# Who initiates Sex?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Informal question for TAM. Male 44 here, W 44. Met 25 yrs ago, married (mostly) for almost 20.

I always initiate sex. On a rare occasion, she will hint that I need to initiate tonight. Perhaps I just happen to "hit" at the same time she is thinking, or she is just waiting for me to start. No problems with fulfillment, I just wish she would take the initiative sometime.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We both do about equally, pretty much every day for almost 16 years.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Me, 100% of the time. Gets really fvcking annoying. Just once I'd like to be pursued...I don't even know what that's like.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Me, for the past decade, so when I stopped, we stopped. Unimaginative, boring, repetitive, chore like, unfulfilling and zero passion. I gave it up completely 3 months a go.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Been married 44+ years, known her for 48+ years. One of the really interesting things is that after a while, you both start to know what each other is saying by body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, or other things. I can initiate sex with my wife, just by the way I get ready for bed without saying a word. She can initiate sex, by the way she closes her book and turns off the lights. 

Most people who complain about their spouse not initiating are really saying that their feelings are hurt by past rejection. My advice is to let go of any anger you may have over past rejection and forgive her. Then work on yourself so you can provide her with unconditional love. If you can lead by example so that she can feel comfortable enough to provide you with unconditional love, it really doesn't matter who initiates.

Good luck.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

I was in that situation too, and to a point still am. The only time she initiates lately is when I become visibly unhappy and becomes concerned with why I look gloomy, figures it out, and initiates.
What has been working for me in the past year.
1) I straight up talked to her about it. Trying to be non-confrontational, positive, and constructive, I simply told her that I'd like for us to have sex more often. I asked her why she didn't want to and tried to work with that.
In my case she says she just isn't ever horny anymore, and I explained to her that I'm not horny either, but I still want to have sex because I know we both really enjoy it. She also had her own issues which kept her from feeling sexy or other medical reasons which were legitimate that I understood.
2) It wasn't my intent but I got depressed one night (or maybe over a couple of days?) which never ever happens and she poked me trying to figure out why because she gets concerned when I'm sad (because I never am.) I explained that I don't feel desired and that I've realized she's just not attracted to me anymore because she shows absolutely no interested in me sexually... ever. See, earlier in our marriage she did and this change is only in the last 5 years. I went on to ask if she'd be more interested in me if I was back in better shape and more attractive. It made her very upset to learn that I felt this way and was aliment that it was all in my head, that she is attracted to me, and does desire me, to which I pointed out that her actions don't reflect that. For a while she started showing affection toward me all of the time and making it clear to me when she was interested in sex. I don't know if it was to prove me wrong or if she realized that she had been ignoring me and rectified her behavior.

OK, so I'm not suggesting you throw a big depressed act. For all I know that wouldn't even work in your case. What I am suggesting is find a way to express to her how it makes you feel when she doesn't desire you. If she cares, she's going to want to do whatever it takes to let you know to step up her end of the relationship. In my case it really seemed like it was all one-sided. I was pursuing her for affection and never getting anything other than reciprocation at the time in response.

Also, having that "sit down" separately and straight-up asking her what it's going to take to reignite the flame and spice up the sex life again and then be quiet until she comes up with an answer.
The answer may be romance. The answer may be alcohol (my wife says get her drunk which pisses me off, but whatever.) Or it could be something else. Push her for a solution.

I know it's easier said than done. I went a long time unable to find a way to even approach the subject since my wife never talks about her emotions, our relationship, or sex, so there was no way to bring it up. One day I just manned up and told her I wanted to talk about this and made her talk to me about it. I guess my attitude was that I don't care anymore and either it works, or it doesn't and if it doesn't then at least I know I'm not wanted.

It helps to have a "thing." For a while I could text her "Margaritas later?" and she always said "yes." That meant we'd have a margarita and have sex. Lately it's a bottle of wine. Or straight up text her "I can't stop thinking about you an want you" which usually works. Sometimes I'll tell her "we should play later." Those are all code for sex.
What I don't like is that it's only me ever initiating. She doesn't ever outright reject me, but I do get a very unenthusiastic or somewhat negative response when she doesn't want to (and yes it hurts my feelings.)


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Informal question for TAM. Male 44 here, W 44. Met 25 yrs ago, married (mostly) for almost 20.
> 
> I always initiate sex. On a rare occasion, she will hint that I need to initiate tonight. Perhaps I just happen to "hit" at the same time she is thinking, or she is just waiting for me to start. No problems with fulfillment, I just wish she would take the initiative sometime.


As a woman with (I think) a pretty low sex drive:

1. Have you told her you wish she would initiate sometimes?

2. Understand that "in general" men have much more of a sex drive than women because of their testosterone levels. 

That doesn't mean they never want sex, but if you're not having it, she's probably not thinking about it. I'd probably have to go a month or two without sex before I started to crave it. Actually, since menopause, maybe 6 months...

However, I will initiate with my H sometimes because I know he doesn't always want to be the one to initiate. Plus, I can initiate when it's convenient for me (like at bedtime) so he's happy for a few days and doesn't initiate out of the blue with me when I'm in the middle of work or concentrating on other things and sex is the furthest thing from my mind and I have to either force myself to do something I don't instantly feel like or hurt his feelings.

Anyhow, I would flat out ask her why she never initiates and if she would sometimes.

Also, if there are issues in the relationship women are very fast to turn off to sex because it's much more emotional for them. Men seem to enjoy sex even if they aren't that happy with their spouse. You might ask her if she's happy and really listen to the answer.

Good luck!


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

woundedwarrior said:


> Me, for the past decade, so when I stopped, we stopped. Unimaginative, boring, repetitive, chore like, unfulfilling and zero passion. I gave it up completely 3 months a go.


yup, that's my story too. except it's been about 7 years, and now we're in the process of separating.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> As a woman with (I think) a pretty low sex drive:
> 
> 1. Have you told her you wish she would initiate sometimes?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately a lot of women seem to hold onto that notion, when there are a lot of men for whom that is completely false. I am one of them. There have been a few threads around here lately, this one included , that expose the damage caused by holding onto the conventional wisdom over what one's partner actually feels.

My wife is one who rarely overtly, jump my bones, initiates. It is frustrating at times, especially in the context of the issue we have regarding her lack of expression of finding me attractive.

That said, we have frequent, high quality sex, and she never rejects me. She is always a willing and actively engaged partner, so no feelings of duty sex.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> As a woman with (I think) a pretty low sex drive:
> 
> 1. Have you told her you wish she would initiate sometimes?
> 
> ...


Great insightful feedback.

Here's something I don't understand, though.
I want to have sex even when I have no sex drive. Yes, after a week and a half I may hit a point where I'm horny and have to have sex but I can go a week without any kind of sex drive or libido, but I still want to have sex just because I like having sex. It's not necessarily hormone driven (or I don't think it is.)

My wife enjoys the hell out of sex. I'd argue even more than I do. I know she absolutely loves it and makes comments afterward about how badly she needed that and how incredible it was, yet we wouldn't have done it had I not initiated it and she could have probably gone a month more.
Do women simply forget how much the like it in between if they don't have hormones driving them?
Do you not see your husband and just want to hook up, regardless of libido?

These are the mysteries I'm grappling with.
Either way, thank you for sharing. I've heard my wife say somewhat similar things to you.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> Informal question for TAM. Male 44 here, W 44. Met 25 yrs ago, married (mostly) for almost 20.
> 
> I always initiate sex. On a rare occasion, she will hint that I need to initiate tonight. Perhaps I just happen to "hit" at the same time she is thinking, or she is just waiting for me to start. No problems with fulfillment, I just wish she would take the initiative sometime.


Your question is far too simplistic, given your (and your wife's) past of multiple affairs.

You both are rug-sweeping past incidences...who initiates at this point is irrelevant until you both DEAL with your marital transgressions.

Based on my reading of all your past threads, your wife seems "checked out". That's why she doesn't initiate.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I used to initiate a lot more, but it got to a point where I felt like I needed to go through a mental checklist throughout the day, prioritizing items that would increase or decrease the odds of sex based on a variety of factors (my wife's mood, how the kids were behaving, etc...). The list just seemed to get longer and longer, and got to the point where it just wasn't mentally worth it for me to bother with, so not doing anything became the better option (less mentally draining, just accept nothing was going to happen and move on, sad I know). Really it came down to the difference where no matter how my day was I was always in the mood for sex (hey, it is a feel good stress reliever), whereas I felt with my wife if there was any slight "glitch" in the day for her, nothing was going to happen. 

Now things are somewhat getting better but still a work in progress. When we do go a stretch without sex it usually hits me harder in that I become somewhat distant/detached from my wife, so it usually takes her initiating to get things started again (as she did yesterday after going through a long stretch).


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

I know what you mean, Ellis. In my case my wife has to be "happy." That seems like her only requirement, actually. But how often does the day get ruined by something which just ditches you chances. And again I have to get mine a little buzzed or drunk so if she's not in the mood to drink, then no dice.
Sex in marriage just shouldn't be work. Sometimes I think it would be easier to get laid if I were single which just defies logic.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

flipflops said:


> I still can't believe I stuck around for 21 1/2 years. It's too bad I didn't snap out of it sooner.


You can't beat yourself up. Everyone has their own path, their road to self knowledge.

 Sure,_ maybe_ you could have figured it all out sooner, but maybe then you wouldn't have learned what you learned. And no one will be able to say you didn't try to make it work. Also, change is scary, it was hard for me to get over that hurdle.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

JamesTKirk said:


> Great insightful feedback.
> 
> Here's something I don't understand, though.
> I want to have sex even when I have no sex drive. Yes, after a week and a half I may hit a point where I'm horny and have to have sex but I can go a week without any kind of sex drive or libido, but I still want to have sex just because I like having sex. It's not necessarily hormone driven (or I don't think it is.)
> ...


I look at my appetite for sex like cheesecake.

I LOVE cheesecake. LOVE IT.

But if I'm really full, I simply do not want any. The idea of eating more food, no matter how tasty, is actually repulsive to me.

If I'm not full, but not hungry, and someone sticks a piece of cheesecake in front of me - sure, I'll take a bite or two. Why not? It tastes good! But I would not go seek it out. My H on the other hand - if he knows it's in the house, hunger is irrelevant, he likes it and he will not rest until it's gone.

Now if I'm good and hungry I will go out of my way for food and if there's an option of cheesecake on the table that tastes best to me, that's what I'm going to have.

Assuming there are not marital issues killing her appetite, I think the sex appetites are probably just different. When she's not hungry, she's not thinking "Hey, there's sex in the other room that I could go have just because it's fun and feels good." Whereas you may not be feeling it like a drive of "needing it now!" but you're thinking - "hell, it's right there, let's have some!"

BTW - when you say your wife loves sex... Maybe she does and maybe she doesn't really. I always thank my husband for sex too. That doesn't necessarily mean I would not have rather been reading a good book... It just means I love him and care about his ego. I know it's immature/bad communication on my part, but unless he asks me, I feel I can only say so much about what I'd like sexually that I'm not getting without crushing him. I've hinted, made suggestions, and flat out said "I wish you would..." in the past and he's pointedly ignored my requests. I enjoy sex with him but I'd enjoy, and want, it a whole lot more with some changes. That doesn't stop me from thanking him and saying that was great. (Then getting back to my book...)


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Unfortunately a lot of women seem to hold onto that notion, when there are a lot of men for whom that is completely false. I am one of them. There have been a few threads around here lately, this one included , that expose the damage caused by holding onto the conventional wisdom over what one's partner actually feels.


That is true. I think generalizations hold ...in general. But certainly not for each individual. I'm actually heartened to hear you say that because I've been around a lot of men in my life - was in the military, grew up hanging out with older brother & his friends, etc. and - not all, but definitely the majority - of the men seemed to be fine with the idea of having sex with a woman who was hot even if they didn't like her, and their spouse/girlfriend any time, even if they were upset over other things.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'll eventually start complaining that it's been too long since the last time and then he'll make some half-assed attempt at initiating either later that day or the next. Lately he'll wait until a weekend morning for his sad initiation moves at but at that point I'm so upset I don't even want to. I want sex just not if he's going to put it off. I'd rather not have it at all than feel like it's such an inconvenience for him.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> That is true. I think generalizations hold ...in general. But certainly not for each individual. I'm actually heartened to hear you say that because I've been around a lot of men in my life - was in the military, grew up hanging out with older brother & his friends, etc. and - not all, but definitely the majority - of the men seemed to be fine with the idea of having sex with a woman who was hot even if they didn't like her, and their spouse/girlfriend any time, even if they were upset over other things.


This, I think is a contributing factor, if not the main underlying reason for the issues my wife and I have. She is having to unlearn a life time of stereotypes, and unfortunately, personal experience with men. I am very different in virtually every way than any man she has ever known, or been in a relationship with. It's been a slow process.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

My wife never initiates. I've told her several times that her lame excuses for rejecting when I initiate aren't cutting it. I'm looking forward to rejecting her when she finally does initiate out of fear that I'm checking out.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Spitfire said:


> My wife never initiates. I've told her several times that her lame excuses for rejecting when I initiate aren't cutting it. I'm looking forward to rejecting her when she finally does initiate out of fear that I'm checking out.


I can see that you are hurting but this is not a good plan. 
If you are done, just be done and leave. Don't plan on revenge. She will not look at it and realize that it hurts and she shouldn't reject you. 

She will just feel like you don't give a crap so she won't either. Or you only want sex when you want it and don't care about what she wants, or he rejected me so now he can't ever b*tch at me about doing it to him, or a dozen other things that can go through her mind. 

Instead, if you do want to fix things, you could show her how you want her to respond to initiation and then give positive feedback to encourage her to do it more often. Tell her how much it meant to you.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Spitfire said:


> My wife never initiates. I've told her several times that her lame excuses for rejecting when I initiate aren't cutting it. I'm looking forward to rejecting her when she finally does initiate out of fear that I'm checking out.


Do you know why she makes up lame excuses to reject you? (Is there something physically wrong with her or is she not happy in the relationship, or is she just indifferent to your needs?)

I have a low sex drive but I don't understand happily married women turning their husbands down frequently unless they have a physical problem. If I can't work up the spirit for full blow sex, I can always at least give him a blow job.

Except when he walks up to me out of the blue and grabs at my breasts or crotch. That is such a turn off I just have to get away from him. (But once I explained that to him he pretty much stopped that approach.)


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm done analyzing the situation. In 6 1/2 years when my youngest is 18 I'll divorce her. Most of our problems are money related. Her solution is to work 12 hours per week and spend 2,000 minutes per month on the phone.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

First 8 years we both did. Then he stopped and I was the only one initiating. Then he started rejecting me. We are recently divorced.

I am female and since the first time I had sex at age 17 I have always wanted it. I never lost my drive even during and after pregnancies. I was always ON and still am. I imagine I am approaching the menopause time now and I still want it. Seems my drive has only increased with each decade.

Funny that I have a friend who is 36 and she lost her drive when she became pregnant with child #1. That child is now 8. She rarely has sex with her husband. She says it's like taking out the trash. She only does it because she believes that as a wife she should be doing it. She says she has no interest and has no enjoyment during - even if she does have an O which she usually does. She said she only gives him enough to where she thinks it will keep him from looking elsewhere. Although my ex husband recently told me that he is afraid he will cheat because he is not happy with their sex life. The rest of the relationship is good.

Sad, just sooo sad.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I'd say for the past 20 years that I have always initiated, but now that I'm learning a few things, looking back I am beginning to question everything I thought I knew...

Today I was harassing my wife mildly and she told me to back off and I made this cheesy sic-fi laser sound with my voice and told her that I immediately flipped off and that my erection was gone (did not have one to begin with), and she freaked out! She started grabbing my wiener and throwing her boobs in my face, and I told her there was nothing she could do that I was "off" and that it would be months before I was back on. She cranked up the heat until my erection was standing proud, and I looked at her and asked if this had been the game she has played with me for he past twenty years??? 

OMG, she was BUSTED!!!!!


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I do, pretty much every time. She is always "tired" or "stressed out" or some such excuse.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She does. I don't allow myself to be vulnerable.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> Funny that I have a friend who is 36 and she lost her drive when she became pregnant with child #1. That child is now 8. She rarely has sex with her husband. She says it's like taking out the trash. She only does it because she believes that as a wife she should be doing it. She says she has no interest and has no enjoyment during - even if she does have an O which she usually does. She said she only gives him enough to where she thinks it will keep him from looking elsewhere. Although my ex husband recently told me that he is afraid he will cheat because he is not happy with their sex life. The rest of the relationship is good.
> 
> Sad, just sooo sad.


Wow that is heartbreaking, very sad - for both of them 

Me on the other hand, I'm always up for a romp in the sheets - never too tired, never too stressed, never too angry, lol, with the exception of the first couple of days of my period Mr Frusdil can have me any time he likes


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## Kolie123 (Oct 8, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Informal question for TAM. Male 44 here, W 44. Met 25 yrs ago, married (mostly) for almost 20.
> 
> I always initiate sex. On a rare occasion, she will hint that I need to initiate tonight. Perhaps I just happen to "hit" at the same time she is thinking, or she is just waiting for me to start. No problems with fulfillment, I just wish she would take the initiative sometime.


In my experience, married to my husband 11 yrs, when there is strife within the marriage or I am feeling insecure with the relationship I notice I rarely initiate sex. 

When I'm feeling safe and secure within the marriage my sex drive goes through the roof and I initiate 2-3 times a week.


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## Kolie123 (Oct 8, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> Spitfire said:
> 
> 
> > My wife never initiates. I've told her several times that her lame excuses for rejecting when I initiate aren't cutting it. I'm looking forward to rejecting her when she finally does initiate out of fear that I'm checking out.
> ...


Working wife my husband does that same shyt grrrr or even worse come up behind me and he'll stick his finger up my arse just for shyts and giggles cuz he knows how much I hate it!!


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

Not once in 14 years of marriage has my wife ever initiated sex. It has always been up to me to get things going. And now after more than 4 years of constant and total rejection (not one single round of sex), I'm not sure that I would even recognize what it would look like if she did try to initiate. It would be something completely foreign and alien in our relationship.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Kolie123 said:


> Working wife my husband does that same shyt grrrr or *even worse come up behind me and he'll stick his finger up my arse* just for shyts and giggles cuz he knows how much I hate it!!


Seriously? And you stay married to this person? :surprise:


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Most of the time my husband has initiated (I never rejected him). Over the years his libido has declined and mine has increased so I started initiating. He has rejected me at times saying he is tired and isn't feeling well and then we do it another time. I know when he says he isn't feeling well then it's true. It still kind of effects me.

I see a lot of posts from husbands complaining that their wives don't initiate. I have to say that growing up I was always taught that you should always wait until the boy makes the first move. Girls who make the first move were thought of as easy and promiscuous. I don't think I'm alone in being told that. I know we all grown up and married but that thinking can carry over to adulthood.


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## NorCalMan (Dec 14, 2011)

Dragunov said:


> Not once in 14 years of marriage has my wife ever initiated sex. It has always been up to me to get things going. And now after more than 4 years of constant and total rejection (not one single round of sex), I'm not sure that I would even recognize what it would look like if she did try to initiate. It would be something completely foreign and alien in our relationship.


Same for me only differences - 35 years of marriage and over 10 years of rejection. Finally you just give up trying.:frown2:


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

It's about equal, I might initiate a little more. If he thinks there's a decent chance I'll say no, he usually won't initiate... He'll just drop little hints and wait for me to do it. But I'm okay with that.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

It is common for women to have responsive desire (assuming they have any desire at all, of course). That is, they only get interested in sex after their partner initiates.

Since I know this, I don't mind initiating... although I would also not mind at all if my wife initiated!


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Personal said:


> Yesterday evening after our last child went to bed my wife lifted her skirt to show me she wasn't wearing any underwear and asked if I would like to go for a drive to have some sex in her work car. Anyway I think it can be a lot of fun when my wife asks for sex.


Ah you lucky baaaaaastud! :grin2:
My wife is in her late 30s and I can only dream of this. She is always full of excuses... tired from work, tired from cooking, sleepy, not in mood, something I did, something I didn't do... she'll cook something up any time and blame me for it.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

when it used to happen, me. always. often requiring 30 - 180 minutes of foreplay, relaxation, begging.... with a success rate of about 25-33%. She almost always finished first - often because I was tired or desensitised by then. And mornings were almost always out (adding more to the time and tiredness factors). with my ex-wife it used to require to bring home a purchased bribe otherwise zero interest.

a girlfriend I had, occasionally used to "initiate", although the more accurate term would be demand. I was supposed to ready to go, immediately, if she wanted it. that mostly worked in that relationship, until work got too stressful or she had had a bad day. Apparently real men don't turn down sex, and real men always take no for an answer, even if it's not verbalised.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I once read from a female poster on a forum, that a woman only wants sex when she wants something else. 

In the case of the poster, she said "she had sex with OM to keep him from leaving her or seeing other women".

I think what is most troubling for many men is that they have a belief/fear that their wife could turn her sex drive on for some other person. 

Let me think how often has my W initiated, once or twice in 20 + years of marriage. 

During one era in our marriage I thought she was waking me up in my sleep to have sex. But later she told me I would play with her at night, and she just had sex with me so I would stop and she could go back to sleep. 

Tamat


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

TAMAT said:


> I once read from a female poster on a forum, that a woman only wants sex when she wants something else.
> 
> In the case of the poster, she said "she had sex with OM to keep him from leaving her or seeing other women".


That woman was wrong. 
Tons and tons of women want sex because they want sex. They like sex. Some want sex and like sex more than their male partners. 

I had gotten a stat about that a while ago, something like 80% of women want sex as much or more than their husbands. 

Most women want sex, don't let TAM make you think otherwise. :smile2:


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That woman was wrong.
> Tons and tons of women want sex because they want sex. They like sex. Some want sex and like sex more than their male partners.
> 
> I had gotten a stat about that a while ago, something like 80% of women want sex as much or more than their husbands.
> ...


I'm sure most women want sex.

But not necessarily with their husbands.

See the popularity of "50 Shades of Grey" for an example of that.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Curious, for those here who have commented that you have basically given up and not had sex in years, why bother staying married/with that person?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I do all the initiating, otherwise its 1x month. 2x month if I initiate.

I used to initiate all the time, but since she is LD, I stopped long ago.

If we have sex now, she initiates. If I strongly initiate once in a month, then she goes with it.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Curious, for those here who have commented that you have basically given up and not had sex in years, why bother staying married/with that person?


The kids/stability for them
lack of money/outside support
hope/promises of change
opposition about separation/divorce
fear of his inattentive parenting style/shared custody


But it wasn't no sex. Minimal sex. Mr.68 could always be counted on to want it on the few times a year i didn't. or when he would come home after only a few beers. or once every 6-8 weeks sober. In the very beginning it was closer to 3 times a month and devolved from there pretty quickly to 15 times a year or so and held. And he could more often be counted on to want a stand alone blow job, and just not mention that he was planning on taking a nap after and owing me one.

We're separated now, no more IOU's for me! lol 

but i imagine kids and/ or money is a common theme. Also i've read cyclical change a few times. Eg: have a talk, gets better for a little while, goes back to no sex, repeat.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Curious, for those here who have commented that you have basically given up and not had sex in years, why bother staying married/with that person?


commitment.

so she has LD and both are busy or in different places...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

I previously said commitment etc. Just thinking about it, that probably means different things to a woman than to other men.

Why stay in a basically sexless marriage...

I actually _care_ about my partner. I enjoy her smile, her laugh. I value her skills, and want to see her succeed.
We have been through a lot together, side by side, I've helped her up, done jobs and favors for her, built a home from the best I could contribute and what she was willing to lend to the job when she felt like it.
I've put up with a lot of her crap, and she's occasionally be there for me to.

I don't spend my day looking at what is most fun for me, or what I want.

I spend my day slogging away at a job I hate, in a system I resent, so that the two of us, and our children can eat/shelter and hopefully do better tomorrow - it might not sound like much, but I'm the one who gets that responsibility and no-one else can be trusted to ensure it happens. When I get a break or a spare dollar, it is her that I want to share it with - thus it is the teammate, partner, that gives validation for that sacrifice, and that's the only joy I get from the world when her (or his, for guys into guys) that matters a damn in this world. What I would give, what I _have_ given, to hear the words "Wow you really did an awesome job, I feel so glad we got this far together." (not so happy with the usual thing I get told, about celebrities, super rich stars, fashion magazine, big corporation projects, or what her richer friends are doing....... but communicating that is treated as resentment and jealousy, explaining why I should feel sad about her communication "makes her uncomfortable" and "mansplaining"... so just shutup, push it down, move on)

She is the one who I have trusted will all my secrets, that I have been open, transparent and open with - I can't just plus total trust and honesty in anyone I meet. Only to someone who is special, someone who is willing to honor me, as I show them and allow myself to be vulnerable. That trust isn't just a safe that gets opened and closed at a whim - and it's honest stuff, the real feels, not stories told to impress or to show off; it's the real me. Including fears, damage, and weaknesses. You don't just walk away from that level of honesty and openness.

She was the one I picked because I wanted to share things and my life with her. she seemed interested and entertained by things that I was doing. Genuine interest, someone I could actually grow and share with, someone who if I said "Isn't the reboot Trek better than the old" would have something decent to say - Or was into the same sound (so I don't have to run from the house when she plays her favourite opera concertos. Or knew her carb from her fuel pump. Life isn't about comparisons to others, about who has the brand name rifle, or the latest gadget, there's always more - it's about sharing those experiences with your bestie. Sometmes it's just compatibility, I don't like cooking (I can but I don't enjoy routine cooking) but I dated a chef at a time when I could afford some of the best ingredients it made for a good combination - my personal trainer, she loves to make and prep food for her family, the organizing and value is something she actually enjoys; without that her family just couldn't be the vibrant participaters they are.

We share some similar values. I'm into spirituality and magic (occult) practices in a big way, as well as science and electronics. Such things reduces the number of others who would share similar ethics (such as an individuals personal freedom vs "proper place" and "church standing"). It's a big problem if I ended up getting a list of orders, or "a proper man/husband would do/be <#insert whatever>", or that expectations of a "happy home" involved dinner on the table at 5:30p. If my partner thought my spirituality was evil, or "religious mumbo jumbo". Finding someone on a near wavelength to your beliefs, and who will discuss as a peer is a big challenge - I value my partners who can be on that wavelength AND still keep me on my toes.

And then there's the money thing. It's always a challenge because most woman and a lot of men have some really sick ideas about money. Finding someone not like my ex-wife who filled up joint credit cards behind my back and used her position at the bank to draw money from the family house loan and demanded to have the best hire purchase that we could pay, is useful. Sadly unlike others they need to realise that most men don't get favors and sexually based bonuses/discounts/freebies/extensions or hired because the owner likes the guys boobs or butt - and that the old boys network is about how much of a future earner and contacts person you are, which excludes 99.9999% of guys especially if there partner isn't willing to work the social gauntlet...because to get those jobs and money takes that buy in. The rest of us are really just fighting to keep things together, not get fired, and find a competitive strategy to get a promotion, while living a life. So if I have someone that doesn't destroy the budget, actually has a clue about money not falling from the money tree, or best actually is willing to work the social shark gauntlet, she's a keeper.

If she scores on that scale, and looks better than my bloke best mates, why would I walk away just on sex?
I looked for someone I want to enjoy my life with, someone whose success I can enjoy, whose happiness meant more than my own, that I gain compersion with, why walk away from that just to enjoy getting my **** off.
Sure I have a human body and it makes physical needs and craves emotional love but the commitment, the trust, the togetherness, doesn't that have value over just getting "my own happy"?

(PS and can put up with my quirky sense of humor ...  ... Lol, the post button says "Quick Reply"


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> The kids/stability for them
> lack of money/outside support
> hope/promises of change
> opposition about separation/divorce
> ...


Agreed, money and kids are probably a big reason. Sorry to hear that you are separated now but hopefully it is for the better.



spotthedeaddog said:


> If she scores on that scale, and looks better than my bloke best mates, why would I walk away just on sex?
> I looked for someone I want to enjoy my life with, someone whose success I can enjoy, whose happiness meant more than my own, that I gain compersion with, why walk away from that just to enjoy getting my **** off.
> Sure I have a human body and it makes physical needs and craves emotional love but the commitment, the trust, the togetherness, doesn't that have value over just getting "my own happy"?
> )


Curious, why does how she score on a scale vs. your blokes mates matter?

I do understand everyone has a different view on the importance of sex in a relationship. You are saying you value making her happy over your own happiness, and I can understand that, but shouldn't the same apply to her? If you have physical and emotional needs should that not be important for her to make sure you are happy as well?

Don't get me wrong, I am not looking at sex as purely a physical thing or the wife/SO as nothing more than an object. I love my wife dearly, but with kids and life we were definitely headed down a bad path in terms of sex (or lack of). You can clearly see the difference in us (both in how we interact with each other, our moods, etc...) when we are having sex regularly vs not. It was getting to the point where it wasn't healthy for either of us (as a married couple, parents, etc...) but something we have been working on t o get back in the right direction.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Agreed, money and kids are probably a big reason. Sorry to hear that you are separated now but hopefully it is for the better.


It is for the better. Unlike spotthedeaddog (and Mrs.), we are wildly incompatible. We got married because we were dating and got pregnant, not because of a calculated assessment of how good we are as a couple. We want different things, we like different things, we have different religious values. The only thing that connects us is the kids. If we were spending time together and having sex, we might have had more of a bond to break. That the relationship has devolved into business partners makes it much easier on the emotional/feelings side of deciding it's over. 

I gave it my best shot, so i have no regrets.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I initiate sex more often than my husband does, although he has started to up the amount of times he initiates in the past several months.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

A lot has changed since I joined here.

My husband now initiates more... however it's not the complete story. There's a more open constant between us that's become part of our dynamic. This includes the way we emotionally connect as well as the flirtation, playfulness and such. Either one of us may initiate sex and/or intimacy, more often it does seem to be him, but the expression of desire is something we share in.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

Personal said:


> In my experience women want sex because they want sex. When my wife wants sex that's all she gets, likewise when I want sex that's all I get. I don't offer my wife other things in exchange for that sex and my wife doesn't ask for other things either when she gets sex.
> 
> Sex isn't something I take from my wife, nor is it something that is given to me by my wife either, sex is simply something we both want and enjoy. So we share it together, she gets off and I get off which works well for the both of us since sex isn't a means to an end since it is itself an end.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. Sex is not a reward, nor is it a bribe, or bargaining chip. If I ever felt it was held against or used against me in any such way, I'd be pretty upset. That includes "withholding" sex out of spite. Not that you go have sex while angry and fighting though I've done that in past relationships and it was actually quite fun. But withholding as an ultimatum is not acceptable.
It's almost like a commodity that can only be share among spouses and has no value (for begging, trading, negotiating, bargaining, etc.)

I don't know how, when, or specifically why we had this conversation (and I think we have more than once) but even before we were married we agreed that it was our responsibility to give each other sex. We have a never say "no" to each other policy/agreement. Bottom line, she will have sex with me (almost) any reasonable time I ask for it, just for asking for it whether she really wants to or not.

It makes sense to me because in my mind sex is the one thing you cannot go outside the marriage for. Saying no is dangerously close to condoning or encouraging cheating or an affair or at least the beginning of the road to divorce.

That doesn't mean I get sex anytime or as frequently as I want it. But assuming relatively favorable conditions, I can simply ask or initiate to get the ball rolling. Therin sort of lies the problem. I hate having to ask. And I don't even really ask (or beg) I flirt and suggest (sometimes directly with clear hints) in which case she becomes available to me. I suppose I should be thankful I have what I have.


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## Tino28 (Sep 25, 2015)

Scary the way some women on here talk about sex it's not just the act. I know from my perspective I also face these challenges I don't just want to "bang my wife" I need that more, i need intimency.


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