# Its very telling when they avoid "the talk"



## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

If you hurt a friend, a coworker, a family member in the worst way wouldnt it be YOU that wants to pick up the phone and talk to them and let them know how sorry you are? After my world has been turned upside down, I've cried countless days and nights, I've been made to feel like grabage, taken advantage of , humuliated, lied to..............HE avoids speaking to me about it like Im sentencing him to death row. Like a slipery snake he'll find an excuse to avoid the conversation. Not on Sundays before church, not in the morning before work, not when the kids are around, etc. Its beyond frustrating because I need to address a million things and HE avoids the entire topic. Its HIM that hurt ME so wouldnt it be HIM that should be looking to speak to me about things? Good or bad shoudnt it be him that is trying to hear what I have to say? 
Its very telling . He's not remorsefull AT ALL. He just wants me to sweep it all under the rug and avoid taking ownership of it. His lack of wanting to address it tells me he doesnt care how I feel. Every day I learn something new about this stranger I married and had a child with. Such a sneaky person. 

Why wont he face me??????


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What are you going to do then?
What are you actualy doing about it?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

short of attacking him at the door with what we need to talk about....nothing. I've given up. Its just more evidence for me to realize Im not dealing with my husband anymore. Dont know who this is. As frustrating as it is......it makes me less and less sad. Its like morning a fictional character from a movie. His squirming around is disgusting and pathetic. I would be so much better if he left. We have FIVE kids, you'd think he'd want to talk?

What am I doing? Nothing . Nothing at all till he cant take it anymore and wants to talk about it. The more I approach him the more he runs away. Just wanted to know if anyone here either has been avoided or if you are the cheater why do you avoid addressing it?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

One thing I've learned after 2 years of R with my WW, is that she will never bring the subject up if I don't. Obviously she wants to avoid rehashing the pain, and at this point, (most of the time) so do I.

But there is difference in a WS not initiating the conversation as opposed to refusing to discuss it when you bring it up. That wouldn't be something that I would accept - and you shouldn't either.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you badmemory. I dont see how in the world a R is possible between us. I want to talk about what our next steps are with our kids etc. I dont get it. His plan all along ( cause he said so ) was to figure out how to leave me and the kids and go be with this woman. Always trying to plan how and when . Like an obession. Now that he got caught he's at a stand still. WHY? Why if these were his plans does he not act on it now that its out? Is it because she is also married and doesnt want her security taken away? Is it because they were both exposed as cheaters? I dont get why he's still here just because he got caught. He was planning on leaving me and the kids anyway? 

When I do speak to him..........he says NOTHING. No responce.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Tell him to schedule a time this week that works for him. Do not let this to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

From what you describe in your earlier posts, your WH could easily be considered a serial cheater. Often people like this know no other life than the 'cozy, comforting wife/kids at home + lots and lots of cheating on the side.' The double life is organic to them and since they know no other way to live, they can't easily 'explain' themselves to people. So, he could be a coward (well...he's definitely a coward), but he could also be incapable of talking about his behavior at the level that a person within the norm, like yourself, can grasp at all.

Read up on serial cheaters. Maybe that will inform you enough to motivate you to be the one to make the move toward divorce.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<< He's not remorsefull AT ALL. He just wants me to sweep it all under the rug and avoid taking ownership of it. His lack of wanting to address it tells me he doesnt care how I feel. Every day I learn something new about this stranger I married and had a child with. Such a sneaky person. >>

In my opinion, the refusing to talk, is not the major problem here, it's a symptom of the larger problem which you stated above. He is not remorseful, he doesn't care how you feel, he wants to sweep it under the rug (more like underground) and his plan was to leave you. This is the real problem.

You cannot change who he is. You cannot make him remorseful if he is not. If he is going to leave he will and why would you want him to stay?

I would take care of yourself. Stop asking him to talk, he resents it so it will never be helpful. Start doing what's right for you,, talk to a lawyer about divorce, separate your money in the bank so half of it is in your own account that he does not have access to. 

Start making plans that don't include him. Do what makes YOU happy and your kids safe. Leave him alone, be neutral or cheerful with him, but don't engage in conversations unless he comes to you asking for reconciliation. If that happens, and you still want him, set hard boundaries and let him know the real consequences if he fails to honor them.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> From what you describe in your earlier posts, your WH could easily be considered a serial cheater. Often people like this know no other life than the 'cozy, comforting wife/kids at home + lots and lots of cheating on the side.' The double life is organic to them and since they know no other way to live, they can't easily 'explain' themselves to people. So, he could be a coward (well...he's definitely a coward), but he could also be incapable of talking about his behavior at the level that a person within the norm, like yourself, can grasp at all.
> 
> Read up on serial cheaters. Maybe that will inform you enough to motivate you to be the one to make the move toward divorce.


This is a great description. Thank you so much. Every day I have to remind myself that Im not dealing with the "norm". I bang my head against the wall trying to figure things out. The way you defined what Im dealing with is as accurate as if you knew him personally. The part of lots and lots of cheating on the side is like a kick to my stomach but its true. 
You have no idea how accurate you are on everything though. Will save this to remind me when Im trying to figure things out.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you PamJ. No I do not want him. There is no R here. I am cheerful and neutrul with him for the kids and my sanity. I no longer cry but I guess its my hard head telling me that I can get across to him the damage he's done. Not that there is a chance to fix it but to get this stuff out of my head and chest and out there. 

I dont know how in the world I ended up with this in my life for the SECOND TIME.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Also try to remember that people like this are used to having society's condemnation. (They often think that the rest of us are just in denial about our true non-monogamous natures, but they nonetheless realize that they have to live in society, so they pay lip service to the monogamous traditions.)

It's sometimes simply easier for a serial cheat to stay silent than it is to deal with the expected condemnation. They just take the chance that there's a sliver of a possibility that they won't have to try to explain themselves, so they clam up, hoping that they can avoid it.

You already know so much. I'm hoping you will just cut your losses now.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

stuck on hold said:


> Thank you PamJ. *No I do not want him. There is no R here.* I am cheerful and neutrul with him for the kids and my sanity. I no longer cry but I guess its my hard head telling me that I can get across to him the damage he's done. Not that there is a chance to fix it but to get this stuff out of my head and chest and out there.
> 
> I dont know how in the world I ended up with this in my life for the SECOND TIME.


Many of us want answers, I got mine and it was driving me nuts when I was not getting them. My wife did a lot of the heavy lifting, repented, confessed and still answers questions. She too does not want to talk about it but she will with me and she does so willingly. I know she does not want to talk about and I don't bring it up much, but like the other day I had some questions and she answered them. 

Now I want to focused on the bold above. If you do not want him and there will be no R, then let him go. Stop letting him rent space in your head. He has little to no remorse, will not do any of the heavy lifting, and this all means he could care less about you. Don't listen to anything else he says or does, if he does not give you what you want and need then nothing else should matter.

I still thinks he feels bad about being caught and that his little world is stinking right now.

You really need to detach from all this and that is where you need to focus your mental energy.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

I do know so much Alte Dame...........This is just me trying to make sense of all of this. What did I miss coming into this relationship? Why didint I flee earlier ? Trying to talk to somone who as you said earlier is incapable of understanding. I think that by talking I'll have some understanding. Not for any R but my goodness this is the father of my child. Can you please be a man and stop avoiding the issues? 
What I want for him is for him to get exactly what he wished for. Everything about it. This so called life with the mistress. I hope he gets it all. Every ounce of his wishes. I'll be sitting by with a glass of wine watching it all.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Now I want to focused on the bold above. If you do not want him and there will be no R, then let him go. Stop letting him rent space in your head. He has little to no remorse, will not do any of the heavy lifting, and this all means he could care less about you. Don't listen to anything else he says or does, if he does not give you what you want and need then nothing else should matter.

I still thinks he feels bad about being caught and that his little world is stinking right now.

You really need to detach from all this and that is where you need to focus your mental energy.[/QUOTE]

nope, no remorse. Its exactly what you say, his remorse that his little world is no longer. Its remorse that the games were disrupted. How sad to have been sleeping with the enemy and did not even know it.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

I guess I should give up on having the talk or a talk or talk of any kind. I shouldnt bother.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Write out your questions and ask him to write a timeline and history of all his affairs. Tell him how would he like it if you had affairs, wouldn't he want the details so he could get some closure?

Tell him he ripped your heart out and threw it on the floor and danced on it. Tell him to pick it up, clean it off, put it back into your chest and get it beating again. 

Tell him how it made you feel, does he have any compassion? and his OW-if she will cheat with him, she will cheat on him! He needs to get his head out of the affair fog. He will be paying big Money for child support and alimony.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

harrybrown said:


> Write out your questions and ask him to write a timeline and history of all his affairs. Tell him how would he like it if you had affairs, wouldn't he want the details so he could get some closure?
> 
> Tell him he ripped your heart out and threw it on the floor and danced on it. Tell him to pick it up, clean it off, put it back into your chest and get it beating again.
> 
> Tell him how it made you feel, does he have any compassion? and his OW-if she will cheat with him, she will cheat on him! He needs to get his head out of the affair fog. He will be paying big Money for child support and alimony.


If R would be an option perhaps the above would be helpful. But under the circumstances I believe it will make her look pitiful and she is not pitiful.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you Harrybrown and yes, Thorburn is correct. If R was even a thought maaaaaaaaaybe I'd tell him all that but there's not. This is just me wanting to be heard but not to be heard for a R. Just for the sake that Im the mother of your children I should AT LEAST be heard. However like I've read time and time again. He doesnt care enough to listen. 
He is at home as if we are going through a hicup. Its insanity. I really struggle with being "normal" and trying to deal with insanity so I come here and vent just to give myself a sanity check.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Thank you Harrybrown and yes, Thorburn is correct. If R was even a thought maaaaaaaaaybe I'd tell him all that but there's not. This is just me wanting to be heard but not to be heard for a R. Just for the sake that Im the mother of your children I should AT LEAST be heard. However like I've read time and time again. He doesnt care enough to listen.
> He is at home as if we are going through a hicup. Its insanity. I really struggle with being "normal" and trying to deal with insanity so I come here and vent just to give myself a sanity check.


Stuck,

You gave you husband the gift of attempted R. He had his chance to show remorse. He didn't. You can at least look back and know you gave your marriage every opportunity after what he did to you.

You deserve better. Go find it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Just fyi, OP.

These are the threads of a serial cheater called 'the bishop' who posted here for a while. If you read them, you can see how little people like this really care about the hurt their spouses feel. (You can especially see how different their thought processes are in general. Really no empathy.)

At one point, this particular poster decided he didn't want to do this to his BW anymore and came clean. She threw him out and divorced him; he was hoping she would try to reconcile because, even with everything he had done, he felt he loved her. I asked him whether she would try to save the marriage & he told me that he had been hoping. He said that he had 'pulled the wool over her eyes' for their whole marriage & thought he could manage it again, but she was much smarter than he had given her credit for.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...al-cheater-narcissist-change-his-stripes.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/58595-cheaters-going-cheat-unless.html


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Alte Dame , thank you for this! I will read. I need to get it through my thick skull that what I say means so little to him. This is really my only struggle with all of this. The NEED to want to spill out my guts to him. If I would come to grips that what I say will go in one ear and out the other I can just let it go. Even though I dont want a R with him and even though Im no longer hurting because of some dying love for him at all , I will admit that realizing he doesnt care how his actions made me feel is hurtfull. I need to understand his mindset so it doesnt hurt .


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

stuck on hold said:


> Alte Dame , thank you for this! I will read. I need to get it through my thick skull that what I say means so little to him. This is really my only struggle with all of this. The NEED to want to spill out my guts to him. If I would come to grips that what I say will go in one ear and out the other I can just let it go. Even though I dont want a R with him and even though Im no longer hurting because of some dying love for him at all , I will admit that realizing he doesnt care how his actions made me feel is hurtfull. I need to understand his mindset so it doesnt hurt .


Don't run from the hurt, it will not work. Don't try to understand it all, that in many cases will not work as well. The pain you feel is a normal responce to the betrayal. What you should try to focus your energy on is healing. That would be a far more worthwhile goal.


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## Overthemoon88 (Jan 10, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> From what you describe in your earlier posts, your WH could easily be considered a serial cheater. Often people like this know no other life than the 'cozy, comforting wife/kids at home + lots and lots of cheating on the side.' The double life is organic to them and since they know no other way to live, they can't easily 'explain' themselves to people. So, he could be a coward (well...he's definitely a coward), but he could also be incapable of talking about his behavior at the level that a person within the norm, like yourself, can grasp at all.
> 
> Read up on serial cheaters. Maybe that will inform you enough to motivate you to be the one to make the move toward divorce.


That's the man I married too ... And soon about to divorce


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> Don't run from the hurt, it will not work. Don't try to understand it all, that in many cases will not work as well. The pain you feel is a normal responce to the betrayal. What you should try to focus your energy on is healing. That would be a far more worthwhile goal.


yes, would be more worthwhile. The mind is a terrible thing sometimes. Every now and then ( not often anymore ) my mind dips into the details ( and I know MANY DETAILS ) of his EA and inbetween PA and its like getting kicked in the stomach. Same feeling you get when watching a scary movie.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Alte Dame, 

I read part 1 of the post from THE BISHOP. My eyes wide open and my stomach in knots. Wow............ 

Looking forward to Part 2. 

I think all of us wonded spouses ( sorry dont know the initials for this stuff yet ) should read and re read his postings. yikes , very scary


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Overthemoon88 said:


> That's the man I married too ... And soon about to divorce



Please read what Alte Dame suggested. Links are on his post to me.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Not wanting to talk about it and refusing to are very different things. 

If you'd done something horrible, shameful and hurtful to that extent, it's not something you really want to face and discuss in great detail.

It is something you WOULD do to help the person you've harmed heal and reconcile (if possible).


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Moulin..... Excellent point . Exactly what I know down deep. It is something you would WANT to discuss to help if you cared but he obviously doesn't so it's more confirmation for me. Funny though, in his email exchanges with his mistress he was FULL ON detail by detail about any and all the emotions he felt for her. About their relationship before and after and now. It's like I was reading emails from the most expressive person on earth. Not the NON communicative person I'm married to but almost like the woman version of the man I'm with! He spoke in detail about his feelings, his hopes, his thoughts you name it. 
I did learn that when they were living together years back after he left his first wife for her he also cheated on this "so called love if his life" with another woman because she was ignoring him and not treating him nice. So lot of good his "love" is or was cause he cheated on her as well. 
I'm so sad he's the father of my son ... Oh my God
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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