# Wife is drifting away..



## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm back on the board as I have no one in my life that I can share this with. My wife had a brief emotional affair in March. See my earlier thread for the details.

Since that time I have tried hard to be emotionally available to her - as much as I can. Our sex life improved tremendously, and we took an exciting trip away just the two of us. We have tentative plans to go to Rome for a vacation- which she always wanted to do. I thank the board commenters for helping me realize that would be good for our marriage.

However in the last month she has been drifting away from me. When the EA was discovered, she shared her phone records with me and let me on her facebook account. Now she is back to her secretive ways. She takes the phone with her constantly - I used to openly check her texts, right or wrong. She has zero affection for me now. Often we will sit for an hour after the kids are in bed without speaking to one another. Then she wants to jump in bed and go crazy. Hey I'm a man and I certainly participate, but even men need a kind word and a gentle touch once in a while. I hug and touch her frequently, but she hardly reciprocates - I bet she could go a week without patting me on the knee, or offering advice. Funny enough I don't feel the need to get this from anyone else - yet.

I feel like our marriage is in more jepoardy than even in the days after I found her straying. Now I constantly wonder if she is cheating on me though I have zero evidence. She is gone from the house all day long almost every day- the kids are really starting to notice. Bedtime routines are starting to shift to me and the housekeeper. Her drinking (wine at night) is starting earlier each day (4PM). 

I think that when I found out about her tryst it changed my perception of her character and our marriage forever. I always felt like a single affair would doom our marriage, but now I know she doesn't feel the same. It seems as though she has checked out of this marriage. What she is waiting for I have no idea.

*Where do I go from here?* Last Saturday she ignored me so bad that I just gave up on communication altogether. If she noticed I didn't see it. *Should I share my feelings with anyone else?* I am close with my parents, and they are the ones that truly care for me, but early in my marriage my mother made it clear that she wouldn't be a sounding board for my complaints about my wife. That leaves me so alone right now.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

It sounds very much like the affair never really ended. It just went farther underground. It can't stay that deep, however, which is why you are seeing it start up again. 

I'd assume its still going and act accordingly. Gather more evidence. If you do find that it is still going, you'll need to take more drastic action. 

At the same time, sit down with her and express your concern. Ask her why she is hiding her life from you again. (Again, keep in mind the affair is still most likely ongoing - her replies will probably be angry, irrational, or even completely out of left field.) The important thing is to let HER know what you are thinking, and how it is all making you feel.

Did you ever find out what she thought was missing in the first place? It's not always safe to assume you know what a person wants or needs - better to get it straight from them, when they are not in a fog. Even that foggy answer can contain glimmers of the truth - you have to listen for it.

I am not sure what you mean by 'sharing your feelings with someone else' - do you mean talking to someone about what is going on? If so - why not a pro-marriage counselor of some sort? Do your parents know that she had an affair? If so, then they would be good ones to talk to...


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## cowboyfan (Nov 15, 2009)

Let me preface this by stressing I'm no expert, I'm just another hapless guy who wandered into this site after my own personal drama. But I believe the best thing you can do right now is make your feelings known to your wife, copy what you wrote on this board and send it to her so she knows how you're feeling! I know personally one of my biggest challenges was communicating my feelings, so she easily minterprested my actions which helped (in part) lead to her indiscretions. Since her EA I've been extremely (probably overly) open with her so she knows exactly what I'm feeling all the time, whether it's anger, fear, depression, etc. She felt a lot of those things as well and had a stronger attachment to the 'other guy' than it sounds like your wife had. 

That helped me at least, just don't be afraid that sharing your feelings will push her away. She needs to share the weight in this situation and from what I read of your previous post you've been doing more than your fare share to make things better. Hope this helps a little, and best of luck to you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She acts like she is in the midst of a full blown PA. 

I am sorry for your pain. Being in the dark is the hardest part. It is a HUGE MISTAKE to directly confront without hard evidence. I have a friend who put a GPS on his wifes car. He hid it on her car. And that showed him clear evidence of her affair - he did follow her one time - to get from clear evidence to 100 percent certainty. He had identified a pattern of travel that he was confident represented the location she was having sex. He went there while she was there and caught her with the OM. 

Once he had that - he gave her a hard choice - end it - commit to total transparency open ended - go NC with the OM. Commit to MC. She declined he immediately filed.



scalpel said:


> I'm back on the board as I have no one in my life that I can share this with. My wife had a brief emotional affair in March. See my earlier thread for the details.
> 
> Since that time I have tried hard to be emotionally available to her - as much as I can. Our sex life improved tremendously, and we took an exciting trip away just the two of us. We have tentative plans to go to Rome for a vacation- which she always wanted to do. I thank the board commenters for helping me realize that would be good for our marriage.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I think it is a mistake to ask her questions at this point. They will be accusatory - but with no evidence she will just get defensive and make you the bad guy.




MEM11363 said:


> She acts like she is in the midst of a full blown PA.
> 
> I am sorry for your pain. Being in the dark is the hardest part. It is a HUGE MISTAKE to directly confront without hard evidence. I have a friend who put a GPS on his wifes car. He hid it on her car. And that showed him clear evidence of her affair - he did follow her one time - to get from clear evidence to 100 percent certainty. He had identified a pattern of travel that he was confident represented the location she was having sex. He went there while she was there and caught her with the OM.
> 
> Once he had that - he gave her a hard choice - end it - commit to total transparency open ended - go NC with the OM. Commit to MC. She declined he immediately filed.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thank you for your replies. It feels like she is having an affair, but I have no proof. I feel like I'm in an echo chamber- only hearing myself. That is why I have reached out to this board again.

She has this idea that my parents have never liked her (after 12 years!), so she begged me not to tell them about her initial indiscretion. I can't talk to them about my feelings. I did mention to my mother, when I was taking care of the kids solo, that she had checked out of family life. A lot of communication has been lost between us, so oftentimes my parents will tell her something about plans and it won't get to me. They may sense something is up.

As far as my next move I am confused. I will install a keylogger on her computer when I can. I have no proof, other than my own loneliness.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Back again. We had an emotional talk last night. She wants to leave me. She says I am unable to enjoy my life. I am boring and she has fallen out of love with me. She envisions a life where she can live apart from me and my family. One of the benefits she sees is only having the children half the time. We have a young daughter that is really tough-my wife feels that she has ruined our lives. Can we make it out of this? She sees living apart from 
me as liberating and making positive choice. I see it as losing my life partner. Am I deluding myself that this might turn out ok in the end?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Move on, you don't want someone who blames her unhappiness on you and your child. No mother would ever say that their child ruined their life, ever.

My wife would kick me to the curb so fast I wouldn't know what happened if it was me or the kids she had to choose. Even though all 3 of my girls are like little monsters from hell sometimes.

And I would do the same also if she ever made me choose.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes, hearing her say those things yesterday shocked me. The story is a little complicated - our daughter is adopted after 3 biological boys. To me my daughter is absolutely precious. She is mine, and will remain so forever. My wife feels like it a cruel joke on her since she pushed the adoption initially and now is so tormented by her behavior.

Frankly I don't know if her anger and lack of love towards me is a reaction to the situation with our daughter or whether she has these feelings towards me separately. I feel like as my daughter's behaviour improves with getting older (she is 2 1/2) ,maybe we can get our marriage back on track. I would hate to put my kids through a divorce that could have been prevented.

On the positive side, one of my colleagues referred me to a good marriage counselor in the area, and I am excited to make our first appointment.

Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

A couple of updates. I went alone to the marriage counselor yesterday. One of those sessions where I just laid everything out on the table. The therapist probably talked about two minutes tops. Recounting it all just made me feel like the doormat that i have become. Next session I'll have to take a breath and let her talk. Hope it is useful. 

It's hard to believe, but when I got home my wife was on her way out to have drink with our friend- who is separated by the way. She said they had drinks at her house and then my wife went to local bar to meet up with her best friend. I put the children to bed and fell asleep myself. When she got home after 10 pm she said her second friend was unable to make it to the bar and she had a drink alone and left. Flash forward to this morning at 3 when I couldn't sleep and I checked her phone log. You guessed it- erased. She must have called her best friend to confirm she wasn't going to make it, right? But no calls. 

Am I being paranoid or just naive again? I feel like asking her about the time at the bar and the phone log, but my instincts just stink right now. I'm at the point where I want to do just the opposite of what I think I ought to do. Anyone else feel the same way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

scalpel said:


> A couple of updates. I went alone to the marriage counselor yesterday. One of those sessions where I just laid everything out on the table. The therapist probably talked about two minutes tops. Recounting it all just made me feel like the doormat that i have become. Next session I'll have to take a breath and let her talk. Hope it is useful.
> 
> It's hard to believe, but when I got home my wife was on her way out to have drink with our friend- who is separated by the way. She said they had drinks at her house and then my wife went to local bar to meet up with her best friend. I put the children to bed and fell asleep myself. When she got home after 10 pm she said her second friend was unable to make it to the bar and she had a drink alone and left. Flash forward to this morning at 3 when I couldn't sleep and I checked her phone log. You guessed it- erased. She must have called her best friend to confirm she wasn't going to make it, right? But no calls.
> 
> ...


my friend asking about the phone logs will do no good as she will simply deny it . Confront her only when you have irrefutable proof , otherwise she will easily manipulate it as if you are being paranoid .


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

I think you are right. I hate being so paranoid. I wonder where she is all the time. Still the erased call log concerns me.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

At this point the phone logs don't matter at all, save your time. She told you she doesn't want to be with you or your child and will be happier by herself. You guys are *finished*...


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> At this point the phone logs don't matter at all, save your time. She told you she doesn't want to be with you or your child and will be happier by herself. You guys are *finished*...


Wow, that's pretty direct advice. Maybe it is a defense mechanism but I feel like she is having a personal crisis. A midlife crisis. Myself and the kids are just caught up in it. Today she is trying to turn the tables on me- saying I am unhappy. That I can't stand to be around her. I asked her what we should do tomorrow since I have to work a few hours in the morning and she blew up. Said I never plan anything. Life is boring. Prior to all of our troubles she didn't care at all whether I was working on the weekend or not. She would be off having fun with the kids and I would just catch up. 

She is withdrawing from me, but I'm not ready to give up. Not by a long shot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Wake up dummy!

Your wife did NOT have an emotional affair back in March, you made it clear in the other thread that she was starting to meet men off the Ashley Madison website. She just wants to be rode hard and put away wet by someone.

The repeated complaint of hers is that you are boring. You've mentioned that about twenty times. What this means is that you are in fact boring to her.

She told you pretty plainly that she wanted to have this exciting trip to Rome. You said no to that. She said it was cheaper than a divorce and you still said no.

She wanted to throw you a big 40th birthday party and you said no to that as well. So instead of having your wife spending a ton of time planning your party and getting all excited about that, you decided to give her nothing to do but look on Ashley Madsion for excitment.

It's Memorial Day weekend, get her out of the house on a big day trip. Go somewhere fun and exciting. Waterpark, movies, whatever. Just DO #*%**ING SOMETHING other than worry about her and your marriage.

Surprise her, date her, spank her.

She's telling you very clearly what she wants from you and you are basically going out of your way to deny it from her. Give her some excitement.

There's nothing wrong with being beta and supporting the kids, but you have like zero alpha. Read my blog, lilnked below for more.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

I've provided a life for her that most people would envy. We get out. She has no money worries. If our life has a predictable pattern that's because we have four kids. Living like a celebrity in a people magazine story is a fantasy. Those people are so happy they kill themselves with drink and drugs. 

If she wrote in and confess to stepping out on her man the commentators would be all over her. I've made her life so damn comfortable all she does is sit around a pine for the next thing that may fill her void. I'm starting to think I'm not the problem- in fact I know I'm not. She's having some existential angst and me and my kids are the collateral damage. 

As far as " rode hard and put away wet"- I do that too. Take your flip advice and shove it. How's that for alpha?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Just read a bit of you blog Atholk. Explains a lot.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

scalpel said:


> Just read a bit of you blog Atholk. Explains a lot.


Not sure if you're saying "oh I get what you're saying now", or "now I'm sure you're an a$$hole".


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Let's just leave it at you and I have wildly different styles.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

scalpel said:


> Let's just leave it at you and I have wildly different styles.


Well it's taken me several years to get to my current viewpoint, so I can understand you feeling it's alien. Give it some time to sink in before rejecting it. I started that blog because so many people on this board asked me too. It's really up to you to decide if you are happy with how things are turning out for your approach to marriage.




scalpel said:


> I've made her life so damn comfortable all she does is sit around a pine for the next thing that may fill her void.


This is how I see your problem in a nutshell. Comfort building is good and important, but if you do nothing do increase attraction building, she will find her romantic interest in you declining.

So maybe I am a jerk, but all I'm doing is telling you what you've already told the board. She is telling you that you are boring her. So just telling you that you are boring her.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

scalpel said:


> Wow, that's pretty direct advice. Maybe it is a defense mechanism but I feel like she is having a personal crisis. A midlife crisis. Myself and the kids are just caught up in it. Today she is trying to turn the tables on me- saying I am unhappy. That I can't stand to be around her. I asked her what we should do tomorrow since I have to work a few hours in the morning and she blew up. Said I never plan anything. Life is boring. Prior to all of our troubles she didn't care at all whether I was working on the weekend or not. She would be off having fun with the kids and I would just catch up.
> 
> She is withdrawing from me, but I'm not ready to give up. Not by a long shot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I purposely gave as direct a reply as possible because it seems like a lot of times feelings can overcomplicate situations. Everything you say about her strikes me as someone who wants out and isn't interested in having emotional sit downs to fix things. I've been in a situation like this where my girlfriend seemed to have checked out and wanted to be single and "free," going out with the girls a lot more and putting that above the relationship. When I got in my "I'm going to do everything in my power to fight for us" mode I think it became a turnoff for her because she wasn't emotionally invested anymore and I became the sappy guy trying to cling on.

I promised myself I'd never do that again. You can't lay all your cards out and fight for someone who won't fight for you. You should take a step back and put your brain over your heart for a second, ask her what she wants to do and act accordingly. You're either going to move forward with each other, move on by breaking it off with each other, or stay together in limbo having these battles for the rest of your lives. Don't put up with anymore BS because you become a doormat.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

You're right. I can't fight for our marriage if she won't. We were talking the other day and I was asking her what exactly she wanted. She wouldn't answer. "Why do we have to talk endlessly?" I answered that if I had known what she wanted prior to her cruising on AM then we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm not a mind reader! Some of the difficulty lies in the way her interests have so radically changed so fast. Before she wanted to improve our house, raise the children well (with my help) and be a partner to me. Now it's me, me, me. She wants out of the house as fast as possible. The minimum of hassle with the kids. Maybe I'm slowing her down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I just realized... "Scalpel". You're a surgeon.

You sure your profession doesn't have something to do with it all?

You probably have long days and she's lonely.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Hey you guessed! My schedule really isn't too bad. I make getting home a priority. I coach little league and soccer. I almost never travel for work. Still the number of divorced MD's in the lounge is staggering. It may play a role, but we got married when I was a resident. That's when the hours were really long.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Yeah, if she survived your residency then your regular schedule is nothing. My dad was going through medical school and residency when I was growing up and I remember how crazy his hours could get sometimes.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Yeah. The sappy guy trying to cling on and not quitting. That was my first week after finding out about the affair and having her leave. Begging, pleading and crying. At first she was affected by it saying, I didn't know you cared so much. But by the end of the week she had hardened. I slowly regained my senses. Only this week did I start taking a non-sappy position. She is following the script. Most of these women say it has been years since they have been in love, yet love their husbands. My wife now has me as the childcare provider. Life is easy. Several years ago I remember saying she did nothing when home but watch tv and eat bon bons. My wife is a "princess" and I learned to live with it. Maybe I was checking out a bit myself. 
So take a look at where you stand. Counselling? Do you hug and/or cuddle when not looking for sex? Do you listen when she talks to you? Almost all of us have failed in these areas. It ain't over 'til its over (divorce). And we don't talk divorce.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

scalpel said:


> I coach little league and soccer.


How is she about that? Does she read it as _"he's working all day then comes home and leaves straight away for sports and ignores me. I don't even get a break in the seasons. This **** is year round."_




scalpel said:


> Still the number of divorced MD's in the lounge is staggering. It may play a role, but we got married when I was a resident. That's when the hours were really long.


Surgeons are second only to psychiatrists in divorce rate in MDs.

You're assuming because she put up with your residency that she'd put up with it all now. In reality she was paying her dues at that time for a future payoff just as you were. It doesn't seem like she likes it as much as you do though. Hence the current dilemma.

Anyway... in one of your threads you mentioned that she's told you she's bored like 6-7 times. That's the problem. She wants you to engage and stimulate her. She's like an unwalked dog.

What's ironic is that you perceive her as the one that's abandoning the relationship and not being willing to work on it. Yet you've told us that she's being trying to get your attention about it for a while now but you haven't been listening.

She probably didn't want "Rome" per se, she probably wanted YOU all to herself for a little bit.


Right now the steps that need to happen is that she needs to break off things with whoever she is seeing, you need to admit that you've been ignoring her, you need marriage counseling together.

Also you should not offer to take the kids from her and have sole custody should you divorce. You should make it clear that she will have to continue mothering your children at least 50/50. No point making it easy for her to walk away. You're just enabling her leaving you for another man if you do.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for all your replies and different viewpoints. A couple of thoughts.

The sports involvement is not excessive and she has generally been very supportive. We are not talking club teams and traveling. 

The idea that surgeons are second to psychiatrists in divorce rates is disturbing, yet both my partners have 30+ year marriage and are very pro family. I have sought out mentors that balanced their work and home lives. The payoff has been everything I ever thought it would be. A home in a good school district and a satisfying job with almost no traveling for work. Of course it's hard to drop my responsibilities and act totally carefree, but it works I think (thought).

Atholk, you are always challenging me! I may be still in the "woe is me" stage of this and it probably comes off as defensive. I think if you met me I would come off as anything but boring. Her initial AM experiment was a bolt from the blue. She's done a lot of changing and hasn't kept me in the loop. As far as not listing to her- I've been available. I've been here committed to this marriage and this family. She is rewriting our history. She's no "unwalked dog" (God I hope you don't say that too often to the couples you counsel!) she wanted a home. Got it. She wanted a family. Got it. She wanted, absolutely had to have a daughter orshe wouldn't be happy. Made it happen. All these things I wanted too, but looking outside our marriage for thrills? Can't do it. Now Im the bad guy? 

Thanks for everyone's houghts and ideas. I need them!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scalpel said:


> You're right. I can't fight for our marriage if she won't.


I definitely disagree with this!

Hire a PI to get proof of her affair - you can afford it, and it may save your marriage.

When you have the proof, tell her and ask her to stop it. If she refuses, tell her mother or father and ask for help. If that does no good, call her other parents and siblings and best friends. Call your parents. Tell them all she's having an affair. Ask them to help you talk to her.

You can't save your marriage while she's involved with another man.

OH, and if you are supporting her, and she is using YOUR money to fund her affair...cut her off! Let HIM pay for everything.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

The rewriting of the marriage history is a pretty common thing.

MD is a harder career choice, but not a marital death penalty.

My feeling is the affair may still be happening, you need to get to the bottom of that. Keylogger her computer (google "Spector Pro" for that) and you may want to tap her cell phone as well. If it's in your name you can legally tap it.

After you get more detail, you can decide things better. Don't blow the cover on the spying too early.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for all your comments. I will try a keylogger.


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

Wow. She is being super clear with you and you have squashed each attempt (you have posted about anyway). I applaud everyone on here trying to knock sense into you, bc wake up man! She craves excitement and you are working as a surgeon and THEN going to coach sports teams??? My son only plays soccer and that takes up 2 evenings and 1 weekend half day out of commission where its all about that... You may think it doesnt take "that much" time away but it obviously does to your wife and that is what matters if you are trying to work things out... NOT what YOU think matters to her. 

I also must thank you excessively for bringing AM to my attention... my lover has made me a better lover to my husband on the rare occassions we actually have sex... I didnt even know something like that existed.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Just started reading this...not sure about all of the history.

I would usually say that "At" often comes on a bit strong, but I think he's right on track in this case.

Your wife is "comfortable" - but don't confuse that with being happy. It sounds like your income has provided her a lifestyle with little responsibility and she's looking to fill that void with some excitement.

That comfort and lack of responsibility are one of the most common "risk factors" for women who have affairs. The ones who are working fulltime and ACTIVELY caring for 2-3 kids don't have the time or energy.

Seems like you are getting a lot of good advice here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> That comfort and lack of responsibility are one of the most common "risk factors" for women who have affairs. The ones who are working fulltime and ACTIVELY caring for 2-3 kids don't have the time or energy.


Wholeheartedly agree! I see it this way more often than any other way!

I often suggest that women who don't have to work outside the home be urged to volunteer somewhere. God knows the world needs more volunteers, and it can really help your marriage in many ways.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

She was an active mother until 5 or 6 months ago. She had a ton of things to do around the house and a lot of repsonsibility. Since then she has changed how she spends her time - she likes to get away from the house and the kids.

This situation with our daughter is really wearing her down. She's burned out. Before we decide to separate I am going to get some help for our daughter and some relief for her as far as childcare. Maybe her tryst was a reaction to this.

I admit I am feeling defensive reading everyone's comments. Not only do I have her rewriting our history, but I have everyone else telling me I drove her into this affair. Sometimes I wonder if I was the cheater would I be greeted with sympathy - "she drove you to it"? Anyways, I can only change myself, and that's what I am here for. Plus you can't beat the price...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

No - you can't beat the price!

There is no excusing your wife for having an affair of any kind. No matter how unhappy she was, there were a lot of different ways for her to have handled this.

What I'm seeing is that your wife tried to literally tell you that she was unhappy and why (bored). So many of us may have gotten subtle hints, but wish we would have been given a direct request ("I need you to be more exciting") before the **** hit the fan.

At some point - after you are sure affair has stopped - you'll need to do some self-examination to determine what you can do to improve things if you want your marriage to work.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

There's no justification for her having an affair, but she was telegraphing her discontent pretty well it seems and you missed that.

If you want a medical metaphor, it's like you're a patient who waited until day 14 post-op to report to the doctor a surgical site that was showing signs of infection on day 2 post-op.

At this point assigning blame is secondary to triage. She needs to break off whatever is going on, you need to communicate that you weren't paying attention, and you both need to get to marriage counseling.


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