# How to deal with passive aggressive wife



## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

Hi all, 

I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods. We've been married for 5 years and have always fought a lot, always over very minor things. Even she admits we don't really have any real problems. However, when I do something that annoys her (especially when she is in a mood, is tired, or has other things bottled up), she goes from 0 to 100 in seconds and nothing do can calm her down. She would say a lot of hurtful things about me as a father and husband, stop doing anything that she was supposed to do (class, preplanned trips, meet-ups with our friends, cook, etc) and lock herself in the room. Trying to talk to her, no matter how calmly, only makes her even more incensed. 

I used to acquiesce and apologize (even if I didn't do anything wrong), and beg her to move on, but that would just agitate her even more, and she ends up threatening not to talk to me even longer. We had previously gone for counseling where we were given the routine advice for solving squabbles - give each other space+time (20 mins to 1-2 hours), and reconvene to discuss later on. However, anytime I make her mad, she does this for the rest of the day (sometimes the whole weekend) - effectively putting everything on hold while she sulks, and manipulating me to give her her way every time if I want things to be normal. 

Since reading No More Mr Nice Guy, I have been trying to stand my ground, be more assertive and not let her affect me. However, it doesn't seem to change anything. She gets even more mad at me for telling her off, and actually ends up giving me the cold shoulder longer than if before. I would be much more able to deal with her immaturity if we didn't have a kid to care for. Right now, if I want my kid to have a family day together on a Saturday, I need to make sure I don't say or do anything to piss off the wife on a Friday. I would be perfectly happy to let her sulk all weekend, if not for the thought of my daughter wanting to spend time with us together. 

Outside of these moods, she is a fantastic mother and loving wife. I can keep the peace if I give her what she wants, but every relationship advice I read says that I should not be letting her walk all over me. Counseling did not work and she refuses to do more of it. I know that if I gave her any kind of ultimatum, she would go with the one that ruins the family. I don't think our problems are big enough for divorce, especially with a kid in the picture. 

I know this is a lot, but I was hoping to get some advice on the following questions:

Does anyone have experience dealing with a partner like this? How do you respond to their behavior?
How can I prioritize myself and my needs, while also prioritizing my family and my daughter's needs?
Has anybody ignored the conventional wisdom of standing up for oneself, and just bending backwards for their partner for the sake of their family? Did the gains outweigh the losses long-term?

Thanks in advance!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

qwerster said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods. We've been married for 5 years and have always fought a lot, always over very minor things. Even she admits we don't really have any real problems. However, when I do something that annoys her (especially when she is in a mood, is tired, or has other things bottled up), she goes from 0 to 100 in seconds and nothing do can calm her down. She would say a lot of hurtful things about me as a father and husband, stop doing anything that she was supposed to do (class, preplanned trips, meet-ups with our friends, cook, etc) and lock herself in the room. Trying to talk to her, no matter how calmly, only makes her even more incensed.
> 
> ...


Ah I am so sorry you have to deal with this! 

My ex husband use to be like this. I always apologized even though I wasn’t wrong because I wanted to keep the peace in the house and I didn’t want to be in an endless fight with him, which it would of been. 

I have no answers for you. When I started to stand my ground it was the beginning of the end of our marriage. 

How does one draw boundaries on someone who is willing to remove themselves from your life? It’s impossible. 

Can you be married to her as she is now? If not, then you have to fight like hell to get her to change and be willing to walk away if she doesn’t. If you can stay married to her as she is… then there is nothing you can do. I’m sorry.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It sounds like a terrible existence, to me, and absolutely divorce worthy. Talking to her didn't work, counseling didn't work, and she is refusing more counseling. Sounds like this is your life. Either divorce, or learn to come to acceptance that this is your marriage. It's not going to change.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I have some experience here, I may be wrong but it seems like the issues come up before a social activity or where she needs to do something for you or with you? Does this happen when it’s an outing that is something she’s planned?

In my case my mother was like this! 

I remember asking my mother when we were older why there was always a drama when we had to go somewhere (like your wife, tantrums and then sitting down with arms crossed and refusing to leave the house, or refusing to get out of the car once we arrived. She would also be very rude too, other people would notice. And it seemed the more fun we had the worse she was. 

She said she used to do this as a child to her parents and siblings too. Later during an argument, she screamed how she couldn’t stand all the attention my dad was getting because she was hopeless at talking and ‘why should I sit there and talk to people they’re so stupid with all their questions!’ 

So that was her lol, she was a mess. But it wasn’t really about my dad, if I took her shopping and had a nice conversation with a sales assistant she’d get all stroppy. 

I have nothing to do with her now, haven’t had contact for about 5 years. we grew up like this, her own parents dealt with it and oh ‘You all have to accept me just as I am’. Except no thanks! It got much worse when she got older, instead of shutting herself in her room she’d actually leave for days and turn her phone off, that escalated into frequent threats of suicide etc. That was a long time ago, I drew the line when my kids were old enough to start worrying about her - hell no. 

In terms of how to deal with it, you don’t come looking for her, don’t go after her or ask her what’s wrong. (Unless you’ve reasonably done something wrong and she’s clearly stated what that is. That’s when you both talk, resolve and move on pronto). 

So don’t engage until she’s ready to talk, don’t chase after her. If there’s a social event and she’s leaving you at the last minute, you go by yourself. If people ask why she’s not there, change the topic, don’t lie for her. If she was supposed to cook and throws a wobbly, you simply go out for takeaway or dinner. Just leave and carry on. 

When we tried this, that’s when things unfortunately escalated and she got much worse in terms of her tantrums - yes tantrums is what they are. A good therapist was able to say I was not to look after her anymore and to simply call her an ambulance if she was playing the suicide game. It’s emotional blackmail. 

Look my husband can drive me crazy and I drive him crazy. But a simple, ‘Hey I’m angry that you did this, don’t do it again!’ Goes a long way. 

Your daughter is probably better off not spending the weekend ‘together’ if she’s like this. And I can also see that you’ve tried to not engage and she’s getting angrier - that’s pretty common. So you simply remove yourself, have a good time with your daughter and if you know Friday is the day before Saturday, don’t tiptoe around her. You simply go out together. Don’t call to check on her and don’t answer her calls if she rings. If this keeps up you’ll eventually stop celebrating birthdays, socialising, etc.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I wanted to add above, she would even do this for minor things - for example I would need new clothes, we’d plan a particular day to go, and sure enough on the day there was a drama. Or my friends would meet at my place before we would go out, I’d warn her in advance - drama. Parent-teacher interview -
Drama! Eternal victim that one. 

Fighting back never worked, talking about it didn’t work. But finally realising that I wasn’t the cause of her problems was very liberating! Nobody could make her happy!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Your problem could be as simple as learning her love language (_The Five Love Languages_ by Dr. Gary Chapman) or as complicated as divorce. Whatever you do, commit to not living through the life of hell that she is dragging you through.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The answer is you do not deal with it. You be DONE with it.
The only chance in hell that you have is you become stronger and more fearless than she is..... never back down. You aren’t this way by nature so it will be extremely difficult. 
It’s not easy... but you have to determine how miserable you are willing to be before cutting her loose for good.
Have you tried some bat ****e crazy sex when she is acting up? Might be just what she needs. At this point anything is worth a try.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

As @Mr.Married said above, you don’t deal with it. You don’t put up with it, you don’t tolerate it.

That doesn’t mean get in fights with her, it doesn’t mean yell back at her, it doesn’t mean you name call, it doesn’t mean be insulting or tell her off, it just means you don’t tolerate it and when she’s behaving badly you remove your time and attention.

Treat her like you would a bratty misbehaving child. You don’t get upset or offended or hurt that an eight-year-old calls you a poopy head and throws a tantrum. You don’t get in a debate or an argument with the child. You just deal with the child non-reactively, and in some cases dismissively as to the bad behavior. Since your wife is an adult, you can’t spank her (actually maybe that would help...) or put her in timeout but you can remove your time, attention, validation and investment.

Never pander to her moods and never walk on eggshells around her. It destroys your own dignity, further decays the relationship and further reduces her respect for you.

If she’s acting badly and you need to remove yourself from the situation, take the kid out for ice cream/dinner/whatever. She’s not invited unless/until she’s able to control herself and be a pleasant adult again.
If you’re planning a family day, carry out your family day. If your wife throws a tantrum and chooses to act badly or in ways that threaten to spoil the day, take the kids and go without her.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Also, you mentioned that she’s not responding to your new more assertive/less supplicating way of being. That’s not unexpected. It will always get worse before it gets better (assuming it does get better, it’s not a guarantee). 

She will continue to push you and probably double down on her passive aggressive behavior before she accepts that it won’t work anymore. She doesn’t believe you yet. She does not believe that you’ve actually changed (assuming that you have).

She still sees you as the same week, nice guy appeaser who is just trying a new approach. She will probably escalate her passive aggressive (or openly aggressive) behavior to try and beat you back into your place.
Stay strong and don’t allow It.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Yes it will definitely escalate 3-6 months a rough guide, for new changes to have an impact. Be persistent. She will pull out the big guns, keep walking away. She should then slowly realise her own pattern of doing things is not working and get some help for her own issues there too. 

Remember again, like with a child, don’t ignore her attempts to try new things too and respond happily to them if she is trying. No need to point it out or talk about it, but a gentle hug or whatever works for you two. 

Above all, a loving smile from you works wonders too, even when she’s being the worst! Smile, walk away and don’t fall victim to her emotional blackmail. Actually you being happy shows her even more you’re not going to be affected. If she sees you seething or angry or sad, it’s still a reaction.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

When she gets like that take a deep breath and walk out. Take your child somewhere or go for a drive. Don't react to her just walk away. Sounds like she may have something medical going on and may need medication to calm her moods.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In addition to what other have said, and No More Mr Nice Guy, look up the Grey Rock Method.


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## Emily Bronte (Mar 21, 2021)

I don't want to give any unprofessional diagnoses, but your wife appears to have BPD (borderline personality disorder). Check out the symptoms in Google and you will find quite a lot of coincidences between her traits and the ones described. I have been exploring the topic extensively over the last few years simply because I have such a person at home - my husband. Unfortunately, there is no way out but a way out of the relationship, to which I am not ready yet because of the oldest reason in the world - I still love him. Poor us


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

qwerster said:


> Has anybody ignored the conventional wisdom of standing up for oneself, and just bending backwards for their partner for the sake of their family? Did the gains outweigh the losses long-term?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I had done exactly this for about...6 years. I actively tried to do things to prevent his unhappiness. And I ignored the bad things, passive aggressive behaviors and selfishness so on and on. I refused to fight because I didn’t want to anymore. I didn’t have the energy and didn’t think it was worth it.

So how did it work out for me? It literally ruined my life. He became the absolute most entitled selfish prick on Earth. Luckily, he went completely off the rails and had an affair. Yes, luckily. The worse thing would have been if he didn’t have an affair and I still lived as some stepford wife for all time. I shudder to think.

Probably the most destructive thing I’ve have ever done to myself in my life has been to become toxically passive. And no, I didn’t do my kids any favors either.


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

Does she have anxiety or depression? Sounds like if she gets triggered she will shut down because she can't handle having a mismatch between reality and what she wanted. I'm sure you have already talked to her (not during her tantrum, but at scheduled later time) how her behavior is unacceptable. In hindsight, has she ever admitted she is wrong? If not, this would be the first step to recovery. Once she has realized this behavior is destructive, you can offer to help her heal. Such as explain what would be the consequences ie. you guys carry on plans without her. Later when she throws another tantrum, like others have said, just carry on your plans without her. And again later on, address this issue calmly. Hopefully you can speak from a place of love and truly show you want her to be a better version of herself. Unfortunately, this will repeat over and over again for some time. But don't cave, and be strong in being the one of guidance.

Might also be helpful during the calm chat to say, wish you would've came. We missed you. We can try again next time.

(This was my mom. It was hard growing up with her and her tantrums. Fast forward 10 years, she had improved so much. So there is hope. Lots of work for all parties, but so worth it.)


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Show her that you have value as a person. The next time she throws a tantrum, speak kindly and calmly and say I understand where you are coming from but there really is no need to escalate to this level and I will not be subjected to this level of disrespect, then simply walk away, let her be a spoilt toddler. Show her that you are not engaging in this anymore. If necessary to a hard 180 on her to show her life goes on without her, if she wants to engage respectfully then that is up to her but you will not be losing any sleep. It is all about boundaries.


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## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Ah I am so sorry you have to deal with this!
> 
> My ex husband use to be like this. I always apologized even though I wasn’t wrong because I wanted to keep the peace in the house and I didn’t want to be in an endless fight with him, which it would of been.
> 
> ...


Considering how minor our squabbles are, I feel like I can make this marriage work if she just stops blowing everything up. Sometimes I wish we had more serious problems to fight about, she was a crappy mother, or something that would make it easier to walk away from.


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## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

Luckylucky said:


> I have some experience here, I may be wrong but it seems like the issues come up before a social activity or where she needs to do something for you or with you? Does this happen when it’s an outing that is something she’s planned?
> 
> In my case my mother was like this!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! 
This actually usually happens with things that I either planned or involves my family/friends. She does the same thing even when meeting her own friends too, though it is just less often because she is much more of an introvert.


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## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Also, you mentioned that she’s not responding to your new more assertive/less supplicating way of being. That’s not unexpected. It will always get worse before it gets better (assuming it does get better, it’s not a guarantee).
> 
> She will continue to push you and probably double down on her passive aggressive behavior before she accepts that it won’t work anymore. She doesn’t believe you yet. She does not believe that you’ve actually changed (assuming that you have).
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is a good point and a reassuring one at that. I have enabled this behavior since we got married, so I have a lot of damage to reverse. It's just so exhausting taking the high road every time while she is demeaning to me. Looks like I will just need to ride this one out.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

qwerster said:


> Thanks for the advice!
> This actually usually happens with things that I either planned or involves my family/friends. She does the same thing even when meeting her own friends too, though it is just less often because she is much more of an introvert.


So you carry out the plans with out her.


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## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

K3itty said:


> Does she have anxiety or depression? Sounds like if she gets triggered she will shut down because she can't handle having a mismatch between reality and what she wanted. I'm sure you have already talked to her (not during her tantrum, but at scheduled later time) how her behavior is unacceptable. In hindsight, has she ever admitted she is wrong? If not, this would be the first step to recovery. Once she has realized this behavior is destructive, you can offer to help her heal. Such as explain what would be the consequences ie. you guys carry on plans without her. Later when she throws another tantrum, like others have said, just carry on your plans without her. And again later on, address this issue calmly. Hopefully you can speak from a place of love and truly show you want her to be a better version of herself. Unfortunately, this will repeat over and over again for some time. But don't cave, and be strong in being the one of guidance.
> 
> Might also be helpful during the calm chat to say, wish you would've came. We missed you. We can try again next time.
> 
> (This was my mom. It was hard growing up with her and her tantrums. Fast forward 10 years, she had improved so much. So there is hope. Lots of work for all parties, but so worth it.)


I actually have always suspected that she has depression or some sort of mental illness. I myself have struggled with depression years ago and have been able to manage it since. However, she is very adamant that there is nothing wrong with her and insists it is my depression that is coming back up. 

She actually does admit she is wrong sometimes when she is in a good mood, and that she doesn't mean those horrible things she says. She also commits to getting better, etc, but when she gets mad, it's like she forgets everything, loses all rational thought, and goes back to the same crap she pulls. It is like day and night with her. She also tends to only remember parts of the fights, so in her mind, I am always the one who is making things worse. I'm at the point where I don't know what to believe anymore - is she really that unhappy with me or is it just her mood swings? Am I the one who is overreacting to things or her?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

qwerster said:


> I actually have always suspected that she has depression or some sort of mental illness. I myself have struggled with depression years ago and have been able to manage it since. However, she is very adamant that there is nothing wrong with her and insists it is my depression that is coming back up.
> 
> She actually does admit she is wrong sometimes when she is in a good mood, and that she doesn't mean those horrible things she says. She also commits to getting better, etc, but when she gets mad, it's like she forgets everything, loses all rational thought, and goes back to the same crap she pulls. It is like day and night with her. She also tends to only remember parts of the fights, so in her mind, I am always the one who is making things worse. I'm at the point where I don't know what to believe anymore - is she really that unhappy with me or is it just her mood swings? Am I the one who is overreacting to things or her?


You are trying to deal with someone who has a personality disorder. You do not have an emotionally healthy partner. I don't have much hope for big change in her.

Even professionals will admit that treating borderline or NPD does not have a good success rate.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

qwerster said:


> She also tends to only remember parts of the fights, so in her mind, I am always the one who is making things worse.


Start openly recording her tantrums so you can go over them after she calms down. Play back the hurtful things she says and look her squarely in the eye and say you will no longer tolerate such abuse. “Keep it up and I am gone”. You must mean it otherwise you’ll destroy any remaining respect she has for you,


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

qwerster said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods. We've been married for 5 years and have always fought a lot, always over very minor things. Even she admits we don't really have any real problems. However, when I do something that annoys her (especially when she is in a mood, is tired, or has other things bottled up), she goes from 0 to 100 in seconds and nothing do can calm her down. She would say a lot of hurtful things about me as a father and husband, stop doing anything that she was supposed to do (class, preplanned trips, meet-ups with our friends, cook, etc) and lock herself in the room. Trying to talk to her, no matter how calmly, only makes her even more incensed.
> 
> ...


Easy (not really I just grew up with a step-father like this) when she is at 100 leave the house, don't answer your phone, go get dinner or a drink somewhere. But before you leave say (unemotionally), "I am leaving, I will be back and we can resume a discussion on this after you apologize me and IF you are respectful". It works because if you engage it gives her an excuse to escalate her behavior, if you detach she is stuck there to think about her behavior, not unlike disciplining a child. It's an adult timeout.

Then you have to stick to it, avoid conversation with her until she apologies. It only works if you stick to it and it may suck for a good while at first. Since you have already established a pattern of being a pushover you are going to have to be very strong at first to change her perception of you. Consequences are the only thing that works for people like your wife. If she refuses then look up "gray rock" and follow that. You can help around the house and do the same stuff you would have, but don't engage with her.

In general there should be a point where you stop talking to someone and leave the conversation if they are being disrespectful to you. If it happens to much you should write them off completely. You can't do this with your wife, you would have needed to do this when you were dating. The most important thing about this is you have to be disciplined and unemotional, that may take practice.

Again not saying this isn't going to be hard, it is and I am sure it will be scary. It may be that her pride is more important to her. Also maybe there is some underlying mental condition like a personality disorder. Not saying that is the case but sometimes it can be.


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Easy (not really I just grew up with a step-father like this) when she is at 100 leave the house, don't answer your phone, go get dinner or a drink somewhere. But before you leave say (unemotionally), "I am leaving, I will be back and we can resume a discussion on this after you apologize me and IF you are respectful". It works because if you engage it gives her an excuse to escalate her behavior, if you detach she is stuck there to think about her behavior, not unlike disciplining a child. It's an adult timeout.
> 
> Then you have to stick to it, avoid conversation with her until she apologies. It only works if you stick to it and it may suck for a good while at first. Since you have already established a pattern of being a pushover you are going to have to be very strong at first to change her perception of you. Consequences are the only thing that works for people like your wife. If she refuses then look up "gray rock" and follow that. You can help around the house and do the same stuff you would have, but don't engage with her.
> 
> ...


Yeah, all this. Basically what I said earlier with how we handled my mom's tantrums. And it does seem to be the solution. 

When you "take the high road" and continue your plans without her it's not a bad thing. She needs to cool down (and she needs to do that on her own) and you and everyone else needs to be able to carry on. It's not fair for one person ruining it for everyone. And in time, she will realize her bad behavior isn't rewarded. When you bend over for her and let her ruin your day, that is her "reward." Ever heard of misery loves company? She's in a bad mood and she wants you to pay for it. Don't let her have that. Don't enable bad behavior. Once you can calmly leave her and move on with your day, she'll see her behavior is ineffective and only she is suffering from her own bad decisions. That's when she might decide to change for good.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

qwerster said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods. We've been married for 5 years and have always fought a lot, always over very minor things. Even she admits we don't really have any real problems. However, when I do something that annoys her (especially when she is in a mood, is tired, or has other things bottled up), she goes from 0 to 100 in seconds and nothing do can calm her down. She would say a lot of hurtful things about me as a father and husband, stop doing anything that she was supposed to do (class, preplanned trips, meet-ups with our friends, cook, etc) and lock herself in the room. Trying to talk to her, no matter how calmly, only makes her even more incensed.
> 
> ...


I was a nice guy too. When i started to come out of that she was having alot of push back. I took her off the pedestal and that was hard as it had been ingrained from my parents behavior. She had **** tests for a while. I started squashing them and things began to change.
If she got pissy i went on and did not let it affect me. After her tifts she would eventially come around and appologize. I made a decision that i knew was right i stuck to my guns.

One test i remember clearly was she was going to get on the evtension ladder to remove covers from roof vents. She knew i had a thing about her being in potentionally dangerous situations. She said she was capeable and started to climb the ladder. I stopped her and said in a forceful tone to get her ass off the ladder like i said. She huffed and got down, i said Woman! Im gonna spank that ass! She turned huffily to walk in the house but had a big grin on her face as she did. There were times she tried to ramrod things and i put her in her place. She liked that but acted differently.

I took back control of the ship, but she is my 1st Officer that i go to for advice or bounce things off of. I may have control of the helm but she also has much impot on where the ship goes. I have final say though. But at the same time if it runs aground after a decision i make solely then it is my fault.

My wife now deferrs to me for most anything. I tell her what i think and if we have different ideas we discuss it. Just like if she puts on something and she comes and asks me. I tell her what i think. She worrys about clothing being too revealing.

She understands women and emotional responses clearly. Once she told me that due to hormone fluctuations sometimes she will drift emotionally and i need to stant firm and not change to suit her.
She said she is like a ship in stormy sea of emotion and she needs me to be like the lighthouse. Remain stationary so she can get her bearings off me and make corrections. If i change my course because of her then we will both be lost at sea.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> I was a nice guy too. When i started to come out of that she was having alot of push back. I took her off the pedestal and that was hard as it had been ingrained from my parents behavior. She had **** tests for a while. I started squashing them and things began to change.
> If she got pissy i went on and did not let it affect me. After her tifts she would eventially come around and appologize. I made a decision that i knew was right i stuck to my guns.
> 
> One test i remember clearly was she was going to get on the evtension ladder to remove covers from roof vents. She knew i had a thing about her being in potentionally dangerous situations. She said she was capeable and started to climb the ladder. I stopped her and said in a forceful tone to get her ass off the ladder like i said. She huffed and got down, i said Woman! Im gonna spank that ass! She turned huffily to walk in the house but had a big grin on her face as she did. There were times she tried to ramrod things and i put her in her place. She liked that but acted differently.
> ...


I know this works for you.... BUT seriously, the last part about (women) being in a sea of emotion needing a MAN to be the lighthouse is a crock is **** if you are claiming to try to generalize it to the general population. While there certainly exist differences between males and females, trying to generally paint females as being lost in emotions and needing a male to be a lighthouse is just gross. Gross. Don't you know any capable, competent women who navigate through life just fine without being lost at sea and needing a man to be the lighthouse? Ick. If not, I feel very sorry for you.

Also gotta add, there do exist baby men who are more ruled by emotions and tantrums than some women. I have some in my workplace, in fact.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Livvie said:


> 1. Don't you know any capable, competent women who navigate through life just fine without being lost at sea and needing a man to be the lighthouse? Ick. If not, I feel very sorry for you.
> 
> 2. Also gotta add, there do exist baby men who are more ruled by emotions and tantrums than some women. I have some in my workplace, in fact.


Numeralization added to the above for clarity.

1. I have found that what @Divinely Favored describes here is almost always what women want and respond to in relationships.

Are most women capable of going to work, paying their bills and managing their lives without a man, sure. But we’re talking about relationship dynamics, not general functional capacity.

2. Ok, they’re losers, so who cares about them.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> It sounds like a terrible existence, to me, and absolutely divorce worthy. Talking to her didn't work, counseling didn't work, and she is refusing more counseling. Sounds like this is your life. Either divorce, or learn to come to acceptance that this is your marriage. It's not going to change.


I agree with this. It's unfortunately that your wife refuses more counselling because it sounds like she needs it. You need to figure out what you can and cannot live with, and go from there. Another unfortunate side-effect is that your wife is teaching your daughter how to be a woman with her behaviour. I'm so sorry that you're in this situation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

K3itty said:


> Yeah, all this. Basically what I said earlier with how we handled my mom's tantrums. And it does seem to be the solution.
> 
> When you "take the high road" and continue your plans without her it's not a bad thing. She needs to cool down (and she needs to do that on her own) and you and everyone else needs to be able to carry on. It's not fair for one person ruining it for everyone. And in time, she will realize her bad behavior isn't rewarded. When you bend over for her and let her ruin your day, that is her "reward." Ever heard of misery loves company? She's in a bad mood and she wants you to pay for it. Don't let her have that. Don't enable bad behavior. Once you can calmly leave her and move on with your day, she'll see her behavior is ineffective and only she is suffering from her own bad decisions. That's when she might decide to change for good.


Yep often it is a manipulation tactic. They also almost always say they can't control it. Except if it was their boss or cop most of them would control it. Bottom line, your actions teach someone who they can treat you. You have to have and hold onto your boundaries.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Easy (not really I just grew up with a step-father like this) when she is at 100 leave the house, don't answer your phone, go get dinner or a drink somewhere. But before you leave say (unemotionally), "I am leaving, I will be back and we can resume a discussion on this after you apologize me and IF you are respectful". It works because if you engage it gives her an excuse to escalate her behavior, if you detach she is stuck there to think about her behavior, not unlike disciplining a child. It's an adult timeout.
> 
> Then you have to stick to it, avoid conversation with her until she apologies. It only works if you stick to it and it may suck for a good while at first. Since you have already established a pattern of being a pushover you are going to have to be very strong at first to change her perception of you. Consequences are the only thing that works for people like your wife. If she refuses then look up "gray rock" and follow that. You can help around the house and do the same stuff you would have, but don't engage with her.
> 
> ...


Several times in the past i have told my wife this conversation is over until you can speak in a civil tone...and walked away and left.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I know this works for you.... BUT seriously, the last part about (women) being in a sea of emotion needing a MAN to be the lighthouse is a crock is **** if you are claiming to try to generalize it to the general population. While there certainly exist differences between males and females, trying to generally paint females as being lost in emotions and needing a male to be a lighthouse is just gross. Gross. Don't you know any capable, competent women who navigate through life just fine without being lost at sea and needing a man to be the lighthouse? Ick. If not, I feel very sorry for you.
> 
> Also gotta add, there do exist baby men who are more ruled by emotions and tantrums than some women. I have some in my workplace, in fact.


My wife is more capable than most. It was terminology to describe fact women are typically more emotional than men. So if my wife is upset/PMSing and she gets pissy...instead of being level headed and remaining steady...you are saying i should go ahead and react to her emotional issue and just take it to the next level...get pissy also and throw her behavior back in her face? Tell her to leave until she quits being pissy? Kick her ass out of the house? 
Maybe you think men should all act like those beta men at your work...change our emotions, chasing our womens emotional state. OMG...OMG...My wife is upset! What can i do! Is she upset with me! OMG!

Does not make for good marriage. I think i rather remain unphased by a womans emotiknal fluctuations.


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## qwerster (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and guidance. It is clear that I only have one option if I want to make things work - stand my ground and not like her derail me. 

I am terrified that my daughter picks up after her, but I fully intend to always remain the stronger and calmer presence in her life so she hopefully sees that the way her mother handles conflict is wrong. 

I will need to be patient and give this new approach of mine more time, and hopefully she stops all her immature crap. I will be back with updates - hopefully good ones 🙏


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

gr8ful1 said:


> Start openly recording her tantrums so you can go over them after she calms down. Play back the hurtful things she says and look her squarely in the eye and say you will no longer tolerate such abuse. “Keep it up and I am gone”. You must mean it otherwise you’ll destroy any remaining respect she has for you,


That seems like a really great way to get murdered. “Hold on to your tantrum for a minute while I pull out my phone to record you.” 😂


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> My wife is more capable than most. It was terminology to describe fact women are typically more emotional than men. So if my wife is upset/PMSing and she gets pissy...instead of being level headed and remaining steady...you are saying i should go ahead and react to her emotional issue and just take it to the next level...get pissy also and throw her behavior back in her face? Tell her to leave until she quits being pissy? Kick her ass out of the house?
> Maybe you think men should all act like those beta men at your work...change our emotions, chasing our womens emotional state. OMG...OMG...My wife is upset! What can i do! Is she upset with me! OMG!
> 
> Does not make for good marriage. I think i rather remain unphased by a womans emotiknal fluctuations.


Um, did you even read what I wrote? Because absolutely NOWHERE in what I wrote did I say you should "react to her emotional issue, take it to the next level, get pissy and throw her behavior back in her face". I question either your reading comprehension, or perhaps you just decided to outright lie. Good thing you quoted what I DID write, so others can verify I didn't say what you are saying I did. 

To recap: I said please don't generalize. There are _plenty_ of women who are not lost in their emotions and don't need a man to be her lighthouse because she can't control herself.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

qwerster said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and guidance. It is clear that I only have one option if I want to make things work - stand my ground and not like her derail me.
> 
> I am terrified that my daughter picks up after her, but I fully intend to always remain the stronger and calmer presence in her life so she hopefully sees that the way her mother handles conflict is wrong.
> 
> I will need to be patient and give this new approach of mine more time, and hopefully she stops all her immature crap. I will be back with updates - hopefully good ones 🙏


You’re right, that this is the only effective path forward based on your description of current reality.

Just bear in mind, while this may be the best course of action, it’s not guaranteed to be successful. The situation may be too far gone, she may be irreparably broken, she may have too little respect for you to be recoverable, etc.

Right now you have a concept. 
You need to have a plan. A written, ACTIONABLE plan with timetables, objectives and contingencies. Definition of success and what levels of improvement will, and will not be acceptable for you to continue in this marriage.

And since your situation may or may not improve, you need to have a plan for ending your marriage and making sure you are set up for success as a better man going forward, into new relationships. 
Start working on yourself in preparation for the possibility that your wife doesn’t come around. That way when it’s decision time you’ll be in a better position either way.


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## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Easy (not really I just grew up with a step-father like this) when she is at 100 leave the house, don't answer your phone, go get dinner or a drink somewhere. But before you leave say (unemotionally), "I am leaving, I will be back and we can resume a discussion on this after you apologize me and IF you are respectful". It works because if you engage it gives her an excuse to escalate her behavior, if you detach she is stuck there to think about her behavior, not unlike disciplining a child. It's an adult timeout.
> 
> Then you have to stick to it, avoid conversation with her until she apologies. It only works if you stick to it and it may suck for a good while at first. Since you have already established a pattern of being a pushover you are going to have to be very strong at first to change her perception of you. Consequences are the only thing that works for people like your wife. If she refuses then look up "gray rock" and follow that. You can help around the house and do the same stuff you would have, but don't engage with her.
> 
> ...


Just curious, what if they won't let you leave the room (block the doorway or hold you down?) and insist on arguing right then and there? 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashybum said:


> Just curious, what if they won't let you leave the room (block the doorway or hold you down?) and insist on arguing right then and there?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


I would follow this -









Grey Rock Method: 6 Tips and Techniques


Grey rocking is a technique for dealing with manipulative or abusive people. We'll break down 6 techniques you can try out for yourself.




www.healthline.com





Gut I got to say if she is doing that there is a serious problem. Seems like some sort of personality disorder.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Qwerster, go find a book titled "Living Successfully with Screwed-Up People" by Elizabeth Brown.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Um, did you even read what I wrote? Because absolutely NOWHERE in what I wrote did I say you should "react to her emotional issue, take it to the next level, get pissy and throw her behavior back in her face". I question either your reading comprehension, or perhaps you just decided to outright lie. Good thing you quoted what I DID write, so others can verify I didn't say what you are saying I did.
> 
> To recap: I said please don't generalize. There are _plenty_ of women who are not lost in their emotions and don't need a man to be her lighthouse because she can't control herself.


You said it was rediculous for a woman to need a man to remain stedfast and not let her emotions rule him. Do you not ever get upset or emotional for no justifiable reason? Never said she was lost in her emotions...you said that. The whole statement is an illistration sp to speak. It is about not changing my behavior due what ever her emotional state might be at the moment.


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

@qwerster Wishing you strength. It's gonna be a long ride. Your daughter will absolutely see you as the calm responsible adult that she needs. I saw that in my dad.

She'll also learn bad behavior is not rewarded.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> You said it was rediculous for a woman to need a man to remain stedfast and not let her emotions rule him. Do you not ever get upset or emotional for no justifiable reason? Never said she was lost in her emotions...you said that. The whole statement is an illistration sp to speak. It is about not changing my behavior due what ever her emotional state might be at the moment.


You still, I guess, are either not reading or not comprehending what I wrote. I said: please don't generalize that _women in general_ have such low control of their emotions that they need men to be their lighthouses to help them control themselves. 

OP would be most helped understanding that his wife's behaviors are not healthy and of the norm.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> You still, I guess, are either not reading or not comprehending what I wrote. I said: please don't generalize that _women in general_ have such low control of their emotions that they need men to be their lighthouses to help them control themselves.
> 
> OP would be most helped understanding that his wife's behaviors are not healthy and of the norm.


Never said women in general in my original post. It was what my wife said about herself, as clearly stated, when she was hormonal depending on time of month.

Thankfully she has had hysterectomy and on HRT and the sea is a smooth as glass.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

qwerster said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods.
> 
> ...





qwerster said:


> .......She actually does admit she is wrong sometimes when she is in a good mood, and that she doesn't mean those horrible things she says. She also commits to getting better, etc, but when she gets mad, it's like she forgets everything, loses all rational thought, and goes back to the same crap she pulls. It is like day and night with her. She also tends to only remember parts of the fights, so in her mind, I am always the one who is making things worse. I'm at the point where I don't know what to believe anymore - is she really that unhappy with me or is it just her mood swings? Am I the one who is overreacting to things or her?


I too was once a Nice Guy. Along the road to saving my marriage, I learned a few things that may or may not work for you. In a Gottman's weekend marriage counseling session, I learned about "emotional flooding." It is where you body goes into a fight or flight mode to the point that you can no longer rationally think or discuss anything. You really have to wait until the adrenaline leaves her body. If you want to learn more, you can at the following link on emotional flooding.

Now to your specific questions.


Does anyone have experience dealing with a partner like this? How do you respond to their behavior?

Yes. With the help of a sex therapist I worked on not allowing her cause me to fight with her. The ST once described my wife's outbursts as acting like a spoiled teenager. I learned to be the calm adult in the room. She would try to pick a fight with me so that she could emotionally distance herself from me. Often times it seemed like she wanted to prove she was emotionally stronger and more right than I was. Kind of at times like a rebellous power struggle.

I respond by not taking the bait to engage in a fight. I listen and if it is especially troubling, will tell her that she seems to be emotionally flooded and that we should discuss this and her feelings at a specific time usually after dinner in one or two days. When the time comes for the discussion, she would either try to start another fight (in which case, I would calmly tell her that we will discuss what happened on another day), aplogize, or claim she had no memory of what happened and deny that anything happened. I have asked her if I should turn the cell phone voice recorder on in the future so it can help her memory. She says absolutely not. I would then tell her we are going to need to calmly discuss what she says when it really hurts me and that I will not take no for an answer.
How can I prioritize myself and my needs, while also prioritizing my family and my daughter's needs? Prioritized you needs, just don't demand that they be resolved immediately, let her calm down so the two of you can rationally discuss what happened. Forcing the discussion timing will just increase the level of emotional flooding, at least in my case. 
Has anybody ignored the conventional wisdom of standing up for oneself, and just bending backwards for their partner for the sake of their family? Did the gains outweigh the losses long-term? I have tried that and most of the time it only worked for a short time. Becoming the adult in the room, and not allowing her to not discuss hurtful things she said produced much better long term results.
Again, you are not me and your wife is not my wife, so things could be different for you.

I see her admitting to you at times that she was wrong as a very good sign. 

You might want to ask her (in as gentle and non-threatening a way possible) when she is really calm, what kind of role model she is setting for your daughters future relationships with men. That might create a real "deer in the headlights" moment that will cause her to do some serious introspection on changing her behavior patterns.

Good luck.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

She's a "Loving wife"??

A "Loving wife" wouldn't pull this crap!!!


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

qwerster said:


> I will need to be patient and give this new approach of mine more time, and hopefully she stops all her immature crap. I will be back with updates - hopefully good ones 🙏


Yes, pretty much this. She's acting like a spoiled child, so you have to treat her like one. You don't let a spoiled brat have their way, because it's rewarding their bad behavior. It also just makes them more spoiled and brattier. 

You wouldn't let your daughter scream and yell and throw a fit and say horrible things, would you? 

Don't let your wife either. Make those boundaries and stick to them. She will definitely push back at first, because she is used to getting her way. Stand firm. Calmly disengage and walk away when she has an outburst. I know it's hard. You probably want to defend against her nasty words, but don't. It only causes escalation. 

Good luck.


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## Thisnotthat (Oct 28, 2020)

My wife of 25 years shows very similar behavior to yours. Does she also have similar emotional episodes right before birthdays, anniversaries, and visits to extended family? Does it happen more often when you (husband) are under stress from other circumstances such as work stress or school deadlines? 

As someone pointed out upthread, the behaviors are very similar to BPD, yet my spouse has never exhibited the extreme behaviors associated with BPD (self harm, sexual acting out, destructive decisions in other areas of life...). So lets just label what your wife and mine have as "rhymes with borderline personality disorder" or RWBPD; a new diagnosis we just invented for this discussion by laypeople completely unqualified to make real diagnoses. 

As far as advice goes, sadly your going to have to emotionally distance from your spouse in some ways if you intend to stay with her. Emotional connection requires a sense of trust and vulnerability. Yet that same emotional vulnerability on your part will open up the worst of your wife's behaviors. I have no idea why this is. I think they set you up as the rock and center of their world, and so any sense of uncertainty or vulnerability from you seems to cause them deep uncertainty, so they break out the crazy woman "$hit tests" to try and regain some emotional equilibrium. I get the feeling that their sense of self is very fragile, and because of that, anything like counseling or even honest conversations can send them into a spiral of discomfort and uncertainty that they just find completely unacceptable. Further advice, you'll have to be very certain about your decisions and how you live your life. For example, if your planning a trip to see family, just be clear and upfront; "I'm going to see family this day to do this thing, your always welcome to attend or not, as you choose", then when the arrows start to fly, you just re-state what you said and stick with the plan. You'll have to look to yourself and others for emotional and moral certainty, as well as emotional comfort. 

As an example, I suffered the unexpected loss of a sibling and a parent within a few weeks of each other. At the lowest of my lows through the grief process, I decided to just take a walk through the forest nearby. My wife wanted to go along, which I was fine with, but I'd prefaced the walk by saying I didn't feel like talking and just wanted to walk (welcome to deep grief...). She came along but my silence was so unnerving to her that she became very critical and accusatory, to the point I finally just told her that she'd be walking home on another trail without me so that I could go walking on my own to find some solace in nature. The uncertainty that my solace seeking silence must have had just blinded her to any insight or sense of how badly I was hurting, and she was incapable of simply walking with a friend. Unfortunately that's a typical event. I no longer take walks with my spouse. Despite her good intentions and reassurances, she's just not capable of spending time with me without emitting a constant stream of thought and reassurance seeking, and I'm not always able to provide that, or even be patient with it anymore. If you try to "stay in tune" with her or be emotionally in synch, I fear you'll be on an emotional rollercoaster that you can't predict or control. 

Welcome to RWBPD, and I apologize for casting things in such a negative light. If you haven't already, research BPD and do look into "No More Mr Niceguy" and similar material, and good luck with everything!


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## childofillusion (Apr 1, 2021)

qwerster said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a recovering "nice guy", trying to figure out the best way to deal with my wife's moods. We've been married for 5 years and have always fought a lot, always over very minor things. Even she admits we don't really have any real problems. However, when I do something that annoys her (especially when she is in a mood, is tired, or has other things bottled up), she goes from 0 to 100 in seconds and nothing do can calm her down. She would say a lot of hurtful things about me as a father and husband, stop doing anything that she was supposed to do (class, preplanned trips, meet-ups with our friends, cook, etc) and lock herself in the room. Trying to talk to her, no matter how calmly, only makes her even more incensed.
> 
> ...


I have come back from the same predicament. Exploring passive aggressive narcism syndrome, which seems to absolutely fit your wife, was key to my current happy life, without her. Very late in my life though and hopefully not too late.

Please get yourself and your kids, if any, out of there... and make it fast! Real fast my friend.. at any reasonable cost.


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## reenaict (Mar 17, 2021)

Firstly, understand the root cause of such kind of behavior. She is expressing her negative feelings indirectly instead of openly talking about them. It is not a mental illness. She may be feeling insecure, increasingly dependent, unheard, or powerless, and needs help to get out of it.

You are showing great patience, but somewhere it seems you have started to back down. A passive-aggressive person may keep behaving this way and use these tactics to make their position secure. Hence find out a way to not submit under pressure.

Try to make your home environment open, friendly, and secure. You all can have healthy conversations, where you all can share your feelings.

If you see some positive change from her side, appreciate her effort. Comfort her and listen to her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

reenaict said:


> Firstly, understand the root cause of such kind of behavior. She is expressing her negative feelings indirectly instead of openly talking about them. It is not a mental illness. She may be feeling insecure, increasingly dependent, unheard, or powerless, and needs help to get out of it.
> 
> You are showing great patience, but somewhere it seems you have started to back down. A passive-aggressive person may keep behaving this way and use these tactics to make their position secure. Hence find out a way to not submit under pressure.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you have never dealt with someone with a personality disorder or dysfunctional behaviors.

This wife chooses her reactions, she doesn't care to change them, and the only thing that's going to make a difference is if she wants to learn different ways of reacting to life. The answer isn't OP manipulating --what sounds like a normal environment-- so she doesn't have an episode.


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