# My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex



## harrison

I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.

My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.

I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.

One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.

I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.

I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.

Any advice?


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## alte Dame

It's very possible that the A hasn't ended. What are you doing to verify that there really is no contact?


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## walkonmars

harrison said:


> ...One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> ...


Wow -
Apparently she isn't really being totally honest with you - you must admit. 

If she felt passion with him - why isn't she with him? Is he married? Does he have children? My guess is that from the day you found out until the day she "ended it" she begged him to take her in and become a real couple. He probably refused because he just wanted sex. 

Even now, she is remaining faithful to him by putting you off. She will do this for a few months while she tries to make him jealous. She's playing you in a disgusting way. 

You asked for advice? Kick her out.


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## the guy

Ya my old lady said the same thing with regard to me no longer loving her and when she was screwing around. But once I confronted her and she saw how much i really cared we were all over each other.

It just doesn't;t make sence for her to say " I thought you didn't love me" then it goes to "no passion"...so which is it?

She screwed around cuz she was looking for a bandaid for a loveless marriage or she screwed around on you cuz she was looking for passion???

One or the other here, you would think...I mean if it was cuz she didn't think you loved her then now that you proved her wrong then that statement is pull crap.

From were I'm sitting she screwed around on you cuz she wanted to get laid by someone else and the only reason she still isn;t getting laid is it is in her best interest to stop and listen to you.

I'm calling it a marriage of convenience and phuck that!!!! Tell her your not her plan B .

I think when you first confronted her she ment to say " I don't love you" not "you didn't love me"


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## warlock07

is this mutual friend married?


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## the guy

The last couple of replies seem to be right on.

She is just not into you any more and for all the many reason she stays in the M it has nothing to do with her husband, but her own self needs.

Sure it could be OM dumbed her and won't take her in. Maybe its all the trappings of a marriage. hell it could be her reputation is at stake at the country club, or even finacial reason. 

One thing is for sure it looks like for what ever reason your old lady is not ready to bail....but IMHO once all the star aliegn and it works for her she will be gone lickity split.


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## the guy

I surprised even after the exposure your wife wants to stick around?

What kind of intel are you getting from the keylogger, voice activated recorder, GPS, cell phone logs?


You did expose and you are verifing...aren't you?


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## harrison

I am almost 100% positive that she has had no contact with him. Courtesy of a keylogger on her computer and gps tracker on her car.

She says that she feels disgusting due to having sex with the other man (who is not married), and that she doesn't want to be with me again until she feels passionate about me.

I wouldn't be honest unless I admitted I have really drug her through the mud about the affair. I would go a few days without an outburst, then something would trigger my emotions. I have called her some pretty bad things....

I really am working to stop the love busters, and it's getting easier. I just wish that I could see some small improvements from her.


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## MattMatt

She might need time. Seriously. When my wife ended her affair she did not want sex for a while. But we got back on track, as it were.


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## walkonmars

If she's *so disgusted* with herself why did it take her a MONTH to break things off with him? 

I think you are desperate to keep your family. Does she know you've placed a key logger on the pc? Does she know about the gps? 

Place a Voice Activated Recorder strapped to the bottom of her car seat and secured with heavy duty velcro. DO NOT TELL her you've done this. 

Does she work? My sense is that she's in love with the OM and will bide her time remaining chaste for him.


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## harrison

Yes, I did expose the affair. It was an easy choice after I found out that my oldest daughter figured it out almost one year before me. When my daughter told me, she was in tears and said that she hadn't known what to to..., she said she didn't want to make it worse... I was crushed for her. What a thing to learn about your mother.

My wife did answer almost all of my questions about the affair. She seems to be honest enough about everything at this point.


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## chillymorn

well my opinion is your throwing good time after bad times!

she won't even kiss you.What is she doing to make things better? counselling?therapy? self help books? or just hiding the affair better until you calm down.

At the least you both need some mc.


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## jnj express

Why would you even WANT to have sex with her, much less touch her

She has out and out told you, you are nothing to her anymore, if ever

The passion she feels for her lover, she once had with you---all those many years ago----now many years later, with real world problems working to destroy the mge, and with her false/phony justification, of her A.---and mainly, probably, with boredom, same old, same old---setting in---I am sure she has little or no passion left

It very well could have been re-kindled, had she had the guts to sit you down, and tell you what was bothering her---instead she gave herself to another man

The act of sex is the same, as far as basics-----the foreplay, and the attitude are what stir the brain/chemicals/emotions, and bring on the passion----unless physically he is superior to you in the tools needed to perform---passion is something in her mind

Remember she was living an exciting, role akin to being a spy or an operative, as she was planning and performing deceitful deeds---these all fit into the passion--

--him being better than you---I doubt it

Again tho---I would ask you---why would you even want to touch her---she has "dissed you" for at least 2 yrs---treated you like garbage, lied to you, and even now treats you with disdain, and more disrespect------isn't it time you gave her, her come--uppance, and treated her the way she deserves to be treated


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## workindad

So, she can only have sex with another man, not you ... her husband. I'm not sure what kind of reconciliation/marriage you have- sexless I guess, at least for you- not her. I'm not trying to be mean- just direct.

Aside from triggering and expressing your anger, what consequence has she faced? 

I would also buy a VAR, very cheap and effective- There could be a burner phone, etc that you don't know about. You didn't know about the affair before, she could just have improved her skills at covering her tracks.

Ask her about a polygraph, judge her reaction- check around where they can be done and how much so you can sound like you've done your homework. You may be surprised at the remembrance of details or admission of continued affair activity.

I hope you get this fixed.

Good luck
wd


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## walkonmars

harrison said:


> Yes,... It was an easy choice after I found out that my oldest daughter figured it out almost one year before me. When my daughter told me, she was in tears and said that she hadn't known what to to..., ...


hmmm, ^^^^this could be the reason your wife is staying. It's obvious she has no feelings for you and loves the OM (forget what she SAYS and pay attention to what she DOES). 

She may well be playing the *martyr* to make her daughters happy. Just wait till they leave the roost. That's the longest she'll stay. 

She won't even kiss you ---- she's disgusted alright, she may well be disgusted with herself for not having the courage to leave you.


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## harrison

Mattmatt, How long did it take your wife? What were her reasons for not wanting sex?

It seems I may have described my wife and what she has said in such a way to make everyone think she is an absolute witch. She is not. She does feel remorseful, and has said so.


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## HarryDoyle

Everything above is right on! I can't explain it (yes I know the clinical term) but if it wasn't for sex, my R would not even be possible. It's allowed me to show my wife just how sexy and attractive she really is to me (what she was trying to find in the OM) and allows me also to take back what is rightfully mine (that's not chauvinistic, I also belong to her). It has allowed her to show me she has really changed and that she finds me sexually attractive (since she pretty much ripped my self esteem to shreds!!!). It's allowed us to enjoy an intimacy that only sex well allow. My WW has gone way above and beyond in this and I truly believe that she HAS changed and does find me sexually attractive still. And from the way she acts, she really believes that I find her attractive as well. I don't think I'd still be here if she would have cut me off. She used sex as a weapon against me with the A, I'll be danged if she uses against me now. She knows this and hasn't.
To me something just ain't right with your situation.


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## walkonmars

harrison said:


> ... She does feel remorseful, and has said so...


Harrison, I don't want to beat a dead horse. And no, I don't think she's a witch. I think she's dishonest. I think she's deceitful. But the bottom line is that you have to evaluate and reconcile what *she says* with *what she does*. 

You had no clue that FOR MONTHS (years?) she was deceiving you. 

Ask her if her remorse is for being caught. 

Ask her if she regrets the affair. 

Does she work? Does she occasion to see the OM for legitimate reasons?


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## the guy

harrison said:


> Mattmatt, How long did it take your wife? What were her reasons for not wanting sex?
> 
> It seems I may have described my wife and what she has said in such a way to make everyone think she is an absolute witch. She is not. She does feel remorseful, and has said so.


Sorry my man but your old lady has to show some degree of submission towards her husband when it comes to having sex with him.

I'm sure your chick is a nice person, but the point is she is not nice to you and her remorse is lacking in many poster opinion. And that makes her look bad in our eyes.

All us betrayed don't like her cuz she is one of them  so we all have been there and some have even gone through what you are going through only to find out the the affair went deeper underground and as month go by they catch their old lady doing it again with the same guy ( in my case it was years with a different guy) using a burner phone or even meeting once a month instead of once a week......

We are not bashing your chick as much as we are warning you of the posibbility of the emotional toture continueing for what....for you to find out months from now that she found someone else or went deeper under ground with the same dude.


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## seasalt

Are you going to hang around until she decides on some other guy to feel passion for? You're shorting changing yourself and passing along a horrible example for your children who have taken their lesson from their mother or they would have informed you of her actions.

Two years of giving someone else the feeling she should have given you. How much longer do you anticipate waiting?

Whatever you've been doing for the last four months hasn't worked for you. Time to take a different approach.

Good luck,

Seasalt


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## the guy

Thorburn's thread comes to mind...check it out...its titled something like " I'm back and it gets worse"


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## the guy

HarryDoyle said:


> Everything above is right on! I can't explain it (yes I know the clinical term) but if it wasn't for sex, my R would not even be possible. It's allowed me to show my wife just how sexy and attractive she really is to me (what she was trying to find in the OM) and allows me also to take back what is rightfully mine (that's not chauvinistic, I also belong to her). It has allowed her to show me she has really changed and that she finds me sexually attractive (since she pretty much ripped my self esteem to shreds!!!). It's allowed us to enjoy an intimacy that only sex well allow. My WW has gone way above and beyond in this and I truly believe that she HAS changed and does find me sexually attractive still. And from the way she acts, she really believes that I find her attractive as well. I don't think I'd still be here if she would have cut me off. She used sex as a weapon against me with the A, I'll be danged if she uses against me now. She knows this and hasn't.
> To me something just ain't right with your situation.


:iagree:
If I could spell and be better with my words I would have posted the exact same thing!


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## Ovid

My advice is simply to file and see what happens. It sounds like the A is still on, even if it's only in her head.


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## harrison

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I'll keep my mind open to what you are all saying. I will install a VAR in her car.

I will have to take a different approach and see what happens, but I will definitely keep my eyes open.


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## the guy

Don't forget the velcrow tape...you don't want that thing sliding around.

And tape up in the seat not on the floorboard.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

harrison said:


> I will have to take a different approach and see what happens, but I will definitely keep my eyes open.


Different from what we're advising, or different from what you've been doing?


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## MattMatt

jnj express said:


> *Why would you even WANT to have sex with her, much less touch her*
> 
> She has out and out told you, you are nothing to her anymore, if ever
> 
> The passion she feels for her lover, she once had with you---all those many years ago----now many years later, with real world problems working to destroy the mge, and with her false/phony justification, of her A.---and mainly, probably, with boredom, same old, same old---setting in---I am sure she has little or no passion left
> 
> It very well could have been re-kindled, had she had the guts to sit you down, and tell you what was bothering her---instead she gave herself to another man
> 
> The act of sex is the same, as far as basics-----the foreplay, and the attitude are what stir the brain/chemicals/emotions, and bring on the passion----unless physically he is superior to you in the tools needed to perform---passion is something in her mind
> 
> Remember she was living an exciting, role akin to being a spy or an operative, as she was planning and performing deceitful deeds---these all fit into the passion--
> 
> --him being better than you---I doubt it
> 
> Again tho---I would ask you---why would you even want to touch her---she has "dissed you" for at least 2 yrs---treated you like garbage, lied to you, and even now treats you with disdain, and more disrespect------isn't it time you gave her, her come--uppance, and treated her the way she deserves to be treated


*Same reason I wanted to hold and cuddle my wife and make love with her after her affair. I loved her. *Still do, too.:smthumbup:


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## phillybeffandswiss

harrison said:


> I am almost 100% positive that she has had no contact with him. Courtesy of a keylogger on her computer and gps tracker on her car.


As we found out recently, gps and keylogger don't mean 100% proof of anything.

Go read RDMU's long thread.

Cliff notes:
Sure the affair wasn't at his house.
No keylogger clues.
GPS showed no abnormal travel.
Thought he was overreacting.

Conclusion?
Hidden texting app.
His wife had an affair for at least a year and a half. A VAR helped, the GPS and keylogger did not. She traveled to the store, confirmed at least once, to pick up her AP.


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## aug

Perhaps your wandering wife caught a permanent STD?


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## thatbpguy

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


A 2 year betrayal is unbelievable. It shows just how little she thinks of you.

As to the no sex routine, my wife did the exact same thing. It turns out it was because she was still in love with her lover. I found crumpled up love letters in the back of the fireplace. Then she started another betrayal. 

Sad to say, but I strongly believe you have lost her forever. You can hang on until the bitter end or just end it now.


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## JCD

I understand why she might feel disconnected.

That being said, I am not impressed with her. She said things which were pretty damned hurtful and if that was the tone she took, was almost purposeful.

And frankly, I could give a flying fvck if she 'feels passion' for you. She neglected your needs for two years and now she can't throw you a bone? Really?

I don't think she's in contact with him. I think she still has him on a little alter in her heart and hasn't been able to let him go.

As long as that state of affairs remains, she will not reconnect with you. And that relationship will always be unfair to you because it didn't suffer from dogs throwing up on the carpet, budgetary problems, and that nasty thing you said fifteen years ago.

They have been constantly dating for two years and on their best behavior.

One way to fix this is to have her tell you EVERYTHING. What music they listened to. Where they screwed. Where they had dinner. What hotels they used.

An outsider seeing how tawdry and cheap this was removes the pink lights from the relationship. He becomes a man who could barely spring for a Motel 6, not Lance Studly, Charming Rouge.


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## jnj express

I am sorry---but I don't agree in this---why is everyone so worried whether he gets sex or not

Why does he even WANT sex from a woman, who was his so-called wife---who gave herself to another man, and basically has told her H, to go to he*l---I have no respect for you, and I don't want to share one of the basic parts of mge with you---that being the physical satisfaction

Why not just say "screw you" right back to her---I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole, cuz basically you are filthy due to your lover touching you all over, and being inside of you

One who thinks of nothing but following his own wife's, lover, sex wise----can NOT HAVE ANY SELF RESPECT----sorry that some will disagree with me---but it is just the way I feel about it


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## Count of Monte Cristo

thatbpguy said:


> A 2 year betrayal is unbelievable. It shows just how little she thinks of you.
> 
> As to the no sex routine, my wife did the exact same thing. It turns out it was because she was still in love with her lover. I found crumpled up love letters in the back of the fireplace. Then she started another betrayal.
> 
> Sad to say, but I strongly believe you have lost her forever. You can hang on until the bitter end or just end it now.


:iagree:

My ex had a two year EA/PA with a former BF and completely checked out of the marriage.

She not only abandoned me but also her two children and beloved pets.

Your wife is NOT coming back.

Think of the most repulsive woman that you know and try to imagine making love to her. This is the same repulsion that your wife now feels for you.

Take your power back and send her packing,.


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## the guy

aug said:


> Perhaps your wandering wife caught a permanent STD?


Again another variable as to why WW choose a passionless marriage over a passion filled OM....I think her A plan fell apart one way or another, but with some recon a colvert op will yield to exactly what you a dealing with.

Once you get some real facts you can stop relying on the words from a women that you would have never thought in a million years would do this to you.

I think you owe it to your self to stop getting decieved with all this " I thought you didn't love me" or " the passion isn't there"...next it will be "I'm a sex addict and need help and sleeping with will just confuse me"....

Her line of bull crap could go on and on so I comment you on doing one of the hardest things one has to do , and that is verifing the person you love.

I am so sorry you are here and have to do these things to protect your self. Its a shame that the women you love has to now protect you physicaly by not having sex until a STD test to come back, if this is in fact the case.


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## EleGirl

harrison,

There are 2 books that can be of great help to you: "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs". They are both by Dr. Harley. Read them in that order. Ask your wife to read them as well. Then do the things the books suggest. 

When a person feels out of love with their spouse they forget the passion that once existed. It's a trick the human mind seems to play. Once the passion is re-ignited the memory of the love and passion returns. The love and passion can be restored.


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## Chaparral

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bear in mind my background, but I've seen 2 schools of thought on how a man would react to his cheating wife. 1) Just as you described it, the wife becomes "unclean", "defiled", "soiled", etc...and as a man you would be losing your self respect if you decided to immediately begin having sex with a defiled wife. 2) Another instinct that I've read about is that a man who has a wife that cheated on him wants to "reclaim" his territory. He wants to have sex right away because he needs to "show" that he will mark his territory, reclaim what is his, show his wife who the better lover is...etc...
> 
> My uninformed opinion is that scenario 1 is more based in the upper level thought processes that we have based on years of civilization Anderson institutions instilled into our minds. We have a sense of justice, virtue, morals, etc. Scenario 2 is a cry back to our more primitive days when we "ate what we killed", where we "stake out our territory" and we "mark our property". It's like when a young male adult lion challenges the pride leader. He doesn't think the lionesses were "defiled" by the older male lion, he is "thinking" that they are now mine and I'm marking my property.


Either way, the wayward wife should go along with what he wants. I can't remember a time here that it did not mean the affair was still going on.

A woman doesn't have to have passion for a particular man to have sex with him. She has barred the door.

I think you should do the 180 and go into super investigative mode. Look for a burner phone.

A var in the car, velcroed under the front seat and one in the house where shd is likely to use the phone. She may talk to om or a friend about what she is doing. Check texts, phone apps, facebook, emails, gps her car and phone.

Has she given yoh total access to her phone, email, etc?

Could be she is in total shock about her daughter knowing about the affair for so long. Have you discussed this? How are they getting along? She may be feeling like a dirty ............fill in the blank.


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## carolinadreams

Pack her bags. I don't always want to have sex nor does my wife, but if the other is inclined we give it a go.

That's almost a double betrayal. Send her on her way, and find a woman who wants to be your partner in every sense of the word. It doesn't matter what she says, it matters what she does.


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## Juicer

Remorse can be said, but you should also see it. 
So far, doesn't sound like she is showing it, but is saying she feels it. 

I would suggest start pulling the 180. If she won't respond to what you are doing right now, then you change it up. 

Also, if she isn't feeling passion for you, I have a feeling she didn't want the affair to end. It ended because the dream died. Not because she wanted to. 

My XW ended her affair, because she eventually got out of the fog. And she wanted to make it up to me. 
Your wife lost her dream, and wants her fall back plan. I think she feels bad she hurt you, but I don't think she cares enough to love you like a wife. She loves you, just not the way you love her back. 

Take time to figure out what you want. Divorce isn't a fix-all solution. But filing might wake her up and force her to realize you won't wait for her to fall back in love when you weren't the one to stray. 
But figure out if you really want to reconcile, or if you want to leave. Because you are not that far off DDay. 

Also, just because you called her some nasty names, is not a good reason for her to lose the passion. I called my XW everything you can think of, and probably a few new ones. And she was wanting me every night in bed regardless. 

I almost wonder...
IS your wife trying to rugsweep the affair entirely?


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## WorkingOnMe

Bottom line is you are not yet in reconciliation. I'd bet money she's still doing him but even if she's not she's not reconciling. The best course is to continue disconnecting and make it clear you're preparing to leave.


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## wiigirl

carolinadreams said:


> Pack her bags. I don't always want to have sex nor does my wife, but if the other is inclined we give it a go.
> 
> That's almost a double betrayal. Send her on her way, and find a woman who wants to be your partner in every sense of the word. It doesn't matter what she says, it matters what she does.


:iagree:


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## tom67

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My ex had a two year EA/PA with a former BF and completely checked out of the marriage.
> 
> She not only abandoned me but also her two children and beloved pets.
> 
> Your wife is NOT coming back.
> 
> Think of the most repulsive woman that you know and try to imagine making love to her. This is the same repulsion that your wife now feels for you.
> 
> Take your power back and send her packing,.


:iagree::iagree:


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## carpenoctem

*Harrison:*

Let me just reiterate a few negatives, vis a vis your wife, and the situation you are in as of now, from the viewpoint of a person looking from outside-in:

You discovered her affair on Jan 2, and she ‘ended’ it only on Jan 31, when you threatened to leave. Till you threatened to leave, she continued the affair right under your nose, and not very covertly, right?

*For not stopping the affair when you discovered it / for not at least pretending to stop in order to salvage your hurt a little / to show you at least SOME respect as her spouse, as Wife – D-Minus.*


How do you visualize her thought process during those 29 days?

Experimenting the possibility of an alternate life with him?

Examining whether you could be slowly driven into accepting the life of a cuckold?

Desperately grasping whatever passion and sex she could gather, while it lasted?




Now, add on the fact that she continued the affair after learning that she was outed by her own daughter (so I presume). 

*For not feeling ashamed enough to pretend to put the affair on hold until her daughter’s shame / the home front is somewhat assuaged, as Mother --D-Minus.*




She has told you that she feels NO passion for you, and that she has never felt for you the kind of passion she has felt for the Other Man. Usually, when the affair is discovered, the Wayward Wife tries to (lie) to the husband that it’s not him, she still loves him, finds him hot, the OM was not all that good in bed, the OM was less endowed and no comparison to the husband, etc. But not your wife. AND she has barred sex (with you), until she feels like it.

*For not feeling grateful that her spouse still wants her sexually after she freelanced it outside for 2 years, and for not trying to respond to his sexual needs at least as an amelioratory gesture, even if she does not feel like it now, as a Woman – D-Minus.*


But these are quick, simplistic, superfluous, unilaterally judgemental bits from someone looking in from outside, on the basis of a post. As the person living inside, you can evaluate the positives in her / in continuing with her, and permute. (Factoring in YOUR negatives too. But you seem to be well-aware of them).

And if she has checked out of the marriage emotionally, none of this is relevant.* To court her back into a love bond now will be more difficult than courting her the first time (the first time around, YOU also had the new-car charm the OM has over her now).
* Possible, but difficult.


Note:

Your marriage has been ‘very rocky’ for the last three years, you said. During those three years, you and she have had many fights / arguments, and you have said many hurtful things to her.

Now, if we permute in the fact that she has been in an affair for 2 of those 3 bad years, how much would that factor have affected / altered her demeanour, body language and articulation, and triggered bad reactions from you?

Try replaying some of those arguments, and see whether she WAS baiting you a lot. A Wayward Wife would want to convince herself periodically that the main reason why she is cheating on her husband is that he is not treating her right.

Often, she would not ALLOW the husband to treat her nice if/when he tries, to sustain that rationalization, and to not feel like a bad person.

So, you may be giving somewhat undue weightage to your own bad behavior, in all these.

On the other hand, if that indeed was the case (that you made her feel unloved for long), showing it NOW might make her think “WHY NOW, after I have turned myself into cheater, and shamed myself in front of my daughter?”

*You will show her your love, and she will start having sex, and the old song will be played again*… …unfortunately, it won’t work that way. You have just stepped on the tail of a hidden dragon. Be ready for lot more drama.


----------



## BobSimmons

harrison said:


> I am almost 100% positive that she has had no contact with him. Courtesy of a keylogger on her computer and gps tracker on her car.
> 
> She says that she feels disgusting due to having sex with the other man (who is not married), and that she doesn't want to be with me again until she feels passionate about me.
> 
> I wouldn't be honest unless I admitted I have really drug her through the mud about the affair. I would go a few days without an outburst, then something would trigger my emotions. I have called her some pretty bad things....
> 
> I really am working to stop the love busters, and it's getting easier. I just wish that I could see some small improvements from her.


Which one is it? She disgusted by her actions or she doesn't feel "passion" for you and no one has made her feel like OM...the two don't marry up.

She wasn't disgusted for two years, in fact by her own admission she loved it, no one made her feel like he did. The painful truth is if you had sex she'd be thinking of him. How it doesn't compare to him, I'm sure that would be an even more sickening blow to your heart and ego.

If time is your ally then don't force it. She has to want you again. Be independent, start doing things for yourself, eat right, get in shape. In a sense this is still all about her.


----------



## TRy

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it.


 Wow, she continued the affair for weeks after you caught her. Talk about cold blooded disrespect for you and your marriage. 



harrison said:


> He was a mutual friend we have known for four years.





harrison said:


> We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years.


 She meets him 4 years ago, starts picking fights with you 3 years ago, and starts cheating on you at least 2 years ago. It should be obvious that her feelings for the other man are why you two started having problems. I also bet that the fights and the cheating are actually closer together than you think, meaning fights less than 3 years and cheating more than 2 years.



harrison said:


> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.


 She is in love with him and not you, and will not so much as kiss you because that would be cheating on the other man.

If she is not still cheating with him now, she will soon be. She will not give him up because “She wants to be happy and fulfilled”. Your marriage is over. She is just sticking around for the children and so that when she does leave you she can claim that it had nothing to do with the other man. Sorry that you are here.


----------



## cledus_snow

i can't shake the feeling that you are, and ALWAYS will be second best when compared to this guy.

is that how you want to live the rest of your life..... as the consolation prize?


i might've missed it but was this OM married?


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Whatever her reasons, the fact that she "is passionate" with this other guy that she has had an affair with and "doesn't feel any passion" for you even though she feels a lot of remorse tells me that she left your marriage completely.

This is adding hurt on top of hurt in one of the worst ways you can. It's another version of the ILYBINILWY crap. If that's the way she feels, then it's been over for a long time, and waiting for her to come around will rob you of any shred of self-worth you have left.

She doesn't want to return unless she feels the passion again. It's time for you to take control of the situation. Don't let her stay separated so she can figure it all out (and probably stay in contact with the OM). She's ignoring your feelings again.

Tell her it's over and that you're filing for divorce. Serve her papers, and let her start to think about the reality of a future without you. You can always change your mind down the road


----------



## JCD

PreRaphaelite said:


> Whatever her reasons, the fact that she "is passionate" with this other guy that she has had an affair with and "doesn't feel any passion" for you even though she feels a lot of remorse tells me that she left your marriage completely.
> 
> This is adding hurt on top of hurt in one of the worst ways you can. It's another version of the ILYBINILWY crap. If that's the way she feels, then it's been over for a long time, and waiting for her to come around will rob you of any shred of self-worth you have left.
> 
> She doesn't want to return unless she feels the passion again. It's time for you to take control of the situation. Don't let her stay separated so she can figure it all out (and probably stay in contact with the OM). She's ignoring your feelings again.
> 
> Tell her it's over and that you're filing for divorce. Serve her papers, and let her start to think about the reality of a future without you. You can always change your mind down the road


As a Wayward, I can tell you that the spouse does disconnect. Even three months later as a male, I was not exactly excited to have sex with the wife.

That being said, it CAN come back. But she has to want it back.

Which leads to totally contradictory insights: does he want her to stay just for his paycheck if he shocks and awes her with a divorce decree?

She can fake the passion and how do you trust her?

It's a sorry situation, but it can't be helped.


----------



## MattMatt

harrison said:


> Mattmatt, How long did it take your wife? What were her reasons for not wanting sex?
> 
> It seems I may have described my wife and what she has said in such a way to make everyone think she is an absolute witch. She is not. She does feel remorseful, and has said so.


It was a couple of months. I must admit that when we did start having sex again I had performance problems as I wondered if the OM was a better sex partner than me.

I don't think your wife is a witch. Just confused and a bit broken up by what she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

I would do a 180 with her. I know she is (sort of) remorseful, but she doesn't want you because you are there. She HAS you.

So mentally DON'T BE THERE.

I started going to the gym regularly recently.

First this excited my wife's interest. Second SHE felt frumpy and undesirable and started initiating and working out herself.

Try that. It will have benefits for you no matter what happens. She knows the old you. Make a new you...one she doesn't automatically have access to.


----------



## barbados

harrison said:


> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality.
> 
> Any advice?


She has never experienced that level of passion with you, because she has never had an affair WITH YOU. Affair sex is based on the fantasy of doing something illicit and forbidden.

The hypersexuality you are feeling is called hysterical bonding is is very common when a spouse finds out about an A.

There is never an excuse for an A. While you & your wife share a 50/50 responsibility for the marriage and its issues,
*You WW is 100% at fault for the A.* You need to understand this fact. *You WW is 100% at fault for the A.*

Also remember this : Your WW has been cheating on *YOUR CHILDREN* for 2 years also !


----------



## barbados

harrison said:


> She says that she feels disgusting due to having sex with the other man (who is not married), and that she doesn't want to be with me again until she feels passionate about me.


You said this was a 2 year A. When did she stop having sex with you ? Was it the whole last 2 years, or only since she has been outed ?


----------



## harrison

I do agree with the many assessments here that my wife completely disrespected, abused, and trashed me as a husband. I also agree that she did check out of the marriage; she told me so. It was obviously how she justified doing what she did. I have had many thoughts back to those arguments we've had, and again, I agree that I was baited. Some of them were over such trivial things and she just wouldn't stop until I was so completely frustrated I would blow.

She does admit that she was very wrong, and is ashamed of the affair. She is ashamed that she didn't end it when I first discovered it. She does show remorse, just not with physical affection.

I will do the 180, continue to watch her very closely, and see what happens. I love her. So, despite what she has done to me, I do not want to end my marriage, but as I have told her already, she gets no more chances.

So, while I do respect all of your opinions, I do not want to divorce at this point. I have heard from a couple of you that I should be patient about the sex, and I have been (mostly).

I have read on marriagebuilders that for women it takes about six months to regain desire for the husband after her affair is over. I would be very interested to hear from women on this subject. I realize that my wife could still do it with me regardless of passion. In fact, during the heat of an argument about it she told me she would, but she also made it clear that she would not mentally be there. In light of that, I decided to wait.

So let me be clear: I am waiting for her to WANT to have sex. Not just to lie there and let me take it.


----------



## harrison

barbados said:


> You said this was a 2 year A. When did she stop having sex with you ? Was it the whole last 2 years, or only since she has been outed ?


She stopped having sex only after Dday, but it had been slowly getting farther and farther apart for about six months.


----------



## harrison

She has told me that they had sex exactly four times, beginning in September.


----------



## warlock07

a 2 year affair and they had sex 4 times ? Would it matter to you if you find out that they had sex (a number much larger than 4) times ? 

What at this point is a deal breaker for you ? What are you willing to put up with ?

She stopped her affair once you were ready to move on without her. It wasn't a coincidence. 

You are willing to reconcile on her terms, at her pace and now you are waiting for her to initiate physical intimacy. It is not a coincidence either. 


If nothing, read the threads over here. You will notice some patterns.


----------



## azteca1986

Why did the affair continue for a month after you discovered it?

Most importantly are you sure now it's over? Has she broken off all contact with the OM. Are you monitoring her for now.

If you don't want to divorce her, that's fine - your call, of course, but to have any hope of getting past this, you need to be sure that the affair is over.


----------



## Samus

How did the affair happen? How did they meet, what exactly caused it to happen?

Did she go out with friends? Was it after work? Was it during lunch time? Is it a co-worker? 

It would help to elaborate a bit more of how these things ocurred in the first place. There is no reason for a spouse to cheat, even if they are being neglected. Divorce should be the last option, and cheating should be none of them. 

In this situation I would not reconcile, but I would never reconcile with a cheater. That is just how I am built. I would just have joint custody of our two girls. I rather not live in misery. 

I give alot of respect to the guys that do reconcile, but it really boils down to who you are.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



harrison said:


> She has told me that they had sex exactly four times, beginning in September.


A two year affair and they had sex only four times. No way friend. That's trickle truth at it's finest.


----------



## Toffer

harison,

Your wife is saying she is extremely remorseful and you're taking her at her word. As many will tell you, words are cheap. It's actions that count and she seems to be coming up short on that

As an outsider looking in, I can only guess that she wants to R not because she loves YOU but she loves the lifestyle you provide for her. She isn't having sex with you because she's saving herself for her OM and doesn't want to cheat on him by being with her husband.

I would let her know that the only way to move forward would be for her to take a polygraph so that you can be reassured that there is no contact and that she actually wants to be with you.

Sorry but I also agree that if this was going on for 2 years, they sure as heck have had sex more than 4 times. No man is going to take the type of risks involved with a married woman if he isn't getting laid. Ask that in the poly too!

She's telling you only what she thinks she has to (trickle truth). She'll later tell you that she only told you half truths to spare you. 

Look deeper. As others have said, keylogger on the PC, VAR in the car, GPS the car too.

Sorry but I would be shocked if this iceberg wasn't alot larger than what you're seeing on the surface


----------



## bfree

One other thing Harrison. Affair sex is almost always more passionate than married sex. Affairs are by their very nature fantasy. The illicit naughty sex in an affair usually allows the person to act out of character and releases any inhibitions that they might normally have. She could do all those nasty things that she would never do when in her normal role as wife and mother. What you have to realize is that she will never feel that level of passion for anyone in a real relationship ever. There were no children, no finances, no household chores, no responsibilities. All of those things that are present in real life are still always in the back of your mind even during sex. Add the fact that they only ever showed each other their best sides and of course there was mega passion. She never got to hear him fart and burp and throw up when he was sick. He never got to see her sitting on the toilet, changing a tampon, or experience that lovely morning breath and bed head that you get every day. She was Angelina Jolie and he was Brad Pitt, the actor and actress not the real life version. If she's clinging to that than she's dumber than dumb because it was a dream and nothing more. Time for her to wake up.


----------



## tom67

You can always stop the divorce if she comes around but I would file to shock her out of the fog.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Two yr Affair, Only four times they had sex and OP is buying this.

OP is in thick BS fog and he is not realizing through what he is being dragged by his wife and OM. I think the A is still running underground or may have halted for a while for OP to cool down. 

He may realise one day but it may be too late.........

OP she is not remorseful, she is regretful for getting caught dont misinterept this as remorse. If she was remorseful and needed you she might have been doing anything you ask for, including sex.

I know you love her but she is not in love with you. You have been in a one sided open marriage for two yrs and you are still in that.

Kick her out, Get tested for STDs, Expose to all, File for Divorce. let she find the passion for you and chase you for Reconciliation.


----------



## walkonmars

When my son was in middle school his science teacher gave him a taped up shoebox. In the box were several items. His task was to determine the number of item that were in the box and to try to establish their identity without breaking the seal. It was an exercise in observational skills.

You need to sharpen those skills. At the moment you're taking her word as to what is/was in the box without paying attention. It doesn't take much to tell if there are 4 bbs or dozens. You seem ready to accept that the rattle of dozens is actually made by 4 because she said so.

There's lots more in that shoebox. But if you want to know what's in there, you're going to have to rattle it. And rattle it lots of times. Sometimes rapidly, sometimes slowly. Don't jump to conclusions without a thorough examination - I think that's all we're recommending.


----------



## bfree

tom67 said:


> You can always stop the divorce if she comes around but I would file to shock her out of the fog.


I totally agree. She needs a wakeup call asap.

Harrison there is so much advice that you could be receiving to help you with this situation. Relationship advice, sexual advice, etc. But the most important advice for you at this stage is to take a stand. Even if you don't want to file for divorce at the moment you should at least acknowledge that it is a definite course of action that you WILL follow at some point. I find it interesting that she says she fell into an affair because of your inattentiveness and now she is in essence refusing your attention. I don't see her as remorseful at all. I see her as having wistful feelings for her lover and her affair. She isn't sorry she had an affair. She is sorry she got caught and is now embarrassed.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

harrison said:


> I do agree with the many assessments here that my wife completely disrespected, abused, and trashed me as a husband. I also agree that she did check out of the marriage; she told me so. It was obviously how she justified doing what she did. I have had many thoughts back to those arguments we've had, and again, I agree that I was baited. Some of them were over such trivial things and she just wouldn't stop until I was so completely frustrated I would blow.
> 
> She does admit that she was very wrong, and is ashamed of the affair. She is ashamed that she didn't end it when I first discovered it. She does show remorse, just not with physical affection.
> 
> I will do the 180, continue to watch her very closely, and see what happens. I love her. So, despite what she has done to me, I do not want to end my marriage, but as I have told her already, she gets no more chances.
> 
> So, while I do respect all of your opinions, I do not want to divorce at this point. I have heard from a couple of you that I should be patient about the sex, and I have been (mostly).
> 
> I have read on marriagebuilders that for women it takes about six months to regain desire for the husband after her affair is over. I would be very interested to hear from women on this subject. I realize that my wife could still do it with me regardless of passion. In fact, during the heat of an argument about it she told me she would, but she also made it clear that she would not mentally be there. In light of that, I decided to wait.
> 
> So let me be clear: I am waiting for her to WANT to have sex. Not just to lie there and let me take it.


:slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap:


----------



## LongWalk

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap::slap:


This post is right, unfortunately.

Someone pass the Count a bottle of aspirin.


----------



## bfree

LongWalk said:


> This post is right, unfortunately.
> 
> Someone pass the Count a bottle of aspirin.


Harrison, you do realize that a large part of what makes affair partners and affair sex exciting is that the AP does exactly what you say you don't want to do. Her lover TOOK her. He didn't ask or wait for her. He went after what he wanted and grabbed it. For a woman that is very exciting. She must have felt extremely desired and wanted. Maybe you should think about that.


----------



## Jasel

Sounds your wife cheated, wants to eat cake, and won't have sex.


----------



## bryanp

Think about how illogical all of this is.
1. She claims they only had sex 4 times during her 2 year affair. It is embarrassing that she thinks you are such an idiot.
2. She refuses to have sex with you now but had no problem having sex with you while she was continuing to have sex with the OM. Clearly she did not have a problem but not she wants to punish you.
4. She continued to have sex with the OM after she was caught.
5. You both need to get tested for STD's.
6. You have given her total control over the marriage and there has been no consequences to her actions.

My friend you are doing everything wrong. She continues to emotionally abuse you and you allow it. If the roles were reversed would she be acting like you? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Your fear will destroy everything you want.

Your wife looks at you as a husband who can accept a two year sexual affair behind his back and not enforce any consequences. She continued to screw the other man after she was caught. Now instead of thanking you for not kicking her out she has now withheld any sex for you for over six months. She is punishing you for her sexual affair. What is wrong with this picture?


----------



## badbane

If she won't give it up take it. I don't mean rape but be forceful. Don't ask for it just start taking off her clothes and don't stop. IF she says I don't want to say I don't care. Be dominant but if she starts fighting like a banshee then yes stop. But a lot of times no means try harder. Trap her against the wall and undress her. Don't let her know you are doing it. Don't ask her. Don't beg. Don't slow down.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Women love and respect men who knows what he wants, men who dont give a sh1t about loosing a women, men who respect himself and accept nothing less from his p[partner, women love men who is not ready to share their wife with anyone else. 

women respect the man she loves.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

harrison said:


> I do agree with the many assessments here that my wife completely disrespected, abused, and trashed me as a husband. I also agree that she did check out of the marriage; she told me so. It was obviously how she justified doing what she did. I have had many thoughts back to those arguments we've had, and again, I agree that I was baited. Some of them were over such trivial things and she just wouldn't stop until I was so completely frustrated I would blow.
> 
> She does admit that she was very wrong, and is ashamed of the affair. She is ashamed that she didn't end it when I first discovered it. She does show remorse, just not with physical affection.
> 
> I will do the 180, continue to watch her very closely, and see what happens. I love her. So, despite what she has done to me, I do not want to end my marriage, but as I have told her already, she gets no more chances.
> 
> So, while I do respect all of your opinions, I do not want to divorce at this point. I have heard from a couple of you that I should be patient about the sex, and I have been (mostly).
> 
> I have read on marriagebuilders that for women it takes about six months to regain desire for the husband after her affair is over. I would be very interested to hear from women on this subject. I realize that my wife could still do it with me regardless of passion. In fact, during the heat of an argument about it she told me she would, but she also made it clear that she would not mentally be there. In light of that, I decided to wait.
> 
> So let me be clear: I am waiting for her to WANT to have sex. Not just to lie there and let me take it.


If you don't start doing something different, you're just going to keep getting the same results. File for divorce. Send her a strong message. You can always stop the D if she starts to come around.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


Yeah..dump the biyatch!

SERIOUSLY!!!???!!!

There are certain behaviors that a WS can exhibit to show you that they TRULY have realized what they did was wrong, and truly do love the BS. Those are the times I can support R. 

THIS?!?! Isn't one of them. Why do you want to be with a woman who feels nothing for you? Divorce her and get a woman who has passion for you. I know it's scary. It's REALLY scary to be alone....but that isn't a reason to remain married to a woman who wants you to be her gay roommate.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Oh, and a 2 year affair and she only had sex "4" times... I'd bet it's more like 104 times. Sorry, but you're buying into a fog induced fantasy my friend.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Extremely naive. 

Anyway, if she were remorseful wouldn't she be chasing you instead of the other way around? Words from a cheater aren't worth a thing. And her actions are speaking loud and clear. No remorse.


----------



## Acabado

Poor kid.
Please, sit down with your daughter. Tell her she's not to blame for anything. Not at all. Let her talk. Hold her tight.
It's so horrible she put her in this position...
How is she doing? Could she need talk to professional?


----------



## Suspecting

harrison said:


> I have read on marriagebuilders that for women it takes about six months to regain desire for the husband after her affair is over. I would be very interested to hear from women on this subject.


Good luck finding betrayed wives on this forum. Most posters are betrayed husbands or WWs...

I think your best option is to divorce your wife. After that she will get together with the OM and then you will see you were the option B for her all along.


----------



## JCD

Okay. If you can't give advice on how he moves forward with an R, ya need to be quiet. He made his choice. It's his call. You are NOT helping and may drive him away.

I read a book about female infidelity. It was anonymous self reported anecdotal data from waywards to a columnist so the need to lie was minimal.

I recall several women reported that their episode were very wiely spaced. If you check RDMU on the private thread, his wife only cheated once a month or so.

So it might be possible. Consider for a moment the logistics. She has to work around HER job, HIS job, three non blind teenaged daughters, hubby's job, the OMW's schedule, AND all the associated teen activities they have. This ignores how they are getting privacy or affording their little hotel trysts.

So while I think it likely to be a larger number, I won't be surprised if its smaller then one would think.

More later
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting

If he wants a roommate, sure why not try R. I bet the affair is still going on. I don't know how you can get over that his wife said she had way more passion with the OM than ever with his husband. Can you possibly humilate your spouse more than this.


----------



## Ever-Man

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


Without reading any other comments I will share that I also heard those words from the X who cheated on me throughout our 19 year marriage and finally left me for OM. 

Like you, I sustained my passion for my X wife, and wanted her more when she rejected me. I think your hyper-desire is instinctual need to "take back" and prove yourself to your woman. Is it really HER you want, or is it the dynamic that is fueling the hyper-passion? 

You may be setting yourself up for a lot of pain by pursing a reconciliation. Unfortuneately in your dynamic you may have to pull FAR BACK before she may pull towards you, so this burning desire must be tamed within you or you will drive her away and drive yourself crazy, simulataneously. 

Learn to controll yourself and LIE. Tell her you feel the same: you have no passion for her. Kill it inside you before it kills you, and think about seeing another woman, and moving on. This may bring her back, but at that point you may realize you do not want her.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> Okay. If you can't give advice on how he moves forward with an R, ya need to be quiet. He made his choice. It's his call. You are NOT helping and may drive him away.
> 
> I read a book about female infidelity. It was anonymous self reported anecdotal data from waywards to a columnist so the need to lie was minimal.
> 
> I recall several women reported that their episode were very wiely spaced. If you check RDMU on the private thread, his wife only cheated once a month or so.
> 
> So it might be possible. Consider for a moment the logistics. She has to work around HER job, HIS job, three non blind teenaged daughters, hubby's job, the OMW's schedule, AND all the associated teen activities they have. This ignores how they are getting privacy or affording their little hotel trysts.
> 
> So while I think it likely to be a larger number, I won't be surprised if its smaller then one would think.
> 
> More later
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And the man is going to be satisfied with sex once every six months or so?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

harrison said:


> I have read on marriagebuilders that for women it takes about six months to regain desire for the husband after her affair is over. I would be very interested to hear from women on this subject. I realize that my wife could still do it with me regardless of passion. In fact, during the heat of an argument about it she told me she would, but she also made it clear that she would not mentally be there. In light of that, I decided to wait.
> 
> So let me be clear: I am waiting for her to WANT to have sex. Not just to lie there and let me take it.


So she can only have sex when she has desire? How does she reconcile that position with the fact that she had sex with you while she was in the affair? Did she just lie there for the past two years? You need to call her on this, because she is not being honest.

I think there is a lot of good information at marriage builders, but when it comes to sex, they tend to give the wife, particularly a WW, a pass. Everything is on the man and the cheating wife has no responsibility. It is up to you what you do, but I am very afraid that this path means little work by your wife.


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> Okay. If you can't give advice on how he moves forward with an R, ya need to be quiet. He made his choice. It's his call. You are NOT helping and may drive him away.


 He cannot have a shot at real reconciliation unless she has respect for him and feels true remorse. Reading what he has written, most of us feel that he has neither of those. Are you therefore saying that we should advise him on how to move forward with false reconciliation, even though we believe that it will fail unless he changes course?


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> And the man is going to be satisfied with sex once every six months or so?


Do you think MattMatt is getting it once every 6 months (well...maybe...he's British  ). Do you think Wazza is getting it once every 6 months? Do you think SomedayDig is getting it once every six months?

No. But MattMatt said directly that after her affair, his wife went into a period where she was emotionally and sexually disconnected with her spouse.

I said directly that I was disconnected. Since, according to some women, a man will screw a snake if you hold it's head, that meant that I would have sex, but not often and didn't initiate.


That changed in our cases. It is likely to change in other cases. Wife13 says her life changed. Rand Om Guy said his marriage and sex life improved after the affair.

So how many are we up to? Six people contradicting this 'fact'?

IF she doesn't recover. IF she keeps him on short rations and continues to express disinterest, yeah, divorce her lying unloving frigid ass.

BUT should he act upon his fears or his hopes? He has made it quite clear what he wants. And according to supposed experts in the field (ignore my anecdotal data), it takes 6 months to rekindle according to the OP's reading.

So...there is a deadline. Six months. Are his daughters worth six months? I would say so.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Tall Average Guy said:


> So she can only have sex when she has desire? How does she reconcile that position with the fact that she had sex with you while she was in the affair?


Easy. She had duty sex with Harrison to keep him from being suspicious about her illicit affair.

Now that he knows, there's no longer the need for the charade.

Women can have sex whenever they want to accomplish a goal.

When my ex was trying to get pregnant I never felt so used before in my life. Once that was accomplished, it was back to once or twice every other week.

You need to let this one go and move on with the rest of your life.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> Do you think MattMatt is getting it once every 6 months (well...maybe...he's British  ). Do you think Wazza is getting it once every 6 months? Do you think SomedayDig is getting it once every six months?
> 
> No. But MattMatt said directly that after her affair, his wife went into a period where she was emotionally and sexually disconnected with her spouse.
> 
> I said directly that I was disconnected. Since, according to some women, a man will screw a snake if you hold it's head, that meant that I would have sex, but not often and didn't initiate.
> 
> 
> That changed in our cases. It is likely to change in other cases. Wife13 says her life changed. Rand Om Guy said his marriage and sex life improved after the affair.
> 
> So how many are we up to? Six people contradicting this 'fact'?
> 
> IF she doesn't recover. IF she keeps him on short rations and continues to express disinterest, yeah, divorce her lying unloving frigid ass.
> 
> BUT should he act upon his fears or his hopes? He has made it quite clear what he wants. And according to supposed experts in the field (ignore my anecdotal data), it takes 6 months to rekindle according to the OP's reading.
> 
> So...there is a deadline. Six months. Are his daughters worth six months? I would say so.


I'm talking about her two year affair and claiming sex 4 times. Nope.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

JCD said:


> Do you think MattMatt is getting it once every 6 months (well...maybe...he's British  ). Do you think Wazza is getting it once every 6 months? Do you think SomedayDig is getting it once every six months?
> 
> No. But MattMatt said directly that after her affair, his wife went into a period where she was emotionally and sexually disconnected with her spouse.
> 
> I said directly that I was disconnected. Since, according to some women, a man will screw a snake if you hold it's head, that meant that I would have sex, but not often and didn't initiate.
> 
> 
> That changed in our cases. It is likely to change in other cases. Wife13 says her life changed. Rand Om Guy said his marriage and sex life improved after the affair.
> 
> So how many are we up to? Six people contradicting this 'fact'?
> 
> IF she doesn't recover. IF she keeps him on short rations and continues to express disinterest, yeah, divorce her lying unloving frigid ass.
> 
> BUT should he act upon his fears or his hopes? He has made it quite clear what he wants. And according to supposed experts in the field (ignore my anecdotal data), it takes 6 months to rekindle according to the OP's reading.
> 
> So...there is a deadline. Six months. Are his daughters worth six months? I would say so.


I'm curious as to how long it took the WWs of the people you listed to come around. If it took 6 months I'd be pretty surprised. That's 6 months of humiliation for the man which is a very long time to endure.

But there's another matter here. His wife seems to be trickle-truthing him. That spells false R. In fact, the whole thing smacks of false R. Her not wanting to move back _until_ she feels the passion is a selfish attitude that pays little regard for how he feels. If she wanted to work on the marriage she should commit to it. By remaining separated, she's showing that she's not committed. Rather it says that she's not sure and wants the time to figure it out for herself---meanwhile hopefully Mr. Plan B will hang around.


----------



## LostViking

Harrison my heart aches for you. 

The amount of disrespect and dishonesty your wife is dispalying is criminal. You do know they used to stone women to death for this kind of behavior?

No, I don't think she should be stoned to death, but I do think you need to start divorce proceedings.

She has humiliated you in every possible way that a wife can humiliate her husband, and yet you stay with her. I really don't understand this. And not only that, she has set a horrible example for your daughter. 

For your daughter's sake, divorce this pathetioc woman and show your daughter that her father has enough self value not to let his wayward wife walk all over him.


----------



## JCD

TRy said:


> He cannot have a shot at real reconciliation unless she has respect for him and feels true remorse. Reading what he has written, most of us feel that he has neither of those. Are you therefore saying that we should advise him on how to move forward with false reconciliation, even though we believe that it will fail unless he changes course?


I believe it is possible to foster some respect and, yes, even a bit of fear in her without pushing the nuclear 'D' button.

To wit:

OP, here is my advice.

First off, if it hasn't been done yet, move the skank out of your bedroom. Move all her stuff. It's better if it's done by surprise.

She doesn't want to, or she moves back in, then you take her clothes and you put them in trashbags on the curb for her to find (don't do this on trash day) Tell her next time, it goes into a dumpster in town. She doesn't get to be in the marital bed until a) she is ready to do her marital duty and b) YOU feel that you have a wife and not a RealDoll.

Go to the gym. If she asks a single question on this change in you, tell her this: "You 'don't feel passion' for me. Okay. That you said that makes you a first class b*tch, but it's the truth and I'm man enough to take it. So...I am going to improve myself. Make myself 'passion worthy' In six months, I WILL be dating again. It might be you...it might be someone else. There are a lot of fish in the sea. You get first shot, but don't take too long."

Every day, she is getting the glares and recriminations from the three daughters (?). WHEN you move her out of the bedroom, there is no hiding this fact, because the oldest will blab. Every day, three people she DOES care about will think she's dogsh*t. (Yeah...she's facing NO recriminations or consequences )

I'd let the girls know that when it comes to bedtimes, cleaning, and how they act in the house, mom is still an authority figure. Just don't ask her any advice on dating or marriage.

I would seperate the finances. Take half the money. Seperate credit cards into his and hers. 

I would have a lawyer draft two documents. One is a waiver of counsel letter regarding the second document. She gives up her right to have a lawyer look over her interests.

The second is a document where she waives all fiscal interest in your retirement account/401k whatever. She doesn't get it if you divorce. If you die, those interests go to the daughter.

Have her come and sign a notarized will which excludes her from inheritance and gives your insurance and such to your daughters. SHE SIGNS IT TOO. Change who the recipients of the insurance are. Make them your daughters. List a relative on YOUR side of the family as executor of the estate.

All of these things can be changed back. Mention to her that these things WILL be changed back...when you decide you have a wife again.

Now...do you think she might have a bit of respect for him after he does things like this?

Did he NEED to file divorce? Are his intentions in any way unclear?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

JCD said:


> BUT should he act upon his fears or his hopes? He has made it quite clear what he wants. And according to supposed experts in the field (ignore my anecdotal data), it takes 6 months to rekindle according to the OP's reading.


My problem with that is the one-way street aspect. She is lacking passion, but has no issue having him meet her needs, such as his income, support, communication, etc. Yet she refuses to try to meet his needs. She falls back to an excuse that is clearly false. So she needs to explain that to him and be honest. And he needs to be honest with himself.


----------



## JCD

PreRaphaelite said:


> I'm curious as to how long it took the WWs of the people you listed to come around. If it took 6 months I'd be pretty surprised. That's 6 months of humiliation for the man which is a very long time to endure.
> 
> But there's another matter here. His wife seems to be trickle-truthing him. That spells false R. In fact, the whole thing smacks of false R. Her not wanting to move back _until_ she feels the passion is a selfish attitude that pays little regard for how he feels. If she wanted to work on the marriage she should commit to it. By remaining separated, she's showing that she's not committed. Rather it says that she's not sure and wants the time to figure it out for herself---meanwhile hopefully Mr. Plan B will hang around.


Then she can stay gone. He has 6 months to get his affairs in order...and he should.

IIRC, SHE did not volunteer to leave. HE asked her to. And I'm fine with that (forgot that fact, OP)

She doesn't get her kitchen. She doesn't get her laundry. She doesn't have her special chair where she watches t.v. She doesn't have her bed.

These things mean a LOT to a woman. They like stability. Now she has none.


----------



## JCD

Here is my opinion: For two years, she had an EA with a side of sex with this guy (OP, check the text and email records) Wasn't often but it happened.

As she got deeper into the fantasy, she started to cut off the husband for the last six months. She saw a 'happily ever after' down the road. (it was right past the unicorn and next to Santa's Workshop).

Now she doesn't have that. OM isn't there for whatever reason (OP, you should elucidate why this is the case) She is in withdrawal...AND a scarlet woman AND her kids hate her AND her husband hates her AND her friends hate her.

Yeah...I'm sure her panties are just SOAKING.


----------



## LostViking

JCD said:


> Now she doesn't have that. OM isn't there for whatever reason (OP, you should elucidate why this is the case) She is in withdrawal...*AND a scarlet woman AND her kids hate her AND her husband hates her AND her friends hate her.*
> Yeah...I'm sure her panties are just SOAKING.


And yet! And yet....

She continues to call the shots. She continues to pressure him into continuing with this farce of a marriage on HER terms! 

Pride. Pride and arrogance. It is absolutely astonishing.


----------



## JCD

LostViking said:


> And yet! And yet....
> 
> She continues to call the shots. She continues to pressure him into continuing with this farce of a marriage on HER terms!
> 
> Pride. Pride and arrogance. It is absolutely astonishing.


She says she doesn't want to have sex. She offered to let him rub one out inside of her, but she won't exactly be passionate.

How is this controlling? If this is how she feels, it's how she feels. If she is being a manipulative person, then does he really WANT to continue to bond with her?


----------



## LostViking

JCD said:


> She says she doesn't want to have sex. She offered to let him rub one out inside of her, but she won't exactly be passionate.
> 
> How is this controlling? If this is how she feels, it's how she feels. If she is being a manipulative person, then does he really WANT to continue to bond with her?


I see it as the worst kind of passive aggressive manipulation there is. 

"Oh husband, I don't desire you sexually, but you can use me as a sperm receptacle and I won't deny you the need to get off. Just make it quick please. Oh, then when you're done, I need you to take my car in for an oil change."


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> I believe it is possible to foster some respect and, yes, even a bit of fear in her without pushing the nuclear 'D' button.
> 
> To wit:
> 
> OP, here is my advice.
> 
> First off, if it hasn't been done yet, move the skank out of your bedroom. Move all her stuff. It's better if it's done by surprise.
> 
> She doesn't want to, or she moves back in, then you take her clothes and you put them in trashbags on the curb for her to find (don't do this on trash day) Tell her next time, it goes into a dumpster in town. She doesn't get to be in the marital bed until a) she is ready to do her marital duty and b) YOU feel that you have a wife and not a RealDoll.
> 
> Go to the gym. If she asks a single question on this change in you, tell her this: "You 'don't feel passion' for me. Okay. That you said that makes you a first class b*tch, but it's the truth and I'm man enough to take it. So...I am going to improve myself. Make myself 'passion worthy' In six months, I WILL be dating again. It might be you...it might be someone else. There are a lot of fish in the sea. You get first shot, but don't take too long."
> 
> Every day, she is getting the glares and recriminations from the three daughters (?). WHEN you move her out of the bedroom, there is no hiding this fact, because the oldest will blab. Every day, three people she DOES care about will think she's dogsh*t. (Yeah...she's facing NO recriminations or consequences )
> 
> I'd let the girls know that when it comes to bedtimes, cleaning, and how they act in the house, mom is still an authority figure. Just don't ask her any advice on dating or marriage.
> 
> I would seperate the finances. Take half the money. Seperate credit cards into his and hers.
> 
> I would have a lawyer draft two documents. One is a waiver of counsel letter regarding the second document. She gives up her right to have a lawyer look over her interests.
> 
> The second is a document where she waives all fiscal interest in your retirement account/401k whatever. She doesn't get it if you divorce. If you die, those interests go to the daughter.
> 
> Have her come and sign a notarized will which excludes her from inheritance and gives your insurance and such to your daughters. SHE SIGNS IT TOO. Change who the recipients of the insurance are. Make them your daughters. List a relative on YOUR side of the family as executor of the estate.
> 
> All of these things can be changed back. Mention to her that these things WILL be changed back...when you decide you have a wife again.
> 
> Now...do you think she might have a bit of respect for him after he does things like this?
> 
> Did he NEED to file divorce? Are his intentions in any way unclear?


 If he does these things, and she respects him enough to go along with all of the above, then great. But what happens if she does not have respect for him and says no to some of this? I hope that I am wrong, but my money says that she will not agree to or sign much of the above.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> I believe it is possible to foster some respect and, yes, even a bit of fear in her without pushing the nuclear 'D' button.
> 
> To wit:
> 
> OP, here is my advice.
> 
> First off, if it hasn't been done yet, move the skank out of your bedroom. Move all her stuff. It's better if it's done by surprise.
> 
> She doesn't want to, or she moves back in, then you take her clothes and you put them in trashbags on the curb for her to find (don't do this on trash day) Tell her next time, it goes into a dumpster in town. She doesn't get to be in the marital bed until a) she is ready to do her marital duty and b) YOU feel that you have a wife and not a RealDoll.
> 
> Go to the gym. If she asks a single question on this change in you, tell her this: "You 'don't feel passion' for me. Okay. That you said that makes you a first class b*tch, but it's the truth and I'm man enough to take it. So...I am going to improve myself. Make myself 'passion worthy' In six months, I WILL be dating again. It might be you...it might be someone else. There are a lot of fish in the sea. You get first shot, but don't take too long."
> 
> Every day, she is getting the glares and recriminations from the three daughters (?). WHEN you move her out of the bedroom, there is no hiding this fact, because the oldest will blab. Every day, three people she DOES care about will think she's dogsh*t. (Yeah...she's facing NO recriminations or consequences )
> 
> I'd let the girls know that when it comes to bedtimes, cleaning, and how they act in the house, mom is still an authority figure. Just don't ask her any advice on dating or marriage.
> 
> I would seperate the finances. Take half the money. Seperate credit cards into his and hers.
> 
> I would have a lawyer draft two documents. One is a waiver of counsel letter regarding the second document. She gives up her right to have a lawyer look over her interests.
> 
> The second is a document where she waives all fiscal interest in your retirement account/401k whatever. She doesn't get it if you divorce. If you die, those interests go to the daughter.
> 
> Have her come and sign a notarized will which excludes her from inheritance and gives your insurance and such to your daughters. SHE SIGNS IT TOO. Change who the recipients of the insurance are. Make them your daughters. List a relative on YOUR side of the family as executor of the estate.
> 
> All of these things can be changed back. Mention to her that these things WILL be changed back...when you decide you have a wife again.
> 
> Now...do you think she might have a bit of respect for him after he does things like this?
> 
> Did he NEED to file divorce? Are his intentions in any way unclear?


All very good suggestions. Two problems. One, I don't believe Harrison's wife will tolerate any of it. She will call him controlling and vindictive. She will say she can't regain her feelings for him so long as he treats her badly. And two, she is driving this train wreck. Until he seizes control he won't make any progress. But this is all premature anyway. Harrison doesn't have the truth and we all know that true R doesn't start until the truth is out there. After all, Harrison really doesn't know what he is forgiving her for.


----------



## hookares

Tall Average Guy said:


> My problem with that is the one-way street aspect. She is lacking passion, but has no issue having him meet her needs, such as his income, support, communication, etc. Yet she refuses to try to meet his needs. She falls back to an excuse that is clearly false. So she needs to explain that to him and be honest. And he needs to be honest with himself.


Since the relationship started to tank when finances were a problem,it's likely that financial support has always been his primary contribution to it and it was only when she saw it slipping away that she even considered stopping the affair.
The op can do whatever he wishes, but she'll likely be back at it again as soon as things die down.
Cheaters, cheat.


----------



## JCD

Is she doesn't accept it, even with the caveats that it is reversible, then he has his answer.


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> Is she doesn't accept it, even with the caveats that it is reversible, then he has his answer.


 To be specific, are you saying that if she doesn't accept it, then you agree that he needs to file for divorce?


----------



## Juicer

Well, I triggered today at work, so came home rather than go ballistic there. 
Then come home and read through this. So if this comes off as rude, I don't care. 

Harrison, I am going to compare your wife to my XW, and I think you'll see what is wrong here. 

My XW did TT me. Not as much as others have, but she did. 
But she wanted sex. I didn't. She was the one begging for it. She was the one putting the effort into getting it. Because it was her fault that the marriage was on the rocks. 
I also asked her how many times they had sex. She gave me the best answer at the time, which was, she couldn't remember. Later I did get an accurate estimate. But she didn't give me a crap answer. 
Now, only way your wife had sex with the OM 4x is he either had severe ED issues, or he lives 4000 miles 

Also, she was the affectionate one. She was the lusting one. She was the aggressive one. 

Because she was the one who shot the marriage and put it on life support. And our future depended entirely on her ability to keep my love for her strong enough to outweigh my rage over what she did.
And she did her research. Found out what my love language was, and I did fall back for her. The reason it failed is another story, but it failed. 

Now, I was deadset on divorce. And she realized it was HER job to fix this. Not mine, HERS. 
Your wife needs to figure this out also. She shot you and your marriage. Now, she is wanting you to allow some natural healing before she invests herself fully to try and make it work. 

Sounds more like your wife is waiting to either:
Start her affair again, or
See if you CAN forgive her, then maybe she'll warm up to you. 

Continue with the 180. 
And think about it: File for divorce. I did it. 
I also called it off several times. I could've been divorced by August or September, I don't remember which. I didn't actually divorce until December. 
Filing might be the final wakeup call she needs, to realize, this problem is her fault, and that unless she takes steps to try and help you heal and show she plans to change, you won't stay around waiting for her to finally choose to be your wife again.


----------



## lifeistooshort

LostViking said:


> I see it as the worst kind of passive aggressive manipulation there is.
> 
> "Oh husband, I don't desire you sexually, but you can use me as a sperm receptacle and I won't deny you the need to get off. Just make it quick please. Oh, then when you're done, I need you to take my car in for an oil change."


My ex was ok with that and even preferred not having to worry about whether I was satisfied. I never asked him to take care of my car though....the OP sounds like a much different guy then I had though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Get Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol

Read it ASAP

Then begin the MAP

At the same time have a hard close look at your wife and ask with new eyes is she worthy of you and your effort. 

I don't think she has ended the affair. She may be not in contact or maybe she is. Either way she isn't choosing to return to you as a wife she's holding out wanting you to leave her sllone physically so she doesn't betray her AP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> She may be not in contact or maybe she is. Either way she isn't choosing to return to you as a wife she's holding out wanting you to leave her sllone physically so she doesn't betray her AP
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is the nice thing about motives: hard to guess but easy to project.

Maybe she's saving herself for the OM. Maybe she feels like garbage. Maybe she's in clinical depression over the loss of her lover and reputation.

Maybe it's all of them mixed up. I doubt she knows. How can we? WE can guess...and project.

I am not saying you are wrong...but we can't KNOW.


----------



## Chaparral

JCD said:


> That is the nice thing about motives: hard to guess but easy to project.
> 
> Maybe she's saving herself for the OM. Maybe she feels like garbage. Maybe she's in clinical depression over the loss of her lover and reputation.
> 
> Maybe it's all of them mixed up. I doubt she knows. How can we? WE can guess...and project.


But what she is doing isn't at all unheard around here. Thinking she is still in the affair is simply playing the odds. I would guess the likely hood
Is way higher than even odds.


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> Is she doesn't accept it, even with the caveats that it is reversible, then he has his answer.


 Maybe I am wrong, but you appear to be so so sold on reconciliation, that you seem to be avoiding directly stating that he should move for a divorce even if she does not accept the conditions that you suggested for him to remain. To clear this up, please specifically answer if you are saying that if she doesn't accept the conditions as laid out by you, then you agree that he needs to file for divorce?


----------



## JCD

TRy said:


> Maybe I am wrong, but you appear to be so so sold on reconciliation, that you seem to be avoiding directly stating that he should move for a divorce even if she does not accept the conditions that you suggested for him to remain. To clear this up, please specifically answer if you are saying that if she doesn't accept the conditions as laid out by you, then you agree that he needs to file for divorce?


I don't have a simple answer.

I think he needs to lay out what he NEEDS to R. I think there should be a strong line. I don't think he needs to demean or destroy her self respect. So if they need to chat about one or two of these points, REASONABLE people can come up with a compromise.

I tried not to go too far on the demands without letting her totally off the hook. I don't see them as too onerous. But moving a little on a point or two would not be a deal breaker. Say she came back with 'we've been married for X years. I think that I should at least get a quarter of your 401K if things don't work out.'

Okay...that works. If she wasn't willing to accept ANY of them or discuss any of them, there is the door. Let my boot help you on your way out.

Does this clarify matters at all?

Let me clarify one more point. HE is sold on R. He said so. Any comment I make is geared to what he wants. I am trying to set a few boundaries which will give him some self respect and also send a clear message to his wife so she does not take him for granted (he needs to man up a little too)

My 'sold on R' comes from one thing: I am not a BS who projects the hell out of any WS on the board.

Cheaters have their script. So do TAM BSers "Narcissistic, cake eating, only crying for herself, wants to keep screwing around, no good dirty rotten woman..."

EVERY woman is like that unless they are willing to crawl so much they leave bloody handprints.

I do not cast every decision, reaction and statement of the WS in the worst possible light. That has become common here.

I could be wrong. But there are more reasons for her sudden lack of interest in sex then her preserving her pvssy for someone else. But since that is the WORST interpretation, a lot of people here buy it as gospel.


----------



## bfree

I don't think she is preserving anything for anyone. I think she liked her affair. She liked her lover, she liked the exciting sex, and she wishes it was still active. Will she try to start up again? If she doesn't start seeing her affair for what it truly was then yes, she will cheat again. If not with this man than with another. She'll forever chase the false passion that she still craves. She needs a wakeup call in the worst way. What that entails is up for debate but it's clear that waiting it out is not going to work. All that will do is pass the time until her desires become too strong to ignore.


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> I do not cast every decision, reaction and statement of the WS in the worst possible light. That has become common here.
> 
> I could be wrong. But there are more reasons for her sudden lack of interest in sex then her preserving her pvssy for someone else. But since that is the WORST interpretation, a lot of people here buy it as gospel.


 Maybe you forgot, but the OP stated that "One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled." This is not our WORST interpretation, it is just that the actual situation is so bad that better interpretations do not look reasonable. With this in mind, I do not think that anyone needs to project anything to view the fact that "She still won't even kiss" the OP in a bad light.


----------



## carpenoctem

*Maybe she is avoiding incest – you are now like her brother / father.*

*Maybe she is taking passive aggressive revenge on you* – for spoiling her thing with the OM. When she was having duty sex with you, there was a reward – sex with OM. Now, you have taken the reward away. So, not even duty sex. You stopped him from having it. Well, you don’t get it either. *If she is allowed to eat cake, you get some crumbs. If not, not.*

*Maybe she is baiting the OM with a higher degree of commitment* – being ‘more’ faithful to him than when their affair was a secret. Maybe during those three weeks post D-Day, when she continued the affair, she tried her best to convince the OM to step up, so that she can make the switch. He didn’t, so she stepped up her level of commitment to him, by being faithful to him, sexually excluding the husband.

*Maybe she is really waiting for her passion for you to wake up. Or maybe she is waiting for the OM to wake up. And make a move.*

*Maybe she is just not ready. Maybe her sexual mucus is frozen with shame.*


*Maybe* she was telling you the truth – it was 4 times – but just forgot a qualifier – 4 times (- a month / a week / per tryst). *Maybe the count refers to what YOU will get, if she deigns eventually – 4 times in the coming two years (just as she says THEY had).*

*Maybe* she will have sex with you one day, readily, and you will feel as though an extraordinary honour has been bestowed upon you. Or maybe by then you wouldn’t care. Or maybe when that phase is over, you will get angry and walk.

*Maybe.*

*
If one looks at the Big Picture of your life, this is all so pathetic.*

*You have put your life in suspended animation -- your thoughts, energy, ethos, emotions – all are now locked into sorting out her sexual mysteries. Every woman has a vagina, Sir. Your wife has nothing unique. And you should not be standing in a limbo queue in front of it.
*
There are aspects in all of us that we must respect. And there are aspects that we must deride. Don’t respect what we must deride. And vice versa.

You are much more than you are giving yourself credit for. With this – waiting for her to perhaps one day rebuild some passion for you and all that, you are insulting yourself.

Don’t wait. If she does feel something for you again, great. If she one day yearns to have sex with you again, great. *But let HER cue you in on that.*

You don’t wait. More importantly, *don’t let her see that you are waiting.
*
Whether she rebuilds her passion for you or not, you rebuild your physical appearance, self-image and public persona. *See what that brings you.*

If that brings you the detachment to divorce, be fine with it. If that brings you the confidence to forgive her without diminishing yourself and reconcile, so be it.

But put yourself first. Please.

*She is not the centre of your universe. YOU are.*


----------



## Acabado

Great post, carpenoctem!


----------



## carpenoctem

very kind of you to say that, Sir.


----------



## Ovid

Post of the day carpenoctem!


----------



## bryanp

Excuse the pun but carpenoctem absolutely nailed it!


----------



## Juicer

Maybe she is still of in "Lala land," think of what could have been instead of what reality is. 

She doesn't want to let go of the dream. Which was her OM to take her away into fantasy bliss, and you to provide for her when she needed you to. 
And she doesn't want to face reality, which is, the OM is gone, and now she is stuck with you. 

On a scale of 1-10, how remorseful do you think your WW is?
Then, again on a scale of 1-10, how much effort do you think she is putting into trying to make this marriage work?


----------



## JCD

Cosmo said most men who break up do better then they think they would when they break up. Cosmo must be always right. Your course is clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hopefulgirl

I think some of Shirley Glass' ideas may be helpful here. From her book Not Just Friends - 

"...the longer the affair has lasted and the more satisfying it was, the harder it is to let go. Letting go takes time."

"If your partner is still grieving the loss of the other relationship...acts of devotion may be slow to appear in the first weeks or even months after discovery."

I'm not a fan of Harley's use of the "in love" concept (I don't think people in long term relationships feel those same tingly brain chemicals nearly to the degree that you do during new romantic relationships or illicit affairs). But his 6 month time frame may be helpful. Your WS was involved for a long time in her A so it may take 6 months to come out of her fog.

The threat of D was the slap in the face that got her to finally end it, but she can't shake off the effects of it all at once. 

Glass suggests hand holding and foot massages or back rubs when one partner isn't ready yet for sex. Would she go along with those kinds of things?

R requires other tangible efforts on her part too. Does she know what you need to see happening other than sex? For example, my WS and I are making sure to plan couple activities that don't involve talking about the A (preferably involving laughter and/or nature), but we also make time to discuss the A because I have to air the stuff that is rattling around in my head or else I'll go nuts (I'm close to 3 months since D-Day).


----------



## Juicer

IF they are too busy mourning the loss of their affair, then they don't want to be married to you. They'd rather be with their affair partner, but instead, are stuck, with you, their spouse. 

They should either be rejoicing they got a second chance, or mourning the fact they lost both their AP and their marriage. 
They don't get to mourn the loss of their AP while they keep their marriage. 
Or at least, they shouldn't get to.


----------



## JCD

Juicer said:


> IF they are too busy mourning the loss of their affair, then they don't want to be married to you. They'd rather be with their affair partner, but instead, are stuck, with you, their spouse.
> 
> They should either be rejoicing they got a second chance, or mourning the fact they lost both their AP and their marriage.
> They don't get to mourn the loss of their AP while they keep their marriage.
> Or at least, they shouldn't get to.


You haven't been there. I know you would prefer she begs him to ask what flavor of lip gloss he wants her to wear when she kisses his ass, but it doesn't work that way.

Ever have a close CLOSE family member die? How about a lover or wife? You can talk about what the RATIONAL mind SHOULD do, but it isn't like that. Perhaps you aren't reading ANY of the posts by waywards DESPERATE to change how they feel.

RATIONALLY, we want to be exactly where you thin we should be, perhaps with a bit less groveling. Emotionally, whether we want to go back or not, it's like our Dad died. More, because there was all that sexual bonding going on too.

I am not trying to specifically call you out, but to address this attitude that if the Wayward isn't groveling, begging forgiveness, or shows ANY sense that they miss the AP, they aren't serious.

We are! Excuse me. We CAN. Right now she has this huge hole in her life and if she's SMART, she'll fill it with her family and husband.

BUT IT TAKES TIME!

This knee jerk response of 'if she/he isn't kissing your ass with gratitude' right out of the gate is harmful for a LOT of recoverable marriages.

Yup, there might be a few false Rs as well. Which would you prefer to risk more, broken marriages which could have healed, or the BS having a chance of being hurt again...though not as much, since he already knows what she is capable of?

Everyone can do their own calculus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

JCD said:


> You haven't been there. I know you would prefer she begs him to ask what flavor of lip gloss he wants her to wear when she kisses his ass, but it doesn't work that way.
> 
> Ever have a close CLOSE family member die? How about a lover or wife? You can talk about what the RATIONAL mind SHOULD do, but it isn't like that. Perhaps you aren't reading ANY of the posts by waywards DESPERATE to change how they feel.
> 
> RATIONALLY, we want to be exactly where you thin we should be, perhaps with a bit less groveling. Emotionally, whether we want to go back or not, it's like our Dad died. More, because there was all that sexual bonding going on too.
> 
> I am not trying to specifically call you out, but to address this attitude that if the Wayward isn't groveling, begging forgiveness, or shows ANY sense that they miss the AP, they aren't serious.
> 
> We are! Excuse me. We CAN. Right now she has this huge hole in her life and if she's SMART, she'll fill it with her family and husband.


Are you kidding me? 

Would you be OK with your husband screwing your neighbor and then mourning her loss when she breaks up with him?

That you would console him for his loss? You would fill this terrible hole in his life?

You are comparing this to someone losing their parent? 

Seriously?

We are talking about betrayal, not losing a parent.


----------



## LongWalk

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> *Maybe she is avoiding incest – you are now like her brother / father.
> 
> Maybe she is taking passive aggressive revenge on you* – for spoiling her thing with the OM. When she was having duty sex with you, there was a reward – sex with OM. Now, you have taken the reward away. So, not even duty sex. You stopped him from having it. Well, you don’t get it either. *If she is allowed to eat cake, you get some crumbs. If not, not.
> 
> Maybe she is baiting the OM with a higher degree of commitment* – being ‘more’ faithful to him than when their affair was a secret. Maybe during those three weeks post D-Day, when she continued the affair, she tried her best to convince the OM to step up, so that she can make the switch. He didn’t, so she stepped up her level of commitment to him, by being faithful to him, sexually excluding the husband.
> 
> *Maybe she is really waiting for her passion for you to wake up. Or maybe she is waiting for the OM to wake up. And make a move.
> 
> Maybe she is just not ready. Maybe her sexual mucus is frozen with shame.
> 
> 
> Maybe* she was telling you the truth – it was 4 times – but just forgot a qualifier – 4 times (- a month / a week / per tryst). *Maybe the count refers to what YOU will get, if she deigns eventually – 4 times in the coming two years (just as she says THEY had).
> 
> Maybe* she will have sex with you one day, readily, and you will feel as though an extraordinary honour has been bestowed upon you. Or maybe by then you wouldn’t care. Or maybe when that phase is over, you will get angry and walk.
> 
> *Maybe.
> 
> 
> If one looks at the Big Picture of your life, this is all so pathetic.
> 
> You have put your life in suspended animation -- your thoughts, energy, ethos, emotions – all are now locked into sorting out her sexual mysteries. Every woman has a vagina, Sir. Your wife has nothing unique. And you should not be standing in a limbo queue in front of it.*
> 
> There are aspects in all of us that we must respect. And there are aspects that we must deride. Don’t respect what we must deride. And vice versa.
> 
> You are much more than you are giving yourself credit for. With this – waiting for her to perhaps one day rebuild some passion for you and all that, you are insulting yourself.
> 
> Don’t wait. If she does feel something for you again, great. If she one day yearns to have sex with you again, great. *But let HER cue you in on that.*
> 
> You don’t wait. More importantly, *don’t let her see that you are waiting.*
> 
> Whether she rebuilds her passion for you or not, you rebuild your physical appearance, self-image and public persona. *See what that brings you.*
> 
> If that brings you the detachment to divorce, be fine with it. If that brings you the confidence to forgive her without diminishing yourself and reconcile, so be it.
> 
> But put yourself first. Please.
> 
> *She is not the centre of your universe. YOU are.*


:iagree: Well written.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> Cosmo said most men who break up do better then they think they would when they break up. Cosmo must be always right. Your course is clear.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't quote Cosmo. Now I feel dirty.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I have this recollection that JCD is a cheater. Is that right? Or am I thinking of someone else?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

He is.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He is.


Ya it makes sense that he would have these viewpoints then.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> Don't quote Cosmo. Now I feel dirty.





SadSamIAm said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Would you be OK with your husband screwing your neighbor and then mourning her loss when she breaks up with him?
> 
> That you would console him for his loss? You would fill this terrible hole in his life?
> 
> You are comparing this to someone losing their parent?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> We are talking about betrayal, not losing a parent.


Nope. It isn't like losing a parent. It's like James Bond losing that chick he marries only to have her shot dead suddenly. Because it's fantasy uber hot naughty bonding and not run of the mill flannel nightgown sex. Imagine losing your wife to a car crash right after the honeymoon.

Now...I read my post twice and not once did I read the word 'console'. People mourn lost things all the time: loved ones, friends, old jobs, dreams dead on the shoals of reality, etc. so why is it strange that someone would...depressurize after such emotional turmoil.

But let me turn this around. Your wayward ADMITS to her D Day. She gives you her phone, she tattoos a wedding ring on her finger, she snaps a GPS anklet on and gives her car to charity. She has you change every password on every electronic device so she can't use it, she goes to a female counselor for IC, she gives you a post nup and has all the money put into an account only YOU can access. Heck, she personally sets up spy cams in the house so you can see her any second you want on you mePhone. She tossed the OM under the bus, told his wife without asking, posted both of them on cheaterville, and told ALL the family members.

RATIONALLY, you, the BS should GTF over this right now. There is nothing more to ask for, right?

I assume you are screaming your head off and pounding the keyboard. This is nonsense. Your feeling, your *fantasy* of what your marriage was was violated and you grieve for the betrayal and loss of your dream marriage.

So why are YOUR feelings real but not hers? 

BS should be mad. BS has to get over his pain. Don't blame him. Never will. BUT...it sucks for everyone.

If the BS wants her back, he needs to let her sort through her feelings too or he doesn't really want her. Not fair. Not right.

If it's any consolation, it is VERY painful for the WS to disconnect like this.



WorkingOnMe said:


> I have this recollection that JCD is a cheater. Is that right? Or am I thinking of someone else?


EA not PA.



Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He is.


And that means I might have insights people who want to R might find valuable, not this BS that if she isn't kissing fanny immediately or not dropping her panties as soon as the NC letter goes out,that she's a faker. (And that BS didn't stand for Betrayed Spouse...)


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Nope. It isn't like losing a parent. It's like James Bond losing that chick he marries only to have her shot dead suddenly. Because it's fantasy uber hot naughty bonding and not run of the mill flannel nightgown sex. Imagine losing your wife to a car crash right after the honeymoon.
> 
> Now...I read my post twice and not once did I read the word 'console'. People mourn lost things all the time: loved ones, friends, old jobs, dreams dead on the shoals of reality, etc. so why is it strange that someone would...depressurize after such emotional turmoil.
> 
> But let me turn this around. Your wayward ADMITS to her D Day. She gives you her phone, she tattoos a wedding ring on her finger, she snaps a GPS anklet on and gives her car to charity. She has you change every password on every electronic device so she can't use it, she goes to a female counselor for IC, she gives you a post nup and has all the money put into an account only YOU can access. Heck, she personally sets up spy cams in the house so you can see her any second you want on you mePhone. She tossed the OM under the bus, told his wife without asking, posted both of them on cheaterville, and told ALL the family members.
> 
> RATIONALLY, you, the BS should GTF over this right now. There is nothing more to ask for, right?
> 
> I assume you are screaming your head off and pounding the keyboard. This is nonsense. Your feeling, your *fantasy* of what your marriage was was violated and you grieve for the betrayal and loss of your dream marriage.
> 
> So why are YOUR feelings real but not hers?
> 
> BS should be mad. BS has to get over his pain. Don't blame him. Never will. BUT...it sucks for everyone.
> 
> If the BS wants her back, he needs to let her sort through her feelings too or he doesn't really want her. Not fair. Not right.
> 
> If it's any consolation, it is VERY painful for the WS to disconnect like this.
> 
> 
> 
> EA not PA.
> 
> 
> 
> And that means I might have insights people who want to R might find valuable, not this BS that if she isn't kissing fanny immediately or not dropping her panties as soon as the NC letter goes out,that she's a faker. (And that BS didn't stand for Betrayed Spouse...)


JCD,

What you are failing to grasp is that most TAM posters are just as quick to "shock" the BS out of their fog as they are advising Harrison that his WS needs to be shocked out of hers. Now, is that accomplished by filing for divorce? Possibly. Is it accomplished by any of the suggestions you offered. Maybe. But one thing is clear. Allowing these things to fester is NOT advisable in the least. Whatever the reasons for her reluctance to embrace reconciliation Harrison needs to bring this situation to a head in order to advance the timeline and determine if this is true R or false R. Limbo is the worst place to be. There is a reason purgatory is feared sometimes more than hell.


----------



## TRy

JCD said:


> RATIONALLY, you, the BS should GTF over this right now. There is nothing more to ask for, right?


 If asking the cheating spouse to take steps to insure that they are not still seeing their affair partner is all that the betrayed spouse (BS) wants out of their marriage, you may be right. But just getting that does not a marraige make. The OP wants and is not getting sex, intimacy or even a kiss, much less empathy or respect.

You also have a false sense of entitlement where you assume that once the cheating spouse stops cheating on the BS that it is the obligation of the BS to "GTF over" the affair "right now" with little assistance from the cheater. News Flash, the BS will never get over the affair; the best that they can do is let it fade over time but only with the assistance of the cheater. Even then there is no assurance that after giving reconciliation their best efforts that the BS will not want to stay in the marriage. Forgiveness and reconciliation are gifts from the BS and not a birth right of the cheater.


----------



## JCD

She is not refusing to R. She says she wants R. From what it seems, she SEEMS to be doing everything she should (though with all theses threads, I could be off) except she isn't feeling sexually engaged.

Yes, she had a stutter start (been there too...) but now she's trying.

He should watch her. He should be skeptical and wary. I am on board with him manning up a bit more.

What I do NOT agree with is that her lack of panty shedding is any indication of willingness to R. It isn't and it's just a cheap way to foster doubts in an already bad situation.

Forcing that issue is sort of icky too. If you paid attention to my posts, which I think you have, I did NOT SUGGEST he wait forever for her. I said 6 months. This seems fair.

Let me be perfectly clear: she should also be doing OTHER things to verify her willingness.

She has. She moved out on demand and wrote an NC letter (not sure how those two things fit together, but it's his R)

Does this clarify my position?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

TRy said:


> If asking the cheating spouse to take steps to insure that they are not still seeing their affair partner is all that the betrayed spouse (BS) wants out of their marriage, you may be right. But just getting that does not a marraige make. The OP wants and is not getting sex, intimacy or even a kiss, much less empathy or respect.
> 
> You also have a false sense of entitlement where you assume that once the cheating spouse stops cheating on the BS that it is the obligation of the BS to "GTF over" the affair "right now" with little assistance from the cheater. News Flash, the BS will never get over the affair; the best that they can do is let it fade over time but only with the assistance of the cheater. Even then there is no assurance that after giving reconciliation their best efforts that the BS will not want to stay in the marriage. Forgiveness and reconciliation are gifts from the BS and not a birth right of the cheater.


I am sorry you didn't see I was actually disputing the position that BS' should 'just get over it'. It is nonsensical on its face. But it is just as silly as the idea that a WS can shift her emotions on a dime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> *Maybe she is avoiding incest – you are now like her brother / father.
> 
> Maybe she is taking passive aggressive revenge on you* – for spoiling her thing with the OM. When she was having duty sex with you, there was a reward – sex with OM. Now, you have taken the reward away. So, not even duty sex. You stopped him from having it. Well, you don’t get it either. *If she is allowed to eat cake, you get some crumbs. If not, not.
> 
> Maybe she is baiting the OM with a higher degree of commitment* – being ‘more’ faithful to him than when their affair was a secret. Maybe during those three weeks post D-Day, when she continued the affair, she tried her best to convince the OM to step up, so that she can make the switch. He didn’t, so she stepped up her level of commitment to him, by being faithful to him, sexually excluding the husband.
> 
> *Maybe she is really waiting for her passion for you to wake up. Or maybe she is waiting for the OM to wake up. And make a move.
> 
> Maybe she is just not ready. Maybe her sexual mucus is frozen with shame.
> 
> 
> Maybe* she was telling you the truth – it was 4 times – but just forgot a qualifier – 4 times (- a month / a week / per tryst). *Maybe the count refers to what YOU will get, if she deigns eventually – 4 times in the coming two years (just as she says THEY had).
> 
> Maybe* she will have sex with you one day, readily, and you will feel as though an extraordinary honour has been bestowed upon you. Or maybe by then you wouldn’t care. Or maybe when that phase is over, you will get angry and walk.
> 
> *Maybe.
> 
> 
> If one looks at the Big Picture of your life, this is all so pathetic.
> 
> You have put your life in suspended animation -- your thoughts, energy, ethos, emotions – all are now locked into sorting out her sexual mysteries. Every woman has a vagina, Sir. Your wife has nothing unique. And you should not be standing in a limbo queue in front of it.*
> 
> There are aspects in all of us that we must respect. And there are aspects that we must deride. Don’t respect what we must deride. And vice versa.
> 
> You are much more than you are giving yourself credit for. With this – waiting for her to perhaps one day rebuild some passion for you and all that, you are insulting yourself.
> 
> Don’t wait. If she does feel something for you again, great. If she one day yearns to have sex with you again, great. *But let HER cue you in on that.*
> 
> You don’t wait. More importantly, *don’t let her see that you are waiting.*
> 
> Whether she rebuilds her passion for you or not, you rebuild your physical appearance, self-image and public persona. *See what that brings you.*
> 
> If that brings you the detachment to divorce, be fine with it. If that brings you the confidence to forgive her without diminishing yourself and reconcile, so be it.
> 
> But put yourself first. Please.
> 
> *She is not the centre of your universe. YOU are.*


HolyJesus
This guy can make his point


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> She is not refusing to R. She says she wants R. From what it seems, she SEEMS to be doing everything she should (though with all theses threads, I could be off) except she isn't feeling sexually engaged.
> 
> Yes, she had a stutter start (been there too...) but now she's trying.
> 
> He should watch her. He should be skeptical and wary. I am on board with him manning up a bit more.
> 
> What I do NOT agree with is that her lack of panty shedding is any indication of willingness to R. It isn't and it's just a cheap way to foster doubts in an already bad situation.
> 
> Forcing that issue is sort of icky too. If you paid attention to my posts, which I think you have, I did NOT SUGGEST he wait forever for her. I said 6 months. This seems fair.
> 
> Let me be perfectly clear: she should also be doing OTHER things to verify her willingness.
> 
> She has. She moved out on demand and wrote an NC letter (not sure how those two things fit together, but it's his R)
> 
> Does this clarify my position?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually her lack of panty shedding is an indication not of willingness to reconcile but ability to reconcile and participate in a healthy marriage. If she is pining after passion or in some ways playing the part of an alpha widow how strong will their reconciliation actually be? How healthy will the marriage be going forward? If her feelings for her husband are gone why is she reconciling at all? Is it the security? The shame she would feel at being labeled a divorced cheater? These are issues of paramount importance to both of them don't you think?


----------



## Shaggy

JCD im pretty confused on where you actuslly sit with resoect to cheating. Many of your comments seem to be entirely aimed at encouraging the BS from dealing with the affair in any way other than accepting it and letting it go on,

I pick up messages of advocating that the bs never holds them accountable, never question them, and just burry your head in the sand and hope that eventually they choose to stop cheating and return to the marriage. Even the thought that the BS is in the wrong, and not the cheater.

The advice I hear is that the BS should politely step out of the way of the affair and let the WS go wild without anything negative, not even a harsh word. Lest it upset the WS and make them unhappy.

Seriously? Is this what you are advocating to the BS?


----------



## Shaggy

This is a classic case of talk being cheap.

It's easy for her to say she doesn't want to D. But she turns away when asked to engage in things that actual couple do. 

Also do you really believe if she had such a great PA with him, beyond anything she's experienced before that it was only 4 times in 2 years?


----------



## alte Dame

Probably shouldn't wade in here, but I think OP's W should be making an effort to reestablish the sexual aspect of the marriage even if she isn't feeling the 'passion.' I think after something as devastating as infidelity, both of them will have understandable problems in this department. If she wants R, she has to try, in my opinion. I think he has a right to expect it as part of the process. He can't force it, certainly, but he has a right to expect it.


----------



## cledus_snow

this thread sounds exactly what *slater *was/is going through. eighteen months later and he's still stuck in a rut.

read his sad tale..... is that what you really want?


----------



## lordmayhem

*Having read the thread in the cheater forum that shall not be named*, I have an idea why she won't have sex with harrison, and it doesn't have anything to do with guilt. OM is still very clearly in her head and the emotional attachment is so very, very strong. But she will use guilt as an excuse. 

Hence no Hysterical Bonding here. She is NOT doing everything she can to help her BS heal, because she's not truly remorseful. If she was doing the heavy lifting, she would be doing everything she can to help him recover. She should be reconnecting with him through the physical intimacy of sex, but she obviously has no desire to. Why is that? Because someone else is on her mind. 

In many of the threads here, where the couple is supposedly in R, yet the WW still does not want to have sex with her BH, its seen that the affair is either deep underground, or the OM is still on the WW's mind.


----------



## lordmayhem

alte Dame said:


> Probably shouldn't wade in here, but I think OP's W should be making an effort to reestablish the sexual aspect of the marriage even if she isn't feeling the 'passion.' I think after something as devastating as infidelity, both of them will have understandable problems in this department. If she wants R, she has to try, in my opinion. I think he has a right to expect it as part of the process. He can't force it, certainly, but he has a right to expect it.


:iagree:

The physical intimacy of sex helps to rebuild the bond.


----------



## cledus_snow

she might even think that having sex with harrison would be like "cheating" on OM. 

just something to think about.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> Actually her lack of panty shedding is an indication not of willingness to reconcile but ability to reconcile and participate in a healthy marriage. If she is pining after passion or in some ways playing the part of an alpha widow how strong will their reconciliation actually be? How healthy will the marriage be going forward? If her feelings for her husband are gone why is she reconciling at all? Is it the security? The shame she would feel at being labeled a divorced cheater? These are issues of paramount importance to both of them don't you think?


I already addressed this issue. She might not. She may never recover 'the passion'. In which case he needs to make choices about what he wants out of marriage and if he deserves better.

This situation is analogous to a car wreck. She drove the both of them into a bridge abutment and they are now both broken people. He's battered, but he can walk. She broke her pelvis. Asking her to do cartwheels right now is silly.

IF she refuses physical therapy and refuses to walk, the OP SHOULD walk! This is no free ride to continue pining for some other guy or refuse her marital duties. And I am troubled by the fact she WON'T kiss him.

What she is going through, I have lived...and I am dedicated to my R. It took a year to get to a BETTER place than my marriage was in for YEARS. So the OP has some hope here. I find it personally offensive that people are implying that I am lying about this. If it happened this way with me, why can't it happen to her?

One other thing that many people are ignoring is that *this guy wants to try to reconcile!* he is willing to invest six months to see if she is willing to move.

To alte Dame, she is willing to do her duties. She was a bit passive aggressive in how she offered granted. I think he should take her up on that in a few months because sometimes women need a little jump start. 

If she doesn't move at all in six months, he should divorce her ass. If things have improved but have not gotten perfect,he should reassess. It took a year to try to fix things for me but things wildly improved before a year.

I find it a bit premature to try to parse out motives. Everything you mention MIGHT be true...but also more. He can't KNOW why, so it's silly to wonder. If she comes to a point where she is making him happy, does it matter if she's only doing it cause she wants to retire with someone?

Your mileage may vary.

@ lord mayhem Of COURSE the OM is in her head. My friend is still in mine. Want to know who is in my head more? My wife and family. The whole problem for her libido is trying to remove him as much as possible. I have advice on how to do that too.


----------



## Decorum

harrison,
This my be your future...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/70174-revenge-affair-my-needs-7.html

This WW just did not want to be divorced, but had no passion for her husband, she had 3 years of meetup with her Ap. Oh! The excitement of it all!! The poor husband in false R, nothing. If she is unremorseful or lazy its like wearing sandpaper underware, enjoy!

I would hate to guess what percentage of these type of long term affairs/no passion reconcilations, ever actually leave the station.

The good news is if its a non-starter you will figure it out sooner or later.

Take care!


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



JCD said:


> I already addressed this issue. She might not. She may never recover 'the passion'. In which case he needs to make choices about what he wants out of marriage and if he deserves better.
> 
> This situation is analogous to a car wreck. She drove the both of them into a bridge abutment and they are now both broken people. He's battered, but he can walk. She broke her pelvis. Asking her to do cartwheels right now is silly.
> 
> IF she refuses physical therapy and refuses to walk, the OP SHOULD walk! This is no free ride to continue pining for some other guy or refuse her marital duties. And I am troubled by the fact she WON'T kiss him.
> 
> What she is going through, I have lived...and I am dedicated to my R. It took a year to get to a BETTER place than my marriage was in for YEARS. So the OP has some hope here. I find it personally offensive that people are implying that I am lying about this. If it happened this way with me, why can't it happen to her?
> 
> One other thing that many people are ignoring is that *this guy wants to try to reconcile!*  he is willing to invest six months to see if she is willing to move.
> 
> To alte Dame, she is willing to do her duties. She was a bit passive aggressive in how she offered granted. I think he should take her up on that in a few months because sometimes women need a little jump start.
> 
> If she doesn't move at all in six months, he should divorce her ass. If things have improved but have not gotten perfect,he should reassess. It took a year to try to fix things for me but things wildly improved before a year.
> 
> I find it a bit premature to try to parse out motives. Everything you mention MIGHT be true...but also more. He can't KNOW why, so it's silly to wonder. If she comes to a point where she is making him happy, does it matter if she's only doing it cause she wants to retire with someone?
> 
> Your mileage may vary.
> 
> @ lord mayhem Of COURSE the OM is in her head. My friend is still in mine. Want to know who is in my head more? My wife and family. The whole problem for her libido is trying to remove him as much as possible. I have advice on how to do that too.


Taking your analogy of a car wreck to the logical next step. If she had a broken pelvis she would have to attend rehab. And in rehab she would have to do things that would not be pleasant and even more so downright painful. But in order to recover she would be told that she needs to push through that and do it anyway. She would need to try. If she sat an her arse rather than do the work necessary to recover she would never walk again...right?


----------



## JCD

And what did I say about that?



> IF she refuses physical therapy and refuses to walk, the OP SHOULD walk! This is no free ride to continue pining for some other guy or refuse her marital duties. And I am troubled by the fact she WON'T kiss him.


There is it in black and white (depending on how you set your browser)

And what did I say if she goes three years pining, Decorum?



> If she doesn't move at all in *six months*, he should divorce her ass. If things have improved but have not gotten perfect,he should reassess. It took a year to try to fix things for me but things wildly improved before a year.


Oops. My mistake. I never said he should wait 3 years. I said he should see some movement within six months or....or...

Oh...I said he should walk!

Hmm.

Okay. I'm out.

Harrison, PM me if you want some advice.


----------



## Chaparral

I think, and this may sound harsh, that you should keep it simple. Tell her you do not wang to go somewhere else for sex. Tell her she will have to do, that she will just have to put up with it. 

Take her to bed tell her to get on top but turn around where she doesn't have to look at you.

Tell her she has to do the work and the quicker and better she is the faster she can go back to the couch.

Otherwise you are going to be played for a long time if not forever.

If shd refuses put her clothes in a garbage bage and help her out the door.

I know personally this can work. You only need pity sex one time. Put her in the drivers seat and when she HAS to get you off, she s going to have a hard time not getting off herself. The big problem here is breaking the ice.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, I am assuming you are reasonably attractive and haven't let yourself go.

I think this is mostly a fitness test. Google fitness tests.


----------



## theroad

Many a WW go through HB after dday for up to 6 months.

Many a WW go through a period of not putting out for their BH right after dday and the affair is eneded.

Both are normal responses.

Many WW cut off their BH during an affair because they have to be faithful to the one they are in love with, the OM.

Many WW never stop doing their BH and some wind up doing the BH even more.

Both are normal responses.

What this OP has is a WW that has stopped the affair but has not detoxed from her addiction to her OM.

Now whether she has had a marriage of poor sex, good sex, or great sex. Her WW fogged brain has her still feeling sex with the OM was the greatest. Dealing with feelings will not result in rational decisions. If that could be so then there would be many less affairs.

For many WW sex during an affair was ok, even nothing to write home about. Though for them sex was gadly given up for the emotional needs that the OM was meeting.

WW wanted the OM to continue meeting those needs so they put out.

For many WW the sex was either mind blowing, or the rush from doing something forbidden as affair sex made average sex appear to be mind blowing.

Couple that with that a WW re wrote her marital history to justify her banging the OM she painted her BH as a villain, a dud, not worth her time.

The WW mindset during the affair must be removed and the healthy mind set that WW had for her BH has to be restored.

That is a big part of recovery. Telling the OP to push for sex, attacking his WW is not productive at getting his WW to mourn the loss of her OM and detox from her addiction to the OM.

A low cost book, Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley will give this BH more tools to get his marriage back on track then over half of the advice given on this thread.


----------



## Blue Firefly

bfree said:


> Actually her lack of panty shedding is an indication not of willingness to reconcile but *ability to reconcile and participate in a healthy marriage*. If she is pining after passion or in some ways playing the part of an alpha widow how strong will their reconciliation actually be? How healthy will the marriage be going forward? If her feelings for her husband are gone why is she reconciling at all? Is it the security? The shame she would feel at being labeled a divorced cheater? These are issues of paramount importance to both of them don't you think?


+1 (although I would have phrased it "...an indication of her _inability_ to reconcile and participate in a healthy marriage").


Any port in a storm?

Her OM boat sunk. She managed to make it back to a secure port (your marriage), but it's not where she wants to be. She doesn't seem to be taking any of the normal steps people take when putting down roots.

She is waiting for either (1) the OM boat to come back and pick her up, or (2) a different boat to come pick her up.

Are you sure you aren't married to Ginger from Gilligan's Island? She acted like she was one of the castaways, but the moment some Hollywood person came along, she dumped the rest of the castaways like a hot potato to pursue her dream of stardom.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



theroad said:


> Many a WW go through HB after dday for up to 6 months.
> 
> Many a WW go through a period of not putting out for their BH right after dday and the affair is eneded.
> 
> Both are normal responses.
> 
> Many WW cut off their BH during an affair because they have to be faithful to the one they are in love with, the OM.
> 
> Many WW never stop doing their BH and some wind up doing the BH even more.
> 
> Both are normal responses.
> 
> What this OP has is a WW that has stopped the affair but has not detoxed from her addiction to her OM.
> 
> Now whether she has had a marriage of poor sex, good sex, or great sex. Her WW fogged brain has her still feeling sex with the OM was the greatest. Dealing with feelings will not result in rational decisions. If that could be so then there would be many less affairs.
> 
> For many WW sex during an affair was ok, even nothing to write home about. Though for them sex was gadly given up for the emotional needs that the OM was meeting.
> 
> WW wanted the OM to continue meeting those needs so they put out.
> 
> For many WW the sex was either mind blowing, or the rush from doing something forbidden as affair sex made average sex appear to be mind blowing.
> 
> Couple that with that a WW re wrote her marital history to justify her banging the OM she painted her BH as a villain, a dud, not worth her time.
> 
> The WW mindset during the affair must be removed and the healthy mind set that WW had for her BH has to be restored.
> 
> That is a big part of recovery. Telling the OP to push for sex, attacking his WW is not productive at getting his WW to mourn the loss of her OM and detox from her addiction to the OM.
> 
> A low cost book, Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley will give this BH more tools to get his marriage back on track then over half of the advice given on this thread.


I've read Surviving An Affair and although I agree it was a very good book I don't remember anything in it that would address this situation. Could you elaborate?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

LanieB said:


> As for insisting she have sex with him - - that sounds kinda gross to me (for both of them). That being said, I would think she would want to try anyway (sex), whether she was 100% into it or not. If I were a WW and wanted to save my marriage, I'd being doing it and hoping it would help turn things around. Because NOT having sex isn't going to help anything.


Perhaps reading too much into it, but my issue is her apparent unwillingness to go that extra step for her husband when she did it in the past to keep her affair going. I agree that requiring sex from her is likely not the way to go, but she seems to be giving it grudgingly - almost with the attitude of "I know I have to have sex with my husband but I don't have to like it." Again, something she mustered at least some enthusiasm for in the past, but now that she no longer has to lie, she does not want to be bothered?


----------



## Blue Firefly

LanieB said:


> As for insisting she have sex with him - - that sounds kinda gross to me (for both of them).


Apparently, she had no problem having sex with her husband while she was having affair sex with the OM.

Now that she can't have affair sex with the OM, she doesn't want to have sex with her husband.

What's changed? It certainly isn't her husband. He's the same guy she was having sex with until recently.

Insisting his wife have sex with him isn't weird or gross, since she has been doing it with him pretty regularly until recently.


----------



## lordmayhem

LanieB said:


> As for Harrison, he needs to do some digging and make sure the A isn't still in progress.


:iagree:

He says he's 100% sure there is NC via keylogger on the computer and GPS. But now that she's been found out, there are ways to evade those surveillance methods, especially if she knows about them. He hasn't mentioned the use of VARS either. We've seen other WS exclusively use their smart phone for their affairs or have a secret affair/burner phone. Rdmu's WW evaded the GPS by having OM pick her up or the OM come to the house or at her work. There's also work email (if she has one) to consider. 

This was/is a LTA, and he's being TT'd big time. 2-3 year affair and they had sex 4 times? Seriously? :bsflag:


----------



## NaturalHeart

Am I missing a post because HARRISON has not replied since 4/23/2013 at 7:50 am......................


----------



## happyman64

Harrison

If you still love your wife what is another 6 months to wait?

But while you are waiting do a few things:

Check those var's daily. Especially in her car.

Work on you. Get your anger under control.

Work on the issues that you can control so that no matter what happens to your marriage you come out as a better man.

Stay close to your kids. Your D was very brave to come to you. Make sure you comfort her because I am sure she has mixed emotions about what she did. Any kid would.

Hm64


----------



## LongWalk

:lol:


LanieB said:


> When I posted, _"As for insisting she have sex with him - - that sounds kinda gross to me (for both of them)", _I was thinking of this post specifically. (Sorry Chapparal!!  But _EWWWWW!!)_
> 
> As for how to get her to have sex again . . . . I guess Harrison would have to make it clear that there is no R until she's all in. Otherwise, GTFO! ??? How's that for a plan?


Reverse cowgirl and ride into the sunset


----------



## LongWalk

chapparal said:


> I think, and this may sound harsh, that you should keep it simple. Tell her you do not wang to go somewhere else for sex. Tell her she will have to do, that she will just have to put up with it.
> 
> Take her to bed tell her to get on top but turn around where she doesn't have to look at you.
> 
> Tell her she has to do the work and the quicker and better she is the faster she can go back to the couch.
> 
> Otherwise you are going to be played for a long time if not forever.
> 
> If shd refuses put her clothes in a garbage bage and help her out the door.
> 
> I know personally this can work. You only need pity sex one time. Put her in the drivers seat and when she HAS to get you off, she s going to have a hard time not getting off herself. The big problem here is breaking the ice.


Reverse cowgirl and ride into the sunset


----------



## Chaparral

LanieB said:


> When I posted, _"As for insisting she have sex with him - - that sounds kinda gross to me (for both of them)", _I was thinking of this post specifically. (Sorry Chapparal!!  But _EWWWWW!!)_
> 
> As for how to get her to have sex again . . . . I guess Harrison would have to make it clear that there is no R until she's all in. Otherwise, GTFO! ??? How's that for a plan?


I meant for it to be weird not gross. This is a fitness test. Making her do the work keeps her from dissing him and just being a receptacle. The best part is I think she will have a good chance of enjoying it.


At this point he is failng her test.


----------



## harrison

I am not missing any of your advice! I have been reading all of your responses and considering everything said. I must say that I am really in a bad place right now. I WAS sure that there is no contact, but I am becoming more skeptical as I read. I WILL continue to surveil her, and step up those efforts.

I do still love my wife, and that is why I am giving this more time. I will file for divorce if there comes a point that I can't take it anymore, or if I find out that she is still seeing him. Meanwhile, I am taking care of myself and preparing mentally for doing so, if need be.

Some of the advice on here, such as forcing her to do this or that, backing her into a corner, etc..., will not work to save my marriage, only to end it. I understand she is not in reconciliation yet. I am waiting to see if she will get there.

My family is important to me and I want to give every opportunity I can to keep my family together. No, this does not mean I am willing to live with a wh*re, or with someone who does not love me. We WERE in love at one time, and I hope that she soon remembers.

I am a christian man and I do believe in forgiveness, but earning my forgiveness does not mean that she can do whatever she wants for as long as she wants. So far, I have zero physical evidence that she is still seeing him. I think she is still in the fog, probably to give her a reason for doing what she did.

I also agree that she is not 100% remorseful. I don't know what to say about that. It hurts. If at some point in time if I realize that she will not truly reconcile I will divorce.

Please keep the dialogue going. I am listening.


----------



## Decorum

JCD said:


> And what did I say about that?
> 
> 
> 
> There is it in black and white (depending on how you set your browser)
> 
> And what did I say if she goes three years pining, Decorum?
> 
> 
> 
> Oops. My mistake. I never said he should wait 3 years. I said he should see some movement within six months or....or...
> 
> Oh...I said he should walk!
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> Okay. I'm out.
> 
> Harrison, PM me if you want some advice.



3 years? You must have a smude on your bifocals.

I said his wife had an affair for 3 years, and put out a lot of exciting sex, but now that she is in "R" she is not interested in sex, for all the reasons you have stated I'm sure.

In her case (slaters ww) I dont think she is into him, she is lazy and is just staying for the kids (she admits), she may never change, it seems like its more than just fog or whatever, she may have NEVER really been into him.

Slaters WW's interest seems directly related to his proximity to divorce.

My caution to harrison is to find out the why of it, this may seem contrary to your position, but I put no time frame on it, he just needs to be alert to the reason, and maybe to act differently if needed.

Yeah you are getting beat up a bit here JCD but not by me my post was for the op. He can judge for himself.

Why you are adressing me I have no idea, I guess you felt that I was calling you out on something, no offense, I usually stop to read your posts to get your perspective, but I almost never am interested in the debate phase of these threads ( I read them but have no interesting grabbing the tonfa to grind it out), if i'm going to grind somthing into fine flower I want to smell it baking as bread in the oven. 

6 months is a very reasonable time!!!

I think your pulling us back from the "kick her to the curb" mentality is a needed balance, and I have learned a lot about how a ws recovers from what you have said, I dont believe any human being is disposable, so all valid points.

BTW I bet you come back and peek.


----------



## harrison

Regarding sex:

I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.

I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.

On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.

Thoughts?


----------



## warlock07

harrison said:


> I am not missing any of your advice! I have been reading all of your responses and considering everything said. I must say that I am really in a bad place right now. I WAS sure that there is no contact, but I am becoming more skeptical as I read. I WILL continue to surveil her, and step up those efforts.
> 
> I do still love my wife, and that is why I am giving this more time. I will file for divorce if there comes a point that I can't take it anymore, or if I find out that she is still seeing him. Meanwhile, I am taking care of myself and preparing mentally for doing so, if need be.
> 
> Some of the advice on here, such as forcing her to do this or that, backing her into a corner, etc..., will not work to save my marriage, only to end it. I understand she is not in reconciliation yet. I am waiting to see if she will get there.
> 
> My family is important to me and I want to give every opportunity I can to keep my family together. No, this does not mean I am willing to live with a wh*re, or with someone who does not love me. We WERE in love at one time, and I hope that she soon remembers.
> 
> I am a christian man and I do believe in forgiveness, but earning my forgiveness does not mean that she can do whatever she wants for as long as she wants. So far, I have zero physical evidence that she is still seeing him. I think she is still in the fog, probably to give her a reason for doing what she did.
> 
> I also agree that she is not 100% remorseful. I don't know what to say about that. It hurts. If at some point in time if I realize that she will not truly reconcile I will divorce.
> 
> Please keep the dialogue going. I am listening.



How are you monitoring her ?


----------



## BK23

harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.
> 
> On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.
> 
> Thoughts?


I hate to say this, but I think she doesn't want to cheat on her OM with you.


----------



## Blue Firefly

BK23 said:


> I hate to say this, but I think she doesn't want to cheat on her OM with you.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the trend that when a woman is having an affair and starts to develop feelings of love for the OM she stops having vaginal sex with her husband and instead starts "volunteering" BJ's and other non-vaginal sex acts?

The thinking is that vaginal-sex is "real sex," while BJ's aren't. She is rationalizing that she is being sexually loyal to the OM by reserving the "real sex" for the OM.

Meanwhile, the husband thinks he has died and gone to heaven, because his wife is now giving him daily BJ's (she's even the one suggesting them). Never realizing this is a symptom of a problem: that his wife has emotionally shifted her loyalties to another man.


----------



## cledus_snow

maybe you can try "changing it up" a bit. maybe something adventurous...... something her and OM haven't done.


----------



## BobSimmons

It's pity sex. 

It's let him get his rocks off so he won't bother me sex.

It's he's a man if I give him sex it will throw off any suspicions sex.

Your wife has no desire for you. What's she's doing is a chore, much like housework, it has to be done to keep things in order, except it's not the house that needs order..it's your lives. So she's still bonded to OM right? Give you what you need and you'll leave her alone. 

Clothes off, minimum contact, she will not violate the sacred bond she established with OM. You've been reduced to..sorry.. oral she doesn't enjoy and a perfunctory act, she's sees you getting off and all she feels is pity, at least I gave him that, it will be over soon..

So it comes to a point where you want it regularly, no intimacy, no spark, just an act. She start to cringe when she walks to the bedroom..she didn't want to do it the first time but did it so you'd leave her alone for a while, she's walking to the room and she doesn't want to do it.. it's not like when she was with OM..

You get it? Everything you are doing is just reinforcing the torch she's carrying for OM. Your cold "sex" to their hot passion. Your pleading to his dominance..

Christian man, family man..doesn't mean squat. You're still getting walked all over. It's you! Still no consequences. It would seem religion doesn't preclude a man just needing to get his rocks off because he's going to "explode" I'm not belittling but you can throw being religious and virtuous as an excuse for being passive..and time waiting for something to magically happen isn't going to replace OM as the object of her desire.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.
> 
> On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.
> 
> Thoughts?


Consider cooling things down a bit. Less affection on your part, no initiation of sex, adding a bit of distance. Even rejecting if you feel it is being done out of pity.

You may be coming across as clinging and smothering. Pulling back a bit may give her some space (as well as make her wonder a bit).


----------



## Acabado

Tall Average Guy said:


> Consider cooling things down a bit. Less affection on your part, no initiation of sex, adding a bit of distance. Even rejecting if you feel it is being done out of pity.
> 
> You may be coming across as clinging and smothering. Pulling back a bit may give her some space (as well as make her wonder a bit).


And stop being predictable. Don't volunteer your schedule, come and go as you please.
Start, as a mattrr of fact, giving a sh1t.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: My wife cheated, wants to reconcile, but won't have sex*



harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.
> 
> On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.
> 
> Thoughts?


She gave you oral sex like she would as if she were cooking your favorite dinner. She feels no passion for you at all. She feels sorry for you. Nothing more.


----------



## Decorum

Personally I would relieve myself before I would take the scraps she is giving you.

I got to the point in my own marriage that I would rather just wait to make love to my wife rather that take duty or pity sex.

If the relationship is healthy I dont think those mean much once in a while, but in your case I think she will keep losing respect for you and see you as needy.

Here is an interesting thread from a woman perspective who realized how she was rejecting her husband.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-now-how-i-get-my-husband-trust-me-again.html

Honestly though I feel like we really do not know what your wife is really thinking or feeling, and she must not be forthcomming with it, if she even really understands it. If that were more clear then your course of action would be more clear. 

Try to focus more on what is really happening in her heart and head, seek her out as a person and see if she hides herself from you.
That will tell you much.

Really listening to her could go a long way.

Welcome to limbo.


----------



## russell28

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


It sounds like she wants to be with the other guy? Have you told her to just go for it, if she wants him so bad... and when she leaves, lock the doors? I also suggest throwing your bed out, it made me feel better and sends a pretty strong message about what you're feeling at that moment. Move furniture too.. that's helping me cope. Let her know when to pick up her stuff.. and that if she wants the bed, she can have it. If not, new bed delivery guys will take the old one.

She's having an issue with lack of empathy... tell her if she shows some remorse and acts like less of a jerk you'll consider thinking about perhaps maybe letting her back.


----------



## MrQuatto

BobSimmons said:


> Your wife has no desire for you. What's she's doing is a chore, much like housework, it has to be done to keep things in order, except it's not the house that needs order..it's your lives. So she's still bonded to OM right? Give you what you need and you'll leave her alone.
> 
> So it comes to a point where you want it regularly, no intimacy, no spark, just an act. She start to cringe when she walks to the bedroom..she didn't want to do it the first time but did it so you'd leave her alone for a while, she's walking to the room and she doesn't want to do it.. it's not like when she was with OM..
> 
> .


I'm sorry to say but he is right. I she has no passion, I don't see how the marriage can work in any other way than a marriage of convenience.


----------



## theroad

BK23 said:


> I hate to say this, but I think she doesn't want to cheat on her OM with you.



That and WW can not want to have sex because of guilt, embarassment, not detoxed from the OM addiction. As well as any combination of those things.


----------



## walkonmars

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I would also comment that the OP came across as very weak when he asked her to lay in bed naked so that he could beat off and jizz on her stomach. Dude, I know you are hurting very badly right now. *But you NEED to maintain some self respect. If you don't respect yourself, your WW sure as hell won't either.*


:iagree:


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Life is too short to have to beg your own wife for sex.


----------



## Chaparral

You really , really need to read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. ITS AN EMERGENCY. There is a link below. You are hurting yourself by the way you are acting around yor wife. Asking her to let you use her stomach is hilarious. She must have thought that was pathetic. You are not acting like a strong man. That is a death blow to any marriage. She was comparing you to the other man at that moment and you came up wanting. Good Lord.


----------



## carolinadreams

harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.
> 
> On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.
> 
> Thoughts?


File for divorce, that will get the juices flowing again. 

Your brain is short circuiting because you feel unmanned, and you are trying to balance and hold mutually conflicting thoughts in your head. 

Read this next statement carefully, because I am absolutely not advocating rape or anything close to it. Once consent is implied, or granted women - don't generally want to be asked. Honey can I pwease pwease put my penis inside you ? 

Lay it on the line for her:, [Wife's name] when you come to bed tonight, you're going to climb on top and ride me like your marriage depends on it, then I'm going to flip you over and bang the ***** out of you (use what ever phrasing floats your boat). Our marital bed is for our pleasure, get ready for it.

If she still can't get with the program roll out a sleep bag for her in the basement. That begging and pleading needs to go into the trash ASAP. If she's not doing everything in her power to retain her status as your wife after her betrayal, then you are simply not in reconciliation, the affair is still in effect and your wife is using you for lodging, cash, and what have you.

Stop caring if she likes it for a moment, and be selfish for a second. Pleasing our lovers is great, but this woman owes you a spiritual, emotional, and physical debt. She's making you plead for what she gave enthusiastically to another man.


----------



## Remains

jnj express said:


> I am sorry---but I don't agree in this---why is everyone so worried whether he gets sex or not
> 
> Why does he even WANT sex from a woman, who was his so-called wife---who gave herself to another man, and basically has told her H, to go to he*l---I have no respect for you, and I don't want to share one of the basic parts of mge with you---that being the physical satisfaction
> 
> Why not just say "screw you" right back to her---I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole, cuz basically you are filthy due to your lover touching you all over, and being inside of you
> 
> One who thinks of nothing but following his own wife's, lover, sex wise----can NOT HAVE ANY SELF RESPECT----sorry that some will disagree with me---but it is just the way I feel about it


jnj, I am sure your advice used to be quite good. I am sure you used to give thoughtful advice in your posts (correct me if I am wrong). Now, whenever I see your posts, the advice is just coming from a bitter sounding and aggressive POV. You have no empathy anymore and it is sad to see. 

And because your advice is so aggressive, your meaning is not conveyed. I generally ignore your posts now after reading the 1st line or 2 and realise it is just another rant. Each poster is different and requires different treatment albeit the same, mostly, advice. 

If you cannot give help then why bother. Each time you just give opinion. Yours. And none if it has 'help for the OP' in it. 

Come back jnj from the dark place you are in.


----------



## alte Dame

This thread is heartbreaking to me.

Harrison, an extremely important element in a marriage is respect for your spouse's dignity. Without this simple but fundamental thing, contempt can creep in & that is a death knell for a relationship.

I understand that a R requires a lot of work and patience & you can't demand that a WS suddenly erase feelings for the AP that have developed over time. With time and the right work, this can happen. And most important, with real dedication, the trust can be rebuilt to some extent.

Your WW, however, shows very little concern for your dignity as a man and human being. Her attitude is contemptuous. A WS that brings outward contempt to a R is not worth the effort, in my opinion, and certainly not worth the pain. Definitely not worth the pain. She has already hurt you so much. She seems not only oblivious to your pain but contemptuous of it.

As so many say, life is too short to live it like this. You deserve so much more. Why shouldn't you be respected? What have you really done in your life to be treated this way? I also suspect that her A is either still active or the OM is very much in her head - even so, that explains but doesn't excuse her complete lack of compassion.


----------



## carpenoctem

Harrison:

*A Caveat:

If you wait for her to come back to you thus, waiting by her bed like a sexual mendicant, even if she does come back to you one day, you might / would begin to hate yourself someday, in retrospect. And that might alter your then treatment of her.

Self-respect, if subdued by force, might come back to bite you in the gluteus someday, as self-hatred.*



If she is mourning the loss of another man, so are you mourning the loss of your wife (as you knew her). If she is lamenting the disintegration of her fantasyland, you are lamenting the disintegration of your marriage, family and home. Is she is missing her orgasms and emotional connect, so are you.

She misses no more than you do. She has lost no more than you have. In fact, you have lost MUCH more.

Why is YOUR pain any less than hers? *Why is your need for sex any less than the Other Man’s? Is his phallus made of gold, and yours, playdough?*

Why this demeaning of your self-worth, for an eponymous Reconciliation?

It’s time to stand up for yourself, Sir. This is not about your marriage alone. It is about you being able to respect what you see in the mirror.

It is about YOU.


(Unfortunately, the only way to immediately emphasize your own Sexual Market Value in her eyes (and perhaps jolt her back to seeing you as a desirable man again) is to have another woman evince sexual interest in you / a Revenge Affair – with legions of its own negatives, and is perhaps inadvisable).



*Now, she KNOWS you are waiting for her to thaw, and perhaps return to the marriage. She KNOWS you have the empathy to do that (to wait).*

*She also needs to KNOW that you might want to quit the marriage. She needs to KNOW that you have the courage / will / self-respect & resoluteness to do that also (to walk).*

*Let her choose between marriage and divorce. Not between marriage and limbo marriage (she currently seems to think that choice exists. Maybe you should take that choice / perception away).*


----------



## lordmayhem

harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.


*OMG.*


----------



## Ovid

In my mind morning the loss of the OM is a continuation of the A. I'd treat it as such.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains

Harrison, don't take all you hear personally. Please I beg you don't. 

Please do stand up for yourself though, just as posters here are advising you to do with your wife.

Try and separate the meaning from the post, separate the advice from the negative criticism. Posters, overly critical or helpful, are all basically saying the same thing. There needs to be some assertiveness coming from you and being directed at your wife.


----------



## The bishop

I know you don't want to hear this and I know you aren't going to take this advice. You are way to scared of losing her to do what you need too to have a chance to save your marriage. 

I am a cheater and I promise you, the way you are acting and the way you think is going to work to get her back won't. It just makes you look weaker and weaker in her eyes and that is not attractive at all. The wife you love and the one that loved you is gone forever. That wife wouldn't of cheated on you, this one did, this wife was so into the OM, your daughter found out and after you found out she still continued her affair.

It was only when the one time you showed some strength she "says" it over. A two year affair doesn't just end.... You have to kill it. You went weak again and I am certain she has went underground with it or just buying time before she starts it up again.

I am not saying it is useless and to file, I am saying that weak BS's who beg and cry, who allow their WS to call the shots after DDay, and wait in gut wrenching pain and hope or pray their wife will miraculously come back are sorely disappointed. It hardly happens and when it does while allowing the affair to be rug sweeped, they come back here some time in the future to saying it happened again, sometimes with the original OM or just another because the pull and high of an affair,especially when it has been a major point of your life for a couple years (like your wife), is just to strong. Because they know that they can walk all over you. They have been since the affair began.

You want to save your marriage, stop being scared to lose it.


----------



## The bishop

I give you the above advice as a cheater who's spouse has done the exact opposite of you, and I have a very very little chance of ever getting her or my family back.....and I would do anything to have just that slim chance. She calls the shots, not me.

I wish my estranged spouse was like you (all cheaters do), I thought she was.


----------



## Simon Phoenix

Good grief. Wow. Holy smokes. 

You know the old saying 'I cried because I didn't have shoes until I saw a man who didn't have feet'? I thought that things went off the train tracks with my WW but this tops it by a wide margin.

Let me get this straight...

She had a 2-year affair with a mutual friend (while only having sex with him four times? Yeah, and I dunked over Lebron and scored 43 for the Bucks last night, too), got caught, and is so 'disgusted' by her affair with him that she doesn't want anything physically to do with you? And even when she does relents and gives you the occasional BJ, she's still whining about it?

Dude, can you see the writing on the wall? I can. It reads...

THIS. MARRIAGE. IS. OVER.

A poster wrote this earlier in this thread and bears repeating, as I'm currently doing a book project that speaks to topics like this. One of the main reasons why she doesn't have the passion to get busy with you anymore (if she ever did in the first place) is because she views you as the second option, the fallback plan, the Intercontinental champion. She had multiple trysts with this guy and did every XXX-rated thing imaginable while with him. Just think of the most lucid sex scene you could think of happening in a hotel room, the backseat of a car, a stairwell, any room in your house. Now I would be willing to bet my next paycheck (and most of the posters here would too) that not a single mention of the light bill, PTA meetings, finances, lawn care, doctor appointments, or what gifts to buy for Christmas was shared between them. She got at least two years of seeing this guy AT HIS VERY BEST; something that you will never, EVER be able to duplicate in her mind. While you spent the last umpteen years arguing with her about finances, bills, and seeing the parents, she only argued with him over what sex position they would start things up with.

This is why she doesn't have it in her to kiss you anymore. This is why you have to beg and plead with her for just a BJ session that she quickly relegated to a chore after doing it. I'll bet she had no problem at all doing that for the OM; he probably didn't even have to ask. She went from this fantasy of Cinderella bliss and multiple orgasms with him to the boring, mundane 'real world' with you. Who wants to go back 'to the farm' after spending a month in an exclusive penthouse in Paris? In her mind, that's exactly what she's doing by 'choosing you' instead of him. 

Now ask yourself; do you really think of yourself as a consolation prize? Because that's her current view of you. Take it from me; it's not the most pleasurable experience.

I know that you're trying to 'do the right thing' for your kids and all but for once, be a little selfish for just a moment. What has she done to earn the right of staying there? Where is the remorse? Where are the consequences? What has she done to earn back your trust? Just tell you that she won't do it anymore? 

She not only had an affair but has emasculated you to the point where she basically equates having any relations with you to cleaning up the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner. I don't know about you or other folks on this forum but in my little world, if I'm not the top dog in terms of relations with my significant other, she can't possibly be number one in my world; PERIOD. And if you don't have that, there is absolutely positively NO SHOT OF RECONCILIATION. I could not possibly fathom settling for being just in the top-8 of a woman's BCS poll while in a relationship or just a guy she's waiting to dump after the last kid graduates and leaves the house (dead man walking). That's why I got out; and you should, too.

Wanna try to win her back? Get some self-respect back by giving her the boot....


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Simon Phoenix said:


> Good grief. Wow. Holy smokes.
> 
> You know the old saying 'I cried because I didn't have shoes until I saw a man who didn't have feet'? I thought that things went off the train tracks with my WW but this tops it by a wide margin.
> 
> Let me get this straight...
> 
> She had a 2-year affair with a mutual friend (while only having sex with him four times? Yeah, and I dunked over Lebron and scored 43 for the Bucks last night, too), got caught, and is so 'disgusted' by her affair with him that she doesn't want anything physically to do with you? And even when she does relents and gives you the occasional BJ, she's still whining about it?
> 
> Dude, can you see the writing on the wall? I can. It reads...
> 
> THIS. MARRIAGE. IS. OVER.
> 
> A poster wrote this earlier in this thread and bears repeating, as I'm currently doing a book project that speaks to topics like this. One of the main reasons why she doesn't have the passion to get busy with you anymore (if she ever did in the first place) is because she views you as the second option, the fallback plan, the Intercontinental champion. She had multiple trysts with this guy and did every XXX-rated thing imaginable while with him. Just think of the most lucid sex scene you could think of happening in a hotel room, the backseat of a car, a stairwell, any room in your house. Now I would be willing to bet my next paycheck (and most of the posters here would too) that not a single mention of the light bill, PTA meetings, finances, lawn care, doctor appointments, or what gifts to buy for Christmas was shared between them. She got at least two years of seeing this guy AT HIS VERY BEST; something that you will never, EVER be able to duplicate in her mind. While you spent the last umpteen years arguing with her about finances, bills, and seeing the parents, she only argued with him over what sex position they would start things up with.
> 
> This is why she doesn't have it in her to kiss you anymore. This is why you have to beg and plead with her for just a BJ session that she quickly relegated to a chore after doing it. I'll bet she had no problem at all doing that for the OM; he probably didn't even have to ask. She went from this fantasy of Cinderella bliss and multiple orgasms with him to the boring, mundane 'real world' with you. Who wants to go back 'to the farm' after spending a month in an exclusive penthouse in Paris? In her mind, that's exactly what she's doing by 'choosing you' instead of him.
> 
> Now ask yourself; do you really think of yourself as a consolation prize? Because that's her current view of you. Take it from me; it's not the most pleasurable experience.
> 
> I know that you're trying to 'do the right thing' for your kids and all but for once, be a little selfish for just a moment. What has she done to earn the right of staying there? Where is the remorse? Where are the consequences? What has she done to earn back your trust? Just tell you that she won't do it anymore?
> 
> She not only had an affair but has emasculated you to the point where she basically equates having any relations with you to cleaning up the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner. I don't know about you or other folks on this forum but in my little world, if I'm not the top dog in terms of relations with my significant other, she can't possibly be number one in my world; PERIOD. And if you don't have that, there is absolutely positively NO SHOT OF RECONCILIATION. I could not possibly fathom settling for being just in the top-8 of a woman's BCS poll while in a relationship or just a guy she's waiting to dump after the last kid graduates and leaves the house (dead man walking). That's why I got out; and you should, too.
> 
> Wanna try to win her back? Get some self-respect back by giving her the boot....


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

(BTW, I love the sports references.)


----------



## azteca1986

Simon Phoenix said:


> She got at least two years of seeing this guy AT HIS VERY BEST; something that you will never, EVER be able to duplicate in her mind. While you spent the last umpteen years arguing with her about finances, bills, and seeing the parents, she only argued with him over what sex position they would start things up with.


And if that wasn't bad enough...

When your wife and OM got together they gave eachother a huge dopamine kick. Their affair literally made them high. The wild, forbidden sex was intoxicating which is why she stated she never felt the same feelings with you as she did with him. OM=High. Which means that being back with you and your children gets associated with the withdrawal from that high.


----------



## Simon Phoenix

azteca1986 said:


> And if that wasn't bad enough...
> 
> When your wife and OM got together they gave eachother a huge dopamine kick. Their affair literally made them high. The wild, forbidden sex was intoxicating which is why she stated she never felt the same feelings with you as she did with him. OM=High. Which means that being back with you and your children gets associated with the withdrawal from that high.


Exactly. They say that being in an affair is equivalent to doing crystal meth, heroin, or crack cocaine for the first time. The high one gets from the secretive, double life that takes shape from an affair is one that chemists have tried for centuries to duplicate. *And that's where the passion is*. To her, having sex with you would be like settling for the beaten up Ford Fiesta after riding in the brand new Maybach for the last two years. It doesn't matter how in shape you are or how big your biceps might be. To her, the OM was her favorite rock star/actor/pro athlete with ripped abs, 24" arms, and a 13" personality between his legs. He could do no wrong because she never saw him fall behind on his bills or have to clean the skidmarks from his underwear. All she got from him was a wide smile, followed by 2-3 hours of him delivering the high, hard one. What part of a marriage, which you quoted her as saying she didn't have the passion for previously, could possibly follow that act?

And that's one of the things that led to me finally filing the paperwork. She did things with the OM that she'll never EVER, EVER want to do with you because it would be like a cheap imitation. Don't you find it odd that a lot of romance novels that are read by women involve steamy love scenes that DO NOT involve a married couple? This guy is the husband in the novel whose wife had two years of hot, steamy sex with a guy who touched her in the right spots at precisely the right time. Now she has to come back home but the desire to hit the reset button is the reason she looks at his manhood as if sulfuric acid is in it. The only reason she came back was to continue the marital façade of getting the kids through school. But after the last one graduates, well...


----------



## alte Dame

Simon Phoenix said:


> To her, having sex with you would be like settling for the beaten up Ford Fiesta after riding in the brand new Maybach for the last two years. It doesn't matter how in shape you are or how big your biceps might be. To her, the OM was her favorite rock star/actor/pro athlete with ripped abs, 24" arms, and a 13" personality between his legs. He could do no wrong because she never saw him fall behind on his bills or have to clean the skidmarks from his underwear. All she got from him was a wide smile, followed by 2-3 hours of him delivering the high, hard one. What part of a marriage, which you quoted her as saying she didn't have the passion for previously, could possibly follow that act?




Just a timeout to tell you you've got style, SP.


----------



## Remains

Fine posts Simon Phoenix!

I think you have said it all. 

Harrison, think about what you want from your marriage, and then think about how you can go about getting it. Make a plan of action to make what you want happen. And if not with her, make it happen with someone else.


----------



## RWB

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it...
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> *Any advice?*


*In Short... Bail Out... Geronimo! *

Simon Phoenix assessment is spot on. No need to repeat here. 

That being said, from my own experience... When I caught my wife cheating, she had re-united with the old college BF. Her first real love... da-de-da. Anyway, after 30 years of marriage to me, she had finally found her shining star, was ready to move out, a build "something different, something new, something real." Our kids were grown and out of the house.

My first words to her, good luck, I won't compete with affairs, I am who I am. I then offered her a ride (100 miles) to start her new life. 

Get it Harrison?... no begging, no pleading, no whining. Your afraid you are going to lose her? She has already left.


----------



## Machiavelli

harrison said:


> Regarding sex:
> 
> I should add that three weeks ago I told her that I was ready to explode. I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes per my request. I was thrilled that she was willing, and so a few days later I asked her again. She gave me oral sex, and again removed her clothes. Two days after that, I asked again, and she was willing, but I could tell she was put off as she was headed to the bedroom. I asked her what the problem was, and she told me that she had done it the first time because she WANTED to do it.
> 
> I asked her if she did not want to now, and she said that she would, but she was feeling pressured. She also added that she only did it because it was something nice for me. I asked her if she got anything out of doing it for me (mentally), and she said only that she enjoyed making me feel good, but when I pressured her for it, the enjoyment of giving was not there.
> 
> On a side note: One of the posts asked if I was reasonably good looking/in shape. I am attractive and athletic. My wife is also.
> 
> Thoughts?


Man, you're way too delta, in case you don't know, that's below beta. By assuming this position with your ass in the air, begging her for sex...man, that's a huge turn off to a woman. Even the gift of R, which they should be dammed grateful for, is something that lowers your masculinity to some degree in their not-so-rational limbic brain, which is where sexual desire originates for women.

Before a woman crosses the adultery line, there is usually a a period of subconscious devaluation of the BH as a valid reproductive partner. It seems to be a pretty normal turn of events for high levels of sexual attraction to be lost and replaced by the Seven Year Itch, now the four-year-itch. This has been going on for a while, then capped with an affair, and you're still begging for sex. You're violating The Sixteen Commandments. Have you read MMSLP? If not, download and read it tonight. It will explain to you who you got here.


----------



## carmen ohio

harrison,

Truth be told, like so many other beta males who come to TAM, you don't have the b*lls to divorce your cheating wife and don't understand that -- unitil you do and until she realizes that you do -- you will not win back her affection. You may muddle through for a while, swallowing what is left of your pride, but eventually you will lose her, either to another man or because you will become so miserable and desperate that you will not be able to take it any more.

Women like strong men and, to one degree or another, despise weak men. You are a weak man. That's why our wife has no sexual interest in you. If you show her strength, there is a good chance that her sexual interest in you will be rekindled.

One way to do this is by telling her that you can no longer live with a woman who doesn't love you, filing for divorce and starting to emotionally disengage from her (i.e.,doing the 180). You don't have to follow through with the divorce if she responds by beginning to show real remorse (she hasn't so far) and trying to win you back (which includes offering you sex). But if she doesn't do these things, why wouldn't you divorce her? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a woman who has no respect for you and doesn't love you?

Man up. Be strong. Start getting on with you life. Maybe she will change into someone you want. Maybe she won't. But you will at least be closer to the day when you have a woman by your side who wants to be there.


P.S.: Read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay to learn how to become the kind of man that women want to be around. It will give you a new perspective, one that you really need.


----------



## happyman64

Harrison
I know you probably feel you are getting beat up. Read Rookie4's thread. He loved his wife. The. Divorced his wife. 

The. He Sowed his oats and healed. 

His Exw has chased him since and they are Reconciling. 

The key there is his Exw faced consequences. 

Your wife has faced no consequences from you. Until she does she will not even comprehend what destruction her Infidelity has caused you, your marriage or your family. 

Time to get tough Harison 

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

In cave man terms your wife does not view you as the hunter she needs to reward and bond with.

On a pure biology level women should not need men. Think bsck to cave msn days. We get them pregnant if the give us sex, which puts them at risk of death, and burdens them with a child to care for. 

So why then are women driven to have sex? Why not go hide in packs in caves together away from the males? A big part of the answer is that women are social and want both status on the tribe, which means the tribe values them, and they want protection and meat from our hunting.

So they are driven to provide sex to build an emotional bond in the man to get him to make feeding her and protecting her his priority, nd to provide for her children.

There are couple kinds of guys that women have to deal with - one is the kind that she must continue to attract and compete for, and the other is the kind that will stick around in hopes that she will throw him a scap or two.

Biologically, the scrap or two guy gets only a scrap or two because her body shuts down the production of desire drive in her because she doesn't need it.

You don't want to become the scrap or two guy, and that's the battle we wage in our modem society as men. The forces of society want us men to act like successful hunters when it comes to career etc, but accepting of scraps from our wives because to do otherwise would be acting like a cave man.

The problem you are facing is that your wife's body is not producing desire for you hormones because in part she does not sense the need to keep you bonded to her. She believes that the reasons you might leave aren't related to sex from her, and so she gains no advantage by giving that to you. Unfortunately she's been able to keep you around with scraps which further reinforced that conclusion at a bio level.


----------



## carpenoctem

Shaggy said:


> The problem you are facing is that your wife's body is not producing desire for you hormones because in part she does not sense the need to keep you bonded to her. *She believes that the reasons you might leave aren't related to sex from her, and so she gains no advantage by giving that to you. Unfortunately she's been able to keep you around with scraps which further reinforced that conclusion at a bio level.*



There is the anthropo-sexological investigation report for your situation, Harrison.

Do you have the energy and fight left in you, to amp up your sex rank? Not for her, but for yourself. If she sees it and responds, and if you still want her, well and good.

*If not, there are others out there. Women who can differentiate fellatio from vacuum-cleaning.*

*Heck, if Shrek and I could get good women, so can you.*


----------



## carpenoctem

Machiavelli said:


> *Before a woman crosses the adultery line, there is usually a a period of subconscious devaluation of the BH as a valid reproductive partner.*


QFT.

And many husbands who feel / sense an emotional slide, try to 'nice' them back, with the opposite result - because nice is not usually what they crave for -- just the opposite.

Right then, she is not attracted to the giver, but the taker.

*But if the husband tries to 'take', he is seen as a brute. When another man does it, that is soooooo attractive and sexy.*

Such a loaded dice, being a spouse.


----------



## barbados

harrison said:


> I asked if she would be okay with me masturbating with her naked in bed with me, and if she would allow me to ejaculate on her stomach. She suggested oral sex instead, and she also removed all her clothes *per my request*.


Harrison. I want you to read this to yourself again and again. These are your words. This is what you have allowed yourself to accept from *YOUR* wife. Add to this that your own daughter had to tell you that mommy was cheating on you.

Every holiday, every special family event, every time she freaking goes to the store alone, will be tainted by her total betrayal of you. Your case is not one meant for R.

You said that you are athletic and good looking ? Then I predict many women in your future and eventually another life partner if you so choose, but only if you realize NOW, that D is called for ASAP !


----------



## LongWalk

Shaggy said:


> In cave man terms your wife does not view you as the hunter she needs to reward and bond with.
> 
> On a pure biology level women should not need men. Think bsck to cave msn days. We get them pregnant if the give us sex, which puts them at risk of death, and burdens them with a child to care for.
> 
> So why then are women driven to have sex? Why not go hide in packs in caves together away from the males? A big part of the answer is that women are social and want both status on the tribe, which means the tribe values them, and they want protection and meat from our hunting.
> 
> So they are driven to provide sex to build an emotional bond in the man to get him to make feeding her and protecting her his priority, nd to provide for her children.
> 
> There are couple kinds of guys that women have to deal with - one is the kind that she must continue to attract and compete for, and the other is the kind that will stick around in hopes that she will throw him a scap or two.
> 
> Biologically, the scrap or two guy gets only a scrap or two because her body shuts down the production of desire drive in her because she doesn't need it.
> 
> You don't want to become the scrap or two guy, and that's the battle we wage in our modem society as men. The forces of society want us men to act like successful hunters when it comes to career etc, but accepting of scraps from our wives because to do otherwise would be acting like a cave man.
> 
> The problem you are facing is that your wife's body is not producing desire for you hormones because in part she does not sense the need to keep you bonded to her. She believes that the reasons you might leave aren't related to sex from her, and so she gains no advantage by giving that to you. Unfortunately she's been able to keep you around with scraps which further reinforced that conclusion at a bio level.


No one teaches young men to understand  this. The soccer star Ronaldo wrote "you, me fvck" on a napkin and gave it to the waitress. She did it instinctively. ONS = pregnancy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Well, we've managed to badger and insult another guy into running for the hills as we called him weak, a cuckold, an idiot and wimpy.

Good work guys.


----------



## Machiavelli

JCD said:


> Well, we've managed to badger and insult another guy into running for the hills as we called him weak, a cuckold, an idiot and wimpy.
> 
> Good work guys.


Would it help to tell him he's Casanova?

I had a guy on here once tell me if his wife responded sexually to him having a six pack, he didn't want her. If you won't invest the effort, you won't get the payoff.


----------



## JCD

Machiavelli said:


> Would it help to tell him he's Casanova?
> 
> I had a guy on here once tell me if his wife responded sexually to him having a six pack, he didn't want her. If you won't invest the effort, you won't get the payoff.


Well, maybe...just MAYBE it might be helpful to not go straight for the jugular EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Maybe hold off on telling guys that their wives will NEVER EVER get sweaty panties for them if they aren't shaped like some Italian statue of a male prostitute by a gay guy with a 3% body fat level. Because some guys aren't built that way and will NEVER appeal to Renaissance Gay Sculptors...oops...sorry...women! 

If only there was some way to convey these issues in a way that didn't shatter self esteem, destroy hope, or seem needlessly and gratuitously insulting.

Starts with a D...it's on the tip of my tongue...

Edited to add: If *I* am calling people on being callous, it's pretty bad.


----------



## Machiavelli

JCD said:


> Well, maybe...just MAYBE it might be helpful to not go straight for the jugular EVERY SINGLE TIME.
> 
> Maybe hold off on telling guys that their wives will NEVER EVER get sweaty panties for them if they aren't shaped like some Italian statue of a male prostitute by a gay guy with a 3% body fat level. Because some guys aren't built that way and will NEVER appeal to Renaissance Gay Sculptors...oops...sorry...women!


Homosexual men and heterosexual women have similar thoughts and are after the same thing. While it's true that not all men have the genetics to achieve a 6/8/10 pack, all men can achieve a 4 pack and the "Golden Ratio." It's a proven fact that women respond to Golden Ratio, six packs, and visible inguinal ligaments. When ovulating they are excited by facial scars and muscle mass in the upper body; markers of fighting ability.

The simple fact is that nature is stacked for the 80/20 rule in reproduction and the matriarchy and its disinformation about what excites women ain't helping the 80% one bit.


----------



## JCD

Machiavelli said:


> Homosexual men and heterosexual women have similar thoughts and are after the same thing. While it's true that not all men have the genetics to achieve a 6/8/10 pack, all men can achieve a 4 pack and the "Golden Ratio." It's a proven fact that women respond to Golden Ratio, six packs, and visible inguinal ligaments. When ovulating they are excited by facial scars and muscle mass in the upper body; markers of fighting ability.
> 
> The simple fact is that nature is stacked for the 80/20 rule in reproduction and the matriarchy and its disinformation about what excites women ain't helping the 80% one bit.



Well, given my perchance for show tunes and women's fashion, my wife always thought I was gay. Thank you for providing the proof that I'm straight.

I have an excellent sense of direction, unlike her.

Tell how easy a 4 pack is to get to an endomorph.


----------



## Remains

An extra LIKE X10 for your last 3 posts JCD, though focussed mostly on the first one.....oh, and the second one too! Oh sod it, focus on all three. I love the show tunes and ladies fashion quip. Alike you in an opposite kind of way, I just love flat caps, pints of beer and thoroughly enjoy wearing my breeches and engaging in street fights. Men fall over themselves trying to be with me! Literally! I have to prod them away with the toes of my steel toe capped boots! 

It really pisses me off seeing antagonistic posts. There is truth and honesty, and there is just plain rude. 

This is a FORUM (not a throw them to the lions arena), people come here for ADVICE. If people prefer to beat up and insult newcomers who are not the perfect fit....hmmm....reminds me of somewhere I went once, many years ago, kinda full of children.....oh yeah, SCHOOL! 

We have all experienced bullying, tactless, rude behaviour before. And very occasionally it has been the shock that helped. Mostly, practically all the time, it has been unhelpful and extremely upsetting and demoralising. Why demoralise someone further who is already probably at the lowest they have ever felt, and seeking some advice to help them help themselves, to drag themselves back up off the floor where they have been trodden on and kicked for good measure? Why do some people here kick them again? 

Some of this bullying is just sooooo unnecessary. Just because you are anonymous doesn't mean you can't use manners as if they were stood right in front of you and was a friend seeking advice.


----------



## Jibril

I can certainly see why some of these posts can be perceived as antagonistic and negative. But you can't really break the spirit and self esteem of a man who has ALREADY had these shattered by the person he trusted most in his life. I've mentioned this before, but there's a tragic sort of irony in the CWI forums, in that faceless and anonymous strangers on the Internet are more caring and willing to help a BS than the person who betrayed said BS. 

Maybe I spend much too much within the Internet culture, but despite how direct and blunted some posts are, and despite the occasional hostile undertones towards the cheater, most posts here are positively enlightening. You have to remember that most posters were/are betrayed spouses themselves. We see BSes post here with blinders on, clinging to the destructive hope that their plight will eventually improve if they just try harder to appease their cheating spouses, to their own detriment. They will get a rude awakening when DDay 2 (or 3, or 4, etc) comes along. Harsh medicine NOW will help them in the long run, if they're willing to take it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cledus_snow

in regards to posts, i say take what you need and leave the rest.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

JCD said:


> Well, we've managed to badger and insult another guy into running for the hills as we called him weak, a cuckold, an idiot and wimpy.
> 
> Good work guys.


Badger?

JCD, interesting choice of words considering your avatar.

The truth does hurt sometimes but I think he needs to hear it.

At least he hasn't deleted the thread like PlantMan and others.

Hopefully, he's lurking and taking in the great advice he's getting.


----------



## LongWalk

Remains said:


> An extra LIKE X10 for your last 3 posts JCD, though focussed mostly on the first one.....oh, and the second one too! Oh sod it, focus on all three. I love the show tunes and ladies fashion quip. Alike you in an opposite kind of way, I just love flat caps, pints of beer and thoroughly enjoy wearing my breeches and engaging in street fights. Men fall over themselves trying to be with me! Literally! I have to prod them away with the toes of my steel toe capped boots!
> 
> It really pisses me off seeing antagonistic posts. There is truth and honesty, and there is just plain rude.
> 
> This is a FORUM (not a throw them to the lions arena), people come here for ADVICE. If people prefer to beat up and insult newcomers who are not the perfect fit....hmmm....reminds me of somewhere I went once, many years ago, kinda full of children.....oh yeah, SCHOOL!
> 
> We have all experienced bullying, tactless, rude behaviour before. And very occasionally it has been the shock that helped. Mostly, practically all the time, it has been unhelpful and extremely upsetting and demoralising. Why demoralise someone further who is already probably at the lowest they have ever felt, and seeking some advice to help them help themselves, to drag themselves back up off the floor where they have been trodden on and kicked for good measure? Why do some people here kick them again?
> 
> Some of this bullying is just sooooo unnecessary. Just because you are anonymous doesn't mean you can't use manners as if they were stood right in front of you and was a friend seeking advice.


Fair criticism, Remains, I hope he reads what you have said. TAM CWI is full of people who wish they done it differently. Each new OP is a chance to make it right but with someone else's life. Many put up with brutal comments that ultimately help them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986

I've observed that the bluntness of posts is directly proportional to the fog that the poor BS finds themselves in.

I hope Harrison is still reading and digesting and will post again when he's ready.


----------



## treyvion

alte Dame said:


> This thread is heartbreaking to me.
> 
> Harrison, an extremely important element in a marriage is respect for your spouse's dignity. Without this simple but fundamental thing, contempt can creep in & that is a death knell for a relationship.
> 
> I understand that a R requires a lot of work and patience & you can't demand that a WS suddenly erase feelings for the AP that have developed over time. With time and the right work, this can happen. And most important, with real dedication, the trust can be rebuilt to some extent.
> 
> Your WW, however, shows very little concern for your dignity as a man and human being. Her attitude is contemptuous. A WS that brings outward contempt to a R is not worth the effort, in my opinion, and certainly not worth the pain. Definitely not worth the pain. She has already hurt you so much. She seems not only oblivious to your pain but contemptuous of it.
> 
> As so many say, life is too short to live it like this. You deserve so much more. Why shouldn't you be respected? What have you really done in your life to be treated this way? I also suspect that her A is either still active or the OM is very much in her head - even so, that explains but doesn't excuse her complete lack of compassion.


When they hold you in contempt, acts of kindness are recieved by the WAS ( male or female ) as acts of weakness. You can't help yourself this way. The only thing you CAN do is to help yourself and also build your respect with her by dealing with her like the opposition that she now is.


----------



## Remains

azteca1986 said:


> I've observed that the bluntness of posts is directly proportional to the fog that the poor BS finds themselves in.


Nail on head! 

Which is why name calling isn't necessarily going to pull them from the fog. 

TBH, just like you cannot nice someone out of an affair, you cannot nice someone out of the fog. Maybe I take my previous post back, tucked under arm for another day! But no! Harsh advice can always be given with manners. 

I think insults just turn people away. Never does an insult make you listen better!


----------



## Remains

cledus_snow said:


> in regards to posts, i say take what you need and leave the rest.


Totally agreed!

But some posters are not used to forums or internet sites of chat. Some may well be virgins to the type of place that has posts from anyone who cares to bother. 

I have mentioned on threads before, ignore the advice you think is silly or antagonistic and just take what is relevant. And yet the OP still feels the need to answer to someone who is just there to stir the pot! Again and again. Annoying!


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Would it help to tell him he's Casanova?
> 
> I had a guy on here once tell me if his wife responded sexually to him having a six pack, he didn't want her. If you won't invest the effort, you won't get the payoff.


Machiavelli,

He gained the six pack while he was with her?


----------



## treyvion

LongWalk said:


> Fair criticism, Remains, I hope he reads what you have said. TAM CWI is full of people who wish they done it differently. Each new OP is a chance to make it right but with someone else's life. Many put up with brutal comments that ultimately help them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree.

After the fact we understand the terrain and we understand how the BS is looking at the picture.


----------



## Machiavelli

cledus_snow said:


> in regards to posts, i say take what you need and leave the rest.


But they should never have taken the very best?


----------



## Machiavelli

treyvion said:


> Machiavelli,
> 
> He gained the six pack while he was with her?


No, he just thought his wife should be sexually attracted to him because they were married. He had no intention of attempting to change his body.


----------



## JustPuzzled

Machiavelli said:


> But they should never have taken the very best?


Is Virgil Caine in the house tonight???


----------



## alte Dame

JustPuzzled said:


> Is Virgil Caine in the house tonight???


The bells were ringing, JP.


----------



## Machiavelli

JustPuzzled said:


> Is Virgil Caine in the house tonight???


He just got off the Danville train.


----------



## aug

LOL.


----------



## carpenoctem

"You can't raise a Caine back up when he's in defeat."

- well, goes well for OP, I guess.


----------



## Machiavelli

carpenoctem said:


> "You can't raise a Caine back up when he's in defeat."
> 
> - well, goes well for OP, I guess.


Until Stoneman's cavalry comes and tears up the tracks again.


----------



## carpenoctem

Machiavelli said:


> Until Stoneman's cavalry comes and tears up the tracks again.



Yeah.
Until OtherMan's cavalry comes and tears up the tracks again.


----------



## Machiavelli

carpenoctem said:


> Yeah.
> Until OtherMan's cavalry comes and tears up the tracks again.


Tears up the tunnel.


----------



## lordmayhem

JCD said:


> Well, we've managed to badger and insult another guy into running for the hills as we called him weak, a cuckold, an idiot and wimpy.
> 
> Good work guys.


Not really. It looks like the last time he was here was 04-25-2013 12:47 PM, *BEFORE* there were any replies to his last post.


----------



## tom67

As Mach would say-Elvis has left the building.


----------



## JCD

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Badger?
> 
> JCD, interesting choice of words considering your avatar.
> 
> .


Aristotle said self knowledge was the beginning of wisdom, so there is proof I am a wise...something.

But that reminds me of another bit of wisdom:'Telling the Truth with love.'

I happen to agree that he approached the sex question was simultaneously (struggles mightily to be diplomatic)...counterproductive...while simultaneously pressuring the wife (a rare trick)

That being said, I think telling him to take matters in hand while avoiding the ad hominum might have been better.


----------



## krogers58

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


You asked for advice, so here it is: She's done with you, and is trying to "let you down easy" to alleviate some of her guilt. She is also using you, as she probably used the moment you found out about the affair to get the other guy to commit to her in some way, and is using you to make him jealous. She is probably still seeing him, albeit in a much more discrete manner. Either way, here's a few of her actions that need explaining: 1) After discovering her affair on the 2nd of Jan, why did it take til the end of Jan to end it? You think your ultimatum ended it? What kind of person, after being discovered in an affair, stays in it, if they could care less about their marriage. 2) She begged you to stay, most likely because she couldn't imagine her standard of living taking a huge hit, from your walking out. Also, where is she going to find a babysitter as loyal as you? Besides, she's not such a hot catch with 3 kids tagging along. 3) She has caused you to doubt your own basic rights in marriage by getting you to think your actions(heated arguments) were the cause of her infidelity.
4) and this is the kicker: what kind of woman, fresh out of an affair, begging for another chance, would lay that part about feeling absolutely no passion for you? She had to know how that would hurt, especially on top of her affair. 

Part of me thinks she wants your permission to see this guy on a limited basis, and if so, she'll provide you a "reward" for letting her be sexually free. I guess I'd characterize it as a half-open relationship. 

You have to come to terms with the fact that she's not the same woman you married, and is not the person you think you love. Sure you might want to have sex with her, but a large part of that is because it is currently off-limits. I'd begin to face the possibility that you should look for love and committment (and sex) elsewhere. Perhaps it's ok if she stays in the house and can be civil for the children't sake. You should begin to pull yourself together. Go to counseling WITHOUT her. No sense in going with her. That counseling session would turn into everything you don't do for her and this is all your fault. Start going to the gym, regularly. Start eating right, and join some social activities, even if its just at your church or your children's schools. Exclude your wife from your new life, at all times. Plan on separating from her, eventually, and begin to tuck some money aside for the time when you will need to pay lawyers and get your own place, etc. Read some interesting books, and make new friends. Begin a renaissancein your own life, and try and find out why you would want to be in such an abusive relationship. You deserve better, and it won't be hard to find someone who treats you better. I can't think of anyone who would treat you worse. Along the way, your wife might find you attractive again, but don't fall for it. Make up your mind that you offered to have sex with her after this affair, and she turned you down, which was her last chance to have sex with you. Under no circumstances should you get any closer to her, and should begin to build emotional "walls" such that when the break up happens, you won't be so devastated. Who knows, maybe you'll find someone you are interested in, and you'll initiate the divorce. Begin to ask people about a good divorce attorney. Go down to your local courthouse and ask the people around there for recommendations. If 2 or 3 names keep coming up, go and speak with all 3 attorneys (she won't be able to retain any of them, once you speak with them). Sorry to say, your marriage is over, and you should really think about moving on with your life, in ten years you won't believe how much happier you will be.


----------



## LongWalk

Dad&Hubby said:


> Yeah..dump the biyatch!
> 
> SERIOUSLY!!!???!!!
> 
> There are certain behaviors that a WS can exhibit to show you that they TRULY have realized what they did was wrong, and truly do love the BS. Those are the times I can support R.
> 
> THIS?!?! Isn't one of them. Why do you want to be with a woman who feels nothing for you? Divorce her and get a woman who has passion for you. I know it's scary. It's REALLY scary to be alone....*but that isn't a reason to remain married to a woman who wants you to be her gay roommate.*


In retrospect, this comment might have alienated Harrison. It is not respectful. There were also comments calling on him to take her forcefully. It could have been almost rape. Of course the posters did not mean that he should be violent, but it was risky advice that might have backfired.


----------



## andy bluewater

harrison said:


> I discovered my wife's two year affair on January 2nd, and it continued until January 31st when I finally told her I would leave her unless she ended it. She begged me to stay, and did end the affair. She wrote a no contact letter, which I hand delivered to the other man (He was a mutual friend we have known for four years). We have been married 19 years and have three wonderful girls, ages 17, 14, & 12.
> 
> My wife and I have had several discussions since then about what she felt led to the affair, how we both feel about each other & our marriage, and that we both want to save our marriage. We both agree that our marriage has been very rocky for about three years. A lot of it rooted in financial stress. From my end, I used to think: "Once we can get our finances straightened out, things will get better". For her it was a lot more emotional. She felt as though I abandoned her, and even told me she had thought I didn't love her anymore.
> 
> I realize that she has rationalized her behavior to a great extent, but I also realized that she is correct as far as me not showing that I love her. We would sometimes have very heated arguments in which I would say the most hurtful things I could imagine. I am working to change that part of myself, and am getting better at consistently showing love, but it almost seems the damage is done.
> 
> One of the most hurtful things she has told me is that she no longer has any passion for me. None. She has also said that she has never experienced the level of passion with me that she has with the other man, and she said that has made her question whether we should stay married. She wants to be happy and fulfilled.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have always been very satisfied, always felt passion, and now am experiencing hypersexuality. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her space, so I have, but when we spoke a few days ago she admitted that her sexual desire is not improved. She still won't even kiss me.
> 
> I feel as though our roles are reversed, and that I should be the one that doesn't feel desire after what she has put me through. She agrees with this assessment, and has expressed her surprise that I would want to.
> 
> Any advice?


hey brother,i know im answering old post from you,i hope you as individual are okay now,my advice to you kick her out,she's playing with you emotionally,the way she treats you by rejecting having sex with you is the indication that she and her boy friend had it all planned,they are putting a trap on you,they wish you got outt control,they wish you would seek sex outta the marriage ,and the become her and the boy friend some sorta arsenal bombard you on the court that you also having an affair ,and voila she got the excuse to **** the boy friend again ,then she'd tear your life appart by taking big amout alimony from you ,the house and every thing,believe me they are turning you into a total cuckold..Brother please KICK　HER OUT,consider this also ,HER mouth vagina might be already with STDS,SO keep away from her ,she is disgusting


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## Marc878

7 year old zombie thread


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