# How do you balance fairness in Finances?



## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

I have a query regarding finances.

How do most couples balance the problem of well you just bought a $1,000 purse, so I should get $1,000 to spend on myself then too?

I have an issue currently where I was hoping to upgrade my vehicle after 6 years. It is "my" vehicle, but because it is a SUV we definitely use it together lots.

My wife's response was she was 100% against this. If I went ahead, she would start a war. I do not want that obviously.

She then went on to state if I spent $20,000 on a new vehicle, then she would have $20,000 to spend on herself.

I guess I just don't quite understand the logic fully. If she buys a pair of shoes for $200, I do not mark that down and say"ok, I have $200 to spend on myself now this month". Its kind of just back and forth, and only when there are larger items do we discuss together. I don't need to approve or discuss my wife spending $200 on shoes. 

She feels she has said no too many times, which I disagree with, but I guess that is why maybe she feels that if I spend $20,000 on "myself", then she gets too as well. Just seems like an odd statement from a "team member", but perhaps I am missing the point of all of this.

Thank you for any comments you have. They are very appreciated.

Cheers,
Nick


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your wife have a vehicle too? If so how old it is and what is it's value compared to the one you have right now?

Does your wife have a job (outside of the home)? If so what % of your joint income does she earn?

Do the two of you have a savings that is at least enough to live on for 6 months?

I'll answer more after I get answers to these.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Two older vehicles, but she treasures them both. She had one and then wanted to get one for winter, and store her car. I said sure so we bought her a winter SUV. Total value of her 2 vehicles compared to my current one is prob same ($20,000). I want to spend $30,000 on new one though (with my trade in). So then I would own a $50,000 vehicle compared to her $20,000 2 vehicles.

I earn 75% of total income, she is 25%. She wanted 4 days a week, I agreed and we obviously took an income hit then.

No worries on savings. 

Thanks!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are the vehicles she drive in her name only and yours in your name only?

Do you have children? Is that why she only works 4 days a week?

You should not buy a new vehicle until the two of you can come to agreement on it. When would you be able to buy a new vehicle for her to drive that is about the same value?

Does your wife really spend $1000 on a purse? What you might want to do is to go through your bank and credit cards and add up how much each of you spends on yourself. If you can show that the difference of what you have spent on your self over the years and what she has spent a huge sum on extravagant things list $1000 purses and it adds up to the $30,000 you will be spending on a new vehicle, by all means show her this. 

Now to answer the rest of your question.. how to handle her spending $$$ vs your spending $$$...

The following is a very fair way to structure your finances... all income goes into a joint account..

Set up both of your pay so that you both maximize any kind of 401K or retirement investment at work. This way it is before taxes, happens automatically and you get the company matchings.

The have about 10% of each of your income deposited into a joint savings account... this is for emergencies etc.

Have the rest of both of your pay checks deposted into a joint account.

Pay all of your bills from this account. In this case your auto loan would be paid as it's a joint marital asset.

Now you have the rest of your joint income... that's spending money. YOu each get 50% of that as your own money. you can each open up a separate account for this money. 

She can buy all of the $1000 purse and $200 shoes she want out of her half. Credit cards are only allowed if they are paid off in full each month.

Even though the two of you can have seperate accounts for your own mad money... there is full transparency. You can both see each other's accounts, credit cards, etc. But neither of you can complain about how the other spends or saves their own mad money.

I suggest that you get the book "Smart Couples Finish Rich". It's a very good read and could help you two.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Phoenix2012 said:


> Why not split the household expenses evenly and then whatever is
> Left of your own you spend as you see fit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Selfishly this would be great for me, but I cannot see going from a joint arrangement to this after several years of marriage and not pretty much putting the writing on the wall.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

No kids. She felt she wanted only 4 days a week.

Probably 6 years until we could same for her, but she doesnt want that. She is very happy with her current setup.

I definitely spend more overall, based on the fact my clothing for work is much more than hers. But I make six figures, and with that comes a want, expectation, whatever it is that I feel I need to dress a certain way. Overall I definitely spend more than her in a year, but she does not want for a lot. She does say no to things more than I, and I respect that. So when she wants two $1000 purses, or 2 vehicles, then I am more than happy to agree.

We pretty much follow the joint suggestion below. No issues until the last year when she feels I am getting things al the time and she is not. I guess I have never kept tabs before and maybe I should have. But if she wants to take a trip, great go if we can afford it. I don't necessarily then instantly think, well I guess I get a trip then. She does think like that. I just think its odd. 




EleGirl said:


> Are the vehicles she drive in her name only and yours in your name only?
> 
> Do you have children? Is that why she only works 4 days a week?
> 
> ...


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok OP... this is my suggestion. Why not have one joint account where you each put money in for any bills and necessities... then each have your own account for you money?

My SO and I plan to have this arrangement. Right now he is the only one working so we use his account BUT he is helping me apply for a job soon and we have already discussed how to split the finances. His truck needs fixingg up as well and with the job I plan to get... I will be making more then he does. 

Even so... to me this just means I can set more aside to pay for our bills and any other things we may need. Regardless of who makes what... we both see it as our money and we both plan to help eachother out. I would certainly not pull a... "ok you spent X amount on this so I get X amount for later". No... whatever we have in our SEPERATE accounts is what we have to spend on playthings. That's just us though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> No kids. She felt she wanted only 4 days a week.
> 
> Probably 6 years until we could same for her, but she doesnt want that. She is very happy with her current setup.
> 
> ...


It does sound like she thinks she is getting the short end of the stick even though she earns much less than you do. I strongly believe that in marriage all income belongs to both of you as that is marriage law in most places in the USA. If it's different where you live then that would be considered as well.


If you spend a lot more on yourself and then buy yourself a 50K auto.. and she has two vechicle, each valued at 10K. That is a significant difference in the kind of auto you each drive. 

Could you trade in all of the vihilcels and buy both of you new cars? Or maybe instead of new buy slighly used... thus saving quite a bit on each vehicle.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Your last post is more revealing

You are more of a spender on yourself than she is and she's starting to get fed-up. Now you want to up the ante in a big way with a significant vehicle upgrade.

Time for compromise - what would she prefer to do with the money ? Can you spend less to ensure your vehicle is paid for before hers need replacing so she can have the next upgrade ?

If you are financing the car then its really only the monthly payment that is an extra that she should have to be 'equal' or if you agree a rolling programme of vehicle replacements then only the 'excessive' amount you want to spend

I do suspect you are a bit more extravagant than you are letting on here and the different attitude to money in general is behind this rather than just the new car


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I think that the solution would likely be a mutual agreement to some very basic financial principles that are framed in a way that it isn't gender-specific. My wife and I were fortunate that our incomes were relatively low when we started out. We agreed on some basics, and have stuck to them, despite the income growth. 

I'll admit that we are minimilist in our needs, although I'm in a threshold executive position now, and she is a nurse practicioner. Your standards should be your standards, though. 

We agreed that we would both like to buy new cars, since my job allows me to buy several domestic brands at cost (I work in the auto industry in new product development), but we also put a low cap on the expense of the car model, and an understanding that we would only have one car each. In other words, we wanted practical vehicles. Along with the expectation that we'd own it until it hit XX number of miles. We agreed on expectations for brands and values of items we would buy. Your plan should be your plan, though, based upon what the two of you agree upon as a couple. I think it is also important to keep all of this in the context of your goal for the total cash value of your planned retirement portfolio. My wife and I have a very serious set of goals for retirement, and we've grown through the years in our maturity in keeping daily expenses within this context.

Lastly, we agreed on how we would treat "fun money". Each of us got to decide on a rough amount of money that we would call a splurge account.

I guess I could sum it up by saying that we agreed upon a financial vision as a couple. We had to work through the usual disagreements, though, so I would not want to suggest that we didn't have the same feelings that you are going through. But it sounds like you may be asking more of how to have harmony with your wife in the way that the two of you spend. Based upon any spiritual or religious beliefs that either of you may have, you could also use the topic to talk about how you want to impact others in your community when you have excess.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

:iagree: with Ellegirl's post #5.

I also believe that it's a good idea to agree all major purchases in a relationship, as they invariably affect the family budget as a whole.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree: with Ellegirl's post #5.
> 
> I also believe that it's a good idea to agree all major purchases in a relationship, as they invariably affect the family budget as a whole.



Are you ok with her only working 4 days a week and earning much less?

I'm going to disagree with the others to an extent. Yes, it is shared money, but I can see someone in a nice office job making good money buying more expensive clothes. My office at one time expected suits. Dressing down from that would have Bern frowned upon. Also if she gets 1000 purses and such, she us getting nice things too. Wow, a 1000 purse! I thought only the very wealthy had items like that! 

I just feel that sometimes the person making less money feels entitled and is not realistic about finances.

Also i don't know why someone without children can only work 4 days a week. If she wants nicer things, then she could work a bit more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

This is just illogical to me. If my husband and I lived that way we'd have to claim bankruptcy. Your wife sounds like an entitled princess who wants everything to be 'fair'. Okay so lets assume for a second that you are in fact a spender and she resents that. The answer isn't to throw some tantrum and insist that you GET $20K too. Nope the answer is to have an adult conversation about money where the ultimate goal is win/win. You come to an agreement that is logical, reasonable and makes you both happy.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> I just feel that sometimes the person making less money feels entitled and is not realistic about finances.


Totally agree with your whole post.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I think the point is it will not be about just the 'purse' or just the 'car'

There will be a wider difference of opinion on money

Maybe she works 4 days and keeps house on the 5th so they both have weekends free?

Maybe she wants to put more away for the future than he does?

Where money is concerned, its always complicated


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## momiss2 (Aug 10, 2012)

Sometimes an issue over finances is not the real issue.. could be something else entirely ... maybe she feels you make all the decisions and she feels powerless in the relationship. Opening up the dialogue about relationship satisfaction is a good topic.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

momiss2 said:


> Sometimes an issue over finances is not the real issue...


Yah, like she's immature and selfish. This is a completely toxic way to manage household finances.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

nicholascanada said:


> I guess I just don't quite understand the logic fully.


I'll bet you don't, probably because she is speaking in a foreign language. Let me try to translate:

Your wife doesn't think you should buy another car unless the two of you agree on all the details of the transaction. Sounds reasonable to me. You resist because you don't understand the global policy here. Sounds reasonable again because the policy in in her head and for all you know, it could be anything. Typical male/female mismatch.

My humble suggestion is to google "marriage builders" and look at dr harley's "Policy of joint agreement". I think this is an excellent global policy and when you consider it carefully, you will see exactly what I mean.

I showed this to my wife and asked her to agree. She read it, thought it was fine and agreed. Later, when it came to putting it in action, she reneged and got our marriage counselor to agree with her. I share this because I feel it proves the fairness of the policy. My wife does not currently have the maturity to enter into a reciprocal adult agreement, that's why she can't be bound to it. The way she sees herself (as when she agreed) and the way she is compelled to act (as in the doing) are divergent. Understanding this is a great help to me in operating our marriage.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> Are you ok with her only working 4 days a week and earning much less?
> 
> I'm going to disagree with the others to an extent. Yes, it is shared money, but I can see someone in a nice office job making good money buying more expensive clothes. My office at one time expected suits. Dressing down from that would have Bern frowned upon. Also if she gets 1000 purses and such, she us getting nice things too. Wow, a 1000 purse! I thought only the very wealthy had items like that!
> 
> ...


This is why I wonder if it comes down to shared values on finances, along with many other areas of married life. My wife wears scrubs, but I have to fit within a dress code that allows for frequent meetings with supplier VIPs, or even dealers. But I try to save in every way possible. When I tried to urge my wife to buy a purse that she liked, she seemed apalled at the notion of spending $70 for a purse. We chose a more practical approach to life, but it took a lot of discussion to get there. Shared values came into play when we had children, and she wanted to quit working for a time, while gradually taking on more and more hours as the children grew. Not suggesting that I didn't make plenty of selfish mistakes along the way. Elegirl was spot on, in my opinion, and I think that situations like this only highlight the need to make sure that we, as a married couple, are in agreement at a much deeper level.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's disaster in a marriage to work against your spouse. In other words, if she feels you are "getting" something and therefore she needs to "get" something, this is working against each other.

My view is money belongs to the marriage and not the individual regardless of who earn it. The law supports this by the way. So, the money both of you earn is used to meet both of your material needs, wants and luxury items.

The way I handle this is to create a yearly budget. My wife and I discuss and agree to how our money will be spent. The "constraints" in our budget are the necessities... We then have a basic agreement of how much we should be saving from our income that will afford us to pay for our retirement and kids educations (long term things).... With whatever amount is left over we look at replacing cars,vacations, home improvements... By the way it's good to have a policy that you keep a car for a certain number of years... Let's say it's 6 years, then every 3 years you are buying a new car and every 6 years each of you gets a new car. But the key is this is all discussed and agreed to in advance. The communication is open and fair and not a fight. Both parties need to get their needs satisifed.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> Selfishly this would be great for me, but I cannot see going from a joint arrangement to this after several years of marriage and not pretty much putting the writing on the wall.


True enough, but consider the fact that you make 3x what she does and she still complains about you wanting a nice car as her putting the writing on the wall.

IOW, doing what was suggested is an unsettling prospect given the potential consequences. But, you need to evaluate whether your reluctance to set a boundary is emboldening your wife to behave in this manner. Plus, if this issue is important to you, you will have to face it at some point.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Gaia said:


> Ok OP... this is my suggestion. Why not have one joint account where you each put money in for any bills and necessities... then each have your own account for you money?


I suspect this may not solve the problem. She indeed could be spending more than she realizes. But, he is thinking of paying $600 - $700 a month for the next 5 years on a new car. I suspect that her current spending may not close that gap, which would explain her stance.

So, the OP does need to evaluate the current spending a note where the money is going (esp. because he says they've never had to keep track before). Even without his wife's complaints, the fact that money availability is an issue means that they need to get ahold of their finances and plan better.

More importantly, the OP needs to look at the split of chores and duties (work and home) and evaluate his basic philosophy regarding this matter. At the end of the day, if he feels "my wife works only part time and I work long weeks to make good money, so I deserve more", that is a legitimate sentiment that needs to be aired. If his wife figures she deserves 50% just for being around (what it sounds like) then that is the issue.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hicks said:


> My view is money belongs to the marriage and not the individual regardless of who earn it. The law supports this by the way.


Sometimes.

In the U.S., most states are actually not community-property AFAIK. This means that assets would be split according to relative contribution.

Beyond that, however, there is the moral / ethical component to this issue. If he is working a lot harder than she, is it really fair that she gets just as much? Should she not close the effort gap by, say, doing most of the housework (if she is not doing so already) or going back to a full-time schedule instead of just "coasting"?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> Are you ok with her only working 4 days a week and earning much less?
> 
> I'm going to disagree with the others to an extent. Yes, it is shared money, but I can see someone in a nice office job making good money buying more expensive clothes. My office at one time expected suits. Dressing down from that would have Bern frowned upon. Also if she gets 1000 purses and such, she us getting nice things too. Wow, a 1000 purse! I thought only the very wealthy had items like that!
> 
> ...



Presumably the hours that OP's W works were a joint decision? 

A W not earning as much as her H was pretty much the norm until comparatively recently. Things have changed / are changing in this regard, and I think this sort of thing is best discussed / taken into account before marriage.

I'm not getting the impression that the OP's W is a spendthrift or overly materialistic. However, I am getting the impression that the OP doesn't see their joint income (albeit his W's being less than his) as joint funds. I think this is where I differ to a certain extent. When I was married I never thought in terms of "mine" or "yours," even though I had the greater assets.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Wonderful comments thank you. 

4 days wk was mutual. I was thinking at this time of suggesting going ahead with the car purchase, but then working on "evening" things out. We cant obviously spend that amount on her right now in one lump sum, but starting now getting her things she has put off. Although i think response would be lets start evening out things now for her but forget about car purchase for me. 

It is tough when you make 75% of income not to become resentful at these times. But i want to ensure things are even, obviously she disagrees. 

She always worries about money. So therefore if i buy something she thinks she has to say no to her stuff to compensate. I tell her that is not the case we are great financially. She is completely aware of our finances as well. But she was in bad financial situation prior to us and she worries it. Ould happen again. I am very aware of this. So she says she has said no on so many things i am not even aware of. That obviously when brought up now makes it difficult for me to argue i would like a new vehicle!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

My two cents.. 

You are never going to convert her into being a free spender. Its not in her nature. What you need to do is find out what she needs from you to feel more secure in the spending. Likely she feels that there is some missing element of trust here. Just because you are a millionaire today doesn't mean that money will be there in a few years. That is a guess as to the types of things running through her head.

There is probably some amount she has in her head that she wants to keep as a rainy day fund to cure her anxiety. She may want to see the contributions made regularly. You need to discuss with her what needs to happen to make her feel comfortable. Assure her there is a contingency plan in place and that all of your purchases are well thought out and not just on a whim.

I can see her side of this. It is frustrating when you constantly withhold your own spending thinking you are working toward a goal of socking away money, when your spouse is constantly chipping away at that goal you were working towards with their spending habits. She likely feels frustrated, angry, exasperated that you do not are this like she does.

It does not matter who is the bigger earner. In marraige, all assets are joint. I would argue this even with separate accounts. You both manage a joint household and work towards a joint future.

Now, you cannot let her become a martyr here. She cannot throw in your face all the things she has forsaken when you never told her to make those sacrifices. I would call her out on that.

Likely you can smooth this over with some better communication about your future goals and making sure she understands that you have put thought into such a large purchase.

We are nowhere near your income bracket but if my H came home one day and said he's buying a new car, when the old one wasn't dead or dying, I would have to pick my jaw up off the floor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

I have called her out. I said i tell you to buy this or that. But she wont. But then she brings it up at times like this of all the times she has said no. Difficult for me to argue that. 

We did have a plan of changing my vehicle. 6 yrs me she wanted more like 8. I had serious health problems last yr that now has made me not want to wait. Not using that as an excuse at 6 yr mark, but def has been driving force to do this now. 

She also got $5000 item this yr when timing wasnt best. I guess my pt is it always hasnt been me spending left and right. 



kag123 said:


> My two cents..
> 
> You are never going to convert her into being a free spender. Its not in her nature. What you need to do is find out what she needs from you to feel more secure in the spending. Likely she feels that there is some missing element of trust here. Just because you are a millionaire today doesn't mean that money will be there in a few years. That is a guess as to the types of things running through her head.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you are going hold the fact that you make more than she over her head, then you should not have married someone who cannot earn as much as you can. Maybe the two of you can focus and getting her into a position where she can earn a lot more and thus be an equal in your eyes. It’s very bad for a marriage when one person sees the other as unequal or inferior. Yes holding against her any thoughts that she does not earn as much as you is seeing her as inferior.

If I were she I would not have children with you, especially not if you expect her to stay at home and raise the children. It would put her in such a bad position financially. Especially when you get resentful about her lower income. I’ve seen this so many times. A good number of men even here on TAM bring up that they earn more than their wife and she is ‘just’ a SAHM. 

One of the reasons that she might object to the new vehicle is that she will be as responsible for paying for it as you are. While you might being in 75% of the income, legally she is responsible for 50% of the debt. And if anything were to happen to you, she is responsible for 100% of the debt. This is why her she has as much say in this as you do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> I have called her out. I said i tell you to buy this or that. But she wont. But then she brings it up at times like this of all the times she has said no. Difficult for me to argue that.
> 
> We did have a plan of changing my vehicle. 6 yrs me she wanted more like 8. I had serious health problems last yr that now has made me not want to wait. Not using that as an excuse at 6 yr mark, but def has been driving force to do this now.
> 
> She also got $5000 item this yr when timing wasnt best. I guess my pt is it always hasnt been me spending left and right.


8 years is not all that much different than 6 and it can make a huge difference in how much you have to put down on the vehicle.

Or make a compromise... 7 years. Sometimes you have to give a little.

You have a wife who wants to be frugal. Thank your lucky stars.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

For my wife and I, we have a true Communist model: Everyone contributes as much as we can, then take only what we need. It's essentially the same as Elegirl's plan, just much more simplified. And it requires a little more accountability from each spouse.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

So my thinking is that if my wife's two cars make her happy ($20000 cost), and my $40000 car makes me happy, then we're done. We're both happy. She didnt want a new car, she preferred a winter vehicle amd running two cars. 

So she is happy and im happy. Or does she get another $20000 to spend? Se this is where i start to have issues with her logic. If we both get things day to day that makes us happy, why do we have to add things up in the end and say, oh im $5000 short so im going to go buy "x"? 

Its not like im spending $75,000 a year and her $5,000. It def is weighted towards me, but a lot of that comes from my clothing for work (ie prob $5,000 yearly vs her $2,000).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> So my thinking is that if my wife's two cars make her happy ($20000 cost), and my $40000 car makes me happy, then we're done. We're both happy. She didnt want a new car, she preferred a winter vehicle amd running two cars.
> 
> So she is happy and im happy. Or does she get another $20000 to spend? Se this is where i start to have issues with her logic. If we both get things day to day that makes us happy, why do we have to add things up in the end and say, oh im $5000 short so im going to go buy "x"?
> 
> ...


$5,000 a year is about $416 a month

$2,000 a year is about $166 a month

So where do the $1000 purses and $200 shoes come in?

What was the $5,000 she spent money on earlier this year?

The issue that you don’t seem to get is that each of you has valid points. Your wife is not out wasting money. She seems to be very responsible with money. 

So the issue is that the money/income is community income. It belongs to both of you. She has as much say in how the money is used as you do. You should not buy a car for $50,000 or $40,000 unless she is 100% onboard with the idea. So you have to find a way to get her to agree or come to a compromise.

If you are worth millions, then buy the vehicle you want with cash and get her have the same amount to buy a new car, put in savings whatever or to do with whatever she wants.

If you are like a lot of others people you and your wife need to come to an agreement on this. 

One way is the way I suggested. Both split whatever is left after savings and all monthly bills are paid. Then you can save up and buy a car. You can make the car payment out of your half of the monthly split. But you have to be willing to let her have just as much cash every payday as you get.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I want to say something about asking forgiveness vs. asking permission, but I'll just keep quiet....


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

We discussed this again. When i wanted to bring up prior examples to show that things are fair, she wanted nothing of it. She only wanted to hear how i wanted to ensure fairness going fwd. 

She did spend $5,000 on something that was a want for her lately. I realize that my spend is asking four 4 times that now, but to me its the principle. 

She wanted this item badly so we discussed and made it happen financially. Now when i want similar, there is no discussion. She simply says i dont need a new car ( i agree, its a want), and she doesnt feel comfortable financially spending that. In fact when i bring up the $5,000 item she says stop bringing that up its over with. Well it is relevant to our current discussion i think.




kag123 said:


> My two cents..
> 
> You are never going to convert her into being a free spender. Its not in her nature. What you need to do is find out what she needs from you to feel more secure in the spending. Likely she feels that there is some missing element of trust here. Just because you are a millionaire today doesn't mean that money will be there in a few years. That is a guess as to the types of things running through her head.
> 
> ...


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

My current idea ( we have not discussed) would be to take dollars from my yearly spending on something else, and put it towards the monthly car payments.

This way, i give up something, get the car i REALLLY want, but our overall finances are not changed by one penny. 

Would this seem like a fair option or should i just give up my car hopes? Thank you soooo much again!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It is something fair to offer.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't know how helpful my response will be, but we don't have separations like that. I don't have a "my" car, and she doesn't have a "her" car. I've never had to worry about her financial sense and one of the things I most appreciate about her is that I've ALWAYS been able to trust that she has our family's best interest in mind.

We discuss major purchases and decide on them together, but they are always "ours" and never "mine" and "yours." 

For smaller items, I have a hobby, and I like to see her dressed nice. I like to see her personality in the house, so I don't really give much input into its decoration. If she thinks it needs something more, we will discuss it, and she always seems to convince me it's a good move, and she shows me our finances to show me that we're in good shape. That's all I really need to know, is that we've planned it, we can afford it, and she wants it.

For me, the biggest issue is actually being able to buy her something before she buys it for herself. We went to an allowance where I save things back to buy her gifts occasionally, but either I need to take her shopping to buy it for her, or we need to discuss it beforehand. Our division of labor in our house has made it so that she manages the household, and since she does that better than I would, I just don't argue it much.

That's how we handle it.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Ok i thought it was fair, just wonder what others think.

Unfortunately, i would bet the farm that her response will be why cant you give up that part of your budget spending AND forget about the car then?




nicholascanada said:


> My current idea ( we have not discussed) would be to take dollars from my yearly spending on something else, and put it towards the monthly car payments.
> 
> This way, i give up something, get the car i REALLLY want, but our overall finances are not changed by one penny.
> 
> Would this seem like a fair option or should i just give up my car hopes? Thank you soooo much again!!!


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

I don't use the term "fair" in my marriage, because life isn't fair, this isn't kindergarten, where we each get the same serving size of graham crackers. 
I prefer equitable. 
I think your wife is being manipulative, she has two cars, who needs two cars?
It doesn't even matter that her cars are worth X number of dollars & the car you want is worth $20K, the woman has two cars, outside of my very rich friends, I don't know people who have two cars "just because."
And she only works 4 days a week & took a pay cut but still expects to keep her spending the same?
Nope, that's not equitable, that's selfish.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> Ok i thought it was fair, just wonder what others think.
> 
> Unfortunately, i would bet the farm that her response will be why cant you give up that part of your budget spending AND forget about the car then?


So your wife is more fugal than you are. 

How many months of of living expenses do you have in savings?


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes she wanted to save her car from winter so we bought a winter vehicle for her ($15,000). We are not uber rich so prob others would agree that two cars is a bit over the top.

I wondered about the 4 day wk comment, whether someone else would bring that up. She feels overwhelmed due to her depression, so we agreed to take the loss of income. She said she would do errands and help us out getting things done on her day off. Mainly she lays around ( we split chores already, so i guess maybe she could take more of them but not offered). Hasnt done much on that day off to help the team or her illness.

She then went on disability two years ago, that is when she spent $2500 on two purses. I was more than surprised at that one. I didnt expect her to stop spending because she is on disability, but because her pay is cut already because of 4 days/wk, and then disability cut, just a bit odd to spend that much on two purses when your income is lowered.

I should be clear, my car would be $40,000 vs her two $20,000. We use ours together so just using hers and mine for this discussion.



Phenix70 said:


> I don't use the term "fair" in my marriage, because life isn't fair, this isn't kindergarten, where we each get the same serving size of graham crackers.
> I prefer equitable.
> I think your wife is being manipulative, she has two cars, who needs two cars?
> It doesn't even matter that her cars are worth X number of dollars & the car you want is worth $20K, the woman has two cars, outside of my very rich friends, I don't know people who have two cars "just because."
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm confused. So she is or is not working 4 days a week? If she's on disability is she also working?

With the big picture of your finances we cannot really judge much here. It sounds like your wife might be much more frugal than you. She might e more concerned about the big financial picture. That's why I asked you how many months of expenses you have in savings. 

If you can survive off savings for say a year or two then there is not much to worry about . If you only a month or two in savings then she just might have a point.

About the purses $2500 might have been a purchase made due to her depression. some people do occassional bing shopping as a way to self medicate due to mental health problems. It causes a fast rise in dopamine (and/or other brain chemicals) and makes them feel better. 

The $5,000 purchase... well we don't know what it was. If it was more purses and shoes.. thing Amelda Marcos.. and run for the hills.

This is all about the big picture of your finances and the policy of joint agreement. Have you let her know that her stance on this means that the two of you have to come to an agreement now that if either of you wants to spend more than $X in a one month period that they cannot. You both have to agree on any purchase over $X.

Will she agree to that?


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

She was on a trip enjoying life when the purses were bought doubtful it was depression related The $5,000 was cosmetic related. A want not need. 

We have more than enough in savings, no worries. She is on disability now but returning soon, to her 4 days wk. 

Also have other option now of upgrading vehicle for $10,000. I will see how that goes over. To me there shouldnt be an issue over $10k but maybe so.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

10K is a lot closer to 5K


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> 10K is a lot closer to 5K


That was what im thinking. Before my number was $20-$30 net needed. Now $10k might do it. Hard to argue $10k but maybe she will find a way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

It sounds as if you have different priorities and yours are not important to her but hers are clearly very important to her.

2 cars is verging on ridiculously indulgent for most people I suspect - if you need something specific for winter then you have that and use it summer as well. But if your budget allows it who are we to say ?

More and more it sounds like she is looking for an opportunity to spend another good slug of money on herself

Hard to be comfortable with this concept of 'you've spent $5k therefore I must also have $5k to blow as well'. Very childish on her part.

Forgive me if this seems a little rude, but perhaps being a childless couple drives behaviours a little with noone other than herself/yourself to consider. There is usually much more imperative to view things as a family pot when there are children - you do have to agree a plan for managing money and responsibilities to a much greater degree.

My suggestion now is that you shelve the car purchase for say 3m as you are getting nowhere. Get her back to work and once she is settled , try and have a more rounded discussion about your finances. I suspect she may pull the ill health card on you next otherwise.

A vehicle of some sort for both of you can be viewed as essential. The rolling cost of these should be part of your core bills at a level you both agree on. If she wants a 2nd car and you want a more expensive car, then these extra costs should come from your personal spending pots once you have decided how to manage and allocate these. Thats how I see fairness being achieved here.

You need to get away from the 'tit for tat' situation as best you can


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

nicholascanada said:


> Yes she wanted to save her car from winter so we bought a winter vehicle for her ($15,000). We are not uber rich so prob others would agree that two cars is a bit over the top.
> 
> I wondered about the 4 day wk comment, whether someone else would bring that up. She feels overwhelmed due to her depression, so we agreed to take the loss of income. She said she would do errands and help us out getting things done on her day off. Mainly she lays around ( we split chores already, so i guess maybe she could take more of them but not offered). Hasnt done much on that day off to help the team or her illness.
> 
> ...


Your wife seems to be afflicted with "entitle-itus", I would bet that if you started adding up all of her "just because" purchases, it would be significant.
You know, I would also love to save my car from winter, but it's A CAR, it's supposed to be used.
Unless one of her cars is a vintage '65 Vette, the whole "I need a winter" vehicle is further evidence that she feels that she is the one who is entitled in your marriage.
I notice she didn't have you get a winter vehicle.

As far as her income being lowered & her still spending like it wasn't, that's further proof that she still felt entitled to buy expensive things, because your income would cover her deficit.
If her depression is so great that she needs a day off from work, then she needs serious therapy because her depression is affecting her life. 
But it is curious that it's only 1 day, I would think she would need more than just the 1 day to deal with depression. 
Is she on meds?


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Her car is older but not vintage. I am fine with her having 2, just thought there would be some thoughtfulness in return when i want this earlier than planned due to my medical scare the past year. 

Yes has been similar in trips. Reminded me recently that i had trip prior to my chemo last yr (which was friends trying to cheer me up prior to my yr if hell) again its like you got a trip, where is mine. Has to be right down the middle equal. 

On meds. One day was supposed to help her but unfortunately she has done little with that day each wk to better her health, ie physical activity etc. 



Phenix70 said:


> Your wife seems to be afflicted with "entitle-itus", I would bet that if you started adding up all of her "just because" purchases, it would be significant.
> You know, I would also love to save my car from winter, but it's A CAR, it's supposed to be used.
> Unless one of her cars is a vintage '65 Vette, the whole "I need a winter" vehicle is further evidence that she feels that she is the one who is entitled in your marriage.
> I notice she didn't have you get a winter vehicle.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> Her car is older but not vintage. I am fine with her having 2, just thought there would be some thoughtfulness in return when i want this earlier than planned due to my medical scare the past year.
> 
> Yes has been similar in trips. Reminded me recently that i had trip prior to my chemo last yr (which was friends trying to cheer me up prior to my yr if hell) again its like you got a trip, where is mine. Has to be right down the middle equal.


Wait, what?! You were facing a year of intensive chemo and she was still asking for hers?

You really should have put this at the top. My response to her would have been "'yours' is you are healthy - you will not die from either the cancer or from the chemo".

Seriously consider cutting this loser loose.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes had chemo , radiation, two surgeries but all is good. 

Only reason i want the vehicle now is because i dont want to wait two years after what ive gone through. My life perspectives have changed. 

Also want a very inexpensive ($800) trip later this year to celebrate the journey being over. She was very upset, livid, because we agreed several months ago that we would not take any trips. I told her i realize we did, but opportunity for very cheap trip and i now want to do this to celebrate being done prior to returning to work. 

You really think i should cut ties? Always interested in what third parties say about the stuff i live with and def question sometimes!




DTO said:


> Wait, what?! You were facing a year of intensive chemo and she was still asking for hers?
> 
> You really should have put this at the top. My response to her would have been "'yours' is you are healthy - you will not die from either the cancer or from the chemo".
> 
> Seriously consider cutting this loser loose.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

As you well know, life is TOO short, none of us know how much time we have left on this earth, after what you have been through, I think her lack of empathy shows how self centered she is.
If you were my husband, not only would I ask what kind of car you wanted, I'd make damn sure you got it.
Every day would be a celebration of the life we have together, which actually isn't too far off the truth of the life I share with my husband.
This isn't a play, there are no 2nd acts, this IS your life, live it to the fullest & be damned those that seek to stifle that. 
As for that trip later this year?
I'd call the travel agent myself to book everything.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I would be taking you to the car showroom and throwing in my 2nd car as additional down payment in thankfulness for your safe passage. 

Hell, I'd chip in £100 of my own for someone's celebration of surviving cancer

Yes OP, you do need to look hard at your wife - it no longer looks like frugality on her part, but selfishness.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I agree with the others. Your life doesn't sound very caring. She sounds selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Funny, i think this; i think her reaction to this car thing is odd, i think her reaction to my trips was odd, but in the end i always thought maybe i was wrong. 



tennisstar said:


> I agree with the others. Your life doesn't sound very caring. She sounds selfish.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

I think her rebuttal to this is you can't hold your cancer over this car purchase. She is not synpathetic to that argument whatsoever. She will say i have depression, can i get a new car then?




YellowRoses said:


> I would be taking you to the car showroom and throwing in my 2nd car as additional down payment in thankfulness for your safe passage.
> 
> Hell, I'd chip in £100 of my own for someone's celebration of surviving cancer
> 
> Yes OP, you do need to look hard at your wife - it no longer looks like frugality on her part, but selfishness.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I wish that your wife would come here and post.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I wish that your wife would come here and post.


Why is that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

So i sat down and discussed idea of using budget funds from my other spending for the car. This way we would not be affected at all financially. 

Wife's response was you are just using cancer as an excuse to get the vehicle now. You dont realize it but you are. She reminded me i dont need a vehicle now. She also said she wore other siblings clothes growing up, and that she always has had to say no to things throughout her whole life (she was quite mad at this pt).

So discussion ended. Im still perplexed that she is not open a bit to this, and thinks i am using cancer as an excuse to get the vehicle now. 100% not the case. I had no plans to change out the vehicle for another two years. After my last yr battling cancer, im sorry but all bets are off. I am not wanting to wait on some things. But would never jeapordize us financially to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Also had interesting chat on her 4 day work wk. apparently wants to continue when she returns next month, and not related to health at all. Just based on hard life growing up and value of time away from work. Said, in a nice way actually, rich husband was allowing her to do this. I have no problem helping her achieve this but my two issues/concerns would be:

Fine, 4 day wk, but at least have a discussion with me about things like my vehicle want. Dont just get feverishly mad and reference wearing hand me down clothes growing up. 

Secondly, its again this constant reference to early hardships, which i dont think were terribly grave whatsoever speaking to her siblings about their upbringing. Her sister would never say oh i had bad childhood so im going to work 4 days. To me constantly using the past to achieve your goals is not a great plan. 



nicholascanada said:


> So i sat down and discussed idea of using budget funds from my other spending for the car. This way we would not be affected at all financially.
> 
> Wife's response was you are just using cancer as an excuse to get the vehicle now. You dont realize it but you are. She reminded me i dont need a vehicle now. She also said she wore other siblings clothes growing up, and that she always has had to say no to things throughout her whole life (she was quite mad at this pt).
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

nicholascanada said:


> Also had interesting chat on her 4 day work wk. apparently wants to continue when she returns next month, and not related to health at all. Just based on hard life growing up and value of time away from work. Said, in a nice way actually, rich husband was allowing her to do this. I have no problem helping her achieve this but my two issues/concerns would be:
> 
> Fine, 4 day wk, but at least have a discussion with me about things like my vehicle want. Dont just get feverishly mad and reference wearing hand me down clothes growing up.
> 
> ...



Hmmm, sounds like you're wife is using her past as her excuse to being a gold digger.
That sounds familiar, since she's accusing you of using your cancer to buy a new car.
I'd tell her to grow up & get overself, to stop using her past as an excuse, that her "entitleist" attitude is not attractive.
Most people have had some sort of issue when growing up, the difference is they don't let it define who they are & don't use it as an excuse.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Phenix70 said:


> Hmmm, sounds like you're wife is using her past as her excuse to being a gold digger.
> That sounds familiar, since she's accusing you of using your cancer to buy a new car.
> I'd tell her to grow up & get overself, to stop using her past as an excuse, that her "entitleist" attitude is not attractive.
> Most people have had some sort of issue when growing up, the difference is they don't let it define who they are & don't use it as an excuse.


Good pts. I laughed to myself when i told her , fine we can consider your 4 day week, but you then need to be more considerate of my wants (ir this car currently) she said oh but if im working 4 days then we will have less income and more of a reason we cant afford the car. Lol wow thats good. You get your 4 day wk AND another reason against my car purchase. Very smart 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

So she has had a day off work undefinitely, a second vehicle, $5k of cosmetic surgery (my presumption ) and various treats including $1k purses

You've had a small trip, more expensive work clothes and CANCER at age 40

I think you are coming to the point where you have to start telling it as it is. She appears selfish and entitled and you appear quite soft about it. I suspect you have never said NO to her or gone against her wishes yet. It might be time to do so.

If the vehicle really is affordable and you have all the necessary financial bases covered for the duration of the car finance then show her the budget and tell her that, with respect, you disagree with the affordability argument and will be proceeding with the car change as it is something you want just as much as she wanted her 4 day week, 2nd car etc

I don't think you are going to get anywhere 'reasoning' with her. You've been there and done that already. If she isn't willing for you to 'indulge' yourself a little after cancer, she probably never will be

If you're still then together, you still need to agree your budgeting style for the future.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes that is my thought now. Go ahead with purchase and see what happens. 

She said awhile ago she would start a war if i did that, maybe i should find out how that looks.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

So i am at the point where im either going to go soft again and back down or go ahead and in her words "start a war"

Tough to decide. Some stated earlier that going was not a great idea, but lately some have suggested it is time to finally push back. 

I just wished we could talk about the option but she wont have any of it. She keeps threatening and reminding me that i will start a war. Part of me wants to just go ahead and see exactly what a war would look like at this point! 

This feeling from her that i had such an easy life growing up, and she had such hard ships, therefore its time i start to wait for things...well it doesnt sit well with me. I am not sure what wearing hand me down clothes has to do with your husband purchasing a new vehicle. She really seems to be stuck in the past sometimes. 

Makes me think i should just tell her...you know what, you are now telling me your 4 day wk want has nothing to do with helping with your depression, so i would like you to go back to 5 day week when you return to work. Not sure why i should support that anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> Yes that is my thought now. Go ahead with purchase and see what happens.
> 
> She said awhile ago she would start a war if i did that, maybe i should find out how that looks.


Just remember. It's easy to start a war. But once the war has started, no one controls the outcome. 

You have two choices. 

One is to go for the policy of joint agreement. Any purchase over $100 has to be mutually agreed upon. This could mean no more $1000 purses and cosmetic surgery for her... it's a 2 way street.

The other choice is to buy the car and see what war looks like. Only do this if you think that your marriage needs a kick start to get to the next level... where she stops trying to control your actions while she does what she pleases. It's risk but might have huge payoffs.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> She keeps threatening and reminding me that i will start a war.


I'm more inclined to understand this more than it being about the money. I wonder why she might feel that she needs (or thinks it's acceptable) to 'threaten' that you'll be starting a war. It's curious that she's telling you that your actions will be the thing that cause her reaction to ignite emotions/response that is explosive. I'm curious as to what this really all means to her.


To answer your question in the thread title, we've never balanced 'fairness' in finances in that way. Our approach to money has certainly been different at times though, particularly in the earlier years. We agreed to discuss and mutually agree on large purchases together. He's into cars and it's important to him to enjoy the car he drives..... I get this, but when considering a car I'll be the one who's more concerned with the cost. He knows if it was down to me, I wouldn't consider cars he looks at because of price. While not excessive to our lifestyle, our priorities would be different. He knows I understand his desire and that it's needed for his job too. We decide together on the amount to spend. While it could be considered "our" car, it really is his car. I haven't had a car in years as I'm happy to take public transport and just don't have too much of a need for one where we live. I just consider it as part of the "us" package. 

He's more the spendthrift than I am, so sometimes I will question certain things he wants or see if there's alternative options. At the same time, his approach has lead us to take risks that I might not have otherwise and that's been beneficial to us. Our differences become a balance in this regard. In saying that, I love travel. His car is important to him; travel is important to me - he loves to travel too but that's probably more my domain. I've never felt I needed 'fairness' with purchases he's made or vice verse. I think we both do consider though, if there's a balance - a fairness - to our household; to our responsibilities and goals.


As for your wife's depression, while I have empathy for anyone going through depression, I do also feel that having something to go to each day/having specific responsibilities, can be beneficial - if your wife is functioning for the four days and then crumbling and staying in bed on the fifth day, I can't help but question if that's the opposite of what she's actually needing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> Also had interesting chat on her 4 day work wk. apparently wants to continue when she returns next month, and not related to health at all. Just based on hard life growing up and value of time away from work. Said, in a nice way actually, rich husband was allowing her to do this. I have no problem helping her achieve this but my two issues/concerns would be:
> 
> Fine, 4 day wk, but at least have a discussion with me about things like my vehicle want. Dont just get feverishly mad and reference wearing hand me down clothes growing up.
> 
> ...


Have a really discussion with her about when the past can be used to justify things and when it cannot. For example, why is her past hard life allowed to justify her working four days a week, while you past illness not allowed to justify buying a new car.

Based on this, finances are the symptom, not the real issue.


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

I agree with tall guy.

After reading all 68 posts, this is really not about the car. Nich: in your posts there just seems to be soooo much tit-for-tat on both sides - yours & hers. Sorry to be harsh, but I deal with this between my twin boys, never with my wife.

The underlying problem is a lack - or at least a feeling - of imbalance. The car, purses, etc. are just a means to express it and it is easier to do as these are tangible/quantifiable.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

A lot of people have a rough time growing up. But continuing to use it as an excuse for behavior and not getting on with their lives, bad idea.

I had some rough times too, but I'm not here at the age of 52 still talking about it and using it as a reason not to "live my life."

When someone actually stares their mortality in the face, things change. You want to experience things NOW, becaue you may not be here later...absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

If you can afford a new car, got for it. If she wants to stand in your way, then perhaps you need a new wife too? Sorry...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

nicholascanada said:


> So i am at the point where im either going to go soft again and back down or go ahead and in her words "start a war"
> 
> Tough to decide. Some stated earlier that going was not a great idea, but lately some have suggested it is time to finally push back.
> 
> ...


I recognized this one easy.

She wants all the money to be available for her to meet her needs. If you spend any on you, then it's less she gets for her expenditures.

And the fact that she didn't get things growing up--so what, did everyone? I only had two school outfits that I had to interchange through 9th grade and was made fun of everyday. Does that mean I can use that to behave badly now--no it doesn't.

I work my butt off to buy what I want. My husband and I spent a total of 45 years in the military in order to be able to retire, have money and buy what we want. And by god, I do and he does.

If she wants more money to buy her expensive purses and pursue cosmetic surgery, then she can work more to get those things. 

And as far as threatening and starting a war? Let her. Do you really want to spend the rest of your days with someone who is threatening and behaves like this?

You just found out how short life can really be, now it's time to make a decision about what you're going to do about it.

She sounds like a manipulative, selfish, uncaring shrew if you ask me.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

What does "war" mean for her? Make your life miserable?

She sounds very controlling. If you can afford a new car, then go buy it. You don't need her permission.

I have a friend who wanted a new car. Hubs is a tightwad & said no. She works full time & contributes to the household.

She loves hubs but is not afraid of him.

She bought the new car. He didn't speak to her for one week & then got over himself.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Have a really discussion with her about when the past can be used to justify things and when it cannot. For example, why is her past hard life allowed to justify her working four days a week, while you past illness not allowed to justify buying a new car.
> 
> Based on this, finances are the symptom, not the real issue.


This is a very interesting take.

I think her response would be that a vehicle purchase is not needed by me now, there is nothing wrong with my vehicle. I guess counter to that is she probably does not NEED to work four day either now, it is a want only.

Her second point probably would be that financially a vehicle purchase would make her uncomfortable, to spend that money now. Again, I guess counter could be her loss of income would be nice to have for the overall finances as well at 5 day week.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

When i pushed her on exactly what does war mean, she said it was just a choice of words. She was never able to explain what war meant or would look like. 




Emerald said:


> What does "war" mean for her? Make your life miserable?
> 
> She sounds very controlling. If you can afford a new car, then go buy it. You don't need her permission.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

nicholascanada said:


> This is a very interesting take.
> 
> I think her response would be that a vehicle purchase is not needed by me now, there is nothing wrong with my vehicle. I guess counter to that is she probably does not NEED to work four day either now, it is a want only.
> 
> Her second point probably would be that financially a vehicle purchase would make her uncomfortable, to spend that money now. Again, I guess counter could be her loss of income would be nice to have for the overall finances as well at 5 day week.


You are focusing on the finances, and not on the relationship. The money is just a symptom. How she views your respective roles in the marriage and the relationship *as a whole* is the problem.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Score cards in a marriage are not good.


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## nicholascanada (Aug 10, 2012)

To me if i went ahead and purchased the vehicle it would be the end. Maybe not reading below. 




Emerald said:


> What does "war" mean for her? Make your life miserable?
> 
> She sounds very controlling. If you can afford a new car, then go buy it. You don't need her permission.
> 
> ...


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