# TAM Vets, Need advice on a goodbye letter!



## ExisaWAW

Ok, many of the veteran posters here know my story. 

Recap: M for 13 wonderful yrs, W was a SAHM, 2 beautiful Ds, now 8 & 12.

We were well-off financially, lived in a huge 7,000 sqft house on acreage & from all our friend's & families perspective (& mine), we had a terrific life.

Then, 2 wks after accepting a voluntary 1 yr severance pkg at my high-paying job, I learned about her affair! Yikes (I STILL haven't found a job, btw). She claimed she hadn't been "happy" in the marriage for years, & wanted out. She wouldn't try counseling & was unfazed by my begging her to give us a try for our kids sake, etc.. 

No, I'm not forgetting to mention any of my issues, she was truly a WAW (some say at 39 she was having a MLC or suffered from GIGS, who knows). She is definitely a narcissist. She was a former actress, beautiful, used to being pined over & I put her on a pedestal throughout the marriage (I was a classic Mr. Nice Guy/ doormat).

She netted over 1/2 million $ in the D (65%, btw) & immediately dated like crazy. She now has a BF over over 9 months (our D was final 14 mos ago). She NEVER looked back.

Throughout the D & even for 9+ mos after, I pined over her, wanted her back, helped her move, settle into her new house, did repairs, etc. (sickening). 

Meanwhile, she gets closer & closer to her new BF (they may be getting married soon). 

Over the past month, I have FINALLY grew a pair & went deep NC (except for MINIMAL emails about logistics around visitation w/ the girls). I have asked her to never contact me again. NC is driving her NUTS! A couple wks ago, she sent me an off-the-wall text claiming she knows why I am "acting so strange" all-of-a-sudden. She says she had 100% proof I have been reading her text messages! WTH?! She's nuts. Maybe her BF is doing this, I dunno.

I don't reply to anything. And, after 14+ years of having a terrific relationship w/ her Mom & Sister, I decide a month ago to say goodbye to them too. They were devastated but understood that I needed to move on (they are embarrassed by her betrayal, btw). 

Having not worked in yrs, she recently passed (after 8 mos of trying) her real estate exam & has a job lined up. Just the thought of her working is comical to me, btw.

Ok, so I get yet another email from her about logistics around upcoming Summer visitation & she can't help but comment about how she knows I hate her but not to bash her on FB, etc. (she knows nothing about TAM & it's anon. anyway). I don't mention her on FB (she's blocked). She may be worried because reputation is important to a realtor, who knows.

She then reminds me that she is now a realtor & that I used to care, but that she didn't even get a congrats from me (really? I mean really? Is her narcissism that bad?? It must be.).

Well, I've made a tough decision to move out of state soon & I won't be able to see my girls very often. 

*OK, now for the advice I need.* I want to send her a final email for the record, telling her that everything that happened is on her. I never would have had to move, the girls would have had a Mom & a Dad together, raising them in a loving home, etc.

I really think the letter will give me the closure I need to move on. I certainly don't expect it to have much of any effect on her. She will undoubtedly twist it to what a bad thing I'm doing by moving away from the girls.

I'm embarrassed to admit that my disdain for her & the realization that my recovery is being hampered by being so close in proximity to her outweighs the need I have to live close to my girls.

I realize I will probably get creamed by all of you for even considering this. The way I see it, I'm no good to my girls if I'm not emotionally past all of this. Getting away & having a fresh start on life is what I need & after over a year, I realize now I can't be so close to her anymore.

The thought of having to see her re-married & moving on like nothing ever happened will destroy me. I think the letter will lay out clearly that all this happened because of her selfishness & lack of concern for me or our family. It won't be an overly mean letter, just factual.

What do you think?


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## Davelli0331

My personal opinion, and many will disagree with me, is to write two letters:

First letter, spill your guts. Fly off the handle. Tell her everything that is running through your mind, call her every nasty name you wish you would have when you found out about her affair, cuss her up one side and down the other, just completely and totally lay into about how her actions have altered your life permanently, and not for the better.

Second letter, make it as brief and perfunctory as possible. No details, no name calling, no reasons of why it's her fault, none of that. Literally shouldn't be much more than, "Please discontinue communicating with me about anything other than logistical details for our children." Nothing more.

Send her the second letter. Put the first away somewhere where you can read it when you want. 

Never, ever send that first letter to her. That first letter is just for you to get your feelings out on paper. If she's as narcissistic and heartless as your story makes her out to be, the first letter will only give her a sense of triumph that she screwed you over so hard. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that one reason she still contacts you outside of your children is to get some kind of rise out of you to feed her ego.

Sending her the first letter might make you feel a little better temporarily, but I don't know that it would give you any sense of closure, especially if she twists it to somehow make you the bad guy. You'll just feel a hollow sense of "wtf did I just do that for?"

And ask yourself this: Are you sending her this letter for closure, or are you sending her this letter bc a very, very small part of you hopes that she'll admit how terrible a person she is and how wrong she was for doing this to you?

I'm not saying that's how you feel, I'm probably way off base, but before you send her anything, make sure you're not doing it for some kind of apology or catharsis, bc if she's so shallow and narcissistic, you won't get either.

Instead, be working on yourself, and on obtaining that closure from within you.

Just my $.02, and how I would hope to react in your situation.


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## ExisaWAW

Davelli, what an awesome, awesome response!! Thank you. My comments:



Davelli0331 said:


> My personal opinion, and many will disagree with me, is to write two letters:
> 
> First letter, spill your guts. Fly off the handle. Tell her everything that is running through your mind, call her every nasty name you wish you would have when you found out about her affair, cuss her up one side and down the other, just completely and totally lay into about how her actions have altered your life permanently, and not for the better.


This is essentially what my draft looked like, minus the nasty names (just not me).



Davelli0331 said:


> Second letter, make it as brief and perfunctory as possible. No details, no name calling, no reasons of why it's her fault, none of that. Literally shouldn't be much more than, "Please discontinue communicating with me about anything other than logistical details for our children." Nothing more.


Wow, I already did this when I received the nutty communication about hacking into her phone. It was very succinct.



Davelli0331 said:


> If she's as narcissistic and heartless as your story makes her out to be, the first letter will only give her a sense of triumph that she screwed you over so hard.


Again, wow. Yes she is that much of a narc & that heartless. Yet I still pined over her. My IC told me that the most toxic combination of partners is a HSP (highly sensitive person) & a narc. 

The HSP bends over backwards to please the narc (feeding their ego) and the narc never responds in kind, because they must be the center of attention (but early in the relationship they will treat their host like gold).

The HSP will often blame themselves if their narc mate no longer responds like they used to so they heap even more love, affection, & attention on the narc hoping to get acknowledgement. The narc will light up when they get a shiny new object or hear loads of praise, keeping them "attracted" to the HSP/ host. This reminds me of how I bought bigger & bigger houses for her; bought her more & more jewelry (over $180K) & it was NEVER enough!

The cycle continues until the narc simply devalues the host & moves on (usually an affair if they are married but sometimes they simply walk away because they get bored by the attention they used to receive). These narcs are usually easy prey for people who try & seduce them with flattery, etc. They are like a moth to a flame when there's attention or praise, they want it on them! They need it (Why else would she berate me for daring not to congratulate her for passing her real estate exam. Man I must have some nerve!)!

Then, the HSP will pine away, feelings hurt; blaming themselves for not loving the narc enough. It's kind of like how some abused spouses will keep coming back to the abuser. They just can't help it; they become addicted to the abuser (and some would argue even the abuse). 




Davelli0331 said:


> In fact, I'd be willing to bet that one reason she still contacts you outside of your children is to get some kind of rise out of you to feed her ego.


Um, of course she did! Why didn't I think of that? I mean c'mon, how in the world could I hack her phone (and WHY on earth would I want to torture myself by reading amorous text messages to Mr. Wonderful, etc.?).



Davelli0331 said:


> And ask yourself this: Are you sending her this letter for closure, or are you sending her this letter bc a very, very small part of you hopes that she'll admit how terrible a person she is and how wrong she was for doing this to you?
> 
> I'm not saying that's how you feel, I'm probably way off base, but before you send her anything, make sure you're not doing it for some kind of apology or catharsis, bc if she's so shallow and narcissistic, you won't get either.


You're right, I'm busted! 

I know that a narc is incapable of remorse or admitting anything is their fault, yet I keep torturing myself by dreaming up this imaginary reconciliation where we reunite and live happily ever after. My IC told me that the only way reconciliation could ever happen is if the narc gets intense therapy/ counseling & admits they have a problem and works to solve it. And, a narc is the least likely person to ever seek counseling because it's always someone else fault! Narcs are really f'd up psychologically. 



Davelli0331 said:


> Instead, be working on yourself, and on obtaining that closure from within you.


Agreed. Thanks for aiming me in the right direction. Also, thank you for not judging me on leaving the state. A man has to know his limits, & after 14 months of trying to move on, I'm not making the progress I need to. Being far away & isolated will be a good thing for me. Who knows, I may find my way back here in a few years, completely healed. There's Skype, texting, Facetime, email, phone calls, you name it. My girls will never forget their Dad.


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## GettingBetter

EX, I would have to completely agree with Davelli. Do not do it brother. You will just feed her ego.
A short email saying you are moving out of town will be enough. Do not tell her why, wherr...as little detail as possible. 
She wants to see you broken. I know, my ex is the same. As soon as I went NC (or LC), she was all nice...but f**k them. If they cared at least one bit they would do things differently. So why the hell should we care. 
Do not do it. You know why? Because I did it. Trust me in this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingBetter

BTW, where are you moving to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331

ExisaWAW said:


> Davelli, what an awesome, awesome response!! Thank you. My comments:
> 
> This is essentially what my draft looked like, minus the nasty names (just not me).
> 
> Wow, I already did this when I received the nutty communication about hacking into her phone. It was very succinct.
> 
> Again, wow. Yes she is that much of a narc & that heartless. Yet I still pined over her. My IC told me that the most toxic combination of partners is a HSP (highly sensitive person) & a narc.
> 
> The HSP bends over backwards to please the narc (feeding their ego) and the narc never responds in kind, because they must be the center of attention (but early in the relationship they will treat their host like gold).
> 
> The HSP will often blame themselves if their narc mate no longer responds like they used to so they heap even more love, affection, & attention on the narc hoping to get acknowledgement. The narc will light up when they get a shiny new object or hear loads of praise, keeping them "attracted" to the HSP/ host. This reminds me of how I bought bigger & bigger houses for her; bought her more & more jewelry (over $180K) & it was NEVER enough!
> 
> The cycle continues until the narc simply devalues the host & moves on (usually an affair if they are married but sometimes they simply walk away because they get bored by the attention they used to receive). These narcs are usually easy prey for people who try & seduce them with flattery, etc. They are like a moth to a flame when there's attention or praise, they want it on them! They need it (Why else would she berate me for daring not to congratulate her for passing her real estate exam. Man I must have some nerve!)!
> 
> Then, the HSP will pine away, feelings hurt; blaming themselves for not loving the narc enough. It's kind of like how some abused spouses will keep coming back to the abuser. They just can't help it; they become addicted to the abuser (and some would argue even the abuse).
> 
> Um, of course she did! Why didn't I think of that? I mean c'mon, how in the world could I hack her phone (and WHY on earth would I want to torture myself by reading amorous text messages to Mr. Wonderful, etc.?).
> 
> You're right, I'm busted!
> 
> I know that a narc is incapable of remorse or admitting anything is their fault, yet I keep torturing myself by dreaming up this imaginary reconciliation where we reunite and live happily ever after. My IC told me that the only way reconciliation could ever happen is if the narc gets intense therapy/ counseling & admits they have a problem and works to solve it. And, a narc is the least likely person to ever seek counseling because it's always someone else fault! Narcs are really f'd up psychologically.
> 
> Agreed. Thanks for aiming me in the right direction. Also, thank you for not judging me on leaving the state. A man has to know his limits, & after 14 months of trying to move on, I'm not making the progress I need to. Being far away & isolated will be a good thing for me. Who knows, I may find my way back here in a few years, completely healed. There's Skype, texting, Facetime, email, phone calls, you name it. My girls will never forget their Dad.


Disclaimer: I am neither a divorce', lawyer, nor parent, so I can't offer any kind of advice or judgment regarding children.

Your posts here and in other threads sound like you're having a very difficult time disconnecting yourself from this very toxic and dysfunctional relationship with your exW. Your explanation of the HSP/Narc dynamic really describes the undercurrent that I'm getting from almost every post of yours I've read. IOW, you sound as if you're still very ensnared in her abusive personality and behaviors.

To me, that adds an extra dynamic to your situation: Not only are you dealing with this loss of someone you loved, you're dealing with what you yourself called an addiction to her abusive nature.

IMO the only way to detach from that is complete NC (except for logistical stuff w/your kids).

Personally, if moving out of state so that you can have that physical distance is what you need to disconnect from this very terrible person, then I say you're right in doing it. Granted, I do not have kids, so take that for what it's worth. OTOH, would you want your kids seeing you this way, or would you rather get your sh!t straight so your kids could see the confident and emotionally healthy dad that you probably want to be?

Aside from that, you sound like you still have a lot of work to do internally. You sound like you know that and this move is a driver to help you reach that end. Again, and this is just me, I think it's very brave of you to do something as major as move to a new state and city to try and make it on your own instead of continuing to wallow in this broken and abusive dynamic with your exW. You will not be truly happy until you get this woman out of your life to the fullest extent possible.

Again, just my $.02. Others with kids may have different and/or better perspectives and advice.


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## ExisaWAW

GettingBetter said:


> EX, I would have to completely agree with Davelli. Do not do it brother. You will just feed her ego.
> A short email saying you are moving out of town will be enough. Do not tell her why, wherr...as little detail as possible.
> She wants to see you broken. I know, my ex is the same. As soon as I went NC (or LC), she was all nice...but f**k them. If they cared at least one bit they would do things differently. So why the hell should we care.
> Do not do it. You know why? Because I did it. Trust me in this one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok GB, thanks for being the guinea pig. I will not send the letter/ email. Thanks to Davelli as well.

She keeps stating that she wishes the best for me. Yeah, right! I have to agree that she probably gets a rise out of seeing me broken. She is the envy of most of her divorced friends (most are struggling financially).

They see her with all the $$, a house she paid cash for, a paid-off $50K car, a steady BF w/ a great career, & most people know I have still not found work & I'm emotionally crushed. I would think that her narcissism is making her feel some sick satisfaction in knowing she cheated but still came out smelling like a rose after the D. Sick.

I will send her an email today letter her know which days I expect to be able to see the girls this Summer and then just inform her that the dates later in the Summer will "depend on the status of my pending relocation".


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## ExisaWAW

GettingBetter said:


> BTW, where are you moving to?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Back to The Sunshine State. I lived there before I met my xW. I loved it. I have experience as both a Rep & a Mgr in my field & I have a free place to stay until I get my feet off the ground.


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## GettingBetter

good luck my friend. You will get better. I know you will get back on your feet and be happy again and your girls will always love you. Do not forget that.
And TAM will always be here too to help you. And one day you will be helping others. Well, you already are 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ExisaWAW

Davelli0331 said:


> Your posts here and in other threads sound like you're having a very difficult time disconnecting yourself from this very toxic and dysfunctional relationship with your exW.


Correct.



Davelli0331 said:


> Your explanation of the HSP/Narc dynamic really describes the undercurrent that I'm getting from almost every post of yours I've read. IOW, you sound as if you're still very ensnared in her abusive personality and behaviors.


No. I'm no longer feeding her ego. I'm now aware of what my role was (thanks to TAM & lots of books) & I no longer play that game. I've broken the cycle now.



Davelli0331 said:


> To me, that adds an extra dynamic to your situation: Not only are you dealing with this loss of someone you loved, you're dealing with what you yourself called an addiction to her abusive nature.


If she wanted to, she could have probably led me around by the nose after the affair but she mercifully walked away. The mild "addiction" I may have will be broken by continued NC & definitely by a relocation & starting over away from her. Not sending the note is evidence that I am no longer "feeding the beast".



Davelli0331 said:


> IMO the only way to detach from that is complete NC (except for logistical stuff w/your kids).


Done.



Davelli0331 said:


> Personally, if moving out of state so that you can have that physical distance is what you need to disconnect from this very terrible person, then I say you're right in doing it. Granted, I do not have kids, so take that for what it's worth. OTOH, would you want your kids seeing you this way, or would you rather get your sh!t straight so your kids could see the confident and emotionally healthy dad that you probably want to be?


Thanks. And no, I don't want them to see me this way anymore. That's why I have to go & return to being the confident, happy Father they always knew me to be. I've tried to do that here (and failed).



Davelli0331 said:


> Aside from that, you sound like you still have a lot of work to do internally. You sound like you know that and this move is a driver to help you reach that end.


Agreed.



Davelli0331 said:


> Again, and this is just me, I think it's very brave of you to do something as major as move to a new state and city to try and make it on your own instead of continuing to wallow in this broken and abusive dynamic with your exW. You will not be truly happy until you get this woman out of your life to the fullest extent possible.


Thank you. This was not an easy decision, but a necessary one. You have given me some great advice!


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## happyman64

Ex

I have two questions for you.

Ready?
1. Why did your wife get so much money( 65%) in the settlement?

Did you not fight her? Did you think being nice to her would woo her back?

2. Do you think your wife encouraged you to take the voluntary retirement in order to get you a payday out of you?

Simply, did she set you up?

Answer those questions as best you can.

And then I will answer yours.

HM64


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## angelpixie

My ex is on disability due to mental illness, and has not been diagnosed with a personality disorder, but exhibits very strong traits of narcissism and some BPD ones as well. We had a very codependent relationship. I just got my D from him this past Valentine's Day, after he initiated a split in late 2010, just before our 10th wedding anniversary. We have one child, a 10 y.o. son. 

I understand a lot of what you're going through. I agree with the advice to write the letter, but not to send it. It will feed her, and let her know you're still there to offer at least a little of the 'supply' she needs.

Where I'm going to differ is on the issue of you leaving the state. True, you don't want your kids to see you like this. But do you want your kids living full-time with a narcissist? Because if you think her personality defects are only affecting you, you're dead wrong. My own mom very disordered, very narcissistic, and it f'd me up big time. My dad started an MLC and left just before I graduated high school, and since my mom had some health problems, I was taking care of her for years. Barely had contact with my dad. A couple times a year, maybe. My dad was needing to find himself and get healthy, too. My younger brother and I were not a priority. 

Skype, email, phone calls are not nearly the same as being there. And the parent who will be there, every day, is a narcissist, who is, by nature, emotionally abusive. Your kids are at a very important age. They're going to be hitting puberty soon, and a lot of the personality and self-esteem that carries through their lives, including their own choices of mates, is formed in these next few years. How long do you plan to be away from them before you think you'll be able to handle being around your ex on a regular basis? 

A book you might want to look at, to get an idea of what their future could conceivably be is this one: Amazon.com: Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers eBook: Karyl McBride: Kindle Store

From what you've described, your ex is not just 'a little' narcissistic, so this might give you something else to help you as you make your decision. Your kids are too young to up and leave her when life is unbearable. They're stuck. Wouldn't it be better if they had a dad around? 

If your therapist isn't getting you where you need to be 14 mos after your D, try a different therapist. Therapy doesn't work unless there's some discomfort, making the patient go through some changes. 

I don't buy that you're not strong enough. Believe me, nobody _wants_ to see the person they thought they'd be married to 'til death do us part' walk out the door, and nearly immediately pick up with someone else, while we're left behind in emotional shambles. But I just don't want you to fool yourself that what you're doing is for your girls, because frankly, it's not. It's to make it easier on you, not wanting to see your ex and her new life. I get it. It really sucks and it really hurts. I'm going through it myself. But I'll be damned if I'm turning my son over to my mentally ill ex and his posGF (who was the OW). And since I wasn't willing to have my son out of my life at all, I knew I had to get my ass straightened out even while I've been dealing on a day-to-day basis, most of the time seeing him 3-4x a week, with my ex and his now live-in gf. It's been a hell of a ride, but it's much, much better than it used to be.

I'm giving you some tough words, but I feel really strongly about leaving kids in a home with a mentally ill parent. If she's as bad as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, how do your girls escape?


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## ExisaWAW

happyman64 said:


> Ex
> 
> I have two questions for you.
> 
> Ready?
> 1. Why did your wife get so much money( 65%) in the settlement?


I've resisted putting this in the public forum until now. I have been asked this question by about a dozen ppl & I have always answered via PM. As I am "nearing the end" of this current chapter of my life, I'll go ahead & share.

During the legal proceedings, the judge ordered us not to communicate directly to one another just after we started talking to each other about an amiable settlement. I think our lawyers were getting nervous that they would be cut out of a huge payday if we settled too soon (I had to pay for her lawyer too & I paid nearly $100K to these vultures). 

Another relevant piece of background info was that it turned out my wife knew the judge!! I found this out later. I should have figured this out earlier because the judge "marked the case" so that no associate judge or any other judge could see this case but him. My lawyer thought this was very odd & asked me if I knew the judge. Btw, he was just just indicted on several criminal counts including abuse of official capacity and the AG is looking to permanently remove him from the bench (unrelated to my case). He is a rogue judge. And, his ex-finacee is my x's friend.

Ok, despite being told not to have direct communication w/ my x, I spoke to her at my youngest daughter's dance class to ask her if she would consider going to a Christian counselor to try & save our marriage. She said no.

A day later I got a knock on my door & was served. She sued me for contempt of court. Naturally, the judge threw the book at me & put me in jail (even the bailiff couldn't believe how over-the-top his ruling was). Court cameras caught her mouthing thank you to him and his smiling and winking back at her.

After two days with gang member/ murders as cell mates (including a fight), I was told I had an attorney visit. He told me if I signed the piece of paper (final divorce decree) he slid under the glass, the judge would let me out of jail. She asked for 65% of our assets, including $60K a year in child support.

I signed it immediately.



happyman64 said:


> Did you not fight her? Did you think being nice to her would woo her back?


During the court proceedings, I continued to be nice to her, hoping she would snap out of it, yes. Boy was I wrong. I realize now just how screwed up my thinking was. I even had Church friends tell me that they would no longer speak w/ me if I took her back.



happyman64 said:


> 2. Do you think your wife encouraged you to take the voluntary retirement in order to get you a payday out of you?
> 
> Simply, did she set you up?


Honestly, I don't think she's that smart. Super lucky, but not too bright. At the time, she had been cheating on me w/ the Dr. of her elderly Mom. We talked about it & she left it up to me. We always agreed I'd take a month off before I started looking because it was December & I had worked non-stop since I was 19. I later found out that she had been bad-mouthing me to all her GFs, telling them I wasn't even looking for a job, just sitting around the house in my pj's. Wow.

Please try & be as nice to me as you can. I haven't brought this stuff up before because I'm sure that reasonable ppl looking at my sitch from the outside looking in (like my Church friends) would think I was nuts to having ANYTHING to do w/ my x after everything she did to me & our girls.

Love is blind & I was in some thick fog!


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## happyman64

Thank you for the facts.

If a woman ever did to me what your wife did to you I would never speak to her again.

Not even if she was the mother of my children.

Your wife not only cheated you out of your marriage but she cheated you out of your family & livelihood.

In my mind that is ot forgivable.

Now I am not saying to hate her, why live a life filled with hate. That is just a waste of your time & energy.

But please remember, sending you to jail and coercing you to signing the agreement to use as a "get out of jail" card was kicking you while you were already down.

I figured there was more to your story.

You know what you have to do now.

As an after thought, have you ever spoken to a sharp attorney regarding the circumstances with the judge? Especially if his past actions have placed him under indictment......


HM64


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## ExisaWAW

happyman64 said:


> As an after thought, have you ever spoken to a sharp attorney regarding the circumstances with the judge? Especially if his past actions have placed him under indictment......


Prior to his indictment, I was told that no one would take my case because they all feared him. He held grudges & wasn't afraid to hold attorneys in contempt, fine them, etc. Actually, I was told the only way they would take the case is if I had naked pics of him & my xW. They didn't want to get on his bad side

If he gets convicted, I may try again.

I think I could make a case for claiming I signed the decree under duress. I would be okay with getting the 15% that I should have gotten, plus half the legal fees.


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## Shaggy

Why don't you go back after the settlement under the grounds that the judged should have recused himself, and that your were under undo pressure to comply.

Seems like a strong case.


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## Nsweet

Oh man, that sucks Ex. 

You want the best advice from Vets, right? *DO NOT SEEK CLOSURE!* Seriously, if your ex wife was a narcissist, borderline, histrionic, or psychopath.; one of the unfixable untreatable worst cases. Not only are you never going to get closure from her, you're more likely to be victimized with attempts to hoover you in for more abuse in the future. 

What I mean by this is that there are certain people who will give you closure and be willing to take responsibility for their half of the relationship not working. And then there are men and women who simply can not deal with the responsibility and kitchen sink everything they can think of on you. This blame shifting, a lot of the times you're blamed for actions and characteristics that are all hers. 

I've been through this myself with my ex wife who left me after I left the Navy for her and didn't snap at the chance to support her whole family (yeah, she wanted me to work multiple jobs to replace her father), I've got to tell you.... It still hurts. But what takes the sting out of is knowing I'm not with a woman who puts sole responsibility on me for her happiness, because that's not my job. And you know a person like this *DOES NOT CHANGE.*

If you want to send her a letter I promise you that your thoughtful gesture and attempt to seek closure is going to break your heart. Either A) She's going to completely ignore you, B) She's going to attack you for being considerate, like she's done in the past because she can't deal you treating her so kind her when she's been so abusive, and finally C) She uses your moment of sympathetic vulnerability against you to keep you at arms length and toy with you when the OM can't give her the attention she needs. 

I've talked to lots of people over the past few years who've been left after losing jobs, deaths in the family, and stillborn children, and there's something I learned.... People who betray and abandon you instead of pulling their load in marriage when the gravy train stops, are not worth closure. 

If you think about it, that's like thanking your boss for firing you so he didn't have to give you retirement benefits. You wouldn't say "No hard feelings" to that guy, would you? And rereading over your posts, not only should not send this letter.... You should stay the f*ck away from her. Women who abuse the court systems to punish you for hard feelings are dangerous individuals. Having you imprisoned for speaking with her is just the tip of the iceberg as far as her abuse can go.

And for the record.... I'm telling you not to send a letter and to stay away from her, because I made that mistake. You know what happened to me? The very woman I forgave time and time again tried to file false charges of rape and abuse against me, but I guess she had a change of heart at the last moment. How sweet of her. 

She did however show me the restraining order though, that she didn't finish filling out. And when I tried to text her to do the right thing and say "No hard feelings. I forgive you...." I got the rest of her delusional crap telling me I needed to let myself have fun again and not be so mean.... Yeah, like I'm going to take advice from the woman who made my life miserable during divorce and pushed all my buttons:rofl:

Read this article: Divorce and Break-Ups: There Is No Closure with a Narcissistic or Borderline Woman | A Shrink for Men


----------



## Shaggy

And sue her for support.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Angelpixie, thank you for your post. It's exactly the kind of post I figured I'd get. I'm going to have to think about all the great points you made.

I'll sleep on them.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Shaggy said:


> Why don't you go back after the settlement under the grounds that the judged should have recused himself, and that your were under undo pressure to comply.
> 
> Seems like a strong case.


You'd think so but I'd have to PROVE he had a relationship with her that would make him not impartial. The burden of proof would be demonstrate his need to recuse himself (i.e. the naked pics).

As for undo pressure to sign...absolutely. I would have given her 100% to get out of there.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Shaggy said:


> And sue her for support.


No grounds. She played major hardball but I'm not sure how I could end up with that unless I can somehow win custody of the girls.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Nsweet said:


> Oh man, that sucks Ex.
> 
> You want the best advice from Vets, right? *DO NOT SEEK CLOSURE!* Seriously, if your ex wife was a narcissist, borderline, histrionic, or psychopath.; one of the unfixable untreatable worst cases. Not only are you never going to get closure from her, you're more likely to be victimized with attempts to hoover you in for more abuse in the future.
> 
> What I mean by this is that there are certain people who will give you closure and be willing to take responsibility for their half of the relationship not working. And then there are men and women who simply can not deal with the responsibility and kitchen sink everything they can think of on you. This blame shifting, a lot of the times you're blamed for actions and characteristics that are all hers.
> 
> I've been through this myself with my ex wife who left me after I left the Navy for her and didn't snap at the chance to support her whole family (yeah, she wanted me to work multiple jobs to replace her father), I've got to tell you.... It still hurts. But what takes the sting out of is knowing I'm not with a woman who puts sole responsibility on me for her happiness, because that's not my job. And you know a person like this *DOES NOT CHANGE.*
> 
> If you want to send her a letter I promise you that your thoughtful gesture and attempt to seek closure is going to break your heart. Either A) She's going to completely ignore you, B) She's going to attack you for being considerate, like she's done in the past because she can't deal you treating her so kind her when she's been so abusive, and finally C) She uses your moment of sympathetic vulnerability against you to keep you at arms length and toy with you when the OM can't give her the attention she needs.
> 
> I've talked to lots of people over the past few years who've been left after losing jobs, deaths in the family, and stillborn children, and there's something I learned.... People who betray and abandon you instead of pulling their load in marriage when the gravy train stops, are not worth closure.
> 
> If you think about it, that's like thanking your boss for firing you so he didn't have to give you retirement benefits. You wouldn't say "No hard feelings" to that guy, would you? And rereading over your posts, not only should not send this letter.... You should stay the f*ck away from her. Women who abuse the court systems to punish you for hard feelings are dangerous individuals. Having you imprisoned for speaking with her is just the tip of the iceberg as far as her abuse can go.
> 
> And for the record.... I'm telling you not to send a letter and to stay away from her, because I made that mistake. You know what happened to me? The very woman I forgave time and time again tried to file false charges of rape and abuse against me, but I guess she had a change of heart at the last moment. How sweet of her.
> 
> She did however show me the restraining order though, that she didn't finish filling out. And when I tried to text her to do the right thing and say "No hard feelings. I forgive you...." I got the rest of her delusional crap telling me I needed to let myself have fun again and not be so mean.... Yeah, like I'm going to take advice from the woman who made my life miserable during divorce and pushed all my buttons:rofl:
> 
> Read this article: Divorce and Break-Ups: There Is No Closure with a Narcissistic or Borderline Woman | A Shrink for Men


Nsweet, wow, great article. Very eye-opening. I have been given a huge gift now that she she thinks I have somehow been reading her text messages & that's why I'm finally ignoring her (she's nuts). 

My exiting in total silence is the only way. I'm convinced of it now.

Man, you lived through hell! 

Thanks for your post.


----------



## Nsweet

ExisaWAW said:


> Nsweet, wow, great article. Very eye-opening. I have been given a huge gift now that she she thinks I have somehow been reading her text messages & that's why I'm finally ignoring her (she's nuts).
> 
> My exiting in total silence is the only way. I'm convinced of it now.
> 
> Man, you lived through hell!
> 
> Thanks for your post.


Hell is all perspective. 

Divorce was tough, but it's nothing compared to the emotional terrorism I went through being married to that woman. I mean when you're not allowed raise your voice, show anger, masturbate, or express any of your own needs or emotions... Is life without a woman like that really that bad? 

If you read some of the stories on shrink4men, you see a lot of the same relationship red flags talked about over and over. The ones who've been through decades of abuse with a woman like mine of your ex wife talk about all the things they were never allowed to do, and even how their new girlfriends are so shocked they're so giving and well behaved, almost like men who've had good husband skills beaten into them.

Here's another really good site: AT ANY COST: Saving your Life after Loving a Borderline.


----------



## Davelli0331

I know this is (ex)spouse bashing, but your exW sounds evil.

However you choose to do it and work it with your children, you need this woman out of your life, like yesterday.


----------



## angelpixie

I agree, but don't strand your children with her.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Angelpixie, my decision to possibly move away from my girls is far more weighty than whether or not to send a goodbye letter (I've decided not to send it, btw) to my undeserving narc xW. After sleeping on it, I can make some comments but I still have mixed feelings (I probably always will).



angelpixie said:


> My ex is on disability due to mental illness, and has not been diagnosed with a personality disorder, but exhibits very strong traits of narcissism and some BPD ones as well. We had a very codependent relationship. I just got my D from him this past Valentine's Day, after he initiated a split in late 2010, just before our 10th wedding anniversary. We have one child, a 10 y.o. son.


So sorry about your sitch. I'll have to read up on your other particulars like was there adultery, etc. but it sure looks like you've lived through a lot.



angelpixie said:


> I understand a lot of what you're going through. I agree with the advice to write the letter, but not to send it. It will feed her, and let her know you're still there to offer at least a little of the 'supply' she needs


Yeah, I've decided not to send it, thanks.



angelpixie said:


> Where I'm going to differ is on the issue of you leaving the state. True, you don't want your kids to see you like this. But do you want your kids living full-time with a narcissist? Because if you think her personality defects are only affecting you, you're dead wrong. My own mom very disordered, very narcissistic, and it f'd me up big time. My dad started an MLC and left just before I graduated high school, and since my mom had some health problems, I was taking care of her for years. Barely had contact with my dad. A couple times a year, maybe. My dad was needing to find himself and get healthy, too. My younger brother and I were not a priority.


I'm so sorry to hear what you went through with your parents when you were younger, only to marry someone with similar issues. You mention that you & your bro were not a priority to your Dad.

As for me, I will do my best to make my girls a priority. However, I have one life. I deserve to be happy too. I want to be the confident, self-assured man I used to be. Maybe that makes me selfish at some level or less than a good parent, I dunno. It's funny how selfish/ quilty I feel when I finally decide to put myself first for a change.



angelpixie said:


> Skype, email, phone calls are not nearly the same as being there. And the parent who will be there, every day, is a narcissist, who is, by nature, emotionally abusive. Your kids are at a very important age. They're going to be hitting puberty soon, and a lot of the personality and self-esteem that carries through their lives, including their own choices of mates, is formed in these next few years.


I know. I get it. This is why this decision is so hard for me. Even the time I see them now doesn't seem to have much of an impact. My 12 yr old is talking back & being disrespectful to me & her Sister all the time. By the time I drop them back over their mom's I make a little progress. The next time I see her, it's even worse. 

Let's be clear. Standard visitation for the non-custodial parent means they are with me ~20% of the time at best. Spending the majority of that time disciplining them is no fun for anyone. You could argue that is my responsibility as a parent & you'd be right. 

Enter the guilt of the non-custodial parent with a dysfunctional x-spouse. It's no wonder why a lot of non-custodial parents end up being Disneyland-Dad types. It's more fun to simply have tons of fun activities planned than to sit your children down & talk with them about their lives, help them with their homework, & dish out needed discipline & tough love when warranted.

So, for me, if I'm being honest, I'm not around them enough now to make much of an impact anyway. Btw, this is yet another reason why ppl should really try everything b4 getting a D. Single parenting is very challenging & I firmly believe the kids get short-changed BIG TIME. Each parent has their own issues that end up being more of a priority and the kids get less & less attention, turning to friends & society to raise them & to form their beliefs, etc.

Working together, under the same roof, we could support each others attempts at parenting & even keep the other spouse from going a little overboard on occasion. From what I gather, there is no parenting going on now (aside from my xW screaming at the girls; man, that NEVER happened when we were married) . My xW is fixated on her BF, her new real estate "career" & if she gets any downtime she cracks open her 2nd bottle of wine for the day (no kidding) & watches "her shows" off the DVR while the girls are off, doing their own thing in their rooms.

I could scream myself. Yes, we watched some TV together (with the kids) in the old days, but Dad would take an active interest by making sure their homework was done, & then I graded it & made sure they re-did the wrong answers (mom couldn't figure it out) & then I would PLAY WITH THEM and/ or take them to our theater and play Wii or watch a movie (mom NEVER came along). 

So yes, I realize the next few years are important for them, but all their years are important. It's horrible that for those of us who hung in there & tried to save the marriage because we cared about our kids/ families, that we end up bearing even more guilt/ responsibility in the aftermath. I mean, let's be real. My xW is loving it right now. She could care less that the kids aren't getting much attention from her. She HATED having to sacrifice her time for them!! During our last family vacation in 2010, she complained to me that she wished we didn't have to bring the kids along...WTF!? I couldn't believe my ears. Looking back, I now see a lot of the signs of her dysfunction.

It sickens me to realize that I may leave them alone with her, but I will have a much healthier relationship with them if I am healed, making money, and psychologically strong enough to be there for them emotionally, even if it's over Skype, the phone etc. for now.



angelpixie said:


> How long do you plan to be away from them before you think you'll be able to handle being around your ex on a regular basis


It's hard to say. I would guess a year or two to heal & get the career back on track, then hopefully I could try to get a transfer (or switch companies) & then get back to TX. 



angelpixie said:


> A book you might want to look at, to get an idea of what their future could conceivably be is this one: Amazon.com: Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers eBook: Karyl McBride: Kindle Store


I'm an avid reader. I will add this to my list, thanks.



angelpixie said:


> From what you've described, your ex is not just 'a little' narcissistic, so this might give you something else to help you as you make your decision. Your kids are too young to up and leave her when life is unbearable. They're stuck. Wouldn't it be better if they had a dad around


Again, this is tough. I really think I may have to take a step back in order to take a couple of steps fwd at a later time. And, like I already said, I'm not having that big of an impact now anyway. If things get too bad, they can come live with me. After 12, the courts tend to consider the kids wishes more.



angelpixie said:


> If your therapist isn't getting you where you need to be 14 mos after your D, try a different therapist. Therapy doesn't work unless there's some discomfort, making the patient go through some changes


Ok, don't get me started on therapists. Yes, they have been helpful (I've gone through a couple) but I know what I need to DO now. There's nothing wrong with talking about things, but at some point you have to go out there, face the world, & carry on. I really don't want to be in counseling forever. I honestly think it gets to be a bit of a unneeded crutch after awhile. This site has been as good as my therapy.



angelpixie said:


> I don't buy that you're not strong enough. Believe me, nobody _wants_ to see the person they thought they'd be married to 'til death do us part' walk out the door, and nearly immediately pick up with someone else, while we're left behind in emotional shambles. But I just don't want you to fool yourself that what you're doing is for your girls, because frankly, it's not. It's to make it easier on you, not wanting to see your ex and her new life. I get it. It really sucks and it really hurts. I'm going through it myself. But I'll be damned if I'm turning my son over to my mentally ill ex and his posGF (who was the OW). And since I wasn't willing to have my son out of my life at all, I knew I had to get my ass straightened out even while I've been dealing on a day-to-day basis, most of the time seeing him 3-4x a week, with my ex and his now live-in gf. It's been a hell of a ride, but it's much, much better than it used to be.


It would actually be easier to stay than to leave at some levels. Getting better HAS to be my focus. Shaking a narc is not easy. I've tried it for over a year. And, I'm not fooling myself. Moving to force myself to start over is for me & my girls both. If I stay gone forever or choose not to have a relationship with them anymore, shame on me. I'm not that guy. They will want a relationship with me & I will do the best I can. I'm learning towards moving.



angelpixie said:


> I'm giving you some tough words, but I feel really strongly about leaving kids in a home with a mentally ill parent. If she's as bad as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, how do your girls escape?


Look, I respect your opinion but we all have to choose our own paths in life. I never wanted to be faced with these decisions but my xW's terrible decisions put us here. I'm doing the best I can and will pray for the best. What's interesting is that the xW is not outwardly mentally ill to most untrained eyes. That's the thing, we are all dysfunctional at some level, each one of us. It is my hope that the foundation I have laid with my girls will hold them over until I am better equipped to be a stronger parental influence in their lives.

I really appreciate your perspective & I hope your sitch continues to improve!


----------



## ExisaWAW

Nsweet said:


> Here's another really good site: AT ANY COST: Saving your Life after Loving a Borderline.


Holy Moly! Great article/ site, thanks!


----------



## happyman64

Ex

A lot of good advice so far.

I think the common consensus is to put your Ex in the rearview mirror for good.

Your children are another matter.

But no matter what you need to get a good job to support yourself and support them.

And if that means a move to where employment is then you know where I stand.

I am contemplating relocating to find a better job. And leaving my family in NY.

So i understand tough decisions.

Keep working on your Ex.

You are heading in the right direction. Of that I have no doubt.

Hm64


----------



## ExisaWAW

happyman64 said:


> Ex
> 
> A lot of good advice so far.


Agreed.



happyman64 said:


> I think the common consensus is to put your Ex in the rearview mirror for good.


Absolutely.



happyman64 said:


> Your children are another matter.
> 
> But no matter what you need to get a good job to support yourself and support them.
> 
> And if that means a move to where employment is then you know where I stand.


Yep. It's not an easy decision but after all the praying I've done, I feel God whispering to me to move as well.



happyman64 said:


> I am contemplating relocating to find a better job. And leaving my family in NY.
> 
> So i understand tough decisions.


Best of luck. Keep us posted. The economy really does suck. The last time I was in the job market, I had multiple offers at sizable increases in pay.

Now I'm getting zero offers (few interviews), & the pay is, on average, at 40% less than I used to make for similar work.



happyman64 said:


> Keep working on your Ex.


I assume you meant to type "Keep working on you, Ex"

If so, yes, yes, yes. I MUST clear everything else off my plate & focus on me first. I can worry about everything else afterwards!



happyman64 said:


> You are heading in the right direction. Of that I have no doubt.


Thanks, man. That means a lot to me. Now to actually get the job, etc.


----------



## angelpixie

EWAW - I read your response carefully. What you're saying about your girls and their mom only reinforces what I said and believe. You are only seeing a portion of what they're dealing with, I guarantee you. If you were a powerless 12-year-old, your life torn apart, spending at least 80% of your time with a drunken mom who makes it clear she wishes you weren't around, then you find out your dad, who you had been closer to when your family was intact, is planning on moving to another state -- wouldn't you be pissed at the world? Take a poll of parents raising tween-age kids and the majority will tell you this is a tough age anyway, intact family or single parent. The courts may take the kids' words a little more at age 12, but a.) your ex has already shown she has a 'way' with the court system in your area (and I'm sure will not want anything like a child wanting to leave her to besmirch her reputation, which, for a narc, is paramount), and b.) will your child want to pick up and leave her school and friends (possibly the only steady thing in her life by this point) to live with a father who, from what she can see, left her? They are kids. You picking up and moving is not going to be understood as something you're doing for them, even if mom wasn't a drunken, crazy-assed, b!tch. Considering that she is one...yeah, they'll understand your leaving even less. 

I understand you want to be a good provider and have a good-paying job. The money doesn't mean as much to them.

I understand you have only one life and you deserve to be happy. It's the same for your girls. What happens in their lives now will impact them into adulthood. The emotional and psychological impact is way, way more important than any financial one. Your girls didn't ask to be brought into this world. You and your ex chose to have them. They deserve better than this. 

I know your ex made your life hell. I think your situation sounds horrific, I really do. But you still have a lot more resources as an adult than your girls have. 

If you are considering fighting the papers you signed under duress, and to bring to light the things shown on the court camera between the judge and your ex, etc., etc., how can you do that from far away? It makes me think you won't fight. And if you are, why not fight to redo the divorce agreement, and fight for 50/50 custody? If you're so sure the courts will listen to a 12 year old, then have your 12 year old ask that she and her sister spend 1/2 time with you. You get more time with them, they get less time with her. Even if you're working for a job that doesn't pay what you're used to, I'm sure it's enough to meet your _needs_. Divorce often causes us to change our standard of living, and reevaluate what's important in our lives. 

You have far more impact on your girls than you're telling yourself. Parenting isn't easy, ever. We routinely sacrifice for our kids. If you move away, what are you sacrificing for them? You can criticize your ex for not wanting your kids around, but she'll still be there, won't she? You know the damage of emotional abuse. If you move away and make lots of money, does it magically erase the pain of her abuse? Of course not. Do you really think bringing your girls to Fla at some unspecified time in the future, and handing them material goods will magically undo the effects of her emotional abuse of them? I go to a weekly support group for survivors of abusive relationships. Not one of the members had happy, supportive, emotionally healthy home lives. Every member has abandonment and emotional and/or physical abuse in her past. Not one member has ever mentioned not having enough material possessions as being a major factor in her emotional and psychological development. It was the treatment she received from the people in her life that was the major factor. 

I'm not going to post here anymore, because I think your mind is made up to leave. I just hope that perhaps someone else might see what I'm saying and it might have an impact on them and their kids. I'm not being dramatic. Your girls have been on my mind all day, and this really breaks my heart.


----------



## ExisaWAW

angelpixie said:


> EWAW - I read your response carefully. What you're saying about your girls and their mom only reinforces what I said and believe. You are only seeing a portion of what they're dealing with, I guarantee you. If you were a powerless 12-year-old, your life torn apart, spending at least 80% of your time with a drunken mom who makes it clear she wishes you weren't around, then you find out your dad, who you had been closer to when your family was intact, is planning on moving to another state -- wouldn't you be pissed at the world? Take a poll of parents raising tween-age kids and the majority will tell you this is a tough age anyway, intact family or single parent. The courts may take the kids' words a little more at age 12, but a.) your ex has already shown she has a 'way' with the court system in your area (and I'm sure will not want anything like a child wanting to leave her to besmirch her reputation, which, for a narc, is paramount), and b.) will your child want to pick up and leave her school and friends (possibly the only steady thing in her life by this point) to live with a father who, from what she can see, left her? They are kids. You picking up and moving is not going to be understood as something you're doing for them, even if mom wasn't a drunken, crazy-assed, b!tch. Considering that she is one...yeah, they'll understand your leaving even less.
> 
> I understand you want to be a good provider and have a good-paying job. The money doesn't mean as much to them.
> 
> I understand you have only one life and you deserve to be happy. It's the same for your girls. What happens in their lives now will impact them into adulthood. The emotional and psychological impact is way, way more important than any financial one. Your girls didn't ask to be brought into this world. You and your ex chose to have them. They deserve better than this.
> 
> I know your ex made your life hell. I think your situation sounds horrific, I really do. But you still have a lot more resources as an adult than your girls have.
> 
> If you are considering fighting the papers you signed under duress, and to bring to light the things shown on the court camera between the judge and your ex, etc., etc., how can you do that from far away? It makes me think you won't fight. And if you are, why not fight to redo the divorce agreement, and fight for 50/50 custody? If you're so sure the courts will listen to a 12 year old, then have your 12 year old ask that she and her sister spend 1/2 time with you. You get more time with them, they get less time with her. Even if you're working for a job that doesn't pay what you're used to, I'm sure it's enough to meet your _needs_. Divorce often causes us to change our standard of living, and reevaluate what's important in our lives.
> 
> You have far more impact on your girls than you're telling yourself. Parenting isn't easy, ever. We routinely sacrifice for our kids. If you move away, what are you sacrificing for them? You can criticize your ex for not wanting your kids around, but she'll still be there, won't she? You know the damage of emotional abuse. If you move away and make lots of money, does it magically erase the pain of her abuse? Of course not. Do you really think bringing your girls to Fla at some unspecified time in the future, and handing them material goods will magically undo the effects of her emotional abuse of them? I go to a weekly support group for survivors of abusive relationships. Not one of the members had happy, supportive, emotionally healthy home lives. Every member has abandonment and emotional and/or physical abuse in her past. Not one member has ever mentioned not having enough material possessions as being a major factor in her emotional and psychological development. It was the treatment she received from the people in her life that was the major factor.
> 
> I'm not going to post here anymore, because I think your mind is made up to leave. I just hope that perhaps someone else might see what I'm saying and it might have an impact on them and their kids. I'm not being dramatic. Your girls have been on my mind all day, and this really breaks my heart.


Thank you so much for your concern! I truly feel that you only want the best for my girls. I think you might be a little too fatalistic though. My moving away for a couple of years is not abandonment. I can move back just as easily. I have to get better. 

A man has to know his limitations. I'm not getting better here. I'm not as strong as you may think. I'm risking my mental & physical health by being here. I have ALWAYS been an extremely healthy person but I had 5 seizures in the 8 months following the D. Doctors told me they were all stress related. 

She's taken away my beautiful home, my money, my children, & my happiness, and severely damaged my ability to place my trust in other human beings but I'll be damned if I let her take away my life! If you think it will be tough for my girls if I don't see them for awhile, imagine how they'd feel if I was dead!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I guess my .02 isn't going to change your mind either. My ex was diagnosed narcissistic. No way in hell would I let him have her full time. He was turning our daughter into him - enmeshing their personalities, alienating her from me and making her rebellious and narcissistic to a degree herself.

If you can find any way with the help of your IC, STAY. Fathers are important to kids. Parents who have their heads on straight are VERY important. If you do move, I hope you insist on having all summer long with them, winter and spring breaks, too.

Bottom line, you'll have to go back to court anyway - might as well make it worth while.

I'm sorry but I think you'll grow to regret this when your kids refuse to see you, write to you, you aren't told about/invited to graduations, weddings, birth of grandchildren...

I understand you are struggling with these feelings toward your ex but they WILL FADE over time. But the pain of losing your kids will only INCREASE over time.

Don't set yourself up for regrets.


----------



## warlock07

So the plan is to move away for only a couple of years ? Have you discussed it with your kids ? Talk to them and ask them what they want.


----------



## ExisaWAW

warlock07 said:


> So the plan is to move away for only a couple of years ? Have you discussed it with your kids ? Talk to them and ask them what they want.


The plan was always to stay here, get another job in my field, put the marriage, the betrayal, the xW behind me, & live a wonderful life being the best Dad to my girls that I could be.

Call me selfish if you want, but I have to get better & I'm not. I mean, c'mon, I've given this 14 months!! My money is nearly gone, & I have NO other family. I know an elderly couple who've been my friends for 19 years who have a beach house they never use. That will cut down on expenses so I can find even a basic job at any salary (it would appear that $200k is no longer attainable for me in my field in this economy). And, being physically away from my xW will accelerate my healing.

I don't want to end up living under a bridge! Two years ago I made $200k/ yr, lived in a 7,000 sgft house, & was worth $1.1 million! 

AngelPixie & EnjoliWoman are entitled to their opinions, but I can't worry about the "what ifs" anymore, right now I have to put myself first...finally.

Yes, I hope to get back into my field or tread water until the economy improves in a "regular job" and continue to search in my field for TX or FL opportunities. I will always be looking to get back to TX. If it's less than a couple years, all the better. 


As for speaking to my girls, I have been dropping hints over the last couple months that I may end up having to move. Tears always followed so I know how they feel.

I had lunch at school w/ my 8 yr old yesterday & she was crushed when I told her (we both cried & held each other). I have several calls into my 12 yr. old & she hasn't called back. This is typical behavior for her, she's already a mini version of my xW. She was busy on Instragram and Facetiming her friends and didn't have time for me. I hope to speak with her today.


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## angelpixie

ExisaWAW said:


> Call me *selfish* if you want, but I have to get better & I'm not. I mean, c'mon, I've given this 14 months!! I don't want to end up living under a bridge! Two years ago I made $200k/ yr, lived in a 7,000 sgft house, & was worth $1.1 million!
> 
> AngelPixie & EnjoliWoman are entitled to their opinions, but I can't worry about the "what ifs" anymore, right now I have to *put myself first*...finally.
> 
> As for speaking to my girls, I have been dropping hints over the last couple months that I may end up having to move. *Tears always followed so I know how they feel.*
> 
> *I had lunch at school w/ my 8 yr old yesterday & she was crushed when I told her *(we both cried & held each other). I have several calls into my 12 yr. old & she hasn't called back. This is typical behavior for her, *she's already a mini version of my xW*. She was busy on Instragram and Facetiming her friends and didn't have time for me. I hope to speak with her today.


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## ExisaWAW

In all the time I've been on these forums, this is probably the first time I've been this upset with anyone. I get your point. I always did. Why do you think this is so hard for me.

After an entire life of putting others' needs ahead of mine, when I'm down & out & my back is against the wall, I shouldn't have to feel guilty for taking a step back so I can take two forward.

I'm now much better at recognizing abusive behavior from others. I spent 14 years bending over backwards & being a doormat for everyone. Now I'm 48 (49 later in the month), unemployed, & nearly broke. Feel free to go away and hassle someone else. I've been kicked when I was down too often in my life.

It's me time.


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## lifeistooshort

I admittedly have not read all of the posts but personally I wouldn't send her anything. It would give her what she wants, more attention, and by denying her that attention you've actually got the emotional upper hand. She's probably always had you as her backup, figuring she could go back to you if her new life didn't work out, and the nc has messed that up. That's why it's driving her crazy; I could care less if my ex contacts me for anything besides our kids because I don't want him back under any circumstances. Also, some women have a sort of self importance syndrome in that they don't want their ex but want to think he's forever pining over them because they are SO special.
I know you feel you must move for your sanity, but keep in mind that you will give your ex much more control of your daughters perception of you. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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