# monitor or not???



## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

I have posted here before looking for advice about keylogger. Thanks to everyone who responded. I now have 2 questions about this.

1. I know very little about computers. Will it be best for me to purchase keylogger from one computer then install on the computer I want to monitor? I am worried about leaving any kind of trace that it is there.

2. Should I spend the money and actually go thru with using keylogger? Here is why I ask this question:
My H was on web sites such as adult friend finder, cheating hookup, etc. He never paid for a membership so he couldnt actually interact with anyone. He did set up a profile and responded to one message but that was as far as he could go without paying. When I confronted him, he said it was done out of curiosity, however, he has done this before.
I also found out he was looking at ads for escorts but I have no proof he has met up with anyone. 
He is an "on and off" alcoholic, and blames his actions on the drinking. He has apologized and assures me that he has never cheated. He has agreed to leave the computer with me at all times, but there are still times that he is here alone (when I go to the store, church, etc.)
Should I have faith that he is sincere and this will not happen again or should I go thru with the monitoring. 
We are currently struggling with finances so I dont want to waste money but I also want to know if he is or trying to cheat. that is something I cant live with. 
Any opinions?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

sounds like he might have some kinky thoughts, but has not acted on them. Simply checking out a craigslist for prurient interests...is the same as reading or watching porn...not cheating. Even establishing a profile on a sex forum, where sex is discussed or there are gallery pictures, is not necessarily anything other than porn.

But a DATING SITE, like A.M., Craigslist, etc where he makes a profile and accepts emails...that is over the line. There is no purpose for that except to find local sex partners. 

So if I were you, I would find out exactly what web sites he has profiles/memberships on, ask for all the passwords and tell him you will be monitoring periodically, and even ask to sit with him once in a while to see what he is viewing. If it is innocent...I would let it slide...maybe even participate a bit. 

If he balks at sharing the info with you, and it is dating sites...I would lower the boom on him!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Only you can decide what is prudent for your finances and to satisfy your mind about his actions/ intentions. 

I would be vigilant in keeping a track on his actions and I would sit and discuss with him what the two of you consider acceptable boundaries and make sure that they are in place.

Keep in kind that if this is something that is a deal breaker for you, then you need to be prepared to act on your findings (either way). Opening Pandora's box regarding this could be the end of your trust and marriage, no matter the outcome. Also something to keep in mind is that if finances are so tight then he may in actuality have created these site profiles to test the waters and find the one that provides the most for his money before he makes the leap, or it could just be curiosity and his propensities in action. Either way I would take heed and make sure to discuss this with him and make sure he knows your position on these actions and your views on what is acceptable and not in your marriage (if he doesn't know already).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You mention that he's promised to stay off the computer... What about the "on again off again" alcoholic thing? Why is there alcohol in the home if he's got such issues? Booze is much more expensive than a key logger anyway...

And if you want to mother him, lock up the cable modem when you're gone. But for that matter, if he's got a cell phone with internet access, you're screwed anyway. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

blaming his behavior on alcohol is a big red flag to me that he isn't ready to do the heavy lifting necessary to make real changes.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Keylogger for what? You already know what he is doing and has been doing multiple times now.

Escorts? Adult friend finder? 

Please get tested for STDs.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Alwayshsare

I believe that if you get to the point in a relationship where you feel you need to monitor your partner, there is no point staying. Trust is vital to a happy relationship - if it is already lost, then what is the point. (no matter whose fault caused the lack of trust).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, I just want to point out that in my history of reading about spouses who set up and used dating or adult websites--never ONCE has one of them said "Yes, I did meet up with someone."

They ALL say "I never met anyone from it." In every single case I've read about *including my own experience with it).

What I did was print it out and show it to him and handed it to him. 

I will never forget the look on his dissembling face for as long as I live.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Lila said:


> There's a great saying "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".
> 
> I know that I'm very hardcore with my definition of infidelity but the act of setting up a profile on cheater hookups and AFF shows intent to cheat. The only reason it hasn't gone further is that he hasn't been given the opportunity to do so.
> 
> If you want to catch him in the act just set-up dummy accounts. You know him best. Use the profile language and a sexy profile pic as bait.


Funny you generalize it all and say that there is only one reason for setting up an account, but then turn around and give another reason someone would set up an account. So there are at least two reasons. Maybe he suspects her and was doing the same?? (I doubt this is the case, but hey stranger things have happened?)


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Also, I just want to point out that in my history of reading about spouses who set up and used dating or adult websites--never ONCE has one of them said "Yes, I did meet up with someone."
> 
> They ALL say "I never met anyone from it." In every single case I've read about *including my own experience with it).


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Also, I just want to point out that in my history of reading about spouses who set up and used dating or adult websites--never ONCE has one of them said "Yes, I did meet up with someone."
> 
> They ALL say "I never met anyone from it." In every single case I've read about *including my own experience with it).
> 
> ...


There are a few on here (can't remember the names now) that have admitted to meeting people through the sites, of course they were the exception and not the rule. These posters generally were in an admitted open marriage and had the open knowledge and acceptance from their spouse to do such things, so it does happen just not very much.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i belive i've posted this before...in a previous thread of yours or one similar.

the vast majority of married guys *do not* go to dating sites...chesting sites...hook up sits...browse craigslist for escorts etc..this is not "normal" imho.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> i belive i've posted this before...in a previous thread of yours or one similar.
> 
> the vast majority of married guys *do not* go to dating sites...chesting sites...hook up sits...browse craigslist for escorts etc..this is not "normal" imho.


Sadly, from the amount of times we've read it on these sites, it seems like a common theme, not a minority issue.

I sure as sh*t never thought I'd find my ex one of those things.


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

I have been reading a little on how to find websites that have been visited and have been doing a little snooping. turns out he has been visiting porn sites for over a year. I know looking at porn is not cheating but it looks as though that is what is was leading to. With that in mind, I am wondering if he may just wait to let things blow over and go back to these site. 
Anyone here ever experienced anything similar? Will he just look for other ways to do what he wants? 
Hurt and confused!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

PLEASE read the story that's linked in my sig about what my hubby did, if you haven't already. He started out with porn, then thought he'd spend just 'one' weekend indulging himself with sex chats, then before he knew it he was full on going to hotels to meet with the 'models' he met on Yahoo chat and AFF and Sexsearch.


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

Hope, thanks for sharing. I would consider what my husband has done as a form of or the beginning of cheating. However, if it hasnt gone farther, I am willing to move forward with him. I'm sure I will never know if it went further, but I do want to know if it happens again. He doesnt have access to the computer nearly as much now , but I would think 3-4 hours a week would be enough to do whatever he has in mind. Would you suggest keylogger?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Does he have a phone with internet access?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

pbear, no he doesnt and I am able to see all the numbers he calls and texts. Of course just seeing the numbers does not help.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Alwayshsare
> 
> I believe that if you get to the point in a relationship where you feel you need to monitor your partner, there is no point staying. Trust is vital to a happy relationship - if it is already lost, then what is the point. (no matter whose fault caused the lack of trust).


You may believe that but it's irrelevant. At least for this thread. The Op isn't asking should she "stay or go", she wants to find out if the guy has gone further than he admits.

For their own reasons, lots of betrayed partners stay in relationships where there can never ever be trust. 

For what it's worth I agree with you.

I've never been cheated on but I'd like to think I'd never stick by someone who betrayed me.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good Evening Alwayshere
I think someone is justified in leaving a marriage if they believe their spouse is cheating, but do not think that they are justified in monitoring their spouse. 

If I discovered that a partner was monitoring my behavior with a keylogger or similar, I would leave the relationship because it would mean that trust was lost. I would be more bothered by a partner installing a keylogger than by a partner cheating, which is something that I could forgive. 

The problem is that once you monitor, how can you stop? You can never know that they are not cheating, only that you haven't caught them yet. Catching your partner may allow you to feel justified in leaving, but it seems that it doesn't change the final outcome.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> I would be more bothered by a partner installing a keylogger than by a partner cheating, which is something that I could forgive.


"You put a keylogger on my computer, how dare you? I want a divorce!"

"You screwed another guy.. well that's ok, I forgive you just don't do it again!".


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good Evening Alwayshere
> I think someone is justified in leaving a marriage if they believe their spouse is cheating, but do not think that they are justified in monitoring their spouse.
> 
> If I discovered that a partner was monitoring my behavior with a keylogger or similar, I would leave the relationship because it would mean that trust was lost. I would be more bothered by a partner installing a keylogger than by a partner cheating, which is something that I could forgive.
> ...


You're obviously new here. Keylogging etc is standard procedure in these here parts when one has suspicions their spouse is cheating.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

alwayshere said:


> Hope, thanks for sharing. I would consider what my husband has done as a form of or the beginning of cheating. However, if it hasnt gone farther, I am willing to move forward with him. I'm sure I will never know if it went further, but I do want to know if it happens again. He doesnt have access to the computer nearly as much now , but I would think 3-4 hours a week would be enough to do whatever he has in mind. Would you suggest keylogger?


Yes I would suggest a keylogger. Just the fact that he signed up for AFF etc gives you more than enough reason not to trust him.

If there is anything I would do over, it would be to install a keylogger and find out exactly what my husband was up to when I found those emails.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Could try putting a VAR in the car. Weightlifter has details on that if someone can past a copy.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good Evening hope1964.
Yes I believe that keylogging is a standard procedure. It is just one that I do not like. For me, trust is more important than fidelity.

So yes, if my partner were to cheat, I could easily forgive it. In my opinion cheating is a emotionally driven response, not a careful rational decision. Spying / keylogging is a deliberate rational action based on a lack of trust. I would leave if I discovered I was being monitored. 

I have never made and never will make any attempt to monitor or spy on a partner. 


I don't expect people to agree with me but I thought it was worth giving my opinion because I may not be alone in this.




Hope1964 said:


> You're obviously new here. Keylogging etc is standard procedure in these here parts when one has suspicions their spouse is cheating.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> For me, trust is more important than fidelity.
> 
> So yes, if my partner were to cheat, I could easily forgive it.
> 
> I have never made and never will make any attempt to monitor or spy on a partner.


Have you cheated on your partner?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If you cheated and then your partner monitored you, what would you do? What would you expect her to do?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good Evening Hope1964, Lenzi

If I cheated, my partner would have the right to leave me. If my partner monitored me, I would leave. So if both happened the relationship would end - it wouldn't really matter who left who first. 

Lenzi asked if I had cheated:
I'm sorry, but if I had cheated, it is not something I would admit on a public forum. I know it seems rude, but I am being very careful about posting any sort of personal information here after an unfortunate experience in a different forum. Since I am in a relationship, anything I post involving myself is not just jeopardizing my privacy, but the privacy of my partner, and I have no right to put them at risk of exposure. 




Hope1964 said:


> If you cheated and then your partner monitored you, what would you do? What would you expect her to do?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

So you did cheat and I bet you got caught through monitoring (based upon your standing on it). I say this as there is no shame in admitting that you haven't cheated and nothing adverts could come from such admission, not that there is in admitting infidelity but there is a stigma surrounding that admission. 

Would you quit a job where the employer monitored as it is the same violation of trust??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Lenzi asked if I had cheated:
> I'm sorry, but if I had cheated, it is not something I would admit on a public forum.


I hate being right all the time.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Squeakr
You are welcome to believe whatever you wish about a disembodied voice on the internet.

There is all the difference in the world between love and employment. My employer can and does monitor me, it is part of the agreement where I do work under their conditions and they pay me. I would prefer not to be monitored and would accept slightly lower pay if they did not monitor me, but that option is not available. 

Trust is just so important in a relationship. It is the idea that someone "has your back", that no matter what else is going on in the world, there is at least on person who has your best interests at heart. If that were missing, the remaining relationship would be so hollow that there would be no point in continuing.

Besides, monitoring is pointless. By the time someone is monitoring their partner, they already are sure that something is going on. What value is served by finding "proof"?:scratchhead: You can never find proof that nothing is going on, so all you are doing is waiting for evidence (real or mistaken) of something about which you are already sure.




Squeakr said:


> So you did cheat and I bet you got caught through monitoring (based upon your standing on it). I say this as there is no shame in admitting that you haven't cheated and nothing adverts could come from such admission, not that there is in admitting infidelity but there is a stigma surrounding that admission.
> 
> Would you quit a job where the employer monitored as it is the same violation of trust??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Lenzi
would you have believed me if I said I hadn't cheated? :scratchhead:

There is an old line about how a man who checks under his wife's bed for other lovers, has probably hidden under a bed himself. :chinese:


I do agree with you though, it's much more fun being wrong all the time. That way you learn things from discussions. If you are always right, there is nothing to learn.



lenzi said:


> I hate being right all the time.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi,

I cheated on my husband 1x almost 3 years ago and it was through Adult friend Finder, I did not pay for a membership, I received 100's of emails and hand no problem corresponding with others on that site. 

The site even lets other know when your online and they can IM you.

Unless they made changes in the last 3 years, Please don't believe he cant talk to women and or hook-up.

I tell you this to help you, not hurt you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> would you have believed me if I said I hadn't cheated? :scratchhead:
> 
> There is an old line about how a man who checks under his wife's bed for other lovers, has probably hidden under a bed himself. :chinese:


I would have believed you. Not all people are cheaters or have ever cheated, and it seems that the majority on this site fall into that category.

I stand by my previous statements that there is no shame in admitting that you haven't cheated. When you are quoting lines basically stating that those checking are doing so because they have been there before, it just solidifies my point. Only one whom has cheated would defend their actions based upon prior actions they had done. Also your reasoning that something happened on another site and wishing to remain anonymous by not revealing personal details as it can get you into trouble is complete bunk. Whom would be mad if they found out you had never cheated?? Absolutely no one would wrong you for remaining faithful.

I have caught many people that wouldn't admit to cheating with the same logic about no shame in admitting to not have cheated, it is the opposite side of the fence that is where the shame resides. It is somewhat the same for teen boys not wanting to admit that they are still virgins. When asked they avoid the issue and give reasons that they don't want to kiss and tell as they are gentlemen and protecting the honor of their dates, etc, etc, etc. If they weren't shamed by it (as that is a negative thing for most teen boys) they would just say they weren't and it would all be forgotten (the exact opposite scenario is generally true for teen girls).


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Lenzi
> would you have believed me if I said I hadn't cheated?


Probably not.



richardsharpe said:


> There is an old line about how a man who checks under his wife's bed for other lovers, has probably hidden under a bed himself. :chinese:


There are lots of old sayings richard. Not sure why you chose to share that one? I don't particularly agree with it, what it says is that a betrayed spouse who has his or her suspicions only has them because they themselves are guilty. 



richardsharpe said:


> I do agree with you though, it's much more fun being wrong all the time. That way you learn things from discussions. If you are always right, there is nothing to learn.


I never said it's fun to be wrong. I said I hate being right all the time.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Trust is just so important in a relationship. It is the idea that someone "has your back", that no matter what else is going on in the world, there is at least on person who has your best interests at heart. If that were missing, the remaining relationship would be so hollow that there would be no point in continuing.


When a partner cheats, the trust is gone. It doesn't just suddenly rematerialize after what can be considered to be the ultimate deception. "If" trust for the wayward partner ever returns, it takes years. 



richardsharpe said:


> Besides, monitoring is pointless. By the time someone is monitoring their partner, they already are sure that something is going on.


Usually the betrayed partner has their suspicions but they don't know "for sure" until they find concrete proof, which, you may agree is more responsible than acting simply on intuition or a gut feeling. When you start reading the stories around here, you'll see that many people who post for the first time have their suspicions but are far from sure about anything going on. Although usually if their story continues, and they monitor, with the help of advice givers here, an affair is discovered. 



richardsharpe said:


> What value is served by finding "proof"?:scratchhead:


Um.. the value is that once you know your partner is cheating you can make decisions such as leaving them, or attempting to break up the affair. If there is no concrete proof most cheaters, when confronted, simply lie. It's the nature of a cheater, they're deceptive, they cannot be trusted. Do you see where I'm going with this Richard?



richardsharpe said:


> You can never find proof that nothing is going on, so all you are doing is waiting for evidence (real or mistaken) of something about which you are already sure.


Right, you can't prove a negative, but most of the time if the suspicions are there, it's for good reason. It takes time, and patience, and yes, a person has to "wait for evidence" but eventually the truth comes out.


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## Just Joe (May 26, 2014)

alwayshere said:


> He has agreed to leave the computer with me at all times, but there are still times that he is here alone (when I go to the store, church, etc.)


You could take the computer with you and lock it in the trunk of your car.

If you don't have a car, most computers can be password-protected.

Neither of those will tell you whether or not he wants to cheat on you. Seems like he does, but not at the cost of his relationship with you.


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

ok which is easiest, webwatcher or spectorpro? Also, how will any type of anti-virus affect it? I know very little about computers. I hope someone can help me out here.
How much time will it take to install either of these?


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

I am using a prepaid card to pay. I am paranoid about being "caught". Can I put a fake name in the billing information section?


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## Bartimaus (Oct 15, 2011)

You and he wouldn't be together if you hadn't been attracted to each other from the start. Don't misunderstand me,I have been cheated on and don't like cheaters. But I have this silly belief...that if a guy is doing what he is doing...you can stop him if he still loves you without catching him doing wrong. Become what he is looking for. If he is worth his salt, you won't have to go (against your conscious) with behavior to please him but maybe he is just wanting more kink? Your his woman, consider being that for him, lay aside your pride and control, and if he isn't wanting you to do something that you couldn't do or live with yourself after doing that, have fun and explore that side of each other. Try it, you might like it! But if he just wants to cheat and is that selfish...too bad. But don't just write him off as a cheater if he might be looking for kink (within limitation)that you won't give him. Not saying you won't....just trying to give another perspective here. If what I am saying is the issue..let him lead but if he gets too crazy or wild,you put on the brakes to calm him down some. Just saying and not advocating any perversion at all.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Lenzi

Not sure how to get the quotes right here.

Yes - when someone cheats trust is usually lost. We aren't disagreeing there, except for *me* that represents less of a loss of trust than spying, since cheating can be a snap decision, spying is a calculated action.

Where we disagree is in the need for proof. Imagine you thought it was likely that your partner was cheating. If you spied on them, your suspicious would not go away - you would just assume you hadn't caught them yet. Would you want to live with someone thinking that they were cheating, always suspecting, but not knowing. Wouldn't it just be better to leave when you think they are cheating? Why would someone want to live for years or decades with suspicions, but not know?

A relationship isn't a competition. It really doesn't matter who was wrong - if you are unhappy you should leave. Proof may give you "righteous anger" but what is the point - you would be leaving anyway, so how does it matter if they know that you know?

Maybe the difference in opinions is that I feel a relationship only has value if both people are happy. If either is unhappy for any reason (real or not) it is better to end the relationship and let each find a new partner who is a better match. 






lenzi said:


> When a partner cheats, the trust is gone. It doesn't just suddenly rematerialize after what can be considered to be the ultimate deception. "If" trust for the wayward partner ever returns, it takes years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Squeakr

Let me claim (I can't prove it of course) that I have decided not to lie on this site. So imagine the questions:
have you cheated: no
have you stolen money: no
have you used illegal drugs: no
have you sold military secrets: no comment

I make no claims of having done nothing wrong in my life. So if I answer a lot of questions honestly about things I have not done, what do I do if I am asked a question about something I have done? I could lie about that - but if I'm going to lie, then I might as well say "I've never done anything in any way illegal or immoral". 

The risk with posting things is that internet security is far from perfect. It is possible that someone here knows me in real life. After many posts they might realize who I am. Its even possible my partner is on this site. Then any private information I have posted about myself or my partner is no longer private. I ave discovered that the internet is a much smaller place than many people think. 

I know this is frustrating and annoying. 




Squeakr said:


> I would have believed you. Not all people are cheaters or have ever cheated, and it seems that the majority on this site fall into that category.
> 
> I stand by my previous statements that there is no shame in admitting that you haven't cheated. When you are quoting lines basically stating that those checking are doing so because they have been there before, it just solidifies my point. Only one whom has cheated would defend their actions based upon prior actions they had done. Also your reasoning that something happened on another site and wishing to remain anonymous by not revealing personal details as it can get you into trouble is complete bunk. Whom would be mad if they found out you had never cheated?? Absolutely no one would wrong you for remaining faithful.
> 
> I have caught many people that wouldn't admit to cheating with the same logic about no shame in admitting to not have cheated, it is the opposite side of the fence that is where the shame resides. It is somewhat the same for teen boys not wanting to admit that they are still virgins. When asked they avoid the issue and give reasons that they don't want to kiss and tell as they are gentlemen and protecting the honor of their dates, etc, etc, etc. If they weren't shamed by it (as that is a negative thing for most teen boys) they would just say they weren't and it would all be forgotten (the exact opposite scenario is generally true for teen girls).


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon Lenzi
> 
> Not sure how to get the quotes right here.
> 
> ...


Cheating is NEVER a snap decision. It is always a calculated action. It could be a one time thing (ONS), but that does not make it a snap decision. This is not like picking up a pack of gum or the Weekly World News in the supermarket check out line. A cheater makes the calculated decision to remove their ring, or hide the truth of their involvement from the AP, they then make the conscious and calculated decision to take the interaction to a secluded location, undress, and then engage in the act. It is not like they are just walking along out in public and trip "INTO/ ONTO" another person's genitalia and have to make the decision of landing "in/on" the genitalia of another or the cold hard floor/ground. It is a calculated decision the entire time and during which the cheater has several opportunities to stop it and reverse their decision along the way before the infidelity occurs. 

The suspicions stem from the actions of the spouse/ partner. They are generally hiding something or acting strangely so that creates suspicions and causes one to spy. If the spouse/ partner gives no reason to be suspicious no one will spy, so spying is a result of their actions.

Also no one is going to be 100% happy 100% of the time in any relationships and communication needs to be a key factor to keep the relationship alive and not just hoping on eternal and everlasting happiness. Sometimes in periods within a relationship, being content is the best that can be hoped for, that is why vows are for better or worse, sickness and health, and good times and bad.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

alwayshere said:


> I have posted here before looking for advice about keylogger. Thanks to everyone who responded. I now have 2 questions about this.
> 
> 1. I know very little about computers. Will it be best for me to purchase keylogger from one computer then install on the computer I want to monitor? I am worried about leaving any kind of trace that it is there.


What you do is your own business. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Here are some things to consider when you weigh the risks vs. benefits that aren't spoken of much on TAM:

Use of this genre of software on another adult without their permission is a felony in about half the states of the U.S. It does not matter who owns the machine or if the person to me monitored is your spouse. 

Additionally it is a violation of federal wiretap statutes and only one of our circuit courts has ruled that this protection does not extend into the marital union. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. I'm saying you should consult with someone familiar with the laws in your area if at all possible before you do.

Another thing you should take into account before you make your decision is the computer literacy of the target. Some of the free stuff will actually show an icon in the system tray for a split second while the machine boots up. Even some of the more sophisticated stuff can cause tiny split second freezes in cursor movement when a screen shot is taken. A casual user might not infer anything from this, but a sophisticated user could. 

All of this stuff is detectable.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> The risk with posting things is that internet security is far from perfect. It is possible that someone here knows me in real life. After many posts they might realize who I am. Its even possible my partner is on this site. Then any private information I have posted about myself or my partner is no longer private.


So assuming someone did figure out it was you, how could posting that you have never cheated affect you, your friends, or your partner negatively any way?? 

Would they be mad that you hadn't cheated? 

Would they alienate you since they were all cheaters, so effectively kick you out of the elusive cheater's club they have established? 

As I see it, they would only be upset if you had lied about it previously for whatever reason, but why would someone lie and say they had cheated (unless they were trolling on websites, in which case they get whatever results they deserve from doing that).


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> cheating can be a snap decision, spying is a calculated action.


I guess if a person gets drunk and has a one night stand, you could consider the decision to cheat, a "snap decision" even if it takes a couple of hours to get from wherever they met to the place they have sex. But this is atypical, most cheating is done over the course of time: weeks, months or even years. How can you possibly suggest this sort of thing to be a "snap decision"?



richardsharpe said:


> Where we disagree is in the need for proof. Imagine you thought it was likely that your partner was cheating. If you spied on them, your suspicious would not go away - you would just assume you hadn't caught them yet.


You make a lot of assumptions Richard. You assume that if a person has some suspicions and they look for proof, they won't find it and they'll continue to believe something is going on, they just haven't found it yet. How about, a person is suspicious, they find proof, and now they have the concrete evidence they need to support what will be a life changing decision, sometimes involving children. How about, in some states, proof of infidelity will give the betrayed spouse a larger share of the marital assets after divorce? How about, a person has suspicions, they do their spying, and after some period of time they realize it was all in their head and they stop spying and they go back to business as usual?



richardsharpe said:


> A relationship isn't a competition. It really doesn't matter who was wrong - if you are unhappy you should leave.


Oh, right. Just walk out of a 20 year marriage with children, and shared assets because of "unhappiness". Forget about talking it out, working through the problems and trying to fix things. In Richard's world, if you're unhappy, just leave. 



richardsharpe said:


> Proof may give you "righteous anger" but what is the point - you would be leaving anyway, so how does it matter if they know that you know?


Who said the person was leaving anyway? Besids you of course. You come up with this illogical sequence of events to be followed, and use that as a way to bolster yet another ridiculous argument.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Lenzi
you have a good point that if in your jurisdiction cheating may have legal implications, then monitoring may provide a benefit in divorce proceedings. I hadn't considered the legal aspects.:iagree: As another poster mentioned though, one should also check carefully about the legal aspects of monitoring someone and be sure that the information be used in court. 

I was only considering a situation where there are no legal / financial implications. In that case I still do not see what is gained by snooping. consider the options.

1), you suspect cheating. You snoop. You discover your partner is cheating. Presumably the reason you are checking is because you can't tolerate cheating, so you leave.

2). you suspect cheating. You snoop. You don't discover that your partner is cheating. But of course you don't that they are not cheating. Do you stay even though you still suspect - maybe they are just clever enough to cover their tracks. Probably you wait a while, then leave anyway because you are unhappy. 

Or - if you are willing to stay in a relationship where you are unhappy (for financial or other reasons), then what difference if they did or didn't cheat - you are unhappy either way.

I'm really not trying to fight. I understand that most people view this sort of thing differently than I do, and I am trying to understand how you and others think. The same way most people have a strong negative gut reaction to cheating, I have a strong negative gut reaction to being spied on or mistrusted. As I said, for me I would much prefer my partner to cheat, then to spy on me.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

> ....cheating may have legal implications, then monitoring may provide a benefit in divorce proceedings.


Here is an excerpt from a handout on this subject prepared by an attorney (State of Virginia) and expert in computer forensics:

"Clearly an attorney cannot threaten a criminal charge. However, we've seen the use of spyware used as a trump card time and again. Once the use of spyware is proven, all the attorney needs to do is communicate that fact to the other side's counsel for the implications to be clear."​
In other words, information gathered illegally is not only of questionable value in a legal proceeding, the fact that it was gathered illegally will put a weapon in the hands of the other person in and of itself.


"Sometimes, this is done in the course of deposition where the deponent will deny under oath having used spyware, only to have the evidence shown to them."​
Perjury during a deposition doesn't help things either. 


"Likewise, if they take the Fifth, but the evidence is extant, it is clear to all what the risks are. to put it bluntly, cases in which the use of spyware can be proven tend to settle quickly."​
This person's website can be found here Expert testimony in family law cases is becoming a lucrative niche market.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I used a keylogger simply because I wanted to know what was happening. WS always said just old friends for 40 odd years, general talk, catching up etc. That was a pack of lies!! I had the logger on the home computer from May until this past Feb. I found all I needed to know that it was way more than an old friendship. They planned a life together or mostly she did. She also sent along porn pics and vids of herself. OW is near 60 but acted like a 16 year old. I deleted the program because I was afraid he would try to find it and because I did not care to read anymore of her filth. You can never un-read what you have read so be ready to accept whatever you find if you install a logger. 

I am glad I bought one because it let me see exactly how my WS was. We have been trying to make it work but doubt it will because I simply think they correspond when he is at work. He says he cut her off but I don't think she would stop.

My logger was only $69 because it was on special but I would have paid the reg price of $99.


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks pollywog. I did install it and tried it out to test but found no recorded data. I did the help chat and was told it installed successfully but I still see nothing. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

My data was sent to an email account I set up just for that. It recorded everything that happened on that computer. I got reports every 30 mins when he was on that computer.


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