# Issue regarding finances --or maybe trust



## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

gone


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Imho, first thought is you both are a married team.

Continuing; and especially because you've demonstrated you accept her as a whole team member with the demonstration of how you handled the 1.3mil inheritance.....she should do the same with her inheritance, showing you she's long accepted you as a whole team member.

Or at least got your input on what your opinions are on handling finances as the future progresses other than just telling you.

Like the common adages on finances in a marriage; nothing tests marriages like times of hardships or times of excess. 

May be deeper issues, or to take a contradictory position it may just be she's a poor communicator. 

Only you know more on the situation. 

If you pass first, or divorce, just don't doubt some of your money will be spent with her new "guy".


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

My thoughts are that she knows you are financially secure and can take care of yourself. You won't need her money. She is giving the money to the kids since they will likely need the money more than you. And I'm guessing there are tax benefits for having the money go straight to the kids rather than to you and then you dole it out. But she should have discussed a matter like this with you if nothing else to avoid these kinds of feelings you're having.


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## 67yearsyoung (Dec 10, 2019)

You said at the time you didn't "argue" about it. Did you discuss it, ask her why she wanted to handle her inheritance this way, share your feelings about it, etc.? From the way you wrote your post, it sounds like you passively accepted her decision and later had second thoughts that you haven't shared. Communication is everything in a marriage. It sounds like you withheld your thoughts and feelings from her (just as you think she's withholding her inheritance from you). I'm concerned this whole thing will fester inside you and come out in other ways and put a breech of trust in your marriage. It sounds like you need to communicate with your wife. It may be scary to talk about this with her. It may be easier and and more neutral to bring a marriage therapist into the discussion, if you need to.


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Imho, first thought is you both are a married team.
> 
> Continuing; and especially because you've demonstrated you accept her as a whole team member with the demonstration of how you handled the 1.3mil inheritance.....she should do the same with her inheritance, showing you she's long accepted you as a whole team member.
> 
> ...


I discussed it with her briefly, and I said "listen, if something happens to you, and I want to keep homeschooling the kids, that is going to be hard if all your money is wrapped up in a trust I can never touch, and which they won't have access to until age 25. College might be tricky to pay for"

we decided to get life insurance--so her trust still goes to the kids, but there is some added protection for me. Fair enough

but ... sh sent a message with this imho. It was a couple years ago, and it hasn't particularly hurt our marriage, but it seemed to confirm some of my suspicions regarding women.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Manny1400 said:


> I am putting this in the men's area, because I know what the women re going to say
> 
> My wife and I have been married 19 years, and for almost all of that time, she has stayed home with the kids and homeschooled. It has worked out great, and I'd like to continue with that. She is a terrific mother and wife
> 
> ...


It's her inheritance, not yours. That's the way I see it. When my mom died recently, my wife made it clear that she wouldn't be involved with the estate (I was the executor) or any inheritance I might receive. Of course I topped up all the kid's education funds, investments, and both our RRSPs with it anyway, but the point was sound.

If she were to receive one, I'd feel the same way. If she wants all that to go to your kids, then so be it. I think it's ok. I mean, you probably would have done that anyway. Since you financially looked after your kids all this time, she's probably looking to make sure she can in some way, too.

I wouldn't sweat it unless it fits into a larger picture somehow.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Manny1400 said:


> I discussed it with her briefly, and I said "listen, if something happens to you, and I want to keep homeschooling the kids, that is going to be hard if all your money is wrapped up in a trust I can never touch, and which they won't have access to until age 25. College might be tricky to pay for"
> 
> we decided to get life insurance--so her trust still goes to the kids, but there is some added protection for me. Fair enough
> 
> but ... sh sent a message with this imho. It was a couple years ago, and it hasn't particularly hurt our marriage, but it seemed to confirm some of my suspicions regarding women.


Sit down with a good will attorney. We do this every few years, and it makes the decisions a lot more clear - although my wife usually ends up crying in the process. The lawyer can help you sort all the logistics out.


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

gone


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Manny1400 said:


> We both have trusts set up, so the legal stuff is worked out
> 
> I am fine with the money going to the kids, since I have some money of my own
> 
> but I thought it was strange that she knew I had her as direct beneficiary to my trust, but chose to exclude me from hers.


Then do the same, if you want things to be fair.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Hum....

Like others said, I don't think it's that she doesn't trust you, just didn't think that you would need the money.

Reminds me of when I was little - my grandma has set up trust for my older half siblings (different biological dad, although my father adopted them legally). As to why I was left out, she said "you have your father" which was true, I had never been in vulnerable situations like my siblings experienced.

I earn twice as much as my husband does - and I carry a sizable life insurance policy for which he is the sole beneficiary. He has an insurance plan as well, but it's not upsized like mine - why? I probably wouldn't need it as much.

I wouldn't look at it from a trust issue, but a likelihood of need issue.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I find what she did strange. 

If you died, she would not have to go to work and would be able to continue homeschooling because she and the children could live off your interitance.

If she died, your children would have to go to public school, since you can't work outside the home and homeschool several children too. Also, you would have to pay for all their college from your earnings.

She has made sure you must continue working if she dies.

It is obvious that she locked down her inheritance FROM YOU (which doesn't make sense) and from the children as well, until they are 25 (that part makes sense.) 

Have you ever done anything to indicate that you are not trustworthy or responsible with money?

Can the originator of a trust change the terms? (I don't have knowledge of how trusts work.)


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why would you assume you know what the women will say?


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One thing we hear of occasionally is when a spouse remarries, the step-parent ends up somehow getting all of the estate and the bio-kids don't get any of the inheritance. So maybe she dies, you remarry, you die, and the step-mother gives the money to her kids and writes your kids out of the will. I'm not sure if the trusts protect for that, but maybe she's also thinking of that possibility.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Maybe she can give you enough of the inheritance to cover finances while you continue to homeschool and pay for all the kid's colleges/cars they will need etc., and then put the rest into a trust that kids can access when they turn 25? 

That would prevent a step parent from getting her family's inheritance if she dies, but still give you what you need while homeschooling and during college years.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeah, I don't like her attitude! It should be reciprocal.

Be sure 100% that both of your inheritances are protected for your kids. That is what the trusts are for, but they have to be done correctly. For example, if you die and then she remarries, you want to wall off the money from her future spouse. This is why you should *not* have her as beneficiary. Especially since she won't need the money in the long term. She is the obvious trustee for the kids, so I am not saying don't trust her. I am saying don't trust other people like future suitors or slick con artists.

Consider having life insurance on yourself to get her through a few years while the kids are still home. Also realize that her very wealthy family could gift her substantial amounts of money tax-free if she should need it, as an advance on her future inheritance. If she should die first, you may need to pay for help doing the things she does now, including child care and housekeeping. So you may want to have life insurance on her, too, at least until the kids are old enough.

You want to preserve the legacy of the inheritance for your children, not have fun money for your widow to blow on fancy cruises with her new boyfriend after you die. Not to be harsh, but she is an adult who should provide for herself if needed, not spend down the children's legacy. If there were no children in the picture, I would say give her all the $$ with instructions to have fun, but that isn't the case.

Talk to your trust atty to be sure you understand all the loopholes or pitfalls in how you have things structured now. Could she as a beneficiary spend it all down before the kids get to age 25? How is it protected from her giving it away? Elderly people are frequently taken advantage of by scam artists, so is there some provision in the distant future for one of the adult children to become trustee? How does her future inheritance fit into the picture, including how does her trust mesh with yours? What if you child gets their share and then gets divorced? Is the $$ protected from their future ex grabbing it in divorce?

Are all of the assets actually titled to the trusts? The house should be, as should cars, bank accounts, and investment accounts. The trusts should be beneficiaries of all retirement accounts.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

wilson said:


> One thing we hear of occasionally is when a spouse remarries, the step-parent ends up somehow getting all of the estate and the bio-kids don't get any of the inheritance. So maybe she dies, you remarry, you die, and the step-mother gives the money to her kids and writes your kids out of the will. I'm not sure if the trusts protect for that, but maybe she's also thinking of that possibility.


Yes! That is what trusts are for, to prevent exactly those kinds of things. This happened in my family, and cost us tens of millions when a second spouse did what you described. A trust would have ensured the money went to the people the deceased wanted it to.

A will doesn't protect assets. But a trust must be carefully written to ensure it says what you want it to.


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

Adelais said:


> I find what she did strange.
> 
> If you died, she would not have to go to work and would be able to continue homeschooling because she and the children could live off your interitance.
> 
> ...


There might be a provision in her trust that would allow me to pull out small amount for the kid's education, etc. How much? I have no idea.

I've never done anything to make her distrust me: I don't gamble, piss away money, cheat, etc. And I'm not cheap either.

We went and got life insurance polices on each other at my insistence last year. Made sense regardless of this situation, but would probably help me if something happened to her.


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

Thor said:


> Yeah, I don't like her attitude! It should be reciprocal.
> 
> Be sure 100% that both of your inheritances are protected for your kids. That is what the trusts are for, but they have to be done correctly. For example, if you die and then she remarries, you want to wall off the money from her future spouse. This is why you should *not* have her as beneficiary. Especially since she won't need the money in the long term. She is the obvious trustee for the kids, so I am not saying don't trust her. I am saying don't trust other people like future suitors or slick con artists.
> 
> ...


This is all correct: lots of people set their trusts up in such a way so their spouse can't touch the money--only the kids. This prevents those scenarios where the new wife or husband benefits from the money.

But as I said, I trust her 100% not to go give my money away to some dude after I die, and to make sure the kids are well taken care of. Even if she did use some of the money for a new house, etc., I wouldn't be bothered. I don't see a scenario where the kids would be disinherited.

so it concerns me that she does see me doing something like that (marrying some bimbo and turning over my estate to her). I know that this is a rational and pragmatic thing to do, but it displays a lack of trust for me. I would never do that, and not a cent of her trust would go to my new wife--I have money and income of my own, and we have always agreed that our gross estate(s) would go to the kids (we would live off interest)

this, along with her dragging her feet in naming me beneficiary of the small amount outside of her trust, and getting life insurance, really upset me. She has always been the beneficiary on my stuff.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Manny1400 said:


> There might be a provision in her trust that would allow me to pull out small amount for the kid's education, etc. How much? I have no idea.
> 
> I've never done anything to make her distrust me: I don't gamble, piss away money, cheat, etc. And I'm not cheap either.
> 
> We went and got life insurance polices on each other at my insistence last year. Made sense regardless of this situation, but would probably help me if something happened to her.


I just realized that you are the same poster who spends a lot of time with other female "friends" and you claim that you are worried that your wife is not jealous, right?

I wonder if your behavior and having these "friends" has been the cause for her to lock down her inheritance.

Maybe she is resigned to her marriage with a man who needs outside female attention, but she would be damned if one of those women were to take her children's inheritance once she wasn't around to protect it.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Adelais said:


> I just realized that you are the same poster who spends a lot of time with other female "friends" and you claim that you are worried that your wife is not jealous, right?
> 
> I wonder if your behavior and having these "friends" has been the cause for her to lock down her inheritance.
> 
> Maybe she is resigned to her marriage with a man who needs outside female attention, but she would be damned if one of those women were to take her children's inheritance once she wasn't around to protect it.


Yes, i was puzzled by this too. 
Maybe your wife doesnt get all loud and “jealous” as you would like, instead she quietly secures her future and that of her children, thinking that you hanging out in hotel rooms until all hours with women 15 years younger than yourself is a signal that she had better protect herself and her kids.


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## Manny1400 (Dec 10, 2019)

Adelais said:


> I just realized that you are the same poster who spends a lot of time with other female "friends" and you claim that you are worried that your wife is not jealous, right?
> 
> I wonder if your behavior and having these "friends" has been the cause for her to lock down her inheritance.
> 
> Maybe she is resigned to her marriage with a man who needs outside female attention, but she would be damned if one of those women were to take her children's inheritance once she wasn't around to protect it.


this is specifically why I directed my question at men and not women

my wife trusts me completely. It is your own insecurities and issues with men that are coming out here


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Manny1400 said:


> But as I said, I trust her 100% not to go give my money away to some dude after I die, and to make sure the kids are well taken care of. Even if she did use some of the money for a new house, etc., I wouldn't be bothered. I don't see a scenario where the kids would be disinherited.


So she gets the money and pays off the house, or buys a new house. Anyhow, she marries some guy after you're dead and the money is comingled. They get divorced and he gets half of it because it was comingled. Or, she doesn't wall it off and then she dies. Due to bad documentation (no will, or a will that leaves everything to him, etc), he gets everything that was hers. Then he decides to leave it all to his kids not yours.

As long as your kids are walled off in the trust it is difficult to see a situation where that money gets taken from them, but it could happen. Maybe your widow becomes mentally impaired and her new husband or caretaker scams her into taking your kids' money out of the trust. Even though that would be illegal, once the money is gone it could be impossible to get it back.

But the big one is her share of the trust ending up in some other person's control after a divorce or her death. Like I said, this is precisely how my family was cheated out of tens of millions. My share would have been $5M+. The second marriage lasted several decades, and the spouse was every bit a loved and respected central part of the family. Totally trusted by my relative, yet after his fortune passed to her she changed her will to write his side of the family out.

You can set up the trust so your wife can use the money for specific limited needs if she is otherwise without money. e.g. pay for health insurance, or pay for necessary household expenses. If the house is titled to the trust, any trust $ put into the mortgage is still protected by the trust if she should get remarried.

You can't trust anybody to "do the right thing". You have to lock it in with specific wording in the trust to make sure it goes only where you want it to.

Anyhow, I would have identical terms in your trust as she has in hers. I think her terms are actually smart. Talk to your trust lawyer and he will tell you endless real life stories of people getting screwed over. Use life insurance as a stop-gap as needed, and have the kids as the only beneficiaries of the trusts. That's what I would do.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Manny1400 said:


> this is specifically why I directed my question at men and not women
> 
> my wife trusts me completely. It is your own insecurities and issues with men that are coming out here


Okay.... ignore everything I say because of your prejudices against me because I am a woman.

Carry on wondering why your wife locked you out of her inheritance and wondering why she is not jealous of your younger female "friends" with whom you hang out in hotel rooms until all hours of the morning.....

I don't think your wife is an idiot. Nor is she a cold, scheming woman. 

She is observant, thoughtful and deliberate.

Then why, Manny, do you believe she locked you out of her inheritance, if your marriage and your wife's disposition toward your girlfriends is as good as you say?


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Manny1400 said:


> this is specifically why I directed my question at men and not women
> 
> my wife trusts me completely. It is your own insecurities and issues with men that are coming out here


Rather than jump on people’s throats, listen to the message.
I will rephrase it so that you can better understand.
First off, ALL forums are open to everyone. We welcome opnions from all sides.

Now, trying to give you a woman’s perspective.
You noted in a previous post that you were concerned about your wife’s lack of jealousy when you failed to operate within boundaries.
Now here you discuss a money/trust issue.
As women (not bitter women thank you) we are trying to help you see that the two are not operating in isolation.

It is POSSIBLE that while your wife is not overly demonstrative in her jealousy, she has silently taken note and is operating in an environment where she aims to secure her children’s future by bypassing you financially, and potentially any female mates you may have in the future.

We asked you to consider it. You chose to become VERY defensive. 
Perhaps as suggested you should contact an inheritance lawyer who can shed some light on her reasoning on this issue.

Thanks and have a great day.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Manny1400 said:


> gone


oops I see that he has deleted his original post. and probably left the forum.
It's sad that he can't see the obviously immature way that he handles things. He asks about trust issues, then attacks anyone who attempts to give an alternate perspective.
He takes his ball and bat and goes home.
Oh well. Some people could really benefit from honesty. I wish him all the best. :x


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The way he handled the differing opinions here might be indicative of why his wife chooses to not confront him about his escapades at home. She knows he will become defensive, belittle her as a woman, and then leave.

She doesn't want to deal with that behavior.
@Manny1400 I suggest that you read No More Mr. Nice Guy which can be downloaded from the internet. You will benefit greatly from it. Give a copy to your wife too.


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## KevinSkinner (Mar 11, 2021)

I am glad that you managed to solve your problems.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This thread is a zombie thread and, as such, Zombie Kitten has determined that it must be closed to further replies.


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