# The Four Corners of Reality (fidelity/infidelity)



## Bad News (Nov 4, 2010)

The four corners of reality (not in order of significance - 1) You’re cheating on your spouse and they don't suspect, 2) You’re cheating on your spouse and they suspect, 3) You’re not cheating on your spouse nor do they suspect, 4) You’re not cheating on your spouse but they suspect that you are. Well, I'm in category 4) duh, and it’s destroying our marriage. Having been a member on TAM for several months this issue is not that uncommon. I'm really angry about the scrutiny and surveillance my wife insists on conducting and associated assumption of guilt. My observable irritation only reinforces her misguided belief that I'm hiding something. Anyone else constantly having to defend themselves over seemingly silly stuff. Anyone ever overcome this problem?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Bad News said:


> The four corners of reality (not in order of significance - 1) You’re cheating on your spouse and they don't suspect, 2) You’re cheating on your spouse and they suspect, 3) You’re not cheating on your spouse nor do they suspect, 4) You’re not cheating on your spouse but they suspect that you are. Well, I'm in category 4) duh, and it’s destroying our marriage. Having been a member on TAM for several months this issue is not that uncommon. I'm really angry about the scrutiny and surveillance my wife insists on conducting and associated assumption of guilt. My observable irritation only reinforces her misguided belief that I'm hiding something. Anyone else constantly having to defend themselves over seemingly silly stuff. Anyone ever overcome this problem?


I was accused of really bizarre things while my wife was either gearing up to cheat or cheating.

She still has not really acknowledged how effed up that was.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Bad News said:


> The four corners of reality (not in order of significance - 1) You’re cheating on your spouse and they don't suspect, 2) You’re cheating on your spouse and they suspect, 3) You’re not cheating on your spouse nor do they suspect, 4) You’re not cheating on your spouse but they suspect that you are. Well, I'm in category 4) duh, and it’s destroying our marriage. Having been a member on TAM for several months this issue is not that uncommon. I'm really angry about the scrutiny and surveillance my wife insists on conducting and associated assumption of guilt. My observable irritation only reinforces her misguided belief that I'm hiding something. Anyone else constantly having to defend themselves over seemingly silly stuff. Anyone ever overcome this problem?


I would first say change your quote to live by....just saying... hmmm hard to trust someone when they believe that one of the important rules in life is to tell!?!?!?

Beyond that, there is nothing for me to say dear....if your in category 4 there must be something you are doing.... or not doing to make your spouse think that you have put your marriage on the back burner.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

michzz said:


> I was accused of really bizarre things while my wife was either gearing up to cheat or cheating.
> 
> She still has not really acknowledged how effed up that was.



Michzz you need to look at the past posts of both bad news and me 2sick so best understand. The things I have accused him of are not bizarre but in fact are extremely hurtful on his part. And if he is not cheating then I would LOVE to know why he does half the stuff he does?!?!?!


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Again another problem is that you would think hurting someone's feelings...especially the one you have vowed to love till death do you part...."simply silly". This further shows how you have changed into a callous, selfish person only thinking of what you can get. You were such a loving, caring, gentle man who made me so proud to be his wife...So yes, instead of thinking that you have turned into this person for NO reason, I find it simpler/easier to blame it cheating. So if no cheating is involved its even sadder, there's no excuse for your half truths and omissions and callous behavior. And yes You constantly lying to me has made me try and find out the truth...and if I hadn't, I wouldn't have found out about most of the "white lies". So guess what, YOU can easily get me stop snooping....1. be open and honest to begin with or 2. leave.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

2sick said:


> Michzz you need to look at the past posts of both bad news and me 2sick so best understand. The things I have accused him of are not bizarre but in fact are extremely hurtful on his part. And if he is not cheating then I would LOVE to know why he does half the stuff he does?!?!?!


Oh wait. You guys are still at this? I thought you had gone past this?


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Oh wait. You guys are still at this? I thought you had gone past this?


I know...It so sad that we seem to Always go back to square one. 
I'm starting to think that there is no cure. I won't trust a man who can't tell the truth...he won't tell the truth to a woman who won't trust him...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

2sick said:


> I know...It so sad that we seem to Always go back to square one.
> I'm starting to think that there is no cure. I won't trust a man who can't tell the truth...he won't tell the truth to a woman who won't trust him...


What happened to counseling again? I forget?


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> What happened to counseling again? I forget?


 :scratchhead: Good question!!! We go but he doesn't like to do the standing homework of communicating with each other for 15 minutes uninterrupted. We have had good weeks and then back to..."why the hell are we married...back to hmm that's why....to why???..... For now it seems like the only person benefiting from our c is the MC.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

2sick. You don't trust him. Can you explain why? What makes you think he is being dishonest?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Bad News, why aren't you doing your homework?


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> 2sick. You don't trust him. Can you explain why? What makes you think he is being dishonest?


Wow mom that's a loaded question!!! Without getting back into all of the details, in general, I don't trust him because he is always changing his stories and telling half truths and when I question him...."well I changed my mind" is the blanket excuse. I can ask him a point blank question and he seems to be able to scoot around the answer without actually answering. For instance something completely random, (and yes silly) regarding fb, he had made the promise of not doing it at work....I found out that was a lie because everytime I called him he seemed distracted so I logged on to his account and discovered in fact he had been doing the entire time but just decided to "be offline". Also during these fb encounters I discovered a chat (which in fact this time was innocent) he was having with another woman...telling her "email me privately because I have a jealous wife"?!?!?!? So although that particular woman was innocent who knows how many of his other female fb friends are not. He couldn't be honest with me about the innocent one so why would he be about any others....Even the innocent one had a questionable past...they had made out with each other in high school (I have no problem with that...I only have the problem with the fact that when I asked did he, he point blank said NO)!!! 
Again if only he can be open and honest about even the simple things, I might be able to learn to trust. But it goes against his personality to share his feelings. So until he can open up to me, there's no hope for me to trust anything he says. Just like my last post....He said he just couldn't wait until our special date.... but I then find out that he wasn't planning on even attending the special date?!?!? How do you trust someone who just can't be honest?


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## Bad News (Nov 4, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Bad News, why aren't you doing your homework?


After a two weeks of doing this you really run out of things to say that don't involve reiterating the stuff that's not readily solvable. I didn't dodge this in MC either and admitted that I don't care for the exercise - but its not like 2sick says let do the homework and I refuse. I just seem to get all the blame when it doesn't take place. The MC told 2sick that snooping was a subtle form a dishonesty and to see if she could go a week without doing - and that was about it because she resmumed looking thru my phone, phone records email etc. And that's what my post is all about, being under survaillence because of percieved infidelity.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Bad News said:


> After a two weeks of doing this you really run out of things to say that don't involve reiterating the stuff that's not readily solvable. I didn't dodge this in MC either and admitted that I don't care for the exercise - but its not like 2sick says let do the homework and I refuse. I just seem to get all the blame when it doesn't take place. The MC told 2sick that snooping was a subtle form a dishonesty and to see if she could go a week without doing - and that was about it because she resmumed looking thru my phone, phone records email etc. And that's what my post is all about, being under survaillence because of percieved infidelity.


Yup I actually did the homework. And yes you passive/aggressively bypass the homehork. But since you don't directly refuse me regarding homework....Let's do it tonight!!!No if and or buts about it. FYI it's sort of sad if you have nothing to say to your wife for 15 minutes. I think mc was correct your marriage and family no longer fits into your "new" lifestyle! And I suppose if I felt that I was important in your life then ALL of the "coincidences" in our lives wouldn't be perceived as you being unfaithful...but since you love being sneaky and constantly want to be secretive...yup that is the general perception... JUST BE OPEN AND HONEST....just that simple...I'm not your mother and I hate that you make me snoop to find out anything about you!!! So if you don't want me knowing anything about you by talking with me and you don't want me knowing anything by me investigating, apparently you don't want me to know you period?!?!?!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Wow, this really hits home. My H and I are going through the same sorts of issues. He lies, which makes me suspicious, and most of the time it is harmless, he's just trying to "protect" me because he knows how sensitive I am. But then my point is to just be open and honest and maybe I would trust you more. If you think it might hurt me, mention it and gauge the response, or don't do it at all! But this has now turned into much bigger issues. He doesn't communicate at all now, and I'm as insecure as it gets. So, he's moving out for a trial separation to figure himself out. And I'm going to learn how to worry about me.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Whoa! Ok, my head's spinning trying to figure this out...but I finally get it, you two are a married couple arguing via TAM? I'm slow. 

Bad News, exactly how do you expect your wife to have trust in you when you do deceitful things like communicate with women on FB in a secretive way? It's totally unfair of you to blame her for having trust issues when you do things like that and, in truth, it's extremely manipulative. Can't have it both ways.

2Sick, this man is playing head games with you. If I were you I'd move on.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Wow, this really hits home. My H and I are going through the same sorts of issues. He lies, which makes me suspicious, and most of the time it is harmless, he's just trying to "protect" me because he knows how sensitive I am. But then my point is to just be open and honest and maybe I would trust you more. If you think it might hurt me, mention it and gauge the response, or don't do it at all! But this has now turned into much bigger issues. He doesn't communicate at all now, and I'm as insecure as it gets. So, he's moving out for a trial separation to figure himself out. And I'm going to learn how to worry about me.


I don't understand the difficulty in just being open and honest. Yes I'm probably going to get upset BUT guess what I'm going to even MORE upset when I have not only the issue to deal with but then the disception tooo!!! This is when I would say Manning up comes in handy... grow some balls and just tell the truth!! So what if I don't agree or even get upset, that's life. If you want ANYONE, especially your spouse to trust you, you HAVE TO BE HONEST!!!
I'm sooo sorry to hear that you two in a trial separation, I hope you two can work it out. Let me know how it goes. Sincerely, good luck!!!!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

2sick said:


> I don't understand the difficulty in just being open and honest. Yes I'm probably going to get upset BUT guess what I'm going to even MORE upset when I have not only the issue to deal with but then the disception tooo!!! This is when I would say Manning up comes in handy... grow some balls and just tell the truth!! So what if I don't agree or even get upset, that's life. If you want ANYONE, especially your spouse to trust you, you HAVE TO BE HONEST!!!
> I'm sooo sorry to hear that you two in a trial separation, I hope you two can work it out. Let me know how it goes. Sincerely, good luck!!!!


Yes, it's caused all sorts of issues. Thanks for the good wishes. I hope it works out too. My heart is seriously broken. Hope you guys can find common ground. I don't understand why marriage is difficult. It would be nice if sometimes we could all just take the gloves off and come to an understanding.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

2sick said:


> Wow mom that's a loaded question!!! Without getting back into all of the details, in general, I don't trust him because he is always changing his stories and telling half truths and when I question him...."well I changed my mind" is the blanket excuse. I can ask him a point blank question and he seems to be able to scoot around the answer without actually answering. For instance something completely random, (and yes silly) regarding fb, he had made the promise of not doing it at work....I found out that was a lie because everytime I called him he seemed distracted so I logged on to his account and discovered in fact he had been doing the entire time but just decided to "be offline". Also during these fb encounters I discovered a chat (which in fact this time was innocent) he was having with another woman...telling her "email me privately because I have a jealous wife"?!?!?!? So although that particular woman was innocent who knows how many of his other female fb friends are not. He couldn't be honest with me about the innocent one so why would he be about any others....Even the innocent one had a questionable past...they had made out with each other in high school (I have no problem with that...I only have the problem with the fact that when I asked did he, he point blank said NO)!!!
> Again if only he can be open and honest about even the simple things, I might be able to learn to trust. But it goes against his personality to share his feelings. So until he can open up to me, there's no hope for me to trust anything he says. Just like my last post....He said he just couldn't wait until our special date.... but I then find out that he wasn't planning on even attending the special date?!?!? How do you trust someone who just can't be honest?


BN?


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

2sick said:


> I don't understand the difficulty in just being open and honest. Yes I'm probably going to get upset BUT guess what I'm going to even MORE upset when I have not only the issue to deal with but then the disception tooo!!! This is when I would say Manning up comes in handy... grow some balls and just tell the truth!! So what if I don't agree or even get upset, that's life. If you want ANYONE, especially your spouse to trust you, you HAVE TO BE HONEST!!!
> I'm sooo sorry to hear that you two in a trial separation, I hope you two can work it out. Let me know how it goes. Sincerely, good luck!!!!


Actually you DO understand his difficulty in being open and honest, because you just stated it perfectly. To tell you the truth would mean that he might have to deal with your emotion and anger and, from his perspective, THAT'S A BAD THING! It's simply too uncomfortable for him and he'll do anything to avoid being uncomfortable. Men who lie to avoid conflict are so very much like naughty little boys afraid of being chastised by mommy. I couldn't agree with you more...time for him to man up.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

2sick said:


> I don't understand the difficulty in just being open and honest. Yes I'm probably going to get upset BUT guess what I'm going to even MORE upset when I have not only the issue to deal with but then the disception tooo!!! This is when I would say Manning up comes in handy... grow some balls and just tell the truth!! So what if I don't agree or even get upset, that's life. If you want ANYONE, especially your spouse to trust you, you HAVE TO BE HONEST!!!
> I'm sooo sorry to hear that you two in a trial separation, I hope you two can work it out. Let me know how it goes. Sincerely, good luck!!!!


The difficulty seems to come from the fact that A insists and forces B to be open and honest. The B might be OK with being open and honest, but _just because_ A forces him to be that, B will resist. The more A forces for it, the more B resists against it.

I have a question for both of you, 2sick and BadNews: One would think that sometimes a non-face-to-face communication during a conflict would be very beneficial. When one is not face-to-face with the other, one would tend to really focus on the words of the other and really think before replying themselves (after all, one has to type all that). One's actual response wouldn't be dictated as much by a knee-jerk emotional reaction, would it? 

Is that so with/for you guys?


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> The difficulty seems to come from the fact that A insists and forces B to be open and honest. The B might be OK with being open and honest, but _just because_ A forces him to be that, B will resist. The more A forces for it, the more B resists against it.
> 
> I have a question for both of you, 2sick and BadNews: One would think that sometimes a non-face-to-face communication during a conflict would be very beneficial. When one is not face-to-face with the other, one would tend to really focus on the words of the other and really think before replying themselves (after all, one has to type all that). One's actual response wouldn't be dictated as much by a knee-jerk emotional reaction, would it?
> 
> Is that so with/for you guys?


 Can'tspeak for bn but I feel more 

I feel able to express my deeper,possibly more hurtful feelings on tam...this way I can get additional feedback. Good observation.:lol:


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

No one is trying to protect anyone but themselves and their own ass when they lie. If they are doing things secretively that would hurt you even a tiny bit then they know it's wrong.


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