# Why Do Spouse Cheat?



## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

This thread is NOT the regular i-state-my-problem-you-give-me-a-solution type. It’s a “conceptual” kind.

It’s focused on helping us better understand this issue of infidelity.

All I want is for you to tell me (from your perspective) why people cheat. At the end, I’m hoping that we’ll expand our individual understanding of the problem. That way, we can help ourselves – and others –better.

So let me start off…

There are 2 main reasons I believe people cheat…

1. *Dedicated cheaters Attitude:* Have you ever heard somebody say to you…

“I just cheated on my wife. I feel good having sex with a woman I'm sexually attracted to.”

“I cheated on my husband and i don’t regret it. And i wouldn't care if he slept with someone else. I do love him though, I just think sex is just sex.”

“I have cheated on my wife so many times with a lot of women over the years. I love her so much but she isn't very good in bed.”

These are the dedicated cheaters. They cheat for the fun of it. 

Right now, I really don’t understand them enough to talk about them. So I will not. Please if you have insights on them, share it.

2. *Low quality relationship:* this is all about how happy (or unhappy) a partner is in a relationship. An unhappy partner is likely to cheat. I see 3 reasons this happens…

i. *The Jealousy factor:* You know the possessive partner? The one who goes through your phone without permission; who gets mad each time you’re out with friends without him/her; who demands to know your whereabouts always; who spits fire any single day you fail to call or text.

This is the jealousy factor at work.

The problem with this is that it prevents real intimacy from happening. It also affects the way your partner see (and feel about) the relationship – and you. It…

- Associates you with negative emotions
- Makes your partner uncomfortable with you and the relationship
- Shows your insecurity and makes them wonder if you’re worth being in a relationship with
- Makes you unattractive. You become a turn off.
-Makes them see NO reason NOT to cheat – after all, you’d accused them of it, whether they do it or not.

ii. *The nice guy (lady) syndrome: * This is a situation where one partner takes responsibility for the happiness of the other.

There are 2 sides to this. *The victim* and *the Savior*

The victims are the typical nagging wife (or girlfriend) or the complaining husband (or boyfriend). They always position themselves as the victims: they ones wronged. They expect their partner to be responsible for their happiness and actions. 

The saviors are your typical Mr. Nice guy (or lady). They’re the type that distributes their partners C.V while s/he just sits on the couch all day. They take responsibility for their partners happiness. 

They believe that if they’re just nice, then they’d get what they want. Usually, they don’t. And this leads to resentment. They avoid conflict like a plague.

Funny enough, the victims and saviors tend to attract each other.

The nice guy syndrome is caused by weak “personal boundaries”.

iii. *Shallow understanding of gender differences: * There are huge psychological differences between men and women – most people don’t know this.

As a result, they tend to love the opposite gender the way they’d love to be loved. Then they get surprised when their love is not appreciated. 

For example…

Women deal with their problems by talking about it. Men deal with theirs by going into their “shell.” They love solving problems on their own.

So a woman may see her man withdraw. She may try to help by getting him to talk. When he refuses her offer, she often feels rejected. If she had known better, she would have realized that leaving him alone is the best way to help him.

Another example…

A woman comes home telling her husband how bad her day went. All she wants is his undivided attention. But most times, he tries to give her solutions. Then he gets confused when she complains that he’s not listening.

If not dealt with, shallow understanding of gender differences can lead to “accumulated resentment” which often kills the fire of love.

So that’s all I know. Please share yours.

You can also react to my posts. Does it bring a memory? Share it. Did it give you new ideas? Share it. Do you object to any part? Share it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Simple


Cheaters have a character issue/flaw. They are the types who put themselves first above all else and that's a common theme you find repeated over and over again here. 

It's not a gender issue with women cheating now as much as men. It's a bad character issue. These types are best to be avoided for any relationship.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* Tony: Your post is pretty complete as is ~ I cannot really argue with any aspect of it!

But I totally agree that cheating largely occurs for a plethora of reasons, all tied in to the rationale of your posting.

But the real and overriding factor in why a spouse chooses to cheat is nothing more than poor marital boundaries as well as a jaded sense of entitlement to cheat. Perhaps they do it because they want to go back and live in their wild, carefree days where multiple sex partners was the norm, or they had become so bored and complacent with the sex being offered up by their spouse, had summarily fallen out of love with them, that finding themselves a covert "piece of strange" became the order of the day, no matter how many hearts were broken or lives were altered in the process!

That is preeminently a question that you would have to pose to the cheater himself. Good luck in getting a satisfactory answer!*


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

tonygunner007 said:


> This thread is NOT the regular i-state-my-problem-you-give-me-a-solution type. It’s a “conceptual” kind.
> 
> It’s focused on helping us better understand this issue of infidelity.
> 
> ...


yep here is a video that explains that example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Simple
> 
> 
> Cheaters have a character issue/flaw. They are the types who put themselves first above all else and that's a common theme you find repeated over and over again here.
> ...


:iagree:

It's really this simple. All of the things you've posted in your OP, Tony, are various excuses.

Many people have dissatisfying marriages. Many either try to resolve or work around the problem, or leave. Those whose character is flawed in a certain way choose to cheat.

Cheating is a choice made by narcissists who feel they are more entitled to happiness than anyone else, and who have no empathy (or even, in some cases, sympathy) for their own spouse and child(ren), and most other people in general.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

You need to frame this question in what it really is. A moral problem not a cause/effect behavioral issue. 

*Narcissism and a lack of moral grounding explains 99% of cheaters. 
*
Every marriage and every person feels unfulfilled at some point in their relationship, yet many do not cheat because it is wrong and hurtful.

You don't need any more words than this to explain it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

As far as I can tell, there are also some people who think divorce is worse for children than cheating, at least as long as they aren't caught. People like this, if they are unhappy in their marriage, may cheat instead of getting a divorce.

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but it seems to explain some of the cases of cheating I'm familiar with.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

technovelist said:


> As far as I can tell, there are also some people who think divorce is worse for children than cheating, at least as long as they aren't caught. People like this, if they are unhappy in their marriage, may cheat instead of getting a divorce.
> 
> I'm not saying this is a good idea, but it seems to explain some of the cases of cheating I'm familiar with.


That's some people's justification for it. But the truth is, finding out one of your parents is capable of being a cheater and a liar is the worst thing for a child of all. And everyone always finds out eventually.

Here's a thought: If you don't want to divorce your spouse because it will hurt your children, don't cheat. Find a way to compromise and get enough satisfaction from your marriage that you don't feel the desire to divorce. If you cannot find that satisfaction after a legitimate effort is made by both parties, divorce is still a better option than cheating until you get caught, and then having to divorce amidst bitter drama and resentment.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

I would add:

3. Good quality relationships. Base attraction coupled with poor boundaries leads to an oppourtinity to cheat. A husband or wife becomes friendly with a coworker, neighbor or other friend and developes friendship which escalates in intensity causing feelings to develop. One on one time increases and possibly flirting and other boundaries are increasingly crossed. They are completely addicted to the other person which lowers the barriers to refuse cheating when an oppourtinity arises. Eventually this repeated boundary crossing will lead to an event where something "just" happens in the moment. They decide to cheat.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

technovelist said:


> As far as I can tell, there are also some people who think divorce is worse for children than cheating, at least as long as they aren't caught. People like this, if they are unhappy in their marriage, may cheat instead of getting a divorce.
> 
> I'm not saying this is a good idea, but it seems to explain some of the cases of cheating I'm familiar with.


Yep...met some of them here and they are all wrong. Cheating is eventually going to come out. And the kids will very likely loose much respect for the cheating parent. 

My two girls were to young to know the truth about what their mother did and how our marriage ended. But they will know one day when I tell them, unless my x comes clean first, and then who knows what they will think of her.

Cheating does hurt children. People who say otherwise are full of it completely. You can't love your children and at the same time disrespecting your spouse, their other parent. Doesn't work that way.


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## letsbenice (Apr 29, 2015)

I don't know why cheating is so common. I can't help but wonder if my sex drive is lacking....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> technovelist said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell, there are also some people who think divorce is worse for children than cheating, at least as long as they aren't caught. People like this, if they are unhappy in their marriage, may cheat instead of getting a divorce.
> ...


* I know that in the case of my rich, skanky XW, her juvenile delinquent kids, all but one dropouts, all landed county court dates, were summarily convicted and all did various jail time in the county lockup for possession and attempted distribution of pot and meth. The skank did nothing to ever deter it by "cutting them off" financially or even throwing them out of the house. All she ever did was to coddle them in our abode, give them money for occasional fixes, and let them bring their worthless dope head friends in where they could smoke weed, ingest "black tar" meth, and swill all of the spirits that they always stole from Mama's liquor cabinet, whenever they caught her away! That and pay hefty defense lawyers fees to try to keep them out of jail ~ but all to no avail!

I threatened to kick their worthless asses for them, but the skank laid the law down on me that, since they were her kids, I couldn't touch them. My primary concern was that I didn't want that crap, nor any of their convict friends anywhere around my sons or even in the house period!

IMHO, Mama Skank degenerated to their level and she came to hate me because I refused to stand alongside her in supporting those lazy-assed louts of hers!

So she ends up hating my guts because of my stance against her kids drug usage and then eventually punishes me by "dropping her drawers" on her road trips with men from her remote past! But I would never find out anything about that until well into our "trial separation!"

Our breakup didn't really effect her worthless kids in any discernible measure other than to evoke joy on their part that I was now out of the picture as their "step-dad!"*


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## kwood (Feb 9, 2015)

I would like to ask a question about cheating. my x seem to be of the understanding that now our boys are older her cheating has not hurt them.they are older they can deal it. even THROUGH it started eight years ago. and I belive people cheat because they have no respect for marriage,no respect for their kids . and they only think about themselfs


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## BXR2511 (May 13, 2015)

As someone who did the cheating.. There really is no reason for it. It doesn't matter how crappy your spouse makes you feel, how horrible they talk to you..The result should never be to stray.. it should be to put your foot down, speak up and communicate about how unhappy you are. I think it ALL comes down to being unhappy for whatever reason.. Happy people don't just go and have affairs. 

When I was happy with my husband nothing could break me away from him. I became unhappy, my communication fell on deaf ears and after years It broke me down and I strayed. However, I should have continued to try and communicate until I was blue in the face and not been a coward. 

I do have to agree that I think its a character flaw. I think that flaw is different on everyone though.. 

I don't agree with the fact that someone who makes the decision to cheat will always cheat.. Especially if they work on that character flaw. People are allowed to make mistakes. If we black listed anyone that ever made a mistake in their relationship no one would ever be in one.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

They are selfish and want to do things that they want to do.

do not think about others. They wanted the A and they had or are having the A. 

It is all about them.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

kwood said:


> I would like to ask a question about cheating. my x seem to be of the understanding that now our boys are older her cheating has not hurt them.they are older they can deal it. even THROUGH it started eight years ago. and I belive people cheat because they have no respect for marriage,no respect for their kids . and they only think about themselfs


* Kwood: Cheating is preeminently about one's ability of satisfying the erotic whims and pleasures of No. 1 ~ a completely self-absorbed and self-serving pastime, all neatly wrapped in an aura of sheer entitlement!*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

kwood said:


> I would like to ask a question about cheating. my x seem to be of the understanding that now our boys are older her cheating has not hurt them.they are older they can deal it. even THROUGH it started eight years ago. and I belive people cheat because they have no respect for marriage,no respect for their kids . and they only think about themselfs


I wouldn't put to much stock into this. It's nothing more than her attempting to downplay and minimize her sh*tty behavior. After all, she's trying to convince herself -- as well as you -- that it's true.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Selfishness.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think everything there can be placed under that category of a low quality relationship. They are all very good reasons why a marriage will be likely to or will definitely fail. Placing them under reasons for cheating is a bit of a stretch, though. You can name any reason under the sun and that would be good enough for someone to cheat. For others, there doesn't have to be a reason. Some men and women just do it because they like sex. So, I have to stay with what I've said before, because anyone who has cheated will have their own personal reasons. They cheated because they wanted to cheat. That's it. That's the bottom line. All the reasons you gave were good reasons for divorce, too. So, the common denominator hasn't been found, except, they wanted to cheat.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Spouse cheat cuz their stupid!

I mean you really have to be phucked up to #1 cheat, feel like shyt the next day and then do it a second time...and they all feel like shyt the next day...the question is why they keep doing it.

So I say waywards are so phucking stupid to find some half @ss justification to keep doing it when the 1st time felt so bad.

All of them (cheaters) know it's bad and they know were "this is going to lead" then they actually commit adultery...and as they get dressed the guilt sets in and the very next day they are sitting in the back set of a car or standing at the front desk getting ready to do it all over again?????


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## musk-rat (Mar 10, 2015)

Selfishness and entitlement. 
My WW told me before that first kiss she said to her self, "I am going to do this, it is not going to lead anywhere and I am going to get away with it." Did not work-out so well for her.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

It's never just one reason. It's usually a whole host of them put together.

In my case, my ex wife had low moral boundaries due to her upbringing, self esteem, etc. She fell in love with me because I was the first man to show her respect and not treat her poorly, imo.

All well and good until she lost weight, hit the gym, gained a lot of confidence about her body (which she never had before) and a whole new class of man was hitting on her. It went to her head BIG TIME. Coming home to her average Joe husband after getting propositioned by guys with 6-packs on a daily basis? Not good for me.

She became the type of person who, if she was like this at the time we met, wouldn't have given me the time of day.

She built up a lot of resentment towards me over the years because I was average, and she was now a "9" or a "10", capable of landing similar types of men.

Where she once viewed me as sexually attractive, she no longer did. No six pack abs here, no defined muscles, and I didn't wax my chest, I guess.

So, selfish reasons, mainly. And low moral boundaries. And self-esteem issues from the get-go. She entered a new class and she knew it.

If she didn't lose that weight (which happened accidentally, due to a job change), we'd probably still be together and she'd have been as happy as she was with me at that point. We were great together, for a long long time. An almost perfect relationship, imo. But when you have major self esteem issues and you do something like lose weight and get fit, it's easy to decide that you can "do better".


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I can only speak of my situation best, why my WW cheated, what were the causes, and why she did cheat. The marriage per-affair was bad, fixable, but bad. I own my part in the marriage being bad, the cheating is solely on her. But I know our situation, I know I shut her out, I now understand why she felt our marriage was over. It has taken many hours in therapy and self reflecting to truly understand her mindset. The correct choice to make was divorce, but she, just like me now, hold out hope that this marriage will work. WW thought the marriage was over and in stepped the OM, she should have divorced, but that small amount of hope remained within her. 

My WW has always stated she never set out to have an affair, I believe her. She thought OM was a friend, she slowly confided in the OM. Of course we all know where this leads, but I see the situation she was in, the pain she was in, the hope she still had. Trust me when I say these are not excuses, she still made the incorrect choice, but I ask myself what if our marriage was stronger? My WW never displayed this type of behavior, ever. It hurts me that we let our marriage crumble to ruins, it hurts me she ever met the OM, it hurts me that I shut her out, it destroyed me with the choice she made. Not everyone in a bad marriage cheats, I didn't, but I also didn't meet anyone who actively pursued me for a relationship. I still wouldn't have chosen to cheat and I'm devastated my WW made that choice, but perhaps she is weaker then I. 

So why did she cheat? Many reasons that all came together to ruin my life as I knew it. Some days for me are bad, some good, I just try to reconcile with ME first, fix myself to be a healthy person. Then repair my marriage, communicate everything to my WW, and try to be vulnerable. Some people can only divorce over infidelity, some try to reconcile, some sit in limbo, some rug sweep. Each person is different, each has their own reaction, each is just trying to find a way to live life to the fullest. Now before you all start swinging the 2X4's this is my situation, my opinion, my path to recovery. I have examined each path and this is the best for me, and I understand its not the path for everyone. I am simply a man that knows what my past mistakes and shortcomings are, I am working on myself and have a long way to go, but each day I try to find my goal of peace and happiness. I may not find it today, or tomorrow, or in this marriage, but I don't turn my back if it gets difficult, I don't take the easy way, I take the path the best suits what is best for me and my family.

I assume each and every person here is wanting a good marriage and to have peace and happiness in their lives. It won't come and knock on your door and present itself to you. It's a search of two people finding common ground and sharing their love for one another. It's waking up each day and looking next to you and smiling because of who is laying next to you. It's about being everything for your kids, creating memories that you will cherish. It's about finding yourself in a storm, and finding happiness within yourself to spread to those around you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

To me, there are several types of betrayers.

Some, the very few, do so out of a truly terrible relationship. A way of escape, I suppose. They haven't the right mind to address the situation, so they escape into betrayal. 

For others, it's simply the thrill of it. Like an addiction. It matters not how much they are loved. 

The third type to me do so because they can. It's more betraying because no one stops them from doing so. 

And a small percentage do so just to hurt others as this is how they justify their crappy life.

However, many people do not betray. That tells me that betrayal is always a choice a person makes. There are no excuses.


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## kwood (Feb 9, 2015)

I understnad that a lot of people cheat because they are unhappy. But what if they tell you they are unhappy, you do your veary best to be the way they want you to be and they still cheat, and what about if you have been cheated more then once. How do you ever get close to that person again .do you want to get close only to get hurt again. What happend to for better or worse when you made your marriage vowes. It was not as long as iam happy. I belive that the it happend because i was not getting what i needed out of the marriage is crap you made vowes you work your ass of to keep them if you are any kind of person at all


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

kwood said:


> I understnad that a lot of people cheat because they are unhappy. But what if they tell you they are unhappy, you do your veary best to be the way they want you to be and they still cheat, and what about if you have been cheated more then once. How do you ever get close to that person again .do you want to get close only to get hurt again. What happend to for better or worse when you made your marriage vowes. It was not as long as iam happy. I belive that the it happend because i was not getting what i needed out of the marriage is crap you made vowes you work your ass of to keep them if you are any kind of person at all



In my case she did, miscarriage happened and I focused on her, shutting her out of my feelings and emotions. Basically pushing her out. But her choice to correct the problem was still wrong, OM and the miscarriage certainly didn't help either. The correct choice was divorce, staying true to your vows and maybe I would have reacted to her pleas. But we will never know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

This is one of the hardest questions for me, Because we had a good marriage. We were best friends we did everything together until OW came along. Every time I ask him why? He says he honestly don't know. He was happy. It just happened. I can't understand how something can just happen over & over for 6 months. That I know of. 

If you're happy why would you put yourself in a position for something to happen? I had opportunity's, But never even considered it. I will wander for the rest of my life, WHY? if you're happy & have more than you can handle at home. I would really like to know the answer..


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Devastated an lost said:


> This is one of the hardest questions for me, Because we had a good marriage. We were best friends we did everything together until OW came along. Every time I ask him why? He says he honestly don't know. He was happy. It just happened. I can't understand how something can just happen over & over for 6 months. That I know of.
> 
> If you're happy why would you put yourself in a position for something to happen? I had opportunity's, But never even considered it. I will wander for the rest of my life, WHY? if you're happy & have more than you can handle at home. I would really like to know the answer..


He did because he could, it seems to me. There was no one to stop him and he apparently wasn't close enough to you to make himself stop. To me, these are the cold blooded betrayers. The next time he can, he probably will if it's a good opportunity.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Are the reasons people have sex the same as the reasons they have extramarital relation?

The only fundamentally different one is to destroy a marriage. This may or may not be conscious and intentional.

Some cheaters love their spouses but are bored.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Some cheaters love their spouses but are bored.


Just a personal opinion, but I maintain no one can actually love another and brutally betray them. I mean, nothing says 'I love you" like having sex with someone else other than ones spouse.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

LongWalk said:


> Are the reasons people have sex the same as the reasons they have extramarital relation?
> 
> The only fundamentally different one is to destroy a marriage. This may or may not be conscious and intentional.
> 
> Some cheaters love their spouses but are bored.


It's either purely about sex, or purely about emotion, but rarely both. You're not getting one or the other in the marriage, so you find it elsewhere.

Theoretically speaking, marital sex is supposed to be both emotional and physical. Not always the case, but it should be.

The people who step out are the ones who are, imo, not capable of one or the other, and the one they are capable of has disappeared. So for example, if sex to one person is purely emotional and loving, and the physical aspect of it is a non-issue, then when the emotion and love goes away, they seek it elsewhere. And vice versa - if sex is purely about sex, and has no emotional/love aspect to it, then when the sex gets bad or boring, they seek it elsewhere.

When you have a healthy balance of the two it's more than enough to keep you honest.

Just my opinion, but it's based a little bit on my past experiences. My ex wife, for example, was a loving/emotional sex partner. It was rarely about physical release for her. Once that left her, sex was just something she'd do with no particular benefit for her. My current wife is the opposite - it's more about the physical for her, less about the closeness and the bond. "Making love" isn't in her vocabulary. "F*** me" is.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

I’ve been following your posts. The more I think about them, the more questions pup up.

For example, wolf1974 said character flaw/issue is the cause. But surveys show that 1 out of 4 marriages in America has dealt with infidelity at some point – and that’s for respondents who were honest enough. What if we add cheaters who’ve not been caught – or suspected? Does it mean that almost half of American couples have character flaws? If yes, then we have a psycho-epidemic. Now, what specific flaw is this?

Harrybrown mentioned selfishness. Of cause there’s an element of selfishness in a cheater. Yes. Selfishness plays a role. But is selfishness ultimately the cause? And when you think about it, we’re all selfish. Even our decision to marry someone is (supposed to be) a selfish one – for our happiness. So IMHO, selfishness in and of itself is not bad. It’s what we do with it that is bad – or good.

Nomorebeans said choice by a narcist. And I agree. It is way easier for a narcist to make that decision. After all, they hardly think about anybody else. But I’ve seen nice people cheat. So IMHO, it goes beyond narcism. 

The one that struck me most was arbitrator’s post. Especially the part he talked about boring sex life and falling out of love. Come to think of it, infidelity has to do with sex/emotional expression. That means if something is wrong in a couples sex/love life, the tendency for infidelity gets higher IMHO, that is when they start missing their single lifestyle – and the freedom it gave them. 

I taught arbritrator has given me all the answers till I read Devastated-an-lost’s story. And I’ve seen marriages like that. Everybody seems happy. All of a sudden, one partner cheats and can’t say why.

So why does this happen?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> Now, what specific flaw is this?


Integrity. It's a throw away world. We don't hold onto things long. They break, get old, or become unpopular and we get something new and exciting. We don't really understand what it means to be loyal for life. 

In reality, we don't have to do that, but when we believe everything we do has little meaning, we don't really consider our commitments to be forever. That's not a word in our vocabulary any more. We have many more choices today. Those who have not learned that, or have not taken advantage of those choices, are the ones who are hurt the most, imo.

I want to say it has something to do with getting almost anything we want a children, but I wonder about poorer countries' infidelity statistics?

Alex made a pretty good assessment, but there really is no one answer. It would be impossible for some to admit their personal reasons for infidelity, since they would seem very selfish and uncaring about the one person they professed publicly to love. It would mean they blatantly lied and would wonder if they would be ostricized. I think the devastation of that is the reason for excuses. Peer pressure is a factor. Many don't want to be left behind. They aren't sure what to do and decide infidelity is a huge eye opener or the destruction of the marriage. They figure they have nothing to lose. Others, just don't really care and believe their spouse doesn't really care either. If the love their spouse feels is not represented to them in actions they know to be love, the unfaithful spouse will not believe they are loved. 

There are as many reasons as individuals. I would guess the bottom line is that most don't believe they are loved. I don't think there really is one answer, though I would be happy to believe there is.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Integrity. It's a throw away world. We don't hold onto things long. They break, get old, or become unpopular and we get something new and exciting. We don't really understand what it means to be loyal for life.
> 
> In reality, we don't have to do that, but when we believe everything we do has little meaning, we don't really consider our commitments to be forever. That's not a word in our vocabulary any more. We have many more choices today. Those who have not learned that, or have not taken advantage of those choices, are the ones who are hurt the most, imo.
> 
> ...


2ntnuf you have stated IMHO the heart of this thread. First the lack of integrity. Some waywards must think marriage vows come with a disclaimer. Forsake all others......... unless something better comes along. Maybe WS lack maturity to understand that marriage vows aren't for when things are great or the romance phase hasn't lost its luster. It's for the times when the marriage may be overwhelmed for whatever the reasons (the kids, finances, family problems, health problems, etc...). Perhaps some people go into marriage without the maturity needed to weather the "storms". Instead of coming together the WS turns to a OM/OW.

You pointed out cheaters would have a hard time admitting to being selfish. Yet that is the very point of the whole thing. The opposite of love is not hate it is being selfish. If you pledge to forsake all others yet cheat then one is putting their own "wants" before the marriage. You cannot love someone the same time as you betray them.

After being cheated on and seeing others I know who have cheated on their spouses I have come to the conclusion that some people just aren't cut out for marriage. The lack the maturity, the integrity and the ability to truly love their spouse. Are there bad marriages out there that can't be fixed? Yep but IMHO there is never a reason to turn to cheating. If you are truly in a bad marriage there are more and better options than giving into to infidelity.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Re: Why Do Spouse Cheat?*



tonygunner007 said:


> I’ve been following your posts. The more I think about them, the more questions pup up.
> 
> For example, wolf1974 said character flaw/issue is the cause. But surveys show that 1 out of 4 marriages in America has dealt with infidelity at some point – and that’s for respondents who were honest enough. What if we add cheaters who’ve not been caught – or suspected? Does it mean that almost half of American couples have character flaws? If yes, then we have a psycho-epidemic. Now, what specific flaw is this?
> 
> ...


But why would a boring sex life and falling out of love trigger destruction of other people's lives, extensive betrayal and lies?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Maybe they figure it's easier to forgive than to get permission, or something like that?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The judgement on WS is harsh on TAM. I have trouble with that, because I see every person as a potential sinner. Maybe not now and here, but in the next relation in the future the BS may become a WS.

If you want to learn about reasons of evil, see the history of nazi Germany. Or the torturing in case of the water-boarding...

Everybody seems to be able to do evil. So why not in marriage, why not in cheating? It is only a matter of circumstances I am afraid.

All the speaking from moral high ground is vain imho.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The judgement on WS is harsh on TAM. I have trouble with that, because I see every person as a potential sinner. Maybe not now and here, but in the next relation in the future the BS may become a WS.
> 
> If you want to learn about reasons of evil, see the history of nazi Germany. Or the torturing in case of the water-boarding...
> 
> ...


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

It is selfishness in my opinion as well, but with the caveat that it is selfishness borne out of not being marriage material. Some have called it a character flaw. I do not see it as a flaw, but a type. There are some in this world that are simply not designed for monogamy. Unfortunately, if they do not have a healthy sense of self or if they have many external factors pressuring them to marry or be monogamous, they will unfortunately end up hurting at least one person.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


>


Cultural differences make me not understand your point. But from your other reactions I get not the impression this is about open minded thinking.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Cultural differences make me not understand your point. But from your other reactions I get not the impression this is about open minded thinking.


I think you are absolutely correct. It is about those who believe they have been hurt and/or harmed by infidelity. You are in the other camp. Infidelity doesn't mean all that much to you. You can take it or leave it. Many folks are like that. It's not wrong for them. It's wrong for those who think differently. How those who think differently believe, is not wrong either. Though we keep trying to convince each other, the opposite are wrong. 

And that my friend, is an open-minded post.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

In order for one to have morals, integrity, empathy and character one must reach a level of maturity wherein those traits become part of the psyche. Until that level is reached, these are abstract concepts not fully understood and impossible to implement with any degree of consistency or regularity. Because of our societal "advances" and the removal of challenge (hardships and difficulties), which cause maturity to occur, we are devolving as a culture and have become a nation (world) of chronologically adult children.

The body grows and matures when fed. The cells take in nutrients and divide causing growth, Likewise the mind needs "food" in order to develop synaptic connections and fully develop its neural network. Challenge is that food and without it the mind is forever retarded in its development. The result is children walking around in adult bodies, just look around you for all the evidence you could ever need.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> *The judgement on WS is harsh on TAM. I have trouble with that, because I see every person as a potential sinner. Maybe not now and here, but in the next relation in the future the BS may become a WS.
> 
> If you want to learn about reasons of evil, see the history of nazi Germany. Or the torturing in case of the water-boarding...
> 
> ...


* I greatly beg to differ with your comparative analogy, as Nazi Germany was little more than a group of political thugs with warped sub-human ideologies, who by coming into political power, was able to carry out the wishes and desires of those select few who were preeminently at the very apex of their food chain. To even vaguely cite Nazi Germany's atrocious, criminal, and inauspicious rise to power ~ to the subject of marital infidelity is much like trying to mix oranges, bananas, apples, and prickly pears!

Without intentionally getting into a theological debate about "the fall of mankind," I will only minutely give lip service to that by simply saying that from the Christian perspective, we are all sinners born into a world of sin, all having come short of the glory of God; but it is up to each and every one of us as to how to effectively deal with that. Biblically speaking, there is "an available plan" as to how we can accomplish that ~ that offers us outright forgiveness for that original sin.

That being said, if mankind is so prone to sin and inequity, then why should we have marital vows in the first place? If we know that we have the propensity to cheat, and then summarily commit to those vows before our spouse in the presence of God, the Church, the clergy, the magistrates, our families, friends, and community ~ then much like cheating on our spouse, the act thereof is not only a physical violation of those vows, but also makes us liars in that we have violated our own words in promising to keep those vows.

And the person who knowingly accommodates the destruction of those vows through actively participating as a party to that infidelity is equally held to blame!

If this self-justifying of having sex outside of committed marriages and relationships is to be the new norm, then why don't we just do away with marital vows so we can go off and live like the lower life forms in that we can have sex with whomever it is that we please, fully knowing that there would be absolution for it without the added sin of having to lie about the subsequent breaking of that vow?

If that is the wave of the future, I think that I'd rather not want to be a part of it, because my unwavering pledge of faith and fidelity to the one I love and so choose to extend it to, just means way too much to me. There is something so very sacred there, when I can lovingly and trustingly look into the eyes of the person that I am making a promise to and letting them know in no uncertain terms, that I will love them and only them, and feeling that like and equal reciprocity back from them!*


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*Why?*

Who really knows? Maybe "_Death Rays from Mars_"?

But since you asked, I think I will go with Character Flaw root cause. But, that's the just the shove to get the ball rolling. In my fWW case, it was the Slippery Slope that eventually led to the Hotel-No-Tell. 

Mid forty, she gets fit (gym), kids going to college, new younger friends, starts to dress more attractive, hair, makeup... and she gets noticed, a lot. (perfect storm) if you will. She wants validation, and she gets it, just not from me (my bad). 

Ah that Character Flaw... maybe a sense of Entitlement, I deserve to be Happy, I deserve Better, I deserve to be Respected. I...
Throw in some Justification, a little History re-write and a willing AP to "_feed the flaw_" and you got a cheater in the making.

Who knows? In retrospect, I may be leaning towards the "_Death Rays_".


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The question may really be: why don't more people cheat? Looking at the world and all the conflict, bias, stupidity, repression, discrimination, hatred, and self-serving behaviors, it is obvious that most human beings are not rational or ethical, and largely driven by self-serving motivations. That's human nature, and it's messy and complicated.

We may aspire to higher ideals, but few really are successful consistently. I'm actually impressed that many people do so well and try to have integrity.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

People are different and therefore cheat for different reasons.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Although I do not ascribe to any religious doctrine I do find truth and wisdom in the Bible. As mentioned above, we are all born into sin because we are all born immature and underdeveloped. As(if) we grow and mature, we leave our "sinful" ways behind and move towards reason, logic and rationale. The problem arises from the fact that in order to grow intellectually we need challenge(s). Absent them we remain "sinners".

God, salvation = Intellect, intelligence
Satan, sin = Stupidity


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> * I greatly beg to differ with your comparative analogy, as Nazi Germany was little more than a group of political thugs with warped sub-human ideologies, who by coming into political power, was able to carry out the wishes and desires of those select few who were preeminently at the very apex of their food chain. To even vaguely cite Nazi Germany's atrocious, criminal, and inauspicious rise to power ~ to the subject of marital infidelity is much like trying to mix oranges, bananas, apples, and prickly pears!
> 
> Without intentionally getting into a theological debate about "the fall of mankind," I will only minutely give lip service to that by simply saying that from the Christian perspective, we are all sinners born into a world of sin, all having come short of the glory of God; but it is up to each and every one of us as to how to effectively deal with that. Biblically speaking, there is "an available plan" as to how we can accomplish that ~ that offers us outright forgiveness for that original sin.
> 
> ...


*

Nazi Germany is the perfect showcase, it were people like you and me creating hell on earth for minorities and protesters and anyone not obeing the rules. People died als for their opinions. The 'why' is key to learn about ourselves.

For the rest: you misunderstood that I also very much against cheating, but projecting the sin as the identity of the sinner is wrong. But you are free to differ of opinion.*


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Nazi Germany is the perfect showcase, it were people like you and me creating hell on earth for minorities and protesters and anyone not obeing the rules. People died als for their opinions. The 'why' is key to learn about ourselves.
> 
> For the rest: you misunderstood that I also very much against cheating, but projecting the sin as the identity of the sinner is wrong. But you are free to differ of opinion.


A large part of our identities is based on how we act. The problem with cheaters is that they most often project, rationalize, minimize and justify their actions. Black is white and white is black. They act as if "it was wrong" but yet someone it's still "okay" because they did it and it was not done to them. Most don't seek to learn about themselves, they just stay stuck in a world of delirium and bring down everyone else with them until they and/or others hit rock bottom. 

Sin is not an abstract concept. It relates to how we deal with ourselves, how we treat others and how we lose touch with our higher values for base rewards. It's the suppression of conscientiousness and compassion for self-gratification and benefits that weren't earned through any merit. Sin is not healthy, it's degradation of self. Not being sinful doesn't mean you have to be a prude in life, but it does ask that you not be destructive to yourself and others. And if you sin, then truly try to redeem yourself. Most cheaters either don't or can't do that. Their judgment is clouded and short-sighted. I don't believe in the devil, but the analogy is clear: the devil first appears as a friend, someone who can gain your trust and lead to you believe he or she supports what is "good for you". The devil doesn't care about what's really good for you, he only cares about what is good for himself. And he wants you to lead your life like him. That's the way I see it.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> I don't believe in the devil, but the analogy is clear: the devil first appears as a friend, someone who can gain your trust and lead to you believe he or she supports what is "good for you". The devil doesn't care about what's really good for you, he only cares about what is good for himself. And he wants you to lead your life like him. That's the way I see it.


You just described my dad.

In any case, I cheated and I'm not saying it was right because it wasn't but I had my reasons. I didn't just cheat out of the blue. People are complex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> *The question may really be: why don't more people cheat? Looking at the world and all the conflict, bias, stupidity, repression, discrimination, hatred, and self-serving behaviors, it is obvious that most human beings are not rational or ethical, and largely driven by self-serving motivations. That's human nature, and it's messy and complicated.
> 
> We may aspire to higher ideals, but few really are successful consistently. I'm actually impressed that many people do so well and try to have integrity.*


* I really think that more people are already engaged in cheating than ever before!

I truly believe that if you will carefully take the time to analyze/scrutinize longtime statistics regarding overall marital infidelity, say just over the past century; and coupled with much better employment resources for women, and along with our ever growing and advanced methods of secretive communications; and whereas cheating was once deemed to be a game that was primarily played by the members of the "boys club"; I really think that one can safely rationalize that the practice of cheating itself has not only escalated by sheer leaps and bounds over the years, but I think it would even be safer to say that our married female counterparts have by now, at least equalled, if not, surpassed their male counterparts in actively playing that sordid game!*


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> * I really think that more people are already engaged in cheating than ever before!
> 
> I truly believe that if you will carefully take the time to analyze/scrutinize longtime statistics regarding overall marital infidelity, say just over the past century; and coupled with much better employment resources for women, and along with our ever growing and advanced methods of secretive communications; and whereas cheating was once deemed to be a game that was primarily played by the members of the "boys club"; I really think that one can safely rationalize that the practice of cheating itself has not only escalated by sheer leaps and bounds over the years, but I think it would even be safer to say that our married female counterparts have by now, at least equalled, if not, surpassed their male counterparts in actively playing that sordid game!*


Familiarity breeds contempt. 

Idle hands are the devil's workshop.

Ability is worthless without opportunity.

In any case, I sort of agree. I think, though, the statistics are really screwed, ah, skewed, sorry. I think many folks today don't think what they are doing is unfaithful, and therefore don't consider themselves as a part of the statistics.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> arbitrator said:
> 
> 
> > * I really think that more people are already engaged in cheating than ever before!
> ...


* There is literally a ton of truth in your post there, 2-Man!

Seems like self-serving justification reigns supreme with that sordid segment of society, all while they don't really give a rat's a$$ who knows, albeit God, their family, their co-workers, their neighbor, their clergy, their community, whoever... just so long as it isn't their spouse!*


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> That's some people's justification for it. But the truth is, finding out one of your parents is capable of being a cheater and a liar is the worst thing for a child of all. And everyone always finds out eventually.
> 
> Here's a thought: If you don't want to divorce your spouse because it will hurt your children, don't cheat. Find a way to compromise and get enough satisfaction from your marriage that you don't feel the desire to divorce. If you cannot find that satisfaction after a legitimate effort is made by both parties, divorce is still a better option than cheating until you get caught, and then having to divorce amidst bitter drama and resentment.


I don't see how you can say that everyone finds out eventually. Obviously if NO one finds about it, how would anyone know it happened?

Please don't think I'm defending cheating; I'm against it. I'm just trying to answer the original question.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The judgement on WS is harsh on TAM. I have trouble with that, because *I see every person as a potential sinner*. Maybe not now and here, but in the next relation in the future the BS may become a WS.
> 
> If you want to learn about reasons of evil, see the history of nazi Germany. Or the torturing in case of the water-boarding...
> 
> ...


The constraints you place upon yourself, the boundaries that constitute character, are less flexible than you postulate. I thought about having a PA when my marriage was failing, but I came to realize I would not be able to live with myself. 

A partner who cannot betray has great difficulty understanding the partner that did. Early on, we project aspects of ourselves on to our partners. I saw my WW as someone who valued fidelity because I needed her to be that way. Projections always erode over time, and we see our partner for who they are as opposed to who we need them to be. 

Partners cheat because they value their unmet needs more than their personal integrity and their partner's trust combined. The equation is that simple.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Jung_admirer said:


> The constraints you place upon yourself, the boundaries that constitute character, are less flexible than you postulate. I thought about having a PA when my marriage was failing, but I came to realize I would not be able to live with myself.
> 
> A partner who cannot betray has great difficulty understanding the partner that did. Early on, we project aspects of ourselves on to our partners. I saw my WW as someone who valued fidelity because I needed her to be that way. Projections always erode over time, and we see our partner for who they are as opposed to who we need them to be.
> 
> *Partners cheat because they value their unmet needs more than their personal integrity and their partner's trust combined.* The equation is that simple.


This was really insightful. Really liked that next to last sentence.

I have to think hard about that sentence, because it may be why I didn't care to fight for her, and also partly why I hurt so badly. She valued sex with some random guy, more than she valued herself and my trust. That trust took a hell of a lot of work to achieve. It would send a statement to me about who I am and that who I think I am is worthless. Worthless because I believed she loved me and I was worthy of great love at that time. Hmm..darn you for making me think.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> This was really insightful. Really liked that next to last sentence.
> 
> I have to think hard about that sentence, because it may be why I didn't care to fight for her, and also partly why I hurt so badly. She valued sex with some random guy, more than she valued herself and my trust. That trust took a hell of a lot of work to achieve. It would send a statement to me about who I am and that who I think I am is worthless. Worthless because I believed she loved me and I was worthy of great love at that time. Hmm..darn you for making me think.


What your partner values says nothing about you. You are worthy now as you were then and her actions speak only for herself. Try not to carry the bricks of her betrayal. The "heavy lifting" is her burden alone.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Why? Greed, indifference, thinking that is so skewed that it defies the logic of a normal person, sexual abuse as a child (not in all cases, but in a significant number) drunken stupidity, revenge. Etc.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

This is why I have some difficulty with people using the word insecure. I am fully cognizant of what I am capable of and have no doubts in my abilities. My W however is where the issue lies.

How can one be fully secure in the behavior of another unless there is a knowing that transcends the normal. If I were in a relationship with myself, I would have no doubts whatsoever and would have complete confidence. I would not need faith or trust because I would know.

This is what my W has had in our time together. I, on the other hand, have not had the privilege of experiencing that as yet. I would like to know that before I leave this planet but it seems doubtful at this time that I will.

To know someone of impeccable integrity and strength of character, not that they would not cheat but rather could not, no more than they could fly or breath water, it simply would not be possible for them. That, I fear, is a level of maturity that very few on planet Earth have attained.

So then, is the insecurity one feels a result of their insufficiency or someone else's and if it is the fault of someone else, is insecurity the correct word? An intriguing question.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NoChoice said:


> This is why I have some difficulty with people using the word insecure. I am fully cognizant of what I am capable of and have no doubts in my abilities. My W however is where the issue lies.
> 
> How can one be fully secure in the behavior of another unless there is a knowing that transcends the normal. If I were in a relationship with myself, I would have no doubts whatsoever and would have complete confidence. I would not need faith or trust because I would know.
> 
> ...


I don't think I know everything about myself. I have changed more than I thought I ever could, since she left. Environment and experience changed me to some extent. In certain areas, I don't really know myself any more. I found this out through having to live a little more than I was, and not being able to do things that I used to do. Anxiety attacks or panic attacks are now a part of my life, where they were not a prominent feature before. So, I don't think I know myself completely. I don't think it's possible. 

However, and this is a big one, I really believe we cannot know anyone better than we know ourselves. l think the trust, when not a part of a mental illness, is in direct relation to how well we know the person from what they do in connection with what they say. I also think that our own insecurity is magnified more, the less we know ourselves. 

I think insecurity can be only related to how well we know ourselves, and the amount of confidence we have in our ability to handle changes.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> You just described my dad.
> 
> In any case, I cheated and I'm not saying it was right because it wasn't but I had my reasons. I didn't just cheat out of the blue. *People are complex.*


I hate this phrase. No offense, but I think cheating is a sign of weakness of spirit. If you want to say that cheating was an extremely horrible way of coping with your issues ("period."), then I'd accept that. Not that you have to prove anything to me, but anything else is just the fluff people use to put cheating in some murky grey zone of morality. It's just one more cop out so often bandied about.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> I hate this phrase. No offense, but I think cheating is a sign of weakness of spirit. If you want to say that cheating was an extremely horrible way of coping with your issues ("period."), then I'd accept that. Not that you have to prove anything to me, but anything else is just the fluff people use to put cheating in some murky grey zone of morality. It's just one more cop out so often bandied about.


Cheating was a horrible way to cope with my issues. At the time it did seem like a good idea.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> Cheating was a horrible way to cope with my issues. *At the time it did seem like a good idea.*


What adjectives would you use to describe what you felt during your affair?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> What adjectives would you use to describe what you felt during your affair?


It's really tough to get a public answer to this type of question. The answers would open her up to attacks and ridicule. This is a great question and I would love to read the answers. However, I think any truthful answer would justify the beliefs of a BS and crush almost all attempts at R for most couples. I think the few who would make it would be those who can both relate to the feelings during an affair.

In any case, being I don't believe you will get a public answer, I wanted to answer it from the standpoint of my life and things I've done. Edit: Infidelity was not one of them.

The things I've done that many, if not most would believe are morally wrong, at the time, caused feelings of relief, justification, validation, exhilaration, a heightened sense of awareness and feelings of being a part of something. Most of these were utterly wrong and disappointing in the long run. They added to the layers of denial and false beliefs that led to the original actions. Guilt and remorse ensued once the adrenaline rush and peer pressure left. My mistakes became more obvious as did my responsibility, though I did my best to repress those feelings and thoughts. 

That didn't mean the previous actions would stop, just because I felt remorse. It would take constant vigilance, some education and understanding of my personal limitations to change. And, even then there was no guarantee, since using the excuse of being a human tends to describe both sides of that fence, both the moral and immoral sides, if I may use those terms. 

Anyway, that's enough for now. I could go on, but I don't think it would be worth the extended effort and emotional cost.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

It's an anonymous forum. She and others have the ability to state the things they really felt. Maybe her A was more "fulfilling" than "exhilarating". Or "degrading" versus "liberating".


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> It's really tough to get a public answer to this type of question. The answers would open her up to attacks and ridicule. This is a great question and I would love to read the answers. However, I think any truthful answer would justify the beliefs of a BS and crush almost all attempts at R for most couples. I think the few who would make it would be those who can both relate to the feelings during an affair.
> 
> In any case, being I don't believe you will get a public answer, I wanted to answer it from the standpoint of my life and things I've done. Edit: Infidelity was not one of them.
> 
> ...


You are correct. To reveal too much of the "good" feelings about the affair would cause all the people on the forum who have been cheated on to attack me. I don't need that type of aggravation.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> It's really tough to get a public answer to this type of question. The answers would open her up to attacks and ridicule. This is a great question and I would love to read the answers. However, I think any truthful answer would justify the beliefs of a BS and crush almost all attempts at R for most couples. I think the few who would make it would be those who can both relate to the feelings during an affair.
> 
> In any case, being I don't believe you will get a public answer, I wanted to answer it from the standpoint of my life and things I've done. Edit: Infidelity was not one of them.
> 
> ...


I had to come back and add these comments. I doubt my second wife would ever see this, but the reasons I acted like I didn't care or know at least something about her affairs were due to the above truthful statements about knowing myself and my own failings, how difficult it is to deal with feelings and then understand and accept our responsibilities without blaming others.

Yes, I did care and love greatly with more understanding than she ever could fathom. I just couldn't address it with her because it would have given validation to what I knew to be true and deeply hurt me and in the end, cause me to feel like even less of the man I thought she wanted at the time. Some physically, mentally, emotionally powerful male who was able to command great amounts of respect while being physically superior with an ability to back with violence what they expressed verbally. 

No, I was never that man in reality, I just tried to play his sidekick in real life. After all, the humanity with which you ascribe your reasons for infidelity are the exact ones you refused to accept in the man you married. I can't believe how hypocritical that feels to me. Yes, me, the man who isn't as "sexually liberated" as you. 

Just read that term today and had to use it. What nerd, huh? I am many things, some good and some bad. Hope this helps some BS and WS trying to understand. It felt liberating, though a bit taxing.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> I had to come back and add these comments. I doubt my second wife would ever see this, but the reasons I acted like I didn't care or know at least something about her affairs were due to the above truthful statements about knowing myself and my own failings, how difficult it is to deal with feelings and then understand and accept our responsibilities without blaming others.
> 
> Yes, I did care and love greatly with more understanding than she ever could fathom. I just couldn't address it with her because it would have given validation to what I knew to be true and deeply hurt me and in the end, cause me to feel like even less of the man I thought she wanted at the time. Some physically, mentally, emotionally powerful male who was able to command great amounts of respect while being physically superior with an ability to back with violence what they expressed verbally.
> 
> ...


You sound like a good man. I'm sorry you went thru so much pain. I hope you found love again.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> It's an anonymous forum. She and others have the ability to state the things they really felt. Maybe her A was more "fulfilling" than "exhilarating". Or "degrading" versus "liberating".


I certainly didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but you know that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Brigit said:


> You sound like a good man. I'm sorry you went thru so much pain. I hope you found love again.


I tried very hard in my second marriage to be a good man. I failed in some ways, but not the most horrible ways I could have.

My trust in humanity doesn't allow me to find love. Neither does my financial or emotional state. In time, maybe, but I'm getting past the age of it being anywhere near worth it...and it's all I ever wanted out of my personal life. A faithful, loving supportive wife is a gift and should be well cared for.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> I tried very hard in my second marriage to be a good man. I failed in some ways, but not the most horrible ways I could have.
> 
> My trust in humanity doesn't allow me to find love. Neither does my financial or emotional state. In time, maybe, but I'm getting past the age of it being anywhere near worth it...and it's all I ever wanted out of my personal life. A faithful, loving supportive wife is a gift and should be well cared for.


Are you still in your second marriage?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Brigit said:


> Are you still in your second marriage?


No. It's ending is why I am here.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I tried very hard in my second marriage to be a good man. I failed in some ways, but not the most horrible ways I could have.
> 
> My trust in humanity doesn't allow me to find love. Neither does my financial or emotional state. In time, maybe, but I'm getting past the age of it being anywhere near worth it...and it's all I ever wanted out of my personal life. *A faithful, loving supportive wife is a gift *and should be well cared for.


and is very rare indeed in our current culture. If "love" finds you my friend it will matter not at all your emotional or financial state and you have no need for trust, you will know. Likewise, it is all I have ever really wanted as well. I wish you good fortune in your travels.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NoChoice said:


> and is very rare indeed in our current culture. If "love" finds you my friend it will matter not at all your emotional or financial state and you have no need for trust, you will know. Likewise, it is all I have ever really wanted as well. I wish you good fortune in your travels.


Thank you. I wish you the same.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

staystrong said:


> What adjectives would you use to describe what you felt during your affair?


Entitled? :scratchhead:


Yeah. I think maybe I felt entitled.

Then guilty. As guilty as a weasel in a hen house.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Can always count on Matt to come through with the truth, even when it's painful and makes him vulnerable. Thanks MattMatt.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> No. It's ending is why I am here.


I see. I'm so sorry.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Can always count on Matt to come through with the truth, even when it's painful and makes him vulnerable. Thanks MattMatt.


I _WOULD_ talk about it if I thought I was safe, but you know as well as I do if I spoke of my digressions people would start throwing stones. 

I've gotten cyber attacked before when I went too much against the grain of the group. I know what I can and cannot disclose. 

This is a nice forum and I'm hoping to get help here. But sometimes I can be very "controversial" or at least say things that stir emotions. At times, I can cause a lot of drama and although it can be very exciting it's also quite exhausting.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> I _WOULD_ talk about it if I thought I was safe, but you know as well as I do if I spoke of my digressions people would start throwing stones.
> 
> I've gotten cyber attacked before when I went too much against the grain of the group. I know what I can and cannot disclose.
> 
> This is a nice forum and I'm hoping to get help here. But sometimes I can be very "controversial" or at least say things that stir emotions. At times, I can cause a lot of drama and although it can be very exciting it's also quite exhausting.


Why not simply accept the stone throwing? Let every stone cast bludgeon you or bounce off of you? I think what triggers people the most is justifications. If you make no "It was wrong, but.." statements then I think most anything you say would be accepted, as painful or triggery as it is. The one underlying principle on TAM is that no one deserves to be cheated and there's no excuse. The rest is deconstructing the issue and trying to make most of a horrible situation.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> Why not simply accept the stone throwing? Let every stone cast bludgeon you or bounce off of you? I think what triggers people the most is justifications. If you make no "It was wrong, but.." statements then I think most anything you say would be accepted, as painful or triggery as it is. The one underlying principle on TAM is that no one deserves to be cheated and there's no excuse. The rest is deconstructing the issue and trying to make most of a horrible situation.


It's not helpful for me to be a piñata. The stones don't bounce. They hurt. 

My cheating came from a place of despair. If I was happy and healthy cheating wouldn't have been on the menu. I'm not saying that is why everyone cheats. But pain and fear is where my story began.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Well, this is a place of hurt. 

For me personally, there's a very narrow class of cases of which I'm sympathetic. Cases of neglect and abuse and co-dependence. In those cases, it's more about their marriage and the individual than the affair.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> Well, this is a place of hurt.
> 
> For me personally, there's a very narrow class of cases of which I'm sympathetic. Cases of neglect and abuse and co-dependence. In those cases, it's more about their marriage and the individual than the affair.


Like I said before I don't know why other people cheat. I only know why I cheated. Some people may cheat because they're sex addicts or a bit greedy or whatever. I was in a bad place when I cheated. I was very depressed and helped me feel other emotions. I'm not going to defend it but that was the main reason why I cheated.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> Like I said before I don't know why other people cheat. I only know why I cheated. Some people may cheat because they're sex addicts or a bit greedy or whatever. I was in a bad place when I cheated. I was very depressed and helped me feel other emotions. I'm not going to defend it but that was the main reason why I cheated.


How long had you been depressed before your affair? What did your counselor or doctor say was the cause of the depression?


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> How long had you been depressed before your affair? What did your counselor or doctor say was the cause of the depression?


I've suffered depression and anxiety since I was a child. I'm being maintained on a small but effective dose of prozac and xanax xr. It took years to figure out the right meds for me. I cannot go too high or I get physical problems. So, I'm on the right meds but meds can only do so much. 

I was depressed due to martial issues that weren't getting better and I didn't have the emotional strength to do anything more than join a mental health forum and talk about my problems. That is where I met the OM.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

An online forum?

What kind of marital problems were you having?


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> An online forum?
> 
> What kind of marital problems were you having?


Yes. It was a well known mental health website. But there were chat rooms so faster communication could be established and in those chat rooms one could whisper to an individual member and he began whispering to me and from there it progressed.

At first, I didn't even talk about my marital problems just my own problems. I presented myself as a happily married woman who was depressed. 

I was being severely neglected in the marriage but at the time I couldn't even verbalize what was going wrong. I just knew I was unhappy.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Can you specifically describe the neglect? It's a term used but for readers it can be very vague or mean a lot of things.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> Can you specifically describe the neglect? It's a term used but for readers it can be very vague or mean a lot of things.


He had a lot going on in his life at the time and spending time with me was a low priority.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Brigit said:


> I _WOULD_ talk about it if I thought I was safe, but you know as well as I do if I spoke of my digressions people would start throwing stones.
> 
> I've gotten cyber attacked before when I went too much against the grain of the group. I know what I can and cannot disclose.
> 
> This is a nice forum and I'm hoping to get help here. But sometimes I can be very "controversial" or at least say things that stir emotions. At times, I can cause a lot of drama and although it can be very exciting it's also quite exhausting.


Been doing it myself since July of 2012. Some of the other members can surely tell you how controversial some of my posts have been. Sometimes, I've gotten to the bottom of things that way and no other. 

On the other hand, if you have the guts to post something controversial, you must have the guts to take some tough responses. You don't have to take all of them. Certain posts can be reported and a member will be excused from membership for a time or permanently. Any post can be reported, in fact, but some might not be membership limiting offenses. Depends on the mod, the post, the topic, and maybe some other criteria I've forgotten.

Hey, how'd ya like that word excused, guys? Didn't want to use the "b" word. Pretty good huh? I got a feeling I'm gonna take a shot or two for that.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> He had a lot going on in his life at the time and spending time with me was a low priority.


It doesn't seem like you really want to tell your story so I'll stop asking questions.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> It doesn't seem like you really want to tell your story so I'll stop asking questions.


She can't delete her posts in someone else's thread. She has little control when it's not her own thread. If she starts one, a mod can move these posts there so she has some control. I don't want her to go further. It's too emotional and vulnerable in someone else's thread. I do hope she starts her own thread. 

You ask important and appropriate questions, but they are tough and will quickly tire her. She needs some control over her own destiny.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Brigit said:


> He had a lot going on in his life at the time and spending time with me was a low priority.


This sounds so familiar.
I hear a lot of the same things from my old lady...It's kind of cool that we are finally talking about shyt and we are actually listening to each other.

Back in the day...forget about it.....we handles our **** in our own way and never thought about the other person.

I cheated on my M with my work...Mrs. the guy cheat on her M with other penises...it was a phucked up mess.

Burying the 1st affair really dictated the next 13 years of the marriage. I made a lot of money, she met a lot of guys and the funny thing is neither of which made us happier.

I just spent more and she just phucked more....it never really fixed a thing.

Until now

I make less money and Mrs. the guy just phucks me

Now that the kids are out of the house and the old lady has a job I really don't mind making less and phucking more:lol:

At the end of the day it is really easy to screw up a marriage....and just as easy as phucking around on a marriage. There isn't any good excuse for either of these things to happen when you make our marriage a priority. If you think about it, me and the old lady had our priorities and we were quit successful..in an unhealthy way

That's my $0.02


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> She can't delete her posts in someone else's thread. She has little control when it's not her own thread. If she starts one, a mod can move these posts there so she has some control. I don't want her to go further. It's too emotional and vulnerable in someone else's thread. I do hope she starts her own thread.
> 
> You ask important and appropriate questions, but they are tough and will quickly tire her. She needs some control over her own destiny.


I agree, I hope she starts her own thread. Perhaps she's still trying to understand her own story.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> She can't delete her posts in someone else's thread. She has little control when it's not her own thread. If she starts one, a mod can move these posts there so she has some control. I don't want her to go further. It's too emotional and vulnerable in someone else's thread. I do hope she starts her own thread.
> 
> You ask important and appropriate questions, but they are tough and will quickly tire her. She needs some control over her own destiny.


Correction, she can delete her posts, but what a job if it gets long.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> I agree, I hope she starts her own thread. Perhaps she's still trying to understand her own story.



I had my own thread which everyone posted on "Changing Behavior," I deleted all my threads because I get uncomfortable having my business posted for too long. I've very private by nature.

It wasn't my story because my story is old but it was about how I would proceed in the future. Everyone who posted on that thread basically gave me the same advice: Get Individual Counseling. Which is a good idea but not one that I have done yet TBH. In the meantime, I'd like to just post and figure out my issues in a more organic manner.

I'm at a point now where I do understand my behavior, my upbringing and my marriage. Sometimes I get "inappropriate urges" I know why I get them but I don't act on them. 

I keep a watchful eye on what I do. I joined TAM because this is a safe place as far as getting into romantic trouble. I doubt anyone on this site would be silly enough to try and romance me. For one this is a pro-marriage site and two I don't have any pictures posted. So this is a pretty safe place to joke around and chat.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Brigit said:


> I had my own thread which everyone posted on "Changing Behavior," I deleted all my threads because I get uncomfortable having my business posted for too long. I've very private by nature.
> 
> It wasn't my story because my story is old but it was about how I would proceed in the future. Everyone who posted on that thread basically gave me the same advice: Get Individual Counseling. Which is a good idea but not one that I have done yet TBH. In the meantime, I'd like to just post and figure out my issues in a more organic manner.
> 
> ...




Hey whaaatss up?

If i told you you a had a great body would you hold it against me?

One of my old ladies favorite lines.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


The funny thing about TAM is you have @ss wholes like me phucking with you.

My point is we are pro marriage and we can have fun with that.

It's when a poor spouse newbie comes along and we all see how screwed they are getting...that's when it gets serious! Especially when kids are involved...the little ones don't deserve this shyt.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Brigit said:


> I had my own thread which everyone posted on "Changing Behavior," I deleted all my threads because I get uncomfortable having my business posted for too long. I've very private by nature.
> 
> It wasn't my story because my story is old but it was about how I would proceed in the future. Everyone who posted on that thread basically gave me the same advice: Get Individual Counseling. Which is a good idea but not one that I have done yet TBH. In the meantime, I'd like to just post and figure out my issues in a more organic manner.
> 
> ...


Is there something more to this than you become attracted to people other than your partner? Or that you have unfulfilled fantasies?

It sounds as though you don't trust your own self-control. Or am I misinterpreting?


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

staystrong said:


> Is there something more to this than you become attracted to people other than your partner? Or that you have unfulfilled fantasies?
> 
> It sounds as though you don't trust your own self-control. Or am I misinterpreting?


I don't trust myself right now because of my past behavior. So I limit myself to venues that can keep me safe. I love my husband and don't want to disrespect him.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Does he know Brigit?


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Does he know Brigit?


Yep. He knows all. Like I said I did have a thread here "Changing Behavior." Where I gave a quick background of my story and got feedback on behavior I need to reinforce and behavior I need to extinguish. 

At this point, I'd rather not say anything more on this thread since I can't delete the whole thing. But I did give some info. on why someone might cheat. I hope it has been helpful.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Here is a thought. It is generally agreed that WS's are selfish and lacking empathy. By definition, selfish would indicate a higher regard for ones self than for others. It is also the case, in the majority of instances, that the WS tries to be covert and not get caught. I find this puzzling. If the WS has a higher opinion of him/herself than they do others, then are they not, in every instance, already caught by the one who matters most in the world, themselves?

Is it not ridiculous to say that you do not want to be caught when you have already been caught by the one whose opinion means more to you than anyone's. I find this mentality fascinating.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

One question: Does he know you post here?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NoChoice said:


> Here is a thought. It is generally agreed that WS's are selfish and lacking empathy. By definition, selfish would indicate a higher regard for ones self than for others. It is also the case, in the majority of instances, that the WS tries to be covert and not get caught. I find this puzzling. If the WS has a higher opinion of him/herself than they do others, then are they not, in every instance, already caught by the one who matters most in the world, themselves?
> 
> Is it not ridiculous to say that you do not want to be caught when you have already been caught by the one whose opinion means more to you than anyone's. I find this mentality fascinating.


You forget about forgiveness in this theory. It is easier to forgive someone you hold in high regard. Don't you think? If Spock slipped and showed his humanity once in a while, it was easy to forgive him. He was admirable and we cared about him. In fact, we wanted him to slip up, precisely to show his humanity. Perfection is tough to wrap feelings around.

I mean feelings of understanding and love. Jealousy and hate would be more natural when face with living with perfection, unless that perfect one is totally forgiving when we show our remorse and attempt to do better. In other words, we can love someone who we think is perfect, if we are given a chance and treasured for who we are.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Yet often there is no remorse. So there's nothing to forgive. Forgiveness is for those for seek it and who try to earn it back. The case with many cheaters is that "staying" is their gift to you the betrayed. "See, I'm here". Well, great.. I can't stand the sight of this pod person in front of you yet I don't want you to leave either. I want the "old you" back yet you killed her/him. Good job. Thanks for f'ing ruining everything. 

Or something like that.


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## quiesedba (Apr 19, 2015)

my two cents.... I found wife friend attractive and wanted to have sex with her. that was it.... i was not unhappy with wife, i was not looking for emotional connection... I wanted to have meaningless sex because i was bored... and wanted excited... I have an addictive personality and loved the excitement. 

Hopefully I will not do it again as it hurt wife and kids and I dont want to lose them for some strange... but I did like being single and doing what I wanted.... 

did I think it would hurt her if she found out... maybe it would , maybe it would not.... if she cheated now , I would ask her if she had an orgasm and if she wants to divorce and be with him. I might miss the sex with her but oh well **** happens.

Right now I am more aware that I am vulnerable to an affair so I watch myself, I am trying to make marriage better.... but who knows... Like i said before I can live without telling someone , anyone how my ****ing day went.... I have basic needs, if they are met I'm happy....


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> You forget about forgiveness in this theory. It is easier to forgive someone you hold in high regard. Don't you think? If Spock slipped and showed his humanity once in a while, it was easy to forgive him. He was admirable and we cared about him. In fact, we wanted him to slip up, precisely to show his humanity. Perfection is tough to wrap feelings around.
> 
> I mean feelings of understanding and love. Jealousy and hate would be more natural when face with living with perfection, unless that perfect one is totally forgiving when we show our remorse and attempt to do better. In other words, we can love someone who we think is perfect, if we are given a chance and treasured for who we are.


Actually, I find the reverse to be true. I can more easily "overlook" (forgive) the actions of someone I already suspect has a propensity to err. However, someone for whom I have a higher regard, I tend to have higher expectations.

Also, I believe the predominate reason that we wanted Spock to show emotion was to assure ourselves that he was really no better than we. We tend to want to bring people down to our level as opposed to rising to theirs. 

None of us are perfect but I believe the indicator of a persons intent to be the determination and zeal with which they/we strive for perfection. We cannot account for every possible contingency, so we all will make errors. However, with significant effort, those errors are limited in both severity and quantity. "I'm sorry" (true remorse) I feel should be a rarity, as opposed to the common, overused placation it is in our culture today.




staystrong said:


> Yet often there is no remorse. So there's nothing to forgive. Forgiveness is for those for seek it and who try to earn it back. The case with many cheaters is that "staying" is their gift to you the betrayed. "See, I'm here". Well, great.. I can't stand the sight of this pod person in front of you yet I don't want you to leave either. I want the "old you" back yet you killed her/him. Good job. Thanks for f'ing ruining everything.
> 
> Or something like that.


Indeed.



quiesedba said:


> my two cents.... I found wife friend attractive and wanted to have sex with her. that was it.... i was not unhappy with wife, i was not looking for emotional connection... I wanted to have meaningless sex because i was bored... and wanted excited... I have an addictive personality and loved the excitement.
> 
> Hopefully I will not do it again as it hurt wife and kids and I dont want to lose them for some strange... but I did like being single and doing what I wanted....
> 
> ...


I am merely curious. If this statement is true why are you posting on this forum? Are we not someone/anyone?


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## quiesedba (Apr 19, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> Actually, I find the reverse to be true. I can more easily "overlook" (forgive) the actions of someone I already suspect has a propensity to err. However, someone for whom I have a higher regard, I tend to have higher expectations.
> 
> Also, I believe the predominate reason that we wanted Spock to show emotion was to assure ourselves that he was really no better than we. We tend to want to bring people down to our level as opposed to rising to theirs.
> 
> ...


I'm stating my opinion, not tell you how my day went.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> Although I do not ascribe to any religious doctrine I do find truth and wisdom in the Bible. As mentioned above, we are all born into sin because we are all born immature and underdeveloped. As(if) we grow and mature, we leave our "sinful" ways behind and move towards reason, logic and rationale. The problem arises from the fact that in order to grow intellectually we need challenge(s). Absent them we remain "sinners".
> 
> God, salvation = Intellect, intelligence
> Satan, sin = Stupidity





staystrong said:


> A large part of our identities is based on how we act. The problem with cheaters is that they most often project, rationalize, minimize and justify their actions. Black is white and white is black. They act as if "it was wrong" but yet someone it's still "okay" because they did it and it was not done to them. Most don't seek to learn about themselves, they just stay stuck in a world of delirium and bring down everyone else with them until they and/or others hit rock bottom.
> 
> Sin is not an abstract concept. It relates to how we deal with ourselves, how we treat others and how we lose touch with our higher values for base rewards. It's the suppression of conscientiousness and compassion for self-gratification and benefits that weren't earned through any merit. Sin is not healthy, it's degradation of self. Not being sinful doesn't mean you have to be a prude in life, but it does ask that you not be destructive to yourself and others. And if you sin, then truly try to redeem yourself. Most cheaters either don't or can't do that. Their judgment is clouded and short-sighted. I don't believe in the devil, but the analogy is clear: the devil first appears as a friend, someone who can gain your trust and lead to you believe he or she supports what is "good for you". The devil doesn't care about what's really good for you, he only cares about what is good for himself. And he wants you to lead your life like him. That's the way I see it.




Your post reminded me of a philosophers quote "man is not a rational being but a rationalizing being." To my understanding, it means that we act out of emotion (most times) then justify it with reason.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> The constraints you place upon yourself, the boundaries that constitute character, are less flexible than you postulate. I thought about having a PA when my marriage was failing, but I came to realize I would not be able to live with myself.
> 
> A partner who cannot betray has great difficulty understanding the partner that did. Early on, we project aspects of ourselves on to our partners. I saw my WW as someone who valued fidelity because I needed her to be that way. Projections always erode over time, and we see our partner for who they are as opposed to who we need them to be.
> *
> Partners cheat because they value their unmet needs more than their personal integrity and their partner's trust combined.* The equation is that simple.


A good point there...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jung_admirer said:


> See_Listen_Love said:
> 
> 
> > The judgement on WS is harsh on TAM. I have trouble with that, because *I see every person as a potential sinner*. Maybe not now and here, but in the next relation in the future the BS may become a WS.
> ...


* In complete and total agreement with Jung's final paragraph of this particular post!

IMHO, it pretty much says it all!*


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## badaboom (Feb 19, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> Actually, I find the reverse to be true. I can more easily "overlook" (forgive) the actions of someone I already suspect has a propensity to err. However, someone for whom I have a higher regard, I tend to have higher expectations.


I'm with you here - my husband's father cheated his mother, a lot. My husband knew this and was so negative on anyone who cheats. Friends, others we've known who cheated, he always was so angry and digusted by it. I think that's part of the reason I was so shocked by this. I really didn't think he would do this to me. Blows my mind that he doesn't see the irony of it all.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> Actually, I find the reverse to be true. I can more easily "overlook" (forgive) the actions of someone I already suspect has a propensity to err. However, someone for whom I have a higher regard, I tend to have higher expectations.


And this is a huge part of why it's so devastating to discover that your spouse has had or is in an affair... you thought that you'd married someone that belonged in the latter group, only to find that they belong in the former.

Still, I'll take the raw, hurtful truth over a calculated lie any day of the week.


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## jnunn79 (Jul 16, 2015)

Devastated an lost said:


> This is one of the hardest questions for me, Because we had a good marriage. We were best friends we did everything together until OW came along. Every time I ask him why? He says he honestly don't know. He was happy. It just happened. I can't understand how something can just happen over & over for 6 months. That I know of.
> 
> If you're happy why would you put yourself in a position for something to happen? I had opportunity's, But never even considered it. I will wander for the rest of my life, WHY? if you're happy & have more than you can handle at home. I would really like to know the answer..


My husband said something to that effect he also added that he was selfish and just a bad choice he made.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

jnunn79 said:


> My husband said something to that effect he also added that he was selfish and just a bad choice he made.


I know how you feel. It makes it harder to understand when every thing is good. I could deal with it better if we'd been having problems or if I hadn't been available any time he got the urge. I was at his beck & call 24/7


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> *They are selfish* and want to do things that they want to do.
> 
> do not think about others. They wanted the A and they had or are having the A.
> 
> *It is all about them*.


Any 'why' is an after-the-fact rag used to polish the turd.


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