# Sex and lies...



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies. 

Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.

He lied pretty much about everything...trickle truth for well over 2 years.

I sometimes believed him because how the hell does someone who says they love you make up lies like that?!

I continued to have sex with him...

I see it as a sexual violation. I would not have had sex with him if he had told the truth. 

One incident stands out above all the others. I almost feel like I was raped. I know the trauma I feel can’t compare to what rape victims go through but the sexual violation was still there. 

Like most things I’m more angry at myself for being a willing victim but I wonder if others see this like I do?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Like most things I’m more angry at myself for being a willing victim but I wonder if others see this like I do?


Why are you a willing victim? Why are you still with him?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband lied for quite a few years about cheating. He was very good at concealing the truth. Looking back, I would say feeling used describes it. I’ll never forgive any of that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

pastasauce79 said:


> Why are you a willing victim? Why are you still with him?


At the time we were trying to reconcile.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> My ex-husband lied for quite a few years about cheating. He was very good at concealing the truth. Looking back, I would say feeling used describes it. I’ll never forgive any of that.


To me it was worse than the affair itself...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Are you still planning to leave?

This guy doesn't share your values. He is all about himself and what suits him


You don't factor in. My ex was this way too so I get it, but you have to stop trying to understand him because you never will.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Are you still planning to leave?
> 
> This guy doesn't share your values. He is all about himself and what suits him
> 
> ...


You are right about that. So odd thinking you really know someone and realizing you never did, at all.
I am planning on having him leave. 😉


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> You are right about that. So odd thinking you really know someone and realizing you never did, at all.
> I am planning on having him leave. 😉


This might be TMI but my ex and I used to take bubble baths together. It was one of our things.

But after I found out about his side ex gf, which he'd kept in contact with our entire relationship, he too lied about absolutely everything. He changed his story based on what he realized I knew and then threw tantrums when I didn't believe him. I don't actually know if it was physical because I didn't stick around long enough to hunt for proof but based on his constant trickle truth I assume there's more I don't know about.

Also he admitted once that when I first brought up the ex his first thought was "OMG what does she know". Take from that what you will.

I looked back and realized he never really wanted to get married. He wanted to keep me around and sniff elsewhere to feed his pathetic ego. I even brought it up in MC....that I thought he didn't want to get married....and he was silent. During a fight he said he married me because he thought I was the best he was ever going to do.

He's probably right about that.

I bring all of this up to put things in perspective. Before I moved out I took a bath by myself and ex asked if I'd considered that it was the last bath I'd take in that house. It apparently held some nostalgia for him, but I realized that the entire relationship wasn't what I thought. Therefore it had no further meaning to me. It's not like we didn't have some fun tines, but the core relationship was never what I thought.

Ex could be nostalgic because he always knew what the relationship was and it worked for him so of course things like that were sad.

To me the whole thing was phony so a bath was just a bath.

Sorry for the rambling.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> This might be TMI but my ex and I used to take bubble baths together. It was one of our things.
> 
> But after I found out about his side ex gf, which he'd kept in contact with our entire relationship, he too lied about absolutely everything. He changed his story based on what he realized I knew and then threw tantrums when I didn't believe him. I don't actually know if it was physical because I didn't stick around long enough to hunt for proof but based on his constant trickle truth I assume there's more I don't know about.
> 
> ...


Not rambling at all! I appreciate the feedback. I can identify with what you are saying. The tantrums for not believing him...my husband actually stomps his feet. Has perfected the wounded “Is that what you think of me look” 😂
While my husband never said he thought I was the best he would ever do no one else came around so he probably figured might as well. NOW he professes how much he loves me and all I have done for the nearly 4 decades we have been together...problem is I can’t tell the difference between his lying face and his truth face. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> To me it was worse than the affair itself...


I can agree with that.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Not rambling at all! I appreciate the feedback. I can identify with what you are saying. The tantrums for not believing him...my husband actually stomps his feet. Has perfected the wounded “Is that what you think of me look” 😂
> While my husband never said he thought I was the best he would ever do no one else came around so he probably figured might as well. NOW he professes how much he loves me and all I have done for the nearly 4 decades we have been together...problem is I can’t tell the difference between his lying face and his truth face. 🤷🏼‍♀️


You never will be able to because he's demonstrated that he lies as it suits him just like my ex. He may love you in the ways he can, but those ways are self serving. It's all about HIS life blowing up.

Just like my ex....I realized the same thing. My ex used to turn his back on me all the time when I was upset because baby couldn't handle conflict, but when I filed and HE was upset I was supposed to give a ****. That's how they think.

You have nothing to work with.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

At this point you are the willing victim. Nothing about the past is relevant now. You can only steer the course of the future.
I could be off base but I think most people already know the truths that they won’t admit to themselves.... they just make sure they are never said out load so they can continue pretending it isn’t real.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> You never will be able to because he's demonstrated that he lies as it suits him just like my ex. He may love you in the ways he can, but those ways are self serving. It's all about HIS life blowing up.
> 
> Just like my ex....I realized the same thing. My ex used to turn his back on me all the time when I was upset because baby couldn't handle conflict, but when I filed and HE was upset I was supposed to give a ****. That's how they think.
> 
> You have nothing to work with.


You are so right! I actually do believes he loves me even with all the selfish and self serving things he has done.
He has changed in many ways over the last few months. Things in the house that would go ignored are all fixed. When a lightbulb goes out if we don’t have one he runs to the store to get one immediatel. 😂
He is trying in his own way to atone.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> At this point you are the willing victim. Nothing about the past is relevant now. You can only steer the course of the future.
> I could be off base but I think most people already know the truths that they won’t admit to themselves.... they just make sure they are never said out load so they can continue pretending it isn’t real.


You are correct. The veils have slipped away. Wanting to believe so badly that the person you love is not a monster definitely messes with the ability to see reality for what it is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> You are so right! I actually do believes he loves me even with all the selfish and self serving things he has done.
> He has changed in many ways over the last few months. Things in the house that would go ignored are all fixed. When a lightbulb goes out if we don’t have one he runs to the store to get one immediatel. 😂
> He is trying in his own way to atone.


Mine did as well. Too little too late. He was all nostalgic and sentimental about selling our home when the divorce was final. I wasn’t. It was a really great house but it was built on lies.

People like that truly feel that they deeply love their spouse. And maybe they do but it’s a very selfish love that actually benefits them and no one else. My husband fought our divorce— even after all he did. I’m betting yours will too.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

He has shown you he lies and cheats and then lies. Do you need further convincing of that fact? Or would you say he has adequately proven that to you? No judgment for feeling some connection to him, but at this point his lying face is just...his face. If his core values are that he cheats then lies about it, is that really someone you want in your life? Does the fact the he can change a lightbulb really effect who he is as a person? I get that he's trying, but trying to what? Convince you he's changed? Convince himself? Why?? I would be very wary of his motives at this point. The lying makes all the times you trust him feel that much worse, as I recall from my own period of being gaslit. Don't let him make you feel stupid. You are guilty of loving someone and trusting them.

Why did you make the decision to reconcile? I'm not judging you, I'm genuinely wondering, so I can respond appropriately.

At this point, though you can't make the claim that you don't know what he's like. That is the person you are choosing to stay with. If you are accepting of that, then I wish you the best of luck. But I have not seen that work well on this forum.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> But after I found out about his side ex gf, which he'd kept in contact with our entire relationship, *he too lied about absolutely everything. He changed his story based on what he realized I knew and then threw tantrums when I didn't believe him.* I don't actually know if it was physical because I didn't stick around long enough to hunt for proof but based on his constant trickle truth I assume there's more I don't know about.


THIS is what happened with MY STBX husband, but not about cheating, about his OTHER issues.

But to me, the deception was THE BIGGEST betrayal...and like you said, he KNEW he was lying, and would use emotional manipulation (tantrums!) to force me to accept his truth - I never fully believed him - but I LOVED him and I wanted to believe he was as open and honest as I was. 

I finally decided to stop DIGGING for the truth all the time -- I was exhausted from being confused and insecure about him lying all the time (about EVERYTHING), and just GAVE UP. I got OFF the roller coaster, and that's when I got my life back...and my piece of mind. Because it didn't matter anymore.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Mine did as well. Too little too late. He was all nostalgic and sentimental about selling our home when the divorce was final. I wasn’t. It was a really great house but it was built on lies.
> 
> People like that truly feel that they deeply love their spouse. And maybe they do but it’s a very selfish love that actually benefits them and no one else. My husband fought our divorce— even after all he did. I’m betting yours will too.


He absolutely does not want a divorce. He even started going to individual counseling which for him has to be excruciating. We recently welcomed our first grandchild into the world and I can see the pain on his face realizing we won’t be Grammy and Pop-pop in the normal sense..together.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> This might be TMI but my ex and I used to take bubble baths together. It was one of our things.
> 
> But after I found out about his side ex gf, which he'd kept in contact with our entire relationship, he too lied about absolutely everything. He changed his story based on what he realized I knew and then threw tantrums when I didn't believe him. I don't actually know if it was physical because I didn't stick around long enough to hunt for proof but based on his constant trickle truth I assume there's more I don't know about.
> 
> ...


YOU are BRILLIANT!!! Your posts are really helping me...THANK YOU!!!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> He absolutely does not want a divorce. He even started going to individual counseling which for him has to be excruciating. We recently welcomed our first grandchild into the world and I can see the pain on his face realizing we won’t be Grammy and Pop-pop in the normal sense..together.


I just can't understand this -- if he didn't want his marriage to end, WHY would he screw another woman???

He actually doesn't care about his marriage AT ALL!!! When you value something, you PROTECT it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies.
> 
> Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.
> 
> ...


I get at first why we need answers, but after a while you have to ask yourself what the point is? You know the mindset and what you are dealing with, what does more discussion bring?

I mean you should not have the words - I almost feel like I was raped - when discussion someone who has the title of husband in your life. 

Ex-husband makes sense.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
> 
> He has shown you he lies and cheats and then lies. Do you need further convincing of that fact? Or would you say he has adequately proven that to you? No judgment for feeling some connection to him, but at this point his lying face is just...his face. If his core values are that he cheats then lies about it, is that really someone you want in your life? Does the fact the he can change a lightbulb really effect who he is as a person? I get that he's trying, but trying to what? Convince you he's changed? Convince himself? Why?? I would be very wary of his motives at this point. The lying makes all the times you trust him feel that much worse, as I recall from my own period of being gaslit. Don't let him make you feel stupid. You are guilty of loving someone and trusting them.
> 
> ...


I know who he is now. I will never forget and I have told him as much. I decided to stay for multiple reasons. The biggest probably being financial and decades of history.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies.
> 
> Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.
> 
> ...


He can make up lies because HE DOESN'T LOVE YOU -- HE LOVES HIMSELF. Anything positive he directs at you is only because it benefits HIM in some way, so it's NOT about YOU at all, and being a true, full, loving partner to you. 

It's ALL ONLY about HIMSELF. It makes me want to PUKE!!!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I get at first why we need answers, but after a while you have to ask yourself what the point is? You know the mindset and what you are dealing with, what does more discussion bring?
> 
> I mean you should not have the words - I almost feel like I was raped - when discussion someone who has the title of husband in your life.
> 
> Ex-husband makes sense.


I probably should refer to him as my STBXH. That’s how I have him in my phone. 😂
I bring it up because we discussed it and I don’t think he sees it like I do. I was wondering if other people see it the same way.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> This might be TMI but my ex and I used to take bubble baths together. It was one of our things.


Sorry when I read bubble bath I thought you were going to make an analogy, but when you didn't I decided to make one for you.

Say you love to take bubble baths with your spouse, that is your thing. Then one day the spouse takes a big old dump right in the middle of your bath together. Now why would you stay in the bath with them? Would you ever bathe with them again?

Most of the time Reconciliation is like taking a bubble bath with a great big floating turd in it. The turd is your cheating spouse.

Haha!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I know who he is now. I will never forget and I have told him as much. I decided to stay for multiple reasons. The biggest probably being financial and decades of history.


Believe me, I GET THIS!!!

It's really difficult and even scary to imagine another future now, and your mind starts to rationalize the unacceptable things to make them acceptable, so you don't have to face the scary unknown. 
When I see commercials or shows with older couples still together and in love, I still get tears in my eyes, thinking I may not have that with anyone like I always thought I would...and if feels scary and lonely and disappointing!

But that's when I square my shoulders and pull up my big-girl panties, and face that unknown future head-on with hope and excitement about what will be. It will be DIFFERENT, but I'm going to make sure it's REAL this time! And it will be MINE!!
And I'm grabbing it with BOTH hands!!!!


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Sorry when I read bubble bath I thought you were going to make an analogy, but when you didn't I decided to make one for you.
> 
> Say you love to take bubble baths with your spouse, that is your thing. Then one day the spouse takes a big old dump right in the middle of your bath together. Now why would you stay in the bathe with them? Would you ever bath with them again?
> 
> ...




That is how I felt - I never thought he would take a turd in the bath with me. He swore blind he never took turds. He never would be interested in taking a turd. And yet...something stinks...

I thought the bubblebath was a great example though - the things that mean something to us start to feel a lot let special when you realize what kind of person you shared them with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> That is how I felt - I never thought he would take a turd in the bath with me. He swore blind he never took turds. He never would be interested in taking a turd. And yet...something stinks...
> 
> I thought the bubblebath was a great example though - the things that mean something to us start to feel a lot let special when you realize what kind of person you shared them with.


It's also hilarious.

This is my new quote -

Never take a bubble bath with a person who would crap in it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Believe me, I GET THIS!!!
> 
> It's really difficult and even scary to imagine another future now, and your mind starts to rationalize the unacceptable things to make them acceptable, so you don't have to face the scary unknown.
> When I see commercials or shows with older couples still together and in love, I still get tears in my eyes, thinking I may not have that with anyone like I always thought I would...and if feels scary and lonely and disappointing!
> ...


I think that is what I have the hardest time with now. All the plans..the decisions made over the years so we could retire and enjoy our grandkids...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Sorry when I read bubble bath I thought you were going to make an analogy, but when you didn't I decided to make one for you.
> 
> Say you love to take bubble baths with your spouse, that is your thing. Then one day the spouse takes a big old dump right in the middle of your bath together. Now why would you stay in the bath with them? Would you ever bathe with them again?
> 
> ...


That made me laugh....thank you 😅

It reminds me of the American Dad where Stan poops in the pool and everyone laughs at him.

Next time I take a bath, which will probably be tomorrow, I'll give thanks for the absence of floating turds!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I think that is what I have the hardest time with now. All the plans..the decisions made over the years so we could retire and enjoy our grandkids...


I bet...it SUCKS...
He's an IDIOT!!!
(((((((((HUGS!)))))))))


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I bet...it SUCKS...
> ((((((((((HUGS!!!))))))))))


When my daughter told me she was pregnant I wanted to cry. While I was happy for the bundle of joy it hit home. Now my son is going to be having his first this summer. Double trouble! I thought I could just stay and let the grandma and grandpa fantasy play out.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> When my daughter told me she was pregnant I wanted to cry. While I was happy for the bundle of joy it hit home. Now my son is going to be having his first this summer. Double trouble! I thought I could just stay and let the grandma and grandpa fantasy play out.


I don't know you well, but from the few posts of yours I've read on here...I just don't see you being able to pull that off!!! Lol!
(and I'm COMPLIMENTING you by saying that!)


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't know you well, but from the few posts of yours I've read on here...I just don't see you being able to pull that off!!! Lol!
> (and I'm COMPLIMENTING you by saying that!)


Thanks! I think my STBXH was hoping that the grandkids would kinda work out in his favor. That they would make me soften. It has actually done the opposite. It has made me realize how much time I have wasted.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Thanks! I think my STBXH was hoping that the grandkids would kinda work out in his favor. That they would make me soften. It has actually done the opposite. It has made me realize how much time I have wasted.


Why don't you tell him since he opened your marriage to other partners without telling you, it's YOUR turn to find some sexy guy to play around with for awhile...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Why don't you tell him since he opened your marriage to other partners without telling you, it's YOUR turn to find some sexy guy to play around with for awhile...


He suggested just that. Multiple times...😳


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> He suggested just that. Multiple times...😳


WOW...you mean so you would stay?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> WOW...you mean so you would stay?


That and so maybe I would consider swinging. Sex is just sex after all 😳


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> That and so maybe I would consider swinging. Sex is just sex after all 😳


Oh boy...what did you think of that??


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Oh boy...what did you think of that??


I thought a lot of things. 😂 
It was not the first time he has suggested swinging. I have no interest in it.
I think he suggested it mostly to assuage his own guilt. To make us even...except for they lying and sneaking around part. 
He did more damage with that suggestion especially because we had extensive conversations about it. 
He said as long as I didn’t fall in love he was ok with it. 😏


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I thought a lot of things. 😂
> It was not the first time he has suggested swinging. I have no interest in it.
> I think he suggested it mostly to assuage his own guilt. To make us even...except for they lying and sneaking around part.
> He did more damage with that suggestion especially because we had extensive conversations about it.
> *He said as long as I didn’t fall in love he was ok with it.* 😏


And how the hell does he think THAT can be controlled??

UGH...this guy is NO prize if his values are SO different than yours, and if he's THIS disrespectful of your boundaries...even without the cheating...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> And how the hell does he think THAT can be controlled??
> 
> UGH...this guy is NO prize if his values are SO different than yours, and if he's THIS disrespectful of your boundaries...even without the cheating...


He can’t imagine I would ever stop loving him...🤷🏼‍♀️


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> He can’t imagine I would ever stop loving him...🤷🏼‍♀️


Hmm...well, loving him and having a relationship with him are two separate things.

You can love someone and know that they aren't the right person to make you happy, nor you to make them happy.
If my husband had wanted to "swing", I would have let him go and do that all he wanted...WITHOUT ME. I would have wanted him to be happy and have his fantasy...but it's not MINE, so he needs someone else, NOT ME. 

What are you going to do now? Are you still living with him?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Hmm...well, loving him and having a relationship with him are two separate things.
> 
> You can love someone and know that they aren't the right person to make you happy, nor you to make them happy.
> If my husband had wanted to "swing", I would have let him go and do that all he wanted...WITHOUT ME. I would have wanted him to be happy and have his fantasy...but it's not MINE, so he needs someone else, NOT ME.
> ...


Your first sentence was what I had to learn...
He just moved back in 3 months ago after a 6 month separation.
I am trying to move some chess pieces and have him back out by June 1st.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Your first sentence was what I had to learn...
> He just moved back in 3 months ago after a 6 month separation.
> I am trying to move some chess pieces and have him back out by June 1st.


I get it. My STBX is still living here, although we barely interact or see eachother, while he's looking for a place to live. 
This is a crappy time to try and separate!!! Lol!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I thought a lot of things. 😂
> It was not the first time he has suggested swinging. I have no interest in it.
> I think he suggested it mostly to assuage his own guilt. To make us even...except for they lying and sneaking around part.
> He did more damage with that suggestion especially because we had extensive conversations about it.
> He said as long as I didn’t fall in love he was ok with it. 😏


I actually know someone who had this happen. They were swingers and for her it was a bandaid for what was missing in the marriage....for him it was just strange.

He though he could control what she got out of it, but if you're going to let your spouse screw others you can't control the feelings that may develop.

Im their case she did develop feelings. I remember when it happened....she told the husband that she was developing feelings for the guy and offered to close the marriage but he had to give up strange. He refused.

Well guess what? She fell for the other guy and the husband went nuts... harassed her, threatened the guy's life. But when he was able to decide between strange and what could be his marriage he chose strange.

When she refused to give up the other guy he found what he thought was a sugar mama (husband never worked) and filed for divorce. When the wife accepted it he tried to backtrack, but by then she was done. Turns out filling for divorce was a bully tactic.

The sugar mama ended up throwing him out and he harassed his now ex wife and her bf for well over a year until she took another job and moved away.

Several years later she's still happy with the other guy and the ex's life is a mess. He can't keep a job and is constantly looking for people to sponge off of. 

All because he wanted strange and thought he could force his wife to get what he got out of swinging.

Doesn't work like that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies.
> 
> Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.
> 
> ...


Emotionally, infidelity can absolutely leave you feeling violated in a similar way.

The physical trauma isn't present but the emotional trauma is and it can feel worse being betrayed by the one closest to you as opposed to an attacker that might not know you at all and certainly not your spouse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I actually know someone who had this happen. They were swingers and for her it was a bandaid for what was missing in the marriage....for him it was just strange.
> 
> He though he could control what she got out of it, but if you're going to let your spouse screw others you can't control the feelings that may develop.
> 
> ...


It honestly sounds like it was for the best to get rid of some dead weight for her.

This is some weird stuff!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> It honestly sounds like it was for the best to get rid of some dead weight for her.
> 
> This is some weird stuff!


She absolutely is better off and she knows it.

She's glad he forced the issue because she does think she would have left him. She was definitely codependent.

She says she'll never engage in thar lifestyle again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> When my daughter told me she was pregnant I wanted to cry. While I was happy for the bundle of joy it hit home. Now my son is going to be having his first this summer. Double trouble! I thought I could just stay and let the grandma and grandpa fantasy play out.


I thought that as well and I did for quite awhile but then I couldn’t anymore. My grandchildren asked if he and I could remain family after the divorce and we did. But I was always very happy at the end of whatever event we were attending when we went our separate ways.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The second time I caught my ex-husband cheating, he suggested I even the score somewhat. He was very surprised when I said I wasn’t interested. I guess cheaters think everyone’s like them.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I sometimes believed him because how the hell does someone who says they love you make up lies like that?!
> 
> I continued to have sex with him...
> 
> ...


You two don't share the same definition of love, his is selfish. I understand how you feel, I was more outraged by the deception and manipulation than the actual of him screwing someone else. I'm also angry at myself for being a willing victim, I allowed him to treat my like crap bc of "love".

Don't beat yourself up about that, it no longer matters, focus your love on yourself right now. He doesn't and never will understand love and what it means in action as a couple. Don't you deserve to have peace?

What moves are you making to take back your agency in your life? Waiting for him to leave is still depending on him to step up and do the "right" thing. You will feel more in control of your life if you start making moves without his input. Staying and waiting for him to take action is perpetuating victimhood, btw. Plus he might be viewing that as being in his advantage. Your presence indicates acceptance, he'll do stuff to look good for a while, then go back to his usual crap.



lifeistooshort said:


> This might be TMI but my ex and I used to take bubble baths together. It was one of our things.
> 
> But after I found out about his side ex gf, which he'd kept in contact with our entire relationship, he too lied about absolutely everything. He changed his story based on what he realized I knew and then threw tantrums when I didn't believe him. I don't actually know if it was physical because I didn't stick around long enough to hunt for proof but based on his constant trickle truth I assume there's more I don't know about.
> 
> ...


My ex tried to pat himself on the back by saying how he was a good husband for the first 10 years and looked to me for assurance. I simply said I couldn't comment, bc his deception made me question if anything was real. I felt no attachment to our house whatever and had no issues moving. Totally get the lack of meaning.


Torninhalf said:


> Not rambling at all! I appreciate the feedback. I can identify with what you are saying. The tantrums for not believing him...my husband actually stomps his feet. Has perfected the wounded “Is that what you think of me look” 😂
> While my husband never said he thought I was the best he would ever do no one else came around so he probably figured might as well. NOW he professes how much he loves me and all I have done for the nearly 4 decades we have been together...problem is I can’t tell the difference between his lying face and his truth face. 🤷🏼‍♀️


So in his kind he "settled" and feels entitled to "more".


lifeistooshort said:


> You never will be able to because he's demonstrated that he lies as it suits him just like my ex. He may love you in the ways he can, but those ways are self serving. It's all about HIS life blowing up.
> 
> Just like my ex....I realized the same thing. My ex used to turn his back on me all the time when I was upset because baby couldn't handle conflict, but when I filed and HE was upset I was supposed to give a ****. That's how they think.
> 
> You have nothing to work with.


My ex wanted to be friends, cried buckets, and looked to ME for comfort! SMFH! Totally oblivious to anything but what HE wanted.


Openminded said:


> Mine did as well. Too little too late. He was all nostalgic and sentimental about selling our home when the divorce was final. I wasn’t. It was a really great house but it was built on lies.
> 
> People like that truly feel that they deeply love their spouse. And maybe they do but it’s a very selfish love that actually benefits them and no one else. My husband fought our divorce— even after all he did. I’m betting yours will too.


I don't know if they feel any real empathy honestly. Just the loss of a toy/emotional punching bag.


LisaDiane said:


> THIS is what happened with MY STBX husband, but not about cheating, about his OTHER issues.
> 
> But to me, the deception was THE BIGGEST betrayal...and like you said, he KNEW he was lying, and would use emotional manipulation (tantrums!) to force me to accept his truth - I never fully believed him - but I LOVED him and I wanted to believe he was as open and honest as I was.
> 
> I finally decided to stop DIGGING for the truth all the time -- I was exhausted from being confused and insecure about him lying all the time (about EVERYTHING), and just GAVE UP. I got OFF the roller coaster, and that's when I got my life back...and my piece of mind. Because it didn't matter anymore.


I felt better about my situation when I realised the whys and wherefores no longer mattered. I decided to cut my losses and move on.


Torninhalf said:


> He absolutely does not want a divorce. He even started going to individual counseling which for him has to be excruciating. We recently welcomed our first grandchild into the world and I can see the pain on his face realizing we won’t be Grammy and Pop-pop in the normal sense..together.


Sounds like a personal problem... HIS problem.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Emotionally, infidelity can absolutely leave you feeling violated in a similar way.
> 
> The physical trauma isn't present but the emotional trauma is and it can feel worse being betrayed by the one closest to you as opposed to an attacker that might not know you at all and certainly not your spouse.


I think the trauma is more emotional for me. Using my body knowing you are lying...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I thought that as well and I did for quite awhile but then I couldn’t anymore. My grandchildren asked if he and I could remain family after the divorce and we did. But I was always very happy at the end of whatever event we were attending when we went our separate ways.


I feel like this will be me...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> The second time I caught my ex-husband cheating, he suggested I even the score somewhat. He was very surprised when I said I wasn’t interested. I guess cheaters think everyone’s like them.


He was and still is amazed I have not evened the score...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> You two don't share the same definition of love, his is selfish. I understand how you feel, I was more outraged by the deception and manipulation than the actual of him screwing someone else. I'm also angry at myself for being a willing victim, I allowed him to treat my like crap bc of "love".
> 
> Don't beat yourself up about that, it no longer matters, focus your love on yourself right now. He doesn't and never will understand love and what it means in action as a couple. Don't you deserve to have peace?
> 
> ...


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Sorry when I read bubble bath I thought you were going to make an analogy, but when you didn't I decided to make one for you.
> 
> Say you love to take bubble baths with your spouse, that is your thing. Then one day the spouse takes a big old dump right in the middle of your bath together. Now why would you stay in the bath with them? Would you ever bathe with them again?
> 
> ...


I love it!  


Torninhalf said:


> I think that is what I have the hardest time with now. All the plans..the decisions made over the years so we could retire and enjoy our grandkids...


It's hard to realize your dreams were built on sand and watch them crumble. I'm sorry _hugs_


Torninhalf said:


> I thought a lot of things. 😂
> It was not the first time he has suggested swinging. I have no interest in it.
> I think he suggested it mostly to assuage his own guilt. To make us even...except for they lying and sneaking around part.
> He did more damage with that suggestion especially because we had extensive conversations about it.
> He said as long as I didn’t fall in love he was ok with it. 😏


The ****er know he has no moral high ground and wanted to bring you down to his level, so he can stop feeling deficient. It's all abput him, not you.


Torninhalf said:


> He can’t imagine I would ever stop loving him...🤷🏼‍♀️


Time to pay the piper, dumbass!


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I feel like this will be me...


Eventually I got to the point where I didn't feel anything at seeing him. We can both attend our kid's school events and it's no big deal. It just takes a while to get there.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies.
> 
> Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.
> 
> ...


I do see things like you. I believe if someone lies to a person with the purpose of gaining a sexual relationship it is in the same ball park as sexual assault. Is it as bad as rape no of course not but lying to someone to get them to have sex with you if the would say no knowing the truth is a form of sexual assault. 

For example, a woman has a rule she only sleeps with people she is in a serious committed relationship with. A guy knowing this goes on a few dates with her and starts telling her how much he is falling for her and he has never felt this way about a woman and he doesn't wants an exclusive relationship. Now in a committed relationship she decides to sleep with him. After he gets in her pants a few times he ghosts her, and she finds out he was seeing other women the whole time. I do consider this to be a betrayal similar to drugging her or getting her blackout drunk to get her to bed. She can't give informed consent because she is basing her decision on a lie told with the intention of having sex with her.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> I love it!
> 
> It's hard to realize your dreams were built on sand and watch them crumble. I'm sorry _hugs_
> 
> ...


Indeed it is long past time. I am grateful my anger has subsided. That phase lasted way too long...😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> Eventually I got to the point where I didn't feel anything at seeing him. We can both attend our kid's school events and it's no big deal. It just takes a while to get there.


Indifference is what I feel now. No expectations on working things out has cleared up the road in front of me sort of speak.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I do see things like you. I believe if someone lies to a person with the purpose of gaining a sexual relationship it is in the same ball park as sexual assault. Is it as bad as rape no of course not but lying to someone to get them to have sex with you if the would say no knowing the truth is a form of sexual assault.
> 
> For example, a woman has a rule she only sleeps with people she is in a serious committed relationship with. A guy knowing this goes on a few dates with her and starts telling her how much he is falling for her and he has never felt this way about a woman and he doesn't wants an exclusive relationship. Now in a committed relationship she decides to sleep with him. After he gets in her pants a few times he ghosts her, and she finds out he was seeing other women the whole time. I do consider this to be a betrayal similar to drugging her or getting her blackout drunk to get her to bed. She can't give informed consent because she is basing her decision on a lie told with the intention of having sex with her.


He took away my agency. Took away my choice. The worst was him telling me he no longer even spoke with her. She was nice enough to clear that up after I called her a cum dumpster...not nice I know but she got angry enough to spill the beans that they still talked about how to manage me. They were conspiring behind my back and he was still running to her for emotional support.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> He took away my agency. Took away my choice. The worst was him telling me he no longer even spoke with her. She was nice enough to clear that up after I called her a cum dumpster...not nice I know but she got angry enough to spill the beans that they still talked about how to manage me. They were conspiring behind my back and he was still running to her for emotional support.


WHOA! This is a HUGE betrayal of trust. He's lucky you weren't the kind of wo,an to shoot his ass or lop off his ****.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> WHOA! This is a HUGE betrayal of trust. He's lucky you weren't the kind of wo,an to shoot his ass or lop off his ****.


I’m glad you feel the same way. They still worked together after the affair came to light. He swore that they didn’t speak. I did tell his AP’s boyfriend what went on. We spoke a number of times and he felt like they were not having contact. Turns out every time we fought, when we went to marriage counseling he filled her in. It’s funny cause my husbands side chick was telling me how much he loves me. 😂


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So I had a discussion with my husband over the weekend about sex and the lies.
> 
> Clearly my husband doesn’t have the same mindset as me regarding all that has transpired since his affair came to light.
> 
> ...


If a man I was with cheated I honestly dont think I could ever have sex with him again and the trust would be gone. So for me there really would be no marriage left.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> If a man I was with cheated I honestly dont think I could ever have sex with him again and the trust woud be gone. So for me there really would be no marriage left.


I thought the very same thing until it happened to me...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I think that is what I have the hardest time with now. All the plans..the decisions made over the years so we could retire and enjoy our grandkids...


Yet so many manage it after long marriages.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I thought the very same thing until it happened to me...


My first husband of 23 years didnt committ adultery but he did things that were just dreadful. Once I found out I knew that the marriage was over, there was no going back. I asked him to leave the day I found out. The trust was shattered and I knew that the marriage was done. I dont know how you can stay with a man who lies and cheats and treats you with such disprespect. I would far rather be alone.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I think that is what I have the hardest time with now. All the plans..the decisions made over the years so we could retire and enjoy our grandkids...


Let me put another thought in your head. You do the very same plans with someone who isn't a liar and wants to do them with you. Your grandkids are not even going to remember you being married. This will be their normal. 

My biological Grandfather died when my Mom we very young. My Mom's step father who entered her life as a teenager was my Grandfather. I am proud to be his Grand kid. He was a great man. 

So will it be with you, even if you both remarry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> She absolutely is better off and she knows it.
> 
> She's glad he forced the issue because she does think she would have left him. She was definitely codependent.
> 
> She says she'll never engage in thar lifestyle again.


But what if the guy she met while swinging wants to again eventually?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Let me put another thought in your head. You do the very same plans with someone who isn't a liar and wants to do them with you. Your grandkids are not even going to remember you being married. This will be their normal.
> 
> My biological Grandfather died when my Mom we very young. My Mom's step father who entered her life as a teenager was my Grandfather. I am proud to be his Grand kid. He was a great man.
> 
> So will it be with you, even if you both remarry.


I agree it will be their normal. I can’t imagine ever having someone else in my life that I would share hopes and dreams with. That is too far fetched. 😂


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I agree it will be their normal. I can’t imagine ever having someone else in my life that I would share hopes and dreams with. That is too far fetched. 😂


I was there once. Then I got married. (Over a decade ago). It's not far fetched, it happens all the time. 

Besides having a happy, stable life is not dependent on that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I was there once. Then I got married. (Over a decade ago). It's not far fetched, it happens all the time.
> 
> Besides having a happy, stable life is not dependent on that.


It took me a while to realize that I was ok with myself and by myself. 37 years...co-dependency and abandonment issues from childhood all factored in so it took me way longer than I would have liked.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

sokillme said:


> It's also hilarious.
> 
> This is my new quote -
> 
> Never take a bubble bath with a person who would crap in it.


This doesn't contribute to the discussion, sorry.

Both of my kids pooped in the tub when they were toddlers during a bubble baths.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hiner112 said:


> This doesn't contribute to the discussion, sorry.
> 
> Both of my kids pooped in the tub when they were toddlers during a bubble baths.


And probably at the same level of emotional maturity of most adulterers.


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