# How do you move forward when you still doubt?



## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm stuck. I'm pretty sure my husband is still withholding info from me. He's just not budging and we're five months into his confession of a ONS that happened nine years ago. He blames this on my HPV I had a few years back instead of the EA he had that also ended three years ago. I know, I know... He just is so adament he has now come clean since telling me about the ONS, which given what he told me doesn't really jive with the HPV, either (oral sex). Anyway, I've threatened the polygragh, he's reading books for me, going to counseling, telling me he's sorry, loves me, being more affectionate... That's all great, but how do you move forward when you have nagging doubts? I feel confident he has matured and is a different person than he was before, last few years had been nice - until the $&@! hit the fan. He defintely acknowledges he took me for granted and is trying to be more romantic again. I guess my question is how do you give in and enjoy an attempt to rekindle the relationship when you know and/or feel not everything has been told? I don't know if he's scared to come completely clean or what... MC and IC said I may never know the full truth, this eats at me. Why is he so adament?!? And even if there's a small chance he has come clean (HA!), do you always doubt and worry? He gets angry when I question him cause he says he's told me the truth now and says he's frustrated at this point. I think he gets angry cause he knows he's still guilty?
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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow 9 years ago? What made him confess?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I can only give you the perspective from my marriage. My wife had her affair 20 years ago. We went through the entire R process yet I still question her sometimes about certain things. A few years ago we were talking about something that had to do with her affair and she said something that I felt conflicted with what she had said before. We went around and around for a bit until she finally simply said that it had been so long ago and she had tried so hard to forget that she honestly couldn't remember the details. I was a little pissed off as you well might imagine but eventually I realized that I had to *choose* to believe her. After all her actions for the last 20 years has shown that she is committed to me and to us. Sometimes you just have to make a decision to believe or not.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Wow 9 years ago? What made him confess?


I knew he had gotten too close to a coworker and I tested positive to HPV around that same time. I begged him for several years to confess to an affair, but he kept telling me it wasn't romantic or physical in nature, more she was his best friend at work. Finally after years of worrying about her and a made up kiss story with a stranger out of town I threatened him with a polygragh. He broke down after some bluffing and told me one night it had to have come from a drunken blowjob he got out of town after a work party, there was never any kissing. He then left the house, only to text me later how he never wanted to hurt me or the kids. I told him to come home, but after a few weeks I started questioning the confession. He has been holding onto this confession for five INTENSE months now.
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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

Thanks Beowulf. I guess it's like this - he's not gonna come completely clean, maybe for fear it would end all chances? He claims that is why he never told me, cause it was a bad mistake and he didn't want our marriage to end. I do believe he's committed to our marriage and our family now. I do believe he wants to be in love again, what I don't believe is the past. This is old stuff we're dealing with, it makes it all very difficult. Do I leave him for old mistakes, ignore the past few years that were good? It's almost like he had a mid life crisis? We married very young. I dunno, I'm pretty sure he had intercourse with someone at some point - either the ONS or the "friendship". I just can't seem to accept I'll never know the truth. Counseling only frustrates me more... They say what would I do if I knew more? It's in the past, this is very hard.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Wow 9 years ago? What made him confess?


And yes, the last nine years now feel like lies. 
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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Thanks Beowulf. I guess it's like this - he's not gonna come completely clean, maybe for fear it would end all chances? He claims that is why he never told me, cause it was a bad mistake and he didn't want our marriage to end. I do believe he's committed to our marriage and our family now. I do believe he wants to be in love again, what I don't believe is the past. This is old stuff we're dealing with, it makes it all very difficult. Do I leave him for old mistakes, ignore the past few years that were good? It's almost like he had a mid life crisis? We married very young. I dunno, I'm pretty sure he had intercourse with someone at some point - either the ONS or the "friendship". I just can't seem to accept I'll never know the truth. Counseling only frustrates me more... They say what would I do if I knew more? It's in the past, this is very hard.


I completely understand what you are feeling. My wife came clean and answered every question as many times as I wanted to ask. But it was all fresh in her mind then. Maybe your husband is foggy on the details or maybe he feels that the more it's talked about the harder it will be to reconcile. In regards to how much detail you want to know everyone is different. I wanted to know everything. Some BS here don't want too many details. It's up to you what you want to know and how much glossing over you will tolerate.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

Well, the blowjob has been very difficult to deal with. Yet, it eats at me wanting to know the full truth. I want to know what was going on in our marriage even though I know it might kill me. Sick, I know. Like if he was with his coworker it would destroy me, yet I want to know what he did to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if he told me it was only a blowjob and when he saw my reaction he knew he couldn't tell me more?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Well, the blowjob has been very difficult to deal with. Yet, it eats at me wanting to know the full truth. I want to know what was going on in our marriage even though I know it might kill me. Sick, I know. Like if he was with his coworker it would destroy me, yet I want to know what he did to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if he told me it was only a blowjob and when he saw my reaction he knew he couldn't tell me more?


You are in a different situation than most because from what you say he's done everything right in order to reconcile with you. Hypothetically speaking, if he told you more and it was a lot worse than he has admitted would you stay with him? He may think that his actions speak louder than words. If you agree that he has done everything necessary maybe you can offer him amnesty if he tells you the entire truth. Example, say in front of a MC that regardless of what he says you know he is a good man, has done and continues to do all that is required and you will continue to work on the marriage. Give him one opportunity to come completely clean and say that if you ever find out more than he's admitted to you will end the marriage on the spot.

On the other hand if he tells you something that you know will cause you to end the marriage here and now you know why he isn't coming clean. It's your choice on how you handle it.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Stuck - yea I know the feeling.

My WS says she remembers 4 times having sex with the OM and the the fifth time they were going to have sex I busted them by calling her on the phone. My son and I were tracking her by this time. I know for a fact that she was with him 7 times. I know the times, dates, locations, etc. I can give her all the details of what she did prior and what she did afterwards to meeting up with the OM. It is like I was freaken there. I have made it clear that I want her to remember and yet I get the I don't remember, I want to forget it, it is all becoming a fog, etc from her. She claims that she was never with him past 9:00 P.M. (since he had to go to work early in the morning) yet I know for a fact that she once dropped him off at 10:45 P.M. and one other time at 10:30 P.M. I showed her some of my information. Yet she still states she does not remember being out that late. She says she knows that this is important to me but she claims to not remember and she says she will not lie about it. She knows if she lies I will go nuts.

It makes no sense to me that she does not remember. What she has told me I have been able to verify. It just drives me nuts that she does not remember two of the times and the late nights. Perhaps she does want to put it in the past and wants to forget the whole thing. She says she feels like a piece of **** for doing what she did and wants to move forward.

Me - I want to get everything out in the open so I can move forward.

At least my WS will talk to me just about anytime I want to talk to her about it and I let her know my frustration with her not remembering some of the dates and times.

Honestly, she has nothing to lose if she tells me everything, but she has everything to lose if I find out she lied to me or held stuff back. My WS has had some memory issues over the years, but over time the memories come back to her. I told her that she needs to work on remembering this stuff if she really wants to help me move forward.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

Ya, I've tried that. I'm at my wits end. I told him now is the time to come clean while we're down. I told him if I work thru this and something comes out later it will be the end of our marriage. He still didn't budge. Just said he understood that and there was nothing left to come out. He is trying, just nothing adds up. I think at this point he's just too afraid. I mean, he kept the ONS from me for NINE years!!! We saw The Vow this weekend. It upset him and he had to walk out. I asked him later about it and he said it was overwhelming, that he knew I'd never think of him as my knight in shining armor ever again. Sad thing is, he's right.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Stuck - yea I know the feeling.
> 
> My WS says she remembers 4 times having sex with the OM and the the fifth time they were going to have sex I busted them by calling her on the phone. My son and I were tracking her by this time. I know for a fact that she was with him 7 times. I know the times, dates, locations, etc. I can give her all the details of what she did prior and what she did afterwards to meeting up with the OM. It is like I was freaken there. I have made it clear that I want her to remember and yet I get the I don't remember, I want to forget it, it is all becoming a fog, etc from her. She claims that she was never with him past 9:00 P.M. (since he had to go to work early in the morning) yet I know for a fact that she once dropped him off at 10:45 P.M. and one other time at 10:30 P.M. I showed her some of my information. Yet she still states she does not remember being out that late. She says she knows that this is important to me but she claims to not remember and she says she will not lie about it. She knows if she lies I will go nuts.
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like she is repressing some memories. It may be that she doesn't want admit to anything more than she already has but it also may be that there are certain memories that her mind has blocked out for one reason or another. An affair is a huge traumatic event for everyone. Trauma can cause the mind to repress certain memories. Does she have abuse issues in the past? Many abuse survivors have learned to block memories rather well without them even knowing they're doing it. Blocking memories gets easier for the mind the more times it is done. She may need IC in order to find out why she is repressing memories if that is indeed what is happening.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Repression of memories could be the reason. No abuse in her past. Her IC told her that I am out of line for asking her about these dates. Her IC might be correct but I told my WS that I could care less about what anyones says, that I want her to remember and that is something I need.

I have reached a point that I do understand that she is suffering as well. But her IC seems like she will not go there as far as the memories are concerned.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

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I agree Thorburn. I have to know the truth. I don't know how to move forward with these nagging doubts. It sucks, doesn't it? Total limbo...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Repression of memories could be the reason. No abuse in her past. Her IC told her that I am out of line for asking her about these dates. Her IC might be correct but I told my WS that I could care less about what anyones says, that I want her to remember and that is something I need.
> 
> I have reached a point that I do understand that she is suffering as well. But her IC seems like she will not go there as far as the memories are concerned.


It sounds like you have to decide what is more important to you. Her remembering the details that seems to be holding you back or going forward with the reconciliation. I know IC is private but does she tell you what she has been working on during her sessions?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I agree Thorburn. I have to know the truth. I don't know how to move forward with these nagging doubts. It sucks, doesn't it? Total limbo...


Like my WS's brother told me last week. It makes you wonder if there is more and if it was worsse than what she told me. Her brother told me to confront his sister and say, Don't you know what this is doing to me? That is makes me think there is more. I did. She gets it, but insists that she can't remember.

Funny, how her brothers are so insightful and helpful to me.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Like my WS's brother told me last week. It makes you wonder if there is more and if it was worsse than what she told me. Her brother told me to confront his sister and say, Don't you know what this is doing to me? That is makes me think there is more. I did. She gets it, but insists that she can't remember.
> 
> Funny, how her brothers are so insightful and helpful to me.


What about a polygraph? Have you asked her for one? Are you guys going to MC together? Can the issue be brought up there? If you think she is purposefully holding back information and you feel this is going to sabotage your R maybe you have to tell her that you are going to pursue a divorce because you still are finding it impossible to trust her. If she is avoiding telling you because she thinks you'll leave maybe you should convey to her that you already are leaving unless you get it all.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> What about a polygraph? Have you asked her for one? Are you guys going to MC together? Can the issue be brought up there? If you think she is purposefully holding back information and you feel this is going to sabotage your R maybe you have to tell her that you are going to pursue a divorce because you still are finding it impossible to trust her. If she is avoiding telling you because she thinks you'll leave maybe you should convey to her that you already are leaving unless you get it all.


All last week I was dealing with the death of my father. I was home from Wed. till Sunday. We had the funeral on Saturday and I just tried to focus on that. Yesterday I told my WS that I needed to talk about the A and she said OK. We talked for a long time. She asked me if I was still thinking of divorce. I said, if you continue to do what you are doing then no. I gave her a list of all the positive things she is doing. I then said, I will follow through with divorce "if", and I gave her a list of things that would cause me to divorce her. One of them was, if I find out that you were holding back information that I have asked about and you did not tell me. I told her that I am frustrated with her memory issues. Everything she has told me I have been able to verify as the truth with a few exceptions and I doubt that I will ever be able to verify those and they are not show stoppers.

I have not started MC yet. I am waiting for about another month or so. I know a good one and want her to have a few more IC's before we start MC.

The polygraph. If I do it I will not tell her about it until I take her. There is a very good polygraph guy about 2 hours away, so I have looked into it. Frankly, I do not know what I should ask.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> All last week I was dealing with the death of my father. I was home from Wed. till Sunday. We had the funeral on Saturday and I just tried to focus on that. Yesterday I told my WS that I needed to talk about the A and she said OK. We talked for a long time. She asked me if I was still thinking of divorce. I said, if you continue to do what you are doing then no. I gave her a list of all the positive things she is doing. I then said, I will follow through with divorce "if", and I gave her a list of things that would cause me to divorce her. One of them was, if I find out that you were holding back information that I have asked about and you did not tell me. I told her that I am frustrated with her memory issues. Everything she has told me I have been able to verify as the truth with a few exceptions and I doubt that I will ever be able to verify those and they are not show stoppers.
> 
> I have not started MC yet. I am waiting for about another month or so. I know a good one and want her to have a few more IC's before we start MC.
> 
> The polygraph. If I do it I will not tell her about it until I take her. There is a very good polygraph guy about 2 hours away, so I have looked into it. Frankly, I do not know what I should ask.


It seems that you already have concrete evidence of a couple of instances of misinformation. I would ask about those. I would also ask if she has been completely honest and open about all aspects of her affair. I'm sure the guy that administers the polygraphs can advise you what types of questions to ask. He will certainly know what questions will pin down answers. This might be the best way for you to get closure once and for all. Make the appointment, take her there and before you go in give her one last chance to come completely clean. Oftentimes the person will see this as their last chance to tell the truth. Just make sure you are mentally prepared for what she might admit.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

I tried the polygragh tactic. He bluffed and acted all big about taking it, even helping me look up ones. Then the night before I called to schedule it he confessed to the blowjob on the business trip. I now seriously think this was his way of getting out the polygragh. He knew it was big and he thought that would suffice for me. Now here he is saying he wants to take one to prove he's really come clean. I think he's bluffing again. Now money is tight, he knows we have to wait. Plus, he's now on antidepressants and anxiety meds - all which are ways to beat the test. Sooo, I'm not so sure about the polygragh anymore. Why do they do this to us?!? Ruin our lives for an orgasm with some stranger?!?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I tried the polygragh tactic. He bluffed and acted all big about taking it, even helping me look up ones. Then the night before I called to schedule it he confessed to the blowjob on the business trip. I now seriously think this was his way of getting out the polygragh. He knew it was big and he thought that would suffice for me. Now here he is saying he wants to take one to prove he's really come clean. I think he's bluffing again. Now money is tight, he knows we have to wait. Plus, he's now on antidepressants and anxiety meds - all which are ways to beat the test. Sooo, I'm not so sure about the polygragh anymore. Why do they do this to us?!? Ruin our lives for an orgasm with some stranger?!?


Cheating comes down to selfishness and laziness. Selfishness because the cheater puts his/her own gratification above everything else. Laziness because if they put the affair energy into the marriage there would never be an affair. Why the WS has the affair is not really in question when you really get down to it. Why we choose to stay with them is. If my R had not gone the way it did I would not have stayed with her 20 years ago.

Your threat of a polygraph did get you some more information. It's too bad you didn't press on anyway once you knew there was more to the story. I think if it's still bothering you a polygraph might pry loose more info if there is indeed more. That's why I suggested it to Thorburn. Waywards tend to come clean when they think they're about to be discovered.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I have been there, guys.

I tend to agree with Beowulf. If you can break your WS, it is possible.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I tried the polygragh tactic. He bluffed and acted all big about taking it, even helping me look up ones. Then the night before I called to schedule it he confessed to the blowjob on the business trip. I now seriously think this was his way of getting out the polygragh. He knew it was big and he thought that would suffice for me. Now here he is saying he wants to take one to prove he's really come clean. I think he's bluffing again. Now money is tight, he knows we have to wait. Plus, he's now on antidepressants and anxiety meds - all which are ways to beat the test. Sooo, I'm not so sure about the polygragh anymore. Why do they do this to us?!? Ruin our lives for an orgasm with some stranger?!?


He is bluffing again. He's showing a huge lack of concern for your healing.


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