# Marriage is imploding



## jdiuwl33 (May 1, 2012)

Hi, I found this forum some months ago as my marriage is in bad shape and I am looking for help. I have so much to say but I am not sure how to say it or where to start. Its not very well set out and and I couldn't possibly list everything in my first post. I am better at responding then talking / posting so its a bit of a ramble 

I am 35 and my wife is 28 and it truly was love a first sight. We have been together for 12 years married for 7 and we have 2 wonderful kids 7 and 2. Jill (fictional name.) is the most loving caring person I have ever met, she will do anything for anyone and will always put others first me she has a beautiful soul and I love her so much it hurts, and yet I am close to walking away.

Most of our issues stem from me and I freely admit that, however her actions towards me amplify my issues to the point it is destroying our marriage. Hears some of my history to give an idea of my mental health?.

Growing up I was a very small child, when I left school at 17 I was what your could say still pre -pubescent. At that point I was mentally mature, beyond my years, physically I was an embarrassment. Finished school I was 150cm and about 45kg. Being so small I was the object of immense teasing, bullying and ridicule. For the most part I was able to laugh past it and cry in silence during alone times. I never had a GF or even kissed a girl during school. I wasn't ugly but what girl my own age wanted to be with a person who looked like they were in primary school and what younger girl would go out with an older male that looked younger than them. I had alcoholic abusive father, a mother who didn't care what we did and brothers that use to beat on me. My depression, insecurities and low self esteem started there.

I started dating Jill when I was 23, she was my first girlfriend and due to my issues I always felt that I didn't deserve her, that she was too good for me. Over the years I have been cruel and mean to her, I've said alot of things that I shouldn't have , not because I don't love her but because in a twisted way I truly believe that she would be better off without me. My issues control me in a disgusting way I treat the person I love the most in the worst possible way cause I think subconsciously I am trying to make her hate me / leave me so that she can be better off.

All my fears / issues are compounded by the fact that while she is a wonderful person, I feel she doesn't treat me like she treats everyone else. She forgets me, ignores me and just plain doesn't listen to me. Jill is a very independent person and feels that I am telling her to do stuff when I am merely suggesting stuff. If I make a suggestion it is normally met with a I'll think about, ( and it is promptly forgotten) If someone else makes the same suggestion Jill tends to go with it and admits it is good for her. It is a vicious circle and we cant seem to get out of it.

Jill believes that she only has to do stuff for her and she will do it cause "she wants to do it" and doesn't believe that she should do things for me her husband. Ie is it unreasonable for a husband to suggest their partner to dress nicer for work and for outside work hours. Note: She is finally dressing more corporate like for her work and is loving the new look, It took me over 4 years to to talk her around. Another unreasonable request, I would dearly love to see my wife in nice garter and stockings, Look sexy feel sexy for her and it would drive me absolutely crazy. But she wont do things for me only for herself or other people. If you cant do things to please your partner what is the point of being together.

Our Troubles recently escalated when she went to a work course and was befriended by a young gentleman. I expressed concerns over this relationship ( I have trust issues as most people I know have cheated or been cheated on which is magnified by my other issues ), She defended by saying I am jealous, that she is a big girl and can make decisions for herself and you know I make friends easier with males then girls. They chat every day, when she doesn't like it when I send her text messages as she is working however she can chat multiple times to her new friend every day as they have instant messaging between offices, I have since discovered that they have been text messaging and sending pictures to each other. I called her out on it and she lied about it. She had deleted all there correspondence on her phone ( the phone log showed the deleted messages but not there content.) I have been seeing a psychologist lately for my depression / issues and during a group session we discussed that I am fine with there friendship as I believe she is has good intentions and is only trying to make friends, I have doubts about him so agreed that complete transparency would be good for me. The Next day she sent him a picture after a Girls night out ( the GNO caused another issue) and deleted the message and log from her phone. She then lied about it to my face. ( Found out through our phone company usage logs. She has met this man's girlfriend and they are now friends. Her lies about him make my trust issues worse.

Jill has always lied and hidden things from me ( she says she is trying to protect me due to my issues), however I see it as if she can lie about things that I know are actually lies, that she will lie about anything.

I could go on all night but I think it best to stop and respond to any comments. I am trying to change and have been seeing professional help which doesn't seem to be working at all. I love Jill completely, I have never and never will cheat on her (note I was kissed by a girl on my bucks night,) and if we were to split I don't think I would ever be with another person.

My problems in general
Depression, self doubt, self esteem, insecurity, shy, trust issues, anxiety, nice guy attitude, I am an open book(I don't lie or have any secrets from my wife)

If you read all that thanks for reading I welcome the bashing and help that may follow.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is cheating on you on an emotional level at a minimum. Jealous and controlling are often the words used by women while they are cheating to throw their partners off trail. She is also repeatedly lying to you.

You may need to snoop on her. What phone does she have? Do you have access to it? You might also need to keylog her computer.It is likely that the guy's gf is unaware of your wife's relationship with her bf. 

Unless you can rule out infidelity, do no trust her. You marriage is in trouble and you need to act fast. Maybe ask the moderators to move this into Coping with Infidelity section


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## jdiuwl33 (May 1, 2012)

Sorry went for a shower and realised I hadn't really ask a question. I am trying really hard to change I am at rock bottom and every time a make some improvements and feel a little better. Jill does something to knock me back down. It feels like I make 2 steps forward and get sent back 2 steps. 

What can I do to try and make some headway?


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## jdiuwl33 (May 1, 2012)

Warlock I am 99.9% certain infidelity is not a factor( no one can ever be 100% sure). So I would like to keep it here. Admittedly some things have happened to make me doubt her, I trust her enough not do do anything. However with the troubles in our marriage I think it would be very easy for her to have an EA build on her without her realising it and then it would be too late. I would like to think I am not jealous and believe I am not. I am downright fearful of losing her. ( Are they the same? I don't think so.)

Also brushing off my concerns all the time just make it worse for myself. I am very open and communicative while Jill is very closed and quite often won't return conversation when I am trying to talk to her. It feels like I'm always nagging but I am just trying to get her to communicate with me .She has been like this forever, ( buries all emotion and moves on with out talking.) I likened her to a Zombie the other day for her complete lack of response.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

As an initial matter, JD, I want to welcome you to the TAM forum. And I want to note that your posts reveal an amazing degree of self awareness.


jdiuwl33 said:


> My issues control me in a disgusting way.


JD, no, that would mean you are a poor, helpless victim who has no control over his own life. That is untrue. Your issues do not "control" you. Rather, you are describing a strong fear of abandonment and rejection, which causes you to experiences intense doubts and feelings that are much stronger than what most folks have to deal with. Significantly, you CAN control how you choose to act on those feelings. This means you are not a helpless victim but, rather, a man who can choose to heal himself and learn how to do self-soothing to deal with the irrational feelings of abandonment.


> I treat the person I love the most in the worst possible way cause I think subconsciously I am trying to make her hate me / leave me so that she can be better off.


No, you are not verbally abusing her "so she can be better off." Rather, you are doing so in an attempt to push her away -- i.e., to abandon her -- before she has a chance to abandon and reject you. This is what men do when they have a strong fear of abandonment and rejection. 

The irony is that, the better she treats you and the more loving she becomes, the greater your fear becomes that you will lose her. Indeed, that fear can become so great that, to get relief from the constant gnawing pain and fear, your subconscious mind will "protect" you by sabotaging your marriage. That is, you will preemptively abandon her before she has a chance to do it to you. 

Because that all happens at the subconscious level, the logical adult part of your mind is tricked into thinking she did some terrible thing that warrants your walking away from her. Believe me, JD, you are doing HER no favor by pushing her away. You are only trying to reduce your fear and pain -- and, as your psychologist must be telling you, there are better ways of reducing your fear.


> I feel she doesn't treat me like she treats everyone else. She forgets me, ignores me and just plain doesn't listen to me.


No doubt, you are correct about her doing those neglectful things. All spouses do so occasionally. Yet, given your fear of rejection and low self esteem, the pain of being ignored and forgotten will be magnified ten-fold. The result is that your perception of her is so BLACK that you say you are _"close to walking away"_ -- and claim that your marriage _"is imploding."_

In the same breath, however, you give a purely WHITE description of her as _"the most loving caring person I have ever met, she will do anything for anyone and will always put others first ...she has a beautiful soul."_ Importantly, this black-white thinking -- wherein she seems to be "all bad" or "all good" -- is what we all tend to do when our feelings are very intense. I therefore suggest that you work on avoiding such all-or-nothing thinking by working with your psych to learn how to calm yourself and how to intellectually challenge those intense feelings -- instead of accepting them as reflecting reality. 

I also suggest that you take a look at the behavioral traits of Avoidant Personality Disorder to see if most of them sound very familiar. I'm NOT suggesting you have the full blown AvPD. Instead, I'm only suggesting that you may have most of those traits at a stronger level than is true for most folks.


> Jill has always lied and hidden things from me ( she says she is trying to protect me due to my issues).


Given your serious trust issues, she probably is telling you the truth in saying she was "trying to protect" you. What typically happens, when a wife is having to deal with a distrusting husband, is to tell half-truths and occasional outright lies to avoid triggering your anger over some event that was perfectly harmless. Of course, lying is the absolute worst thing she can do around a man who has trust issues. But it happens.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

At best she lies and manipulates. At worst (and very likely) she's probably cheating on you. And she's manipulated you into thinking this is your fault? This is just ridiculous.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Uptown has probably nailed your psychological profile. However, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. You need to monitor your wife.

What is your present height and weight? Do women give you the eye?


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## jdiuwl33 (May 1, 2012)

Uptown said:


> No, you are not verbally abusing her "so she can be better off." Rather, you are doing so in an attempt to push her away -- i.e., to abandon her -- before she has a chance to abandon and reject you. This is what men do when they have a strong fear of abandonment and rejection.
> 
> The irony is that, the better she treats you and the more loving she becomes, the greater your fear becomes that you will lose her. Indeed, that fear can become so great that, to get relief from the constant gnawing pain and fear, your subconscious mind will "protect" you by sabotaging your marriage. That is, you will preemptively abandon her before she has a chance to do it to you.
> 
> Because that all happens at the subconscious level, the logical adult part of your mind is tricked into thinking she did some terrible thing that warrants your walking away from her. Believe me, JD, you are doing HER no favor by pushing her away. You are only trying to reduce your fear and pain -- and, as your psychologist must be telling you, there are better ways of reducing your fear.No doubt, you are correct about her doing those neglectful things. All spouses do so occasionally. Yet, given your fear of rejection and low self esteem, the pain of being ignored and forgotten will be magnified ten-fold. The result is that your perception of her is so BLACK that you say you are _"close to walking away"_ -- and claim that your marriage _"is imploding."_



Thanks for the post uptown It is very accurate about me. I have said that before to Jill, that on a level I am trying to protect myself. And I know pushing her away is not the answer I just can't seem to stop myself. I will look into this Avoidant Personality Disorder.

We both have this week of work and were taking the kids to her parents house. Things are so bad I decided to stay home and try and do some self healing, ( First day was to put a post on TAM) Last night we spoke on the phone a little. Jill had mentioned our troubles to her mother and was told that she needs to start talking to me. After a few minutes of silence ( I was giving her time to think and process which she says she needs) she said I am going to go now, I said that I want to talk more. She responded with "about what". 

Sigh I want to talk about us, our troubles, how we can fix it, I just want her to communicate. I said that to her in an attacking manner followed by don't bother about it and I hung up. I then spent 5 hours trying to get to sleep cause I was so angry.


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## jdiuwl33 (May 1, 2012)

183 cm and 80kg (176 pound). I could do with some more muscle and have a receding hairline, (another self esteem issue) which is cut very short so it looks better. Jill says that she catches girls looking at me but I don't really notice, I only have eyes for Jill so I literally ignore other females. 


Sex has been another issue over the years, I was very HD and wanted sex alot, Jill was LD and was quite happy for 1-2 a week ( like normal people). Take out the Pms week and it was 6 a month. I used to initiate sex alot and due to her LD I was constantly knocked back and we practically only had sex when she wanted it. I told her that the flip side of the constant rejection is that I will stop asking for it, which I have done and now she doesn't feel loved any more. She gave me thrush a few weeks back and after 3 weeks of no sex due to rubbing cream on the area 3 times a day I now have no interest in sex, Yes I am still attracted to her and my reaction when she touches me or by just looking at her is testament to that, I simply am not interested in the sex act. I use to touch, hug and grab her all the time she decided she didn't like that and I stopped, Now she is upset that I stopped and touches me more.

I use to send her naughty and sometimes very erotic messages that she loved, sadly she reacted poorly when one landed while she was visiting a girlfriend. Its now been over a year since I have sent her one of my special messages. 

I use to text her while she was working, Its now been close to a month since I have sent a non important message. I on the other hand LOVE getting messages from the love of my life, in my depressed state a single message brightens my day and I get happy. Jill can't take the time to do this little thing for me (apparently she has time to chat to this other man, go on Facebook and such but has no time to text me).

And in response to a previous comment from Warlock, yes I have access to her phone, it doesn't have a password and she always forgets it, (another sore spot for me) Nothing worse than trying to call /text your partner about both Important and non important stuff only to have the phone ring behind you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Glad to hear you got your growth spurt and it sounds like you probably have a 32 inch waist. Start changing things around and see if she notices. More muscle, different clothes, start keeping a more erratic and slightly mysterious schedule to the extent you can manage it without neglecting the kids. Later on, you can restart the touching and texting, but for now start hitting the weights. 

It only takes about an hour a week, three 20 minute sessions. Pick five of deadlift, squat/leg press, overhead press, weighted chins, weighted dips, decline or incline chest press (not both in same workout), pullover machine or pulldown, barbell row. These moves will make a big difference in a short period of time. 

Regarding electronic commo in her potential EA, it's not necessary. Neither my wife nor my XGF had a cell phone, computer, etc back in the stone age. You might want to VAR her car and see if she's chatting on her commute.

I assume you've read Married Man Sex Life, which is actually about how to maintain attraction over a long term relationship (AKA "LTR game").


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