# Ice Queen



## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Hello all. I’ve been lurking for quite a while and the advice I see on here is top notch, so here I go.

My Background: I am divorced from a ten year marriage with two young boys who now live out of state. 36 years old. After my recovery period, I lost a bunch of weight and started to read the PUA blogs. I took the red pill so to speak – realizing at the same time that a lot of commenters on these sites are spergy nerds, I took the lessons that made sense to me and applied them with my current girlfriend. Oh boy, did they work! I was not out to use game to pump and dump, but to land a quality girl to reproduce with and raise a family – and most importantly to keep her and myself happy and sexually fulfilled. I am not about to go into another sexless relationship.

Her Background: She is separated from her husband and is raising a six year old daughter. She is educated and well grounded – very easy to be around. Her career is helping people.

After dating for a few months, we discuss – very civilized and rationally – having more children. I explain very matter-of-factly that I want more children and that I have what she wants (security, read money) and she has what I want (a womb for making my babies)….romantic devil aren’t I! I hold nothing back and we openly discuss all manner of issues.

We move in together…

One night it dawns on me that she is not very good in bed – I couldn’t get hard and she got frustrated instead of stimulating me. I thought this was cute at first because it must be that she is inexperienced! 

I explained to her how it made me feel, and suggested that she try X and Y on me because that really got me going. To which, she complied as best she could. I’m not going to lie, her bj’s are terrible. 

So, this incident got me thinking about why I couldn’t get hard – the first time ever. At first no stimulation was needed because she was new to me. I noticed the first time I kissed her that she provided ABSOLUTELY no feedback i.e. sighing or heavy breathing or grinding – anything. The first sex experience was me doing everything under the sun while she received. I was quite happy with this arrangement at first. Then, after I couldn’t get hard, it dawned on me why. She made no noise, made very little grinding, and will not hardly touch me, and would not reciprocate. She orgasms EVERY time, and assures me that no one has ever done that for her.

I spoke to her about every one of these issues and told her I needed feedback. Since then, she has really tried. Honestly, she has tried everything I ask her to do – nothing freaky, I just like hot vanilla sex. I told her constructively that she needs to work on her bj’s and handjobs. All of which she made a great attempt at for a few weeks.

She’s four months pregnant………

I am now the father figure for her daughter…..

Only lately have I noticed that she never touches me when she sleeps, or is getting ready to fall asleep. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want her all over me, but it is odd to me that she never snuggles with me in the middle of the night – that should be an instinct for a woman in love, IMO.

I have now spoken with her at least twice about my need for good oral sex, touching, and intimacy. After these conversations, it gets better – then reverts back to no touching, me initiating all sex, me giving dynamite oral for her pleasure. Never once have I come in her mouth.

Last night she started complaining about a few things that I do that annoy her. I swatted the fitness tests down heartily. She laughed and said “You don’t let me get away with anything!” 
Today I am left with sadness. Sadness that I am tied down with a 31 year old single mom, 25 pounds overweight that will not respond with sustained effort to my reasonable requests; that is poor in the sack; that thinks she can ***** about the toilet seat. 

I wish she could read this, as I am about to leave.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi pilotguy,
Thanks for posting. I have to say that your post made me feel sad - because there's an innocent little baby now in this mix. I don't want to bash you for potentially putting things in the wrong order, since I am unaware when your revelation about your girlfriend happened (prior to pregnancy or not.) In either case, it is all water under the bridge right now, and I would expect that at four months pregnant your girlfriend needs to have your support, no matter what decision you eventually come to.

You know I was watching Dancing with the Stars last night (yea, I admit it) and was thinking that some people are just born with natural rhythm and some not. Some of those who are not can eventually learn to dance, but there's likely to be some who really do have two left feet no matter how hard they try. So, how willing is your girlfriend to try to repair your relationship? And how willing are you?


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

at 4 months pregnant, and she's at least making solid attempts at making you happy that way, I'd say you could be alot worse off. Your priority now is the pregnancy, whether or not you decide to stay in the long run.

There are all kinds of books about how to give bjs.. how to get one into your S.O.'s hands is another question, however.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You got what you set out for, a womb. What are you complaining about? Your whole post screams entitlement.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Is she still married to her husband?


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You got what you set out for, a womb. What are you complaining about? Your whole post screams entitlement.


Exactly!
And not mention the most irresponsible as it can possibly get.
Oh great, now there's another fatherless child on the way.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

River1977 said:


> Exactly!
> And not mention the most irresponsible as it can possibly get.
> Oh great, now there's another fatherless child on the way.


He accuses her of being a gold digger, wants her as a baby factory, says that she is bad in bed, moans that she won't touch him when he wants, says she is 25 lbs overweight all while being 4 months pregnant. Now he threatens to leave. 

Do her a favor dude, do it. Go back to following Mystery's advice. Or Tucker Max.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Use some shaming - that'll teach me!

I AM entitled to a good sexual relationship. 

A book on bj's - nice suggestion, going to Amazon now.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

MGirl said:


> Is she still married to her husband?


Yes. They have had no contact for at least a year as far as I know. She is a procrastinator - not just in this area.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Use some shaming - that'll teach me!
> 
> I AM entitled to a good sexual relationship.
> 
> A book on bj's - nice suggestion, going to Amazon now.


I'm not shaming you. I was posting the Cliff Notes version of what you wrote. Are you ashamed of your behavior?


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Hi pilotguy,
> Thanks for posting. I have to say that your post made me feel sad - because there's an innocent little baby now in this mix. I don't want to bash you for potentially putting things in the wrong order, since I am unaware when your revelation about your girlfriend happened (prior to pregnancy or not.) In either case, it is all water under the bridge right now, and I would expect that at four months pregnant your girlfriend needs to have your support, no matter what decision you eventually come to.
> 
> You know I was watching Dancing with the Stars last night (yea, I admit it) and was thinking that some people are just born with natural rhythm and some not. Some of those who are not can eventually learn to dance, but there's likely to be some who really do have two left feet no matter how hard they try. So, how willing is your girlfriend to try to repair your relationship? And how willing are you?


Thank you, I am very willing to work on it. My revelation happened after she was pregnant. Each time I bring it up, she is verbally responsive to changing - but the proof is in the pudding,and after a short period she defaults to this condition.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'm not shaming you. I was posting the Cliff Notes version of what you wrote. Are you ashamed of your behavior?


No, not at all.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

As a matter of fact, I feel that she is the entitled princess. Just giving me what I ask for until she can resume minimal duties.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

I am very supportive of her, and am excited to be a dad once again. I am not a flighty person; but let me ask you this - once the child is brought into the world do you think my position will improve or decline further?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

pilotguy said:


> Her Background: She is separated from her husband and is raising a six year old daughter. She is educated and well grounded – very easy to be around. Her career is helping people.


So, do you know the reason why she and her husband are separating?



pilotguy said:


> After dating for a few months, we discuss – very civilized and rationally – having more children. I explain very matter-of-factly that I want more children and that I have what she wants (security, read money) and she has what I want (a womb for making my babies)….romantic devil aren’t I! I hold nothing back and we openly discuss all manner of issues.


I get a little confused here. Because you state that you wanted a "womb for making your babies", but when you get that you only complain about the sex.



pilotguy said:


> One night it dawns on me that she is not very good in bed – I couldn’t get hard and she got frustrated instead of stimulating me. I thought this was cute at first because it must be that she is inexperienced!


Are you sure that she isn't inexperienced? Was her husband her first? What was her marriage like?



pilotguy said:


> I explained to her how it made me feel, and suggested that she try X and Y on me because that really got me going. To which, she complied as best she could. I’m not going to lie, her bj’s are terrible.


When she tries her best, do you give positive reinforcement back to her? Are you attentive to her outside the bedroom? Do you flirt with her and make her feel like the most special woman in the world?



pilotguy said:


> So, this incident got me thinking about why I couldn’t get hard – the first time ever. At first no stimulation was needed because she was new to me. I noticed the first time I kissed her that she provided ABSOLUTELY no feedback i.e. sighing or heavy breathing or grinding – anything. The first sex experience was me doing everything under the sun while she received. I was quite happy with this arrangement at first. Then, after I couldn’t get hard, it dawned on me why. She made no noise, made very little grinding, and will not hardly touch me, and would not reciprocate. She orgasms EVERY time, and assures me that no one has ever done that for her.


Not all people are super affectionate or will make a lot of noise while in bed. She does seem a little passive - is she worried about making noise because of her daughter? Do you give a lot of positive encouragement and re-inforcement during the act?



pilotguy said:


> I spoke to her about every one of these issues and told her I needed feedback. Since then, she has really tried. Honestly, she has tried everything I ask her to do – nothing freaky, I just like hot vanilla sex. I told her constructively that she needs to work on her bj’s and handjobs. All of which she made a great attempt at for a few weeks.


So what happens after those few weeks? Could she be feeling like you are criticizing her or that these talks somehow make her feel less than capable so she doesn't want to try anymore? She seems like she really wants to please you, but she may need some really positive re-inforcement from you. She may also be the type who is just more submissive in bed, and she may made need a little less talking and more leading from you in the bedroom.

I hope that you will continue to give her the support that she needs right now. Being pregnant is not easy, especially in the situation she is currently in.


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## daison (Mar 3, 2011)

It would be extremely hard for me to be excited about having sex if I knew the guy I was with was using me for my womb.

Try showing a little love and compassion. You might be surprised what she comes back with. It's hard to make a judgment via an online post, but you come across somewhat...sociopathic? To me it's like there is no emotion at all in your post. Hopefully this isn't the case and you have some degree of love/respect for her....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Have you asked her point blank why she argree and then stops? Apparently according to some of the advice from the men in the mens club you may not be following through in the correct way. You have to make a mutually satisfying sexual relationship. Why would she believe that sex is not mutual? Before you talk to her again, get some advice from some of the men in the mens club. MEM is good and Big bad wolf and Conrad they have slightly different approaches but simular message 

You have to adjust the advice to suit you personality and your wifes as well. What is her love language and yours? How about the quality of your relationship out side of the bedroom. Do you have shared hobbies and activities. 

first things first, you have to be certain that you are being honest about the relationship. Your post sounds kind of one sided. It may be that you are not including all of the story. You seem to have a list of expectations but i dont get tge sense of you wife as an individual and how you feel about her emotionally. Your description of her is almost totally unflattering. What did you find emotionally alluring that made you want to be in a relationship with her?

It is obvious she is overweight by twenty pounds and you feel stuck with her and she is not responsive sexually and she is a disappointment. She probably senses what you think and may not feel loved and cherished. . Does that ring true? Have you made the mistake of being self- focused in the relationship? How are you emotionally, ate you warm or cold? Do you ever move over and hug her during the night? 

Look at the pattern of this relationship and the pattern of other long term relationships? Are tgere any comonalities? Think of what she might say if she were to freely communicate about the relationship. Try to put your self in her shoes and see if you may be doing something that may be turning her off. 

I am not blaming this situation on you. There is definately a problem and you laid out what the problems are from you view point I wondered what they are from her view point. At any rate what you are doing is not working time to change up. But you need to carefully consider how to go about it. 

How about your manner of dress and hair style are you maintaining grooming and appearance as well as possible. Are you at all myterious or always at her beck and call? First consider the quality of the relationship and how you negotiate conflict. Was she ever passionate? Does she still work and does she plan on working after the baby is born. Is you financial condition way above her's and was she very pretty when you first got involved with her? You mentioned her weight, that is a weigh issue. Somehow your attitude about weight may be having an effect. 

I may be wrong but I thought if a man was sexually turned on that he automatically got hard and needed no help. If i had to work at getting my husband hard i eould feel that he did not find me attactive sexually. Just a thought. Do you think she finds the necessity to work at making you hard a blow to her self- esteem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

thanks for the thoughtful reply. i reduce situations to absurdity because i like to cut to the heart of the matter.

we have a great relationship outside of this - she has great supportive friends that are all happily married.

i am not her first, as best i can tell i am the 7th or 8th. i've never asked because its simply not important to me - other than making sure she is not a hooker.

the title of this post "ice queen" is what she told me her husband called her. i think she is quite aware of what she is doing.

i am very fit, make good money, stable job, handsome, and i am looking for a long term commitment. i believe i am in high demand, and i know i could find someone who has it "all" but i don't want that, i want her to come around.

the weight issue - she used to start stories with the prefix "when i was young and hot". i asked her to stop doing that because it made me feel that she spent her youth and beauty on others, while i get the leftovers. before she started using this prefix for some stories, i was perfectly content that she was not perfect. now i want the young and hot version.

as for loved and cherished - i send a few love letters, made a homemade animated valentine, send dirty texts, flirt, etc. i dont think that this is an issue as she has mentioned how thoughtful i am

i think she's lazy and thinks she has hooked me so no further work is required than the absolute minimum.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

_Why would she believe that sex is not mutual? _

i asked this very question - she said that alot of guys only care about pleasing the woman. i looked her in the eye and said bullsh!t

i brought this up in the context of " i learned how to give you a rocking orgasm, why would you not learn what turns me on?"


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> thanks for the thoughtful reply. i reduce situations to absurdity because i like to cut to the heart of the matter.
> 
> we have a great relationship outside of this - she has great supportive friends that are all happily married.
> 
> ...


She is 31. Hardly old enough to be planning her funeral. You get the leftovers? I wouldn't want to screw somebody who viewed me as fat, ugly, old, entitled, lazy and leftovers.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

_Does she still work and does she plan on working after the baby is born._

she was planning on not working after the baby was born. after this issue came up, i asked her to keep working after maternity leave. i really felt that she was using me and not returning my affection. she agreed to keep working.

i make more than enough to support this family.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> She is 31. Hardly old enough to be planning her funeral. You get the leftovers? I wouldn't want to screw somebody who viewed me as fat, ugly, old, entitled, lazy and leftovers.


i said that's how it made me feel, not what i actually think. how would you like it if your overweight balding husband told you about his time in college when he was buff with a thick head of hair. would that increase or decrease your attraction to him?

btw i am not insinuating your husband is either fat or bald, just using is as an example.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> i said that's how it made me feel, not what i actually think. how would you like it if your overweight balding husband told you about his time in college when he was buff with a thick head of hair. would that increase or decrease your attraction to him?
> 
> btw i am not insinuating your husband is either fat or bald, just using is as an example.


But see, it's what you choose to do with that that matters. You could look at her and wish for something else, or you could see her for the person you fell in love with. I know that sounds Polyanna like, trust me. The way you paint her, it sounds like you view her as a throw away and that is not sexy at all. She is also pregnant with your child, a child you wrote you sought out to get. So why not view her in a positive light and those vibes will surely be noticed by her. 
BTW....I never suggested that anybody should put up with no sex/bad sex. Your post did come across like you wanted her parts more than her. If she feels that, she will shut down. Wouldn't you? :scratchhead:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Pilot my impression is that she has no idea how unhappy you are and that the relationship is in trouble. . I think you must put this to her, it is only fair right. Give her the chance to work on things. I would say it in terms of the type of relationship that you would like to have with her. Think carefully about what you say and what the consequences will be. Then let go and let her decide. 

Along with that, ask her what she is looking for in this relationship. Your declaration of what would make you happy and the same for her can be looked upon as a road map. it must be fairly detailed but loose enough to accept some flexibility and changes. I think you want to have maybe the 4 or 5 top things most important to you and the same for her. 

I am not sure the best way but it must be said. Perhaps a 3 Rd party is needed therapist? Before the relationship goes disintegrates you have to be aggressive. If there were no child it would be simple but this complicated things.

This is so difficult- sometimes if people feel that they have you conered they may not try hard - it depends on the person. Not being cornered means that there must be consequences. I don't know what they should be but it would be sad if Mom and Dad were not strong and happy.

You are working hard for that but you must pull out all the stops and hit this hard now before a hard pattern emerges. I hope you will be able to improve your families happiness you seem motivated and I hope you are rewarded with sucess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

About her answer re sex - did you leave it at just saying bull?? This deserves much more discussion and action but again don't say anything till you get some advice from the men in the club house. You don't want to sound whiny or weak.

I just wanted to respond to the high demand thing. I think you are exactly right but you are in high demand. But how many of these women are looking for a mutually caring and loving relationship? Being in high demand is sometimes a disadvantage if you don't learn how to value the one you are with becaus you think you can do better. 

It helps to stay grounded and keep in mind that you will end up with repeated problems if you get a fat head and dangle that in front of the one you are with. Makes it easy to not care or be invested emotionally in you and to get as much as possible knowing that you have one eye out the door. Just saying. 

I know of what I speak - I attract male attention easily but I know that none of the men who are so easy to attrack hold a candle to the man I lucked out having. I don't feel flattered or inclined to leave because I think I could find someone else easily. I could but i would have a harder time than most women finding someone who regards me as more than a useful object for an ego bost and not a person. . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> But see, it's what you choose to do with that that matters. You could look at her and wish for something else, or you could see her for the person you fell in love with. I know that sounds Polyanna like, trust me. The way you paint her, it sounds like you view her as a throw away and that is not sexy at all. She is also pregnant with your child, a child you wrote you sought out to get. So why not view her in a positive light and those vibes will surely be noticed by her.
> BTW....I never suggested that anybody should put up with no sex/bad sex. Your post did come across like you wanted her parts more than her. If she feels that, she will shut down. Wouldn't you? :scratchhead:


First, don't get my writing style confused with how i conduct my business. I write short and to the point.

Yes, I would and do shut down when i think she is using me.

IF she won't bother to learn what turns me on, then she doesn't respect me. If she doesn't respect me why is she in a realtionship with me? Answer: security - I'm the best around at the time.

That is how I feel when she rolls over and goes to sleep after 4 days without sex - even after I have mentioned several times in passing, not in an arguement, that it is very difficult for a man to go 3 days without release - hint hint honey!


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Pilot my impression is that she has no idea how unhappy you are and that the relationship is in trouble. . I think you must put this to her, it is only fair right. Give her the chance to work on things. I would say it in terms of the type of relationship that you would like to have with her. Think carefully about what you say and what the consequences will be. Then let go and let her decide.
> 
> Along with that, ask her what she is looking for in this relationship. Your declaration of what would make you happy and the same for her can be looked upon as a road map. it must be fairly detailed but loose enough to accept some flexibility and changes. I think you want to have maybe the 4 or 5 top things most important to you and the same for her.
> 
> ...


Nice. 

I actually don't think she knows how severely this affects me. 

I've never grovelled or begged for sex, and she has never refused me. 

I have made clear my needs and my most basic desires, yet she ignores them.

The first time this came up she fell asleep on me at 9p after using her vibrator earlier that day - i was super horny. I woke her up and told her that i really dont care about the vibrator, but if the vibrator was getting some p***y, so was I. She did give me sex, but it was unsatisfying to me - knowing she was taking one for the team.

The second time this came up, I left the house at 10p and returned the next night. Again making it clear without using words that I will get what I want - with or without her.

Right now is the third time lack of sex/affection is affecting me, and that is why I am here - asking advice.

I haven't cheated because that's not my style - or didn't used to be. I have been actively flirting with other women and would probably cheat if given the chance. I don't like that about myself but I know what I need and I am not getting it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Answer: security - I'm the best around at the time.
> 
> That is how I feel when she rolls over and goes to sleep after 4 days without sex - even after I have mentioned several times in passing, not in an arguement, that it is very difficult for a man to go 3 days without release - hint hint honey!


Could this be the problem. Would a woman want to have sex to releive a man? She might think that you can take care of your release and come to her when you want an emotional connection and shared love. Just sound so dry - like she is expected to provide a service for you. 

Get you stimulated and relieve you when you need. Just I thought. My sense, from the little you have written, is that sex sounds unappealing. It seems to be something you expect for you and not for you and your partner. I am not saying this is true just what it sounds like. If this is what she sees then she may feel the same way. 

Anyway I think you are saying it wrong. I am certain men will think why should they have to be careful about how they talk about sex with their partner. Because women can easily feel used for sex if it s presented as an act for male release - looking for a warm hole. Not saying this is you but just a thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Just yesterday as we were talking, she told me _her_ maxim of keeping my belly full and my balls drained ,lol. I told her to skip the cleaning and cooking and just make sure the latter is taken care of - we had a good laugh.

She KNOWS what I need. It has been made clear time and time again.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Could this be the problem. Would a woman want to have sex to releive a man? She might think that you can take care of your release and come to her when you want an emotional connection and shared love. Just sound so dry - like she is expected to provide a service for you.
> 
> Get you stimulated and relieve you when you need. Just I thought. My sense, from the little you have written, is that sex sounds unappealing. It seems to be something you expect for you and not for you and your partner. I am not saying this is true just what it sounds like. If this is what she sees then she may feel the same way.
> 
> ...


Fair enough - but i can say without a doubt that if she told me of a simple act that could make her happy and secure I would do it for her without hesitation. Is that not a great reason to be in a relationship? Mutual satifaction and knowing what it takes to make the other feel respected and loved?

She loves our sex. As mentioned before I don't use her as a cum dumpster - I am very attentive to her body and always let her orgasm first.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

> I haven't cheated because that's not my style - or didn't used to be. I have been actively flirting with other women and would probably cheat if given the chance. I don't like that about myself but I know what I need and I am not getting it.


So, she is 4 months pregnant with the baby YOU wanted to have, she's never turned you down for sex? Your complaint is that sometimes she just isn't into it or her technique is not quite to your liking, and she's gained some weight? And newsflash: if you can't go 3 days between sex, just wait until she actually has the baby. Most doctors recommend waiting 6 weeks, and that's IF you're lucky and she feels like it.

And you really think this entitles you to flirt with other women and cheat? Forget the blowjob book; you seem like a real piece of work.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> I am very supportive of her, and am excited to be a dad once again. I am not a flighty person; but let me ask you this - once the child is brought into the world do you think my position will improve or decline further?


Honest - decline for a bit then improve. My baby is 6 months old and just starting to get my 'groove' back. It's not my fault - hormones crash after baby. How are you approaching her? Does she feel lectured and inadequate? It's touchy subject. I had to laugh, pilot guy is not 'flighty' ha ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

nader said:


> So, she is 4 months pregnant with the baby YOU wanted to have, she's never turned you down for sex? Your complaint is that sometimes she just isn't into it or her technique is not quite to your liking, and she's gained some weight? And newsflash: if you can't go 3 days between sex, just wait until she actually has the baby. Most doctors recommend waiting 6 weeks, and that's IF you're lucky and she feels like it.
> 
> And you really think this entitles you to flirt with other women and cheat? Forget the blowjob book; you seem like a real piece of work.


I don't get the sense that he is at all insensitive. He is unhappy and confused by his partners indifference. I'd ask her why she would get involved with a man who was clear about what he needed to feel loved and then torment him. It really rather unloving don't you think. To respond to his request possativly and then tapper off is equally unloving if not a little cruel no? 

Why do that? Why not be up front and not play a cat and mouse game. She needs to Woman up- treat him like he has some feeling as it appears he does. Woman up means acting like a responsible adult and not a child playing mind games. That's how I feel. he sounds like a good man why not pamper him treat him special as long as he does the same!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Nice.
> 
> I actually don't think she knows how severely this affects me.
> 
> ...


You're kinda crude but I sense it hides your vulnerability. I would be beyond hurt if I found my husband masturbating instead of me when I tell him I want him more. You're crudeness covers up your hurt. You feel used and you're feeling like a pay cheque and wondering why she's obviously sexual (vibrator) but why not you? As I said you're a little blunt but I get it. Let me think a bit and see if I cam come up with anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> Honest - decline for a bit then improve. My baby is 6 months old and just starting to get my 'groove' back. It's not my fault - hormones crash after baby. How are you approaching her? Does she feel lectured and inadequate? It's touchy subject. I had to laugh, pilot guy is not 'flighty' ha ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this isn't my first rodeo and i am ready to deal with post baby sex

i tell her when i masturbate - she does not respond with her body even though she tells me that i should not have to masturbate.

i even let her watch once so she could understand exactly what I do to get off in a few minutes. she was taking so long that i had to finish myself because it started to hurt

even after she watched, she has not tried to repeat anything she saw


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't get the sense that he is at all insensitive. He is unhappy and confused by his partners indifference. I'd ask her why she would get involved with a man who was clear about what he needed to feel loved and then torment him. It really rather unloving don't you think. To respond to his request possativly and then tapper off is equally unloving if not a little cruel no?
> 
> Why do that? Why not be up front and not play a cat and mouse game. She needs to Woman up- treat him like he has some feeling as it appears he does. Woman up means acting like a responsible adult and not a child playing mind games. That's how I feel. he sounds like a good man why not pamper him treat him special as long as he does the same!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


except for the flirting with other women part, right?

As someone who's just been through this (we have a 3 month old and were together less than a year before the pregnancy), I was happy to be getting anything at all. 4 months into a pregnancy is NOT a good time to be whining about bj technique.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> this isn't my first rodeo and i am ready to deal with post baby sex


Not mine either but H almost died when during pregnancy I couldn't get enough and he was fighting me off and then the crash. I love him enough for awesome bj's though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Fair enough - but i can say without a doubt that if she told me of a simple act that could make her happy and secure I would do it for her without hesitation. Is that not a great reason to be in a relationship? Mutual satifaction and knowing what it takes to make the other feel respected and loved?
> 
> She loves our sex. As mentioned before I don't use her as a cum dumpster - I am very attentive to her body and always let her orgasm first.


back off of always being the best lover and try to be selfish about it once in awhile.

Bang her fast and hard and then roll over and say WOW your so hot and I came so fast I love you dear. after a few of thoes she will probley say how about some long slow sex like you use to do and then say ya know I feel kinda used always doing for you and you not doing for me. you got to give to get baby I don't mind doing for you but its seeems lopsided and thats a real turn off. tell her you like the same stuff as her. long slow foreplay with a great climax at the end. 

I'll tell you what I'll do for you if you do for me.but I get to get mine first and then I'll rock your world.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> except for the flirting with other women part, right?
> 
> As someone who's just been through this (we have a 3 month old and were together less than a year before the pregnancy), I was happy to be getting anything at all. 4 months into a pregnancy is NOT a good time to be whining about bj technique.


she is not sick at all anymore - and devotes plenty of time to work, friends, daughter, activities, etc.

when she was sick for the first few months, there was no pressure from me - i'm not a cave man

she told me how horny she was in the second trimester last time and how she couldnt get enough sex

she's currently in the second trimester - see the disconnect?


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> back off of always being the best lover and try to be selfish about it once in awhile.
> 
> Bang her fast and hard and then roll over and say WOW your so hot and I came so fast I love you dear. after a few of thoes she will probley say how about some long slow sex like you use to do and then say ya know I feel kinda used always doing for you and you not doing for me. you got to give to get baby I don't mind doing for you but its seeems lopsided and thats a real turn off. tell her you like the same stuff as her. long slow foreplay with a great climax at the end.
> 
> I'll tell you what I'll do for you if you do for me.but I get to get mine first and then I'll rock your world.


yep, tried it.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

does she know you are flirting with other women?

ETA: how horny she was for the last pregnancy doesn't mean anything; she was with a different guy then. Every pregnancy is different.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> back off of always being the best lover and try to be selfish about it once in awhile.
> 
> Bang her fast and hard and then roll over and say WOW your so hot and I came so fast I love you dear. after a few of thoes she will probley say how about some long slow sex like you use to do and then say ya know I feel kinda used always doing for you and you not doing for me. you got to give to get baby I don't mind doing for you but its seeems lopsided and thats a real turn off. tell her you like the same stuff as her. long slow foreplay with a great climax at the end.
> 
> I'll tell you what I'll do for you if you do for me.but I get to get mine first and then I'll rock your world.


LOL you're funny. Pilot huge difference between shy, timid and lack of experience and just plain old don't give a crap lazy - which one is she?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> she is not sick at all anymore - and devotes plenty of time to work, friends, daughter, activities, etc.
> 
> when she was sick for the first few months, there was no pressure from me - i'm not a cave man
> 
> ...


I was different with different pregnancies. Might not be personal!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> LOL you're funny. Pilot huge difference between shy, timid and lack of experience and just plain old don't give a crap lazy - which one is she?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i'm inclined to the latter - a princess. she was extremely hot as a young woman, and i think she still has the princess attitude of take it or leave it.

what she fails to undertand is that the tables are turned now - she is at the end of her high sexual demand, and i am at the beginning of mine.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> does she know you are flirting with other women?


she senses that i am pulling away - overly nice today. so yes, she knows i am unhappy and all that unhappiness entails.

i'm sure that i will get sex tonight - but that is not the issue here. the issue is i have to withdraw my affection in order for her to respond. i'm not going to do this for 30 more years - it will only get worse.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> does she know you are flirting with other women?
> 
> ETA: how horny she was for the last pregnancy doesn't mean anything; she was with a different guy then. Every pregnancy is different.


well, it means something to me


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Star said:


> How old is she?


31


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> i'm inclined to the latter - a princess. she was extremely hot as a young woman, and i think she still has the princess attitude of take it or leave it.
> 
> what she fails to undertand is that the tables are turned now - she is at the end of her high sexual demand, and i am at the beginning of mine.


So really sex is the symptom of bigger problem - she doesn't care enough to try and meet your needs. The vibrator is the tip off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> So really sex is the symptom of bigger problem - she doesn't care enough to try and meet your needs. The vibrator is the tip off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i am aware that she uses it sometimes, and the last time she used it she seemed a bit ashamed. i asked her to let me see her toys, and as of yet she hasn't shown them to me but i dont push it because i dont want to give her hand that i am jealous of a vibrator - i'm really not jealous as long as my needs are met. i feel that the vibrator probably stopped her from sl**ting it up with lots of strange men

i dont think she has used it for many months now - i pay attention to the available time she has to use it and its not much between her work and actually having alone time without her daughter around


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

All I can say then is, good luck.

I've been in your boat, probably got a ton less action than you when my wife was pregnant. Yes, I was frustrated and miserable for awhile, but never in a million years would have thought about going out and cheating. 

When she is pregnant, your needs come second, period. As a dad you needs will also come second or even third, for a very long time. You said this isn't your first rodeo so I'd expect you to understand that. If she truly loves you she will come around eventually, but pregnancy hormones are unpredictable and maddening. There is no rhyme or reason to it. 

I hope for your sake that she can learn to try harder, but if you really love her you should learn to be patient and stop taking it all so personally.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> All I can say then is, good luck.
> 
> I've been in your boat, probably got a ton less action than you when my wife was pregnant. Yes, I was frustrated and miserable for awhile, but never in a million years would have thought about going out and cheating.
> 
> ...


i reject your notion that i come third; an accessory to her life


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Feed me, **** me, don't nag a lot.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

like i mentioned before, she TELLS me that she will try harder, recognizes my needs, needs to be more creative in bed, etc

it never comes to fruition


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Feed me, **** me, don't nag a lot.


lol, i got in trouble when i reduced my argument to absurdity! but this boils it down nicely!

dont just f*ck, put some feeling in it

I even forwarded the thread on this board about what makes a woman good in bed - the only response i got was "PILOTGUY!"


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> i am aware that she uses it sometimes, and the last time she used it she seemed a bit ashamed. i asked her to let me see her toys, and as of yet she hasn't shown them to me but i dont push it because i dont want to give her hand that i am jealous of a vibrator - i'm really not jealous as long as my needs are met. i feel that the vibrator probably stopped her from sl**ting it up with lots of strange men
> 
> i dont think she has used it for many months now - i pay attention to the available time she has to use it and its not much between her work and actually having alone time without her daughter around


By tip off I mean she knows you're ready - willing and able and she went to the vibrator. As a woman it means she's horny and wants to get off but doesn't want the work or effort of getting you there too. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> By tip off I mean she knows you're ready - willing and able and she went to the vibrator.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


good point


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I'll tell you, I am racked out here on week two of the flu and brochialpneumonia. When my otherwise cold and distant wife put a sammich plate on my chest while I was zonked out asleep on the couch I thought I died and went to guy heaven. It was truly the most tender thing she's done for me all year.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

pilotguy said:


> i reject your notion that i come third; an accessory to her life


it doesn't make you an accessory; it just means that the baby is going to have to be fed, burped, put to sleep; and mom will need to be well rested, secure and happy before you can even think of having your needs met.

It's just a reality of fatherhood.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> By tip off I mean she knows you're ready - willing and able and she went to the vibrator. As a woman it means she's horny and wants to get off but doesn't want the work or effort of getting you there too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i forgot one thing she said to me once, unitil you brought this up. 

the time when i could not get hard and she got frustrated she actually said these words "its too much work"

i got pissed and asked why pleasing the man you love is too much work? she had no response.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> it doesn't make you an accessory; it just means that the baby is going to have to be fed, burped, put to sleep; and mom will need to be well rested, secure and happy before you can even think of having your needs met.
> 
> It's just a reality of fatherhood.


of course - understood.

but how nice would it be to hear these words "i know that you are neglected because of the baby, but tonight when the lights go out i'm gonna s**ck you dry big man"


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Thank you all for your help - my situation is clear to me now. This is exactly the reason I came forward with my story.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

I hear that. What helps me, honestly, is just not talking about it. When I bug my wife about sex, it just turns her off more and more. But if I just shut my mouth, pay more attention, and play my cards right, it goes better for me.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

nader said:


> I hear that. What helps me, honestly, is just not talking about it. When I bug my wife about sex, it just turns her off more and more. But if I just shut my mouth, pay more attention, and play my cards right, it goes better for me.


As the higher drive spouse I can attest to this. Talking too much is a turn off.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Thank you all for your help - my situation is clear to me now. This is exactly the reason I came forward with my story.


Can we ask what conclusion you've come to? I would lay everything on the table with her. Not about lack of good sex but attitude. The 'Come to Jesus' talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> Can we ask what conclusion you've come to? I would lay everything on the table with her. Not about lack of good sex but attitude. The 'Come to Jesus' talk.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


pshychologically i am checking out of the relationship. i am going to contact a person that she respects, with some pull in her life that can help me steer her towards learning that i am about to leave, and why

its very risky to bring this up with her mother, but i have nothing to lose at this point. i am leaving if she doesnt shape up - i deserve better and i know it.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Way to take the direct approach - I'm sure her mom will understand.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> Way to take the direct approach - I'm sure her mom will understand.


sarcasm doesnt come through in the written word very well; but in case i didnt mention it, i have already talked to my girlfriend directly about this issue - twice

i dont care at this point if her mother understands or not - but its better than just walking out, and it will give me more of an excuse if she brushes me off


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## Mercedes (May 18, 2011)

Honestly, it sounds like you're changing the game. 

You went into a marriage saying all you wanted was a womb, and all she wanted was security. But, it's clear you have some very specific emotional and sexual demands that you admit are difficult for her to meet.

It doesn't sound like this relationship is going to work out well, but I hope for the sake of your next that you can be a little more honest up front about your expectations. She held up her end, but you're not satisfied.

(Geez: she's got a tough ticket ahead of her if you do pursue leaving, or another relationship while she's pregnant like this. Does she have other family close by that can support her through it?)


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Confidence = Sexy. Arrogance = huge turn off. Maybe something to look into. I was trying to think of a non insulting way to say this, but the fact you are going to have two baby mommas kills attraction for a lot of women, myself included. Might be worth looking at yourself instead of trying to put it all on her. I get that you feel she isn't meeting your needs, but I also think a good portion of the time it comes down to neither of you are meeting the others needs. Sure, you think you are meeting hers, but maybe not. What does SHE deserve?? You know what you deserve, what about her?


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Mercedes said:


> Honestly, it sounds like you're changing the game.
> 
> You went into a marriage saying all you wanted was a womb, and all she wanted was security. But, it's clear you have some very specific emotional and sexual demands that you admit are difficult for her to meet.
> 
> ...


our relationship is biult on a mutual understanding that we each have what the other wants - perhaps not romantic, but this is a solid foundation. 

this arrangement does not eclipse feelings of love and respect.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PG,
You sound completely rational. And the real issue here has nothing to do with hormones and everything to do with priorities and commitment. Basically you have the following situation:

Your standard of conduct is: "I will go to great lengths to make sure your needs are met and you feel happy and loved"

Her standard of conduct is: "I will carefully feel around for the edge of the behavioral envelope so I can figure out just how little I can do for you without actually losing you and your financial support"

Those models of interaction are frighteningly common. Don't walk yet though. Seriously. You are the injured party here but there are some things that you need to consider trying before you vaporize the marriage. They won't take long. And then you can make a fully informed decision that you will feel really super comfortable with regardless of whether it is to stay or depart. 




pilotguy said:


> i reject your notion that i come third; an accessory to her life


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> PG,
> You sound completely rational. And the real issue here has nothing to do with hormones and everything to do with priorities and commitment. Basically you have the following situation:
> 
> Your standard of conduct is: "I will go to great lengths to make sure your needs are met and you feel happy and loved"
> ...


Even as a woman I do agree. While PG seems a little rough around the edges with his delivery, and comes out stating this is a sex problem but truth is it's more about respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You indicated that you and your partner had a 'rational' discussion about all of this, but honestly?

I just don't think you did your due diligence very well.

This woman is still married to another guy.

I actually think your plan to leave is a good one. 

Never in your post do you state; "I love her." Not that it matters, but it stood out to me.

I just don't get the sense that either of you are "all in", but you find yourselves expecting a child nonetheless.

Sincerely hope it works out, in whatever form, for the both of you.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Deejo said:


> You indicated that you and your partner had a 'rational' discussion about all of this, but honestly?
> 
> I just don't think you did your due diligence very well.
> 
> ...


Thank you - well stated


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> , you don't seem to illicit strong emotions in woman. _Posted via Mobile Device_


i seem to illicit strong emotion out of you!


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

so did you just start this thread so people could validate your decision to walk away from the mother of your child due to inferior bjs, and then laugh off anyone who seems to have a problem with this? You seem to have had your mind made up all along. What exactly are you looking for here?


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

nader said:


> so did you just start this thread so people could validate your decision to walk away from the mother of your child due to inferior bjs, and then laugh off anyone who seems to have a problem with this? You seem to have had your mind made up all along. What exactly are you looking for here?


no, this is not funny to me


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I misspoke - you seem to illicit indifference from women or strong negative emotions. I supose some emotions are better than none. Thanks for pointing out the inexact nature of my statement. You seem to have one thing going for you, a critical eye - for others. 

You started with wanting to walk out because she was cold and then you seemed to waver then you decided to go with your first instinct because it did not sound so bad afterall. 

How did you arrive at your decision? Did you look in the mirror realize that a woman past her prime and 4 month pregnant with your child was not prostrate enough and worshiping at your phallus in deference to your wonderful manhood? She won't feel this way now but I think she is lucky that things did not work. As it is, you have a 3rd child to support and she can move on to a man who is not so full of him self. Another big plus - she won't have to work feverously to get him to stand at attention. That in itself will be a relief can't see doing that 3 - 4 times a week, what a buzz kill. 

I hope you are at lest honest with the next hottie in line for you manly attentions who you came to have a pregnant gf while out shopping for a replacement. Quality women will avoid you like you were the dark one himself. But there will be 10s if not 100s who will take you on. She'll have visions of sugar plums dancing in her head and you will have visions of getting head every night. Sounds like a match made in some beggars version of haven.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I misspoke - you seem to illicit indifference from women or strong negative emotions. I supose some emotions are better than none. Thanks for pointing out the inexact nature of my statement. You seem to have one thing going for you, a critical eye - for others.
> 
> You started with wanting to walk out because she was cold and then you seemed to waver then you decided to go with your first instinct because it did not sound so bad afterall.
> 
> ...


You've had a lot of great posts, but I have to say - this is the single best one you've had - IMO.


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## x4tnys (May 26, 2011)

pilotguy said:


> Hello all. I’ve been lurking for quite a while and the advice I see on here is top notch, so here I go.
> 
> My Background: I am divorced from a ten year marriage with two young boys who now live out of state. 36 years old. After my recovery period, I lost a bunch of weight and started to read the PUA blogs. I took the red pill so to speak – realizing at the same time that a lot of commenters on these sites are spergy nerds, I took the lessons that made sense to me and applied them with my current girlfriend. Oh boy, did they work! I was not out to use game to pump and dump, but to land a quality girl to reproduce with and raise a family – and most importantly to keep her and myself happy and sexually fulfilled. I am not about to go into another sexless relationship.
> 
> ...



Let me say a couple of things. First off, I, like you, would consider myself in fairly high demand. I'm 24, make mid 6-figures, we live in a beautiful house, I provide for my wife, etc. We've been married a little over 2 years. It's absurd that you think because you have a decent income and are decent sexually that your entitled to a good blowjob and a high libido or your free to just leave. Honestly, first off, she isnt a hooker, it doesn't work like that, you make/give her money, she gives you sex, give me a break. SECONDLY, you specficially told this girl all you wanted her for was a womb, and she complied, and now, OH WAIT, THAT WASN'T ALL YOU WANTED. You cant base a marriage on just a womb, she gave you exactly what you asked for and now your considering running out?

If you think your NEARLY as high quality / good guy as you think you are, you would never even consider telling this girl you want her for a womb, getting her pregnant, and then leave her 4 months in because she isn't performing sexually while she's in the middle of pregnancy. She does try to improve for you, and then it fades off, you immediately see this as her not holding up her end of the bargain, but its #!)*$ing hard to maintain a big motivation for something your not great at. The point is she IS trying. You need to a) wait til she's through her pregnancy before you push it too far, and b) work with her, keep explaining how important it is to you, and keep encouraging her to improve, in the nicest way you possibly can. Just practice, work together, and work your way out of it. But honestly, the way your approaching the whole situation and how much you think your entitled to because of your decent social status is ridiculous. 

Work through it together, guide her, since you obviously know what you want, but do it in a positive way. Also please consider that even though you think your blowing her away sexually, and doing whatever she wants, just talk her through it, she may feel your frustration / being about to leave, or whatever, and the intimacy has really died down for her, or she may want something completely different out of you. Talk it over, work through it. If you leave her, then believe me buddy, your not NEARLY as in demand as you think you are, because despite your high income, in the end you'll only be one giant POS. GL, and I hope you guys work through it.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

x4tnys said:


> Let me say a couple of things. First off, I, like you, would consider myself in fairly high demand. I'm 24, make mid 6-figures, we live in a beautiful house, I provide for my wife, etc. We've been married a little over 2 years. It's absurd that you think because you have a decent income and are decent sexually that your entitled to a good blowjob and a high libido or your free to just leave. Honestly, first off, she isnt a hooker, it doesn't work like that, you make/give her money, she gives you sex, give me a break. SECONDLY, you specficially told this girl all you wanted her for was a womb, and she complied, and now, OH WAIT, THAT WASN'T ALL YOU WANTED. You cant base a marriage on just a womb, she gave you exactly what you asked for and now your considering running out?
> 
> If you think your NEARLY as high quality / good guy as you think you are, you would never even consider telling this girl you want her for a womb, getting her pregnant, and then leave her 4 months in because she isn't performing sexually while she's in the middle of pregnancy. She does try to improve for you, and then it fades off, you immediately see this as her not holding up her end of the bargain, but its #!)*$ing hard to maintain a big motivation for something your not great at. The point is she IS trying. You need to a) wait til she's through her pregnancy before you push it too far, and b) work with her, keep explaining how important it is to you, and keep encouraging her to improve, in the nicest way you possibly can. Just practice, work together, and work your way out of it. But honestly, the way your approaching the whole situation and how much you think your entitled to because of your decent social status is ridiculous.
> 
> Work through it together, guide her, since you obviously know what you want, but do it in a positive way. Also please consider that even though you think your blowing her away sexually, and doing whatever she wants, just talk her through it, she may feel your frustration / being about to leave, or whatever, and the intimacy has really died down for her, or she may want something completely different out of you. Talk it over, work through it. If you leave her, then believe me buddy, your not NEARLY as in demand as you think you are, because despite your high income, in the end you'll only be one giant POS. GL, and I hope you guys work through it.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## bunnybear (Jan 13, 2011)

You're not married to her. You can leave anytime you want. You don't have to be together to raise the new child. Up to you if you're unhappy.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

x4tnys said:


> Let me say a couple of things. First off, I, like you, would consider myself in fairly high demand. I'm 24, make mid 6-figures, we live in a beautiful house, I provide for my wife, etc. We've been married a little over 2 years. It's absurd that you think because you have a decent income and are decent sexually that your entitled to a good blowjob and a high libido or your free to just leave. Honestly, first off, she isnt a hooker, it doesn't work like that, you make/give her money, she gives you sex, give me a break. SECONDLY, you specficially told this girl all you wanted her for was a womb, and she complied, and now, OH WAIT, THAT WASN'T ALL YOU WANTED. You cant base a marriage on just a womb, she gave you exactly what you asked for and now your considering running out?
> 
> If you think your NEARLY as high quality / good guy as you think you are, you would never even consider telling this girl you want her for a womb, getting her pregnant, and then leave her 4 months in because she isn't performing sexually while she's in the middle of pregnancy. She does try to improve for you, and then it fades off, you immediately see this as her not holding up her end of the bargain, but its #!)*$ing hard to maintain a big motivation for something your not great at. The point is she IS trying. You need to a) wait til she's through her pregnancy before you push it too far, and b) work with her, keep explaining how important it is to you, and keep encouraging her to improve, in the nicest way you possibly can. Just practice, work together, and work your way out of it. But honestly, the way your approaching the whole situation and how much you think your entitled to because of your decent social status is ridiculous.
> 
> Work through it together, guide her, since you obviously know what you want, but do it in a positive way. Also please consider that even though you think your blowing her away sexually, and doing whatever she wants, just talk her through it, she may feel your frustration / being about to leave, or whatever, and the intimacy has really died down for her, or she may want something completely different out of you. Talk it over, work through it. If you leave her, then believe me buddy, your not NEARLY as in demand as you think you are, because despite your high income, in the end you'll only be one giant POS. GL, and I hope you guys work through it.


Nicely said.


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## pilotguy (May 25, 2011)

Update:

After contemplating all the advice here, I decided to take this to her directly one more time.

She started to roll her eyes when I brought it up - since I have so many times already. I stopped her there and told her she didnt understand - I am ready to walk over this.

It seems that I assumed that she had done the things I am asking with at least one other guy - I was wrong. Finishing a bj was something she had never done. This never even occured to me - never. 

She isn't lying either. 

Her long term ex thought is was for hookers, and never asked for it.

She stated that a few had asked, but she had never done it.

Then she did it for me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PG,
You are entitled to be "prioritized". You are entitled to be treated as the MOST important person in her life. 

If you really are a great partner for her, and you both earn and demand respect, she should step up. 

I DO think that you are describing a woman who is looking to see how little overall effort you will accept. And that is something you need to address together. 

The other night my W offered to "please me". Kind of a one way thing. I softly kissed her on the lips and put my head in her lap while we watched tv. She gave me an hour of back scratching and back massage. THAT is commitment. 




pilotguy said:


> Update:
> 
> After contemplating all the advice here, I decided to take this to her directly one more time.
> 
> ...


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

You said you would offer her security, and she would offer you children. 

She lived up to her end of the bargain.

Now you are trying to back out of your end of the bargain?


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

Surrogate mother + hooker does not = wife or girlfriend. (Or shouldn't, anyway.)
Do you watch a lot of porn? Just curious. 
x4tnys,
Nader,
Catherine (last post)
and Deejo
thx for your thoughts. I am trying to be a less bitter soon to be divorced woman, and you helped.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> Use some shaming - that'll teach me!
> 
> I AM entitled to a good sexual relationship.
> 
> A book on bj's - nice suggestion, going to Amazon now.


You are not entitled to a good sexual relationship, if you are cruel enough to bash this woman for being overweight-WHILE SHE IS PREGNANT. Guess what, women are supposed to gain weight while they are carrying a human inside them!  You said that you have two boys, but you seem ignorant about pregnancy and the challenges that come with it.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> As a matter of fact, I feel that she is the entitled princess. Just giving me what I ask for until she can resume minimal duties.


Oh My God. You are sounding like she is an employee of yours, a hired sex worker.  Poor woman.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

pilotguy said:


> _Does she still work and does she plan on working after the baby is born._
> 
> she was planning on not working after the baby was born. after this issue came up, i asked her to keep working after maternity leave. i really felt that she was using me and not returning my affection. she agreed to keep working.
> 
> i make more than enough to support this family.


You are forcing your child's mother to work, when you make more than enough for the family?? All because she is not "doing her duties"?! Selfish and spoiled aren't the words.


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