# hopeless or not



## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

This is my first post, I found this forum and thought I would post my question here.

Here is the scoop-

My wife and I have been together for 10 years, married for 3, and have a wonderful 7 year old daughter who we both dearly love.

My wife knew I was a "player" when we got together, and has always assumed I cheated on her, and finally caught me last year, the first time I actually did.

We struggled for 3 weeks, and then she she she loved me, did not want to ever lose me, and we worked it out. I ahve been faithful ever since, and never ever would betray her again.

However during the past year, afraid she would do the same to me, I ahve smothered her, and finally about a month ago, she said that was it, she had lost all feelings towards me, didnt love me anymore, and left for her friends house for a few days. She came back home, and I immediately left for a business trip. While I was gone I did not call her, but she started calling me instead, becoming more frequent each day.

When I got home she acted so thrilled, but still would not touch me, and all seemed to be on the right course, when she dropped the bomb that she wanted to live as roomates , for financial reasons, and for the kids, and for me to get help with my controlling nature.

We agreed to six months- which is unrealistic financially, and moved forward. the next week things got better, we would laugh, joke, lay in bed and look at the web, and even she listed herself as married to me on myspace and facebook, even posting pictures of me, and talking as if we were going to be together forever...still no touching.

Well last sunday for the first time we all went out to eat as a family, and she was in a great mood, but I wasnt I am extremely depressed over this, and she got angry at me and we ahvent talked really much since then.

She said I annoy her, I cant even talk to her without her getting angry, and we are set to go to dinner thursday night with my boss and his wife, and she is looking forward to it.

However last night she told me it was over for now, though we sleep in the same bed, and and said while we are getting along, she has not had "loving" feelings towards me for a long time.

But yet she still calls me 2-3 times a day, but when she gets home she ignores us and goes to her room and hangs out on the web or watches TV.

She tells me she knows I will not be patient enough, and that always before when things like this happend, she would just give in and be miserable, and is fine and happy just the way things are right now.

I am the only man she has ever been with, or even dated, and I have been seeing counselling for my smothering nature and trying my best to leave her alone, though it plauges me every waking minute...I break down and end up calling her and she gets mad....

We don't even talk like we did a week ago, just a few seconds on the phone here and there, she always finds a reason to get off the hone.

I asked her to come with me to counselling on friday, and she said she might have to pick up another shift or something, and I have not asked again...she did say last night she would go to counselling with me before calling it quits, but also said it would do no good, and she does not want to give me chance....she does not wear her wedding band while I still do.

Financially we cannot split without going bankrupt, we are up to our ears in debt, and she knows what it will do to our daughter and my son, who we fought to get custody over and won last year...she was a major pusher for that.

I do not know whether to back off, and give her time, that she might come around, or if I should give up, move out with a friend, but still support her financially.

I feel like a prisoner in my own home, and miserable every waking minute- I told her this, and she said, well you made me miserable for 10 years.

I think she was beginning to open up last sunday, and then I shut her down by acting morose- if I had only been cheerful then things would be much better- she will call and chat, she did 3 times today, but I think she is just holding on for the kids and security.

I need a womens point of view here...help!

Lost Chris


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## cao428 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi Canders,

Sounds like the damage was done with the infidelity, but you gave it your best effort to make it up to her. Sometimes a spouse will feel that they have lost loving feelings through the hurt and smothering, but they infact still love you. I think you both just need to get into a very good counselor ASAP. Don't be afraid to "shop" for a good one by calling on the phone.

Sorry you are going through such torment. If you can swing it it might be helpful to keep a personal counselor for yourself (sounds like you might already have one) and seek one separate for the two of you. That is what I am doing to help my marriage, to get stronger myself and then one for us as a couple.

Good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

She called me last night and chatted about dinner for about 10 minutes, and then got off the phone- I did not call her again, and she got off work and didnt get home till after midnight- 

She said she is probably going friday to the counsellor with me, which is hopeful.

She also said this-

That she will not just give in like before, and it is over for now, and she doesn't see me having the patience to ...???...never finished that part. Said, and it is true, the last time we went to marriage counselling I just blew it off, and she says it won't do any good anyhow. she is happy with how things are - she says, and while I am miserable, she says I made her so for 10 years....huh?

She acts normal, like we are room mates, and goes about her life like nothing is going on, and when I get depressed, she tells me I am trying to hold onto something that is not there.

Then she schedules us to work together for the back to school picnic for our daughter.

I am lost as to how long to hold on and suffer, and at what point it is all done.

It is like she controlls everything, and is enjoying it, and making me miserable makes her happy.

Chris


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

i remember a dr.phil show about women who have been cheated on. He said that they go through cycles. one of the cycles is revenge. maybe she's testing you. maybe she wants to see what you'll take to see if you really love her and are willing to work it out...i dunno. when she says things like you'll never change and you'll never be patient enough to....maybe she's actually asking you in a round about way. if someone really feels the situation is hopeless they dont talk about it. i really dont think she's completely given up. i think its a combination of revenge and testing you in a way that doesnt make her vulnerable.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

I think you may be right, but the only time she really talks about it is when I bring it up, then she acts annoyed...but then again she just called about dinner, again, and also to talk about, well, nothing.

I guess I ahve to just be upbeat, and woo her again, dunno, but I think until she gets past the anger, nothing will help.

Interesting that she is going with me on friday, wonder what she will say, or not say....

I think she calls at times because she does miss me...will stick in there, and work for it, but at some point she has to give a little too.

But she has to be comfortable first...

Chris

PS- Thanks!


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## Triton (Jul 8, 2008)

Play on Player - the damage is done ! I really don't know of many couples that make it through " Cheating " . The only ones I know are the ones that keep on cheating , and never look back. The " Ice Cooled Ones ". But to come back and try to make it work and be legit- Nope. Trust is gone , etc. .


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

I gave up playing a long time ago- the girl I ended up cheating with was the girl I took to Prom my senior year, we ran into each other, and things just occured.

Since then I have been torn with grief, realizing how bad I hurt the one I really love and never want to be without.

Trust is gone, but I believe one choses to trust, just as one choses to love. It can be rebuilt I believe, but not without a lot of personal suffering on my part, heck she might even cheat on me to get even, but I would accept it, it would hurt, but I love her more than to just cut and run.

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

WEll,

Here is an update-

We are going to dinner tonight with my boss and his wife. She called me this morning to chat about her tanning appointment and how she wants to do fondue, but not spend the money on it???

Talked about rebuilding the stone wall in front of the house and a few other small things, and then that was it.

I called her at lunch to see what she was wearing, so I would not overdress, and she told me and said she had to go.

This is becoming a disturbing pattern- the morning she is fine and chatty, but by mid day she is distant and by night time she is down right annoyed.

And I do nothing, except maybe call her once....it is like she is afraid to lose me, then when she finds out I am still here, then she doesnt want me.

This yoyo effect is really draining me, hopefully she will go as she said to the counsellor with me in the morning, and get something out, whether for good or bad.

I am starting to feel like just ignoring her calls in the morning, but this morning when I did not answer my cell, she called the office for me.

I am going to be my charming cheerful self at dinner tonight, one last time, 

Chris


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

i personally think your wife is annoyed with herself and not with you. right now im at a stage with my husband that im trying not to get personal with him...'trying' being the operative word. when i get a little too familiar and say something, or do something, that i didnt really want to do but it just happened, well i get real annoyed-with him. its a control issue. I think your wife is trying to keep you at a distance and be the one in control, and when she cant, she gets really upset with herself.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

I'm ready to give up...seems she has been chatting it up with some old college friend, and they are going out monday.

Sitting here and wanting someone who does not want me is stupid.

I wish her all the luck in the world, but not in mine.

She will not let go of her hatred, so be it. You cannot change anyone but yourself, and I know have the kids to worry about, so for that I must be strong.

I guess I finally have accepted I destroyed our marriage.

Chris


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## honey28 (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm giving you my "advice" from the perspective of a woman who has been cheated on. My husband was never a "player" but he is very outgoing, a people person, and grew up around a lot of women. In turn, he attracts many women and is somewhat flirtatious. He never had sex with anyone else, but has often crossed the line by exchanging numbers, talking on the phone, etc...Recently I found out that he had an emotional affair w/ someone for several months and it became quite intimate, they talked about their marriages/hopes/dreams/etc... got a hotel room to just "spend time" together and shared a kiss. At that point they "realized" they had gone too far, apologized to each other and remained good friends. Well when I found out I was devastated and hurt beyond words. This relates to your case b/c he too was apologetic, truly changed his ways, started counseling, church, etc... I knew he was sorry and deep down I wanted to forgive him, but it is a hard thing to do. Because even when I forgive him I think about how he betrayed me and that is hard to get over. Because of for all of the negative things about our marriage that he endured, I endured them too but I did not jeopardize that for the comfort of another person and he did. For a while I felt nothing for him, if he touched my hand or something I felt absolutely nothing, like I was touching a rock or some other inanimate object, I had absolutely NO feelings for him. When I allowed myself to feel, it was hurt, anger, confusion, and disgust. Eventually, some of my feelings for him started to return, but I would fight them or cover them up (often with anger or disinterest) because I didn't feel like he deserved my love, my touch, my feelings. I also hid my feelings b/c I didn't want him to think everything was all good b/c I felt that would make him think that I was stupid and that he was free to hurt me again. I was also very angry b/c I had to be the "bigger" person and try to save my family when he was the one that jeopardized it for a third-party. Your wife's feelings are real and warranted; however, she needs to decide if she wants this marriage or not and move forward. If you two are roommates, accept that or not and move on and quit expecting her to act like your wife or even your friend for that matter. If you all are trying to rebuild your marriage that is a different story, she needs to open up to you and may be the two of you need counseling or spiritual advisement. One thing that I've learned is that when you do something, be prepared for the consequences. You may have to accept that you have lost your wife and family as a result of your infidelity. I hope that is not the case for you, but it may be. As for me and my husband we are doing better, but it is a day by day process. Good luck.


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## cao428 (Jun 26, 2008)

Very good advice Honey28,

For me, I feel connected to my husband one moment, and then I feel the hurt again and angry. Then I feel foolish by connecting with him because i don't want him to think he's getting off the hook easy for how deeply he hurt me.

:iagree: I agree with what you said that she needs to decide if she wants the marriage or not. Canders, maybe you need to ask her this question as the yo yo interaction is not productive, but if she says she wants it, just be prepared to wait a long time before her trust is built up again. 

I also agree with ljtseng that she is trying to keep you at a distance and gets annoyed with herself maybe for being too what she feels is "too nice"


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

She said she is done and ready to just move on... still she calls and tries to talk when I am home, I just ignore her and don't answer my cell.

I am done now, I tried, and will not be a yo yo again.

I wish her all the luck in the world, but wish she would give up trying to be friends, it will never happen.

Shame for my kids that we could not work it out, but since she is done with it, nothing I can do except support them and move forward with life....

Really sad, and I have learned a hard lesson. Oh well, she is going out with this guy tonight, and I am going to stay at home till she gets there, and then I am leaving for a few hours till she goes to bed, then when I get back from my business trip I am moving into the spare room (once I get a bed in there)

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, an update-

Things are slightly better- she still says she is done with the marriage, but follows it with a "for now" or "at this point"

I did not move out of the bedroom, and she has not either- I do not push her anymore, and have begun to go out with my friends, not because I want to, but to give her space.

I told her in a mailed letter that we needed to change the pattern, that the way it was was not working, and she had to make the choice, I had made mine, I was committed to the marraige- her choices were-

A- Move out now, she has 3 weeks to get a place and get financing for her car in her name
B- Agree to go to couples counselling once a week, to work through the issues so we could be at least freinds,and maybe more- said that if she gets her feelings sorted out and finds she does want to stay, I would not burn the bridge, as long as she stays in counselling

She agreed to go to counselling, and since saying so has been much nicer to me, and seems actually relieved a bit. Still very stand offish, but more relaxed.

She told her mother- who called me right away, as she is rooting for us- that part of her wants to work it out, but she is still done.

Guess we will see....

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

In counselling now for a few weeks, I do not talk about "us" outside of that unless she does.

We are headed back to where we were, we laugh, joke, pick on each other, have a good time with the kids and just each other again...but nothing romantic yet- she has started joking more aobut sex again, I am just letting it go, not making any moves... I have new respect and love for her, and I think she is doing the same with me...

No talk of leaving, no talk of seperating for the past 2 weeks...I think I ahve a hard long road ahead of me, but I am sticking to it, with no selfish intents, just very supportive of her, and trying to be the man I need to be, for her, me and the family.

Not 100% sure, but I think she is going to work on the marriage more now too, will be interesting to see what she says tonight in counselling.

She said she is tired of her friends pushing her to work it out all the time, says I am the only one not pushing now...and we have fun together again.

I know many areas I failed in and will not repeat... I think she needs to see that and be able to open up again, and it will take a lot of time.... and I am willing to allow that, in fact I want that, I don't want her to jump too soon, I want her to be confortable and really set to resume our life together...

I really love this woman, and I know it is all my fault. Now it is my job to endure what I have to to allow her to come to grips and move forward, no matter how long.

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Here is another update, and I am really looking for female advice mere.

I finally came 100% clean with her, told her I was done playing any games,and admitted everything that had occured. She had known, but I never told her everything till about a week ago.

Since then we have not fought, but she told me she still has no feelings towards me, makinglove would make her vomit, and she has no idea if there is any chance things will work out.

We did spend the last weekend together, taking my son to play paintball, and then to a party with our friends, and spent Sunday with the kids, shopping, she bought a game to play for all of us, and then a puzzle her and I to work on. She asked me out of the blue if she could have another baby, and I said, well, I guess??? She then laughed and said she guessed she had to find someone to get her pregnant....humm??? Then laughed.

She started talking about re doing the bathroom, and even got me a new cell phone on her account, and signed a 2 yr contract for it....

BUT- she told me she does not want to sleep in the same bed anymore, that it is ridiculous that we do so, and so I sleep on the floor in the bedroom, because if I slept on the couch the kids would see me.

She still calls and asks me to bring her lunch at work every once in a while, we are going out with my boss and his wife for dinner on Wednesday.... and she says we should do that every month. 

She still says she doesn't know if she ever loved me, and that all feelings are still gone, going on three months now.

We still go to counselling, but she doesn't think it is doing any good.

I am willing to hold on and fight the good fight, but feel that she is not leaving, but doesn't want to be in a real relationship, just a marriage of convienance now.... the last time I asked her for a chance, she told me I do not have the right to ask for such, and that she always swore she would never stay with a cheater, and I cheated.

I have been going to Christian counselling on my own, and they told me that for things to work, she has to forgive at some point.... she actually told me she probably would, but tht doesn't mean she will accept me back.

Older folks are telling me that they think she is testing me, seeing if I truly love her and will hang in there and prove myself over the long haul, but I am losing faith in us.

What can I do to show her I have learned and will never ever do anything ever again, ever?

Her mom even calls me to tell me to hold on, she says there is still something there, and to hold on, and show her I can change and not ever hurt her again, and that she says she doesn't think my wife is going to move out.... but they are not that close, and I doubt Laura confides in anyone, to be honest.

I want to ask her out to the movies and dinner friday night.... but doubt she will go.

Anyone ever seen something like this before? What do I do?

Thanks

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i can relate to your wife when she says she would never stay with a cheater. if this is truly how she feels, it sounds as if she is totally torn by the fact that she actually still loves you after you cheated. i think there may still be hope but that you have a lot of work to do. i'm not saying that you should not have your own feelings, but she is abviously trying to get over years of resentment & insecurity in your marriage. this may take time. it took time to get to this position & sounds like you had the upper hand & that she is finally needing to take control. i would hang in there, let her go through her emotions, as much of a rollercoaster as they may be. if she truly did not think there was anything left between you, why wouldn't she tell you it was completely over. who knows what will happen but you've got to put all you have into this. it's like nurturing someone back to health (ups & downs, alot).

maybe try courting her like you were dating & reminding her in little ways why she fell in love with you in the first place. give her a lighthearted card or leave her a little note in her car or appointment book. start out small & give her a chance to come back slowly. try, as hard as it might be, to keep things lighthearted while still letting her know you are still there & patiently waiting! good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Had a good, IMO, counselling session yesterday, and the counsellor kinda took her to task.

Started off by asked are you still planning on leaving- and Laura looked at me, and really said nothing, except, well feelings have not changed. Then she was asked what was she doing to see if the feelings would change.... she didnt have an answer.

Talked about the fact that if you want to see if feelings might change, we need to date, do things together, just her and I, before we let go, as the relationship affects 4 people, not just her... she didnt like that much.

She said we do not have anything in common, and when asked what she does, she said once a month she goes to the clubs to dance with her friends, and that is it....the counsellor said we need to go out together, movies, dinner, whatever and see if those feelings are there before we hurt anyone else.

Also said that no, neither of us should leve the bedroom, and it would cause issues with our daughter who is 7 now, and that there is no reason I should sleep on the floor, just put a pillow between us if she doesnt want touched, and let it go from there- Laura was not very happy about that.

Then we talked about being open, and how are friends are telling her one thing and me another, and the counsellor said that is how it is, and Laura could not understand why the giuys are telling me to kick her out, while telling her they support her.... seems typical to me, that is what guys do.

She then said, How do I try again when I said it was over- in other words, how does she swallow the pride and tell her friends she is trying without looking weak... I think that is the big hang up- she is always worried about how her friends see her, and feels that they will laugh at her if she lets go and tries again.

One thing I have noticed recently is that she will not look at me, like she looks off in space, or down when I talk to her- like she is avoiding it... don't know what that means- help!

She said she believes everything I say now, and it is hard to adjust to as she didnt for so many years.

After counselling I walked her to her car, and felt like an 8th grader and asked her out friday- she said she didnt know as she has to work early saturday, I didnt say anything more.

We are going out tonight with my boss and his wife for dinner, and she has tried to not chat much since the counselling, and I have not pushed at all.... letting things sink in.

If she opens the door to a date, I will take things slow, go for a base hit, not a grand slam, and have a good time.

Anything I should watch for now?

Any other thoughts, and Blue thanks for the advice, been doing the couritng thing for some time, not a full fledged attack, but a casual note here and there, and helping with the kids more ao she can sleep in, taking care of all the bills and pretty much making her life easy.

Thanks everyone!


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i can relate to her not looking at you when you are talking. i think it's just so hard sometimes to accept what is going on. it just hurts so bad that it's easier not to look. if she looks, she sees the one person who was supposed to love her & never hurt her talking about this "thing" that has happened. maybe it's better not to see you & have that lasting impression. i am sure she is taking in every single word you speak & replaying it over & over again to try & figure everything out! 

as far as everything else goes, it sounds like you are doing all that you can do to prove yourself as being committed to the marriage. keep it up! it may take time, a lot of time, but it seems as if there is hope!


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## xolilmamato3 (Sep 7, 2008)

Wow reading this I could swear you were my husband. And a lot of responses to this thread have really described what is going on in my head. I swore that the only thing that could take me away from my husband was an affair/cheating. Well after 8 years together, 3 children and many rough times, my husband has done exactly what I feared. He cheated on me when I was 8months pregnant with our son. The pain that he has caused is almost unbearable at times. Yet I still love him. I married him, because I loved him more than anyone in the world. I also married him, because I trusted him and he was so good to me. Now that my world has been turned upside down, I am out of control. Some days I try so hard to make it work and some days the pain takes over and I want to be as mean as possible. I feel like he should hurt like I do and I can be so cruel. I know I am doing it, but I fear him. I don't want to love him anymore, because I am scared he will destroy me in the end. I trusted him so much and now I am so lost. The person I have turned to and leaned on for the past 8 years is the exact same person who has made me miserable. I have only known about the details of my husband's cheating for 3 weeks. I have been a mess ever since. It almost sounds like your wife is testing you. I know I do it to him and I often tell him he won't be able to deal with me. He is remorseful and wants to work it out, but I am so hesitant. We already started counseling and I will be going alone too for some help. I will purposely get undressed when he is in the room to torture him. Sometimes I will joke around and the next minute I want it to be over. It is insane! I know it is, yet I can't control it. I know I am just rambling, but when you are cheated on it is a terrible thing. I am not sure what your wife is feeling, but trust me it is real. Hang in there and please keep updating. You should start journaling. I am very interested when I read. I know I am not alone.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

We had a good time at dinner last night with my boss and his wife, and got home, worked on a jigsaw puzzle ( i hate it but she loves them, and I do it to do things with her) together then went to bed.

Slept in the same bed, no words said, and then I got up early to take care of the kids and everything so she could sleep in a bit.

Said "we'll see" about fridays date....

Guess we will.

More updates as they occur....

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Quick Question-

If she turns down going out friday night together for a date, should I at that point just stand up and say we need to do X or Y? Split or work it out.

I think I know the answer, but looking for you ladies to help me.

Thanks

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

She told me she does not want to go out on friday because she has not spent much time at home with the kids this week- true

Said she knows we have to go out, but some week when she is not been gone working so much.

Not sure how to feel about this..... know how I feel, but not sure if it is right or not.

Cripes!

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

do you think she would go out if you planned to spend the day on saturday as a family? it sounds as if she is just being very guarded. she's afraid of letting you in! if you care as much as you say, just take these baby steps she's giving you & realize that each one brings you closer! just my opinion. i would not give an ultimatum! i don't think that's fair to her when she went with you & your boss. just remember how much you have hurt her. it will take time! she's giving you enough signs that she still loves you & she's still there, right? good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

When she got home last night, I could tell she was waiting to see how I reacted to not going out tonight....I didn't react and in fact had made one of her favorite meals for supper.

We then went to get ice cream together after dinner, worked on my daughters school stuff together, grounded my son for bad grades together (weee) and then worked on the jig saw puzzle and off to bed.

She is still joking around about sex and that she left her cell phone at home yesterday and was sad she couldn't reach her boyfriends....joking of course.

Going Saturday evening to a hog roast together that one of her co workers is hosting, and she said she might, might go the the all italian car rally with me on sunday.

Meeting her today for lunch at my daughters school for the parent luncheon and making her dinner again tonight.

One big item of change- I ahve assumed the control of the household finances, something she always did before, and she hasn't said a word. She used to get so stressed over bills and so forth, so I figured I would take that off of her. I think she was waiting for me to do so one day anyhow.

Also- a good friend of mine who is a senior counsellor in New England told me that usually things like this take 4-6 months before the other spouse is willing to work on things- after that time the odds of it working out is greatly reduced, but since I am only in month 3, I am feeling pretty good.

He also believes, as he knows her a little, that she is busy fighting herself, and the fact that she is worn down and tired all the time is a big indicator of that.

That the stress of holding out is getting to her. This means do not push at all, or she will flee.

Just an update, and holding the high ground here...

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

bravo! you are doing a great job in being patient! isn't it sad that it takes something so horrible to whip us into shape? just keep reassuring her of your committment to her & the family & that you would never again do anything to jeopardize that. she is probably still wrestling with so many unsettling feelings from one thought to the next! when you are feeling down, remember that she feels much worse. i'm not trying to sound mean, but this is her time. unfortunately, you put her i this position & therefore don't get to complain. hang in there! hope the car show works out!


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## Orangerose (Aug 27, 2008)

Keep trying. It takes time for the one hurt to start to get over the pain. My husband is very attentive to me now. He teases me like he used to. I think that was something that made me feel like he is mine again. We have unlimited text messages. We are constantly keeping in touch with each other. That lets me know he is thinking of me all of the time and not her. We have a policy that is, when are just wanting to connect, even if it is a silly thought. We text each other. Hopefully she will come your way. You two got together because of love. Hopefully you both can get it back. She needs to work on herself also. No one if perfect. All of this made me look at myself also.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Progress, maybe-

Been spending almost all our time together, but not alone, always with others or the kids.

Interesting comment she made, and we had a long talk about it-

It boils down to this- she is convinced once someone cheats, they always will, and that it will be a matter of when, not if, I cheat on her again.

She is convinced I did not love her enough to keep me from doing it the first time, so what would keep me from doing it again...

That is the whole key to this... how do I do this?

Help!

Chris


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## Ladyinblue (Sep 18, 2008)

Wow-talk about Dajavu!!!! My oldest brother has a major in Psychology and a minor in cognitive science.He has really helped me gain insight into my own thinking.This is exactly how i felt deep down inside before my husband has his Emotional Affair.This thinking drove me to pull away and not give myself entirely, because it would just hurt too much to suffer another heartbreak.It created a huge rift between us, and after a while we just began drifting farther and farther apart.After i found out about my husband's emotional affair-these feelings resurfaced and i began thinking:
"My husband had an emotional affair because he never really "loved me" enough...to begin with.Its like a matter of time before he does it anyway, so why get my hopes up and set myself up for failure again?" 

This is not the first time i have had this happen to me, and i honestly thought that he would never cheat on me because he was "different", not like all the others-so it makes this all a lot harder. Since some people are very adept at wearing disguises, my past relationships taught me never to "trust" entirely and so i never did.Unknowingly, I've been robbing myself of genuine love because i wasn't being genuine myself.What I realized is that this thinking has to do with "me" and my own insecurities and nothing to do with what he did.

I'll try to explain where I'm coming from. When i start thinking“...that’s why he cheated”. I'm like taking the blame for something I have absolutely NO control over - his choices. I AM responsible for my part in the relationship struggles, and the unhealthy choices i made that affected him. However, my self-blame comes from my unconscious need to feel in control of the relationship, and in control of him. It was HIS choice, and still is. Allowing others to make their own choices - even bad ones - is very much part of loving them. You can’t truly respect such choices if you feel "you" could have “done something” to cause them to make other choices.

I was initially struggling with the question of moving on or staying to work things out.But trying to make such a huge decision is a natural way of trying to cope with the anguish. I have found that my coping and healing process has really improved the more I can let go of making such a long-term decision. For now i have chosen to focus on today, this moment, this hour. When my gut feeling says “get away”, i do that for an hour, an afternoon, or whatever time feels right for the moment. 

I want to stay committed to this marriage because I know our relationship has a lot of important things to teach me - many through painful lessons. That is my commitment - to myself. 
My inner voice tells me it will be a real trial for me, in finding out just how much difference “detachment with love” really makes in keeping my emotional well-being intact, as well as allowing him the chance to learn some very painful lessons. 


I told him that I don't want him to "pretend" to be committed to me if he really doesn't want to be. I want him to discover what it is he really needs on his own, and my not holding an “ax” over his head doesn’t distract him from that important inner truth. Its such a breath of freedom to no longer need to worry - not because I “trust him”, but because I’ve discovered that genuine love means respecting his right to make his own choices - ANY choices, even ones I may not like.His affair has done a lot more than just caused my CURRENT pain. It’s also ripped open a bunch of trapdoors to past childhood pain, which got buried deep down. He isn’t the cause of that part of my pain; it existed before him,and after the affair.Him opening those trapdoors has been a gift to me, even though it might be wrapped up in barbed wire. The more I can focus on dealing with and healing THAT part of the pain I feel, the easier it will become to deal with the actual anguish the affair has “caused”. Although Infidelity IS devastating and it has shaken me to the very core-it has also been a blessing in disguise. Forgiving and moving on takes a lot of courage because in the end,you have to take that leap of "faith"....There’s a lot more at stake when we try to be our “real selves” in a “committed” relationship, we have a lot more of our true selves invested and at risk. We also run the real risk - as our imperfections and our own needs become more apparent - of our partner preferring someone who fits what THEY want, instead of our grab bag of strengths and faults. Nothing happens by chance in our lives. Everything that happens we can either use to make our life and our partner’s better, or we can run away from the diamond wrapped in barbed wire.I could totally relate with your wife and this thinking. If she ever needs someone to talk to about these feelings, she could contact me anytime.


LadyinBlue


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Wow, LadyinBlue, that is one of the most powerful posts I've read. It really hit home for me on many levels, especially the last paragraph. Thank you for that post.

Chris,

From your end of things, I think the only thing you can do is to convince her otherwise by your actions. Do you have a clear understanding at this point, why you cheated in the first place? 'I don't know' or 'It just happened' probably won't cut it. She needs reassurance that you get why it happened and you have put boundaries in place to prevent it from ever happening again. She needs to know that she is enough for you & you won't be looking over your shoulder for something better. 

She needs to feel, by your words and actions, that you really love her for the person she is. She may feel you are scrambling to keep the family together because it's the easiest path to take, not because you can't imagine your life without her.

It might help to write her some love letters, opening up about why you need her in your life, if you haven't already. Getting back to the old routine is probably what you are hoping for, but she probably needs your relationship to get to the next level...woo her all over again.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

She has not asked why, so I have not offered, but I know it was because I was scared that I could love someone as much as I loveher, and that numerous people have cheated on me in the past..... like I was waiting on her to do it.

But since then I have erased those doubts and now have no urge to do so at all for any reason whatsoever. Since then I have set my mind to work and be at home, hang out with the boys every once in a while, but have centered my life on her.

Been trying to woo her, she got upset at me for doing so, looking for more substance than flowers/ cards so forth.

Have to prove with my actions, while still leaving love letters and show her I value and honor her above all else.

Every day.

Have written some love letters, a few weeks back, going to again.

Thanks

Chris


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Chris,

I would think if I were in your wife's shoes, flowers would do less for me than if you were to tell me (verbally and in writing) why you love me...what is it about me...reassurance that there's something you find in her that puts you over the top in love that you know you can't and wouldn't even want to find elsewhere. Then the question would pop in my mind, then why did he cheat? So I think I would need some solid answers and reassurance.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Will write her one, I have not done so for some time....last night was good, watched a movie together, finished the puzzle and ate dinner.

She was actually touching me last night without pulling away, not in a loving way, just casual touching....but when we went to bed she pulled away, and she has not been sleeping well at night at all, tossing and turning. She said tonight she might sleep on the couch to see if she can sleep better.

I think the 1000 lb gorrilla is driving her nuts, and once we get past that her life will be easier, the stress less.

Perhaps I should tell her that....

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Back into the cycle we go, she is now mad and agry again, though I ahve done nothing, I think we will stay there for a day or two, then pull out of it.

Wrote her a long email about it today, as she will not discuss things except for in sounds bites...

Tell me what you think-

Laura,

Never know what to title emails like this, nor how to start them, so please get by the clumsy opening and read through this, it will help you.

And that is what I want to do, help you. No matter your choices, I want to help. Take your time, read this through a few times, we can chat about it when you are ready.

I realize you are not sleeping, and I see it in your face, you are physically and mentally drained. I have been reading books, probably a dozen by now, spending time researching the web, and chatting on forums about our situation, and can assure you that there is a definate pattern in all of it. And we are dead stuck in it. There is nothing that we are doing, have done or will do that is not been done before. 

The reason I suggested the After the Affair book, it that is was recommended by Tom, who read it after he and April split, and it helped him regain strength and see things in an objective light, not the whirlwind of emotions he faced before. And that is where you are, a roller coaster of emaotions, one day everything is ok and we are getting along, the next you hate me all over again. It is truly day by day.

I know how tired you are, I know what is keeping you from sleeping, and I am going to try to talk about it the best I can in this email, to break the cycle that is hurting you.

Whenever a partner is hurt by another in terms of an affair, there are stages they go through, and this is not me saying this, but rather many doctors and counsellors. What helps them through the stages is that the other partner realizes where they are at, and does all they can to help the process along. And there never is a home run, it is gains in mere inches that one sees.

When I strayed last year ( more details below) and we struggled , you went into a state of denial, that maybe it didn't really occur and we could just move on. That is typical. What happend is that the denial stage ended and the anger stage began, and that is where we are at right now.

Anger empowers you, it makes you feel you can control everything and make proper decisions and actions. It is a greater feeling than the denial stage, which has tons of doubt, but you struggle on. Anger gives you the control you were seeking in the denial phase. At times anger will subside, but then it will come roaring back.

However, nothing comes without cost. Anger and hate will slowly eat at you, you will find little or no pleasure in the things you used to like to do, you will find yourself waking up at 3am for no reason. You feel drained as the anger is a fire that is eating you from the inside you. You may deny that it does, and for a few days feel better, but then it returns. You fight yourself constantly and feel hopeless at times.

I understand your anger and hatred, that you cannot stand to be near me at times, as it sparks the anger again, and we can get along for a few days, but before long the anger returns and it is one vicious cycle that will enventually gut you.

Getting out of the anger phase is the hardest part, moving past the empower feeling and onto the next phase is the toughest leap of faith.

And it can only come when the hurtful parnter (me) gives you complete details of the why and what of the affair, and details on how it will be avoided in the future. Whether or not you decide to work things out in the end does not matter, it is the complete confession and solutions offered that help you get to the next stage.

Here is what I must give to you.

First of all, the why.

The reason I had what most PHD's call an emotional relationship is -

I have always had a need to feel needed and loved. I have sought out those in trouble, and came riding to the rescue. Last year I felt you no longer needed me any more. How stupid was I? I felt I had taken you as far as I could and that you no longer needed my support, and I felt lost. I started spending time on myspace, trying to feel needed, and I came across Amy and she needed big time help. I went into it, just feeling good I was helping someone and it felt good that someone " needed" me. I really wanted nothing more than that. But I made a fatal mistake in that I got sucked into the situation and found myself wanting to see her once, as I was curious what she looked like anymore. So that I did. Nothing happend except a brief chat, walked in downtown DC and went to dinner. Came home, feeling guilty and racked with the fact I had done something wrong. Should have just told you then, before any more contact. Ended up seeing her a few times more, each time it was harder not to move past friendship, and we engaged in what is called an emotional affair. And that is when two people engage in a relationship outside the bonds of marriage that does not involve sex. That is where I drew the line. I knew that was cheating, and would not do so. Thought about it, considered it, even took a condom with me once, but threw it out on the way down to see her. Bought the airline tickets, was planning on a big weekend get away, but then you "caught" me, and I was so damn glad you did at the time. Told Amy she could not go with me, and went by myself. Relationship ended at that point.

The reason I told you you were right about the affair a few weeks back, is that you were right, there was an affair. But not what you think.

The next step I have taken is some deep soul searching as to why it happend, and what I can do to be sure it never does again.

And here it is-

It has taken many books, many talks with my pastor, cousellors and couples who have been through the same thing to see I was at fault for not seeing how much you needed me. That I was the one responsible for protecting my wife's heart, and feeling secure and happy in the love we shared. I know now I am needed more than anyone on this planet to support you, and protect your heart and emotions, and that the doubt I flelt before was selfish and self centered. That you are a strong independant woman, but yet you need your husband to be supporting and protecting regardless of that. I now know this, and am secure in it. My own low self esteem has been addressed and for the past year and almost 4 months I have been secure in that. And I will continue to be. I do not feel the need to rescue anyone but you, and that is where I need to be as a husband. I will not ever do this again, as I know where I need to be, and what I need to be doing while there.

I betrayed your heart, but never the sanctity of our physical love. And needed to tell you that.

Hopefully this will help you move past the anger phase, but reassuring you that I know the why, and how to never do it again. 

Once you accept that this is true, we will move on to the next phase. This will not be easy, many times it may take up what I see as ages for that to occur, and in the meantime my life will be hell on earth. But I will endure it as I love you more than anyone ever, you are truly the woman I want to spend my life with, and I have decided that no matter what I have to face, what dangers and hurt lie ahead, I am bound to you, and will stand my ground. 

I will always love you, and cherish you and your heart above all others, and know what needs to be done. I was stupid in not seeing it before.

That is why I write this to you today, I wish we would instead have a real conversation, but understand right now you are not willing to. It hurts. That is fine, I am not pushing, it is your time table that we must go by, and you are right, only time can help us, but after the acceptance that time allows, there is much work ahead.

I love you, I will put my shoulder to the hard work ahead, and will endure all I have to - to spend my life with the woman I love. You are worth it.

Love always and forever,

Your Husband, Chris


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Chris,

I think it's perfect. It's obvious you 'get it' as far as what this has done to her and how she's feeling & also that you are serious about understanding why it happened and what you want your role to be as her husband going forward...I really think it's great. I pray it is well received.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, another update-

She called me to bring her dinner at work, so I went and dropped off sushi for her instead of leavingearly to go hunting- went hunting later ( scored) and then when she got home last night I asked if she got the email- she said yeah, but we are not going to have a discussion of it, I let it go, went about my business and then she got real chatty about this and that, and we went to sleep- she slept soundly for the first time in weeks she said.

She works real late tonight, and then is off- we are going out of town to a civil war reenactment this weekend- she is working the registration table while I lead one of the sides- really wont see each other all weekend, but we are going up together, and she just texted that we doing a hog roast ( I have a smoker and am the local expert) for her work Christmas party in December.

Very chatty again this morning..... guess we will see.

Thanks,

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

One last question- 4 months now without any intimacy at all- no touching, no kissing and now, well you know.

This is starting to drive me nuts...any advice on how to keep cool about it?

Thanks-


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Touched base with her on the sex deal, she has no urge and said she only did it for the past year to make me happy.

Said she has no urge and probably won't for quite a while- said up to six months.

Good Lord! How do I manage that one?

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

wow! i would absolutely love to get that letter from my husband. you really have been doing your research! you do have a deep understanding about what you've done. i think it's the best thing you've done so far! she may still be distant but do you realize now that you can move forward whole-heartedly knowing that you have fully disclosed everything to her. no more secrets or just not telling because she didn't ask. great job! i think every man or woman who has put their spouse in this position should read your letter! i think you mad a leap (not just a step) in the right direction!

as far as the inimacy goes, i'm not sure what to tell you to do in the meantime, but try as hard as you can to hang in there because it sounds like she's slowly starting to come around. you may be surprised, she probably doesn't have a clue when she'll be ready. it may just happen at one of those unexpected moments. you should be very proud of the work you are doing! good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

*More info*

Well,

Here is an update, and thanks for all the encouragement.

We rode 3 hours up together, she never wants to talk about "it" but rather seems focussed on having a good time instead, and perhaps letting it go.

I asked her what she thought of the letter, she said it seemed too " Dr Phil" but said she believed it, though she still thinks I said bad things about her to get Amy to fall for me.... and I didn't, I told her that, and don't think she beleives me... oh well, can't control that. Asked to her take the next weeks, and start going out on dates, and she agreed, though saying it will not work. Agreed to change counsellors as this one does not seem to do anything. 

Anyhow, we got to the event, a lot of shared friends were there, and she made sure to get a dig in here and there, to the point that folks who do not know anything is going on were coming up to me and going " dude, wth?"

Well the event got rained out by mid day saturday, and she called when she found out the event was called, and I got a shower at at a mutual friends house we stayed at and we spent the rest of the day shopping at the mall, went to dinner and watched a movie that night. No mention of sleeping seperate while we where there, though she said she could not sleep as the bed was too small and she did not have enough "space"


Got up and went to breakfast and went shopping some more, she fell asleep on the ride home, and then we watched tv last night and somehow got into a tickling and wrestling contest.


I think she is trying to move forward, without addressing the issues, if she is moving forward...she still hits me with jabs here and there, but we are planning to go stay in Gettysburg on the 10th for some travel show ghost thingy, and then she asked me not to go to another Civil War event, but to stay at home and have a fall party that weekend instead.... of course I said ok.

Going out tuesday night, I have to come up with ideas..eeek.
..help!


who knows... I sure dont, but I caught her a lot yesterday just looking at me, I mean a lot.


I think I said something that struck her, and when she said that she fears the worst thing that could happen is one of two things- one- she stays and is miserable or two if we split and I turn our daughter against her, and I told her I never would, ever, but that our duaghter would probably be pretty upset with her as it would come out in the wash that she didnt try to make an effort to fix things and was the one that wanted it over. 

Didn't really say it the most eloquent, as it was about 2 am sunday, and she had woke me up as she was tossing and turning again....but I know I would never do that, period, but Elizabeth is a really smart kid, and is very stubborn and idealistic. 

Oh well, had a good chat this morning, and she says time and again I treat her like she is 5, when I do things for her, and call her all the time, so I won't. I tried to explain manspeak- that one has to be blunt like a 2x4 to get a point accross to us.... so she was, and I will stop doing things she does not ask me to.

I think she is trying to get past it, without talking it out, but just see if there is a new us that can be.... she is always making plans down the road.....and I think this past weekend was the best ever.

I have a long hard fight ahead, but I think the tide is turning.

Chris

PS_ date ideas please...lol...


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

any favorite restaurant or food? anywhere to go that has special meaning to just the two of you? any song that means a lot to her that you could conveniently play in the car on the way? i know she might say you are corny, but that's ok. you could both use a good laugh! i think as long as you take control & have a plan, it won't matter too much what you do. just try to have fun! good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Changing counsellors- she said the last one isnt helping, so we have a new one now.....who knows...

We are finally starting to communicate I think- she told me she always hated when I treated her like a kid....I didnt think I ever did. she said I did when I would always do stuff for her, like I was taking care of her.... she doesn't need a daddy.

So I will stop doing that.

she did order a new pool cover for the pool today, we talked about my son and his poor grades, and what we need to do about it, and about her just feeling really worn out and tired.

Not giving up here!

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

*Hit the Wall*

Ok,

I have hit the wall. Big mistake last night- she always keeps her laptop off and password protected, but she accidently left it on when she left for work.

Curiousity got the best of me, and I looked up her history for web surfing and found she spent the day watching porn movies of lesbians. Not kidding at all.

It has sickened me and I could not hardly even look at her when she got home last night, and she tried to chat, but I wanted nothing to do with her.

Woke up at 3am, told her I cannot do this anymore, and went back to sleep.

Supposed to go out to dinner tonight on a "date", I asked her if she was still going, and she said "if that is what you want"

I am pretty used up, feeling like I cannot do this anymore, feel she will never come around, and tired of wasting my time with someone who will never be what I need them to be.

Considering telling her that after these three weeks dating, she MUST make a choice, and if she choses to stay what I expect, and if she choses to leave, what she should expect.

Thoughts?

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

don't you think you have sickened your wife before with what you did? she stuck by you. if you are curious, ask her about it. i believe whole-heartedly that every marriage should be an open book! that goes both ways! do you ever watch porn? you two haven't been intimate for a while & maybe this is her way of destressing. don't make more of it than you should! you have been coming so far lately. hang in there & see where tonight takes you. i don't think it's quite fair to give up on her after all you put her through with the cheating. i know it sucks & seems like a lot of suffering, but betrayal destroys sooooo much! go back & read the letter you wrote her. calm yourself down & take a breather. just remember how badly you want this to work. it may be hard but just think how hard it would be someday if you choose not to work it out & you realize you lost her forever. hope this helps! stay strong & think positive!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

*Holy Cow*

She just called and asked me to go to the movies tonight.

Night in Rowanthe or whatever...perhaps a breakthrough is happening...she did have me bring her sushi for lunch and sat at lunch and chatted.

Going to keep it light and hopefully this is the start of something ....

Trying not to get my hopes up too much...

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

keep it up with the patience. i suppose we go through things in life & end up learning some big lessons. in this case, you both are going through changes & learning as you go! have fun tonight & good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Ok,

Some updates-

Went to the movie, went shopping and then to dinner...we had a good time, but no touching, holding hands or anything. Went home and pretty much just went to sleep.

Went to a new counsellor yesterday morning, great session- he was pretty darn good- and some interesting things came out.

He asked her what goals she had in coming-

She said to see if there is hope- she didnt say her feelings were gone, she didnt say to smooth a seperation, but to see if there is hope.

He then asked the 0-10 scale questions- where is the relationship right now, what is the worst it has been, and what is the best it has been.

She said, to my amazement, that it is now a 3- up from a zero at the end of June. However the best it has ever been was a 6.

He said 3 points is a big change, and I agree.

He know said we have to decide what each of us could do in the next week to raise it to a 3.5...not what the other could do, but what we could do.

Explained the marriage bell curve to us, and seemed to really get her thinking.

We went to McD for lunch then, yuck!, and then off to work.

She called me a few times, asking me to remind her of this and that, and when she got home we chatted, looked on ebay ofr stuff, and sacked out and chatted some more.

This morning though, she got up cranky, and when I asked her what plans we had for the weekend, she said she had to work (yes she does 3-11pm on Saturday and on call 7am to 11pm Sunday), and she is staying at her friends (if I didnt need anything) Sat night as they are having a bonfire get together. So she really doesnt have time to do anything. I offered to come to hagerstown to just hang out while she was on call sunday, she said well, we will decide that on sunday.

To me, to be honest with you all, she always calls when she needs me to do something, and the reason the relationship has gone up 3 points is all the effort I have done. She seems to put no value in depositing "love tokens" in my account, or to do anything to make it better- she says she doenst have time as a full time worker, mother and so forth to have me hogging her time....like I am taken for granted.

Tonight she gets off at 6pm, originally we were supposed to go out, but I scaled it back to a moive at home or a walk as she said she wanted to spend time with the kids. Now she is making plans to get a pedicure after work. Seems she had time to do that, but not something with me.

I feel she puts no value in me. Or our time together.

Maybe she is trying, but I do not see or feel it, and don't know how much more I can give and keep my self respect, without her pitching in as well.

Thoughts?

Chris


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

canders said:


> Progress, maybe-
> 
> Been spending almost all our time together, but not alone, always with others or the kids.
> 
> ...


Chris, the trust is broken. She feels less of a woman, because you couldn't say no to the other woman. Women want to feel that their man loves, honors, and respects them, and even more so, in front of other women. Women want to feel like they are every woman in the world to their man, and they will love only her. I mean.. look at all the half dress women running around these days, and most had work done to them to look hot. Women have to see other women like this, do you understand what I am saying here? :scratchhead: They just want to feel as attractive to you as other women are. She thinks this woman has it all over her, because you choose to be with her.
This is why she said about leaving her cell phone home, and she missed all her bf's calls. See, she is making herself feel better and as attractive as they are, because of how she feels now that this happend to her. You need to start changing your ways and start letting her know how beautiful she is to you, before someone does.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

You don't have to be struck by lighting like Mel Gibson to know What Women Want.


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## Sabine (Sep 25, 2008)

:rofl:


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

canders said:


> Ok,
> 
> Now she is making plans to get a pedicure after work. Seems she had time to do that, but not something with me.
> 
> ...


i'm sure she is trying to fight her feeling of wanting to give in to you. if she fills her time with "things", then she is busy & doesn't have to think anymore. it may also be a form of punishment. she feels you didn't love her enough to talk to her about how you were feeling when you instead decided to stray. therefore, why should she open herself up to you now that you've tried someone else out? it's hard in this case for your wife. she probably feels like she is going against those thoughts in her mind of "why would i ever stay with someone who cheated?".

i think she is definitely trying! she's going to conseling & on dates, she rated things as a 3 not a 0. remember, if she is truly the love of your life, wouldn't you do just about anything to get her back? i guess that's a question you have to answer for yourself. are you strong enough to make it through? it's kind of like her time to test you, as hard as that may be. she knows that once she let's go, she loses her opportunity to really make sure you are in it forever this time. this is your 2nd chance. it may not be the 2nd chance you imagined, but you don't really get to decide how someonelse feels when you betray them. keep your feelings in check. keep posting. keep working. good luck.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Ok,

Ummm..lost here as always, did take advice and give a card, wrote a good bit in it, telling her how much I appreciate all she does, how beautiful she is, and how much I enjoy every moment we get to spend together.

Since she does not have to work till 3pm on Friday, I asked her if she wanted to go out after the kids settle down, and hit a college bar or two...said "we'll see"

Trying to keep my head up, but at what point do my needs matter, or will they ever? Like if she callsme, I answer no matter what, when I call her, she answers maybe once every 2-3 times...that really gets my goat.

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

just remember, you crushed her world. what she is doing right now might not seem fair but it's what is. she probably feels like half the things you are doing, you are only doing because of what you did. i know it's been some time, but like i said, only you know your limits, only you can decide when you can't give anymore. trust me, i'm sure she's taking in every little card, note, e-mail, etc. that you give to her. hopefully, one of these days, she will be ready to give up the fight & give in to your love. maybe that day will never come but no one knows what the future holds. i'm sure if we did, we would all make different choices! if you give up now, all of your hard work will be in vain! she will forever think you never loved her enough! good luck!


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

When she is out, make your home romantic looking. Give her roses and a note saying ..no one is perect, my love, but PLEASE find it in your heart to forgive me and let's start all over again.

Or could have another ring and ask her to start over again with you.
Ask her to marry you again.

Ok, so I'm too romantic for my own good.


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## Sabine (Sep 25, 2008)

I doubt so very much.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Thanks for all the info- doing what I can to stay the course.....ready to stick with it for another day!

Last night was tough, on the way home via cell she said she just wanted to get a pedicure and come home, so I said ok, be nice to see a movie, and she said she didnt want to watch one....told her I bought the book the counsellor suggested and was reading it, she said she didn't need to or want to read it- too many people have already given her advice and she has had enough of that. Said ok.

She called about an hour later said she was at Blockbuster and would be home in a bit.


Got some movies, came home and relaxed, surfed ebay, and laid down on the couch. We did the parenting stuff together, have been for about 3 weeks plus now, and then turned on the TV- the debate was on, she went to sleep in a bit.

About an hour later I was bored and turned off the TV, and woke her to go to bed, she got instant angry, yelled at me for waking her up. I explained I saw she was shivering in her sleep and should go to bed.... she exploded , told me I need to stop acting like a daddy, and let her alone. So I did, she then came to bed.

This morning she is all nice again, well not real nice, but nicer than late last night.

She has some real anger deep inside she needs to get out, and the sooner the better, as it keeps resurfacing at really odd moments and it takes me by total surprise. I never act mad in return now, don't really react, but that is real hard.

She is holding on tight to anger and it will hurt her, but only she can decide when it is time to let go of it.

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

BTW- thinking of sending this to her-

Should I?

Laura,



One thing you said that has bothered me a great deal, is that you thought that I was saying bad things about you and our marriage last year.



I want to tell you what I said, and rest assured that I never said I was unhappy. Yes, I did say that perhaps our love life was a bit too relaxed, that we did not spend time together, just you and I, like we should. That at times I did not feel really appreciated and felt taken for granted. I realize I needed to say those things, but should have said them to you.



To be honest, I was afraid to say these things to you, as I thought you would just get mad at me, and it would cause issues that might rock the boat that I cherish so much.



Never said anything negative about you personally, and to be honest, I still have nothing negative I could say about you.



Sure there are things i would like to see change, always will be I am sure. It is huamn nature. But to be honest I love you for you, accept you for who you are and what you will be, and want no one else but you, ever.



I have learned to talk to you about things, and to understand just because I feel something, doesn't mean you will. I am not you, you are not me, but open frank conversation is to be the cornerstone of our rebuilding, and I just wanted to tell you I will never ever hide anything from you ever again.



Hope you have a great day!



Love,



Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i think it sounds good. it's communication, right? it's better than not telling her & bottling it up inside.

she does have a lot of anger & resentment built up & i'm sure she is totally out of her element. that's where the outbursts come from. it's really frustrating when you are given a situation to deal with that hurts like this does. how to get her to get past it - keep doing what you are doing. there are 2 parts of your letter that caught my attention most coming from your wife's perspective (1) i want no one else but you ever & (2) i will never hide anything from you ever again. VERY IMPORTANT to keep telling her. even in the future! good luck!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Here we go another roller coaster ride, and some real issues now coming up with the kids.

She was nice friday till she got home, was rude and wouldn't even talk to me, have no idea why.

Got called into work late that night, worked till 3:30 am....came home and went back to bed.

Woke up when we left and asked if I was taking Elizabeth to the movies and she would meet us there..... called on the way there to tell her I left a belt at home, and could she bring it with her, and she got all rude again and I told her that is enough, to make up her mid and to act on it...she said I needed to decide, she was tired of being told she needed to- I told her fine, then we are going to work this out- she said fine and said she had to finish getting ready to go.

Went to the movies with E, she was very distant, then we went shopping for E a new winter coat, and she started getting really rude again, and when I would stop to look at something she would just keep walking and leave me to find her and where she went....this happend 3 times and I sucked it up, the fourth time she did so, I did not bother to look for her, but just walked out to my car...she called me on the cell asking where I went,and I told her I was leaving, and she said wait I have to go to work (she did) and I need to get E to you... I waited for her to get to the jeep, put E in, and then told her I was tired of being treated like a dog, and she needs to stop...she just started yelling about how I need to stop making her mad when she has to go to work, and stormed off..... ont he ride home my 7 year old daughter cried about how bad and mean mommy is, and how no one keeps thier promises anymore to keep a family together...I comforted her, told her all was fine, and that there is nothing to worry about....

When I got home I found a large package, she was waitingon some Ebay stuff, so I called her and told her, and she was polite. Later I went to drop it off at her work, and she had left early to go to her friends to hang out as she planned that night, as she was on call and her friend lives closer to the hospital....I called her cell, and told her where I was at and she told me to come over and drop it off....I did, hung out for a bit, she was polite but not talkative.

Left and went home....I was told she stayed up and partied till 3am, after saying how tired she was, then was called back into the hospital to work at 5:30am- drug herself in, and worked till 4pm yesterday...meanwhile I spent the day with the kids, cleaning the house and pool, and she got home, I took the kids out so she could sleep.

About 9pm the hospital called again, and so I had to wake her up...I offered to drive her in and wait, it was only one case, and drive her home, plus then we could spend time together...she said no. Aksed her what night we were going to go on a date this week, and she said it didnt matter, for me to chose and she would be there. She doesnt care, whatever....said fine just make the plans she would be there but it doesn't do any good. I asked her point blank when she is going to start trying to make things better, and she said she didn't know.

She left, my son, who is 16 and her stepson, came to me and said he does not want to live at our house anymore till we work things out...he has been hiding in his room for 3 weeks now, and has had a tough life with his mom bouncing in and out of relationships, told me I had given her enough time and that the house is too much for him right now...

My daughter is still upset, I have been doing all I can to calm things down.

The seams are coming apart and I am holding on, but I think she is just avoiding everything, and now it is starting to really show...

I am at my wits end and wonder if I should tell her about the kids and what is going on...been trying to shield her to give her space and time, but I can no longer do this alone.

Thoughts please!

Chris


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders-

Wow,

I just read your whole thread. You have the patience of a saint. I could never be as patient as you, my sex drive would have caused me to explode after the first month. But then I would have complained about her un-sexy attitude long before it got to the affair stage.

You ask about telling her about the kids. How come she has not figured that out already? 

I personally believe that every deal should have a time limit. She obviously has issues that go way, way beyond your affair, and as *ladyinblue *said, your affair probably triggered them.

I know you are full of remorse, but I have to ask you, is she that much of a good catch? You mention almost as an aside that you did not enjoy much of a love-life with her, and she had the cheek to say she only did it to please you.

From what you say, she is unlikely to move out. She sounds like she is in the middle of a full blown crisis. What I mean is, she is about to "blow" up, and possibly have a breakdown of some sort.

On a lighter note, I used to be a masseur... When she calms down, offer to massage her neck and shoulders. If she accepts this, you can move onto her upper, and eventually lower back. It is clear from your description that she is as sexually frustrated as you are, but her mind may not consciously know that yet. By massaging her, you could tip the balance. Let me know if you want more info on this.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

True, I think the meltdown will come soon, has to, or she is stronger than steel.

She called me about 30 minutes after I wrote the last post to remind me tonight we are to sit down and do bills together and also some stuff about the kids.

I told her that I might be able to, kinda busy, and we are to go out tuesday night on a date, but she acts like she doesn't care either way. Makes me really want to go, I tell you! At the same time telling me when she can go to the counsellors next week.... like she wants to go! I told her fine, but if we are working on things then she needs to get working on it, and she said her life is too busy to give 100% to anyone, she doesn't have the time. Also told me I need to stop pushing to spend time with her, I never did it before, and there just isn't time to do so with her work. She said if I want it to work, then I need to stop pushing to do things together and stop trying to spend time with her.... huh?

Burns me up she stayed at a friends house to party till 3am, instead of coming home to her family, she said it was to be closer in case she was called in, then she parties till the wee hours, and gets called in at 5:30am....she is acting so selfish and immature (she is 25) she cannot see what she is doing to the kids and me, and I feel she just runs over me because she just assumes I will always be there, and if not, oh well, there is always the next guy to bankroll her.

Tired of it, really trying to hold strong, but unless she cracks soon I might.

Trying, holding on, but beginning to doubt the return may be worth it. Sad, really sad.

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Going to send her this in the morning-

Ok,



Been going through this in my head for a while now, and have to get it out.



I am sick to death of trying to make this work and show you that we can be better than ever before, for you to continue to treat me as an unimportant person without feelings and wants and needs.



There are two of us here, and you constantly act as if only your feelings count.



Well, sorry but they are not the only ones. While you roll around in self pity, everyone around you is suffering...you blame it on this or that, but guess what, no one lives in a vaccuum. Every thing you say or do effects other people, and right now I know some folks who I love dearly, who are hurting, and I am one of them.



I know you are still wondering if I can keep it up with the changes and be the man you want. Well, I will, but if you do not start acting like you husband and your family matters, you will never get the chance to find out.



It has been too long, too much is falling to pieces, and I cannot continue this ride. You either chose to stay and be a wife again, and we work out new guidelines and expectations, or you leave, right now.



Like gone, like gone for good, no return, period, and we will not be friends, I am growing to hate you almost as much as I love you, and I really don't like who you are now. You are not the person I married, nor the mother you once were. You have become so self focussed you cannot see what is going on around you, nor will you take any blame for it.



You were right, there is hope, but only if you commit to it, not telling me you cannot do so as you are too busy, then find a way to hang out with your friends all night.



Seems you have decided what is best for you and our daughter then.



You've had your time, no blaming anyone else, this is your time to decide what is best for everyone, and if it is worth the effort and pain and who will end up suffering that pain....



You have till Friday,


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

*breakthrough finally*

Well,

Decided that email would be cowardly, so I got home late last night after helping my son blood trail a deer he shot, with my daughter's 7 year old height and eyesight taking the lead.

She was sitting, as usual on the web, playing on facebook, her pretend life, and looked all grouchy when I cam in the door.

I just walked over, covered with blood (musta looked pretty rough after fighting dragging the deer through 300 yards of briars, streams and over fences, and just told her this-

Either you are staying and I will put up with this for a while, or you can leave, period.

She stopped, looked angry, and said, well I am still here aren't I, and I said either you commit 100% to working this all out, or its a no go, she said ok.

Didn't push after that, got a shower and went to bed.

Today she has called twice to joke and laugh, hopefully she realizes I mean what I said, and when we go to the counsellors on thursday I wonder if I should tell her my laundry list of things I need to see from her. And you all know what number one is....but I might keep that low keyed for now...whatcha think?

I think so.

Thanks for the advice, now will need it more than ever, so stick with me, been a hard 4 months.

Chris


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: breakthrough finally*



canders said:


> Either you are staying and I will put up with this for a while, or you can leave, period.


Dude, you have just issued an ultimatum. Cool. Now we're getting somwhere. If you want this to work you must not backtrack. Do not allow her to extract an "It was only said in the heat of the moment". She actually wanted you to give her an ultimatum (silly boy), because that made it easier for her to give in to you. She can say you "put a gun to her head". But that's fine. Let her think what she will. She's been twisting your nuts, so all's fair.

I don't know if you realise, but she has responded very positively to your firmness. This means you should keep it up. She is almost certain to test your resolve, a lot of guys buckle during this next phase. If you give into that it will be a merry go round. If you can temper firmness with love, you will be her prince.  Women always run interference. What I mean by that is, they have an inbuilt streak to put men of the scent if they are getting to close to knowing something. The best way to deal with this is a) Listen to your intuition even if she is telling you black is white, and it seems plausible. b)Pretend you are dumb. Lao Tse said "conceal you brightness". I can tell you are a clever guy, so you need to tone it right down.

One red light I see. You mentioned #1 - I assume you meant having sex to "seal the deal". Use a condom. Do not get her pregnant under any circumstances at this point. I remember a while ago, she asked you about giving her another baby while simultaneously saying you can't share a bed with her. The minds of woman grind slowly, but they grind! I doubt that she has changed track on the baby issue. But bringing another life into the equation right now would be a disaster for you.


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