# Too much love now none at all…..



## Oclead (Dec 21, 2021)

I over love. My husband under loves. And we have problems.
Questions first then background.
Question 1: I need my husband to show me love/desire. Is this something he can learn to do? How? I believe he wants to but nothing is natural. Rather he approaches it like a checklist item with reminders in his phone.
Question 2: How can I feel loved if that’s his style and the best he can offer?

Background:
When my husband and I first met it was easy. I loved big and he was used to being loved big. We’ve had intimacy issues since the beginning. He said it was a low sex drive but I was sexually confident and happy to love big and therefore do what I needed to set up the right romantic situations for him. But no situation was right for him and overtime after many rejections and excuses, some very hurtful, my confidence waned……but I was still happy to love big and he was still happy to be loved big.
Loving big for me means many things; participating in things my husband enjoys (weekly pool for example) and finding joy in the situation making friends there and cheering him on even though pool isn’t my thing, daily dinners with special ingredients to support his diets or physical goals, planning big romantic trips, planning mini-mid week lunch dates, finding the car of his dreams and financially making it happen, etc. These are things I truly enjoying doing. I’m also fairly type A and someone who gets things done.
The issues from over loving became apparent when my daughter was born. I developed life threating complications and had an emergency c-section. Despite wanting a family my husband found the work of a newborn emotionally challenging so I emotionally cheered him on and did all the work for our family, relationship, and home. And when I say did it all that includes replacing the dishwasher only days after we had returned from the hospital with stiches from hip bone to hip bone. Looking back on how WE allowed that to happen is absurd. I should have been more vocal and made him help; he should have been more supportive and helped.
My daughter had health complications as well and for the first few years of her life I continued to do it all. Child rearing, housework, maintenance, emotional support/cheerleader for my husband and our relationship, and worked a full time job. I still tried for sexually intimacy as it’s one of the few areas I need to feel loved but was shot down even more than before. Sex went from maybe once a month (pre pregnancy) to not at all even after my daughter was born. Emotionally I was handling the stress however internally it was killing me. My health turn a more drastic turn when my daughter was almost 4. And I needed my husband…..but of course I never expected him to love me, so when I needed him to love me he wasn’t there nor did he know what love entailed.
I’m a good communicator and immediately asked my husband for help. Help making dinner when I was too ill, to listen to what the docs were telling me, to come to an appointment with me, to help with my daughter, to be a shoulder to cry on, to grocery shop, help with laundry, or clean. But my husband was stubborn and unfortunately selfish and didn’t understand why the parameters of our relationship were changing. He didn’t do those things. And instead made excuses why he couldn’t help or just forgot about ever being there for me. We’ve been in counseling and he’s now helping around the house and is a very loving father. But our relationship is non-existent. Any perceived emotional intimacy went out the window as I struggled with my health alone and had no one to support me with the house, life, or anything for that matter. My husband is not a bad man at all. But rather an ill equipped man. Someone who was spoiled without any real responsibility and has to learn. But learning at 40 years old is hard. And my patience is more than spent after years trying so hard and meeting only pushback and defensiveness for so long.
I don’t want a divorce. But I also need love in my life. He’s trying to put effort into our relationship. But has no idea what to do and if I’m not giving him daily reminders or detailed instructions he does nothing. And quite frankly it’s hard to feel loved when you have to say “give me a hug today” and he puts it on his calendar to give me a hug at 8:00. Now of course I can hug him too and I do but I’m looking for the hug when I’ve had a hard day or the unexpected hug or the hug when something hard happens. I’m looking to be loved/seen/desired. As his post mentions he’s been trying to initiate touch. But only does so for maybe a few days then stops then I give him a gentle reminder he argues with me my anger increases and then only after fighting does he try again and then how can I feel loved if I have to beg for love. Now I’ve tried loving him big again to see if now that he’s more aware he can love me back but none my emotional or physical needs are ever met so here I am…….can he learn to genuinely love/desire me? Can I learn to accept this love for what it is? Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So you're the partner who loves "big" and your husband is clueless as to what love is; or, at the very least he doesn't seem attuned to what type of love you need.

In my neck of the woods, we view that as one partner doing all the heavy lifting, while the other one is just along for the ride. Whatever term you wish to call it is up to you ... enabling might be a good fit.

Me? I couldn't live with someone like this. No, I don't think your husband can be "taught" how to love or desire you. He either does or he doesn't. It sounds like he's not particularly motivated no matter how much you try to steer him in the right direction.

Can you learn to accept him as he is? I dunno ... Do you?


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## Oclead (Dec 21, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> So you're the partner who loves "big" and your husband is clueless as to what love is; or, at the very least he doesn't seem attuned to what type of love you need.
> 
> In my neck of the woods, we view that as one partner doing all the heavy lifting, while the other one is just along for the ride. Whatever term you wish to call it is up to you ... enabling might be a good fit.
> 
> ...


Yes, I’ve done the heavy lifting for sure. And if not for the progress he’s made learning to contribute to the house heavy lifting I would have left by now. But I’ve seen the progress and effort in other areas and want to believe it will happen in the love/desire arena with the right help. But what that right help is I’m unsure. And no I don’t accept it today. But I also know life isn’t perfect and there are other things that are good. So I’m trying my best to emotionally hang on longer until I know we’ve exhausted all options and given this the best we can.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Oclead said:


> I’m looking to be loved/seen/desired. As his post mentions *he’s been trying to initiate touch. But only does so for maybe a few days then stops* then I give him a gentle reminder he argues with me my anger increases and then only after fighting does he try again and then how can I feel loved if I have to beg for love. Now I’ve tried loving him big again to see if now that he’s more aware he can love me back but *none my emotional or physical needs are ever met.*


Sounds like a ridiculous amount of effort for a basic hug. I remember telling a poster years ago that their marriage sounded like someone dragging a dead whale across the sand.

Keep trying. Again, in all honesty, I don't think you're getting a good return on your investment. JMO


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Honestly, any so-called 'man' who watches his still-stitched-from-Cesarean-Sectioned wife install a dishwasher isn't worth the powder to blow him up.

I can't believe how you've been jumping around like a trained seal, desperately doing all the work while Mr. Wonderful has done NOTHING.

Jeez, does he lay golden eggs? Is he inline to inherit millions? I can't think of *ONE* good reason to expend_ this_ amount of long-term effort or time into someone like this. I don't get it.

I just don't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Could he be autistic?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

This is who he is. He's likely done all he’s willing to do. You’ll have to decide if that’s good enough to stay.


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## Oclead (Dec 21, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Honestly, any so-called 'man' who watches his still-stitched-from-Cesarean-Sectioned wife install a dishwasher isn't worth the powder to blow him up.
> 
> I can't believe how you've been jumping around like a trained seal, desperately doing all the work while Mr. Wonderful has done NOTHING.
> 
> ...


Conveying all aspects of a relationship in a single post is obviously hard…..I’m not a trained seal but rather someone who truly loves giving to others and it’s paid off in dividends in other aspects of my life. My husband was wildly immature. We both recognize that but I also should have had more defined boundaries early on and not given to the ends of my ability. We are growing and learning and hoping to salvage things as there are other aspects of life where we work well together (aligned financial thoughts/behaviors, family and religious beliefs, shared thoughts on travel and retirement). Also, I’ve seen the way he’s adapted to rescued animals we’ve taken into our home and he is a truly attentive father. He had to learn how to do those things and was able to. I just don’t know why figuring out how to show me love/be connected is not occurring as well. And I’m not shut off to the possibility that it’s just not there or there is something I’m doing to hinder it. Just hoping others may have been in a similar situation with experience to share. Thanks!


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Is he loving and helpful and caring and normal to people outside his marriage? Is he the great guy that everyone can call on? Can he cheer a co-worker or female friend on, and know exactly what to do?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

The picture I get in my head after reading all your excuses is that of a dog panting and wagging its tail asking her owner to throw the stick again: throw it, please, throw it again please, just throw it so that I can pick it up again.

You've been teaching your pathetic husband how to treat you by being a doormat. He knows that he doesn't have to do a thing, you will do it, so no problem. You are not big on love, you are big on being meek and subservient to him.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Your husband crosses the line of what he expects you to do without him lending a hand. I wouldn't even let my exs carry the shopping.

However, don't try to change him. If you have accepted him for who he is, he should be inspired to change for you, to make you happy. If he no longer feels that acceptance, he's only going through the paces to make you happy but his desire is sapped.

But you have another issue in terms of love language and affection, my ex wanted me for instance, to reply to her texts within the hour. Did I ever do it naturally? No! It was a discipline, it sucked but I did it anyway because you know, love. If that is not enough for you, it may never be enough for you.

It sure wasn't enough for my ex 2 years after we had a similar fight about love language differences. We tried, we truly did, but I wasn't enough for her.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Oclead said:


> My husband was wildly immature.


So you married him anyway. Then he became your project. Okay. Got it.



Oclead said:


> We are growing and learning and hoping to salvage things ...I just don’t know why figuring out how to show me love/be connected is not occurring as well.


Sounds more like a lab rat you're trying to train. He's immature, he doesn't seem to have a sex drive, and he's clueless as to the ways you desire affection and affrmation.

Yeah, right. Sorry. But I think your experiment is a fail. I mean, c'mon .... after all this time the dude behaves like he's clueless. Maybe he has Asperger's. Maybe he's autistic. Or maybe - just maybe - he's an asexual douche bag who isn't interested in sex.

ETA: Why don't you just leave him the hell alone and let him be who he is?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Here we go, found it:






Does this describe your relationship? Get out now. As for your supposed dismissive partner, he's like that for a reason. 
I sure as well was with all the nagging and blabbering about not being good enough.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

I've said this countless times here on TAM.

Once you know the nature of something (or someone) don't be surprised when it acts in character. 

He's shown you from the beginning who he is and what he's capable of, and you're wondering if he can change?

He can't give you what he doesn't have.

Who wants the hug when they're told to do so. I get it. Nothing will EVER change. Either put up with who he is and accept it or leave.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I too think he needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist to find out if he is on the spectrum of some brain chemical disorder. But don't get your hopes up because that's not going to change him. He doesn't know what love is. I'm trying to imagine what attracted you to him to begin with. I mean you might as well be married to a cardboard cutout. He's not supportive and he's not loving and he doesn't help you. You're his mother. 

You already said you don't want a divorce, so other than getting an explanation for it by having him evaluated if that would give you any comfort, I don't know what to tell you except that a vivacious person like you should not be wasting your life without a true companion.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Here we go, found it:


Most likely this dynamic. Maybe somewhere on the autism spectrum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Putting it on his calendar may not be romantic & you feel like an obligation but he's really trying here. Instead of resenting his methodology & the fact that he doesn't love the way you do, be grateful for the effort. It's more than many people would do. 

I had a similar experience. My husband is an introvert who struggles to express himself. When I was recently hospitalized he wasn't going to be there for me the way I needed or thought I did. He did what he could & I made the best of it. Friends brought dinners & he tried but I had to fend for myself at breakfast & we had a fight over him doing my laundry. I couldn't walk to the basement or carry things but was running out of underwear. Again, he did what he could & even though it was far less than what I would have done for him, the effort showed love. 

Try to see this from that perspective. 

For the most part if you are specific you should get what you ask for but it may never become second nature to him. It's a trivial example but I used to hate the way my husband wrote cards. He'd buy a card & sign his name. That was it. No date, no dear D0nni, no Love him. Just his name. Made me crazy. So I spelled it out how to write a card. Now I get proper cards & sometimes they even have little messages like I love you. So yes, small change in possible but your husband will never be capable of the "big love" you seek & give. Most people are not. So think long & hard before you give up on a man who making the effort by creating reminders to engage in the behavior you seek. That effort is worth a lot, IMO.


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## GaLaxya (Sep 26, 2021)

You don't love big, you are your partners mother.
You just don't see it .

Let me help you see! No offence. I am not attacking you. Just my impression.

You talk about your relationship as if he is a little boy you have to take care of.
You take care of him, you cook his food specific to his diet plan, you follow hin in his free time to cheer him although you are not interested in his hobbies yourself.

Don't you think this comes of as fake somehow?

You throw your one personality completly over board to please him.

That isn't sexy even for me as a woman. I wouldn't feel sexy doing this for and with my husband.

You appear extremly dependend and desperate, which I bet is the root of your husband withdrawing.

I just recently read that main reason men stop being attracted in theirbwive is because the wife becomes sone sort of mother to them.

If you look for 'signs my husband isn't attracted to me' you will see that a lot of advices given are:

STOP BEING HIS MOTHER!

When you were dating were you taking care of him on the date or did you just have a good time together?

Did you apply for being his personal care taker when you were dating or were you a woman who had something to say about her own live?

He clearly didn't meet you and fall in love with you while you were washing his dirty underpants and preparing food based on his recent diet requirements.

I assume you had your own life.

Or are you one of those women that only exists waiting to find some one to mate with and then completely puts her focus on maintaining her relationship?

Stop doing so much for your relationship and your husband. Focus on yourself, be somebody and you'll be more attractive to any man.
Maybe you'll find a new one.

And if you didn't already lost your husband it is very likely your husband will get back to be interessted in you sexually.
At least according to people who tried this.

I mean a bit care of each other here and there, but not to the extend you do it and it should be something both sodes do every now and then, but not always and all the time.

For example if he asks you where his socks or clothings are, tell him to look on his own.

Give him space and don't organise his live and dont organise your live around what he is doing.

It also seems and must feel fske even to him, as you seem just to follow him to his spprt events to cheer him and make him think you are such a good wify.


That is called manipulation. Everything you are writting is actually manipulation what you are doing.
You do everything in prder to get something.
In your mind it might be the way all people think and behave, but it isn't.

Even your example with his activities to which you follow him. He is a grown up man and even if he would be 12 years old mama doesn't have to attend every single sports event.
Why should the wife of a grown up man has to do it then???

Even if he would want you to come, which would be really childish, ypur relationship wouldn't be 'azthentic' and 'honest' if you do so although you are not interessted in the nature of his hobbies.

You could go once a yearnor every six month. This would be a compromise between both of you.

But the question is, if he even bother you being around. Especially after he already withdrew from you.

It sounds like he doesn't, but you keep following him.

Hm... creepy... 

Don't you think? 

Eveything you do seem so exegerrated. You are too nice honey! Too nice.
Just stop it. Being too nice is and always the nice, good and caring girl is some sort of egoism.

Stop always wanting to be loved.

Try it one week. It is a trial. Do the complete oposit.

Dln't cook food for him. Pay less attention to him. But without being or looking pi***d. Enjoy it.
Just wash your and your babys clothes.

If he comes home after work and asks for food point at the kitchen and proceed doing your own stuff.

He has two hands he can cook his own food and wash his clothes. If he ask you how to do it, tell him he can google it and find out and go away.

Find your own hobbies and enjpy people cheering at you.

This is an exercise for you. Not for him!

You can only change and not make him change.

Good luck!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Has he been tested for autism or any personality disorder?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If you aren’t a good match - and you are left unhappy and unsatisfied - why don’t you divorce him?

Do you work? Can you support yourself?
How much does your husband work and earn?

Life is too short - divorce if you are unhappy.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

D0nnivain said:


> Putting it on his calendar may not be romantic & you feel like an obligation but he's really trying here. Instead of resenting his methodology & the fact that he doesn't love the way you do, be grateful for the effort. It's more than many people would do.
> 
> I had a similar experience. My husband is an introvert who struggles to express himself. When I was recently hospitalized he wasn't going to be there for me the way I needed or thought I did. He did what he could & I made the best of it. Friends brought dinners & he tried but I had to fend for myself at breakfast & we had a fight over him doing my laundry. I couldn't walk to the basement or carry things but was running out of underwear. Again, he did what he could & even though it was far less than what I would have done for him, the effort showed love.
> 
> ...



Well this brings back memories, ex also complained I didn't write on my cards, ignoring the fact that I can spend up to an hour sometimes even more and visit different shops until I find the perfect card that suits her and expresses how I feel perfectly. But she never saw that, just saw a card without my handwriting and called it no effort. Of course it pissed me off. It was the compilation of little things like that which cost us our relationship. Well, at least you learned to appreciate his efforts. 

But is effort enough?

@Oclead 

That's what you have to decide. It's ok to realise it isn't, it's simple incompatibility. Also what is his side of the story behind his neglect when you had your child? 

As for affection, my ex also wanted more kisses, while it wasn't my primary love language. I gave it to her whenever she asked, but only naturally gave it to her during cuddles. I never liked it routine, (same with ILUs) or when it's expected either. But that wasn't enough and she considered it begging for kisses. Your circumstances are different sure, but the way you write brings back a sh-t ton of memories of my ex, as you both give but need alot of love. You need to decide ASAP because after a while one of you is going to get sick of either not feeling loved or not feeling appreciated, or both at the same time like in my case. 

And if you do choose to accept it, don't expect changes or resent him for not changing for you. If you can't accept him without resentment then let go, dont hang onto hope for change, there simply is no future for either of you like that. Your marriage can work but it would take work in identifying not just your attachment styles (the video I posted) but also what triggers it. Your nagging, smothering and mothering all contribute to his detachment. He has a lot of work as well but it takes two.


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## Oclead (Dec 21, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Could he be autistic?


We had explored this with one psychologist but he didn’t think my husband was. However, as I type this I can’t help but think it’s a real possibility.


RandomDude said:


> Here we go, found it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes! This is our dynamic for sure!!! And his upbringing is very clearly the reason why. This is the dynamic of his parents. And something he consciously wants to change but doesn’t seem to have the tools/ability to do so. Thanks for this link though. Interesting to hear her suggestions on how/if this dynamic can be changed to be successful.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oclead said:


> yes! This is our dynamic for sure!!! And his upbringing is very clearly the reason why. This is the dynamic of his parents. And something he consciously wants to change but doesn’t seem to have the tools/ability to do so. Thanks for this link though. Interesting to hear her suggestions on how/if this dynamic can be changed to be successful.


Same here, I learned my dismissiveness from my parents as well. It manifested in emotional shutdowns (what they call 'detachment') which I learned when I was 16. Now, I'm going to be straight with you, it's going to take ALOT of work if you both want to change this.

Thankfully this study has come to light in recent years and I'm sure therapists are aware of attachment theory and how both of you can work towards either:
1) Secure attachment styles
2) Learning each other's triggers and how to bring out the best of each other not the worst.

Number 1 changes a person, I don't like it, if a person changes naturally yay, but I prefer number 2. But they don't teach you that in therapy, it's something you have to work on with your husband.

I have a question, what does he do that makes you feel loved? Ask him that, and tell us his answer too.


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## Oclead (Dec 21, 2021)

GaLaxya said:


> You don't love big, you are your partners mother.
> You just don't see it .
> 
> Let me help you see! No offence. I am not attacking you. Just my impression.
> ...


Thank you for your feedback and message up front that this is coming from a place of suggestion and not to be offensive . My entire family is very over the top with loving. And it’s always been reciprocated. We go over the top to support each other and care for one another. So no part of this was unnatural or forced to me. My ex was over the top with love as well and we used to do simple gestures like putting toothpaste on each other’s toothbrush’s. It became a sort of playful loving game as to who could be thoughtful first. Now we didn’t stay together because we had different plans on having children but over the top loving has lead to successful relationships for me. So my husbands style is new territory and learning for me. And I recognize that our different upbringings mean we interpret my actions differently. I’ve told him I will no longer be his mother and stopped doing anything for him over a year ago. And he’s not mad about that. He’s neutral. But I miss being someone who loves and he does desire a relationship more like my parents than his. Funny thing too….I’m not a push over personality type at all. I’m actually quite dominate.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I don't know, my husband is an aspy, and he can be so focussed on something at times that he needs reminding that I'm here, but holy heck, nothing like this. Sometimes he'll be rushing to go somewhere and go to leave and I'll say "excuse me? forgotten something?" and he'll race back and give me a kiss goodbye. There is NO way in hades that he would let me install a dishwasher, ever, but certainly not with stitches from a recent C Section! Wtaf???


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

This is your husband, you cannot change him. The fact you are trying to change him will only create resentment from his side.

You need to either accept him for who he is or divorce him and find a different partner who will give you what you crave so much.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Oclead said:


> My entire family is *very over the top* with loving. ... ]*We go over the top* to support each other and care for one another. ... *Over the top loving *has lead to successful relationships for me. ...I’m actually quite *dominate*.


Wow. You sound a bit intense. I think you mean you are quite "dominant" rather than "dominate," But, yeah, you are. I can't understand why you are with your husband, who seems like a guy who is in need of a spine transplant. The redundancy of "over the top" is weird. You are treating your husband like he's a trained seal or a toddler. All this intensity strikes me as strange. Sure, people love intensely. But this poor slob sounds like he's more someone you want to convert to your over-the-top mantra.

Maybe if you tuned down all the intensity, he might actually be more forthcoming. As it is, it sounds like you wear the pants in the family and he basically is just along for the ride.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Can't be fixed. You'll have to find a different partner if you want/need love.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oclead said:


> Thank you for your feedback and message up front that this is coming from a place of suggestion and not to be offensive . My entire family is very over the top with loving. And it’s always been reciprocated. We go over the top to support each other and care for one another. So no part of this was unnatural or forced to me. *My ex was over the top with love as well and we used to do simple gestures like putting toothpaste on each other’s toothbrush’s. It became a sort of playful loving game as to who could be thoughtful first.* *Now we didn’t stay together because we had different plans on having children but over the top loving has lead to successful relationships for me.* So my husbands style is new territory and learning for me. And I recognize that our different upbringings mean we interpret my actions differently. I’ve told him I will no longer be his mother and stopped doing anything for him over a year ago. And he’s not mad about that. He’s neutral. But I miss being someone who loves and he does desire a relationship more like my parents than his. Funny thing too….I’m not a push over personality type at all. I’m actually quite dominate.


Stop trying to recreate your ex with your current partner. Just as you chose not to settle with your ex, you need to decide now what to do with your current partner.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Oclead said:


> Thank you for your feedback and message up front that this is coming from a place of suggestion and not to be offensive . My entire family is very over the top with loving. And it’s always been reciprocated. We go over the top to support each other and care for one another. So no part of this was unnatural or forced to me. My ex was over the top with love as well and we used to do simple gestures like putting toothpaste on each other’s toothbrush’s. It became a sort of playful loving game as to who could be thoughtful first. Now we didn’t stay together because we had different plans on having children but over the top loving has lead to successful relationships for me. So my husbands style is new territory and learning for me. And I recognize that our different upbringings mean we interpret my actions differently. I’ve told him I will no longer be his mother and stopped doing anything for him over a year ago. And he’s not mad about that. He’s neutral. But I miss being someone who loves and he does desire a relationship more like my parents than his. Funny thing too….I’m not a push over personality type at all. I’m actually quite dominate.


Are you sure things like the toothpaste thing weren't just him imitating your behavior? The man you describe now doesn't sound very connected to emotions at all.


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