# How do couples emotionally work through conflict?



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I am wondering if I have unrealistic expectations of my wife. We have a number of unresolved conflicts in the marriage that we can't get past. (Things are so bad that I will be moving out next month.)

As an example, we are trying to work through a sexless marriage issue. For years, she withdrew from me. She has apologized, and I have apologized for a number of things that I should have been doing better too. She insists that she is still very attracted to me and wants to be with me... occasionally she blames resentment or the kids for her withdrawal, but does not really go into any great detail despite my asking. I have admitted to her that I had to condition myself not to find her attractive in order to function in a marriage like that, and it seems like a tall order to just flip that switch back on.

To her, the talk is over. She's ready for sex any time now, according to her, and now I'm the one forcing her into a sexless marriage if I don't play ball.

To me, the talk is just starting. I have all the symptoms of a guy in that situation - low self esteem, anticipating rejection... it is so bad that something inside me is simply not allowing me to find her attractive. 

To me, I need to understand where her initial withdrawal/resentment came from, so that I can understand her better and so we can both work toward preventing it from happening again. She does not understand how I feel and wonders why this is a concern - again, she's apologized, so to her it's all better.

I have tried very hard to explain "When you... I felt..." in the most non threatening way possible. Every time I try, I am accused of digging up the past. She feels like I am punishing her over and over again by bringing it up at all. I'm just supposed to swallow it and let it sit under the rug - "Hey, we were sexless for a decade but I guess we're all better now because you said so."

I have tried "faking it till you make it" and it hasn't really worked. Deep down inside, I think it is because I fear the same thing will happen again some day because we did not really deal with it this time around.

This is just an example, as this happens with everything from sex to which salad dressing we buy from the store.

I guess my question is, is my need to get to the "why" of an issue reasonable and healthy? So many posters on this site post such well thought out views on things that even when I disagree, I at least see where they are coming from. I wish I could get this from my wife, but I do not know how to get there. She seems so closed off, and it's not just with me - my friends have all commented on it too.

And for all the issues in our marriage, this disconnect is probably the core problem as it relates to all the little issues that add up.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Though MC and discussion; although when we discuss, my H also thinks I am throwing the past in his face. Not intentional on my part, but if there's an issue that caused us pain, yes, it's going to come up from time to time. He's the bury head in sand type - just ignore it and it'll go away! I like to talk things over more.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I can`t help you Acorn as I`m in the same boat.

Different problems but my wife is a rug sweeper.

She has actually accused me of attempting to cause her pain by "talking about our problems".
She told me the reason I bring this stuff up is to hurt her.

So now I just let it all slide as I slowly fall out of love.

Pretty sure where this is going to wind up eventually.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I fear this...what can we do about it?


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I am ready to move out next month, and I've determined this is the core issue for me. There are others, but this is the big one.

My wife told me the same thing - I am hurting her and I need to adjust my expectations and outlook on life.

Every day I feel like, if I could only explain this in exactly the right way, maybe she'd understand what I need. But if I'm just hurting her, and I'm hurting too, what's the point.

Sigh.


----------



## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Have you had marriage counselling?


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

HazelGrove said:


> Have you had marriage counselling?


Yes. The biggest problem there is that the marriage counselor keeps turning to me and says, "Your wife sounds like she accepts and likes herself the way she is." whenever we get stuck. I think that's code for saying she isn't going to change.

I have also done a ton of IC to get past my own demons. Sometimes I look back and don't recognize the guy I was 2 years ago. Most of my changes have been very positive, but I'm really broken up that I'm going to lose my wife over this. (I used to be much more unavailable on an emotional level, and I believe that's why we used to get along so well.)


----------



## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Perhaps she is just like that, by nature. If it's hurting you, perhaps you're not made to be together . 

Does she know you're moving out? If so, what is her reaction?


----------



## Broncos Fan (Mar 1, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I am wondering if I have unrealistic expectations of my wife. We have a number of unresolved conflicts in the marriage that we can't get past. (Things are so bad that I will be moving out next month.)
> 
> As an example, we are trying to work through a sexless marriage issue. For years, she withdrew from me. She has apologized, and I have apologized for a number of things that I should have been doing better too. She insists that she is still very attracted to me and wants to be with me... occasionally she blames resentment or the kids for her withdrawal, but does not really go into any great detail despite my asking. I have admitted to her that I had to condition myself not to find her attractive in order to function in a marriage like that, and it seems like a tall order to just flip that switch back on.
> 
> ...


Thing is, you might actually be in the best possible place you could be given that you tolerated--or at least didn't solve the problem of--a sexless marriage for a decade. I don't mean that in a negative way, but just to point out that a sexless marriage going for that long means that some basic work didn't go on for that long, with almost inevitable results. I get that you have a family and all that and so maybe felt you had to deal with the situation the way you did, but at some point things had to go from okay to not okay, and then once that happened no repair work was done that was sufficient. And now you guys are somehow trying to pretend that you're still in a marriage or something. Anyway, if she let things get that bad, she should be the one on here asking this question and working to fix things. If she just wants to move on as if none of this happened, it isn't gonna work. I don't know, but maybe you can't get going again without some sort of major "reset" in your marriage and in your life. Is that why you plan on leaving next month? Maybe that's the best thing to do, even if you actually want to save your marriage in the end. While on your own, try to become your own person again, and then decide if it's all worth saving or you'd rather try to start over with someone new.


----------



## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Acorn,

I am in a similar position as you, after years of rejection by my W I finally detached myself. Every now and then my W tries but I have my defenses up and keep her at arms length. Like you I don't trust her when it comes to affection and intimacy. Hopefully this will subside someday. In the meantime I just keep trying to work on myself.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

HazelGrove said:


> Perhaps she is just like that, by nature. If it's hurting you, perhaps you're not made to be together .
> 
> Does she know you're moving out? If so, what is her reaction?


I think she wants us to work out, but she is hurt too, and it will not crush her when the date comes.

She feels like a failure. Her needs are continual words of affirmation and appreciation. To her, when I bring up areas of conflict, not only does it hurt her that I dwell on the past from her perspective, but I am making withdrawals from her need bank and it is hurting her.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Broncos Fan said:


> Anyway, if she let things get that bad, she should be the one on here asking this question and working to fix things. ... I don't know, but maybe you can't get going again without some sort of major "reset" in your marriage and in your life. Is that why you plan on leaving next month? Maybe that's the best thing to do, even if you actually want to save your marriage in the end.


My dream is that she'd ask these questions but I know it is not really her way. It used to really anger me, but I've accepted that she does not like major ups and downs or introspection so it is not likely to happen.

Really, I need to separate for the sake of my kids, because they are seeing our relationship and I don't want them to think it is normal. My wife seems ok with the possibility of working on us from a distance, but I'm not really sure how feasible that is.


----------



## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I think she wants us to work out, but she is hurt too, and it will not crush her when the date comes.
> 
> She feels like a failure. Her needs are continual words of affirmation and appreciation. To her, when I bring up areas of conflict, not only does it hurt her that I dwell on the past from her perspective, but I am making withdrawals from her need bank and it is hurting her.


And what do you need from her, at the moment?

You might try showering her with appreciation and affirmation, and see if she softens up and draws closer to you, more open and above all, more trusting? Before we can have full and frank discussions, we must first get to a point of trust and sensitivity between two people. 


A book I read long ago gave a wonderful piece of advice: "advance with the openings, retreat with the closings." It advises being sensitive and responsive to the other's needs for closeness and for aloneness, so that they learn to trust and to open up more readily. In real life, it's not always easy - we all have egos that say "what's in it for me?". We need to silence the ego and not let it take the lead and wreck our relationships. 


Perhaps moving out will lead to better dialogue between you. But it seems that you both could do with understanding and trying to meet each other's needs - learning sensitivity and trust by 'advancing with the openings, retreating with the closings.'


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

HazelGrove said:


> And what do you need from her, at the moment?


I think what I need more than anything else is for her to sit down and understand how her actions have affected me in a few key areas. I do not need her to dwell on her role in the pain since I have forgiven her, but I need her to genuinely be able to empathize with it and understand it so that it can stop. It is death by papercut in my marriage.

I truly believe in my heart that she loves me (and maybe I'm a complete fool for thinking this) but I also know she is extremely blunt and doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about the words she uses. (She's called me a perverted sex addict for wanting sex more than once per month... and that's one of the tame ones.)

I know she is doing all that because she is being defensive and doesn't know how to work through stuff. She doesn't mean it. And I forgive her. The problem is, the stuff keeps happening again and again. Last week I was a selfish ******* because I wanted her to get off Facebook and spend time with me and the kids. The week before I was "such a child" because my youngest made a crass joke and I laughed with him.

Anyway, I forgive her and I understand her but every time something like this happens, I feel less and less appreciated, obviously. It's time I choose not to put up with it any more.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I've accepted that she does not like major ups and downs or introspection ... My wife seems ok with the possibility of working on us from a distance, but I'm not really sure how feasible that is.


My H is just like your W. You can't get blood out of a turnip. The fact that your wife also expects you to be the "affirmation bank" from which she can take infinite withdrawals is unrealistic. We need to affirm and approve of ourselves. Expecting someone else to do it for us is a bit unrealistic. Of course we should validate and affirm our partners, but we can't do it all the time for them.

Working on your problems from a distance. Well, it sounds like your wife is comfortable with distance, even if you're living under the same roof. Some people are more detached, because it is just part of their character. My H has never discussed our issues. It seems to be entrenched in his thinking that marital matters of relative importance don't get discussed.

Why? Because that would dredge up feelings. Lots of folks just suck it up and hold in their feelings. JMO, but I often wonder if people like this were brought up in a home where shows of emotion (good or bad) were stifled. 

I wish you the best in whatever decision you make regarding your marriage.


----------



## Broncos Fan (Mar 1, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I think what I need more than anything else is for her to sit down and understand how her actions have affected me in a few key areas. I do not need her to dwell on her role in the pain since I have forgiven her, but I need her to genuinely be able to empathize with it and understand it so that it can stop. It is death by papercut in my marriage.
> 
> I truly believe in my heart that she loves me (and maybe I'm a complete fool for thinking this) but I also know she is extremely blunt and doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about the words she uses. (She's called me a perverted sex addict for wanting sex more than once per month... and that's one of the tame ones.)
> 
> ...


This just makes me think that the separation may end up being a good thing. You need her help to repair the damage you've experienced in the last decade. The problem is she has no way to do that since some very basic emotional ability seems to be lacking on her part. In some ways I think IC would be more important for her than any MC or other mutual work is for both of you. She's missing some important pieces in the overall "puzzle" and you may end up waiting a long, long time for her to find them, especially if she disagrees that they're missing at all.


----------



## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

No, you shouldn't put up with name-calling, it denotes lack of respect. Blunt or not, nobody has a right to call other people names. It's crossing a boundary. Good on you for putting that boundary up. It doesn't mean you don't forgive her when she crosses it, but you do let her know it's not acceptable. When she calls you names, you can retreat until she apologises. 

But still - when you are not in retreat, I would also use words of appreciation and affirmation, since that is something she needs... especially if it teaches her to trust you enough to open up and have the kind of discussion you wish for.

And I agree with the previous poster - individual therapy might well be of great help to her.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Broncos Fan said:


> This just makes me think that the separation may end up being a good thing. You need her help to repair the damage you've experienced in the last decade. The problem is she has no way to do that since some very basic emotional ability seems to be lacking on her part. In some ways I think IC would be more important for her than any MC or other mutual work is for both of you. She's missing some important pieces in the overall "puzzle" and you may end up waiting a long, long time for her to find them, especially if she disagrees that they're missing at all.


This is exactly how I feel - you worded it a lot better. 

The other part of the equation is that she is also very hurt. I can only imagine what it must be like from her perspective - I have changed a lot, and I'm ready to give her more and expect more in a marriage. It may give her time to heal as well.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

HazelGrove said:


> But still - when you are not in retreat, I would also use words of appreciation and affirmation, since that is something she needs... especially if it teaches her to trust you enough to open up and have the kind of discussion you wish for.
> 
> And I agree with the previous poster - individual therapy might well be of great help to her.


Thank you for that advice, I will try it. It is getting increasingly hard to do, but I will try.

She has tried a few IC sessions but not surprisingly, she does not open up, so there is little the IC can do. She does not have it in her to admit a weakness to someone else... she can barely do it with me, let alone a stranger.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Sometimes it's just over. Good luck with your moving out, and I hope you find happiness someday, either with W or moved on with someone new.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I used to be much more unavailable on an emotional level, and I believe that's why we used to get along so well.


This is a huge statement. Basically you are now in touch with your emotions and you want more of a connection with your wife but she however wants to remain UNemotional and rug sweep.

And yes it's a problem.

I have this problem with my husband but he is willing to do IC, is willing to talk about it, even if at first he resists. He cares that much about me/us to do that. It doesn't sound like your wife does and thats sad.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm sorry that leaving has become necessary.

I am a lot like you... needing to know the 'why' of things. Needing to talk about things in length to gain some understanding. I can't move forward if that doesn't happen, not really. It feels phony to rug sweep.

Some people just can't handle it. They want to ignore, dismiss things they find uncomfortable rather than process those icky feelings. 

My husband and I are both 'why' people (for the most part I am moreso than he is), but he will at least discuss things for as long as it takes for me to be okay with it. He's tried the 'I'm done talking about this' with me and I won't let him off the hook so easy. Not everything needs to be talked to death, but I know when he does that it's because he's uncomfortable with expressing himself and is also afraid that he wouldn't be able to articulate his feelings in a way that I would understand.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> As an example, we are trying to work through a sexless marriage issue. For years, she withdrew from me. She has apologized, and I have apologized for a number of things that I should have been doing better too. She insists that she is still very attracted to me and wants to be with me... occasionally she blames resentment or the kids for her withdrawal, but does not really go into any great detail despite my asking. I have admitted to her that I had to condition myself not to find her attractive in order to function in a marriage like that, and it seems like a tall order to just flip that switch back on.
> 
> To her, the talk is over. She's ready for sex any time now, according to her, and now I'm the one forcing her into a sexless marriage if I don't play ball.


I agree with your wife. Here is why your wife was not having sex with you. She did not undertstand the concept of meeting her partner's needs in a marriage. You have taught her what sex means to you as an emotional need. She is ready to demonstrate that she understands. No man wants his wife fixated on something he mistakenly did in the past. I agree with your wife that you cannot really gain anything by focusing on the past. Instead, expect her to prove every day in the future that she loves you and wants to be part of your marriage.



Acorn said:


> To me, the talk is just starting. I have all the symptoms of a guy in that situation - low self esteem, anticipating rejection... it is so bad that something inside me is simply not allowing me to find her attractive.
> 
> To me, I need to understand where her initial withdrawal/resentment came from, so that I can understand her better and so we can both work toward preventing it from happening again. She does not understand how I feel and wonders why this is a concern - again, she's apologized, so to her it's all better.


Your trying to make her explain something that she cannot explain. The basic reason is that she herself does not feel loved when you are offering her sex, so she would not naturally know that you feel loved when she submits sexually to you. By forcing her to explain something she is incapable of explaining and constantly access problem points in your marraige, you are making a big mistake.





Acorn said:


> I have tried very hard to explain "When you... I felt..." in the most non threatening way possible. Every time I try, I am accused of digging up the past. She feels like I am punishing her over and over again by bringing it up at all. I'm just supposed to swallow it and let it sit under the rug - "Hey, we were sexless for a decade but I guess we're all better now because you said so."
> 
> I have tried "faking it till you make it" and it hasn't really worked. Deep down inside, I think it is because I fear the same thing will happen again some day because we did not really deal with it this time around.


You shoud'nt fear anything. Just resolve in your mind and tell her that if your sex life ever goes to a mode of infrequent sex or rejection, that you will not put up with it. You have the power. You will not hold back for 10 years like you did before. Let your sureness of what your life needs to be like give you confidence to avoid fearing anything.





Acorn said:


> I guess my question is, is my need to get to the "why" of an issue reasonable and healthy? So many posters on this site post such well thought out views on things that even when I disagree, I at least see where they are coming from. I wish I could get this from my wife, but I do not know how to get there. She seems so closed off, and it's not just with me - my friends have all commented on it too.
> 
> And for all the issues in our marriage, this disconnect is probably the core problem as it relates to all the little issues that add up.
> 
> Any help is appreciated, thanks.


It's a very bad strategy to have your wife wallowing in a painful conversation. If she associates painful thoughts with you, she will not want to have sex with you. If she associates conversation with you as difficult and that she will have to dig deep into painful memories, then she will not want to talk to you or have sex with you.

Women by their very nature are protectors of their sexuality. This becuase they go through life with men pursuing them for sex. Many men in a sexless marriage get there because certain things they do cause women to access that part of them that shuts off their sexuality as a protection. Chalk it up to human nature and hold her accountable for the way she acts in the present. This will get you very far.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Does your wife have a history of child sex abuse, sexual assault, other abuse, or have an alcoholic or mentally ill parent?

There are some hints of sex abuse or maybe one of the other things. And maybe none of them. If it is one of those in her past she will need some therapy to figure it out.

Getting to "why" is worth trying. Until you know why, it is difficult to know if things are getting better or just being covered up. Without a good understanding of why all you can do is watch her actions over time.

You screwed up but it does not relieve her of responsibility for her actions or for her responsibility to make an honest effort now at real changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Your trying to make her explain something that she cannot explain. The basic reason is that she herself does not feel loved when you are offering her sex, so she would not naturally know that you feel loved when she submits sexually to you. By forcing her to explain something she is incapable of explaining and constantly access problem points in your marraige, you are making a big mistake.


I wish I could believe this.

One of the problems in the past was that when we had our second child, I was very hesitant to bring another into the family with our sexual relationship on life support. She explained to me that she now understood that sex was important and just like that, everything came back. I trusted her, she got pregnant, and it's been gone ever since.

And guess what, now that I'm about to leave, she understands that sex is important and just like that, everything came back.

Been there, done that.

I feel like I am owed a real explanation as to why this is happening. The explanation I am painting for myself is that she wants a marriage where she does just enough to get by. 

I do things all the time for the simple reason it will make her happy. I do not understand why this concept is foreign to her.


----------



## Broncos Fan (Mar 1, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I wish I could believe this.
> 
> One of the problems in the past was that when we had our second child, I was very hesitant to bring another into the family with our sexual relationship on life support. She explained to me that she now understood that sex was important and just like that, everything came back. I trusted her, she got pregnant, and it's been gone ever since.
> 
> ...


I knew there was a reason I could empathize with your situation so much. I agree that this dynamic can be really bothersome in a marriage. I'm going through it a bit myself right now, though not on the subject of a lack of sex. It can be very unsettling once you notice a pattern of your spouse giving you what you've long been saying you need, but only when they are trying to get something for themselves (another child) or keep you from doing something against their interests (you moving out). I've said before that I think your separation might be a good idea, though I usually don't think separation is a good method for solving marriage problems. Maybe she'd finally understand a little more of where you're coming from once you've really drawn a line.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I feel like I am owed a real explanation as to why this is happening. The explanation I am painting for myself is that *she wants a marriage where she does just enough to get by*.


She does just enough to get what she wants/needs out of it. 

You are a useful tool used to acheive her own goals or satisfy her desires. When you show her you want more, and are willing to provide some consequences to her lack of giving back, THAT'S when she comes around. She's about to lose her sponsor.

IDK but that's the impression that I get from what you've said here. I was married to a man like her. Classic taker. I was only acknowledged when I left him. I left twice, came back both times... after that I was done. He hadn't changed a thing. Only did enough to keep me hanging on. It was about him, not both of us.

Like you said, been there, done that... I even bought the t-shirt.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Yes, and the thing is, I've grown up a lot since posting here, and I would be simply overjoyed if she would say, "I am not attracted to you any more. I'm really sorry. It's why sex is so hard for me."

At least it would be a start to a discussion, even if that discussion led to divorce.

Her inability to reconcile actions with words has been slowly killing me for years and it is difficult to believe things she says because of it.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

IVY.

Just let me off the hook already... be straight with me so I can know for sure what my next step is.

It sucks she can't do that for you. She would rather watch you walk out the door than do THAT much for you.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Acorn said:


> I feel like I am owed a real explanation as to why this is happening.


This is the language of entitlement. With all due respect, if your w is like mine she would be more likely able to save herself from drowning than to explain her emotional state. Myself, I forgive my wife for everything and put it all behind me


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> This is the language of entitlement. With all due respect, if your w is like mine she would be more likely able to save herself from drowning than to explain her emotional state. Myself, I forgive my wife for everything and put it all behind me



Entitlement? Hmmm. That's an interesting point.

I strongly believe that in marriage that a spouse IS entitled to know what's going on at least 90% of the time with their partner. It's not a parent/child relationship, it's a relationship between two consenting adults. 

If you've asked all the right questions and still come up with bupkis, it's the responsibility of the person causing the confusion to clear things up. In a parent/child relationship you don't have to do this, but in a marriage? You do owe your partner something. 

The 'just go along with me no matter what I say or do' is destructive.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> This is the language of entitlement. With all due respect, if your w is like mine she would be more likely able to save herself from drowning than to explain her emotional state. Myself, I forgive my wife for everything and put it all behind me


Good luck with that.

I`ll pass on the strategy however, I like to know what`s going on.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I wish I could believe this.
> 
> One of the problems in the past was that when we had our second child, I was very hesitant to bring another into the family with our sexual relationship on life support. She explained to me that she now understood that sex was important and just like that, everything came back. I trusted her, she got pregnant, and it's been gone ever since.
> 
> ...


Here is your real explanation of why this is happening.
Women do not truly understand what sex means to their man. The reason they do not understand this is because ... All men want sex, so a man who wants to have sex with a woman is not showing love to that woman. On the flip side, while men puruse many women for sex, only a very few actually give it to them, so Men equate sex with love. Women spend their whole life prior to marriage trying to avoid getting sexual with men who are constantly pursing it. It is very hard to shut off this sex blocking. The way they shut it off is to give themselves a reason to be sexual with a man. Your wife demonstrated this. She was sexual in order to have children and now is sexual in order to keep her marriage. This is the way a man ends a sexless marriage: To make his wife give herself the reason to be sexual (keep her marriage). 

Now, your last paragraph is very important. You have to have that exact conversation with her.... That in your marraige you will do things to make her happy because that's the type of person you are, and it brings you great happiness to be that type of person. Ask her if she is willing to be that type of person to meet her husband's needs for the sheer joy of being a good wife and the personal fulfillment that brings to her... And if she admits she is unwilling to do this, then you are right to pursue leaving.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Hicks, I will try that. 

This is probably an incredibly child-like way of thinking about it, but I'm wondering if it is all worth it. Ten years of trouble and rejection, and the best I can come up with is to force my wife to have sex with me under the threat of the loss of her marriage.

I think forcing a sexless marriage on a spouse is pretty heartless and I guess consistent with that, I'm feeling like forcing her to do something she doesn't really want to do is pretty heartless too. It does seem like the right thing to do is leave.

Wish I could bridge the gap between her participating and her actually wanting to participate. You can just tell.


----------

