# Navigating a lose-lose situation



## .335487 (Dec 13, 2018)

How do you navigate trust rebuilding? It feels like a lose-lose situation.


I don't want to spend the rest of my life running security audits on a partner.

Snooping compromises my character.
Not snooping means I have no assurances, never rebuild trust.​
For the past 3-4 years I have not sent a Valentine's card, celebrated our first meeting-getting together (almost 20 years ago), no wedding anniversary. This is a **** way to treat someone but I can't bring myself to go back.

Can't forget and pretend it never happened. It doesn't feel right.
Can't continue to treat her this way. It doesn't feel right.​

How have you walked this line? Got any advice?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Parasite said:


> How do you navigate trust rebuilding? It feels like a lose-lose situation.
> 
> 
> I don't want to spend the rest of my life running security audits on a partner.
> ...


It depends on how you think about it, and where you currently are at.

If you're the one that blew the trust to begin with, then you're the one that has to make the first move rebuilding it.

If she cheated and you snooped, then I guess there's very little compromise on your character, and no trust on your end to have to rebuild. If she didn't and you snooped, different story.

If you're not celebrating anniversaries because she cheated, well I probably wouldn't either, and wouldn't feel bad about it. But if she didn't cheat and I didn't do those things, then I would, and I'd start doing them ASAP.

It sounds like your wife cheated and you are trying to reconcile but feel stuck. Is that where you're at?


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## .335487 (Dec 13, 2018)

Marduk said:


> It sounds like your wife cheated and you are trying to reconcile but feel stuck. Is that where you're at?


The only confirmation I have is an emotional affair (no evidence of sex) with a fellow grad school student. It was the "friend" that I was not to worry about. I only noticed the distance but attributed it to school work, reduced funds and poor employment prospects after graduating.

The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity, and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her. She must have thought that I would have been pleased, that she chose me after all. We were out a wine bar when she told this all to me.

Then everything seemed to click. The lack of sex in the past few years, the distance, the time spent meeting with friends, and the traveling after graduation. Goodness know who else she spent time with.

So I asked for a divorce. Asked if she wanted to keep renting the apartment or if she would like to move out. She cried and beg, etc.

Since then, there has been a close family death. Was going to ask for divorce again this month but the death in her family will delay me for at least another year.

With this death, there has been some behavior changes. I saw her use a vacuum cleaner in the house for the first time in a decade or so. 

Instead of pure happiness, my sorry mind thought:
Who's visiting the apartment?
Why else would she be cleaning?
What else is going on?
Where is "friend" currently?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Parasite said:


> The only confirmation I have is an emotional affair (no evidence of sex) with a fellow grad school student. It was the "friend" that I was not to worry about. I only noticed the distance but attributed it to school work, reduced funds and poor employment prospects after graduating.
> 
> The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity, and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her. She must have thought that I would have been pleased, that she chose me after all. We were out a wine bar when she told this all to me.
> 
> ...


If you've decided to divorce, the need to forgive her or she you is on the back burner. What needs to be dealt with then is the divorce.

I fail to understand how a death in the family means a year delay in seperation. Perhaps a month or two is a better timeline, and gives you time to get your ducks in a row?

I agree about the cheating. Her story makes zero sense. You don't get to "come move to another country with me" without having a fairly extensive, and sexual relationship prior to that.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I read part of your other post (2016). Your wife had an EA---probably long term. Therapists blamed you and one even suggested an open marriage. I DK why. Wife carries on with marriage celebrations. Y'all are from an Asian culture.

You are still miserable, untrusting and do not feel you can go back. I do not know the details of her affair. You had been together a long time--20 years? Sounds like your questions regarding her affair were unanswered. How could she travel with him and it not be physical? Physical doesn't just mean PIV.

So you lose either way. Is there still concern about rent-controlled apartment? Was yours an arranged marriage? I'm confused actually. Why will a death in her family delay divorce for a year? According to you, she does not function as most expect a wife to do and you want to divorce. Is there now someone else for you?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Who died? Unless it was someone like a parent who she was very close to I cant see why you need to delay anything. I think you are looking for excuses.


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## .335487 (Dec 13, 2018)

Marduk said:


> If you've decided to divorce, the need to forgive her or she you is on the back burner. What needs to be dealt with then is the divorce.
> 
> I fail to understand how a death in the family means a year delay in seperation. Perhaps a month or two is a better timeline, and gives you time to get your ducks in a row?
> 
> I agree about the cheating. Her story makes zero sense. You don't get to "come move to another country with me" without having a fairly extensive, and sexual relationship prior to that.


Feels like a divorce and walking away is the only way I know how to forgive. One of her parents died. Would be cruel to her and her remaining parent. We were all close.



sunsetmist said:


> I read part of your other post (2016). Your wife had an EA---probably long term. Therapists blamed you and one even suggested an open marriage. I DK why. Wife carries on with marriage celebrations. Y'all are from an Asian culture.
> 
> You are still miserable, untrusting and do not feel you can go back. I do not know the details of her affair. You had been together a long time--20 years? Sounds like your questions regarding her affair were unanswered. How could she travel with him and it not be physical? Physical doesn't just mean PIV.
> 
> So you lose either way. Is there still concern about rent-controlled apartment? Was yours an arranged marriage? I'm confused actually. Why will a death in her family delay divorce for a year? According to you, she does not function as most expect a wife to do and you want to divorce. Is there now someone else for you?


No she's from the States. Very white. I'm the one from South East Asia. She very probably didn't travel with her "friend". If I found one, I can't help but think of how many others she might have had. Only told after years had passed, after I asked for a divorce. Asked for a divorce separation once, then again after getting confirmation. Never trusted people much, except for her. Regretfully.

There are no wifely duties in my mind. She's free to do what she wants except betray me. She didn't want to relay more of her uncertainties to me for fear I would leave. In my mind, if you are uncertain, it should end.

I don't think I will get an honest answer about why she doesn't want a divorce. Likely has to do with her parents. Now that one has passed, I am not sure what might happen.

The rent control issue is more for her than me. Likely, she will keep it. I am more likely to move quit, hike around a few months (Most National Parks allows 30 days a year) and return to my home country for a long while. I'm not a citizen.



Diana7 said:


> Who died? Unless it was someone like a parent who she was very close to I cant see why you need to delay anything. I think you are looking for excuses.


You're probably right. I'm very much concerned with doing the right thing by her parents. A year of after the death feels more appropriate. I have fond memories of this one.

Brings a smile to my face to remember how they made sure I had plenty of drink and smokes in college. Very old fashioned.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Parasite said:


> The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity


You can find this in the Cheater's Handbook, chapter 19. It's similar to the one the used-car salesman tells you about the sawdust in the steering column. It's a "feature".



Parasite said:


> and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her.


ibid., chapter 13. After all, this alpha-male-paragon-of-sexual-attractiveness was completely impossible to resist. And, you, poor little beta-boy, should thank your lucky stars that your wife is such a shining example of fidelitous devotion, or else, you would be left to sit by your homely self while she followed her Prince charming to live happily ever after......




Parasite said:


> Goodness know who else she spent time with.


The Cheater's Handbook is quite clear about this, too. Dr. Phil must have written parts of it, because he says "...for every rat you see....there's 50 you don't...."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Parasite said:


> Feels like a divorce and walking away is the only way I know how to forgive. One of her parents died. Would be cruel to her and her remaining parent. We were all close.


As cruel as say, carrying on a long term affair, almost moving away with the guy, and then asking to open the marriage up?

I'd give her a month or two. Use the time to get your legal ducks in a row. End of Feb maybe you give her the paperwork and ask her to leave. Call your remaining in-law and explain to them what you're doing and why, and that you'll always love and respect them.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marduk said:


> get your legal ducks in a row.


Yep. Before you do anything. Anything at all, make sure of the legal ramifications of all your planned actions before you execute upon them.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Parasite said:


> The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity, and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her.


 She chickened out and then turned it into a personal triumph. Grandiosity much? My experience says - no kids? - Run. This is how she is - she can't change.



> Since then, there has been a close family death. Was going to ask for divorce again this month but the death in her family will delay me for at least another year.


 Why? Are you sure this is not an excuse for not taking action? If you really decide to divorce don't ask - present her with a _fait accompli_.


> With this death, there has been some behavior changes. I saw her use a vacuum cleaner in the house for the first time in a decade or so.
> 
> Instead of pure happiness, my sorry mind thought:
> Who's visiting the apartment?
> ...


 And you will have such fears until you part.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Divorce her, you don't need her permission quit being weak go and find the spine that got lost. Who gives a hoot if she vacuumed now, too much trash in the home. Bail out now, do your walking and go back to the mother land.

Time has come to stop being the marital police!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell her now you are divorcing her at the end of the year. Set it in motion and spend this year preparing your life for life without her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Parasite said:


> The only confirmation I have is an emotional affair (no evidence of sex) with a fellow grad school student. It was the "friend" that I was not to worry about. I only noticed the distance but attributed it to school work, reduced funds and poor employment prospects after graduating.
> 
> The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity, and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her. She must have thought that I would have been pleased, that she chose me after all. We were out a wine bar when she told this all to me.
> 
> ...


You will not get past this unless there is openness and honesty about how hurt you are over all this. This game you are playing is deadly. Either choose to meet it head on or let your marriage fizzle out cause that’s where it is going.
Perhaps try a few MC sessions and see where that takes you,?
Have you been a perfect spouse all along? Not talking about stuff is pointless at this stage. Just do it, see where the chips fall. How long have t
You had this resentment/bitterness, holding onto it, will do no good.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Parasite said:


> The only confirmation I have is an emotional affair (no evidence of sex) with a fellow grad school student. It was the "friend" that I was not to worry about. I only noticed the distance but attributed it to school work, reduced funds and poor employment prospects after graduating.
> 
> The story was presented to me as her triumph over adversity, and how she turned down that man's request to leave the country with her. She must have thought that I would have been pleased, that she chose me after all. We were out a wine bar when she told this all to me.
> 
> ...


Listen, you feel like you do because you rug swept the whole affair. You handled it improperly. Most people do the first time, esp being young... 

And, yes she was involved in a sexual affair, no doubt about it. She has lied to you from the very beginning. 

This is part of rug sweeping.

You need to divorce her. I think too much water under the bridge. 

Learn from your mistakes...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

is she willing to take a polygraph to demonstrate her side of the story ?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Without knowing all the backstory, I can, however, relate to the security audit situation (I did it for quite some time). And in hindsight, here's how I see it.

The length of time needed for surveillance is something you can't control. There just comes a time when you feel satisfied. Maybe you need 30 straight successes, maybe you need 300. But at some point, you get to a spot where you don't feel you need to watch anymore. Given all my time on this site, and having been through it, the average length of time seems to be between 1 year and 3 years of regular monitoring.

So, here's what you can control. This 1-3 year time frame, to me, isn't worth it for a shorter relationship, or one that wasn't all that great. If I didn't have 16 years of marriage invested, with tons of interwoven family matters, and 3 kids, I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did with the monitoring. Somehow, I made it to the other side, and it turned out to be the right decision, as our marriage is in way better shape today. But anything shorter than that, or if the relationship was shaky, or I had doubts along the way, there is no way I would repeat what I did. It was, exactly as you said, a devolving of my character, it altered my integrity, and I became more of a sleuthy person overall. I'd have preferred to not have gone through that change. I've seen it in other aspects of my life. It was a major sacrifice of my soul. But like I said, I see it as an unfortunate payment for the very good life I have today. I'm probably happier now than I've ever been.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Divorce and find someone that doesn't have this problem is a win - win.

Why not just do that?

Get out before she gets pregnant in an attempt to keep you.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Parasite said:


> Feels like a divorce and walking away is the only way I know how to forgive. One of her parents died. Would be cruel to her and her remaining parent. We were all close.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cruel is cheating.
Cruel is lying.
Cruel is a therapist blaming you for her cheating.


Cruel is not taking care of yourself and your well being.


A year is your excuse.


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## kettle (Oct 28, 2016)

Parasite said:


> How do you navigate trust rebuilding? It feels like a lose-lose situation.
> 
> 
> I don't want to spend the rest of my life running security audits on a partner.
> ...


Buddy you sound like me. Lots of excuses to not pull the trigger and end the relationship. As an old friend told me a long time ago "Sometimes a pair or dirty draws, seems better than no draws at all."


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Every day of your life "something " will come up that needs your attention- death in family, car issues, job issues etc. Its always easier to put out those fires and they will grab your attention over what is going on with your wife because no matter the intensity those issues are much easier to deal with then leaving your wife. Next thing you know it's many years later with many more unanswered questions on top of the already unanswered questions with your wife.

You have already disconnected to a point not celebrating relationship events and it will be difficult to impossible to come back. Her actions are eating at you and it won't get better. At least separate for now to help clear your thinking. You're here for a reason follow your gut.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You rugswept and now it's likely too late to reap the benefits of an honest disclosure from her. The time for the healing effects of honesty is well and truly passed.

Set a deadline for yourself, e.g., six months from now, at which point you will file for divorce. This way you know you are 'taking action,' even if it's only planning in your head.

It sounds like she had a long-term A and felt like she was the prize with multiple men wanting and needing her. It's intoxicating to the ego to think this. When she confessed to you, she was still deep in this egomaniacal mindset and was only concerned about congratulating herself on having navigated herself out of the A. She didn't care about your feelings. You were a cardboard cutout in the background of her wonderful life.

It also sounds like it's a dealbreaker for you. So, break the deal. It's OK to decide that and follow through. Believe me, if you hit 60 and realize that you've been living for her happiness and security, you will be pissed at yourself.


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