# Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

These other posts may help give a background of my story; 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/45912-im-tired-boss-just-so-tired.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...47446-what-point-does-wife-become-abuser.html

So at what point am I allowed to say enough is enough? I no longer want to take responsibility or ownership of her mental difficiencies which have been part of the cause of my own anger over 14 years. Is it wrong morally or otherwise for me to want to separate and salvage some of my life so I can be a better dad to my children? 

The past 7 months have been the worst of my life, outside of my parents passing away. I've lost two jobs because I'm told I'm not carrying my weight or not being prepared. This is very unlike me. In the past month, one of our cars have died and the other required over $1000 in repairs. 

This past weekend my wife decides to have a nervous breakdown in the middle of one of her temper tantrums. 

I'm in the worst predicament ever. I don't know what to do. I want to get as far away from her as possible. I have to find a job. I have to get my car repaired so I can bring in an income. I'm already tapped out financially and now all this? When will it stop?


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

lick - first, my sympathy. I can relate to a LOT of what you wrote. You are in a very bad situation, and I commend you for sticking it out this long. When can you say enough is enough? Whenever you damn choose to say that, but you need to do some work before making your move. Go see a lawyer to learn your rights, and get smart on child custody laws in your state.

Now, I'm going to have to get on you a bit. I looked at your other threads. Too much "she, she, she..." Where's the part where you write about the work you're doing on you? I just read through _Codependent No More_ and a lot of it hit home. You might want to check it out. You sound FN shellshocked and codependent, with good reason. You need to get yourself strong for the sake of those kids.


----------



## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Is she actually diagnosed with bipolar disorder? Your original post sounds like it almost could have been written about my wife. Part of the reason I didn't find a job outside the home for several years was that I was afraid nothing would get done, kids taken care of, etc if I did. And I was a classic "nice guy" afraid of my wife's anger. 

It turns out she was, in fact, bipolar and was recently diagnosed after a severe manic episode with psychosis. She's now in treatment and I'm making changes for myself after reading Athol Kay and Rober Glover's books. 

I told her finally I'll be here to help her for the rest of my life, but I will not allow her to abuse me anymore and I will not let my children go through bipolar episode after bipolar episode if she won't stay on treatment. Her choice.

You can't make her do anything. All you can do is what's best for you and hope she sees you and the kids as worth helping herself for.


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Now, I'm going to have to get on you a bit. I looked at your other threads. Too much "she, she, she..." Where's the part where you write about the work you're doing on you?


Thunder - I hear you. Believe me I know where I have gone wrong in all this. WE wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for ME going wrong from the beginning. I am angry partly because I allowed myself to become involved in the first place. I tried the best I could to explain my position without the posts being extremely long. My faults are in I don't _react_ to dealing with someone's mental issues very well. It's not something I want to do. I know - she is my wife, I selected her. However, I was totally unaware of her mental issues before we were married. It's something that was kept secret from me until it was too late.

I am codependent to Drover's point where I feel nothing will get done in my absence. I do not work from home, therefore her presence is needed to take care of the kids. I simply don't make enough to support a family of four and pay for day care. And she can't stay "up" long enough to keep a job of any kind. 

Drover's answer is helpful. The problem is I don't think I love her enough to stick it out and help. She has been such an emotional anchor over time, I feel my own efforts of being a "partner" have been abused. Her sense of entitlement drags me down and I allow it.


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

You are not alone in all of this because my ex was bi-polar/manic depressive and I put up with a lot of weird stuff and kept straddling the fence on leaving her, but then once things got to a point where she began hitting and striking me I knew then that it was.........OVER! And I have never hit a woman and I am a huuuuge advocate against that so it left me defensless in those moments and situations, so I began just cursing her out and then up and leaving each time and got tired of having to do that!


----------



## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

licketesplit, Go read Nor More Mr. Nice Guy and The Married Man Sex Life Primer. They'll teach you to stop enabling her crap and focus on yourself.


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

She has become increasingly physical with me as well. She used to just throw things or break things around the house. I have scars all over my arms from the scratches I have taken from her over the years. She now leashes out at my face and neck. 

It's a double edge sword. She has me where she wants me though because I screwed up and grabbed her around the throat once in the heat of the moment and she had me arrested. This was soon after we were married. I took my medicine and thought we would be able to move on past that. But oh no. She uses that one instance against me whenever she chooses and actually uses it to provoke further physical contact with me. 

So with that out there, I know I'm screwed when it comes to divorce court. I know I'm screwed when it comes to financial support. I know I'm screwed when it comes to child custody or support. She has one documented case of domestic violence against me and I have a life of undocumented hell to deal with in return.


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Its sad if you already have yourself pegged as not being able to do anything all. You're not to blame for her condition, I'm sure you are aware of that. You're also not responsible for continuing to stay in that situation, just because she has a mental illness. I just read not long ago about that very thing. So many people stay with a mentally ill partner because they think they should. There is a lot of guilt there over it all. Once you realize you need to take care of you for a change, and that if you ever truly become tired of it all and understand you deserve a happy healthy life even if it means being with that other person, then and only then will you know when to move on.


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

lickitesplit said:


> She has become increasingly physical with me as well. She used to just throw things or break things around the house. I have scars all over my arms from the scratches I have taken from her over the years. She now leashes out at my face and neck.


Call 911 the next time she leaves a mark. 

You think you're stuck, but you aren't. My sitch isn't all that great either, but you need to get out. I'd go live in a men's shelter before putting up with that crap on a regular basis.

My W has "punched" me a few times in the arms/chest. She usually first blocks my exit, so I somewhat have to take it (I won't put my hands on her). She hits/pushes like a little gnat (I outweigh her by 70 lbs), so I'm not too worried about that. Still...it's beyond F**ked up and unacceptable to live like this.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

If you were dealing with a medical condition like MS or spinal damage or cancer would you blame yourself? Real mental illness is real. It's a real thing. You can see it on an MRI. There is something chemically, neurologically or structurally different with that person.


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

Drover said:


> licketesplit, Go read Nor More Mr. Nice Guy and The Married Man Sex Life Primer. They'll teach you to stop enabling her crap and focus on yourself.


A review of "No More Mr Nice Guy" from Amazon. 

"Around 50%+ of marriages end in divorce and usually the mother has primary custody. This places the boy in a subservient position to women and minimizes the father's influence. The mother has a profound influence in upbringing of the boy. Mothers teach their daughters to be more independent and teach their sons to be "nice boys" - dependent on women's approval. During the formative years (0-5 years), most of the boy's school teachers are women, so they learn to be subservient to women. The boy must be nice to gain the teacher's approval and earn good grades. In essence, most of the boy's power figures are women and he must be nice to win their approval. Nice guys learn that their needs are not important or having needs contrary to the women's needs is bad, so they try to please others and become miserable in the process. They become wimps, doormats, nice guys - whatever to avoid conflict in relationships and try to make their women happy."

I'll be damned. This describes me to a T. The result however is that over time in my relationships and carrying over into my marriage, I transformed into a selfish prick. It's just very unfortunate that I got matched up with THE woman I that I did. Try combining a "pleaser" with someone who in contrast, was brought up in an environment of entitlement.


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Abuse of any kind is never acceptable. Sometimes people will continue to hurt others because that person is allowing it to continue. Boundaries need to be set, and if she continues to cross them, you need to figure out the next step.


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Leaving my bi-polar ex was the best and smartest decision I have ever made & don't miss her one bit now.


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Leaving my bi-polar ex was the best and smartest decision I have ever made & don't miss her one bit now.


Did you have any complicating circumstances like children, single income family, or anything that would have made your decision more difficult?


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

lickitesplit said:


> Did you have any complicating circumstances like children, single income family, or anything that would have made your decision more difficult?


She had two kids from a previous marriage that were not mine, and we were only together for like 3 years and had no real ties to speak of. She just kept convincing me over and over and over that everything was going to get better and change, and she usually coupled that with wild sex and food to get my attention and plead her case(and she was great in bed and great in the kitchen).


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> ...and she usually coupled that with wild sex and food to get my attention and plead her case(and she was great in bed and great in the kitchen).


Well you definitely have a leg up on me there...no pun intended. 

I'm the cook in my family and the sex has never really been that good (IMHO). I mean, perhaps if the sex was great, I could find it a little easier to deal with all the other BS in the relationship. Take away the physical attraction, there is nothing to look forward to.


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

lickitesplit said:


> Well you definitely have a leg up on me there...no pun intended.
> 
> I'm the cook in my family and the sex has never really been that good (IMHO). I mean, perhaps if the sex was great, I could find it a little easier to deal with all the other BS in the relationship. Take away the physical attraction, there is nothing to look forward to.


Let's just say that she was quite the wild freak, and I guess to compensate for all the drama and bullsh*t she puts people through felt she had to be all that. But I can honestly say that was some of the wildest and kinkiest sex that I have ever had - bar none, but it would've taken a lot more for me to stay especially after she began to physically strike me the last 3 or 4 months we were together.


----------



## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Let's just say that she was quite the wild freak, and I guess to compensate for all the drama and bullsh*t she puts people through felt she had to be all that. But I can honestly say that was some of the wildest and kinkiest sex that I have ever had - bar none, but it would've taken a lot more for me to stay especially after she began to physically strike me the last 3 or 4 months we were together.


My stbxw would only give me the kinky and wild sex she 'claimed' she liked when she wanted something or was trying to get on my good side. It was always great and rewarding.

She'd bull the etch-a-sketch routine on me as soon as she got what she wanted. My attraction to her was still there and given the chance now, I'm sure I couldn't hold myself back from physical contact with her, but once she got what she wanted, it was back to missionary for 5 minutes of blah sex.


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

geek down said:


> My stbxw would only give me the kinky and wild sex she 'claimed' she liked when she wanted something or was trying to get on my good side. It was always great and rewarding.
> 
> She'd bull the etch-a-sketch routine on me as soon as she got what she wanted. My attraction to her was still there and given the chance now, I'm sure I couldn't hold myself back from physical contact with her, but once she got what she wanted, it was back to missionary for 5 minutes of blah sex.


My ex was on a few meds for her disorder and I guess fortuneatly for me one of the side effects of those meds was an increased _sex drive_, and so she was horny and ready to go A LOT and it even got to a point where we were doing it soooo much - that I didn't want anymore for awhile. There were times that she was so good and so creative in the bedroom it had me wondering "hmmmm".


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As someone who has battled lifelong severe manic depression I can attest that it's not fun, it's not charming or sexy and even in the throes of the most manic of manias sometimes killing yourself sounds like a pretty good plan. And on the good days you feel halfway normal but hopefully nothing at all, not good or bad. And in a depression you're so zonked out you can't get off the floor to shamble into the kitchen for a sharp enough knife to cut yourself. Or maybe you do and you get distracted and you wander outside half naked waving a knife around until the cops show up. 

In the past I have assaulted people I knew and didn't know. I have done horrible things I don't remember. I've been arrested locked away committed, beat up, molested, shocked, drugged, tied down, robbed, raped and left on the sidewalk for dead.

It's a sickness, like diabetes or arthritis. It never goes away it's only manageable or treatable and can't be cured. It's not your fault and there's little if anything you can do for a sufferer other than get them the medical help they need. 

Manic depressives massively self medicate. We all do if given the chance. Alcohol, drugs of any kind, all at the same time, chain smoking, anonymous frequent sex with anyone of either gender, spend money we don't have and steal it when we need some. We lie a lot to get what we want when we want it. We think we're wonderful when we're up and can't understand why drunk driving a stolen car with some hookers in the back seat is wrong. We are bottomless holes of need that can't ever be filled up with whatever we're chucking into the hole right now. It's never enough. No one can love us enough or punish us enough either. The only thing greater than our self love is our self loathing. We can be charming monsters and not know it.


----------



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> As someone who has battled lifelong severe manic depression I can attest that it's not fun, it's not charming or sexy and even in the throes of the most manic of manias sometimes killing yourself sounds like a pretty good plan. And on the good days you feel halfway normal but hopefully nothing at all, not good or bad. And in a depression you're so zonked out you can't get off the floor to shamble into the kitchen for a sharp enough knife to cut yourself. Or maybe you do and you get distracted and you wander outside half naked waving a knife around until the cops show up.
> 
> *In the past I have assaulted people I knew and didn't know*. I have done horrible things I don't remember. I've been arrested locked away committed, beat up, molested, shocked, drugged, tied down, robbed, raped and left on the sidewalk for dead.
> 
> ...


I highlighted the part that was the deciding factor for me in leaving my ex totally for good, because after she began striking me hard on a few occasions that is when I decided it was time to...............GO! And she was 5'10 and 160 lbs so she could pack quite a wallop but I have never laid my hands on any woman - and still haven't, so the only choice I had was to get far away from her and that situation I found myself in. She did attempt to stalk me - follow me - and beg me to come back or she'd kill herself, but thankfully I held my ground and threatened her with a restraining order until she stopped and she never did kill herself and is now married AGAIN for the 4th time!


----------



## jenniferswe (Apr 23, 2012)

I am a bipolar wife and is under treatment. If she isn't already, she needs to get treatment and get stabilized. Once she is stabilized, she needs to stay on her meds. no matter if she thinks she needs them or not. I don't throw tantrums or get violent. My last nervous breakdown was almost a decade ago. I wasn't getting proper treatment at the time and on the wrong medication. I had, also gone through a very difficult period in my that included divorce and raising a special needs child. I got the proper help and meds. and eventually stabilized. My you're wife get help from a good mental health professional. She will get a lot better when that happens.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

lickitesplit said:


> Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll


Lick, most behaviors you describe -- e.g., the blame-shifting, always being "The Victim," verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, sense of entitlement, and strong need for frequent validation -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- not bipolar disorder. 

I therefore agree with Conrad (5/30 post) that you seem to be describing traits of a PD. Indeed, except for "bipolar" appearing in the title of your last thread, I've never seen you mention the term in any of your posts. I caution that having strong traits of a PD does not imply a person has the full-blown disorder. Only a professional can make that determination. It nonetheless is not difficult to spot the red flags, i.e., the strong traits if they are present.

I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found many clear differences between the two disorders.

*One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _hating you_. Significantly, you speak a lot about her harsh criticisms and temper tantrums against you but you mention nothing about mania.

*A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. The latter therefore seems consistent with your description of numerous temper tantrums. (Although hyper rapid cycling can occur in some bipolar sufferers, it is very rare.)

*A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, these short-duration rages seem consistent with with the tantrums you describe.

*A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Significantly, the behavior you describe is consistent with these event-triggered outbursts.

*A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry. Indeed, bipolar sufferers typically have good childhoods because the mood swings usually do not start occurring until the late teens. In contrast, 70% of BPDers report that they were abused or abandoned in childhood. And the type of abuse most strongly associated with BPD is childhood sexual abuse, which your W experienced.

*A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of very hateful, spiteful behavior in which she is throwing things, scratching you, and physically hitting you.

*A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing to TRIGGER a sudden release of the anger that is already there -- which seems consistent with your description.

*An eight difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

*Finally, a ninth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. 

Lick, if you would like to read more about BPD traits, I suggest you take a look at my posts in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Keep in mind that your W could have both disorders. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that about half of the people suffering from bipolar-I disorder also suffer from full blown BPD. Take care, Lick.


----------



## lickitesplit (May 9, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Lick, most behaviors you describe -- e.g., the blame-shifting, always being "The Victim," verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, sense of entitlement, and strong need for frequent validation -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- not bipolar disorder.....


Uptown, THANK YOU! You may be on to something there. I never mentioned some of these things you referenced because I was locked in on what appeared to be symptoms of bi-polar disease or severe cases of depression. 

Either way, I am very curious to learn more about BPD. Your detailed descriptions are VERY HELPFUL and VERY ACCURATE. Thank you!


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lick, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful.


lickitesplit said:


> I am very curious to learn more about BPD.!


Lick, as an initial matter, if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I strongly recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her. If she is unwilling to seek therapy, it does no good to insist that she go. Unless a BPDer really wants therapy, she likely would only play mind games with the therapist and waste your money.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. Both books are written by the same author, Randi Kreger.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at _BPDfamily.com_ -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The two boards that likely will be most helpful to you are the "_Leaving_" board and "_Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD_" board.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with -- and how likely it is your wife may pass it on to your two children if she actually does have strong BPD traits. As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder.

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your experiences here at TAM, you likely are helping numerous people. The hit count for this thread, for example, is already close to 600.


----------

