# How Long Does It Take?



## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

This is very hard for me to write as it brings up a lot of my old demons. A little over a year ago my H found out I was cheating. I had been on medication that affected my dopamine levels and affected my judgement. I don't excuse myself from what I've done but I guess it made it easier for my H to accept my apologies and believe me when I said I wanted to make it work. I also wonder if his confession to me that he had an affair 23 years ago made it easier to forgive me. We have been together for 30 years and the past year has been wonderful rediscovering ourselves as a couple. I cut off all contact with OM and have focused on being the wife my H deserves.

I recently met a young woman who had a similar experience to mine except her H had never cheated and she didn't have any other excuses to explain her behavior. Again, I don't use the excuse ~ I knew what I was doing was wrong and chose to do it. Anyways, 2 years ago my friend was caught cheating. She confessed her wrongdoing, vowed NC with the OM and has stuck to that, trying to rebuild her marriage. She has given complete access to phone, text, emails, computer, etc to her H. Her H says he wants to stay together and that he loves her but after 2 years he tends to throw it back in her face if they are in an argument. He won't go to counseling with her and she has gone on her own a couple times. But her H says it's her problem, not his. 

My heart goes out to this woman who is so sorry for the pain she has caused and has tried to make up for it, but keeps having it thrown in her face. She knows she brought this on herself but she is beginning to think it would be better if she left. She only wants to make her H happy but it seems nothing she does works.

I feel my viewpoint is skewed because my H has been so willing to forgive and work towards making our marriage what it once was. I don't know if it's reasonable for her H to still bring up his hurt and act this way after 2 years of continued fidelity. It seems to me he uses her infidelity as a weapon when he's angry. So I'm looking for advice from those who have been the victim of cheating and successfully salved their marriage. How long does it take?

Thanks


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It generally takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity. Some recover faster, some take longer to recover.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

In some ways, i want to say your friend made her bed, now she must sleep in it. But responding to legitimate arguments about current issues by throwing infidelity from yeasr ago into her face is not appropriate and needs to stop. At some point she needs to have a conversation where she says to him she can't continue in this vein. She needs to decide how long is too long and he needs to know the consequences of these continued attacks.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'll point out that this is second hand information and that we don't have the BH version of the story either.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

I realize this is second hand and my husband always tells me there are two sides to every story so I get that. And yes, she constantly acknowledges she brought this on herself. But she is getting worn down by trying and feeling like she isn't making any progress. 

One example of his throwing it in her face is they caught their 15 yo daughter in a lie. He told my friend she raised her daughter to be just like herself...a liar. Last night she wanted to shower before being intimate and he asked if she minded if OM was clean before performing oral sex (he was a bit more graphic). At this she told him she thought the comment uncalled for. 

I thought specific examples might be helpful to those offering advice.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Think about it. You don't know the details about her affair, you don't know the details of the aftermath (breaking NC?, trickle truth- torture?...). That being said 2 years after the fact sound too much. Do you know whwter her husband was this way already verbally emotionaly?
Tell her to start a journal to log every blow below the belt. Date/hour/content.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Doing this third hand is not as helpful. Can you invite her to come here?



WhatsHerName said:


> Last night she wanted to shower before being intimate and he asked if she minded if OM was clean before performing oral sex (he was a bit more graphic). At this she told him she thought the comment uncalled for.


This could be way out of the line or maybe not far off if she's not fully disclosing.

A common element of affairs is that the wayward will do things for the OM/OW that they won't do for their spouse. Is she insistent that hubby be clean before anything happens yet jumped right into a BJ with the OM? Did he have an inkling that this may have happened?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

WhatsHerName said:


> One example of his throwing it in her face is they caught their 15 yo daughter in a lie. He told my friend she raised her daughter to be just like herself...a liar. Last night she wanted to shower before being intimate and he asked if she minded if OM was clean before performing oral sex (he was a bit more graphic). At this she told him she thought the comment uncalled for.
> 
> I thought specific examples might be helpful to those offering advice.


Then this is an example of why its not a good idea to complain a spouse to a friend, she should be communicating this to her BH. Perhaps this type of behavior is what caused her to confide in another man and how the affair started. She needs to work this out with him.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I don't know if it's reasonable for her H to still bring up his hurt and act this way after 2 years of continued fidelity. It seems to me he uses her infidelity as a weapon when he's angry.


It sounds like he isn't ready to rebuild; they haven't yet worked through all his issues. He needs something more in order to move past this stage, or to have it be less and less frequent. 

Maybe he thinks she hasn't expressed enough remorse, or hasn't reassured him enough that she is attracted to him and doesn't want OM. Maybe there's something he needs her to say or do, or something he needs to know or believe. 

Have they been to counseling?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Once betrayed, a spouse may well look for a repeat of it in just about any indifference he or she experiences from a SO.
Of course, I have no experience in reconciliation, so my views may well be jaded.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Some people never get over it, and those relationships are doomed.

My ex and I separated over 6 months ago, and he still throws it in my face, and in front of the kids.....yep. Your friend of course needs to face the consequences, but throwing that in her face is not helping the marriage recover.

She may have to leave, it's only going to cause her to feel more guilt, and possibly lead to other self-destructive behaviors.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

norajane said:


> Have they been to counseling?


She has been to a counselor who told her she was experiencing shame (as opposed to guilt??). Her H has refused to go to counseling as he works in the metal health industry and is afraid of his co-workers knowing he is seeking counseling.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> Doing this third hand is not as helpful. Can you invite her to come here?


I have told her about TAM and suggested she read. I also asked if I could post on her behalf in hopes of getting some ideas of how she might proceed to save her marriage. I know she really does want to make it work but is starting to get worn down.

I just feel so lucky that my H was willing to fight for our marriage and that I woke up to how stupid I was being. I know she feels horrible about what she did and I hate to see her lose everything when I've been able to gain so much.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> I hate to see her lose everything when I've been able to gain so much


You get it. At lest she has a really good friend, a more grown up person that was for a while.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

He understandably resents her. It's very difficult to "reconcile" when you don't know what you did wrong. You said she doesn't know why she cheated. In the mentality of the betrayed spouse, the ultimate quest is to get the "why". When there isn't a why, it's very difficult to understand why the person you loved with all of your heart could punish you so cruelly. What he goes through with the mental images, the paranoia and the constant heartache dwarfs anything she goes through. 

That being said, they're not properly reconciling and it's clear the pain is just too much for her husband. I don't understand why he chose to reconcile, maybe the financial fallout of divorce would be too much. Either-way, the both of them have to have a serious discussion as to where their relationship is heading.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Complexity said:


> You said she doesn't know why she cheated. In the mentality of the betrayed spouse, the ultimate quest is to get the "why". When there isn't a why, it's very difficult to understand why the person you loved with all of your heart could punish you so cruelly.


Also, if she doesn't understand why she did it, how can she confidently say she won't get to the point where she does it again? He can't trust her enough. 

It's an unresolved core issue. She might need to find another counselor if she isn't getting anywhere with this one. After 2 years, she should have some understanding of why she cheated. She's feeling shame or guilt, fine. She and her therapist need to dig deeper and figure out why she brought that on herself and her marriage. Having an affair filled some compelling want or need that she didn't choose to work on with her husband. She needs to know what that is, and why she thought an affair was better than working on her marriage. And then she needs to work on fixing that part of herself.

Hey, if she had her head turned by a charming man and was needy enough for the validation that she chose the selfish route, he needs to hear that. And then he needs to see her work on that need for external validation. If things were rocky in their marriage and she was too immature to work on things and chose an affair as an escape, he needs to understand that she has very poor conflict resolution skills. And then he needs to see her work on being better at addressing problems.

Whatever it is, their marriage won't get better until they get to dealing with the reasons for the affair.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Complexity said:


> He understandably resents her. It's very difficult to "reconcile" when you don't know what you did wrong. *You said she doesn't know why she cheated. In the mentality of the betrayed spouse, the ultimate quest is to get the "why". When there isn't a why, it's very difficult to understand why the person you loved with all of your heart could punish you so cruelly*. What he goes through with the mental images, the paranoia and the constant heartache dwarfs anything she goes through.
> 
> That being said, they're not properly reconciling and it's clear the pain is just too much for her husband. I don't understand why he chose to reconcile, maybe the financial fallout of divorce would be too much. Either-way, the both of them have to have a serious discussion as to where their relationship is heading.



This.

And he is really pissed off, still.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Complexity said:


> That being said, they're not properly reconciling and it's clear the pain is just too much for her husband. I don't understand why he chose to reconcile, maybe the financial fallout of divorce would be too much. Either-way, the both of them have to have a serious discussion as to where their relationship is heading.


If we go by a lot of newbie threads that are similar to this situation, the BH, most likely in shock and denial, initially begged and pleaded for his WW to stay. Then he rugswept. Then perhaps this is his resentment starting to come out, as we all have learned, never works. So I agree, they may not be in True R. This is just a guess, but its a good guess I think considering the predictable BS script we see here time and time again.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I really think her husband shouldn't throw her cheating to her face everytime they have an argument. It's called manipulation.
If he agreed to take her back, he must stick by his choise otherwise he should have left.

I can understand his pain very well, but it's not a healthy life to remain a victim. I can feel no sympathy for the woman, to be honest, but it isn't right for her husband to manipulate her into winning arguments by rubbing it in her face.
It's also, I don't know how to say it, but not elegant to use his pain to inflict pain on others.
Still, it can be the price for messing up with someone's soul.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

A few things, Whatshername. 1. Instead of worrying about how long it will take, she should be worrying about how to help her husband heal. She still seems unfeeling in that regard. 2. She shouldn't be talking about her and her husband's intimate issues to a stranger. YOU shouldn't even KNOW about the shower/bj thing. 3. Why does she feel that she deserves an emotional "pat-on-the-back", for being a faithful wife for 2 years, when she was a proven cheater, before? A sense of entitlement,perhaps? 4. It is obvious that her husband still has trust and anger issues. So what has she done to ease his mind? 5. I agree strongly with Norajane. if , after two years of counseling, she still doesn't know why she cheated, it's time to get a new counselor. 6. Her husband can never be sure of her loyalty, until they both know and have overcome the issues that caused the affair. These are just a few of the issues causing his behavior.


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## TexasFlyer (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok - He obviously hasn't moved on and needs help doing it. If he is stuck, there is probably something that she hasn't been fully honest in revealing - e.g. Trickle Truths. Did they ever have a full disclosure? If not, tell them with the help of a therapist that they need this. He needs this to move one becaue his 'brain' hasn't been silenced.. He probably feels there is more.. I understand how he feels, I felt horribly inadequate for years after my wife cheated.. EVENTHOUGH I knew it had zero to do with me, but still felt a lower status in the relationship. It sounds like he is using negative, passive-aggressive, tactics to make sure he is on equal ground. It's not healthy for anyone, but if your friend hasn't disclosed all, she is still sabotaging their relationship.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

WhatsHerName said:


> She has been to a counselor who told her she was experiencing shame (as opposed to guilt??). *Her H has refused to go to counseling as he works in the metal health industry and is afraid of his co-workers knowing he is seeking counseling.*


He works in mental health but is afraid his colleagues will find out he is seeking counseling? I'm sorry, but that is messed up.

First, how would they find out? Counseling is confidential, and the therapist revealing anything to anybody is illegal. 

Second, so what if they knew? Why would people who work in the field see any sort of stigma about seeking therapy? and so what if they did? 

And third, are his colleagues views more important than his peace of mind and marriage?

Why is he really resisting MC?


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

Complexity said:


> He understandably resents her. It's very difficult to "reconcile" when you don't know what you did wrong.


Are you referring to her or him? She definitely knows what she did wrong, and what she did was wrong and why it was wrong.



> You said she doesn't know why she cheated.


I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I said she doesn't have any "excuse" for cheating that her H can point to and say "you weren't in full control of your mental state and can't be held fully accountable for your actions". She knows why she cheated and that those reasons were just lame excuses.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

norajane said:


> He works in mental health but is afraid his colleagues will find out he is seeking counseling? I'm sorry, but that is messed up.
> 
> First, how would they find out? Counseling is confidential, and the therapist revealing anything to anybody is illegal.
> 
> ...


Actually he did tell her he wouldn't go to counseling because it was her problem, not his. She is the one who cheated so she is the one who has to fix it. 

As for his not wanting to go for fear of being outted to his co-workers, he is an accountant for a county mental health agency ~ he's not a mental health provider. But the area they live in all the mental health care is provided through the county. She says it's a combination of his feelings of it not being his problem and not wanting to have to explain to co-workers why he is seeking counseling that he uses as an excuse.

Again, one side of the story but I've known a fair number of people who hold this view.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

TexasFlyer said:


> Ok - He obviously hasn't moved on and needs help doing it. If he is stuck, there is probably something that she hasn't been fully honest in revealing - e.g. Trickle Truths. Did they ever have a full disclosure? If not, tell them with the help of a therapist that they need this. He needs this to move one becaue his 'brain' hasn't been silenced.. He probably feels there is more.. I understand how he feels, I felt horribly inadequate for years after my wife cheated.. EVENTHOUGH I knew it had zero to do with me, but still felt a lower status in the relationship. It sounds like he is using negative, passive-aggressive, tactics to make sure he is on equal ground. It's not healthy for anyone, but if your friend hasn't disclosed all, she is still sabotaging their relationship.


Truly only SHE knows the answer to this. She says she fully disclosed everything, broke off all contact, and has given full transparency. From what he says sometimes though I believe HE may think there is something she hasn't disclosed.


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## WhatsHerName (Jun 20, 2011)

Badblood said:


> A few things, Whatshername. 1. Instead of worrying about how long it will take, she should be worrying about how to help her husband heal. She still seems unfeeling in that regard. 2. She shouldn't be talking about her and her husband's intimate issues to a stranger. YOU shouldn't even KNOW about the shower/bj thing. 3. Why does she feel that she deserves an emotional "pat-on-the-back", for being a faithful wife for 2 years, when she was a proven cheater, before? A sense of entitlement,perhaps? 4. It is obvious that her husband still has trust and anger issues. So what has she done to ease his mind? 5. I agree strongly with Norajane. if , after two years of counseling, she still doesn't know why she cheated, it's time to get a new counselor. 6. Her husband can never be sure of her loyalty, until they both know and have overcome the issues that caused the affair. These are just a few of the issues causing his behavior.


1. *She *is not asking how long it takes ~ *I am*. We had similar backgrounds and my marriage is better than it has been in the past 10 years. I know there are some differences in circumstances so in trying to give her sound advice I'm trying to figure out what is reasonable (if that's even possible in something like this). If I base it off my own experience her H is being a ********* and not getting on with life. Hearing from others gives me a reality check.
2. Won't even touch that one. She is my friend and I'm someone who can understand what she has done like her other friends can't.
3. She isn't looking for an emotional pat on the back. She is talking about giving up on her marriage because she feels beaten and nothing she does helps the situation. If staying in the marriage is making her H miserable then maybe the answer is leaving.
4. The both of them know what she has done to be completely transparent. Some of the things I'm aware of are she goes nowhere alone except to work, he has full access to her phone, email, computer, etc., he controls who she is friends with.
5. I think there was a misunderstanding ~ I said she has been to counseling; not that she has been for the past 2 years. She has gone 3 times in the past month because she doesn't know what else to do to keep her marriage intact and wanted help. SHE KNOWS WHY SHE CHEATED. I never said she didn't. We all know why we cheat even if we don't admit it to ourselves.
6. I couldn't agree more and I'm just now beginning to understand the story before the affair and that may be more telling than anything.

I appreciate everyone's input. It's made me see things in a different light.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

WhatsHerName said:


> Are you referring to her or him? She definitely knows what she did wrong, and what she did was wrong and why it was wrong.


Him



> I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I said she doesn't have any "excuse" for cheating that her H can point to and say "you weren't in full control of your mental state and can't be held fully accountable for your actions". She knows why she cheated and that those reasons were just lame excuses.


It's the same difference. She couldn't come up with anything other than lame excuses, hence his resentment. Out of interest, what were those excuses? because if he was an abusive/neglectful husband or the marriage had deteriorated significantly then the BS can point to those and get some of the "why".


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Why can us - BSs - just imagine thie particular BS is over the top punishing his wayward, not coping, not reconciling, being abusive without puting it on the affair itself (also a for of abuse) or the way she dealt with the aftermath?
There are people, waywards and betrayed alike that are not cut for R. That simple. Marriage takes two, reconciliation takes 2, even more. Sometimes no amount of remorse, heavy lifting, making aments, empathy works. Sometimes BS get broken from the cheating, sometimes they were broken to begin with.
It's difficult to know from afar, that why I asked details abut her cheating/aftermath and a better picture of WS abusive behavior (it's abuse, let's face it). She needs a log of his verbal attacks to see better the trees from the forest. She obviously lacked of healthy boundaires. We can all acknowledge waywards have to be flexible while dealing with the consequences. She needs to protect herself too, to build better boundaires again.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

WhatsHerName said:


> Are you referring to her or him? She definitely knows what she did wrong, and what she did was wrong and why it was wrong.
> 
> I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I said she doesn't have any "excuse" for cheating that her H can point to and say "you weren't in full control of your mental state and can't be held fully accountable for your actions". She knows why she cheated and that those reasons were just lame excuses.


Maybe its a language issue on my part, but to me it sounds like you're taking this a bit light.

It's not the "Lame excuse" why's he needs to hear. Its the true reasons on a deeper personal level, basic assumptions about her, him and their relationship.

Thats what i want to hear, and its what can't have either. That makes it very difficult to move on.


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