# Wife refuses MC



## Cleaver Brooks (Jan 19, 2014)

Been married 16 years. Me 40 her 43, 1 child.

For years (10-12) our sex life has been crappy. It the same cycle we've repeated over and over over. She 'gives' me sex once a month when she's horny and for the rest of the month doesn't care. I can't talk to her about it because it always starts a fight and I just don't have the energy anymore. 

In the past couple years I've educated my self reading all the books... 5 Love Languages, His Needs, Her Needs, MMSL, MAP NMMNG. I even bought HNHN on CD so we could listen to it together. Her response... "Are you thinking of cheating on me?" "If you're not going to cheat, what do we need that for?" Didn't even get through the first chapter before she shut it off. 

With 5 Love languages, we joined a church group, of which this book was the topic.... sort of a book club.... She quit going the week we would have discussed the chapter on physical touch which happens to be my love language. She seems to have no capacity to empathize with me or self evaluate or to see any perspective other than her own. Its absolutely has me pulling my hair out.

I have asked many times over the years to go to marriage counseling with me but she has refused. So last week after a particularly hard week, I called and scheduled an appointment with a therapist. I scheduled it for a night she was off and my son was at an over night. I let her know the night before what I had done and she again refused to go. Here's the kicker... even though she refused, I figured I'd go anyway. I have read on these forums before how one spouse might go alone if the other refuses... I get there and the therapist refused to see me because my wife wasn't there?!?!? It was like a gut punch. I just needed to gain some perspective and unload this burden on someone. The therapist said if I spoke to him he would never be able to counsel us as a couple because my wife would feel ganged up on. It was a complete let down. Sometimes I think the only answer to my problem is divorce. But I really do love my wife and I would miss her terribly. I'm just not sure what to do at this point. 

What would you do if your spouse completely refused to see a therapist.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

How old is your kid?

Does your wife work outside of the home?


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## Cleaver Brooks (Jan 19, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> How old is your kid?
> 
> Does your wife work outside of the home?


kid is 9 

Wife works out side home.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Serve her divorce papers. 

If she won't help.... either it will be a wake up call for her to TRY, or y'all split up. I'd tell her she can't have it both ways. This is not a fulfilling marriage, so you have nothing to lose. 

MAYBE it will light a fire under her butt? You can start the ball rolling, and if she comes around you don't go through with the divorce. You can stop it at any time before it's final.

And get another counselor. Go by yourself again.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm not gonna lie, I'd be tempted to divorce. For now, maybe read through some of the threads in the "Sex in Marriage" forum -- there are tons of stories just like yours over there.

I can see the therapist's POV in refusing to see you... did he at least refer you to someone else for individual counseling?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

When I hear of a spouse who will not go to counseling to improve their marriage that tells me they don't think there is a problem and therefore see no reason to change. It also tells me they don't care enough about their spouse to change and improve the marriage. She isn't going to change. She doesn't even want to talk about it. 

You really only have two choices, stay and put up with the crappy sex life and be there for your son and enjoy the good parts of your marriage or leave now or when your son is grown and out of the house.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cleaver Brooks said:


> Here's the kicker... even though she refused, I figured I'd go anyway. I have read on these forums before how one spouse might go alone if the other refuses... I get there and the therapist refused to see me because my wife wasn't there?!?!? It was like a gut punch. I just needed to gain some perspective and unload this burden on someone. The therapist said if I spoke to him he would never be able to counsel us as a couple because my wife would feel ganged up on. It was a complete let down.


The MC is right. MC is for couples, not individuals. Since she will not go, find a individual counselor and YOU go alone.



Cleaver Brooks said:


> Sometimes I think the only answer to my problem is divorce. But I really do love my wife and I would miss her terribly. I'm just not sure what to do at this point. QUOTE]
> Really? You love someone who mistreats you? Withhold affection/intimacy (to include sex) is a form of serious emotional abuse. What is to be loved about someone who abuses you?
> 
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Cleaver_Brooks, 
I'm sorry but I think MC IS the last resort and she hasn't taken it. It is not at all unreasonable for you to let her know that you want MC, or you want a divorce.

I'm sorry its down to this.


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

"What would you do if your spouse completely refused to see a therapist."

I asked my ex husband to go to therapy with me a few times and he refused. You'll notice that I said EX husband. Yes, this is really important. I lost respect and eventually love for him. I felt like he didn't think that our marriage and family life was important enough to work on. So after our divorce he said to me "I wish I had listened to you and gone to therapy together when you asked me to". Too little too late. 

Somehow you have to tell her that this is that important to you. That your marriage depends on the both of you working on it. If she doesn't want to work on it with you, then you can work on yourself and eventually you will move on without her. I guarantee it. Will you miss her and be saddened by it? Of course. But your life will be better either way - with her working together with you (your first preference) or with you working on your own self improvement.


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## Cleaver Brooks (Jan 19, 2014)

Thankyou for all the responses. I know what needs to be done I just hate the idea of an ultimatum. But this might be where I'm at. 

I've been going over in my mind how I can proceed and know in my heart that I have done everything I can to save my marriage. I'm thinking of putting it on a time table.... ie: if by some date (6-12mo?) there has not been a change of heart or some significant improvement, I'm going to file. 

Between now and then, I'll try to simplify our financial web, make sure I'm meeting her needs, make my needs crystal clear (in case they aren't already), encourage her to see the light, give every opportunity for success. Then if she still lets me down and I divorce her I'll have no regrets.

Does that sound reasonable?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Cleaver Brooks said:


> Thankyou for all the responses. I know what needs to be done I just hate the idea of an ultimatum. But this might be where I'm at.
> 
> I've been going over in my mind how I can proceed and know in my heart that I have done everything I can to save my marriage. I'm thinking of putting it on a time table.... ie: if by some date (6-12mo?) there has not been a change of heart or some significant improvement, I'm going to file.
> 
> ...


Well, it doesn't sound _unreasonable_, but, based on the account that you've given thus far, I'd say that it sounds as if you've already done or are actively doing much of that anyway. Am I right?


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear your woes Cleaver. I was in the same position as you. I tried getting my GF to go see a couples counselor. I was successful one time and I ended up doing 90% of the talking. Even then I still felt alone. 

What I have realized is I can try all I want but if she chooses not to do something to better herself/the relationship that's on her. I now refuse to just spin my wheels in hopes or small glimmers. 

What I did. Stop trying to get her to see the bigger picture. I readjusted my focus on me and stopped showing concern with her. Doing this has shown that it is just me wanting to move forward. Does it suck? Yep. Like you, I love her. I still do. But that love won't come at the cost of my mental health. Love yourself as much as you love her. Dredge through the fog for a bit while you work on you. You'll come out a better man, with or without her.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Don't bother with the monthly sex. It's not worth it. Also make sure you separate the financial picture etc. If she's verbally abusive a VAR or two can gather useful info for later custody issues.

How's her mental state overall? Work stress? It could be what you see is what you get.

Contrary to TAM opinion the DIY help books don't work very well in hardcore cases so... First figure if it is fixable then if it's worth fixing.

Also talk to a competent divorce lawyer to get a better picture of the divorce process in your state.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

Your wife is still too young for menopause years, but please let me tell tell you, it will only be going down hill from here than uphill. Sorry, as that world brings on its own issues as well... 

Women go through a lot of crazy things. First, I really believe, women really like sex, they just don't like bad sex. Our partner often blame us for not liking sex, and not wanting it. Yes, they are right to an extent, because often it's bad sex. 

What if your wife would be open to is a sex therapist, ?? but oh no!!! people think right away they are to perform sex in an office, lol... 
It may or may not be an option now, as it might have gone far to beyond in the psychic for your marriage together, she may be too shut down to the the idea, but a sex therapist will help to get in-touch with the inner person, and you both will explore things together privately, and start out with things like romantic dinners...more touchy feely.

...and if anyone is watching 'Masters of Sex', one will learn how good sex can be when the chemistry is there...  when it is right, there is no faking it. 

~sammy


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> Your wife is still too young for menopause years...


This isn't necessarily true. Some women enter menopause in their early 40's.


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## Cleaver Brooks (Jan 19, 2014)

The pre menopause thing may be a factor as of late. She has always been *****y around shark week but last month was really bad. It was more like out of the blue rage. Overall, however, ours are not new problems. They have been going on for over a decade. I just don't want to deal with it anymore and she doesn't want to work at fixing it. 

Gus, you are correct. I essentially HAVE been dealing with this long enough. Its just time to put a stop to it. Its funny... in a sad sort of way... I started this thread as my wife and I were butting heads over the MC. Now for the past day shes been really nice... the woman I fell for all those years ago. I just know that the niceness will be short lived and I am already mentally preparing myself for the return of my wifes *****y evil side. It won't be long....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Cleaver Brooks said:


> The pre menopause thing may be a factor as of late. *She has always been *****y around shark week* but last month was really bad. It was more like out of the blue rage. Overall, however, ours are not new problems. They have been going on for over a decade. I just don't want to deal with it anymore and she doesn't want to work at fixing it.
> 
> Gus, you are correct. I essentially HAVE been dealing with this long enough. Its just time to put a stop to it. Its funny... in a sad sort of way... I started this thread as my wife and I were butting heads over the MC. Now for the past day shes been really nice... the woman I fell for all those years ago. I just know that the niceness will be short lived and I am already mentally preparing myself for the return of my wifes *****y evil side. It won't be long....


:lol: :rofl:

Sorry, but that's hilarious. I've heard of "Uncle Tom", "Aunt Flo", and "riding the cotton pony", but I've never heard it referred to as "shark week". I'm glad that I wasn't drinking anything when I read that, because it'd be all over my monitor right now if I had been.

Anyway, sorry for what you're going through. Maybe once the mood lightens a bit you could have one last talk w/ her to let her know how close you are on pulling the trigger on separation/divorce.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Cleaver Brooks said:


> Been married 16 years. Me 40 her 43, 1 child.
> 
> For years (10-12) our sex life has been crappy. It the same cycle we've repeated over and over over. She 'gives' me sex once a month when she's horny and for the rest of the month doesn't care. I can't talk to her about it because it always starts a fight and I just don't have the energy anymore.
> 
> ...


I'd tell her we're seeing one of two possible professionals.

We either see a therapist AND a doctor for her or we see attorneys and Judge.

That isn't acceptable. If it was me, the once of month thing would get shut down. I have a very high drive, but I can also go into camel mode. If she outright REFUSED me and I've done everything possible to make myself desirable. I'd refuse her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My take is either she's not attracted to you any more or she's bat **** crazy. Or both.

You read lots of books. What have you done with what you have learned?

Did anything provoke a response?

How would you describe her physically and personality-wise

How would she describe you?


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

Cleaver Brooks said:


> Thankyou for all the responses. I know what needs to be done I just hate the idea of an ultimatum. But this might be where I'm at.
> 
> I've been going over in my mind how I can proceed and know in my heart that I have done everything I can to save my marriage. I'm thinking of putting it on a time table.... ie: if by some date (6-12mo?) there has not been a change of heart or some significant improvement, I'm going to file.
> 
> ...


I glanced through the responses, and I should preface by saying I'm probably less qualified than a lot of these guys, since I haven't been in this situation, but here's my thinking:

If your wife isn't willing to work on your relationship, it isn't going to change in the next 6-12 months. There is no point in assigning an arbitrary timeline for the actions you plan on taking. 

With that said, you haven't been specific about how you have approached her in an effort to discuss your marriage, and how she has reacted. It's probably difficult to assume the best of her at this point, and difficult to put yourself out there and be vulnerable, but there are things you can try WITHIN your marriage, without going for outside help from a psychologist or a book. It's possible your wife has an issue with that specific approach, and there may be ways to circumvent it. 

I'm not saying this will work - it's possible she won't be willing to try anything at all, and it sounds like that might be the case - but can you try different approaches, and try to set aside any response you might have if she attacks when you are vulnerable? 

For example, tell her straightforwardly "It's really important to me that we talk about our relationship. We don't have to go see a counselor, but we could go grab a coffee, or go for a walk." 

Or, you could try writing her a letter explaining your thoughts and feelings and laying it on the line. This might be a good way to bring up the possibility of divorce, and to say it isn't something you want to do, but you feel like you're on your own in trying to sort this out. If you write a letter, set it aside for a few days then read it again as if you're not you. Make sure it reads as heartfelt and sincere. Suggest that she write a letter back, even. 

I think you're beyond the point of gentle queries, but that doesn't mean you're beyond the point of assuming the best. If you write the letter: Don't talk about all the things you've been trying to do - talk about the things you love about her, and the things that make you want to stay. Give her a reason to remember why she loves you too. 

If there really isn't a way to approach this to gain her participation (and if you feel like you've gone to these lengths already), then I agree with what others here have said: It might be time to file papers. A marriage is a team, and if one teammate gives up completely, you're already not a team anymore. 

But again, grain of salt: It's not something I've been through. 

All the best, 
-Fai


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## CoralReef (Jul 1, 2014)

Your wife sounds very selfish. She likely knows that you are very unhappy but she is also over confident in assuming that you will never stray or divorce her. As such, she doesn't think she needs to change anything to keep you right where you are.

I would start making it very clear, yet in an empathetic fashion, what you need from her. If talking leads to arguments try writing her an email. Emails will also serve as proof that you wanted to save the marriage if later she tries to act like she was the perfect wife and you were the cruel husband who abandoned her when she needed you most. Being able to show her those emails down the line and say "Hey, I told you that I loved you but was not fulfilled. You refused to do anything to help the situation. You simply wanted me to be happy in misery because you were content."


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> This isn't necessarily true. Some women enter menopause in their early 40's.


 Yeap, your right, but for the most part, it's pre-menopause...or unless it is health related then a women can go into menopause immediately.

Some women sail through and some crash badly... which ever, it's a change, mentally & physically. 

Something is up with your wife. she is going thur something. She may not be being honest with herself or you, or she just doesnt care anymore, either way, none of it is good. 
-sammy


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Find a counselor who will see you alone or together. Go see said counselor. Keep up with your self improvement via 180, mmsl, etc.. Be better. Do everything you can to improve yourself. The counselor will help you dig into any vote issues you have and more importantly help you create boundaries. These boundaries may or may not help your relationship with your wife, but they will help you be a better man for mrs right( your wife or a new mrs right)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Happilymarried25 said:


> When I hear of a spouse who will not go to counseling to improve their marriage that tells me they don't think there is a problem and therefore see no reason to change. It also tells me they don't care enough about their spouse to change and improve the marriage. She isn't going to change. She doesn't even want to talk about it.


Or, there is something she doesn't want discovered during MC. It may or may not be a factor here, as OP's wife does seem to fill the description of not caring rather than running away from something.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Cleaver_Brooks,
> I'm sorry but I think MC IS the last resort and she hasn't taken it. It is not at all unreasonable for you to let her know that you want MC, or you want a divorce.
> 
> I'm sorry its down to this.


:iagree:

When she has so little regard for the marriage that she is unwilling to participate in rescuing it from an obviously bad situation, it tells you all you need to know. She is not willing to make any effort to change things, and thus things will never change.


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## JASON56 (Aug 28, 2014)

If she is starting Meno-pause , then she will be getting hot flashes, if not now in the near future..Meno-pause most of the time is a sex-killer..


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Not so Jason.


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