# At what point is it considered crossing a line AKA emotional cheating



## lonelywife76 (May 18, 2015)

I have been married for 13 years. Everything was fine until a seed got planted in my head. This was the first I ever felt like I couldnt trust him, so I watched him like a hawk. Its not like he always went somewhere he shouldnt on the web, it was where it led up to.

I would see something that set me off, confront him then he would delete history. He doesnt know I know other places to look like cookies or dns cache. He has mentioned that he accidently hits a facebook group page and "gets into trouble" but what he fails to realize is its one thing to accidently click on a questionable group page its another story when you follow the link to the main website for that 'group'

Ill give you some examples. I have no doubt that ****** ******* pops up when you go to porn hub, I know because Ive been there. I can tell when it has opped up because it follows the porn history. The first time he went there he googled ****** ******* and went directly to the site, then an article about why women cheat, then the FB AM page where he looked at all the pics.

Now, I know for a fact he entered in attached male seeking female though he denies it. Ill give you a rundown of where he has been and you tell me if I am being over dramatic about it. He went to the FB group younger women who want an older man and clicked on a younger womans profile, looked at all her pics,

He went to FB group sugar daddy for me checked a bunch of racy pics of younger women and also followed the link to their main website, guess he didnt realize he couldnt look without joining.

He went to FB group we are 18+ followed link to their main site, watched the video of 2 girls who were presumably going to get it on and at the bottom of the page he clicked on " to find hot women in your city click here" which he did and it took him to hookup cloud.com

He watched the trailer for avatar 2 and clicked on a article titled "3 questions to make any girl chase you" the link takes you to "accidental loophole in female psychology" where it tells you how to attract ANY woman, go to this vid and such which he did, once you get thru the 2nd video there is a list the choose an option from explaining why you are interested in this system (dont know which one he picked) with your email to get the "7 day crash course in how to attract women"

Of course he panicked because he didnt realize he just signed up for newsletters and that his email would get flooded with these tips on how to attract and turn women on. Oh and according to his email before he deleted everything he signed up for fling.com.

But I have read fling.com is a scam so I didnt put much stake into that. Other than that he hasnt actully signed up for any of these sites but it bothers me he is going to ****** ******* site that promotes cheating and the sugar daddy site. He is obviously looking and wanting something different and this is unacceptable to me.

He admits nothing, he doesnt know that I have as much as I do. I even went so far as to set up a fake FB profile to see if he would actually go the extra mile to cheat. He either suspected it was me or he was afraid I saw the message because he knows I have access to his FB. He made sure he told that he could have just deleted it and not tell me. He only told me about the 2nd msg though, he deleted the first one

There are other issues at hand with him, he says he loves but I dont think he does the way he should. He wont kiss me, he uses the excuse that something in his past makes him not want to. If that truly was the case then why did he kiss me to begin with early in our relationship. He wants no part in foreplay, he wont even touch me, just wants me to spread at will when he decides he wants to.

I have no emotional connection with him anymore, quite frankly Im disgusted to be in the same bed with him, I keep thinking about all he has done and he makes me sick. I have begged him to do something, show me I am wrong about him, we have kids and I dont want to destroy that. I dont know what to do


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Personally I think an emotional affair is when the partner starts to want to spend time with the AP more than the spouse and tells the AP things they either won't or don't want to discuss with their spouse and when they hide that relationship from the spouse.

I'm not sure if your H is having an EA, an actual affair or just looking but he is obviously not emotionally connected to you with the sudden no kissing (often perceived by cheaters as cheating on their AP) and no foreplay.

I suggest you continue to monitor his behavior, including getting a VAR for his car and document everything about his internet habits. Meanwhile tell him you feel a disconnect and ask him to go to MC. If he isn't willing to go, even at the risk of losing his marriage, you have your answer. Whether there is someone else or he's just looking, he has checked out of his marriage and isn't willing to try and get it back.

It also doesn't hurt to get a free or low-cost initial consultation with an attorney. In some states cheating impacts equitable distribution and therefore court-admissible evidence of cheating could be important.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

sounds like he is crossing your martial 'boundaries' - as oppossed to cheating per se. but that is something serious enough to confront him on


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Well, it isn't rocket science that he has some sort of a sex addiction. His cyber women have replaced you. And I want you to pay close attention to the word "addiction". This means he needs serious professional help (not some ditzy marriage counselor, but a true specialist in sex addiction) if he is to effectively confront this.

If you have any interest in salvaging the marriage, he needs an ultimatum- you or his addiction. He will deny almost everything, but you need to prove to him you know what's going on and also be prepared to make this public so his family knows so maybe they can encourage him to seek help. 

Also, "once and addict, always an addict", so this isn't going to be a smooth road.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Well, it isn't rocket science that he has some sort of a sex addiction. His cyber women have replaced you. And I want you to pay close attention to the word "addiction". This means he needs serious professional help (not some ditzy marriage counselor, but a true specialist in sex addiction) if he is to effectively confront this.
> 
> If you have any interest in salvaging the marriage, he needs an ultimatum- you or his addiction. He will deny almost everything, but you need to prove to him you know what's going on and also be prepared to make this public so his family knows so maybe they can encourage him to seek help.
> 
> Also, "once and addict, always an addict", so this isn't going to be a smooth road.


:iagree:

All of this....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lonelywife76 said:


> I have been married for 13 years. Everything was fine until a seed got planted in my head. This was the first I ever felt like I couldnt trust him, so I watched him like a hawk. Its not like he always went somewhere he shouldnt on the web, it was where it led up to.
> 
> I would see something that set me off, confront him then he would delete history. He doesnt know I know other places to look like cookies or dns cache. He has mentioned that he accidently hits a facebook group page and "gets into trouble" but what he fails to realize is its one thing to accidently click on a questionable group page its another story when you follow the link to the main website for that 'group'
> 
> ...


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

lonelywife76 said:


> I have been married for 13 years. Everything was fine until a seed got planted in my head. This was the first I ever felt like I couldnt trust him, so I watched him like a hawk. Its not like he always went somewhere he shouldnt on the web, it was where it led up to.
> 
> I would see something that set me off, confront him then he would delete history. He doesnt know I know other places to look like cookies or dns cache. He has mentioned that he accidently hits a facebook group page and "gets into trouble" but what he fails to realize is its one thing to accidently click on a questionable group page its another story when you follow the link to the main website for that 'group'
> 
> ...


My ex was doing all of this. The difference was, I did not tell him I knew. I should have, in hindsight. Obviously we had other issues going on in our marriage to make me not want to expose him. He ended up hooking up with a complete stranger he met after posting ads (and responding to ads) on Craigslist.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

can you share a could things....your ages, a bit of his family life, do you have children, any life changes in the past year, when has the changes in his behavior started?


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## Kresaera (Nov 8, 2014)

I have no advice, I just wanted to say that I know how you feel


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just as women have unrealistic expectations of marriage (never ending romance, etc.), I think men have unrealistic expectations (tons of sex, lots of fun). And when you've been married long enough, it's not a hard leap to imagine men starting to wonder where all that great sex is. Even if they know they'll never get it, they keep looking. I liken it to women going into the Louis Vitton store, knowing they'll never really GET something from it.

I think what really matters here is whether he was going to carry through on that.


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## lonelywife76 (May 18, 2015)

Everything was fine until I felt threatened by his friend. I came across a convo with them, he had known her since childhood, he supposedly just got back in touch with her but according to his fb he friended her 4 years ago. The convo wasnt sexual but he did have a connection with her.

I confirmed she also had that connection with him when I got on his fb and went around with her, she didnt know she wasnt talking to him. Up until this point he never deleted anything. I was uncomfortable with her calling him honey, babe, love etc and asked him to tell her to stop, he didnt.

I did have a convo with her and when I explained why I was upset with him, I was trying to get to know her (this was before I found out how she felt bout him) she kept asking me what he did and when I finally did tell her she shut down the convo real fast.

Long story short he stopped talking her and throws in my face how I made him choose between me or her. He swears there wasnt any spark between me but anyone could read the messages and see what I mean

We have 4 kids together. He started hiding things from me. And the porn thing. Im not mad he watched it, Im mad he tried to hide it and he lied to me. Last night he did it again. It took 2 hours of me packing my stuff and backing him into a corner before he would be honest with me. Why is the truth so hard for him.

He has had his last warning. Communication is the problem. I originally had unrealized expections, once I figured that out I began to openly communicate with him, he never communicated back. So now it has gone from unrealized expectations to unmet needs.

He says he watches porn so he can last longer, its not even about the sex, I have no emotional connection with him. He looks in thw wrong places when all he has to do is talk to me, communicate with me. I told him he needed help, heck I do too. He says he is willing to go MC but I would have to twist him arm to go.

In the end what happens next is on him, I was crystal clear with what I expect and honestly and communication are the 2 main things. You cant have a marriage wthout communication, but I dont know how to get past this, I cant trust him and he wont talk to me.


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## RobQ (Mar 1, 2015)

lonelywife76 said:


> I have been married for 13 years. Everything was fine until a seed got planted in my head. This was the first I ever felt like I couldnt trust him, so I watched him like a hawk. Its not like he always went somewhere he shouldnt on the web, it was where it led up to.
> 
> I would see something that set me off, confront him then he would delete history. He doesnt know I know other places to look like cookies or dns cache. He has mentioned that he accidently hits a facebook group page and "gets into trouble" but what he fails to realize is its one thing to accidently click on a questionable group page its another story when you follow the link to the main website for that 'group'
> 
> ...


1. very impressed with your sleuthing skills! How do you do those things? 

2. just because he is visiting those sites doesn't mean he has done anything. But as doing so, understandably, upsets you, you need to reinforce to him that doing so is a deal breaker and possible marriage breaker from your perspective. 

3. his approach to sex is moronic. That will have to be fixed - men need sex to emotionally connect.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lonelywife76 said:


> He says he watches porn so he can last longer, its not even about the sex, I have no emotional connection with him.


Wow, not sure I have ever heard that excuse. Does he set a timer??? IMO if you want to work on lasting longer, you work on it with your spouse, not by staring at a computer screen ...

Does he watch it a lot, to the point where he may be addicted to it? Could it be shaping his expectations of what sex should be like with you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another thing I've learned about men over the years is that many men 1) don't know HOW to do communication or connection; they simply never heard about it, no one ever told them why it's needed, no one showed them what it looks like. AND...many men see that as being weak, vulnerable, a p*ssy. So they will avoid it like the plague. So just telling him he needs to communicate is like my H telling me I just need to do such and such in the car engine to make it run; sounds logical, but I haven't the faintest idea how to approach it, let alone get it done.

And 2) many men are taught early on to lie to avoid punishment. Think about how many little boys are always getting in trouble, all the time, and their one instinct becomes to just do whatever it takes to avoid that punishment. When they marry, their wife subconsciously takes the place of their mom - the enforcer, and the one from whom they have to hide the truth to avoid punishment.

These aren't things he can change without long-term therapy. He just can't. If he won't go to therapy with you, nothing will ever change because he can't even SEE what's wrong with him, let alone change it.

But personally, the fact that he won't do foreplay (or kiss) just tells me that he's emotionally stunted at age 12 - where sex is ONLY about the guy getting off. At that age, they have NO ability to see the girl as a person, too, who ALSO has sexual desires. Thus, all you are is (sorry) a place to put his penis. And I wouldn't stay married to a man like that, because you really don't matter to him. You're just a means to an end - sex, housekeeper, status, cook, etc. Without therapy, he just will never be the man he pretended to be to hook you in.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> And 2) many men are taught early on to lie to avoid punishment. Think about how many little boys are always getting in trouble, all the time, and their one instinct becomes to just do whatever it takes to avoid that punishment. When they marry, their wife subconsciously takes the place of their mom - the enforcer, and the one from whom they have to hide the truth to avoid punishment.




What boys are taught this, to lie to avoid punishment? I sure wasn't taught that and I don't know anyone else who was. So girls don't get into trouble, or they do but they are taught to handle it the "right way"???

You don't seem to have all that high of an opinion of men since you believe MANY men are unable to communicate and are liars ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, they are. It's usually not the little girls who are running around like banshees and breaking things. And no one 'teaches' them to lie - they lie to get out of trouble, they see it works, they continue, it becomes reinforced in their brain, hardwired, and in a pinch they immediately go to it cos it's hardwired; the strongest neuron connections are the ones you pull out in a pinch. It's just human nature.

I'm not saying men are bad or evil; I'm saying they're conditioned.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> Well, they are. It's usually not the little girls who are running around like banshees and breaking things. And no one 'teaches' them to lie - they lie to get out of trouble, they see it works, they continue, it becomes reinforced in their brain, hardwired, and in a pinch they immediately go to it cos it's hardwired; the strongest neuron connections are the ones you pull out in a pinch. It's just human nature.
> 
> I'm not saying men are bad or evil; I'm saying they're conditioned.


Funny, when I got into trouble I was thought to stop doing what I was doing to get into trouble, not to lie to get out of it. I don't buy into them being conditioned that way ... 

I have seen females lie when confronted to get out of trouble, but they aren't conditioned, only men


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