# Lack of Emotion/Passion/Feedback



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Short background: Wife and I are 40ish, 2 kids. Essentially sexless marriage for about 6 years. I have been trying to man up and more importantly, had a bit of a spiritual awakening, and am trying to enact change in our M. I do love my wife but she is very self-focused and does not easily "feel" what her words/actions do to others. 

Anyway, I have really pulled back sexually (It is difficult for me to allow myself to be attracted to her sexually or enthused about sex with her based on our history), but realized this is just causing further harm - I am doing to her what she saw fit to do to me - withhold. So last night, I found my courage and decided to initiate.

I made it pretty much entirely about her as a way to try to re-boot. I was assertive about my intent, but not aggressive. She just laid there, unmoving and not making a sound the entire time. When she reached her climax, she made a slight noise and her head rocked for a couple seconds. She asked if she could reciprocate, and I said I wanted her to enjoy the feeling for now. She rolled over and was asleep in minutes.

I was a bit stunned... I don't know what I expected, but just something. She's been begging me to kickstart us for a few weeks now... and when I finally do - ZERO feedback. I just let my disappointment go. I went to bed unsatisfied and completely unsure whether she endured that or enjoyed it.

This morning, we woke up and she was discussing the kids and how she wants to re-do our deck. Rather than carry it around all day, I finally asked her, did she have fun last night. What I got was something that I can best equate to a review you might find on a clothing store web site.... "Overall it was pretty good, I liked xxx and yyy, but could have done without zzz and aaa. I appreciate you giving me an orgasm." And then back to the kids.

I tried one more take, and mentioned that maybe she could give me feedback during the event. "If I knew you didn't like it, I wouldn't have spent all the energy doing it. I could have done something else." Her: "So if I have criticisms I should tell you at the time?" Me: "How about telling me the GOOD things? Make some noise, or tell me in some way instead of laying there silently. I would rather chase the good noises than hear your complaints during sex." Her: "I will try to do that but it's really not me." (Which is true, as the years have gone on, she seems to just withdraw into herself more and more during sex.)

If it weren't for the fact that she insists she is attracted to me and wants me to keep going, I would assume she is not attracted to me and just move on. I wish I knew how to change this dynamic because I feel like I keep putting myself out there and taking nothing away from it. I *need* to feel something more than that to keep trying at this.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Many men make the mistake of thinking that the key to making a wife feel more sexually interested is to give her good sex and good orgasms. But, "making it about her", is really all about your need for sex (i.e. make it great for her so you will have a great willing highly sexual partner).

Rather than ask her to give you more feedback, it's better to point out that if there is something she likes or dislikes about sex, that you will not be offended to get some feedback from her during the act. But then walk around with the assumption that if she's not giving you this feedback then she likes it.

If you are doing well as a husband and meeting her needs at a high level, it is perfectly within your rights to define what you need from her in terms of sexual fulfillment (quantity, responsiveness). If you fear that when you say you need A, B, C that she will say she wants D (divorce), then you have not done your job of meeting her needs.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I do appreciate the advice about assuming she's satisfied with the act. That makes more sense, although if I did assume that, I would have been wrong in this case. I always assume the negative because of her inability to communicate these things to me without prompting.

Also, I derive a lot of pleasure out of trying to please her and I do not know why it is so hard for her to express this pleasure in a way I can hear and easily appreciate when I hit the mark. I am trying not to take this personally, but it feels like she is intentionally trying to deny me this feeling... and I don't know why.

Her unemotional nature and her stoic exterior are fine 99% of the time but it feels like we are basically just masturbating each other... there is no emotion, no connection, nothing. At least, nothing she is willing to share. I'm not sure I can spend my life deprived of that.

She, of course, thinks everything is good with what happened. Thus, the disconnect. I am continuing to try to meet her needs but at what point does this start to become her not meeting mine...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I do appreciate the advice about assuming she's satisfied with the act. That makes more sense, although if I did assume that, I would have been wrong in this case. I always assume the negative because of her inability to communicate these things to me without prompting.


And what result did you get now that you know she liked or didn't like certain things last night? Do you think it makes her feel more sexual toward you going forward? The idea is you tell her how you want to be communicated to, how you want to be treated, and what the results will be if she follows your instructions. 



Acorn said:


> She, of course, thinks everything is good with what happened. Thus, the disconnect. I am continuing to try to meet her needs but at what point does this start to become her not meeting mine...


She already is not meeting your needs. Talk to her about your needs. 

Rather than having any discussion where you are drawing her out to talk about what was good or bad about a sexual encounter, you should be having a discussion where you tell her that you have a need for sexual fulfillment, and how you define that. In other words you tell her that it's way more fulfilling to you when she expresses passion during the sexual act.

Tell her what it is you want, while you meet her needs very well, and set the expectation that she will meet your needs.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Has your wife ever been very vocal during sex? Some people just aren't, and there isn't anything wrong with them. 

I know that I tend to be more quiet, and it isn't because I lack passion for my H or what we are doing, it's just because I am concentrating and trying to shut out all other distractions from my mind.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

No, she has never been very vocal.

Last night, we took turns trying to make each other happy. I spent a good amount of time with her in silence, and then after five or so minutes of it being my turn, she stops and says, "You are clearly not into this, are you?" (Keeping in mind that I give much more feedback then her and I was very happy with the way things were going.) Her tone and choice of words were a total mood breaker - just seemed like she didn't want to be there.

Maybe I am just sensing this and trying to "prove" it through "evidence". I dunno. Doesn't really bode well for us.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Acorn - in our pre-children days when my wife and I had sex more than 3-4 times a year, she wasn't very responsive. 
All I had to go on that she was enjoying what I was doing to her was because she didnt actually stop me doing it. No groans, no 'yes, yes' etc.

From your last post it seems that your wife wouldn't be in the slightest bit bothered if she never had sex again. Its a chore...she loves you, your children, the life you share but just not the sex. 
Its like her saying, 'I don't liek meat, I don't need meat, I get all I need from vegatables...so, thats it. No meat'.

The fact that YOU like and need 'meat' doesnt even enter the equation.

I wish that people on here would just accept the fact that there are wives out there (as there are husbands, just fewer of them) who are perfectly healthy people but for whom sex is simply not important or an integeral part of marriage.
It simply doesnt matter. They love their partners etc just won't 'do' the sex bit. Period.

Now, I need to go and arrest afew more rioters/looters!!!


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I hear ya but the thing that is odd about my wife is that when I lowered the temp and just didn't show interest in sex (and even turned her down a little), you'd think the world is going to end... "I can't live like this...", "I *need* sex...", etc.

She tells me I'm the best she's ever had and based on her willingness to be blunt about my faults, I believe her about this.

So she needs sex, she thinks I'm the man for the job, but anytime I ask for anything more than the once per month she's looking for, I'm an addict, I want it too much, we just did it last week, etc.

I asked her, do I meet your needs? She said, "You are perfect. I couldn't ask for more." I tell her about my needs, and she starts in with the, "If I'm not good enough for you, just leave." 

I am coming around to the fact that she is just not very emotionally invested in us. She badly wants it to work, but she is not willing to put in any "real" work.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I asked her, do I meet your needs? She said, "You are perfect. I couldn't ask for more." I tell her about my needs, and she starts in with the, "If I'm not good enough for you, just leave."


This is very important. The first thing you have to decide is what is your definition of marriage. For me, the definition is we both TRY OUR BEST to meet the needs of the other. 

If this is your definition of marriage, and you are willing to meet her needs, and she is not willing to meet your needs, I humbly suggest that to your own definition that your wife is choosing not to participate in your marriage. If she makes that choice, you should consider inviting her to leave it, in line with the choice she is making.

But, the first thing you have to do before this ultimate step is to make sure that she understands and agrees that the definition of a marriage is both partners getting their needs met through the best abilities of the other partner. Then you have to show her and tell her that YOU meeting her need involves thought, effort, emotion and work on your part. You then have to elevate sexual fulfillment as every bit as important of an emotional need as anything she has (i.e. away from the pervert discussion). You then have to tell her you don't expect perfection but you do require demonstrated effort.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes that was what finally cinched it for me. Whatever I did, a lot a little, she still did nothing and never reciprocated in anyway nor felt the least bit obliged to so much as discuss it or worry about it. I ran out of patience or tolerance for having to dance with a emotionally stunted lunatic who's psychological development apparently stopped mid puberty. And she thinks Sleeping Beauty is a documentary.

Sex for my wife is worse than a chore. Chores get done around here. If sex was like doing the laundry it would at least happen sometimes albeit done half assed and left on the floor for someone to finish. It's not even that. So I told her one day, since I have to do 100% of the work 100% of the time for the joy of being turned down 95% of the time and serviced by a dead girl the other 5% of the time, since you've made it entirely my problem, I'm dealing with it my way. No more, I'm finished with it forever. Feel free to take your complaints up with your union rep. And to that, she has never uttered a single comment, question or worry. Never. We haven't so much as held hands or bussed on the cheek in nearly 20 years. 

Maybe that sounds draconian to some but the way I see it, if you're going to screw around and play games like you're 13 years old, if you're going to pout and withhold and make a big childish show about how it's my fault as you storm out of the room or stare blankly like you've never heard English before, then that's what happens. In the final analysis, if you're a vicious control freak I can guarantee you I will make your life suck simply by giving in to you and giving you all the control you desire because in reality that's the last thing you want.

But to your question, is there a lack of emotion? No. There's simply an agenda that's utterly different from mine or from what most people would conceive as being a normal mature marriage of adults. I am sure she's very passionate about that.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

jackpercy57 said:


> Also, I derive a lot of pleasure out of trying to please her and I do not know why it is so hard for her to express this pleasure in a way I can hear and easily appreciate when I hit the mark. I am trying not to take this personally, but it feels like she is intentionally trying to deny me this feeling... and I don't know why.


After much reading I'm really unsure if anything can be changed. There are few must have sex woman out there, but read the forums look at the stats its really rare. Your desire to wholly satisfy your wife is normal one... that's what most guys try to do. Many guys like you need that validation how was it, what did you like, it makes us feel good like we achieved something ....climbed the mountain so to speak. In my experience women just don't see sex this way and you may never get the response you are looking for. I'm going through much the same thing.....while my wife is into it, rarely turns me down, I'm tired of being the aggressor. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being appeased instead of wanted sexually. It's a pretty crappy place to be in....good luck currently I'm just focusing on me and the kids and well see what happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> After much reading I'm really unsure if anything can be changed. There are few must have sex woman out there, but read the forums look at the stats its really rare. Your desire to wholly satisfy your wife is normal one... that's what most guys try to do. Many guys like you need that validation how was it, what did you like, it makes us feel good like we achieved something ....climbed the mountain so to speak. In my experience women just don't see sex this way and you may never get the response you are looking for. I'm going through much the same thing.....while my wife is into it, rarely turns me down, I'm tired of being the aggressor. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being appeased instead of wanted sexually. It's a pretty crappy place to be in....good luck currently I'm just focusing on me and the kids and well see what happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Felt compelled to respond to this post, even though I think the issue specified here by OhGeesh (wife not initiating, but is responsive) is slightly different than Acorns (wife not very responsive.)

Well, I am a wife, and I can relate to your wives. You gentlemen do realize that hormonally a woman just doesn't have the kind of testosterone in their body like you blokes do so that constant desire is just not always right at the top of a woman's mind like it might be for a man, right? Therefore, you need to learn how to work with that to your advantage. Oh, yeah, and as my H would say it does take some work and effort to keep it going with your wife, but when you do, the rewards are great.

And, you do realize that a woman's sexual response cycle is often different than a man's? Go out and do some reading on "Rosemary Basson" and you will begin to see and understand how different men and women can be. You need to learn how to work with that too.

Desire In Women: Does It Lead To Sex? Or Result From It? | Psychology Today

Clinical Fact Sheets: Female Sexual Response

So, do you ever think that maybe, just maybe, your wife is loving you passionately in the way that SHE can for where she's at right now? Why do you reject that as being not worthy simply because it doesn't follow the model that you want it to follow?

I, myself, do not like to initiate very often. And when I do, it is usually a lot 'tamer'. But, my H doesn't fret over it anymore. He finally figured out that I do love him, I do respect him, I don't deny him, and it has actually helped BOTH of us grow together immensely. He has learned how to work the system, and the floodgates are beginning to open. 

I do think that women are more biologically 'wired' to be responders and receptors much more than being initiators. Although, as a woman, I can vouch that if you can get over whatever insecurities you have, and you feel that your husband genuinely loves you, respects you, and desires you above all others - sometimes that initiation becomes very possible and easy.

So, as a man, why do you not revel in your initiation? Why do you not tempt, tease, and seduce? Why do you feel so down just because she did not initiate? Keep after her - chase her down - let her feel your desire. Buck up, men. Just initiate and saturate her with your love and desire and see where it takes you. Don't let your own insecurities and unrequited wants get you down and cause your love life to spiral downward. Build each other up!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Acorn- I know you are not happy with the quality of sex. Please take what I say in the spirit in which it is meant. I see a couple of things that you are doing that mitigate against forming a better sexual connection to your wife I think and I want to share what I think. 

First of all the wonderful things you are doing: you put yourself and your esteem on the line to approach your wife after a long dry spell. You are obviously an above average excellent lover. You are having sex with your wife, she offered to take care of you. 

The not so good things: you criticized her, you acted dissatisfied, you rejected her offer to take care of you and you want her to be someone she is not. I am not saying you have to settle but I think you have to reframe the way you view sex with your wife. The person she is will likely not change, it seems to be her personality and that does not change with out motivation and hard work. 

I think you should be more appreciative of making love with her and tell her that you are happy to reconnect with her. Tell her that it makes you feel closer to her. Only positive. Then you can slowly build on the progress you have made. if she feels accepted she may give you more of what you want but if act angry critical and unhappy, she may not want to put any effort in because you really have no right to weigh her sexual performance against some standard. It''s probably better to be in the moment with the woman you are with relax be patient and enjoy. It is unfair to grade her performance against some imagined woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Acorn- I know you are not happy with the quality of sex. Please take what I say in the spirit in which it is meant. I see a couple of things that you are doing that mitigate against forming a better sexual connection to your wife I think and I want to share what I think.
> 
> First of all the wonderful things you are doing: you put yourself and your esteem on the line to approach your wife after a long dry spell. You are obviously an above average excellent lover. You are having sex with your wife, she offered to take care of you.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

And nothing makes a woman feel worse and not like making love than to feel like her H is unappreciative, critical, dissatisfied, and unhappy with her. That is a sure-fire desire killer.

I am a strong proponent in these situations of the man taking charge. Take charge, take the initiative, show your wife your desire, show her your gratitude, show her your happiness. If you can build up this kind of positive, trusting environment with your wife, then you may be very surprised where it can lead you and what she may be willing to do.  A really good book that I have read that describes this kind of journey is "Passionate Marriage" by Schnarch. It's worth a read. Amazon.com: Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships (9780393334272): David Schnarch: Books


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> This is very important. The first thing you have to decide is what is your definition of marriage. For me, the definition is we both TRY OUR BEST to meet the needs of the other.


You know this is really interesting because we had a marriage counseling session and this question was asked by the MC to both of us...

My answer: A loving partnership between two people who give all they can to satisfy their partners wants and needs, knowing that their needs and wants are looked at with as much enthusiasm by their partner.

Hers: A relationship between two people who love each other unconditionally and accept each other for who they are.

I think I used to believe in her definition until I started to think I was getting the short end of the stick more often than not.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Acorn- I know you are not happy with the quality of sex. Please take what I say in the spirit in which it is meant. I see a couple of things that you are doing that mitigate against forming a better sexual connection to your wife I think and I want to share what I think.
> 
> First of all the wonderful things you are doing: you put yourself and your esteem on the line to approach your wife after a long dry spell. You are obviously an above average excellent lover. You are having sex with your wife, she offered to take care of you.
> 
> ...


Catherine, thank you, this does make a lot of sense.

There are a lot of things in our marriage which are very unbalanced (in my wife's favor) and a lot of that is my own fault. I have been trying very hard to "man up" and get things back into a range that is acceptable. Maybe, though, I'm pushing too hard in this area which is probably the most sensitive out of anything. I'll ease off for a while and see how it goes. Thanks.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I


Enchantment said:


> Felt compelled to respond to this post, even though I think the issue specified here by OhGeesh (wife not initiating, but is responsive) is slightly different than Acorns (wife not very responsive.)
> 
> Well, I am a wife, and I can relate to your wives. You gentlemen do realize that hormonally a woman just doesn't have the kind of testosterone in their body like you blokes do so that constant desire is just not always right at the top of a woman's mind like it might be for a man, right? Therefore, you need to learn how to work with that to your advantage. Oh, yeah, and as my H would say it does take some work and effort to keep it going with your wife, but when you do, the rewards are great.
> 
> ...


She is definitely loving me the way she knows how and in a way that is natural for her. We talk all the time so I know where she stands and the conversations almost always lead to I love you'd and sex. 

No matter how much I understand her or she understands me........that won't cause her to naturally become a virile sexually assertive person. That was my point on there isn't much you can assuming there is no underlying cause. 

Remember when you were 18-22 ish and there was car sex, random blow jobs, just that forcefullness. That is what is missing so guys like me think about pleasing our women all day its like a consuming fire at times.......but when your partner rarely makes a move it can start to feel one sided. 

I'm lucky and feel blessed but this has weighed more on me now then any other time in recent memory.
P_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Acorn can I suggest that you post in the Men's Clubhouse. There are some guys there that can guide and encourage you on your journal to reclaim your man card. If you were brave enough to do the most difficult thing initiate sex then I think the rest will be a peice of cake. 

You just need some coaching because it is more complicated. I am certain when you fix the other areas, you will see changes your sex life as well. For most women the man's attitude is tied to her level of desire and enthusiasm for sex. So don't get discouraged. 

I hope you don't mean that you are going to back off from initiating don't do that. Just change your attitude be patient it will all come together but not right away. It may take months but you will see changes incrementally. I just wanted to clear up something suggested about being appreciative. 

Never thank her or make her think that she is giving you something. The way I see it, sex is a natural expression of love affection and fun that you are both enjoying. She is getting as much out of it as you. What I meant was to be happy with her and let her know how you feel about her and you think she is special without a hint of gratefulness. 

I really think you have one of the best chances for recovery as I have seen so far on TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Acorn said:


> You know this is really interesting because we had a marriage counseling session and this question was asked by the MC to both of us...
> 
> My answer: A loving partnership between two people who give all they can to satisfy their partners wants and needs, knowing that their needs and wants are looked at with as much enthusiasm by their partner.
> 
> ...


That's funny in your reply you can see your needs aren't being met so your answer is to do more, fulfill, and be enthusiastic about it.

Hers was the exact opposite to love and accept each other for who they are.....because her needs were being meet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Acorn
Just another pov. Maybe she wants you to be more domineering aggressive. What would happen if you told her what to do instead of asking her?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> My answer: A loving partnership between two people who give all they can to satisfy their partners wants and needs, knowing that their needs and wants are looked at with as much enthusiasm by their partner.
> 
> Hers: A relationship between two people who love each other unconditionally and accept each other for who they are.


You do have to make her feel loved for who she is as a person. Make her feel special and happy that she was chosen by you. But you also have to hold her accountable to meeting your needs. In other words, you do have to demonstrate that you lover her uequovcally, through actions. Your love must be strongly felt by her and not be expecting sex. Your love for her is not contingent on getting sex. But, while you love her unequivocally, you must portray that you cannot accept a one sided marriage. But she has to feel the love from you so strong, that she is not saying "if you odn't like it the way it is, just leave"... She has to be motivated to keep you.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Hicks said:


> You do have to make her feel loved for who she is as a person. Make her feel special and happy that she was chosen by you. But you also have to hold her accountable to meeting your needs. In other words, you do have to demonstrate that you lover her uequovcally, through actions. Your love must be strongly felt by her and not be expecting sex. Your love for her is not contingent on getting sex. But, while you love her unequivocally, you must portray that you cannot accept a one sided marriage. But she has to feel the love from you so strong, that she is not saying "if you odn't like it the way it is, just leave"... She has to be motivated to keep you.


Yeah that's true, but that's not the problem. The issue is feeling wanted feeling sexually wanted. There are many threads touching on this..........many of "us" get regular sex and it's good too, but we are always inititating. 

It feels good to feel wanted and that's what is missing? Remember dating when your GF would be "Oh he is so cute?" "I just want to be by you" and then all of the sporadic "loving" you would get.

If you had a friend that never called you and you always had to call them.......and then at times that friend didn't seem as excited to hang out with you as you did.......and one day you stopped calling and guess what they didn't call you either!! 

Wouldn't you feel like they didn't really enjoy being your friend?

That simple analogy is the same here......guys like to be wowed too, we like to be told how good it was, seduced, etc. We like to feel similar things that you just explained too.

Again, I can't complain, but I do feel that at times even if it's to a lesser degree than many.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BTW - I think your wife is confused about relationships between adults. Unconditional love is confined to very few relationships. A parent to a child, a child to an elderly infirm parent and a severely impaired adult. 

Adult relationships are totally different. It is based on an exchange of satisfactions. You have to get affirmation, love and friendship etc. from other adults. They are looking for the same from you. The nature of the needs differs for each individual so you have to find out what needs are and then try to meet them. If your therapist does not adress this at some point then you should bring it up. 

I'd like to address your feeling that she is a selfish person. Are you sure? From what you describe, many of your critical needs are not being met and I have little doubt that some of her needs are also not being met. I answered one of your post on another thread. I now understand why you said that if a man's income supports the household and therefore his needs his sexual needs should be met. I understand why you feel that way. But I believe thinking that way is counterproduction. 

I understand now (i did not before), that A man's burden to support his wife and kids is not easy. If you are not being appreciated and respected and not being loved by intimacy, then I can understand why you feel as you do . 

However, I think that you can not look at sex as quid pro quo. A for providing for your family. Certainly your needs should be met if you are doing your part. However, if some of her criticle needs are not being met then the lack of exchange goes both ways. I dont mean you need more chores .

I mean she needs you to be a confident, self assured land the eader in the family. She needs you not to back down from her and she needs you to satisfy her needs to the best of your ability. 

. I don't if anyone suggested reading "His Needs, Her Needs". The author used this analogy - each person has a bank that needs to be replenished by their partner. credits are lost by some attitudes like criticism for sexual performence or lack of appreciation for family support to name a few. Nice concept.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

I have read the posts since my last input. I agree with some and not others. 

All I will say is that marriage is a 'package'. When you say 'I do' it encompasses everything that marriage is. 
There might be parts of 'marriage' that you don't like doing quite so much...but you have to make the effort..its part of the deal. 

If one partner is HD and wants it 3 times a week (which, lets face it isnt exactly in addict territory) and the LD partner is happy with once a month then because you are M A R R I E D both need to reach a compromise...BOTH (yes, even the wife) have to make the effort. The HD partner 'tone down' and the LD partner 'tone up'.

One poster pointed out that womens testosterone levels aren't as high as mens... Our oestrogen levels are lower than yours, we have to accept 'your' monthly 'hormone imbalances' and associated mood changes, likewise you have to accept that we are (generally!) more sexually charged than you are. Its called mutual understanding.

If a husband wants sex more often than his wife/partner does we get accused of being sex maniacs. Even if its us wanting it more than once a month.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> It feels good to feel wanted and that's what is missing? Remember dating when your GF would be "Oh he is so cute?" "I just want to be by you" and then all of the sporadic "loving" you would get.
> 
> That simple analogy is the same here......guys like to be wowed too, we like to be told how good it was, seduced, etc. We like to feel similar things that you just explained too.


The question is, why did your wife behave a certain way when she was your girlfriend, and does not behave that way now that she is your wife? What were you doing differently back then that you are not doing today? How was the situation different back then? It basically involves how you were making her feel back then, as well as her desire to keep you with her and not leaving her to find someone else. That's why even in marriage you have to make your wife feel loved, special. You have to make her life fun and happy. You have to make here aware that if she does not do A, B, C, then you are willing to leave.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Hicks said:


> The question is, why did your wife behave a certain way when she was your girlfriend, and does not behave that way now that she is your wife? What were you doing differently back then that you are not doing today? How was the situation different back then? It basically involves how you were making her feel back then, as well as her desire to keep you with her and not leaving her to find someone else. That's why even in marriage you have to make your wife feel loved, special. You have to make her life fun and happy. You have to make here aware that if she does not do A, B, C, then you are willing to leave.


It's easy to use deductive reasoning and come up with that......what changed? Besides aging we r closer now than ever...... What is different is being together for 20 yrs with 4 kids!! 

I'll let you know when I figure it out........lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

@Catherine - Thank you for your thoughts about everything, I very much appreciate it. I come from an emotionally abusive childhood so I recognize (at long last) that I have a lot of growing up and understanding to do about some things that everyone else takes for granted. This is why I decided to start posting and answering people, right or wrong, so I can learn. I think my wife and I both met at a vulnerable time and have both been emotionally unavailable for many years. It's only the last few years, once I found my way out of the shell, that I'm feeling and experiencing life and finding myself next to someone that is seemingly unable of sharing it with me in an enthusiastic manner - it is very difficult.

I can tell you the following things about my wife: She has told me again and again that this last year or so I've met her needs like never before and she wouldn't change a thing. I do think there are more things I could be doing, but I can't get her to even hint at them - she is conflict avoidant and will not risk confrontation, so I only get input when I run into her next trait... I do agree that she wants me to be a leader, but she has some serious control issues and when I request a change, such as taking ownership of the finances every other month, or making decisions about which electrician to hire or whatever, she is extremely resistant. Assertively taking over does not work - I have to be so aggressive to overcome her control issues that the process becomes negative, not the intended "manly" leadership I hope for. Believe it or not, it is much easier for me to assert myself for sex than it is to assert myself and conduct a minor home repair without her input. Sounds backwards from everyone else around here, but it is what it is.

And one other random anecdote - my real journey started one day when I unexpectedly developed a crush on someone. I was a different person then - very co-dependent - and I immediately went to my wife and told her I was worried about falling for the new woman. I requested that we have an "emergency date night" and make a point to spend a lot of time together over the next few weeks to help me get the gal out of my head. We went to a diner for lunch - she really thought that fixed the problem, and did not understand why she should change her schedule around to help me protect our marriage from this unintended "threat". We didn't have a date night again for over a month. Nothing ever became of the crush as I handled it on my own, but ever since then, I have found myself questioning what our relationship is to her - and even though the marriage might not make it, I really needed to go on this path and grow up.

Finally, all that being said, I still think that there has to be some expectation of sexual satisfaction for spouses in a marriage. I don't think that just because I married someone, she has to become my sexual plaything on my every whim. But if my #1 need is sexual satisfaction in a relationship, and hers is domestic and financial support... it is (IMO) very self-serving to justify taking sex off the table and expecting her needs to continue to be met. Perhaps time will shake the bitterness of my wife's withdrawal and I can be more enlightened but on some basic level, I believe that imposing a sexless marriage on a spouse and not being strong enough to leave and provide for yourself is cake-eating in the same manner that taking on a lover while a wife tends to childcare and cooks and cleans is.

Sorry for the long post. I am continuing to try to understand and any thoughts you have - including harsh and brutal ones! - are appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to post.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> That's funny in your reply you can see your needs aren't being met so your answer is to do more, fulfill, and be enthusiastic about it.
> 
> Hers was the exact opposite to love and accept each other for who they are.....because her needs were being meet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My IC keeps saying something like this too.

She keeps saying, work on yourself. I understand the principle of that, but the more I work on myself, the less I find myself needing her, wanting to deal with the control issues, and being attracted to her.

Probably because my needs aren't being met, and if only I could help her understand I need her- 

And then I realize in two paragraphs I've stopped working on myself. Can't figure out the missing piece.


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