# Bad Psychobabbling



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I have a friend who I fear his marriage is going down the dark side.

He saw everything I went though and experienced and I am doing my best to have him make any of the mistakes I did.

One thing I have noticed is that his wife will blame HIM for how she feels.

"You made me feel worthless." "You made me feel used." "You made me feel bad about my image."

And so on.

The problem I warned him of is the psychobabblists will often validate her by instructing him, "Well, whether you intended it or not, you made her feel that way so this is a shared problem. You need to be concerned for her feelings." (a platitude)

I feel that's very bad policy and reminds me of what Bill Clinton said of Trayvon Martin - basing any kind of policy (whether law or marriage) on how someone "feels" is bad policy.

"You felt threatened so you gunned him down? Well, there you have it. . .no more to it than that." (I know the Martin case was more complicated than that, but still I feel Bill Clinton was right on basing law on feelings is BAD LAW). 

Feelings are unverifiable, unexplainable, based on the time of the month, hormones, horny or not, star alignment. . .

"You felt worthless because he made a side comment? Well, there you have it. . .he must be some kind of ogre." I have him steer clear of that trap in marital therapy.

What other bad psychobabbling have you out there endured? (I have had good and bad)


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Welp, I think you gave him bad advice. It is a shared problem, not just his, and he does need to be concerned about her feelings. She needs to realize that *not all feelings are valid* and be ready to question why and not just accept them.
But yeah, if he was saying **** like "you look fat in those pants" or "Holy heck, you'd be sexy if you had a tan", then that would have had an impact on her body image and he would be an ogre. But, then, she would have to recognize that and do something about that.

It astounds me what people think they have the right to say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You don't know what has gone on between them in private. Maybe in private he does run her down and done things that are harmful to her.

Your best bet for you to stop trying to be his counselor and tell him that it's time for him and his wife to go to counseling. It would also be good to suggest the book "His Needs, Her Needs" for the two of them.

Then just be his friend. Let the counselor help him and her fix their marriage.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree partially. . .I don't know HER side of the story. . .I get that.

I disagree with the other stuff.

I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said, "Only you give the other person the power to offend you." or some misquote thereof.

I know him. Of COURSE he isn't saying, "Gee, you look like a fat cow in those jeans."

But I have seen women play that "emotional abuse" card so, so much and make it a part-time profession to take umbrage in whatever their man says (and bait him into it). 

I think psychology/therapists empowers this dysfunction.

Here. . .I'll show you:



> Then just be his friend. Let the counselor help him and her fix their marriage.


What, Elegirl? You think I'm a busy-body, don't you? Well, I'm just trying to help. I know I am not a counselor. I never said that! 

You must really have a low opinion of me, huh?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think that many people are very different with their spouse in private than they are with other people or in public. Mine certainly was. The truth is that you really have no way of knowing how either of them behaves behind closed doors. 

That said, saying he "makes" her feel X is probably her way of saying "When you say/do Y, I feel X." The former feels accusing to him and puts him on the defensive. The latter may or may not do the same, but is worded in the manner that your average MC is going to recommend. 

So, the question then becomes, what's he going to do about it? If his wife is telling him she feels worthless when he does something, is he really going to argue and insist on continuing to do it? Why, and what does that say about how he feels about his wife? Does he have a right to tell her that she doesn't feel that way, or that her feeling that way is worthless/invalid/stupid/crazy? They are her feelings, she gets to decide what she feels, when and why. However, what he does with the knowledge of how his behavior impacts her, really is on him. He can continue to insist that she "shouldn't" feel a certain way and that her feelings are not his problem. Or, he can work with her to repair their marriage. 

If she's really some crazy, raving, psycho-b!tch, though, one wonders why he married her in the first place? And why does he want to remain married? If he truly thinks there's nothing left to save or really doesn't think she's worth it, then why go to MC? Is he trying to "fix" her, shut her up, what? 

My guess is that it's their marital _dynamic _that is broken, rather than being either of their faults entirely. Encourage him to follow his MC's guidance, and work on the marital dynamic. And try very hard not to let your own emotional baggage influence you to give him too much advice.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Scannerguard said:


> Here. . .I'll show you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"You feel attacked. I'm sorry my words made you feel that way. I did not mean to put you on the defensive. I do believe that you should stay out of it. However, I also realize that the choice to do so, or not, is entirely your own. And I respect your ability and right to make that decision for yourself." 
(hug and brief cuddle)

"Hey, do you want to go see the new Guardians of the Galaxy movie? I hear it's a scream!" 

OR: 

Angry defensive argument lasting the rest of the night, because you're just being crazy, she never said that, you always do this when she's just trying to help, she's wrong, you're wrong. There's no movie night, no hug and cuddle and everyone goes to bed seething. 


Dealer's choice....


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

I feel most of the general population do not communicate effectively. We say things we feel without regards to those who are close to us, it is not until someone points those flaws to us, that we begin to choose our words carefully.
I have learned great communications tools here at TAM, I also also learned many things about myself. Sadly, it is not until we face a life-changing event that we seek help.

It is not bad psychobabbling. It is life. It could be the truth. There are always three sides to a story: Side A, Side B, and the truth.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> What, Elegirl? You think I'm a busy-body, don't you? Well, I'm just trying to help. I know I am not a counselor. I never said that!
> 
> You must really have a low opinion of me, huh?


Nope, I don't have a low opinion of you at all. I just think it's very easy for all of us to take our friend's side on things. But we don't always know the whole truth of what is going on.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

Scannerguard said:


> "You felt worthless because he made a side comment? Well, there you have it. . .he must be some kind of ogre." I have him steer clear of that trap in marital therapy.
> 
> What other bad psychobabbling have you out there endured? (I have had good and bad)


MC therapy can be where couples see the ultimate end / the final straw. I get what you mean there. Some MC can be at times, directed towards ending marriages rather than helping them see what's good in marriage and help resolve problems.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

ne9907 said:


> I feel most of the general population do not communicate effectively.


Cannot agree more. Some people don't do "communication" at all perhaps, amongst more men predominantly: I do not think peeps / men on a site like this are regular men, who are prone to stay quiet. Perhaps, there are more men or others who would fear that communication about something negative would lead to only conflicts rather than producing understanding and rapport that is a huge red flag to me. 

Imho, you/we should carry on as you/we are - so long as you/we are being sincere and genuine not hurting anybody but there are always those who won't tell you they didn't like what you might have said no matter what. I'd steer clear of these people.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Gee, I dunno.... 
By the time my divorce was imminent and decided for me, my ex wife had been dating already, and still acted like she was in love with me. 
I remember years worth of stonewalling, being upset and yet always saying it was not my fault, sometimes to the point of being frustrated at me for asking, or trying to help.

I don't know that a husband necessarily HAS to have some fault or blame in the divorce process. Women are just as faulty and prone to mistakes as men...
Seems to me a lot of misandry going on here.
Some women wont let you be mindful of their feelings, as they will not share.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah, you could well be right - this may happen in both males & females. Utterly dreadful, why could they just say they wanted out instead of staying to make our life a living hell?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

My friend who is a counselor, who helped me through my divorce, said it quite nicely.

Some people go into counseling, and there is this assumption that 50% of the problem is with both parties. And all of the counseling is dealt equally so that both people have an equal burden and 50% of the workload.

Well the truth is, some people are 90% of the problem in the marriage, and if you spend half the time talking to the other person and making them do 50% of the work, you're not going to get anywhere.

Not sure that applies in your situation, as you've told us nothing about your friends wife. But just saying in general counseling needs to be directed at specific issues and solving them, and sometimes that issue isn't both parties'.

A good counselor will see that in a session and draw it out tactfully. Unfortunately, not all counselors are good counselors.

Tape recording arguments could be a very useful tool for your friend. I taped my last arguments with my wife because I was being accused of so many awful things. I listened to the tapes expecting to hear me being a smarmy a$$hole. Instead, I heard a gentle guy trying to communicate effectively and being ridiculed for it. It was my proof that I wasn't crazy.

Again, not saying that's what's going on here, but a lot can be learned from going back and listening to old arguments. Tapes don't lie.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

COguy said:


> My friend who is a counselor, who helped me through my divorce, said it quite nicely.
> 
> Some people go into counseling, and there is this assumption that 50% of the problem is with both parties. And all of the counseling is dealt equally so that both people have an equal burden and 50% of the workload.
> 
> Well the truth is, some people are 90% of the problem in the marriage, and if you spend half the time talking to the other person and making them do 50% of the work, you're not going to get anywhere.


Abso-fvcking-lutely.

Honestly, i thought I was to blame for my marriage crumbling, but your 90/10% makes sense. I do not want to blame EVERYTHING on ex because I was there. But I totally agree.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

I was also told at one point (it may have even been here):

The responsibility of maintaining the marriage is a 50-50 split.
But any given ISSUE the marriage faces likely will not be.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hmm, so if your wife tells you that you have a small d!ck and suck in bed the crappy feelings that follow are your problem to deal with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrlonelyhearts (Apr 12, 2012)

I had a therapist tell me over and over again, "You can only do your part." What she meant was that, when I was trying to "fix things"or "make it right," that I can only do my part in promoting the healing. She did not respond to my efforts; ie; "that's too little too late." Check out Divorce Busting® - Walk-Away Wife Syndrome - Wife Ending Marriage.

So, in my mind it doesn't really matter how much blame to put on either parties. Each has a piece to work on if they so chose. If they chose not to work on anything, the marriage will eventually end.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

COguy said:


> Again, not saying that's what's going on here, but a lot can be learned from going back and listening to old arguments. Tapes don't lie.


Some people can't be honourable enough to say "I'm unhappy with you and this marriage with you isn't working out and there's nothing you or I can do at this point and I want out". Instead, these people play all kinds of games to drive you totally insane and make your marriage unbearable to stay in it until you are at the breaking point. Extremely manipulative.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm sorry, I don't get it at all!!
So what you're saying is that if a wife tells her husband he makes her feel used and worthless then it's psychobabble! Really?
My husband made me feel unimportant and unwelcome yesterday for something. No psychobabble. He was being a d1ck and I called him out on it and he apologised. Done!
If that's the way she feels then so be it.
It's all about the communication though.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

My wife used to use that one on me all the time.

"I feel angry" is a statement of fact.
"I feel like you are making me angry." is an accusation and blame-shifting.

The MC didn't see the difference, either.


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