# conflicted feelings - please help



## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

Hi,

I'm new here. Have been reading for a while and was hoping to get some input from those that have gone through a similar situation (spouse cheating on them).

I found out about my husband's affair about 4 months ago when I caught them together. Even though I SAW them together he tried to lie about the extent of their involvement to cover his butt. It wasn't until after 3 weeks of questions and then finding incriminating email that he finally owned up to sleeping with her for months. I doubt he would have ever told me if I hadn't insisted or found those emails . He says he felt he was 'protecting me' by not telling me - I think that's now he rationalized it to himself but I think it was an excuse. He says the affair ended the day i caught them.

We've had a lot of ups and downs since but our marriage is now better then it has ever been (it was really not good before). BUT it's only been 4 months and his affair and lies have caused a lot of doubts for me. I can't trust him and have a lot of triggers. He's always open to talking about how I feel and answering any questions I have and initially I feel good about talking to him but then more doubts creep in after the fact - ie is he being truthful now, or just saying what he thinks I want to hear, if he's done it once will he do it again etc.

I haven't found any indications to worry but also feel that unless I do i'll never know otherwise (since he didn't 'confess' until he had no way out). I feel like I need to enjoy the good (considerable improvements in our marriage and in his behaviors/personality) and give it time to see if it lasts/stays good but those darn doubts keep coming back.

How do you deal with the doubts and the lack of trust long enough to enjoy the good? I feel like I have one foot in and one foot out preparing myself for the worst.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My goodness, you sound just like me, except I am the husband, and my wife didn't sleep with her affair partner - she fell in love with him though.

I am also about 4 months out. And my wife lied several times to cover things up until I had irrefutable evidence. The trust part is so hard. I still don't trust that she's ended all contact with him with 100% certainty. This doesn't mean I think she HAS contacted him, but I'm in the "I just don't know for sure" mode.

Unfortunately, I think it takes a lot of time and proof positive to get back to normal. But here's the hardest part about that. With technology we have, email, texts, facebook, IM, etc, there really is no way to completely know if communication has stopped. I caught my wife via her email. So of course they wouldnt do that again. Then I caught texting. Now, she has promised they haven't spoken in 3 months. Well, okay, but I have no way of knowing for sure, and that's the toughest part about this.

It is also hard to be 100% devoted to reconciling when lingering doubts prevail. We are reconciling, but have had ups and downs during the process. There are times when I think our marriage is better than ever, and then there are times when I think it's all going to explode and end. There is nothing easy about infidelity. I have heard it takes an average of 2-3 years to get over it, and some never do.


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## girlfromipanema (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm about 9 months out and I understand the up and downs. I've read it takes about 2 years to fully recover from an affair.

I don't know how to trust. I suppose with time it will get better, but I occasionally investigate to ensure nothing has gone underground. There are extenuating circumstances in our situation that pretty much guarantee the affair will never reignite, but you just never know. Trust but verify, they say. The only way I can verify is to snoop, but it's hard when you're married to a technology genius.

My husband also used the excuse that he wanted to protect me. Bulls***. He was protecting himself, as was yours.

I wish you the best. I do a lot of reading and practice 'higher thinking'. I've grown so much stronger as a result.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

girlfromipanema said:


> My husband also used the excuse that he wanted to protect me. Bulls***. He was protecting himself, as was yours.


Exactly! If "protecting you" was so important, he wouldn't have had sex with someone else, potentially exposing you to STD's and risking tearing apart your life and family. Nope. He was protecting himself only.


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

That's exactly it. Everything he did he did for himself. 

For the first 2-3 months he didn't even see anything wrong with the things he did that led up to sleeping with her (flirting, keeping her secrets, sharing issues we were having, seeing her secretly almost daily etc.) and didn't see why these things would be an issue in the future with 'friends'. Flirting to him is second nature as is being that shoulder to cry on (always for other woman) always has been. He desperately needs to feel that he is being a 'good friend'. 

I don't have an issue with being a good friend but I do when you do it to get something your not getting in your marriage and/or keep it a secret and don't get me started on friendships that are filled with sexual tension via flirting!!! Not acceptable in my book! And he knows it loud and clear now!!

After some counseling and time and reading he says he understands where the boundaries are and how these types of things are not only risky but wrong and will no longer do them. And that you can be a 'good friend' without crossing boundaries.

So he is saying all the right things but since he lied so much and those 'wrong' things have been part of his personality for 20+ yrs it's very difficult to believe that he truly feels that way now. 

He says that he won't live his life being defined as a cheater. I think what he means by that is having to always be checked on, questioned and assumed guilty vs innocent until proven guilty. He understands that right now and for some time to come it is necessary, but not 10yrs from now if he's done nothing in that time to indicate that he's cheating. But when he says that all i can think about is that he tried to cover his butt at all costs and not until proven guilty did he admit sleeping with her.... URG!!!

*
So after all that, here is my question, can/should everything go forward be defined by his actions - specifically the action of lieing until i was able to prove he was lieing?*

2-3 yrs is a long time to be this conflicted!! and I wonder if the 2-3 yrs is for the affair or/and the lies associated with it? anyone know?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> *
> So after all that, here is my question, can/should everything go forward be defined by his actions - specifically the action of lieing until i was able to prove he was lieing?*


I feel the entirety of this is about what YOU think and what YOU feel. The answers will be influenced by his actions, but the ultimate decision-maker here is YOU. he doesn't get to decide on a timeline for how long you will feel the need to check on him. He doesn't get to decide about being defined as a cheater.

When someone takes drugs repeatedly and can't stop, they're a drug addict. they can deny it, not like the lable, or whatever -- but they're still an addict...and the most successful recoveries come from those who can say "Hi, my name is Joe, and I'm an addict"................ Step 1 is admitting you've got a problem. 

he may be doing & saying many of the right/good things, but I feel he's got a ways to go yet before you'll be able to trust him. He's already trying to deflect...


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

2xloser - can you please tell me more about what you mean about him 'deflecting'? in what way?


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

i was just reading another thread and was getting very upset because it rang true for me then it turned to be very positive so i had to share! what do you think?

Someone was obsessing over the OW... response was "It's a power thing - you feel like she has power over you because of what she took from you (what your husband gave to her). I think the only way you can really get it back is if your husband snubs her, publicly (with other witnesses), in front of you. No idea how to make that happen." (posted by butwehavekids on another board). Then someone said "I think the best snub would be for your spouse to pull you in for a long kiss in front of the Other person. I know i've had dreams of this."

My husband has done this several times! First on his own then i made some comment about how it made me feel better so then he did it more and more and still does it (unfortunately we see her often). Out of the corner of my eye i can see her steaming every time!! she always walks off in a huff! Makes me feel great!!!

But then i always wonder WHY it still bothers her? does she still have feelings for him (and thus i have something to worry about) or is she just pissed that she and her husband aren't close (they don't seem to be).

Anyway, what do you guys think? should this act of 'snubbing' make me happy? or am i missing something?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well yeah. That's what a betrayal is... deception. Cheating is giving someone something that belonged to your partner. 

It sucks. 

After, did you ever tell the OW' shusband??? If not, do it today. ANd do so without telling your husband or the OW first so they don't have time to cooroborate their stories.

I am sorry you found out by "catching them together." I can't imagine a worse way of finding out.  Hugs to you.

Do you want to stay married to him or not? 

You are prob glad to see him snubbing her in front of you. Why do you guys still see her though??? He should have ZERO contact with her AT ALL. FOREVER. (If he's sincere about wanting the marriage).

Did you kick him out after you found out? Have their been any consequences?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> 2xloser - can you please tell me more about what you mean about him 'deflecting'? in what way?


You say that "he"won't live his life being defined as a cheater"...?? This is not YOUR doing, it is his. That statement sounds way too much like an ultimatum to me... "forgive me and move on, or live without me" is the undertone. Not acceptable. You didn't cheat; he did. The consequences of that cheating + the ongoing lying about it afterward results in you never totally 100% trusing him again, because he has _proven _himself to be a cheater, whether he likes or accepts the label or not. It is a fact. Cheaters lie, and that compounds the issue exponenitally every time. You are living proof of this, just as I am.

And as a further result, he does not get to dictate whether that will take you 3 months, 3 years, or 3 decades to remove any shadow of a doubt, and any assumed guilt or innocence. That is earned over time, and 100% up to you and how you feel. It cannot be forced, coerced, demanded, or extracted from someone. It just "is", at some point.

Yes time will heal... IF his remorse and actions hold true to helping YOU to heal appropriately. He's already begun making this about him and once again what HE needs, not enough about you and what YOU need from what I read in your posts. I'm sure there's more/better storyline underneath that has gotten you to this 'good place', but it sounds like you're doubts and hesiations, well-founded based on his prior actions, are a sticking point.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> i was just reading another thread and was getting very upset because it rang true for me then it turned to be very positive so i had to share! what do you think?
> 
> Someone was obsessing over the OW... response was "It's a power thing - you feel like she has power over you because of what she took from you (what your husband gave to her). I think the only way you can really get it back is if your husband snubs her, publicly (with other witnesses), in front of you. No idea how to make that happen." (posted by butwehavekids on another board). Then someone said "I think the best snub would be for your spouse to pull you in for a long kiss in front of the Other person. I know i've had dreams of this."
> 
> ...


To me that sounds like a childish immature way of gameplaying trying to prove something to the ow. I would think silence and ignoring her would be a lot more dignified. If I were the ow in this case, I would think you were trying way to hard to prove you won and it would look desperate to me. 

If your husband is doing the work required for reconciliation why go there?


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

Jellybeans - yes OWsH knows... i made sure of it. We see her often because she is our neighbor ;(

2xloser - thanks for explaining. I've struggled with understanding what REAL consequences he has had? he had an affair, got caught, was exposed to our families, he was out of the house for 2 days (only 2 because I didn't want our toddler to be impacted until I knew what I was going to do so he came back but slept in another room for a months) and he walked on eggshells for a while, so a month or two of 'shame' ... bad but not the end of the world...so why not do it again?

But now I start to realize that there are more consequences like the fact that he won't be trusted for a very long time and there will never be blind trust again, he has to live with being a cheater, plus not sure it's a 'consequence' per say but he's had to change his basic behaviors too (he was verbally abuse, disrespectful, a 'father' in name only, and felt intimidation was the way to get things done - but not since d-day).

I agree that sometimes he makes it about himself but as time passes and we go to MC,more and more he seems to 'see' that he needs to make it more about my needs and not his. He just needs to be reminded!! Which worries me.

Thank you for your input!!


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

southernmagnolia said:


> To me that sounds like a childish immature way of gameplaying trying to prove something to the ow. I would think silence and ignoring her would be a lot more dignified. If I were the ow in this case, I would think you were trying way to hard to prove you won and it would look desperate to me.
> 
> If your husband is doing the work required for reconciliation why go there?



In a way i guess you are correct - it is game playing but for her 'winning' is everything. I firmly believe that part of the reason she did it was purely to prove that she could 'win over' my husband. She has a need to prove she's better then others (it was obvious in all aspects of her life) and sleeping with him proved to her that she was better then me. *She's not.* Never will be because i'm not an adulterer, home wrecker or crazy pathetic b*tch who feels my value is based solely on how many friends i can buy or do favors for so they will like me. 

I don't measure myself based on who i'm better than or how many friends i have - ie how many people *use* me and pretend I'm their friend because they know that's what i need. How do I know this about her? Her husband told me!

Sorry I'm venting now!

I know his affection causes her pain and I want her to feel some - even if it is only a tiny bit compared to what she caused.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

southernmagnolia said:


> To me that sounds like a childish immature way of gameplaying trying to prove something to the ow. I would think silence and ignoring her would be a lot more dignified. If I were the ow in this case, I would think you were trying way to hard to prove you won and it would look desperate to me.
> 
> If your husband is doing the work required for reconciliation why go there?


:iagree: it is so hard to take the high road sometimes. In this case, however, too obvious a game and frankly I'd be a teeny bit suspicious about why he was trying so hard.

Best thing I've heard from my WW during this rollercoaster ride was when I asked her what she thought about the OM now (wondering if she were secretly pining for him), she shrugged and said she simply didn't care either way about him at all, she was simply focused on us.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> In a way i guess you are correct - it is game playing but for her 'winning' is everything. I firmly believe that part of the reason she did it was purely to prove that she could 'win over' my husband. She has a need to prove she's better then others (it was obvious in all aspects of her life) and sleeping with him proved to her that she was better then me. *She's not.* Never will be because i'm not an adulterer, home wrecker or crazy pathetic b*tch who feels my value is based solely on how many friends i can buy or do favors for so they will like me.
> 
> I don't measure myself based on who i'm better than or how many friends i have - ie how many people *use* me and pretend I'm their friend because they know that's what i need. How do I know this about her? Her husband told me!
> 
> ...



I get it and completely understand why you are pissed but from how you described her, she probably sees you two doing that and in her delusion thinks that you are somehow making him kiss you to get one up on her. Ignoring her would be the best thing imo. 

Why are you two hanging out in places she is at, anyway?

Also, I hope you are more pissed at your husband than you are at her, you are, correct?


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

2xloser said:


> :iagree: it is so hard to take the high road sometimes. In this case, however, too obvious a game and frankly I'd be a teeny bit suspicious about why he was trying so hard.
> 
> *Yes I wonder that too, I would think he would be ashamed to be around the ow as it would remind him what an ass he was. *
> 
> Best thing I've heard from my WW during this rollercoaster ride was when I asked her what she thought about the OM now (wondering if she were secretly pining for him), she shrugged and said she simply didn't care either way about him at all, she was simply focused on us.


It sounds like things are working out well for you.

Congrats!


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

unfortunately we see her often because she is our neighbor ;(

I'm actually driving myself crazy thinking that all the time about everything he does not just this example of 'snubbing'! he could be trying to make a point that i'm more important to him (for exampling pick to be with me vs hang out with his buddies on Friday night) , that he'll do what ever it takes to make me feel better, or he could be doing it to cover up something... how do you ever really know?

that last time I asked my WH what he thought about the OW he said he 'felt like he was played' and feels 'nothing for her'. 'she's over there and where over here and [he] only cares about us'.

i want to believe but how can i ...


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

imho, you let time prove him right, and be willing to trust your gut on the positive side just as you should on the negative side.

There's no magic. But if he is doing all the right things, it's all you can ask for. The mental energy on 'what if' will exhaust you.

As the wise people here like to say, in working toward R with a willing WS: "Trust, but verify"..... and in real R, an important part of verifying is to communicate your real feelings and let him help you through it.


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

I have to go away for work for 5 days ... although i've seen no indication that WS has made contact with OW since D-Day i fear she will either reach out to him or he will to her and they will meet. I had a nightmare about it last night ;( 

It is exactly what 2xloser said 'the what if...is exhausting' but i don't know what to do about it. 

He has promised NC and that if she does he will tell me immediately but the 'what if' is always there. 

I believe he does want to make things work with us but i also feel that she wishes they were still having the affair so worried what he will do if she reaches out to him.

This trip is supposed to be a great opportunity for me but as it gets closer I don't want to go ;( i have to but i know i'll be making myself sick the entire time and not enjoying it. I don't want to leave him alone with lots of opportunities to have unaccounted for time. I'm not there yet. What if anything can I do?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> I have to go away for work for 5 days ... although i've seen no indication that WS has made contact with OW since D-Day i fear she will either reach out to him or he will to her and they will meet. I had a nightmare about it last night ;(
> 
> It is exactly what 2xloser said 'the what if...is exhausting' but i don't know what to do about it.
> 
> ...


You can have him check in with you (text, email, skype, chat, phone) CONSTANTLY... and tell him in advance you will be doing the same in reverse.

At the end of the day, I came to the conclusion that if she was gonna cheat again, there was little to nothing I could do to stop it. Regardless of whether the AP contacts them or not, it comes down to defining "Now that you're caught, do I believe you will do it again?" Unfortunately the answer is often Yes, but everyone's unique, it all depends on the person, situation, etc. 

This is really more about making you *feel* a bit better during your time away than what is actually going on or not. Frequent contact both ways can help you through... and understanding his openness, sensitivity, and willingness to go out of his way to do so will tell you a lot before you even go.


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

RWB - we discussed 'being defined as a cheater' at counseling. He said it was more that for example in 10 yrs from now, if he had done NOTHING during that time for me to question his commitment to me but then something happened (an email or conversation that made me raise an eyebrow) that made me have questions or doubts he would hope that I wouldn't automatically assume that he was cheating. That instead i'd ask what ever questions I had to help resolve the doubts and if necessary even ask anyone involved in the conversation or email etc to try to do so. Having said that if for example he was away for work and someone said something like 'hey what happened to you and Susie last night, you disappeared after supper and we couldn't find either of you until we saw you at breakfast', then that's a different story and yes I'd likely jump straight to 'he's cheating'. So it was all a matter of 'what' triggered the questions/doubts.

2xloser - as I was reading about having him text/email me the first thought I had was, 'we'll he can easily do that and then also meet up with her', but as I read on i understood what the point of it was. Not to ensure he was busy and couldn't see her but rather that he'd make the effort to do so to make me feel better about it. That him doing it meant more. I have to say that i do feel he'd understand that and if I said, 'i feel insecure about this and need you to do x', he'd do it without hesitation. And yes that shows and means a lot - but it's difficult to not think 'what if'... what if he's doing that but then after I go to bed he's meeting up with her or texting her... URG! I hate these doubts and feelings!

I've read about so many cases where the WS seems to be doing all the right things and then a year+ later the BS finds out he's been making contact with OW and it's all been a lie - that is always in the back of my mind. If they want to cheat they will, if they want to stay in contact they will. There's always a way to do it and cover it up... how can you live knowing that? and i fear that even if i left him and then had another relationship i'd still have those doubts about the new person... I don't think I can ever trust anyone again. ;(


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

2xloser, i agree that if they want to be in contact or to continue the affair I can do little to nothing about it. And 'do I believe he'll do it again', yes if a similar situation presented itself. How can I not since it's already happened. That is what I struggle with daily... do i want to be with a person that could do it again. Do i want to be in relationship where I always need to ensure he is happy and thus not want to have an affair? 

But the more and more I read it seems that if you don't make that effort even if your spouse hasn't had an affair they likely will. That just boggles my mind. I've been unhappy for years and had several opportunities to have affairs but didn't. I was not going to cross that line while married and I know there are others out there like me. I had thought about divorce and was almost there when I caught him with OW.

I know marriage takes hard work but always being afraid that the other person will cheat if they aren't happy is hard to accept. Is that really what our life has now become? How do you live with that?? What can help??

Maybe that need (ensuring the other person is happy) is always the case but until it slaps us in the face we don't see it...


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