# Wife had an affair 9 years ago



## idkaname

I don't know what to write. 9 years ago my wife had an affair. I can't wrap my mind around it. The room feels like it's spinning all the time. My marriage is a lie. I found out a week ago. I can't even look at her. It was the worst time in our lives and she was running around with some guy. I don't know what to do. I will never look at her the same. How could she do this?


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Sorry to hear. How did you find out?


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## mikey1

9 years is a long time.. they way you should look at it is can you get past knowing about it and still be committed to her.


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## Andy1001

mikey1 said:


> 9 years is a long time.. they way you should look at it is can you get past knowing about it and still be committed to her.


He only found out about it last week so to him it is a new affair. 
And if his wife doesn’t understand this then the marriage is over.  @idkaname did she confess or how did you find out.


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## idkaname

She didn't confess. A picture came up on amazon photo memories. She confessed after I saw it.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> She didn't confess. A picture came up on amazon photo memories. She confessed after I saw it.


So she was ready to take it to the grave with her. Unfortunately, you are married to someone you can never again trust. This could simply be the tip of the iceberg, there could possibly be more AP's. Any kids or can you make a clean break?


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## sokillme

How old are you, how long have you been married?

Right now the best thing you can do is detach. Maybe take a vacation by yourself, don't talk to her give her some consequences. Go talk to a lawyer see what your options are. 

DON'T rush back or be desperate about your marriage, you need to be strong and brave because right now is going to set the entire tone to your recovery. Acting desperate will only set you up for more pain. Unfortunately there is no way to change this, and YES it will effect the rest of your life. If you stay married or not. But you can recover from this and grow to be strong as steel. It will set you up for the rest of your life. 

You are right to be pissed and not want to look at her. At the very best she should have to work very hard to win you back, she doesn't deserve you.

The most important thing you need to figure out is how will you guarantee the best quality of life going forward. That may be with your wife or it may not. The requirement should be her to do whatever it takes to earn your forgiveness but that is not a reason to take her back. If you take her back it should be for selfish reasons. This is the dynamic she has set up for your marriage, at least for the foreseeable future it's only fair you act the same. 

Sadly you can not get the marriage you thought you had back. Better to accept that. You are now in a new marriage with a different person then you thought you had. 

I agree with UDW11 you should not believe a word she says, she is proven to be a liar. She has proven herself to be immoral and selfish don't assume this is the only affair. The wise thing is to assume he can lie to your face for her own selfish needs because she has proven it. Don't assume you have the whole story. 

DON'T BE WEAK. Fight RIGHT NOW for the best life YOU can get. It's no longer her it's YOU. See what she does with that. 

The ONE thing you should know is you will get through this and you will have joy again but you very well have more joy without her in it. You can use this to make yourself stronger if you face it head on with courage. 

I am sorry this happened to you. But your life is not over, but you must detach from her so YOU WILL SEE that you can have a great one without her if you strive for that. That is the best place you can be in from this. Then let her earn he way back if you still want her to, if not you will still be fine.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Echo above. If you aren't ready to make the divorce plunge, ask her to move out for awhile so you can get your thoughts together. Maybe she can stay with family or friends for a few weeks or if you can afford it you can rent her an apartment for a month. If you have kids, it gets more complicated, but you both can work out the logistics for a bit. It will be far easier going through this initial phase without her around as a constant reminder and most important it shows some consequences. If she can't accept your terms, see a lawyer and start that ball rolling.


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## idkaname

I have spent 20 years with me wife. 16 of those married. I'm 38 and my wife is 35. She is 35 weeks pregnant and we have a 3 and 4 year old. 

She didn't ever plan to confess. She claims her therapist instructed her not to tell me as long as the affair was over. 

I don't trust a word she says. I don't want her around me. I want to tell her to leave for a few days but I don't think I can legally do that.


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## 3Xnocharm

idkaname said:


> She didn't confess. A picture came up on amazon photo memories. She confessed after I saw it.


Oh no. I am sorry you are going through with this, how devastating. 

Expect that she will want to just sweep it under the rug, arguing that you have had such a good life together the last nine years. That it doesnt matter. Well yes, it DOES matter. Dont allow her to dismiss this, she has a lot of work to do if she wants to keep you.


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## 3Xnocharm

idkaname said:


> I have spent 20 years with me wife. 16 of those married. I'm 38 and my wife is 35. She is 35 weeks pregnant and we have a 3 and 4 year old.
> 
> She didn't ever plan to confess. She claims her therapist instructed her not to tell me as long as the affair was over.
> 
> I don't trust a word she says. I don't want her around me. I want to tell her to leave for a few days but I don't think I can legally do that.


You can ask her to go away for a bit, you cant legally MAKE her go.


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## Cletus

idkaname said:


> I don't trust a word she says. I don't want her around me. I want to tell her to leave for a few days but I don't think I can legally do that.


If you need space, make it for yourself. You don't need permission to leave for a time.

Don't do anything rash until you've had a chance to process things a bit, including discover why it happened and why she is still with you. Then you can decide rationally if you want to continue the marriage or not.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

idkaname said:


> I have spent 20 years with me wife. 16 of those married. I'm 38 and my wife is 35. She is 35 weeks pregnant and we have a 3 and 4 year old.
> 
> She didn't ever plan to confess. She claims her therapist instructed her not to tell me as long as the affair was over.
> 
> I don't trust a word she says. I don't want her around me. I want to tell her to leave for a few days but I don't think I can legally do that.


35 weeks? So she's ready to drop any time.

Talk about piling on stressors all at once! 

Very sorry for your tough times here. I'm sure this makes the whole being there and being supportive for the delivery incredibly tough. You're going to be going through all sorts of crazy emotions very soon piled on top of the very crazy ones you're going through right now.

Kinda' hard to be putting a lot of clear headed thought into how you're going to handle your suddenly broken marriage while you're also welcoming your new offspring into the world. 

Do you have a close friend or trusted clergy to talk to? May be a good time to get a little counseling of your own, if for no other reason that this is an incredible amount to try to process all at one time. We wish you strength and peace as you navigate this time.


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## Chaparral

You have to verify everything she says. Who was the affair with?

Let her know you have to DNA all your kids now.

What did you mean you were having a terrible time at that point in the marriage?


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## SecondWind

How do you know it was 9 years ago and that it actually ended? You don't even know if your toddler is yours, much less the child she is pregnant with.

If you are ever going to to move forward you'll have to know that your children are actually yours. So sorry you're dealing with this when all you should be thinking about is that you're going to be a daddy again.


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## idkaname

Perhaps I am out of line but I don't think I should be the one to leave the house.

The timing is horrible. She has been in the hospital 3 times in the last 8 days for pregnancy related issues caused by stress. She has never made it to 40 weeks. She has prolonged labours and the last thing I want to do right now is support her through that for days. How does custody even work with a breastfeeding newborn? I don't know what I want to do. I didn't think of DNA testing my kids. If she's telling the truth I wouldn't have to. That will bother me for the rest of my life now. 

She told me her story. Do the details matter? It involves a part of our life that I don't enjoy talking about.


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## Marc878

Is her other man a close friend or relative. If he's married the other spouse should be informed.

I would DNA your kids just to verify. They will always be yours. You raised them but....


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## Cletus

idkaname said:


> Perhaps I am out of line but I don't think I should be the one to leave the house.


As long as you're married, you don't have much of a position to order her out. Nor would that be a good idea right now with a near full-term wife.

As a decent human, you probably have to take one for the team here until your child is born. Even if you don't think she deserves that much respect right now, you won't like yourself six months down the road. If ending the marriage is your choice, better to make it well outside the delivery room. 



> She told me her story. Do the details matter? It involves a part of our life that I don't enjoy talking about.


The details matter more to you than to us. Affairs don't happen in a vacuum. The circumstances might lead you to be more or less forgiving, even though all you feel right now is rage.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

You need very detailed timeline of the affair. You need for her to answer ANY question you ask about affair. 

I would recommend a polygraph for her,too. DNA test on your children is imperative as it confirms they are yours and it emphasizes how much you do not trust her. You need the truth. 

Having such young children and one on the way, I hope you can work it out. This **** is tough but you can get through it. The question I have will she do what it takes to make it up to you? Maybe you can’t R. I do recommend you expose to family and close friends. Exposure in not an option should you go down this road, it is a necessity. She needs to feel tour pain and face consequences. I would tell you to ask her to leave the house, but not a good idea given the new arrival. You do not want her to do anything to harm the baby. I am sorry you are in such a predicament. Prayers for you.

I reconciled with my wife and I was hellbent on divorce for six weeks. Once I calmed down I asked myself if my life would be better without her or with her. We are going on 3 1/2 years of R. I am happy I chose to R. Do what is right for you but wait until you have time to weigh your options properly.


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## SongoftheSouth

Are you sure your kids are actually biologically yours? Probably means nothing legally at this point but it may put your mind at ease to know for sure. Sorry for what you are going through.


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## TJW

I can easily and well-understand that you do not want to support her through days and weeks of child delivery with this new knowledge besieging you. I'm aware of how this is going to be a painful experience for you. I think you won't regret doing it, though, in your future, no matter how your marriage works out.

You should, in absolutely no case, leave your house. You can't force her to leave, but if you ask and she voluntarily leaves for a time, it may help you two regain a sense of moving on with your lives, if this is what you choose. It is YOUR choice.

Custody of the unborn child will most certainly be given to his/her mother at this time of infant care necessity. I think you would have to prove drug addiction, felony guilt, etc, in order to have a court remove the child from his/her mother.



idkaname said:


> Do the details matter?


Details do not really help anything. They can be quite hurtful, too. Make sure you are ready for the answer to anything you ask. If it could possibly work against your desires going forward, I recommend you don't ask. Details are what ruined my marriage. It wasn't so much the adultery itself, it was the humiliation which came from the details which caused me to no longer want the marriage, and to no longer feel "safe" with her sexually.

As others have said, you will always be your children's dad. The biological predecession is really not relevant to them, they know who has been there for them.



idkaname said:


> I will never look at her the same.


Yes, that is unfortunately, quite true. Your trust of her will be gone forever. You will not be too enthusiastic about supporting her anymore, either.


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## TAMAT

Get a refund from the IC he caused you years of pain.

DNA the kids

Polygraph the wife

Expose the OM widely do not warn ANYONE


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## ConanHub

Sorry to hear it.

Your wayward wife and her therapist both decided to steal your agency and choice in the matter. Kind of feels like you've been raped huh?

Your wife and her therapist are both scum for doing that to you.

She needs to realize that behaving like a backstabbing skank 9 years ago was only one of many extremely evil things she did to you.

She denied you choice when she f'd around on you like a cheap gutter tramp, she then denied you choice when she decided to hide her adultery from you and keep you an in the dark cuckold, she also decided to not allow herself to apologise and make amends to you.

You are right, you can't trust a damn thing she says and you should tell her to thank her therapist for totally destroying your marriage even though she can look at her lying face in the mirror if she wants to see who to blame the most.

I guess she thinks a lying, backstabbing cheater is what you deserve to be married to?

She probably didn't think at all past her itchy twat to be honest.

She is just a self centered faithless woman.

She actually needs to realize this stuff about herself. It is hideously ugly but factual. Your wife is about as desirable as herpes and less trustworthy.

She has a long road to self discovery and owning her ****.

That leaves you. Kids are not a reason to remain married to this woman.

Your health needs to be considered and the health of your children and that is primary.

Get some help other than this forum, like counseling, trusted friends and family. You should not go through this alone and make no mistake, your wife is not your friend or Ally at this point.

She may be in the future with a hell of a lot of work and if you choose to continue some kind of relationship with her.

Your marriage as you know it is dead and she is holding the murder weapon.

Hopefully @driftingon can give you some helpful advice about keeping yourself healthy during this stress.

I don't really give a **** about what miss margarine thighs thinks or feels right now. I care about your health and wellness as well as your kids.

You are all victims of her slimy crotch monster.

This bull **** really pisses me off if you can't tell.

I lost a good friend years ago to a situation like this.

Make certain you are going to be ok. You are a good man and your children and others need you.


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## idkaname

The details make it worse. I can't see how I could ever forgive her for what she did. It was also 9 years ago and we had many happy years prior and after. We are closer and stronger in recent years than we ever have been. I don't know what to do. All the work we put into our marriage feels like a lie. We spent years in therapy to stay together but she didn't have any intention of saying she had an affair. Everything we overcame feels like a lie. 

In 2010 we lost two children. They were the only kids we had at the time. We buried our children and my wife was having sex with another man while we were supposed to be mourning. Our daughter's passed away in February and March 2010. My wife started an affair in May 2010. She thinks it lasted 6-7 months. That was the worst time in our lives. I dont understand how she could betray me like that. I don't understand how sex was even on her mind. Let alone sex with another man. I don't understand how she could damage our lives more. I don't understand how she could add to the hurt. I didn't think life could ever get worse. I didn't see a point in living any longer and she was having the time of her life having sex with another guy. I don't get it. 

The affair was with a guy she works with. They still work together and because of that I'm struggling to trust her story. They work directly together on a team of 4 people. She spends 8 hours a day with him. She is on mat leave now and will be taking 18 months off topped up to full pay (Canada). She's on contract and will have to go back. I don't know if that can be changed at this point as her position has been filled temporarily and she signed a contract. 

I don't know if he's married or not. I don't want to have to talk to my wife to ask. She said the affair lasted 6 or 7 months and was only sex. She didn't love him or want a future with him. She ended it. She's carrying my child and I hate her right now. Now I'm always going to wonder if our first and second born are my kids and there is no way to know. I can DNA test my living kids. What am I going to do if they are not mine? I was there when they were born. I raised them. I'm on the birth certificates. I don't want to raise some other guys kids. I don't want to lose my kids either. Are DNA tests easy to do?

All my wife does is cry and say she will do anything. What can she possibly do to fix this? She betrayed me in the worst possible way AND in the worst possible time. She claims she has felt guilty ever since doing it and was afraid I would find out one day. She claims her therapist told her not to tell me because it would put her pain onto me to alleviate her guilt. What therapist would say that? 

She could go into labour any day. I don't want to even be there but at the same time I do. I want to be there for my child but not for my wife.

How would I ever forgive her? She destroyed our marriage and all of the work we put into it. What kind of person cheats in the midst of tragedy?

Her parents live 10 minutes away. I want to ask her to go there for a while. I don't want to look at her or hear her voice.


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## ConanHub

****ing bull ****!!!!!

Fing Bull ****!!!!!!!

Your wife is Goddamned toxic!!!!

She has been a coworker to this ass hat the whole time?!?!?!!!!

Get out brother!

Burn the ass hole if you can.

What a Titanic biatch!!!!!


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## Marc878

Bud if they work together the affair may have been ongoing. Affairs are addictive and you get the addict around the source you often get relapse. Affairs can last years. If it were me I'd be checking the phone bills, credit cards, etc.

Plus cheaters lie, hide and deny a lot. Sorry but at this time you just don't know except what she's told you.

Do not offer or promise her anything upfront until you have time to think. Do not jump int marriage counciling

Find out if he's married and if so inform his wife. Without warning!!!!!

What was the picture of? How did it get on Amazon without you seeing it before? Maybe check f there's more?


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## Marc878

idkaname said:


> I don't know if he's married or not. I don't want to have to talk to my wife to ask. She said the affair lasted 6 or 7 months and was only sex. She didn't love him or want a future with him. She ended it.
> 
> You only have her word which isn't worth much
> 
> She's carrying my child and I hate her right now. Now I'm always going to wonder if our first and second born are my kids and there is no way to know. I can DNA test my living kids. What am I going to do if they are not mine? I was there when they were born. I raised them. I'm on the birth certificates. I don't want to raise some other guys kids. I don't want to lose my kids either. Are DNA tests easy to do?
> 
> DNA testing is relatively easy and not that expensive. Google it
> 
> All my wife does is cry and say she will do anything. What can she possibly do to fix this? She betrayed me in the worst possible way AND in the worst possible time. She claims she has felt guilty ever since doing it and was afraid I would find out one day. She claims her therapist told her not to tell me because it would put her pain onto me to alleviate her guilt. What therapist would say that?
> 
> It's Common from bad therapists to promote lying. It's best to get the truth out
> 
> How would I ever forgive her? She destroyed our marriage and all of the work we put into it. What kind of person cheats in the midst of tragedy?
> 
> Sorry man but who you thought she was and who she really is are two different people. Unfortunately this happens a lot
> 
> Her parents live 10 minutes away. I want to ask her to go there for a while.


Right now she is in self preservation mode and will promise the moon. It would be best if you could get away from her awhile until you figure out the whole truth and let your mind clear


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## Marc878

idkaname said:


> She didn't confess. A picture came up on amazon photo memories. She confessed after I saw it.


What was the photo of? Are there more?


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## LimaTango

OMG. 

I am hurting for you just reading this. Just awful. I am so sorry you're going through this.

Look... your brain has to be spinning right now. This issue is way above my paygrade. But I can tell you that you need to talk with a professional therapist. It's just not reasonable to expect you to figure this out on your own (even if you have found this great website).

Take deep breaths. Be nice to yourself.


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## idkaname

The picture was of her having sex and I wasn't the male in it. I don't want to be overly graphic. There is no way she took the picture based on the angle. Her tattoo was visible so there is no denying it's her in the picture. I searched through them all and couldn't find anymore. She said she thought she deleted them all after he took them. She uploaded all of our old pictures to the drive a few months ago and that one must have been in the mix.


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## sokillme

Is he married? If so get his wife's number and call his wife while your wife is there. Make your wife do it. Let the wife know your wife is there. Make your wife apologize. Let this women take out all her wrath at her. She needs to quit her job no more seeing him. Just pretend like you have her number and are going to call and see how your wife reacts that will show a lot where their affair is. 

To work with him for years after while still lying to you is monstrous. After taking pictures of them having sex. Her story doesn't hold water because thing about it if she was ashamed do you think she would want to see this dude every day? Work with him every single day him knowing he had her and took pictures of it. There is a very good bet your wife is a con-artist. 

I say just leave the house so she can get the idea of what life is going to be like when she is alone taking care of 2 kids. 

Seriously dude this is a total **** sandwich. You really have no idea. The fact that she kept the photo of them says a lot. Tell her family as well so you don't look like the *******. Call her parents and tell them they need to come get her because of her affair and you need time. Tell them there is a very good chance your marriage is over. 

Your wife needs consequences. 

And by all means DNA test your kids. Sounds like a long term affair and there is a good chance this is still going on. Not a very good sign. Probably not her first affair either. You might want to consider a Polygraph. 

And yes your are not wrong about your wife, she is a awful she abandoned you when you were both at your lowest. If you didn't have kids I would say run for the hills. Still maybe you should still do so. Life with someone like that would be very hard. You are not even 40 yet. Seriously dude I can't think of a more awful spouse. You can still be a good father to them and not be married to her. Better for them go grow up in a home were there is the potential for love then one where there is abuse and make no mistake what your wife did to you was straight up abuse. 

Sometimes in life you give your best shot and still lose. Actually that is OK if you gave it your best shot. Sometimes we just pick the wrong people to be with. 

Finally if it was me I would make it a point to also contact this counselor of hers. I would let her know in no certain terms that she helped contribute to your wife stealing your agency away from you. Just like rape, you were not allowed to make an informed choice about your life and yes SHE contributed to that by telling your wife to hide it. I would also let her know that now you kids will also have to suffer and that there were no kids at the point when you could have decided to leave. Tell her that the next time she gives the same advice to remember you and your kids what a ****ed up thing she recommend and what that did to you and them. 

Does your wife even get the magnitude of how ****ed up what she did is?


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## Casual Observer

What a mess. No matter what, there's still a responsibility both to the present two kids and the one coming. Making assumptions that they are biologically his. At this point I don't know what's preferable to hope for. 

Think it makes sense to involve the wife's parents as quickly as possible because no matter what she did, she needs support with the pregnancy and birth.

It would be so much cleaner and easier to believe if she still wasn't working with the guy in question. Might be relevant how long she's been on leave at this point; if anything was continuing, there'd likely be evidence of contact on her phone or in the computer she uses at home. While actually working together, it would probably be easier than for most to keep things "clean" because contact could be in-person or strictly on computers on the work premises.

If the affair actually did last just 6 or 7 months, if you could definitely know that for sure (but how???!!!), there'd be a lot more sympathy for her position. And we cannot absolutely rule out that she's telling the truth today.

This is one of the saddest stories I've seen on TAM.


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## idkaname

I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.

I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work. I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.

Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook. 

What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


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## Marc878

idkaname said:


> The picture was of her having sex and I wasn't the male in it. I don't want to be overly graphic. There is no way she took the picture based on the angle. Her tattoo was visible so there is no denying it's her in the picture. I searched through them all and couldn't find anymore. She said she thought she deleted them all after he took them. She uploaded all of our old pictures to the drive a few months ago and that one must have been in the mix.


I hope you kept it you may need it later. Plus sad to say there could be and probably are more out there. Even videos. Happens all the time.

You'll be on a rollercoaster ride for quite some time


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## Marc878

Was his face in the photo too?


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## idkaname

His face wasn't in the picture. It was taken looking down at my wife. I just realized that it could be any white guy and not necessarily who she says it was. The guys arm was visible and he had a sleeve. That would identify him to his wife if he has one.


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## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> His face wasn't in the picture. It was taken looking down at my wife. I just realized that it could be any white guy and not necessarily who she says it was. The guys arm was visible and he had a sleeve. That would identify him to his wife if he has one.


How do you know it is even him?


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## idkaname

ConanHub said:


> How do you know it is even him?


My wife said who it was. She could have lied about who it was. I don't know why she would have.


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## notmyjamie

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment. You say the affair started right after you lost 2 of your children. I can't even imagine what that grief was like and people do amazingly stupid things with their grief. I'm going to guess that this affair was her way of escaping the pain of her real life. She wasn't just a bored housewife looking for a cheap thrill like so many of the WW we hear about on this board. The fact that she came to her senses and ended it means it may have been a temporary way of dealing with her grief. When her head cleared enough from the grief she realized it was wrong. It's unfortunate that her therapist recommended keeping the truth from you but many of them do. The rationale being that she would be hurting you just to save herself the guilt and that wasn't fair to you. Again, in such a difficult time in your lives, I can see why she'd think this advice was sound. As for continuing to work with him, if it really was just sex to her and there were no feelings involved she probably doesn't even think of that time with him anymore and so working with him is not a constant reminder to her so no reason to get a new job.

That's not to say that the pain you feel is unwarranted. You have every right to feel everything that you're feeling right now. I'm just pointing these things out so that if you think you might want to reconcile you can see the events for what they really were and not as a typical cheating situation. I could be wrong about all of this, but it's worth thinking about. If you are going to try to reconcile, you will need marriage therapy to make it through.

I do think that if you skip the birth of your child you will always regret it. As for custody and a breastfeeding child, I have not experienced it but I've heard that the Dad gets shorter visits and no overnights until the child it weaned at a reasonable age. So, Mom can't breastfeed until age 10 just to keep Dad from getting the child for overnights.

Please accept my deepest condolences on the loss of your children. No parent should have to go through that. And I'm very sorry for what you're going through now. *hugs*


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## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.
> 
> I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work.
> 
> Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook.
> 
> What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


You shouldn't trust her because she is a liar. People who have affairs are lairs and damn good at it. People who have affairs and cover them for years are like rapist. They steal people agency and choice, just like a rapist does. 

Why does she need to talk to him on the phone she is with him all day 5 days a week?

Hire a PI if you need to if it comes to that, hell google can usually find people or public records can. There are services where you can pay like 20 bucks to find this stuff. 

You tell her family so people can know what a POS she is. Again consequences. You should NOT be embarrassed. My take would be, look I think we are going to get divorced. I did the best I could always was faithful. I deserve better. They may not say it be even her family will admire you for that. Now if you are thinking of staying then maybe you don't tell.

How do people know did she tell people but not you? Did her friends know and cover for her?

Frankly if it were me kids or not I would be done. I don't believe in keeping a marriage just for the kids sake kid can be from a broken home just as easily with two people still married in it. My parents were divorced (my Dad cheated) and I still had a good childhood probably was closer to both of them. I admire my Mom for kicking his ass to the curb. He didn't deserve her and it taught me to stand up for myself so when I was cheated on all I had to do was look to my Mothers example and ghost my cheater. 

At least go talk to a lawyer. Your wife is a giant phony and I think you know that. Let the other guy have her. You can do better.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.
> 
> I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work. I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.
> 
> Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook.
> 
> What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


I'm not fan of full exposure. That's used mainly to stop an affair. You don't know enough yet.

I would only tell my family and friends if I needed their support. Her parents so they can support her. (They will side with her so expect it). His wife should know as well. Wouldn't you? Plus if anything else (pics, videos) should pop up unexpectedly she deserves to know.

Men never delete their stash of homemade porn


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> My wife said who it was. She could have lied about who it was. I don't know why she would have.


Again you should NOT trust a word out of her mouth she has lied to you for years. She didn't feel guilty enough to tell you the truth. 

You should go from the premise that you have no idea who this person you are with is but it's not what you thought.

Oh and OP you lost 2 kids right? Did you **** someone and take pictures of it and save them so you could look at them later, not tell your wife, and work with the women you ****ed for years later? 

NO? 

Grief like any other reason is a bull**** reason for having an affair. 

And if its not you should go to Vegas now and **** a whole bunch of prostitutes right? Because after all it's a hard deal you just got handed to you right? I'm sure you will get the same grace that your wife is getting right?

Don't make me laugh. 

People show you who they are in a crisis, your wife is awful.


----------



## Marc878

You could probably get his home address for a nominal fee from a PI


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> My wife said who it was. She could have lied about who it was. I don't know why she would have.


I was just thinking admissable evidence.

I don't think your ww probably lied because it doesn't paint her good at all to have been working with her lover all these years but how can you believe anything from her???

You can't believe anything that isn't backed up with proof unfortunately.

She has very effectively destroyed any reason to trust her as she has proven to be absolutely self serving and very easily someone who will harm you and deceive and manipulate you if it serves her purposes.


----------



## ConanHub

If we lost children and my wife ****ed a coworker for half a year while I suffered and then kept working with him all these years.....?

I would go find a nice human woman to mate with once I discovered I had accidentally married a lizard.


----------



## Marc878

Id put that photo in a safe place. Your wife will delete it if she gets a chance.

Do not tell her you're going to inform his wife. They tend to conspire together for alibis but unlike a lot you have proof.

This is the thing. Under the circumstances of the deaths of your children it's going to be even worse memories. Infidelty is the gift that will never fully go away. EBen worse under your circumstances unless you are a very forgiving person.

I'm sorry you're in this crap


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> I'm not fan of full exposure. That's used mainly to stop an affair. You don't know enough yet.
> 
> I would only tell my family and friends if I needed their support. Her parents so they can support her. (They will side with her so expect it). His wife should know as well. Wouldn't you? Plus if anything else (pics, videos) should pop up unexpectedly she deserves to know.
> 
> Men never delete their stash of homemade porn


I agree I am not advocating posting it on Facebook. I think telling her family makes sense because if the pregnancy and because it puts a spotlight on her actions. You don't and shouldn't be vindictive about it, nor should you be ashamed. Like I said let them know this happened and you need space as there is a very good chance your marriage is over. Also let them know you are not even sure the affair is over. They will want to protect her which makes sense but they also may talk some sense into her and at the very least it will embarrass her if she is not a sociopath and she needs to be embarrassed. 

I wouldn't tell my family until I know I am divorcing. But then, if I did, I would not hold back from anyone again if you tried your best you have nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes we just pick bad people to marry. My take would be we went through the worst possible thing anyone can go through and my wife used that to stab me in the back, that is too much for me or anyone to put up with.


----------



## BruceBanner

Ignore this post.


----------



## idkaname

She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.

She deleted the picture after I saw it but didn't clear it from the trash folder. I have it saved. 

I can text or call her mom or dad tomorrow and tell them to come get her. I could tonight but it's late now. It might give me two weeks of peace before she goes into labour. 

Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.
> 
> She deleted the picture after I saw it but didn't clear it from the trash folder. I have it saved.
> 
> I can text or call her mom or dad tomorrow and tell them to come get her. I could tonight but it's late now. It might give me two weeks of peace before she goes into labour.
> 
> Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.


If you can afford one, get a PI.


----------



## idkaname

Private investigator? A buddy of mine is a PI.


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> Private investigator? A buddy of mine is a PI.


Ask if he could help, maybe cut you a break on the cost and give you some advice.


----------



## Marc878

This is why you need to take the time and think this through. You're gonna go through mood swings. Divorce to Reconcile back and forth for awhile but you will get dome clarity later on.

Make sure if you choose to R that you can handle it. That process takes 2-5 years. If it's not a dealbreaker. You don't want to end up wasting 5-10 years or more and find out you have buyers remourse and become miserable. 

The one thing you can never get back is time.


----------



## notmyjamie

idkaname said:


> She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.
> 
> Sex is absolutely an escape for many, many people. Again, doesn't justify it at all. But I believe she was trying to escape the pain of her loss. Many WS's use an affair to escape their hum drum life, so it's completely believable that someone would use it to escape their horror they were living at that moment. That doesn't make it right but I can certainly understand her need for the escape. She chose the worst possible way to do it though.
> 
> 
> Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.
> 
> Yes, too much. You don't know how he'd react to being followed. If you really need to know, hire a PI.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.
> 
> She deleted the picture after I saw it but didn't clear it from the trash folder. I have it saved.
> 
> I can text or call her mom or dad tomorrow and tell them to come get her. I could tonight but it's late now. It might give me two weeks of peace before she goes into labour.
> 
> Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.


You should do it now BECAUSE IT'S LATE. You need to change your mindset, no matter what you don't want this to be easy. Your wife needs to feel pain like you do. Tell her you need time alone and you NEED her to go to her parents house. NOW. I wouldn't be mean about it but tell her to pack her **** and leave. 

Unless you think that is a danger to the pregnancy. 

You are not wrong in your first sentence. At the lowest point in both your lives you wife decided to use that to **** another man. I mean does she think it's OK for you now to ESCAPE with sex. 

Besides that you probably have like 10% of the story at this point. It's just as possible the affair was going on before that. Lots of times wives like yours had have lots of affairs and often more then one going on at a time. It's their M.O. I mean this doesn't sound like an impulsive mistake, your wife was letting him take pictures and is still working with him after she was so guilty. Showing no shame at all. Her story doesn't make sense. I think your wife is full of **** unfortunately. 

I really think you need to DNA test your kids too. Let your wife know you are doing it. Her reaction will show a lot.

People don't have affairs to escape they have affairs because they have poor coping skills and bad character. Make up excuses for her to your own detriment. You would be wise not to make up excuses for her, you will only end up hurting yourself.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> Sex is absolutely an escape for many, many people. Again, doesn't justify it at all. But I believe she was trying to escape the pain of her loss. Many WS's use an affair to escape their hum drum life, so it's completely believable that someone would use it to escape their horror they were living at that moment. That doesn't make it right but I can certainly understand her need for the escape. She chose the worst possible way to do it though.


Who cares. Like that means anything at all when it comes to this situation.

People shoot people for money too.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> Private investigator? A buddy of mine is a PI.


Well that is convenient. You may not even need him just ask him how to do it. There are probably services that you can join that will tell you because it's probably public record.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

You've got a husband if you need a sexual escape.


----------



## notmyjamie

To be very clear, I'm not at all saying I condone her behavior. I'm just trying to see it a little differently. She was likely not in her right mind due to the grief. That's all I mean.


----------



## idkaname

It is a little early but if she goes into labour soon I don't know how I'm going to be supportive. Our babies all came at 37 and 38 weeks so it will be soon. All of her labours have been 5 days. They are bad at the best of times. That is a long time to pretend nothing is wrong. I don't want to talk to her or touch her. For a baby that may not be mine. 

I'm going to have my friend look into the guy for me. I doubt it'd take long to get basic info. 

I hesitate to call her parents right now because I don't want to embarass her or make a small scene. That's the point though isn't it?


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> To be very clear, I'm not at all saying I condone her behavior. I'm just trying to see it a little differently. She was likely not in her right mind due to the grief. That's all I mean.


And then working with this guy for years after? Let me ask you if you lost your mind and had sex with someone (for 6 months - just that shows it's bull****) on your job betrayed your spouse at the worst possible moment in your lives would you be able to see that person over and over for years? Knowing that they had naked pictures of you? When you lost your mind and did the worst possible thing you have ever done in your life? When you were just wracked with guilt!! Yet you still had pictures of that on your computer? 

Does that make sense to you? 

Nah this is going to be one of those cases were this is just the tip of the iceberg. We have seen it here before. 

I predict some sort of childhood sexual trauma and that she is a life long cheater. This is probably a LTA that may have fizzled out but not in 6 months. 

It doesn't follow the typical pattern of someone who loses their mind for 6 months. In those cases the person IS wracked with guilt and does everything they can to get away from the thing that causes that guilt. This follows the pattern of someone who is very comfortable with acting out on their marriage. 

I hate to say this but I have just read this story too many times.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> Private investigator? A buddy of mine is a PI.


Perfect you're golden. This won't take long. He can probably get you his wife's cell number.

If it were me id go online and download the phone bills for the last 6 months and see how much contact they have. She's not stupid enough to leave innapropriate texts on her phone so you probably won't find anything there. 

Do they have work phones or private phones where you can access the data usage?


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> It is a little early but if she goes into labour soon I don't know how I'm going to be supportive. Our babies all came at 37 and 38 weeks so it will be soon. All of her labours have been 5 days. They are bad at the best of times. That is a long time to pretend nothing is wrong. I don't want to talk to her or touch her. For a baby that may not be mine.
> 
> I'm going to have my friend look into the guy for me. I doubt it'd take long to get basic info.
> 
> I hesitate to call her parents right now because I don't want to embarass her or make a small scene. That's the point though isn't it?


That is the point. Look it's your life but she needs consequences. If you don't want to tell them make her tell them. She should be embarrassed besides that you are going to need support and so is she. YOU didn't cause this SHE did.

Your instinct is to protect her as her husband, but dude she fired you. She didn't want you as a husband when she was with this guy. At the very least she needs to earn you back.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> It is a little early but if she goes into labour soon I don't know how I'm going to be supportive. Our babies all came at 37 and 38 weeks so it will be soon. All of her labours have been 5 days. They are bad at the best of times. That is a long time to pretend nothing is wrong. I don't want to talk to her or touch her. For a baby that may not be mine.
> 
> I'm going to have my friend look into the guy for me. I doubt it'd take long to get basic info.
> 
> I hesitate to call her parents right now because I don't want to embarass her or make a small scene. That's the point though isn't it?


Good thing you saved the pic. I knew she'd try and destroy the evidence. Not a good sign. Better make sure it's safe in 2 or 3 places.

Her parents normally will side with her and make you out the bad guy. That's very common do expect it but never accept it.


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> Perfect you're golden. This won't take long. He can probably get you his wife's cell number.
> 
> If it were me id go online and download the phone bills for the last 6 months and see how much contact they have. She's not stupid enough to leave innapropriate texts on her phone so you probably won't find anything there.
> 
> Do they have work phones or private phones where you can access the data usage?


Take her phone and look up every single app on the phone. OPEN each app. Make a back up of the phone because you can use that to spend more time looking at it. Some apps are used specifically for hiding affairs. 

Also don't let her know you are posting here. Password protect all your stuff now.

Go talk to a lawyer just to know what you are up against. 

Next time she tells you she will do anything tell her she better figure it out and spend as much effort trying to fix it that she did hiding it from you all those years. 

I mean why are you the one online dealing with this trying to fix it and not her. She broke it.

You need to separate the child from your wife. Right now your wife is just a delivery device but you can still support and love the child. You can still enjoy the child. Presumably he is yours and you will have a life long relationship with him/her. This is not their fault. 

However you DO need to DNA test all your kids. You should also talk to the lawyer about all this, it may be wise not to sign the birth certificate until after a test is run.


----------



## Marc878

The other thing you're likely to find is who else knew????

Coworkers, friends, family. Id suspect some did. They always do. These people are enemies of you and your marriage.


----------



## Marc878

When confronting or exposing stick to the facts. You have proof. No need to talk about it.

You need space so this is all on your time. No one else gets a say in it.

Right now you just don't know how deep this is. You probably only know the "tip of the iceberg".

She is capable of lying and cheating but that's all you know except you can't trust tight now.

Start digging it'll become clearer later.

I wish you well. You're going to need it.


----------



## idkaname

If she has cheated her whole adult life would that not have come out by now? We have never kept devices private from each other. I'm her only relationship. She hasn't been raped or abused. 

Her parents are hyper religious. They wouldn't condone her cheating. She is close with them and they will support her but she'd be in for a lot of lectures and disappointment. 

My wife said no one knows aside from the therapist she told and a doctor when she had an STD test. Which was negative. 

Am I looking for specific apps? Her phone is near me right now. She leaves it laying around.


----------



## Marc878

Who all knows at this time?


----------



## SunCMars

idkaname said:


> It is a little early but if she goes into labour soon I don't know how I'm going to be supportive. Our babies all came at 37 and 38 weeks so it will be soon. All of her labours have been 5 days. They are bad at the best of times. That is a long time to pretend nothing is wrong. I don't want to talk to her or touch her. For a baby that may not be mine.
> 
> I'm going to have my friend look into the guy for me. I doubt it'd take long to get basic info.
> 
> I hesitate to call her parents right now because I don't want to embarass her or make a small scene. That's the point though isn't it?


The health of the new born, this innocent baby...yours or not, should comes first.

You don't want to take a chance of her committing suicide while pregnant, do you?

Use the extra time to snoop, to see a lawyer, to get your affairs in order.

Let lightning strike in a few more weeks.





[THM]- Nemesis


----------



## BruceBanner

Marc878 said:


> Good thing yard the pic. I knew she'd try and destroy the evidence. Not a good sign. Better make sure it's safe in 2 or 3 places.
> 
> Hefeelings parents normally will side with her and make you out the bad guy. That's very common do expect it but never accept it.


It's possible that her parents might have even known about this whole debacle.



SunCMars said:


> The health of the new born, this innocent baby...yours or not, should comes first.
> 
> You don't want to take a chance of her committing suicide while pregnant, do you?
> 
> Use the extra time to snoop, to see a lawyer, to get your affairs in order.
> 
> Let lightning strike in a few more weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> [THM]- Nemesis


If the newborn isn't his, along with the other two children, then he has no responsibility towards them whatsoever.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> If she has cheated her whole adult life would that not have come out by now? We have never kept devices private from each other. I'm her only relationship. She hasn't been raped or abused.
> 
> Her parents are hyper religious. They wouldn't condone her cheating. She is close with them and they will support her but she'd be in for a lot of lectures and disappointment.
> 
> My wife said no one knows aside from the therapist she told and a doctor when she had an STD test. Which was negative.
> 
> Am I looking for specific apps? Her phone is near me right now. She leaves it laying around.


Nope look up the name of every app, if it is a cheating app google will tell you.

Sorry her story doesn't seem plausible to me. Either this was a long term affair which then the pictures make sense, or this not her first one. You don't just have and affair and jump to saving pictures if you are not typically one to have an affair. It escalates. 

Ask her why she was not humiliated to see him every day? How come if she was so guilty was she able to work with him knowing that he got to have sex with her and what that meant to your marriage? Does she think he has pictures of her? Does she think it's on the internet? Which it probably is. Again someone who feels deep shame about having an affair is not going to work day to day with someone who have pictures of the whole thing. 

Sorry I don't believe you wife. I think she is a liar and you should think that too. All I know is I am usually right about these things, I have called at least 3 of them on here. 

If her parents are religious all the more reason to tell them. They will hold her accountable. 

I don't mean tell them like - YOUR DAUGHTER IS A *****! I mean, "I am sorry to have to tell you this but I just found out your daughter had an affair. Unfortunately it was at the time when we had lost the child which make it doubly painful for me as I feel like when I needed her most she stabbed me in the back. I also saw pictures. I don't know if I can get over this but at least for now I know I need time alone to think. Because of our history together and because I am for the moment going to assume the child she is carrying is still mine I have had to make the difficult choice to tell you this so she is not alone. Please take care of her for me, and pray for all of us. I will never understand how she could do this to me." 

Then you can take the high road and let them pound her which is what she needs. What are they going to say. If you divorce her they probably won't like you but then again they raised her. 

Do you always prevent her from facing consequences?


----------



## idkaname

I'm not sure how it works in the US but here birth certificates are not filled out at the hospital. It's done online at home whenever the parents get around to it. I could do a DNA test before filling it out. I googled it and unless I want court admissible they are easy and fast.

My parents and two of my closest friends know. I told them. She said she didn't tell any friends or family.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> If she has cheated her whole adult life would that not have come out by now? We have never kept devices private from each other. I'm her only relationship. She hasn't been raped or abused.
> 
> Her parents are hyper religious. They wouldn't condone her cheating. She is close with them and they will support her but she'd be in for a lot of lectures and disappointment.
> 
> My wife said no one knows aside from the therapist she told and a doctor when she had an STD test. Which was negative.
> 
> Am I looking for specific apps? Her phone is near me right now. She leaves it laying around.



She had a 1/2 year affair and you didn't know, right? They could only be communicating at work. She's not dumb.

Does she do girls nights out, after work functions, etc some carry on affairs during lunch breaks.

Your problem is right now you just don't know. Only her word which you can't trust at this time. You'll need to dig and verify.


----------



## Marc878

Go online and download the data usage for 6 months and see how much they are communicating.

Texts can be deleted.

I'll bet she's already warned him you know.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> If she has cheated her whole adult life would that not have come out by now? We have never kept devices private from each other. I'm her only relationship. She hasn't been raped or abused.
> 
> Her parents are hyper religious. They wouldn't condone her cheating. She is close with them and they will support her but she'd be in for a lot of lectures and disappointment.
> 
> *My wife said no one knows aside from the therapist she told and a doctor when she had an STD test. Which was negative. *
> 
> Am I looking for specific apps? Her phone is near me right now. She leaves it laying around.


Which means you really don't know yet.


----------



## sokillme

Please stop believing a word your wife says. That should be rule number one.


----------



## idkaname

I can't think of a time I'd ever prevent consequences. I don't want to make a rash decision. I'll call her dad in the morning. 

She doesn't have a work phone. All of her communications are done on her personal cell. She rarely goes out. She's a homebody. The only work events off hours are big parties which I attend with her. They would have lunch breaks together. It's a hospital though so it's not private. 

Her everyday actions and her cheating don't match. It's confusing me.

I can check the phone bills.


----------



## Marc878

BruceBanner said:


> It's possible that her parents might have even known about this whole debacle.
> 
> 
> 
> If the newborn isn't his, along with the other two children, then he has no responsibility towards them whatsoever.


Most of the time the laws will state he is the father unless proven otherwise.


----------



## BigToe

Calm down. Don't make any rash decisions, you don't need to. The ball is in your court so take advantage of having the advantage and slow down. You've got a child weeks away, in all likelihood YOUR child. Don't do something stupid that puts pressure on your wife right now that might in someway endanger the birth. THAT you will regret for the rest of your life. Forget about asking her to leave. I have sympathy for you but this isn't about JUST you, you've got kids to think about. More than likely YOUR kids. Yes the whole situation sucks right now but this is NOT the time to be kicking her out of the house or you taking off and abandoning everyone. Your wife might deserve that but your kids don't, and your new baby certainly doesn't!

You said she's willing to do anything, why haven't you told her to leave her job. Don't give me contract BS, if she explains the situation to her superiors nobody is going to hold her to a contract under these circumstances. I'm with NOTMYJAMIE on the timing and mitigation due to the loss of your children. It's not an excuse, it's not justifiable, but it IS mitigating. Especially since she has remained with you and chosen to have more children with you. You need to hear a dose of truth and reality about your own issues regarding the past Mister, but I haven't the heart to give it to you since you definitely have a lot on your plate right now. So...calm down. You've got all the time in the world to f*ck up her life, the other man's life, and anyone else you want to target. Right now is NOT the time to do it.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> I can't think of a time I'd ever prevent consequences. I don't want to make a rash decision. I'll call her dad in the morning.
> 
> She doesn't have a work phone. All of her communications are done on her personal cell. She rarely goes out. She's a homebody. The only work events off hours are big parties which I attend with her. They would have lunch breaks together. It's a hospital though so it's not private.
> 
> Her everyday actions and her cheating don't match. It's confusing me.
> 
> I can check the phone bills.


Was anything different when the affair was going on before that you can remember. You didn't notice then either.

Again, at this time you just don't know.


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> And then working with this guy for years after? Let me ask you if you lost your mind and had sex with someone (for 6 months - just that shows it's bull****) on your job betrayed your spouse at the worst possible moment in your lives would you be able to see that person over and over for years? Knowing that they had naked pictures of you? When you lost your mind and did the worst possible thing you have ever done in your life? When you were just wracked with guilt!! Yet you still had pictures of that on your computer?
> 
> 
> Does that make sense to you?
> 
> 
> No, but I am not one to ever cheat. But I do know that grief can make people do very horrible, self destructive things. And that an affair is often about escaping. And I would want to escape my life if I lost two children at the same time, most people would. They just wouldn't all choose the same method to escape. I'm looking at this through the eyes of a healthcare professional. You think it's bull**** for it to continue for 6 months, but that is just the beginning of grief. It can last so much longer than that. Also, she said she got rid of the pictures, she just missed that one. I do not understand how she could work with him for years afterwards unless she truly thought of it as just sex and compartmentalized her life severely, which many people do every day.
> 
> 
> Nah this is going to be one of those cases were this is just the tip of the iceberg. We have seen it here before.
> 
> I predict some sort of childhood sexual trauma and that she is a life long cheater. This is probably a LTA that may have fizzled out but not in 6 months.
> 
> It doesn't follow the typical pattern of someone who loses their mind for 6 months. In those cases the person IS wracked with guilt and does everything they can to get away from the thing that causes that guilt. This follows the pattern of someone who is very comfortable with acting out on their marriage.
> 
> I hate to say this but I have just read this story too many times.
> 
> 
> I have not been here as long nor read as many stories, that's for certain. I've been cheated on but I've never been the cheater so I really don't know a cheater's mindset. I just know grief so that's the part of it I'm focusing on. As I said in my original post on this thread, I could be way off base. I feel immensely for OP. I can't even imagine the betrayal he feels. I thought it might be easier on him to know that she was not in her right mind when she cheated. As for the following years, her therapist led her wrong, very wrong, which I have seen before, sadly. It's possible she has endured the guilt based on that poor advice feeling like she deserves it for what she's done.
> 
> Or, I could be totally naive and you are totally right. Without reading OP's wife's mind, we just don't know until/unless we get more information. Again, I was trying to make OP feel a little better about his circumstances, that's all. I was not defending her behavior. My STBX is gay and I still never cheated, so I obviously don't believe it's okay at all.


----------



## Marc878

BigToe said:


> Calm down. Don't make any rash decisions, you don't need to. The ball is in your court so take advantage of having the advantage and slow down. You've got a child weeks away, in all likelihood YOUR child. Don't do something stupid that puts pressure on your wife right now that might in someway endanger the birth. THAT you will regret for the rest of your life. Forget about asking her to leave. I have sympathy for you but this isn't about JUST you, you've got kids to think about. More than likely YOUR kids. Yes the whole situation sucks right now but this is NOT the time to be kicking her out of the house or you taking off and abandoning everyone. Your wife might deserve that but your kids don't, and your new baby certainly doesn't!
> 
> You said she's willing to do anything, why haven't you told her to leave her job. Don't give me contract BS, if she explains the situation to her superiors nobody is going to hold her to a contract under these circumstances. I'm with NOTMYJAMIE on the timing and mitigation due to the loss of your children. It's not an excuse, it's not justifiable, but it IS mitigating. Especially since she has remained with you and chosen to have more children with you. You need to hear a dose of truth and reality about your own issues regarding the past Mister, but I haven't the heart to give it to you since you definitely have a lot on your plate right now. So...calm down. You've got all the time in the world to f*ck up her life, the other man's life, and anyone else you want to target. Right now is NOT the time to do it.


Excellent advice. Try and take a deep breath.


----------



## idkaname

I lost my kids our entire world was different. She could have died and I wouldn't have noticed until a weird smell was in the house. I recall very little of that time. 

I don't want to make rash decisions. 

Her contract is financial. She can go on leave for 18 months and they will top up EI to 100% of her salary on the condition that she returns or pays back the top up. She could break contract now and pay back what has been topped up so far. At that point she's out of a job and if we divorce alimony is through the roof.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> No, but I am not one to ever cheat. But I do know that grief can make people do very horrible, self destructive things. And that an affair is often about escaping. And I would want to escape my life if I lost two children at the same time, most people would. They just wouldn't all choose the same method to escape. I'm looking at this through the eyes of a healthcare professional. You think it's bull**** for it to continue for 6 months, but that is just the beginning of grief. It can last so much longer than that. Also, she said she got rid of the pictures, she just missed that one. I do not understand how she could work with him for years afterwards unless she truly thought of it as just sex and compartmentalized her life severely, which many people do every day.


Compartmentalization is just another word for being an *******. 

As far as waiting.

I don't see what the harm is in making her go live with her parents for a few weeks. She is not going to lose the child because of that. It's not like he is putting her out in the street. It may be better for her to get away as well. It would be good for her to have to sit and deal with her consequences. Them being together can't be good right now.

Like I said in the other post. 



> I don't mean tell them like - YOUR DAUGHTER IS A *****! I mean, "I am sorry to have to tell you this but I just found out your daughter had an affair. Unfortunately it was at the time when we had lost the child which make it doubly painful for me as I feel like when I needed her most she stabbed me in the back. I also saw pictures. I don't know if I can get over this but at least for now I know I need time alone to think. Because of our history together and because I am for the moment going to assume the child she is carrying is still mine I have had to make the difficult choice to tell you this so she is not alone. Please take care of her for me, and pray for all of us. I will never understand how she could do this to me."


That seems reasonable and probably would be helpful for her as she is going to need support here. He can't be that for her and probably won't be for a long time. 

He can also start the DNA tests. If this is a LTA which considering they still work together is at least possible there is a reasonable possibility that the kid is not his, point is he won't know for sure until it is born. At this point he should err on the kid being his but still protect himself.

He can do the delivery room and make it about the kid. If her parents know they can support her as the truth is he is probably going to be in no place to be able to do that. She still needs advocates. The thing is this is not his fault. It's a ****ty situation to be sure but you got to work with what you have. 

Seeing an attorney is a must. If his wife is working alimony may not be necessary just child support. It is worth getting a sense of what he is look at. Also he doesn't want to be stuck paying for another man's child if this kid is not his. 

Besides moving her out for a few weeks none of these things have to be done while confronting her, he can completely ignore her and do all of this.

Getting info on the guy also makes sense as well, again she doesn't and should know about it yet anyway. He can then meet with the wife to compare notes (if there is a wife) before his wife can warn this guy. After that if it was me, after the kid is born, I would make his wife call this women and apologize. That is very effective in turning her from someone abstract to a living breathing person who she cause terrible pain to. 

Look I am not saying destroy her I am saying let her parents know for both of their benefit. What I am saying for sure is after the kid is born the best thing for him (and really her) in the long run is consequences for what she did. Nothing throws cold water on an affair faster then seeing all the **** it caused. 

Oh and the counselor would be getting some wrath too.

Most of all DON'T BELIEVE A WORD SHE SAYS.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I can't think of a time I'd ever prevent consequences. I don't want to make a rash decision. I'll call her dad in the morning.
> 
> She doesn't have a work phone. All of her communications are done on her personal cell. She rarely goes out. She's a homebody. The only work events off hours are big parties which I attend with her. They would have lunch breaks together. It's a hospital though so it's not private.
> 
> Her everyday actions and her cheating don't match. It's confusing me.
> 
> I can check the phone bills.


Is she a nurse?

That's because you don't know all of her actions. Her affair happened at work, you don't have any idea how she behaves at work. She works at a hospital where people sleep and there are access to beds and long hours. Not very hard to have an affair in that situation. Unfortunately healthcare is one of the careers with the highest amounts of affairs.

And maybe it is like she says, she still lied to you for 9 years. Could you do that? 

The point is you need to assume you don't know this person the way you thought you did and your instincts are not good when it comes to her. She was able to lie to you for 9 years. 

The most important thing you can do for yourself is to try to keep yourself safe.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> Is she a nurse?
> 
> That's because you don't know all of her actions. Her affair happened at work, you don't have any idea how she behaves at work. She works at a hospital where people sleep and their are access to beds. Unfortunately healthcare is one of the careers with the highest chance of affairs.


She is not a nurse. She is a speech-langauge pathologist. The man in question is an occupational therapist.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She is not a nurse. She is a speech-langauge pathologist. The man in question is an occupational therapist.


That's a little better I guess. 

Even still with any job we don't see our spouse at their work so we have no idea how they are. 

Besides that have you asked her how she can see this man every day knowing he has pictures of them having sex? If she was SO guilty how is it even possible? Do they ever talk about their affair? 

Dude come on. None of that makes sense. She obviously hasn't felt much guilt she sees this man every day and they have had this little secret for years. Have you meet him? Been in his presence?

See this is the thing, when you start to realize how they behave you start to see how broken their moral compass is. 

It just makes it very hard to be married to people who act this way. 

Look deciding to stay marred is for another day, but I know it's natural for you to believe what your wife tells you because that has been your pattern for many years but YOU MUST STOP. It makes you vulnerable. 9 years is enough. Really you should never completely believe her again. Do this at the very least. Take all she says and think about it logically. Pick the side of logic not what she says. 

Finally when she says she will do anything again, ask her to move in with her parents. Tell her you want her to take a polygraph (see how she reacts to that). Tell her you want the man's phone number (see if she goes for that). Tell her every decision she makes from now on is going to show you who she is is and what her polarities are. For 9 years as far as you can tell her priorities have been this man every decision from no on out will have a strong baring on if you stay married. Tell her that she better do more then just cry and beg. She is an adult he made this mess she now needs to at least try to fix it. And not to use the help of the snake of a counselor. 

Again why are you online trying to figure it out and she isn't. She did this!


----------



## Tobyboy

Are you sure the pic is from nine years ago? Was the pic downloaded from her phone? She’s had the same phone for nine years?


----------



## sokillme

Look dude I know this is probably the second hardest thing you have ever been through. I also know we are very blunt and that can come across as harsh but understand most of us have gone through it. 

I personally caught the girl I proposed to cheating about 2 weeks later, via email to the guy where she was laughing about it. So I know how painful it is. 

It's just most of us have read lots of these stories by now. We know how it works, we know what liars most of these people are. The truth is you don't lie to someone for 9 years and are able to suppress the normal guilt that you and I would have if you are not a very good liar. If it's not a part of who you are and how different they are. Lying is a way of life for them. 

Again it's like rape. Not everyone can do that ****. 

We truthfully are on here trying to help you, trying to help you protect yourself. 

I will tell you upfront. I don't care if your marriage survives or not, I don't want you to suffer any longer then is necessary to heal and get better. I think many of us would say the same. 



Here is some light reading for you. You may notice a pattern.


----------



## Red Sonja

idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.
> 
> I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work.* I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.*
> 
> Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook.
> 
> What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


The hutzpah required for her to ask you to do this (the bolded) shows an astounding lack of respect for you and the marriage. Working with him and seeing him every day ... also astounding.

Her behavior doesn't show much evidence of a well developed conscience or empathy does it?


----------



## stillthinking

So, she has acted in her own best interests for the last 9 years. Nuked the marriage and yet still wanted all the benefits.

She got her fun ride. Kept it secret as she knew you would most likely leave her. Kept working with her lover. Had kids with you under false pretenses. What a peach she is.

Now that you have some idea of who and what she really is. it’s your turn. You get to decide what is best for you.


----------



## MattMatt

idkaname said:


> The details make it worse. I can't see how I could ever forgive her for what she did. It was also 9 years ago and we had many happy years prior and after. We are closer and stronger in recent years than we ever have been. I don't know what to do. All the work we put into our marriage feels like a lie. We spent years in therapy to stay together but she didn't have any intention of saying she had an affair. Everything we overcame feels like a lie.
> 
> In 2010 we lost two children. They were the only kids we had at the time. We buried our children and my wife was having sex with another man while we were supposed to be mourning. Our daughter's passed away in February and March 2010. My wife started an affair in May 2010. She thinks it lasted 6-7 months. That was the worst time in our lives. I dont understand how she could betray me like that. I don't understand how sex was even on her mind. Let alone sex with another man. I don't understand how she could damage our lives more. I don't understand how she could add to the hurt. I didn't think life could ever get worse. I didn't see a point in living any longer and she was having the time of her life having sex with another guy. I don't get it.
> 
> The affair was with a guy she works with. They still work together and because of that I'm struggling to trust her story. They work directly together on a team of 4 people. She spends 8 hours a day with him. She is on mat leave now and will be taking 18 months off topped up to full pay (Canada). She's on contract and will have to go back. I don't know if that can be changed at this point as her position has been filled temporarily and she signed a contract.
> 
> I don't know if he's married or not. I don't want to have to talk to my wife to ask. She said the affair lasted 6 or 7 months and was only sex. She didn't love him or want a future with him. She ended it. She's carrying my child and I hate her right now. Now I'm always going to wonder if our first and second born are my kids and there is no way to know. I can DNA test my living kids. What am I going to do if they are not mine? I was there when they were born. I raised them. I'm on the birth certificates. I don't want to raise some other guys kids. I don't want to lose my kids either. Are DNA tests easy to do?
> 
> All my wife does is cry and say she will do anything. What can she possibly do to fix this? She betrayed me in the worst possible way AND in the worst possible time. She claims she has felt guilty ever since doing it and was afraid I would find out one day. She claims her therapist told her not to tell me because it would put her pain onto me to alleviate her guilt. What therapist would say that?
> 
> She could go into labour any day. I don't want to even be there but at the same time I do. I want to be there for my child but not for my wife.
> 
> How would I ever forgive her? She destroyed our marriage and all of the work we put into it. What kind of person cheats in the midst of tragedy?
> 
> Her parents live 10 minutes away. I want to ask her to go there for a while. I don't want to look at her or hear her voice.


Sadly that is EXACTLY what most therapists are trained to do under such circumstances.

I feel that you need therapy to help you get through this dreadful situation.


----------



## MattMatt

idkaname said:


> She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.
> 
> She deleted the picture after I saw it but didn't clear it from the trash folder. I have it saved.
> 
> I can text or call her mom or dad tomorrow and tell them to come get her. I could tonight but it's late now. It might give me two weeks of peace before she goes into labour.
> 
> Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.


It's too much of a temptation to do something to him, so please don't follow him.

He needs to be reported to HR. A man who has sex with a grieving married woman doesn't deserve a job.


----------



## MattMatt

Red Sonja said:


> The hutzpah required for her to ask you to do this (the bolded) shows an astounding lack of respect for you and the marriage. Working with him and seeing him every day ... also astounding.
> 
> Her behavior doesn't show much evidence of a well developed conscience or empathy does it?


Or that she was, for a time, mentally ill.

And her colleague who would have been able to identify that she was mentally ill decided to not refer her to HR but to **** her instead.

Professional misconduct. He does not deserve to work in his field.


----------



## MattMatt

@idkaname, I would suggest couple's counselling. As well as individual therapy for yourself. You have had a terrible, dreadful shock that has stripped you of your trust and faith in your wife. Perhaps for good, perhaps not. 

After all, you were thinking of suicide but didn't, perhaps to spare your wife the pain of you dying, but your wife chose a different route, which is now causing you more pain as well as bringing those dark, negative thoughts back to the front of your mind.

But as the affair is to you as if it happened last week, I think it best to leave the couple's counselling for a couple of weeks at least. But start your own therapy ASAP.

On reflection I can see why the therapist advised your wife not to tell you. Dumping the knowledge of an affair onto the innocent spouse can be viewed as "guilt transfer" and some former cheaters have been known to get all banged out of shape if their betrayed spouse is upset by the "confession." "Well, I was honest to him/her, but they just won't let it go!"

However, this 'keep your guilt locked in an iron box in the lumber room of your life' idea is great. Right up until the moment when the betrayed spouse somehow finds out about the affair. As happened in your case.

I suggest that you do nothing in anger, if you can avoid it.

A polygraph might be of benefit.

And remember, we are here for you. 

PS... Maybe you need to be honest with your wife? Have you ever told her that whilst she was seeking solace in the arms of another man, you were actively contemplating suicide to provide you with the solace you needed? If you haven't, maybe you should. Then she will truly begin to understand the depth of her betrayal.


----------



## ConanHub

Therapists who promote lies and cover ups regarding infidelity are an aggressive cancer to marriages.


----------



## ConanHub

MattMatt said:


> Or that she was, for a time, mentally ill.
> 
> And her colleague who would have been able to identify that she was mentally ill decided to not refer her to HR but to **** her instead.
> 
> Professional misconduct. He does not deserve to work in his field.


The texting has been taking place for years since.

This woman is self centered and vile.


----------



## syhoybenden

Do not stay with her just for the sake of the kids, whether they are yours or not.

Idkaname, a permanent separation/divorce from your cheating spouse and an untenable home situation is in the best interests of your children as well.

It is far far better for children to have COME FROM a broken home than to have to LIVE IN that broken home. 

Co-parenting is far preferable for them than to have to trap them in a seething nest of anger and failure.

You will always be their role model. She will not. Do not sully their image of what a good parent is by condoning her behaviour nor presence. Let them see what self respect is.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Cheaters lie to protect themselves. They are very selfish. They are liars, but not pathological liars. Unless they are in the sociopath/psychopath category. But your wife is not that.

First of all, the child may be yours, and I think you should do all you can to not stress your wife out until she gives birth. In the meantime, you can start preparing and investigating.

What do you know? You found a picture of your wife having sex with another man. Everything else comes from your wife.

You have the picture. I have been told there is metadata within the pictures that tell when the picture was taken. And maybe the latitude/longitude. Maybe other stuff. Search online for metadata in phone pictures.

The therapist might still be alive and practicing. Your wife can contact the therapist and maybe can set up a meeting with your wife, the therapist, and you - and you can find out if the therapist told your wife that she shouldn't tell.

I think you should call the guy now. Call him at work and ask about the affair. Was he the one? (Personally, I think your wife is telling the truth about that because it would be better for her to lie and make it a stranger she met in a convenience store who she no longer even remembers his address or workplace). Get any details you care about from the guy (assuming he is the guy). When the affair started, when it ended. (I would suspect the affair started before she told you and ended after she told you - maybe even pre-dated your tragedy). Don't tell your wife you're calling this guy. Keep in mind, your wife very likely already has called her (former?) lover to let you know that you are onto him and you might contact him. She probably still cares about him, likes him, has pleasant memories about him and how he was there for her after her tragedy, and she gets some good feelings that he desired and maybe still desires her. That's why people stay in touch with old lovers. As others have noted, staying in that workplace for all those years working closely with him is an insight into your wife's mental processes and feelings about that affair. Not confessing is one thing, but having you text the guy to relay messages and her working with him closely to the extent that they need external contact after hours is quite a much, much higher level.

You can get your children DNA tested now. You don't have to tell your wife. I suggest not telling her at this time. Maybe later.

I think telling her dad is probably a good idea. Not to punish her, but to support her. It helps you, too, because you want your child to be healthy and it will be difficult for you to support her - and the child and your wife are very connected health-wise right now.

That's it for now. Find out what happens and then act and investigate further accordingly.


----------



## MattMatt

ConanHub said:


> The texting has been taking place for years since.
> 
> This woman is self centered and vile.


Can't argue with you on that.


----------



## ConanHub

MattMatt said:


> Can't argue with you on that.


I am really wondering about said therapist.

Did this professional really believe hanging out every work day with her lover for years and having him involved in her life like nothing had happened was healthy???


----------



## notmyjamie

ConanHub said:


> I am really wondering about said therapist.
> 
> Did this professional really believe hanging out every work day with her lover for years and having him involved in her life like nothing had happened was healthy???


My Dad used to have a saying "In any group of people, you'll find your share of *******s." Same is true with incompetents in a professional field. I'd love to say everyone I work with is top notch but that's simply not true. Some people suck at their jobs and I think this therapist sucked at his/hers.


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> Compartmentalization is just another word for being an *******.
> 
> I think that's true in some cases. In other cases it's a sign of a mental health problem. That might apply here. Horrible circumstance + ****ty therapist = OP wife is not well. I call it burying stuff which I do know about. After I caught my husband trolling for sex with men, I listened to his excuses and lies and even though a part of me knew he was full of ****, I buried it all down deep so I could go on with my life and let my kids have a normal childhood. I knew it was true, but I didn't think about it every day, sometimes I went months without thinking about it. The human psyche is a crazy thing. I know you think it's crazy that someone would do that but it can happen. She might have just buried it all so deep so that she could survive that even though she saw him at work, she put it out of her mind. I saw my husband daily and I managed to put it out of my mind. Life is just not black and white sometimes. I think she made a horrible choice in how to deal with her grief and in listening to her crappy therapist. I don't think that means she's been cheating on OP for years.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see what the harm is in making her go live with her parents for a few weeks. She is not going to lose the child because of that. It's not like he is putting her out in the street. It may be better for her to get away as well. It would be good for her to have to sit and deal with her consequences. Them being together can't be good right now.
> 
> 
> I agree 100% as long as she's not the type to really lose it if he asks her to leave. She is not full term yet and stress like this can cause labor to kick in. I once had a patient in the reverse situation. She was 33 weeks pregnant and found evidence of her husband cheating. She was so distraught and stressed that she delivered early. Stress can absolutely cause contractions. And if she has a history of preterm labors she can easily go into labor at any time. He needs to be careful of how he proceeds here for his child's sake. I know that sucks for him but it is the truth.
> 
> 
> That seems reasonable and probably would be helpful for her as she is going to need support here. He can't be that for her and probably won't be for a long time.
> 
> Agreed. She needs to find a new support system for now. Hopefully her family, friends, and a better therapist.
> 
> He can also start the DNA tests. If this is a LTA which considering they still work together is at least possible there is a reasonable possibility that the kid is not his, point is he won't know for sure until it is born. At this point he should err on the kid being his but still protect himself.
> 
> If I were a man in this situation, I would absolutely do DNA testing. I would not tell my kids what I was doing but for my own peace of mind, I'd have to know. Except for my middle daughter who looks exactly like me LOL
> 
> He can do the delivery room and make it about the kid. If her parents know they can support her as the truth is he is probably going to be in no place to be able to do that. She still needs advocates. The thing is this is not his fault. It's a ****ty situation to be sure but you got to work with what you have.
> 
> It might be a good idea for her to have a backup support so he has a way to tap out when he really needs to get away from it all during the labor. 5 days is a pretty long time. Prodromal labors suck. She could also ask her doctor about the chances of augmenting the labor so it doesn't last as long this time. She should be honest with the doctor about why she wants to speed things up. She isn't sure her husband will be able to tolerate supporting her through such a long labor this time.
> 
> And I 100% agree this is not his fault.
> 
> Seeing an attorney is a must. If his wife is working alimony may not be necessary just child support. It is worth getting a sense of what he is look at. Also he doesn't want to be stuck paying for another man's child if this kid is not his.
> 
> Besides moving her out for a few weeks none of these things have to be done while confronting her, he can completely ignore her and do all of this.
> 
> Getting info on the guy also makes sense as well, again she doesn't and should know about it yet anyway. He can then meet with the wife to compare notes (if there is a wife) before his wife can warn this guy. After that if it was me, after the kid is born, I would make his wife call this women and apologize. That is very effective in turning her from someone abstract to a living breathing person who she cause terrible pain to.
> 
> Look I am not saying destroy her I am saying let her parents know for both of their benefit. What I am saying for sure is after the kid is born the best thing for him (and really her) in the long run is consequences for what she did. Nothing throws cold water on an affair faster then seeing all the **** it caused.
> 
> Oh and the counselor would be getting some wrath too.
> 
> Most of all DON'T BELIEVE A WORD SHE SAYS.
> 
> I agree with all of this. Nothing wrong with being informed of all your options. And yes, I'd be calling that therapist to let him/her know what the fallout is years later and how the choice to keep it secret was the absolute wrong choice. Now there are 3 children involved.


----------



## MattMatt

ConanHub said:


> I am really wondering about said therapist.
> 
> Did this professional really believe hanging out every work day with her lover for years and having him involved in her life like nothing had happened was healthy???


Unless the therapist wasn't made aware of that gem of information?


----------



## ConanHub

MattMatt said:


> Unless the therapist wasn't made aware of that gem of information?


I thought the same. These questions should be answered to see just how honest ww is being about it. If she is being truthful, this therapist needs an upbrading.


----------



## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.


Yeah, your W did not have any guilt. None what so ever. Your W let this go on for years. Seriously, why stay in this marriage? It has been a lie for years and years.


----------



## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> She said the affair was an escape. The only escape I was thinking of at that time was suicide. Sex isn't as escape.
> 
> She deleted the picture after I saw it but didn't clear it from the trash folder. I have it saved.
> 
> I can text or call her mom or dad tomorrow and tell them to come get her. I could tonight but it's late now. It might give me two weeks of peace before she goes into labour.
> 
> Is it too much if I follow the guy home from work to see where he lives? He works the same shifts as my wife so I know when he gets off.


The AP is not your problem. Your W is your problem.


----------



## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> If she has cheated her whole adult life would that not have come out by now? We have never kept devices private from each other. I'm her only relationship. She hasn't been raped or abused.
> 
> Her parents are hyper religious. They wouldn't condone her cheating. She is close with them and they will support her but she'd be in for a lot of lectures and disappointment.
> 
> My wife said no one knows aside from the therapist she told and a doctor when she had an STD test. Which was negative.
> 
> Am I looking for specific apps? Her phone is near me right now. She leaves it laying around.


More than likely the affair is over, however, affairs at work can be conducted at work. No reason to text or communicate while home.


----------



## TAMAT

Idkaname,

Conan wrote,*Therapists who promote lies and cover ups regarding infidelity are an aggressive cancer to marriages. *

Which is why I wrote very seriously that you should confront and report the therapist and or ask for the money back. Why did the therapist think he had to right to know more about your marriage than you did?

What is also shocking is that your wife continued to work with the OM for 9 years, I find it very difficult to believe that there was no physical contact between them during all that time. 

How did your WW go to work everyday seeing the OM and then go home to you and the kids she must have been in a constantly triggered state of mind.

Be aware of this waywards minimize and omit and what she is telling you now is likely a story she and OM agreed upon.


----------



## jsmart

To have a sexual affair a few months after loosing 2 children is sick. For her to allowed this guy to take pictures of her, shows that she was probably very wanton. I'd bet money that there were probably BJ pics and possibly worse that were deleted. Your PI friend can scour her old devices to find the deleted pics.

For her to continue to closely work with the guy and even have you text him for her knowing what they've done is really humiliating. I doubt very much that this was only a 6 month affair. It is very likely to have gone on for years. I would INSIST on a detailed timeline followed by a polygraph to verify the validity.

Please quickly DNA your 2 younger kids. Even if they look like you, it should be done to show her how much this destroyed your trust. More than likely they're your kids but it send a very strong message to her. 

Also you should definitely tell her parents about this, including that she's still works closely with him and that they took sex pics. Have your PI buddy dig this guys info. I'm sure he's married, then you can tell his wife. Trust me, she will come down hard on him being able to work with your wife.


----------



## stillthinking

Cheaters lie. 

If you are considering staying with her get DNA tests and Poly. 

If you are not, maybe skip the poly and save the money for lawyer fees.


----------



## idkaname

My wife looked for solace in the arms of another man. My answers were at the bottom of a bottle. We both previously struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was hospitalized for a few days. I was too scared an attempt would fail otherwise I probably would have done it. We blamed each other for the loss of our children and pushed each other away. Marriage and private counselling are no stranger to us. I ask myself if this is harder to overcome than what we have already conquered. Most couples who lose children do not stay together.

I want to believe what she tells me and I can't. Even if I do trust her she is still a cheater who cheats at the worst possible time. Now the secret is out and it's bad timing. She's been told to lower her stress before she goes into labour early. My son's movements are barely passing the tests the hospital does. She has to go every other day for several hours. I don't know if it's possible to reduce stress right now.

My wife has agreed to stay with her parents until she goes into labour. She doesn't go fast so there is no worry about missing the birth. There is plenty of warning. Her previous 4 labours have been the exact same. Day 1: 4 minutes apart. Day 2: 3 minutes apart. Day 3: 2 minutes apart. Day 4: 1 minute apart. Day 5: 30 seconds apart, water breaks and immediately pushing for 2 or 3 hours. It'll be 100 hours of hell. What do doctors do to speed it up? None of the previous labours have been sped up. She gets told to go home because it's false labour and will stop or slow down which it does not. Then instructed to go back when they are 30 seconds apart for an hour. I would like to show up at that point but unfortunately I cannot be that mean. Plus her dad would likely murder me if it's my son.

The picture:
A few months ago my wife uploaded old pictures from old phones and hard drives to the amazon photo drive for safe keeping. The pictures are sorted by date taken and the date is listed. Her second tattoo was done 7 years ago and it's not on her body in the picture. I did try to find the location but there was no info listed. That specific picture it's possible that she didn't know it was taken. He is the guy in the picture. The sleeve tattoo that is visible is the same as what I found on his facebook today.

My PI friend said to give him all of her current and old devices and he can pull off whatever was deleted and recoverable very quickly. He owes me a favour and he's going to help me out with whatever I need.

The guy:
I have met him many times in passing. He was allegedly divorced at the time and married now. Allegedly they don't talk about the affair. She doesn't know where he lives now because he allegedly moved. Allegedly the guy deleted the pictures he had and my wife hates him potentially having them. Allegedly she doesn't see him outside of work and asked him to not sit with her at lunch. I'm going to call him and ask for information. My wife said he'd have the same story and that makes me think they collaborated. I found the guys facebook page and he is clearly married with kids. His wife's profile is linked to his.

The affair:
The first three months involved frequent sex. The final 3 or 4 months slowed down until she ended it. They had sex at his condo which at the time was a block away from the hospital. Allegedly he moved several years ago. She needed an escape from reality and to pretend she was living a different life. Allegedly she didn't want him to take pictures. They didn't use condoms and allegedly she tested negative for STD's.

Work:
They work on a team working with many of the same patients. If she thinks of something that will help a patient she will text him and they bounce ideas off of each other. Allegedly their texts are work related. She didn't quit her job because her employer was understanding of the tragedy we were going through. Later she was scared I would figure out that she cheated if she quit her job because it would have been fishy. She felt like having to work with him was punishment for what she did. She allegedly doesn't think about sex with him and doesn't have feelings for him. She claims guilt has soured every good moment we've had. Allegedly she has been scared that I'd find out one day. Allegedly she is scared when I want to talk about something or am in an off mood. Allegedly she was told by the therapist to keep her guilt to herself because the affair was over and it wasn't fair to put her guilt onto me. She was told to find a new job and end contact. She did not do that.

The therapist:
My wife allegedly forgets his name. I will have to try and find it.

Her parents:
I told her to call her mom or dad in front of me and tell them what she did and that she's going to stay with them for now. I didn't trust her not to tell them a different story. She wasn't happy about telling them and begged me not to make her do that. 

Her cell:
In their call history there are about three calls a month lasting 1 to 5 minutes. Their texts are work related. Data use on her phone is the same as it has always been. Hovering 2GB out of 15GB. She's sent 180-200 texts a month total. About 30 to this guy. There are no weird apps on her phone. I've always had full access to her phone. Since going on leave she has texted him twice and no calls. He could be at my house while I work for all I know. She has also texted two other colleagues.

DNA testing:
I ordered three tests and I can do those. The results are fast. My wife is upset that I want to DNA tests but she says she knows they are my children.

Polygraph:
I just asked her if she would do one and she said NO because she doesn't know if they are reliable or give false results.


1. She doesn't want to do a polygraph.
2. She looked scared when I said I'd call the guy.
3. She said he'd have the same story as her.
4. She claims to forget the name of the therapist who told her not to tell me.
5. He use to live very close to their workplace and that's where they had sex but allegedly he moved and she has no idea where. They have 1 hour lunch breaks and could easily go to his condo if she's lying about him moving.
6. He's married with kids.
7. The sleeve tattoo is the same as what is in his facebook pictures. He is the guy in the picture.

I think she's lying to me. I don't know what I'm going to do. I need to know if the new baby is mine.


----------



## farsidejunky

Fear of the poly is a HUGE red flag.

You don't have the whole truth...which is exactly why you should schedule one.

Be prepared for a parking lot (or sooner) confession.

ETA: YOU DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE TRUTH. 

"Wife, until I have reached a point that I feel like I have the whole truth, there will be zero chance of reconciliation. You are responsible for giving me the entire truth, no matter how painful you think it may be. Without that truth, I can PROMISE you our marriage is over."

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Cletus

idkaname said:


> 1. She doesn't want to do a polygraph.


Let's put to rest the polygraph talk once and for all. It's junk science. People need to stop believing in them and prescribing them for anything other than entertainment value. 

https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph


----------



## farsidejunky

Cletus said:


> Let's put to rest the polygraph talk once and for all. It's junk science. People need to stop believing in them and prescribing them for anything other than entertainment value.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph


It may be, it may not be.

Following through with the poly (to me) is less about the test and more about psychological warfare when trickle truth is occurring.

I think it is safe to say she is TT'ing at this point. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## idkaname

farsidejunky said:


> It may be, it may not be.
> 
> Following through with the poly (to me) is less about the test and more about psychological warfare when trickle truth is occurring.
> 
> I think it is safe to say she is TT'ing at this point.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


What is trickle truth?


----------



## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> My wife looked for solace in the arms of another man. My answers were at the bottom of a bottle. We both previously struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was hospitalized for a few days. I was too scared an attempt would fail otherwise I probably would have done it. We blamed each other for the loss of our children and pushed each other away. Marriage and private counselling are no stranger to us. I ask myself if this is harder to overcome than what we have already conquered. Most couples who lose children do not stay together.
> 
> I want to believe what she tells me and I can't. Even if I do trust her she is still a cheater who cheats at the worst possible time. Now the secret is out and it's bad timing. She's been told to lower her stress before she goes into labour early. My son's movements are barely passing the tests the hospital does. She has to go every other day for several hours. I don't know if it's possible to reduce stress right now.
> 
> My wife has agreed to stay with her parents until she goes into labour. She doesn't go fast so there is no worry about missing the birth. There is plenty of warning. Her previous 4 labours have been the exact same. Day 1: 4 minutes apart. Day 2: 3 minutes apart. Day 3: 2 minutes apart. Day 4: 1 minute apart. Day 5: 30 seconds apart, water breaks and immediately pushing for 2 or 3 hours. It'll be 100 hours of hell. What do doctors do to speed it up? None of the previous labours have been sped up. She gets told to go home because it's false labour and will stop or slow down which it does not. Then instructed to go back when they are 30 seconds apart for an hour. I would like to show up at that point but unfortunately I cannot be that mean. Plus her dad would likely murder me if it's my son.
> 
> The picture:
> A few months ago my wife uploaded old pictures from old phones and hard drives to the amazon photo drive for safe keeping. The pictures are sorted by date taken and the date is listed. Her second tattoo was done 7 years ago and it's not on her body in the picture. I did try to find the location but there was no info listed. That specific picture it's possible that she didn't know it was taken. He is the guy in the picture. The sleeve tattoo that is visible is the same as what I found on his facebook today.
> 
> My PI friend said to give him all of her current and old devices and he can pull off whatever was deleted and recoverable very quickly. He owes me a favour and he's going to help me out with whatever I need.
> 
> The guy:
> I have met him many times in passing. He was allegedly divorced at the time and married now. Allegedly they don't talk about the affair. She doesn't know where he lives now because he allegedly moved. Allegedly the guy deleted the pictures he had and my wife hates him potentially having them. Allegedly she doesn't see him outside of work and asked him to not sit with her at lunch. I'm going to call him and ask for information. My wife said he'd have the same story and that makes me think they collaborated. I found the guys facebook page and he is clearly married with kids. His wife's profile is linked to his.
> 
> The affair:
> The first three months involved frequent sex. The final 3 or 4 months slowed down until she ended it. They had sex at his condo which at the time was a block away from the hospital. Allegedly he moved several years ago. She needed an escape from reality and to pretend she was living a different life. Allegedly she didn't want him to take pictures. They didn't use condoms and allegedly she tested negative for STD's.
> 
> Work:
> They work on a team working with many of the same patients. If she thinks of something that will help a patient she will text him and they bounce ideas off of each other. Allegedly their texts are work related. She didn't quit her job because her employer was understanding of the tragedy we were going through. Later she was scared I would figure out that she cheated if she quit her job because it would have been fishy. She felt like having to work with him was punishment for what she did. She allegedly doesn't think about sex with him and doesn't have feelings for him. She claims guilt has soured every good moment we've had. Allegedly she has been scared that I'd find out one day. Allegedly she is scared when I want to talk about something or am in an off mood. Allegedly she was told by the therapist to keep her guilt to herself because the affair was over and it wasn't fair to put her guilt onto me. She was told to find a new job and end contact. She did not do that.
> 
> The therapist:
> My wife allegedly forgets his name. I will have to try and find it.
> 
> Her parents:
> I told her to call her mom or dad in front of me and tell them what she did and that she's going to stay with them for now. I didn't trust her not to tell them a different story. She wasn't happy about telling them and begged me not to make her do that.
> 
> Her cell:
> In their call history there are about three calls a month lasting 1 to 5 minutes. Their texts are work related. Data use on her phone is the same as it has always been. Hovering 2GB out of 15GB. She's sent 180-200 texts a month total. About 30 to this guy. There are no weird apps on her phone. I've always had full access to her phone. Since going on leave she has texted him twice and no calls. He could be at my house while I work for all I know. She has also texted two other colleagues.
> 
> DNA testing:
> I ordered three tests and I can do those. The results are fast. My wife is upset that I want to DNA tests but she says she knows they are my children.
> 
> Polygraph:
> I just asked her if she would do one and she said NO because she doesn't know if they are reliable or give false results.
> 
> 
> 1. She doesn't want to do a polygraph.
> 2. She looked scared when I said I'd call the guy.
> 3. She said he'd have the same story as her.
> 4. She claims to forget the name of the therapist who told her not to tell me.
> 5. He use to live very close to their workplace and that's where they had sex but allegedly he moved and she has no idea where. They have 1 hour lunch breaks and could easily go to his condo if she's lying about him moving.
> 6. He's married with kids.
> 7. The sleeve tattoo is the same as what is in his facebook pictures. He is the guy in the picture.
> 
> I think she's lying to me. I don't know what I'm going to do. I need to know if the new baby is mine.



Appears to be trickle truth as well as the tip of the iceberg. I fear there is more news to come.


----------



## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> What is trickle truth?


Feeding you just a little bit of info at a time. Everyday just a bit more comes out.


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## farsidejunky

idkaname said:


> What is trickle truth?


Telling you only the information she thinks you know, or withholding part of the truth.

Example: betrayed spouse (BS) finds the incriminating picture. Wayward spouse (WS) says she slept with him once, and used protection. A week later BS uncovers a receipt for plan b. WS then says they didn't use protection. Later the BS finds hotel receipts from ten different occasions. Then the WS says it wasn't just once, but several times.

See how that works? It is copping to just enough to satisfy the amount of evidence uncovered to that point. 

Ask yourself this: why does she fear the polygraph?

Even if poly's are junk science, fear of the poly is in and of itself a tool. 

Use it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## idkaname

She hasn't done that yet but it hasn't even been two weeks. Her story has stayed the same so far. 

Do cheaters usually lie about using condoms? She said they didn't use them without me asking. That worries me for what she is lying about and going to trickle out later. 

The idea is to tell her to do a polygraph and expect a confession before actually doing it? My PI friend said no one will do it on a pregnant woman.


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## Marc878

I would assume the new baby is yours for the time being. 

Under the circumstances you can DNA later.

Good luck man


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## farsidejunky

idkaname said:


> She hasn't done that yet but it hasn't even been two weeks. Her story has stayed the same so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Do cheaters usually lie about using condoms? She said they didn't use them without me asking. That worries me for what she is lying about and going to trickle out later.
> 
> 
> 
> The idea is to tell her to do a polygraph and expect a confession before actually doing it? My PI friend said no one will do it on a pregnant woman.


Cheaters often do it...but like any group of people, there will be trends but nothing absolute. 

Confession: yes. It is called the parking lot confession because just before the couple enters the building, there is often, "Honey...before we go in, there are a few other things I need to tell you about..."

I would not be at all surprised that poly's are not administered to pregnant women. It will have to wait should that be the direction you choose. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

idkaname said:


> My wife looked for solace in the arms of another man. My answers were at the bottom of a bottle. We both previously struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was hospitalized for a few days. I was too scared an attempt would fail otherwise I probably would have done it. We blamed each other for the loss of our children and pushed each other away. Marriage and private counselling are no stranger to us. I ask myself if this is harder to overcome than what we have already conquered. Most couples who lose children do not stay together.....


What you do is you accept that your wife is a very different person then you though she was. Actually you are doing good. Continue to try to figure out her lies. Be prepared that what you friend uncovers is probably going to be very painful. None of this is your fault or says anything about you as a person or a husband. Most people have had this happen to them at least once in their life. Unfortunately you had it happen with your wife. 

There is nothing we can tell you that is going to make this any less painful right now, yes it's going to suck, but if you are assertive and walk through this with courage and strength it can turn into something to be proud of later. You need to detach from your wife. Believe that your marriage is over, and even if you decide to continue with her the marriage and the women you thought you were with is gone forever. Understand if you continue with this women it is THIS liar who you are going to be with. It will be a very different marriage, how could it not? Don't get bogged down in spending the next 20 years of your life trying to get back something that hasn't been for a very long time. You will only be disappointing. Your marriage and your wife as you knew her is dead. Your wife has not been in your marriage for a long time, you can't truly be in a marriage and not be authentic. Accept that. 

I think your right to NOT believe your wife. I would bet this is an off off affair for years. Her story don't make sense any other way. It also doesn't take long to call someone and say lets meet up tomorrow so the short calls on the phone is not proof of anything. 

Make sure she follows through with the call to her parents. I would also let them know that you are not confident that you have the full story and it very well could be ongoing. That right now you are not even sure your kids are yours. That she has been around him every day for 9 years. If they are truly religious like you say they will want her to tell the truth they will impress on her to do that. In the end yes they will pick their daughter but at least right now they will still want her to do the right thing. 

Dude the most you can know is your wife is a liar and a phony. Unfortunately at your lowest point she didn't just abandoned you she abused you. She is still hiding and covering for this guy who helped her do it. I wouldn't wish what has happened to you on my worst enemy. I am very sorry that you are going through this, and I hate to have to be the one to tell you this but you are on your own. And you have been on your own for a long time. 

Question, if she didn't want him to take the pictures, why did she have one? Again you would think she would have gotten rid of them as fast as possible, never have them on her phone. 

Just like if she was ashamed and felt sorrow how did she talk and interact with him all those years. Dude you need to tell his wife, not call him. He is going to lie just like her. You need to tell his wife the he works every day with a married women who he had a sexual affair with after she just lost a child. Tell her you have no idea if it is over or if he was married to her at the time. Don't trust your wife on this, she is a liar. His wife needs to know what a morally corrupt man she is married to. Plus it may force his hand and his wife may force him to leave the job. 

This is what they do, they lie. It's who they are.

If she was the most contrite person in the world this would be hard but she is not in the least yet. Be prepared for "well meaning" people blaming PTSD for this **** and her monstrous actions. When they do ask them should you go off and **** a bunch of women now since you are obviously dealing with a terrible trauma? Then tell them to **** off. People show you who they are when life gets hard, your wife has been a dishonest person for a long while. Also if you decide to end the marriage if anyone tries to guilt you about your kids tell them to talk to your wife. She is the one who abandoned you, she was the one who decided to hide it from you and have kids. This could have been dealt with way before right now. The timing, the kids, everything is entirely her fault. 

I think it's best for you to separate right now because this stuff is just adding stress to her pregnancy. I would hold off on the confrontations for now, just get her out of the house so you are not seeing her. Don't yell at her, don't grill her just get her away from you. Knowing how these things work her parents need to be there and should be told to watch her closely. When stuff like this breaks with people have built up years of lies even to themselves, it can be very hard to suddenly know what a POS you are. Seriously have them watch her closely. Which is another reason why it's immoral to tell people not to hide their affair, especially when you are in the position of counselor. Look at how this is unfolding. How can anyone argue it wouldn't have been better for the marriage just to end 9 years ago. 

Look I wish I could just tell you everything will be alright and there will be a happy ending with her, a lot of that depends on the type of person you are. Maybe you can life with it. I know I couldn't. That would go against my nature, it would break everything I believe about myself. Yes I would eventually forgive but I could not spend the rest of my life going against my nature especially for someone who stabbed me in the back at my lowest point. I will never love a person enough to do that. 

I can tell you there is great freedom in letting it go and accepting that things end in life. Sometimes in life you can do your best and it still doesn't work out. I am not saying that to make light of the situation, just trying to give you some perceptive. You will do better if you look at your marriage as something you did to the best of your ability and you just were with the wrong person. Maybe one day you will believe that the death of your kids changed her. But for now you will do better if you act like you are in war, not that she is your enemy but turn your feeling down and attack this with steely discipline.

Finally I can tell you that if you use this to make yourself stronger there is still great hope for you to have a great remainder of your life. Truth is you are going to get to this point no matter what you do, but if you do it with agency you will get there faster. You are not even 40, you have gone through the 2 most painful things in life you ever will. You are still here, you are still pushing forward.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> Let's put to rest the polygraph talk once and for all. It's junk science. People need to stop believing in them and prescribing them for anything other than entertainment value.
> 
> https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph


It's not the point. The point is to put the fear of God into them and get them to confess.


----------



## aine

idkaname said:


> My wife looked for solace in the arms of another man. My answers were at the bottom of a bottle. We both previously struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was hospitalized for a few days. I was too scared an attempt would fail otherwise I probably would have done it. We blamed each other for the loss of our children and pushed each other away. Marriage and private counselling are no stranger to us. I ask myself if this is harder to overcome than what we have already conquered. Most couples who lose children do not stay together.
> 
> I want to believe what she tells me and I can't. Even if I do trust her she is still a cheater who cheats at the worst possible time. Now the secret is out and it's bad timing. She's been told to lower her stress before she goes into labour early. My son's movements are barely passing the tests the hospital does. She has to go every other day for several hours. I don't know if it's possible to reduce stress right now.
> 
> My wife has agreed to stay with her parents until she goes into labour. She doesn't go fast so there is no worry about missing the birth. There is plenty of warning. Her previous 4 labours have been the exact same. Day 1: 4 minutes apart. Day 2: 3 minutes apart. Day 3: 2 minutes apart. Day 4: 1 minute apart. Day 5: 30 seconds apart, water breaks and immediately pushing for 2 or 3 hours. It'll be 100 hours of hell. What do doctors do to speed it up? None of the previous labours have been sped up. She gets told to go home because it's false labour and will stop or slow down which it does not. Then instructed to go back when they are 30 seconds apart for an hour. I would like to show up at that point but unfortunately I cannot be that mean. Plus her dad would likely murder me if it's my son.
> 
> The picture:
> A few months ago my wife uploaded old pictures from old phones and hard drives to the amazon photo drive for safe keeping. The pictures are sorted by date taken and the date is listed. Her second tattoo was done 7 years ago and it's not on her body in the picture. I did try to find the location but there was no info listed. That specific picture it's possible that she didn't know it was taken. He is the guy in the picture. The sleeve tattoo that is visible is the same as what I found on his facebook today.
> 
> My PI friend said to give him all of her current and old devices and he can pull off whatever was deleted and recoverable very quickly. He owes me a favour and he's going to help me out with whatever I need.
> 
> The guy:
> I have met him many times in passing. He was allegedly divorced at the time and married now. Allegedly they don't talk about the affair. She doesn't know where he lives now because he allegedly moved. Allegedly the guy deleted the pictures he had and my wife hates him potentially having them. Allegedly she doesn't see him outside of work and asked him to not sit with her at lunch. I'm going to call him and ask for information. My wife said he'd have the same story and that makes me think they collaborated. I found the guys facebook page and he is clearly married with kids. His wife's profile is linked to his.
> 
> The affair:
> The first three months involved frequent sex. The final 3 or 4 months slowed down until she ended it. They had sex at his condo which at the time was a block away from the hospital. Allegedly he moved several years ago. She needed an escape from reality and to pretend she was living a different life. Allegedly she didn't want him to take pictures. They didn't use condoms and allegedly she tested negative for STD's.
> 
> Work:
> They work on a team working with many of the same patients. If she thinks of something that will help a patient she will text him and they bounce ideas off of each other. Allegedly their texts are work related. She didn't quit her job because her employer was understanding of the tragedy we were going through. Later she was scared I would figure out that she cheated if she quit her job because it would have been fishy. She felt like having to work with him was punishment for what she did. She allegedly doesn't think about sex with him and doesn't have feelings for him. She claims guilt has soured every good moment we've had. Allegedly she has been scared that I'd find out one day. Allegedly she is scared when I want to talk about something or am in an off mood. Allegedly she was told by the therapist to keep her guilt to herself because the affair was over and it wasn't fair to put her guilt onto me. She was told to find a new job and end contact. She did not do that.
> 
> The therapist:
> My wife allegedly forgets his name. I will have to try and find it.
> 
> Her parents:
> I told her to call her mom or dad in front of me and tell them what she did and that she's going to stay with them for now. I didn't trust her not to tell them a different story. She wasn't happy about telling them and begged me not to make her do that.
> 
> Her cell:
> In their call history there are about three calls a month lasting 1 to 5 minutes. Their texts are work related. Data use on her phone is the same as it has always been. Hovering 2GB out of 15GB. She's sent 180-200 texts a month total. About 30 to this guy. There are no weird apps on her phone. I've always had full access to her phone. Since going on leave she has texted him twice and no calls. He could be at my house while I work for all I know. She has also texted two other colleagues.
> 
> DNA testing:
> I ordered three tests and I can do those. The results are fast. My wife is upset that I want to DNA tests but she says she knows they are my children.
> 
> Polygraph:
> I just asked her if she would do one and she said NO because she doesn't know if they are reliable or give false results.
> 
> 
> 1. She doesn't want to do a polygraph.
> 2. She looked scared when I said I'd call the guy.
> 3. She said he'd have the same story as her.
> 4. She claims to forget the name of the therapist who told her not to tell me.
> 5. He use to live very close to their workplace and that's where they had sex but allegedly he moved and she has no idea where. They have 1 hour lunch breaks and could easily go to his condo if she's lying about him moving.
> 6. He's married with kids.
> 7. The sleeve tattoo is the same as what is in his facebook pictures. He is the guy in the picture.
> 
> I think she's lying to me. I don't know what I'm going to do. I need to know if the new baby is mine.


Now after all the 'scorched earth' proponents have had their say I think it is time that people really consider the circumstances. I am as much 'scorched earth' on cheaters as the next. However it is very true that people do awful things when they are in the midst of grief, including abusing drugs, alcohol (as our OP did), infidelity, (as his WW did) etc. Just check the internet and you will find many many cases of such.

The OP was not there for his wife (her choice was to seek solace with someone else, wrong as it might be) but how wrong was he to abandon his wife and seek comfort in alcohol? 
This is not a straight up cheating case as many of you want to believe and I think we have here two very very broken people, making wrong choices and now facing the consequences because of exposure. 
To my mind this is not a straight forward betrayal. OP you need to hold it together until after the kids is born. I know it is painful to think of your wife with another man but let me tell you as someone married to an alcoholic it is also very painful to be married to someone who abandons you when you need them most (let that sink in). Two wrongs don't make a right though.
It is your choice whether to divorce your wife or to get counselling and come to a place of forgiveness. You have both been through so so much, both of you, lost so much in your young lives. Maybe now is a time for compassion and a true understanding of what was going on.
Of course you are angry, grieved and confused. Do not many any decisions now. I would suggest you have IC to work through your own emotions first so you can see the facts for what they are. Your wife has some explaining to do, you have some investigating to do. Go slow and please do tell your family and her family and your friends. It is better that this is exposed so that you have the support that you will need in the next month or so


----------



## jsmart

You need to insist that she provide a detailed timeline of the affair. It should include as much detailed as possible, including 1st time they cross the line, 1st time sex. Last time sex. Frequency of hookups. 

Also you can create a list of questions of thing you want to know. Such as did she tell him she loved him? Many BHs include questions about sex acts, such as did they have anal, did she swallow, etc but that may not be important to you unless those are things she's refused to do with you. 

Have the kids go to grand parents so you can have undisturbed time to ask the questions. 

As for a poly, they usually only allow 3 or 4 questions that have to be true or false. So you have to narrow it down to questions such as were there other affairs or ONS? and any question on the questionnaire that you need verified. This can wait a couple of months after the baby is born.

I have to say that her not wanting to do the poly and getting nervous about talking to the OM, doesn't look good. Also her getting upset about the DNA, afte what she's done is sickening. She should be bending over backwards to make you feel secure but she's in cover up mode. I'm afraid you're going to find that this affair was longer and deeper than she revealed.


----------



## Jus260

notmyjamie said:


> As for continuing to work with him, if it really was just sex to her and there were no feelings involved she probably doesn't even think of that time with him anymore and so working with him is not a constant reminder to her so no reason to get a new job.


Would you say a normal reasonable person could have sex with someone for allegedly more than half a year, then continue working with that person like nothing ever happened? I understand devil's advocate, but still.

What's always stated on this board is that whatever you were told in the first confession is always understated by a longshot. 

I don't think he should skip the birth unless he gets a DNA test that confirms he is not the father. That test should have been done immediately. His name should not go on the birth certificate until that is confirmed. At this point, I probably wouldn't DNA the other children.


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> It's not the point. The point is to put the fear of God into them and get them to confess.


Perhaps it's not the point for you. What if someone you're counseling actually 1) believes they work 2) gets their spouse to take one and then 3) kicks them out based on the results, which have never been shown to be even remotely reliable?

It's bull****. Bad advice is bad advice regardless.


----------



## Loveshorror

aine said:


> Now after all the 'scorched earth' proponents have had their say I think it is time that people really consider the circumstances. I am as much 'scorched earth' on cheaters as the next. However it is very true that people do awful things when they are in the midst of grief, including abusing drugs, alcohol (as our OP did), infidelity, (as his WW did) etc. Just check the internet and you will find many many cases of such.
> 
> The OP was not there for his wife (her choice was to seek solace with someone else, wrong as it might be) but how wrong was he to abandon his wife and seek comfort in alcohol?
> This is not a straight up cheating case as many of you want to believe and I think we have here two very very broken people, making wrong choices and now facing the consequences because of exposure.
> To my mind this is not a straight forward betrayal. OP you need to hold it together until after the kids is born. I know it is painful to think of your wife with another man but let me tell you as someone married to an alcoholic it is also very painful to be married to someone who abandons you when you need them most (let that sink in). Two wrongs don't make a right though.
> It is your choice whether to divorce your wife or to get counselling and come to a place of forgiveness. You have both been through so so much, both of you, lost so much in your young lives. Maybe now is a time for compassion and a true understanding of what was going on.
> Of course you are angry, grieved and confused. Do not many any decisions now. I would suggest you have IC to work through your own emotions first so you can see the facts for what they are. Your wife has some explaining to do, you have some investigating to do. Go slow and please do tell your family and her family and your friends. It is better that this is exposed so that you have the support that you will need in the next month or so


This wasn't a ONS (not that that is okay) done out of insane grief - but constant, deliberate f***king for 6 months. Also, the fact she stayed in constant contact and even had her husband text him is particularly vile. Even now, she continues to stonewall and fail to be forthcoming.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> Perhaps it's not the point for you. What if someone you're counseling actually 1) believes they work 2) gets their spouse to take one and then 3) kicks them out based on the results, which have never been shown to be even remotely reliable?
> 
> It's bull****. Bad advice is bad advice regardless.


Except that it is still used by law agencies and the government thousands of times every day. Is it a true lie detector test? Nope but it definitely can help you get to the truth and that is why it is suggested.


----------



## farsidejunky

Let's stop the thread jack. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Cletus

sokillme said:


> Accept that it is still used by law agencies and the government thousands of times every day. Is it a true lie detector test? Nope but it definitely can help you get to the truth and that is why it is suggested.


Nope, not giving in on this one. Why do hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people still read their horoscope as more than entertainment?

Agree to disagree, I guess, but you're objectively wrong.


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

Call the hospital HR, threaten a lawsuit for sexual harassment if they don't fire him.

Get in touch with his Wife, tell her you suspect they still had an ongoing affair, suggest she snoop on him.

Give her the numbers for divorce attorneys, PIs and polygraph operators. 

Try to find out if he has other affairs you can tell his wife about, perhaps your WW knows.


----------



## notmyjamie

Jus260 said:


> Would you say a normal reasonable person could have sex with someone for allegedly more than half a year, then continue working with that person like nothing ever happened? I understand devil's advocate, but still.




No, I wouldn't say that and that's the point. Two of her children had just died for God's sake. And she was losing her husband to the bottom of a bottle. Can you even imagine what that was like for her? She told him that she was afraid changing jobs would clue him in so she stayed. 

And yes, people can have a sexual relationship and then still work together. I've done it. Granted, I wasn't cheating...I was the betrayed girlfriend but still. And he cheated on me with another coworker...who he ended up marrying! If I had to interact with him or her because of work I did and I put all the **** out of my mind and just did my damn job.

The more I read this thread the worse I feel for both OP and his wife. So many strong opinions about a time in their life that most of can't even imagine living through ourselves. Her explanation for why she sought out another man is very believable even if some people here can't accept it. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the OP can believe it and forgive. I'm assuming his wife has forgiven him for all the drinking...for being so zoned out from her out he admits he wouldn't have noticed if she died until the body started to smell. That's some pretty heavy abandonment in a time of crisis. If she could find her way to forgive that then the OP should at least try to show her the same consideration now.


----------



## sokillme

When it comes out that this is a LTA all this feeling sorry for OP's wife is going to seem very silly.

Drinking and not being around doesn't make ****ing someone else and saving pictures of it acceptable. Maybe I your marriages God help you. That is the type of mentality that allows people to cheat.


----------



## Buddy400

idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.
> 
> I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work. I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.
> 
> Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook.
> 
> What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


In almost every case, there'd be good reason to expect that the affair was on-going or could reignite.

However, given your horrible situation at the time and the grief that you and your wife were suffering with, I believe that her story is likely true.

Others will think I'm crazy, but I'm highly confident that the affair is a thing of the past and happened only because of the uniquely bad situation she was in at the time.

Ask your wife if he's married. 

Why wouldn't she tell you? Why would she think you shouldn't ask?


----------



## jsmart

Give your PI friend her old devices. He should be able to retrieve any old emails or pics that your WW tried to delete. 

Also don't talk to the OM. Go straight to his wife and let her know exactly what you know. That they have been working closely together for the past 9 years and that you're trying to get proof if it actually ended. Let him face his wife's wrath.

Also please tell her parents everything, including that she is in close contact with this guy for the past 9 years, and that she allowed him to take sex pics of her. Even though they're going to be protective of her, they will likely hold her accountable. 

Right now she needs to prove that it was 7 month sex only affair but knowing how most WW are in their affairs, I bet that she was very emotionally invested in this guy and that it lasted much longer than she's revealed or at the very least repeat hook ups over the years were a strong possibility.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

notmyjamie said:


> No, I wouldn't say that and that's the point. Two of her children had just died for God's sake. And she was losing her husband to the bottom of a bottle. Can you even imagine what that was like for her? She told him that she was afraid changing jobs would clue him in so she stayed.
> 
> And yes, people can have a sexual relationship and then still work together. I've done it. Granted, I wasn't cheating...I was the betrayed girlfriend but still. And he cheated on me with another coworker...who he ended up marrying! If I had to interact with him or her because of work I did and I put all the **** out of my mind and just did my damn job.
> 
> The more I read this thread the worse I feel for both OP and his wife. So many strong opinions about a time in their life that most of can't even imagine living through ourselves. Her explanation for why she sought out another man is very believable even if some people here can't accept it. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the OP can believe it and forgive. I'm assuming his wife has forgiven him for all the drinking...for being so zoned out from her out he admits he wouldn't have noticed if she died until the body started to smell. That's some pretty heavy abandonment in a time of crisis. If she could find her way to forgive that then the OP should at least try to show her the same consideration now.


:bsflag:

The greater the hurt, the greater the tragedy, the greater the pain, the more you should turn _toward _your spouse, not away. Being there for each other in the hard times is one of the bedrock elements of marriage. If you're not each other's first and only in sickness and in health, in good times and bad, etc. then why the hell get married in the first place?

And oh, btw, do you not think the father was also grieving, miserable, and in need of comfort? 

The pain and tragedy of the horrific loss of child is probably the worst thing any parent can ever go through... and being the most horrific of all possibilities that only reinforces even more that turning TO your spouse is the only real path here. (exception being that if the spouse was in some way actually responsible for the death of the child, but that doesn't appear to be the case here)

And even if you can rationalize the adultery at such a time in the first place, the behavior since then clearly indicates a fundamental lack of character rather than a temporary, grief-driven incident of bad behavior (but of course we already knew that since we already knew that the affair lasted 7 months... minimum; knowing how cheaters trickle truth, in all likelihood it's even longer).


----------



## Buddy400

notmyjamie said:


> To be very clear, I'm not at all saying I condone her behavior. I'm just trying to see it a little differently. She was likely not in her right mind due to the grief. That's all I mean.


I agree completely with your take on this.

Hopefully you'll keep it up and I can just 'like' all your posts. Easier than typing and you're doing a better job of explaining it than I could.


----------



## sokillme

Infidelity may be a reasonable reaction to your husband drinking for some, but divorce as actually a MORALLY ACCEPTABLE reaction to your spouse cheating on you for most. I will never understand why some posters seem to always have a bigger problem with the divorce then the cheating? They are quick to give a pass for the cheating but vehemently argue to avoid divorce at all cost.

She chose to lie and remove his agency for 9 years. 9 YEARS!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Buddy400 said:


> I agree completely with your take on this.
> 
> Hopefully you'll keep it up and I can just 'like' all your posts. Easier than typing and you're doing a better job of explaining it than I could.


So at what point did she become in "her right mind?'

Apparently not ever, since she continued to keep pictures and hide the affair and (at least) work daily with the affair partner, etc. 

Lots of bad behavior after any reasonable period of grief based mitigation has passed.


----------



## BluesPower

Cletus said:


> Perhaps it's not the point for you. What if someone you're counseling actually 1) believes they work 2) gets their spouse to take one and then 3) kicks them out based on the results, which have never been shown to be even remotely reliable?
> 
> It's bull****. Bad advice is bad advice regardless.


You are wrong about this in everyway. I work around this all the time. 

Almost no one can beat a poly unless they are trained, really trained, or they are a sociopath... Bottom line. 

Are they perfect, no. Are they legally admissible no. Are they helpful in this type of situation, you bet your ass... 

This whole story is way, way bigger, than you can even imagine. 

OP, Hold on to your hat. Be strong...


----------



## wilson

The manner in which she chose to deal with the grief is hard to comprehend regardless of whether she was having an affair or not. At that time to turn to sex after such an emotionally traumatic event does not seem normal to me. I'm sure some people do it, but I would have trouble relating to the motivation of such a person. Turn to drugs and alcohol to numb the pain? Sure, totally understandable. Ignore your spouse to go solo hiking for several months? Sure, totally understandable. Have sex with some coworker? Not understanding that. Having an affair? Not understanding that. 

So not only do you have to think about if you want to rebuild with someone who would have an affair, but also someone who would have an affair under those circumstances. There are times when we can understand the motivation for having an affair, and in those cases it can make reconciliation a bit more straightforward. But here it seems the whole thing is so inappropriate that it's going to add a lot more difficulty. You'll have to come to terms with her being a cheater, and also come to terms with her turning to cheating when all that was going on.


----------



## samyeagar

sokillme said:


> Infidelity may be a reasonable reaction to your husband drinking for some, but divorce as actually a MORALLY ACCEPTABLE reaction to your spouse cheating on you for most. I will never understand why is it some posters seem to always have a bigger problem with the divorce then the cheating? They are quick to give a pass for the cheating but vehemently argue to avoid divorce at all cost.
> 
> She chose to lie and remove his agency for 9 years. 9 YEARS!


I can see and understand the cheating as a response to the extreme circumstances. Does not mean I agree with it, but I do understand it. Accepting that explanation, and if it were actually the truth, one would think that of any type of affair to come clean about right away, this would be it.

That said, I think the advice and decision to try and hide it was an egregious and unforgivable miscalculation and lapse in judgement.


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## Marc878

It's too early for scorched earth tactics (probably not needed anyway in this case) he has a pregnant wife to consider as well.

OP needs to let the PI get the gist of the situation and either verify or get the truth of the matter. Until he has that clarity I wouldn't do anything else.

Upfront most think divorce but that normally changes on a day to day basis.

The problem is when you open the door to infidelity ( circumstances/excuses don't matter much when you get a picture of another man with your wife) you never know how it's going to play out early on.

OP has a lot on his plate and much thinking ahead of him. Be well advised not to make any rash decisions you may regret later. Easier said than done.


----------



## Jus260

notmyjamie said:


> No, I wouldn't say that and that's the point. Two of her children had just died for God's sake. And she was losing her husband to the bottom of a bottle. Can you even imagine what that was like for her? She told him that she was afraid changing jobs would clue him in so she stayed.
> 
> And yes, people can have a sexual relationship and then still work together. I've done it. Granted, I wasn't cheating...I was the betrayed girlfriend but still. And he cheated on me with another coworker...who he ended up marrying! If I had to interact with him or her because of work I did and I put all the **** out of my mind and just did my damn job.
> 
> The more I read this thread the worse I feel for both OP and his wife. So many strong opinions about a time in their life that most of can't even imagine living through ourselves. Her explanation for why she sought out another man is very believable even if some people here can't accept it. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the OP can believe it and forgive. I'm assuming his wife has forgiven him for all the drinking...for being so zoned out from her out he admits he wouldn't have noticed if she died until the body started to smell. That's some pretty heavy abandonment in a time of crisis. If she could find her way to forgive that then the OP should at least try to show her the same consideration now.


Nevermind. If I could have deleted that post I would have. It was a knee jerk reaction to your opinion. This was already addressed later in the thread and I was beating a zombie horse.

At work last week, we did one of those workshops based around a personality test we all took a few weeks ago. The instructor said people in my category don't like being taken advantage of. That explained a lot. So everything I read in this forum, runs through that filter. I can't help it. She also said the majority of people you will encounter are people who want to help others to their own detriment. I'm not saying that's you.


----------



## Marc878

samyeagar said:


> I can see and understand the cheating as a response to the extreme circumstances. Does not mean I agree with it, but I do understand it. Accepting that explanation, and if it were actually the truth, one would think that of any type of affair to come clean about right away, this would be it.
> 
> *That said, I think the advice and decision to try and hide it was an egregious and unforgivable miscalculation and lapse in judgement.*


Yes, they assume no one will ever find out but I've seen these scenarios play out really bad on more than one occasion. It just causes a more unusual amount of distrust.

The truth may hurt upfront but it's better than discovery later on. A pretty damn stupid decision but typical of therapists it seems.


----------



## Cletus

BluesPower said:


> You are wrong about this in everyway. I work around this all the time.


It's not ME who you are arguing with. It's the entirety of the scientific community. If what you say is true, it could be demonstrated under properly controlled circumstances, evaluated, and verified. Your opinion and my opinion would not matter, as they should not. 

I suggest we just dispense with all of the bad science entirely and threaten to throw them in the river to see if they float. If it was good enough for witches, it's good enough here. 

Yeah, I get a real bug up my backside when pseudoscience comes into the equation. And no, it has nothing to do with infidelity. I'll get off the threadjack now, but I'll be sure to bring it up in the future until the scientific community says otherwise.


----------



## notmyjamie

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> :bsflag:
> 
> The greater the hurt, the greater the tragedy, the greater the pain, the more you should turn _toward _your spouse, not away. Being there for each other in the hard times is one of the bedrock elements of marriage. If you're not each other's first and only in sickness and in health, in good times and bad, etc. then why the hell get married in the first place?
> 
> I agree 100%...he has already admitted that HE TURNED AWAY FROM HER TOO!!!!!!!!!!! Not knowing if your wife has died until her rotting corpse smells up your apartment is a pretty good indication that he, too, turned away from his spouse. Jesus.
> 
> And oh, btw, do you not think the father was also grieving, miserable, and in need of comfort?
> 
> I think he was grieving, miserable and that instead of turning to his wife at this time for comfort he turned to alcohol. And just like I think her sin has mitigating circumstances, I think his does as well. I'm not condoning either of their behavior, but I do understand where it came from is all I'm saying.
> 
> The pain and tragedy of the horrific loss of child is probably the worst thing any parent can ever go through... and being the most horrific of all possibilities that only reinforces even more that turning TO your spouse is the only real path here. (exception being that if the spouse was in some way actually responsible for the death of the child, but that doesn't appear to be the case here)
> 
> Agreed. Which is why I think it's so tragic that she turned outside the marriage and he turned to alcohol. I have no idea which happened first and neither to you. For all you know, her affair didn't start until well after she realized the smell of her dead body was the only thing that would make him remember she existed. They both turned away from each other and yet she is being vilified by total strangers here who "just know" who she is and what she's done based on a few posts by her husband, who is posting from a standpoint of great emotional pain and therefore is only giving us his side of the story.
> 
> 
> I get the feeling, and I might be wrong, but I'm thinking this was a pregnancy loss late in pregnancy or a preterm delivery where the babies did not survive. And I can tell you from a professional standpoint that if that's true, OP's wife was probably drowning in grief and misplaced guilt. When a woman loses a pregnancy there is tremendous guilt involved whether it's warranted or not. And many many husbands blame the wife as well, whether she deserves it or not. I have years of experience caring for patients dealing with this type of loss. So one and or both of them might have felt she was responsible which for it which could explain not comforting each other until they realized it was nature's fault and no one else's.
> 
> 
> 
> And even if you can rationalize the adultery at such a time in the first place, the behavior since then clearly indicates a fundamental lack of character rather than a temporary, grief-driven incident of bad behavior (but of course we already knew that since we already knew that the affair lasted 7 months... minimum; knowing how cheaters trickle truth, in all likelihood it's even longer).
> 
> 
> If you think the grief and mental anguish from losing a child is over in 7 months you are sadly mistaken.
> 
> Again, I am not saying there isn't more to the story. I'm not even saying she's not lying. I'm saying her story is 100% plausible based on what I know as a professional who works with grieving parents. And that is not BS. He needs more information before he makes any decisions about the future. He was forgiven for his bad choices, should he give her the courtesy of at trying to understand her side of things?


----------



## Jus260

@idkaname 

How long were you drinking after the death of your daughters? Would it have seemed that strange to you if she switched jobs during that time? A change in employers after a tragedy like that wouldn't seem all that bizarre to me even if it was 7 months later. Of she immediately started working in a grocery store after she quit the job, I might wonder what's going on but cheating probably wouldn't be at the top of that list.


----------



## notmyjamie

Jus260 said:


> At work last week, we did one of those workshops based around a personality test we all took a few weeks ago. The instructor said people in my category don't like being taken advantage of. That explained a lot. So everything I read in this forum, runs through that filter. I can't help it. She also said the majority of people you will encounter are people who want to help others to their own detriment. I'm not saying that's you.


I do like to help others and have done it to my own detriment on occasion. Going into work at 3am on my day off because I know it's crazy busy comes to mind. ZZZZzzz.

In this case, trying to help the OP see things from a gentler and less hurtful viewpoint only costs me a few minutes of my time. Although the more people post that I must be an idiot for my viewpoint the more my blood pressure is rising. LOL


----------



## samyeagar

Although she had no way of knowing for sure this would happen, it was a risk she chose to take, her choice to try and hide this forever has succeeded in not only cutting with the affair, but no doubt has also torn wide open the old wounds of losing the children.


----------



## BluesPower

Cletus said:


> It's not ME who you are arguing with. It's the entirety of the scientific community. If what you say is true, it could be demonstrated under properly controlled circumstances, evaluated, and verified. Your opinion and my opinion would not matter, as they should not.
> 
> I suggest we just dispense with all of the bad science entirely and threaten to throw them in the river to see if they float. If it was good enough for witches, it's good enough here.
> 
> Yeah, I get a real bug up my backside when pseudoscience comes into the equation. And no, it has nothing to do with infidelity. I'll get off the threadjack now, but I'll be sure to bring it up in the future until the scientific community says otherwise.


I know how you feel, and I know you really think you are right, OK. 

Thanks, for the info...


----------



## idkaname

My daughters were 1 and 3 when they passed away. Their deaths were 6 weeks apart and unrelated to each other. Neither of us were at blame for their passing. We blamed each other because grief needed answers and reason. 

I started drinking days after our first daughter passed away. If my wife's timeline is truthful it was 3 months of drinking before she started her affair. I was drinking for 12 months. Haven't touched it since.

I likely wouldn't have thought twice about her taking a new job at the time. It was the job placement she wanted but at the time I doubt I would have thought anything of it. 

I really do not like talking about any of that.


----------



## Marc878

You discuss only what you feel you need. That's totally up to you.

Sorry for what you went through and are going through


----------



## farsidejunky

Look, brother. 

As I am suggesting these things about your wife, I'm not simultaneously excusing your behavior, either.

Does she understand how far into the bottle you went during this time? 

Are there things that happened during that time that you did not disclose to her?

It would be helpful to go ahead and clear the air on any skeletons you may have.

That said, she is under no obligation to supply you with the truth. Conversely, you are under no obligation to keep her as your wife.

The above paragraph should be your entire approach in this.

No truth=no marriage.

You're going to have to be firm. You're going to have to be an *******. You are likely going to find more... and it's going to hurt like hell.

I'm sorry you're here, brother.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

Please don't ever compare being depressed and drinking to going on a 7 month **** fest.

There is no comparison.

Mrs. C and I went through some pretty serious trauma a few years ago and I started drinking heavily and became depressed. She did not start drinking but was equally distressed.

If she started fing her goddamned co-worker or anyone else for that matter during that time, we would be finished.

That is pure bull ****.

OP's wife could have been unstable but she didn't consider him ever. She only considered herself and never cared enough for him to confess and even had him texting the ass hole who f'd her for months while he suffered the same anguish she was.

She is vile and dark to her core to allow this to take place. She is truly 100% selfish and self centered.

9 years......


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> *My daughters were 1 and 3 when they passed away. Their deaths were 6 weeks apart and unrelated to each other*. Neither of us were at blame for their passing. We blamed each other because grief needed answers and reason.
> 
> *I started drinking days after our first daughter passed away. If my wife's timeline is truthful it was 3 months of drinking before she started her affair*. I was drinking for 12 months. Haven't touched it since.
> 
> I likely wouldn't have thought twice about her taking a new job at the time. It was the job placement she wanted but at the time I doubt I would have thought anything of it.
> 
> I really do not like talking about any of that.


1st I have to say that I'm really sorry about your lost.

I thought this was a case of a babies that were months old that died of some complication from the birth not that they were 1 & 3 years old and that 
they died over a month apart. That makes it sicker that 6 weeks after losing the 2nd child she became some coworkers sex toy.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

No, I'm not claiming the grief of loss of child is/should be over in 7 months.

But her bad behavior has now extended a full nine years. Big difference there.


----------



## notmyjamie

ConanHub said:


> Please don't ever compare being depressed and drinking to going on a 7 month **** fest.
> 
> There is no comparison.
> 
> Mrs. C and I went through some pretty serious trauma a few years ago and I started drinking heavily and became depressed. She did not start drinking but was equally distressed.
> 
> If she started fing her goddamned co-worker or anyone else for that matter during that time, we would be finished.
> 
> That is pure bull ****.
> 
> OP's wife could have been unstable but she didn't consider him ever. She only considered herself and never cared enough for him to confess and even had him texting the ass hole who f'd her for months while he suffered the same anguish she was.
> 
> She is vile and dark to her core to allow this to take place. She is truly 100% selfish and self centered.
> 
> 9 years......


And with this, I’m done. It’s clear to me you aren’t getting what I am obviously having trouble expressing. 


OP I wish you the best.


----------



## Cletus

ConanHub said:


> Please don't ever compare being depressed and drinking to going on a 7 month **** fest.
> 
> There is no comparison.
> 
> Mrs. C and I went through some pretty serious trauma a few years ago and I started drinking heavily and became depressed. She did not start drinking but was equally distressed.
> 
> If she started fing her goddamned co-worker or anyone else for that matter during that time, we would be finished.


I've seen both. Neither are pretty. I watched my brother's substance abuse destroy his marriage.

Saying that there's no comparison between infidelity and substance abuse trivializes one, I think. They're both ****ty.

I bet you're glad that your wife found the grace to forgive you.


----------



## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> And with this, I’m done. It’s clear to me you aren’t getting what I am obviously having trouble expressing.
> 
> 
> OP I wish you the best.


I never will get what you are trying to advocate.

I've dealt first hand in many cases of infidelity and your comparisons are not even relevant to this situation if you believe forgiving someone for diving in a bottle is even in the same universe as ****ing a coworker, never confessing, never going no contact with the piece of **** and even letting her husband text the dirty mother ****er for 9 goddamned years after she got all better.

She has shown herself to be ultimately selfish with zero concern for her husband in all of her betrayals. She has only considered herself.


----------



## Cletus

ConanHub said:


> I never will get what you are trying to advocate.
> 
> I've dealt first hand in many cases of infidelity and your comparisons are not even relevant to this situation if you believe forgiving someone for diving in a bottle is even in the same universe as ****ing a coworker, never confessing, never going no contact with the piece of **** and even letting her husband text the dirty mother ****er for 9 goddamned years after she got all better.
> 
> She has shown herself to be ultimately selfish with zero concern for her husband in all of her betrayals. She has only considered herself.


That's your position, that's OK.

I would rather discover that my wife had a one-off affair than watch her become an alcoholic. Seriously.


----------



## ConanHub

Cletus said:


> I've seen both. Neither are pretty. I watched my brother's substance abuse destroy his marriage.
> 
> Saying that there's no comparison between infidelity and substance abuse trivializes one, I think. They're both ****ty.
> 
> I bet you're glad that your wife found the grace to forgive you.


You obviously can't tell the difference between heavy drinking for several months and ****ing your coworker and then handing your phone to your spouse to text your **** buddy for years all while you stay in daily contact with your **** buddy.

You might equate the two and you would be fairly rare if you really can detect no differences here.

I'm not going to explain them to you because if you can't grasp the enormous level of betrayal OP's wife inflicted on him for years as opposed to his drinking for a year then our thoughts are too alien to each other to have a coherent conversation.


----------



## ConanHub

Cletus said:


> That's your position, that's OK.
> 
> I would rather discover that my wife had a one-off affair than watch her become an alcoholic. Seriously.


OP didn't become an alcoholic. She didn't have a one off.

She kept at it for over half a year if she isn't minimizing and kept working with the ******* and even had her betrayed husband helping her text him and interact with him for 9 years and would have continued forever if she wasn't caught.


----------



## Cletus

ConanHub said:


> You obviously can't tell the difference between heavy drinking for several months and ****ing your coworker and then handing your phone to your spouse to text your **** buddy for years all while you stay in daily contact with your **** buddy.
> 
> You might equate the two and you would be fairly rare if you really can detect no differences here.
> 
> I'm not going to explain them to you because if you can't grasp the enormous level of betrayal OP's wife inflicted on him for years as opposed to his drinking for a year then our thoughts are too alien to each other to have a coherent conversation.


You think putting your spouse through the betrayal of wondering for a year whether or not they are now married to a full-on alcoholic isn't as traumatic as an affair.

I disagree.

You can make that statement because you're speaking from the other side - you got out. Watch someone do it for a decade and get back to me. Watch your sister-in-law have to take her husband to the hospital covered in his own piss for alcohol poisoning. Twice. Going on three-day benders coked up and wrecking his car. I could go on...

Congratulations - you didn't go down that road. Good for you and for your wife. At the start of the year, did you look her in the eye and say "Hang tight, baby - be back in a year?"

I got no beef with you, Conan. Your personality makes the one far worse than the other. I'm not asking for you to agree with me. Can you allow for others to see it differently from their personal circumstances? 

I'll say it again - I would rather have a wife who cheated once than live with an alcoholic. Or even someone who gave me enough pause to think they were quickly becoming one.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

I agree with Conan, there are levels of sin. Often people resort to alcohol in times of grief. I know I have but never became an alcoholic as after the ****storm passed I can take or leave it. Opening your legs to strangers is a whole nother level of ***upedness. Infidelity is just inexcusable.


----------



## notmyjamie

idkaname said:


> My daughters were 1 and 3 when they passed away. Their deaths were 6 weeks apart and unrelated to each other. Neither of us were at blame for their passing. We blamed each other because grief needed answers and reason.
> 
> I started drinking days after our first daughter passed away. If my wife's timeline is truthful it was 3 months of drinking before she started her affair. I was drinking for 12 months. Haven't touched it since.
> 
> I likely wouldn't have thought twice about her taking a new job at the time. It was the job placement she wanted but at the time I doubt I would have thought anything of it.
> 
> I really do not like talking about any of that.


I hadn't seen this post before my last post. I can't even imagine how incredibly painful that must have been for you and your wife. I am deeply sorry. I do sincerely wish you both the best, no matter how you decide to proceed.


----------



## sokillme

Here is the difference. You can love your spouse with all your heart and still be terribly depressed and drink, be sullen and distant. But I would argue you can't love your spouse and cheat with someone else no matter how depressed you are. One requires being disloyal and choosing to abandon them and your marriage. One requires lying to them and stealing time from them. Stealing yourself whom you pledged and gave to them. One requires abusing them. 

People who have affairs don't truly love their partners no matter what they say. Cheating is the opposite of love, it's loving oneself. Selfishness and love are diametrically opposite things. 

There really is no comparison, I am not sure how anyone could try.

Besides he turned to drink he didn't become an alcoholic.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> I've seen both. Neither are pretty. I watched my brother's substance abuse destroy his marriage.
> 
> Saying that there's no comparison between infidelity and substance abuse trivializes one, I think. They're both ****ty.
> 
> I bet you're glad that your wife found the grace to forgive you.


She didn't forgive him she ****ed a coworker. 

Wow just wow.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Cletus said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously can't tell the difference between heavy drinking for several months and ****ing your coworker and then handing your phone to your spouse to text your **** buddy for years all while you stay in daily contact with your **** buddy.
> 
> You might equate the two and you would be fairly rare if you really can detect no differences here.
> 
> I'm not going to explain them to you because if you can't grasp the enormous level of betrayal OP's wife inflicted on him for years as opposed to his drinking for a year then our thoughts are too alien to each other to have a coherent conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> You think putting your spouse through the betrayal of wondering for a year whether or not they are now married to a full-on alcoholic isn't as traumatic as an affair.
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> You can make that statement because you're speaking from the other side - you got out. Watch someone do it for a decade and get back to me. Watch your sister-in-law have to take her husband to the hospital covered in his own piss for alcohol poisoning. Twice. Going on three-day benders coked up and wrecking his car. I could go on...
> 
> Congratulations - you didn't go down that road. Good for you and for your wife. At the start of the year, did you look her in the eye and say "Hang tight, baby - be back in a year?"
> 
> I got no beef with you, Conan. Your personality makes the one far worse than the other. I'm not asking for you to agree with me. Can you allow for others to see it differently from their personal circumstances?
> 
> I'll say it again - I would rather have a wife who cheated once than live with an alcoholic. Or even someone who gave me enough pause to think they were quickly becoming one.
Click to expand...

You would rather your wife engage in a year long affair than have a year long period of needing a couple drinks a night? One I can certainly recover from IF it stopped, the other no fking way.


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> She didn't forgive him she ****ed a coworker.
> 
> Wow just wow.


I think you're confused here.

Conan's wife didn't do any such thing.


----------



## Cletus

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You would rather your wife engage in a year long affair than have a year long period of needing a couple drinks a night? One I can certainly recover from IF it stopped, the other no fking way.


Since you're not going to accept any answer I give as legitimate (and a couple of drinks a night is hardly heavy drinking), I decline. 

Have it your way. Where do I sign to agree to everything?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Cletus said:


> You think putting your spouse through the betrayal of wondering for a year whether or not they are now married to a full-on alcoholic isn't as traumatic as an affair.
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> You can make that statement because you're speaking from the other side - you got out. Watch someone do it for a decade and get back to me. Watch your sister-in-law have to take her husband to the hospital covered in his own piss for alcohol poisoning. Twice. Going on three-day benders coked up and wrecking his car. I could go on...
> 
> Congratulations - you didn't go down that road. Good for you and for your wife. At the start of the year, did you look her in the eye and say "Hang tight, baby - be back in a year?"
> 
> I got no beef with you, Conan. Your personality makes the one far worse than the other. I'm not asking for you to agree with me. Can you allow for others to see it differently from their personal circumstances?
> 
> I'll say it again - I would rather have a wife who cheated once than live with an alcoholic. Or even someone who gave me enough pause to think they were quickly becoming one.


I grew up with an alcoholic parent and saw the very worst the condition has to offer. I was often directly and inescapably on the receiving end of that evil. 

Even I wouldn't compare living with a drinker with living with a lying, deceitful cheater.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Cletus said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You would rather your wife engage in a year long affair than have a year long period of needing a couple drinks a night? One I can certainly recover from IF it stopped, the other no fking way.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're not going to accept any answer I give as legitimate (and a couple of drinks a night is hardly heavy drinking), I decline.
> 
> Have it your way. Where do I sign to agree to everything?
Click to expand...

Depends what your drinking. Fk a beer if you can have straight whiskey. Right?


----------



## idkaname

I have never cheated on my wife. Not in the slightest. 

I wanted to shut the world out and be left alone. My wife wanted to go to me for comfort. I had not one iota to give. I pushed her away and blamed her for us losing our children. I don't remember very much of that year. I wasn't there when our second daughter was dying because I couldn't handle anymore. I was drunk for both of the funerals and there was a scene. My wife frequently woke up to me passed out in my own vomit then decided if she'd take me to the hospital or leave me there for the day and check every once in a while to see if I was breathing. 

She forgave me for checking out for a year. Is that suppose to be comparable to an affair? We went through two years of marriage counselling. My portion of our problems were laid out but she left out a big one of hers.


----------



## Cletus

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I grew up with an alcoholic parent and saw the very worst the condition has to offer. I was often directly and inescapably on the receiving end of that evil.
> 
> Even I wouldn't compare living with a drinker with living with a lying, deceitful cheater.


It is not the SAME.

It is just as DAMAGING. 

I will add just one example, then I'm out of this topic.

In addition to all of the bad behavior that surrounds having/hiding an affair, which is more-or-less equivalent for the user, the spouse of the substance abuser has the added bonus of wondering if her spouse is even alive every time he's an hour late coming home.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> I have never cheated on my wife. Not in the slightest.
> 
> I wanted to shut the world out and be left alone. My wife wanted to go to me for comfort. I had not one iota to give. I pushed her away and blamed her for us losing our children. I don't remember very much of that year. I wasn't there when our second daughter was dying because I couldn't handle anymore. I was drunk for both of the funerals and there was a scene. My wife frequently woke up to me passed out in my own vomit then decided if she'd take me to the hospital or leave me there for the day and check every once in a while to see if I was breathing.
> 
> She forgave me for checking out for a year. Is that suppose to be comparable to an affair? *We went through two years of marriage counselling. My portion of our problems were laid out but she left out a big one of hers*.


That is shady as f-k. Can she stay with some friends or family for awhile?


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I have never cheated on my wife. Not in the slightest.
> 
> I wanted to shut the world out and be left alone. My wife wanted to go to me for comfort. I had not one iota to give. I pushed her away and blamed her for us losing our children. I don't remember very much of that year. I wasn't there when our second daughter was dying because I couldn't handle anymore. I was drunk for both of the funerals and there was a scene. My wife frequently woke up to me passed out in my own vomit then decided if she'd take me to the hospital or leave me there for the day and check every once in a while to see if I was breathing.
> 
> She forgave me for checking out for a year. Is that suppose to be comparable to an affair? We went through two years of marriage counselling. My portion of our problems were laid out but she left out a big one of hers.


Maybe if she told you then.

Besides that it would frankly, be stupid to assume this was a 6 month affair. Again she was with this dude every single work day for 9 years since. Where is the disgust does she have any feelings for you or the marriage at all? How as she able to lie her way through the marriage counseling? How was she able to allow him to talk to you and not feel terrible? Does she have any respect for you or herself and you as her husband? They were intimate enough to take pictures that she had on HER phone. This is who your wife is. See this for what this is. Yes people make terrible mistakes but when they are truly sorry they change, they see their mistake for how truly disgusting they are. Your wife seems to have no shame, just pity for herself. Which makes me think this is an ongoing thing and she really hasn't ever really come to terms with what she has been doing. At this point you have no idea what happened. You are going to have a much better idea if your friend gets info from the phone.


----------



## idkaname

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> That is shady as f-k. Can she stay with some friends or family for awhile?


She is staying with her parents for a while. She went there today.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> It is not the SAME.
> 
> It is just as DAMAGING.
> 
> I will add just one example, then I'm out of this topic.
> 
> In addition to all of the bad behavior that surrounds having/hiding an affair, which is more-or-less equivalent for the user, the spouse of the substance abuser has the added bonus of wondering if her spouse is even alive every time he's an hour late coming home.


You are not braking vows when you drink. Lots of people believe alcoholism is a sickness. Infidelity is not it's a choice. 

Sorry I don't see it.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She is staying with her parents for a while. She went there today.


Did she tell them? What did they say?


----------



## notmyjamie

ConanHub said:


> I never will get what you are trying to advocate.
> 
> I've dealt first hand in many cases of infidelity and your comparisons are not even relevant to this situation if you believe forgiving someone for diving in a bottle is even in the same universe as ****ing a coworker, never confessing, never going no contact with the piece of **** and even letting her husband text the dirty mother ****er for 9 goddamned years after she got all better.
> 
> She has shown herself to be ultimately selfish with zero concern for her husband in all of her betrayals. She has only considered herself.


Mr C. I have always enjoyed your posts and so I want to clear things up if I can. I'm going to comment once more because I can't seem to help myself. I am not trying to advocate for anything other than OP to try to remain calm and assess the situation with a clear head remembering that there are mitigating circumstances. That's it. Maybe in the end he'll choose to end his marriage and maybe he won't. But I'd hate for him to make a quick, very emotional decision that he later regrets. If you think I'm saying he should definitely forgive her immediately, I'm not. I'm not even saying he should stay with her. But they do have children together so it would be nice if he could at least understand where it was coming from...the original affair from extreme grief and the hiding it from the guilt and bad advice from a therapist. I agree, it was a heinous thing for her to do and I'd have an easier time forgiving the former than the latter if I were standing in OP's shoes.

And to be clear, I don't think turning to alcohol and abandoning your wife emotionally should be compared to what she's done. I'm just saying, he did something that needed forgiving and she's done something that needs forgiving. And yes, I agree that her's is much worse and it's a huge betrayal but I think he should consider this when assessing the entire situation. If he can't get past it than he can't. It's perfectly understandable. 

Having now heard the details of the grief this couple was facing, I am amazed they are still together at all. I really can't imagine what that must have been like. My mind never even went to that scenario because it's just too awful to comprehend. I work with many patients who are grieving and they do some very self destructive stuff. I think this couple is no different unfortunately. I really wish she had told him of it at the time but I suspect that would have ended them and she knew it. Fear also makes us do horrible things sometimes.

If you still think I'm an awful person for having compassion for both of them I guess I can't do anything about that. I'm normally all about dumping all over a cheater but this is a very different type of situation than a typical cheating spouse and deserves more thought into how to deal with it. I hope that conveys what I'm trying to say better. If not, I give up. LOL


----------



## Clay2013

I don't think you really need to make any kind of a decision right now as far as the marriage is concerned. I do think that if I was in your shoes she wouldn't get a choice in the polygraph. Its not important that she believe in it. Its information for you not her. I would tell her in order for this marriage to move forward she needs to write a complete timeline. As for the other guy. I wouldn't call him. I would call his wife. I would share the phone with her and any other information you find. Any man that can do that knowing she was married and what she was going through at that time doesn't have a ounce of morals and she would be wise to protect herself and her children from him. 

As far as her working with him that would be done today regardless of the cost. If it financially hurt your family then she better go out and get two new jobs to cover the loss. If she is unwilling to do anything of that or even raises any kind of attitude I would file and close that door for good.


----------



## BluesPower

idkaname said:


> I have never cheated on my wife. Not in the slightest.
> 
> I wanted to shut the world out and be left alone. My wife wanted to go to me for comfort. I had not one iota to give. I pushed her away and blamed her for us losing our children. I don't remember very much of that year. I wasn't there when our second daughter was dying because I couldn't handle anymore. I was drunk for both of the funerals and there was a scene. My wife frequently woke up to me passed out in my own vomit then decided if she'd take me to the hospital or leave me there for the day and check every once in a while to see if I was breathing.
> 
> She forgave me for checking out for a year. Is that suppose to be comparable to an affair? We went through two years of marriage counselling. My portion of our problems were laid out but she left out a big one of hers.


Brother, please so not listen to anyone that makes that comparison. The two are not in any way comparable. 

Listen, take a deep breath, find out what you need to find out, DNA the kids, and then make a decision. 

What she did is horrible at a level almost unheard of, so you take your time. Get your head together, and move forward. 

Maybe she is telling the truth, not likely, but maybe she is. 

Stay strong and move forward...


----------



## Cletus

sokillme said:


> You are not braking vows when you drink. Lots of people believe alcoholism is a sickness. Infidelity is not it's a choice.
> 
> Sorry I don't see it.


See, you're not required to. I'm explaining my view, not yours. 

Watching someone commit slow suicide before your eyes vs. breaking a vow (and repenting - that part is important) is worse for me. From conversations with my sister-in-law, she would agree. 

You are entitled to that position. Still not sure why I am not entitled to mine. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I am not unique among survivors of alcoholic relationships.


----------



## farsidejunky

Speaking as a moderator:

Enough with the comparisons. 

It is a thread jack.

If you would like to debate such, start a new thread.

Any further infractions will result in a temporary ban.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> Did she tell them? What did they say?


She told them that she had an affair for 6 or 7 months. That it ended but it was with someone she works with and I found out because I saw an old intimate picture. She said she needs to give me space right now. 

Her mom asked if she was okay and said they'd talk about it when she got there.


----------



## mickybill

Not to change topic but since they have continued to work together there is a good chance that over 9 years something else happened.
In the 10 or so serious relationships I've had, probably seven boomeranged back either for a ONS months later or or longer. In one case we dated before marrying others then got together again after we both divorced. The only one I would never **** was my cheater XWW

I wonder if your WW and the OM ever had an off and on FWB relationship. That might be why she fears the poly. But like you say their stories may match 100% now.

I am saddened about what you and your wife went through with the death of your two kids and the resulting collateral damage.
There was a thread on the SI about a woman who hid a long term affair and was a great wife for ten years until the H found her secret flash drive. She ended up taking her own life, possibly when he could not forgive. It may be good to enlist her parents as watchdogs for changes in her mood. With the baby coming and her secrets exposed she could be a mess.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She told them that she had an affair for 6 or 7 months. That it ended but it was with someone she works with and I found out because I saw an old intimate picture. She said she needs to give me space right now.
> 
> Her mom asked if she was okay and said they'd talk about it when she got there.


Did you keep her phone?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is shady as f-k. Can she stay with some friends or family for awhile?
> 
> 
> 
> She is staying with her parents for a while. She went there today.
Click to expand...

Good. Keep her at arms distance for awhile. I would only speak to her as it regards your kids. Also, stay active, lift weights until muscle failure, whatever to get your mind off of it. Try and stay away from the drink.


----------



## sokillme

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Good. Keep her at arms distance for awhile. I would only speak to her as it regards your kids. Also, stay active, lift weights until muscle failure, whatever to get your mind off of it. Try and stay away from the drink.


Yes DON'T DRINK! Like the posters on here that will be the first excuse she runs to. Don't give her the ammunition, be better then that.


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> I have never cheated on my wife. Not in the slightest.
> 
> I wanted to shut the world out and be left alone. My wife wanted to go to me for comfort. I had not one iota to give. I pushed her away and blamed her for us losing our children. I don't remember very much of that year. I wasn't there when our second daughter was dying because I couldn't handle anymore. I was drunk for both of the funerals and there was a scene. My wife frequently woke up to me passed out in my own vomit then decided if she'd take me to the hospital or leave me there for the day and check every once in a while to see if I was breathing.
> 
> She forgave me for checking out for a year. *Is that suppose to be comparable to an affair? We went through two years of marriage counselling. My portion of our problems were laid out but she left out a big one of hers.*


Absolutely not comparable. You accounted for what you did. All those sessions with counselor talking about your issues, while ignoring her betrayal. Then continuing to be work with the guy for 9 years? 

That is some F'd shi.. Now you have to wonder, how long did their affair really last. Did he father your kids? I really hope that it turns out that it was a 7 month sex only affair but to me, that doesn't pass the smell test. 

How do you come down from that type of intimacy and then just be friends? Knowing how us men are, are you supposed to believe he just stopped pursuing her. He can look at your wife knowing he's had her and not once in 9 years started again? Same for her. That's to much for me to believe, which is why a poly should be a MUST but the fact that she is not wanting to, tells me there's more to this story.

Let your PI retrieve the info from her old devices and DNA the kids.

BTW: did you talk to her father? Tell them the WHOLE truth? If so, what did they tell you?


----------



## sokillme

jsmart said:


> Absolutely not comparable. You accounted for what you did. All those sessions with counselor talking about your issues, while ignoring her betrayal. Then continuing to be work with the guy for 9 years?
> 
> That is some F'd shi.. Now you have to wonder, how long did their affair really last. Did he father your kids? I really hope that it turns out that it was a 7 month sex only affair but to me, that doesn't pass the smell test.
> 
> How do you come down from that type of intimacy and then just be friends? Knowing how us men are, are you supposed to believe he just stopped pursuing her. He can look at your wife knowing he's had her and not once in 9 years started again? Same for her. That's to much for me to believe, which is why a poly should be a MUST but the fact that she is not wanting to, tells me there's more to this story.
> 
> Let your PI retrieve the info from her old devices and DNA the kids.
> 
> BTW: did you talk to her father? Tell them the WHOLE truth? If so, what did they tell you?


Agreed talk to her father and tell HIM the whole story.


----------



## BigToe

sokillme said:


> And they call us harsh. :banghead:


Fair, is fair.


----------



## BigToe

BluesPower said:


> Yes actually, she did... That is what you do when you **** someone other than your spouse.


No. She made a mistake. No worse than the mistakes he made. But she was there for him when he was ready to come back. HIS own words; she forgave him.


----------



## BluesPower

jsmart said:


> Absolutely not comparable. You accounted for what you did. All those sessions with counselor talking about your issues, while ignoring her betrayal. Then continuing to be work with the guy for 9 years?
> 
> That is some F'd shi.. Now you have to wonder, how long did their affair really last. Did he father your kids? I really hope that it turns out that it was a 7 month sex only affair but to me, that doesn't pass the smell test.
> 
> How do you come down from that type of intimacy and then just be friends? Knowing how us men are, are you supposed to believe he just stopped pursuing her. He can look at your wife knowing he's had her and not once in 9 years started again? Same for her. That's to much for me to believe, which is why a poly should be a MUST but the fact that she is not wanting to, tells me there's more to this story.
> 
> Let your PI retrieve the info from her old devices and DNA the kids.
> 
> BTW: did you talk to her father? Tell them the WHOLE truth? If so, what did they tell you?


Amen brother... 

If there is not WAY, WAY, WAY more to this story I will eat my hat... 

I mean you have a 7 month hot affair, and you don't go back for seconds after a month or two.

Man, I have a girl that I broke up with 3 freaking years ago that still tries to get with me. Yeah, I am not buying that...


----------



## sokillme

BigToe said:


> Fair, is fair.


Seriously dude? Every one of the threads you started is political an now today you decide to come on here and blame the victim?


----------



## BigToe

sokillme said:


> Agreed talk to her father and tell HIM the whole story.


What exactly do you think that's going to do? You think he's going to spank her or something and send her to her room? Unlike her husband, her parents are going to recognize she made a mistake, see that she is remorseful, and support her.


----------



## Cletus

So, OP - 

For the sake of argument, let's assume that you have something approximating the truth of the matter. Maybe you do, maybe you don't.

You're both now damaged goods, perhaps one more than the other. Is this something you can wrap your head around forgiving, or not? I bet somewhere in the back of your head, long ago before this was real, you thought to yourself about what you would do if your spouse ever cheated on you. If so, do you remember that time? 

You made vows to each other forsaking all others, for better and for worse. You've seen worse. Some would say the contract is already broken. Maybe it is. Maybe it doesn't have to be. That depends on her behavior and your grace. 

I would be less interested in the past than I was in the future. What did your wife learn about herself? Can she articulate well why she cheated? Does she fully understand, now from experience rather than theory, why it was wrong? Has anything in her fundamentally changed, or will she retreat to the same solace the next time your marriage hits a rough spot? What better coping mechanism will she use? What about you? What assurances, as much as you can believe them, do you have on this not happening again? 

You won't have the answers to these questions, probably for a very long time. But at least consider them. A spouse who can pick us up from our worst, give us a "Moonstruck" slap across the face, and still stick with us is a great gift. But don't be a sucker. Trust your gut.


----------



## sokillme

Cletus said:


> You're both now damaged goods, perhaps one more than the other. Is this something you can wrap your head around forgiving, or not?


You should eventually forgive her. The question I think you should be asking when you have more of the truth and the time is right is what will your life be like living with her moving forward after all this. 

And your not damaged goods.


----------



## Lostinthought61

at the end of the day her parents will stand by her...regardless of her transgression, yes that means they will be hypocrites but blood is after all thicker than water.


----------



## BruceBanner

Marc878 said:


> I would assume the new baby is yours for the time being.
> 
> Under the circumstances you can DNA later.
> 
> Good luck man


No he should DNA as soon as possible. If even one of the children comes out not as his then he won't even have to do a polygraph anymore.


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## mickybill

I am not going to re-hash a thread from another site, I brought it up because if his wife goes off the deep end because her secret is out and her marriage is in jeopardy from something from 9 years ago that she thought was rugawept along with a pregnancy and moving out of the family house away from her kids, maybe PPD and betrayed husband she may do something crazy.
I am not making any excuses just saying be on the lookout


----------



## Deejo

@idkaname,

So I see that a lot of our contributors have 'thoughts' about your wife and her behavior.

You are the one thats here.

You have a lot going on.

My input for the moment is pretty straightforward. 

Focus on you. Focus on the well-being of the children you do have. My heart broke in reading about the children you no longer have. Many marriages involving the loss of a child don't survive at all. Yours did.

You will have ultimately have to decide if you can live with the truth you know.

My recommendation is that you scratch the polygraph. People insist on it all of the time ... to what end I'm not really sure. When I knew my ex-wife was having an affair, I didn't need all of the gory details, I just presumed the worst about all of it. All of the things you may be wondering? Just presume she did them. And with that awareness, take your time, and decide if you think your marriage can heal, help your children flourish, and provide you with some semblance of the life you want, with the kind of partner you want.

And if you ultimately decide that it can't? 

You end it. 

If you make a different choice, do so under terms that you BOTH want to build something better and healthy, rather than something with a rotten foundation.

The math on these circumstances is incredibly simple. The execution of it, is something altogether different.

Take care of yourself.

Are you still struggling with depression? Under these circumstances I'd suggest you stay in touch with your doctor, and a therapist.

There is a lot to sort out. And there is no timeline in which you need to do so. Think about what you know. Think about what you want. Think about what your boundaries are and what you are willing to accept and forgive, versus what you can't accept and forgive.

Very often, folks here want to know what is going on. Please remember with all of this, you owe nothing to anyone, but yourself and your kids. Be well.


----------



## seadoug105

idkaname said:


> My wife looked for solace in the arms of another man. My answers were at the bottom of a bottle. We both previously struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was hospitalized for a few days. I was too scared an attempt would fail otherwise I probably would have done it. We blamed each other for the loss of our *children* and pushed each other away. Marriage and private counselling are no stranger to us. I ask myself if this is harder to overcome than what we have already conquered. Most couples who lose *children* do not stay together.
> 
> I want to believe what she tells me and I can't. Even if I do trust her she is still a cheater who cheats at the worst possible time. Now the secret is out and it's bad timing. She's been told to lower her stress before she goes into labour early. My *son's* movements are barely passing the tests the hospital does. She has to go every other day for several hours. I don't know if it's possible to reduce stress right now.
> 
> My wife has agreed to stay with her parents until she goes into labour. She doesn't go fast so there is no worry about missing the birth. There is plenty of warning. Her previous 4 labours have been the exact same. Day 1: 4 minutes apart. Day 2: 3 minutes apart. Day 3: 2 minutes apart. Day 4: 1 minute apart. Day 5: 30 seconds apart, water breaks and immediately pushing for 2 or 3 hours. It'll be 100 hours of hell. What do doctors do to speed it up? None of the previous labours have been sped up. She gets told to go home because it's false labour and will stop or slow down which it does not. Then instructed to go back when they are 30 seconds apart for an hour. I would like to show up at that point but unfortunately I cannot be that mean. *Plus her dad would likely murder me if it's my son.*
> 
> 
> DNA testing:
> I ordered three tests and I can do those. The results are fast. My wife is upset that I want to DNA tests but she says she knows they are my *children*.



OP,

Although you had mentioned your daughters... I noticed some emphasis that the child your wife is carrying is your son, while being gender neutral on the 3 & 4 year olds. Is this your boy?


Stay Strong, eat well, sleep, exercise, and take time let it out!


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

At the least do not sign the form at the hospital saying you are the father, tell her you will sign after the DNA NOT before. 

I suspect the reason your WW does not want you to talk to OM is that he might spill his guts, she also may still be in love with him and doesn't want to hurt him.

Some women are able to compartmentalize that having a work husband is somehow ok.


----------



## dontworrybehappy

Don’t make any decisions at this point. And maybe therapy. One thing I have learned is don’t listen to other opinions. This is your marriage and your life. People unfortunately on this site are bitter as hell! So they are not going to give you the positive only the negative. Your number one though is make sure you take care of yourself. Eat and drink plenty of water and lots of sleep. Speaking with negative people WILL make it worse. 

Let me repeat these people do not know you or live your life, and will say whatever bad things out of their own anger.


----------



## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> Mr C. I have always enjoyed your posts and so I want to clear things up if I can. I'm going to comment once more because I can't seem to help myself. I am not trying to advocate for anything other than OP to try to remain calm and assess the situation with a clear head remembering that there are mitigating circumstances. That's it. Maybe in the end he'll choose to end his marriage and maybe he won't. But I'd hate for him to make a quick, very emotional decision that he later regrets. If you think I'm saying he should definitely forgive her immediately, I'm not. I'm not even saying he should stay with her. But they do have children together so it would be nice if he could at least understand where it was coming from...the original affair from extreme grief and the hiding it from the guilt and bad advice from a therapist. I agree, it was a heinous thing for her to do and I'd have an easier time forgiving the former than the latter if I were standing in OP's shoes.
> 
> And to be clear, I don't think turning to alcohol and abandoning your wife emotionally should be compared to what she's done. I'm just saying, he did something that needed forgiving and she's done something that needs forgiving. And yes, I agree that her's is much worse and it's a huge betrayal but I think he  should consider this when assessing the entire situation. If he can't get past it than he can't. It's perfectly understandable.
> 
> Having now heard the details of the grief this couple was facing, I am amazed they are still together at all. I really can't imagine what that must have been like. My mind never even went to that scenario because it's just too awful to comprehend. I work with many patients who are grieving and they do some very self destructive stuff. I think this couple is no different unfortunately. I really wish she had told him of it at the time but I suspect that would have ended them and she knew it. Fear also makes us do horrible things sometimes.
> 
> If you still think I'm an awful person for having compassion for both of them I guess I can't do anything about that. I'm normally all about dumping all over a cheater but this is a very different type of situation than a typical cheating spouse and deserves more thought into how to deal with it. I hope that conveys what I'm trying to say better. If not, I give up. LOL


I responded to this in depth and somehow my post was deleted.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I don't know if this will provide solace to OP, but I've observed that losing a child, or having a damaged child seems to trigger infidelity in some women. Death of a child, infertility, abortion, stillbirth, birth of a special needs child--all of these seem to cause a woman to desperately, irrationally try to produce a healthy child, typically with another man. I think the primitive part of their brain somehow sees their current partner as unsuitable for breeding. This might be an evolutionary carryover from a time long ago when women were reproducing with men they did not know were actually close relatives and were producing bad offspring. I don't even think they know the reasons why they're doing it. All the primitive part of their brain knows is that they should try sex with another partner, and plants sexual desire into their consciousness. 

So I guess I'm saying she was going through a really hard time, reproductively speaking, and the primitive part of her brain took over. It's not that she was looking to have fun sex with another man. It's that her pre-programming as a potential mother was looking to produce offspring. That being said, I don't think I could forgive. 

Whatever you decide, OP, you'll get a lot of support and good advice here.


----------



## aine

Jus260 said:


> *Would you say a normal reasonable person could have sex with someone for allegedly more than half a year, then continue working with that person like nothing ever happened? I understand devil's advocate, but still.*
> 
> What's always stated on this board is that whatever you were told in the first confession is always understated by a longshot.
> 
> I don't think he should skip the birth unless he gets a DNA test that confirms he is not the father. That test should have been done immediately. His name should not go on the birth certificate until that is confirmed. At this point, I probably wouldn't DNA the other children.


No, a normal sane reasonable person would not, but someone who is in chronic agonizing grief might. Not the same thing.


----------



## aine

sokillme said:


> When it comes out that this is a LTA all this feeling sorry for OP's wife is going to seem very silly.
> 
> Drinking and not being around doesn't make ****ing someone else and saving pictures of it acceptable. Maybe I your marriages God help you. That is the type of mentality that allows people to cheat.


Yes, not painting the circumstances with the same brush is 'silly' to you. What do you actually know of gut wrenching chronic grief? Men and women grieve very very differently. I am not a cheater, never was and never will be, my WH has been. However, I do not like to have a cookie cutter approach to people's problems. This particular scenario is extraordinary and your 'dump the cheater mantra' is really getting old.
AND drinking, abandoning and neglecting a grieving wife means a man has broken his vows, to love his wife. You are looking at this through the lens of a typical male. I am not saying what she did was right,it was terrible but as I said (again) normal people can do awful things when they are grieving.


----------



## aine

notmyjamie said:


> I do like to help others and have done it to my own detriment on occasion. Going into work at 3am on my day off because I know it's crazy busy comes to mind. ZZZZzzz.
> 
> In this case, trying to help the OP see things from a gentler and less hurtful viewpoint only costs me a few minutes of my time. Although the more people post that I must be an idiot for my viewpoint the more my blood pressure is rising. LOL


 @notmyjamie, I see where you are coming from. 
In addition women and men grieve differently and men usually try to 'get over it' within a shorter time and 'take it like a man' whereas the mother is an open wound, looking for comfort. Osterweis M, Solomon F, Green M (1984). 
However, we have many 'experts' on here on adultery without looking at the surrounding circumstances. There is so much value in TAM 'experts' and on the whole I usually agree with them, but in this instance they need to tred more softly imo. In this case the lack of empathy, understanding and simple human compassion is astounding (comes across as 'burn the witch').


----------



## ConanHub

aine said:


> Yes, not painting the circumstances with the same brush is 'silly' to you. What do you actually know of gut wrenching chronic grief? Men and women grieve very very differently. I am not a cheater, never was and never will be, my WH has been. However, I do not like to have a cookie cutter approach to people's problems. This particular scenario is extraordinary and your 'dump the cheater mantra' is really getting old.
> AND drinking, abandoning and neglecting a vgrieving wife means a man has broken his vows, to love his wife. You are looking at this through the lens of a typical male. I am not saying what she did was right,it was terrible but as I said (again) normal people can do awful things when they are grieving.


This is bull**** equivalency. Quit making a bad argument.

I get that people can do stupid **** after trauma. This woman killed her marriage with her stupid **** and just kept piling on for 9 years until caught out.

OP hit the bottle in front of his wife, he didn't start sticking his penis where it didn't belong behind her back and then never confess, keep in constant contact with the woman he betrayed his wife with and even had her interact with his AP for years!

He never cheated, lied or kept in contact with the AP or had his wife communicate with his AP.

This woman is straight up poisonous and harmful and hasn't reformed.

If you can't comprehend the difference between diving into a bottle for 12 months to what she did, covered up and continued with for 9 years, that is your opinion but I seriously doubt you would apply it for yourself.

That being said, don't trash talk people who see this quite a bit differently than you and start bull**** gender bashing.


----------



## ConanHub

aine said:


> @notmyjamie, I see where you are coming from.
> In addition women and men grieve differently and men usually try to 'get over it' within a shorter time and 'take it like a man' whereas the mother is an open wound, looking for comfort. Osterweis M, Solomon F, Green M (1984).
> However, we have many 'experts' on here on adultery without looking at the surrounding circumstances. There is so much value in TAM 'experts' and on the whole I usually agree with them, but in this instance they need to tred more softly imo. In this case the lack of empathy, understanding and simple human compassion is astounding (comes across as 'burn the witch').


If she had pulled her head out of her ass after she ended the affair, she would get a little more consideration from me.

What she proceeded to do for the next 9 goddamned years isn't able to be written off. She is extremely selfish and self centered and didn't give a **** about rubbing her husband's nose in her lover's presence.

You seem to be discounting those years and what she proceeded to do.


----------



## aine

idkaname said:


> My daughters were 1 and 3 when they passed away. Their deaths were 6 weeks apart and unrelated to each other. Neither of us were at blame for their passing. We blamed each other because grief needed answers and reason.
> 
> I started drinking days after our first daughter passed away. If my wife's timeline is truthful it was 3 months of drinking before she started her affair. I was drinking for 12 months. Haven't touched it since.
> 
> I likely wouldn't have thought twice about her taking a new job at the time. It was the job placement she wanted but at the time I doubt I would have thought anything of it.
> 
> I really do not like talking about any of that.


I am sorry Idkaname, you have to talk about it. May be you do not want to talk about it because you know exactly how you blamed your wife, how you withdrew from her, how you abandoned and rejected her. in the midst of gut wrenching grief. 
You sunk into a bottle for 12 months, abandoning your wife and she made terrible choices as she did not have you to turn to. A man is supposed to be the leader in his home, to be the protector, the roof of his house. 
YOu also dropped the ball and yes, you were grieving too but to have no empathy for your wife now and listen to the 'burn her at the stake' crew here, I think you yourself know much better what you must do.

The infidelity was 100% her choice, granted but don't you see that your choices also contributed to this outcome? 12 months of drinking is not an overnight thing either believe me. What did you say to her when you were drunk, what ways did you blame her? How many nights did she sleep alone? How may times did she reach out to your for comfort and you were not to be found? What message were you sending to your wife? 
In doing so, did you betray your vows of your promise to love her and cherish her? Think about it. She has carried the guilt for years, she should have told you but did not want you to go through what you are going through now. 
I hate cheaters, infidelity, etc, I have been a BS but honestly in this scenario I have nothing but compassion for both of you.


----------



## aine

ConanHub said:


> Please don't ever compare being depressed and drinking to going on a 7 month **** fest.
> 
> There is no comparison.
> 
> Mrs. C and I went through some pretty serious trauma a few years ago and I started drinking heavily and became depressed. She did not start drinking but was equally distressed.
> 
> If she started fing her goddamned co-worker or anyone else for that matter during that time, we would be finished.
> 
> That is pure bull ****.
> 
> OP's wife could have been unstable but she didn't consider him ever. She only considered herself and never cared enough for him to confess and even had him texting the ass hole who f'd her for months while he suffered the same anguish she was.
> 
> She is vile and dark to her core to allow this to take place. She is truly 100% selfish and self centered.
> 
> 9 years......


Conan, I have alot of respect for you but this is hardly the same thing. In no way am I negating your accident but losing 2 kids........


----------



## aine

Cletus said:


> It is not the SAME.
> 
> It is just as DAMAGING.
> 
> I will add just one example, then I'm out of this topic.
> 
> In addition to all of the bad behavior that surrounds having/hiding an affair, which is more-or-less equivalent for the user, the spouse of the substance abuser has the added bonus of wondering if her spouse is even alive every time he's an hour late coming home.


Drinkers do alot of **** and say alot of **** they don't remember. I assume OP did both. Being drunk at your own kids funerals, to me says alot. 
Honestly, you put your wife through a living hell, she had to deal with a second dying kid and you were not even there for that? Honestly, it is a miracle that she stuck with you and worked through it. Divorcing such an unsupportive man would have been the best way to go. I do not condone her infidelity but I can sure as hell understand it. 
She had a man at home, only married on paper, no support, no love, no comfort, nothing, deal with his drunken behaviour and grieve at the same time. She was able to off load at the office and get comfort from someone else. You have no right to judge her at all, I am sorry. You shouldn't even be married still.

But hey, none of that is important, she let a man stick his penis in her.


----------



## aine

ConanHub said:


> OP didn't become an alcoholic. She didn't have a one off.
> 
> She kept at it for over half a year if she isn't minimizing and kept working with the ******* and even had her betrayed husband helping her text him and interact with him for 9 years and would have continued forever if she wasn't caught.


The OP was drunk for a bloody year! Drunk at his own kids funerals, when are you going to wake up and see the reality of the circumstances. The OP was not there, totally checked out, she had to deal with a second dying child alone, she should have divorced his sorry ass after that. What kind of man abandons his family like that?


----------



## aine

sokillme said:


> You are not braking vows when you drink. Lots of people believe alcoholism is a sickness. Infidelity is not it's a choice.
> 
> Sorry I don't see it.


Yes you bloody well are. Alcoholics are abusive as f****! They destroy everything and everyone. When your first love is the bottle, you ARE breaking your vows! Have you lived with an alcoholic? Have you been married to one?


----------



## aine

ConanHub said:


> This is bull**** equivalency. Quit making a bad argument.
> 
> I get that people can do stupid **** after trauma. This woman killed her marriage with her stupid **** and just kept piling on for 9 years until caught out.
> 
> OP hit the bottle in front of his wife, he didn't start sticking his penis where it didn't belong behind her back and then never confess, keep in constant contact with the woman he betrayed his wife with and even had her interact with his AP for years!
> 
> He never cheated, lied or kept in contact with the AP or had his wife communicate with his AP.
> 
> This woman is straight up poisonous and harmful and hasn't reformed.
> 
> If you can't comprehend the difference between diving into a bottle for 12 months to what she did, covered up and continued with for 9 years, that is your opinion but I seriously doubt you would apply it for yourself.
> 
> That being said, don't trash talk people who see this quite a bit differently than you and start bull**** gender bashing.


Conan, the OP said himself he doesn't remember much of that 12 months. He was drunk for most of it. It is possible he was not entirely above board either, he would not remember. I am surprised at your total lack of empathy of the circumstances. This is NOT black and white. In addition she should have divorced him after he abandoned her when the second child was dying and turned up drunk at their funerals where she had to hold things together. How come you keep giving him a pass for being a dreadful husband and leader or his home. Everything doesn't begin and end with sex.

And I think I have a lot of experience with a spouse diving into a bottle (probably much more than you) and know very well the consequences of same. What you don't seem to understand is that he broke his vows to love his wife when he abandoned her. Not one of you have considered his behavior or treatment of his wife in a most terrible time, why are you letting him off the hook?


----------



## aine

BigToe said:


> No. She made a mistake. No worse than the mistakes he made. But she was there for him when he was ready to come back. HIS own words; she forgave him.


She should have divorced him then and there, her loyalty and support means nothing now.


----------



## aine

ConanHub said:


> If she had pulled her head out of her ass after she ended the affair, she would get a little more consideration from me.
> 
> What she proceeded to do for the next 9 goddamned years isn't able to be written off. She is extremely selfish and self centered and didn't give a **** about rubbing her husband's nose in her lover's presence.
> 
> You seem to be discounting those years and what she proceeded to do.


How selective, she didn't tell him as advised by a therapist as it would be alleviating her guilt and putting on the husband. Or did you miss that post?

i have to stop posting here. This thread is making me angry. Yes she did wrong, she commited adultery and even worse hid the whole thing. However, noone is questioning the OP's behaviour. He gets a get out of jail free card, why? because he was grieving. This is bull****!


----------



## Bibi1031

It is interesting that the majority of the men say off with her head, while some of the women understand why she had the affair. No justifying it, but definitely understanding why it happened.

I think only Sammyaeger and Cletus understand why this woman cheated. 

Grief brings self destructive outlets in people. He self medicated with booze, she did it with sex. He couldn't hide his outlet, she could and did. Many people get away with keeping an affair secret. They deny til they die so to speak. 

It is amazing that a photograph appears 9 yeas later. What a ****ing slip of destiny to have that photograph appear eh? 

OP, if your wife forgave you and she really is telling you the truth; can you find it in your heart to forgive her? If all your children are indeed yours, can you forgive and get past the affair that happened 9 years ago and three kids later?


----------



## idkaname

I don't know what to think right now. I'm feeling overwhelmed and conflicted by all the responses. 

I'm not proud of the way I acted. I don't talk about it because it's humiliating. I regret answering a question about it. I could tell you many stories from that year that paint me in a bad light. The majority of the year I don't remember. What I do recall isn't good. I could drink a 750ml bottle a night so that I'd be out the next day and repeat. My wife admitted to not caring if I was dead when she checked to see if I was breathing. I know that I made mistakes but I didn't have sex with someone else. I stopped drinking and haven't picked it back up. She may still be in an affair. 

We did marriage counselling for two years. I owned my mistakes. My wife hid hers. I could say we were both wrong but I owned up. She didnt.


----------



## idkaname

Bibi1031 said:


> It is interesting that the majority of the men say off with her head, while some of the women understand why she had the affair. No justifying it, but definitely understanding why it happened.
> 
> I think only Sammyaeger and Cletus understand why this woman cheated.
> 
> Grief brings self destructive outlets in people. He self medicated with booze, she did it with sex. He couldn't hide his outlet, she could and did. Many people get away with keeping an affair secret. They deny til they die so to speak.
> 
> It is amazing that a photograph appears 9 yeas later. What a ****ing slip of destiny to have that photograph appear eh?
> 
> OP, if your wife forgave you and she really is telling you the truth; can you find it in your heart to forgive her? If all your children are indeed yours, can you forgive and get past the affair that happened 9 years ago and three kids later?


I don't know how to forgive her. How do I trust someone who lied for so long? How do I forgive her for having sex with another man during that time? I don't know how much truth she has given me.


----------



## Bibi1031

idkaname said:


> I don't know what to think right now. I'm feeling overwhelmed and conflicted by all the responses.
> 
> we are a diverse group and points of view will differ
> 
> I'm not proud of the way I acted. I don't talk about it because it's humiliating. I regret answering a question about it. I could tell you many stories from that year that paint me in a bad light. The majority of the year I don't remember. What I do recall isn't good. I could drink a 750ml bottle a night so that I'd be out the next day and repeat. My wife admitted to not caring if I was dead when she checked to see if I was breathing. I know that I made mistakes but I didn't have sex with someone else. I stopped drinking and haven't picked it back up. She may still be in an affair.
> 
> sex is an outlet. It simply was not your choice of outlet, but it was hers. Both outlets were wrong because they hurt the partner and the marriage.
> 
> We did marriage counselling for two years. I owned my mistakes. My wife hid hers. I could say we were both wrong but I owned up. She didnt.



You owned your mistakes because you couldn't hide the fact that you drank until intoxicated. She didn't own her transgression to YOU. She decided to follow a different advise and kept her transgression undisclosed to you. Sad to say, but her reaction to not tell you is quite common. Most cheaters get caught instead of confessing.


----------



## sokillme

aine said:


> You are looking at this through the lens of a typical male. I am not saying what she did was right,it was terrible but as I said (again) normal people can do awful things when they are grieving.


It's gross how you set the bar so low for women.


----------



## sokillme

Bibi1031 said:


> It is interesting that the majority of the men say off with her head, while some of the women understand why she had the affair. No justifying it, but definitely understanding why it happened.
> 
> I think only Sammyaeger and Cletus understand why this woman cheated.
> 
> Grief brings self destructive outlets in people. He self medicated with booze, she did it with sex. He couldn't hide his outlet, she could and did. Many people get away with keeping an affair secret. They deny til they die so to speak.
> 
> It is amazing that a photograph appears 9 yeas later. What a ****ing slip of destiny to have that photograph appear eh?
> 
> OP, if your wife forgave you and she really is telling you the truth; can you find it in your heart to forgive her? If all your children are indeed yours, can you forgive and get past the affair that happened 9 years ago and three kids later?


Just imagine if he had had an affair after his kids had died instead of the drinking the same people having compassion for her would be shouting to crucify him, but the difference would be those of us who say not to trust her would still be saying the same about him. 

Like every other thread on this board the same White Knights are going to Knight.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I don't know how to forgive her. How do I trust someone who lied for so long? How do I forgive her for having sex with another man during that time? I don't know how much truth she has given me.


You would be incredibly stupid to trust her now and not for a very long time. You don't even know the truth yet, all you know is she is capable of lying to you for 9 years. 

It's terribly premature to urge forgiveness before you even know what you are forgiving for. I really can't think of worse advice.

It's important for you to eventually forgive her but for now figure out what's going on. And don't listen to the "White Knights" telling you this is your fault. She could have divorced you that is what decent moral people do. They don't have affairs and then lie about them for years, right not this is the best case scenario.


----------



## Bibi1031

idkaname said:


> I don't know how to forgive her. How do I trust someone who lied for so long? How do I forgive her for having sex with another man during that time? I don't know how much truth she has given me.


I understand. It is hard to trust, but hopefully you can get all the truth you need. I believe if the children are yours, that she is telling you the truth. You can also get answers by asking the AP and using your friend the PI. You two have gone through hell. Please do remember that she forgave you for the way you self medicated. Hopefully you can learn to forgive her for the way she self medicated as well.

Both outlets are wrong. They are wrong in the same degree. Yours is not less than hers. Big difference is that she could hide it and you couldn't. Another big difference is that you owned your **** a year after the drinking outlet had run its course. She never discloser her outlet until she was caught.


----------



## GusPolinski

idkaname said:


> I have spent 20 years with me wife. 16 of those married. I'm 38 and my wife is 35. She is 35 weeks pregnant and we have a 3 and 4 year old.
> 
> She didn't ever plan to confess. She claims her therapist instructed her not to tell me as long as the affair was over.
> 
> I don't trust a word she says. I don't want her around me. I want to tell her to leave for a few days but I don't think I can legally do that.


DNA *ALL* the kids.


----------



## Sparta

You need to do whatever it takes for you to be right with yourself. No one else is going to be able to answer that for you. My opinion you need to find out how long that how long the affair really was or is still going on. Also find out if all the kids are yours. If they are not well then you don’t need to set up an appointment for a polygraph. If they all are yours then things get more complicated because she’ll never tell you the truth they never do.! polygraph all that stuff comes in the play. It’s not up to anyone else it’s up to you to decide if that’s how you’re going to take it. You can say I want to divorce right now. And that would be it. 

Hey buddy I feel terrible for what has happened to your family and you for the loss of your children. Also have a deal with this betrayal at what extent it is you don’t even know. You’re in my prayers and may God bless you.


----------



## Bibi1031

sokillme said:


> You would be incredibly stupid to trust her now and not for a very long time. You don't even know the truth yet, all you know is she is capable of lying to you for 9 years.
> 
> It's terribly premature to urge forgiveness before you even know what you are forgiving for. I really can't think of worse advice.
> 
> It's important for you to eventually forgive her but for now figure out what's going on. And don't listen to the "White Knights" telling you this is your fault. She could have divorced you that is what decent moral people do. They don't have affairs and then lie about them for years, right not this is the best case scenario.


Forgiving does not mean trusting her or even remaining married to her. Forgiveness is a choice. He can choose to forgive her outlet and even her hiding it.


----------



## sokillme

aine said:


> I am sorry Idkaname, you have to talk about it. May be you do not want to talk about it because you know exactly how you blamed your wife, how you withdrew from her, how you abandoned and rejected her. in the midst of gut wrenching grief.
> You sunk into a bottle for 12 months, abandoning your wife and she made terrible choices as she did not have you to turn to. A man is supposed to be the leader in his home, to be the protector, the roof of his house.
> YOu also dropped the ball and yes, you were grieving too but to have no empathy for your wife now and listen to the 'burn her at the stake' crew here, I think you yourself know much better what you must do.
> 
> The infidelity was 100% her choice, granted but don't you see that your choices also contributed to this outcome? 12 months of drinking is not an overnight thing either believe me. What did you say to her when you were drunk, what ways did you blame her? How many nights did she sleep alone? How may times did she reach out to your for comfort and you were not to be found? What message were you sending to your wife?
> In doing so, did you betray your vows of your promise to love her and cherish her? Think about it. She has carried the guilt for years, she should have told you but did not want you to go through what you are going through now.
> I hate cheaters, infidelity, etc, I have been a BS but honestly in this scenario I have nothing but compassion for both of you.


jld is that you?

What a truly horrible post. You basically blame him for her cheating because he is a man and she is a women.


----------



## Mr.Married

aine said:


> Yes, not painting the circumstances with the same brush is 'silly' to you. What do you actually know of gut wrenching chronic grief? Men and women grieve very very differently. I am not a cheater, never was and never will be, my WH has been. However, I do not like to have a cookie cutter approach to people's problems. This particular scenario is extraordinary and your 'dump the cheater mantra' is really getting old.
> AND drinking, abandoning and neglecting a grieving wife means a man has broken his vows, to love his wife. You are looking at this through the lens of a typical male. I am not saying what she did was right,it was terrible but as I said (again) normal people can do awful things when they are grieving.



OP: Your position has some VERY unique circumstances that are all wrapped in grief, guilt, blame, shame, and lack of coping skills due to external conditions.

I am NOT a proponent of affairs ..... BUT:

It may be easier to try your best to forgive and move on. Both of you could use some healing on multiple levels. You both have your share of not coping well. I don't blame
either one of you given your circumstance.

Yes it's tough. Yes you will have to swallow some ego. Yes it is a stab in the chest.

What do you think is the possibility of forgiving EACH OTHER and rebuilding?

Like I said ... I don't condone cheating .... but your circumstances are MUCH different than most.

Do you want your wife? Do ya'll want each other? The two of you have been down some of the worst roads possible.


----------



## sokillme

Bibi1031 said:


> Forgiving does not mean trusting her or even remaining married to her. Forgiveness is a choice. He can choose to forgive her outlet and even her hiding it.


Again there is a time for forgiving and a time for figuring out what happened. If his kids arn't his, if she is still in an affair everyone is going to have a different take (I probably shouldn't assume that, the usual white knights will be making excuses, probably using the fact that she is a women as one.) 

Can we let the guy figure out what is going on first?


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> I don't know what to think right now. I'm feeling overwhelmed and conflicted by all the responses.
> 
> I'm not proud of the way I acted. I don't talk about it because it's humiliating. I regret answering a question about it. I could tell you many stories from that year that paint me in a bad light. The majority of the year I don't remember. What I do recall isn't good. I could drink a 750ml bottle a night so that I'd be out the next day and repeat. My wife admitted to not caring if I was dead when she checked to see if I was breathing. I know that I made mistakes but I didn't have sex with someone else. I stopped drinking and haven't picked it back up. She may still be in an affair.
> 
> We did marriage counselling for two years. I owned my mistakes. My wife hid hers. I could say we were both wrong but I owned up. She didnt.



@idkaname - listen to me please!

Your drinking to escape pain, and your wife cheating and making homemade porn with a colleague were not "mistakes". They were choices! Bad choices.

But here is the big, big difference: Drinking to escape pain and hide from reality is bad. Really bad. But it is normal. And it does not violate your marriage vows.

Deciding to **** your coworker and take pornographic pictures is not normal! It is disgusting behavior and the ultimate betrayal.

It was not caused by your children dying.

Let's try this on: "idkaname, I ****ed Bill at work for months on end and I let him take pictures of him plowing me because I was grieving".

Yeah, that is pretty obviously complete bull****.

***

Now I have some observations and advice for you:

*1) Don't go to marriage counseling to get through this betrayal.*
I have been to marriage counseling. They will try to find out "what was missing" to excuse her behavior.

They will try to draw false equivalencies between your drinking and her ****ing Bill and making homemade porn with him.

They will tell you that that was her way of dealing with it and you lack empathy.

They will tell you that somehow your drinking made her do it and try to assign you at least some of the blame for her choices.

- Just like the people on this thread did.

There is NO EXCUSE for what she did. There is no equivalency between your grief-drinking and withdrawal and her ****ing Bill. None. 

That is complete and utter nonsense. If she wanted to leave you for your drinking. So be it. But instead she cuckolded you and then took further steps to have you interact with this man for years!

That is sick.

Question: When you did go to counseling, was it all about your drinking? What was her side of it?

***

*2) That photo was keepsake and the relationship probably went longer than 6-7 months.*

The reason I believe it went longer is that CHEATERS ALWAYS LIE AND MINIMIZE. Always. Take that to the bank.

She didn't forget to delete one photo for 9 years. That's ridiculous. She kept it as a reminder and she ****ed up and lost control of the file because she got sloppy. That's common sense.

***

*3) You should investigate and find out more*
If you are interested brother, I'll explain to you how to undelete material from her current and prior phones, and tell you how to poke around some other areas where cheaters might get sloppy.

You don't need to hire a PI for most of it.


***

*4) Yes, polygraphs do work*
Every applicant to the FBI is required to pass a polygraph with respect to drug use and counterintelligence. Something tells me they know a bit more about the usefulness of a polygraph than random internet people.

Lots of other very serious official organizations use them too. Yes they are real but their utility is limited.

If you do want to know more than you do now, and decide to polygraph her, make sure she gives you a detailed timeline and full admission of everything she has done, in writing.

Make sure you find a reputable polygraph operator that works with law enforcement.

And then don't be surprised by what you learn right before the polygraph.

***

*5) DNA test your children*
I'm so sorry idkaname, it sucks but you definitely should know if your children are yours biologically.

***

*6) You can't go full pressure for a while*
As you well know, right before birth and for a while after birth is a very physically and mentally stressful time for a mother, and it is crucial for the child.

You have to be a better person than your wife. Kind of a low bar to clear, I know you can do it.

***

*7) Blow that MF'er at her job up!*
Find more info, pics, videos, texts, emails, phone bill record etc. and blow up the other man to his work, his wife, people around him, etc.

You can easily find out everything about him using a cheap service like beenverified.com - with one piece of information like his name, phone number, etc. you can find out all his personal info, his wife's number and so on.

Destroy him.


***

*8) Understand that your wife is absolutely not who you thought she was. You need to detach from her before you make any decisions.*

Your feeling won't change immediately, and the normal reaction is to want to revert your marriage to the marriage you had a week ago.

That ain't gonna happen.

Your wife was able to **** another man, make porno with him, lie about it to your face for years, sleep without issues, have sex with you, interact with him, have you interact with him, and keep her ****-pic to reminisce over.

This not a "grieving wife" thing to do. It is simply despicable.

You have to detach and it will be really hard, because the rage is coming brother.

You will have to decide whether or not you can live with the memories, triggers, and the sheer thought of what she did, as well as her ability to take this lie to the grave, and the fact you will never know the full story.

And I know that having children in the mix changes everything and makes this so much harder. That is what makes what she has done even worse.

***

good luck bro, more later.


----------



## Mr.Married

sokillme said:


> Again there is a time for forgiving and a time for figuring out what happened. If his kids arn't his, if she is still in an affair everyone is going to have a different take (I probably shouldn't assume that, the usual white knights will be making excuses, probably using the fact that she is a women as one.)
> 
> Can we let the guy figure out what is going on first?


Not to sound contrary to my previous post but I do agree with you. It is important for him to find out the facts and choose from there.

I could be wrong but my gut says she is telling the truth ..... The keeping it hidden from him is something he will have to work out in his own mind/time.

His situation is so much more different than what we usually see here. I don't think cookie cutter fits this case .....


----------



## [email protected]

Idkaname, you can file for legal separation in the mean time.


----------



## Bibi1031

sokillme said:


> Can we let the guy figure out what is going on first?


I believe that is indeed what is happening. The sad thing is that with all our varying points of view, he may very well get over whelmed. 

Some folks here believe his wife is despicable for not telling him of the affair and she is a worthless cheater. Others beg to differ by realizing that grief makes good people do terrible things. In other words, she isn't despicable, worthless, etc. She is simply a human being that did a very hurtful thing that was very detrimental to her, her partner, and the whole family.

We can all give our opinions, but OP gets to decide what he can and can not live with. We will be here to help regardless of what he decides to do and whenever he decides to do it. This is his life, his choices and his time frame as well.


----------



## Mr.Married

Bibi1031 said:


> I believe that is indeed what is happening. The sad thing is that with all our varying points of view, he may very well get over whelmed.
> 
> Some folks here believe his wife is despicable for not telling him of the affair and she is a worthless cheater. Others beg to differ by realizing that grief makes good people do terrible things. In other words, she isn't despicable, worthless, etc. She is simply a human being that did a very hurtful thing that was very detrimental to her, her partner, and the whole family.
> 
> We can all give our opinions, but OP gets to decide what he can and can not live with. We will be here to help regardless of what he decides to do and whenever he decides to do it. This is his life, his choices and his time frame as well.


Totally agree ..... or perhaps I'm just influenced by your big blue Texas emoji eyes :grin2:


----------



## sokillme

Bibi1031 said:


> I believe that is indeed what is happening. The sad thing is that with all our varying points of view, he may very well get over whelmed.
> 
> Some folks here believe his wife is despicable for not telling him of the affair and she is a worthless cheater. Others beg to differ by realizing that grief makes good people do terrible things. In other words, she isn't despicable, worthless, etc. She is simply a human being that did a very hurtful thing that was very detrimental to her, her partner, and the whole family.
> 
> We can all give our opinions, but OP gets to decide what he can and can not live with. We will be here to help regardless of what he decides to do and whenever he decides to do it. This is his life, his choices and his time frame as well.


No we just believe divorce is a totally reasonable some might say expected outcome from a cheating spouse. It's at least a million times more acceptable then having an affair with a co-worker and saving pictures of it, then lying about it for 9 years. 

You and others seem more outraged over our reaction to the affair then the affair itself.


----------



## [email protected]

The photos cast a different light on all of this. Most cheaters are awfully shy of photos, but WW here posed for at least one. I'd bet that there were others. I think there's a whole lot of other stuff that hasn't been revealed so far. Among them might be a swingers party with her BF, or perhaps a threesome.


----------



## sokillme

[email protected] said:


> The photos cast a different light on all of this. Most cheaters are awfully shy of photos, but WW here posed for at least one. I'd bet that there were others. I think there's a whole lot of other stuff that hasn't been revealed so far. Among them might be a swingers party with her BF, or perhaps a threesome.


I hope you are wrong but from past experience it probably is going to be very bad.


----------



## faithfulman

Bibi1031 said:


> Some folks here believe his wife is despicable for not telling him of the affair and she is a worthless cheater. *Others beg to differ by realizing that grief makes good people do terrible things. * In other words, she isn't despicable, worthless, etc. She is simply a human being that did a very hurtful thing that was very detrimental to her, her partner, and the whole family.


You know, it's true. I didn't "realize" that grief "makes" people **** their coworkers and pose for pictures while doing it! 

I'm sure that her grief is quite evident and palpable in that picture.

***

*I have some equally plausible opinions:*

She kept the picture(s) as a reminder to never, ever, do that again. 

She had idkaname texting and talking to the other man as a way of saying "I'm sorry".

She kept in contact with the other man for 9 years because the best way to resist temptation and show contrition for adultery is to stay in contact with your OM every day, including phone calls and texting.


----------



## sokillme

faithfulman said:


> You know, it's true. I didn't "realize" that grief "makes" people **** their coworkers and pose for pictures while doing it!
> 
> I'm sure that her grief is quite evident and palpable in that picture.
> 
> ***
> 
> *I have some equally plausible opinions:*
> 
> She kept the picture(s) as a reminder to never, ever, do that again.
> 
> She had idkaname texting and talking to the other man as a way of saying "I'm sorry".
> 
> She kept in contact with the other man for 9 years because the best way to resist temptation is to stay in contact every day, including phone calls and texting.


Right? The bar is set so low.


----------



## MattMatt

It's possible that the picture was accidentally left behind when she thought all had been deleted.


----------



## Mr.Married

MattMatt said:


> It's possible that the picture was accidentally left behind when she thought all had been deleted.


Well surely that's what happened. 1 or 100 won't make much difference in the end.


----------



## faithfulman

MattMatt said:


> It's possible that the picture was accidentally left behind when she thought all had been deleted.


Sure it is possible. But is it likely? 

How did that picture get saved from one phone to the next, one computer to the next for 9 years, without her knowing about it and getting rid of it? 

Does that make sense? 

That sounds a lot more like a saved photo than an accidental leftover to me.


----------



## scaredlion

Sorry to say but if I was married to someone, who during the worst year of our marriage, stayed drunk all the time, blamed me for the deaths of my children, pushed me away, showed no love or comfort to me, no physical contact, totally ignored me and basically completely checked out of our marriage, I may also have gone out and found someone who showed me compassion. It's wrong but there are many women who cheat and trade sex for emotional comfort and compassion. There are also therapist that do say not to tell if it will cause hurt and destruction in the marriage. That's why she said nothing during MC. How do you forgive? Maybe you can't right now but you can get through this the same way she got through you deserting her and the marriage for a year. This happened 9 years ago but right now you are building scenarios that you are trying to span the whole 9 years. Yes, she did something very wrong but it doesn't mean it has continued. If it has, then is the time to pull the plug on the marriage not for what happened 9 years ago. Dissolution of a marriage should be the last answer to a problem the was perpetrated by the wrongs of both spouses. Even if one spouse did more damage than the other you were both wrong. Her actions for the last 9 years should indicate her worth as a wife. Would you think it reasonably correct for her to divorce you for your year of being drunk, or hold it against you still today? Ask yourself two questions and be totally honest with yourself. Did you love her before you found the picture? Has she been the wife you would want for the last 9 years? It brings to mind something I read. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Take some time to really think about things. What doesn't break you makes you stronger. I do wish you well.


----------



## syhoybenden

scaredlion said:


> I may also have gone out and found someone who showed me compassion.



It was not compassion.

It was erection!

Compassion you can get from a priest. Erection? Not so much.


----------



## jsmart

i could understand OP forgiving her if this was really only a sex only affair for 7 months. Even though it sickens me as a man, I get that men and women mourn differently and also have different needs during those times. I can understand not disclosing it because she was afraid and her counselor advised her not to confessed. Her allowing a guy to take sex pics, and maybe worse, is harder to understand but I guess, she was willing to do anything to keep the dopamine flowing. What I CAN"T accept is her continuing to CLOSELY work with the guy for 9 years.

Every TAMers knows how WWs usually fall for very hard for their AP. How is OP supposed to believe that it was only 7 months when they work closely everyday? So in all these years they haven't occasionally had a romp? She said it didn't mean anything. That it was only sex. I've read so many threads from WW on LS, that start off that way and within a very short time, these WW become obsessed with OM, willing to throw away their families for some dude they really don't know that well.

OP's friend is going to find the truth once he goes through her old devices. I'm sure they'll uncover old communication they shared. Was she in love with the guy at the time? Was she chasing after him when he pulled away after he moved or started to focus on his marriage? Sadly, I fear that he will find even more wanton pics or even a video. That she kept that sex pic for so long before trying to delete it, also shows that she held warm positive feelings for what she did long after it supposedly ended. 

His wife's response to his request to take a poly to prove that it really was only 7 months, is the most damning thing. If she is telling the truth, she should be desperate to prove that to him. Her getting upset at her husband for wanting to DNA the kids shows that how little empathy she has for her husband. He's just supposed to take her word for it? I really hope he finds out that she's telling the truth but my understanding of how people behave tells me he's going to find that it worse than she's admitted.


----------



## BruceBanner

Bibi1031 said:


> It is interesting that the majority of the men say off with her head, while some of the women understand why she had the affair.


Yes that's called biology.


----------



## MattMatt

faithfulman said:


> Sure it is possible. But is it likely?
> 
> How did that picture get saved from one phone to the next, one computer to the next for 9 years, without her knowing about it and getting rid of it?
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> That sounds a lot more like a saved photo than an accidental leftover to me.


It was on an Amazon account of some kind.

Recently I found a photo under similar circumstances of my wife playing with a friend's two cats. It was about 6 years old. I found it by accident.


----------



## Dragan Jovanovic

One word: Polygraph!!!!


----------



## BruceBanner

I think we should do a recap. They both sinned but their sins are not equal. Idkaname's wife had an affair nine years ago with another man at the job she still works to this day. She is still in contact with this man and has even had her husband come into contact with this person knowing what she has done with him in the past which is possibly still going on today. The affair was discovered because of a picture or souvenir that Idkaname discovered online. This recent revelation has sent Idkaname spinning and has even made Idkaname question the paternity of "his" children due to his wife not even using condoms which also exposed him to possible STDs. If even one of the children aren't his, particularly out of the children already born, then she has likely contributed to financially damaging his life as well as emotionally. She claims she felt guilty yet continues to work with the man she had an affair with to this day when she could've eventually found another job. She works directly with this man in a team of 4. It's not like they work in the same office and occasionally bump into each other. She has had to see and speak with this man all the time at work for the past nine years and every day of the week at that. Oh and she has lunch breaks with him.

Idkaname turned to beer while checking out for a year, being unsupportive, and verbally/emotionally abusing his wife by blaming her for the deaths of his two children as said in this reply. Idkaname aired his problems out and fixed his behavior with marriage counselling for two years. Idkaname's wife hid her sins and tried to bury them and pretend they didn't happen. Idkaname could've just as easily ran from his problems by telling his wife to go **** herself and that she should just forgive and forget the year he checked out and abused and neglected her and move on with the marriage like nothing happened. But he didn't. He confronted his issues instead of burying his head in the sand.

@idkaname did I get all that correct?

@Bibi1031 @scaredlion


----------



## ConanHub

Bibi1031 said:


> You owned your mistakes because you couldn't hide the fact that you drank until intoxicated. She didn't own her transgression to YOU. She decided to follow a different advise and kept her transgression undisclosed to you. Sad to say, but her reaction to not tell you is quite common. Most cheaters get caught instead of confessing.


Why not address the 9 year deception, working every day, hand in hand with the man she murdered her marriage with and even having her husband in contact and communication with her AP?

She never stopped betraying him on those levels to add to her original adultery.

You say it is quite common for cheaters to lie about it and I have to agree.

It is also quite common, and healthy I might add, to divorce someone who is a lying cheater.

It is unfortunately all to common for violence to erupt as well which isn't reported as much as it happens, from assaults to homicide and suicide.

Saying a cheater that lies is common is like saying a murderer hiding the murder weapon is common and absolutely no defense for her initial deceptions and continued betrayal for the next 9 years.

It is common that child molester molest children. It doesn't make it an argument to allow them around grade schoolers and this woman is absolutely unworthy of marriage.

She absolutely screwed it up and never did what it takes to repair it. She actually did some things to make it worse.


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> It's important for you to eventually forgive her but for now figure out what's going on. And don't listen to the "White Knights" telling you this is your fault. She could have divorced you that is what decent moral people do. They don't have affairs and then lie about them for years, right not this is the best case scenario.


This is going to shock sokillme, but I agree completely. Your actions were your actions. I'm sure they did not help the situation. But her decision to do what she did lies solely with her. I do understand it, I don't condone it, but you should not take the blame for it at all. If my posts came across in any way that I thought you should, I apologize. Blame it on poor writing skills. 

And please, please, please...do not respond to this crisis with alcohol. Hit the gym, start running, take up racquetball, whatever it is, just don't drink. That will only hurt yourself and your kids.


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> I don't know how to forgive her. How do I trust someone who lied for so long? How do I forgive her for having sex with another man during that time? I don't know how much truth she has given me.


You don't have to know, or figure any of that out right now.

You do not need to figure out how to forgive someone who behaved this way immediately even if she hadn't continued the deception and kept working with her AP until caught.

You really shouldn't trust her. She never stopped lying to you and deceiving you daily and even had the gaul to have you text him for her???

You really just need to make sure that you are as ok and healthy as you can be here under the circumstances.

Your marriage is on hiatus at least for now and you need time, space, help and healing first and foremost.

Questions of trust don't need to be looked at for a long time. She is straight up untrustworthy and she would have continued that way forever apparently.

Questions about forgiveness can, and should, wait until you are more healthy and less wounded.

Forgiveness shouldn't even be looked at right now.

Down the road, I sincerely hope that you can forgive her because it is healthy. Forgiveness doesn't mean that your destroyed marriage continues, it just means you release her from under your anger and wrath as well as unburdening yourself as well. It just means not holding it over her anymore and it will eventually be healthy for you to do it.

Your marriage is beyond toast so don't try to pick up the ashes of what she so thoroughly destroyed. That isn't your responsibility. She can attempt resurrecting the brutally slain victim of her behavior and she should do the work since she is guilty of the death.

You should focus on you and your kids. Getting info from a PI isn't bad because you can't really trust your wife now can you.

You should probably get some legal advice as well as professional mental help to make sure someone is looking out for you because you still have to take good care of your children.

She probably didn't lie about the paternity of your kids but you can't take her word for anything now so getting DNA testing done will at least put that to rest.

Unfortunately, you are going to need facts to back up whatever she tells you from now on and she did this to herself as well as you.

Do you have anyone that can help you with the kids and generally make sure you are taking care of yourself?

It is easy to not eat, sleep or generally do the basics that need taken care of during something this terrible.


----------



## aine

sokillme said:


> jld is that you?
> 
> What a truly horrible post. You basically blame him for her cheating because he is a man and she is a women.


So Kill Me, I appear to have a different opinion from you, get over it! If you had read all of my posts I am not condoning what she did at all, neither do I give him a free pass like you seem to do either. I know what it is like to live with a man who numbs his inner turmoil with alcohol. I know what it does. So I understand where she is coming from. She should have confessed, in fact she should have divorced him and moved on. A man who checks out on his family like that deserves some flak too. 

So frankly I really don’t give a damn about your opinion of my posts or me. You have been nothing but insulting. Perhaps this is all a bit too close to the bone for you?


----------



## ShatteredKat

one point of view:

"Sorry to say but if I was married to someone, who during the worst year of our marriage, stayed drunk all the time, blamed me for the deaths of my children, pushed me away, showed no love or comfort to me, no physical contact, totally ignored me and basically completely checked out of our marriage, I may also have gone out and found someone who showed me compassion. It's wrong but there are many women who cheat and trade sex for emotional comfort and compassion. There are also therapist that do say not to tell if it will cause hurt and destruction in the marriage. That's why she said nothing during MC. How do you forgive? Maybe you can't right now but you can get through this the same way she got through you deserting her and the marriage for a year. This happened 9 years ago but right now you are building scenarios that you are trying to span the whole 9 years. Yes, she did something very wrong but it doesn't mean it has continued. If it has, then is the time to pull the plug on the marriage not for what happened 9 years ago. Dissolution of a marriage should be the last answer to a problem the was perpetrated by the wrongs of both spouses. Even if one spouse did more damage than the other you were both wrong. Her actions for the last 9 years should indicate her worth as a wife. Would you think it reasonably correct for her to divorce you for your year of being drunk, or hold it against you still today? Ask yourself two questions and be totally honest with yourself. Did you love her before you found the picture? Has she been the wife you would want for the last 9 years? It brings to mind something I read. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Take some time to really think about things. What doesn't break you makes you stronger. I do wish you well. "


and another:


"I think we should do a recap. They both sinned but their sins are not equal. Idkaname's wife had an affair nine years ago with another man at the job she still works to this day. She is still in contact with this man and has even had her husband come into contact with this person knowing what she has done with him in the past which is possibly still going on today. The affair was discovered because of a picture or souvenir that Idkaname discovered online. This recent revelation has sent Idkaname spinning and has even made Idkaname question the paternity of "his" children due to his wife not even using condoms which also exposed him to possible STDs. If even one of the children aren't his, particularly out of the children already born, then she has likely contributed to financially damaging his life as well as emotionally. She claims she felt guilty yet continues to work with the man she had an affair with to this day when she could've eventually found another job. She works directly with this man in a team of 4. It's not like they work in the same office and occasionally bump into each other. She has had to see and speak with this man all the time at work for the past nine years and every day of the week at that. Oh and she has lunch breaks with him.

Idkaname turned to beer while checking out for a year, being unsupportive, and verbally/emotionally abusing his wife by blaming her for the deaths of his two children as said in this reply. Idkaname aired his problems out and fixed his behavior with marriage counselling for two years. Idkaname's wife hid her sins and tried to bury them and pretend they didn't happen. Idkaname could've just as easily ran from his problems by telling his wife to go f*ck herself and that she should just forgive and forget the year he checked out and abused and neglected her and move on with the marriage like nothing happened. But he didn't. He confronted his issues instead of burying his head in the sand."


and this too:


" i could understand OP forgiving her if this was really only a sex only affair for 7 months. Even though it sickens me as a man, I get that men and women mourn differently and also have different needs during those times. I can understand not disclosing it because she was afraid and her counselor advised her not to confessed. Her allowing a guy to take sex pics, and maybe worse, is harder to understand but I guess, she was willing to do anything to keep the dopamine flowing. What I CAN"T accept is her continuing to CLOSELY work with the guy for 9 years.

Every TAMers knows how WWs usually fall for very hard for their AP. How is OP supposed to believe that it was only 7 months when they work closely everyday? So in all these years they haven't occasionally had a romp? She said it didn't mean anything. That it was only sex. I've read so many threads from WW on LS, that start off that way and within a very short time, these WW become obsessed with OM, willing to throw away their families for some dude they really don't know that well.

OP's friend is going to find the truth once he goes through her old devices. I'm sure they'll uncover old communication they shared. Was she in love with the guy at the time? Was she chasing after him when he pulled away after he moved or started to focus on his marriage? Sadly, I fear that he will find even more wanton pics or even a video. That she kept that sex pic for so long before trying to delete it, also shows that she held warm positive feelings for what she did long after it supposedly ended.

His wife's response to his request to take a poly to prove that it really was only 7 months, is the most damning thing. If she is telling the truth, she should be desperate to prove that to him. Her getting upset at her husband for wanting to DNA the kids shows that how little empathy she has for her husband. He's just supposed to take her word for it? I really hope he finds out that she's telling the truth but my understanding of how people behave tells me he's going to find that it worse than she's admitted."


I think all of this needs consideration: I have known women who view sex as recreation and excape/tension release. Maybe the wife here? Losing two children so close together and still together for 9 more years and now 3 more children? 

I think time to pause and re-assess all that has happened. Jumping to divorce seems to be mostly an emotional choice. Long term (6 months?) her sexcapade and coverup/hiding for 9 years - with the (to me) obvious intention of taking the sin (!) to the grave - doesn't bode well for these two. 

For me, the merde panini for him to chew is huge - but in addition to that is the loss of trust and sense of honesty. 

I agree the lack of willingness to do a polygraph is very much in line with the lack of honesty. What else is she hiding? 

Working next to the paramour for 9 more years? Women can do that with total detachment. 

I think he needs to separate for awhile and do a lot of detective work and introspection. I don't advocate "stay for the kids" - but it IS a consideration to add to the mess he unwittingly discovered.


----------



## ConanHub

aine said:


> So Kill Me, I appear to have a different opinion from you, get over it! If you had read all of my posts I am not condoning what she did at all, neither do I give him a free pass like you seem to do either. I know what it is like to live with a man who numbs his inner turmoil with alcohol. I know what it does. So I understand where she is coming from. She should have confessed, in fact she should have divorced him and moved on. A man who checks out on his family like that deserves some flak too.
> 
> So frankly I really don’t give a damn about your opinion of my posts or me. You have been nothing but insulting. Perhaps this is all a bit too close to the bone for you?


What is very offensive about this is your disdain for OP's health.

Maybe you should show some more compassion for the guy who is posting this thread and just got betrayed at a very harmful level.

He doesn't need your correction. He owned his **** long ago and overcame it.

He doesn't need your 2x4 for something he rectified years ago.

His wife never owned her **** and continued to do untrustworthy and incredibly disrespectful things for 9 years.

Your derision of the OP is out of place.

Maybe you could look at who never owned their problem here and stop taking shots at the spouse who did.


----------



## TJW

ShatteredKat said:


> merde panini






ShatteredKat said:


> I really hope he finds out that she's telling the truth but my understanding of how people behave tells me he's going to find that it worse than she's admitted.


Yes, and that therapist should lose his/her license. It was very, very poor advice, to keep this hidden from her husband. which probably contributed to keeping her "in" the affair, even if only on a psychological basis. I see this therapist as responsible for the destruction of a marriage here.

It is advice based upon pop-psychology horse****, rather than on the confirmed and long-proven veracity of God's word.

This therapist should read, and understand, this ancient message with two promises: (Proverbs 28:13 KJV)

_He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy._

Promise, and promise. God's promises are ALWAYS kept. Never fail.


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## ConanHub

TJW said:


> Yes, and that therapist should lose his/her license. This was very, very poor advice, which probably contributed to keeping her "in" the affair, even if only on a psychological basis.
> I see this therapist as responsible for the destruction of a marriage here.
> 
> This therapist should read God's word, and understand this ancient message with two promises: (Proverbs 28:13 KJV)
> 
> _He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy._


The therapist is a marriage destroyer for sure but did advise her to go no contact with her AP and find another job at least.

She apparently didn't like that advice so she only followed what suited her and kept her husband in the dark, ignored her therapist and kept working very closely with her AP and even got her husband in touch with her AP as well.

She is a good decision maker, no?


----------



## jsmart

That’s the part that makes it hard to forgive. Closely working with this guy for 9 years. If she felt guilt or shame for betraying her husband after things turned around, how can she bare to be with this guy every working day. Wouldn’t it kill her inside that she’s working with this guy?


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## TJW

ConanHub said:


> ignored her therapist and kept working very closely with her AP and even got her husband in touch with her AP as well.
> 
> She is a good decision maker, no?


Yes. One who operates out of the Cheater's Handbook, chapter 3, page 1..... make a "family friend" of the POSOM.


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## TJW

jsmart said:


> how can she bare to be with this guy every working day. Wouldn’t it kill her inside that she’s working with this guy?



Yes, if she actually felt guilt and shame. However, this kind of contrition seems to come only AFTER the cheater is caught and faces consequences. While yet undiscovered, the cheater only wants to PRESERVE the adulterous relationship.


----------



## sokillme

aine said:


> So Kill Me, I appear to have a different opinion from you, get over it! If you had read all of my posts I am not condoning what she did at all, neither do I give him a free pass like you seem to do either. I know what it is like to live with a man who numbs his inner turmoil with alcohol. I know what it does. So I understand where she is coming from. She should have confessed, in fact she should have divorced him and moved on. A man who checks out on his family like that deserves some flak too.
> 
> So frankly I really don’t give a damn about your opinion of my posts or me. You have been nothing but insulting. Perhaps this is all a bit too close to the bone for you?


I didn't say one word about you. I made a joke and said YOUR POST was horrible.

She lived with a man who was an alcoholic for one year then he got his life together. She lied to him for 8 more. Thing you don't seem to remember is he was going through the same grief as her. Just like he should have showed her compassion she should have shown him some to. That was HER job as his wife. Instead she didn't just abandon him she gave herself sexually (something that she pledged to him and was his) to someone else. 

One crime is passive the other is active. And her disrespect of him and her marriage has never stopped.


----------



## MattMatt

The problem with her course of action was that she was, perhaps unwittingly, rubbing her husband's nose in the affair. "Hey, husband please dial the number of my ex-lover for me. The ex-lover you do not know about."

Or it could be that she felt trapped in a situation of her own making?

She might have thought like this:- How could she go no contact with her colleague without giving a reason? Also, how could she change jobs with no honest explanation?

I feel that now they could both benefit from truthful marriage counselling with all cards on the table, outlining what **** each one did in or on their marriage.

However, DNA tests would be of great benefit (even if only to remind her of the devastating impact her infidelity had on him) and a polygraph session couldn't hurt, either.

I think that there need to be consequences for the OM. If you see that a colleague is suffering as she was, you call in Human Resources to arrange grief counselling. You *do not* start a sexual affair with them.

It's my guess he has done this before and probably afterwards with other colleagues or even clients, so he *must *be held accountable for his actions and he should be subjected to a thorough examination by Human Resources and senior staff.


----------



## idkaname

My wife claimed she didn't intentionally keep the picture and didn't know it was there. She thought she deleted them all after he took them.

The best way I can g-rated explain the picture is she was butt up, a man's hand was on her rear and the other hand was likely holding the phone at his chest. It's possible she didn't know the picture was taken. She would have seen it later though since it was her device not the other guys.

My friend found some pictures and videos from the same time period. I didn't think I'd ever say my friend has my wife's porn.

I want to know the likelihood of the new baby being mine. It feels like 0%. 

Nothing has been found indicating the affair is current. She works with him though so why bother texting or calling. They had all day together five days a week.

The guy did move. My wife was telling the truth about that. He married his current wife 3 years ago.

I don't know what to think.


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## MattMatt

idkaname said:


> My wife claimed she didn't intentionally keep the picture and didn't know it was there. She thought she deleted them all after he took them.
> 
> The best way I can g-rated explain the picture is she was butt up, a man's hand was on her rear and the other hand was likely holding the phone at his chest. It's possible she didn't know the picture was taken. She would have seen it later though since it was her device not the other guys.
> 
> My friend found some pictures and videos from the same time period. I didn't think I'd ever say my friend has my wife's porn.
> 
> I want to know the likelihood of the new baby being mine. It feels like 0%.
> 
> Nothing has been found indicating the affair is current. She works with him though so why bother texting or calling. They had all day together five days a week.
> 
> The guy did move. My wife was telling the truth about that. He married his current wife 3 years ago.
> 
> I don't know what to think.


Was that 0% or 100%?


----------



## idkaname

MattMatt said:


> Was that 0% or 100%?


Zero. I have no proof the affair was ongoing but even so it feels like 0%. The affair may have stopped when she claims or she could have kept hooking up with him five lunch breaks a week.


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## idkaname

She said she didn't quit her job because she was scared I would be suspicious. Claimed it was uncomfortable but she felt it was punishment for cheating.


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## MattMatt

idkaname said:


> Zero. I have no proof the affair was ongoing but even so it feels like 0%. The affair may have stopped when she claims or she could have kept hooking up with him five lunch breaks a week.


Damn. I feel for you. Hopefully they are all yours, 100%.


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## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> Zero. I have no proof the affair was ongoing but even so it feels like 0%. The affair may have stopped when she claims or she could have kept hooking up with him five lunch breaks a week.


She probably gave you a mostly true outline but you have no way of knowing without facts and possibly interviews from others for verification because your wife simply can't be trusted.

How are you holding up?

How are your kids doing and do you have anyone to help you around the house, with your kids and even to help make sure you're taking care of yourself?


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## MattMatt

idkaname said:


> She said she didn't quit her job because she was scared I would be suspicious. Claimed it was uncomfortable but she felt it was punishment for cheating.


That was a thought I just had. She might not have wanted to raise any suspicions. And the concept of self-punishment would fit the facts you have.


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## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> She said she didn't quit her job because she was scared I would be suspicious. Claimed it was uncomfortable but she felt it was punishment for cheating.


Was it comfortable for her to have you text him?

I'm not buying her bull**** personally.


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> She said she didn't quit her job because she was scared I would be suspicious. Claimed it was uncomfortable but she felt it was punishment for cheating.


That's definitely bull****.

It was such punishment working with her affair partner that she had you text him?

What would have been suspicious about her finding a new job during a 9 year period? 

My advice: If she makes excuses unworthy of a ten year old, don't believe them. It will only hurt you to believe them.

Time to be skeptical of everything she says.


----------



## idkaname

ConanHub said:


> She probably gave you a mostly true outline but you have no way of knowing without facts and possibly interviews from others for verification because your wife simply can't be trusted.
> 
> How are you holding up?
> 
> How are your kids doing and do you have anyone to help you around the house, with your kids and even to help make sure you're taking care of yourself?


I don't know how I'm doing. I can't say I'm fine. Nothing compares to losing children. In comparison this is like a stubbed toe. It hurts and but I'll live. My kids don't know what's going on.


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## idkaname

ConanHub said:


> Was it comfortable for her to have you text him?
> 
> I'm not buying her bull**** personally.


She said it made her nervous and uncomfortable. If she's driving and she gets a text I check her phone. I frequently text for her. She claimed she thought it would be obvious if she didn't ask me to text him or let me see her phone.


----------



## sokillme

For the sake of argument lets FOOLISHLY assume that the affair has been over as long as she said it was. 

Someone said it's possible for people to have sex with someone and then after it's over compartmentalize, see them every day and have it not affect your feelings. I guess that might be true. 

But I don't believe it's possible for a wife or husband to have sex with someone and see them everyday and THAT not show a total lack of respect or just plain disdain for you spouse and your marriage. So even if she did eventually lose all feelings for this guy, the fact that she could sit with him, work with him closely every day, when they have this hidden torrid sexual intimacy (one she says she was ashamed of though none of the facts seem to bear that out), being with him every day for years shows at the very least a total lack of understanding of what being a spouse is and how that works. It shows a total disregard for the sanctity of marriage and how your bond with your spouse should work. 

I can't even imagine disrespecting myself or my wife like that. I even get not wanting to admit something horrible you did to save the marriage. I can't imagine having such a deep level of intimacy and that big a secret with someone other then my wife and being with them every day afterwords, not if I love my wife and covet my marriage. But I respect my wife as a part of myself, I love my wife and know how terribly that would hurt her. I understand how disrespectful that would be to her, and I would never want to do something that disrespectful to someone who just be her very role in my life warrants my respect. 

So putting aside the sex, the disrespect, at least in my mind shows this women is not someone anyone should be married to. She doesn't get it. Maybe she did once but she no longer does. It's a truism that once you know you do wrong you don't want to continue to do things that you know will hurt the person you wronged. Unless she has something developmentally wrong with her she had to know how much that part would hurt him, but she did it anyway. To me this shows that she has yet to repent.

I think she is like almost all cheaters who you read about. She doesn't get it, she really doesn't understand bonding. That always seems to be the difference. They don't see their life, once married, as US, they see it as ME and my spouse. So her actions primary take herself into account. There seems to be no consideration of her actions being a part of a bigger whole. In the end, in my mind THIS is what makes them bad choices to be marred to. Their actions are always measured by how it effects them, not us. And for this women all her actions from the point of the affair, to the cover up, to working with he lover daily have been selfish and without a real deep regard to how they could eventually hurt and damage her husband. 

The real problem is always in their nature.

Finally this notion that "She was a grieving women and he wasn't there what do you expect" doesn't wash with me. It's insulting to every women who stays faithful, it's really no different then "Well he is a man and she wasn't giving him sex what do you expect". Both arguments are sexist, we should all expect more.


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> It's possible she didn't know the picture was taken. She would have seen it later though since it was her device not the other guys.
> 
> My friend found some pictures and videos from the same time period. I didn't think I'd ever say my friend has my wife's porn.


No, it really isn't possible she didn't know, because:

1) The picture was in her device. By the way, you can check the metadata to find out more information about the picture, including exactly when it was taken, what device it was taken on, and even the coordinates/location the photo was shot.

This is called "EXIF Data" let me know if you want more info. 

2) There was more porn. This was not an accident or a surprise. She knew it was happening and she willingly participated, more than once.


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> I don't know how I'm doing. I can't say I'm fine. Nothing compares to losing children. In comparison this is like a stubbed toe. It hurts and but I'll live. My kids don't know what's going on.


I'm talking about day to day care.

How are you managing?


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> She said it made her nervous and uncomfortable. If she's driving and she gets a text I check her phone. I frequently text for her. She claimed she thought it would be obvious if she didn't ask me to text him or let me see her phone.


If what she is saying about her motivations is true, she is quite solidly deranged at a mild level at least.

If what she is saying about her motivations is accurate, she is still mentally unwell and has been the entire time.

Does she still see a therapist? If I recall, the first one she put the blame on for not confessing has disappeared and she doesn't even remember his name?


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She said she didn't quit her job because she was scared I would be suspicious. Claimed it was uncomfortable but she felt it was punishment for cheating.


Does this make sense to you? It's 9 years, how many people do you know stay in jobs for 9 years? Her punishment huh? Does she have any concept of how disrespectful that was to you? Does she even understand the idea of respecting your spouse and your marriage?



> My wife claimed she didn't intentionally keep the picture and didn't know it was there. She thought she deleted them all after he took them.
> 
> The best way I can g-rated explain the picture is she was butt up, a man's hand was on her rear and the other hand was likely holding the phone at his chest. It's possible she didn't know the picture was taken. She would have seen it later though since it was her device not the other guys.


That was fast. Did you give him her current phone? If not you should. Thing is she may have a burner phone.

So wait the guy used her phone to do this? How did he get the pictures then was she emailing them to him? What? Does make sense to you?



> My friend found some pictures and videos from the same time period. I didn't think I'd ever say my friend has my wife's porn.


Disgusting isn't it. Let's say she doesn't know about the picture, she also doesn't know about the video?

Nothing you have said her changes my mind that your wife is still a liar. I still wouldn't believe a word she says and I wouldn't believe these two excuses. My post above address the ramped disrespect she has shown for you, just that would be enough for me, but I am not going to rehash it here. 

If it were me the picture would be enough too, the bond I feel for my wife would be permanently broken at that point. Maybe you are different. 

Unless you are done, I would still push onto the Polygraph. Her story still doesn't wash. Also call his wife, and let her know. I would do it under the grounds that you have no idea if the affair has ended. At the very least it will probably get HIM to move to a new job. If the affair is still ongoing there will be two sets of eyes looking into it. Plus this women should know what a POS she is married to.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

idkaname said:


> I don't know how to forgive her. How do I trust someone who lied for so long? How do I forgive her for having sex with another man during that time? I don't know how much truth she has given me.


 You don't have to forgive her at all . It's likely you eventually will, but understand forgiveness is for you not for her. It also doesn't negate the consequences. You can divorce her and never speak another word to her and still forgive her. It just means you stop harboring anger or resentment towards her.


> for·give
> /fərˈɡiv/
> verb
> stop feeling angry or resentful toward (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake.


 The mental gymnastics of a few here trying to justify (call it "understand" if you want, but that's crap) this WW's betrayal and subsequent "cover-up" is on the verge of delusional and possibly violate the Terms of Use of this site to help the person posting their problem, not try to destroy them.


----------



## sokillme

OP are you still in contact with her? Have you talked to her family? How is her health? That is still important she is still a human being and your wife. I personally would stop talking to her for a while just to calm things down for myself but I would check in on her with her Father. 

Assuming he is not part of the problem, I would also tell her Father exactly what she did. If he is a good man and Father he can have an influence and being a father will probably be a little harder on her plus he may have more sympathy for your position, being a husband himself. Her parents are going to side with her as they should, but they can "hate the sin and love the sinner". If they are truly Christians they will also have sympathy for you too. Christian or not they may even be evolved enough to understand that the end of the marriage is a very realistic even likely result of this kind of behavior if you choose to go that way. I think most people get that.


----------



## idkaname

ConanHub said:


> I'm talking about day to day care.
> 
> How are you managing?


I'm managing. I'm not drinking and I'm not going to. My kids are easy to handle. My parents live nearby if I need them. My kids will go to my in laws with my wife on Monday for a few days then switch back. They frequently spend time with grandparents so it's normal for them.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> OP are you still in contact with her? Have you talked to her family? How is her health? That is still important she is still a human being and your wife. I personally would stop talking to her for a while just to calm things down for myself but I would check in on her with her Father.
> 
> Assuming he is not part of the problem, I would also tell her Father exactly what she did. If he is a good man and Father he can have an influence and being a father will probably be a little harder on her plus he may have more sympathy for your position, being a husband himself. Her parents are going to side with her as they should, but they can "hate the sin and love the sinner". If they are truly Christians they will also have sympathy for you too. Christian or not they may even be evolved enough to understand that the end of the marriage is a very realistic even likely result of this kind of behavior if you choose to go that way. I think most people get that.


I haven't talked to her. Her dad is retired and with her all day so she's okay. She's going to the hospital today for tests and her mom said she would update me on it. I expect her parents to stand by her. As they should. Her dad would bend over backwards for her no questions asked. They will hold her accountable but be supportive. They have in the past for her choices they didn't agree with. Despite what she did she does need support right now being pregnant. I didn't tell her to go there to be punished. I need space and she needs support. 

Her dad called me to talk about it. He won't be shocked if we divorce. He knows her side of the story and doesn't agree with her choices or what she is blaming.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I haven't talked to her. Her dad is retired and with her all day so she's okay. She's going to the hospital today for tests and her mom said she would update me on it. I expect her parents to stand by her. As they should. Her dad would bend over backwards for her no questions asked. They will hold her accountable but be supportive. They have in the past for her choices they didn't agree with. Despite what she did she does need support right now being pregnant. I didn't tell her to go there to be punished. I need space and she needs support.
> 
> Her dad called me to talk about it. He won't be shocked if we divorce. He knows her side of the story and doesn't agree with her choices or what she is blaming.


Good, at least you have that. 

You have already gone through a very deep level of pain so like you said you know you can get through this. That really is the one positive (if you can call that) thing you can get out of this, though you probably have already learned this lesson. If you can get through what you got through you can get through anything. 

Understand you are probably never going to know the full truth and doubt is going to be a part of your relationship going forward whatever it is. That is probably the biggest loss of the whole thing. It's very hard to have the primary person in your life, the one your life really depends on be a person you can't trust fully. This statement is fully acknowledging that you should never trust anyone fully, but it's one thing to be unsure of what someone is capable of and other to know what they are. 

If you have enough to know you're done then I don't think the Poly is necessary, just the DNA test for your kids. If you are unsure then get the Poly, don't tell her the questions. Give her a chance to come clean but tell her she has one chance before you go and if you find out she is lying you are done. But wait until the kid is born.

Then you will have the sex and the concept of respect in marriage. For most men these two things are really of primary importance. From the story even if the affair was not ongoing your wife really has no concept or respect for you.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Too soon to forgive, so forget about that. You will not forgive if you do not feel she is being honest. You need to catch her being honest.

Find the therapist and have your wife set up a meeting with therapist, her, and you.

Call the other guy and ask for when the affair started and ended.

My gut is that the affair started earlier and ended later than what your wife states. I'm not sure if that matters much in the overall picture.

The top sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. In the case of a spouse who has full access to the phone and a cheater who works closely with the affair partner, the cheater might get a burner phone or just not contact outside of work. But that would be extremely unlikely. One of the other would get emotionally attached and would need that contact outside of work.

The second sign of cheating is behavior - cold, distant, less affectionate or no affection at all, getting annoyed by everything you say or do.

There are exceptions, but they are rare. From what you've posted, neither of those signs have occurred for some number of years.

What people lie to about the affair is the things they believe would hurt keeping what they want - marriage. So what could your wife be lying about? 1-The length of the affair, especially if the affair started before your first child died. 2-I have heard many times about women who cheated who got pregnant and aborted and the husband never knew. 3-The sex itself being of a nature that would find you especially abhorrent to you - fetish stuff possibly. 4-Obviously her not knowing the name of the therapist is a red flag. Not wanting a polygraph is normal, but most cheaters will do it if it's that or losing the marriage. It's embarrassing, like getting tested for STDs to tell the doctor why, to tell the parents what happened, or going into a polygrapher's office about your affair.

What you should do is find out the name of the therapist, you must have paid him. And call the affair partner and get his story. How long the affair was, was there a pregnancy scare, etc. Call the guy without telling your wife about it. And DNA your kids.

I personally would leave your wife out of all of it for now. Wait a few weeks until the baby is born to deal with her.

Your main goal should be to determine if your wife is now being honest with you. If she is, time will tell if you can forgive her and move forward together with her. If she is not telling the truth, or even if you feel that she is being dishonest and can't prove it one way or the other, I doubt you will be able to ever be happy staying with her.


----------



## wilson

idkaname said:


> My kids don't know what's going on.


Not to minimize the situation, but your kids are at a good age if you guys decide to divorce. The younger they are, the less likely the divorce will have long-lasting emotional impacts. They will quickly adjust to the new normal of two households. It can be a lot harder when they're older and more emotional, as the divorce can have more impact on their personalities. When they're so young they'll be upset initially, but they'll spring back pretty quickly and adapt to their new life.

If you decide to try to reconcile, you will have to commit to being able to forgive her in your heart for what happened. You'll never forget and the pain will never go away, but you can't punish her forever. That will just lead to a terrible marriage that will greatly affect the kids. Reconciliation has to mean creating a good marriage rather making her pay for her sins. Reconciliation has to mean creating a marriage that is healthy for the kids. Unfortunately, you'll likely never get the answers that make all the pain magically go away. You'll have to come to terms with what happened and find someway to move forward.


----------



## ConanHub

idkaname said:


> I'm managing. I'm not drinking and I'm not going to. My kids are easy to handle. My parents live nearby if I need them. My kids will go to my in laws with my wife on Monday for a few days then switch back. They frequently spend time with grandparents so it's normal for them.


You should probably consult with a lawyer just to see what your options are and get an overview of what you might be looking at.

Find out what your rights are and what choices you can make.

Ask about everything including ass hat and their work environment.

You might have some options you don't know about.

He actually might have some trouble coming his way legally but you don't know if you don't ask.

He did take advantage of a mentally ill married woman. Not sure if he can be brought to justice for it but he did do something that is not just morally wrong but could have legal ramifications.

He used his job and work environment to seduce a mentally ill co-worker so there might be something to sink teeth into.

You also want to explore all your options regarding your wife and how everything might play out in a divorce, separation, reconciliation or any combination and anything in between.

Take your time with this. It will be cathartic in that it will at least give you back some agency and choice in your life that your wife has denied you for almost 10 years.


----------



## sokillme

OutofRetirement said:


> Too soon to forgive, so forget about that. You will not forgive if you do not feel she is being honest. You need to catch her being honest.
> 
> Find the therapist and have your wife set up a meeting with therapist, her, and you.
> 
> Call the other guy and ask for when the affair started and ended.
> 
> My gut is that the affair started earlier and ended later than what your wife states. I'm not sure if that matters much in the overall picture.
> 
> The top sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. In the case of a spouse who has full access to the phone and a cheater who works closely with the affair partner, the cheater might get a burner phone or just not contact outside of work. But that would be extremely unlikely. One of the other would get emotionally attached and would need that contact outside of work.
> 
> The second sign of cheating is behavior - cold, distant, less affectionate or no affection at all, getting annoyed by everything you say or do.
> 
> There are exceptions, but they are rare. From what you've posted, neither of those signs have occurred for some number of years.
> 
> What people lie to about the affair is the things they believe would hurt keeping what they want - marriage. So what could your wife be lying about? 1-The length of the affair, especially if the affair started before your first child died. 2-I have heard many times about women who cheated who got pregnant and aborted and the husband never knew. 3-The sex itself being of a nature that would find you especially abhorrent to you - fetish stuff possibly. 4-Obviously her not knowing the name of the therapist is a red flag. Not wanting a polygraph is normal, but most cheaters will do it if it's that or losing the marriage. It's embarrassing, like getting tested for STDs to tell the doctor why, to tell the parents what happened, or going into a polygrapher's office about your affair.
> 
> What you should do is find out the name of the therapist, you must have paid him. And call the affair partner and get his story. How long the affair was, was there a pregnancy scare, etc. Call the guy without telling your wife about it. And DNA your kids.
> 
> I personally would leave your wife out of all of it for now. Wait a few weeks until the baby is born to deal with her.
> 
> Your main goal should be to determine if your wife is now being honest with you. If she is, time will tell if you can forgive her and move forward together with her. If she is not telling the truth, or even if you feel that she is being dishonest and can't prove it one way or the other, I doubt you will be able to ever be happy staying with her.


I agree with everything except trusting the guy to tell the truth. What is his incentive. I would start with his wife because if the affair is still ongoing she may be able to catch them. 

I think it is plausible that the hot and heavy period may be over but that doesn't mean that they don't still occasionally fool around at work. Lots and lots of cheaters go back to their AP when the feeling hits them. LTA lots of times have an intense period at the beginning but then return every once in a while. And in this case they don't really need to communicate by phone because they spent hours with each other every day.


----------



## sokillme

wilson said:


> If you decide to try to reconcile, you will have to commit to being able to forgive her in your heart for what happened. You'll never forget and the pain will never go away, but you can't punish her forever. That will just lead to a terrible marriage that will greatly affect the kids. Reconciliation has to mean creating a good marriage rather making her pay for her sins. Reconciliation has to mean creating a marriage that is healthy for the kids. Unfortunately, you'll likely never get the answers that make all the pain magically go away. You'll have to come to terms with what happened and find someway to move forward.


It's probably too early to really mean much but this should be said if only to counter the idea that lots of people who try to reconcile have that they are going to one day go back to the marriage they had before. It's usually not uncommon for people trying to stay together to say that they still think about the affair every day years even decades later. To suffer every day. Marriages to have sexual problems years even decades later especially when it's not just the proverbial "mind movies" but real pictures.

The idea that you can have a better marriage after this only makes sense if you had a truly awful abusive marriage. Maybe for the spouse who cheats because usually they have very serious emotional problems and this forces them to deal with that, but the idea the abused spouse can defies logic. People who say this seem delusional to me or just very invested in the idea that they made the right choice. I will say though there are those who seem to get to the point of having a good marriage again, but the pain is a part of that. 

It's way to early for you to decide and you absolutely must feel like she is contrite to the point of no longer protecting herself, but you should at least know what you are signing up for. You are still pretty young. 

People who move on seem to really not feel the pain anymore especially if their love is invested in a different person. It's the love that gives the affair it's power so no love for the cheater means no power. For me it just feels like an old car accident or something. It has given me great empathy for those who are cheated on though.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> Does this make sense to you? It's 9 years, how many people do you know stay in jobs for 9 years? Her punishment huh? Does she have any concept of how disrespectful that was to you? Does she even understand the idea of respecting your spouse and your marriage?
> 
> 
> That was fast. Did you give him her current phone? If not you should. Thing is she may have a burner phone.
> 
> 
> So wait the guy used her phone to do this? How did he get the pictures then was she emailing them to him? What? Does make sense to you?
> 
> Disgusting isn't it. Let's say she doesn't know about the picture, she also doesn't know about the video?
> 
> Nothing you have said her changes my mind that your wife is still a liar. I still wouldn't believe a word she says and I wouldn't believe these two excuses. My post above address the ramped disrespect she has shown for you, just that would be enough for me, but I am not going to rehash it here.
> 
> If it were me the picture would be enough too, the bond I feel for my wife would be permanently broken at that point. Maybe you are different.
> 
> Unless you are done, I would still push onto the Polygraph. Her story still doesn't wash. Also call his wife, and let her know. I would do it under the grounds that you have no idea if the affair has ended. At the very least it will probably get HIM to move to a new job. If the affair is still ongoing there will be two sets of eyes looking into it. Plus this women should know what a POS she is married to.


She can work in schools, hospitals and private clinics. Her career is in demand. She could have found a new job. The position she has is what she wanted and it is hard to come by. She works with TBI's mostly. She could have taken a different position though. Giving up her dream job and taking a slight pay cut could be the punishment. 

I don't think she knows how disrespectful it is. She didn't seem to get it. Her dad said the same.

Yes I gave him her current phone. She left all of her devices here when I told her to. What is a burner phone?

She said he had pictures too but claims to have deleted them when she asked him to. I didn't ask how he got them. I assume he took some with his phone. The guy still having pictures and videos may be the worst part for me. I have pictures of my wife but no one else should. I was the only guy she had been with it should have stayed that way. I didn't look at the other pictures found. I don't need to see that. My friend said what they were. 

Should I call his wife even though he wasn't married to her at the alleged time? I have her number. 

I don't know what I'm going to do. What is holding me back from wanting a divorce is that we've conquered worse and came back stronger. We were happy until this came out.


----------



## idkaname

The DNA tests will be here on Monday. I could have the results by the end of next week. Paying extra for rushed results is worth it to me. I want to know before my wife goes into labour. The new baby can be done after he's born. 

I will have to work myself up to seeing a lawyer. That feels final. I have already lost my family once and rebuilt. I'm not sure I want to do it again. I don't know what I will do.


----------



## idkaname

OutofRetirement said:


> Too soon to forgive, so forget about that. You will not forgive if you do not feel she is being honest. You need to catch her being honest.
> 
> Find the therapist and have your wife set up a meeting with therapist, her, and you.
> 
> Call the other guy and ask for when the affair started and ended.
> 
> My gut is that the affair started earlier and ended later than what your wife states. I'm not sure if that matters much in the overall picture.
> 
> The top sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. In the case of a spouse who has full access to the phone and a cheater who works closely with the affair partner, the cheater might get a burner phone or just not contact outside of work. But that would be extremely unlikely. One of the other would get emotionally attached and would need that contact outside of work.
> 
> The second sign of cheating is behavior - cold, distant, less affectionate or no affection at all, getting annoyed by everything you say or do.
> 
> There are exceptions, but they are rare. From what you've posted, neither of those signs have occurred for some number of years.
> 
> What people lie to about the affair is the things they believe would hurt keeping what they want - marriage. So what could your wife be lying about? 1-The length of the affair, especially if the affair started before your first child died. 2-I have heard many times about women who cheated who got pregnant and aborted and the husband never knew. 3-The sex itself being of a nature that would find you especially abhorrent to you - fetish stuff possibly. 4-Obviously her not knowing the name of the therapist is a red flag. Not wanting a polygraph is normal, but most cheaters will do it if it's that or losing the marriage. It's embarrassing, like getting tested for STDs to tell the doctor why, to tell the parents what happened, or going into a polygrapher's office about your affair.
> 
> What you should do is find out the name of the therapist, you must have paid him. And call the affair partner and get his story. How long the affair was, was there a pregnancy scare, etc. Call the guy without telling your wife about it. And DNA your kids.
> 
> I personally would leave your wife out of all of it for now. Wait a few weeks until the baby is born to deal with her.
> 
> Your main goal should be to determine if your wife is now being honest with you. If she is, time will tell if you can forgive her and move forward together with her. If she is not telling the truth, or even if you feel that she is being dishonest and can't prove it one way or the other, I doubt you will be able to ever be happy staying with her.


If the affair started before our daughter's passed away I would never ever be able to forgive that. The idea of it angers me. 

Women get pregnant and abort to hide it? Seriously? She has had one abortion but it was medically necessary. She was distraught about it. Now I want to ask her if she was ever pregnant by him but I don't want to talk to her. That would be enough for me to know for sure that I want a divorce. Even a pregnancy scare is pushing it. One of my children was conceived with birth control. I know it can fail.

I don't care what sex acts she did with the guy. Our sex life is varied and good. Anything either of us have wanted to try we have. If we had a bad sex life perhaps I'd be more interested in what she did with him. 

If I decide to polygraph my PI friend knows people who do it. I'm tempted to tell her to do it just to get a confession out of her. If it's an ultimatum I think she would do it.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She can work in schools, hospitals and private clinics. Her career is in demand. She could have found a new job. The position she has is what she wanted and it is hard to come by. She works with TBI's mostly. She could have taken a different position though. Giving up her dream job and taking a slight pay cut could be the punishment.
> 
> I don't think she knows how disrespectful it is. She didn't seem to get it. Her dad said the same.
> 
> *Yeah in a sense it explains how she was able to it in the first place, and this isn't a women or a man thing it's a cheater vs non cheater thing. Like I said they don't have the same kind of bond or reverence for the bond. That makes it very hard because I don't think this is something you can learn because it's a very visceral thing almost primal. Somewhere along the way she never got that.
> *
> 
> Yes I gave him her current phone. She left all of her devices here when I told her to. What is a burner phone?
> 
> *This is a second phone that you keep hidden somewhere just to communicate with your affair partners. It's common in affairs.*
> 
> She said he had pictures too but claims to have deleted them when she asked him to. I didn't ask how he got them. I assume he took some with his phone. The guy still having pictures and videos may be the worst part for me. I have pictures of my wife but no one else should. I was the only guy she had been with it should have stayed that way. I didn't look at the other pictures found. I don't need to see that. My friend said what they were.
> 
> *So if he had his own phone to use to take pictures why was he using hers? I pretty strong possibility is that she wanted the pictures too at least at some point. So this really makes her story of her never wanting to take pictures unlikely. Also the fact that you guys takes pictures seems to me at least to indicate that that is kind of a normal thing she does with her partners. Not sure if that is good or bad, maybe it just explains it. *
> 
> Should I call his wife even though he wasn't married to her at the alleged time? I have her number.
> 
> *How did you get the number? I personally would call. I would apologize to her for having to tell her but I would say that you just found out that her husband and your wife had a sexual affair with photographs at least 9 years ago at the lowest part of your marriage when you had lost two kids and your wife was most vulnerable. That the reason why you are calling is because they have continued to work together for 9 years since and you really are unsure if the affair is over or not. That is the primary reason you are calling because having her be aware of the possibility gives you a better chance of it ending if it still is going on. But also because you have lived for 9 years not knowing who your wife is and that if someone could have told you the truth you would have wanted to know. That would be my take. But also in my mind **** this guy he doesn't deserve you preserving his image when he didn't give a **** about your marriage right in the middle of the worst time in your life. And if they are having an affair you need to break it up. But be kind to this women make sure she is sitting down and tell her this is going to be hard to hear. Remember how you feel, she will probably feel the same. It's doubtful she know at lest the full extent.*
> 
> I don't know what I'm going to do. What is holding me back from wanting a divorce is that we've conquered worse and came back stronger. We were happy until this came out.
> 
> *Just detach for now, it will get easier to know with time.*


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

Yes call the OMW now, before your WW or OM plants a story in OMW head that you are crazy.

If afterward your WW calls you angry you know she is still in contact with OM and has not blocked him.

She deserves to know that her H cheated with a married woman.

Suggest that she snoops on him.

Find out from your WW has OM had other affairs.

She might also pressure her husband to quit rather than continue to work with your WW

If I were you I would demand OM removes his tattoos with a blow torch hopefully.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> Should I call his wife even though he wasn't married to her at the alleged time? I have her number.


If they weren't married at the time, I'd stay away. The only reason to tell the other spouse is so they can make an informed decision about their own health (STDs) and the future of their marriage. Or if its an ongoing affair then its easier to stop with the other BS involved. This doesn't really come into play since supposedly the affair stopped prior to the APs marriage/vows. Now if you find evidence that it continued during the APs marriage, then I think the right thing is to let her know.

I haven't read all the responses, but if they still work together a condition of any R (if you choose) is for her to quit her job and find another.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> The DNA tests will be here on Monday. I could have the results by the end of next week. Paying extra for rushed results is worth it to me. I want to know before my wife goes into labour. The new baby can be done after he's born.
> 
> I will have to work myself up to seeing a lawyer. That feels final. I have already lost my family once and rebuilt. I'm not sure I want to do it again. I don't know what I will do.


You are doing fine. This is a **** show that no one knows what to do with. Even if your kids are not biologically they are still your kids. They will see you as their father. Nothing can brake that.

The lawyer is for peace of mind at least for now.


----------



## idkaname

TAMAT said:


> IDK,
> 
> Yes call the OMW now, before your WW or OM plants a story in OMW head that you are crazy.
> 
> If afterward your WW calls you angry you know she is still in contact with OM and has not blocked him.
> 
> She deserves to know that her H cheated with a married woman.
> 
> Suggest that she snoops on him.
> 
> Find out from your WW has OM had other affairs.
> 
> She might also pressure her husband to quit rather than continue to work with your WW
> 
> If I were you I would demand OM removes his tattoos with a blow torch hopefully.


OMW is other man's wife? WW is my wife? Wandering wife is that what it stands for?

My wife threw the guy under the bus quickly. He's been with other married women. I'd be nice if his wife made him quit his job so I don't have to deal with it.


----------



## idkaname

If I see a lawyer that doesn't get back to my wife does it? Only if I file?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> TAMAT said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDK,
> 
> Yes call the OMW now, before your WW or OM plants a story in OMW head that you are crazy.
> 
> If afterward your WW calls you angry you know she is still in contact with OM and has not blocked him.
> 
> She deserves to know that her H cheated with a married woman.
> 
> Suggest that she snoops on him.
> 
> Find out from your WW has OM had other affairs.
> 
> She might also pressure her husband to quit rather than continue to work with your WW
> 
> If I were you I would demand OM removes his tattoos with a blow torch hopefully.
> 
> 
> 
> OMW is other man's wife? WW is my wife? Wandering wife is that what it stands for?
> 
> My wife threw the guy under the bus quickly. He's been with other married women. I'd be nice if his wife made him quit his job so I don't have to deal with it.
Click to expand...

WW= wayward wife

I think its muddy enough to where telling the OMW wouldn't be out of bounds as they still work together. I have serious reservations that they simply stopped and nothing inappropriate continued after their 7 mo affair. That would be unusual.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

idkaname said:


> If I see a lawyer that doesn't get back to my wife does it? Only if I file?


No. Its between you and the lawyer. Most offer free consultations where you can learn about your rights as a father, any questions you have and what the process would look like. She wouldn't know unless you told her. Now if you file, she will know 🙂


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> OMW is other man's wife? WW is my wife? Wandering wife is that what it stands for?
> 
> My wife threw the guy under the bus quickly. He's been with other married women.


Wayward wife.

Even more reason to tell his wife, these guys don't suddenly grow a deep abiding respect for the sanctity of marriage.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> She said he had pictures too but claims to have deleted them when she asked him to.
> 
> Sorry man but that's doubtful
> 
> I didn't look at the other pictures found. I don't need to see that. My friend said what they were.
> 
> Do the date stamps correlate with her story?


Clarity on which way you need to go will come with time. Don't rush it.


----------



## TJW

idkaname said:


> I will have to work myself up to seeing a lawyer. That feels final. I have already lost my family once and rebuilt. I'm not sure I want to do it again. I don't know what I will do.


Going to see a lawyer for his/her advice and time isn't final. You do not have to initiate any action. This visit should be for knowledge, where you stand, what judgments are likely to be made should you decide to proceed. 

You don't have to make any decision at all now. Just get information. I'm glad you got the expedited DNA tests, that's a good move.

@OutofRetirement is exactly correct, it's too soon to worry about forgiveness. Forgiveness can only come when your wife is repentant, and you have the entire array of knowledge which is factual, truthful, and shows that she "gets it". Right now, she doesn't "get it", she is still in the "damage control" mode, and is thinking far more of herself than she is of you and what she has done to you.



sokillme said:


> this isn't a women or a man thing it's a cheater vs non cheater thing. Like I said they don't have the same kind of bond or reverence for the bond.


I have to agree with this. It was the most difficult thing I ever encountered. It was like my wife was some kind of sociopath who had a completely Godless position on her promiscuity, as if it were somehow "ok" to do this.

She has to switch modes into the "what have I done to my family and my husband" mode before your forgiveness can be extended and before she can appropriate it.

Hopefully, she will get there, in time.

Mine didn't. She went to her grave never having "got it", I'm afraid.


----------



## Jus260

sokillme said:


> Just imagine if he had had an affair after his kids had died instead of the drinking the same people having compassion for her would be shouting to crucify him, but the difference would be those of us who say not to trust her would still be saying the same about him.
> 
> Like every other thread on this board the same White Knights are going to Knight.


I'm afraid to read the rest of the posts in this thread. This is different than the typical white knight interactions that we normally see on this board. Something is different. It must have something to do with the fact that the cheater is in her 3rd trimester of pregnancy. Other than the pregnancy, I don't see any differences between this cheater an any other cheater who gets mentioned in this board.


----------



## drifting on

Yeswecan said:


> The AP is not your problem. Your W is your problem.




Something many won’t see is that in work affairs and continued contact keeps the affair ongoing, yet dormant. So in this case, I believe the AP is very much a concern for Idkaname. This affair could reignite at any time, and nobody the wiser, as all communication is in person or work phones.


----------



## stillthinking

> I don't know what I'm going to do. What is holding me back from wanting a divorce is that we've conquered worse and came back stronger.


You have come thru worse. But it was different.

Unless I am reading this wrong....the deaths of your children were not due to your or your wife’s actions. That tragedy happen TO you. By forces and circumstances outside your control.

What your wife did TO you and your marriage was completely a result of her choices. She caused this. There were no forces and circumstances that were out of her control. Aliens did not land and make her cheat, for months, with video and pics to boot.

Likewise your actions of drinking caused consequences.

BUT, and it’s a big BUT, you admitted to your faults. Your mistakes. You apologized. You changed your behavior. You corrected course and have stayed on the straight and narrow since.

She did not own up. Apparently she cherry picked the advice given from her therapist. Keep it hidden...check. Get a new job.....nope. Get the OM out of your life.....hardly.

So yes. You have been thru worse. But getting shot by the enemy is different that being stabbed in the back.


----------



## Decorum

Oh this is awful. and she made one bad decision after another. Staying in contact with him, honestly how did she think you would feel when you found that out? 

It makes it so much worse.

I think you should tell the Om's wife. You may find something out that corroborates or disproves your wife's story. Maybe have you PI friend introduce himself and say a client of his wants her to have this information and is looking to know the whole story. Or something like that, I am not sure just calling her out of the blue is a good idea. What does anyone else think?

Also am I right that you have contacted the OM already so he may have primed his wife if you should call.


----------



## farsidejunky

idkaname said:


> The DNA tests will be here on Monday. I could have the results by the end of next week. Paying extra for rushed results is worth it to me. I want to know before my wife goes into labour. The new baby can be done after he's born.
> 
> I will have to work myself up to seeing a lawyer. That feels final. I have already lost my family once and rebuilt. I'm not sure I want to do it again. I don't know what I will do.


IDK:

The only thing you should be in a hurry to do right now is ascertain the truth.

Everything else needs to be on a super slow roll. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Jus260

Bibi1031 said:


> I understand. It is hard to trust, but hopefully you can get all the truth you need. *I believe if the children are yours, that she is telling you the truth.* You can also get answers by asking the AP and using your friend the PI. You two have gone through hell. Please do remember that she forgave you for the way you self medicated. Hopefully you can learn to forgive her for the way she self medicated as well.
> 
> Both outlets are wrong. They are wrong in the same degree. Yours is not less than hers. Big difference is that she could hide it and you couldn't. Another big difference is that you owned your **** a year after the drinking outlet had run its course. She never discloser her outlet until she was caught.



You've probably already answered this five times already since last night, but what are you basing this on? Maybe this was stated and I missed it or maybe it's in one of the five pages that I haven't read yet. Is she on any kind of birth control? She says they had sex for seven months without a condom and she managed not to get pregnant. How can you be sure the affair ended when she said it ended.


I don't know how often this has happened here but this is the first time I've seen more than a person here or there accept a first confession as rock solid. At least that's the way a lot of posts are reading in this thread.


----------



## notmyjamie

Jus260 said:


> I don't know how often this has happened here but this is the first time I've seen more than a person here or there accept a first confession as rock solid. At least that's the way a lot of posts are reading in this thread.


Speaking only for myself, I will admit that the circumstances of their life at the time of the affair totally muddled the waters for me when I first started reading this thread. Today, I am feeling like there probably is more to the story. I would hope OP will still keep a cool head while searching out the truth as she is pregnant and added stress is not a good idea right now.

I still have great compassion for her situation but today I'm feeling a little differently. I somehow missed the fact that she was still texting this man and had, at times, made OP text him for her while driving on numerous occasions. That is extremely disrespectful to OP. 

Also, after a good night's sleep and learning a bit more from OP, it's becoming more and more bothersome to me that they spent two years in therapy working on "his" problem and she never confessed her own problems. I would sincerely hope that if she had at that time, OP would have been open to working it out after giving the mitigating circumstances some consideration. I do think her main motivation was fear but not taking the therapists advice to change jobs and go no contact so she could keep her beloved job just seems awfully selfish to me. 

I know that sounds a lot different than what I said yesterday but in learning more and being better rested today (I was coming off a night shift yesterday) I think I am seeing things in a less emotional way today. I never thought her affair was OP's fault though...just to be clear. She owns that and will always own that.

I will say it bothers me a lot to know that OP's friend has these pictures of her naked and performing sex acts. I get that OP wanted to unravel more of the truth, but it was obvious she was going to be extremely exposed in the pictures. That is a huge invasion of her privacy and if/when she learns this man has seen her in that way, she will be very, very upset. I'm sure someone will say she deserves it but I think exposing her body to someone without her consent is taking it too far. I certainly hope this friend can be trusted not to disseminate these pictures or use them for any reason. I'm sure the fact that I am a woman colors my judgement on this as well but if someone did that to me, I wouldn't care what I'd done to them, I'd be livid.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> My wife threw the guy under the bus quickly. He's been with other married women. I'd be nice if his wife made him quit his job so I don't have to deal with it.


Interesting that she had the number readily available but then again you did say that they text for work. Thing is that is probably his personal cell phone, not a good way to contact his wife. 

Maybe folks on here can help with how to get her number.


----------



## TJW

Jus260 said:


> this is the first time I've seen more than a person here or there accept a first confession as rock solid.



I don't know if that's true. I think most of us veterans of affairs recognize that "trickle truth" is quite the rule, and "rock solid" would be the extremely-rare exception.

There seems to me, there's a contingent of replies which seem to give empathy for her grief, but lack any empathy for the OP who ALSO lost his children and endured the wrestle with grief. Fact is, he lived in the same marriage as his wife did.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> Her dad called me to talk about it. He won't be shocked if we divorce. *He knows her side of the story and doesn't agree with her choices or what she is blaming.*


Blameshifting is common upfront but that is not a good sign. If that doesn't change you may stay together but True R won't happen.

Her father is correct it was a choice/decision on her part. 

Many want to see a magical fairy tale ending but that's a rare occupancy IMO


----------



## mickybill

Just another opinion on the photos.

I would not be shocked today many people have intimate photos of their partner's "naughty bits" or action shots. This is "ok" if both are willing but
illegal for revenge. I work with younger people and one guy showed me the pics that his xgfs (yes guys will save those) sent him. R rated not X and, a female friend was griping her bf was ignoring her so she was going to send him a boob shot. I was in a LDR and we would send photos once in a while. In an affair it may have been be exciting for them to send each other photos during work, just to spice things up. Since a phone is always within 3 feet people can take a lot of pictures just for kicks, sometimes without the other person knowing.

With the photos don't trust the EXIF or metadata or date date stamps. Sometimes when the pics are emailed the original date falls off and is replaced by the current date. This also can happen when a phone pic is saved on a computer then resized or cropped the date may change. If you open the 9 year old pic and save it to another device it may show a different date.
As far her a saving a memento, IDK but I have like 9000 pics from many years ago on my phone, and whenever I get a new one they are copied from the cloud so I don't pick and choose.

There is a 90% chance the OM co worker has pics of your WW in his trophy folder, especially if is a player like WW claims.


----------



## TJW

notmyjamie said:


> if/when she learns this man has seen her in that way, she will be very, very upset. I'm sure someone will say she deserves it


Ok. I'll say it. She deserves it....

But the real question is whether or not SHE says that she deserves it. If she does, there is then hope for reconciliation in this marriage. She may be livid as a knee-jerk reaction, but if she, over time, becomes aware that there are consequences of her choices, and she must accept and own them, then her appropriation of her husband's forgiveness, and God's, can become effectual in her life.


----------



## faithfulman

notmyjamie said:


> I will say it bothers me a lot to know that OP's friend has these pictures of her naked and performing sex acts. I get that OP wanted to unravel more of the truth, but it was obvious she was going to be extremely exposed in the pictures. That is a huge invasion of her privacy and if/when she learns this man has seen her in that way, she will be very, very upset. I'm sure someone will say she deserves it but I think exposing her body to someone without her consent is taking it too far. I certainly hope this friend can be trusted not to disseminate these pictures or use them for any reason. I'm sure the fact that I am a woman colors my judgement on this as well but if someone did that to me, I wouldn't care what I'd done to them, I'd be livid.


Idkaname wasn't sharing around her pictures for amusement, his friend was investigating to get an idea of the extent of her disgraceful behavior and betrayal, which was huge. 

The concern here should be with the piece of garbage who likes to **** married women having custody of these pics, not the PI.

However, yes, the PI has seen her ****ing and whatever else she was doing. Yes, it is possible they could get out further. 

Tough ****! That's the risk you run when you make sleazy adultery porn.


----------



## mickybill

sokillme said:


> Interesting that she had the number readily available but then again you did say that they text for work. Thing is that is probably his personal cell phone, not a good way to contact his wife.
> Maybe folks on here can help with how to get her number.


I have not "known" a phone number since cell phones appeared, but I know my best friend's number from 1970.
Spokeo, Whitepages and other online sources can give a profile on the OM which includes his wife and family address, phone. Some for a one time fee or a monthly.Just be sure to cancel as soon as you get the info to avoid recharges. Don't ask me why I know this


----------



## faithfulman

mickybill said:


> With the photos don't trust the EXIF or metadata or date date stamps. Sometimes when the pics are emailed the original date falls off and is replaced by the current date. This also can happen when a phone pic is saved on a computer then resized or cropped the date may change. If you open the 9 year old pic and save it to another device it may how todays date.


You can trust the EXIF data. What you are referring to is the file system data that can change when an image is saved from one device to another. 

EXIF data is embedded in the image file by the device of origin. The way to get rid of it is to re-export the file as a new image but that does not always work. Copying it around will not remove EXIF data.


----------



## faithfulman

TJW said:


> There seems to me, there's a contingent of replies which seem to give empathy for her grief, but lack any empathy for the OP who ALSO lost his children and endured the wrestle with grief. Fact is, he lived in the same marriage as his wife did.


Yeah, it's mind-boggling.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> I will say it bothers me a lot to know that OP's friend has these pictures of her naked and performing sex acts. I get that OP wanted to unravel more of the truth, but it was obvious she was going to be extremely exposed in the pictures. That is a huge invasion of her privacy and if/when she learns this man has seen her in that way, she will be very, very upset. I'm sure someone will say she deserves it but I think exposing her body to someone without her consent is taking it too far. I certainly hope this friend can be trusted not to disseminate these pictures or use them for any reason. I'm sure the fact that I am a woman colors my judgement on this as well but if someone did that to me, I wouldn't care what I'd done to them, I'd be livid.


Affairs are always messy and have terrible consequences usually for everyone who is involved, and sadly she is not innocent.


----------



## notmyjamie

TJW said:


> Ok. I'll say it. She deserves it....
> 
> But the real question is whether or not SHE says that she deserves it. If she does, there is then hope for reconciliation in this marriage. She may be livid as a knee-jerk reaction, but if she, over time, becomes aware that there are consequences of her choices, and she must accept and own them, then her appropriation of her husband's forgiveness, and God's, can become effectual in her life.


It is more important what she will feel about it not what I feel about it that is true. 

But I would think the consequences of her actions would be that she loses her husband and family and the life she has rebuilt in the last 9 years, not that her naked/sexual/porn pictures are given to another man without her permission. That should never be the consequence of anything as it's a huge violation of her privacy. And quite honestly, it's illegal In some places for him to have given those to someone else. I have no idea where he lives, but 41 states in the US have laws against it. If she wanted to, she could make his life very difficult for this..




faithfulman said:


> Idkaname wasn't sharing around her pictures for amusement, his friend was investigating to get an idea of the extent of her disgraceful behavior and betrayal, which was huge.
> 
> The concern here should be with the piece of garbage who likes to **** married women having custody of these pics, not the PI.
> 
> However, yes, the PI has seen her ****ing and whatever else she was doing. Yes, it is possible they could get out further.
> 
> Tough ****! That's the risk you run when you make sleazy adultery porn.



If she were to file a complaint against him, the answer from law enforcement would probably not be tough ****. It doesn't matter why he shared them. I get that he was just trying to get as much information as possible, I really do. But that's her naked body he shared without her permission. He knew exactly what kind of photos were going to be recovered. It wasn't done by accident. That could get very ugly, very fast for him. He gets the wrong judge and he gets labeled a sex offender. This stuff is taken seriously now. And if you think I'm being dramatic, I'm not. My 15yo daughter goes to school with a 14yo sex offender. He shared a topless photo a girl in school sent him. He will be a sex offender his entire life now. It's horrible. And yes, it is a risk when you allow pictures like that to be taken, but she could still make a huge issue out of it. If she gets mad enough things will take a very nasty turn. OP has enough troubles in his life right now without adding anything else. THAT's what I'm trying to say. OP should get those damn pictures back as soon as possible and pray nothing has been done with them. 

I agree that the OM is a complete POS who preyed on her at the most vulnerable time in her life. I think his new wife should know that he is capable of such a thing so she can keep an eye out for suspicious behavior. Maybe he's put that part of his life behind him now that's he's married, but I doubt it.


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> Affairs are always messy and have terrible consequences usually for everyone who is involved, and sadly she is not innocent.


Agree 100%, she is not innocent. See my last post. I'm trying to help OP, not defend his WW. He can take my advice or not. Maybe she won't think anything of it. But many, many, many women would...or if she doesn't, her father might, or a friend who starts putting it in her ear that what he's done is illegal. And then he's got way more problems on his plate than he already has. This stuff is no joke anymore. People need to be careful.


----------



## idkaname

I won't take drastic action while my WW is pregnant. I need space but that's about it. I'm not going to yell at her, kick her out or demand a divorce right now. She chose to go to her parents. We didn't fight about it. I would like to ask her some more questions but I'm torn between not wanting to stress her out and wanting to get it out of the way before the baby comes. The week of labour and after delivery won't be the time to talk about anything. She has physically and emotionally rough recoveries so I don't know when the pregnancy card no longer applies.

If I inform my WW, she will be humiliated that my friend has seen those pictures and videos. Sorry but that's the price to pay. I probably won't even tell her. He doesn't have copies saved for personal use. I'm more angry about the pictures than anything else. My WW prided herself on me being the only guy she had been intimate with and the only guy who had seen her naked. She distinguished between those facts. Both of those are now untrue and she let the OM have pictures and video to go back and look again and again. Now the OM can look at her whenever he wants or share them with anyone. They go work together and he needs no imagination to know what is under the scrubs.

My father in law would probably murder me if I shared the pictures. I didn't know what would be found. My WW is the one who put them there.


----------



## SecondWind

My opinion has been all over the place reading your thread. The thing that stands out is that after you quit drinking and after she ended her affair both of you went to marriage counseling for two years and she didn't divulge that she had an affair in those sessions.


----------



## Adelais

SecondWind said:


> My opinion has been all over the place reading your thread. The thing that stands out is that after you quit drinking and after she ended her affair both of you went to marriage counseling for two years and she didn't divulge that she had an affair in those sessions.


I've had a similar reaction to this thread. I'm sure your drinking came up and you were honest about it, while being raked over the coals. She just sat there and watched you be vulnerable for the sake of improving the marriage, while knowing she did something just as bad, but she kept quiet.

I tend to think that the affair went just the way she says it went. It was 6 months long, and ended. But her deception during those 2 years of marriage counseling are hard to get past (for me.)

Did she have a separate IC who told her to not tell you about the affair or was she also seeing the MC for IC?


----------



## idkaname

Her excuse is the other therapist told her not to say anything, and if she said anything I would have divorced her, walked away without kids, and she couldn't lose anyone else. 

We each had an individual therapist and marriage counsellor. Three all together.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> Agree 100%, she is not innocent. See my last post. I'm trying to help OP, not defend his WW. He can take my advice or not. Maybe she won't think anything of it. But many, many, many women would...or if she doesn't, her father might, or a friend who starts putting it in her ear that what he's done is illegal. And then he's got way more problems on his plate than he already has. This stuff is no joke anymore. People need to be careful.


I don't think there is much to worry about. It's about intent, he shared the phone with a PI to get information, very common. The PI found sexual pictures graphic in nature, the PI didn't share them with anyone he just reported on them. Now if he downloaded them and has them in his possession he SHOULD get in trouble. But assuming he gets the phone back and they stay on the phone that is where it will end. It's not illegal to look at pictures on a phone, it's not child porn. The husband probably has as much right to the phone a she does under the law. 

Overall there will be no prosecution here. It's different then the kid, one those picture are of a minor. What the PI or OP could get in trouble for is revenge porn, but that involves sharing it on a public website I think. This is really no different then a guy showing pictures he has of his girlfriend. It's wrong but no one is going to prosecute it. Besides she should probably understand that lots of people have probably seen those pictures. Most likely male work colleagues who are friends with this boyfriend of hers she had an affair with. That's what guys like this do, those pictures are a trophy, people show off their trophies. That should be her worry, though not sure she can do anything about it. Will she be embarrassed, probably. We have heard stories where PI actually film couples having sex, no PI is ever charged for that. 

I get it, it sucks for her, she is probably going to feel this way a lot.


----------



## faithfulman

notmyjamie said:


> It is more important what she will feel about it not what I feel about it that is true.
> 
> But I would think the consequences of her actions would be that she loses her husband and family and the life she has rebuilt in the last 9 years, not that her naked/sexual/porn pictures are given to another man without her permission. That should never be the consequence of anything as it's a huge violation of her privacy. And quite honestly, it's illegal In some places for him to have given those to someone else. I have no idea where he lives, but 41 states in the US have laws against it. If she wanted to, she could make his life very difficult for this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> If she were to file a complaint against him, the answer from law enforcement would probably not be tough ****. *It doesn't matter why he shared them. I get that he was just trying to get as much information as possible, I really do. But that's her naked body he shared without her permission. He knew exactly what kind of photos were going to be recovered. It wasn't done by accident. That could get very ugly, very fast for him. He gets the wrong judge and he gets labeled a sex offender. This stuff is taken seriously now. And if you think I'm being dramatic, I'm not. My 15yo daughter goes to school with a 14yo sex offender. He shared a topless photo a girl in school sent him. He will be a sex offender his entire life now. It's horrible. And yes, it is a risk when you allow pictures like that to be taken, but she could still make a huge issue out of it. If she gets mad enough things will take a very nasty turn. OP has enough troubles in his life right now without adding anything else. THAT's what I'm trying to say. OP should get those damn pictures back as soon as possible and pray nothing has been done with them.
> 
> I agree that the OM is a complete POS who preyed on her at the most vulnerable time in her life. I think his new wife should know that he is capable of such a thing so she can keep an eye out for suspicious behavior. Maybe he's put that part of his life behind him now that's he's married, but I doubt it.


I would lay money that you are wrong about that. 

I do believe you have confused the difference between idkaname publishing her naked photos vs. having a professional recover whatever he could find to confirm her utter lack of morals. 

Perhaps you are unaware that private investigators take pictures of adulterous spouses "in the act" all the time, recover pictures and videos just like this, all the time.

And nobody gets prosecuted for it. 

***

The reason that 14 year old in your daughter's school is a registered sex offender has to do with the picture being of a minor. 

It is a well-known phenomena of kids getting in trouble with children getting in legal trouble for wedging because they run afoul of underage indecency laws. 

***

I keep finding myself disturbed at the abundance of concern for the person who engaged in such filthy behavior, such utter betrayal, and callous lying. 

Yes, she lost her children. So did idkaname!

Try and remember who the victim actually is, and who did the victimizing.


----------



## notmyjamie

idkaname said:


> My father in law would probably murder me if I shared the pictures. I didn't know what would be found. My WW is the one who put them there.


That's a cop out and won't help you if she decides to press charges against you. By having your friend recover them and look at them you did share them and you knew exactly what kind of pictures would be found or you'd have had no reason to have him go looking for them. Please, your wife has lied to you enough...don't lie to yourself. And your post makes it sound like having him see the photos was a type of revenge for what she's done. And while I understand the desire on your part, the laws against this type of thing are called Anti Revenge Porn laws and they are taken very seriously.

As I said before, you can do what you like, take my advice or not, but if I were you, I'd pray very hard neither your wife nor your FIL ever hear that your friend had access to those pictures.


----------



## TDSC60

idkaname said:


> Her excuse is the other therapist told her not to say anything, and if she said anything I would have divorced her, walked away without kids, and she couldn't lose anyone else.
> 
> We each had an individual therapist and marriage counsellor. Three all together.


So she says she was advised to withhold the truth and by doing so, took any choice away from you. If she was so afraid of loosing you - why did she choose to guarantee it by having an affair knowing you would leave if you found out?

Basically she made the decision to remain married for her own selfish reasons after she had had her fun with the AP. And without your knowledge. Evil.

After being denied the truth for so long, how can you ever trust a word she says. She has proven she has no problem keeping secrets for only her benefit, no matter how they hurt you.


----------



## Marc878

Most cheaters unless it's an exit affair think they'll never get caught. 

The betrayed spouse for the most part is not in the thoughts during an affair. It trumps everything.

In the aftermath they're just sorry they got caught at least upfront.


----------



## notmyjamie

faithfulman said:


> I keep finding myself disturbed at the abundance of concern for the person who engaged in such filthy behavior, such utter betrayal, and callous lying.
> 
> My concern is for him. I thought I made that clear.
> 
> Yes, she lost her children. So did idkaname!
> 
> I was talking about his living children. If a divorce happens she won't get full custody.
> 
> Try and remember who the victim actually is, and who did the victimizing.
> 
> I do, which is why I was concerned for him and what might happen if she presses charges. All it takes is one judge who wants to make an example and he is screwed.
> 
> I hope you're right about it not being as concerning as I am worried about. But after what happened in my town, I think all of this kind of stuff needs to be taken more seriously.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> I won't take drastic action while my WW is pregnant. I need space but that's about it. I'm not going to yell at her, kick her out or demand a divorce right now. She chose to go to her parents. We didn't fight about it. I would like to ask her some more questions but I'm torn between not wanting to stress her out and wanting to get it out of the way before the baby comes. The week of labour and after delivery won't be the time to talk about anything. She has physically and emotionally rough recoveries so I don't know when the pregnancy card no longer applies.
> 
> If I inform my WW, she will be humiliated that my friend has seen those pictures and videos. Sorry but that's the price to pay. I probably won't even tell her. He doesn't have copies saved for personal use. I'm more angry about the pictures than anything else. My WW prided herself on me being the only guy she had been intimate with and the only guy who had seen her naked. She distinguished between those facts. Both of those are now untrue and she let the OM have pictures and video to go back and look again and again. Now the OM can look at her whenever he wants or share them with anyone. They go work together and he needs no imagination to know what is under the scrubs.
> 
> My father in law would probably murder me if I shared the pictures. I didn't know what would be found. My WW is the one who put them there.


Is she YOUR only one? Did she still pretend an lie to you about that after the affair?


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> Her excuse is the other therapist told her not to say anything, and if she said anything I would have divorced her, walked away without kids, and she couldn't lose anyone else.
> 
> We each had an individual therapist and marriage counsellor. Three all together.


Typical cheater-brain.

Losing you is a reason for her to lie, but not a reason to refrain from cheating.


----------



## sokillme

> That's a cop out and won't help you if she decides to press charges against you. By having your friend recover them and look at them you did share them and you knew exactly what kind of pictures would be found or you'd have had no reason to have him go looking for them. Please, your wife has lied to you enough...don't lie to yourself. And your post makes it sound like having him see the photos was a type of revenge for what she's done. And while I understand the desire on your part, the laws against this type of thing are called Anti Revenge Porn laws and they are taken very seriously.
> 
> As I said before, you can do what you like, take my advice or not, but if I were you, I'd pray very hard neither your wife nor your FIL ever hear that your friend had access to those pictures.


What are they going to charge him for? It his phone so it's his pictures, and since they are married it's considered his phone. Yes I am almost positive that is how it works, because I have read threads about it. It's only when it's made public is there trouble. Besides he didn't give the guy the photos he had the guy do a forensic exam of the phone, the pictures were there. He can say he had no idea they would be there or not. He is not going to get charged for that. It's not like we haven't read this story 100s of times. No PI was charged. 

You keep adding intent where there was none.


----------



## Marc878

idkaname said:


> I won't take drastic action while my WW is pregnant. I need space but that's about it. I'm not going to yell at her, kick her out or demand a divorce right now. She chose to go to her parents. We didn't fight about it. I would like to ask her some more questions but I'm torn between not wanting to stress her out and wanting to get it out of the way before the baby comes. The week of labour and after delivery won't be the time to talk about anything. She has physically and emotionally rough recoveries so I don't know when the pregnancy card no longer applies.
> 
> I would not push it at this time. Emotions can have an effect on pregnancy
> 
> If I inform my WW, she will be humiliated that my friend has seen those pictures and videos. Sorry but that's the price to pay. I probably won't even tell her. He doesn't have copies saved for personal use. I'm more angry about the pictures than anything else. My WW prided herself on me being the only guy she had been intimate with and the only guy who had seen her naked. She distinguished between those facts. Both of those are now untrue and she let the OM have pictures and video to go back and look again and again. Now the OM can look at her whenever he wants or share them with anyone. They go work together and he needs no imagination to know what is under the scrubs.
> 
> I wouldn't give it a second thought. The privacy to cheat clause is a mute point. It doesn't exist
> 
> My father in law would probably murder me if I shared the pictures. I didn't know what would be found. My WW is the one who put them there.


She said it was only sex as if that somehow makes it better but did their texting verify that?
Odd that the data has been there 9 years and not overwritten?


----------



## notmyjamie

sokillme said:


> What are they going to charge him for? It his phone so it's his pictures. Yes I am almost positive that is how it works, because I have read threads about it. It's only when it's made public is there trouble. Besides he didn't give the guy the photos he had the guy do a forensic exam of the phone, the pictures were there. He can say he had no idea they would be there or not. He is not going to get charged for that.
> 
> You keep adding intent where there was none.


Isn't it her phone? I highly doubt those pictures would have been on his phone. And I'm done, I was worried for him, now I'm not. What will be will be. I'm hoping you're right and nothing legally can happen to him for it.


----------



## Marc878

notmyjamie said:


> That's a cop out and won't help you if she decides to press charges against you. By having your friend recover them and look at them you did share them and you knew exactly what kind of pictures would be found or you'd have had no reason to have him go looking for them. Please, your wife has lied to you enough...don't lie to yourself. And your post makes it sound like having him see the photos was a type of revenge for what she's done. And while I understand the desire on your part, the laws against this type of thing are called Anti Revenge Porn laws and they are taken very seriously.
> 
> As I said before, you can do what you like, take my advice or not, but if I were you, I'd pray very hard neither your wife nor your FIL ever hear that your friend had access to those pictures.


His wife was an adult sending porn to her affair partner. His PI recovered them. They weren't published anywhere. Your comments have zero merit.

Your thoughts are what a wayward would use. Just blamshifting


----------



## Marc878

What's his wife gonna do? 

Take her porn pics into court (let everyone examin the evidence) and say what? 

These pics were exclusively for my boyfriend I cheated with and my husband hired a PI who recovered them. They have invaded my privacy to have an affair and I want to press charges.

Cool beans


----------



## idkaname

Marc878 said:


> She said it was only sex as if that somehow makes it better but did their texting verify that?
> Odd that the data has been there 9 years and not overwritten?


All of the texts were work related and there was none from the affair time period. The pictures were found on an old device. We upgrade every two years. My friend said some of the data may be gone for good.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> Is she YOUR only one? Did she still pretend an lie to you about that after the affair?


No she is not my only one. I had colourful teenage years. 

She continued to say I'm her only one.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marc878 said:


> His wife was an adult sending porn to her affair partner. His PI recovered them. They weren't published anywhere. Your comments have zero merit.
> 
> Your thoughts are what a wayward would use. Just blamshifting


As I've stated MULTIPLE times, I was worried about HIM. Now I don't give a ****. Jesus...I saw someone get screwed by the courts over something similar in my town. Adultery had nothing to do with it. I'm not a ****ing wayward and never had been. Maybe I was worried for nothing but that doesn't make me an *******.

But as I said, I just don't give a **** anymore.


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

I find the claim just for sex a bit difficult to believe, generally workplace affairs start out as emotional attachments, which lead into emotional affairs and then physical affairs. It's almost like a long courtship. 

Your friend seeing the photos is the least of her worries the OM may have saved them with who knows who.

Get the names of the other married women he has had affairs with, then dime OM out to BHs perhaps they can do some of your work for you.


----------



## idkaname

It's not revenge porn. I didn't send out her pictures for revenge. A licensed PI found them while doing his job. On devices she left in my possession.


----------



## mickybill

notmyjamie said:


> That's a cop out and won't help you if she decides to press charges against you. By having your friend recover them and look at them you did share them and you knew exactly what kind of pictures would be found or you'd have had no reason to have him go looking for them. Please, your wife has lied to you enough...don't lie to yourself. And your post makes it sound like having him see the photos was a type of revenge for what she's done. And while I understand the desire on your part, the laws against this type of thing are called Anti Revenge Porn laws and they are taken very seriously.
> 
> As I said before, you can do what you like, take my advice or not, but if I were you, I'd pray very hard neither your wife nor your FIL ever hear that your friend had access to those pictures.


I am not a lawyer but if the PI is a legit licensed PI then seeing the photos may be part of an investigation. 
If OTOH the PI is not legit and just a friend who is good at snooping then there maybe a problem.


----------



## faithfulman

notmyjamie said:


> As I've stated MULTIPLE times, I was worried about HIM. Now I don't give a ****. Jesus...I saw someone get screwed by the courts over something similar in my town. Adultery had nothing to do with it. I'm not a ****ing wayward and never had been. Maybe I was worried for nothing but that doesn't make me an *******.
> 
> But as I said, I just don't give a **** anymore.



The reason everybody is taking the same position that you are concerned about her is the post where you expressed how it was upsetting that her privacy was being violated. 

As people read there will likely be similar reactions, because your concern for him is expressed as if he was doing something bad to his wife by having a PI verify her treachery, when he isn't doing anything wrong.


----------



## SunCMars

wilson said:


> *The manner in which she chose to deal with the grief is hard to comprehend* regardless of whether she was having an affair or not. At that time to turn to sex after such an emotionally traumatic event does not seem normal to me. I'm sure some people do it, but I would have trouble relating to the motivation of such a person. Turn to drugs and alcohol to numb the pain? Sure, totally understandable. Ignore your spouse to go solo hiking for several months? Sure, totally understandable. Have sex with some coworker? Not understanding that. Having an affair? Not understanding that.
> 
> So not only do you have to think about if you want to rebuild with someone who would have an affair, but also someone who would have an affair under those circumstances. There are times when we can understand the motivation for having an affair, and in those cases it can make reconciliation a bit more straightforward. But here it seems the whole thing is so inappropriate that it's going to add a lot more difficulty. You'll have to come to terms with her being a cheater, and also come to terms with her turning to cheating when all that was going on.


Oh, Lord....

Fate killed her child.

The death of her wombs fruit caused her mind to spin out of control, to soar, to do hard banks.
Her aerial rudder, the one that steers one from wrong... blew off.

She lost her mind and headed for Earth, to kill off whatever was left of her thinking. 
She hated what happened, so much, she drowned herself, not with cheap whiskey, but with rot-gut grief.
She punished herself for yet living.
She let a man, a co-worker lay her out, senseless and naked, doing her with his filthy and lewd acts.
She went mad with grief, having lost all sense of propriety.

Death by shame.
Death in the eyes of all she held dear.

She committed her mind to death, to suicide, by debauchery.
She submitted her body into the hands of the Devil.

She shook her fist in the face of the ONE GOD!

Aye!





[THM]- The Typist I


----------



## notmyjamie

mickybill said:


> I am not a lawyer but if the PI is a legit licensed PI then seeing the photos may be part of an investigation.
> If OTOH the PI is not legit and just a friend who is good at snooping then there maybe a problem.


And as he's posted it was a friend who was good at getting stuff off the phone, that led me to believe it was not a PI. Hence, my conclusion that it might be a problem he should be concerned about.


----------



## idkaname

TAMAT said:


> IDK,
> 
> I find the claim just for sex a bit difficult to believe, generally workplace affairs start out as emotional attachments, which lead into emotional affairs and then physical affairs. It's almost like a long courtship.
> 
> Your friend seeing the photos is the least of her worries the OM may have saved them with who knows who.
> 
> Get the names of the other married women he has had affairs with, then dime OM out to BHs perhaps they can do some of your work for you.


I have trouble believing it was only sex and no emotion. She couldn't have shown up at work one day and jumped his bones. I want to ask her when, how and why it started (and ended) in detail. 

Does the emotional foreplay usually last weeks or months? 

My WW claims the OM deleted the pictures but either of them could be lying. If he sleeps with married women and grieving women sharing intimate pictures is probably up his alley. Many people seeing my WW naked makes her significantly more unattractive and undesirable to me now.


----------



## sokillme

notmyjamie said:


> Isn't it her phone? I highly doubt those pictures would have been on his phone. And I'm done, I was worried for him, now I'm not. What will be will be. I'm hoping you're right and nothing legally can happen to him for it.


I believe you heart is in the right place, but they are married so to the law his phone is her phone because of that. See how easily it is for us to dispute all of this and make it seem very uncertain? That is exactly why no one is going to prosecute. Besides do you think she wants it out there about her pictures with another man being on the phone? That will just cause her and her entire family more embarrassment. 

Nothings is going to happen but I would make my PI friend promise to destroy the photos if he even downloaded them.


----------



## idkaname

notmyjamie said:


> And as he's posted it was a friend who was good at getting stuff off the phone, that led me to believe it was not a PI. Hence, my conclusion that it might be a problem he should be concerned about.


Sorry for any confusion. It was a friend of mine who is a licensed PI. He wouldn't do anything to get himself or me in trouble. He got the data from each device, saved it in one spot for me, reported what was found and gave it to me. He didn't save anything for his own use.


----------



## notmyjamie

faithfulman said:


> The reason everybody is taking the same position that you are concerned about her is the post where you expressed how it was upsetting that her privacy was being violated.
> 
> A man she knows socially seeing pictures like that will feel like an invasion of her privacy to her I'd imagine, and the OP's intention won't change that for her. Which may make reconciliation harder if that's the route he chooses.
> 
> As people read there will likely be similar reactions, because your concern for him is expressed as if he was doing something bad to his wife by having a PI verify her treachery, when he isn't doing anything wrong.
> 
> And again, his posts made it sound like it was just a friend who was good at getting stuff off the phone. If I misunderstood and he's really a PI then I'd say I guess you're right and I worried for nothing. But, next time hire a PI your wife doesn't know socially. Because what's gonna happen if they reconcile? Will this friend still get invited to parties and such? Will OP tell his wife this guy has seen her naked and in compromising positions or keep it a secret? That's starting reconciliation off on the wrong foot, which, as we've learned doesn't work.
> 
> I'm sorry I ever dared to worry about him. I swear, I'll never do it again.


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

You wrote, *Does the emotional foreplay usually last weeks or months? [\B]

With two women where I work now, it's more like they saw me every day and became emotionally attached aided by their being emotionally distant from their SOs\Hs.

It seems like it took a year or two to develop but I wasn't trying, I ended up giving both of them relationship advice which they Thanked me for. 

I I were a OM type I would have amplified it by paying complements and talking their SOs down, so I would guess months if the OM is actively setting the WW up for a fall.*


----------



## sokillme

Like I said I am willing to bet money this isn't the only person she knows at least superficial who has seen her naked. I would also bet money the pics are on the internet somewhere. That is this kind of guys MO, she is a trophy to him, nothing more. Unfortunately women like her don't get that affairs with married women lfor these guys are just like hunting. When you hunt you want to show off your catch.


----------



## stillthinking

As someone who has known PI's personally and worked with them:

They are Professionals.
They are licensed by their local state/provincial government. 
Laws establishing how they can go about doing their work, and how the evidence they collect is handled, is codified in law.
They must adhere to a code of conduct and ethics or else they risk losing their license.

The fact that the OP is friends with the PI means nothing. The PI will still conduct himself in a professional manner. 

Anyone really think this guy would risk his livelihood over some amateur porn pics of his friends wife? Just because that type of narrative serves as the plot line for a Lifetime Original Movie, does not mean it actually happens.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> Like I said I am willing to bet money this isn't the only person she knows at least superficial who has seen her naked. I would also bet money the pics are on the internet somewhere. That is this kind of guys MO, she is a trophy to him, nothing more. Unfortunately women like her don't get that affairs with married women lfor these guys are just like hunting. When you hunt you want to show off your catch.


Reading this just destroyed any feelings I had left for her.


----------



## faithfulman

notmyjamie said:


> But, next time hire a PI your wife doesn't know socially. Because what's gonna happen if they reconcile? Will this friend still get invited to parties and such? Will OP tell his wife this guy has seen her naked and in compromising positions or keep it a secret? That's starting reconciliation off on the wrong foot, which, as we've learned doesn't work.


I'm with you. Next time his wife cheats on him and lets another man take pictures and videos of her while she is ****ing him, idkaname should be more thoughtful and respectful of her modesty and privacy. I mean, has he no decency!?!? 

Or something like that I guess....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

idkaname said:


> It's not revenge porn. I didn't send out her pictures for revenge. *A licensed PI found them while doing his job. *On devices she left in my possession.


Can we stop the derail now? 

I am going to advise you to stop digging and questioning, unless you are searching for a longer connection or they are still having sex.


You are now pain shopping. if you need time take it, but love or not is just another way to remain in limbo. She cheated, now you have proof and her feelings about the man do not change the act.


----------



## notmyjamie

faithfulman said:


> I'm with you. Next time his wife cheats on him and lets another man take pictures and videos of her while she is ****ing him, idkaname should be more thoughtful and respectful of her modesty and privacy. I mean, has he no decency!?!?
> 
> Or something like that I guess....


That's not at all what I meant.


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> Reading this just destroyed any feelings I had left for her.


I'm sorry I didn't say that to upset you. Though I could have had more tact and I should remind myself that. Unfortunately the truth is there is probably going to be many more times you feel like this. You are going to have to figure out where you are after all of this. 

Infidelity always leads to death. Death of a marriage, death of feelings, death of self respect (hers not yours). It's not like the movies.


----------



## TJW

idkaname said:


> Reading this just destroyed any feelings I had left for her.


I'm so sorry and sad that you find yourself here, in the club that none of us wanted to join. Understanding just how utterly reprehensible, lustful, and selfish our WSs actions were is what made some of us understand that our position had to be forgiveness, but not reconciliation.

You, and only you, can make this decision for yourself. It was a pretty easy one for me, actually. It became so crystal-clear how completely disrespected I was by her.
It was also crystal-clear how completely unrepentant she was for any of it.

I tried to keep it together. No matter how fast I glued and cemented pieces back into place, they would be torn down by the next "trickle" and the next "trickle" and the self-justification, the blame-shifting, the gaslighting. I reached an endpoint beyond which there was no possible return. And, yes, any feelings I had were completely gone. I had more desire for a girl friend with an air valve than for my wife.


----------



## TJW

SunCMars said:


> She shook her fist in the face of the ONE GOD!


Yes. God is, however, a unique Being. God not only forgives our sin, but He forgets our sin. Those of us who He created are given no ability to forget, and we are only given ability to forgive through His help, His grace, His wisdom, and His love.

Shaking her fist in God's face will be forgiven, and forgotten, by God. This woman will be justified by God, just as if she had never done this. God will do this perfectly, with no error.

Her husband will not be like God in this respect. He will have to seek God on a continual basis in order to extend forgiveness. And, he will fall short of being God. He will never forget..... God will give him the ability to forgive, but God will not give him the ability to forget. Her husband will have to seek wisdom and discernment as to how "safe" and "loved" he can return to with his wife.


----------



## MattMatt

faithfulman said:


> No, it really isn't possible she didn't know, because:
> 
> 1) The picture was in her device. By the way, you can check the metadata to find out more information about the picture, including exactly when it was taken, what device it was taken on, and even the coordinates/location the photo was shot.
> 
> This is called "EXIF Data" let me know if you want more info.
> 
> 2) There was more porn. This was not an accident or a surprise. She knew it was happening and she willingly participated, more than once.



If you check out the relevant post from idkaname you'll read: "the image came up on amazon photo memories". 



> Amazon photos offers free online storage to Prime members, who can save and share unlimited photos on desktop, mobile, tablet


----------



## Marc878

sokillme said:


> Like I said I am willing to bet money this isn't the only person she knows at least superficial who has seen her naked. I would also bet money the pics are on the internet somewhere. That is this kind of guys MO, she is a trophy to him, nothing more. Unfortunately women like her don't get that affairs with married women lfor these guys are just like hunting. When you hunt you want to show off your catch.


Hes a cheater so you can't believe anything he says. I doubt he's deleted his stash. Why would he? Your wife knew he had affairs with other married women but chose that route herself. Once porn is created and given away you have zero control over it.

I know one wayward whos AP showed her pics of his other women (married) and found out later he was showing her off as well. Her AP had shown them to a friend of hers. That's why they want the trophies.

Unfortunately that's where you are. There is nothing you can do now. Just hope they don't turn up in the future. Once that cats out of the bag no one can ever put it back in.

She put her trust in a cheater to delete them? How laughable is that.

Sorry man


----------



## faithfulman

MattMatt said:


> Actually, you are wrong. The picture was *not* on her device.
> 
> If you check out the relevant post from idkaname you'll read: "the image came up on amazon photo memories".


The picture was _found_ on Amazon photos - it got to Amazon photos by accidental upload from her device, just the same way people accidentally upload their pics to iCloud - like I said she got sloppy and lost control of the photo. It is very unlikely that she uploaded the photo to Amazon photos 8 years ago when the service was first launched. 

Secondly, there was more cheating porn found on her devices.


----------



## scaredlion

There is a lot of flack about her continuing to work where the AP works. First, let me say that in the hundreds and hundreds of post I have read, where the woman cheats, and still works with the AP, everyone is always adamant and demanding that she quit her job immediately. Divorce her if she doesn't because she's still in the affair. But, in the same situation, where the man cheats and still works with the AP, I very rarely, if ever, hear, "make him quit his job". In my view, this is a big double standard. A man on another site told me that this was not true. I ask him for five examples where it was recommended the man quit his job. I never did get the examples. There are many reasons she should keep her job. (1) It's her dream job. Making her quit will eventually cause resentment. (2) Her job contributes much to the family financial wellbeing. (3) When a woman cuts her emotional or physical connection with someone she can see that person everyday and not have anything to do with them unless it is absolutely necessary. That person is just there and nothing else. (most men can't do this because they typically have more of an aggressive nature. when it comes to emotions, men and women are not wired the same way. that's something most men can't understand) (4) If you divorce her she will need her job to support herself. Unless , of course, the man is willing to make up the difference in alimony. (5) If she is prone to continue cheating with the AP, making her quit her job or move to another job is not going to stop the affair. Besides, working with the former AP, makes it easier to see what is happening than making her go somewhere else where you don't have any ideal who she is working with or what she is doing. If the affair is ongoing, making her quit her job just takes the affair further underground. There is also much said about her not telling of her affair when he discussed his year of drinking and emotional disconnection. She was told by her therapist to not tell. (I have also observed that most posters recommend IC, but only if they agree with the therapist recommendation. Therapist should be vented very closely before engaging with them.) I would be willing to bet that if he had been told by a therapist that during MC he was not to discuss his drinking and disconnection. He would have gladly kept silent. This does not take away, that what she did was terrible. In her grief, and being abandoned by the one who should have been there for her and her for him, she turned to someone else. The POS AP only wanted sex. He found a vulnerable woman, at a very low point in her life, who was grieving and not thinking straight, and he gave her the sympathy and emotional support that she should have been getting from her husband. Everything he said was a lie and aimed at having sex with her. Idkaname found his solace in the bottom of a bottle and disconnecting from his wife. No, he didn't cheat but he paved the road for her. If the affair has been ongoing then it's time to divorce. No ands, ifs, or buts, get out. If it is something that happened and ended 9 years ago, after all you have been through, you can survive this. That is, if you loved her to begin with. Don't let the speculations of posters who say, this could have happened, or that could have happened, or she was or is doing this or that, influence the truth of what has happened in the last 9 years. First you have to find out what the truth is and not a mass of speculations. I do wish you well.


----------



## alte Dame

I could never get past this. Doing this while you were grieving the death of not just one, but two young children is such a complete and total mind**** that I believe I would have to divorce.

I've read the entire thread and know that you sank badly into a bottle in your grief, but even so, I believe I would divorce. The pain of this would not be surmountable if my cheating spouse stayed actively in my daily life as my supposed intimate partner.

Right now you have no good choices. Try to determine what the least bad choice is for you. DNA your kids. Polygraph your WW. Expose the OM. Insist she - finally - find another job. I would take all these steps for the sake of justice. Then I would divorce.

This is a heartbreaking circumstance. I'm very sorry for your pain.


----------



## MyRevelation

notmyjamie said:


> That's a cop out and won't help you if she decides to press charges against you. By having your friend recover them and look at them you did share them and you knew exactly what kind of pictures would be found or you'd have had no reason to have him go looking for them. Please, your wife has lied to you enough...don't lie to yourself. And your post makes it sound like having him see the photos was a type of revenge for what she's done. And while I understand the desire on your part, the laws against this type of thing are called Anti Revenge Porn laws and they are taken very seriously.
> 
> As I said before, you can do what you like, take my advice or not, but if I were you, I'd pray very hard neither your wife nor your FIL ever hear that your friend had access to those pictures.


Hells Fire ... give it up.

Quit trying to make the WW the victim.


----------



## MattMatt

@idkaname for clarification what was it about your wife's behaviour that made you realise you needed to instruct a PI?


----------



## Marc878

I wouldn't ask her to quit her job either. If OP decides to divorce it'll work in his best interest for her to have as much income as possible.

As far as OP pushing her to cheat. Nope, she made that decision all on her own. 

Drinking is never a good thing but who goes out and looks for a sexual affair afte the death of two kids?

It may have been 9 years ago for her but to OP it just happened yesterday. 

Looking for a fairy tale ending here is very remote. Thats a huge **** sandwich OP is gonna have to eat and no amount of mustard is gonna make it go down well.


----------



## [email protected]

She works with him! She's had a FWB for all those years!


----------



## NJ2

This will be an unpopular post.....I had an affair 25+ years ago- it was a horrible selfish thing to do. I went to a therapist who told me if I told my h it would be a selfish act that would cause him great pain. 

So I kept it to myself....till a few years ago when I came on here cuz I thought he was having an A (whole other story not necessary for my pov) and I got hit upside the head for being a hypocrite. So I told him- it was devastating to him even though it was so long ago. For him it was as if it just happened. I promised him honesty
With any details he wanted- he preferred not to know much. I told him I would do whatever he needed in order to establish trust again. Including tracking my phone , car, access to my email accounts...

I also volunteered
To do a poly to show it had never happened before or since

We went to MC and IC and I would say he trusts me 98% of the time- the odd time he will ask a question that shows he's feeling a little insecure but mostly- he trusts me to be truthful and open

If I were you - under the circumstances- I'd work through this as long as she was willing to do what it takes to make you secure again

People are stupid selfish a holes sometimes- particularly when they are escaping from terrible grief 

You picked the bottle - she picked something more devastating 

It was 9 years ago- see if you can work through it- see if with counseling there is hope to keep you and your family together 

If not- well you can make the decision to leave ....at any time-

I wish you peace of mind


----------



## Decorum

idkaname said:


> Her excuse is the other therapist told her not to say anything, and if she said anything I would have divorced her, walked away without kids, and she couldn't lose anyone else.


The irony of this is that you lost your daughters and the girl you married, while she took your choice away as to whether you wanted to remain with the person she had become.

I'm sure part of the reason you worked as hard as you did to rebuild your marriage was because you thought of her as "my girl" and that was just to precious to let go.

I doubt she realized what she was throwing away.


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> *I have trouble believing it was only sex and no emotion.* She couldn't have shown up at work one day and jumped his bones. I want to ask her when, how and why it started (and ended) in detail.
> 
> Does the emotional foreplay usually last weeks or months?
> 
> *My WW claims the OM deleted the pictures but either of them could be lying.* If he sleeps with married women and grieving women sharing intimate pictures is probably up his alley. Many people seeing my WW naked makes her significantly more unattractive and undesirable to me now.


That's the big thing that makes many TAMers not believe her story. Sure some women are able to have a sex only affair but the great majority are not. Consistently we've seen that even woman that start with the intention of having a sex only affair, will end up falling hard for the OM. 

You said she supposedly started about 6 weeks after the death of your 2nd child. That sound really callous and quick for a woman that supposedly only had sex with you. What's more believable was that the affair started, at least at the EA level before the deaths and that this POS took advantage by swooping in for some easy sex from a vulnerable woman. In a case like this, it is very likely that she became VERY attached to him. The OM moving away and probably starting to date a new woman, possibly his current wife, is what caused your wife to slowly start to try to return the marriage. 

She probably lost all attraction for you and hoped that marriage counseling would work some sort of magic but it wasn't until the birth of your current children that she reconnected with you.

I will say, that we normally say that if they're still working together, the affair is still on. In her case, with them working so closely together and them sharing so much intimacy, it really does seem like a bridge to far to believe that they have not occasionally hooked up. 

PS: How your wife can claim that she wasn't aware of the pic when there is freaking video that was texted to each other. How many times did she take out those pics to reminisce about old times?

PPS: Yes, let OM's wife know about this. You do NOT know if it was only 7 months or if it still was going on but goes dormant for a months at time. Like when she's pregnant then they start up again. 

Also, I would ask her has she become pregnant from him over the years and if she's ever had an abortion. Answering these hard questions doesn't need to wait. Yes it's stressful but if she's telling the truth, it should be a relief to get it out. If she's lying, then yes, it will be tough.


----------



## jsmart

Decorum said:


> The irony of this is that you lost your daughters and the girl you married, while she took your choice away as to whether you wanted to remain with the person she had become.
> 
> *I'm sure part of the reason you worked as hard as you did to rebuild your marriage was because you thought of her as "my girl" and that was just to precious to let go.
> 
> I doubt she realized what she was throwing away*.


WW Affairs where before the husband was her only lover, really are devastating. I'm sure that to OP, him being the only man that had her made her beyond precious. She through that away. I wonder if she continued to keep telling OP that he was her only man after the affair? i'm sure that OP would not have given counseling a chance if he knew what she did. He was tricked into continuing the marriage.

What makes it worse, is that not only did she have a sexual affair, she allowed this POS to film her. So not only did this guy have his wife, he also gets to have trophy pics and videos. This women knows he had this porn of her and yet she was around him like nothing. Which is why, I really doubt this was only 7 months. It just doesn't pass the smell test.

I really hope that OP goes to his wife to speak to her about his concerns. Waiting until after the birth, is sending her the message that he's cooling off. Answering his questions is not going to put her at risk.


----------



## idkaname

MattMatt said:


> @idkaname for clarification what was it about your wife's behaviour that made you realise you needed to instruct a PI?


I want something that will give me hope that all of my deceased, living and in utero children are mine. I can DNA test two of my daughter's. When my WW goes into labour I want to have some hope that baby is mine. I don't know how I'm going to help her through labour and delivery if I'm doubting if my son is mine. I will forever wonder about the paternity of the daughter's I lost. Aside from exhuming their remains there is no way to ever know if those were my children. I need something to give me hope. I want to trust my wife and I can't.

I don't trust my WW and want verification that she is telling me the truth. I don't know what to think. There are no clear signs of her having a current affair. She kept working with the OM and hid a big lie from me. She doesn't want to do a polygraph. I don't know what to trust.

I have a friend who is a PI. Hiring a PI was mentioned and my PI friend was happy to assist. He suggested letting him look rather than telling me what to do. I'm glad he made that suggestion. I have no desire to see pictures or videos of my wife with some other guy. Evidence was found but it was from the time period my WW claims the affair took place.

I wanted info without having to talk to my WW. That was for my benefit and hers. I don't want to cause her more stress right now but I also need to make sense of what is going on.

What has been dug up so far confirms her story and other facts. Or at least doesn't disprove it. I expected to find current pictures, texts, or emails indicating the affair is ongoing and found no such evidence.


----------



## idkaname

Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


She cheated, you have every reason to want your questions answered. 

The reason I say stop is, you will continually find new questions to be answered. You just added more to your brain. You do realize, these are the dirty details? Abortion, is a dirty detail. Loving him, is a dirty detail. Also, all you re doing is creating more reasons to have her possibly lie and cover up 
again.


That being said, if it is a trust issue and specific answers will cause you to leave, then do it. If it is better for the marriage to end instead of, one of you being miserable go for it.
Edit:
A polygraph should not be a choice.


----------



## SnowToArmPits

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


I think asking those questions is very reasonable, and also asking for a detailed timeline of her affair. My advice would be to wait though until after your wife delivers. Kudos for being considerate of your wife's pregnancy after your discovery, that was kind of you and mature.

I told your story to my wife, a career RN on a children's cancer ward. She told me she the loss of a child had been a very difficult experience for many marriages, including some that appeared very strong... the nurses would sometimes hear later the parents had divorced. 

You've been given good advice here, some posters are giving well-reasoned advice for divorce. However, I can see you reconciling your marriage. One of your last posts you wrote how could you ever trust your wife again. Well, how can your wife ever trust you not to drink again? And maybe through her affair she's wronged you more than you wronged her thru your drinking, do you need an equal scorecard here? I don't think so, I bet you could live with putting the past behind the both of you and reconciling. 

You're in a very tough spot. If you want to reconcile, it makes a lot of sense as others have said to do more digging to ensure the affair did end 9 years ago, and that your 2 soon 3 children were fathered by you. I'd try to keep pushing for a polygraph, as well. Knowing all this of course will help you make a better decision on the future of your marriage.

Look after yourself, and keep posting if you find it's helping.


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## sokillme

TJW said:


> Yes. God is, however, a unique Being. God not only forgives our sin, but He forgets our sin. Those of us who He created are given no ability to forget, and we are only given ability to forgive through His help, His grace, His wisdom, and His love.
> 
> Shaking her fist in God's face will be forgiven, and forgotten, by God. This woman will be justified by God, just as if she had never done this. God will do this perfectly, with no error.
> 
> Her husband will not be like God in this respect. He will have to seek God on a continual basis in order to extend forgiveness. And, he will fall short of being God. He will never forget..... God will give him the ability to forgive, but God will not give him the ability to forget. Her husband will have to seek wisdom and discernment as to how "safe" and "loved" he can return to with his wife.


This is beautiful.


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## sokillme

scaredlion said:


> There is a lot of flack about her continuing to work where the AP works. First, let me say that in the hundreds and hundreds of post I have read, where the woman cheats, and still works with the AP, everyone is always adamant and demanding that she quit her job immediately. Divorce her if she doesn't because she's still in the affair. But, in the same situation, where the man cheats and still works with the AP, I very rarely, if ever, hear, "make him quit his job". In my view, this is a big double standard. A man on another site told me that this was not true. I ask him for five examples where it was recommended the man quit his job. I never did get the examples. There are many reasons she should keep her job. (1) It's her dream job. Making her quit will eventually cause resentment. (2) Her job contributes much to the family financial wellbeing. (3) When a woman cuts her emotional or physical connection with someone she can see that person everyday and not have anything to do with them unless it is absolutely necessary. That person is just there and nothing else. (most men can't do this because they typically have more of an aggressive nature. when it comes to emotions, men and women are not wired the same way. that's something most men can't understand) (4) If you divorce her she will need her job to support herself. Unless , of course, the man is willing to make up the difference in alimony. (5) If she is prone to continue cheating with the AP, making her quit her job or move to another job is not going to stop the affair. Besides, working with the former AP, makes it easier to see what is happening than making her go somewhere else where you don't have any ideal who she is working with or what she is doing. If the affair is ongoing, making her quit her job just takes the affair further underground. There is also much said about her not telling of her affair when he discussed his year of drinking and emotional disconnection. She was told by her therapist to not tell. (I have also observed that most posters recommend IC, but only if they agree with the therapist recommendation. Therapist should be vented very closely before engaging with them.) I would be willing to bet that if he had been told by a therapist that during MC he was not to discuss his drinking and disconnection. He would have gladly kept silent. This does not take away, that what she did was terrible. In her grief, and being abandoned by the one who should have been there for her and her for him, she turned to someone else. The POS AP only wanted sex. He found a vulnerable woman, at a very low point in her life, who was grieving and not thinking straight, and he gave her the sympathy and emotional support that she should have been getting from her husband. Everything he said was a lie and aimed at having sex with her. Idkaname found his solace in the bottom of a bottle and disconnecting from his wife. No, he didn't cheat but he paved the road for her. If the affair has been ongoing then it's time to divorce. No ands, ifs, or buts, get out. If it is something that happened and ended 9 years ago, after all you have been through, you can survive this. That is, if you loved her to begin with. Don't let the speculations of posters who say, this could have happened, or that could have happened, or she was or is doing this or that, influence the truth of what has happened in the last 9 years. First you have to find out what the truth is and not a mass of speculations. I do wish you well.


Why don't you look at my post on another thread where I told the wife about 5 times to crush is balls in a vise, with pictures and video. Or the other one where I told the poor women who was being cheated on I wish that they still stoned cheaters. 

Find me a post where the guy is working with his AP and I will gladly tell her to make him quit his job, actually I will tell her to divorce him, no well actually I will tell her to take him for all he is worth and crush is balls in a vise. 

You don't read here enough.


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## faithfulman

scaredlion said:


> There is a lot of flack about her continuing to work where the AP works. First, let me say that in the hundreds and hundreds of post I have read, where the woman cheats, and still works with the AP, everyone is always adamant and demanding that she quit her job immediately. Divorce her if she doesn't because she's still in the affair. But, in the same situation, where the man cheats and still works with the AP, I very rarely, if ever, hear, "make him quit his job". In my view, this is a big double standard. A man on another site told me that this was not true. I ask him for five examples where it was recommended the man quit his job. I never did get the examples. There are many reasons she should keep her job. (1) It's her dream job. Making her quit will eventually cause resentment. (2) Her job contributes much to the family financial wellbeing. (3) When a woman cuts her emotional or physical connection with someone she can see that person everyday and not have anything to do with them unless it is absolutely necessary. That person is just there and nothing else. (most men can't do this because they typically have more of an aggressive nature. when it comes to emotions, men and women are not wired the same way. that's something most men can't understand) (4) If you divorce her she will need her job to support herself. Unless , of course, the man is willing to make up the difference in alimony. (5) If she is prone to continue cheating with the AP, making her quit her job or move to another job is not going to stop the affair. Besides, working with the former AP, makes it easier to see what is happening than making her go somewhere else where you don't have any ideal who she is working with or what she is doing. If the affair is ongoing, making her quit her job just takes the affair further underground. There is also much said about her not telling of her affair when he discussed his year of drinking and emotional disconnection. She was told by her therapist to not tell. (I have also observed that most posters recommend IC, but only if they agree with the therapist recommendation. Therapist should be vented very closely before engaging with them.) I would be willing to bet that if he had been told by a therapist that during MC he was not to discuss his drinking and disconnection. He would have gladly kept silent. This does not take away, that what she did was terrible. In her grief, and being abandoned by the one who should have been there for her and her for him, she turned to someone else. The POS AP only wanted sex. He found a vulnerable woman, at a very low point in her life, who was grieving and not thinking straight, and he gave her the sympathy and emotional support that she should have been getting from her husband. Everything he said was a lie and aimed at having sex with her. Idkaname found his solace in the bottom of a bottle and disconnecting from his wife. No, he didn't cheat but he paved the road for her. If the affair has been ongoing then it's time to divorce. No ands, ifs, or buts, get out. If it is something that happened and ended 9 years ago, after all you have been through, you can survive this. That is, if you loved her to begin with. Don't let the speculations of posters who say, this could have happened, or that could have happened, or she was or is doing this or that, influence the truth of what has happened in the last 9 years. First you have to find out what the truth is and not a mass of speculations. I do wish you well.


Use of paragraphs might get you more replies.


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## jsmart

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


I think that is a good idea. You can create a list of very important questions and bring over tonight. If she's loves you like she says, then she's a wreck and is constantly thinking about you. She should want to put your concerns to rest.

How are you supposed to wait for weeks to get your answers? This is something that can't wait. Besides knowing that your angry, let her know your heart is broken. Let her understand that this has devastated you. 

Ask her to provide a timeline of the affair. When it started? When it ended? How often were they hooking up. Did they occasionally still hook up? Did you love him? who ended the affair? Did they have a pregnancy scare? '

These are reasonable questions that a loving wife who wants to reassure her husband will be able to answer. You have to put these things to rest BEFORE she goes into labor. How are you going to be able to be there if you don't know this info.

If she wants to save the marriage, she needs to earn your trust.


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## sokillme

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


It's not a bad idea but you have no reason to believe her answers will be honest right now anyway. This is what you use the polygraph for. You can ask questions like besides what has been spoken about (7 month affair) have you ever had sexual relations with another man other then your husband?

This is probably one of those times when you have to have courage my friend. You have to face this right now for a while until the child is born. 

Understand though, there are never going to be answers that make this not hurt any less. Time is really the only thing that does this. Time and letting go. Understanding that this is NOT on you and you have no control over what she did. You know how that works. It works the same way with this. 

One other thing, I know you feel like their is no hope. I promise you there IS HOPE. Your path to happiness very well might not be this women any more but that doesn't mean you won't find happiness. You are a good man, you went through something terrible and for a year you faltered but you were man enough to correct that. You loved your wife with honor. Those things are priceless. THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOUR MARRIAGE A SUCCESS FOR YOU. You are not even 40 yet. If you don't stay with this women that doesn't mean you won't find that with someone else. Life, real life i about honor and courage. You have lived your life that way. Have faith in that. 

Mourn and wail. Cry and grieve. But then pick yourself up and go on. You are a Man, that is what we do. That is what we MUST do. 

For now, be around friends who will support you. Go exercise. Make sure you are eating and drinking. Try to sleep as best you can. 

It will get better.


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## Marc878

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? *Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair?* Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


This would be a mandatory polygraph question for me but first I think you need to search deep and ask yourself this question before anything else.

Can you accept this for the rest of your life and take her back ? In essence would you marry her now? Because that's what you're doing. Your old marriage has been killed off.

If you can't nothing else matters much. Many jump back in without thinking it over and become resentful and wish they hadn't which just causes you to live in misery.

Take your time and think this through carefully.


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## phillybeffandswiss

faithfulman said:


> Use of paragraphs might get you more replies.


I hope not, it is more of the "he paved the way" already hurting conversations in this thread.


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## Jus260

scaredlion said:


> There is a lot of flack about her continuing to work where the AP works. First, let me say that in the hundreds and hundreds of post I have read, where the woman cheats, and still works with the AP, everyone is always adamant and demanding that she quit her job immediately. Divorce her if she doesn't because she's still in the affair. *But, in the same situation, where the man cheats and still works with the AP, I very rarely, if ever, hear, "make him quit his job". In my view, this is a big double standard.*


Do you have any specific examples of this? I'm intrigued. For you to be this pissed off, there must be a lot of examples.


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## VFW

I know you are upset she had an affair and you have every right to be upset. However, I think that both of you should be focused on the birth of your child. There is plenty of time to get answers to all your questions, and you deserve these answers, but would suggest you put this on hold until after the impending birth. This affair is new to you, to her it happened a long time ago. It occurred at a low point in both of your life. I am not excusing her behavior, I am just suggesting that this is not a time for stress, in light of her previous deliveries. Test all the children as that can be done quietly. I pray that you and your family have a happy and baby boy and then as things settle you can readdress some of these issues.


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## jsmart

Focus on the birth of the current baby? How’s he supposed to do that if he has no proof that the affair ever stopped and if this POS fathered his 2 current kids? His wife’s answer do not carry water. 

IDK needs something concrete that he can believe. He just found out that not only was there 1 sex pic but that she actually made at least 1 porn video with this POS. 

She should be able to answer these questions and agree in a couple of months to do a poly to prove the answers but she’s saying no to a poly. 

I think a deep talk with her father is needed. iDK needs to lay everything out, including the porn and that she doesn’t want to take a poly. 

If this was really a 7 month sex affair, she should be desperate to prove it but instead she’s being evasive and suspicious as the IDK is wrong to not believe her. He had to prove himself through 2 years of counseling and therapy but his wife should just be believed because she’s pregnant?


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## EleGirl

What I've seen is that when then WS takes a polygraph, the BS is left with uncertainty they can never be sure that the results are accurate.

With a polygraph test, you would typically get a have 3-5 questions asked. The number depends on the person you hire to do the test and how much you pay. All questions are "yes" or "no" questions. Questions that ask for opinions, emotions, feelings or mindset, and hypothetical questions, are not used since the answers cannot be parsed into truthful or non-truthful categories. 

They measure and record several physiological indicators such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration, and skin conductivity while a person is asked and answers a series of questions.

If a subject believes their lie, it will show as the truth. If a person is nervous and tells the truth, I can be interpreted as a lie.

Three Fast Facts About Polygraph Accuracy

1. The American Polygraph Association claims that polygraphs are accurate over 90% of the time when properly administered and bias has been removed from the equation.

2. Critics of the polygraph system say that the evidence shows these lie detectors are only accurate about 65% of the time – hardly better than random chance.

3. The issue with polygraphs is that they can do a reasonably good job of finding lies, but offers a 50/50 chance of showing the operator that an honest person actually told a lie.​
*How to Cheat a Polygraph*


.


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## EleGirl

It's easy to settle the issue of whether or not he is the father of the two children. Go buy a DNA paternity test at a drug store, take it and send it in.


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## jsmart

4 perfect yes or no questions are:

Besides POS, Have you had sex with any other man ?

Did this affair start after the death of our 2nd baby?

Have you had any sexual relations with POS since the end of affair?

Did you tell POS that you loved him?


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## Dragan Jovanovic

You can Ask her questions,but I can tell you right now that all of her answers would be No,so she can minimise the betrail. So,only thing you can do right now is to DNA the kids,ant to tell your wife to go take the polygraph after birth, or to go find a divorce lauyer,and be firm about it. Make her understand that if she says no to polygraph,you will then know that there is more about the betrail than she is telling you and in that case you will divorce her. So,then you will know the real truth. Probably she will confess more when you tell her that.


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## GusPolinski

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


They still work together?

Seriously?

Might as well file first thing Monday — for as long as they’re in contact AT ALL, the affair is still on.

Everything else is smoke and noise.


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## Decorum

Is it possible to recover DNA from the daughters whom were lost from some mementos that were kept, like a hair brush?

Even if they cant distinguish between the two, just to show both are his would be helpful.


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## Decorum

idkaname said:


> Would it be a bad idea to send her a list of questions to answer? Is there any reason not to do that? I don't want the dirty details but I want the overall picture. Did she love him? Did she ever get pregnant by him and have an abortion? Did she ever have a pregnancy scare? Did she have feelings for him before having sex with him? Have they ever hooked up since ending the affair? Do they flirt at work? Some answers would be too much for me to accept.


You might ask her when she realized she was attracted to him? When they started flirting?

When did he first hit on her?

How often/when has he hit on her since?

Did he stop it because he got a girlfriend?


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## manfromlamancha

I (unfortunately) have been to far too many funerals in my time. Deaths of friends, parents, siblings, beloved relatives, and even colleagues. People mourn in different ways. Cultures mourn in different ways. For many of these, getting and staying drunk is almost a pre-requisite while others take care of them during this time.

Nothing, but nothing, is worse than the death of a child. It's true that people go off the deep end in such circumstances and again, normally have someone around them to catch them when they fall (and its not normally one of the spouses because both are grieving).

I also believe that there is a sliding scale of just how bad one can behave at the loss of a child. Starting with shutting everyone else out, drinking excessively, getting violent and so on until it reaches killing someone!

Screwing someone other than your spouse is somewhere in there and is probably worse than most of it stopping short of killing someone.

OP got very drunk. OP's wife screwed someone at work. OP stayed drunk for almost a year. OP's wife kept screwing someone at work and even had videos and pictures. OP saw a counsellor about it. It appears that OP's wife did something about it too. OP came clean. OP's wife did not (allegedly because the therapist told her not too - this really needs to be verified as it is standard practice for cheaters to say I didn't want to hurt you). OP stayed sober ever since. We don't know if OP's wife stopped screwing the POSOM. OP is visibly sober. We don't know if OP's wife stopped screwing the other man. OP stayed away from the bottle for all these years. OP's wife did not stay away from the other man.

Have I lived with an alcoholic spouse - yes!!!!! One who got very violent with me. However there was something broken in her and it could be fixed. Had she been screwing anyone else (which she came very close to), she would be history no matter what was broken in her.

What I see here is that many of the women posters are really equating the two "reactions to grief" as being equivalent (even if they say they are not). I don't really get this (maybe because I am a man).

So to those women, are you saying that if the tables were turned and it was OP's wife being drunk all the time, would it be OK and should we all understand and forgive if OP went out screwing his workmate, spending quality time with them, taking pictures and videos etc ? Should we all understand it if he kept it a secret so as not hurt his wife and still hung around/worked with his other woman? Would it be OK if this other woman met OP's wife without OP's wife knowing that she had been screwing her husband ? All because his wife was drunk????

I think we are confusing the hell out of OP with some of our comments. He needs to focus on the following bad things that appear to have happened in order of severity:



His wife hung around with her lover for 9 years and still hangs around him after it supposedly stopped and kept it a secret. 


His wife had pictures etc of the other man screwing her and he may still have these.


His wife screwed another man and is blaming it on not only the death of her children but also on his drinking.


This is "cold light of day" stuff and the OP should not be swayed in getting to the truth - after all his wife got the truth from him.


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## [email protected]

Idkaname, you have to be choosey about counselors. Some are good. Yet, if you want to see a crowd of screwballs in one room, go to an MSW convention.


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## TJW

manfromlamancha said:


> it is standard practice for cheaters to say I didn't want to hurt you


Yes. Cheater's Handbook, chapter 4, page 3. But the cheater knows FULLY WELL that his/her actions WILL hurt the BS, if the BS discovers the affair. They mostly think they can "get away" with it, they can get their jollies and what the BS doesn't know won't hurt him/her.

I think my WS did not pursue affairs for the purpose of hurting me. She said so. However, what she didn't recognize is that she did it with depraved indifference. On Law and Order, this is murder 2.  

Even a licensed counselor has, in this case, perpetuated the lie that the BS "doesn't have to know"... even though anyone who has studied extramarital affairs will understand that someday, somehow, when you least expect it, someone will step up to the WS and say .... ".....smile....you're on Candid Camera....."....


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## sokillme

TJW said:


> Yes. Cheater's Handbook, chapter 4, page 3. But the cheater knows FULLY WELL that his/her actions WILL hurt the BS, if the BS discovers the affair. They mostly think they can "get away" with it, they can get their jollies and what the BS doesn't know won't hurt him/her.
> 
> I think my WS did not pursue affairs for the purpose of hurting me. She said so. However, what she didn't recognize is that she did it with depraved indifference. On Law and Order, this is murder 2.
> 
> Even a licensed counselor has, in this case, perpetuated the lie that the BS "doesn't have to know"... even though anyone who has studied extramarital affairs will understand that someday, somehow, when you least expect it, someone will step up to the WS and say .... ".....smile....you're on Candid Camera....."....


No offense dude but from your posting history your WS seems like a sociopath. Granted we only have your posts.


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## alte Dame

Marc878 said:


> Many jump back in without thinking it over and become resentful and wish they hadn't which just causes you to live in misery.


You are in shock right now and reacting based on that. You will change your mind about much of this as time forces everything to sink in.

For now, try to filter out the things that *must* happen whether you stay together or not. I'm assuming that DNA tests on the kids is a must no matter what. Try to stay focused on that. Stay firm about the polygraph. Make it a dealbreaker that she agrees to take it. Focus on that, as well.

One step at a time. I agree with @Marc878 that your feelings about this will change and you may well regret any decisions you made while in the shock phase. Focus on the things that you need whether you divorce or not. First and foremost, you need the truth. DNA and polygraph. Get the truth. Then, you can decide.


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## Bibi1031

idkaname said:


> I won't take drastic action while my WW is pregnant. I need space but that's about it. I'm not going to yell at her, kick her out or demand a divorce right now. She chose to go to her parents. We didn't fight about it. I would like to ask her some more questions but I'm torn between not wanting to stress her out and wanting to get it out of the way before the baby comes. The week of labour and after delivery won't be the time to talk about anything. She has physically and emotionally rough recoveries so I don't know when the pregnancy card no longer applies.
> 
> If I inform my WW, she will be humiliated that my friend has seen those pictures and videos. Sorry but that's the price to pay. I probably won't even tell her. He doesn't have copies saved for personal use. I'm more angry about the pictures than anything else. My WW prided herself on me being the only guy she had been intimate with and the only guy who had seen her naked. She distinguished between those facts. Both of those are now untrue and she let the OM have pictures and video to go back and look again and again. Now the OM can look at her whenever he wants or share them with anyone. They go work together and he needs no imagination to know what is under the scrubs.
> 
> My father in law would probably murder me if I shared the pictures. I didn't know what would be found. My WW is the one who put them there.


 @idkaname,. You mentioned your in law's were very religious. Are you and your wife religious as well? If you don't mind me asking, what denomination are your in-laws and you and WW?


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## drifting on

Idkaname

Your position at the moment is both precarious and overwhelming, knee jerk decisions are rapid. Mind movies will play in your head for months, details difficult to accept and painful. Your world is both devastated and destroyed, although you survived your kids passing, you are very strong. 

So now you have had a decision thrust in your face to make, a decision you never wanted. Your wife had an affair, nine years ago, and foolishly never came clean. Certainly her time to come clean was in marriage counseling, but instead she only blamed your flaws. You said her therapist stated it would transfer pain to you, and I’m sure she never told the therapist she worked with the AP five days a week. Sorry, but your wife doesn’t sound like a stand up person, so I’m sure she minimized the affair to her therapist. I would also be sure that she explained to her therapist what a terrible human being you were to her as well. That’s what cheaters do when they aren’t strong enough to own their decisions. 

Next you have the deception of nine years, nine years, which tells me she would take this to her grave. I haven’t read every response in this thread, but a major component to reconciliation is remorse. It’s abundantly clear she has zero remorse, deception for nine years, continued contact, having you text AP, and then the real proving point, sees no issue to working with AP still. I can only hope you will not come on here saying she is remorseful, because she isn’t close. 
@ConanHub has given you great advice, somewhat brash at times, but good advice. Become healthy is what you need to do, make no decisions with the exception of filing, your wife needs to know what her actions have done. Definitely see a lawyer to discuss your options, I would also leave the papers and business card of the lawyer in plain sight of her. You can always have a divorced stopped, but she needs to know it could be the consequence. Lastly, concentrate on you and then your kids, get healthy as this will lead you to where you need to be. One other thing, filing for divorce you name the AP and go for full custody of children, you can tell the judge that cheating is not the making of a good role model. See, your wife never once considered their lives, even if they weren’t born yet, because she deceived you for nine years. Is that someone you want to raise kids? 

Get your feet back under you firmly, slowly begin to make decisions as you carefully watch your wife. You will come to a moment where you know you are fine with or without her. It’s a very clear moment in your head, pressure becomes lifted from your chest, you feel you can finally breathe. This is why you file and then just wait, get your questions answered, get the information that you need. As for a polygraph, as many who say to take one will have the same saying don’t. Understand this first, the polygraph is a tool, only as good as the examiner is, and I do support them. In the US a polygraph is necessary for many government jobs as well as police and firefighter. Ask yourself why, if it isn’t admissible in our court system why are they used? As for beating a polygraph, that person has had training and practiced with a lie detector. The fact your wife doesn’t want to take one says it all to me. Forgive me for asking, but could this affair have started before she claims, maybe around the birth of one of your children? I know it’s hard to think that maybe a child of yours isn’t yours biologically, the pain from this is excruciating, I know only too well.


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## seadoug105

*Re: Wife had an affair 9 years agot*



idkaname said:


> I want something that will give me hope that all of my deceased, living and in utero children are mine. *I can DNA test two of my daughter's.* When my WW goes into labour I want to have some hope that baby is mine. I don't know how I'm going to help her through labour and delivery if *I'm doubting if my son is mine. I will forever wonder about the paternity of the daughter's I lost. *Aside from exhuming their remains there is no way to ever know if those were my children. I need something to give me hope. I want to trust my wife and I can't.
> 
> I don't trust my WW and want verification that she is telling me the truth. I don't know what to think. There are no clear signs of her having a current affair. *She kept working with the OM and hid a big lie from me.* She doesn't want to do a polygraph. I don't know what to trust.


The simple fact that she had an affair would make one doubt... what would make me want to test even more (and it’s why I asked my question earlier) is that sex of the baby is determined by the father and the odds of having boy after four girl, although not impossible, is unlikely, if not very unlikely...

I truly hope all your worst fears are not true, that she corrected her path long ago (sans deception), and she truly is the living wife she portrayed in resent years.


-just my Sha-hitty 2-cents


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## jsmart

IDK, how are you? Did you have a talk with your wife about the questions you wanted to pose? Have you spoken to her father about where he thinks her head is at?

Please make sure that you're taking care of your health. Drinking lots of water to stay hydrated. Many BH end up losing weight on the heart break diet. If you're finding it hard to eat, I recommend a protein drink. Here in the States, we have a popular drink called "Ensure". It's high in calories and protein. 

Also it's a good idea to go exercise to burn off some energy. It will help lower your anxiety levels. Pumping some iron can also help keep your T levels up, which usually take a huge hit in a emasculating situation like this. If gyms are not your thing, going for a good run can help distract your mind. 

Even though we TAMers are strangers to you, we do care about your situation and do want to be there to provide guidance or just be a place for you to vent. I pray that God gives you wisdom and strength to get through this.


----------



## OutofRetirement

When was your marriage counseling? How many years? How many visits per week/month?


----------



## idkaname

We started marriage counselling just over a year after losing our daughter's. We went for two consecutive years. Once a week for 6 months. Every other week for 6 months. Once a month for a year.

We alternate between my parents church and my inlaws church (PC and LDS) but don't attend often. Me and my wife are not very religious.

Why is it unlikely to have a boy after five girls (one pregnancy loss)? It is not 50/50 each time?

I'll have the DNA tests tomorrow. I'm going to do them before I take my kids to my inlaws house for a few days. I am alternating every 3 days for now.

I sent my wife some questions. Mostly yes/no questions. I didn't want filler garbage just yes or no. She gave me a timeline. I don't know what to believe or think. I have to give it some thought. This isn't how I wanted to welcome our last baby into the world.


----------



## Marc878

You have much to think about unless it's a dealbreaker. If it is a dealbreaker don't wallow in this.

Good luck


----------



## sokillme

idkaname said:


> We started marriage counselling just over a year after losing our daughter's. We went for two consecutive years. Once a week for 6 months. Every other week for 6 months. Once a month for a year.
> 
> We alternate between my parents church and my inlaws church (PC and LDS) but don't attend often. Me and my wife are not very religious.
> 
> Why is it unlikely to have a boy after five girls (one pregnancy loss)? It is not 50/50 each time?
> 
> I'll have the DNA tests tomorrow. I'm going to do them before I take my kids to my inlaws house for a few days. I am alternating every 3 days for now.
> 
> I sent my wife some questions. Mostly yes/no questions. I didn't want filler garbage just yes or no. She gave me a timeline. I don't know what to believe or think. I have to give it some thought. This isn't how I wanted to welcome our last baby into the world.


At least tell your wife you are going to follow up the question with a polygraph and if you find out she is lying then you are done. 

What is she doing to fix this besides crying and begging?


----------



## rdawg

idkaname said:


> I want something that will give me hope that all of my deceased, living and in utero children are mine. I can DNA test two of my daughter's. When my WW goes into labour I want to have some hope that baby is mine. I don't know how I'm going to help her through labour and delivery if I'm doubting if my son is mine. I will forever wonder about the paternity of the daughter's I lost. Aside from exhuming their remains there is no way to ever know if those were my children. I need something to give me hope. I want to trust my wife and I can't.


Just wanted to throw this info out there in case it's something you wanted to chase. The agency involved with the death investigations for your children likely have DNA blood spot cards on file. In the US, it is usually required to get a court order to have those sent out for testing. It might be an option for you if you want to pursue that. I would call the agency first, they should tell you if they have the DNA card on file and what steps are needed to obtain them for testing.

I can't even wrap my head around what you are going through with another child on the way right now. I do believe that at this point of the pregnancy you should assume this child is yours and be there for the delivery. You need more time to process and decide what you are going to do without making any rash decisions at this point.

My twins were 4 months old when I caught the OM with my XW, doing the horizontal bone dance in the back of his truck. After going through her phone, I found pictures of him holding my twins at the hospital (while I had left to pick up the oldest child to meet the siblings). Trickle-truth was all I got on EVERYTHING, and each time I found more evidence I got a little more trickle truth. 

DNA testing showed the twins were mine, but further digging showed pics of him holding my oldest as an infant (4 years earlier). And in the process discovered another affair from 10 years earlier (different man). Supposedly a counselor had told her not to share that information with me. It would have been nice for me to have the option to stay or bail at that point before kids even happened. I don't get why counselors do that, but it's common.

I would still contact the wife of the OM. Even though they weren't married at the time, they may have been in a dating relationship when this affair was ongoing. You might get a lot more of the story filled in. When I got ahold of the OMW in my situation, I learned a lot more detail and length of time for the affair. She had found out about it a year and a half earlier and confronted but was assured it ended at that point. Clearly it had not and gave her the info to bail at that point. 

Please take care of yourself first. Keep your family and friends close as you need them right now. I mostly lurked on this forum but still felt so much support seeing I wasn't the only one in this situation.


----------



## manwithnoname

idkaname said:


> We started marriage counselling just over a year after losing our daughter's. We went for two consecutive years. Once a week for 6 months. Every other week for 6 months. Once a month for a year.
> 
> We alternate between my parents church and my inlaws church (PC and LDS) but don't attend often. Me and my wife are not very religious.
> 
> Why is it unlikely to have a boy after five girls (one pregnancy loss)? It is not 50/50 each time?
> 
> I'll have the DNA tests tomorrow. I'm going to do them before I take my kids to my inlaws house for a few days. I am alternating every 3 days for now.
> 
> I sent my wife some questions. Mostly yes/no questions. I didn't want filler garbage just yes or no. She gave me a timeline. I don't know what to believe or think. I have to give it some thought. This isn't how I wanted to welcome our last baby into the world.





sokillme said:


> At least tell your wife you are going to follow up the question with a polygraph and if you find out she is lying then you are done.
> 
> What is she doing to fix this besides crying and begging?


Don't tell her about the polygraph, just take her there. And don't use the same questions if you tell her you are going to polygraph.


----------



## idkaname

sokillme said:


> At least tell your wife you are going to follow up the question with a polygraph and if you find out she is lying then you are done.
> 
> What is she doing to fix this besides crying and begging?


Not much. She is in denial. My inlaws LDS church gave her two books to read. She doesn't want to do it and cries about it. My father in law is trying to help her see that it was wrong and infidelity before her clothes came off and after she stopped taking them off. She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was. She answered the questions with her dad there and was humiliated. She did answer them all.


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> Not much. She is in denial. My inlaws LDS church gave her two books to read. She doesn't want to do it and cries about it. My father in law is trying to help her see that it was wrong and infidelity before her clothes came off and after she stopped taking them off. She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was. She answered the questions with her dad there and was humiliated. She did answer them all.



What were the questions and what were her answers?


----------



## TJW

idkaname said:


> She is in denial.
> My father in law is trying to help her see that it was wrong


It may take more than a few days for her to get out of denial, see her own actions as wrong. She has built a "stronghold" in her mind about this, over 9 years. This is not going to be torn down, and replaced with correct thinking, in a few days.



sokillme said:


> No offense dude but from your posting history your WS seems like a sociopath.


She was not a sociopath when it came to other things in her life. She was a devoted mother, had concern for other people's welfare, and was able to empathize with others. Except..... when it came to her own promiscuity, she had thoroughly given herself permission to get "skin" (her word) from whomever it was available..... she was entitled to it... as if it was an "inalienable right"....

I'm afraid this scripture applies to my WS and to Mrs. Idkaname (I Timothy 4:1,2)

_Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. 
_

This is what happens when the world-influence fully takes root ..... the false teacher has come to Mrs. Idkaname in the form of a marriage counselor.... the teaching of demons has come, telling her that there is pleasure in sin..... and a belief-system that she is doing the "best" by not confessing and repenting of her sin has taken hold in her....

Her reluctance to read and understand the LDS literature shows that she is resisting God's attempts, and her father's, to restore her belief-system to truth. 

Her father coming down on the side of truth and accountability in this is a major miracle. My WSs family was in tune with situational ethics, unfortunately, so there was no support from them which helped me.



idkaname said:


> She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was.


Mrs. Idkaname must first understand that "stability" is only going to come when she purges herself out of this iniquity and "doctrine of demons" and returns herself to a position of biblical truth. What she received from the marriage counselor may have been fraught with half-truth and substitutions of inane pop-psychology for biblical, God-breathed solid doctrine.

It is very unfortunate that "trickle truth" often substitutes itself for cleansing, repentant, life-changing confession and seeking God.


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> Not much. *She is in denial. My inlaws LDS church gave her two books to read. She doesn't want to do it and cries about it. My father in law is trying to help her see that it was wrong and infidelity before her clothes came off and after she stopped taking them off. *She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was. *She answered the questions with her dad there and was humiliated. She did answer them all.*


Is she pushing back on the book suggestions because of the religious aspect or is she of the mindset that it was in the past, it was caused by you not being there for her, and that you just need to sweep it under the rug?

What were the questions and answers? Remember that none of us know you and that many of us have been betrayed, so there's no judgement. Does the timeline she provided include when they 1st started flirting, when they first took it physical, when it stopped being physical, why they stopped and who's idea was it to stop, and have there been further hook ups over the years?


----------



## OutofRetirement

I think she is pushing back and crying about the polygraph. She is in denial that she'll have to do this to stay married.

I think she is afraid she will have to confess to more than she wants to. I don't know what that is, but I would guess that your wife knows you pretty well and she's probably thinking this is beyond what she thought you would tolerate, anything more would be just too much.

And I can't disagree with her in the sense that she knows there is no way to win for her - if she tells the real truth you will leave her, if she lies in the polygraph you will leave her, and if she refuses to take the polygraph you will leave her. It's lose-lose-lose for her. Her only chance is if she can get you to forget about the polygraph.

She's even terrified that you might call the other guy and he might tell the truth. But not so bad, because then she can say he's lying and you still won't know. Unless he can give you evidence. But let's face it, chances are she's already prepped him. And he's a known liar, too. But I think you should call him because you never know what piece of the puzzle he might give you. You can assess anything he says based on that he might be lying, but it might also help propel your wife to give you more truth.

But if you wanted to save your marriage and you made a bad decision 9 years ago and you know that if you tell the truth she is going to leave you, even if you are strong enough to suffer that consequence, can't you understand her position?


----------



## lucy999

idkaname said:


> She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was.


Do not rush this on account of her wanting to. You do not have to hurry up and make any sort of decision, whether it is to divorce or to stay together. You do things on your time, not hers. It is OK to take your time. 

She also needs to realize that your marriage will never, ever be the way it was. Sure, you 2 can be together if you decide that is the way you want to go. But from here on out, your relationship will be very different. But that is not to say that it can't happen. The relationship you had is gone. You can start anew (if that's what you want) and start on a new and trusting foundation. The both of you. Keep both of your sides of the street clean.

And I want to say I am so very sorry for the loss of your daughters.


----------



## GusPolinski

idkaname said:


> Not much. She is in denial. My inlaws LDS church gave her two books to read. She doesn't want to do it and cries about it. My father in law is trying to help her see that it was wrong and infidelity before her clothes came off and after she stopped taking them off. *She wants stability before the baby comes and wants our marriage back where it was.* She answered the questions with her dad there and was humiliated. She did answer them all.


Tell her to un**** OM.


----------



## TJW

lucy999 said:


> Do not rush this on account of her wanting to. ......You do things on your time, not hers.


Yes. Please, slow down, take your time. See your lawyer. Not because you are going to start any kind of action, but in order to fully understand what EVERY action will mean, going forward. Then, you can choose, knowing what's behind every door.

Also, this is not only new to you. It's quite new to your wife, also. She had fully "bought in" to a mindset which kept her actions secret.
She must now adopt a quite-different mindset in which you know the truth.

Let her get through the challenging labor ahead. You won't regret this later. It will be difficult now, but in years to come, you will look at yourself in the mirror and like what you see.



GusPolinski said:


> Tell her to un**** OM.


This is exactly what she must do. That's why the good advice says to maintain no contact forever with the AP. It's somewhat like an alcoholic trying to be a bartender. The good advice would say to find another job.


----------



## sokillme

TJW said:


> She was not a sociopath when it came to other things in her life. She was a devoted mother, had concern for other people's welfare, and was able to empathize with others. Except..... when it came to her own promiscuity, she had thoroughly given herself permission to get "skin" (her word) from whomever it was available..... she was entitled to it... as if it was an "inalienable right"....


What about you her husband? No regard for you at all? Does she not believe in fidelity, loyalty? Are you sure she is a Christian? Her fruit doesn't show it.

None of this stuff with you or OP is denial it's just willful entitlement.


----------



## TAMAT

IDK,

Ask her if she will wear Temple Garments, or if she was wearing them at the time?

You are in a much better place than most of us posters were or are. You got almost all your options rolled out for you.


----------



## TJW

sokillme said:


> What about you her husband? No regard for you at all? Does she not believe in fidelity, loyalty? Are you sure she is a Christian? Her fruit doesn't show it.


She did not believe in fidelity or loyalty when "skin" was in the differential. She believed that anyone who didn't get "enough skin" at home was entitled to get it elsewhere.

Only the Lord Jesus Christ knows if she was a christian. As a "fruit inspector", my personal judgment was no, because she demonstrated a continued lifestyle of fornication and adultery.



sokillme said:


> None of this stuff with you or OP is denial it's just willful entitlement.


Agreed. "Denial" is based upon convenience.


----------



## personofinterest

She's trying to control the situation, plain and simple.

True remorse would be COMPLETE transparency, humility, and a willingness to do whatever it takes.

She isn't there.


----------



## Chaparral

Cletus said:


> Perhaps it's not the point for you. What if someone you're counseling actually 1) believes they work 2) gets their spouse to take one and then 3) kicks them out based on the results, which have never been shown to be even remotely reliable?
> 
> It's bull****. Bad advice is bad advice regardless.


Polygraphs are much more reliable than cheaters. Just sayin


----------



## Marc878

She wants a rug sweep and for you to just get over it.

Not R material

Sorry man


----------



## sokillme

TJW said:


> She did not believe in fidelity or loyalty when "skin" was in the differential. She believed that anyone who didn't get "enough skin" at home was entitled to get it elsewhere.
> 
> Only the Lord Jesus Christ knows if she was a christian. As a "fruit inspector", my personal judgment was no, because she demonstrated a continued lifestyle of fornication and adultery.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. "Denial" is based upon convenience.


It's hard to be married to someone who treats you like a couch. Which is what these WS do. It's like you are a affectation to their lives.


----------



## Dragan Jovanovic

DNA the kids,polygraph the wife. Then you decide what to do with your marriage.


----------



## NJ2

I had my H take a poly after a year of refusing. The questions were something like...
!. Have you ever cheated on your wife while married?
2. Have you commited adultery while married to your wife?
3. Have you ever knowingly withheld information about sexual acts with others while married to your wife?

The polygrapher came up with these questions they were not the original ones I sent to him but whatever....
He spent an hour an a half establishing both trust in the polygraph as a tool to detect lies, the competence of himself as an administarator and the fact that he will be measured on answering questions while under stress as a baseline so his general nerves would not impact the out come.

He went through all the "acts" which I would consider unfaithful- this included all the basic sex acts as well as kissing passionately and with tongues . 

He scored undecided on 2. and 3. and deceptive on 1.
THe undecided made some sense -in that I actually didnt believe he would have had PIV intercourse with an AP.(he is extremely religious and would consider that a mortal sin) That is what he would consider adultery to be. I think he didnt quite get what the guy was asking for in 3.

Now the answer to 1............he explained away by saying he had, earlier in the marriage- kissed a girl while on a sports weekend out of town and gone into a private room with her to go further but didnt. He also had kissed 3 other girls on 3 other sports weekends away but didnt go any farther. 

Like Philly said the BS is still left with questions. I wanted to know the time frame of these weekends- was it 10,20 30 years ago? Was there more than 4? Did he go farther than kissing passionately with anyone? If so how far did he go? Why did he stop.....was there any follow up contact? Were they younger , prettier, have better bodies...than me.....

I could go on and on.....It cost me $1000 and I wasnt satisfied. I didnt think I had the whole truth. I arranged for another poly which he agreed to go to but somehow convinced the guy that no matter what I would never be satisfied with the answers so he didnt administer the poly the 2nd time. (true- by this time I had developed an OCD thing around OW and spent 90% of my waking life focused on possibilities and unknown scenarios....)

Just saying......

If i were you I would forget about the details -go for the questions to the big stuff- the deal breakers. Figure out what the deal breakers for you REALLY are. They will be different for every person. H didnt want me to take a poly. He believes everything I have told him. It has been the truth as I remembered it with one exception. He asked if i ever told OM I loved him and I said no. I honestly didnt think I ever did. I later remembered I had written it in a card that I sent him when I was drunk. I had called him later and begged him not to open the card - I said I did not mean what I'd written in it. He had already read it of course and repeated the line I had written. I said I do not love you . It was infatuation, chemicals, immaturity, self centeredness, entitlement...but not love. Love is what is between 2 people after the dust has settled. Love is what remains after the heartache has dissappaited. Love is not fleeting chemicals and delusion. It is not hormones and skin. It wants to endure. (and if you are wondering....after I remembered about the letter I did not explain the mistake to H...)

If it cant endure then you have to go if it doesnt want to endure you have to leave but give it time to see. 

I didnt really care about the kissing stuff from 10-20 years ago. Stupid inconsiderate stuff but not deal breakers. MC said my reaction was a bit unusual but my own A probably allowed me to see his indiscretions with empathy.I know that I will never know with certainty what he has done. I tell myself it is much more than he has or will ever admit to. We continue to go to an MC as new issues arise over this. We actually changed MC's as we both felt we had gotten what we could from the original one. 

We apparently still love each other very much and both are willing to keep working on things to make a better stronger marriage for our remaining years. We continue to try and grow and become better people. We hope the best is yet to come.


----------



## idkaname

How long should someone wait before ending their marriage? Is there reason to drag it out?


----------



## Marc878

It takes awhile but if it's a dealbreaker I'd at least see an attorney to find out where I stand ASAP.

Like most time will bring more clarity.

In these situations it's all on your schedule no one else matters.


----------



## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> How long should someone wait before ending their marriage? Is there reason to drag it out?



Those are questions only you can answer for yourself.

Personally, I would probably want to be near the baby if he was indeed mine, but I would be looking for a way to be divorcing and figuring out how to move.


----------



## TJW

idkaname said:


> How long should someone wait before ending their marriage?


Consult your lawyer, wait until you know ALL of what your life is going to be like in EVERY scenario. Then make your move, if move is indeed what you want to do.

I actually chose to remain in the marriage. Because the results I would have faced by leaving would have been far more difficult than staying.



Marc878 said:


> In these situations it's all on your schedule no one else matters.


Amen, and amen. Your wife was IN NO HURRY about telling you.....there's no reason you have to be in any hurry about leaving.

I get it, the stress of indecision is hard. But, remember....act in haste, repent in leisure...


----------



## sokillme

Let the kid be born healthy. Get the DNA test. Detach and then decide.


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> How long should someone wait before ending their marriage? Is there reason to drag it out?


Did you learn more about the affair that's made it a deal breaker? Not that what she told was not already a deal breaker but it seemed like you were of the mind to possible forgive her since she's been a good wife since.

I know most TAMers are of the mind that it's very unlikely it stopped after 7 months and that she wasn't completely in a fogged up "luv." I simply can't imagine that a guy F'ing a woman 5 days a week for 7 months is just going to stop pursuing her every once in a while. The intimacy they shared and the submission she showed to allow him to film her is a lot. She was a virgin when you 1st had her, so it would take a lot for her to get that submissive for a new man. Then after 7 months it was completely over? even though they continue to closely work together?

I'm trying to imagine myself, working closely with a woman for 9 years that I had a 7 month long sex affair, where I had pics and video of me banging her, then just completely stopping. No occasional bang, no more sneaking a kiss, or squeezing her but or grabbing her boobs when no one is looking. Just completely stopped, and I can't see it. 

The only thing that makes your situation different from all of the threads we get is the death of your 2 kids. That's what some of the TAMers think that it could possibly true. To start F"ing a new man 6 weeks after the death of 2 children is not normal so her affair can also be different. At least I really hope so. Once you get the DNA results from the 3 kids, you'll have more proof that what she said is true.


----------



## ABHale

idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.
> 
> I don't know what to think because she doesn't hide anything from me. Her cell unlocks when connected to home wifi. I know the code and my fingerprint is saved on it. She doesn't lock her computer or tablet. Her laptop has my fingerprint on it. I frequently use her phone. I know all of her passwords. Our marriage has been better than ever. The only texts to him were about work. I've texted him for my wife when she was driving.
> 
> Is there a way to find out if he's married without asking my wife? I didn't find him on Facebook.
> 
> What is the reasoning behind telling friends and family about the affair? Some do know. I don't know if that should be public knowledge.


The reason for saying she cheated is to prevent her from rewriting history. 

Or 

Force the ending of an affair.


----------



## personofinterest

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> DNA the kids,polygraph the wife. Then you decide what to do with your marriage.


This


----------



## TJW

jsmart said:


> Then after 7 months it was completely over? even though they continue to closely work together?


I, for one, do not believe this is the truth. It is, at the very least, "trickle truth". It is not any kind of forthcoming "clear the slate" truth.



idkaname said:


> I don't trust her story because she works with him. She is with him 5 days a week.


Yes. It defies even a soap-opera imagination.


----------



## Bibi1031

Just like some said it was too soon to forgive because you needed to see certain things such as remorse, empathy, etc. You need to know what is best for you legally if you legally separated or divorce.

Taking no action or fence sitting is indeed an action within itself. It is YOUR journey! Don't let anyone on this board or IRL tell you otherwise.


----------



## Decorum

rdawg said:


> My twins were 4 months old when I caught the OM with my XW, doing the horizontal bone dance in the back of his truck. After going through her phone, I found pictures of him holding my twins at the hospital (while I had left to pick up the oldest child to meet the siblings). Trickle-truth was all I got on EVERYTHING, and each time I found more evidence I got a little more trickle truth.
> 
> DNA testing showed the twins were mine, but further digging showed pics of him holding my oldest as an infant (4 years earlier). And in the process discovered another affair from 10 years earlier (different man). Supposedly a counselor had told her not to share that information with me. It would have been nice for me to have the option to stay or bail at that point before kids even happened. I don't get why counselors do that, but it's common.
> 
> I would still contact the wife of the OM. Even though they weren't married at the time, they may have been in a dating relationship when this affair was ongoing. You might get a lot more of the story filled in. When I got ahold of the OMW in my situation, I learned a lot more detail and length of time for the affair. She had found out about it a year and a half earlier and confronted but was assured it ended at that point. Clearly it had not and gave her the info to bail at that point.
> 
> Please take care of yourself first. Keep your family and friends close as you need them right now. I mostly lurked on this forum but still felt so much support seeing I wasn't the only one in this situation.


 @rdawg it looks like it started in 2015 for you, and you have handled it sensibly. 

Consider starting your own thread to tell your story. There are many that could benefit from your long term perspective.


----------



## jsmart

TJW said:


> I, for one, *do not believe this is the truth. It is, at the very least, "trickle truth*". It is not any kind of forthcoming "clear the slate" truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. It defies even a soap-opera imagination.



She was at that job for a few months before the tragedy. So it's possible that they were already in an inappropriate flirting relationship that was heading towards an affair even if the tragedy didn't happen. 

I come to that conclusion because of the speed of with which she started a sexual relationship. 6 weeks after the death of the 2nd child? That is sick but if they were already heading toward an affair, it makes sense. It was just sped up by the tragedy and OP falling apart in sorrow into the bottle, combined with him blaming her for their kid's deaths.

So besides the affair either starting or the beginnings of it before the trajedy, there's also the question of when it FIRMLY ended and why. Did she end it because IDK started to win her back or did the OM cut her off because he had a new serious relationship. It sounds like things cooled off when he moved further away but that doesn't mean they completely stopped. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to occasionally hook up for at least another year after that.

Also, I'm sure that IDK, wants to know if she loved him at the time. Her feeling abandoned and letting the 2nd man she's ever been with to film her tells me she 
thought is was "twu luv" and she was willing to do anything for him at the time. Not that would have been real love but to a vulnerable woman, it sure would have felt like it.


----------



## syhoybenden

TJW said:


> Consult your lawyer, wait until you know ALL of what your life is going to be like in EVERY scenario. Then make your move, if move is indeed what you want to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife was IN NO HURRY about telling you.....there's no reason you have to be in any hurry about leaving.



:iagree:

Let her twist slowly in the wind. 

You had your turn at that. 

Now it's hers.


----------



## TDSC60

Her refusal to take a polygraph is a clear indication that she is still hiding something.

How can you ever forgive and work through her affair if you don't know WHAT you are being asked to forgive and accept? 

How can you ever trust her words if you suspect she is still not being totally honest?


----------



## idkaname

She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


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## wilson

Even if she hasn't had any further intimate contact, the continual flirting from him keeps her in that affair mindset. It gives her a rush that he has desired her for so long, and even after he got married. From her perspective, it may actually be better than actually having sex from him. She gets the rush of being desired and pursued without the messiness and risk of actually having sex. If she was really over him, she would have told him to **** off and reported him to HR just like she would have if it was a random person making lewd comments at work. I wouldn't be surprised if she instigated communication or walked by him when she needed a little emotional lift that came from him making a sexual comment.


----------



## stillthinking

What label would she prefer?


----------



## stillthinking

STD, near miss on a pregnancy, 9 years of secrets. See an attorney.


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## syhoybenden

idkaname said:


> She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.



Too late for that.

She is what she is.

Aren't you getting tired of validating her excuses for her???


----------



## jsmart

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. *They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that.* Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. *He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater*.


See I knew it was already heading toward an affair before the tragedy but she doesn't want to be labeled as a cheater? The only reason the affair didn't start earlier is because of the tragedy.

Pregnancy scare, caught an STD, and talking about a future together? I knew it was worse than 1st described and that it wasn't a sex only affair. It is so rare that a WW doesn't completely fall for the OM. The OM will usually future fake the WW to keep the sex plentiful and wanton, which as you learned, worked. Having sex in the office and blowing him in their car. Your WW was like his person prostitute. Nearly getting pregnant just slowed her down, it took her getting an STD to wake up.

With this guy still hitting on her, it is OUTRAGEOUS that she continued working with him. She may have been turning him down but I'm sure she loved the attention of having OM blow her head up. You definitely need to blow his world up and tell his wife.


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## sokillme

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


She is full of crap - full stop. 

What an ego boost it must have been to have your ex-boyfriend hit on you every day and tell you how hot you are. Even if this is it, which I doubt, the disrespect is staggering. To hear her tell it, it was a 9 year affair with a 4 month physical component. 

The last line is laugh out loud silly. So what does she think it was love? A vacation?

So it was already going on before your kids died. Maybe not the affair but the inappropriateness.

When did your drinking start? If it started the day the kids died the drinking is a ridiculous excuse. 2 weeks of drinking after your kid dies does not a drunk make. Two weeks of getting drunk seems reasonable to me when losing a kid. A months makes sense. Certainly more reasonable then ****ing, taking pictures, getting pregnant, and finally an STD with a coworker. A faithful wife would at least try to make you stop, hell she could have been getting drunk with you. Your wife just jumped into bed with a guy. Hers started before your kids died anyway. After this story anyone making you out to be anything other then a victim in all this is only doing it because they are a bigoted *******. 

Your wife shouldn't be married to anyone she doesn't seem to have a concept of what marriage is. I would also say with that kind of attitude there is a very good chance of this happening with the death of your kids or not. Her answers were not "I wasn't in my right mind" they are, "I allowed myself to fall in love with another man therefor I wasn't cheating." Like we thought she had a 9 year mostly chaste emotional affair with a 3 month extremely sexual one one and she doesn't even thing she cheated? How is someone like that going to be a good wife moving forward. At this point she has shown no self awareness at all. How can you not do better, you have had more suffering in your life then anyone could imagine. Go find someone decent to spend the second half of your life with. 

Your wife is a cheater and you should assume she is still a liar. She is doing anything but taking responsibility. You should do what I said, wait for the child to be born. DNA test your kids and divorce her. Let the OM have her, because that man is about on her level. Also tell his wife, **** him, he is a snake and anyone deserves better to be married to someone like that. 

On a side note, what do all the "rush to forgive" people say now? Stories like this are why that advice is so unwise. How can you forgive when you don't even know what you are forgiving. Remember that going forward when you are trying to decide whose advice to follow.


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## MAJDEATH

The affairs from long ago are always the hardest ones. You rack your brain trying to remember details of certain days/events to compare with newly released information, in order to connect the dots. I feel for you man.

As others have said it also demonstrates that you W is capable of keeping lifetime secrets. So I wouldn't feel too bad about keeping some secrets of your own.


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## Yeswecan

idkaname said:


> She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


What works for your W? The label has been well earned.


----------



## drifting on

So you said she was seen by a doctor about a STD but it was negative, therefore no legal requirement for that doctor to notify you. Now sounds as if it were positive for an STD but you were not notified, is this the law in your country, state, province, county, etc.,? I’m thinking that the person whom she went (Doctor, PA, APN) for a prescription did so as a favor to treat her STD, therefore why you were not notified. To tell you the truth IDK, I’m getting a very bad feeling, refusal of a polygraph, admission of STD with cover up through medical professionals, really leaves you with worse position. I normally side with what the threadstarter wants, but I would struggle immensely in providing half a reason to continue the marriage. Your wife’s actions have given you nothing to work or even Hope with for a successful reconciliation.


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## mickybill

Well, I think you have all you need except for the DNA.
Obviously she was in the darkest time one can imagine but then she made the worst choices one can imagine as well. The fact she was already crushing on him before sort of dulls the "I lost my mind after the death of the kids" argument as she may have been heading that way anyway. You have been the other man for a long time after the affair "ended"...
Staying at the same place and working with him everyday is her little ego boost. 

If you stay married, and there are reasons for both options, she gets a new job, does not go back the old one after the birth if he is still there. 
The OBS is contacted but by now your WW has told the OM you know and the OBS got the speech that you are a crazy man.
She contacts HR with the truth about the affair and his continued hitting on her.

After the birth you could file for divorce, with the option of stopping it. What a sad hard 10 years you both have had.


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## sokillme

Another thing, for everyone reading, when your spouse tells you someone is hitting on them at work but they are not attracted, assume they are telling you that for a reason and are struggling with it. When someone hits on people and you are not attracted (especially when you are a women who are used to getting hit on) you don't mention it to your spouse you forget about it a moment later. 

Just a tip.


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## faithfulman

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


*1)* I would be shocked if she wasn't cheating in some form - and probably sexually - prior to the death of your children. Certainly she was behaving inappropriately.

*2)* It looks like she is trying to spin it as he just grabbed her. Maybe, but more likely she gave him indication that she was available, as she had been doing for MONTHS prior, This is assuming her timeline even resembles the truth which is highly doubtful.

*3)* Every day for 3 months? And she made pornography with him!? Jesus Christ!

*4)* She "stopped" the affair? But sex continued for months after? Since she can still be ****ing some dude in a stopped affair, it makes you wonder what she considers to be an affair and what else she has done in your time together.

*5)* Pregnancy scare and an STD? Public sex with this guy? Yet in marriage counseling you're the one with problems. Think about that.


*6)* He tried to kiss and touch her for a couple of years afterwards but she claims to have stopped it. Lies, that's what I think.


*7)* He still comments on her body and the affair. But she is cool still working with him, interacting with with 5 days a week, and she puts you in the position of texting and talking(?) to him, there by degrading you every single time.

*8)* "*She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.*" Holy ****balls! Okay, she is probably a lot worse than just a "cheater".


*Let us say conclusively:*

*A)* The tragic death of your sweet children did not cause your wife to behave in this way.

*B)* Your temporary grief-fueled alcoholism and withdrawal did not cause your wife to behave in this way.

***

I think your wife is a sick individual. I can't see how you will ever be safe with her. She has betrayed you in the worst way, while you were grieving. There has been video and photo evidence of her betrayal floating all around. 

She was never going to tell you.

She has caught diseases, maybe you were not sexual with her at that time and that is a small saving grace, perhaps.

She has continued a relationship with this man since cheating with him (Assuming that it ever ended), whatever that relationship is it is completely wrong.

*SHE IS STILL LYING!!!* You don't have the whole story, the full scope of her betrayal and depravity.

Trust me on this: Somebody who can do something this horrible, keep it a secret and sleep at night, has probably done other terrible things.

I don't see how you can stay with this person. For your own sake, and for the sake of your children, who are yours, DNA test or not, you need to leave this woman and find someone who has a modicum of decency.

Good luck idkaname.


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## Tobyboy

This guy had pics, video and probably other **** he could use on your wife to get what he wanted.....when he wanted! This has been going on for years!


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## faithfulman

sokillme said:


> She is full of crap - full stop.
> On a side note, what do all the "rush to forgive" people say now? Stories like this are why that advice is so unwise. How can you forgive when you don't even know what you are forgiving. Remember that going forward when you are trying to decide whose advice to follow.


Rush to Forgive? Some of it sure seemed like he was being blamed.

Pretty awful thing to do to him by making excuses for her. Meanwhile he was dealing with exactly what she was.


----------



## sokillme

faithfulman said:


> I think your wife is a sick individual. I can't see how you will ever be safe with her. She has betrayed you in the worst way, while you were grieving. There has been video and photo evidence of her betrayal floating all around.
> 
> She was never going to tell you.
> 
> She has caught diseases, maybe you were not sexual with her at that time and that is a small saving grace, perhaps.
> 
> She has continued a relationship with this man since cheating with him (Assuming that it ever ended), whatever that relationship is it is completely wrong.
> 
> *SHE IS STILL LYING!!!* You don't have the whole story, the full scope of her betrayal and depravity.
> 
> Trust me on this: Somebody who can do something this horrible, keep it a secret and sleep at night, has probably done other terrible things.
> 
> I don't see how you can stay with this person. For your own sake, and for the sake of your children, who are yours, DNA test or not, you need to leave this woman and find someone who has a modicum of decency.
> 
> Good luck idkaname.


With the way this women behaved is it any wonder he turned to alcohol. It's not like he had a partner in the marriage with him. Still, STILL he got himself together for her, after a year. 

Imagine being her Father sitting there and hearing that story. Supposedly a Mormon. 

I agree she is still lying but not sure it matters, it's not like he will have the full truth anyway. She doesn't even think she cheated!! :banghead:

Seriously OP there is a better life out there for you. Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


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## GusPolinski

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


Too bad that’s what she is.

I mean... still hanging onto pictures of him?

She’s still lying, man.


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## Marc878

drifting on said:


> So you said she was seen by a doctor about a STD but it was negative, therefore no legal requirement for that doctor to notify you. Now sounds as if it were positive for an STD but you were not notified, is this the law in your country, state, province, county, etc.,? I’m thinking that the person whom she went (Doctor, PA, APN) for a prescription did so as a favor to treat her STD, therefore why you were not notified. To tell you the truth IDK, I’m getting a very bad feeling, refusal of a polygraph, admission of STD with cover up through medical professionals, really leaves you with worse position. I normally side with what the threadstarter wants, but I would struggle immensely in providing half a reason to continue the marriage. Your wife’s actions have given you nothing to work or even Hope with for a successful reconciliation.


Smells like everyone at work or at least some knew. Who all has pics/vids?????

Dosent want to be labeled a cheater = zero remourse. Without that R would be impossible. All you Fould do is stay together.


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## sokillme

sokillme said:


> When it comes out that this is a LTA all this feeling sorry for OP's wife is going to seem very silly.


Sorry just felt like being a **** about it.


----------



## personofinterest

sokillme said:


> With the way this women behaved is it any wonder he turned to alcohol. It's not like he had a partner in the marriage with him. Still, STILL he got himself together for her, after a year.
> 
> Imagine being her Father sitting there and hearing that story. Supposedly a Mormon.
> 
> I agree she is still lying but not sure it matters, it's not like he will have the full truth anyway. She doesn't even think she cheated!! :banghead:
> 
> Seriously OP there is a better life out there for you. Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


Okay, her behavior is beyond reprehensible, but this is just out there. He started drinking because THEY LOST a CHILD.

Not because of her.

Wild ridiculous statements like this just demean the whole conversation.

That said, I cannot understand WHY she cannot understand the depth of her own betrayal.


----------



## Casual Observer

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


The STD... I would have thought *that* might have been the thing that supposedly stopped the affair. Because what does that make her think about the guy? How could that not have been an eye-opening moment for her?

And, as others have mentioned, how did you end up out of the loop (not notified about the STD by a doctor and/or not contracting it yourself)?


----------



## sokillme

personofinterest said:


> Okay, her behavior is beyond reprehensible, but this is just out there. He started drinking because THEY LOST a CHILD.
> 
> Not because of her.
> 
> Wild ridiculous statements like this just demean the whole conversation.
> 
> That said, I cannot understand WHY she cannot understand the depth of her own betrayal.


It's a little more nuanced then that. He was alone. He lost a child and his wife was off having an affair after 2 weeks (let be honest, actually already in it). And yes -- "she cannot understand the depth of her own betrayal" now imagine going through the death of a child with someone who shows such lack of introspection. Someone who is THAT self centered? HER KID JUST DIED. Her husband was suffering like she was. Do you think that person is going to be good in a crisis? Dude was alone, completely alone. In the context of this paragraph I stand by my opinion. He had no one (actually the person he needed to depend on the most was giving herself to another to the point of risking his life, what if she had given him AIDS for instance) at the worst moment of his life. So he turned to alcohol for a year. He self destructed. She abandoned and abused him for 9 years. Is that clearer now?

And she probably seems delusion because she has been in a LTA for a third of her life and most of her adult life. And there is no way in hell I believe with this guy, that their entire relationship after it was over, was professional and he just hit on her. I also give it a 75% chance that the sex didn't end after 3 months. How about when she had a downtime in their marriage like everyone does? Or say if she was feeling really good? I bet some kind of inappropriate sexual stuff still went on, if not full on stuff. You have to be delusional to carry on two lives like this. You don't live in reality, if and when she ever lets reality come crashing down it's going to be rough. 

I'm sorry I am not in the mood today to be nice, everyone always gives me a hard time, but most of the time I am right.


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## TRy

idkaname said:


> Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that.





idkaname said:


> She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


She said that she had sex with him "Every day for 3 months", and "Stopped" the affair after a pregnancy scare. She then says that in her dishonest definition of stopping the affair, that stopping the affair meant no longer having sex with him everyday as it "tapered off over 3 or 4 months". Dude, in the months that followed after she says that she stopped the affair, she still had more sex with the other man than she did with you. Her definition of when she stopped the affair, makes no more sense than her not labeling herself as a cheater. 

When you are dealing with someone this dishonest, you must acknowledge, that she will never tell you the full extent of the affair. In light of the fact that she continued to work with him for years after she said that she ended the affair, it is very likely that using a reasonable definition of an affair, the affair went on for years, where by her logic as long as the sex was not every day but only infrequent, it does not count as still being in the affair.


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## Lostinthought61

i echo what others have noted here, that this OM is a very sick individual that would take advantage of a parent in grief and sleep with them...that is the kind of man this wife knows he married...that is what you tell her and you should.


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## jsmart

Her not wanting to be labeled a cheater shows her total lack of remorse. I also find it disgusting that she had the gall to blame her affair on being depressed over the death of her children and your drinking when she was already cheating before that all happened. Does she not have any shame for tarnishing their memory.

She was attracted to POS from the minute she started working there in January. The EA started in october. Does anyone here really believe that a woman that's attracted to a guy she works closely with everyday is going to wait that long? Nope. That's why POS knew everything that was going on in your marriage when she was on leave from work. He was already her boyfriend by then. 

She wants to make it seem as though she stopped the affair when you started marriage counseling, but that just doesn't pass the smell test. Just as I posted yesterday, I knew that POS was not going to be able to keep his hands off of her. Why would he stop. He was emboldened by the fact that she stayed working there. That was a signal for him to continue. I could just see the feigned rejection with her saying stop while she's giggling all the while this guy's feeling her up. So even if they stopped the sex after the STD, I'm sure she pretty much continued what many would consider an EA.


----------



## Robert22205

SEE your doctor and tell them what you shared with us. Emotional trauma resulting in sleeplessness, anger/anxiety, and loss of weight is treatable.
Also get yourself into IC.

Is there any proof (other than a liar's statement) that the affair ended 9 years ago? 

It's difficult to believe a single OM would settle for an EA after porn star level sex for months. 

The truth ultimately rests on a person's actions - not their words.The fact that she did not change jobs (i.e. her actions) contradicts her words. 
If the affair was over and she truly felt shame, she would have changed jobs.

I'm sorry but her actions don't support her claim that the affair ended 9 years ago. The burden of proof is on her. 
Under the circumstances, you have no obligation to believe a word she says or give her the benefit of the doubt. 
Unfortunately, with out concrete evidence to support her statements her actions tell a different story.

The fact that she continued to work with him while also appearing 'happily' married to you is scary. It takes an unusually deceitful, entitled, and selfish personality to lie to your face every day.


----------



## jsmart

IDK, when you learned these additional new details, did you ask her point blank how she could desecrate the memory of your deceased kids?

I would bet my next mortgage payment that she was already pulling away from you at the time the the tragedy struck, which could have been another reason why you fell down the well so far. Her emotional distance was probably what made you blame her. She blamed you for not being there but the truth is that she was not there BEFORE this went down.

I've read over a 1000 threads on these forums and can usually pickup things and read between the lines quickly. It's skill most of us TAMers have. I think if you really think back to that painful period, you will find that you were seeing the signs of her emotionally pulling away from you as she started her affair but you must have ignored your gut wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt. Then when tragedy struck, she abandoned you when you needed her most. She didn't need you because she was already involved with POS.

There were a few here that tried to excuse your wife's actions and come down especially hard on you but now we've learn how this pre-dates the passing of your children and the beginning of your drinking, that her affair and her actions now reveal a woman that is very callous and self centered. Because even now, with her due date approaching, she can't find it in herself to admit that she's an adulterous woman. I can only imagine the shame her father must have felt learning how dark his daughter is.


----------



## personofinterest

I will never understand when someone says they do not want to be labeled the exact thing they do. If you do not want to be labeled a cheater… don't cheat. If you do not want to be labeled a thief, don't steal. It's not rocket science


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Lostinthought61 said:


> i echo what others have noted here, that this OM is a very sick individual that would take advantage of a parent in grief and sleep with them...that is the kind of man this wife knows he married...that is what you tell her and you should.


You can't take advantage of someone that is married. Atleast, OM wasn't married and hadn't broken any vows. Obviously, he is morally depraved, but at the end of the day, he didn't have anyone to answer to besides a higher power. 

She, OTOH, decided that she had license to disgrace her marriage because of tragedy. What kind of warped mind can justify those actions? Maybe that should be scrutinized.


----------



## personofinterest

I was about to have a come apart until I got to the bottom of your post. I was going to ask you if murder is still murder if it is done in response to grief. Luckily you were being sarcastic. There are a lot of really horrible things people might do in response to grief. That doesn't make them not horrible.


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## syhoybenden

I'm sorry, but my gut, my intuition if you will, is screaming out at me that they were sexual Before the loss of the two children. And I have a terrible unease about that.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on the circumstances, the causes of those two individual and separate demises? I hate to think that what is bothering me could in any way be true.


----------



## sokillme

syhoybenden said:


> I'm sorry, but my gut, my intuition if you will, is screaming out at me that they were sexual Before the loss of the two children. And I have a terrible unease about that.
> 
> Would it be possible for you to elaborate on the circumstances, the causes of those two individual and separate demises? I hate to think that what is bothering me could in any way be true.


This is gruesome thought but it's not like it doesn't happen. And she does seem off.


----------



## faithfulman

I had the same thought much earlier in this discussion, but I dared not post it.

Now that the possibility has been broached, idkaname can investigate further if he wants to. 

However, I don't think it is really appropriate speculative discussion for a public internet forum - just my opinion.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

idkaname said:


> He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it.


She fought him off for two years...............


No, just, no. 

You realize, she inadvertently adjusted the timeline. So, you need to adjust it to 7 or 8 years ago. This is what we call trickle truth. Sorry, no way would she put up with inappropriate touching for another 1 or 2 years. You know, if she really snapped out of it. 



Lostinthought61 said:


> i echo what others have noted here, that this OM is a very sick individual that would take advantage of a parent in grief and sleep with them...that is the kind of man this wife knows he married...that is what you tell her and you should.


He's sick? Sorry, only if you take her side of the story at face value. 

I believe the sex happened before the terrible deaths. From what I just read the AP talked future, she shut him off, shut him down and he kept pursuing her for one or two years AFTER it supposedly ended. 

Sorry, that's the exact opposite of a sick womanizing player, who chases married women. Sounds like he was really in love and she is going back to Plan B to me.

I'd be questioning her STD story, how SHE got it and from whom.
I'd would do my best to find out when they first had sex and not from her mouth.
I'd expect a coercion/blackmail story to surface around the pictures if he further questions the newest version of this story.


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## idkaname

My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


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## stillthinking

If it’s a dealbreaker then forget the poly.


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## skerzoid

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


If you don't respond, people start to contemplate their navels around here. I you don't take action and allow yourself to be a doormat, you frustrate those who want to help you. You are her greatest victim and her greatest defender. 

People come here asking for help and advice, then start to get defensive when they hear stuff they don't like. They then come back later after getting their hearts destroyed by those they rose to defend. 

We have seen it many times and it is frustrating to see it happen to people who just want their old lives back and are unwilling to accept realty. Please understand, we are trying to help. Take what you need and ignore the rest. But take caution on what you ignore.


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## sokillme

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


Thank God there is no chance. I don't want to be a part of a thread like that.


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## jsmart

IDK, I know that the time period in which you lost your little girls was a painful and that you don’t like to revisit it but I think that if you really search your memory, you will probably recall that you were feeling her pulling away from you but you might have attributed her emotional coldness as being caused by certain events. 

What she recently revealed matches more realistically with what many TAMers thought, which is that the affair started BEFORE the deaths of your daughters, and lasted much longer than she has admitted. 

Even her trickle truth reveals there was more going on after the STD but you are not experienced in how these things play out to see that she’s only telling you half truths. That’s why when you share things with us, we can help you see through her BS. 

Now you know why she doesn’t want to take a poly. She has been having a continuous affair with him for many years. I would not be surprised if she was still having some sexual play up until she got pregnant with your current oldest, which also coincides with when he got engaged to his wife. 

I know some of our post hurt but I’m sure you realize that we’ve already helped you push for more answers and helped you see through her lies.


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## syhoybenden

Hey Idkaname, we're in the dark here. And all we can go by is the bits and pieces that you're doling out. 

We, you, are dealing with the fringes of human behaviour. Those fringes of human behaviour go to some very terrible and dark places. We can't know how extreme these excursions have gone and you have to get that. Things unsaid can be misleading. 

I know that it hurts, but how in hell can we get a handle on it with getting only a fraction of your story???


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## phillybeffandswiss

Yep, it is why I try to stay with what is written. Thread started with an affair, alcoholism and death. 
As he digs, the story evolves, turns, twists and we find out the connection started before the tragedy. 

Now, it is at least flirting before the tragedy, pregnancy scare, STD and one sided groping for 1 to 2 years. So, if I may ask and if you want to answer, what did she mean by scare? Scared as in you two weren't having sex and she thought she was pregnant?

I do no want to address the other reason I ask.


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## ABHale

idkaname said:


> How long should someone wait before ending their marriage? Is there reason to drag it out?


This is something only you can answer. 

Talk with a lawyer first to know what your options are.


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## faithfulman

We should let that angle go now.


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## personofinterest

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


I'm sorry, OP. Some people on here are still so full of pain from their own wounds that apparently speculating about murder seems normal to them.


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## personofinterest

syhoybenden said:


> Hey Idkaname, we're in the dark here. And all we can go by is the bits and pieces that you're doling out.
> 
> We, you, are dealing with the fringes of human behaviour. Those fringes of human behaviour go to some very terrible and dark places. We can't know how extreme these excursions have gone and you have to get that. Things unsaid can be misleading.
> 
> I know that it hurts, but how in hell can we get a handle on it with getting only a fraction of your story???


There was no misleading in the direction of I infanticide. Get real


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## Marc878

OP doesn't owe us or anyone anything. This is all on his schedule no one else's.


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## TJW

Do all these details really matter ?

I mean, no cheater enters into cheating without giving him/herself permission to cheat. In this case, OP's wife has admitted to starting her affair on a mental and psychological basis before her children were so tragically lost. She has admitted to continuing the affair for 9 months, and to allowing inappropriate touching and suggestive behavior for a couple of years following what might be called the "end".

The thing about "trickle truth".... is that no matter how slow the "trickle", the listener can establish the trajectory of that truth long before the admission of the correct details. It's only necessary to get a few data points and establish the rate of expansion.

In this very sad and unfortunate case, there is readily-apparent forensic evidence in the form of a photograph which pretty much tells the entire story. @idkaname can make a clear and rational decision about which path he will choose, going forward, from the forensic evidence alone. This photograph shows an action which is undeniably egregious. I think this photograph represents an "open-and-shut" basis upon which the details don't really add or detract much.


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## Casual Observer

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


By this point, in most threads, we don't see much of "my wife" as the OP has moved on to STBXW (soon to be ex-wife) or simply referring to her as "she." The transition has already been made, mentally, to the life without her. 

Have you actually made that transition, or is there still the possibility that you could read something or have an epiphany and stay together? This thread started out fast & furious and it seems like you've remained in that highly-emotionally-charged state of mind from beginning to now. Have you been able to spend any time in more calm, rational thought about everything?

Just concerned that the TAM environment is great for ratcheting the emotional stuff upwards in threads like this, without any counterpoint. Whatever decision you make, it should be something you'll look back upon rationally, not emotionally, as the right thing to do.h


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## OutofRetirement

I think you've got most of it now. What she is minimizing now is her current relationship with him. They are still rather chummy. She enjoys the flirting. I don't think she would agree, but she was going to head into this affair whether you two had a tragedy or not. It's rather cliche - meet hot new guy at work, he hits on other women with success, other women talk about his hotness, maybe they disparage his playboy style, then he turns his attention to your wife, and she is all in, she feels like a princess, the belle of the ball, the center of attention. He could have many others, but he chose her.

You know your wife pretty well. You knew that it couldn't be just physical, she wasn't the type for a no-strings-attached screw-fest. 

There is no way, zero, that many other people don't know about the affair. They weren't that close for that long without pretty much being a gossip situation.

I'm guessing she told you the truth because she wants to avoid the polygraph. There are some pretty clear signs that she is minimizing still. Because she is telling you that he comments on her body and the affair. The only way that could happen is if your wife allows it. She does not tell him to stop it. How hard do you think it is for her to put a stop to it. She enjoys feeling desired. I don't know of anyone who doesn't enjoy being liked, being desired, but if you have a sense of commitment and honesty and fear of losing what you've got with your spouse, you don't allow it to continue. You let them know that you are committed and your pursuits are not welcomed. You can do that with a former lover, a former spouse, and it is done all the time.

I suspect the "flirtation" before the tragedy was what you would consider to be more than just "flirting," and I suspect some of the other flirting afterwards was more than flirting by what any reasonable person would suspect. I suspect the affair started sooner and ended later than she said. Because your wife's affair was stereotypical, and that's what almost all cheaters lie about.

If you think posters here are psychic because they can predict your wife's behavior, they're not, it's just that your wife happened to be in an affair that any other spouse would have, without your extraordinary circumstances around the start of the affair. There are hundreds of affairs like your wife's affair on this forum so much so that you can just change the names and the dates. Fill-in the blank affair story. Doesn't have much to do with the tragedy. Sometimes there are stories with "my spouse's dad died" or "my spouse lost his job" or "there was absolutely nothing bad going on, everything was great." All with the same exact affair story from your wife.

If you were to stay, she'd have to leave that job. Not that that would affair-proof her, if there is such a thing. I'm not sure there is. I'm not sure that people's morals can be changed. I'm not talking about the flirting, I'm not talking about the affair itself, or even the lack of confessing, or lying after getting caught. I'm mainly talking about the contact she has with him outside of work even if you think it is work-related, knowing that he is regularly commenting to her on her body and the hot affair they had. And not doing anything about it. That new piece of information tells a lot about her.

Listen, this guy is not regularly doing that if she is not letting him know that it's OK. Furthermore, I'm guessing that she likes having a plan B from this guy, a "friend" (and I'm pretty sure she considers him a "good reliable friend" now), who gives her a little boost, kind of like a little financial cushion, a little rainy-day savings, except on the romantic side.

Since 2010-2011, would she have not done anything with him physically? I would think things have happened, maybe not full intercourse, but some physical touching beyond what coworkers or even friends would have. This would be something ongoing, maybe not regular, but happens from time to time, as she allows it when she is feeling down or anxious and needs a pick-me-up, a bit of support. A pat on her ass, a hand on her hip, a touch on her shoulder or her back.

She lied her way through the marriage counseling. Probably she never told her individual counseling, or just the tip of the iceberg. If you stay, probably those two things have to be re-done.

After the polygraph.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Also, I take you as a bad boy type. A former bad boy. From your teenage years. Probably something your wife found attractive toward you. You still can be a bit of a bad ass, usually just beneat the surface. It bubbles up now and then. But I think the other guy out-bad-boyed you. Definitely he took advantage of the situation. He was still in bad boy mode, when you had reined the bad boy stuff in, and stuff for you had fallen apart. I think the bad boy thing is a big part of it. Even now.


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## Bibi1031

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


That's the lynch mob for you. They treat every "WW" the same way. To the lynch mob, a WW is always scum under their shoe. Please take their advise with a grain of salt. The over the top of going too far is way too common for some of these folks. 

On another note, I am truly sorry for your precious two losses. I hope the DNA results come out positive for the 2 kiddos being yours, and the unborn baby boy be yours as well. 

Your family has gone through too much loss already. May you finally get peace and all the ripple effects of loss of children and false outlets of grief be a thing of the past. 

Which ever way your marriage ends up, we will be here to help you through your journey. 

Did your WW turn to other man because the illness of your child caused a crack in your marriage? Sadly the stress of having a deathly ill child or having a special needs child will create a huge crack in the couple. Few marriages survive this curve balls life throws.


----------



## faithfulman

Bibi1031 said:


> Did your WW turn to other man because the illness of your child caused a crack in your marriage? Sadly the stress of having a deathly ill child or having a special needs child will create a huge crack in the couple. Few marriages survive this curve balls life throws.


Geez Louise!! 

I really prefer not to engage with other posters in this way, but are we still trying to find excuses for this woman's behavior!? 

I wonder what "caused" her to engage in multiple incidents of homemade pornography with the other man? 

What "caused" her to keep on working with the the other man after he passed her an STD and continued to put the moves on her for years, including making comments about their horrible activity, to this day? (Assuming the truth sn't a lot worse which it probably is.) 

How about: "Because she wanted to"?


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## jsmart

The cracks in their marriage were not caused by the tragedy of losing their children. The cracks started when she started new job in January. She was attracted to him from the very beginning. By October of that year she was already in an EA with the guy. 

She's probably afraid to admit it but they probably were already holding hands at lunch, kissing, and telling each other how special they made each other feel before Christmas and New Years. The idea that 6 weeks after losing her 2nd child, she started having daily sex is with POS only makes sense if the affair was already in progress before she was on leave.

Now on her ending the sex affair only after catching an STD could be true. Nearly getting pregnant only slowed her down but if she was so in love that she was talking to him about divorcing you so she could run off with him, then even the story of an STD causing her to stop doesn't sound believable. During this time you were deep in your drunken stupor, so why would getting pregnant matter if she stopped caring for you? 

She said her therapist advised her to not confess but to get a new job. She listened to the advise on continuing to lie about the affair but the advise to leave the job was too much. You think it has to do with the desirability of her job or that she didn't want to alarm you by leaving her dream job but I'd argue that being next to POS was also high on the reason she didn't leave. Having him around always chasing after her, gives her a big emotional boost that she's grown addicted to. 

IDK, You need to dig deeper on when the physical affair ended. When was the REAL last time they had sex, or she gave him a blow job, they made out , or that she allowed him to feel her up. I'd wager that the occasional making out and allowing him to feel her up in his office probably lasted a few years.


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## [email protected]

Well, Idkaname, if she's a Mormon tell her she's in danger of dwelling in outer darkness.


----------



## Decorum

OutofRetirement said:


> I think you've got most of it now. What she is minimizing now is her current relationship with him. They are still rather chummy. She enjoys the flirting. I don't think she would agree, but she was going to head into this affair whether you two had a tragedy or not. It's rather cliche - meet hot new guy at work, he hits on other women with success, other women talk about his hotness, maybe they disparage his playboy style, then he turns his attention to your wife, and she is all in, she feels like a princess, the belle of the ball, the center of attention. He could have many others, but he chose her.
> 
> You know your wife pretty well. You knew that it couldn't be just physical, she wasn't the type for a no-strings-attached screw-fest.
> 
> There is no way, zero, that many other people don't know about the affair. They weren't that close for that long without pretty much being a gossip situation.
> 
> I'm guessing she told you the truth because she wants to avoid the polygraph. There are some pretty clear signs that she is minimizing still. Because she is telling you that he comments on her body and the affair. The only way that could happen is if your wife allows it. She does not tell him to stop it. How hard do you think it is for her to put a stop to it. She enjoys feeling desired. I don't know of anyone who doesn't enjoy being liked, being desired, but if you have a sense of commitment and honesty and fear of losing what you've got with your spouse, you don't allow it to continue. You let them know that you are committed and your pursuits are not welcomed. You can do that with a former lover, a former spouse, and it is done all the time.
> 
> I suspect the "flirtation" before the tragedy was what you would consider to be more than just "flirting," and I suspect some of the other flirting afterwards was more than flirting by what any reasonable person would suspect. I suspect the affair started sooner and ended later than she said. Because your wife's affair was stereotypical, and that's what almost all cheaters lie about.
> 
> If you think posters here are psychic because they can predict your wife's behavior, they're not, it's just that your wife happened to be in an affair that any other spouse would have, without your extraordinary circumstances around the start of the affair. There are hundreds of affairs like your wife's affair on this forum so much so that you can just change the names and the dates. Fill-in the blank affair story. Doesn't have much to do with the tragedy. Sometimes there are stories with "my spouse's dad died" or "my spouse lost his job" or "there was absolutely nothing bad going on, everything was great." All with the same exact affair story from your wife.
> 
> If you were to stay, she'd have to leave that job. Not that that would affair-proof her, if there is such a thing. I'm not sure there is. I'm not sure that people's morals can be changed. I'm not talking about the flirting, I'm not talking about the affair itself, or even the lack of confessing, or lying after getting caught. I'm mainly talking about the contact she has with him outside of work even if you think it is work-related, knowing that he is regularly commenting to her on her body and the hot affair they had. And not doing anything about it. That new piece of information tells a lot about her.
> 
> Listen, this guy is not regularly doing that if she is not letting him know that it's OK. Furthermore, I'm guessing that she likes having a plan B from this guy, a "friend" (and I'm pretty sure she considers him a "good reliable friend" now), who gives her a little boost, kind of like a little financial cushion, a little rainy-day savings, except on the romantic side.
> 
> Since 2010-2011, would she have not done anything with him physically? I would think things have happened, maybe not full intercourse, but some physical touching beyond what coworkers or even friends would have. This would be something ongoing, maybe not regular, but happens from time to time, as she allows it when she is feeling down or anxious and needs a pick-me-up, a bit of support. A pat on her ass, a hand on her hip, a touch on her shoulder or her back.
> 
> She lied her way through the marriage counseling. Probably she never told her individual counseling, or just the tip of the iceberg. If you stay, probably those two things have to be re-done.
> 
> After the polygraph.


This is the truth right here!


----------



## Decorum

faithfulman said:


> *SHE IS STILL LYING!!!* You don't have the whole story, the full scope of her betrayal and depravity.
> 
> Trust me on this: Somebody who can do something this horrible, keep it a secret and sleep at night, has probably done other terrible things.
> 
> I don't see how you can stay with this person. For your own sake, and for the sake of your children, who are yours, DNA test or not, you need to leave this woman and find someone who has a modicum of decency.
> 
> Good luck idkaname.


She must take the polygraph, when she can!!!

There is something she is hiding, maybe another affair.


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## MattMatt

[email protected] said:


> Well, Idkaname, if she's a Mormon tell her she's in danger of dwelling in outer darkness.


That is not the case.


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## arobk

What I get from the new revelations. The other man is still scum, but not as scummy as someone who would target a person going through a personal tragedy. Going after a married woman is scummy, but going after one who just suffered a loss is more scummy.

Your wife can't be trusted to tell you the truth. Her story after you found the pic was not true at all. She was willing to use the death of your daughter and your drinking as an excuse for something that started before either of those things happened. There is very little reason to believe her current version of events.

For the nice lady complaining about the speculation around the kids' deaths. 71% of children murdered by a parent are killed by their mother. It is one of the few areas of murder that women exceed men. The primary reason given in these cases is to escape responsibility associated with the relationship they wish to leave. Not a pretty truth, but the reality is often not pretty.


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## MattMatt

jsmart said:


> IDK, when you learned these additional new details, did you ask her point blank how she could desecrate the memory of your deceased kids?
> 
> I would bet my next mortgage payment that she was already pulling away from you at the time the the tragedy struck, which could have been another reason why you fell down the well so far. Her emotional distance was probably what made you blame her. She blamed you for not being there but the truth is that she was not there BEFORE this went down.
> 
> I've read over a 1000 threads on these forums and can usually pickup things and read between the lines quickly. It's skill most of us TAMers have. I think if you really think back to that painful period, you will find that you were seeing the signs of her emotionally pulling away from you as she started her affair but you must have ignored your gut wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt. Then when tragedy struck, she abandoned you when you needed her most. She didn't need you because she was already involved with POS.
> 
> There were a few here that tried to excuse your wife's actions and come down especially hard on you but now we've learn how this pre-dates the passing of your children and the beginning of your drinking, that her affair and her actions now reveal a woman that is very callous and self centered. Because even now, with her due date approaching, she can't find it in herself to admit that she's an adulterous woman. I can only imagine the shame her father must have felt learning how dark his daughter is.


That's not true. NOBODY here has tried to excuse her behaviour. Some might have tried to offer a comment on why she might have done certain things.


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## Bibi1031

This couple's pain did not start with their first little angel's death. It began with the terrible and unfair disease that took that child's life. Stop trying to push your agenda folks. 

What his wife did was wrong, but this does happen often enough that a pattern emerges. Humans are very vulnerable creatures and don't take illness's of partners, parents, or children well. It is very hard **** to get through. Pain and suffering makes us humans do terrible, selfish things instead of holding on to our values and loved ones.

The easy answer is that she did it because she wanted to. She turned to OM because she was in a dark place at the time. She stayed in that dark place for years. She fell prey to a man that took advantage of her by romancing her in the worst of ways. When she was trying to deal with her child's illness. It was a terrible mistake on her part because his lending ear and empathy masked his real reasons which were to get in her pants.

Like a fool, she fell for his game hook, line, and sinker. We have all been foolish and done some pretty stupid things in the name of whatever. 

She remained in the job for senseless fear that her husband would be tipped off and also to punish herself. Not very smart of her, but that was her answer. 

Just because some of you consider her outlet worse than OP doesn't change the fact that this marriage was going through a very severe crisis and both parents self medicated their pain and suffering with bad choices that were very detrimental to the marriage.


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## lucy999

@arobk respectfully, that road has been closed. Let's not talk about that speculation. I don't want to quote you bc it's already been discussed. That's NOT what happened here.


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## personofinterest

Opie, be aware that for some posters, this is their version of reality television. We really don't have to know every gruesome detail of your life to give you solid advice. This is just one of those cases where people driving by a horific accident want to rubberneck so that they can see the details of all the injuries. There's no need to know about half of what people insist they need to know. Like I said, it's their reality TV.


----------



## SunCMars

Bibi1031 said:


> This couple's pain did not start with their first little angel's death. It began with the terrible and unfair disease that took that child's life. Stop trying to push your agenda folks.
> 
> What his wife did was wrong, but this does happen often enough that a pattern emerges. Humans are very vulnerable creatures and don't take illness's of partners, parents, or children well. It is very hard **** to get through. Pain and suffering makes us humans do terrible, selfish things instead of holding on to our values and loved ones.
> 
> The easy answer is that she did it because she wanted to. She turned to OM because she was in a dark place at the time. She stayed in that dark place for years. She fell prey to a man that took advantage of her by romancing her in the worst of ways. When she was trying to deal with her child's illness. It was a terrible mistake on her part because his lending ear and empathy masked his real reasons which were to get in her pants.
> 
> Like a fool, she fell for his game hook, line, and sinker. We have all been foolish and done some pretty stupid things in the name of whatever.
> 
> She remained in the job for senseless fear that her husband would be tipped off and also to punish herself. Not very smart of her, but that was her answer.
> 
> Just because some of you consider her outlet worse than OP doesn't change the fact that this marriage was going through a very severe crisis and both parents self medicated their pain and suffering with bad choices that were very detrimental to the marriage.


Thank you!

You are brave to write this. 

However, the photos and videos 'were' over the top.
Taken by the POS pervert jerk, not her.

Our minds are fragile and capable of horrendous things.
Since we did not create ourselves we can only be chastised and berated...so much.

She laid down naked with a jerk while in a broken state of mind, she did not commit murder.

Either forgive or move on.

I can accept either, but not having abject hatred.

This is life, life can, does suck, often and repeatedly.

Brush yourself off, move on with whatever time is generously offered to you.





[THM]- SCM


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## Deejo

The absolute and utter perverse speculation in this thread is quite frankly, sickening.

It isn't in any way, shape, or form, helpful or supportive.

Some of you seriously need to step away from the keyboard, or at the very least work on a bit of self-regulation.

If you can't do that, I'm here to help.


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## dubsey

double post


----------



## dubsey

Honestly, the thing that would probably bother me the most after getting all that info would be, that, when she checked on you while passed out and didn't care if you were dead, at the time, there's a high probability that she hoped you were dead, so she could start life over with OM, rather than to have to pick up the pieces and rebuild one with you.

that, of all things, I'm not sure I could ever get over.

Were you there for her? No, but that's a two way street she wasn't on either.


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## BluesPower

Post removed.


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## Chuck71

OP....bit late to your thread. You've been through enough "hells" for 20 people. I am truly amazed how

you have pulled yourself through this. Dunno if I could have. Everything's been covered 

already so I will just add this. You can not truly love, without trust. You can.... but it is a very unhealthy

love. You can push down the hurt for only so long. Then it will rear its ugly head.

My experience to share is....after my DDay about ten days later, she stopped coming home during 

the week. She did come home on the weekends. This went on for about five weeks.

The very day I let "everything go," next night she was home every night. Oh...she wanted to talk, just

not about the pending D or the M. After a couple weeks of this, I left the house. It took about two 

weeks away from her to realize, I have nothing to go back to, I'm done. Like clockwork she began

dropping hints for me to come back home. But those five weeks, I don't know if she was with some guy

or not, her walking out on the M was a deal breaker for me. When I stepped into the Tao, her actions

meant nothing to me if it was not about finances and the D final date. The period of time I speak of

was from Nov '12 to Jan '13. Very short time frame. For the last six-plus years she periodically makes

reaches. If you have ever seen Star Wars..... I was Luke vs. Vader in epi. 5 during the early stages of 

the end. By the D final, I was Luke vs. Vader in epi. 6. After the 100% not having to see her any

longer.... I am still Luke, she is still Vader but I don't even need a light sabre anymore. 

If you decide to D, you will also follow this path. It's a hard path but I feel the right one when your

deal breakers are broken.


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## FieryHairedLady

I am late to the thread. I have now got caught up on everything. 

What I would like to say is how very sorry I am about your children. A parent should never have to bury a child. I have and it hurts like hell.

This turn of events with the wife is horrible. 

She should of come clean 9 years ago so you could of made an informed decision on whether or not to stay with her and thus have more kids with her.

The ball is in your court now.

What to do? What to do.

The good thing is no decisions need to be made asap.

Yes get the dna test asap.

You have already gotten alot of good advice.

Don't make any decisions in haste.

Yes give her space and try to make the next few weeks and delivery as stress free as possible.

Yes give her time to recuperate.

When is it time to put the hammer down? 

idk

You may decide to reconcile or you may not.

But if you do decide to leave...for the kids sake, don't make it a war zone. 

Hold your head high and do what you need to do for you and for the kids.


You both made mistakes in this marriage it is true. You both have had to deal with extraordinary circumstances. 


I heard what you said about the drinking and you shutting her out. You can't shut women out. You needed to be there for her. She needed to be there for you. 

Blaming someone for their child's death is horrible: I don't know to what extent you were abusive to her.

????? You don't have to answer that. But this is internet life, we only know what you tell us. 

I think @aine was right when she said this woman probably should of left you. 


She is not getting a free pass from me, neither are you. 


She should of quit that job and come clean a long time ago. 


I have to agree with some posters here. Her choosing to not tell you she messed up, her choosing to not quit that job, her choosing to not cut him out of her life entirely....

This really doesn't sound good at all.


On one hand we have a few people portraying this woman as someone heartbroken, dealing with grief, made bad decisions, tossed aside from her husband, etc.

But there is alot more going on then meets the eye.

She continued working with him and still does 9 years later.

If she was out of the affair fog you think she would be embarrassed as all get out and cringing. You would think she couldn't run away fast enough.

But she is still there.

I think that is very significant.

All those years of counseling and she never broke down and told you what she did?

I don't think this affair truly ever ended.

Do what you think is best for you and your kids.


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## jsmart

IDK, how are you holding up? Are you taking care of your health? How is your wife's pregnancy going? is her health holding up? How are your little girls doing? They may not know what's going on but will notice the tension between mommy and daddy. As the leader of the home, it falls on you to reassure them that everything is going to be ok.

Did you receive the DNA kits? If so, have you administered and submitted the test? I hope you know that everyone at TAM is hoping and praying you get positive test results for both and the one that's soon to arrive.

Have you reached out to OM's wife? This should be a MUST. Don't let that POS get off Scott free. I'm sure his wife will not think it's ok for him to work closely with a woman that he had a sexual relationship with, especially if he's still hitting on her. Another angle is HR. They were carrying out the affair in work during work hours. So you can make noise there as well. I would make this POS life hell.


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## BarbedFenceRider

Talks of life together with OM....Even having sex after contracting STD......Continues to "flirt" read:Sexual harrassment at work........Blame shifts the poor hubby for drinking and the death of a child, even when the affair was BEFORE said "familial problems"......


I'm sorry, but you have some serious shade going on here. Plan B. With no regard to YOUR wellbeing, physical (ie. STD) or emotional (therapist bull).

I will be really sad when you get the results from the DNA tests....This IS the tip of the iceburg. Not much lemonade coming from these lemons.


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## FieryHairedLady

I had to run off to an appointment earlier before I could finish my thoughts.

The other thing I wanted to say was this. I am very impressed you were able to get it together and get off the bottle after indulging for a year. Losing 2 kids is a nightmare no parent should suffer. That is great you got help and then also worked on the marriage issues and owned up to your part. 

Well done sir.

Stay the course. Your kids need you.


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## GoldenR

She stopped the affair, but it took her several months after to stop having sex with him? 

I don't get it.


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## ABHale

idkaname said:


> She met him jan '09 and was attracted to him. They started flirting around oct '09 but swears no physical contact. We lost our daughters in feb and march '10. She went back to work may '10. He knew what was going on in our home. Talked and confided in him for two weeks. In a private moment at work he kissed her and touched her. Kept doing that. Few days later she slept with him. Every day for 3 months. Birth control but no condoms. Had a false pregnancy scare, realized what she was doing. "Stopped" the affair. Sex tapered off over 3 or 4 months. Caught an STD and stopped completely after that. Lost feelings. Hasn't had sex with him since. Doesn't flirt with him. He kept trying to kiss her and touch her for a year or two. She claims to have stopped it. He still comments on her body and the affair. Most of the sex was at his condo. Sometimes in their office and oral in their cars. She thought she loved him and they talked about a future together before she claims to have snapped out of it. She doesn't want to be labeled a cheater.


This would be enough for me to call it quits.


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## TRy

idkaname said:


> My wife can't cause cancer or drunk drivers. That's going too far people.


 Maybe not cancer, but do you know how many cheater cause their spouses to become "drunk drivers"?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry IDK, this happens and you got it all. You get the generalizations, the ironic generazliations, both sides of the lynch mob and the grandstanding. Heck you even received the gender biased steam roll from both sides.

Take a break, cool off, think carefully and do not feel guilty about your choice.



Let me tell you a secret, it is OKAY to think about you and what you want right now to get right. 
You are not a bad or horrible person for being angry, disgusted, moritified and hurt by her actions. 
You are not a bad or horrible person for wanting to end your marriage over an old affair, it is brand new to you.
You are not a bad or horrible person for being selfish about yourself or your investigation, you lived a lie for a decade.

Remember, if you are broken yourself, how can you fix a broken marriage? You can't.

Again, this is not a post for or against divorce. It is about you fixing yourself before deciding on starting a new or ending your marriage.


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## NJ2

What your WW has said to me rings true. I actually think she has given you most of the timeline- its very unflattering to her and yet she disclosed the sordid details. I told my h what details he ASKED for and nothing more. She seems like she was much more forth coming with you. I also believe that she is telling the truth about when she ended the sex. 

It makes sense. Yes for the male the close proximity of working together would encourage him to keep trying and fishing to see if shes interested ...how about now...no well how about now?.....she has said this. As a female she may have felt used - particularly after the implications of the STD became real. She may have surmised he had other AP's and got an STD from one and passed it to her. Nothing like a heavy dose of special snowflake being snuffed out.

I left my place of work after my A as did my AP. Circumstances with admin were not the best so I cant really say i left because it was the right thing to do. My AP continued to reach out at large company functions that brought everyone together. I was flattered when he did this but also realized that I was just a pawn in his little scenarios. I realized he was a predator of sorts and this made me feel contempt for him.25 years later he reached out through my DD- offering her a student placement at his place of work when he saw her name come across is desk. He told her how much they all loved me....she also told me how he said very sexually inappropriate things to colleagues and behaved very immaturely- telling dirty jokes etc. I can see him for who he is. I also see myself for who I was. An immature silly naive selfish girl who wanted to think she was "special" in someones eyes. 

It is quite possible your wife sees this jerk as a nauseating mistake and sees herself as a fool. The acts happened 9 years ago. It would have been nice if you had known and could have made the decision for yourself back then as to whether or not yo stayed. But----almost zero WS ever come clean willingiy and for no reason at the time of an A- not even when they are caught red handed. It goes against the survival instinct. Many years later the risk doesnt seem as deadly (although it can be)

Your wife is not extraordinary. She behaved badly. She dealt with her grief in a ****ty horrid way (as did you) She covered up her sins and kept the secret as 99% (or some very high statistic) of those who cheat do-The death of a child destroys many marriages without any A needed. Yours survived this far. It can overcome this. You can both be extraordinary.


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## Bibi1031

GoldenR said:


> She stopped the affair, but it took her several months after to stop having sex with him?
> 
> I don't get it.


The affair high prolly had a lot to do with that. Please remember she actually thought this douche bag of another man was her second chance at love...gag me. It took her several red flags later to figure out this man simply used her. 

Someone as broken as she was, could not possibly attract a decent guy because decent guys don't prey on forbidden fruit who is going through the terrible illness of a child as well. 

IDK, I truly hope all your babies are truly yours!


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## GoldenR

Bibi1031 said:


> The affair high prolly had a lot to do with that. Please remember she actually thought this douche bag of another man was her second chance at love...gag me. It took her several red flags later to figure out this man simply used her.




Well then she didn't stop the affair.


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## [email protected]

Idkaname. she voluntarily threw you under the bus and gave herself and her trust to the POSOM. You reported that she said she loved him at the time. And all this came out nine years later. I'd bet there were other incidences in those nine years. Nope! She was somebody's playgirl and you were (or are) plan B.


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## Marc878

Bibi1031 said:


> The affair high prolly had a lot to do with that. Please remember she actually thought this douche bag of another man was her second chance at love...gag me. It took her several red flags later to figure out this man simply used her.
> 
> 
> Nope, she was using him just as much as he was using her. Cheaters use and feed off each other. She knew who and what he was if you read back but chose him anyway.
> 
> 
> Someone as broken as she was, could not possibly attract a decent guy because decent guys don't prey on forbidden fruit who is going through the terrible illness of a child as well.
> 
> IDK, I truly hope all your babies are truly yours!


You are like a betrayed spouse trying to put the blame on the AP because they can't fathom the truth. He was only taking what she was willingly giving. 

I got news for you. Doing porn with an AP doesn't correlate to a second chance at love.

She isn't some Polyanna fresh off the farm that someone took advantage of.


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## phillybeffandswiss

idkaname said:


> Her dad called me to talk about it. He won't be shocked if we divorce. He knows her side of the story and doesn't agree with her choices or what she is blaming.


I want you to remember this when times get tough. You have great inlaws. The fact he admitted this and is understanding says two things. He is thoroughly disgusted and you are still family. I am a father and it would take a severe mess up for me to be this brutally honest. That's his baby girl and you know that love. There is nothing like it, including how you felt about your wife before the tragedy.

Look, none of the sides taken matter. 

How you feels does matter.

Trust me, if you cannot let it go then it is best for all if you divorce. Yes, for the kids. 

No, I didn't divorce, but I was close and my story is nowhere near yours at all. What I had to learn was being angry is okay, displaying the anger is not. This includes fuming, silent treatment, angry outburst, snide remarks, using it as a win in an argument and bringing it up off topic in different arguments. This is a small sample. I do not have pictures, videos, my wife never worked with guy, he was dating her friend, a few inappropriate texts and no proof of secret meetings. Yes, I followed her few times. 

I am a firm fence sitter. I think it takes an equal amount of strength to divorce, just as it does to stay after an affair and reconcile. If you feel it may destroy your kids or you divorce. Yes, I didn't add your wife. She lived a reconciliation LIE for 6-9 years. 

Sorry, I've read too many threads and know too many people who remained together and it screwed up their kids because they weren't 100% committed. BOTH OF YOU. It cannot be one sided where you coast and nitpick, bringing it up when she upsets you. The same goes for her. She doesn't get to blame the therapist, the OM, your drinking or the deaths she needs to own it. 

Once you calm down and the separation is over, you are not a weak person for saying "no more, I am done."
Nor are you weak for saying "okay let's reconcile."

Just make sure you are selfish and make the initial decision for YOU. YOU have to be sure YOU can do it and not for anyone else, but for you. Then you think of the kids, the family and your wife. 

The sentence applies to divorce or reconciliation. Either choice requires 100% honesty and 100% commitment.


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## Chaparral

Bibi1031 said:


> This couple's pain did not start with their first little angel's death. It began with the terrible and unfair disease that took that child's life. Stop trying to push your agenda folks.
> 
> What his wife did was wrong, but this does happen often enough that a pattern emerges. Humans are very vulnerable creatures and don't take illness's of partners, parents, or children well. It is very hard **** to get through. Pain and suffering makes us humans do terrible, selfish things instead of holding on to our values and loved ones.
> 
> The easy answer is that she did it because she wanted to. She turned to OM because she was in a dark place at the time. She stayed in that dark place for years. She fell prey to a man that took advantage of her by romancing her in the worst of ways. When she was trying to deal with her child's illness. It was a terrible mistake on her part because his lending ear and empathy masked his real reasons which were to get in her pants.
> 
> Like a fool, she fell for his game hook, line, and sinker. We have all been foolish and done some pretty stupid things in the name of whatever.
> 
> She remained in the job for senseless fear that her husband would be tipped off and also to punish herself. Not very smart of her, but that was her answer.
> 
> Just because some of you consider her outlet worse than OP doesn't change the fact that this marriage was going through a very severe crisis and both parents self medicated their pain and suffering with bad choices that were very detrimental to the marriage.


This is one of the very few posts on this thread that has made any sense. The base cruelty I have seen in this thread is quite frankly saddening and embarrassing. 

Abandoning family in crisis for alcohol is not even close to acceptable. When going through hell, the answer is not to pretend it isn’t happening. As a husband, your main job is to protect your family, not crawl away from trouble.

I doubt at the time with her children and her husband gone that she could care less what happened to her. Grasping at straws is a last gasp result.

Coming from a large family with many deaths over the years from babies to oldsters, the lack of compassion here is criminal. And yes I have seen alcholoism up close. There isn’t much worse. I know at least ten people that have destroyed themselves and their families including trying to take their wife with them.


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## SunCMars

For some, the dirty details further inure, harden them to those that fall to deceit, bend to wicked ways.
For some, the dirty details melt away cataractic sight, giving clarity, seeing all those weak and failing souls, falling all about. 

If you can forgive others their sins, you have progressed one giant step.





[THM]- SunCMars


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Chaparral said:


> This is one of the very few posts on this thread that has made any sense. The base cruelty I have seen in this thread is quite frankly saddening and embarrassing.
> 
> Abandoning family in crisis for alcohol is not even close to acceptable. When going through hell, the answer is not to pretend it isn’t happening. As a husband, your main job is to protect your family, not crawl away from trouble.
> 
> I doubt at the time with her children and her husband gone that she could care less what happened to her. Grasping at straws is a last gasp result.
> 
> Coming from a large family with many deaths over the years from babies to oldsters, the lack of compassion here is criminal. And yes I have seen alcholoism up close. There isn’t much worse. I know at least ten people that have destroyed themselves and their families including trying to take their wife with them.


I'm sure you have seen many horrible things come out of a bottle, as have many of us. 

But in this case, the turning to the bottle was fairly narrow in time scope, and then OP moved on. 

It is also important to note that the bottle is not another human being. Adultery is a whole different level of turning a way from your partner and your marriage. There is no comparison. 

And while OP got completely clean and sober, and never hid or lied about his time with the bottle, his wife maintained mementos of her affair all the while until caught, perpetuated her secrecy and lies, and instead of acknowledging and owning her adultery as her husband has acknowledged and owned the damage caused by his drinking, she just expects him to let it go. 

Yes, there is no comparison on many levels.


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## Jus260

Chaparral said:


> This is one of the very few posts on this thread that has made any sense. The base cruelty I have seen in this thread is quite frankly saddening and embarrassing.
> 
> Abandoning family in crisis for alcohol is not even close to acceptable. When going through hell, the answer is not to pretend it isn’t happening. As a husband, your main job is to protect your family, not crawl away from trouble.
> 
> I doubt at the time with her children and her husband gone that she could care less what happened to her. Grasping at straws is a last gasp resul



If they had experienced the family tragedy but he didn't become an alcoholic, would the affair still have been his fault? From everything I've read today, this affair train was rolling before the tragedy. 


In response to another part of your post that I didn't quote, I've seen a lot of alcoholism in my family. 4 of the 8 kids in my mother's family were addicts. My grandmother kicked my uncle out of the house on Christmas day. By the time we got to the house, he was drunk, sitting in a chair, crying. By the time I was 13, I had seen some really bad things all due to drugs and alcohol.


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## faithfulman

Chaparral said:


> *This is one of the very few posts on this thread that has made any sense. The base cruelty I have seen in this thread is quite frankly saddening and embarrassing. *
> 
> Abandoning family in crisis for alcohol is not even close to acceptable. When going through hell, the answer is not to pretend it isn’t happening. As a husband, your main job is to protect your family, not crawl away from trouble.
> 
> I doubt at the time with her children and her husband gone that she could care less what happened to her. Grasping at straws is a last gasp result.
> 
> Coming from a large family with many deaths over the years from babies to oldsters, the lack of compassion here is criminal. And yes I have seen alcholoism up close. There isn’t much worse. I know at least ten people that have destroyed themselves and their families including trying to take their wife with them.






Jus260 said:


> *If they had experienced the family tragedy but he didn't become an alcoholic, would the affair still have been his fault? From everything I've read today, this affair train was rolling before the tragedy. *
> 
> 
> In response to another part of your post that I didn't quote, I've seen a lot of alcoholism in my family. 4 of the 8 kids in my mother's family were addicts. My grandmother kicked my uncle out of the house on Christmas day. By the time we got to the house, he was drunk, sitting in a chair, crying. By the time I was 13, I had seen some really bad things all due to drugs and alcohol.



Exactly!

Turning to alcohol after the deaths of your children is *really bad* but normal. It happens and is a bad thing to do. But it happens all the time in these cases. But it is still bad!!

Having daily porn-making sex with your affair partner is not normal! It is totally ****ed up! It's crazy ****ed up!


But I do agree with Chaparral. The base cruelty displayed on this thread is remarkable. The base cruelty to the OP that is!

He has been blamed for his wife's heinous adultery, her adultery has been excused by "this made her do it, that made her do it", "she could not care about what happened to her", "She was taken advantage of" and other silly explanation of her inexcusable, vile and cruel behavior, all while ignoring the facts of what she did, that it started prior to the deaths of the children, that daily sex with another man while making porn with him are in no way part of any normal grieving process, that she kept mementos of that time, that she has kept in contact with this man FOR YEARS, and that she has lied about it all throughout, including letting OP eat all the blame in marriage counseling.

Honestly, I have never seen anything like this before, not even on SI!

All this compassion for somebody who perpetuated an incredibly disgusting betrayal, while it seems that many have forgotten that the children were his as well.

Have some compassion for the OP. He is the victim. The title of the thread is "Wife had an affair 9 years ago".

Tragedy is not a mitigating circumstance for an extended affair that began before the tragedy and included video and photographic documentation of sexual acts. His wife is not the victim.


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## TJW

faithfulman said:


> Tragedy is not a mitigating circumstance for an extended affair that began before the tragedy and included video and photographic documentation of sexual acts. His wife is not the victim.


An adulterer never acts out of victimhood, they act out of feel-good. Affairs are never the fault of the BS.


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## personofinterest

There is not one person on this thread who has blamed the original poster for his wife's affair. This is a silly red herrings. It is possible to understand that the wife is fully responsible for the affair and still have human sympathy for the loss she suffered. People need to get over themselves and use their brains.


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## faithfulman

personofinterest said:


> *There is not one person on this thread who has blamed the original poster for his wife's affair.* This is a silly red herrings.


You haven't read the entire thread if you believe this is true.




personofinterest said:


> It is possible to understand that the wife is fully responsible for the affair and still have human sympathy for the loss she suffered.


The loss as a "reason" for her affair have been conflated in this thread over and over again.


the OP's turn to alchohol after his children's loss has also been conflated with her behavior.

Read the thread.




personofinterest said:


> People need to get over themselves and use their brains.



Please read the thread and then do that.


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## personofinterest

faithfulman said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> *There is not one person on this thread who has blamed the original poster for his wife's affair.* This is a silly red herrings.
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't read the entire thread if you believe this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is possible to understand that the wife is fully responsible for the affair and still have human sympathy for the loss she suffered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The loss as a "reason" for her affair have been conflated in this thread over and over again.
> 
> 
> the OP's turn to alchohol after his children's loss has also been conflated with her behavior.
> 
> Read the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> People need to get over themselves and use their brains.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please read the thread and then do that.
Click to expand...

 I have read it. I just understand how not to project, how to be objective, and what nuance is. I am sorry others cannot do that.


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## BruceBanner

TRy said:


> Maybe not cancer, but do you know how many cheater cause their spouses to become "drunk drivers"?


Isn't there an STD that can give you prostate cancer? I think a user on here got it from an STD their partner gave them.


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## Deejo

Thread closed. 

If OP wishes to post an update or receive further feedback, he is free to PM me and I will reopen or encourage him to start a new one.


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## Tempocontour

I hope you are well idkaname


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