# Relationship material



## RandomDude

Seriously my entire history of experiences with women has been just tons of sex, few pockets of love in between and that's it. To the point that one past FWB (Friend with benefits) told me that I'm the type of guy that she likes to fk but never get involved in. In other words, I was nothing to her but a sausage (which at that time I was happy with). But what she said now haunts me as I return to the dating scene from marriage. Another even mentioned that I was "bf material" and not "husband material" based on her first impressions of me -.-

There's definitely something about me which is off, but I haven't found any answers. The only consistent response from women is that I apparently give off the vibe of a player which initially makes women back off. They never said anything was wrong with me, just who I am - the fk was that supposed to mean? 

So ok, I started showing a little vulnerability here and there, but in the end, still nothing but a sausage. I still remember that one singles event that I attended and EVERY WOMAN believed I was a player (I blame the gossipers - but I find it disturbing that they all agreed without even getting to know me!!!!)

My ex never judged me in this way, confident from the get go that she could handle me (and she was right - I just couldn't handle her!). Yet, in the end, I was nothing but a sausage (and wallet) - but she certainly loved the sausage enough to marry the man behind it at one point!

Anyway, I'm with an FWB now so I'm still nothing but a sausage. After enough disappointments in dating I've succumbed to my fate. Is it time to acknowledge that I'm just not relationship material? Sure emotional attachments can still occur, evidently from a recent FB (fkbuddy) who I had to leave behind as I couldn't give her what she wanted - and from my perspective her "love" was merely an illusion/cloud as it happens from time to time in casual relationships.


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## NextTimeAround

If I deemed someone not relationship material, it may be because

1) They don't appear to be completely over their ex.
2) They carry on inappropriate relationships with other people, either male or female.
3) Their relationship with their child(ren) does not appear to be properly stabilised. I don't want to be anyone's scapegoat.
4)They are not financially stable.
5) They don't appear to have a life of their own that they are currently satisfied with. 
6) They somehow communicate, either verbally or nonverbally, that marriage is not an option.

RandomDude, do you think that you might be communicating one or more of the above.

Maybe someone else has a few ideas.


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## Maneo

Do you have any meaningful relationships with any women that does not involve sex? Not counting mom and sisters and aunts and grandma.


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## MachoMcCoy

Wanna' trade lives?


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## RandomDude

Maneo said:


> Do you have any meaningful relationships with any women that does not involve sex? Not counting mom and sisters and aunts and grandma.


Of course, and their answers are even worse! Their answer is mostly: "I have no idea!" 

But it has to be a conspiracy right? They just don't wanna tell me for some mysterious reason!



NextTimeAround said:


> If I deemed someone not relationship material, it may be because
> 
> 1) They don't appear to be completely over their ex.
> 2) They carry on inappropriate relationships with other people, either male or female.
> 3) Their relationship with their child(ren) does not appear to be properly stabilised. I don't want to be anyone's scapegoat.
> 4)They are not financially stable.
> 5) They don't appear to have a life of their own that they are currently satisfied with.
> 6) They somehow communicate, either verbally or nonverbally, that marriage is not an option.
> 
> RandomDude, do you think that you might be communicating one or more of the above.
> 
> Maybe someone else has a few ideas.


Ah, exactly what I was looking for, in fact, if a whole list can be formed by the end of the thread I'm bound to find some answers to my little dilemma. I need to know what I have to fix, but first - process of elimination! So far (from my perspective):

1) Possible: Most definitely happened a few times over the course of my life. However, I never show it (in real life that is), so I wonder how you women can still tell?

2) Unsure: Most definitely one of the reasons in the past as my friends at that time were pretty messed up, however I've not encountered any problems between my recent dates and my current social circle.

3) Unlikely: I've had this problem since before my daughter was born. So this can't be it.

4) Likely: Prior to marriage I had nothing but a part-time job, however I was fully independent and always paid my own. Still this is likely to have been the reason behind some of them. At present I do misdirect and omit my finances to portray an average middle class man. I also remain uneducated to this day.

5) Unsure: Likely in the past, throughout my youth I had very little sense of direction (it only came when my daughter was born). 

6) Unsure: Now THIS could very well be the reason behind my past FWB saying that - doesn't explain the others however.

Now the vibe I give off seems to happen within the first few minutes from introduction, based on how every woman at that singles event judged me as a player - and I didn't even have time to talk to them all!


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## RandomDude

MachoMcCoy said:


> Wanna' trade lives?


=|


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## Mr.Fisty

How is your communication skills, are you a stable person, do you know what your needs are, can you compromise, do you have healthy coping skills, are you empathetic, do you form strong boundaries, can you listen and digest the information, can you meet someone's else emotional and physical needs?


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## As'laDain

ever think about saying to hell with the dating scene?

i know if i ever get divorced, im not dating. im going with a mail order bride. 
and this is why: they only fail about 20% of the time. and there some pretty hot russian chiks... lol, i wouldnt mind learning russian.


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## happy as a clam

RandomDude said:


> There's definitely something about me which is off, but I haven't found any answers. The only consistent response from women is that I apparently give off the vibe of a player which initially makes women back off.


RD,

I've read many of your threads; you have quite a library of them over the years 

These questions may sound shallow, but just go with me here. We all have about 30 seconds to make a FIRST impression... It's hard to answer your question without having some kind of "visual" as to how you present yourself.

I realize these sound somewhat superficial, but you have said women think you are a player almost instantly upon meeting you. So you have to look at the image/demeanor/personality you are projecting. Forget the deep, introspective stuff for a moment; let's just start with the basics.

1) Looks? Are you dazzlingly handsome, rugged good looks or average? 
Height - Tall/average/short? 
Frame - Muscular/average build? Stocky or lean?

2) Hair? Slicked back with gel? Short and tight cut? Balding? Long?

3) Attire? Casual? Flashy? Jeans/boots or dress slacks with loafers? Jewelry or no jewelry?

4) Demeanor? Introverted or extroverted? Loud or quiet? Always ready with a smooth line when you meet someone, or reserved? Life of the party or quiet bystander? Do you "own" the room when you arrive, or are you just looking for a comfortable place from which to observe everyone?

5) Do you "talk" with your eyes? Non-verbal communication? In other words, were you making overly-long eye contact (perhaps suggestive) with women across the room, even the ones you never had a chance to talk to you? Or were you just scanning the room to see who you might like to talk to?

6) Do you touch people when you first meet them? (Besides a handshake) Touch their arm? Their elbow?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Do you stick mainly with a specific type of woman (age, income, look, etc) 
Different women will be looking for different things and what I wanted 10 years ago is much different than what I'd want now.

If I met a man now who had a couple young, hot FWB I might assume he was not relationship material because I would worry he couldn't settle down and was only looking for sex. Also if I saw a man only going after the '10' kind of women or just superficial qualities I might get that player vibe too.


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## Deejo

We say it all of the time around here Dude ...

"We teach people how to treat us."

You're guarded, streetwise, confident, independent, own your own business.

You follow your own rules, and quite frankly you've been around the block. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

But ... as the guy who has consistently pursued FWB relationships and patently only pursues HB 9's and 10's.

what exactly is it about you that YOU think makes you LTR material for a woman?

Faithful Wife has written about the concept of 'sexual radar' in the past. I do absolutely believe that people give off a vibe. 

Don't know you from a hole in the wall, but I'd bet you give off a lot more of an overtly aloof and sexual vibe than you do, a committed partner who is going sprinkle the bed with rose petals, put chocolate on her pillow, and wake her up with breakfast in bed that you made just for her ...

I actually have this ... 'issue', but I'm ok with it. And I AM the guy that does the rose petals and breakfast thing.
My relationships post divorce have been exciting fireworks filled sprints, rather than scenic marathons. I am more fun filled exciting distraction than settled in, long term commitment. I haven't had a relationship last more than 6 months since my marriage ending back in 08. 

Am trying to change that right now as I respond to you. But I also recognize it means changing one's own expectations.

If a 'relationship' is what you are looking for, than you probably need to be willing to cut loose anything that doesn't fit that description.

Having a couple of FWB's on the line while you're waiting for Ms. Right to show up in the picture doesn't exactly scream "I'm a one woman man."

Decide who you want to be ... you decide, the women don't.


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## SimplyAmorous

Random Dude... why this question.. are you now wanting to be "relationship material"? I have caught a # of your posts over the last year or 2 after your last attempt trying to win your ex back.. but it seemed she was DONE....

It just seems to me you have resolved the fact YOU NEVER WANTED TO be emotionally involved again, it was a pure "FVCK it" attitude and any women who even dared show the least bit of interest beyond what a sausage can do... SHE WOULD BE HISTORY...

This is what I got from your posts.. what has changed.. you are getting tired of this lifestyle ?? 

So you started to have feelings for a FB but pushed her away ?


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## lifeistooshort

Deejo said:


> We say it all of the time around here Dude ...
> 
> "We teach people how to treat us."
> 
> You're guarded, streetwise, confident, independent, own your own business.
> 
> You follow your own rules, and quite frankly you've been around the block. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
> 
> *But ... as the guy who has consistently pursued FWB relationships and patently only pursues HB 9's and 10's.
> 
> what exactly is it about you that YOU think makes you LTR material for a woman?*
> 
> Faithful Wife has written about the concept of 'sexual radar' in the past. I do absolutely believe that people give off a vibe.
> 
> Don't know you from a hole in the wall, but I'd bet you give off a lot more of an overtly aloof and sexual vibe than you do, a committed partner who is going sprinkle the bed with rose petals, put chocolate on her pillow, and wake her up with breakfast in bed that you made just for her ...
> 
> I actually have this ... 'issue', but I'm ok with it. And I AM the guy that does the rose petals and breakfast thing.
> My relationships post divorce have been exciting fireworks filled sprints, rather than scenic marathons. I am more fun filled exciting distraction than settled in, long term commitment. I haven't had a relationship last more than 6 months since my marriage ending back in 08.
> 
> Am trying to change that right now as I respond to you. But I also recognize it means changing one's own expectations.
> 
> If a 'relationship' is what you are looking for, than you probably need to be willing to cut loose anything that doesn't fit that description.
> 
> *Having a couple of FWB's on the line while you're waiting for Ms. Right to show up in the picture doesn't exactly scream "I'm a one woman man."*
> 
> Decide who you want to be ... you decide, the women don't.


Please consider the bolded quote above. If this is true you're engaging in an age old double standard.....that you should be able to pick women based on shallow criteria but they shouldn't use shallow criteria to judge you.

And if I met a guy that was screwing a few women to pass the time I'd head in the other direction. This reeks of someone that's always looking elsewhere and will likely not be satisfied with just me. And that he probably has a lot of baggage. I'm not interested in dealing with a guy that has a long line of FWB's. If that's all sex is to you what that means to me is that I"ll be ms. right now and I'm not interested in that.


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## PBear

How many of these women have you been truly open and exposed to? Perhaps they can tell you have areas of your life that you're hiding from them, which leads them to believe it's just about the sex? 

C


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## samyeagar

So is the general consensus here boiled down to "You reap what you sow"?


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## Faithful Wife

My vibe from you is that you are emotionally stunted and unable to make a true connection with people.


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## FrenchFry

Nothing about how you post screams "guy who is ready to be in a healthy long term relationship." Any healthy woman looking for an LTR can sense that immediately.

I don't think you need to be resigned to your fate but if you sincerely don't see what it is you can work on to not give off that vibe then it is what it is.


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## sinnister

From my vary limited experience with your posts I am definitely not qualified to give judgement. I will give my impression. I dont think you come across as a player at all.

You have the presence of mind to come to a relationship forum to discuss your marriage issues in an attempt to resovle your marriage, even if it didnt work out. That doesn scream "PLAYER" to me.

Is there something off? Probably. I get the sense that you dont really want marriage. I get the sense you dont want exclusivity at all. But not player. I dont get any insincere vibes from you. 

You're like me and most of the men on this site. Just trying to figure things out.


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## firebelly1

Having read your posts, I imagine that you may come off as guarded. And if you are only looking for 9's and 10's, women can sense your interest in them physically or not. Are there 9's and 10's at these singles events? Are they the ones you show an interest in and then they think your are a player? Or are the 7's and 8's saying you come off as a player?


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## happy as a clam

OP... when you get a chance, I hope you will address my earlier post (questions RE: your "30 second impression") as well as all of the others that have weighed in.


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## skype

Well, Random, I will chime in with my 2 cent's worth of assessment.

Look at your avatar. You were extremely guarded about revealing your ethnicity. I do think that you may give off a stand-offish vibe to protect yourself, due to your upbringing and your tendency to over-analyze things.

Since all we TAMers can do is guess, I would ask a female friend for a frank assessment of how women may view you. Make sure that you really want to hear the answer.

Doncha love amateur online psychologists? But the price for our therapy is right.

And yes, there is nothing wrong with not now nor ever being ready for an LTR.


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## RandomDude

Whao so many replies! I'll try my best to answer them...



Faithful Wife said:


> My vibe from you is that you are emotionally stunted and unable to make a true connection with people.





FrenchFry said:


> Nothing about how you post screams "guy who is ready to be in a healthy long term relationship." Any healthy woman looking for an LTR can sense that immediately.
> 
> I don't think you need to be resigned to your fate but if you sincerely don't see what it is you can work on to not give off that vibe then it is what it is.


Is it based on what I say here in this forum?

@sinnister

Aye, and right now just trying to figure this out which has been bugging me for ages.

@Deejo & Firebelly

It's 8/10+! not 9 or 10  Besides beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm just not wasting anyone's time by having physical standards; I.E. if I don't find them attractive I move on to the next one so they can end up with someone who does! Now ALOT of women are beautiful in my standards, I'm just specific in knowing what I like!

During these events I simply mingle, with everyone, not shy one bit. And not just the women, and definitely not just the pretty ones, not to mention such an aggressive approach just isn't my style.

You are correct that having FWB around hampens possible relationships, it still doesn't account how I can manage to make such a first impression as of a player however. Unless of course, I'm obviously failing to hide some vibe that I'm giving out >.<!



happy as a clam said:


> OP... when you get a chance, I hope you will address my earlier post (questions RE: your "30 second impression") as well as all of the others that have weighed in.


Errr... ok =/

1) Am I dazzlingly handsome? lol - I'd like to think so  
But no - as with anyone else, I'm attractive to some, and not so attractive to others.
Height - Average at 5'11
Frame - Athletic build

2) Shaved on top, clean shaven facial hair. .

3) Depends on where I'm going and what I'm doing, but nothing too extravagant, yes to a necklace. Yes to tats as well but most of the time covered when on first date.

4) Balanced between introverted and extroverted, loud enough to hear, no shouting, I do try to be smooth when meeting new people as to break the ice faster. As for "owning" the room, depends on my mood.

5) Heavy on body language - past experience in sales (also why my extroverted side is developed, although I'm in fact an introvert by nature). I do scan, but discreetly. I hate starers!

6) No I don't, although if I'm dating I do attempt to break the physical barrier as fast as possible.

@AslaDain

Yes well, that's actually why I'm with FWB, cause I said to hell with dating, I just need to know if I'm fked for life or if there's anything I can do.




SimplyAmorous said:


> Random Dude... why this question.. are you now wanting to be "relationship material"? I have caught a # of your posts over the last year or 2 after your last attempt trying to win your ex back.. but it seemed she was DONE....


I just want to know once and for all why I'm not, and then make an decision for my future.



> It just seems to me you have resolved the fact YOU NEVER WANTED TO be emotionally involved again, it was a pure "FVCK it" attitude and any women who even dared show the least bit of interest beyond what a sausage can do... SHE WOULD BE HISTORY...
> 
> This is what I got from your posts.. what has changed.. you are getting tired of this lifestyle ??
> 
> So you started to have feelings for a FB but pushed her away ?


This lifestyle has always been last resort if I can't find someone, I'm just unsure of whether to put the nail in the coffin at the moment, like if I can fix this, then hey, there's still hope. If not, then I can deal with it, as long as my mind is made. Right now it's indecisive due to inability to understand my situation.



lifeistooshort said:


> Please consider the bolded quote above. If this is true you're engaging in an age old double standard.....that you should be able to pick women based on shallow criteria but they shouldn't use shallow criteria to judge you.
> 
> And if I met a guy that was screwing a few women to pass the time I'd head in the other direction. This reeks of someone that's always looking elsewhere and will likely not be satisfied with just me. And that he probably has a lot of baggage. I'm not interested in dealing with a guy that has a long line of FWB's. If that's all sex is to you what that means to me is that I"ll be ms. right now and I'm not interested in that.


Actually FWB and I are exclusive at present times, as for being shallow, see my reasoning above in my reply to Deejo/firebelly



PBear said:


> How many of these women have you been truly open and exposed to? Perhaps they can tell you have areas of your life that you're hiding from them, which leads them to believe it's just about the sex?
> 
> C


The only thing I hide from them is my finances, which is understandable no?


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## RandomDude

skype said:


> Well, Random, I will chime in with my 2 cent's worth of assessment.
> 
> Look at your avatar. You were extremely guarded about revealing your ethnicity. I do think that you may give off a stand-offish vibe to protect yourself, due to your upbringing and your tendency to over-analyze things.




Errr, I've revealed my ethnicity many times. I just don't see the point of throwing it in people's faces lol, we all human here no?
I am guarded though - I find it difficult to trust. Can a man be considered non-relationship material if he's guarded?!



> Since all we TAMers can do is guess, I would ask a female friend for a frank assessment of how women may view you. Make sure that you really want to hear the answer.


I did and they claim they don't understand/don't know, I was asking nicely! Maybe I should interrogate next time!


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## skype

Well, if your female friends sincerely don't know why you come off as a player, I would just keep doing what you are doing, and stop worrying about it.

I apologize if my post was snarky. That was not my intention. I tried to answer your thread question, and of course it is not always wise to give an impression of someone you have never met.


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## NextTimeAround

What does guarded look like? It's not like we want someone who is indiscrete and guilty of TMI so often.

But possibly having FBs/ FWBs does diminish your reputation. First of all, no one is really certain what type of relationship that you are pursuing and will decide that it is not worth the risk.

It's no secret on this board that my husband when I first met him had some unfinished business. Had he moved seamlessly on to me, there would not have been a problem. But that didn't happen. His official line is that "she was just a friend" until I uncovered some not so just friends behavior between the two of them.

If I had to do that all over again, I would simply tell the guy if there were even a hint of another woman around that "we need to keep dating around" and move on.


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## southbound

RandomDude said:


> Seriously my entire history of experiences with women has been just tons of sex, few pockets of love in between and that's it. To the point that one past FWB (Friend with benefits) told me that I'm the type of guy that she likes to fk but never get involved in. In other words, I was nothing to her but a sausage (which at that time I was happy with). But what she said now haunts me as I return to the dating scene from marriage. Another even mentioned that I was "bf material" and not "husband material" based on her first impressions of me -.-
> 
> There's definitely something about me which is off, but I haven't found any answers. The only consistent response from women is that I apparently give off the vibe of a player which initially makes women back off. They never said anything was wrong with me, just who I am - the fk was that supposed to mean?
> 
> So ok, I started showing a little vulnerability here and there, but in the end, still nothing but a sausage. I still remember that one singles event that I attended and EVERY WOMAN believed I was a player (I blame the gossipers - but I find it disturbing that they all agreed without even getting to know me!!!!)
> 
> My ex never judged me in this way, confident from the get go that she could handle me (and she was right - I just couldn't handle her!). Yet, in the end, I was nothing but a sausage (and wallet) - but she certainly loved the sausage enough to marry the man behind it at one point!
> 
> Anyway, I'm with an FWB now so I'm still nothing but a sausage. After enough disappointments in dating I've succumbed to my fate. Is it time to acknowledge that I'm just not relationship material? Sure emotional attachments can still occur, evidently from a recent FB (fkbuddy) who I had to leave behind as I couldn't give her what she wanted - and from my perspective her "love" was merely an illusion/cloud as it happens from time to time in casual relationships.


You raise a good question. Everyone has a different situation, but I suppose what you are saying is that you consider yourself a normal guy. You don't look at yourself and see a hobo, Quasimoto, or Steve Urkel, so you wonder why in the heck women do not see you as relationship material. What probably adds to the confusion is you look around and see some Steve Urkels in a relationship with a hot woman and wonder what they have that you don't.

I hear you, and I am as puzzled as you.


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## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Whao so many replies! I'll try my best to answer them...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it based on what I say here in this forum?


What else would it be based on? :scratchhead:


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## As'laDain

there are some pretty hot russian chicks who are just waiting for an american to pay 14 thousand dollars to get them a green card and american citizenship. 

and a long marriage, but who cares about that. they're HOT right?

the above is a joke, BTW. mostly.


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## skype

As'laDain said:


> there are some pretty hot russian chicks who are just waiting for an american to pay 14 thousand dollars to get them a green card and american citizenship.
> 
> and a long marriage, but who cares about that. they're HOT right?
> 
> the above is a joke, BTW. mostly.


Random is an Aussie.


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## As'laDain

skype said:


> Random is an Aussie.




i mentioned mail order brides earlier in this thread.


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## firebelly1

Yes RD...guarded is a reason why women might think something is up. 

So here's a random (get it?) thought which may be completely off base but here goes:

I think you loved your wife and have had a hard time believing you might find someone as great as her. And it sounds like only recently have you really started letting her go. Or maybe you haven't entirely yet? 

If your question is are you relationship material, the answer is: of course, if you let yourself be and want to be. I think you want to love someone and be loved but what has been getting in the way is that you haven't let go of your wife yet emotionally. That may be what women are picking up on. Again, I may be way off base.


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## AliceA

I skimmed over a few males who I didn't think were marriage material.

If he was the sort of man who I couldn't guarantee would put my life before his (and therefore any future children if they came along), then he wasn't the one for me. This wasn't based on how he felt about me, but how he felt about himself. I think if it comes down to instinct, a man that would save himself (think of the beginning of the movie 28 Weeks Later), was not a keeper. Weird, but you just get that vibe from some guys.

Edited to add: and I just read some other responses that reminded me of a guy who I went on a few dates with who asked me if what we had would get serious enough that he should get rid of his FWB. I promptly told him he should definitely keep his FWB...


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## RandomDude

=/ Looks like this problem is more complicated than expected, but hey, guess it has to be to have plagued me for so long (12 years to be exact). Over the course of 12 years so many things change, that the reasons behind the vibe may be dynamic and less likely to be isolated as a simple individual problem.

Some things mentioned are things that I can never change, like hell of course I'm guarded, always have been, I don't like being made a fool out of, and if I'm a "player" because of that, so be it. 

Guess it's time to put the nail on the coffin. Relationships are no longer possible for me.


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## RandomDude

*sigh* Years ago I would have just treated this problem as just another obstacle and find a way to overcome it. For example, by pre-empting these judgements despite the vibe e.g. "you probably think of me as a player..." which helps open up the book and lets them see my pages aren't all hardened.

That was years ago though, nowadays I just don't give a sh-t - is that another thing that makes me non-relationship material?


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## thefam

RD I dont think what you have revealed onTAM makes you come off as a player. But you do come off as someone who gives up too easily regarding relationships and settle for just FWB because its "easier." Maybe other women are miss-reading you because you have a wall up to anyone seeing who you really are. And that wall comes off as a playa. 

You could be relationship material but at some point you are going to have to be willing to show vulnerability. Because it seems like you so easily give in to the "fvck it" attitude. There is no in-between it seems. You going to have to admit the fear and then plow through it. 

Of course I could be 100 percent wrong but my husband was not relatioship material until he turned his life around so I know a teeny bit about it.


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## jorgegene

Years ago I got the "I love you, but not like a husband". I scratched my head over that for days. We did EVERYTHING husbands and wives do including all the romantic lovey dovey stuff, so WTF does that mean?

Eventually, I discovered it said way more about her than me.
Her actual ex husband was a monster and abusive, and she was still off and on hung up on him, so what made me not good husband material? She wanted to mess around and I didn't.

That made me bad husband material.


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## Jellybeans

RandomDude said:


> Is it time to acknowledge that I'm just not relationship material?


I think you do and say things that are totally different.

You've said for eons now that you do NOT want to be in a relationship, you only want sex, no strings attached, and you make that known upfront. So you yourself are putting out there to the world and women you involve yourself with that a relationship is off the table. 

Now you are asking if you're not "relationship material" because some people have told you they don't see you as that, based on what you've told them yourself. 

It seems you don't want to be "relationship material." And now you are upset that people are calling you out on your own words about NOT wanting a relationship.

Oy, RD. You are your own worst enemy with these silly things.


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## BWBill

Other than your ex, have you found women that you want to be in a longer term relationship with, but they didn't (i.e., they broke up with you)?

Is there a common thread for these break ups?


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## As'laDain

do state that you are looking for a long term exclusive relationship? just saying it could clear up a lot of confusion...


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## As'laDain

skype said:


> Random is an Aussie.


that just means its more expensive lol


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## SimplyAmorous

thefam said:


> RD I dont think what you have revealed onTAM makes you come off as a player. But you do come off as someone who gives up too easily regarding relationships and settle for just FWB because its "easier." Maybe other women are miss-reading you because you have a wall up to anyone seeing who you really are. And that wall comes off as a playa.
> 
> *You could be relationship material but at some point you are going to have to be willing to show vulnerability. Because it seems like you so easily give in to the "fvck it" attitude. There is no in-between it seems. You going to have to admit the fear and then plow through it. *
> 
> Of course I could be 100 percent wrong but my husband was not relatioship material until he turned his life around so I know a teeny bit about it.


Until he can learn to lean into some vulnerability with a female, his goose is cooked.. the "I don't give a Flying Fvck" attitude ... why in the world would a woman want to put her defenses down in the light of that... everyone is emotionally UN available, the WALL is up to guard from hurt....for some, it's a lifestyle.. why it unraveled to this extent.. that may take a qualified Therapist... 

It takes 2 emotionally vulnerable people to scratch the surface of intimacy...then built upon it...day by day, sharing, laughing together, making memories... to where if that person was gone from your life..you'd be utterly devastated to what has been lost.. love songs will come alive unto you..

It helps if we resolve the fact this IS a worthy pursuit in life.. that LOVE & connection are worth this effort.. ..to not trample on it's ideal.. what in life is more fulfilling & has more purpose than to LOVE and be LOVED in return??

I was never one who struggled with the emotional.. strange as this may sound. .. but you know what, I own this to my Husband... one of those weak pitiful nice guys who laid the red carpet for me in showing how much he wanted me.. and just me... if I crushed him to pieces (which I didn't)... he still would have said.. I was worth the effort... maybe that is another kind of strength that seems rarely talked about... 

If you ever meet someone who SHAKES you like this.. don't walk away.. PLOW through it, as "the FAM" said. 

So long as their is breath, there is always HOPE ...


----------



## AliceA

Well, I guess you have to think, would you want to be with someone who couldn't give a stuff? Would you want to be with a woman who thought, 'eh, he's an 8, I'll do him I guess, a roll in the sack, if he doesn't turn out to be good enough for me to waste more time on, at least I get a lay out of it...'. What a turn off. Well, it'd be a turn off for me. I don't want to be used to scratch someone's itch then discarded like a piece of trash while he moves on to find another itch scratcher.

Ever considered not having a FB and just doing without sex for a while as you try to develop into a person that is more than just a sausage (to a woman anyway)?


----------



## lovesmanis

I have FWBs, because I know that I am not in the place emotionally to give my heart and soul to a man. 

As long as you put yourself in that place, that is all you are going to get. Have to make choices...


----------



## AliceA

I also had a FWB once upon a time when I wasn't emotionally available to commit to a relationship with anyone, but I needed some sort of connection to another person as I felt emotionally weak. Not all people will do it for this reason, but for me, FWB was like needing a safety net, or not being able to stand on your own two feet yet.


----------



## RandomDude

@As'laDain

Sure, when I was dating (not for FWBs). It's been almost two years seperated and haven't found anyone else, hence I started going "fk it"

@Breeze, SA, Jellybeans

Vulnerability? That's if I meet someone, I can't just be vulnerable towards everyone can I?

I understand if I'm going for an FWB any woman with reasonable wisdom will consider me non-relationship material. However, for almost two years I've held out in hope and I was dating for LTRs not FWBs. Eventually the disappointments piled up.

Besides I'm not really as hardened once my guard has been dropped, why can't they sense that? Ex did, she knew behind my walls I was vulnerable, she just exploited it for her own benefit once she got under my skin.



> Ever considered not having a FB and just doing without sex for a while as you try to develop into a person that is more than just a sausage (to a woman anyway)?


Sure, I did that when I first seperated, celibacy so to speak. I needed that time alone as I did dump a rather decent date (laundry lady) as I wasn't ready for a relationship at that time. Once I finally felt ready, well...



lovesmanis said:


> I have FWBs, because I know that I am not in the place emotionally to give my heart and soul to a man.
> 
> As long as you put yourself in that place, that is all you are going to get. Have to make choices...






> Other than your ex, have you found women that you want to be in a longer term relationship with, but they didn't (i.e., they broke up with you)?
> 
> Is there a common thread for these break ups?


Before I met my ex, yes it was a common trend, most 'relationships' lasted ~3-6 months. Looking back I was very much off the streets, so I don't blame them (based on the criteria of relationship material that others have posted here)

Now years later, it's even easier for me to get dates having established myself, but for my relationships to go past just sex, it still proved difficult. It shouldn't be this hard. I also have other things holding me back: Still seperated not yet divorced, daughter, etc etc. One date mentioned this as the main reason she did not wish to invest in 'us' though chances are there were other reasons she didn't wish to tell me.

One breakup doesn't do much, a pile of breakups over the course of your life does crazy things to your psyche. Especially when they all make you feel unlovable and nothing but a sausage who's only worth a few fks. As a result I decided to go "fk it" and settle with FWBs.

It's not ideal but hell...


----------



## RandomDude

Quite frankly I just want to make a decision based on all this, everything in my life tells me that relationships just aren't for me and the chances of meeting someone are too close to zero to even think of being vulnerable again.

Sure I can always drop my standards but I'm not desperate for love. I can crush my own desire for companionship, feeling the heart sink when I do but it's times when I feel down that my willpower fails to keep it in line and I start thinking of how it would be like to be in love again. Besides I have a good thing with my current FWB that is rare of it's own.

The problem is that by holding these desires back, when I do find myself infactuated it comes in force, robbing me of my otherwise smooth approach when it comes to women. And it always screws me up. But hey, if I have decided to kill off this desire, then I wouldn't have to worry about it would I?


----------



## mr.bunbury

You don't sound like you're very young? How old are you?

I don't know if you know it already but one of the perks of the lifestyle is that you'll have a nice collection of dentures your partners will leave behind as they grow older. Feel like jumping ship? Im exaggerating a little


----------



## RandomDude

I'm nearing 30 =/


----------



## mr.bunbury

I thought you were older, sorry.


----------



## lovesmanis

RandomDude said:


> I'm nearing 30 =/


You have lots of time. I am 37 and starting out fresh.


----------



## RandomDude

And this is why I don't like revealing my age, all my problems are suddenly dismissed as "you're still young, plenty of time" -.-
Sorry, I know you mean well... just, you know! Bah!

Besides this problem exists outside of anything to do with age considering it's part of the vibe I give out for the last twelve years, and from looks of things, may not change in the next twelve years.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

RandomDude said:


> Sure I can always drop my standards but I'm not desperate for love.


I think standards are good but look outside your box every now and then, you might find something new that attracts you and a new kind of woman that will fit your life.


----------



## RandomDude

Haha yeah and then they decide I'm not relationship material

Granted, the reasons given for the breakups post-marriage were understandable; seperated and not-yet-divorced status, daughter, not educated nor have a career hence not financially stable etc, yet they may have been excuses. I dunno.

In truth I rarely had to ever lower my standards looks-wise, there was always at least one woman out of a dozen or so that attracts me. It's the non-physical standards that makes it difficult, and another reason why I'm guarded - I like to invest my emotions wisely. But I guess I'm not allowed to do that am I?

BAH! Sorry, in a bad mood today cause of food poisoning >.<


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly I just want to make a decision based on all this, everything in my life tells me that relationships just aren't for me and the chances of meeting someone are too close to zero to even think of being vulnerable again.
> 
> Sure I can always drop my standards but I'm not desperate for love. I can crush my own desire for companionship, feeling the heart sink when I do but it's times when I feel down that my willpower fails to keep it in line and I start thinking of how it would be like to be in love again. Besides I have a good thing with my current FWB that is rare of it's own.
> 
> The problem is that by holding these desires back, when I do find myself infactuated it comes in force, robbing me of my otherwise smooth approach when it comes to women. And it always screws me up. But hey, if I have decided to kill off this desire, then I wouldn't have to worry about it would I?


One thing is ever so obvious about you Random Dude .... you have a Love of writing.. you have been here as long as me....you are a deep thinker....that introspection at every turn...... I hope you DO find Love someday, I hope it knocks you off your feet and you find yourself in a whirlwind.. (Yes I know I am too romantic for my own good...I likely annoy you speaking like this) and if/ when this does happen..

I hope you will sit down & write your heart out ...how you overcame this ongoing struggle in your life....I bet many caught in the casual carousel of unattached relationships , one after another after another could relate to your much of your story... 

I actually can't stomach Bad Boys...and you are top DOG ....Yet I must be honest here - I have a soft spot for YOU for some reason, you actually don't annoy me all that much.. I know it is because I've gleamed these moments of humble reflection from your posts.. deep feelings, wells of appreciation for your ex, on things I too would hold in high esteem....you wanting to protect your daughter from your own kind.....it's there... you just choose to fight it tooth & nail... it's like you are afraid you will crack or something...

We've had these conversations.. *it's related to how you view a MAN*... a man does not show WEAKNESS *in any form*, or he ceases to be a MAN.. this belief is so profound in you, due to your upbringing... how you had to be armor STRONG to survive on the streets....

Humor me, I am trying to inspire you with a quote...


----------



## Maneo

You just don't sound in a good place in your life for another serious relationship. Let's see, separated but not divorced. Get the divorce behind you and it changes the dynamics. There is a kid. Many of the women you meet may not warm up to the idea of instant family. You have been on the FWB merry-go-round. Word gets around and what woman is going to invest herself in a guy with a rep for serial relationships based largely on sex. And the women who are into the FWB scene aren't likely be looking to turn a good physical thing into something deep and meaningful. Guys aren't the only ones into short term relationships with lots of fun and bedroom gymnastics and little else. Finally there are the good old "standards" which are both physical and non- physical. Are these Miss America contestants here being judged on a set of criteria? The standards thing, whether overt or covert, can be a turn off for some women. And that is a two way street. Maybe you are below the bar on their standards. 

And to top it off you are throwing yourself a Rodney Dangerfield sized pity party about can't seem to get into a meaningful relationship. Even if that isn't being articulated to potential women friends, many can pick up the clues. Their internal warning systems fire off and they back away. 

Sounds to me like you are living a self fulfilled prophecy. 

Break the cycle.


----------



## As'laDain

Maneo said:


> You just don't sound in a good place in your life for another serious relationship. Let's see, separated but not divorced. Get the divorce behind you and it changes the dynamics. There is a kid. Many of the women you meet may not warm up to the idea of instant family. You have been on the FWB merry-go-round. Word gets around and what woman is going to invest herself in a with a rep for serial relationships based largely on sex. And the women who are into the FWB scene aren't likely be looking to turn a good physical thing into something deep and meaningful. aren't the only ones into short term relationships with lots of fun and bedroom gymnastics and little else. Finally there are the good "standards" which are both physical and non- physical. Are these Miss *Australia* contestants here being judged on a set of criteria? The standards thing, whether overt or covert, can be a turn off for some women. And that is a two way street. Maybe you are below the bar on their standards.
> 
> And to top it off you are throwing yourself a Rodney Dangerfield sized pity party about can't seem to get into a meaningful relationship. Even if that isn't being articulated to potential women friends, many can pick up the clues. Their internal warning systems fire off and they back away.
> 
> Sounds to me like you are living a self fulfilled prophecy.
> 
> Break the cycle.



fixed it for you. i made that mistake earlier


----------



## RandomDude

Maneo said:


> You just don't sound in a good place in your life for another serious relationship. Let's see, separated but not divorced. Get the divorce behind you and it changes the dynamics.


Ex and I are co-parents, and although we've been civil she refuses to 'accept responsibility' for the divorce by signing her half of the forms, hence I've been seperated for so long. I have no intention to rock the boat at present especially since it's bad enough our daughter has to live in two homes, relations need to be kept civil. After a while I'm sure she'll find someone who will encourage her to sign. Waiting it out.



> There is a kid. Many of the women you meet may not warm up to the idea of instant family.


I know and I don't blame them - as I don't warm up to the idea of raising someone else's child either.



> You have been on the FWB merry-go-round. Word gets around and what woman is going to invest herself in a guy with a rep for serial relationships based largely on sex. And the women who are into the FWB scene aren't likely be looking to turn a good physical thing into something deep and meaningful. Guys aren't the only ones into short term relationships with lots of fun and bedroom gymnastics and little else.


Well, if I do date someone and she can't accept me having FWBs in the past, I doubt she can accept my past of crime in my youth - so it's non compatibility and I would move on. If I was in for the short term I wouldn't reveal it, but for the long haul, I would have to, otherwise risking problems due to "dishonesty"



> Finally there are the good old "standards" which are both physical and non- physical. Are these Miss America contestants here being judged on a set of criteria? The standards thing, whether overt or covert, can be a turn off for some women. And that is a two way street. Maybe you are below the bar on their standards.


I actually appreciate a woman who knows what she wants =/

I guess the same is not the same for men, when a man knows what he wants guess he's not relationship material?



> And to top it off you are throwing yourself a Rodney Dangerfield sized pity party about can't seem to get into a meaningful relationship. Even if that isn't being articulated to potential women friends, many can pick up the clues. Their internal warning systems fire off and they back away.
> 
> Sounds to me like you are living a self fulfilled prophecy.
> 
> Break the cycle.


Errr, I post on this forum instead of venting in real life for a reason


----------



## RandomDude

@SimplyAmorous

Well I think a man can show weakness but only to those who are in no position to exploit it; aka this forum. I'm actually alot more vulnerable now than before, but I guess I'm still not relationship material.

Anyways I don't want you guys to pity me, just help me make a mental decision on my future. My life is good, I don't have to work if I decide not to, I have a great daughter who keeps me going, relations with my ex is civil, I enjoy a variety of hobbies and I have no problems getting dates.

I'm just annoyed that LTRs seem out of reach


----------



## SurpriseMyself

You work part-time jobs, don't have an education, have had multiple FWBs, and come off as a player. All of those would have to change before I would consider you or even set you up on a blind date with a friend. All of those things say that you aren't mature and you don't have any direction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RandomDude said:


> Anyways I don't want you guys to pity me, just help me make a mental decision on my future. My life is good, I don't have to work if I decide not to, I have a great daughter who keeps me going, relations with my ex is civil, I enjoy a variety of hobbies and I have no problems getting dates.
> 
> I'm just annoyed that LTRs seem out of reach


I wouldn't say there is any Pity here.. I would bet you earn more in a year with your Business over what my H makes to support our larger family.. you have good looks, women interested in you....what is there to pity.. you have what some men only dream of... 

I was feeling a little down yesterday...took our 2nd son for a college tour in the heart of a big city... much action.. excitement.. soon he'll be leaving us...seeing all those young people who seem to "have the life".. intelligent, motivated....the atmosphere, the freedom walking around this campus for the tour.. in some ways I was feeling "Did I miss out in my youth?".... never having had the College experience... maybe I could have done more with my life..had some sort of career... 

I openly share my thoughts with my Husband.. as always.. he had to snap me out of that.. and remind me how important I am to our children, that I am loved...that I have value even if I am skill-less (my words, not his).... Really...I am so thankful.. but in some ways I felt like an Amish Dutch woman walking around with them.. silly I know... 

Don't we all get caught up in comparing now & then... it surely sounds you have much to be thankful for.. and have come a long long considering your beginnings.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RD Said: "Sure, I did that when I first seperated, celibacy so to speak. I needed that time alone as I did dump a rather decent date (laundry lady) as I wasn't ready for a relationship at that time. Once I finally felt ready, well..."

If I remember correctly, your alone time period of celibacy didn't last more than two months after your separation. Which I'm just pointing out because it is another symptom of someone who really isn't available for real emotional connection. Someone who makes healthy connections will grieve and heal the end of a marriage. Sure they might take comfort in the arms of someone but you were actually writing long posts here about laundry girl and spent waaaaayyyy too much mental energy on her. Meanwhile, you were going through a divorce. To me it seems you don't really deal with one thing before you are running toward the next.

Don't you have a daughter? You should ask her if she feels you two have a good relationship and connection. She will likely tell you like it is, dad.


----------



## RandomDude

@SA

Well I got lucky  
I never had the college experience either! lol
A career/education doesn't mean everything, take me for example as sole provider during my marriage despite what others (like ex's family) thought. I royally made them look stupid 

@Faithful Wife

If you recall, we dated but never had sex, I ended it with her after the first kiss. Which was bad... but oh well, could have been worse. She was very understanding however.
As for healing after my divorce, there was simply too much pain at that time to accurately reflect on my marriage. Sitting on my hands while waiting for the pain to end isn't my style. Time heals all wounds, so I found distractions in the meantime.
Bad decision yes, but past is past.

As for my daughter, we're still very close and I have her every weekend. Not to mention due to ex's and I's arrangements she is coping very well with the divorce.


----------



## Jellybeans

RandomDude said:


> @Breeze, SA, Jellybeans
> 
> I understand if I'm going for an FWB any woman with reasonable wisdom will consider me non-relationship material.


Well at least you seem to understand now. I don't get though, why you care about what women who you don't want a relationship with think about you. You're not interested in them anyway.



RandomDude said:


> Now years later, it's even easier for me to get dates having established myself, but for my relationships to go past just sex, it still proved difficult. It shouldn't be this hard
> 
> One breakup doesn't do much, a pile of breakups over the course of your life does crazy things to your psyche


You do realize that most relationships aren't going to end in marriage, right? Not everyone you meet/date ends up being a LTR or marriage. 



RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly I just want to make a decision based on all this, everything in my life tells me that relationships just aren't for me and the chances of meeting someone are too close to zero to even think of being vulnerable again.


You just sound down on yourself. Cheer up. There are a lot of people on this planet. You will meet one eventually who you want to be with in more than a FWB. It's inevitable. Because there are 7 billion people living on this earth right now, just as you are. 

I still don't think you are over your ex-wife though. Because you mention her allllllllllllll the time. And not only that, you aren't even divorced yet. 

It takes time.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

RandomDude said:


> I actually appreciate a woman who knows what she wants =/
> 
> I guess the same is not the same for men, when a man knows what he wants guess he's not relationship material?


It depends what your list looks like. 

Is it a reasonable set of qualities that would make a good life partner or is it a fantasy woman that would make other women think you are not ready for a real life relationship?


----------



## FrenchFry

RandomDude said:


> @SA
> Sitting on my hands while waiting for the pain to end isn't my style. *Time heals all wounds, *so I found distractions in the meantime.
> Bad decision yes, but past is past.


No to the bolded. Time is time and if you are unwilling or unable to actually do work (therapy, counseling or unfettered self-reflection) all that has happened is that time passes and you continue to make the same choices and mistakes without seeing where you could be hindering your own goals.

So time has passed and as you have found you stay stagnant. Now you have to do some work.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> @Faithful Wife
> 
> If you recall, we dated but never had sex, I ended it with her after the first kiss. Which was bad... but oh well, could have been worse. She was very understanding however.
> As for healing after my divorce, *there was simply too much pain at that time to accurately reflect on my marriage. Sitting on my hands while waiting for the pain to end isn't my style. Time heals all wounds, so I found distractions in the meantime.
> Bad decision yes, but past is past.*
> 
> As for my daughter, we're still very close and I have her every weekend. Not to mention due to ex's and I's arrangements she is coping very well with the divorce.


Just saying "bad decision, past is past" doesn't mean you get to move forward. Like FF said, no one gets to move forward until they do their inner work. This is why you are stuck. You avoid things that are uncomfortable, and that means you never actually work through them. Which is likely why you cannot also make emotional connections.

Ok your daughter is doing well. Yet you didn't address what I actually said. Ask your daughter if you have a good relationship with her and what kind of man she thinks you are. Doing this is for YOU to understand more about yourself from the perspective of someone you should love and be close to.


----------



## RandomDude

Of course I can't help mentioning my ex cause everyone I met thus far just sucks compared to her, she was fairly competent as a wife and it was only after a year I realised this. I wouldn't have realised it if I tried to reflect whilst in pain and anger

As for my daughter and I we always had a good relationship, she tells me everything too, if there's a problem I always know. I'm not hardened towards her, she's my flesh n blood and only child, if anything shes the only person who is in a ripe position to break my heart but tis parenthood!


----------



## PBear

BTW, my SO and I started off as fwb almost 4 years ago. She moved in with my back in September, and I think we're a pretty good match.  

C


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Of course I can't help mentioning my ex cause everyone I met thus far just sucks compared to her, she was fairly competent as a wife and it was only after a year I realised this. I wouldn't have realised it if I tried to reflect whilst in pain and anger
> 
> As for my daughter and I we always had a good relationship, she tells me everything too, if there's a problem I always know. I'm not hardened towards her, she's my flesh n blood and only child, if anything shes the only person who is in a ripe position to break my heart but tis parenthood!


Everything you've said here just sounds like a deflection, not reflection. If you figure out the difference, you might get somewhere.


----------



## always_alone

RD, you have received lots of insightful and kind advice here. Let me spell it out for you:

Your walls are sky high and a mile thick. You view women as shallow money-grubbers out to suck you dry, and you put them through a million sh*t tests to prove their worth to you. The minute they get a bit close, you drive them away.

There may be someone out there who is willing to scale those walls and help you break them down, but I wouldn't count on it. Especially when you still have your snipers on full guard.

It is not until you're willing to truly connect with someone --to let them see the real you, and to bother to take the time to see the real them-- that you will find the relationship you seek.


----------



## Created2Write

RandomDude said:


> =/ Looks like this problem is more complicated than expected, but hey, guess it has to be to have plagued me for so long (12 years to be exact). Over the course of 12 years so many things change, that the reasons behind the vibe may be dynamic and less likely to be isolated as a simple individual problem.
> 
> Some things mentioned are things that I can never change, like hell of course I'm guarded, always have been, I don't like being made a fool out of, and if I'm a "player" because of that, so be it.
> 
> Guess it's time to put the nail on the coffin. Relationships are no longer possible for me.


You can have relationships without being taken advantage of, RD...If you understand what your boundaries and expectations are, make them clear, and hold the women you're with to those standards. Relationships _need_ boundaries, or they become toxic and unhealthy. I feel like you may not apply this in your life...I mean, no one likes to made a fool of, but that doesn't mean they can't have healthy relationships...


----------



## Created2Write

RandomDude said:


> As for healing after my divorce, there was simply too much pain at that time to accurately reflect on my marriage.


This is the problem, RD. Or, at least, a major part of it. The pain is precisely why you _should have_ reflected on your marriage. You can't find a healthy relationship if you're still broken from the past. My second miscarriage proved this to me. I didn't deal with the pain of the first one, it was "too strong", "too much", so I stuffed it. I pretended that I was okay and, after a time, believed that I was. Then I had my second miscarriage and fell apart; I attempted suicide twice, I stopped eating, I stopped sleeping. I finally realized that I needed help, and I got into grief counseling. 

I strongly encourage you to find a grief counselor. Time, on it's own, doesn't heal anything, and can even make things worse. Your fear of disappointment controls your choices, a sign that you are not at a healthy emotional place. You won't find a healthy relationship if you, yourself, are not healthy. Disappointment is always a risk, but an essential part of a healthy relationship is the trust that is built with both people are willing to take that risk on each other. 



> Sitting on my hands while waiting for the pain to end isn't my style.


Waiting for the pain to end won't end the pain at all. If you sit on your hands, it really won't go away. Pain doesn't heal on its own. Wounds don't heal on their own. If you leave a wound open, it will get infected and cause even more pain. You need to work through the pain, you need to treat the wound, before healing can occur. 



> Time heals all wounds, so I found distractions in the meantime.
> Bad decision yes, but past is past.


Time doesn't heal ANY wounds. The past, in this case, is not the past because you're still dealing with the pain of past wounds. I highly recommend counseling. If you're willing to do the work, you will heal, and you will find the relationship you desire.


----------



## RandomDude

Thanks guys, although I disagree with the suggested healing processes for myself personally, I can see that relationships were perhaps never truly for me. I can be content with what I have as long as I am convinced the grass on the other side isn't for me, which I guess is evident


----------



## Fenix

thefam said:


> You could be relationship material but at some point you are going to have to be willing to show vulnerability. Because it seems like you so easily give in to the "fvck it" attitude. There is no in-between it seems. You going to have to admit the fear and then plow through it.
> 
> Of course I could be 100 percent wrong but my husband was not relatioship material until he turned his life around so I know a teeny bit about it.


 RD, you come across as a player because that is what you tell them you are. You are only into it for the ramming...or so you say. You also have your **** tests. Some women just don't have time for that kind of nonsense. Vulnerability is not about weakness and you will not break. It is about being strong enough to allow people in...to make connections with those with whom you feel a spark.



RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly I just want to make a decision based on all this, everything in my life tells me that relationships just aren't for me and the chances of meeting someone are too close to zero to even think of being vulnerable again.
> 
> Sure I can always drop my standards but I'm not desperate for love. I can crush my own desire for companionship, feeling the heart sink when I do but it's times when I feel down that my willpower fails to keep it in line and I start thinking of how it would be like to be in love again. Besides I have a good thing with my current FWB that is rare of it's own.
> 
> The problem is that by holding these desires back, when I do find myself infactuated it comes in force, robbing me of my otherwise smooth approach when it comes to women. And it always screws me up. But hey, if I have decided to kill off this desire, then I wouldn't have to worry about it would I?


So what? Most people kind of lose their groove when they come across someone who they feel that zing. That is what makes it fun; The uncertainty and the hope in what could be.

Your FWB now sounds ideal. She sounds fun and you really like and respect her. Just go with it. You have been out of your marriage for only two years, and you are only nearing 30...there is so much time. Focus on relaxing into your life as it is today. You are professionally successful, you have a great daughter and you have a fun relationship with a FWB. That is enough for now. Allow yourself time to heal (because you haven't yet), raise your daughter and work on not building walls. If you get hurt again (and you very may will) oh well...you will pick yourself up, focus on the good parts of that past relationship and learn from it. 

Right now, you are exceedingly cynical about women and relationships. THAT is what many pick up on. Work on the cynicism because as a father to a daughter, she needs you to see her gender in a positive light and to be emotionally/mentally healthy. That is probably the best reason you have for tackling your demons.


eta: And yeah, your age plays a part in this. Deal with it. No matter what you have done, you lack the wisdom of the long game.


----------



## always_alone

RandomDude said:


> Thanks guys, although I disagree with the suggested healing processes for myself personally, I can see that relationships were perhaps never truly for me. I can be content with what I have as long as I am convinced the grass on the other side isn't for me, which I guess is evident


I understand why you would make that choice, RD. Walls offer great protection, and opening up to another person is a bit like free fall, often complete with a crash back to earth.

But your OP indicates that you also crave a connection, and so it may be worth your while not to give up so easily. It's true that there are many risks to reaching out, and certainly no guarantee of success. You may get hurt along the way.

But building the walls thicker and higher also has its own costs, as it can get very lonely inside. 

Your choice.


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## Cynthia

You do not seem to be relationship material at this time, but that does not mean you will always be this way. Leave room in your life for personal growth and maturity.
Having sex with people you are not emotionally connected to is not emotionally healthy. It is contributing to your problem rather than solving it. You are soothing your emotional pain and physical desire through sexual encounters with people who you do not have a deep connection to. This is a road to further pain and emotional immaturity.
This is why you come across as a player – because really – you are a player. People who behave the way you are describing your own behavior are players. If you don’t want people to think you are a player, stop being one.
The way to resolve your problem is to face and resolve those things that are giving you pain. Face the divorce head on and finish it. As long as you are still officially married, you cannot move on in a healthy manner. Do what is necessary to finish the divorce. While you are doing that, work to resolve personal issues that are holding you back from being emotionally healthy. Resolve what is in your way of having healthy happy relationships. Now is the perfect time for you to do this so you will grow into a strong man of integrity and honor. Right now, it does not appear that you are on that tract. You seems to be seeking fulfillment through other people either by using them as sexual objects and being used for the same or seeking someone to connect with when you are not ready to connect in a healthy way.


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## ConanHub

Cut out the FB and FWB.

If you never look for those types of relationships you will probably clear the way for something more meaningful.

I really liked what Deejo said.


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## RandomDude

Yeah... well I guess I'll give it some time. Quite frankly FWB is making it difficult to look elsewhere as well, she's beautiful, sexy, trustworthy, honest, and forfills many of my desires. When one already has a good thing, why go to the market?

I remember the last time I went on a date in which I ended our sexual relations with FWB for a brief period but I missed her. Ironically so far I've spent more money on FWB then I have my recent dates, but hey I've been with her longer than most too.

If I wasn't so guarded I'll probably be dating FWB right now, considering how good she has been to me. But... I can't trust her financially, but thats probably more my paranoia after losing my fortune to ex divorce-proofing my business. Maybe in the end - I'm just not ready.

Think I'll just shut off but not completely then, give myself until age 30 to get involved emotionally again.


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## heartsbeating

FrenchFry said:


> No to the bolded. Time is time and if you are unwilling or unable to actually do work (therapy, counseling or unfettered self-reflection) all that has happened is that time passes and you continue to make the same choices and mistakes without seeing where you could be hindering your own goals.
> 
> So time has passed and as you have found you stay stagnant. Now you have to do some work.


Golden.


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## heartsbeating

always_alone said:


> RD, you have received lots of insightful and kind advice here. Let me spell it out for you:
> 
> Your walls are sky high and a mile thick. You view women as shallow money-grubbers out to suck you dry, and you put them through a million sh*t tests to prove their worth to you. The minute they get a bit close, you drive them away.
> 
> There may be someone out there who is willing to scale those walls and help you break them down, but I wouldn't count on it. Especially when you still have your snipers on full guard.
> 
> It is not until you're willing to truly connect with someone --to let them see the real you, and to bother to take the time to see the real them-- that you will find the relationship you seek.


So it's true... some men do sh*t test!


Random, I can't help but be drawn into your drama and threads. I resist at first then can't help but find out what you are posting. The post about you being nearly 30 made me chuckle, with warm intention. It sounds as though you have so much to be grateful for, maybe your walls just prevent you from acknowledging that. It's good to just breathe and roll with life at times...... anyway, I hope you're over the food poisoning. That sucks.


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## happy as a clam

RandomDude said:


> Think I'll just shut off but not completely then, give myself until age 30 to get involved emotionally again.


You're not even 30 yet?!

Wow, you've had A LOT of relationship issues in your relatively young life.

You really do come across as an "old soul." I do not mean that in a negative or condescending way.

Best of luck.


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## RandomDude

Yeah, guess sometimes I'm just a big baby crying over spilled milk heh  Life is good, just going to roll with it. I'm healing from poisoning too so I can finally enjoy my vacation, especially since it's all pleasure and no more business till I return home. Tired now though, going to relax today and head out again tomorrow with FWB.


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## Cynthia

RandomDude said:


> Yeah... well I guess I'll give it some time. Quite frankly FWB is making it difficult to look elsewhere as well, she's beautiful, sexy, trustworthy, honest, and forfills many of my desires. When one already has a good thing, why go to the market?
> 
> I remember the last time I went on a date in which I ended our sexual relations with FWB for a brief period but I missed her. Ironically so far I've spent more money on FWB then I have my recent dates, but hey I've been with her longer than most too.
> 
> If I wasn't so guarded I'll probably be dating FWB right now, considering how good she has been to me. But... I can't trust her financially, but thats probably more my paranoia after losing my fortune to ex divorce-proofing my business. Maybe in the end - I'm just not ready.
> 
> Think I'll just shut off but not completely then, give myself until age 30 to get involved emotionally again.


It sounds like you are saying that you could have an emotionally fulfilling relationship with this woman, but you are afraid, so you are looking elsewhere and are finding that people are picking up a player vibe from you. 
I'm wondering if you tend to make the woman of your life a sort of idol where you expect her to meet all of your needs and be your world. Is this true?


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## Created2Write

It comes down to a simple, but perhaps not an easy, choice: do you want/need emotional connections with the opposite sex or not?

If the answer is no, then maybe you're not relationship material. But based on how disappointed you sound at the idea of "giving up" on relationships, I'd be willing to bet that you _do_ need those emotional connections. But, if you want _healthy_ relationships that deliver emotional safety, you can't just stuff your pain and expect it to heal on its own. 

Many people struggle with the idea of counseling. I challenge you to look beyond that doubt and fear. Pain doesn't heal on its own. Counseling worked for me. I not only healed from the pain of my miscarriages, I've found healthy boundaries in other aspects of my life that I didn't even intend to cover. I've found a voice with my family for the first time in my life, I'm learning not to beat myself up when I make mistakes, I learned how to manage stress and anxiety, I learned how to make time for myself...

Obviously, it's your choice. But usually the things that make us the most uncomfortable with regards to self-reflection and emotional healing, are the most important and beneficial. I encourage you to consider it.


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## RandomDude

I have been in counselling during and after my seperation, its not like I've been keeping to myself heh.AAs for FWB our priorities are not compatible, her values lie too much on the materialistic side however I respect her honesty with me. I'd rather not involve myself with someone who finds my wealth sexually appealing


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## Cynthia

RandomDude said:


> I'd rather not involve myself with someone who finds my wealth sexually appealing


Most women are looking for a good provider. Women find good providers sexually appealing. That's not necessarily a bad thing.


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## RandomDude

Not for me


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## Angelou

Do you know who you are? What can you offer another person? Why do you think you are ready now to commit to someone instead of being immature and self absorbed?:scratchhead:


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## Angelou

RandomDude said:


> Yeah... well I guess I'll give it some time. Quite frankly FWB is making it difficult to look elsewhere as well, she's beautiful, sexy, trustworthy, honest, and forfills many of my desires. When one already has a good thing, why go to the market?
> 
> I remember the last time I went on a date in which I ended our sexual relations with FWB for a brief period but I missed her. Ironically so far I've spent more money on FWB then I have my recent dates, but hey I've been with her longer than most too.
> 
> If I wasn't so guarded I'll probably be dating FWB right now, considering how good she has been to me. But... I can't trust her financially, but thats probably more my paranoia after losing my fortune to ex divorce-proofing my business. Maybe in the end - I'm just not ready.
> 
> Think I'll just shut off but not completely then, give myself until age 30 to get involved emotionally again.



Time is in your hands. Just be patient and the right girl will come into your life. FWB is a temporary distraction that is meant to be enjoyed but sounds like you are getting over it. Kind of like someone getting over the clubbing scene.


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## RandomDude

=/
Maybe this can be me and FWB's theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c16KraHZ7GE

"I know it's not your fault, but I'm a locked door
And inside I'm a mess by someone before
And I wish that I, I could find a key
To unlock all the things you want us to be

Let me open up and start again
But there's a safe around my heart
I don't know how to let you in
That's what keeps us apart

And that's why I need time
I said I need you
I need you to understand..."


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## RandomDude

Ok guys, so if my lack of vulnerability/walls/etc is the culprit then...

In my attempts to self reflect and find out what makes me so hardened towards FWB (enough to prevent emotional entanglement) it turns out there's just a simple glaring issue I need to resolve; my paranoia and bitterness in regards to financial stability.

In the past I was definitely not financially stable, working wage jobs and had no ambition, nor education or career. Despite that, when I met my ex years ago she did not mind any of that one bit. Her family however was not impressed, still people had faith in me and having a child gave me enough purpose to finally establish myself financially to support my new family.

Post-seperation, despite my new financial position which is infinitely more secure then in the past, my bitterness from the past still haunts me. As such, I can not open up to any woman who shows any value towards finances. Even if I actually consider their financial standards quite reasonable - for instance I wouldn't want my daughter or any women in my family to date a man like I was in the past. Yet I harden towards any woman who has that mentality (to even protect herself)

I also find it troubling when a woman expresses positive impressions due to financial stability, such as my current FWB (who even finds it sexually appealing). Now bare in mind I don't feel anything for FWB and FWB herself has affirmed me that there will be no emotional entanglement from her side - to keep our arrangements from being complicated. However our recent interactions and growing fondness for each other is proving otherwise and to be honest... if she decides to tell me now that she's becoming emotionally attached - I would actually give it a try, even though I feel nothing. I have no fear of rejection from her, which helps me to confirm where I stand with her. But I do fear complications to our otherwise pleasant experiences with each other.

Still, she gives and takes, unlike some women I've dated, is very affectionate and a great companion to travel with. But if I was to date her, properly, I can't do so without some emotions - and without anything blocking them.

How do I deal with my paranoia and bitterness? The pain of constant rejection and treatment as nothing more than a sausage in my youth has still left a bitter taste in my mouth. I need to get this childish mentality out of my head, the mentality of "Oh hey, when I was poor, you didn't think I was relationship material, and now I'm rich, you want me? fk off"

Bah!

But how?


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## Maneo

I'd say you need to continue or restart counseling. No matter what people suggest you have reasons it won't work for you. There's only so much a forum like this can do or offer. Time for some more professional assistance.


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## RandomDude

Aye, guess I'm too fked up in the end.

Turns out having a first wife who married you prior to financial establishment manages to scar you for life!


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## Cynthia

RandomDude said:


> Aye, guess I'm too fked up in the end.
> 
> Turns out having a first wife who married you prior to financial establishment manages to scar you for life!


It doesn't have to. You are not a hopeless case.


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## Methuselah

RandomDude said:


> 4) Likely: Prior to marriage I had nothing but a part-time job, however I was fully independent and always paid my own. Still this is likely to have been the reason behind some of them. At present I do misdirect and omit my finances to portray an average middle class man. I also remain uneducated to this day.



There is your answer.

Women want a man with ambition for a LTR. Define "ambition" as someone with drive who is not going to simply become a couch potato playing video games they have to support.

If you give off the vibe of a deadbeat, or, perhaps, that of a "kept man" (hence: player -- obviously you are getting your money from somewhere, so clearly it is from another woman you're currently milking while prowling for the next victim), you will not be seriously considered LTR/marriage material but will instead simply be a sausage.


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## southern wife

RandomDude said:


> Seriously my entire history of experiences with women has been just tons of sex, few pockets of love in between and that's it. To the point that one past FWB (Friend with benefits) told me that I'm the type of guy that she likes to fk but never get involved in. In other words, I was nothing to her but a sausage (which at that time I was happy with). But what she said now haunts me as I return to the dating scene from marriage. Another even mentioned that I was "bf material" and not "husband material" based on her first impressions of me -.-
> 
> There's definitely something about me which is off, but I haven't found any answers. The only consistent response from women is that I apparently give off the vibe of a player which initially makes women back off. They never said anything was wrong with me, just who I am - the fk was that supposed to mean?
> 
> So ok, I started showing a little vulnerability here and there, but in the end, still nothing but a sausage. I still remember that one singles event that I attended and EVERY WOMAN believed I was a player (I blame the gossipers - but I find it disturbing that they all agreed without even getting to know me!!!!)
> 
> My ex never judged me in this way, confident from the get go that she could handle me (and she was right - I just couldn't handle her!). Yet, in the end, I was nothing but a sausage (and wallet) - but she certainly loved the sausage enough to marry the man behind it at one point!
> 
> Anyway, I'm with an FWB now so I'm still nothing but a sausage. After enough disappointments in dating I've succumbed to my fate. Is it time to acknowledge that I'm just not relationship material? Sure emotional attachments can still occur, evidently from a recent FB (fkbuddy) who I had to leave behind as I couldn't give her what she wanted - and from my perspective her "love" was merely an illusion/cloud as it happens from time to time in casual relationships.


I have to say this and sorry in advance, but you sound like the guy I just broke up with. Him and FB fk buddies.........while dating me = player. Uggghhhhhh

*going back to my corner*


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## southern wife

RD, have you tried NOT dating, no FWB, no fb FK buddies for a while, and just really get your head together? You know, work on yourself!


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## RandomDude

CynthiaDe said:


> It doesn't have to. You are not a hopeless case.


Perhaps not, but I don't seem to have much desire to fix this situation at present, not unless I'm given enough reason to (like, FWB actually considering the same thing - of a potential relationship). So far the yin and yang are quite balanced.

Still, I'm glad to have found the answer.



Methuselah said:


> There is your answer.
> 
> Women want a man with ambition for a LTR. Define "ambition" as someone with drive who is not going to simply become a couch potato playing video games they have to support.
> 
> If you give off the vibe of a deadbeat, or, perhaps, that of a "kept man" (hence: player -- obviously you are getting your money from somewhere, so clearly it is from another woman you're currently milking while prowling for the next victim), you will not be seriously considered LTR/marriage material but will instead simply be a sausage.


Well, my financial story which I currently portray to women I date (not FWBs however) I consider quite stable; a steady 'job' and enough money to support oneself and a small family. I do declare that I'm not financially motivated (which I'm not, I just don't let them on the why - I just don't need to be anymore!).

I don't know if all this omissions are truly negative, as I don't exactly lie, just misdirect them in terms of my assets, as a safeguard against potential gold diggers. However, I guess the "non financially motivated" part equals deadbeat unless I explain fully - which I won't to woman I don't trust.

Never once in my life have I ever accepted money from a woman either. Not even my ex back in the day who insisted that I take her parents money, I always had my own, and knew how to make more whenever I needed it. I had hoped this aspect of me would counter-balance the truth of me not being financially motivated without having to reveal anything.

But... guess not.



southern wife said:


> I have to say this and sorry in advance, but you sound like the guy I just broke up with. Him and FB fk buddies.........while dating me = player. Uggghhhhhh
> 
> *going back to my corner*





southern wife said:


> RD, have you tried NOT dating, no FWB, no fb FK buddies for a while, and just really get your head together? You know, work on yourself!


Ah! But the difference is = I don't date and have FWBs at the same time  

As for breaking things up with FWB, well, if given enough reason I'll definitely have another dry spell. Thankfully I have as much space as I want from her at anytime. Quite frankly she's been real good to me lately, enough to make me consider dating her despite lack of feelings - as she could be a decent long term companion.

Plus I like to multi-task


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## RandomDude

At the very least however, I think I have to abandon my little anti-materialism test if I am to take things seriously in the future. It's all an attempt to sell myself short hoping to meet someone like my ex who committed to me despite having a mediocre income in my youth.

My choice of words I guess give off the wrong impressions, on my other thread (the anti-materialism one) I still remember someone mentioned that at my age women will be much less forgiving compared to the past as well - as they expect establishment, so selling myself short at present times only serves to make me non-relationship material.

At the same time, I've never played this game with FWB, as I never expected her to be anything more than just a FB - in which she has proven herself over the months to be a decent companion enough that I've gradually trusted her (and understood her) more and more.


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## always_alone

RandomDude said:


> How do I deal with my paranoia and bitterness? The pain of constant rejection and treatment as nothing more than a sausage in my youth has still left a bitter taste in my mouth. I need to get this childish mentality out of my head, the mentality of "Oh hey, when I was poor, you didn't think I was relationship material, and now I'm rich, you want me? fk off"
> 
> Bah!
> 
> But how?


I can relate to your story in many ways, RD. In my youth, I was treated as nothing more than a hole to be used and discarded like the garbage they thought I was. Like you, this hurt me tremendously, and like you, I learned to hide my assets so that this would never happen to me again.

One thing to remember is that these walls aren't necessarily childish or a bad thing. They are protective. And, tbh, I think your knee-jerk reaction at being treated differently because you have a few bucks in your pocket is pretty reasonable. You are, after all, the same person you were before, and there is little that is more alienating than being used for what you offer rather then appreciated for who you are.

When the walls start becoming a problem is when you start making those same judgments across the board. Yes, there are a lot of women who will find your money more interesting than you, and would dump you in a flash if you were to lose it, just as there are a lot of men who are more than happy to use a woman for sex, then dump her and call her garbage. But the key is to look deeper, and to find the ones that aren't just about using others to get what they want.

It also requires that you be this person too, and that you don't fall into the trap of treating others as badly as you are worried they will treat you.

The walls don't need to come down entirely, but you do need a door, one that you are willing to open and invite others through. And you need to be willing to live up to those standards that you want to impose on others. No one loves a hypocrite.


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## Methuselah

RandomDude said:


> Well, my financial story which I currently portray to women I date (not FWBs however) I consider quite stable; a steady 'job' and enough money to support oneself and a small family. I do declare that I'm not financially motivated (which I'm not, I just don't let them on the why - I just don't need to be anymore!).


Well, look, I guess the point I was attempting to make is this: virtually every woman who is actively dating runs across guys who would like nothing better to find a woman with a good-paying job so they can sit around the house all day playing Xbox. 

I hear a huge number of horror stories from my grand-daughter about the men she encounters, lamenting how its difficult to find a man who is not a deadbeat (read: stable job, has an interest in having/raising a family, understands the financial implications of such, etc.) I would discount her experience as her merely being an a**hole magnet if it wasn't for the fact I also hear women at work complaining about the same thing.

So, if you project that type of image, either intentionally or unintentionally, women may consider you non-LTR material because they question whether or not you will be "stable" or financially able to provide for the family they wish to have.


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## RandomDude

I guess I'm a little old-fashioned in that way, as I wouldn't allow a woman to pay for me - a good/bad trait. Still I guess that isn't enough. If I was to change my perspective of women I guess I can use my daughter as a guideline - in which I would actually encourage her to protect themselves from deadbeats by having financial standards.

The same financial standards that I am quick to judge as materialism however, making things a little ironic as I would expect the same from my daughter. However is all this old-fashioned thinking? Like hey, nowadays a woman is not only capable of supporting herself but expected to assist financially in marital affairs.

The main issue that I have with FWB is that her priorities are different to mine (as well as my ex's), in that she values finances first before any physical or emotional attraction, where as my ex and I shared the same priorities of Physical>Emotional>Financial. Is it wrong of me to judge FWB so?

If she was my daughter, I would encourage my particular arrangements of priorities even if I would also encourage financial standards to be used as a safety measure. Still, FWB is her own woman, with her own priorities. Meh I dunno


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## always_alone

RandomDude said:


> The main issue that I have with FWB is that her priorities are different to mine (as well as my ex's), in that she values finances first before any physical or emotional attraction, where as my ex and I shared the same priorities of Physical>Emotional>Financial. Is it wrong of me to judge FWB so?


I personally would not date someone who was attracted by money because I wouldn't trust them to really care for *me*. But I also wouldn't date someone who put my looks at top priority because I would expect them to lose interest as I age, or run off with the next prettier opportunity.

But those are my priorities. You get to choose your own.


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## RandomDude

=/

So would you consider my hardening in this instance to be justified?


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## always_alone

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> So would you consider my hardening in this instance to be justified?


I completely understand why you would be reluctant to become too involved with someone who has made it clear that money is her primary motive for being with you. I too would keep my distance.

But what's your motive for being with her? If it's just because she's hot enough for you to want to use her body until you find something better, then, well, I quite understand why she and other women are reluctant to see you as real LTR material.

It's a two-way street.


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## RandomDude

Well, she is currently the best FWB I've ever hooked up with, and despite her priorities she has turned out very give/take -> I spend money on her but she spends on me as well, as good friends. So I dunno, was seeing if I can get over it.

Guess not, and well... at this point I don't think I can break things off considering how great my life is right now with her, even though it's lacking on the love department.


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## heartsbeating

My only thought on your last post is just to ensure she's aware this is what it is with her while it lasts - so that you're both clear.


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