# So My Wife Just Flat Out Lies to Me



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Awesome.

So I was snooping. Found old iPhone backup. Read texts. Found out she had sex with some guy I didn't know about before we met. Asked her. She say's she knew a guy by that name but they never had sex. Sent her a pic where she says "come over and we can hang out, not for sex but whatever happens happens. And you know us." and "I haven't had sex since you." and "this will be our first time sober, if it happens." She say's...I don't know what that is but not it's not from my phone. Sent her a pic where she said "this is (wife's name)." Finally admits it. 

Now of course the issue is my snooping and not that she lies to my face about it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

> she had sex with some guy I didn't know about before we met


In other words, it's none of you business unless you had previously agreed to disclose past lovers. If you had such an agreement, she should not have lied. If you did not, then she has the right to lie (IMO) to protect her privacy, which you violated.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

How old are you and your wife? How long have you been married? Do you have children and how old are they? What events led you to snoop on your wife? Does your wife work? Does she still keep her friends before you got married? These answers may help posters when giving you advice.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Awesome.
> 
> So I was snooping. Found old iPhone backup. Read texts. Found out she had sex with some guy I didn't know about before we met. Asked her. She say's she knew a guy by that name but they never had sex. Sent her a pic where she says "come over and we can hang out, not for sex but whatever happens happens. And you know us." and "I haven't had sex since you." and "this will be our first time sober, if it happens." She say's...I don't know what that is but not it's not from my phone. Sent her a pic where she said "this is (wife's name)." Finally admits it.
> 
> Now of course the issue is my snooping and not that she lies to my face about it.


It's both. Lying to one's significant other is never good. Yet what were you doing snooping? What difference does it make who she had sex with before you were together? My husband doesn't know about all of the partners I had before we were together. Not that I'm hiding anything but he doesn't care. That is ancient history. I wouldn't care about his history either. What is the real problem? Do you just not trust your wife? Is there a valid reason not to trust her?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

If it happened before your relationship, it's none of your business.

What happens prior is completely irrelevant. 

I went thru a similar ordeal when I was younger. Always worried about who she was with and what she did before our relationship.

What a idiot I was.

I also don't recommend asking women these sorts of questions OR women answering them.

The only things that should be disclosed once in a relationship is STD, Porn or nudes.

Rest........leave it where it belongs, in the past.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> In other words, it's none of you business unless you had previously agreed to disclose past lovers. If you had such an agreement, she should not have lied. If you did not, then she has the right to lie (IMO) to protect her privacy, which you violated.


Interesting perspective.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> In other words, it's none of you business unless you had previously agreed to disclose past lovers. If you had such an agreement, she should not have lied. If you did not, then she has the right to lie (IMO) to protect her privacy, which you violated.


She also has a right to lie to protect his manhood/sanity.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Try to think of it this way. Who do you think a wife would be more attracted to? Husband A or Husband B?

Husband A: Snoops around in his wifes' stuff in order to find out who she has slept with, when she slept with them and how it went. He then whines and complains about her not telling him about these encounters before they met. He is upset, depressed and feels unloved, lied to and worries that he may not be as good in bed as any of those "other" dudes.

Husband B: He could give a sh$t who his wife slept with in her past because he is so friggen good in bed his wife literally falls off the bed every time she has an orgasm. In fact, after sex, he jokingly tells his wife while he is picking her up from the floor....."if you can find someone who can F$ck you better than me, go for it."

Be secure in who you are and don't worry about the past, think about the present because it's the only thing you have an iota of control over.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

DoF said:


> She also has a right to lie to protect his manhood/sanity.


That is VERY, VERY interesting. Sad, but true. The sad part is not necessarily the lie, but to have to hide something in order to protect "his " manhood. That's as blue a blue pill as you can find!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I Don't Know said:


> Awesome.
> 
> So I was snooping. Found old iPhone backup. Read texts. Found out she had sex with some guy I didn't know about before we met. Asked her. She say's she knew a guy by that name but they never had sex. Sent her a pic where she says "come over and we can hang out, not for sex but whatever happens happens. And you know us." and "I haven't had sex since you." and "this will be our first time sober, if it happens." She say's...I don't know what that is but not it's not from my phone. Sent her a pic where she said "this is (wife's name)." Finally admits it.
> 
> Now of course the issue is my snooping and not that she lies to my face about it.


Been there, done that, got the bruises to prove it.

I have RJ too, but I've learned to deal with it. The longer I've been with my wife, the longer our pasts are behind us. Just don't go looking for things, or ask things.

That said, I've always thought it pointless to lie about things like that, but hey, lots of people do. Lying is the third of three things one should do when faced with this. 

#1 is to not answer whatever question is being asked, and provide a reason. "That's private", for example. If your partner can't handle that, it's their problem. Hey, THEY asked.

#2 would be to just answer the question. If your partner can't handle the answer, that's their problem. Hey, THEY asked. 

#3 is to lie. What purpose this serves, I don't know.

I'm not even really a big proponent of "little white lies" in a relationship. Dishonest is dishonest is dishonest.

To me, she didn't have a "right" to lie. What she DID have the right to do is not answer, and protect her privacy, as truly, it's none of OP's business. This is generally acceptable adult behavior, to not lie but also not answer questions one feels are intrusive. It's also generally acceptable adult behavior to not go places where one feels (or knows) ones partner does not want them to venture. I learned this the hard way, but I've learned to not give a rats behind about things that genuinely don't matter.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> So I was snooping.
> 
> Now of course the issue is my snooping and not that she lies to my face about it.


She knows you have RJ and is trying to not give you information about her past before you that you will then keep turning over in your head, over and over like a broken record for no reason since it was before you. 

She is trying to minimize the impact of your RJ, because it sucks to be her having to deal with your interrogations all the time. 

What are you doing to minimize your RJ? I don't think snooping is something that will help you do that.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

We did start off discussing past sex in a general sense. No agreement was made but it wasn't off limits.

Things that made me not trust:

1 total partner count went from 8 to 13
2 said her and ex talked about tubal reversal and it didn't go farther...had actually consulted a doctor and planned a date.
3 said I was first guy she loved since her ex. not true.
4 said I was the biggest. not true. (I know it doesn't matter, but still a lie)
5 said she wasn't happy with ex but looked plenty happy in her facebook from that time.

That's a big part of why I feel I need to snoop. 
A consistent history of small things that aren't true. 

Counseling just isn't going to be an option if we want to keep the lights on.


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't think you have a right to lie. I do think you have a right to say that you don't want to discuss it.

That being said, my question would be how does this impact your getting married? Was she supposed to have been chaste? Did you two have some full disclosure agreement? Did she hold out on you while you were dating?

Don't have enough information to know why you think this is a problem.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, apologize to your wife for being immature and even asking the question to begin with.

Trust me on this, I've been in your shoes, I walked with your shoes and I have grew out of your shoes.

By simply asking any of these questions, you are FORCING your wife to lie.

Don't do that to her or yourself. You are playing a never ending game that will cripple your relationship.

All over "things" that happened prior to your relationship and matter NONE.

What's next? You going to ask her about **** sizes? Are you truly prepared for HONESTY from her? 

Stop YOURSELF now!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> We did start off discussing past sex in a general sense. No agreement was made but it wasn't off limits.
> 
> Things that made me not trust:
> 
> ...


How did you find out you were "not the biggest"?
If I had to pick one question to ask my wife that would make me an insecure nincompoop in her eyes and make her not to want have sex with me at the same time, it would be "how does my penis size compare to all your other partners." STOP IT !!!

Be secure in yourself!!


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Your list of "lies" are about as trivial and juvenile as I could imagine. Sorry, man, but I'm declaring these issues all yours, and your wife is basically lying in place of saying, "hey, lunatic, leave me alone."


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Size was brought about by her talking about big feet in relation to penis size. I said you dated a guy who was 6'7" he had to have some monstrous feet. yadda yadda


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Size was brought about by her talking about big feet in relation to penis size. I said you dated a guy who was 6'7" he had to have some monstrous feet. yadda yadda


Jesus

"Some people can't live without a problem, if there isn't one, they create it".

You are that person.

Let it go. What you said was "asking for trouble". Do you really want to know that your wife got banged by some monster size **** that you can never EVER hold a candle to?

Trust me, if you are having the issues with "pre relationship sex".....this will be FAR FAR FAR more damaging in the long run.

:scratchhead:

She is with you for a reason and your current issues are driving her away from that reason as we speak.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> We did start off discussing past sex in a general sense. No agreement was made but it wasn't off limits.
> 
> Things that made me not trust:
> 
> ...


Not sure what difference one and two make. It's past history. How many sexual partners have you had? How do you know three and four are not true? Four was probably to make you feel good about yourself. I wouldn't do it because I have always figured it doesn't matter how big it is; it's what you do with that matters. Number five. Happy as in they're friends? If she wanted to be with her ex she would still be with her ex. If you don't trust her why are you still there? I don't like lies in a relationship either. I think there is no reason to lie about things. If that's a dealbreaker for you why are you still there? Leaving seems more dignified than snooping through email and texts.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Lila said:


> In the United States, many insurance companies are now required, by law, to provide some sort of mental health coverage. If not in the U.S., I believe many other westernized countries have some sort of mental health support network for disadvantaged and low income families. Take advantage of it before your RJ destroys your marriage.


Not for marriage counseling. It also used to be you had to have a diagnosis of mental illness for individual therapy. Not sure if that has changed. I have a diagnosis for individual counseling so that has never been an issue. But I know my husband and I have been seeing a marriage counselor and we pay out of pocket.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> We did start off discussing past sex in a general sense. No agreement was made but it wasn't off limits.
> 
> Things that made me not trust:
> 
> ...


So your wife is in a damned-if-she-does damned-if-she-doesn't position, isn't she? I'm not sure I could stay married to someone who put me in those handcuffs.

It's also pretty clear that you just don't get it and nothing we can say here will make a bit of difference. Take the advice of others and get someone with skills to help you keep your marriage. How jealous do you think you'll be when you've driven your wife into the bed of another man?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Pooh Bear said:


> Not sure what difference one and two make. It's past history. How many sexual partners have you had? How do you know three and four are not true? Four was probably to make you feel good about yourself. I wouldn't do it because I have always figured it doesn't matter how big it is; it's what you do with that matters. Number five. Happy as in they're friends? If she wanted to be with her ex she would still be with her ex. If you don't trust her why are you still there? I don't like lies in a relationship either. I think there is no reason to lie about things. If that's a dealbreaker for you why are you still there? Leaving seems more dignified than snooping through email and texts.


one and two don't make a difference except that it wasn't true. As to the number when we met I asked the number. She said 8. Later it went to 10. Then 13. I'm sure it's not done growing.

Three, actually know a guy she dated before. Told him she loved him. I guess she could have just been saying it.

Five happy as in "I love my sexy husband so much!!! heart heart winky face" Again doesn't matter except that it wasn't true.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So your wife is in a damned-if-she-does damned-if-she-doesn't position, isn't she? I'm not sure I could stay married to someone who put me in those handcuffs.
> 
> It's also pretty clear that you just don't get it and nothing we can say here will make a bit of difference. Take the advice of others and get someone with skills to help you keep your marriage. How jealous do you think you'll be when you've driven your wife into the bed of another man?


You're right, but it wasn't always a lose-lose situation. Before we got serious she could have told me these things and it wouldn't have mattered. I was free to walk away or keep going or make our relationship more of a casual thing. Instead it evolved based on my perception of her which was not who she was.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Your marital dynamic is twisted and unhealthy - for both of you. Both of you could likely benefit from IC to figure out why each of you seems drawn to this sort of relationship.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> You're right, but it wasn't always a lose-lose situation. Before we got serious she could have told me these things and it wouldn't have mattered. I was free to walk away or keep going or make our relationship more of a casual thing. Instead it evolved based on my perception of her which was not who she was.


Fine. Do you love her now for what she actually is, or do you only love the version of her you wished you had married? That's really the only thing that matters RFN. You're *****ing that you were sold a bill of goods differing from the original manifest. Instead of having buyer's remorse, do you like the actual goods received? 

Thinking you have the moral high ground here might make you feel justified in destroying your marriage, and then where will you be? All alone on top of the hill you decided to die on, but not actually dead. Just lonely.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> one and two don't make a difference except that it wasn't true. As to the number when we met I asked the number. She said 8. Later it went to 10. Then 13. I'm sure it's not done growing.
> 
> Three, actually know a guy she dated before. Told him she loved him. I guess she could have just been saying it.
> 
> Five happy as in "I love my sexy husband so much!!! heart heart winky face" Again doesn't matter except that it wasn't true.


Maybe she did love him. I've loved multiple people in my lifetime. She said she loved you to her ex? You have a problem with the winky face? Is that what the problem is? You think she is lying because of that? I think you are really overanalyzing everything and I don't know if you would be happy with anyone. And you seem to be reading things into everything. Could you see an individual therapist? Have you looked into coverage for individual therapy? 

It's not really appropriate for you to ask how many people she has been with anyway. Maybe the number changes because she forgot. Maybe some people weren't memorable and she realized that she had forgotten them. I have to tell you if someone asked me how many people I had been with straight out I would probably not see him again. It says to me that he is uncomfortable with the fact that I have had a past sex life and he is either a misogynist or really insecure.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I agree with the other posters that what is in someone's past is not an issue now.

One way I look at it. I am far from perfect, I've made mistakes, done things I've regretted, things I am to embarrassed to talk about. I actually would prefer to believe that my wife made mistakes as well - it would make me feel too inferior to learn that she had been perfect all of her life. 

I like being married to a real, flawed person, I wouldn't be able to live with perfection, because *I* would ruin that perfection.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Pooh Bear said:


> Maybe she did love him. I've loved multiple people in my lifetime. She said she loved you to her ex? You have a problem with the winky face? Is that what the problem is? You think she is lying because of that? I think you are really overanalyzing everything and I don't know if you would be happy with anyone. And you seem to be reading things into everything. Could you see an individual therapist? Have you looked into coverage for individual therapy?
> 
> It's not really appropriate for you to ask how many people she has been with anyway. Maybe the number changes because she forgot. Maybe some people weren't memorable and she realized that she had forgotten them. I have to tell you if someone asked me how many people I had been with straight out I would probably not see him again. It says to me that he is uncomfortable with the fact that I have had a past sex life and he is either a misogynist or really insecure.


It was her choice to answer. She could have said mind your own damn business. She chose to lie and portray herself as someone she wasn't.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OP-- you should really drop it because nothing positive is going to come out of this argument. If you really have a problem with her past, just accept that and move on. Arguing with her about it is not going to do either of you any good.

On the larger issue about whether past matters, of course it does. It especially matters if you presented yourself in a way that does not reflect reality. This is not limited to number of sexual partners, but does not exclude it either.

As for women who lie about past number of sexual partners then pretend it doesn't matter-- if it didn't matter, why would you take the trouble to lie?


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> It was her choice to answer. She could have said mind your own damn business. She chose to lie and portray herself as someone she wasn't.


I don't know that she was lying about this information. Like I said, maybe she forgot. She maybe hasn't thought that much about it. She wasn't cheating on you. She was with other lovers before she met you. But if you are not happy, why not just leave? What are you hoping to solve? It sounds like a no win situation.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

8 and 13 are much different. She has said she told me 8 because it's not my business. Fair enough. Just say that and be done with it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

It's probably north of 20.

You can't change it.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Nope can't change it. I know it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I just thought she was honest IF I ASKED. To know she would blatantly lie is just killing me right now and making me doubt every thing she ever said. I'm just venting more than anything today.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Lot's of women lie about this or rationalize why their number is really lower than it is. It's not unusual. Not sure if that helps you.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

And a lot of the ones that do, then complain that the man can't just accept them as they are. Generalization.


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## Binji (Jun 25, 2014)

So what's the end goal? Divorce?…If its going to haunt you then move on, but I don't believe its healthy if you keep bringing things up like this and continuing to stay with her.

You're right 8 to 13 is BIG leap. That's moderate to hoeish levels. Personally For me it would be a wrap if I found out she's got numbers and climbing, because more than likely the number is around 20-25. Your best bet is just to move on and save the future headaches.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

If your wife is at least moderately attractive and spent any significant amount of time outside of a committed relationship then 13 is not very high.

Just think of how many women you probably would be with if they were throwing themselves at you constantly the way men throw themselves at attractive women.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Can your wife tell you the truth without you making a federal casee out of everything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> She chose to lie and portray herself as someone she wasn't.


She's still the same person either way. What changes about who she is when you have the different answers?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

People don't lie in a vacuum, there's no need. There are certain questions that my wife could ask me that I would still lie to her about after 30 years, because I know the reaction they would generate and I know how futile that reaction would be after all this time.

Fortunately, she's also savvy enough to not ask them, so I don't have to.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> 8 and 13 are much different.


Not in my world. Numbers need to differ by a lot more than less than a factor of 2 to be "much different".


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Binji said:


> So what's the end goal? Divorce?…If its going to haunt you then move on, but I don't believe its healthy if you keep bringing things up like this and continuing to stay with her.
> 
> You're right 8 to 13 is BIG leap. *That's moderate to hoeish levels. *Personally For me it would be a wrap if I found out she's got numbers and climbing, because more than likely the number is around 20-25. Your best bet is just to move on and save the future headaches.


See this is the problem and this is why a woman might choose to lie about how many partners she has had. Because she gets called a hoe or worse. Men don't get called anything for sleeping with a lot of women and many of them even brag about it.


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

OP
Your spinning your tires on this. Nothing can be changed about the past, it's over. Is your wife honest in other aspects of your marriage?
Maybe she was trying to protect you and your ego, which is not a bad thing. She shouldn't have lied, I agree but maybe you should tell her in the future to plead the fifth and not lie to you.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't know if she is or not tornado. Well we've added 3 more since lunch.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

So now we are at double the first number. Plus she said if I wanted to know how many ever she'd have to think about it.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I Don't Know,
I must say I am somewhat confused by the posts here condoning deception. As much as we see trickle truthing and flat out lying it surprises me that it is acceptable to some in certain circumstances. The ends justify the means in this instance? Regardless the importance of the subject matter, lying to obtain an object or status is ill gotten gains.

If your wife lied to secure your hand in marriage, then she must now face the truth. Each of us enters into marriage with an understanding of the person to whom we give our vow. Altering that perception with deceit establishes an atmosphere of dishonesty and compromises the very foundation on which the marriage will rest. It may also serve to set precedent as to the behavior forthcoming after the union. I fail to see how this can be regarded as insignificant.

It is true that the past is the past but which version of the past is acceptable? And upon which version are life affecting decisions made? The fact that someone is ashamed of their past does not alter it and attempting to do so with lies only compounds the issue. The difference between being promiscuous and being promiscuous and a liar.

My advice would be to have a serious conversation with your wife and explain your feelings regarding her prevarications and the effect they are having on your trust. You must then decide if those effects are of a level that you cannot overcome. If so then you must move forward accordingly. If however, you desire to continue the marriage then your wife will need to understand the importance of always telling the truth and will need to rebuild the trust that her lies have injured.

As to your snooping I do not believe that possible in a marriage. If a spouse is doing something that they do not want exposed then they must accept the consequences for that behavior if or when it comes to light and for the deceit employed to cover it up. Good luck to you.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> So now we are at double the first number. Plus she said if I wanted to know how many ever she'd have to think about it.


You need to let this go or move on. You are being abusive and disrespectful to your partner. It is not ok that you went through her texts the way you did. You were looking for that information as it was very past information. If she tells you any lies do you think it is because she is afraid of how you will react? Have you ever made her feel afraid of you? You need some help. You may not be able to get counseling through insurance but there are therapists who will take a sliding scale. So lack of insurance is not an excuse. I hope for the best for both you and your partner.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Idontknow

I don't care about my partners previous experience, but if I did, I'd sort of divide it into

0 - no prior experience

1 - one experience

2-30 Has prior experience

10-100 Has lots of prior experience

>50 Would want to have some feel for why the number is so high. Not necessarily a problem, but was it just someone who enjoys lots of sex (great), or a sign of some sort of compulsion (which might be a problem), or sex-work (which is OK in the past, but not the present).

Also don't forget that "sex" may mean different things. Is if intercourse? Oral, lying together naked? Having an orgasm? 




I Don't Know said:


> 8 and 13 are much different. She has said she told me 8 because it's not my business. Fair enough. Just say that and be done with it.


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## Pinche Culero (Jan 5, 2015)

Forgetting about the sex she had with other men before she met you, and the lies regarding this, *how is she as a wife?* Is she warm, kind, loving (treats you like a porn stud), smart, attractive? If that's the case, then why obsess on small $h!t? The only thing you are going to accomplish is her walking out on you for good, is that what you really want?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So you are married to a liar. I don't think I saw you mention the word "love" in any of your posts. I'm being assumptive here, but it sounds like you don't care for the way she has lied about her ex, penis lengths, and who knows what else ...

Can't afford counseling? I call total b.s. on that. Counseling is practically free for anyone who has health insurance. If not, there are sliding-fee scales available through county healthcare agencies and the YMCA/YWCA used to have excellent counseling services for those in financial need.

What are you going to do? Resent your wife forever? Possibly forgive her? Make her fully disclose everything/anything she has done sexually since (fill in age here).

I'm serious. Are you going to stay with her or not?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't know if she is or not tornado. Well we've added 3 more since lunch.


I'm inclined to think she has totally given up and is just screwing with you at this point.

Anything less than her being a virgin in every imaginable sense of the word before meeting you would have been unforgivable to you, from the sound of it.

Were YOU a virgin in every sense of the word when she met you?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She's lieing and trickle-truthing you because you're asking her questions that she (understandably) doesn't think you can handle the truthful response. Her reaction isn't right, but to me, it's understandable. Your inquisition of her also isn't right, but is also understandable. Where does that leave you? I guess I'd start with counselling, if you want to actually save your marriage. And stop asking. Get professional guidance before the resentments and issues fester more.

C


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw... If you think counseling is expensive, try pricing out a divorce and two households...

C


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

There are things that people just don't need to know, not even a spouse. There are thoughts and things that a wife or husband doesn't need to know. I think most people in the right circumstances will lie, especially to spare someone's feelings. The problem is if the lie is discovered, Darned if you do darned if you don't. Careful what you think you want to know. Having said that, if she is honest in every other phase of the marriage maybe you just let it go, if she is dishonest elsewhere then you have a terrible problem.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Nope can't change it. I know it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I just thought she was honest IF I ASKED. To know she would blatantly lie is just killing me right now and making me doubt every thing she ever said. I'm just venting more than anything today.


You're frustrated because she didn't trust you with the truth. She decided you'd judge her so you didn't get the chance. There's no doubt about it that women are judged for their past where men are not. Still it was weak of her to lie.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> You're frustrated because she didn't trust you with the truth. She decided you'd judge her so you didn't get the chance. There's no doubt about it that women are judged for their past where men are not. Still it was weak of her to lie.


If that's the case then she was right. He would have - as is - judging.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Yep, I'm with those that say you need to deal with your irrational thoughts. RJ is killing your mind and will kill your marriage. Your poor wife is in a no win situation here. Whatever she says, you'll crucify her. If I were her, I'd be now asking you what answer you need to stop asking these questions.

Surely in the US you have free phone help lines you can call? Someone needs to talk you down, and quick. Get help now!


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I can't condone outright lying.

However, there are such things as differences of opinion and different priorities. 

OP says that his wife was lying about a tubal reversal, because she says they talked about it but never went further.

I am a researcher and to me, talking about something would include talking to doctors, and maybe even setting a potential date. 

My husband and I had a date and a slot scheduled for adoption training this past weekend; we weren't able to make it. Previously we went to an informal meeting to learn more about the process. Those are two actions we took to get information, but we haven't really started. Right now, I still have to say that a potential action towards adoption is in the talking stages. If I didn't go through with it, then it didn't get out of "Idea" into "Reality." 

So to me, this is "discussed it but didn't do it" and "set a date but didn't do it" isn't a big deal- they look the same to me. The OP feels differently in his wife's case. To me, it is a matter of opinion. However, the OP is calling his a wife a liar over it. I don't know that it is lying. They just see things differently.

He is upset that she looked happy with her ex on FB even though she says she wasn't really happy with him. Well, he is her Ex so I think that action alone demonstrates that she was ultimately unhappy with him. 

I think it is REALLY stretching things to call her a liar about it because she has some happy pics on FB. How many unhappy pictures do you see on FB? No one posts unhappy pictures unless they are from news clips. I don't think I have ever seen one sad picture of a friend on FB.

The "partner" thing- this has been discussed ad nauseum on TAM. Maybe she did outright lie to him about the numbers. Even if this is the case, from the above examples he gave I think he has gone overboard.

OP I think you've crossed some emotional stability lines. 
And ironically, it makes *you* untrustworthy. It sure looks like your anger/insecurity/emotions- whether they are rightful or not- is driving you. You do not appear to be in control of yourself. 

If I was your wife, I would not believe I could tell you anything at this point. She clearly can't trust you to handle whatever the truth is. She definitely can't trust you to listen to her without judgment. You are now seeing her through a dark lens.

You might look up some online Cognitive Behavioral Therapy techniques and try to walk yourself through them. When I've gotten overly anxious, I've done the "What Next" exercise, where you take each Worst Outcome and think "What If the Worst Happened? What would come next?" It's called De-Escalating- here is a link

Decatastrophizing -- The What If Technique - Cognitive Therapy and Negative Thoughts

Hopefully you can follow in the footsteps of other posters who have been where you are and have found a way out. 

Best of luck!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> You're frustrated because she didn't trust you with the truth. She decided you'd judge her so you didn't get the chance. There's no doubt about it that women are judged for their past where men are not. Still it was weak of her to lie.


Of course, the irony of how correct she was isn't lost on anyone contributing here either.


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## Pinche Culero (Jan 5, 2015)

Unless you are trying to gather evidence to justify ending your marriage, what good will having all the info on your wife's sexual past before the two of you met, be for you and your marriage?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> I can't condone outright lying.
> 
> However, there are such things as differences of opinion and different priorities.
> 
> ...


Faulty logic. He could be her ex because he caught her lying to him one time too many and kicked her to the curb.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you should ask your wife why she wants to stay married to you. Its very odd that you put yourself through this but I guess its a lack of self confidence. Putting someone you love through this is worse though, its sadistic.

I hope she has someone in her life she can rely on. If she were my daughter, she wouldn't have to worry about your mental condition as she would always be welcome at home. What you are putting her through is abusive.

I think you can get a no fault divorce in any state, set her free.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If that's the case then she was right. He would have - as is - judging.


Maybe he would have at which point she could say "take it or leave it buddy". My point is that by the time you're ready to marry someone you should trust them and have enough respect to be truthful with them in general. Maybe the truthful answer is "I'm not going to tell you" which is perfectly fine.

Personally I would have felt like I was settling if I wasn't comfortable being honest with my wife. It screams insecurity and that's not attractive on women either.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I don't know OP's whole situation, but the accusations of abuse based on this alone seem pretty out there. Her snooped on her facebook. Not super cool, but I think calling this abusive is a stretch.

Let's say OP had been engaged 3 times before his wife, but never told her about it or even lied when she asked if he'd ever been engaged before her. She snoops his facebook, sees the engagement announcements and confronts him about it. I doubt anyone here would call that abusive.

I do ultimately think fighting about this is wasted effort, though.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I Don't Know said:


> Nope can't change it. I know it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I just thought she was honest IF I ASKED. To know she would blatantly lie is just killing me right now and making me doubt every thing she ever said. I'm just venting more than anything today.


IDK, I've been in your shoes (minus the penis size question, I know better... lol)

I know how this starts out. It's curiosity. It's wanting to know what kind of person your potential mate is, based on prior behavior.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of us DO care about the type of person we're getting involved with. The past is the past, and people change, but still, it's all helped to shape and guide every one of us, positively or negatively.

But it's a total crapshoot from day one. If only one partner is concerned/interested/curious about this type of thing, you have a problem, and usually a big one. When both partners are on the same page, then it's fine.

For example, my ex wife and I were on the same page when we started dating. She asked questions, as did I. We both wanted to know what we were getting with each other, and keep in mind, this type of thing is only part of this process, not the whole thing.

When I started dating my current wife, I found out quickly that she was not like this, and honestly, it confused me. It never occurred to me that some people just don't want to talk about their past.

But I did learn to respect her, and it took much longer for me to accept it, but I did.

Like you, I got the lies, the half-truths, and the things that she skipped over entirely. Like you, THIS is what I was not happy about. Not the answers or the revelations and such. The "why would you lie about THAT?"

The crux of the matter is that people like you and I are more hurt that our partners can't be honest with us than anything else. It's not even the responses that bother us - we just use those as the excuse to be upset.

It's true what everybody is saying here - it doesn't matter. But at one point in our relationship, these things do matter, but not for the reasons we think they do. Some of us do want an accurate picture of what we're getting, and the actual responses don't matter so much as the fact that we KNOW what the answers are, if that makes sense.

Knowing what we're getting allows us to tailor our reltionships to fit and work better, imo. For example, if someone is 35 years old and has never spent more than a few months in a relationship with someone, that's moderately important. If someone has never been in love before, or conversely, been in love with a dozen people, that's good to know. If someone has been in an abusive relationship, has cheated or been cheated on, etc etc etc.

My wife has had a few LTR's, and in each one, she has been cheated on. I think this is important to know. Is it necessary information? No, of course not. But all the same.

Another example, and this may not fit here, but my wife and I know a woman who was a prostitute for a very short time when she was younger (as in, under age). My wife has known her forever. This woman had major problems at home and this is how she lashed out, unfortunately. This does not define her in the slightest, and she's actually a very lovely woman, now married with a couple of kids, is a great mom, great wife, etc. But her husband has no clue about what she used to do - and again, it does not define her. But it's awkward. Her husband is happy, but he's clueless about this, while some of us know her secret. She's been so bold as to come out and ask those who know about this to never bring it up in front of her husband.

Theoretically, no, it's none of our business. Practically, it does help insofar as how we act and react to things within the relationship.

As I said above, however, these problems only arise when each partner is on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to this.

The trick is recognizing that one can not win this argument and get your partner to see it your way. It won't happen. The ONLY solution is to let it go. I wouldn't be able to convince my wife why things like this are/were important to me, and neither will you. Like it or not, it's a no-win situation.

Trust me, drop it and let it go.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thundarr said:


> Personally I would have felt like I was settling if I wasn't comfortable being honest with my wife. It screams insecurity and that's not attractive on women either.


Totally agree.

Yes, OP is being insecure, and is rightfully being bashed here for that.

But so is she...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am in agreement with Alex, the past before you were in her life and she in yours should stay there, if there is no kid involved or ex that will plague your present or future then leave ti alone...only think that matters and this is the only issue i have with any of this...is she honest with you in the present? will she be honest with you in the future? sadly she has placed doubt in your head....and that can become a demon onto itself. This is where communicate and openness must created and worked at. And on her side she knows that your willing to snoop to uncover things...so she will be on her guard as well...the only way around this is transparency on both sides, otherwise this kernel of dishonesty and distrust could grow to destroy your marriage. I recommend couple counseling.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

alexm said:


> IDK, *I've been in your shoes (minus the penis size question, I know better... lol)*
> 
> I know how this starts out. It's curiosity. It's wanting to know what kind of person your potential mate is, based on prior behavior.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I knew better too. But she kept saying it was the biggest and I started believing my own hype. LMAO

I agree it's more about the deception than the actual number or acts. The details or whatever catch me off guard, but I can deal with them after I process them. I DO NEED to stop acting on or bringing up anything I learn until after I've slept on it a day or two. The knee jerk reactions are destructive and put the focus on the wrong thing. I'm not saying I like that she did this or that but I'm also not going to throw every thing away over prior sex.

For example I don't really think 20 (hypothetical number) partners is excessive for a 35 year old woman. 6 (I believe the final count) in the year she was single isn't really out of the range I'd expect. Especially considering 3 of the guys were one offs. Not ONS in the traditional sense, but just did it one time.

On a side note, one of these one time guys was a co worker of hers. We went to a dinner for her work and that guy was at our table sitting right beside her.  They were "best friends." That does kinda piss me off. If I really gave a crap what the guy thought, I'd be way beyond pissed.

I do believe she is starting to be honest. She said last night she was ashamed of how she was the year before we met. She was cold and bitter and doing whatever she wanted at the time. She said if she heard of some other girl acting like she did she would think badly of her. She didn't want me to think she was a *****. I get it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Nope can't change it. I know it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I just thought she was honest IF I ASKED. To know she would blatantly lie is just killing me right now and making me doubt every thing she ever said. I'm just venting more than anything today.


First off, people lie. Me, you, your wife, my wife, etc. etc. Realize this is a fact and move on.
Second, she is lying to protect you FROM yourself.
Third, she is lying to protect herself FROM you.

Forget about it. Go run a couple miles.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> If your wife is at least moderately attractive and spent any significant amount of time outside of a committed relationship then 13 is not very high.
> 
> Just think of how many women you probably would be with if they were throwing themselves at you constantly the way men throw themselves at attractive women.


Does a foot job count? 
There was this time late one evening at a sorority house that I sat down on a couch next to this girl I did not know.........


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

alexm said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Yes, OP is being insecure, and is rightfully being bashed here for that.
> 
> But so is she...


But she's not the one in here asking for advice... So for us to tell her that she should be honest and either tell him to buzz off or give him the truth is pointless.

C


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Yeah, I knew better too. But she kept saying it was the biggest and I started believing my own hype. LMAO
> 
> I agree it's more about the deception than the actual number or acts. The details or whatever catch me off guard, but I can deal with them after I process them. I DO NEED to stop acting on or bringing up anything I learn until after I've slept on it a day or two. The knee jerk reactions are destructive and put the focus on the wrong thing. I'm not saying I like that she did this or that but I'm also not going to throw every thing away over prior sex.
> 
> ...


We all have a commentary in our heads to a certain extent. You are in a rough position, because your commentary is a terrible think. Kids sometimes have imaginary friends, but are smart enough to dream up friends they like. Adults tend to have imaginary conversations in their head with a voice that tells them they are worthless.

I was struck by how you mentioned you believed your won hype. You probably feel a bit stupid about that, but you should not. If you have low confidence and low self-esteem it is because their is an unconscious voice telling you that you are not good enough. Frankly, if you want to win an argument against that you will use anything you can.

The thing is, you cannot win an argument against that voice, as it is not reasoning, just a recurring thought. The trick is to learn that it is just a silly thought. Until then, these things will haunt you. You will feel vulnerable to any criticism.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Whether you were right or wrong to make an issue out of this OP, it is now an issue that is threatening your marriage. She may have good reasons to be lying and maybe not, but you and your wife need to sit down and talk this out or it is going to drive the two of you apart.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Anyone read the "Revenge of the Sith" book? The parts about the dragon in Anakin's head come to mind.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You have a right to expect her to be honest about her behavior since she's been with you. Before that, it's none of your business. That should have been ironed out before marriage.

What you're doing now is pain shopping. Why? She can't change her past and obviously she's embarrassed about it. Is this snooping and interrogation a mask for another source of discontentment with her?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> First off, people lie. Me, you, your wife, my wife, etc. etc. Realize this is a fact and move on.
> Second, she is lying to protect you FROM yourself.
> Third, she is lying to protect herself FROM you.
> 
> Forget about it. Go run a couple miles.


Yeah, I get that.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> You have a right to expect her to be honest about her behavior since she's been with you. Before that, it's none of your business. That should have been ironed out before marriage.
> 
> What you're doing now is pain shopping. Why? She can't change her past and obviously she's embarrassed about it. Is this snooping and interrogation a mask for another source of discontentment with her?


I don't believe it is. Discontentment with myself is a possibility. All the looking at the past started as way to verify (or disprove) that she was actually happier with me than before me. Part of me wants to believe every great thing she says about me or us, but another part just doesn't think it's possible for anyone to feel that way about me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't believe it is. Discontentment with myself is a possibility. All the looking at the past started as way to verify (or disprove) that she was actually happier with me than before me. Part of me wants to believe every great thing she says about me or us, but another part just doesn't think it's possible for anyone to feel that way about me.


Very unattractive behavior. Stop this before you convince her that she was happier before you came along.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Yeah, I get that.


OK. So what's the problem?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

UMP said:


> First off, people lie. Me, you, your wife, my wife, etc. etc. Realize this is a fact and move on.
> Second, she is lying to protect you FROM yourself.
> Third, she is lying to protect herself FROM you.
> 
> Forget about it. Go run a couple miles.


Best advice of the thread IMO

:smthumbup:

OP, don't let the past prevent you from living the future. Cause that's exactly what you are doing. Her prior relationships matter NONE today. Just ignore yourself on this, your brain is playing tricks on you.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> OK. So what's the problem?


I don't guess there is one. We'll just tell each other what ever is convenient at the time.

I understand that I put her in a position where anything but a lie was nearly impossible. However to know your wife will look you in the eye and lie to a point blank question is disheartening.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
Never ask for truths that you can't accept.

Your partner may daydream about previous encounters with other people. These may just be thoughts amplified by fantasy, or they may have been better lovers.

You are NOT really the most attractive / sexy person they have ever met. 

There are things about you your partner doesn't like. You have habits, behaviors etc that bother them, or make them think less of you.

You sometimes embarrass them. 

Sometimes they have sex with you when they don't really feel like it and don't enjoy it much.

Sometimes they wonder what life would have been like with someone else, and sometimes they imagine it would have been better.

They have fantasies that might shock or offend you

And it isn't the dress, you have put on weight, and no you don't have the biggest penis they have ever seen.


Are you able to understand that despite all that, they love you and are happy with you? That they have not "settled", but that real people are not perfect, 

Do you want truth, or do you want all the little lies we tell each other in order to avoid hurt feelings?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't guess there is one. We'll just tell each other what ever is convenient at the time.
> 
> I understand that I put her in a position where anything but a lie was nearly impossible. However *to know your wife will look you in the eye and lie to a point blank question is disheartening.*


As well it should be. People lie for many reasons but the predominant one seems to be out of fear. Obviously, your wife was fearful of how you would handle her truths. 

And, it doesn't seem that you are processing the fact that she doesn't feel safe sharing her truths with you. Why is that? Is there a way you can reassure her that you are capable of hearing the truth without making her life a living hell?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't guess there is one. We'll just tell each other what ever is convenient at the time.
> 
> I understand that I put her in a position where anything but a lie was nearly impossible. However to know your wife will look you in the eye and lie to a point blank question is disheartening.


If you are honest with yourself you will admit that you have told a lie in your past. If my statement is not true than you are perhaps the only person living or that has ever lived that has never told a lie. In that case, congratulations!

If my statement is true and you have told a lie, why would you believe that your wife or anyone else for that matter would be any different than you?

Add to this your confessed difficulty accepting the number of her past lovers, how could you expect her to do anything else? In fact, if she just flat out told you "look honey, I've slept with so many men, I can't even remember how many. As far as size, I've slept with guys that had such big c$cks, I had to go to the hospital to get my jaw reset.", then I would worry that she just doesn't care what you think.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> As well it should be. People lie for many reasons but the predominant one seems to be out of fear. Obviously, your wife was fearful of how you would handle her truths.
> 
> And, it doesn't seem that you are processing the fact that she doesn't feel safe sharing her truths with you. Why is that? Is there a way you can reassure her that you are capable of hearing the truth without making her life a living hell?


Probably not at this point.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

UMP said:


> If you are honest with yourself you will admit that you have told a lie in your past. If my statement is not true than you are perhaps the only person living or that has ever lived that has never told a lie. In that case, congratulations!
> 
> If my statement is true and you have told a lie, why would you believe that your wife or anyone else for that matter would be any different than you?
> 
> Add to this your confessed difficulty accepting the number of her past lovers, how could you expect her to do anything else? In fact, if she just flat out told you "look honey, I've slept with so many men, I can't even remember how many. As far as size, I've slept with guys that had such big c$cks, I had to go to the hospital to get my jaw reset.", then I would worry that she just doesn't care what you think.


Yep, one can say that his girlfriend lying = love. She cares enough about you to not hurt you.

If she didn't love you, she would not lie and not be afraid to hurt you.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> If you are honest with yourself you will admit that you have told a lie in your past. If my statement is not true than you are perhaps the only person living or that has ever lived that has never told a lie. In that case, congratulations!
> 
> If my statement is true and you have told a lie, why would you believe that your wife or anyone else for that matter would be any different than you?
> 
> Add to this your confessed difficulty accepting the number of her past lovers, how could you expect her to do anything else? In fact, if she just flat out told you "look honey, I've slept with so many men, I can't even remember how many. As far as size, I've slept with guys that had such big c$cks, I had to go to the hospital to get my jaw reset.", then I would worry that she just doesn't care what you think.


You're right. I absolutely can not argue with you on this. How do you tell what's true and what's not? Or does it matter? If someone tells you they love you is that enough regardless if it's true or not? OK you can probably tell that by how they act but you get my drift right?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"If someone tells you they love you is that enough regardless if it's true or not?" As long as their actions back their words, yes.

Of course, the person being loved has to believe that they are worthy of that love. Are you worthy of your wife's love?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Right now probably no. I think I could be if I can control myself better.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Therein lies the conundrum. You don't think you're worthy of love so there is no way your wife can prove she loves you or make you believe she loves you.

There will come a time when your wife will get tired of jumping through hoops to reassure you. Please get into counseling for yourself.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> You're right. I absolutely can not argue with you on this. How do you tell what's true and what's not? Or does it matter? If someone tells you they love you is that enough regardless if it's true or not? OK you can probably tell that by how they act but you get my drift right?


I really don't think you can tell what is true and what is not exactly true. (coming from a human) All you can do is be the best person you want to be and hope that that is enough for your relationship.
I know my wife loves me. She has stayed with me for 23 years and went through my heart attack and other heart problems. The emotional pain you go through after a heart attack is TEN times worse than the actual attack. I drove my wife crazy with depression and anger because of it. Our oldest daughter aged 21 is severely mentally handicapped and needs to be with someone 24/7. 
I say all this because even though my wife stayed the course and loved me throughout, sex got real bad. Why? Because I was bringing her down with my anger and negativity. I realized I was killing my marriage and chose to change myself. I understand how you feel, but you MUST get rid of that negativity in your mind. I live by this rule: SPEAK TO OURSELVES MORE, LISTEN TO OURSELVES LESS.
When you feel that uncontrollable urge to doubt your wife or feel insecure about her previous lovers or your comparative penis size, STOP and go back to the "rule."
If you are confident in yourself, and could give a crap who or how many men your wife slept with in the past, she will stop and say to herself "hey, he doesn't care about my past encounters anymore, he's confident in himself.....ohh I like that, I'm glad he's mine now."


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> I really don't think you can tell what is true and what is not exactly true. (coming from a human) All you can do is be the best person you want to be and hope that that is enough for your relationship.
> I know my wife loves me. She has stayed with me for 23 years and went through my heart attack and other heart problems. The emotional pain you go through after a heart attack is TEN times worse than the actual attack. I drove my wife crazy with depression and anger because of it. Our oldest daughter aged 21 is severely mentally handicapped and needs to be with someone 24/7.
> I say all this because even though my wife stayed the course and loved me throughout, sex got real bad. Why? Because I was bringing her down with my anger and negativity. I realized I was killing my marriage and chose to change myself. I understand how you feel, but you MUST get rid of that negativity in your mind. I live by this rule: SPEAK TO OURSELVES MORE, LISTEN TO OURSELVES LESS.
> When you feel that uncontrollable urge to doubt your wife or feel insecure about her previous lovers or your comparative penis size, STOP and go back to the "rule."
> If you are confident in yourself, and could give a crap who or how many men your wife slept with in the past, she will stop and say to herself "hey, he doesn't care about my past encounters anymore, he's confident in himself.....ohh I like that, I'm glad he's mine now."


Thank you. I really do need that practical type of advice and to hear that maybe it's not too late to change things. What kind of things do you think would work well?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Thank you. I really do need that practical type of advice and to hear that maybe it's not too late to change things. What kind of things do you think would work well?


Stop being insecure....PERIOD.
STOP IT.
Women HATE men or husbands that are insecure. THEY HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE insecure men.
Women WANT men, men that are secure in and of themselves. You want to know how to convince a woman that a 4 inch penis is enough? Be confident in your 4 inch penis, that's it. If you believe you can give your woman the best friggen orgasm she has ever had with your 4 inch penis, and a little help from your fingers, than you have already achieved your goal. When she's gasping for breath the last thing she'll be thinking of is how small your penis is. (Not saying you have a 4 inch penis, just using this as an analogy)
My suggestion to you is to stop asking your wife about ANYTHING regarding her past sexual experiences. Concentrate on today and being the best husband you can be TODAY. Be CONFIDENT in yourself. Even if she tests you, which she will, don't fold, don't go to the past.
For example.....let's say you have not talked about her past in 2 months, she comes up to you out of the blue and says....."honey, I want to be honest with you and I forgot to mention that I was with Bill Smith 10 years ago." You reply with, "Oh that's nice", as you grab her butt and give her a kiss while you walk away whistling. You will blow her mind and then she'll blow you :smthumbup:


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

IDK...you might as well just be by yourself, because ALL of us who are grown adults have pasts. You have put your wife in a no win situation. Either get ahold of yourself and let it GO, or do her the courtesy of a divorce.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Thank you. I really do need that practical type of advice and to hear that maybe it's not too late to change things. What kind of things do you think would work well?


Stop asking about her past.

Stop snooping into archived iPhone text records.

Stop snooping into anything to find out details about her past.

Stop talking about her past.

Start focusing on what you can do for yourself and your wife to make 2015 your best year ever. Put that energy you currently devote to thinking, talking and snooping into her past into planning and doing for the future. 

Get out of your head and do something for other people. Get out of your head and do something for yourself. Read a book, take up kick-boxing, learn to be a gourmet cook, volunteer at an animal shelter, learn how to manage your money and investing...DO _something _so it's not all about you and your insecurities about yourself.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> I When I've gotten overly anxious, I've done the "What Next" exercise, where you take each Worst Outcome and think "What If the Worst Happened? What would come next?" It's called De-Escalating- here is a link
> 
> Decatastrophizing -- The What If Technique - Cognitive Therapy and Negative Thoughts


^^^ This is a good technique, IDontKnow. "What if your wife has been with over 50 guys" 
If she has been with that many guys. Can you stay happily married to her?

If their penises were all bigger than yours. Can you stay happily married to her? 

Realizing that her lying was to protect herself from being judged; and protect your feelings. Can you accept this and stay happily married to her?

People are trying to help by saying "stop it", "get over it". But it's not that easy; even if it is true.

This bothers you at a very deep level. Would you say that you are sexually insecure? Are you and your wife happy overall in this area of life?

Btw, how many partners have you had? Did any of them have nicer breasts than your wife? Were they prettier? Tighter? etc. etc. What if your wife started grilling you about these details? Would you be okay with that?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't believe it is. Discontentment with myself is a possibility.* All the looking at the past started as way to verify (or disprove) that she was actually happier with me than before me. * Part of me wants to believe every great thing she says about me or us, but another part just doesn't think it's possible for anyone to feel that way about me.


Why?

Why do you need to know she is happier now than before? Has she done something? Has she said anything? 

What made you start this journey to prove she is happy now?

Are you trying to find things to use as a weapon to end the relationship? It would seem that you suddenly starting to bring up old stuff and basically forcing her to lie about it (because let's face it, it's very obvious that she is deeply embarrassed by this) could be a tool to use to say, "well, you lied to me about everything, I don't know you. I'm done." 

Lying about past partners when there is nothing major wrong in your marriage is so trivial. My H lied to me about being in LOVE with me for the first 4 years of our marriage...THAT'S something to have a hissy fit about....(and I did)....Past partners? No. Your wife feels like you are judging her now. She will not trust you with anything anymore. To top that off, she will get tired of having to reassure you that she's happy.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks UMP, Nora, and intheory. Good advice and I know the first step is to stop bringing it up. It's hard to accept that you will never know everything. 

Staarz, I need to know because if she's not happier with me then what's the point. I don't want to end up in 5 years with "I don't think I ever really loved you" or something. I don't think there's anything about me or that I do that would make her happier than most other guys.

I know, irony of ironies, me trying to find that proof is making her unhappy. Crazy.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

It's hard to accept that you will never know everything, when it's important to you. I don't know why it's important to me, most people don't care. I get that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You have to work on your own self esteem. You're right that trying to prove you are making her happier is making her unhappy. It will push her away.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PBear said:


> But she's not the one in here asking for advice... So for us to tell her that she should be honest and either tell him to buzz off or give him the truth is pointless.
> 
> C


No, but it's important that OP doesn't walk away from this thinking he's the only one being insecure.

It's important that he recognizes his wife's motivations for this, as well - not that it puts her at fault (it's still him) - but that she's not lying because she's a liar. She's lying because she's insecure about it.

It took me a while to figure this out about my own wife, and when I did, it helped me to deal, and eventually forget about the whole thing.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> It's hard to accept that you will never know everything, when it's important to you. I don't know why it's important to me, most people don't care. I get that.


IDK, 
I want you to know that when I say all these things to you I am speaking to myself as well. Some things are important to you in a deep way, same with me. It may be a different subject but still just as powerful a desire. I understand that.
It's easy for me or anyone else to tell you "don't do that" or "do this" when it's not that big a deal for us in particular. I get that too.
I have things that drive me crazy about my wife too, things that I should let go of and not constantly go over with in my head and with my wife.
I think you have gotten good advice. Your problem and mine is to take that good advice and apply it. It's like telling someone, "you need to eat less." The theory makes perfect sense and is correct, so why are there people 40, 50, 100, 300 pounds over weight? Because it is VERY hard to apply advice into action. I think it would really help you to talk to someone about controlling your "uncontrollable" desire to know the sexual past of your wife. You and I and everyone else needs to be able to control their mind so that it does not destroy our marriages.
Let me know what works for you because we all need help in this area.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Thanks UMP, Nora, and intheory. Good advice and I know the first step is to stop bringing it up. It's hard to accept that you will never know everything.


No one ever knows everything! We all live with uncertainty, every day and pretty much in every aspect of our lives.



> Staarz, I need to know because if she's not happier with me then what's the point. I don't want to end up in 5 years with "I don't think I ever really loved you" or something. I don't think there's anything about me or that I do that would make her happier than most other guys.


You can't predict the future; none of us can. There is also no objective scale of happiness with accurate measures to even be able to begin to know what formula of happiness could predict the future.

Even if the truth is that you DO make her happier than anyone, even if you were somehow able to prove the unprovable, you cannot control the future. There is no way to know, which is why we all live in the _present_, and plan for the future while hoping for the best.

I couldn't tell you what it is about me that makes my SO happy with me, and I couldn't tell you why he makes me happy. I don't even know if it's true that we are happier together than we could be with anyone else. There are probably lots of women out there that my SO could be happy with and vice versa. But we found each other and are making it work and that's enough. 

All I can say is that relationships always require work, and that's what makes or breaks a relationship. How happy people are when they go into a relationship doesn't predict how happy they will stay in the future. But if you work to make sure you are meeting each other's needs, and aren't taking each other for granted or constantly doing things to drain the other person, then you've got a much better chance of happiness.



> I know, irony of ironies, me trying to find that proof is making her unhappy. Crazy.


Do you think this is all a form of self-sabotage? Drive her away first before she can hurt you?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

When she tells you that she's happy, believe her. By constantly trying to find the proof you are, in essence, calling her a liar. Stop the disrespect.

For what it's worth, most women have no problem telling their husbands that they're unhappy. Your need for reassurance is sounding like a bottomless pit.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

norajane said:


> *No one ever knows everything! We all live with uncertainty, every day and pretty much in every aspect of our lives.
> 
> You can't predict the future; none of us can. There is also no objective scale of happiness with accurate measures to even be able to begin to know what formula of happiness could predict the future.
> 
> ...


All true. Maybe I am looking for a guarantee. I wasn't always like this. I used to be the guy that would get in the car alone and drive 6 hours away with no spare tire and no cell phone. LOL. I'm getting so old. 

Self-sabotage...that's a possibility.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> When she tells you that she's happy, believe her. By constantly trying to find the proof you are, in essence, calling her a liar. Stop the disrespect.
> 
> For what it's worth, most women have no problem telling their husbands that they're unhappy. Your need for reassurance is sounding like a bottomless pit.


It was becoming one.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> Awesome.
> 
> So I was snooping. Found old iPhone backup. Read texts. Found out she had sex with some guy I didn't know about before we met.


Curiosity killed the cat.

Perfect example.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Oh, I know JB. And I knew going in it was a horrible idea. I knew I was going to find something I didn't want to see. I fought the urge for 3 days before I finally broke down and looked. I should have just deleted the backups as they were old and useless anyway. But I didn't and I looked. No one to blame but me.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Wait. I take that back. It's not my fault at all. Curse you Steve Jobs!!!!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Curiosity killed the cat.
> 
> Perfect example.


If you look for a problem, you will find it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

DoF said:


> If you look for a problem, you will find it.


This sums up this entire post so succinctly.

I have learned (and I mean REALLY learned) to not go looking for things, because I WILL find something.

As far as OP's suggestion of wanting to know that he makes his wife the happiest she's ever been, that's also a total crapshoot.

I can tell you that the best 3 or 4 years of my life were spent with my ex wife. (the rest with her were crap!) Does this mean that I long for my ex wife? Not at ALL.

Maybe the best year(s) of your life were spent with your best friend, when you were 7. Or in college. Or high school. That does not, nor should not, take away from what you feel for your partner and vice versa.

Right now (which matters) I can't imagine anybody else on the planet making me happier than my wife - despite our issues.

Life is not a romance novel or a sappy movie. Life is, and always will be, RIGHT NOW. You can plan for the future, but you can't change the past.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

So are you looking for a way out of the relationship? That's exactly what this sounds like. You want a guarantee that you'll be happy in 5 years? That will NEVER happen. It is impossible to know what's going to happen in the future. 

But you know that. 

So, all I can gather from this is that you are making up a problem or creating drama in order to have a reason to walk away. You are doing this by creating an impossible goal of trying to figure out the future - when you KNOW you can't have an answer to this. 

Maybe you're hoping she will just walk away from having to deal with this nonsense and you don't have to be the bad guy in the situation of ending the relationship? 

It's hard to deal with someone who will never accept your answers. If she says she is happy, you'll tell her she isn't. If she says you're the best, you'll say you're not. If she says this is where she wants to be, you'll say no it's not. 

That's really borderline abusive. She will begin to doubt herself and what she is doing. She will think that no matter what she does/says she can't make you happy and she will think she isn't good enough. Eventually, she will shut down and give up.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm not looking for a way out. If i was looking for a way out, I have it. I could easily say that's it you lied I didnt know who I was marrying. Truth is no matter what I have found I still love her and want to be married to her. It would take a lot to change that. None of this is divorce worthy to me. And there's a realization... if I wouldn't divorce her over it it really doesn't matter.

I know there are no guarantees and I'm not looking for one. Not intentionally. I was saying maybe that's a motivation for this prompted by the question of am I trying to run her off before she hurts me. It's a possibility. I don't remember ever being this concerned about whether or not I was making someone happy. I always just assumed I was. Until things went south with my ex wife and she never said anything about why or what. I might be over reaching here to make sure that doesn't happen again.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> *Until things went south with my ex wife and she never said anything about why or what. I might be over reaching here to make sure that doesn't happen again.*


I think that could be a very real reason right there as to why you are doing this to her and yourself. You are afraid she will just up and leave one day stating that she was unhappy the whole time. I get it. 

Thing is, she won't be happy if this kind of stuff continues. She may be happy right now (well at this moment she is probably a bit embarrassed and ashamed), but how can she be happy with someone who she can't trust to not judge her or make her feel as though she is a less of a person because of her past?

You can continue to try your best to make sure she stays happy in the marriage by asking her if there is anything you could be improving on - but trying to prove that she is in fact happier now than before is only going to push her away from you. 

I don't think she meant to lie to you when you asked her if she had slept with this other person. I think she either (a) didn't remember it off hand, or (b) was so embarrassed and ashamed by the act that she would have rather forgot it ever happened. She probably already knew you would be upset. She probably thought you would be judging her - and she probably thinks you're still judging her. 

If you love her, then show her every day. Don't hound her about her past or the penis size of her past partners...there is no right answer to any of those questions.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I Don't Know said:


> Until things went south with my ex wife and she never said anything about why or what. I might be over reaching here to make sure that doesn't happen again.


This sums up why I did it to my wife, too.

I also never got any closure from my ex wife, which is likely why I overcompensated with my current wife. Like you, I never worried about stuff like that before.

It's interesting, because I hold no grudges against my ex wife for leaving, or anything else she did, I got over that very quickly. What I DO hold a grudge about is that she never gave me any closure. Never talked to me about what happened, or what was going on. IMO, it's very selfish to do something like that, when there's no reason to. Unless you're escaping an abusive relationship, you really do owe your partner an explanation, or at least an easy let-down.

In the end, though, it's not an excuse for your (or my) behavior towards our current partners. We should still know better. That said, it's not something I would have done had my ex wife given me any sort of closure, I know that. But that's not your, or my, wife's fault, or problem.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't think she actually forgot about this guy. It was more than once and there were 900 texts between them. But I know she is ashamed of that part of her life. She said she was cold and bitter the year after her divorce. She did what she wanted with no thought to hurting anyone. And the first number she gave me was because she didn't want me to think she was a wh0re.

So yesterday I told her that the only reason I care about her past is because I feel like if I'm not the biggest, best, deepest love, happiest, etc she will regret being with me or feel like she's missing something. I know that shows insecurity but I thought it was better than her believing I think of her as a wh0re now. I don't think that of her at all.

Just for info purposes. My first wife didn't leave me. I initiated the separation conversation. What she did do is drift along content to be in a low sex/low affection marriage. I think in some ways that might have been worse for me. I learned that some women will just go along for security or whatever. Maybe it didn't start off like that but it felt like being settled for. I never want that again.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> So yesterday I told her that the only reason I care about her past is because I feel like if I'm not the biggest, best, deepest love, happiest, etc she will regret being with me or feel like she's missing something. I know that shows insecurity but I thought it was better than her believing I think of her as a wh0re now. I don't think that of her at all.


Big mistake. You should assume you ARE that guy based on current status and her being WITH you.

What you just did with telling her above is made her rethink exactly what you said. NOW she is thinking about her past guys or possible future guys etc.

Big mistake IMO.

PAST IS IRRELEVANT. Get it thru your head!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

OP.. you have some unresolved trauma/pain in from your first wife that needs emotional closure. Part of that closure is accepting that we are never secure fully 100%. It just isn't possible. The rest of the emotional closure may come from a counselor. That pain needs resolution so that this doesn't come up again. 

In the mean time, even in your seeking closure to your unresolved trauma/pain in an unhealthy way did uncover a potential issue in your current relationship. Your wife chose deception to self protect. Bad choice as it fed your already unresolved trauma/insecurity/existing pain. She needs to understand that she needs to choose differently going forward. That created/added to pain.

Self protection already is a barrier to intimacy, but add deception to the mix and you are adding insecurity and pain on top. I would encourage you to cultivate honesty and vulnerability (mutual acceptance and self control) between the two of you. Let her know her choice to self protect through deception hurt. Ask her if she will consider choosing different next time. NONE of us like deception and for good reason, so forgive yourself that one. I do consider this fairly minor, BUT it still had an affect because of previous unresolved pain.

Also, just accept that no one is an end all be all. Just be the best you. My H had an affair on me in 2012 and for a time I competed in my own heart and head with this OW until I accepted that I am fully unique and bring a lot to the table and if he walks tomorrow, he can never have another me. As soon as I accepted that, the need to compete stopped. Work on relaxing, address the deception and you guys cultivate a better choice together and ask her to forgive you for your struggle that you will take care of your part of it. I think you guys are going to be ok. All the best to you!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Part of that closure is accepting that we are never secure fully 100%. It just isn't possible.


The truth, 100% :iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't think she actually forgot about this guy. It was more than once and there were 900 texts between them.


This was all before you met. I am curious - why are you backing up her phones from before you met? What was your motive for doing that? Why did you do that? Do you not trust her? Is this a pattern for you, the checking out her past before she met you, even after you are married now? On the surface, you seem insecure.



I Don't Know said:


> So yesterday I told her that the only reason I care about her past is because* I feel like if I'm not the biggest, best, deepest love, happiest, etc she will regret being with me or feel like she's missing something*.


This almost seems like self-sabotage. It seems you wanted to find something. (Who backs up old phones from eons ago?) You found something. Now you are upset that she slept with someone before she met you. You also slept with people before you met her, I presume, perhaps she doesn't even know about . Yet you are going to hold this over her head and let it stew and become angry/resentful that she has a past before you. And that is your choice. Just be advised: what happened then, before you met, is not related to your marriage now.

Choice is yours.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

JB, I didn't trust her because when she would mention something from the past, the story would change. Timelines didn't add up. Stuff like that. When I would say something about it, she would say I was mixing things up or even making things up. 

Of course she slept with people before we met. She was 34. I also slept with people. She doesn't know about most of them, but that's her choice. If she asked I would give as accurate an answer as possible. Most of my romps were over 15 years ago, so I might be foggy. The ones I was asking her about were within the last 3 years.

I'm not so much upset that she had sex with this guy or any other. I don't love the idea of it. I'd rather it hadn't happened, but I know it's normal and to be expected.

A few months ago she added a friend on facebook, let's say Jim. Not a big deal she has men and women as friends on her facebook, it's never bothered me. Usually they are people from high school or work, but this guy I didn't see a connection. So I ask her who is Jim? She says "you're getting worked up over a facebook friend just because his name is Jim?" I said "no not because his name is Jim, I just meant how do you know him. What does his name have to do with anything? Should I be worked up over a Jim?" She says "no I've never dated or had sex with a Jim." Ok. Fine. 

So, when I looked into the phone backups I see texts to a Jim. I have no idea if it's the same Jim or not. But the texts make it clear that she did have sex with a guy named Jim. So I send her a pic of the texts, she denies they are hers, I show her where she said this is (wife), she denies they had sex, I show her where she says in the texts that they have had sex. It's not that she fvcked Jim. It's that she acted like I'm crazy when I'm sitting there with proof.

Now I'll admit I'm crazy, but I'm crazy for digging not for thinking that she had sex with Jim.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> JB, I didn't trust her because when she would mention something from the past, the story would change. Timelines didn't add up. Stuff like that. When I would say something about it, she would say I was mixing things up or even making things up.
> 
> Of course she slept with people before we met. She was 34. I also slept with people. She doesn't know about most of them, but that's her choice. If she asked I would give as accurate an answer as possible. Most of my romps were over 15 years ago, so I might be foggy. The ones I was asking her about were within the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


Is Jim a different guy from the OP? I think all this internet social facebook stuff is crapola, but that's just me. I have no facebook, twitter or otherwise. In fact, I refuse to get a smartphone. I don't need to know what people are doing or have people know what I'm doing 24/7
Anyway, I would just make sure she is not having any emotional or physical affairs NOW. Forget about the past, leave it in the past. I think you need to find something to do which would channel all this energy you have into something else. Pick up some sort of hobby and get your mind off of this stuff !


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think it's weird that she's facebook friends with old FBs. I would not be OK with that either. That is current behavior-- not in the past. The fact that she thought it was OK to lie about her past with this guy so she can re-establish some sort of connection with him (without your being suspicious) is also a problem.

If her past is truly in her past, then she will cut off any relationship with this guy if you have a problem with it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Good grief! Do her a favor and just stone her and get it over with. If this keeps up much longer, she's going to wish to God that she had never met you. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> If her past is truly in her past, then she will cut off any relationship with this guy if you have a problem with it.


Well that I agree with.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> Is Jim a different guy from the OP? I think all this internet social facebook stuff is crapola, but that's just me. I have no facebook, twitter or otherwise. In fact, I refuse to get a smartphone. I don't need to know what people are doing or have people know what I'm doing 24/7
> Anyway, I would just make sure she is not having any emotional or physical affairs NOW. Forget about the past, leave it in the past. I think you need to find something to do which would channel all this energy you have into something else. Pick up some sort of hobby and get your mind off of this stuff !


Not the same Jim. But I didn't know that at the time.

I was thinking about getting back into bow shooting.



Anon1111 said:


> I think it's weird that she's facebook friends with old FBs. I would not be OK with that either. That is current behavior-- not in the past. The fact that she thought it was OK to lie about her past with this guy so she can re-establish some sort of connection with him (without your being suspicious) is also a problem.
> 
> If her past is truly in her past, then she will cut off any relationship with this guy if you have a problem with it.


Not the same guy. Found out after the fact.



Blondilocks said:


> Good grief! Do her a favor and just stone her and get it over with. If this keeps up much longer, she's going to wish to God that she had never met you. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.


I don't understand. How is not wanting someone to tell you you are crazy because you pick up on inconsistency and trying to prove you're not making sh1t up stoning them?


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> A few months ago she added a friend on facebook, let's say Jim. Not a big deal she has men and women as friends on her facebook, it's never bothered me. Usually they are people from high school or work, but this guy I didn't see a connection. So I ask her who is Jim? She says "you're getting worked up over a facebook friend just because his name is Jim?" I said "no not because his name is Jim, I just meant how do you know him. What does his name have to do with anything? Should I be worked up over a Jim?" She says "no I've never dated or had sex with a Jim."


If the possible answers to the question "Should i be worked up over Jim?" are "yes," "no," or "that's private"...

Would any of those answers have led to you NOT checking the phone records? 

I ask because it seems like you might not be creating an environment where she feels comfortable being honest with you.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I wasn't looking for anything about Jim specifically in the back up. Or anything specific at all actually. It was just coincidence that another guy named Jim was in there.

I've never said I was right to look or that I haven't put her in an extremely tough situation where there are no right answers for her to give. I know I screwed up bad. I'm not defending oor justifying anything I've done. The only thing I think I am right about is it was wrong of her to try to make me think I'm crazy and confused and making things up when I say, "wait this stor was different last time."


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

Yes, it was wrong of her to mislead you over the texts. 

But my point is, it no longer matters who is wrong or right. What matters is that your wife has accepted the fact that she cannot safely tell you the truth. THAT is what really needs fixing.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

that.girl said:


> Yes, it was wrong of her to mislead you over the texts.
> 
> But my point is, it no longer matters who is wrong or right. What matters is that your wife has accepted the fact that she cannot safely tell you the truth. THAT is what really needs fixing.


True. What do you suggest? The only thing I know to do is stop reacting poorly going forward and hope.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> True. What do you suggest? The only thing I know to do is stop reacting poorly going forward and hope.


Stop reacting poorly, and stop asking questions that you know you won't like the answer to. Stop setting her up to fail.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> True. What do you suggest? The only thing I know to do is stop reacting poorly going forward and hope.


I have no direct experience, but I have heard that cognitive behavior therapy might be useful in getting you to actually think differently. 

In the meantime, practicing keeping your mouth shut is probably your best bet. If you can't think differently, at least you can act differently. Do you have a good friend that knows about this that you could use like an AA sponsor? Instead of snooping in her phone or starting an argument, give him a call and let him talk you off the ledge.

Hell, post here if nothing else when you get too tightly wrapped around the axle. But keep your fool mouth shut at all costs as a starter.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Don't ask questions you don't really want the answer to. For example, the "Who had a bigger penis" question was ridiculous. You set her up to fail with that one. If she had said you weren't the biggest...you'd be insecure and mad. If she said you were (and she did) and you found out differently (and you did), you would be insecure and mad (and you are) AND you would label her a liar (which you did). 

She more than likely no longer feels comfortable telling you anything. This was a HUGE mistake on your part because if she can't confide in you - and one day JimBob is going to walk up and start to understand everything, she can confide in him, she can tell him the truth about herself....you're going to find yourself in a pickle. 

I think we all can agree that the lies she spun were bad. However, you didn't really give her another option did you? She knew how you would react...AND she was right.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I have no direct experience, but I have heard that cognitive behavior therapy might be useful in getting you to actually think differently.
> 
> In the meantime, practicing keeping your mouth shut is probably your best bet. If you can't think differently, at least you can act differently. Do you have a good friend that knows about this that you could use like an AA sponsor? Instead of snooping in her phone or starting an argument, give him a call and let him talk you off the ledge.
> 
> Hell, post here if nothing else when you get too tightly wrapped around the axle. But keep your fool mouth shut at all costs as a starter.


I've actually thought a sponsor type outlet before. I do have a few very close friends, since elementary school, and I'm sure they'd listen. I looked into a 12 step for jealousy/emotional issues before as well but there aren't any in my area.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Don't ask questions you don't really want the answer to. For example, the "Who had a bigger penis" question was ridiculous. You set her up to fail with that one. If she had said you weren't the biggest...you'd be insecure and mad. If she said you were (and she did) and you found out differently (and you did), you would be insecure and mad (and you are) AND you would label her a liar (which you did).
> 
> She more than likely no longer feels comfortable telling you anything. This was a HUGE mistake on your part because if she can't confide in you - and one day JimBob is going to walk up and start to understand everything, she can confide in him, she can tell him the truth about herself....you're going to find yourself in a pickle.
> 
> I think we all can agree that the lies she spun were bad. However, you didn't really give her another option did you? She knew how you would react...AND she was right.


Can't argue with any of that.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm sorry, but until it is clear there is no current cheating his reactions are of no consequence. OP, do you have confidence currently that there is no cheating going on?

If you do, then it is ok to relax and work on letting go and resolving your past issues so that it protects your current relationship, but there are enough little bitty red flags to just do a check and let it go. 

Reasonable vigilance. No more no less.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I'm sorry, but until it is clear there is no current cheating his reactions are of no consequence. OP, do you have confidence currently that there is no cheating going on?
> 
> If you do, then it is ok to relax and work on letting go and resolving your past issues so that it protects your current relationship, but there are enough little bitty red flags to just do a check and let it go.
> 
> Reasonable vigilance. No more no less.


How does someone finally prove that they are indeed not cheating? How does one convince someone who is at base suspicious and prone to jealousy, even retroactive jealousy, that they aren't cheating?

What if you never feel comfortable, should you be on "reasonable vigilance" 24/7? And is it your spouse's fault if you have some sort of disorder than makes you feel constantly uncomfortable, jealous, and suspicious that they need to constantly prove they aren't a cheater. 

This seems like perpetuating a no-win scenario for the wife.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Starstarfish said:


> How does someone finally prove that they are indeed not cheating? How does one convince someone who is at base suspicious and prone to jealousy, even retroactive jealousy, that they aren't cheating?
> 
> What if you never feel comfortable, should you be on "reasonable vigilance" 24/7? And is it your spouse's fault if you have some sort of disorder than makes you feel constantly uncomfortable, jealous, and suspicious that they need to constantly prove they aren't a cheater.
> 
> This seems like perpetuating a no-win scenario for the wife.


Not what I am advocating, but painting this op as nutso is a bit out of line imo

I think there is some reasonableness to his concern.

He should satisfy himself that she is trustworthy and not harrass her. I think she has given him reason to doubt.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

On a side note, one of these one time guys was a co worker of hers. We went to a dinner for her work and that guy was at our table sitting right beside her. ? They were "best friends." That does kinda piss me off. 

Kinda? This would cause me serious issue! Does she still work with him? I told my wife she better never allow this sort of thing to happen and she asked same in return. I feel it is utterly disrespectful to a spouse to allow this kind of mingling and not knowing this is your spouses past ****buddy. And to act like "besties" Hell No! Is she still friends with Ex on FB? Why keep photos of him and her together if she is unhappy with him. I would cull my photos out of courtesy to my wife.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> *I'm sorry, but until it is clear there is no current cheating *his reactions are of no consequence. OP, do you have confidence currently that there is no cheating going on?
> 
> If you do, then it is ok to relax and work on letting go and resolving your past issues so that it protects your current relationship, *but there are enough little bitty red flags *to just do a check and let it go.
> 
> Reasonable vigilance. No more no less.



Wait, I guess I missed something....what indicated that she could possibly be cheating? 

He said she friended a guy with the same name as a past partner, but it was NOT the past partner. 

What else indicated that she is possibly cheating?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Blossom, I don't have any suspicion that she is or ever planned to cheat. As much as I hate to admit it, I am a nutso. 

Intheory, point taken. Thing is even though objectively my wife would "lose" some and "win" others, in my heart she wins every single one. I need to believe she could feel the same.

DF, no she does not still work with that guy. He lives hours away now. She says it wouldn't bother her if I did something similar with an ex fbuddy so she didn't think anything of it. I have doubts about that but it's in the past and she clearly understands I have no desire to pal around with her former sex partners. I would have thought that was a given but whatever. She currently has no exes as FB friends that I know of. She did delete all the pictures the very first time I mentioned them and actually started a whole new FB acount to get rid of any mention of exes. The fact that she had kept 1 or 2 pictures did say to me "I'm still holding on" and is the very first time the past bothered me with her.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> Wait, I guess I missed something....what indicated that she could possibly be cheating?
> 
> He said she friended a guy with the same name as a past partner, but it was NOT the past partner.
> 
> What else indicated that she is possibly cheating?


Just the guy from work alone sitting by her at the party as a former fvck buddy is enough of a red flag in and of itself. Yes, the jim guy turned out to be nothing, which is good, but the guy at the party is the main reason I asked OP if he was sure. If he is, then he can shift to dealing with past issues that are affecting the present one.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> JB, I didn't trust her because when she would mention something from the past, the story would change. Timelines didn't add up. Stuff like that. When I would say something about it, she would say I was mixing things up or even making things up.
> 
> Of course she slept with people before we met. She was 34. I also slept with people. She doesn't know about most of them, but that's her choice. If she asked I would give as accurate an answer as possible. Most of my romps were over 15 years ago, so I might be foggy. The ones I was asking her about were within the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


Actually makes sense TBH...not sure how many will agree to it... her actions were not normal and reek of guilt.

To the people that say past doesn't matter, you are both right and wrong. Let's say she had a lot of ONS and casual sex before meeting OP(everyone has a number), at some point it does become relevant.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> I wasn't looking for anything about Jim specifically in the back up. Or anything specific at all actually. It was just coincidence that another guy named Jim was in there.
> 
> I've never said I was right to look or that I haven't put her in an extremely tough situation where there are no right answers for her to give. I know I screwed up bad. I'm not defending oor justifying anything I've done. The only thing I think I am right about is it was wrong of her to try to make me think I'm crazy and confused and making things up when I say, "wait this stor was different last time."



"gaslighting"


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Intheory, point taken. Thing is even though objectively my wife would "lose" some and "win" others, *in my heart she wins every single one.* I need to believe she could feel the same.


Well, IDon'tknow, your wife is a very fortunate woman.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> "gaslighting"


Exactly, which makes him FEEL crazy when he's not.

When stories are shifting around it will realistically leave him feeling unsettled and insecure because he is NOT secure with her. Even IF she's clean I would encourage the OP to address her faulty communication issues. She is causing unnecessary pain. I think SHE is the one who is insecure since she cannot speak the truth in confidence. I have heard nothing from this guy that is scary in his behavior. Thus I see this as her issue that she has to shift around and lie and he has a reasonable concern. He is seeking reasonable safety in this relationship. Think on it OP. You are not nutso in my perspective.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Anon1111 said:


> I think it's weird that she's facebook friends with old FBs. I would not be OK with that either. That is current behavior-- not in the past. The fact that she thought it was OK to lie about her past with this guy so she can re-establish some sort of connection with him (without your being suspicious) is also a problem.
> 
> If her past is truly in her past, then she will cut off any relationship with this guy if you have a problem with it.


My opinion on this subject might vary a little from the status quo here.

Yes, OP was in the wrong to dig in the first place. But hey, he's uncovered some inconsistencies. Never mind the lies (those can be justified).

I, too, would be massively upset that my wife friended somebody on FB, then lied (or at least covered up) who this person was. That is not in the past, this is in the present.

When I started getting serious with my now wife, I cleaned up my Facebook. No real exes on there, anyway, but all the same, enough single women, and some who had interest in me over the years, etc.

Around the time we were establishing boundaries with one another, I did mention (off the cuff, and not directed to her specifically) that one should not have exes or "singles" etc. on one's facebook when one is in a serious relationship. (common sense, I think, and something most people here agree with). Her friend list dwindled enough to be noticed over the next little while.

So even though I did not directly ask her, or even expect her to do anything, it appears she did. I have never asked her to remove somebody from her FB, nor would I, honestly. I trust her. My wife is... different that way. Her natural boundaries are not in sync with mine, however, over the years, they have inched ever closer to what mine are (which are normal, I think) with little or no direct expectations or words from me. The odd time, I have had to say "hey, what gives?", but she generally hasn't resisted. It's just not something she's ever really put much thought into, in terms of marital boundaries.

It doesn't appear as though your wife is learning, or trying to understand yours OR she's purposefully going against the grain (YOUR grain) because she resents your approach. Either way isn't good, and you guys have to get on the same page, and QUICK.

Frankly, you both are to blame here. I'm not convinced that had you NOT dug into her life that she still wouldn't be the same, that's the catch-22 with this. The irony is that perhaps it's better this way, regardless of how you went about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Anon1111 said:


> Lot's of women lie about this or rationalize why their number is really lower than it is. It's not unusual. Not sure if that helps you.


What's Your Number? (2011) - IMDb

It's human nature to hide our faults when we're dating. 

And human nature to scrabble to protect our image when we're confronted with lying (which is also human nature).

Maybe you haven't made it safe for her to tell the truth.

I made the 'mistake' of telling the truth about my past to my *EX*-fiance, and he threw it in my face every time he wanted leverage. By the time I met my husband, he got a mixture of none-of-your-business/lower number/silence. I learned MY lesson about men and their obsession with number of partners (and size).


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I just want to be clear. Jim that she friended on facebook was not the same Jim she has a past with.

I'm sure the inconsistencies have greatly magnified my RJ problems. In my mind if she will lie about one thing, she will lie about anything. How do I ever know if she WANTS to be with me or if I'm just the safe good guy she thinks won't hurt her again. I guess time will tell.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, there is a lot you can do here.

You two can partner together to create a safe environment for BOTH OF YOU. The responsibility of safety in this relationship is NOT all on you. She has contributed to the feelings of being unsafe. Therefore ALL of the behaviors on both sides that contributed to lack of safety need to be addressed.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Actually at first we were pretty open about our pasts. Or at least she could have been. I'm sure she doesn't feel that way now but at first she could have told me anything.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Then your past trauma created lack of safety for her. Work on that.

Then her following lies added to lack of safety for you. She needs to work on that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I Don't Know said:


> Actually at first we were pretty open about our pasts. Or at least she could have been. I'm sure she doesn't feel that way now but at first she could have told me anything.


Like I said, what happened that she doesn't feel safe telling you the truth? The main reason people lie is fear of the other person's reaction. You can do a lot to make it safe.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

She also needs to learn to speak the truth in the face of fear.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

turnera said:


> What's Your Number? (2011) - IMDb
> 
> It's human nature to hide our faults when we're dating.
> 
> ...


And this is why when we meet those who come forth with the truth, not wanting to hide but share who they are, where they have been... because they want to let us in...we see them as exceptional human beings...it's more on the rare side.. which is unfortunate...

If someone lies to me *one time.* I loose trust in their word...it's not something I forget. I also would grow cold with someone who gave me a "It's none of your business" attitude.. I would shriek from them...what I would seek in a relationship would never match with someone with that mindset...

*But on our ends...we have a place in not throwing these things back in another's face.. (that "safe place")...when someone hands us their vulnerability.. this is like a gift to be handled with care..
*
We do need discernment to know who we can go these places with ...and when to allow them in, after enough trust has been built and they've slowly opened up with us.. it takes time... 

Though I suspect in I don't know's situation , as in many... because she was hurt in the past by others, that behavior was learned to protect herself (as is often the case) .. so often the husband has to take on the baggage of the men before.. at that point she vows to never "open up" like that again. 

INstead, it should be more of a "person to person" basis .. not closing up totally.. 

I guess my point is.. if one hasn't found THIS with a lover..and they are one *who cares about such things*... this is an 
incompatibility issue.. they will need to work it out somehow..as it will cause hurt later on....and many suspicious , questioning to one's true motives.. 

If neither cares, they both have a lock & key on their past.. then they're compatible.. but one is not better over the other... or one wrong over the other.. people are just different and deeply value different things..


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't know what happened. She said 8 when her number is 16. That was the first night we met. She says we just met and it was none of my business. I said then you should have told me that. She said that would be rude. Lmao.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

meh

self protection

It's what women do to protect from men's obsession about numbers


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

She compounded his issues with deceit.

unless both are addressed

it will not improve.

I believe self protection can be done with truth, not lies and should be. THAT is healthy and right.

It would have been perfectly ok for her to say it was none of his business. That's the truth. If he struggled after that, that's on him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Blossom, once again, you are assuming all women are as strong-willed as you are. Many aren't. Many operate out of fear, self protection, and just 'stating your case in his face' can be traumatic. It's easy to say just get a backbone and do the right thing. Not so easy to incorporate that.

Is his girl a habitual liar? We have no idea. If she easily lies about all sorts of things, I'd say he has a problem. If she's lying only about her sexual past, I'd say give her a break because, in today's double-standard society, he's pushing her on something that's part of her personhood and likely engenders a fair sense of shame.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

If he doesn't expect her to get that backbone, she's not going to get it. I am not actually assuming she is strong willed. I can see she is not, but that doesn't excuse her behavioral choice.

Yes appropriate grace is needed unless it enables poor choices like chronic lying. I hope she is not chronically lying. That makes her unsafe for a relationship. Only the OP can state how she is on that front. 

hey, and I know it takes a long while to gain backbone. It took me years. I love it when I see other women have the right backbone at a much younger age than when I got it. 

Responsible relational behavior has got to start somewhere and many times it starts with one person stating the expectation of themselves and their partner.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> I don't know what happened. She said 8 when her number is 16. That was the first night we met. She says we just met and it was none of my business. I said then you should have told me that. She said that would be rude. Lmao.


You asked her number the night you met?
If i had just met a guy, and i liked him, and he asked me that, i might have done the same thing. You don't owe total transparency to someone you just met.

Just sayin'...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

My bottom line is folks, I don't let her off the hook just because she is a girl. They both bear equal responsibility to create a safe relationship. One that is honest and appropriately transparent. What happened before him is none of his business, but what happens now is totally his business unless his behavior forfeits him that right.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Blossom Leigh said:


> If he doesn't expect her to get that backbone, she's not going to get it. I am not actually assuming she is strong willed. I can see she is not, but that doesn't excuse her behavioral choice.
> 
> Yes appropriate grace is needed unless it enables poor choices like chronic lying. I hope she is not chronically lying. That makes her unsafe for a relationship. Only the OP can state how she is on that front.
> 
> ...


Yes, but she's not here getting advice. She's over there, feeling cornered, maybe mad, maybe ashamed, who knows? We can't give her advice. We can, however, show him what she might be feeling (assuming she's not a habitual liar), and show him a path that will let her feel safe to finally tell him the truth and stop this nonsense.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

She asked too. We had been talking for a few days before we met face to face. I just find it funny, literally, that she thinks MYOB is rude but pulling a number out of her butt is ok.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> Yes, but she's not here getting advice. She's over there, feeling cornered, maybe mad, maybe ashamed, who knows? We can't give her advice. We can, however, show him what she might be feeling (assuming she's not a habitual liar), and show him a path that will let her feel safe to finally tell him the truth and stop this nonsense.


I'm not convinced she feels cornered.

You know I agree with you to a point because I lived that.

But I don't see that here. I see reasonable enough concern because of choices she has made. It's up to him to keep that in check and then going forward cultivate a more honest, secure, healthy relationship with her partnership.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> She asked too. We had been talking for a few days before we met face to face. I just find it funny, literally, that she thinks MYOB is rude but pulling a number out of her butt is ok.



Double standard on her part.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> She asked too. We had been talking for a few days before we met face to face. I just find it funny, literally, that she thinks MYOB is rude but pulling a number out of her butt is ok.


I get what you're saying. But, from a female perspective, if we said MYOB to a guy we just met, we'd probably get written off as a b****.

Guys don't always have a pleasant reaction to a double digit number, there's a double standard around this. At that point, she didn't know you well enough to know how you might handle it. You put her in an uncomfortable position by asking, and she handled it poorly by lying. She may have been afraid you wouldn't talk to her anymore if she told the truth or refused to answer.

Just trying to offer a little perspective.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

Who asked first?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Yeah, I see your point. But if I didn't talk to her anymore because of her number or refusal to answer, I'm not the one anyway. If only we lived in a perfect world I guess.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't really remember, but it was probably me. We had been pretty open up to that point about sexual stuff though.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I live in the US. 

I'm not at all thinking I don't need to get over the RJ and not trying to blame shift. At the time I posted that, I thought she had been honest with me. Not that I should care in the first place.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I guess the real question is - is she habitually dishonest, or only dishonest around your RJ issues? 

If it's only related to the RJ issues, that could be worked out in couples counseling. If she's dishonest about everything, that's another issue entirely.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You must do your work OP

Don't take your eyes off that ball and put it on your wife. 

Yes, she needs her own work, but her work is not your priority. Your work is your priority.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

that.girl said:


> I guess the real question is - is she habitually dishonest, or only dishonest around your RJ issues?
> 
> If it's only related to the RJ issues, that could be worked out in couples counseling. If she's dishonest about everything, that's another issue entirely.


Yes, and I believe assessing that part accurately is important.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, I remember you now, I Don't Know. Yep. Go back and read that thread to get the advice you need. This is YOUR stuff to deal with. If my H was that insecure, I'd probably be cavalier with him, too. Just to piss him off.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

:rofl: See T!! no cowaring! You crack me up. I love it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

We still on this hamster wheel?

We get the "I'm pond scum" advice and answers from I Don't Know for a couple of pages, then a passive-agressive (and I HATE that term, but it fits) defense of his position that indicates very clearly that not only has he not yet found a fix for the problem, but doesn't deep down in his heart really think he bears most of the fault.

The fine folks at TAM are not up to the task on this one. If there is to be a solution, it will only come from the world of professional mental health care. 

Y'all can keep on trying, but I'm too old to keep running around in circles over a problem that never makes any progress. Good luck to you OP, but you are clearly not yet committed enough to fixing your problem to actually fix your problem. Maybe, like the drunk who has to hit bottom first, you'll have to lose this woman to understand your dilemma.

No one should probably be angry at you, you're sick, but you have to treat this like the disease that it is.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Sorry you feel that way, Cletus. I am under no delusion that I don't bear the brunt of responsibility here or that I don't need help with this. But, yes, it's nice to hear "hey, you know what, you're only 99% at fault."


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> Sorry you feel that way, Cletus. I am under no delusion that I don't bear the brunt of responsibility here or that I don't need help with this. But, yes, it's nice to hear "hey, you know what, you're only 99% at fault."


So stop looking for the 1% and start working IN EARNEST on the 99%. From way over here, it sure looks like the 1% is consuming most of your energy.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Here is the straight up bottom line. Your wife lied, that was wrong despite any reasonings to the contrary. You snooped into her private affairs. I don't see it that way. When two people agree to marriage then they unite as one. How does one keep secrets from oneself and to what end would such occur. A marriage requires each participant to be all in and keeping secrets is not all in. The argument of it being in the past and therefore irrelevant holds little water because an informed decision requires knowledge and any decision to do anything based on fiction can never be rock solid. You decided to marry based on the information you were presented and it turned out to be incomplete. However, even in light of this new information, you've stated here that nothing she has done is divorce worthy.

So then, what is the end game here? It seems to me that the whole issue boils down to her lying and your shaken trust, which you seem to be overemphasizing due, I assume, to your previous relationship(s). Your wife does need to realize that honesty in a relationship is crucial and should always be practiced and that lying is never acceptable.

You need to come to the realization that your wife has made a decision to be with you, regardless her past experiences. She is with you now and you must realize that the past is now irrelevant in regards to the future you two can have together. Carpe diem my friend or you may very well sacrifice your present and future over something that is over and done with.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I Don't Know said:


> How do I ever know if she WANTS to be with me or if I'm just the safe good guy she thinks won't hurt her again. I guess time will tell.


I felt (and still do, to some degree) this way, too.

It doesn't help that some of the advice I've been given here tend to sway that way, too (ie. she may be settling)

Thing is, even though I do sometimes feel that way, I just let it go and be happy with what I have. It's a struggle at times to get my brain thinking like that, but it does happen. And when it does, I'm happier, and so is she.

As I said earlier, my ex wife did not help at ALL in the "feeling worthy of someone" realm. She spent a great deal of our marriage making me feel exactly that - that I was not good enough. Even after it was over, I was made to feel this way, maybe on purpose, maybe not. I'll never know.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

alexm said:


> I felt (and still do, to some degree) this way, too.
> 
> It doesn't help that some of the advice I've been given here tend to sway that way, too (ie. she may be settling)


Of course she's settling. So did I. So did my wife. So did most of the people here. Hardly anyone hits the full MegaMillions jackpot and gets the every-box-checked spouse of his dreams. That's just not realistic. We find someone close enough to our ideal and round up. Which is a fancy way of saying that we settle on truncating away the remainder.

So, to paraphrase the popular children's book, "Everybody Settles".


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

IDK, how does your wife know that you didn't settle for her, and are regretting it every time you question her about her past?

How does your wife know that you aren't still in love with your ex, that the only reason you aren't still married to her is because she broke your heart, and that your heart is still so broken you can't find a way to fully love your now-wife?

It goes both ways. If you want your wife to fully love you, you have to be able to fully love her. Your wife could be just as confused as you are, and likely is, based on your behavior.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I can't say how she sees it, but here are some things I DIDN'T do...

Keep pictures of my ex on my kitchen counter.
Keep pictures of my ex on Facebook (never had any).
Keep old posts too or about my ex on Facebook (also never had any).
Have text chats with my ex up to a year after we separated.

Maybe those things don't tell her anything about whether I'm still hung up on my ex or not, but to me they would indicate not.

ETA:

But I do get what you're saying Nora. Many posters here have said I look like I'm looking for a way out. She could see it that way too.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Some of the things I've said in this thread recently are completely venting. I can do something most times to unwind my spring, but sometimes it has to come out. Today the deceptions were starting to bug me again even though I know the truth was not exactly an option for her. So I vented about it before it got to the point I vomited it out all over her.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Better to vent it here away from her and learn to get to the point where the pressure isn't as high that it HAS to come out than to dump it on her. Good move... make sure you take that to your counselor and keep moving in that direction. You want to be healthy and balanced. She cannot carry all of your emotional load. She isn't designed for that and visa versa. Learn to stand on both of your own feet instead of just one of yours and one of hers.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Look OP,I don't necessarily see things the way some of the others here do so maybe you'll get a different perspective from my tuppence worth of observations:


You have some degree of retrospective jealousy as do many men (many here too whether they admit it or not). That's not abnormal and not necessarily destructive if kept in check (which I believe you do).

Your wife does behave oddly in her hanging onto her past - I think it is highly inappropriate to hang on to this many "mementos" of her past "loves". So to start with she has given you reason to be concerned and frankly, pi$$ed off!

It is very common for both sexes to want to know about past partners etc and not uncommon for each to ask each other.

Lying about past numbers of sleeping partners is never good but is very very common - especially with women who have their own reasons for doing so. Provided there were no major omissions (see previous comments from others about nudity, drugs, prostitution etc) you have to accept that it is what it is. Incidentally, men tend to exaggerate their numbers to come across as more virile, experienced and attractive to females.

However continually lying when caught, even with proof in hand, can be even more disturbing to the husband lied to as it made him seem paranoid at first to think he was imagining things. However, this too happens quite a bit as the women concerned do not have any idea of the damage they are inflicting on their husbands and also on their relationship.

If that is all it is, lying for the sake of protecting their reputation or whatever, its not so bad. However, lying when combined with other worrying reddish flags such as still staying in contact with some of these, sitting with them at a dinner table without the husband knowing that they once used to f*ck, keeping their pictures, Facebook friending them and looking them up, can be even more concerning as it then starts to undermine the relationship in a more serious way and can be early indications of worse to come.

So, summary is you were well within your rights to snoop, be concerned, catch her out etc. However, the real issue is finding out if there is an element of discontent/dissatisfaction with the marriage and how serious this is and for how long.

Earlier you said we all settle and if you truly believe that is the case with you and your wife, life may be too short to spend your remaining hours, days, months, years just settling when it comes to love.

So maybe its time for a heart to heart with her and not just about the (now increasing) number of her past lovers but more to do with how she really feels and whats best going forward. Show her that you are genuinely concerned (which you must be to succeed) and want to know so that you can help, whatever that means. Get her to talk openly with you in safety and without any fear of repercussions.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Cletus said:


> Of course she's settling. So did I. So did my wife. So did most of the people here. Hardly anyone hits the full MegaMillions jackpot and gets the every-box-checked spouse of his dreams. That's just not realistic. We find someone close enough to our ideal and round up. Which is a fancy way of saying that we settle on truncating away the remainder.
> 
> So, to paraphrase the popular children's book, "Everybody Settles".


If you get right down to it, then yes, we all settle.

But I mean capital "S" settling. There's definitely a difference between "I love you, warts and all" and "I'm just with you because [fill in the blanks]"

On occasion, and it's dependant on personality type, one isn't always sure which one it is. Or it can waiver back and forth in your mind.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Of course she's settling. So did I. So did my wife. So did most of the people here. Hardly anyone hits the full MegaMillions jackpot and gets the every-box-checked spouse of his dreams. That's just not realistic. We find someone close enough to our ideal and round up. Which is a fancy way of saying that we settle on truncating away the remainder.
> 
> So, to paraphrase the popular children's book, "Everybody Settles".


I guess I'm weird because I never had a checklist. I never really believed people operated like this. That is, I realize many people have a list of criteria, but then they meet individuals who are much more than the sum of parts, so a list isn't so relevant.

Whenever I was with a woman, I was just like, I like her or I don't.

When you really like someone, it doesn't feel like settling.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> I guess I'm weird because I never had a checklist. I never really believed people operated like this. That is, I realize many people have a list of criteria, but then they meet individuals who are much more than the sum of parts, so a list isn't so relevant.
> 
> Whenever I was with a woman, I was just like, I like her or I don't.
> 
> When you really like someone, it doesn't feel like settling.


If the person has a major flaw/problem you have to work with/around (self-centeredness or inability to feel empathy, for example), it's really not as simple as "I like you or I don't." 

For me, if I can see that a person genuinely means well but missed the mark, I can deal with that. After 10 years with a true abuser, I don't see a lot of things to be as bad as others here do. I guess cause I already lived through the worst.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

On the other hand, "Gee, this guy really rocks my boat. When I'm with him me makes me feel like a princess. Everyone loves him. He can cook a mean lasagna. Yeah, he's only worked 7 months out of the last 5 years, but so what? We're gonna be great together!"


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Keep pictures of my ex on my kitchen counter.
Keep pictures of my ex on Facebook (never had any).
Keep old posts too or about my ex on Facebook (also never had any).
Have text chats with my ex up to a year after we separated."

These things only matter if they continued to occur after marriage. She probably still had a pair of panties from her time with her ex. So what?

What these events can tell you is that your wife is a sentimental person who doesn't try to wipe an ex out of existence by getting rid of anything that reminds her of him.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I guess you're right Blondilocks. And she doesn't have those things anymore. 

I've just never had a need to keep old ex stuff around. Not that was specifically about the ex anyway. So it was just a thing I don't understand. I never had a need for an ex once they were an ex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You aren't her.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I keep pictures with my exes. Those were very real times in my life, and I'd like to remember them. I don't keep them on display, but i still have them. I found out recently that my first boyfriend still has a school picture of me at fifteen. 

It's just a sentimental thing, it doesn't have to mean she wants those guys back. She just doesn't want to erase them entirely.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> Now of course the issue is my snooping and not that she lies to my face about it.


But of course 

Not having read the thread yet, and maybe its been answered, were you two dating at the time she was boning this guy?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I can relate to your story. Long story short, after a 13+ year marriage I got divorced and was divorced for about 4 years and we're now reconciled. He was married in that time, quickly after our divorce. He's now divorced again. We aren't married but we bought a house and multiple pets and moved back in together (with two kids). During our reconciliation we both vowed the past was in the past, we want to only move forward, he looked into my eyes and told me he wants to be best friends this time, etc. Soon after moving in, he started to change. One of the things that happened was he started to tease me, a LOT, about the men I had been with during our separation. He'd joke around and ask me questions, usually while drinking (but not drunk) about them. I had told him already that he's the best lover I've ever had, and that is the truth. But he's jokes about wanting to know my "number," wanting details about sex with other men, and yes, about size. Every single time I'd tell him I was very, very uncomfortable with the conversation because he was making me feel bad. Truthfully, I never emotionally disconnected from him and our marriage, so I did feel like it was cheating when I was with other people and even the fact that there was ONE person makes me feel guilty. That, and I made some poor choices in men, poor choices overall, and truthfully I don't think any of them measured up to him in many ways (in other words, I really settled and did not respect myself). His badgering me really just makes me feel even worse about myself. So anyway, one night I was drinking too (not drunk) and he was teasing me again and he was on the size thing again. He said ok let's compromise and tell me if there was anyone who was super small. I finally gave in and mentioned one person that I didn't even date and actually didn't sleep with, but we fooled around after a date. (He was shockingly small and I'd never experienced anything like that). HUGE MISTAKE. Commence the slvt shaming. Every time we argued after that, and we had a lot, he'd bring up me being with other men, and he'd taunt me with this tiny bit of information he had. During one of our arguments I said why are you acting this way when you were the one always joking about it and insisting you did not care?? (He told me it mattered not to him). He said, "of course I care!!!! I was only joking about it b/c it bothers me so much..." I was shocked and felt so betrayed. If my past bothered him so much WHY did he not tell me this before we bought this house and moved back in???? We still haven't had a detailed conversation about it and he knows my stance. However, things aren't good between us (you'd have to read my OP to hear all the deets), he is super distant, and now after reading this and other threads here, I wonder how much this is playing into things. 

My point in this whole story is you are making your wife feel like crap about herself by continuing to bring this up. She is with you now, and I highly doubt she's thinking of other men or comparing you! Especially if she has told you she is ashamed of the year prior to meeting you. Don't add to her shame if you love her. 

Let. it. go.

ETA: We married very young and I was very inexperienced. He was "technically" my first if you don't count BJ and that was only with one other person.


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