# 25th anniversary separate trip



## WorkingOnMe

Last weekend we had a nice little getaway. We took a couple ferries and went to the San Juan islands to a bed and breakfast, toured around on the motorcycle and had a great time. Just a Mother's Day weekend trip. When we got back, I had to run an errand. While I was gone I received a text from my wife. My wife has been wanting to go to Hawaii with her girlfriend who recently bought a condo there. I'm fine with that. She's gone on a separate vacation several times over the years and I don't have an issue with that. I do my own thing sometimes too. 

Anyway, this text said that her friend can only get away from the 25th of August to September 2nd. So, she's going to Hawaii. Our 25th anniversary is on the 29th. I'm not exactly happy about this. She asked me if I minded, which I felt was her way of shifting the issue to me rather than owning her decision to skip this milestone of ours. I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.

I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.


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## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> Last weekend we had a nice little getaway. We took a couple ferries and went to the San Juan islands to a bed and breakfast, toured around on the motorcycle and had a great time. Just a Mother's Day weekend trip. When we got back, I had to run an errand. While I was gone I received a text from my wife. My wife has been wanting to go to Hawaii with her girlfriend who recently bought a condo there. I'm fine with that. She's gone on a separate vacation several times over the years and I don't have an issue with that. I do my own thing sometimes too.
> 
> Anyway, this text said that her friend can only get away from the 25th of August to September 2nd. So, she's going to Hawaii. Our 25th anniversary is on the 29th. I'm not exactly happy about this. She asked me if I minded, which I felt was her way of shifting the issue to me rather than owning her decision to skip this milestone of ours. I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.
> 
> I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.


Tell her exactly how you feel. 

If my husband did that, I would have been terribly hurt. As in, I could not have spoken to him hurt, at least not right away.

This matters to you. Maybe after you two talk, you will see it differently. But right now it clearly hurts. And she should know that.


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## WorkingOnMe

jld said:


> Tell her exactly how you feel.
> 
> If my husband did that, I would have been terribly hurt. As in, I could not have spoken to him hurt, at least not right away.
> 
> This matters to you. Maybe after you two talk, you will see it differently. But right now it clearly hurts. And she should know that.


The problem for me is that if I say something, yes she'll cancel, but she'll cancel because it's a problem for me. So I get to be the jerk who took away her great trip because my feelings were hurt.


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## Diana7

I would be hurt by a) him wanting to have a holiday without me(we always go together) and b) going away at a very important time on the 25th wedding anniversary. 
How about you suggest that you book a week away together instead for your anniversary?
She can go with her friend another time if she chooses to. 
Its as if she is putting her friend first.


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## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem for me is that if I say something, yes she'll cancel, but she'll cancel because it's a problem for me. So I get to be the jerk who took away her great trip because my feelings were hurt.


Make it clear you are not approaching her because you want her to cancel for you. But you do want to share your feelings with her, because you don't want them to fester and cause resentment in the relationship.

WOM, transparency builds trust. If you want a close relationship with your wife, be vulnerable. Be transparent.


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## jld

Diana7 said:


> I would be hurt by a) him wanting to have a holiday without me(we always go together) and b) going away at a very important time on the 25th wedding anniversary.
> How about you suggest that you book a week away together instead for your anniversary?
> She can go with her friend another time if she chooses to.
> Its as if she is putting her friend first.


The friend is only available that week.

But who knows? Maybe if WOM speaks up now, she can talk to the friend and some other time could turn out to work. It is worth a try.


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## WilliamM

I don't understand what is wrong with people. All this second guessing and circling each other and sly cagey sizing up.

If it was me, it would have never happened in the first place because my wife would have moved heaven and earth to make sure she did not miss an anniversary, but there is no way I would have hesitated to say of course it matters, and I do not want you to be gone on our anniversary.

Why can't people just say what they think? What is so freaking hard about that?

Yeah, my wife can't answer a question to save her soul, but at least she can say the darndest things and knows I like her to speak her mind freely. I always speak mine, straight up and loud, with no hesitation. 

How can two people even hope to get along if they can't even manage to say what they think.


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## CharlieParker

Ouch, sorry. Did you only start talking about it recently? It's our 25th a few weeks later and we started talking about it months ago, granted what we want to do is a logistical nightmare.


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## jld

Our 25th is in two years, and we have been talking about going to Hawaii for years now. Mainly because we want to take the kids, and that is going to require some planning.


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## thefam

Clearly she knows it's important to you because she couldn't even wait for you to get home from your errand before discussing it. 

I would be terribly hurt myself and there would be little my husband could do to make up for it except maybe change his mind without me asking him to.

But that being said I think in every marriage there is going to be an occasional selfish, insensitive choice made by one spouse toward the other. Nobody is totally perfect in their actions toward the other. WOM, I think you got this. You know what to do that would be best for the both of you.


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## WorkingOnMe

CharlieParker said:


> Ouch, sorry. Did you only start talking about it recently? It's our 25th a few weeks later and we started talking about it months ago, granted what we want to do is a logistical nightmare.


We've talked about it a little but we hadn't made a concrete plan. She's been talking about the trip with her friend for a while too. I'm 100% on board with her going to Hawaii. It's a good deal and she deserves to get away once in a while. It's just a matter of the timing and priorities for me.


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## Cooper

Don't play some childish game of going dark on her if she goes, soooo immature, right now is the time you need to speak your mind. If she goes you just need deal with it, it's not the end of the world.


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## jld

Cooper said:


> Don't play some childish game of going dark on her if she goes, soooo immature, right now is the time you need to speak your mind. If she goes you just need deal with it, it's not the end of the world.


Any kind of passive aggressive action is not going to inspire her, WOM. Just be direct, and own your feelings. Be vulnerable.


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## WhiplashWish

I'll join the "tell her how you feel" chorus. If she won't cancel...damn... 

Plan a trip to Rome or Vegas or N'awlins or Amsterdam or Tokyo if she won't decide to be with you to celebrate your quarter century of marriage. Have a massive adventure of your own. With a friend if you want, on your own if you want. If she insists on being gone during your 25th anniversary the last thing I'd do is sit at home. Petty? Maybe. It beats the resentment you'd feel bubbling and seething inside when you're sitting at home while your wife is sunning it up in Hawaii without you on your anniversary.

Look, this is going to cause resentment one way or the other. The best solution, as someone above said, is for her to nix this trip on her own and plan something wonderful together. That's the save - that's chasing the happy for both of you. Plan something so magnificent that any resentment she feels about not going to Hawaii melts in the sunshine of the joy you're having together at wherever you decide to go.


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## CharlieParker

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's just a matter of the timing and priorities for me.


Can she fix that for you even if she cancels Hawaii on her own?


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## Herschel

Dude, it is effed up she wants to take a trip with her friend over your 25th anniversary. I'm with you. There is nothing good that is coming of this because the damage is already done. It's not that you want her to stay, it's that you want her to want to stay. To not even consider it. To want to be with you on this milestone. I am bothered for you and I haven't made it to a 5th anniversary yet...


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## Abc123wife

WorkingOnMe said:


> We've talked about it a little but we hadn't made a concrete plan. She's been talking about the trip with her friend for a while too. I'm 100% on board with her going to Hawaii. It's a good deal and she deserves to get away once in a while. It's just a matter of the timing and priorities for me.


Her friend lives in Hawaii? Has a condo there, right? Her friend only has that week available due to work or other travel? But, it is not like your wife can't go to Hawaii maybe next year or the next time her friend is available. Her opportunity to go on a trip to see a friend even in a fabulous location does not compare to a milestone anniversary.

25th anniversary is a once in a lifetime event and is not achieved by the majority of married couples considering the rate of divorce. I would be extremely hurt to have my spouse suggest we spend it apart no matter how great of a trip he had the chance to go on without me!


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## meson

You should speak to your wife about so that she knows your feelings. Don't hide them. Another thing is to compromise. 

Why don't you go to Hawaii as well. You can rent a nice place and then she and you can be together your your anniversary. She can then also spend some days with her friend. 

Don't do the passive aggressive maneuver of going dark.


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## jld

Herschel said:


> Dude, it is effed up she wants to take a trip with her friend over your 25th anniversary. I'm with you. There is nothing good that is coming of this because *the damage is already done*. It's not that you want her to stay, it's that you want her to want to stay. To not even consider it. To want to be with you on this milestone. I am bothered for you and I haven't made it to a 5th anniversary yet...


The bolded is true.

But . . . she may just be clueless as to how much this hurts WOM. 

Gosh, my husband does clueless stuff all the time. But all the other things that he does right balance it out. Most of the time.


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## Rowan

So, she asked if you were okay with it and you lied and said you were. Because you wanted her to read your mind, regardless of what you actually said. I mean, if she really loved you, she'd just know, right?
:slap:

Do you and your wife always have communication issues? Is there a reason you aren't willing to be honest about your wants and needs with her? Why would you expect her to read your mind when you're lying to her about your desires? 

Yes, her wanting to be away on your anniversary is likely very hurtful, and I can see why you wouldn't be okay with it and would be angry at even the suggestion. But you should have been honest with her from the start. The fact is, you are not okay with her missing your anniversary. Tell her that. Sure, ideally our partners would always make the choices we wish they would. But when they don't, it does no good for us to lie and say we're okay with it when we're not. So stop asking your wife to be a mind reader. Stop being passive-aggressive. Start being honest and effectively communicating with her. Get a good MC involved if necessary. No couple who's been together 25 years should have this much trouble being honest with one another.


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## WorkingOnMe

Abc123wife said:


> Her friend lives in Hawaii? Has a condo there, right? Her friend only has that week available due to work or other travel? But, it is not like your wife can't go to Hawaii maybe next year or the next time her friend is available. Her opportunity to go on a trip to see a friend even in a fabulous location does not compare to a milestone anniversary.
> 
> 
> 
> 25th anniversary is a once in a lifetime event and is not achieved by the majority of married couples considering the rate of divorce. I would be extremely hurt to have my spouse suggest we spend it apart no matter how great of a trip he had the chance to go on without me!




Actually our friend lives here. We're both friends with her and her husband and family. We do stuff together fairly often. They bought this condo as a vacation property and they travel their (together and separately) often. Retired airline employees so it's easy for them to go back and forth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WorkingOnMe

meson said:


> You should speak to your wife about so that she knows your feelings. Don't hide them. Another thing is to compromise.
> 
> Why don't you go to Hawaii as well. You can rent a nice place and then she and you can be together your your anniversary. She can then also spend some days with her friend.
> 
> Don't do the passive aggressive maneuver of going dark.




The point of the trip is to get some alone time away from husbands and kids. I have no issue with this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Herschel

Rowan said:


> So, she asked if you were okay with it and you lied and said you were. Because you wanted her to read your mind, regardless of what you actually said. I mean, if she really loved you, she'd just know, right?
> :slap:


This ignores the point that he wants his wife to not want to go for her. Clearly this isn't important to her like it is to him, so, why bother saying anything. Nothing he can say to her changes the fact that she thought it was ok to go.


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## CharlieParker

Herschel said:


> This ignores the point that he wants his wife to not want to go for her. Clearly this isn't important to her like it is to him, so, why bother saying anything. Nothing he can say to her changes the fact that she thought it was ok to go.


I agree with this. And the way I read it she didn't ask, she told him she was going.


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## Yeswecan

WorkingOnMe said:


> Last weekend we had a nice little getaway. We took a couple ferries and went to the San Juan islands to a bed and breakfast, toured around on the motorcycle and had a great time. Just a Mother's Day weekend trip. When we got back, I had to run an errand. While I was gone I received a text from my wife. My wife has been wanting to go to Hawaii with her girlfriend who recently bought a condo there. I'm fine with that. She's gone on a separate vacation several times over the years and I don't have an issue with that. I do my own thing sometimes too.
> 
> Anyway, this text said that her friend can only get away from the 25th of August to September 2nd. So, she's going to Hawaii. Our 25th anniversary is on the 29th. I'm not exactly happy about this. She asked me if I minded, which I felt was her way of shifting the issue to me rather than owning her decision to skip this milestone of ours. I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.
> 
> I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.



25th is a huge milestone. For me, if my W approached me with this, I would believe the trip to HI is much more exciting than the 25th. But, being it is the 25th year most have made some kind of plan. Renew vows. Trip or cruise. My W and I are planning. We hit 23 years and are planning our 25th. Did you plan anything? Perhaps you W thinks you see it as just another anniversary. Nothing planned. 

Did you plan anything for this momentous occasion? If not, why not?


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## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> The point of the trip is to get some alone time away from husbands and kids. I have no issue with this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does her friend know your anniversary is during that week?


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## Hope1964

I wouldn't be 'vulnerable', I'd be freaking pissed. And he'd have gotten an earful about the fact he would even CONSIDER doing a trip like that over our anniversary. And I would be QUITE clear that he'd ruined our anniversary by even considering this trip and that I highly doubt that he could ever make it up to me because I am totally pissed off about it.

Then I'd see if he tried to do anything to make it up to me or not, and if he did, what, and after a while I might forgive him


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## Herschel

Hope1964 said:


> I wouldn't be 'vulnerable', I'd be freaking pissed. And he'd have gotten an earful about the fact he would even CONSIDER doing a trip like that over our anniversary. And I would be QUITE clear that he'd ruined our anniversary by even considering this trip and that I highly doubt that he could ever make it up to me because I am totally pissed off about it.
> 
> Then I'd see if he tried to do anything to make it up to me or not, and if he did, what, and after a while I might forgive him


this


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## jld

Also, is your wife not one to do much for birthdays, anniversaries, etc.? Does she not expect you to do much for her birthday, for example?

People like this often do not understand why it is important to other people to make those occasions memorable. To them it is no big deal, and they just expect it is not a big deal to other people, either.

And if you are not like that, but are married to someone who is, it can be hard, and also embarrassing, to explain why it is a big deal to you. But you do have to explain it if you want to avoid or resolve resentment. IME.


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## jld

Hope1964 said:


> I wouldn't be 'vulnerable', I'd be freaking pissed. And he'd have gotten an earful about the fact he would even CONSIDER doing a trip like that over our anniversary. And I would be QUITE clear that he'd ruined our anniversary by even considering this trip and that I highly doubt that he could ever make it up to me because I am totally pissed off about it.
> 
> Then I'd see if he tried to do anything to make it up to me or not, and if he did, what, and after a while I might forgive him


At least you would be saying something. WOM was considering "going dark."


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## Abc123wife

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually our friend lives here. We're both friends with her and her husband and family. We do stuff together fairly often. They bought this condo as a vacation property and they travel their (together and separately) often. Retired airline employees so it's easy for them to go back and forth.


If these are good friends, why not approach them and ask if just your wife and you go use their condo for the week of your 25th Anniversary? That would be a wonderful gift to you and your wife. Your wife can plan some other week at a later time to get together with her friend. She can't ever go back and undo abandoning her husband on this big milestone anniversary. You already have resentment (for good reason), and she will feel guilt once all the congratulations start rolling in on the big anniversary date as she sits having a grand time with her friend in a romantic location perfect for the celebration of a 25th anniversary. Too bad the only thing missing will be her husband!


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## Lostinthought61

It's hard not to read into this, its hard to not feel sad about it, but it is even harder as a man to not say anything, but instead plicate the situation with passive aggressive behavior even in subtle ways. That said my bigger concern beyond this trip is not that she is not thinking about you, because let's face it she is not, she is thinking about laying on the beach with her friend sipping Mai Tai...and that is okay...but it does say something about how she values your anniversary....its not your birthday, its not her birthday...its the day you both became a couple....and what she wants is to celebrate her individualism through relaxation....sure you can say something but like you noted and others here, you become the bad guy. there is no right answer where she will not be happy....so what are your options...you can stay behind and sulk....you can be bitter and angry...or you can plan a trip at the same time for yourself or with a friend, not the friend's husband....but plan a trip and when she asks when do you want to celebrate your 25th, tell her let's just skip it this year.....with no anger, no passive aggressive behavior....tell her that since she is planning on going during that time that you as well are planing a trip and leave it at that..


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## Faithful Wife

I think if I remember correctly, you guy are not that tight for money are you, WOM? If not, then your wife can conceivably go to Hawaii or other girls trip at another time because it isn't like you wouldn't be able to afford it without the friend's great condo deal, right? For that reason, I don't see why her going on that week when her friend can get away is so important. Since there are other options with your wife's time and money, it seems like yeah it's a good deal but not worth missing a celebration on your 25th together.

But since she already made that choice, even if she changes plans now, I can see why you'd be bummed out about her choice.

I think you should just tell her the truth and that it is really bothering you. Let her decide to change plans or not, but at least say it. Sounds like maybe you two need to talk about more than just this.


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## Hope1964

jld said:


> At least you would be saying something. WOM was considering "going dark."


'At least' ???? Wow.

Freaking out has it's place. So does going dark. Neither should be the default position though. This would be too big of a deal to me to go dark.


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## jld

Hope1964 said:


> 'At least' ???? Wow.
> 
> Freaking out has it's place. So does going dark. Neither should be the default position though. This would be too big of a deal to me to go dark.


Blowing up at someone can shut them down. That is the risk.

Being vulnerable, though, by sharing your feelings openly and honestly, without attacking the other person, can also get communication going, but in a less threatening way.

You really have to know your partner and what approach will work best with him or her. Or just do whatever comes naturally and be prepared to accept the consequences.


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## Openminded

We spent our 25th in Hawaii. It was my husband's favorite place to vacation and although I would have preferred to mark that milestone somewhere else (I'm not a beach person) I went along with his plans with a smile on my face because I knew that would make him happy. And I knew that some other time I could go where I actually preferred going. The idea that your wife would even consider being gone on that anniversary is ridiculous IMO. Hawaii isn't going anywhere. It will still be there some other time. Your 25th anniversary won't be. Tell her.


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## Satya

You lied to yourself more than you lied to her. 

Going dark would not only be childish, but directed at the wrong person. 

Own your feelings and tell her the truth: it's your 25th anniversary and you want to spend it with her.


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## Rubix Cubed

meson said:


> You should speak to your wife about so that she knows your feelings. Don't hide them. Another thing is to compromise.
> 
> Why don't you go to Hawaii as well. You can rent a nice place and then she and you can be together your your anniversary. She can then also spend some days with her friend.
> 
> Don't do the passive aggressive maneuver of going dark.


 I was going to say just see if you can go with her.


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## Adelais

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually our friend lives here. We're both friends with her and her husband and family. We do stuff together fairly often. They bought this condo as a vacation property and they travel their (together and separately) often. Retired airline employees so it's easy for them to go back and forth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then it sounds like your friend's wife will go there again someday, and your wife can accompany her then.

The 25th anniversary happens only once.

Sorry your wife even entertained the idea of going away with her friend on her only 25th anniversary. Sounds like she doesn't value important markers like you do.

Is your marriage otherwise strong? Do you think she considered it because she thinks your marriage is strong and the anniversary is just one day in many?


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## Buddy400

WorkingOnMe said:


> Last weekend we had a nice little getaway. We took a couple ferries and went to the San Juan islands to a bed and breakfast, toured around on the motorcycle and had a great time. Just a Mother's Day weekend trip. When we got back, I had to run an errand. While I was gone I received a text from my wife. My wife has been wanting to go to Hawaii with her girlfriend who recently bought a condo there. I'm fine with that. She's gone on a separate vacation several times over the years and I don't have an issue with that. I do my own thing sometimes too.
> 
> Anyway, this text said that her friend can only get away from the 25th of August to September 2nd. So, she's going to Hawaii. Our 25th anniversary is on the 29th. I'm not exactly happy about this. She asked me if I minded, which I felt was her way of shifting the issue to me rather than owning her decision to skip this milestone of ours. I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.
> 
> I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.


Tough situation.

But, you need to let her know that this bothers you but that she is not allowed to change her plans (the damage is already done). Tell her that you're not sure what, if anything you might do about it. 

You're not trying to "solve" the problem, you're just letting her know that there is one. You really don't have any solutions, but she should know how you feel.


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## happy as a clam

Rubix Cubed said:


> I was going to say just see if you can go with her.


This doesn't exactly sound like a romantic 25th anniversary with the friend in tow. Especially if the women ditch him for some girl time on the beach .


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## Diana7

jld said:


> The friend is only available that week.
> 
> But who knows? Maybe if WOM speaks up now, she can talk to the friend and some other time could turn out to work. It is worth a try.


Its hard to believe that she has only one week free out of the whole year, and what is wrong with next year anyway?


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## SunCMars

Uh, no.

You had 24 Anniversaries before this one. And you will have 24 Anniversaries after.

Celebrate, before her trip, as she suggested.

Let her know that you love her on all the other days of the year, not just on your Anniversary.


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## frusdil

Abc123wife said:


> 25th anniversary is a once in a lifetime event and is not achieved by the majority of married couples considering the rate of divorce. I would be extremely hurt to have my spouse suggest we spend it apart no matter how great of a trip he had the chance to go on without me!


^^This.

I would be devastated and beyond furious if my husband did this. The one thing I wouldn't do is keep quiet or pretend I was ok with it when I wasn't. I'm very vocal about my needs, lol. VERY vocal.


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## Herschel

It's not just, hey, I want to do this. It's, you want them to be excited for the 25th. Like, let's how a blowout! Crazy party and fly to some public place and have drunk sex in front of strangers type of blowout...prison sentence and a joint court appearance, where you please not guilty and renew your vows. I'm tearing up here...


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## straightshooter

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem for me is that if I say something, yes she'll cancel, but she'll cancel because it's a problem for me. So I get to be the jerk who took away her great trip because my feelings were hurt.


Working,

I don't know what your problems in your marriage are or may have been but this is a bunch of crap. Hawaii will be there until you are dreads and buried but you will only have one 25th Anniversary. It shows you were her priorities are. 

This is a common issue. Men feel that if they do not totally cave to anything like this that they are controlling brutes. I didn't ask but if infidelity has had any place in your marriage it would compound the problem.

And by the way, if you read some of the books on marriage problems, it says these separate vacations are high up there after the workplace as the incubator places for inappropriate behavior.

So some sand and sum with her girlfriend is more important that this milestone with her husband. If I were you I'd tell her how you feel and not play any silly game by going dark and trying to hope she misses you. It may have the opposaite effect with your standing on her priority list right now


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## jld

Buddy400 said:


> Tough situation.
> 
> But, you need to let her know that this bothers you but that *she is not allowed to change her plans (the damage is already done)*. Tell her that you're not sure what, if anything you might do about it.
> 
> You're not trying to "solve" the problem, you're just letting her know that there is one. You really don't have any solutions, but she should know how you feel.


With that approach, there is not going to be *any* happy anniversary celebration.

Go into the discussion with an open mind, WOM. She could surprise you.


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## Lostme

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually our friend lives here. We're both friends with her and her husband and family. We do stuff together fairly often. They bought this condo as a vacation property and they travel their (together and separately) often. Retired airline employees so it's easy for them to go back and forth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Heck if she is retired and they go often surly there is another time your wife can go with her.

I would be livid and the H would sure hear about it.


----------



## The Middleman

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem for me is that if I say something, yes she'll cancel, but she'll cancel because it's a problem for me. So I get to be the jerk who took away her great trip because my feelings were hurt.


It wouldn't bother me in the least to let her know I'm pissed. I'm not a believer in separate vacations, but taking one during a special time like this is pretty egregious. 

When my wife once asked me if she could take one of her vacation weeks with her friends on a cruise instead of with me, I also said that she can do what ever she liked, but ... I would prefer if she didn't. At the time we didn't get much time alone or together, why spend scarce time off with others? Maybe I'm old fashioned....


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## notmyrealname4

I think it's awful, and that she would even consider it means that the damage is already done.

Caveat: she is a genuinely clueless person with regards to birthdays, anniversaries, Valentine's day etc. etc. Most women are kinda "into" that stuff----maybe she's the exception?

I'd go dark and be seething and resentful. But, that's "wrong" and "immature", so what do I know.

Nice to see a more vulnerable side of WOM.

If she goes; treat yourself to something GOOD.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

WorkingOnMe said:


> I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.


This is you trying to be politically correct. It will never work. Be vulnerable to her my ass. 

You might want to ask yourself why would someone want to ditch a spouse on an important date like this? I don't know you guys but I can't help but think she is either clueless or she disrespects you for some underlying reason. What's the real cause of this situation? 

Dumping you on your 25th is offensive enough, but if it were me, I would feel much more offended at the root of why she would give herself permission to treat the marriage this way. Maybe you need a marriage counselor to spell it out to her. 

As already pointed out, the damage has already been done and I'd make it clear to her that she has tainted the milestone and at this point the ruined anniversary is only a secondary casualty in the marriage. 

If her friend knows your anniversary is on this date I would consider her an enemy to your marriage.


----------



## jld

notmyrealname4 said:


> I think it's awful, and that she would even consider it means that the damage is already done.
> 
> Caveat: * she is a genuinely clueless person with regards to birthdays, anniversaries, Valentine's day etc. etc. Most women are kinda "into" that stuff----maybe she's the exception?*
> 
> I'd go dark and be seething and resentful. But, that's "wrong" and "immature", so what do I know.
> 
> Nice to see a more vulnerable side of WOM.
> 
> If she goes; treat yourself to something GOOD.


I asked him the bolded earlier. He has not responded yet, but I think it could be a pretty important point here.

My husband is like that, just does not mind at all if no one remembers his birthday. He does anniversary stuff for me, but does not care a bit whether I make any special efforts toward him at all. 

If I planned a special trip with a friend during our 25th anniversary date, I really do not think it would occur to him to be upset in any way. He would wish me well and just be happy I had the opportunity.

So if WOM's wife is like that, it might explain a lot, and feel less painful to him. People do not always operate from the same standards.


----------



## manwithnoname

I just re-read the first post. What stands out to me is she waited until he left for an errand, then texted him about the trip. This says she knows it would not be ok with him as she preferred to not inform him face to face. 

If my wife wanted to go on a trip with a friend without me on our 25th anniversary I would be pissed. Pissed that it was even a thought. All of a sudden, these milestones would mean nothing to me as well, and I would not be celebrating before or after.

OP, you should let her know how you feel. The damage may be done. If she turns it around and makes you the bad guy for ruining her trip, remind her that you just wanted to prevent your anniversary from being ruined. Unless you are ok with that.

But then again, my wife and I do not vacation separately, so that would bother me more.


----------



## Cooper

I normally am very sentimental and nostalgic, have always been a deeply emotional guy, but for some reason I think the entire 25th. anniversary thing is taking on to much focus for you OP. Of coarse that's coming from a divorced guy who was only married for twenty years!

My feelings....you show love and respect for each other every day you are together, it doesn't matter if it's day 1 or day 9,125, and that's what's important. What are you going to do on your 25th. anniversary that's any big deal? You have no grand event planned, you have gone out to hundreds of dinners, done dozens upon dozens of short trips and long weekends. Your wife has always wanted to go to Hawaii, you should have planned it! But you didn't, but she has a chance to go and you are going to make her regret it if she does, you would rater she stay home with you so you can wake up in the morning and go "wow, 25 years! I love ya baby!" Then someone has to let the dogs out, someone starts coffee, someone gets the paper, someone has to run to the store....ditto..ditto...ditto....another day. 

If you want to show your wife you love her and care about her happiness why not give her your blessing to enjoy her trip? Be selfless, it's a very attractive trait.


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## Andy1001

This thread reminds me of the thread which was updated recently.A married couple,both teachers and the wife informed her husband she was spending spring break on vacation with some colleagues and twenty students.She gave him very short notice of this trip and what really pissed him off was it was an outdoor activities vacation,canoeing,rock climbing etc.This was despite her being unable to play in the garden with her own kids because of an injury.She insisted she couldn't get out of this trip under any circumstances.
He tool the advice of people on tam and booked a Disney trip for the same week and his neighbors daughter was coming as an au pair,she had babysat the kids for years.Well would you believe it all of a sudden his wife was able to cancel her school trip and accompany her family to Disney.How lucky was that!
The op in this thread should tell give his wife his blessing and tell her to have a blast in Hawaii and book a dream vacation for himself,Alaskan cruise springs to mind or maybe an African safari.Do not sit at home under any circumstances.


----------



## jld

Cooper said:


> I normally am very sentimental and nostalgic, have always been a deeply emotional guy, but for some reason I think the entire 25th. anniversary thing is taking on to much focus for you OP. Of coarse that's coming from a divorced guy who was only married for twenty years!
> 
> My feelings....*you show love and respect for each other every day you are together, it doesn't matter if it's day 1 or day 9,125, and that's what's important. * What are you going to do on your 25th. anniversary that's any big deal? You have no grand event planned, you have gone out to hundreds of dinners, done dozens upon dozens of short trips and long weekends. *Your wife has always wanted to go to Hawaii, you should have planned it!* But you didn't, but she has a chance to go and you are going to make her regret it if she does, you would rater she stay home with you so you can wake up in the morning and go "wow, 25 years! I love ya baby!" Then someone has to let the dogs out, someone starts coffee, someone gets the paper, someone has to run to the store....ditto..ditto...ditto....another day.


The bolded may indeed be how his wife sees it. That is why it is so important for them to communicate honestly and openly about this. It could really clear the air.



> If you want to show your wife you love her and care about her happiness why not give her your blessing to enjoy her trip? Be selfless, it's a very attractive trait.


Because it would need to come from his heart to feel meaningful to her, just like whatever she does for him needs to come from her heart to feel meaningful to him. That is my guess, anyway.

This post does raise a thought-provoking but possibly painful question: If she is not prioritizing this milestone, does the reason why have anything to do with the state of the relationship?


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> This thread reminds me of the thread which was updated recently.A married couple,both teachers and the wife informed her husband she was spending spring break on vacation with some colleagues and twenty students.She gave him very short notice of this trip and what really pissed him off was it was an outdoor activities vacation,canoeing,rock climbing etc.This was despite her being unable to play in the garden with her own kids because of an injury.She insisted she couldn't get out of this trip under any circumstances.
> He tool the advice of people on tam and booked a Disney trip for the same week and his neighbors daughter was coming as an au pair,she had babysat the kids for years.Well would you believe it all of a sudden his wife was able to cancel her school trip and accompany her family to Disney.How lucky was that!
> The op in this thread should tell give his wife his blessing and tell her to have a blast in Hawaii and book a dream vacation for himself,Alaskan cruise springs to mind or maybe an African safari.Do not sit at home under any circumstances.


Andy, if they are indeed having difficulty in the relationship, and OP does anything that basically sends a big **** you! message to his wife, it is likely to make the fundamentals even worse. And then there will surely not be any genuinely happy anniversary celebration.

I know it is hard to take a step back and consider things from a non-reactive standpoint. And it can certainly feel helpful to blow off some steam first. But to really solve this problem, and begin to address whatever fundamentals may not be healthy, one of them is likely going to have to assume a leadership role.

That means temporarily setting aside their emotions and seeking to understand the viewpoint of the other person, very likely before explaining their own. And from there the idea would be to come up with a plan that both can be reasonably happy with.


----------



## heartsbeating

Satya said:


> You lied to yourself more than you lied to her.
> 
> Going dark would not only be childish, but directed at the wrong person.
> 
> Own your feelings and tell her the truth: it's your 25th anniversary and you want to spend it with her.


Absolutely agree.

Kudos WOM, for admitting how you instinctively _wanted_ to react and giving enough pause to consider there might be a different way to approach this. 

Sometimes people can surprise us. Sometimes we can surprise ourselves. Give yourself the opportunity to try something different... in this case, as Satya suggested, tell her straight that you want to spend your 25th anniversary with her and the reason why that's important to you. Know what that is and share it with her. 

Forget predicting or predetermining what her response might be or what happens after that.

I don't understand why she texted but I'd rather bring the focus on what you can do. Whether I'd feel the same or not about the anniversary is somewhat irrelevant. It's valid because you're feeling it.


----------



## MattMatt

WorkingOnMe said:


> We've talked about it a little but we hadn't made a concrete plan. She's been talking about the trip with her friend for a while too. I'm 100% on board with her going to Hawaii. It's a good deal and she deserves to get away once in a while. It's just a matter of the timing and priorities for me.


So, if there is room only for the two of them, why not book a holiday in Hawaii over that same week for you?


----------



## MattMatt

Cooper said:


> I normally am very sentimental and nostalgic, have always been a deeply emotional guy, but for some reason I think the entire 25th. anniversary thing is taking on to much focus for you OP. Of coarse that's coming from a divorced guy who was only married for twenty years!
> 
> My feelings....you show love and respect for each other every day you are together, it doesn't matter if it's day 1 or day 9,125, and that's what's important. What are you going to do on your 25th. anniversary that's any big deal? You have no grand event planned, you have gone out to hundreds of dinners, done dozens upon dozens of short trips and long weekends. Your wife has always wanted to go to Hawaii, you should have planned it! But you didn't, but she has a chance to go and you are going to make her regret it if she does, you would rater she stay home with you so you can wake up in the morning and go "wow, 25 years! I love ya baby!" Then someone has to let the dogs out, someone starts coffee, someone gets the paper, someone has to run to the store....ditto..ditto...ditto....another day.
> 
> If you want to show your wife you love her and care about her happiness why not give her your blessing to enjoy her trip? Be selfless, it's a very attractive trait.


It's the Silver Wedding Anniversary! Half way to Gold, so, yes, it is a big deal for most couples!

Hawaii will not disappear, the condo will remain standing for several more years to come.

But there will be no Silver Wedding anniversary again. That's a once in a lifetime deal.


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> Andy, if they are indeed having difficulty in the relationship, and OP does anything that basically sends a big **** you! message to his wife, it is likely to make the fundamentals even worse. And then there will surely not be any genuinely happy anniversary celebration.
> 
> I know it is hard to take a step back and consider things from a non-reactive standpoint. And it can certainly feel helpful to blow off some steam first. But to really solve this problem, and begin to address whatever fundamentals may not be healthy, one of them is likely going to have to assume a leadership role.
> 
> That means temporarily setting aside their emotions and seeking to understand the viewpoint of the other person, very likely before explaining their own. And from there the idea would be to come up with a plan that both can be reasonably happy with.


Where did I say tell her **** you?
I am advising him to tell her enjoy herself and he will do likewise.I don't mean for him to be passive aggressive about this but make his position clear, he is not prepared to sit at home while his wife goes on a girl's only trip to Hawaii.
You tell me honestly if in two years time Dug tells you he is going to watch the Tour De France instead of accompanying you to Hawaii you would be so understanding about it.His wife's friends OWN the condo and I find it very hard to believe that this is the only week they can get away.Why doesn't she suggest both of them go another week instead.Her waiting for him to leave and then texting him is a ****ty move,she hadn't the courage to talk face to face with him.
You sometimes have to call a spade a spade in this life and she is treating her husband badly and he should spell it out to her in words capable of one interpretation only.


----------



## jld

MattMatt said:


> It's the Silver Wedding Anniversary! Half way to Gold, so, yes, it is a big deal for most couples!
> 
> Hawaii will not disappear, the condo will remain standing for several more years to come.
> 
> But there will be no Silver Wedding anniversary again. That's a once in a lifetime deal.


Thing is, she may see the window for celebrating it as much larger than he does. Just like not everyone celebrates their birthday on the exact day, but on the nearest weekend or holiday, she might think they can celebrate their anniversary before or after the actual date.

For our 25th, we are planning a trip to Hawaii sometime during the 25th _year_, for example. It may easily be 7 or 8 months or even a bit after that, according to what will work for our schedules.

Again, communication is definitely needed here. They may just be working from different standards, without any ill intentions.


----------



## Cooper

jld said:


> The bolded may indeed be how his wife sees it. That is why it is so important for them to communicate honestly and openly about this. It could really clear the air.
> 
> 
> 
> Because it would need to come from his heart to feel meaningful to her, just like whatever she does for him needs to come from her heart to feel meaningful to him. That is my guess, anyway.
> 
> This post does raise a thought-provoking but possibly painful question: If she is not prioritizing this milestone, does the reason why have anything to do with the state of the relationship?



Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.


----------



## MattMatt

Cooper said:


> [/COLOR][/SIZE]
> 
> Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.


Or is this her, perchance?


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> Where did I say tell her **** you?
> I am advising him to tell her enjoy herself and he will do likewise.I don't mean for him to be passive aggressive about this but make his position clear, he is not prepared to sit at home while his wife goes on a girl's only trip to Hawaii.
> You tell me honestly if in two years time Dug tells you he is going to watch the Tour De France instead of accompanying you to Hawaii you would be so understanding about it.His wife's friends OWN the condo and I find it very hard to believe that this is the only week they can get away.Why doesn't she suggest both of them go another week instead.Her waiting for him to leave and then texting him is a ****ty move,she hadn't the courage to talk face to face with him.
> You sometimes have to call a spade a spade in this life and she is treating her husband badly and he should spell it out to her in words capable of one interpretation only.


Sorry, should have clarified. If he sends a message that she_ perceives_ as a big **** you, it could make any difficulties in the relationship even more challenging to deal with. No sense in escalating an already tense situation.

Did you see my post about our planning to go to Hawaii sometime during our 25th _year_?

We have to have a bigger window because we want to take our kids, and so need to be flexible.

Plus, our anniversary is during warm weather in our region. I want to go to Hawaii when we can really appreciate it, not when it is already nice right here where we live.

If Dug told me he could go and follow the _Tour_ and stay for free with a friend, I would be happy for him. Not everyone has an opportunity like that.

I would expect an acknowledgement on the actual date, though, even if just a love letter and some delivered flowers. It is still a milestone.


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## farsidejunky

I would be hurt too, WOM. 
She is trying to get you to make the decision, which when combined with the fact that she even asked, shows her priority.

I just posed this scenario to F2 with the genders reversed. She said she would have been irritated. 

After explaining, she said, "Wait, she did it by text? I'd be pissed! A real friend would give _them_ the condo for their anniversary."


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## jld

Cooper said:


> Your comment made me think of something. Maybe his wife doesn't want to celebrate 25 years of marriage. If she is unhappy and their relationship is struggling maybe pretending to be excited about their 25th is more than she wants to deal with. Maybe the thought of spending an entire day holding hands and playing romantic is so false to her she asked her friend if she could come to Hawaii to visit. If she feels there's nothing worth celebrating the day holds nothing but gloom and stress for her.


It is true that we do not hear from her. Maybe she is afraid of WOM, especially if he has a history of passive aggressive behavior. 

That may be why she did not speak to him directly, but sent a text. It may have felt safer.


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> It is true that we do not hear from her. Maybe she is afraid of WOM, especially if he has a history of passive aggressive behavior.
> 
> That may be why she did not speak to him directly, but sent a text. It may have felt safer.


You can make every excuse under the sun for her jld but the bottom line is she would prefer a girls only trip with her friend to Hawaii to celebrating with her husband and family what is a momentous occasion in any marriage.Now if that isn't a major **** you I never heard one.


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## lucy999

I think perhaps it's because I have never been married, only in long-term relationships. So I'll get that disclaimer out there right away. 

I have never put any sort of importance in my adult life on anniversaries and holidays. The only one I want recognition for is my birthday, and I'm not even high maintenance about that. Sure, my feelings would be hurt in this situation, but I would get over it pretty quickly because I could always celebrate either before or after my spouse went to Hawaii. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Whatever you do, like others have said here, don't do the passive-aggressive thing, or go dark. It is your own fault for candy coating your truth to her.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> You can make every excuse under the sun for her jld but the bottom line is she would prefer a girls only trip with her friend to Hawaii to celebrating with her husband and family what is a momentous occasion in any marriage.Now if that isn't a major **** you I never heard one.


Andy, did you read any of my other posts? I offered some explanations there. 

Assuming the worst of our spouses is unlikely to lead to conflict resolution and close connection. Understanding their perspectives and their motives can.

I would not be surprised if she is low emo, just like Dug. They do not operate the same way high emo folks like WOM or I do. 

But that does not make them bad or wrong. Just different.


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## jld

lucy999 said:


> I think perhaps it's because I have never been married, only in long-term relationships. So I'll get that disclaimer out there right away.
> 
> *I have never put any sort of importance in my adult life on anniversaries and holidays. The only one I want recognition for is my birthday, and I'm not even high maintenance about that. Sure, my feelings would be hurt in this situation, but I would get over it pretty quickly because I could always celebrate either before or after my spouse went to Hawaii. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.*
> 
> Whatever you do, like others have said here, don't do the passive-aggressive thing, or go dark. It is your own fault for candy coating your truth to her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Another person wired like Dug and probably WOM's wife.

Thanks for speaking up, Lucy. 

This may truly be nothing personal from your wife, WOM. Just how she is wired.


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## Andy1001

jld said:


> Andy, did you read any of my other posts? I offered some explanations there.
> 
> Assuming the worst of our spouses is unlikely to lead to conflict resolution and close connection. Understanding their perspectives and their motives can.
> 
> I would not be surprised if she is low emo, just like Dug. They do not operate the same way high emo folks like WOM or I do.
> 
> But that does not make them bad or wrong. Just different.


You offered what in your opinion were excuses for her behaviour not explanations because nobody on this forum knows her or what she is like.
However for someone with a low emo(whatever that is) she had a nice weekend away for MOTHERS day,but it seems like a lot of entitled people her motto is it's "all about me".


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> You offered what in your opinion were excuses for her behaviour not explanations because nobody on this forum knows her or what she is like.
> However for someone with a low emo(whatever that is) she had a nice weekend away for MOTHERS day,but it seems like a lot of entitled people her motto is it's "all about me".


What do you see as an excuse versus an explanation?

I get the impression you have already judged her and decided what you believe to be the only acceptable way of handling an anniversary. 

If WOM takes that one-sided approach, how is it going to help him?


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## Andy1001

jld said:


> What do you see as an excuse versus an explanation?
> 
> I get the impression you have already judged her and decided what you believe to be the only acceptable way of handling an anniversary.
> 
> If WOM takes that one-sided approach, how is it going to help him?


Well to start with I am not in favour of separate vacations and I would not be happy if my partner wanted to have one.I have been reading this forum for almost a year and there are a couple of things that spring out at me that seem to be very common in regards to relationship difficulties.One of them is when a few women go on vacation without their husbands,one cheats and the others cover up.Another is where one partner "needs space" and this usually ends up as infidelity.I am not for one minute suggesting that this is the case here.
I believe in preventing problems rather than fixing them.
You are probably about to tell me I'm controlling,insecure and jealous.
But I'm not.
If my gf wanted to go on a girls only trip to Vegas for two weeks I would give her my blessing and pay for her trip.
She wouldn't be my girlfriend any more though.
As for Wom,he is doing what any normal man would do,he is feeling belittled by his wife and her passive aggressiveness is not a sign of someone afraid of her husband.He should tell her enjoy her trip and he will see her when they are back home.


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> Well to start with I am not in favour of separate vacations and I would not be happy if my partner wanted to have one.I have been reading this forum for almost a year and there are a couple of things that spring out at me that seem to be very common in regards to relationship difficulties.One of them is when a few women go on vacation without their husbands,one cheats and the others cover up.Another is where one partner "needs space" and this usually ends up as infidelity.I am not for one minute suggesting that this is the case here.
> I believe in preventing problems rather than fixing them.
> *You are probably about to tell me I'm controlling,insecure and jealous.*
> But I'm not.
> If my gf wanted to go on a girls only trip to Vegas for two weeks I would give her my blessing and pay for her trip.
> She wouldn't be my girlfriend any more though.


Okay, I won't say it.  

J/k! 

WOM's wife took a vacation some time back with his kids, without him. It does not sound like this is out of the ordinary in their family. 

I personally would not want to take a vacation away from my husband. I love being with him and feel best with him. 

But he is often gone for work, and his vacation time is limited. Plus, we have several younger kids still at home who are involved in activities. It is cheaper and more practical to have a parent here at all times.

So last year I went by myself to Europe to see my daughter during her study abroad year. I spent a week in Switzerland with her, and then 9 days in Spain. It would have been great to have the whole family there, but would have been expensive and a lot more work.

And next year, when she is in Asia, I intend to go visit her with the little boys for a month or 6 weeks. Dug is very unlikely to join us. No issue at all for him. He just wants us to enjoy ourselves.

_Two people can operate according to different standards without either one of them being wrong or bad._


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> As for Wom,he is doing what any normal man would do,he is feeling belittled by his wife and her passive aggressiveness is not a sign of someone afraid of her husband.He should tell her enjoy her trip and he will see her when they are back home.


Just saw this addition to your original post.

He may be doing what any *sensitive* man may do. Not all men, nor all people, are sensitive. Some men are just fine with wives doing what WOM's did.

WOM, if you do decide to take what your wife may perceive as a reactive measure to her original plan, just be aware that there may be consequences. Like often begets like, after all. Be ready to deal with those consequences.

Honestly, so much difficulty can be avoided with clear, direct communication. I hope you will pursue that more constructive route.


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## Taxman

My first response to my wife would be, "Thank you, so very much for respecting me and our marriage. I think I will go out on our 25th anniversary, with my new girlfriend, (insert name here). Enjoy Hawaii, and hopefully, your next husband will make it to 25 years, so that you can respect him just as much."

In short, I'd be absolutely livid. Dream vacation notwithstanding. She wants to go, tell her not to bother coming back.


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## Andy1001

jld said:


> Just saw this addition to your original post.
> 
> He may be doing what any *sensitive* man may do. Not all men, nor all people, are sensitive. Some men are just fine with wives doing what WOM's did.
> 
> WOM, if you do decide to take what your wife may perceive as a reactive measure to her original plan, just be aware that there may be consequences. Like often begets like, after all. Be ready to deal with those consequences.
> 
> Honestly, so much difficulty can be avoided with clear, direct communication. I hope you will pursue that more constructive route.


I see you replaced the word normal with sensitive in my original post.I can remember you twice describing what a sensitive man was in your opinion and one description was a man who was sensitive to the feelings of others but does not take offence himself.Have you considered that the op is thinking about how this looks to his close and extended family and friends.That his wife wants to mark twenty five years of marriage by having a vacation with her girlfriend rather than celebrating with family.


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## WorkingOnMe

A few people have asked about why she sent a text. She had been talking with the friend trying to work out a date that would work over the last few weeks. My wife works for the school district and wanted to go during summer break. I was running our son's car to the mechanic to drop off which is a 2 hour round trip. She texted me the moment she found out the date. I guess the condo is in a rental pool when they're not using it. She followed up with a call 10 minutes later. Don't read too much into the texting. This is common for us. I don't think she thought it was a big deal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

Sorry OP you didn't stand up for what you wanted so you don't get to be pissy about it. Yeah it sucks that she knew it was important to you and still wanted to go but she asked you if it was ok and you went along with it. 

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> I see you replaced the word normal with sensitive in my original post.I can remember you twice describing what a sensitive man was in your opinion and one description was a man who was sensitive to the feelings of others but does not take offence himself.Have you considered that the op is thinking about how this looks to his close and extended family and friends.That his wife wants to mark twenty five years of marriage by having a vacation with her girlfriend rather than celebrating with family.


Because I think you think sensitive is normal. And for some men it might be. Not for others.

Why does what it look like to others matter?

What it *feels* like to OP and his wife is what matters, imo.


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## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> A few people have asked about why she sent a text. She had been talking with the friend trying to work out a date that would work over the last few weeks. My wife works for the school district and wanted to go during summer break. I was running our son's car to the mechanic to drop off which is a 2 hour round trip. *She texted me the moment she found out the date.* I guess the condo is in a rental pool when they're not using it. She followed up with a call 10 minutes later. Don't read too much into the texting. This is common for us. I don't think she thought it was a big deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds very respectful and considerate.


----------



## Nucking Futs

WorkingOnMe said:


> A few people have asked about why she sent a text. She had been talking with the friend trying to work out a date that would work over the last few weeks. My wife works for the school district and wanted to go during summer break. I was running our son's car to the mechanic to drop off which is a 2 hour round trip. She texted me the moment she found out the date. I guess the condo is in a rental pool when they're not using it. She followed up with a call 10 minutes later. Don't read too much into the texting. This is common for us. I don't think she thought it was a big deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WOM, is it common for you to time shift special occasions, or do you normally celebrate on the day?


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> Because I think you think sensitive is normal. And for some men it might be. Not for others.
> 
> Why does what it look like to others matter?
> 
> What it *feels* like to OP and his wife is what matters, imo.


So are you saying to take the feelings of others into consideration is abnormal.Where does this coexist with your ideal man who inspires you,emphasises with you and "stands full present and unreactive to your emotional storms" .How can he inspire you without taking your feelings into consideration above his own.In the same way he is thinking about his extended family.In your opinion is a man being sensitive a positive or negative trait.
I know I am using your own quotes here but you seem to be contradicting yourself on this thread in comparison to others.


----------



## Diana7

SunCMars said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> You had 24 Anniversaries before this one. And you will have 24 Anniversaries after.
> 
> Celebrate, before her trip, as she suggested.
> 
> Let her know that you love her on all the other days of the year, not just on your Anniversary.


In the uk the 25th, silver, is a very important one. She can go away with her friend another time, there is only one 25th wedding anniversary.


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> So are you saying to take the feelings of others into consideration is abnormal.Where does this coexist with your ideal man who inspires you,emphasises with you and "stands full present and unreactive to your emotional storms" .How can he inspire you without taking your feelings into consideration above his own.In the same way he is thinking about his extended family.In your opinion is a man being sensitive a positive or negative trait.
> I know I am using your own quotes here but you seem to be contradicting yourself on this thread in comparison to others.


Not sure I am following you. 

How Dug and I celebrate our anniversary is pretty separate from anything to do with his extended family or mine. 

Or do you mean that maybe they are planning a big party on their 25th, to include extended family and friends? WOM, could you clarify on this?

I guess I thought it was more a private celebration.


----------



## Andy1001

Diana7 said:


> In the uk the 25th, silver, is a very important one. She can go away with her friend another time, there is only one 25th wedding anniversary.


I agree.I have been at twenty fifth anniversary parties in the UK and Ireland and also with distant relatives here and there is always a huge celebration.The amount of times I crossed the Atlantic just for a party is unreal.In this day and age to stay married for twenty five years deserves to be celebrated.As you say she can go to Hawaii anytime,she has a silver wedding anniversary once.


----------



## jld

Diana7 said:


> In the uk the 25th, silver, is a very important one. She can go away with her friend another time, there is only one 25th wedding anniversary.


It is not necessarily celebrated on the exact day, though, is it? I mean if you are having a big party with friends and extended family?


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> Not sure I am following you.
> 
> How Dug and I celebrate our anniversary is pretty separate from anything to do with his extended family or mine.
> 
> Or do you mean that maybe they are planning a big party on their 25th, to include extended family and friends? WOM, could you clarify on this?
> 
> I guess I thought it was more a private celebration.


What I was trying to say was one one hand you seem to think the op should happily stand back and watch his wife go on vacation on their once in a lifetime silver wedding anniversary,in other words be sensitive to her needs,while at the same time you seem to be saying that sensitivity in a man is a negative trait.
By the way you seem to spend a lot of time away from Dug.That wouldn't suit me at all.I don't know how you managed on your own.


----------



## TBT

You say her friend frequently travels to Hawaii,so why not make it for another time. Hawaii,I don't think,isn't going to disappear anytime soon,but your 25th is a one time milestone.


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> It is not necessarily celebrated on the exact day, though, is it? I mean if you are having a big party with friends and extended family?


In most families that I know the silver anniversary is celebrated by the couple on the day it falls with dinner and then a big get together on the next Friday or Saturday night.


----------



## 23cm

The 25th was a very special Anniversary for me and the ex. So, I would have been uber disappointed. After the kids came, we only had sex once every five years and that was gonna be the day.


----------



## Hope1964

Andy1001 said:


> In most families that I know the silver anniversary is celebrated by the couple on the day it falls with dinner and then a big get together on the next Friday or Saturday night.


Exactly. 

Are you freaking kidding me jld that you actually think WOM's wife was being 'very respectful and considerate.'?????? Take whatever you like out of context, change whatever words in other people's posts you feel like, you cannot change the fact that she wants to take a trip without her husband on their 25th anniversary. And that he doesn't like it.

WOM's wife made a huge boo boo here. Talk about him being vulnerable and what he should have said and blah blah blah all you want - the fact remains that THE WOMAN SCREWED UP. ROYALLY.


----------



## jld

Hope1964 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Are you freaking kidding me jld that you actually think WOM's wife was being 'very respectful and considerate.'?????? Take whatever you like out of context, change whatever words in other people's posts you feel like, you cannot change the fact that she wants to take a trip without her husband on their 25th anniversary. And that he doesn't like it.
> 
> WOM's wife made a huge boo boo here. Talk about him being vulnerable and what he should have said and blah blah blah all you want - the fact remains that THE WOMAN SCREWED UP. ROYALLY.


Yes, I think it was respectful and considerate of her to text him immediately. And I am guessing she is a low emo gal overall.

WOM, how about answering the questions about whether or not she is sensitive about celebrations? That could give us a good eye view into her psyche on this.


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> In most families that I know the silver anniversary is celebrated by the couple on the day it falls with dinner and then a big get together on the next Friday or Saturday night.


WOM, is this what you had planned?

Most couples I know have a celebration on the 40th or 50th with extended family and friends, but not necessarily on the exact date.

The 25th is usually done privately around here. I don't know about the exact day of the celebration, though. I am sure that is up to each couple.

And the main thing, at least to me, is that WOM and his wife come up with a solution they both can live with.


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> What I was trying to say was one one hand you seem to think the op should happily stand back and watch his wife go on vacation on their once in a lifetime silver wedding anniversary,in other words be sensitive to her needs,while at the same time you seem to be saying that sensitivity in a man is a negative trait.
> By the way you seem to spend a lot of time away from Dug.That wouldn't suit me at all.I don't know how you managed on your own.


No, I think he should talk to her openly and honestly about it, and be open to her feedback as well.

I do not think she is trying to hurt his feelings. I think she just operates out of a different mindset than he does.

I think they can work this out and find a solution they both can feel reasonably comfortable with. But it is going to take clear and direct communication.

Dug is often gone for work, it is true. He loves his work and I think it is very important to respect that, especially since he is the sole breadwinner.


----------



## CharlieParker

Our, just us 2, big deal celebration (trip back to the church in England) likely won't be on the exact date but you can be sure we will be together on the exact date, and not with an ocean literally between us. We are not planning a big get together at any time.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

jld said:


> Yes, I think it was respectful and considerate of her to text him immediately. And I am guessing she is a low emo gal overall.
> 
> 
> 
> WOM, how about answering the questions about whether or not she is sensitive about celebrations? That could give us a good eye view into her psyche on this.




Certain holidays are a really big deal to her. For example, Christmas. Anniversaries and birthdays are less important to her. She is happy to do whatever I have planned, but wouldn't ordinarily plan something on her own. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WorkingOnMe

jld said:


> WOM, is this what you had planned?
> 
> 
> 
> Most couples I know have a celebration on the 40th or 50th with extended family and friends, but not necessarily on the exact date.
> 
> 
> 
> The 25th is usually done privately around here. I don't know about the exact day of the celebration, though. I am sure that is up to each couple.
> 
> 
> 
> And the main thing, at least to me, is that WOM and his wife come up with a solution they both can live with.




To be fair, I would say that usually the large family gatherings are more for the 50th anniversary. The 25th around here tends to be more of a private celebration. We've always done it on the exact day. I had not yet planned anything and she certainly would not have planned anything for the day. Eventually I would have planned some kind of trip but we have not yet decided what it would be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> No, I think he should talk to her openly and honestly about it, and be open to her feedback as well.
> 
> I do not think she is trying to hurt his feelings. I think she just operates out of a different mindset than he does.
> 
> I think they can work this out and find a solution they both can feel reasonably comfortable with. But it is going to take clear and direct communication.
> 
> Dug is often gone for work, it is true. He loves his work and I think it is very important to respect that, especially since he is the sole breadwinner.


To be honest I don't actually know anyone who reached their golden wedding anniversary so I couldn't comment on that but in my extended family a silver anniversary is cause for a big time celebration.If his wife is low emo as you seem to think I think her husband might have had an inkling after twenty five years of marriage plus however long they dated for.I don't think he would be this upset by her springing this trip on him if she had shown this low emo behaviour in the past.And as the op pointed out they allready had a weekend trip for Mother's Day so she is not averse to celebrating and being centre of attention.
I know it is part of your inner being to see the wife's side as the correct one in most cases but I think she is being totally unreasonable here and actually downright disrespectful of her husband of almost twenty five years.


----------



## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> To be fair, I would say that usually the large family gatherings are more for the 50th anniversary. The 25th around here tends to be more of a private celebration. We've always done it on the exact day. I had not yet planned anything and she certainly would not have planned anything for the day. Eventually I would have planned some kind of trip but we have not yet decided what it would be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, even the 40th is a relatively recent public celebration around here. It used to be just the 50th. 

But as some people die before the 50th, the 40th became more popular. 

It sounds like you are more the celebration planner of the two of you. Any chance she thought that if you had not mentioned anything for the 25th so far, she might have thought her going with her friend was not as much of an issue?

Again, just trying to understand what might be her pov here.


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> To be honest I don't actually know anyone who reached their golden wedding anniversary so I couldn't comment on that but in my extended family a silver anniversary is cause for a big time celebration.If his wife is low emo as you seem to think I think her husband might have had an inkling after twenty five years of marriage plus however long they dated for.I don't think he would be this upset by her springing this trip on him if she had shown this low emo behaviour in the past.And as the op pointed out they allready had a weekend trip for Mother's Day so she is not averse to celebrating and being centre of attention.
> I know it is part of your inner being to see the wife's side as the correct one in most cases but I think she is being totally unreasonable here and actually downright disrespectful of her husband of almost twenty five years.


He said she doesn't make a very big deal about birthdays and anniversaries, so it sounds to me like she's on the lower emo end of the spectrum. 

And I don't think it's unusual for people on the higher end and people on the lower end to be married to each other. Opposites often attract. It is probably a complementary union.

It is not about the woman being "correct." It's that when you can get into her head and understand why she's doing what she has done that has upset you, you are more likely to be able to resolve the issue and avoid it in the future.

Somebody has to be the leader in conflict resolution, Andy. And since we usually only have one partner in a couple here to talk to, that person is usually it.


----------



## Hope1964

Andy1001 said:


> I know it is part of your inner being to see the wife's side as the correct one in most cases but I think she is being totally unreasonable here and actually downright disrespectful of her husband of almost twenty five years.


:iagree:

Give it up though, andy. You're fighting a losing battle. Anyone who thinks this woman is actually being respectful here isn't going to listen to you or I.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

WorkingOnMe said:


> We've always done it on the exact day. I had not yet planned anything and she certainly would not have planned anything for the day.


Thank you, this is all I needed. I do not need to bicker or argue in circles. You've celebrated together for 24 years so, there is no excuse to suddenly think 25 should be any different or not hurtful. Don't go the passive aggressive route, but I'd let her know. If she chooses to cancel, oh well. It isn't like you did something new or out of the ordinary. Especially, since she has her "special" days she likes to celebrate. It is hypocritical to like certain days and then fly the excuse of "well it is a birthday or an anniversary so, I don't get to care." It's called empathy. She respects the days he likes, he respects hers.


----------



## Joyfull

So, not sure if its been said, but for some, the 25th wedding anniversary is a big deal. It appears to be a BIG deal for WOM. However, this BIG deal is like 3 months away and yet there hadn't been any kind of discussion as to what the plan would be, ideas tossed around, etc.?

Many who consider milestones like this a BIG deal start discussing and even planning typically a year out or six months out at the least. However, again this possible conflict is in conflict with an absent plan? WOM has admitted that anniversaries aren't that big a deal for wife and WOM says nothing happens unless he plans. So, wife maybe thought that it was not a BIG deal given the planner hasnt made a plan or discussed a plan(their 25 yr dynamic). 

Maybe we give her a break. She asked a question given an opportunity that she's drooled over for some time. She asked "the planner" before out right deciding. She gave him the opportunity to say, "hey, me, the planner, has already made plans for our anniversary and then it would have been settled. But WOM, the planner, said nothing and got super upset instead. 

IDK, poor wife was thrown to the wolves but her actions in this speaks to me as "their dynamic" or there is a deeper issue going on.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Joyfull said:


> So, not sure if its been said, but for some, the 25th wedding anniversary is a big deal. It appears to be a BIG deal for WOM. However, this BIG deal is like 3 months away and yet there hadn't been any kind of discussion as to what the plan would be, ideas tossed around, etc.?
> 
> Many who consider milestones like this a BIG deal start discussing and even planning typically a year out or six months out at the least. However, again this possible conflict is in conflict with an absent plan? WOM has admitted that anniversaries aren't that big a deal for wife and WOM says nothing happens unless he plans. So, wife maybe thought that it was not a BIG deal given the planner hasnt made a plan or discussed a plan(their 25 yr dynamic).
> 
> Maybe we give her a break. She asked a question given an opportunity that she's drooled over for some time. She asked "the planner" before out right deciding. She gave him the opportunity to say, "hey, me, the planner, has already made plans for our anniversary and then it would have been settled. But WOM, the planner, said nothing and got super upset instead.
> 
> IDK, poor wife was thrown to the wolves but her actions in this speaks to me as "their dynamic" or there is a deeper issue going on.


Some do, Some do not.


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## syhoybenden

Not to worry. Just tell her "Don't feel bad honey. We'll celebrate together on our next 25th anniversary. Unless of course you're busy that day."

Yeah, and good luck getting there.


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## Hope1964

There's ALWAYS a deeper issue going on. That doesn't mean she should just throw their anniversary under the bus. All the more reason NOT to do so.


----------



## Taxman

I would question her as to why she does not have even a modicum of sentiment over a major milestone. If this is her attitude to the marriage and to you frankly, then there is very little marriage there. I'm sorry but this calls for a confrontation. Hawaii would be wonderful, in fact, I'd get hold of her friend and ask if you could use the property the day after your wife and her leave. You will be entertaining some new girls there. Your wife can have a good look at her replacement.

A really big example, for our 25th we took our first cruise. For our 40th next year, we are renting an apartment in Paris for a week and another in Tuscany for the next week. That is how married people celebrate milestone anniversaries, not flying off to Hawaii with a girlfriend while leaving hubby at home. If she even wants a marriage, this should be written in SHARPIE on her forehead: Anniversaries are FU**ing important. Little getaways ARE NOT!!!!!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Not blowing my marriage up over this or bringing a new girl into the picture. 

I really think she just didn't think it was a big deal. She figured we'd celebrate before or after. She does know it's s big deal to me. She said as much. She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad. I think on the actual day she's going to feel really bad being away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LOL. At least make it a poker night or sports weekend with the fellas. This entire passive aggressive suggestion of pay her female only trip back, by going with a female friend is weird as hell. I don't know why you are suggesting he should do this in the first place anniversary or not.


----------



## Hope1964

So are you going to say anything to her? She's going anyway?

I hope you don't regret not telling her how you really feel. If she chooses to resent you for it then that's her problem. If she keeps throwing it in your face or something, you need to educate her that that is not acceptable. This has been a HUGE issue in our marriage. But it's just my husband that does it - it sounds like both you and her do it to some degree.


----------



## Joyfull

WorkingOnMe said:


> Not blowing my marriage up over this or bringing a new girl into the picture.
> 
> I really think she just didn't think it was a big deal. She figured we'd celebrate before or after. She does know it's s big deal to me. She said as much. She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad. I think on the actual day she's going to feel really bad being away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you discussed your feelings with her? Why didnt you tell her no? Why not join her on your anniversary? You're the one who plans. So make plans to be there with her.

Why haven't you talked to her? Is there a deeper issue? This compounds it?


----------



## Andy1001

Taxman said:


> I would question her as to why she does not have even a modicum of sentiment over a major milestone. If this is her attitude to the marriage and to you frankly, then there is very little marriage there. I'm sorry but this calls for a confrontation. Hawaii would be wonderful, in fact, I'd get hold of her friend and ask if you could use the property the day after your wife and her leave. You will be entertaining some new girls there. Your wife can have a good look at her replacement.
> 
> A really big example, for our 25th we took our first cruise. For our 40th next year, we are renting an apartment in Paris for a week and another in Tuscany for the next week. That is how married people celebrate milestone anniversaries, not flying off to Hawaii with a girlfriend while leaving hubby at home. If she even wants a marriage, this should be written in SHARPIE on her forehead: Anniversaries are FU**ing important. Little getaways ARE NOT!!!!!


If I was the op and finances permitted I wouldn't mention her soirée to Hawaii again just tell her to have fun.I would meet her at the airport but I would be going on a vacation myself,maybe Hawaii but preferably London or maybe Amsterdam or even Thailand sounds good.
Just for the scenery of course.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Hope1964 said:


> So are you going to say anything to her? She's going anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you don't regret not telling her how you really feel. If she chooses to resent you for it then that's her problem. If she keeps throwing it in your face or something, you need to educate her that that is not acceptable. This has been a HUGE issue in our marriage. But it's just my husband that does it - it sounds like both you and her do it to some degree.




I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

WorkingOnMe said:


> Not blowing my marriage up over this or bringing a new girl into the picture.
> 
> I really think she just didn't think it was a big deal. She figured we'd celebrate before or after. She does know it's s big deal to me. She said as much. She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad. I think on the actual day she's going to feel really bad being away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So she wants to do EXACTLY what she intended to do in the first place with the added attraction of YOU feeling guilty for making her feel bad.So where is the compromise dude.
This is ****ed up on so many levels.


----------



## Steve1000

WorkingOnMe said:


> I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.


That would normally bother me too. However, my wife doesn't remember when our anniversary comes around. I remember, but I don't say anything because I already realize that she's simply not romantic about those types of things. If your wife travels with her friends during your 25th wedding anniversary, would that be typical of her?


----------



## Hope1964

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after.


There is a third choice you know. You can decide to not allow her to make you the bad guy. Because that's what you're doing - you're ALLOWING it.

I had this EXACT same conversation with hubby the other day. Not about a trip to hawaii  but about whether he was coming in to the hot tub with me. I asked him if he was coming with me. He didn't say anything but immediately dropped what he was doing and got up and came with me. We got in the hot tub and he was all agitated. I asked him why and he said "Cuz YOU MADE ME stop what I was doing and come with you." I'm like WTF??? I asked you a bloody question, dude. You chose not to answer it but instead to drop what you were doing and come with me, and now you're making it out that I MADE you do it?!?!? Screw that. And I laid my head back, enjoyed my buzz and relaxed in the hot tub. After about 5 minutes he told me I was right and that was the end of THAT nonsense.


----------



## syhoybenden

WorkingOnMe said:


> She does know it's s big deal to me. She said as much. She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Awwwww. The poor widdle boo-boo. You big meanie.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> Not blowing my marriage up over this or bringing a new girl into the picture.
> 
> I really think she just didn't think it was a big deal. She figured we'd celebrate before or after. She does know it's s big deal to me. She said as much. She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad. I think on the actual day she's going to feel really bad being away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She cares more about her girlfriend than she does you or the marriage. This is what her actions say. And if her girlfriend were a quality person, she would not be asking your wife to be away from you on such an important milestone. 

Grab your cards and hit Vegas. Spend tons and have fun. To hell with her.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. *I told her it's only important to me if it is to her.* Then she said we can celebrate before or after.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you lied to her.....

Weak.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Working......I'm sorry but you pussied out, you placated her completely...when she tells you to celebrate on before or after you should have said neither....and just walked away not angry or upset....and if she says why....if it's not important to you it's not important to me....and move on...instead you wimped. Shame on you


----------



## Livvie

I don't think OPs wife was"respectful". Respectful would have been telling him about the opportunity to go away with her friend and discussing together whether she should accept the opportunity or not. From the OP, it sounds like she texted him to TELL him she was going, and threw in the --do you mind. There's a world of difference between the two.


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## Taxman

Personally sir you are making excuses for your wife who appears to be selfish and frankly a total c**t. Most people would love dearly to have a getaway with their husband. I dare say that while the cat (you) is back home, the mice will play in Hawaii. Tell her that she will just have to feel bad that Hawaii sunk into the Pacific, and no longer exists. She expects you to let her get away, and f88k you for wanting to celebrate your 25th anniversary. I suggest that you go out on your 25th with someone other than her. Tell her in advance that you do want to go out for your anniversary and are looking for a date.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Taxman said:


> Personally sir you are making excuses for your wife who appears to be selfish and frankly a total c**t. Most people would love dearly to have a getaway with their husband. I dare say that while the cat (you) is back home, the mice will play in Hawaii. Tell her that she will just have to feel bad that Hawaii sunk into the Pacific, and no longer exists. She expects you to let her get away, and f88k you for wanting to celebrate your 25th anniversary. I suggest that you go out on your 25th with someone other than her. Tell her in advance that you do want to go out for your anniversary and are looking for a date.


I definitely get the impression that some people can't comprehend our lifestyle. Look, I may not be happy with my wife right now, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with you coming on my thread and calling her a ****. As far as dearly loving to have a getaway with me, maybe I've spoiled her too much....but we do a lot of traveling together. I went to Hawaii on business myself in February, Reno in March so traveling apart isn't unprecedented either. . We have extremely busy lives which is the only reason I hadn't planned something already. I'm trying to fit in a Mt. Rainier climb at the end of July (with friends, not her) and a multi day bicycle trip (with her) to Vancouver Island in mid/early August. 

And I have no reservations about her faithfulness while she's away. The woman she's going with is like June Cleaver and that's just not how my wife rolls. I know, I've said the opposite to many posters here over the years and I'm not naive enough to think it can't happen. It's just remote enough a chance that it's not really on my radar.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

bandit.45 said:


> So you lied to her.....
> 
> Weak.


This is true. At the time I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk. You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.


----------



## TRy

WorkingOnMe said:


> I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after.


 She told you that "she knows that it's important to" you, but she is pushing through with the trip anyways because at the end of the day she does not care. You telling her that "it's only important to me if it is to her", is you clearly telling her that if does not matter to her, then there is no point in pretending that your marriage anniversary matters. State this to her using similar words to what I just said so that she cannot later falsely claim that she does not understand this. If she goes anyways, you now know exactly where you stand. It is what it is. That is the condition of your marriage and how she feels about you. You cannot make her care.

All time shares allow you to change dates for a fee. If you do not care if it is the same exact condo (it is shared with dozens of other people anyways), but just a similar one, you will have a lot of date options. Offer to pay the change fee and ask them to change the date accordingly. This offer will make it even clearer that it is important to you enough to pay a fee, and give her the chance to do the right thing. If she does not, then it is on her.

I could not imagine my wife not wanting to be with me on such an important anniversary, but if she did not, I would not want to celebrate this or any other anniversary with her, as anniversaries are only important if both value it. When the anniversary comes around, I would not respond, comment, or like anything posted by anyone (including her) about it on social media, or sent to you directly. Do not let her fake importance by phone or text on that day; have minimum text and no phone contact with her that day, as you should agree with her that it is not important and just another day.


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## anonfem

I don't have enough info to make a judgement here....like is money tight and this is an almost free vacay....do you guys almost never travel exotic places like this...like it's a once in a lifetime opportunity....scheduling a rental property is no easy task and dates often aren't easily available esp. if this is a freebie...If those things are true I would have zero problem with it. We would celebrate before or after...no big deal. In this house we celebrate everything but it's often never on the exact date...careers and life make this so...but that's the way we roll here and are used to that. Everyone is different I guess.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk


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## frusdil

WorkingOnMe said:


> She wants to go and not have me make her feel bad. I think on the actual day she's going to feel really bad being away.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So she should feel bad being away. Reaching your 25th wedding anniversary is a VERY BIG DEAL in this day and age. HUGE. Your spouse's wishes should come before everyone elses. You should be her number 1, you're her husband for god sake. Hawaii will be there next year for a girl's trip.



WorkingOnMe said:


> *I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings*. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tell her exactly what's in the bold. And if you're the bad guy, then so am I - I would be absolutely devo and furious in your shoes. If my husband put this scenario to me I would go OFF. My response would be something like "Are you freaking kidding me? How is this even a question???".


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## TRy

bandit.45 said:


> So you lied to her.....
> 
> Weak.


 The OP telling her that “it's only important to me if it is to her” is not a lie as this is how he truly feels. The truth is that if she does not think that celebrating it with him is important, and she would rather be doing something else, then forcing her to stay for a false celebration is pointless. The OP recognizes this reality and rightfully does not like it.


----------



## jld

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is true. At the time *I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice* to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk. You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.


This passive aggressiveness is not going to help you, WOM. Clear, direct communication would be more effective.

Did you tell her directly that you think she will feel bad if she is away on the day of your anniversary? What did she say to that?


----------



## commonsenseisn't

We have rendered numerous opinions on what the OP should have done in the original exchange between him and his wife. He can't go back in time to do this so I would like to see some more constructive advise on what to do from here on out. Where does the OP go from here? 

I think the OP would do well to examine his true feelings on the subject and make himself fully cognizant of what he really thinks and feels about the issue. I tend to sometimes not be very self aware of my deep feelings on some issues, especially when someone blindsides me like the OP's wife did him, so I imagine I'm not the only person who sometimes needs a little time and space to form a conclusion. 

Once the OP is confident on his stance on the issue I suggest he sit down with the wife and spell it out to her. It's easy to assign malignant intent to a thoughtless spouse, but sometimes such a spouse is just simply thoughtless in a given situation. 

Maybe he should suggest to her that they take advantage of the opportunity to strengthen the marriage by assigning more meaning to the anniversary? Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## sokillme

At least you know where her priorities are. 

I'm sorry I just don't get people like you who just take this stuff that causes you pain. I bet the reason why she does it is because you have a clear history of not saying how it makes you feel.

I would think most people me included would say, "um hell no you not going on vacation on or 25th wedding anniversary I really don't care if you meet the Queen of England, and what is wrong with you to think that this is a good idea!, you have made it very clear where your priorities lie." 

I don't get it. You can't have a good marriage without being honest, it just breads resentment, but I suspect this has been a pattern your whole relationship. Being honest and truthful about how you feel should be stated from day one. Why are you afraid of your wife?

Again I just don't get it.


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## Rubix Cubed

happy as a clam said:


> This doesn't exactly sound like a romantic 25th anniversary with the friend in tow. Especially if the women ditch him for some girl time on the beach .


 I agree , but it's going to be a lot less romantic with an ocean between them, or the divorce court isle if he can't get over her insensitivity. I won't even get into the passive aggressive potential of her ruining their anniversary so he'll ruin her vacation ,or at least enjoy himself in Hawaii. It's a crappy solution to a crappier problem.


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## sokillme

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


YOUR NOT A BAD GUY TO EXPECT YOUR WIFE TO WANT TO SPEND HER 25 WEDDING ANNIVERSARY WITH YOU!!!! How much has she browbeaten you down to get you to the point that you feel that way! Something is SO wrong that you feel guilty about this. I mean very wrong! Go ask 100 people how they would feel if their spouse told them they would rather go on vacation with their girlfriend then be with their husband on their 25th wedding anniversary, and 99 people would tell you how awful that was, and she must not really care too much about the marriage to just let it slide by. The 1 person who be fine with it would be your wife.


----------



## sokillme

commonsenseisn't said:


> We have rendered numerous opinions on what the OP should have done in the original exchange between him and his wife.


Your right so my next exchange would be "wife when you come back I think we should go to marriage counseling because something is very wrong that you think it's OK to go away on our 25th wedding anniversary."

If my wife asked me that (which she wouldn't because she would know I would look at her like she had 2 heads) but say she did my answer would be nope, and I am going to find us a counselor because how you could not know me well enough or just not have common sense enough, or just not care about our great milestone, says to me that we do not communicate at all. It also says that I have no idea who you are. 

OP you should be very insulted. **** I am insulted for you.


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## Wolf1974

Wow I remember the day I found out I was the bottom priority. Sorry man. 

Still 25 years of marriage is a nice accomplishment I will never see. I hope you at least get to go to dinner with friends or something .


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## Andy1001

sokillme said:


> Your right so my next exchange would be "wife when you come back I think we should go to marriage counseling because something is very wrong that you think it's OK to go away on our 25th wedding anniversary."
> 
> If my wife asked me that (which she wouldn't because she would know I would look at her like she had 2 heads) but say she did my answer would be nope, and I am going to find us a counselor because how you could not know me well enough or just not have common sense enough, or just not care about our great milestone, says to me that we do not communicate at all. It also says that I have no idea who you are.
> 
> OP you should be very insulted. **** I am insulted for you.


The biggest problem the op has is that both his wife and her friends have no problem trampling over his feelings,they book a vacation in a condo that one of them owns on the very week of their silver anniversary and tell him after the fact,which in my opinion is not a good sign.In plain English she doesn't give a **** about him or his feelings and she will do what she wants and make him feel guilty for trying to discuss it in a reasonable manner.WTF!
It has been suggested they compromise by another poster,what is the betting her idea of compromising is to do exactly what she was going to do in the first place.He needs to talk to someone he can trust and ask them to be brutally honest about what people think about his wife and his marriage because I think he is in for a shock.
I'm not married so anyone can tell me I don't have any business discussing someone else's.I do know when I or someone else is being disrespected and I would go as far as saying the op is not only being disrespected but emasculated as well.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Thought I would chime in with my tuppence worth …


The 25th wedding anniversary IS A BIG DEAL for many couples (especially these days where 50th wedding anniversaries are like gold dust).


You sometimes try and defend her and then renew your negative feelings at the same time. You need to decide how you really feel about this. She is either behaving badly or not! I sense that you really think that she is behaving badly but are dealing with this in a passive aggressive manner (not unusual - so would many of us).


Many posters here are trying to justify this behaviour as normal by saying some people don't really think of these events as important. There is both truth and false justification in this - the truth is that I agree, many spouses don't attach a lot of importance to these sort of events, not when compared to something else they want to do. The false justification is that she is not emotional or sentimental etc - people are not using the right word to describe her which is SELFISH when it comes to what she wants to do. No selflessness, no sacrifice etc. Your wife is SELFISH.


I also agree that the damage has already been done. I am finding it hard to believe that she hasn't committed other selfish acts during your relationship and that you haven't noticed these. You must understand who you are married to by now. So why bring up this particular instance ? If it were me, I would be thinking "oh, oh the Hawaii trip for her can only happen on our anniversary, our anniversary is toast!" - a question of knowing your spouse. You have already made her aware of the fact that you value the anniversary and you said she already knows and will "feel bad" on the day - but obviously not bad enough.


So in conclusion, I would say the real issue here is that you have put up with her for all these years - why ? This is surely not new behaviour for her. As to what I would do, I must admit that I agree with going dark or taking your own holiday, but I would do this in the context of this is the kind of person I am married to and have put up with this for many years. And I would do this ONLY if I realise that this is who she is and for some reason have chosen to stay. ELSE I would have a different discussion with her as to just how much she values your marriage and how selfish she is!


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## Decorum

.


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## Satya

Have you said anything to her yet?


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## manwithnoname

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is true. At the time I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. *And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk.* *You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.*


You lied so your _wife_ does not think you are a controlling jerk. Because you do not want to piss her off, for some reason. Try being blunt with _her_, at least it's honest.

It seems she is the leader in this marriage.:|


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## jld

manwithnoname said:


> You lied so your _wife_ does not think you are a controlling jerk. Because you do not want to piss her off, for some reason. Try being blunt with _her_, at least it's honest.
> 
> It seems she is the leader in this marriage.:|


I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive.

WOM seems to want her to take responsibility for his feelings--to intuit what they are, to do what is going to make him feel safe and loved, and to make it up to him if she does not.

And when she does not follow that script, he is hurt and resentful. And then he employs the passive aggression.


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## Andy1001

jld said:


> I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive.
> 
> WOM seems to want her to take responsibility for his feelings--to intuit what they are, to do what is going to make him feel safe and loved, and to make it up to him if she does not.
> 
> And when she does not follow that script, he is hurt and resentful. And then he employs the passive aggression.


This is your second description of sensitive.So what is a man supposed to do in this situation.If he expects his wife to acknowledge his feelings without spelling it out to her you see him as the weak link in the marriage.If he tells her straight out that he doesn't want her to go on this trip you also see him as weak.If he lets her go without any more discussion you see him as passive aggressive.Either way he is wrong in your estimation.
Your idea of compromising in this situation is that he stands back and let's his wife and her friends walk over him.Then apologise for being so sensitive as to suggest maybe his wife might like to celebrate their silver wedding anniversary together rather than thousands of miles apart.
You can't argue all sides at the same time,he is either weak or not,he is either sensitive or not.
You spelled out before in another thread how you would describe a sensitive man but you weren't clear on your opinion,I would genuinely like to know as I have been called an insensitive prick before.


----------



## syhoybenden

manfromlamancha said:


> Thought I would chime in with my tuppence worth …
> 
> 
> The 25th wedding anniversary IS A BIG DEAL for many couples (especially these days where 50th wedding anniversaries are like gold dust).
> 
> 
> You sometimes try and defend her and then renew your negative feelings at the same time. You need to decide how you really feel about this. She is either behaving badly or not! I sense that you really think that she is behaving badly but are dealing with this in a passive aggressive manner (not unusual - so would many of us).
> 
> 
> Many posters here are trying to justify this behaviour as normal by saying some people don't really think of these events as important. There is both truth and false justification in this - the truth is that I agree, many spouses don't attach a lot of importance to these sort of events, not when compared to something else they want to do. The false justification is that she is not emotional or sentimental etc - people are not using the right word to describe her which is SELFISH when it comes to what she wants to do. No selflessness, no sacrifice etc. Your wife is SELFISH.
> 
> 
> I also agree that the damage has already been done. I am finding it hard to believe that she hasn't committed other selfish acts during your relationship and that you haven't noticed these. You must understand who you are married to by now. So why bring up this particular instance ? If it were me, I would be thinking "oh, oh the Hawaii trip for her can only happen on our anniversary, our anniversary is toast!" - a question of knowing your spouse. You have already made her aware of the fact that you value the anniversary and you said she already knows and will "feel bad" on the day - but obviously not bad enough.
> 
> 
> So in conclusion, I would say the real issue here is that you have put up with her for all these years - why ? This is surely not new behaviour for her. As to what I would do, I must admit that I agree with going dark or taking your own holiday, but I would do this in the context of this is the kind of person I am married to and have put up with this for many years. And I would do this ONLY if I realise that this is who she is and for some reason have chosen to stay. ELSE I would have a different discussion with her as to just how much she values your marriage and how selfish she is!



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## jld

Andy1001 said:


> This is your second description of sensitive.So what is a man supposed to do in this situation.If he expects his wife to acknowledge his feelings without spelling it out to her you see him as the weak link in the marriage.If he tells her straight out that he doesn't want her to go on this trip you also see him as weak.If he lets her go without any more discussion you see him as passive aggressive.Either way he is wrong in your estimation.
> Your idea of compromising in this situation is that he stands back and let's his wife and her friends walk over him.Then apologise for being so sensitive as to suggest maybe his wife might like to celebrate their silver wedding anniversary together rather than thousands of miles apart.
> You can't argue all sides at the same time,he is either weak or not,he is either sensitive or not.
> You spelled out before in another thread how you would describe a sensitive man but you weren't clear on your opinion,I would genuinely like to know as I have been called an insensitive prick before.


I don't think you seem insensitive. (I do think you have a fear of being "walked on," however.) I guess I would have to know the context of that remark, though.

I think you are making a lot of claims here that are not backed up by anything I have written. But please feel free to provide quotes from me if you disagree, and we can discuss.

I have consistently said that he needs to tell her exactly how he feels, and to be open to her feelings, too. We do not know the entirety of their marriage. They do. 

I think they can work this out. And it starts with clear, direct communication.


----------



## Malaise

If a man has to tell his wife that she shouldn't make plans, which don't include him, on their 25th anniversary.......


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> I don't think you seem insensitive. (I do think you have a fear of being "walked on," however.) I guess I would have to know the context of that remark, though.
> 
> I think you are making a lot of claims here that are not backed up by anything I have written. But please feel free to provide quotes from me if you disagree, and we can discuss.
> 
> I have consistently said that he needs to tell her exactly how he feels, and to be open to her feelings, too. We do not know the entirety of their marriage. They do.
> 
> I think they can work this out. And it starts with clear, direct communication.


In the thread Alpha v Beta men,post 127 you gave your two descriptions of sensitive men.
1.Men who are easily hurt,who look for women to soothe and comfortable them and get resentful if it doesn't happen.
2.Men who are sensitive to the feelings of others but do not take offence easily themselves.
I can't link the post on an iPad, sorry.


----------



## chillymorn69

I don't think she very vested in your marriage.

she just don't care enough to even celebrate 25 yrs together. she prioritizes her friend more than her husband. 

on your 50th maybe she will go to bingo with her friends instead of celebrating and rejoicing the long happy marriage she had with you.

is she on the spectrum of autism/Aspergers?


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> In the thread Alpha v Beta men,post 127 you gave your two descriptions of sensitive men.
> 1.Men who are easily hurt,who look for women to soothe and comfortable them and get resentful if it doesn't happen.
> 2.Men who are sensitive to the feelings of others but do not take offence easily themselves.
> I can't link the post on an iPad, sorry.


Yes, I remember this. It could be said about women, too, btw.

These are simply two different interpretations of the word "sensitive." One means sensitive to oneself, and the other means sensitive to others.

The person who is sensitive to his or her own feelings first and foremost is likely the emotional dependent in the relationship. He or she often looks to the partner to soothe their hurt feelings, and possibly even intuit them.

When they are soothed and nurtured, they usually calm down and may be able to be open to the feelings of their partner, too. But without first being soothed by the partner, they may never feel safe enough to hear their partner's side of things. They need acknowledgement of their feelings first.

The person who is sensitive to others, without taking offense easily, is usually the emotional leader in the relationship. This person, male or female, is more easily able to hear a partner's hurt and soothe them without needing it right away themselves. They acknowledge the hurt feelings of the partner, and may explain why they did what they did. 

Once the emotional leader has explained, the dependent often realizes that the action taken that hurt him or her was not done with malice. Hearing that there was no intention to cause pain is usually very healing in itself. The dependent wants to feel loved and safe with his or her partner. Hearing the perspective of the partner, and getting an apology, if appropriate, usually accomplishes that. 

Andy, does this answer your question?


----------



## Taxman

The OP is infuriating a lot of us, as we know that what his wife is doing is dead wrong. He knows it, but for some unknown reason, he does not want to make her feel "bad" about being selfish. Unfortunately, he is seeing this from the wrong angle, he does not want to see this as his wife not being "invested" in the marriage, so he is minimizing the impact of what she wants to do. I believe that if she does go to Hawaii, this will fester like a deep wound, and this will come back on her in some way.

We have urged him to not let her do this, we have given him every reason. The best possible reason, SHE IS HIS GODDAMNED WIFE, FFS! SHE SHOULD RESPECT HIM ENOUGH TO BE WITH HIM ON THEIR ANNIVERSARY. 

One would understand a separation on an anniversary due to, a death in the family, an urgent work matter, illness, act of god, but not "I wanna go away with my girlfriend, just because." She has little respect for him, AND HE LETS HER. Sorry, she needs a slap upside the head!


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> Yes, I remember this. It could be said about women, too, btw.
> 
> These are simply two different interpretations of the word "sensitive." One means sensitive to oneself, and the other means sensitive to others.
> 
> The person who is sensitive to his or her own feelings first and foremost is likely the emotional dependent in the relationship. He or she often looks to the partner to soothe their hurt feelings, and possibly even intuit them.
> 
> When they are soothed and nurtured, they usually calm down and may be able to be open to the feelings of their partner, too. But without first being soothed by the partner, they may never feel safe enough to hear their partner's side of things. They need acknowledgement of their feelings first.
> 
> The person who is sensitive to others, without taking offense easily, is usually the emotional leader in the relationship. This person, male or female, is more easily able to hear a partner's hurt and soothe them without needing it right away themselves. They acknowledge the hurt feelings of the partner, and may explain why they did what they did.
> 
> Once the emotional leader has explained, the dependent often realizes that the action taken that hurt him or her was not done with malice. Hearing that there was no intention to cause pain is usually very healing in itself. The dependent wants to feel loved and safe with his or her partner. Hearing the perspective of the partner, and getting an apology, if appropriate, usually accomplishes that.
> 
> Andy, does this answer your question?


I think I need to lie down in a dark room.
With someone expensive.
I'm joking 🙃


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> I think I need to lie down in a dark room.
> With someone expensive.
> I'm joking 🙃


Sorry, I do not understand your response to my post.


----------



## jld

Taxman said:


> The OP is infuriating a lot of us, as we know that what his wife is doing is dead wrong. He knows it, but for some unknown reason, he does not want to make her feel "bad" about being selfish. Unfortunately, he is seeing this from the wrong angle, he does not want to see this as his wife not being "invested" in the marriage, so he is minimizing the impact of what she wants to do. I believe that if she does go to Hawaii, this will fester like a deep wound, and this will come back on her in some way.
> 
> We have urged him to not let her do this, we have given him every reason. The best possible reason, SHE IS HIS GODDAMNED WIFE, FFS! SHE SHOULD RESPECT HIM ENOUGH TO BE WITH HIM ON THEIR ANNIVERSARY.
> 
> One would understand a separation on an anniversary due to, a death in the family, an urgent work matter, illness, act of god, but not "I wanna go away with my girlfriend, just because." She has little respect for him, AND HE LETS HER. Sorry, *she needs a slap upside the head*!


That would not improve anything, and would likely make everything worse.

What they need is more clear and direct communication. That is what will help them figure this out.

WOM, have you two ever had professional counseling? 

That might be something to consider if you two are not able to come to a peaceful resolution on your own.


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> Sorry, I do not understand your response to my post.


Ditto


----------



## jld

Andy1001 said:


> Ditto


I spent a lot of time writing that out, Andy. You could at least tell me what you do not understand, and how it relates to this thread.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Naw, I'm not infuriated I just see his problem. He's passive aggressive and placates his wife at his own expense. He just gave the example of "well, I traveled by myself blah blah blah FOR BUSINESS." This is called false equivalence, passive aggressive people love to use it to be silently angry and count grievances. Traveling for business is not equal to an anniversary celebration, whether it is number 25 or number 3. No, it just is not. The wife made a choice knowing FULL WELL this is important to him and SAID as much. Then she acted more asinine by being JUST AS PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE and putting the blame on him.


----------



## Andy1001

jld said:


> I spent a lot of time writing that out, Andy. You could at least tell me what you do not understand, and how it relates to this thread.


My question was do you consider sensitivity a positive or negative trait.But because you have two completely different interpretations of the word then the question can't be answered without contradicting yourself.
And in any case the op refuses to be honest with his wife either through fear or just accepting his opinion won't count so the point is moot anyway.


----------



## Livvie

jld said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the thread Alpha v Beta men,post 127 you gave your two descriptions of sensitive men.
> 1.Men who are easily hurt,who look for women to soothe and comfortable them and get resentful if it doesn't happen.
> 2.Men who are sensitive to the feelings of others but do not take offence easily themselves.
> I can't link the post on an iPad, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I remember this. It could be said about women, too, btw.
> 
> These are simply two different interpretations of the word "sensitive." One means sensitive to oneself, and the other means sensitive to others.
> 
> The person who is sensitive to his or her own feelings first and foremost is likely the emotional dependent in the relationship. He or she often looks to the partner to soothe their hurt feelings, and possibly even intuit them.
> 
> When they are soothed and nurtured, they usually calm down and may be able to be open to the feelings of their partner, too. But without first being soothed by the partner, they may never feel safe enough to hear their partner's side of things. They need acknowledgement of their feelings first.
> 
> The person who is sensitive to others, without taking offense easily, is usually the emotional leader in the relationship. This person, male or female, is more easily able to hear a partner's hurt and soothe them without needing it right away themselves. They acknowledge the hurt feelings of the partner, and may explain why they did what they did.
> 
> Once the emotional leader has explained, the dependent often realizes that the action taken that hurt him or her was not done with malice. Hearing that there was no intention to cause pain is usually very healing in itself. The dependent wants to feel loved and safe with his or her partner. Hearing the perspective of the partner, and getting an apology, if appropriate, usually accomplishes that.
> 
> Andy, does this answer your question?
Click to expand...

JLD I appreciate this detail and explanation, for my own personal healing (as I was with a man who was the emotional dependent and was abusive to me when feeling hurt...over nothing).


----------



## sokillme

jld said:


> I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive..


Therefore subtlety implying that he is emotionally weak because he wants to spend time with his wife on his 25 wedding anniversary. 

She seems like an insensitive horses ass. You would be the first person to call our a man if he did it. This is just your usual double standard based on Misandry. It's really gross.


----------



## sokillme

Livvie said:


> JLD I appreciate this detail and explanation, for my own personal healing (as I was with a man who was the emotional dependent and was abusive to me when feeling hurt...over nothing).


And his wife blowing off their 25th wedding anniversary is nothing? How is this applicable to this situation?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

commonsenseisn't said:


> We have rendered numerous opinions on what the OP should have done in the original exchange between him and his wife. He can't go back in time to do this so I would like to see some more constructive advise on what to do from here on out. Where does the OP go from here?
> 
> I think the OP would do well to examine his true feelings on the subject and make himself fully cognizant of what he really thinks and feels about the issue. I tend to sometimes not be very self aware of my deep feelings on some issues, especially when someone blindsides me like the OP's wife did him, so I imagine I'm not the only person who sometimes needs a little time and space to form a conclusion.
> 
> Once the OP is confident on his stance on the issue I suggest he sit down with the wife and spell it out to her. It's easy to assign malignant intent to a thoughtless spouse, but sometimes such a spouse is just simply thoughtless in a given situation.
> 
> Maybe he should suggest to her that they take advantage of the opportunity to strengthen the marriage by assigning more meaning to the anniversary? Anyone got any ideas?


We must be reading different threads.




meson said:


> You should speak to your wife about so that she knows your feelings. Don't hide them. Another thing is to compromise.
> 
> Why don't you go to Hawaii as well. You can rent a nice place and then she and you can be together your your anniversary. She can then also spend some days with her friend.
> 
> Don't do the passive aggressive maneuver of going dark.





Abc123wife said:


> If these are good friends, why not approach them and ask if just your wife and you go use their condo for the week of your 25th Anniversary? That would be a wonderful gift to you and your wife. Your wife can plan some other week at a later time to get together with her friend. She can't ever go back and undo abandoning her husband on this big milestone anniversary. You already have resentment (for good reason), and she will feel guilt once all the congratulations start rolling in on the big anniversary date as she sits having a grand time with her friend in a romantic location perfect for the celebration of a 25th anniversary. Too bad the only thing missing will be her husband!





Buddy400 said:


> Tough situation.
> 
> But, you need to let her know that this bothers you but that she is not allowed to change her plans (the damage is already done). Tell her that you're not sure what, if anything you might do about it.
> 
> You're not trying to "solve" the problem, you're just letting her know that there is one. You really don't have any solutions, but she should know how you feel.





SunCMars said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> You had 24 Anniversaries before this one. And you will have 24 Anniversaries after.
> 
> Celebrate, before her trip, as she suggested.
> 
> Let her know that you love her on all the other days of the year, not just on your Anniversary.


There is a bunch of constructive advice in this thread. These are just a few which stood out to me. He skips past it, doesn't really comment on it and people have delved into why he is being passive aggressive. I'll speak for myself. I am more interested in his thinking process which allows him to placate his wife at his own misery. Figure this out and he can go back to read all of the constructive advice given and see if it works for him.


----------



## Livvie

sokillme said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> JLD I appreciate this detail and explanation, for my own personal healing (as I was with a man who was the emotional dependent and was abusive to me when feeling hurt...over nothing).
> 
> 
> 
> And his wife blowing off their 25th wedding anniversary is nothing? How is this applicable to this situation?
Click to expand...

Uhhhh I never ever said a wife blowing off an anniversary is nothing. In the post of mine you quoted, I didn't mention anniversary or the OPs situation at all, so please don't insinuate that I did.


----------



## Steve1000

bandit.45 said:


> She cares more about her girlfriend than she does you or the marriage. This is what her actions say. And if her girlfriend were a quality person, she would not be asking your wife to be away from you on such an important milestone.
> 
> Grab your cards and hit Vegas. Spend tons and have fun. To hell with her.


I agree except for one thing. Change Vegas to Phuket.


----------



## SunCMars

Here is the thing I took away from her desire to go to Hawaii.

I am assuming that OP is not wealthy, that a Hawaiian trip is very expensive for him.

I am assuming that this will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for his wife to enjoy.

I want my significant others to enjoy their brief stay on Earth. If I have to sacrifice, now and then, I would do this. 

The key to all of this is reciprocity. If she were equally generous and magnanimous with me....this trip would work for me! 

But, I would do a 25th party before.


----------



## Livvie

SunCMars said:


> Here is the thing I took away from her desire to go to Hawaii.
> 
> I am assuming that OP is not wealthy, that a Hawaiian trip is very expensive for him.
> 
> I am assuming that this will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for his wife to enjoy.
> 
> I want my significant others to enjoy their brief stay on Earth. If I have to sacrifice, now and then, I would do this.
> 
> The key to all of this is reciprocity. If she were equally generous and magnanimous with me....this trip would work for me!
> 
> But, I would do a 25th party before.


First is all, what's with the plain language??

I believe someone up thread mentioned that finances are NOT an issue here.


----------



## Andy1001

SunCMars said:


> Here is the thing I took away from her desire to go to Hawaii.
> 
> I am assuming that OP is not wealthy, that a Hawaiian trip is very expensive for him.
> 
> I am assuming that this will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for his wife to enjoy.
> 
> I want my significant others to enjoy their brief stay on Earth. If I have to sacrifice, now and then, I would do this.
> 
> The key to all of this is reciprocity. If she were equally generous and magnanimous with me....this trip would work for me!
> 
> But, I would do a 25th party before.


Who are you and what have you done with @SunCMars


----------



## sokillme

Livvie said:


> Uhhhh I never ever said a wife blowing off an anniversary is nothing. In the post of mine you quoted, I didn't mention anniversary or the OPs situation at all, so please don't insinuate that I did.


OK you're right you didn't. In this case though his problem is not being honest about his feelings, not that he has the feelings.


----------



## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> Who are you and what have you done with @SunCMars


Hmmm.

I guess they do like me...the older version...at least some.

I suspect this is an outcome of poor preparation and not doing my homework. :surprise:

I will get back to you...bank on it :grin2:


----------



## Livvie

sokillme said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhh I never ever said a wife blowing off an anniversary is nothing. In the post of mine you quoted, I didn't mention anniversary or the OPs situation at all, so please don't insinuate that I did.
> 
> 
> 
> OK you're right you didn't. In this case though his problem is not being honest about his feelings, not that he has the feelings.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think his feelings are completely in range of normal, in fact not even as negative as many others would have.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Livvie said:


> I agree. I think his feelings are completely in range of normal, in fact not even as negative as many others would have.


I think more people have a negative reaction to what he wants to do, not how he feels. I think he has every right to be hurt and angry because she is dismissive of what he likes, but he better have her special days on point. 

I just do not like the passive aggressive victim hood he is displaying. 
So what if it is a good deal? 
So what if he is okay with her traveling alone with a female friend? 
So what if he trusts her? 
So what if he is okay with her having time to herself away from husband and kids?
All of this is beside the point. 

One day a year and SHE KNOWS it is special to him. I do not like the FACT she knows and then he backed off because he didn't want to be the bad guy. I've been the bad guy before and have never cared. I'm very simple and if you can't plan around the 1-2 days a year I enjoy something is wrong.


----------



## Mr. Nail

So this year is my 30th. Over the past 2 years there have been plenty of passive aggressive thoughts about the big milestone. Some of them included filing that day or before it. Anyway We are past all of that and have booked our 30th which is August 22 (yes the day after eclipse) We are actually going Saturday - Sunday - Monday. We are each missing one day of work. And I will be back at work on the actual anniversary. we will probably hotel on the way Saturday night then check into the camp Sunday, Drive home Monday afternoon. Now before you cry foul on camping for anniversary, we have spent several of our anniversaries at this very camp. We planned this vacation together, and we are both very happy that the camp decided to hold this event. 
I think, to me, the important thing is that it is something we planned together to do together. The date is close enough. (she is the keeper of days, I grew up with a dad who hated crowds so I spent a lot of holidays at home) I think Working on Me would be best served by planning a shared event with Mrs. WOM rather than feeling resentment over the Hawaii trip. 
And one other thing Mrs Nail and I both do things we have put off but wanted to do when the other is unavailable. Best time to do it.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is true. At the time I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk. You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.


What you did was "sh*t test" her....like a woman does a man... 

Telling her that her unwillingness to stay with you on your silver anniversary is hurtful is not being controlling. It is being honest. What you did there was totally passive aggressive, because now you are going to be pissed at her about it and hold a grudge and all it is doing is causing more division down the road.


----------



## bandit.45

TRy said:


> The OP telling her that “it's only important to me if it is to her” is not a lie as this is how he truly feels. The truth is that if she does not think that celebrating it with him is important, and she would rather be doing something else, then forcing her to stay for a false celebration is pointless. The OP recognizes this reality and rightfully does not like it.


If it isn't important to him, then why did he start this thread? It obviously is important to him, and he should tell her so.


----------



## bandit.45

jld said:


> This passive aggressiveness is not going to help you, WOM. Clear, direct communication would be more effective.
> 
> Did you tell her directly that you think she will feel bad if she is away on the day of your anniversary? What did she say to that?


For the first time in a long time we agree jld.


----------



## jld

bandit.45 said:


> For the first time in a long time we agree jld.


I still like you, bandit. Even though you are so often wrong.


----------



## bandit.45

jld said:


> I agree. She seems like the emotionally stronger person--more independent, less reactive.
> 
> WOM seems to want her to take responsibility for his feelings--to intuit what they are, to do what is going to make him feel safe and loved, and to make it up to him if she does not.
> 
> And when she does not follow that script, he is hurt and resentful. And then he employs the passive aggression.


This is what is referred to as a "covert contract". It is what nice guys do.


----------



## jld

bandit.45 said:


> This is what is referred to as a "covert contract". It is what nice guys do.


It sure is not very "nice."


----------



## bandit.45

SunCMars said:


> Here is the thing I took away from her desire to go to Hawaii.
> 
> I am assuming that OP is not wealthy, that a Hawaiian trip is very expensive for him.
> 
> I am assuming that this will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for his wife to enjoy.
> 
> I want my significant others to enjoy their brief stay on Earth. If I have to sacrifice, now and then, I would do this.
> 
> The key to all of this is reciprocity. If she were equally generous and magnanimous with me....this trip would work for me!
> 
> But, I would do a 25th party before.


If it were me, my feeling would be that my marriage is far more valuable than a trip to Hawaii. And why didn't she ask him to come along? 

(By the way...I've been to Hawaii. To be honest, it was disappointing. Sorry Ikkaika.)


----------



## bandit.45

jld said:


> It sure is not very "nice."


"Nice guys" are not "nice". They are manipulative.


----------



## bandit.45

OP, why didn't your wife invite you, or at least see if her GF had room for both of you? Are you angry that she didn't even consider you when they made these plans? Or did they tell her you could come and she decided she didn't want you coming? Have you asked her that?


----------



## CharlieParker

bandit.45 said:


> OP, why didn't your wife invite you, or at least see if her GF had room for both of you? Are you angry that she didn't even consider you when they made these plans? Or did they tell her you could come and she decided she didn't want you coming? Have you asked her that?


He indicated it was a planned girls only trip, which he previously knew was coming and was OK with. But when the plans were firmed up the date became the issue.


----------



## jb02157

Taxman said:


> My first response to my wife would be, "Thank you, so very much for respecting me and our marriage. I think I will go out on our 25th anniversary, with my new girlfriend, (insert name here). Enjoy Hawaii, and hopefully, your next husband will make it to 25 years, so that you can respect him just as much."
> 
> In short, I'd be absolutely livid. Dream vacation notwithstanding. She wants to go, tell her not to bother coming back.


I would be pissed!! You really, really need to tell her how terribly selfish and belittling this is. Anything short of her not going off somewhere else with one of her friends is not acceptable, and not acceptable for just you. I would make her tell her friend that's it's HER decision not to be there because her 25th anniversary is more important.


----------



## Taxman

I cannot fathom anyone who would be ok with this disrespect. OP, show this and the responses to your wife. I bet she has no idea that she is extremely selfish, and really gives not too much consideration to you and your feelings. Any person not on the autism spectrum would be able at minimum to put themselves in your shoes, and see that the 25th means something to you. It obviously means very little to your wife, maybe there isn't anything worth celebrating. Ask her if she thinks your marriage is worth celebrating, because right now, from where the majority stands here, all she is saying is: I do not care about my husband or his feelings. Dangerous position.


----------



## Roselyn

OP, career woman here, 59 years old, & 37 years married (first time for the both of us). My husband and I have never missed our anniversary. It is very important for both of us to be together at this time to celebrate. I remembered by 25th year anniversary and with all the photos to remind us of the details, down to the cake, flowers, & clothes that we wore on that special day. No other person is more important to me than my husband. Your wife does not rate you as no. 1. Sorry to point this out to you!


----------



## bandit.45

CharlieParker said:


> He indicated it was a planned girls only trip, which he previously knew was coming and was OK with. But when the plans were firmed up the date became the issue.


 The girlfriend could have, if she had given a crap, asked told his wife he would be welcome to come along. He could have gone deep sea fishing or something while they went out and did girly things.


----------



## bandit.45

I don't know. I guess I must have grown up on another planet. I have never known any women in my family or outside my family who would have glossed over a 25th Anniversary. In fact, any one of my uncles or grandfathers would have been DOA at the hospital if they ignored or forgotten a 25th... It would have been unthinkable. All the women I knew growing up, and most women who I consider friends now, would go ballistic if their husbands ignored such an important anniversary. Homicidal....

Is the OP's wife an aberration or is this becoming more and more the norm with women?


----------



## Taxman

bandit.45 said:


> Is the OP's wife an aberration or is this becoming more and more the norm with women?


I reiterate my point, either she is oblivious to his feelings, or she does not give a f**k. Either way, if this is her reaction to the 25th, the likelihood of a 26th would be highly doubtful. I bet OP would not think of showing our responses to her. It would probably be met with, "Meh!"


----------



## Mr. Nail

So I'm sitting here thinking that I don't remember my 25th Ann. so I texted my Daughter and asked what was going on that year. I had Daughters 2 and 3 (the Irish twins) bounce back from university. Son #4 was just entering High School. Not sure where Daughter #1 was but she might have been getting married that year. DD2 remembers that we went out to dinner and stayed over night. I can't remember where we stayed. I do vaguely remember that we said we were eloping to get away from the kids. Kind of lackluster I guess. I think I'll remember 30 better because the marriage is in a better place now. I do remember what my parents did for their 25th. They went to my little brothers wedding. 

25 years is quite an accomplishment these days. It certainly deserves a celebration. So few of us can think past 10 years into the future. I know when I got married I was having trouble with 3. We've made it to 30 and even if it has not always been a smooth road we got through it. Over the years between 25 and 30 we have been transitioning to empty nest. We only have one at home now. The change was not easy. We are still involved in the lives of our kids but we cook and clean for 2 now. Working on me is looking at these kind of things in the next 5. This is probably not a good time to throw a fit. Better to move the date of the celebration.


----------



## sokillme

For everyone who is talking about "what if she resented not being able to go", What about OP resenting that she blew of probably one of the most important milestones in their marriage? Should she be worried that he will resent it? Or is his feeling not valid? Honestly I don't think she cares. 

Frankly I can't imagine my wife or I going on a trip like Hawaii with friends and not bringing the other along? Do many married couples do week long vacations without their SO? I could see weekend trips and stuff? Is this like a normal thing? I even asked her about this once because of the last time I saw one of these vacations talked about on here, here response was (hell no). I just laughed and agreed.


----------



## Wolf1974

bandit.45 said:


> I don't know. I guess I must have grown up on another planet. I have never known *any women in my family or outside my family who would have glossed over a 25th Anniversary*. In fact, any one of my uncles or grandfathers would have been DOA at the hospital if they ignored or forgotten a 25th... It would have been unthinkable. All the women I knew growing up, and most women who I consider friends now, would go ballistic if their husbands ignored such an important anniversary. Homicidal....
> 
> Is the OP's wife an aberration or is this becoming more and more the norm with women?


they don't unless they just don't care anymore. Sorry to say but the OP has bigger problems than this anniversary.


----------



## MarriedTex

As stated by others, you messed up by not reacting in a genuine manner out of the gate.

You need to reverse this. Tell Mrs. WOM that "I was so flustered, surprised when you asked me that question, that I wasn't ready to share my honest thoughts. Here's what I really think:"

Then follow with "The biggest disappointment is not that you will be away on our 25th anniversary. It's that you thought it would be a good idea in the first place. You changed my perspective simply by asking the question. The thought never crossed my mind to be with anyone but you on our anniversary. Now that I realize that you don't feel the same way, having you on an island 5,000 miles away seems to be just about right. "

Her question speaks volumes. If you're not her first priority on your 25th anniversary, it's hard to imagine many times that you will be her first priority. At this point, she should not be given the privelege of being with you on your 25th anniversary. You pretty much draw a line in the sand. If she decides to ditch the trip, plan one for yourself on the day. She's made her preferences clear. You don't want anybody hanging around you out of guilt. She can't stuff this genie back in the bottle. She's already messed up the anniversary. She might as well go on the Hawaii trip. The sentiments behind any 25th anniversary celebration are gone.


----------



## Diana7

Its hard to imagine that after 25 years she didn't have clue that you would be upset by this. Just because she isn't that bothered by such things, surely she knows you well enough to know that to you they are important?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Everyone....the fault is not with the wife now...it is with OP, he had the opportunity to express himself with honesty and he wimped out...he will placate her, he will keep his mouth shut, he will suppress it and it will come back in passive aggressive behavior in the future, and when he blows up it will be after the event over something dumb and she will not see it coming and she will not make the correlation. I say this once again...you tell her we celebrate at the end of August or not at all....and if she still wants to leave then let her leave but make it clear you are not going to celebrate their wedding anniversary. this is where you get to stand your ground. don't get mad, just state a fact....and that includes no gifts no cards.


----------



## Andy1001

Diana7 said:


> Its hard to imagine that after 25 years she didn't have clue that you would be upset by this. Just because she isn't that bothered by such things, surely she knows you well enough to know that to you they are important?


She knows all right.
She just doesn't care.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Wolf1974 said:


> they don't unless they just don't care anymore. Sorry to say but the OP has bigger problems than this anniversary.


QFT

OP, What are you going to do about this? I think you have two issues to address: one is the actual anniversary and the other is the state of your relationship that allowed your wife to do this. Are you going to go with the status quo, or are you going to rock the boat?


----------



## FrenchFry

bandit.45 said:


> I don't know. I guess I must have grown up on another planet. I have never known any women in my family or outside my family who would have glossed over a 25th Anniversary. In fact, any one of my uncles or grandfathers would have been DOA at the hospital if they ignored or forgotten a 25th... It would have been unthinkable. All the women I knew growing up, and most women who I consider friends now, would go ballistic if their husbands ignored such an important anniversary. Homicidal....
> 
> Is the OP's wife an aberration or is this becoming more and more the norm with women?


I don't know about the norm...

but I cannot tell you without looking at my marriage certificate the exact date of my marriage. I can tell you the approximate week and thankfully it falls close to a major holiday so I usually have a heads up. I also...don't know the exact amount of years I've been married. It's either 9 or 10. I don't think it's 8. My husband will remind me soon though, which is nice.

Which has nothing to do with the OP.
@WorkingOnMe, you are not a bad guy for having feelings. I don't know if that has been directly said yet but--you aren't. It sucks that your wife is hurting you and what sucks even harder is you don't feel like you can tell her that directly. I'm not into revenge as a way of solving anything but I don't think you should sugar coat anything. You are hurt by her actions and it's okay to let that be known.

Like I said I don't really know the dates of my marriage. I do know the feelings though and if I got a "whap" on the head that "HEY. THIS IS OUR ANNIVERSARY AND YOU ARE BEING A **** BY BLOWING IT OFF," I would immediately change any plans I made. 

It might be too late to change plans, it's never too late to get real.


----------



## Buddy400

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm trying to decide what to say to her. I resent that I have to choose between being the bad guy or burying my feelings. She told me she knows it's important to me. I told her it's only important to me if it is to her. Then she said we can celebrate before or after.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then that's exactly what you say.

"You knew that our 25th is important to me, yet you asked about the Hawaii trip anyway. I resent being put in a position of having to choose between being the bad guy who doesn't let you go to Hawaii and burying my feelings. So, I want you to go on the trip and I'm not going to bury my feelings."

When she's asks you what you are going to do about it, say "I don't know".


----------



## Buddy400

Diana7 said:


> Its hard to imagine that after 25 years she didn't have clue that you would be upset by this Just because she isn't that bothered by such things, surely she knows you well enough to know that to you they are important?


Some people don't care much about anniversaries (like me). But, my wife cares about anniversaries and I care about her; so I care about anniversaries. It's one of those "things that show that you care about your spouse's happiness" that I think are the key to a good marriage.


----------



## Anon Pink

"I need to revisit this Hawaii trip because I kind of felt blind sided and wasn't really prepared for what you were communicating to me.... I would never have even considered taking a guys vacation during our 25th anniversary and frankly it hurts and pisses me off that you not only considered it but you set me up to look like the chump if I said no. And that's why I didn't say no. The fact that you want to go away during our 25th tells me you don't value the achievements we've made together to get to 25 years. Whether you go or not is fully on you and I'll be fine with whatever decision you make. That's all I wanted to tell you."

And then she'll say, "so you don't want me to go?"

And you repeat, word for word, what you (me actually) just said.

The decision is her, as are the consequences.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Buddy400 said:


> Some people don't care much about anniversaries (like me). But, my wife cares about anniversaries and I care about her; so I care about anniversaries. It's one of those "things that show that you care about your spouse's happiness" that I think are the key to a good marriage.


I dislike all celebrations. Nope, no FOO issues we celebrated birthdays and all of the stuff. I just never cared for them except when I was really young. My wife is nearly the opposite so, while she knows I cannot stand the corporate ones we celebrate the milestones. Yes, this was a discussion we had when we were dating. Regardless of how I feel I'd NEVER schedule anything on those days, it has come up before, unless the conflict came from her side.


----------



## Satya

Satya said:


> Have you said anything to her yet?


----------



## manwithnoname

The fact that the trip falls during their 25th anniversary is icing on the cake. 

Getting informed, by text, that your spouse is going on a trip without you, without discussion, is unacceptable behaviour.

Period.


----------



## heartsbeating

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is true. At the time I thought there was enough sarcasm in my voice to be clear I wasn't cool with it, but people here what they want to here. And ya, I lied to not look like a controlling jerk. You may have noticed that I can come off a little blunt if I don't actively keep myself in check.


Come off a little blunt then if that's how you can communicate honestly.


----------



## aine

WorkingOnMe said:


> Last weekend we had a nice little getaway. We took a couple ferries and went to the San Juan islands to a bed and breakfast, toured around on the motorcycle and had a great time. Just a Mother's Day weekend trip. When we got back, I had to run an errand. While I was gone I received a text from my wife. My wife has been wanting to go to Hawaii with her girlfriend who recently bought a condo there. I'm fine with that. She's gone on a separate vacation several times over the years and I don't have an issue with that. I do my own thing sometimes too.
> 
> Anyway, this text said that her friend can only get away from the 25th of August to September 2nd. So, she's going to Hawaii. *Our 25th anniversary is on the 29th. I'm not exactly happy about this. She asked me if I minded, which I felt was her way of shifting the issue to me rather than owning her decision to skip this milestone of ours. I basically said she can do whatever she wants. She tried to say she knows it's important to me and that we can celebrate before or after her trip. I said it's only important to me to the extent it's important to her and if she want's to go she can.*
> 
> I have to say, I've been preoccupied since that conversation with passive aggressive thoughts. Like going dark once she leaves. Like ignoring the inevitable FB posts about 25 years blah blah blah. Like maybe booking my own trip while she's gone and just disappearing for a while. I don't know, is the 25th just not that important an anniversary? Am I overthinking it? I don't like that she tried to put me in the position of either being ok with being disrespected or being the bad guy. I'm not going to complain to her. Like I said, she can do what she wants. I guess this is just another example of how we prioritize different things.


This is exactly what causes so much problems in marriages (including my own)

1. your wife is either genuinely not as interested in the anniversary as you are or is playing a game to see if you will take the lead and tell her not to go

2. You are also playing a game in expecting her to make the decision - but in your favour

3. This is two people playing passive aggressive games for whatever reason, maybe you don't want to get hurt, reveal too much, be the first to show your love/affection, whatever. However, this is how marriages end up because of lack of honesty and being true to oneself.

4. Workingonme, if you felt so strongly, why couldn't you tell her, I really do not want you to go, I want you here. Be a man and say it like it is, instead you have not and now are resentful.

This doesn't make anyone happy. I bet your wife is also not happy but you chose not to take the lead.
In fact here on TAM, I read so much about women not being direct and telling their husbands exactly what they need, how are you being different? Be direct, tell her what you need.

if she refuses, then that is entirely a different thing, and you know exactly where you stand.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Anon Pink said:


> "I need to revisit this Hawaii trip because I kind of felt blind sided and wasn't really prepared for what you were communicating to me.... I would never have even considered taking a guys vacation during our 25th anniversary and frankly it hurts and pisses me off that you not only considered it but you set me up to look like the chump if I said no. And that's why I didn't say no. The fact that you want to go away during our 25th tells me you don't value the achievements we've made together to get to 25 years. Whether you go or not is fully on you and I'll be fine with whatever decision you make. That's all I wanted to tell you."
> 
> And then she'll say, "so you don't want me to go?"
> 
> And you repeat, word for word, what you (me actually) just said.
> 
> The decision is her, as are the consequences.


So I said this to her this morning. Well mostly anyway.....not word for word. Her response? "Oh, I already changed the dates so I would be home for our anniversary. I guess I forgot to tell you, but I told her I had to be home before then." She says that after we talked on Sunday she was bothered about the dates so she texted her friend right back saying she had to be back by the 29th. But she never got back to me to let me know. So ya, communication is definitely an issue.


----------



## sokillme

WorkingOnMe said:


> So I said this to her this morning. Well mostly anyway.....not word for word. Her response? "Oh, I already changed the dates so I would be home for our anniversary. I guess I forgot to tell you, but I told her I had to be home before then." She says that after we talked on Sunday she was bothered about the dates so she texted her friend right back saying she had to be back by the 29th. But she never got back to me to let me know. So ya, communication is definitely an issue.


Well that is good news. My only caution is that something is wrong when you are afraid to tell your own wife when your feelings are hurt, when it comes to something like this. We are not talking about her yelling at you for not taking out the garbage. You should figure out why that is. It would do both of you good. Women like assertive men.


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## manwithnoname

Sounds like a massive **** test. Is she always trying to press your buttons?


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## bandit.45

manwithnoname said:


> Sounds like a massive **** test. Is she always trying to press your buttons?


Yeah...I'm wondering that too...


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## Anon Pink

WorkingOnMe said:


> So I said this to her this morning. Well mostly anyway.....not word for word. Her response? "Oh, I already changed the dates so I would be home for our anniversary. I guess I forgot to tell you, but I told her I had to be home before then." She says that after we talked on Sunday she was bothered about the dates so she texted her friend right back saying she had to be back by the 29th. But she never got back to me to let me know. So ya, communication is definitely an issue.


She does not seem to be very respectful of you. She set you up to begin with and then she doesn't even tell you she changed her mind until, once again, you have revisit the issue. 

She plays games with you. Very subtle mind games. She has to be in control often doesn't she? How old are your kids again?


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## CharlieParker

Anon Pink said:


> She does seem to be very respectful of you.


Is a "not" missing?


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## phillybeffandswiss

CharlieParker said:


> Is a "not" missing?


Funny, I thought she was being sarcastic.


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## WorkingOnMe

Anon Pink said:


> She does not seem to be very respectful of you. She set you up to begin with and then she doesn't even tell you she changed her mind until, once again, you have revisit the issue.
> 
> She plays games with you. Very subtle mind games. She has to be in control often doesn't she? How old are your kids again?




We've definitely had issues with control. The kids are 14, 16 and 20. In some instances I think she tries to assert control because she has so little of it. Now she's acting like everything's cool. 


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## phillybeffandswiss

Glad it worked out, but you both need to work on communication.


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## notmyrealname4

WOM, I'm glad you've got a resolution; hope you get smooth sailing from here on in; and have a great anniversary.


But, I read the whole thread. And, you were really set up to lose either way.

If you are honest, and say that you are unhappy, immediately, when your wife says she's going to Hawaii on the anniversary----then you're a bad guy [controlling, selfish, wet blanket etc. etc].

If you avoid confrontation, because you know she wants to go to Hawaii with her friend----now you're passive-aggressive and aren't in charge of the relationship.

Be aware that your wife may be aware of this dynamic; and your behavior patterns. She knows you don't wanna be the bad guy; so she sets things up with that in mind.

I struggle with this myself. I don't have a solution. But I truly detest people presenting me with an "option", which makes me out to be the killjoy if I protest or decline. Some folks are *very* good at pulling the strings with others. And it's hard to always be on guard with a spouse, wondering if they are trying to manipulate you.


@jld you going to Europe ,or Asia with your kids, because Dug can't get away from work; is a totally different situation than this. You aren't leaving him at home. You aren't going off with girlfriends. You're going with family because he *can't* leave work to share it with you. It's disappointing, sure, but it's not the same emotionally as a spouse putting you in second place on a landmark anniversary.


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## notmyrealname4

Andy1001 said:


> You are probably about to tell me I'm controlling,insecure and jealous.
> But I'm not.


No, it's okay. Be controlling, insecure and jealous. That's part of the human condition; especially when you're in love.

These perfectly normal emotions have been demonized by those who would like to get away with murder; they commit their atrocious behaviors---then if you object, they weaponize your emotions against you: "You're just jealous", "you only act like that because you're so insecure", "don't try to control me".


Own your jealousy, insecurity and controlling tendencies. Other than true nutters; most people have an acceptable, normal level of these feelings.


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## Malaise

I wonder if the revised date was the original after all, she had no intention of going on the anniv., and she was just messing with him to gauge his reaction. 

Now, she looks like the magnanimous one.


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## frusdil

Wow talk about a **** test for you WOM!!


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## heartsbeating

Maybe she knows you well enough to read between the lines of your inner turmoil even though you weren't straight with her and acted accordingly, adjusting the dates. I'm puzzled how it then slipped her mind to tell you. And 'Phew!' that you talked to her. 

The cynic in me feels the dynamic between you is a constant set-up ...with both of you contributing.

The hopeful wonders if she realized she'd messed up in her own (albeit selfish) excitement and gave pause to realize what she was doing, then genuinely forgot to update you.

Will you now plan your special anniversary together?


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## heartsbeating

manwithnoname said:


> Sounds like a massive **** test. Is she always trying to press your buttons?


I wondered this too.

In fairness, if he'd said 'No that's not okay.' maybe it would bring things to surface quicker (regardless of outcome).


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## anonfem

I think it's very rude that she changed the dates and didn't tell you. That's really really ridiculous. She knows it was important to you!!!!!!!!! She knows this would have made you happy to hear this. Why didn't she tell you as soon as she knows? She doesn't even think of you or your feelings? 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk


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## ABHale

jld said:


> Tell her exactly how you feel.
> 
> If my husband did that, I would have been terribly hurt. As in, I could not have spoken to him hurt, at least not right away.
> 
> This matters to you. Maybe after you two talk, you will see it differently. But right now it clearly hurts. And she should know that.


After almost 25 yers together, she knows it hurt OP. She actually said she knows it's important to him. She made to where he would be a jerk about instead of telling the friend that their anniversary falls during that time an saying no.


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## ABHale

WorkingOnMe said:


> So I said this to her this morning. Well mostly anyway.....not word for word. Her response? "Oh, I already changed the dates so I would be home for our anniversary. I guess I forgot to tell you, but I told her I had to be home before then." She says that after we talked on Sunday she was bothered about the dates so she texted her friend right back saying she had to be back by the 29th. But she never got back to me to let me know. So ya, communication is definitely an issue.


I think, I would have told my wife she should have kept the dates, I already made plans sense you informed me you would be gone.


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## aine

I'm glad that worked out for you and your wife made the right decision. Just be honest and transparent, it does not mean you are less of a man. Tell her I am glad you decided to be around on our anniversary, its a special day for us both.


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## ABHale

aine said:


> I'm glad that worked out for you and your wife made the right decision. Just be honest and transparent, it does not mean you are less of a man. Tell her I am glad you decided to be around on our anniversary, its a special day for us both.


Did she? Or was it the sarcasm in his voice that tipped her off. Needless to say when she did change her plans, she let WOM stew on it for a few days until he brought it up himself.


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## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> We've definitely had issues with control. The kids are 14, 16 and 20. In some instances *I think she tries to assert control because she has so little of it.* Now she's acting like everything's cool.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are deluding yourself. She has all the control my friend.


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## BlueandBlond

Every wedding anniversary should be special and shared between the husband and wife. My husband and I even celebrate our first date together. We have been together over 20 years and our 18th wedding anniversary is June 5th. We are planning a trip to Hawaii with our kids for our 20th. I would be devastated if my husband made any other plans purposely on our anniversary and he would feel the same. You are not over thinking it. You have every right to be upset and you should say something to your wife. That is just so inconsiderate and thoughtless. I am surprised her girlfriend isn't saying the same thing. Your 25th Anniversary is a huge milestone! Doesn't this make you question your relationship to a certain point?


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## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> My question was *do you consider sensitivity a positive or negative trait.*But because you have two completely different interpretations of the word then the question can't be answered without contradicting yourself.
> And in any case the op refuses to be honest with his wife either through fear or just accepting his opinion won't count so the point is moot anyway.



I told you I will get back to you Andy...
...............................................................................................
"Do you consider sensitivity a positive or negative trait?":

Good question..

For me, it is a Positive trait in a Negative world.

And that positive polar position will be grounded and nullified by the multitude of primitive buttwipes who use tree leaves for toilet paper.

Good people are cannon-fodder for selfish turds.


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## Rubix Cubed

WorkingOnMe said:


> So I said this to her this morning. Well mostly anyway.....not word for word. Her response? "Oh, I already changed the dates so I would be home for our anniversary. I guess I forgot to tell you, but I told her I had to be home before then." She says that after we talked on Sunday she was bothered about the dates so she texted her friend right back saying she had to be back by the 29th. But she never got back to me to let me know. So ya, communication is definitely an issue.


 My guess is she didn't "forget" to tell you, she was leaving it open ended so if you didn't bring it up again she could just stick to the original plan ,but since you did now she can look like the good wife for changing the plans to accommodate your anniversary.


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## Plan 9 from OS

I shake my head at this thread. Your wife is a real piece of work. No wonder MMSLP is touted on here so much. I get it that some people like to have that "challenge". I think it would be quite tedious. I don't think I would have dated someone like your wife very long let alone get married. I can't stand people who play games like that. 

IMHO, your best approach was to be direct the moment it happened.


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## SimplyAmorous

25 years is a milestone many never make it to, this deserves "reverence"....a time to celebrate , and to look back.. reconnect.. whatever you need to do...

Showing some vulnerability in how much YOU DO CARE - is honest...sometimes we don't want to go there, it shows our emotions but also it may lead to a fight...she wants what SHE wants... You want what should be - on your 25th anniversary.. even if things could be better between the 2 of you... still this IS important ...this time should be reserved , celebrated together... 

You have every right to feel jaded, disrespected...as you can see.... most of us would !... And she deserves to hear HOW you feel and why.. even if it's vulnerable.. you need to share it... she needs to understand it... this could lead to coming together or a headed argument /fight - (no matter the issue, more will come up in the future)....a good fight is not always such a bad thing... it brings things to the forefront so they can be dealt with...

Passive aggressiveness, on the other hand, just causes resentment and distance between couples.. 

I read a few posts where others feel she put you in a "no win" situation here , that either way...you would come out the BAD guy.. .. is this is common theme over the years, with your wife?


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## ABHale

Hey WOM. How are thing going for the 25th WA.


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## WorkingOnMe

ABHale said:


> Hey WOM. How are thing going for the 25th WA.




She arrives from Hawaii the day before so we won't plan anything big. But we'll be together. We have a packed summer in the mean time. 


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## aine

We will be married 25 years in October, I think we will make it but after all the ups and downs I think its hypocritical to pretend it is worth celebrating, I hope this feeling will pass.


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## Anon Pink

WorkingOnMe said:


> She arrives from Hawaii the day before so we won't plan anything big. But we'll be together. We have a packed summer in the mean time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel like a 25th anniversary is a time to both celebrate a major milestone and reassess the relationship. What are the positives and negatives from each of your perspectives? What makes you happy that your spouse is your spouse? What do each of you do to keep the relationship on a positive plain? This isn't a time to nit pick. This is a time to honestly reflect.

If the law of the land required all married couples to reaffirm their desire to be together before a judge on their 25th, would you reaffirm?

Would you promise your love, loyalty and fidelity again?

When we had our 25th it was another wake up moment for me...that I did nothing about. We went away for the weekend, I had gifts for each day prepared. Sexy stuff, personal stuff, fun stuff. I had cards and notes ready to go and planned to hide them in my luggage but he saw them at some point. When I gave him his first gift he said he felt guilty because he hadn't had time to get me anything, not even a card. He truly felt guilty and I didn't like that he felt bad but it absolutely hurt that even on our 25th he couldn't be bothered to set foot in a store to find a gift. So I passed it off as no big deal because I didn't like him feeling badly.

I had wanted that weekend to be a reconnection for us. I had hoped it would be a time for each of us to recognize that 25 years together is important, that our marriage was important, that I was important. But he blew it, as usual, and I soothed his guilt, as usual. If I had thrown a fit of some sort, if I had been honest that this anniversary was important and his lack of effort in acknowledging me and us, underscoring his 25 year track record of doing exactly nothing to show he cared except for coming home on time, maybe it would have been a wake up for him. Because he felt guilty he was in the perfect emotional place to absorb how hurtful his constant lack of effort was. But I soothed his guilt instead.

This is why emotional honesty is important.


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## CharlieParker

@Anon Pink, thanks, good stuff, good reminders. I need to get in touch with the church.


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## Middle of Everything

This thread just threw me off. I always thought WoMe has called **** like it is on TAM. If I remember right he and Mrs WoMe had/have bedroom compatibility issues but otherwise I thought he had his **** together.

But this? To me it'd be my wife basically saying "**** you", and **** our 25 years together. Doesnt mean **** to her. And I just sit there and take it.

I think @bandit.45 and @Anon Pink summed it up best with snippets from their posts.

Control and emotional honesty. 

I hope this works out for you WoMe as Ive said youve always come across as a straight shooter and a good guy. While my first instinct at one time might have been what yours was with the going dark and other passive aggressive behavior, somewhat because of TAM I now know that helps nothing. TALK to your wife. HONESTLY. See where that takes you.


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## mary35

WorkingOnMe said:


> She arrives from Hawaii the day before so we won't plan anything big. But we'll be together. We have a packed summer in the mean time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You don't have to have anything big planned. But you really should have "something" special PLANNED. The key word is planned. Which is what Anon Pink is telling you and I am not sure you are hearing! You have been married 25 years. Being together is not necessarily "special" after 25 years. But you can make it special. Think of something that would mean a lot to her - something special that she would not expect you to do for or with her, that would make her heart flutter. Something that would say to her - you mean the world to me and I wanted you to know that! 

PLAN something special for her - and surprise her with it!


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## WorkingOnMe

mary35 said:


> You don't have to have anything big planned. But you really should have "something" special PLANNED. The key word is planned. Which is what Anon Pink is telling you and I am not sure you are hearing! You have been married 25 years. Being together is not necessarily "special" after 25 years. But you can make it special. Think of something that would mean a lot to her - something special that she would not expect you to do for or with her, that would make her heart flutter. Something that would say to her - you mean the world to me and I wanted you to know that!
> 
> 
> 
> PLAN something special for her - and surprise her with it!




I've seen a lot of long anniversaries where they have family and friends by for a bbq or picnic. We've done this for graduations and occasions like that. I'm thinking that might be better than some romantic getaway. 


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## mary35

WorkingOnMe said:


> I've seen a lot of long anniversaries where they have family and friends by for a bbq or picnic. We've done this for graduations and occasions like that. I'm thinking that might be better than some romantic getaway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would this be something special for her - that would tell her how much you love her? For some women it would be - for others it definitely would not be!


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## Anon Pink

WorkingOnMe said:


> I've seen a lot of long anniversaries where they have family and friends by for a bbq or picnic. We've done this for graduations and occasions like that. I'm thinking that might be better than some romantic getaway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you arranged a make shift dance floor and surprised her by playing your song, the one you danced to on your wedding day...
If you presented her with a bouquet of flowers that was exactly like her bridal bouquet...
If made a grand gesture out of asking her to marry you...and then made a joke about early onset dementia by remembering she already had.


I think 25 years is a milestone and if the relationship is such that either of you have doubts about giving or receiving these kinds of gestures, that says something that you need to listen to.


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## ABHale

aine said:


> We will be married 25 years in October, I think we will make it but after all the ups and downs I think its hypocritical to pretend it is worth celebrating, I hope this feeling will pass.


I know this feeling. 28th this month. Not planning a thing.


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## Malaise

mary35 said:


> Would this be something special for her - that would tell her how much you love her? For some women it would be - for others it definitely would not be!


I think she's indicated she doesn't care and her 'special' was being in Hawaii. Without him.


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## Dannip

Perhaps OP should fly out to Hawaii and extend her stay and really live it up. Show her you're da man. Take her to the best spots, zip out to other islands. Do horseback riding. Romance the crap out of her. 

Own the marriage. She needs to follow your lead. Just like dancing. Invest in a ton Of energy into your marriage. That's what's needed. 

Be Mr Dynamic. Take the lead. Own her ass. Be that guy you want to be. Not for one day. Always.


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