# Seeking Advice



## Abe (Aug 10, 2010)

I am not sure of all the acronyms but here is my story: 
I am a divorced man in a committed relationship and now engaged with a beautiful fiance. My ex-wife remains in the picture because we have a child together. My fiance and I recently moved in together. My daughter has always wanted to live with me but I have never been able to provide her with that because after I divorced her mother, I moved back into my mother's house. 
In order to ensure my ex-wife did not give me any resistance as to having my daughter live with me, I did something that i regret dearly. I had text exchanges with my ex-wife to make her feel she was getting her way. The texts were not sexual in nature or anything of the sort but none the less they could be perceived as flirting. 
It started off by me ignoring her but she would get upset and threaten to take me to court. Never stated what she would do or file or ask for in court but just take me to court. So being "nice" to her seemed to work. I also did not want her to get "crazy" and interfere with my new relationship. 
For the record, I do not have a passcode on my phones, I do not lock them or anything. 
My fiance found my phone one evening and saw some of these messages. She considers it cheating. In my heart, I know what I was doing and it certainly was not cheating. It has brought our relationship to a bad place. It has added a level of stress we did not need along with the normal "blended family" struggles we have.
My question to you all is, how, if at all, can I make her realize that this was not cheating and that I was doing it to protect our relationship?

Is this considered cheating?

Thoughts on guidance (ie counseling or therapy) would be greatly appreciated.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Abe said:


> I am not sure of all the acronyms but here is my story:
> I am a divorced man in a committed relationship and now engaged with a beautiful fiance. My ex-wife remains in the picture because we have a child together. My fiance and I recently moved in together. My daughter has always wanted to live with me but I have never been able to provide her with that because after I divorced her mother, I moved back into my mother's house.
> In order to ensure my ex-wife did not give me any resistance as to having my daughter live with me, I did something that i regret dearly. I had text exchanges with my ex-wife to make her feel she was getting her way. The texts were not sexual in nature or anything of the sort but none the less they could be perceived as flirting.
> It started off by me ignoring her but she would get upset and threaten to take me to court. Never stated what she would do or file or ask for in court but just take me to court. So being "nice" to her seemed to work. I also did not want her to get "crazy" and interfere with my new relationship.
> ...


I Feel for you, I am worried about this exact same predicament in the future and not sure how I would handle it either.

Unfortunately I don't really have any advice for you but I hope everything works out for the best for you and your daughter.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Abe said:


> I am not sure of all the acronyms but here is my story:
> I am a divorced man in a committed relationship and now engaged with a beautiful fiance. My ex-wife remains in the picture because we have a child together. My fiance and I recently moved in together. My daughter has always wanted to live with me but I have never been able to provide her with that because after I divorced her mother, I moved back into my mother's house.
> In order to ensure my ex-wife did not give me any resistance as to having my daughter live with me, I did something that i regret dearly. I had text exchanges with my ex-wife to make her feel she was getting her way. The texts were not sexual in nature or anything of the sort but none the less they could be perceived as flirting.
> It started off by me ignoring her but she would get upset and threaten to take me to court. Never stated what she would do or file or ask for in court but just take me to court. So being "nice" to her seemed to work. I also did not want her to get "crazy" and interfere with my new relationship.
> ...


I consider flirting with your ex a form of cheating. Certainly not like getting physical with them, but very dangerous (as you've learned) to your current relationship. Not only because it can make your fiance jealous, but also because it sends the wrong message to your ex who will be in your *and your fiance's* life because of the child.

What is an example of something "flirty" that you said to her?

My advice - 
1. Come clean with your fiance about why you did what you did (sounds like you have).
2. Don't EVER do it again. You do not have to be mean and nasty to your ex, you just need to be "professional" and keep boundaries up. Do not open that door, even a crack. And if she crosses the line, rebuff her kindly but clearly.

Do not ever stay quiet if she insults your fiance.
Do not discuss things OTHER than your child with your ex.
Do not have long conversations.
Do not send Christmas cards.
Do not tell her she looks good.
Do not hug her or let her hug you.
Do not rescue her when her car breaks down.
Do not loan her money.
Do not EVER put her ahead of your Fiance in any way.

And, when dealing with your fiance, remember my golden rule:
*If you can't say something bad about your ex, don't say anything at all!*

There is one reason and one reason only to communicate with your ex - dealing with the welfare/raising of your child.

Dr. Harley of Marriage Builders has written some things on blended families. Here's the first that came up in my search engine, but if you search around there is even more.
Blended Families #1

Also good is the Policy of Joint Agreement, where neither you nor your fiance do anything unless there is enthusiastic agreement from both of you. Including how you raise your daughter and relate to ex wife.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

Understand that both you and your fiance are coming from very different perspectives. You feel guilty toward your child, and you just want peace. Your fiance wants to be you wife, which means number 1 in your life, but she's already displaced from the natural order of things in marriage by your child and ex wife.

Good luck - blended families are hard under the best of circumstances.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cheating is whatever a couple defines it as. If the couple do not agree on what constitutes cheating, there is a problem. Most people assume the other half of their twosome thinks the same way they do about what cheating is, but this is rarely the case. It's the discussion no one wants to have.

If you texted stuff to your ex that "could be perceived as flirting" then you DID do something wrong. Whether you think it's cheating or not is totally irrelevant. 

Asking US what you can do to make it up to your fiance is pointless. Ask your fiance. And then DO WHATEVER SHE SAYS. Cheerfully and in good faith.

You may want to make sure she doesn't carry it too far, though. As in, doesn't make you pay forever and a day and bring it up every time you do the slightest things wrong for the next ten years. You also might want to evaluate whether you and she are on the same page with things like porn, phone passcodes, facebook friends, girls nights out, etc etc etc. All those slippery things that many women seem to assume their man will never do but he assumes are perfectly fine, and that she has always done with her single friends and assumes he is fine with.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Kinda depends on what you said.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Can you give us some examples of what was said between you and your ex?

"Thanks so much for buying new play clothes for daughter last week!" is FAR different than "You looked HOT last week when you dropped off daughter's new play clothes!"

So which was it?


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## Abe (Aug 10, 2010)

WOW! I posted on several forums and this is by far the best responses I have got. So to be clear, The action is done and I admit I did something WRONG.....really WRONG. And I am certainly apologetic and have apologized. I will never do that again. It was an idea I thought was for the better good of my situation and I never intend to jeopardize that again with something so hurtful.

Now I ask for guidance because I am stuck and was hoping that perhaps someone may have had similar experiences and could provide and share those experiences on how to make this better. 

Thank you all for the words of encouragement and for the time it took to write out these thoughtful content filled responses. I am very glad I came here.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

If you share some of the "flirty" exchanges with your ex, this forum will give you unbiased and frankly blunt feedback on them. It really depends on the language and tone of your exchanges IMO. There is playing nice, and then there is flirting. 

I have a similar situation with my gf of 5 years and my ex. I have to play nice with my ex for a variety of reasons, but it irks my gf. Understand that there is a natural 'side competition' going on between your ex and your fiancee.

Your fiancee also has to understand in no uncertain terms that your child comes first, even before your fiancee (if that's how you feel, and it should be). You will have to make sacrifices for your child from time to time. Just the way it is.


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## Abe (Aug 10, 2010)

I would just be generally nice...and a few times I bought her a bottle of alcohol. I figured to do this to keep her "quiet" from taking me to court and stuff.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Abe,

Alot may depend on your Fiances experiences, for example if she had been cheated on by ex'es then there is a reasonable chance your Fiance found out by observing some kind of messaging. You may have stepped on a trip wire.

However beyond that all contact with females should be open to your Fiances examination, so that you there is not even the appearance of wrong doing. Beyond that you should be honest with your Fiance about your sexual and romantic past, if she can't handle it then it's ok if you don't get married.

Tamat


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

If your communications with your ex are nothing beyond what you would exchange with a coworker whom you are friendly/jovial with, then your fiancee needs to chill and work on her self esteem.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

You cannot cheat unless there is a rule against it. Was there any vow that you would not text your ex about your divorce? If you have not broken any rule with your fiancee, it does not meet the definition of cheating. I do not know why you are worried about this if it is as innocent as you say.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Dealing with an ex due to children is the worst part about new relationships. It's been the only issue my recent fiance and I "argue" about. You just have to make sure you tell her she's #1 in your life and you have to prove it. Women are something else! lol.

So, what exactly did your fiance see in the text messages?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Open up an tell your intended everything you did and why. It seems that you were trying to manipulate you Ex-wife which rarely turns out the way you expect.
Just be honest.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Abe, for me the issue is around your privacy walls. 

Imagine that a married (or engaged) couple builds a wall around the two of them. The two of you inside, everyone else - outside. Inside that wall, you have secrets that are just between the two of you. Outside that wall you can have other walls appropriate for family and friends. But, when you interact with anyone else, you NEVER build a privacy wall that excludes your spouse from your relationship with that other person i.e. no secrets that exclude your spouse/fiance. 

I don't know what you said to your ex. Maybe it wasn't even that flirtatious. But, whilst you may not have overtly "hidden" it from your fiancee, you didn't openly share it with her either. I haven't had the stress of being in a second marriage with managing my kids and ex from my first; but if I was in that situation, I imagine what I'd want to be certain of is that my fiance's first loyalty lay with me and vice versa. 

I'd suggest that you first discuss future interactions with your ex, with your fiance. Don't just keep her in the loop, but actively engage her in how you are managing your relationship with your ex right for the start. It probably isn't always practical, but where possible, ask her opinion on important messages you send to your ex before you send them. You're not asking her permission, but you are giving her insight into what (and more importantly why) you're saying whatever it is you're saying. You're also giving her the security of knowing that she can never be surprised by anything that your ex may claim you said/did. 

It may be necessary for you to seem "nicer" (although this should have limits) towards your ex than you actually feel. If your fiance knows firstly, that you're doing it and secondly, why you're doing it, then (if I were her) I'd feel completely secure in your priorities.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Abe said:


> In order to ensure my ex-wife did not give me any resistance as to having my daughter live with me, I did something that i regret dearly. I had text exchanges with my ex-wife to make her feel she was getting her way. The texts were not sexual in nature or anything of the sort but none the less they could be perceived as flirting.



Abe, I've been around long enough to know of an acronym your looking for. Its YFOS. (you're full of shyt) I know why you were toying around with your ex wife. You do to. Hint, its got little to do with your daughter. But it sounds good. Stick to it and maybe your new squeeze will let you slide. In the meantime, have fun diddling with both these women.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Abe said:


> I would just be generally nice...and a few times I bought her a bottle of alcohol. I figured to do this to keep her "quiet" from taking me to court and stuff.


Well, what did the text messages consist of? Your fiance needs to understand co-parenting can be a tough situation and a balancing act to keep the peace. So, your offered a bottle of alcohol to the mother of your child. I do not see an issue here. But again, what did the texts consist of? Working both women?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

This is a good post.

I would add, it's very common for the person in Abe's position to have an instinct to try to hide/minimize the interaction with the ex from the current love. It's a natural instinct because, as someone else said, there is a natural jealousy/competition between the ex and current one. But as soon as you become the slightest bit evasive, you start FEEDING the insecurity of your current partner. You're trying to humor your ex, but you're hiding that from your current and your current feels it.

One thing you can do from here on out is to try to include your fiance in any interactions with your ex. You need to drop off or pick up the child? Invite your fiance to join you, use it as an opportunity to take her out for a quick bite/treat/walk in the park just the two of you before the exchange, or the two of you and your child together afterward. 

Even if she doesn't want to go, the invitation will make her feel less insecure that you're having personal time with the ex.

You need to talk with your ex about your child's grades, medical condition, summer camp, whatever -- talk with your fiance about it first. Any time you talk with your ex, mention it to your fiance. And try to avoid it when not necessary. Think of it this way - if you didn't have a child togehter, there would be NO reason for you to be visiting her to take her booze or just talk or whatever when you're engaged to someone else. Anything you wouldn't want your fiance talking about or doing with her ex's should be off limits.

Also, be honest with yourself about how much of your unnecessary niceness is really about custody. I'm not saying it's not, but the things you've done are very typical for men in your situation (as is your fiance's reaction typical for women in her situation). And the real reason most men do it are 1) to keep the peace/avoid conflict, and 2) Because it feels good to have your ex regret losing you/still need you. That's human nature. But indulging it will ruin your current relationship.

Buying the ex booze was definitely a bad idea, IMO. @Abe, I'd still like an example of something flirty that you said to your ex.




Mizzbak said:


> Abe, for me the issue is around your privacy walls.
> 
> Imagine that a married (or engaged) couple builds a wall around the two of them. The two of you inside, everyone else - outside. Inside that wall, you have secrets that are just between the two of you. Outside that wall you can have other walls appropriate for family and friends. But, when you interact with anyone else, you NEVER build a privacy wall that excludes your spouse from your relationship with that other person i.e. no secrets that exclude your spouse/fiance.
> 
> ...


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## Copingwithit (Nov 8, 2012)

You lied and got caught.. What I mean by that is you were doing something behind your Fiance back even if it was to keep the peace with the Ex wife but you did it behind her back.

Now you want to submit evidence about the past but have nothing to back it up beyond you have to believe me. 

I equate this to my Ex Fiance telling me she got a call or text messages months ago but didn't show me. So now when I accuse of of wrong doing she would get all offended and mad.. 

You have no leg to stand on.. Whether you were stupid or short sighted. If you are going to do something that clearly is off color you need to simply tell your partner.. Hey look if I fight with her it will be worse.. Do you mind if I suck up to her not to get into a fight ? I'm right here you can see what I am going to text her so she will STFU.. You can okay it before I send it..

But other than that.. Are you divorced from your ex wife ? What more can she do to you ? Are you hiding something from her ? 

So she takes you to court ? What happens.. She can't keep asking for more money unless there is a change in your income by a certain percentage ? 
She can't go in and say he got a dollar rise I want my 50 cents..

Further if your daughter wants to be with you.. I am sure that will be a court fight.. No one is going to give away child support they are getting and in turn pay it themselves..

Only thing you can do is apologize as you did already and don't do stupid sh!t like this again.. NO SECRETS....NEVER...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You should really tell us what you said. Currently, I'm fence sitting. I know what you did, I was nice as well, but you failed by not including your fiance. I rarely talked with my ex without my wife present. This isn't always feasible, but I always informed her of the conversations. Still, there is a catch-22 because everything could have been above board and your fiance would still be mad. Custody issues make you do stupid things. Nope, I'm not going vlad's route or the cheating route until I hear more. I still agree with those that call it cheating, but I am biased as I went through a similar situation.



You were wrong, but I can't say how wrong. This is the type of scenario I ALWAYS bring up to men who have a child in or out of wedlock. Trying to bypass child support and custody leads to all types of trouble. I was very nice, put myself on CS and promptly was protected. The most basic


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