# Am I crazy - do I need a 2x4?



## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Sorry for long post. Here's my story (short version I have been in the CWI section mainly):

Married 25 years, two daughters 12 and 14.

Great marriage for the first 15 - 17 years. Some problems for the next 5 (drifting apart - kids, work). Wife has major MLC. Wife had an EA starting in 2008 which became a brief 4-6 Month PA in late Summer/Fall 2009 (all secret). I discover evidence of the EA in 2010 and confront - stbxw allows me to believe it was just an EA and we go into false R. We have a rollercoaster of some great times and bad times during the false R. Great Summer Vacation 2012. Then wife is introduced to POSOM2 in August (by her toxic friends) and becomes infatuated - we separate in Sept - stbxw moves out in Oct. Wife (in fog) contacts POSOM2. I speak with POSOM2 and he says he will stay away (a lie). Meanwhile, stbxw confesses PA/2009 (AFTER moving out). Complicated, isn't it? We are in mediation and the meetings have created a lot of tension.

stbxw has always been self-centered, yet she has also had this sweet, fresh side to her which disappeared after her MLC. She's successful, attractive, and very loving until the switch gets turned off - then she is cold as ice. She has been in some form of fog continually since her EA. (that might just be my optimism. Maybe it's NOT a fog - maybe it's who she is).

So here is where I may need a 2x4. I miss my wife. I miss her presence, I miss waking up with her, I miss her smell, I miss her touch. I even miss her with the kids (she alternated between being a great Mom/night clubbing Mom during her MLC). 

Everything is more complicated with the separation. I am in our house - but it is joint name. If we sell, neither of us could buy back into the neighborhood because housing prices have doubled and are surprising strong where we live. Yet we both want the kids to stay in the same school through high school.

But beyond the practical - I still hold out hope that my wife is in a long-term fog and that she could emerge someday. This is where I can't seem to get past. This remaining hope business is killing me. And I know what my failings were during our marriage - I recognize how I contributed to the decline - too late, but I know my own behaviour contributed and I'm working on it.

Her current fog: Her POSOM2 is a semi-public figure and separated. They are keeping their relationship totally underground - I think because HE does not want it out there (get this - his family has strong evangelical religious leadership ties and Dad has had 3 marriages - the first two ending in affairs. So I don't think they want any more "adultery scandals" to hit the news). I've been warned (by my lawyer as well as our mediator) to stay out of my stbxw's business (since we're separated) so I have been respecting that and have not made any more contact with the POSOM2 or my stbxw about this. I suspect that the POSOM2 is like the dad - a scam artist. But it will look very bad if I interfere - my own lawyer advised staying out of it. Besides which, my stbxw and I are separated - so it is even adultery?

So why do I care? I have regressed the past week from a state of indifference to one where memories and mind movies (which I never had before - even with POSOM1) are screwing up my head. Had a really bad night. Why is this? What's wrong with me?

And am I crazy for still thinking that there is a >0% chance we could get back together? When my stbxw is in one of her normal moods - she is still attractive to me. But the question is - maybe her fog is permanent and her "normal" moments will disappear completely.

My stbxw has done nothing to indicate she wants to EVER reconcile - there have been a lot of heated arguments and bad blood ever since the separation (which started amicably) - yet I have this urge to write her a letter (not a pleading letter - but a letter to tell her how I felt about her during our marriage (she thinks I just didn't like her - and truthfully - sometimes I didn't because of how she acted - but I never stopped loving her). At the very least - I want to express that things cannot go on like this because it's becoming impossible to deal with stuff even for the kids. Is this stupid? 

Anyway, feel like I've gone backwards about two or three months in my recovery.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Sorry for long post. Here's my story (short version I have been in the CWI section mainly):
> 
> Married 25 years, two daughters 12 and 14.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear your story brother. I can sympathize as my stbxw pulled the whole secret posOM thing. We are now divorcing after a nearly a year of separation whic too started out with relatively little conflict.

You must move on.

You speak of "fog". 

Your stbxw has had two PAs that you know of.

She has shown you who she really is, so believe her.

Work on you.

Will she ever have an epiphany and realize what she has done and walked away from?

Who knows.

But you need to be in a place of strength regardless of the outcome.

Once you are there, you will know you deserve better.

Hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Write the letter, just don't give it to her. Post it on here if you have to.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks guys. I haven't written the letter yet - don't know what I would say.

It's just so frustrating to hear her complain about how bad it was and how long she was unhappy. It's like our 25 year marriage was 100% bad. And keep in mind - we had 10 years together before we had children - it was like a 10 year honeymoon - seriously. And she's forgotten all about it. And I look back at photo's and see us after work in the basement playing with the kids - my stbxw in cutoff jeans and a t-shirt and her face is glowing.... GLOWING with happiness. Then something happened and the simple things were no longer fun. Then, when our youngest was 3 or 4 - something changed. And in the next couple years she was full blown into her MLC.

And since her affair - she has been re-writing our history so that even before kids, in her mind, she was unhappy.

So here's what traps me. Even during our false R - there were these moments where the old stbxw showed up. Just little things - a touch here, a head on my shoulder there. And throughout - we had a satisfying sex life (until the last 6 - 9 months when it became all me wanting it). It's those brief moments where even the look in her eyes changed back to her old self that I don't want to give up. But maybe it was like a slot machine - just random rewards to keep you hooked?

I have this fear that she'll snap out of her fog, but will never admit it because of pride, saving face, as well as her impression that I hate her. (I do, because of what she's doing, but I still love her... make sense?) That's why I want to write the letter. I am moving on.... slowly (and relapsing right now) - at the same time, if she was truly willing, I would work on a new relationship with her under certain conditions.

Anyway can't shake the feeling that my old wife is stuck inside my stbxw, crying to get out. She needs a whack in the head with a TAM 2x4 to snap out of the fog - but she'll never seek help. So I'm stuck as a result. 

It's been so easy to advise others to detach - but can't seem to take my own advice. How stupid is that?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Thanks guys. I haven't written the letter yet - don't know what I would say.
> 
> It's just so frustrating to hear her complain about how bad it was and how long she was unhappy. It's like our 25 year marriage was 100% bad. And keep in mind - we had 10 years together before we had children - it was like a 10 year honeymoon - seriously. And she's forgotten all about it. And I look back at photo's and see us after work in the basement playing with the kids - my stbxw in cutoff jeans and a t-shirt and her face is glowing.... GLOWING with happiness. Then something happened and the simple things were no longer fun. Then, when our youngest was 3 or 4 - something changed. And in the next couple years she was full blown into her MLC.
> 
> ...


Rewriting history.

Blame shifting.

It's all part of the validation for the betrayal and walking away.

Her actions are no longer your problem.

The sooner you keep your focus on you and your kids, the sooner you will be able to begin moving on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> It's been so easy to advise others to detach - but can't seem to take my own advice. How stupid is that?



I'm in the same boat. I have no clue on how to handle my WAW. One day at a a time. Whole lot easier to give advice than to implement your own.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Move on. Find a better woman.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Write the letter, pour out all those thoughts and feelings.....then burn it! You do not want it getting into her hands accidently!


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## TNman (Dec 24, 2012)

It is so easy to read other's stories and give logical objective advice. Yes you should let her go. Problem is when it is us feeling the hurt, loss, betrayal, and remembering the good times we are subjective and can't accept objective advice easily. I am in the same boat myself- my head knows what is proper but my heart doesn't want to give up.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Cedar remember this...

History cannot be changed. Truth cannot be changed. 

No matter how hard she tries she will never "re-write" history. Your families and the people who have known the two of you have seen the history and the truth, and no matter how she tries to spin it with them, they know what happened. 

So let her rant and rave and delude herself. The truth cannot be buried or suppressed. It will come back to haunt her one day down the road when all of her sins visit themselves on her. 

I wouldn't say take consolation in that, but by that time you will have healed, found love again, and will no longer care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Cederman you know this is whipping the dead horse. I told you to find a piece this weekend and you didn't and look what happened. I'm almost 3 years out ex has been over the last 3 months trying to hit on me. Now would I be tempted to do her ah yea, but I think my self respect, my daughter and my girlfriend have stopped me from this train wreck. Hit some dating sites.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Write it out. Don't send it. Don't be hasty. 

Is there something your trying to really accomplish here? I mean do you really think a letter is going to 'snap her out of it?' If you want to send it...are you FULLY prepared for the possible rejection? Are you understanding this is all for a woman you cannot trust? You really thinking this through? Could be your just going through a set back phase here...stop looking at old pictures...they capture someone who is no longer...

I think you should just slow down...and look at"" your""bigger picture...

Feeling lonely can make us want to turn to the familiar also...of course we love them as well...but it sounds like you have come really far...

Think about this...guard your heart...remember what she has put you through. What would you be trying to go back too? Mistrust? What kind of life is that?? 
If her own pride is keeping herself from you like you think...then what are you worth to her? ...not much my friend. If she wanted you...I think you would know it and not have to put yourself in position to fish or chase...

Careful...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would find a way to expose this phony christian pos. Do it under the radar though.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Cedar remember this...
> 
> *History cannot be changed. Truth cannot be changed.
> 
> ...


Not to hijack...

But every single word here (not dealing with infidelities but other bad marital crap) can apply to me...I like how you say the truth cannot be buried or suppressed. ...and when all the sins will visit themselves on 'him'....

Wow.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if/when that moment ever happened...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Stella Moon said:


> Not to hijack...
> 
> But every single word here (not dealing with infidelities but other bad marital crap) can apply to me...I like how you say the truth cannot be buried or suppressed. ...and when all the sins will visit themselves on 'him'....
> 
> Wow.. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if/when that moment ever happened...


Cedar will never see this. 

No, his WW wil experience this "epiphany" if you will on her own, one day five or ten years down the road, long after her affairs have fizzled out, when she's too old to attract a man, and her children have no time for her and her bullshyt... she'll be alone somewhere looking in the mirror and the mountain of self delusion that she has built will collapse, rumbling down on top of her in an avalanche.

She will be alone with the truth of her misdeeds and it will utterly and completely devastate her... 

But she won't let anyone know....not Cedar... not the children... because she will still have her favorite bedfellow and ally *Pride* there to hide her pain and help her remain stoic. 

She'll take this private pain with her to her grave with a big, bright, flashy porcelain smile.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You miss the good that you had with her. Don't beat yourself up about it. 

But don't mistake missing those moments of "good" as missing "her". 

She has shown you who she really is. I don't think it is a fog. I really don't. She is acting like every other serial cheater out there...the blameshifting, rewriting history...all of it. She is following the script. You have to see that. 

Will any of these types of people wake up to see the destruction they leave with their actions? Maybe. Maybe not. But even if they do, like bandit said...PRIDE will be too much for them to admit they were wrong. 

Hang in there, but I would not send her a letter or anything. Post it here. Write it then burn it. She will not care what you have to say.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sounds like you are missing the illusion of the marriage you thought you had. It hurts. Just keep breathing and remember, remember everything. I'm sure she was not all bad, but not good at being faithful, or being married, or being honest. We all deserve honest.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Well, I didn't write anything. And I found out some new stuff - I was all wrong about POSOM2. She's doing something with POSOM1. Don't ask how I figured this out as I won't be able to post it - but I'm 99% sure. And it's probably got something to do with payback for my stbxw finally telling me and me contacting the POSOM1. My stbxw felt guilty about that and the POSOM1 is enough of an a-hole to extract some favours because of it.

Thanks for all the support. It was the roughest weekend of this entire thing for me. Still feel down. Had IC today and she suggested going to my family doctor and maybe getting some medication. Want to avoid that if possible but really feel like I am obsessing over this. Literally can't go a minute without thinking about it right now. And two weeks ago, I thought I was almost totally moved on.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

How you feeling today, Cedar? Hope you are dealing with the new information ok. Take it as a positive that she is showing you even more who she really is....

Embrace what you are feeling and experience it but don't dwell on it. I know you can pick yourself up from this small setback.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> How you feeling today, Cedar? Hope you are dealing with the new information ok. Take it as a positive that she is showing you even more who she really is....
> 
> Embrace what you are feeling and experience it but don't dwell on it. I know you can pick yourself up from this small setback.


Thanks for asking... Still feeling pretty bad - but off the bottom. Trying to see if I can go one hour at a time without thinking about it. I'm obviously still not over her even though she's like poison. She is very broken - submitting herself to all sorts of degradation/domination/humiliation - like she's truly gone crazy. 5 years ago, she would volunteer every month to help out in our youngest daughter's classroom... 

Again, thanks for the advice. Have to do something else for a while.... like work. My mind's a mess....


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