# I need advise



## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

I hoping someone can help me. 
I’m 54, my wife is 53. We have been married for almost 28 years. We have 4 children, the youngest is 21. We married one year after meeting each other. I thought I loved her, but I now realize that I did not even know what it meant to be in love. She knew she didn’t love me, but thought she would as time went by. We started having children right away and had 4 within 6 years. The problems started almost immediately. I treated her like a sex object. She pulled away from me because of how I treated her. We did not communicate very well at that time. I had a problem with pornography at that time and the more she refused me sexually, the more I indulged in that lifestyle. 
After 10 years of this, she was depressed and did not know what to do. Then she met someone, a neighbor, who was also married and unhappy in his marriage. He met every need of hers that I was not meeting. This affair went on for about 3 years before I, and his wife, discovered it. They both decided to end the affair and stay married. What my wife told at that time was that she does not love me, will never love me, but will stay married to me for the kids sake. Since I did not want a divorce I agreed. At this point, even though all of this, I loved her and wanted her to love me. I thought by staying together, not only would it be better for the kids, she might someday love me. 
Our relationship actually improved after this. We talked all the time. I confessed to her all the things I had done, strip clubs, porn, etc. She talked about her affair. How she didn’t know what else to do. How, without him in her life, she would have divorced me. She helped change me into the man I am today. I no longer indulge in any of the things I did. I’m a very loving and kind man. I love my kids. They love me. My wife is my best friend. The thing is though, we are only friends. We have separate rooms, we don’t hold hands, kiss or hug. Also, she never really ended the affair. He is still in her life. They communicate regularly. A few years ago, after I found phone records of them talking, she proposed this. She asked if I would allow her to see him again. She thought that she could convince him to leave his marriage, then we would divorce and I could find someone who could love me. I agreed. I didn’t know what else to do. I still did not want a divorce. She would meet him for lunch and has been on 5 different, week long, out of town, business trips with him. 
So now, after almost 3 years of trying, she realizes that he will never leave his wife. I have told her that I will not allow her to see him anymore. She hasn’t seen him since their last trip, over 6 months ago. She says she wants to end it, knows she should, but it is very hard. He has been a part of her life for over 15 years. She says she wants to stay married to me, but she says she will never love me. We will never have more then we have now. 
As I read what I have written, I realize how foolish this must look. How it looks like I have been used by her. But I have become a better man through all this. A better father. I have grown to love her, even with all she has done. I want so much to be loved by her. I want to be married to the mother of my children. To the grandmother of my future grandchildren. But through all this, I have lost all hope that she will ever love me. 
Am I being selfish? Am I only thinking of myself? Should I stay with her for the sake of our kids and grandkids? Should I stay with her because she stayed with me and helped me through all of the issues I had? Should I stay because she may actually be able to end her relationship with this other guy and maybe, one day, she will find some love for me?
I don’t know what to do. I think about this every day. I am torn, conflicted. Afraid. Lonely.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I would try a separation. Your wife is a cruel person. You should seek counseling and an attorney. This country is crawling with women in their forties and fifties looking for a good man.

I also think there is a good chance when she sees you are ready to let go, she may figure out she does love you. Why you want to be her meal ticket I don't know though.

First get the book linked to below, MMSLP. Also, read the free version online of NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY.

Does she have sex with you?

By the way, her adultery is on of the worst I have seen here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife is a cheater, that means you can believe nothing she says. Whenever he calls she will go running.


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## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks for that. I am going to check out that book. From the little I just read, it sounds like that is who I am. I've been so racked with guilt over my role in the demise of this marriage, I allowed her to do what she has done to me.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Does his wife know they are still dating, going on these trips?
I would pack her bags and take her over to their house.


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## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

no, his wife has been in denial about the whole affair. She doesn't think there ever was a sexual affair. She just thinks that my wife was trying to take her husband from her, but didn't succeed.


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## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

Thank you again for your advice to read No More Mr. Nice Guy. I just read the first chapter and, man, that is me. This book describes exactly how I have lived my life and the consequences of that life style. I think, and hope, that this book can do more for me then any other I have ever read.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here browse this too... No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

stevecantdecide said:


> no, his wife has been in denial about the whole affair. She doesn't think there ever was a sexual affair. She just thinks that my wife was trying to take her husband from her, but didn't succeed.


Tell her one more time please then if she doesn't believe you did what you could.
Separate your finances if possible.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your wife is a selfish, selfish person. You have been so busy beating yourself up that you cannot see her cruelty.

I would pack her bags and shoo her out the door so she can find her bliss with him.

Find a kind-hearted, generous person to love you. They are out there, make no mistake.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

No, Please do not stay for the sake of your children. I understand totally why you want to, but you also deserve some happiness, and by what you say, your not happy.

You have just settled, you've allowed her to have an affair, and you have allowed her to still this man whenever she wants, and then she wants to stay with you because it has not worked out with him the way she wanted it to.

You seem like a lovely man, and you seem to have your children's welfare, needs, and wants at heart, but you can still be a good father, but also have a life and happiness of your own....... Staying with this woman i do not think is the right thing to do, IMHO.

I do not think you will be truly happy with your wife, shes very selfish, and shes only thinking of herself, her wants, and her own needs, not once really thinking about you at all.

I know you have also not been the perfect hubby, but at least you have owned up to what you have done, and your trying to change and be a good husband to your wife, shes not giving you the same in return, shes made mistakes, but shes still making them, and she still does not want to give up her lover, and be a good wife to you.

Like you say, your in separate rooms, you do not hug, kiss, cuddle you have no intimacy, no real loving..... can you see anything changing??.... I do not see your wife wanting to change at all, she just uses you to fall back on..... she would have left you if this man had left his wife.

I think you deserve better than what your getting, I think you should reread your post again, and ask yourself what your getting out of this marriage.

Good luck.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

What do your adult children know of any of this???

They are going to relive this story in their own relationships. Some of them will be the cheater. Some of them will be cheated on. I do not know the answer of how to 'fix' this for them but I know it starts with talking about it.

Honestly, what would your kids say if they read your post?

Keep in mind, they think it is normal for mom and dad to sleep in separate rooms and have no intimacy.

There are lots of people on the Coping with Infidelity forum who could give you great advice. My thought, for your kids...they all need to talk to both of you extensively about this so they do not have unresolved issues after you and/or your wife are gone. I don't know how to start the conversation, but it sure needs to happen.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Oh...and the other man's wife...if you haven't talked to her since you all first discovered the affair. She needs to be brought up to date.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

stevecantdecide said:


> I hoping someone can help me.
> I’m 54, my wife is 53. We have been married for almost 28 years. We have 4 children, the youngest is 21. We married one year after meeting each other. I thought I loved her, but I now realize that I did not even know what it meant to be in love. She knew she didn’t love me, but thought she would as time went by. We started having children right away and had 4 within 6 years. The problems started almost immediately. I treated her like a sex object. She pulled away from me because of how I treated her. We did not communicate very well at that time. I had a problem with pornography at that time and the more she refused me sexually, the more I indulged in that lifestyle.
> After 10 years of this, she was depressed and did not know what to do. Then she met someone, a neighbor, who was also married and unhappy in his marriage. He met every need of hers that I was not meeting. This affair went on for about 3 years before I, and his wife, discovered it. They both decided to end the affair and stay married. What my wife told at that time was that she does not love me, will never love me, but will stay married to me for the kids sake. Since I did not want a divorce I agreed. At this point, even though all of this, I loved her and wanted her to love me. I thought by staying together, not only would it be better for the kids, she might someday love me.
> Our relationship actually improved after this. We talked all the time. I confessed to her all the things I had done, strip clubs, porn, etc. She talked about her affair. How she didn’t know what else to do. How, without him in her life, she would have divorced me. She helped change me into the man I am today. I no longer indulge in any of the things I did. I’m a very loving and kind man. I love my kids. They love me. My wife is my best friend. The thing is though, we are only friends. We have separate rooms, we don’t hold hands, kiss or hug. Also, she never really ended the affair. He is still in her life. They communicate regularly. A few years ago, after I found phone records of them talking, she proposed this. She asked if I would allow her to see him again. She thought that she could convince him to leave his marriage, then we would divorce and I could find someone who could love me. I agreed. I didn’t know what else to do. I still did not want a divorce. She would meet him for lunch and has been on 5 different, week long, out of town, business trips with him.
> ...


Steve,

Stop beating yourself up. She is just as much at fault as you in the overall condition of the M and totally at fault for fvcking this guy on the side. I don't see how she could disrespect you any greater than by going out for week-long sex parties with her AP? It looks like you aren't anything more than her current meal ticket and cuckold. You have all the responsibilities of an H with no benefits. 

Put a stop to it. There are other women, better women out there for you.

Get the D papers. Tell you her you aren't going to put up with her $hit any more and that you want a divorce. Then 180 her. Go to the gym, work out, get in shape and put yourself out there.


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## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

Thank you all for taking the time to offer your advice. I am taking in all that is being said and formulating a plan. This situation will change and soon. I will have a conversation with her soon and I will tell her that if she is willing to end the relationship with the OM and start marriage counselling with me, I will stay with her. If she is not willing to do BOTH of these things, it's over. I've had enough. I needed the encouragement I have received here to finally take this step. Any further advice I can get will be welcomed. 

I will try to answer some of the questions I have received. My kids do not know. They would be devastated to know and I do not plan on telling them. As far as how they have turned out, overall pretty good. I realize there are some relationship issues with a couple of them, but I'm going to work on it. Having a solution to this problem, whether it is a D or a better relationship between their mother and I will help in having some dialog regarding what constitutes a proper relationship. 

As far as telling the wife of the OM, it's something I have thought about and wanted to do for a long time. I am going to hold off for now, but it is something I will do if I think it's the right thing. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong on this or if I'm just being a *****.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Steve, as you recognise the mistaken behaviors of the past you will gain the strength to correct them. I can't tell you your M will not come to an end. I can tell you if you change your behaviors you will create a better future for you and your family. Continue with NMMNG, make a plan of action, work on it and the exercises. The forum and it's members can be of great help and encouragement. Here is the 180 list for your use too...
180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

I'm not an advocate of broad indiscriminate exposure. I do believe both BS need to know. I believe those who can help end the affair and/or help with healing in the aftermath should be told also. 

As for exposure to the OMW, I'll tell you what I say to all who question the exposure to the OMW. I actually think it's immoral not to expose him to his wife. Withholding this information from her, includes you in the deceit of the affair along with the affair partners. By withholding this information from his wife you rob her of self-determination and condemn her to a life controlled by the lies of the affair partners. Without the information she will never be able to make a proper and informed decision about her life and that of her family. It's not the only reason, but I believe it's the most important.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

stevecantdecide said:


> As far as telling the wife of the OM, it's something I have thought about and wanted to do for a long time. I am going to hold off for now, but it is something I will do if I think it's the right thing. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong on this or if I'm just being a *****.


Your thought process is faulty. 

If you lay everything out on the table evidence wise for the OMW, she may actually help you end the affair for good. 2 sets of eyes are better than one and if she is putting pressure on the OM then he will have his attentions elsewhere besides on your W. Your task is to make this affair difficult for them both. 

If there is any hope, your W needs to go absolutely No Contact with him. None. Zero.

And everything needs to be transparent. Full access to her emails, facebook, cell phone etc. 

This is just a suggestion, but spend a little time reading some threads in the Coping With Infidelity forum then formulate your plan.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Put him on cheaterville.com. He knows you know and has been rubbing you nose in it well over a decade. He has had two women and you have had none. Its time for you to get angry and get your balls back. Stand up to them both. You don't have to live a second rate life.

Put him on the cville site and send him the link. Just put on the facts you believe , do not embelish or put your wifes name on it. Get his picture on facebook if you can. Send him the google link too. Many of the guys here have done it and gotten a good measure of satisfaction from it. Anytime someone googles his name, they will see the link and know exactly what a jerk he is.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Steve,

You're going to get good advice here. However, I am going suggest something different and not generally accepted here on TAM. Since your wife has been openly faithful to OM for so many years, I don't really see you as married. You are in an open marriage at best. And from what you write it seems you do not have sex with your wife because she does not want you.

1) Man up. That means working on yourself. Lose weight. Hit the gym hard. Do things for yourself.

2) Be more decisive. Don't chit chat and negotiate with your wife over lots of issues. Tell what you have decided. You can book restaurant for dinner and tell her that you are going. If she refuses, take someone else.

3) By all means but the OM on Cheaterville. Leave your wife's name off. Write something that is utterly factual and contains no words of pain or anguish. Let the description be nothing that can be debated.

4) Separate your finances.

5) As far as MC goes, don't bother, unless she comes to you and begs to go after writing an NC letter to OM. The NC letter must say that she is ending her emotional and physical fornication with OM in favor of you. That does not look likely because she has checked out.

6) File for divorce.

7) Do a 180. Your children have all moved out, right? You should inform them that you are divorcing. They are to old to hear lies. Mom has cheated for donkey's years and Dad is getting out to save himself. Tell them that you have not been a perfect husband, but you don't deserve a cheating wife.

When you do all these things your adulterous wife may snap out of her love for OM and want to rebuild your marriage, starting with defrosting the fridge between her legs. However, she has told your pretty straight that she loves him.

If you really love her, you will let her go. She can take her love for OM and try and cultivate it.

By being strong and decisive you will maximize the happiness left in your life. Read GutPunch's thread. Shamwow is another good one.

Oh, yes, what I was going to say that is not okay on TAM. Start dating. Go drink coffee with other women. Be straightforward and tell them that you are looking for friendship. Once you have women friends, you will feel a million times better. You owe nothting to your wife in terms of fidelity. If you want to sleep with one, just text your wife: "I am doing what you have been doing. Don't wait up for me tonight."


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Oh, yes, what I was going to say that is not okay on TAM. Start dating. Go drink coffee with other women. Be straightforward and tell them that you are looking for friendship. Once you have women friends, you will feel a million times better. You owe nothting to your wife in terms of fidelity. If you want to sleep with one, just text your wife: "I am doing what you have been doing. Don't wait up for me tonight."


That will raise the antennae!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> Oh, yes, what I was going to say that is not okay on TAM. Start dating. Go drink coffee with other women. Be straightforward and tell them that you are looking for friendship. Once you have women friends, you will feel a million times better. You owe nothting to your wife in terms of fidelity. If you want to sleep with one, just text your wife: "I am doing what you have been doing. Don't wait up for me tonight."


He is indeed in an open marriage. His wife knows he knows she is in a long term affair with OM.

I like the strategy of OP spending time with other women socially. It will build his confidence and it will open his eyes to there being other women in the world.

As to getting involved with one, I think it is a dangerous idea. There is risk of a rebound effect, and getting in too deeply. It also may violate his own moral standards if it seems to be "cheating" to him.

Though this is certainly an extreme situation, so the normal admonition to avoid revenge affairs may not be clearly applicable. I think I would take a more direct and proactive approach, which is to tell the wife it is officially declared a two-way open marriage. Just to be sure she is clear, he is telling her they are no longer exclusive.

Getting out of this marriage would be a far healthier thing for OP to do, IMHO. There is nothing significant to make staying officially married important. If there were a disabled child or some complicated big-dollar financial entanglement then there would be a reason to stay legally married. I don't see any such thing in this scenario.

So I would file for divorce and process it asap. Then I'd start dating slowly to get back into the social scene. OP needs time to heal before diving into the deep end.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

stevecantdecide said:


> I will try to answer some of the questions I have received. My kids do not know. They would be devastated to know and I do not plan on telling them. As far as how they have turned out, overall pretty good. I realize there are some relationship issues with a couple of them, but I'm going to work on it. Having a solution to this problem, whether it is a D or a better relationship between their mother and I will help in having some dialog regarding what constitutes a proper relationship.
> 
> As far as telling the wife of the OM, it's something I have thought about and wanted to do for a long time. I am going to hold off for now, but it is something I will do if I think it's the right thing. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong on this or if I'm just being a *****.


I would be surprised if your kids don't already know on some level. I understand not wanting to tell them. I really do. My dad had affairs. I have had one. And my wife has had one (in that order). I speak from experience when I say it will help your children to understand why YOUR relationship with your wife was the way it was...or is the way that it is. Not only that but by keeping her secrets from them and from the OM wife, you are CONDONING how she has treated you and you are lying to your children for her. This impacted their childhood, who they are as adults, and the relationships they have. I am not saying this makes them bad people by any stretch of the imagination. They may very well have grown up feeling very loved and cared for by both of you. But they have learned that lying is ok, tolerating lying is ok, sleeping in separate bedrooms from your spouse is ok, having an affectionless marriage is ok, and having a partner outside of your marriage is ok. You can't change that stuff but they deserve to know this is not a healthy view of life. 

And again...the other man's wife deserves to know what her husband has been doing for...what I can only assume is now MOST of their marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your youngest kid is 21, there IS NO staying "for the kids" anymore! Tell the other man's wife, pack your WW's bags, and file for divorce. Stop the madness.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't know how to go about it, but this would get a lot more attention and helpful responses in the Coping with Infidelity forum. Who can move it?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

At least 5 lovefest trips with the OM - openly so. 

This WW takes the cake for cake-eating.

(Calling Lord Mayhem and his very effective pic of the cake-eater.)


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## stevecantdecide (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks again for all the advice. 
As far as dating while still married, she has actually suggested that. But I said no. I just cant do that. I would not feel good about myself. I hate that she does it, I can't start doing that. I do have a plan. She is out of town right now and will be home in a few days. It's work related and she is not with the OM. I know for a fact she is not. I still love her and want to stay married, but I will not let this situation continue. When she comes home I plan on telling her that I love her and want to stay married to her and keep my family together. I will tell her the only way I am willing to do this is if she 1) ends the relationship completely and 2) agrees to go to a MC to work on our relationship. If she is not willing to do both of these things, I am filing for D. I expect that she will tell me she is trying to end the affair and I also expect that she will tell me that she does not want to reconcile with me. So I am prepared, and ready, for a D. It sucks, but I refuse to allow this to continue. Thanks again for your support.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Strength, resolve and the confidence that you can have a better life, is all you need, Steven. You dont need her or anyone to give you that. It's inside you.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

stevecantdecide said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to offer your advice. I am taking in all that is being said and formulating a plan. This situation will change and soon. I will have a conversation with her soon and I will tell her that if she is willing to end the relationship with the OM and start marriage counselling with me, I will stay with her. If she is not willing to do BOTH of these things, it's over. I've had enough. I needed the encouragement I have received here to finally take this step. Any further advice I can get will be welcomed.
> 
> I will try to answer some of the questions I have received. My kids do not know. They would be devastated to know and I do not plan on telling them. As far as how they have turned out, overall pretty good. I realize there are some relationship issues with a couple of them, but I'm going to work on it. Having a solution to this problem, whether it is a D or a better relationship between their mother and I will help in having some dialog regarding what constitutes a proper relationship.
> 
> As far as telling the wife of the OM, it's something I have thought about and wanted to do for a long time. I am going to hold off for now, but it is something I will do if I think it's the right thing. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong on this or if I'm just being a *****.


stevecantdecide,

Please, please tell the OM's wife. She has the right to know. I didn't believe the letter I originally got from the OWH's telling me my H was cheating on me. I believed my H as I didn't have any prove, I thought he loved me and would never cheat on me. I was so wrong and really wish I had believed the first letter. I got another one, with proof 3 yrs. later and so wish I had followed through on the first one. I was made a fool of for over 3 yrs. Don't let this happen to the OM's wife, she deserves better. You know how you feel and you know about it. Do her the courtesy of proof, then she can make her own decision of what she wants to do with her cheating husband. If I had checked out the husband that sent me the letter, than I would have found out sooner and the affair would have ended. Please tell her.
Granny7


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

See an attorney.
Connect with friends and/or make new ones.
Exercise---it helps!
Get some counseling.
Expose what your wife is doing.
Start living!


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