# 'Outsourcing' parts of your marriage (?!)



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

> "Living separately or allowing your partner to sleep with other people could be the key to a successful marriage, psychologists have claimed.
> 
> They argue that “outsourcing” areas of marriage to other people could save relationships in the long term.
> 
> This is because people are expecting more from a partner than ever before. Couples are not only looking for a lover and a friend, but someone who also inspires them creatively and can help them achieve their long-term career and personal goals"


Why adultery could aid a happy marriage - Telegraph


Eh.......:scratchhead:..??

I know there are things like mistresses, polyamory, swinger lifestyle etc. but I did not know there was scientific research supporting those things _in pursuit of_ a happier marriage.


Anybody know about research and statistics in this area?


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Why adultery could aid a happy marriage - Telegraph
> 
> 
> Eh.......:scratchhead:..??
> ...


Often times I feel that if my wife was ok with 2 meaningless infidelities a year, or at least turned a blind eye, our marriage would be way better. I can't tell if our lacking sex life is the cause of our problems or the other way around. Either way, I think men are pre-disposed biologically to cheat. Women do it for emotional reasons (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas guys wanna do it cause it's in our nature.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

If outsourcing certain parts of a marriage could make my marriage more successful , then logically , I'd outsource the problematic parts , the hard work , and the rough times to a professional who could handle it.

I'd keep my wife, her cooking , the sex and all the other good parts.
_to myself._

Some men have no problem outsourcing their wife for sex with other men, while they stay at home , cook for her and do the dishes.
They have to clean up the mess and deal with the fallout after.

In production management practice , you don't outsource the easy part of the job , but the hard part.

Anything else doesn't sound logical to me, but hey,
That's just me.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Crazy. I skimmed through the article quickly, but I noted the author referred to sexless marriages.

So yeah, if there is not an emotional/physical bond in the, then I guess "outsourcing" this part makes sense. 

However, without that bond, it's not really much of a marriage is it?

Just another article with a faulty premise to fill up the internet with content..... my 2 cts.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

KookedFish said:


> Often times I feel that if my wife was ok with 2 meaningless infidelities a year, or at least turned a blind eye, our marriage would be way better. I can't tell if our lacking sex life is the cause of our problems or the other way around. Either way, I think men are pre-disposed biologically to cheat. Women do it for emotional reasons (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas guys wanna do it cause it's in our nature.


Consider yourself corrected. You may not know it but women in the 30 and under age range are cheating as much as men. Looks like cheating is in everyone's nature. 

The out sourcing thing sounds good from your point of view because you are certain that your wife will be at home waiting for you. She is more like you than you think. The emotional need to cheat sounds good. Too disturbing to consider that a sizable proportion of women may cheat because they are sexually bored. Many men are shocked that their low libido wife is fired up by someone new. 

Makes out sourcing less palatable when the little lady is wired the same way you are . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Marriage is a heartfelt, biologically physiological and psychological bond, so to speak, with both "good parts" and quite often "not-so good parts."

Wanting only those "good parts" for ourselves, while delegating the "not-so good parts" for strangers to is all too often just emblematic of one's "having his cake and eating it too!" A wife may love the financial security of a husband who earns ten million a year, but loathes the fact that he just ain't any good in the sack. And then courts a guy who can please her 24/7 in the sack, but absolutely lacks the financial or business accumen to earn 50 cents a week!

When I propose marriage, it is supposed to be for the "package" deal! And not solely for just the "good parts" as opposed to the bad! And I should suspect that their acceptance of such should be much the same way!*


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Consider yourself corrected. You may not know it but women in the 30 and under age range are cheating as much as men. Looks like cheating is in everyone's nature.


Interesting. Well, if that's the case then people should just open up about it instead of this made up BS about monogamous relationships and marriage. So basically you're saying that for most modern-day people, the idea of marriage is a lie, or a social construct to convince outsiders that marriage is still relevant in today's society? That men who cheat are "bad" and should be publicly chastised while women do the same thing?

I'm not angry at you. Just at the thought that society as a whole has promoted an idea for centuries that is based on false pretense.


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> Marriage is a heartfelt bond so to speak, with both "good parts" and "not-so good parts."
> 
> Wanting only those "good parts" for ourselves, while delegating the "not-so good parts" for strangers to is all too often just emblematic of one's "having his cake and eating it too!" A wife may love the financial security of a husband who earns ten million a year, but loathes the fact that he just ain't any good in the sack. And then courts a guy who can please her 24/7 in the sack, but absolutely lacks the financial or business accumen to earn 50 cents a week!
> 
> When I propose marriage, it is supposed to be for the "package" deal! And not solely for just the "good parts" as opposed to the bad! And I should suspect that their acceptance of such should be much the same way!


I can honestly say I love my wife despite her shortcomings, but it has grown to feel like an outdated construct to me. If what Catherine602 said is true, and all her suspicions about me cheating (though I haven't) is just a lopsided insecurity loop based on her own unrealized desires, then I feel like a total fool for getting married.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Why adultery could aid a happy marriage - Telegraph
> 
> 
> Eh.......:scratchhead:..??
> ...


I have plenty of personal experience in that area. I tend not to share because the righties come at me with a sledge of morality that is generally to boring to contemplate.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I outsource house cleaning. Does that count?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> If outsourcing certain parts of a marriage could make my marriage more successful , then logically , I'd outsource the problematic parts , the hard work , and the rough times to a professional who could handle it.
> 
> I'd keep my wife, her cooking , the sex and all the other good parts.
> _to myself._
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

KookedFish said:


> I can honestly say I love my wife despite her shortcomings, but it has grown to feel like an outdated construct to me. If what Catherine602 said is true, and all her suspicions about me cheating (though I haven't) is just a lopsided insecurity loop based on her own unrealized desires, then I feel like a total fool for getting married.


Kooked you are probably not ready for monogamy in a committed relationship yet. You also may have chosen your partner unwisely out of inexperience. 

No one lied to you. You made the choice and now you can chose to do the right thing. 

Now what are you going to do? If you made a mistake, stand up confront the issue strait on. 

Don't try and weasel your way out by humiliating and deceiving your wife. What kind of person would that make you?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

If only it were that simple....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If I had to turn to another woman to get some needs met, I might as well get all of them met there.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> If I had to turn to another woman to get some needs met, I might as well get all of them met there.


I would agree with you if the main need under discussion is connection, sexual and otherwise. I have no problem with augmenting in that area as a means of increase the jazz. But I will never satisfy my husband's desire for a certain (stupid) sense of humor like his GF does.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We outsource yard work and sometimes housecleaning. We outsource some meals to restaurants, and health issues to medical professionals. We can't be all and everything to our spouse all the time, obviously, and that applies to a wide variety of social and psychological areas. However, I'd only outsource sex in a sexless marriage that was otherwise worth preserving for any of a number of reasons. More likely, I'd want to replace a dysfunctional or unsatisfying relationship with one that was satisfying in the ways that matter to me - since no-one will be completely perfect, it would just be an incremental improvement. Now, for strictly entertainment reasons, we could outsource some sex even if that was highly satisfying in the relationship. That's where open relationships, polyamory, and swinging can play a role, even in the best of relationships - unless you are philosophically and physically wired for monogamy, of course. Given the high rates of cheating and consensual non-monogamy, many people aren't wired for monogamy.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Sort of like polygamy.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> I would agree with you if the main need under discussion is connection, sexual and otherwise. I have no problem with augmenting in that area as a means of increase the jazz. But I will never satisfy my husband's desire for a certain (stupid) sense of humor like his GF does.


To each his own, I suppose. We've firmly established that marriage doesn't mean much in my country, so we are now free to form pretty much any conceivable relationship(s) and call it "marriage". In twenty years, a guy will be able to legally marry a toaster oven, a garden gnome, and a Shetland pony at the same time.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> To each his own, I suppose. We've firmly established that marriage doesn't mean much in my country, so we are now free to form pretty much any conceivable relationship(s) and call it "marriage". In twenty years, a guy will be able to legally marry a toaster oven, a garden gnome, and a Shetland pony at the same time.


Interestingly enough, my husband and I are more committed than any number of people around us that we see dropping like flies. Imagine that. We have great kids who are happy knowing that their parents are very happy. They make fun of us for our dopey affection. This must be terrible for society. I must be a toaster oven.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Sort of like polygamy.


*Totally, Running Dog! 

From a man's perspective: Alice can cook real good but will nag your a$$ off; Betty cleans a fantasic house, but literally worries about everything; Clarice can absolutely hump your lights out, but does not get the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for being very hygienic; Donna looks like a beauty queen, but is totally afraid of affection or physical touch; etc.

And from a woman's perspective: Adam is just a nice, sexy, primordial, "six-pack ab'ed" hunk who is nice to be seen out around in public circles with, but just can't get it up; Bob is a CEO earning better than a 100 mil-a-year, but his second best quality is that he's a self-serving control freak; Charlie is an unimaginative, loutish dolt but is a horny satyr who seemingly has more sexual reserves than the Energizer Bunny; and Dennis cooks like Bobby Flay, but is a total spendthrift, etc.

Employing the practice of polygamy ~ you can literally have it all!*


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Now what are you going to do? If you made a mistake, stand up confront the issue strait on.
> 
> Don't try and weasel your way out by humiliating and deceiving your wife. What kind of person would that make you?


I don't know what to do, but I've tried hard and succeeded in not humiliating or deceiving my wife. She makes it very hard to leave when things are good, and easy to talk about leaving when things are bad. I'll go so far as to say neither of us were ready for marriage. For me it was about joining the family, not cause I was truly ready.


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> To each his own, I suppose. We've firmly established that marriage doesn't mean much in my country


I think that marriage will mean as much to the two people (or things I guess) as is established by the people in it. I don't think a country has the right to tell people what meaning marriage has. Does that make me a Conservative?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Why adultery could aid a happy marriage - Telegraph
> 
> 
> Eh.......:scratchhead:..??
> ...


I'm not surprised really. With so many men, and now women catching up, cheating on their spouses it would make sense that more justification would come on why its a good thing.......


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *
> From a man's perspective: Alice can cook real good but will nag your a$$ off; Betty cleans a fantasic house, but literally worries about everything; Clarice can absolutely hump your lights out, but does not get the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for being very hygienic; Donna looks like a beauty queen, but is totally afraid of affection or physical touch; etc.
> 
> And from a woman's perspective: Adam is just a nice, sexy, primordial, "six-pack ab'ed" hunk who is nice to be seen out around in public circles with, but just can't get it up; Bob is a CEO earning better than a 100 mil-a-year, but his second best quality is that he's a self-serving control freak; Charlie is an unimaginative, loutish dolt but is a horny satyr who seemingly has more sexual reserves than the Energizer Bunny; and Dennis cooks like Bobby Flay, but is a total spendthrift, etc.
> *


:rofl:


...It's Life, but not as we Want It...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm happy to outsource the menial tasks in life like cleaning etc, but I think I'll keep the good stuff in my marriage for myself. If I was happy to be with numerous people at once, I wouldn't have bothered getting married. If you want more than one person, why get married at all?


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## ericthesane (May 10, 2013)

I would happily outsource many of the things that my wife is very good at, and puts a lot of energy into, such as cleaning the house, doing launudry, cooking and going to the supermarket....

come to think of it, heck, I can do those things myself, in fact I would be happy to do most of it.

What I do not want to outsorce are the other things, that she is not putting any effort and energy into, such as the long, good conversation in the wee hours of the morning, eager and enthusiastic sex, and going out now and then, be it for a long bike ride, a live concert or visiting some off the map place, simply because we have not been there.

Then again, I guess that the first parts are not what the author had in mind.....


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What a STOOPID article.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Totally, Running Dog!
> 
> From a man's perspective: Alice can cook real good but will nag your a$$ off; Betty cleans a fantasic house, but literally worries about everything; Clarice can absolutely hump your lights out, but does not get the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for being very hygienic; Donna looks like a beauty queen, but is totally afraid of affection or physical touch; etc.
> 
> ...


Interestingly enough, none of these speak to love. That is the primary focus you will see in polyamorous discussions. The fact is not everyone needs love to be exclusive for it to be real and very strong.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> We've firmly established that marriage doesn't mean much in my country,


Where was this established?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

jaharthur said:


> Where was this established?


 He's from Tennessee. I let my prejudices' and imagination fill in the rest of what his beliefs are. Sort of ironic in my mind since "comfort women" I see as a polite Southern term that might describe 'outsourcing'. Less vulgar than hooker, wh0re, or prostitute.


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

This isn't "psychologists say,", as if a whole bunch of psychs around the world had come up with this brainfart of a concept. It seems to be one guy, Eli Finkel, pumping out a paper from his office at Northwestern. I think most of us instinctively 'feel' the wrongness in what he's saying. Why get married at all? What about kids? This is just an ivory tower solo jerk-off session (aka 'mental masturbation') by Dr. Finkel. My wife told me six years ago, after I told her in a calm but heartfelt manner that I would very much like to find a way back to intimacy, that I was free to see a prostitute if necessary. You think that made me jump with joy? These words entered my brain as I looked into the eyes of the woman I'd been with for 27 years at that point. I have never taken her up on that offer. I have stayed true to myself, to my dignity, and to being here as a father for my kids. Things are winding down now as far as that goes, and I can't wait to climb out of this hellhole. You married, Doc Finkel?


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Racer said:


> He's from Tennessee. I let my prejudices' and imagination fill in the rest of what his beliefs are.


I guess others do the same seeing that someone from Colorado is responding to someone from California. Geographical prejudices abound!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My opinions regarding mate selection are probably the same as that of 99.99999% of humans who have inhabited the earth and one shared by deer, cows, rats, squirrels, birds, bears, and practically every other creature on earth. My opinion conformed with the laws of every nation on earth up until 10 years ago and every state in the union until the past four or so years. I suppose if Liberals wanted to dispense with the laws of gravity, adherence to the laws of gravity would seem like backward, hillbilly logic, too.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> My opinions regarding mate selection are probably the same as that of 99.99999% of humans who have inhabited the earth and one shared by deer, cows, rats, squirrels, birds, bears, and practically every other creature on earth. My opinion conformed with the laws of every nation on earth up until 10 years ago and every state in the union until the past four or so years. I suppose if Liberals wanted to dispense with the laws of gravity, adherence to the laws of gravity would seem like backward, hillbilly logic, too.


If you think that nature is so unified, then you are badly misinformed. If you think even humanity has conformed to these prejudices behind closed doors, you are likewise badly misinformed.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> I guess others do the same seeing that someone from Colorado is responding to someone from California. Geographical prejudices abound!


If it softens it... all southern blood in my family tree.. So I did grow up knowing I’m not an ‘immigrant’; My family was conquered and assimilated into the US of A. Three times in fact (Revolutionary War, Civil War, and Territory). My Grandma made sure we knew this. And yes, there are geographical prejudices in the US as there are cultural differences. Not saying it's wrong... just saying it is and there's no reason to argue about it. I don’t believe though ‘gay marriage’ has much to do with ‘outsourcing’ in your marriage.

I did grow up with my grandparents essentially gossiping at large socials about adultery. Get adults drunk enough and they forget the kids are around as they "flap their gums"... Wasn't seen as adultery though. Hard to explain, but as near as I can tell mistresses and comfort girls were sort of a given because a 'wife' was more of a delicate flower and pious person and men were lustful and full of sin. It was just sort of there in the open like a 'boys will be boys' thing.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Hahahahahahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I know a few open relationship couples. Ironically, having an open relationship doesn't get rid of their jealousies, insecurities or trust issues. They enhance them from what I've been told. The swingers I know aren't all that happy either. They just settle, will do anything for the person they're with. I suggested an open relationship to my SO once, he flipped out on me. It's alright, I wasn't really interested, just wanted to know what he thought of them. One of the girls I know in an open relationship is quite happy, but her boyfriend is not. To each their own, for me and mine, I don't think an open relationship would help our relationship. I believe the opposite. 

I believe that psychologically, humans are possessive, jealous creatures, and we don't like to share. I remember the first time I picked up another child in front of my son when he was 11 months old. He screamed until I put the other child down. Open relationships are not natural, rather.. We've got to brainwash ourselves into thinking they are. *Shrugs* Just my take.

And kooked, you're one of those men who hasn't quite learned this, so I'll just lay it out for you.

Women are JUST. LIKE. MEN. From closing their eyes for the same reasons, to being visual. We're just judged for it, harshly. Nobody wants to be called a ****. :/ 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/02/the_truth_about_female_desire_its_base_animalistic_and_ravenous/


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The whole purpose of marriage is to dampen sexual desire outside of the institution. The benefit is the nuclear family. Societies that have this stability have out performed other structures. However, we have game changers:

1) BC
2) Internet, social media
3) Mobile phones
4) Porn
5) Vibrators
6) Mobility (cars)
7) Longevity
8) Gender equality in earnings, job status

So, marriage is naturally shaken by these things and open marriages are an attempt to cake eat.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> If you think that nature is so unified, then you are badly misinformed. If you think even humanity has conformed to these prejudices behind closed doors, you are likewise badly misinformed.


You're right. The human reproductive system works the way it does because I'm prejudiced. I can also take a casual look at my car and instantly know it's not a submarine.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> My opinions regarding mate selection are probably the same as that of 99.99999% of humans who have inhabited the earth and one shared by deer, cows, rats, squirrels, birds, bears, and practically every other creature on earth. My opinion conformed with the laws of every nation on earth up until 10 years ago and every state in the union until the past four or so years. I suppose if Liberals wanted to dispense with the laws of gravity, adherence to the laws of gravity would seem like backward, hillbilly logic, too.


'Geographical prejudices abound'? or am I not understanding the term...Louis Theroux is the interviewer I must think of with your post...


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> 1) BC


What's this?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

kipani said:


> Women are JUST. LIKE. MEN. From closing their eyes for the same reasons, to being visual. We're just judged for it, harshly. Nobody wants to be called a ****. :/
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2013/06/02/the_truth_about_female_desire_its_base_animalistic_and_ravenous/


I wonder about that, I read some sources stating that, but I do not see that around in my part of reality. I don't see many bad guys either.

Men really look much more simple in their desires on the mating front, and women more complex. 

These day's men are talked into guilt about not communicating, not taking their part in the household, not doing enough with the kids, not earning enough, not doing enough around the house, not being mr. bad guy enough, not being mr. doormat enough. The list goes on and on.

"Was will das Weib", what does the woman want, is really hidden territory for us.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> The whole purpose of marriage is to dampen sexual desire outside of the institution. The benefit is the nuclear family. Societies that have this stability have out performed other structures. However, we have game changers:
> 
> 1) BC
> 2) Internet, social media
> ...


BC?? 

Not what I think I hope 

I'm doomed it if does, and doomed if it isn't


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

In big cities you'll find a plethora of women who are between 30 and 50, unmarried and without kids (or with kids and divorced), employing a similar dating pattern of guys in the their 20s...one-night-stands, boy-toys, casual relationships, etc. I've also seen Small-town America, where the majority of women are married with 2 kids by 25. Different regions can have vastly different cultures in terms of sex and dating.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think BC is birth control??


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm not going to go into a lot of psychological testing to determine my thoughts on this. I look in my gut.

My gut tells me....for me...this is hogwash.

When my first marriage was going very poorly, I didn't think of going outside the marriage, I thought of fixing my marriage and if that didn't work...end it.

In my current marriage, when I think of a lover...I think of my wife. When I think of my best friend, I think of my wife. When I think of someone who inspires me, pushes me, motivates me, makes me laugh, I think of my wife.

Maybe we should just realize as a species, there are monogamous people and there are polygamous people. Neither is right or wrong, but different people are predisposed to one or another way to exist. It also doesn't mean someone predisposed to polygamy can't happily live in a long term monogamous relationship. Now someone predisposed to monogamy would probably struggle in a polygamous relationship.

And for everyone talking about "nature" blah blah. Nature is as diverse as humanity on this issue.

There are species that are more monogamous than humans who mate for life. How'd you like that, your spouse passes away or divorces and you never have sex again. Such as the albatross, wolves (yes the ALPHA male ONLY mates with the ALPHA female), swans, beavers, angelfish, bald eagles, prairie voles, shingleback skinks, barn owls, penguins and gibbons to name a few.

So when you talk nature, you're not only looking at one type of animal but many, from birds to primates to fish.

There are many biological positives to being polygamous, from a "spread your seed" stand point. But as nature points out, there's many biological positives to being monogamous, namely making sure your "seed" survives and is able to then find their "soul mate" LOL and continue your blood line.


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

Unsavory "BC" could-be's:

Body Crust
Bugs / Critters
Butt Calluses
Bad Car
Big Cankles
Buzz Cut
Blood Clots

I don't know, but all could honestly rank right up there at #1.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

very interesting. when in MC a few months back, regarding issues and specifically on the topic of sexlessness, the counselor said to my wife: "you might not care much about sex with your husband, but would you care much if he outsourced that?" wife in half tears just listening.

which i remember thinking at the time, and i should have asked, does she indeed care? a small part of me thinks my wife wouldnt care if I outsourced sex. I have a sexless thread elsewhere on here, but its an interesting thought. If you are LD or no drive, would you care if your spouse got thier jollies off else where? You shouldnt right? I mean lets be consistent. If you don't care about hockey and dont like going to games, do you care if your husband goes with someone else? Especially if your husband hates rap music, but goes to a rap concert with you. if you wont offer the same type of sacrafice, then you shouldnt care if he outsources it.

food for thought..


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

BostonBruins32 said:


> ... a small part of me thinks my wife wouldnt care if I outsourced sex. I have a sexless thread elsewhere on here, but its an interesting thought. If you are LD or no drive, would you care if your spouse got thier jollies off else where? You shouldnt right? ..


Go back to this... (and your wife’s tears at the thought of it)


kipani said:


> I believe that psychologically, humans are possessive, jealous creatures, and we don't like to share. I remember the first time I picked up another child in front of my son when he was 11 months old. He screamed until I put the other child down. Open relationships are not natural, rather.. We've got to brainwash ourselves into thinking they are. *Shrugs* Just my take...


She captured my thoughts. You can be fine with the idea of you outsourcing if your spouse doesn’t like sex. But the idea of your spouse out there banging others is usually quite intolerable. We’re territorial creatures.... “that’s mine!” Rationally I think they might be able to ‘justify’ it being ok (either spouse), but instinctually and emotionally handling it is a completely other thing.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There are spouses who say: "Have an affair but don't tell me about it."

A friend of mine heard those words from his wife. When she discovered the affair she divorced him.

Many years ago a man whose wife was mentally ill with schizophrenia and had not sexual desire told him to find other women but not to tell her about it.


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

I've heard something similar. A successful man with a wife and kids told his friends, "If you know my wife cheated on me, don't tell me about it. I like my life as it is."


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Yeah let's see.
20% men get 80% of the sex.
80% men get the money provider role.

I volunteer for the sex role...

Yea the articles idea will go over very well.


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

BostonBruins32 said:


> very interesting. when in MC a few months back, regarding issues and specifically on the topic of sexlessness, the counselor said to my wife: "you might not care much about sex with your husband, but would you care much if he outsourced that?" wife in half tears just listening.
> 
> which i remember thinking at the time, and i should have asked, does she indeed care? a small part of me thinks my wife wouldnt care if I outsourced sex. I have a sexless thread elsewhere on here, but its an interesting thought. If you are LD or no drive, would you care if your spouse got thier jollies off else where? You shouldnt right? I mean lets be consistent. If you don't care about hockey and dont like going to games, do you care if your husband goes with someone else? Especially if your husband hates rap music, but goes to a rap concert with you. if you wont offer the same type of sacrafice, then you shouldnt care if he outsources it.
> 
> food for thought..


But there's so much MORE to sex than just ****ing!!! It is the major bond of the marriage! If you have to outsource, even with spouse's tacit approval, it is a pathetic, sad little marriage indeed.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

KookedFish said:


> *In big cities you'll find a plethora of women who are between 30 and 50, unmarried and without kids (or with kids and divorced), employing a similar dating pattern of guys in the their 20s...one-night-stands, boy-toys, casual relationships, etc*. I've also seen Small-town America, where the majority of women are married with 2 kids by 25. Different regions can have vastly different cultures in terms of sex and dating.


I wonder if you could call that outsourcing of your love life/sex life, as opposed to getting a married partner?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> There are spouses who say: "Have an affair but don't tell me about it."
> 
> A friend of mine heard those words from his wife. When she discovered the affair she divorced him.
> 
> Many years ago a man whose wife was mentally ill with schizophrenia and had not sexual desire told him to find other women but not to tell her about it.


There is an analogy with the Ruler who if officially unaware of things can condone them, but if officially asked or obligated to utter an opinion is forced to judge and punish people.

Much like Galilei and Bruno got almost and really killed about their expressions about the universe.

The opposite side of this is that the WS feels free to cheat, as long as it is secret. I believe in interviews, about 70-80% of persons would cheat if it could be not discovered anytime.

So the being in the open is the key to how people act much ore than how the ethical thinking would prescribe to act...

A bit confused thinking here, sorry...


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Yeah let's see.
> 20% men get 80% of the sex.
> 80% men get the money provider role.
> 
> ...


Hey, I fit well into your equasion, I belong to the 20% with a lot of sex, but not to the 80% with the cash...

As Woody says, Life Sucks and then You Die.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> But there's so much MORE to sex than just ****ing!!! It is the major bond of the marriage! If you have to outsource, even with spouse's tacit approval, it is a pathetic, sad little marriage indeed.


totally. Sometimes sex for me is just Fing, sometimes its a bond. With my wife its been a combination of both. With other women it was just Fing, and very easy to detach from any real feelings.

I'm just saying. For some/many of us, sex is a primal need (even just the Fing). Therefore if a spouse does not care enough to help satisfy this need, especially with nothing more than a "just not as important to me" excuse, then said spouse should not have any concerns over outsourcing. 

LDs/NDs should remain consistent. If sex is not a big deal to you, then your spouse having sex elsewhere should remain not a big deal to you. 

And yes I speak like a tough guy who doesnt care, but unfortuantely I care too much to cheat. Just playing devils advocate.


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## not recognizable (Mar 19, 2011)

KookedFish said:


> Often times I feel that if my wife was ok with 2 meaningless infidelities a year, or at least turned a blind eye, our marriage would be way better. I can't tell if our lacking sex life is the cause of our problems or the other way around. Either way, I think men are pre-disposed biologically to cheat. Women do it for emotional reasons (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas guys wanna do it cause it's in our nature.


"Women do it for emotional reasons (correct me if I'm wrong), "

Well, you said "correct me." Women cheat for emotional reasons and/or physical reasons. Some women have affairs simply because they're physically attracted to men. We are "visual" and have sex drives too. Just not stimulated by every man that breathes. Who do you think all these guys who have it "in their nature" are getting it with, anyway?


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## not recognizable (Mar 19, 2011)

And kooked, you're one of those men who hasn't quite learned this, so I'll just lay it out for you.

Women are JUST. LIKE. MEN. From closing their eyes for the same reasons, to being visual. We're just judged for it, harshly. Nobody wants to be called a ****. :/

--------------------------------------------
YES. And we don't have all the sexualized eye candy available to us at every turn like men do.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> To each his own, I suppose. We've firmly established that marriage doesn't mean much in my country, so we are now free to form pretty much any conceivable relationship(s) and call it "marriage". In twenty years, a guy will be able to legally marry a toaster oven, a garden gnome, and a Shetland pony at the same time.


All platonic relationships no doubt


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I spend more time in the lab dealing with toaster ovens than I do at home dealing with my wife. Both platonic relationships :rofl:

Marriage is rather pointless the way the laws and odds are stacked against it those days... The expectations are just too high, too many people jump into marriage without a clear understanding of what they're doing, and when something is not working right it's either:

- I'm going to my mother
- we need MC and IC 
- we're splitting
- I can't believe he cheated on me

Etc


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kooked,
M2 and I are very direct about this stuff. Since being tightly bonded is important - sex would only stop if it became bad. Boring is not the basis for stopping. 

At one point she suggested that she didn't want to anymore. 

I told her that:
- stopping was acceptable
- didn't want her to do anything she didn't want to do
- was committed to her and the marriage 
- would outsource without risk to the marriage via massages with manual happy ending a couple times a week

Result:
- Instant fury which I responded to with calm and firm repetition of the message above and added: this is ALL about you. It's not what I want, you simply need a break. Willing to give you one for as long as you like, just not willing to be forced into celibacy. 
- Continued fury - I just got quiet
- About a an hour later the hysterical bonding sex began. Apparently M2 has a violent allergy to the notion of any other women touching the ummm - equipment, even a random set of masseuses that I would rotate through to avoid any type attachment at all

I didn't want to get a divorce, I love M2. That said, I don't bluff. So this wasn't thrown out as an idea to discuss. This was presented as my plan to deal with her choice to not continue having sex. She fully understood that if my choices were to accept forced celibacy or accept a divorce I would not have contested the D if she had filed. 

So her choices were clear:
- Continue a complete husband wife marriage
- Accept me outsourcing that part 
- Divorce me for not agreeing to begin forced into celibacy





KookedFish said:


> Interesting. Well, if that's the case then people should just open up about it instead of this made up BS about monogamous relationships and marriage. So basically you're saying that for most modern-day people, the idea of marriage is a lie, or a social construct to convince outsiders that marriage is still relevant in today's society? That men who cheat are "bad" and should be publicly chastised while women do the same thing?
> 
> I'm not angry at you. Just at the thought that society as a whole has promoted an idea for centuries that is based on false pretense.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

May I ask why she wanted to stop, MEM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Kooked,
> M2 and I are very direct about this stuff. Since being tightly bonded is important - sex would only stop if it became bad. Boring is not the basis for stopping.


The thing is, I'm the one who doesn't wanna have sex with her. That, and when I do SHE's not in the mood. So either our "schedules" conflict or, more often, I'm not in the mood.

I'm not seeking advice here, just giving my $0.02.

not recognizable and MEM, thanks for the tips. Perhaps us men are just afraid of women being on the same sexual plane as us. Either cause we know you all could snap your fingers and get laid 24/7 if you're even semi-attractive, while we have to work hard and provide that "security" thing. These are generalizations of course, and exceptions always apply.


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## not recognizable (Mar 19, 2011)

KookedFish said:


> The thing is, I'm the one who doesn't wanna have sex with her. That, and when I do SHE's not in the mood. So either our "schedules" conflict or, more often, I'm not in the mood.
> 
> I'm not seeking advice here, just giving my $0.02.
> 
> not recognizable and MEM, thanks for the tips. Perhaps us men are just afraid of women being on the same sexual plane as us. Either cause we know you all could snap your fingers and get laid 24/7 if you're even semi-attractive, while we have to work hard and provide that "security" thing. These are generalizations of course, and exceptions always apply.


Wow KookedFish, you are seriously courageous for acknowledging that "Perhaps us men are just afraid of women being on the same sexual plane as us." You wouldn't believe the resistance and excuses and flimsy "scientific" studies I have heard designed to convince women they are not as sexual, or as "visual" as men, not "wired that way" and on and on. Honestly it is tedious and tiresome. It seems some men want women to be more sexual and then deny it when it happens! 

Your open mindedness is so refreshing!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sure.

She fell in love with a man who worked for us. And she wanted me to divorce her so they could be together. 

She was not willing to directly initiate a divorce, because she's catholic and she had no valid basis for divorcing me. So this was kind of a loophole: I'll just tell MEM I'm not attracted to him and HE will divorce ME. I never mentioned divorce over this. And while insulted, I wasn't really mad at her. 

Part of the reason she responded to strongly to my suggestion was she realized that I truly did NOT want her to do anything she did not want to do. 


QUOTE=jld;7914074]May I ask why she wanted to stop, MEM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ouch, MEM. I am sure that that did not build trust.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Everybody gets one 'get out of jail free card' for each quarter century they spend with me, that was hers.




jld said:


> Ouch, MEM. I am sure that that did not build trust.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

She had a PA with this guy mem?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

WL,
I don't believe so because:
We sold the business, and 6 months after we sold it she told me how she felt about him. 
2. The catalyst for her confession was a conversation in which I profusely apologized for something I'd recently done to her. It was cruel, hurtful and completely out of character. After I provided her an unconditional apology I made a comment about the *event*. 

The one where she was hateful and escalating conflict for 4 straight days. On the third day she said she was tired of being married to me. And on the fourth that she no longer wanted to have sex. 

All I said was: The difference between us is that when I am cruel (which is very rare), I genuinely feel remorse and try to heal whatever injury I've caused you. That's not always true in reverse. When you wanted a divorce and told me you no longer desired me, that felt really bad. You never explained why nor did you ever apologize. 

M2 was sitting on the bed and I was leaning against the wall of the bedroom facing her. 

All she had to do at that point was say: I was having awful PMS and was just being a hateful bltch and I'm sorry. 

I would have accepted that without hesitation and that would have been that. I wasn't suspicious, and I wasn't in interrogation mode. I was just trying to get her to realize that she sometimes lacks empathy. 

Instead she confessed. And it was painful to hear but I stayed calm and just asked questions. The basic flavor was:
- She slowly fell in love with him - he was the ultimate handyman. This is a man who could build an entire house by himself. She has always been turned on when I build or repair stuff. But I'm an amateur - he came in 4th in a statewide carpentry competition. Handsome, ruggedly good looking guy with a good sense of humor. 
- She would have slept with him if he'd made a pass. Lucky for me he actually liked me. And more importantly his ex wife of 20 years had cheated on him, divorced him, crushed his heart and his finances. So he knew what it was like to be on the other side of that equation. 
- They never kissed. She said that they both knew if they started kissing they wouldn't stop there. 
- Sometimes he would playfully pick her up and whirl her around.

It was a totally voluntary confession. Makes no sense to voluntarily confess, and lie about the core of the matter. 

And I was calm the whole conversation. Sad, but calm. So I don't believe that she began to confess and then panicked and did a massive edit on the story. We both stayed calm. 

It was a betrayal. It felt bad. And it's also true that I contributed to the whole mess. I have a post somewhere else on my part of it. 

QUOTE=weightlifter;7923610]She had a PA with this guy mem?[/QUOTE]


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Outsource the whole thing and be damned


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## KookedFish (Sep 29, 2013)

not recognizable said:


> Wow KookedFish, you are seriously courageous for acknowledging that "Perhaps us men are just afraid of women being on the same sexual plane as us." You wouldn't believe the resistance and excuses and flimsy "scientific" studies I have heard designed to convince women they are not as sexual, or as "visual" as men, not "wired that way" and on and on. Honestly it is tedious and tiresome. It seems some men want women to be more sexual and then deny it when it happens!
> 
> Your open mindedness is so refreshing!!


Going about with this new line of thinking has changed my world in interesting ways already. For one, it's taken away a lot of the daunting mystery I've always felt regarding women. Realizing men and women may be more similar than I thought has made interacting much easier.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

not recognizable said:


> And kooked, you're one of those men who hasn't quite learned this, so I'll just lay it out for you.
> 
> Women are JUST. LIKE. MEN. From closing their eyes for the same reasons, to being visual. We're just judged for it, harshly. Nobody wants to be called a ****. :/
> 
> ...


You cannot blame us men for not knowing this, women have successfully hidden this sexual part of their identity until recently. Men got/still get berated for looking at other women, get blamed for all sexual offenses, get blamed for not communicating, get blamed for not being emotional available, for wanting too much of this, not giving enough of that.....

Ha, it's time for the Revolution. 

But thank you for your look inside :smthumbup:


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

With the recent open marriage my wife and I have, I am not sure if is for the best...

It didn't feel all warm and fuzzy to hear that my wife doesn't desire me...After all my changing: Working out, new hobby's, new interest, increased sex drive, new female friends...nothing helped to increase her desire for me...

That's about when the idea of the open marriage was born... 

All my wife wants is for me to back off on sex and go back to what it was like before... I don't know if that is possible...

My wife is so LD that I don't believe she would ever act on the open marriage herself... That is possible... 

If she was able to find a man who could really light her fire, that would be a good thing because I want her to enjoy sex... I want her to have that sexual passion, even if it is with another man...I want to have that passion with a woman as well.... I wish that my wife and I can have that mutual sexual chemistry, but we don't... Outsourcing seems like a short term solution...

If my wife ended up in a relationship... I don't know how I would feel though...

The only thing I am doing now is developing female friends...I am a nice guy And that's how women see me...

With the hiking group I am on, there was a new lady... When I introduced myself, she said " so you're the wild one I hear about!"... Another woman chimed in and said" don't let him fool you... He a gentleman... He just doesn't want anybody to know that he's not a bad boy....There goes my reputation...

My wife tells me I can outsource.... She tells me she is not in love with me and isn't sexually attracted to me... Yes, that does hurt...However, the "friendships" I am developing are just that... Friends...The ones who talk to me the most, I don't feel any sexual chemistry...

In theory, outsourcing seems like it would work... For the vast majority, our ego gets in the way...I still don't want to hurt my wife, even though she tells me she wouldn't be hurt... I don't believe her...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Everybody gets one 'get out of jail free card' for each quarter century they spend with me, that was hers.


Not sure if I understand (only read some of the posts in this thread).

If your wife found someone else and wants to be with that person....what else is there?

Time to move on now?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Trickster said:


> With the recent open marriage my wife and I have, I am not sure if is for the best...
> 
> It didn't feel all warm and fuzzy to hear that my wife doesn't desire me...After all my changing: Working out, new hobby's, new interest, increased sex drive, new female friends...nothing helped to increase her desire for me...
> 
> ...


What I gather from your post is that your wife wants to do whatever she wants and has 0 feeling left for you.

And you think this can be fixed?

Rather optimistic. 

I guess she might get used and abused by bunch of dudes and come back running to you. 

The big question is, will you ever look at her the same or can possibly love her at that point.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

DoF said:


> What I gather from your post is that your wife wants to do whatever she wants and has 0 feeling left for you.
> 
> And you think this can be fixed?
> 
> ...


My wife isn't the type to get used and abused...She just doesn't want sex nearly as often....Basically , she is telling me is if I can find a willing woman...knock myself out... The problem there is I like the nice girls...After all, I married a 25 year old virgin...

It's my wife who believes that I can have sex with another woman, get "it" out of my system, an come crawling back to her and realize she is the best woman for me...

Outsourcing is just an option.... It doesn't mean either on of us will actually act on it... It feels good/ liberating that the option is there and any new relationship wouldn't lead to D...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Trickster said:


> My wife isn't the type to get used and abused...She just doesn't want sex nearly as often....Basically , she is telling me is if I can find a willing woman...knock myself out... The problem there is I like the nice girls...After all, I married a 25 year old virgin...
> 
> It's my wife who believes that I can have sex with another woman, get "it" out of my system, an come crawling back to her and realize she is the best woman for me...
> 
> Outsourcing is just an option.... It doesn't mean either on of us will actually act on it... It feels good/ liberating that the option is there and any new relationship wouldn't lead to D...



All I can say is, whatever floats that boat.

Personally I think it's dangerous and can lead down a wrong path.

Also, expect her to ask for the same in the near future.

Perhaps she is testing you???


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Or setting you up for an epic "he cheated on me" fail?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

john117 said:


> Or setting you up for an epic "he cheated on me" fail?


Gathering evidence for divorce perhaps?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Pretty much. I posed the story of my wife's cousin who fell for exactly that. Lost house, child, had health breakdown, laid of from mid six figure job...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

DoF said:


> Gathering evidence for divorce perhaps?


Which may not be a bad thing, when all is said and done.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

This is no test...There wont be a D....we have very little equity in our home and virtually no savings. I am self employed, my wife just got a new job after many years of bei g a SAHM. She just didn't want To go back to work after our daughter started school. 

For those who have followed my many threads, it seems like our marriage is messed up... Well, in kinda is, but overall it's fine. I usually keep most things to myself and come to TAM to vent... I know I am the messed up one... My wife believes she is messed up.. Maybe were perfect together... Minus the sex...

My wife agree that we are best friends...we like companionship, we both want the intact home for our daughter, we both want to be here for our daughter...

My wife knows I want way more sex than what she wants...love and sex are two different things to her...I imagine I can just accept sex once a week or less... It won't kill me..... As many stated before though, friendship and companionship is not enough...That doesn't mean we have to D...


My wife is fine if I outsource as long as we stay married... Divorce is not an option and it won't be for a very long time... No matter what, it would mean poverty for the both of us and our daughter will pay that price.

The other option is to continue to receive duty sex....I am not happy with that...

I'll see how we are a year from now...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Trickster said:


> With the recent open marriage my wife and I have, I am not sure if is for the best...
> 
> It didn't feel all warm and fuzzy to hear that my wife doesn't desire me...After all my changing: Working out, new hobby's, new interest, increased sex drive, new female friends...nothing helped to increase her desire for me...
> 
> ...


This is one of those so messed up I am short circuiting and have nothing for advice.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> This is one of those so messed up I am short circuiting and have nothing for advice.


I agree...I think I am short circuiting myself and I am running in default mode...Not gonna argue with that...I am just out of options...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

BostonBruins32 said:


> totally. Sometimes sex for me is just Fing, sometimes its a bond. With my wife its been a combination of both. With other women it was just Fing, and very easy to detach from any real feelings.
> 
> I'm just saying. For some/many of us, sex is a primal need (even just the Fing). Therefore if a spouse does not care enough to help satisfy this need, especially with nothing more than a "just not as important to me" excuse, then said spouse should not have any concerns over outsourcing.
> 
> ...



Are you calling me a Devil???


Most TAMMERS by now know that I have truly lost my mind... My wife really seems fine if I outsource... As much as I talk about it here, when it comes down to it, I think I wouldn't go through with it... Deep down, I know my wife would be hurt...

She just doesn't realize how important sex is to me as well as affection...affection can be outsourced as well..'.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Trickster, at this point I will have to agree with below...but perhaps I have little faith left in me, so let me give it another shot I guess?



weightlifter said:


> This is one of those so messed up I am short circuiting and have nothing for advice.


Have you ever asked yourself the following:

Do I want to be married (or in a relationship) with someone that doesn't love me at all?

Are you happy with your current marriage (as is)?

Future actions you will take (or already have taken) will give my wife all the tools to screw me in divorce.

Future actions you will take (or already have taken) will make you look EXTREMELY poor to your daughter and will not teach her healthy relationship dynamics?

Have you considered the risk of being in this type of relationship (you having sex, STDs that you might get OR your wife will get if you are sexually active with others).

I have 100s of other questions, so let's start with above first....


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

DoF said:


> Trickster, at this point I will have to agree with below...but perhaps I have little faith left in me, so let me give it another shot I guess?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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