# Turning a woman on.



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Since I am asking for information on sexual pleasure, I think it would be good to give you a little background about my wife and I. I will try and keep it really short.

My wife and I both come from very religious background and we were both virgins on our wedding night. It happens that I am HD and very interested in sexual pleasure. My wife could be called LD, but I think low priority (LP) would be a better description of her. In the nearly 19 years we have been married we have gone through almost every issue a HD and a LD person can. The way I describe it now is: we had a lot to learn and we are getting there.

I have read and read and read some more about sexual experience/ intimacy. One thing I have taken to heart is the idea that each person needs to learn to be a great lover, it does not come natural to most. In this thread I hope to learn more about turning a woman on.

So guys how do you turn a woman on? Ladies what does a man do that really revs your engine? When I ask my wife I get no response. Except for once; when she cried (just the response every husband wants). @Marduk has indicated in several posts that he learned how to turn a woman on and get them to do 'wild' things. Other commentators have indicated similar things. Can anyone offers suggestions or point out good resources.

On another web site a man talked about how he keeps going after his orgasm. As he continued the sexual experience his wife would get so into the experience that she would be sexually charged for hours. Literally preventing her from going to sleep for 3-4 hrs after they were done. Have any of you experienced something similar? Can you offer insight or point me to resources.

(I know someone will comment about how I treat my wife. Let me just say; I talk to my wife about this topic extensively and I do not do anything that she is not OK with. I have no interest in ruining her night of sleep (day time does exist) or in making her uncomfortable. But if I can create a better, more intense, varied experience for her, then I'm in. I am the only man she ever intends to have sex with, so I want to make it the best I can)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It’s always difficult to answer these kinds of threads because how to turn your woman on is not what would turn me and other women on.

Basically if you are saying that she literally never is turned on, then she may never get there. People can shut their entire body off and stay that way forever. If she cannot even discuss being turned on then chances are she isn’t going to be.

How often do you have sex?

Does she have orgasms?

Does she masturbate?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s always difficult to answer these kinds of threads because how to turn your woman on is not what would turn me and other women on.
> 
> Basically if you are saying that she literally never is turned on, then she may never get there. People can shut their entire body off and stay that way forever. If she cannot even discuss being turned on then chances are she isn’t going to be.
> 
> ...


I have similar thoughts that a lot of it is mental. She gets turned on when we are having sex. But I can't figure out how to turn her on, in terms of creating excitement for her.

Currently, We average about 3 times a week. She gets off every time. She will masturbate if I ask her to. Last time I asked she did not get off. She ran out of time.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

leftfield said:


> I have similar thoughts that a lot of it is mental. She gets turned on when we are having sex. But I can't figure out how to turn her on, in terms of creating excitement for her.


It is possible that I will have more success with the idea of a long sustained excitement.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You may have to accept that she just doesn’t get turned on when not actually having sex. If she is turned on and getting off from sex 3 times a week, it may be unrealistic to expect her to be turned on in between.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

My biggest turn on is comfort, communication, and feeling like he actually cares about my body and orgasm and it isn't just a precursor to his own. 

My suggestions would be 

A- Start with adding non-sexual hugs, bubble baths, massages, cuddling to the table. This way she gets more used to touch and intimacy that doesn't always require her to be sexual 

B- Foreplay starts in the morning. Hard kiss, hand on the back of her head, "My gosh you look beautiful this morning" Text a bit through the day, ask how she's doing, compliment dinner and do the clean up after without being asked. 

C- Be confident and assertive. Don't "can we have sex... maybe.... if you want.... ok?" be "I can't wait to kiss you tonight, I am going to run my hands all over your ….. and so on" Gently assertive and focusing on her pleasure (ie no "I can't wait to get you to give be a bj tonight") 

D- Try picking up a fun dice or card game from a sex shop (or amazon) shopping for one together can be foreplay on it's own and going through the card suggestions can give you some fun new things to try (and some vetos you know you can't ask for) Most are fairly tame. Anything that lowers the pressure and turns it into fun is good. You can make you own, each write out some cards (make them tame and teasing like - full body massage without touching the naughty parts for 10 minutes) and put them in a box to draw one card each week. 

Finally- lower some expectations of "wild" She may never want to do some things and if she feels pressure, it could shut her down to everything. 

Oh and date night the crap out of each other. Like you just met. Bring flowers sometimes, go out to somewhere nice, see a movie, go for a walk and bring a picnic basket, put a fire on and play your wedding song and dance in the living room, etc. 
Good sex comes with good romance and fulfilled emotional needs.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

There’s a book called “Light Her Fire” that came out in, I think, the 80s or 90s and I remember it being good. I wish there were a Kindle version.

As far as sexual pleasure, @StarFires has a great post about how to perform cunnilingus and give her vaginal orgasms by hitting the right spots. If you hear a woman say about his penis, “and he knows how to use it,” that’s what they are talking about.

One modification of her advice on cunnilingus, though. She mentions a lover who didn’t stop after she’d orgasmed and she pushed him away or otherwise let him know to stop. Although it was uncomfortable (like if W kept sucking on your head after you’ve orgasmed and your head is raw), it then turned into even better orgasms...

I say that when your W is done orgasming and pushes you away (or says to stop), only stop temporarily. You’ve just primed the pump. Wait about 20 seconds for her clit to calm down, then go right back to what you were doing that made her orgasm. She should immediately begin orgasming again, probably stronger and multiples. When she’s raw again, stop and wait another 20 seconds. Repeat until she can’t go any longer. She may feel her heartbeat pounding in her clit, or it’s just so numb she can’t have any more. Only then move on to intercourse and try to give her some vaginal orgasms.

She doesn’t necessarily need any sex drive at all. If she knows that it’s important to you, and she gets lots of orgasms when you make love, she will probably go along with it sometimes to make you happy.

I remember my wife getting turned on after watching Magic Mike and we had sex right after. Something like that can be good. I’d also ask her how you can improve yourself physically to be more attractive to her, what cologne turns her on, how you dress, etc.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

A lot of it is setting the atmosphere. We did date nights before the kids were grown and out. (Thank god for inlaws that understood that we needed some alone time) Since at least one of our common love languages is acts of service and to that end, we still set the atmosphere. A home cooked gourmet meal, wine, candles, the bed made, no phones, no tv. One of my wife's friends said that she would give her eye teeth if her husband would take a shower beforehand. (damn, if true, thats gross) Get into each other's head, think and act sexy. We have been married now almost 42years. And even though we have it fairly often, we still make it a special event (I cannot understand people who view sex as a bodily function, and dismiss it accordingly)


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> You may have to accept that she just doesn’t get turned on when not actually having sex. If she is turned on and getting off from sex 3 times a week, it may be unrealistic to expect her to be turned on in between.


I seems that you are indicating that frequency might be an issue for her. That she is just not able to get into it more often.

I don't think that is the case in this situation. She has handled 5-6 times in a weekend multiple times. Back when we struggled with frequency she was getting into it and getting off about 5 times a week. She has done it 9-10 times in a single week and when asked about it, responds, 'hmm it was good, I never would have guessed we did it that much'. 

If you are suggesting another issue, please try and explain again.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I guess it’s different for me because I’m just always switched on. It doesn’t come from an outside source. And then when I can actually have sex or it’s in the near future, then I let it fly. It is not something that happens to me it is something I allow to come out of me. So some of these discussions are foreign to me.

But it seems like I’ve read a lot of stories of women like your wife, who do enjoy sex and have it regularly, but don’t seem to see any reason to be turned on in between times. Seems like women like this usually are not going to change that aspect of themselves.
@Cletus and @alexm come to mind, but neither of them are around currently I don’t think.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My biggest turn on is comfort, communication, and feeling like he actually cares about my body and orgasm and it isn't just a precursor to his own.
> 
> My suggestions would be
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input and the points to follow. It is good to see them laid out like that.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

leftfield said:


> Since I am
> So guys how do you turn a woman on? Ladies what does a man do that really revs your engine? When I ask my wife I get no response. *Except for once; when she cried (just the response every husband wants). *@Marduk has indicated in several posts that he learned how to turn a woman on and get them to do 'wild' things. Other commentators have indicated similar things. Can anyone offers suggestions or point out good resources.


Why did your wife start crying after you asked her what she liked?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> Why did your wife start crying after you asked her what she liked?


The exact question was closer to: "If I wanted to take you on a date night and try to keep you as revved up as possible the whole time, what should I do?" She cried because she had no answer and she didn't want to disappoint me. At least that is how I interpret it.

Let me stress, that I was not trying to put pressure on her or define this "revved up as possible". I was just looking to help her have a sexual response.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

leftfield said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > Why did your wife start crying after you asked her what she liked?
> ...


There is a fine line between wanting to do everything to please your wife and making her feel pressure to orgasm, feel attraction, etc. Don’t make her feel pressure to feel things she can’t control. She cried because she wants to give you what you want but she can’t.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

leftfield said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > Why did your wife start crying after you asked her what she liked?
> ...


Ah okay. It's possible that your wife is telling you the truth when she says she doesn't know what turns her on. She may be feeling undo pressure from you whenever you ask her to provide input. 

There is book that I think you should read. It's called Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. It may give you some insight into your wife.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

leftfield said:


> Let me stress, that I was not trying to put pressure on her or define this "revved up as possible". I was just looking to help her have a sexual response.


Was she asking for your help?


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> There is a fine line between wanting to do everything to please your wife and making her feel pressure to orgasm, feel attraction, etc. Don’t make her feel pressure to feel things she can’t control. She cried because she wants to give you what you want but she can’t.


Exactly. Or, there is a bit of internal shame going on here. She knows what she wants, but it may be a bit "out there" (in her mind). She may think that by telling you she will hurt your feelings. You're already coming directly to her and asking how to turn her on (which is, in itself, a turnoff), so that shows that you're a bit on the sensitive/empathetic side. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not necessarily "light my undies on fire" kind of behavior.

Check out my book. It may be what you're looking for: *The Dead Bedroom Fix.*


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> Thanks for the input and the points to follow. It is good to see them laid out like that.


Sounds like you're a lot further along than many couples and have a good base. Is there anything specific you are trying to add? If it's just a general wanting her to be more turned on, what specifically could she do that would show you that? 

I think if you could find some specific things you'd like vs just general "be more sexual" it would help.

Being turned on should be the natural side effect of a date night or a night of a bubble bath and a massage, a lot of men go into it focused on that as a goal instead of an add-on to an already wonderful night. (if that makes any sense) 

If I was asked to go on a date to keep me turned on, I'd feel so much pressure but I'm naturally in the mood when things have been romantic and my needs are met. 

And if you what you will only ever have is a wife who enjoys sex and will try some new things (like the cards) and has non-sexual touch with you and tries to be sexual in her own way-- awesome! Can you be satisfied with this? For some people, this is their best and it's not going to change.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> It's possible that your wife is telling you the truth when she says she doesn't know what turns her on. She may be feeling undo pressure from you whenever you ask her to provide input.
> 
> There is book that I think you should read. It's called Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. It may give you some insight into your wife.


She is telling me the truth, she does not know. And she is not really interested in figuring it out. She is OK, if I figure it out for her, thus the starting of this thread. My wife would not describe it as pressure (yes we have talked about this), but I understand your point.

I will look into the book.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> Was she asking for your help?


No she did not ask me to create a sexual experience for her.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Your wife is okay exactly the way she is. Her sex drive isn’t defective. It is what it is.

Let her know that. And stop initiating sex so frequently.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> You're already coming directly to her and asking how to turn her on (which is, in itself, a turnoff), so that shows that you're a bit on the sensitive/empathetic side. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not necessarily "light my undies on fire" kind of behavior.


This is correct.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sounds like you're a lot further along than many couples and have a good base. Is there anything specific you are trying to add? If it's just a general wanting her to be more turned on, what specifically could she do that would show you that?
> 
> I think if you could find some specific things you'd like vs just general "be more sexual" it would help.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. This part does not seem to be natural to my wife: "Being turned on should be the natural side effect of a date night or a night of a bubble bath and a massage". She has to make a decision to have this happen. 

I will think about specific things, and post back about that.

Your question about her best is interesting. We have it good right now. We can still try to improve. No one knows what that might look like. Getting better could have nothing to do with the current topic.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> Your wife is okay exactly the way she is. Her sex drive isn’t defective. It is what it is.
> 
> Let her know that. And stop initiating sex so frequently.


This is a nice judgmental post. Not particularly helpful.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Just try to keep in mind that wild sex is a little overrated. I say this as someone who's BTDT. My best and most memorable times were romantic, plain PIV sex with someone who I just knew cared about me. 

Ya there's some fun to be had if you vary things a bit but try not to put crazy, wild sex on a pedestal as a measurement of how good your sex life is. 


I love this site https://www.weshouldtryit.com/

You fill it out and then she fills it out and whatever you both say yes or maybe to goes on the results. It's a great way to start a conversation and has lists from very vanilla to more kinky (though nothing is all that out of box that would scare anyone) 

Things that get a maybe can be talked about - what situation would you want to do that in? Or how can we tweak that to make it a yes?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Is there anything specific you are trying to add? If it's just a general wanting her to be more turned on, what specifically could she do that would show you that?


This thread will not go into specific things we might add. In this thread I am looking for ways to try and help her get turned on. She does not need to show me that she is. Her excitement is for her to enjoy. If she chooses to share that with me, I will love it.

For many years, she has actively tried to shut down the mental part of her sexual response and would only let it out under xyz conditions (religion played a role here). Now we have reached a point where she is comfortable and willing to enjoy things. I hope to be able to create situations where she has a response and maybe she can learn to let her mind open to these. Maybe she will not learn that. Her and I will not know that until after we try.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

leftfield said:


> This is a nice judgmental post. Not particularly helpful.




I’m sorry that I came off as judgmental. I believe you have the best of intentions. But if she is LD (or Low Priority), and she’s having sex with you 5-6 times on a Saturday or whatever, trying as best as she can to please you, maybe you should compromise with her.

If she desires sex, say, once a month and you want it every day, her desire isn’t a problem unless she feels its a problem. (I think that’s what Lila was hinting at when she asked whether your W ever asked you for help on this.)

If she’s crying because she’s doing everything in her power to please you sexually but she feels she’s still letting you down because she doesn’t have enough desire, I would back off. If she’s doing things for me that she doesn’t much desire, I’d try to find things that she would like that I might not desire doing and do them with her. Go to the quilting convention with her, if that’s her thing, even if you don’t desire it.

I guess I would say be GGG in the whole relationship, not just sex.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> I’m sorry that I came off as judgmental. I believe you have the best of intentions. But if she is LD (or Low Priority), and she’s having sex with you 5-6 times on a Saturday or whatever, trying as best as she can to please you, *maybe you should compromise with her*.
> 
> If she desires sex, say, once a month and you want it every day, *her desire isn’t a problem unless she feels its a problem*. (I think that’s what Lila was hinting at when she asked whether your W ever asked you for help on this.)
> 
> ...


I am not sure what the GGG stands for. We have complete relationship that is more than sex, but sex is the topic of this thread.

The assumptions you make in this post are astounding. I have bolded them for you. If you thought that these things had not been addressed, discussed, worked on and resolved then you should have asked. Making a post filled with assumptions like this does not come across well.

Lets not make to big a deal out of her crying. It was a learning experience for us, one were I learned to understand her better. Her perspective on the crying event is; she does not know why she cried on that day (must have been one of those days). She would point out that the topic has come up a number of times since then and no crying was involved.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I think that M2 is very rarely ‘turned on’ when we aren’t actually having sex. For certain that is less than one percent of the time. 

The things that take her from neutral to hot:
- wrestling 
- slow pace of foreplay 




Faithful Wife said:


> I guess it’s different for me because I’m just always switched on. It doesn’t come from an outside source. And then when I can actually have sex or it’s in the near future, then I let it fly. It is not something that happens to me it is something I allow to come out of me. So some of these discussions are foreign to me.
> 
> But it seems like I’ve read a lot of stories of women like your wife, who do enjoy sex and have it regularly, but don’t seem to see any reason to be turned on in between times. Seems like women like this usually are not going to change that aspect of themselves.
> 
> @Cletus and @alexm come to mind, but neither of them are around currently I don’t think.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@leftfield When you say you are wanting to turn her on, do you mean actual physical arousal?

Sometimes I’m not sure what men mean when they are describing what they would want. 

Or are you talking about a mental or emotional state you wish she was in?

For me, I’m switched on all the time but since I’m not in a relationship that’s just annoying so I actively ignore it so that it will not be on the forefront of my mind. When I’m in a relationship, I allow it to flow but I’m still not at a level of arousal. I’m just mentally and emotionally turned on and then arousal comes when I’m finally going to actually get sex. Letting arousal happen when sex isn’t going to happen is just frustrating.

When I’m mentally and emotionally turned on by a partner, it feels great. It’s like a type of mini high, and I feel happy and alive and flirty. 

Is that the state you are hoping for her to achieve?


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

leftfield said:


> I have similar thoughts that a lot of it is mental. She gets turned on when we are having sex. But I can't figure out how to turn her on, in terms of creating excitement for her.
> 
> Currently, We average about 3 times a week. She gets off every time. She will masturbate if I ask her to. Last time I asked she did not get off. She ran out of time.


3 times a week is not LD. Who in the hell cares whether Man X keeps his wife up for 3-4 hours a night giving her orgasm after orgasm? Is that the sexual pinnacle? What if there isn't a sexual pinnacle, there's just you and your wife? Despite what you say, it sounds like you're putting waaaay too much pressure on your wife to become the insatiable nympho you want her to be. I concur with CraigBesuden, you may be making her feel very guilty for not having enough desire. If she's ready and willing to have sex 3 times a week, accept it and stop being so preoccupied with it. I'm sure she feels it.

Also, does she _have_ to have an orgasm every time? And is it so bad if she doesn't? Sex can be good without orgasms can't it?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> @leftfield When you say you are wanting to turn her on, do you mean actual physical arousal?
> 
> Or are you talking about a mental or emotional state you wish she was in?
> 
> ...


Faithful wife, I would guess both are part of being/getting turned on.

I am 100% sure that my wife would not be physically aroused for the duration of romantic night out. But surely there are things that can build excitement and anticipation. Maybe even to the point of someone saying "I cant wait".

The scenarios I mentioned in my first post are focused on physical arousal, I think.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

leftfield said:


> Since I am asking for information on sexual pleasure, I think it would be good to give you a little background about my wife and I. I will try and keep it really short.
> 
> My wife and I both come from very religious background and we were both virgins on our wedding night. It happens that I am HD and very interested in sexual pleasure. My wife could be called LD, but I think low priority (LP) would be a better description of her. In the nearly 19 years we have been married we have gone through almost every issue a HD and a LD person can. The way I describe it now is: we had a lot to learn and we are getting there.
> 
> ...


First things first...

1. Is she attracted to you at all? There needs to be some basic, raw, physical attraction there. When I was single, I'd test that by just being upfront and not messing around. If you're married, you have a bigger problem, because she'll likely want to spare your feelings. So search your thoughts here... is she actually into you?

2. Is she open to being sexual? Again, when single, I'd just go for it and see what happened. If she wasn't open, she wasn't open, and I'd either try to create a situation where she'd be more open (progress the relationship), or I'd just move on. Now that you're married, you don't have the later option, so again search your thoughts and talk to her... because she may not be open at all for reasons that have nothing to do with you.

3. What do YOU want from sex? Have you thought about it? Have you thought about what drives you and why? What you want from your relationship with sex? Deepening and maturing your thoughts about yourself sexually can be helpful.

4. Disconnect any thoughts of success or failure from your sex life. Make her pleasure only as important and she does. Pressure sucks the life out of sex, so take it out of the occasion. Instead, make it playful and fun - and this starts with hearing a "no" with a smile on your face, and an immediate disengagement of pressure. But without any passive-aggressive BS about it like withdrawing affection or sulking. But it's OK to move onto the next most fun thing in your day.

5. Plan, plan, plan. If you want her to wear something, you better have it ready if she says yes. If you want to bring a toy into the session, you better have that ready. Go back to #3... what do you want? What are you going to do if she says yes to it? Or are you going to put the work back on her for it - that I do not advise.

6. Do stupid stuff. Funny stuff. Laugh, joke, don't take yourself seriously at all. It's surprising what a woman will say "yes" to while laughing that she'd say "no" to otherwise. This isn't a rational situation. It's all contextual, all emotional, all situational. It also shows your vulnerable side if you put yourself out there in a silly way - like wearing a stupid fireman costume to bed or something.

7. Make sex non-consequential. Not just about saying "no" but especially saying "yes." As in, if we try it and she doesn't like it, we'll immediately switch to something else or stop, no questions asked and no attempt to talk her into it. And if we try it and she never wants to do it again, it's off the table, no questions asked.

8. Do you actually know her sexually? Are you sure? Do you know what her deepest darkest fantasies are? Her secrets? Has she let you in this way? She gets to own her "secret garden" but it's your job to try to get an invitation. And if you do, you better pay attention and not judge. If she shares something... well... you better consider how you can make that real if she wants or incorporate the fantasy otherwise if she's open to it.

9. How's your hygiene? Fitness? Hair? Clothes? How's the bedroom? Warm, inviting? Softly lit? Music available she likes? How's your schedule? When is she most open to sex, but not too exhausted for it? Don't ask her when she's almost guaranteed to say no. Do you understand her cycle and the changes it brings? How's your communication in general? When's the last time you brought her home something for no reason? Gone on exciting date nights? Flirt with her throughout the day?

Those are some thoughts off the top of my head.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

I always hated when guys tried too hard. I was always turned on more when the guy didn't really seem to care. I don't really mean didn't care but that he just didn't seem to be trying at all.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

leftfield said:


> @Faithfaul wife, I would guess both are part of being/getting turned on.
> 
> I am 100% sure that my wife would not be physically aroused for the duration of romantic night out. But surely there are things that can build excitement and anticipation. Maybe even to the point of someone saying "I cant wait".
> 
> The scenarios I mentioned in my first post are focused on physical arousal, I think.


Yes, they are related and sometimes overlap. But if the focus is on physical arousal it’s far more difficult I believe. For me it’s like, I feel warm and fuzzy about him for some period of time such as on a date. If he was trying to physically arouse me at the same time it would just be uncomfortable, not enjoyable. 

But if he is just flirting and (non sexually) touching me and we know sex will happen soon, I do end up somewhat physically aroused by the end of the night. That could be lost quickly though, it depends on what happens next.

I’m definitely going to say “I can’t wait!” because that’s something I really feel. But I’m not sure if other women who are not HD would ever say something like this. Or even ones who have past hangs ups or religious issues as you described. I’m not sure they ever “can’t wait”? But I could be wrong, I’m just saying there is a certain baseline people have and it doesn’t change that much this far into a long relationship.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JustTheWife said:


> I always hated when guys tried too hard. I was always turned on more when the guy didn't really seem to care. I don't really mean didn't care but that he just didn't seem to be trying at all.


Bingo. No pressure, no consequence, come from a place of safety and yet being bold.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Marduk said:


> Bingo. No pressure, no consequence, come from a place of safety and yet being bold.


What stands out most was one time when a guy said that he was going to "get me so excited". He tried so hard by eating me out like that was some kind of amazing gift. Tried his best. Too late I was already so turned off by his trying far too hard. I let him have sex with me because i was stupid like that. But yuck. Just yuck.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JustTheWife said:


> What stands out most was one time when a guy said that he was going to "get me so excited". He tried so hard by eating me out like that was some kind of amazing gift. Tried his best. Too late I was already so turned off by his trying far too hard. I let him have sex with me because i was stupid like that. But yuck. Just yuck.


Ugh.

Far better, I think, to just show your excitement. I've always pretty much been like a kid on Christmas morning if someone let me do something. Still am, I guess.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Soft voice, soft eyes, soft touch.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

This is kind a loaded question because every woman is different. What turns one woman on may turn off another.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

M2 and I are highly connected, playful, bantering. I really don’t try to do things to directly turn her on. 

But that’s because her being turned on isn’t a precursor to sex for us. When someone loves your company, your touch and sense of humor - sex just happens.





Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, they are related and sometimes overlap. But if the focus is on physical arousal it’s far more difficult I believe. For me it’s like, I feel warm and fuzzy about him for some period of time such as on a date. If he was trying to physically arouse me at the same time it would just be uncomfortable, not enjoyable.
> 
> But if he is just flirting and (non sexually) touching me and we know sex will happen soon, I do end up somewhat physically aroused by the end of the night. That could be lost quickly though, it depends on what happens next.
> 
> I’m definitely going to say “I can’t wait!” because that’s something I really feel. But I’m not sure if other women who are not HD would ever say something like this. Or even ones who have past hangs ups or religious issues as you described. I’m not sure they ever “can’t wait”? But I could be wrong, I’m just saying there is a certain baseline people have and it doesn’t change that much this far into a long relationship.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Soft voice, soft eyes, soft touch.


Sometimes yes. Probably most times yes.

Sometimes it's more of a "crush your enemies, and see them driven before you" kind of approach. Kind of the opposite of that. Not often. But sometimes. If she's open to it. Not all women are, and even those that are, aren't open to it all the time. In my experience.

But you don't know if you don't throw a little of that into the mix, with a heavy dose of conversations before hand about consent.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Marduk said:


> Sometimes yes. Probably most times yes.
> 
> Sometimes it's more of a "crush your enemies, and see them driven before you" kind of approach. Kind of the opposite of that. Not often. But sometimes. If she's open to it. Not all women are, and even those that are, aren't open to it all the time. In my experience.
> 
> But you don't know if you don't throw a little of that into the mix, with a heavy dose of conversations before hand about consent.


Hahaha! She's all for that and often but the soft manner is 100% successful with her and many other ladies too.:grin2:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The best times with a woman, for me, always seem to happen when I start making love to her long before I see her. There is something to be said about sending her a text the morning of the date and telling her how excited you are to be seeing her that night... how great you feel when you're around her and how remarkable she is. Usually for me it is the truth, because I'm not a recreational dater. I don't date women that I have not had time to get to know and become comfortable with. I don't date women who are greedy, stupid, self-centered, insincere or fake. I simply don't waste my time. I don't care how hot a woman is. A pig with lipstick and eye liner is still a pig, and I'm not talking about looks. 

Simple words to a woman go a long way I think towards setting a mood. "Free your mind and your ass will follow..." George Clinton spoke those wise words, and I think they have extra meaning when it comes to making a woman feel like you really desire her. I do my best to try to make love to a woman's mind, long before I ever try to kiss her or seduce her. Sometimes I fail miserably. Sometimes I'm so off the mark it's pathetic. But sometimes, if the chemistry is there, I can find the words that make her feel like I find her fascinating, then it just kinda flows along. 

Maybe I'm full of beans, but I think that is the method that works best for me, because it keeps me honest and I don't go away from the experience feeling like I was trying to scam her. If she digs me she digs me, and if she doesn't then no harm no foul.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

JustTheWife said:


> I always hated when guys tried too hard. I was always turned on more when the guy didn't really seem to care. *I don't really mean didn't care but that he just didn't seem to be trying at all.*


^^^This!!!!

I'm exactly like this that's why I asked the questions I asked. Asking me what turns me on feels forced and unnatural. I would rather my guy focus on creating a safe environment where I can tell him what I want WHEN I am ready to tell him. 

But again, this just goes to show how very different we all are.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Men are fixers by nature. We think, “she doesn’t seem to be into to this as much as me... how can I fix that?” So our instinct is to ask. Except this has the opposite effect. In my experience, a woman usually has no problem telling you what turns them off. Asking is using a turn-off.

Another problem is guys watch porn and then wonder why their partner doesn’t get as revved up over sex on short notice. In porn... the women are extremely forward, crave sex as much as men all the time, and focused on getting the guy off. They don’t have to shut their brains off from kids, chores, insecurities, etc. The percentage of women who actually want sex like a porn star are an extremely small percentage of the population. 

A lot of women don’t aspire to act like porn stars because they see it for what it is. It also plays to a man’s need to feel like a man without actually being a man. 

BL - you’re wife’s drive and attitude towards sex is what it is. She’s not broken. Avoid things you know are turn-offs and just be confident. You seem to have it pretty good. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

leftfield said:


> I have similar thoughts that a lot of it is mental. She gets turned on when we are having sex. But I can't figure out how to turn her on, in terms of creating excitement for her.
> 
> Currently, We average about 3 times a week. She gets off every time. She will masturbate if I ask her to. Last time I asked she did not get off. * She ran out of time.*


 What does it mean for her to run out of time? What was timing what?


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> ^^^This!!!!
> 
> I'm exactly like this that's why I asked the questions I asked. Asking me what turns me on feels forced and unnatural. I would rather my guy focus on creating a safe environment where I can tell him what I want WHEN I am ready to tell him.
> 
> But again, this just goes to show how very different we all are.


Totally. Yes, that's another one - asking me what I want! No way. Please don't. Just do what you want and if it's done right and i'm turned on, it will be what i want. I knwo people are going to think that i mean not to care about making her feel good. That's not at all what i mean. If he's good, he will want to do things that will make me feel good but the point is that he's in charge. Anyway that's what i like, others might hate to even read this. not sure.

But you're absolutely right that everyone is different and I guess it can be like a minefield when you need to respect people's boundaries and make you you have consent. I like more "forward" guys. Take charge types. Confident types. not guys who act surprised and excited that you're letting them do stuff (to another point on this thread).


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

PreRaph said:


> 3 times a week is not LD. Who in the hell cares whether Man X keeps his wife up for 3-4 hours a night giving her orgasm after orgasm? Is that the sexual pinnacle? What if there isn't a sexual pinnacle, there's just you and your wife?  Despite what you say, it sounds like you're putting waaaay too much pressure on your wife to become the insatiable nympho you want her to be. I concur with CraigBesuden, you may be making her feel very guilty for not having enough desire. If she's ready and willing to have sex 3 times a week, accept it and stop being so preoccupied with it. I'm sure she feels it.
> 
> Also, does she _have_ to have an orgasm every time? And is it so bad if she doesn't? Sex can be good without orgasms can't it?


I know you mean well and are showing concern for my wife. I had my wife read your comment and the referenced comments as well. I have underlined everything that she divergent perspective with.

If you have other concerns you would like me to share with me wife, let me know.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I always hated when guys tried too hard. I was always turned on more when the guy didn't really seem to care. I don't really mean didn't care but that he just didn't seem to be trying at all.


This seems to be a something that everyone agrees on. I am not there yet, but I can keep getting better.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> What does it mean for her to run out of time? What was timing what?


She needed to get up and get the kids to school. She ran out of time to seek sexual pleasure that morning.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Lila said:


> Asking me what turns me on feels forced and unnatural. I would rather my guy focus on creating a safe environment where I can tell him what I want WHEN I am ready to tell him.


Great point. I understand this and I never ask for her input during an experience. The talking always happens during our daily conversations. Maybe that is not good either, but I want to understand my wife and create good experiences for us.

I would also like to thank everyone else who has provided input. I have read each comment and have found them to be very informative. Many great comments that will help. I am not going to reply to everyone of them, but I think I have at least addressed the questions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

leftfield said:


> Great point. I understand this and I never ask for her input during an experience. The talking always happens during our daily conversations. Maybe that is not good either, but I want to understand my wife and create good experiences for us.
> 
> I would also like to thank everyone else who has provided input. I have read each comment and have found them to be very informative. Many great comments that will help. I am not going to reply to everyone of them, but I think I have at least addressed the questions.



My wife and I have two separate categories of conversations about sex. 

Category 1 is when we’re not having sex. This is when you discuss matters of consent, schedules, plans, that kind of stuff. 

Category 2 is “sex talk.” This is what we say during sex that can be anything. It’s throwaway. It usually drifts into fantasy land, and gives us both insights into that stuff. But it’s usually stuff that is never going to happen but is fun to say in the moment. 

They’re both important, but I’ve learned a lot more from what drives her in the second conversations than the first. Even if lots of those things are never going to happen. 

But it is funny how many of them have actually happened once you’ve been talking about it for years in a safe place where it never has to happen.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

leftfield said:


> She needed to get up and get the kids to school. She ran out of time to seek sexual pleasure that morning.


Who ran out of time to "seek pleasure." You, or her? Was she actually in a mood to "seek pleasure" or is there an assumption that, since she can orgasm, she must be (seeking pleasure that she ran out of time for)? My wife very, very, very rarely "seeks pleasure" even though she knows she can get there via oral.

It can be very puzzling for a guy, trying to make sure his wife is happy, that if an orgasm is such a great thing for her when they happen, that obviously, the goal should be to get her to orgasm as often as possible. I mean, why wouldn't she WANT to orgasm if it feels so good? We think this even when, for some of us (men), sex is more tied up into emotion than just a physical thing.

Some people have trouble connecting pleasure with long-term feeling good about things. It can be pleasurable at the moment, but then forgotten about. The moment, for that person, is all that matters. You have to own that moment with her, and that's not easy to do.

Last night, my wife was not in that moment. A lot of tummy distress (very common for her). I figured no problem, sex is off the table, got to work massaging her feet, her back, and eventually traced around to her front. Very slowly. I took a lot of time and just occasionally let a hand wander a bit. Then, my tongue. Just the lightest touch, followed by several seconds until another. I know my wife's rhythm by now. Go too fast if she's not really in the mood and she feels like it's forced. Go slowly enough with pauses and it becomes interesting. I didn't worry about not getting an immediate response. The key, really, was the time in between. Then you feel a little bit of tensing in the leg. Keep the pauses intact. And then it happens. She moves in anticipation of the next very slow drag of the tongue over the now-enlarging target.

No discussion. Just a very fine sensitivity to the pulse of her body. It is so important not to rush, and so tempting to do so, because the last thing in the world you want to do is overdo it and she loses interest because it doesn't happen fast enough. Even after all these years, the toughest thing is to not let things get out of hand too quickly and go too fast. She has a limited amount of patience and at some point will think it's not going to happen if you let it go too long. Your only feedback is what you feel, not what you hear. And besides, you're buried down there and can't talk anyway, and she might not be into verbal stuff at that time.

So last night, perhaps because there was an assumption that no way could she orgasm because of her stomach issue, she came four times. The first was tongue alone. The second had an added finger gently circling her vagina (not her clitoris). The third was g-spot. The fourth was a bit more forceful, "thrusting" against the back wall while licking, which I think, is hitting a good spot back there plus providing some downward pressure on the clitoris while licking and lightly sucking up against it.

She had an amazing time. She told me that she put herself into a frame of mind that said, it's OK for her to orgasm. That she's ready for it. This is new for her. It's likely a benefit of the MC, who's been telling her that she needs to let go and allow herself to enjoy sex.

For perspective, my wife has always been capable of multiple orgasms, and that's actually been a problem at times because she'll feel that it's not the greatest thing in the world if she only has one. But "just" one is often the case, so she actually comes into the game with a feeling that she's going to fail her own expectations. 

It's... complicated.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ugh. Reading that last post by casual observer and many others here, I feel bad for you guys who have wives that refuse to communicate, where you try this that and the other and not only does it not work, she won’t even tell you why. Having never in my life needed anyone I’m in a relationship with to jump through hoops simply to have sex with me, it’s so foreign to me. I just love sex. That doesn’t mean I don’t need him to pay attention and do what I like and need, but I also have no problem discussing it. With a partner who doesn’t like sex enough to make sure they can at least discuss what they want and need, I can’t imagine the frustration involved. I would never ever last in a relationship like this. I don’t know how you guys do it, it would make me run for the hills and be celibate before I would jump through so many hoops. 

I admire you for keeping your commitment to her, but it still makes me just cringe to read about it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ugh. Reading that last post by casual observer and many others here, I feel bad for you guys who have wives that refuse to communicate, where you try this that and the other and not only does it not work, she won’t even tell you why. Having never in my life needed anyone I’m in a relationship with to jump through hoops simply to have sex with me, it’s so foreign to me. I just love sex. That doesn’t mean I don’t need him to pay attention and do what I like and need, but I also have no problem discussing it. With a partner who doesn’t like sex enough to make sure they can at least discuss what they want and need, I can’t imagine the frustration involved. I would never ever last in a relationship like this. I don’t know how you guys do it, it would make me run for the hills and be celibate before I would jump through so many hoops.
> 
> 
> 
> I admire you for keeping your commitment to her, but it still makes me just cringe to read about it.



The vast majority of women that I’ve known are uncomfortable discussing sex while not having sex. A few exceptions, but they are few. 

And it seems like the more you go into an LTR and the stakes are higher, the less conversation can happen for some people, because the emotional stakes are higher. 

I think context matters a lot. As does trust and a lack of pressure.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I also think it’s important not to chase her orgasms. They are kind of her thing. Yours are yours. 

She can help you with yours if you want, and you can help her with hers if she wants. But it’s not a goal necessarily. 

Be open to it, but don’t push it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Marduk said:


> The vast majority of women that I’ve known are uncomfortable discussing sex while not having sex. A few exceptions, but they are few.
> 
> And it seems like the more you go into an LTR and the stakes are higher, the less conversation can happen for some people, because the emotional stakes are higher.
> 
> I think context matters a lot. As does trust and a lack of pressure.


I just think there are some people who are more sexual than others, men and women, and those also tend to be more self aware and communicative. 

If you fall in love with someone who is not as sexual as you are, there will be this inevitable mismatch.

Trust me that there are guys who are not that sexual, who will not communicate, and who can barely even open their eyes during sex. It’s how sexual you are, not what gender you are, that makes this difference.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> I just think there are some people who are more sexual than others, men and women, and those also tend to be more self aware and communicative.
> 
> If you fall in love with someone who is not as sexual as you are, there will be this inevitable mismatch.
> 
> Trust me that there are guys who are not that sexual, who will not communicate, and who can barely even open their eyes during sex. It’s how sexual you are, not what gender you are, that makes this difference.



Mmm... I agree but it’s more nuanced in my experience. 

Like I remember dating girls that were highly sexual - until the relationship got more serious. And then it was different because what we did had higher consequences. 

I 100% agree some dudes aren’t very sexual. I’ve been the rebound guy more than once from some of those relationships. Everybody’s different.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Mmm... I agree but it’s more nuanced in my experience.
> 
> Like I remember dating girls that were highly sexual - until the relationship got more serious. And then it was different because what we did had higher consequences.
> 
> I 100% agree some dudes aren’t very sexual. I’ve been the rebound guy more than once from some of those relationships. Everybody’s different.


Some guys are good at talking and being experimental in the beginning, yet quickly revert to their actual less sexual self once in a relationship.

NRE affects men, too.

I think NRE is the main culprit because it makes people act in ways that they will only act in the beginning.


People who are highly sexual don’t burn out after the NRE does. Unfortunately, you won’t know this until you are actually down the road with them for quite a while and by then if you have made a commitment you aren’t willing to break, you are stuck with it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Some guys are good at talking and being experimental in the beginning, yet quickly revert to their actual less sexual self once in a relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree, but I also think that people get caught up in roles - “a wife wouldn’t do that” or age - “I’m not 20 anymore, stop acting like I am,” are things I’ve heard. 

But I think there’s a component too of being expected to continue something, and not wanting that to be the case. Like trying stuff out and then not being expected to do it often again for the next 20 years. 

Or even “now that I love you, I don’t want you to think less of me.” I’ve heard that, too.

Me, I get more sexual the longer I’m with someone. But I’m sure that’s not common.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Me, I get more sexual the longer I’m with someone. But I’m sure that’s not common.


It’s common for people who are truly highly sexual. Not sure how many of us there are but my estimate based on experience is maybe 20% of the population.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ugh. Reading that last post by casual observer and many others here, I feel bad for you guys who have wives that refuse to communicate, where you try this that and the other and not only does it not work, she won’t even tell you why. Having never in my life needed anyone I’m in a relationship with to jump through hoops simply to have sex with me, it’s so foreign to me. I just love sex. That doesn’t mean I don’t need him to pay attention and do what I like and need, but I also have no problem discussing it. With a partner who doesn’t like sex enough to make sure they can at least discuss what they want and need, I can’t imagine the frustration involved. I would never ever last in a relationship like this. I don’t know how you guys do it, it would make me run for the hills and be celibate before I would jump through so many hoops.
> 
> I admire you for keeping your commitment to her, but it still makes me just cringe to read about it.


Like I said, it's complicated, and it's just not possible to turn the wife someone has into the wife someone wants. I was going to qualify that, but really shouldn't. She has to want to become that person, and if the premise starts with her having to want to become the person you want her to be... well, maybe you'll get a short-term feeling that things are going well, but long-term that same person as before is lurking under the surface, building resentment and become ever-more-convinced that you hare the problem, not here. And you may be.

And yet, we still try. I still try. And reading things like "I just love sex" from an admired TAM poster just makes things worse. We want that wife!!! Who wouldn't? But that's not the person we married.

Maybe we have to turn the clock back and figure out who that person we married was, then. What it was we found attractive about, fell in love with. And then figure out what we (speaking for men) did, instead of what she did, that changed all that. It could be that you were deceived by her, or it could be that she feels that way about you.

The interesting thing I realized from reading about my wife's life before she met me was that she was pretty much the same person then, as now. There are outward things that you can look at and say wow, she's changed her thinking about this or that, but when you look closer, it's the same person. The type of logic used to get from here to there, that hasn't changed.

There are some couples able to adapt to each other so what's not known but discovered is of intellectual consequence but not much more. Might even be fun. But there are many others where all it takes is one adaptive person, the other not, and the lack of disclosure about the past, and not just "disclosure" which sound like some pivotal missing thing but really truly knowing who that other person is, before marriage... that lack of that can and most likely will lead to some conflict down the road. 

Here on TAM, we have the full spectrum of adaptive and not. And we somehow expect one type of person to understand the lessons or situation that the other type is presenting. Sometimes the best we can do is disagree but hold respect for the other person's position. Sometimes we see something that explains something about our partner that has been elusive and bothersome. And sometimes we'll just never, ever connect to that other type of person, speaking of people on TAM. If it's that tough for us on TAM, how tough must it be for someone we're married to?

A very long way of saying that most of us may not truly know the person we're planning to be married to, and the fact that you may be adaptive and not bothered by things that might come up, doesn't mean the other person won't be. And you just might not know what type of person the other is, until a situation comes up. But the adaptive person isn't looking for that situation to come up. See where I'm going with this? Good, because I'm confused!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> And yet, we still try. I still try. And reading things like "I just love sex" from an admired TAM poster just makes things worse. We want that wife!!! Who wouldn't? But that's not the person we married.


I get that and it makes me feel bad that stating my truth just makes you feel worse. But I do it because I want men at TAM to realize that there ARE women like me. I don’t want men to think that most or all women are non sexual. I want you to realize that you are in the situation you are in because you are with the specific woman you are with and that you do have other options if you end up leaving.

And I’m not encouraging you or anyone to leave. I just hope that if you are ever in the position to start over with someone else, you are aware that women like me are out here and we aren’t unicorns. I think when men start believing that all women are non sexual or less sexual they may stay put even if they are completely unhappy, because they assume if they leave it will just be more of the same with any woman they meet.

I’m representing highly sexual women and I think it’s important to do so. There are a dozen or more other highly sexual women at TAM I can think of off the top of my head. We exist and yes, we just love sex. 

I’m still very empathetic to your situation and I also don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with you or your wife. You are just a mismatch.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I get that and it makes me feel bad that stating my truth just makes you feel worse. But I do it because I want men at TAM to realize that there ARE women like me. I don’t want men to think that most or all women are non sexual. I want you to realize that you are in the situation you are in because you are with the specific woman you are with and that you do have other options if you end up leaving.
> 
> And I’m not encouraging you or anyone to leave. I just hope that if you are ever in the position to start over with someone else, you are aware that women like me are out here and we aren’t unicorns. I think when men start believing that all women are non sexual or less sexual they may stay put even if they are completely unhappy, because they assume if they leave it will just be more of the same with any woman they meet.
> 
> ...


The issue then becomes what should be done about a "mismatch." The lens of an outsider looking at that "mismatch" will try hard to find something they can relate to, which might cause perceptive exaggeration of the consequences of that mismatch. To the person involved in the mismatch, he or she may have put coping mechanisms in place to make sure the problems don't rise to the level of becoming more important than all the good things in the marriage. The mismatched couple may have something that can work for the long term, not as good as it could be, but how do we know it might not be better than an LD/LD or HD/HD couple in which there are serious issues elsewhere? Our focus here on the LD/HD issues might blind us to the rest of life.

Now, the above paragraph is purely hypothetical because it does NOT describe me in the least. I feel absolutely positively that intimacy through sex is essential in my relationship, a requirement, something that, if not present, threatens to drown everything else. It's a core principle, not a checkbox to be ticked off.

So to @leftfield, what is your thinking when you read stuff like this? Is there anything that has the ring of truth to it?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> I get that and it makes me feel bad that stating my truth just makes you feel worse. But I do it because I want men at TAM to realize that there ARE women like me. I don’t want men to think that most or all women are non sexual. I want you to realize that you are in the situation you are in because you are with the specific woman you are with and that you do have other options if you end up leaving.
> 
> And I’m not encouraging you or anyone to leave. I just hope that if you are ever in the position to start over with someone else, you are aware that women like me are out here and we aren’t unicorns. I think when men start believing that all women are non sexual or less sexual they may stay put even if they are completely unhappy, because they assume if they leave it will just be more of the same with any woman they meet.
> 
> ...



I think that they both need to disconnect their own sexuality from each other, and the roles they’ve crafted for themselves and each other.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s common for people who are truly highly sexual. Not sure how many of us there are but my estimate based on experience is maybe 20% of the population.




Interesting. 

This may imply that those that chase NRE - swingers, open marriages, and people that just go for flings may not in fact be highly sexual. They’re chasing a high that they can’t provide for themselves, maybe. 

I’m speculating of course.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Marduk said:


> Interesting.
> 
> This may imply that those that chase NRE - swingers, open marriages, and people that just go for flings may not in fact be highly sexual. They’re chasing a high that they can’t provide for themselves, maybe.
> 
> I’m speculating of course.


I have definitely met some swingers who can only get revved about NRE and can’t sustain any long term sexual relationship at the same level.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I realize I'm different than most because for most of my life I took care of myself.

One reason I stayed a bachelor, because I saw what other guys went through with their gfs or wives.
Man, is sex really worth jumping through a thousand hoops and pondering the million nuances of feminine 
Desire, while trying everything under the sun, and still being frustrated? I didn't think so, and I still dont.

Don't get me wrong; I do admire and respect husbands that work at it so hard and refuse to give up on their love life.
And I respect that these guys take their vows seriously and will not leave only for some degree of sexual frustration.
But these boards are just choked full of stories of people doing everything they can for years with little or no results.

It's just not worth it to me. I'd rather be celibate. Really. And as a matter of fact, I was not so long ago in a relationship with a frigid woman, and after much discussion and frustration, I simply said to myself, 'ok this ship has sailed'. And never approached her for sex again. Ever.

I'm glad I waited and found a wife that loves sex. I got lucky, but I realize that a lot of it is luck finding a woman that truly likes sex long term.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> I'm glad I waited and found a wife that loves sex. I got lucky, but I realize that a lot of it is luck finding a woman that truly likes sex long term.


So you just hit on the central theme. How do you know that the person you're looking at for an LTR, who enjoys sex similar to yourself, will still feel that way years down the road? What do you look for ahead of time? How can you forecast the future?

I think there's a basic failure in not giving sex enough importance early in a relationship, even though, at the time, it might seem like 90% of the relationship. What is the connection through sex? If that connection is based entirely on youthful lust/horniness, or even not-so-youthful same, you might be in more trouble than the couple that isn't, because assumptions will be made about compatibility that might not really be the case.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Sorry didn't slog through the whole thread.,. But after reading the first several. I thought I'd mention responsive desire. There are plenty of women that don't get aroused easily and the actual beginning of sex/hands on foreplay is when they get turned on. Then that lasts differing amounts of time for me a good orgasm means I'm horny for about 1.5 days after.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> So you just hit on the central theme. How do you know that the person you're looking at for an LTR, who enjoys sex similar to yourself, will still feel that way years down the road? What do you look for ahead of time? How can you forecast the future?
> 
> I think there's a basic failure in not giving sex enough importance early in a relationship, even though, at the time, it might seem like 90% of the relationship. What is the connection through sex? If that connection is based entirely on youthful lust/horniness, or even not-so-youthful same, you might be in more trouble than the couple that isn't, because assumptions will be made about compatibility that might not really be the case.


I don't think there is a foolproof formula. You are absolutely right though, there needs to be some dispassionate vetting regarding your potential mate: is he/she a sexual creature?
Does he/she crave, want sex? Is his/her character stable? That is to say, is he/she extremely moody, or is their personality consistent? The more stable and consistent the personality I think is an indication down the road that that person will be the same 5, 10, 15 years down the road.

it's hard to be dispassionate when considering a life partner, and a lot of it is just plain emotional, but i think it pays off in the long run to be as rational as we can in vetting our partners.

Even then, it's somewhat of a gamble, but maybe less so?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> The issue then becomes what should be done about a "mismatch." The lens of an outsider looking at that "mismatch" will try hard to find something they can relate to, which might cause perceptive exaggeration of the consequences of that mismatch. To the person involved in the mismatch, he or she may have put coping mechanisms in place to make sure the problems don't rise to the level of becoming more important than all the good things in the marriage. The mismatched couple may have something that can work for the long term, not as good as it could be, but how do we know it might not be better than an LD/LD or HD/HD couple in which there are serious issues elsewhere? Our focus here on the LD/HD issues might blind us to the rest of life.
> 
> Now, the above paragraph is purely hypothetical because it does NOT describe me in the least. I feel absolutely positively that intimacy through sex is essential in my relationship, a requirement, something that, if not present, threatens to drown everything else. It's a core principle, not a checkbox to be ticked off.
> 
> So to @leftfield, what is your thinking when you read stuff like this? Is there anything that has the ring of truth to it?


My thoughts about a mismatch of desire; if two people have committed to marriage, they need to try and work on it. *Both* people need to work on it, not just one. It is common for the LD partner to tell the HD partner to 'deal with it'. Easy for them to say.

Ultimately, each person needs to decide for themselves what they are willing to live with. If they can cope with it and find a happy relationship around that mismatch, then nobody needs to tell them differently. If the mismatch is just to big a hurdle for them, then they should get out so both partners can move on and build their lives. I am an big believer in honesty. Each person needs to be honest with themselves and with their partner.

Based on some of the comments that have been made, I should probably make it clear that my wife and I have figured out what works for us. It took us about 13 years, but we do not struggle with a mismatch in desire at this time. We have found a place that is really good for both of us and we are just enjoying our experiences together (thus the existence of this thread). I know many people struggle with a mismatch in desire for much longer, sometimes their entire lives. My heart aches for them. They are stronger than me. I could not do it.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> So last night, perhaps because there was an assumption that no way could she orgasm because of her stomach issue, she came four times. The first was tongue alone. The second had an added finger gently circling her vagina (not her clitoris). The third was g-spot. The fourth was a bit more forceful, "thrusting" against the back wall while licking, which I think, is hitting a good spot back there plus providing some downward pressure on the clitoris while licking and lightly sucking up against it.
> 
> She had an amazing time. She told me that she put herself into a frame of mind that said, it's OK for her to orgasm. That she's ready for it. This is new for her. It's likely a benefit of the MC, who's been telling her that she needs to let go and allow herself to enjoy sex.


 @Casual Observer

I hope you enjoyed it too. I also hope this is one step toward a better future for you and your wife.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Sorry didn't slog through the whole thread.,. But after reading the first several. I thought I'd mention responsive desire. There are plenty of women that don't get aroused easily and the actual beginning of sex/hands on foreplay is when they get turned on. Then that lasts differing amounts of time *for me a good orgasm means I'm horny for about 1.5 days after*.
> Can my wife barrow your experience 2 or 3 times. So we can know what that is like. :wink2:



I know about responsive desire. I am not sure what I think about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I 100% agree with this. And in the spirit of symmetry, perhaps it is helpful to recognize that our life partners also wish we had a slightly different ‘trait package’. 

So perhaps I will begin with a couple observations that effect the bedroom. 

1. For M2 - with her entirely responsive desire: Sex is a celebration of being together. Of dropping a load of oxytocin into her bloodstream because she trusts and is happy with me.
2. I’m excessively patterned. This is not a positive quality. That said, I have created a little internal (wetware) app called - Variability and I run it regularly. M2 LOVES variability. I think variability turns M2 on more than almost anything. 
3. I have responsive adventurousness - so anything M2 suggests/requests that we try I’m game.
4. Convergence: there were a few things each of us brought into the marriage that the other person liked/admired. M2 taught me to be fully present and playful. I helped her with what I consider to be: intermediate level social engineering. 

Last week was unusually high in variability as we were on vacation:
1. Canyoning (zip lining, crossing a sort of rope bridge thing, rappelling down a waterfall, rappelling down from a platform attached to a tree, climbing ladders made of steel cables). 
2. Catamaran trip to look for Hump back whales and porpoises 
3. Sea kayaking in a tandem - with me mostly and happily being 80% of the motoring force

This produced a strong - sexual response. 



Casual Observer said:


> Like I said, it's complicated, and it's just not possible to turn the wife someone has into the wife someone wants. I was going to qualify that, but really shouldn't. She has to want to become that person, and if the premise starts with her having to want to become the person you want her to be... well, maybe you'll get a short-term feeling that things are going well, but long-term that same person as before is lurking under the surface, building resentment and become ever-more-convinced that you hare the problem, not here. And you may be.
> 
> And yet, we still try. I still try. And reading things like "I just love sex" from an admired TAM poster just makes things worse. We want that wife!!! Who wouldn't? But that's not the person we married.
> 
> ...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Originally Posted by Casual Observer
So last night, perhaps because there was an assumption that no way could she orgasm because of her stomach issue, she came four times. The first was tongue alone. The second had an added finger gently circling her vagina (not her clitoris). The third was g-spot. The fourth was a bit more forceful, "thrusting" against the back wall while licking, which I think, is hitting a good spot back there plus providing some downward pressure on the clitoris while licking and lightly sucking up against it.

She had an amazing time. She told me that she put herself into a frame of mind that said, it's OK for her to orgasm. That she's ready for it. This is new for her. It's likely a benefit of the MC, who's been telling her that she needs to let go and allow herself to enjoy sex.​


leftfield said:


> @Casual Observer
> 
> I hope you enjoyed it too. I also hope this is one step toward a better future for you and your wife.


I enjoy my wife's orgasm(s) more than my own, because it's something we're both actively involved in. I will also admit to a fair amount of jealousy; for me, the orgasm is relatively short, and my wife has never been into extended periods of PIV sex (I'm open to the idea that it would be different if she could orgasm that way, of course). For her, they can go on for an extended period of time. I cannot imagine what a 2 minute orgasm would be like, or several shorter ones linked together. But it is a wonderful thing that I can bring this to her.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

leftfield said:


> I know about responsive desire. I am not sure what I think about it.




Not sure what you think about it. In previous threads some people (men) have implied it doesn't exist or means the woman doesn't like/desire the man.

Let me assure you it exists, I'm responsive desire. And I adore my husband and love having sex with him. He also meets my needs for me to sexually desire him. I think it's a brain thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

You are having frequent sex. My question is why do you think she is not turned on?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Most women have responsive desire. Some women don’t. You can’t change who she is and how she feels. You can’t change someone who is responsive only to be “active desire”. 

I have active desire. It’s who I am. And it honestly doesn’t matter what my man does because when I’m in the mood I’m in the mood. Probably like most men.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Not sure what you think about it. In previous threads some people (men) have implied it doesn't exist or means the woman doesn't like/desire the man.
> 
> Let me assure you it exists, I'm responsive desire. And I adore my husband and love having sex with him. He also meets my needs for me to sexually desire him. I think it's a brain thing.


Thank you for sharing that. My wife responds to my interest and excitement. I respond to her interest and excitement. The idea that one partner will respond to the other makes sense.

Some 'experts' (people who publish books) suggest that for most women responsive desire is their natural form of desire. Observing women's actions indicates that there is more to it.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> You are having frequent sex. My question is why do you think she is not turned on?


Because she says she is not. She only gets turned on during the action, there is basically no build up or anticipation for her. 

This weekend I was able to produce some response from her many hours before the action. She does appear to have a normal sexual response. 



Girl_power said:


> You can’t change who she is and how she feels. You can’t change someone who is responsive only to be “active desire”.


I am not trying to change her. Any change that happens would be in me. I might create an experience were she is enjoying it, she is comfortable and has she a sexual response. That would be awesome. I might create an experience where she is enjoying it, she is comfortable and she has no sexual response. Which is great too.

My reason for starting this thread is to improve my ability to create the experience.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Have you ever heard the expression if it ain’t broke don’t fix it? 
I think you should proceed with caution. It seems like your trying to manage her too much or talk about it too much and this in itself is a turn off. Relax and Just enjoy each other.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

How do you put multiple quotes into one message? I did a small one here and it required opening multiple windows, copying and pasting, checking all the code and the original poster. Is there an easier way? Also, how do you do a quote within a quote? I have seen others do this.

I was rereading the comments and noticed that orgasms was topic that many people asked about and commented on. I will just say; my wife has organisms because she wants them.
@Casual Observer, yes trying to work on things within a marriage can be very complicated. Both people in the marriage have expectation and hopes and wants and then we all try and deal with reality. I think sex is probably the most complicated of all topics. At least for us it is. ........ each time I try to add more to that it just keeps going and soon it is out of hand. So, I will just stop there......... Yea, its complicated.

Like you, I think I get more enjoyment from my wives orgasms than my own.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Left,
I do believe that your intentions aren’t bad. I also think that you are unwittingly entering into very, very treacherous terrain. 

If L2 starts to get any feeling that you are trying to create some sort of virtual humidity sensor - placed between her legs - I think you will find that her reaction is quite the opposite of your stated goal. 

When I was 14 my mom found a little penthouse magazine under my mattress when she was doing laundry. She didn’t confiscate it or ask where I got it. She made only one comment: The Penthouse letters are fictional, the publisher just makes them up. 
That was her only comment. 

But that hasn’t been remotely my experience. There hasn’t been anything I read in those letters - that M2 hasn’t enthusiastically done. 

I’m not a GQ guy, not a Wall Street guy, not a retired pro athlete. 

Believe it or not - if you asked M2 to pie chart how much effort I put into:
- Turning her on outside the bedroom vs
- Just doing things that I know make her smile, laugh or melt into me

I’m guessing she’d say 2% vs 98%. Which I’d say is probably right. Happiness and laughter are their own magic. There is NO WAY I could be as naturally playful and funny with M2 if I had an agenda. And on her behalf I’d say her completely unfiltered self is magical in a way I’ve never experienced with anyone else. 

The younger version of me - thought he was so so very clever. I discovered a little neuro-linguistic hack. This little hack amused me greatly. Anyway I did it to M2 for a little while and she lost the ability to sneeze when I was in the room. I’m not joking. Not being snarky. Not using some metaphors or similie. It took YEARS to undo that mess. I still feel bad about doing that. 






leftfield said:


> Because she says she is not. She only gets turned on during the action, there is basically no build up or anticipation for her.
> 
> This weekend I was able to produce some response from her many hours before the action. She does appear to have a normal sexual response.
> 
> ...


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Have you ever heard the expression if it ain’t broke don’t fix it?
> I think you should proceed with caution. It seems like your trying to manage her too much or talk about it too much and this in itself is a turn off. Relax and Just enjoy each other.


I have heard that phrase. I appreciate you sharing your perception. I think several other commenters agree with you.

Interestingly enough, Just this weekend I utilized some of the advice given and it went well for my wife and I. So do I listen to people who suggest 'leave well enough alone'. Or do I listen to my wife who says, keep trying to improve our sex life. I am good with that. And the results are good. Which would you choose?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

So your wife is actually asking you to help improve your sex life? 
What does she want? What does she complain about? What does she want to improve?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Left,
> I do believe that your intentions aren’t bad. I also think that you are unwittingly entering into very, very treacherous terrain.
> 
> If L2 starts to get any feeling that you are trying to create some sort of virtual humidity sensor - placed between her legs - I think you will find that her reaction is quite the opposite of your stated goal.
> ...


MEM, thank you for sharing your concerns. I appreciate it.

I tend to share your concerns, although I do not post them to TAM. I do share them in real life with my wife. Which is counter productive. Go figure.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Left,
I’m not speaking as a mod. Just a man in a happy marriage. 

I’ve never met anyone online who begins a thread with: 

*So guys how do you turn a woman on? Ladies what does a man do that really revs your engine? When I ask my wife I get no response. Except for once; when she cried (just the response every husband wants). @Marduk has indicated in several posts that he learned how to turn a woman on and get them to do 'wild' things. Other commentators have indicated similar things. Can anyone offers suggestions or point out good resources.
*

And then when he gets a lot of cautionary feedback - posts the statement BELOW in bold. With absolutely zero explanation as to how his wife did a TOTAL 180 in her viewpoint. 



leftfield said:


> I have heard that phrase. I appreciate you sharing your perception. I think several other commenters agree with you.
> 
> *Interestingly enough, Just this weekend I utilized some of the advice given and it went well for my wife and I. So do I listen to people who suggest 'leave well enough alone'. Or do I listen to my wife who says, keep trying to improve our sex life. I am good with that. And the results are good. Which would you choose?*




———————————

It is considered rude to adopt a snarky tone while contradicting your entire story line. 

And since your narrative has become completely incomprehensible to me, I will leave you in the hands of more patient site members.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

MEM2020 said:


> Believe it or not - if you asked M2 to pie chart how much effort I put into:
> - Turning her on outside the bedroom vs
> - Just doing things that I know make her smile, laugh or melt into me
> 
> I’m guessing she’d say 2% vs 98%. Which I’d say is probably right. Happiness and laughter are their own magic. There is NO WAY I could be as naturally playful and funny with M2 if I had an agenda.


This reminds me of Groundhog Day, when Phil Connors is trying to seduce Andy McDowell’s character.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> So your wife is actually asking you to help improve your sex life?
> What does she want? What does she complain about? What does she want to improve?


As I stated in my original post, my wife is Low Priority, which means she will put in minimum effort and use minimum energy on the topic. That means she does not ask, she is not wanting, she is not complaining.

She is willing to improve things as long as she is comfortable with it and I am the one putting in the effort and work. For her it is all reward, minimal effort. 

If she doesn't like something she lets me know. After that, she can sit back and relax.

If I waited for my wife to ask, want or complain; she would now be a divorced, working full-time......

Of course this is an oversimplification of things and there is a lot of nuance involved, but this does get the main idea across.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM2020 said:


> 2. I’m excessively patterned. This is not a positive quality. That said, I have created a little internal (wetware) app called - Variability and I run it regularly. M2 LOVES variability. I think variability turns M2 on more than almost anything.


Back in the day, I did a lot of thinking about sex. My relationship with it over the course of my whole life. Why I'm driven the way I am, why I'm wired the way I am. Things I liked that I forgot about, things that never turned me on that now do, and things that used to and don't any more. There was a whole lifetime of stuff there to unpack - from the mundane like why I had such a thing for girls in bikinis (was a hot high school girl that used to hang out around the public outdoor pool in a tiny bikini when I was in junior high) to why a dominatrix has no appeal to me except the sexy leather outfits (I don't respond to authority well).

That left me with a whole laundry list of stuff I wanted to do... try again, try a new thing, explore.

And then I did the same for my wife - what I've experienced of her, anyway. I thought about the totality of our sexual relationship, what drove her when we got together, what seems to drive her now, and what she's talked about with past experiences.

And what I ended up with was a fairly extensive list of experiments to try. I randomized it (literally had it in a spreadsheet) and started to knock them off, one by one. One a week, say. Some took more preparation (say a trip to a beach resort that is cool with women going topless), some took a conversation (how would you feel if we went to a sex-positive convention), some took just trying it out.

That list got me years worth of stuff to try and to learn. And took us off the beaten track many times.

Some succeed (where success = fun), some didn't (where failure = no fun or just a "no"), some were just kinda meh.

But we learned and had fun and shook boredom right out of the bedroom.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Left,
> I’m not speaking as a mod. Just a man in a happy marriage.
> 
> I’ve never met anyone online who begins a thread with:
> ...


 @MEM2020

My wife does not verbalize any ideas of what will turn her on (thus the first post). This weekend she responded in action not verbally (thus the 180 degree post). I am sorry that this was not clear.

Based on your closing statement (and that it already has likes); my writing does not come across very well. Thank you for pointing that out. It is completely understandable why you do not want to comment in this thread. But, thanks for the feedback you did give me.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@Marduk, thanks for your most recent post.

To everyone; it appears from multiple comments that I come across poorly in my writing. That is not my intent and I apologize to any of you who I have wronged. 

Looks like I will get to spend some time improving my writing and internet communication.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

No sweat Left. I realize you meant no harm. 





leftfield said:


> @Marduk, thanks for your most recent post.
> 
> To everyone; it appears from multiple comments that I come across poorly in my writing. That is not my intent and I apologize to any of you who have wronged.
> 
> Looks like I will get to spend some time improving my writing and internet communication.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Left,
> I’m not speaking as a mod. Just a man in a happy marriage.
> 
> I’ve never met anyone online who begins a thread with:
> ...


Its possible that the 180 degree turn you mention was in reference to my wife giving me 'no feedback' on what turns her on to my wife saying that she is "OK with me improving our sex life and liking the outcomes."
These are two different topics. So it is possible for my wife to have no ideas on what helps excite her at the same time she is OK with me trying to improve our sex life.
If that was the confusion, I hope I was able to explain it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That is huge progress. It means she trusts you. 

Culturally we casually and frequently shame and abuse women for their sexuality. I’m not suggesting that you do this, or that you’ve done anyone wrong. I’m saying that WE collectively do. So a woman whose husband is perhaps pressing her to speak - might feel frightened. Silence is sometimes the loudest cry of all. Typically silence and crying are a method of discouraging further pursuit of a particular topic. 

M2 played a fun game with me early on. First non sexually, than in a completely sexual context. I call it: Playing eye doctor

She would do some back massage thing and say:
- Better one 
Or
- And then she’d vary her touch in some way: finger tips to finger nails or knuckles or harder or softer or faster or slower or horizontal to diagonal or diagonal to vertical. And each time - like with the optometrist - her touch is getting better and better 

Over and over she would say:
Better one? 
or
Better two?

The thing we have BOTH gotten much better about is not reflexively radiating disappointment (which is hurtful) or disapproval (even worse) when the other person sometimes does things that are different than what we would do. 





leftfield said:


> Its possible that the 180 degree turn you mention was in reference to my wife giving me 'no feedback' on what turns her on to my wife saying that she is "OK with me improving our sex life and liking the outcomes."
> These are two different topics. So it is possible for my wife to have no ideas on what helps excite her at the same time she is OK with me trying to improve our sex life.
> If that was the confusion, I hope I was able to explain it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

leftfield said:


> As I stated in my original post, my wife is Low Priority, which means she will put in minimum effort and use minimum energy on the topic. That means she does not ask, she is not wanting, she is not complaining.
> 
> She is willing to improve things as long as she is comfortable with it and I am the one putting in the effort and work. For her it is all reward, minimal effort.
> 
> ...




When things are important to people, they put the effort in. When things aren’t important to people they don’t put the effort in. It doesn’t matter if she is low priority... that just means sex isn’t important to her, therefore she has no complaints. 

You said I’m your post.... “Or do I listen to my wife who says, keep trying to improve our sex life.”

This isn’t true... she did not SAY keep trying to improve our sex life. Its your managing and forcing the issue, which I already warned you to be careful. 

Your projecting your wife. It’s YOU who is unhappy with the sex life not her. You are trying to make this about pleasing her and giving her an enjoyable experience but that’s not what she said she even wanted. I bet she just wants you to lay off and enjoy the sex as is. 

It’s like me making it my mission to get my boyfriend in touch with his emotions more, so I’ll try all these things and experiment to see what works, all because I think he will enjoy life more when he is in tune with his emotions. Do you get how crazy that sounds? He is fine with how he is, and it’s ME that wants to change him not him. I should accept him for who he is instead of trying to pull the strings and try to change him.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

leftfield said:


> Its possible that the 180 degree turn you mention was in reference to my wife giving me 'no feedback' on what turns her on to my wife saying that she is "OK with me improving our sex life and liking the outcomes."
> 
> These are two different topics. So it is possible for my wife to have no ideas on what helps excite her at the same time she is OK with me trying to improve our sex life.
> 
> If that was the confusion, I hope I was able to explain it.



I would not make that assumption if I were you - that these are two different topics. 

I think it belies a deeper dynamic.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MEM2020 said:


> The thing we have BOTH gotten much better about is not reflexively radiating disappointment (which is hurtful) or disapproval (even worse) when the other person sometimes does things that are different than what we would do.


How something is said can be far more important than what they mean. When I'm working on my wife (back rub & massage), if I apply too much pressure in an area, she'll respond with words or a tone that make it sound like I'm doing it on purpose. When she says "Not so hard!" it's the same tone of voice she'd use if she thought I was doing something deliberately to hurt her. She could say "OK, I like that amount of pressure, no need to push any harder." She doesn't guide, she criticizes. Over time you get used to it, but part of that getting used to things means hardening your own shell to become less vulnerable. 

I think "critique" in the bedroom is a huge source of trouble for couples. For many, sex and intimacy is a time of shared vulnerability. You're really open. Trusting. It's just the two of you trying to move beyond the clutter and hassles of day-to-day life by giving and taking of something shared with nobody else in the world. Failures in how we communicate with each other, at that time, will potentially magnify hugely in importance. In fact, it's likely that issues that should be dealt with outside of the bedroom are mistakenly seen as issues centered on sex, because it's during sex that everything personal comes into play.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

At a simplistic level you can describe the behavioral aspect of a human from foundation to rooftop in terms of:
- Traits
- Skills 
- Knowledge

Our MC taught us a skill - I call it: The mature persons guide to marital pain management. 

She asked me if I was better at addressing things in the moment - while agitated, or later while calm. No comparison for me. 

Last week, in the middle of a nice little vacation M2 says: Why did we fly into airport ABC, instead of airport XYZ? 

Because I made our trip plans many months ago, I no longer had any recollection of what the relative distances to the airports were. I thought I had picked the nearest airport to the place we were staying. But in the moment I was having a little anxiety as M2 doubles down and says: well maybe we can CHANGE OUR INTERNATIONAL TICKETS AND DROP OUR RENTAL CAR OFF AT AIRPORT XYZ for the flight home. By now - I’ve got google maps up and I’ve tapped in XYZ. It is WAY further from our place than ABC. Huge wave of relief washes over me. 

Babe, look - I show her the XYZ route and drive time. Then type in ABC and she sees that it is MUCH closer/faster. 

This is an M2 trait. Super unfiltered. Thing is - M2 is more spontaneously entertaining than all my prior girlfriends combined. So early on I simply made the conscious choice not to berate her for the far less entertaining type of spontaneity described above. 

Four days later, we are in an Uber on the way home from the airport and M2 is telling the driver about our trip. During her narrative she casually mentions that airports ABC and XYZ are six of one, half dozen of the other, in terms of distance from where we stayed. Now - that - is not working for me. There is ONLY one person who I allow to tinker with my sense of space/time. And that is Albert Einstein. M2 is not authorized to rip 70 miles of space from the Earths crust in order to neutralize a conversational misstep. 

Later that night I tell M2 I had a mini anxiety attack over the airport choice and was really relieved when google maps showed that our chosen airport was a lot closer. Only to then discover during our uber drive that they had somehow become magically equidistant - likely thru some rapidly accelerated plate tectonics. At which point I watched the self awareness wash across her face as she said: That was not very nice of me. Sorry. 




Casual Observer said:


> How something is said can be far more important than what they mean. When I'm working on my wife (back rub & massage), if I apply too much pressure in an area, she'll respond with words or a tone that make it sound like I'm doing it on purpose. When she says "Not so hard!" it's the same tone of voice she'd use if she thought I was doing something deliberately to hurt her. She could say "OK, I like that amount of pressure, no need to push any harder." She doesn't guide, she criticizes. Over time you get used to it, but part of that getting used to things means hardening your own shell to become less vulnerable.
> 
> I think "critique" in the bedroom is a huge source of trouble for couples. For many, sex and intimacy is a time of shared vulnerability. You're really open. Trusting. It's just the two of you trying to move beyond the clutter and hassles of day-to-day life by giving and taking of something shared with nobody else in the world. Failures in how we communicate with each other, at that time, will potentially magnify hugely in importance. In fact, it's likely that issues that should be dealt with outside of the bedroom are mistakenly seen as issues centered on sex, because it's during sex that everything personal comes into play.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MEM2020 said:


> At a simplistic level you can describe the behavioral aspect of a human from foundation to rooftop in terms of:
> - Traits
> - Skills
> - Knowledge
> ...


Oh my. I do *all* the travel plans for our often-ultra-complex international trips. I try, very hard, to get her involved. She has no interest, she just wants to go on the trip. She knows how much time it takes for me to get things figured out, and she knows that, somehow, 99.9% of the time, things somehow magically go right. All the connections made, or if somethings goes awry, I *always* have a Plan B, even a Plan C. She knows that, with my status with the airline, she enjoys a lot of perks others don't get, including emergency re-routing. 

And so... if she does question something negatively... if I've let myself get too run down and a bit testy... it's like, it sure would help to have some input ahead of time so ALL of the blame doesn't rest on me, y'know? 

And, since the topic here is sex in marriage after all... towards the end of one of our trips, and I'm looking forward to (not) the long trip back home, that last night on our vacation I'm looking forward to one last fun unencumbered roll in the hay. Helps me destress and sleep better for the long travel day ahead. And invariably, on that last night, she's just not feeling it. Because the vacation is over and we're heading home. I've never been pro-active on this before. Think on our next trip I will be. I'll bring it up beforehand, make sure she knows how much more fun it will be traveling home with me if my last night overseas was filled with pleasant memories and not stupid frustration. It's petty, I know.

We've drifted OT here, haven't we? Except that travel overseas is one of the few things that my wife really does look forward to, and not a stretch to say she's much more turned on, sexually, when on these trips. So... how to turn my wife on... I'd need a constant supply of unmarked tens & twentys, and no business to take care of. Just take my wife on a 10 day trip once a month. Have a feeling it could end up one of those "be careful what you wish for" things.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There is nothing petty about any of this - and it is interesting how anxiety manifests differently in different people. 

M2 is never ever up for sex the night before we are beginning our vacations. She’s a little anxious about traveling so....

That used to irritate the heck out of me. 

I was laughing as you described your planning because we are so similar. M2 hates trip planning and will often gratefully play a game of: Hop on pop, with me after I walk her thru a summary of a completed trip plan a couple months ahead of show time. Summary only, emphasis on the highlights without the mechanics/logistics. 

All I know is that the early part of our marriage was filled with YOU SUCK BECAUSE. This actually didn’t work very well as the recipient tended to respond with: Well, now that we are on the topic of who sucks why, I feel obligated to point out, nay, to fully enumerate the long list of ways that you suck far worse than I do. 

This was a combative, and sad state of affairs that M2 magically altered one day by very pleasantly saying: 

Babe, 
It would be so nice if you didn’t walk in the door after a long work day - still on the phone - typically on a call that runs on for another 10-20 minutes. 

I sort of felt stunned. Like - oh - here is a person who actually enjoys my company and I’m doing this super impolite thing and have been for YEARS and - here she is NICELY asking me to actually be present on arrival. 

And it was like that moment in the Grinch - where he wakes up - anyway I said: that is fair

And then I just completely stopped doing that. 

This is the same thing in a way. Wife, it would be nice if you were fully present with me to the end of our vacations. 

Now sometimes M2 plays a game that I’m not so keen on. In fact, I’m allergic to it. I call it: The game of willful incomprehension 

I’ve developed two behavioral hacks to deal with this: 
1. It feels bad when it seems as if you have already mentally returned home, despite us both still physically being somewhere nice.
2. Baby, will it aid in comprehension for me to spank you while repeating what I just said?





Casual Observer said:


> Oh my. I do *all* the travel plans for our often-ultra-complex international trips. I try, very hard, to get her involved. She has no interest, she just wants to go on the trip. She knows how much time it takes for me to get things figured out, and she knows that, somehow, 99.9% of the time, things somehow magically go right. All the connections made, or if somethings goes awry, I *always* have a Plan B, even a Plan C. She knows that, with my status with the airline, she enjoys a lot of perks others don't get, including emergency re-routing.
> 
> And so... if she does question something negatively... if I've let myself get too run down and a bit testy... it's like, it sure would help to have some input ahead of time so ALL of the blame doesn't rest on me, y'know?
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I left two important things out of the post below. 

1. In the years that followed I repeatedly thanked M2 for altering our marital trajectory towards frequent use of the phrase: 
“it would be nice if”
and away from 
“you suck because”
2. I’ve tried to recognize that MY tone, when playful and sincere is almost as irresistible to M2 as she is to me, situation reversed




MEM2020 said:


> There is nothing petty about any of this - and it is interesting how anxiety manifests differently in different people.
> 
> M2 is never ever up for sex the night before we are beginning our vacations. She’s a little anxious about traveling so....
> 
> ...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> How something is said can be far more important than what they mean. When I'm working on my wife (back rub & massage), if I apply too much pressure in an area, she'll respond with words or a tone that make it sound like I'm doing it on purpose. When she says "Not so hard!" it's the same tone of voice she'd use if she thought I was doing something deliberately to hurt her. She could say "OK, I like that amount of pressure, no need to push any harder." She doesn't guide, she criticizes. Over time you get used to it, but part of that getting used to things means hardening your own shell to become less vulnerable.
> 
> I think "critique" in the bedroom is a huge source of trouble for couples. For many, sex and intimacy is a time of shared vulnerability. You're really open. Trusting. It's just the two of you trying to move beyond the clutter and hassles of day-to-day life by giving and taking of something shared with nobody else in the world. Failures in how we communicate with each other, at that time, will potentially magnify hugely in importance. In fact, it's likely that issues that should be dealt with outside of the bedroom are mistakenly seen as issues centered on sex, because it's during sex that everything personal comes into play.


Absolutely!!

One can't use the same tone of voice as when scolding the dog. 😂😂😂


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Absolutely!!
> 
> One can't use the same tone of voice as when scolding the dog. 😂😂😂


I would love to be treated as nicely as a pet sometimes!


MEM2020 said:


> There is nothing petty about any of this - and it is interesting how anxiety manifests differently in different people.
> 
> M2 is never ever up for sex the night before we are beginning our vacations. She’s a little anxious about traveling so....
> 
> ...


One of the things I read, maybe from the 5 Love Languages, was this-

Don't ask someone to "do something." Ask "Could you do this for me?" Adding the "for me" really does seem to make a difference. Can't tell you why. Maybe it's because he or she is telling you this is something they value, which for some reason is different than just telling you to do it. Because it's valued, it's not punishment, it's not a chore, it's special. It may accumulate points, but doesn't go so far as to remove the fine print from scoring point, the part that explains "Accumulated points will automatically expire prior to any possible time of redemption."


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

leftfield said:


> So guys how do you turn a woman on?


 @leftfield I have the exact answer right here. I keep it locked in this safe that has a door with a dummy lock and handle to fool and would be lock pick. Catch 22 is as soon as a woman discovers what mystery is hidden in the safe, it will no longer work! 

This is my way to joke around to say that mystery combined with a little romance generally works, but never try the same idea twice!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@badsanta

Well then I will just need to keep thinking up some new ideas.

Posts #34, 36 & 48. Have given me enough ideas and things to improve to keep me busy for a while.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

leftfield said:


> @badsanta
> 
> Well then I will just need to keep thinking up some new ideas.
> 
> Posts #34, 36 & 48. Have given me enough ideas and things to improve to keep me busy for a while.


I find myself thinking about this comment in this thread:



leftfield said:


> Ladies what does a man do that really revs your engine? When I ask my wife I get no response. Except for once; when she cried (just the response every husband wants).


You later elaborated that you wanted her to get a revved up as possible on a date night and asked her how to do that, which her response was to cry. Perhaps it could be nothing, but in my struggles to understand the mindset of female sexuality here is what may have happened... She wants you to enjoy dating her for who she is as a person and make the most of a friendship together. A comment like that could make her feel like you just care about sex and not so much about the other stuff. 

So @leftfield I would strongly encourage you to invest a great deal of effort into improving nonsexual intimacy, and you should notice a correlation in that it will improve the quality of your sexual intimacy. Sometimes after a relationship has sexually flourished the lines between sexual intimacy and nonsexual intimacy get blurred, so you may want to be mindful about that as well.

So what are areas of nonsexual intimacy? #1 is just simple listening, but first let us look into the male brain:










The first mistake that happens is that some men will connect their listening particle to a sex processing region. This leads to listening to your wife and trying to relate/understand/transition the conversation into one about sex. Generally speaking, try not to do this and be aware of yourself when it happens. Because your listening particle is so close to a small attention span, personal question avoidance, and lame excuses gland... well those also have a strong tendency to connect and shut down your ability to listen. Very scientific research has recently discovered that just after a good meal that your sexual brain switches gears and transforms into some kind of pleasure cacheing mode that is of a primal instinct. So much like a dog buries a bone for later, the male brain will cleverly prime and postpone sexual activities so that after digestion is complete everything in the bedroom is ready to go. Awkwardly enough the notion of this will transform the sexual parts of your brain into semi-sexual listening regions. Everything still gets process/understood/related to sex, but listening and conversations are geared to making sure sex does not happen right away but about 30 minutes to an hour later. 

So enjoy a very large meal together (say a late lunch on the weekends), and then prepare yourself for a nice/deep conversation afterwards that instinctually will be geared for postponing sex until after you finished digesting your meal. Believe it or not this even works while cuddling in the nude. So if you have at least 45 minutes or so to cuddle try that and then sex will be amazing right after your body says, "OK let's go for it!" 

After a while of training your sexual brain to do this and getting better sex as a result, it will be able to do it without the need for a large meal.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I went shopping with DW to get stuff for a family get together and I was trying to get food spanning all members likes as well as hers but as this was for her birthday get together she was all about "no, we're only getting what I want".

She'd had a tough day, that kind of contributed. She wanted things to be solely about her for a bit.

Enter short discussion at store, but after 30 seconds (literally) I responded with "absolutely dear, you pick it, let's get it it, I'm for whatever you want to get, it is all about your day" etc. truly and earnestly because that's what she needed.

I didn't totally understand, it would have been convenient to get some other items too, but I long ago realized I don't have to understand all her wants, just roll with them in a good spirit and help when I can.

I'll have to go back to the store, but I didn't bring that up, it would interfere with what she needed at that time.

That did actually turn her on, for evening activities. 

PS we're all having grilled salmon and shrimp, for eight and kids. Head grill master here. 👍👍👍


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

I obviously did not get things across very well in this thread.

According to my wife she cried because it was just one of those things a woman can't explain. She also cried at work that week for no reason. Her explanation for both is; must have been hormones. She has discussed the exact same topic with out crying. Any interpretation of her crying is my perspective and/or the perspective of TAM members. I probably should have never brought it up because, like me, people here want to make something of it. Which is not what she wants.

@badsanta, our non sexual intimacy is awesome. It always has been. Except when she beats me in battleship, she is so incredibly lucky when she plays that game.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

leftfield said:


> I obviously did not get things across very well in this thread.
> 
> According to my wife she cried because it was just one of those things a woman can't explain. She also cried at work that week for no reason. Her explanation for both is; must have been hormones. She has discussed the exact same topic with out crying. Any interpretation of her crying is my perspective and/or the perspective of TAM members. I probably should have never brought it up because, like me, people here want to make something of it. Which is not what she wants.
> 
> @badsanta, our non sexual intimacy is awesome. It always has been. Except when she beats me in battleship, she is so incredibly lucky when she plays that game.


In my defense, I did say her crying could be nothing. Everyone on TAM also enjoys projecting their own problems onto each other as well. I try my best to be self aware of that. 

I so want to focus on her "no reason" for crying and make something out of that. I'm conjuring up visions of this coworker I had that used to cry at her desk almost everyday. Usually in the mornings just after arriving to work. In her case her significant other could not keep a job and what little bit of money he earned was immediately spent hanging out with his pals at the bar drinking and shooting pool until she got off work. 

...OK I'm ready to make my assumptions now! You are really bad a battleship because you are drunk and don't realize you took all the battleships and left your wife none. 

Was that par for the course for TAM? 

Anyway, glad to hear your news about nonsexual intimacy. When combined with chemistry in the bedroom that just happens naturally, leave well enough alone and keep investing in nonsexual intimacy and being a good listener. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> I have similar thoughts that a lot of it is mental. She gets turned on when we are having sex. But I can't figure out how to turn her on, in terms of creating excitement for her.
> 
> Currently, We average about 3 times a week. She gets off every time. She will masturbate if I ask her to. Last time I asked she did not get off. She ran out of time.


I'm late to this party, and sorry if I skipped a beat here, but I'm actually confused on what this is about and would like to understand. She gets turned on when you're having sex - and seems to respond to you asking her (or perhaps telling her) to do something. You want her to be turned on and create excitement. Is it that you want more excitement in your style of sex - or that you want more build-up/desire occurring between you?

If it's about desire, I'd be considering what it is about the sex between you that turns her on. What's the dynamic between you when having sex? I don't mean for you to actually answer that, but rather to expand on those elements, perhaps in a subtle way, outside the bedroom. Now that I'm typing this out, I'm likely agreeing with bandit. 

Also, just as important in knowing what turns our spouse on, is to know what turns our spouse off.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> She is willing to improve things as long as she is comfortable with it and I am the one putting in the effort and work. For her it is all reward, minimal effort.
> 
> If she doesn't like something she lets me know. After that, she can sit back and relax.


I'm trying to imagine the shoe on the other foot. If my husband was comfortable with me putting in the effort and work to our sex-life with his minimal effort, I would consider him lazy and disinterested. 

If I try to re-frame this so as not to cause potential prickly feelings in this thread, and perhaps put a positive spin on this, it could be interpreted that she wants you to take the lead and that that turns her on. I'm only surmising though and could be way off. 

I am all for being able to discuss sex between spouses, but really, all behavior is a communication. And during sex, how she responds and interacts with you, is also a communication.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> I would love to be treated as nicely as a pet sometimes!


At least the dog or cat gets lovingly stroked with some regularity:wink2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> I remember my wife getting turned on after watching Magic Mike and we had sex right after. Something like that can be good. I’d also ask her how you can improve yourself physically to be more attractive to her, what cologne turns her on, how you dress, etc.



Yes, that’s a good test. Get Magic Mike (or the equivalent straight version) to have sex with your wife and see if there’s any difference. If there isn’t, then you know it’s not you 

How old is wife? Maybe she is just getting to know her body (and you are getting to know her body). Practice regularly. You don’t need to be ‘the best’...Just good for her should be fine. Or at least as good as Magic Mike 



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

leftfield said:


> This thread will not go into specific things we might add. In this thread I am looking for ways to try and help her get turned on. She does not need to show me that she is. Her excitement is for her to enjoy. If she chooses to share that with me, I will love it.
> 
> For many years, she has actively tried to shut down the mental part of her sexual response and would only let it out under xyz conditions (religion played a role here). Now we have reached a point where she is comfortable and willing to enjoy things. I hope to be able to create situations where she has a response and maybe she can learn to let her mind open to these. Maybe she will not learn that. Her and I will not know that until after we try.


I think a lot of husbands (maybe I was one of them) think that there is some kind of magical button one can press that will produce a specific result. A woman's sexuality seems to be complex and there is a lot of variability within each (as has been mentioned) so it's very hard to come up with some kind of universal formula.

I imagine the female drive to be situated on a spectrum that can move between two points: it can move higher or lower but it will not move beyond the two points. There are many things that can influence it (hormones, age, experience, partner, exercise, weather, time in the cycle...). You can help but I think it's better first to understand a few truisms:

1. If her drive works differently from yours (for example she is not overtly showing her excitement or initiating etc), it doesn't mean she enjoys it less when it happens.

2. You pushing her on this (when she cried, which btw, happened to me too once so I understand) is about you, not about helping her (she may well like the way things are and is confused why you are unsatisfied).

Why is this an issue now? What was happening for the past 19 years? 

I notice this pattern that there always comes a point in a guy's life when he suddenly decides to 'sort out his wife's sex drive problem'. Where has he been all these previous years? Most likely enjoying the sex because he was so horny that he didn't care whether the wife was initiating enough, wild enough, performing xyz acts or talking about sex enough etc. I believe part of the problem is also the male drive....it declines with age, it needs more obvious stimulation, more input from the wife. The brain will find every possible reason why this "always has been an issue" yet the fact is that it's only now, that the husband is keen to do something about it.

I know it's not so simple and there are so many other factors too as well as marriages where sex has been mostly non-existent.. This is just one of the aspects never taken into account by the guy when he tries to home onto the problem.

Anyway, there are many things you can try to make it better - and you *can* make it better, for yourself - but you may not be able to move her out of her 'zone' completely, onto a different sexual realm. But I don't think you need to. You can tweak your thinking too which is much easier that to try and change her. Because there *is* nothing really wrong; you guys have sex 3 times a week and she is not constantly rejecting you or finding excuses not to be touched: it's not bad nor unusual by any standard.

To offer specific advice, it might be easier if you are specific about what sort of things you expect (and what you mean by getting her to do 'wild things').


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> What stands out most was one time when a guy said that he was going to "get me so excited". He tried so hard by eating me out like that was some kind of amazing gift. Tried his best. Too late I was already so turned off by his trying far too hard. I let him have sex with me because i was stupid like that. But yuck. Just yuck.



I agree, there’s nothing worse than a guy trying to do a good job at oral 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> The best times with a woman, for me, always seem to happen when I start making love to her long before I see her.



Incredible! How large are you?  


I know what you mean...
Actually the more I think about it, my wife is most turned on when I am not there...

This may not sound right but I think she prefers sex with strangers (but that stranger has to be me. Usually. As far as safety is concerned but not for the purposes of sex).

I don’t know. I think ‘connected sex’ means different things to different people. Some people find it easier to connect, when they are able to completely disconnect first...This may make sense to some of you but probably not to others.

Anyway, she gets very turned on when I go away (travel) and then text her stuff that need to be done to her on my return...Anticipation is a powerful aphrodisiac but more difficult to achieve in person (in case you are very annoying, like me).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Duplicate nonsense


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Even more non sense from me...Took a while to catch up with this thread - apologies.

Some confusion I also experienced while reading it: you mentioned you wanted to improve sex life and then it wasn’t clear whether it is something she also wants or needs or whether it is something you THINK she needs or would be good for her? If she reads the thread, would it not be easier for her to reply? (By which time you both might as well realise that the issue is in fact already solved....). 
A lot of stuff gets lost in translation and ‘repackaged’ so the actual issues can get lost in the noise.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Marduk said:


> I agree, but I also think that people get caught up in roles - “a wife wouldn’t do that” or age - “I’m not 20 anymore, stop acting like I am,” are things I’ve heard.
> 
> But I think there’s a component too of being expected to continue something, and not wanting that to be the case. Like trying stuff out and then not being expected to do it often again for the next 20 years.
> 
> ...



I am the same. NRE seems to affect me inversely...I always had trouble being ‘sexual’ - or even getting aroused with a new person. But I was very young...And feel the older I get, the more attracted I feel towards her.

When it comes to women...from reading (and personal, though limited practical experience), I actually think majority of women are more like @JustTheWife, she just seems like she is the minority because she is one of few who is willing to be honest/talk about it. I don’t think spontaneous arousal is all that common among women, but even if it is common among 10% of women, it is still a huge amount, number-wise. Most women need to strongly feel the guy’s desire, in order to be aroused, and get turned off from probing, questioning and indecision. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the 10%, it’s just different.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@badsanta; sounds about right. I am drunk on love for her, so I take all the battleships and carriers. 

@heartsbeating; I am looking for ideas on how to help my wife build excitement and anticipation. Like when a couple is on a romantic evening, what things would help her get excited for a sexual experience at the end. I would also like ideas on what kind of foreplay women might like; my wife tends not to enjoy it much. 

For many years I would have agreed that she was disinterested and lazy about sex. I believe your positive take on it is more accurate now. She is willing to follow were I lead. 

@InMyPrime; it is not an issue. It is simply one person coming to TAM and asking for ideas about something that my wife and I have agreed on. I gave some background information because I thought it would be helpful for people to understand a little about us. The background information has created issues with communication on this thread and gotten away from the topic.

I just tried clarifying a few specific things I would like input on when I replied to hearsbeating a few paragraphs earlier. In one of my posts I have already indicated that we have done just about every 'wild thing' we are willing to do. The reference to 'wild things' in the original post was an example of what some people do when they are sexually excited. 



InMyPrime said:


> Some confusion I also experienced while reading it: you mentioned you wanted to improve sex life and then it wasn’t clear whether it is something she also wants or needs or whether it is something you THINK she needs or would be good for her? If she reads the thread, would it not be easier for her to reply?......A lot of stuff gets lost in translation and ‘repackaged’ so the actual issues can get lost in the noise.


This is something we have both agreed to. She has read a few comments and she could post if she wanted to. I do not believe there is an issue (I'm sure someone disagrees), just a man looking to learn.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

leftfield said:


> Since I am asking for information on sexual pleasure, I think it would be good to give you a little background about my wife and I. I will try and keep it really short.
> 
> My wife and I both come from very religious background and we were both virgins on our wedding night. It happens that I am HD and very interested in sexual pleasure. My wife could be called LD, but I think low priority (LP) would be a better description of her. In the nearly 19 years we have been married we have gone through almost every issue a HD and a LD person can. The way I describe it now is: we had a lot to learn and we are getting there.
> 
> ...


 @leftfield

1) Learn to be "The Best Kisser" ever. That is the most important button you can press. You have to be a sensual kisser, kiss her endlessly as if she was a virgin who only let you kiss her and you have to convince her 'to give it up' throught kissing. Then breath and kiss behind her year and sometimes say sweet nothings pressing her against the wall, and sometimes adding some crude tings too in this whisper.

Ig you sometimes do this with no intention of going to bed, just to make her FEEL sensual, that will make her day!

2) NEVER lose an oportunity to press hour crotch in her butt while she is cooking of washing the dishes, and sometimes playfully slap her butt too, especially if you have kids just in the other room. Dont let the kids see hahaha, ,ut it will give her a thrill, even if she complaon or say you arr deviant (she wont mean it really and SHE WILL ENJOY feeling like she is the one who makes you deviant).


I must add that being an AWESOME kisser is the most important thing for a woman sexuality. Kissing her sweetly sometimes, but most times strong and raw, with groping and pressing will save you a lot of MC and "doing the deed" alone by yourself. And kiss her the most you can, like you are in the back of your car (but instead of sneaking in a car you will do just behind the kids back hahahaha). Men always forget (or never know) how kissing is important for a woman ego and excitment.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> @heartsbeating; I am looking for ideas on how to help my wife build excitement and anticipation. Like when a couple is on a romantic evening, what things would help her get excited for a sexual experience at the end. I would also like ideas on what kind of foreplay women might like; my wife tends not to enjoy it much.
> 
> For many years I would have agreed that she was disinterested and lazy about sex. I believe your positive take on it is more accurate now. She is willing to follow were I lead.


I'm still unclear of _why_ this is important to you. And do you know that it's important to her? Is it that you want to feel desired by her?

What foreplay have you tried that she didn't like?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> I'm still unclear of _why_ this is important to you. And do you know that it's important to her? Is it that you want to feel desired by her?
> 
> What foreplay have you tried that she didn't like?



Let me get this straight; it is unclear why I am interested in my wife's sexual response? Isn't this common between spouses? 

Well, how exactly do we know what is important to her? If you could be so kind as to make it clear what we are talking about when you say; 'is it important to my wife', then I would be able to clearly address what you mean. The meaning of my comments in this thread have sometimes gone over poorly, and other times they have been twisted and turned. So, I am trying to be extra careful with what I type.

No, it is not about me feeling desired by her.

It might be that I do not understand what constitutes foreplay. Things that I have tried include setting the mood (clean, quiet, lighting). Taking care of the days activities so she can relax. Touch and massage with and without kissing.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

leftfield said:


> heartsbeating said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still unclear of _why_ this is important to you. And do you know that it's important to her? Is it that you want to feel desired by her?
> ...


I think @heartsbeating has a very good question! Perhaps you are projecting your own sexual reality onto your wife and assuming what is so important to you must also be important to her. Generally speaking it never works that way.

One partner may want to get very revved up, aroused, and enjoy being teased and toyed with by a spouse. The other partner may desire that lovemaking be simple and not sprawl out into this huge massive theater production that requires one to know their lines, rehearse scenes, and get into a sexy costumes in order to please or be pleased by a partner. 

This is just a hypothetical question @leftfield but what if your wife sees you trying too hard and perceives that as a sign that the sexual relationship is over and it causes her to lament the days when things were just simple, driven by natural lust and basic romance? What if those things don't come back? Is it over? 

Or is there something else that is more important to your wife's sexuality that you have been ignoring? Like wanting to have more kids, overcoming issues with daily stress, or working on self development like dieting together and getting exercise... Meanwhile learning the latest pickup move to seduce your wife and hope it drives her wild may only serve to give her performance anxiety because she may see it as a form of manipulation and you trying to control her. 

Just say'n

Badsanta


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@moon7, Thank you for your input. My wife does really like kissing, so your first point is definitely relevant. Although she does not care about the sweet nothings part. Even so, your comment about kissing was great. About your second point; I know my wife well; and she would usually find pressing my crotch to her butt a turn off not a turn on. So, I will probably skip that suggestion.

@badsanta, It appears that you are building on the question of 'is it important to her?'. Then you share possibilities based on how she would answer/perceive that question. Is this correct? You did a great job of presenting several possibilities and you clearly took time to write thoughtful and caring response. Thank you for that.

I will not comment on the question of 'is it important to her?', until it is clear what we are talking about. My previous attempts at addressing that question have lead to nothing but a quagmire. 

I will state the my wife and I are completely comfortable with what we are doing. Commenting on TAM; not so much.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Leftfield,

Perhaps you shared this later in the thread and I missed it, how did you achieve the result that I bolded below? 





leftfield said:


> Because she says she is not. She only gets turned on during the action, there is basically no build up or anticipation for her.
> 
> *This weekend I was able to produce some response from her many hours before the action. She does appear to have a normal sexual response. *
> 
> ...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

leftfield said:


> @badsanta, It appears that you are building on the question of 'is it important to her?'. Then you share possibilities based on how she would answer/perceive that question. Is this correct? You did a great job of presenting several possibilities and you clearly took time to write thoughtful and caring response. Thank you for that.
> 
> I will not comment on the question of 'is it important to her?', until it is clear what we are talking about. My previous attempts at addressing that question have lead to nothing but a quagmire.
> 
> I will state the my wife and I are completely comfortable with what we are doing. Commenting on TAM; not so much.


There are a lot of things that people could project regarding the question "is it important to her" particularly if the feedback and advice comes from relationships of varying length. A couple together for just a few years would have very strong opinions and a couple together for a few decades would have very different opinions. No point of view is more or less correct than the other, but nonetheless asking if the notion of you "turning a woman on" is important from your wife's perspective is a useful question to explore. 

The very first thing I learned on TAM was that wives (most) often grow to resent husbands that try every trick in the book to ramp up her desire levels. 

I've been there and done that. Perhaps you may enjoy some of my tips from a few years back: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-m...rried-mans-playbook-seducing-your-spouse.html

Perhaps I need to go back and add to the list?



*Badsanta's Married Man's PUA Move #56,278.b The Mad Masochist * 

In gridlocked relationships the notion of rejection is often a very elaborate dance fueled with the most mind bending passive aggressive behaviors that you didn't even know you had in you. A wife struggling with desire will also struggle with issues of having to tell her husband no and disappoint him that she can't get in the mood. 


*Step 1:* Claim that you over time have developed a disturbing fetish for tease and denial. Ask your wife to help you get over this kink because you think it is causing problems in the marriage. Tell her that every time she says no that you have started to derive pleasure from it because your mind now enjoys feeling as if she is a dominatrix that wants to punish you and that is how you have started to perceive love. 

*Step 2:* When your wife tells you no, claim it turns you on and tell her that you can't stop yourself from compelling her to tell you no again because you get off on it. At the same time admit that this is bad and you know you need help to stop.

*Step 3:* Claim that this wild new kink of yours is perhaps driving you to behaviors that make her say no. But advise her to be careful because if she points them out that you will become highly aroused and get off on that too. 

*Step 4:* Compliment your wife and mention that she looks sexy!

*Step 5:* Enjoy!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

leftfield said:


> About your second point; I know my wife well; and she would usually find pressing my crotch to her butt a turn off not a turn on. So, I will probably skip that suggestion.


 @leftfield


Thats the thing: 

ALL women make believe they hate it. When hubby does that I always slightly push him away and call him a pervert. I have no idea why we do it, but I love it and I know many women who loves it.

Now, it maybe true that your wife is one of those 2% who truly hate it, but she maybe only following this feminine irational script that even I dont know why we have.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

moon7 said:


> leftfield said:
> 
> 
> > About your second point; I know my wife well; and she would usually find pressing my crotch to her butt a turn off not a turn on. So, I will probably skip that suggestion.
> ...


Actually, its like a "good girl x alpha perv" kind of script. I'll call it like this.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

EVERY woman enjoy a mix of sweet nothings and crude words mixed together and whispered in her ear during a kissing-making-out-section (dont forget to breath behind her ear and suck her neck just below her earlobe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Its basic and every dumb cad with iq 80 knows and uses that to make virgins drop their panties.

Try it again and again until you tune with what she likes to hear and make a small repertoire around what she enjoys.

Maybe looking in her history to find what porn she enjoys and TUNE WAY LOWER than the porn, because while watching porn most sane people just want to press the harder and faster the trigger to release in no time at all while never wanting to do that in real life, and you cant "pull her trigger" because you only want to TURN HER ON and the final trigger must be you otherwise she will later have sex thinking of porn instead of the real you there.

Example: if she is into breeding start with "i love bla bla bla" and put in the middle "my sperm this and that".

Hahaha, Im sounding real lame, and if im wrong im really sorry.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> Let me get this straight; it is unclear why I am interested in my wife's sexual response? Isn't this common between spouses?
> 
> Well, how exactly do we know what is important to her? If you could be so kind as to make it clear what we are talking about when you say; 'is it important to my wife', then I would be able to clearly address what you mean. The meaning of my comments in this thread have sometimes gone over poorly, and other times they have been twisted and turned. So, I am trying to be extra careful with what I type.
> 
> ...


I appreciate that you're considering how you come across in type - without body language and tone, I can find it tricky myself. I'm a lot more approachable in person!

If you want to spark arousal, there’s nothing sexier than the limbic system, the cerebral cortex, and neurotransmitters. No doubt just reading those words will get motors running! …while I kid, the point is that the brain is the biggest sexual organ. Along with the brain are our senses. The type and intensity of touch and kissing can vary, and that’s where the script of the relationship dynamic, along with sociocultural, biological and psychological elements can determine whether or not a certain approach is sexually arousing. The visual, sense of smell and pheromones, sound, and taste are all factors of arousal to be explored too. 

If I consider excitement and anticipation, it is typically linked to the erotic stages of seduction, sensation, surrender, and reflection. What excites me is not particularly helpful with understanding what excites your wife, given the different factors above that influence arousal. This is why I suggested considering her responses to your sexual moments, as indication of what creates that feeling within her, and expand on those elements in flirtation.

In saying this, I’m happy to give an example of flirtation and build-up that was fun between my husband and I, that I have previously shared here. In knowing that my husband would dig the anticipation and being subtly teased at the thought of what he was going to find each day. I bought an advent calendar with little wooden doors to open and place your own treats inside. Hubs saw it and with raised eyebrow, asked, ‘What are you planning on putting in there?’ I told him he’d have to wait and see. Inside I placed a note/action of the intimate kind every day for him to discover. One that I'm willing to share, was a simple slow dance in our living room with a make-shift dance-floor. After a few songs we stopped dancing, and just stood kissing, then flirted our way to the bedroom. Recently I was moving stuff from a cupboard, and the advent calendar was out on the side. His eyes twinkled at the sight of it… but I was just cleaning the cupboard haha. 

The main points I’ve picked up from your thread are that you and your wife enjoy regular sex together, you said you know her well but there seems a disconnect with knowing her sexuality, she wants you to take the lead, and has low interest in figuring out what turns her on, yet you feel aligned in desire and have both figured out what works for you. And this is where my question stems from, of whether it is important to her to feel a build-up and excitement – or what you are trying to resolve? Maybe like the advent calendar, it's for shared kicks and giggles and connection.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> [MENTION=58060]I will state the my wife and I are completely comfortable with what we are doing. Commenting on TAM; not so much.


Why is commenting on TAM making you feel uncomfortable?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is great, the calendar - priceless. 




heartsbeating said:


> I appreciate that you're considering how you come across in type - without body language and tone, I can find it tricky myself. I'm a lot more approachable in person!
> 
> If you want to spark arousal, there’s nothing sexier than the limbic system, the cerebral cortex, and neurotransmitters. No doubt just reading those words will get motors running! …while I kid, the point is that the brain is the biggest sexual organ. Along with the brain are our senses. The type and intensity of touch and kissing can vary, and that’s where the script of the relationship dynamic, along with sociocultural, biological and psychological elements can determine whether or not a certain approach is sexually arousing. The visual, sense of smell and pheromones, sound, and taste are all factors of arousal to be explored too.
> 
> ...


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

badsanta said:


> The very first thing I learned on TAM was that wives (most) often grow to resent husbands that try every trick in the book to ramp up her desire levels. ......
> 
> Cheers,
> Badsanta


Badsanta, If my wife grows to resent me for a choice that she made without talking about changing her choice. That is her mistake and she needs to figure out how to solve it.

Thanks for sharing your tips. To be honest my relationship is not anywhere near a 'gridlock', so your ideas don't resonate with me.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I'm a woman and I'm not sure how to turn a woman on. 

We are kinda the same, but very different in wants and needs.

One of my best friends gets aroused by getting flowers, a romantic dinner, a massage, candles, etc., etc. I think that's boring.

I get aroused by having a meaningful conversations, the nerdier the better. I need to connect in an intellectual way before connecting in a physical way. 

Talking about sex is a turn off for me. I like the hands on discovery before and during, without talking about it. I get distracted if I talk during sex!!! It's funny but it's true. 

My sense of arousal changes depending on the day of my monthly cycle. I'm very sensitive to hormonal changes, and my body and brain knows it.

Things that get me excited; it could be a look, a funny joke, a light grab of my butt or boob. A hug and a kiss from behind. 

Watching my husband play with our kids is a turn on. 

I love his smell. 

It would be a turn off if my husband had to ask in a forum how to turn me on. 

We are all different. I don't know what else to say.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

moon7 said:


> @leftfield
> 
> 
> Thats the thing:
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree on this one. My wife is not one of the women that love this.

My wife does not care for sweet nothings whispered in her ear, but that may change in the future. It has only been in the last year or so that we say much of anything to each other during an event. She used to complain that she found it distracting. Now she seems to be responding to it some. 

You are right that she really likes certain spots of her neck kissed. Interestingly, she guards her neck like no ones business. If I even try to linger in one spot for a few seconds she lets me know that its not OK. Trying to kiss her neck is a very interesting and frustrating dance, but I do alright.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> The main points I’ve picked up from your thread are that you and your wife enjoy regular sex together, you said you know her well but there seems a disconnect with knowing her sexuality, she wants you to take the lead, and has low interest in figuring out what turns her on, yet you feel aligned in desire and have both figured out what works for you. And this is where my question stems from, of whether it is important to her to feel a build-up and excitement – or what you are trying to resolve? Maybe like the advent calendar, it's for shared kicks and giggles and connection.


We are not trying to resolve anything. We are utilizing open, honest and effective communication. In this case I brought up a topic that interested me. We discussed it. We agreed that it was a topic of interest for both of us. We agreed that it was something that we would explore. With me doing the heavy lifting. Out of every sexual topic I have ever brought up with her, this one went from lets talk about xyz to lets try xyz far faster than any other (orders of magnitude faster; difference of days vs minutes). It even happened without any compromise and dang near zero discussion. She was into it from the get go. To me that shows interest (I'm sure someone will disagree).

You asked why trying to communicate on TAM is making me uncomfortable. I have a different perspective than the TAM members, because I have talked with my wife and effectively communicated on this topic. Therefor, when commenters infer that what has been clearly communicated with my wife has not happened, or is wrong or is invalid, it comes across as: you don't know how to talk to her, you aren't capable of it and even if you do talk to her you suck at it. It is really difficult to try and respond.

Anyways, it is easier and more polite to just admit: it is uncomfortable to post here.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I think the internet, especially, but before that, sexy magazines like Playboy and Penthouse, with articles about sexual topics, gave men especially, ideas that other guys were having sexual experiences that the reader was supposed to be having also.

I know my husband has brought this up in conversations we've had about how we first learned about sexual activities between a man and woman. 

Sometimes, I really hate those articles and all the talk and all the porn crap.

I would love to just have a great experience with my husband without having to do all these contortions I feel like we've been told make sex "better" and "great" and "wild" - like...we're "missing out" if we don't do these things.

Let me tell you - I have fantastic damn orgasms - the best I've ever had in my life even as an older woman. 

What bothers me is when my husband feels like he has to do something that just doesn't feel that authentic to him. I just want him to be himself - just do and think and say whatever he is into at the moment...not try to go, "Oh, I'm going to try this thing I read in this article once" I feel like when that happens, things get awkward. 

Setting dangerous deviancies aside (sorry I have to say something so obvious), being genuine sexually is a form of human expression that is very fulfilling. I'm great with having sex with my husband to the point where if he touches me even one more time I'm going to fly off the bed because I got so fully satisfied that I can't handle even an iota more of stimulation. I don't need Playboy, Penthouse or porn videos to give me that experience. I just need my husband genuinely involved and touching me in a way that shows he is out of his mind turned on having me in his arms.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

leftfield said:


> My wife does not care for sweet nothings whispered in her ear, but that may change in the future. It has only been in the last year or so that we say much of anything to each other during an event. She used to complain that she found it distracting. Now she seems to be responding to it some.


During the "deed" it can be very distracting and even stop her from getting an orgasm. To whisper during the deed you have to know her "kink" and timing better. So thats not what I meant, a meant whispering while guissing-gropping-making out. 



leftfield said:


> You are right that she really likes certain spots of her neck kissed. Interestingly, she guards her neck like no ones business. If I even try to linger in one spot for a few seconds she lets me know that its not OK. Trying to kiss her neck is a very interesting and frustrating dance, but I do alright.


Of course it tickles and she will guard it, its her neck after all. But through repetition (trying slightly changes) you will find her pace-timing-pressure-teeth-position right, because it changes from person to person and then it will feel way more exciting than tickl-ish.

But tickle is good and fun, and intimacy is supposed to be fun, not only focusing in releasing all the time. Super focus on orgasm is too "responsible" and "right" and can become stressful. I'm not really sure, but I have the impression that we need the fun and the play and the light mood (of trickles maybe?) to open up to learn, otherwise we tend to only repeat what always work to release, taking away the joy and lightheart of the moment.

"Attack" her neck during kissing-making out will make you a master faster, because if during the "deed" she is close to orgasm and you tickle her out of nowhere (distracting her) SHE WILL BE PISSED OFF, but if she is close to orgasm and you attack her neck in her perfect way i bet she will want a repeat.

Attention: perfect rhythm is not synonym of fast.

Nobody is born a Don Juan, dont give up! And dont feel ashamed to ask for guidding from your own wife.

Look, its my opinion and if it doesnt work with both of you im really sorry.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Pasta,
This is really good. You have a lot of overlap with M2. 

M2 had her first annual review coming up and wanted a good raise. She’s very good at what she does - and I suggested a strategy. She liked it. I Ghost wrote an email that emphasized three contributions she’d made during the year. Anyway, she followed the strategy which resulted in her boss asking for the email and forwarding it to the head of HR. She got a great raise and came home and was all over me. 




pastasauce79 said:


> I'm a woman and I'm not sure how to turn a woman on.
> 
> We are kinda the same, but very different in wants and needs.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Santa,
I am confident that everyone on here interpreted the description of her silence plus crying in a similar manner. 

When someone is decades into a marriage - and opens a thread by describing the results of their attempts to talk about sex in that way - gets a similar reaction from the TAM community. 






badsanta said:


> In my defense, I did say her crying could be nothing. Everyone on TAM also enjoys projecting their own problems onto each other as well. I try my best to be self aware of that.
> 
> I so want to focus on her "no reason" for crying and make something out of that. I'm conjuring up visions of this coworker I had that used to cry at her desk almost everyday. Usually in the mornings just after arriving to work. In her case her significant other could not keep a job and what little bit of money he earned was immediately spent hanging out with his pals at the bar drinking and shooting pool until she got off work.
> 
> ...


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

moon7 said:


> During the "deed" it can be very distracting and even stop her from getting an orgasm. To whisper during the deed you have to know her "kink" and timing better. So thats not what I meant, a meant whispering while guissing-gropping-making out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a friend who doesn't like her nipples touched, which she warns partners up front. A guy touches her nipples, game over right away.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Santa,
> I am confident that everyone on here interpreted the description of her silence plus crying in a similar manner.
> 
> When someone is decades into a marriage - and opens a thread by describing the results of their attempts to talk about sex in that way - gets a similar reaction from the TAM community.



Agreed, that is why I told badsanta that I should not have included that in my original post. I have made plenty of mistakes sharing the wrong information in the wrong way. As I mentioned in my post to InMyPrime, I thought that it was a good idea to give some background information when I started this thread. If it was a good idea, it should have been shared differently.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@MEM2020; I achieved results by following the suggestions in this thread. We had most of a weekend just to the two of us. So I decided to take some suggestions from this thread and be bold and do what I like. If it didn't work, I moved on. She happily wore what I asked her to and she responded to my flirty comments. Her cycle helped me out that weekend. 

@heartsbeating, Thank you for reminding me that the brain is the largest sex organ. It is really hard to get my wife to engage her brain. She has trained herself to shut down/ limit any sexual thoughts. So, I have my work cut out for me. I really like your story about the advent calendar. It's not surprising that your husband really liked that. For something like that to work for my wife, I need to figure out what will build anticipation for her. The only thing that I know of right now is for me to make plans and follow through with them. When I let her know early in the day what I intend to do, she always seems to be ready when we get the chance. I am confident that there is more nuance in there that would help build up her anticipation. I hope to figure out more of that.

@pastasauce, great comment. Lots of truth in it.

@moon7, she is guarding her neck from the possibility of hickeys not because it tickles.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

@Happiness, thank you for your great comment. Learning something new does not mean that it is unauthentic.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

leftfield said:


> We are not trying to resolve anything. We are utilizing open, honest and effective communication. In this case I brought up a topic that interested me. We discussed it. We agreed that it was a topic of interest for both of us. We agreed that it was something that we would explore. With me doing the heavy lifting. Out of every sexual topic I have ever brought up with her, this one went from lets talk about xyz to lets try xyz far faster than any other (orders of magnitude faster; difference of days vs minutes). It even happened without any compromise and dang near zero discussion. She was into it from the get go. To me that shows interest (I'm sure someone will disagree).
> 
> You asked why trying to communicate on TAM is making me uncomfortable. I have a different perspective than the TAM members, because I have talked with my wife and effectively communicated on this topic. Therefor, when commenters infer that what has been clearly communicated with my wife has not happened, or is wrong or is invalid, it comes across as: you don't know how to talk to her, you aren't capable of it and even if you do talk to her you suck at it. It is really difficult to try and respond.
> 
> Anyways, it is easier and more polite to just admit: it is uncomfortable to post here.


As far as discomfort in posting - sometimes TAM can give off a hostile vibe, which is the nature of the internet and wildly varied perceptions, etc. There's been times I've felt very attacked - people seem to forget they are communicating with a living breathing human - and we are often here because we are exploring a painful couples experience. Some of the members take the time to get to know each other, listen and empathize more so you kind of get the idea who is sort of your friend who is just there to give you a nudge in the right direction and who isn't.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

pastasauce79 said:


> Talking about sex is a turn off for me.


and


> It would be a turn off if my husband had to ask in a forum how to turn me on.


I’m trying to put these two ideas together.

It’s a turn off for him to talk about sex with you and it’s a turn off if he went to others to get advice on how to turn you on.

How should he know how to turn you on?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Marduk said:


> and
> 
> 
> I’m trying to put these two ideas together.
> ...


ESP, Clairvoyance, .....

You see, if he really is her soul mate, he will know all he needs to know completely intuitively. No talking necessary. If you have to ask, you're not the right guy for her....:scratchhead:


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

It annoys me to get a slap on the butt. I'm sorry - but I'm feeling all hot and bothered and then get a smack like they do in the porn videos, which is just stupid to me, and, I'm, like, what are we doing now? Debbie Does Dishes or ????? This isn't the 80s.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

If you were going to say to H what a good sexual romp would consist of for you, what would the components of favorite actions consist of? Have you shared in clear terms with him?

It sounds like there's talking but perhaps limited listening on his part. Does H retain things you may have shared, for the next go round?

It may take pretending a couple times that what he's doing for you is for you and not just him to get to his O. A couple sessions pretending he's focusing on you may reveal he is or isn't. 

Kind of an experiment. 

Or you may have already done these things which may be added reasoning for frustrations. Just a thought. 👍


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If you were going to say to H what a good sexual romp would consist of for you, what would the components of favorite actions consist of? Have you shared in clear terms with him?
> 
> It sounds like there's talking but perhaps limited listening on his part. Does H retain things you may have shared, for the next go round?
> 
> ...


Yes, I've "shared in clear terms with him" - so, your last sentence is absolutely correct.

What we haven't been able to discover past "I'm just a selfish pr*ck" is why he has continually spent our relationship cruising for something better.

We might just be a mismatch in that regard. Once I hone in on a partner, that's my partner. I don't get side-tracked by something else. I had my fun dating around if you want to call it fun. It was mostly stupid. I could probably do a couple of seasons of a comedy series on what happened there. 

So, I like him a lot, have a lot in common with him, like having sex with him - he's my focus. But his mind wanders off on a regular basis to obsess with some other chick in fantasy land - and that's always something different than what he has with me. I can tell when he gets distracted. Right now, it's some chick at the upcoming class reunion. 

I've got no where else to go for sex - I don't find self-play as sexually enjoyable and I'm not into fooling around. So, I have to wait until he decides to come back, whenever that will be. It's been going on for several months. The reunion is in about 3 weeks. Maybe he'll get over it after that. Right now, he's trying to act like he's interested in me. Part of the problem may be that I don't care to have sex with someone who isn't into me. When I was single, I could just walk away. When you're in a marriage, you can't.

If I was younger, I'd probably move on. But, at this point, it just is what it is.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Marduk said:


> and
> 
> 
> I’m trying to put these two ideas together.
> ...


I didn't mean we never talk about sex. My "problem" is that I cannot talk while having sex. I believe it's a personal thing. I get distracted if I talk. Sometimes I can't even have music or the TV on. It's an auditory sensory thing... :|

I wouldn't like my husband asking for advice on how turn me on. That's because I can tell him how. I realize that OP's wife is not open or comfortable enough to share her wishes. 

My opinions or experiences might not be helpful at all in the OP's circumstances.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

happiness27 said:


> It annoys me to get a slap on the butt. I'm sorry - but I'm feeling all hot and bothered and then get a smack like they do in the porn videos, which is just stupid to me, and, I'm, like, what are we doing now? Debbie Does Dishes or ????? This isn't the 80s.


Hahaha. So there are people who doesnt like it. Im sorry if you dont. Maybe thats a latino-something. I dont personaly know anyone who complains about it.

Ps: its not a porno nor 50 shades of grey slap, just a weak slap. Its so common i even see people soing it once in awhile.

Ps: i didnt watch 50 shades but im assuming it has slaps. Correct me if im wrong.

Ps: but my aunts watched 50 shades and said their sex were boring af and the guy was gay-ish. Idk, i just remembered this writing this LOL


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I didn't mean we never talk about sex. My "problem" is that I cannot talk while having sex. I believe it's a personal thing. I get distracted if I talk. Sometimes I can't even have music or the TV on. It's an auditory sensory thing... :|
> 
> I wouldn't like my husband asking for advice on how turn me on. That's because I can tell him how. I realize that OP's wife is not open or comfortable enough to share her wishes.
> 
> My opinions or experiences might not be helpful at all in the OP's circumstances.


I'm tracking much better now. Thanks for the clarification.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

moon7 said:


> Hahaha. So there are people who doesnt like it. Im sorry if you dont. Maybe thats a latino-something. I dont personaly know anyone who complains about it.
> 
> Ps: its not a porno nor 50 shades of grey slap, just a weak slap. Its so common i even see people soing it once in awhile.
> 
> ...


I should have clarified - that was the thought that went through my head. I have a snarky sense of humor that a lot of times isn't based in any fact - it's just intended to to get a laugh. Humor can be cutting, biting and edgy. I absolutely did not intend to give anyone else a hard time who likes to give or receive slaps. If that's an interaction that some couples find to be expected and a part of their sex life, it certainly isn't any of my business and I'm not judging other people for it.

What I was saying (and trying to get a laugh - tough audience...) For me and my partner, a slap is not a normal-regular-expected interaction. So, what happened there is that it felt more like a mimic of something he had seen in porn, which is what the heck we are trying to get away from.

The reason for not wanting to mimic the porn is that - and this is just my belief - I prefer it when a sex partner behaves genuinely in bed. To me, it's more of a turn on when I get genuine reactions than if my partner is fake ooooh-ing and ahhhh-ing - or slapping me on the butt.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> Yes, I've "shared in clear terms with him" - so, your last sentence is absolutely correct.
> 
> What we haven't been able to discover past "I'm just a selfish pr*ck" is why he has continually spent our relationship cruising for something better.
> 
> ...


I don't know about H, but one of the things constants when DW and I fool around is I always keep my eyes open and pay attention and appreciate what's happening, and looking at all her over, and her nibbly parts etc, back, front, eyes, top, when shes doing me, just never have been one to close my eyes.

She closes her eyes here and there, which I've always considered normal, it's nothing to me, and our game is she pops them open, says "just checking" to try and catch me with closed eyes, because I never close them but she tries to catch me.

I just love what's going on, start to finish, and she loves that fact.

Maybe something to try, every one keeps eyes open.

I'm a believer that's at least part of our success.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I don't know about H, but one of the things constants when DW and I fool around is I always keep my eyes open and pay attention and appreciate what's happening, and looking at all her over, and her nibbly parts etc, back, front, eyes, top, when shes doing me, just never have been one to close my eyes.
> 
> She closes her eyes here and there, which I've always considered normal, it's nothing to me, and our game is she pops them open, says "just checking" to try and catch me with closed eyes, because I never close them but she tries to catch me.
> 
> ...


Yes, we do that. I find him hot to look at, I even wish we had mirrors on the ceiling because I love that view - that would be so hot.

The problem right now, though, is that he's hot for someone else at the moment and he's struggling to get his mind back on me. 

To be fair, I've forced a conversation recently which has made him admit that he wants to screw another woman. Now that it's out in the open, I think it's messing with both of our heads. I don't feel very confident and I think he feels ashamed. It's a messy situation at the moment. I don't know how to fix it. I'm glad to get out of the way if he wants to pursue that - but I think he's afraid that the price to pay would be losing his relationship with me. 

Well...mmmm...yeah - unless her and husband swing. I don't know. I've never done that but that's the only solution I can think of.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

pastasauce79 said:


> I realize that OP's wife is not open or comfortable enough to share her wishes.
> 
> My opinions or experiences might not be helpful at all in the OP's circumstances.


Just to clarify; my wife is comfortable and open about what she likes. Lack of openness and comfort are not what caused me to ask someone else. In fact it is because we are open and comfortable with each other we are able to explore this topic. 

The reason she does not answer is because she just does not know. She does not have the experience to have learned. And I doubt she ever sat down and had the thought; 'what turns me on'. This is essentially a brand new topic (that might seem silly to others, but it is accurate). When we discussed the topic I asked her; if she was single and dating do you think some men would be able to excite you and get you going. And she said yes, but she had absolutely no idea what things would get this reaction. She feels open and comfortable enough to tell me that in different circumstances other men would be able to get a response from her. (AAAAHHHHH, I can already see 3 different ways that this will be dissected)

Some of what you have shared has been insightful, and some has not been. I do appreciate what you have shared.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

duplicate


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

happiness27 said:


> As far as discomfort in posting - sometimes TAM can give off a hostile vibe, which is the nature of the internet and wildly varied perceptions, etc. There's been times I've felt very attacked - people seem to forget they are communicating with a living breathing human - and we are often here because we are exploring a painful couples experience. Some of the members take the time to get to know each other, listen and empathize more so you kind of get the idea who is sort of your friend who is just there to give you a nudge in the right direction and who isn't.


Thank you for sharing. You are correct that communication on the internet is a challenge. Developing that as a skill is one of the reasons I decided to start posting.

In this particular thread, my communication was a good chunk of the problem. That does not change the fact that some responses projected a lot onto this situation.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It does sound like the relationship would greatly benefit by H getting his head back in the game as the most obvious solution.

H may benefit by realizing he's not the only husband in the world that has thoughts time to time about sleeping with other women in fleeting, passing thoughts. 

But real men with "the whole package" at home quickly realize they had a couple second fantasy and move on. 

It's no contest at all. W remains the true fantasy. 

A man realizes there will never be a time when he'll see other attractive women, walking by, wherever, from beach biking to tight skirt or jeans in a grocery store and time to time, not always, but here and there will visually appreciate another female form for a couple seconds. 

But that never reaches past fleeting appreciation and doesn't take root. It's impossible not to see other women in the day to day world but a man just never puts an aberrant thought in front of thoughts of his W.

A real man has the whole package of his chosen W, and that relationship trumps all. 

For me and DW, and this may sound old school or sexist but I'm ok with that; she's mine. I own her in ways others will never know. And I'm responsible for and accept that responsibility to do my part in keeping her safe, cared for, and where she knows she's appreciated. And highly sexed. And she loves these things and for whatever reason loves me.

I don't keep her on a pedestal, I treat her like a real flesh and blood woman, my woman. She's no angel. But neither am I. 

And I always support her in whatever goals she has, and believe she can do anything she sets her mind to.

Long story short; there will always be millions of other pretty women in the world but that's reality and it's nothing to be amazed over. 

A H should like as well as love his W and spend time during the day thinking of different ways to take her. (yes, I did say "take her" )


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Leftfield quoted: You are right that she really likes certain spots of her neck kissed. Interestingly, she guards her neck like no ones business. If I even try to linger in one spot for a few seconds she lets me know that its not OK. Trying to kiss her neck is a very interesting and frustrating dance, but I do alright end quote....

Now the caveman in me see's it this way, the neck area is by all standards a person's most protected. Why it offers the life line to survival basics air, blood, speech, and intake of fulfilllment products. And protection of ones life is the reason. Now if at any point with your partner and performing said act and she allows you to caress, rub, kiss, nibble, smell. Well guess what unspoken, she into what your doing at the time. 

Take note, and put it in the file to be a want card for the future. Not that it will be like that everytime but is and will be something to use when and if in combination with the moment something is needed. 

The exposures to her neck, is a protection trait, which opens her up to be vunerable and exposed at a time of intimacy. 

But lions, dogs, who are fighting go for the throat.
I know this is a long way around of saying why she is standoffish, but just a mental note to oneself. And if allowed to breach the area during you love making do note it and compliment her afterwards of this if you do talk and this may allow her some liberation from her emotions of anguish.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> I have read and read and read some more about sexual experience/ intimacy. One thing I have taken to heart is the idea that each person needs to learn to be a great lover, it does not come natural to most. In this thread I hope to learn more about turning a woman on.


I purposely went back to your opening post to reread. This isn't a specific suggestion, more of a thought to be considered, is that it's important to know about _yourself_ - what your flirtation style is, and what is seductive about _you_. Be aware (without being self-conscious) of why people are drawn to you; what is congruent with your character. Recognizing this, then look outwards to focus on your wife, be attentive, learn what makes her tick... and the ultimate seduction is this isn't just occurring in and around the bedroom, this becomes a state of being in your dynamic between you. 

I hesitate in this thread with how I perceive your words around your wife, including the most recent post. My intention is not to cause you to feel discomfort or defensiveness, so I am not asking further questions around this. I will, however, leave you with the above thought and wish you both the best on this journey.


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