# How to handle renewed intimacy...



## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

Ok so I just stumbled upon this site a day or two ago. Hopefully there isn't an old thread out there about this topic. I looked but didn't see one.

My situation: I discovered my wife's affair (and previous multiple cyber affairs) 6 months ago. It had only been going on for a month or two. (The physical affair)

Obviously I was destroyed. Completely caught off guard. I have since come to see what I did to make her feel unloved, unwanted, etc... I do not, and will not, take responsibility for her poor choices in seeking affection, acceptance, etc.. from other men, but our relationship was not thriving and I fully accept my responsibility there.

She had reached the point where she wanted out, but my reaction to all of this gave her pause. I forgave her right away. I have been doing my best to love her unconditionally ( I know some say it is nuts and i have no desire to be taken advantage of, but I took a vow and I meant it...)

This has brought us to the point where by mutual agreement I have been giving her space ad we have in essence been separated but living in the same house (I sleep on the couch i the spare bedroom). 

She has been acting friendlier towards me and I truly think we are on the right path.

However, a couple days she asked i f i wanted to come to sleep in the bed. I was stunned and said yes of course. Again, I tried to give her space and made no advances (she is like a scared animal right now). Eventually she came and cuddled with me (YAY!) :smthumbup:

Reflecting now I am thinking her request was twofold: 1) She was reaching out to me a little bit. 2) She wanted a man to cuddle with (not necessarily me).

My question here is: It's been 6 months. Eventually she is going to come to the point where is she is just flat out horny.

Again, I realize when the time comes it will probably be twofold: 1) She wants to try and be intimate with me again and 2) She just wants to have sex.

So should I just give in (yeah...really gotta twist my arm) or should I insist we discuss things and all that rigamarole first?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

1 - she should be on the couch
2 - she should be doing whatever is necessary for you to heal, which includes figuring out how to renew intimacy.
3 - has she been tested for STDs?
4 - you should not forgive yet, she has not done anything to earn forgiveness.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

How long after your discovery of the affair did she end the relationship w/ OM?

Have the two of you been intimate w/ each other AT ALL in the past 6 months? If not, this is a bad sign. Normally couples go through a very intense "hyperactive bonding" stage shortly after the discovery of the affair... and perhaps even before either party commits to reconciliation of the marriage.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Resuming sex should be on YOUR timetable, not hers. And only after she has been STD tested and you have gone with her to the doc for the results.

This 'rigamarole' of which you speak is called 'true reconciliation'. If you avoid everything and just keep being her lap dog, she's going to cheat again.

And dude - WTF are YOU doing on the couch here?

You've got everything bass ackwards here.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Seems there is no consequences for the WW. You are on the couch. Something very wrong with this picture. Get back in your bed. You did not create this mess. She can take the couch.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Sorry friend, but you made the classic mistake a lot of BS's make. You rug swept her affair.

It's up to *her* to repair the damage she caused; to demonstrate remorse, to accept consequences, to do the heavy lifting to help you heal. Simply put, if she doesn't; then you shouldn't attempt R with her. Whether you wanted sex the next day or not until 3 months later, that's your call, not hers. 

Before you do your part to work on the marriage, and you should, you've got to get past her affair. That comes first. No matter how lousy a husband you were, she crossed a line. When you are satisfied that she is truly remorseful and is demonstrating it; *THEN* you can work on the marital issues. 

The way you describe her actions so far, she is not close to being remorseful; and you have enabled her mindset. The good news is that can be corrected by you; if you have the stones.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I honestly do know where this world is coming to at times, the wives cheat and suddenly its the husband job to forgive, and sleep on the couch....please don't tell me you gravel as well....if this gets you mad Good....you should get mad...you did nothing wrong


tonight you sleep in your bed and she complains to you there is the door, as mention above sex is on your timetable...look you screwed up not you...she owes it too you to make this right....and if not GOODBYE...have all the real men left the planet?


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I forgave her right away. I have been doing my best to *love her unconditionally *( I know some say it is nuts and i have no desire to be taken advantage of, but I took a vow and I meant it...)


The term "unconditional love" has always bothered me. Does that mean she can do anything? I don't have "unconditional love" for myself.


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...

Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.

Regardless, I am comfortable in my own skin. I have owned my mistakes and I'm aware of hers. 

I sleep on the couch because I love her. Not because she loves me, or even whether she loves me. 

I know to you all I am sounding like a little b*tch, but the truth is i am stronger now than I have ever been. I wish I had reached this point long ago, but finally, FINALLY, i know how I am supposed to love my wife. So I'm doing it now.

She is so messed up mentally and emotionally. She has made herself physically ill through this. She needs a friend. Someone who really loves her right now and accepts her faults and sins without judgment. And that's what i'm trying to do.

Sure I hurt. I'm emotionally drained and some days are better than others. Sure I want to sleep in my bed again but I promised her many years ago that i would love her unconditionally. She loved me through these intervening years, now it's time for me to pay it back.

You know, I guess you all have helped me answer my own question.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...
> 
> Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.
> 
> ...


You know what? Fair enough. IMO you're being a bit too passive, but that's cool. We'll see how that unfolds. Maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't matter.

Just for kicks, though, hit us up w/ some answers to these questions...



GusPolinski said:


> How long after your discovery of the affair did she end the relationship w/ OM?
> 
> Have the two of you been intimate w/ each other AT ALL in the past 6 months? If not, this is a bad sign. Normally couples go through a very intense "hyperactive bonding" stage shortly after the discovery of the affair... and perhaps even before either party commits to reconciliation of the marriage.


For now, please know that I didn't ask these questions at all lightly, or even out of a morbid or voyeuristic curiosity. Your answers to these questions are far more germane than you know.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My friend... Wow. Just wow.

Yes you both made mistakes in the relationship. She punished you by having multiple affairs.

Now you are punishing yourself by sleeping on the couch and begging her for forgiveness for your past mistakes within the relationship.

How has she been punished? What consequences has she had, besides that she is an emotional wreck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Could you please put your statement in a sentence so that no one misinterprets your position. What I mean is this: It sounds like you are saying: My wife was justified in having sex with another man x times because I was ignorant about her needs.

It was my fault, but I am not to blame, that my wife slept with and was involved with another man.

She was wrong to cheat on me by I made her do it so is kind of my fault.

I get the whole love your wife thing, want to be with her and all, but dude, you seriously are going to be in for a world of hurt given the way that you are approaching this whole situation. 

Good luck to you cause you ARE going to need it. See you in a few months as you tell us how betrayed you felt and stupid you felt that your wife was still at it with another man, possibly and usually the same man. You will still do nothing about it, but post, boast and end up being a milquetoast. Good luck.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...
> 
> Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.


You said in your initial post that you weren't taking any of the blame for her cheating, but this seems to contradict that.

You need to see your marriage as a separate entity from her cheating - two totally separate issue to deal with. The mistakes you made in your relationship must be addressed by you, yes - but ONLY after she has done a sh!t ton of work on herself and addressed the fact she chose to cheat.

When she cheated, she ended your marriage. You may have promised her that you'd love her unconditionally (big mistake IMO but whatever), but she also promised to remain faithful did she not??? You have to throw the pieces away and start over. What you guys had is gone forever.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

This link talks about true remorse among other things. There is a LOT of info in it but please take the time to absorb what it says.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> This has brought us to the point where by mutual agreement I have been giving her space ad we have in essence been separated but living in the same house (I sleep on the couch i the spare bedroom).
> 
> She has been acting friendlier towards me and I truly think we are on the right path.
> 
> ...


First, I want to congratulate you on trying to make the marriage work in the face of an affair. That's rare these days.

I think you may be misreading the situation. Do you know why she had affair? My guess is that she was missing something more than sex and your reaction to the affair caused her to rethink that. Maybe she felt you were not giving attention to her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...


Except she is.

You may have caused her to no longer want the relationship, but you didn't put another man's penis in her vagina.

She did.


> Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.


I'm sure that's a very sad story she's spun for you to believe.

I say that having been where you are now.


> Regardless, I am comfortable in my own skin. I have owned my mistakes and I'm aware of hers.


Groovy. Enlightened. So?


> I sleep on the couch because I love her. Not because she loves me, or even whether she loves me.


If you loved yourself, you wouldn't be on the couch.

If you respected yourself, you wouldn't be on the couch.


> I know to you all I am sounding like a little b*tch, but the truth is i am stronger now than I have ever been. I wish I had reached this point long ago, but finally, FINALLY, i know how I am supposed to love my wife. So I'm doing it now.


What you are doing is being played with and allowing her to continue having affairs.



> She is so messed up mentally and emotionally. She has made herself physically ill through this. She needs a friend. Someone who really loves her right now and accepts her faults and sins without judgment. And that's what i'm trying to do.


That's what girlfriends and priests are for, not husbands.


> Sure I hurt. I'm emotionally drained and some days are better than others. Sure I want to sleep in my bed again but I promised her many years ago that i would love her unconditionally.


This is a mistake.

In doing so, you will allow yourself to tolerate the intolerable, and turn her off doing it.


> She loved me through these intervening years, now it's time for me to pay it back.
> 
> You know, I guess you all have helped me answer my own question.


You're not paying it back.

You're allowing yourself to support your wife while she screws other men.

This is called cake eating, and boy, did you fall for it.

Want your wife back?

Kick her out.

Serve her divorce/separation papers.

Expose to everyone.

Start acting single. Get fit, get new clothes, walk around with a big grin on your face.

Watch what happens.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

First of all get that word unconditionally out of your head...every thing has conditions....whether you realize or not there are conditions...if you came home and found you wife having sex with bunch of guys and laughing at you would not still be loving her unconditionally...so it is time to put on your big boy pants and take control of your marriage, you may own your mistakes but that does not mean you cheated, she cheated she gave away what was yours..tell me when she was in the arms of the other man did she love you unconditionally? you don't belong on the couch...be a real man and take ownership of your bed and home.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Guys, could we please not run OP completely off just yet?

Geez... you're supposed to _*start* w/ the feather pillows_ and _*finish* w/ the 2x4's_...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Guys, could we please not run OP completely off just yet?
> 
> Geez... you're supposed to _*start* w/ the feather pillows_ and _*finish* w/ the 2x4's_...


I've *been* him.

I wish I had more 2x4's earlier than I did. Would have saved me months of being the good guy, hoping, dreaming, wishing, doing anything to make it work...

All while she was bouncing on some other dude.

I had one and only one friend in the world hammering me with that 2x4 over and over. At the time I thought he was a ****, but he's my best friend in the world that I would do anything for.

Please, OP, please.

For yourself. For her. Listen.

Compassion is not always nice.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ladymisato said:


> I think you may be misreading the situation. Do you know why she had affair? My guess is that she was missing something more than sex and your reaction to the affair caused her to rethink that. Maybe she felt you were not giving attention to her.


Can you please quit posting crap like this????


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

He needs to realize this situation is not his fault - that's rule 1 right now.

She needs to be doing 100 percent of the heavy lifting- the groveling, begging, pleading, show remorse and regret. Instead she is sleeping comfortably in the bed and he is on the couch.

Then, they each give 60% toward fixing the underlying problems in the relationship. A little more than half, but not all one sided.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

Right Gus?!?!? lol

I'm not mad at you guys. You don't know me and cannot understand all the nuances of my marriage in 4 or 5 paragraphs.

She stopped seeing him 3 weeks after I found out. We called him together. She gave me access to her phone and social media accounts. 

We have had sex once since then. (about 4 months ago)

We started going to counseling and as they predicted things got worse before they got better. 

She pretty much shut down emotionally a couple weeks after the sex due to the stress and situation and actually was on the verge of a (psychiatrist diagnosed) nervous breakdown. She lost her job over this.

She was counseled (and I agree) that she was unable to work on both her marriage and herself simultaneously so what she needed was some space and some time.

And it's been working.


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

oh, and I don't blame myself for this. My crap is my crap. Her crap is her crap.

I didn't make her do this. This is her fault.

But I am willing to forgive her... if she wants it.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You will not get thru this by going around it, you have to go thru it.

So there are no consequences for her A? 

She should have been tested for stds, the OM should have been exposed, she should have written you a timeline and diary of her A.

This will come back to haunt you. You need to watch out for yourself, you will never heal this way. The A will go off like a bomb that is building and you will never heal this way.

You have to heal as well to make it in your marriage, not continue to be a dead soldier on the side of the road.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, what about the STD testing??


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

B&C

Many of us on TAM are Pro Marriage and Pro Reconciliation.

Just the fact you are willing to forgive her is great. And yes she has to want your forgiveness.

But what I think you are seeing from her reaction to this whole mess is if she will be able to forgive herself first.

So if you love her, keep loving her.
If she wants and needs you as a friend then keep being her friend.

And if she forgives herself and is open to a true reconciliation just make sure she is worthy of it.

It sounds like she has her own consequences to deal with and you have your hands full.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

How long have you been married and do you have any kids?

HM


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

Wow... you guys just hammer and hammer... It's rather obvious you have all either been thru this yourself or have a friend who has and it still hurts.

Like I said, I ain't mad at you.

Yes she's been tested. She's clean.

As far as the "sticking my head in the sand" or whatever... I have about 90% of the story and timeline. When she was diagnosed we stopped "working on our marriage". (This is where we are now...towards the end of it I think. She seems to be returning to the woman i married)

It is understood between us that for right now, I am setting my need for information and intimacy and reassurance etc... aside until she is healthy. 

But so we are clear (and she and I are) I AM NOT WAIVING MY RIGHTS to these things, just delaying.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> Wow... you guys just hammer and hammer... It's rather obvious you have all either been thru this yourself or have a friend who has and it still hurts.
> 
> Like I said, I ain't mad at you.
> 
> ...


OK good. Because it's important that you not sweep everything under the rug.

How do you know she's clean? Did she just tell you, or did you see results with your own eyes or hear the dr with your own ears?


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

@Happyman - 17 years and we have 3. And you hit the nail on the head. I think a HUGE portion of her getting to the point where she is ready to work on our marriage is she is having a hard time forgiving herself.

To make matters worse our son knows (heard us fighting on D-Day and her admitting what she had done) and at least one of our younger daughters does too.


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## Blindsidedandcrushed (Aug 20, 2014)

@Hope i went to the doctor with her and saw the results


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> Right Gus?!?!? lol
> 
> I'm not mad at you guys. You don't know me and cannot understand all the nuances of my marriage in 4 or 5 paragraphs.
> 
> ...


With much love, brother... the first part was awesome, and I can see how the second part leaves you vulnerable. Because she is, because you see her pain, and because you love her.

Just know you're ripe for rug sweeping, supporting her as she goes through this, and leaving the door wide open for her to leave or do it again.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

And if I'm not, at least consider the following question:

What does she bring to this relationship? Right now?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> Wow... you guys just hammer and hammer... It's rather obvious you have all either been thru this yourself or have a friend who has and it still hurts.
> 
> Like I said, I ain't mad at you.
> 
> ...


What happens if she gets healthy?

What happens if she doesn't?

How long are you giving her?


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

OP, you've essentially been friend-zoned by your wife. You've become her orbiter waiting for her scraps. She's running this show. She's stayed in the house - you're on the couch and you're all about working it out with her. She has no consequences. You're playing into her narrative. You seem willing to completely sacrifice yourself and rugsweep this in order to keep your jewel who didn't have anough respect for you to remain faithful. She slept with another man (men) behind your back. 

It's cool that you're not mad. You're doing all the same things as new BSs do. You'll feel differently soon enough. The same tired script for the cheater and the betrayed is being played out - almost precisely. We don't know you, but your situation isn't unique, nor is your wife. 

She isn't done with this guy. She won't be until she has real consequences. Believe it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

B&C

I know you are feeling hammered. The TAM crew is tough. But they do have "your" best interests at heart though it may not always sound like it.

The keyword is "healthy". She needs to be healthy no matter what direction you choose to go in with your marriage.

And your children still need their mother. But not a damaged one.

So stay the course. Demand that she get healthy and support her to get healthy.

Protect your kids as best you can. 

I think at this time that is all you can do. 

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting her to be the best person she can be.

There will be plenty of time to deal with her bad decisions if you two decide to work together in the future.

HM


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You are in counselling, together?

Are there any children?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> Right Gus?!?!? lol
> 
> I'm not mad at you guys. *You don't know me and cannot understand all the nuances of my marriage in 4 or 5 paragraphs.*
> 
> ...


Do not kid yourself. After you have been around here awhile you will realize that the folks here are generally right about 98% of the time. The problem is that the OP's do not want more of their world to come crashing down. 

I have no doubt your W is in a fragile place and I commend you for your "unconditional" outlook. At some point your W is going to have to do some heavy lifting here and you need to make sure that is part of the deal. If your MC does not believe this should be part of her contribution then you are dealing with a quack (and I think you may be) and need to find another therapist.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"To make matters worse our son knows (heard us fighting on D-Day and her admitting what she had done) and at least one of our younger daughters does too."

If one knows they all know.

When one of my friend's A was exposed, one of her sons heard the confrontation.

Within three days, not only did both her sons know, but so did all of their cousins.

Kids are both more aware then adults think, and talk/share things amongst themselves....they just usually won't discuss things with adults, instead pretending like everything's fine.

I'm surprised that so many posters here forget these things, since we were all kids once.

I remember being a young teenager and hanging out with one of my good friends riding bikes around town.

We rode to the liquor store to get some sodas...in the same little mini-mall was a coffee/bake shop.

Inside we saw his mom talking with some guy that was not his dad...it was obvious to us, just through body language, they weren't acting like 'friends'.

She didn't see us and we rode back to his house to check in with his big sister....we were sitting on his front lawn, and I remember asking him if he was gonna tell his dad...he got really emotional and cried some as we discussed the whole thing, but I don't think he ever told his dad or ever let his mom know what we saw.

He**, we were kids...didn't have the first clue what to do about it, but we sure knew what was going on.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Guess I still don't understand the couch thing. Not just in your situation sir but in the stereotype of husband and wife fight and husband gets the couch.


Only got that once in my marriage. Huge fight ,which was rare, and she asked me to sleep on the couch. Flat out said no. This is our marital bed and I'm sleeping in this, if you are so butt hurt you can't stand to be near me you can sleep on the couch. Well of course she didn't and we had great makeup sex.


I think the first thing you should do is get back in your marital bed. If for no other reason than to show your kids you aren't going anywhere since you decision as been to reconcile


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Seems the focus is all on one person. The other person with no focus is on the couch justifying the betrayal. Odd.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I wouldn't be to quick to assume things will get better.

Your current arrangement of space under the same roof serves to fuel any possible affair that she still might be having.

How long has it been since you were intimate?

Have you discreetly been monitoring her to ensure she is not still playing up.

Sounds to me that you were too quick to forgive and offered no real consequences for her actions


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

Kudos on being open to reconciliation. It's not easy, though I'm sure the alternative isn't either. You've gotten the same good advice over and over, but I just wanted to add two things:

1) As sportsfan says, make sure you are monitoring her. Given everything that is going on and how unhealthy and selfish she seems, this is a must. 

2) I think you should consider seeing an individual counselor on your own, for self-discovery, to have someone to talk to, to get yourself healthy. You sound like you have codependent tendencies.

Good luck, and keep posting.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I know to you all I am sounding like a little b*tch, but the truth is i am stronger now than I have ever been. I wish I had reached this point long ago, but finally, FINALLY, i know how I am supposed to love my wife. So I'm doing it now.


Blindsided my man, I'm one of the few to proffer that sometimes a man's behavior can cause a woman to explore the possibly that he ain't the only man willing and able to treat her like a sexy and desirable woman. I really really think you're going way beyond what you should with this girl. I can see that you love her but bear in mind that unless she loves you, you're pissing in the wind. 
Have you even looked at the beating you're taking in the "arrangement". You're sounding like a combination of a doormat and mother hen. And that ain't to sexy. Her respect for you is paramount if she's to love you and desire you. Your actions don't foster respect and women cannot love a man they don't respect; at least not in a romantic way.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh man you are doing everything wrong. She will cheat again if she stays.., if...


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Blindsided, I commend you for the grace you are showing towards your wife at this time. I am glad you have looked at your side of the street in your marriage issues and are doing your bit to improve things. I just hope that you are having the space and time you need to heal. To forgive does not mean your feelings have been processed. If you still have feelings and pain around this, please get support you need for as long as you need and take the pace you need to take in reconciling your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arioch (Jul 9, 2013)

Just my $0.02 worth since I just discovered my wife in an affair as well.

I see sleeping on the couch as part of my 180. She has asked me to sleep with her multiple times to which I have calmly said "you know I can't do that". Her sleeping in OUR bed is clearly hurting her. I am beginning to sleep better and she is sleeping worse. She is now talking about moving out the week after next. 

Also, I agree with many of the posters here that even though we drifted apart over the last 10 years since kids (been married 20) that is both our faults but I would NEVER take even the slightest responsibility for her affair. That was a choice she made. A choice she knew would end our marriage if I found out.

It took me a while to trust in many of the direct and pointed comments of the folks here as I was (and still am) in terrible pain and realize I was just being desperate. The 180 has given me great strength to stand up to not being Plan B. 

But my situation is a bit different since my WS is still refusing to give me all the truth.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Also, have you consider about yourself? How are you going to handle your mind movies about her and her lover? 

Right now, you are suppressing that by being overly concern about your wife's emotions, I assume.

But she gave you a "gift" that will kick in eventually, maybe in the months or years ahead. It'll never leave your head. 

I suggest you think ahead and take the opportunity now to resolve as much as you can before the fury and turmoil of her actions with her lover occupies your waking thoughts.

If you are forgiving now, how do you know completely what you're forgiving?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I'm surprised that so many posters here forget these things, since we were all kids once.


I'm always flat out amazed by this.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh boy. 

Heed the advice you're being given here, my friend. Doing things the way you are now...is completely backwards. You'll come to see that. I hope.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

blindsidedandcrushed said:


> i am glad of the reactions this is getting but i'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...
> 
> Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.
> 
> ...


Dude!!!! Please listen to what you're being told here.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Although each situation has nuance, they are remarkably the same, otherwise there wouldn't be a skeleton outline in all these stories.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

awake1 said:


> Although each situation has nuance, they are remarkably the same, otherwise there wouldn't be a skeleton outline in all these stories.


Yup. I was him when I first came here after discovering my stbxw's affair. And everyone told me the exact same thing. Eventually it sunk in.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> However, a couple days she asked i f i wanted to come to sleep in the bed. I was stunned and said yes of course. Again, I tried to give her space and made no advances (she is like a scared animal right now). Eventually she came and cuddled with me (YAY!)


Healer, I hope you weren't like this. 

OP, do you love your wife so unconditionally that you would stay with her if she never wanted to make love again?

I'm just not seeing it happen for you. This approach is very loving, but what have you done that requires you to make up for her cheating? This marriage is supposed to be 50/50.. what is she doing for you? Not leaving?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

staystrong said:


> Healer, I hope you weren't like this.


Well, no, we physically separated right away, so there was none of that. However, I do recall one icky moment. A couple weeks or so after (I think it was that amount of time - it's all "fog"gy) she texts me "should we have one last goodbye?". At first I was confused then got what she meant. I was reluctant but said yes. So she came over one night and we had sex. She said she wanted us to end things "with love". 

PUKE! Can't believe I fell for that. How icky. I was still open to saving the marriage at that point, but wasn't really pursuing it or anything - I had accepted it was over. But I just shudder to think how manipulative and gross she was.

She has a serious boyfriend now, but even as recently as March she asked me for a booty call. I didn't reply.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Healer said:


> Well, no, we physically separated right away, so there was none of that. However, I do recall one icky moment. A couple weeks or so after (I think it was that amount of time - it's all "fog"gy) she texts me "should we have one last goodbye?". At first I was confused then got what she meant. I was reluctant but said yes. So she came over one night and we had sex. She said she wanted us to end things "with love".
> 
> PUKE! Can't believe I fell for that. How icky. I was still open to saving the marriage at that point, but wasn't really pursuing it or anything - I had accepted it was over. But I just shudder to think how manipulative and gross she was.
> 
> She has a serious boyfriend now, but even as recently as March she asked me for a booty call. I didn't reply.


I can't tell you the amount of icky crap went on. 

I don't know where my head was one night. 

During limbo, I felt like she was still deep in the fog or on the fence, and I wanted to have sex with her to 'reclaim' her. But she still thought she was 'his' in her mind. So I guess I was so tired of my f'ed up wife that I felt I needed to prove something. I just wanted to have sex for sex's sake, not because we had in any way rebonded. It was great sex but heartbreaking really -- kind of a nauseating end and I felt demeaned both of us, really. Before the sex, she felt like she was going to be used, and she was saying to me that this was goodbye sex but in my head I was thinking 'no way, this won't be the last time'. It was great sex, but not she did not fully give herself to me. However, afterwards, she thought that we should do it again another time. It was one of those surreal limbo moments and really one of those low points where you ask yourself "what have we become?". I hate that it ever happened. There was no dignity in two of those weeks. It was anti-love.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Anyhow, OP, I just don't want to see you do anything that would make you lose more respect for yourself.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

staystrong said:


> I can't tell you the amount of icky crap went on.
> 
> I don't know where my head was one night.
> 
> During limbo, I felt like she was still deep in the fog or on the fence, and I wanted to have sex with her to 'reclaim' her. But she still thought she was 'his' in her mind. So I guess I was so tired of my f'ed up wife that I felt I needed to prove something. I just wanted to have sex for sex's sake, not because we had in any way rebonded. It was great sex but heartbreaking really -- kind of a nauseating end and I felt demeaned both of us, really. Before the sex, she felt like she was going to be used, and she was saying to me that this was goodbye sex but in my head I was thinking 'no way, this won't be the last time'. It was great sex, but not she did not fully give herself to me. However, afterwards, she thought that we should do it again another time. It was one of those surreal limbo moments and really one of those low points where you ask yourself "what have we become?". I hate that it ever happened. There was no dignity in two of those weeks. It was anti-love.


Yeah, I dig. The whole thing is just weird and unsettling and kinda gross. It's weird to look back at your mindset - so different from now. I was in a fog of my own, I guess.

Are you in R or are you guys over?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...


No, I think we all understand that the marriage needed the attention of both of you and both of you probably didn't nurture it like you should have.

But her cheating is on HER, and cheating is a very big freaking slap in your face. She IS the only one at fault for her decision have sex with another man. That's not on you, that's on her. If there were problems in the marriage, then F'ing other men wasn't the way to deal with it. 




> I sleep on the couch because I love her. Not because she loves me, or even whether she loves me.


Here is the thing, since she went out and got strange, SHE should be the one to offer up sleeping on the couch. If I had cheated on someone, I'd feel like even more of a sh!theel to let my betrayed partner sleep on the couch.




> Sure I hurt. I'm emotionally drained and some days are better than others. Sure I want to sleep in my bed again but I promised her many years ago that i would love her unconditionally. She loved me through these intervening years, now it's time for me to pay it back.


She loved you through all those years..........then went and f'd another man.

But if this is the way you feel, then pay it back, have sex when she wants it, and act like nothing happened.

You can't love her unconditionally......with conditions or doubts. But do what you think you gotta do. Good luck with that.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

So I guess my question is, what is SHE doing to make this up to you? 
What is she doing to show that it will not happen again?

Is she refraining from any activities that are more conducive to cheating? Is she coming home and acting like a wife?
Is she going out with friends drinking or partying without you?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> She stopped seeing him 3 weeks after I found out.


Why didn't she stop seeing him WHEN you found out? Why didn't you demand it end right then and there?



> She was counseled (and I agree) that she was unable to work on both her marriage and herself simultaneously so what she needed was some space and some time.


To do what?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

the sad thing is, that I was there too in denial.

I had my ex wife cheat on me (cybercheating) and my ex long term relationship cheated on me physically. People then were telling me it's no good. Cheaters are (with rare exceptions) too badly damaged to thrive in a real relationship.

But I remember how hard it was for me to finally get that. I was different. She was different. I learned the real hard way for sure.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"But I remember how hard it was for me to finally get that. I was different. She was different. I learned the real hard way for sure."

I agree...it is very hard to really fathom or accept that there is something fundamentally DIFFERENT in people who can commit the act of betrayal in any form, including infidelity.

I am so conditioned to accept and live/act with loyalty and honesty towards those I have bonds of blood or friendship with, much less marital vows, that I have a hard time even rationally picturing a mindset that could justify doing the opposite.

And it is something deep down that is different.

Have I ever been super pi**ed off and irate at friends/family?...of course.

Have I ever been severely disappointed in them or dissatisfied with having to live for a period of time dealing with the repercussions of their behavior?...sure, of course.

Who hasn't had these moments?

But it has NEVER, not even in my most frustrated moments, crossed my mind to betray them or deceive/manipulate them for my own betterment or satisfaction.

HOW can one do such things?

I will never understand their thinking, but I am well aware of the fact traitors exist and am prepared yo cut people out of my life permanently once they do it to me.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> But I am willing to forgive her... if she wants it.


This tells a lot about your current state and frame of mind. You will look back at this in a few months and cringe at this statement. 

Read this thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/121442-no-sex-after-her-affair.html


Should I link the Ally_babe18 and dingerdad's threads too ?


Not saying that she is lying now but to show what a person says shouldn't be trusted at face value, especially if the person had no problems having sex with other people without any issues and only stopped because they got caught. 

She took 3 weeks to make a decision to reconcile after shegot caught ? Perhaps maybe she got dumped and she had no other option but you ? Would it make a difference ?


Who is her lover ? How did they meet ? How do you know the affair is not going on right now ?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Healer said:


> Yeah, I dig. The whole thing is just weird and unsettling and kinda gross. It's weird to look back at your mindset - so different from now. I was in a fog of my own, I guess.
> 
> Are you in R or are you guys over?


Dead and buried. Horrible ending.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I think Mr. Blindsided's wife must have caught him on the computer and now he's apologizing to her for that, too.

The whole situation is backwards and irrational.

If you ever come back, consider how quick you are to take on responsibility compared to her. You weren't perfect. Of course. Was she? Is she sorry she drove you to imperfection?

Geez. You wife committed adultery. She desecrated your marriage and her own morals. Stomped them both in the mud, then wiped her feet on you.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

As the world turns........and yet another Nice Guy bites the dust.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think the OP has done a great job. What a gentleman. What a kind, caring, mature man. He saw his wife's fragility and has the patience and inner security to help her heal.

He is not excusing her actions. But he does not require a pound of flesh to get past it.

I think he is a great example for the men of TAM. His wife is seeking him out. He is reaping the rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

jld said:


> I think the OP has done a great job. What a gentleman. What a kind, caring, mature man. He saw his wife's fragility and has the patience and inner security to help her heal.
> 
> He is not excusing her actions. But he does not require a pound of flesh to get past it.
> 
> I think he is a great example for the men of TAM. His wife is seeking him out. He is reaping the rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.



OP's wife would agree with this position. 

I warn men of TAM this is not the position to take. The wife brought this upon the marriage by stepping out. She is not a victim and her healing is her own concern. 

He is just beginning to experience the most emasculating thing a male can experience. His actions are common initial reactions in order to minimize the realization of the situation and the pain.

I'm concerned about his wounds from this and his very long healing process. He does need great introspection, self control and compassion for in order to heal himself. 

His salvation lies in his self improvement as a man.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Blindsidedandcrushed said:


> I am glad of the reactions this is getting but I'm a little shocked. Everyone just assumes she is the only one here at fault...
> 
> Not the case. I made my mistakes over the course of years and years. Admittedly they were mostly unintentional and done in ignorance, but the effect was still a slow crushing of her spirit.
> 
> ...



With this attitude she is going to cut your heart out with a spoon and feed it to a stray cat.

And giggle while doing it

55


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> With this attitude she is going to cut your heart out with a spoon and feed it to a stray cat. And giggle while doing it


This interpretation seems pretty extreme and far fetched but, alas, not unusual for these forums.

Let's help with some questions that might illuminate the truth rather than jumping to conclusions about someone who is not even part of the discussion.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

jld said:


> I think the OP has done a great job. What a gentleman. What a kind, caring, mature man. He saw his wife's fragility and has the patience and inner security to help her heal.
> 
> He is not excusing her actions. But he does not require a pound of flesh to get past it.
> 
> I think he is a great example for the men of TAM. His wife is seeking him out. He is reaping the rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.


And all she had to do is fvck another man to get his attention

Good for her problem solved

This is sarcasm right ?

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> This interpretation seems pretty extreme and far fetched but, alas, not unusual for these forums.
> 
> Let's help with some questions that might illuminate the truth rather than jumping to conclusions about someone who is not even part of the discussion.


As if fvcking another man is not extreme!

The point is for him to defend himself

55


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> As if fvcking another man is not extreme! The point is for him to defend himself


Well, I don't agree that is the point. Ideally, he should find a way to repair the marriage. I have seen nothing which would preclude that possibility.

I agree, though, that his wife's actions are bad ("extreme") and that he needs to be cautious in reconciling with her, in trusting her again. The worst case is that the marriage is not reparable. But there will be time enough to deal with that later if it proves to be the case.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

jld said:


> I think the OP has done a great job. What a gentleman. What a kind, caring, mature man. He saw his wife's fragility and has the patience and inner security to help her heal.
> 
> He is not excusing her actions. But he does not require a pound of flesh to get past it.
> 
> I think he is a great example for the men of TAM. His wife is seeking him out. He is reaping the rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.


Your posts don't even make me angry anymore. They just make me burst out laughing. Seriously, you're hilarious.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> This interpretation seems pretty extreme and far fetched but, alas, not unusual for these forums.
> 
> Let's help with some questions that might illuminate the truth rather than jumping to conclusions about someone who is not even part of the discussion.


Clearly you haven't read many threads on here.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> Ideally, *he* should find a way to repair the marriage.


Indeed! Get to work OP. You've screwed this marriage up by not meeting your WW's emotional needs. Now it's time to step up and repair the damage you've caused. Hop to.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Healer said:


> Clearly you haven't read many threads on here.


Clearly you haven't read hers.

I'm sure we'll hear all about how if he were trained properly, he'd take his treats when they're offered like a good boy.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

jld said:


> I think the OP has done a great job. What a gentleman. What a kind, caring, mature man. He saw his wife's fragility and has the patience and inner security to help her heal.
> 
> He is not excusing her actions. But he does not require a pound of flesh to get past it.
> 
> I think he is a great example for the men of TAM. His wife is seeking him out. He is reaping the rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.




So, similarly, he should have his own affair thereby allowing his wife to do her own reaping of rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.

Win, win for both.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> Well, I don't agree that is the point. Ideally, he should find a way to repair the marriage. I have seen nothing which would preclude that possibility.
> 
> I agree, though, that his wife's actions are bad ("extreme") and that he needs to be cautious in reconciling with her, in trusting her again. The worst case is that the marriage is not reparable. But there will be time enough to deal with that later if it proves to be the case.


Sorry you misunderstood/misinterpreted my point
but that is exactly the point I was making.OP must see the reality 
of his wife's betrayal for what it is.

So it's his responsibility to repair the marriage after she has brought a third person into it?:scratchhead:

If that is your point Then no I don't understand

55


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Ladies, what you see the OP doing is what a husband might be expected to do if *HE* cheated.

I feel like I am living in a bizarro world.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> Sorry you misunderstood/misinterpreted my point but that is exactly the point I was making. OP must see the reality of his wife's betrayal for what it is.
> 
> So it's his responsibility to repair the marriage after she has brought a third person into it?
> 
> If that is your point Then no I don't understand


I am concerned that so many in these forums seem determined to steer people towards divorce.

If OP is ready to do what it takes to achieve a reconciliation then it makes no sense to discourage that. From his description, the wife is offering to do her part.

I doubt you know the wife better than OP but you can certainly offer possibilities based on your own experience. What I mean is that you should suggest ways for him to test her sincerity instead of just assuming the worst.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aug said:


> So, similarly, he should have his own affair thereby allowing his wife to do her own reaping of rewards of introspection, self-control and compassion.
> 
> Win, win for both.


How would that help him? Two wrongs make a right?

She cut off her own hand, and he should cut off his, so they can be equal?

You do not think she is going through major introspection, with all that counseling?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

ladymisato said:


> I am concerned that so many in these forums seem determined to steer people towards divorce.
> 
> If OP is ready to do what it takes to achieve a reconciliation then it makes no sense to discourage that. From his description, the wife is offering to do her part.
> 
> I doubt you know the wife better than OP but you can certainly offer possibilities based on your own experience. What I mean is that you should suggest ways for him to test her sincerity instead of just assuming the worst.


I never mentioned a word about D or R for that matter

most of the long time posters here just want the BS not to be steamrolled rug swept or in denial

Thats all. They can make up their own minds when their head is clear and know as many facts as possible.

As far as assuming the worst I would just say prepare for the worst 

55


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> As far as assuming the worst I would just say prepare for the worst


A subtle but crucial distinction. I think we're on the same page now.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

jld said:


> How would that help him? Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> She cut off her own hand, and he should cut off his, so they can be equal?
> 
> You do not think she is going through major introspection, with all that counseling?



whoosh...


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

jld said:


> How would that help him? Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> She cut off her own hand, and he should cut off his, so they can be equal?
> 
> You do not think she is going through major introspection, with all that counseling?


She didn't cut off her hand, she cut off *his*. (And something other than his hand, TBH). Rewarding bad behavior is never a good idea. OP is demonstrating he has no value and no better options. 

What he's doing would be great after true remorse. Not after a half-hearted "well, ok, maybe" approach to R.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Vulcan2013 said:


> She didn't cut off her hand, she cut off *his*. (And something other than his hand, TBH). Rewarding bad behavior is never a good idea. OP is demonstrating he has no value and no better options.
> 
> What he's doing would be great after true remorse. Not after a half-hearted "well, ok, maybe" approach to R.


I disagree. He is a mature man. He sees how fragile she is right now, and does not ask more than he knows she can give. And she _is_ giving. And he knows it is heartfelt.

I think OP knows his value and does not need someone to tell him he has it. He seems pretty secure to me.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Healer said:


> Your posts don't even make me angry anymore. They just make me burst out laughing. Seriously, you're hilarious.


Kudos to the TAM members. They aren't even biting the hook anymore.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

I once read an article somewhere titled "Woman: The Most Responsible Teenager In The House." Seemed to be an inflammatory piece based on 1800's era psychology. 

As controversial as that article was, it seems to be basically what a couple of posters on here are currently peddling. The wife is "fragile" because she is a woman, so this should excuse her from doing any of the heavy lifting required to repair the damage *she* inflicted. 

So the strapping mature man must now step up and be responsible for her healing and find a way to repair the marriage. Got it.

In other news:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ripper, her own husband has told us this. And he is okay with her rate of progress. Just because _you_ would not be okay with it does not mean _he_ is not. And _he_ is the one who matters here.


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