# Update and a true rant...



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

This is for all the men out there who look at their jobs as a sense of identity....as mine does. 

LONG, FAIR WARNING!

Today, Hubbie was dragged in to "counseling" by the corporate hack who in essence said this is no reflection on you but rather tough economic times. No hard feelings, right? Want to add that this moron has no degree in counseling or any degree at all! Hubbie has a degree in Economics and has his MBA but naturally he should be forced to take "advice" from a marketing person. *******! Hubbie sat through 2 hours of bull****, while this idiot told him about all kinds of ways he can "improve" his life. Our only guess is that this "therapy" is designed to diffuse potential psychos from shooting up the place.
So my husband leaves his unasked for and unwanted "therapy session" and then meets with HR. 
HR tells him what a fantastic person he is, what a great contribution he has been and then says that due to limited funds he will only get 2 weeks severance pay!!!!! Two months ago it was one months pay for every year you have been there. He has been with this company for 4 years and with the previous (it got absorbed) for 9 years. TWO WEEKS!!!! 
Fast forward to tonight. He is on a "deployment call" and a new person joined. Hubbie introduced himself and said "Hi, I'm......, what's you name?" The person on the other end said "Wow, this is weird, I have been hired to take your position". My husband had no idea that his company 1. hired somebody else or 2. Would have the balls to put them on the same call. Hubbie was told that the ENTIRE department was going away. 
So while on this call, he gets a text from his boss who just willingly terminated her employment with this company, as of a few hours ago. She texted him that the SVP of Development was given an "incentive" package a few months ago and if he could do more with less overhead, then do it. His "incentive" was that he would get 10% of the salaries of the people he laid off. So of course he laid off the highest paid. ****er. 
My husband saw that text and it took every ounce of strength not to tell the people on the call to go screw themselves but he has to bide his time. But he will. In the meantime he looked like he wanted to toss furniture. So did I! Grrrrrrrrr. I hate them!!
After saying all that, how do you help a man through this? This is so cruel and total crap!

**Wanted to add that he left after the call was over to go for "a drive". No doubt to scream in the car. I HATE these ****ing people**


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Tell me about it. Been off since February.

Corporations suck.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

He has had ALOT of positive feedback and things are looking good for him. You know what pisses me off the most? He can run circles around these morons! You know what sucks even more, seeing his sad face. God, he is a TRILLION times smarter than these idiots but never believed it. How in the world do you not? MENSA member? Really? 
I made chili tonight, which he loved but there was still a chill in the air, if you will. Grrrr. Like I said, I HATE these people.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Boy, that sucks.
All that you can do is be positive for him. Pump him up and be nice. Let him rant and rave, it's huge stress reliever.
I work for idiots, too. It's hard to keep my mouth shut a lot of the time.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

It totally sucks and is absolutely unfair!

How do you help him? I think you already are. It's obvious you're his rock, in love with the man and his biggest advocate. You keep doing that and the two of you are golden.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan, 

Most of the people in this world only care about themselves, they don't care how much pain other people are feeling as long as they are not the one who is suffering. 

I like TAM because I see loving people here, but how many people are there on TAM? 

I stay away from big companies because I know I can't deal with the ugly side of people. Even in a small school, there is back stabbing and a lot of ugly things.

It is difficult for us wives when we see our husbands are in pain, you are a very loving wife, I see it now. Hope your husband sees how much you love him and support him and in the future, he will always remember the great support you give him when he is down. 

Life is full of ups and downs. When we are down, it is only a short term, it gives us time to get ready to climb up another peak. We will, believe me. Your husband will, trust him.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Oh, it get's better! They earlier this afternoon (courier) sent him his "non-compete" agreement that he signed, 13 years ago, with the former company that got absorbed and threatened that if he works in this city within a 50 mile radius he will be in violation. 
His lawyer/hubbies best friend/ in a different state is working on this. It will NOT hold up.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brennan,
Is he over 40? Have you cashed the severance check yet? If not, talk to an employment attorney. I am not much for suing people - and I believe companies "sadly" have a right to terminate staff "at will" but I also think that 2 weeks is incredibly unfair after 13 years of continuous employment. 

If you "don't" take the severance, then you don't have to sign a release of claims. And that leaves the door open for some type negotiation. I am not a lawyer but I do have some experience with corporate HR stuff. Sometimes you can get a settlement without having to actually file a suit. Depends on the situation. Going from 1 month/year to 2 weeks for 13 years seems like an incredibly sharp drop. As for the prior HR person and their bonus plan - likely VERY bad PR for the company if that came out. A lawyer will know far better than I do. 

I genuinely wish you both luck. 





Brennan said:


> This is for all the men out there who look at their jobs as a sense of identity....as mine does.
> 
> LONG, FAIR WARNING!
> 
> ...


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Seems awfully cut-throat!! This can't be a Fortune 500 or better company can it? I've really never heard of such a thing. It's usually the small companies 200 million market cap type stuff where "side conversations" and "side deals" rule the roost.

I've had nothing but a great experience with the 2 corporate jobs I've held. One a Fortune 50 company just a awesome experience and now a Fortune 500 company and to be honest they aren't nearly as generous, but still very awesome. You just don't feel quite as protected as you do in a larger corporation.

Best of luck!! If he is skilled as you say there are still are jobs for quailified people. 3 of my friends have taken new jobs in the last 6 months by choice all are what I would consider good at what they do.

As far as being identified by "your job" can't relate. I would retire tom. if I could. I work for $$$$ and that's it.

If I could make more money cleaning toilet bowls with a toothbrush I would be doing that. Whatever get's me to retirement the fastest, but I'm easy going and could do just about anything and have fun.....it's all in the attitude.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Brennan,
> Is he over 40? Have you cashed the severance check yet? If not, talk to an employment attorney. I am not much for suing people - and I believe companies "sadly" have a right to terminate staff "at will" but I also think that 2 weeks is incredibly unfair after 13 years of continuous employment.
> 
> If you "don't" take the severance, then you don't have to sign a release of claims. And that leaves the door open for some type negotiation. I am not a lawyer but I do have some experience with corporate HR stuff. Sometimes you can get a settlement without having to actually file a suit. Depends on the situation. Going from 1 month/year to 2 weeks for 13 years seems like an incredibly sharp drop. As for the prior HR person and their bonus plan - likely VERY bad PR for the company if that came out. A lawyer will know far better than I do.
> ...


Brennan,

I would echo this.

Do not accept the severance and sign nothing.

Contact the best employment attorney in town immediately and have him/her give them a call.

Make sure he lets them know that the position was not "eliminated" as someone else (cheaper) has already been hired.

They'll cough up some more money.

There is a yellow streak down their backs a mile wide.

Talk to them in the language they understand.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Don't know how things work in Texas, but in MA, the scenario you described I believe, is illegal. If in fact they are claiming a reduction in force (lay off) but made a new hire to fill his position.

And it's illegal for just that reason. Any company could lay off all of their more experienced, older, and more expensive employees and replace them with new, lower cost workers at will. If he is being either terminated or laid off - a non-compete isn't worth the paper it's written on. They can't prevent someone from earning a living.

I agree with MEM and Conrad, no harm talking to an attorney, they are far more likely to at the very least cough up more severance.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Don't know how things work in Texas, but in MA, the scenario you described I believe, is illegal. If in fact they are claiming a reduction in force (lay off) but made a new hire to fill his position.
> 
> And it's illegal for just that reason. Any company could lay off all of their more experienced, older, and more expensive employees and replace them with new, lower cost workers at will. If he is being either terminated or laid off - a non-compete isn't worth the paper it's written on. They can't prevent someone from earning a living.
> 
> I agree with MEM and Conrad, no harm talking to an attorney, they are far more likely to at the very least cough up more severance.


Hey guys. Thanks for all the advice. To clarify, he hasn't received a severance check yet as his job isn't officially over until Dec. 31st. He will sign nothing when that happens. His non-compete agreement was signed when he started with the company 13 years ago and has language in it that implies it is contractual for 5 years. It will not hold up under any circumstances. Why they sent it over without looking at it is laughable at best. 
No, this isn't a Fortune 500 company. It is large though. They have however been having layoffs for over two years. They have shut down entire departments and those that weren't laid off, absorbed the job responsibilities of those that were. If for whatever reason, the work load got too much, they would either outsource it or terminate a higher paid employee to hire 2 lesser paid ones. This is an at will employment state and he is not over 40 (yet) so that argument doesn't hold up.
What does hold up? Changing the rules to suit their game with regards to going from 1 months pay for every year of employment (which would be 13 months of his salary) to now saying sorry, you only get two weeks, we need to save money. 
He spoke with his best friend/lawyer this morning. He is going to give us some names of employment lawyers out here. He also mentioned that CLEARLY it is not known to the company that any of the "laid off people" know that this incentive package exists. If the company knew that one of the minions knew what was going on, they would change their actions regarding severance in a heartbeat to avoid a public relations nightmare. My husband's (now former) boss resigned yesterday. As I mentioned, she texted him this information while he was on a work call. She is awesome and always had his back and was furious that they are letting him go. I think he is the only one who knows about this incentive deal of the "laid off people" and with knowledge, there is power. I think she knew that too.
Whatever attorney we hire will also know that. I wish it didn't end like this but he and I are prepared to nail them. 
People get laid off all the time, it happens. Changing the rules though, big difference.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan,

I've successfully sued former employers for payments to others that weren't made to me - and that was after I resigned.

Just be certain the names and dates are correct on the payments/packages.

They'll fold like cheap cameras.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Conrad,
Not sure if I read what you wrote correctly. Please elaborate. 
And you're NOT a retard! Take that off as your tag line!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Conrad,
> Not sure if I read what you wrote correctly. Please elaborate.
> And you're NOT a retard! Take that off as your tag line!!


Brennan,

I sued the bastards for a bonus due me following my resignation.

To be successful, I had to furnish names and dates of people who were compensated after resignation - under the same circumstances.

If there is precedent, they'll have no choice but to pay up.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Brennan,
> 
> I sued the bastards for a bonus due me following my resignation.
> 
> ...


I am confident that this company will "pay up", one way or another. At this point, they think my husband just thinks he was laid off. That's not the case though. He was "laid off" so some ******* could get a fatter paycheck and then they rook him on severance. Right now, my husband is laying low until he gets the names of employment lawyers that his best friend recommends. 
What does he want to do? Call the other people who were laid off and tell them why. Is he going to without speaking to an employment attorney first? No. 
He will get what is rightfully his, either in "hush" money or the company will compensate all the employees that they screwed over. I know exactly which way he is leaning but we need to make certain this cannot come back to bite him on the butt.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Brennan,
> 
> Most of the people in this world only care about themselves, they don't care how much pain other people are feeling as long as they are not the one who is suffering.
> 
> ...


I wanted to thank you, GP. I do not always agree with you but I truly appreciate what you wrote. I am a loving wife. I don't always come off that way though. I love this man, always have, always will. When I see someone hurting him, I come out swinging. Your mention about the climb....so true! I know right now he depends on me for moral support. I have b!tched long and hard on this website about him. You know what? He's awesome. He really is. I guess sometimes it takes something like this to see it. 
We have issues in our marriage. You know what we don't have to struggle with though? Banding together. 
No matter what, no matter the circumstance, no matter what life tosses at us, we have always come together and pushed through it. It's all for one and one for all. You screw with my husband....you get me. Somebody screws with me....you get my husband. That's how it is.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> I wanted to thank you, GP. I do not always agree with you but I truly appreciate what you wrote. I am a loving wife. I don't always come off that way though. I love this man, always have, always will. When I see someone hurting him, I come out swinging. Your mention about the climb....so true! I know right now he depends on me for moral support. I have b!tched long and hard on this website about him. You know what? He's awesome. He really is. I guess sometimes it takes something like this to see it.
> We have issues in our marriage. You know what we don't have to struggle with though? Banding together.
> No matter what, no matter the circumstance, no matter what life tosses at us, we have always come together and pushed through it. It's all for one and one for all. You screw with my husband....you get me. Somebody screws with me....you get my husband. That's how it is.


Brennan,

I am very happy reading this post, this shows how much you care about your loving husband.  

If you care about him so much, it means he is a wonderful man. My intuition. I still remember the wonderful things you told me what your husband does for you. Like making sure you have enough cash in your wallet or making sure your car has gas. Did you tell me that?  He is a wonderful man!

As a couple, and there are so many years together, we will face storms in our life for sure, no one is excluded. But if the husband and wife face the storm together, they support each other, they help each other, they love each other, the storms will be overcome!!! FOR SURE! And after the storm, their love for each other will be even stronger!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Can I offer a more practical viewpoint?

First, I was someone who had to lay off my entire department.... a few at a time. It isn't personal, it isn't that they didn't do a good job. These days a lot of companies are struggling and yeah, they did reward those who stay but the net bottom line is that they reduced expenses and saved the jobs of those who stayed (upper management and the grunts in the trenches) at least for a while.

And when it came to my time, I got a fraction of the severance that people a year before me got.

I know the initial response it to get angry, sue, etc... but that is wasted energy. People who are laid off should focus on their job hunt, maintaining their contacts and references (including the a-holes who just laid you off).

As a hiring manager now, the last thing I want to hear from an applicant is that they are suing their former employer. It's a huge red flag for any prospective employer and with 9% unemployment today, there's plenty of applicants out there to choose from NOT suing former employer.

He should be asking for a letter of reference from as many people in the company as possible. He should tell them that he is available to answer any questions that come up and to work on a contract basis if necessary.

Remember what the ultimate goal is... to find another job and everything he does (and YOU do either actively or as support) should be geared towards that.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I am going to side with Chris Taylor on this one.

Yes, of course - listen and be suppportive - but remember. . .Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.

In this case, men don't want to just usually commiserate and share their feelings - they want a problem solver to collaborate with and brainstorm. You don't have to brainstorm every night but as he brings home ideas. . .give opinions and counsel.

You are valued counsel at this time as he replots his life.

And yes, the non-compete is null and void as a reasonable noncompete should have these two items:

A. A reasonable distance
B. A reasonable term 

(like 10 miles and 2 years)

You can't force someone to not make a living. I am in a profession where valid non-competes can be held up but this smacks of totally invalid.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Chris and Scanner,
He isn't "focusing" on suing his employer. He is focusing on finding something new. That is his main priority. He has plenty of contacts and his name is well regarded in the industry. His former boss wrote him a glowing letter of recommendation and his boss before that as well. Both have offered up as being professional references as has nearly 40 other business contacts. 
Having said that, we are talking a six figure difference between the "package" they had in place two months ago, to what they are telling him now and that change has everything to do with a new incentive package being offered to one particular person. Change the policy that has been in place for 13 years without any notice to the employees until they are laid off? They haven't even changed their written policy, it is just by word of mouth. 13 years with the same company that plays it by the book and suddenly during financial hardship they can just verbally change it? They have a written policy that states severance is 1 month salary for every year worked at the company. Anybody and I mean anybody would pursue this. 
Scanner,
Of course his non-compete is in-valid. It was laughable that they sent it over as some sort of intimidation tactic. It just pissed him off. Not a good thing.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Scanner,
> Of course his non-compete is in-valid. It was laughable that they sent it over as some sort of intimidation tactic. It just pissed him off. Not a good thing.


And typically a non-compete clause applies only when you voluntarily leave a company. Not when laid off.

I will say one thing about these sagging economic times--as someone out of work since February. It's tough out there. Contacts or no, a lot of rethinking has to be done to succeed.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

michzz said:


> And typically a non-compete clause applies only when you voluntarily leave a company. Not when laid off.
> 
> I will say one thing about these sagging economic times--as someone out of work since February. It's tough out there. Contacts or no, a lot of rethinking has to be done to succeed.


Agreed, Michzz. He has a friend who works at IBM who said that they have a position as a Senior Software Engineer that he would be well suited for. He told me about this, with a look of disgust on his face, despite the fact that it would pay the same (actually a tad more) than what he currently makes. The reason why he doesn't want this? He wants to be in charge. His damn ego is getting in the way. 
You know what he fails to see? Sometimes you suck it up and deal with reality. Sometimes it isn't all about your ego. Yeah, I am a bit upset right now. I got laid off 2 years ago and my job isn't what it used to be, either in pay or prestige. You know what? You deal with it. Grrrrr.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

"Bird in hand..." comes to mind.

Nothing to stop a person to accept a well-paying job and keep looking for the next one.

But not take a job and the next one doesn't appear?

Hmmm.


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## valaria (Oct 18, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I am going to side with Chris Taylor on this one.
> 
> Yes, of course - listen and be suppportive - but remember. . .Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.
> 
> ...


Just a note..the non-compete is also void in all instances where the employee is "laid off" versus "fired" the non-compete was developed to stop corporate espionage. It is very specific in the fact it " can not stop someone from acquiring other gainful employment." However if the employee wants to fight for benefits they are due under the corporations guidelines for being laid off they have every Right and should pursue them, with great ardor... this will be kept quiet under the law, and future employers can only ask when you started with the previous company and why you left, NOT what you may be doing about it...So HR people out there remember the LAW, you may ask start and leave date from a prior employer NOT if the employee is suing them. And unless YOUR company regularly breaks the law you already know and practice this. Any previous employer who reveals any opinions, performance reviews or just gives general information on a former employee is in violation of FEDERAL LAW. Unless a former employer has filed legal charges against said employee he is not permitted to release information deemed Company Personal Information. SEE the United States Employment Act. The Corporate Information Act. And the Uniform Privacy Act.


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