# Marriage Counseling



## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

WH and I have been in counseling. Once together, once each separately and we go together again this week.

Im curious if other couples who attend counseling and go separately ever talk about the counseling session with each other?

When we both went it was the first visit so we just brushed on the issues. Then I went alone and that whole session was basically me laying it ALL out on the table for the counselor with a timeline and events that had transpired so that when my WH went in the next week it would be "out there". I only asked WH how it went when he came home and he said "good". But the last couple of days Ive been wondering if they talked about HIM, or ME in the session. I dont need to know details Im just curious what subject was the focus.

Is it wrong to ask? Should I just suck it up and not ask because I really am dying to know!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So you each see the same counselor separately and together??


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

When I did counseling she only saw me. It wouldn't be fair to have her then talk to your husband. You each need separate counselers and then another marriage one. Otherwise your dealing with bias. If you see her first and tell her all the bad stuff yoUr partner did and then he sees her the next day she's going to be biased towards him and not help him individually. 

As for talking about individual sessions we did to some degree. Hed tell me anythng he discovered about himself. Never discussed what he said about me though. The cooed counseling we never discussed because that counsellor was CRAP... 

Yes.. Some counselers can be crap. Don't except them to Always have advice that's in your best interest... My counsellor told me my hubby was a man who needed a challenge and I wasn't being enough of one... Her suggestion was that we have a kid and that I keep crossword puzzles around the house to keep him challenged. I was naive and was like "she's the one with the license!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

We are not in IC, we are going the MC route and yes he saw us each separately to see where things stand with each of us as I had told him that I wasnt sure it was worth working on anymore!

Im fairly confident this counselor will be good for us. We saw one several years ago and my H would constantly talk crap about him and the things he would say. I think he feels more comfortable with this one or maybe he is just ready to get his **** together?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK well that's weird. The whole idea of MC is to end the stupid secrets and crap. Seeing you separately isn't fostering that environment. 

I think you should tell your MC next time the two of you are in together that you're dying of curiosity about what they talked about in their IC.

There's no more sessions of IC, right? With this counselor?


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

This is normal procedure to find the true position of each party. Don't ask and don't tell. It will at least partially come out in your further sessions.


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## Ladywriter (Mar 13, 2013)

sorry I cant remember how to put up a new post


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> OK well that's weird. The whole idea of MC is to end the stupid secrets and crap. Seeing you separately isn't fostering that environment.
> 
> I think you should tell your MC next time the two of you are in together that you're dying of curiosity about what they talked about in their IC.
> 
> There's no more sessions of IC, right? With this counselor?


No, there are none planned. I think he wanted to see if we are on the same path without being influenced by the other being present. I really dont see anything wrong with it but...to each their own. Our last counselor saw us seperately as well a few times and together a few times.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

We never saw our MC individually. All was discussed out in the open with each other present. 

I don't think you're unreasonable to ask about what he's discussing in general terms. After all, you're trying to gauge where his head and heart are in the moment. 

Do you think he would be unwilling or are you just worried because he's previously shut down when you've asked questions?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I took my wife to a PhD shrink. And I went with her so she wouldn't lie to me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Our MC says that if we want IC we have to see someone other than her. Every MC we've had has said the same thing.

Anyway, I think you have every right to bring it up. I know you won't bring it up with your hubby, which would be the ideal thing to do.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I know you won't bring it up with your hubby, which would be the ideal thing to do.


Not quite sure what you mean by that?


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I took my wife to a PhD shrink. And I went with her so she wouldn't lie to me.


Our counselor has 3 PhD's, working on a 4th he's a bit of a nerd I think!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

That’s how our first MC (the good one) did it. Sort of joint one with some background stuff and ‘what are you here for’. Then each did a individual “airing of the grievances” so he knew where each of us was coming from without the defensive interjections of the spouse defending. Then joint sessions, homework, joint session, homework, etc...

The bad one... Parrot. No homework, nothing in the way of advice or solutions... basically paying to let someone watch us argue and step in like a referee every now and again.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

If the MC saw you each individually, it was probably as you think - so that he could see each of you and assess you individually, thereby when it comes to seeing you as a couple, if something isn't adding up in session - he may call one of you on it.

Regret and I both "debrief" our IC sessions. I think it's just another part of transparency. However, I don't think it's necessary for you to ask him about his one-time individual visit with the MC. You'll find out soon enough.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Do you think he would be unwilling or are you just worried because he's previously shut down when you've asked questions?


Im not afraid to ask him, just not sure if it would be a good idea since obviously what he spoke to the counselor about was between them at the time. He wouldnt tell me anything he didnt want to anyway...right? Just wasnt sure if I should even ask or just let his time be his time! Im not worried, just curious!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Racer said:


> Then each did a individual “airing of the grievances”


I simply must know who won the "feat of strength".


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> If the MC saw you each individually, it was probably as you think - so that he could see each of you and assess you individually, thereby when it comes to seeing you as a couple, if something isn't adding up in session - he may call one of you on it.
> 
> Regret and I both "debrief" our IC sessions. I think it's just another part of transparency. However, I don't think it's necessary for you to ask him about his one-time individual visit with the MC.  You'll find out soon enough.


Yeah thats what Im thinking. I get so excited about going to counseling..how lame am I? LOL


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I think in that spirit - it's really just about opening the line of communication. You could start with talking about generalities of what YOU talked about, then ask what he did. 

It's going to be critical that the two of you really start communicating more, often and deeper (that sounded like ANOTHER topic) than he's been comfortable doing in the past.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I think in that spirit - it's really just about opening the line of communication. You could start with talking about generalities of what YOU talked about, then ask what he did.
> 
> It's going to be critical that the two of you really start communicating more, often and deeper (that sounded like ANOTHER topic) than he's been comfortable doing in the past.


In the last month he has definitely been more open to communicating. Its been really nice. Nothing like it was before! I dont feel like Im walking on eggshells or afraid to say what Im thinking. I think that comes along with being fed up with the situation as it was and saying "no more BS".


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm so glad things are improving. Keep pushing and keep at it. Don't let him slack one little bit. He's gotta know this is a permanent change, not just a temporary bandaid.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

...for the past 3 months ..both I and the wife have been seeing the same therapist. Some sessions we're together, other times it's just me or my wife. We're completely open and honest about what was said / addressed in the session and are on the same page when we go together. Our communications have thus been 500% improved......

My wife had a ONS ...+18 yrs ago ...and the important issues and questions related to that were never addressed with the therapist we saw back at that time ...and I was directed to "just get over it"....and my wife refused to answer any questions about 'details". You might imagine the anger, angst, pain, confusion that has been penned up for that long.

...with this new therapist ...my wife has opened up a lot more ...some pertinent details have been revealed ...and the therapist has been right there to guide us, both together, and individually. There's also no "client - patient" confidentiality issues related to our individual sessions ...because what's discussed in solo sessions is immediately discussed when either of gets home or in the next joint session. I also think that part of our improved communications is directly related to this "open book" way we've talked about our solo sessions.

...it's good to see that others too have had benefits of finding a decent therapist / IC / MC ....etc.


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

We went together evertime. We also split the time between us there. She would get have and I would get have. I still remember the first time we left and I asked her about it. It was like a gernade went off in the car. She though I was meaning we were done and did not need to go anymore. We would also every other week see our pastor.

We commited every week for three months to Mc. And yes it was not cheap $120 a visit. But alteast my insurance paid for half after $500. We could have found a in network doctor but this one was recommended.

What I have found is you can forgive the other person but will never forget. just like surgery you will always have a scar. But I am not the kind for person to condem some one for life. We all make mistakes. And I always beleive the hardest things in life are worth more than taking the easy path. Yes I could have took the easy path and got a divorce but what would that really do? Split all our money and assest, kids, etc.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Yeah thats what Im thinking. I get so excited about going to counseling..how lame am I? LOL


A sure sign of a sick mind.


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## mack25 (Apr 6, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> WH and I have been in counseling. Once together, once each separately and we go together again this week.
> 
> Im curious if other couples who attend counseling and go separately ever talk about the counseling session with each other?
> 
> ...


We had the exact same thing after my WW made out drunk with some random dude. First session together, second session half with her and half we me, all together since.


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## mack25 (Apr 6, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> WH and I have been in counseling. Once together, once each separately and we go together again this week.
> 
> Im curious if other couples who attend counseling and go separately ever talk about the counseling session with each other?
> 
> ...


Our sessions were exactly the same after my WW had a drunk make out with some random dude. First session together, second session half with WW and half with me, rest since have been together. I think they do that to get some info that either partner doesn't want to share.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

LetDownNTX,

If you are wondering what is going to happen, why don't you take 5 minutes at the start of your next session and ask the counselor.

My MC was horrible... sided with EX and pushed her to D... My experience was awful. I hope your is good.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LetDownNTX said:


> In the last month he has definitely been more open to communicating. Its been really nice. Nothing like it was before! I dont feel like Im walking on eggshells or afraid to say what Im thinking. I think that comes along with being fed up with the situation as it was and saying "no more BS".


I am really glad to read this. My earlier comment was a product of your history - the fact that your husband continually has shut you down to the point you just didn't bother trying to talk to him any more. I am very happy that's changed!


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

We sometimes talk about what was discussed in our IC sessions, but not always. I was more curious as 1st, but as my hyper vigilance is calming down it's easier to let go if she doesn't want to talk about it. There are also things that I'm talking about in my sessions that I'm not ready to talk to her about. Half formed ideas that I need to solidify for myself, without her influence.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

With both counsellors we had individual sessions; it kind of ate into me what was discussed between my ex and the counsellor, but I didn't ever ask.

I can see why they are a "good" idea, but I also think the ground rules should be clearly set out in advance.

With the 2nd (good) counsellor we ended up in the situation that I had said anything we discussed was fine to bring up in the joint sessions, but my ex had not given the same permission. It caused some awkward moments.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I am really glad to read this. My earlier comment was a product of your history - the fact that your husband continually has shut you down to the point you just didn't bother trying to talk to him any more. I am very happy that's changed!


Thank you Hope. Its been really nice being able to express myself and not worrying about his anger or crappy attitude. He seems to really be enjoying counseling and wanting to make things right. We did hit a bump in the road yesterday and it resulted in some fussing and crying (on my part). He feels like he wants to make things right for us and has been working really hard and its upsetting for him when I hit a road block. For some reason he thinks that the road block erases all of his previous efforts and I dont see it that way at all. Yesterday was her birthday and it bothered me alot. I told him he cant expect me to flip a switch and not hurt, not worry and not think anymore about the past. That in time it will be less but its all very fresh with no real healing in the last 6 years. Someone likened it to surgery....you always have a scar..I liked that!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> With both counsellors we had individual sessions; it kind of ate into me what was discussed between my ex and the counsellor, but I didn't ever ask.
> 
> I can see why they are a "good" idea, but I also think the ground rules should be clearly set out in advance.
> 
> With the 2nd (good) counsellor we ended up in the situation that I had said anything we discussed was fine to bring up in the joint sessions, but my ex had not given the same permission. It caused some awkward moments.


We also have agreed that anything said in separate sessions can be brought up in joint sessions. I think sometimes its easier for people who cant express themselves clearly to share deep thoughts without their spouse there. I dont have that problem!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

I really love our counselor! So glad I found him! I liked the last one but this one seems so much better. I think that my WH likes him because he doesnt want to focus too much on the past (aside from some things that will have to be addressed as time goes) and is more about looking towards the future and making it a better one. He keeps reminding my WH that he wont find another person like me!! HAHA! Im special!!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> I really love our counselor! So glad I found him! I liked the last one but this one seems so much better. I think that my WH likes him because he doesnt want to focus too much on the past (aside from some things that will have to be addressed as time goes) and is more about looking towards the future and making it a better one. He keeps reminding my WH that he wont find another person like me!! HAHA! Im special!!


You are very special.. it takes a special person to do what you're doing. Intelligent, understanding, honest, caring etc.. You've got it all going on.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

russell28 said:


> You are very special.. it takes a special person to do what you're doing. Intelligent, understanding, honest, caring etc.. You've got it all going on.


Thank you Russell!! Im sure it has nothing to do with the money I give him each time I walk in the door!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Pardon my french but this **** is hard!! I never thought it was easy but each time get harder!!

Things seem to be going better for WH and I but Im still a mess. The past haunts me at every turn and I dont know how to fight it off.

Counseling has been going ok, I am the big talker when we are there and WH just chills and waits to be asked something. He said he doesnt know what he's supposed to talk about he thought things were better.

We had a situation this morning that bothered me so I asked him about it and he said "really are you kidding me" so I walked out of the room and went to cook breakfast. My hands were shaking because I was taken by surprise by the situation but I wasnt crying or angry, just confused mostly. He came down for breakfast and just watched me then he said "Do you not believe me" and I said "I dont know what to believe anymore", well that set him off. He dumped his breakfast in the trash and left for work. 

Of course there was me texting him after he left telling him that the way he reacts and deals with things isnt very productive, so he calls and fight ensues. He says things like "its never going to get better, its never going to change" which in turn only makes me feel like he has no hope which takes mine away. Its just so damn frustrating.

He said that he hasnt done anything wrong, he's allowed me to track him, etc and then I still dont believe him. Really, this crap went on for 6 long years....and Im just supposed to be over it and never think he'd do it again?! 

I just keep asking myself if I'll ever stop worrying. I guess that last time, thinking I was in R for 3 years and then getting it back in my face really took every ounce of trust I had in him away.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Honestly, LD - it sounds like he behaved as he thought you wanted just long enough to reel you back in and now thinks he can go back to the way it was.

If you were my sister, I'd tell you to cut bait and run. 

Yeah, he 'allowed' you to track him and he STILL continued the affair and he wonders why you still doubt and question things?

How DARE he even question your position right now!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

no heavy lifting there, not even light lifting


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Sh-t!! It's hard enough when BOTH spouses are working at it. You have it like exponentially difficult with that guy. Sorry, I'm having a tough time calling him your husband at this point.

My hands are shaking on this f'ng keyboard right now as I type to you. I can't even put my thoughts properly into words and for the last 5 minutes have typed and backspaced like a dozen f'ng times.

That dude doesn't deserve a f'ng ounce of your energy any more.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

the passive aggressive horsesh!t from him gets me more than anything else


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He's back to getting p!ssed if you put any pressure on. This sets you back on your heels and makes you defensive, which is how he gets you to behave.

Please don't take his bait. Please. Do a mini-180 to shore yourself up. You seem committed to trying to recover this. Six years is a helluva long time. He has a serious relationship with the OW that he has promised, again, to abandon. You both have a long road ahead to have a chance with the marriage. He has to stop eating cake and you have to stop taking cr*p.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Go re-read your "iPhone Text Recovery" thread.

Go read your post from New Year's and your resolution to yourself....I reposted it on Page 12 in the above thread.

I am 100% with AR on his passive aggressive crap. That burns me up more than anything. His pious responses to you and his disdain simply disgust me.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Truth is that Im not going to leave over this one situation. Im upset about it because things have been going well and when I say well I doubt Im speaking to everyones standards. I have gotten more from him in the last month in a half then I have gotten in years. That means something to me! 

Most little issues we have been able to talk about and work through fairly quickly but this ONE issue set him off because I was snooping in his email and found an expense report with something in the town where he used to go to meet her. Just seeing the name of the town made me shake. His reason was likely but there is still the possibility that it was a lie. The reason I think its more likely then not is because of the tracking device on his phone and I am always watching him throughout the day. The one time he went there he took a picture of the guy he was having lunch with to reassure me. As far as I have seen (via tracking) he hasnt been back there, not even on this day. Im not delusional and I do know that there are ways around things, like texts..phone calls etc that make them hard to track BUT in his job he has to have his phone with him at all times so its easy to believe he wouldnt have left it behind anywhere to go to this town.

He is not a patient person, never has been...obviously I have the patience of a saint. He gets really frustrated really fast and Ive learned to adapt and deal with it because that is the way he is. Im sure its frustrating for him to feel like he's doing things right and then have me doubt him! To me, considering what he has done to me in the past, and how often he has put doubt in my mind its understandable but he doesnt get that...at all.

Im not opposed to leaving....I dont want to leave but I know that after this last DDay my heart wont be the same. I just get so scared sometimes that Im going to believe its "real" again and its going to be a big fat lie. How do you not worry about that?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

LetDownNTX said:


> Truth is that Im not going to leave over this one situation. Im upset about it because things have been going well and when I say well I doubt Im speaking to everyones standards. I have gotten more from him in the last month in a half then I have gotten in years. That means something to me!
> 
> Most little issues we have been able to talk about and work through fairly quickly but this ONE issue set him off because I was snooping in his email and found an expense report with something in the town where he used to go to meet her. Just seeing the name of the town made me shake. His reason was likely but there is still the possibility that it was a lie. The reason I think its more likely then not is because of the tracking device on his phone and I am always watching him throughout the day. The one time he went there he took a picture of the guy he was having lunch with to reassure me. As far as I have seen (via tracking) he hasnt been back there, not even on this day. Im not delusional and I do know that there are ways around things, like texts..phone calls etc that make them hard to track BUT in his job he has to have his phone with him at all times so its easy to believe he wouldnt have left it behind anywhere to go to this town.
> 
> ...




The bolded parts, why in the he!! isn't he learning to adapt? and control his sh1t, why is it you? and damn right you don't trust him or believe him, boo hoo poor him, why cant he say 
" Honey I know you don't believe me or trust me right now and I understand, but I'm willing to do what ever is needed to regain that, no matter what it takes or how long" and FRIGGIN DO IT!!! without complaining or contempt.

He sounds like he is so full of himself.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Truth is that Im not going to leave over this one situation. Im upset about it because things have been going well and when I say well I doubt Im speaking to everyones standards. I have gotten more from him in the last month in a half then I have gotten in years. That means something to me!
> 
> Most little issues we have been able to talk about and work through fairly quickly but this ONE issue set him off because I was snooping in his email and found an expense report with something in the town where he used to go to meet her. Just seeing the name of the town made me shake. His reason was likely but there is still the possibility that it was a lie. The reason I think its more likely then not is because of the tracking device on his phone and I am always watching him throughout the day. The one time he went there he took a picture of the guy he was having lunch with to reassure me. As far as I have seen (via tracking) he hasnt been back there, not even on this day. Im not delusional and I do know that there are ways around things, like texts..phone calls etc that make them hard to track BUT in his job he has to have his phone with him at all times so its easy to believe he wouldnt have left it behind anywhere to go to this town.
> 
> ...


LetDown, what are you getting out of this relationship? I read your threads and not sure what you are getting besides having a husband (title). You seem to be doing all of the work and after years of betrayal, you get ONE month of joy? I don't get it. Having a serial cheater is one thing, but he doesn't seem to really respect you at all or the marriage. How long do you plan on tracking him all day? That's no way to live. Either you are going to stay and deal with him and his treatment (other women, etc.) and look away to keep some sanity or you leave. He knows you aren't going anywhere so he has no real incentive to change for any substantial period of forever. Forever is how long he needs to prove his trustworthiness. Please don't accept less.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> The bolded parts, why in the he!! isn't he learning to adapt? and control his sh1t, why is it you? and damn right you don't trust him or believe him, boo hoo poor him, why cant he say
> " Honey I know you don't believe me or trust me right now and I understand, but I'm willing to do what ever is needed to regain that, no matter what it takes or how long" and FRIGGIN DO IT!!!
> 
> He sounds like he is so full of himself.


I cant say that I dont agree with you!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

asia said:


> LetDown, what are you getting out of this relationship? I read your threads and not sure what you are getting besides having a husband (title).


This is the reason that I dont post here as much as I used to. I read alot of threads but when it comes to talking about my own issues I have stopped. Until today, Im not sure why I slipped today. 

No one is with me every day of every week to know what goes on in my life. I am not miserable every waking moment. I have honestly been very happy the last month and a half. Things have been great in comparison to what they were. We never stopped having fun together, doing things, laughing, etc. Its doubled since that miserable day in April! Then I make one post because Im having a bad day and Im an idiot for staying.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> This is the reason that I dont post here as much as I used to. I read alot of threads but when it comes to talking about my own issues I have stopped. Until today, Im not sure why I slipped today.
> 
> No one is with me every day of every week to know what goes on in my life. I am not miserable every waking moment. I have honestly been very happy the last month and a half. Things have been great in comparison to what they were. We never stopped having fun together, doing things, laughing, etc. Its doubled since that miserable day in April! Then I make one post because Im having a bad day and Im an idiot for staying.


I'm sorry LetDown. I meant no harm. I was just asking a question having read your threads. I catch a lot of hard questions here when I post too so I know how you feel.

I don't recall anyone calling you an idiot. From the way it appears, he doesn't care nearly as much about the marriage as you do. We only know what you share and from your own words, he is not 100% invested the way you would like him to be. So by asking what are you getting out of it was a reflection of things you speak about. The one day in April isn't the beginning of your story. I guess its hard for me because I stayed and worry alot too but reading your posts is like a mirror to me. It gets me asking myself the same things. I deserve more than a year or two of happiness while he has fond memories of his time outside of the marriage. If a month here and there makes you happy and you can deal with his being in love with other women throughout these years, more power to you. But it doesn't seem like you are. Again sorry if this comes across in a manner you aren't comfortable with. Don't beat up the Tam people, its because we can all see what you are saying without the love feelings you have. We have no dog in the fight.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

We are NOT calling you an idiot. I think we've each said that over a dozen posts in a few threads. We DO NOT THINK YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!! 

What we see is a wonderful woman who is hurting because her pathetic excuse of a spouse continues to beat her over the head again and again and again. Then, when we say our part...WE are attacking you.

We aren't.

We want you to be happy.

EDIT to add: I will recuse myself from further involvement or responding. Good luck. I wish you peace.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

asia said:


> I'm sorry LetDown. I meant no harm. I was just asking a question having read your threads. I catch a lot of hard questions here when I post too so I know how you feel.
> 
> I don't recall anyone calling you an idiot. From the way it appears, he doesn't care nearly as much about the marriage as you do. We only know what you share and from your own words, he is not 100% invested the way you would like him to be. So by asking what are you getting out of it was a reflection of things you speak about. The one day in April isn't the beginning of your story. I guess its hard for me because I stayed and worry alot too but reading your posts is like a mirror to me. It gets me asking myself the same things. I deserve more than a year or two of happiness while he has fond memories of his time outside of the marriage. If a month here and there makes you happy and you can deal with his being in love with other women throughout these years, more power to you. But it doesn't seem like you are. Again sorry if this comes across in a manner you aren't comfortable with. Don't beat up the Tam people, its because we can all see what you are saying without the love feelings you have. We have no dog in the fight.


I have nothing against anyone here. I know that most here only want whats best for the OP when they come here. Heck when i came here I was trying to tell people what they should do when I couldnt even do what I should have been doing. I finally just started to be supportive and support whatever they wanted because Im not married to their spouse, I dont have their history.

Its just really hard because I do see the good in my husband. Its not all bad. I know that I complain about the bad but obviously Im not that desperate that he would make me totally miserable and I would stay out of desperation. I stay because I believe that he's capable of so much more. I married him because he loved me and adored me and treated me wonderful. I stayed this time because we had many talks and tears and he told me he felt like he needed to be "fixed" and I love him enough to wait that out and see if it happens. The situation today, as far as Im concerned wont happen again because I wont allow it..his defensiveness over a situation that he created. He can either get right or get out. Im okay with that if thats what happens. It would suck, I would be hurt but it wont kill me..if this hasnt..him leaving wont either!

I just happen to be having a bad day today and felt like reaching out to my "friends".


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> This is the reason that I dont post here as much as I used to. I read alot of threads but when it comes to talking about my own issues I have stopped. Until today, Im not sure why I slipped today.
> 
> No one is with me every day of every week to know what goes on in my life. I am not miserable every waking moment. I have honestly been very happy the last month and a half. Things have been great in comparison to what they were. We never stopped having fun together, doing things, laughing, etc. Its doubled since that miserable day in April! Then I make one post because Im having a bad day and Im an idiot for staying.


You're sticking with it. Working at it. I know what you're going through as much as I think I can.

I think it's great that you are trying to make things work and I know how hard it is to do.

Please, keep trying. I suppose it's easier to make a negative post than a positive one.

Keep at it. I, for one, am rooting for you and I am sure others are too.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

then tell us what he is doing right


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Dig, I dont think you're beating me up, or anyone else here. Its just not what I want to hear right now. I know I should know better then to come here and expect to hear what I want but when you're having a bad day and just want to talk about it, do you want to hear people tell you that you should leave your wife? You chose to stay with your wife, she has been doing her part...Im happy for you that she has. I chose to stay with my husband although he doesnt do things the way that I would do them, or the way that is expected of most people. In the past I have let him get by with it. The last month and a half I havent and he honestly hasnt really tried to get away with it. If something was bothering me we talked about it. TODAY....maybe it was my approach? Maybe it was his response? I dont know but it just seemed to get all bent out of shape leaving me feeling down about the whole thing. It doesnt help that Im PMSing (Bet you cant use that as an excuse, can ya Dig?? LOL).

I am sorry if I implied this time or in the past that anyone has called me an idiot, the truth is that I feel like an idiot!!!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

You're not an idiot at all. You're a beautiful woman that we all care a lot about, which is why we all want to thump him on the head when he behaves like this.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you for the laugh! 

I said I wasnt going to accept anything less then what I deserve this time around and so far things have been good. I am very disturbed that today started the way that it did. The day is not over, maybe it can be salvaged, maybe not! Its just disappointing when you've been moving forward and have a set back.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> You're not an idiot at all. You're a beautiful woman that we all care a lot about, which is why we all want to thump him on the head when he behaves like this.


A million likes ^^^


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You are far, far too nice and too much of a good person to really see what he is doing to you.

How can you say he's only just done this 'one thing'??

I know you feel beat up here, but that's all part of it too. You say you posted to hear what you wanted to hear. Well, I think you're stronger than you give yourself credit for. I think you posted because you KNEW what we'd all say and deep down you WANT to face reality but you can't do so consciously yet.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> then tell us what he is doing right



He has been texting me frequently from work
He calls me during the day
When something is bothering me we talk about it
If he seems off or I seem off we talk about it
He shows me so much more attention and affection
Our sex life has improved greatly
He has reassured me numerous times that he is done and doesnt want to continue the way he was
He tells me he loves me
If he sees Im down or sad he reaches for me or holds my hand
We go out together more and do fun things
We are able to talk more about things that we used to argue about

These may not seem like a lot to anyone else but for me it is huge considering the disconnect Ive felt from him for so long.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You are far, far too nice and too much of a good person to really see what he is doing to you.
> 
> How can you say he's only just done this 'one thing'??
> 
> I know you feel beat up here, but that's all part of it too. You say you posted to hear what you wanted to hear. Well, I think you're stronger than you give yourself credit for. I think you posted because you KNEW what we'd all say and deep down you WANT to face reality but you can't do so consciously yet.


I meant this ONE thing since the last DDay. I know he's done mountains of **** to me before that but on the last DDay he begged for forgiveness and another chance saying he was wrong, stupid and had ruined our marriage. I have been in it this long, what is another chance at this point?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You are far, far too nice and too much of a good person to really see what he is doing to you.
> 
> How can you say he's only just done this 'one thing'??
> 
> I know you feel beat up here, but that's all part of it too. You say you posted to hear what you wanted to hear. Well, I think you're stronger than you give yourself credit for. I think you posted because you KNEW what we'd all say and deep down you WANT to face reality but you can't do so consciously yet.


Busted!


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

LetDown, keeping in mind the good days and overlooking the bad ones are the only way to do this. I know it is frowned upon here what I am about to say but I want to see you do better. Set your expectations to expect him not be honest, he more than likely will have other women, and that you are going to stay no matter what (be honest with yourself, no need to come here and share if this is the route you take). You love him through everything, whether he deserves it or not. Keep letting your hopes get high and not doing anything about it when he doesn't measure up is going to eat you alive if you keep it up. So deal with the reality of what you have and it will make things less hurtful because you would be detaching. Have all of the laughs and fun you have with the knowledge of any day he may turn do something else dishonest, and you will love him regardless. You said you loved him enough to wait and see if his conversion is working, start putting some of that love aside for yourself. What are you going to do if his OW decide she wants to come back? You know you are not going to leave so decide what kind of life you want in the confines of what he is offering. If you continue to invest your heart in this marriage, keep constant awareness that it can be crushed in a flash. Protect yourself while you love him through this. It's been six years and you said you have lost friends because they think you should leave him. Husbands respect wives who respect themselves. It took me a long time and plenty of hurt to figure that out. I kinda learned it from one of his OW. Some of the others begged and pleaded with my husband to stay with them. One didn't and I overheard him saying to a friend of his that he never heard from her again and how he thought she had probably moved on and forgot about him. (There was no feeling attached, he was stating facts). I was over joyed to know they weren't secretly in contact and upset that he spoke of admiration for her not hanging around for crumbs. Then I realized I needed to make him see me that way so I detached and now he remarks how strong and confident I am. WTH right? BUT I am better for showing my own respect.

Next time you go to counseling, YOU don't say anything. YOU sit around and be not talkative or say things like "I thought things were getting better". I promise you he will take notice and begin to worry about why you aren't going all in during your sessions. Then relay some of that detachment to other things. No one respects someone who will let them keep hurting them. Once he sees you start protecting yourself from his harm, he will either get right or get gone! Chin up!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

LetDown, you are indeed a strong woman, stronger than you think. Believe it.
We care.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You strike me as a woman who is both very smart, emotionally and intellectually, and very kind-hearted.

This is a jackpot for any man.

It also means that you are insightful enough to understand the complexity of your own heart and this knowledge in and of itself can make the pain more acute.

Your H could really be having some conversion. People do it & his behavior so far is more positive than negative, so we all can see why you want to keep trying. Mostly we see the sort of person you are and understand that it's probably not in your nature to turn your back on a man who wants to be a better person for you and your family.

I hope for you that he wins the battle. I'm sending you vibes from the left coast to keep him honest and to give you some long-deserved happiness.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you Alte!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Thought I would give an update although not much has changed. R is super hard but the hardest part is fighting the demons within. One day I feel like life is getting better the next I feel lost. Its a constant up and down. I have depended too much on him for my happiness and that usually ends with me feeling inadequate, unwanted, etc.

We are still going to counseling...not we are going every other week. I just felt it was stupid to go and talk about the same stuff and never get anywhere. By that I mean that when we would go in there he was always "fine" and if I wasnt good then I was the one with an issue that needed to be worked on. I understand that all of the feelings I have inside are feelings that only I can work through but its terrible annoying when your spouse says he's "fine" all the time and you have all these messed up emotions going on inside. A few weeks ago I literally lost it in therapy saying I was sick of feeling this way and sick of him not getting it and that it seemed pointless to keep trying. The next week the counselor wanted to see me alone. In the end he voiced his opinion that this was probably all I was going to get from my WH and that I needed to decide if it was enough, if I could live with him like this and be happy. AGAIN.....its all on me! UGH!

Whenever Im having a bad day and I talk to him or say something he says he is fine and that I no reason to not feel secures, etc. We do things together, we laugh, we enjoy each other but there is always that big damn elephant in the room. Everytime he says he is fine I want to punch him in his face. I guess in his world he is fine but I tried to explain to him that sometimes I feed off of his actions and when he doesnt seem fine but says he is fine I doubt that. I mean there were times when things were NOT fine and he would say it was fine, so taking his word for it isnt always the safest thing to do.

I dont think that he has continued to cheat or keep in contact with the OW, I have seen no signs of it, if he has. I am not an idiot so I know there is always the chance that he is/has but I cant dwell on it all the time.

Aside from the A things have been a little stressful with his work, my work and finances so it hasnt helped much for excitement in the bedroom. I think that sometimes i put too much emphasis on it but I cant help it. When things are going on in the bedroom I wonder if they are going on else where. He says its the stress and he just isnt in the mood but that doesnt deter my thought process which just puts me back in a funk. Considering the HB we were doing for the month after last DDay and now its slowly dropped off to once a week or once every two weeks. 

Amongst all this I have started to realize that my self employment SUCKS and I need out!! Ive done this for 17 years and it just isnt cutting it. Alot of the time we have struggled financially has been because of me and I think that causes some resentment from WH. Of course there were times that we are rolling in the dough because of me but those days have dwindled. Being home, being cheated on, and going through this whole miserable process has caused me to think little of myself. I feel like I have little to no worth and Im tired of feeling this way. With that said I have decided to go back to school and be something when I grow up. Bold statement for someone thats 40, huh? LOL Im pretty excited about it and should be able to start classes October 1st. Wh has said he will support me in my decision to go back but doesnt think it will benefit us soon enough as we need help now. He doesnt ask me questions about it and it makes me feel like he just isnt interested in what Im doing or how Im feeling about it all. Its quite frustrating.

I guess Ive vented enough!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> A few weeks ago I literally lost it in therapy saying I was sick of feeling this way and sick of him not getting it and that it seemed pointless to keep trying. The next week the counselor wanted to see me alone. *In the end he voiced his opinion that this was probably all I was going to get from my WH and that I needed to decide if it was enough, if I could live with him like this and be happy. AGAIN.....its all on me! UGH!*


Can you? Is who your WH is enough for you? It really doesn't sound like he is going to change and barely sounds like he is remorseful. He doesn't really acknowledge your feelings and isn't doing any heavy lifting to see how he can repair things with you. 

Are you ok with his being "fine" the rest of your marriage? 

I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm sure it is extremely frustrating to try to repair things only to have him stonewall.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

First, glad to hear that you are alive and well .

Second, it's no surprise that you want to punch him in the face sometimes - he's a hit and run driver - he ran you over again and again for years & now he's 'fine.' It's completely natural to want to plant one in his kisser.

Most important, though, LetDwn, is your desire to change your professional situation. That is great! Your self-esteem will be much improved if you change that up now. Your whole marital landscape could become much clearer once you start to feel stronger as an independent woman.

As always, best of luck to you.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Can you? Is who your WH is enough for you?


Thats the million dollar question isnt it?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Please, don't hesitate, go to school!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Please, don't hesitate, go to school!


Ive already taken the steps I need to take, just waiting to get my credits transfered and the financial aid sorted. Its definitely something Im not going to change my mind about. Im ready!


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

We're just starting MC; the counselor told us he'd be having one session with each of us individually, so that sounds like a common standard operating procedure.

What I really wanted to comment on, though, was the difference between wayward husbands and wayward wives. I think people on TAM do come down hard on waywards in general - almost never enough heavy lifting, never showing enough remorse, etc. 

But most wayward men (gender generalization alert) seem to have a more difficult time practicing humility for an extended period of time - well, let's face it, even for a short period of time. Women don't have as much difficulty focusing on or contemplating their faults (we do it all the time - for example, when it comes to looking in the mirror and listing parts of our bodies we don't like!).

The sustained humility and readiness to access true remorsefulness that's required to help a BS heal is very hard on the ego. A male ego is probably less "inclined" to be good at this sort of thing, while women can do this with greater ease due to more of a natural tendency to be hard on themselves. 

I'm not saying men get a "pass" but I am saying that we should be realistic in our expectations: it will likely be like pulling teeth with most wayward husbands, and their egos WILL get in the way. If WE, the BS's who live with them, see more reasons to stay than to leave, and if we love them, and if they're willing to try, even if they aren't "poster boys" for rebuilding after infidelity, it's better to give it a shot because over the LONG haul, it might be worth it.

I'm hopeful because I believe effort PLUS time can make a difference. We do have to learn from this, about ourselves, about each other, about how to "do" marriage better - AND the passage of time will help too. By putting the awfulness further in the past, and by helping the healing. I hope it gets better for us both.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> We're just starting MC; the counselor told us he'd be having one session with each of us individually, so that sounds like a common standard operating procedure.
> 
> What I really wanted to comment on, though, was the difference between wayward husbands and wayward wives. I think people on TAM do come down hard on waywards in general - almost never enough heavy lifting, never showing enough remorse, etc.
> 
> ...


I think you make some very valid points. I have not wanted to give my WH a free pass but at times I just dont think that he's capable of some of the things that are expected from a BS. I know there are alot here that could do what it takes and I know there are alot of guys capable of it, I just dont think he is capable of doing it by the book. Whenever I have an issue and bring it up that something is bothering me, he will not necessarily see it the way that Ive seen it but he does try to make things right in the end. The best way that I can sum it up is that he just doesnt get it, at times!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> I think you make some very valid points. I have not wanted to give my WH a free pass but at times I just dont think that he's capable of some of the things that are expected from a BS. I know there are alot here that could do what it takes and I know there are alot of guys capable of it, I just dont think he is capable of doing it by the book. *Whenever I have an issue and bring it up that something is bothering me, he will not necessarily see it the way that Ive seen it but he does try to make things right in the end. The best way that I can sum it up is that he just doesnt get it, at times*!


Some of this sounds like typical man v. woman communications. Especially the bolded part.

Don't get me wrong. I also think that you have held on to a dim light of hope for a very long time. You are a good woman, much more forgiving than most.

So proud of your efforts to get an education. It seems that 40 is a magical time for many. Time to re-evaluate. Time to try new things.

Your story is actually one of the most perplexing to me. Everything points toward you being a strong person with high value. Whenever you decide to finally let him go, you will survive. If you stay, I hope it gets to a happy spot soon.

Take care!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Amongst all this I have started to realize that my self employment SUCKS and I need out!! Ive done this for 17 years and it just isnt cutting it. Alot of the time we have struggled financially has been because of me and I think that causes some resentment from WH. Of course there were times that we are rolling in the dough because of me but those days have dwindled. Being home, being cheated on, and going through this whole miserable process has caused me to think little of myself. I feel like I have little to no worth and Im tired of feeling this way. With that said I have decided to go back to school and be something when I grow up. Bold statement for someone thats 40, huh? LOL Im pretty excited about it and should be able to start classes October 1st. Wh has said he will support me in my decision to go back but doesnt think it will benefit us soon enough as we need help now. He doesnt ask me questions about it and it makes me feel like he just isnt interested in what Im doing or how Im feeling about it all. Its quite frustrating.
> 
> I guess Ive vented enough!


Here are a couple of thoughts about the above post.

You obviously are not getting your feelings of self-worth validated by him. He may not be in the affair any more, but it still seems that he is not looking out for your best interests.

I am kind of old school on the second point. My role as a husband is to provide. The long run is much more important than the short. You getting an education is an investment that is well worth his short term wants. The two of you could cut costs, down-size your lives, get loans, ANYTHING to get you through the schooling. As a husband he should not be b!tching about you not bringing in the dollars. There should be some respect for your effort to get the degree/education/etc.

Do you think that he might be fearful of your decision to improve yourself? Maybe it undermines his ego, or makes him uncertain of your choice to continue to be with him.

There is a wiff of entitlement from your description of him. If he still is acting this way after an affair, it is unlikely that he will become they man that you hope for.

Hope these ramblings help. Hope you find some things to point you in the best path.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Here are a couple of thoughts about the above post.
> 
> You obviously are not getting your feelings of self-worth validated by him. He may not be in the affair any more, but it still seems that he is not looking out for your best interests.
> 
> ...



I guess one thing that really bothers me about him is that I am a SAHM, have been since before our first was born. He is now almost 17. I have saved us loads of money in daycare for sure, as we have 3 children, the youngest being 9. Because I knew that we couldnt have the life we wanted with me just staying at home I opened up a business to bring in an income. Like I stated before it has not been the best at providing but it did help and it still does. He is not "old school", he doesnt put much value on me being home to raise our children. He would have rather I been outside the home making a load of money. I am thankful that I was the one at home taking care of our children! It means something to me, not so much to him!

He does appear to feel entitled. The truth is that he has always displayed some of this behavior I just tended to look over it. Now after the ongoing A I am finding that Im less tolerable of the things I once looked over.

Wh was out of town this week for a few days. I had a dinner date with a gf of mine who ended up getting sick. I told Wh that I was still going out for a while because I needed to get out. Summer has been LONG with my three kids! LOL He didnt like the idea and didnt know "why all of a sudden I wanted to go out alone when I always say I feel sad when I see people eating alone" (Im weird...I know). Another instance a few days before, we were seperated in Barnes and Noble and he asked where I was via text. I replied but still didnt see him so I pulled out my phone to text him again and he walked up behind me, startled me and stared at my phone. He wouldnt take his eyes off of it until I showed him I was texting him to ask where he was. That, to me, is odd behavior..he usually doesnt care or seem to care but all of a sudden he doesnt want me going out alone and is wondering about my texts. I honestly think that this all comes from me not telling him everything anymore. I tell him what I need to tell him but being a SAHM I would be a jabber jaws when he came home in the afternoon, now Im more to myself and now with the idea of school....he might be feeling fearful of my choices to improve myself...I dont know?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

It sure sounds like he is fearful. My exWW was SUPER critical of anything I did during her A. She was very contrite for a few weeks after she finally confessed to it.

6-8 months post d-day, she sense my emotional withdraw and became the clingiest person ever. She would follow me to the men's room when we were in public. Lol!

Just saying that he probably is beginning to fear for his stability with his home life.

When I was in your spot, I decided D was easier. My two sons were 18 and 21, so it was not as hard as it would be for younger children.

As we get older, we treasure our time more. I wonder if you think about the risk from a wasted time perspective. Not to rush you, but I started thinking at 45 my options to move on would be a better use of my time.

It has to be harder for a woman. The numbers game begins to favor men as we get older. NOT SAYING THE 40 IS OLD! (just a cya for me mentioning age). Do you think that the longer you wait, the less you will have going in your favor? Just one last note for the day, I was so grateful that I found a woman near my age that had many of the good qualities that you reflect. I wonder if there is a good ole Texan that would treasure you.

Sometimes that leap of faith is so scary.

You will grow with education. That might give you a broader view of your value too.

Gotta go for the day.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> It sure sounds like he is fearful. My exWW was SUPER critical of anything I did during her A. She was very contrite for a few weeks after she finally confessed to it.
> 
> 6-8 months post d-day, she sense my emotional withdraw and became the clingiest person ever. She would follow me to the men's room when we were in public. Lol!
> 
> ...



I think that is the thing that has gone through my mind more and more lately...am I wasting my time? Some would say Ive already wasted enough but honestly Im the one that has to wake up in the morning and look at myself in the mirror. I have to be happy with the choices I made, whether good or bad.



If I were to find out that he cheated again I would be very angry with myself for giving him this last chance but honestly he's taken bigger steps this time then he ever has so I want to believe that he is really changing this time. Time will tell, right? I think that once I get done with school I will feel better about myself and maybe I'll decide this isnt worth it anymore, who knows?


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