# Holidays over...time to get serious about my intentions



## one_strange_otter

Married 14 years this January. Now that I'm "grown up" at 35 I've realized I never really got married for the right reasons. Basically married the first girl that would sleep with me. Felt obligated to stay and be nice for the kids sake. Have 3 of them by the way all ten and under. Been to counseling twice over the years because, even though she doesn't want to admit it, we aren't really compatible. I'm not the type to wantonly drag her through the mud to make myself feel better about it but after 14 years with her I can definitely say she is never going to change who she is. And I guess that's part of my issue. Why would you ask someone to change who they are fundamentally just to salvage something you no longer want? I feel bad because we don't talk about it and I even lie when she says she loves me and I tell her it back. The few times a month we actually have sex I have to think about something else or make up a fantasy in my head because I'm not attracted to her and it's difficult to keep it up long enough to finish. She seems pleasantly oblivious about the whole thing. So, I've started looking at apartments and I'm setting up a meeting with a divorce lawyer. I'm sure people out there will think I'm a **** for not wanting to work it out. I just know there is someone out there better suited for what I want in a person now that I know for sure what I don't want. Because of our work and school situation with the kids I'm going to ask for the older two to stay with me. I've worked out a custody schedule in my head that seems fair. I guess I don't have a specific question for the forum just wanted to put what's in my head into a post to see what people I've never met think about the situation.


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## PBear

I know how you feel, dude. I was there last November.told her in December that I wanted a separation, stayed over the holidays for the sake of the kids, then there was a birthday for one of the kids and some minor surgery for the STBXW. Moved out finally in February.

I also married the first girl I slept with. We never did any counseling till the end, but your description of needing fundamentally change is very close to what I felt. I wanted/needed a partner in my marriage, not just one more person to take care of. I had to make all the major decisions in our marriage without any input from her, as I'd just get a "whatever you think is best" whenever I asked. 

Anyway, just thought I'd let you know you're not alone. Good luck in your journey! If it helps, I met someone else shortly after I moved out (not recommended, btw!), and we're pretty deeply in love. She's everything I could ask for in a partner, including a sex drive at least as high as my own. . 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter

Thanks PBear. I would like to point out for the jury, lol, that neither of us have ever cheated (as far as I know) and I'm certainly not doing this because I have someone already lined up. My plan is to get everything straightened out first with moving out then telling her so I don't have to stay in the house while she goes through the "I don't understand" and "I know I can change" phase. I just don't want to see her begging....assuming she even would. For all I know she may go "Thank god, I didn't want to be the one to bring it up first. So when can you leave?" LOL


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## EleGirl

If you feel the way you say, do her the favor of letting her go free so she can find someone who cares for her. Also realize that your children will suffer because of this. Divorce generally throws children into a spin that takes years for them to overcome.

Does your wife work outside of the home?


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## one_strange_otter

EleGirl said:


> If you feel the way you say, do her the favor of letting her go free so she can find someone who cares for her. Also realize that your children will suffer because of this. Divorce generally throws children into a spin that takes years for them to overcome.
> 
> Does your wife work outside of the home?


Part time work tues-thurs from 9-2.

And I know about the effects on kids. Mine got divorced when I was 3. I can honestly say I'd rather be from a broken home than a broken family. My mom re-married a nice guy that took care of us so I grew up normal.


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## EleGirl

Do you really think that your wife is going to agree to the two older children living with you and the custody schedule you have worked out in your head?


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## one_strange_otter

EleGirl said:


> Do you really think that your wife is going to agree to the two older children living with you and the custody schedule you have worked out in your head?


Only one way to find out. 

But honestly, over the years when we have argued she has been the one to throw divorce at me during the argument. She even promised to be a good divorcee and not hide the kids or anything like that. If you knew her the way I do you'd agree she is probably going to jump at the chance to not have to watch the kids. She pushes them on me every chance she gets.


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## accept

I cant see anywhere in your post what you consider wrong with your wife. All you say is not compatible.


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## one_strange_otter

accept said:


> I cant see anywhere in your post what you consider wrong with your wife. All you say is not compatible.


I don't want to be one of the guys that tries to rationalize what they are doing by pointing out all of their spouses negatives. All I can tell you is I'm not attracted to her, I don't love her anymore (although I do care about her well being) and we don't have anything in common other than our kids. Do I take some of the blame for not trying harder? Yes. I'm one of the nice guys that puts everyone else's feelings in front of my own and it's created a monster so to speak that I no longer want to fight with. I'm not asking anyone to agree with my decision or even support it. Those of you out there that have been "walked out on" (even though I'm not approaching it that way) are bound to be offensive about this. But rather this forum is supposed to be an open discussion about how we feel concerning these focused topics and I'm just putting my thoughts to paper so to speak.


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## accept

I am one who is totally against divorce if a marriage can be saved. You write the grass is greener elsewhere. I just dont believe that is a reason for divorce.


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## PBear

Well, I did have an exit affair, so you're doing better than me. I'm not proud of that, and I really wish it hadn't happened, but I can't change it now. And regardless of what was wrong in our marriage, that decision was entirely mine, thinking that if I could fill that intimacy hole that was there, I could hang on till the kids were out of the house. Not a good plan at all.

In any case, I think getting out BEFORE things get to the point of fighting and resentments building is a good idea. Our kids seem to be adjusting ok, and I think the fact that we're still able to be nice to each other has a lot to do with that.

Not sure about the idea of splitting up the kids though... That just seems wrong. Not for your wife's sake, but for the kids sake. I think the primary focus when splitting up like this should be on what's best for the kids. And yes, many people might argue that what's best for the kids is two parents in the home, but whatever... I think two healthy but separate parents can be more important than two miserable tense parents in the same house. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter

accept said:


> I am one who is totally against divorce if a marriage can be saved. You write the grass is greener elsewhere. I just dont believe that is a reason for divorce.


What does it mean to save a marriage? That you go to counseling and agree to be someone you aren't? Then that works for a few weeks or months and you end up going back to who you naturally are anyways and start the cycle all over again? We've been to counseling, I've tried tirelessly all the things they wanted me to do, following the instructions blindly hoping for something in return but all I got was childish reactions to the changes we were supposed to be making.

It is tough though to explain getting divorced when neither of us are drug addicts, abusive or otherwise at fault for anything other than making a rash decision 14 years ago because "it was the right thing to do". We are both good parents. But I'm not in the business of raising kids. I don't want to be miserable anymore. Ask the people who lived with parents having an empty, hollow relationship "for their sake" and see how they feel about it. All the ones I know say they wish they would have just split and at least tried to be happy separately rather than miserable together.


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## one_strange_otter

PBear said:


> Not sure about the idea of splitting up the kids though... That just seems wrong. Not for your wife's sake, but for the kids sake. I think the primary focus when splitting up like this should be on what's best for the kids. And yes, many people might argue that what's best for the kids is two parents in the home, but whatever... I think two healthy but separate parents can be more important than two miserable tense parents in the same house.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To clarify the custody issue, I work, and the older two kids go to school an hour away from our home. I got this job almost four years ago so we enrolled the kids in what we thought would be our destination city at some point in the near future but it never sold. So every morning myself and the older two get up and drive an hour to work/school, then make the hour trip back home in the evening. The youngest just started pre-k this year but goes in our home town and my wife takes care of getting him to school and then shuttling him to day care for the second half of the day. Since they are already settled in with their classes and friends over the last four years at the new school it made sense to me that they would stay during the week and go home on weekends. Kind of like this:
mon-fri older two with me, younger with his mother.
weekend 1 - switch kids out, older two go with mom, baby with me
weekend 2 - all kids stay with me
weekend 3 - all kids stay with her
Then go back to weekend 1

I'd be setting up communications for them via webchat on laptops for the evenings and I'd never restrict them from calling their mom. The kids stay exhausted from all the late nights getting home, rushing through homework, then heading straight to bed and never really have time to relax, let alone participate in afterschool activities because of the commute. And, in case anyone is wondering, it's not a commute that gets better with traffic. It's the same long 55 miles every time. It's not a city commute that would be short one day and long the next. We also eat out almost every meal because of this schedule. With a home here in my work town I'd be able to cook everynight and go home for lunch if I wanted.


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## NotSoSureYet

My sister and I were children of divorced parents (I was 7 and she was 14). I hope you can find another way for the kids schedules to work out. I don't think it is a good idea for them to be apart - especially in the beginning of the divorce. Maybe you can work something out where you get all 3 during the week and drop the youngest off to her in the a.m. so your stbx can take him to pre K??

Then just swap them every other weekend...... Or you get all kids on M&T. She gets them W&Th. You just have to pick the older ones up on your off days to get them to school. Then still flip flop weekends......just another idea.


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## that_girl

have you told your wife all this (apartment, etc) or do you just plan to drop the bomb on her and move out one day.

My husband did that. And it sucked. I felt so betrayed that he couldn't have talked about it with me or at least TOLD me his intentions before jsut up and leaving.

He moved home and we're doing really well but we had to really dig into when he left because I was severely traumatized by it. The fact that he planned everything out without even telling me really hurt.


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## one_strange_otter

that_girl said:


> have you told your wife all this (apartment, etc) or do you just plan to drop the bomb on her and move out one day.
> 
> My husband did that. And it sucked. I felt so betrayed that he couldn't have talked about it with me or at least TOLD me his intentions before jsut up and leaving.
> 
> He moved home and we're doing really well but we had to really dig into when he left because I was severely traumatized by it. The fact that he planned everything out without even telling me really hurt.


You have a good point about just dropping the axe. I just know from my personal experiences at home with my wife that it won't be a total shock. She knows something is wrong but refuses to recognize it. There is no more love between us except what I'm faking at the moment to buy time until my affairs are in order. During our last argument I told her I was going to have to think about whether or not I wanted to work it out again. I never gave her an answer. I guess she will get it soon enough.


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## that_girl

Yea. I knew soemthing was wrong too, but ignored it. At least she knows you are thinking of what you want to do.

I just kinda relived my moment of hell just then. Sorry


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## that_girl

but maybe, if you told her you are apartment hunting, that will make her stop and address the issues. 

I swear, i would have. But I didn't have the chance. I don't regret him leaving as it probably saved our marriage, but I was severely hurt by him just doing it without warning me at all.


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## one_strange_otter

that_girl said:


> Yea. I knew soemthing was wrong too, but ignored it. At least she knows you are thinking of what you want to do.
> 
> I just kinda relived my moment of hell just then. Sorry


Completely understandable. These forums are real good about dredging up old memories. 

In one of our last conversations about why I'm not happy she basically told me, no make that literally told me, that she wasn't going to change and if I wanted someone to cook dinner and clean I should find somebody else. :scratchhead:


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## one_strange_otter

that_girl said:


> but maybe, if you told her you are apartment hunting, that will make her stop and address the issues.
> 
> I swear, i would have. But I didn't have the chance. I don't regret him leaving as it probably saved our marriage, but I was severely hurt by him just doing it without warning me at all.


She is prone to uncontrolled bursts of anger when provoked. If I mention apartments I better have one already picked out cuz I'm probably going to be leaving immediately.


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## stuckmick

one_strange_otter said:


> Completely understandable. These forums are real good about dredging up old memories.
> 
> In one of our last conversations about why I'm not happy she basically told me, no make that literally told me, that she wasn't going to change and if I wanted someone to cook dinner and clean I should find somebody else. :scratchhead:


Have you talked to her about IC? Maybe get to some of the issues she has?


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## that_girl

one_strange_otter said:


> She is prone to uncontrolled bursts of anger when provoked. If I mention apartments I better have one already picked out cuz I'm probably going to be leaving immediately.


This is EXACTLY what my husband thought would happen. But when the shet hit the fan, I didn't explode. I just sat down and cried and it shocked the hell out of him.

He had already signed a 12 month lease...and I tihnk for a moment, he knew he did the wrong thing by not talking to me first...because obviously my reaction was not what he expected.

All I'm saying, is don't assume anything. She may say mean things and have outbursts of anger...but when it comes down to you actually leaving, you may be in for a surprise with her reaction.


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## that_girl

stuckmick said:


> Have you talked to her about IC? Maybe get to some of the issues she has?


I always put off IC. But when Hubs left, I went...and it changed my life. :smthumbup:


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## one_strange_otter

She talks about going to counseling because "something just isn't right between us". But like I said before, she's only interested in "What can I do different?" instead of "How can I change who I am?". Answer is, you can't change who you are. And that's the crux of the issue. When you've been around someone for almost fifteen years you learn a few things and she can't change herself. And yes, we've tried.


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## that_girl

one_strange_otter said:


> She talks about going to counseling because "something just isn't right between us". But like I said before, she's only interested in "What can I do different?" instead of "How can I change who I am?". Answer is, you can't change who you are. And that's the crux of the issue. When you've been around someone for almost fifteen years you learn a few things and she can't change herself. And yes, we've tried.


You can't change yourself?

I call bullshet...

She has underlying issues that she needs to address by herself in therapy. Bouts of anger and saying those things is not healthy and probably has NOTHING to do with you. Was she abandoned as a child? Emotionally or physically? That can cause the "I dont' care if you leave" attitude, etc...as a defense mechanism. You guys don't need therapy together. SHE needs therapy for herself. But, you can't force her to go, or make changes, you're right.

I was just trying to help. but it seems that you just want out. Which is fine. You need to do what you need to do.


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## one_strange_otter

She had some childhood trauma but was counseled on that years ago. It's not something that ever comes up in conversation for over ten years now. 

So, I may have upset some people with the issue of counseling. Again, we have tried counseling. She has gone individually. She sees me asking her to cook for her family and try to keep the house clean as making her my servant. She literally uses that word "servant". I tell her that's not what I want, I just want someone who participates. 95% of the time I'm putting the baby to bed. If it's even mentioned to her she groans at it... Last night we were talking about going to my dad's for new years eve. She said she would stay home with the baby because last time I ignored her and was arrogant the whole time about not helping with the kids. In reality I was spending time with my brother and dad playing pool and visiting with other family, which I only see about twice a year. It would be nice for my loving spouse to offer to change a diaper or two or maybe put her own son to bed for once and let me visit with my family some and relax. I do it for her when we visit her family but she never sees that. It's always about what I'm going to do for her, not what she's going to do for me.

Another example, there was a time where she was going to the movies with her friend 2 or 3 times a week. That went on for a month. Sometimes they would just go to dinner or something. Regardless, I never complained about having all 3 kids at home. I would just say that's fine, enjoy yourself, and off she went. The first time I mentioned going to a movie by myself, in our own town which would take literally less than five minutes to get there and back plus the time for the actual movie, you would have thought I'd asked an addict to give up crack. "You're just gonna leave me here in the middle of the week with all three kids!?" "What about baths and bed and homework?". I let her go on for about 10 minutes then held up my hand until she stopped. Then I reminded her about the dozen or so trips in the past 3 weeks she had taken, leaving me with all three kids to feed, bathe, and put to bed, all on weekdays. Then it was like "oh, I didn't think about that. I guess you can go then.". Like put out that she had to be fair about it. Anyways, sorry to ramble.....


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## one_strange_otter

Ok, to update, nothing has happened between me and the wife. No discussions. She's been cooking and cleaning for the past two nights so I'm not sure what's gotten into her ( I know it ain't me....lol).

But regardless of that I still scheduled myself an appointment with a seasoned marriage counselor for next monday afternoon. It's just to go in and tell my side of the story so to speak and to get some professional advice. No offense to all the posters here but everyone has their own slant on things and I need more than that to help me with my decision.


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## Freak On a Leash

Wow. Your wife sounds a lot like I was when I had younger kids and was in my 30s...and you sound a lot like my husband. Talk about dredging up bad memories. 

I'm not proud of the way I was. I grew up in a dysfunctional family myself, was emotionally abused and had serious mental issues throughout my life but it all came to a head in my 30s and I reacted much the way as your wife. 

Then one day I realized that it wasn't the rest of the world that was responsible for my misery but myself. Eventually I was hospitalized, medicated and went into therapy and eventually I DID crawl out of the black hole I was in. I wish I could say my husband was there for me but he wasn't. He was there for the kids though. He was always a good husband and provider at that time. Maybe if he'd supported me things would've been different. Instead I was angry and bitter at him for his indifference and callous attitude and he felt the same about me. He never forgave me for my actions and used that as a basis for the things HE did ten years later. 

It's a self perpetuating, awful cycle and I still pay the price for it now. I was selfish, callous and put everything on my husband and my priorities were totally screwed up. I am not proud of the way I was and place a lot of blame myself for my current situation today. I once told my husband after HE went into rehab and expressed regret for the awful things he'd done, "It's the living with the memories and guilt that is the hardest part". 

Your wife is heading for a big fall. It's not the divorce that will will be most painful but her ultimate knowledge of why it happened..assuming she gets past blaming and hating you for it. THAT is the hard part. It's easy to blame others. It's very difficult to look in the mirror and say "THAT is the real problem" and seek to change things from within yourself. 

Fortunately when my husband has issues and imploded I had changed and was able to deal with things and be there for my kids. If I were the same person I was 10 years ago my kids would be in foster care or my husband and them would be dealing with a much angrier, bitter person. Anger and bitterness doesn't solve anything in the end. It just makes things worse. 

It sounds like your wife has some serious issues and isn't a happy person. Perhaps your leaving will push her to the realization that she needs to change not only the way she does things but who she is. You are right about that part. She needs to do that. What you are not right about is that she CAN'T change. She can, but she needs to WANT to do it and she needs to find the path and tools to take TO do it. 

If you want out, I can understand that. You are still young and deserve to live a good life. You sound like you care greatly about your kids and will be there for them. You aren't abandoning your children, as many do when they divorce their spouse. You plan to be be there for them. I applaud you on that. 

Your choice is whether you want to save your marriage and help your wife. If you don't then at least tell her why beforehand. You can have your ducks lined up (as in having a place to live) but at least give her the respect she deserves as the mother of your children to not dictate to her but discuss why and how you are doing things and why. If she chooses to blow up at you then walk out but at least you can say you tried to do the right thing and proceed with that knowledge. 

I feel for your wife. She's probably not set up to be the mother of 3 young children. I wasn't. I hated dealing with my kids during early childhood and being tied ball and chain to them. My reaction upon getting away from my infant daughter for the first time wasn't "normal" for a first time mother..I literally whooped with joy as I peeled out of the driveway in my convertible and I dreaded going back home. I looked at my children as a burden and my home as a prison cell and was angry and resentful as a result. I was like a wild animal penned up in a cage. 

From infancy to about Age 10 I HATED raising my kids. I despised the whole ordeal. It's one reason I got my tubes tied at Age 37...because the idea of having another child horrified me. Thank goodness my husband loved being the father of younger children and to his credit he stepped in and picked up the reigns of parenthood and did a great and admirable job of taking up the slack. 

I think it was his being that way that earned him the respect and love of all of us and when he turned into a rat-a$s bastard two years ago at least we had the memory of what he WAS to sustain us and stand by him. All of have faults and all of us have have breaking points..It's just a matter where or what that point is. 

What I can say for myself is that I always loved my kids and gave them tons of love and affection and always supported them. I wasn't like my own parents in that respect and in the end that's what saved me..because deep down even though I wasn't the greatest homemaker they knew that I loved them deeply. I just wasn't a good caretaker. Even now, if you want dinner on the table every night it's a problem, especially since my "dining room" table consists of 4 tray tables. I didn't even USE my oven in my new apartment until a year after we moved in! :rofl:

At Age 48 I loving having teenage children and enjoy them very much. They, more than anything else, have made the rough times we've gone through more bearable. Without them I'd be lost. It's hard to believe that a little more than 10 years ago I'd been wishing I'd never had children. Now I couldn't imagine life without them. 

My actions this past year have redeemed myself not only in my husband and children's eyes, but in my own. I can honestly say that I am now a good parent. I always felt bad about how I was 10 years ago and hated myself for it and felt incredible guilt. No doubt your wife is feeling that same self hate and guilt but doesn't know why or how to cope with it. It's a terrible place to be in. You can't erase the past but you can make the present and future a whole lot better. Maybe this can happen for your wife as well. 

One day perhaps your wife will change and realize the joy that her children can bring her. Or maybe not. I certainly she hope she does because her life will be richer, fuller and happier with them in it, even if she now considers them a burden. Perhaps being a single parent and having no choice about her will put her in a position to be the mother she should and probably wants to be. 

So if you don't want to invest in your wife and marriage that's your choice but please invest in your kids. They will need you more than ever and you can look back and say that you did the right thing. You sound like you have a level head on your shoulders and a good heart. I wish you the best.


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## one_strange_otter

Thanks for putting all that out there. I appreciate you doing that.

It makes me think though that perhaps I've turned her into a monster parent in front of you guys and she's really not. On her own she would probably be fine with the kids. But if I'm around she will literally bring the baby and a diaper to me and say "can you please change this?" or she relies on me to just take over and cook. I guess that's co-dependent? I don't know. Either way it's not like she's neglectful or doesn't want to be around them. It's like all she wants to do is play and do the fun stuff. She will do homework and projects with them, etc. So I'm not concerned at all with leaving them with her or her getting custody. She just doesn't want to do the hard stuff. The dirty diapers, the baths, cooking, cleaning, etc. Last school year she never got up to help me get them ready. This school year she is but it keeps slacking in the morning until we start getting tardy slips again and I have to say something then she will get back on track. She's not unhappy looking, she doesn't mope around or blow up for no reason. 

I don't know...lol...my family always says I make up way too many excuses for what they see her doing when we are around them. I guess that's the nice guy in me coming out.


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## one_strange_otter

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter

I told her about counseling appointment on monday. At first she was cool. Then reality sunk in and she changed her attitude and I'm on the couch and no sex until we either work something out or whatever...I'll post more tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

one_strange_otter said:


> Completely understandable. These forums are real good about dredging up old memories.
> 
> In one of our last conversations about why I'm not happy she basically told me, no make that literally told me, that she wasn't going to change and if I wanted someone to cook dinner and clean I should find somebody else. :scratchhead:


Does she work out side of the home?


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## one_strange_otter

She works part time Tues, Wed, Thurs. from 9-2. Earns herself about $1000 a month. Not enough to support herself or three kids on.

I've got a lot to type up on what happened last night. I'll get to it shortly.


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## that_girl

She's just throwing a fit. Let her. It will be ok.


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## one_strange_otter

Ok, so yesterday I got confirmation I had an appointment scheduled for Monday the 9th to meet marriage counselor. 3:45 pm my wife starts texting that she wants to go to the movies with her friend. I say that's fine, she says thanks. Then this:

Me: By the way, I scheduled a visit with a marriage counselor here monday at four. It's just going to be me for right now.
Her: That's kind of a big deal...why didn't you tell me you were thinking about it? I mean, I'm glad you want to talk to someone, I think we both do.
Me: I've been thinking ever since our last fight....just wanted to to get through the holidays before digging into it.
Her: Are you wanting to work on things or are you going so you can decide if you want to try?
Me: I'm not really sure...I think it's more of the latter but I just don't know. I just want a professionals opinion on what I'm thinking about which is about a million things right now.
Her: Are you having feelings for someone else?
Me: No...absolutely not.
Her: Ok...well please remember that we need to do things in the best interest of the kids. They are going to be the victims if we don't make good choices.
Me: You know I would. I always think about the kids.
Me: Try not to jump to conclusions.
Her: I personally think we owe it to them to work on things...but that's just me. i think to truly put their interest at heart, you have to have some empathy.
Me: If I didn't have some empathy I wouldn't be making appointments with marriage counselors.
Her: That's true.

Ok, so that was the afternoon. That night after the kids were in bed and she got back from the movies her attitude changed a little. I don't have a transcript of it but basically she called me out on all the issues with my behavior such as being distant, unresponsive and not acting attracted to her. She said that she thinks I care for her but I don't love her anymore. That I'm too scared to make the decision to leave so maybe she should make it for me (she clarified later that meant separate, not divorce). It was weird because all the stuff she was saying was true, except for the being scared to be alone part. She was making a lot of assumptions based on the idea that I would be alone and she would be there with all three kids. I never really said anything other than to wait for me to finish talking to the counselor before making any rash decisions. And to top it off Monday is our 13 yr anniversary. She said she doesn't want to say happy anniversary to me or vice versa because it isn't and that if this falls apart then she won't even count the year and only say she was married twelve years. (which is weird to bring up) She also talked about the fact that if we were separated she doesn't believe we should be dating. I didn't understand where that came from but she has this idea that as soon as I have a place of my own or something that I'm going straight to the bar to pick up chicks. Dating is the very last thing on my mind at this point. There is no one, and I mean no one, on my mind. I still don't walk around town checking other girls out or anything like that. I'm just not that type. So anyways, by the end of the conversation she asked if I would just sleep on the couch because she didn't want to be near me right then and she also said sex was out of the question until we figure out what's going to happen. Haven't talked to her today other than she wants to take the older two to the movies and wants me to take the four year old on a service call with me which is fine. I guess we will see how the weekend goes.


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## one_strange_otter

benjen879 said:


> Man, you sound exactly like my husband!!! Can I ask how you got to this point with her? I mean the only difference between my story and yours is that we have an amazing sex life.


Got to what point? The point of divorce?

And if I had an amazing sex life I would most likely have never looked for this site to begin with. lol

On another note, she is flip flopping saying one minute that she wants to work it out and doesn't want to get divorced or even separated but she seems to be just putting up a front because we had one or two conversations this weekend about it and she kept bringing up leaving with the kids and living on child support... So IDK.... She sent my mom an email after she found out I had been talking to her about us. Basically putting up that front that regardless of what happens she wouldn't use kids as leverage or run away from them, that she still sees my mom like hers, etc. Which I believe what she says for now, but she may feel different once I tell her I don't want to work it out.

She was talking about some book she was reading that talked about a controlled separation where you basically make a contract to live separately but agree to not file for divorce for x amount of days and that you go to counseling, etc. Personally I think once we get out on our own she is going to realize how much better it is than when we are together and it wouldn't lead to reconciliation.


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## one_strange_otter

Oh, another odd note....Today is our 13th Wedding anniversary. We agreed mutually not to celebrate it since I'll be going to marriage counseling today instead and giving the therapist the money I would have used to buy flowers/candy/dinner/etc. Ironic is a good word.


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## one_strange_otter

benjen, My issue is I don't think I was ever really in love. I just married the first person that would sleep with me. It was blind lust and I was too much of a nice guy to admit that to myself for a long time.


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## one_strange_otter

Ok, so the counselor appointment went well. She asked me a few pretty blunt questions about if I wanted to work it out or not to which I said no. I explained to her pretty much everything I've put into this thread or others about my wifes attitude. She didn't tell me I needed to work on it or anything, just explained how it typically affects the children and what to expect. She didn't understand why I would want to take the older two kids and not the four year old and I didn't really have a good answer other than the youngest is 100 times more attached to his mom than he is to me. Plus school is still in session and we could revisit custody in the summer. My wife is scheduled to visit next monday to give her "side" of the marriage story and what she would like to do. I asked the counselor to bring up cooking and cleaning just to get a good perspective on how my wife views those servant like duties. The counselor did say that by my description there is a lot of role reversal going on. All in all I'd say I got my money's worth. To be continued.....


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## one_strange_otter

Was talking to a friend and realized that after my wife's appointment next week we will then have a third appointment together.....and that's the one where I have to tell her I don't want to work it out. Reality sucks....

But I also know it's what I asked for so I'll be a big boy and deal with it. It's just weird after so many years of thinking it do finally do something about it.


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## one_strange_otter

Ok, wife had her counseling appointment yesterday. Long story short, counselor said we need to talk between ourselves first and decide if it's going to be marriage counseling or separation counseling and let her know. My wife says she wants to work on everything and realizes they can't be little two week changes, they have to be complete lifestyle changes. Wife asked me to rate our marriage from 1-10. I told her very low like a 3 and she just said she was more optimistic about it. She told me all the things she would need from me for it to work for her and they were all normal husband-wife things like being each others priorities, communicating, etc. She was pressing me to say if I wanted to work on it or separate. I really don't want to answer that right now so I redirected and said to try and entertain some hypotheticals like divorce. We started talking about it and when she realized I'd really done my homework on it she didn't want to talk about it anymore and changed the subject. The counselor told her she thinks that I have evolved into a traditionalist type of guy, woman cooking and cleaning sort of stuff, and that there was no way for my wife to know that at 22. There were a few other things but I ended up cutting us short because it had gotten to be midnight and we have to get up early for work so I just asked to continue talking about it the next night.

My issue right now is that I need to tell her how I really feel like I did the counselor. I was hoping to do that in the presence of a counselor instead of our house by ourselves simply because it's going to be hard on her to hear and she has no where to go be alone at at home. Apparently the counselor is forcing me to man up a little and do it myself and then figure it out from there. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


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## that_girl

So if you never loved her, why are you seeking therapy? Just curious.

Are you guys good together, despite your issues?


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## one_strange_otter

that_girl said:


> So if you never loved her, why are you seeking therapy? Just curious.
> 
> Are you guys good together, despite your issues?


Well, I think I was in love once but it was mostly because of the intimacy at the beginning. I wanted to be in a counselors office breaking the bad news to her about all this and not in my home with three kids running around. It would be the weekend at the earliest before I could get the kids to my moms for some time alone with her. And yes, we are fine otherwise. I just don't argue anymore about the things that upset me because I gave up on it a long time ago.


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## one_strange_otter

Ok, so she said her part on monday night letting me know where she stands. She wants to work on it, etc. I've described all that previously. We left it at "to be continued" because it was late and it seemed like a good breaking point since it was shifting to me. All day I worried about how to tell her. In the end it was completely natural. Last night she sat down with me in the living room and asked if I was ready to continue. I said yes and asked if she wanted to say anything else from the night before so she started talking about how if we were just dating at this point, minus the kids and 13 yrs, and I was taking this long to make a decision she would just be making it for me. So I took that as my opportunity to dive in and start explaining all the things I'd been holding back. I was very tactful, warned her there would be things to prepare for because they would hurt, and never raised my voice. I explained everything about not getting in it for the right reasons, that it was just about sex in the beginning and getting married was the "right" thing to do, etc. I told her that at the end of the day, all b.s. aside, that I still have love for her as a person and mother of my kids. But, I can't love her the way she needs me to love her for this to work out. We talked about how we couldn't know as 22 yr olds what we would turn out like and even though she had several relationships before me and she knew what she wanted that I really didn't. I told her there are too many things that we are polar opposites on and I just never felt that deep of a connection with her and anything I would be doing at this point would be forcing something to happen that just isn't going to. She calmly listened and when I was done she simply told me that of course she will be sad because it's obviously hard to deal with losing this long term relationship, she's sad that the kids are going to have to deal with it, but, she doesn't hold any anger towards me. She really does wish me the best. We decided for now to just let this sink in for a few days or even a week and then we will start discussing plans for moving forward. We both agree that regardless of our past we are going to continue to be friends. At some point in the later part of the conversation a friends name came up and she said "Please don't date her, she's no good". It was a very surreal moment for me. My wife is sitting there already thinking about our future and talking about us picking good people to be around the kids. I explained to her again that I know it's hard to understand but dating is the farthest thing from my mind. Anyways, this post is getting long so I'll just say that the cat is out of the bag so to speak and I'll keep the thread updated on our progress.


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## one_strange_otter

So far she hasn't turned on me and gotten angry and tried to kick me out or anything. She's told about 4 people including her mom. She said to me last night that none of them have any sort of animosity towards me. They're all sad for my wife of course. The story would be completely different if I was cheating or leaving for someone else though I'm sure. Her mom said to tell me she still loves me and thinks of me as her son. My wife has been acting normally and actually kind of carefree. She was telling me last night that it was actually a big relief that I was finally honest about it and it's like a lot of tension has been lifted and we can just be friends without worrying about anything else. We've been nicer to each other in the past day or two than we were in the months before my talk with her. We are going back to the counselor to get guidance on how to break it to the kids and help them deal with their issues. I'm just thankful I can afford to do all that and not have to deal with it on my own. So, just one day at a time for right now. She said right before bedtime last night that she's probably going to start the grieving part of this shortly because she's already beginning to think of all the things she wanted to do as a family that will never happen now, at least not the way she wants them to. I didn't want to bring up anything at that moment that would make it worse but I spent all of the holidays thinking to myself "this is probably our last holiday as a family". The one person I have talked to about it told me that if I feel that guilty over it that it just means I'm a good person and has a conscience that works.


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## one_strange_otter

We've been having a little in-house separation for two weeks now where my daughter and I changed beds so she's sleeping with her momma and I'm in a room by myself. (I don't mind the pink sheets so much...lol) anyways, today is our first counseling appt together to discuss managing the separation and how to best handle the kids issues that will come up. But last night she comes in to tell me around 10:30 that she "had to" let my daughter know we were getting a divorce. Apparently my 10 year old is such a super sleuth that she was able to deduce our "doctor's appointment" was really separation counseling. yeah right. Oh, and "just to let me know" she has apparently already decided she'd like to live with her mom. Last night I kind of blew it off because I don't really give much credence to what my wife says anymore anyways. But I'm starting to think about it and I should have probably been upset about that because it's like she's subconsciously (or maybe even intentionally) starting to make the point that I'm the one that is asking for this. Basically it's all my fault that I just have to get divorced. "Because you agree right that this is because of YOUR FEELINGS?" 

This is going to get worse before it gets better....

At least she did comfort her when she started asking if my side of the family is still going to be her family (will gramma still be my gramma?) That sort of stuff that I actually believe a 10 year old would ask...


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## one_strange_otter

Decided I should continue the story in the next level for those following along...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/39008-made-my-decision-continuing-story.html


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