# What are Your NUTs?



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

"N.U.T.s are your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms. N.U.T.s are the things you’re committed to, the things that matter more than anything else: your kids, your work, yourself, your purpose, your spiritual practice, your hobbies, your integrity, your morals and your psychological well-being."

Thinking...looking for examples...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

1. The golden rule - If you do not "in general" follow this I work to edit you out of my environment until we have as little interaction as possible. This applies to everyone - family included. 

2. I personally try hard to exceed the golden rule in my behavior. Lately I have struggled with that.

3. Everything else is some variation on the "GR" theme. 

Obviously kids get a lot of latitude - though less so as they turn into adults. 

I saw a really long - like 20+ items list - of one of these. It had some good ideas. It also contained some stuff that does not belong in a healthy marriage. For instance - I would be very concerned if my W adopted a firm posture on the item below. When either of us wants to travel we DO ask for permission. To be fair it is not "may I travel" it is "I am planning a weekend with my sisters - are any of these weekends bad for you"? Taken to an extreme many NUTS might/would violate my view of the golden rule. 

"I do not ask for permission."




nice777guy said:


> "N.U.T.s are your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms. N.U.T.s are the things you’re committed to, the things that matter more than anything else: your kids, your work, yourself, your purpose, your spiritual practice, your hobbies, your integrity, your morals and your psychological well-being."
> 
> Thinking...looking for examples...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Here is the thread with the list.... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html

The N.U.T.s listed in that thread was the Author's of this book : Amazon.com: Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men (9780979054402): Wayne M. Levine: Books


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Men have N.U.T.S. and women have T.I.T.S. (These Interesting Things Sought). Oh no, I think both genders have nuts and tits!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

No No, Trenton. T.I.T.s are "Totally Inviolable Terms"


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

I'm trying to think about these now. I'm trying to come up with my own list - I like the golden rule one. It makes sense to add it to my NUTS and to adhere to it myself.

I'm still at a loss as how these 'boundaries' are communicated. Do you tell your wife that this is a boundary? How does one even bring it up. Wait till they're crossing it and then speak?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You do not verbalize what is a boundary. You verbalize, or demonstrate the consequence of crossing one.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> "N.U.T.s are your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms. N.U.T.s are the things you’re committed to, the things that matter more than anything else: your kids, your work, yourself, your purpose, your spiritual practice, your hobbies, your integrity, your morals and your psychological well-being."
> 
> Thinking...looking for examples...


Forgot one YOUR WIFE. 

Wife is first period:smthumbup:


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> "N.U.T.s are your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms. N.U.T.s are the things you’re committed to, the things that matter more than anything else: your kids, your work, yourself, your purpose, your spiritual practice, your hobbies, your integrity, your morals and your psychological well-being."
> 
> Thinking...looking for examples...


You’ve many NUTs NG. You’re an accountant right? Would you ever fiddle the books? Of course you wouldn’t. Is your balance 100% accurate? Of course it is. These are just two of your Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms.

Start from there with your NUTs and you’ll be defining who you are at your very core.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> You do not verbalize what is a boundary. You verbalize, or demonstrate the consequence of crossing one.


Absolutley the right way to go about it. And if they persist in crossing a personal boundary and do not respect it then there'll be trouble of some form or other. But at least you know where you stand.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

jonny said:


> I'm trying to think about these now. I'm trying to come up with my own list - I like the golden rule one. It makes sense to add it to my NUTS and to adhere to it myself.
> 
> I'm still at a loss as how these 'boundaries' are communicated. Do you tell your wife that this is a boundary? How does one even bring it up. Wait till they're crossing it and then speak?


Probably best to buy a book or two on personal boundaries. There's quite a few available.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Men have N.U.T.S. and women have T.I.T.S. (These Interesting Things Sought). Oh no, I think both genders have nuts and tits!


Okay, that was funny and I needed a laugh with the crappy night I'm having...thanks.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> You do not verbalize what is a boundary. You verbalize, or demonstrate the consequence of crossing one.


Okay - so how does she knows something is a boundary if I don't communicate it? Say with this 'other man' or guy friend - Say I have a boundary of 'No talking / texting late night' with him. 



AFEH said:


> Absolutley the right way to go about it. And if they persist in crossing a personal boundary and do not respect it then there'll be trouble of some form or other. But at least you know where you stand.


I guess this relates to the above.



AFEH said:


> Probably best to buy a book or two on personal boundaries. There's quite a few available.


I've got the N.U.T.S. book. I'll read after 'no more mr. nice guy. '

Thanks.

I don't know why I'm having such problems with my own boundaries. I guess it's because I've just altered and molded them all the time to work with situations / not cause conflicts / compromise myself . . .


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jonny said:


> Okay - so how does she knows something is a boundary if I don't communicate it? Say with this 'other man' or guy friend - Say I have a boundary of 'No talking / texting late night' with him.


Depends. What's the consequence? What are you prepared to do when she continues crossing the contact boundary? 




> I don't know why I'm having such problems with my own boundaries. I guess it's because I've just altered and molded them all the time to work with situations / not cause conflicts / compromise myself . . .


Exactly. Both of the books you just picked up will lend clarity.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jonny,
This is one only you can answer. For me - I would not tolerate my W having a close male friend when she was very deliberately denying me full transparency into their relationship. I would end our very happy, loving 21 year marriage over that. As much as it would hurt, if she has that little respect for our marriage - and for me - then we are done. 

And frankly full transparency might not be enough. In fact if we were "having problems" and I viewed the other guy as a distraction I would insist she end it. And of course all this would be true in reverse. Though I would NEVER do the crap your W is to you - to my W. By now she would have divorced me, castrated me with a butter knife or both. 

As for her boundaries:
- She has the right to never be groped
- She has the right to her space when she wants to be alone
- The rest are all golden rule stuff

One last thing. Her games with the other man are encouraging you to do things that are not constructive. For example, telling her you are going out and being deliberately evasive about where/what you will be doing. I would never erode marital trust in order to gain emotional leverage. 

As for me - I am all about being fair. So I am going to assume you did some things (not cheating) in your marriage you wish you hadn't. Doesn't matter what those things are - just that you/she have a list of your "screw ups". 

So my play would look like this. 
I would sit her down and tell her that you will forgive her for this inappropriate relationship (and keep calling it that - over and over - because it IS inappropriate and that is why she deletes texts). So the deal is:
- She ends the relationship immediately and focuses on the marriage
- You forgive her for that transgression AND she forgives you for whatever your part in the marriage getting off track is AND
- You start clean slate with each other

As part of that clean slate - me - I would rewrite my vows and ask her to do the same. Funny what you write once you know someone inside and out. Healthy process actually. 




jonny said:


> Okay - so how does she knows something is a boundary if I don't communicate it? Say with this 'other man' or guy friend - Say I have a boundary of 'No talking / texting late night' with him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Jonny,
> This is one only you can answer. For me - I would not tolerate my W having a close male friend when she was very deliberately denying me full transparency into their relationship. I would end our very happy, loving 21 year marriage over that. As much as it would hurt, if she has that little respect for our marriage - and for me - then we are done.
> 
> And frankly full transparency might not be enough. In fact if we were "having problems" and I viewed the other guy as a distraction I would insist she end it. And of course all this would be true in reverse. Though I would NEVER do the crap your W is to you - to my W. By now she would have divorced me, castrated me with a butter knife or both.
> ...


Thanks MEM

Will read over a few times I'm sure - and it may come to this.

I also need to be honest with myself and careful and make sure I'm not overreacting / blowing things out of proportion.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Simple "barometer" of behavior. Ask her if she is ok with you disclosing this "situation" to all your friends and family. She will NOT be ok with that because she KNOWS this is a highly inappropriate relationship. In fact she will go BERSERK if you threaten to do that. You won't get logic - pure intimidation. And THAT is the behavior of someone caught with their hands in the cookie jar.




jonny said:


> Thanks MEM
> 
> Will read over a few times I'm sure - and it may come to this.
> 
> I also need to be honest with myself and careful and make sure I'm not overreacting / blowing things out of proportion.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Simple "barometer" of behavior. Ask her if she is ok with you disclosing this "situation" to all your friends and family. She will NOT be ok with that because she KNOWS this is a highly inappropriate relationship. In fact she will go BERSERK if you threaten to do that. You won't get logic - pure intimidation. And THAT is the behavior of someone caught with their hands in the cookie jar.


:iagree:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Simple "barometer" of behavior. Ask her if she is ok with you disclosing this "situation" to all your friends and family. She will NOT be ok with that because she KNOWS this is a highly inappropriate relationship. In fact she will go BERSERK if you threaten to do that. You won't get logic - pure intimidation. And THAT is the behavior of someone caught with their hands in the cookie jar.


jonny,

This is your next step - if you're not afraid of her.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> jonny,
> 
> This is your next step - if you're not afraid of her.


I have to admit Conrad - I am afraid of the outcome of doing this. The old me wouldn't admit that to you - I'm anonymous here really - I could just say I'd do it - and vanish.

I'm going to make sure this topic is on my reread list - and that it's gone over often. 

I'm stepping back, reassessing the situation, and not wavering from my main goal here - the development of me.

I appreciate it.

I really do.

Like I said - your answers can be some of the shortest - yet most impactful.

This answer being one of those.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jonny,
You really ARE coming along. 

I am starting to realize something. You taking it to the wall on the OM is like a "title fight". You don't feel ready. I respect you for saying that. 

Keep practicing "sparring" with her - and gradually getting stronger and stronger. At some point she will either fall back in love with you and drop the OM or you will feel strong enough to risk the whole relationship if you feel she is being disrespectful. 

In the meantime you truly are making progress. You should feel good about that.




jonny said:


> I have to admit Conrad - I am afraid of the outcome of doing this. The old me wouldn't admit that to you - I'm anonymous here really - I could just say I'd do it - and vanish.
> 
> I'm going to make sure this topic is on my reread list - and that it's gone over often.
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> _*Originally Posted by Deejo:*You do not verbalize what is a boundary. You verbalize, or demonstrate the consequence of crossing one._
> 
> Okay - so how does she knows something is a boundary if I don't communicate it? Say with this 'other man' or guy friend - Say I have a boundary of 'No talking / texting late night' with him.


Jonny, I think you are confusing a boundary with you trying to make someone else do things your way. There is a difference and it is subtle. Here is my boundary about talking/texting with other female people late at night: "I will not be with a partner who chooses to talk/text with other females late at night over being with me." Please note that my boundary does not say what my spouse can and can not do. He can go to the moon if that's what he chooses. My boundary is about ME! My boundary is a fence around myself and what I will and will not allow inside that fence. So I don't go around saying my boundary out loud. That's silly. But if my Dear Hubby starts getting in the habit of texting other women from bed until 3am--then yep what I say is "I won't live in a relationship with a partner who chooses to talk/text with other females late at night over being with me. We have a problem." The consequences could depend on whether his response is "Oh shoot I hadn't realized how out of hand it was becoming. You're right" and then he actually changes...or "You can't tell me what I can and can not do!" But what I do know--I *WILL NOT TOLERATE* being treated like that and it is about what I choose for my life--not him. Make sense?



> _*Originally Posted by AFEH:* Absolutley the right way to go about it. And if they persist in crossing a personal boundary and do not respect it then there'll be trouble of some form or other. But at least you know where you stand._
> 
> I guess this relates to the above.


Okay let's use the above scenario. I won't live with a spouse who texts other females late at night, and he's texting some other lady until 3am. First, I come to the realization this is NOT okay with me--usually because I feel hurt and angry, and I feel weight on my chest from trying to hold it in. Next, I formulate it into words so that I can verbalize exactly what the problem is (what I'm not "okay with"), verbalize exactly what I think and feel, and verbalize what solution WOULD make it okay with me and ask for that solution. If he were to agree and follow through, it's resolved and never bring it up again as if it never happened. If he agrees and doesn't follow through, it was probably passive/aggressive and he wanted to say no but didn't have the guts so I don't talk again, I go to the consequence. If he disagrees and offers an alternative, I consider it and continue negotiating until we agree--at which point it's resolved. And if he disagrees, doesn't offer an alternative, and continues--straight to the consequence. No threats. Either I'm ready to back it up right now or I don't say it out loud. 



> _*Originally Posted by AFEH:* Probably best to buy a book or two on personal boundaries. There's quite a few available_.
> 
> I've got the N.U.T.S. book. I'll read after 'no more mr. nice guy. Thanks.


I personally also recommend "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend. They explain boundaries REALLY well. 



> I don't know why I'm having such problems with my own boundaries. I guess it's because I've just altered and molded them all the time to work with situations / not cause conflicts / compromise myself . .


Yep that's exactly it. You compromised the True You in order to "keep peace" and what it did was eat you up inside. You were trying to "be what she wants" and in reality what she wants is the man you are...the True You. But just so you don't get discouraged, when I was a kid I was beaten by my parents and raped in college, so the concept of a boundary to me was like COMPLETELY FOREIGN. I could not even grasp the fact that I had a say! To me, my personal boundaries as a child weren't just trampled--they were obliterated! If people trampled on me I thought something like, "Oh yeah--everyone does that" and carried on. It had a counselor work with me probably for a couple months just to get that lightbulb moment of saying, "Okay so wait. I can't tell THEM what to do but I get to say what will and will not happen to me..in my life?" WOW! :yay: What freedom! 

So don't feel too bad. This is a kind of hard concept to "get" and then to actually "practice." The first few times you practice it, you may not do it perfectly. That's cool--just learn "Well...what could I do better next time" and then do that. You'll get there.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

My wife and I had a great discussion on this the other night.

Nice guys seem to want "peace at any price" - but what it morphs into is "piece (of ass) at any price".

Not a formula for getting either sort of piece.


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