# Examples of manipulative behavior?



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

I will try to keep this short and to the point, as I tend to ramble.

During talks and arguments with my wife, she has described me as manipulative on more than one occasion. When I ask for examples, she never really answers the question. I ask because I want to know what I am doing wrong, or at least what she thinks is wrong, so I can change it or at least discuss it with her.

So, looking at Cosmo's list of 17 signs your partner is manipulative, I honestly don't think I do any of those items. Maybe I do unconsciously?

I will admit, there have been times when I have been consciously manipulative - mainly with regards to a certain situation - and I have resolved to never do those things again.

Her family apparently thinks that I am manipulative too, although I only hear that from her. I believe her.

Being an HSP, I do often have a dozen conversations in my head before broaching a subject with people, and choose the most agreeable approach. Is that being manipulative?

Does anyone have any experience like this? Can you give me specific examples of manipulations?


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Well, I'll tell you that my husband can be manipulative and I think he learned that from his mother (she's very good at giving guilt trips too). When we're having an argument, he tends to go on & on because he needs me to agree with him. He doesn't stop until I do. I often feel like everything has to be done his way and everything has to be seen his way. He often wants to change my emotions & feelings. He's gotten better about it though lately because I call him out on it now-a-days. 

Do you often plan out your argument in advance so you're not really even listening to your wife's response?


----------



## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Manipulators often manipulate by accusing the manipulatee of being the manipulator.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Seppuku said:


> I will try to keep this short and to the point, as I tend to ramble.
> 
> During talks and arguments with my wife, she has described me as manipulative on more than one occasion. When I ask for examples, she never really answers the question. I ask because I want to know what I am doing wrong, or at least what she thinks is wrong, so I can change it or at least discuss it with her.
> 
> ...


If she is unable to give examples, I would think that she may just be overwhelmed by your possibly more logical positions. She likely still wants her feelings to be heard, though, regardless of how logical they are, and your perhaps very solid arguments may make her emotions seem rather insignificant in comparison.

Would you say there is a significant power differential in your marriage? Does she feel "less than" you, in your opinion?

If so, it is really important that you set logic aside for the moment, and first try to understand where she is coming from. She likely needs your empathy before she will be able to hear your more logical approach.

I am not sure what HSP means, but I think anyone with any EQ is going to think about the most effective way to approach people. To some it may be to say things directly, and to others it may be "massaging" the message.

I think just being direct is the most honest, non-manipulative approach, especially when you are okay with whatever feedback you get (not trying to control it). But there are plenty here who advocate for "saying it the way it will best be received," too, whatever they believe that to be. It may just come down to each individual's style.


----------



## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

TAM2013 said:


> Manipulators often manipulate by accusing the manipulatee of being the manipulator?


But what if the manipulatee turns out to be the manipulator, does that make the manipulator any less of a manipulator for manipulating the manipulatee?


----------



## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Depends who's got the upper hand (which can change). Sometimes, the manipulatee might manipulate the manipulator by being manipulated so they've got some leverage to manipulate the manipulator, making the manipulator the manipulatee.

Phew.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Well, I'll tell you that my husband can be manipulative and I think he learned that from his mother (she's very good at giving guilt trips too). When we're having an argument, he tends to go on & on because he needs me to agree with him. He doesn't stop until I do. I often feel like everything has to be done his way and everything has to be seen his way. He often wants to change my emotions & feelings. He's gotten better about it though lately because I call him out on it now-a-days.
> 
> Do you often plan out your argument in advance so you're not really even listening to your wife's response?


Not exactly. If I want to express something to her and I anticipate an argument, I will plan how I broach the subject in the way that I think best avoids an argument.

I tend to clam up during arguments unless there is something that I think really needs to be said.


TAM2013 said:


> Manipulators often manipulate by accusing the manipulatee of being the manipulator.


I am aware. I found many things on that list that she does, actually. I am not sure how, or even if, I will bring it up. I want to focus on improving myself first.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

jld said:


> If she is unable to give examples, I would think that she may just be overwhelmed by your possibly more logical positions. She likely still wants her feelings to be heard, though, regardless of how logical they are, and your perhaps very solid arguments may make her emotions seem rather insignificant in comparison.
> 
> Would you say there is a significant power differential in your marriage? Does she feel "less than" you, in your opinion?
> 
> ...


There isn't really a power struggle, if that's what you mean. If anything, she might view me as "less than."

I don't think I could put logic aside, as you say. That's kind of just how I think. But I do listen to her feelings, and I empathize way more than she thinks. Maybe I am just not sure how to communicate that - I am open to suggestions.

HSP means Highly Sensitive Person - most simply put, I process information longer than most. Sometimes a lot longer.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

jld said:


> If she is unable to give examples, I would think that she may just be overwhelmed by your possibly more logical positions. She likely still wants her feelings to be heard, though, regardless of how logical they are, and your perhaps very solid arguments may make her emotions seem rather insignificant in comparison.
> 
> Would you say there is a significant power differential in your marriage? Does she feel "less than" you, in your opinion?
> 
> ...


HSP means "highly sensitive person." Many--but not all, it is important to note--HSPs tend to be more empathetic than non-HSPs. He brings it up because HSPs and highly empathetic people are more susceptible to manipulation, and also want to avoid being (or appearing) manipulative themselves. Which is why, I think, his wife's accusation confounds him.

More on HSPs: 16 Habits Of Highly Sensitive People | Huffington Post.

If he really IS an HSP, I don't think that he needs to provide MORE empathy--he's probably already providing enough.

I'm not going to say that this is what's going on with the OP, because I don't want to project, but this is what happened in my experience, and I see some parallels:

I am an empath/HSP, and my XH is/was a narcissist and he was also emotionally manipulative and emotionally abusive. He learned it from his mother, and he emotionally manipulated EVERYONE. It was just normal behavior for him--he didn't recognize it as anything unhealthy, and he assumed that everyone did the same thing as him. So anytime that I showed any type of genuine emotion, be it anger, sadness, disappointment, etc... he didn't see the legitimacy of my feelings. He thought that I was faking emotion as a way to manipulate HIM! It was completely beyond his comprehension that my emotions might be real. So he in return would give me a fake emotional response, while internally building resentment towards me because he thought I was trying to manipulate him.


----------



## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

TAM2013 said:


> Depends who's got the upper hand (which can change). Sometimes, the manipulatee might manipulate the manipulator by being manipulated so they've got some leverage to manipulate the manipulator, making the manipulator the manipulatee.
> 
> Phew.


Agreed. The manipulatee manipulating the manipulator makes himself/herself the manipulator thereby divesting the right to call out the manipulator for their manipulating since the manipulation of both manipulatee and manipulator adds to the overall manipulation in the relationship. They should manipulate themselves into no longer being manipulators.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Seppuku said:


> There isn't really a power struggle, if that's what you mean. If anything, she might view me as "less than."


How do you think she views you as "less than"?

If you "clam up during arguments," she may view that as manipulative. You may want to ask her about this, as in, "Honey, do you feel I withhold my feelings or withdraw from you at times, to avoid arguments?" You could also explain to her why you do that. 



> I don't think I could put logic aside, as you say. That's kind of just how I think. But I do listen to her feelings, and I empathize way more than she thinks. Maybe I am just not sure how to communicate that - I am open to suggestions.


Using the phrase, "Help me understand," and then really listening to what she says, and repeating some of it back to her, or paraphrasing it, may help. Asking open-ended questions may, too.

You could also point out to her the ways you do feel you empathize with her. But certainly be open to hearing if she disagrees with that, and why. Defensiveness will not resolve conflict.



> HSP means Highly Sensitive Person - most simply put, I process information longer than most. Sometimes a lot longer.


Interesting. Thanks for explaining that.


----------



## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

EunuchMonk said:


> They should manipulate themselves into no longer being manipulators.


That made me laugh.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

jld said:


> How do you think she views you as "less than"?
> 
> If you "clam up during arguments," she may view that as manipulative. You may want to ask her about this, as in, "Honey, do you feel I withhold my feelings or withdraw from you at times, to avoid arguments?" You could also explain to her why you do that.
> 
> ...


To fully answer your first question would be another thread. It is quite complicated, but she has more or less said as much during arguments.

Speaking of arguments, I clam up because if I don't it will simply escalate. Most times she just steamrolls the conversation. I speak at first, but if (when) it gets to a point where she is not truly hearing what I have to say, I no longer see the point in saying anything. Then I just let her vent for however long she needs to vent. I listen to what she has to say and acknowledge her feelings, but to be fair I always listened but didn't always acknowledge her feelings.

If I am angry about something she did and try to talk to her about it, it always (and I mean always) ends up with her being mad at me for... being mad? Then it almost always turns into an argument about how I never loved her since she was the one that chased me (when we were teenagers), and how I have never shown her the love that she has shown me.

I explain to her that she is wrong about how much I love her, that she is right that she was the one that pursued me, that we were basically kids at the time, etc. But by the time it gets to that point the rest of the day and night is pretty much a lost cause so again I just let her vent.

Because of this, I very rarely broach a subject with her, but I am terrible at hiding my emotions and she picks up on that asking me what's wrong, rinse, repeat. Maybe she thinks I am acting sadly on purpose? Most times I just try to stay away from her until I am in a better frame of mind, but she always wants me to be in the same room with her, unless I am doing housework, etc.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like she is the one being more manipulative.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Seppuku said:


> To fully answer your first question would be another thread. It is quite complicated, but she has more or less said as much during arguments.
> 
> Speaking of arguments, I clam up because if I don't it will simply escalate. Most times she just steamrolls the conversation. I speak at first, but if (when) it gets to a point where she is not truly hearing what I have to say, I no longer see the point in saying anything. Then I just let her vent for however long she needs to vent. I listen to what she has to say and acknowledge her feelings, but to be fair I always listened but didn't always acknowledge her feelings.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you both need to learn to communicate more effectively.

How about, the next time she gets wound up, listen actively: Repeat back some of what she says, or paraphrase it. Ask open-ended questions. Really pay attention to her feelings. This should calm her and make her feel respected.

When she is calm, bring up your own points. If she gets upset, go back to active listening. When she is calm again, restart with your logical points.

When you need to bring something up, be direct. "Honey, I need to talk to you about something. I have some concerns that I need your input on. When would be a good time for you?" If she starts getting upset during the argument, start to listen actively. If she feels you are sincere, it should calm her. 

You won't make any progress if she feels threatened. Your withdrawing may make her feel that way. You simply must stay in the game, and learn to communicate more effectively, including leading that communication.

I would avoid accusing her of being manipulative, abusive, etc. Accusations tend to invite defensiveness. Just focus on communicating more effectively.


----------



## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

We all present arguments for the purpose of bringing about specific desired results. Otherwise, we're just moving our faces to keep warm. 

If my argument is valid and superior to other arguments then is it reasonable to adopt my argument. It is not only appropriate but good practice to form a bullet proof argument by anticipating the opposing views. This is not being manipulative. 

On the other hand, if my argument is weak but I force other to adopt it by appealing to emotions or simply by wearing them down, then I am being manipulative.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, the reason for avoiding manipulation is because you are unlikely to get the healthiest result for all involved with it. The ideal is to get a healthy result for everyone.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Seppuku said:


> I will try to keep this short and to the point, as I tend to ramble.
> 
> During talks and arguments with my wife, she has described me as manipulative on more than one occasion. When I ask for examples, she never really answers the question. I ask because I want to know what I am doing wrong, or at least what she thinks is wrong, so I can change it or at least discuss it with her.


She most likely anticipates having to argue with you or telling you and you do nothing about it.



> So, looking at Cosmo's list of 17 signs your partner is manipulative, I honestly don't think I do any of those items. Maybe I do unconsciously?
> 
> I will admit, there have been times when I have been consciously manipulative - mainly with regards to a certain situation - and I have resolved to never do those things again.
> 
> ...


Manipulation goes far beyond what most consider. The question you need to ask yourself, is how do you get what you want or try to.

-Making sure she feels bad because you were hurt by her.
-Playing victim
-offering emotional punishment or emotional rewards for good/bad behavior

The best example is when person A feels slighted by person B, and then stays ticked off and unavailable for hours/days. That reaction is guaranteed to be 10x as bad as the initial slight.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

jld said:


> It sounds like you both need to learn to communicate more effectively.
> 
> How about, the next time she gets wound up, listen actively: Repeat back some of what she says, or paraphrase it. Ask open-ended questions. Really pay attention to her feelings. This should calm her and make her feel respected.
> 
> ...


I agree that we need to communicate more effectively. However, I do "active listening" and it doesn't seem to help. It's like once she reaches some point of no return, there is no stopping it.

For example, even when we discuss something not related to our relationship: she might be talking about something that happens at work and she gets herself so worked up to the point of tears / rage, whether I am actively listening or not. She is inconsolable and doesn't calm down until she goes to sleep.

The fact that she pursued me when we were young works its way into it quite often. She still resents me for that.

Regardless, I don't intend to accuse her of being manipulative. I just don't know what else I can do to communicate more effectively.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

Relationship Teacher said:


> She most likely anticipates having to argue with you or telling you and you do nothing about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I want to be honest, at least with myself - usually I just tell her what I want. But I do punish her emotionally as well. It's not something I do consciously, but I suppose she doesn't know that. I just tend to retreat into myself because i don't like to argue.

That's something I can definitely work on - thanks.

I also made snide remarks quite often - she mentioned that recently and I haven't done it since. It's not really in order to get what I want, it's mostly because I might be angry or upset.


----------



## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

I don't think your problem stems from either of you being manipulative. I don't even think you have a communication problem. 

Unless you're exaggerating, I think your wife is immature and emotionally unstable. Is she on any medications?


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

She always wants you to be in the same room with her? Why?


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Seppuku said:


> I want to be honest, at least with myself - usually I just tell her what I want. But I do punish her emotionally as well. It's not something I do consciously, but I suppose she doesn't know that. I just tend to retreat into myself because i don't like to argue.



If you retreat, can you imagine how she feels? There are a lot of possibilities, but most likely she feels cut off, punished and unable to continue the relationship, at the moment.



> That's something I can definitely work on - thanks.
> 
> I also made snide remarks quite often - she mentioned that recently and I haven't done it since. It's not really in order to get what I want, it's mostly because I might be angry or upset.


Maybe it is more subtle than "getting" what you want.

It can even be choosing to take things the worst way possible, with no consideration of what the other person meant.

A healthy dose of introspection is in order.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Seppuku said:


> Regardless, I don't intend to accuse her of being manipulative. I just don't know what else I can do to communicate more effectively.


You don't always need words to communicate.
Think of it this way.

You are the steadfast bolder on the beach and your wife is the surf, constantly crashing on top of you. 

She needs you to be the rock that does not talk much, that is able to take the emotional beating she gives out. (without analyzing it or discussing it)


Let the surf rage by itself and act like it does nothing to you. In time, she will calm.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

KillerClown said:


> I don't think your problem stems from either of you being manipulative. I don't even think you have a communication problem.
> 
> Unless you're exaggerating, I think your wife is immature and emotionally unstable. Is she on any medications?


No, but she does drink a lot. But again, if I bring it up we end up arguing.


*Deidre* said:


> She always wants you to be in the same room with her? Why?


I really don't know. I used to play a computer game a lot, which she didn't like. She thought I was addicted. If she was napping during the day, I would go and play. So now if she is napping and I leave the room, she will wake up within 10 minutes and call for me. I haven't played that game in years but I guess the habit is still there.

Now if I leave the room to say, fold laundry, I will tell her so. But 15 or 20 minutes later she will call for me and ask what I'm doing.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

UMP said:


> You don't always need words to communicate.
> Think of it this way.
> 
> You are the steadfast bolder on the beach and your wife is the surf, constantly crashing on top of you.
> ...


That's what I do now, lol. I am wondering if there is a better way.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Seppuku said:


> That's what I do now, lol. I am wondering if there is a better way.


You sure?
You said you're a very sensitive person. 

Only when I ended up not giving a shiit at what my wife threw at me (emotionaly) that's when things got better. You cannot let her effect you emotionally. 

Do you want to play that video game? Do you know you're not "addicted?" If so, you have every right to play the game. Enjoy it.
Is she pissed off? Who cares? Let her rant and rave. Don't let it _effect_ you emotionally.

Never get upset, never argue, no snide remarks and be kind. You can't hide your emotions?
Neither can I, so I learned not to care so much about the emotional roller coaster.


----------



## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Sep, I don't think you have a communications issue. I think your wife is need of serious professional help. Nothing you told me about your wife is normal. Is this how you've always know her to be? Was there ever a time when she was calm and happy for an extended period of time, like several weeks?


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

UMP said:


> You sure?
> You said you're a very sensitive person.
> 
> Only when I ended up not giving a shiit at what my wife threw at me (emotionaly) that's when things got better. You cannot let her effect you emotionally.
> ...


Reasonably sure.

I have no desire to play that game anymore, haven't thought about it in a very long time, actually.

Not caring about the emotional roller coaster - how did you do it? Is there a certain frame of mind or perspective that might help, or is it just a force of will type of thing?


----------



## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

My wife is a manipulator who uses guilt and "emotional black mail" and it's a family trait in her side. Her dad is the master of them all. 
She sometimes accuses me of manipulating her. I don't believe in hinting, if I want something, I ask directly. Like sex, I say let's do it. She says yes or no. 

So as someone said, great manipulators manipulate by accusing others of manipulation. 

The best way to deal with it is to not care. Let her say what she wants. Make sure you are not manipulating her and do what you need to do.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

KillerClown said:


> Sep, I don't think you have a communications issue. I think your wife is need of serious professional help. Nothing you told me about your wife is normal. Is this how you've always know her to be? Was there ever a time when she was calm and happy for an extended period of time, like several weeks?


I agree with you, but she would refuse and then chide me for even suggesting it.

She used to be happier, but she blames circumstances, and me, for changing her. But no, she's never been a happy-go-lucky type of person. She was always very serious.

The problems started getting really bad when she started drinking.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> My wife is a manipulator who uses guilt and "emotional black mail" and it's a family trait in her side. Her dad is the master of them all.
> She sometimes accuses me of manipulating her. I don't believe in hinting, if I want something, I ask directly. Like sex, I say let's do it. She says yes or no.
> 
> So as someone said, great manipulators manipulate by accusing others of manipulation.
> ...


It is difficult for me because I cannot be apathetic about only one aspect of our relationship. I think it will help me to learn to stop being so sensitive.

Ironically, I'm only this sensitive when it comes from her. If her sister said the same things to me, it wouldn't bother me in the least.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Seppuku said:


> No, but she does drink a lot. But again, if I bring it up we end up arguing.
> 
> I really don't know. I used to play a computer game a lot, which she didn't like. She thought I was addicted. If she was napping during the day, I would go and play. So now if she is napping and I leave the room, she will wake up within 10 minutes and call for me. I haven't played that game in years but I guess the habit is still there.
> 
> Now if I leave the room to say, fold laundry, I will tell her so. But 15 or 20 minutes later she will call for me and ask what I'm doing.


Sounds like she is the manipulator, and projects it on you. You're in a controlling relationship and if you were a woman, everyone would be telling to get out because your husband sounds insanely controlling. 

She's controlling, and I can't imagine how you will deal with this behavior for years. When someone wants you to revolve your life around her, and needs you right by her side at all times...that is a very controlling person.


----------



## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Sounds like she is the manipulator, and projects it on you. You're in a controlling relationship and if you were a woman, everyone would be telling to get out because your husband sounds insanely controlling.


Clever lady.

The opinion one of my my ex girlfriends support group (male and female) had of me was jealous, controlling, manipulative and abusive. An argument we had was "me shouting at her" when we shouted at each other. The quiet the day after was "me giving her the silent treatment" when she was equally quiet. The poor girl had to leave me straight away, such a nasty, nasty man.

No. She was not only manipulating me and making me out to be the manipulator, she was manipulating everyone else around her as well. The only people she didn't manipulate were the people on my side because they knew me better. I didn't know most of her support group as she kept them covert. I don't need to tell anyone how easy a young attractive woman finds it to get agreement and attention from the men around her as she plays the damsel in distress. The lesser looking feminist types loved it also as a chance to get one over on a misogynistic pig they've been overlooked by and so desire.

OP, if you have to look at yourself and ask "how am I manipulative?", it's almost certain you're the one being manipulated. Her family might think you're manipulative but do you really think they're getting both sides of the story? Not a chance. This could be a classic, mate.


----------



## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I didn't read all the comments so sorry if it's been touched on already.
She sounds incredibly immature and to be honest I think that is the issue here.
Sure communication is always key but you cannot communicate effectively with someone who does show the maturity to do that.
She also sounds controlling.
I think If those two things are addressed then maybe you might find she is not so manipulative.



Sent from my iPhone


----------



## ppppp (Sep 9, 2016)

my husband manipulates. He sees to that he does get committed in anything, he is always one step ahead of me. it might sound silly but, when this happens daily, its not silly issue. its mental torture.

he will get angry for petty , senseless and meaningless things/ or for no reason at all...

When I ask him back, to show that im not scared of him, he will do more.

1. he will shout "get out of the house" several times. if I tell him "okay , ill get out. coz you want me to"... he will say "see your getting out, even if you stay I will not mind'

See hes tricky...

2. he will appreciate and encourage me. but behind my back, he will watch my every move and tell his mother that I do things on my own without asking him...

3. if I get his permission to do something or buy something, he will buy it for me. then he will say im materialistic. and that he is not important to me.

4. I left my job and moved with him to another country. he then says I am greedy of his money. tats why I moved with him.

5. he will say that he will desert me and go away. if I ask him how can he say such a thing, he will shut his mouth and walk of.

this is being abusive and manipulative...


----------



## ppppp (Sep 9, 2016)

6. he will say if I get pregnant, it costs a lot of money. his sister's baby is sufficient. and then tell his mother that I don't want to have baby.

how tricky and senseless

7. I asked my husband's salary, he did not answer, then told his mother that I asked his bank balance.

this is also verbal abuse and manipulation..


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Sounds like she is the manipulator, and projects it on you. You're in a controlling relationship and if you were a woman, everyone would be telling to get out because your husband sounds insanely controlling.
> 
> She's controlling, and I can't imagine how you will deal with this behavior for years. When someone wants you to revolve your life around her, and needs you right by her side at all times...that is a very controlling person.


The way you deal with a controlling partner, male or female, is by not giving them control. You thoughtfully determine your limits, you respectfully say No, you calmly assert yourself. They cannot control what you do not allow. Iow, you stop handing over your power to them and then blaming them for not using that power the way you wanted (sounds like covert contracts).

And remember, she may consider him controlling and manipulative with his withdrawing. His withdrawing does not help them resolve conflict.

It really sounds like they are each feeling like the victim here. Not helpful for either one, nor for the marriage. Asserting themselves and seeking to understand the other, otoh, would be helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ppppp said:


> my husband manipulates. He sees to that he does get committed in anything, he is always one step ahead of me. it might sound silly but, when this happens daily, its not silly issue. its mental torture.
> 
> he will get angry for petty , senseless and meaningless things/ or for no reason at all...
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you are going through this. It must be challenging. 

You might want to start your own thread. We could focus on your specific issues there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Seppuku said:


> She used to be happier, but she blames circumstances, and me, for changing her. ...The problems started getting really bad when she started drinking.


How much does she drink, on average, during a day and/or week? When she takes naps, is it because she is tired from a hard week at the office, or does she get sleepy from having a few glasses of whatever? The phrase, "roller coaster ride," is one of the most common I hear when someone is dealing with a person who has a potential drinking problem. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, and you never know what personality may pop out. 

Blame. Blame is the hallmark of someone who is not taking responsibility for their own behaviors. Believe me, you do not have the power to change anyone other than yourself. Her personality began to change when she started drinking. Sounds a lot more serious than mere manipulative behavior to me.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> How much does she drink, on average, during a day and/or week? When she takes naps, is it because she is tired from a hard week at the office, or does she get sleepy from having a few glasses of whatever? The phrase, "roller coaster ride," is one of the most common I hear when someone is dealing with a person who has a potential drinking problem. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, and you never know what personality may pop out.
> 
> Blame. Blame is the hallmark of someone who is not taking responsibility for their own behaviors. Believe me, you do not have the power to change anyone other than yourself. Her personality began to change when she started drinking. Sounds a lot more serious than mere manipulative behavior to me.


Enough that I think she is addicted to it. The reason for the maps vary.

"Roller coaster ride" is a fitting description, I'd say. Except there aren't many peaks, only valleys lately.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Have you ever come across any empty or full bottles stashed in odd places? I used to go "bottle hunting" and while it didn't solve anything, I wanted to see where he was hiding his stash. After I quit looking, I'd just happen to come across bottles. Found one at the bottom of the dirty laundry hamper, in the dog's crate, and one just sitting under the kitchen sink. Apparently, he'd forgotten where he put it. 

If your wife is an alcoholic, yes, you WILL witness new levels of manipulation you didn't think possible. Projecting, blame-shifting, ranting, imagining things, etc. Don't engage. I am very familiar with being followed from room to room. I would say, "end of discussion," and he'd keep after me. Generally, I'd just get in the car and leave for several hours. When I got home, he'd be passed out. 

Many alkies start out self-medicating to ease their anxiety, depression, anger, and any other emotion(s) they wish to diminish. The problem is, the emotions become magnified. After all, if someone is depressed and starts drinking a substance that is a known depressant, they're going to actually feel worse in the long run.

I think you had better step back and see if your suspicions are correct. Like I said, if she is an alcoholic, you have a whole lot more to worry about than her manipulation. Seriously.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

No stashes, just drinking at night to "relax" etc.

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Seppuku said:


> Reasonably sure.
> 
> I have no desire to play that game anymore, haven't thought about it in a very long time, actually.
> 
> Not caring about the emotional roller coaster - how did you do it? Is there a certain frame of mind or perspective that might help, or is it just a force of will type of thing?


I am not trying to proselytize, but I honestly pray a lot.
I consider myself a very emotional and weak person. However, I also feel that I know what is right and wrong. If I am doing or saying something that I KNOW is right, than I should be OK with it no matter how much flak I get from whomever.

That is when the praying comes in. 

Let's say I ask my wife to have sex and she turns me down. What have I done wrong? Nothing. However, the anger, resentment and weakness inevitably comes. That's when I pray. I pray that God keeps me strong and enables me to not show any anger or bitterness toward my wife.

My basis always begins and ends with God. That's how I do it.


----------

