# Wife's past lies and deceit tearing me apart!



## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

Hello Everyone,

I joined this community to try and make sense of my feelings, to offload and to gain insight on how I can be a better person / husband and then hopefully help others. This post mainly relates to an issue in my marriage that I simply can not shake, so grab a coffee and I'll begin.

I am 34 yo, I have been with my wife since I was 18 and married for 10, we have a 6 yo son. Like every family we have had ups and downs but what has put more strain on our relationship is that our families do not get on and have no contact AT ALL. Over the years we have been on this roller coaster of a ride of being in love and then just co-existing and taking each other for granted.

Around 2007 I got addicted to computer gaming and would play a few hours a night, our extended family problems have always been at the forefront of our issues and I used online gaming and being part of a community as an escape / excuse to get away from my real life responsibilities / issues. For many years I blamed everyone else for how I was feeling (lonely, powerless, I was and still am subject to cohesive control - Not by wife, this may be a separate post) and it got to the point where I would come home from work and go straight upstairs on PC until early hours of the morning. I made numerous attempts to speak with my wife about my feelings and she would listen but no further action was taken so I kept falling back into my addictive behaviour making things worse.

In 2012 I worked at company and had a good group of colleagues including my brother in-law. One particular guy was more of a friend (Man-A) and everything was fine. He had text contact with all of us (me, brother in-law and wife). everything was fine and I trusted my wife 100% at this point, until one day in 2013 I was clearing out my PC and found old iPhone backups so I restored them to have a look for fun and when I turned it on it had restored some deleted texts from Man-A for conversations years back (this back up was from my wife's old phone).

What I found to begin with was just general chatting but over a period of 8 months the messages would be every single day asking how their day was going and talking about everything under the sun getting more and more flirty. Then the messages mostly from him got sexual in content after about 6 months, I may add that my wife briefly talked about our relationship in a negative way and they were both making jokes at my expense. Also he was talking about his sexual exploits and my wife always reacted jealously.

So I went to talk with her nice and calmly. At first she denied everything point blank and that he was just a friend and it was long ago and didn't remember anything. I believed her and left it at that but went and spoke to Man-A when he came round to our house one day, He said absolutely nothing apart from acting shocked, left our house and I have never heard from him since 2013, I mean if it was just flirting surely he would have apologised and not throw away 6 year friendship. A few months ago out of absolute nowhere a small niggle started to grow and I have no idea were it came from, all my old feelings of suspicion flood back into me. When I say flood its like every emotion up to that point pretty much paralysed me with fear, anxiety etc to the point where I had an exhaust hose pipe from my van in the window as I could't function. I have no idea why I started to think like that.

I spoke to my wife again and after some talking she admitted what she knew what she was doing and was craving the attention but nothing had happened physically, but there was guilt written all over her face after I probed deeper, things did start to get more heated now as I felt she had lied and betrayed me as the text message content suggested otherwise and the fact she deleted all his messages and never told me, and too this day I would't have known had I not looked at the old backups. The trouble is my gut tells me she is not telling me the whole truth as you can imagine I have a sick feeling in my stomach all the time. She still denies any physically contact, and from what I can gather reading posts on here that is a common theme.

But now where she works is mostly females, but recently these two males have just joined one older and one around her age, she talks normally about the older one but the one around her age she doesn't really mention and when she does its always negative and she seems like she is very careful what she says and avoids all conversation about him I have also picked up on the way she speaks and looks at me almost gauging my reaction - hope that makes sense, The effect of her lies and hiding stuff from me is that now my trust has been smashed and I have become very paranoid because I know she is capable of those things now and I hate feeling like this.

I don't want to keep going on about the past, I want to heal and leave it were it belongs but I can't until I know all the details (Which I doubt I will get). I am very ashamed of myself for neglecting her but I would never even entertain another women (and I have had a few chances but refused point blank everyone of them) but I don't know how to get the truth or live without knowing.

I have since given up computer gaming, and initially focused on trying to make myself happy as I thought if I can do that then she and my son will then be happy. But what I have since found out is that if I put all my effort into making my wife and son happy THAT is what makes me happy. We have really connected since I have starting being a 'proper' husband but I am a very emotional person underneath my "tough man" persona but I can't live the rest of my life feeling sick in my stomach and the mental issues I'm starting to suffer with because of these niggles, its just who I am and I won't be able to let go until I know for sure.

Life is full of chaos and is what makes it interesting, I know there no black and white in matters of the heart but it would very much appreciated any insightful wisdom regarding how I can control my emotions and move forward. I hurt like hell that I made her feel that way and the way she made me feel in her conversations with Man-A.

Thank you for reading and letting me off-load all this. I am open to discussion and criticism as I want to understand the issues underneath and sort myself out as it is getting too much to cope with. It may seem a small issue at hand but trust is the only thing that matters to me and when that breaks it wrecks all kinds of havoc. I have an overwhelming urge to track her phone, messages and emails but I think once I get into that territory its pretty much done for anyway.

I am struggling that she deleted all the text messages and then lied, if they were just innocent flirting then fair enough but my gut tells this goes deeper, it has also made me see a side of her of didn't think she had, we all think we married a good 'un. I keep going on a roller coaster of emotion of i'm ok then I'm not. I don't want to keep having these conversations for fear of her getting sick and ending it but at the same I want to gather my thoughts and have one last talk about it.

Thank you again for reading and I hope I can help others in the future once I figure out what to do with myself and any outcomes learned.

Anyway back up my Munro


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So, a few things you can try. Since you don't believe her, and I'm sure she knows this, ask her to do a polygraph. I know many don't believe, but you may get a "parking lot confession" before she goes in.
Also, if you can get her new phone, you can use software to get any deleted texts (the prob is if this guy has moved away since 2013, may not find much from him, but MAY find stuff from the new guy). Folks here can guide you for that.

Additionally: take care of yourself (eating, work out - get in great shape, pursue you own outside interests (NOT computer gaming) sleep, etc.), stay very involved with your child.

"I have an overwhelming urge to track her phone, messages and emails but I think once I get into that territory its pretty much done for anyway."
Not true -- you need to get something to allay your fears. She hasn't been trustworthy and I think that maybe SHE isn't who you really think she is. You may view her in one way, but who she REALLY is may be hidden from you. DO the investigation -- your gut is telling you this. Don't have to do that for the rest of your life, but you may want to dig a bit to allay your fears.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Although you weren't being a great husband with your gaming, her cheating, whether emotionally or physically, is not excusable.

You are now trying to deal with the fact that you rugswept this six years ago.

It is very hard to get concrete evidence this far out, you would have to do some serious recon.

Cheaters lie, which you've experienced, so there is no way she is going to tell you the truth if she did go further than what she has admitted.

Maybe you should let us analyze some of the more difficult texts you recovered to give you our opinion of what was happening.

If you are serious about digging further into the history of what happened, do not continue to repeatedly confront her, that won't help. Most direct way would be to contact Man-A directly again or any one else that may have known about what happened.

Did you run fonelab on the phone backup to get all the deleted correspondence? Make sure you keep a copy of those backups somewhere, she may try to delete them.

Has she been in contact with Man A since 2013?


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So, a few things you can try. Since you don't believe her, and I'm sure she knows this, ask her to do a polygraph. I know many don't believe, but you may get a "parking lot confession" before she goes in.
> Also, if you can get her new phone, you can use software to get any deleted texts (the prob is if this guy has moved away since 2013, may not find much from him, but MAY find stuff from the new guy). Folks here can guide you for that.
> 
> Additionally: take care of yourself (eating, work out - get in great shape, pursue you own outside interests (NOT computer gaming) sleep, etc.), stay very involved with your child.
> ...


Thank you for the reply, I live in the UK so I will have to look into polygraph testing in this country.

I have let myself go (I used to do martial arts and was lean and mean) now I am overweight so already made a start getting back into shape and trying to get quality sleep. Took my son for a nice hot chocolate today at a local cafe and watched trains go past as his school is closed for two days so a big check on that.

Thank you also for the reassurance that acting on my gut to investigate is the proper course of actions and not to looked at being sneaky and will start to dig a bit. The problem at the moment is that she knows something is up with me (I start a new job in a few weeks which is making my anxious so at least I'm not 100% lie to her about what is REALLY bothering me).


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

re16 said:


> Although you weren't being a great husband with your gaming, her cheating, whether emotionally or physically, is not excusable.
> 
> You are now trying to deal with the fact that you rugswept this six years ago.
> 
> ...


I still have the original backup (multiple) of her phone from 2012 - 2013. I do not plan to talk to her until I have figured out exactly what to say to hopefully have one final talk no matter the outcome.

Man-A still lives within the area and our FB friends circle overlap so tracking down won't be an issue. The main issue is he won't talk to me at all. I will try again though.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Ben Hope said:


> I still have the original backup (multiple) of her phone from 2012 - 2013. I do not plan to talk to her until I have figured out exactly what to say to hopefully have one final talk no matter the outcome.
> 
> Man-A still lives within the area and our FB friends circle overlap so tracking down won't be an issue. The main issue is he won't talk to me at all. I will try again though.


If he was an affair partner and is still around, it could very well be that the relationship went underground when you confronted them.

Work on yourself first, be a good dad, and then investigate.

A quick check of phone bills, facebook messages, current phone is definetly in order.

Typically, someone that does this kind of thing doesn't just do it once and it never happens again, that is if it ever ended between them.


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

Trust your gut, it sounds like it’s screaming at you!


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

Some of the texts:

Wife - "haha you dirty! Jus suck up on th morning? Didn't mention you  fingers crossed!!! Uh oh!! Lol! Sorry t bug u [MAN-A]!! Night night!! "

Wife - "Lol ! Sorry mr [MAN-A]! [ME] sez-who u on th fone 2? Jus kinda ignore it! Lols! Sorryt bug u! :-("

Wife - "Heya-how r ya? How did today go?? Bin thinkin of you 2day! Xx"

Man-A "Lol think you should leave your sucking till he's in a better mood..can never get a good boner when you're grumpy...haha"

Also been reading her texts to me, there are all lovey dovey and would make anyone think there is nothing wrong.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

My thoughts Been, is she did cheat on you and possibly still in contact with him. ManA left because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and wasn't man enough to get a a$$, kicking from you. Marriage is 50/50 but Cheating is 100% her!! 

And the reason your gut is screaming again is the younger dude who hangs with the women, not the older one is the one she has interest in. But she see's hii everyday so this may be the reason she is playing it cool. But your Cheating wife is getting good at her lying and not even mentioning him at all. Why deniability! As not to tip her hand. As it was said already do not confront until you got what you need to call it.

And no it's not as easy as if your think you stoop to tracking and Email watching it will be only for a short time. You see cheaters need the dopamine fix ( to live in the FOG) of luve.

And do get phonlab and Keylogger if you use a computer at home also a ...

Sony ICD-PX470 Stereo Digital Voice Recorder with Built-in USB Voice Recorder maybe two or three, and put them in location your wife spends most of her time. Does she guard her phone and is it attached to her always? If not maybe she has a 2nd phone called a burner phone.

Sorry your here Ben, but your only wrong if you did nothing to safe guard your marriage. And you need answers and do what you need to do to get them.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And probably the lovey dovey text to you are to throw you off the scent. Nothing more and you know it. Has she tried to correct any of her past for texting manA ? No l thought not, because if she had you would not be here. So that's out of the way. It's time to make your stand.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, NVM.

What made you react again?

Have you checked her new phone?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Ben Hope said:


> *Some of the texts:
> 
> Wife - "haha you dirty! Jus suck up on th morning? Didn't mention you  fingers crossed!!! Uh oh!! Lol! Sorry t bug u [MAN-A]!! Night night!! "
> 
> ...


*With these texts, you've literally caught her red-handed!

Speaks sheer volumes!*


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.

I'm not going to point a finger or play the blame game but I'll just state the following.


A woman left emotionally abandoned will eventually find herself receptive to attention provided elsewhere ..... like it or not.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> A woman left emotionally abandoned will eventually find herself receptive to attention provided elsewhere ..... like it or not.


Doesn't mean they will cheat though. Plenty of women are unhappy in their marriage they still don't cheat. Cheating is reflective of ones character nothing else. If it was outside forces everyone would do it. They don't.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Ben, if your description is accurate, it's a full-blown PA.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Ben, if your description is accurate, it's a full-blown PA.


Possibly it was.

Polygraph will be helpful. 

Ben, just Google polygraph association UK and search for members in your area.


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> And probably the lovey dovey text to you are to throw you off the scent. Nothing more and you know it. Has she tried to correct any of her past for texting manA ? No l thought not, because if she had you would not be here. So that's out of the way. It's time to make your stand.


If I'm being honest I do know deep down the truth, I just want to hear it from her so I can move on.


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> And probably the lovey dovey text to you are to throw you off the scent. Nothing more and you know it. Has she tried to correct any of her past for texting manA ? No l thought not, because if she had you would not be here. So that's out of the way. It's time to make your stand.





Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.
> 
> I'm not going to point a finger or play the blame game but I'll just state the following.
> 
> ...


I understand what your saying and agree with you. But on the same hand I know my boundaries and I tried to talk many many times but she never once alerted to the fact she was feeling like that. From her messages and chats through the years I really thought everything was ok. It wasn't (isn't) all bad we have had amazing date nights and I have been really trying to understand her, I know she hates cleaning up after work so I get home and make sure everything has been done and then some nights run her a bath. Even though I played a lot of games I didn't abandon her completely.


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, NVM.
> 
> What made you react again?
> 
> Have you checked her new phone?


I have absolutely no idea, woke up one night around 3am and boom, all came back. I guess I never dealt with it properly.

I checked her phone and again with fonelab. Nothing. Everything is squeaky clean. So probably another account somewhere I don't know about.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

Read my thread. Do a poly. Sounds like this is a good bit worse than my situation, but timeframe is similar. Lots of time has passed- do a poly whether you believe in them or not. It's not about the science, it's about the confession that often is coaxed. 

Just reading between the lines here, it's at least a 50-50 shot that it was a PA. 

Hang in there- you have support here.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Ben Hope said:


> If I'm being honest I do know deep down the truth, I just want to hear it from her so I can move on.


move on to what ??????


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I wanted to throw in something I read on another site yesterday. His DDay was August 1st of this year.



> To date, I am still amazed at the reluctance of so many suffering to go right for the cure which is not necessarily divorce or reconciliation but a polygraph. Days, months, weeks, and even years are wasted trying to find the answers to simple questions.
> 
> Just my opinion, but I think it is sometimes a form of denial and clinging to what the folks here call"hopium". If you do a polygraph and get the truth then you have to make a decision. If you are not sure its easier to kick the can down the road.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Ben Hope said:


> I understand what your saying and agree with you. But on the same hand I know my boundaries and I tried to talk many many times but she never once alerted to the fact she was feeling like that. From her messages and chats through the years I really thought everything was ok. It wasn't (isn't) all bad we have had amazing date nights and I have been really trying to understand her, I know she hates cleaning up after work so I get home and make sure everything has been done and then some nights run her a bath. Even though I played a lot of games I didn't abandon her completely.


Cheaters, very seldom show that they cheat they seek the desire of excitement and allure. And generally the relationship of marriage they are in improves why because they are happy it's as simple as that. Quit being that nice guy all the time.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

First off, you are a fool if you think OM1 will say anything to you about anything. 

Second off, your wife was sleeping with this guy and EVERYONE knows it, you included. 

Third off, she is lying and based on her behavior, I am betting that this is not the only time. 

But I want to talk to you, regardless of what you do with your wife... 

Your description of yourself, besides being immature, sounds like you really struggle with anxiety and depression. 

Dude, you have to fix that, like yesterday, whether you stay with your wife or not.

Are you seeing that???


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

Tilted 1 said:


> Cheaters, very seldom show that they cheat they seek the desire of excitement and allure. And generally the relationship of marriage they are in improves why because they are happy it's as simple as that. Quit being that nice guy all the time.


Your last sentence is spot on

OP: Please read "Not Just Friends" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy". You need a better understanding of things from both of these perspectives, based on what you've told us.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And it's still a girlish thinking to talk kind of bad someone because you don't want any one to know they like them. Just something to think about. And the reason l keep hammering this is for you to know other things happen.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sorry but this jumped out at me.

Sounds like your wife got pregnant around the time that Man-A was in her life. When you asked him about the texting, he ran.

DNA your son. 

Not sure if they are available in the UK, but if they are, get it done. All it takes is a quick & painless swap from you and from him.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

@TDSC60 

I saw this as well. Hopefully a coincidence, but certainly worth confirming. 

The OM's actions are quite damning at this point...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

@Ben Hope ...... check out the advice from @Music_Man . Not only has he been where you are but also navigated it. Read his thread.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

@Ben Hope 

You need to decide what you want out of this. If you want to reconcile, you need to be 100% sure of exactly what it is you are forgiving and reconciling.

Ask yourself the following:

Is she genuinely remorseful, does she own what she did?

Does she understand how and why this happened?

Is she willing to go to IC and MC?

If any of these answers come back as "no", then you have to decide if this is worth it or not, but only you can decide this. However, most here- including myself- will strongly discourage reconciliation with a less than fully repentant wayward. You are only opening yourself to more heartache, and you've basically given her a hall pass. She's likely never to fully respect you either. 

Above all- get yourself some counseling ASAP. And if you have the means, get out of the house for a period of time, at least a week, and go no-contact on her. Sounds like she needs a little shock and awe. The alone time will do wonders for you as well.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm a bit confused here, man.

Are you rethinking your reconciliation from whatever happened in 2012 that you never resolved?

Or are you worried she's doing something now?

I think you really need to define what your problem is here. If it's the rug sweeping from 2012, focus on that - and my advice is to first start with some introspection in your own willingness to reconcile without actually dealing with it.

Then, once you're clear with yourself, you can then turn your attention to your marriage and your wife, and we can better help you.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Ben Hope said:


> I have absolutely no idea, woke up one night around 3am and boom, all came back. I guess I never dealt with it properly.
> 
> I checked her phone and again with fonelab. Nothing. Everything is squeaky clean. So probably another account somewhere I don't know about.


It can come back to haunt you 5,10, 15 years later and then you wasted all that time. This is what happens if you don't deal with it initially.

If you know it was a PA, why not just tell you know and that you are ending the relationship.

If you aren't sure and are going to investigate, have you thoroughly looked for a burner phone? Check everywhere, especially her car. Can you see devices that have logged onto your wifi?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

re16 said:


> If you aren't sure and are going to investigate, have you thoroughly looked for a burner phone? Check everywhere, especially her car. Can you see devices that have logged onto your wifi?


Think he's gone down that road without results. What is it that makes OP's situations different than others, where the VAR has been recommended? And/or a GPS tracker for the car? If there's anything still going on, these would be likely to expose it to the light of day.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Marduk said:


> I'm a bit confused here, man.
> 
> Are you rethinking your reconciliation from whatever happened in 2012 that you never resolved?
> 
> ...


 Sounded to me like it was both.

Also sounds like to me she has honed her craft and thinks she has OP in the weeds. Fortunately, he doesn't seem to be as dumb as she thinks he is.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Sounded to me like it was both.
> 
> Also sounds like to me she has honed her craft and thinks she has OP in the weeds. Fortunately, he doesn't seem to be as dumb as she thinks he is.


Not sure. He should be clear with himself what the problem is.

He starts off with what sounds to me like an unresolved situation from 2012, then a current situation where he's looked for evidence but not found it.

Although I'm confused about the texts he's posted - if they were from the 2012 era, or current. If it's current, then my advice would be to focus on the current problem and use the 2012 stuff as an indicator of someone that is serially crossing boundaries, and I'd just be out. 

If those texts are from back then, then it really sounds like an unresolved EA or PA in 2012, that he helped rug sweep away, and is now biting him in the ass.

Maybe I'm misreading it?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.
> 
> I'm not going to point a finger or play the blame game but I'll just state the following.
> 
> ...


This woman, and I'm sure many others as well, have been left emotionally abandoned off and on for many years, sometimes _for_ years, and I have never been "receptive to attention provided elsewhere." Men have flirted, and I am not impressed or interested in the least. In fact, since I have an obvious wedding ring on my finger, I'm insulted that they would think I don't have character and would flirt or whatever with them. Instead of looking for attention elsewhere I've done everything I can to work on myself and on my marriage.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Adelais said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.
> ...


Fair enough !!!!!


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Good suggestion to DNA your kid if she had a secret relationship with him at the time she got pregnant. It would also explain the OM disappearing (to avoid responsibility if he is the father).

Lot's of married folks are unhappy but they don't cheat. Cheating is an option she chose among other solutions.

It doesn't matter how old the flirty suggestive texts were/are, because it rarely works to pretend it didn't happen and move on.

The trauma of the betrayal ultimately resurfaces (unexpectedly due to some slight trigger). In this case, in view of her past behavior, you 'feel' something is off about the way she doesn't talk about the young guy at work. It's not unusual for the OM to be portrayed in negative terms to avoid drawing your attention. 

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife failed you - and sweeping it under the rug didn't restore trust. Your wife destroyed your trust and should be willing to do whatever it takes to restore trust. Including a polygraph test.

It doesn't matter if you personally believe that a polygraph is 100% reliable - what's important is that your wife believes that you will accept the outcome of the test. Why? because the certainty of facing the polygraph test encourages full disclosure.

It's not likely your wife will cave in easily and take a polygraph test. Your wife needs to believe that you will divorce her rather than continue to live without the truth (i.e., and the trust that she destroyed).


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Ben, serve her with D papers. That often wakes them up.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

If you serve. Mean it, otherwise you'll be in a weaker position.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

re16 said:


> If you aren't sure and are going to investigate, have you thoroughly looked for a burner phone? Check everywhere, especially her car. Can you see devices that have logged onto your wifi?


That's a great idea!! Good job.


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## Ben Hope (Nov 18, 2019)

Sorry for radio silence, I was partly away and partly deep in PI mode. Ok, what I have discovered is I don't think there is a burner phone. We share the same car and I have torn apart our house and found nothing. She has given me all access to her phone (Backed it up and restored for deleted texts). we share an iOS account so I have always been able to track her and her me for years. I have been monitoring our home network traffic / devices and nothing untoward yet (She is not good with PC's and doesn't even know what a VPN is or that I can track).

Thank you again for all your responses, I have read then all (big thanks to @Music_Man) and I don't think there is much left to say. So after careful thought about what it is I am feeling I have concluded that my issue is with not dealing with it at the time so I need closure. For anyone else lurking this is what I am going to do, Thanks to all here:

1) Focus on myself first, start working out to get into shape which also releases chemicals to help with depression so I have been told. I have been to the doc today and got a short course of beta-blockers for anxiety (non-addictive). Hopefully this will lead to better sleep. I have made an app to see IC to maybe get to more of the root issues like why I was willing to sweep it under the rug etc (will report back in due course).

2) I am going to sit the W down and tell her that my main issue is that because she lied and deceived me I don't believe her that it was just an EA. I will demand a Polygraph test, not to catch her out (this is important) but to confirm that she is telling me the truth it was just an EA. IF she does go ahead and pass then I believe we can then R fully and I will guard my marriage properly from now and NOT take for granted that she will always be there.

3) In the mean time ordered a DNA kit, thank you for pointing this out but i feel even sicker now. If either 2 or 3 come back negative D papers for sure.

I think this series of steps is the correct way as I am just looking for peace of mind at the end of the day. I am learned a big life lesson this past few weeks for sure.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Just stay strong,and do what you planned. Your plan is good.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

Hang in there- whatever happens, you can and will come out stronger on the other side. Keep us posted, and continue to take care of yourself.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Ben Hope said:


> 1) Focus on myself first, start working out to get into shape which also releases chemicals to help with depression so I have been told.


It seemed to help me.

I think you have a viable plan - best of luck.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Sorry but this jumped out at me.
> 
> Sounds like your wife got pregnant around the time that Man-A was in her life. When you asked him about the texting, he ran.
> 
> ...


There are legal complications with getting the DNA of a child in the UK.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> There are legal complications with getting the DNA of a child in the UK.


I did not know that.

What are the complications?

Are at-home DNA test kits not legal?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Ben Hope said:


> Sorry for radio silence, I was partly away and partly deep in PI mode. Ok, what I have discovered is I don't think there is a burner phone. We share the same car and I have torn apart our house and found nothing. She has given me all access to her phone (Backed it up and restored for deleted texts). we share an iOS account so I have always been able to track her and her me for years. I have been monitoring our home network traffic / devices and nothing untoward yet (She is not good with PC's and doesn't even know what a VPN is or that I can track).
> 
> Thank you again for all your responses, I have read then all (big thanks to @Music_Man) and I don't think there is much left to say. So after careful thought about what it is I am feeling I have concluded that my issue is with not dealing with it at the time so I need closure. For anyone else lurking this is what I am going to do, Thanks to all here:
> 
> 1) Focus on myself first, start working out to get into shape which also releases chemicals to help with depression so I have been told. I have been to the doc today and got a short course of beta-blockers for anxiety (non-addictive). Hopefully this will lead to better sleep. I have made an app to see IC to maybe get to more of the root issues like why I was willing to sweep it under the rug etc (will report back in due course).


Always a good step.



> 2) I am going to sit the W down and tell her that my main issue is that because she lied and deceived me I don't believe her that it was just an EA. I will demand a Polygraph test, not to catch her out (this is important) but to confirm that she is telling me the truth it was just an EA. IF she does go ahead and pass then I believe we can then R fully and I will guard my marriage properly from now and NOT take for granted that she will always be there.


I do not recommend polygraphs for the following reasons:

- they are unreliable. meaning, even if she passes, you haven't really 'proved' anything, and may just go right back to your anxiety and mistrust.
- they demonstrate a fundamental lack of trust in the relationship, which basically means that if you need a poly to trust your wife, the marriage is already over.
- they are really only good for 'parking lot confessions'... which usually mean the marriage is over anyway.



> 3) In the mean time ordered a DNA kit, thank you for pointing this out but i feel even sicker now. If either 2 or 3 come back negative D papers for sure.


This is good to know if the child is yours. But all it can do is provide evidence for a physical affair, not the lack of one. In other words, if the kid comes back as yours, you don't really know anything more than you already do, affair-wise.



> I think this series of steps is the correct way as I am just looking for peace of mind at the end of the day. I am learned a big life lesson this past few weeks for sure.


I think you're in a spot where your marriage is over. If I were willing to go this far, I'd have walked away far before this point. You're policing your wife, you're all magnum PI and in full on interrogation mode. So what's here to save? How much of this is you putting you both through a bunch of trauma and conflict... that means even if there was no PA, you should both walk away anyway?

I don't think you're on a good path here at all, man. Just go if this is where you're at.

I say that as a guy that's been there.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Getting a parking lot confession is well worth it if it works. You'll never get that confession if you don't try it.

This process of investigating and taking all these steps now (poly / DNA / IC) is to create a sense of confidence that you believe you have the truth about what happened. This is the only way you can move forward and know this won't rear its head again like it has this time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I did not know that.
> 
> What are the complications?
> 
> Are at-home DNA test kits not legal?


Apparently both parents must agree to the test.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ben Hope said:


> I have been to the doc today and got a short course of beta-blockers for anxiety (non-addictive). Hopefully this will lead to better sleep.


Check out 5-HTP. It is an amino acid, which means it is a chemical your body needs to ingest. We cannot live without eating amino acids (our bodies don't manufacture them). Studies show 5-HTP can be as effective as Rx anti-depressants. It makes the neurotransmitters your brain needs to be in proper balance. 5-HTP can also be effective for anxiety.

50 mg mid afternoon, another 50 mg mid evening. It could take a few days to start feeling better, though many people feel better quickly. You can double the dose but not more.

Note that you should not take this along with Rx meds except with your doc's approval. If you aren't on Rx meds you can try it safely yourself.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently both parents must agree to the test.


Shouldn't be a problem in this case, right? After all, she _knows_ he's the father so why would she have an issue with such an easy, inexpensive method of proving herself?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

re16 said:


> Getting a parking lot confession is well worth it if it works. You'll never get that confession if you don't try it.
> 
> This process of investigating and taking all these steps now (poly / DNA / IC) is to create a sense of confidence that you believe you have the truth about what happened. This is the only way you can move forward and know this won't rear its head again like it has this time.


I guess what I'm saying is all the current path he's following does is lead to divorce and pain.

So just divorce with less pain.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Marduk said:


> I guess what I'm saying is all the current path he's following does is lead to divorce and pain.
> 
> So just divorce with less pain.


Even just on TAM this is not always true. There are people four, five and more years longer who are in reconciliation and still married.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Marduk said:


> I guess what I'm saying is all the current path he's following does is lead to divorce and pain.
> 
> So just divorce with less pain.


If he finds something, yes you are right, and we're only telling him to proceed with poly / dna / investigations because we think he very well may find something.

Going through the investigation steps does two things for him though:

1. If he divorces, he knows specifically why. Just divorcing now he might end up regretting throwing it all away without concrete evidence. Its hard to end a marriage on a strong hunch that more happened.

2. If he finds nothing, he can decide the past history is close to how it was described and he moves forward with the relationship with enough confidence that it doesn't rear its head like this again. A long path to end a rugsweep, but nevertheless, it would no longer be a rugsweep.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

re16 said:


> If he finds something, yes you are right, and we're only telling him to proceed with poly / dna / investigations because we think he very well may find something.
> 
> Going through the investigation steps does two things for him though:
> 
> 1. If he divorces, he knows specifically why. Just divorcing now he might end up regretting throwing it all away without concrete evidence. Its hard to end a marriage on a strong hunch that more happened.


He already knows why. He already has ample evidence to call the ball and decide to reconcile or not.

Squeezing a stone just yields you a sore hand.



> 2. If he finds nothing, he can decide the past history is close to how it was described and he moves forward with the relationship with enough confidence that it doesn't rear its head like this again. A long path to end a rugsweep, but nevertheless, it would no longer be a rugsweep.


My point is that _all_ of his investigations seek to incriminate, not find her innocent. They cannot find her innocent, they can only find her guilty. And they all say "I have no trust in you whatsoever." Which maybe is right, but if it is right, then is the relationship not already dead?

He is the one that decided to reconcile and sweep this under the rug back when it happened.

If his intention is to reconcile, then his actions should at least balance the two. If his intention is to find her guilty, then he has already done so, and he should just leave.

I'll say no more in the matter save this to OP:

If she passes all these "tests" - none of which will actually logically declare her innocence - what then? Sweep this under the rug - again? For you to pull back out years down the line when you realize that she could pass a polygraph and the child could be yours, and she still could have had sex with him? What will she think of you if she does pass everything? Of your relationship? 

When will it be over?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Marduk said:


> My point is that _all_ of his investigations seek to incriminate, not find her innocent. They cannot find her innocent, they can only find her guilty. And they all say "I have no trust in you whatsoever." Which maybe is right, but if it is right, then is the relationship not already dead?
> ?


I have no doubt you would divorce in this situation, and I probably would have also, at the very moment I found the flirty texts, but people have different tolerances for say flirty texts vs EA vs PA vs one night stand vs claiming to love someone else. Sometimes people on here even reconcile after known and admitted to PA.

If he divorces now, he gets to say "I am divorcing you because you sent flirty texts to another guy 6 years ago, while I had emotionally abandoned you at that time, and even though we had kids since then and have had a much better relationship since that time". To me, that doesn't seem like a bulletproof argument for just divorce and don't investigate.

Seems like their relationship has a chance if she passes the investigations. Yea - he will waste a week of time doing these investigations. If she doesn't pass, obviously divorce and he just wasted six years.

I will add to your point though, him showing her such a lack of trust may cause her to think the relationship is dead, even if she passes, and he may end up divorced anyway.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

re16 said:


> I have no doubt you would divorce in this situation, and I probably would have also, at the very moment I found the flirty texts, but people have different tolerances for say flirty texts vs EA vs PA vs one night stand vs claiming to love someone else. Sometimes people on here even reconcile after known and admitted to PA.
> 
> If he divorces now, he gets to say "I am divorcing you because you sent flirty texts to another guy 6 years ago, while I had emotionally abandoned you at that time, and even though we had kids since then and have had a much better relationship since that time". To me, that doesn't seem like a bulletproof argument for just divorce and don't investigate.
> 
> ...


Yes, although I also think that given his amount of policing and PI work years down the line leads me to believe that even if she passes the tests and stays... he'll do the same thing again a few years down the line, about the same events.

Because they won't actually prove her innocence. Because nothing can. He can either live with that and decide to trust her, or he can't. He needs to stop waffling around about it and decide what he's going to do.

Policing and PI work give the illusion of control and safety, not the reality of control and safety. His time to do that PI work was when it happened, not now. His time to make a decision to reconcile or not was back then - and he made it. He has every right to change his mind about it, but not to make her jump through hoops that won't work in the process, forever.

The only security he's ever going to find is in himself and in his decision making. He's seeking security in the wrong place, and he knows everything he needs to know already. He can seek to validate that decision with more evidence, but all he's seeking here is validation that the decision to leave her is the right one.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Policing and PI work give the illusion of control and safety, not the reality of control and safety. His time to do that PI work was when it happened, not now. His time to make a decision to reconcile or not was back then - and he made it. He has every right to change his mind about it, but not to make her jump through hoops that won't work in the process, forever.


If someone rugswept a situation, I think it is better to analyze it later than simply not analyze it all.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

MattMatt, you mentioned that both parents need to approve a child being DNA’d.

First, if wife says no, then I think we know why.

Second, can’t he get two kits from Ancestry, one for him and one for the child? I would suggest dad do it a few weeks prior, so his formation can get fully into their database. Then send the child’s kit in. Hopefully the child’s report will mention they have a match to his biological father.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kamstel said:


> MattMatt, you mentioned that both parents need to approve a child being DNA’d.
> 
> First, if wife says no, then I think we know why.
> 
> Second, can’t he get two kits from Ancestry, one for him and one for the child? I would suggest dad do it a few weeks prior, so his formation can get fully into their database. Then send the child’s kit in. Hopefully the child’s report will mention they have a match to his biological father.


Maybe if he framed it as a lovely Christmas gift for the entire family?

I think he said his wife is OK with a DNA test, so let's see what happens.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

So you could double velcro a voice activated recorder (a VAR) under the front seat of your car and see if she is talking to anyone or mentions it to a friend.

Here you can buy them cheaply at Walmart, don't know about the UK.

At some point if you feel like your getting nothing you can raise the topic, let it get a little heated and see if she off loads to on anyone on the VAR.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Quit wasting time...Call an attorney.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.
> 
> I'm not going to point a finger or play the blame game but I'll just state the following.
> 
> ...


This is soooooooooo true. 

Happened to me.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes people that don't tend to their garden will complain when it grows weeds.
> 
> I'm not going to point a finger or play the blame game but I'll just state the following.
> 
> ...


I disagree just a bit....
A woman left without a man who she truly desires, will find herself receptive to attention provided elsewhere.
"emotionally abandoned"...can mean a million different things to a million women.
If you are not a viable option she will find one, if her options are still a plenty.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> I disagree just a bit....
> A woman left without a man who she truly desires, will find herself receptive to attention provided elsewhere.
> "emotionally abandoned"...can mean a million different things to a million women.
> If you are not a viable option she will find one, if her options are still a plenty.



SOME WOMEN - 
"A woman left without a man who she truly desires," or with a man she's spent enough number of years with that she knows all of his habits & how he will react in any given situation, will be open to being entertained elsewhere.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Ben,

Any updates?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Arguing about whether or not polygraphs are reliable is a thread jack. If you want to discuss this, please create a new thread and have at it. 

This thread is to support the OP. 

I'm deleting the thread jack. 

DO NOT CONTINUE THE THREAD JACK.

(Speaking as a moderator ~ Ele)


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