# Wife finds sex unnecessary and disgusting



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi All,

I've been married for 8 years to my wonderful wife (28). Our sex life has gradually deteriorated and I don't know what we can do to restore it to health.

We used to have a good connection in bed, different variety and Oral sex for her, but things have gone downhill, particularly in my opinion (but not hers) since the birth of our 2nd child 3 years ago.

We openly communicate about the issues we have and she understands that sexual release is important for me (she has no problem "helping out" a couple times a week).

The issue is that ultimately, by her admission she virtually never feels the urge to have sex. Its a matter of sometimes when we do it, she gets into it, other times she doesn't, but she never 'wants it'. She can and does orgasm maybe 50% of the time although I know that is not the end game for her and she knows I do not expect it.

My wife doesn't like foreplay. If I try to stroke down there, she clamps up. She won't touch herself down there not even with a towel after a shower because she thinks it's disgusting. We have not had Oral sex in 3 years because she says it makes my face dirty and we can't then kiss. I've taken all pressure off in that regard and told her I don't expect to give oral sex again if she doesn't want it.

We thought maybe birth control pills were having an effect so she stopped for two months, without any improvement. Although we both have tiring days with the kids etc, I try to go out of my way to make sure she has plenty of relaxation time.

We've got into scheduling days for sex so that the other days, when I give her cuddles and back rubs, she knows it will not need to lead to sex, but even on the days we schedule, sometimes she forgets or just complains she's tired and I feel guilty that I've been hopeful all day and that she really doesn't want sex.

Neither of us had previous sexual partners and there is no bad sexual experiences in the past.
We've had periods where I've said that we will lay off sex completely to give her a break and allow her to relax, but it had no effect.

I hate to point the finger of blame at my wife because we both love each other extremely. I've asked many a time if there is anything I can do or stop doing to help but she has no suggestion. I've told her that I will stick through anything to stay with her and would never leave/cheat (and I mean it!). We are just out of options at this point.

I'm hoping there are others on the board who have had a similar experience and come out the other side!

Thanks

K.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Take a look at the link below. My guess is that you are the "hot" partner. 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html






Loving_Hubby said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've been married for 8 years to my wonderful wife (28). Our sex life has gradually deteriorated and I don't know what we can do to restore it to health.
> 
> ...


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks to you both.

MEM, is there a follow up post on "Changing the temperature?" I cant find it!

Some of your points to apply to our relationship although she is the one who always wants us to say "I love you" very frequently which I would not associate with Cold behaviour. I have tried backing off away from her and as I say, we abstained from sex for quite a while.

I am interested to see your follow up though.

Thanks again


----------



## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

LH, it sounds like your wife has some serious body issues that you are not responsible for. She is trying to separate from parts of herself and needs some professional help. It's probably not something you can work on changing. What was her family of origin like? Did she have any abusive experiences there?


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

She is done with sex. Done.


----------



## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

Seems like she finds the sexual, feminine parts of herself disgusting not just the sex they're used for. May have been instilled in her at an early age. I'm not trying to get all psychological on you and many women have poor body images that impede sexual enjoyment but your wife's problems sound somewhat more serious than not liking what you see in the mirror.


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Kids can take a lot out of some woman's desire for sex and it sounds like you've got one of those women. One of her problems (she may have already mentioned this to you) might be that she can not relax enough to desire sex. If your kids are running around there's always the threat of them walking in on you, or her having to stop in the middle of it if one of the kids need attention. The good news is that things do change when the kids get older (high school and beyond).

She has some issues regarding her vagina, but on the other hand she obviously doesn't want to taste herself and has a valid point of not wanting to kiss you after you've been there.

You say that she understands your needs and takes care of you with sex. While I understand a man's need to be "desired" and for a woman to show it, I think you need to just deal with it. Take what you can get and don't put pressure on her to "want" you. Eventually she will come back to the way she was before kids, and WILL "want it" again.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Her baby fever broke. Now she's a 'mom'.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Loving_Hubby said:


> The issue is that ultimately, by her admission she virtually never feels the urge to have sex. Its a matter of sometimes when we do it, she gets into it, other times she doesn't, but she never 'wants it'. She can and does orgasm maybe 50% of the time although I know that is not the end game for her and she knows I do not expect it.


Hi Loving ~

Let me give you a bit of a different perspective. I am admittedly what I would consider a LD (lower drive) spouse than my husband. I have been throughout most of our 23 year marriage. I can admit that most of the time (not all of the time, but a good deal of it), I often have few sexual urges. However, my husband and I make a lot of compromises with each other, and we have what we both consider a fulfilling sex life - engaging in some type of sexual intimacy around 3 times a week, and what I call non-sexual foreplay everyday.

I think you need to look at this as a multi-pronged approach.

First, I have quoted one of the sections from your post above. There are so many great resources available to educate yourself with today, unlike the trial by error method my husband and I had to use when we were at the point you and your wife are. It is not uncommon for many, many women to either experience lower drive at some point or points in their life, or to just naturally be "set" that way. So, don't let yourself or your wife look at the fact that she is LD be considered a defect. It is what it is, and you have to work with what you have.

Also, for many women, the sexual response cycle is different than it is in a man. Many woman (myself included) often have desire that results after arousal - the opposite of what men experience. This is why my H and I have an "open door" policy. We both recognize the way we are each wired - I allow him any and all opportunities to pursue me and try and get me aroused. Most often with a little work, it happens - and the more you connect in this way, the easier it gets.

Here are some good articles you may want to look at regarding some of these topics. So, arm yourself with education and simply look at it as one of life's opportunities to learn how to mesh the differences there are between you and your wife:

Clinical Fact Sheets: Female Sexual Response

Low sex drive in women - MayoClinic.com

Revving Up Women's Sex Drive

So, since sexual drive in a woman can be multi-faceted and often reflects to a large degree where she is emotionally as well, you need to look at what kinds of things you can do to improve the relationship. [I am not saying that there are not things that she should also work on - but since you are the one here asking for advice and she isn't, and you can only really change yourself, thoughts, and actions, we will have to concentrate on you for now.  ]

Look at whether you are meeting the needs that your wife may have of you in the marriage. Do you know what those needs - either inside or outside of the bedroom - are? Does she ever express them to you? If not, is she willing to explore this with you? A couple of good reading sources are the following:

His Needs, Her Needs

Home - Five Love Languages

MEM and some of the other men on the forum can help give you information on ways that you as a man can take control of your own thoughts and actions in a positive way. MEM has already given you good information on his "thermostat" thread. You may also want to go over to the Men's Clubhouse sub-forum and start reading through the stories that are on the "Man Up/Nice Guy" sticky thread at the top.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

So, my husband and I are a success story in this area, and we did not have the wonderful resources that are available to you to help educate yourself and give insight and provoke that thought-changing process.

I think one of the most important things is if your wife is in sync with you - meaning, is she willing to work with you on this area of your relationship? Your post seemed to indicate that she was understanding of your needs. If she is receptive, then see if she is also willing to start to educate herself on what sexual intimacy means to a man. The following is a good resource for that:

Amazon.com: The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands (9780060520625): Laura Schlessinger: Books

Sorry for the long reply.

Best wishes to you.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I think you are defeating yourself when you tell her that you need "X" but that you'll stick around forever whether she provides "X" or not. Wrong answer. Your needs are legitimate and necessary for the success of the marriage. She knows what your needs are. If they are unimportant to her, that means you and the marriage are also unimportant to her. 
It sounds like she's being lazy and selfish and neither are conducive traits for a healthy marriage. You don't show up for work only on the days you happen to feel great about working. Your kids get fed even if you aren't hungry. I suspect she manages to fulfill her other responsibilities regardless of how she feels. Why should her husband (presumably the most important person in her life) be consistently put on the back burner? The answer is "because you allow her to put you there". If she neglects her kids, the state will lock her up and take away the kids. If she has a job and neglects it, she gets fired. If she neglects her responsibilities to you and to the marriage, squat happens. If you suddenly announced that you would no longer be going to work because you just really didn't feel like supporting your family anymore, how long do you think she would keep you around?


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I think you are defeating yourself when you tell her that you need "X" but that you'll stick around forever whether she provides "X" or not. Wrong answer. Your needs are legitimate and necessary for the success of the marriage. She knows what your needs are. If they are unimportant to her, that means you and the marriage are also unimportant to her.
> It sounds like she's being lazy and selfish and neither are conducive traits for a healthy marriage. You don't show up for work only on the days you happen to feel great about working. Your kids get fed even if you aren't hungry. I suspect she manages to fulfill her other responsibilities regardless of how she feels. Why should her husband (presumably the most important person in her life) be consistently put on the back burner? The answer is "because you allow her to put you there". If she neglects her kids, the state will lock her up and take away the kids. If she has a job and neglects it, she gets fired. If she neglects her responsibilities to you and to the marriage, squat happens. If you suddenly announced that you would no longer be going to work because you just really didn't feel like supporting your family anymore, how long do you think she would keep you around?


I guess it really depends on where you are and what you really want out of your marriage. I would presume that many husbands would prefer to engage in methods that may not be so coercive or potentially destructive first unless the relationship has been so far off in the weeds for a long time, and it takes that kind of cataclysm to bring it back on track - kind of like doing those electric shocks on a failing heart.

Pick the battle very carefully, because if you draw this card you must be willing to play the hand.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Why would anyone wish to remain linked to someone who was consistently indifferent to their needs? If your needs mean nothing to them now, do you imagine that when you're older and your needs are much greater that the partner will suddenly step up to the plate? There is no loving without giving. One who takes without giving in return is not a partner. That describes a slave owner or a parasite and losing either would only be beneficial. The only partner worth having is the one who puts your needs before or at least equal to their own. That is what she expects from him and he has the right to expect the same of her.


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice offered here and I'm going to try for another talk tonight over a quiet candlelight dinner.
Unbelievable - you've said that you should put your partners needs before your own - I agree. That's what I'm doing. She feels pressured and frustrated by sex so we do it infrequently. She understands my need to be loved in that way like I love her in the way she needs (compliments, listening etc). She feels that she is still inadequate to meet my needs however infrequent they are.
The truth is that even once a week goes nowhere near fulfilling my needs, but I have tried to compromise on this to take the pressure off of her to "perform".

You ask why anyone would put up with someone indifferent to their needs? Because I love her of course! I have a beautiful young family who would be devastated to have me leave my wife. I'm sorry but divorce could never be an option where the only problem is I'm not getting enough sex, that would be completely selfish.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Why would anyone wish to remain linked to someone who was consistently indifferent to their needs? If your needs mean nothing to them now, do you imagine that when you're older and your needs are much greater that the partner will suddenly step up to the plate? There is no loving without giving. One who takes without giving in return is not a partner. That describes a slave owner or a parasite and losing either would only be beneficial. The only partner worth having is the one who puts your needs before or at least equal to their own. That is what she expects from him and he has the right to expect the same of her.


Perhaps you could answer the first question you posed above for me in regards to your own relationship? I know that you are in a difficult one.

A marriage is composed of two people. As far as the OP, we do not know everything about his situation - the willingness of his wife to work on the relationship, for instance. He has stated that his wife is cognizant of his need for release and she does try. He will need to explore these things in his relationship to see if he can discover what is really going on.

I have found that when it comes to marriage, relationships, just people in general that things are rarely just black and white. It is rarely just one not giving all the time for no reason at all - there is a subtle dance at play between the husband and wife. For all we know, she could be reacting to the way he acts with her. We do not know, do we? We can only see her through the lens that he has provided.


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

It's worth noting that in previous arguments we've had regarding sex she's been extremely upset because she feels that she is bending over backwards to accommodate me once a week. In her eyes she believes that she is doing something completely for my benefit. She finds no pleasure in "physical pleasure", a statement that baffles me. I consider myself a good communicator and do all the things that should be considered turn ons (making time for her, spontaneous romanticism) - much more than I think 90% of other blokes would do. She says she loves my sensitive side so I don't think I need to "Man-up". In any case, I work out, lift weights, do running twice a week etc 

My wife would never initiate a conversation about sex and when I do, she has really nothing to say about it anyway. I can say something like "Do you prefer it if I do this rather than that" and she will just reply, "it doesn't really bother me".


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Putting the partner's needs first assumes that both partners are devoted to doing so, otherwise, one becomes a doormat. My ideal in this case would be that the OP approaches sex not from the perspective of what he isn't getting but primarily as a means of giving what his wife and the marriage need. That would likely mean that he content himself with somewhat less frequent intercourse and increasing other displays of intimacy. The wife, placing his needs first, would make herself more available to having intercourse whether she felt like it or not, realizing it's important to her husband and for the success of the marriage. The result would be a compromise both could live with. The OP and his wife made a reasonable compromise (scheduled days) but she finds excuses to not uphold her end of the agreement. They are not equally committed to solving this problem. If my wife is cold and I have the means of giving her warmth but I refuse or if she's thirsty and I have water but don't share it, I'd a liar when I say I love her. A woman who willfully starves her kids can't be considered a loving mother. He has a need. It is a legitimate need. He didn't ask for this need and he can't will it away. He can't get his need satisfied anywhere else. When a man and a woman become married, it's often characterized as two becoming one flesh. If you were cold, wouldn't you put on a jacket? If you felt hunger, wouldn't you eat? How can you possibly claim to love someone while deliberately withholding something they desperately need?


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

I've also asked her countless times if there is anything I can change in how I am (both inside and outside of the bedroom), she says no. She says that I am physically attractive to her and that I meet all her needs most of the time, that I am a great father and a loving husband - but she just doesn't want or need sex with me.


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

Unbelievable - I do understand what you are saying here, but I have no doubt of her love for me - it's just that she cannot exhibit it in the way I need. 
She has told me before that sometimes in the act, her head is full of self-doubting, even though I try to raise her up every day.
Her past I think DOES play it's part. Her mother died when she was very very young and once she had a stepmom, she became an outcast in the family and was made to feel very much not wanted.

I want to help her, help us as any loving husband would. It's not fair for me to rave on about her being selfish when she may be holding onto deep seated issues.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Decrease the amount of time you devote to her. Take the kids and have fun, work overtime, go out by yourself, but she needs to figure out that your presence, your attention, and your time have value and if she wants some of it, she'll have to bring something to the table. In every other walk of life, neglecting something important holds dire consequences. Right now, she fears none and has no motivation to change. After being turned down for about 4 weeks solid, last week I signed up for 16 hours of overtime. By the third day, my wife came onto me. The only time she expresses any interest or desire concerning sex is when I withdraw. As long as I'm hanging around, attending to her needs, she'd happily ignore mine till hell freezes over. If your boss paid you whether you went to work or not, how much effort would you devote to your job?


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

It just doesn't seem like a long term solution to the problem though. To ignore your wife for a week to have one night's good sex?
It seems like emotional blackmail for me to say to her "you'd better get over your sexual dysfunction or else I'm going to ignore you and your needs". Surely she needs support, love and understanding?


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Loving_Hubby said:


> Unbelievable - I do understand what you are saying here, but I have no doubt of her love for me - it's just that she cannot exhibit it in the way I need.
> She has told me before that sometimes in the act, her head is full of self-doubting, even though I try to raise her up every day.
> Her past I think DOES play it's part. Her mother died when she was very very young and once she had a stepmom, she became an outcast in the family and was made to feel very much not wanted.
> 
> I want to help her, help us as any loving husband would. It's not fair for me to rave on about her being selfish when she may be holding onto deep seated issues.


So, your wife may have some abandonment issues and be fearful or unable to engage in intimacy with you because of that.

Have you explored ways that would help to resolve this - has she ever considered IC, for instance?


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Loving_Hubby said:


> It just doesn't seem like a long term solution to the problem though. To ignore your wife for a week to have one night's good sex?
> It seems like emotional blackmail for me to say to her "you'd better get over your sexual dysfunction or else I'm going to ignore you and your needs". Surely she needs support, love and understanding?


She does need your support, love, and understanding, especially if she has unresolved issues regarding abandonment and intimacy fears. 

I think you should see if she would consider going to a counselor for herself as this seems like an issue that could be difficult to work through without some guidance.


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

We haven't considered any form of counselling but I am considering posing the question.

One other thing, when we make love, she covers her face up with her arm or else we have to turn the lights out. She doesn't want me to see the loss of control on her face. No idea where that stems from though.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Loving_Hubby said:


> We haven't considered any form of counselling but I am considering posing the question.
> 
> One other thing, when we make love, she covers her face up with her arm or else we have to turn the lights out. She doesn't want me to see the loss of control on her face. No idea where that stems from though.


Perhaps it's all part of the same issue - she has a hard time letting herself go and wants to/has to be in control so she tries to hide herself when she feels that control starting to slip?


----------



## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

Yes, but the thing that conflicts with all this is that she never wants to be in control of the actual act. She's happy for me to the the dominant one.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sure, she has needs and she's learning that the best way to have her needs met is to not forget that I have some, too. Either we both win or we both lose. My boss pays me because he knows I won't come to work otherwise. I pay my mortgage payment because I don't want to live outdoors. I don't pay the light bill because I adore the electric company but because I don't want to be in the dark. Laziness exists only where it is tolerated. We train others how to treat us. If we consent to be abused, we shouldn't be surprised to find ourselves abused. It would be great if everyone operated from lofty principles and would put the needs of their partner first without being reminded to do so, but there are selfish, lazy people in this world and some of us are married to them. My natural inclination is to hang around the house and dote on my wife regardless of how she treats me. My natural behavior sets me up for failure. I have to step outside my comfort zone and force myself to withdraw in order to prompt her into participating in the marriage. Those who expect respect tend to get it. Those who expect nothing from their partners tend to get less than nothing.


----------



## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

Speaking from experience (I was just like your wife until very recently), it will take both of you to make things better. She has to want to fulfill your needs and you have to figure out what she needs to open up sexually. For us, birth control pills were a part of the problem. I was on them a long time and it took a few months of being off of them for the effect to go away. We have two small children and I had issues with the weight I had gained after them and was embarrassed to let him see my body. When a women does not like her body, she cannot feel sexy ever. You may think your wife has not gained much, but neither did I in the scheme of things. My husband didn't think anything of it at all, but 20lbs on my small frame was devastating to me.

My attitude was that he just had too high of a sex drive; I was tired and well he would just have to deal with it. Our marriage was never in any danger as we are very close to each other and have been together since high school. So like your wife, I never had the fear of losing him over the problem. If I had, then things problably would have been fixed a long time ago. 

What fixed our situation? It was combination of things. The birth control pills were stopped. My husband recognized my body issues and worked to make me understand how much he loved my body (even the icky parts). My husband also displayed an unbelievable amount of patience. I still lost the weight which has done wonders for me feeling sexy and more attractive in lingerie or even nude. Plus, the exercise helped increase my energy level helping me save some for him. We communicate much more about issues which leaves no resentment in the bedroom. I also reached the "magic" age of early 30's which I thought was a myth, but things really got better. 

All of those things would not have worked if I hadn't changed my attitude about sex and made the decision that I wanted to do better for my husband. So, if she doesn't want to change, then there is nothing you can do to change your situation.

While things are going so much better for us, it is not an overnight process and we are still working on many of my inhibitions. As long as my husband carries a positive attitude, I am willing to work on it.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Unnecessary is one thing. Disgusting is something far different. You can train someone to not look at it as unnecessary, that is, something to be enjoyed. But if someone is repelled by it that's a much bigger problem and probably not one that can be solved.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Loving_Hubby said:


> Yes, but the thing that conflicts with all this is that she never wants to be in control of the actual act. She's happy for me to the the dominant one.


Because that's as close to being a complete non-participant as she can get away with.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Kricket said:


> Speaking from experience (I was just like your wife until very recently), it will take both of you to make things better. She has to want to fulfill your needs and you have to figure out what she needs to open up sexually. For us, birth control pills were a part of the problem. I was on them a long time and it took a few months of being off of them for the effect to go away. We have two small children and I had issues with the weight I had gained after them and was embarrassed to let him see my body. When a women does not like her body, she cannot feel sexy ever. You may think your wife has not gained much, but neither did I in the scheme of things. My husband didn't think anything of it at all, but 20lbs on my small frame was devastating to me.
> 
> My attitude was that he just had too high of a sex drive; I was tired and well he would just have to deal with it. Our marriage was never in any danger as we are very close to each other and have been together since high school. So like your wife, I never had the fear of losing him over the problem. If I had, then things problably would have been fixed a long time ago.
> 
> ...


Great post, Kricket! It CAN be done, but it does take the willingness of BOTH to make it truly work.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Because that's as close to being a complete non-participant as she can get away with.


This may not always be the case, though. Women are often either conditioned or wired to be more responsive than initiative. Many women LIKE their men to be more dominant and do the initiating!

And if she is a LD partner, initiating will likely rarely cross her mind. So, if you are with someone like that, you'd better understand that, and not make the fact they don't initiate some major issue.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My natural inclination as a guy is to jump the bones of almost every female I encounter. I recognize my wife would not like that and it would be harmful to my marriage, so I overcome my natural inclinations. I don't expect my wife to simply accept and put up with any behavior I happen to toss out there simply because I'm obeying my natural tendencies. We aren't slaves to our hormones and our partners don't have to accept just any old stale crumbs we feel like tossing their way.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

When her mission was to get married, her LD wasn't a deal-stopper. She managed to overcome it. Only after the mouse is firmly in the trap do women seem to lose their ability to supply cheese. I wager that if she found her security gone or threatened, she would quickly remember where she put her sex drive.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> When her mission was to get married, her LD wasn't a deal-stopper. She managed to overcome it. Only after the mouse is firmly in the trap do women seem to lose their ability to supply cheese. I wager that if she found her security gone or threatened, she would quickly remember where she put her sex drive.


Okay, I'll bite. We seem to like to bait each other anyway, even though we are actually on the same side of the fence. 

Disclaimer: Not ALL women are like this. Yah - I wasn't, so there - not ALL.

Please don't look at your marriage like it's just a big game that is being played. Really, honestly, men and women, you need to try and get down to the root of your problems and work TOGETHER for a solution and COMPROMISE. It isn't a game or a trap - not if you don't allow it to be.


----------



## FeliceDunas (Jun 14, 2011)

Hello Loving_hubby,

Many couples experience this problem. It is so common that I spend much of my time helping my clients and patients with this issue. Perhaps you might enjoy my free teleclass on this very subject.

If you would like more information, please visit my link. www.keepingherhappy.com


Felice


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Marriage isn't a game. Neither is your job, your mortgage, your child rearing, or any other relationship in your life. The one playing games is the party who believes they can take 100% devotion forever while returning only crumbs. Nobody keeps watering a dead plant, waxing a disabled car, paying a sleeping employee, or catering to a sexless spouse forever. She can either get with the program or this will end badly for her. As much as he may wish to pretend otherwise, he has real needs and can't help but learn to resent her if she neglects those needs long enough. If she is indifferent toward this need and gets away with it, why should she pay attention to any other need, opinion, desire, or thought he has?


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Marriage isn't a game. Neither is your job, your mortgage, your child rearing, or any other relationship in your life. The one playing games is the party who believes they can take 100% devotion forever while returning only crumbs. Nobody keeps watering a dead plant, waxing a disabled car, paying a sleeping employee, or catering to a sexless spouse forever. She can either get with the program or this will end badly for her. As much as he may wish to pretend otherwise, he has real needs and can't help but learn to resent her if she neglects those needs long enough. If she is indifferent toward this need and gets away with it, why should she pay attention to any other need, opinion, desire, or thought he has?


@ OP - Just remember that as you have needs, your wife does as well. It is just as easy for her to garner resentment toward you for constantly pushing her to something that she is not capable of doing yet. Intimacy (not just sexual intimacy) can be very difficult for some people, and it sounds like your wife may have some emotional issues that she may need help with. I wish you God speed.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Enchantment, do you see anything in my post that says I pressure her for anything? I rarely even bring the topic up anymore. This isn't some new phenomenon. It's been 8 years and she's heard everything I have to say on the topic and I've heard everything she has to say. I'm free with my compliments, non-sexual touching, helping around the house, attending to her needs, etc. If I give her a hug or kiss and get no reaction, I don't press the matter farther. After 3-4 weeks of dealing with an ice cube, I just find something else to do with my time. I've offered to go to counseling. I've taken her to marriage retreats. She knows I'm not entirely happy with our situation and she knows I'm willing to do whatever is required to improve it. I am understanding and patient but she also knows I have to intention of dangling on a cross of celibacy forever. I might not run out and divorce her or have an affair, but I'm not hanging around the house waiting on her to toss me a cookie, either.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Enchantment, do you see anything in my post that says I pressure her for anything? I rarely even bring the topic up anymore. This isn't some new phenomenon. It's been 8 years and she's heard everything I have to say on the topic and I've heard everything she has to say. I'm free with my compliments, non-sexual touching, helping around the house, attending to her needs, etc. If I give her a hug or kiss and get no reaction, I don't press the matter farther. After 3-4 weeks of dealing with an ice cube, I just find something else to do with my time. I've offered to go to counseling. I've taken her to marriage retreats. She knows I'm not entirely happy with our situation and she knows I'm willing to do whatever is required to improve it. I am understanding and patient but she also knows I have to intention of dangling on a cross of celibacy forever. I might not run out and divorce her or have an affair, but I'm not hanging around the house waiting on her to toss me a cookie, either.


Hi, unbelievable ~

My post above was addressed to the OP (@ OP) i.e., Loving_Hubby, not directly to you.  I was talking about those abandonment issues she seems to have as her emotional problem, and the recurring discussions regarding sex put a lot of pressure on her. 

Sorry - sometimes things get intertwined in threads when you respond to a responder and an OP and ... well, you know. I will try and remember to be more careful on specifying who I am addressing if I reference another's post. Really, I'll try, unless I forget. 

I know you are in a tough situation like many others. I come out some days and think maybe today I will not log on and read any more of them! As bad as it sounds, the stories of other people's pain does motivate me to try and be a better wife. I do not want my husband to feel like some of the male posters. Their stories tend to stay in my mind and my heart longer than I would like them to. I hope and pray that something positive will happen in your relationship with your wife. God Bless!


----------



## Asherah (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm an OB nurse and it honestly sounds like your wife may have suffered from some postpartum depression and now it has developed into something more. The fact that she won't allow oral sex because your face will be "dirty" or that she won't even touch herself makes me think so- those parts of her body are connected to the birth and pregnancy- so is sex with you. Was she this way before the birth of your last child? Childbirth and the whole pregnancy thing for alot of women is definitely a love/hate issue. I can relate to that- you love the miracle inside but hate what happens to your body... throw in the hormones and things can really get overwhelming. Postpartum depression often goes undiagnosed and many women suffer- husbands and families suffer. It's not always clear that postpartum depression has been the issue- and when left untreated and unrecognized it can explode into a multitude of other symptoms and problems. She may also have some hormones out of whack- one suggestion is to look for a physician who advocates bioidentical hormone replacement- they can test her and develop a formula specifically to her and to what her body needs. This type of hormone imbalance is not at all uncommon after having a child or being on birth control. Even things in our food and all of the cosmetics and beauty products we use are now being shown to alter hormones. You seem very sweet and concerned- continue to be there for your wife- she needs you. I wish you all the best.


----------



## Truthnanny (Feb 8, 2015)

Prolactin, is the hormone that lowers libido in women after child birth to help them stay calm during breastfeeding and during the strains of mother hood. Nature did not intend women to have sex after birth of babies. They can't. Hormones for sex in a woman are estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. These are not there as before. Women have to sleep for hours to recover from birth. It takes some years. The more you pressure her the more she will hate you for doing that and close up. She'll hate her body. She will feel it is her body you like, not her. She will hate the body that makes her feel used like a ***** when she is not emotionally ready to have sex. Careful not to drive her against you. A woman needs to feel she has a slim body that she likes in the mirror. She needs to like her private parts. If they have been wrecked, or torn in birth, she will hate herself. She will feel deep shame and possibly feels pain, be it psychological or physical pain in her private areas. Lack of estrogen after birth, makes the private parts in a woman go dry - like in menopause. Didn't know that did you? If things have gone dry through hormone changes after birth , she will hate all the pressure you are putting on her! A woman's mind is what makes sex happen. Stop thinking physical man sex all the time for goodness sake! Your wife is NOT a man like you and you would not like it if she was! She needs hot weather, lots of sleep (uninterrupted), a nanny to raise your kids, she needs to go bush away from the city which is abnormal and highly damaging to female sexuality and she needs you to understand that the sunset, watering her plants, feeding her cat and cleaning the house without a word to her about that, is what means something to her. If you buy flowers for her, that will not get sex going. If you cook dinner for her, that will not get sex going either if her poor pituitary gland in her brain is exhausted from being a mother. It just won't make sexual arousal hormones when she is tired and/ or breastfeeding. Stop hassling her for goodness sake or you will wreck her feelings from ever coming back. I feel you have become obsessive about trying to get her to do sex when she is not emotionally able to . Emotions are everything for the woman's sex drive and they are driven by her pituitary gland and hormones. Vitamins B, calcium, magnesium, zinc and anything that you as a man would take to boost your testosterone levels for yourself, are what your wife needs bucketfuls of in her diet. And sleep. More sleep for her. The man, is supposed to be hunting out there for food for his family so he is too exhausted for sex after he's returned from a long day's slog. I've told you what is wrong with you and your wife. It is your task to take that emotional pressure off her so she can recover properly!!


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Zombie thread alert...


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Loving_Hubby said:


> It just doesn't seem like a long term solution to the problem though. To ignore your wife for a week to have one night's good sex?
> It seems like emotional blackmail for me to say to her "you'd better get over your sexual dysfunction or else I'm going to ignore you and your needs". Surely she needs support, love and understanding?


She does but what of her obligation to your needs?



Loving_Hubby said:


> We haven't considered any form of counselling but I am considering posing the question.
> 
> One other thing, when we make love, she covers her face up with her arm or else we have to turn the lights out. She doesn't want me to see the loss of control on her face. No idea where that stems from though.


This is self serving behavior. She cares more about how she "feels" than about your feelings and needs. This is the root of many "problems" in marriage. I have explained to my wife that her body represents to me something that no porn star/model's body can. Her body brought to life my family and to me none else can compare.

To build a house one needs materials. Those materials are cut, hammered, mixed, formed and in other ways manipulated so as to create the finished product. A perfect stick straight 2x4 is nice but how much better when it is altered to create a home?

She must rationally understand that she now has an obligation to "we" and not "me".



unbelievable said:


> My natural inclination as a guy is to jump the bones of almost every female I encounter. I recognize my wife would not like that and it would be harmful to my marriage, so I overcome my natural inclinations. I don't expect my wife to simply accept and put up with any behavior I happen to toss out there simply because I'm obeying my natural tendencies. We aren't slaves to our hormones and our partners don't have to accept just any old stale crumbs we feel like tossing their way.


I agree. As we gained sentience, our ability to overcome instinct needs to advance and take control of our lives. Lives lived by instinct are chaotic when mixed with sentience and one must be able to reason that out and control the irrational.



unbelievable said:


> Marriage isn't a game. Neither is your job, your mortgage, your child rearing, or any other relationship in your life. The one playing games is the party who believes they can take 100% devotion forever while returning only crumbs. Nobody keeps watering a dead plant, waxing a disabled car, paying a sleeping employee, or catering to a sexless spouse forever. She can either get with the program or this will end badly for her. As much as he may wish to pretend otherwise, he has real needs and can't help but learn to resent her if she neglects those needs long enough. If she is indifferent toward this need and gets away with it, why should she pay attention to any other need, opinion, desire, or thought he has?


Again, agree here in that her "hangups" are going to have unintended consequences. It is a natural course for neglect to foster distance. Unless you (OP) are very highly advanced and able to completely deny yourself and give only for the sake of the family then, at some point, this "neglect" effect will cause unwanted results.

Additionally, as stated above, if your wife does not possess the ability to see and understand this as an issue and is permitted to continue in this behavior, then she has no real reason to change and all of your "coddling" will only serve to exacerbate the problem, reinforcing her feeling that she is perfectly within her "rights" to behave this way. 

Sometimes one cannot see an issue when approached head on but gains new perspective when seen from a different point of view. Your wife, thus far, has only seen this "problem" from the position of acceptance on your part. Perhaps nudging her off of her head on view may yield different results. I wish you good fortune.


----------

