# Affair, Recovery, Separation



## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi All, 
First post...it may be a bit long...but I will give the condensed version.

I'm the WH. been with my wife since high school, which has been 25 years. I'm also a recovering addict. Had 23 years clean, relapsed for 5 years and now have almost 10 months clean.

Just about 2 years ago, a PA was initiated and I participated. I was also using at the time...not that using made me cheat. I used drugs to assist in covering my guilt along with using to escape life in general. The affair lasted 14 months

DDay was Jan 2013. I disclosed everything. I had been having an affair with her friend.
I moved out for 6 weeks and began a relentless journey of recovery. I started going to NA meetings, stopped using, went to a affair recovery workshop, went to an intensive MC weekend session, have been doing MC weekly and IC weekly. Started going back to church also.

I was willing to gut myself, give full access to everything, total transparency. So transparent that I would also talk about how hard it was for me to "get over" my AP. I begged God, cried daily , willing to do ANYTHING to get the obsession of my AP to leave me. for 9 months I continued doing all the therapy, meetings, books, workbooks...anything that was suggested, I would do. I was an absolute open book and I was totally ok with it. It was actually a relief...I had nothing to hide anymore.

My biggest problem was getting over the AP. I would have very small glimpses of hope that the obsession was fading, but in the last 3 months, it all came back very strong. And I was TOTALLY NC the entire time. I did pass her in the car on 3 occasions and my world fell apart each time. I would take me like 3 days to pull it together.
I would not always outwardly display my mental torture, but my wife would sense I was preoccupied. and I was REALLY REALLY trying so hard every day to focus on my wife and our marriage but was so consumed with AP obsession.
I do have a history of OCD, so one part of me was not surprised, but I was living in a daily hell.

Well come around to about 1.5 months ago. In MC I brought up something regarding my thoughts to do with the AP. It all broke loose and my wife asked me to leave. To basically figure IT out on my own.
I didnt freak out on her and I never did over the 9 months...I did whatever she requested.

Well I moved out...to my brothers basement...and my obsession came along with me. Feeling I had no options left on how to deal with my AP obsession, I took the only action I felt I had and through a series of attempts, I contacted her.
I was also reeling with a ton of emotions from anger to hurt to rejection to telling my wife I'm thinking about divorce. I have been a mixed up mess throughout this process of recovery.

Through my AP contact, I told her exactly what I have dealt with, how I THINK I feel about her and what the reality of this relationship is. I expressed that I am not looking to get into anything...the only thing I knew was I needed to spill my emotional guts and leave it at that.
I did not have sex with her and I was not planning on it. All I wanted was relief and release from my 24x7 obsession.

We talked frequently over the next few weeks as my obsessive thoughts would have peaks and valleys and I was hoping to see this relationship die a natural death. That my obsessive brain can now see that this relationship is not practical, there is no real love and going this route will never ever fix the stuff inside of me.

I feel like I got that relief. I went NC over a week ago and I feel like I can put the tools of recovery to work without being obsessed over her.

My wife knows I had contact with the AP.

Now I feel like we are in a holding pattern for a while before my wife will make a move. In fact I feel like she is doing the 180 to me. Which is fine. I am, for the first time, really trying to EMPATHIZE with her...and I dont think I had a real opportunity to do that because I was so balls out about my drug recovery and marriage recovery. I felt like I didnt breath for 9 months.

I sent my wife an email this morning telling her that I am sorry I have not empathized with her and that my addiction behaviors for a lot of our marriage has done a lot of damage. Even though I was clean for 23 years, i just didnt use, I never went to meetings. This is the first time in my life that I am actually doing a 12 step program relentlessly.

I love my wife, we have history, we have memories, we have gone through SO much together and she knows me inside and out. I want this to work...I actually really want this to work. And I'm sick to my gut thinking that she is slowly slipping away from me. I dont want to chase after her because I'm afraid I would be manipulating her to a place she is not ready for. I really want this to be in her timing and timing that is good for reconciling.

Thats the short version...please dont rail me...I already walk around in a world of shame and guilt all over again.
saaben900


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

How do you plan on NOT contacting your AP again? What will stop you this time?


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

I managed NC for 9 months...I can only promise that today I will not contact her and my ongoing recovery plan includes NC.
I would classify contacting her equal to using...and if I choose that route, then I need to let my wife go live a happy life with someone.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> I managed NC for 9 months...I can only promise that today I will not contact her and my ongoing recovery plan includes NC.
> I would classify contacting her equal to using...and if I choose that route, then I need to let my wife go live a happy life with someone.


I would say "Try again."

But I'm willing to leave the scene for my fellow TAM members, let's hear what they have to say on the matter.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK, we heard your "poor me, this is so hard" story.

We get that. Really. And how obsessive you are over the POSOW (with the husband of her friend? Yeah. That's real friendship, right there, huh?) what you mean or meant to each other, etc.

What are you and your POSOW going to do to make it right for your wife? (You do realise that's going to be as tough as eating consume soup with a fork, right?) 

Incidentally, do you and your wife have any children? 

The POSOW. Is she married? Does she have any children?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

If your wife was in love like you were the AP, how would you feel?

Your wife has been hurt, rejected, made to feel like she is second place. My WW killed my love for her.

I hope your wife still has feelings left. You will really need to not be selfish and put her first, if she gives you another chance.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> I managed NC for 9 months...I can only promise that today I will not contact her and my ongoing recovery plan includes NC.
> I would classify contacting her equal to using...and if I choose that route, then I need to let my wife go live a happy life with someone.


Seriously so she needs to hold your hand "one day at a time" for not only your sobriety but your fidelity? 

You are a recovering addict, you are a cheater, you broke NC. That along with your promise of only today...One too many strikes for me. Let your wife go and live a happy life. Work on yourself.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP I believe that you love your wife.... you just don't love her enough.

Let the poor woman go... she has stood by you through addiction and THE most betraying of affairs (with her friend) yet you continue to do things that are damaging to your marriage and knife in the heart painful to your wife.

You've been NC for ONE WEEK. 
So what??
Big deal....with your history it means very little.

Your wife doesn't deserve to under your 'one day at a time' life sentence.

JMO


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If you are still obsessed with the POSOW then you are nowhere close to reconciling with your wife. Until you are totally indifferent or disgusted by POSOW your wife is a distant second.

As for "letting your wife find happiness" - well that is not your decision to make. The ball is in your wife's court now. She may just solve all your problems for you if she is smart.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Do you realize how ridiculous is a "recovering! addict choose to get rid of his "other adiction" slowly?
Do you know anyone who suceedeed this way?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_Just about 2 years ago, a PA was initiated and I participated._

Have you really owned up to what you've done, or are you bending over backwards to mitigate? The above quote from your OP makes it sound like you were innocently waiting at a bus stop when the affair wagon rolled up and you decided to get on.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm confused about what the actual question is here.

Do you just want reactions to your situation?

If so, I can say that my immediate reaction is that you are not owning up to the pain and damage you have caused. It's in your language as well as actions (an affair 'was initiated and I participated').

You have unfortunately created a reality that will represent a major turning point in your life - what you have done to create this is terrible and you will spend your life regretting it, I am sure. It is what it is, though. You have already done so much damage.

I think you should commit to becoming an improved person and leave your BW alone to make her own decisions. Perhaps with some time, if you in fact can stay away from your AP (who is an awful person for doing this to a friend, btw), stay clean, and recover your honor as a human being, your BW might give you a chance.

You are trying to redeem yourself through your BW and you should stop this right now. You have already burdened her enough.


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

Ummm...wow. Does anyone have any experience with the disease of addiction? Or the issues of OCD?
Infidelity seems to be treated worse than murder. 
I posted here looking for help. I have the willingness to do recovery and not damage more people in my life. 
U all respond line I'm running around with an uzi haphazardly and purposely doing this stuff. 
I know what I did. I am owning it and have been there for my wife since disclosure. 
What I have done recently has been my own best guess at trying to fix things. 
Since I have a willingness to want to recover this why is the theme of these response so bleak? 
I think if most of you said this stuff to me in person I would be able to see your real intent...right now it just seems that I should be hung. 

This crapfest of infidelity happens all the time and people work through the hardest of issues. I'm not discounting the action of infidelity. You also make it sound like only "certain" styles of infidelity are worthy of recovery. 

I'm willing, I'm open and I'm engaged in recovery. 
Are all of you the betrayed spouse?maybe I posted in the wrong area. 

My wife can do whatever the crap she wants to do. All I'm doing now is attending my program of recovery and maybe there is some chance that our lives can survive this and we can come back to a live that was even better than what we had. 

There is no handbook on this. So offer something helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

And what does not make sense about offered and participated???
That's exactly what happened. I was offered an opportunity and I frigin participated. I'm owning that I got involved and did this. 
It's Symantec's at this point. 
She initiated, I showed up. And I continued to show up. I did it. Yes, see I owned it and have owned it. 
Unreal. 


alte Dame said:


> I'm confused about what the actual question is here.
> 
> Do you just want reactions to your situation?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow, the object of your infatuation f!cked her friends husband. Sounds like a real catch. Why don't you grow up and let your wife go, you and her pos friend deserve each other. Let her deal with your sh!t, and see how long you look like a good deal.
And by the way, what makes you a pos isn't even the original affair, it's that everybody can see you're looking for ways to keep your wife and keep f!cking her friend. Everything is about you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

That was helpful. 
Thanks


lifeistooshort said:


> Wow, the object of your infatuation f!cked her friends husband. Sounds like a real catch. Why don't you grow up and let your wife go, you and her pos friend deserve each other. Let her deal with your sh!t, and see how long you look like a good deal.
> And by the way, what makes you a pos isn't even the original affair, it's that everybody can see you're looking for ways to keep your wife and keep f!cking her friend. Everything is about you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> Ummm...wow. Does anyone have any experience with the disease of addiction? Or the issues of OCD?
> Infidelity seems to be treated worse than murder.
> I posted here looking for help. I have the willingness to do recovery and not damage more people in my life.
> U all respond line I'm running around with an uzi haphazardly and purposely doing this stuff.
> ...


Wohoho. Slow down chief, you'll make me believe you're the victim in that whole mess.

We're all BS? yeah, we are. I walked in on my fiance with her landlord. You need more experience? Years later I banged my friend's girlfriend, for a year and a half. I became the OM. Want more experience? I walked in on my collegaue kissing another man during a cig break just 4 days ago, and loked her in the eye seconds later hearing her "hey! what's up". Want more experience?

I'm sure you don't. Your "situation" is not unique. I'll be 30 on December 8th. And I smoke cigs since I was 15. So don't come telling me about addiction either.

Don't run. Tell us what you want. Accept criticsm and try to think what your wife wil think about the whole ordeal.

Matt! I need you to insert some lines like "you need to leave the booze alone" in your next post.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> And what does not make sense about offered and participated???
> That's exactly what happened. I was offered an opportunity and I frigin participated. I'm owning that I got involved and did this.
> It's Symantec's at this point.
> She initiated, I showed up. And I continued to show up. I did it. Yes, see I owned it and have owned it.
> ...


OK, got it. Yes, probably most people here are betrayed spouses, which means you are definitely in the right place, because this is the perspective you need. 

BS's are quick to recognize the WS' efforts to minimize their culpability or responsibility, and the words you use to describe the start of the A sound very familiar: essentially, you are saying "she started it." Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way, but rest assured it does. But I'll take you at your word that you assume full ownership of your actions.

Trying to empathize with your W is a good way to go. The BS wants the WS to "get it," meaning to fully understand the breadth and depth of the damage done to the marriage and to the BS' self-esteem. One thing you weren't too clear on is whether you disclosed the A of your own accord or because you were caught. If it's the latter, you have a more difficult road ahead, because that will tell your W that she has no reason to think you won't do it again. 

As a way to understand the nature of the damage done, go back to this sentence from your OP:

_I love my wife, we have history, we have memories, we have gone through SO much together and she knows me inside and out. _

The affair could have negated or invalidated all of these things in her mind: If you loved her you would not have had an affair. You would not have made a fool of her. You lived a lie for 14 months, so how much of your shared history and memories are also lies? She doesn't really know you at all, because the man she knows would not have done this. Etc.

Just giving you the BS perspective here, because you didn't really ask for advice in your OP. Hopefully these considerations will help you empathize. It sounds like you've overcome steep odds in the past. I wish you luck with your reconciliation.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Make sure not to trickle truth her. If she asks you something tell her the truth; all of it. Don't think you're sparing her more pain by not telling her everything. This is lying by omission. She'll be more hurt when she finds things out later. She'll never believe she knows everything if she has to figure out all the right questions to ask. This is a huge obstacle to R.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Its sad that your actions have led to this point in your marriage.As of now the choices are in your wife's hands and rightly so.My thoughts are that the only thing you can really do now is work on yourself.Work the steps with a decent sponsor,who can hold you to task and really help you see what you need to focus on.It takes the brain quite awhile to recover from long term active addiction,if it ever fully recovers and from time to time the thought process can go off kilter.One of the things I did was find an aftercare group where we could discuss all the crap going on in our lives and some of the ways we could go about coming to terms with it.

If you do think of breaking NC again,I do hope you take a minute and do a little inventory with complete honesty with yourself.What would be the repercussions? Addiction is a hard thing to deal with all on its own.If in the end your marriage doesn't work out,which it may or may not,I hope you can find the better version of yourself.Take care.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

She may not give you an opportunity to put all of its tips to use, but this book will help you if you do interact with your wife:

How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald

You say you had OCD issues, as if in past tense only (have a "history of OCD"); do you perhaps need treatment for that now? It sounds like you could not shut off the obsessive thoughts and you knew that following through on the compulsion to have contact could have disastrous consequences. How do you know, and how can you assure your wife, that these thoughts and the compulsion to have contact will not return?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

You're trying to make yourself sound like a victim by giving it a label of addiction... yet you said yourself the addiction did not make you behave this way..... it may be one of the reasons but it certainly doesn't excuse your cheating.

Your wife is the only real victim here and yet you stand here with the knife in her heart..... twisting it...... pondering how you can fix things?

It sounds like she has been an awesome wife. Stood by you through more than many would. 

You should do what is good and right for her.... just for once think about her.... what would be best for her...this woman you love?

Do you think best would be life taken day by day ' with you hoping and praying you're not doing drugs or effing her friends?? 

note: I'm not a betrayed spouse.... just someone who would hate to be in your wifes situation.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You owe it to your wife to start respecting her. You do that by asking her what she wants after you tell her what you want and can do. Its her call, if she no longer wants a doper, liar, adulterer, ocd, etc.,around, let her go and be a good man about it.

Maybe she will change her mind if you man up.


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks for all the reasonable responses...I do appreciate it.

I think the empathy part is something I need to hang on to and really apply in my life, whether she stays with me or goes.

I continue to attend meetings and am talking to my sponsor about starting step work.
I know what I did was wrong, I have been owning it to the best of my ability. I know in my heart and mind that I need to do the work to arrest my disease of addiction and always know that my thinking and my ideas are screwed up right from the start.

My intentions moving forward are to do this recovery even better than I have.
I have spent some time thinking about if my wife had done this to me...I would have been devastated. And I realize that I have not really given her that piece...so that has to change in me.

I am not trying to justify myself, BUT...i hate to use the word BUT...over the 9 months of balls out recovery I thought I was doing everything I could to help this process along.
We would have days that would be really really good days together, then there would be days that where really really bad. To some degree, I thought the 9 month mark would have us both in a better place...again as I posted earlier, there is no handbook on this process.
Right from the start, I gave access to everything I have, I sold my car because I had sex in it with the OW, I cut out my entire social network, I even sat with the OW husband and let him have his way with me.
Again, I'm NOT saying any of this to JUSTIFY or say that I AM SUCH A VICTIM...so PLEASE dont take this that way.
I'm simply talking about how I was sincere in my efforts to repair things. I and We where taking any and all suggestions made by friends, counselors and books.

Apparently, this is a LONGER process than I could even imagine. I want to be a better husband to her, I want to consider her and really love her. I want to empathize that she has lived with an addict all her life, maybe not using the whole time, but an addict with really broken thinking.
I really believe that nothing is too far gone and if I am willing to do hard things, then good things can happen.
I am finding out more about myself and how to recover from broken thinking and compulsive actions.

I spent a lot of time in shame, guilt and self loathing...I have people telling me I should be past that part and I should start holding my head up and then I start to imagine what my wife has gone through and I feel loads of hurt for her and shame for what I have done. I REALLY want to find a balance of feeling her hurt and pain without going into the self loathing victim role...this is really hard for me to do, but I'm willing to try.

As far as filling in on the family structure...we have 2 teenage boys that know everything that has happened...I have been an open book to them. My 16 year old is in recovery also from drugs and has more clean time than me. I am self employed as an IT consultant, have a home office with 4 employees. My wife has been a HUGE supporter of the business and a huge mental and emotional support for me with the business.

I will continue to work on myself
I will continue to work on having empathy for my wife
I will leave my wife alone
I will keep NC with the AP

I know that the answer to a better way to live and a better way to live with others is through the NA step work and that is what is in front of me today.

I told my wife that I can only ask my loving and caring God to help her heal, other than that, I dont trust myself to use words with her for fear of creating more damage.

Divorce would be easier than recovery, but I really believe that there is an opportunity for me to change and for me and my wife to experience the kind of love that people really want.
If she decides she is done, then she is done...I am powerless over that.
saaben900


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> That was helpful.
> Thanks
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? Because it's not what you want to hear? Perhaps it was harshly worded but the fact is that the ow you're obsessing over and have on a pedestal is nothing more then a piece of trash of low moral character that spread her legs for her friends husband. Looking at it like that might help you get her off the pedestal. That and your ap hasn't had to deal with your history, so if she had your life with her likely wouldn't be unicorns and rainbows; right now your time with her is a warm little bubble and real life is left for your wife. If you think she's such a great deal leave your wife and see how that goes. Otherwise get her off the pedestal and see her for the piece of trash she is in addition to owning your own sh!t. That might help your obsession.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm glad you stuck around. You won't get much coddling, but you will get solid honest perspectives and advice. Isn't that part of recovery in NA or AA? We aren't here to enable.

One of the factors for a betrayed spouse to use in decided weather to reconcile or divorce is active addiction. You have compound issues that need to be addressed and dealt with.

You consider the OW one of your drugs of choice from your description. That in itself is unsettling and can't make your wife feel as if reconciliation isn't a good idea or worth the work for her. Yes divorce is an easier option in almost every case so if she hasn't taken the easy way out, you may have something to save.

You really need to lay a foundation of basic trust at the moment. You need to get some clean time under your belt and deal with your diseases. If you aren't showing that you have those well in hand and won't use them as a crutch when things get hard (because they will). You need new tools for coping. You have to know that. This OW was not anything but another destructive side effect of these issues you haven't gotten control of yet.

Your issues are not just about fidelity or a healthy marriage. If you are aware of your addictions and working on them that is a great step forward. Owning the damage that was done and making amends is another. Part of owning the damage that was done is putting safeguards in place so this doesn't happen again. This can't be your "go to move". Until you have that worked out you aren't offering your wife enough incentive to stay and work it out. Just my .02 my experience of friends and loved ones who were new to recovery was that there is a period of time where they are (and need to be)very self centered. That is really difficult for those left in the wreckage of their disease.

Many here won't sugar coat the advice given to make it go down easier. Don't write that advice off because it isn't what you want to hear. I'm glad you are still reading. Hopefully reading some of the other stories here can give you insight into what your wife is feeling.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah... I'm glad you stuck around as well OP.

This 'process' is said to take 2-5 years to work through.
I believe some relationships never heal enough to ever become happy & healthy but some do..... Look for their stories...read how they achieved what many can't/won't.

Are you still doing MC or IC?

What does say she wants from you and life in general?


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

2-5 years...huh...I really dont think either of us really heard that before...we where thinking more like a year.

We are not doing MC anymore...we are both still doing IC.

We have been texting a little bit more every few days...typically kid stuff. Last night she went to my brothers 50 bday party, I had to chair an NA meeting so I didnt go to the party.
Of course there were tons of memories, family pictures and such...she texted me some pictures from the party.
I felt bad for her because I'm sure she felt a ton of emotion being there and seeing fingerprints of our life together as well as being around my family.

At this point, I'm not sure when it's appropriate to communicate with her. I'm afraid to come at her with apologies or words of affirmation and make her feel awkward. I'm afraid if I dont say something, that she will take it as me distancing myself with no interest in her.

She has told me she wants someone to love her deeply, make her feel secure and happy. She also told me that she does not know if she can ever forgive me.

So with that being said, I thought it best to not suggest anything to do with getting together even to talk.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> At this point, I'm not sure when it's appropriate to communicate with her. I'm afraid to come at her with apologies or words of affirmation and make her feel awkward. I'm afraid if I dont say something, that she will take it as me distancing myself with no interest in her.
> 
> She has told me she wants someone to love her deeply, make her feel secure and happy. She also told me that she does not know if she can ever forgive me.
> 
> So with that being said, I thought it best to not suggest anything to do with getting together even to talk.


If there is already texting between you, even if it's mostly about your kids, there's nothing wrong with adding a sincere apology in there. It's generally accepted that "you cannot apologize too often" when it comes to infidelity. You can apologize badly - such as, "I'm sorry IF I hurt you." (There's no IF about it.) I again refer you to the book I suggested by Linda MacDonald for specifics about this.

And you shouldn't even think of asking for forgiveness now - there may come a time months from now, if you are communicating on a deeper level and if you have been helpful to her healing process. You could even let her know that you "get" that you don't expect a close temporal connection between your apologies and her forgiveness - "I'm so sorry for what I did, and I understand why you don't know if you could ever forgive me." 

And you're right about your not suggesting anything about getting together to talk - the ball is in HER court. She didn't get to decide if you were going to have an affair. Now you don't get to decide how a reconciliation process - if any - unfolds, SHE does.

But do say something about the elephant in the room as long as you're communicating. Nothing wrong with apologizing, unless she specifically tells you not to. And yes, healing from the trauma and grief of infidelity is a long term process that generally takes from 2 to 5 years.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Start by asking her what actions you can take to make her feel loved and safe and what level of contact she wants. Don't say it in a way that pressures her. You are communicating so it isn't a violation to ask what you can do to help her heal from this since you did the harm.

Ask her if she is up for another go at MC, if your last counselor didn't help find another.

You need to do more than sit passively waiting for this to get better. Recovery takes work, so does reconciliation and it will get easier but working on making it better doesn't have a timetable or really end.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

saaben900 said:


> Ummm...wow. Does anyone have any experience with the disease of addiction? Or the issues of OCD?
> Infidelity seems to be treated worse than murder.
> I posted here looking for help. I have the willingness to do recovery and not damage more people in my life.
> U all respond line I'm running around with an uzi haphazardly and purposely doing this stuff.
> ...


Nice attitude. That doesn't show much "fellow feel" for your wife.

And yes, people on TAM have dealt with addictions, some people have been cheaters, some cheated on.

You seem to perhaps have failed to grasp what this part of TAM is for. The tagline of this sub-forum is:


> *Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.*


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Start very simply when reestablishing contact. As others have said, give a sincere apology but keep it short and simple. You don't want to overwhelm her or give her too much to try and process. Tell her, "I don't expect to to respond at this time. I just want you to know...Let me know if/when you are ready to talk."


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

me and my wife had some texting convo last night. Mostly around our separate recovery processes. I did offer an apology, owning and acknowledging my wrongs.

I continue to come back around to the whole empathy thing...I don't think I have really had real empathy for her...it's weird.

I will say this...a couple weeks ago in a Just for Today NA discussion meeting, the topic was Empathy. 
Going into this topic, I thought to myself...Eh, I got the empathy thing...I'm a master at it....WOW, was I surprised at myself by the end of the meeting.
After listening to other addicts share about their experience with empathy for 1.5 hours...I had a gut wrenching experience that I actually know so very little about empathy to my wife. I seem to have "conditional" empathy...my thinking is so diseased.

My text convo with my wife was only about our process in recovery in an individual sense and I offered words to support her process. There was no talk about relationship stuff, which is fine...I would prefer to take this slow as I'm sure she does also.
So, as much as I would love to move back...my gut feeling is that it's really ok to be separated and work recovery. I really feel like my God has made me very settled with not being home.

She did offer me a kissy faced smiley at the end...which I was blown away by...she really is amazing.

I do have a question that maybe BS's can help with. Her birthday is Wednesday, she will be 42. Today is the day that the "affair" started 2 years ago...it was at her 40th bday party.

So along with the hurt and pain of this marking 2 years ago, I would like to get her something for her birthday...just not sure what is appropriate. I typically send her flowers to her work...thought that may be a bit emotionally overwhelming.
My other thought was that she does have her pistol permit and has wanted a gun...I was going to get her one...I know I'm leaving myself wide open for comments on that one.
Then I thought like an edible arrangements basket.
Idk...any thoughts?

Also, since this is the day 2 years ago when things started...is there any sense in me offering my support, apologies and direct acknowledgement of the "day"?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I don't envy you the upcoming Birthday with attached baggage...

So NO on the gun (do I really need to say more).

Flowers would be OK, I'd also find a card that is appropriate and write something personal about what you have put her through and that you want her to be happy. Don't insert yourself other than to acknowledge all you have done to hurt her. 

No Edible Arrangements! Just a thing I think is tacky (I know lots of people love them but how much chocolate covered fruit can you eat?)

How about booking a spa day for her? Massage, facial, manicure and pedicure.


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

I sent flowers to her work...she will get them tomorrow.

This is what I put on the card...
Have a great and happy birthday! You deserve happiness, wholeness and a truly fulfilled future. 

I want to leave her a card at home also...don't know if that is overboard.

My heart is broken for her...it seems over these past days my gut is wrenched around the clock for her.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

verpin zal said:


> Years later I banged my friend's girlfriend, for a year and a half.


I hope that at least you did not let the dude marry this woman. I was OM once too, but man doing it with a friend's girlfriend, I have always wondered in this situatuions how day after day you see the person in the ayes and keep making him fool.

Don't take me wrong, is a sincere question, I don't feel myself a better human, even if the BS in my case was someone I never knew it does not make it any better.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> That was helpful.
> Thanks
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL

sarcasm has always been my weakness, even in death serious situations, if someone make a sarcastic comment in the right moment I explode in laughter.

seriously man, WS are many times bashed here becuase when they come for fist time most of them don't understand the impact and the desvastation of their actions. for you maybe was a mistake and you wan to to forget everything about it, and you don't understand why if it is over the BS don't let it go.

what you should realize is that you destroyed your partner in ways any other human being has done before:

- self steem
- trust
- world vision
- family union

you killed the person she loved and replaced it with the new you a person capable of betrayal, a person capable of seeing her in the face and lie, so you are not the same person she loved and now she wonders if that person ever existed or if she has been a fool all your time together.

I advise you to read "EI"and "B1" threads, EI was a WS like yourself who like you did realize the consequences of her actions and she defended herself and minimized the extend of her betrayal in the beginning, they are now in reconcilation process, but I want you to read their fists threads to see how all the situation evolved, that said I hope you can redeem yourself, but it will not be easy, is much more easy to begin a new realtionship than heal the soul of the perosn you hurt, in the other hand the few cases of true reconcilation I know seems to have improved their marriage and their bond much greater than before and they don't regret the path the took at all.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> A
> She initiated, I showed up. And I continued to show up. I did it. Yes, see I owned it and have owned it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You may have owned it, but you've done nothing to fix it. My advice would be to let your wife go. She is entitled to a life with someone who puts her first and you could probably use the time to work on yourself. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for on here, but you initiated on TAM and we showed up.


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## saaben900 (Nov 30, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> You may have owned it, but you've done nothing to fix it. My advice would be to let your wife go. She is entitled to a life with someone who puts her first and you could probably use the time to work on yourself. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for on here, but you initiated on TAM and we showed up.


I am totally not saying this in a d!ck'ish way...and I'm not saying this to make it all about me...I'm just going to put out there the things I have done since disclosure...I really have thought I have been doing the right stuff.

Disclosure in Jan 2013.
moved out of the house
3 weeks out, I attended a weekend intensive workshop for sexual addiction and infidelity recovery
2 weeks later me and my wife attended a weekend intensive couples counseling for infidelity recovery
I established other men in my life for support that have been in recovery for some time
Attended NA meetings 3 times a week
Moved back in the house as she allowed 6 weeks after disclosure
Severed my social circle so I can focus on our recovery
Went to IC weekly
Went to MC weekly
Me and my wife attempted to do recovery workbooks together
Met regularly with our church pastor
Through this process I owned what I did...and me and my wife where doing what we thought was the right stuff.
This was over the course of 9 months.

I wanted to devote my life to marriage recovery, my addiction recovery, my kids and my job. Everything else went on hold.

After reading what people have said here, I can really REALLY see that there are pieces of this process I have been missing and I am willing and open to take the suggestions.
I have begun to search my heart and LEARN what empathy towards my wife really is...and I have begun to slowly put it into action.

I believe people can be redemeemed and changed if they want it bad enough...I want this bad enough to keep coming back here, posting and willing to take suggestions...
I will OWN this, I have OWNED it and I will willingly continue to OWN it.
I will give my wife the space she needs...she can decide to keep me or move on...but I do believe that all of these efforts will either help serve this relationship or another one.

At the end of 9 months, we are both still struggling, and I know that there is TONS that I still need to work on with myself.
I wont try to hold her hostage or manipulate her, I want her to heal and build her own confidence to make solid decisions for herself.

So I keep showing up here...I believe things can change.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

manticore said:


> I hope that at least you did not let the dude marry this woman. I was OM once too, but man doing it with a friend's girlfriend, I have always wondered in this situatuions how day after day you see the person in the ayes and keep making him fool.
> 
> Don't take me wrong, is a sincere question, I don't feel myself a better human, even if the BS in my case was someone I never knew it does not make it any better.


The woman was one of those "I don't believe in marriage" kind of gals.

As for looking him in the eye, that's a subject i'm not overly proud of, which one's details i don't wish to disclose at this time. My fellow TAM members need not have any further triggers.

Maybe one day, if i decide to post my story.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

saaben900 said:


> So I keep showing up here...I believe things can change.


of course they can, like a say before it wil be not easy, and it will be not pleasant, your wife is hurting bad, even is sometimes it looks like that is not the case she have scars that you will see when you less expect them.

the reason people also pressure you is that if you are not ready to accept all the blame for what you did in the end you will have a fake reconcilation ( I am not saying that you are not taking responasability, just clarifying why people sometimes tend to react if they detect the WS is not sincere in his/her intentions), believe me those who have experimented fake reconcilations sometimes say that they are more hurting by it and the lies than the affair.

you see this obsession of yours with AP, we konow it as dopamine fog and we know it could take many months to finally dissapear, but the way you wrote about your circumstances and your whole situation can be interpreted as if you are staying with your wife because is the right thing to do, and not because you love her (of course I want to believe you love her).

What you did is a known as double betrayal, the BS lost at the same time two persons dear to him/her, he/she wonders how could they did this to me?, did they know I loved both of them?, how could they betray me?, did they get excited knewing they were back stabing me?, we want to help you, this is a support froum, but you have to understand that many people here is more emphatic with your wife and her pain, and they are trying to see what your real intentions are.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

as an adivise please read the first 3 pages of this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

It will help you to see some of the reactions your wife could experiment during this process.

also, in this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

hang out most of the couples that have or are trying to reconcile, so many times they will have good adivises in books and excercises to get close again to your wife.

Don't take me wrong, I am not telling you to stop your thread and go there, this is also important to check the advances you are doing little by little in the process of reconcilation, a journal you will be able to check in the future and analize yourself to see really what had changed since you started to improve your marriage.


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