# Money Problems - Taking A Break ?



## Markie (May 4, 2011)

hello all,

i am in need of advice, and do not feel like i can discuss this with close friends or family members for various reasons,

i am a guy and i have been with my g/f (now fiance) for 4 years total and engaged for 1 and a half of those years,

i moved in with her just about a year ago, she owns her house (with mortgage), she makes very good money, and i have a small home business that i run which my income fluctuates very frequently and is not a very reliable income,

i will not sugar coat things, to be honest she pays most of our bills and i pay minor things such as food and gas etc etc, she has never complained about this and seems fine with it,

we never really discussed our money situations before i moved in or before we got engaged which was a big mistake, i could tell over the past 6 months she has been struggling with bills although she never talks to me about it or complains about my lack of financial support,

i have confronted her about things and have now found out that she has alot of fairly serious consumer debt, it is to the point now where she can not afford to pay some credit cards and we might end up losing the house eventually,

i am stressed and do not know what to do, i love her very much and i want to be with her and marry her there is no doubt about that, 

sometimes i feel like a temporary seperation would be best for the time being, us not living together but still seeing each other while i let her work things out, 

does this sound reasonable or odd?

sometimes i feel like it would be for the best in the long term, and sometimes i feel like that would be basically running away from the problem instead of confronting it, 

i am not financially able to help her pay all of her bills or i would,

for the most part she is responsible, but there are sometimes where we go out and she spends alot of money on entertainment and dinners but then cant afford the bills so i guess that is being a bit irresponsible, although i hate to say that,

i just dont know what to do,


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

First off, what does moving out do for the situation? I don't understand. If you are thinking, "she got herself into this mess and she has to get herself out," then fine. But I don't see a connection between where you live and her debt. Maybe you need to be more clear about what's going on.

Second, no matter the reason, her situation needs to be addressed honestly by the two of you. Was she talked into a mortgage she can't afford (low payments for X number of years that led to a balloon payment and now really high payments?) Did this then lead her to use her credit cards? Has most of her consumer debt been necessaties or extravagances (like the dinners you describe)? It is one thing to have made a single financial judgment that goes wrong (the risky mortgages that everyone was told they could refinance when the time came, but has proven false) vs. a continuing series of bad decisions and excess spending. You have a right to know her spending patterns unless she wants a pre-nup that insulates you from her financial errors.

If the only reason you want to leave is b/c the stress level in the relationship is currently pretty high, that's not such a good sign. You can do couples counseling even if you aren't married. But, if you really just want out, then go. You aren't married yet and it sounds like you haven't contributed to her financial distress. Rescuing her might be noble but it wouldn't really solve anything. If you feel like leaving, go.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

thanks for your reply,

i am only estimating, but i feel like her consumer debt would be about 50/50 between necessaties or extravagances....she does like to over indulge sometimes,

she lived in this house with an ex-husband many years ago and has been on her own now for a number of years, so she probably got the mortgage together with him,

when they split she took on the mortgage herself and i guess i just assumed she could handle it by herself because she seemed to be doing fine until recently,

the ex-husband probably chipped in with the bills more than i have, but she did live here alone for many years,


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So what are you doing to address the situation? Like getting a job that provides a more stable income so you can help with things? Have you sat down and talked with her about the situation? 

Here's my ideas...

- Have an open discussion about the financial issues that are happening. Then brainstorm on ways to resolve them. Lay out a budget, etc...

- Research and attend financial counseling (both of you)

- Take some financial planning books out of the library, and work together to lay out a plan

- Put yourself in a situation where you can contribute more (financially) to the relationship. How are you going to survive on your own if you can't survive when someone else is paying the majority of the bills?

- Attend marriage/relationship counseling, as it seems you two might have some communication issues to deal with. Ideally, these things would come up before they become deal breakers. 

I don't mean to lay all the blame on you... She obviously has some money management issues to work on as well. But you're the one posting in here.  And the only person who's behaviour you can control is your own.

C


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

thanks for the reply....

i am not blaming everything on her because some of the "indulging" i do myself also....i feel very guilty and partly responsible for us losing the house (if it comes to that) because now i am blaming myself for not contributing more which is making me feel worse and more depressed....

looking back now, i would not have allowed or participated in most of our indulging if i knew what was going on with her bills....but at the time i didnt know....i have always been under the impression that she was affording things comfortably....


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Markie, so now that you know, the question is "What are you going to do about it?" Is running away to leave her to deal with it the right answer?

There really seems to be two issues here... Financial and communication. If you two are going to work things out, you need to address both of them. Heck, even for your own sake, it really seems that you need to work on both of them (again, picking on you because you're the one posting here)... Otherwise you run the risk of the same problems in the next relationship.

Good luck!

C


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

PBear said:


> Is running away to leave her to deal with it the right answer?


that is what im trying to decide :scratchhead:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why not sit down with her and make up a budget? A tight budget that eliminates ALL the optional stuff. The credit card companies will usually agree to a payment plan if you stick with it. 

As for your business, if you really worked hard could you increase the average amount you earn by 20-30 percent? I get that it 
"fluctuates" but I also would guess that if you worked a lot more for the next year or so you could crank you income up a decent amount. Or you could get a regular job. 

I agree that she should have talked to you about all this. And also believe that if she isn't willing to make and stick to a tight budget than maybe you should leave. But if she is, and you care about her, you should step up and try to make this all work. 

Is the house worth more than the mortgage? 




Markie said:


> that is what im trying to decide :scratchhead:


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Is the house worth more than the mortgage?


thanks for your suggestions....

the house is worth more than the mortgage....i asked her if she would be able to pay off all of her debts if we sell the house and she said no with kind of a bit of a chuckle, so i took that to mean she would still owe alot....


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

This is a GREAT opportunity to see how you guys resolve problems together. Solve the problem *together*.

This is a multiple step process:

- Get your hands on a cope of Total Money Makeover. Both of you read it together, discuss and implement. 

Part of what you will learn in the book is budgeting. Forget about blame gaming who was more frivolous when business. From hence FORTH, you are going to learn financial discipline together. IF either of you cannot do that, does not do that discipline learning, then you might have another decision to make.

- Next step is for you to get gainfully employed. You need to do this regardless of whether you remain together or not. If your business does not even support you, then get out. Get a job.

If you cannot or will not work with her on this, then you probably are not ready to even consider marriage. So this is excellent like marriage with training wheels on!

Good luck.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

thanks for the replies....

i guess im thinking in the back of my head its mostly her mess....maybe i also fear that if i DO help her out of this that the same thing might happen again (on her end)....i dont know this for sure but i think she took out a second mortgage to pay off debts once before....

i am also thinking about doing some travelling alone to have some time to myself and think about this whole situation....i have always wanted to travel alone....i know she would not have a problem with that but i fear it might make me feel worse because that is money i could be using to help her out...and the whole time i am away i might be feeling guilty....

i am majorly  but thanks for the help....


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

In my opinion, if you are willing to give up over such a teeny issue, you are likely not ready to be married.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

This isn't about you rescuing her it's about sticking with her while she figures it out. You've got to take that man hat off. You are right this is her mess but it's not your responsibility to fix it. If you were to just magically make it all better then you are right she would likely do it again but if you let her suffer the consequences of her actions while you stay strong she won't do it again. She will learn from her mistakes (hopefully but you won't know until you try). Don't marry her until you find out though. Financial problems is in top reasons of many arguments and divorces.

And I also agree if you aren't willing to stand by her then you aren't ready to be married. I've been married almost 20 years and we've had more than our share of adversities. Its just life.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> This isn't about you rescuing her it's about sticking with her while she figures it out. You've got to take that man hat off. You are right this is her mess but it's not your responsibility to fix it. If you were to just magically make it all better then you are right she would likely do it again but if you let her suffer the consequences of her actions while you stay strong she won't do it again. She will learn from her mistakes (hopefully but you won't know until you try). Don't marry her until you find out though. Financial problems is in top reasons of many arguments and divorces.


This brings up a good point. No one here, not one, suggested you fix it FOR her. But that you 2 work together to fix it. 



> And I also agree if you aren't willing to stand by her then you aren't ready to be married. I've been married almost 20 years and we've had more than our share of adversities. Its just life.


This could be a really good growth opp for both of you. That said, it my reading between the lines is right, you are looking for an excuse, a reason, to leave. You don't need one. There is no better reason to leave than you just want to leave. Staying together for the sake of it is a recipe for a failed marriage.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> In my opinion, if you are willing to give up over such a teeny issue, you are likely not ready to be married.


im not giving up, and never said i was...as i said the seperation would be temporary...it would not be breaking up...it would just be living seperately and continue seeing each other once or twice a week...like we did before i moved in...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So let's see... You've lived with her for a year, just paying for "food and gas"? And this is "mostly her mess"? And now you're thinking about going away travelling, rather than help clean it up?

Perhaps it would be best if you left...

Keep in mind I'm just going by what you said in here... I'm sure you're a nice guy and all. But I'm looking at it from an impartial perspective based on this information. It obviously doesn't affect me one way or the other if you stay or go.

Was there ever a discussion about you contributing equally to the relationship finances? I can't really imagine having someone move in with me without at least some kind of discussion taking place. And yes, she very likely should have raised the issue long before it got out of control. But that's in the past, and neither of you has any control over that. What are you going to do about it now? That's the real question.

C


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Markie said:


> im not giving up, and never said i was...as i said the seperation would be temporary...


What do you perceive that would accomplish?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

PBear said:


> So let's see... You've lived with her for a year, just paying for "food and gas"? And this is "mostly her mess"? And now you're thinking about going away travelling, rather than help clean it up?
> 
> Perhaps it would be best if you left...


I am with PBear here. This is fishy.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Markie said:


> im not giving up, and never said i was...as i said the seperation would be temporary...it would not be breaking up...it would just be living seperately and continue seeing each other once or twice a week...like we did before i moved in...


But thats leaving no matter how much you want to sugar coat it. You are running and you know it. Its like you messed up by moving in without discussing finances and now you want a do over. Sorry but in life you rarely get do overs. They don't work.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> you are looking for an excuse, a reason, to leave. You don't need one. There is no better reason to leave than you just want to leave. Staying together for the sake of it is a recipe for a failed marriage.


please go back and read my original post.....

"i love her very much and i want to be with her and marry her there is no doubt about that,"

does that sound like i want to break up with her?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Markie said:


> please go back and read my original post.....
> 
> "i love her very much and i want to be with her and marry her there is no doubt about that,"
> 
> does that sound like i want to break up with her?


No, you just want to leave until the mess magically goes away, then come back and enjoy the fresh clean slate...

C


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Markie said:


> please go back and read my original post.....
> 
> "i love her very much and i want to be with her and marry her there is no doubt about that,"
> 
> does that sound like i want to break up with her?


As I say, I cannot imagine what you are trying to accomplish with this "break". Getting married and taking breaks are just usually mutually exclusive.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> As I say, I cannot imagine what you are trying to accomplish with this "break". Getting married and taking breaks are just usually mutually exclusive.


Yeah I can see it now. "Honey I don't like that you took a paycut, got ill, lost a job, had to care for an elderly parent, whatever....I'll just come back when it's all over". See ya. But don't worry I still love you it's just temporary...


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

PBear said:


> So let's see... You've lived with her for a year, just paying for "food and gas"? And this is "mostly her mess"?


yes...because 95% of the debt she had BEFORE i moved in....


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Markie said:


> yes...because 95% of the debt she had BEFORE i moved in....


Unfortunately, none of us are mind-readers... We can only respond to what you tell us.

I still suggest trying to work with her to come up with a solution. If that means she has to declare bankruptcy and loses the house, then the two of you get to find another place to live, which you'd presumably have to do in any case. If you can contribute enough to the finances (like a reasonable rent) to let her work out payment arrangements and keep the place, then that's even better. Whatever... Both of you can come out ahead in this.

If you want to leave to let her fix her problems, then leave. Don't plan on coming back, move on with your life. If it happens that you stumble across each other later and things work out, that's great. If I was in a serious relationship with someone and they abandoned me like that, I doubt I'd welcome them back with open arms after I resolved the problem.

If nothing else, take this as a learning experience, I guess. Learning more about your prospective partner BEFORE making a committment = good thing.

C


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Markie said:


> yes...because 95% of the debt she had BEFORE i moved in....


Are you willing to share what you hope to accomplish with the break?


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

PBear said:


> If nothing else, take this as a learning experience, I guess. Learning more about your prospective partner BEFORE making a committment = good thing.
> 
> C


yes you are right....

looking back now....some of the signs were there before i moved in or proposed....i think i just did not want to know or hear it or believe it....so some of it is my fault and stupidity....


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think you are hung up on fault. Do you place some kind of value judgment on debt? Do you feel that her situation represents some kind of character flaw? If you do, and I know for some people living within means IS a big character deal, then you might want to look at whether or not this is going to cause resentment issues for you down the pipe.

It sounds like both of you have some learning/growing to do here. She needs to get responsible, and disciplined in her money habits. The book I recommended above is very good for that. It will help with budgeting, paying down /off debt. (It does rely pretty heavily on paying with cash. I personally use software called You Need A Budget instead. Sort of like a replacement for Quicken whose budget feature sucks. I am responsible for money in our family. I have not been the best steward 

It sounds like your learning experience might be how to not avoid conflict but meet challenges head on. The I guess I did not want to know/hear/believe combined with your deciding to "solve" this problem by basically escaping it lead me to suspect you have conflict avoidance issues. I don't have any reference for dealing with conflict avoidance issues. A quick google search yielded a lot of hits... so you should be good there.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

I don't really understand why you consider a temporary seperation to be such a bad thing or a bad idea? Can you explain a bit? I feel like I need time to myself right now to think about things and the relationship in general, what is so wrong with that? I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking a serious question,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Markie said:


> I don't really understand why you consider a temporary seperation to be such a bad thing or a bad idea? Can you explain a bit? I feel like I need time to myself right now to think about things and the relationship in general, what is so wrong with that? I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking a serious question,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't know about the others, but I'm going back to the "running away from your problems, and wanting to come back when they're magically fixed"... That's not a good way to handle things, typically. If you just posted saying that you couldn't handle your fiancee's financial mis-management and you were going to leave, I doubt anyone would have argued too much. But to expect to come back when everything is wonderful again just seems wrong. Either leave or work through it with her.

What would you do if you had a work project and everything was going just hunky dory to begin with. Then halfway through the project, things start going bad. So you decide you'd like to leave the company, and come back when the project is complete so you can continue working with them. Do you think they'd be happy with this? Does it seem fair to them to bail when the going gets tough and then come back when it's good?

C


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Markie said:


> I don't really understand why you consider a temporary seperation to be such a bad thing or a bad idea? Can you explain a bit? I feel like I need time to myself right now to think about things and the relationship in general, what is so wrong with that? I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking a serious question,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that what you are doing is failing to fix the problem. All that can happen from distance is further distance. If you want time to yourself, by all means take it. But that is not a step in the direction of marriage.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

I never said I wanted to return after everything is "good", when I return everything might be the same, I just need time alone, what is wrong with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with it. But it is not conducive to forwarding a long term, committed relationship. It is more like keeping one foot out the door.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

I am not saying "I will return when all your debts are payed off" lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

You seem unwilling to say what you DO hope the time off will accomplish.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

It will hopefully let me think clearer than I can now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Markie said:


> ...
> 
> i am stressed and do not know what to do, i love her very much and i want to be with her and marry her there is no doubt about that,
> 
> ...





Markie said:


> I am not saying "I will return when all your debts are payed off" lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



From your first post... You want to leave while you let her work things out.

C


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Markie said:


> It will hopefully let me think clearer than I can now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have thoughts on what is causing you to think not clearly?

See yes I am reading between the lines here. But it is hard to imagine that THIS issue is causing such lack of clarity. This is one of the easier kinds of decisions to make in life. Buy a book on managing money, learn to manage money, acquire discipline. Done. So I can't help think that maybe you have cold feet, other issues that make you want to flee, and you are hanging your hat on the debt?

Could that be going on in your subconscious?


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

Yes there are a few other issues other than the debt, you are right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Well if you want to start a different, more comprehensive thread, go for it!


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

I just didn't want to make one big HUGE long post because I feel like nobody will take the time to read it all, or want to read it all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

You never know. There are helpful people here. But one cannot help when one does not have the info.


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## Markie (May 4, 2011)

Very true, I appreciate your input regardless
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Not sure what separating will accomplish, especially if 95% of the debt occurred before you were in the picture. Are you thinking that it'll be something like a wakeup call? If you leave, she'll find a way out, and if its alone, she might ask herself why she had to do it alone.

You said that maybe half of it is indulgences. This is the low hanging fruit she can go after first. Try to help her see that it makes no sense to live above your means. Ultimately, bankrupcy is just asking someone else to pay for your indulgences in cases like this. 

Analyze the mortgage. Does it make sense to refinance? In other words, can she get a lower interest rate, low enough to offset the fees and still save money?

Take a look at transportation. Many people trade cars way too soon. In my job, we design them to last two to three times longer than many people keep them. Even where I park to work, you're hard pressed to see anything under $50k, so my beat up pickup sure gets lonely. But it gets me there, and allows me to live debt free.

Ask yourself if your contribution is fair. If not, and you have money for travel and other indulgences, then you can fix at least this portion of the problem.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

PBear said:


> So let's see... You've lived with her for a year, just paying for "food and gas"? And this is "mostly her mess"? And now you're thinking about going away travelling, rather than help clean it up?
> 
> Perhaps it would be best if you left...
> 
> ...


Well finally a response I agree with. It seems obvious she isnt real good with finances or she should have raised a flag about the situation long ago. Really I think she should have told you her income couldnt cover all the bills and you need to contribute to paying them or you need to leave and she could get a roommate to help with the mortgage. 

It seems to me she needs to address how much in debt she is in and that would give a course of action to take. She could get some debt counselling and try to get her debtors to lower intrest rates, she could look into bankruptcy. 

I guess for you the good news is it isnt your debt but it does seem the free lunch is comming to an end.


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