# PTSD-like symptoms



## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

I have seen a few counsellors over the years and more than one of them has advised me that I have all the symptoms of PTSD from being betrayed. One even gave me a book about PTSD from infidelity. 

But more recently I was at my family doctor and, in a conversation about reducing stress, I mentioned that I'd like a one-time referral because I had a few more questions about how to address specific PTSD issues that I am not making any progress with. The doctor seemed both surprised and skeptical that I could possibly have PTSD from infidelity. 

It was kind of embarrassing, and yet I myself have questioned the concept too. But I've read some of you here speak of the mental anguish of being betrayed as comparable to PTSD, so I want to ask: is there a way to get help for these symptoms without looking like a loser. Someone who can't handle real life. And someone who dares to compare their individual life drama with that of someone whose symptoms came from a much bigger picture? I feel that mentioning PTSD makes people think I'm imagining things. But the symptoms fit, hypervigilance, anxiety, nightmares, trust issues, nervousness. So do you admit it and get mocked for being weak, or just shut up and get nowhere till you die? What did YOU do? 

How do you get help if nobody believes you have anything wrong?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Daisy Etta said:


> I have seen a few counsellors over the years and more than one of them has advised me that I have all the symptoms of PTSD from being betrayed. One even gave me a book about PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> But more recently I was at my family doctor and, in a conversation about reducing stress, I mentioned that I'd like a one-time referral because I had a few more questions about how to address specific PTSD issues that I am not making any progress with. The doctor seemed both surprised and skeptical that I could possibly have PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> ...



Hi Daisy,

Much of what you describe I would call normal. I dont know that I would call it PTSD but I know I have a few triggers that can big time affect me. Can you give us a few more specific examples of what you are dealing with.

In my opinion unless you totally saw an afffair coming then its very normal to be hypervigilent, nerous to trust, skeptical and so on. I am 4 year out of D day and still feel may of these


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Daisy Etta said:


> I have seen a few counsellors over the years and more than one of them has advised me that I have all the symptoms of PTSD from being betrayed. One even gave me a book about PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> But more recently I was at my family doctor and, in a conversation about reducing stress, I mentioned that I'd like a one-time referral because I had a few more questions about how to address specific PTSD issues that I am not making any progress with. The doctor seemed both surprised and skeptical that I could possibly have PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> ...


 Keep looking. Most "Professionals" do not see infidelity as a warranted source of PTSD since it is devoid of the standard or typical aspects normally related to this. But you know you better than anyone so search far and wide until you get the results you are looking for. If you give it a chance TAM can aide in be a medium to talk among while keeping a degree of anonymity and is free in cost.


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## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Hi Daisy,
> Can you give us a few more specific examples of what you are dealing with.


Can't sleep. Nightmares. Imagining everyday situations are something they are not, and accordingly reacting inappropriately. Always on the lookout for danger. I mean always, like every time I step out the door I expect to see AP. Extremely short tempered. Emotional responses not justified by the environment. I don't care if the MD wants to call it PTSD or not, but I'd like to be acknowledged for the symptoms and tone them down. This is killing me. And it's not recent.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> Keep looking. *Most "Professionals" do not see infidelity as a warranted source of PTSD* since it is devoid of the standard or typical aspects normally related to this. But you know you better than anyone so search far and wide until you get the results you are looking for. If you give it a chance TAM can aide in be a medium to talk among while keeping a degree of anonymity and is free in cost.


The tide is changing.

Transcending Post-infidelity Stress Disorder (PISD): The Six Stages of Healing: Dennis C. Ortman: 9781587613340: Amazon.com: Books

Infidelity and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder | AFFAIRCARE


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I had issues after a _very_ traumatic experience in childbirth that seemed to closely fit a diagnosis of PTSD. Some reading validated that such a diagnosis is not unheard of after traumatic childbirth, just as it's not unheard of after other traumatic events. But, like you, I quickly found that people tend to think you're a nutjob, projecting, looking for pills, etc. if you actually say PTSD without being a combat vet.

So, I suggest just describing your symptoms without using the PTSD terminology. Tell your doctor that you're having a lot of anxiety, sleep disturbances, nightmares, rapid pulse, whatever. Tell him it's an ongoing problem that doesn't seem to be getting better. Don't say PTSD, just ask for the referral you want. When you get referred, again, just describe symptoms without offering your own thoughts about a possible diagnosis.


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## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

Rowan said:


> So, I suggest just describing your symptoms without using the PTSD terminology. Don't say PTSD, just describe symptoms without offering your own thoughts about a possible diagnosis.


That's what I've always done so far. And some of the counsellors I've seen very quickly told ME that this was a form of PTSD and should be treated like that. But now I've moved, I got this new MD and he kind of looks at me like, "you can't be having all those symptoms unless you have PTSD, and you can't have PTSD from infidelity". So I must be lying, or imagining it, or something? Loser (me). 

I find it is near impossible to dare ask for help and admit to feeling this way. I've tried toughing it out but like I said it's killing me and I could use your advices on what's the next step.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Daisy Etta said:


> That's what I've always done so far. And some of the counsellors I've seen very quickly told ME that this was a form of PTSD and should be treated like that. But now I've moved, I got this new MD and he kind of looks at me like, "you can't be having all those symptoms unless you have PTSD, and you can't have PTSD from infidelity". So I must be lying, or imagining it, or something? Loser (me).
> 
> I find it is near impossible to dare ask for help and admit to feeling this way. I've tried toughing it out but like I said it's killing me and I could use your advices on what's the next step.


The next step is likely to find another MD. If your current one doesn't believe you, and won't give you the referral you need, then try another doctor. This is a situation in which you will have to strongly advocate for yourself.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I am having all the same symptoms. I didn't know anything about PTSD I read the link GusPolinksi put on here & it describes me completely. I thought I was crazy, But now I wander could this be what's wrong with me too.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I had issues after a _very_ traumatic experience in childbirth that seemed to closely fit a diagnosis of PTSD. Some reading validated that such a diagnosis is not unheard of after traumatic childbirth, just as it's not unheard of after other traumatic events. But, like you, *I quickly found that people tend to think you're a nutjob, projecting, looking for pills, etc. if you actually say PTSD without being a combat vet.*
> 
> So, I suggest just describing your symptoms without using the PTSD terminology. Tell your doctor that you're having a lot of anxiety, sleep disturbances, nightmares, rapid pulse, whatever. Tell him it's an ongoing problem that doesn't seem to be getting better. Don't say PTSD, just ask for the referral you want. When you get referred, again, just describe symptoms without offering your own thoughts about a possible diagnosis.


It's worth pointing out that more than a few battle-hardened vets have stated that their own experiences w/ infidelity have wounded and scarred them far worse than their experiences in war did or ever could.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

PTSD is an outcome, a description of actual symptoms. How it comes to be isn't entirely relevant. So if you have it, you have it. Children can have it, adults, old people, anyone anytime. For pretty much as many reasons as there are individual personalities.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

The problem lies within how you describe it to your doctor. They are trained classically so they are still in old think about PTSD.
I.E. Only classic western trauma can be valid. They also frequently look down their noses at patients who attempt to self-diagnose. 
The solution is one of two things:
1.	Get a new doctor. Seriously. You asked for a referral and he won’t give it? That’s just wrong.
2.	Give him the symptoms list and let him come to his own conclusions.

If your doctor made you feel this way then he leaves a lot to be desired and I would get a new one.

But the big question is…did you get the referral?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Daisy Etta said:


> Can't sleep. Nightmares. Imagining everyday situations are something they are not, and accordingly reacting inappropriately. Always on the lookout for danger. I mean always, like every time I step out the door I expect to see AP. Extremely short tempered. Emotional responses not justified by the environment. I don't care if the MD wants to call it PTSD or not, but I'd like to be acknowledged for the symptoms and tone them down. This is killing me. And it's not recent.


Well this is all very real to you and who is to say otherwise. I know I had a bevy of issues in dealing with my x wives affair and I neeeded counseling and I work in a profession that anything of the sort is heavily frowned upon. Sometimes our problems are bigger than ourselves and for those times we need help. If this dr isn't part of the solution please find one that is and keep pushing till you get the help you need.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> It's worth pointing out that more than a few battle-hardened vets have stated that their own experiences w/ infidelity have wounded and scarred them far worse than their experiences in war did or ever could.


I believe this completely. I've never been in the military, but during my police career went thru many stressful things: was shot at, attacked, injuries, fights, and had co-workers killed. It made me slightly reclusive, nervous in crowds at times, but no serious effects.
I actually took a skeptical view of PTSD at times. For me, getting out of the situation safe and sound "fixed" everything.

I'm over a year out on the infidelity thing, and in some ways worse off. Way worse than work stress. It never abates. I must admit the PTSD thing is real. I think it takes many forms. For me, anger; for others: fear, despair....

I particularly like SamuraiJack's idea of giving the doctor a detail list of your symptoms and thought, and letting the idea dawn on them. We all embrace something better if we think of it first.


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## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

Good links, Gus Polinski. The book you mention is one that a previous counsellor recommended to me, actually. 

No referral yet, Samurai Jack. (I imagine the specialist: "I got me an office, gold records on the wall/Just leave a message, maybe I'll call". Appropriately, the next line is "Lucky I'm sane after all I've been through" Ironic, huh?)

I'm not going to keep asking him, or go on a big hunt for a new MD. It was hard enough to bring this up once, I can't see myself giving it another go any time soon. Way too humiliating. Seems like there's nothing but to keep trying to tough it out I guess. It's exhausting. Thanks, see you around, guys.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> It's worth pointing out that more than a few battle-hardened vets have stated that their own experiences w/ infidelity have wounded and scarred them far worse than their experiences in war did or ever could.


I heard and read the same with women that had been raped. Their husbands cheating was more painful. Their rapists were strangers but their husbands were the people they loved and trusted above all others in the world.


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## shalom_82 (Nov 23, 2014)

Daisy Etta said:


> Good links, Gus Polinski. The book you mention is one that a previous counsellor recommended to me, actually.
> 
> No referral yet, Samurai Jack. (I imagine the specialist: "I got me an office, gold records on the wall/Just leave a message, maybe I'll call". Appropriately, the next line is "Lucky I'm sane after all I've been through" Ironic, huh?)
> 
> I'm not going to keep asking him, or go on a big hunt for a new MD. It was hard enough to bring this up once, I can't see myself giving it another go any time soon. Way too humiliating. Seems like there's nothing but to keep trying to tough it out I guess. It's exhausting. Thanks, see you around, guys.


First off, I know that this may not be an option for you, but... Have you tried calling your insurance company and asking if you could have a referral for mental health visits and ask them for a list of approved doctors? 

That is how I found my last psychologist. I didn't need to go through my primary care physician and I was able to look around for the right person for me. 

Second, when I read in your post (above) that you were walking away from this conversation, my initial, gut reaction was "No! Don't leave!" (I hope you will read this.)

I think what I'm getting at is that this site is a place for counseling. You can come here anytime and there a lots of folks on here ready to respond with support and the like.

So maybe you reached out here for exactly what you are looking for? 

Third, I can relate to feeling humiliated when you try to trust someone (like your doctor) and you get a harsh judgment in response. I wouldn't be surprised if this experience triggered you (your PTSD that is). So please keep in mind that what you experienced in the doctor's office is likely "colored" by your PTSD. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I hope it helps you be open to your doctor in future visits as you say that you are going to keep him.

Good luck with everything!


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

One of the best publications for PTSD (IMO) is "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel Van Der Kolk. It is a book now as well, but it was originally published in a Harvard Medical Journal in the mid 90's. You can find it online as a free download...

There are different types of trauma one can experience that can cause PTSD - They are often referred to as "Big T" and "Little T" traumas... A big T would be something like a life threatening event, a little T takes more of an emotionally traumatic perspective. 

Most people hear PTSD and think of military veterans... but the experience of trauma occurs in various ways, and people react differently to the event based on their inherent coping skills. 

Me... I struggle most with hypervigilence, trust, and emotional regulation... and I've had both Big T & Little T traumas in my life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> It's worth pointing out that more than a few battle-hardened vets have stated that their own experiences w/ infidelity have wounded and scarred them far worse than their experiences in war did or ever could.


So sad but so fvcking true!! God bless you vets!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Daisy Etta said:


> I have seen a few counsellors over the years and more than one of them has advised me that I have all the symptoms of PTSD from being betrayed. One even gave me a book about PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> But more recently I was at my family doctor and, in a conversation about reducing stress, I mentioned that I'd like a one-time referral because I had a few more questions about how to address specific PTSD issues that I am not making any progress with. The doctor seemed both surprised and skeptical that I could possibly have PTSD from infidelity.
> 
> ...


Well, first thing, you change doctors.

It's only partially your doctor's fault. They only do a small amount of training in psychiatry and probably even less in psychology.

We wouldn't expect family doctors to diagnose and treat extremely serious medical conditions, so who do we expect them to be able to treat potentially serious conditions like PTSD? :scratchhead:


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## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

Thanks Shalom82. However I can't face saying any more about this to another "professional" right now. I was shut down again, and I'll stay that way till I can't.

I will look for the publication Pepper123 mentioned. I feel that those who separate "Big T" and "Little T" are part of my problems: "oh, you ONLY were betrayed, that's not hard to handle compared to (big T)". 

Think about it. Being betrayed did threaten my life. I had a plan for my life, I thought things were progressing wonderfully, I thought I knew what was laid out in front of me. Suddenly from left field this comes at me and my life as I know it is OVER just like that, and I have no control over it. No more happily ever after, no more perfect old couple holding hands in the park, no more certainty of comfort and security. What is there instead? I can't know. 

Even worse than the way betrayal ended my future is the way it ended my past. All the things I thought I knew, thought I could count on about the history of my marriage (and by extension, my life) are GONE. It was wrong. It was a lie. It wasn't like that: I didn't even know my own life.

If a "Big T" is a life-threatening event, then one which ends both past and future life ought to fall into that category. But then, nobody asked me so that's probably why "professionals" say I'm wrong.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here is a link to the article that I referenced:

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/home...t, Trauma,Mem/Body keeps the score. Kolk .pdf

Also, I am going to have to disagree with you on your life was threatened, as the reference made was your physical life, not the one that you had envisioned. Looking into someone's eyes as they literally squeeze the breath out of you until you pass out; telling you that "they are going to put you in the dirt," is not the same thing as the pain associated with losing a life you thought you WOULD have, but hasn't even happened yet. I am not saying it isn't painful, traumatic, something to grieve for, etc. All of the things that you mentioned can still happen for you - you are not dead. There is no such thing as a perfect couple either. 

If you look at these boards, everyone has problems, it is how they are dealt with that makes the big difference. I bet if you saw EI and B1 in the park holding hands you'd think they were the perfect couple, and yet look at what they went through to get where they are. Your life isn't over. It was not the yellow brick road that you imagine, but it is not one way to hell either. Unless you want it to be. You are right too, you had no control over what happened to you. But you have ALL of the control when it comes to how you deal and react to it. 

Nobody, most of all me is not saying that you can't have PTSD from betrayal. But as with other medical issues, doctors look for a way to differentiate one thing from the other - sometimes with different, sill names. No one said that a little T cannot be MORE traumatic than a Big T - it has to do with the person, how they handle it, and perspective. 

Here is a really amazing book you should read that talks just about the strength to overcome tragedy in your life, and go on to be something great. The guy that cured cancer is in there... his dad committed suicide, and his childhood only got worse after that. 

http://www.amazon.com/David-Goliath-Underdogs-Misfits-Battling/dp/0316204366

I've been cheated on, physically and emotionally abused, substance abuse... most of which I will attribute to having been raised by an emotionally neglectful, narcissistic mother. I've also had the strength to walk away from my abusive marriage, quit my dependency cold turkey, started running to help strengthen myself, and ended up competing in the most prestigious marathon in the world. I have a great job in management, with a company that allows me lots of flexibility and a high level of authority. Every Christmas when I take the ornaments out, I get upset that my ex abused me. Upset that I will not spend all holidays with our child. But that's my life. I can't change that. I can work on me, find the reasons that I allowed it for so long, and move forward. 

Your life is not over, and nobody tried to kill you. So, yeah.... you have little t trauma. The future that you are mourning may be impossible with the person you had wanted it to be with, but that just means there is room for something better now. 

Let go of the picket fence and rebuild it - even though it looked nice and strong from the kitchen window, all it took was one kick for the entire thing to fall over.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

The book, "Your Sexually Addicted Spouse" heavily abides in trauma theory involving infidelity...a makes a good case for it. I didn't develop PTSD, which I'd say would be a chronic development, but I did develop high levels of anxiety, hypervigilance...just general safety-seeking behavior which took time to lessen. 

Infidelity is trauma...when you believe your life is one way...and then you are hammered with the realization that it is not only a lie, but now everything you have invested into the marriage has been ripped from you and your life is forever altered. This is traumatic. Not only that, but trickle-truth behavior and/or repetition of the affair creates extra trauma. I was a wreck after first discovery, but afterward, any new disclosures or discoveries...my hands would be shaking.

That doctor can stuff it. I think most the time, they behave this way because they aren't the ones to think of it first and are apt to not want to jump to conclusions. At the same time, PTSD is a very specific diagnosis involving how we respond to trauma factoring the intensity or duration of the traumatic event(s) as well as the duration of symptoms following the trauma and how it erodes at one's ability to function normally. There is also acute stress disorder but it's classification gives it a 4 week duration only.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

OP find a therapist that practices EMDR therapy... it is the most effective model for reprocessing trauma, and although it sounds crazy now... it'll help you get to a place of acceptance.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Pepper123 said:


> OP find a therapist that practices EMDR therapy... it is the most effective model for reprocessing trauma, and although it sounds crazy now... it'll help you get to a place of acceptance.


*Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)*


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## Daisy Etta (Aug 13, 2014)

Pepper123 said:


> Your life is not over, and nobody tried to kill you. So, yeah.... you have little t trauma. The future that you are mourning may be impossible with the person you had wanted it to be with, but that just means there is room for something better now.
> 
> Let go of the picket fence and rebuild it - even though it looked nice and strong from the kitchen window, all it took was one kick for the entire thing to fall over.


Actually, well, only half of that first sentence is true. But never mind. I will try to let go. 
Thanks everyone for your input. Best wishes to you all.


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## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

Where do I begin. It angers me (not at you  ) that professionals in this day and age still hold the adage that you have to label everything, whether or not someone labels you as having PTSD, it still sounds like you have all the symptoms. So why don't they just treat them, regardless if you are suffering due to being in a fox hole, or a really bad relationship. I wish you all the best in your struggles, it is not an easy thing to live with, and it is difficult to find people willing to take on the challenge of being with someone with PTSD. (steps down off soapbox) You are a good person who has as much to offer to the world and to someone special as anyone else in this world. You deserve happiness and I pray that someday you find it.


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