# Why don't men today care as much about their appearance?



## ReformedHubby

Warning, this is a fashion rant so I'm not at all expecting this thread to get much traction. 

For the past couple of years I'm concerned that a lot of men (American men in particular) just don't give a crap about their appearance anymore. On TAM we focus a lot on weight lifting for men, which is good but to be honest a lot of guys need help on the appearance part too.

When I look at the MLB,NFL, and NBA films from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, take a look at the crowd. All the men are decked out with jackets, ties, trench coats, fedoras, etc. etc. No wonder they weren't sexless, they had all kinds of swag. What has happened to us? Did the business casual transition do this to us or did something else? 

Lots of men today don't even have a decent suit, even when they do have one for weddings and other occasions they don't look comfortable in it, and they complain about having to wear one. Also the art of shining shoes is gone too. What's the point of wearing a nice suit if your shoes are dusty and scuffed. This isn't about money either. It doesn't cost that much to look decent.

Its gotten to the point that men point out other men for "over" dressing in offices. I guess I'd just like to see us maintain pride in our appearance. I'd challenge anyone that would disagree with this to walk around your town one day in a well cut suit. You'll notice a lot more attention from the ladies than you would in your dockers and polo shirt. Apologies for the rant, I guess I'm just paranoid that twenty years from now men will be wearing sweat pants to work. Does anybody else out there think that men are slipping when it comes to personal appearance?


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## WyshIknew

Could be.

I hate feeling scruffy unless I am doing building type work on the house.

Can't help but make the correlation of scruffy dress = scruffy person.


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## ReformedHubby

WyshIknew said:


> Could be.
> 
> I hate feeling scruffy unless I am doing building type work on the house.
> 
> Can't help but make the correlation of scruffy dress = scruffy person.


True, but you're from the UK so you're exempt. All of the guys from England I know dress dapper and clean up quite well on formal occasions. I think you guys invented the ticket pocket on suits, thanks for that.


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## catfan

I do love those old movies, clothes, hats etc. Classy! It seems looks matter for females now, men don't have to look a certain way indeed  unfair


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## richie33

I work a very blue collar job, so for me it's a way of life. But when we go out I try my best to put myself together.


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## ReformedHubby

catfan said:


> I do love those old movies, clothes, hats etc. Classy! It seems looks matter for females now, men don't have to look a certain way indeed  unfair


Well, my theory is that men traded class for comfort. I don't think women feel this way. I say this because they wear all sorts of things that catch the eye and look awesome but I can't imagine that everything they wear is comfortable.


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## ScarletBegonias

I went with DH to help him buy his first real suit.He ended up leaving with two

We have sort of a bohemian look about us mostly and I love it. I do wish more people would get prettied up to go out to eat though.I hate sitting in a restaurant with people who look like they just rolled out of bed. 

But that's my materialistic side speaking.


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## jld

A lot of American men are overweight. Maybe that has something to do with it?

My dh is French, and usually just wears dress pants and a dress shirt to work, no tie. He does have a suit, but just one, that he has worn for interviews or maybe a very fancy dinner.

Casually, he just wears Levi's and a flannel shirt, or a polo shirt in the summer. He likes our boys to wear shirts with collars, so prefers polo shirts for them to T-shirts.

Dh is 6'2", 200 lbs., and has been so since we met 21 years ago. He exercises, mostly on an exercise bike (he did a lot of cycling in his youth, and still loves it), though he has run at times, too. He just seems to easily maintain his weight.

I think you're looking at appearance, RH, but what is really attractive about a man, and what motivates how we perceive his appearance, is his confidence. It just radiates through him, completely.

The French are confident people. Some people say they are arrogant, but I am not sure that is it. Dh is certainly not arrogant. But he definitely has a solid core. As one poster told me, dh knows who he is, what he believes in, and what he will tolerate. And that is what seems to be in short supply among men.


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## tornado

I think people in general care less. Not just men


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## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> Does anybody else out there think that men are slipping when it comes to personal appearance?


Yep.

Not to mention persona hygiene too.

Long nails,
Crappy haircut,
Bad Breath,
Body Odors,
Yellow Teeth,
Nose Hair,

And the list goes on.


It doesn't cost much for one to look decent. All it takes is the will and a little time.
A little goes a long way.

Back in my younger days , the _" Gentleman's Quarterly "_ [ GQ] was my fashion bible.

I always say it, women take care of themselves all the time. They go out of their way to look good because they know eyes are always on them.

But it's like men forget that eyes are also on them.

The way you dress is a form of expression.


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## ReformedHubby

richie33 said:


> I work a very blue collar job, so for me it's a way of life. But when we go out I try my best to put myself together.


I apologize if it came across like I was knocking blue collar guys, mass white collar work is fairly new. I'd imagine that most of the men from the past were also blue collar, but on Sunday's I bet they looked sharp in church.

True story my great grandfather was widower, who was a farmer his whole life. Every day he would work the fields, but every evening he would clean up, put on a suit, sit on the porch and smoke a cigar. I know it sounds weird. I guess you'd have to know him.


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## sh987

It's funny that you mention this, as it's something I've thought about several times over the years. I like to dress well. Not showy or too much for the situation, but definitely not the Adidas track suit, ripped up jeans, etc.

I picked up my son from his friend's house a couple of months ago, and was talking to the kid's Dad. I was wearing a pair of decent khakis, a zip-up sweater up to my neck, and a nice wool winter coat and a hat which is fairly dapper. I was wearing nice stuff, but was hardly looking like a dandy. This guy: "Oh, you guys going out to dinner after?"

Mind you, where we live is definitely a down to earth/conservative area, but I still don't see the excuse for people wearing track pants to a decent restaurant, or shorts and sneakers to the ballet (took my wife to Romeo & Juliet for X-Mas and saw that).

I don't know if clothes make the man, but I'm more inclined to take somebody seriously if they're dressed better.


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## Philat

I have no particular answer for the question, reformed, but I can say that I have been struck by how often "nowadays" you see couples out on the town, for dinner, etc. and the woman is dressed nicely (even if casually) while the man has on baggy shorts or pants, a t-shirt that says "She's with stupid," and a moronic-looking backwards baseball hat that just screams "I'm a doofus."


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## richie33

ReformedHubby said:


> I apologize if it came across like I was knocking blue collar guys, mass white collar work is fairly new. I'd imagine that most of the men from the past were also blue collar, but on Sunday's I bet they looked sharp in church.
> 
> True story my great grandfather was widower, who was a farmer his whole life. Every day he would work the fields, but every evening he would clean up, put on a suit, sit on the porch and smoke a cigar. I know it sounds weird. I guess you'd have to know him.


No apology needed.
All you have to do is look at how young guys are dressed to take a girl on a date.....jeans and sneakers, I see it all the time.


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## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> _I think you're looking at appearance, RH, but what is really attractive about a man, and what motivates how we perceive his appearance, is his confidence. It just radiates through him, completely._


Your husband sounds like a good man. Just curious though would you agree that appearance matters more when its a first impression?

On a side note I'll admit I am biased against business casual. I actually don't allow it for my staff at work. I'm not a total stick in the mud though. We do business casual Fridays during the summer. Some of the younger guys balk at it but when they see how their wives and girlfriends react to their new wardrobes they change their tune. Female employees don't complain about the policy at all.


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## ReformedHubby

sh987 said:


> It's funny that you mention this, as it's something I've thought about several times over the years. I like to dress well. Not showy or too much for the situation, but definitely not the Adidas track suit, ripped up jeans, etc.
> 
> I picked up my son from his friend's house a couple of months ago, and was talking to the kid's Dad. I was wearing a pair of decent khakis, a zip-up sweater up to my neck, and a nice wool winter coat and a hat which is fairly dapper. I was wearing nice stuff, but was hardly looking like a dandy. This guy: "Oh, you guys going out to dinner after?"
> 
> Mind you, where we live is definitely a down to earth/conservative area, but I still don't see the excuse for people wearing track pants to a decent restaurant, or shorts and sneakers to the ballet (took my wife to Romeo & Juliet for X-Mas and saw that).
> 
> I don't know if clothes make the man, but I'm more inclined to take somebody seriously if they're dressed better.


Good to know I'm not alone. My wife love's broadway plays. When we go we notice people in jeans all the time as if its a trip to a matinee movie. 

I think the women that put time and effort into their appearance deserve more than we are giving them on our end in terms of our effort.


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## jld

ReformedHubby said:


> Your husband sounds like a good man. Just curious though would you agree that appearance matters more when its a first impression?
> 
> On a side note I'll admit I am biased against business casual. I actually don't allow it for my staff at work. I'm not a total stick in the mud though. We do business casual Fridays during the summer. Some of the younger guys balk at it but when they see how their wives and girlfriends react to their new wardrobes they change their tune. Female employees don't complain about the policy at all.


That's interesting. When I met dh, he had just come from work and was in his work clothes, again, dress pants and dress shirt, no tie. Dh is tall, and just has a very confident air, and yes, that did make an impression (think, executive). 

And he is French. That accent does a number on any woman, I think. I see it in the way women view him and treat him, though he doesn't seem to notice it.

When you say you are against business casual, you mean your male employees have to wear a tie to work? Or a whole suit?


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## anchorwatch

I agree, RH. When I'm with another man who tells me I'm overdressed, he's trying to guilt me, because he doesn't care enough to look good. 

I took the wife out to a steak house for V'day. She was dressed to the nines. I put on a sharp blazer, high collar, slacks, polished shoes, and a smile about how good we looked. When I looked around the restaurant, all I could do was shake my head at what I saw. Polos, dockers, a few jeans and one fellow who actually wore white socks and sneakers. Yet, their ladies were all dressed appropriately. They just don't care. 

And we wonder what happened to the American man's sexuality. Meh.. They'll fine out real quick when someone hits on their woman in front of them.


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## sh987

Philat said:


> I have no particular answer for the question, reformed, but I can say that I have been struck by how often "nowadays" you see couples out on the town, for dinner, etc. and the woman is dressed nicely (even if casually) while the man has on baggy shorts or pants, a t-shirt that says "She's with stupid," and a moronic-looking backwards baseball hat that just screams "I'm a doofus."


lol...

That one always gets me, too. We once saw a lady out with her husband: nice dress and shoes, took the time to coordinate, do he hair nicely, etc. Look over at her husband... he was wearing cut-offs (yes), a t-shirt which said "This t-shirt fvcking rules!" and a ball cap that said "Space For Rent".

Is it just me, by the way, or am I the only one who immediately refuses to take seriously a grown man wearing his ball cap backwards? Ten year old kid? Fine. An actual adult? Nope.


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## Philat

sh987 said:


> lol...
> 
> That one always gets me, too. We once saw a lady out with her husband: nice dress and shoes, took the time to coordinate, do he hair nicely, etc. Look over at her husband... he was wearing cut-offs (yes), a t-shirt which said "This t-shirt fvcking rules!" and a ball cap that said "Space For Rent".
> 
> *Is it just me, by the way, or am I the only one who immediately refuses to take seriously a grown man wearing his ball cap backwards? Ten year old kid? Fine. An actual adult? Nope.*


Exactly.


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## sh987

NotTooSure said:


> I do find it expensive to dress well. Even jeans today seem to cost a lot to me. I would love to dress well... but business casual is my environment and I can't image dressing up when I get home. If I overdressed at work people ask, "Going to a funeral/interview". So I blame employers for the lack of dress standards.


Other than things like milk, I never buy anything unless it's on sale. So, that goes for clothes, too.

But... Laugh if you will. Think me crazy if it strikes you... But, you may be stunned at what's available at thrift stores. I grew up extremely poor, and so "thriftiness" was something I came by pretty honestly, and I still go to these places. You can call me cheap, because I still wait for 50% days. Anyway... Often, you'll find great and expensive clothes there, never worn/tags still on them, etc, for a pittance.

Last year, I found a cashmere sport coat at Value Village for $4. Was amazing looking and feeling, and fit me like a glove.


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## samyeagar

ReformedHubby said:


> Warning, this is a fashion rant so I'm not at all expecting this thread to get much traction.
> 
> For the past couple of years I'm concerned that a lot of men (American men in particular) just don't give a crap about their appearance anymore. On TAM we focus a lot on weight lifting for men, which is good but to be honest a lot of guys need help on the appearance part too.
> 
> When I look at the MLB,NFL, and NBA films from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, take a look at the crowd. All the men are decked out with jackets, ties, trench coats, fedoras, etc. etc. *No wonder they weren't sexless, they had all kinds of swag.* What has happened to us? Did the business casual transition do this to us or did something else?
> 
> Lots of men today don't even have a decent suit, even when they do have one for weddings and other occasions they don't look comfortable in it, and they complain about having to wear one. Also the art of shining shoes is gone too. What's the point of wearing a nice suit if your shoes are dusty and scuffed. This isn't about money either. It doesn't cost that much to look decent.
> 
> Its gotten to the point that men point out other men for "over" dressing in offices. I guess I'd just like to see us maintain pride in our appearance. I'd challenge anyone that would disagree with this to walk around your town one day in a well cut suit. You'll notice a lot more attention from the ladies than you would in your dockers and polo shirt. Apologies for the rant, I guess I'm just paranoid that twenty years from now men will be wearing sweat pants to work. Does anybody else out there think that men are slipping when it comes to personal appearance?


I'm not so sure about the bolded. That generation is one of the places a lot of the stereotypes and attitudes about female sexuality, being gatekeepers, sexless marriages came from...


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## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> When you say you are against business casual, you mean your male employees have to wear a tie to work? Or a whole suit?


Well...I hate to answer this question because it may make me sound like a carmudgeon. But since you asked I'll be honest. I do require a tie. Not necessarily a suit but at least a sport coat and slacks. It may sound weird to you but if you someone can't make the effort to put on a tie in the morning they probably wouldn't fit in anyway.

Not at all knocking your hubby or his company's dress code, but it is my policy and it is very much noticed by my clients.


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## jld

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I hate to answer this question because it may make me sound like a carmudgeon. But since you asked I'll be honest. I do require a tie. Not necessarily a suit but at least a sport coat and slacks. It may sound weird to you but if you someone can't make the effort to put on a tie in the morning they probably wouldn't fit in anyway.
> 
> Not at all knocking your hubby or his company's dress code, but it is my policy and it is very much noticed by my clients.


It's always best to be honest, RH. I appreciate it.

Are you in the tech industry?


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## Eagle3

OP, interesting topic. My company not too long ago changed from standard business attire to casual. I maintain mostly the same dress but its funny to see people in regualr shirts and jeans conducting a meeting. If a client comes in you can see their expression of are you on vacation or something? I go by what my one boss told me long time ago. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have.


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## Married but Happy

It seems to be a growing trend, that people make no effort to look good most of the time. I almost long for the days when nicer restaurants had dress codes, because now when we go out, the men are in cutoffs and flip-flops (a few upgrade to athletic shoes, which are obviously never used for their designed purpose) and ratty t-shirts. The women are almost as bad most of the time, and even when they do make an effort, the men rarely do. If they do wear something other than a t-shirt, it's a version of the same ugly plaid shirt that every other guy around is wearing.

As for cost, a nice shirt and pair of pants can cost less than a pair of jeans, especially if you stock up during after-season sales.


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## jld

Eagle3 said:


> OP, interesting topic. My company not too long ago changed from standard business attire to casual. I maintain mostly the same dress but its funny to see people in regualr shirts and jeans conducting a meeting. If a client comes in you can see their expression of are you on vacation or something? I go by what my one boss told me long time ago. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have.


What do you wear to work, Eagle?


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## MysteryMan1

I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with jeans and sneakers? I usually don't concern myself with what another man is wearing.


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## ReformedHubby

anchorwatch said:


> I agree, RH. When I'm with another man who tells me I'm overdressed, he's trying to guilt me, because he doesn't care enough to look good.


Yep, it happens all the time. No women has ever told me I dress too nice. But I hear it from men all the time. Pops always told me to dress for the job you want, not the one you've got.

I think many men are missing out, especially the single ones. Dressing nice these days is rare. You would really stand out.


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## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> It's always best to be honest, RH. I appreciate it.
> 
> Are you in the tech industry?


Yep, I'm in the tech industry. I'll admit that many of my male employees fit the sterotype, so I actually enjoy watching them go from complaining about the policy to eventually starting to actually like their new look. I'll admit though that not all of them get used to it. No one quits over it though.


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## RClawson

Since I left the corporate world this is one thing that I miss. Dressing like you are really going to work and looking like you have a job that matters. "Casual Fridays" were a bit mistake in my mind.

I grew up in selling shoes and suits. If I put a suit on I turn from troll to trophy man in minutes. A couple of years ago I was at a funeral for a friend from the local dog park. Most of my friends from the park are seniors and I happened to be sitting next to a woman that is in her mid 70's. She sits next to me sees me in my formal attire and whispers in my ear "You look good enough to eat. If I was 25 years younger you do not leave this place without me". I about fell out of the pew laughing.

The "hipsters" and most youth of today look like overgrown elementary kids with the way they dress. It really is laughable.


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## Eagle3

_What do you wear to work, Eagle?_

Dress shirts and slacks majority of the time. If I have an important meeting or presentation to do I wear a suit. On Friday’s sometimes if a lot of people are out of the office or whatever I will wear khaki’s and a button down or something.


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## sh987

Married but Happy said:


> It seems to be a growing trend, that people make no effort to look good most of the time. I almost long for the days when nicer restaurants had dress codes, because now when we go out, the men are in cutoffs and flip-flops (a few upgrade to athletic shoes, which are obviously never used for their designed purpose) and ratty t-shirts. *The women are almost as bad most of the time, and even when they do make an effort, the men rarely do. If they do wear something other than a t-shirt, it's a version of the same ugly plaid shirt that every other guy around is wearing.*
> 
> As for cost, a nice shirt and pair of pants can cost less than a pair of jeans, especially if you stock up during after-season sales.


Yoga pants. I can't speak for any place other than where I live, but women around here are bad for wearing yoga pants everywhere. To the mall, grocery store, restaurants, a show, etc, etc, etc.

My wife has worn hers out one single time. She came back a pilates class two years ago, and I had to go the ER about five minutes after she got back home. Literally, the only time she's worn them out was in the case of emergency. It's a pet peeve of hers (she likes to dress well) and would never do it otherwise.


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## ReformedHubby

sh987 said:


> Yoga pants. I can't speak for any place other than where I live, but women around here are bad for wearing yoga pants everywhere. To the mall, grocery store, restaurants, a show, etc, etc, etc.


Well....I can't knock the yoga pants


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## tacoma

It is odd.

I'm a blue jeans and t-shirt kinda guy around the house but if I have to go out anywhere other than Home Depot I dress well.

I am always getting the comment "Where are you going all dressed up?" by people who don't see me often.

I'm usually just wearing a button down and slacks or even a good pair of jeans when this happens so I'm puzzled.

God forbid I'm wearing a blazer or topcoat when it's chilly.

Edit: 
Come to think of it after reading this thread the people who give me that comment are always men.
I've never had a woman say anything about my dress that wasn't complimentary.

I hadn't noticed that, thanks guys.


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## anchorwatch

*I have a son and six nephews, 18 to 26. I found this a way to reach them...*

*Women compare men. 

Which one do you think they'll choose?*










*Or?*


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## jld

All right, I just called dh about this. He said it depends on what sector you are in.

He works in manufacturing. Even the CEO of his company does not wear a tie every day, and no one else does at all. Dh told me that when he meets with customers, say Caterpillar, they are wearing company T-shirts. He said the trend in manufacturing is a work uniform, to give everyone the feeling they are all on the same team.

He mentioned that in Japan, his company has everyone wear the same uniform. In the factory he started in India, everyone, including him, wore the company uniform (no tie).

You know what works for your company, RH. You know what brings success in your sector.


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## ReformedHubby

RClawson said:


> Since I left the corporate world this is one thing that I miss. Dressing like you are really going to work and looking like you have a job that matters. "Casual Fridays" were a bit mistake in my mind.
> 
> I grew up in selling shoes and suits. If I put a suit on I turn from troll to trophy man in minutes. A couple of years ago I was at a funeral for a friend from the local dog park. Most of my friends from the park are seniors and I happened to be sitting next to a woman that is in her mid 70's. She sits next to me sees me in my formal attire and whispers in my ear "You look good enough to eat. If I was 25 years younger you do not leave this place without me". I about fell out of the pew laughing.


So true, I can remember getting my first job and being disappointed that I couldn't go to work dressed like my pops used to. I waited my whole life to look sharp going to work. At that time I decided screw it. I'm going to dress up anyway.

But yep, females do make comments. I came out of an elevator recently and I walked past a female security guard and she said "Damn!, Where you going at looking all good?". I just smiled at her and kept walking. I can guarantee you that jeans and sneakers would not have gotten that response.


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## jld

But anchorwatch, which one will she stay with? That's really the question, isn't it?

And we are talking business world v. personal, too.

Yes, there is something to the look, but I doubt RH is going to keep someone on staff just based on how he dresses. He has to produce.

And a woman is not going to stay with a man who is not at least as attractive internally as he is externally. Even a lot of money is not going to make that work long term, imo.


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## tacoma

sh987 said:


> Other than things like milk, I never buy anything unless it's on sale. So, that goes for clothes, too.
> 
> But... Laugh if you will. Think me crazy if it strikes you... But, you may be stunned at what's available at thrift stores. I grew up extremely poor, and so "thriftiness" was something I came by pretty honestly, and I still go to these places. You can call me cheap, because I still wait for 50% days. Anyway... Often, you'll find great and expensive clothes there, never worn/tags still on them, etc, for a pittance.
> 
> Last year, I found a cashmere sport coat at Value Village for $4. Was amazing looking and feeling, and fit me like a glove.



I've found a lot of expensive name brand dress shirts at the Salvation Army store.

Bought two brand new shirts a few weeks ago for $5.00.

Thrifty tip:

Thrift stores often run a weekly half price sale but they are swamped on the sale day and unless you get there early prepared for battle there's nothing good left.

Our Salvation Army store does this every Wednesday so my wife will stop by after work on a Tuesday, find the items she likes and "hides" them in a different department.(Womens clothes in the mens section and visa versa).

Then she'll just drop in on Wednesday go to where she stashed the clothes and grab them.


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## ScarletBegonias

I need variety in a man's appearance.I discovered that recently. 

DH usually wears khakis and a nice sweater or polo to the office.He was in the field the other week and came home in filthy jeans,dirty workbooks and an old navy blue polo..untucked.

I pinned him against the wall and could NOT stop kissing him and pawing all over him. LOL

Same thing happens when he puts on a shirt and tie. 
I'm also fond of the barefoot,running pants,and white undershirt look.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I hate to answer this question because it may make me sound like a carmudgeon. But since you asked I'll be honest. I do require a tie. Not necessarily a suit but at least a sport coat and slacks. It may sound weird to you but if you someone can't make the effort to put on a tie in the morning they probably wouldn't fit in anyway.
> 
> Not at all knocking your hubby or his company's dress code, but it is my policy and it is very much noticed by my clients.


I used to work at a company that had very strict standards regarding dress. Blue or grey suit, white shirt, conservative tie. I worked at HQ with a few thousand other people and never saw a customer. I rarely saw an executive. The closest I ever came to seeing anybody at a VP level or above was when the helicopter came in and I could see them through the window. I was a computer programmer sitting in a cubicle all day. It was ridiculous. By the end of the day I just wanted to get out of there so I could take my tie off. The environment was rigid, constricting and did not promote creativity.

I think dress code should be appropriate for the job.


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## ReformedHubby

samyeagar said:


> I'm not so sure about the bolded. That generation is one of the places a lot of the stereotypes and attitudes about female sexuality, being gatekeepers, sexless marriages came from...


I did not know that. I can't pretend to know what marriage was like back then. I've also heard some say that there were less "nice guys" back then. I wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg?


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## jld

ReformedHubby said:


> I did not know that. I can't pretend to know what marriage was like back then. I've also heard some say that there were less "nice guys" back then. I wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg?


Well, real life was not like the movies, then or now, I'm sure.

Yes, I think there were fewer "nice guys." I had not even heard that term before about six months ago.

But let's be honest, there were all kinds of other problems. Wife beating, child abuse, back door abortions, all kinds of civil rights violations . . . I am sure none of us wants to go back to all that.

I think you're trying to combine the most appealing of the past with the most appealing of today, which makes total sense.


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## Kria

anchorwatch said:


> *I have a son and six nephews, 18 to 26. I found this a way to reach them...*
> 
> *Women compare men.
> 
> Which one do you think they'll choose?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Or?*


A suit and tie can have its place at times but I don't always find it so impressive because it can look generic, boring and just plain cookie cutter.

Out of these two pictures I would have no problem choosing the guy in the second picture. His hair is styled nicely and he has a nice body. The dark pants are a nice choice so it isn't too casual. I'm not always into logo shirts but the darker blue color is also a nice choice and again it can be seen from the shirt that he is in good shape.


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## anchorwatch

jld said:


> But anchorwatch, which one will she stay with? That's really the question, isn't it?
> 
> And we are talking business world v. personal, too.
> 
> Yes, there is something to the look, but I doubt RH is going to keep someone on staff just based on how he dresses. He has to produce.
> 
> And a woman is not going to stay with a man who is not at least as attractive internally as he is externally. Even a lot of money is not going to make that work long term, imo.


Its not an exact science, but that's the point. A simple gauge of a man is if he takes pride in his looks, he will take pride in the other important parts of his life, that make up the whole integrated man. Its up to the woman to do her due diligence from there.


----------



## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> But anchorwatch, which one will she stay with? That's really the question, isn't it?
> 
> And we are talking business world v. personal, too.
> 
> Yes, there is something to the look, but I doubt RH is going to keep someone on staff just based on how he dresses. He has to produce.
> 
> And a woman is not going to stay with a man who is not at least as attractive internally as he is externally. Even a lot of money is not going to make that work long term, imo.


I'm not sure that's his point. I think he wants to get across to the lads which man makes the better first impression?

Working on the inside is great, but in my opinion there is an epidemic of men literally letting themselves go, and a younger generation of men growing up that don't even know what it is to dress up. I just think we've lost something that's all, though I can't quite grasp what it is.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> A suit and tie can have its place at times but I don't always find it so impressive because it can look generic, boring and just plain cookie cutter.
> 
> Out of these two pictures I would have no problem choosing the guy in the second picture. His hair is styled nicely and he has a nice body. The dark pants are a nice choice so it isn't too casual. I'm not always into logo shirts but the darker blue color is also a nice choice and again it can be seen from the shirt that he is in good shape.


Ok, but one guy is in his mid 40s and the other guy is late teens to early 20s. Not really an apples to apples comparison.

Let me add ... I think Daniel Craig looks sharp and that is a look I could see myself doing ... minus the sunglasses and comb-over, lol. Cookie cutter? Cookie cutter these days is jeans/slacks and a t-shirt. Few men dress like Bond these days so it seems far from generic.


----------



## tacoma

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm not sure that's his point. I think he wants to get across to the lads which man makes the better first impression?
> 
> Working on the inside is great, but in my opinion there is an epidemic of men literally letting themselves go, and a younger generation of men growing up that don't even know what it is to dress up. I just think we've lost something that's all, though I can't quite grasp what it is.


I haven't seen either of my two twentysomething step-sons dressed decently since they were in grade school.

Bought the youngest a nice black blazer a couple of Christmas' ago.

I'll never see it on him.


----------



## Redpill

RClawson said:


> The "hipsters" and most youth of today look like overgrown elementary kids with the way they dress. It really is laughable.


Yes, and yes.


----------



## sinnister

The relative cost of living has changed.

Buying cuff links, a fedora and nice suit and tie now relative to your salary is far less afordable than it was back then.

Well dressed men today put a ton of money into it. Everytime I go to the men store more often than not I leave there in a rage because of how unessarily expensive everything in there is compared to the quality your getting.

That's my rant.


----------



## anchorwatch

Kria said:


> A suit and tie can have its place at times but I don't always find it so impressive because it can look generic, boring and just plain cookie cutter.
> 
> Out of these two pictures I would have no problem choosing the guy in the second picture. His hair is styled nicely and he has a nice body. The dark pants are a nice choice so it isn't too casual. I'm not always into logo shirts but the darker blue color is also a nice choice and again it can be seen from the shirt that he is in good shape.


I have no problem with that. There's always going to be some competition from the teen idol, geeks, parrot heads, bikers, and even Marlboro men. I never saw a point to find someone who was in that market. I don't see that as a quality standard, but that's just me. It has given me a step up in life all these years and I convey that to them, for their choice.


----------



## ReformedHubby

sinnister said:


> The relative cost of living has changed.
> 
> Buying cuff links, a fedora and nice suit and tie now relative to your salary is far less afordable than it was back then.
> 
> Well dressed men today put a ton of money into it. Everytime I go to the men store more often than not I leave there in a rage because of how unessarily expensive everything in there is compared to the quality your getting.
> 
> That's my rant.


Fair statement, but even casual clothes cost a lot. It can definitely be done cheaper if you know where and when to look.


----------



## jld

ReformedHubby said:


> Fair statement, but even casual clothes cost a lot. It can definitely be done cheaper if you know where and when to look.


Well, this is true. All clothing seems expensive, which is strange, considering it is made in low cost countries.

RH, you just basically want men to dress up more, right? To have more pride in their appearance? Maybe you would like men to just know this when they come to your company, and not have it even be a question in their minds as to how you would like them to dress? Basically, it should be something the culture has already taught them?


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok, but one guy is in his mid 40s and the other guy is late teens to early 20s. Not really an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> Let me add ... I think Daniel Craig looks sharp and that is a look I could see myself doing ... minus the sunglasses and comb-over, lol. Cookie cutter? Cookie cutter these days is jeans/slacks and a t-shirt. Few men dress like Bond these days so it seems far from generic.


I can compare the two because Daniel Craig also has a nice body but I was also comparing styles. 

I'm just not overly impressed with suits. They are not the pinnacle of dress to me. I would prefer to see a man in a dress shirt and slacks without the jacket and tie. It looks more comfortable and can be mixed and matched more to individual tastes.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> I can compare the two because Daniel Craig also has a nice body but I was also comparing styles.
> 
> I'm just not overly impressed with suits. They are not the pinnacle of dress to me. I would prefer to see a man in a dress shirt and slacks without the jacket and tie. It looks more comfortable and can be mixed and matched more to individual tastes.


Well, I'm not comparing bodies or levels of attractiveness ... I'll defer to you on that one, lol. Everybody I know dresses in a nice shirt and slacks these days ... typical business casual. Every guy looks like every other guy. Usually when I see a guy come in dressed in a sharp suit and tie it immediately creates a different impression ... one that says that this guy has his act together. I might take that guy more seriously by default. Of course, if everybody dressed like that then it wouldn't create that impression.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I live in hipster city so I've had to get used to a whole new standard of "dressed up". Basically if you don't wear your pajamas to the store, you are "dressed up".

My husband always looks great, though. Not a hipster.


----------



## Eagle3

_I'm just not overly impressed with suits. They are not the pinnacle of dress to me. I would prefer to see a man in a dress shirt and slacks without the jacket and tie. It looks more comfortable and can be mixed and matched more to individual tastes._

This I like too and more if i am not at work. I think a pair of nice looking jeans with a dress shirt can look just as good on a person. Especially with the sleeved rolled up showing a nice watch.


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, I'm not comparing bodies or levels of attractiveness ... I'll defer to you on that one, lol. Everybody I know dresses in a nice shirt and slacks these days ... typical business casual. Every guy looks like every other guy. Usually when I see a guy come in dressed in a sharp suit and tie it immediately creates a different impression ... one that says that this guy has his act together. I might take that guy more seriously by default. Of course, if everybody dressed like that then it wouldn't create that impression.


What matters to me is that a man looks well kempt and not like a bum. He doesn't have to wear a suit to accomplish that when there are so many other in between choices.

Wearing a suit doesn't necessarily make me take someone more seriously especially when so many religious, political and business men hypocrites wear them like a wolf in sheep's clothing.


----------



## jld

I feel like I can pretty easily look past appearances. I am listening for intelligence and depth of character.

Yes, dh was tall, dark, and handsome, but it was the confidence and intelligence (okay, and that French accent ) that hooked me in. And the longer I knew him, the trust just grew and grew.

I want people to dress in whatever way makes them comfortable, and . . . _themselves._ I really want to know who they are.


----------



## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> RH, you just basically want men to dress up more, right? To have more pride in their appearance? Maybe you would like men to just know this when they come to your company, and not have it even be a question in their minds as to how you would like them to dress? Basically, it should be something the culture has already taught them?


That would be nice, but that's the problem (in my opinion). As a culture we have moved away from it. I can't say that anyone ever quit because of the dress code but its conceivable that some declined offers because of it but just didn't want to acknowledge that was the reason.

Not really a fan of ZZ Top but this song fits this thread.

ZZ Top - Sharp Dressed Man (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO) - YouTube


----------



## sinnister

ReformedHubby said:


> Fair statement, but even casual clothes cost a lot. It can definitely be done cheaper if you know where and when to look.


This is also relative. For example, if you live in a rural or suburban area you have far less choices than you would in the city.

Also if you're a more hefty gentlemen such as myself, if you buy a $30 dollar shirt it's not going to look as good on you as the $80 dollar shirt. But a guy in great shape will look good regardless of the cut/stiching.

Great, now you got me sounding like a girl talking about how clothes fit and stuff....


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> What matters to me is that a man looks well kempt and not like a bum. He doesn't have to wear a suit to accomplish that when there are so many other in between choices.
> 
> Wearing a suit doesn't necessarily make me take someone more seriously especially when so many religious, political and business men hypocrites wear them like a wolf in sheep's clothing.


I can't disagree. I've focused on suits but lets be honest there are many shades of casual. I think today's men could use some help there too. Even casual has become a bit too casual for quite a few.


----------



## jld

sinnister said:


> Great, now you got me sounding like a girl talking about how clothes fit and stuff....


Lol, sinnister.


----------



## ReformedHubby

sinnister said:


> This is also relative. For example, if you live in a rural or suburban area you have far less choices than you would in the city.
> 
> Also if you're a more hefty gentlemen such as myself, if you buy a $30 dollar shirt it's not going to look as good on you as the $80 dollar shirt. But a guy in great shape will look good regardless of the cut/stiching.
> 
> Great, now you got me sounding like a girl talking about how clothes fit and stuff....


LOL, you were warned in the opening post that it was a fashion thread. Due to my height I have limited options too. A store might have 200 suits but only four that would fit me. Luckily these days there are a handful of companies that will come to your house to measure you, let you pick patterns, and make your suit and shirts for pretty close to what you'd pay buying it off the rack.


----------



## jld

ReformedHubby said:


> I can't disagree. I've focused on suits but lets be honest there are many shades of casual. I think today's men could use some help there too. Even casual has become a bit too casual for quite a few.


Is it that you don't like the way clothing or hygiene reflects an attitude of _I don't care_? That appearance can indicate disrespect, even?


----------



## ReformedHubby

jld said:


> Is it that you don't like the way clothing or hygiene reflects an attitude of _I don't care_? That appearance can indicate disrespect, even?


I don't think anyone's appearance would indicate disrespect towards me, but depending on their appearance it could certainly indicate the level of respect they have for themselves.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> I can't disagree. I've focused on suits but lets be honest there are many shades of casual. I think today's men could use some help there too. Even casual has become a bit too casual for quite a few.


That is why I said there are so many choices in between the extremes of wearing a suit and looking like a bum. 

So much depends on individual circumstances and preferences. There is not a one size fits all solution. What looks good on one person may not on another.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> What matters to me is that a man looks well kempt and not like a bum. He doesn't have to wear a suit to accomplish that when there are so many other in between choices.
> 
> Wearing a suit doesn't necessarily make me take someone more seriously especially when so many religious, political and business men hypocrites wear them like a wolf in sheep's clothing.


Well, I guess I won't waste my money on a new suit then ... god forbid I look like a shyster


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, I guess I won't waste my money on a new suit then ... god forbid I look like a shyster


LOL! Let's also not forget how lawyers have many of the criminals that they defend dress up in suits in court.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> I can't disagree. I've focused on suits but lets be honest there are many shades of casual. I think today's men could use some help there too. Even casual has become a bit too casual for quite a few.


Is this acceptable enough for you?


----------



## tacoma

Kria said:


> Is this acceptable enough for you?


Why are those guys wearing someone else's pants?


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> Is this acceptable enough for you?


Yep, those guys have swag. Beats jeans and sneakers. Its not something I would wear but they are making an effort. To me that's what its all about. Just make an effort. Don't just roll out of bed and throw something on. 

I used the example of suits but honestly even a suit can be worn incorrectly. So many young men with no experience buying one can end up with something unflattering. Or even worse they wear one but don't even bother to iron the suit or the shirt. I know I sound nit picky but these are things my parents drilled into my head. That came second nature to them. How many boys in high school can't even tie a tie today. I'd bet the number is staggeringly high.

My mother, who is a beautiful woman. Said the first thing she noticed about my pops was his smile and his shiny shoes.

Edit: Also, the guys in the photo give a crap about their hair, that's important too.


----------



## anchorwatch

You can pay what you want, but a classic wardrobe does not need to be expensive...

22 Things Under $100 That Every Man Should Have In His Closet


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

ReformedHubby said:


> Yep, those guys have swag. Beats jeans and sneakers. Its not something I would wear but they are making an effort. To me that's what its all about. Just make an effort. Don't just roll out of bed and throw something on.
> 
> I used the example of suits but honestly even a suit can be worn incorrectly. So many young men with no experience buying one can end up with something unflattering. Or even worse they wear one but don't even bother to iron the suit or the shirt. I know I sound nit picky but these are things my parents drilled into my head. That came second nature to them. How many boys in high school can't even tie a tie today. I'd bet the number is staggeringly high.
> 
> My mother, who is a beautiful woman. Said the first thing she noticed about my pops was his smile and his shiny shoes.
> 
> Edit: Also, the guys in the photo give a crap about their hair, that's important too.


Sweaty feet in leather shoes ... that could get unpleasant.

We had a guy ... an executive ... at our office who used to do the whole sockless thing. He would then take his shoes off in meetings to air his feet out. Here's this guy in a dress shirt and tie with bare feet. It was a running joke in our office that shoes would be required at meetings.


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sweaty feet in leather shoes ... that could get unpleasant.
> 
> We had a guy ... an executive ... at our office who used to do the whole sockless thing. He would then take his shoes off in meetings to air his feet out. Here's this guy in a dress shirt and tie with bare feet. It was a running joke in our office that shoes would be required at meetings.


They do make socks, at least for women, that are very low below the ankle so they won't be seen while wearing shoes.


----------



## ReformedHubby

anchorwatch said:


> You can pay what you want, but a classic wardrobe does not need to be expensive...
> 
> 22 Things Under $100 That Every Man Should Have In His Closet


Awesome list. Except maybe the two referring to athletic gear. Admittedly I could care less what I look like when working out.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> They do make socks, at least for women, that are very low below the ankle so they won't be seen while wearing shoes.


Yeah, my daughters wear them ... in neon pink, green and yellow!

Actually, I have some black Nike dri fit socks that are close to that ... very low cut but they are still visible ... and only for the gym.


----------



## anchorwatch

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sweaty feet in leather shoes ... that could get unpleasant.
> 
> We had a guy ... an executive ... at our office who used to do the whole sockless thing. He would then take his shoes off in meetings to air his feet out. Here's this guy in a dress shirt and tie with bare feet. It was a running joke in our office that shoes would be required at meetings.


Toss these on his desk. He ought to get the hint...


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, my daughters wear them ... in neon pink, green and yellow!
> 
> Actually, I have some black Nike dri fit socks that are close to that ... very low cut but they are still visible ... and only for the gym.


The ones I have are not pink, green or yellow. I have white ones and black ones. I've seen other neutral colors too.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> The ones I have are not pink, green or yellow. I have white ones and black ones. I've seen other neutral colors too.


I know I was just joking ... they're 9 and 12 year old girls ... what's better than neon pink, green and yellow?

I haven't seen anything similar in the men's section ... but then again I haven't been looking so it's certainly possible they have them. I'm just assuming that most of these guys don't have socks on.


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I know I was just joking ... they're 9 and 12 year old girls ... what's better than neon pink, green and yellow?
> 
> I haven't seen anything similar in the men's section ... but then again I haven't been looking so it's certainly possible they have them. I'm just assuming that most of these guys don't have socks on.


Those guys need to pick up the socks in the women's department then.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> They do make socks, at least for women, that are very low below the ankle so they won't be seen while wearing shoes.


I was going to say this. No show socks are common. I wish I could say the same for my own. My wife picks out my socks. Lately she's been on some sort of Wizard of Oz wicked witch crazy stripe pattern vibe. I get compliments but honestly I don't get it at all. She does a good job picking ties though. I think most men tend to be a bit too conservative when it comes to that.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> Yep, those guys have swag. Beats jeans and sneakers. Its not something I would wear but they are making an effort. To me that's what its all about. Just make an effort. Don't just roll out of bed and throw something on.
> 
> I used the example of suits but honestly even a suit can be worn incorrectly. So many young men with no experience buying one can end up with something unflattering. Or even worse they wear one but don't even bother to iron the suit or the shirt. I know I sound nit picky but these are things my parents drilled into my head. That came second nature to them. How many boys in high school can't even tie a tie today. I'd bet the number is staggeringly high.
> 
> My mother, who is a beautiful woman. Said the first thing she noticed about my pops was his smile and his shiny shoes.
> 
> Edit: Also, the guys in the photo give a crap about their hair, that's important too.


I agree with this a lot. Having to deal with someone who doesn't seem to care much is unsettling and quite frankly a turn off.


----------



## U.E. McGill

My opinion? Americans are casual. I go to trade shows a lot. Both sides of the Atlantic. Here, 3 guys in 100 will come to the show in a suit. All Europeans. Go to a show over there? Everyone in suits, except the Americans. 

I dress for the occasion, and always just a little better than called for. Business casual? Dress shirt and sport coat. Party at a friends? Dark Jeans and a pressed shirt. 

Oh, and I have a tailor who does full alterations. I can't stand seeing a suit on a man that looks like someone is swimming in it.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> I agree with this a lot. Having to deal with someone who doesn't seem to care much is unsettling and quite frankly a turn off.


:iagree:

On TAM we all have our things we feel strongly about. This is one of mine. I guess I've always been bothered when men complain about their wives letting themselves go. Sometimes I just want to hold up a mirror and say, "Have you seen yourself"? Of course there are couples that take the plunge of the cliff together. No harm no foul there. It can be problematic though when both parties are headed in opposite directions.


----------



## ReformedHubby

U.E. McGill said:


> My opinion? Americans are casual. I go to trade shows a lot. Both sides of the Atlantic. Here, 3 guys in 100 will come to the show in a suit. All Europeans. Go to a show over there? Everyone in suits, except the Americans.
> 
> I dress for the occasion, and always just a little better than called for. Business casual? Dress shirt and sport coat. Party at a friends? Dark Jeans and a pressed shirt.
> 
> Oh, and I have a tailor who does full alterations. I can't stand seeing a suit on a man that looks like someone is swimming in it.


Yep, European men have kept their swag. That's why I singled out American men in my post. I didn't want to touch on the size thing but you're right. If your shirts and jackets have too much room you end up looking they are still on the hangar. It can be very unflattering. 

Its almost even more upsetting to me when I see a man that was trying to buy himself a nice suit but ended up looking not quite right. Truth be told if you don't know what you're looking for the floor sales associate can give you bad advice sometimes.


----------



## Eagle3

_I was going to say this. No show socks are common. I wish I could say the same for my own. My wife picks out my socks. Lately she's been on some sort of Wizard of Oz wicked witch crazy stripe pattern vibe. I get compliments but honestly I don't get it at all. She does a good job picking ties though. I think most men tend to be a bit too conservative when it comes to that._

Come on RH, you got to let the socks spice up the look once in a while, ha. It's funny you do say that, if i wear non straight color socks I will get compliments from women at work. And you are 100% on with women picking out ties better than men. I get some on my own but most part I let the wife go to town on that. To her a nice looking tie can make the suit go.


----------



## U.E. McGill

I can't stand double breasted suits, (so dated). I can't stand guys who loosen their tie while wearing it. I tie a full Windsor with the right shirt. If your gonna wear the uniform, wear it correctly. 

I can go on and on. 

My experience in sales has been generally a guy who looks like a slob is gonna be a slob in all aspects. Those are the guys who expect everything for free, yet can't reach their pockets.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Eagle3 said:


> _I was going to say this. No show socks are common. I wish I could say the same for my own. My wife picks out my socks. Lately she's been on some sort of Wizard of Oz wicked witch crazy stripe pattern vibe. I get compliments but honestly I don't get it at all. She does a good job picking ties though. I think most men tend to be a bit too conservative when it comes to that._
> 
> Come on RH, you got to let the socks spice up the look once in a while, ha. It's funny you do say that, if i wear non straight color socks I will get compliments from women at work. And you are 100% on with women picking out ties better than men. I get some on my own but most part I let the wife go to town on that. To her a nice looking tie can make the suit go.


Sigh....regarding the socks you're right the crazier the better. Wifey buys all sorts of crazy combos even down to rainbow patterns and one pair was flat out solid orange. Men don't get it but women are like "nice socks". Oh well...

LOL, I know this is non PC but the the only people who should ever pick out ties are women and gay men. For whatever reason most guys play it too safe. Myself included.


----------



## ReformedHubby

U.E. McGill said:


> I can't stand double breasted suits, (so dated). I can't stand guys who loosen their tie while wearing it. I tie a full Windsor with the right shirt. If your gonna wear the uniform, wear it correctly.
> 
> I can go on and on.
> 
> My experience in sales has been generally a guy who looks like a slob is gonna be a slob in all aspects. Those are the guys who expect everything for free, yet can't reach their pockets.


Can we cue the music? I feel as though we are brothers from another mother. I love the full windsor knot, and I hate double breasted suits too. Supposedly men in Europe are still wearing them. How do you feel about bow ties as a change of pace Mr. McGill?


----------



## U.E. McGill

ReformedHubby said:


> Can we cue the music? I feel as though we are brothers from another mother. I love the full windsor knot, and I hate double breasted suits too. Supposedly men in Europe are still wearing them. How do you feel about bow ties as a change of pace Mr. McGill?



I'm pretty fashion forward. I actually like them when done correctly. I think they look best with a sweater and dark jeans/tweed coat. But real tied ones, of course. 

Nope. Europeans aren't wearing double breasted jackets for suits. The best looking suits come from London or Milan. There's no double breasted'a there.


----------



## ReformedHubby

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm pretty fashion forward. I actually like them when done correctly. I think they look best with a sweater and dark jeans/tweed coat. But real tied ones, of course.
> 
> Nope. Europeans aren't wearing double breasted jackets for suits. The best looking suits come from London or Milan. There's no double breasted'a there.


Nice, you get it. You really do. Even your use of the term fashion forward. I took fashion as an elective in college just to meet women. Actually ended up learning a lot.


----------



## Kria

I just had to post this picture because he is one of my favorites and he looks great. It really is the man that makes the suit or clothes and not the other way around.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> I just had to post this picture because he is one of my favorites and he looks great. It really is the man that makes the suit or clothes and not the other way around.


Is that the dude from the Walking Dead? 

You're a woman so you know what you like in a man. A good looking man in a suit becomes a really good looking man. For me, I still think no matter where you are on the looks scale it helps.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> Is that the dude from the Walking Dead?
> 
> You're a woman so you know what you like in a man. A good looking man in a suit becomes a really good looking man. For me, I still think no matter where you are on the looks scale it helps.


Yes that is Andrew Lincoln the main actor on The Walking Dead. Mighty fine actor. He looks great even rugged in character on the show.

I don't agree that any man can look good in a suit. I have seen pot bellied men in suits and dress clothes and all it does is accentuate the fat even more. Not a good look.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kria said:


> Yes that is Andrew Lincoln the main actor on The Walking Dead. Mighty fine actor. He looks great even rugged in character on the show.
> 
> I don't agree that any man can look good in a suit. I have seen pot bellied men in suits and dress clothes and all it does is accentuate the fat even more. Not a good look.


Well...I'm kind of committed to the cause on this one. With apologies to those that are over weight. What exactly would make them more attractive? Seriously. What could they wear to reduce a potbelly? 

With that said if the clothes are too small on on overweight person it looks too snug. If they are too big they look even more overweight. Its tough to compensate for.


----------



## tacoma

Kria said:


> Yes that is Andrew Lincoln the main actor on The Walking Dead. Mighty fine actor. He looks great even rugged in character on the show.



I watched three seasons of that show before I saw an interview with him and was totally blown away by the deep british accent.

I had no clue he was a Brit because of the way he perfectly pulls off that southern Georgia drawl on the show.

Stuff like that amazes me.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I'm kind of committed to the cause on this one. With apologies to those that are over weight. What exactly would make them more attractive? Seriously. What could they wear to reduce a potbelly?
> 
> With that said if the clothes are too small on on overweight person it looks too snug. If they are too big they look even more overweight. Its tough to compensate for.


Not much can be done except for losing weight.


----------



## southbound

I've thought about this myself. As with anything, it probably doesn't fit everyone, but I think people certainly dress down compared to days gone by. 

I'm just a country boy, nothing fancy, but in my grandparents day, they dressed as nice as they could when they went in public. People actually dressed up just to go to town. I'd actually settle for jeans and a t-shirt for some people. that would be a step up from the slop fest that I often see.

What gets me is people who refuse to dress decent even on special occasions. When everyone meets for Christmas, for example, some will be dressed nice, and others will come rolling in like they just got out of bed. I've seen people come to their kids graduation like they just rolled off the tractor.


----------



## chillymorn

you can put silk on a pig........but its still a pig!

with that said I personally feel its more important to walk the walk even if you can't afford a nice new suit. Don't get me wrong everybody should take some pride in their appearance and try with in their means to dress for the occasion. but i try to save my judging of others by their actions more than their cloths.


----------



## Duguesclin

Dressing up is meant to show your social status, whether at a ceremony or at work.

I work in the manufacturing world and to promote team work we do everything possible to avoid this none sense. The best place I have seen is in Japan. A company the CEO wears the same uniform as the assembly line working and sits in the same room as the other employees. Many manufacturing environments promote the uniform, including in the US.

To me, it is far more important for someone to come to an event than not to come because of the dress code, or because of feeling bad due to the dress style expectation.

Fashion came about to separate the have and haves not. Not to make people feel good.


----------



## Fozzy

NotTooSure said:


> I do find it expensive to dress well. Even jeans today seem to cost a lot to me. I would love to dress well... but business casual is my environment and I can't image dressing up when I get home. If I overdressed at work people ask, "Going to a funeral/interview". So I blame employers for the lack of dress standards.


I get the same questions at my job when I dress up a little, which is why I like to come in at least a few times a year dressed to the nines, just to keep them guessing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RClawson

Kria said:


> Is this acceptable enough for you?


Nope. I guarantee you those guys will look at themselves in 20 years and they will say I thought I was cool but I really look like a dork.

Just like my oldest brother looking at himself in a 1973 picture with a leisure suit, white boots and belt. Aaaaaaaaa not good.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...I'm kind of committed to the cause on this one. With apologies to those that are over weight. What exactly would make them more attractive? Seriously. What could they wear to reduce a potbelly?
> 
> With that said if the clothes are too small on on overweight person it looks too snug. If they are too big they look even more overweight. Its tough to compensate for.


:iagree:

I think it may be even more advantageous for a very overweight man to wear a well-tailored suit than it is for a fit man.


----------



## jld

Duguesclin said:


> Fashion came about to separate the have and haves not. Not to make people feel good.


That's profound.


----------



## southbound

Here is part of an article that I agree with:


_My 98-year-old grandfather often remarks upon how much more formally people used to dress. When he would talk about women pulling out their favorite attire to wear to church, or a man taking the time to press his shirt before going into town, I felt like there was something good there. Of course, this era had its own problems; like Msgr. Pope, who went out of his way to make it clear that he doesn't think everything was perfect in the past, it wasn't that I thought my grandfather's generation had everything figured out in all areas of life. Rather, it was just a vague sense that there was something positive behind the old customs regarding how people dressed and comported themselves in public, even though I couldn't put my finger on what it was.

It finally clicked one day when I was sitting on an airplane, watching everyone board, and remembered a picture I'd seen of my grandparents getting ready to board a flight in the 1940s. I and the other passengers were dressed about five degrees more casually than my grandparents and the other folks around them in that old black-and-white photo. As I thought through what motivated the two different cultures, it occurred to me: Air travel used to be a privilege. People dressed up for it out of a sense of respect and gratitude, because not everyone got to do something like that. Today, most people take flights at least occasionally. It's not a big deal anymore. We don't feel particularly grateful to be able to do it. And thus, we don't dress up.

I began to notice this in other areas too: Going out to a restaurant, or to a grocery store -- perhaps even to church -- are all activities that used to be valued more than they are today. The economy was different, and far fewer people could afford to go out to eat than can today. Many women who went grocery shopping remembered the days before the corner grocery store existed, back when people had to milk cows and churn butter and slaughter chickens in order to get the goods that were now wonderfully easy to pick up in a store. And some of it may even have be due to more awareness of the fleetingness of life: Though lukewarm attitudes about God have existed in all times and places, people certainly appreciated church more before modern medicine and conveniences made us feel like we could create our own heavens here on earth.

I don't think that the social principle that you should dress up for what's important to you has changed since the 1950s; I think there's simply not that much that's important to us anymore. I wore faded jeans and a t-shirt the last time I went out to dinner, because it wasn't a big deal to me. As much as I hate to admit it, I wasn't that grateful to be able to be served dinner in a restaurant; it felt more like a right than an honor. However, if I got an invitation from Queen Elizabeth to join her at Buckingham Palace for tea tomorrow, you can bet that that outfit would be the furthest thing from my mind. We still dress up when we feel that an activity is an honor or a privilege.

Hopefully it goes without saying that I'm not suggesting that those of us who dress casually most of the time are never grateful for anything. However, on a widespread cultural level, I do think that a blasé attitude toward our daily activities is at the root of our modern blasé attitudes about dress and manners. And so when Msgr. Pope asks at the end of his post, "Have we lost something?" I would say yes; and I would suggest that if we hope to reclaim what has been lost, we must first reclaim a sense of gratitude._


----------



## jld

Southbound, a lot has been lost in our society. Our society has changed.

People do have more money, and going out to eat is not the treat it once was. Many things are not the treat they once were. 

Things that were sacred, like marriage, are not anymore. And you could make the argument that they never were, but cheating or the use of prostitutes was given a blind eye.

I am a bit surprised by how people dress, but I don't really care. I care about the heart of people. I see past the clothing. And I would never make a really important decision about a person based on his/her _clothing._


----------



## U.E. McGill

Duguesclin said:


> Dressing up is meant to show your social status, whether at a ceremony or at work.
> 
> 
> 
> I work in the manufacturing world and to promote team work we do everything possible to avoid this none sense. The best place I have seen is in Japan. A company the CEO wears the same uniform as the assembly line working and sits in the same room as the other employees. Many manufacturing environments promote the uniform, including in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> To me, it is far more important for someone to come to an event than not to come because of the dress code, or because of feeling bad due to the dress style expectation.
> 
> 
> 
> Fashion came about to separate the have and haves not. Not to make people feel good.



I think you'll find most fashion had its roots in function. 

High heels? Originally from men's boots to better hook a stirrup. 

A mans tie? A device to keep his shirt clean. 

A shirt collar? Was a separate piece to keep the rest of your shirt clean from grime.


----------



## tacoma

Where'd you get that article southbound?

It's incredibly insightful.


----------



## tainted

ReformedHubby said:


> When I look at the MLB,NFL, and NBA films from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, take a look at the crowd. All the men are decked out with jackets, ties, trench coats, fedoras, etc. etc.



Tell me about it. When i go to a football game, the only boobs i want to see are from accidental wardrobe malfunctions. Not from overweight drunk men. 

But i guess it goes with the current theme of men not caring in general. We don't seem to care about getting married, going to college or getting a job. So why care about the way we look. Its sad and one day when i'm old, i'll say "damnit i'm old, i'll wear whatever i want".


----------



## Holland

Mr H wears a suit and tie 5 days a week, he looks sensational and I have to be honest that when I see him all dressed up for work in the mornings it leads me to thoughts of sex. He is tall and wears good suits with ties and cufflinks to compliment the suit.

He likes to get casual when he gets home unless we are going out to dinner and then the suit (maybe minus the jacket or tie if it is hot) stays on.
He dresses in smart casual on weekends when we go out unless it is to the Opera or something upmarket.

When we go out we pretty much match up in dress code, casual right through to dressy depending on the event. I am just thankful he has natural style because I like to dress up and like to be seen with a well dressed man.


----------



## WyshIknew

I'm a techie geek and our dress code is very relaxed. However I can not bring myself to wear blue jeans and t shirt to work like the other guys.
I will mostly wear black trousers, shined black shoes, smart short sleeved shirt.
However if I get the promotion I'm angling for it will be a tie job which will be a whole new ball game for me.


----------



## sinnister

anchorwatch said:


> You can pay what you want, but a classic wardrobe does not need to be expensive...
> 
> 22 Things Under $100 That Every Man Should Have In His Closet


1. I'm not buying lip balm.
2. I'm a dude that will never shop at Lulu lemon, the gap, H&M etc.
3. Basketball shorts are way more comfortable for me because they have a lower crotch line. So while working out the shorts don't crush my nads while I do crunches. 
4. I'm not buying those ugly rubber things that go over your shoes.
5. I'm not buying a man purse.


Other than that the list was good.


----------



## sinnister

ReformedHubby said:


> Sigh....regarding the socks you're right the crazier the better. Wifey buys all sorts of crazy combos even down to rainbow patterns and one pair was flat out solid orange. Men don't get it but women are like "nice socks". Oh well...
> 
> LOL, I know this is non PC but the the only people who should ever pick out ties are women and gay men. For whatever reason most guys play it too safe. Myself included.


Yup. My wife is great at picking out my ties. I suck at it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think it may be even more advantageous for a very overweight man to wear a well-tailored suit than it is for a fit man.


Custom Tailoring works magic for any man with any type of body.

Most of the celebs and professional athletes wear custom tailored suits.


----------



## Caribbean Man

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sweaty feet in leather shoes ... that could get unpleasant.
> 
> We had a guy ... an executive ... at our office who used to do the whole sockless thing. He would then take his shoes off in meetings to air his feet out. Here's this guy in a dress shirt and tie with bare feet. It was a running joke in our office that shoes would be required at meetings.



Tenactin controls sweaty feet and itching.

Drying your feet properly after the shower and a pedicure helps control odors.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Caribbean Man said:


> Tenactin controls sweaty feet and itching.
> 
> 
> 
> Drying your feet properly after the shower and a pedicure helps control odors.



Sockless any shoe should be outlawed (women's strappy shoes aside, and I don't wear flip flops). It's not allowed in my house for our kids. I don't care if they have blue hair, but they're wearing socks with it.


----------



## tacoma

U.E. McGill said:


> Sockless any shoe should be outlawed (women's strappy shoes aside, and I don't wear flip flops). It's not allowed in my house for our kids. I don't care if they have blue hair, but they're wearing socks with it.


Depends on the shoes.

I have a couple of pairs of weaved leather loafers I wear everywhere.

They're like wearing nothing because the entire shoe is ventilated everywhere.

I'll pass on the socks here in southern Florida, that's how you get stinky sweaty feet.


----------



## Caribbean Man

tacoma said:


> Depends on the shoes.
> 
> I have a couple of pairs of weaved leather loafers I wear everywhere.
> 
> They're like wearing nothing because the entire shoe is ventilated everywhere.
> 
> I'll pass on the socks here in southern Florida, that's how you get stinky sweaty feet.


I have a couple pairs of Clarks woven leather sandals [ loafers] too , I've had them for ages.

Very comfortable going sockless in them.

Anyway Tacoma, it just occurred to me that we both live in tropical climates!
Haha!


----------



## tacoma

Caribbean Man said:


> I have a couple pairs of Clarks woven leather sandals [ loafers] too , I've had them for ages.
> 
> Very comfortable going sockless in them.
> 
> Anyway Tacoma, it just occurred to me that we both live in tropical climates!
> Haha!


Yeah, climate does have an effect on your fashion choices.

8 months out if the year on the coast here everyone is as close to naked as they can legally be.


----------



## ReformedHubby

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think it may be even more advantageous for a very overweight man to wear a well-tailored suit than it is for a fit man.


I think you're right. A large man wearing an off the rack suit depending on the fit can actually appear to be more overweight than he is. Fit is so important.


----------



## southbound

tacoma said:


> Where'd you get that article southbound?
> 
> It's incredibly insightful.


Here's the site I found it on:

Why Don't We Dress Up Anymore? |Blogs | NCRegister.com




tacoma said:


> Yeah, climate does have an effect on your fashion choices.
> 
> 8 months out if the year on the coast here everyone is as close to naked as they can legally be.


That's true today, but it wasn't practiced in days gone by. People still dressed decent regardless of temperature.


----------



## Kria

ReformedHubby said:


> I think you're right. A large man wearing an off the rack suit depending on the fit can actually appear to be more overweight than he is. Fit is so important.


How about working towards a more fit body instead of just trying to make the clothes fit on an overweight body.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> How about working towards a more fit body instead of just trying to make the clothes fit on an overweight body.


I don't disagree but as a person whose wife weighs well over 300lbs, that requires a complete lifestyle 180 ... not an easy thing after a lifetime of bad habits and it isn't something that happens overnight. I know people who have been able to do it but it took tremendous commitment and effort and once they reach their goals, they still find it too easy to fall back into bad habits.

I'm a fit guy ... but it is easy for me and even at 46 I can eat pretty much anything I want and as much as I want. In fact, I HAVE to work out and eat right to put weight on. Funny ... we had some dinner guests over a couple of months ago and after watching me going back for seconds, thirds and fourths people started to comment. One of the women said ... "that will change when you get older" (as if I was 12). She then asked how old I was and when I told her, she seemed surprised and said ... "well, I guess it might not change for you."


----------



## Lon

ReformedHubby said:


> Warning, this is a fashion rant so I'm not at all expecting this thread to get much traction.
> 
> For the past couple of years I'm concerned that a lot of men (American men in particular) just don't give a crap about their appearance anymore. On TAM we focus a lot on weight lifting for men, which is good but to be honest a lot of guys need help on the appearance part too.
> 
> When I look at the MLB,NFL, and NBA films from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, take a look at the crowd. All the men are decked out with jackets, ties, trench coats, fedoras, etc. etc. No wonder they weren't sexless, they had all kinds of swag. What has happened to us? Did the business casual transition do this to us or did something else?
> 
> Lots of men today don't even have a decent suit, even when they do have one for weddings and other occasions they don't look comfortable in it, and they complain about having to wear one. Also the art of shining shoes is gone too. What's the point of wearing a nice suit if your shoes are dusty and scuffed. This isn't about money either. It doesn't cost that much to look decent.
> 
> Its gotten to the point that men point out other men for "over" dressing in offices. I guess I'd just like to see us maintain pride in our appearance. I'd challenge anyone that would disagree with this to walk around your town one day in a well cut suit. You'll notice a lot more attention from the ladies than you would in your dockers and polo shirt. Apologies for the rant, I guess I'm just paranoid that twenty years from now men will be wearing sweat pants to work. Does anybody else out there think that men are slipping when it comes to personal appearance?


I stand out too much from the crowd if I dress up. I have been told many times that I am a good dresser and always look respectable, but I actually feel pretty unkempt and grungy most of the time. I know nothing of fashion, I am just lazy, don't like to have to change my clothes too often but also like to dress well for work - so no ratty t shirts, no ripped pants etc. But I don't even really bother shaving at all these days, my hair only needs weekly attention with the clippers. I make sure not to smell, but I only shower every other day. I wash my face daily and keep stragglers out of my brows but that is it. And I see beautiful women all around that obviously go to great effort on their appearance constantly.


----------



## badcompany

It's kind of going the wayside I have to admit, not just in the US. Several years ago I went to Japan on business, I took a nice suit and several dress shirts even though I was going to the industrial area of the country to do a combo of some business and actually get some dirt under my fingernails. When I arrived in the airport I was shocked, it was grunge central....loose baggy brown green tan everything on 90% of the people and only a few suits walking about.


----------



## Kria

???


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Kria said:


> ???


I'm sorry ... what am I supposed to see in this picture? ... all I see are some nice legs, everything else is a blur.


----------



## DoF

For me it's simply comfort. Clothes is all about function over form/looks.

Especially since I'm not single. But even if I wasn't I would still not dress to impress.

That wouldn't be me and I don't want to attract people with not being myself.

I also think women/people forget the meaning of "the guy in the suit". I don't even want to be associated with that.


----------



## xakulax

I'm an American and I care about my appearance the main reason why is simple we live in a world where first impressions matter and how you dress tends to = who you are. Is that right I don't know but its the ways it is.


----------



## tacoma

southbound said:


> That's true today, but it wasn't practiced in days gone by. People still dressed decent regardless of temperature.


I don't think the two ideas are inherently at odds.

You can dress well and comfortably at the same time.

If in the past "decently" was a suit, button down, and socks while wandering around downtown Tampa in 100 degrees at 90% humidity they were substituting stupidity for style.

The only thing your clothes will do in that situation is be cut off by the paramedics to cool your heat stroked body down while they administered an IV for fluids.


----------



## Kria

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'm sorry ... what am I supposed to see in this picture? ... all I see are some nice legs, everything else is a blur.


Ha ha ha! That's why I put three question marks to represent each person. You focused in on the best dressed.


----------



## john117

xakulax said:


> I'm an American and I care about my appearance the main reason why is simple we live in a world where first impressions matter and how you dress tends to = who you are. Is that right I don't know but its the ways it is.


You must not live in the Midwest, the land of the sweat pants, tube tops, and should-be-illegal-to-wear yoga pants... Or flannel shirts, fake Western gear, or even more fake department store suits for men.

For 30 years I've done well in the corporate world with pressed jeans and the occasional khakis, oxford shirts, and loafers. Longish Einstein hair while we're at it...

I dress up once a year or two when we go on a cruise.


----------



## xakulax

john117 said:


> You must not live in the Midwest, the land of the sweat pants, tube tops, and *should-be-illegal-to-wear yoga pants*... Or flannel shirts, fake Western gear, or even more fake department store suits for men.
> 
> For 30 years I've done well in the corporate world with pressed jeans and the occasional khakis, oxford shirts, and loafers. Longish Einstein hair while we're at it...
> 
> I dress up once a year or two when we go on a cruise.



Maybe I should move to the Midwest!!!


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Why don't men today care as much about their appearance?*



DoF said:


> For me it's simply comfort. Clothes is all about function over form/looks.
> 
> Especially since I'm not single. But even if I wasn't I would still not dress to impress.
> 
> That wouldn't be me and I don't want to attract people with not being myself.
> 
> I also think women/people forget the meaning of "the guy in the suit". I don't even want to be associated with that.


Yep, when I see a guy wearing a tie, I know not to trust what he says as truth. (One of my rule of thumbs that very often holds true)


----------



## xakulax

Kria said:


> ???




I don't know whats more sad the fact that this guy look like total hipsters or the fact they probably get more action than they deserve :scratchhead:


----------



## Caribbean Man

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'm sorry ... what am I supposed to see in this picture? ... all I see are some nice legs, everything else is a blur.



Yup,

That woman definitely has a sense of style , and she's oozing self confidence!
Only thing is , I never understood dark sunglasses in the night.

The men look like they need help...


----------



## U.E. McGill

Lon said:


> Yep, when I see a guy wearing a tie, I know not to trust what he says as truth. (One of my rule of thumbs that very often holds true)



It's funny, you may have disdain for the "uniform" but it's still the uniform. I fly all the time. I'm very high status on the airline (up in the sky status) and I watch people get on in sweat pants and wife beaters, while I drink my beer in first class. A majority of my fellow F passengers tend to be the best dressed on the plane. I regularly sit next to C-types and the like.


----------



## DoF

Caribbean Man said:


> Yup,
> 
> That woman definitely has a sense of style , and she's oozing self confidence!
> Only thing is , I never understood dark sunglasses in the night.


Drugs.....


----------



## DoF

U.E. McGill said:


> It's funny, you may have disdain for the "uniform" but it's still the uniform. I fly all the time. I'm very high status on the airline (up in the sky status) and I watch people get on in sweat pants and wife beaters, while I drink my beer in first class. A majority of my fellow F passengers tend to be the best dressed on the plane. I regularly sit next to C-types and the like.


What's your point?


----------



## U.E. McGill

The people in charge and in power in companies don't dress like crap.


----------



## DoF

U.E. McGill said:


> The people in charge and in power in companies don't dress like crap.


You are wrong on that. CEO of my company dresses like complete crap.....

You are assuming "charge and power" is something people strive for. I know I don't, no thanks.

You are also mixing CAREER and PERSONAL life. When I'm flying on a plane I dress in comfort clothes. But I understand you might be "representing" your company while traveling and all that....so it might require it etc.

Again, kind of job I wouldn't want (at any price). 

Whatever floats your boat.

Now, when it comes to relationships. You are already starting off on the wrong foot by dressing up in a suit as women see $$$/success as primary attraction. 

Read: you are getting unwanted attraction.

I have a friend that flaunts his wealth etc and wonders why he can't find a decent women. Well, how about blending in more. Don't drive a viper trying to find a decent woman.......try it with a Camry.

Now, if you are looking for a piece of arse.......ignore everything above, do as you please.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Caribbean Man said:


> Only thing is , I never understood dark sunglasses in the night.


Social Anxiety.I'm addicted to my sunglasses...they keep me safe


----------



## ReformedHubby

ScarletBegonias said:


> Social Anxiety.I'm addicted to my sunglasses...they keep me safe


SB, BTW believe it or not you inspired this thread. When I saw what you posted about the Sapuers. I thought to myself. These guys barely have anything and look at how much they inspire their communities with the way the dress.


----------



## U.E. McGill

DoF said:


> You are wrong on that. CEO of my company dresses like complete crap.....
> 
> You are assuming "charge and power" is something people strive for. I know I don't, no thanks.
> 
> You are also mixing CAREER and PERSONAL life. When I'm flying on a plane I dress in comfort clothes. But I understand you might be "representing" your company while traveling and all that....so it might require it etc.
> 
> Again, kind of job I wouldn't want (at any price).
> 
> Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Now, when it comes to relationships. You are already starting off on the wrong foot by dressing up in a suit as women see $$$/success as primary attraction.
> 
> Read: you are getting unwanted attraction.
> 
> I have a friend that flaunts his wealth etc and wonders why he can't find a decent women. Well, how about blending in more. Don't drive a viper trying to find a decent woman.......try it with a Camry.
> 
> Now, if you are looking for a piece of arse.......ignore everything above, do as you please.



I don't disagree with what you say generally. I'll say your CEO is probably the exception not the rule. 

As far as your friend goes, superficial begets superficial. Dressing nice and appropriate for the situation is fine and has nothing to do with the women he's dating. When I was dating I wore business attire to work where I met my wife. I didn't wear sneakers to a dinner date, but if we went on a park picnic I didn't wear dress shoes either. My wife is hot btw, and very grounded. 

Kudos frankly for being honest about the kind of job you want. Too many younger people I deal with want the prestige of the job but don't want to pay their dues. I've told someone to not even sit down for an interview once.


----------



## DarkHoly

ScarletBegonias said:


> Social Anxiety.I'm addicted to my sunglasses...they keep me safe


There are other things that can keep you safe that are much more fun.


----------



## southbound

There have been a lot of comments and various interpretations here. For me, it's not about wearing a three piece suit everywhere you go, I sure don't, nor is it about dressing to impress. As for the picture in this thread of the two guys and the woman, I don't think the guys are bad for just a day on the town. They are well covered, and their outfits look nice and well kept; I usually throw up a little when i see a guy with shoes that expose his feet, but other than that, they aren't bad. I just don't understand why people want to look like slobs all the time in all environments. 

For example, why would someone not wear their best clothes to church, or a funeral, or a graduation, and similar events? Why the slob fest?

As for hot temperatures, I'm not saying people should wear a three piece, but having to look at a lot of people's 80% naked bodies in public can bring on an up-chuck at times. I usually wear long jeans and a t-shirt in the summer, or khakis. I actually work in hot weather in that type of clothing, so I'm sure I could stroll a sidewalk in them. I've never come close to a heat stroke because of my clothing.


----------



## southbound

Here's another interesting article about how people dressed in the past compared to today. 

7 Things People Dressed Up For In Our Grandparents' Day | Brie Dyas


----------



## ReformedHubby

Last night I took the wife to an NBA game. I've always been a bit of people watcher. I noticed a lady wearing yoga pants and a track jacket. I didn't focus on her but I did focus on the reaction of the women in the kept wives/girlfriend section as she walked by. I'm really glad she was oblivious to them because they were looking at her like she was some sort of vagrant or something. I hadn't even thought about the public perception of wearing yoga pants "everywhere" (because obviously I don't wear them). Apparently its something that many feel strongly for/against.


----------



## ReformedHubby

southbound said:


> Here's another interesting article about how people dressed in the past compared to today.
> 
> 7 Things People Dressed Up For In Our Grandparents' Day | Brie Dyas


LOL, I refuse to believe that people dressed up to mow the lawn. Perhaps there just weren't that many casual clothes available back then? You also see farmers in old pictures working in what appear to be dress shirts, pants, and suspenders.


----------



## southbound

ReformedHubby said:


> LOL, I refuse to believe that people dressed up to mow the lawn. Perhaps there just weren't that many casual clothes available back then? You also see farmers in old pictures working in what appear to be dress shirts, pants, and suspenders.


You might have something about lack of availability of casual clothes, it was just their normal clothes. I'm somewhat like that today. When my khakis get a few too many miles to wear to work, I retire them as my "everyday clothes." So, I've certainly been known to mow the lawn in them.

I wouldn't do that with a polyester pair of dress pants, but the cotton khakis, sure. I don't even own a pair of shorts.

And speaking of farmers, I recall my grandfather working in a long sleeve button up in the summer, although it was thin. I think it was due in part to avoid sun exposure. I guess they were smarter than us, even though all the sun scare stuff wasn't as prominent in those days.


----------



## Mr The Other

Two evenings ago, I was in Texas. I was advised as I wondered out for the evening by elder middle aged gentlemen that I was highly over dressed (shirt, jacket, pants and leather shoes). I stuck with it and despite it being considered an odd look by the older generation, the younger generation gave an extremely favourable response. That said, they would have lacked the confidence to put it together themselves.

(I am an Englishman)


----------



## wise

Lol at this thread. 

I always wear a v-neck with designer jeans/converses or camo shorts/nikes. My girl loves the look and she gets sexy everywhere we go plus tons of women before her loved it too. 

In today's world, it is not about the clothes. It is about who has $$$.


----------



## ReformedHubby

wise said:


> Lol at this thread.
> 
> I always wear a v-neck with designer jeans/converses or camo shorts/nikes. My girl loves the look and she gets sexy everywhere we go plus tons of women before her loved it too.
> 
> In today's world, it is not about the clothes. It is about who has $$$.


Just curious, do you believe there is zero correlation between who has the $$$/power and the way the carry themselves and dress? Sure there are millionaires like the Duck Dynasty dude but most typically tend to look the part.


----------



## john117

Nearly 30 years ago I met Bill Joy of Sun Microsystems who came to talk to my company about his workstations. He looked straight out of a Berkeley hippie commune...


----------



## xrsm002

I get dressed up when going out on dates especially if we are to be going to out community theatre. I don't wear ties often because I have a big Adams apple/neck that they tend to cut my air off. At my work I also do emergency medical service and we wear button down shirts with our Emt pants during winter months and polos during the summer due to the 115+ degree heat.


----------



## xrsm002

As far as millionaires go I've tended to notice most millionaires don't dress like they are rich. They are the ones in the shorts and sandals. Even a guy that sells ferraris told me this.


----------



## wise

> Just curious, do you believe there is zero correlation between who has the $$$/power and the way the carry themselves and dress? Sure there are millionaires like the Duck Dynasty dude but most typically tend to look the part.


Not saying there is no correlation between who has the $$$/power. What I was implying was in today's society, more people care about if they can hold a job rather than what they are wearing. 

Women are competing with each other out in public at all times; whereas, men simply do not care. There are just to many variables to factor in with this kind of discussion. Men that live in Florida dress differently than men who live in New York. etc etc. If you go to a party in Florida, you will see more men with shorts and boat shoes than in New York. 

And no, it's not usual for mega rich people to 'look' the piece. It attracts the wrong women and people will look to you for the bill. Of course, you will have men wear thousands dollars worth of clothes on any given day but they tend to default to the shirt/designed jeans/hat/sunglasses look. Its trendy and modern and tends to attract all types of women. 

However, some people do need help in the style department. But a lot of them have physical problems, mental problems, stress, laziness, etc. They are just not all that there.


----------



## OhGeesh

ReformedHubby said:


> Warning, this is a fashion rant so I'm not at all expecting this thread to get much traction.
> 
> For the past couple of years I'm concerned that a lot of men (American men in particular) just don't give a crap about their appearance anymore. On TAM we focus a lot on weight lifting for men, which is good but to be honest a lot of guys need help on the appearance part too.
> 
> When I look at the MLB,NFL, and NBA films from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, take a look at the crowd. All the men are decked out with jackets, ties, trench coats, fedoras, etc. etc. No wonder they weren't sexless, they had all kinds of swag. What has happened to us? Did the business casual transition do this to us or did something else?
> 
> Lots of men today don't even have a decent suit, even when they do have one for weddings and other occasions they don't look comfortable in it, and they complain about having to wear one. Also the art of shining shoes is gone too. What's the point of wearing a nice suit if your shoes are dusty and scuffed. This isn't about money either. It doesn't cost that much to look decent.
> 
> Its gotten to the point that men point out other men for "over" dressing in offices. I guess I'd just like to see us maintain pride in our appearance. I'd challenge anyone that would disagree with this to walk around your town one day in a well cut suit. You'll notice a lot more attention from the ladies than you would in your dockers and polo shirt. Apologies for the rant, I guess I'm just paranoid that twenty years from now men will be wearing sweat pants to work. Does anybody else out there think that men are slipping when it comes to personal appearance?


Not me I wish it would get more casual lol.


----------



## Mr The Other

There is a standard 'dressing smart' in the USA, which does not look good to my eyes. It is the look of a sports jacket with an overly generous cut, button down colored collared shirts with sports pants and not quite formal shoes.

The issue with this is that reeks of someone insecure in what they are wearing as an effort is being made, but at the same time it is trying to look casual. 

There are two things to dressing well that occur to me in my ignorance. One is dressing respectfully for the occasion, which is a must. The other is dressing how you like. For most occasion, if you are in charge you can stick to the second, most of us have to combine the two. 

If I want to dress for my own sake in the USA, I would dress as a European - no buttoned down collar, white shirt, fitted jacket and pants. However, that is fine on a Brit, it would be harder for an American.

There is the issue in the USA that most people working on shops for formal wear know nothing about clothing, which makes it very hard to find out about.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Mr The Other said:


> There is the issue in the USA that most people working on shops for formal wear know nothing about clothing, which makes it very hard to find out about.


This is very true. Most salesman will sell a man anything with no regard for proper fit. Its not always the salesman's fault though. Since men no longer know what they are looking for the salesman often assumes you want to look like everybody else with oversized jackets.


----------



## ReformedHubby

john117 said:


> Nearly 30 years ago I met Bill Joy of Sun Microsystems who came to talk to my company about his workstations. He looked straight out of a Berkeley hippie commune...


I hear you John, but the reason I feel the way I do is because most of us aren't Bill Joy, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc. etc. We are all actually pretty ordinary when it comes down to it. Men like Bill Joy would be successful no matter what they wore. I'm not convinced what applies to them applies the same to us. 

I would love it if my son was the inventor of the next facebook, but the reality is the odds of that are very, very, small. Sure he's a smart kid and all and I will encourage him to follow his dreams, but the reality is he most likely will be like everyone else. A wage earner, and I still think appearance very much matters in that world. Which is why I feel I must prepare him for it.

There are other professions that it doesn't matter all that much. But if you end up doing the type of work that most American men are engaged in on a day to day basis. I think appearance still matters.


----------



## southbound

If I go out in public to a store, to eat, or a concert, I'm probably going to dress somewhat like the guy in the first picture, except I will go short sleeves in the summer. It's not because I think it makes me better than anyone else, or that I'm hot stuff, it's just how my 46 year old person feels comfortable dressing.

Regardless of how hot it is, I would feel rather weird going into a restaurant or any public place dressed like the second guy, but that's just me.


----------



## tacoma

southbound said:


> Regardless of how hot it is, I would feel rather weird going into a restaurant or any public place dressed like the second guy, but that's just me.


I am usually dressed like the first guy.
In fact it's what I'm wearing right now just getting back from an outdoor festival.
Sometimes good jeans instead of slacks/khakis. 

However if heading to the beach or BBQ or most outdoor events I am that second guy.

48 year old Floridian male here.



southbound said:


> Regardless of how hot it is, I would feel rather weird going into a restaurant or any public place dressed like the second guy, but that's just me.


See this is where cultural differences come into play.

I don't know where you live but there's no way I could wear the first guys clothing for any extended time outdoors here in the summertime.
Within 15 minutes in the summer heat/humidity that shirt would be soaked in sweat and everyone would be looking at me wondering what the hell was wrong with me.
It's called a tropical locale for a reason.

Everyone dresses more like the second guy in public outdoors regardless of age.

Good fashion doesn't limit one to slacks and button downs, there are other options.

Edit:
Stupid pose but this is pretty much my outdoor wardrobe in the summer heat.


----------



## southbound

tacoma said:


> See this is where cultural differences come into play.
> 
> I don't know where you live but there's no way I could wear the first guys clothing for any extended time outdoors here in the summertime.
> Within 15 minutes in the summer heat/humidity that shirt would be soaked in sweat and everyone would be looking at me wondering what the hell was wrong with me.
> It's called a tropical locale for a reason.


I live in KY. Here, the weather changes often; however, we can have hot summers. I know what it is to be 100F, and any summer here will be in the 80s.

I have been to Florida a few times, and I did dress like the one guy on the beach, but anywhere else I went, I was back to the pants and button down. I don't recall it feeling any differently than here. 

The bottom line is, to each his own. I could just understand better if I had personal experience with some things. For example, people use temperature as a reason for dressing down, but as I said, I have been to Florida, and I don't recall it being any different than here. 

I've also done some manual labor jobs such as construction work. Believe me, it gets hot on concrete and roof-tops, but we all wore work clothes and made it fine. I also work on a farm, and if you wear shorts and such while cleaning brush, briers will eat you alive, so, I wear long pants there in 80-100 temps and make it fine.

I suppose peoples bodies are just different. I just don't sweat much just walking around stores and sidewalks regardless of temp. Maybe my body considers that a vacation.


----------



## ReformedHubby

tacoma said:


> Good fashion doesn't limit one to slacks and button downs, there are other options.


Can't disagree with that. While I do think that men tend to under dress for work, weddings, church, etc. When it comes to casual wear there are all kinds of ways to look stylish. There is no one style fits all for a casual. I guess my biggest gripe is I don't think most men even have a sense a style anymore. Its tough to explain but I kind of feel like everybody has a "bla" attitude towards their clothes.


----------



## Mr The Other

I think it is lack of confidence. When men make an effort, they are often unsure and end up with a standard 'making an effort, almost good' look. 

My American wife was quite taken aback that I was not going to wear a tux to our wedding. I was taken aback that she thought I should wear evening wear to a day time occasion.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Mr The Other said:


> I think it is lack of confidence. When men make an effort, they are often unsure and end up with a standard 'making an effort, almost good' look.


You've got a point. When done right a person's since of style is in many ways an expression of who they are. I think women are better at this than men. 

I'm not advocating that everyone adopt my style. I've seen plenty of cowboy's that I thought were dressed pretty fly when taking a lady out. However, I certainly couldn't pull that off. It wouldn't fit me.

P.S. Completely unrelated but I want it on the record that I would never carry a murse or a satchel


----------



## Mr The Other

ReformedHubby said:


> You've got a point. When done right a person's since of style is in many ways an expression of who they are. I think women are better at this than men.
> 
> I'm not advocating that everyone adopt my style. I've seen plenty of cowboy's that I thought were dressed pretty fly when taking a lady out. However, I certainly couldn't pull that off. It wouldn't fit me.
> 
> P.S. Completely unrelated but I want it on the record that I would never carry a murse or a satchel


True, I could not do a murse or a satchel either. That said, when I wear tight fitting clothes (by US standards, normal for Europe), it is OK because I am European. An American man would get less leeway - basically, in the USA, I can dress how I like and get the benefit of the doubt. American men are understandably more cautious.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

The biggest annoyance I have with dressing well (and I'm not just talking suits, but having a variety of new, high quality, fitted, well coordinated clothes of whatever style) is the bizarre tendency of some guys to think I'm gay or something. I'm not sure if they think I'm gay, but the vibe is definitely off as compared to wearing some old baggy jeans, loose t-shirts, and what not. But women definitely notice me more when well dressed.

I also find it strange that its more acceptable(?) for black guys to make nice, bold fashion statements. My black friends are the best dressed men I know. Anyone else have this perception?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The biggest annoyance I have with dressing well (and I'm not just talking suits, but having a variety of new, high quality, fitted, well coordinated clothes of whatever style) is the bizarre tendency of some guys to think I'm gay or something. I'm not sure if they think I'm gay, but the vibe is definitely off as compared to wearing some old baggy jeans, loose t-shirts, and what not. But women definitely notice me more when well dressed.
> 
> I also find it strange that its more acceptable(?) for black guys to make nice, bold fashion statements. My black friends are the best dressed men I know. Anyone else have this perception?


I've noticed that.I've also noticed it seems more acceptable for anyone other than white dudes to make those bold fashion statements and NOT get labeled as gay.


----------



## ReformedHubby

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The biggest annoyance I have with dressing well (and I'm not just talking suits, but having a variety of new, high quality, fitted, well coordinated clothes of whatever style) is the bizarre tendency of some guys to think I'm gay or something. I'm not sure if they think I'm gay, but the vibe is definitely off as compared to wearing some old baggy jeans, loose t-shirts, and what not. But women definitely notice me more when well dressed.
> 
> I also find it strange that its more acceptable(?) for black guys to make nice, bold fashion statements. My black friends are the best dressed men I know. Anyone else have this perception?


LOL, I can actually relate to both comments. Was at a bar recently and a man and his male friend came up to me and asked me what team I play for. When I was younger people would ask me that a lot so I assumed they were talking sports. They then clarified and said are you gay or straight. I told them I was straight, and one of the other guy's looked at the other guy as if to say I told you so. It wasn't awkward or anything like that. We actually kind of rolled right in to talking about real estate. My wife got a kick of it when I got home though.

Regarding the black thing, I can see what you mean. Growing up girls, clothes, and cars were the topic of conversation.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I see white guys, and mostly I see clothes he's probably had for at least a couple years. My black friends, they can actually tell you what's trendy. They seemingly have damn near a whole. new. wardrobe. every. season. Shoes especially... the shoes always have to look crisp - new; and they have a ton of them; often even different colors/shades of the SAME shoe for different outfits. The white guys? Same old sneakers, boots or casual shoe they've had forever that go with everything... and they have 3-4 total pairs of shoes. lol

Black guys - accessorize like crazy, all sorts of hats, jewelry etc. Real attention getting stuff. White guys... a baseball cap; a watch... *maybe*.

Maybe I was born the wrong color, cause damn it... I like hats and bold fashion. lol


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I love men in hats.In my single years if a nice looking well dressed man in a hat hit on me, I'd be so dazzled he could have knocked me over with a feather.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I like the juxtaposition of tattoos and old school classy style - suit vests with rolled up sleeves. Part of me really wants to get more tats, run this look and give no f*cks about sticking out like a sore thumb. ha










Check out that knot.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

YES.


----------



## ReformedHubby

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I see white guys, and mostly I see clothes he's probably had for at least a couple years. My black friends, they can actually tell you what's trendy. They seemingly have damn near a whole. new. wardrobe. every. season. Shoes especially... the shoes always have to look crisp - new; and they have a ton of them; often even different colors/shades of the SAME shoe for different outfits. The white guys? Same old sneakers, boots or casual shoe they've had forever that go with everything... and they have 3-4 total pairs of shoes. lol
> 
> Black guys - accessorize like crazy, all sorts of hats, jewelry etc. Real attention getting stuff. White guys... a baseball cap; a watch... *maybe*.
> 
> Maybe I was born the wrong color, cause damn it... I like hats and bold fashion. lol


Based on your taste in clothing, I've decided to make you an honorary member. I will issue a membership card digitally via a PM.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

U.E. McGill said:


> I think you'll find most fashion had its roots in function.
> 
> High heels? Originally from men's boots to better hook a stirrup.
> 
> A mans tie? A device to keep his shirt clean.
> 
> A shirt collar? Was a separate piece to keep the rest of your shirt clean from grime.


Excellent points that I think illustrate why, over time, the fashions of today are not the same as they were decades ago. I've seen a few posters mention it already about working in industry. I work in manufacturing myself. As of today, you would be REQUIRED to remove your tie if you are going out onto the plant floor for a tour or to see any equipment up close. Neckties are portable hangmen's nooses and IMHO are very dangerous to wear on a plant floor. 

I would also make a distinction between being clean cut vs dressing up. IMHO, a man in a nicely tailored suit can still look ridiculous if he's walking around with a 5 o'clock shadow and his hair is styled to look like a troll doll.

I'd also keep in mind that fashion will change over time and that what was once casual 50 years ago may be "dressed up" today. I'm sure if you took a man from the 1700s and showed him some men in suits of the 1940s, the 18th century man would look aghast at how casual the man from the 40s would look.


----------



## bbdad

I work from home. I am either at the gym or home 98% of the time. I don't see a need to be dressy for any of those things.

I am mostly a t-shirt / shorts or "polo" shirt / shorts. I will get dressed up for dances, weddings and things like that. I also live in the desert, so in the summer when it hits 115-120°F, pants and long sleeve shirts are way too hot.

The problem I have is that nothing off of the rack even comes close to fitting. I wear 2XL - 3XL in shirts for the shoulder, neck and arm room, but I have a 33" waist. Absolutely NOTHING off the rack comes close to fitting. If I get it to fit my shoulders / neck / arms, it looks like a hospital gown around my waist.

I have the same problem with pants. Anything that fits my waist won't go over my calves or quads. I have to buy 36-38" waist pants and crank them down with a belt. This makes pants look and feel funny.

I wish nicer clothes weren't made for the stupid skinny jeans look or the general 'fat man' look.


----------



## U.E. McGill

bbdad said:


> I work from home. I am either at the gym or home 98% of the time. I don't see a need to be dressy for any of those things.
> 
> I am mostly a t-shirt / shorts or "polo" shirt / shorts. I will get dressed up for dances, weddings and things like that. I also live in the desert, so in the summer when it hits 115-120°F, pants and long sleeve shirts are way too hot.
> 
> The problem I have is that nothing off of the rack even comes close to fitting. I wear 2XL - 3XL in shirts for the shoulder, neck and arm room, but I have a 33" waist. Absolutely NOTHING off the rack comes close to fitting. If I get it to fit my shoulders / neck / arms, it looks like a hospital gown around my waist.
> 
> I have the same problem with pants. Anything that fits my waist won't go over my calves or quads. I have to buy 36-38" waist pants and crank them down with a belt. This makes pants look and feel funny.
> 
> I wish nicer clothes weren't made for the stupid skinny jeans look or the general 'fat man' look.



Seriously man. Look it up in yelp. I found a little old lady tailor 2 blocks from my home. She'll make any rack suit look like a million bucks. All her stuff starts around $15. Especially since your uniform is generally casual, a few well tailored pieces will last you forever.


----------



## treyvion

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'm sorry ... what am I supposed to see in this picture? ... all I see are some nice legs, everything else is a blur.


Whats the one in the middle trying to attact?


----------



## ReformedHubby

U.E. McGill said:


> Seriously man. Look it up in yelp. I found a little old lady tailor 2 blocks from my home. She'll make any rack suit look like a million bucks. All her stuff starts around $15. Especially since your uniform is generally casual, a few well tailored pieces will last you forever.


I totally get where he is coming from. I'm above average height and shopping for stylish casual clothing is tough. If it wasn't for the internet I would have to dress like I'm an old man. Dress clothes aren't any easier to find. Its always been frustrating for me to go to a department store full of nice suits and be told that they only have four that fit you. Its not that clothing can't be tailored for me. Its that there aren't as many choices available in my size on the rack.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I see white guys, and mostly *I see clothes he's probably had for at least a couple years*. My black friends, they can actually tell you what's trendy. They seemingly have damn near a whole. new. wardrobe. every. season. Shoes especially... the shoes always have to look crisp - new; and they have a ton of them; often even different colors/shades of the SAME shoe for different outfits. The white guys? *Same old sneakers, boots or casual shoe they've had forever that go with everything... and they have 3-4 total pairs of shoes. lol*
> 
> Black guys - accessorize like crazy, all sorts of hats, jewelry etc. Real attention getting stuff. White guys... a baseball cap; a watch... *maybe*.
> 
> Maybe I was born the wrong color, cause damn it... I like hats and bold fashion. lol


I have clothes in my closet that are 20 to 25 years old. I have a sweater that I still wear and is in good condition that my mom bought me for my first year of college in 1985. I actually get compliments on that sweater, lol. I have 3 pairs of shoes ... my daughters each have more pairs of flip-flops than I have shoes.


----------



## Wiltshireman

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I have clothes in my closet that are 20 to 25 years old. I have a sweater that I still wear and is in good condition that my mom bought me for my first year of college in 1985. I actually get compliments on that sweater, lol. I have 3 pairs of shoes ... my daughters each have more pairs of flip-flops than I have shoes.


I know what you mean about old clothes, I still wear my service overalls (30 years old) when I am working on the car, the track suit I wear when I go out jogging (it too cold for just shorts most of the year in the UK) is one I have had since before I got married so 20 years old. I did treat myself to a new black suit for my mother's funeral as the one I had at the time was tight on the waist (I am not as slim as I was at 25) but it still fits me / looks good 7 years later. 

Always buy the best quality / cut (do not worry too much about labels) you can afford as the cheap stuff is cheap for a reason. A pair of Levis and an Fcuk t-shirt cost as much as a suit of the rack (get it tailored if needed), Nike trainers cost more than a good pair of Clarks shoes.

When it comes to footwear I counted up and I have 10 sets, three pairs of dress shoes (one black, one grey, one brown), two pairs of trainers, a pair of "site safety boots" I wear when required, a pair of high leg wellington boots, a pair of hiking boots (that I got to replace the service issue DBS boots I had for years), a pair of saddles for the beach / pool side and a pair of slippers for around the house.

For work I wear dark trousers (not jeans or corduroy), polished shoes, a cotton shirt with tie (full Windsor knot). If I have customer or client meetings then it’s a blue or grey two piece suit. I do NOT take part in "Dress Down Friday" if anything I "Dress Up" just to make the point. I do where jeans / t-shirt if I am working in the garden and will go to the builders merchants in then (or the auto factors in my overalls if working on the car) but if I am going to do the grocery shopping I will shower / change into say chino's and a polo shirt.


----------



## Mr The Other

Wiltshireman said:


> I know what you mean about old clothes, I still wear my service overalls (30 years old) when I am working on the car, the track suit I wear when I go out jogging (*it too cold for just shorts most of the year in the UK*) is one I have had since before I got married so 20 years old. I did treat myself to a new black suit for my mother's funeral as the one I had at the time was tight on the waist (I am not as slim as I was at 25) but it still fits me / looks good 7 years later.
> 
> Always buy the best quality / cut (do not worry too much about labels) you can afford as the cheap stuff is cheap for a reason. A pair of Levis and an Fcuk t-shirt cost as much as a suit of the rack (get it tailored if needed), Nike trainers cost more than a good pair of Clarks shoes.
> 
> When it comes to footwear I counted up and I have 10 sets, three pairs of dress shoes (one black, one grey, one brown), two pairs of trainers, a pair of "site safety boots" I wear when required, a pair of high leg wellington boots, a pair of hiking boots (that I got to replace the service issue DBS boots I had for years), a pair of saddles for the beach / pool side and a pair of slippers for around the house.
> 
> For work I wear dark trousers (not jeans or corduroy), polished shoes, a cotton shirt with tie (full Windsor knot). If I have customer or client meetings then it’s a blue or grey two piece suit. *I do NOT take part in "Dress Down Friday" if anything I "Dress Up" just to make the point. *I do where jeans / t-shirt if I am working in the garden and will go to the builders merchants in then (or the auto factors in my overalls if working on the car) but if I am going to do the grocery shopping I will shower / change into say chino's and a polo shirt.


Well, I agree and disagree with you.

Regarding jogging pants, I am a lazy ******, so I need the incentive to run fast enough to warm up.

I agree about Friday. I dressed up a bit and protested when challenged that the point was that on Friday I could dress however I liked without worrying about fitting in to convention.


----------



## DoF

U.E. McGill said:


> Seriously man. Look it up in yelp. I found a little old lady tailor 2 blocks from my home. She'll make any rack suit look like a million bucks. All her stuff starts around $15. Especially since your uniform is generally casual, a few well tailored pieces will last you forever.


My mom owns an alteration business and I still don't have 1 "well altered" suit or casual wear.

It just doesn't make sense to have these pieces hanging in my closet for me not to EVER wear.


----------



## DoF

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I see white guys, and mostly I see clothes he's probably had for at least a couple years. My black friends, they can actually tell you what's trendy. They seemingly have damn near a whole. new. wardrobe. every. season. Shoes especially... the shoes always have to look crisp - new; and they have a ton of them; often even different colors/shades of the SAME shoe for different outfits. The white guys? Same old sneakers, boots or casual shoe they've had forever that go with everything... and they have 3-4 total pairs of shoes. lol
> 
> Black guys - accessorize like crazy, all sorts of hats, jewelry etc. Real attention getting stuff. White guys... a baseball cap; a watch... *maybe*.
> 
> Maybe I was born the wrong color, cause damn it... I like hats and bold fashion. lol


Quite opposite here. Clothes is similar to cars IMO.

Some like "accessories" and things that get attention (chrome wheels or yellow color).

And some are the opposite (like me)

I don't want to stick out or attract any attention at all. No "nice clothes" that stand out or yellow cars with shiny wheels etc.

I like to be low key, roll through unnoticed.

It's just how I am!

IMO those that strive for attention and go over the top are the ones that NEED it the most cause perhaps they don't get much in real life.


----------



## Mr The Other

DoF said:


> Quite opposite here. Clothes is similar to cars IMO.
> 
> Some like "accessories" and things that get attention (chrome wheels or yellow color).
> 
> And some are the opposite (like me)
> 
> I don't want to stick out or attract any attention at all. No "nice clothes" that stand out or yellow cars with shiny wheels etc.
> 
> I like to be low key, roll through unnoticed.
> 
> It's just how I am!
> 
> IMO those that strive for attention and go over the top are the ones that NEED it the most cause perhaps they don't get much in real life.


Beau Brummell valued understatement. Consider yourself his heir.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

DoF said:


> IMO those that strive for attention and go over the top are the ones that NEED it the most cause perhaps they don't get much in real life.


C'mon, even us guys feel special when we're wearing something snazzy.

Your statement is the equivalent of a declaration that guys who don't dress well are just lazy. There are grains of truth to both, but it probably doesn't justify a sweeping statement.

I enjoy looking good and I'm not gonna lie, I enjoy the attention. I don't see any reason I shouldn't. I really find the notion that we should always be quiet and understated and not shine our brightest to be depressing. Making us just another forgettable passerby in a sea of same. To each his/her own.


----------



## ReformedHubby

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> C'mon, even us guys feel special when we're wearing something snazzy.
> 
> I enjoy looking good and I'm not gonna lie, I enjoy the attention. I don't see any reason I shouldn't. I really find the notion that we should always be quiet and understated and not shine our brightest to be depressing. Making us just another forgettable passerby in a sea of same. To each his/her own.


:iagree:

I won't say clothes are like art or anything like that (although I honestly think some women feel this way about shoes). But I do think clothes are a way that one can express themselves. I enjoy looking good too. 

Growing up I attended private schools where everyone wore the same thing. Although wearing uniforms made it easier to get dressed every morning I really didn't enjoy looking the same as everyone else. I looked forward to the handful of days out of the year we didn't have to wear uniforms.


----------



## ReformedHubby

treyvion said:


> Whats the one in the middle trying to attact?


Just a theory but she's probably trying to attract a man that is dressed nicer than the two she is with. I kid... I kid....


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> I totally get where he is coming from. I'm above average height and shopping for stylish casual clothing is tough. If it wasn't for the internet I would have to dress like I'm an old man. Dress clothes aren't any easier to find. Its always been frustrating for me to go to a department store full of nice suits and be told that they only have four that fit you. Its not that clothing can't be tailored for me. Its that there aren't as many choices available in my size on the rack.


All of my shirts and Jackets must be either custom tailored or custom fitted too , as well.
I have long arms and my upper torso , [ back ,shoulders, arms and chest] are big compared to my waist.


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## Mr The Other

Caribbean Man said:


> All of my shirts and Jackets must be either custom tailored or custom fitted too , as well.
> I have long arms and my upper torso , [ back ,shoulders, arms and chest] are big compared to my waist.


The things I could afford pre-marriage!


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## southbound

I think dressing well still shows a lot of respect in some areas. As the article read, we take things for granted and don't look at things as a privilege like we once did. 

I notice that the president doesn't address the nation in shorts and a tank top. I notice that it still seems appropriate for all the late night hosts to wear a suit and tie, and all the news anchors dress well. There are many, many other examples.


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## Mr The Other

Dress should mark respect for the people you approach. That is why you will wear a suit to a job interview or a wedding. It is also why something OTT annoys, as it is about overshadowing rather than respecting.


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## southbound

Mr The Other said:


> Dress should mark respect for the people you approach. That is why you will wear a suit to a job interview or a wedding. It is also why something OTT annoys, as it is about overshadowing rather than respecting.


That's a good point. I guess that's why i dress the way i do when I go anywhere in public. I know I'm going to be around people, and I guess i respect their presence enough that i assume they don't want to see me half naked or looking like a hobo when I'm really not, even if it's just McDonalds.

My parents had some cousins visit from Chicago a while back and made the comment of how slouch they were when they came in. He said he wondered why people didn't respect you enough to dress decent when they come in your house.


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