# New to reconciliation and already confused.



## Jharm

Hey everyone, 

My ordeal has been going on for months now but my wife just moved out saturday. You can read my original post here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/227626-confused-need-advice.html

So the night before she moved out she was freaking out and crying about leaving. So Saturday comes, and she moves. As soon as she is gone she starts texting me that she made a mistake, she wishes she wouldn't have gotten this apt. She was basically begging me to work things out with her, she even agreed to go to counseling. I have been trying for 5 months to get her to go to individual and marriage counseling but she wouldn't do it, she chose to just leave me instead. 

I have been in individual counseling for about 3-4 months now. 

So anyway, I agreed and said yes we can go to counseling and work on us but I noticed yesterday that she wasn't as desperate sounding and acting the same way she was on Saturday. Today is she saying that she still wants to try counseling but I don't feel secure with her. I have this feeling that she is realizing that she is better off without me. I don't know if I should just cut off communication with her for a while or go to counseling. 

I am so confused!


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## EasyPartner

J,

No wonder you are confused. Everybody would.

About the counseling. If you really want a chance of rescuing any of this mess, go. 3 things can happen.

Either she doesn't really mean it and does it only to scratch it of the list.

Or you guys may actually make it.

Or you give it an honest try but fail at it.

Anyway, you have nothing to loose.

If you go NC now, you're pulling the plug yourself, IMO.

But by all means, keep breathing and stay calm bro.


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## TheHappyGuy

I would definitely go to counselling since it is already arranged. It can provide clarity for both of you if you actually want this relationship and if so how to improve it. If your partners doesn't want the relationship she might get some tools in counselling how to separate properly. At the moment she is messing with your head and that's unfair. 

BTW, from your other thread it appears that she is not willing to work on the relationship. She accuses you of making you cry but doesn't give any specifics. For her to get in contact again with her old flatmate and throwing you under the bus was unfair and you were rightfully upset. She should be able to see your point (sometime after the fight, not immediately) and concede that she was wrong. It sounds like she is unable to do that.


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## tacoma

Jharm said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> My ordeal has been going on for months now but my wife just moved out saturday. You can read my original post here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/227626-confused-need-advice.html
> 
> So the night before she moved out she was freaking out and crying about leaving. So Saturday comes, and she moves. As soon as she is gone she starts texting me that she made a mistake, she wishes she wouldn't have gotten this apt. She was basically begging me to work things out with her, she even agreed to go to counseling. I have been trying for 5 months to get her to go to individual and marriage counseling but she wouldn't do it, she chose to just leave me instead.
> 
> I have been in individual counseling for about 3-4 months now.
> 
> So anyway, I agreed and said yes we can go to counseling and work on us but I noticed yesterday that she wasn't as desperate sounding and acting the same way she was on Saturday. Today is she saying that she still wants to try counseling but I don't feel secure with her. I have this feeling that she is realizing that she is better off without me. I don't know if I should just cut off communication with her for a while or go to counseling.
> 
> I am so confused!


She moved out.
The reality of life without you smacked her hard in the face.

She freaked out, called you crying, distraught.
You comforted her, confirmed you were still there on that string waiting to catch her when her scary new life all came crumbling down.

Because you've all but confirmed she's got a net under that high wire she no longer needs to keep looking down to make sure it's there for her.

Cut her loose for good with a few harsh (very harsh) conditions for return and you might just get your wife back....eventually.


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## Jharm

Thanks guys.

I am having such a hard time. I am trying to fight these tears as I am write this now. Yesterday was not only Thanksgiving but also our wedding anniversary so it was a VERY hard day for me. I spent most of it laying in bed crying. I have never wanted to be married before her for this reason, the heartbreak that comes with love. 

She says she wants to still try and go to counseling but her actions towards me say otherwise. Granted she has been busy at work, she is a nurse and works 12 hour shifts so she can't text much but still.

I woke up yesterday morning to a text that said "Happy Thanksgiving and Anniversary".. no i love you, nothing. I can admit that i went into full crazy mode and have been texting her nonstop annoying the crap out of her but I cant get myself to stop. I have no self control right now. She will text me and say I love you and MIss you sometimes but not too much other. Most of her texts are short. I have been texting a lot asking if she is sure she still wants to try on us and go to counseling which she says yes. I keep annoying her with texts like "why cant you just show me anything that proves you actually want to try".. Things like that. I know I am being totally crazy right now. She did text me and say "i love you with my whole heart and soul, you are everything to me". but those are so random and far and few in between. 

I feel like I would do anything to see her, even if it were just for 5 minutes. She said she was too tired to come over yesterday (our anniversary) cuz she had just worked 12 hours, so I was gonna go over to her apt but she basically said no bc she thought I was gonna come over and just talk about everything that is going on. I probably would have brought it up but really I just want to see my wife.

She came over on Tuesday and she was crying and super upset bc she missed me. She said if she had the choice to go back and get the apt again she wouldn't. So I am so confused. I get nothing from her during the day probably cuz shes so busy her mind doesnt miss me but I'm here with nothing else to do but go crazy!!

I know I need to stop all contact bc she has full control and knows that she has me in the palm of her hands right now.

How do you actually stop yourself from sending those texts??? I try to tell myself that if she actually wanted to talk to me, she would. If she actually wanted to see me, she would. But it breaks my heart over again everyday when she doesnt show me any kind of love. 

Please help me!!!!


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## ConanHub

Is she seeing someone else? Seriously.

You don't have to accept things on her terms if you don't want to.

I know you love her but she is putting you through hell and stringing you along. What the hell has she done to prove she wants to work it out with you?

Is she even worried that she is pushing you away? That you might just find a more enthusiastic partner?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jharm

ConanHub said:


> Is she seeing someone else? Seriously.
> 
> You don't have to accept things on her terms if you don't want to.
> 
> I know you love her but she is putting you through hell and stringing you along. What the hell has she done to prove she wants to work it out with you?
> 
> Is she even worried that she is pushing you away? That you might just find a more enthusiastic partner?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think she is seeing someone else but I wouldn't put anything past anyone. its quite possible but why not just tell me?! Just let me go instead of dragging me along. Its just cruel. 

She hasn't done anything to prove that she wants to work it out with me other than telling me. I know what I need to do but how do I do it? How do I stop myself from obsessing over it? How to stop myself from hurting?


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## sammy3

OP, 

I am sorry you are hurting. Believe me, many of us know only all to well the exact feeling, action, and emotions you are going thur. It's horrible... try to hang in there. 

I would first find out if she is seeing someone. She might have gotten the apt when she was. If so, that relationship might be rocky and the reason why she is up & down with you. This is just my guess. 

~sammy


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## ConanHub

Start treating yourself good. Focus on you. Plan things with friends and family that have nothing to do with her and everything to do with you.

Stop answering her calls or texts, block her if you have to. Get some friends to help if needed. Start having some fun just for you! Be selfish!

If you alpha up a bit, it will do wonders. I would not do any of this in hopes of winning her back. Do it all for yourself. Stop supporting her in any way!

As a side effect, you might draw her interest again but that is a side issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Have you read the 180? Should be your bible right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jharm

I have read the 180 and I have convinced myself that I will do that but I can't get myself to do it. I know I am being weak and pathetic. Today I have been much better. Yesterday was the worst but today I realized that I am better than the way she is treating me.

I honestly don't think she is seeing anyone else bc she is always at work or around me. Well before she moved out, around me. She got the apt 6 weeks ago but her move in date wasnt until Nov 22 so that entire 6 weeks she was still at the house. We still had our money together so I saw her paychecks come into our bank account and it reflected the hours that she was actually working. And when she wasn't at work she was home. If she were seeing someone else then it sucks for them bc they never got to see her or text her bc she didn't really text much either. I always paid the bills so I saw her credit card bill as well and it showed nothing out of the ordinary. I have even snooped at her cell phone bill to see the numbers she was texting but they were all normal ones that I know. Maybe she is just THAT good at hiding an affair. OR she is having an emotional affair. OR her annoying a$$ friend is yapping away in her ear. While she was still in the house for 6 weeks, she would cry a lot about her decision to leave, she would want me to sleep next to her, we would act like a married couple. After she moved out, she told me that she wanted me to realize that I need her and miss her. Umm she didn't need to move out for me to prove that to her. For 5 months since all this started I have done everything I could to fix us. I immediately enrolled in therapy and completely stopped drinking. She even admits that I have been so much better since that first day she told me she wanted to leave. 

She has told me that she has never cheated before and she wouldn't start with me but words don't mean anything these days.


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## Jharm

Also, during this no contact, if she texts me and says I love you.. How do I respond to that? Do I ignore it? I know her and she is going to ask why I'm ignoring her. Do I answer?!? 

I told her the other day that if she really loved me and knows that she can't work it out with me then to please just let me go and I dont want to have any contact with her so I can heal. She said something along the lines of "So if im upset about everything, you wont text me back?"


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## ConanHub

Tell her this separation is not going to work for you. That you are only willing to work on your relationship if she is on board. She left not you!

Tell her it is too painful to be strung along by her and you deserve better treatment. Tell her to stop contacting you at all until she is on your doorstep, ready to move back in. Then, cut all ties with her and block everything.

You are actually helping her have her cake and eat it too.

She may not have an AP yet but I guarantee she has a toxic friend or two that is egging her on and providing emotional support.

You need to make it very clear that you will not be a backup plan or second to anyone in anyway.

The only way to do this is to remove your love from her life completely! Value yourself and others will as well.

Your wife could honestly use a little competition for your affections. It would do both of you good for her to see you as desirable.

Work on yourself and for yourself. Take your focus off her. She is not some treasure. She is flesh and blood and needs to not be put on a pedestal.

Be someone admirable and she will probably admire you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jharm

Thank you! You have no idea how much better you have made me feel today by taking the time to respond to me!!

You are absolutely right about everything. The only way to feel better about myself is to not let her do this to me anymore.


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## ConanHub

No problem brother. I definitely had the time to give and glad to be supportive.

Hang in there. What I told you to do is extremely effective but hard to implement. Don't feel bad if you're having a hard time. Just keep getting back on track and pretty soon you will really like who you see in the mirror.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Jharm said:


> Also, during this no contact, if she texts me and says I love you.. How do I respond to that? Do I ignore it? I know her and she is going to ask why I'm ignoring her. Do I answer?!?


Block her calls and texts. Problem solved.



Jharm said:


> I told her the other day that if she really loved me and knows that she can't work it out with me then to please just let me go and I dont want to have any contact with her so I can heal. She said something along the lines of "So if im upset about everything, you wont text me back?"


Your logic is sound. Now hold her to it. Go NC and stick w/ it.

And just so you know... statistically speaking, teachers and nurses lead other professions where infidelity numbers are concerned.


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## Jharm

I am going to try my hardest to do no contact. Today I went car shopping and left my phone at home, so that is a step in the right direction.


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## ConanHub

Jharm said:


> I am going to try my hardest to do no contact. Today I went car shopping and left my phone at home, so that is a step in the right direction.


Great work!&#55357;&#56842;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3

Jharm, 


...and you tell her, she has a "choice" in this marriage too. If what you are offering as a married couple doesn't work for her, then she has to make that decisions for herself, you cant do that for her. 

~sammy


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## Jharm

well basically she has told me that she doesn't think she can ever forgive me for the times I was mean to her and made her cry. So now she doesn't want to go to counseling. Well her words are "I want to I just dont if I can ever forgive you".

So her solution is to not try? If you tell someone you are in love with them, wouldn't you want to try everything to have that person in your life?! I don't think she is truly in love with me.

And now she has been ignoring me. I am starting to think maybe she has someone else but when I ask her that she just gets mad at me. She left today to go visit her family, and I know shes on the road already bc we share an EZPASS account and I can see that she has already gone thru tolls. She wont answer my calls or texts. Why? Why is she being so cruel to me?! 

I asked her to just tell me if she really isn't in love with me and if she has someone else bc it is the right thing to do. But nothing, no answer NOTHING! 

It is so painful.


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## the guy

Why in the hell are letting someone control you like this?

It's time you get out and do things for your self and just let her go. I mean any chick putting you thru this much mind phuck just isn't worth it.

You know you can meet someone that will make you happy!

Wake the hell up.....your old lady is just not worth it ....after all the crap she has done to you and you want more?????REALLY!


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## Jharm

the guy said:


> Why in the hell are letting someone control you like this?
> 
> It's time you get out and do things for your self and just let her go. I mean any chick putting you thru this much mind phuck just isn't worth it.
> 
> You know you can meet someone that will make you happy!
> 
> Wake the hell up.....your old lady is just not worth it ....after all the crap she has done to you and you want more?????REALLY!



I know. I am absolutely ridiculous! It is so much easier said than done to put a stop to it but after the way she has treated me the last few days I have finally had enough. I have said this before but I let her sucker me back in but I need to have some self respect and stop letting someone do me this way. 

Why would anyone want to hurt someone this way in the first place, let alone someone you "love"? I don't know, I just don't have it in me to treat people that way. 

I have stopped texting her completely. she texted me to ask if I could help her set up her bills to come out of her own account. Really? You treat me like sh!t and now you need me to help you set up automatic payments!? You wanted to be without me so figure out how to be on your own, on your own!! 

I am looking forward to Thursday when I have my counseling appt; she always puts things into perspective for me and helps me out a lot. We missed this past Thursday bc of the holiday. I was in such a good place before the wife moved out but I am an idiot bc I let her sucker me back in that day that she moved out and started texting me all that nonsense.


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## Jharm

oh and I should add that I went out with my friends all night last night and left my phone home. So again, steps in the right direction. But of course, when I came home I had no texts from her. Clearly she doesn't care about me.


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## the guy

Jharm said:


> Clearly she doesn't care about me.


Now you get it!

Why would she need you on a Saturday night when someone else is meeting her needs!

But come Monday when the party is over and real world shows back up she will be looking for you.......and it will have nothing to do with your penis and her virgina.
She took care of hers on Saturday!


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## Jharm

I didn't text her today and I feel just fine. I am just angry really.


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## ConanHub

Good. Keep it up. You are making some progress. Keep caring for yourself. If you can, associate her with ugliness and pain. Might make it easier to stop caring what she thinks.

Anger is a very common cheater response BTW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Her anger at being asked if she is cheating that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other

Jharm said:


> I didn't text her today and I feel just fine. I am just angry really.


Mate, you can do this. 

You said "I have read the 180 and I have convinced myself that I will do that but I can't get myself to do it". Comsider that you can get yourself to spend the day crying in bed and you can manage to cling on to a feeling of loss and pain. Consider which is easier.

Exercise hard. Try meditation. Go out and visit friends for a weekend and do not take your phone with you (a little bit of freedom, you can do such things). You are man enough to do this, but you have to hold faith in yourself.


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## Jharm

Mr The Other said:


> Mate, you can do this.
> 
> You said "I have read the 180 and I have convinced myself that I will do that but I can't get myself to do it". Comsider that you can get yourself to spend the day crying in bed and you can manage to cling on to a feeling of loss and pain. Consider which is easier.
> 
> Exercise hard. Try meditation. Go out and visit friends for a weekend and do not take your phone with you (a little bit of freedom, you can do such things). You are man enough to do this, but you have to hold faith in yourself.


You are very right. I know that when I don't talk to her I feel incredibly better.


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## Mr The Other

Jharm said:


> You are very right. I know that when I don't talk to her I feel incredibly better.


Good man. There are many people who run from the site in a huff when they get a post like that. I suggest working out tomorrow. I will do the same.


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## Mr The Other

ConanHub said:


> Her anger at being asked if she is cheating that is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To be fair, it is not uncommon is someone wrongly accused.


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## Tomara

The one think that really stuck out in your posts was your statement " you want to fix you and her" u can't fix her. I know what you are going through as I to have walked that path..... Fix you, you are in control of you.


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## Jharm

Tomara said:


> The one think that really stuck out in your posts was your statement " you want to fix you and her" u can't fix her. I know what you are going through as I to have walked that path..... Fix you, you are in control of you.


I mean't fix me me and her as a couple not individuals.. Thankfully I have my therapist appt today, I haven't been in 2 weeks bc of the holiday. I have been working on healing myself and I have noticed that since i havent texted her in 2 days, that I feel much better.


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## toonaive

Jharm said:


> I didn't text her today and I feel just fine. I am just angry really.


Never, ever, ever be the first one to contact her. I would also work on getting rid of multiple lines of contact. Whittle it down to one if you need, or none if you can get away with that. If one, preferably one that you can save for future reference if needed. Like an Email. No texting, no phone calls. With an Email, you can read it at your leisure if you wish. The point is, work on controlling how she contacts you. Communication is part of her continued safety net.


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## Jharm

It is killing me but it has been 2 days of not contacting her at all. of course, I am at the mindset of "she must not even miss me". I am strong enough (now) to not contact her bc I realized how much it hurt me when I did. I feel better not talking to her. 

We shall see if she contacts me. You would think she would miss me since a week ago she wanted to try counseling. whatever, maybe she's happier. I do want her to be happy and if that is not with me, then so be it. I will eventually be happy again, myself.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Hang in there, you aren't alone.


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## Mr The Other

Jharm said:


> It is killing me but it has been 2 days of not contacting her at all. of course, I am at the mindset of "she must not even miss me". I am strong enough (now) to not contact her bc I realized how much it hurt me when I did. I feel better not talking to her.
> 
> We shall see if she contacts me. You would think she would miss me since a week ago she wanted to try counseling. whatever, maybe she's happier. I do want her to be happy and if that is not with me, then so be it. I will eventually be happy again, myself.


I know I might sound insensitive, but it is not killing you, it merely feels hellish. If you can, get out the house and run and spend time with friends out of town. 

Hang in there.


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## Jharm

Mr The Other said:


> I know I might sound insensitive, but it is not killing you, it merely feels hellish. If you can, get out the house and run and spend time with friends out of town.
> 
> Hang in there.


Yup, I am still alive lol. I had my therapist yesterday and she was disappointed that I had regressed. The thursday before my wife moved out I was in a good place, my therapist was proud of that but then I let my wife suck my back in. I still haven't reached out to her. It hurts but its ok. I am not as desperate as this weekend!! 

I am just wondering if she even misses me?? Do they miss you on no contact?! She told me she was in love with me 4 days ago and goes on to delete me out of her life (on social media). Does a spouse who leaves actually feel pain of not talking and texting all day like they are use to?? Does it make her feel good when I send her those needy pathetic texts begging her to come home! I wont make that mistake again. It just blows my mind how you can say youre in love wtih someone but then not care about them.


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## Mr The Other

Jharm said:


> Yup, I am still alive lol. I had my therapist yesterday and she was disappointed that I had regressed. The thursday before my wife moved out I was in a good place, my therapist was proud of that but then I let my wife suck my back in. I still haven't reached out to her. It hurts but its ok. I am not as desperate as this weekend!!
> 
> I am just wondering if she even misses me?? Do they miss you on no contact?! She told me she was in love with me 4 days ago and goes on to delete me out of her life (on social media). Does a spouse who leaves actually feel pain of not talking and texting all day like they are use to?? Does it make her feel good when I send her those needy pathetic texts begging her to come home! I wont make that mistake again. It just blows my mind how you can say youre in love wtih someone but then not care about them.


Here comes some cod-psychology.

Why do you wonder whether your wife misses you? I imagine it is because you want to feel significant to her. Why do you want to feel significant to her? To have some reassurance that you are signficant perhaps. 

So you do you need that reassurance? Because deep down you have the idea that you are not really significant and do not matter. My friend, that is a very, very silly, stupid, and yet destructive idea. If it is there, it will have affected many of your relationships.

I could be completely wrong. I am an amateur playing a professional's game.


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## Jharm

I give up on trying to R. 

I'm done.


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## ButtPunch

Jharm said:


> I give up on trying to R.
> 
> Good.
> 
> I'm done.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jharm

It has been a few months since I've been here. I wanted to put out an update.

My wife and I haven't seen each other in 3 months. We have only texted a handful of times. I have made so much progress in moving on with my life. I have met other girls and just been having fun. Of course, I still have my weak moments and hurt but for the most part I am ok.

This all changed this week. We were texting about taxes and it turned into small talk and joking. Yesterday she asked me to come over and have sex. So, of course I did!! She said to me "This isn't going to make everything more difficult for you is it? Like texting me all the time?".. Caught me off guard but ok.. No, I am ok with hooking up. Well at least that is what I say now. I have made great progress in healing and I don't want to go back to that pain ever again. So when we first kissed last night she started crying. And then when we went to bed, she fell asleep in my arms with me running my fingers through her hair, just like old times. 

I don't know what to think. I don't want to get back to that dark place. 

Any advice or anyone who has been there - done that before?


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## Mr.Fisty

Do not engage until she works on her issues. If she wants the relationship and if you want togive her another chance, she has to prove that she has grown up as well.

Unfortunately, you are not guaranteed not to go through that pain again. Having an attachment is a double-edged sword, it can be fulfilling and bring on suffering. There always has to be an independent part of you that is just yours alone, separate from your wife. If things do not turn out, at least you will have that, and know that you are not totally reliant on your wife. I believe she is still conflicted, and it will only screw with your head. You need to keep an emotional distance from her to stop yourself from going through her turmoil as well.


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## Jharm

Thank you once again for the great words of advice! 

No more engaging! If she wants me she will reach out to me, if not she won't. 

We went nearly 3 months without seeing each other. I was proud of my progress of how far I had moved past this.


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## cdbaker

So... where do you stand today? All kinds of thoughts came to mind while reading through this thread:

1. You were insanely clingy, even while she was telling you exactly what you were wanting to hear.

2. It sounds like your wife was involved in some capacity with someone else, even if only an EA. I know she's a nurse, and is busy, but most people can find ways to engage with others without their spouse knowing. Especially if the other person is a co-worker. If she's involved with another person, it makes COMPLETE sense how she could be compelled to text/contact you like crazy one moment, and go dark for days or even weeks the next moment. Most women struggle more than men do with the notion of being alone, so it isn't until they feel some degree of confidence in another budding relationship before they're willing to jump ship from the old one. You're wife changing her mind immediately after moving out, going from contact overload to zero contact and back again, and reaching out to you out of the blue for sex and then crying, all of these episodes point very clearly to someone else being involved in the picture.

3. Relationally speaking, where are you at today? Is a divorce pending in the courts? Do you both have lawyers? Have you both agreed to start seeing other people? Has she stated at any point that she is no longer interested in reconciliation?

4. You mentioned "meeting other girls" which, on some level I can't really blame you. It's a reactionary move as a way to dull the pain/fear of a crumbling relationship, and I've been there before. With that said however, you also won't be realizing any real personal growth or healing as long as you are skirt chasing, just FYI, so you might want to consider taking some time off from that eventually.

5. It sounds like your wife isn't at all interested in reconciling the relationship. Her asking you if having sex will make this more difficult for you is her way of reinforcing that she believes the marriage is over, and only wanted a bit of sex for "old times sake" and doesn't want you to get the wrong idea. Her crying during a kiss or falling asleep cuddling is just her shedding a tear over the past and enjoying the moment, but a bit of physical intimacy isn't going to change her mind on anything once she is awake in the morning. In your state of mind however, I could easily see this dragging you right back into that dark place you are afraid of, so I would HIGHLY recommend that you not engage with your wife in this way again going forward unless she has a serious change of heart.


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## Jharm

Since the last time I posted she has told me that she misses me and loves me and now wants to go to marriage counseling to see if we can save our marriage. I am at the point where I don't know if I even want that anymore. I was happy without her. When she first left, I was having bad anxiety but as soon as I let that go and try to move on for myself, I realized that I can be happy and live a good life without her. We have been hanging out a lot and it feels nice but at the same time I see the same behaviors in her that I didn't like in our marriage. For example, she is a victim. She will never see that she did anything wrong. It is all my fault. I told her that I know the things that I need to improve on to save our marriage and I asked if she could think of any that she could improve on and she didn't know. It is because in her mind she was this amazing wife. In reality, she has her flaws just like anyone else in the world. She up and left me without even attempting marriage counseling bc "we shouldn't need it a year into our marriage"... Well yeah maybe we shouldn't but if you love someone you do what you can. You fight till the end. 

She has told me that she was sad everyday, she cried just about everyday. She misses me blah blah blah. She does cry when we have serious conversations about us but she cries all the time anyway. She is very young, 23 and it really shows. Very emotionally immature. I don't know if I can get past that. 

I forgot to mention in all of this that I have a 4 year old son (her stepson) that she adored (apparently) and he loved her so much. She walked out and never once asked to see him. Never texted me to ask about him. Nothing. That is pretty hurtful.

She won't admit to having anyone else while we were together. She denies it. So who knows, I wouldn't put it past her honestly.

We can't file for divorce in my state until we have lived apart for a full year. So, we can't file until November.


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## Cynthia

If she is unwilling to admit to her part, then she cannot change anything she is doing to destroy the marriage, because she refuses to face it. If that is the case, you are the only one working on the marriage and that doesn't work.
Why does she want to go to marriage counseling?


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## Jharm

I have no idea why now she wants to do marriage counseling. Maybe she was dating someone and they left her so now she's lonely. I really have no idea. She just says she missed me when I ask her why. She says she can't see her future without me. A part of me wants to say, then why did you pack up and leave without trying.

I have faced my faults and have made an effort while hanging out with her to be better. I have been in individual counseling since the day she told me she wanted to leave me back in August. I go every week and it has helped me tremendously but I guess she isn't ready to see that she too played a role in the failure of this marriage. I can't help her see that. She will have to work on herself before she can ever be happy with anyone.


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## Cynthia

Jharm said:


> I have no idea why now she wants to do marriage counseling. Maybe she was dating someone and they left her so now she's lonely. I really have no idea. She just says she missed me when I ask her why. She says she can't see her future without me. A part of me wants to say, then why did you pack up and leave without trying.
> 
> I have faced my faults and have made an effort while hanging out with her to be better. I have been in individual counseling since the day she told me she wanted to leave me back in August. I go every week and it has helped me tremendously but I guess she isn't ready to see that she too played a role in the failure of this marriage. I can't help her see that. She will have to work on herself before she can ever be happy with anyone.


Have you told her that she needs to see and acknowledge her role in the demise of your marriage?
If you don't want to be married to her and were happy without her, why are you hanging out with her now? It seems like you are wasting your time if you don't see a future with her.


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## cdbaker

In her defense (let's call this devil's advocate for now), I had no idea how many areas in which I had failed my wife and marriage until I actually got into counseling, especially marriage counseling in particular. Prior to that, I really thought I was a pretty fantastic husband. Figuring out the ways that I had blown it in my marriage, and how I could do better in the future, had an enormous impact on me going forward. So I wouldn't be concerned about her not being able to see her own faults in the situation just yet, until she's had some time in counseling to try to figure that out.

I'll repeat again however that it was marriage counseling with my wife in particular that helped me figure this stuff out the most. Individual counseling helped somewhat, but you've got to remember that an individual counselor only has one source of information, which is you, and you are naturally incredibly biased. Granted, they are trained to try to see through that sort of thing, but the bottom line is still that you are their only source of information so it's going to be hard. For example, if there was a particularly glaring fault you exhibited once a year ago, but you don't agree that it was that bad, you'll probably leave that story out of your independent sessions, because we as human beings naturally want to be approved of by others and not be judged for our failings, so we'll be more likely to highlight our qualities and minimize our failures.


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## Jharm

My therapist told me to say this "I know things that I need to do better at to improve our marriage, can you think of anything that you can improve on" so I did and she said I don't know... after that I did mention to her that there are things she can improve on too and she went off on me saying "I have flaws but my flaws are not bad enough to divorce someone over", taking a shot at me - basically saying my flaws are so bad that she had to leave me. 

So I am going to try counseling with her bc I do love her very much and would love to save my marriage. I am hopeful that once in counseling she will see that there are things she can improve on. If not, then I will walk away.


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## jb02157

I honestly think that counseling does no good. I've been involved with it and it only sought to find fault with me. She was never calls out as doing anything wrong. I find that it's mostly female based. The first thing that the counselor said was "we have to establish your wife and being on her own". Seems that the counseling already had a defined endpoint. 

I agree that she freaked out the first day because the cold reality of not having around was setting in. I would recommend not being in contact with her. If she wants to move out, fine let her. I don't think that you need her to make you miserable anymore.


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## Jharm

This is just a joke really. I have never been treated so bad by one person before in my entire life. I am so confused on what the h*ll she is doing. 

She tells me she loves me, wants to work on us, misses me, blah blah blah yet ignores me... again. She hardly talks to me. Decided she isn't going to do counseling. What is this woman's deal?? 

I need to just not even try anymore and just move on with my life. Everything was going great until I let her back in and take me 10 steps back.


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## Cynthia

She treats you badly. You were doing much better without her. If you are finished, then let her know that and stop contact. Do not call or contact her in any way and do not respond to any attempts she makes to contact you. Based on the past, it would help if you blocked her number.
I'm sorry this has been so hard on you.


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## Jharm

I just feel like such a fool bc I was doing so well. Since the moment she left, I thought I wanted her back to when she said she wanted me back I basically fell at her feet like an idiot. She sucked me back in. I don't know if it makes her feel better or what. I wish I were stronger when it comes to her. I know that I need to be and I HAVE to be but it is easier said than done. 

At least this let down, I am not as heartbroken as I was the day she left me. Maybe because I know that I can survive bc I have in the past.


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## Cynthia

Loving someone does not make you an idiot. You gave this woman your heart. It's not so easy to just take it back. The fact that you have chosen to do what is right to not allow her to continue to hurt you shows that you are not a fool.


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## aine

Jharm said:


> I just feel like such a fool bc I was doing so well. Since the moment she left, I thought I wanted her back to when she said she wanted me back I basically fell at her feet like an idiot. She sucked me back in. I don't know if it makes her feel better or what. I wish I were stronger when it comes to her. I know that I need to be and I HAVE to be but it is easier said than done.
> 
> At least this let down, I am not as heartbroken as I was the day she left me. Maybe because I know that I can survive bc I have in the past.


You are not a fool, you just want your relationship to work but now you know what she is really like. Time to set the boundaries and stop looking to the past and move on with your life. Time will heal the wounds.


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## Lostinthought61

It sounds like your plan B, she is keeping you on the line until she figures out what she wants....time to cut the line and see what really happens


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## Jharm

One of my friends sent me a screenshot of my wife on Tinder. lol.. that's nice. I honestly can't do anything but laugh at this point and move on. I am just tired of it all. I have no desire to get back together with her; she has shown me who she really is. Seeing her on Tinder really was the final straw and just made me not care at all anymore. I just want my divorce and be completely gone from her. I haven't had any communication with her in at least a week or so.


Oh and today is my son's 4th birthday (she loved him so much blah blah) she hasn't once asked about him since the day she moved out. Not even today.


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## Cynthia

Going back and forth with her will only hurt your son. It is best to let it be done and move forward. I hope you can cut all contact.


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## Jharm

Yeah I haven't been in contact with her and no longer have a desire to talk to her, see her, ect..


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## Cynthia

Jharm said:


> Yeah I haven't been in contact with her and no longer have a desire to talk to her, see her, ect..


Good for you.


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## LongWalk

Tinder's like Facebook for casual sex, right?


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## Jharm

I don't know if it is for sex or to just meet and date or whatever. 

and now she is back to her "I'm not over our marriage" "I cry every day and night"... I have her blocked on the phone so she has been emailing me that. I just don't respond. I'm over her games.


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## LongWalk

Sounds as if there would never be an end to her desire for attention.


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## Dogbert

She's a master at emotional manipulation. She makes you feel guilty for your flaws so she separates and doesn't contact you for months not even to ask if you are ok. She changes her name back to her maiden name. And she calls you crying and saying she feels so sad yada yada yada.

Here's my take. She is a cake eater who wants the benefits of being single and being married. She probably had a fling or more during the no contact 3 months. They end and then calls you to make sure you are still pining for her. Her behavior is not of a woman who wants to be a wife in deed but in name only.

The sooner you divorce her and she no longer contacts you, the better off you will be.


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## Cynthia

Jharm said:


> I don't know if it is for sex or to just meet and date or whatever.
> 
> and now she is back to her "I'm not over our marriage" "I cry every day and night"... I have her blocked on the phone so she has been emailing me that. I just don't respond. I'm over her games.


Good for you. Stand your ground.
What have you been doing with yourself? Do you have people to hang out with? Do you have any hobbies?


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## Jharm

Yeah, I have been hanging out with my friends a lot. It has helped me to overcome this bs. I am so ready to be divorced but still have to wait until November until I can even file. Maryland makes it hard to divorce!


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## Cynthia

Good. Being with people who are uplifting makes a huge difference in how people handle other relationships that are difficult.
Be patient. This should be over with by this time next year. It will give you time to heal and be prepared.


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## LongWalk

She sounds like a sufferer of BPD


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