# Changing for your partner



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Never change for anyone.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I will usually change $100 bills. My wife can’t stand them so I will trade her all my 20s. Other than that I refuse to change.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


Since I’ve got lots of practice, I find life is so much easier just being myself.

So as always, all of my partners both past and present. Have always been welcome to take me as I am or find someone else.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Depends on what is being asked to change. Such as a negative thing like behavioral issues that no one would/should tolerate, or a positive thing like a hobby/interests.

No one should start a new relationship hoping the other person will change though. 

A person also shouldn't change themselves to put on a show for a new partner. That isn't fair to either party.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Never change for anyone.


Yet they also say relationships are about growth and making changes for each other.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Yet they also say relationships are about growth and making changes for each other.


Don't believe that hype


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


I guess that depends upon how much are you committed to your marriage? How much do you love your wife?

I would change myself in many ways to be a better husband, a better human being, a better lover, and a better partner. I would not change my morals, ethics, or honesty. I would not change my commitment to marriage or my wedding vows.

Also, when I was trying to heal myself while in a sex starved marriage, I didn't change myself for my partner, I changed myself for me.....to be a better more integrated man, a man that my wife could fall in love with again.

You can't force your spouse to change, they can only change themselves. The same is true for you. You have to change yourself. Your spouse may like the changes you make, but they are changes that YOU make.

Good luck.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Never change for anyone.


Depends on boob size.


----------



## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Depends on the change. But if it’s personality type stuff she’s asking you to change, hard pass. Stay who you are.


----------



## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


Well, I myself do like a normal me so far. I've had ADHD all my life and didn't understand till recently what was going on with me. Now I do and am working with drs about treatment. Will figure out how I am then. Change in this way is good.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

While everyone’s going to say don’t change for your partner, don’t change for anyone, I think it’s a yes and a no question.
While I agree that you should not change solely for your partner and you should never change in a direction you don’t want to go, I think there’s a big caveat (or at least room for some nuance).

“People should except you as you are, just be yourself”… sure, but what if you suck?
The reality is, you’re not all you could be, or should be.
There are probably things about you that are great, and there are certainly things about you that need improvement.
And you should be continually improving yourself changing yourself for the better, for YOU.
That said, sometimes we are good self motivators, and sometimes we’re not.

So if your spouse motivates you (either positively or negatively) to change things that you should already be changing for yourself, but aren’t - then yes, you should change for your spouse, if that’s the additional motivation it takes to initiate a positive change.

While I get the “never let someone change who you are” sentiment (and largely agree with it), the whole “take me as I am or **** off“ thing can get counterproductive if not balanced with the recognition that you do need to be continually evaluating and improving yourself.


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Married 27 years. Together 34. Dh went out 2-3 times a week drinking first6-7 years, he cut back to twice a month max years ago. But back a lot and saved the marriage. Worth it? I’d say 3/5 times a week passionate sex the last 30 years is worth it


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Never change for anyone.


Who hurt you? Never see. Someone so bitter.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Who hurt you? Never see. Someone so bitter.


Read his story. 

Find out. 

I think Numb has done nothing but kick ass and take names since he got here. I can say this - I've dealt with a lot of crap. If I has to deal with what Numb did? I would have fallen apart.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Young at Heart said:


> I guess that depends upon how much are you committed to your marriage? How much do you love your wife?
> 
> I would change myself in many ways to be a better husband, a better human being, a better lover, and a better partner. I would not change my morals, ethics, or honesty. I would not change my commitment to marriage or my wedding vows.
> 
> ...





DudeInProgress said:


> While everyone’s going to say don’t change for your partner, don’t change for anyone, I think it’s a yes and a no question.
> While I agree that you should not change solely for your partner and you should never change in a direction you don’t want to go, I think there’s a big caveat (or at least room for some nuance).
> 
> “People should except you as you are, just be yourself”… sure, but what if you suck?
> ...


Expecting change from your partner or accepting them for who they are?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Expecting change from your partner or accepting them for who they are?


That’s a completely different question. 
Big difference between expecting to change your partner, and being willing to change as a partner.
Never go into a relationship expecting to change the other person.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Who hurt you? Never see. Someone so bitter.


His story is pretty bad. Yeah, he’s bitter, but there’s a good reason. 😔


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DudeInProgress said:


> That’s a completely different question.
> Big difference between expecting to change your partner, and being willing to change as a partner.
> Never go into a relationship expecting to change the other person.


Yet as time goes by, relationships evolve, they grow, and is this not a part of growing together? Changing together? Becoming better together?
Hence we start to expect changes, for our partners to put in the 'effort' into the relationship. Into growth.

Not me though, I seem to love a different way. I just accept them for who they are. If they can change a few things, yay, if not, I'll still love them.

It's a curious thing


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

SCDad01 said:


> Depends on the change. But if it’s personality type stuff she’s asking you to change, hard pass. Stay who you are.


Eh. What if you are someone who has unhealthy, unfair, and reactive ways of dealing with situations? What if you are someone who gives the silent treatment and **** like what? You don’t think you should change negative personality traits so you can a have a good relationship?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Not me though, I seem to love a different way. I just accept them for who they are. If they can change a few things, yay, if not, I'll still love them.
> 
> It's a curious thing


Sure, as long as who they are is acceptable in the first place. 
If their initial baseline was not acceptable or compatible with your standards, that will be problematic.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Yet as time goes by, relationships evolve, they grow, and is this not a part of growing together? Changing together? Becoming better together?
> Hence we start to expect changes, for our partners to put in the 'effort' into the relationship. Into growth.
> 
> Not me though, I seem to love a different way. I just accept them for who they are. If they can change a few things, yay, if not, I'll still love them.
> ...


Being broadly accepting of one another is part of a solid foundation.

However.... I don't think it's cut and dry. One can still love the other yet there may be certain traits that are perhaps less reasonable to 'accept'. I also don't view certain changes as cut and dry in terms of it being changing _for _one's partner. I think in part it could be recognizing what impacts the couple's dynamic, positively and negatively, and whether a reasonable (which is subjective) change could nurture the dynamic, and potentially also be beneficial to the individual on its own accord.

I know that certain aspects of my _being_ have changed as a direct result of our relationship, and vice verse; such as in our communication style and conflict and resolving conflict together.

However, here's a small example of a change whereby my past actions now feel foreign to me. My husband is, and has consistently been, reliably punctual. Whereas I was typically consistently late to social things. One particular night when I was yet again running late, Batman expressed why punctuality is important to him and made it clear that my tardiness wasn't cool with him. I then absorbed the connection between punctuality and respect, and pretty much from then on made sure that I was punctual. It was a slight adjustment in habits/mindset at the time. As stated, my past approach now feels foreign to me. Almost embarrassingly so. While he essentially set that he didn't 'accept' that trait, I respected his take and that it was certainly more than reasonable for me to adjust. These days (and have been for years now) I'm consistently punctual regardless of whether he's part of those social plans or not. And it feels much better for me too as an individual. LONG gone are the days where I'd be frantically rushing into a place with excuses and apologies. Ugh, not cool. Now I'm there, ready, often the first to arrive, and it's a more relaxed way of being for myself let alone demonstrating respect to others. While unexpected things can happen, being on time does communicate respect, reliability and trust. So anyway, there's that. Batman corrupted me into doing 'better'.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DudeInProgress said:


> Sure, as long as who they are is acceptable in the first place.
> If their initial baseline was not acceptable or compatible with your standards, that will be problematic.





heartsbeating said:


> Being broadly accepting of one another is part of a solid foundation.
> 
> However.... I don't think it's cut and dry. One can still love the other yet there may be certain traits that are perhaps less reasonable to 'accept'. I also don't view certain changes as cut and dry in terms of it being changing _for _one's partner. I think in part it could be recognizing what impacts the couple's dynamic, positively and negatively, and whether a reasonable (which is subjective) change could nurture the dynamic, and potentially also be beneficial to the individual on its own accord.
> 
> ...


That's the issue, when acceptance and change are at odds. On one hand, one may desire to be accepted for who they are, the other may desire change. Change takes patience and from someone who wants to change. At the same time patience runs thin when there is no acceptance.

It's a paradox where one requires the other yet contradicts it entirely.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

life changes all of us , 
I am happy to not be the person I was 30 years ago , the world I live in has all so changed , 
there is nothing wrong with change 

what is important is if the changes sit good with you , that you can be happy living with the changed you 
It can be the same as a person that dresses in a style if the style is part of them an extension of themselves and not a disguise .


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

people often say we become more like the person we live with and the people we interact with 
it is often said about a couple that are together for 25/30 years that they start to take on things from each other but this is slowly and over a long time , trying to make big changed and if they don't sit well with you will not work


----------



## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Eh. What if you are someone who has unhealthy, unfair, and reactive ways of dealing with situations? What if you are someone who gives the silent treatment and **** like what? You don’t think you should change negative personality traits so you can a have a good relationship?


Those are traits you should want to change on your own.. preferably before getting into a relationship.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


As far as growth where possibly needed? As much as you can. 

As far as who you fundamentally are? Unless you're a villain, probably shouldn't attempt.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

If it is a habit like the way you speak to them, or closing the kitchen cabinets when you're done or washing the dishes you dirtied, and they ask, I would say a concerted effort to change is a sign you care. Change who you are fundamentally? I don't know about all that. I have changed the type of food I make when living with the 2 LT partners I have lived with. Habits change I guess because with one we went on a lot more road trips. I guess you should do your best to compromise and find a middle ground about the small things. But if you are with an addict, that is hard for them to change. Sometimes you just need to cut ties and move on.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


Never change your values but if you view change more as opening yourself up to new & different experiences, change can be beneficial. It's about learning from the people in your life. 

My husband is a quiet introvert. I learned how to me more accepting & appreciative of silence. I taught him about travel and introduced him to food & wine. Before me he ate oatmeal for breakfast every day & pasta for dinner, occasionally having a chicken breast on a special occasion . Now his world has opened up a bit more. 

Prior BFs taught me various things like how to play golf, how to use a computer, how to fish, how to tend bar, how to cook, etc. Change can be positive. Not evolving makes you stagnant.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

I've made some changes for me. Those that line up with W is a plus. There are a couple things that went her way, a couple went not her way but a plus overall. 
So this is indeed a yes and no question. M many years.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

frenchpaddy said:


> life changes all of us ,
> I am happy to not be the person I was 30 years ago , the world I live in has all so changed ,
> there is nothing wrong with change
> 
> ...





ConanHub said:


> As far as growth where possibly needed? As much as you can.
> 
> As far as who you fundamentally are? Unless you're a villain, probably shouldn't attempt.





joannacroc said:


> If it is a habit like the way you speak to them, or closing the kitchen cabinets when you're done or washing the dishes you dirtied, and they ask, I would say a concerted effort to change is a sign you care. Change who you are fundamentally? I don't know about all that. I have changed the type of food I make when living with the 2 LT partners I have lived with. Habits change I guess because with one we went on a lot more road trips. I guess you should do your best to compromise and find a middle ground about the small things. But if you are with an addict, that is hard for them to change. Sometimes you just need to cut ties and move on.





D0nnivain said:


> Never change your values but if you view change more as opening yourself up to new & different experiences, change can be beneficial. It's about learning from the people in your life.
> 
> My husband is a quiet introvert. I learned how to me more accepting & appreciative of silence. I taught him about travel and introduced him to food & wine. Before me he ate oatmeal for breakfast every day & pasta for dinner, occasionally having a chicken breast on a special occasion . Now his world has opened up a bit more.
> 
> Prior BFs taught me various things like how to play golf, how to use a computer, how to fish, how to tend bar, how to cook, etc. Change can be positive. Not evolving makes you stagnant.





CountryMike said:


> I've made some changes for me. Those that line up with W is a plus. There are a couple things that went her way, a couple went not her way but a plus overall.
> So this is indeed a yes and no question. M many years.


Sure, we can make changes to accommodate our partner but when it is demanded how are we to feel accepted by our partners as flawed human beings?

I feel I have the right to ask for change but if I love someone what right do I have to demand and expect it? Some things are just difficult to change, like ex and her nagging or me shutting down emotionally during our fights she always instigated.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, change that happens naturally, organically, is fine; this is what growth over time is about, based on life experiences and changing needs and priorities. Change you make for your _own _reasons, in order to improve yourself, is great. Change to please someone else - unless it _also _is your own priority - rarely lasts or becomes ingrained, so isn't worth the effort.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

I‘ve made many changes. Can‘t say she‘s made any.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Sure, we can make changes to accommodate our partner but when it is demanded how are we to feel accepted by our partners as flawed human beings?
> 
> I feel I have the right to ask for change but if I love someone what right do I have to demand and expect it? Some things are just difficult to change, like ex and her nagging or me shutting down emotionally during our fights she always instigated.


The demand this or that never ever works. And shouldn't.


----------



## Reluctant Texan (6 mo ago)

Objective changes to behavior are more reasonable in a relationship:


stop leaving the toilet seat up
stop drinking so much
stick to a budget
stop going to strip clubs

All okay. Clear communications of what you want to change, and complying with them would not make anyone objectionably worse off

Changes with vague criteria that are impossible to judge complete or require the other partner to basically "keep jumping til I say stop" are bad, and not worth trying to meet. 

Or those require more spending or one partner to spend more of their free time on the other? Hmmm... these require more skepticism.

- "speak to me more nicely"
Okay... this could be reasonable. But are you just policing your partner's tone to keep him or
her from pointing out something you don't want to hear?

- be kinder to me
Sure, no one should be unkind in a relationship. but again, the context matters a lot.

- "I want to spend more time together"
How much? Better than making an open-ended demand, put something objective behind it. Eat dinner together? Go for a walk every night? Okay.

Ask your partner to sit there while you complain about your day? Yikes! For how long? Every night?

Manipulative requests that will be impossible to meet?

- "_i need to see commitment from you"_
Why? Did they cheat? How much is enough?

- "_I need to see that you love me enough_"
Yikes! If you hear things like this, start planning your exit...


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

One of the most common marriage problems I see is when the marriage is a competitive relationship rather than a cooperative one. One person has to "lead," has to be the "boss," the "captain." One person has to WIN, no matter the cost. If one person is winning, the other is losing. When over the course of years, one person finds they are always cast at the "loser," and will have no peace until they lose and submit and surrender, they could eventually and understandably become resentful. It doesn't always happen, sometimes both people want the marriage to be all about one of them instead of about both of them. It's important to be sure everyone is on the same page with that kind of thing.

There are changes that people will ask a spouse AFTER marriage that are unreasonable. Those are easy to point out and recognize as the manipulative demands they are. But when you're talking about changing as in, being considerate, treating EACH OTHER with respect (it has to go both ways, and a pat on the head is not respect), and working together to make each other happy instead of one spouse working to make the other happy while the other generously allows them to dedicate their lives to them, then it's less likely going to work and you're could get statements like "They tried to change me."

Also, if you see long term relationships as a kind of trap, possibly due to a failed marriage prior, then you're not in a good mental place to marry. It's better to abstain from LTRs that push your unresolved issues on another person.


----------



## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

The woman I love is gorgeous from the tip of her head to the tips of her toes. She is well endowed and beautiful all over. She is a gorgeous woman, with a sweet character, and is very intelligent, talented, and caring.

If there is something in my character or behavior that bothers her, I'll do my upmost best to change my ways.

I keep myself well groomed and in great shape for my age. I'll do whatever it takes to keep the woman I love attracted to me sexually! She will know just how much I love her at all times!


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> One of the most common marriage problems I see is when the marriage is a competitive relationship rather than a cooperative one. One person has to "lead," has to be the "boss," the "captain." One person has to WIN, no matter the cost. If one person is winning, the other is losing. When over the course of years, one person finds they are always cast at the "loser," and will have no peace until they lose and submit and surrender, they could eventually and understandably become resentful. It doesn't always happen, sometimes both people want the marriage to be all about one of them instead of about both of them. It's important to be sure everyone is on the same page with that kind of thing.
> 
> There are changes that people will ask a spouse AFTER marriage that are unreasonable. Those are easy to point out and recognize as the manipulative demands they are. But when you're talking about changing as in, being considerate, treating EACH OTHER with respect (it has to go both ways, and a pat on the head is not respect), and working together to make each other happy instead of one spouse working to make the other happy while the other generously allows them to dedicate their lives to them, then it's less likely going to work and you're could get statements like "They tried to change me."
> 
> Also, if you see long term relationships as a kind of trap, possibly due to a failed marriage prior, then you're not in a good mental place to marry. It's better to abstain from LTRs that push your unresolved issues on another person.


It's a trap!!!!!


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> It's a trap!!!!!


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> One of the most common marriage problems I see is when the marriage is a competitive relationship rather than a cooperative one. One person has to "lead," has to be the "boss," the "captain." One person has to WIN, no matter the cost. If one person is winning, the other is losing. When over the course of years, one person finds they are always cast at the "loser," and will have no peace until they lose and submit and surrender, they could eventually and understandably become resentful. It doesn't always happen, sometimes both people want the marriage to be all about one of them instead of about both of them. It's important to be sure everyone is on the same page with that kind of thing.
> 
> There are changes that people will ask a spouse AFTER marriage that are unreasonable. Those are easy to point out and recognize as the manipulative demands they are. But when you're talking about changing as in, being considerate, treating EACH OTHER with respect (it has to go both ways, and a pat on the head is not respect), and working together to make each other happy instead of one spouse working to make the other happy while the other generously allows them to dedicate their lives to them, then it's less likely going to work and you're could get statements like "They tried to change me."
> 
> Also, if you see long term relationships as a kind of trap, possibly due to a failed marriage prior, then you're not in a good mental place to marry. It's better to abstain from LTRs that push your unresolved issues on another person.


That's why I require to be addressed as Mr. Boss, protector of the 6 realms.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> That's why I require to be addressed as Mr. Boss, protector of the 6 realms.


I have changed my display name on our TEAMs chat at work. I am now Protector of the Six Realms. 😂


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

CountryMike said:


> The demand this or that never ever works. And shouldn't.





Reluctant Texan said:


> - "_I need to see that you love me enough_"
> Yikes! If you hear things like this, start planning your exit...


Lol yeah I had demands and for this in particular, to show that I love her enough. I guess I was an idiot to stay but love is stupid. Still, ex wanted all five love languages in equal abundance, while I fell short with acts of service and hence the demands for change.

I did my best but the acts of service I provided were seen as expectations and not appreciated. Heck even driving her wherever she wanted was not enough I was expected to show up out of the blue from time to time like what tiktok boyfriends do for their girlfriends 😑

What I also failed in, such as having the initiative to cook and clean, it's not my strong point. After a while I got sick of being made to feel I'm never good enough regardless of all the other 4 love languages I provided.

So what is the solution for the future? Straight out dealbreaker? I know how it turns out now by persisting with tolerating such demands. Yet as folks say it's all about improving oneself and as a couple 🙄


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Lol yeah I had demands and for this in particular, to show that I love her enough. I guess I was an idiot to stay but love is stupid.
> 
> Still, ex wanted all five love languages in equal abundance, while I fell short with acts of service and hence the demands for change. After a while I got sick of being made to feel I'm never good enough.
> 
> So what is the solution for the future? Straight out dealbreaker? I know how it turns out now by persisting with tolerating such demands.


Just don't change. If she gets over it ok, if not such is life.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

CountryMike said:


> Just don't change. If she gets over it ok, if not such is life.


Yeah, I put my foot down and that's how we broke up one year ago. This is kinda my anniversary post, reflecting on what happened exactly one year ago, what can be learnt, what could I have done better.

Also making room for someone else in my life, and this is part of it.


----------



## Reluctant Texan (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Lol yeah I had demands and for this in particular, to show that I love her enough.
> ...


Yeah, that one was always a fun request to try to fulfill, especially because it was always delivered so pleasantly... 

During our 3rd and final attempt at marital counseling, The MC asked my ex-wife what "love me enough" meant in practice, because it seemed she was putting an impossible-to-meet goal out there. 

my ex started arguing with the MC, then screaming at her, and then stormed out and refused to ever go back. 

Then she went on Yelp and google and gave the MC 1-star reviews and left barely-coherent bad comments about her "service" like it was a bad oil change or something.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Yeah, that one was always a fun request to try to fulfill, especially because it was always delivered so pleasantly...
> 
> During our 3rd and final attempt at marital counseling, The MC asked my ex-wife what "love me enough" meant in practice, because it seemed she was putting an impossible-to-meet goal out there.
> 
> ...


Heh probably why my ex rejected my offer for relationship counselling too 😅


----------



## Reluctant Texan (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Heh probably why my ex rejected my offer for relationship counselling too 😅


right. counselors never appreciate how wonderful such partners are, and how lucky we are to have them.


----------



## Dee Peterson (5 mo ago)

No, no, no do not change, a person is with you because they like you, although saying that now I am 54 my hubby is comparing me to women younger and slimmer than me (tho they may not have a brain), he wants me to change but I don’t have a time machine to go back 30 years, the naked women flashing their bits about on his iPad clearly have no morals and I am amazed Facebook allows that, so no, don’t change!


----------



## sunstoner (5 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


Only if its the right partner and the changes needed arent significant and / or changes are made by my partner too to affectively meet in the middle so to speak.

Im obv talking minor changes here otherwise we may as well find other people


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I think the old advice to "be yourself" is often some of the worst advice anyone can get. What if yourself needs work? I think most of us can improve a bit here and there and if our partner inspires us to work on ourselves, that's ok.


----------



## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

I've certainly been far from stagnant as an adult, I've made some rather significant changes in personal growth and development along the way, but all have been internally motivated, not because a partner suggested or requested the change. There have also been partners who have introduced me to various likes of theirs that I have ended up enjoying also, but only as a result of novel exposure and not because the person said "I want you to like X music" or "I want you to eat more X cuisine".

One of my former partners didn't really accept me for who I was and would occasionally shame me for my choices or my tastes. That's why he's a former partner.  

As others have said, minor behavioural adjustments, yes. Fundamental core changes, no.


----------



## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I feel like I’ve had to change over the years. I’ve had to accept that I won’t have the sex life I want and desire. I won’t be living in the part of the country I desire, and it doesn’t matter how I try to parent my kids, I don’t do it well enough. I need to be on TRT but have been hesitant because it will raise my already high libido which she does not care about. 

I’m tired of having to change who I am. I started going to the gym a few months ago. Haven’t toned up yet but I am going to the doctor to look at TRT again, despite what it will do to my libido. I need my energy and mental clarity back. 

Bottom line, I get the need to change negative behaviors. What I don’t agree with is having to change one’s personality because your spouse doesn’t like it.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> How much could you, should you, or do you change for your partner?


Depends on if or what you need to change.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> What I also failed in, such as having the initiative to cook


This caught my eye. From the beginning, Batman knew that cooking wasn't my 'bag'. This is something that he accepts, and he likes and is good at cooking. However, there are moments where it's reasonable that I step-up with contributing to cooking (or at the very least, sourcing) dinner depending on what's occurring with us. And I'm down with that. Yet he does not have the expectation that cooking will become part of the standard package with me. We're 27+ years in.

Sometimes our differences can balance, such as while we're both reasonably assertive people, he is more so than I am. He has lower tolerance when someone is in a position they could be more accountable with/for, while I'm likely more compassionate at times. It's not that I lack assertiveness or that he lacks empathy. More that our 'default settings' are scaled a little differently to one another, through our different life experiences.

When I shared concern about a work meeting that I really didn't want to have, he questioned why I was using language that indicated a slightly powerless stance and not coming from a place of confidence/leverage. I internalized that and switched my mindset to deal with it differently and then approached it from a more grounded (and then more confidently as a result) place. It's what I needed, and it contributed to a healthier outcome for me. On the flip-side, he shared about a friend going through something and whom he was meeting up with about it and asked my opinion of how to approach it - recognizing that how he viewed it may be less empathic than me - and given the circumstance, and in his words, he didn't want to be a **** about it; and so, I gave my view which stemmed from a more compassionate place than his, yet discussed together a way that was still _congruent_ with who he essentially is. I guess what I'm trying to convey is that encouragement with good intentions for the other can bring insights to ourselves, and in small ways, influence small changes if we value that; as such, I was perhaps more assertive when I needed to be, and he was perhaps more understanding when he needed to be. It didn't mean who we fundamentally are changed in those scenarios.

To consider a different and hypothetical approach to the above, he could have just listened to my thoughts/feelings about the work meeting, given me a pat on the back, without challenging my thoughts or offering a different and constructive view. Perhaps one could say that I accept (and highly appreciate) that he's not that way. Or what if I was defensive and didn't want to hear what he had to offer. Or whatever else that could have occurred in that example. Granted, it's not to suggest that we agree with each other's take all the time though. However, I do feel that we both value the 'fast feedback loop' one another can offer, and endeavor to have each other's back, in addition to other forms of feedback that life provides.


----------



## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Romantic relationships at their heart are really business relationships. Whether you should change or not comes down to how much you want the other person and if it's a price you're willing to pay. 

Example, I went to the movies today and they had jacked the price of a medium popcorn up to $11. Movie theater popcorn is yummy but not 11 dollars yummy. That's just absurd. I'm not making that change. The woman that was sitting next to me however, a work of art like that is worth quite a bit. 🤑


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Here's a very minor scenario where Batman and I had different views and I didn't agree with his stance - for me. I took him to a specialist whiskey bar. I don't drink whiskey. Upon entering, I said to the bartender something along the lines of, 'Given that you're a whiskey bar, I don't mean to be rude but do you have other drink options?' (inferring non-whiskey). They did, and bartender showed me where the alternative beverages were listed on their menu. Batman, however, wondered why I felt the need to ask in that way (the 'I don't mean to be rude' part) rather than being direct. I explained that I view it as a social grace, especially given the challenges that businesses face with the pandemic and that I think there's more of a sway to being a good customer as part of that, plus I didn't want to be obnoxious given it was a specialist whiskey bar. He felt differently to a degree, in that he felt it would be fine to just ask what other beverages they offer and so what if they took it a certain way. Note, this wasn't an argument; just an exchange. Some of this comes down to different personality traits and likely some cultural influences too. Anyway, I didn't see anything wrong with his take - for him; yet simultaneously, expressed that the way that I asked is who and how I am sometimes and am good with that - for me. End of.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> This caught my eye. From the beginning, Batman knew that cooking wasn't my 'bag'. This is something that he accepts, and he likes and is good at cooking. However, there are moments where it's reasonable that I step-up with contributing to cooking (or at the very least, sourcing) dinner depending on what's occurring with us. And I'm down with that. Yet he does not have the expectation that cooking will become part of the standard package with me. We're 27+ years in.
> 
> Sometimes our differences can balance, such as while we're both reasonably assertive people, he is more so than I am. He has lower tolerance when someone is in a position they could be more accountable with/for, while I'm likely more compassionate at times. It's not that I lack assertiveness or that he lacks empathy. More that our 'default settings' are scaled a little differently to one another, through our different life experiences.


That's the funny thing too, at the start she was happy to cook and she knew I didn't like cooking. Four years later because I didn't cook for her I didn't love her enough. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> That's the funny thing too, at the start she was happy to cook and she knew I didn't like cooking. Four years later because I didn't cook for her I didn't love her enough. 🤷‍♂️


Okay, reading this I realized that I'd unfairly and unintentionally glossed over something. Years back, while I learned that cooking can demonstrate love, he also learned that my lack of cooking did not equate to lack of love for him. Navigating this stuff together can take time to figure out. No doubt you're aware that enduring and reasonably healthy dynamics of a relationship are years in the making and often typically continually evolving, through various life events, and even with small and daily micro-decisions.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dee Peterson said:


> No, no, no do not change, a person is with you because they like you, although saying that now I am 54 my hubby is comparing me to women younger and slimmer than me (tho they may not have a brain), he wants me to change but I don’t have a time machine to go back 30 years, the naked women flashing their bits about on his iPad clearly have no morals and I am amazed Facebook allows that, so no, don’t change!


I don't get why men like that marry at all. Even those women will look different in 5 years. No one can be expected to stay young forever and yet, that is what is required.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> Okay, reading this I realized that I'd unfairly and unintentionally glossed over something. Years back, while I learned that cooking can demonstrate love, he also learned that my lack of cooking did not equate to lack of love for him. Navigating this stuff together can take time to figure out. No doubt you're aware that enduring and reasonably healthy dynamics of a relationship are years in the making and often typically continually evolving, through various life events, and even with small and daily micro-decisions.


Some things should be dealbreakers, been reflecting on recent dates as well, especially the ones with opposite love languages.

Would I be content with someone who has to put in effort to touch and doesn't touch naturally? Doesn't initiate touch and only touches to make me happy? If touch was perhaps a mid tier love language I guess I can be content with that, but it's not. It's my *primary*. I need genuine desire and natural cuddles if my love is to persist.

Similarly, as I'm not going to be a man who will cook and clean and shower my ex naturally with acts of service without any prompting from her (as I have no initiative or desire with these things), I'll never be able to forfill this expectation of hers, nor other women.

As much as we can improve, make compromises, some things are innate, like desire. Even if my partner was willing to put in the effort for my *primary* love languages I don't think it's enough, that's one of the final discussions I had with that air hostess lady too.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Sure, we can make changes to accommodate our partner but when it is demanded how are we to feel accepted by our partners as flawed human beings?
> 
> I feel I have the right to ask for change but if I love someone what right do I have to demand and expect it? Some things are just difficult to change, like ex and her nagging or me shutting down emotionally during our fights she always instigated.



Demands for change are problematic. 

Requests for changes should be listened to & accommodated within reason. the stuff you mention -- nagging & shutting down emotionally -- are of course hard to change & probably won't happen without professional intervention but they can be prevented if you alter your approach. If your SO asks you to do something just say no or give a time when it will be done to prevent the nagging. When you see your partner starting to shut down emotionally back off, rather than continuing down whatever path is upsetting them. 

It's a trivial example but I like cards for occasions & expect them a certain way: the date, Dear D0nni, Love DH etc. When we 1st got together DH would only sign his name. Made me crazy. So I asked him to alter his behavior & write the card the way I wanted. He thought my request was dumb but he complied because it really wasn't that much extra effort on his part & he enjoyed the happy response he got from me. 

You have to look at the issue from both sides to find the solution.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

D0nnivain said:


> Demands for change are problematic.
> 
> Requests for changes should be listened to & accommodated within reason. the stuff you mention -- nagging & shutting down emotionally -- are of course hard to change & probably won't happen without professional intervention but they can be prevented if you alter your approach. If your SO asks you to do something just say no or give a time when it will be done to prevent the nagging. When you see your partner starting to shut down emotionally back off, rather than continuing down whatever path is upsetting them.
> 
> ...


Actually immediate requests I did them, ex would nag out of the blue and complain that I'm not loving her enough and that I was not as loving as some boyfriends on tiktok 🙄 

The emotional shutdowns is my flaw and it wasn't until I broke up folks mentioned something about being dismissive avoidant. Looking back, I was very vulnerable with her but yes I shutdown emotionally when we had fights and she was not patient enough to wait for me to thaw by myself.

The nagging was a symptom, in the end she just wanted more love that I could give and I fail when it comes to acts of service as it's not an innate desire of mine to show love that way.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Actually immediate requests I did them, ex would nag out of the blue and complain that I'm not loving her enough and that I was not as loving as some boyfriends on tiktok 🙄
> 
> The emotional shutdowns is my flaw and it wasn't until I broke up folks mentioned something about being dismissive avoidant. Looking back, I was very vulnerable with her but yes I shutdown emotionally when we had fights and she was not patient enough to wait for me to thaw by myself.
> 
> The nagging was a symptom, in the end she just wanted more love that I could give and I fail when it comes to acts of service as it's not an innate desire of mine to show love that way.


Part of your problem is you are still here obsessing over what some ex wanted from you how long ago now? You gotta move on from this stuff, man. What some ex wanted from you is irrelevant. What matters is you guys obviously weren't right for each other and it ended...that's it. You drop that baggage and walk away from it. You find someone that you just fit with and things aren't so damn complicated that you're over there worried about love languages and crap. A grown man talking about how much he needs cuddles is kinda sad bro.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Part of your problem is you are still here obsessing over what some ex wanted from you how long ago now? You gotta move on from this stuff, man. What some ex wanted from you is irrelevant. What matters is you guys obviously weren't right for each other and it ended...that's it. You drop that baggage and walk away from it. You find someone that you just fit with and things aren't so damn complicated that you're over there worried about love languages and crap.


What are you talking about?

I'm giving examples to elaborate on the topic, what other examples am I supposed to use? My other exs?
The whole change vs acceptance debate makes me curious, not my ex.



> A grown man talking about how much he needs cuddles is kinda sad bro.


Well yeah why would I would want a woman adverse to touch?


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> I'm giving examples to elaborate on the topic, what other examples am I supposed to use? My other exs?
> The whole change vs acceptance debate makes me curious, not my ex.
> ...


Maybe I am wrong but whenever you post, it just seems like you're carrying a lot of crap with you from your ex. You've met so many people and you seem to go back to her in your head a lot.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Maybe I am wrong but whenever you post, it just seems like you're carrying a lot of crap with you from your ex. You've met so many people and you seem to go back to her in your head a lot.


Right now I just want to process things and learn what I have to learn from my mistakes, move on and be ready for the next opportunity.
I want to decide what I will and will not tolerate as well as what type of man I want myself to be and how much I am willing or capable to bend to make another person happy.

The beginning of this thread seems to strongly favor being oneself but now I hear all the stuff about changing while "being a better person" is subjective.


----------



## Dee Peterson (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don't get why men like that marry at all. Even those women will look different in 5 years. No one can be expected to stay young forever and yet, that is what is required.


Also, men get older too, also fatter and grumpy with it but of course they forget that when tryna change their wife into some kind of dumb barbie doll!


----------



## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

So I realize that I've been doing nothing but *****ing and complaining on here about how horrible my husband is - a woman suggested to me that I read this book called The Empowered Wife and I kid you not - this woman may be on to something. All I know is that if we want them to change, we need to change things up as well. Instead of nagging him as I have been (he says that I don't nag but I still remind him of his short comings - like drinking too much) - I have been doing simple things. Like actually asking him for help instead of just doing everything because he doesn't do it and the house has been happy. For instance - the other day I was running late to get home because I had an appointment and had to stop for dinner on the way - so I asked him to simply put the dishes away. He said yes, and then cleaned the kitchen. I came home to a smile on his face. Then when I showered before bed, he put the food away from dinner and packed me a lunch with the leftovers. Yesterday, I sat and laughed at his stupid dad jokes and flirted playfully and he smiled all night and came after me for sex. So yes - if you want to see change, start seeing it within yourself first. He is also scheduling an appointment with a doctor to get detox set up for his drinking dependency.


----------



## Layla35 (Feb 14, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I guess that depends upon how much are you committed to your marriage? How much do you love your wife?
> 
> I would change myself in many ways to be a better husband, a better human being, a better lover, and a better partner. I would not change my morals, ethics, or honesty. I would not change my commitment to marriage or my wedding vows.
> 
> ...


As you should , i agree that anyone who have toxic negative behaviors should want to be better for themselves. To remain toxic and draining energy from everyone around them including a spouse smh Change is very necessary !!!


----------

