# Some Things Are Worse on Kids Than Divorce



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Hello all,

Since I last posted, my STBX and I have had our first court hearing. We're going to try one more session of mediation, with lawyers present this time, to try to work out the final details.

Meanwhile, we took our son to see a developmental pediatrician. Our son has been exhibiting some maladaptive symptoms; my STBX, being a former school teacher, was quick to suspect autism or Asperger's. I suspect it's something much worse.

We talked with the doctor for a while. Our son sat there the whole time pretending his name was "Johnny," which is the name of a firefighter on a favorite DVD of his. He sat there the entire time and carried on a conversation with the doctor, answering questions appropriately, looking the doctor in the eye. Doing everything a normal, not-autistic child would do. But he did it IN CHARACTER. No matter how many times the doctor asked him his name, he kept saying it was "Johnny." (Johnny is not really his name, BTW...)

I've seen him to this role-playing thing for HOURS. He can recite almost every line of a TV show or movie he's interested in. But sometimes, he'll branch out and start making up new plots. He'll think through cause-and-effect, and be able to predict outcomes. His thinking will be SO incredibly clear, and yet he's doing it all in an alternate identity.

The doctor excused herself to go make some phone calls. Under the pretense of needing to pee, I walked out into the hallway. The doctor was standing there, looking very pensive, and deep in thought. 

When she saw me come out, she pulled me aside and said, "OK...tell me what's really going on in your divorce?"

Oh my...how do you summarize 18 years of bat-**** behavior? I gave this brief summary: "After a year of counseling, she refused to return. The counselor suspects it might be a personality disorder. She's lucid and appropriate today, but our son has been in the room for some VERY bizarre and paranoid arguments. I've been falsely reported to CPS..."

The doctor interrupted me to say, "When I heard that your in-laws are living full time in an RV, I was concerned. Your STBX also seems enmeshed in the church to an unhealthy level. And I'm VERY uncomfortable with the thought of her home-schooling him and being his only source of socialization..."

I interrupted, because I knew the STBX would get suspicious if I didn't return soon. I said, "My gut tells me that my son has absorbed the FEELINGS of our dysfunction even if he can't find the WORDS to describe how he's feeling. I'm afraid he's dissociating because his pretend world is safer than his real world."

The doctor got a relieved look on her face, grabbed my arm, and said, "That's exactly the right word! I'm glad you see it! He's dissociating and withdrawing from reality."

Holy crap. A doctor who only spent sixty minutes with us saw the issue right away.

Holy crap.

This is much deeper than my own pain and suffering. This is impacting my son. 

The doctor is going to try to get an expedited meeting with a psychologist soon. She's also hoping to get a child psychiatrist to see him.

Not sure where things are going to go from here. I'm very concerned about my son. And feeling very confident that leaving that mess was the only option I had.

Wasn't looking for any validation today (I'm trying to recover from being codependent!). But holy crap.....


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Since I last posted, my STBX and I have had our first court hearing. We're going to try one more session of mediation, with lawyers present this time, to try to work out the final details.
> 
> ...



He has you. I feel you know what you have to do and will do it. He's lucky he has you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh my, that's a lot to take in. I'm glad your son has you! Will this DR's opinion be helpful with you getting custody?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Possibly...gotta wait and see what the doctor actually reports. A whispered conversation in the hallway isn't exactly credible courtroom evidence. I alerted my lawyer today by way of heads-up. But I need to wait until the report comes out....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

The blows keep coming. I was out flying a trip this weekend. And I've quit going to the church we formerly attended together. But I still have a couple of friends there who still talk to me (most have taken her side, since I'm obviously the "sinner" because I left). My STBX wasn't there, but her best friend was. According to MY friend, HER friend reported to the class that our son has been "diagnosed" with autism by a "top psychologist at Children's Hospital..."

This angers me intensely. This is obviously all hearsay, since it was reported about a friend, by a friend. However, my friend is generally accurate. And I do know my STBX shares almost everything with her friend. So it's at least plausible to think that maybe my STBX has been taking liberties with the truth (again).

It's not autism, per se, that angers me. I will love my son no matter what diagnosis he has. But what angers me is that the autism label has the potential to profoundly affect a child's life. Attaching this label to a 5-year old when no definitive diagnosis has been rendered yet strikes me as being obscenely inappropriate and potentially hurtful. And especially since my conversation with the doctor led me to believe she (the doctor) thinks my son's issues might have more to do with living with a bat-**** woman than it does with autism.

She can say whatever she wants about me (and likely has!). I am beyond caring what she says about me. But if she is saying things that might attach a label to our son which could be damaging to him if it's inaccurate.....well, that's just beyond the pale.

I've felt guilty, confused, and sad. But tonight I am just mad!

A good Christian friend of mine texted me today to tell me maybe it was time for me to turn over some moneychangers' tables. She was speaking figuratively, of course. But she meant maybe it was time for some righteous anger. 

As it turns out, she may have been more correct than she knew. I am angry tonight. I don't think inappropriately so, but I am still angry. I can't believe that my STBX seems to be in such a rush to label our son autistic.....

I've already sent an e-mail to my lawyer. Probably nothing I can do legally, but I do intend to tell the ex that she needs to cease and desist with the labeling. At least until a diagnosis is rendered.

Dealing with disordered people really sucks!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hurt,

I'm assuming you have that doctor's name?

Give that doctor's name to your attorney.

He'll know what to do with that sort of testimony.

You will likely be able to get full custody.

And, you should.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Remember too that sometimes clinicians give a diagnosis because that gives a kid access to the services they need. If I were you, I'd accept that for now, so long as the services they're offering are the ones he needs, but push for re-evaluation in a few years. IIRC, something like 10% of kids outgrow the autism diagnosis (probably mostly the ones who were incorrectly diagnosed in the first place.)


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

northernlights said:


> Remember too that sometimes clinicians give a diagnosis because that gives a kid access to the services they need. If I were you, I'd accept that for now, so long as the services they're offering are the ones he needs, but push for re-evaluation in a few years. IIRC, something like 10% of kids outgrow the autism diagnosis (probably mostly the ones who were incorrectly diagnosed in the first place.)


THERE HAS BEEN NO DIAGNOSIS AT ALL YET...that's the point here. My wife is telling everyone there has been a diagnosis, but nothing has been diagnosed. Other than "adjustment disorder," which my own therapist has diagnosed ME with! Adjustment disorder just means I (and my son) are having a hard time dealing with a difficult period in our lives.

I'm not afraid of autism if that's what he really has. But I'm mad enough to spit to think that she's running around generating sympathy WHEN THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY TYPE OF SIGNIFICANT DIAGNOSIS YET! She's using her own son to get sympathy!

This is sick beyond words. Trashing me is fine. But telling people there's a diagnosis when there hasn't been one is WAY the hell out there.....


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Hurt,
> 
> I'm assuming you have that doctor's name?
> 
> ...


I e-mailed a summation of everything to my lawyer the same day.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh, I'm sorry! I thought you meant she'd gotten the diagnosis from his clinician but didn't tell you, and instead let you find out through the grapevine. Oh, my.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> I e-mailed a summation of everything to my lawyer the same day.


Send him the doctor's contact info - and tell him you want him to get his professional opinion on your son.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Well, I drew the line in the sand. I sent a certified letter to the "friend" who blabbed in church about things she knew nothing about. It basically said, "Hey, just thought you ought to know, your name is being attributed to some false information that's being circulated about my son....here are the facts....if you did say anything like this, please publicly correct the record. If you didn't, you need to know that someone is telling lies about you, too...."

Then I sent a lawyer-reviewed, certified letter to my wife that said basically to cease and desist discussing our son's medical and psychological issues until and unless we have a real diagnosis. My lawyer says there's pretty much zero we can do about any of this legally, but I feel it's time to draw a line in the sand. She can trash my reputation all she wants, but to falsely claim that our son is autistic before all the facts are in? I'll be damned if I let her do the same stuff to him she's done to me all these years.

I had an unexpected moment of confirmation today. Today was a visitation day with my son. We were alone in my apartment, and out of the clear blue he said, "Daddy, I want to tell you something. When you and Momma used to get together and argue all the time, it made me tired and I just wanted it to stop."

I hugged him and told him I was sorry and that the reason Daddy moved out was so the arguments would stop. I told him that nothing could ever change my love for him and that there was nothing he did to cause the arguments.

Here's what haunts me...since I've moved out, there have been fewer arguments. Or maybe I should say fewer in the home. Our arguments now are via certified mail and lawyers. And we've been separated now for over a year.

That tells me he picked up on a WHOLE hell of a lot more than he could articulate.

That's what makes me angry now. I REPEATEDLY asked her to knock it off when she was in one of her tirades against me our of respect for our son. And she repeatedly said she wasn't doing anything wrong and that he didn't understand anyway. 

Turns out, he was taking in a whole lot more than she ever knew. He just didn't have the vocabulary to express what he was feeling until now.

I guess none of that matters now. I will continue giving him an emotionally safe space to bring up things like this to me. But she's toxic, I'm getting away, and I'm going to get healthy to be the best Daddy I can be. That's my goal now.

But it still kinda broke my heart to hear how much that kind of stuff has hurt him....


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Oh my...how do you summarize 18 years of bat-**** behavior? I gave this brief summary: "After a year of counseling, she refused to return. The counselor suspects it might be a personality disorder. She's lucid and appropriate today, but our son has been in the room for some VERY bizarre and paranoid arguments. I've been falsely reported to CPS..."

The doctor interrupted me to say, "When I heard that your in-laws are living full time in an RV, I was concerned. Your STBX also seems enmeshed in the church to an unhealthy level. And I'm VERY uncomfortable with the thought of her home-schooling him and being his only source of socialization..."

I interrupted, because I knew the STBX would get suspicious if I didn't return soon. I said, "My gut tells me that my son has absorbed the FEELINGS of our dysfunction even if he can't find the WORDS to describe how he's feeling. I'm afraid he's dissociating because his pretend world is safer than his real world."


** I can empathize that you're in a tricky, stressful situation, and I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I didn't read anything here that suggests that your ex shouldn't have access/shared custody of your son. Has she been diagnosed with a personality disorder? Could she also be under a lot of stress through the separation? Have you looked for a second opinion for your son?

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate, with respect.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lucy mulholland said:


> ** I can empathize that you're in a tricky, stressful situation, and I obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I didn't read anything here that suggests that your ex shouldn't have access/shared custody of your son. Has she been diagnosed with a personality disorder? Could she also be under a lot of stress through the separation? Have you looked for a second opinion for your son?
> 
> Just playing a bit of devil's advocate, with respect.


No, she hasn't been diagnosed. Mainly because she refuses to acknowledge she might have a problem, so she refuses to even be evaluated. Our old marriage counselor and our family doctor highly suspect a personality disorder. And apparently pediatricians who only spend 45 minutes with her and our son pick up on some subtle red flags. But she hasn't been diagnosed.

At present time, I'm not fighting to keep him away from her. If anything, the situation is just the opposite. She has established herself (in her own mind, at least) as the only one who does what's best for our son. 

She's homeschooling him so the awful, evil, "secular" public schools don't brainwash him. 

She "lets" him spend days with me on my days off, but refuses to permit him to stay overnight with me. She claims my sleep apnea might make it hard for me to hear him if he cries in his sleep (my apnea is being treated by CPAP and I've never heard of apnea being cited as a cause of child endangerment before).

So if anything, my lawyer and I are trying to establish that I should be on equal footing with HER as a parent.

What I summarized here is so brief it doesn't really convey the depths of my wife's problems. I was just summarizing what the doctor said. The things the doctor said don't even scratch the surface of all the bat-**** behavior my son and I have witnessed, but it was enough for an experienced doctor to pick up on almost immediately. If the doctor had only been there the day my wife was screaming at me for supposedly bugging the phones.....THAT was entertainment at its best! 

So no, I am not trying (for now) to prevent shared parenting or custody. Mainly because my lawyer advises we don't have a strong enough case for that yet. But I also will not just back off and let her call all the shots like she's been trying to do for years now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Well, I drew the line in the sand. I sent a certified letter to the "friend" who blabbed in church about things she knew nothing about. It basically said, "Hey, just thought you ought to know, your name is being attributed to some false information that's being circulated about my son....here are the facts....if you did say anything like this, please publicly correct the record. If you didn't, you need to know that someone is telling lies about you, too...."
> 
> Then I sent a lawyer-reviewed, certified letter to my wife that said basically to cease and desist discussing our son's medical and psychological issues until and unless we have a real diagnosis. My lawyer says there's pretty much zero we can do about any of this legally, but I feel it's time to draw a line in the sand. She can trash my reputation all she wants, but to falsely claim that our son is autistic before all the facts are in? I'll be damned if I let her do the same stuff to him she's done to me all these years.
> 
> ...


"I repeatedly told her to knock it off"

How did you enforce that boundary?


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

hurtnohio said:


> The things the doctor said don't even scratch the surface of all the bat-**** behavior my son and I have witnessed, but it was enough for an experienced doctor to pick up on almost immediately. If the doctor had only been there the day my wife was screaming at me for supposedly bugging the phones.....THAT was entertainment at its best!
> .


My mother was like this after her nervous breakdown. Well, she was like this on and off my whole childhood, but before the nervous breakdown the really crazy stuff only came out about once a year. After, it was daily, then weekly, then tapered off to never. I remember being about 15 and my mom asking me when we were alone if she was dying, and everyone else knew but no one was telling her.

It's a lot for a kid to deal with. My dad treated it very matter of factly ("your mom's sick right now but she's getting better and she's going to be fine. Sometimes you're just going to have to ignore what she says."), and that was somewhat helpful because at least it was acknowledged, but it was still a lot to deal with. 

You're definitely doing the right thing to acknowledge what he's heard and seen and reassure him. Hearing the same reassurances from a professional is ideal too. I know I'm more reflexively doubtful than most people, and I was like this even as a kid, but I've always felt more confident with a professional opinion. 

However, I still have a great relationship with my mom (she made a pretty complete recovery), and I hope your son can too. Dealing with mental illness in the family from a young age is a great lesson in de-stigmatizing it and understanding that it's an illness just like any other.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi, I just wanted to chime in and say as a parent of a child with aspergers, there is no way your son could change his behavior as you described in your first post.

I do wish to voice a concern not to worry you but, perhaps to help your son. Is it possible your son may be developing a split personality? I know some psychologist don't believe in that diagnosis but, it may be his way to cope. Whatever it may be by pretending he's someone else, he's showing strong signs of being traumatized , I don't think it's the separation it's self but with his mother's behavior. 

It's very hard for an adult to cope with someone not mentality stable, for children it's a burden that is too heavy for them and impedes their mental development.

I think you have been very wise and your child needs to be away from her until she can get better if she actually seeks help, if not maybe realizing the damage she is causing your son can get her to change.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad said:


> "I repeatedly told her to knock it off"
> 
> How did you enforce that boundary?


I tried to walk out the door for a 30 minute time out. She would physically block the door and practically dare me to lay a finger on her. 

I brought these things up in front of the counselor. She would rant and rave in front of the counselor and we wouldn't make any headway.

Ultimately, I told her I wanted a divorce and moved out. And apparently, even that hasn't gotten her attention. She still blames me.

I'll be completely transparent here and say that I'm feeling like I'm lapsing back into codependency by talking about this so much lately. I'm going to quit posting here for a few days. What's done is done and I'm not going to rehash it. I don't need anyone here to validate the decisions I've made, and I really have said too much already.

The bottom line is this: Together, we were utterly toxic. I'm trying to get healthier. She's never even admitted she had a problem. That's not a partnership. I have to move on. If nothing else, I need to do this for my son.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

No one is suggesting you move back in with her.

I'm thinking with that physician as an expert witness, you've got a shot at full custody.

You certainly aren't going to argue your son "needs his mother" are you?


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