# temperature barometer



## MAEPT10 (Oct 19, 2011)

Ok so I have figured out that I am the hot/warmer one in our marriage, no question about that. So I guess I am making things worse the more I try to hug, hold, kiss, have sex with her. I think I can be a litte too romantic, love letters, nice baths massages and stuff. So all of this needs to stop? The hardest part for me is when I try to neglect the things I always do, and she doesn't do them I get upset. I'm usually the only one that says I love you, or kisses before bed. If I didn't she would not. I'm reminded by two recent examples and now I'm kicking myself for my actions last night. Two days ago she came home from work and actually came over to me and kissed me hello. That has NOT happened. I had started to ignore and resist kissing her before bed, because I always do. But then if she doesn't I would get mad, and go to sleep mad and wake up mad, and want to leave for the day without saying goodbye or kissing her. But i end up thinking that isn't fair. And then just last night we were laying in bed and she took my hand and held it to her face while she was reading. It was wonderful. However I had just been rejected from sex not 25 minutes before that, so I was just not happy. I started a conversation that eventually led to sex because I feel its important to talk about. the fight simmered down and i guess we were ok. I went to bed upset, and woke up even more upset at myself for causing this problem. and i just find myself apologizing when I shouldn't and. my actions are ruining my marriage. I crave her attention. I always initiate conversation, i initiate physical touching, I try to bring home ideas or thoughts or little exercises we can do to improve the marriage. I only just realized last night and today that she absolutely hates this. I think I may end up driving her away if I continue. But I have feelings too, and they are not being attended to. How do I pull back and be ok with it, and stop trying to fix the marriage and just live in it and be happy? How do I become more Alpha and a little less Beta? By not doing all of those Hot/Warm partner traits really cool things down enough for cold partner? My fear is that if I do not continue to be hot/warm and praise her with my love and affection that she will eventually think I do not love her anymore and seek someone else. She is the colder temperature person to me and I don't think she loves me the way she "tells me".


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

wanttheoldher said:


> My fear is that if I do not continue to be hot/warm and praise her with my love and affection that she will eventually think I do not love her anymore and seek someone else.


The reality is that if you continue to smother your wife, she will eventually shut down to you and may seek someone else.

Having someone, especially a grown man, smothering you with affection and neediness feels just like when you are at the store with your four year old who loudly demands candy and then proceeds to throw a fit when they don't get it. This is the kind of dynamic that you have with your wife. You think you are saying to her "I love you", "I love you", "I love you" and she hears it as "Do you love me?" "Please love me" "Love me right now DAMMIT!". To your wife, that is not attractive behavior from a grown man.

You exhibit characteristics of what I call an "other" validated person. In otherwords, you constantly require someone other than yourself to validate you and give yourself some kind of value. To be honest, nobody wants to have the job of constantly validating someone else's self-worth. It's impossible to do. I'm sure your wife has figured that out.

A person really needs to be "self" validated. You carry within yourself those traits and values and characteristics that give yourself self worth. You validate YOURSELF. You do not depend on anyone else to give you a sense of worth. This is a much healthier dynamic to have as an individual and within a relationship.

You can work at becoming more self validated rather than other validated.

Have you ever taken this test or looked through their forum? 

No More Mr. Nice Guy! - Take the No More Mr. Nice Guy! Self-Assessment

Have you considered posting in the Men's Clubhouse? There are some men there who have been in the same boat as you and are in various phases of their journey in discovering themselves.

God Bless.


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## MAEPT10 (Oct 19, 2011)

Ok so I have figured out that I am the hot/warmer one in our marriage, no question about that. So I guess I am making things worse the more I try to hug, hold, kiss, have sex with her. I think I can be a litte too romantic, love letters, nice baths massages and stuff. So all of this needs to stop? 

The hardest part for me is when I try to neglect the things I always do, and she doesn't do them I get upset. I'm usually the only one that says I love you, or kisses before bed. If I didn't she would not. 

I'm reminded by two recent examples and now I'm kicking myself for my actions last night. Two days ago she came home from work and actually came over to me and kissed me hello. That has NOT happened. I had started to ignore and resist kissing her before bed, because I always do. But then if she doesn't I would get mad, and go to sleep mad and wake up mad, and want to leave for the day without saying goodbye or kissing her. But i end up thinking that isn't fair. And then just last night we were laying in bed and she took my hand and held it to her face while she was reading. It was wonderful. However I had just been rejected from sex not 25 minutes before that, so I was just not happy. I started a conversation that eventually led to sex because I feel its important to talk about. the fight simmered down and i guess we were ok. I went to bed upset, and woke up even more upset at myself for causing this problem. 

and i just find myself apologizing when I shouldn't and. my actions are ruining my marriage. I crave her attention. I always initiate conversation, i initiate physical touching, I try to bring home ideas or thoughts or little exercises we can do to improve the marriage. I only just realized last night and today that she absolutely hates this. 

I think I may end up driving her away if I continue. But I have feelings too, and they are not being attended to. How do I pull back and be ok with it, and stop trying to fix the marriage and just live in it and be happy? How do I become more Alpha and a little less Beta? By not doing all of those Hot/Warm partner traits really cool things down enough for cold partner? My fear is that if I do not continue to be hot/warm and praise her with my love and affection that she will eventually think I do not love her anymore and seek someone else. She is the colder temperature person to me and I don't think she loves me the way she "tells me". Guys how do I cool down and give her space and be ok with that?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Have you been to therapy?


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## MAEPT10 (Oct 19, 2011)

I just started actually. Tomorrow is my second visit.


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## MAEPT10 (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for that link. I fall in the highest category of nice guy. What a surprise. Thanks for the advice on smothering. Its going to be hard for me not to smother her, but I must pull back.


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## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

First of all, use more white space and paragraph breaks. Some will blow off youer post because it hurts to read it. Go back and edit it by inserting breaks if you weant lots of good responses. Ill show you how here. 



wanttheoldher said:


> Ok so I have figured out that I am the hot/warmer one in our marriage, no question about that.
> So I guess I am making things worse the more I try to hug, hold, kiss, have sex with her. I think I can be a litte too romantic, love letters, nice baths massages and stuff. So all of this needs to stop?
> 
> _*Dont be so sure. She may absolutely love this about you. DONT speculate. Get the facts. I would ask her to write down the five things she likes the most about you and you will do the same.
> ...


Im exhausted by your huge block of type. read these Calle Zorro - EzineArticles.com Expert Author


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

You need to read "No More Mr. Nice Guy". That's the book that the quiz that Enchantment posted is based on. Like, you really, really need to. I'd bet that it will completely change your perspective on yourself and how you act in all of your relationships, including your marriage.

I used to be the same way, using passive aggressive tactics and "covert contracts" (it's in the book, read it!) on my wife with the same results you're getting.

Know what's weird? You scored the highest rating on the "nice guy" quiz, but I've been following your myriad posts on TAM. Just like I used to be, you aren't really a "nice guy" at all. You're angry, bitter, and full of resentment aimed at your wife. I'm not accusing, it is oozing out of your posts. Read the book, and you'll understand what to do about it!


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I didn't realize you had posted this here and in the ladie's area. See my response there.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

No, no, no!

You will never repair your marriage with a bunch of gimmicks and game playing.

Your problem is not that you are a "nice guy". The problem is that you are insecure about your self-worth and are looking to your wife to provide ALL of your affirmation. You can and should be providing yourself with the majority of those needs.

At the same time, your wife probably also has issues with closeness/intimacy/trust that SHE needs to be working on. 

When you both work on yourselves, you will be better positioned to meet your own needs AND do a better job of meeting the needs of your spouse.

You can only do this by getting therapy and working on why you are looking to your wife to make you feel okay. My guess is that you had highly critical or abusive parents who did not give you the unconditional love you deserved. So you grew up feeling like you are somehow unloveable, flawed or not good enough. And so you turn to your partner to try to fill the huge void your parents left from not loving you the way you deserved to be loved.

I used to be like you. My husband used to be like your wife. We turned our marriage around by getting to the bottom of how our dysfunctional childhoods were impacting our adult lives/marriage. To be honest, most of the problems on this board could be solved by doing that, I think. 

So find a psychologist and work out what's going on with you, deep inside. Have your wife do the same. You will be suprised at what you learn!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Your problem is not that you are a "nice guy". The problem is that you are insecure about your self-worth and are looking to your wife to provide ALL of your affirmation. You can and should be providing yourself with the majority of those needs.


The premise of the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book is all about how men can overcome their insecurities and look within themselves for that self-worth and affirmation.

And, I've no doubt that many men who find themselves with those kind of insecurities can greatly benefit from therapy, but the book can be a real eye-opener for a man and maybe be able to help him get to the point where he does finally realize he needs to work on himself.

This thread has a post with a link to a pdf version of the book: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/10676-man-up-books-2.html


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> No, no, no!
> 
> You will never repair your marriage with a bunch of gimmicks and game playing.
> 
> ...


Your entire post could almost be a verbatim excerpt from Chapter 2 of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" about how "nice guys" are formed when they're children. If the gimmicks and game playing to which you're referring are him reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy", then I have to strongly but respectfully disagree.

If the gimmicks and game playing to which you're referring are the OP, then I wholeheartedly agree. They will only exacerbate his anger and resentment.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

wanttheoldher said:


> I think I may end up driving her away if I continue. But I have feelings too, and they are not being attended to. How do I pull back and be ok with it, and stop trying to fix the marriage and just live in it and be happy? How do I become more Alpha and a little less Beta? By not doing all of those Hot/Warm partner traits really cool things down enough for cold partner? My fear is that if I do not continue to be hot/warm and praise her with my love and affection that she will eventually think I do not love her anymore and seek someone else. She is the colder temperature person to me and I don't think she loves me the way she "tells me". Guys how do I cool down and give her space and be ok with that?


Start thinking in terms of meeting your own needs ... completely divested of the expectation that your partner will.

In other words, if you were single ... meeting your own needs would be the norm.

Cooling off means that you continue to be positive and respectful, but you do not do all of those other things that you indicated above.

In a nutshell, the more you continue to shower her with your perception of what will make her feel loved, while she remains disengaged, you are effectively sending the message that your needs do not matter, and you are rewarding bad behavior.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Wow, so I read a part of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and it is REALLY GOOD and insightful. I stand corrected.  I just downloaded the book onto my computer and am going to give it to my husband to read.

I guess I was lumping it in with the whole "man up" crap that I have read on here which seems to promote game-playing and macho manipulation, at least as it is written in some posts. My problem with the "manning up" phrase is that it sounds so judgemental, kind of like "real men don't cry" and "don't let your wife boss you around because you are the king of the castle". I dislike those sexist stereotypes, soI'm happy to learn how wrong I was about the Mr. Nice Guy stuff!

So thanks for the link and to correction. It's nice to know insightful stuff is being circulated!:smthumbup:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Start thinking in terms of meeting your own needs ... completely divested of the expectation that your partner will.
> 
> In other words, if you were single ... meeting your own needs would be the norm.
> 
> ...


And, whatever you want more of, you should reward.

So, reward her bad behavior at your peril.

Less is more.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Wow, so I read a part of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and it is REALLY GOOD and insightful. I stand corrected.  I just downloaded the book onto my computer and am going to give it to my husband to read.
> 
> I guess I was lumping it in with the whole "man up" crap that I have read on here which seems to promote game-playing and macho manipulation, at least as it is written in some posts. My problem with the "manning up" phrase is that it sounds so judgemental, kind of like "real men don't cry" and "don't let your wife boss you around because you are the king of the castle". I dislike those sexist stereotypes, soI'm happy to learn how wrong I was about the Mr. Nice Guy stuff!
> 
> So thanks for the link and to correction. It's nice to know insightful stuff is being circulated!:smthumbup:


I totally understand your initial POV. While I think many of the basic ideas of the "man up" stuff make sense, the message on these forums has recursively intensified to the point it's almost a caricature of itself. That's how the posts kind of sound to me anyway. I don't post in the men's section too often bc I get tired of the default "man up" response.

That aside and back to the OP, the "No More Mr Nice Guy" book is one part of the "man up" stuff that I get behind 100%. Changed my life in a positive way, no kidding.


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## koalamom (Oct 16, 2011)

I suppose that book only pertains to men? Would it help a woman out at all if she's the one who seems to be doing the smothering?


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

koalamom said:


> I suppose that book only pertains to men? Would it help a woman out at all if she's the one who seems to be doing the smothering?


My wife read the first few chapters and saw a lot of herself in it. The chapters on how men become nice guys beginning with their childhood and the chapters dealing with how nice guys interact in their relationships could just about apply to either gender, honestly. The only thing my wife didn't care for is the author's contention that one of the reasons men become nice guys is because they are almost solely raised by women up through college (SAHMs, mostly female teachers, etc). She found it a bit sexist. I can see how a woman would feel that way. I say give it a shot if you can find a copy at your library.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

A barometer measures humidity.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Runs like Dog said:


> A barometer measures humidity.


or maybe atmospheric pressure?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Laurae1967 said:


> My problem with the "manning up" phrase is that it sounds so judgemental, kind of like "real men don't cry" and "don't let your wife boss you around because you are the king of the castle". I dislike those sexist stereotypes, soI'm happy to learn how wrong I was about the Mr. Nice Guy stuff!
> 
> So thanks for the link and to correction. It's nice to know insightful stuff is being circulated!:smthumbup:


A little knowledge can lead to big changes.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> or maybe atmospheric pressure?


right you are.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah...forget manning up, go buy a thermometer and see what's really up.


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