# You and me Baby ain't nothing but mammals



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Monogamy may sound sweet, but why it evolved isn't

Of note, they indicate that the study isn't applicable to humans because neither research group constitutes humans as monogamous.

Enh ... the romance thing is still nice. While it lasts


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree.
Interesting results for the research.

I have stated several times here that historically, marriage had very little to do with romance and more to do with survival of the tribe , preserving customs and passing on wealth.

Many have disagreed with me , no problem .lol.
But the notion of romance before, during and after monogamous marriage is only a recent " addendum " to the monogamous marriage construct.

TEDx â€” The surprising history of monogamy: Kyle Harper

It is , and has always been about basic_ human _survival.

[ Even the monkeys know that!]


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Interesting, Deejo. I wonder what the explanation is for couples staying together (monogamously) once the off-spring have flown the nest? Habit?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I think if I read it right, one study claimed monogamy was used to guard the female and the other study concluded that monogamy was used to guard the young.

So I guess maybe those primates that remain monogamous after young ones have left the nest may belong to the first group?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Cosmos said:


> Interesting, Deejo. I wonder what the explanation is for couples staying together (monogamously) once the off-spring have flown the nest? Habit?


From a human standpoint the collective benefits of pairing up are substantial ... and again none of them having much to do with romance. 

Substantially, I would presume simple companionship and economic welfare.

I'm a big believer most people want to avoid pain. If the pain or respectively, pleasure, of remaining with your partner is less than the perceived pain of abandoning the relationship and forging out on one's own ... they will stay. Just that easy. If they love and respect one another, all the better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

...

So lets do it like they do on the discovery channel!

You and me now! *dances*
Getting horny now! Heh


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

In my opinion, monogamy for humans has a lot to do with romance. Once the flame fades, they tend to look for someone outside the marriage. In the same time keeping the official partner for comfort, stability, the notion of "family, etc. That is not monogamy anymore.
And unfortunately, every marriage reaches there, at a certain point... My godparents have been married for 25 years. Then, bam! he has an affair, divorces and marries the mistress...
Hard for me to think of it. That's why it's so important to keep the flame burning as long as possible.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> In my opinion, monogamy for humans has a lot to do with romance. Once the flame fades, they tend to look for someone outside the marriage. In the same time keeping the official partner for comfort, stability, the notion of "family, etc. That is not monogamy anymore.
> And unfortunately, every marriage reaches there, at a certain point... My godparents have been married for 25 years. Then, bam! he has an affair, divorces and marries the mistress...
> Hard for me to think of it. That's why it's so important to keep the flame burning as long as possible.


Are you saying then that monogamy is not natural for humans, that's why it's important to keep the flames burning?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It seems like it comes naturally for many people and then others struggle with it.Is it because monogamy is learned and not really 'natural' or is it like other things natural where some can and some can't?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I think it speaks more to the nature of the individual than it does the nature of mankind.

Remaining pair bonded to one person doesn't equate to happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction, honor, duty or moral sensibility.

I know lots of couples that remain paired and seemingly monogamous for all the wrong reasons.

Monogamy and marriage are constructs. Overwhelmingly good constructs for the function of child rearing and maintaining a sense of stability, security and purpose for those involved.

The model does need some tweaking however.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I know lots of couples that remain paired and seemingly monogamous for all the wrong reasons.
> 
> Monogamy and marriage are constructs.* Overwhelmingly good constructs for the function of child rearing and maintaining a sense of stability, security and purpose for those involved.*
> 
> The model does need some tweaking however.


Which brings a question to my mind.
Modern commentators say that,
" staying married for the kids" is wrong.

Given that marriage is an _" overwhelmingly good construct for the function of child rearing and maintaining a sense of stability, security and purpose for those involved ,"_ is staying in the marriage for the kids always a bad idea?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Caribbean Man said:


> Which brings a question to my mind.
> Modern commentators say that,
> " staying married for the kids" is wrong.
> 
> Given that marriage is an _" overwhelmingly good construct for the function of child rearing and maintaining a sense of stability, security and purpose for those involved ,"_ is staying in the marriage for the kids always a bad idea?


Kind of goes back to the pleasure/pain principle in my opinion.

To me there is a world of difference between an unsatisfying marriage and a bad marriage that can directly impact your health or well-being.

I know plenty of people that stay in bad marriages. I also know plenty of people that end unsatisfying marriages. I don't judge either choice. I don't feel either is more or less valid than the other. I left an unsatisfying marriage that was rapidly transitioning into a bad marriage. 

I don't believe humans are biologically wired as monogamous, but I do believe that we can, and let's face it, do make that choice every day as we pair up and marry off, believing that the union is forever. On average, 'forever' for first marriages lasts about 8 years. Whereas, the longer one stays married, statistically, the odds of divorce go down.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Kind of goes back to the pleasure/pain principle in my opinion.
> 
> To me there is a world of difference between an unsatisfying marriage and a bad marriage that can directly impact your health or psychological well-being.
> 
> .


:iagree:
Just needed to fix that ^^^ for you! [ lol!]


But seriously speaking, I don't think human beings are wired for anything except to live and reproduce and eventually, die.
Everything else are just functions of our existence and higher state of consciousness.


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

I think we've all touched a little on it, but I feel monogamy truly is a case of nature vs. nurture. It is a learned trait, and probably one learned from a young age.

But with all this said, does this mean that cheaters are actually doing what we're hard-wired to do - find mates and reproduce?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What we are 'biologically' wired to do is a slippery slope around here.
My fundamental position is that we are hard-wired to have sex and reproduce. We firewall that instinctual compulsion with cultural mores, moral obligation, societal tolerance as well as ego, and self actualization.

Romance, love, intimacy, compassion and commitment are all part of that brain-sex-stew.

Sometimes the checks and balances that we operate under are overridden. In some folks, they are overridden quite easily.

I believe most folks have the capacity to live monogamously under the right circumstances.

I also believe that most folks have the capacity to commit infidelity under all the wrong circumstances.

I don't make any judgement about whether someone is a good person or a bad person based upon infidelity. 

Now for someone that habitually uses deception, lies and manipulation to serially cheat? That's a different story.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

My maternal grandmother had 13 children.
11 boys and two girls, one being my Mom.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

LoveAtDaisys said:


> I think we've all touched a little on it, but I feel monogamy truly is a case of nature vs. nurture. It is a learned trait, and probably one learned from a young age.
> 
> *But with all this said, does this mean that cheaters are actually doing what we're hard-wired to do - find mates and reproduce?*


Yes.
But I suspect so too, thieves , rapist and murders.
Doing the right thing in any given circumstance is always hard, and takes some effort.
Maybe that's why our prisons are overflowing!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sweat baby sweat...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Song gets stuck in your head doesn't it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yup lol

Sweat baby sweat... baby, sex is a texas drought... you do the kinda things that only prince would sing about... so put your hands, down my pants...



lol


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

coffee4me said:


> After raising that many children, couples are probably too tired to go find a new mate. Must feel like surviving a war together.


Not true - 13 in my family. When my mother died my father remarried and cheated on his new wife!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I think the evidence is staggeringly overwhelming.

The species **** Sapiens is NOT monogamous _via it's intrinsic nature_.

Neither sex of the species can claim they are more monogamous than the other.

I'm not saying that we should give up on it. I just think we need to find ways of being better better at it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Promoting a highly sexual and highly monogamous sexual lifestyle is the reason I began my blog.

I think we (as a society) are on the cusp of figuring it out. I think infidelity (by both genders) was rug swept by society for a long time. Then women entered the work place. Now women could afford more divorces. Suddenly behaviors are not rug swept any more. But infidelity didn't stop and divorce kept rising.

Now that this shift has occured...we can look at it...as a society. This is why John Gottman started looking at it...to figure out how to nail down what makes marriage last/how to avoid divorce.

Obviously being faithful is going to be part of avoiding divorce.

Why are people unfaithful?

Now there is a whole lot of info about that, too. We can educate ourselves on this now, where before we couldn't (being that it was rug swept, it was not studied).

We are becoming more aware, and slowly, hopefully, more of us will figure out how to avoid divorce, stay in love, stay sexual, and be TRULY monogamous.

It is a lifestyle choice to be monogamous.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> Promoting a highly sexual and highly monogamous sexual lifestyle is the reason I began my blog.
> 
> I think we (as a society) are on the cusp of figuring it out. I think infidelity (by both genders) was rug swept by society for a long time. Then women entered the work place. Now women could afford more divorces. Suddenly behaviors are not rug swept any more. But infidelity didn't stop and divorce kept rising.
> 
> ...


Sexy ...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> We are becoming more aware, and slowly, hopefully, more of us will figure out how to avoid divorce, stay in love, stay sexual, and be TRULY monogamous.
> 
> *It is a lifestyle choice to be monogamous.*


That's why it's important to find the right partner before you commit.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I don't make any judgement about whether someone is a good person or a bad person based upon infidelity.
> 
> Now for someone that habitually uses deception, lies and manipulation to serially cheat? That's a different story.


Choosing to be or not to be monogamous (or any shade of grey therein) outside of religious tenets isn't really a moral issue, though people quickly make it one. What a couple decides is best for them, ultimately - is up to them. 

Dan Savage points this out in his sex columns - its not the non-monogamy that makes someone as he labels them a "CPOS" (cheating piece of ****) it's ultimately the lying, 
the trust-breaking, the gaslighting, the mind-phucking that surrounding cheating. Particularly if you knew you weren't the monogamous kind but presented yourself as such to convince a partner to invest in a relationship with you. 

(Which is kind of the other side of the "bait and switch" phenomenon where instead of going from hot to vanilla, you present yourself as monogamous and vanilla, but really, at your core you are a hardcore swinger fanatic.)


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