# Follow up to "Wife still in love with ex boyfriend"



## skyhawk (Jan 6, 2014)

*.*

.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm glad that you have come back and are sharing how things are going. Many people never do this. 

A lot of people are able to recover their marriages after infidelity and to even go on to have better marriages than before. 

Good for you, your wife and your family.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Skyhawk, 

I am glad you're happy. I wish you and your W a long life together. I'm even happier your children are relieved of their anxiety and able to flourish once again, free of this episode. I would have never been able to handle the situation the way you did. I'm not one that was brought up emotionally needy, as to consider second place as winning too.


----------



## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_ Excellent news. Glad your happy.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Skyhawk:

sorry, nope, not a chance.

My view will disappoint you. since I couldn't recall your story exactly i just now gave it a quick back check. I remember this story. For me there is no good news at all here, because your wife displays all sorts of signs of (very extreme, unusual) narcicism. this means that when she is around you she cannot fail to make you a victim of her constant manipulation anymore than a fish can avoid water. I wish you no ill but to me 6 months of apparent peace with someone like her is nothing more than an intermission preceding her next set of vile acts. A person like this is not capable of love, only capable of mimicing it in some ways. 

If you are sincerely describing your wife accurately in your stories, then she is about as religious as Joseph Stalin, in reality. she has demonstrated that. Keep your wits about you and get yourself the hell away from her. I truly feel sorry for you and your children.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Wow. I remember you. Okay im gonna ask. Yours is one of the most disturbing threads for me for some reason. Not gonna get on you about it. Its the past.

What happened on the tryst night? I was trying to figure out what , "everything else" meant.

Note: heavy petting and oral sex but no PIV on two nights is sufficiently descriptive. NOT looking for a lay by play.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Skyhawk:
> 
> sorry, nope, not a chance.
> 
> ...


Well, THAT is certainly supportive.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Skyhawk:

Good to hear from you! I am glad that everything is going well. I thought that it might since yours was a seriously atypical situation.

I don't think it is uncommon for anyone to wonder what might have happened if we'd taken a different turn in our lives. TAM is filled with stories about husbands and wives who have taken up with old flames because they felt that they'd missed a chance to be "really happy".

In your case your wife came to you and told you ahead of time what she wanted to do. To me that meant that she in fact held you at least in high respect if not total love.

You let her go. To her that probably meant more than we can imagine. I would have a hard time doing that in your shoes. But your actions, and I stress that, YOUR ACTIONS made it possible for her to face reality and come back to you.

Had she gone in the face of your strong objections, she might not have been willing to come back to your anger. But you did the right thing. I'm very happy for you!


----------



## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

skyhawk said:


> it may help someone to be a little slower on the trigger and consider other possibilities.


True enough.

I suspect that you got a roasting on your previous thread because the idea of letting your wife try out her boyfriend to see if he's a better prospect & hoping that she will come back is unacceptable to many guys (Or girls if the roles were reversed). The fact that they actually ended up in bed adds to the cringe factor ten fold. I for one don't agree with what you've done & would not call your situation a victory. No two ways about it, she basically stepped out on you with your reluctant blessing. 

But I realize everyone sees things differently & wish you luck. I hope you don't have cause to come back here in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

You didn't win anything. You let another man and your wife cuckold you.. She got her rocks off and came back with a big dramatic act getting everyone to believe how remorseful she is.
She didn't lose anything. She got to bang her old lover and do all the naughty things with him she most likely kept from you, she got to keep her family and fake illusion of a home, and you get the scraps from her table. 

Disgusting. I just wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm not sure if this is a win or lose.

Im not wired to think like you, but I can understand your logic. Not my logic..but it is yours.

I think it would be a win if she let you do the same. Take off for a weekend to bang an ex to see if you missed out at life.

Otherwise it's a double standard and your just a convenience to come back to.

One part of your previous thread struck a chord..."how your wife wanted to drop her religious beliefs for a weekend so she could go see the other man.

You see...that's the hampster wheel in her head, spinning away coming up with a logical way to ease her guilt and get what she wanted. For someone so religious, she should know that religion isn't there only when it's convenient.

So....is this a big act she's giving you? Or is it legit? Time will tell. Come back in 6 more months and let us know. Maybe you'll prove us all wrong.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

One thing I also noticed in your previous thread was its all about her. And this thread started out exactly the same. She's happy! Her happiness is rubbing off. She's acting awesome!


So........how are you feeling? When are you going to face your own trauma? You've been through denial and depression. When's that anger your going to eventually experience root itself to your soul and expose its ugly head?

My bets? In about 12 more months it will seed itself when things start to go back to "normal and routine". sex will diminish. And you'll start to re-associate those feelings with your trauma.

Then it will sprout and grow its ugly weeds. Festering. Like a radioactive pus. Until your wife barks at you for not cutting the lawn. Then you'll blow up, as your feelings youve been suppressing finally go nuclear.

Don't forget yourself in all this, bud.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Out of curiosity I went and read the back posts.

Almost every single poster tried to point out the mistakes you were making and you ignored all the good advice because your thinking was, and still is, very clouded. Things got so heated among the well meaning posters, their frustration was so strong with your distorted way of thinking, that the thread was closed by a moderator.

Now here you are a mere 6 months after your wife did unspeakable things to you, and you're proclaiming how great she is and how wonderful your life is.

You sir, are in for a big surprise.

It's called "reality".

This post sums it up rather well.



LostViking said:


> You didn't win anything. You let another man and your wife cuckold you.. She got her rocks off and came back with a big dramatic act getting everyone to believe how remorseful she is.
> She didn't lose anything. She got to bang her old lover and do all the naughty things with him she most likely kept from you, she got to keep her family and fake illusion of a home, and you get the scraps from her table.
> 
> Disgusting. I just wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back.


Disgusting is right. It's so bad I find myself wondering if it's even real. How can a person allow themselves to be treated this way?


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

lenzi said:


> Disgusting is right. It's so bad I find myself wondering if it's even real. How can a person allow themselves to be treated this way?


I can understand it....

How many movies and books do you see/read where the guy needs to be a martyr to win back the girl...where she has a eureka moment and comes running back?

Hundreds and hundreds. This is how men are conditioned to act nowadays. Sacrifice everything and you'll be the winner.

How many threads on here turn out that way?

One. Maybe....


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Many argue 'revenge' affairs are never helpful. I think this case may be the exception. She needs some sort of consequence, or she'll do it again. Knowing that you get your turn with some 22 y/o hottie each time she does might slow her down.


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks for the update Skyhawk.

These are all good signs!

It would seem she needed to get it out of her system.

I think some people have an extra wire in their emotions, sort of a feedback loop.

If they break up during the fantasy stage, they just cannot move on from it. People are wired differently, but she crossed a boundary that damaged her.

Sometimes there are unseen landmines on the other side of those boundaries. 

Occasionally we get people on here who are considering swinging or a threesome, you never know what crossing that boundary will do to you or your partner until you are on the other side.

I am sure she was quite conflicted at the time.

I hope she can heal from the damage she did to herself and you can find healing as well. It was a horrible situation to be in.

You deserve some good years now!

Keep us posted.

I really wish you well.

Take care!


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LostViking said:


> You didn't win anything. You let another man and your wife cuckold you.. She got her rocks off and came back with a big dramatic act getting everyone to believe how remorseful she is.
> She didn't lose anything. She got to bang her old lover and do all the naughty things with him she most likely kept from you, she got to keep her family and fake illusion of a home, and you get the scraps from her table.
> 
> Disgusting. I just wasted an hour of my life I'll never get back.


yes. unfortunately he came back to tell us that we were wrong and he is happy being plan b.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

barbados said:


> yes. unfortunately he came back to tell us that we were wrong and he is happy being plan b.


Really, I don't think he was plan B. It doesn't sound like the OM wanted to dump her, he would have taken her.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

skyhawk said:


> My wife came back from her tryst


Wow, just wow!

You now have to live the rest of your life knowing that you permitted your wife to have sex with another man and you're happy about it.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You know they say that "it takes all sorts" and "vive la difference" and "different strokes...", but I must be from another planet.

You allowed your wife to "scratch her itch" by paying for her to travel to a [email protected] ex-boyfriend ("the love of her life") to sleep with him and then comforting her guilt when she came back and now that her itch is scratched (for the time being) you come here to tell us that "I told you so ... that it would be OK".

Are you for real ? God damn modern medication, but whatever they have you on has numbed you down to your [email protected]!

Grow a pair and rejoin the human race soon for your own good!


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

alphaomega said:


> I can understand it....
> 
> How many movies and books do you see/read where the guy needs to be a martyr to win back the girl...where she has a eureka moment and comes running back?
> 
> ...


Life is not a movie. Hollywood rules don't apply in real life.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Out of curiosity I went and read the back posts.
> 
> Almost every single poster tried to point out the mistakes you were making and you ignored all the good advice because your thinking was, and still is, very clouded. Things got so heated among the well meaning posters, their frustration was so strong with your distorted way of thinking, that the thread was closed by a moderator.
> 
> ...


Interesting. "Unspeakable things" eh?

What you are saying is "pay no attention to the facts on the ground, we KNOW what is going to happen!"

It is amazing that this simple psychological result that so many here are so proud of is absolutely unknown to psychologists.

By the way I was not alone in defending Skyhawk. And the mods closed the thread because the mob busy attacking Skyhawk were violating the rules of TAM. In other words, THEY were wrong to deal with someone who came here for support in the way that they did. There was absolutely no need to denigrate him the way he was denigrated, just as there is no need to do it now.

Why not simply write down what happened to yet another case where the husband knew the wife better than the TAM folks did, and learn from it?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> You know they say that "it takes all sorts" and "vive la difference" and "different strokes...", but I must be from another planet.
> 
> You allowed your wife to "scratch her itch" by paying for her to travel to a [email protected] ex-boyfriend ("the love of her life") to sleep with him and then comforting her guilt when she came back and now that her itch is scratched (for the time being) you come here to tell us that "I told you so ... that it would be OK".
> 
> ...


I would note that Skyhawk is not alone in this. Others posting on TAM have done (and are doing) the same thing.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

One more thing. If you have to keep your spouse chained up when they are in the throes of a crisis, you don't have a marriage, you have a disaster waiting to happen.

Sometimes, if you loosen the bonds a bit, the crisis goes away and a happy marriage results.

For some strange reason (that's called sarcasm) Skyhawk is happier with a wife who is no longer wondering about "what if" and who now knows that she was graced with a gift from someone who loved her enough to let her go if that is what it took to make her happy.


----------



## bigbearsfan (Feb 11, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> One more thing. If you have to keep your spouse chained up when they are in the throes of a crisis, you don't have a marriage, you have a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> Sometimes, if you loosen the bonds a bit, the crisis goes away and a happy marriage results.
> 
> For some strange reason (that's called sarcasm) Skyhawk is happier with a wife who is no longer wondering about "what if" and who now knows that she was graced with a gift from someone who loved her enough to let her go if that is what it took to make her happy.


Well if you and Skyhawk are happy that he is ok with another man has been inside his wife, more power to boys.
But some of us men prefer not to share our steak with others.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> What you are saying is "pay no attention to the facts on the ground, we KNOW what is going to happen!"


Rather, we know what already happened just a short 6 moths ago, and it's not good. In fact, it's very BAD.



sidney2718 said:


> I would note that Skyhawk is not alone in this. Others posting on TAM have done (and are doing) the same thing.


Some situations have a better chance of success than others.

Most of the time though, it's just not going to work. Regardless of how many others are going through the same thing. 



sidney2718 said:


> It is amazing that this simple psychological result that so many here are so proud of is absolutely unknown to psychologists.


What the heck are you talking about?



sidney2718 said:


> By the way I was not alone in defending Skyhawk.


So what? You're always going to find opposing sides to any conflict. There are some who still argue that the earth is flat.



sidney2718 said:


> And the mods closed the thread because the mob busy attacking Skyhawk were violating the rules of TAM. In other words, THEY were wrong to deal with someone who came here for support in the way that they did.


Possibly true, probably true. But that doesn't change his situation at all.



sidney2718 said:


> There was absolutely no need to denigrate him the way he was denigrated, just as there is no need to do it now.


That's true. 



sidney2718 said:


> Why not simply write down what happened to yet another case where the husband knew the wife better than the TAM folks did, and learn from it?


He certainly knows her better than we do, but he doesn't know her well enough. From what he describes of her, I don't want to know any more about her than I already do.


----------



## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm happy that things seem to be working out for you. 

I remember your thread and honestly thought you were a little crazy for letting her do it. Personally. Nobody fishes in my wife's pond but me. Period. She had a short affair with your knowledge. I understand you find what you felt you had to do at the time. And it looks as though you got lucky and it worked out. But I would sugest that you have a serious conversation with her that at no time in the future will you ever put up with this sort of thing again. 

That said. There are a ton of stories on here with spouses dealing with infidelity that are working it out. And when they finally get past it we high five and congratulate them for the work they put in to save their marriage. I don't see why we can't all do that here. Yes he did know about the infidelity before and while it was happening. But he also put in the hard work to help bring the marriage back to the healthy place it is today. Give the guy a break. 

Good luck my friend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So are we suggesting that the next time she has another itch to scratch that he let her go and do it to get it out of her system ? Yes of course he knows his wife better than TAM. That is not the question. The question is what he is willing to accept in his "marriage" and as I said before, different strokes for different folks.

She went off with this guy shortly before she married Skyhawk. Then regretted that her first time wasn't with POSOM. That would have been a death blow to me. Still, a whole marriage and kids later, she is still pining for him. That would be death blow number 2. Then she goes off to bed him to see what it would have been like (paid for by OP). Death blow no 3. Then she comes back and tells OP what happened and says, meh, not that good actually. Death blow no 4.

So really a question of how many of these OP is willing to put up with. He actually thinks he succeeded at something here. Of course, WW loves him. Who else would afford her this freedom and tolerance.

Sure we can applaud him for "winning her back" - not me, though. This is not healthy and I cannot bring myself to say it is. This is not like other BS's here working through R where they have made a conscious decision to work through a very tortuous process but do not accept that what their WW did was what needed to happen.

Totally disagree with this line of thinking. Skyhawk, I wish you well and hope that this is the end of this and that you do not have nightmares about what has been happening since the start of your marriage, what just happened and what could very easily happen again.

But just try and picture a different scenario where you married a woman who only wanted to be with you, loved you and was in love with you (not as a result of trying out other men during your marriage but genuinely found you and only you attractive). How does this image compare with what you now have ? Idealistic ? Maybe ? Hence, what I am willing to concede is that it takes all types to make up this world.

I genuinely hope that this is really out of your wife's system now and more importantly, that she sees you as a super attractive husband that she would fight tooth and nail to keep and truly regrets what she did to you.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> I'm happy that things seem to be working out for you.
> 
> I remember your thread and honestly thought you were a little crazy for letting her do it. Personally. Nobody fishes in my wife's pond but me. Period. She had a short affair with your knowledge. I understand you find what you felt you had to do at the time. And it looks as though you got lucky and it worked out. But I would sugest that you have a serious conversation with her that at no time in the future will you ever put up with this sort of thing again.
> 
> ...


Healthy place ? Really ?


----------



## Baablacksheep (Aug 29, 2013)

Well if my wife had treated me the way the OP's did, I MIGHT have taken her back. But being OK with it ? No way !! The only thing I can think of for having the attitude he has is that he's afraid. I guess he full well know she might never come back not ? So if he would have took a stand against it, would that have changed the outcome ? Just random thoughts running through my head...... 
If they would have parted really angry she might have decided to stick it out with OM a little longer. Maybe his niceness did help win her back ? I guess I'm a little too proud or something, to tell my wife," honey go try him. I'll be here waiting if it don't work. "
How will reconciliation work when she hasn't gotten much of a consequence ? [or seems like it] Does the fact she has the freedom to try another man say anything about the balance of power in the marriage ? Like I said, just random thoughts....


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Baablacksheep said:


> Well if my wife had treated me the way the OP's did, I MIGHT have taken her back. But being OK with it ? No way !! The only thing I can think of for having the attitude he has is that he's afraid. I guess he full well know she might never come back not ? So if he would have took a stand against it, would that have changed the outcome ? Just random thoughts running through my head......
> If they would have parted really angry she might have decided to stick it out with OM a little longer. Maybe his niceness did help win her back ? I guess I'm a little too proud or something, to tell my wife," honey go try him. I'll be here waiting if it don't work. "
> How will reconciliation work when she hasn't gotten much of a consequence ? [or seems like it] Does the fact she has the freedom to try another man say anything about the balance of power in the marriage ? Like I said, just random thoughts....


It was never a question of "trying another man". The OM was a special case. She likely was never going to get over him all by herself.

What Skyhawk did was give her a chance to get over it. And it worked.

Look at it this way. If Skyhawk had managed to keep her from going to see the OM, he'd have spent the rest of his marriage with an upset wife and, in my opinion, a ruined marriage.

She might have gone anyway over his objections. In that case no matter what the outcome, he'd have had a ruined marriage.

Instead he took a chance. If she and the OM hit it off, then the marriage was gone. But his wife decided freely of her own will that the dream of the OM was only a dream and had no future reality to it. Skyhawk won.

The "advice" offered by many folks here was to divorce. That would not have saved the marriage. Skyhawk wanted it saved if possible. In my opinion with divorce as the main option, Skyhawk took the only option with a chance of preserving the marriage.

As for consequences, what is the need of them in THIS case. Read what Skyhawk wrote. His wife knows that she's very lucky and is married to a special man. She was given the chance to check on her dream of a lifetime. Who else would have done that for her? It was a chance based on years of devoted marriage to a person who understood her rather well.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I have nothing against skyhawk but his wife is not a good person. Only a person with ZERO empathy would put a husband and family through what she did. There is something very wrong with her. Can't be happy for anyone married to such a person. She is the kind if person that can convince herself she's deserves anything her mind can conjure up, regardless of the price others may have to pay. Rules are meant for others, not her. 
If the OP has life insurance,if I were him I would cancel it ASAP.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Just a little note.

"They did everything else but sex."

I asked for a definition. He did not reply as to what exactly happened. Note I was just looking for a short list of what that meant. He chose not to reply.

So be it.

Btw who are the other " scratch the itch" posters?


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Getting pumped and dumped by someone who she fantasized her entire life about must have been absolutely devastating. Good thing she had her "Plan B" locked down and emasculated. 

Diagnosis: Terminal oneitis and self-respect deficiency.
Prognosis: Hopeless, move on to someone who can be saved.

I can't even feel sorry this one.


----------



## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> The "advice" offered by many folks here was to divorce. That would not have saved the marriage. Skyhawk wanted it saved if possible. In my opinion with divorce as the main option, Skyhawk took the only option with a chance of preserving the marriage.


Yes, you also spent weeks and weeks berating other posters for their "advice" in the SteveK thread. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. Sometimes it isn't right to keep a marriage at all costs when it's held together with this level of disfunction.

A healthy relationship requires mutual love and respect: That's been absent for 20+ years here. In my next points I'm going to use the word "adult", not as a comment on the level of maturity of the OP, but because the points are not gender specific in anyway.


A healthy adult would have ended marriage when they found there spouse crying over the fact they wished they were with someone else on their honeymoon. But that requires strength of character
A healthy adult would have terminated their relationship with immediate effect (or at least attempted to) when they hear their spouse cry out someone else's name when they orgasm. We give our emotional well-being into the care of our spouse in a relationship. His wife could not even bother to disguise the fact she was fantasising about her OM - a complete lack of respect on her part. And his.
A healthy adult does not encourage their spouse to go to OM/OW
A healthy adult wouldn't think the OM/OW was noble
A healthy adult would not believe that after all this time their spouse 'ended up in bed' with the object of their fantasy and didn't have intercourse. Sure. It's pure self-deception.



> As for consequences, what is the need of them in THIS case. Read what Skyhawk wrote. His wife knows that she's very lucky and is married to a special man. She was given the chance to check on her dream of a lifetime. Who else would have done that for her? It was a chance based on years of devoted marriage to a person who understood her rather well.


The only 'consequence' he should be that he focus on is why he allowed himself to stay in this awful marriage for 20+ years in the first place. We're capable of amazing levels of rationalisation and self-deception. At some point that has to end for the sake of the whole family.



skyhawk said:


> Eldest son came in the other day and said. "Mum I reel really loved for the first time and it's making me a better person at school too, thank you"


What this means is that his wife was emotionally lacking toward her children every second of their lives until she had her 'tryst'. The question Skyhawk should asking is why he and his wife failed to love their children the way they deserve, for all but the last seven months of their lives. 

And I dread to think what he'll say to his elder son if Skyhawk is ever asked "Mum is really happy now. What happened to make it so and what can I learn about healthy marriages from you..."

The OP considers this situation a "win", but what has he won?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> Yes, you also spent weeks and weeks berating other posters for their "advice" in the SteveK thread. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. Sometimes it isn't right to keep a marriage at all costs when it's held together with this level of disfunction.


Sorry. I wasn't wrong. According to the forum rules we are here to help new posters attain their goals. At the start I too was in favor of SteveK's getting a divorce. He did many posts trying to convince us all that he did not want a divorce. He wanted to save his marriage.

Most folks told him that it was not possible. I and several others told him that it would be difficult but that we'd try to help.

And that's what we did. It was difficult. And in my opinion right now the attempt has basically failed. And I've told him this.

I do agree that a marriage beset by disfunction is hard to save. But I'd not agree that it is wrong to try to save it. Many, but not all marriages are worth the attempt IF the BS wants to make the attempt.

We can disagree about the amount of dysfunction in Skyhawk's marriage. He and his wife don't seem to feel it, but perhaps they will in the future.

We can also disagree about SteveK. That one is certainly a strange case.


----------



## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> Sorry. I wasn't wrong. According to the forum rules we are here to help new posters attain their goals. At the start I too was in favor of SteveK's getting a divorce. He did many posts trying to convince us all that he did not want a divorce. He wanted to save his marriage.


SteveK's marriage is already dead. There's nothing anyone can do to save it. I hope he accepts that before he has a breakdown. And sorry, you are wrong, there's no such forum rule. This would be the closest:

*8. Be supportive of others and their desire to have happier, healthier relationships.*

Healthy relationships don't involve standing idle whilst you spouse flies off to fvck her boyfriend. Which is why this marriage is also dead.



> We can disagree about the amount of dysfunction in Skyhawk's marriage. He and his wife don't seem to feel it, but perhaps they will in the future.


Skylark and his WW have no idea what a healthy relationship or marriage is, as I outlined in point form in my previous post. They can still learn to have a healthy relationship but they both need professional help to get there. Pretending that Skylark's situation is a "win", doesn't help them or their kids.



> We can also disagree about SteveK. That one is certainly a strange case.


Actually, that's one thing we do agree on


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

skyhawk said:


> I know it's only 7 months, but I'm calling it a win as the last 6 months have been exceptionally happy. There seem to be so few good news relationship stories here that it is worth sharing the wins, even if it took an unconventional path to get there.


 Being a cuckold is not a win. Reading all your posts, it was always about what your wife wanted, and if she wanted you to be a cuckold, so be it. Now that your wife knows that you will accept being treated this way, the next time that another man gets her interest, she will know that she will be able to get away with cheating on you again. She knows that after she cheats, all she needs to do is be nice, say that she is sorry, and act like a wife is suppose to have been acting all along. 

She cheated on you when she was engaged to you, and cheated on you 7 months ago. She will probably not cheat on you again right away, but she will cheat again. Just give it time. Affair sex is addictive and hard to resist, especially when there is no down side.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> "They did everything else but sex."
> 
> I asked for a definition. He did not reply as to what exactly happened.


 Actual the correct quote is "they did everything except have intercourse, while we had only kissed" refers to her cheating on him while they were engaged and supposedly saving themselves for marriage; yes she was stopping the OP that she was engaged to marry at a kiss while letting the OM pretty much have his way with her. Even if you believe that they did not have intercourse back then (I find this hard to believe), that is still one of the most horrible betrayals I have ever heard of.

This last go around at cheating 7 months ago, they did have intercourse as the OP stated "they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing,"


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Fellow posters,

Most of you are damaged goods in the relations department.

It shows on TAM, in the rigid way of dealing with situations.

This was not a standard situation, and there is more to people than black and white reasoning. You are wrong here.

TAM is a sub-section of reality, with its own characteristics.

In real life, relations have more subtle and more diverse dimensions. Yes, you can hammer them down to the essentials YOU see as elementary. 

But that is not reality, it is your narrow vision, how understandable though it may be from your own situation.

If you have to enforce a woman to be with you, she is not yours.

If she chooses to be with you voluntarily, she is.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Fellow posters,
> 
> Most of you are damaged goods in the relations department.
> 
> ...


I liked this post primarily because there is a persistent mindset within TAM that has a persistent group think mentality. While I personally would not have done it this way and would have probably ended up divorced instead, his approach did ultimately get him the girl. It's hard to play a game when the rules are irrational. Besides, we have a continuum of views on R. No doubt there are a number of respected posters who choose R that are second guessed by others who could never R or only under very specific and difficult circumstances. Others are more open to R in general. 

The good news/bad news is the same outcome IMHO. He achieved his objectives - which has ultimately made him happy. However, the bad news may be that he won her back. Maybe that wasn't the best outcome for him in the end. The bottom line is we'll never know. While I don't think another man will come in to sweep her off her feet like many think because this appears to be a case where the OP's W had a special bond with the BF prior to marriage to the OP, it still presents a number of other problems for the OP pertaining to what type of person she is. She may never cheat again, but that doesn't mean that she's going to be a great wife. She's clearly determined in getting what she wants. It can be a great trait to have or a personality defect. It depends on the boundaries in place and whether she develops a healthy value system that is compatible with marriage.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

See_Listen_Love said:


> If you have to enforce a woman to be with you, she is not yours.
> 
> If she chooses to be with you voluntarily, she is.


Right, but only to the point of whether she decides to voluntarily stay or voluntarily go into the arms of another man she is infatuated with. Once she decides to go, she is deciding to break our relationship off.

My wife can walk out the door any time she wants to. But if she chooses to be with another man then she has chosen not to be with me. What is so wrong with SkyHawk's whole mindset imho is that he let her choose another man for a while, and then he took her back when she didn't find something better than she already has.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

If you came in second place, you lost. 

Skyhawk has been in second place so long he's comfortable with it. 

That's him. Most need to be in first place with their spouses.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Here is his OP from the first thread, for those who dont want to search:

*" My wife is a very religious lady and always has been.
We have been together for 24 years now, during that time there have been occasions where She has had crushes on other guys, as happens to any normal woman.
While we were engaged her family convinced her to see the world, during that trip she met another guy and he became a boyfriend with whom she became very intimate (leaving her wracked with guilt), she never told me, but had a struggle deciding if she would marry him instead of me.
When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.
Eventually we settled into a routine, but sometimes when she had a good orgasm she would cry out his name, then of course be embarrassed and try to deny it. Sex became almost non-existent for many years, eventually she admitted the affair to me, but never furnished the whole story because she just wanted to forget it and move on.
I told her she should go and be with him, but he had moved on with his life, married with kids, like us. Through the years there was every kind of counseling, both religious and general but nothing really helped.
Now all these years later she is finally ready to entertain the possibility of facing up to things, I have told her I want her to go have sex with him and sort out how she feels (he is now single). She is considering it but is scared that it “might not change anything”
If there is anyone who has a situation where going back to have sex with the ex has helped the relationship can you please share, need some evidence for her. For me, I just don’t want to live a lie anymore, I don't mind her having him on the side, but be honest about it.
Would really like to hear from anyone with a similar experience, especially if you've actually done this. Not interested in moralizing opinions from those who have never experienced anything like this."
*
I threw up in my mouth a little. I cannot fathom allowing yourself to be second place for all these years.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I liked this post primarily because there is a persistent mindset within TAM that has a persistent group think mentality. While I personally would not have done it this way and would have probably ended up divorced instead, *his approach did ultimately get him the girl.* It's hard to play a game when the rules are irrational. Besides, we have a continuum of views on R. No doubt there are a number of respected posters who choose R that are second guessed by others who could never R or only under very specific and difficult circumstances. Others are more open to R in general.
> 
> The good news/bad news is the same outcome IMHO. He achieved his objectives - which has ultimately made him happy. However, the bad news may be that he won her back. Maybe that wasn't the best outcome for him in the end. The bottom line is we'll never know. While I don't think another man will come in to sweep her off her feet like many think because this appears to be a case where the OP's W had a special bond with the BF prior to marriage to the OP, it still presents a number of other problems for the OP pertaining to what type of person she is. She may never cheat again, but that doesn't mean that she's going to be a great wife. She's clearly determined in getting what she wants. It can be a great trait to have or a personality defect. It depends on the boundaries in place and whether she develops a healthy value system that is compatible with marriage.


Firstly I am not sure that it did, really! Secondly, it is very easy to get the girl if you give her the freedom to sleep with whomever she wants anytime she feels like.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

skyhawk said:


> I know it's only 7 months, but I'm calling it a win as the last 6 months have been exceptionally happy. There seem to be so few good news relationship stories here that it is worth sharing the wins, even if it took an unconventional path to get there.


Regardless of the steps you took to improve things, note that seven months is very likely too short to call it a win yet. You have 20+ years of bad marriage habits to address. You also have a whole lot of emotional harm to you that does not seem to have been addressed. In some ways, this is more like a 24 year affair than one that lasted a weekend. There is a very real risk that these bubble up on you in surprising ways.

So make sure that you don't just focus on her or the marriage, but also direct some energy and effort to you and your health.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> I threw up in my mouth a little. I cannot fathom allowing yourself to be second place for all these years.


Meh. It's the internet.

If it seems too vile, disgusting, and pathetic to be true, there's a pretty good chance its not true.

If OP is real and genuine, then he is really and genuinely unwell. I mean, you read that post you quoted and you have a textbook example of someone whose perspective is 3 sigma west of strange.

I feel mildly compelled to acknowledge forum rule 8, and say something supportive.

OP, congratulations- you have exactly the woman you deserve!


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

NotLikeYou said:


> Meh. It's the internet.
> 
> If it seems too vile, disgusting, and pathetic to be true, there's a pretty good chance its not true.
> 
> ...


Feel better now?


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I'm glad that you have come back and are sharing how things are going. Many people never do this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great point! Perhaps one can start a thread on this- or have a forum staff add this to the category page.


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> If OP is real and genuine, then he is really and genuinely unwell.



Despite agreeing with elegirl regarding people who have had a successful reconciliation- I don't believe this one to be the case. 

I am thoroughly confounded at the context of a lot of responses in this thread. This is clearly a very sick man. Really- he comes off as very broken to me. Always defending his cruella deville of a wife- even coming back SIX MONTHS LATER - to defend her. Leave the poor guy alone. He needs help. But don't call a diseased man's situation disgusting or pathetic- and taunt his pride. I hope he comes back here when he needs advice and support again.


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Lastly- has anyone considered the possibility that he might be a closet swinger- he did entertain the idea so well. Including the part where the wife has called out the exes name several times during orgasm? And perhaps neither him nor wife would admit to each other of wanting to swing bc of religious views/alleged code of moral conducts. 

And no. I'm not a swinger myself.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Fellow posters,
> 
> Most of you are damaged goods in the relations department.
> 
> ...



I agree with all that you said but I can't help but have two primary thoughts as I read this thread. The first is the quote, "if you love someone let them go, if they return they're forever yours" and the second thought is how to become someone's Plan A.

I think the first thought applies to finding that true love before you get married, not afterwards, or at least that is how I understand it. The second idea is one that we've seen on CWI many times. To become Plan A again, you can pursue MC, do the 180 etc,.. but you absolutely should insist that your SO adhere to the marriage vows.

As See_Listen_Love states, what have you really accomplished if your SO does as you request and complies with the marriage vows? You're still Plan B. If becoming Plan A is the goal, and I think we'd all agree it is, then at what cost or sacrifice?

OP demonstrated his love to his wife, perhaps not in the way most of us would have done it, but he did want her to face her fantasy and either choose it or choose him. She chose him and in that sense, it seemed to have worked.

Now his wife did not demonstrate her love for him, like he did for her, and instead chose to indulge in her own selfish interests and betrayed him.

OP is now Plan A or so it appears but is left with the stark reality that his wife doesn't really love him in the same way that he seems to love her. I just find this whole situation to be sad as I am a pro marriage guy. I will always want to be my W's Plan A but I also want her to be willing to sacrifice for me and put my needs above hers when the situation calls for it. She's done that for me. I'm just not sure that OP's wife would ever do that for him and that's a sad relationship to be in IMO. In that sense, have you really won?


----------



## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

She'll do it again, there are no consequences for her actions. OP has given her the option to "shop around". If she dont care for it, trusty ole plan b is at home waiting for his turn.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mostlycontent said:


> OP demonstrated his love to his wife, perhaps not in the way most of us would have done it, but he did want her to face her fantasy and either choose it or choose him. She chose him and in that sense, it seemed to have worked.


I would argue that she chose the OM. Then when that didn't work out as she had fantasized she decided to drop the OM and come back to her husband. So her husband was second choice behind OM.

As usual, the AP turns out not to live up to the fantasy created in the cheater's mind. That is what happened here.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'll be the first to call out the masses of TAM when they gang up on someone with an almost self-riteous uniform voice that is overpoweringly rigid. No room for opposing viewpoints and multi-faceted approaches are unrealistic.

However.....

This is probably the single most powerful example of me agreeing with the masses I've ever read on this forum.

Skyhawk...I am happy that you are happy. But I am sad for you that it will not last. It WILL NOT last. 

There are only 2 ways this can go:

1. She realizes after a while she wants another taste of something different.

2. You realize that you can't reconcile what she's done to you since your engagement.

Personally I can't tell you what I would do definitively since I have the benefit of not being in your position. But if I had to guess, I would probably hate my wife forever.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Thor said:


> I would argue that she chose the OM. Then when that didn't work out as she had fantasized she decided to drop the OM and come back to her husband. So her husband was second choice behind OM.
> 
> As usual, the AP turns out not to live up to the fantasy created in the cheater's mind. That is what happened here.


I don't disagree with you. She did choose the OM first but realized it wasn't what she had hoped and tossed him back into the water, as it were, but OP is the Plan A now or maybe more aptly put, a consolation Plan A. At least for the time being.

The fact that anyone could cast you aside and hurt you to that degree just screams to me that they don't really love you and never really have.

My W dated a guy for 18 months several years before she met me. She had a lot in common with him, loved his personality and sense of humor and even found him mildly attractive. Had he not still been in college, he may have asked her to marry him and she may have even strongly considered it, primarily because she hadn't been with anyone that she was truly in love with and super attracted to before. 

She's told me many times that she would have never experienced the kind of passion, romance and love that she had with me but didn't even know that's what she would have been missing. Thankfully, it didn't work out that way but I think a lot of people marry that person. I think that's what OP's wife did 20 something years ago.

A lot of people have those kinds of marriages because I see them everywhere even amongst my neighbors. Once my W and I met, we had all those things that she had experienced with her previous boyfriend plus a base animal attraction and passion for one another that she didn't have before. You either have it for someone or you don't. Sounds to me like OP's wife never had it for him.

I just think that OP's wife married her Plan B from the start and that was really unfair to OP, whether she intended it or not. She probably should have broken off the relationship when she first met this OM and pursued that first. If/when that didn't work out, then and only then could she have given OP a fair chance to be her Plan A.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

A. Had he Not let her go:
Always she would be in her hart with an probably very rosy picture of what was and what could have been. He would always wonder if he besides her body would also have her mind.

B: Now he Let her go:
She has had a dose of reality, it was probably not conform the rosy pictures. They or one of the two, decided to go back to their old life. Either way, it was not the paradise she may have imagined.

Yes, in the worst case it is settling for plan B.

But that is because plan be turned out to be better than plan A.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

lenzi said:


> Feel better now?


Well.

Generally, I skip followup posting, preferring to wander off into the ether. But occasionally, some response is so incisive, so penetrating, so cliff-hanger-ey, that I am called back to blather on some more.

This is one of those cases, thankyouverymuch lenzi!

No, I don't feel better. 

Psychopaths are insane people who lack empathy and suffer from, among other things, an inability to relate to other people. I think that everyone commenting here is, kind of by default, non-psychopathic. They read skyhawk's post and feel a variety of emotions, almost none of them good. And you can put me firmly in that category.

Mocking him and showering him with contempt doesn't do any good. It's not going to persuade him to change in a healthy direction with respect to his relationship.

But, see, here's the weird thing. Mocking him and showering him with contempt doesn't actually do any harm, either. Because it's not going to persuade him to change in a healthy direction with respect to his relationship.

He isn't here for advice, or support. He's here to declare an awful choice to be a victory as defined by his own criteria. He came to TAM and asked for advice and opinions, and boy did he get them. He ignored them, which is, of course, his right. 

This thread is about doubling down, and anyone striving for health, normalcy, and sanity instinctively knows that this is screwed up.

His original thread caused so much turmoil that it got locked down.

I can't honestly say I agree with his choice, or respect it, or condone it in any way. So, really, I have to "agree to disagree" with it, or go the mockery and contempt route. Or strive for indifference and find some other thread to read, which is actually a really good idea.

Nothing I have experienced in life leads me to believe that Skyhawk's choices as described here will bring him to a better, healthier place in his life. 

And despite being all silly and sarcastic, it genuinely pains me to read someone making choices in life that I believe will damage them more than they already are.

Okay, now I feel a little better.

But still not good enough.

This calls for a joke.

A blind man walks into a department store with his seeing eye dog.

He makes his way to the center of the store, and then takes a firm grip on the leash and begins swinging his dog around him in a circle.

The dog is yelping and crying in terror, and the Sales Manager runs up and says

"STOP! Stop! Quit swinging your dog! What the hell are you doing, anyway, Mister?"

"Just looking around......"

Be sure to tip your waitstaff, I'll be here all week.......


----------



## skyhawk (Jan 6, 2014)

Well apparently group-think disables the ability of any member of the "group" from actually reading... isn't that interesting... It appears there is a stream of responses to what others thought might have been intended or meant, with a few who actually read and think about posts.

Regardless, I have some questions.

Can you please describe a good marriage? (Use dot points if you like.)

Could a marriage that has had infidelity ever become "good" or is it considered forever "bad"?

Can a person "repent" and change or is there a point where a personality is fixed?

How can someone demonstrate a change of heart in a way that would be considered "acceptable"?

thanks.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK I'll bite ...

_Can you please describe a good marriage? (Use dot points if you like.)_

Many definitions for a good marriage but in dot points:

Love
Mutual respect
Honesty
Trust
Empathy
No major secrets
In sickness and in health
Did I mention love, respect and honesty

_Could a marriage that has had infidelity ever become "good" or is it considered forever "bad"?_

A marriage involving infidelity will *never* be the same is all anyone can really say. The chances of most people recovering are slim. In order for it to "work" (not be good or even the same), it has to be broken and you have to start all over again albeit with a totally different mindset - the trust is normally gone.

_Can a person "repent" and change or is there a point where a personality is fixed?_

A person can repent and change, yes, but only if they truly understand and own what they did wrong in the first place.

_How can someone demonstrate a change of heart in a way that would be considered "acceptable"?_

By demonstrably showing that they understand and own what they did wrong in the first place. It starts with owning up to the difficult truth. It continues with being honest about your right to walk away from this marriage and doing everything they can to make it easy for you to do whatever you need to do, but being thankful if you choose to stay (knowing it could end at any time). Then comes all the other stuff about transparency, empathy with your triggers etc.

OK so now here is some of the truth that your wife needs to tell you:


I never really loved you to start with.
I was in love with OM and wanted him all the time.
I made a mistake in marrying you at the time.
I am selfish and still wanted to f**k him and would have preferred it if he was my first to.
This is disrespectful to you but I thought that you wanted me so bad, you would not mind.
I managed to guilt you (because I am that good at manipulation) into paying for me to finally go f**k him.
It turns out that he is not that good a f**k and/or he doesn't really offer me much and I think now that my itch is scratched, I would probably have a more stable life with you, after all I have grown quite fond of you. Until the next time I have an itch, that is.
If you are OK with all of this, the truth is that my respect for you will have gone down further but I am willing to try. I love you.
If you are not OK with all of this, there is a glimpse of somebody I could respect and truly fall in love with.

If she is this honest, then yes she can repent and start to make amends. In any case your existing marriage is broken and you need to start all over again. You do not appear to be doing this but instead think you won something - that is delusional.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I do not understand the black and white reasoning and the use of the harsh tone, manfromlamancha.

This way of 'logic' is a self defined spectrum of logic. Your harsh logic. Reality is much more diverse, and different persons have their own systems of logic. Why choose such a limited version?


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK so you explain to me what you see happening here or some possible explanation for it that is different from mine. I can only go on what OP has said to us here and from what he has said where have I been wrong about anything ?

He said she was in love with the OM.
He said she wished her first time was with OM.
He said she called out OM's name in the throes of sex.
He said she never got over it (the itch).
He said she thought about OM all the time.
He said that she would normally have married the OM if circumstances permitted (never really understood why she didn't).
He said that he sent her off to OM.
He said that they didn't really hit it off and she came back to him.

OK all that is fact according to him.

Now my (as you put it) black and white logic says that he was her second choice and that it was wrong of her to go and try and get the OM out of her system while married to OP.

My logic also says that she was selfish to do this. It also says that most of their marriage was a lie and that she has to admit to all of this before they can build something worth having going forward.

And experience says that her respect for him would have gone down (this is the only questionable point maybe).


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

It reminds me of the difference between guys that study electronics in my youth and the computernerds now, and the people I have learned to appreciate later in life. Those with understanding of situations, emotions, feelings and love. Whole different worlds. 

In the world of the former everything is short, quick and simple. Concrete buildings on streets of asphalt. Hell.

In the world of the latter we live in Hobbit country. Hills, trees, flowers. Elves. Paradise.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK so you explain to me what you see happening here or some possible explanation for it that is different from mine. I can only go on what OP has said to us here and from what he has said where have I been wrong about anything ?
> 
> He said she was in love with the OM.
> He said she wished her first time was with OM.
> ...


Most things in life have a diverse spectrum of perspectives. This situation does not. The women did not love him during the engagement or during marriage.

And now she's settling. I don't for a second believe she turned the other man down. 

Skyhawk you are worth so much more to a woman in this world. There are plenty of them out there that will treat you with so much more love and respect. I know you feel like things are great now, and they probably are. But it's the trust and unknown that will get to you in the future.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Most things in life have a diverse spectrum of perspectives. This situation does not. The women did not love him during the engagement or during marriage.
> 
> And now she's settling. I don't for a second believe she turned the other man down.
> 
> Skyhawk you are worth so much more to a woman in this world. There are plenty of them out there that will treat you with so much more love and respect. I know you feel like things are great now, and they probably are. But it's the trust and unknown that will get to you in the future.


He doesn't want love or respect. He's made that clear. He wants his wife. He wants what he wants, so that is that. He's made his decision.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

While I agree that what Skyhawk did allow him to stay married and that was his wish. My point, and that of his detractors, is we would not want a marriage with someone who needed to betray us in order to find out if they want us. That is a defect in her, her thinking, her maturity, her character, and her emotional stability. She is a person who only saw betrayal as a way to make her whole. I could not bet my well being on such a person. Skyhawk got what he wanted. His W got what she wanted. It takes all kinds. Their happy now, I'm glad for them. I myself don't believe in marriage at all cost, some do. You can find plenty of them over at DB, if that's for you.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> While I agree that what Skyhawk did allow him to stay married and that was his wish. My point, and that of his detractors, is we would not want a marriage with someone who needed to betray us inorder to find out if they want us. That is a defect in her, her thinking, her maturity, and her emotional stability. I could not bet my well being on such a person. Skyhawk got what he wanted. His W got what she wanted. It takes all kinds. Their happy now, I'm glad for them. I myself don't believe in marriage at all cost, some do.


Yup Yup! I would not rank this a success. Telling your spouse to leave his/her family to go bang someone else until they satisfy an itch, is not healthy for your family or humans in general.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> I don't disagree with you. She did choose the OM first but realized it wasn't what she had hoped and tossed him back into the water, as it were, but OP is the Plan A now or maybe more aptly put, a consolation Plan A. At least for the time being.
> 
> The fact that anyone could cast you aside and hurt you to that degree just screams to me that they don't really love you and never really have.
> 
> ...


I really agree with this post, not only objectively, but also because it describes a situation quite similar to mine, the only difference being that I did marry the person. And we divorced because the spark was just not there, for me. He was exactly as described above, mildly attractive, funny, nice, intelligent, etc.

The "base animal attraction and passion" is what I have now with my second husband. He's really "the one". This is one of the reasons I agreed with many of the posters who were advising Skyhawk to end the relationship. Everyone deserves to meet their chemical match! This is really the foundation of true love, in my opinion, and what is the point of going through the motions if you don't have it?

Skyhawk, I didn't comment on your other thread. I do hope you find happiness in your situation. I think you really deserve it because you've made lots of sacrifices for your wife and family.


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

The question here is: skyhawk got his wife. But at what cost? And is he ok with that cost? Here is where we get many different opinions. But only one answer matters and that is skyhawk's. 

He will have to deal with all the different scenarios that might be in hold for his future. As he seems okay with it. And that's all that matters. 

What I see are a lot of traditional views. I myself am somewhat a traditionalist. But some of the most liberal universities in this country (ie Harvard) are also the most advanced in progressive thinking. This country is moving forward and forward is going to introduce and reveal people and ways of thinking we might not be comfortable with. But skyhawk just had the balls to put it out there. Ultimately. This might be too traditional/conservative of a marriage forum for him. So Altho this place will have the type of ideas that I seek - it does not work for someone such as he. Which is why many of you feel as though you've reached a "dead end" with him. 

To each their own.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> It reminds me of the difference between guys that study electronics in my youth and the computernerds now, and the people I have learned to appreciate later in life. Those with understanding of situations, emotions, feelings and love. Whole different worlds.
> 
> In the world of the former everything is short, quick and simple. Concrete buildings on streets of asphalt. Hell.
> 
> In the world of the latter we live in Hobbit country. Hills, trees, flowers. Elves. Paradise.


Not wishing to threadjack, that is a gross generalisation of electronic engineers of then and as you put it "computer nerds" of now. I am pretty sure that I am older than you and was both of these things before I moved into sales and marketing. Most of the fellow engineers and computer nerds that I knew had both sides (left and right) of their brain working and were also brilliant artists, musicians and philosophers/theologians. The so called liberal arts and business majors constituted majority of the "bullish!t" artists of the time at the two universities I attended (not saying this is true of all places) so completely disagree with you. They were the ones really with the real prejudices and black and white ways of thinking whereas the guys I studied with were the most fluid in their viewpoints and opinions. Pretty sure this is true in the Benelux region particularly in Belgium (I speak with personal experience of the Antwerp region in particular) and Luxembourg. In the Netherlands, the most talented artists I know have a technical background. Just a reference to your part of the world. But 'nuff said and I'll get off my soapbox now.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> It was never a question of "trying another man". The OM was a special case. What Skyhawk did was give her a chance to get over it. And it worked.
> 
> Look at it this way. If Skyhawk had managed to keep her from going to see the OM, he'd have spent the rest of his marriage with an upset wife and, in my opinion, a ruined marriage.
> 
> The "advice" offered by many folks here was to divorce. * That would not have saved the marriage*. Skyhawk wanted it saved if possible. In my opinion with divorce as the main option, Skyhawk took the only option with a chance of preserving the marriage....


If having an affair is the only way to save a marriage, the marriage ain't worth it. I assumed most people shared that opinion.

IMO, not every marriage is worth saving. 

Saving a marriage at all costs is not saving anything. I mean seriously...think of what it means to be married; forsaking all others, including the guy you were cheating on him with when you were engaged.

If this guys thinks he won (at 6 month in), good for him. I think he lost, *big time*, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Funny thing about itches is they come back. They always come back.


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...898-wanting-close-open-relationship-help.html


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> If she chooses to be with you voluntarily, she is.


Pfffft....

She's not choosing. She's settling. 

Skyhawk should be granted a couple of hall passes.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

If this is what a "win" for the reconciliation party looks like, it explains why the Reconciliation sub-forum looks like it is taking a nap.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I'll bite ...
> 
> _Can you please describe a good marriage? (Use dot points if you like.)_
> 
> ...


*How do you know she's not been honest? How do you now she's not repented. Skyhawk says she's done those things. And where does the notion of a broken marriage come from? It seemed to me that it was far less broken than 90% of the marriages reported on here in TAM in the CWI section.

I see no reason whatsoever as to why almost everyone here is bent out of shape. It is true that the problem was somewhat unusual. And it is also true that the solution was definitely unusual.

Don't forget. With a bit of planning the wife could have left Skyhawk for a week-long trip to Puxatawny to see a long-lost uncle, and then come back at the end of the week without Skyhawk being any the wiser. Then he'd never have posted here and we'd not even be discussing the case.

We are here because she DID talk to Skyhawk, not because the didn't.
*


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> While I agree that what Skyhawk did allow him to stay married and that was his wish. My point, and that of his detractors, is we would not want a marriage with someone who needed to betray us in order to find out if they want us. That is a defect in her, her thinking, her maturity, her character, and her emotional stability. She is a person who only saw betrayal as a way to make her whole. I could not bet my well being on such a person. Skyhawk got what he wanted. His W got what she wanted. It takes all kinds. Their happy now, I'm glad for them. I myself don't believe in marriage at all cost, some do. You can find plenty of them over at DB, if that's for you.


You make a good point. However, think of the usual TAM story. The OP comes with a sad story about how the WS left their cell phone home and they discovered that the WS has been involved in an affair for years.

This story isn't like that at all, and for me that makes a difference. His wife may have "settled" for him at the start but after many years of marriage her emotions evidently changed. All this came to a head when she discovered that the OM was divorced. At that point she talked openly with the OP, no secrets. And a plan was devised. 

Was it the best plan? I have no idea, but it was the only plan that could save the marriage. If she'd stayed home, she would never have been happy and the OP would have had a horrible marriage because he'd know that she was not happy.

By letting her go, the situation changed. She'd either divorce him or realize that her dream of many years was in fact a fantasy and that the man she really wanted was her husband.

It was a brave choice, but the only one that could have gotten him what he wanted.

You (Anchorwatch) and many others, probably even including myself, would not have made that choice, thus condemning ourselves to a lifetime of misery. The OP had the guts to do the unconventional thing.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

IcePrincess28 said:


> The question here is: skyhawk got his wife. But at what cost? And is he ok with that cost? Here is where we get many different opinions. But only one answer matters and that is skyhawk's.
> 
> He will have to deal with all the different scenarios that might be in hold for his future. As he seems okay with it. And that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


I thought Skyhawk gave us his opinion. No?


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> Was it the best plan? I have no idea, but it was the only plan that could save the marriage. If she'd stayed home, she would never have been happy and the OP would have had a horrible marriage because he'd know that she was not happy.
> 
> By letting her go, the situation changed. She'd either divorce him or realize that her dream of many years was in fact a fantasy and that the man she really wanted was her husband.
> 
> ...


I would also not have done what the OP did. Having said that, if I had known that I wasn't her true love or her first choice, I wouldn't have married her in the first place.

Now if I didn't find out until years into the marriage that I wasn't her first choice or perhaps still wasn't her first choice, I would either divorce or separate. I suppose my ego couldn't handle being my W's eternal Plan B. 

I would go find a woman with which I would be her Plan A. I think that's the route most would likely take. In OP's case, the heart wants what the heart wants though and he was willing to do what he had to do to keep the love of his life. In some respects, I can admire such determination. Truthfully, I don't think I could ever really want someone that didn't want me equally. 

Love is a choice and the second I heard that you aren't my first choice and never were, I'd flip the switch and decide not to love that person any longer. Obviously, it's not quite as easy as all that but we do have some control in that case.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

When I was younger, I used to believe in all that "if love somebody, set them free....." and all that. that's when you are younger, have less to lose and more years to experience in life.

these days, I am like a lot of other people on TAM, and that is, don't waste my time with your indecision. I understand the reason now. giving others a carte blanche to come in and out of your life whenever THEY feel like it is doing you no favors. Letting your partner sample one or more prospects on your clock may not bring the satisfaction and resolution that they were looking for....... even though they say it does (with their fingers crossed behind their back, of course).

Even though I had THAT talk with my (now) fiance months before I found TAM, I knew that if he had waffled and asserted his right to be "friends" with whomever he pleased (including HER), that I would have been planning the next weekend without him........ (and all the weekends after that....)

Three years on, it appears to me that he has not looked back.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Fellow posters,
> 
> Most of you are damaged goods in the relations department.
> 
> ...


I disagree with this post at its most elementary level.

Society, by and large, as a group, follow a basic shared meme. That's how you get culture in a society.

There are different memes in north America. Japan. India. Even within parts of the country, each following a custom based on shared beliefs.

As such, we are not so much damaged goods with a skewed mindset here on tam. It's more like we are following our instincts as part of the larger meme.

If a poster was from a different culture, then I could see how the majority advise wouldn't fit. And I've seen some examples of that on this forum. 

However, giving the op advise as has been done on this post doesn't really make us damaged goods. Most of the advise is based on what should be done, following the culture of the posters...or the meme, if you will. We get this all the time....the script...the ilybinilwy speech, the standard responses of deflection and blame shifting. Once you live it...and hear the exact same story from every poster going through this mess...you can kind of guess the baseline thought pattern of how the wayward is thinking, and how the betrayed is reacting...either in an efficient and forward moving way....or just spinning the hamster wheel in thier mind over the betrayal.

In fact...we are not damaged goods at all.... Call us experienced.

In my own humble opinion....I couldn't give a rats azz on the decision the OP makes. I'm usually just out to give some solicited opinions about my own experience. In the end....it's really up to all of us to take that wisdom, dissect it, and come up with our ownmdecisions and plans that fit in each of our own situations.


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Except me...

I'm probably damaged goods.


----------



## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

A few thoughts....

1. OP - Glad you are finding happiness and I'll be hoping things work out for you long term.

2. OP was battling the fantasy of the other man, a battle in which he had no chance. He did however have a very good chance against the reality of the other man.

3. Misery loves company. There are many miserable posters on TAM and these individuals want others to help validate their own failures in relationships. OP - ignore them.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

People can change!
They just need the tools.
At the end of the day be willing to use these tools to be emotionally healthier.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

To bad so many wayward don't see how unhealthy it is to avoid commitment, deceive, and betray.....


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Except me...
> 
> I'm probably damaged goods.


No I'm damaged goods, but with a little duct tape I can repair my self.

Two weeks ago I wanted to send my old lady to the floor again, but I had the "duct tape" to check my sh1t and work it out with in my self and handle it in a way I wouldn't regret latter on.

Its amazing how consequences can change ones behavior....not for someone else but for your self!


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> I disagree with this post at its most elementary level.
> 
> Society, by and large, as a group, follow a basic shared meme. That's how you get culture in a society.
> 
> ...


My most elementary point is that there is often more complexity to a situation than the mental inputs of the person can perceive.

You show that happening between cultures, I say it also happens between different sorts op people IN a culture.

Which is actually already defined by the use of the word culture. It does not only apply to genetic, but also to geographic- , social- , educational- and age-groups.

I for myself also like to add the time dimension through the ages as such a cultural dimension like the others.

Your sensors are defined by genetic, and experience factors.

An illustration is that a lot of the threads here on CWI can be divided into two groups, the Alpha male character, indifferent to the emotional needs of his wife, causing her to look elsewhere and the Beta/doormat, trying to nice his wife into liking him and not go to other males.

Two major differing sorts, both in the North American subculture. And then the many other sorts....


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This is in response to sidney2718:

*That's too bad. I guess my 55 year marriage just won't fit the criteria. We fail at least one of the points*

I did start this off by saying there are many definitions for a good marriage and this was an attempt at what I would expect to see - I did not say this was the definitive list. Whatever point you and your wife fail on may not be a major issue to you and her so good for you! I didn't see a list from you by the way so it is easy to sit back and pick at other's lists.

*This does not answer the question. Skyhawk did not ask if he could ever go back to the early days of his marriage. He asked if it could become good by your own definition of good. (P.S. None of us has the same marriage we had back at the start.)*

I did not say anything about "the early days of his marriage" (which were also [email protected] by the way with his wife calling out the OM's name during sex etc). It does answer his actual question, if you read it properly. The answer I gave is that because your existing marriage at the time of infidelity (whatever the state was and nothing to do with it being the same as back at the start) is changed by infidelity. Therefore instead of trying to make it "good", for it to work you have to think in terms of starting it again i.e. with new terms and conditions, boundaries and a marked decrease in trust. This is based on the (few) cases where R seems to be working. I think it answers the question very well and as per TAM experience.

*Who is to judge true understanding and what was done wrong?*
Ultimately, the people who are trying to reconcile or as the OP put it, the person who is "trying to repent and change" and the person he/she is repenting to. Pining for, wanting to sleep with and going on to sleep with someone else is generally considered the wrong thing to do in a marriage by a majority on this planet which is where our social customs come from but I might be wrong. I know there are a magnanimous few who do not see something as trivial as their wife wanting to sleep with her boyfriend as "wrong" and I, for one, do not actually salute them.

Funnily enough, in my next answer to the next question you go on to agree with my idea of wrong and what needs to be done to try and fix it.

*This is HORRIBLE. You make all sorts of assumptions about the marriage now and in the past. Practically every point contains assumptions. I have no idea where you got those assumptions. We've read the same postings in this thread and I don't see many of the things you assume.*

Most of what I listed was what the OP said. The last bits about a wife losing respect for someone who is OK with his wife going off to "scratch the itch she has had for so long" is general TAM experience. I agree it is horrible and yet the OP has put up with it.




sidney2718 said:


> *How do you know she's not been honest? How do you now she's not repented. Skyhawk says she's done those things. And where does the notion of a broken marriage come from? It seemed to me that it was far less broken than 90% of the marriages reported on here in TAM in the CWI section.
> 
> I see no reason whatsoever as to why almost everyone here is bent out of shape. It is true that the problem was somewhat unusual. And it is also true that the solution was definitely unusual.
> 
> ...


I did not say that she hasn't been honest and truly repented. All I said was that the OP isn't even tackling the true remorse and accepting what she did wrong very well and if she is like most others who have cheated (especially this blatantly) she will lose respect for him. And by the way, you are making assumptions that she could have planned and left to go and cheat. Maybe she could and maybe she couldn't. The problem, I think, is more to do with her not being able to restrain herself from calling out the OM's name during sex with her husband, crying and getting depressed that she didn't have sex with the OM first etc etc - again in some majority of the population of this planet, that would be seen as disrespectful. Her planning to go away and cheat would have been the icing on the cake. Instead, after so many years and kids, she gives him the potential ILYBNILWY speech and then says that she is miserable because of not being with the OM. And the debate here is how OP handled this. He even said at some stage that he thought the OM was quite noble (because he first tried to talk the WW out of sleeping with him but then went ahead and bedded her anyway!).


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

waylan said:


> A few thoughts....
> 
> 1. OP - Glad you are finding happiness and I'll be hoping things work out for you long term.
> 
> ...


So what you are saying that every time a wife fancies another man, a possible solution is to let her go off and sample the other man and then is she comes back, the husband won! Simply because he has no chance against a fantasy. The results of infidelity on this forum do not seem to prove this right. It may have worked in terms of the OP's wife coming back but I somehow think that if he is honest, his self-esteem took a real bashing at the very least. Still different strokes for different folks! What do you think would have happened if he let his wife do this right at the start of the marriage when she hadn't built up any stability or family with him ? Do you still think she would have come back ?

And the misery you refer to on TAM is actually experience! Which is why many come here for advice (which can be brutal but is normally spot on). Ignoring the advice is always an option and many do. However the results we have seen here (with people ignoring the advice) have been devastating.


----------



## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> So what you are saying that every time a wife fancies another man, a possible solution is to let her go off and sample the other man and then is she comes back, the husband won! Simply because he has no chance against a fantasy. The results of infidelity on this forum do not seem to prove this right. It may have worked in terms of the OP's wife coming back but I somehow think that if he is honest, his self-esteem took a real bashing at the very least. Still different strokes for different folks! What do you think would have happened if he let his wife do this right at the start of the marriage when she hadn't built up any stability or family with him ? Do you still think she would have come back ?
> 
> And the misery you refer to on TAM is actually experience! Which is why many come here for advice (which can be brutal but is normally spot on). Ignoring the advice is always an option and many do. However the results we have seen here (with people ignoring the advice) have been devastating.


This wasn't a guy that she took a fancy to when out shopping. This was fantasy that was built up over decades..... Personally, I wouldn't have wanted my wife anymore if i were in the same situation. But if the goal was to salvage the marriage - I believe the OP took the most effective strategy.

As far as misery - Skyhawk is happy and has been 6 months. Why is so hard for some people to be happy for others here? The fact that you and I wouldn't be happy in the same scenario doesn't mean we can't be happy for Skyhawk.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Two major differing sorts, both in the North American subculture. And then the many other sorts....


You mean the " do whatever makes you feel good, damn the consequences" mentality so predominant among Europeans?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

waylan said:


> This wasn't a guy that she took a fancy to when out shopping. This was fantasy that was built up over decades..... Personally, I wouldn't have wanted my wife anymore if i were in the same situation. But if the goal was to salvage the marriage - I believe the OP took the most effective strategy.
> 
> As far as misery - Skyhawk is happy and has been 6 months. Why is so hard for some people to be happy for others here? The fact that you and I wouldn't be happy in the same scenario doesn't mean we can't be happy for Skyhawk.


Because it's a fake happiness. 

He's brainwashed himself into believing this was the right thing to do.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You mean the " do whatever makes you feel good, damn the consequences" mentality so predominant among Europeans?


Hey, we are not all the same


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Hey, we are not all the same


Then quit lumping all North Americans into one basket.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> When I was younger, I used to believe in all that "if love somebody, set them free....." and all that. that's when you are younger, have less to lose and more years to experience in life.
> 
> these days, I am like a lot of other people on TAM, and that is, don't waste my time with your indecision. I understand the reason now. giving others a carte blanche to come in and out of your life whenever THEY feel like it is doing you no favors. Letting your partner sample one or more prospects on your clock may not bring the satisfaction and resolution that they were looking for....... even though they say it does (with their fingers crossed behind their back, of course).
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear that. I wish you joy and happiness.

If you get a chance, go back and find Skyhawk's original posting. It describes a situation that does not often come up on TAM. It is something I think we can all learn from, especially as it seem to be working out for him and his wife.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> My most elementary point is that there is often more complexity to a situation than the mental inputs of the person can perceive.
> 
> You show that happening between cultures, I say it also happens between different sorts op people IN a culture.
> 
> ...


I agree, and would only add that the 50% or so divorce rate* in the US would seem to indicate that there is NO generally agreed to set of behaviors.

* Add to this the fact that something like 40% of children born in the US now come from single parent homes. That figure includes a lot of couples who have, for various reasons, simply not married. Or as one member of my extended family said: "not marrying makes separation much easier."


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> This is in response to sidney2718:
> 
> *That's too bad. I guess my 55 year marriage just won't fit the criteria. We fail at least one of the points*
> 
> ...


We shall have to agree to disagree.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> So what you are saying that every time a wife fancies another man, a possible solution is to let her go off and sample the other man and then is she comes back, the husband won!
> 
> *I don't think anyone is saying that. We are talking about situations where there was a previous to the marriage relationship between the wife and the OM*.
> 
> ...


*There is a thread in CWI entitled (if I recall correctly) The Current State of CWI, or something like that. In it folks discuss what the actual TAM experience is. Some of that applies here.*


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You mean the " do whatever makes you feel good, damn the consequences" mentality so predominant among Europeans?


Oh my...


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Because it's a fake happiness.
> 
> He's brainwashed himself into believing this was the right thing to do.


And you know this how?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> And you know this how?


I don't. Like you I have an opinion. Please excuse me, oh exalted One, for not agreeing with you.

What is your story Sydney? Have you been cheated on?


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Then quit lumping all North Americans into one basket.


Eh? That wasn't me mate.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> You mean the " do whatever makes you feel good, damn the consequences" mentality so predominant among Europeans?


Not only, no that is not what I mean, but this notion does not appear anywhere in what I say or think.

Unless you want for other reasons to rant about European, I don't see why you would come up with that.

By the way, I would type the USA way of going about more like it than the European. In Europe I see more the old culture influences combined with modern/modernist thinking as the main stream of philosophy. In the US I see pragmatic thinking as the main lead to action.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

NextTimeAround said:


> W*hen I was younger, I used to believe in all that "if love somebody, set them free....." and all that. that's when you are younger, have less to lose and more years to experience in life.
> 
> these days, I am like a lot of other people on TAM, and that is, don't waste my time with your indecision. I understand the reason now. giving others a carte blanche to come in and out of your life whenever THEY feel like it is doing you no favors. Letting your partner sample one or more prospects on your clock may not bring the satisfaction and resolution that they were looking for....... even though they say it does (with their fingers crossed behind their back, of course).*


 I want to make a comment about this... Now in this scenario.. this man , Skyhawk was married and as I understand, he allowed his WIFE to go have sex (I see sex as giving your heart, soul and body as becoming ONE -it's not a little thing).... anyway.. then she decides for whatever reason (did not follow this whole thread) that she made a horrendous mistake and now is fully remorseful and wants Husband back forever more.. she has shown herself to be transparent, exposed her sins to all ..... so he feels , all is fair in love and war, I have her now.. so all is good. Correct?

Speaking of not putting up with the indecision of some -while dating I assume... I have my own story and I am thankful my Husband allowed what he allowed.. but I didn't have sex with "that other guy"... 

When I was dating my Husband (met him at 15).. I went through a phase wondering "OMG I never dated anyone else!"... my Grandmother always pounded it into me..don't go marrying the 1st guy you date... to "play the field a bit"...that's what she called it..... after yrs of being together.. I started to question these things... there was another guy interested in me ...I gave his ring back, I explained how I felt in this.. that I HAD to be sure.. (I am very honest, I would never lie to him)...and I shortly went out with another guy.. and God Help me.. I used that saying.. "*If you love something let it go free......(with that ending)....if it comes back to you, love it forever* "... 

Now here is the thing.. I didn't believe in giving myself sexually but to ONE man, the man I marry.. so he KNEW I wouldn't be screwing this guy.. and I didn't.. I did come back to my husband.. it didn't take long.. that experience, gave me the clarity I needed... shorty after this, we planned our wedding & I never looked back.. I even feel to this day, I needed that experience. 

Now I can tell you this. Had I Fvcked him... my H would NEVER have taken me back.. and frankly, I wouldn't blame him!! I guess it is unrealistic in this day and age to expect people who date to not go there... 

Beings this man was Married, this was a breakage of the vows entirely. She became "one" with another...when she belonged to HIM... He had every right to dump her ass.. and never look back.. Divorce worthy..

I don't know. I wouldn't want to be 2nd Best...it would plague my mind... I don't think I could do what he did.. At the very least...I think the deciding factor would be this .... If this ex lover didn't want her.. it would be Divorce..that = he is officially 2nd Best.. 

If, however, she realized she didn't want him.. (but he still wanted her).. I don't know... it would be like she had some sort of revelation , finally seen the truth of how much she loved her husband, because he has always been there for her, and she was such a pathetic fool all these years chasing a fantasy that was EMPTY.

In my dating experience, that guy really liked me, I left him.. Of course my H was devastated at the time...but he knew I was just trying to find myself.. I was young, and he was the only Boy I was ever with.. After I got that out of my system (all we did was make out & kiss in his car)..... I missed my Best friend...I KNEW he was my forever.. but again.. *Sex *would have changed the outcome of that situation... as this would have been HIS *deal breaker* in taking me back.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't. Like you I have an opinion. Please excuse me, oh exalted One, for not agreeing with you.
> 
> What is your story Sydney? Have you been cheated on?


I'd like to point out for the record that Skyhawk was NOT cheated on. He knew what was going on. It may have been unwise, but it was NOT cheating.

Furthermore, what have my life experiences got to do with my opinions. I accept that you have been hurt by cheating. That does not make you the be all and end all expert on cheating.

As for the opinion bit, you did NOT state an opinion. You gave it as a fact. You do not know that it is a fact.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> I'd like to point out for the record that Skyhawk was NOT cheated on. He knew what was going on. It may have been unwise, but it was NOT cheating.
> 
> Furthermore, what have my life experiences got to do with my opinions. I accept that you have been hurt by cheating. That does not make you the be all and end all expert on cheating.
> 
> As for the opinion bit, you did NOT state an opinion. You gave it as a fact. You do not know that it is a fact.


Sidney,

Normally I can find some common ground with what you post but this statement is simply not true. Being aware of being wronged doesn't make it any less egregious.

I could know you were breaking into my house to steal my television. I could even watch you do it but that doesn't make it something other than "stealing" than if I wasn't home when you robbed me.

Being aware or even forewarned that your spouse was going to have an affair doesn't make it any less of an affair or any less wrong. Being informed beforehand doesn't change the act.

I can give you permission to cheat and then you do it. That doesn't mean that you didn't cheat or break the marriage vows because you did.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think OP was cheated on...I think his old lady emotional phucked him over by still having felling for some other dude..


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

sidney2718 said:


> I'd like to point out for the record that Skyhawk was NOT cheated on. He knew what was going on. It may have been unwise, but it was NOT cheating.


Hmmm, I wonder where Matt Matt is? According to your logic, he wasn't cheated on. 

Somehow I don't think that would make him fell better. It might even break through his British "stiff upper lip" and make him want to throw a punch at you.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

If anyone is wondering what the OP is up to now:



skyhawk said:


> I've about had enough, can you someone please tell me how to delete my account.
> thanks.


I guess he doesn't like our 'advice.' I can't offer much myself, I align my thinking far more along the lines of Bandit.45.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> I'd like to point out for the record that Skyhawk was NOT cheated on. He knew what was going on. It may have been unwise, but it was NOT cheating.


True. He was not cheated on. He was fully aware and supportive of his wife's decision to screw another man.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lenzi said:


> True. He was not cheated on. He was fully aware and supportive of his wife's decision to screw another man.


Do you think he will let her do it again if she finds another likely lad in a few months or years?


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Do you think he will let her do it again if she finds another likely lad in a few months or years?


He was willing to let her have him on the side, so I would imagine.

He needs to work on himself and why he has allowed this all these years.


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Do you think he will let her do it again if she finds another likely lad in a few months or years?


That's the danger of becoming a "doormat".

NOT saying OP has given himself to that, but when a WW senses that they can get away with anything they want to, it is a real possibility.


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

I know lots of people don't really like Doctor Laura, but one of her posts is "Don't ask why people continue to hurt you - ask why you continue to let them".


----------



## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> Furthermore, what have my life experiences got to do with my opinions.


One whole heck of a lot.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Do you think he will let her do it again if she finds another likely lad in a few months or years?


No, I don't think he'll do that. This was a unique situation which many folks tried to shoehorn into the standard mode.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

jim123 said:


> He was willing to let her have him on the side, so I would imagine.
> 
> He needs to work on himself and why he has allowed this all these years.


This is not what happened. Skyhawk agreed to her going off to see the OM for a week. She did. She realized that she'd been living with dream memories all those years. She came back and Skyhawk has told the rest in the first post on this thread.

So he was NOT agreeing to "let him have her on the side". It was a one shot deal that could easily have ended in divorce, but did not.

And he did not allow "this" (which I assume means sex) all these years. After their first year she was physically loyal to Skyhawk. In the first year, which was IIRC, twenty years ago, it is a bit confused.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think this is one of those rare instances where Skyhawk and his wife need to draw up an agreement for an open marriage or they need to split.


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> This is not what happened. Skyhawk agreed to her going off to see the OM for a week. She did. She realized that she'd been living with dream memories all those years. She came back and Skyhawk has told the rest in the first post on this thread.
> 
> So he was NOT agreeing to "let him have her on the side". It was a one shot deal that could easily have ended in divorce, but did not.
> 
> And he did not allow "this" (which I assume means sex) all these years. After their first year she was physically loyal to Skyhawk. In the first year, which was IIRC, twenty years ago, it is a bit confused.


Nope. In his first post on his original thread. The final sentence in the next to last paragraph. He says he is willing to let her have him on the side.

He also talks about a sexless honeymoon an sexless marriage. 

She would scream out OM name during sex. She had other crushes too.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

lenzi said:


> True. He was not cheated on. He was fully aware and supportive of his wife's decision to screw another man.


Technically, this is a true statement but I don't think for a minute that it was his desire for it to happen. It appears to me more like coercion. 

It's the same thing you see on Cop shows every week. They get a guy to plea to something less so he does less jail time. Many times, they are strictly coerced into admitting to something they didn't even do to prevent being found guilty in court for something worse.

Maybe not the best example but I can't help but believe that skyhawk felt like he had no choice in the matter, short of walking away from the marriage, if he didn't agree to her terms.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

lenzi said:


> True. He was not cheated on. He was fully aware and supportive of his wife's decision to screw another man.


I used to wonder a lot of how illogic other people seemed to reason.

Then I read about the idea that every person has a Thinking Frame.

My image of that is this:

Among other things, there is a flow system that looks like a piping construction where thoughts are processed. Via if then else constructions one comes to a conclusion.
Where the piping can have all sort of erroneous connections, faulty splits etc. etc.

The outcome for the person is totally logic, every time he thinks again, the same outcome is produced, after carefully going over the 'logic'.

To an outsider the construction can be somewhat or very flawed. Very or somewhat illogic.

Now your system produces '_He was fully aware and supportive of his wife's decision to screw another man_' when you input the case of OP.

I really think your piping and plumbing needs some rework, so you leave the iron hammered way of processing thoughts, and add some more nuances to the equation.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I really think your piping and plumbing needs some rework, so you leave the iron hammered way of processing thoughts, and add some more nuances to the equation.


Cheating denotes a deceptive act. As in, done without the other person's knowledge or consent. 

There's no deception here. Therefore, it is not cheating. 

Oh, and thanks for your unnecessary concern but regardless, do you know how hard it is to find a good plumber?


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

He is leaving folks. Too many attacks.

As much as his first thread bugs me... I still want a generic definition of how far his wife and the OM went.

IE kissing friday night
Up to oral Saturday night.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> He is leaving folks. Too many attacks.
> 
> As much as his first thread bugs me... I still want a generic definition of how far his wife and the OM went.
> 
> ...


We don't need to ask. 

She rode the OM like a donkey. Several times. She had fun. 

And she will do it again in the not too distant future with some other new OM.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Both his threads make me wonder if he does this just to get a kick out of it. Seems cruel, but hey at least she's back and you're happy with the silver medal so who cares eh?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

What is up with all the cuckold-ish threads the past 6 months?


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Cheating denotes a deceptive act. As in, done without the other person's knowledge or consent.
> 
> There's no deception here. Therefore, it is not cheating.
> 
> Oh, and thanks for your unnecessary concern but regardless, do you know how hard it is to find a good plumber?


These days I am confronted with some people thinking very stubborn their own line of thought. 

They are in deep trouble, a couple on the brink of divorce, with one serious ill, the other diabetes. An other couple, one with chronic pain (severe, getting worse), the other with breast cancer.

Three of these are where they are now, more or less, because of choices they made. 

It is very hard to see as an outsider how the person thinks he or she is trapped, and does not see a solution. But a solution here begins with seeing the problem. Their thinking system has not the ability to see reality as we see it. Their framing of reality in the past has caused the misery. The plumbing can only we repaired by showing the how it works, and to where it leads. If they see that, they can decide if they want to repair it. The repair itself is simple.


There is another couple with about the same as the last couple, but I am not trying to help these. They too are where they are because of their own choices. And yet another couple we try to contact for help, but the man avoids contact, the woman wants help.

So that is why I said what I said, I cannot convince you with arguments, they fail in your thinking frame. Only you can change your black and white plumbing. If you want. I can only try to show it. The above are heavy real life consequences of erroneous thinking. By choice.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> We don't need to ask.
> 
> She rode the OM like a donkey. Several times. She had fun.
> 
> And she will do it again in the not too distant future with some other new OM.


I don't believe this is true. Did he post this somewhere?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> I don't believe this is true. Did he post this somewhere?


Seems reasonable to me. Are we to think she thought starting this mess was worth it for a dinner date and holding hands?

Somebody wanted a run in the sack with the dude that was still renting space in her mind after all this time.


----------



## skyhawk (Jan 6, 2014)

Well it's getting on towards another 2 years later.

Got an email about a new password and was intrigued so doing a drive by.

I am sorry to disappoint all the naysayers but things have just continued to get better and better, Marriage is beyond brilliant, kids are winning academic awards and involved in volunteering.

So sometimes taking the road less traveled can have amazing results.

Please stop being so quick to tell everyone to get a divorce.

God Bless,
Skyhawk.





skyhawk said:


> About 7 months ago, I posted here about my situation, and I asked if anyone had a similar experience, the net result was general derision rather than support (there were a few who were kind and supportive they are greatly appreciated)
> 
> I'm not going to summarize the previous posts, you can go and read the situation. However half a year down the track I thought I would update the forum.
> 
> ...


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Yep. Keep telling yourself you did the right thing! Glad to hear that it works for you.

But if you don't mind, I will continue telling husbands not to send their wife off to fvck another man to get rid of the itch. Call me old fashioned! And to then divorce them if they insist on going by denying sex.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Follow up to &quot;Wife still in love with ex boyfriend&quot;*

This whole situation is beyond screwed up then you come back and gloat about it? What's wrong with you, dude?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well, at least YOU got the email most of us did not. 

If you are not having sex every night, you made the wrong decision.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Reading through this guy's initial thread now.

Wow. I guess some folks just don't deserve any better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Well, at least YOU got the email most of us did not.
> 
> If you are not having sex every night, you made the wrong decision.


Sex every night doesn't matter when she's calling out OM's name.

Or maybe that's the part that doesn't matter...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I am pleased that your marriage has become stellar. However, there is a point that I cannot reconcile in my mind and would ask for clarity. You indicated that you and your W were raised "strictly religious" and that she was a "very religious" person. If memory serves you indicated SDA as your affiliation. The quote below is from the SDA website concerning marriage.

_Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between a man and a woman who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, a man and a woman who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ through marriage may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving, tender, and caring guide who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God which embraces both single and married persons._

I cannot understand how someone who purports to believe in a faith, any faith for that matter, can so wantonly disregard its teachings. You have indicated that many here are uneducated and narrow minded and you certainly have the right to assert that but does your assertion include your God in that mix since many of the views here are directly in line with His laws and edicts? Do you purport to know more/better than your God? If so, would it not be prudent for Him to worship and obey you?

The verse above speaks of permanence and honor and loving unity but nowhere in the verbiage do I read about another man or woman in the equation. It speaks of growing in unity with the help of the church and the Spirit but not by fornicating outside the union. I am genuinely perplexed by this.

The only logical conclusion at which I can arrive is that you, and obviously your W, are not truly religious at all. Do you feel that your intellect has transcended your religious teachings and that they no longer apply to you?

So, if you believe that you and your W have cognitively advanced to the point that religious doctrines are no longer applicable to you two and that it was logical for your wife to do what she did does that imply that it is logical to disregard one's own core beliefs? And does that disregard apply only to religion or does it apply to the entirety of one's beliefs to include marriage and even the basics of right and wrong? And if it does, then why profess to believe anything?

You have somehow either packaged this all up into a manageable event and have, in a way that completely escapes me, reconciled it in your mind or you are simply deluding yourself. Neither of these are very healthy from a psychological standpoint. There is much here I find deeply troubling.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ugh, I remember this one...makes me vomit in my mouth a little...


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

glad to see you are happily ever after Plan B


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I feel very bad for you my friend. You are like a man in the eye of a hurricane who leaves his broken house, looks up and sees blue-sky and thinks, I did it, I made it. Little does he know that he has to survive a whole hell of a lot more yet, but now he is completely exposed. At least before he some idea what he was in for. What you are not ready for is that eventually your PTSD, emotional bonding, and adrenaline is going to go away, then you will see the second half of that hurricane. 

When you realize that you are married to a woman who could trade in your marriage, kids and your love for one night of f_cking, and you will, that is going to hit you like a a flying 2x4. Also when she realize that she has a husband that will let her go and f_ck another man and there are no consequences she will see you as a push over. No matter what the wisdom of the age says woman don't like weak men. I suspect this was part of the problem to begin with. Where is your passion where is your territorialism for your wife, family, yourself. 

Besides all that somehow now you think your marriage is heading on a good path, a path to recovery but you are dead wrong. What you have is not a picture of a good marriage even if there was no infidelity. Again if you were to have written all of this and she hadn't slept with someone else I would say that's awful. I will give you an example. I spent quite a bit of money this week and my wife was unhappy about it. So we basically argued about it for 3 days. Lots of things were said, not purposefully mean but harsh truthful uncomfortable things. I didn't like some of the things she said but it forced me to look at myself, I am sure she felt the same way. In the end I understood that what I did scared her because it seemed impulsive, she came to understand that I had put a hell of a lot more thought into spending the money then I communicated to her. I thought I had made her aware of this but she didn't get it. So in some ways it is on both of us, but for me it was a lesson that I have to make sure she understands my thought process because when she doesn't it makes her feel unsafe. Anyway the point is anyone looking into just this situation would think we are struggling, but NO this is why our relationship is healthy. We work through our problems (I don't say this to be boastful I only say it because this is the marriage I know.) 

In the same vain you are in a marriage where your wife feels if she needs something she can take a day and go outside of the marriage to get it, without your input at all, without any thought to your feelings at all, then she can come back and basically let you do whatever you want and she will do whatever you want and somehow that makes it alright. This is not a good marriage it is an awful one. It is the direct opposite of everything a marriage is supposed to be. Frankly you are so oblivious that you come on here and boast about how it worked out for you. From my point of view you have no clue. I can't say this in any stronger terms, YOUR WIFE ABUSED YOU. Even if she is she treats you wonderfully from now on, it doesn't take away the fact that she emotional knocked your teeth out. Again you are the guy in the middle of a hurricane. 

Last week was very difficult for me but I am so grateful that I have a wife who will let me know when she is unhappy and is willing to work with me as a partner. Not do what she wants and then be a slave. She respects me enough to be honest and difficult sometimes, and trusts me enough to work with me on it. That is a hell of a partner. I am blessed. 

So sorry dude, you are lost. Very very lost. Just remember hurricanes can kill people. This one my kill your soul if you are not careful.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

In hindsight, reading his first post, I do not believe his story, it is made up.


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

This guy is a troll. He is having his kicks. I grew up in an SDA household. This Church is a very tight community and everyone knows everybody's business. "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" is a huge 10th Commandment foundation. His wife would be shunned and her entire family in some form or another. Don't waste your time in this troll. He is having a good laugh!


----------

