# Older married men and the wandering eye



## Suspect

I have gotten a new friend and she has been married for 20 something years. She has been noticing her husband noticing every female that is several years younger than him and her. She feels neglected and hurt.

Recently she invited me to an event the two of them frequent that he enjoys and mentioned how he always has to sit in a specific area and how he watches for this female. She asked if I would see if she was out of her mind at her observation. Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him staring at her. I know this is hurtful to her. I have told her to follow her gut instinct. I don't know her well enough to know if I could say you are correct he is more interested in her paying her attention than acknowledging that his wife is even present.

I have wondered if this is something all couples in their late 40s and 50s go through that it is the midlife crisis that he is having or just disrespectful. He noticed other younger females and didn't keep it from being obvious to the women he is finding attractive and interesting to him. I see these immature females enjoying the attention of his constant looks, stares, and smiles. 

I want to pull him aside and tell him I see his behavior and he is being disrespectful to is wife and how would he feel to think some old goat was doing what he is to his daughter. Again I do not know him at all and her It is a new friendship. 

I just hate to see anyone being disrespected.


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## Hope1964

It isn't your place to do or say anything, unfortunately. His wife, on the other hand, should slap him in the face next time he does it and leave.


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## john117

I tend to alert my wife at my visual targets... Yesterday we were at Costco and there's this stunning looking Eurasian woman, late 20s with painted on yoga capri pants, exposed midriff, and cleavage to top most any woman I can think of. 

Which wouldn't be bad but she's hovering over the large cardboard container full of watermelons. Pretty much everyone in the store was staring. 

Is this disrespectful? Older women need to realize that they aren't competing here. Appreciating the human form in all it's manifestations isn't bad. 

But then, I'm European


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## Hope1964

Oh, and my husband is 48 and NEVER does anything like that.

Men being men, they DO look. But any guy who respects his wife isn't going to be obvious about it or make her uncomfortable or act like an idiot, like this guy is.


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## twoofus

Show some respect and put on a pair of dark glasses first.


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## Mr. Nail

@ SuspectDisrespect,
If his life is anything at all like my life at exactly that age, if any woman is giving him 5 minutes of attention per week, it is 5 minutes more than he is getting at home. I am a little stunned that he is arranging to be in place with his wife and her nattering friend watching over him, but it is probably just an indication of his desperation, not of some veiled disrespect. More like open dismissal. Speaking of open dismissal, that is what I would call inviting her friend out with her on their Date Night


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## Suspect

I suppose by her asking for my observation and also I went through this with my husband I said something to my husband to be belittled called crazy, that he was innnocent and I finally left. 

I noticed his actions he didn't pay attention to what was going on at the event he was busy watching for her then when she arrived he was totally focused on her until she was doing something else for a few moments and he then focused his attention to another. His attention always was the focus of this particular one as long as she was within range. I agree he did look like an idiot. He watched for her to return all her movements. 

All I can be is an ear to listen. And as far as advise I agree this is her problem and decision to make.


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## Suspect

This wasn't a date night they had one of their older children and I had one of mine.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Hope1964 said:


> Oh, and my husband is 48 and NEVER does anything like that.
> 
> Men being men, they DO look. But any guy who respects his wife isn't going to be obvious about it or make her uncomfortable or act like an idiot, like this guy is.


Yep, if my bf looks I never see it. That and he always looks at me like I'm the hottest in the room. That's how to get my attention  

My respect level for men goes way down if I see them checking out hot girls.


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## Affaircare

Okay here it is: I'm 55yo and had seven children. I have gray hairs and some wrinkles--a few things are beginning to sag. I'm not 20yo!! 

But I'm also not 20yo. I have a WHOLE LIFETIME of experiences and happy memories wit my Dear Hubby. I'm not a fool--I may not be the hottest "looking" woman in the room as few go for that Rosie Cotton hobbit look! LOL  But he also doesn't disrespect me by ignoring me or behaving in that "old goat" way. She (the 20yo) may have it tight and put together well, but I held his hair while he was sick, I made biscuits and gravy as a surprise for him this morning, and I had his children! It's not a competition--I win hands down. 

And I think that's the main issue. Not everyone is a natural-born "beauty"! But when you've been with someone for a lifetime and you respect them, you don't treat them like they still have to "compete." You treat them like YOU are the winner because you get to be with THEM! It doesn't sound like he treats her like that.


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## SunCMars

Then again......

If the wife is mad at her husband she will look for any reason to drop a depth charge on his You-Boat....deserved or not.

When I am with my spouse.....I look at her, my phone, my hands or my food. Not a good way to live. Patience has it's limits...

In this post's example, he is guilty as hell.

Just Sayin'


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## TAMAT

What I see when I see a younger attractive female is someone who might do the things my W used to do, passionate kissing, etc. To expect men not to look is like asking a starving person not to look at food they can't afford in a shop window. 

That being said, I would never want to disrupt a younger womans life by entering it romantically, and I keep my distance. 

So sometimes the looking is a product of fidelity not infidelity or even intent to engage in it.

I would suspect someone like Bill Cosby was the perfect gentleman when he was around his W because he had other options, all the while appearing like a saint in public.

Tamat


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## Hope1964

TAMAT said:


> To expect men not to look is like asking a starving person not to look at food they can't afford in a shop window.


1) Men can LOOK, but there's a difference between looking and being a complete ass about it.
2) Your analogy might apply to men who are sex starved, but that's about it. There ARE men who aren't the least bit sex starved, you know


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## chillymorn69

staring at each other from across the rm. does he ever go there alone?


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## Mr. Nail

I don't really excuse the man. But' I've got to wonder how he got to this point. It seems way past typical male borishness. I'm a bit shocked that women here think this is a possibility. 

There is more to this story, mark my words. As to whether or not there are indeed men who are not sex starved, let me answer your question with a question. Do you believe that there are more than 1% of the population (male and female) who get their emotional needs met?

He must think he has nothing to lose. and young 50s who have children at home? I'm sure glad my offspring are adults and I don't have to go to their soccer games.


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## Ikaika

This is not meant to be disrespectful, but rather an awakening to differences:

In my job I'm around a lot of 20 and early 30 year olds females. The gym I workout at is about 1/2 female of an average age of early 30s. Yes, there are some attractive women, I don't ogle over any of them. One it is not professional and two I go to the gym to workout. 

What always gets me back to reality is when a conversation is struck. It is as if we are from two different worlds. I love my wife in spite of the fact that our bodies are being challenged by gravity. We can communicate and laugh at things that I could never relate to with someone much younger. I think my wife is still hot, and we can can relate to each other in so many ways due to share life experiences. My wife is "MaryAnn" not "Ginger". And for those who can't understand, you are from a different planet. 

So, when I see these young ladies, I'm reminded we are from two different "planets". And that is it. A glance that barely last a second. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## NoChoice

I believe that there are two possibilities here. One is that her H is simply a neanderthal, which I find possible but less likely than two, which is he is so sadly lacking in fulfillment at home that he has simply either lost any concern for his overt behavior or he is trying to engage his W in whatever way he can. I have experienced such desperation with my wife and did, in fact, employ similar tactics which proved to be wholly ineffective. Trying to engage someone in such a manner who is wantonly uninterested is futile. Perhaps have a conversation with your friend and see if there is a deeper issue at play here.


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## Diana7

john117 said:


> I tend to alert my wife at my visual targets... Yesterday we were at Costco and there's this stunning looking Eurasian woman, late 20s with painted on yoga capri pants, exposed midriff, and cleavage to top most any woman I can think of.
> 
> Which wouldn't be bad but she's hovering over the large cardboard container full of watermelons. Pretty much everyone in the store was staring.
> 
> Is this disrespectful? Older women need to realize that they aren't competing here. Appreciating the human form in all it's manifestations isn't bad.
> 
> But then, I'm European


 I am Eurpoean, but thankfully not all men here behave that way. 

The man in question is being very rude and disrespectful towards his wife, and no, its not something that all older married men do. Most love their wives too much to act in such a rude way.


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## Diana7

Mr. Nail said:


> @ SuspectDisrespect,
> If his life is anything at all like my life at exactly that age, if any woman is giving him 5 minutes of attention per week, it is 5 minutes more than he is getting at home. I am a little stunned that he is arranging to be in place with his wife and her nattering friend watching over him, but it is probably just an indication of his desperation, not of some veiled disrespect. More like open dismissal. Speaking of open dismissal, that is what I would call inviting her friend out with her on their Date Night


 Some men act this way and its not about 'desperation'. That's excusing bad behavior.


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## SunCMars

Ikaika said:


> This is not meant to be disrespectful, but rather an awakening to differences:
> 
> In my job I'm around a lot of 20 and early 30 year olds females. The gym I workout at is about 1/2 female of an average age of early 30s. Yes, there are some attractive women, I don't ogle over any of them. One it is not professional and two I go to the gym to workout.
> 
> What always gets me back to reality is when a conversation is struck. It is as if we are from two different worlds. I love my wife in spite of the fact that our bodies are being challenged by gravity. We can communicate and laugh at things that I could never relate to with someone much younger. I think my wife is still hot, and we can can relate to each other in so many ways due to share life experiences. My wife is "MaryAnn" not "Ginger". And for those who can't understand, you are from a different planet.
> 
> So, when I see these young ladies, *I'm reminded we are from two different "planets".* And that is it. A glance that barely last a second.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Be careful, be very careful.

I AM from a different planet and all I get is grief when I remind "other" TAM-ber-weenies of this factoid blatant hemorrhoid. 

Be verwee, verwee quiet. I am hunting Wabbit!

Just Sayin'


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I often see men checking out hot girls. It's not a rare thing. I honestly don't think a lot of them even realize they are doing it. 

I really don't care if they are neglected at home, it's creepy and disrespectful and having a wondering eye could be a reason to lead them to being neglected. 

I don't want to sleep with the guy who just watched the hot girl walk down the sidewalk while he's supposed to be driving. So if you weren't getting sex before, you sure aren't getting it after either. 


I once watched a man, 80 years old or so. He was watching his wife, same age, getting her hair done. He looked at her as if she was Angelina Jolie. He couldn't take his eyes off her. No woman that walked by made him change from looking at her. They walked hand in hand out the door. 

Sweetest thing I've ever seen. 
That man knows how to treat a lady. 80 or not, a guy treats me like that is getting laid when we get home.


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## WorkingOnMe

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I often see men checking out hot girls. It's not a rare thing. I honestly don't think a lot of them even realize they are doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't care if they are neglected at home, it's creepy and disrespectful and having a wondering eye could be a reason to lead them to being neglected.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to sleep with the guy who just watched the hot girl walk down the sidewalk while he's supposed to be driving. So if you weren't getting sex before, you sure aren't getting it after either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I once watched a man, 80 years old or so. He was watching his wife, same age, getting her hair done. He looked at her as if she was Angelina Jolie. He couldn't take his eyes off her. No woman that walked by made him change from looking at her. They walked hand in hand out the door.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweetest thing I've ever seen.
> 
> That man knows how to treat a lady. 80 or not, a guy treats me like that is getting laid when we get home.




I'll bet that old woman dotes on him every day. Gives compliments and whatever else 80 year olds like. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mostlycontent

NoChoice said:


> I believe that there are two possibilities here. One is that her H is simply a neanderthal, which I find possible but less likely than two, which is he is so sadly lacking in fulfillment at home that he has simply either lost any concern for his overt behavior or he is trying to engage his W in whatever way he can. I have experienced such desperation with my wife and did, in fact, employ similar tactics which proved to be wholly ineffective. Trying to engage someone in such a manner who is wantonly uninterested is futile. Perhaps have a conversation with your friend and see if there is a deeper issue at play here.



I would tend to agree with the highlighted section. It's very easy to take one's spouse for granted and while men are used to and perhaps conditioned to be very complimentary of their wife or her appearance, I can't say that the opposite is true. If the husband doesn't feel that he receives any validation from his wife or she has fully taken him for granted, he will look elsewhere for it. It goes without saying that the reverse is also true but I sense that this happens more to men than women.

I'll also say something that won't be popular but it's something I have observed. Men age better than women. I go to the gym 4 days a week and I would say that on average, the gym has 80% male members working out in the free weight area doing strength training, which is necessary to look healthy and fit as we get older. Yes, women are lined up on the cardio equipment but that's not enough once you get in your 40s and 50s to still look like you did in your 30s.

I see way more guys that still look to be in really good shape in their late 40s and early 50s that I do women. It stands to reason that if you keep yourself in really good shape and your spouse does not, you will be drawn, or more drawn, to other fit bodies of the opposite sex. Men have been working out with weights for years but it's still a relatively new thing for women and I believe it shows, particularly when one gets to be in their 50s.

My wife, who has always been really fit, started going back to the weights because she found that just cardio wasn't enough to keep her firm and tone. If you neglect that and your husband doesn't, you could be asking for some trouble. Now I'm not sure any of this is germane to the issue at hand but I would wager that there's more to this story than we know.


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## john117

Diana7 said:


> I am Eurpoean, but thankfully not all men here behave that way.
> 
> The man in question is being very rude and disrespectful towards his wife, and no, its not something that all older married men do. Most love their wives too much to act in such a rude way.


Appreciating beauty in all it's forms is not something to be ashamed about. Sad to say, few European women dressed like that back in the olde country, at least in my days (unless they were out clubbing or vacationing in cougar mode in southern Europe).

Women of all ages should have enough confidence in their marriage so that such visual observations by their husbands would not be seen as threatening.


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## uhtred

Looking and staring are different things.

If a beautiful woman walks by, I look - but I don't stare.

My wife of 30 years is still beautiful to me. 



I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes
I have to turn my head until my darkness goes


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## Andy1001

Ikaika said:


> This is not meant to be disrespectful, but rather an awakening to differences:
> 
> In my job I'm around a lot of 20 and early 30 year olds females. The gym I workout at is about 1/2 female of an average age of early 30s. Yes, there are some attractive women, I don't ogle over any of them. One it is not professional and two I go to the gym to workout.
> 
> What always gets me back to reality is when a conversation is struck. It is as if we are from two different worlds. I love my wife in spite of the fact that our bodies are being challenged by gravity. We can communicate and laugh at things that I could never relate to with someone much younger. I think my wife is still hot, and we can can relate to each other in so many ways due to share life experiences. My wife is "MaryAnn" not "Ginger". And for those who can't understand, you are from a different planet.
> 
> So, when I see these young ladies, I'm reminded we are from two different "planets". And that is it. A glance that barely last a second.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I was flying to Amsterdam two weeks ago and during the flight almost everyone fell asleep (it was a night flight).
My baby daughter was on my knee and this absolutely stunning girl of about nineteen came across the aisle and started chatting to me and playing with the baby.She told me she always wanted to see Amsterdam because her favourite movie was the hunchback of Amsterdam.Then she asked me was he still alive.
I gently explained to her that the book was written in the eighteen hundreds so it was unlikely Quasimodo,an imaginary character was still alive.
And it was Norte Dame Cathedral in Paris.
She was very disappointed.
The funniest part was my girlfriends son had woken up and was listening to her,he started laughing as soon as she left and he is only eight.


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## Diana7

john117 said:


> Appreciating beauty in all it's forms is not something to be ashamed about. Sad to say, few European women dressed like that back in the olde country, at least in my days (unless they were out clubbing or vacationing in cougar mode in southern Europe).
> 
> Women of all ages should have enough confidence in their marriage so that such visual observations by their husbands would not be seen as threatening.


 Far better to have a husband who loves and respects you enough not to do this. Its not about confidence, it's about treating each other right.


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## Mr. Nail

slowlygoingcrazy said:


> i really don't care if they are neglected at home,


bingo


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## Diana7

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I often see men checking out hot girls. It's not a rare thing. I honestly don't think a lot of them even realize they are doing it.
> 
> I really don't care if they are neglected at home, it's creepy and disrespectful and having a wondering eye could be a reason to lead them to being neglected.
> 
> I don't want to sleep with the guy who just watched the hot girl walk down the sidewalk while he's supposed to be driving. So if you weren't getting sex before, you sure aren't getting it after either.
> 
> 
> I once watched a man, 80 years old or so. He was watching his wife, same age, getting her hair done. He looked at her as if she was Angelina Jolie. He couldn't take his eyes off her. No woman that walked by made him change from looking at her. They walked hand in hand out the door.
> 
> Sweetest thing I've ever seen.
> That man knows how to treat a lady. 80 or not, a guy treats me like that is getting laid when we get home.


Thats beautiful. :smile2::smile2: I have a husband who doesn't let himself oggle or stare at other women. He has always been very strict about this since a young man, he is very careful what he watches on tv and in films and if an advert comes up that has a woman not wearing much he will close his eyes. 
If he sees a lady walking by who isnt wearing much, for example, he will look away(its called bouncing the eyes and becomes a habit if you do it enough). 

I SO love him for it, and it makes me feel loved, precious and respected. As you mentioned, it does great things for the sex life. In 12 years of marriage I have never rejected him for sex, and I instigate as much as he does.

I would never be with a man who acted like the husband in this thread, or who ogled other women. I also wouldn't want to have sex with such a man.


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## Diana7

Mostlycontent said:


> I would tend to agree with the highlighted section. It's very easy to take one's spouse for granted and while men are used to and perhaps conditioned to be very complimentary of their wife or her appearance, I can't say that the opposite is true. If the husband doesn't feel that he receives any validation from his wife or she has fully taken him for granted, he will look elsewhere for it. It goes without saying that the reverse is also true but I sense that this happens more to men than women.
> 
> I'll also say something that won't be popular but it's something I have observed. Men age better than women. I go to the gym 4 days a week and I would say that on average, the gym has 80% male members working out in the free weight area doing strength training, which is necessary to look healthy and fit as we get older. Yes, women are lined up on the cardio equipment but that's not enough once you get in your 40s and 50s to still look like you did in your 30s.
> 
> I see way more guys that still look to be in really good shape in their late 40s and early 50s that I do women. It stands to reason that if you keep yourself in really good shape and your spouse does not, you will be drawn, or more drawn, to other fit bodies of the opposite sex. Men have been working out with weights for years but it's still a relatively new thing for women and I believe it shows, particularly when one gets to be in their 50s.
> 
> My wife, who has always been really fit, started going back to the weights because she found that just cardio wasn't enough to keep her firm and tone. If you neglect that and your husband doesn't, you could be asking for some trouble. Now I'm not sure any of this is germane to the issue at hand but I would wager that there's more to this story than we know.


Thats not my experience at all, I see around me far more women who are fit than their husbands. Besides that, it's no excuse to ogle other people just because your spouse had got older or put on a little weight.We are age 60 and 61 now, I would never stare at other men out of respect for my husband.


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## Ynot

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sweetest thing I've ever seen.
> That man knows how to treat a lady. 80 or not, a guy treats me like that is getting laid when we get home.


Yeah, see that's the thing that some of the guys keep saying. The fact is that guy probably got laid before they ever left the house. That is why he is so enamored. 

We have one side of a story, the wife's side. We do not know the back story. What some guys are saying is that if perhaps the wife were a little more attentive to his needs, perhaps there would be no interest in looking elsewhere to get them met, even if it is only a fantasy.

When I first got married, my wife looked after my needs and I hers. I didn't even look at another woman - by choice. Later she decided she was too tired, sore, constipated, busy (name the reason) to have sex on even a semi-regular basis. I never cheated but I sure as heck fantasized about a better sex life. So women who worked for me, women I saw while I was out and about, women I saw at church, moms I saw when I took my daughter to school, women on TV, movies and even porn IOW women in general became the star of my fantasies. This guy may be in a sexless marriage, his wife may think she is righteous (for whatever reason) in her actions.


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## Andy1001

Ynot said:


> Yeah, see that's the thing that some of the guys keep saying. The fact is that guy probably got laid before they ever left the house. That is why he is so enamored.
> 
> We have one side of a story, the wife's side. We do not know the back story. What some guys are saying is that if perhaps the wife were a little more attentive to his needs, perhaps there would be no interest in looking elsewhere to get them met, even if it is only a fantasy.
> 
> When I first got married, my wife looked after my needs and I hers. I didn't even look at another woman - by choice. Later she decided she was too tired, sore, constipated, busy (name the reason) to have sex on even a semi-regular basis. I never cheated but I sure as heck fantasized about a better sex life. So women who worked for me, women I saw while I was out and about, women I saw at church, moms I saw when I took my daughter to school, women on TV, movies and even porn IOW women in general became the star of my fantasies. This guy may be in a sexless marriage, his wife may think she is righteous (for whatever reason) in her actions.


So we have a guy who's wife isn't having sex with him often enough so he does a little window shopping.She catches him looking so her solution is to have even less sex with him.
Sounds ideal.


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## john117

Diana7 said:


> Far better to have a husband who loves and respects you enough not to do this. Its not about confidence, it's about treating each other right.


Hard as it may seem to believe, marriage does not consume individuals. Besides, respecting one's spouse is not incompatible with also respecting the beauty of the human form.


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## NoChoice

First, I will reiterate my statement that the possibility exists that the H is simply a selfish dullard. However, a situation is rarely that simple which is what I and a few others are positing.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I often see men checking out hot girls. It's not a rare thing. I honestly don't think a lot of them even realize they are doing it.
> 
> *I really don't care if they are neglected at home, it's creepy and disrespectful* If this H is neglected at home do you find that "creepy"?and having a wondering eye could be a reason to lead them to being neglected.
> 
> I don't want to sleep with the guy who just watched the hot girl walk down the sidewalk while he's supposed to be driving. So if you weren't getting sex before, you sure aren't getting it after either. Then what has he to lose?
> 
> 
> I once watched a man, 80 years old or so. He was watching his wife, same age, getting her hair done. He looked at her as if she was Angelina Jolie. He couldn't take his eyes off her. No woman that walked by made him change from looking at her. They walked hand in hand out the door.
> 
> Sweetest thing I've ever seen.
> That man knows how to treat a lady. And I would have confidence saying the reverse is true.80 or not, a guy treats me like that is getting laid when we get home.


Again, not knowing the whole story this whole thread is supposition.



Diana7 said:


> Far better to have a husband who *loves and respects* you enough not to do this. Its not about confidence, it's about treating each other right.


Love can be given but is not respect earned?



Diana7 said:


> Thats beautiful. :smile2::smile2: I have a husband who doesn't let himself oggle or stare at other women. He has always been very strict about this since a young man, he is very careful what he watches on tv and in films and if an advert comes up that has a woman not wearing much he will close his eyes.
> If he sees a lady walking by who isnt wearing much, for example, he will look away(its called bouncing the eyes and becomes a habit if you do it enough).
> 
> I SO love him for it, and it makes me feel loved, precious and respected. As you mentioned, it does great things for the sex life. In 12 years of marriage I have never rejected him for sex, and I instigate as much as he does.
> 
> I would never be with a man who acted like the husband in this thread, or who ogled other women. I also wouldn't want to have sex with such a man.


If you dare perhaps try an experiment and for the next decade (or two) deny your H sex, act wholly disinterested in his needs and report back to us as to his "respect" for you. Let us know if his eye wanders.


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## Stilltrying1

I am reminded of a situation when I was with a small group of colleagues, all guys ranging in age from late 40s to early 60s, who got together every morning for coffee before work. One of the group told a bawdy story that elicited a big laugh from everyone. A member of the group said something like "that would kill half of my sex life." Without skipping a beat another guy said, "which half, thinking about it or talking about it?" 

I think for a lot of older guys they look because that's just how they are programmed. Sex is still always on their minds. Their brains are still wired like a 19 year-old, but their bodies and personal relationships have matured.


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## Diana7

john117 said:


> Hard as it may seem to believe, marriage does not consume individuals. Besides, respecting one's spouse is not incompatible with also respecting the beauty of the human form.


That's one way of saying it's ok to leer at other people. 
We love and respect each other, therefore we dont do that. I find it interesting that people think we can't control what we do with our eyes and thoughts. We can.

If the most handsome guy ever walked into the room, I am not going to stare at him or ogle him. I will deliberately not do that out of choice. If I want to see beauty, I will look at a sunset, or beautiful scenery. I am not going to stare at a man imagining what I would like to do with him.


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## Diana7

NoChoice said:


> First, I will reiterate my statement that the possibility exists that the H is simply a selfish dullard. However, a situation is rarely that simple which is what I and a few others are positing.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, not knowing the whole story this whole thread is supposition.
> 
> 
> 
> Love can be given but is not respect earned?
> 
> 
> 
> If you dare perhaps try an experiment and for the next decade (or two) deny your H sex, act wholly disinterested in his needs and report back to us as to his "respect" for you. Let us know if his eye wanders.


 He had issues with his ex wife, struggles in his marriage, but when you have certain values and principles, as he has, you keep them no matter what the situation. 
A man who leers at women will do so no matter what his situation because that's the sort of man he is. A man who doesn't, won't do it no matter what because that's the sort of man HE is.

A couple I know had a good marriage. The wife adored him. Didn't stop him flirting and ogling other women nor eventually having an affair. That's the sort of man he is. He actually said to her it wasn't because anything was wrong with the marriage.


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## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> A man who leers at women will do so no matter what his situation because that's the sort of man he is. A man who doesn't, won't do it no matter what because that's the sort of man HE is.
> .


Strangely, "he always has to sit in a specific area and how he watches for this female. She asked if I would see if she was out of her mind at her observation. Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him staring at her." becomes "A man who leers at women " I may have missed it but where in this entire thread (besides in your posts) has anyone, anywhere said anything about leering at women?
I know it may come as a shock to some of you but marriage is a two street. In the OP the W expects respect for her self, but we have no way of knowing whether she shows any respect for his needs.


----------



## Ynot

Andy1001 said:


> So we have a guy who's wife isn't having sex with him often enough so he does a little window shopping.She catches him looking so her solution is to have even less sex with him.
> Sounds ideal.


Yabbut if he had only listened to her, everything would be okey-dokey. I just love how even raising the possibility that maybe the W shares some blame causes a full scale panic in some people.


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> Strangely, "he always has to sit in a specific area and how he watches for this female. She asked if I would see if she was out of her mind at her observation. Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him staring at her." becomes "A man who leers at women " I may have missed it but where in this entire thread (besides in your posts) has anyone, anywhere said anything about leering at women?
> I know it may come as a shock to some of you but marriage is a two street. In the OP the W expects respect for her self, but we have no way of knowing whether she shows any respect for his needs.


However a husband or wife acts, it's not an excuse for us to act badly.


----------



## john117

It's not a question of control. My interns tend to wear rather NSFW clothes on occasion, mostly in an effort to attract other interns or on the way to intern events etc. You don't see us geezers leering at them. 

Also, appreciating beauty doesn't mean we "need to do something with it". I appreciate the form of a 1970s Datsun 240z but you don't see me hot-wiring one and driving off with it.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> However a husband or wife acts, it's not an excuse for us to act badly.


"acting badly" is a completely subjective term. Some women enjoy their husbands looking at other women, because they know the he is with them. Some men enjoy other guys hitting on their wives because they know she is with them. Some men enjoy their wives looking at other guys as well. Regardless of your morality, the fact is that none of us went blind once we got married. If you think not pretending to be blind is "acting badly" you have an extremely naïve understanding of what that is. 
In the case of the OP, if he isn't being respected at home (ie his needs are not being met) then he has every right to look elsewhere. After all "not getting your needs met" is the basic excuse behind every affair as well as every divorce.


----------



## Dannip

Tell her her H needs more BJs. Have her hit the club and get in shape. He'll pay more attention to her. 

(I read that advice to guys here a lot. Thought to suggest it for the lady then).


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> That's one way of saying it's ok to leer at other people.
> We love and respect each other, therefore we dont do that. I find it interesting that people think we can't control what we do with our eyes and thoughts. We can.
> 
> If the most handsome guy ever walked into the room, I am not going to stare at him or ogle him. I will deliberately not do that out of choice. If I want to see beauty, I will look at a sunset, or beautiful scenery. I am not going to stare at a man imagining what I would like to do with him.


My wife and I love and respect one another as well.

Yet whenever my wife has the most handsome guy ever walk into a room she certainly ogles him and enjoys it. That said she doesn't stare because staring is crass and demonstrative of pedestrian social skills.

Likewise whenever the most luscious woman ever walks into a room, I enjoy seeing them as well and don't behave crassly by staring.

My wife will also notice pretty women, just as I will notice handsome men and sometimes when we're together we will kindly spot for the other. We will also sometimes lament together about not seeing any attractive people while out and about.

Seeing beautiful people is a lot like enjoying splendid paintings when visiting an art gallery.

With respect to seeing "the beautiful people", my wife and I sometimes socialise with some famous people, so actors, rock stars, writers, artists, some politicians and no sports people thus far. To my amusement, every time my wife meets someone who she was a fan of when she was a teen or in her twenties, she goes all deer in headlights and can barely talk to them.

When my wife was in her twenties she'd also get invited to concert after parties, for different international music acts or singers, or she'd meet them at her place because of her friends. Yet she'd mostly just trip over her tongue like she did when she met Jeff Buckley and couldn't speak to him, only being able to nod and smile when he tried to talk to her.

It's a bit different for me though, when I was a teen I hung out with some famous actresses and actors and often stayed at theirs and would go to some of their parties (in part to get away from my home life growing up), so I am comfortable with them since they're people just like me.

Anyway I think it's perfectly fine to enjoy seeing aesthetically appealing people and poor form to stare or behave crudely. Smiling at someone can be fine though, if you get the difference between being a creep and being polite.

As to eye control, while ever my eyes work I will certainly use them to enjoy seeing beautiful people.

Life is too short for us not to enjoy, the sight of beauty whenever we see it.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> Thats beautiful. :smile2::smile2: I have a husband who doesn't let himself oggle or stare at other women. *He has always been very strict about this since a young man, he is very careful what he watches on tv and in films and if an advert comes up that has a woman not wearing much he will close his eyes.
> If he sees a lady walking by who isnt wearing much, for example, he will look away*(its called bouncing the eyes and becomes a habit if you do it enough).


I'm so glad I don't behave like your husband.


----------



## MrsHolland

Personal said:


> I'm so glad I don't behave like your husband.


It just sounds like odd behaviour. I can't work out why an adult is so uptight about the human body. Sounds very unhealthy and lots of shame involved.

What about seeing art works? Does he keep out of art galleries?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Personal said:


> I'm so glad I don't behave like your husband.




Haha closing his eyes for a racy commercial! That's the sign of a man with a real problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Personal

@MrsHolland and @WorkingOnMe

I don't get it either, and reckon such behaviour is a red flag in any gender.

Just as it would suck to be out with a sexual partner who crassly gapes and stares interminably at others. It would also suck to be with someone who makes a show of not looking.

I would wonder why someone is so afraid to even glance at an attractive person. I mean what is he afraid of doing if he catches a glimpse, is he unable to control himself?


----------



## Mostlycontent

Diana7 said:


> Thats not my experience at all, I see around me far more women who are fit than their husbands. Besides that, it's no excuse to ogle other people just because your spouse had got older or put on a little weight.We are age 60 and 61 now, I would never stare at other men out of respect for my husband.



You live in the UK, right? If so, that would explain it. In the States, men are much more likely to work out than women, particularly strength training.

I think the ironic thing I've read on these boards is that if the situation were reversed and the husband were upset that his wife had a wandering eye, people here would be telling him to up his game and get in shape so she finds him sexually attractive again. Well, the same advice applies to the wife in this scenario.

If your spouse doesn't seem to be as "taken" with you as they once were, then what has changed? Most likely it is one's appearance and it's incumbent on them to make the necessary changes if they want different results. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


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## AVR1962

I spent 27 years dealing with a man who had eyes for other women like this, never changed. Glad I left!


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## Vinnydee

I live in a very large 55+ community and there is nothing worth looking at. When we moved here I was 58 and was used to seeing girls in the malls and on the streets of NYC. Now I work from home and only see older women. My bi wife finds it the same with both men and women. In fact, it is the first time we have been monogamous in our 45 year marriage. We cannot imagine more wrinkles in our bed other than ours.  Plus we both have medical issues as do most of the other seniors here.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I think it's biology that men want to look, albeit briefly. The Coolidge effect is a phenomenon seen in animal species whereby males exhibit renewed sexual interest if introduced to new receptive sexual partners, even after cessation of sex with prior but still available sexual partners.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Women like to see hot men too, we just don't as often make fools of ourselves staring at them. If we did most of the husbands wouldn't like it much either. 

It's not just boys being boys, it's a lack of respect for your partner. You aren't wild animals who can't control impulses. 

It's not going to hurt you to not stare at the 20 year old hottie. It may hurt your marriage if you do. It's a choice you made. 

Even subtle things like that can be a huge turn off. We notice even if we don't say anything.


----------



## MrsHolland

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Women like to see hot men too, we just don't as often make fools of ourselves staring at them. If we did most of the husbands wouldn't like it much either.
> 
> It's not just boys being boys, it's a lack of respect for your partner. You aren't wild animals who can't control impulses.
> 
> It's not going to hurt you to not stare at the 20 year old hottie. It may hurt your marriage if you do. It's a choice you made.
> 
> Even subtle things like that can be a huge turn off. We notice even if we don't say anything.


Some men really are foolish about his sort of thing. It is humiliating for the partner of an oggler, I feel sorry for women with men like that.
Sure take a glance but be decent about it or better yet do it on your own time when you are not with your wife.

I have such a thing for hot men in business suits and cyclists but I control this when I am with MrH, on my own time I'm free to hide behind my sunnies and check them out.


----------



## notmyrealname4

,


----------



## john117

notmyrealname4 said:


> OP, tell your friend to start ogling other men.
> 
> Especially in front of her husband; she should be really obvious about it.


Unless said men are wearing highly strange outfits the visual effects aren't as obvious as with women.

TBH, when I see a well sculpted guy the only thing I think of is "OMG another triathlon / p90 / infernal gym / who has time for that type. Or a well dressed man... "Whoa, gift certificate for Brooks Brothers". 

Maybe women know where to look


----------



## MrsHolland

john117 said:


> Unless said men are wearing highly strange outfits the visual effects aren't as obvious as with women.
> 
> TBH, when I see a well sculpted guy the only thing I think of is "OMG another triathlon / p90 / infernal gym / who has time for that type. Or a well dressed man... "Whoa, gift certificate for Brooks Brothers".
> 
> Maybe women know where to look


If men are not your thing then the above means zero. Women love to look at gorgeous men. Trust me, the sight of a good looking man in a well cut suit is super hot especially when you have a good imagination Just as a scruffy looking guy is a turn off.


----------



## notmyrealname4

/


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Ya seriously, we like good looking men (whatever our specific good looking is) Men like to think that that women just aren't visual like they are. It's crap. We are. We want to look just as much as you do. 

Know what else is in nature? Males having to be colourful and stand out to get the attention of a mate. By the animal logic we should be making y'all do mating dances to impress us or we literally kill you if it's not good enough. 

We are evolved past animals and most women know not to ogle and stare at the hot man when they are out on a date with their husband. More men need to get it through their head to do the same. 

I personally don't care for well sculpted ftr.


----------



## EleGirl

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'll bet that old woman dotes on him every day. Gives compliments and whatever else 80 year olds like.


And he probably dotes on her. It's a two way street.


----------



## EleGirl

Ynot said:


> Yeah, see that's the thing that some of the guys keep saying. The fact is that guy probably got laid before they ever left the house. That is why he is so enamored.
> 
> We have one side of a story, the wife's side. We do not know the back story. What some guys are saying is that if perhaps the wife were a little more attentive to his needs, perhaps there would be no interest in looking elsewhere to get them met, even if it is only a fantasy.
> 
> When I first got married, my wife looked after my needs and I hers. I didn't even look at another woman - by choice. Later she decided she was too tired, sore, constipated, busy (name the reason) to have sex on even a semi-regular basis. I never cheated but I sure as heck fantasized about a better sex life. So women who worked for me, women I saw while I was out and about, women I saw at church, moms I saw when I took my daughter to school, women on TV, movies and even porn IOW women in general became the star of my fantasies. This guy may be in a sexless marriage, his wife may think she is righteous (for whatever reason) in her actions.


Perhaps, if she were a little more attentive......

Or maybe he's just like that. Maybe he's not attentive at home and he's disrespectful by openly staring at and flirting with other women openly.

We don't know. But I guess that does not stop people from jumping to conclusions.

From my experience, when it comes it things like a guy openly flirting, cheating, etc. it's more about his character that how his wife treats him at him. A woman can have wild sex with her husband every day and dote over him all day long. If he's a slime ball he's going to openly ogle other women and maybe even cheat anyway. 

And you can reverse the genders on that too. It's about character of the individual who is acting in a wrong manner.


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> "acting badly" is a completely subjective term. Some women enjoy their husbands looking at other women, because they know the he is with them. Some men enjoy other guys hitting on their wives because they know she is with them. Some men enjoy their wives looking at other guys as well. Regardless of your morality, the fact is that none of us went blind once we got married. If you think not pretending to be blind is "acting badly" you have an extremely naïve understanding of what that is.
> In the case of the OP, if he isn't being respected at home (ie his needs are not being met) then he has every right to look elsewhere. After all "not getting your needs met" is the basic excuse behind every affair as well as every divorce.


You have a different idea of what acting badly is. I have never met a lady in 60 years who likes her husband ogling other ladies. Yes it is control, some men use it believe it or not.


----------



## aine

If my H did that, I would confront him, then go over to the girl invite her to the table, sit her down, take off my wedding ring, hand it to him and tell him don't bother coming home. He is away out of line, oggling a young girl, if he is so desperate then ask for a divorce. He is being so disrespectful.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> You have a different idea of what acting badly is. I have never met a lady in 60 years who likes her husband ogling other ladies. Yes it is control, some men use it believe it or not.


Judging from most of your posts I would say you live a very cloistered life. Step outside of your apparently very closed knit social circle and see how the rest of the world lives. So far on just this thread, you have never met a lady who likes her husband LOOKING (not ogling, that is another invention of your mind just like "leering" was) at other women and know of very few who get divorced (despite posts with links that prove you wrong) and your H diverts his eyes when he sees something he doesn't think he should (makes me wonder how you two ever connected?)

FTR just as many women use it as a means of control as do men. And probably more of them understand that their spouses did not go blind when they got married.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Diana7 said:


> You have a different idea of what acting badly is. I have never met a lady in 60 years who likes her husband ogling other ladies. Yes it is control, some men use it believe it or not.


I've never come across a woman who liked it either. It tells me a lot about the man who does it. It looks very unattractive and pathetic (sorry men but it does)


----------



## MattMatt

My wife points out various stick thin young cuties and says: "Oh! Isn't she pretty?"

I grunt noncommittally in reply, or say: "Yes, of course she is."

Eventually my wife realised that the women who I might actually be looking at were of any age and shall we say of a much fuller figure? 

She takes the micky out of me by saying: "Bloody hell! You'll fancy her! Looks like she's broken her back axle!"


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Ynot said:


> And probably more of them understand that their spouses did not go blind when they got married.


We don't expect anyone to be blind but if we, and others around us, can notice you doing it then it's too much. I see hot guys all the time, it takes 1 second to think oh, he's hot and go back to my conversation. No one would notice I saw and was attracted to a man walking by because I'm respectful and make a choice not to act like a slobbering dog. 

I have almost been run over because some idiot in a car was watching a hot girl in short shorts walk by. It's disgusting. They need to grow up. It doesn't shock me that a man who would do that wouldn't be getting attention at home but I doubt he only became "that guy" after she stopped paying him attention. Usually people either are "that guy" or they aren't.


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> Judging from most of your posts I would say you live a very cloistered life. Step outside of your apparently very closed knit social circle and see how the rest of the world lives. So far on just this thread, you have never met a lady who likes her husband LOOKING (not ogling, that is another invention of your mind just like "leering" was) at other women and know of very few who get divorced (despite posts with links that prove you wrong) and your H diverts his eyes when he sees something he doesn't think he should (makes me wonder how you two ever connected?)
> 
> FTR just as many women use it as a means of control as do men. And probably more of them understand that their spouses did not go blind when they got married.


 I am fortunate to have a great husband, and no I have lived anything but a cloistered existence. 
Some men respect and love their wives and treat them well, others dont.


----------



## Diana7

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> We don't expect anyone to be blind but if we, and others around us, can notice you doing it then it's too much. I see hot guys all the time, it takes 1 second to think oh, he's hot and go back to my conversation. No one would notice I saw and was attracted to a man walking by because I'm respectful and make a choice not to act like a slobbering dog.
> 
> I have almost been run over because some idiot in a car was watching a hot girl in short shorts walk by. It's disgusting. They need to grow up. It doesn't shock me that a man who would do that wouldn't be getting attention at home but I doubt he only became "that guy" after she stopped paying him attention. Usually people either are "that guy" or they aren't.


Great post. :smile2::smile2:
The more a man treats his wife with respect the more he will get attention. I love my husband for his high standards and morals, he gets far more attention because of that. It makes me love and respect him far more, and it was one of the reasons I fell for him in the first place.


----------



## alexm

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yep, if my bf looks I never see it. That and he always looks at me like I'm the hottest in the room. That's how to get my attention
> 
> My respect level for men goes way down if I see them checking out hot girls.


This it how it should be for either gender.

That said, the only true way to keep your partners eye from wandering is to... ensure they have no reason to!

It doesn't justify being a creepy gawker at all, however - keep the damn flame alive, people! Make it so your partner doesn't require anybody else's attention or need to look at anybody else. If you want to be the only one in the room, then make yourself the only one in the room!


----------



## Luvher4life

Staring at somebody is totally different than taking some quick looks. What the OP's friend's husband is doing is wrong, regardless of the reason why. No doubt about it. It is extremely disrespectful, and should be nipped in the bud. What I'd like to know is whether he was always like this, or whether it just started. 

My feeling is if he just started doing this he is likely not getting his needs met at home, therefore is looking for some sort of validation elsewhere. Whether that would lead to an actual affair or not, I can't say because it depends on the strength of his character and commitment. 

If he has always ogled other women, that's different, and is likely ingrained in his character. Men like that don't have good boundaries, and don't even consider how others feel about it. Not much she can do in this case, except live with it, or maybe trade him in for somebody else.

Personally, I can fully appreciate God's beautiful creatures. I "look" all the time. I don't look at women with lust in my heart anymore, but I do look, and appreciate their beauty. Staring, ogling, and any overt attempt at getting their attention is not something I will do. Of course, I am happy at home, I respect my wife to the utmost, I am still very sexually attracted to my wife, and my needs are being met in full by the best person I've ever met. If I catch myself getting out of line (extremely rare), I think about how my wife would feel (even if she's not present). A couple of those kinds of thoughts keep me on the straight and narrow.


----------



## samyeagar

I've never been one to spend much time looking, but if I did, my wife would never notice because she is always glued to her phone.


----------



## Mr. Nail

well, another of my regrets. I keep coming back to this thread, worrying it like a loose tooth. It just seems like something is missing. The thread has turned out to be a wonderful opportunity for women to generalize and disparage men. I suppose it was originally created just for that purpose. Have fun, hack away, whatever. 
The cavity that is bugging me is this. Taking this original post to be a true and accurate depiction of the event, there is only one explanation for his actions. He is in an existing long term affair with the flirting woman. He is so deep in the fog that he didn't notice that his wife is watching his every move. He didn't even notice that she brought along a second observer. He is probably getting quite a thrill out of getting away with this right under her nose. It is Textbook affair script. And no one is calling it. 
Why? Because we are having so much fun throwing stereotypes at each other. Heck! I started it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

samyeagar said:


> I've never been one to spend much time looking, but if I did, my wife would never notice because she is always glued to her phone.


Ugg I hate seeing this too. It's a mixed bag gender-wise but I feel sorry for the spouse when they are being ignored for a phone. 

As far as The thread has turned out to be a wonderful opportunity for women to generalize and disparage men

There are plenty of amazing men who don't stare at hot, young girls. That's the whole point. It's not a "man thing" it's a rude and disrespectful thing. For either gender. 

I doubt they are having an affair. OP said he's been looking at many of them.


----------



## Diana7

alexm said:


> This it how it should be for either gender.
> 
> That said, the only true way to keep your partners eye from wandering is to... ensure they have no reason to!
> 
> It doesn't justify being a creepy gawker at all, however - keep the damn flame alive, people! Make it so your partner doesn't require anybody else's attention or need to look at anybody else. If you want to be the only one in the room, then make yourself the only one in the room!


 Agreed, but as you said, nothing justifies bad behavior. I had 6 years with no husband/partner after my first marriage ended, it didn't mean that my lack of a man made me act badly and gawk at other men just because I had no male attention. That's down to our character and our own standards.


----------



## Diana7

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ugg I hate seeing this too. It's a mixed bag gender-wise but I feel sorry for the spouse when they are being ignored for a phone.
> 
> As far as The thread has turned out to be a wonderful opportunity for women to generalize and disparage men
> 
> There are plenty of amazing men who don't stare at hot, young girls. That's the whole point. It's not a "man thing" it's a rude and disrespectful thing. For either gender.
> 
> I doubt they are having an affair. OP said he's been looking at many of them.


I agree, and I am married to one of those amazing men who dont do it. However I hate it when people, including some of the men here, try and justify it in all sort of ways. Its all down to the sort of person we are.


----------



## Mr. Nail

alexm said:


> This it how it should be for either gender.
> 
> That said, the only true way to keep your partners eye from wandering is to... ensure they have no reason to!
> 
> It doesn't justify being a creepy gawker at all, however - keep the damn flame alive, people! Make it so your partner doesn't require anybody else's attention or need to look at anybody else. *If you want to be the only one in the room, then make yourself the only one in the room*]!


" 'Cause I gonna make you see
There's nobody else here
No one like me"
- The Pretenders, Brass in Pocket

That song seems to sum up what it is I really want from a partner.


----------



## MrsHolland

Mr. Nail said:


> " 'Cause I gonna make you see
> There's nobody else here
> No one like me"
> - The Pretenders, Brass in Pocket
> 
> That song seems to sum up what it is I really want from a partner.


Too funny, a song about trying to steal the attention of another woman's man, that is what you want from a life partner.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Never really saw it that way, I always saw it as a person who was willing to go "full out". What I want from a partner is someone who doesn't hold back. I've said it before, you need Passion, probably bordering on BS Crazy. Who want's luke warm half committed? I know you don't. Anyway if I misinterpreted the song it still means that to me. Art is a collaboration between the artist and the observer. I'm pretty Sure the Pretenders wanted to sell a few more albums, so titillation was certainly a goal.

An interesting point about playing to steal another's partner. It was something that always bothered me, and something the mystery woman here is probably up to. Perhaps it is just a fault of my perspective, but why would a younger woman be interested in seducing an older man? The one time I asked, I was told it was about power. Power over the man's wife.


----------



## Steve1000

Suspect said:


> I have wondered if this is something all couples in their late 40s and 50s go through that it is the midlife crisis that he is having or just disrespectful. He noticed other younger females and didn't keep it from being obvious to the women he is finding attractive and interesting to him.


Not me. I prefer concentrating on something that I have. My wife makes it easy by wearing something attractive when we go out on Saturday evenings.


----------



## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> I am fortunate to have a great husband, and no I have lived anything but a cloistered existence.
> Some men respect and love their wives and treat them well, others dont.


 @Diana7, the reason he does not notice other women when he is with you is because as far as your husband is concerned, no other women exist.


----------



## MrsHolland

Mr. Nail said:


> Never really saw it that way, I always saw it as a person who was willing to go "full out". What I want from a partner is someone who doesn't hold back. I've said it before, you need Passion, probably bordering on BS Crazy. Who want's luke warm half committed? I know you don't. Anyway if I misinterpreted the song it still means that to me. Art is a collaboration between the artist and the observer. I'm pretty Sure the Pretenders wanted to sell a few more albums, so titillation was certainly a goal.
> 
> An interesting point about playing to steal another's partner. It was something that always bothered me, and something the mystery woman here is probably up to. Perhaps it is just a fault of my perspective, but why would a younger woman be interested in seducing an older man? The one time I asked, I was told it was about power. Power over the man's wife.


yeah I just thought it was funny. But the song is actually about stealing the attention of a taken man. Anyhow if taken out of the context of the song it came from then yes the words are good and I agree that it is important to be the only one in the room for your partner and to do this the home life must be filled with lots of loving and attention from and to both partners. That is a good goal in a relationship.

As for why any woman (or man) would actively seek the attention of another's partner right in front of them then I do think it is about power, low self esteem and all sorts of bad things. Personally I have no issue with mild flirting by either partner but in the case of the OP then that is just really poor form and not conducive to building a solid relationship.


----------



## alexm

Diana7 said:


> I agree, and I am married to one of those amazing men who dont do it. However I hate it when people, including some of the men here, try and justify it in all sort of ways. Its all down to the sort of person we are.


I certainly wasn't justifying it in the slightest. It's never okay.

I was merely saying that it's completely preventable. By either gender.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

alexm said:


> I certainly wasn't justifying it in the slightest. It's never okay.
> 
> I was merely saying that it's completely preventable. By either gender.


Some people will do it no matter what. It doesn't matter how much attention they are given, they still look at the hot girl. They justify it by saying it's only looking, men are visual beings, and all that crap. Or they think you are stupid and don't notice. 
They just have no respect for their partners. Nothing will change them and they will be stuck being the creepy guy staring at women all his life.


----------



## Diana7

alexm said:


> I certainly wasn't justifying it in the slightest. It's never okay.
> 
> I was merely saying that it's completely preventable. By either gender.


I have known men who still flirt and ogle despite having a wife who really loves them. If that is what a man is like, a good marriage won't stop it.


----------



## Diana7

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Some people will do it no matter what. It doesn't matter how much attention they are given, they still look at the hot girl. They justify it by saying it's only looking, men are visual beings, and all that crap. Or they think you are stupid and don't notice.
> They just have no respect for their partners. Nothing will change them and they will be stuck being the creepy guy staring at women all his life.


Yes, and thats why I would never want to be with a man like that.


----------



## john117

Diana7 said:


> You have a different idea of what acting badly is. I have never met a lady in 60 years who likes her husband ogling other ladies. Yes it is control, some men use it believe it or not.


We live in a McMansion and have the requisite European SUV. Yet wifey ogles more expensive McMansion properties and more expensive European SUVs. 

(Dear BMW designer: thank you for making the X5 similar looking to her X3 and even more thank you for totally going off the deep end with the X6 design wise. Our family budget thanks you  )


----------



## *Deidre*

My grandmother who passed away a few years ago once told me that she thought older men (married or not) who ''ogle'' much younger women do so in the hopes that the younger women look back at them and smile, and in that moment, those men feel young, again. She said unless the men act on it, it doesn't mean they don't love their wives, it just means they miss being young.

That sounds like it could be accurate.


----------



## Openminded

On the inside, you'll always be young.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Maybe because at some point, after 20+ yrs of marriage or so, the W stops trying. Perhaps she thinks it's enough just to be around sometimes, and let her H have "access" to her when he feels randy, but she never shows much interest. Maybe she stops trying to look nice or stay in shape. She doesn't get her hair done and forgets the nails. She starting cussing more (or whatever unladylike behavior that the H detests). She overeats and packs on the pounds. She stops buying and wearing nice, put together outfits, saying things like "do I have to dress up or try to look nice"? She takes off her bra as soon as she gets home and throws it on the kitchen floor. She decides that her other interests are more important than "date night" with hubby. She chooses to talk on the phone with girlfriends during dinner time, instead of joining her H at the table. She tells her hubby that his 6-figure salary just isn't enough for all the things she needs to buy, but she brings in 1/4 of his pay. And forget about BJs -- once a year on my birthday, really, is that the best you can do? How pathetic. 

Maybe this is the reason older married men might look at younger women fondly. Perhaps they are remembering the ways things used to be with the W? She used to have long luscious hair, put together outfit, matching undergarments. Nice, polite, with lots of smiles during the day and hanging on my every word as we did things together. And a go get it girl at night under the sheets. Heck I remember her going down on me in the car if a stoplight was particularly long. Where did she go?

It seems the ladies try really hard at getting the man, but at some point stop trying to keep the man. And for those that know our history, during periods of separation she had no trouble reverting back to the younger version in order to get "another man" or 2, so she knows how to do it.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

MAJDEATH said:


> Maybe because at some point, after 20+ yrs of marriage or so, the W stops trying. Perhaps she thinks it's enough just to be around sometimes, and let her H have "access" to her when he feels randy, but she never shows much interest. Maybe she stops trying to look nice or stay in shape. She doesn't get her hair done and forgets the nails. She starting cussing more (or whatever unladylike behavior that the H detests). She overeats and packs on the pounds. She stops buying and wearing nice, put together outfits, saying things like "do I have to dress up or try to look nice"? She takes off her bra as soon as she gets home and throws it on the kitchen floor. She decides that her other interests are more important than "date night" with hubby. She chooses to talk on the phone with girlfriends during dinner time, instead of joining her H at the table. She tells her hubby that his 6-figure salary just isn't enough for all the things she needs to buy, but she brings in 1/4 of his pay. And forget about BJs -- once a year on my birthday, really, is that the best you can do? How pathetic.


Jeez. Your bitter is showing, but from what I remember of your past posts, you're choosing to stay with a serial cheater who doesn't respect you. So you really can't compare your situation to the average one.

I'm in awe of how many here are trying to *blame* the woman for a man's **** behavior, as though being a super-model and constantly catering to a man's every whim and need will somehow provide her with a magic cloak of invincibility against her horn-dog husband slobbering at women. Good luck with THAT.

A good lot of older men DON'T own mirrors. They're delusional and think their shiny scalps, beer guts, the nest of hair growing out of their noses and ears, their haggard looking faces, their flat asses and their uni-brows are still attractive, so by golly, their wives had better be stepping up to the plate and making sure _they're_ super models 24/7! And their super model wives had *also* better be swinging from chandeliers every night in sexy lingerie and 6" platform heels, making sure Quasimodo is satisfied because if he* isn't*, then her punishment will be him out and about drooling at younger women (who are more than likely disgusted by his flat ass and uni-brow as well as his sophomoric behavior.) But hey...delusion is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Some men actually *evolve* and others simply never do.


----------



## john117

It takes little effort to look presentable. Yet many people of both genders end up like People of Walmart.


----------



## Haiku

I'm nearsighted and only wear my contacts while in the office. 

If you happen to see me staring in your direction at the mall or market don't be offended. You're probably just standing near the men's room door.


----------



## MrsHolland

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jeez. Your bitter is showing, but from what I remember of your past posts, you're choosing to stay with a serial cheater who doesn't respect you. So you really can't compare your situation to the average one.
> 
> I'm in awe of how many here are trying to *blame* the woman for a man's **** behavior, as though being a super-model and constantly catering to a man's every whim and need will somehow provide her with a magic cloak of invincibility against her horn-dog husband slobbering at women. Good luck with THAT.
> 
> A good lot of older men DON'T own mirrors. They're delusional and think their shiny scalps, beer guts, the nest of hair growing out of their noses and ears, their haggard looking faces, their flat asses and their uni-brows are still attractive, so by golly, their wives had better be stepping up to the plate and making sure _they're_ super models 24/7! And their super model wives had *also* better be swinging from chandeliers every night in sexy lingerie and 6" platform heels, making sure Quasimodo is satisfied because if he* isn't*, then her punishment will be him out and about drooling at younger women (who are more than likely disgusted by his flat ass and uni-brow as well as his sophomoric behavior.) But hey...delusion is a wonderful thing, ain't it?
> 
> Some men actually *evolve* and others simply never do.


:grin2: scarily true, oh so funny as well


ETA and any middle aged man that thinks that men age better than women clearly has never been a middle aged woman trying to find a half decent middle aged man to date. It's a cesspool out there. Men do not age better than women.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Some men stop trying too. They stop dating and romancing and having long conversations. 
Doesn't give a woman a free pass to start openly staring at young, hot men when she is out with you. 

Oh well if you paid me more attention I wouldn't have to.... I'd love to see how that would go down. 

Besides, are you going to want to give your wife more attention when she's acting like a fool? 

Even IF they never did it one time until she stopped trying, there's not a lot that is as unattractive as a man staring at some woman (and having been stared at too, it's creepy. Stop it) Instantly I am going to not want to have sex with you or give a crap to try so you're shooting yourself in the foot. 
Why make things worse?

In fact some of your men friends notice and think it's gross too and stop wanting to go out with you because you embarrass them. Twice I've heard from 2 different men that they won't go out with certain men (one was an older guy and the other a younger guy) cause they kept staring at waitresses and makes the whole group look like d-bags. 

I don't think anyone could accuse me of living in a bubble or being a prude. It's just plain gross and disrespectful. Your wife not paying you attention doesn't change the fact that you look like a creep. 

To get more attention you don't start acting less attractive.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MrsHolland said:


> :grin2: scarily true, oh so funny as well
> 
> 
> ETA and any middle aged man that thinks that men age better than women clearly has never been a middle aged woman trying to find a half decent middle aged man to date. It's a cesspool out there. Men do not age better than women.


Oh geez yes. For fun I switched my gender on my dating sites to check out my competition. Beautiful women, full profiles, several well done pictures. 

Men's side- shot of them with a fish they caught (literally like 70% had a fish shot. Wtf) Maybe confused about what plenty of fish meant? 

Looks- Average at best. Most looked a lot older than the age they said they were. A few maybe lied, some just didn't age well it seems. 

Profile - hey, if you wanna know more ask. 

Ego- through the roof. 

Some of the most unattractive will go on and on and you'll see how bitter they are cause women suck and never pick the nice guy. It's all women's fault. They are so stupid they don't even see that I'm being nice to them. Those b*tches. 

Others- All the girls want me. I have so many options. You're so lucky if I pick you cause I'm in such demand. Oh and I'm the king in bed. All the girls have come back months later to complain they can't find another man like me. Ya.... no. 

That's not to say there weren't good options but it was like fighting through a walking dead zombie hoard to find them sometimes.


----------



## Livvie

She'sStillGotIt said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe because at some point, after 20+ yrs of marriage or so, the W stops trying. Perhaps she thinks it's enough just to be around sometimes, and let her H have "access" to her when he feels randy, but she never shows much interest. Maybe she stops trying to look nice or stay in shape. She doesn't get her hair done and forgets the nails. She starting cussing more (or whatever unladylike behavior that the H detests). She overeats and packs on the pounds. She stops buying and wearing nice, put together outfits, saying things like "do I have to dress up or try to look nice"? She takes off her bra as soon as she gets home and throws it on the kitchen floor. She decides that her other interests are more important than "date night" with hubby. She chooses to talk on the phone with girlfriends during dinner time, instead of joining her H at the table. She tells her hubby that his 6-figure salary just isn't enough for all the things she needs to buy, but she brings in 1/4 of his pay. And forget about BJs -- once a year on my birthday, really, is that the best you can do? How pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez. Your bitter is showing, but from what I remember of your past posts, you're choosing to stay with a serial cheater who doesn't respect you. So you really can't compare your situation to the average one.
> 
> I'm in awe of how many here are trying to *blame* the woman for a man's **** behavior, as though being a super-model and constantly catering to a man's every whim and need will somehow provide her with a magic cloak of invincibility against her horn-dog husband slobbering at women. Good luck with THAT.
> 
> A good lot of older men DON'T own mirrors. They're delusional and think their shiny scalps, beer guts, the nest of hair growing out of their noses and ears, their haggard looking faces, their flat asses and their uni-brows are still attractive, so by golly, their wives had better be stepping up to the plate and making sure _they're_ super models 24/7! And their super model wives had *also* better be swinging from chandeliers every night in sexy lingerie and 6" platform heels, making sure Quasimodo is satisfied because if he* isn't*, then her punishment will be him out and about drooling at younger women (who are more than likely disgusted by his flat ass and uni-brow as well as his sophomoric behavior.) But hey...delusion is a wonderful thing, ain't it?
> 
> Some men actually *evolve* and others simply never do.
Click to expand...

I was in a relationship with a man 7 years older than me. I am cute, sexy, weight about 115, passionate, adored him, and wanted more sex than him. We were in a seaside town sitting on a bench on the main drag talking. A very young woman (like 30 years younger than my boyfriend) walked by wearing short shorts low cut top. He *cut off talking to me mid sentence*, and even moved his head as she walked so he could keep staring as she walked on by. It was rude, and it was a little gross. She was his daughters age. I never thought of him the same way after that.


----------



## samyeagar

Livvie said:


> I was in a relationship with a man 7 years older than me. I am cute, sexy, weight about 115, passionate, adored him, and wanted more sex than him. We were in a seaside town sitting on a bench on the main drag talking. A very young woman (like 30 years younger than my boyfriend) walked by wearing short shorts low cut top. He *cut off talking to me mid sentence*, and even moved his head as she walked so he could keep staring as she walked on by. It was rude, and it was a little gross. She was his daughters age. I never thought of him the same way after that.


I've been on the receiving end of that behavior, and it's not fun at all, especially considering I don't ever elicit the same reaction.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I never look at other women in front of my W, unless she asks me to. But even then it might degrade to a comparison conversation. She'll ask me if a certain piece of clothing or an accessory looks nice, and I'll say yes or no. But then she'll say "but it wouldn't look nice on me because I'm too fat, right?"


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MAJDEATH said:


> I never look at other women in front of my W, unless she asks me to. But even then it might degrade to a comparison conversation. She'll ask me if a certain piece of clothing or an accessory looks nice, and I'll say yes or no. But then she'll say "but it wouldn't look nice on me because I'm too fat, right?"


Sounds like someone is in need of some compliments. 


This is obviously for lols but there's some truth there too. There is always some truth behind what someone is saying. Picking up on it will clue you towards what they are needing.


----------



## MAJDEATH

She'sStillGotIt said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe because at some point, after 20+ yrs of marriage or so, the W stops trying. Perhaps she thinks it's enough just to be around sometimes, and let her H have "access" to her when he feels randy, but she never shows much interest. Maybe she stops trying to look nice or stay in shape. She doesn't get her hair done and forgets the nails. She starting cussing more (or whatever unladylike behavior that the H detests). She overeats and packs on the pounds. She stops buying and wearing nice, put together outfits, saying things like "do I have to dress up or try to look nice"? She takes off her bra as soon as she gets home and throws it on the kitchen floor. She decides that her other interests are more important than "date night" with hubby. She chooses to talk on the phone with girlfriends during dinner time, instead of joining her H at the table. She tells her hubby that his 6-figure salary just isn't enough for all the things she needs to buy, but she brings in 1/4 of his pay. And forget about BJs -- once a year on my birthday, really, is that the best you can do? How pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez. Your bitter is showing, but from what I remember of your past posts, you're choosing to stay with a serial cheater who doesn't respect you. So you really can't compare your situation to the average one.
> 
> I'm in awe of how many here are trying to *blame* the woman for a man's **** behavior, as though being a super-model and constantly catering to a man's every whim and need will somehow provide her with a magic cloak of invincibility against her horn-dog husband slobbering at women. Good luck with THAT.
> 
> A good lot of older men DON'T own mirrors. They're delusional and think their shiny scalps, beer guts, the nest of hair growing out of their noses and ears, their haggard looking faces, their flat asses and their uni-brows are still attractive, so by golly, their wives had better be stepping up to the plate and making sure _they're_ super models 24/7! And their super model wives had *also* better be swinging from chandeliers every night in sexy lingerie and 6" platform heels, making sure Quasimodo is satisfied because if he* isn't*, then her punishment will be him out and about drooling at younger women (who are more than likely disgusted by his flat ass and uni-brow as well as his sophomoric behavior.) But hey...delusion is a wonderful thing, ain't it?
> 
> Some men actually *evolve* and others simply never do.
Click to expand...

Evolve. Nice choice of words. Let me "mansplain" something to you. I think some ladies may be married to a selfish jerk, while other husband are pretty OK. Then there is a third group that dotes on their wives and just wants to make them happy. Of course there are tradeoffs and things change over time, but he would do most anything for her.

I think some women may take advantage of that 3rd category. And that was my possible answer to why some old guys ogle younger women.
I think it goes back to the age-old saying that women marry hoping the man will change, and men marry hoping the woman will stay the same.


----------



## SunCMars

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jeez. Your bitter is showing, but from what I remember of your past posts, you're choosing to stay with a serial cheater who doesn't respect you. So you really can't compare your situation to the average one.
> 
> I'm in awe of how many here are trying to *blame* the woman for a man's **** behavior, as though being a super-model and constantly catering to a man's every whim and need will somehow provide her with a magic cloak of invincibility against her horn-dog husband slobbering at women. Good luck with THAT.
> 
> A good lot of older men DON'T own mirrors. They're delusional and think their shiny scalps, beer guts, the nest of hair growing out of their noses and ears, their haggard looking faces, their flat asses and their uni-brows are still attractive, so by golly, their wives had better be stepping up to the plate and making sure _they're_ super models 24/7! And their super model wives had *also* better be swinging from chandeliers every night in sexy lingerie and 6" platform heels, making sure Quasimodo is satisfied because if he* isn't*, then her punishment will be him out and about drooling at younger women (who are more than likely disgusted by his flat ass and uni-brow as well as his sophomoric behavior.) But hey...delusion is a wonderful thing, ain't it?
> 
> Some men actually *evolve* and others simply never do.


God help us! 

The Red Queens Enforcer has spoken!

Once you get your fangs in a man, he is doomed!
..................................................................................

But, of course:

You are spot on, on this post. I do agree, Dear...

The spot on OP's rug keeps getting larger, more yellow and smelly....since her oblivious and lecherous husband keeps peeing out his wayward bile.


----------



## MrsHolland

MAJDEATH said:


> Evolve. Nice choice of words. Let me "mansplain" something to you. I think some ladies may be married to a selfish jerk, while other husband are pretty OK. Then there is a third group that dotes on their wives and just wants to make them happy. Of course there are tradeoffs and things change over time, but he would do most anything for her.
> 
> I think some women may take advantage of that 3rd category. And that was my possible answer to why some old guys ogle younger women.
> *I think it goes back to the age-old saying that women marry hoping the man will change, and men marry hoping the woman will stay the same*.


Just another stupid saying. Have been married twice and never wanted the man to change.

MAJDEATH you come across as having a very narrow experience with women, like a very small town type of mentality. So it is not at all credible when you make sweeping posts about what women are like, your words show that you have very little understanding of women and you seem to think we are all the same.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Since this thread is happening in the Ladies lounge, I'll just go with the flow.
Why are men differnt from government bonds?
Bonds Mature.
Another word for evolve is Mutate.
I'm actually a bit proud of only having been married to one woman and thus having a small town narrow view of women.
I really like small town mentality. I don't need Urban problems in my life, . . . . . .


----------



## Dannip

Mr. Nail said:


> Since this thread is happening in the Ladies lounge, I'll just go with the flow.
> Why are men differnt from government bonds?
> Bonds Mature.
> Another word for evolve is Mutate.
> I'm actually a bit proud of only having been married to one woman and thus having a small town narrow view of women.
> I really like small town mentality. I don't need Urban problems in my life, . . . . . .


Most folks don't keep bonds to maturity.


----------



## MrsHolland

Mr. Nail said:


> Since this thread is happening in the Ladies lounge, I'll just go with the flow.
> Why are men differnt from government bonds?
> Bonds Mature.
> Another word for evolve is Mutate.
> I'm actually a bit proud of only having been married to one woman and thus having a small town narrow view of women.
> I really like small town mentality. I don't need Urban problems in my life, . . . . . .


There is no problem with only having one woman in your life. The issue is when people that have limited experience then make baseless assumptions and judgements based on that limited real life experience.

Do you think all women are the same as your wife?


----------



## MAJDEATH

I don't think I every said "all women" on anything. I certainly don't pretend to understand the fairer sex, far from it. But I would like to think I understand the male mindset, and offered a possible answer as for why some married men feel the need to ogle young women. It must be a powerful force, because I have seen guys on the beach, in front of their wives, that cannot look away from a nice bikini, even when they know they are being watched and will get yelled at. 

Keep in mind it is this same attraction that brought the happy couple together in the first place. After you say "I do" then you are supposed to say "I don't" look at other women :wink2:


----------



## Mr. Nail

MrsHolland said:


> There is no problem with only having one woman in your life. The issue is when people that have limited experience then make baseless assumptions and judgements based on that limited real life experience.
> 
> Do you think all women are the same as your wife?


No, in fact my limited experience, only 4 countries on three continents, has led me to believe that there is no woman that is even similar to my wife. Which is of course why I will choose to remain single should I by chance become that way.
MN


----------



## samyeagar

Mr. Nail said:


> No, in fact my limited experience, only 4 countries on three continents, has led me to believe that there is no woman that is even similar to my wife. Which is of course why I will choose to remain single should I by chance become that way.
> MN


Ok, this actually made me laugh out loud


----------



## LaReine

How odd


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Affaircare said:


> Okay here it is: I'm 55yo and had seven children. I have gray hairs and some wrinkles--a few things are beginning to sag. I'm not 20yo!!
> 
> But I'm also not 20yo. I have a WHOLE LIFETIME of experiences and happy memories wit my Dear Hubby. I'm not a fool--I may not be the hottest "looking" woman in the room as few go for that Rosie Cotton hobbit look! LOL  But he also doesn't disrespect me by ignoring me or behaving in that "old goat" way. She (the 20yo) may have it tight and put together well, but I held his hair while he was sick, I made biscuits and gravy as a surprise for him this morning, and I had his children! It's not a competition--I win hands down.
> 
> And I think that's the main issue. Not everyone is a natural-born "beauty"! But when you've been with someone for a lifetime and you respect them, you don't treat them like they still have to "compete." You treat them like YOU are the winner because you get to be with THEM! It doesn't sound like he treats her like that.


Beautiful post.. a lifetime of memories ... and all that sharing.. heart, soul and bodies ... bearing children together...watching them grow together...there is such a deep bonding here..... I have the utmost respect for faithful men that are devoted to their wives throughout a lifetime... 

My husband will admit he likes to look...we've talked about such things very openly, down to what goes through his mind...due to threads I have read here - wanting to share our perspective(s)... I literally laughed when he shared his thoughts with me.. I loved the honesty... maybe it was easy to talk about...as I have always felt his devotion ...

I see it as, it just shows he has a pulse....if he never looked.. I would worry his testosterone levels needed checked. 

I know he would feel awful If I ever felt this way, disrespected, if I sensed he secretly wanted to ravish another..... he's always been that "one woman" type... his actions, who he is as a man , a husband.. that means something TO HIM even.. He would say this..

On this side of the coin.. us women notice a good looking man too... come on....we all do ...it's only natural....looks may give a shiver down the spine... I have a Lifetime movie on right now with a gorgeous young vibrant body on a man....YUM... But still these young men could never replace my husband & what HE brings to my life...he's been there for every high, my lowest lows to wipe my tears, the joys and all those shared orgasms, all those after-glows.. Intimacy like this lives on in us...


We're getting older too.. but the intensity we've always shared has remained somehow... We should never gawk, or linger... if there is any rise in temperature due to someone catching our eye... it's time to remind ourselves what we have at home...and bring it all back to each other.... If things are flowing hot at home.. this is far less of an issue.. or should be...


----------



## Blondilocks

When it comes to 'looking': people can be observers (people watchers), glancers (someone in the crowd caught their attention), gawkers/oglers/rubberneckers (can't tear their eyes away - also known as sophomores) and advertisers (those who pick a specific seat in order to catch someone's attention). It's the advertisers who want that specific person to know that they have the green light to reciprocate the interest if desired. The gawkers are disrespectful but it is more of an immaturity problem. The advertisers are showing the most disrespect and need to have a 'come to Jesus' convo or shown the front door.


----------



## DTO

MrsHolland said:


> ETA and any middle aged man that thinks that men age better than women clearly has never been a middle aged woman trying to find a half decent middle aged man to date. It's a cesspool out there. Men do not age better than women.


Wow! Being kind of hard on the guys, aren't ya?

It took some doing to find a lady with whom I was compatible, but I'd never use that language. Just seems mean.


----------



## Personal

^^^^

I don't think she's being harsh at all, ageing is not pretty for anyone guys or gals.


----------



## MrsHolland

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



DTO said:


> Wow! Being kind of hard on the guys, aren't ya?
> 
> It took some doing to find a lady with whom I was compatible, but I'd never use that language. Just seems mean.


What language :scratchhead: The only word that is not in everyday use is *cesspool* but hey it is a good, descriptive word IMHO.

A PP made the statement that men age better than women. I'm simply stating what I found out in the world when dating post divorce. Sorry it offends but the truth is that a lot of men do not age so well, weight, no hair, lacking in style, untoned etc. The flip side is that there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged men equally there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged women. Men do not age better than women this is a fallacy.


----------



## DTO

I see this as two issues.

First issue: the staring and leering is wrong. It has nothing to do with how old he is, how young the lady is, etc. It's rude and invasive - period. He would be considered a creepy mouth-breather even if he was the same age as the object of his attention.

For the second issue: his wife is clearly troubled by his behavior. And (rightfully so) the question has come up as to whether she has a right to be bothered and/or angry about it. On this one, that depends on whether she is meeting his marital needs. If not, she really has no right to be bothered by his looking around.

That comes from my personal belief that sexual fulfillment is a perk of marriage (for both husbands and wives). Married people (again, both husbands and wives) deserve sex from their spouses. It is simply the price of monogamy. IOW, if I have a need (sex) and you are going to assert your right to be the exclusive provider for that need (monogamy), then you need to provide well.

I know from experience that it's much easier to avert your gaze when you are well-cared for. With my ex, I certainly didn't gawk or ogle attractive women, because that's just not me (I would feel uncomfortable if someone did that to me). However, I didn't feel guilty if I admired the lovely young ladies at the mall food court during lunch, because that's the only action I got basically.

Now that I have a great lady for a GF, that is much less of an issue. I simply don't have much desire to look, because she takes goods care of me and makes sure that my wants and needs are a priority (in and out of the bedroom).


----------



## Diana7

DTO said:


> I see this as two issues.
> 
> First issue: the staring and leering is wrong. It has nothing to do with how old he is, how young the lady is, etc. It's rude and invasive - period. He would be considered a creepy mouth-breather even if he was the same age as the object of his attention.
> 
> For the second issue: his wife is clearly troubled by his behavior. And (rightfully so) the question has come up as to whether she has a right to be bothered and/or angry about it. On this one, that depends on whether she is meeting his marital needs. If not, she really has no right to be bothered by his looking around.
> 
> That comes from my personal belief that sexual fulfillment is a perk of marriage (for both husbands and wives). Married people (again, both husbands and wives) deserve sex from their spouses. It is simply the price of monogamy. IOW, if I have a need (sex) and you are going to assert your right to be the exclusive provider for that need (monogamy), then you need to provide well.
> 
> I know from experience that it's much easier to avert your gaze when you are well-cared for. With my ex, I certainly didn't gawk or ogle attractive women, because that's just not me (I would feel uncomfortable if someone did that to me). However, I didn't feel guilty if I admired the lovely young ladies at the mall food court during lunch, because that's the only action I got basically.
> 
> Now that I have a great lady for a GF, that is much less of an issue. I simply don't have much desire to look, because she takes goods care of me and makes sure that my wants and needs are a priority (in and out of the bedroom).


Some good points but I feel that its important for us to act well whatever is happening in our marriage or lives, So, even if I am getting no sex, it doesn't give me an excuse to act badly and leer at other men.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

DTO said:


> Wow! Being kind of hard on the guys, aren't ya?
> 
> It took some doing to find a lady with whom I was compatible, but I'd never use that language. Just seems mean.


 @*MrsHolland* wasn't wrong in her assessment. If the truth is 'mean,' oh well. 

I did online dating when I was 52-ish and she's absolutely *correct* about middle-aged men not aging well. I can't even _count_ how many men contacted me who looked like my _grandfather_ - and they were MY age or just a couple years older. One guy honestly looked like he had one foot in the grave and I nicknamed him Lurch (from the Adams Family). There also seemed to be an inordinate amount of fat biker types with skullets, tattoos, and 'summer' teeth (summer there, summer not). Gag. Most were just _so_ haggard looking, out of shape and just incredibly unattractive, but I still wasn't going to resort to chasing 30-somethings, either.

I came to refer to them as The Parade of the Damned.

It is what it is.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> Some good points but I feel that its important for us to act well whatever is happening in our marriage or lives, So, even if I am getting no sex, it doesn't give me an excuse to act badly and leer at other men.


Where do you keep coming up with this "Leering at other women" thing. The OP said nothing about the H leering at women. Can you get of your high horse, stop twisting words and quit being condescending?

One thing that I have not read thru all of these posts is that anybody suggest that the W should talk to the H about the issue if it is clearly so much of a problem for her. Rather than enlisting the aid of a GF, whom she barely knows apparently, to validate her belief, perhaps she would be better served to have a conversation with the source of her discomfort.


----------



## Ynot

She'sStillGotIt said:


> @*MrsHolland* wasn't wrong in her assessment. If the truth is 'mean,' oh well.
> 
> I did online dating when I was 52-ish and she's absolutely *correct* about middle-aged men not aging well. I can't even _count_ how many men contacted me who looked like my _grandfather_ - and they were MY age or just a couple years older. One guy honestly looked like he had one foot in the grave and I nicknamed him Lurch (from the Adams Family). There also seemed to be an inordinate amount of fat biker types with skullets, tattoos, and 'summer' teeth (summer there, summer not). Gag. Most were just _so_ haggard looking, out of shape and just incredibly unattractive, but I still wasn't going to resort to chasing 30-somethings, either.
> 
> I came to refer to them as The Parade of the Damned.
> 
> It is what it is.


Not arguing against you, but would just like to point out that letting yourself go is just another aspect of not really understanding life. It holds true for both men and women and I fear it will only get worse as millennials and beyond continue to grow older. The doughty overweight woman who never understands why her H left for a younger woman or the beer-bellied, slovenly man who can't understand why his W had an affair. The gamer who never sees daylight and sits in his mom's basement playing video games all day doesn't understand why no one is attracted to him. None of these people look within and make the conscious decision to be the best that they can, to make the best out of life that they can. All of them would rather make excuses and rot away. I am not saying everyone has to be a bikini model, but taking care of what you got is the minimum we should expect from ourselves as well as from others.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Ynot said:


> Where do you keep coming up with this "Leering at other women" thing. The OP said nothing about the H leering at women. Can you get of your high horse, stop twisting words and quit being condescending?


Actually, the OP's post was ALL ABOUT her friend's husband staring at women.

_*From the OP:*_
Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him *staring at her.* I know this is hurtful to her. I have told her to follow her gut instinct. I don't know her well enough to know if I could say you are correct *he is more interested in her paying her attention than acknowledging that his wife is even present.*

I have wondered if this is something all couples in their late 40s and 50s go through that it is the midlife crisis that he is having or just disrespectful. * He noticed other younger females and didn't keep it from being obvious to the women he is finding attractive and interesting to him.* I see these immature females enjoying the attention of his *constant looks, stares, and smiles. 
*
So maybe the OP didn't use the word "leer" which simply means to gaze at in an unpleasant or lascivious way - but that's EXACTLY what Father Time is doing, according to the OP.


----------



## Ynot

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Actually, the OP's post was ALL ABOUT her friend's husband staring at women.
> 
> _*From the OP:*_
> Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him *staring at her.* I know this is hurtful to her. I have told her to follow her gut instinct. I don't know her well enough to know if I could say you are correct *he is more interested in her paying her attention than acknowledging that his wife is even present.*
> 
> I have wondered if this is something all couples in their late 40s and 50s go through that it is the midlife crisis that he is having or just disrespectful. * He noticed other younger females and didn't keep it from being obvious to the women he is finding attractive and interesting to him.* I see these immature females enjoying the attention of his *constant looks, stares, and smiles.
> *
> So maybe the OP didn't use the word "leer" which simply means to gaze at in an unpleasant or lascivious way - but that's EXACTLY what Father Time is doing, according to the OP.


Perhaps you missed the part about where the objects of his attention are enjoying his attention? Leering implies the looks are unwelcome, but in this case they obviously were not.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

The kind of men who stare at women are not the kind of men you just politely ask not to and they stop forever imo 

They clearly see nothing wrong with it which is problem #1. 

They are disrespecting you already so why would they listen to you? 

Now you have to wonder if they are staring at girls and being creepy when you aren't there. 

I've seen some variations of this in "modern day dating" via the man liking/loving hot girl selfies on fb or instagram. Same thing in my book. 
I dumped 2 guys for liking hot girl pics. I do not want to be with the creep putting loves on sexy 20 year old half dressed. You're 40. Grow the heck up. 
They figured I was jealous. I figured they were pathetic creeps. One guy said he'd stop but that's not good enough when I know what he is now. 

A man is either "that guy" or he's not. No point trying to change one who is.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Of course one reason some women go out wearing revealing clothes is because they are seeking attention from men, married or not.


----------



## Mr. Nail

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



MrsHolland said:


> What language :scratchhead: The only word that is not in everyday use is *cesspool* but hey it is a good, descriptive word IMHO.
> 
> A PP made the statement that men age better than women. I'm simply stating what I found out in the world when dating post divorce. Sorry it offends but the truth is that a lot of men do not age so well, weight, no hair, lacking in style, untoned etc. The flip side is that there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged men equally there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged women. Men do not age better than women this is a fallacy.


You forgot Short, and Ugly as a bridge troll! Really slipping there, Are you taking your Ginko?


----------



## MrsHolland

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



Mr. Nail said:


> You forgot Short, and Ugly as a bridge troll! Really slipping there, Are you taking your Ginko?


I had to google Ginko. Might go and buy some today, thanks 

(and as you already know I like short men and was married to one)


----------



## WorkingOnMe

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



MrsHolland said:


> I had to google Ginko. Might go and buy some today, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> (and as you already know I like short men and was married to one)




Don't bother with ginkgo. 1/2 pill of modafinil will work much better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrsHolland

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



WorkingOnMe said:


> Don't bother with ginkgo. 1/2 pill of modafinil will work much better.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok I had to google that one too. So far today it has been inferred I have alzheimer's and narcolepsy, I'm off to go cry into my wheaties :crying:


----------



## MAJDEATH

Does the OPs concerns also apply to hot young women on screen? Is he supposed to look away at the movies or the tele?


----------



## MrsHolland

MAJDEATH said:


> Does the OPs concerns also apply to hot young women on screen? Is he supposed to look away at the movies or the tele?


This question makes no sense in regard to the OP. You can't interact with people on TV, can't catch their eye or get their attention.


----------



## anonmd

Thread is a slow moving train wreck . Posted in the ladies lounge, a handful of male posts really is sufficient to give the flavor that the guys might have a slightly diff. view. Why continue to pile on for page after page?


----------



## samyeagar

anonmd said:


> Thread is a slow moving train wreck . Posted in the ladies lounge, a handful of male posts really is sufficient to give the flavor that the guys might have a slightly diff. view. Why continue to pile on for page after page?


Here on TAM...we're free range chickens...it's what we do


----------



## Personal

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



MrsHolland said:


> Ok I had to google that one too.


Me to.

I am always amazed by the fact that our American friends know the names of so many drugs, whereas I don't think most Australians know the names of many drugs at all.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



Personal said:


> Me to.
> 
> I am always amazed by the fact that our American friends know the names of so many drugs, whereas I don't think most Australians know the names of many drugs at all.


I get some American channels here in Canada. Like every 4th commercial is for a medication. It's insane. I can tell if I'm on a Canada channel or American channel based on one of two things 
Ads with fast food being super cheap (now for $1 the whooper burger or $5 foot long ) 
And 
Ads for medicine. 

Why are you having to ask your Dr about a medication? Shouldn't they just tell you about it? 
I get a note with squiggles and I hand it to the pharmacy and they give me meds. I barely know the names of the ones I'm on. One of them is just "the blue one" and the pharmacy knows what I mean.


----------



## LaReine

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I get some American channels here in Canada. Like every 4th commercial is for a medication. It's insane. I can tell if I'm on a Canada channel or American channel based on one of two things
> 
> Ads with fast food being super cheap (now for $1 the whooper burger or $5 foot long )
> 
> And
> 
> Ads for medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you having to ask your Dr about a medication? Shouldn't they just tell you about it?
> 
> I get a note with squiggles and I hand it to the pharmacy and they give me meds. I barely know the names of the ones I'm on. One of them is just "the blue one" and the pharmacy knows what I mean.




Agree I'm part.

When I am given a prescription, I always look into the medication first. 
Drs aren't infallible.
I had one actually tell me that she was prescribing me a specific contraceptive pill because they had a reciprocal agreement (or something to that effect)... I was like "ya I don't care. I know that pill and I will not take it"

Had to go elsewhere to get a different brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> Where do you keep coming up with this "Leering at other women" thing. The OP said nothing about the H leering at women. Can you get of your high horse, stop twisting words and quit being condescending?
> 
> One thing that I have not read thru all of these posts is that anybody suggest that the W should talk to the H about the issue if it is clearly so much of a problem for her. Rather than enlisting the aid of a GF, whom she barely knows apparently, to validate her belief, perhaps she would be better served to have a conversation with the source of her discomfort.


Leering, ogling, staring, whatever word you want to use is fine by me. They all mean the same thing in the end.


----------



## john117

Sidebar apologies...my wife spent a few years working marketing analytics for big pharma. The objective of the game is to build brand recognition on patients so they can ask their doctors. Remember that in the USA 80% of prescriptions are for generics, and woe be to the patient who needs brand name no generic available. 

Besides, with both eyes fixed via cataract surgery I have better than 20/20 vision and can ogle pretty things in the next area code


----------



## Diana7

MAJDEATH said:


> Does the OPs concerns also apply to hot young women on screen? Is he supposed to look away at the movies or the tele?


Maybe it depends on whether he deliberately watches stuff with that in, or whether it comes up in an advert say.


----------



## DTO

Diana7 said:


> Some good points but I feel that its important for us to act well whatever is happening in our marriage or lives, So, even if I am getting no sex, it doesn't give me an excuse to act badly and leer at other men.


I agree. That is why I said he should not be doing it at all.

To say it differently, he is behaving badly by leering at other women - period. If she is not meeting his intimate needs and calling him out for directing his attention elsewhere, then she is behaving badly too.

In that case they both need to act more appropriately. I do not feel that anything she does gives him license to leer at women, because (as I stated before) it is inappropriate regardless of his age or marital status.


----------



## DTO

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*

I know cesspool is not a bad word. And I know that aging is not flattering to either gender.

I interpreted that comment to mean that the sea of available guys (balding, out of shape, etc.) is a cesspool. And, as a recent member of that group (I've only been exclusively with my GF for five months), I find that somewhat offensive, as well as untrue. (It's more accurate to say that quality available guys are out there, but possibly under the radar - but that's a different topic.)

Let's suppose I were to make a blanket statement like "the single women out there suck - they are always tired, always broke, and just want a guy to smooth out their lives" I would be rebuked for saying something insulting that clearly does not apply to all (or even a majority) of the dating pool.



MrsHolland said:


> What language :scratchhead: The only word that is not in everyday use is *cesspool* but hey it is a good, descriptive word IMHO.
> 
> A PP made the statement that men age better than women. I'm simply stating what I found out in the world when dating post divorce. Sorry it offends but the truth is that a lot of men do not age so well, weight, no hair, lacking in style, untoned etc. The flip side is that there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged men equally there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged women. Men do not age better than women this is a fallacy.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I think the point was that many middle aged men get this idea that they are now the ones in a better position than their middle aged wives. They can do better, they can meet a younger, hotter girl. They get better with age and she's stuck past her prime. 

I've seen this idea floated around TAM a lot. It's just not true.


----------



## MattMatt

MAJDEATH said:


> Maybe because at some point, after 20+ yrs of marriage or so, the W stops trying. Perhaps she thinks it's enough just to be around sometimes, and let her H have "access" to her when he feels randy, but she never shows much interest. Maybe she stops trying to look nice or stay in shape. She doesn't get her hair done and forgets the nails. She starting cussing more (or whatever unladylike behavior that the H detests). She overeats and packs on the pounds. She stops buying and wearing nice, put together outfits, saying things like "do I have to dress up or try to look nice"?* She takes off her bra as soon as she gets home and throws it on the kitchen floor.* She decides that her other interests are more important than "date night" with hubby. She chooses to talk on the phone with girlfriends during dinner time, instead of joining her H at the table. She tells her hubby that his 6-figure salary just isn't enough for all the things she needs to buy, but she brings in 1/4 of his pay. And forget about BJs -- once a year on my birthday, really, is that the best you can do? How pathetic.
> 
> Maybe this is the reason older married men might look at younger women fondly. Perhaps they are remembering the ways things used to be with the W? She used to have long luscious hair, put together outfit, matching undergarments. Nice, polite, with lots of smiles during the day and hanging on my every word as we did things together. And a go get it girl at night under the sheets. Heck I remember her going down on me in the car if a stoplight was particularly long. Where did she go?
> 
> It seems the ladies try really hard at getting the man, but at some point stop trying to keep the man. And for those that know our history, during periods of separation she had no trouble reverting back to the younger version in order to get "another man" or 2, so she knows how to do it.


You make that sound like a *bad* thing? :scratchhead::rofl:


----------



## MrsHolland

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



DTO said:


> I know cesspool is not a bad word. And I know that aging is not flattering to either gender.
> 
> I interpreted that comment to mean that the sea of available guys (balding, out of shape, etc.) is a cesspool. And, as a recent member of that group (I've only been exclusively with my GF for five months), I find that somewhat offensive, as well as untrue. (It's more accurate to say that quality available guys are out there, but possibly under the radar - but that's a different topic.)
> 
> Let's suppose I were to make a blanket statement like "the single women out there suck - they are always tired, always broke, and just want a guy to smooth out their lives" I would be rebuked for saying something insulting that clearly does not apply to all (or even a majority) of the dating pool.


A PP in this thread made the statement that men age better than women. I pointing out that this is not true. Some men age better than women, some women age better than men, some men age better than other men, some women age better than other women.
So it is OK for him to have made an unfounded blanket statement about women but you find it offensive that I can make a statement based on my personal experience of dating in my 40's that many of the men that were out there OLD have aged badly and not at all reflective of the fallacy that "men age better than women".

From the POV of a 40's woman that got back out into the dating scene post divorce I was quite surprised by the number of men that had let themselves go. Plenty of women do too but I was not lookng to date women so I am stating fact as I experienced it.

Why is this offensive?


----------



## Blondilocks

Oh, @MrsHolland, it's my personal observation that on this board, men can say whatever they want; but, women have to toe the line and be a. politically correct and b. make sure that under no circumstance a statement can be misconstrued as demeaning.


----------



## anonmd

MattMatt said:


> You make that sound like a *bad* thing? :scratchhead::rofl:


LOL, as one who is quite partial to the bra-less experienced boob look I found that part a bit odd as well. :scratchhead:

Wifey still claims they droop so much they drag on the floor, what are ya gonna do?:surprise:


----------



## MrsHolland

*Re: Older married men and the wanderinfallacyg eye*



DTO said:


> I know cesspool is not a bad word. And I know that aging is not flattering to either gender.
> 
> I interpreted that comment to mean that the sea of available guys (balding, out of shape, etc.) is a cesspool. And, as a recent member of that group (I've only been exclusively with my GF for five months), I find that somewhat offensive, as well as untrue. (It's more accurate to say that quality available guys are out there, but possibly under the radar - but that's a different topic.)
> 
> *Let's suppose I were to make a blanket statement like "the single women out there suck - they are always tired, always broke, and just want a guy to smooth out their lives" I would be rebuked for saying something insulting that clearly does not apply to all (or even a majority) of the dating pool*.


Oh and I did not make a blanket statement. Perhaps you should go back and read what I *actually *said. You missed the words "there are plenty of gorgeous middle aged men out there".


----------



## MattMatt

anonmd said:


> LOL, as one who is quite partial to the bra-less experienced boob look I found that part a bit odd as well. :scratchhead:
> 
> Wifey still claims they droop so much they drag on the floor, what are ya gonna do?:surprise:


I accidentally spoke out loud at work one day. A female colleague at my last employer, in her 40s was bemoaning the fact that her breasts sagged so much that they dragged on the carpet. I heard myself saying: "lucky carpet!"

She looked at me quickly, giggled and walked away to her desk, shaking her head.

My face was like a furnace!


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

If any of you boys have ever worn a snug fitting bra on a hot day you would know the joy of ripping it off and throwing it on the floor when you get home. 

If you want your wives to be all dolled up and done up then take them out somewhere nice. 

Home is where I can be without my bra and makeup, scratch out my hair, put on my comfy pants and relax.


----------



## MAJDEATH

MrsHolland said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the OPs concerns also apply to hot young women on screen? Is he supposed to look away at the movies or the tele?
> 
> 
> 
> This question makes no sense in regard to the OP. You can't interact with people on TV, can't catch their eye or get their attention.
Click to expand...

So he made a friend at a restaurant or some place and talks to her when he goes there with his W. I don't see the problem.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Sometimes in life (and it is rare), you meet a person that compliments you to a tee. The ying to your yang. Like 2 synchronized gears spinning perfectly, within a mm of touching but never do. This person could be the same sex or opposite sex. You could become great friends or something else, depending on your station in life, bondaries, and/or circumstances. This may only happen a couple of times in your life. Some people call this your soul mate, brother by another mother, etc. Maybe you shared a past life together.

They may be your spouse, or maybe not. Perhaps the H in the original post met one of these people, and simple wants to spend time with them. He brings his W because he thinks she could be great friends with the lady as well. But the W is jealous because she doesn't understand.


----------



## Blondilocks

MAJDEATH said:


> Sometimes in life (and it is rare), you meet a person that compliments you to a tee. The ying to your yang. Like 2 synchronized gears spinning perfectly, within a mm of touching but never do. This person could be the same sex or opposite sex. You could become great friends or something else, depending on your station in life, bondaries, and/or circumstances. This may only happen a couple of times in your life. Some people call this your soul mate, brother by another mother, etc. Maybe you shared a past life together.
> 
> They may be your spouse, or maybe not. Perhaps the H in the original post met one of these people, and simple wants to spend time with them. He brings his W because he thinks she could be great friends with the lady as well. But the W is jealous because she doesn't understand.


I'm betting the husband in the original post simply wants a foot rub from the ying to his yang. Perfectly innocent, harmless and good clean fun. Heck, I think the wife in the original post was remiss in not providing the lotion and pillows and champagne.


----------



## MAJDEATH

And the differences being the location (home versus a public place) and invitation (spouse invited to one, not to the other). Also a third difference: in one scenario, the spouse opted to go with and is complacent, and in the other no way in hell.


----------



## Pandakiss

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blondilocks

MAJDEATH said:


> And the differences being the location (home versus a public place) and invitation (spouse invited to one, not to the other). Also a third difference: in one scenario, the spouse opted to go with and is complacent, and in the other no way in hell.


Oh, dear! I thought your post was made with tongue-in-cheek. It wasn't?:surprise::surprise::surprise: Well, that certainly gives one cause to pause and ponder.


----------



## MAJDEATH

In the original post, why doesn't the W tell him to knock it off, or she won't be going with him anymore to this event?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Ynot said:


> Perhaps you missed the part about where the objects of his attention are enjoying his attention? Leering implies the looks are unwelcome, but in this case they obviously were not.


*Wrong. *

Nowhere does the definition of 'leer' include the supposition that the object of the leering finds it 'unwelcome.' That's a conclusion YOU drew.



> *Taken from Dictionary.com :
> *
> [leer]
> 
> 
> 
> Examples
> Word Origin
> 
> See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
> verb (used without object)
> 
> 1. to look with a sideways or oblique glance, especially suggestive of lascivious interest or sly and malicious intention
> 
> noun 2. a lascivious or sly look.


Whether or not the bimbos were enjoying Father Time's stares or not is* irrelevant*. What's being discussed is the ass-hat's COMPLETE disrespect towards his wife and the word 'leering' was used to describe his letch-like behavior.


----------



## Ynot

She'sStillGotIt said:


> *Wrong. *
> 
> Nowhere does the definition of 'leer' include the supposition that the object of the leering finds it 'unwelcome.' That's a conclusion YOU drew.
> 
> Whether or not the bimbos were enjoying Father Time's stares or not is* irrelevant*. What's being discussed is the ass-hat's COMPLETE disrespect towards his wife and the word 'leering' was used to describe his letch-like behavior.


NOT wrong:

an *unpleasant, malicious*, or lascivious look

And now the women he was looking at are BIMBOS, the man looking has morphed into FATHER TIME plus he is an ASS-HAT who disrespects his wife (hmm, for all we know she may be a ***** or a NAG or an ICE-PRINCESS etc) with his LETCH-LIKE behavior. Now nobody has defended the guy for his behavior but several people have put forth some reasons as to why he was acting this way. Rather than playing judge, jury and executioner based on a one-sided post by a third party, perhaps you could show a little more empathy and a lot less bias? It never ceases to amaze me how some people rally to the flag with only half the facts but many preconceptions.


----------



## Ynot

MAJDEATH said:


> In the original post, why doesn't the W tell him to knock it off, or she won't be going with him anymore to this event?


Because in that situation the W would not remain faultless in the eyes of those rallying to the cause of wifedom. Far easier crucify the H on the basis of a third party account, no real back ground and all sorts of prejudices. It is a different variant of the "he just didn't listen" story line. No discussion about the failure of the W to communicate effectively (if she actually tried to communicate at all) because it is always incumbant upon the man to understand.


----------



## Blondilocks

Well, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...one really doesn't need to roast it and measure the rendered fat to determine if it is a duck or a chicken.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Do we really have to tell them that staring at another woman is unacceptable? And does anyone really think that a man that disrespectful is going to give a crap if she tells him to stop or not?

As for he just didn't listen... it's more like man thought wife was nagging so he ignored it. If you consider everything your wife says is actually important (we don't speak to hear ourselves talk) then you're good. 

We start by mentioning what it bugging us 
"We haven't gone on a date night in forever"
That doesn't work
Then we get more "naggy" and he just ignores it 
Then we stop asking because there's no point. And he thinks all is good because she stopped making noise about it. 

Listen to your wife, check in often to ask her how things are going, if she needs anything. 

Some people think marriage just goes by itself and they don't have to put in effort until something is wrong. You should be constantly making an effort to meet your spouses needs. Yes, before she even has to ask you to.


----------



## john117

Reciprocity is such a difficult concept for some spouses to grasp. 

I check in as prescribed, do the right thing, make all the right noises, and get a better response from my cat than from her. 

On top of this, the peanut gallery seems to classify all "leering" as the same, while I would endeavor to say that there's a whole taxonomy of "leering", some acceptable, some even enjoyable (by both sides) and a lot not any of those.

While walking on DD2's university yesterday we saw a young lady rocking a pair of hot pants cut about two inches ABOVE the buttocks . She had about the same effect to the crowd of move in kids and parents as Moses parting the Red Sea... 

I'd say Mission Accomplished by all sides


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## She'sStillGotIt

Ynot said:


> NOT wrong:
> 
> an *unpleasant, malicious*, or lascivious look
> 
> And now the women he was looking at are BIMBOS, the man looking has morphed into FATHER TIME plus he is an ASS-HAT who disrespects his wife (hmm, for all we know she may be a ***** or a NAG or an ICE-PRINCESS etc) with his LETCH-LIKE behavior. Now nobody has defended the guy for his behavior but several people have put forth some reasons as to why he was acting this way. Rather than playing judge, jury and executioner based on a one-sided post by a third party, perhaps you could show a little more empathy and a lot less bias? It never ceases to amaze me how some people rally to the flag with only half the facts but many preconceptions.


You're STILL wrong.

Nowhere in that definition does it say UNWELCOME. That was _*your*_ argument - that leering is 'unwelcome' to the subject being stared at and THAT'S what I had pointed out a couple posts upthread. 

And I have very little 'empathy' for some old mouth-breather making a damned fool of himself with a bunch of youngin's right in front of his wife's face. Whether his wife is an 'ice princess' or 'nag' or *whatever*, that doesn't justify him acting like a damned horny old goat in public, completely disrespecting his wife. 



> Because in that situation the W would not remain faultless in the eyes of those rallying to the cause of wifedom.


Utter nonsense. Whether she gives her husband a ration of **** about it or not has NO effect on my opinion of HIS sophomoric behavior at all. I'm of the opinion that if you have to _scold_ your own supposedly grownup husband for acting like a horny teenager, then perhaps it's time to consider other options.


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## manwithnoname

Blondilocks said:


> Well, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...one really doesn't need to roast it and measure the rendered fat to determine if it is a duck or a chicken.


Just look at whether it has a beak or a bill. 

No need to roast it, unless you are hungry.


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## MAJDEATH

Maybe the younger lady is nice to him and complimentary, and his W is a nagging *****.


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## Taxman

I have always associated a wandering eye in an older male to be a sign of emotional immaturity. To be frank, I have always felt disdain for guys my age (60's) messing about with 30's 40's or younger. Why? I think it goes back to an earlier business I owned with a partner. We hired one of his previous colleagues in sales. The fellow was in his 60's, looked and dressed the part of an affluent older man. Came to find out that he was continually broke. He was paying an immense amount in alimony. As it turned out, he was married to his former mistress, a woman in her late 30's. He had a child by his mistress and left his first wife. The first wife had been with him throughout a successful career in sales, gave him two children, and then in her late fifties, found out that not only was he having an affair, he fathered a child. I found the entire sordid thing off-putting. I looked for the earliest opportunity to send him on his way


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## aine

Ynot said:


> Perhaps you missed the part about where the objects of his attention are enjoying his attention? Leering implies the looks are unwelcome, but in this case they obviously were not.


Ynot I do not know where you come from, I am from the UK and in my book when dirty old men size up women young enough to be their daughter it is 

leering
lecherous
lascivious

and downright despicable and disrespectful when he is with his wife and even her friend notices it.
Some young women feel sorry for old men and just because they smile it means nothing.

Now get off your high horse will ye!


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## john117

Emotional immaturity? Epic LOLZ. OMG I should so Instagram that


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## MrsHolland

Some of you guys seem to be justifying the behavior in the OP either for the hell of it or perhaps bc it is how you behave. Re read the OP, the husbands behavior is disrespectful and can only serve to destroy his marriage, there is no justification for his behavior if he loves and respects his wife. 

Behavior that hurts a partner is poor form, no matter what that behavior is or which partner is doing it. Any man with even a small iota of EQ would know that the actions as described in the OP are marriage destroying, not marriage building. 

Personally I have no issue with mild flirting but this is not what is being described here, it is behavior directed at a particular woman that has happened multiple times. If anyone of you guys thinks this is marriage building then it is easy to see why your own marriages are in the toilet. Not saying you do these things but your attitudes about it no doubt bleed into the attitudes you have in your own lives.

A quality person does not behave this way or defend behavior that hurts a partner, gender non specific.


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## john117

Who said anything about marriage building?


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## MrsHolland

john117 said:


> Who said anything about marriage building?


I did. The behavior described is marriage destroying. People can either strengthen or destroy their marriages. It isn't rocket science.


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## Ynot

aine said:


> Ynot I do not know where you come from, I am from the UK and in my book when dirty old men size up women young enough to be their daughter it is
> 
> leering
> lecherous
> lascivious
> 
> and downright despicable and disrespectful when he is with his wife and even her friend notices it.
> Some young women feel sorry for old men and just because they smile it means nothing.
> 
> Now get off your high horse will ye!


So now the girl is young enough to be his daughter? Wow. some of you ladies need to stop and ask a few questions before automatically siding with the W. Not one of you have even remotely suggested that this women actually talk to her husband instead of enlisting the aid of a relatively unknown acquaintance to validate her concerns. Talk about high horses! You go girl is all some of you can even think.


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## john117

MrsHolland said:


> I did. The behavior described is marriage destroying. People can either strengthen or destroy their marriages. It isn't rocket science.


Bad cooking, watching Lifetime Movie Network, the White Sox, and many other things are marriage destroying too.

People are who they are. Hard as it may seem to believe, people don't put on blinders right after the "I do" part.


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## MrsHolland

john117 said:


> Bad cooking, watching Lifetime Movie Network, the White Sox, and many other things are marriage destroying too.
> 
> People are who they are. Hard as it may seem to believe, people don't put on blinders right after the "I do" part.


I never said anything on blinkers in fact I have said here (and other posts) that mild flirting, looking at others etc is all fine and normal. If you cannot see the behavior in the OP is disrespectful then there is no point in having a discussion.

If MrH behaved like the man in he OP I would find it disrespectful and view him as an idiot. I don't respect or want sex with idiots. 

Those that think disrespecting their partner (male or female) is going to contribute to a healthy marriage are incorrect.


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## john117

And the difference between mild flirting vs leering is... 

(Puts Aqualung by Jethro Tull on the record player)

I set the line at "not being noticed by the subject and most passers by". Which is what I do when I do art photography in the streets of Chicago. But something tells me the behavior mechanics aren't the issue, it's the whole idea that "he's looking" that's the issue.


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## Vinnydee

I did the right thing. I moved to a retirement community where there is no one to look at. As my wife's surgeon said, she is one of the few women here who can still pull off a bikini. Many of the women and guys who are younger than us, look older. In the last 7 years I have not seen anyone worth looking at. However it is not disrespectful in our marriage since my wife is bisexual and is the one that usually spots hot women before I do.


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## EleGirl

One thing we have learned on this thread is that looking at others and openly flirting in front of your spouse is acceptable.

And that if you do it, it's your spouse's fault.

So lady's, this means that all you married ladies can flirt with all the men you want to, right there in front of your husband. And if you do that, I'm sure that the crowd that support this guy's actions will be just as supportive of you doing the exact same thing.

(Yes there were some men on this thread of do understand that the man's actions are not appropriate.  )


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## LaReine

People, calm down.
How we feel about it is irrelevant. Whether it is leering or not is also irrelevant.

A spouse is making their spouse uncomfortable, end of. 

A conversation needs to be had. Why does the wife keep going back to that "event" (which tbh makes it sound like something sleazy) if she knows he will behave this way? 

Stop going. Tell him why. If he won't stop going, ask him why.

Does he think he "has a shot"? Would he take it? So why bother?

Also irrelevant but it is bugging me, why on earth would you take a new friend to witness this behaviour?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

LaReine said:


> People, calm down.
> How we feel about it is irrelevant.


Welcome to TAM where anything can lead to long threads with folks arguing till the cows come home.....>



LaReine said:


> Whether it is leering or not is also irrelevant.
> 
> A spouse is making their spouse uncomfortable, end of.
> 
> A conversation needs to be had.


You are right. The bottom line is that what he's doing bothers his wife. The two of them need to discuss it and he needs to stop it.



LaReine said:


> Why does the wife keep going back to that "event" (which tbh makes it sound like something sleazy) if she knows he will behave this way?
> 
> Stop going. Tell him why. If he won't stop going, ask him why.


I disagree that it sounds sleazy because the wife is going to the event even though the husband acts like this. It's something that the wife enjoys. She should be able to do things that she enjoys without her husband acting that way.



LaReine said:


> Does he think he "has a shot"? Would he take it? So why bother?


Do you mean why does he bother? Probably because he dreams that he has a chance.



LaReine said:


> Also irrelevant but it is bugging me, why on earth would you take a new friend to witness this behaviour?


It sounds to me like the wife is insecure and unsure of herself. Maybe she has brought it up to him and he has told her that she's making too much out of nothing. Unfortunately the OP is not posting on this thread anymore so we don't know.

It's not unusual for a woman to ask a friend for reassurance of something like this.


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## Taxman

Maybe I am weird, but I find leering at some sweet young thing to be, I dunno, gross. Not the female, mind you, but the guy doing the leering. Come on, men...get this through your head: First, a sweet young thing is not looking for an old rooster. Unless the old rooster has something extra going for him (Film star, billionaire, etc), a young woman in her prime is probably not going to be attracted. Second, (I have asked this before and have never gotten a satisfactory answer) what the hell do you talk about afterward? There is no common frame of reference, and dissimilar history. Thirdly, from my perspective, I was in a relationship with a woman 12 years older than myself, before I met my wife. Yes, the sex was mind-blowing. Yes, she taught me a lot about pleasuring a woman. Yes, we had a lot of sex. However, there was little talking, and no socializing, we were on two different plains of existence at the time, me being a full time student, and working weekends and nights, her being a career woman, working a 9-5 job, and outside of the sex, there was really very little holding us together. When I met my wife, the older lady and I drifted apart. I remember it fondly, but had no illusions that it could have led anywhere. I'd guess that these days you would call it a FWB arrangement, but I did not really consider her a friend either. I am told that, esp in SIL's case, there is a lot of interest in her getting with a younger guy. This has been a kick recently, and she has been dragging her friends out to one or two cougar bars. (Bamboozled the wife into going, I was NOT impressed, and SIL discovered she should not poke the bear)


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## Blondilocks

I'm guessing that some of the men on this thread are being disingenuous (at least I hope they are). A male poster on this board posts regularly about his wife's ogling of other men and how it affects him. For those men who are as serious as a heart attack about this subject - old dogs can learn new tricks.


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## Suspect

OP here. She did speak to her husband and was told she was crazy that he was not doing anything, she was just trying to start a fight he didn't even notice this person. Do as someone posted earlier it is talking to someone who sees nothing wrong other than his wife bringing it up. Him deflecting things back on her has started her to thinking maybe she is crazy. From what I understand there have always been him glancing up until the past few months and he has started staring at women everywhere. Watching a female walk across the parking lot before he can move. That isn't a glance. It is described as females that are 25 to 15 years younger than him. 

The person he was staring at is young enough to be his daughter. As far as her liking the attention I think this is someone that has a need for attention no matter who it is from. This event is one that their adult child participates in. The child is doing his own thing and not right there in the thick of his dad's behavior.


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## MattMatt

EleGirl said:


> One thing we have learned on this thread is that looking at others and openly flirting in front of your spouse is acceptable.
> 
> And that if you do it, it's your spouse's fault.
> 
> So lady's, this means that all you married ladies can flirt with all the men you want to, right there in front of your husband. And if you do that, I'm sure that the crowd that support this guy's actions will be just as supportive of you doing the exact same thing.
> 
> (Yes there were some men on this thread of do understand that the man's actions are not appropriate.  )


Ha! You just described my wife! She is a real flirt! :rofl: 

I flirt but in humorous ways.

For example, I said to a male friend of ours: "So, when you fist got together with your wife, you must have done some jail time?"

He looked at me, puzzled and said: "What makes you say that?"

"Well, your wife is obviously so much younger than you, I just thought..."

His wife giggled, he let out a guffaw of laughter and said: "You're good!"

His wife looked at my wife and said: "Matt's very smooth, isn't he?"

My wife shook her head and said: "I'd have said greasy, rather than smooth!"


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## LaReine

EleGirl said:


> Welcome to TAM where anything can lead to long threads with folks arguing till the cows come home.....>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right. The bottom line is that what he's doing bothers his wife. The two of them need to discuss it and he needs to stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree that it sounds sleazy because the wife is going to the event even though the husband acts like this. It's something that the wife enjoys. She should be able to do things that she enjoys without her husband acting that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean why does he bother? Probably because he dreams that he has a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds to me like the wife is insecure and unsure of herself. Maybe she has brought it up to him and he has told her that she's making too much out of nothing. Unfortunately the OP is not posting on this thread anymore so we don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not unusual for a woman to ask a friend for reassurance of something like this.




Sorry I meant that calling it an event makes it sound sleazy, not that the wife is going. It makes it sound like somewhere that be go to leer or be leered at.

(After reading the ops follow up I see his is not the case but the original just said event)

Why bother as in- if she feels he would take the shot (if offered) why bother being there or with him at all. If he wouldn't take it, why be so... obvious.

No not unusual. But she mentioned it was a new friend. That is unusual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustyDog

Suspect said:


> I have gotten a new friend and she has been married for 20 something years. She has been noticing her husband noticing every female that is several years younger than him and her. She feels neglected and hurt.
> 
> Recently she invited me to an event the two of them frequent that he enjoys and mentioned how he always has to sit in a specific area and how he watches for this female. She asked if I would see if she was out of her mind at her observation. Well she was correct, and this person also noticed that she has his attention and plays into him staring at her. I know this is hurtful to her. I have told her to follow her gut instinct. I don't know her well enough to know if I could say you are correct he is more interested in her paying her attention than acknowledging that his wife is even present.
> 
> I have wondered if this is something all couples in their late 40s and 50s go through that it is the midlife crisis that he is having or just disrespectful. He noticed other younger females and didn't keep it from being obvious to the women he is finding attractive and interesting to him. I see these immature females enjoying the attention of his constant looks, stares, and smiles.
> 
> I want to pull him aside and tell him I see his behavior and he is being disrespectful to is wife and how would he feel to think some old goat was doing what he is to his daughter. Again I do not know him at all and her It is a new friendship.
> 
> I just hate to see anyone being disrespected.


It's sad that men are stereotype as being "all about appearances". If you think that's true, then watch the next time a friend brings their newborn over - is it the men or the women who are figuring out whose nose and eyes the baby has?

No, the man's wandering eye, according to a number of relationship authors of both genders, is because the wife's behavior today is nothing like it was when they were younger - her enthusiasm for coupling, for holding hands, for being romantic, has faded. The 40/50 something husband is not lusting after the youthful body...he is lusting after the youthful heart. Hell, I didn't get married until 40, and my wife was older - and like the stereotypical 20-somthing wife, her interest in couplehood waned after a few years. It's as if society teaches women "behave this way to get a guy and once you're married, you can slack off."


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## TheCuriousWife

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If any of you boys have ever worn a snug fitting bra on a hot day you would know the joy of ripping it off and throwing it on the floor when you get home.
> 
> If you want your wives to be all dolled up and done up then take them out somewhere nice.
> 
> Home is where I can be without my bra and makeup, scratch out my hair, put on my comfy pants and relax.


Right! Men want their women all dolled up 24/7 when they are at home? Like my husband never wears holey t-shirts, flops down on the couch and scratches himself while I'm home...  

He sure isn't wearing a suit when he is home relaxing on the weekends. lol.

I'm all for keeping yourself looking nice for your spouse, but everyone should also have "slob time."


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## MAJDEATH

Personally, I don't think it matters who he talks to or looks at when the married couple goes out. It's who he brings home to share his life, house and bed that really matters.

Wish my fWW would have figured that out sooner. She was all concerned about who I talked to and danced with when apart from her, not knowing that she was bringing guys back to our home to play house.


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