# I think my wife is having an affair



## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

I've reason to suspect my wife is having an affair. I have noticed a few red flags over the last year, but not wanting to get hurt I have chosen to ignore it. However it's coming to a point where I can't ignore it anymore and I am starting to pick up on things such as missing underwear, strange numbers appearing on her bill, sudden changes of mood, her taking an interest in where I am a lot of the time. I am pretty sure it's with a work colleague and ever since I accused her a while back (wrong I know) she has been very crafty about things but I still see the signs. I also found an application called Viber on her phone and these text messages with funny numbers could apparently be related to that according to the Internet. 

This woman has been very angry for quite some time now, and I'm wondering if this is guilt. Last weekend I pretended to be unwell because I didn't want to go on a day trip with her after I noticed she snook some underwear in her draw out of her bag without thinking I had noticed. I wasn't fancy but it made me wonder if she is washing it elsewhere as this is very unusual and there is no reason for it at all, she hasn't stayed with friends, she hadn't packed a bag for anything, so it makes no sense.

The morning I pretend to be unwell, she went downstairs and screamed at the dogs with such rage for no reason just because they would not go in the pantry where there beds are before she left the house. Then she asked whats the real reason you don't want to come so I just said I had a terrible migraine and kept it at that.

She kept on at me saying are you going to tell me the real reason you are not coming as she thinks I am keeping it from her which I am because I just feel in my gut she's cheating. She doesn't have that many tell tale signs and I think that's because we have fought about it before but things I notice others would too.

Any advice on catching her with a work colleague? Also if she is innocent which I don't believe she is then what explains missing underwear, strange text messages on her bill, uncontrollable rage, constantly wanting to know where I am, emotional disconnection, no interest in sex, and many other things over the last 12 months.

Just to make you aware I did confront her quite a few times a while back over things like snatching her phone off me, and other stuff that didn't add up but I guess that's just made her better at hiding things. I know I was in the wrong for doing that but when you know it's hard to keep emotionally stable. This time I am doing my best to not say anything and just keep my wits about me to try and get some evidence however I do that before divorce.

I would appreciate some advice from someone who has been there?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There are a lot of red flags. 

Put a key logger on the computer she uses. Hide a voice activated recorder under the front seat of her car with some Velcro. Ask your mobile provider for her call and text history. 

Do some sleuthing and gather evidence. Take your time. Worse thing you can do is confront her or accuse her without hard evidence. All she would do is gaslight you and take her affair underground. 

OR...

She's just being a normal, moody, over-emotional female who lacks reason and accountability.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Missing underwear though? The pair is from last Wednesday and I have looked for it whilst doing the washing, they are not anywhere so how do you explain that? 

If they had fallen down the back of some draws or somewhere then fair play but I've looked everywhere they could be and I know I don't put my underwear anywhere else in the house so what gives?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

menmars, sorry you find yourself here but as other posters say, there are many red flags. Get ready for the long haul. You have to stop confronting her although your emotions are not stable, this may have enabled her to hide even more.

Start keeping your eyes open, mouth shut. Start doing the 180, act as if life is great, take up a new hobby, go out more (do not tell her where you are going), meet your friends, etc be kind, cordial. In the meantime try and collect evidence. When she queries you on your location, fob her off or give her false information. She is trying to keep tabs on your whereabouts, you cannot sleuth if she knows your movements.

The best seems to be a VAR in her car (if it's a work colleague, they may want to keep it on the down low and talk in the car and on her phone in the car)

Do you have access to her phone, the pc she uses, etc? Start digging there. Record the numbers, take screenshots and message to yourself - then delete.
others on TAM will tell you how to download tracking software, recovery software etc. have a plan.

If you have the money consider a PI to follow her.

Are you friends with any of her work colleagues, do they have get togethers. Invite yourself along and see how she interacts with the others - that can be very telling. Or anyone who would let you know, if they know something is up.

Above all do not put her on notice, you are in stealth mode, put the emotions aside, you are on a mission to find out what she up to. 

I hope there is nothing for your sake, but it does not look like it. How old is your wife?

Do you have kids?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MenMars, on another note, you do the laundry at home? Are you working?


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

aine said:


> menmars, sorry you find yourself here but as other posters say, there are many red flags. Get ready for the long haul. You have to stop confronting her although your emotions are not stable, this may have enabled her to hide even more.
> 
> Start keeping your eyes open, mouth shut. Start doing the 180, act as if life is great, take up a new hobby, go out more (do not tell her where you are going), meet your friends, etc be kind, cordial. In the meantime try and collect evidence. When she queries you on your location, fob her off or give her false information. She is trying to keep tabs on your whereabouts, you cannot sleuth if she knows your movements.
> 
> ...


It's incredibly difficult trying to pretend you're happy, when this is pretty much ripping me to bits inside. The laundry was just a one off and I said I was looking for some jeans, but in reality I was checking the basket so I didn't actually do the laundry as such but I knew they were not there, because she hides behind her dressing gown 24/7 and always goes to the bathroom immediately most nights after work, strange huh!?

I run my own business from home, and I've given her a really good life. Not trying to play the money card or anything here but I kill myself running my business, move us into a massive detached house for the future and she repays me with this?

Yeah I will do some of the above, I think most of the stuff is on her work laptop which I cannot gain access too, and even when she is working from home she never ever leaves it unattended (maybe for 5 minutes at lunch), then it is packed away every night without fail although she leaves other stuff all over the house.

Problem I have is if she is having an affair with a work colleague and they are sleeping together at work, a PI can't gain access to that right? I hate talking about this stuff you know, it makes me feel terrible but I just know something isn't right as my gut has been screaming at me for a couple of years now so I have to do something about it. I guess all I need is proof then I can try and pull myself together and start planning to divorce this woman.

In fact thinking about it now, it's so obvious she didn't even get me anything to open on my birthday last week! Just a card, talk about not bothered! So much for the 15 years we've been together.

Oh, one other thing guys! In 6 years, I have only ever met 3 of her work colleagues once for about 2 minutes picking her up, she's kept me away as much as possible. We argue about this but apparently "no one brings there other halves" which I get, but a quick introduction when I am picking you up wouldn't go a miss would it?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> It's incredibly difficult trying to pretend you're happy, when this is pretty much ripping me to bits inside. The laundry was just a one off and I said I was looking for some jeans, but in reality I was checking the basket so I didn't actually do the laundry as such but I knew they were not there, because she hides behind her dressing gown 24/7 and always goes to the bathroom immediately most nights after work, strange huh!?
> 
> I run my own business from home, and I've given her a really good life. Not trying to play the money card or anything here but I kill myself running my business, move us into a massive detached house for the future and she repays me with this?
> 
> ...


So sorry and many of us here know exactly how your feel but you have to try and be calm , though you are panicking inside. You have keep it together so she doesn't know you are investigating, being upbeat will throw her off the scent.

Going to the bathroom immediately after coming home, does she shower? If so that is very strange. Does she take her phone with her?

If she goes to work, does she drive there? 

A VAR in her car under the seat with good heavy duty double sided tape would be the best thing as it is likely she talks on her phone in the car. If she is carrying on with a colleague, it is unlikely they are having sex in the office so would needs to go out at lunch time etc so a PI would be able to pick up something (it is worth a try).

Can you pretend there is something wrong with your PC and say you just wanted to check some mails quickly and do a quick history search etc. See her reaction. 

Finally, go and see a lawyer and see what your options are, you do not have to do anything but just check.

You can do this and good luck


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> my gut has been screaming at me for a couple of years now


That's enough evidence to detach from her and file for divorce.

If you want hard evidence, do it without emotions while knowing you're definitely going to find out stuff that will hurt.

If your gut has been screaming at you for 2 years, that's 2 years of total misery you have wasted being married to this woman. Why? A woman that raises flags and makes you feel insecure is not marriage material at all. Of course, part of the issue could be your lack of confidence, but that's often very different than the "gut feeling". Your gut never lies. Specially for 2 freaking years. 

Sometimes little doubts and questions come and go. That's normal and almost everybody experiences it. What you're describing is not normal. The fact that she runs to the shower as soon as she comes home is the biggest red-flag.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

synthetic said:


> That's enough evidence to detach from her and file for divorce.
> 
> If you want hard evidence, do it without emotions while knowing you're definitely going to find out stuff that will hurt.
> 
> ...


She never runs to the shower, it's just to the toilet but my imagination tells me maybe she's changing her underwear, I don't know all this stuff is quite hard to say the least! Well I love her, but you are right I don't feel like she is the woman who makes me feel good, who takes a proper interest in me, or wants to connect in anyway to be honest. I haven't had sex with her for 3 weeks (longest we've been for a while now) and she hasn't even mentioned it. I am going to hold off for as long as I can as well to see what happens because I am fed up of always being the initiator, I want my wife to want me, and I keep myself in reasonably good shape so it's not like I have let myself go or anything.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Missing underwear though? The pair is from last Wednesday and I have looked for it whilst doing the washing, they are not anywhere so how do you explain that?
> 
> If they had fallen down the back of some draws or somewhere then fair play but I've looked everywhere they could be and I know I don't put my underwear anywhere else in the house so what gives?


Did she have her period?

I work from home now, but when I didn't, I'd take extra underwear to work because I have such heavy periods, I'd often have accidents. And, there were times when that happened I just threw my underwear away and changed into the clean/extra pair.

Just food for thought.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your biggest mistake here is confronting without evidence. If that's what you need for closure.

VAR in the car will probably tell you what you need. 

Look at the phone bill for calls to a specific number. That's the easiest first step.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
A suggestion. Download and fill out divorce papers from the Internet, or go see a lawyer and have them drawn up if you prefer. Then, the next time your W brings her laptop home simply sit her down and have the papers in your hand. Explain that you are extremely upset and are all but convinced that she is having an A. Tell her it is now, as your wife, her responsibility to settle your mind on this issue. Show her the papers and tell her you are prepared to file because you can no longer live with the uncertainty. Tell her that you want to see her phone, laptop and want all necessary passwords to her social media and email accounts so that this can be settled here and now. Tell her that if she refuses then that is the answer you needed and ask her to sign the D paperwork.

If she acquiesces, which I believe to be highly improbable, then make sure she opens all devices in your presence and does not have a chance to delete or change anything.

When she becomes enraged, as she most probably will, simply ask her what the source of her rage is. Explain that, as her H, you deserve to have the piece of mind that this simple gesture will provide and if she is adamantly unwilling to cooperate then explain to her that, any possible A aside, this refusal shows just how little you mean to her and you can not stay with someone who has such little regard for your feelings. Whatever course you decide to follow I wish you good fortune.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> She never runs to the shower, it's just to the toilet but my imagination tells me maybe she's changing her underwear, I don't know all this stuff is quite hard to say the least! Well I love her, but you are right I don't feel like she is the woman who makes me feel good, who takes a proper interest in me, or wants to connect in anyway to be honest. I haven't had sex with her for 3 weeks (longest we've been for a while now) and she hasn't even mentioned it. I am going to hold off for as long as I can as well to see what happens because I am fed up of always being the initiator, I want my wife to want me, and I keep myself in reasonably good shape so it's not like I have let myself go or anything.


Aside from affair worries,
In your other thread it was mentioned that she probably has responsive desire. Read up on it a bit, here's just a few The Arousal Principle: The Complexity And Simplicity Of Female Erotic Desire*|*Pamela Madsen
'Sex Drive Doesn't Exist,' Psychologist Says; More Women Experience 'Responsive Desire'

A woman with responsive desire may never be the initiator. She can love you, want you, love having sex with you and be super attracted to you and still need to be aroused FIRST before their brains can go "Oh right, sex! I want to do that" 

It says nothing about you or your marriage or her. It's just a normal sexual drive type.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Honestly work affairs are near impossible to catch.

Is her phone supplied by her employer?

Are you able to afford a private investigator? It's not hard with a PI, they'll be able to instruct you on creating a situation where she is likely to cheat (I.e. You have a conference or something to go to)

Viber is definitely a good app to cheat with. It's most commonly used not in the US, not sure where you are. In the US the big cheater apps are Skype and Kik

The VAR goes without saying - if she is cheating she IS calling someone from the car, but you also have to realize you will not get results immediately


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

eric1 said:


> Honestly work affairs are near impossible to catch.
> 
> Is her phone supplied by her employer?
> 
> ...


Both her phone and her laptop are supplied by her employer. Yeah I probably could, but what happens if she only sees this guy say once a month am I going to have to fork out thousands to track her for a whole month?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> I've reason to suspect my wife is having an affair. I have noticed a few red flags over the last year, but not wanting to get hurt I have chosen to ignore it. However it's coming to a point where I can't ignore it anymore and I am starting to pick up on things such as missing underwear, strange numbers appearing on her bill, sudden changes of mood, her taking an interest in where I am a lot of the time. I am pretty sure it's with a work colleague and ever since I accused her a while back (wrong I know) she has been very crafty about things but I still see the signs. I also found an application called Viber on her phone and these text messages with funny numbers could apparently be related to that according to the Internet.
> 
> This woman has been very angry for quite some time now, and I'm wondering if this is guilt. Last weekend I pretended to be unwell because I didn't want to go on a day trip with her after I noticed she snook some underwear in her draw out of her bag without thinking I had noticed. I wasn't fancy but it made me wonder if she is washing it elsewhere as this is very unusual and there is no reason for it at all, she hasn't stayed with friends, she hadn't packed a bag for anything, so it makes no sense.
> 
> ...


Yep show up at her work unannounced and gauge her reaction. Also watch the coworkers reaction about you being there. My X did have a thing with a coworker and when I was there no one would look at me. They all knew what was going on, before I did, and me just being there made them all visibly uncomfortable probably because try thought I was there to kill the guy.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

The problem is I have no legitimate reason to be that side of town and she works in a building that's corporate with locked everything I would stand a chance of getting in all she would do is come to the door but even then I have never been in 8 years so why would I visit now? Any more advice on catching workplace affairs?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> The problem is I have no legitimate reason to be that side of town and she works in a building that's corporate with locked everything I would stand a chance of getting in all she would do is come to the door but even then I have never been in 8 years so why would I visit now? Any more advice on catching workplace affairs?


Well unless she is screwing the guy at work like my X was chances are they are meeting up outside of work. You will either need a PI or GPS tracking


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> The problem is I have no legitimate reason to be that side of town and she works in a building that's corporate with locked everything I would stand a chance of getting in all she would do is come to the door but even then I have never been in 8 years so why would I visit now? Any more advice on catching workplace affairs?


Have friend go around lunchtime that she doesn't know. Check it out. 

Or you show up on a surprise lunch date.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Voice activated recorder (VAR) under her seat.

Read Weightlifter "Standard Evidence Thread". He has detailed instructions on how to properly use a VAR, down to the model to use.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Why don't you just divorce? You clearly do not trust her.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Did she have her period?
> 
> 
> I was thinking period too, and panites got ruined from it, which can happn.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Lostme said:


> SecondTime'Round said:
> 
> 
> > Did she have her period?
> ...


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Up to 48 hours following coitus there can still be leakage of ... evidence of a 3rd party's dna. If you can afford it you could have tests run on any suspicious stains from the laundry hamper. Doesn't have to that day's underwear.

Or you could just use a Checkmate kit to get a non-specific test for semen.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Lostme said:
> 
> 
> > For the person who said "Why don't you just divorce her, you clearly do not trust her", I guess I am worried this is all in my head, but then again when underwear does actually go missing I know that's not something I have imagined. I guess I don't divorce her because when she's the person I fell in love with (5% of the time) I adore her. It's just a shame I only see 5% of that now, which has quickly diminished over the years.
> ...


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

syhoybenden said:


> Up to 48 hours following coitus there can still be leakage of ... evidence of a 3rd party's dna. If you can afford it you could have tests run on any suspicious stains from the laundry hamper. Doesn't have to that day's underwear.
> 
> Or you could just use a Checkmate kit to get a non-specific test for semen.


Every time I see this I think of Shamwow.

Voice Activated Recorder......That's where I would start. Weightlifter has a Standard Evidence Thread check it out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> MenMarsWomenVenus said:
> 
> 
> > Where there's smoke, I say keep looking for fire.
> ...


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello OP and sorry to have you here.

There certainly are too many flags to not be suspicious.

You need to uncover more evidence and you need to be calm about it.

From what you have said, you are not going to be able to get into her workplace and neither will a PI - so for now I wouldn't bother with a PI.

You really have to read Weightlifters Standard Evidence post to know what you need to do. But it starts with the following:


Buy two VARs and if you can get away with a Pen VAR for her purse (if you think she wouldn't notice it else drop the idea because it would compromise everything else). One VAR to be securely strapped to the underneath of her car seat as per the instructions in Weightlifter's thread and one to be hidden in the house where she is most likely to make calls from. Make sure you get the right type of VARs, set them up exactly as Weight lifter suggests with the right type of long life Lithium Iron batteries.

Put a key logger on her computer if you have access to it and if you think it will go unnoticed at her work.

Get her underwear and send it off for semen/DNA testing to a lab.

Do not confront even if you do find something. Come back here for advice on how to proceed after that.


Get going on this so as to arrive at a certain peace of mind sooner rather than later with regard to wondering if its all in your head. The chances are, based on what you have said, this marriage is over - one way or another and you need to start preparing for that anyway. The more prepared you are, the better off you will be.

Take care.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> Why? He already knows he does not trust her.
> 
> I do not agree with all this advice to spy and snoop. If you do not trust, just move on already.


I agree, it sounds like he's wanting to move on anyway. He wants a woman who has spontaneous desire, who shows more that she wants him. 
But if she's having an affair he can be the good guy and have a good reason to leave. 

I generally agree with doing quick snooping- phones, computers to see if there is anything wonky as long as it stops there.

I draw the line at inspecting panties, VARs, PIs and whatnot. If it's gone that far it is over anyway. Just leave. 
Either she is having an affair and it's over 
or 
She isn't and she'll never respect or want anything to do with a man who would act that way. Kiss any chance of a sex life good bye, any chance of coming back to a normal, healthy marriage. It's over


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I agree, it sounds like he's wanting to move on anyway. He wants a woman who has spontaneous desire, who shows more that she wants him.
> *But if she's having an affair he can be the good guy and have a good reason to leave. *


So this is about image control? 



> I generally agree with doing quick snooping- phones, computers to see if there is anything wonky as long as it stops there.
> 
> I draw the line at inspecting panties, VARs, PIs and whatnot. If it's gone that far it is over anyway. Just leave.
> Either she is having an affair and it's over
> ...


Would definitely advise anyone (okay almost anyone) who is spied on to leave. Huge red flag.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

I have another idea for gathering evidence. I am suspicious my wife is using Viber to contact this guy because I have seen it a couple of years ago on her phone and when I checked her applications one morning while she was making breakfast I found Viber right there in the purchased section.

I'm surprised she even knows what it is as she hardly uses anything like that no what's app or anything just text.

So tonight I downloaded Viber and it says "Allow phone book access to sync with contacts" so... Presuming there is no privacy feature if I agree she will show up as a user who uses Viber but then at the same time that blows my cover and shows her I know.

Maybe I will get a second phone to do this? Then if I add her from a random number she has no idea who it is and I can see if she is active on there. I don't know her username or password but I am pretty sure that's what she's using to communicate with him.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> So this is about image control?
> 
> 
> 
> Would definitely advise anyone (okay almost anyone) who is spied on to leave. Huge red flag.


I think image/ego is a big part of it, it ties in with the victim role, they get to have no fault. Even if they stay, they get to spend the rest of the marriage superior and a victim.
Not just men either, women can find comfort in this victim role as well.


And yes if any friend came to me telling me their spouse was spying on them in these ways I would tell them to run as fast as they can away from them. 
Quickly checking through phone records, computer history and whatnot I can understand. 
Being recorded through VARs or cameras, having private diaries read, being followed, having underwear examined- run and don't look back.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

jld said:


> SecondTime'Round said:
> 
> 
> > Why? He already knows he does not trust her.
> ...


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

SlowlyGoing, put yourself in my position. You think your husband or wife is having an affair because you notice a few things that don't add up. So what do you do? Pretend it's all ok and ignore it forever or keep your eyes open for other things? What you said is an easy off the cuff comment until your actually faced with the possibility of someone you made vows too on the happiest day of your life crushing you!!!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> SlowlyGoing, put yourself in my position. You think your husband or wife is having an affair because you notice a few things that don't add up. So what do you do? Pretend it's all ok and ignore it forever or keep your eyes open for other things? What you said is an easy off the cuff comment until your actually faced with the possibility of someone you made vows too on the happiest day of your life crushing you!!!


My husband was having an affair, 6 months ago, with a woman from work. I can sympathize with you AND disagree with the methods. I feel your pain, it's like being shot in the stomach and dying a slow death.

I overheard a conversation where he was telling her how wonderful she was and how crazy I was, laughing about me. 
Texts came up that he was talking with her often.
I did do a findmyiphone after one of the times (there were several)he had not come home at night and I caught the 2 of them at a bar the next afternoon having a date. Even then they both swore to me that they were only friends. I felt and _acted _crazy. This went on for 3 weeks and then he confessed. 
Had he not I was leaving, I had already stooped lower than I ever wanted to go and if had gotten to the point where I could spy and track a grown ass adult that was supposed to be my mate for life, 
what's the point of going any further?

I'm not saying stay and pretend it's not happening. I'm saying that once you get to the point where it's more than just a little snooping and you're invading all privacy just to find some kind of sign, it's done anyway so you might as well leave. It's not healthy for either person. 
Either way- she's is cheating or she's not cheating- there is no good outcome when it gets to this point.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My husband was having an affair, 6 months ago, with a woman from work. I can sympathize with you AND disagree with the methods. I feel your pain, it's like being shot in the stomach and dying a slow death.
> 
> I overheard a conversation where he was telling her how wonderful she was and how crazy I was, laughing about me.
> Texts came up that he was talking with her often.
> ...


I understand what you're saying, but like others here I just need to know for myself. If it's me that has the problem, and I have completely over-reacted to this and everything is 100% innocent then yes maybe I am not cut out for marriage. However if it is not and she is having an affair, I am not giving away half of everything I have ever worked for, and worked damn hard (i own my own company) to someone who could act as low as that.

Sorry, it may be over but I need to know why these red flags are red flags, and it's relatively simple...

For example if I keep an eye on her for the next month and no other underwear goes missing, maybe it's just a one off yes? However if another 2 pairs go missing, then I know I am on to something right? Catch my drift? I have A LOT to lose here, 15 years of working to build my own company (I am self made no one gave it to me) and the house I bought us, so yes it's pretty damn serious


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My husband was having an affair, 6 months ago, with a woman from work. I can sympathize with you AND disagree with the methods. I feel your pain, it's like being shot in the stomach and dying a slow death.
> 
> I overheard a conversation where he was telling her how wonderful she was and how crazy I was, laughing about me.
> Texts came up that he was talking with her often.
> ...


I agree. And it cannot feel good to do that spying. It surely makes you feel bad all around, like the whole thing is messed up.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

jld said:


> I agree. And it cannot feel good to do that spying. It surely makes you feel bad all around, like the whole thing is messed up.


What am I meant to do? Pretend it's all ok? If she is cheating as you have seen from people on here who have been betrayed, SHE WILL LIE ANYWAY!!!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> What am I meant to do? Pretend it's all ok? If she is cheating as you have seen from people on here who have been betrayed, SHE WILL LIE ANYWAY!!!


If I were you, I would humbly and sincerely approach her for a heart to heart talk. If I were not fully, from my heart, satisfied by what I heard, I would divorce. 

I think all this spying and snooping is controlling. And I do not think controlling is healthy.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> What am I meant to do? Pretend it's all ok? If she is cheating as you have seen from people on here who have been betrayed, SHE WILL LIE ANYWAY!!!


I agree with you. You want to make sure that your assumptions are correct. I think they are in this case.

Your WW is going to lie to you probably and you have to resort to investigating things to make sure for your peace of mind that you are correct.

I applaud you for that and wish you the best.

Look at Weightlifters standard evidence post, hire a PI if you can, keep your distance from her and do a 180 if you must and seek legal advice so you are ready to protect yourself if this goes bad.

You deserve better than the treatment you are getting from her.

Do you have any idea who she may be having this affair with ?

Stay vigilant and you are right. You are not meant to make like it's not happening. Marriages get to bad points but verifying before leaving the marriage is not a bad thing.

I would also suggest that you don't leave the house even if you file for divorce after verifying this affair (or if unable to verify, leaving anyway). Wear a VAR as much as you can so she doesn't file false DV charges against you and hold on. Some here will continue to help as much as possible.

Sorry you are going through this man. Keep us updated.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Unless you are in a state where they consider cheating in the divorce, it won't matter anyway. She will get 50% of the assets regardless. 

There are plenty of legitimate reasons why underwear go missing, why she could be angry, not initiating sex with you, being disconnected.
I encourage you to not see everything as a sign of cheating and focus on more concrete things.

If she is not home when she is supposed to be and has no reasons why, if she is not transparent with her phone or computer. Those are your problem areas as marriage should be transparent between you two. 

I would recommend marriage builders for you, it works on looking at both partners emotional needs. Openness and honesty is one of them and discussing being open as an emotional need of yours is a better method than "I think you're cheating so I'm going to spy on you" that will just make her close off.
Honesty and Openness
There are questionnaires on there too, take them together, ask how you can best provide her EN for her and tell her how she can provide them for you. 
If she can't or won't then move on. 
But don't spend your life snooping, it's a dark hole that just keeps you stuck and in limbo.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello and welcome to TAM. You'll find people who call checking out your spouse spying, snooping, invasion of privacy and abusive. Do what you need to do and go on about your business. It's easy to say spying must be bad, but so is living in limbo. Just make sure you set an end date and do not become obsessive in your checking. Personally, if you have the funds, hire a PI and take it out of your hands.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Regardless of what I do I just feel devasted and broken.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Regardless of what I do I just feel devasted and broken.


I feel ya, same boat for me too, it's awful. Lot's of red flags and strange behavior but no concrete evidence, it sucks. :frown2:

Good luck.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Slow Hand said:


> I feel ya, same boat for me too, it's awful. Lot's of red flags and strange behavior but no concrete evidence, it sucks. :frown2:
> 
> Good luck.


How do you cope with it?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Both her phone and her laptop are supplied by her employer. Yeah I probably could, but what happens if she only sees this guy say once a month am I going to have to fork out thousands to track her for a whole month?



Talk to the PI. Usually the game is signalling a pristine opportunity for her to cheat (I.e. You being away) or analyzing call patterns/supplied GPS to determine when the incidents occur.

They definitely don't show up and just start following


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Also, 'lose' your phone and ask her to borrow hers for a minute to look something up. Her face immediately after asking will be your answer. Well, and if she says no


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Regardless of what I do I just feel devasted and broken.


I am really sorry, M. I hear the pain in your voice. 

Have you thought about speaking to a counselor?


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> How do you cope with it?


I read a few books, no more mr nice guy, married mans sex life primer and another one I don't recall right now. I'll post them later tonight when I get a chance.

I had my wife read the 5 love languages and she started not just friends by shirley glass.

The biggest thing I do is go to the gym every day for an hour, it has helped a lot.

I did the VAR for a week and a few days now and nothing. I searched our phone bill, her phone, her emails, nothing. Maybe it is all just in my head, but why all the red flags?



Oh well, I'll just have to wait and just live it day by day, that's all I can do.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Why don't you just divorce? You clearly do not trust her.


So he should throw away 15 years of marriage, not to mention how much he will loose in the divorce because he thinks she is having an affair? That's crazy, what if he is wrong and he is being paranoid, he got a divorce for nothing. Not meeting her co workers is not a red flag for me, I have never met my husbands co workers nor do I care too. I don't have access to my husbands work computer nor should I. 

I would look for signs like she is late from work often and has no explanation of where she has been or goes out at night and doesn't tell you where she is going. Until them keep your eyes open and act normal, because if you are wrong then you are the one who is blowing up this marriage by the way you are acting not her.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Ask yourself which is better a month of a PI or years of limbo? Many scared spouses start convincing themselves of ways to avoid confronting the truth. If it bothers you this much it will start affecting you and your business. You will not give a100% and things will get worse.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

OP asked for advice on how to catch his wife. He didn't ask for your opinion on the
morality of it. There is a thread that discusses this in great detail. Go post there.We are here to help not 
to drive personal agendas. The fact that a poster wouldn't date someone who spies isn't relevant or helpful.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

She's just so angry all the time, I don't know what to do. Don't know what to think about anything anymore to be honest, maybe this life is just about struggle rather than love, it certainly seems that way for me. The hardest part is the fact I am a really good person, do you think I want to be some snooping weirdo? Of course I don't, I just feel like no matter how hard I try she doesn't open up, she doesn't tell me why she is so off or angry and I am left feeling all on my own as ever. My best friend died in May, and now it seems the love of my life is leaving as well. Don't want to get the violins out, but that's a lot for 1 man to take.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> She's just so angry all the time, I don't know what to do. Don't know what to think about anything anymore to be honest, maybe this life is just about struggle rather than love, it certainly seems that way for me. The hardest part is the fact I am a really good person, do you think I want to be some snooping weirdo? Of course I don't, I just feel like no matter how hard I try she doesn't open up, she doesn't tell me why she is so off or angry and I am left feeling all on my own as ever. My best friend died in May, and now it seems the love of my life is leaving as well. Don't want to get the violins out, but that's a lot for 1 man to take.


It is a lot. And you don't have to go through this alone.

Have you considered seeing a counselor? Do you have family or close friends who can give warm support and a listening ear?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yep show up at her work unannounced and gauge her reaction. Also watch the coworkers reaction about you being there. My X did have a thing with a coworker and when I was there no one would look at me. They all knew what was going on, before I did, and me just being there made them all visibly uncomfortable probably because try thought I was there to kill the guy.



This was red flag for my brother in law. He would take a patient into the ER and her coworkers stopped looking at him in the eye or they were rude because she was telling lies about him.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Stop feeling bad for yourself and launch into action. It's only action that will help you.

Get the VAR t o d a y. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Counseling is a good idea. I had to do it. I also had to snoop to catch my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

So when she is angry what is your response?


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

jld said:


> It is a lot. And you don't have to go through this alone.
> 
> Have you considered seeing a counselor? Do you have family or close friends who can give warm support and a listening ear?


My family is dysfunctional. My sister hasn't spoken to me since we moved into a big detached house I worked hard for, and my parents haven't really included me in much for the last 10 years, bit of a strange relationship really.

I did go over once very upset about 4 years ago and then left after 10 minutes as they were angry at me going over like that, and then my mother made some remark about how I hadn't said anything nice about her in my wedding speech, long story but pointless!

So yeah I don't have anyone to be honest. I split off from my group of friends about a year ago because that was leaving me feeling drained and they were more like acquaintances than friends. It's not a big blame game either as I know I have my faults but I think because I am very successful in what I do (but I never brag about anything) that's always lead me into problems with family and friends, most of the time I think they'd rather I was sitting at home on benefits to be honest! Story of my life really. But you know you're grounded when every once and a while you don't feel embarrassed about explaining to someone why you live in a nice house at 30 and own a nice car when they take an interest without judgement. However those beautiful people are few and far between...

Spoke to a counselor maybe a year ago, she was a lovely woman with a heart of gold but going back every week just kept my spirits down if that makes sense? I've tried to pick up and get on with it for 4 years now but putting a happy face on pretending it's all ok is probably what leads to people wanting to top themselves. I guess I don't know where I belong...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> My family is dysfunctional. My sister hasn't spoken to me since we moved into a big detached house I worked hard for, and my parents haven't really included me in much for the last 10 years, bit of a strange relationship really.
> 
> I did go over once very upset about 4 years ago and then left after 10 minutes as they were angry at me going over like that, and then my mother made some remark about how I hadn't said anything nice about her in my wedding speech, long story but pointless!
> 
> ...


M, hon, you need counseling. And you need social contacts.

Do you exercise at all? Have some hobbies?


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

jld said:


> M, hon, you need counseling. And you need social contacts.
> 
> Do you exercise at all? Have some hobbies?


Yeah I did go to the gym, but I haven't had the time recently because my work takes up far too much time. Social contacts wise we moved to a new city 2 months ago so I haven't had chance to meet that many people as of yet.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Yeah I did go to the gym, but I haven't had the time recently because my work takes up far too much time. Social contacts wise we moved to a new city 2 months ago so I haven't had chance to meet that many people as of yet.


Try to get out, okay? It is okay to go alone to events. Just make sure you get out. 

And how about going to the gym today? It's Saturday, not a work day.

I would like to see you get some balance into your life, M. Without balance, it is easy for our minds to get fixated on things.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Yeah I did go to the gym, but I haven't had the time recently because my work takes up far too much time. Social contacts wise we moved to a new city 2 months ago so I haven't had chance to meet that many people as of yet.



what is your gameplan ?

Do you want to know ? What are you willing to do to know ?

Red flags here. Yes. What is important to you ?


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> what is your gameplan ?
> 
> Do you want to know ? What are you willing to do to know ?
> 
> Red flags here. Yes. What is important to you ?


I think the truth is what's most important to me, however I am worried we've lost a deep connection. I love this woman but sometimes she just feels so 2 dimensional. The deepest thing she says to me these days is "What's for dinner" and "Have you done this chore", it becomes a bit boring to be honest and I am left wondering if she either doesn't know what intimacy is, or she's emotionally open and involved with someone else, which wouldn't surprise me.

I know for my own sake I just need to keep my cool, and even though I have been upset today (which is normal for anyone in my position) when she hasn't been here, I still feel level headed. I'll probably try and detach myself to start with because I don't see the point in a one sided marriage, and she's clearly not even noticed we haven't slept together for 3 weeks, which is probably the longest gap in a year. 

I probably have to back off a bit really because otherwise I am just going to get hurt too much, and I just DO NOT understand where her anger comes from, I mean this morning she went absolutely nuts just because I wasn't downstairs within seconds helping her with something, and when I say nuts I mean... screaming, swearing, shouting, and finally slamming the door.

What's the point in that, really? What is there to be so angry about? I do not understand her, but at the same time I had my years of yelling back and being angry too because she was winding me up so much I would just blow! However I am done with that now. I'm better than that, so I will not bring myself down to that level, I just keep calm and don't react these days. It's over stupid stuff anyway, so what's the point!


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Not sure about that it's a bit seedy and I don't really care what she's doing in there. One thing I do know is we just don't talk anymore the most intimate thing that comes out of her mouth is "who's getting the milk" or "what's for tea" and I'm bored ****less, this woman either has no soul or she's giving it to some other bloke. Can't be bothered anymore, think I am done now.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Not sure about that it's a bit seedy and I don't really care what she's doing in there. One thing I do know is we just don't talk anymore the most intimate thing that comes out of her mouth is "who's getting the milk" or "what's for tea" and I'm bored ****less, this woman either has no soul or she's giving it to some other bloke. Can't be bothered anymore, think I am done now.


Then save your money, don't bother hiring a PI, and just divorce. 
If you are done either way there is no point but I did reply to your other thread, your wife will get 50% of the marital assets. There's nothing you can do about that. Everything acquired during the marriage, outside of things like personal inheritance, legally belongs to both of you.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Then save your money, don't bother hiring a PI, and just divorce.
> If you are done either way there is no point but I did reply to your other thread, your wife will get 50% of the marital assets. There's nothing you can do about that. Everything acquired during the marriage, outside of things like personal inheritance, legally belongs to both of you.


not necessarily true. It depends on your state laws and if things are at fault or not at fault and also depends on income.

You could get more than 50%.

Look, when I asked for a gameplan, are you seeking legal help yet ? doing a 180 % what steps have you take to discover who the other POS is ?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I have a feeling that the OP is in Great Britain, not the US, so the laws are likely to be different.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

technovelist said:


> I have a feeling that the OP is in Great Britain, not the US, so the laws are likely to be different.


You're right. "What's for tea?" should have tipped me off.


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## MenMarsWomenVenus (Nov 16, 2015)

Another red flag I forget to mention is bruises on her leg every few weeks. In the same place (upper outer thigh) and with no explanation.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Another red flag I forget to mention is bruises on her leg every few weeks. In the same place (upper outer thigh) and with no explanation.


This is not a red flag, in my opinion. I frequently get bruises on my outer thighs from bumping into a table, desk, etc. and I haven't had sex in nearly a year!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> Another red flag I forget to mention is bruises on her leg every few weeks. In the same place (upper outer thigh) and with no explanation.


I get unexplained bruises all the time. Was it you who mentioned an iron problem? That's a symptom of that. 


You want that rush of love feeling and it's gone. Easiest solution is that she's giving it to another man, but these things happen in marriage where you end up making crap small talk and live like roommates.

I think that's your problem, you're in a rut. A couple weeks ago your main issue was that your wife doesn't initiate sex. You are bored, you say she has no soul. You've stopped sex because even though she was responsive, that wasn't good enough for you. No sex leads to an even bigger connection gap. You've started spying and accusing which is a turn off for anyone and will lose respect and love. 
You're blowing up your marriage instead of trying to fix it. 


If you divorce and find another woman you will get those butterfly moments again, until a few years down the road when you are right back here. 

Why? Because at the start you both put in effort to meet each other's emotional needs. You date, you talk, you spend a lot of alone time together doing fun stuff. Then when you have been together long enough those things just stop. 
Do you still date your wife? Do you meet her emotional needs? Do you spend 15+ hours a week alone together doing something productive for your marriage?
Marriage is a living thing, you have to feed it and water it and care for it or it dies. 

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Read through all of this but you have to decide if you're walking or staying. Just leaving it out to die a slow death is cruel to everyone.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MenMarsWomenVenus said:


> This time I am doing my best to not say anything and just keep my wits about me to try and get some evidence however I do that before divorce.


Why bother with the evidence? Your marriage is not only bad, it is severely affecting your life. You're miserable and anxious all the time from it. She is raging, hostile, disconnected, and not interested in sex.

It doesn't matter if she is cheating or not, your marriage is already dead.

If infidelity is a factor in your state for divorce settlements, go silent and hire an attorney and PI to get the evidence you need. If infidelity is not a factor, just end the marriage already.


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Sorry you are here man. 

You need to trust your gut, and if it is important for you to know for sure (it was for me) then snoop away. Rarely is the gut wrong, and limbo is hell on earth. 

Regardless, it sounds like your wife has checked out. This sucks. Is it because of the marriage, or is it a combination on the marriage and her **** attitude being amplified by a affair? Many will tell you than when their spouse was in the throes of the affair they become indignant, arrogant *******s. It's really a heart wrenching sight. 

To confront her with nothing will only lead to lies if she is indeed having a affair. Cheaters lie, and they lie a lot. It's remarkable. 

So what do you want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Carefully search for a secret phone and for the missing panties. I've an acquaintance who found his wife's undergarments under the front seat of her car. She had some lame a$$ excuse, but later on she admitted a long term affair.

Anyhow, search her car thoroughly. Every nook and cranny. Even the spare tire compartment. You're looking for a secret phone, condoms, her missing panties, and anything out of the ordinary for her. If she's not a smoker but you find a cigarette butt, you know someone else was in her car. Receipts from a hotel or restaurant could be a clue. A hotel key card is another clue.

Also search her dresser and nightstand. Check in the pockets of jackets, robes, etc hanging in her closet. Check inside boots and shoes. You're looking for a secret phone, so it should be easy to grab yet out of sight. Also any souvenirs such as hotel key cards, love notes, etc.


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