# What does the term Alpha Male mean to You?:cool:



## krismimo

Hello gentlemen,

I would like to know when you hear the term Alpha Male what does that mean to you? (I'm a woman) And do you consider yourself an Alpha Male? I ask because looking back I think I had a misconception of what it means I think there still is a huge misconception about the term. If you asked me a year ago I probably would have said a a**hole jock but to me that is bully, to me it is someone who is assertive and confident in himself although he can be nice and kind he is not a pushover either. I'm curious from a man's perspective what it means to you. Thanks in advance for reading this.

Kris.


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## Caribbean Man

An Alpha Male in this time of mediocre men is simply a man who has his game under control ,knows exactly what he wants and goes for it.
He doesn't waste time on what people think or say.
He just achieves what he set out to do.


Alpha male in youth is entirely different to an Alpha male who has achieved a certain status or rank in society.


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## krismimo

Caribbean Man said:


> An Alpha Male in this time of mediocre men is simply a man who has his game under control ,knows exactly what he wants and goes for it.
> He doesn't waste time on what people think or say.
> He just achieves what he set out to do.
> 
> 
> Alpha male in youth is entirely different to an Alpha male who has achieved a certain status or rank in society.




I understand the first part of what your saying but please elaborate the difference between youth and society?


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## bandit.45

Me.


:rofl:


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## krismimo

Bandit do I need to spank you? No Lists!! LOL in words some basic descriptions. LOL


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## rj700

To me, alpha is the ability to take charge and lead when that is what is required. But you're also confident enough to go with the flow when YOU decide that is the best course. You're confident enough to make decisions, but you don't make decisions in a vacuum. And you're strong enough to accept responsibility when your decision doesn't produce the desired result and make adjustments accordingly.


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## Caribbean Man

krismimo said:


> I understand the first part of what your saying but please elaborate the difference between youth and society?


In youth, the characteristics that define Alpha Male if physical size , looks etc. That's why they are the ones you called " a$$hole jocks ."
These types very seldom mature and usually turn out to be the losers with child support cases, prison record and some sort of addiction in real life. IMO.

In the real worldl, the characteristics of Alpha is wealth and power.


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## the guy

Professionally speaking the alpha male makes the disicions and tells other what to do.

Sexually speaking the alpha goes 1st in the gang bang.

In a marriage....now thats a little more complicated. I think being calm, firm and desicieve is were its at. A man that commands respect by nowing what he wants by having clear and nonnegotiating boundries. Excepting the consequence when he should have went left instead of turning right.

That and killing spiders for my wife.


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## rj700

the guy said:


> That and killing spiders for my wife.


:rofl:


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## bandit.45

An alpha male is a man who treats every person in his perview with respect and dignity, and then expects the same in return. 

If this respect is not returned in kind, he defends his honor with venom.


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## krismimo

So far all interesting views, now my next question is do you consider yourself a alpha male?


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## rj700

krismimo said:


> So far all interesting views, now my next question is do you consider yourself a alpha male?


No. I consider myself *THE *alpha male


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## the guy

bandit.45 said:


> An alpha male is a man who treats every person in his perview with respect and dignity, and then expects the same in return.
> 
> If this respect is not returned in kind, he defends his honor with venom.


An excellent way to define "commanding respect"

Well said sir, well said!


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## that_girl

A cowboy. lol.  Calm and steady, and a little fire in the belly.


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## bandit.45

In theory yes, in practice not always.....


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## the guy

Ya for sure now a days.

Back in the day when I used to push my wife around I thought I was being an alph male....how wrong was I!!

Having the control I now have and the life lessons one learns at 46 yrs old, I can say that I am an alpha male.

But I maybe be lossing this title cuz my wife spotted a snake in the yard and wants me to track it down and kill it....I hate snakes!

Even more, I miss my bestest dog Buster who had things like this all under control a few years ago.

Anyway even with ol'd Buster gone I no longer have to fight for the alpha male spot in my home. LOL


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## COguy

krismimo said:


> to me it is someone who is assertive and confident in himself although he can be *nice and kind* he is not a pushover either.


I don't think kindness and niceness are traits of an "alpha male", I think they are beta male traits or traits of a caring person.

Being alpha to me is just about confidence and assertiveness, the ability to lead.

Being beta is about caring, kindness, commitment, dependability.

Do I consider myself an "alpha male"? No. I would say that I am confident in my character and am not afraid to lead people, but I am also caring and kind and a caretaker type.

Honestly, I don't care if I'm an "alpha male", I think I have a great combination of alpha and beta traits that makes me an awesome potential mate. I'm working on being a little MORE assertive, because I think being in my marriage kind of hurt my confidence a little, but I'm not going to compromise my character or integrity just to pick up girls. I say that because many guys go "bad boy alpha" just to pick up girls at the bar, which is not something that appeals to me.


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## the guy

COguy said:


> I don't think kindness and niceness are traits of an "alpha male", I think they are beta male traits or traits of a caring person.
> 
> Being alpha to me is just about confidence and assertiveness, the ability to lead.
> 
> Being beta is about caring, kindness, commitment, dependability.
> 
> Do I consider myself an "alpha male"? No. I would say that I am confident in my character and am not afraid to lead people, but I am also caring and kind and a caretaker type.
> 
> Honestly, I don't care if I'm an "alpha male", I think I have a great combination of alpha and beta traits that makes me an awesome potential mate. I'm working on being a little MORE assertive, because I think being in my marriage kind of hurt my confidence a little, but I'm not going to compromise my character or integrity just to pick up girls. I say that because many guys go "bad boy alpha" just to pick up girls at the bar, which is not something that appeals to me.


But wait! I'm just trying to kill spiders and snakes around the house.....picking up chicks was the furthest thing from my mind.


Well..............maybe the gang bang comment had me thinking out side the boxs, but thats just how I'm wired.


In all seriousness, COguy has some real points that need to be brought up. 

Especially since my history of being alph was as about as beta as you can get.


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## Caribbean Man

krismimo said:


> So far all interesting views, now my next question is do you consider yourself a alpha male?


Well I am not in ANY group,, but I'm definitely the Alpha in charge of my marriage / life.

Marital problems.............................No
Problems getting laid......................Never
Financial Problems...........................No
Employed........................................No
Employer.........................................Yes
Own Property..................................Yes
Own Business.................................Yes
Own Real Estate.............................Yes
Health problems...............................No
Pot Belly...........................................No
Man Boobs.......................................No
ED....................................................No
Desired............................................Yes
Respected........................................Yes [ can't be successful without it!]
Takes Disrespect..............................No
Gives Respect...................................Yes
Gives a shyt......................................No way!

I think the only thing missing there is power. But I'm working on it


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## Deejo

Why do you ask?


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## krismimo

@Deejo I was curious to see how men see themselves I figured it would be easier to ask it in a general way, I notice that every response varies and no two answers are alike.


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## krismimo

@Coguy you do bring up some interesting points about having the combination of certain traits. And the reason why I said the nice and kind remark is because I was trying to assert that just because you may have alpha male traits does not mean you HAVE to be a hard a** all the time. I think and I could be wrong, it's about having that balance.


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## RandomDude

Old Spice | The Man Your Man Could Smell Like - YouTube

:rofl:


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## Deejo

Was curious if you were looking to apply the feedback in terms of your relationship.

There are undoubtedly different kinds of 'Alpha'.

Importantly, the connotation isn't always positive. Prisons are overflowing with 'Alpha' males. 

In terms of navigating relationships, we have talked about this on more than a few occasions. Athol sums it up perfectly in his book, and without reservation, I can say that we were having those conversations here at the time he was writing it.
It's a scale. The males best suited to successful, long term, fulfilling relationships are the ones that are aware that it's a scale, and know when the scale must be adjusted to maintain balance, and importantly, attraction.


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## krismimo

@Deejo very true I guess it is what you make of it. What also made me ask this question is because I have seen some references to some books and I have read a few discussions about it. I'm just a curious person by nature and since I don't have the umm proper equipment I can't talk about something that I don't know much about and I like to know these things just for me if you don't know something you ask. I appreciate all of your input guys really opened my eyes to some things.


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## Caribbean Man

RandomDude said:


> Old Spice | The Man Your Man Could Smell Like - YouTube
> 
> :rofl:


Geeez,
Old Spice?

I haven't worn that since i was like 12 yrs old!

guys still use that?


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## krismimo

LOL my husband uses it! But he smells good and the commercials are awesome!


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## COguy

Caribbean Man said:


> Geeez,
> Old Spice?
> 
> I haven't worn that since i was like 12 yrs old!
> 
> guys still use that?


Heck yes they do. The ladies love it. Way more sophisticated than that Axe crap.


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## WyshIknew

krismimo said:


> So far all interesting views, now my next question is do you consider yourself a alpha male?


No.

I am definitely by nature/nurture a beta person but the school of hard knocks has taught me to become a little more alpha.

I am much happier now, and so is my wife, for me to lead our ship with her support and backing.

Interestingly she asked me recently to stop reading MMSL and NMMNG as she didn't want me any more alpha and was worried it would turn me into a bully. She likes the soft, sentimental guy who adores her. I explained that I would still be that man, the man who cooks, helps around the house and loves her to bits, but with a more decisive, harder edge.
Beside which, I don't know if it is MMSL that has done it but we seem to have slipped into Jedi mind trick sex from an ok/good sexual relationship and I am not stopping that!


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## anotherguy

Alpha male?

OK. I'll bite. 

In the broken colloquial vernacular of this board and the assorted 'self-help' methodologies (snake oil, that is) frequently peddled here, it is a self imposed moniker of importance that wannabe narcissistic d1cks attach to themselves. An anachronistic holdover from pack mentality and military tactics at which they grasp, harpy-like, at machismo in their desire to get sex and alter the conditions of the relationship 'game'. To make themselves 'more attractive' by pretending to be something they are not, and implimenting a transaction based system to try and fix a crappy relationship... or again.. to simply get laid.

Thats it. I'll quote 'the guy' because his illustration suits me - but just about everyone on this board that is an acolyte of this garbage expresses similar points of view. 



the guy said:


> Professionally speaking the alpha male makes the disicions and tells other what to do.
> Sexually speaking the alpha goes 1st in the gang bang.


Yep.



the guy said:


> In a marriage....now thats a little more complicated.


No. Its not.

One small part of my problem with all of this is exactly that. Its not like the term 'alpha male' is some vague expression where it means something different at your discression. That is also the hallmark of the pseudo scientific self-help crap that preaches all of this. People who (I choose to believe, admittedly) are more likely to be doing added damage to their relationships with these tactics than not. 

Perhaps the 'alpha' 'omega' (beta, gamma, etc) terminology, though horribly sloppy since it means 'first' and 'last', 'dominant' and 'sumbissive' can be used to hammer home certain ideas to men with confidence problems - but I have read some of the BS in the program - and it really is just that - warm, soft, steaming BS. Blow me and only then will I cut the grass. How nice your relationship is now! How I envy it! (not) 

It is what it is. Backpeddaling or attempting to reframe it to make it a kinder, gentler 'alpha male' in your mind just because it suits your argument does not make you right. It makes you ignorant.

http://www.sociology.org/columnists/michael-sosteric/ding-dong-the-alpha-male-is-dead/ 

On the Hysteria that Defines the Contemporary “Alpha Male” | Welmer

If you are serious about it, and curious about what alpha male really means... take a peek at this.

http://luptaanticapitalista.files.w...e-prehistoric-origins-of-modern-sexuality.pdf

etc:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21698660/abstract
http://www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf 

Its (partly) about how alpha males will kill the offspring of a newly found mate to ensure his genes are the ones carried forward etc. But its also important to note that the 'alpha male' in nature is also mostly mythology (see first link above, and last PDF). To me - the entire 'alpha male' hierarchy is a total joke - a ham-handed misconception - and utterly disassociated from the simple 'confidence' that is seen (correctly) as a positive attribute. Nevermind the completely bankrupt (in my view) tit-for-tat foundation for a relationship that this mindset strives for. If it works for you, I must sigh and say 'good for you', but since you are all my brothers and sisters - I wish better for you. 

but - thats just me. 

guys - all in fun - I enjoy being persuaded to another point of view - but words like 'alpha male' matter. *especially* on discussion forums where words are all there is.




the guy said:


> ..That and killing spiders for my wife...


 _*good one! *_


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## Deejo

anotherguy said:


> Alpha male?
> 
> OK. I'll bite.
> 
> In the broken colloquial vernacular of this board and the assorted 'self-help' methodologies (snake oil, that is) frequently peddled here, it is a self imposed moniker of importance that wannabe narcissistic d1cks attach to themselves. An anachronistic holdover from pack mentality and military tactics at which they grasp, harpy-like, at machismo in their desire to get sex and alter the conditions of the relationship 'game'. To make themselves 'more attractive' by pretending to be something they are not, and implimenting a transaction based system to try and fix a crappy relationship... or again.. to simply get laid.
> 
> Thats it. I'll quote 'the guy' because his illustration suits me - but just about everyone on this board that is an acolyte of this garbage expresses similar points of view.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Its not.
> 
> One small part of my problem with all of this is exactly that. Its not like the term 'alpha male' is some vague expression where it means something different at your discression. That is also the hallmark of the pseudo scientific self-help crap that preaches all of this. People who (I choose to believe, admittedly) are more likely to be doing added damage to their relationships with these tactics than not.
> 
> Perhaps the 'alpha' 'omega' (beta, gamma, etc) terminology, though horribly sloppy since it means 'first' and 'last', 'dominant' and 'sumbissive' can be used to hammer home certain ideas to men with confidence problems - but I have read some of the BS in the program - and it really is just that - warm, soft, steaming BS. Blow me and only then will I cut the grass. How nice your relationship is now! How I envy it! (not)
> 
> It is what it is. Backpeddaling or attempting to reframe it to make it a kinder, gentler 'alpha male' in your mind just because it suits your argument does not make you right. It makes you ignorant.
> 
> Ding Dong the Alpha Male is Dead | The Socjournal
> 
> On the Hysteria that Defines the Contemporary “Alpha Male” | Welmer
> 
> If you are serious about it, and curious about what alpha male really means... take a peek at this.
> 
> http://luptaanticapitalista.files.w...e-prehistoric-origins-of-modern-sexuality.pdf
> 
> etc:
> Social relationships between adult females and... [Am J Primatol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
> http://www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf
> 
> Its (partly) about how alpha males will kill the offspring of a newly found mate to ensure his genes are the ones carried forward etc. But its also important to note that the 'alpha male' in nature is also mostly mythology (see first link above, and last PDF). To me - the entire 'alpha male' hierarchy is a total joke - a ham-handed misconception - and utterly disassociated from the simple 'confidence' that is seen (correctly) as a positive attribute. Nevermind the completely bankrupt (in my view) tit-for-tat foundation for a relationship that this mindset strives for. If it works for you, I must sigh and say 'good for you', but since you are all my brothers and sisters - I wish better for you.
> 
> but - thats just me.
> 
> guys - all in fun - I enjoy being persuaded to another point of view - but words like 'alpha male' matter. *especially* on discussion forums where words are all there is.
> 
> 
> _*good one! *_



Ah ... a Purist.

Kind of like a martini isn't a martini if you make it with vodka, or God forbid ... shake it because some fictional _alpha_ super spy does.

Yet, when your average joe orders a martini, odds are he expects it made with vodka, shaken with ice, and an olive plopped in the glass.

I'm not trying to be obtuse or combative. I pretty much agree.

Vernacular is required however. And yes, it does get convoluted and confusing.

But for most of the audience on this board looking for something to latch onto when struggling in a relationship and quite possibly aware that the woman they love, loves someone else ... terms like 'Alpha' or 'Man Up' are more expedient than talking about building self-awareness, self-expression, confidence, and boundaries.

It's marketing.


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## anotherguy

Deejo said:


> Ah ... a Purist.
> 
> Kind of like a martini isn't a martini if you make it with vodka, or God forbid ... shake it because some fictional _alpha_ super spy does.
> 
> Yet, when your average joe orders a martini, odds are he expects it made with vodka, shaken with ice, and an olive plopped in the glass.
> 
> I'm not trying to be obtuse or combative. I pretty much agree.
> 
> Vernacular is required however. And yes, it does get convoluted and confusing.
> 
> But for most of the audience on this board looking for something to latch onto when struggling in a relationship and quite possibly aware that the woman they love, loves someone else ... terms like 'Alpha' or 'Man Up' are more expedient than talking about building self-awareness, self-expression, confidence, and boundaries.
> 
> It's marketing.


I'll allow this. (as if I am arbiter of these things  ). I dont like it and I think it dangerously misleading, not to mention sending the wrong message. 'marketing' isnt an argument supporting a bad position, it is an excuse.

Sorry - I can be such an insufferable windbag sometimes. 

*edit* Well done. I realize suddenly I have just been defused and been played like a fiddle. Laugh.


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## Deejo

anotherguy said:


> I'll allow this. (as if I am arbiter of these things  ). I dont like it and I think it dangerously misleading, not to mention sending the wrong message.
> 
> Sorry - I can be such an insufferable windbag sometimes.
> 
> *edit* Well done. I realize suddenly I have just been defused and been played like a fiddle. Laugh.


All part of my Beta cunning ...

I openly admit that I have read, consumed, and digested all of this stuff. Yep, my unsername is attached to the sticky in the Men's Clubhouse, (pre-moderator, I'll add) But ... I make no claims based on having partaken of the snake oil.

And yes, at times I wince at some of the stumbling that guys will make in dealing with their partners, hoping to win back their favor.

But, if someone wants to change their personal circumstances, whether it is regaining the attention of the woman they love, or coming to terms with letting go of her; many of the exercises surrounding the qualities that fall under the 'Dominant' 'Alpha' umbrella can, and will benefit them.

I did very much like the article that you linked that talked about the concept of Alpha now having far more to do with approval from and by women, rather than men, which falls under the original connotation.

But I think the dudes that wrote those articles are just some dweeb bookworms that are jealous they can't score any honey-babies ...


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## anotherguy

Deejo said:


> ...But I think the dudes that wrote those articles are just some dweeb bookworms that are jealous they can't score any honey-babies ...


heh.
yeah, never trust a book. 

That reminds me of a passage from a Douglas Adams book...

_"...such generators were often used to break the ice at parties by making all the molecules in the hostess's undergarments leap simultaneously one foot to the left, in accordance with the Theory of Indeterminacy. 

Many respectable physicists said that they weren't going to stand for this - *partly because it was a debasement of science, but mostly because they didn't get invited to those sorts of parties...."*_


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## krismimo

Thank you for the links Another Guy, I will definitely read them, plus I like to read so double [email protected] thanks for summing it up in a witty and articulate sense of humor. When I asked this question it was of of curiosity and as a woman I wanted to ask about something I do not know much about I hope I didn't ask anything that is offensive nor stereotypical because that is not my intent. Thank you for all your input/opinions it has been more than insightful. 

k


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## Lon

Just kinda caught up on this thread and was piqued because of the omega thread. To me Alphas are not nice (good confident assertive men are ones that integrate traits from all the groupings of social interaction styles). Alphas are basically those whom people do what they are told to by - they command respect and obedience. Integrated men will take those leadership traits and use them for the benefit of a relationship not just the self. Atleast that's how I think of it, and I kinda roll my eyes when I see so many men aspiring to be alphas - though I think it is healthy when men lacking in alpha traits aspire to be MORE alpha (more then they currently are that is).


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## jfv

The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 1 

As a dedicated SIGMA male, here's my contribution to this thread. Good night all.


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## Entropy3000

krismimo said:


> Hello gentlemen,
> 
> I would like to know when you hear the term Alpha Male what does that mean to you? (I'm a woman) And do you consider yourself an Alpha Male? I ask because looking back I think I had a misconception of what it means I think there still is a huge misconception about the term. If you asked me a year ago I probably would have said a a**hole jock but to me that is bully, *to me it is someone who is assertive and confident in himself although he can be nice and kind he is not a pushover either.* I'm curious from a man's perspective what it means to you. Thanks in advance for reading this.
> 
> Kris.


This is what many of us aspire to. You did not describe an Alpha male. You described a man of quality and substance who has a good amount of both Alpha and Beta traits.

Pure Alphas and pure Betas are failed men. They just fail at different things. Not sure they really exist in nature. This is more conceptual.

To me a quality man is one who is Beta enough to want to save that child in the burning building but is also Alpha enough to be confident and fearless enough to do it.

A pure Alpha is too self absorbed to sacrifice himself. A Beta is too fearful to act.

Now in the professional world there are Alphas and there are AMOGS. AMOGS are Alpha Males Of The Group. I generally play the AMOG role for the projects I lead. In reality an AMOG is a leader with significant Alpha but also other skills that balance this so that they can be an effective leader.

In the PUA community the AMOG is the Alpha c0ckbl0cker. Being this AMOG is sweet actually. If your GFs and wives go out and take an AMOG, you can feel a little good that he will c0ckbl0ck ... however he is the biggest threat at the same time. FYI.

Pure Alphas have time holding a job. They do not make a good husband or father. Some women may like them to have sex with because they are viewed as the Hot Bad Boy. They are exciting.

Then at some point these same women will want to settle down with the Beta guy who makes good money and has the skills to be a loving father. He is loyal. He cares. A very Beta guy will often be taken advantage of by being that Nice Guy.

So I suggest that the Good Guy is the one who has a good balance of traits. You can have balance and have low Alpha and low Beta traits or you could have balance with high Alpha and high Bets traits.
The best combo is the guy who can be Beta but can swithc that Alpha into action on demand. These guys are very confident yet caring. They know if they need to they can unleash the Kracken.


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## Lon

jfv said:


> The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 1
> 
> As a dedicated SIGMA male, here's my contribution to this thread. Good night all.


interesting read, it does tend to fit in well with my own thoughts and observations, but the wordiness started to outweigh the useful "information"(?? - I would say opinion, nothing really "informative" but certainly worth listening to for me) So I skipped to the end.

What does it all mean to me? Not much, I agree there is no reason why I would strive to be pure alpha, like the article says society has democratized the rules and social order, we don't really tolerate alpha law-setting behavior in our culture... but personally I will strive to be not gamma and comfortably delta... and when the occasion calls to be the alpha of my group on a intern basis.

Too many greek words in that article, but I do get what the author wrote.

Now I'm going to go beat on my new drumset a little, lol.


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## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> interesting read, it does tend to fit in well with my own thoughts and observations, but the wordiness started to outweigh the useful "information"(?? - I would say opinion, nothing really "informative" but certainly worth listening to for me) So I skipped to the end.
> 
> What does it all mean to me? Not much, I agree there is no reason why I would strive to be pure alpha, like the article says society has democratized the rules and social order, we don't really tolerate alpha law-setting behavior in our culture... but personally I will strive to be not gamma and comfortably delta... and when the occasion calls to be the alpha of my group on a intern basis.
> 
> Too many greek words in that article, but I do get what the author wrote.
> 
> Now I'm going to go beat on my new drumset a little, lol.


The Dawn Of Man: First Step In Evolution - YouTube


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## Entropy3000

Alpha man V.S Beta man- Reason why alpha male always rules - YouTube

Alpha vs. Beta

Californiacation


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## anotherguy

Entropy3000 said:


> Alpha man V.S Beta man- Reason why alpha male always rules - YouTube
> 
> Alpha vs. Beta
> 
> Californiacation


all the alpha beta garbage looks like what went on in highschool...and yeah - you see it in some guys that think they are 'grownups'. Too funny.

all the discomfort, posing, disingenuous drama, self promotion and peurile headgames. Its hard to watch its so silly and transparently vapid.

Pull some of that cheese on an actual, intelligent, self confident woman (or man) - and they (and their friends, and everyone around you...and I) are going to be laughing at your sorry, pretentious a$$ - rightfully so. 

'alpha' = doosh-baggery. (sic). The sorry, self-proclaimed 'alpha' knuckleheads that think this is something to aspire to are failing at life.


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## anotherguy

sorry... couldnt resist...


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## Lon

Entropy3000 said:


> Alpha man V.S Beta man- Reason why alpha male always rules - YouTube
> 
> Alpha vs. Beta
> 
> Californiacation


Obviously these are just for humor, lol. That first vid, the pretty boy is not alpha at all, just a showoff (the awkward scientist from Avatar sitting next to him is probably less beta than the harvard dentist - and really, "dentistry" is considered an alpha occupation? hardly, maybe cardiology though)

The second video was purely pickup artistry, nothing to do with actually being alpha, the "alpha" in that one followed all the tricks just like a good beta does. In beta mode he was actually the classic "gamma" role there, not trying to be alpha just your average guy that wants to meet a pretty girl. And even though that video seems cheesy and overproduced, it is so excrutiatingly realistic in the bar scene, its exactly the tacky ritual that goes on there, and while I do need to personally up my game I have no intention of ever asking a woman to see her hand and read her personality (just to escalate the kino and have sex with her, not alpha at all! in my mind)

The third vid, with Duchovny, was actually kinda interesting except its just actors playing the writer's script, the popup notes were actually what made me nod and smile a little, except just way too analytical. One lesson I got from it is to remember to be less so open to criticism from those whose have not earned a place criticiainand see more interaction with women early on as a bit of a sh!t test, or atleast to not spew verbal diahrea over her and basing the amount of conformity to her ideas depending on how attractive I find her.


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## Deejo

anotherguy said:


> sorry... couldnt resist...


Did that very thing to a dude at a party. Within minutes he couldn't shut himself up, and I kept cajoling him to tell me all about his awesomeness. After a while most folks caught on to what I was doing.

This stuff really runs the gamut.

I think I actually prefer the original definition. The men I think of as 'alpha' are not necessarily chick magnets, but they are admirable, honorable, and I respect the way they conduct themselves.

They don't seek to call attention to themselves, but attention almost always seems to find them.


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## anotherguy

Lon said:


> ...One lesson I got from it is to remember to be less so open to criticism from those whose have not earned a place criticiain and see more interaction with women early on as a bit of a sh!t test, or atleast to not spew verbal diahrea over her and basing the amount of conformity to her ideas depending on how attractive I find her...


You lost me at _*depending on how attractive I find her.*_

I agree that if someone has a history of folding at the first sign of verbal or non-verbal challenge, that that is a problem.

But equating that to a 'sh!t test' implys something that, pobably isnt happening. Typically it is simply banter, nothing more or less. 

he: 'can I buy you a drink'?
she: 'maybe, but your penis is probably too small'
he: 'penis, what penis? I'm a eunuch. Vodka tonic?'

But maybe that is just splitting hairs - the attitude that women need to be overcome or subjugated or combatted or put in their place from an 'alpha male' is silly.

Work on yourself, better yourself - get comfortable in your own shin. Lets leave the 'alpha male' and all the posing to the dogpacks - where it even there it is mistaken concept based on erroneous human interpretation of behavior and interaction.


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## anotherguy

Deejo said:


> I think I actually prefer the original definition. The men I think of as 'alpha' are not necessarily chick magnets, but they are admirable, honorable, and I respect the way they conduct themselves.
> 
> They don't seek to call attention to themselves, but attention almost always seems to find them.


totally with you.

You are making my point for me. When you start quibbling about 'the original definition' you are seeing that the analogy of the alpha-male, the alpha dog, the NMMNG boondoggle is misleading and inadequate in more ways than it is effective.

Forgive me - but 'what you think' doesnt matter. What matters is what other people hear when the terminology is used. You have obviously studied it all in detail... I think you know what I am saying.

(Gene Wilder was so awesome. Blazing Saddles? Wonka?, 'Franken-steen'?? Puh-lease!)


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## jaquen

Not a motherf***ing thing. I'm so sick of all these damn lessons in Greek grammar.


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## COguy

jaquen said:


> Not a motherf***ing thing. I'm so sick of all these damn lessons in Greek grammar.


That's because you're an "Iota male".


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## Lon

anotherguy said:


> he: 'can I buy you a drink'?
> she: 'maybe, but your penis is probably too small'
> he: 'penis, what penis? I'm a eunuch. Vodka tonic?'


Ha, like her response would ever happen like that, atleast not with a whole lot of eye contact and non-verbal communication leading up to the "can I buy you a drink?"

Anyways, I don't want to debate how to define these terms either, it is actually getting tedious, I just didn't think everyone here is thinking the same thing when we hear certain terminology. I've spent enough time on this subject the past two days and I don't think anyone has changed their opinions, it has been useful cause we each are giving it some thought, but its not really going anywhere. I'm just gonna be as genuine as I can be.


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## Deejo

Well, in essence, the OP proved a salient point. The term means different things depending upon who is framing the reference.

We could instead create our own ... and hell we can even tie it in with the site.

What do we want you to be?

We want you to be a ...

T.A.M

Totally Awesome Male. TAM up baby ...


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## AFEH

I think a man’s better off defining himself by his boundaries. If those boundaries have a mixture of alpha, beta, omega and whatever else characteristics/rules/values/beliefs in them then that’s the way the man is.


But for sure a Man must be King of his own domain, his world. As an Englishman my home is my Castle and I’m King of all that lays within it. I play the roles of Steward, Investor, Maintenance Guy. Plumber, Electrician, Gardener, Defender, Decorator, Nurse, Confident and whatever else needs doing. I even cook, wash and iron my own clothes! Alpha? I can do that when it needs doing which fortunately in my life isn’t often.


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## anotherguy

AFEH said:


> I think a man’s better off defining himself by his boundaries. If those boundaries have a mixture of alpha, beta, omega and whatever else characteristics/rules/values/beliefs in them then that’s the way the man is.
> 
> 
> But for sure a Man must be King of his own domain, his world. As an Englishman my home is my Castle and I’m King of all that lays within it. I play the roles of Steward, Investor, Maintenance Guy. Plumber, Electrician, Gardener, Defender, Decorator, Nurse, Confident and whatever else needs doing. I even cook, wash and iron my own clothes! Alpha? I can do that when it needs doing which fortunately in my life isn’t often.


laugh. I couldnt help but think of this...

The Life I Lead - Mary Poppins (David Tomlinson) - YouTube

of course the moral of the movie is that by the end of it - he finally sees that he has been horribly wrong.

again - all in good humor.


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## AFEH

anotherguy said:


> laugh. I couldnt help but think of this...
> 
> The Life I Lead - Mary Poppins (David Tomlinson) - YouTube
> 
> of course the moral of the movie is that by the end of it - he finally sees that he has been horribly wrong.
> 
> again - all in good humor.


Mary Poppins? You really watch that stuff?


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## anotherguy

AFEH said:


> Mary Poppins? You really watch that stuff?


My friend - I have 2 kids younger than 10. I am horribly, excruciatingly well versed in all things Disney. Its part of my being an Alpha male with the little ones. 'Feed The Birds' has got to be one of the great Disney songs of all time, frankly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHrRxQVUFN4

Plus - I did see it when I was little too. Did you not?

AND - tell me 'The Life I lead' isnt the PERFECT stereotype clip for an englishman as Lord of his Domain. :smthumbup:


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## bribrius

Good chance im alpha.
i hate to compromise


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## AFEH

anotherguy said:


> My friend - I have 2 kids younger than 10. I am horribly, excruciatingly well versed in all things Disney.
> 
> Plus - I did see it when I was little too. Did you not?
> 
> AND - tell me that isnt the PERFECT stereotype clip for an englishman as Lord of his Domain. :smthumbup:


You can make it be whatever you want it to be. Project whatever stereotype you wish wherever you wish, even if it is out of Disney. Absolutely no skin off my nose if you want to live in your stereotypical fantasy world.


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## Gaia

Ok I read parts of this thread, totally like the T.A.M. idea but this is how I see an alpha male. I see an alpha male as someone who does indeed take charge, leads and guides, buuut he is also a male who treasures respect greatly. He will compromise and he does indeed care. I don't believe caring and kindness are strictly beta traits. I believe an alpha male is confident in himself enough to show kindness, caring, ect to his spouse and family but he is no pushover either. That's just my view of an alpha male.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares

I'm the guy who people in what I called "my family" used to call anytime things were f**ked up and a decision needed to be made in order to make things "better".
Just as long as things were going their way, I didn't get any calls.
I also brought home the bacon so they could have anything they wanted that I could buy them.
I doubt they considered me the "alpha male".
Probably more like a multi purpose utensil.
I no longer fit any label.


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## Coffee Amore

When someone is a truly confident man, it's apparent in how he treats others. He's strong yet he can compromise when the situation calls for it. People can see the inner strength. There's no need for chest thumping. He doesn't need to brag about how he dominates others or how others are submissive to him. In fact when a man brags that he's an alpha male who makes others submissive to him, it brings to mind the old quote by Margaret Thatcher about being a lady. "If you have to tell others that are you, you aren't!" :rofl:


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## Gaia

Totally agree coffee!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pandakiss

My husband is alpha. I'm an alpha chick. I can't take beta dudes. I just eat them alive. 

My guy is a blend of chris Evans in "what's your number" and Ryan gosling in "crazy stupid love". 

His coworkers look up to him, even though he's just a worker bee. He's seen as the leader. He gives respect and commands respect. 

He dosent have to yell to get his point across. He will not talk to you if you have an attitude. He does not kiss anyone's ass (cept mines). 

He dosent get into pissing contests. He's a straight shooter, and tells you the way it is and the way it's gonna be. 

He dosent play along with the one up manship. He is secure in himself. I have had women come up to me and dramatically tell me, "your husband is such an a$$hole....", he says I don't have to be nice to anyone but my wife. 

They stamp their foot, go "oooo", and flirt with him anyways. We make fun of them later. 

Buuut he will give you the shirt off his back and his last dollar in his pocket. He opens doors, helps women carry their bags to the car, gets up to offer a seat to women when he's on the bus, will help a woman with her stroller. 

If he's in line and the person behind him or us has 2/3/4 things and we have 50, he lets them go ahead. 

So in short he's great to me, but won't take sh!t from me and calls me in it. Is respectful to others and won't be disrespected. He dosent have to raise his voice or fists to get his point across or respect. 

He's confident. Walks tall and sure of himself.


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## krismimo

Sorry have to bring the thread back to the subject this question was for the guys (Sorry hope I'm not being rude). Wow I love the references too funny.


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## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> O*bviously these are just for humor, lol. * That first vid, the pretty boy is not alpha at all, just a showoff (the awkward scientist from Avatar sitting next to him is probably less beta than the harvard dentist - and really, "dentistry" is considered an alpha occupation? hardly, maybe cardiology though)
> 
> The second video was purely pickup artistry, nothing to do with actually being alpha, the "alpha" in that one followed all the tricks just like a good beta does. In beta mode he was actually the classic "gamma" role there, not trying to be alpha just your average guy that wants to meet a pretty girl. And even though that video seems cheesy and overproduced, it is so excrutiatingly realistic in the bar scene, its exactly the tacky ritual that goes on there, and while I do need to personally up my game I have no intention of ever asking a woman to see her hand and read her personality (just to escalate the kino and have sex with her, not alpha at all! in my mind)
> 
> The third vid, with Duchovny, was actually kinda interesting except its just actors playing the writer's script, the popup notes were actually what made me nod and smile a little, except just way too analytical. One lesson I got from it is to remember to be less so open to criticism from those whose have not earned a place criticiainand see more interaction with women early on as a bit of a sh!t test, or atleast to not spew verbal diahrea over her and basing the amount of conformity to her ideas depending on how attractive I find her.


Yep. All tongue in cheek ...


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## krismimo

You know reading all these posts also shows a sneek peek of what it means to be man and what is expected of you and for that I have a brand new respect for men not saying I never did but also seeing what is expected from you and still not give a damn is not always a easy thing to do I find that admirable.


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## HuggyBear

the guy said:


> Sexually speaking the alpha goes 1st in the gang bang.


An alpha male doesn't do "gang bangs." He finds a quality woman, then takes her where he wants to go, for what he wants to do... those other guys in the "gang bang" don't count.

Alpha females? Alpha (and other) males realize one thing... they're just like the rest of them...

Me? When I'm not with my family, and out and about, I'm probably what you would call a psychopath. I get the job done, when I feel like it.


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## jaquen

AFEH said:


> Mary Poppins? You really watch that stuff?


I assume this is a joke, right? Who hasn't watched_ Mary Poppins_?


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## Lon

Pandakiss said:


> My guy is a blend of chris Evans in "what's your number" and Ryan gosling in "crazy stupid love".


Not sure you want to be bragging about that. I assume you mean the versions of them at the happily ever after end of the movies where they get over their insecurities and fear of commitment and have the girl?


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## TiggyBlue

There is such a misconception with 'alpha' and 'beta'.
The whole ranking of people 'alpha, belta, subordinates, omega'
comes from canine studies (mostly wolf packs).
The traits of what most people consider alpha (sleep around, agressive ect) are the traits of a beta.
Beta's are pretty much a alpha's lieutenant and does the alpha's dirty work and keeps every lower rank in line.
Alpha's are confidently quiet and doin't act randomly agressive or loud because they don't have to, they are very aware they of their abilites and feel no need to prove what their capable of.

Alpha mate only with the alpha female none others (unless the female is down then they will mate with the next rank, vice versa with the female alpha). There 'seed' is prized and there mission is to make the strongest offspring not the most so only mate with the strongest females.

Problem is human and canine society doesn't totally correlate and all books that are written is 'how to stop being beta and become alpha' , beta is already a high rank so not everyone is a 'alpha' or a rank that's next in line.
Alpha's do not look for other canines (or humans) to what to do.
So a book about how to become alpha is a real oxymoron.


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## Broken at 20

I remember talking with some guy back in high school and he said, nice guys, and players, your alpha's and beta's are more similar than either of them would like to admit. 
They both have sexual needs, and want to get them satisfied. A big difference between them, is how they try to accomplish that need.

The alpha is more successful than the beta, because he takes charge, while the beta keeps hoping for something divine to happen and hopes everything will just fall into place. 



And I will say, I think that while beta and alpha can describe some men, I think it fails to describe all men. Because there are a lot of men that have characteristics of both.


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## Deejo

Like most things surrounding struggling with or overcoming personal and relationship issues, its easy to let semantics or 'noise' get in the way of seeing the true problem.

It is far more about what you decide to do, than it is how you choose to refer to it. 

Its the doing that matters.


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## TiggyBlue

Deejo said:


> Like most things surrounding struggling with or overcoming personal and relationship issues, its easy to let semantics or 'noise' get in the way of seeing the true problem.
> 
> It is far more about what you decide to do, than it is how you choose to refer to it.
> 
> Its the doing that matters.


Couldn't agree with you more :smthumbup:


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## CraigW

I'm new to all the Alpha, Beta, Omega philosophies. I'm torn because I do see some merit to behaving "Alpha" in certain situations but I also believe you have to be yourself. I don't buy completely into it. 

A couple of years ago, a power struggle between me and two others came up and an outside party commented that "you're clearly the Alpha in this situation". I understood the implication but never thought of Alpha in my marriage because I always treated it as a partnership. 

In that partnership, I have a role and my wife has a role within the boundaries we set. To me, there is a time to be Alpha and a time to be Beta and you need to distinguish when and where to exhibit these traits on your own. 

Again, I find merit because I sometimes exhibit "Alpha" tendencies but another part of me has visions of soft-spoken, high pitched men trying to be something they're not. If a woman doesn't like who you are, find one who does. 

Now there were times I acted Alpha and my wife swooned. There were also times I acted Alpha and my wife was not happy with me.
The same could be said when I acted Beta.


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## bandit.45

An alpha male could be a guy who is just comfortable in his own skin and doesn't give a f*ck about what women think of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I think it's useful in terms of getting some men to stop letting their women run everything and stop giving away their power. Other than that the whole thing is just an artificial construct. 
I knew a guy who was having an affair and would go on about what an alpha guy he was and how dominant he was in bed. Didn't really do much for me but I found out he had a ONS with a friend of mine and he couldn't get it up. She said eventually he did but it was over really quickly and he was doing odd things like sucking her top lip.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pandakiss

Lon said:


> Not sure you want to be bragging about that. I assume you mean the versions of them at the happily ever after end of the movies where they get over their insecurities and fear of commitment and have the girl?


no, i meant just the attitude and personality wise. i mean that guy who is just too cool, just always on point, never flustered....and can say the most boneheaded thing, and its still cool.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *AnotherGuy said*: In the broken colloquial vernacular of this board and the assorted 'self-help' methodologies (snake oil, that is) frequently peddled here, it is a self imposed moniker of importance that wannabe narcissistic d1cks attach to themselves. An anachronistic holdover from pack mentality and military tactics at which they grasp, harpy-like, at machismo in their desire to get sex and alter the conditions of the relationship 'game'. To make themselves 'more attractive' by pretending to be something they are not, and implimenting a transaction based system to try and fix a crappy relationship... or again.. to simply get laid.


I laughed when I read this ... this is how I think too...when I hear the term "*Alpha Male*" ... I conjure up the type who strut around like God's gift, women falling at their feet...who look down & ridicule Beta males -squashing them into the dirt in so many google links ... it is all about getting the all mighty "FVck" - to raise the sex rank. .....there is a conceit there for many....and a c0cky confidence. 

But this is slaughtering the intended meaning of the word badly... I realize this.....It's careless use by the chest thumping Di**s have played a role on the term... for me. 

Just as many , when they hear







.... too many associate it with weak willed passive doormats sucking up to their wives, letting her brow beat him into oblivion.









The truth of the matter, as many have explained so well here ....is every man needs a mixture of these ...both possessing their GOOD / desired side .....and equally sharing an ugly undesirable, hurtful side that destoys relationships. Well expressed here >>>



> *Entropy3000 said*: So I suggest that the Good Guy is the one who has a good balance of traits. You can have balance and have low Alpha and low Beta traits or you could have balance with high Alpha and high Bets traits.
> The best combo is the guy who can be Beta but can switch that Alpha into action on demand. These guys are very confident yet caring. They know if they need to they can unleash the Kracken.


 :smthumbup:


Athol Kays explains this -from this thread - post #5 >>









*Alpha* = attraction building = Dopamine = In Love = Excitement
*Beta* = comfort building = Oxytocin / Vasopressin = Pair Bond = Calm Enjoyment"













COguy said:


> I don't think kindness and niceness are traits of an "alpha male", I think they are beta male traits or traits of a caring person.
> 
> Being alpha to me is just about confidence and assertiveness, the ability to lead.
> 
> Being beta is about caring, kindness, commitment, dependability.
> 
> Do I consider myself an "alpha male"? No. I would say that I am confident in my character and am not afraid to lead people, but I am also caring and kind and a caretaker type.
> 
> Honestly, I don't care if I'm an "alpha male", I think I have a great combination of alpha and beta traits that makes me an awesome potential mate. I'm working on being a little MORE assertive, because I think being in my marriage kind of hurt my confidence a little, but I'm not going to compromise my character or integrity just to pick up girls. I say that because many guys go "bad boy alpha" just to pick up girls at the bar, which is not something that appeals to me.


 COguy ~ you sound like my husband here ! :smthumbup:



> * Deejo said*: Importantly, the connotation isn't always positive. Prisons are overflowing with 'Alpha' males.


 Yes, it is all related to the higher ends of Testosterone, broken homes, Lousy male role models, no restraint on their lusts & passions. Too wired, Too restless, a confidence with no conscience. 



> *Deejo said:* In terms of navigating relationships, we have talked about this on more than a few occasions. Athol sums it up perfectly in his book, and without reservation, I can say that we were having those conversations here at the time he was writing it.
> It's a scale. The males best suited to successful, long term, fulfilling relationships are the ones that are aware that it's a scale, and know when the scale must be adjusted to maintain balance, and importantly, attraction.


:smthumbup:



> *WyshIknew said*: Interestingly she asked me recently to stop reading MMSL and NMMNG as she didn't want me any more alpha and was worried it would turn me into a bully. She likes the soft, sentimental guy who adores her.


 As a woman, I too







the soft sentimental type.... if he lacked this, I wouldn't have wanted him... I'd throw him back. 

All of us women dream of the *courageous* Knight who pursues us with *confidence* to win our







's ...who holds *Responsibility *& *Integrity *in his other hands... if he hurts - he is man enough to apologize quickly / honestly..... this man does not blame others for his mistakes, or makes excuses. 

He is *assertive* with his needs, He is a Provider who adores his family.... A man who is *Self controlled * - who can put down that which may rise within -unhealthy temptations ...to not lash out & wound others...such a man is not a Drunkard, a womanizer, or unable to control his addictions. And he is a man of *Passion*...and *Faithfulness*... for his wife , his children, his family above all. 

It's the Alpha / Beta whole package...the "REAL" man.... We all want this: ....


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## Deejo

I like your style SA.

Love that picture of the dad and his daughter.


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## joe kidd

I'm not going to be pigeonholed. I'm assertive/ aggressive when it's called for. If the situation doesn't call for such then I'm not.


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## Deejo

joe kidd said:


> I'm not going to be pigeonholed. I'm assertive/ aggressive when it's called for. If the situation doesn't call for such then I'm not.


*See Avatar for more information*

Joe's avatar, not my avatar ... although Ron Burgundy is pretty alpha, and popular with the ladies ...  Don't fight it ...


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## krismimo

Thank you ladies for your input but the focus is really about the guys here.


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## SimplyAmorous

Deejo said:


> I like your style SA.
> 
> Love that picture of the dad and his daughter.










Deejo - Love adding a little visual inspiration. I've been going emoticon crazy lately, adding to my growing collection. It's a sickness I guess. 



> *krismimo said*: Thank you ladies for your input but the focus is really about the guys here.










Sorry !


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## Torrivien

I think you should get an A, simply for your awesome post. You nailed it. Everything said after would be repetitive or irrelevant.


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## Caribbean Man

".....He is assertive with his needs *[ goals & ambition ],* He is a Provider who adores his family.... A man who is Self controlled - who can put down that which may rise within -unhealthy temptations ...to not lash out & wound others...such a man is not a Drunkard, a womanizer, or unable to control his addictions. And he is a man of Passion...and Faithfulness... for his wife , his children, his family above all........"

Well said Simply Amorous ![ I inserted the bold words goals & ambition because its my personal experience. ha, ha!]

That last pic is the stuff real men dream of.
Its priceless!


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## SimplyAmorous

Thank you Torrivien & Caribbean Man : Just wanted to give a little :thumbup: to my oldest son on some of my thoughts... this will sound a little crazy to some (we are a weird family)....but I asked him to write me up something explaining what a *REAL MAN* *is* a couple weeks ago - beings he is so far removed from a Player.... and his realizing young women today look kinda strange on Virgin males in College waiting for the







of their lives. 

I wanted him to split his brain on Why women are attracted to these types & does he feel he is doing himself a "disservice" living as he believes. 

Oh, he fully gets it...went to task to explain .... what these men possess .....It is #1 ...the CONFIDENCE & pursuing what they want >> this ALPHA...curling women's toes with desire....but yet, they lack in some areas...being the Unrestrained... It is just MORE than that.... I challenge my kids to THINK, understand their own positions in life. 

I hardly used any of it in this (maybe a thread someday ~ maybe he'll come join us & post - he is taking Psyche after all) ..... but some of my ending thoughts were actually HIS WORDS to me.. Of course.....Mother heartily agreed. 

Just giving him a little credit....as I did a little plagiarizing there.


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## TiggyBlue

SimplyAmorous said:


> Thank you Torrivien & Caribbean Man : Just wanted to give a little :thumbup: to my oldest son on some of my thoughts... this will sound a little crazy to some (we are a weird family)....but I asked him to write me up something explaining what a *REAL MAN* *is* a couple weeks ago - beings he is so far removed from a Player.... and his realizing young women today look kinda strange on Virgin males in College waiting for the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of their lives.
> 
> I wanted him to split his brain on Why women are attracted to these types & does he feel he is doing himself a "disservice" living as he believes.
> 
> Oh, he fully gets it...went to task to explain .... what these men possess .....It is #1 ...the CONFIDENCE & pursuing what they want >> this ALPHA...curling women's toes with desire....but yet, they lack in some areas...being the Unrestrained... It is just MORE than that.... I challenge my kids to THINK, understand their own positions in life.
> 
> I hardly used any of it in this (maybe a thread someday ~ maybe he'll come join us & post - he is taking Psyche after all) ..... but some of my ending thoughts were actually HIS WORDS to me.. Of course.....Mother heartily agreed.
> 
> Just giving him a little credit....as I did a little plagiarizing there.


:smthumbup:


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## bfree

krismimo said:


> Hello gentlemen,
> 
> I would like to know when you hear the term Alpha Male what does that mean to you? (I'm a woman) And do you consider yourself an Alpha Male? I ask because looking back I think I had a misconception of what it means I think there still is a huge misconception about the term. If you asked me a year ago I probably would have said a a**hole jock but to me that is bully, to me it is someone who is assertive and confident in himself although he can be nice and kind he is not a pushover either. I'm curious from a man's perspective what it means to you. Thanks in advance for reading this.
> 
> Kris.


Confidence, composure and amused mastery.


----------

