# Married and Sexually Frustrated



## Optimisticone (Nov 16, 2011)

Hello everyone! I'm a male and brand new to this forum. Just signed up 2 minutes ago. Thanks in advance for your help, feedback or if you can simply relate and cry in your beer with me. Searched the internet for a place to speak openly about my marriage concerns. My story is that I have been married for 4 years and sex with my wife has become almost non-existent and unfulfilling. I have very strong sexual desires and would probably prefer sex 3-4 x's a week. (Don't think I have EVER had sex with the wife 4 x's a week...I'd be extremely lucky if it was 2 x's a week, but that was years ago. That would have probably been my birthday week or something) I'm lucky if we have sex twice a month now....Yup...twice a month and always when she wants it, never when I initiate it. Of course, I'm always eager to have sex when she finally wants it, but I completely expect to get turned down if I initiate it. There is NO sexual tension or flirting anymore from her. When we do have sex, she is quiet as a mouse. I can't get her to talk to me or even look at me...She basically tunes me out and focuses on her orgasm. I can't get her to connect with me at all during sex. I make sure that she ALWAYS has her orgasm first and then I work on mine. I love giving her oral sex and of course I love to receive it. The only time she will speak to me during sex is when she's already had her orgasm and she wants me to "hurry up" and have mine… I've tried many times to talk to her in very erotic ways but she just doesn't participate. I have sent her very erotic, sexually explicit emails and she doesn't respond. I've asked her why she doesn’t respond and she doesn't respond to that email either. I’ve asked her to her face and she says “let’s talk about it later”....I've asked her if she feels that my emails are inappropriate and she doesn't respond. I'm a monogamous man who is dedicated to this marriage, but I can't spend the rest of my life in pretty much a sexless marriage... I feel trapped! We've gone to marriage counseling before and I think that it may be that time again, but truthfully I'm just not optimistic that much will change with her...I would love to have a woman who has a strong sex drive, to match mine, and is willing to flirt and work at it. I think sex with the one you love should be exciting and different. I would LOVE for her to challenge me...surprise me in bed...That ain't happening. I've tried to "schedule" love-making with her. but she refuses...saying that scheduling sex is not spontaneous...Yet she doesn't have a spontaneous bone in her body, so sex just doesn't happen. I don't want to fail at this marriage, but one thing I just can't bargain away is my need for sexual fun and exploration. Can anybody relate to what I’m going through?
OptimisticOne...


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hello Optimistic ~

Welcome! I like your user name.

Well, if you have cruised around this forum for more than a few minutes, you will see that yes, you are in good company as sexual issues/incompatabilities are a very, very common issue within many marriages.

I have typed out likely hundreds of responses to men with similar issues. 

So, where to start? Well, first off - have you and your wife ever had a good sexual relationship - such as when you were first married, or even during dating? There's really a biological chemical ****tail that happens to people when they are 'in love' and in that phase of a relationship. It gradually fades away and is not so intense, but bonding experiences can keep it going in a very deep and intimate way after that point. But, a lot of times, couples let the daily stresses of life and their relationship get in the way, and they no longer make each other a priority and they let those bonding experiences fade away.

So, do you know what your wife wants/needs/expects out of your marriage?

Have you ever explored that topic together? If not, a good place to start would be using the "5 Love Languages" to determine how you each would like to receive love (and how you may be showing it to your spouse and missing the boat because they need it shown in a different way.) Check out the following:

The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®

Do you think your wife sees your dilemma as an issue in the marriage? Would she be willing to work at it with you?

Why were you in marriage counseling before? A lot of times sexual issues are just a 'canary in the coal mine' in that relationship issues that are going on often show up in the bedroom, but to resolve the sexual issue, you really need to address the relationship issues. Here's another site to give you some food for thought that I reference quite frequently - has a catchy title for a husband too:

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Best wishes.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Optimisticone said:


> I have sent her very erotic, sexually explicit emails and she doesn't respond. I've asked her why she doesn’t respond and she doesn't respond to that email either. I’ve asked her to her face and she says “let’s talk about it later”....I've asked her if she feels that my emails are inappropriate and she doesn't respond.


Ok, there is alot to your problem and it is not easily solved but it can be solved. But what I have pulled out shows you are barking up the wrong tree. Your path is of trying to be overtly sexual or talk about sex, or ask her what you should do is not going to work.

What you have to focus in is giving your wife non sexual love and fulfillment, so that she will in return give you sexual love and fulfillment.

A very good place to start is the book recommended by Enchantment. The concept is that you have to show your wife love in a way that is meaningful to her.

So before you focus on how she needs to meet your needs, you should focus on meeting her needs. The question I have for you is what do you think are her main non sexual complaints about you as a husband or her life in general? That's your starting point.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

yes jump through all her hoops to be let down and then be more resentfull.

she is being passive agressive if she has not comunicating that her needs were not being met so instead shes a refuser!

I disagree with the above posters you need to sit her down and flat out ask if she wants to be married or not.


or you can waste your time


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, you can cut right to the chase like Chilly recommends, but you'll still need to be prepared to try and pull your own weight in resolving whatever relationship issues there may be going on if you do throw around the D word and your wife decides to work on the marriage.

Otherwise, after a short period of time of complying by your wife to your demands, you may find yourself in the same boat again. Because just telling her won't make a difference unless she also sees action on your part, as she tries to act on her part.

It will take BOTH of you making changes to make it work, but whoever it is bugging the most (you, in this case) can make the first move.

I'll leave it to you to decide what that first move should be since you are the only one here who knows your wife.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> yes jump through all her hoops to be let down and then be more resentfull.
> 
> she is being passive agressive if she has not comunicating that her needs were not being met so instead shes a refuser!
> 
> ...


I don't advocate jumping through hoops.
Wives don't communicate their needs verbally. It's important for a man to discover and meet his wife's needs. If after doing so for a period of time, that's when you switch to ulimatums.

If his wife is acting this way, when OP gives that ultimatum he will find out she is more than willing to divorce. Ultimatums will only work if she is likely to stick with the marriage.


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Man up and ” Hold onto your N.U.T.s ” teach her there is ” No More Mr Nice Guy”.. Read those two books. I'm about a month or so in and it has done wonders... Be about pleasing yourself anId not relying on her for meeting your needs. In the past month my wife and I went from once a month to about twice a week... Over the weekend it was twice in one night which hasn't happened in years. I started being firmer in making decisions. For example what's for dinner, instead of back and forth what do you want just say we r eating pork chops. Let her eventually know your expectations, and don't whine or complain when you don't get your way (I found out that's not attractive, neither is bartering or begging). Just please yourself join a men's group at a church or something. Be a man. And if she's not down with the new YOU, which is who you really are (without her influencing you) then you have some decisions to make.
Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> yes jump through all her hoops to be let down and then be more resentfull.
> 
> she is being passive agressive if she has not comunicating that her needs were not being met so instead shes a refuser!
> 
> ...


chilly I noticed many of your post seem to me to be in the same vain. To me they are uniformly angry, unyielding, and full of contempt for woman. I don't know your story, you may have good reason for bitterness. 

Your sentiment that you have to jump through hoops. That intrigues me because what you seem to be saying is that making any concessions to the way your approach to a woman in a way that makes her receptive is controlling (jump through hoops) and manipulative (passive aggressive). 

I am asking these question in general. If you think being romantic is jumping through hoops, what do you think woman should do to remedy the controlling behavior? What do you consider an ideal sex partner and why are these attributes important to a man? 

I'll tell you my bias so you don't feel you are walking into a trap. I think that in order to be sustained past the honeymoon phase, sex has to be mutually satisfying. Most women have a weaker sex seeking behavior and less frequent desire to have sex. Their sex drive is more sensitive to external events like conflict, lack of communication, anger, worry, fatigue etc. 

Men have a more robust sex drive. Woman usually needs time to transition from not thinking about sex to desire and arousal and take a longer time to orgasm than men. 

Do you think the man would be jumping through hoops if he took the time to warm his partner up, avoided going for the erogenous zones too quickly and slowed down? 

Do you think that making an effort to be more communicative and receptive and to giving her concerns top priority even if they are not important to him jumping through hoops? 

If so, do you think that women should adjust by not letting external events effect their desire to have sex? 

If you think compromise is in order what exactly do you think is a reasonable one should be?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr_brown said:


> Man up and ” Hold onto your N.U.T.s ” teach her there is ” No More Mr Nice Guy”.. Read those two books. I'm about a month or so in and it has done wonders... Be about pleasing yourself anId not relying on her for meeting your needs. In the past month my wife and I went from once a month to about twice a week... Over the weekend it was twice in one night which hasn't happened in years. I started being firmer in making decisions. For example what's for dinner, instead of back and forth what do you want just say we r eating pork chops. Let her eventually know your expectations, and don't whine or complain when you don't get your way (I found out that's not attractive, neither is bartering or begging). Just please yourself join a men's group at a church or something. Be a man. And if she's not down with the new YOU, which is who you really are (without her influencing you) then you have some decisions to make.
> Good luck and keep us posted!


I think you have the manning up concept all wrong. Pleasing yourself and being demanding - why would she have more sex with you? If you are pleasing yourself and she is pleasing you, what is she getting out of it? 

Are you saying threatening to employ the ultimate, divorcing her is inducement enough to get her to do things your way? There must be other things that you are doing or she is biding her time and storing up resentment until she can leave. 

Does sound like a loving marriage more like a master slave relationship. Maybe she likes being dominated and serving? 

I'm submissive with my husband but I would get some [email protected] fast if he came with demands and threats.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hicks said:


> I don't advocate jumping through hoops.
> Wives don't communicate their needs verbally. It's important for a man to discover and meet his wife's needs. If after doing so for a period of time, that's when you switch to ulimatums.
> 
> If his wife is acting this way, when OP gives that ultimatum he will find out she is more than willing to divorce. Ultimatums will only work if she is likely to stick with the marriage.


No, they don't work. He has to be willing to carryout his ultimatum or he will seem weak.


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

@ Catherine, I am not talking sexually... I am now making myself happy. I was dependent on my wife for happiness, now I am making sure I am happy even if she isn't the one providing the satisfaction. By hanging out with other men, making small purchases for myself(things I would have felt guilty for buying previously) making/scheduling time for me to enjoy life and it has lightened my wife's load or what I kind of felt previously that was her responsibility. My stress levels are down and so are my wifes! Things have been better in my life!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr_brown said:


> @ Catherine, I am not talking sexually... I am now making myself happy. I was dependent on my wife for happiness, now I am making sure I am happy even if she isn't the one providing the satisfaction. By hanging out with other men, making small purchases for myself(things I would have felt guilty for buying previously) making/scheduling time for me to enjoy life and it has lightened my wife's load or what I kind of felt previously that was her responsibility. My stress levels are down and so are my wifes! Things have been better in my life!


Sorry misread your post. That's what the men in the Men's Clubhouse advise and I think they are right. Well, you know that. 

I read of so many men who are wrapped up in their wives every emotion and suffer for it. They get into a position where they depend on her to meet all of their needs. 

They drop their friends and have no one and have none but their wives to talk to. It doesn't work. What you are doing apparently does!


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

By doing as you say some men are doing(wrapping yourself up in your wife's emotions and being completely dependant) you are now acting like a kid and not a man. And that is all your wife needs is to have to take care of a kid. Bottom line is be a man for your wife and family! You were your own self when your wife fell for you. Be that man again not the whittled down boy you have slowly adapted to!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Are you reasonably sure she's straight?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr_brown said:


> By doing as you say some men are doing(wrapping yourself up in your wife's emotions and being completely dependant) you are now acting like a kid and not a man. And that is all your wife needs is to have to take care of a kid. Bottom line is be a man for your wife and family! You were your own self when your wife fell for you. Be that man again not the whittled down boy you have slowly adapted to!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::smthumbup:


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> chilly I noticed many of your post seem to me to be in the same vain. To me they are uniformly angry, unyielding, and full of contempt for woman. I don't know your story, you may have good reason for bitterness.
> 
> *****only contempt for women who want men to read their minds.
> and then passive agressively refuse them!
> ...


***BOTH parties need to comunicate what their needs are and make an honest effort to try and meet them. No guessing games or attitude like well he should know and because he don't I'm going to punish him. and when he asks whats up just say I don't know.


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## Optimisticone (Nov 16, 2011)

Hello all... This is OptimisticOne! WOW! Thanks to all for your thoughts, feedback and opinions... They are all welcomed. This is my first time in a forum...(Any forum)...so I'm happy to see such feedback. I subscribed to my thread but I didn't get any update/alert emails today, so I didn't think that anyone responded and I didn't check the site until now. Busy today anyway... I'll give responses tomorrow. One comment that I caught at the end was, "Am I sure that she is straight" and the answer is Yes 100% sure. I'll respond more tomorrow... Thanks again to everyone..."OO"


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

For women sex starts in their mind. Find out how to connect to her "emotionally" to increase her orgasms and feeling of being connected to you.

Make sex an experience associate it with experiences.

For women the act is far down the list.... it's the experience and all that leads up to the act.
Physical stimulus cannot hold a candle to mental stimulus for most women in regards to sex.
Mind blowing orgasms come from the feeling of emotional connection. All women love that feeling.

More mind blowing orgasms= more and better sex for you!

Get in her mind! Read up on women's needs. It'll open your eyes.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> ***BOTH parties need to comunicate what their needs are and make an honest effort to try and meet them. No guessing games or attitude like well he should know and because he don't I'm going to punish him. and when he asks whats up just say I don't know.


But you said that certain of your wife's conversations are silly. This seems at variance with your statement above. 

Communicating needs is difficult unless you feel safe and accepted by your partner. It takes courage to discuss something so intimate so it only happens if there is no fear of judgement. It is unlikely that I would talk about my needs with anyone who tells me my conversation is silly. 

What may happen is that your wife listens to your communication about your needs but says noting in return. If you are critical of the little things she says she is not going to feel safe telling anything so close to her heart.

Maybe she is not hearing your man needs because you made a mistake that many uninformed men make. You pick apart things you don't like about women and love others. If the others revolve around sex then you can see the problem. 

It is probably better to learn to love all of the ways of a woman. If you shut down one part she may shut down completely. I am certain that men would like that too. 

I bet when you were dating and trying to impress her that you didn't tell her that her conversation about her gf was silly. Now that she is married, you pull a bait and switch.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I said I think some of her conversations are silly! and never told her that.

really you picked one thing and a minor one at that. I would be cut off right in the middle of something that I want to tell her for her to change the subject to something totaly unrelated about something that has nothing to do with us or our family.I Have actually quit trying to relay any type of story or happings to me because she don't listen or show interest she just waits to jump in and tell her stories.so in reality shes the one who isn't listening or is indifferent to any thing I want to talk about. at first I would say hey, I was in the middle of telling a story and you cut me off but it made no difference and hell I don't want to talk to someone who don't want to listen and I sure as hell don't want to listen to someone talk about their day if they arn't reciprocating.

I'm a big hunter/fisherman outdoors type of thing and when we were dating she would listen and even want to go with me as soon as we got married she quit so its hard to listen and act interested to someone who isn't interested in your stuff.

I definatly did not pull a bait and switch.

you see if thats the only thing you saw in my retourt then your not seeing the forest through the trees.

you mean to tell me I have to meet every one of her needs to the T or she will not love or desrie me is just plain BS if thats the case then I don't want her. thats emotional black mail passive agressive style. its impossible to meet your spouces every need.


just another hoop and after I jump throught that one it will be something else. I guess I'm comming to realise I wasn't cut out to be married.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

the real bait and switch is catch them with plenty of Pu$$y and then say your a sex fiend after you get married and then complain well your not meeting my needs.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Erm.... what are you guys even talking about? I must have missed something as I don't see how this necessarily relates to the OP other than pure speculation?

And what happened to Optimisticone? Can you give us an update if you are out there?


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## mrwawa (Nov 9, 2011)

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks and it does seem there are basically two approaches to handling sexual problems in marriage. One is the "be the man" approach, you know, gets some b*lls boy. The other is to pay more attention to her needs, satisfy her needs (non-sexual) first and then see what happens.

Both seem like they are context-dependent, depend on the persons involved. I don't have much to say about the first approach, but I do think that letting up on the gas a little bit for men can do wonders. Wives don't want that type of attention from their husbands all the time. From strangers, that's another story. They seem to love that.

The second option seems to only work if the wife is engaged also. And it seems like in some ways it is at cross-purposes with the first. Another thing that bothers me about the second method is the underlying theme of sex as a reward for a husband's good behavior. I don't think that sex should be seen as a reward, but rather an outflowing of feeling toward someone else that you love.


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## Optimisticone (Nov 16, 2011)

To all... Great feedback... Thanks! I missed some points but I will try to respond to those later.

ENCHANTMENT:
Love your comments and approach… I will read the books. 
HICKS:
A very good place to start is the book recommended by Enchantment. The concept is that you have to show your wife love in a way that is meaningful to her.
ME: 
Meet her needs – start from early in the day to warm her up – send emails, text, call, compliment her on looks. I admit that I haven’t done this non-stop. Who can provide comfort and compliments non-stop? I really think I am better than the average man when it comes to supporting and providing for my wife. 
HICKS:
So before you focus on how she needs to meet your needs, you should focus on meeting her needs. The question I have for you is what do you think are her main non sexual complaints about you as a husband or her life in general? That's your starting point.
ME:
We pretty much have the same complaint about each other – We don’t connect. She feels that she isn’t getting what she needs and I feel that I don’t get what I need. 
In my opinion women, sorry for the generalization, don’t believe in a “token economy” and men do. What I mean by that is that I can do 16 perfect things for her over the course of a week and I can mess up/drop the ball on one aspect and all of my successful efforts don’t matter. All the positives are erased. 
CHILLYMORN:
“she is being passive aggressive”.
Me:
My wife is very passive aggressive. Her family is very passive aggressive. That took a LOT of getting used to during our dating years. She has become less PA but still far more than anyone I know. 
ENCHANTMENT:
Otherwise, after a short period of time of complying by your wife to your demands, you may find yourself in the same boat again. Because just telling her won't make a difference unless she also sees action on your part, as she tries to act on her part.
ME:
I honestly feel that I have complied/compromised to her wishes over the years and now I’m at a place where just flat-out am not getting what I want out of this marriage and I wonder how I got here?!?!
We had a very open talk last weekend and shared my deep feelings with her. One of the worst aspects of our sexual relationship is that I just feel powerless, when it comes to sex, in my own marriage. News flash… men get their feelings hurt as well when their wife refuses to make love with them time and time again. Maybe my approach has been all wrong, but if so, she doesn’t tell me… she just refuses my advancements. Let me say that I am a very a respectful man and I would never force the issue with her. I just turn inside, like most men, and suffer quietly. 
I don’t really believe in ultimatums in a relationship. If I need to “force” my wife to have sex or to be adventurous in bed, then I have simply chosen the wrong partner. My fault… I own it. 
Sex before we got married was OK but not great… I worried about that before I even proposed. We were younger and deep down I hoped that as she aged, she’s now 35, she would become more comfortable “in her skin”, so to speak and more open and comfortable in the bed room.
Bottom line is that I want amazing sex with my wife… It’s important to me and I’m not ashamed to say it . The reality is that our sex life has deteriorated. 
MR. BROWN:
“Man up and ” Hold onto your N.U.T.s ” teach her there is ” No More Mr Nice Guy”.. Read those two books.”
ME:
Interesting perspective… You might be right. Let me clarify one thing though, I don’t feel that I am being “wimpy”. Physically, I’m a former major college football player, 6 ft and 235 pounds and I’m determined and strong-willed. But to your point… I do feel passive (and powerless) when it comes to demanding sex from my wife. I’m not one to manipulate people to get what I want… All that being said, I kind of agree with you that I need be more open and aggressive about my needs. 
MRWAWA:
I have been reading this forum for a few weeks and it does seem there are basically two approaches to handling sexual problems in marriage. One is the "be the man" approach, you know, gets some b*lls boy.
ME:
I appreciate your perspective and agree. 
By letting up on the gas, I have decided that when she wants sex, once or twice a month, I am not going run up to the bedroom and eagerly participate. This will lead to even less sex for me, but this arrangement doesn’t work. I have tried this with her in the past and all of a sudden the tables are turned and she gets upset because I’m THE ONE withholding sex. 

More later..... Major THANKS!


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## Optimisticone (Nov 16, 2011)

Enchantment asked me to tell more about why we went to a marriage counselor in the past. This is fairly rare, but we actually went to a marriage counselor BEFORE we got married. We were at a cross roads and both of us were unsure if we had what it took to get married and be happy, etc. The counseling was very difficult, at first. It dredged up a lot of hurt feelings and resentment. The counseling, after maybe 4-5 months then became very helpful. Helpful enough that we ended up getting married. We have scheduled an appt with a marriage counselor for the coming Tuesday Nov 22nd. I'll let you know how it goes... (OO) OptimisticOne

By the way, as mentioned I'm very new to the forum... What does "OP" mean? I've seen that used a few times... Thanks!


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

OP = original poster, you in this case since you started the thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Optimisticone (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks Duke!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Optimisticone said:


> To all... Great feedback... Thanks! I missed some points but I will try to respond to those later.
> 
> ENCHANTMENT:
> Love your comments and approach… I will read the books.
> ...


I think your idea of not running to the bedroom and waiting for her when she wants sex is good, it's a form of game playing, but I think it can work. Be more lack a daisy about it, maybe say, "yeah, I'll be up in a few, just have to finish with the dishes" or whatever, make up something if you have to.

Something that works well for us is that I want to know my husband "hears" me when I express my needs. For instance, something so small as my favorite box of chocolates, or even chocolate bar, if he comes home with one, I know he's been thinking about me, and it's not just sexual. I'm not sure all women want the sexy or erotic emails all the time. yes, It's nice once in a while, but if it's on going, it can become stale. Things need to be changed around a bit.

It would drive me nuts if my husband was a selfish lover, just wanting to get off and turn over, you really need to deal with that issue, otherwise it'll only get worse. 

Sit back and observe her behavior for a bit, notice any patterns etc. be aloof in your attitude, and see how she reacts.

good luck


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## wife2 (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm with "Chilly" on this one sorry, I would ask her if she wants to be married or not! I know how u feel all too well, my husband is the same way, no sex ever! we dont even sleep in the same room anymore. I have a high sex drive, I wish he did, maybe he does with himself but not with me. anyway, good luck to u, i hope it works. I'm working on leaving mine cuz I have been in it 15yrs and i am only 35 I cant live like this for the rest of my life ya know? neither can u, unless u luv her enough to stay in it without the sex. I luv my husband but not enough to sacrifice that part of my life, sorry.


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## LongIslandHusband (Nov 26, 2011)

I just joined this forum. I happened upon it by typing the phrase "I am so sexually frustrated" into Google. In the words of Meatloaf (the singer not the food), Optimisticone took the words right out of my mouth. Have not read all of the interesting responses yet.

P.S. I've been married for 12 years. My wife initially seemed to have a high sex drive (similar to my own). Over the years its become less and less -- probably about 3 times a month now (and even that is only because i am persistent). Other than that we have a great marriage in every way . . . but for me, that frustration is so overwhelming that it is negatively affecting virtually ever area of my life.


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