# Can't fake it til' make it and it eats me alive knowing he's dying inside



## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Brief, short to point background: H and I married 12 yrs, together 18. Over last 1-2 years, slowly my sexual desire for him has diminished. Through counseling, we have learned our love languages are opposite, which appears to be normal for most. He is physical, I am quality.

Well, when I do meet 'part' of the physical need, I can tell by his actions it's either not enough, or not up to his expectations and then it feels like a further set back.

Example: Had a nice weekend. A 'quality time' weekend. With that said, MY love language has been met. Right? Yes, BUT, even though it was met, I still did not develope that desired feeling to meet his. Again, nice weekend. Sunday A.M. woke up early, he lying behind me, rubbing me, massaging me, just making me relaxed. As he is doing that, I start to think to self, 'rub him back, be in the moment and give this relaxed feling back.' So I do. It leads to me stroking him, and all of a sudden he stops me and says, 'this isn't about me.' So I stop, he continues, I fall back asleep. So wake up, go to church as family, spend day together running errands, come home, clean a bit, he does some things with our daughter...it turns into a typical yet comfortable and relaxing day for all of us. 

After put daughter to bed, we snuggled, watched a little tv. The snuggling and just touching feeling safe and comforted, that to me is like sex to him. So, we go to bed. He lies there with hands up over head, in the stance of what came to mind the 'don't touch me syndrome'. Kinda like the old, when your made at each other, fighting before bed, you both get in bed, and put up that invisible wall between as to say, 'you stay on your side, I'll stay on mine'..the 'don't touch me syndrome'. We start to get ingaged in another movie. I put my legs over his, playing the footsy thing. He comments how cute and little my feet are. I laughed, and he replies with I'd now those feet anywhere, I've known them for almost 20yrs. Again, I chuckle and say, thank you. So he rolls on side, snuggles up a bit. As we watch this movie, as he's snuggled up, I'm rubbing his hand drapped over me, our bodies are close and everything is fine. Or so I thought.

He leans in, kisses me and says 'goodnite'. He's always falling asleep before me, especially when watching movies, so I kiss him back again, tell him good nite and I love him. I rub his face a bit (habit I've done for years). Lightly rub his face and head to help him relax. I've always done this during times he's suffered sinus headaches etc. 

So, he now rolls over back to me. So, I roll over back to him, and finish teh movie. Within 15 maybe 20 minutes, he gets up and starts to walk out of room. I ask, 'where you going?' he says to his man bed. This is the reclyner. We call it that as in past hes had back trouble and he slept in that for almost 2 months. My daughter named it that so it's a standing 'joke' in the house.

Half hour goes by, I walk out and ask, 'Are you okay? Is your back bothering you? Want me to rub some painmed on it?' He replies with, "No, it's not that. I don't feel right back there with you. I think I'll move all my stuff upstairs." I go blank. I have nothing! My mind goes blank. I turn and go back to bed.

So, now my self talk mind, crazy mind and what I feel are millions of people in my head are trying to figure out, Is it because I didn't initiate again like I did this morning? He turned me away. Or, was that a 'set up'. A way to say, I'm giving you your need, now you give me mine..and since I didn't, since I didn't initiate...now he's mad. This is typical. It's what happens all the time. I feel the damned if I do, damned if I dont. 

I know he feels the same. Then, I wake up and he's text me before work and says, "good morning, hope you have a good day know you are truly loved". 

I thought, or felt, possibly this weekend was a small step of progress. Until I didn't follow through. This is what make me feel insane. I know he has needs, please understand. He deserves his needs met, I completely understand that as well. I cannot fake it. I cannot 'play' the role. Not only that, he will know. We've been together almost 20 years. He can sense my emotions, my feelings. About 3 weeks ago we did have sex. Not make love, sex. And ever since, it's been a rollercoaster. That is why I can't do the fake it til make it because if I do, it's then expected more and more and when it stops, I feel it sets me back even farther.

Never thought I'd lose my desire. I do miss it. I hate how I'm making him feel. I truly hate it.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Have you been to see your doctor? Maybe it is your contraceptive pill or some hormonal issue? Also I find exercise gets me and my missus more in the mood.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm on the receiving (rather, non-receiving) end, too. I absolutely do not understand the concept of "can't" when it comes to meeting such a simple need. There are hundreds of things I do all the time that I don't feel excited about but they are important to my wife, so I do them. I ask for two things. I'd like my wife to prepare breakfast on Saturday and I'd like to have some sort of sexual contact once a week. We're talking maybe one hour of her total time out of an entire week and that's apparently asking too much because she doesn't even attempt to do either. 
She has loads of expectations from me and I try to meet every one. What gives? Why is her happiness always more important than mine? Naturally, if she were sick or injured and couldn't perform, I'd deal with it. She's perfectly healthy enough to do anything she wishes to do. If even some homeless stranger needs something, she drops everything and is Johnny-on-the-spot. Why do I always end up the absolute last priority on her list? 
If you have a job, you fake it all the time. Sometimes you're on top of your game and sometimes you just put on a happy face and do what the job requires. In 49 years, I have never been in a position where I could just not do something expected of me. I've been shot at, cut, rocketed, mortared, beat on, worked at least two jobs most of my life, but never been in a position that I could just say, "I aint doing" or "I aint going". You are physically able to do pretty much anything he might need. His needs aren't a mystery to you. You know and you can. You won't and there's a huge difference between "won't" and "can't". 
I have all but entirely given up on even approaching mine for sex or intimacy. I'm not making any more deals or compromises. Frustration comes from expecting "A" but getting "B". I'll just not expect anything and accept the situation for what it is....basically a business arrangement. We work and share a house. No expectations = no frustrations. 
Your husband has been conditioned to expect rejection from you. You did that and probably spent a lot of time conditioning him. In a marriage, a husband should view his wife as a loving, compassionate, nurturing partner. He probably views you as the person who willfully denies him simple basic legitimate needs and who causes him to feel frustrated, deprived, ugly, and inadequate every day. Naturally, now when you make some overt romantic gesture, it seems surreal or fake to him. Charlie Brown doesn't trust Lucy to hold the football. Lucy would have to really go out of her way to win back that trust and it would take time.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

unbelievable said:


> I'm on the receiving (rather, non-receiving) end, too. I absolutely do not understand the concept of "can't" when it comes to meeting such a simple need. There are hundreds of things I do all the time that I don't feel excited about but they are important to my wife, so I do them. I ask for two things. I'd like my wife to prepare breakfast on Saturday and I'd like to have some sort of sexual contact once a week. We're talking maybe one hour of her total time out of an entire week and that's apparently asking too much because she doesn't even attempt to do either.
> She has loads of expectations from me and I try to meet every one. What gives? Why is her happiness always more important than mine? Naturally, if she were sick or injured and couldn't perform, I'd deal with it. She's perfectly healthy enough to do anything she wishes to do. If even some homeless stranger needs something, she drops everything and is Johnny-on-the-spot. Why do I always end up the absolute last priority on her list?
> If you have a job, you fake it all the time. Sometimes you're on top of your game and sometimes you just put on a happy face and do what the job requires. In 49 years, I have never been in a position where I could just not do something expected of me. I've been shot at, cut, rocketed, mortared, beat on, worked at least two jobs most of my life, but never been in a position that I could just say, "I aint doing" or "I aint going". You are physically able to do pretty much anything he might need. His needs aren't a mystery to you. You know and you can. You won't and there's a huge difference between "won't" and "can't".
> I have all but entirely given up on even approaching mine for sex or intimacy. I'm not making any more deals or compromises. Frustration comes from expecting "A" but getting "B". I'll just not expect anything and accept the situation for what it is....basically a business arrangement. We work and share a house. No expectations = no frustrations.
> Your husband has been conditioned to expect rejection from you. You did that and probably spent a lot of time conditioning him. In a marriage, a husband should view his wife as a loving, compassionate, nurturing partner. He probably views you as the person who willfully denies him simple basic legitimate needs and who causes him to feel frustrated, deprived, ugly, and inadequate every day. Naturally, now when you make some overt romantic gesture, it seems surreal or fake to him. Charlie Brown doesn't trust Lucy to hold the football. Lucy would have to really go out of her way to win back that trust and it would take time.


:smthumbup:


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

jamesa said:


> Have you been to see your doctor? Maybe it is your contraceptive pill or some hormonal issue? Also I find exercise gets me and my missus more in the mood.


Yes, jamesa. My OB said since my menstrul is still considered 'regular' for my age he won't do hormonal test. My primary physician feels its depression related and put me on anitdepressant. Just staring my 3rd week and not a huge difference other than I feel more 'calm/relaxed'. 

Before if H said he didn't feel right with me in bed, I'd get defensive or try to make him understand I'm not avoiding sex on purpose to hurt him or upset him. Now, when he makes comments, I go numb. Loss for words anymore.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Unbelievable:


> I ask for two things. I'd like my wife to prepare breakfast on Saturday and I'd like to have some sort of sexual contact once a week.


We both do lots for each other when it comes to Acts of Service or Affirmation. We do not 'make deals/request'. Personally feel if our love is turned into 'Lets make a deal' just to be happy, then what does that truly say about us as partners, companions? We should do things for eachother because we want to, chose to. Not for reward of sex. Just how I feel right now.



> Why do I always end up the absolute last priority on her list?


H is not last on priority list. But sex is. I still touch him. We sit and snuggle lots, we hug each day when I get home, we kiss each day and night. 



> Your husband has been conditioned to expect rejection from you. You did that and probably spent a lot of time conditioning him. In a marriage, a husband should view his wife as a loving, compassionate, nurturing partner. He probably views you as the person who willfully denies him simple basic legitimate needs and who causes him to feel frustrated, deprived, ugly, and inadequate every day. Naturally, now when you make some overt romantic gesture, it seems surreal or fake to him.


We have conditioned each other. He does feel I'm loving, compassionate and nuturing. I've been known to be over board on those traits. That's what's difficult, it doesn't lead to desire. It does seem fake. And it would still be fake if I did it as a request. Yes, we do fake lots of things as you stated. And no I won't and can't fake what is a very emotional passionate romantic connection for me with sex. 

Even if I decided 1x a week I will fake it, force myself mentally to have sex or pleasure him, it will be expected right away again and if it's not, it's back to square one. Our issues are not all sex. They go deeper and back years. Just all surfaced at once. But I feel, H feels, if I could just desire him like I did when I was 23, everything will be all better.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

emotionalwreck said:


> My primary physician feels its depression related and put me on anitdepressant. Just staring my 3rd week and not a huge difference other than I feel more 'calm/relaxed'.


Anti-depressants are known for further lowering one's sex drive, further inhibiting orgasm. *Wellbutrin* in one that is different & can increase a woman's drive. Maybe ask your DOC if you can be treated with this one. It could save your marraige. 

Whatever underlying issues have brought the 2 of you to this place, really needs sorted out. When you love someone deeply, you desire to please them , it is not work at all. It makes you happy & feels good inside to make them happy. 

Resentment, what has he done that you are still keeping score with? Does he realize that you are still holding on to these things ?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

emotionalwreck said:


> Yes, we do fake lots of things as you stated. And no I won't and can't fake what is a very emotional passionate romantic connection for me with sex.


That right there is the problem. You clearly state how you 'value' sex. But you're kidding yourself. You don't feel those things by your own admission, but you choose not to reduce the value either. A hand job, blow job, co masturbating, a playful strip-tease. None of those things cost a great deal in terms of an investment in intimacy - but could easily lead you there. But you won't do it if you don't feel it. Vicious cycle.

Although part of it is your husband's fault as well. He needs to flat out tell you what his expectations are, because he is busy trying to send out the right signals without sounding like a horn-dog - and then he gets frustrated when you don't pick up the queues. He fully expected you to come onto him in the scenario you outlined. When he rolled over to sleep? That was your last and biggest invitation to demonstrate to him that you were more invested in how HE felt, rather than watching a movie. I'm not saying your wrong - I'm just telling you, you missed it.

I know this story. We didn't make it. And yes it is sad - especially when you're on the train and can clearly see the end of the line, but still can't, or won't do anything to keep it from crashing off the rails.


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

While it sounds like there is some complacency going on(there are some good posts on that here: have you ever been in a rut?)

I also have to say this sounds like what I call the never-ending-spacious-cycle. The reason he's dying inside is because in his mind you no longer want him, and because he's dying inside you no longer see in him what you once did.

My advice? Go attack him...jump his bones constantly *until you start to feel what it is that you want from him(what you used to feel)* , it will happen but not without you taking steps to make it happen.
_Even if I decided 1x a week I will fake it, force myself mentally to have sex or pleasure him, it will be expected right away again and if it's not, it's back to square one. _ is a defeatist attitude. This is one thing he cannot fix for you guys, don't feel insane wondering IF he wants you to please him. Know that he does and go do it.

For months he has been driven crazy wondering what's wrong with him and now he's in a state of depression because not only is he texting you he loves you and giving you rubs and showing you he cares but you LET him casually move out of your bedroom.


He's lost, go help him find himself. 




------------------------
"Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all. -Van Horne


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

Your husband has been conditioned to expect rejection from you. You did that and probably spent a lot of time conditioning him. In a marriage, a husband should view his wife as a loving, compassionate, nurturing partner. He probably views you as the person who willfully denies him simple basic legitimate needs and who causes him to feel frustrated, deprived, ugly, and inadequate every day. Naturally, now when you make some overt romantic gesture, it seems surreal or fake to him.\


Absolutely spot on unbelievable!


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

Deejo said:


> That right there is the problem. You clearly state how you 'value' sex. But you're kidding yourself. You don't feel those things by your own admission, but you choose not to reduce the value either. A hand job, blow job, co masturbating, a playful strip-tease. None of those things cost a great deal in terms of an investment in intimacy - but could easily lead you there. But you won't do it if you don't feel it. Vicious cycle.
> 
> Although part of it is your husband's fault as well. He needs to flat out tell you what his expectations are, because he is busy trying to send out the right signals without sounding like a horn-dog - and then he gets frustrated when you don't pick up the queues. He fully expected you to come onto him in the scenario you outlined. When he rolled over to sleep? That was your last and biggest invitation to demonstrate to him that you were more invested in how HE felt, rather than watching a movie. I'm not saying your wrong - I'm just telling you, you missed it.
> 
> I know this story. We didn't make it. And yes it is sad - especially when you're on the train and can clearly see the end of the line, but still can't, or won't do anything to keep it from crashing off the rails.


Deejo you rock!


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

He gave you what you wanted, he met your needs "quality time" weekend. When it came time to show appreciation by meeting his needs, you failed. 

He wants you to pursue him. Husband lying in bed with hands behind his head to me means he wants to be licked, bit, something.

When he was in the recliner and he mentioned moving out of the bedroom, you turned and left him there. The message sent "ok by me." That cut deeply. If my h did that or said that there would be some sh!t hit the fan.

You say you can't fake it, soon he won't either.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If you met a mother with a baby in the stroller and you looked in the stroller to see an obviously malnourished tiny bag of bones, and this mother explained that she didn't feel hungry so she didn't feed the baby, you'd hardly call her compassionate or loving. You'd probably find her incredibly cruel and logically would report her to the police. The baby can't feed itself. Your husband has you to meet his sexual/intimacy needs. He can't go elsewhere without committing adultary. If sex is last on your priority list but it's high on his, then, your husband is last on your priority list. He has a need. He's not asking for anything other than the absolute basic minimum service required of every woman who wishes to even legally be considered "wife", not a "good wife", not a "great wife" just a barely legally acceptable one. Yeah, if you "give in", he will likely expect you to do so in the future. If he goes to work today, he'll probably have to go back again tomorrow. If the mother feeds the baby today, she'll have to feed it again. It would be great if it were always spontaneous and mutually earth-shaking. Even if it isn't, it's still your responsibility. You signed up for it and I doubt you are willing to relinquish that job to some other woman.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't think women have any idea what this does to their man. To their marriage. All the things you do all day are more important than him. You don't care about his needs, you don't desire him, you don't love him.

He is going to either pack it in and live in a loveless marriage or go find love somewhere else.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I'd also make the point that man...woman, it doesn't matter. The partner who is constantly rejected sexually will eventually distance themselves in other ways. In my case, hubby "wasn't into" sex and eventually I cut off the affection too, because to me it was just a tease. Less physical connection and the resentment from that led to less interest in doing other things together and now we rarely speak about anything significant, never touch and I plan to leave after the holidays. And in the interim coming to that decision, I've had two affairs because a life without feeling loved or desired is just miserable and I had this idea that I could have one "box" in my life where I had affection and passion and one "box" where I had the nice marriage that you're supposed to have for everyone to see.

It's not just about men being horny and women "having" to bear that burden, it's about real needs not being met and the consequences of that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Would it help to sit down with him and say let's start over fresh. We do the week end over again but this time I take care of your needs. May I ask you to think about your love for your husband, do you truly love him? Did you know that when a man is rejected by the woman he loves that he is emotionally devastated? He may feel like less of a man and he definatly feels you do not love him. From what I understand from reading that I have done, I have come to understand that for men in love, love sex takes on an emotional significance, he feels your love when you have sex. It would be the equivalent of him telling you that he does not love and repeating it every day. I never understood that, of course he may not tell you because he may be confused by his emotional feelings. 

If you don't beleive me read some of the threads from men in sexless marriages. The pain they express will open your eyes to what your husband feels. He is desperate to have you reassure him that you love him. I am not trying to negate what you feel but I just wonder if you understand what is happening to the man you love. Under the circumstances would you release him from the marriage so he can find a woman who can love him the way he needs? Sound like a terrible question but in light of how he feels and your inability to show him love it is not unreasonable and certainly it is a fair consideration. 

Can you change your feelings about showing the man you love that you truly love him? If not then maybe the best thing to do may be to release him if you really love and understand how emotionally devestated he feels. If you initiate the divorce and tell why, it may very well make it easier for him to move on to a loving relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I would guess these posts are very hard to read for you, I am sure you feel we are beating you up, ignoring your side. Please know , it is just to help you understand your husband, his reactions, that we say these things, these posters have spoken HIS heart- laid bare -before you. Do you believe it so? 

To begin to understand him - is to allow yourself to forgive him. We all "NEED" to feel loved & desired by our spouses, without this, what do we have left - but to feel like that baby in Unbelievable's very heart wrenching post, your husband has become emaciated deep within. 

I so agree with 4sure - about him leaving the room, He WANTED you to stop him !! He wanted you to pursue him. 

Please forgive him -from your heart, start afresh. If you love him, please him. Do it because you LOVE him. You need not another reason but this alone.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I thought about my post and I wanted to say that I do not want to add to your stress You obviously care and love your husband or you would not have posted. I thought it would be helpful for you to research how men who are in love feel about sex with the one they love. It really isn't jut a bit of fun although it is in part but there is an emotional component. . You may know that he is unhappy but you may not know exactly the depth of his pain. Women rarely realize unfortunately. So I just wanted to encourage you to do an internet search or search these forum and read the way men express their feelings. 

They would probably not express it to the their lady but the Internet is anonymous and they pour out their heart. Men sometimes find it hard to talk about emotions so they say it wrong - they may talk about wanting more sex and it may sound like a demand and when they get angry it seems even more than a demand. But you know what, the anger is hiding hurt - if he could cry he would have but society limits the range of emotions men can express so anger is a replacement for many emotions because anger is allowed. 

So don't be put off by his anger just decode it sensitively. 
I don't only feel sympathy for him I do for you to because I know you are in a bad place. It might also be helpful to read the stories of women who have been able to turn things around. The very best of luck for you and your H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I know my posts were blunt and rather harsh. I've been dealing with this problem for 8 years alone. Regardless of how nicely or harshly I approach the subject with my wife, it falls on deaf ears and the end result is the same. If there were a pill that would completely kill my own libido, I'd eat them like candy because the only reason sex is a problem in our relationship is because I still crave it. Perhaps if I didn't, we could at least cuddle and be intimate again without her fearing that I'd expect something more. I've been in relationships before and I didn't have to think about sex all the time. It was just a natural fact of life like eating meals. If it were physically possible to go for months without eating, one would naturally think almost exclusively about food. I don't like feeling resentful and frustrated. Life was actually easier for me when I was deployed to Iraq. It's more than about just sex. Because I'm married, all other intimate relationships are off-limits. Guys aren't like women. Women typically have deep, emotional, intimate relationships with other women (not sexual). I don't have deep, intimate relationships with guys. I have a wife. If she's unavailable, I may as well be completely alone on the moon. I didn't create the world. I didn't decide that people need social relationships. I didn't choose to feel sexual attraction. I hate it with a passion and if I could kill the part of me that requires sex and intimacy, I would do it in a heartbeat. I know my needs frustrate my wife. That's why I came up with the "deal" that I wouldn't even bring the topic up at all in exchange for her willingness to do something intimate and sexual once a week. It's not a perfect plan and it hasn't worked at all, but I thought the idea was a way to give her and I both some relief from the subject. 
I suppose it's selfish of me to unload on this forum and my words probably do make some people angry or uncomfortable. It's not my intent. I'm a cop and a soldier and can't really go to a shrink without risking being put on the rubber gun squad. People depend on me and I don't want them wondering if I have a screw loose. This is the closest I have to a friend or a therapist. Hope y'all understand and forgive my bluntness.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I know my posts were blunt and rather harsh. I've been dealing with this problem for 8 years alone. Regardless of how nicely or harshly I approach the subject with my wife, it falls on deaf ears and the end result is the same. If there were a pill that would completely kill my own libido, I'd eat them like candy because the only reason sex is a problem in our relationship is because I still crave it. Perhaps if I didn't, we could at least cuddle and be intimate again without her fearing that I'd expect something more. .


I don't wish to beat a dead horse but if you read what UB has written, you cannot help feeling the seriousness of this issue in marriage. To have a human being so distressed that he wants to cut out a part of himself gives me a terrible feeling of regret at what I put my H through for a year. These are the things I read that changed my attitude towards sex. I did not understand my husband felt this way he never told me in so many words. I beleive if more woman knew that lack of sex creates emotionl problems, most women who love their husbands and he is a good man they would not treat sex as a chore and consider it something their husbands should get over. 
UB if your wife read what your wrote do you think she would understand and change. Does she understand the emotional toll? I do not blame women totally I do think society promotes the ugly side of sex and male sexuality. Men should start a movement and present the true image of good men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

double post sorry


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The reason that many have strong opinions about this, is because we lived through it.

That scenario you described? I can't tell you how many times that exact scene played out in my marriage. Right down to leaving the bedroom, then feeling guilty about the fact that I desired my wife, after she had rejected or ignored me - and following up with telling her how much I loved her.

Nothing like reinforcing bad behavior ...

It physically hurts to read my story, written in someone elses words. Because I already know how this story, now your story, ends. If you keep looking for reasons why you _can't_ or won't change, instead of focusing on reasons why you can and should, then you will both stay stuck, and what is left of your marriage will rot right beneath your feet.

Don't know if you are still following the thread or not - if you are, I hope you, or someone else reading this thinks about the question.

Do you believe that you simply lack desire, or do you have an aversion to the idea of sex with your husband?

My wife had an actual aversion. If she agreed to sex, even reluctantly, there always came the point where she actually enjoyed the experience. But it was as if she forgot that she enjoyed it each time. What she focused on were the negative emotions that she associated with sex - instead of the positive ones.

To her, the idea of having sex with me put her on edge. It made her anxious. It was nothing but pressure. None of which needs to be the case. Her thinking - which I see in your words was;"If I do it now, he is going to expect it more often." That aversion got so out of control that my wife got to the point of believing that demonstrating, or accepting ANY form of physical affection would set an expectation for sex. That kind of thinking is incredibly damaged, and trust me, takes an immeasurable toll on the partner who wants to be close.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The world is chuck full of support for those with spouses who batter the body. There's really nothing for those who's spirits alone have been castrated or slowly starved to death. It would honestly be more humane to literally castrate someone or starve them to death. This goes for men and women. If you can't or won't BE a married partner, 100%, every day, then don't get married. If you're going to get into the canoe, pick up a damned paddle and do your part. If you're too sick, pissed off, stressed, liberated, prideful, drug dependent, or religous to put another human being first in your life every day for the rest of your life, then don't get married. If all you want is money, get a job, play the lottery, or poison a rich relative. If all you want is a housekeeper or a handyman, hire one.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

unbelievable said:


> I suppose it's selfish of me to unload on this forum and my words probably do make some people angry or uncomfortable. It's not my intent. I'm a cop and a soldier and can't really go to a shrink without risking being put on the rubber gun squad. People depend on me and I don't want them wondering if I have a screw loose. This is the closest I have to a friend or a therapist. Hope y'all understand and forgive my bluntness.


No, it is NOT selfish for you to come here & share. And no need to apologize for your bluntness - I see your carefully written posts as a "moving" mouthpeice for so many on the receiving end of this kind of pain, the good man who loves his wife with everything he has but is still left empty handed by no fault of his own. You may never know HOW many come across your posts and are changed by YOUR words. I believe that. 

My own heart aches, even tears have welled up just reading what you express sometimes, so human, it exposes the weakness in us all, the power of pain, so personal, it always seems to be more about your hurt than your anger /
resentment. This is how we SHOULD communicate to our spouses but so rarely do -and put them on the defensive. You always speak so well of her, how much you love her. This is not the norm on here. 

You have a GIFT for sharing to reach to the depths of another's soul on this issue, like noone else I personally feel -on this forum. I am even guilty of seeking out your posts just because of this, so insightful ALWAYS, no matter the subject matter. You could say I am a "fan". 

I want so bad for this to turn around for you, for others too. Sometimes I want to SCREAM for you to move on, leave her, she does not deserve you. 

Not sure of her personal beliefs but >>> If a Christian, she is in fact breaking HER VOWS !! 1 Cor 7:3-5 says -*The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband.* *In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.* *Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time*, *so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control*. 

Even the Holy Bible speaks to WHY men & women fall. I am not too crazy about the idea it states Satan here, I personally feel more of the blame is on the frigid heartless spouse & not some red horned devil. 

Maybe you have a calling, that going through all of this will have a HIGHER purpose somehow. Those who are going through the DESERT themselves always have a Passionate FIRE about them in their writing to reach multitudes. You have this about you - Have you ever thought about creating a BLOG? If ever, you can add a link to the bottom of your every post when you feel compelled to share about this. 

And Thank you for your faithful Service to your Country HERE and abroad. You are such a man's man with such an "unbelievable" good heart. 

Sorry -not meaning to hijack any threads here! Forgive me!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You're awfully sweet to say so. I don't know the first thing about creating a blog, although, judging from the number of folks with similar issues, there's probably a need for one. Glad you posted the bible text. That's exactly how I feel things are supposed to be and that verse may be why I do. God knows what He's doing and if I'm going through some trials, there's a good reason for it. I'll just stay in my lane and let Him do whatever He's gonna do and trust it'll turn out in the long run. It always does. Your encouragement was most needed today and appreciated greatly. I'll be tougher tomorrow. Thanks!


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Guys aren't like women. Women typically have deep, emotional, intimate relationships with other women (not sexual).


Nope, doesn't make a dang bit of difference. I have great female friends, who I love dearly and are a great support system, but they aren't anything close to what I feel my husband ought to have been. No matter what secrets you may share with your girlfriends, that and a hug and a peck on the cheek at lunch don't hold a candle to the connection and intimacy that sex helps cement in a relationship.

I've been where you were at...and I ate, I drank, I exercised til I could hardly walk, gained some weight, lost even more.... I did everything I could to pretend that I just didn't even HAVE "girl parts" and that it wasn't such a big deal, blah, blah, blah. And now, I hate even being in the same bed he's in and take every excuse I can to sleep on the couch in the office. I've finally decided that at 36 with no kids to worry about, there HAS to be someone out there who will think I'm pretty, I'm interesting and will be the kind of partner that I thought I was getting before. And soon, I'll be headed off to find that guy, whoever he may be.

And yes, while other things are certainly not working well with us, I would say front and center that the biggest nail in the coffin of my marriage is sex.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I wonder why the OP does not come back and give her reaction to the posts. I think the discussion has been really balanced and no one got on her case. All was said to try to help her because she seemed to be in distress.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Haven't been able to get on here past day or so. You all have extremely valid points and advice. Yes, some a little more hard to swallow than others but that is why I am here. There is a lot more involved between H and I than JUST sex. I guess deep down, my 'resentment' or possibly my strong emotional sense or what I feel is breakdown rather, has completely taken over and the desire has been hidden so far down I just can't find it. Someone said I value sex too much. That's been said to me before and I honestly do not get that? We have been together 18yrs, married 12 of them, and have an 11yr age diff. So much has happend, developed over years, so many things have surfaced through only 3 months of counseling that we both have realized our issues go back several years and we both became blind to it I guess. 

After the first day or so of posts, H and I did have sex. Maybe this is where the 'value' too much comes in because I was in the mind set of it being just sex, getn off I guess. That hurts me because there should be more involved than that. This is my H for pete sake! We both enjoyed it and the part that saddens me, next day I get a note..."Thank you for that, it meant a lot." It meant a lot? Why do I feel like such a freakin horrible person for just having mindless sex with my husband? Shouldn't it mean something emotionally? Forgive me everyone, I am distressed and lost here! I'm dying inside not understanding why I do have this high value on it. He said in past I put him on pedestal, was his biggest fan, worshiped him basically. And I did. What ever he wanted, said, chose to do, I did it gladly, freely no questions. We have been connected at the hip, have done nothing apart. Again, lots more involved here and this area not the place for me to go off track. 

I do love him everyone. Writing these things out is difficult as you truly cannot type the words for everyone to feel or see your emotions the way it should be. 

I do appreciate everyones take and outlook on this. It takes blunt and maybe what appears to be harsh comments to see things you have missed, overlooked, or what ever. I'm trying, we are trying. I feel if we just had sex, 1 or 2 week, H then feels all other things that need 'reparied' go away. He knows this, we spoke of it. And...he agreed that he does feel that way. So...part of me I think that's why I've mentally gotten myself conditioned to not desire. Why I have put a 'value' on it, I guess. Resentment, for making it the 'cure all' when it's not. 

I'm sorry everyone. I never meant to appear callus, uncaring, unloving, or however you may have viewed me with my post. It truly is deeper than that and I'm so lost with it all. It's so compounded with other things and I guess that's truly the root of all this and...I just don't know anymore. 

Thanks for all your advice here. It is helpful (and painful at times)


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It wasn't just "mindless sex" to your husband. He wrote you a note telling you how much he appreciated your selfless gift. He knows it's not easy for you but, because you value him, you made the effort. It was an unselfish act of love, even though it may have felt a little awkward. None of us read minds and husbands are often a little clueless or clumsy, trying to decipher what wives want or think. Writing you a note was probably not the message or the delivery method you were looking for, but, in his mind, he was expressing love and appreciation. What, specifically, are you looking for that he is not providing? Y'all have been together 18 years? It's difficult at times, but you're both apparently doing some things right, too.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Can you say exactly why you feel it is mindless sex. I think you mean as apposed to loving sex? What do you need him to do to make you feel loved during sex?

He can't know what you need him to do if you don't tell him. What do you think about taking the long view? What I mean is decide that this is going to take some time to fix since it took a long ytime to get to this point. Thinking that way, you are not disappointed if something does not work out as expecetd. You can work on different parts of the relationship with incremental chages. 

For instance you had sex with your husband and you both enjoyed it. There was something in it that was missing for you and the way to fix it is not to go backwards and stop having sex (not saying you will do this because you did not say that) but keep having sex frequently and each time work on letting him know what you neeed to feel good. 

Since you don't expect perfection, you don't get disappointed. You know that each problem that comes up, you look for a solution. In time, sex will be satisfying for both of you.


What bothered you about you husbands note? First consider that he was not trying to hurt you by the note. He has no idea how you interpreted the note. He was probably trying to tell you how happy you made him. 

It was a note of appreciation which you could see as a sweet gesture, that's how I would interpret it. One way to look at it is, he is telling you that you made him happy, out of love can you see your way clear to be happy that you did that for him? Now you can tweak things a bit so that you feel good about the love making from an emotional sense not just physical. That's a reasonable next step. 

Please consider not telling him you displeased with the note, he did not mean to upset you and intensions mean more in this case. If you tell him you are displeased he will be very confused because he was trying to tell you that you made him happy I think. 

Can you talk to him in a way that lets him know you are happy that he is happy and you would like to try to do things a little differently so that you feel more connected to him? Then tell him in a way that expresses your feelings and be clear about what you would like next time you have sex. End up the talk by reassuring him of how happy you are that he is happy. That's true isn't it?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Believe me, you do not in any way sound callous or that you do not love your husband. That much is obvious. I don't mean to criticize you or make you feel wrong but I am trying to get you to see how your husband may be seeing things. You sound like a wonderful person, anyone who wants to grow and takes the chance to expose their fears and worries are one in a million. You should feel special. 

You have expressed a sincere desire to make your husband happy and to understand him and yourself. I think you are a gem and you deserve to be happy with your H and in your life.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Absolutely! How I wish my wife would at least try to find solutions. Your husband is lucky that he has a fighter. It's frustrating for you both, but both of you deserve to feel loved and it's a gift worth fighting for. When I talk to the really old couples who've been married forever, seems that the challenges and hard times they endured brought them closer together than their happy, plentiful times.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

:


> Can you say exactly why you feel it is mindless sex.


Honestly have no idea how to explain. What immediately comes to mind is someone who is permiscuous. I do believe it stems from 7 yrs ago. Briefly...we lost our 1st daughter at 40 1/2 wks. I wanted another child, he did not. I felt his life went back to 'normal', I felt alone and had nothing for myself. So, I stopped BC pills. Did not care and actually prepared he would divorce me. It was a long journey during those 9 months BUT we obviously made it. Anyhow...during one of our talks, he made comment he remembers us making love one night and afterwards I cried. He was confused by it. Niether of us honestly remember what was said. But looking back, he feels maybe I knew or felt then, the love we made, was the night I conceived. It was passionate, intimate, like in the movies! Dumb I know. Those moments are different. We BOTH are more into each other. Almost like we are truly mentally connected. It's the eye contact, the kissing is more sensual. Every touch is just very different. Almost like if you could not talk, each touch, eye contact, kiss, every physical thing going on you definately would know what how each feels. Now...we do it more on a what I call as "need to get relaxed" type sex. So sorry if I make no sense!



> It was a note of appreciation which you could see as a sweet gesture, that's how I would interpret it.


Oh, I know and understand his note was a way of letting me know he enjoyed our time, etc. I didn't take it as unappreciative at all. I think I felt it a little odd, that he didn't sense or feel, that we were missing that 'connection' as I tried to explain above. I know men and women are different in this area. I am 40 so I'm not completely clueless to the male sexual drive or ego maybe ?? Don't take that as a jab unbelievable! Just can't find right words. It did make him happy and I know that. Maybe I was more surprised at the fact he is okay with just having a night/session of down right plain ol' sex. Which, why not we are married and we can do what ever we want in the bedroom.



> You sound like a wonderful person, anyone who wants to grow and takes the chance to expose their fears and worries are one in a million. You should feel special.


Thank you! As I'm learning, my love language of quality and affirmation...this comment is definatley an affirmation I needed. I know part of my extreme self-esteem issues play major part in our sexual issues. I realize that. Sometimes I feel it's a terrible quality to have. My counselor always reminded me of my 'self-talk'. I'd have a great feeling or thought, and instead of ending it there, I self talk right into finding a negative or fearfult thought to out wiegh the good one I just had. I personally feel it's a disease and cannot quit it. Like a bad addiction. Guess that is what my wellbutrin is to help? I'm slowly noticing some affect of it. Time will tell I guess.

Thank you everyone for your post and time spent reading mine and responding. It is why I'm hear since financially I cannot go back to counseling right now. So, when I found this place, read around the different post for a while, decided this was the next best thing. Everyones comments and suggestions help alot. Yes, some when first read set ya back a bit. But truth and honesty can do that. Even in face to face counseling we hear things we won't like.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Do you not see that by setting the expectation that every time you have sex that you should have that 'magical connection' that you are diminishing your relationship? You are by default, putting a very negative spin on an event that should be nothing but a positive, regardless of whether there are fireworks or not. This is what I meant by putting to high a 'value' on having sex.

Here's an easier analogy: You can't expect to hit a home run every time you step up to the plate in baseball. The home run gets all the hoopla, but getting on base regardless of the means is what wins the game.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Do you not see that by setting the expectation that every time you have sex that you should have that 'magical connection' that you are diminishing your relationship? You are by default, putting a very negative spin on an event that should be nothing but a positive, regardless of whether there are fireworks or not. This is what I meant by putting to high a 'value' on having sex.
> 
> Here's an easier analogy: You can't expect to hit a home run every time you step up to the plate in baseball. The home run gets all the hoopla, but getting on base regardless of the means is what wins the game.


Thanks Deejo. The finaly analogy is pretty self explanorty. I guess I never viewed the 'magical conncetion' as being negative. Probably because that is the way it always seemed for many years. I know it never last and things need constantly worked on and changed up to keep that going. No clue why it truly affects me so much, but I'm trying.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Emotional when you mention the loss of the child, bells went off in my head. Let me see if I have this right-1) you wanted a child your husband did not 2) you stopped BC and the resulting child was lost 3) you felt deeply effected and you felt your husband was not as deeply effected 3) you do not have children??? Is that right? How long ago did this take place and did the feelings of the lack of connection with your H start around that time? Did you ever explore with your therapist that these events may be connected? 

Why is your self esteem low?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay here it is. When you've been married a while, sometimes sex feels sort of ... it's not boring, but it's not "HOLY SMOKE!" thrilling either. This isn't because your partner is bad at sex or you are, but because mathematically you've been together several times!

When you two first got together, it was breathtaking almost every time because a) you weren't "used to" each other yet and discovered something new every now and then, and b) mathematically you hadn't had sex that often...not to mention that there weren't the distractions of children, etc. 

Think of it like cooking dinner every night. You can't really SKIP making dinner or eating something or eventually you'd die! But some meals are his favorite or very special menus prepared for hours and served on fine china with candles...some are a really tasty chicken casserole with corn (yummy but not fancy)...and still others are hot dogs and pork-n-beans! LOL 

What YOU have been doing is basically this: "It used to be prepared for hours and served on fine china with candles every time. I miss those days, so I'm not going to eat unless it's prepared for hours and served on fine china with candles." Meanwhile there is a time and a place for tasty casserole...and even the occasional time and place for hot dogs!! LOL The point is that the soul is nourished.

I have some friends who are bloggers who recently did a "7 Days of Sex Challenge." It's over now, but the gist of the challenge was to make an agreement with your spouse to make love every single day for 7 days. The GOAL is to show your spouse that you make him/her a priority, to break out of routines, to take your intimacy to a new level--not just physically but also emotionally as you learn new things about yourself through the challenge and share them together. Just do it 7 days straight...no excuses! And you will be blown away at what you learn.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I agree. Sex can be about all kinds of things. Some times it's playful, sometimes seriously romantic, sometimes a little stress relief, and yeah, sometimes it can be just out of compassion or a sense of commitment to your partner. I have been pondering exactly the same analogy....eating. It doesn't always have to be a carefully planned gourmet feast, but the body and the spirit need nourishment. Your partner need to eat whether you feel 100% or not. They need to eat whether you have financial problems or stress at work or not. They can't wait for all our stars to perfectly allign, for our bodies, our hearts, and our emotions to all reach optimum performance. If you don't have a gourmet meal in you, you can still kick out a couple sandwiches. Married folks, in a sense, really do become one person. You can't starve or neglect just half of your body. Strengthening your spouse strengthens yourself.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Emotional when you mention the loss of the child, bells went off in my head. Let me see if I have this right-1) you wanted a child your husband did not 2) you stopped BC and the resulting child was lost 3) you felt deeply effected and you felt your husband was not as deeply effected 3) you do not have children??? Is that right? How long ago did this take place and did the feelings of the lack of connection with your H start around that time? Did you ever explore with your therapist that these events may be connected?
> 
> Why is your self esteem low?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Situation I wanted to marry, he did not due to our ages and b/c did not want children. He has son from previous marriage born with physical problems and wasn't to make it. He's now late 20's very smart and well. So...I did get pg completely by fluke and that babygirl we lossed. Year later is when the above happend and she's perfect and turning 7. H and I just spoke of this last night. I told him 7 years ago, I obviously did not respect him, his feelings and was completely prepaired that when I knew I was pg a 2nd time, the potention of a divorce was there. I felt alone in my marriage, that I had nothing for me, who was I beside his wife. So, I took matters into my own hands (wrong way I know) to seek my own happiness. Yes I did therapy for while. H would not go said he didnt' need. I went for about 2 months or so. My therapist was pg whole time which I didn't know until one day I go in and she liked popped out over night! I was devestated. She knew what I went through knew I wanted a child more than anything..obviously more than my mairriage and she NEVER once told me she was pg or asked if I would have problem she was. I walked out. She called me few days later said when they assigned me to her she questionned it as she knew that would be difficult. They told her didn't matter it would be 'good' for me. Never went back or found another.

Self-esteem..no clue. I think it's a combination of the sesspool in my head. Weight gain. Want to be 'perfect' I know is wrong. Want to feel sexy and don't. Refuse to wear lingerie, rarely even let H see me fully naked. Afraid he'll actually 'see' my rolls, my spare tire :rofl: my cellulet legs and butt. Even though we have been together 18 yrs. We all change I know. He hasn't. He's same size since we met when he was 32. Sickening! It's a personal issue that needs major work I know. I'm trying.


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Unbelievable and AC...Your killng me!!! :rofl:

Food is what got me my big A** from depression!!! HAHA...teasing. Well, sort or. Serioulsy, I do undertand the analogy and truly appreciate the lehmans terms. It does make sense and I will but the 'meals' in deep thought process. 

Thank you everyone. l thinks this is the first post I've actually felt I can take something away from and work with. No offense to others, it just seems different.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You sound so much better than in your first post. You seem to have found help that is tailored for you - I wish you the very best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

Perspective is the key here. You have to love yourself, FORGIVE yourself, and be yourself. It is easy to get hung up on image, expectations and let your focus be on the negative.

Start with the small things. Notice the beauty in the simple little things that you often miss, the color of your eyes (they are truly unique, like a fingerprint), the fact that your husband is willing to meet your emotional needs and all the sweet and simple things you do for each other.

Focus on all the positive things and let the negative fade away. It will take some practice, but you can do it, I have faith in you.

Forgive yourself for not being as "into" it as you think you should, instead thank yourself for taking initiative and doing more for your H and your relationship.

Forgive both of you for imperfections. We all have them and they are often cute when we are first together and then can become an annoyance. It is all in our perception of them. It is our choice how we see things.

Take a rose bush for example. Many will see all the lovely flowers, wonderful colors and the scent. Others will focus on the thorns, scratchy and painful when you come into contact with them. It is your choice and your choice alone to decide which you will focus on.

Beating yourself up is not going to help the situation at all, so change how you look at it, focus on being thankful for what you are doing, even if it is just thinking about doing something. Before you know it, you will be doing it more and more.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm sorry if what I post here has been mentioned before but these are my thoughts.

First of all I don't know your age but many women suffer a precipitous drop in sex drive during premenopause and menopause. Look here: Official Web Site of John R. Lee, M.D.

If you are age 30-50 I would suggest very strongly that you read _What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About PREmenopause_ By Dr. Lee. You also may want to read _What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause_ and some of Dr. Lee's other books. These helped my wife tremendously.

Second you need to understand that to a man sex = love. In his mind when you don't have sex with him you don't love him. It's not a conscious thought but that is what he feels whether he wants to or not. You NEED to have sex with him and you NEED to stop focusing on why you don't feel like it or that it feels fake to YOU. If he is trying to fulfill your needs and you aren't trying to fulfill his needs because of how it makes YOU feel that is extremely selfish behavior.

Lastly I would suggest strongly that you have your husband go to this website Married Man Sex Life

Women like to think that a man providing for their needs is all cuddling and nurturing. If he is spending quality time with you that reinforces comfort but it DOES NOT make him attractive to you. He needs to start exhibiting the behavior that women really need in their man but have been conditioned by society to eschew in men's behavior. Men needs to demonstrate traits that both comfort *and* attract their wives. Dr. Harley is great at explaining the comfort side of this but he really doesn't get into the other part very well. Athol Kay does and your husband should really read his books so that he can provide *all* of what you need.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

OP hasn't been back in over a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> OP hasn't been back in over a year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Duh, thanks for pointing that out pidge. I didn't even look. :banghead:


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I saw it was an old thread, but I still love the way 'unbelievable' describes how it makes a man feel when his wife doesn't desire him.

Wish I could get my wife to read this thread.


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## DreamWeaver (Aug 20, 2011)

Deejo said:


> That right there is the problem. You clearly state how you 'value' sex. But you're kidding yourself. You don't feel those things by your own admission, but you choose not to reduce the value either. A hand job, blow job, co masturbating, a playful strip-tease. None of those things cost a great deal in terms of an investment in intimacy - but could easily lead you there. But you won't do it if you don't feel it. Vicious cycle.
> 
> Although part of it is your husband's fault as well. He needs to flat out tell you what his expectations are, because he is busy trying to send out the right signals without sounding like a horn-dog - and then he gets frustrated when you don't pick up the queues.* He fully expected you to come onto him in the scenario you outlined. When he rolled over to sleep? That was your last and biggest invitation to demonstrate to him that you were more invested in how HE felt, rather than watching a movie. I'm not saying your wrong - I'm just telling you, you missed it.*
> I know this story. We didn't make it. And yes it is sad - especially when you're on the train and can clearly see the end of the line, but still can't, or won't do anything to keep it from crashing off the rails.


Deejo is right, your husband was sending you signals that he wanted you to come on to him. You said he was laying there with hands over his head and you took that to be a "don't touch me signal". Just the opposite I think, he was leaving himself vulnerable to your advances...it was an invitation for you to touch him. Turning his back to you he was signalling his frustration that you ignored the invitation and once his frustration reached the limit for him he got up and went to the recliner...of sorts to punish you for not responding to him.


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## DreamWeaver (Aug 20, 2011)

Shoot...just found out how old this thread is. I guess no advice is needed but I take away something from every thread so its not all wasted time


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