# Confused



## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

I’m struggling with truly understanding where my marriage stands and whether or not I should stay and try to work things out or move on. We’ve been together for 24 years and married for 19. We have completely grown apart and with our kids all grown up, we’ve realized that we have nothing in common. We’ve been in counseling for 7 months and although we’ve learned to communicate better, we haven’t made any real progress in regards to the marriage. We’re essentially roommates at this point and aren’t romantically connected in any way. It’s hard to think about getting a divorce because there has been no real “issue” except for the fact that we’ve grown apart and don’t really seem to want to spend time together but neither of us seems to want to end the marriage either. I’m tired of being in this space and need some advice. Thoughts??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Could you both afford to divorce? How would your children feel?


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Yes we can afford to divorce (I mean our lifestyles would change obviously but I don’t want money to be a factor) and we’ve talked to the kids about our current state of affairs and they just want us to do what will make us happy.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

KW2020 said:


> neither of us seems to want to end the marriage either.
> 
> there has been no real “issue” except for the fact that we’ve grown apart


Do you both want the marriage? Do you both want the marriage to work and meet both your needs ?

You may call me an "incurable romantic", or a "little church boy"...... but I believe, if this is what you both want, you can have it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you’re not compatible get out and quit wasting your life. Where do you want to be 5 years from now?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Has anyone cheated in the marriage?


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Has anyone cheated in the marriage?


Not that I’m aware.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> If you’re not compatible get out and quit wasting your life. Where do you want to be 5 years from now?


I think those same thoughts all the time. Just hard to think about making that change but one that I feel is necessary at this time.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

TJW said:


> Do you both want the marriage? Do you both want the marriage to work and meet both your needs ?
> 
> You may call me an "incurable romantic", or a "little church boy"...... but I believe, if this is what you both want, you can have it.


I feel like I still want the marriage to an extent but he’s not putting in any effort whatsoever to move forward. Even our therapist says it’s not going to work if I’m the only one trying. He’s focused on our sex life and focused on rebuilding a long term connection where we actually enjoy one another’s company again and have things in common.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> I feel like I still want the marriage to an extent but he’s not putting in any effort whatsoever to move forward. Even our therapist says it’s not going to work if I’m the only one trying. He’s focused on our sex life and focused on rebuilding a long term connection where we actually enjoy one another’s company again and have things in common.


They are both important, going forward, if you want things to work.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

hubbyintrubby said:


> They are both important, going forward, if you want things to work.


Yes I agree but there is no effort on his part to make any other kind of connection with me besides having sex.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> Yes I agree but there is no effort on his part to make any other kind of connection with me besides having sex.


OK, but are you putting in any additional effort into his need for physical connection?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

_It's sad when the only type of connection a spouse wants to make is sex. It just doesn't work that way with most women, but you'll occasionally hear a guy on here say sex is the main reason a man gets married. All the huge big picture of family and responsibility and building a life is secondary to some of them. The thing is, he must be middle-aged by now, and though he may well be able to go out and find a new woman who will be excited to have sex with him for a while, he'd have to be pretty lucky to find one that that worked out with for the long term at his age. But he might feel better just trying. You might feel better with the pressure off. If even your counselor is finding him hopeless, you at least have to consider if you'd be happier apart. 

Whatever you do, don't sacrifice so much that you make yourself unhappy just so he can be more content. If there is no comfort zone at this point, it may be time to live separate lives. Good luck._


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

There are tons of post of husband's here whose sexual needs are not met. You can read and understand how important a sexual connection is for them. It's not just "sex" it's one of their most important needs in a relationship. What are you doing to connect in this way? 

What are your needs? What are his needs?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> If you’re not compatible get out and quit wasting your life. Where do you want to be 5 years from now?





KW2020 said:


> I think those same thoughts all the time. Just hard to think about making that change but one that I feel is necessary at this time.


Sometimes these doors open and close simply because they were meant to. One can spend the time trying to simply exist or one can accept that roomate status is not a choice we choose to finish this life in.

I am not one to promote divorce, but if only one is really wanting change then the ending will not (change).


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

KW2020 said:


> I think those same thoughts all the time. Just hard to think about making that change but one that I feel is necessary at this time.


Some have a hard time making a decision and effectively lock themselves in limbo. 

You are the only one that can keep yourself in that state.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> Some have a hard time making a decision and effectively lock themselves in limbo.
> 
> You are the only one that can keep yourself in that state.


You’re absolutely correct. I am only in control of myself and have the power to change my situation any time I want. Just very difficult to know and feel what is the right thing to do.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> All the huge big picture of family and responsibility and building a life is secondary to some of them.


In my mind and perspective, as a man, the "huge big picture" cannot even be envisioned until there is sex. Those are the things I agreed to GIVE HER in order to have sex. I didn't want any of them. In fact, I vehemently resent having the "family", the "big picture", the "responsibility", and the "building", in the absence of sex.



pastasauce79 said:


> It's not just "sex" it's one of their most important needs in a relationship.


No, it's not "one of".... it is THE ONLY need I have in the relationship. Everything else talked about here is FOR HER. I don't need it, I don't want it. I supply these things at a personal sacrifice of my time, energy, resources, and they are pretty much just an obstacle in the way of what I REALLY want.

Unless you are willing to provide your husband sex in the same sacrificial way you expect him to supply all the rest of this ? Just do both of you a favor and get a divorce.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Sometimes these doors open and close simply because they were meant to. One can spend the time trying to simply exist or one can accept that roomate status is not a choice we choose to finish this life in.
> 
> I am not one to promote divorce, but if only one is really wanting change then the ending will not (change).


I’ve been consistent in my efforts and doing the work in therapy and trying to rebuild our lost connection and he seems stuck on just the physical aspect of our relationship. He wants sex but doesn’t want to do any other repair work on our relationship.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> I’ve been consistent in my efforts and doing the work in therapy and trying to rebuild our lost connection and he seems stuck on just the physical aspect of our relationship. He wants sex but doesn’t want to do any other repair work on our relationship.


Right....and we want to know if you are doing any work on the physical aspect of your relationship. We get what he's not doing....we want to know what exactly you are doing.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

TJW said:


> In my mind and perspective, as a man, the "huge big picture" cannot even be envisioned until there is sex. Those are the things I agreed to GIVE HER in order to have sex. I didn't want any of them. In fact, I vehemently resent having the "family", the "big picture", the "responsibility", and the "building", in the absence of sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

And this is not the kind of perspective that is helpful. There needs to be more to a relationship than sex, especially after we’ve been together for 24 years. Sex is a physical act that allows a man his release but then what? What about the rest of our every day lives? What other connection do we have? That will not sustain our marriage long term.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Right....and we want to know if you are doing any work on the physical aspect of your relationship. We get what he's not doing....we want to know what exactly you are doing.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Unfortunately I don’t have any desire to be with him that way when he hasn’t tried to meet my emotional needs as a partner. We both got it this place together and allowed the break down in the relationship to happen so we both need to do the work to get out of it. Right now it’s all one sided and it’s making me even less attracted to him that he won’t work on our marriage and views me as a sex object.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

This seems like a fairly simple negotiation. He wants "A", you want "B". Are you willing to give him "A" if he gives you "B", and is he willing to give you "B" if he gets "A"? If yes, it's on. If no, it's over. This leaves me wondering what on earth your marriage counselor has been doing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TJW said:


> In my mind and perspective, as a man, the "huge big picture" cannot even be envisioned until there is sex. Those are the things I agreed to GIVE HER in order to have sex. I didn't want any of them. In fact, I vehemently resent having the "family", the "big picture", the "responsibility", and the "building", in the absence of sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I rest my case.

See, I know that, but most women don't and refuse to think that is the case. It ruins it for them.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> Unfortunately I don’t have any desire to be with him that way when he hasn’t tried to meet my emotional needs as a partner. We both got it this place together and allowed the break down in the relationship to happen so we both need to do the work to get out of it. Right now it’s all one sided and it’s making me even less attracted to him that he won’t work on our marriage and views me as a sex object.


It's not one sided if you're not giving him what HE needs though. It's NO sided if neither one of you are having your needs met.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> See, I know that, but most women don't and refuse to think that is the case.


Well, then, if you know that, why are you seeking to have your husband be different, without any change in yourself ?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

KW2020 said:


> I’ve been consistent in my efforts and doing the work in therapy and trying to rebuild our lost connection and he seems stuck on just the physical aspect of our relationship. He wants sex but doesn’t want to do any other repair work on our relationship.


this wouldn’t work for me - I would feel used and abused.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> This leaves me wondering what on earth your marriage counselor has been doing.


I'm not wondering at all what their counselor has been doing. He/she has been pocketing money, even when he/she knows full well there is no basis upon which to rebuild the marriage.

On a side note, Mr. @Laurentium.... I sure wish my XW and I had you for a counselor...... our marriage might have actually worked......


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Beach123 said:


> this wouldn’t work for me - I would feel used and abused.


Yep. Me too. 

And, if I'm completely honest about "emotional needs" - I don't even know what the hell that means..... I have no "emotional" needs....my need (singular) is to be PHYSICALLY WANTED by my wife. It's the only "need" I have. I completely do not understand other "needs"...... I have NONE of those which I cannot supply for myself..... ....NONE....


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TJW said:


> Well, then, if you know that, why are you seeking to have your husband be different, without any change in yourself ?


You're not talking to the op here. Wrong person. But as a third party just posting on here, traditionally men have concealed the fact that they just want sex and the rest isn't that important to them. So that is probably why. But I do not talk of all men. I just know it's true for some and it's not true for others. It reduces the woman to a person who just barters sex and most women don't want to be that. And most women, other things are just as or more important to them and that is especially true of their kids. Kids don't really benefit from a man who is only there because he wants sex from his wife and isn't really invested in the family.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

TJW said:


> my need (singular) is to be PHYSICALLY WANTED by my wife.





DownByTheRiver said:


> traditionally men have concealed the fact that they just want sex and the rest isn't that important to them. So that is probably why. But I do not talk of all men. I just know it's true for some and it's not true for others.


I think that's quite a small minority of men. 

And it seems to me that the need to be physically _wanted by ones partner_ is quite a different thing from the need for sex.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

I have to say that it is very helpful to hear everyone’s different perspectives on this issue as vastly different as they may be. That was my hope. To try to understand my husband better (he’s a terrible communicator), but to also see if there are experiences people have had similar to my own that could offer advice and/ or guidance. And to answer your question, the therapist can only do so much when my husband refuses to participate in the process/ suggestions she is offering. You can lead a horse to water....


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

KW2020 said:


> You’re absolutely correct. I am only in control of myself and have the power to change my situation any time I want. Just very difficult to know and feel what is the right thing to do.


I’ve found there are times when a decision beats no decision.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

KW2020 said:


> I’ve been consistent in my efforts and doing the work in therapy and trying to rebuild our lost connection and he seems stuck on just the physical aspect of our relationship. He wants sex but doesn’t want to do any other repair work on our relationship.


I understand and can empathise although with me in time even the sex became obvious it was just sex and not a healthy connection of what love should be. In the end, it hurt to be told the truth... that she had no desire to really give more than she was and when I told her I needed more she asked for a divorce.

I quietly gave my wife 6 weeks to think about changing her mind, letting her know this was not what I wished for us as I still believed it could come back for her (it had for me as I began working on my side to improve us a decade before)... yet knowing her for 30 years (married for 28) watching her make zero effort to heal the fractures such words bring and watching her drift further away than she already was, I made the choice and filed.

I do not believe she thought I would and I believe she thought I would accept her terms as roommates, my taking control of my life was the best thing I could have done.

It's hard, and it hurts... but my life in what was self-imposed struggling with someone who was not really wanting to be with me ended as I was freed to find the wonderful love I have now.

Perhaps it is time to be open with him and share where you think you are headed.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Was it ever answered anywhere what the OP has been doing to meet the husband's need here? I heard her state a few times that he didn't seem able to meet her emotional connection needs and didn't seem to want to, but never saw anything as to what she was trying or doing to meet his needs.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I understand and can empathise although with me in time even the sex became obvious it was just sex and not a healthy connection of what love should be. In the end, it hurt to be told the truth... that she had no desire to really give more than she was and when I told her I needed more she asked for a divorce.
> 
> I quietly gave my wife 6 weeks to think about changing her mind, letting her know this was not what I wished for us as I still believed it could come back for her (it had for me as I began working on my side to improve us a decade before)... yet knowing her for 30 years (married for 28) watching her make zero effort to heal the fractures such words bring and watching her drift further away than she already was, I made the choice and filed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story. I know I’m not alone in this situation as many have been here before me but it feels so isolating when you’re experiencing it. I have been very honest about where this is heading and he has said he feels the same way, the only difference is I feel like I’m trying to save US and he’s not. But he “says” he does, just doesn’t do any of the work necessary for change to happen.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> I have to say that it is very helpful to hear everyone’s different perspectives on this issue as vastly different as they may be. That was my hope. To try to understand my husband better (he’s a terrible communicator), but to also see if there are experiences people have had similar to my own that could offer advice and/ or guidance. And to answer your question, the therapist can only do so much when my husband refuses to participate in the process/ suggestions she is offering. You can lead a horse to water....


If you are refusing to have sex with him because he's not giving you what you want, YOU are also refusing to participate from my viewpoint.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

KW2020 said:


> Thank you for sharing your story. I know I’m not alone in this situation as many have been here before me but it feels so isolating when you’re experiencing it. I have been very honest about where this is heading and he has said he feels the same way, the only difference is I feel like I’m trying to save US and he’s not. But he “says” he does, just doesn’t do any of the work necessary for change to happen.


Ok, so you see words but no actions... 

I should not have used the word "zero" earlier for my ex's efforts, it would not be true. Her efforts were to accompany me to some counseling, but never would open up her view of who I was, the soldier of when she married me, was unchanged with the things she disliked about me even though my growth path was something she acknowledged and actually told our counselor I was a good person, she simply questioned if I was a good person for her.

Physical sharing of bodies (sex), is almost always the first to go when things break down... if it doesn't come with the heart then faking it does more harm. If you are so disconnected yet one is still desiring it and the other gives in to "just sex" then I think both are not seeing what is really there.

I am curious what your husband is really looking for when he knows you are so apart yet he still wishes such a physical connection? Can you say for a fact what that is?

Sometimes we gasp for any breath in a drowning relationship.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Ok, so you see words but no actions...
> 
> I should not have used the word "zero" earlier for my ex's efforts, it would not be true. Her efforts were to accompany me to some counseling, but never would open up her view of who I was, the soldier of when she married me, was unchanged with the things she disliked about me even though my growth path was something she acknowledged and actually told our counselor I was a good person, she simply questioned if I was a good person for her.
> 
> ...


I honestly can’t say. I think though that he thinks the physical part will save us but it won’t because once the physical act is done, we’ll be back to where we are. We have no common interests any more and we’ve grown apart in every other aspect of our lives. That’s the part I’m trying to get back and that requires more than just having sex. It requires talking, communicating, spending time together doing things, all of which he doesn’t do unless I initiate. Which I did for our whole marriage and I’m tired of being the one to give all the effort. It’s not fair.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why don’t you point blank say to him - this isn’t enough for me to be happy - do you intend to connect with me or is this marriage over?
If he doesn’t agree to participate more WITH you - then file for divorce so that you CAN try and find someone who is compatible!

life is too short to stay when it’s just never gonna be a good match!


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

KW2020 said:


> I honestly can’t say. I think though that he thinks the physical part will save us but it won’t because once the physical act is done, we’ll be back to where we are. We have no common interests any more and we’ve grown apart in every other aspect of our lives. That’s the part I’m trying to get back and that requires more than just having sex. It requires talking, communicating, spending time together doing things, all of which he doesn’t do unless I initiate. Which I did for our whole marriage and I’m tired of being the one to give all the effort. It’s not fair.


How can you reconnect if you’re not having sex? 

I would love to hear your husband’s version of things. You have ignored relevant and important questions. 

It looks like BOTH of you are NOT trying. Are YOU giving him what he needs from you? 

Btw, I’m a woman. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KW2020 said:


> Yes I agree but there is no effort on his part to make any other kind of connection with me besides having sex.


Not sure if you know but men generally dont feel emotionally close or connected to their wives if they dont have sex. Sex opens up the emotional connection, so if you are refusing sex say, thats going to just make him feel more distant from you. Try an experiment, for a month make a decision to have lots of good sex and see what happens. I bet you will see a big difference in him and the marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

KW2020 said:


> I honestly can’t say. I think though that he thinks the physical part will save us but it won’t because once the physical act is done, we’ll be back to where we are. We have no common interests any more and we’ve grown apart in every other aspect of our lives. That’s the part I’m trying to get back and that requires more than just having sex. It requires talking, communicating, spending time together doing things, all of which he doesn’t do unless I initiate. Which I did for our whole marriage and I’m tired of being the one to give all the effort. It’s not fair.


You need to find a man that you can connect with before you ever have sex over mutual interests, one who does like to communicate and talk about different things. There certainly are men such as one of the one above who only wants sex from a woman and really don't care about the rest. I really don't think there's a magic wand that if you have sex with a man he opens up to you and suddenly shares your interests and all that kind of thing. I think you have to find that first.

I've certainly known a lot of men who liked me as a person and were interested in spending time with me outside of a romantic context, men who could talk and be interested in a conversation for hours on end. I've certainly had men who confided in me. Not all men are one-dimensional. Not all men can only connect if they have sex. That said, if you're going to have an exclusive relationship, sex needs to be involved.

I wouldn't have any interest in a man who had no other interest in a woman except sex. To me that is so shallow as to be sociopathic, and it doesn't interest me and wouldn't interest most people I know once they found out.

So do whatever you want to do about this relationship, but on the next one, find someone through mutual interests and hobbies who stimulate you and vice versa mentally and intellectually and not just physically. They are out there.


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

This is for the lurkers, because the OP can't be helped.
There has been some good advise from some of the ladies here, and it bears repeating, maybe a little louder.
IT'S NOT JUST SEX!!!
In case you missed that, IT'S NOT JUST SEX!!!
Ladies, if you want to kill a relationship, withhold sex. Want to emasculate your husband, reject him. Probably won't even take very long. Actually, might happen far faster than you ever imagined!
But going forward, know this, your husband would walk across broken glass to take a bullet for you. But once you pull the emotional bond that a loving, sexual partnership creates and maintains, you're going to be on your own.
Cycle repeats itself, divorce him, throw your ankles behind your ears for the next guy. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Quick recap, fastest way to an angry, resentful, emotionally unavailable husband. No. Bond.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

shortbus said:


> Cycle repeats itself, divorce him, throw your ankles behind your ears for the next guy. Lather, rinse, repeat.


THIS is what happens so often and what I do not understand...people will leave marriages where they are refusing to have sex with their interested partners, and then start having sex with a new person.

Maybe this won't be the OP, but if it is, she will be willing to have sex with a new man because she feels like she has a stronger emotional connection with him (whatever that means) than she did with her husband, but that's ONLY AN ILLUSION...so why not put that sexual effort and investment into her husband, instead of some new guy...??

I don't get it...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

KW2020 said:


> I honestly can’t say. I think though that he thinks the physical part will save us but it won’t because once the physical act is done, we’ll be back to where we are. We have no common interests any more and we’ve grown apart in every other aspect of our lives. That’s the part I’m trying to get back and that requires more than just having sex. It requires talking, communicating, spending time together doing things, all of which he doesn’t do unless I initiate. Which I did for our whole marriage and I’m tired of being the one to give all the effort. It’s not fair.


I don't know if you are even looking for advice with your posts, or if you only came on here to have your method of getting your husband to meet your needs validated (which is fine, I'm not being snarky)...but here is what I think, for what it's worth to you or anyone else...

What you are doing is WITHHOLDING part of yourself from your husband, and therefore, your marriage. It's a form of manipulation, and not being done with love, so it's not going to be a successful way for you to get your needs met.

One of the few things that I'm certain I did right in my two relationships is I GAVE of MYSELF unreservedly. I never withheld what I knew my husband needed while I was invested in my relationship with him. I NEVER held anything back to try and get his attention or to cajole him to give me what I wanted or needed in return - not sex, not attention, not time, not freedom, not space, not anything. If he needed something from me, and I could provide it to him, it made me happy to do so - NOT because he was then going to do something back for me, but because I loved him and I wanted to be his Most Special Person and someone who he could trust! I wanted him to be secure in my love and CARE for him. And it made ME happy too!

Of course, I also expected to have that back, if he really loved me - I wanted him to CARE about ME too. But I would still give him everything I could, and then also let him know what I needed, and (in the beginning) trust that he cared enough about ME to be giving in return. And if I felt like he didn't, I would talk to him about that...but I would still never withhold from him to punish him or to manipulate him.
I just didn't have the heart for that, it made ME more unhappy to be that way than it made him! Lol!!

Relationships become sources of pain and frustration when people spend all their time keeping score - there are always going to be times when one person gives more and the other takes more, that's the nature of life and living. It's much better to relate in a genuinely loving and caring way, since that's really what we are in relationships for in the first place!

If your husband isn't meeting your needs, then work on THAT problem, but do it from the position of caring about him and wanting to connect more with him because you love him. If he takes advantage of you and refuses to care about you, then you will know that you did everything you could and you just aren't right for eachother anymore.

But for your highest chance of success in getting your own needs met, be dedicated to caring about him and ALL his needs and meeting them as much as possible!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

There’s no super like for the above post or I’d use it.

I’m a man. I’ve never had a bad sexual relationship. I want far more than sex. I want a friend, a person to tell about the good things that happened, someone to gripe to about the bad. Someone to look forward to going places with. But yes, I want to look forward to snuggling with them at night and having sex, too.

Most men don’t want ONLY a sexual thing from their wives.

OP, I’ve read your thread and it’s obvious your mindset is a huge part of the problem with you and your husband. You are purposefully withholding affection from him.
I can’t thing of a more sure relationship killer.
He’s got to do x,y,z or you won’t have sex with him. And I suspect he has to do x, y, z for a time that isn’t known to either of you as well. He doesn’t want to go places or do things with you?
Guess what? There’s a reason. You are likely one of the reasons. Is he selfish? We can all be selfish. But if he WANTED to go places and do things with you, he would. And if you gave him some great sex and such on trips and such, he’d probably be so looking forward to being with you at night and being in a good mood, your whole dynamic would change. You’d have fun talking, you’d have fun being with one another. Or he might be a completely selfish person and it may not work at all. But you know what? YOU married him. YOU chose him. He must have been loads of fun for a while because you wanted to spend the rest of your life with him.

You are so resentful of your husband’s neglect of you, that it has permeated every aspect of your existence with him and likely poisoned it.

You have no intention of having sex with your husband and seeing if it helped things.

Yes, he may have become oblivious to being your friend and sharing everyday things with you like a cup of coffee or a trip to the grocery store taking together. He may just be doing his thing and is happy.
All I’m suggesting is to ask yourself what you’re doing to draw him to YOU. I’d think if you were a really fun person, he couldn’t help but want to be in on that fun person’s company.

I’m not there. I don’t know how your husband really is. He may be awful.

But I can see based on your posts that you really have zero interest in fixing this. You e got both feet out the door and one finger on the light switch.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

What is an illusion is to think that the healthy part of a relationship focuses on sex. Sex is but the outcome of feeling good about your partner, and that starts with how our partner interacts and balances our life… it all begins by how close we are to our partner or diminishes from how distant we are and the toll it takes when that balance is broken.

Loneliness in a marriage is prison. Sure, you can opt to detach from the expectations of a partner but you can not really detach from the needed connections that are required to stay healthy with a kind word, a generous involvement, a patient and nonjudgmental listening to the stress of the day. To think sex would proceed such and be the more powerful connector over any of these is a surprising thought for me, I struggle to understand how because the biological foundation of letting go to loving trust is a merged process of and in believing to be loved, and such trust is attractive.

Everything continually changes as we move through relationships… if we do not change, grow in our connections, the relationship becomes unbalanced. People often talk about relationship laziness, often these “ruts” are a cumulated lack of the right effort to engage ourselves first in ensuring that we recognize the changes in our relationship. A rut in my eyes is not a static… it is ignoring the changes and pretending the static exists over the change and this ignorance is often identified after too many years of “growing apart”. Sadly, this can be a very one-sided affair if one partner remains in ignorance, and often by choice because growth takes a lot of effort at times and it becomes habit to want the easy way for ourselves to think and believe others are just as static and that in itself is another illusion, the belief in an enduring self is a suffering self, the problem is that in a marriage the suffering self often has temporarily willing partner to suffer with until that partner decides to become unwilling.

How we configure ourselves and place our needs is often a lesson in deconstruction… what are the changes affecting me and how to I apply them in my relationship? I love my wife and trust her with my sharing, therefore I share almost everything that I may remember. I will not remember all I want to share, but when it surfaces and I do, her kindness will not berate me or chastise me for not mentioning it earlier so I have no fear of sharing with her as she also trusts my intent to never keep things from her and such trust creates one of the bonds that transfers a reality to physical love.

We forget emotional charity, the things that allow us to remove illusion and see exactly what our partner’s actions mean in a kind light. Kindness is always more welcome as we look at the changes that come from our partner, even if those changes are mean spirited remarks that hurt or to the opposite end of confrontational hurt… being ignored, and that can be just as abusive. We can take the time to understand why we are where we are, but there are times when it comes to walking away from the things that hurt us that makes the most sense.

To be in harmony together means to have an interest in another, to be seen with interest as an individual with valued feelings, thoughts, experiences… a responsive acceptance that you are so much more than just someone kept to fill a need only when needed. Shared karma is a goal for all couples, we often refer to that as a loving relationship and with that mutuality grows intimacy and romance that transfer from emotional to physical. It is a connection that has nothing to do with individuality, it is a sharing or it’s just objectifying sex. We all have roles in our partner’s lives, inclusiveness is an essential component in how we demonstrate we are there for another.

If inclusiveness cannot be revived, it is time to fully let go of the marriage.

*edited for grammar


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> traditionally men have concealed the fact that they just want sex and the rest isn't that important to them.


Yes, and traditionally, women feign physical attraction for their suitor, until they get him to the altar. After that, the TRUTH that she was never attracted to him in the first place becomes quite apparent to the man. First, it becomes starfish position, then "not tonight", then "not this month", then "not this year".....It becomes an undeniable "elephant in the room", _the woman has concealed that she just wants "the rest" and sex isn't important to her_ - that is, unless it is with the latest country-music hearthrob.......Guess what ? GAME OVER. The guy is NEVER going to trust that this person wants him FOR REAL..... it's a lie she told, which can't be walked back.....



Laurentium said:


> seems to me that the need to be physically _wanted by ones partner_ is quite a different thing from the need for sex.


Yes, it is quite different. My W complains "...we never go anywhere....we never do anything....." - I so much want to ask her this question:

_....how much fun do you really think it's going to be for me ? To go somewhere, to do something with someone to whom I am a "settle" ? To have to endure the painful thoughts that you would really be quite different if someone other than me was on the other side of your bed ? To know that if we actually have sex (which is statistically doubtful), it will be "duty" sex ?_


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> What is an illusion is to think that the healthy part of a relationship focuses on sex. Sex is but the outcome of feeling good about your partner, and that starts with how our partner interacts and balances our life… it all begins by how close we are to our partner or diminishes from how distant we are and the toll it takes when that balance is broken.
> 
> Loneliness in a marriage is prison. Sure, you can opt to detach from the expectations of a partner but you can not really detach from the needed connections that are required to stay healthy with a kind word, a generous involvement, a patient and nonjudgmental listening to the stress of the day. To think sex would proceed such and be the more powerful connector over any of these is a surprising thought for me, I struggle to understand how because the biological foundation of letting go to loving trust is a merged process of and in believing to be loved, and such trust is attractive.
> 
> ...


I am SO grateful for you!!!!!

This is why I want you and @Affaircare to adopt me!!!! 💜


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TJW said:


> Yes, and traditionally, women feign physical attraction for their suitor, until they get him to the altar. After that, the TRUTH that she was never attracted to him in the first place becomes quite apparent to the man. First, it becomes starfish position, then "not tonight", then "not this month", then "not this year".....It becomes an undeniable "elephant in the room", _the woman has concealed that she just wants "the rest" and sex isn't important to her_ - that is, unless it is with the latest country-music hearthrob.......Guess what ? GAME OVER. The guy is NEVER going to trust that this person wants him FOR REAL..... it's a lie she told, which can't be walked back.....


Oh, I don't believe that is true at all. The women I've known are attracted to them at first and then marriage issues arise and they stop seeing them as this great guy, for any number of reasons and they lose their passion for him. Women aren't like men, most of them. They won't just have sex with someone to have sex. They want to be passionate and believe in the guy. And that's in addition to the normal hormone fluctuations and other things physical that can happen. 

What really happens is either children and/or hormones, problems around dividing chores that turns the woman off the guy because it's so inconsiderate, so they are mad and lose feelings for him. Or they just get to know him too well, to the point they fall out of love because he's no longer who she thought he was. Maybe he just loses his mystery or her ideal in her head is now faced with reality, but whatever, it happens to lots of people. 

Sometimes she just outgrows him. Sometimes he becomes more of a child to her than a husband, or sometimes more of a father to her than a husband, or sometimes more of a brother to her than a husband as the relationship plays out domestically. Happens all the time. Maybe he farts on purpose like a five-year-old, so she now views him as one. Maybe he clutters the house up like he was still a toddler, so she views him as one now and sex is out of the question at that point. Maybe he thinks he's her boss and prods her like a father, so now she views him as one and isn't at all turned on by that. 

Women mostly are not wired to have sex unless they are feeling romantic, which they're not going to be if the man is a disappointment domestically or they woman is exhausted, usually both. 

If you know real-life women who pretend to think you're attractive and then marry you, it must be for money, because there's no other reason one would do it, and you are dealing with mercenery golddiggers. I don't know any of those in 68 years personally, in my circle. But they are around, and certain men seem to like them because they can buy sex from someone better looking than they can normally get without throwing money around, so it's their own fault if they pursue that to marriage.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> Could you both afford to divorce? How would your children feel?


Why does it matter what their adult children feel about them divorcing?


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, I don't believe that is true at all. The women I've known are attracted to them at first and then marriage issues arise and they stop seeing them as this great guy, for any number of reasons and they lose their passion for him. Women aren't like men, most of them. They won't just have sex with someone to have sex. They want to be passionate and believe in the guy. And that's in addition to the normal hormone fluctuations and other things physical that can happen.
> 
> What really happens is either children and/or hormones, problems around dividing chores that turns the woman off the guy because it's so inconsiderate, so they are mad and lose feelings for him. Or they just get to know him too well, to the point they fall out of love because he's no longer who she thought he was. Maybe he just loses his mystery or her ideal in her head is now faced with reality, but whatever, it happens to lots of people.
> 
> ...


We have been together for 24 years and over that time, many different things have happened in our marriage to create distance between us and ultimately break down our intimate connection. I am finding out through therapy that much of why I’ve tolerated so much up to this point is due to childhood trauma and my need to keep my family
Unit together and suppress my own needs in order to keep peace and avoid conflict. But I finally reached a point where I said no more, I need more of a partner and friend in this life and I’m done doing all the work of holding the relationship together by myself. I’m in no way “withholding” sex as a way of punishment, our sex life just diminished over time as the distance between us grew. I’m willing to do the work to get us back to an intimate place (not just physically it emotionally), and he isn’t. That’s where the break down is. He thinks if we have sex it’s going to solve all of our problems but it’s not.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Trident said:


> Why does it matter what their adult children feel about them divorcing?


Because it's sensible to have every aspect looked at. Even what adult children feel about the idea of a divorce.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> Because it's sensible to have every aspect looked at. Even what adult children feel about the idea of a divorce.


I'm thinking the adult children have no business offering up their opinions as to whether their parents should remain together. 

But hey that's just me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

KW2020 said:


> We have been together for 24 years and over that time, many different things have happened in our marriage to create distance between us and ultimately break down our intimate connection. I am finding out through therapy that much of why I’ve tolerated so much up to this point is due to childhood trauma and my need to keep my family
> Unit together and suppress my own needs in order to keep peace and avoid conflict. But I finally reached a point where I said no more, I need more of a partner and friend in this life and I’m done doing all the work of holding the relationship together by myself. I’m in no way “withholding” sex as a way of punishment, our sex life just diminished over time as the distance between us grew. I’m willing to do the work to get us back to an intimate place (not just physically it emotionally), and he isn’t. That’s where the break down is. He thinks if we have sex it’s going to solve all of our problems but it’s not.


It's going to solve all of his problems because that is all he cares about. And that's a problem. Set yourself free.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@KW2020,

What concrete things has your husband been asked to do, in therapy or privately, that he has failed to follow through with?

Did he say he would do them and then fail to fi them, or does he honestly refuse?

Had he done done any of them, do you feel deep down it would make you more open to being physically intimate with him at this point, or do you think there is no road to redemption for him in your eyes and heart?

Is there anything you find attractive in him?

If it’s not too personal, do you still have physical desires, just not for him?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's going to solve all of his problems because that is all he cares about. And that's a problem. Set yourself free.


And set him free as well.


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## Jules295 (Dec 9, 2020)

There is a saying that '_women need to feel loved to have sex, whilst men need to have sex to feel loved'_. Getting that balance right all the time is not an easy prospect in any marriage and its a bit of a 'chicken and egg' scenario when its all gone to custard and you are trying to work your back to a happy relationship.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> @KW2020,
> 
> What concrete things has your husband been asked to do, in therapy or privately, that he has failed to follow through with?
> 
> ...


He’s been asked to communicate with me more and doesn’t. He’s been asked to initiate spending time
With me and doesn’t. He’s been asked to speak to and with our children in a more supportive and less aggressive tone and he doesn’t. He’s been asked to his own personal issues in therapy and refuses to. I do feel deep down that it would make all the difference in the world to me that he was trying to save our marriage and work on himself/us but instead I’m growing more resentful. And yes I still have physical desires.


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## KW2020 (Dec 31, 2020)

Jules295 said:


> There is a saying that '_women need to feel loved to have sex, whilst men need to have sex to feel loved'_. Getting that balance right all the time is not an easy prospect in any marriage and its a bit of a 'chicken and egg' scenario when its all gone to custard and you are trying to work your back to a happy relationship.


Pretty perfect analogy actually.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

KW2020 said:


> I feel like I still want the marriage to an extent but he’s not putting in any effort whatsoever to move forward. Even our therapist says it’s not going to work if I’m the only one trying. He’s focused on our sex life and focused on rebuilding a long term connection where we actually enjoy one another’s company again and have things in common.


I take it you mean your therapist is focused on those things, not your husband?

Also, if you don’t mind me asking, what kind of sex life (frequency) do you and your husband have? What do each of you want at this point? What would you like to have or be comfortable with once other things in your relationship are where you’d like them to be? Does compatibility seem like where you are headed, if and when the broken things in your relationship are repaired?

Have you investigated what your respective Love Languages are? Are you working with any books, etc?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

KW2020 said:


> We have been together for 24 years and over that time, many different things have happened in our marriage to create distance between us and ultimately break down our intimate connection. I am finding out through therapy that much of why I’ve tolerated so much up to this point is due to childhood trauma and my need to keep my family
> Unit together and suppress my own needs in order to keep peace and avoid conflict. But I finally reached a point where I said no more, I need more of a partner and friend in this life and I’m done doing all the work of holding the relationship together by myself. I’m in no way “withholding” sex as a way of punishment, our sex life just diminished over time as the distance between us grew. I’m willing to do the work to get us back to an intimate place (not just physically it emotionally), and he isn’t. That’s where the break down is. He thinks if we have sex it’s going to solve all of our problems but it’s not.


That makes sense.

so would he be open to a vacation, just you and him? No work, work phones and work thoughts off? Just enjoying one another’s company? Nothing fancy. A cabin in the woods?


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