# Sexless - Years - Wish it Were Different



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

So I have been on here before and I am just wanting to figure out what to do because mainly I am confused - it's a conflict between my expectations and my wife saying if I want sex to go ahead and have it - she gives me permission. So we are both healthy and everything is great in life with family things we create - yet when it comes to sex - after sharing how I feel and communicating this - the answer is getting is that - just because we are married - I am not entitled to sex. I was sharing with a friend my feelings and she read a text she found in which I was discussing sex and that I miss the physical connection in which my friend said perhaps my wife does not know that I want to have sex as part of my relationship. her response which she sent in an email was " I give you permission to have sex with whoever you want to - it's what you want and you cant expect just because we are married that I will have sex with you as I have to be inspired to do so. She said she does not have an issue with me having sex unless I wanted to move in with someone else then we would have to talk about that and decide what to do. My wife does not seem to be interested in anyone at all sexually and most of the time she spends working and sleeping. But I feel sexual and I guess I am attached to having that experience we used to have ... Its so confusing as we just bought a house - she says she is happy with moving and so excited its just like the sexual switch is turned off. I have asked her to go to counseling and she says why - She has no issues at all - she is happy the way she is. 

When your a parent, have a family and then my wife says - I am not stopping you - what confusion. In my head I think - she cant want me to have sex with other people - its been like 3 years since we did anything - sex, oral and anything sexual, we go for walks, get coffee, take drives, watch movies and spend time together all of the time, its the most baffling thing. Honestly, who wants to make someone want to be sexual - but then after 3 years - I miss sex and being physically connected - I want pleasure and sex to be part of my life. Is there any other husbands or wives out there who have been in a similar situation. Is there some solution here that does not involve trying to change her? Do I handle my own needs on the side - never thought I would be stuck in this place. She is 52 and I am 50, I cant force her to go to the doctor and honestly I want her to feel inspired to do something - No one wants to be sexual with someone who is not into having sex at all ... We are both super healthy, vegan and active - I just cannot get my head around it - After this long its hard not think about sex and be horny - what do I do ?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maybe she is post-menopausal and she has lost all interest in sex. My wife said that to me when we were in our mid-fifties. She was done and she said I could have sex with other women if I really wanted a sexual relationship. I stayed to support her (she has some mental issues and empty-nest syndrome, albeit fully functioning), but I can't see myself spending the rest of my life with no affection whatsoever, so I'll be off when this stupid virus does one... it's sad, but I have no other option. It's soul-crushing.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> She was done and she said I could have sex with other women if I really wanted a sexual relationship.


You would have done well to oblige her wishes.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunchild15 said:


> After this long its hard not think about sex and be horny - what do I do ?


Start having sex with other people, as you should have been doing years ago.

Oh and by the way, I hope you have lots of fun doing exactly that.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunchild15 said:


> Is there some solution here that does not involve trying to change her?


Yes there is and she has already told you what that solution is, so get yourself out there and start having sex with other people.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> You would have done well to oblige her wishes.


Not sure she was serious... I think it was act of desperation. As you probably know, sex has been a bone of contention in the second part of our marriage. At the time, I didn't want another woman. If I could turn the clock back, I would gladly accept the offer...


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> If I could turn the clock back, I would gladly accept the offer...


Which ought to be a valuable lesson, for @sunchild15 and others facing similar predicaments.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Which ought to be a valuable lesson, for @sunchild15 and others facing similar predicaments.


Absolutely... the problem is, like in most relationships, both spouses have their share of fault/blame, so, unless you feel you've been greatly mistreated, you end up thinking you kind of deserve it. Well, at least that was my reasoning. I know, rather twisted. The problem is: there is nothing you can do to fix the issue, so just get out.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Absolutely... the problem is, like in most relationships, both spouses have their share of fault/blame, so, unless you feel you've been greatly mistreated, you end up thinking you kind of deserve it.


Speak for yourself!

There is no way I wouldn't start sharing sex with others very quickly, if my wife stopped having plenty of sex with me. And I certainly wouldn't feel like I deserved a lacklustre sex life.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Speak for yourself!
> 
> There is no way I wouldn't start sharing sex with others very quickly, if my wife stopped having plenty of sex with me. And I certainly wouldn't feel like I deserved a lacklustre sex life.


I not really saying I "deserved" it, only that I can understand and that it's in the back of your mind. Despite all our faults, denying a sex life to your partner is cruel and unacceptable. This why I will be out soon, despite the vast army of "non believers" here on TAM. I understand them, though, because I have changed my mind several times...


----------



## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

sunchild15 said:


> I have to be inspired to do so


This is the KEY thing that jumped out at me. The rest sounds more like, "yeah, if you want it that bad then go get it." Not like she is actually giving you permission to cheat on your marriage/family. 

You might want to actually... ask... her what types of things might inspire her. Just a thought.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

sunchild15 said:


> So I have been on here before and I am just wanting to figure out what to do because mainly I am confused - it's a conflict between my expectations and my wife saying if I want sex to go ahead and have it - she gives me permission. So we are both healthy and everything is great in life with family things we create - yet when it comes to sex - after sharing how I feel and communicating this - the answer is getting is that - just because we are married - I am not entitled to sex. I was sharing with a friend my feelings and she read a text she found in which I was discussing sex and that I miss the physical connection in which my friend said perhaps my wife does not know that I want to have sex as part of my relationship. her response which she sent in an email was " I give you permission to have sex with whoever you want to - it's what you want and you cant expect just because we are married that I will have sex with you as I have to be inspired to do so. She said she does not have an issue with me having sex unless I wanted to move in with someone else then we would have to talk about that and decide what to do. My wife does not seem to be interested in anyone at all sexually and most of the time she spends working and sleeping. But I feel sexual and I guess I am attached to having that experience we used to have ... Its so confusing as we just bought a house - she says she is happy with moving and so excited its just like the sexual switch is turned off. I have asked her to go to counseling and she says why - She has no issues at all - she is happy the way she is.
> 
> When your a parent, have a family and then my wife says - I am not stopping you - what confusion. In my head I think - she cant want me to have sex with other people - its been like 3 years since we did anything - sex, oral and anything sexual, we go for walks, get coffee, take drives, watch movies and spend time together all of the time, its the most baffling thing. Honestly, who wants to make someone want to be sexual - but then after 3 years - I miss sex and being physically connected - I want pleasure and sex to be part of my life. Is there any other husbands or wives out there who have been in a similar situation. Is there some solution here that does not involve trying to change her? Do I handle my own needs on the side - never thought I would be stuck in this place. She is 52 and I am 50, I cant force her to go to the doctor and honestly I want her to feel inspired to do something - No one wants to be sexual with someone who is not into having sex at all ... We are both super healthy, vegan and active - I just cannot get my head around it - After this long its hard not think about sex and be horny - what do I do ?


At this point, you need to decide what it is that you need. If you need the intimacy of a partner along with the physicality, then it's a decision between leaving to find someone who can provide that need or staying without sex. If you are the kind that can get your emotional and physical needs from separate people, your wife has given you the solution.

With that said, on the later option, I would sit down with her and talk it through. Tell her that this is a big decision for you at least, and you want something more substantial that simply an email. If she still agrees, ask her what she wants out of such an arrangement. Does she want to know who? Does she want advanced warning of a time with the other person to avoid scheduling conflicts? Does she want no knowledge at all? Does she only want a STI screening in case she decides to be sexual again? Is she against an emotional relationship?

The key to ethical non monogamy is communication. And that level of communication can vary depending upon the individuals involved. While I am open, if I know a potential partner has a SO, I want that SO to tell me to my face that my potential partner is doing this with their knowledge. If the SO doesn't even want that level, I don't start with the potential partner. Neither view is wrong. They are both right for the people involved.

If you have any further questions, myself and a couple of others on here are well versed in ethical non monogamy. Feel free to ask.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

Personal said:


> Speak for yourself!
> 
> There is no way I wouldn't start sharing sex with others very quickly, if my wife stopped having plenty of sex with me. And I certainly wouldn't feel like I deserved a lacklustre sex life.


Its been 3-4 years since anything even a sexual massage or foreplay. That is the confusing part too. Yes, I know some people say this, and I have just let her be for some time. I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too. At times I am like this is a game? Years back she said perhaps I can not fulfill all of your needs - if it was up to you and we had sex 2-3 times per week - you would be happy with that - she says .. Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I got a bad chest infection 3 years ago. My wife moved out of the bedroom because of my cough and... never returned. When I challenged her, she gave me several reasons for not wanting sex, not just with me, with anybody: menopause, empty nest syndrome and being fat. Also, what I did in our marriage. The fact that I got angry with her because of the lack of sex, I isolated myself, was difficult to live with for some years. Also blamed it on my alcohol consumption (she used to drink with me!) and my smoking. I haven't been doing any of the above for years, but she says it's too late. She has some mental issues, so I guess that's always been the reason (plus her antidepressants, libido killers), but she doesn't want to admit it. Maybe there are reasons you not aware of? Sometimes, lying is a lot easier.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

So Married said:


> This is the KEY thing that jumped out at me. The rest sounds more like, "yeah, if you want it that bad then go get it." Not like she is actually giving you permission to cheat on your marriage/family.
> 
> You might want to actually... ask... her what types of things might inspire her. Just a thought.


Absolutely, that hit me as well, I mean what????? Inspired???? Its sad that she doesn't realise that you can have and even even enjoy sex because you love your spouse and want to please them and remain emotionally close. Even if you dont 'feel' like it and even if you arent 'inspired.'
I think that a woman telling their husband to go and find sex elsewhere is appalling and I hope you dont do that despite some here telling you to. You will be using other women and you would both be committing adultery which often has bad consequences.

I think your wife is being really cruel. She refuses to think of you, is being totally selfish, and expects you to go and have sex with other women but doesnt want you having a proper relationship with any of them or move in with them. The trouble is that we emotionally bond with people we have sex with, and you may well fall in love, or the woman may fall in love with you, so what then?
As I see it she wants all of the priviledges of being married but isnt prepared to work on something that is so important, yet she isnt honest or decent enough to end the marriage so you can meet a woman who would love you enough. 

My advise would be not to sleep with anyone else while you are still married, but deeply think about whether you can live with things the way you are for good, or you may need to end the marriage sadly. 
In your place I would say, I cant live with this situation and I am not going to committ adultery, so the only alternative is that I end the marriage. See what she says. If she still refuses to get any help or make an effort then I cant see what alternative there is.


----------



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@sunchild15

You really need to have an indepth talk with your wife about sexual intimacy. You need to understand what she means by being inspired. You need to know why she thinks she can not meet your needs and exactly what needs she can't meet. You need to be very clear to yourself and her what physical/sexual intimacy means to you. For example, if I was in your shoes I would tell my wife that I am going to be emotionally invested in the woman that I am being sexual with (which would obviously lead to the end of one marriage and possible the beginning of another). You might be different, but you need to be clear with your wife about who you are.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

+1 on what @Diana7 wrote above. I think it’s a cruel thing to suggest and at least for me I don’t want a pure roommate/friend to live with. Outsourcing sex like outsourcing your landscaping would never work for me but if it works for you and your wife then more power to you!


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

sunchild15 said:


> Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??


No, she's not going to do it because she's not interested in you sexually. She has the life she wants, and that life does not include sex with you. I'm speaking as a woman.


----------



## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> My advise would be not to sleep with anyone else while you are still married, but deeply think about whether you can live with things the way you are for good, or you may need to end the marriage sadly.


Yes, and it is sad.

OP, I would first try to ask her what might inspire her. That seems to me like she was trying to make a point. Get her to come out and tell you what she means, what she needs. Many of us women try to "nuance" things instead of being direct, but I've learned that many men don't really "take a hint." Tell her to spell it out for you.

It could be that there is some wedge between you two that needs to be addressed. It could be that the sex was boring or unsatisfying previously. It could be that she needs emotional foreplay before getting busy. Really, it could be anything. ASK her.

Wouldn't it really suck if there is a simple fix to this issue but you end up divorcing just because neither of you were willing to have the hard talks? Anyway, good luck to you.


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

sunchild15 said:


> I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too.


I'm sure that she is not thinking about it at all unless you bring it up, so if you are waiting for her to have an epiphany and come around on her own, it ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Step one is to move into your own bedroom.

Related information: There are a lot of women who believe in their heart of hearts that all men want is sex, and that sex has nothing to do with love. That separation of love and sex is why your mixed up wife can say to you go have sex with someone else. To her it has nothing to do with your love for her. So show her the difference. Like I started.
1) Move into your own bedroom. This allows both of you some space from each other.
2) Withdraw emotionally. No talking about feelings. She is showing you that it isn't important to her. make it happen.
3) Start to make emotional connections with other people. Tell her that sex is a demonstration of love. If you are going to have sex with someone else you have to get close to them.

If she can get through all of that without changing her perception of sex and love, you will be ready to face the moving out discussion. But most women don't get past level one unless they want divorce.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sunchild15 said:


> Its been 3-4 years since anything even a sexual massage or foreplay. That is the confusing part too. Yes, I know some people say this, and I have just let her be for some time. I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too. At times I am like this is a game? Years back she said perhaps I can not fulfill all of your needs - if it was up to you and we had sex 2-3 times per week - you would be happy with that - she says .. Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??


What she knows is that you aren’t going to do anything about it. Just like all the people on online forums that continue to stay married in the same situation and say “insert dumb excuse” is the reason they can’t do anything about it.


----------



## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I would call her out. Have the discussion posted earlier, does she want to know? want you to keep it a secret?...etc. If she gives you the green light again, I think you should really decided if you want to be married or not. Just dont think that if you are planning on staying in the marriage looking elsewhere for sex not a good idea.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sunchild how old are you and your wife? How long have you been married, and has sexual intimacy always been an issue with her? 

And... ARE YOU SURE SHE IS NOT CHEATING OR EVER HAS CHEATED ON YOU??? There, I asked it since no one else would.


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

So Married said:


> Yes, and it is sad.
> 
> OP, I would first try to ask her what might inspire her. That seems to me like she was trying to make a point. Get her to come out and tell you what she means, what she needs. Many of us women try to "nuance" things instead of being direct, but I've learned that many men don't really "take a hint." Tell her to spell it out for you.
> 
> ...


Well, when I ask for counseling she does not have a problem so she does not need to go... . Perhaps she can be depressed and does not want to admit it, she works out . In the years past she says she has sex and then had kids and feel shes has kind of been through the cycles. When I asked before what I could do to help us feel more connected. She said if I was just happy and we each worried about ourselves it would just take care of itself. When I scheduled dates and we discussed making time for intimacy she says you cant plan it like that. You do not just schedule intimacy, there seems to be many redirections. Years back she used to give me a massage and when I offered to give her a massage she said she already feels good and does not need to be touched in anyway - why cant I be happy with what I get .. Its mind boggling because aside from sex - you would think we are an amazing synergized couple, creating businesses - doing fun things its just not around anything sexual ..


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Are you willing to leave if she doesn’t try to develop a sexual relationship with you?


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You are friends.

She likes this life, living with her friend.

She is not interested in sex with you.

Either outsource, get a divorce, or keep your sexuality hidden forever in this friendship life you are in.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sunchild15 said:


> Its mind boggling because aside from sex - you would think we are an amazing synergized couple, creating businesses - doing fun things its just not around anything sexual ..


Would she be surprised if you asked for a divorce?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunchild15 said:


> Its been 3-4 years since anything even a sexual massage or foreplay. That is the confusing part too. Yes, I know some people say this, and I have just let her be for some time. I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too. At times I am like this is a game? Years back she said perhaps I can not fulfill all of your needs - if it was up to you and we had sex 2-3 times per week - you would be happy with that - she says .. Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??


You know it really doesn't matter what she is thinking, what does matter is what she does.

One thing is pretty clear though, she doesn't want to have sex with you, and doesn't care who you have sex with.

So unless your wife is intellectually deficient, she would be right in presuming you are already getting sex elsewhere.

Given that, the fact you have now been celibate for a number of years is all on you.

So...


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> So unless your wife is intellectually deficient, she would be right in presuming you are already getting sex elsewhere.


This is where you are wrong, imo. I don't think you know how the mind of a sex-starving wife works. She DOES NOT expect you to find it somewhere else. She expects you to comply, she is sure you will comply because that's what you've been doing until now. She knows she can push you. And why not? It's cakeism. Get your sex somewhere else is said in gist. She knows you won't do it. Now, if you are going to threaten divorce, be serious about it and mean it, but remember that there is a good chance she will say yes and she will deprive of your home, your kids and most of your earnings.


----------



## DesireHerOnly1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely, that hit me as well, I mean what????? Inspired???? Its sad that she doesn't realise that you can have and even even enjoy sex because you love your spouse and want to please them and remain emotionally close. Even if you dont 'feel' like it and even if you arent 'inspired.'
> I think that a woman telling their husband to go and find sex elsewhere is appalling and I hope you dont do that despite some here telling you to. You will be using other women and you would both be committing adultery which often has bad consequences.
> 
> I think your wife is being really cruel. She refuses to think of you, is being totally selfish, and expects you to go and have sex with other women but doesnt want you having a proper relationship with any of them or move in with them. The trouble is that we emotionally bond with people we have sex with, and you may well fall in love, or the woman may fall in love with you, so what then?
> ...


I agree with this response. I think it is a cruel act and in some way she lost interest (maybe a combination of many things). However all that said, marriage should be mutual and work towards being being close emotionally and physically. 3 years is a very long time.

having sex should never be a task/obligation/or something one must do.

it should be mutual (not forced or one wanting it while other not interested). If it becomes that way, both partners must look inward, outward and what they need to consider towards each other to get the attraction back.

read up on what makes the opposite sex find you attractive and consider if you have done things to offend her or turn her off. And even if this is the case, give it a good go to woe her back.

however if she doesn’t care or want to consider your needs, she is only thinking of her self and that is the death of things (but give it a go, read up and maybe talk to a counsellor your self first alone.

be faithful, give it a shot, and if she responds you will know. If she is not interested that you may have to love yourself more than she loves you. And find a partner that respects you, that you give respect towards and live in a healthy relationship where you feel it is fulfilling.

I would think many people of the opposite sex feel equally disrespected.

so if it has to finish, finish well, finish with the highest amount of respect.

You don’t need a sex life that others may enjoy, you just need one that you enjoy (not one you don’t).


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> This is where you are wrong, imo. I don't think you know how the mind of a sex-starving wife works. She DOES NOT expect you to find it somewhere else. She expects you to comply, she is sure you will comply because that's what you've been doing until now. She knows she can push you. And why not? It's cakeism. Get your sex somewhere else is said in gist. She knows you won't do it. Now, if you are going to threaten divorce, be serious about it and mean it, but remember that there is a good chance she will say yes and she will deprive of your home, your kids and most of your earnings.


Wow! Where is your backbone?

If my wife told me to get sex elsewhere while withholding sex from me, I can assure you I would afford her the dignity of respecting her desires as stated. and I would have absolutely no hesitation in seeking sex elsewhere, with it being none of her business going forward.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> As I see it she wants all of the priviledges of being married but isnt prepared to work on something that is so important, yet she isnt honest or decent enough to end the marriage so you can meet a woman who would love you enough.


That's how I see it, too. 

In my mind, there is a simple fact. Married people have sex. No sex = no marriage.

The clear instruction of the bible is that married people "do not own their body", but rather, their spouse does. That's just about as clear as any teaching I could want on the subject.

No sex means abandonment, in many locales and jurisdictions, the laws allow divorce for this reason.



So Married said:


> Wouldn't it really suck if there is a simple fix to this issue but you end up divorcing just because neither of you were willing to have the hard talks?


Yes, but begin the "hard talk" with what the bible says, and what the law says (assuming that you know) .... and that if no change happens in a defined period, like one month, you are going to pursue a divorce on these grounds.



Livvie said:


> You are friends.
> She likes this life, living with her friend.
> She is not interested in sex with you.


This is 100% correct. You have been "friend-zoned". BTDT. I still am, because I can't take the financial losses I would have in a divorce.
Make sure you understand completely, on the advice of an attorney, where you will "be" after the divorce.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Wow! Where is your backbone?


I'm not talking about myself, because it's unacceptable and I won't stay. I have made mistakes, but if paying for them means no sex, then I don't see the point of being married. I was describing the mindset of a partner who is withholding, because I'm familiar with it and I've been there.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> This is where you are wrong, imo. I don't think you know how the mind of a sex-starving wife works. She DOES NOT expect you to find it somewhere else. She expects you to comply, she is sure you will comply because that's what you've been doing until now. She knows she can push you. And why not? It's cakeism. Get your sex somewhere else is said in gist. She knows you won't do it. Now, if you are going to threaten divorce, be serious about it and mean it, but remember that there is a good chance she will say yes and she will deprive of your home, your kids and most of your earnings.


She may not expect him to be successful but as the looking for and interactions with other females while looking will take up a lot of time and effort. And he'll only get better at it.

If she sees that amount of effort and time on his part it may shake her up. He won't always be around for her at the house or in errands. That will indeed get her attention. 

What happens when that's all going on will be an adventure. 

That's why going fishing isn't called going catching because one doesn't always catch, everytime. 

But persistence usually pays off.

And it takes time, effort, and money.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I was describing the mindset of a partner who is withholding, because I'm familiar with it and I've been there.


Their mindset is irrelevant.

Withholding sex in the first place is sufficient good reason to warrant feeling free to seek sex elsewhere.

At the end of the day if someone in a monogamous sexual relationship expects sexual fidelity, they better put out. Otherwise they forfeit any moral obligation from their sexual partner to afford them any sexual fidelity going forward.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Their mindset is irrelevant.
> 
> Withholding sex in the first place is sufficient good reason to warrant feeling free to seek sex elsewhere.
> 
> At the end of the day if someone in a monogamous sexual relationship expects sexual fidelity, they better put out. Otherwise they forfeit any moral obligation from their sexual partner to afford them any sexual fidelity going forward.


Surely better to end the marriage first so that he is free to met someone who loves him. Far better than staying in a marriage were the wife doesnt really care and having lots of empty meaningless sex with multiple women.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> At the end of the day if someone in a monogamous sexual relationship expects sexual fidelity, they better put out. Otherwise they forfeit any moral obligation from their sexual partner to afford them any sexual fidelity going forward.


So, you would be unfaithful before you divorce your wife for not putting out?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She may not expect him to be successful but as the looking for and interactions with other females while looking will take up a lot of time and effort. And he'll only get better at it.
> 
> If she sees that amount of effort and time on his part it may shake her up. He won't always be around for her at the house or in errands. That will indeed get her attention.
> 
> ...


If you wife tells you to get go get it somewhere else, she might be bluffing, but it indicates a certain willingness to endure whatever her husband brings to the table in terms of withholding affection and acts of service. She doesn't want to have sex with her husband, which to me, means she doesn't give a **** about him. He can do whatever he likes, she won't change her decision. That said, I would mention the D word.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> If you wife tells you to get go get it somewhere else, she might be bluffing, but it indicates a certain willingness to endure whatever her husband brings to the table in terms of withholding affection and acts of service. She doesn't want to have sex with her husband, which to me, means she doesn't give a **** about him. He can do whatever he likes, she won't change her decision. That said, I would mention the D word.


Yep, me too, etc.

What I'm adding is that when she sees how much time his searching and he adds relationships to his life, she may see her non sexual life in jeopardy as well. As she should.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yep, me too, etc.
> 
> What I'm adding is that when she sees how much time his searching and he adds relationships to his life,* she may see her non sexual life in jeopardy as well. As she should.*


My wife didn't...


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Surely better to end the marriage first so that he is free to met someone who loves him. Far better than staying in a marriage were the wife doesnt really care and having lots of empty meaningless sex with multiple women.


I think divorce is a splendid option, given that situation.

Likewise I also think given that situation, there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone having lots of consensual sex up through them being divorced or otherwise going forward.

As on the idea that sharing sex with different women is meaningless, I say speak for yourself. Since some of us don't feel that sharing sex is as meaningless as you do. As for myself from experience I have found that sharing sex with different women, has always been meaningful for the mutual pleasure it can bring.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> So, you would be unfaithful before you divorce your wife for not putting out?


Of course!

Life is too short to waste it dithering and being afraid to enjoy oneself.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Of course!
> 
> Life is too short to waste it dithering and being afraid to enjoy oneself.


But "unfaithful" with consent?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> But "unfaithful" with consent?


If one has consent it isn't being unfaithful.

I have absolutely no problem with marital sexual infidelity being undertaken. In the face of being married to a spouse, who is choosing to withhold sex for a notable length of time or interminably.

So I would certainly feel no obligation to afford my spouse any sexual fidelity if she were withholding sex from me for any notable length of time.

Simply put, if my wife chooses to stop having sex with me, I will readily cheat on her as much as I have the time to do so.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> If one has consent it isn't being unfaithful.
> 
> I have absolutely no problem with marital sexual infidelity being undertaken. In the face of being married to a spouse, who is choosing to withhold sex for a notable length of time or interminably.
> 
> ...


What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


That is a completely different thing.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Several points in no particular order -

- if she hasn’t had sex with you in 3 years, then she’s not bluffing and she really doesn’t care what you do with your Johnson. 

- however,,,, She knows you won’t actually do it. 98% of men with a hallpass wouldn’t even know what to do with it or even how to get with someone else. 

- the other 2% are already banging other chicks and haven’t been celibate for 3 years. 

- in other words, if you are the kind of guy that can go 3 years without having sex, you are not the kind of guy that can just pick someone up because you now have a hall pass. It’s just not in you and she knows that. 

- hallpasses/open marriages are a farce for most men and women know it. Unless a guy is amazingly good looking or very wealthy or unusually charming with with some kind of jetsetting lifestyle, no woman is going to just sign up to be his side piece while he goes home to the little wifey after he cums. She knows that few if any women will actually do that so she is safe in offering a hallpass. 

- it’s actually easier to cheat. It’s easier to go behind someone’s back than it is to get someone with a hall pass.

- if you live in an at-fault state, if you do hook up with someone, your wife could claim infidelity in court and you’d never be able to claim she gave you permission unless you have it notarized in writing in some kind of post nuptial agreement.

- escorts and sugar babies may be an option. But again, if you are the kind of guy that goes 3 years without, you are not the kind of guy that hires escorts or makes arrangements with 19 year old starving college girls.

- and your wife *WILL* have an issue with you spending money on sex and she will become quickly vengeful if you are spending marital funds on outside sex.

- if you are reasonably fit and pleasant looking, well dressed and groomed, gainfully employed, have working social skills etc you will have MANY more options as a single, divorced man. 

- depending on how fit and good looking you are, it is not unreasonable that you could meet and date and hook up with women in their 30s that have healthy and robust sex drives and will have sex drives for years to come. 

- if you are good looking, well dressed and charming/flirtatious, you can even hook up with crazy chicks with daddy issues in their 20s if you’d be into that. Just make sure you use a condom and then flush it immediately so they don’t dig it out of the trash and impregnate themselves. 

- and finally, 3 years is irredeemable. You can’t fix that. If she is that frigid towards you and you are that passive and accommodating, you cannot fix this. You would both have to enter some kind of cacoon and undergo some kind of metamorphosis and each become completely different people to have an active and satisfying sex life with each other. You simply have nothing to work with here.

- IMHO your best bet is to worki on yourself, get buff and good looking and well dressed, get out and start working on your passions and hobbies and get a social life. And then file for divorce and work out a fair a cooperative divorce settlement and then get out and be alive and live life again as a single man. 

You will have a lot more opportunities as a single man than you do in a dead marriage.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


Is she paralyzed from the neck down with her mouth wired shut?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


I don't think he means that... oops, just seen... yep, it doesn't mean that!


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


Red herring alert!

Of course, everyone knows that can't is much different from can't be bothered.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

As we go forward, let’s all keep in mind it has been *THEEE YEARS.*

He says they eat right and are healthy so we can probably rule out that one of them has been in a long term coma. 

And if neither has been at a research facility in Antarctica for the last 21/2 years, this means that she has lost virtually all attraction and respect for his as a man and it also means that he has been the epitome of supplicating beta provider. 

If he was the kind of guy that could/would go out and have sex with another woman, he already would have by now. 

There is no hope for an active and satisfying sex life here.

Even all this red pill alpha crap that I and some others tend to throw around here won’t amount to a hill of beans if she is post menopausal and not on hormonal therapy. 

He has 3 general options - 

- suck it up and live with it and get used to having a lot of cats around (ask me how I know that one LOL)

- get it elsewhere with or without her blessing and keep her around so he doesn’t have to move or divide assets. ( I doubt if he will or even can do this because I don’t think he is the type)

- divide assets and child arrangements fairly (I assume the kids are at least teens so that doesn’t even matter much) and wish each other well, then he can pursue whatever kind of life he wants and she can get however many cats she wants. 

They CAN work out a good friendship and coparenting relationship. 

But work out a healthy and satisfying sex life???? Just no. That ship has sailed 😞 

She has already stated her position and I believe her sincerity. So As a healthy man, HE has to decide what is best for him - 

-A companionate relationship and roommate and get used to spanking to porn.

- remain in the marriage for the financial and material benefits but turn his sexual energies elsewhere ( which I don’t think he has in him)

- work out a fair and acceptable settlement, wish her well and move on.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


Not the same as withholding, and if they are withholding the information about inability, it's pretty much the same thing. Desire also goes a long way. Wanting sex but incapable of it is way different from withholding.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> What if she cant have sex. Accident or illness long term?


Anyone that is of sound mind can have sexual expression.

There may be a few conditions that may prevent PIV, but if someone is mentally oriented to person,place, time and situation, they are capable of sexual activity if they choose to do so.

Further more the OP has clearly stated that they are healthy and have healthy lifestyles.

The information being provided pertaining to the wife’s statements show that she has clearly stated her intents and boundaries, that she is clearly aware of the situation and has made her preferences known. 

Arguments regarding illness/injury are not germane to this discussion.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> I think divorce is a splendid option, given that situation.
> 
> Likewise I also think given that situation, there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone having lots of consensual sex up through them being divorced or otherwise going forward.
> 
> As on the idea that sharing sex with different women is meaningless, I say speak for yourself. Since some of us don't feel that sharing sex is as meaningless as you do. As for myself from experience I have found that sharing sex with different women, has always been meaningful for the mutual pleasure it can bring.


I cant seethe


oldshirt said:


> Is she paralyzed from the neck down with her mouth wired shut?


I was asking you personally.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> That is a completely different thing.


e, then


Personal said:


> If one has consent it isn't being unfaithful.
> 
> I have absolutely no problem with marital sexual infidelity being undertaken. In the face of being married to a spouse, who is choosing to withhold sex for a notable length of time or interminably.
> 
> ...


So why stay married if you are going to cheat?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> My wife didn't...


That’s because you didn’t actually do anything.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> e, then
> 
> So why stay married if you are going to cheat?


Because there may not be any reason to divorce if everyone is consenting. 

If a spouse is ok with their partner getting some elsewhere as long as they keep paying their share of the bills and doing their share of the household chores,,

and if the 3rd party is ok being on the side and doesn’t want that person exclusively to themselves, then it all works for them and there is no reason to incur the expense and hassle of a divorce.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Because there may not be any reason to divorce if everyone is consenting.
> 
> If a spouse is ok with their partner getting some elsewhere as long as they keep paying their share of the bills and doing their share of the household chores,,
> 
> and if the 3rd party is ok being on the side and doesn’t want that person exclusively to themselves, then it all works for them and there is no reason to incur the expense and hassle of a divorce.


Seems like a very odd marriage to me.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Seems like a very odd marriage to me.


Not ideal for me either but neither you nor I get to determine what other consenting adult’s marriages are like. 

That may not work for you, but it works for some others.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You can also suggest to her that you both need marriage counseling to figure out how to either move forward together or separately.
You shouldn't have to be a roommate.

EDT: just saw that she refused counseling -- so, YOU now have to decide how important this is to you. Sounds like you are not getting ANYTHING on the emotional side of things. She sounds rather cold -- so why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who treats you like that?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sunchild15 said:


> Its been 3-4 years since anything even a sexual massage or foreplay. That is the confusing part too. Yes, I know some people say this, and I have just let her be for some time. I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too. At times I am like this is a game? Years back she said perhaps I can not fulfill all of your needs - if it was up to you and we had sex 2-3 times per week - you would be happy with that - she says .. Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??


Well she knows what you want but that's not what she wants. She has given you a hard no and proven it over the last 3 years, so I think at this point if you want to seek sex elsewhere you should. It may not be as easy as it sounds because most women aren't going to want to be with some man who is married or believe them when they say they haven't had sex for three years. 

But you might get your feet wet and then see how you feel after you see what your options are out there. She just sounds postmenopausal. Likely she wasn't very sexual to begin with.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> So why stay married if you are going to cheat?


Why stay married if you are going to withhold sex?


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

Personal said:


> Why stay married if you are going to withhold sex?


What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages. 

This is what was written to me by my wife: 

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
*In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that. 

It seems lately if I do not expect anything or bring this up- everyone is happy - what do you do when you want to solve this instead of creating conflict in life. I do not think anyone wants to rock the boat or make someone do something they are not INSPIRED by. You can be in a "marriage" yet there is two people. Maybe sex is just sex and I am expecting too much from my partner in this. I never have tried to make her do anything. Its crazy when I have to come up with resources to support our family - I do not wait for inspiration before I do something for my family. I am not wanting her to just have sex - perhaps I want her to examine why this has disappeared from our relationship and has no importance when it used to be flowing. She should want to figure this out - should she not ?


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

sunchild15 said:


> counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex


YOu need to tell her that you care about EMOTIONAL CLOSENESS that sex provides. Your counselor should have been able to help bring up that point. If they went along with HER statement, they are a lousy counselor.


sunchild15 said:


> *In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.


So YOU THINK your marriage is great, you are friends, you all get along and are great together.
SHE IS TELLING YOU she doesn't care about you (if you want to separate, we can do it now). NOBODY who has a great marriage would say this to their spouse. She doesn't want to work on this but just issues an ultimatum? NOBODY who has a great marriage would do that -- they would want to discuss and try to resolve the issues (sex or otherwise).

Your marriage in YOUR EYES isn't reality. You need to really start looking without the rose colored glasses. What are YOU getting out of the relationship? What does she do FOR YOU?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sunchild15 said:


> This is what was written to me by my wife:
> 
> EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
> *In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.


Well, she is missing the point that while no one is "entitled" to sex, it can be deserved by you being a diligent spouse. Also, no one is entitled to any act of service, sexual or otherwise. You don't have to do more than share bills and chores; but I bet you go beyond substantially.

But, right or wrong, she clearly doesn't love you as a romantic partner. As you noted, she doesn't care to fix this; it's your problem. She's sticking around for pragmatic reasons. Her knowing you aren't happy upsets and repels her; what she IS getting outweighs that unpleasantness (for now).

Once the needs she does have aren't met (or don't outweigh the negatives) she could walk away anyways. So, you need to do two things. First, get an attorney, know your rights and protect your property, income, and access to any minor children as best as possible.

Then, decide whether you even want to try. If so, let her know that you won't hide your sexuality and bow down to make her happy; ending the marriage is not your preferred option but IS the second-best choice.

If not, walk away.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sunchild15 said:


> Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.


I honestly cannot fathom why you want to spin your wheels for more years. Pretending you have an otherwise splendid marriage. When it’s obvious your wife doesn’t give a **** about you and would rather you just **** off out of her life.

Seriously please do yourself a favour, and grow a backbone.


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

sunchild15 said:


> What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages.
> 
> This is what was written to me by my wife:
> 
> ...


 I want to add that she said this after she found a message to a friend in which my friend said to me that my wife should know that I expect to have a sexual connection within the relationship. Perhaps she does not get how important that is as part of it. He mentioned that the reason my romance with her is **** is that maybe she does not really get that a sexual connection is important to me. I think she knows this after many conversations. She was probably pissed that she read my message in which he described in a sarcastic tone that my relationship is **** - in which she got upset and said you should not be talking of me in this light and that me telling or talking about her is - deformation of character and I should just worry about me. Perhaps she is pissed another part perhaps she is backed into a corner and has no energy left to give except just take care of herself. Perhaps she is more in a survival mode of eating, exercise, work on her business, and sleep because she has nothing extra to give..


----------



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

sunchild15 said:


> .....
> 
> EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
> *In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. *Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.*
> ...


I don't know how you missed the bolded part. This woman does not love you the way you want to be loved. Why don't you believe what she has written? Your wife is showing you who she is and what she thinks of you. Now you need to start believing her.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sunchild15 said:


> I want to add that she said this after she found a message to a friend in which my friend said to me that my wife should know that I expect to have a sexual connection within the relationship. Perhaps she does not get how important that is as part of it. He mentioned that the reason my romance with her is *** is that maybe she does not really get that a sexual connection is important to me. I think she knows this after many conversations. She was probably pissed that she read my message in which he described in a sarcastic tone that my relationship is *** - in which she got upset and said you should not be talking of me in this light and that me telling or talking about her is - deformation of character and I should just worry about me. Perhaps she is pissed another part perhaps she is backed into a corner and has no energy left to give except just take care of herself. Perhaps she is more in a survival mode of eating, exercise, work on her business, and sleep because she has nothing extra to give..


After ALL the responses you've gotten...WHY do any of these points matter...??

SHE KNOWS -- she knows what you want, she knows what you need, she knows what she is doing...SHE DOES NOT CARE.

That should be the ONLY thing that matters - you cannot have a real marriage or relationship when one or both of the partners don't CARE about the other. It's empty, lonely, and NOT a loving relationship, no matter how superficially friendly you are to eachother.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Sunchild,

You may have a long time to live without sex at your age, unless you really like going to cat shows with your wife and helping her clean the house and watching the royals on TV.

One question you did not answer, but that is important is did she ever cheat on you, this can also include an emotional affair where she fell in love with someone on another continent, or contact with an old boyfriend.

The reason that is so important is that women frequently emotionally divorce their husbands during an affair and never again regain respect, romance or love for them. This can occur behind your back.

Also does you W masturbate? Her comment, I think it was something like "I have to be in the mood", sounds like she has desire just no desire for you, and she knows it and comes up with excuses to avoid the real reason.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sunchild15 said:


> What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages.
> 
> This is what was written to me by my wife:
> 
> ...


There is nothing the least bit confusing here. She is remarkably self-aware and has expressed her intent to you quite clearly.

She has no romantic/sexual feelings or desires for you at all and is not only ok if you have sex with other people but she has also preemptively agreed to a divorce. 

You are nothing more than friends and roommates. She is aware of that and has accepted that. You need to become aware of that as well.

As I said in an early post, you can continue to be friends and coparents but you are no longer lovers and won’t ever be.

Your choice is whether to stay and be friends or move on to find love elsewhere.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

sunchild15 said:


> This is what was written to me by my wife:
> 
> EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
> *In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.


I agree with everyone that she does not care about you or your needs. Time to call her out on it and separate. 

I wonder if she has cheated or is cheating on you. The lack of care and respect here is pretty astounding...so much that I wouldn't be at all surprised if she had herself a side piece. 

Maybe you can ask her for her help in setting up your Tinder account.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jlg07 said:


> So YOU THINK your marriage is great, you are friends, you all get along and are great together.
> SHE IS TELLING YOU she doesn't care about you (if you want to separate, we can do it now). NOBODY who has a great marriage would say this to their spouse. She doesn't want to work on this but just issues an ultimatum? NOBODY who has a great marriage would do that -- they would want to discuss and try to resolve the issues (sex or otherwise).
> 
> Your marriage in YOUR EYES isn't reality. You need to really start looking without the rose colored glasses.


This is well said.

YOU are not seeing the reality. You may have had a good love life years ago in the very beginning. 

But that life ended years ago.

That woman that loved and had sex with you no longer exists. 

That life that you thought you had and thought you would have in the future does not exist.

I am sorry. This is sad and unfortunate but it does happen and is not rare.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> There is nothing the least bit confusing here. She is remarkably self-aware and has expressed her intent to you quite clearly.
> 
> She has no romantic/sexual feelings or desires for you at all and is not only ok if you have sex with other people but she has also preemptively agreed to a divorce.
> 
> ...


Which her text to you was silly.

Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.

The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

My guess is that she has zero sexual desire and fully expects you to not do one damn thing about going out and finding someone else to have sex with so she feels pretty safe in telling you to do so. If you've been married a while, she knows you, knows what you're capable of and more importantly, what you're NOT capable of and therefore has no fear that you will make good on her promise to you.

If it were me, I would find some things to do outside of the house for a few nights...come home late, but in a very good mood. That will ferret out her true feelings on the matter. She may find that the idea of you actually out with somebody feels very different to her once it's something she thinks you will really do.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Which her text to you was silly.
> 
> Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.
> 
> The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.


I don’t think she is being silly at all. I think she has laid it out there as cold hard fact and this is an attempt to get it through to him.

That’s face it, the OP has been asleep at the wheel. What man goes 3-4 YEARS with no sex within a marriage that he describes as great???

She checked out and disengaged probably more than 4 years ago and he still hasn’t caught on. 

Yes she was cold and blunt, but I have the feeling she had to be because he wasn’t (and possibly still isn’t) getting it. 

And technically she is correct, people are NOT entitled to sex from someone else if they don’t want to. 

It has just taken him over 3 years of celibacy to start to get the hint.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t think she is being silly at all. I think she has laid it out there as cold hard fact and this is an attempt to get it through to him.
> 
> That’s face it, the OP has been asleep at the wheel. What man goes 3-4 YEARS with no sex within a marriage that he describes as great???
> 
> ...


We all know OP has waited 3, 4 years to resolve or divorce. And in a M, a wife can indeed say no all she wants, a H is free to then leave her, and should. Quickly.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Which her text to you was silly.
> 
> Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.
> 
> The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.


Exactly...my relationship with my exH was perfect to all those looking at it from the outside. We were very good friends who happened to be married. We did not have sex. I slowly died inside...because my expectation of marriage was that my husband would want to have a sex life with me. I do NOT think that makes me entitled in any way, shape, or form...and men are not entitled either when they have the same expectation of marriage.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

notmyjamie said:


> My guess is that she has zero sexual desire and fully expects you to not do one damn thing about going out and finding someone else to have sex with so she feels pretty safe in telling you to do so. If you've been married a while, she knows you, knows what you're capable of and more importantly, what you're NOT capable of and therefore has no fear that you will make good on her promise to you.
> 
> If it were me, I would find some things to do outside of the house for a few nights...come home late, but in a very good mood. That will ferret out her true feelings on the matter. She may find that the idea of you actually out with somebody feels very different to her once it's something she thinks you will really do.


Agree with the first paragraph. She doesn't really expect you to go get sex somewhere else. That sounds like a "damn, just stop bugging" thing to me.

Yeah she gave you permission, but I bet that if you find someone, start spending time and money with her, your wife will pull the plug on it herself.

That's why you need to see an attorney now. Anything could tip the scales toward her leaving.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> We all know OP has waited 3, 4 years to resolve or divorce. And in a M, a wife can indeed say no all she wants, a H is free to then leave her, and should. Quickly.


I agree.

People are not entitled to sex.

But neither is anyone entitled to marriage or entitled to have a partner if they are not meeting the partner’s needs.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I agree.
> 
> People are not entitled to sex.
> 
> But neither is anyone entitled to marriage or entitled to have a partner if they are not meeting the partner’s needs.


I agree with you. But the OP's wife might not. Some people truly believe that sex is optional and will take offense to being left because of a lack of it.

That is why the OP needs to get his ducks in a row before doing anything.


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> Sunchild,
> 
> You may have a long time to live without sex at your age, unless you really like going to cat shows with your wife and helping her clean the house and watching the royals on TV.
> 
> ...


She never cheated. She does not masturbate either.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sunchild15 said:


> She never cheated. She does not masturbate either.


Have you been in the same room with her every minute 24/7 for the past 5 years and had surveillance cameras on her during the times you were asleep?


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> My guess is that she has zero sexual desire and fully expects you to not do one damn thing about going out and finding someone else to have sex with so she feels pretty safe in telling you to do so. If you've been married a while, she knows you, knows what you're capable of and more importantly, what you're NOT capable of and therefore has no fear that you will make good on her promise to you.
> 
> If it were me, I would find some things to do outside of the house for a few nights...come home late, but in a very good mood. That will ferret out her true feelings on the matter. She may find that the idea of you actually out with somebody feels very different to her once it's something she thinks you will really do.


I have. I go to classes once per week and came home at 12 midnight and several other nights pre-covid I went out dancing as well and came home late. Some nights I went dancing after she went to sleep and then came home at 2 am, most of those times she had no idea. She does not have anyone on the side. She is always communicating to me and sharing what has happened in her day with her business and etc .


----------



## sunchild15 (Jul 4, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Have you been in the same room with her 24/7 for the past 5 years?


Yes. most of the time. Trust me I was even investigating what she has been doing because previously I assumed something similar but most of the time, I do know where she is. She likes her own space and is kind of an all to herself type person - most of her friends she talks to - she never talks about anything personal in anyway - just her business and general family stuff


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Have you been in the same room with her every minute 24/7 for the past 5 years and had surveillance cameras on her during the times you were asleep?


It does not matter either way. The bottom line is she has cut him off. Whether she is cheating or too wrapped up in her business and family is irrelevant.

He should walk away in either instance. I honestly don't get why people recommend to go sleuthing, blow up the affair, etc. If my partner is banging some other dude, he can have her.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

sunchild15 said:


> I have. I go to classes once per week and came home at 12 midnight and several other nights pre-covid I went out dancing as well and came home late. Some nights I went dancing after she went to sleep and then came home at 2 am, most of those times she had no idea. She does not have anyone on the side. She is always communicating to me and sharing what has happened in her day with her business and etc .


If she didn’t know you were gone, she had nothing to be bothered by. Text her and say you won’t be home for dinner. Then come in before she will have gone to bed. Be in a great mood. If she asks how you’re night was act awkward and say “good” with a weird smile like you’re remembering the night. Then get in the shower. 

If that doesn’t work either go find someone for real or go see a lawyer.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

notmyjamie said:


> If she didn’t know you were gone, she had nothing to be bothered by. Text her and say you won’t be home for dinner. Then come in before she will have gone to bed. Be in a great mood. If she asks how you’re night was act awkward and say “good” with a weird smile like you’re remembering the night. Then get in the shower.
> 
> If that doesn’t work either go find someone for real or go see a lawyer.


That’s just playing games and being manipulative.

That might work for a 16 year trying to make her boyfriend give her more attention.

She hasn’t been intimate with him in 3-4 years and sent him a very matter of fact message to see other women and preemptively agreed to a divorce. 

There’s no gaming this situation here. It is what it is.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

sunchild15 said:


> This is what was written to me by my wife:
> EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
> *In conclusion:* You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.





sunchild15 said:


> I want to add that she said this after she found a message to a friend in which my friend said to me that my wife should know that I expect to have a sexual connection within the relationship. Perhaps she does not get how important that is as part of it. He mentioned that the reason my romance with her is *** is that maybe she does not really get that a sexual connection is important to me. I think she knows this after many conversations. She was probably pissed that she read my message in which he described in a sarcastic tone that my relationship is *** - in which she got upset and said you should not be talking of me in this light and that me telling or talking about her is - deformation of character and I should just worry about me. Perhaps she is pissed another part perhaps she is backed into a corner and has no energy left to give except just take care of herself. Perhaps she is more in a survival mode of eating, exercise, work on her business, and sleep because she has nothing extra to give..


Perhaps, maybe, think, probably, should not, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...

Okay, if she was annoyed that you discussed this with a friend, her email to you could be retaliation out of hurt and fear. She also could be suggesting that she needs to be inspired. However, another response could have been to recognize the hurt this is causing you, and stepped to what you could do together, and what she may need to become inspired again. However, she is grown-folk and therefore, I would personally take her response on face-value.

All I can offer is based on my personality. And that is, if my spouse wasn't willing to step up with me to make the marriage work with what is a reasonable part of an intimate relationship, and furthermore, expressed being fine with me having sex with others, and on top of that, was ok with officially separating, well, my bags would have been packed that night. Because the obvious communication is they are not willing to work on the marriage with me. I also would not want a friendship arrangement with someone I loved and desired, but need to have sex with others instead (based on the spouse being physically healthy and able).

I have not read the whole thread, my bad, and I do wonder if depression could be a part of this from losing her parents, however, not being willing to see a counselor, or to recognize this as an important aspect of connection which needs the attention of both of you, the response of 'go have sex with others, and see ya later if you want to move out'.... I can tell ya, I would be gone in a heartbeat. I value having each others' back and a spouse who wants me to share in this life with them, and acts accordingly alongside me. Rather than, what I would interpret from the email as, 'I don't give a flying funk about you.'


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She is correct that being married doesn't entitle you to sex. She's also being fair when she says that you can have sex with other people and she would be OK with it. You can even separate if you find another soulmate. She is fine with that. She is giving you options. What's not fair is when she says that you only care about sex and you would be leaving her because of sex. It just shifts the blame on you, for a situation SHE created.


----------



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

sunchild15 said:


> I have. I go to classes once per week and came home at 12 midnight and several other nights pre-covid I went out dancing as well and came home late. Some nights I went dancing after she went to sleep and then came home at 2 am, most of those times she had no idea. She does not have anyone on the side. She is always communicating to me and sharing what has happened in her day with her business and etc .


If my partner cared this little about me and my life, I would....... well I would never allow myself to get in that situation. 

How would you answer this question. How does she make my life better?


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Dude: for your own piece of mind "give it up". You know it, we all can see it: you will not do a thing, and will just keep doing what you have been doing, which is "NOTHING" other than lamenting, wishing, and trying to understand. YOU are afraid, you are lacking the courage to do what you at least instinctually know what the solution (s) is/are: GET RID of her and find a new partner, or follow her advice: go out and have sex. But of course, we know you won't do a thing.


----------

