# Finally posting on this topic :(



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

After several months and many discussions with folks on here, I find myself on the infidelity boards. Sad. I too fell victim to the "she would never do such a thing" state of mind until I discovered proof on her phone. I seethed for a day, the finally confronted her in our MC session on Friday.

Things went relatively well, and I didn't even have to pull out proof. I just told her I knew, and asked her to tell me about it. She was angry, felt a little bad, but did the whole "you weren't taking care of me so I went someplace else" argument. She's had a relationship with OM for over a year, and dropped the bomb on me in January telling me that the deterioration of our marriage was my fault. Now I find this.

We talked for a few hours when we got back from MC, and though emotions ran high on both sides, we kept it pretty well under control. After all that was said on both sides, however, the thing that finally sunk in for her was when I mentioned that she's hurting OM's family too. His wife and children are majorly affected by him being checked out. She was flabbergasted and had not really considered this.

Flash forward to this morning and during breakfast with our kids she tells me she wants to talk to later on. When we finally do, she gives me a sincere and heartfelt apology for hurting me. She's still sticking to her guns about divorce, because she thinks that I didn't care enough about her to see to her needs; more on that in a moment. She also told me that OM freaked out and cut it off, and that he told his wife. This I think is what really upset my wife the most, is that she lost a friend of 20 years because they had an affair. She was still thinking that this could continue and that everything would be the same after I found out about the affair. She finally has checked back into reality, and though it's a far sadder place than she was living, it has the potential for greatness.

So we are still only 1 day out from this, and still have an appointment with MC next week. I asked today if IC (with same guy who is phenomenal) would be something she'd be interested in, and she said perhaps. I think she's really starting to have a different perspective on things. That being said, her major issue with me remains the same. She feels that I don't take care of her, and I don't do that because I don't feel she's worth it. This feeling is borne of me becoming a SAHD and losing myself, and both of us not paying attention to how it was affecting our marriage. She also now recognizes that she never told me how she felt, she only gave me directions. She doesn't like to upset people she loves, and doesn't like to feel upset, so she holds it all in. Now that it's been identified, hopefully she'll be able to work on it and make some progress.

As for me, my issues are that I wasn't seeing how important certain things are to her. For example, the emotional letdown of me not taking care of things around the house while being a SAHD was huge to her, but I never thought that it was anything more than an annoyance. She also just told me today that she's upset that I haven't gotten her anything big as a present, and I didn't remind her (trying to be a better listener) that she's told me for years that she doesn't want to spend money on jewelry. Additionally, I thought I was a good listener but I see now that because she never talked about her feelings, I filled up the space with my own talking in circles and controlling behavior. She still feels that I don't really pay attention to her, and she may be right; I do have difficulty focusing sometimes.

So we are at the place where she feels hugely betrayed because she thinks I used her to live a life of leisure as a SAHD, and I feel hugely betrayed because she did in fact use me to be able to continue to have her affair while telling me that it was all my fault (she told me this today, and I stayed home with the kids while she was out screwing OM). Here's the rub for me: I have the insight enough into how she felt to understand how she may have slept with OM. I know she now realizes that, just because she/we were in a bad spot, there is no excuse for having an affair and lying to me about it. I can understand where she comes from. She, however, cannot "reconcile" (her words) my actions of seeming indifference to her and my telling her it was because I was ignorant of how she felt. She is still clinging dearly to the belief that it's been over for a long time, 5 or 6 years since I became a SAHD, and it's because I didn't care enough about her to see that she was upset over our relationship and was neglecting her.

Thankfully, we have MC sessions scheduled still, and she's still willing to go. I think for now I just need to back off, let her see that I am still hurt and upset by her affair, but not rub it in. In a few weeks, we can see where we stand and what capabilities we have toward a good relationship, whatever the legal status.

Thanks for reading my story, and I'm always happy to answer questions if clarification is needed. Any thoughts/insights/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks again.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It sucks there's no remorse. Sorry about that.

I don't care why we as loyals forgive, but the bottom line is they stepped out on a contract and there is an honorable way to step out of a marriage and then there is cheating!

I mean come on ....my wife pulled the same crap and the bottom line is not what I did to make her cheat, its what I did to have a crappy marriage. Its all on them for what they did and why they did it. 

There is the marriage and then there are the character flaws that makes one moral compase point south....if you know what I mean?

The affair is all on them and the problematic marriage could have been dealt with through a divorce. But what a person does to another human being is all on the person that screws them over.

Granted I screwed my W over with emotional abuse and that is something I have to own and make the changes with in my self to either stop doing it to my W or someone else I get involved with.

Our wives slept around and that is something that they must own with out making a justification that we were sh!tty husbands. They need to own this so that they can make the changes with in them selve. Again to prevent from doing it again or doing it to someone else they get involved with.

Its very concerning that you chick keeps looking at you instead of her self in why she did what she did.

Just my $0.02


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

You seem to have a pretty good handle on the fact that it was her lack of communication that was the major reason that she kept herself in that place, with her resentment and feelings. Had she acted responsibly, honestly and morally, and told you of her disatisfaction, things would , probably, have never gotten this bad(you don't strike me as the type of person who would blow her off had she expressed herself).
At this point, your wife in majorly invested in promoting the idea that your deficiencies casued this. Many studies, however, have reached the conclusion that, in fact, the main contributor to pre-affair problems was the cheater.
Makes sense, as the cheater has demonstrated poor communication and problem solving skills, lack of integrity and empathy and, in general, qualities that make for a poor mate.
At this point, so soon after discovery, many betrayed spouses are just dying to accept the blame. The are devesated, traumatized beyond beleif and do not have the rationality or strenght to see that they may have contributd to some pre affair problems, but their spouse did ,as well(usually moreso).
Never, ever buy into the blaming.
Please do not importune your unremorseful wife to stay(I know she has paid lip service to apologizing, But, the blameshifting shoows she really does not feel remorse.)
And, please, please confirm with the other betrayed spouse the info your lying wife gave you re his disclosure. It very well may be complete BS.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Man, it is awful to read these stories. 
I'm so sorry you ended up here. It sucks. And I am sorry to read that the OM was also married with kids.

I would like to say, as a SAHD, good for you. I think Dads are much more patient than mom's. Your kids were lucky, I think. Do you enjoy it?

And, as a woman that could "parrot" your wife's comments about not paying attention, or taking her for granted \ feeling used.
That said... I did not go out and seek another.
We don't have kids together, and marriage is newer than yours.

I did speak up and voice what I don't like. And... it's over. 

This seems like a common theme here. Resentment, unhappiness, noboby "talks" and then there is an affair, and the BS is left going "oh, I had no idea you were upset or unhappy about that".

I think it's a sad comment on humanity. You have my sympathies, and I hope others here are able to give you the advice you need.
Take care,


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Arnold said:


> At this point, your wife in majorly invested in promoting the idea that your deficiencies casued this. Many studies, however, have reached the conclusion that, in fact, the main contributor to pre-affair problems was the cheater.


I have to keep reminding myself of this, thank you.




Arnold said:


> And, please, please confirm with the other betrayed spouse the info your lying wife gave you re his disclosure. It very well may be complete BS.


Good point, I may just send her a FB message along the lines of, "if you ever want to talk about things, here's my number...". That's discreet enough that she'll either respond with, Okay thanks, or, Who are you and what's this about? Either way I'll know.

Thanks again.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

deejov said:


> I would like to say, as a SAHD, good for you. I think Dads are much more patient than mom's. Your kids were lucky, I think. Do you enjoy it?


I enjoyed spending the time with the kids, absolutely. However, I didn't really enjoy the in between part, and I recognize that now.



deejov said:


> And, as a woman that could "parrot" your wife's comments about not paying attention, or taking her for granted \ feeling used.
> That said... I did not go out and seek another.
> We don't have kids together, and marriage is newer than yours.
> 
> I did speak up and voice what I don't like. And... it's over.


This is what I told W today. Even though you were telling me you didn't like things, I didn't equate that with true emotional unhappiness. She always told me what she would like or not, but never how it made her *FEEL*. I realize that I may operate differently that a lot of other folks, but how people I love feel is extremely important to me, especially my wife. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you either, but I hope you keep that in mind. Sometimes (oftentimes for me) it helps to hear how things make you feel.

Thank you for your comments.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

the guy said:


> It sucks there's no remorse. Sorry about that.


I believe that I did see some true remorse today, but not for the affair as much as for using me along the way. She's remorseful that she didn't kick me to the curb sooner, but she's also remorseful for hurting me. I think you're right though, it's not complete; if it were realize and own up to her responsibility for the state of the marriage. However, since she's been living in fantasy land for a year+, I understand if it's going to take her some time to rise above that and truly start making connections. I know it took me the better part of 10 months to truly see all the ways in which we were deficient as a couple. 




the guy said:


> There is the marriage and then there are the character flaws that makes one moral compase point south....if you know what I mean?


I do, I just keep forgetting it. Thank you for the reminder.

Thanks again for the reply.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Keep in mind that almost 70% of all divorce filings are done by women. Since your wife is adamant about divorce, it would behoove you to seek legal counseling ASAP. Also go to *Dads divorce* because you'll find a wealth of information from men who were in your shoes and what you can do to minimize the impact of the divorce on you and your kids.

It's better to be prepared for the worse than to be caught off guard and then have rush in order to protect yourself. As the old saying goes 'The best defense is good offense".


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, yes, yes. See a father's rights lawyer.
You were the primary caregiver. She was the breadwinner. You may have a decent shot at custody and maintenance, as well as child support.
Please do not let a desire to make the pain end make you give up any rights or entitlements you earned.

My dad was a really good lawyer. He handled everything from murders to PI to real estate to divorce. He grew up on the streets of NYC, living in subways as a kid in the depression. He graduated from Harvard Law School in 2 and a half years and was asked to stay and teach.
When this happened to me, he was dying of cancer, weighed about 100lbs. I told him of the cheating and the divorce that was being forced down my throat.
He said "Arnold, I have represented many men in your situation. Many times, they are in such pain, they concede way too much, in an effort to just make the pain stop. Do not do this, as you will regret it in time."
He was so right. I regretted every concession I made and resented the unfair result I got(I was an idiot).
Second time through it, I got a good attorney who would slap me if I tried making concessions.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She also told me that OM freaked out and cut it off, and that he told his wife.


Are you absolutely sure? Do you want to confirm it?


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Are you absolutely sure? Do you want to confirm it?


At this point, I don't really want to confirm it, no. However I fully realize that I may need to at some point, if for no other reason that trying to rebuild trust.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

IMO, you have an ethical/moral obligation to inform the guy's wife.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Arnold said:


> IMO, you have an ethical/moral obligation to inform the guy's wife.


I said that to W immediately after she confessed, finally. She was mortified, and didn't understand why (shocker) I would feel the obligation to inform OM's wife.

As I understand it, OM didn't want his W to find out from anyone else (i.e., me) and told her himself. I'm inclined to believe this because I know him, but I still of course don't trust him. I'll wait to see if the signs are there, then if nothing shows up on the radar, I'll investigate the situation further.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

It is weird, isn't it. It seems a lot of us are inclined to beleive our cheating spouses, despite the fact that they just revealed the fact that they are fully capable of lying about one of the most scared things in life.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

So after a day or so of being remorseful and generally sad, she's back to being pissed off and mean. Doesn't look like she's looking for reconciliation, and her espoused goal of good communication and friendship is going to be damn near impossible if she keeps that up.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

This is "the fog". This is why its important to follow-up with OMW. Usually best move to help them stay out of the fog. She'll be battling a chemical addiction created by her interaction with the OM. It really is equivalent to a drug withdrawal.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Does not appear to me that she is "battling" anything.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> This is "the fog". This is why its important to follow-up with OMW. Usually best move to help them stay out of the fog. She'll be battling a chemical addiction created by her interaction with the OM. It really is equivalent to a drug withdrawal.


I agree with Arnold, she doesn't appear to be battling anything. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there, however. I'm not going to pursue her because A) it's counterproductive and B) I don't really feel like it. The more I think on this the more irritating and saddening it is.

Dad, wouldn't there be signs of this conflict if it were going on? Or would she be trying to hide it and just going back to what she knows? Either way, I'm tired of the BS. I've given her lots of chances, told her that I'm available if she wants to talk. MC has told her she needs to talk about her feelings, she still refuses to do so minus the 5 sentences with a teary apology. Since then, it's been clammed and just generally hostile. I told her I'd give her until this Thursday's appointment before I did anything, but as things are going it doesn't look like she's doing anything with that time other than to just be pissed at me for taking away her lover.

This effing blows.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Just do some reading on the "fog" and take note of the chemical changes happening in her brain as such. 

Ever seen a person "detoxing" or coming off their habit? They get pretty cranky. Your wife has been indulging in dopamine with another man. If she's not getting the dopamine rush from you, she's gonna be cranky for a while.

Remember, you can only control your behavior, not hers. of course she's angry she lost her "lover". its affecting her bad! I'm not giving her an excuse, just saying to concentrate on being the best man you can be, and maybe she'll get hooked on you with as a new dopamine source again.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

I just asked her if she was angry at me, at she went on to outline the "reasons" for her anger. The usual stuff like the affair isn't the reason we are getting a divorce, and she'd beed done a long time ago. Blameshifting and all that, I know it's happening, but it just feels so wrong to let her accuse me for the deterioration of our marriage. She also keeps saying that I'm blaming her for everything, which I've never said and continue to remind her of that.

I think I'm just going to go with no comms and make other plans. This would be so much easier if there weren't children involved.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

so sorry for your situation, silver. yea - stuff she is doing is quite normal. Not acceptable for sure, but quite normal.

i recommend you read the following three books (if I or someone hasn't already mentioned them) to help you out:

1 - No More Mr Nice Guy
2 - Hold on to your NU*Z
3 - Married Mans Sex Life Primer

Time to resume your manhood and be the man she married. In my opinion, the advice in these books is spot on. Will help you in your own personal life (whether or not you stay married or move on) - but it helped my marriage out. 

I'm still a work in progress and my marriage is getting better every day, even with occasional setbacks - we are moving forward!


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

DAd is right. This is quite common. Unfortunately , many of these cheating types fil to realize that it is during this pahse that a lot of the irreparable damage is done. Things said, continued lying, balming etc, often tips the BS over the edge and he or she divorces.

I am not sure if it is actula "fog" like chemical withdrawal or it is, in fact, just them showing us who they reallyvare, at heart. I think it is the revelation of what type of person we really married that motivates many BSs to divorce.
I am dealing with something similar with my heroin addicted son. He is a complete jerk most of the time and I wonder if it is the drugs or he is just a narcissist.
Regardless of cause, your wife continues to be abusive. sometimes, you just need to get away from that.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, however I've been doing the 180 and being the "man she married" for 11 months, which is when she told me she was done. I've since found out that her affair started well before then. All my 180ing has done is irritate her ("Why didn't you do that before? You're only doing this because you are lazy and don't want to give up your lifestyle") and frankly I'm done doing things for her.

When the 180 really started to feel good was when I truly started doing it for myself. And so I soldier on, resent her a little more each day, and make other plans.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Regardless of cause, your wife continues to be abusive. sometimes, you just need to get away from that.


Which, by the way, is apparently my fault. I've made her bitter, so she can't interact with me any other way, or so she says.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Sliver, I has this same situation. esentially, they leave you no choice when they act like this.
As a last measure, have you considered trying counseling with these Harlley folks over at marriagebuilders?
I have no idea if the claims of high success rates are true. But, if you try something like that, at least if you have to walk away, you will not be second guessing yourself re whether you could have done more.
I thyink what some BSs fail to realize is that the chance to recover is , to an exteremely large extent, dependant on the WS and whether thye have an epiphany. It seems that this happens very rarely.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Well - Silvery - thats the part of the 180 you aren't doing so well - allowing her resentment (her gaslighting and blameshifting) to bother you.

Remember, you are happier than you've ever been. Her issues are well.... hers.

She's pissed because you are moving on with your life and she feels like she will be left alone. Tell her she is responsible for her own happiness and if she doesn't nothing about it then - she won't be happy. 

The damned well know that they make themselves bitter. They are just blaming you for letting them do this. Glad to hear that you've been doing 180 for 11 months now.

Get her a cake and tell her you won't stop her from eating this - as it won't affect your marriage like the other cake she was eating.

LOL.


----------



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Arnold said:


> You seem to have a pretty good handle on the fact that it was her lack of communication that was the major reason that she kept herself in that place, with her resentment and feelings. Had she acted responsibly, honestly and morally, and told you of her disatisfaction, things would , probably, have never gotten this bad(you don't strike me as the type of person who would blow her off had she expressed herself).
> At this point, your wife in majorly invested in promoting the idea that your deficiencies casued this. Many studies, however, have reached the conclusion that, in fact, the main contributor to pre-affair problems was the cheater.
> Makes sense, as the cheater has demonstrated poor communication and problem solving skills, lack of integrity and empathy and, in general, qualities that make for a poor mate.
> At this point, so soon after discovery, many betrayed spouses are just dying to accept the blame. The are devesated, traumatized beyond beleif and do not have the rationality or strenght to see that they may have contributd to some pre affair problems, but their spouse did ,as well(usually moreso).
> ...


Yep, all of this is happening to me too. I am sorry SAHD to 3-- my WH was my SAHD to 3 beautiful daughters.... he is a moron to throw that away


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I thyink what some BSs fail to realize is that the chance to recover is , to an exteremely large extent, dependant on the WS and whether thye have an epiphany. It seems that this happens very rarely.


I have realized it and, truth be told, I believed that she would be able to do it. I realize now, since discovering the affair, that her emotional connection with someone else wouldn't allow her to reconnect with me. Thinking the coast was clear, I had the expectation (especially after her remorseful day) that she'd just be sad and withdrawn. I didn't expect the ire, and was ill prepared to deal with it.

There may still be an epiphany on her part, I am just no longer expecting it.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Well - Silvery - thats the part of the 180 you aren't doing so well - allowing her resentment (her gaslighting and blameshifting) to bother you.


You're absolutely right. However, because I still care about her, it does bother me. Is there some switch people throw to stop giving a sh!t about their spouse?



Dadof3 said:


> She's pissed because you are moving on with your life and she feels like she will be left alone. Tell her she is responsible for her own happiness and if she doesn't nothing about it then - she won't be happy.


Her response to that is she is taking control of her happiness by divorcing me. I have no answer for that, save the epiphany Arnold and I were just discussing.



Dadof3 said:


> Get her a cake and tell her you won't stop her from eating this - as it won't affect your marriage like the other cake she was eating.
> 
> LOL.


Damn, but I wish I could. Thanks for the reply


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I was on the fence re pulling the plug for a while, silvery. So, I put a firm date in place, beyond which I would not toelrate the abuse any more. Once i had that in place, knowint that this would come to an end one way or another at some definite point, I was relieved.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> Yep, all of this is happening to me too. I am sorry SAHD to 3-- my WH was my SAHD to 3 beautiful daughters.... he is a moron to throw that away


I feel the same, but we can't convince anyone that they're making a mistake; they have to come to that conclusion on their own.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I was on the fence re pulling the plug for a while, silvery. So, I put a firm date in place, beyond which I would not toelrate the abuse any more. Once i had that in place, knowint that this would come to an end one way or another at some definite point, I was relieved.


There has been lots of great advice lately, but that's probably the most useful advice I've seen during this entire process.

I need to set a very specific limitation on timeline, so here it goes. If things haven't markedly improved and she still doesn't appear to be interested in me at all by the New Year, I'll be done.
Done. Filing for divorce, no longer tolerating the beratement... done.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Good. Now the ball is in her court and you know that you will not be dealing with this next year. Feel better?

Oh, did I mention I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

Actually, I do feel better. And I've been thinking about that as well, just spending some time away. Hurts to be away from the kids, but it hurts more to be near her.

Thanks again.


----------



## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

You have to accept the cards you are dealt. If she does not want to stay with you, what can you do other than seeking D? Detach your feelings for her and brace yourself for the eventual D. Since A has been exposed and she should know she has no future with OM, there may come a time until the new year she realize what she's doing. 

Just stay cordial and nice to her in the meantime hoping for the best. But, at the same time prepare for the worst.


----------



## silveryposter (Jul 30, 2011)

MC session on Thursday, yesterday. MC talked about indebtedness, and how I am indebted to her for not taking care of her emotional needs for several years, and how she is indebted to me for having an affair.

She didn't really say much, so I spoke and said that I think she doesn't feel like she's indebted to me at all. She considered for a moment, and said that was accurate. Our MC, who prior to the affair discovery was pretty much on her side, told her straight up "You are absolutely indebted to him, you betrayed him". He's been very supportive and not said anything that may put her ill at ease up to that point. My heart cheered a little bit to hear that from someone other than my friends.

I can't tell whether that really impacted her or not, because she doesn't really ever talk about her feelings. She kept trying to take it back to minute details about me "threatening" to tell people about the affair. She says I threatened her to come MC, among other things. I told her that I've explained many times what I meant, and I'm not going to discuss it any more.

At the end, he asked if we wanted another session. Up to this point, I would say yes immediately. However, this time I remained silent. W asked me why I wasn't talking, and I told her it was her call. She asked why it was her call and I told her that if she wants to come again, I will absolutely be there. But I wasn't going to make the decision for her.

Her response was, "Yes, I think it's been helping". Ambiguous, but she made the call and wanted to come back. Another time during this same session, MC asked me if she opened her heart to me and wanted to try if I would receive it, and my answers was "I don't know". Prior to affair and her not feeling any indebtedness toward me, I would have exclaimed, "Yes! I just want her to try!" Now however, I truly don't know.

I'm not sure if this will have any impact on her or not. I don't really care to remain married the person that she has become, and to be honest I don't really want to be friends with that person either. If our 3 kids weren't in the equation I likely would have stopped the moment I found out about the affair. However, since we do have children, I do hope for a friendship at some point in the future. But it's going to take some serious soul searching on her part.

She's still in the "fog" and still pining after OM. She looks at his FB daily, even though as far as I know she hasn't contacted him and he hasn't contacted her. She still looks up sad song lyrics that describe her sad situation, like "Hate it here" by Wilco (yet another song that will forever be tainted by this effing affair). She looked up songs about being second best chasing after a guy a few days ago.

I think she's not sad because she hurt me, indeed I really don't think it matters to her much at all. She sad because she lost her lover, and he chose his wife over her. Our friendship depends on her breaking out of this damn fog and seeing what's real. I just don't know that it's going to happen in a timeframe where it will be useful to us.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Kids or not, I think anyone is better off when the cheater has no remorse.


----------

