# Boring, normal, ordinary and still painful



## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

There is nothing happening in my marriage that sent me here (after a lot of lurking and reading common experiences) that is not happening to thousands of couples all over the world. At least, that's what I'm guessing based on what I'm reading. Having said that, I sure could use some advice. And someone to talk to.

Talking points:

- Married almost 15 years. 
- Eloped after dating for 5 weeks. 
- Two teenaged children. 
- I am almost a decade older than he is
- We work in the same industry, sometimes for the same employer.
- We are both highly intelligent (read: skeptical)
- He appears to have lost interest in sex
- I am constantly nagging him about hygeine
- He doesn't seem to want to engage with me (no discussing politics, planning life things)
- When I ask about his day, he never wants to talk about it
- When we do talk, it's typically at some time very inconvenient to me (eg, when I am falling asleep)
- Typically when he engages with me, it feels like he is doing so to pick a fight.
- Most of what he does say to me sounds highly critical or a shallow attempt at being nice
- Attempts at marital therapy exercises rapidly devolve into fights.

There was more, but I forgot it. The list is too long, anyway. I am so lonely, to the point where it has become difficult to concentrate on other things. I get that he works long hours and that there are a lot of people demanding his time and attention, so that when he comes home, he pretty much wants to crawl into a hole and hide. But he is not making time for me, at all. Many times I will have to repeat something to ensure that he's heard it (often being snapped at), or later be told I never said anything (when I did). I've asked him if he feels depressed, because things he's said indicates he might be (eg, a lack of desire to do things he used to enjoy).

Our life has brought a number of big changes in the past year, most of them hugely positive. Things that we both worked very hard to achieve have come to fruition. Having reached that brass ring, he seems to have gone into a funk. Where I thought this would give us an opportunity to do more things together, he's just become withdrawn. 

Instead of TL;DR, I'm going to stop here. As much as I'd like to go on and on and on in the way a desperate person can... Thanks for reading!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

If he IS depressed, more than likely he doesn't FEEL depressed... he just is.

I would start by getting him to a doctor. Make the appointment for him if necessary. Go with him. Make sure the doctor knows what is going on.

If he is physically OK, get to marriage counseling. Make the appointment yourself. If he refuses to go, go alone and let him know you are so he knows you are serious about this. In going alone, you will (a) learn how to change him, (b) learn how to change yourself so you accept this situation or (c) learn how to get out of this situation without him.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Bad hygeine and disinterest usually signals depression. Everything else you mentioned just points to more unhappiness. Some men will not admit they are depressed since they view it as a sign of weakness. You need to figure out if he's depressed about you or his life or whatever. It's the key to helping you figure out what needs to happen next.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Ah, the brass ring. 
You've worked hard, have what you need, and what you think you wanted. So how come you aren't happy?

Is he still working long hours, or do you have time to spend together now? I wasn't sure on that?

And what is the brass ring, for you. And is it the same thing for him?


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

Has he gone through funks before? Has life with him, up until now, been great? Or, are you finally at the breaking point? This cannot be sustained. I agree with the MC advice, if only to let your H know that the marriage is in trouble.

It would be terribly sad to end the marriage, with two kids, and finally achieving what you've been working so hard for. Try all kinds of ways to open up the conversation with him of what went wrong and if it can be fixed. Tell him that you're going to fight for this marriage, but he needs to meet you, if not half way, at least part of the way. If you think he's depressed, then drag his a$$ to the doctor because you love him.

I'm not saying to bail right away, but if years have gone by and things don't/haven't changed, then you have to do what is right for yourself, which might mean leaving. A life of unhappiness, not being fulfilled, not being listened to is not an option.


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## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply, all of you! Your questions have bumped me a bit farther along in processing this.

Lemme try to bundle:

- I've been to a counselor alone, twice. 
- He had bad hygeine when we first married, but it got better for a while. Now it's bad again.
- Pretty sure he doesn't FEEL depressed at all. But it's very likely. I've done a lot of reading on how to support a depressed spouse, but a lot of it is contradictory. 
- I am looking into the doctor visit (he doesn't really have one)
- I'm not going anywhere. Marriages go through phases. I've had bad years, and he's stuck by me. I love him.
- My family *IS* my brass ring. His was making sure the kids get to go to college and we get to retire. 
- Yep. He's had other funks. And, too, I think we're both in a funk right now.


It's very easy for me to set my funk aside, I think. I'm old enough now to know that slumps are temporary, and our marriage has survived more than one. The no sex thing is new, though. And alarming.

Again, thank you. **HUGS**


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

How did the no sex thing come about? Was it a slow progression or a sudden one that was triggered by something? 

How does that relate to the difficulties you two have had with communicating and talking about life goals and stuff?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Curiously, the MLC comes to mind. 
Work hard, do all the right things, things are not super great in the marriage, but you stay together for the kids. Assumptions that you will always stay together, retire, do stuff.
My family, as opposed to our family?

Problem is, years of resentments get in the way.

I'll ask again. What does he want from his life? Now that the brass ring is done.


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## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> How did the no sex thing come about? Was it a slow progression or a sudden one that was triggered by something?


Slow progression. Very hit or miss for a while. No mostly miss, very little hit.



KathyBatesel said:


> How does that relate to the difficulties you two have had with communicating and talking about life goals and stuff?


At first thought, it seems that if I plotted a curve of these two things, there would be an equally steady decline in both.


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## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

deejov said:


> Curiously, the MLC comes to mind.
> Work hard, do all the right things, things are not super great in the marriage, but you stay together for the kids. Assumptions that you will always stay together, retire, do stuff. My family, as opposed to our family?
> 
> Problem is, years of resentments get in the way.
> ...


Every time I ask, the answer is different. (ETA: I will ask again.)

My choice of pronoun (my instead of our) is less indicative of a state where I am not feeling inclusive, but likely reflects the fact that I come from a very broken, messed up family. So I met someone normal and stable, acquired him and proceeded to make children with him. It definitely implies subpar laterality (and now I'll be thinking about that, as well), but I feel like the head of the family most of the time. Think, "I made this family. It is mine." But yeah, it should be "ours."


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

So a steady decline in sexual & emotional intimacy. Plus a good chance that each of you face some challenges now about what your purpose in life is now that you've reached the major goals you've had. 

Sounds to me like it's time to start dressing up, working out, and taking up a hobby or two. This serves to shake things up in a way that is not full of blame, but makes him wonder if he's pulling his weight or not. Invite him along for the ride into tomorrow together.

The idea is to reintroduce the girl he fell in love with in your more mature, beautiful form.


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## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

I smiled at the picture of this, but personal upkeep happens to be one of the problems. I go to the gym 3x a week and play recreational sports 2x a week. He does not exercise at all, and this is taking at toll on his health, such that even though I am older than he is, I am also in better health. 

I often wonder if this is part of the decline in the sex life, as well. It's not difficult to think of many reasons.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Ok, so what is the reason he's checking out of your relationship? 

What are things he has complained about?


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## PequenoSueno (Mar 4, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Ok, so what is the reason he's checking out of your relationship?
> 
> What are things he has complained about?


The only complaint he has made is that he resents that I hold a grudge for things that he did when he was younger. I don't, but he thinks I do.

Not that I don't resent stuff from time to time, mind you. Eg, I end up doing more housework because I have higher standards. That sort of thing.

After that, whenever the topic of "happiness with the relationship" comes up, provided we are not fighting, he tells me how I've made him a better person and that I was the best decision he's ever made. I'm his favorite person and best friend. Stuff like that. During fights, though, he says things like, "We never talk about MY issues." Okay, please tell me about your issues. I would very much like to hear them. "You don't want to hear it. You never want to hear it." Yes, I very much do.

And I do. But he never says anything meaningful. Outside of that one resentment -- I almost felt joy when I heard that, because there's finally something I can change, right? I can be more careful with word and deed to make sure I'm not constantly bringing up the past.

I've put so much thought into this. Maybe he just genuinely sucks at companionship. In the same way that there are good musicians and bad ones, good drivers and irritating drivers, professional athletes and professional couch surfers... not everyone can be good at everything. So I have come to terms with the idea that perhaps he's just bad at meeting my needs, no matter how clearly I articulate them (he asks), and also that he might never get any better. Telling myself that helps with the feeling that he's just not trying.

So then I wonder, if this relationship is not meeting my need for intimacy and general closeness and I'm not allowed to go outside of the relationship for that, how do I ameliorate this need? I have female friends, but none of them are easy to be close to.

ETA: I did bring up the fact that he spends a lot of time on online forums, interacting with strangers, and that I would love to have some of that attention. He said that it is easier to debate with strangers because he's not invested in them. I'm not exactly sure what this means, but I responded by saying that the amount of time he's spending on the computer is upsetting me, and the kids as well. When I told him he seemed very tuned out from his family, he said, "You're right, I am." But I did not think to ask, "Why do you think that is?" When it comes up again, I'll ask, but it never goes well if I just bring things up out of the blue. I can't just say, "I feel like you're ignoring me," without starting a fight.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

He's checked out. 

I don't know you, can only guess from what you have written.

But there's a few hints in what you say.
He has said a few things about not feeling heard. Maybe that is why he doesn't talk anymore.

You do seem "centered" on what you want, use the I statements, and it starts a fight. Your needs are not being met, and that is your main focus. And maybe going elsewhere to get your needs met?

All I can say is...
Listen. 
It seems to me that he does have a lot of stuff on his mind. 
But when it's asked as "I feel like you are ignoring me", it becomes about you, and not about what he wants and what his issues are.

Take a HUGE step back. Acknowledge that it hasn't been roses and sunshine. The past issues have caught up to you.

At this point, I would think you would need to re-boot how you look at the situation. He isn't meeting any of your needs because he doesn't want to. 

Some people will leave. Some will just check out and stay together for the family's sake.




This kinda stuff can't be changed overnight.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Maybe he is depressed or has low testosterone. He should see a doc.


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