial cheater? Thanks for that lol. A lot of people have been saying this and I'm looking to explore this concept. I think anyone can change if they dedicate themselves and have support " (How could I?).

My question is, have you actually _done_ anything to dedicate yourself to change, or seek out support? Do you even truly want to?


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## Newgem

Luckylucky said:


> Were you the girl in high school that all the boys ignored? Serious question. And strict parents by any chance? Were you also the girl that tried to steal the attention of your friends’ boyfriends? Maybe, you also don’t have too many female friends…
> 
> I’m not asking to be nasty.
> 
> Your husband probably adored you, and you got married to escape, and he was really good to you and was nothing like your parents. He gave you lots of freedom, and you were the apple of his eye. You married to get away from mum and dad, so it didn’t really feel exciting that someone loved you and thought you were beautiful… Is this your story?


No I wasn’t ignored nor steal others boyfriends. I did have strict parent though. My husband did give me lots of freedom as I lived away for 4 years when we were engaged. I think I have a big ego and need to humble myself and need help.


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## GoldenR

You don't need help. 

You need to be single. Monogamy isn't for you.


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## Newgem

Mr.Married said:


> You have nothing to worry about it’s just separating and divorce..... just petty nonsense


I know I have a bad attitude. I’m here to get help and suggestions


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## Newgem

sideways said:


> There's obviously something broken inside of you and your husband has every reason not to trust you.
> 
> You obviously don't know who you are and you have serious self-esteem issues. So much so that when you don't know who you are (and more importantly like who you are) that's when you go seeking validation from others.
> 
> The problem with doing this is it's your life and you're handing over the control to someone else. Just as fast as they give it they can take it away.
> 
> Also, stop with the excuses as to why you're doing this. By doing so you're not taking ownership of what you did or are doing.
> 
> Your husband has to be thinking There's a track record of you doing this. What else is she going to go through or experience that is going to make her resort back to this nonsense?
> 
> He's thinking the two of you have a child now and you are NOT a safe partner and this is NO way to go through life. At what point are you going to BLOW up his world and your child's world? And why? Because you're a loose Canon who's clueless as to who she is.
> 
> I can only speak as to what I would do. I would not want to live like this and I certainly wouldn't want my child in this mess. I would divorce you and let you go play your child games seeking validation from strangers but not as my wife.
> 
> Also, this is NOT "petty non-sense". This is serious $h!T....so much so that I would say to you "enough" and file.
> 
> Stop lying to yourself and have the courage to face your demons. You can NOT change what you won't confront.


How do I face my demons? Counseling? I want help


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## Newgem

GoldenR said:


> You don't need help.
> 
> You need to be single. Monogamy isn't for you.


I disagree. If someone realizes they have a problem and want help you don’t tell them getting help is not for you. People can change


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## Newgem

Mr.Married said:


> Talk about a complete snot ..... Jesus!!!!


I’m here to get suggestions on how to get help.


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## Newgem

Mr.Married said:


> Are you an engineer?


No medical professional


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## Mr.Married

Newgem said:


> I’m here to get suggestions on how to get help.


Yeah but it’s no fun if I don’t beat you up a little over it 🥊


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## Newgem

ononvandersexx said:


> Looking at your post four years ago, you took offence to the suggestion that you were a serial cheater, saying "I'm not likely going to change? I'm a serial cheater? Thanks for that lol. A lot of people have been saying this and I'm looking to explore this concept. I think anyone can change if they dedicate themselves and have support " (How could I?).
> 
> My question is, have you actually _done_ anything to dedicate yourself to change, or seek out support? Do you even truly want to?


The thing is at the time this happened I was very diligent and did what I can to be a better person. Then as time went on I forgot about it and got comfortable again. I seriously feel like crap for treating him this way. I want help and want something that will last.


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## GoldenR

You are a repeat offender, several times over...

Nothing will fix you.


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## Mr.Married

GoldenR said:


> You are a repeat offender, several times over...
> 
> Nothing will fix you.


A divorce perhaps will.


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## Newgem

Evinrude58 said:


> My ex was an attention *** just like you and I divorced her over it. You’re heading for the same. Good luck.


I realize I have a problem, no need to bash me.


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## Newgem

GoldenR said:


> You are a repeat offender, several times over...
> 
> Nothing will fix you.


Listen,
I don’t care what you say. People CAN and do change.


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## Rus47

Newgem said:


> The thing is at the time this happened I was very diligent and did what I can to be a better person. Then as time went on I forgot about it and got comfortable again. I seriously feel like crap for treating him this way. I want help and want something that will last.


You must reallize that for an adult to change their habits and nature is extraordinarily difficult. Most fall off of the wagon and recover multiple times during their lives. Think alcoholic, drug abuser, serial cheater. Wanting to change is necessary but not sufficient. You will be fighting this demon for the rest of your days without a heart change. Find a counselor acquainted with addictive behavior and be prepared to work the problem for years.

Focus on fixing yourself, not your marriage. At this point it IMO beyond repair. But for sure you must fix yourself first anyway.

Good luck


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## EdDean

Newgem said:


> No I didn’t have sex with multiple men. Made out and spoke to - yes, but no sex. I do want to fix myself and will search for a therapist. I need help


Most people consider kissing a form of sex. I’d bet your husband does too. Plus unless both of his hands were tied behind his back then I’m sure there was more to it than that.

If you want to make a proper confession to your husband then make a complete timeline of everything that was done. When, where, how and what you were thinking at the time. Get it all out there. Every new truth that trickles out is like fresh knife in his heart.

Someone else asked what have you actually done to try and help your husband recover? It’s a good question. Besides forums like this what actions have you taken?


----------



## chazmataz33

Sounds like an addiction. The problem is not stopping its staying stopped.that's why alcoholics continue to go to meetings so the don't FORGET! How serious are you and WHAT are you willing to do?


----------



## Jamieboy

You deal with pain in an unhealthy way, probably linked to your formative years, your validation comes from the external rather than internal. You need professional help. You can change, and you should, for yourself and not your husband. Healing yourself will benefit him if he he chooses to stick around. However, if he has a healthy level of self worth he won’t.
My hunch is he doesn’t though, and this will continue


----------



## Galabar01

What is currently going on with your husband? Has he asked for divorce/separation? Are you still living together?


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## TXTrini

OP,
I read your thread and I have to ask, what is your purpose here?

You're a medical professional, are here after 4 yrs of repeat behavior, are indignant to posters who say you can't change.

What is arguing with strangers on the internet going to do at this point? You have **** all over your husband and shown him you can't be trusted. If you're serious about changing, DO something. Go to therapy, surely as a medical professional, the idea of getting treatment comes naturally for you.

I hope you can change, but with the entitled, defensive attitude you've displayed, you've got a steep hill to climb. Good luck.


----------



## NorthernGuard

Newgem said:


> No I didn’t have sex with multiple men. Made out and spoke to - yes, but no sex. I do want to fix myself and will search for a therapist. I need help


Didn't you want to fix yourself after stomping all over your husband's heart the first time and having been given the incredible gift of a second chance from him? If so, why didn't you get yourself straight into therapy and stick with it to figure out why you did it and do the work needed to prevent yourself from doing it again? Actions speak louder than words ever can. Your words don't mean squat but your actions sure speak volumes.


----------



## NorthernGuard

Newgem said:


> I disagree. If someone realizes they have a problem and want help you don’t tell them getting help is not for you. People can change


Just curious if you also said this the last time you cheated? We all know how that worked out...


----------



## NorthernGuard

Newgem said:


> The thing is at the time this happened I was very diligent and did what I can to be a better person. Then as time went on I forgot about it and got comfortable again. I seriously feel like crap for treating him this way. I want help and want something that will last.


Can you tell us how diligent you were and exactly what you did last time to be a better person? Whatever it was it must have been half measures because it clearly didn't work.


----------



## QuietRiot

Newgem said:


> The thing is at the time this happened I was very diligent and did what I can to be a better person. Then as time went on I forgot about it and got comfortable again. I seriously feel like crap for treating him this way. I want help and want something that will last.


You need a very good psychologist, and you will have to go for life if you want to be married to a man who values loyalty. You fell off the wagon and now you’re about to blow your life up again.

You will never be a loyal person. But if you get deep therapy and never stop again, perhaps you could at least act like one, against your nature might I add. I think your H deserves to know this for himself and decide if he wants to essentially stay with the equivalent of a “dry drunk” when you’re behaving.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


Being a cheater is not petty. Its very serious. Honestly, you need to lose your marriage. He caught you once already, forgave you, and now you are doing it again. 

No matter what happens, STOP trying to have another kid. Because that will just throw another innocent into this crap and will end up being another kid he'll likely have to pay more child support for.

I hate to sound harsh, but IMO, you will never change. It think its time to think about setting him free if that is what he desires and do right by him in the divorce and custody.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> Listen,
> I don’t care what you say. People CAN and do change.


Yes, but I believe you will not. You already got caught, were forgiven, and yet that wasn't enough to make you change.

You are a cheater because you like it. You can vow to never do it again, then you'll be getting that itch and curiosity of hooking up with different men.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> I realize I have a problem, no need to bash me.


Seriously, you are causing major harm and pain to your husband, and are in a sense bashing him by cheating on him. If you can't take the cold hard truth, then it means you have an even higher sense of entitlement. People here are clueing you into the kind of pain you are causing, and you want to complain about being bashed?


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> I’m here to get suggestions on how to get help.


Ok, you want help. Then here is what I suggest. If your husband wants a separation, then do it. Maybe wondering if during that separation he is starting to see the benefits of divorce just might kick your rear in gear. The anticipation of wondering if you are about to lose him may be just what you need. Because like you said, you were diligent, but then got comfortable again. Why? Because your husband forgave you just a little to easily last time.

So I suggest a separation.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> I disagree. If someone realizes they have a problem and want help you don’t tell them getting help is not for you. People can change


You realized you had a problem the first time. Obviously change wasn't in the cards after he forgave you too easily.


----------



## Newgem

ononvandersexx said:


> Looking at your post four years ago, you took offence to the suggestion that you were a serial cheater, saying "I'm not likely going to change? I'm a serial cheater? Thanks for that lol. A lot of people have been saying this and I'm looking to explore this concept. I think anyone can change if they dedicate themselves and have support " (How could I?).
> 
> My question is, have you actually _done_ anything to dedicate yourself to change, or seek out support? Do you even truly want to?




To be completely honest, no I havent done anything to dedicate myself to change/ seek support. I do want to. I need to change and from everything I've gathered I need to find an individual counselor that can help modifiy my behavior during crisis.


----------



## Newgem

chazmataz33 said:


> Sounds like an addiction. The problem is not stopping its staying stopped.that's why alcoholics continue to go to meetings so the don't FORGET! How serious are you and WHAT are you willing to do?


I'm very serious and willing to do whatever it takes. My first step would to seek a counselor on addictive behavior? And get off all apps/social media


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## Newgem

Jamieboy said:


> You deal with pain in an unhealthy way, probably linked to your formative years, your validation comes from the external rather than internal. You need professional help. You can change, and you should, for yourself and not your husband. Healing yourself will benefit him if he he chooses to stick around. However, if he has a healthy level of self worth he won’t.
> My hunch is he doesn’t though, and this will continue


Professional help like an addiction counselor?


----------



## Jamieboy

Newgem said:


> I'm very serious and willing to do whatever it takes. My first step would to seek a counselor on addictive behavior? And get off all apps/social media


Yes, this ^ but also prepare yourself for separation, if your hubby is prepared to over look this, you will do it again as his boundaries are non existent. That's not good for you


----------



## Newgem

Galabar01 said:


> What is currently going on with your husband? Has he asked for divorce/separation? Are you still living together?


Yes he's asked for a separation but we are still living together until we figure it out.


----------



## Newgem

TXTrini said:


> OP,
> I read your thread and I have to ask, what is your purpose here?
> 
> You're a medical professional, are here after 4 yrs of repeat behavior, are indignant to posters who say you can't change.
> 
> What is arguing with strangers on the internet going to do at this point? You have **** all over your husband and shown him you can't be trusted. If you're serious about changing, DO something. Go to therapy, surely as a medical professional, the idea of getting treatment comes naturally for you.
> 
> I hope you can change, but with the entitled, defensive attitude you've displayed, you've got a steep hill to climb. Good luck.


I'm here because I have no one else I can talk to about this. I understand I need to take action and I am. I just need to express my thoughts and situation because I have no one I could tell this to. Thanks for reading


----------



## Newgem

NorthernGirl said:


> Didn't you want to fix yourself after stomping all over your husband's heart the first time and having been given the incredible gift of a second chance from him? If so, why didn't you get yourself straight into therapy and stick with it to figure out why you did it and do the work needed to prevent yourself from doing it again? Actions speak louder than words ever can. Your words don't mean squat but your actions sure speak volumes.


I wasn't in therapy for long last time. Yes I said all the things I am saying now. I realize I ****ed up bad. I will take all the suggestions of immediate therapy/counseling. I'm just on here bc I have no one else I can talk to about this. Ppl I know will think I'm crazy.


----------



## Newgem

QuietRiot said:


> You need a very good psychologist, and you will have to go for life if you want to be married to a man who values loyalty. You fell off the wagon and now you’re about to blow your life up again.
> 
> You will never be a loyal person. But if you get deep therapy and never stop again, perhaps you could at least act like one, against your nature might I add. I think your H deserves to know this for himself and decide if he wants to essentially stay with the equivalent of a “dry drunk” when you’re behaving.


I will act loyal "against my nature". Ok. I'll let that sink in for a bit. I'll search for the therapy I need. Thanks for the response


----------



## Newgem

drencrom said:


> Ok, you want help. Then here is what I suggest. If your husband wants a separation, then do it. Maybe wondering if during that separation he is starting to see the benefits of divorce just might kick your rear in gear. The anticipation of wondering if you are about to lose him may be just what you need. Because like you said, you were diligent, but then got comfortable again. Why? Because your husband forgave you just a little to easily last time.
> 
> So I suggest a separation.


I've read all your response and thanks for the replies. I still think people can change, no matter how many times they've made that mistake. Clearly I need therapy and will seek it


----------



## Newgem

Jamieboy said:


> Yes, this ^ but also prepare yourself for separation, if your hubby is prepared to over look this, you will do it again as his boundaries are non existent. That's not good for you


Yeah he's saying the same thing. That if he forgives me, that wont be good for him or me. I'll be prepared for the worst I guess.


----------



## Newgem

Rus47 said:


> You must reallize that for an adult to change their habits and nature is extraordinarily difficult. Most fall off of the wagon and recover multiple times during their lives. Think alcoholic, drug abuser, serial cheater. Wanting to change is necessary but not sufficient. You will be fighting this demon for the rest of your days without a heart change. Find a counselor acquainted with addictive behavior and be prepared to work the problem for years.
> 
> Focus on fixing yourself, not your marriage. At this point it IMO beyond repair. But for sure you must fix yourself first anyway.
> 
> Good luck


I realize its hard to change habits as an adult. Thats why most adults are not physically fit and lose themselves. I'll search for the type of counselor youre recommending. Thanks for the response


----------



## Newgem

EdDean said:


> Most people consider kissing a form of sex. I’d bet your husband does too. Plus unless both of his hands were tied behind his back then I’m sure there was more to it than that.
> 
> If you want to make a proper confession to your husband then make a complete timeline of everything that was done. When, where, how and what you were thinking at the time. Get it all out there. Every new truth that trickles out is like fresh knife in his heart.
> 
> Someone else asked what have you actually done to try and help your husband recover? It’s a good question. Besides forums like this what actions have you taken?


I've written him a letter and apologized millions of times. Currently trying to be the best mother and wife I can be. What other steps would be best besides the therapy? Oh, and we've talked about what I've done and I've confessed to mostly everything. I deleted all the apps and contact with others couple weeks ago.


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## Newgem

manfromlamancha said:


> Would you mind sharing what your and your husband's culture is? It could have a lot to do with this too.


It's a christian culture, where its ideal to stick to your own race and morals/values are highly respected. I was raised by my parents who were an arranged marriage, old fashioned, etc... t


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## Cynthia

You are using male attention like a drug to make you feel better. Doing so hurts your husband and your family as a whole. It's easy to get male attention to soothe yourself when you are upset, but the after effects are destructive.

How do you stop? You have to recognize it for what it is and stop welcoming it generally. Don't make eye contact with men or to smile at them, if they are outside your family or trusted circle. Mind your own business. I know that for some women it can be especially difficult to ignore, but it can be done.

My daughter is stunningly gorgeous and she has some kind of energy that is like a man magnet. This is not her doing anything, trust me. She can be driving in her car, minding her own business, and men will try to engage with her, while driving! It's very weird. Anyway, she has never seen it as a way to make herself feel better. We talked about it when she was young and discussed the implications of giving it a place in her life. Today she is a married woman who has a husband that adores her and recognizes her beauty. She has never provoked male attention, but she has learned how to reject it and put a stop to it. It can be tiring, so she actually wears a shirt that says, "BACK OFF CREEP." She has had to explain to men, trying to engage her over her shirt, that, "Look Dude, you are the creep." She sees this kind of attention as a distraction and annoying, rather than being flattered or energized by it.

Seriously, you have to stop seeing it as flattering and see it as a distraction to your life and something that is not welcome. Just as if you were hooked on drugs. Sure they make you feel better for the moment, but the repercussions are not worth it. Furthermore, it doesn't bring you lasting joy like a healthy relationship should

It is all about your mindset, which is off track. Reset your focus and face your issues. You stated that your issues are feelings of inadequacy and disappointment over not conceiving. You are trying to soothe yourself to relieve your pain. A better way to do that is to get closer to your husband and focus on your family. Instead, you looked outside and brought danger into your home. You have torn your home down with your own hands. That is foolishness. How do you stop being foolish? Seek wisdom. Personally, I pray for wisdom daily. I suggest you do that same.


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## Newgem

Talker67 said:


> there is a definite thrill one gets from doing taboo sex acts. and flirting with men online when you are married qualifies as a taboo sex act. forbidden fruit.
> 
> Sounds like you are another horny wife who likes the excitement, and has chosen poor ways to arouse yourself. We all get horny, but most of us choose ways to relieve those needs without potentially damaging the marriage.
> 
> Have you really investigated sexual ways to turn yourself on with only your husband present? bondage? Spanking? role play (there are hundreds of kinky scenarios to play out)? Sex in odd places with the thrill of possibly getting caught? Sex while driving your car with hubby as the passenger? Sex board games? Sex while watching porn? Pose for your hubby for sexual pictures and videos? and on and on.
> 
> Maybe join a sex based web site where you can post pictures and videos of you doing sex acts, but men can only respond thru DMs on that site. and your hubby has the password to the site so he can see all that is going on...ie explore your exhibitionist inner self?
> 
> there are probably ways to achieve the same, or even more intense, sexual high WITHOUT needing to flirt with men online!
> 
> it sounds like you tried to stay away, and went a full four years before doing it again. that shows pretty good self control. but why roll those dice if you do not have to? Find a (safe for your marriage) way to get similarly turned on.


 Your suggestions are interesting. The sex based website thing definitely won't work. He's not the type to want to share etc. But the other stuff you mentioned might be fun. I am a very sexual person so I'm sure this plays a part in all of this.


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## Newgem

Openminded said:


> You apparently are bored with the ordinariness of every-day life and need the excitement, and danger, of doing things you know you shouldn’t. Don’t bring another child into the dysfunction you’ve created.


Great point. You're right - I am bored of the everyday life. I know I can seek excitement and danger a different way which is what I need to work on. thanks for reply


----------



## TXTrini

Newgem said:


> I'm here because I have no one else I can talk to about this. I understand I need to take action and I am. I just need to express my thoughts and situation because I have no one I could tell this to. Thanks for reading


I get that, but we can't shame you into making the right decisions for yourself and your husband. That needs to be something you _want_ to do, because you recognize you need to change.


Newgem said:


> I wasn't in therapy for long last time. Yes I said all the things I am saying now. I realize I ****ed up bad. I will take all the suggestions of immediate therapy/counseling. I'm just on here bc I have no one else I can talk to about this. Ppl I know will think I'm crazy.


Wonderful! Your therapist will be much more qualified to give you specific things to do to improve. 

I get the feeling it's easier to come here, have strangers tell you crap about yourself because it's easier to give a sanitized version of events without exposing your true self one on one. I hope therapy will help you to overcome your weakness, it certainly helped me.


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> I've written him a letter and apologized millions of times. Currently trying to be the best mother and wife I can be. What other steps would be best besides the therapy? Oh, and we've talked about what I've done and I've confessed to *mostly everything. *I deleted all the apps and contact with others couple weeks ago.


"Mostly" wont do. You have to confess EVERYTHING. But you surely know that already.


----------



## Affaircare

Hi @Newgem 

I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard. 

So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses. 

For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?

So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!

Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way. 

So #2 begin to accept that the fact that your actions caused the death of your relationship with your spouse. 

Now, getting through just those two things is often more than many people can bear. In real life, people very rarely do recover and TRULY reconcile after infidelity because it takes two miracles: 1) the unfaithful person has to be VERY humble and look at themselves and examine some deep stuff that can be pretty painful, and 2) the faithful person has to be VERY patient and generous at a time when they are the wounded party! 

I will write more maybe later tonight, but I wanted to start at least writing and see if we couldn't strike up a dialogue.


----------



## Kaliber

Newgem said:


> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.


That's why I don't believe in reconciliation, it's too risky, but I wish you luck, you're going to need it!


----------



## EdDean

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Newgem
> 
> I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard.
> 
> So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses.
> 
> For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?
> 
> So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!
> 
> Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way.
> 
> So #2 begin to accept that the fact that your actions caused the death of your relationship with your spouse.
> 
> Now, getting through just those two things is often more than many people can bear. In real life, people very rarely do recover and TRULY reconcile after infidelity because it takes two miracles: 1) the unfaithful person has to be VERY humble and look at themselves and examine some deep stuff that can be pretty painful, and 2) the faithful person has to be VERY patient and generous at a time when they are the wounded party!
> 
> I will write more maybe later tonight, but I wanted to start at least writing and see if we couldn't strike up a dialogue.





Newgem said:


> I've written him a letter and apologized millions of times. Currently trying to be the best mother and wife I can be. What other steps would be best besides the therapy? Oh, and we've talked about what I've done and I've confessed to mostly everything. I deleted all the apps and contact with others couple weeks ago.


While you’re trying to establish care or begin working with IC some people suggest reading Linda Macdonalds “How to help your spouse heal from your affair”. It’s not too long you could read it in one sitting. It’ll give you a basic idea of what your husband should hope from you and maybe some new ideas or concrete actions you can take.

I‘m not sure what you mean when you say “mostly everything”. If your husband told you to stop because he didn’t want to hear graphic details that’s one thing. But if you’re deliberately omitting things because you didn’t want to hurt him or, more likely, hurt your chances at R then that’s another.

Like Affaircare said your old marriage is gone. You ended it without asking your husband or giving him any choice in the matter. Can you imagine how that feels to him? From his point of view right now you’re a stranger who just happens to resemble his missing ex wife. A stranger who’s asking him to start a new marriage. You need to start from ground zero and complete honesty. So I would find a way to tell him everything or at least the option to hear it.


----------



## manowar

Diana7 said:


> Irl many men wouldn't get the attention they get on OLD either. It goes both ways. I think my husband is
> pleased he didn't avoid OLD.
> Anyway back to the subject.



Men dont get anywhere close to the attention that women get on these sites. *That's a fact.* Its guys (stupid guys) sending dozens of messages with maybe one response. And women w/ mailboxes full. Can't believe men fall for this setup but apparently they do.


----------



## uphillbattle

Newgem said:


> What other steps would be best besides the therapy? Oh, and we've talked about what I've done and I've confessed to *mostly* everything.


Correct the emboldened word for starters.


----------



## sokillme

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


You need to leave your husband. You are being terribly cruel to him.

Your actions show you don't really love him.


----------



## Luckylucky

Apart from asking a lot of questions here, and repeating how you need help, have you put anything into action?

I need help, I messed up, I know I need help, I’m willing to get help, I’m going to get help. I’m going to be the best mum and wife.

What are you actively doing with yourself these days?

And you’ve been through this 4 years ago.

it’s a really confusing post that’s going nowhere really.


----------



## manowar

There is so much going on here with this chick. Basically a late 30s hottie; past her prime but still up there. Your looks are extremely important to you and are your identity. Way more than your career. Side story -- I met an old lady in Fla 2 years ago. She wore these outlandish clothes with vivid colors. I asked her why she wears that stuff. She said because otherwise, she is completely invisible. No one notices her. Wearing those clothes is the only way people see her now. I asked her for a picture when she was young. Lo and hold she was an ex-hottie. Shocker, right lol.



Newgem said:


> I realize* I have a problem*, no need to bash me.


 What you say is your problem is a couple of things. 1) this is your nature as a woman. Female Nature. You are confusing acts of_ morality_ imposed by society and by your clergyman for your _biological tendencies_. When you say I know its wrong' I have a problem -- that's morality. All systems of morality btw have been invented by men. What you are feeling is biological. So this is where there's some confusion. You know it's wrong but I can't help it. there really are few restraints on female nature today. Female nature has been unleashed on society. OLD, Instagram, snapshot, etcccc promote and encourage women to act out. Men are left out in the cold with little recourse to compete. Women are able to get more attention than they ever dreamed. However, Men have a silver bullet, and its called commitment. Men are not marrying these chicks. Marriage rates have fallen. Men are refusing to provide for them for a variety of reasons.


This validation for you is, in the same way, a fish needs water You've always been this way and treat guys like sh+t when they become easy and give in. You do it because the guys allow you to get away with it and because you can. Sure it's not nice, but who said women are higher beings, of higher virtue, kinder, made of gold, the prize (complete fking nonsense). this is a fantasy created by our clergymen who have taught men to see women this way along with the Machine - religion, media, tv, movies, romantic comedy, education. Women are ruthless in many respects. Men, naive men, find this out when it's too late.



Newgem said:


> The thing is it’s not just one side lover. I talk to *multiple *different men, and *if I lose interest I cut them off quick and don’t care. I was the same way in person with men when I lived out of state and went out with friends. Very cold attitude.*
> I think my head has blown up very big over the years.


Women with HSE (high self-esteem) don't do this. 

2) you have many indications of LSE - low self-esteem. This is part of the reason you need this validation. This validation by guys builds you back up. The more the merrier -- its several doses at once to build you up. The ones that back off, get bored, or lose interest and want something in return you ghost. these guys are wasting their time w/ you for the most part. Did you tell them you are married? No. Why not. Because you need their bs and they are willing to give it to you. You are dealing for the most part with weak guys who are willing to this. Id have you figured out in 10 minutes tops. The turning point is when you meet that guy who doesn't put up with your sh+t, yet is handsome, charismatic and the rest of it. You'll be meeting this guy where he tells you to meet him and it will be more than talk and a few kisses. This guy won't accept that. This guy wants you on your back and in other positions and he won't be afraid to tell you. We are not dealing w/ a nice guy here.

more on your husband and nice guys later.....


----------



## jjj858

What you need to do to me seems quite simple. Stop going on these websites or apps looking for attention. Just stop doing it. Stop caving to temptation. Communicate more clearly with your husband. If there’s a certain thing you need from him let him know. Men aren’t mind readers. Turn to your husband for attention and stay true to your vows. Your husband is lucky if none of those previous encounters of yours involved sex.


----------



## manowar

*At this point I've been working my 'dream' job for about 3-4 months now and I HATE it. It's super stressful and I dread work each day. *

you wrote this a few years ago. The Machine promised you this utopia. As a woman, you must have it all. A fulfilling career. Just being a good mother and wife is unworthy. How'd that turn out for you? Now you know what us men have known all along. 

Do you really think your husband loves getting up in the morning trudging off to Big Law or Big Corp doing that 'mind-numbing soul-destroying work? Hey it aint so bad -- only another 35 years of this sh+t. He does it because he's been programmed to do it by the Machine. To make you happy (so he thinks.) Little does he know that women are never happy, and you're not really all that attracted to him anymore. (You should see the mens faces when I tell them this stuff.) Protect his princess from the cruelty of the world. Pay the electric bill. Your car lease and the rest of your unnecessary bs like paying for your dating app membership.


Here's a quote from The Manipulated man -- ester vilar. you can download it. You should read this and see the other side. Things that never crossed your mind due to your own brainwashing. 

For the record, I'm the second kind of guy (retired around 44). I would never do what your husband does. I dont care what the lady looks like. I simply will not spend my life as her worker bee. Slavery is far worse than anything. There are a million other women out there for me to take my chances with. The problem is that women have come to expect this from men. They dont even appreciate it anymore. When is the Man the King for doing this. It always the woman is the queen; he's lucky to have her (that's laughable). Many wives have turned out to be dead weights and huge liabilities for these nice guys who are blind to it.


If a young man gets married, starts a family, and spends the rest of his
life working at a* soul-destroying job, he is held up as an example of
virtue and responsibility.* The other type of man, living only for himself,
working only for himself, doing first one thing and then another simply
because he enjoys it and because he has to keep only himself, sleeping
where and when he wants, and facing woman when he meets her, on
equal terms and not as one of a *million slaves*, is rejected by society. The
free, unshackled man has no place in its midst.​


----------



## Luckylucky

Some of us do appreciate and adore our men, she’s not one of them. Some of us aren’t online seeking stupidity.


----------



## manowar

Luckylucky said:


> Some of us do appreciate and adore our men, she’s not one of them. Some of us aren’t online seeking stupidity.



HSE women for the most part have a limited presence on social media platforms. Men should seek out the sort of women described above.

The problem is the average man is still under some kind of a spell and doesn't know how to qualify a woman for a LTR. In fact, it wouldn't cross his mind. The avg man probably puts more analysis into buying a refrigerator than he does in marrying his wife.


----------



## colingrant

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


It's pretty simple. Your conscious feels bad, but your emotions win out and the appeal and return for you is stronger than the appeal of marriage. Specifically, the emotional high you receive from talking, sexting, sexxing and playing with other men holds higher priority and is stronger than the love and loyalty you have for your husband. Cold reality, but reality nonetheless.

To your defense, not all humans are cut out to be loyal and married. It doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you a person unfit for a healthy monogamous relationship and marriage. Here is what's wrong though. You are wrong staying married to a man who loves you and believes you are a monogamous type. You're not. Again, this doesn't make you bad but it does make you a fraud of a wife and your husband has, is and will pay a horrific price at your behest. 

The least you can do is have the integrity and strength to realize you are incapable of being loyal to him. I suspect the body count is so high you couldn't even type up the number of men you've been with. You want your husband but you also want other men. 

Go to the other men and let go of him. He will be disappointed but what he won't know immediately but will overtime is the result of you divorcing him will enable him to cease the dishonor, disrespect and disheartening. Additionally, he can find a woman who can love and be loyal to him. Really, that's all men and women want. Minimally that.


----------



## GoldenR

I just read where you said you've confessed to "mostly everything".

Yeah...you've changed.


----------



## jim123

Given you did not do the work the first time, understand your bh will not have too much faith. Kissing also makes it a PA as well. It seems people around you either encourage or tolerate your behavior. They must go too.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Newgem said:


> It's a christian culture, where its ideal to stick to your own race and morals/values are highly respected. I was raised by my parents who were an arranged marriage, old fashioned, etc... t


I am not sure this tells me enough - Christian culture, stick to your own race (which is?), arranged marriage??? I take it your culture is based outside of the USA? Why can you not say where it is from?


----------



## Galabar01

Newgem said:


> ... and I've confessed to mostly everything.


Oh dear.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Newgem said:


> I'm very serious and willing to do whatever it takes. My first step would to seek a counselor on addictive behavior? And get off all apps/social media


But why? See, I think you are non-monogamous, and you are trying to lead a monogamous life. You say you love your husband and yet there is a clear disconnect. You love him yes, a a friend and a co-parent to your kid. That is all. 

There is nothing wrong with being non-monogamous in and of itself, nor is there anything wrong (IMO) with being promiscuous. Nothing wrong with these lifestyle choices in and of themselves as long as you don't drag a monogamous person into a lifestyle that is abhorrent to them. Your husband should not be allowing you to drag him behind you as you seek out the next partner of the week. 

My advice is to give your husband a fair divorce with 50% custody of your child, then once the divorce is final, go out and smash random men to your heart's content. Plant your flag and be the vixen you have always wanted to be. Be free. Let your monogamous husband go and find a woman who will truly love and respect him and who doesn't need round-the-clock attention to validate her existence. 

Stop living a lie. Stop trying to have what you are not equipped to have. You were never cut out for monogamous marriage and never will be. If you absolutely have to, find a husband who is into the "lifestyle", swinging and hotwifing, and go that route, then you can have the best of both worlds. You can have the home-life, stability and trappings of a traditional marriage, while getting all the goodbar you can handle on the side with your new husband's consent.


----------



## Talker67

manowar said:


> Men dont get anywhere close to the attention that women get on these sites. *That's a fact.* Its guys (stupid guys) sending dozens of messages with maybe one response. And women w/ mailboxes full. Can't believe men fall for this setup but apparently they do.


hey, horny guys are...well...randy.
that is why OnlyFans women can makes so much money, they are providing a service that some men desperately need, and can not find any other way.

in a way it is sad, because i bet there are a similar number of horny single women who too can not find any one. And, although is seems like a no-brainer, the Online Dating Services are obviously NOT working....or there would be a whole lot more physical dating going on, and a whole lot less desperate men trying to get the attention of a woman online!


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> I've read all your response and thanks for the replies. I still think people can change, no matter how many times they've made that mistake. Clearly I need therapy and will seek it


Ok, so brush everything off people are saying to you here and go about your status quo. You won't change unless you are at the brink of really losing your marriage. 

Therapy isn't going to do it unless they also suggest separation. Because you'll be diligent, again, get comfortable, and you'll be back at wanting strange.

You need to seriously lose what you have in order to know not to get comfortable again.

Oh, another thing, you "mostly confessed" to everything? You do this in the hopes your husband won't think its that bad in order to avoid separation/divorce.

In other words as long as you don't face real consequences for your actions, you won't change. I don't care how many times you say you can. You won't as long as you are still lying to him by omission. 

So you're plan is therapy, and getting off social media app(until you get the itch again and get back on them.)


----------



## drencrom

Kaliber said:


> That's why I don't believe in reconciliation, it's too risky, but I wish you luck, you're going to need it!


Precisely. Like in my situation, even if I had wanted to reconcile with my x-wife, and she did change at least by making good on not actively cheating any longer, I would still be with a woman that thinks about the excitement she had with other men and deep down she secretly would like to do it again, she just doesn't because of what she has to lose.

Thats not good enough for me, and I suspect one main reason @Newgem will not tell her husband everything. She doesn't want to be seen as severely damaged goods, just a little wear and tear.


----------



## drencrom

manowar said:


> Validation Queen. And because you can. It's easy. OLD favors women and these types of antics.


Ok, I have to ask, what is OLD?

Edit: nevermind, figured out its online dating.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> Yeah he's saying the same thing. *That if he forgives me, that wont be good for him or me*. I'll be prepared for the worst I guess.


Especially since you aren't telling him everything. If he forgives you its because you didn't tell him everything. If you tell him everything he might just leave. Then if he forgives you and you went to the brink scared sh**less that you really almost lost your marriage, then maybe, MAYBE you have a chance at changing.

But then again, there is that "boredom" you say you feel. If you can't fix that somehow, then the 7 year itch will come around maybe in another 4 years again.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> Your suggestions are interesting. *The sex based website thing definitely won't work*. He's not the type to want to share etc. But the other stuff you mentioned might be fun. I am a very sexual person so I'm sure this plays a part in all of this.


BUT, you'd do it if he was open. This right here tells me you still would like the excitement of other men either getting off to you, or even contacting you or commenting.

Bottom line, you like the strange, you will always like the strange. Even with the suggestions you were given about sex based website you didn't say, "NO, I don't want that anymore".

You still want it. You always will.

So tell your husband everything, not "mostly" everything, and set him free. Even if you never actually hook up with other men in the future, he would be with a woman that craves it and still wants it. I doubt he'd want a wife that, even though the actual cheating stops, still would seriously want it. Because deep down, I know it and you know it, if, lets say, you were away on a trip thousands of miles apart and you were able to hook up with a guy for a night and you'd never see him again and your husband would never find out, you'd to him. Don't say you wouldn't. Your words here, or rather lack of saying you don't want that anymore, tells us that if given the perfect opportunity, you'd scratch that itch.


----------



## jsmart

Newgem said:


> No I didn’t have sex with multiple men. Made out and spoke to - yes, but no sex. I do want to fix myself and will search for a therapist. I need help


The making out with multiple men, and I’m assuming heavy petting, was back 2017 or is that now. If that making out was in 2017 and this time around, you didn’t meet any of these guys in person, does that mean you never had sex with another man while married? 

Also, have you and your husband been tested for fertility issues to determine exactly why you’re not able to conceive? Low sperm count, unhealthy eggs, uterus shape, etc. if so, you don’t have to tell us the cause, I just want to know if you guys have been medically checked .


----------



## SunCMars

I attribute 'much' of your behavior to an over-active sexual desire, and some sort of anxiety desire.

They literally tingle, than tangle up your life.

Combined, they have become destructive to your marriage.

This appears to me as (primarily) a blood/brain chemical imbalance that leads you to do harm to your life and marriage.

It was, and seems, still, this obsession to seek out the attention and that stimulation from men.

It seems you have this 'other' person in your head, demanding attention and release.

Did you suffer from _childhood sexual abuse_, (CSA), when young?

If so, you may have been imprinted, with you desiring to relive those scenes, anew, and in the 'now'.



_King Brian-_


----------



## SunCMars

Some have these imaginary scabs that they pick at until they bleed.

Some have these scabs in their mind, in their memory. 

They pick at them until they internally bleed, and these seed the next naughty behavioral aura.


_Nemesis-_


----------



## ElOtro

Newgem said:


> Listen,
> People CAN and do change.





NorthernGirl said:


> Just curious if you also said this the last time you cheated? We all know how that worked out...


I agree, "People CAN and do change". 
But some don´t and it´s not about fate.
Some distinctions between succesful and failed purposes to improve...
As a medical doc you probably know better than me the importance of a good diagnosis on changing what needs a change. Not only the nature of the problem but it´s severity and "clinical" history.
The will to change. Would you make it as epic as the offence is as seen by him?
The related object of the "problem" and the purpose of solving it. 
If it´s about you, you don´t need keep him sadly tied while you solve your personal / individual issues. 
But the one broken by your behaviour is the human couple that your husband thought he may have while he did not.
And about the most important factor of them all.....
The very core nature of the love between a man and a woman is, against other´s oppinions, to be in love.
I´ve read somewhere the question on "how much being in love last anyhow".
It may persist for a week or for a life. But the right answer is IMO: same time as couples should last as valuable ones to fight for and even to die for if needed.
Even if you keep for him a lot of familiar / friendly / whatever else kind of love, make both a valuable favor divorcing him if one of you or both are not in love with the other.

Best wishes.


----------



## Rus47

jsmart said:


> married?
> 
> Also, have you and your husband been tested for fertility issues to determine exactly why you’re not able to conceive? Low sperm count, unhealthy eggs, uterus shape, etc. if so, you don’t have to tell us the cause, I just want to know if you guys have been medically checked .


"The making out with multiple men, and I’m assuming heavy petting, was back 2017 or is that now. If that making out was in 2017 and this time around, you didn’t meet any of these guys in person, does that mean you never had sex with another man while"

I am a little puzzled how a couple can make out without meeting. Maybe the term has changed. I always thought of precursor to and usually progressing to foreplay. I am envisioning OP kising, caressing, etc with multiple other men. And, imagine progressing to everything excepting PIV. She minimizes.


----------



## Openminded

I was married to a serial cheater. He wanted to be married but he also wanted the excitement that you get with a shiny new toy. People like him find daily life too boring, too ordinary, too flat without that rush. It’s too much fun for them to let go of. I get it. But marriage unfortunately doesn’t work with that mindset.


----------



## manowar

ArthurGPym said:


> But why? I think you are non-monogamous, and you are trying to lead a monogamous life




The husband provides a good solid backstop. A safe home base as well as material and emotional support. She seeks attention and the attention she receives is equated with having value. She is not alone. It's a fundamental principle of many women on OLD. She's also not feeling it romantically. Perhaps she's ready to declare -- ILYBIANILWY.

She says she gets the attention in real life too. Maybe she does but now she can sit in her pajamas in her living room and receive it. . All the while the husband is out in the world Doing, Making, Creating, Earning something. Because this is what men do. Men built the fking world.

For some guys, it might be hard to believe how vital (like air) this attention thing is. To us, it sounds so trivial and frivolous and empty. Completely substanceless ---- Instagram, FB, Snap Chat, and the rest of that nonsense. But it is very real w/ many women. This is what they do. This is what you are dealing w/. Answer - Don't deal w/ it.

OLD video. Guys this is what you are up against. Rule 1. Never Validate. Rule 2. Avoid OLD. I see the middle-aged ones (40-60) playing the exact same game. Average looking at best (w/ the photoshop manipulation) The thing they don't realize is that the older guys dont care. Their odds of getting married are maybe 1/1mil.


----------



## Newgem

Cynthia said:


> You are using male attention like a drug to make you feel better. Doing so hurts your husband and your family as a whole. It's easy to get male attention to soothe yourself when you are upset, but the after effects are destructive.
> 
> How do you stop? You have to recognize it for what it is and stop welcoming it generally. Don't make eye contact with men or to smile at them, if they are outside your family or trusted circle. Mind your own business. I know that for some women it can be especially difficult to ignore, but it can be done.
> 
> My daughter is stunningly gorgeous and she has some kind of energy that is like a man magnet. This is not her doing anything, trust me. She can be driving in her car, minding her own business, and men will try to engage with her, while driving! It's very weird. Anyway, she has never seen it as a way to make herself feel better. We talked about it when she was young and discussed the implications of giving it a place in her life. Today she is a married woman who has a husband that adores her and recognizes her beauty. She has never provoked male attention, but she has learned how to reject it and put a stop to it. It can be tiring, so she actually wears a shirt that says, "BACK OFF CREEP." She has had to explain to men, trying to engage her over her shirt, that, "Look Dude, you are the creep." She sees this kind of attention as a distraction and annoying, rather than being flattered or energized by it.
> 
> Seriously, you have to stop seeing it as flattering and see it as a distraction to your life and something that is not welcome. Just as if you were hooked on drugs. Sure they make you feel better for the moment, but the repercussions are not worth it. Furthermore, it doesn't bring you lasting joy like a healthy relationship should
> 
> It is all about your mindset, which is off track. Reset your focus and face your issues. You stated that your issues are feelings of inadequacy and disappointment over not conceiving. You are trying to soothe yourself to relieve your pain. A better way to do that is to get closer to your husband and focus on your family. Instead, you looked outside and brought danger into your home. You have torn your home down with your own hands. That is foolishness. How do you stop being foolish? Seek wisdom. Personally, I pray for wisdom daily. I suggest you do that same.


I just want to truly thank you for your reply. I’ve read it multiple times and its making me open my eyes to my actions.
Yes indeed I feed off of it. It comes easily so it’s hard not to take advantage of it. But I like what you suggested. Since it’s like an addiction/drug, I just need to avoid it. But that needs to be replaced by something.... I’ve looked outside for comfort rather than getting it internally from my family. I feel like you understand me. I will pray and seek wisdom daily.

EDIT: the t-shirt thing is kinda unusual , but other than that she had good advice.


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> I just want to truly thank you for your reply. I’ve read it multiple times and its making me open my eyes to my actions.
> Yes indeed I feed off of it. It comes so easily so it’s hard not to take advantage of it. But I like what you suggested. Since it’s like an addiction/drug, I just need to avoid it. But that needs to be replaced by something.... I’ve looked outside for comfort rather than getting it internally from my family. I feel like you understand me. I will pray and seek wisdom daily.


I don't think a person can kick an addiction by just deciding to avoid what they are addicted to. If that were true, AA would never have gotten off of the ground. Drug addicts fight their whole lives to get the monkey off of their back. 

If you just decide to "just say no" as a way to defeat your addiction, I fear you will fail.


----------



## manowar

She has never provoked male attention, but she has learned how to reject it and put a stop to it.* It can be tiring, so she actually wears a shirt that says, "BACK OFF CREEP."* She has had to explain to men, trying to engage her over her shirt, that, "Look Dude, you are the creep." She sees this kind of attention as a distraction and annoying, rather than being flattered or energized by it. 

--------------------------- ---------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------

Poor thing. She's too pretty for the world. maybe that will be the next victim group. those who are too hot.

Don't worry one day it will just stop. Like the elderly lady, I meet in florida with the vivid clothes or my friend's cousin who received similar undeserved attention for years and was aghast when the same tools began refusing her requests when she aged. Nature has a way of evening up. No one gets a free lunch as Milton Friedman often claimed. 

Trust me when the day comes -- your daughter won't need her Back Off Creep T-Shirts....... It's a well-known time point like the winter solstice or similar to when a flower begins to wither - And the wall is undefeated. Look it up.

It's gradual. You'll hardly notice at first. At first, all those guys that you friend-zoned will just be a-holes. because they no longer respond like the trained seal you thought they were. But eventually, the truth will be hard to deny. All those tools who hover around hanging on your every word all of a sudden won't be so interested. They are no longer keen on doing you a favor or chatting about nothing online with nothing in return. the free attention just won't be there anymore. It'll dry up like living in the desert. Its at this stage where the fantasy world you lived in begins to transform into the real world. See time moves in one direction. It's a straight arrow. There's no going back. So dont worry -- just wait it out a few more years. everything will even up. nature will solve your problem for sure. Guaranteed.


----------



## Luckylucky

manowar said:


> She has never provoked male attention, but she has learned how to reject it and put a stop to it.* It can be tiring, so she actually wears a shirt that says, "BACK OFF CREEP."* She has had to explain to men, trying to engage her over her shirt, that, "Look Dude, you are the creep." She sees this kind of attention as a distraction and annoying, rather than being flattered or energized by it.
> 
> --------------------------- ---------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------
> 
> Poor thing. She's too pretty for the world. maybe that will be the next victim group. those who are too hot.
> 
> Don't worry one day it will just stop. Like the elderly lady, I meet in florida with the vivid clothes or my friend's cousin who received similar undeserved attention for years and was aghast when the same tools began refusing her requests when she aged. Nature has a way of evening up. No one gets a free lunch as Milton Friedman often claimed.
> 
> Trust me when the day comes -- your daughter won't need her Back Off Creep T-Shirts....... It's a well-known time point like the winter solstice or similar to when a flower begins to wither - And the wall is undefeated. Look it up.
> 
> It's gradual. You'll hardly notice at first. At first, all those guys that you friend-zoned will just be a-holes. because they no longer respond like the trained seal you thought they were. But eventually, the truth will be hard to deny. All those tools who hover around hanging on your every word all of a sudden won't be so interested. They are no longer keen on doing you a favor or chatting about nothing online with nothing in return. the free attention just won't be there anymore. It'll dry up like living in the desert. Its at this stage where the fantasy world you lived in begins to transform into the real world. See time moves in one direction. It's a straight arrow. There's no going back. So dont worry -- just wait it out a few more years. everything will even up. nature will solve your problem for sure. Guaranteed.


I would predict she lost it or never had it, this is why she seeks it online 😉

If you’ve got it, you see it in the mirror and respect the man who put a ring on it. Plus wear the t-shirt.


----------



## colingrant

Newgem said:


> I just want to truly thank you for your reply. I’ve read it multiple times and its making me open my eyes to my actions.
> Yes indeed I feed off of it. It comes so easily so it’s hard not to take advantage of it. But I like what you suggested. Since it’s like an addiction/drug, I just need to avoid it. But that needs to be replaced by something.... I’ve looked outside for comfort rather than getting it internally from my family. I feel like you understand me. I will pray and seek wisdom daily.


One doesn't just avoid an addiction to get rid of it. One has to defeat (manage) the addiction one day at a time with professional and consultative intervention and facilitation.


----------



## Newgem

manowar said:


> There is so much going on here with this chick. Basically a late 30s hottie; past her prime but still up there. Your looks are extremely important to you and are your identity. Way more than your career. Side story -- I met an old lady in Fla 2 years ago. She wore these outlandish clothes with vivid colors. I asked her why she wears that stuff. She said because otherwise, she is completely invisible. No one notices her. Wearing those clothes is the only way people see her now. I asked her for a picture when she was young. Lo and hold she was an ex-hottie. Shocker, right lol.
> 
> 
> 
> What you say is your problem is a couple of things. 1) this is your nature as a woman. Female Nature. You are confusing acts of_ morality_ imposed by society and by your clergyman for your _biological tendencies_. When you say I know its wrong' I have a problem -- that's morality. All systems of morality btw have been invented by men. What you are feeling is biological. So this is where there's some confusion. You know it's wrong but I can't help it. there really are few restraints on female nature today. Female nature has been unleashed on society. OLD, Instagram, snapshot, etcccc promote and encourage women to act out. Men are left out in the cold with little recourse to compete. Women are able to get more attention than they ever dreamed. However, Men have a silver bullet, and its called commitment. Men are not marrying these chicks. Marriage rates have fallen. Men are refusing to provide for them for a variety of reasons.
> 
> 
> This validation for you is, in the same way, a fish needs water You've always been this way and treat guys like sh+t when they become easy and give in. You do it because the guys allow you to get away with it and because you can. Sure it's not nice, but who said women are higher beings, of higher virtue, kinder, made of gold, the prize (complete fking nonsense). this is a fantasy created by our clergymen who have taught men to see women this way along with the Machine - religion, media, tv, movies, romantic comedy, education. Women are ruthless in many respects. Men, naive men, find this out when it's too late.
> 
> 
> 
> Women with HSE (high self-esteem) don't do this.
> 
> 2) you have many indications of LSE - low self-esteem. This is part of the reason you need this validation. This validation by guys builds you back up. The more the merrier -- its several doses at once to build you up. The ones that back off, get bored, or lose interest and want something in return you ghost. these guys are wasting their time w/ you for the most part. Did you tell them you are married? No. Why not. Because you need their bs and they are willing to give it to you. You are dealing for the most part with weak guys who are willing to this. Id have you figured out in 10 minutes tops. The turning point is when you meet that guy who doesn't put up with your sh+t, yet is handsome, charismatic and the rest of it. You'll be meeting this guy where he tells you to meet him and it will be more than talk and a few kisses. This guy won't accept that. This guy wants you on your back and in other positions and he won't be afraid to tell you. We are not dealing w/ a nice guy here.
> 
> more on your husband and nice guys later.....


Yeah I know I’ll be old and wrinkly one day. And? That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I can to look my best today. You look good - you feel good. Majority of ppl are too lazy to get off their asses and better themselves. Yet they complain and whine about how they can’t put that third serving of cake down, or how hard it is to wake up a little early to go for a jog, let alone a run. 

I appreciate the life lessons but I’m not a basic beta here. I’ve read millionaire fast lane, thou shall prosper, the war of art, unscripted, and a number of other books and I’ve tried my fair share of failed side hustles. That’s why I’m still doing what I currently do. Which is highly respected btw.

And I realize things have been instilled in society: primarily for control and manipulation.

Right. So I’m experiencing morality, and that’s been established. And my biological tendencies are? Do explain. Is it to procreate? 

Yes I know onlyfans, ig, all these apps are causing women to choose to act out in order to feel significant . As though acting out gives them some sense of accomplishment or fulfillment. It’s a new era. Personally I have no IG, fb, etc. I could care less what people post on their highlight reel of life. 

I’m LSE based on my actions on those apps? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and those apps sure might validate but more as mere entertainment.

Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick? I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist. My issue is what I came on here for. I need an alternate way to handle my stress and need to look internally rather than externally. In addition, I need to channel all the energy I put into the apps and time waste into something productive in my life... 

And the not so nice guy you describe. I have yet to meet him. And given my current situation, I hope I never ****ing do.

You’re right about one thing - women are never satisfied right? LSE women like ME that is. Am I right?

Bravo to you for retiring early. Let me guess you have no children and aren’t married. You have a million other women to take chances with, I know. I mentioned above that I know what men want. I’ll briefly describe it. Someone spiritual, intellectual, intelligent, well spoken, witty, cute, sexual, and sexy AF. Someone whod have you wrapped around her finger with one look in your eyes. I hope you find her.


----------



## Newgem

Rus47 said:


> "Mostly" wont do. You have to confess EVERYTHING. But you surely know that already.


Yes I know this. And for everyone who keeps bringing up the word “mostly”- to clarify, I have told him everything, the big picture. The whole thing was a total of 2 months. I never met up with any of these men. What I mean by mostly is I haven’t said every little minute detail. I don’t even remember it. The big picture, the important parts I have told him.


----------



## TriX

Newgem said:


> Yeah I know I’ll be old and wrinkly one day. And? That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I can to look my best today. You look good - you feel good. Majority of ppl are too lazy to get off their asses and better themselves. Yet they complain and whine about how they can’t put that third serving of cake down, or how hard it is to wake up a little early to go for a jog, let alone a run.
> 
> I appreciate the life lessons but I’m not a basic beta here. I’ve read millionaire fast lane, thou shall prosper, the war of art, unscripted, and a number of other books and I’ve tried my fair share of failed side hustles. That’s why I’m still doing what I currently do. Which is highly respected btw.
> 
> And I realize things have been instilled in society: primarily for control and manipulation.
> 
> Right. So I’m experiencing morality, and that’s been established. And my biological tendencies are? Do explain. Is it to procreate?
> 
> Yes I know onlyfans, ig, all these apps are causing women to choose to act out in order to feel significant . As though acting out gives them some sense of accomplishment or fulfillment. It’s a new era. Personally I have no IG, fb, etc. I could care less what people post on their highlight reel of life.
> 
> I’m LSE based on my actions on those apps? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and those apps sure might validate but more as mere entertainment.
> 
> Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick? I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist. My issue is what I came on here for. I need an alternate way to handle my stress and need to look internally rather than externally. In addition, I need to channel all the energy I put into the apps and time waste into something productive in my life...
> 
> And the not so nice guy you describe. I have yet to meet him. And given my current situation, I hope I never ****ing do.
> 
> You’re right about one thing - women are never satisfied right? LSE women like ME that is. Am I right?
> 
> Bravo to you for retiring early. Let me guess you have no children and aren’t married. You have a million other women to take chances with, I know. I mentioned above that I know what men want. I’ll briefly describe it. Someone spiritual, intellectual, intelligent, well spoken, witty, cute, sexual, and sexy AF. Someone whod have you wrapped around her finger with one look in your eyes. I hope you find her.


This is quite a visceral reaction, compared to all the other responses you have posted.

Not saying it is true, but could there be some truth in what manowar posted that has touched a nerve?

Might be worth exploring why it triggered you so.


----------



## manowar

Newgem said:


> My issue is what I came on here for. I need an alternate way to handle my stress and need to look internally rather than externally. In addition,* I need to channel all the energy I put into the apps and time waste into something productive in my life...*


Maybe your making some progress after all. 



Newgem said:


> Yes I know onlyfans, ig, all these apps are causing women to choose to act out in order to feel significant . As though acting out gives them some sense of accomplishment or fulfillment. It’s a new era. Personally, I have no IG, fb, etc. *I could care less what people post on their highlight reel of life.*


Good. You get it and see it for what it is. It's a fantasy world as is OLD.



Newgem said:


> And my biological tendencies are


female nature is biological, not moral. Men often look at cheating by saying something like "how could she do it". He's thinking morality-based. These rules of morality were all invented by men to taper down a woman's nature. They are rules that prescribe how a woman *ought* to behave. Not how they actually are. Female nature is what it is. This is what the clergy should be teaching young guys instead of fairy tales.



Newgem said:


> I’ve been doing* a lot of thinking* and those apps sure might* validate* but more as mere *entertainment*.


that's what you want to do. *Think*. *Read. Learn*. Why do I do this? Why do I hurt my husband? Maybe the two are linked more than you realize. Some women have this need for attention. Have you lost attraction for your husband? Perhaps this is the real underlying reason why you are on those apps rather than mere entertainment. Is he too nice? Some dudes are actually too nice to their woman. 

BTW. This is why men should stay off of OLD. Women are on there to be entertained. And who entertains. Fools.



Newgem said:


> And I realize things have been instilled in society: primarily for control and manipulation.


Nice!!! 



Newgem said:


> Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick?


You called me out. That's fine. I only have to go by what you posted. I don't know you at all so none of this is personal. Just weighing in like others. Figured out that quickly. Just generalities and categories. 



Newgem said:


> I’m LSE based on my actions on those apps?


Not so much the apps but this:

_I talk to multiple different men, and *if I lose interest I cut them off quick and don’t care.* I was *the same way in person *with men when I lived out of state and went out with friends. *Very cold attitude.*
I think my head has blown up very big over the years._

This is what jumped out, and is the sort of sh+ty female behavior that men do not merely dislike and accept as part of the game but despise. It indicates a possible dislike of men. Is being cordial so difficult. Or telling the truth. Or avoiding these useless conversations in the first place as HSE do. Like I said HSE women don't do this. They don't treat people this way. Maybe you've grown used to it with so many weak men who will tolerate this crap and you find it amusing.

I would never treat any woman this way except one who treats me this way. I treat them the way Im treated. Learned that one a long time ago. What goes around comes around. Guys like me we don't forget. We don't play that nice guy game like so many of these Christian guys have been brainwashed. It gets registered in the back of our minds.

Look into this LSE/HSE stuff. Maybe I'm wrong. Again I don't know you. Basket cases cannot change. Since you are here looking for answers, this indicates you are far from a basket case. Basket cases create drama and sabotage good relationships usually because they don't feel worthy of a healthy normal relationship or a guy who treats them well. You didn't come close to that. Yours is pretty tame really than most of the stories on here. If there are esteem issues (which are very common with all sorts of women including the most beautiful), you can fix it. You think those girls posting 10 pics a day on IG or pics on FB when they were 20 yrs younger are HSE? Maybe some actually making money at it on IG.

This LSE/HSE issue is probably the single most important reason men screw up in choosing a mate. Id say the majority of cheating women on this site are LSE. Some are so obvious by their insane behavior but the men have no idea what they are dealing with.



Newgem said:


> I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist.


Ok you are a seductress. Who knows, anything is possible.


----------



## Talker67

manowar said:


> female nature is biological, not moral. Men often look at cheating by saying something like "how could she do it". He's thinking morality-based. These rules of morality were all invented by men to taper down a woman's nature. They are rules that prescribe how a woman *ought* to behave. Not how they actually are. Female nature is what it is. This is what the clergy should be teaching young guys instead of fairy tales.


it would be simple to agree with that.
but there are countless examples of people who do not act only biologically.
How about a woman who stays with a man who medically can no longer have sex?
How about a woman who chooses to not cheat because she is inherently good instead of evil?

Yes there are base genetic and biological reasons we act in certain ways. but since humans can reason, they can OVERRIDE those base instincts with thoughtful choices instead!


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> Yes I know this. And for everyone who keeps bringing up the word “mostly”- to clarify, I have told him everything, the big picture. The whole thing was a total of 2 months. I never met up with any of these men. What I mean by mostly is I haven’t said every little minute detail. I don’t even remember it. The big picture, the important parts I have told him.


Newgem, have you found someone to counsel you about addictive behavior? Have you met with them to develop a treatment plan? Have you found a group of women with similar attention-seeking problems?

Writing on an anonymous internet forum wont get you where you say you want to go with your life. I believe you recognize that spending time online attracting male attention will only escalate, as the ego kibbles needed to satisfy require more degrading behavior. Like maybe start dancing in a club, or begin posting nude photos/movies online. There is no limit, just like a drug addict doesn't stop with one hit. If your husband separates from you, which believe you said was his stated intention, the anchor and restraining influence you now have will disappear. You will be free to destroy your life without limitation.

You have wasted at least four years and maybe a marriage by thinking you could tame the beast by willpower. No guarantee that therapy will cure you either, but absent a real heart change it is the only chance you have.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> Yeah I know I’ll be old and wrinkly one day. And? That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I can to look my best today. You look good - you feel good.


True. But most people do so to feel good about themselves. You do it for that AND to attract the attention of other men.



> I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist.


That perhaps is true, and also your problem. You are a narcissist. Conceited. Take a guy like me, you might be right because I'm single.

But make no mistake, if I am in a loving relationship and I was at a bar with some friends having a drink and you came up trying to be the seductress, I don't care what you look like, yes, resist comes all too easy.



> Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick?


Well there you have it folks. Instead of showing a little humility, she comes here gets all defensive and ignores the facts about her spouting the meaningless words about "people can change"

I think we need not waste any more of our time on @Newgem here.
She is abusing her husband, will continue to abuse him, will never get past her need for validation and taboo cheating. Only way you'll ever be happy is if your husband can turn into someone different each week.

So, everyone, time to cut her loose. She's a lost cause.


----------



## TDSC60

I think you like the "power" you seem to have over men.

Hard to give that up or change that mind set.


----------



## EdDean

Galabar01 said:


> Oh dear.





TDSC60 said:


> I think you like the "power" you seem to have over men.
> 
> Hard to give that up or change that mind set.


Does seem that way. Again, I think the first thing she should figure out is whether or not she even wants to be married. Might be happier as a single person and good co parent to their child.

I think society has people conditioned to think that the goal for everyone is to be happily married for 50+ years. You’re a “winner” if you are and a “loser” if you’re not.


----------



## Rus47

TDSC60 said:


> *I think you like the "power" you seem to have over men.*
> 
> Hard to give that up or change that mind set.


If she keeps up what she has been doing, sooner or later she will encounter a man who knows how to manipulate a woman. There are plenty of them out there, skilled at pushing the right buttons of an insecure, LSE female to get what they want. She is kidding herself if she thinks she will alwasy be in control. Wife and I have actually observed women just like OP abandon a loyal, solvent husband and end up with a man that rode them like a horse until he grew tired of them. RInse and repeat.


----------



## dadstartingover

"What is wrong with me?" --- You probably have some issues from childhood that you've never properly dealt with. I talk to men in the same boat... and men who have wives like yourself. It's always childhood issues. "Daddy issues", as men like to call it. 

Being a spouse is tough. Keep a marriage going is tough. It's a job that is NOT suitable for everyone. Some people just don't have the skills or know-how to pull it off. Wrong tools in the ol' mental toolbox. I would say you belong to the "should probably not be married" camp. If you were being honest with yourself, you'd probably agree. Your husband just needs to realize he was in the wrong section of the store when wife shopping. 

Note this doesn't make you an AWFUL PERSON. Just means you have some stuff to work out... and unfortunately, you hurt somebody in the process. The good news is that if he plays his cards right he'll bounce back from this with somebody else and one day forgive you.


----------



## drencrom

TDSC60 said:


> I think you like the "power" you seem to have over men.
> 
> Hard to give that up or change that mind set.


Precisely. She thinks too highly of herself. A narcissist will always seek validation.


----------



## Cynthia

A physical addiction to a substance is different than being addicted to a behavior, like flirting and attention seeking. In any addiction, mindset is key. You first have to recognize that you have a problem and you cannot control the addiction. Meaning, you have to completely turn away from the addiction, not indulge "just a little bit." The first step is recognizing that you have no control over the addiction, but you do have control over yourself. Whether or not you can overcome an ingrained behavior, like attention seeking as a soother, is to change how you perceive, think, and behave.

Avoiding the behavior and situations is not the only thing necessary to stop, but it plays an important role in stopping.

Initially, recognizing that you are looking at things incorrectly will help to change thinking, which then will lead to changed behavior. We act according to what we believe. If we let our emotions drive our behaviors, we will be all over the place, because emotions ebb and flow for most people.

@Newgem's behavior is a learned response to feeling bad and knowing that the affirmation will soothe her. That may be true for a moment, but then the consequences kick in and reap destruction.


----------



## Livvie

Yeah, that bit about one deep look from her and she'll have men wrapped around her finger actually made me nauseous. Gag! 

Gross.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Livvie said:


> Yeah, that bit about one deep look from her and she'll have men wrapped around her finger actually made me nauseous. Gag!
> 
> Gross.


I'm confident she won't change. The behavior is to ingrained in who she is.


----------



## Cynthia

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm confident she won't change. The behavior is to ingrained in who she is.


This really stinks. She comes here for help and she gets told that she's a hopeless case. There is such a thing as redemption. I've seen people change and believe it is possible.


----------



## Livvie

Cynthia said:


> This really stinks. She comes here for help and she gets told that she's a hopeless case. There is such a thing as redemption. I've seen people change and believe it is possible.


She came on here and replied to a poster that she could wrap him around her finger with one deep look. How is that indicative of someone in the same universe of wanting redemption?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Cynthia said:


> This really stinks. She comes here for help and she gets told that she's a hopeless case. There is such a thing as redemption. I've seen people change and believe it is possible.


Her posts indicate she isn't going to change. I suppose there is a chance if she were to suffer some kind of real consequences, like divorce.


----------



## drencrom

Cynthia said:


> This really stinks. She comes here for help and she gets told that she's a hopeless case. There is such a thing as redemption. I've seen people change and believe it is possible.


There is such a thing in redemption in those showing a little humility. She is that polar opposite of humility. She is full of herself, gets defensive when told the plain hard truth, and borderlines narcissism by saying things like she could have any man she wants and would have them wrapped around her little finger.

Yes, people can change. But her personality and demeanor tell us its not in the cards for her. A cheater that remains arrogant will not change. Like I said, she needs to be faced with the prospect of her husband wanting a divorce before that chip is knocked off her shoulder.


----------



## Diana7

TDSC60 said:


> I think you like the "power" you seem to have over men.
> 
> Hard to give that up or change that mind set.


Some people greatly over estimate the extent of the power they that they think they have over the opposite sex. Thinking that no man could resist you is clearly crazy.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Newgem said:


> The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and* met with a few when married before getting caugh*t.
> 
> I have not went back and read you story from 4 years ago. I assume the bold part means you met and had sex with these men (meaning more than 1)





Newgem said:


> *I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....*
> 
> It looks like you are actually doing the exact same thing again 4 years ago and you probably know that even through you haven't met any this time that it would have been only a matter of time before you started meeting them this time as well. I am sure your poor husband is thinking the same thing. What else would you expect him to think with your history.





Newgem said:


> My husband has zero trust in me.


How do you think he would have any trust in you based on what you have done. You also asked "what is wrong with me?" It is really very simple you care more about your needs and wants that you do about your husband and now also your 3 year old. You want random men to lust and make over you more than you can for the love of your husband and child. 

I know that sounds harsh but what else could it be. I am sure your husband is feeling the same way. The poor guy he has to be thinking that he has wasted the last 4 years of his life (at least he has now got a young child) I am sure you cried and begged for him to forgive you that you were so sorry and did not know why you done it and that you will spend the rest of your life making it up to him. He's the best thing that has ever happened to you and you will never do this to him again. Last question. How do you think he feels deep down now? I am sure he thinks its only a matter of time before you meet up with one of these guys or someone else you really connect with on line and sleep with them. I guess the pictures you shared again this time is in sexy lingerie or nude pictures. Best of luck! you will need it.


----------



## Newgem

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Newgem
> 
> I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard.
> 
> So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses.
> 
> For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?
> 
> So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!
> 
> Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way.
> 
> So #2 begin to accept that the fact that your actions caused the death of your relationship with your spouse.
> 
> Now, getting through just those two things is often more than many people can bear. In real life, people very rarely do recover and TRULY reconcile after infidelity because it takes two miracles: 1) the unfaithful person has to be VERY humble and look at themselves and examine some deep stuff that can be pretty painful, and 2) the faithful person has to be VERY patient and generous at a time when they are the wounded party!
> 
> I will write more maybe later tonight, but I wanted to start at least writing and see if we couldn't strike up a dialogue.


Hi there,

Thank your for being vulnerable and telling your story. I’m so sorry regarding the fertility issues you and your husband had. It can be such a hard thing to go through. It’s been super hard for me bc I like to have control of my life. And not having control of this really brings my mood down and it’s just been hard and sad. My brother And I have a huge gap between us and are not very close, so I always wished for my children to be close in age. Its like I tell myself I want my kids to have a 2 year gap for example, and when it doesn’t happen I rebel. In addition to all that, I wanted things to happen naturally. I don’t want to accelerate that process in anyway. 

I think I too need to change the way I think. Thankfully for your situation, you changed the first time around. For me, this isn’t the first case. And it’s not just one person I speak to.

How did you create a safe environment for yourself to do all those things? I’m happy you and your husband reconciled and are currently stronger than ever.

Good point that I reach out to others when in sorrow. I’m also discovering recently that it’s more of a distraction. It’s my way of distracting my mind from thinking about my problems and instead of trying to accept/take action towards it, I’m just allowing whatever happens happen.

Words must match with actions- I hear it loud and clear. 

The stabbing analogy and what my actions did to my marriage is very eye opening. Im starting to get it. I need it to last though.

Thank you for your suggestions and introduction.


----------



## Luckylucky

How’s your husband doing


----------



## manowar

Talker67 said:


> it would be simple to agree with that.
> but *there are countless examples of people who do not act only biologically.*
> How about a woman who stays with a man who medically can no longer have sex?
> How about a woman who chooses to not cheat because she is inherently good instead of evil?
> 
> Yes there are base genetic and biological reasons we act in certain ways. but since humans can reason, they can OVERRIDE those base instincts with thoughtful choices instead!



Great point. But let's not get cause and effect mixed up. I know there are countless cases. . It's not what Im saying. Your example places the intellect prior to the Will. No problem w/ that. In this case the lady already acted. Im not saying that she was compelled to act. She sought an *explanation* for her behavior (past behavior that she says is wrong yet she still did it) as do the husbands of cheaters -- the guy who says "How Could She".

The man who says this is broken because the lady broke the rules of marriage and moral rules invented by men. The act occurred in the past. He's seeking some sort of an 'explanation' from moral religion basically. In response to his problem -- my wife acted immorally. I'm saying the husband is looking in the wrong place. He should seek the explanation from evolutionary biology (for the act, which was still contemplated on some level and she went forward on it). She acted in accordance w/ her female nature because her emotions were aroused. She didn't care about the moral religious rules - they probably never factored into it as the guy thinks. this is one of the reasons cheating women let affair partners do things they don't let the husband do. It has nothing to do with morality or the marriage contract or all the stuff the husband does for her and everything to do with her emotional state. 

Women find it hotter to get it on w/ dudes that don't provide for them or have any control over them like their spouses do. (Psych studies back this up) Another one of these hard-to-take truths about the provider. Again -- your clergyman forgot to mention this stuff so long as you provide your donation every Sunday, smile, and keep quiet all is cool. Guys these clergymen don't give a fk about you.


----------



## californian

Newgem said:


> I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context).


It's not just for context, you are justifying it.



Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


You're choosing everything you do, including whether to brush your teeth in the morning or not.


----------



## EdDean

Diana7 said:


> Some people greatly over estimate the extent of the power they that they think they have over the opposite sex. Thinking that no man could resist you is clearly crazy.





BigDaddyNY said:


> Her posts indicate she isn't going to change. I suppose there is a chance if she were to suffer some kind of real consequences, like divorce.


I don’t disagree necessarily but people with addictive behavioral issues often have a lot of false starts and stops before success. So her past and current failures don’t necessarily predict her future. So I think there’s always hope.

Unfortunately what she’s asking her husband to do is take tremendous leap of faith that she’ll keep trying and eventually succeed. That’s a pretty big ask.


----------



## Talker67

manowar said:


> Great point. But let's not get cause and effect mixed up. I know there are countless cases. . It's not what Im saying. Your example places the intellect prior to the Will. No problem w/ that. In this case the lady already acted. Im not saying that she was compelled to act. She sought an *explanation* for her behavior (past behavior that she says is wrong yet she still did it) as do the husbands of cheaters -- the guy who says "How Could She".
> 
> The man who says this is broken because the lady broke the rules of marriage and moral rules invented by men. The act occurred in the past. He's seeking some sort of an 'explanation' from moral religion basically. In response to his problem -- my wife acted immorally. I'm saying the husband is looking in the wrong place. He should seek the explanation from evolutionary biology (for the act, which was still contemplated on some level and she went forward on it). She acted in accordance w/ her female nature because her emotions were aroused. She didn't care about the moral religious rules - they probably never factored into it as the guy thinks. this is one of the reasons cheating women let affair partners do things they don't let the husband do. It has nothing to do with morality or the marriage contract or all the stuff the husband does for her and everything to do with her emotional state.
> 
> Women find it hotter to get it on w/ dudes that don't provide for them or have any control over them like their spouses do. (Psych studies back this up) Another one of these hard-to-take truths about the provider. Again -- your clergyman forgot to mention this stuff so long as you provide your donation every Sunday, smile, and keep quiet all is cool. Guys these clergymen don't give a fk about you.


i DO like your explanation of why the OP acted that way.
it is a powerful force. possibly hormonally driven.

but still, it IS a choice she made...1) stay loyal to hubby, or 2) have wild sex (or at least the fantasy of it) and probably not get caught.

all i am saying is that a lot of spouses would always chose 1), even if strongly tempted.


----------



## Rus47

Talker67 said:


> i DO like your explanation of why the OP acted that way.
> it is a powerful force. possibly hormonally driven.
> 
> but still, it IS a choice she made...1) stay loyal to hubby, or 2) have wild sex (or at least the fantasy of it) and probably not get caught.
> 
> all i am saying is that *a lot of spouses would always chose 1), even if strongly tempted.*


I wonder about that. Maybe it is that most spouses don't encounter the circumstances where (2) is a choice. If there are are major problems in the marriage, that provides motivation, the fuel The opportunity has to appear from the workplace, men orbiting in the friend zone, or in this case the internet., an ignition source.


----------



## Talker67

Rus47 said:


> I wonder about that. Maybe it is that most spouses don't encounter the circumstances where (2) is a choice. If there are are major problems in the marriage, that provides motivation, the fuel The opportunity has to appear from the workplace, men orbiting in the friend zone, or in this case the internet., an ignition source.


well, there CAN be outside influences that work in the opposite direction too. a spouse who NEVER would consider 2), ends up at a party and gets drunk, maybe a bachelor or stag party, and everyone around them is drunk, horny, and acting stupidly. some might be socially pushed into 2), or might not hear the alarm bells ringing when given the option of 2)....


----------



## Kaliber

Newgem said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Thank your for being vulnerable and telling your story. I’m so sorry regarding the fertility issues you and your husband had. It can be such a hard thing to go through. It’s been super hard for me bc I like to have control of my life. And not having control of this really brings my mood down and it’s just been hard and sad. My brother And I have a huge gap between us and are not very close, so I always wished for my children to be close in age. Its like I tell myself I want my kids to have a 2 year gap for example, and when it doesn’t happen I rebel. In addition to all that, I wanted things to happen naturally. I don’t want to accelerate that process in anyway.
> 
> I think I too need to change the way I think. Thankfully for your situation, you changed the first time around. For me, this isn’t the first case. And it’s not just one person I speak to.
> 
> How did you create a safe environment for yourself to do all those things? I’m happy you and your husband reconciled and are currently stronger than ever.
> 
> Good point that I reach out to others when in sorrow. I’m also discovering recently that it’s more of a distraction. It’s my way of distracting my mind from thinking about my problems and instead of trying to accept/take action towards it, I’m just allowing whatever happens happen.
> 
> Words must match with actions- I hear it loud and clear.
> 
> The stabbing analogy and what my actions did to my marriage is very eye opening. Im starting to get it. I need it to last though.
> 
> Thank you for your suggestions and introduction.


@Newgem
How’s your husband doing?
Is he still considering separation?
How are you doing with all of this? And what steps are you taking now?


----------



## Newgem

ArthurGPym said:


> But why? See, I think you are non-monogamous, and you are trying to lead a monogamous life. You say you love your husband and yet there is a clear disconnect. You love him yes, a a friend and a co-parent to your kid. That is all.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being non-monogamous in and of itself, nor is there anything wrong (IMO) with being promiscuous. Nothing wrong with these lifestyle choices in and of themselves as long as you don't drag a monogamous person into a lifestyle that is abhorrent to them. Your husband should not be allowing you to drag him behind you as you seek out the next partner of the week.
> 
> My advice is to give your husband a fair divorce with 50% custody of your child, then once the divorce is final, go out and smash random men to your heart's content. Plant your flag and be the vixen you have always wanted to be. Be free. Let your monogamous husband go and find a woman who will truly love and respect him and who doesn't need round-the-clock attention to validate her existence.
> 
> Stop living a lie. Stop trying to have what you are not equipped to have. You were never cut out for monogamous marriage and never will be. If you absolutely have to, find a husband who is into the "lifestyle", swinging and hotwifing, and go that route, then you can have the best of both worlds. You can have the home-life, stability and trappings of a traditional marriage, while getting all the goodbar you can handle on the side with your new husband's consent.


I think the freshness and mystery of each encounter makes it exciting also. 
How can I be unfit for a monogamous relationship if for the past 4 years I have never even thought of other dudes until just recently? I’ve been a caring wife and mother. Plus I was raised with values, morals, family environment. 
What I do know is I like adventure, pushing limits, and being “naughty”. I’m a sexual person in general. I can’t imagine going from my current marriage to a swinger lifestyle. You’re right though, I want the best of both worlds I think. Have my cake and eat it too. It’s selfish.


----------



## Newgem

drencrom said:


> Ok, so brush everything off people are saying to you here and go about your status quo. You won't change unless you are at the brink of really losing your marriage.
> 
> Therapy isn't going to do it unless they also suggest separation. Because you'll be diligent, again, get comfortable, and you'll be back at wanting strange.
> 
> You need to seriously lose what you have in order to know not to get comfortable again.
> 
> Oh, another thing, you "mostly confessed" to everything? You do this in the hopes your husband won't think its that bad in order to avoid separation/divorce.
> 
> In other words as long as you don't face real consequences for your actions, you won't change. I don't care how many times you say you can. You won't as long as you are still lying to him by omission.
> 
> So you're plan is therapy, and getting off social media app(until you get the itch again and get back on them.)


That’s part of the plan, yes. I’m also trying to discover non-destructive ways to fulfill myself when I’m stressed or get the itch to go back on those apps


----------



## Newgem

drencrom said:


> BUT, you'd do it if he was open. This right here tells me you still would like the excitement of other men either getting off to you, or even contacting you or commenting.
> 
> Bottom line, you like the strange, you will always like the strange. Even with the suggestions you were given about sex based website you didn't say, "NO, I don't want that anymore".
> 
> You still want it. You always will.
> 
> So tell your husband everything, not "mostly" everything, and set him free. Even if you never actually hook up with other men in the future, he would be with a woman that craves it and still wants it. I doubt he'd want a wife that, even though the actual cheating stops, still would seriously want it. Because deep down, I know it and you know it, if, lets say, you were away on a trip thousands of miles apart and you were able to hook up with a guy for a night and you'd never see him again and your husband would never find out, you'd to him. Don't say you wouldn't. Your words here, or rather lack of saying you don't want that anymore, tells us that if given the perfect opportunity, you'd scratch that itch.


The sex website all depends. I would never show my face and I’d have to see what it’s all about. It really depends on a lot of factors.
And I have told him everything. When I said “mostly”, I meant the little details I haven’t. Yes pictures were sent, no naked ones by me atleast. Yes we texted/ talked. But I never met up with anyone and that’s the truth. The little details that don’t even matter and I don’t even remember I haven’t said.
And the trip thing, not necessarily. If it’s a one time thing, I would have the power to resist. But if it’s someone I got to know for a bit and if he’s anything like what @manowar described, I would get tempted for sure. But my goal is to not put myself in these types of predicaments, and to find something else to focus on especially when I get in destructive moods.


----------



## Newgem

jsmart said:


> The making out with multiple men, and I’m assuming heavy petting, was back 2017 or is that now. If that making out was in 2017 and this time around, you didn’t meet any of these guys in person, does that mean you never had sex with another man while married?
> 
> Also, have you and your husband been tested for fertility issues to determine exactly why you’re not able to conceive? Low sperm count, unhealthy eggs, uterus shape, etc. if so, you don’t have to tell us the cause, I just want to know if you guys have been medically checked .


Right I have never had sex with someone else while married.
Yes been checked. All looks good. I feel like there’s something else blocking it from happening.


----------



## chazmataz33

Maybe try the 12 steps of AA- 1/ admitted that we were powerless over ?? ??? and that our life had become unmanageable.


----------



## uphillbattle

Newgem said:


> Yeah I know I’ll be old and wrinkly one day. And? That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I can to look my best today. You look good - you feel good. Majority of ppl are too lazy to get off their asses and better themselves. Yet they complain and whine about how they can’t put that third serving of cake down, or how hard it is to wake up a little early to go for a jog, let alone a run.
> 
> I appreciate the life lessons but I’m not a basic beta here. I’ve read millionaire fast lane, thou shall prosper, the war of art, unscripted, and a number of other books and I’ve tried my fair share of failed side hustles. That’s why I’m still doing what I currently do. Which is highly respected btw.
> 
> And I realize things have been instilled in society: primarily for control and manipulation.
> 
> Right. So I’m experiencing morality, and that’s been established. And my biological tendencies are? Do explain. Is it to procreate?
> 
> Yes I know onlyfans, ig, all these apps are causing women to choose to act out in order to feel significant . As though acting out gives them some sense of accomplishment or fulfillment. It’s a new era. Personally I have no IG, fb, etc. I could care less what people post on their highlight reel of life.
> 
> I’m LSE based on my actions on those apps? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and those apps sure might validate but more as mere entertainment.
> 
> Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick? I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist. My issue is what I came on here for. I need an alternate way to handle my stress and need to look internally rather than externally. In addition, I need to channel all the energy I put into the apps and time waste into something productive in my life...
> 
> And the not so nice guy you describe. I have yet to meet him. And given my current situation, I hope I never ****ing do.
> 
> You’re right about one thing - women are never satisfied right? LSE women like ME that is. Am I right?
> 
> Bravo to you for retiring early. Let me guess you have no children and aren’t married. You have a million other women to take chances with, I know. I mentioned above that I know what men want*. I’ll briefly describe it. Someone spiritual, intellectual, intelligent, well spoken, witty, cute, sexual, and sexy AF*. Someone whod have you wrapped around her finger with one look in your eyes. I hope you find her.


You missed one. A very important one. LOALTY. Frankly there isn't enough alcohol in the world to go near someone as dripping with narcissism as you seem to be. Your poor husband.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Newgem said:


> How can I be unfit for a monogamous relationship if for the past 4 years I have never even thought of other dudes until just recently? I’ve been a caring wife and mother. Plus I was raised with values, morals, family environment.


Ok first off you seem to act like this is something to be proud of this is what you are supposed to do. You took vows when you were married saying exactly that. Most married couple do that their entire marriage.



Newgem said:


> Right I have never had sex with someone else while married.


Ok in your opening post you said while you were married to chatted with multiple men online and met up with them. What did you do then when you met up with them? Just talk? Curious to hear this one.
So basically you are saying you want to stay with your husband and child and still do what you are currently doing is that correct? What is to stop you from going to the next step of meeting one of these guys you are talking to online if you think there is a good connection you do that 4 years ago. Also , one last thing I went and read your OP in your thread of 4 years ago (I have not read the whole thread yet) but in the OP you said your husband caught you by checking your phone. However the key thing I was curious about you said you denied everything about the guys. Did you ever tell him the truth? The turth about actually meeting and drinking with 3 men and actually kissing one did you tell your husband all of that? Best of luck! Your husband and family need it I'm afraid.


----------



## Newgem

SunCMars said:


> I attribute 'much' of your behavior to an over-active sexual desire, and some sort of anxiety desire.
> 
> They literally tingle, than tangle up your life.
> 
> Combined, they have become destructive to your marriage.
> 
> This appears to me as (primarily) a blood/brain chemical imbalance that leads you to do harm to your life and marriage.
> 
> It was, and seems, still, this obsession to seek out the attention and that stimulation from men.
> 
> It seems you have this 'other' person in your head, demanding attention and release.
> 
> Did you suffer from _childhood sexual abuse_, (CSA), when young?
> 
> If so, you may have been imprinted, with you desiring to relive those scenes, anew, and in the 'now'.
> I don’t recall any childhood sexual abuse. What you’ve described sounds like me. Will explore
> 
> 
> _King Brian-_


----------



## Newgem

Rus47 said:


> "The making out with multiple men, and I’m assuming heavy petting, was back 2017 or is that now. If that making out was in 2017 and this time around, you didn’t meet any of these guys in person, does that mean you never had sex with another man while"
> 
> I am a little puzzled how a couple can make out without meeting. Maybe the term has changed. I always thought of precursor to and usually progressing to foreplay. I am envisioning OP kising, caressing, etc with multiple other men. And, imagine progressing to everything excepting PIV. She minimizes.


2017 was physical. This time it was not.


----------



## SunCMars

Openminded said:


> I was married to a serial cheater. He wanted to be married but he also wanted the excitement that you get with a shiny new toy. People like him find daily life too boring, too ordinary, too flat without that rush. It’s too much fun for them to let go of. I get it. But marriage unfortunately doesn’t work with that mindset.


That nail, the man which you describe has been struck, dead center, accurate.

Albeit, the man that you describe wanted to be the hammer, not the nail.

Such men, such woman, have no handles, no one can hold them long.


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> Some people greatly over estimate the extent of the power they that they think they have over the opposite sex. Thinking that no man could resist you is clearly crazy.


I disagree.

There are men and woman among us who hold these powers.

Especially those who are famous, are rich, of course, attractive.

That natal, heady mixture of Mars and Venus, add in to the first two, to Neptune, and you will have such power.

No, not powers over everyone, but with (way-more) than do other pretty beings.

Head turners are plentiful, jaw droppers are not.

Of course, you Diana dear, would never look their way.
I know this.


----------



## SunCMars

Newgem said:


> Listen,
> I don’t care what you say. People CAN and do change.


They cannot, so much change what they think, it is the acting-out that is amenable to change.

There is little harm from thoughts that remain thoughts, those that remain a secret.


----------



## chazmataz33

Maybe try the 12 steps of AA- 1/ admitted that we were powerless over ?? ??? and that our life had become unmanageable


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Newgem said:


> 2017 was physical. This time it was not.


Physical what do you mean in your previous post you said only kissing with more and drinks and conversation with the other men. Is that all or was their actually more? Also you said you denied everything in 2017 did you ever tell your husband of the physical in 2017 or does he still not know?


----------



## sideways

[QUOTE="Newgem, post: 
How can I be unfit for a monogamous relationship if for the past 4 years I have never even thought of other dudes until just recently? 
[/QUOTE]

I have a hard time believing this statement.


----------



## uphillbattle

I have a question for you op. Is it possible that you are manic? It would explain a lot.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Okay @Newgem I was finally able to go back and read your entire thread from your post you referred to of 4 years ago and now see you did tell your husband finally about the things you did in person with the other men. After reading that and what you have posted here. A couple of questions: 1) When your husband caught you 4 years ago with your chatting and exchanging pictures, and meeting multiple men. Do you think you (be honest) would have quit back then or could have possibly took it further if your husband had not caught you?
You also mentioned in that thread from 4 years ago it was early December and you said you were writing a letter to your husband and was going to have the polygraph for your husband by the end of that December and that you would post the results of the poly on here, but you never posted in that thread again. Did you write the letter and have the poly? Just curious.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

sideways said:


> [QUOTE="Newgem, post:
> How can I be unfit for a monogamous relationship if for the past 4 years I have never even thought of other dudes until just recently?


I have a hard time believing this statement.
[/QUOTE]

I agree @sideways she seems to think she is a good fit I guess for a monogamous marriage. I guess you take out the two times in 16 years (we really don't know how long the first one went on before being caught or how long on this one either)


----------



## manfromlamancha

How physical was "physical" back in 2017? How far did it go?


----------



## HappilyMarried1

manfromlamancha said:


> How physical was "physical" back in 2017? How far did it go?


She had said in her post when she was caught 4 years ago it was kissing with one guy and another guy fondled her breast. She had said back then she was going to do a polygraph to prove that was all she did with the men she met up with and share the results on here but she never did post again on that thread. So that is what she said.


----------



## Newgem

manowar said:


> Maybe your making some progress after all.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. You get it and see it for what it is. It's a fantasy world as is OLD.
> 
> 
> 
> female nature is biological, not moral. Men often look at cheating by saying something like "how could she do it". He's thinking morality-based. These rules of morality were all invented by men to taper down a woman's nature. They are rules that prescribe how a woman *ought* to behave. Not how they actually are. Female nature is what it is. This is what the clergy should be teaching young guys instead of fairy tales.
> 
> 
> 
> that's what you want to do. *Think*. *Read. Learn*. Why do I do this? Why do I hurt my husband? Maybe the two are linked more than you realize. Some women have this need for attention. Have you lost attraction for your husband? Perhaps this is the real underlying reason why you are on those apps rather than mere entertainment. Is he too nice? Some dudes are actually too nice to their woman.
> 
> BTW. This is why men should stay off of OLD. Women are on there to be entertained. And who entertains. Fools.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!!!
> 
> 
> 
> You called me out. That's fine. I only have to go by what you posted. I don't know you at all so none of this is personal. Just weighing in like others. Figured out that quickly. Just generalities and categories.
> 
> 
> Not so much the apps but this:
> 
> _I talk to multiple different men, and *if I lose interest I cut them off quick and don’t care.* I was *the same way in person *with men when I lived out of state and went out with friends. *Very cold attitude.*
> I think my head has blown up very big over the years._
> 
> This is what jumped out, and is the sort of sh+ty female behavior that men do not merely dislike and accept as part of the game but despise. It indicates a possible dislike of men. Is being cordial so difficult. Or telling the truth. Or avoiding these useless conversations in the first place as HSE do. Like I said HSE women don't do this. They don't treat people this way. Maybe you've grown used to it with so many weak men who will tolerate this crap and you find it amusing.
> 
> I would never treat any woman this way except one who treats me this way. I treat them the way Im treated. Learned that one a long time ago. What goes around comes around. Guys like me we don't forget. We don't play that nice guy game like so many of these Christian guys have been brainwashed. It gets registered in the back of our minds.
> 
> Look into this LSE/HSE stuff. Maybe I'm wrong. Again I don't know you. Basket cases cannot change. Since you are here looking for answers, this indicates you are far from a basket case. Basket cases create drama and sabotage good relationships usually because they don't feel worthy of a healthy normal relationship or a guy who treats them well. You didn't come close to that. Yours is pretty tame really than most of the stories on here. If there are esteem issues (which are very common with all sorts of women including the most beautiful), you can fix it. You think those girls posting 10 pics a day on IG or pics on FB when they were 20 yrs younger are HSE? Maybe some actually making money at it on IG.
> 
> This LSE/HSE issue is probably the single most important reason men screw up in choosing a mate. Id say the majority of cheating women on this site are LSE. Some are so obvious by their insane behavior but the men have no idea what they are dealing with.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you are a seductress. Who knows, anything is possible.


I don’t know if OLD is really that bad. I have 3 friends who have met their current husbands off OLD.
If female nature is biological, are you trying to say all women will cheat? Practically all the women in my life are loyal, family dedicated women, who always put their families before themselves.

I think being with someone for 16 years, and practically growing up with them you get used to it/comfortable. Have I lost attraction? Maybe. He was a “bad boy” when I first met him and now he’s a super nice guy. Maybe I’m attracted to the “bad”. I just want variety and excitement in my life and I need to find other ways to get it.

You are right. I need to learn to be cordial. I think I might have grown used to it. You seem to read me well - except the part of figuring me out in 10 minutes. I think I took it personal bc I’ve gotten that a lot. Judging the outside and thinking I’m a low intellect.

I’ve been looking into LSE/hse. I thought all the girls posting on IG do it for money? If not, what the point of putting yourself out there like that?

When you bring up Christian men, are you talking about those who are very religious?

And no. No seductress. It’ll be natural


----------



## Newgem

Rus47 said:


> Newgem, have you found someone to counsel you about addictive behavior? Have you met with them to develop a treatment plan? Have you found a group of women with similar attention-seeking problems?
> 
> Writing on an anonymous internet forum wont get you where you say you want to go with your life. I believe you recognize that spending time online attracting male attention will only escalate, as the ego kibbles needed to satisfy require more degrading behavior. Like maybe start dancing in a club, or begin posting nude photos/movies online. There is no limit, just like a drug addict doesn't stop with one hit. If your husband separates from you, which believe you said was his stated intention, the anchor and restraining influence you now have will disappear. You will be free to destroy your life without limitation.
> 
> You have wasted at least four years and maybe a marriage by thinking you could tame the beast by willpower. No guarantee that therapy will cure you either, but absent a real heart change it is the only chance you have.


I did have a virtual consult with an addiction therapist just to discuss my concerns, my goals, some reasoning behind my actions.We did a quick treatment plant but I have another appt this week. How do I find women with similar “attention seeking“ problems ?


----------



## Newgem

drencrom said:


> True. But most people do so to feel good about themselves. You do it for that AND to attract the attention of other men.
> 
> 
> 
> That perhaps is true, and also your problem. You are a narcissist. Conceited. Take a guy like me, you might be right because I'm single.
> 
> But make no mistake, if I am in a loving relationship and I was at a bar with some friends having a drink and you came up trying to be the seductress, I don't care what you look like, yes, resist comes all too easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there you have it folks. Instead of showing a little humility, she comes here gets all defensive and ignores the facts about her spouting the meaningless words about "people can change"
> 
> I think we need not waste any more of our time on @Newgem here.
> She is abusing her husband, will continue to abuse him, will never get past her need for validation and taboo cheating. Only way you'll ever be happy is if your husband can turn into someone different each week.
> 
> So, everyone, time to cut her loose. She's a lost cause.


You’re right I do maintain it to attract men also. I have no issues admitting that.
My seductive reply was my way of responding to a dig at my intelligence. I thought this was more than apparent.

I’m not a lost cause, I’ve read everyone’s responses and I’m taking action to better myself.

btw, I don’t approach men.


----------



## Newgem

drencrom said:


> True. But most people do so to feel good about themselves. You do it for that AND to attract the attention of other men.
> 
> 
> 
> That perhaps is true, and also your problem. You are a narcissist. Conceited. Take a guy like me, you might be right because I'm single.
> 
> But make no mistake, if I am in a loving relationship and I was at a bar with some friends having a drink and you came up trying to be the seductress, I don't care what you look like, yes, resist comes all too easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there you have it folks. Instead of showing a little humility, she comes here gets all defensive and ignores the facts about her spouting the meaningless words about "people can change"
> 
> I think we need not waste any more of our time on @Newgem here.
> She is abusing her husband, will continue to abuse him, will never get past her need for validation and taboo cheating. Only way you'll ever be happy is if your husband can turn into someone different each week.
> 
> So, everyone, time to cut her loose. She's a lost cause.





Cynthia said:


> This really stinks. She comes here for help and she gets told that she's a hopeless case. There is such a thing as redemption. I've seen people change and believe it is possible.


Thank you for that. I believe it’s possible also.


----------



## Newgem

Luckylucky said:


> How’s your husband doing


My husband and I are no longer living together. I’m staying with my folks until he figures things out. I do see him everyday due to our son. I’m hoping he’ll let me back to our place so we can figure this whole thing out.


----------



## Newgem

EdDean said:


> I don’t disagree necessarily but people with addictive behavioral issues often have a lot of false starts and stops before success. So her past and current failures don’t necessarily predict her future. So I think there’s always hope.
> 
> Unfortunately what she’s asking her husband to do is take tremendous leap of faith that she’ll keep trying and eventually succeed. That’s a pretty big ask.


Yes there is always hope! Thank you


----------



## Newgem

Kaliber said:


> @Newgem
> How’s your husband doing?
> Is he still considering separation?
> How are you doing with all of this? And what steps are you taking now?


We are no longer living together. He needs some time to sort things out.
I spoke to a addiction therapist. A lot of the responses on here are helping actually.


----------



## Newgem

chazmataz33 said:


> Maybe try the 12 steps of AA- 1/ admitted that we were powerless over ?? ??? and that our life had become unmanageable.


I’ll give it a shot


----------



## Newgem

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Okay @Newgem I was finally able to go back and read your entire thread from your post you referred to of 4 years ago and now see you did tell your husband finally about the things you did in person with the other men. After reading that and what you have posted here. A couple of questions: 1) When your husband caught you 4 years ago with your chatting and exchanging pictures, and meeting multiple men. Do you think you (be honest) would have quit back then or could have possibly took it further if your husband had not caught you?
> You also mentioned in that thread from 4 years ago it was early December and you said you were writing a letter to your husband and was going to have the polygraph for your husband by the end of that December and that you would post the results of the poly on here, but you never posted in that thread again. Did you write the letter and have the poly? Just curious.


I would have definitely taken it further if I didn’t get caught. Its like a drug. I did write the letter but didn’t do the poly bc my husband ended up forgiving me. He didn’t mind not having the poly, I left it up to him


----------



## TXTrini

Newgem said:


> I did have a virtual consult with an addiction therapist just to discuss my concerns, my goals, some reasoning behind my actions.We did a quick treatment plant but I have another appt this week. How do I find women with similar “attention seeking“ problems ?


Go check out Cici's thread. I don't think I can link it since it's in the Private Members section.


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> I did have a virtual consult with an addiction therapist just to discuss my concerns, my goals, some reasoning behind my actions.We did a quick treatment plant but I have another appt this week. How do I find women with similar “attention seeking“ problems ?


Wouldn't most addiction therapists have suggestion of groups of females with similar issues? An internet search for "locating a sex addiction group therapy for women" and got a bunch of hits. Ask your therapist if that is part of treatment plan they recommend. Maybe your therapist doesn't believe group therapy adds treatment value.

My thoughts were that since professional therapists can be expensive, if you can find a small group of women with issues like yours who are also seeking to recover, you can dialogue with them more frequently and at a lower cost.

Is there a legal separation agreement in place? Do you both have attorneys? Do you work? If not, it might be good to spend some time finding employment, for your and your husband's benefit.


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> I would have definitely taken it further if I didn’t get caught. Its like a drug. I did write the letter but didn’t do the poly bc my husband ended up forgiving me. He didn’t mind not having the poly, I left it up to him


At least you aren't in denial, and don't seem to be a blame shifter either. Knowing and accepting you have a problem is the first important step a lot of wayward people never take.


----------



## Quad73

Newgem said:


> You’re right I do maintain it to attract men also. I have no issues admitting that.
> My seductive reply was my way of responding to a dig at my intelligence. I thought this was more than apparent.
> 
> I’m not a lost cause, I’ve read everyone’s responses and I’m taking action to better myself.
> 
> btw, I don’t approach men.


Newgem, can you tell us what the differences are for you between:

"I don't approach men"

and

Actively getting on OLD to interact with men?

To me, creating the account is basically approaching many many many men and saying, hi I'm available. 

Does the subtly of them responding to that invitation by pinging you actually justify this difference for you, ie you can tell yourself you don't approach men. 

Maybe there's something you're telling yourself that would sound differently once you think about and it and write about it.

I know this is a side issue, but it may be a revealing part of what makes you do what you do.


----------



## drencrom

Newgem said:


> The sex website all depends. I would never show my face and I’d have to see what it’s all about. It really depends on a lot of factors.
> And I have told him everything. When I said “mostly”, I meant the little details I haven’t. Yes pictures were sent, no naked ones by me atleast. Yes we texted/ talked. But I never met up with anyone and that’s the truth. The little details that don’t even matter and I don’t even remember I haven’t said.
> And the trip thing, not necessarily. If it’s a one time thing, I would have the power to resist. But if it’s someone I got to know for a bit and if he’s anything like what @manowar described, I would get tempted for sure. But my goal is to not put myself in these types of predicaments, and to find something else to focus on especially when I get in destructive moods.


God, stop, just STOP!!

Set your husband free.


----------



## As'laDain

@Newgem,

Is it possible that you might have bipolar disorder? The reason i ask is because my wife used to do a lot of the same thing whenever she was manic. She often lied about petty small things, often for no reason at all. Eventually, we found out that she has bipolar disorder, she got on proper medication, and she hasn't done anything like that in years. 

One of the things that strikes me is that my wife used to ask herself that same question Everytime I caught her doing it... "Why do I keep doing this? What the **** is wrong with me?"

She went to therapy early on and they gave her anti anxiety meds and antidepressants, which just made the bipolar symptoms worse.

Also, she was only able to have one child as well. After she had our daughter, she had an endless string of miscarriages until she got a hysterectomy in 2018.


----------



## Newgem

Rus47 said:


> Wouldn't most addiction therapists have suggestion of groups of females with similar issues? An internet search for "locating a sex addiction group therapy for women" and got a bunch of hits. Ask your therapist if that is part of treatment plan they recommend. Maybe your therapist doesn't believe group therapy adds treatment value.
> 
> My thoughts were that since professional therapists can be expensive, if you can find a small group of women with issues like yours who are also seeking to recover, you can dialogue with them more frequently and at a lower cost.
> 
> Is there a legal separation agreement in place? Do you both have attorneys? Do you work? If not, it might be good to spend some time finding employment, for your and your husband's benefit.


Not yet. I have a feeling he’s going to give me one last chance. We’ve been texting/talking ever since it happened. I do work. Thank you for your suggestion on finding and connecting with women like me


----------



## Newgem

Quad73 said:


> Newgem, can you tell us what the differences are for you between:
> 
> "I don't approach men"
> 
> and
> 
> Actively getting on OLD to interact with men?
> 
> To me, creating the account is basically approaching many many many men and saying, hi I'm available.
> 
> Does the subtly of them responding to that invitation by pinging you actually justify this difference for you, ie you can tell yourself you don't approach men.
> 
> Maybe there's something you're telling yourself that would sound differently once you think about and it and write about it.
> 
> I know this is a side issue, but it may be a revealing part of what makes you do what you do.


I meant in person I don’t approach men. Online I’m not the initiator or the one who messages first. But as you said- just creating the profile is giving out the message that “I’m available”.


----------



## Newgem

As'laDain said:


> @Newgem,
> 
> Is it possible that you might have bipolar disorder? The reason i ask is because my wife used to do a lot of the same thing whenever she was manic. She often lied about petty small things, often for no reason at all. Eventually, we found out that she has bipolar disorder, she got on proper medication, and she hasn't done anything like that in years.
> 
> One of the things that strikes me is that my wife used to ask herself that same question Everytime I caught her doing it... "Why do I keep doing this? What the **** is wrong with me?"
> 
> She went to therapy early on and they gave her anti anxiety meds and antidepressants, which just made the bipolar symptoms worse.
> 
> Also, she was only able to have one child as well. After she had our daughter, she had an endless string of miscarriages until she got a hysterectomy in 2018.


hmmm I’ve never even thought of that or been evaluated lol. Do you mind telling me what medication she takes for that that’s helped her? I know it’s confidential, maybe thru private message?


----------



## Rus47

Newgem said:


> Not yet. I have a feeling he’s going to give me one last chance. We’ve been texting/talking ever since it happened. I do work. Thank you for your suggestion on finding and *connecting with women like me*


Try to find a facilitated group of women desiring to recover from addiction to attention seeking/validation using their sexuality. My wife and I have known many young women with this problem, most being extended family. I wonder if it doesn't have a beginning during formative years. If only positive strokes a young girl receives is by flaunting her sexuality, she learns to use what she perceives as the most powerful tools at her disposal to get personal validation.


----------



## As'laDain

Newgem said:


> hmmm I’ve never even thought of that or been evaluated lol. Do you mind telling me what medication she takes for that that’s helped her? I know it’s confidential, maybe thru private message?


Honestly, i don't even know the names of them all lol. She takes several different medications and they change from time to time depending on how she is doing.


----------



## Diana7

SunCMars said:


> I disagree.
> 
> There are men and woman among us who hold these powers.
> 
> Especially those who are famous, are rich, of course, attractive.
> 
> That natal, heady mixture of Mars and Venus, add in to the first two, to Neptune, and you will have such power.
> 
> No, not powers over everyone, but with (way-more) than do other pretty beings.
> 
> Head turners are plentiful, jaw droppers are not.
> 
> Of course, you Diana dear, would never look their way.
> I know this.


Riches and fame hold no appeal for me thankfully.


----------



## gr8ful1

@Newgem any update?


----------



## drencrom

gr8ful1 said:


> @Newgem any update?


My guess, nothing has changed, she will keep abusing her husband and looking for validation and attention from other men. 

As I said, she's a lost cause.


----------



## ElOtro

drencrom said:


> My guess, nothing has changed, she will keep abusing her husband and looking for validation and attention from other men.


I hope you are wrong but I suspect you are right.


----------



## jonty30

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


You're probably in need of explicit love and attention and your husband is the sacrificial stoic person. Since you're not being fed in the way that you need to, you're hungry for your need for attention. 

In my opinion, he should step up and show you that demonstrative love that you desire.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sounds like you have an exhibition fetish. You're probably one of those gals who would like to make eye contact with a cute guy at Wal Mart, while wearing no panties, and as soon as the row you and he hare in is clear of people, lift up your skirt. 

And it sounds like you are not monogamous. Why would you want to be in a monogamous marriage?


----------



## Newgem

gr8ful1 said:


> @Newgem any update?


I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting and analyzing of my actions. Honestly I deleted everything when I said I did and I haven’t downloaded anything since then. I’ve been very good and focused on bettering myself and trying to show my husband I deserve one last chance. And focused on being a better mother.

i keep myself very busy. But I do have days where thoughts creep in, memories come up, but I try not to focus on it and let it pass. I’m channeling my energy into being a productive person rather than doing a time waste with other men.

im not a lost cause


----------



## Newgem

jonty30 said:


> You're probably in need of explicit love and attention and your husband is the sacrificial stoic person. Since you're not being fed in the way that you need to, you're hungry for your need for attention.
> 
> In my opinion, he should step up and show you that demonstrative love that you desire.


Is that so? Describe how he would do that


----------



## jonty30

Newgem said:


> Is that so? Describe how he would do that


Give a hug and pick her off her feet.
Say the words, "I missed you" "or I love you"
Bring small gifts, especially the kinds of gifts that she has mentioned that she'd llike
Stuff like that.

Stoic men are sacrificers. They are great to have around for stage 4 cancer, because they will take care of everything, including washing her bed sores. They just have some trouble being expressive and demonstrative. Their feelings runs deep, but the feelings are not always detectable.


----------



## Newgem

ArthurGPym said:


> Sounds like you have an exhibition fetish. You're probably one of those gals who would like to make eye contact with a cute guy at Wal Mart, while wearing no panties, and as soon as the row you and he hare in is clear of people, lift up your skirt.
> 
> And it sounds like you are not monogamous. Why would you want to be in a monogamous marriage?


Sure the no panties thing is kinda hot but I do like being discreet. And what does that even matter? I’m focusing on bettering myself as a person.

If I choose to be monogamous, I can be.

Listen, don’t you all know this story?——

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.

"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued,

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
—————

Im trying to feed the loving and loyal side everyday. I know I can do it and stay focused on what really matters.


----------



## Newgem

jonty30 said:


> Give a hug and pick her off her feet.
> Say the words, "I missed you" "or I love you"
> Bring small gifts, especially the kinds of gifts that she has mentioned that she'd llike
> Stuff like that.
> 
> Stoic men are sacrificers. They are great to have around for stage 4 cancer, because they will take care of everything, including washing her bed sores. They just have some trouble being expressive and demonstrative. Their feelings runs deep, but the feelings are not always detectable.


I see. You are partially right maybe. I need to think about his actions some more. He’s actually the one who says I’m not the expressive one and don’t say “I miss you” or physically show love. I probably should.
Oh and I like aggression and dominance. I don’t know how that ties in but thought I’d put that out there.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Newgem said:


> Sure the no panties thing is kinda hot but I do like being discreet. And what does that even matter? I’m focusing on bettering myself as a person.
> 
> If I choose to be monogamous, I can be.
> 
> Listen, don’t you all know this story?——
> 
> An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
> 
> "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued,
> 
> "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
> 
> The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
> 
> The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
> —————
> 
> Im trying to feed the loving and loyal side everyday. I know I can do it and stay focused on what really matters.



There is another native American parable about the scorpion and the fox. 

A fox comes to a river and is about to swim across when a scorpion on the ground calls up to him and asks the fox to carry him across the river. At first the fox refuses saying "No, for you will surely sting me!" The scorpion tells the fox " I will not sting you, because if I were to do so we would both surely drown." 

So, the fox being generous and affable, allows the scorpion onto his back and he climbs into the river and begins to swim across. Just as the fox gets to the deepest and swiftest part of the river, a wave of water splashes over them and in a panic the scorpion stings the fox. The fox immediately starts to go numb, and as they are both sinking to their death the fox cries out to the scorpion "You promised you would not sting me!" The scorpion simply replied "I know. But you knew I was a scorpion when you took me onto your back. It is my nature to sting."

Your nature OP, is to repetitively cheat on the man who loves you. You have proven that to him time and again.


----------



## ArthurGPym

deleted


----------



## ArthurGPym

Newgem said:


> Oh and I like aggression and dominance. I don’t know how that ties in but thought I’d put that out there.


And your husband is most likely possessing of neither of those.  So you use him for comfort and stability while you search for a Dom on the web. 

And please stop insulting our intelligence by pressing that these infidelities were online only. You know and we know that if you had the opportunity to meet one of those men close by, you would have made some excuse to your husband and gone out to jump in the sack with that man as fast as possible, without a second thought.


----------



## Talker67

Newgem said:


> hmmm I’ve never even thought of that or been evaluated lol. Do you mind telling me what medication she takes for that that’s helped her? I know it’s confidential, maybe thru private message?


it would be pretty easy to find a doctor to evaluate you. if it is a mental chemical imbalance, you might be one easy pill away from answering that question about why you keep doing it!


----------



## Talker67

Newgem said:


> Oh and I like aggression and dominance. I don’t know how that ties in but thought I’d put that out there.


in which way?
do you want your husband to dominate you and you to submit to him? or the other way around?

if you crave your husband to be the dom, and he does not, often that gives the submissive a sense of "permission" to go find another person (either man OR woman) to be their dom. but since that is cheating on the marriage, and you really do not have permission to do that, eventually that sort of cheating shows up in all aspects of the marriage you are trying to preserve. You may be driven to the thrill of being dominated by someone, but trying to walk that fine line between obedience to your dom, and being faithful to your spouse, simply will not work out.

unless you can get your spouse to agree to let you be "married, but owned by another", you had better put a cork into that particular bottle of sexual emotion!
either that, or allow your hubby to be your dom.

we don't know you well enough, but one thought about the possible *bipolar.*..maybe you want vanilla sex one day, and next you crave dominance and submission in your life, then next day it is back to vanilla? hmmmm


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Newgem said:


> hmmm I’ve never even thought of that or been evaluated lol. Do you mind telling me what medication she takes for that that’s helped her? I know it’s confidential, maybe thru private message?


there are several, popular ones are Lamictal, but more modern ones with less sides like Abilify.... of course they come w side effects, including motor disorders, diabetes risk and weight gain.
But before all this you need to be properly and officially diagnosed by a pshycologist, and that alone can be very tricky, as there are different types of bipolar....

plus you would exhibit these behaviors in other ways, not just in wanting attention from other men. 

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


----------



## Newgem

ArthurGPym said:


> And your husband is most likely possessing of neither of those. So you use him for comfort and stability while you search for a Dom on the web.
> 
> And please stop insulting our intelligence by pressing that these infidelities were online only. You know and we know that if you had the opportunity to meet one of those men close by, you would have made some excuse to your husband and gone out to jump in the sack with that man as fast as possible, without a second thought.


My husband does possess those traits actually. When I say dominant I don’t necessarily mean some freakish stuff in the bedroom. It’s a type of personality/vibe. That being said, it’s obvious I’m searching and imagining someone/something that probably doesn’t even exist. That’s why I would talk to multiple ppl at the same time. It’s the rush of something new/exciting. That’s it. I’m mature enough to know what it is and why I did it. I’m mentally strong enough to not let my thoughts go that way and cause me to repeat my mistakes.

You say it’s my nature? So if an addicts nature is to do drugs- will they always be an addict? Do you give up on someone bc of that? No. There are people who change. And I know I can change. 

The stuff that happened a few months ago was all online. A few years back it did get physical. I’m not denying that. It never went to sex though.


----------



## Newgem

Talker67 said:


> in which way?
> do you want your husband to dominate you and you to submit to him? or the other way around?
> 
> if you crave your husband to be the dom, and he does not, often that gives the submissive a sense of "permission" to go find another person (either man OR woman) to be their dom. but since that is cheating on the marriage, and you really do not have permission to do that, eventually that sort of cheating shows up in all aspects of the marriage you are trying to preserve. You may be driven to the thrill of being dominated by someone, but trying to walk that fine line between obedience to your dom, and being faithful to your spouse, simply will not work out.
> 
> unless you can get your spouse to agree to let you be "married, but owned by another", you had better put a cork into that particular bottle of sexual emotion!
> either that, or allow your hubby to be your dom.
> 
> we don't know you well enough, but one thought about the possible *bipolar.*..maybe you want vanilla sex one day, and next you crave dominance and submission in your life, then next day it is back to vanilla? hmmmm


im not necessarily saying in the bedroom. Its a whole package type of thing I’m referring to- I can’t explain it.
Thrill seeking is definitely in my nature - and believe me, I’m not bipolar lol.
I know exactly what it is. It’s the mystery, challenge, excitement of meeting new people and talking to (in the past meeting with) multiple men. I do like the variety sexually. Playing different roles.
The point is- I know why I do what I did, and what steps I need to take to never ever go down that path again.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Newgem said:


> My husband does possess those traits actually. When I say dominant I don’t necessarily mean some freakish stuff in the bedroom. It’s a type of personality/vibe. That being said, it’s obvious I’m searching and imagining someone/something that probably doesn’t even exist. That’s why I would talk to multiple ppl at the same time. It’s the rush of something new/exciting. That’s it. I’m mature enough to know what it is and why I did it. I’m mentally strong enough to not let my thoughts go that way and cause me to repeat my mistakes.
> 
> You say it’s my nature? So if an addicts nature is to do drugs- will they always be an addict? Do you give up on someone bc of that? No. There are people who change. And I know I can change.
> 
> The stuff that happened a few months ago was all online. A few years back it did get physical. I’m not denying that. It never went to sex though.


At some point you may give up on an addict, when their constant falling off the wagon just becomes too much of an emotional and psychological burden. About 50% of addicts relapse and it wouldn't surprise me if cheaters are the same, maybe worse. It can be engrained in who they are and it will always be a life long struggle with the constant concern of relapse. Imagine the weight of that on the shoulders of you husband. Knowing there is probably a 50/50 shot of you cheating today and then he relives that every single day of his life. That is what you are putting him through.


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> *At some point you may give up on an addict, when their constant falling off the wagon just becomes too much of an emotional and psychological burden.* About 50% of addicts relapse and it wouldn't surprise me if cheaters are the same, maybe worse. It can be engrained in who they are and it will always be a life long struggle with the constant concern of relapse. Imagine the weight of that on the shoulders of you husband. Knowing there is probably a 50/50 shot of you cheating today and then he relives that every single day of his life. That is what you are putting him through.


IMO an addict has to "hit the wall" to have any chance to permanently reform. So "giving up" on them early is probably the best thing for them. Continuing to sympathize and empathize just enables their continued addiction. If the 50% is considered as chance of each relapse, the ultimate chance of overcoming for a lifetime becomes miniscule.


----------



## Talker67

Newgem said:


> im not necessarily saying in the bedroom. Its a whole package type of thing I’m referring to- I can’t explain it.
> Thrill seeking is definitely in my nature - and believe me, I’m not bipolar lol.
> I know exactly what it is. It’s the mystery, challenge, excitement of meeting new people and talking to (in the past meeting with) multiple men. I do like the variety sexually. Playing different roles.
> The point is- I know why I do what I did, and what steps I need to take to never ever go down that path again.


but you can get a big thrill by just having sex with your husband in unusual places. at the theater, in a restaurant, in a changing room at the shopping mall, in front of others are a resort like Hedonism II.....
you do not HAVE TO find another man for that thrill.
and there are certainly various sexual acts you and your husband can partake of that are very much out there, and will give one or both of you a naughty thrill. How about anal sex, either him doing you, or you doing him with a strap-on?


----------



## Talker67

there definitely IS a thing called "married, but owned by another". to be ethical, you would need your husband's permission. but you could experiment being a submissive to a male or female dom. Or you could find a male or female submissive, put on leathers, stiletto heels, get a riding crop, and yourself be the dominant.

for something like that to work, your hubby would have to give permission, AND be so vanilla sexed that he would not want to be involved.


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## Newgem

BigDaddyNY said:


> At some point you may give up on an addict, when their constant falling off the wagon just becomes too much of an emotional and psychological burden. About 50% of addicts relapse and it wouldn't surprise me if cheaters are the same, maybe worse. It can be engrained in who they are and it will always be a life long struggle with the constant concern of relapse. Imagine the weight of that on the shoulders of you husband. Knowing there is probably a 50/50 shot of you cheating today and then he relives that every single day of his life. That is what you are putting him through.


I realize that it’s very unfair to my husband. But ultimately it is his decision. I will do what I can and hope we don’t break up our family, but it’s up to him to decide. And it’s not 50/50 in my eyes


----------



## Newgem

Talker67 said:


> but you can get a big thrill by just having sex with your husband in unusual places. at the theater, in a restaurant, in a changing room at the shopping mall, in front of others are a resort like Hedonism II.....
> you do not HAVE TO find another man for that thrill.
> and there are certainly various sexual acts you and your husband can partake of that are very much out there, and will give one or both of you a naughty thrill. How about anal sex, either him doing you, or you doing him with a strap-on?


I understand all of this. I know I do not have to find other men. I’m sure all of that can be a thrill. I know myself though- I enjoy meeting new men and the variety of it. I’m really picky too. 
As far as me doing him with a strap on - lmaoooo. That would never happen. I’m not into men that are into that. Nothing wrong with doing that. It’s just not my style.
I know myself. Having sex in forbidden places won’t fulfill it.


----------



## Newgem

Talker67 said:


> there definitely IS a thing called "married, but owned by another". to be ethical, you would need your husband's permission. but you could experiment being a submissive to a male or female dom. Or you could find a male or female submissive, put on leathers, stiletto heels, get a riding crop, and yourself be the dominant.
> 
> for something like that to work, your hubby would have to give permission, AND be so vanilla sexed that he would not want to be involved.


my husband would never in a billion years be into something like that. And in all honesty, I’m really trying to hold myself up to certain standards and don’t even want to think about doing anything of that nature.

I feel like most of you think me seeking other men is only for the sexual. It was not. There had to be a mental pull. A whole package type of thing. I think this is why I’d talk to many different ppl. Bc each person provided certain good qualities. I’m over it though. I’m focused on what matters whether you all believe itor not


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## ABHale

Newgem said:


> I do love him as a person. I don’t want to lose my marriage. I think since it’s been 16 years things change, get dry, but I honestly love him a lot.


Things change and get dry because YOU allowed it to get that way.

Were you like this before meeting your doormat of a husband? 

Was he ever able to satisfy you in bed?

Was your husband like the guys you dated or the complete opposite?


----------



## ABHale

Newgem said:


> Listen,
> I don’t care what you say. People CAN and do change.


So why didn’t you the first time? Hard to teach a old dog new tricks.


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## Blondilocks

Newgem said:


> But if it’s someone I got to know for a bit and if he’s anything like what @manowar described, I would get tempted for sure. *But my goal is to not put myself in these types of predicaments, *and to find something else to focus on especially when I get in destructive moods.





Newgem said:


> I meant in person I don’t approach men. *Online I’m not the initiator or the one who messages first. *But as you said- just creating the profile is giving out the message that “I’m available”.


Then there is this:


Newgem said:


> hmmm I’ve never even thought of that or been evaluated lol. Do you mind telling me what medication she takes for that that’s helped her? I know it’s confidential, *maybe thru private message?*


See what you're doing here?


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## ABHale

Newgem said:


> Yeah I know I’ll be old and wrinkly one day. And? That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I can to look my best today. You look good - you feel good. Majority of ppl are too lazy to get off their asses and better themselves. Yet they complain and whine about how they can’t put that third serving of cake down, or how hard it is to wake up a little early to go for a jog, let alone a run.
> 
> I appreciate the life lessons but I’m not a basic beta here. I’ve read millionaire fast lane, thou shall prosper, the war of art, unscripted, and a number of other books and I’ve tried my fair share of failed side hustles. That’s why I’m still doing what I currently do. Which is highly respected btw.
> 
> And I realize things have been instilled in society: primarily for control and manipulation.
> 
> Right. So I’m experiencing morality, and that’s been established. And my biological tendencies are? Do explain. Is it to procreate?
> 
> Yes I know onlyfans, ig, all these apps are causing women to choose to act out in order to feel significant . As though acting out gives them some sense of accomplishment or fulfillment. It’s a new era. Personally I have no IG, fb, etc. I could care less what people post on their highlight reel of life.
> 
> I’m LSE based on my actions on those apps? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and those apps sure might validate but more as mere entertainment.
> 
> Oh and you... you talk a big game. You’d have me figured out that quick? I’d have you wrapped around my finger with one deep look in your eyes. I know what men want and can’t resist. My issue is what I came on here for. I need an alternate way to handle my stress and need to look internally rather than externally. In addition, I need to channel all the energy I put into the apps and time waste into something productive in my life...
> 
> And the not so nice guy you describe. I have yet to meet him. And given my current situation, I hope I never ****ing do.
> 
> You’re right about one thing - women are never satisfied right? LSE women like ME that is. Am I right?
> 
> Bravo to you for retiring early. Let me guess you have no children and aren’t married. You have a million other women to take chances with, I know. I mentioned above that I know what men want. I’ll briefly describe it. Someone spiritual, intellectual, intelligent, well spoken, witty, cute, sexual, and sexy AF. Someone whod have you wrapped around her finger with one look in your eyes. I hope you find her.


Your saying you want to change then write this?

That would be the day.


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## ABHale

Newgem said:


> I think the freshness and mystery of each encounter makes it exciting also.
> How can I be unfit for a monogamous relationship if for the past 4 years I have never even thought of other dudes until just recently? I’ve been a caring wife and mother. Plus I was raised with values, morals, family environment.
> What I do know is I like adventure, pushing limits, and being “naughty”. I’m a sexual person in general. I can’t imagine going from my current marriage to a swinger lifestyle. You’re right though, I want the best of both worlds I think. Have my cake and eat it too. It’s selfish.


Being raised with and believing in something is completely different. Just like preacher’s kids, they are either great Christians or hell bent on shedding off any vestige of their parents beliefs

You have no morals or integrity. Your character is defined by your actions. By your actions, you will never be a safe partner in life for your husband.


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## ltsandwich

Therapy. You need therapy and you NEEDED to be open with your husband before things became like this again. You didn't trust him to help you through this and now you're paying the price. I am saying this excluding your past, which is further proof you had a reliable and sympathetic husband.

Now you may end up having all the men you want but not that man you need because you weren't honest about your issues. We all have hang-ups, but need to know when to tell people we love we need help to not hurt them with self destruction.

No matter what happens, seek out therapy. You will always sabatoge yourself and hurt people, including kids, with your behavior and coping mechanisms.

My mom was an avid cheater on my dad and I still hate her to this day.


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## ABHale

Newgem said:


> I realize that it’s very unfair to my husband. But ultimately it is his decision. I will do what I can and hope we don’t break up our family, but it’s up to him to decide. And it’s not 50/50 in my eyes


If he leaves you for betraying him like you have, it is only you that has broken up your family. Your husband’s actions are the aftermath of your destructive nature. Just like many drug addicts or alcoholics have broken up their families.

It isn’t your husband’s fault if the only thing left for him is to leave you. You did this, not him.


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## Talker67

Newgem said:


> my husband would never in a billion years be into something like that. And in all honesty, I’m really trying to hold myself up to certain standards and don’t even want to think about doing anything of that nature.
> 
> I feel like most of you think me seeking other men is only for the sexual. It was not. *There had to be a mental pull.* A whole package type of thing. I think this is why I’d talk to many different ppl. Bc each person provided certain good qualities. I’m over it though. I’m focused on what matters whether you all believe itor not


a dom/sub relationship is not necessarily sexual, but def is a mental exchange.
there are plenty of BDSM acts that you do fully clothed, for instance--the more lifestyle kinks.

i am having a hard time figuring out, long distance, just what sort of thing WILL turn you on and give you that sexual thrill that you seek. But i would recommend you talk this all over with your husband, and try to get a hall pass for what you do try. If you involve him, he might be able to help--either by kicking up his own game, or even helping you explore new things. It might not be enthusiastic support, but at least he will know what is going on, and it might save your marriage.

and whatever you do do, do not punish hubby with reduced sex. keep him fully satisfied as you experiment.


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## Dictum Veritas

Talker67 said:


> a dom/sub relationship is not necessarily sexual, but def is a mental exchange.
> there are plenty of BDSM acts that you do fully clothed, for instance--the more lifestyle kinks.
> 
> i am having a hard time figuring out, long distance, just what sort of thing WILL turn you on and give you that sexual thrill that you seek. But i would recommend you talk this all over with your husband, and try to get a hall pass for what you do try. If you involve him, he might be able to help--either by kicking up his own game, or even helping you explore new things. It might not be enthusiastic support, but at least he will know what is going on, and it might save your marriage.
> 
> and whatever you do do, do not punish hubby with reduced sex. keep him fully satisfied as you experiment.


Yeah, most men would kind of check out of a relationship where his wife is submissive to another man and take orders from him which can even include not to be intimate with her own husband and kick that wife to the curb. I personally would not stand for such a relationship or any sort of relationship where another man is required for any reason.

Once your wife craves the attention of another man I think it's natures way to tell a man that it's time for an upgrade, time to trade in the old defective one for a newer, shinier model, especially if she's a repeat offender.


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## Talker67

Dictum Veritas said:


> Yeah, most men would kind of check out of a relationship where his wife is submissive to another man and take orders from him which can even include not to be intimate with her own husband and kick that wife to the curb. I personally would not stand for such a relationship or any sort of relationship where another man is required for any reason.
> 
> Once your wife craves the attention of another man I think it's natures way to tell a man that it's time for an upgrade, time to trade in the old defective one for a newer, shinier model, especially if she's a repeat offender.


of course, we probably all would.

but i bet there is a solid 5%, maybe 10%, that would go along with it. they would not care, be so beta they are talked into it, actually enjoy it as a kink, or want to stray themselves to support the wife to go out and get some nasty. Sex is hard physical work, and some guys are just lazy


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## Dictum Veritas

Talker67 said:


> of course, we probably all would.
> 
> but i bet there is a solid 5%, maybe 10%, that would go along with it. they would not care, be so beta they are talked into it, actually enjoy it as a kink, or want to stray themselves to support the wife to go out and get some nasty. Sex is hard physical work, and some guys are just lazy


Let's just put it this way, those 5% or 10% tops of men would definitely be laughed out of my friend group and I believe the friend groups of most men (at least 90% to 95% of men that is then).


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## Talker67

Dictum Veritas said:


> Let's just put it this way, those 5% or 10% tops of men *would definitely be laughed out of my friend group* and I believe the friend groups of most men (at least 90% to 95% of men that is then).


unless he was offering you his wife's services!


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## Newgem

ABHale said:


> Things change and get dry because YOU allowed it to get that way.
> 
> Were you like this before meeting your doormat of a husband?
> 
> Was he ever able to satisfy you in bed?
> 
> Was your husband like the guys you dated or the complete opposite?


I met my husband over 16 years ago when I was 19/20 and no I wasn’t like this. Ofcourse he was and can satisfy me in bed. My husband was kinda similar to some of the men.
Again- it doesn’t have much to do with my husband. It’s ME and what I do to fulfill some of my desires. I’m working on fulfilling them in better ways. It’s plain and simple.


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## Newgem

ABHale said:


> So why didn’t you the first time? Hard to teach a old dog new tricks.


I didn’t the first time around bc I ended up becoming comfortable in my marriage and lost sight of what I had. The only person I’m fooling is myself when going on dating apps or meeting up with other men. And ofcourse I’m hurting those around me.
Ive learned that in order for me to stay loyal and committed for the long term- I need to work on it daily. And never lose sight. Bc without a doubt, I have an addictive personality. It’s not drugs or alcohol, it’s whatever I did in the past


ABHale said:


> Your saying you want to change then write this?
> 
> That would be the day.


If you haven’t read the whole thread don’t judge what I said in that post lol. There’s a reason I replied the way I did and I made that apparent in later posts.


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## Newgem

ABHale said:


> Being raised with and believing in something is completely different. Just like preacher’s kids, they are either great Christians or hell bent on shedding off any vestige of their parents beliefs
> 
> You have no morals or integrity. Your character is defined by your actions. By your actions, you will never be a safe partner in life for your husband.


I have no morals or integrity? If you were with someone for over 16 years and had a child with them and and this person made mistakes but wanted to change, you wouldn’t give them another chance?
You only know a small part of me and what I’ve shared. You don’t know me as a whole- I 100% know my past actions won’t make me a safe partner now, but I also know what I’m doing currently and will continue to do will make me a safe partner in the future.


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## Sufi22

*I didn’t the first time around bc I ended up becoming comfortable in my marriage and lost sight of what I had. The only person I’m fooling is myself when going on dating apps or meeting up with other men. And ofcourse I’m hurting those around me.
Ive learned that in order for me to stay loyal and committed for the long term- I need to work on it daily. And never lose sight. Bc without a doubt, I have an addictive personality. It’s not drugs or alcohol, it’s whatever I did in the past*

Newgem - you are showing a lot of self insight in these later posts. The key however is to walk the walk. Only you and your husband know how much real work you are putting in to make the kinds of changes in yourself you describe. As you say it's a daily process of checking yourself - There are a lot of skeptics here, many of them who have heard words from their wayward partners that are not followed up by actions. How much do you communicate with your husband about what your why's are? and what you're doing to rebuild your marriage and his trust in you?


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## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP. There was a good suggestion for you to talk with other wayward spouses about what you're going through and try to gain insight into changing your behaviour. 

Mods I apologize if I'm breaking any forum rules here, but the Wayward Side forum on Surviving Infidelity is one place you can discuss your situation with other wayward spouses. It's an active forum, you'll get a lot of responses. Check out some posts there, maybe it could help you.


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## ABHale

Newgem said:


> I have no morals or integrity? If you were with someone for over 16 years and had a child with them and and this person made mistakes but wanted to change, you wouldn’t give them another chance?
> You only know a small part of me and what I’ve shared. You don’t know me as a whole- I 100% know my past actions won’t make me a safe partner now, but I also know what I’m doing currently and will continue to do will make me a safe partner in the future.


We will just disagree on this.

I hope you make it with your endeavor to change. There is a reason for the saying “once a cheater, always a cheater”. Here’s to proving it false in your case.


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## Robert22205

_*It’s the mystery, challenge, excitement of meeting new people and talking to (in the past meeting with) multiple men. I do like the variety sexually. Playing different roles. *_

The above goes along with being single. Unfortunately, that behavior places a marriage at very high risk for infidelity and is not acceptable. If you want to be married, you can't behave as if you're single. 

Of course being single has pluses ...but so does marriage. A mature person does what has to be done not what feels good to them. Grow up.


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## A18S37K14H18

Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


OP,

You asked what is wrong with you. Obviously I can't answer that as I don't know you.

But, after you did this 4 years ago, it's apparent that you didn't do the work on yourself that you needed to do then. You didn't mention counseling, introspection, reading books, watching vids and podcasts, communicating much of that with your husband and such.

If you had done those things, you wouldn't have done what you recently just did (most likely).

After what you did 4 years ago, you should have been all in on finding out why in the heck you were able to do that.

You should have already known the answer to this question, to "What is wrong with me?" due to putting in the required work.

None of us will be able to tell you what is wrong with you, but you can provided you now put in the work on yourself.

Do it, whether you lose your marriage or not. You need it for yourself and any future relationships you are in.

Oh, do NOT get into another romantic relationship until you've worked on yourself and found out why you do this or you'll just end up doing this again while in your next relationship.

There is no way around this, no magic pill or bullet you can deal with to just make this go away and keep your husband.

You don't get the choice of whether he'll choose to stay with you or not.

Your ONLY play is is to begin taking actions (words don't mean much) and begin work on improving yourself.

It takes a long time for trust to be restored and that's what I was getting at when I said there is no magic pill for you to fix this with. There isn't a shortcut, there isn't any get out jail free cards.

It will be years of hard work, for both of you, if he chooses not to divorce you.


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## Gabriel

You clearly need counseling and therapy. I don't see how you fix this yourself. It hasn't worked in 5 years, why would it work in the future.

Get help, whether your H divorces you or not.


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## Newgem

hyperion0428 said:


> Bullsh*t. You just like the attention. Please don't try to make your cheating somehow more meaningful and special than all the other cake eaters out there.
> You just have a very high opinion of yourself and realize that you are aging and soon men won't, how did you put it, "take one look into your eyes and be wrapped around your finger"?.
> Honestly the fact that you think that is not only sad and delusional but really gross.
> You probably think you're an 8 or maybe even a 9 and you're a 7 on your best day, with tons of make up and your hair extensions in.
> 
> I truly hope you don't get pregnant as it would trap your husband with you. Although maybe he would have the guys to leave you if you do get pregnant.
> 
> Cake eaters like you with self esteem issues never stop cheating and end up alone. Goof luck to ya.


You clearly haven’t read the whole thread to actually think I made that comment in a realistic sense. It was a reply to a previous comment which questioned my intelligence. And for all the ppl on here that are SO fixated on that comment I made - how about all the other insightful things Ive said afterwards? Those don’t count?


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## Newgem

Robert22205 said:


> _*It’s the mystery, challenge, excitement of meeting new people and talking to (in the past meeting with) multiple men. I do like the variety sexually. Playing different roles. *_
> 
> The above goes along with being single. Unfortunately, that behavior places a marriage at very high risk for infidelity and is not acceptable. If you want to be married, you can't behave as if you're single.
> 
> Of course being single has pluses ...but so does marriage. A mature person does what has to be done not what feels good to them. Grow up.


I agree- I have to hold myself accountable


----------



## Newgem

-


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## Kaliber

Newgem said:


> I agree- I have to hold myself accountable


@Newgem how are things going between your husband and you?


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## EssexUKMale

Newgem said:


> Long story short:
> 
> I’ve been with my husband for a total of 16 years. I had some loyalty issues in 2017 while married (search my old thread) and even before that when doing long distance while engaged. The 2017 incident is where I basically spoke to many different men and met with a few when married before getting caught. I did this all after a miscarriage (not that I’m justifying it, just for context). Was VERY difficult but my husband forgave me and we ended up having a little one who is almost 3 now.
> 
> Couple months ago I find myself going on dating apps again and talking to multiple men. For 4 years I kept my promise until 2 months ago. My husband finds out and is considering separation. We’ve been trying for another baby for almost 2 years and it’s been diagnosed as “unexplained infertility” which has been extremely stressful and heartbreaking for me. I honestly think it was my way of getting attention and distracting myself from stuff not happening in my life. I also need to add That I don’t just talk to one man. It is multiple men at the same time. This being said - I never met up with any, just messaged and photos....
> 
> What is wrong with me? I’m about to lose my marriage over some petty nonsense. Is there anyway to salvage this? I feel so stupid. My husband has zero trust in me.


You lack any decency and act like a child. You need to find accountability and realise you are just a terrible partner. And to betray a husband or wife by cheating makes you the worst part of their life. As you are the only person who could hurt them this way. Trust is like a vase. If it’s breaks you can repair it. But you will always have the cracks. If you could cheat with out him ever believing you would. How can he ever trust you fully again now he knows it’s in your to cheat. As your not even a 1 time cheater clearly it’s just in your nature.


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## Everythingchanges

Newgem said:


> I know I have a bad attitude. I’m here to get help and suggestions


Depending on your husband’s disposition, it sounds to me like you’re a natural “hotwife” and he may make a very happy cuckold if he’s already forgiven everything you’ve done to date. Could be a very short reach for both of you, and an arrangement where you can find happiness together without feeling you need to be “fixed”. Maybe you’re just not built for a traditional marriage, and are trying to beat a round peg into a square hole.

Research FLR. Your husband may prefer a subordinate role in your marriage, and may very well love you enough to let you be who you are. You might, too.


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## ArthurGPym

Newgem said:


> I met my husband over 16 years ago when I was 19/20 and no I wasn’t like this. Ofcourse he was and can satisfy me in bed. My husband was kinda similar to some of the men.
> Again- it doesn’t have much to do with my husband. It’s ME and what I do to fulfill some of my desires. I’m working on fulfilling them in better ways. It’s plain and simple.


It just sounds to me like you are a polyamorous person trying to live the life of a monogamist. Maybe you should start being honest with yourself and with your husband. You fought the urge not to cheat on him for many years, but eventually your true nature asserted itself. You are not cut out for monogamous marriage. Divorce your husband and find a partner who is into swinging, the "lifestyle" and open marriage. Such a person would be a better fit for you.


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## MattMatt

Addicts often slip back. @Newgem I think you need treatment from a specialist in treating addicts.


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## Talker67

Rus47 said:


> Thankfully your attempts to become pregnant failed. Would imagine your husband is taking all precautions.
> 
> It sounds like whenever you are stressed, you turn to other men. You said you met with others 4 years ago, did you have sex with them too? Imagine even if not your husband imagined you did. These recent incidents follow the same pattern, and had you not been caught would you have met some of the men again?
> 
> You need some counseling/behavior modification to avoid being promiscuous whenever you are in crisis. For your own sanity and well being. Would be very surprised if your husband stays with you.


that is a great idea.
one thing psychologists are great at: develop coping mechanisms for when you are stressed!


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## Arkansas

Newgem said:


> What is wrong with me?


you have no ethics / morals when it comes to what a marriage is
you don't respect your husband or your vows under God
you don't value family, trust and faith

that's what's "wrong"


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## thunderchad

I would advise your husband to leave you. Once a cheater/liar, always a cheater/liar.


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## bygone

a late comment

It's funny that you don't see dating other men as cheating, just kissing, just eating, just drinking.

Is there any reason to believe you didn't have sex? It's hard to believe someone who has met dozens of men. You don't meet people you're not interested in

If your husband went through the same thing with other women, your reaction would be terrible.

cheaters never forgive cheating.

You are disturbed by comments because we do not know you or do not know the whole picture.

You are wrong again, you are not alone, the movie is always the same, the actors change. You are not different or special, you are someone who manipulates your husband and tries to live,

do you regret

You enjoyed it and will continue.

Don't try to manipulate us.


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## Evinrude58

So you held out for 4 yrs and went back to the well. You do realize that you’re going to have to go back for another sip, right?

Just divorce the guy and be single. He can find a lady that’s monogamous and you can do the wine tasting thing with multiple men.

Ttere is no good reason to stay married and hurt your husband in the worst way repeatedly. 

You just aren’t cut out for monogamy.


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## truststone

Newgem said:


> I have no morals or integrity? If you were with someone for over 16 years and had a child with them and and this person made mistakes but wanted to change, you wouldn’t give them another chance?
> You only know a small part of me and what I’ve shared. You don’t know me as a whole- I 100% know my past actions won’t make me a safe partner now, but I also know what I’m doing currently and will continue to do will make me a safe partner in the future.


he gave you a chance and you messed up again thats the problem when is enough chances enough ??


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## ElOtro

Newgem said:


> I have no morals or integrity? If you were with someone for over 16 years and had a child with them and and this person made mistakes but wanted to change, you wouldn’t give them another chance?
> You only know a small part of me and what I’ve shared. You don’t know me as a whole- I 100% know my past actions won’t make me a safe partner now, but I also know what I’m doing currently and will continue to do will make me a safe partner in the future.


I wouldn´t say, not at all, that you "have no morals or integrity".
Even so, regarding your question, ("If you were with someone for over 16 years and had a child with them and and this person made mistakes but wanted to change, you wouldn’t give them another chance?") and discarding as IMO wrong to put that kind of unloyalty as a "mistake".....my answer would be and had been NO.


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## MattMatt

@Newgem How are you and your husband doing?


----------

