# How to get her back



## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Hi everyone. I am going through separation with my wife at the moment. It's been a week since this was discussed. It started quite heated and I said things I regret. In the past week we have agreed for me to find my own place and help myself. I have a lot of issues, which I am now coming to terms with. 

Last night I did something really stupid. My wife said that she may well wait for me and has no plans to meet someone else. That is what I want. I want to get back on track, sort myself out, become the man I once was and be able to treat her and love her right again. But I threw it all away last night. I had a stupid thought that she may have cheated on my on a night out. So I read her messages and tried to tactfully get her to answer something. What I found was (in the end) quite harmless and nothing which meant she cheated, at all. I thought otherwise. In my attempt to question this she guessed I have read messages to her friend. I lied about this, then admitted it when she knew that is the only way I would know to push so many questions on her. It was like an interrogation. I messed up greatly.

There was an argument and she said that is it, no chance of going back from me invading her privacy. I understood, agreed and accepted her decision if that is what she wants. 

We don't hate each other, we love each other and our kids. We are amicable. 

I want her back. However, I totally agree I need to move out and sort my own problems. I wanted to get them sorted and woo her back when I got better. I told her this is what I wanted. But now there is no chance according to her. I have no thoughts of seeing someone else. I only have eyes for her and love her so much.

My question is... I still want to change and then win her back. What advice could you offer?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

What are these problems you are needing to work out in yourself? Drugs? Alcohol? Abuse? Infidelity? Chronic unemployment/underemployment? Mental health issues?


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> What are these problems you are needing to work out in yourself? Drugs? Alcohol? Abuse? Infidelity? Chronic unemployment/underemployment? Mental health issues?


Great question which I should have explained. Mainly mental health. Anger issues (not physical violence, I don't tolerate that!) Anxiety and depression. I will be cutting down on alcohol, but I wouldn't say that is an issue. Jealous for no reason. 

No one has cheated, we just turned toxic. However, I know now that I caused pretty much all of this.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

You cheated. Not sexually, but you cheated when you went through her personal communications without her knowledge or consent and then lied to cover it up. After that, why would she trust you? Trust is very easy to destroy and very, very difficult to rebuild.

I think you have to accept the fact that you have blown up your marriage. You no longer have a certain path to recovering it. 

I think that your best option now is to rebuild yourself. Become a better person. Learn to be trustworthy so that you can also learn to trust others. Put her needs ahead of yours. Accept that it means that you might lose her anyway.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

First, I assume you're seeing a therapist? If you have substantial problems, you need a professional's help to figure out WHAT to change, and how to do it. He/she will help you come up with a plan. Follow the professional's advice and do the homework he/she tells you to do. That's the only way to change yourself.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

You probably should have handles it different.

However: Privacy from someone you are supposed to live a life with? Supposed to know everything about you? Privacy is for keeping things from others.

I disagree with privacy in a marriage, except when you are stinking up the bathroom or passing gas.  Openness and full disclosure is the only way to foster trust.

The only reason someone needs or wants privacy is when they want to do something they are ashamed of or embarrassed about. But that's just us.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I agree with @red oak. She may have reached her limit on your anger and other issues and privacy is an excuse. 

You cannot communicate with each other unless you make changes. Really listen to her. Look her in the eye. Have angry responses and suspicion been your friend? Then let them go. When you drink you loosen your inhibitions--stop period. Don't let your or her resentment build until safe talk is impossible.

Find other outlets for your frustrations--exercise, physical hobbies, meditation (don't snicker).

Don't give up easily. Prove you are in this marriage for the long haul. Let her know what she means to you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FalCod said:


> *You cheated*. Not sexually, but you cheated when you went through her personal communications without her knowledge or consent and then lied to cover it up. After that, why would she trust you? Trust is very easy to destroy and very, very difficult to rebuild.
> 
> I think you have to accept the fact that you have blown up your marriage. You no longer have a certain path to recovering it.
> 
> I think that your best option now is to rebuild yourself. Become a better person. Learn to be trustworthy so that you can also learn to trust others. Put her needs ahead of yours. Accept that it means that you might lose her anyway.


eye roll.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

needtochange7 said:


> Great question which I should have explained. Mainly mental health. Anger issues (not physical violence, I don't tolerate that!) Anxiety and depression. I will be cutting down on alcohol, but I wouldn't say that is an issue. Jealous for no reason.
> 
> No one has cheated, we just turned toxic. However, I know now that I caused pretty much all of this.


Alcohol addiction leads to mental health issues.

Such as anxiety issues when you have not had a drink recently. 
Your body becomes a nervous wreck waiting for it's next alcohol fix.

Ditto, being angry. You are hung over most of the time. People act poorly when they are ill.

Naturally, a drunk is always making themselves ill by poisoning their body.

Depression? That occurs when dry, goes away temporally when sot.

On the jealousy thing....

Tell her you love her so much, that you are afraid she will meet someone else.
That is why you snooped. Then, apologize again. 

Eventually, she will find another man if you push her too far.

The answer?
Get yourself sober....forever.

Maybe take anti-anxiety meds. Try not to do so unless their is no other option.
Exercise a lot.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

FalCod said:


> You cheated. Not sexually, but you cheated when you went through her personal communications without her knowledge or consent and then lied to cover it up. After that, why would she trust you? Trust is very easy to destroy and very, very difficult to rebuild.
> 
> I think you have to accept the fact that you have blown up your marriage. You no longer have a certain path to recovering it.
> 
> I think that your best option now is to rebuild yourself. Become a better person. Learn to be trustworthy so that you can also learn to trust others. Put her needs ahead of yours. Accept that it means that you might lose her anyway.


No one has cheated on each other. I did invade her privacy and destroyed her trust in me. I agree with you that I need to rebuild and be trust worthy. Her needs will come first and I may well lose her.



turnera said:


> First, I assume you're seeing a therapist? If you have substantial problems, you need a professional's help to figure out WHAT to change, and how to do it. He/she will help you come up with a plan. Follow the professional's advice and do the homework he/she tells you to do. That's the only way to change yourself.


Not got a therapist yet, they are a bit scarce where I am but I'm speaking to a friend who is a Dr in London and she is helping point me in the right direction. It's one of my wifes oldest friends and she will want me sorted. 



red oak said:


> You probably should have handles it different.
> 
> However: Privacy from someone you are supposed to live a life with? Supposed to know everything about you? Privacy is for keeping things from others.
> 
> ...


She may well have been ashamed of it but it really wasn't nothing in the end. She knew I would over react and didn't tell me about it. She was right, I over reacted. 



sunsetmist said:


> I agree with @red oak. She may have reached her limit on your anger and other issues and privacy is an excuse.
> 
> You cannot communicate with each other unless you make changes. Really listen to her. Look her in the eye. Have angry responses and suspicion been your friend? Then let them go. When you drink you loosen your inhibitions--stop period. Don't let your or her resentment build until safe talk is impossible.
> 
> ...


I WON'T GIVE UP EASILY! I'm prepared to fight for her. A worry now is that when I am gone she is free to see other people. I trust that she won't do so soon, as she has said this. But I do worry someone will sweep her off her feet because she is an amazing person and incredibly beautiful. 

I'll stop drinking and do more to help with the frustrations for sure. I'll be leaving the marital home in a matter of weeks. Things are amicable right now and I agree that I should go in order to help the situation.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Alcohol addiction leads to mental health issues.
> Such as anxiety issues when you have not had a drink recently.
> Your body becomes a nervous wreck waiting for it's next alcohol fix.
> Ditto, being angry. You are hung over most of the time. People act poorly when they are ill.
> ...


I drink a beer most nights, sometimes two, sometimes one. At the weekend it will be more. So yes, I need to stop the drinking. I don't binge drink but do drink most nights. I agree with you!

I look her in the eye a lot and tell her why I did what I did. I know it was wrong and I've admitted a lot now. It's like a new realisation has occured.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

needtochange7 said:


> No one has cheated on each other. I did invade her privacy and destroyed her trust in me. I agree with you that I need to rebuild and be trust worthy. Her needs will come first and I may well lose her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She always could. Nothing is changed. It is up to her, never you. All you can do is the best you can. Remember that, or you will blow it up and lose all chances forever. Get on it and stay with it, no matter what happens. Never lose faith that you can be better. You may find you don't really want her, but someone more compatible. 

I'm am in no way telling you to give up on your chances with your present wife. Just giving you some advice. Take it or leave it. That's up to you and always was and will be.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> She always could. Nothing is changed. It is up to her, never you. All you can do is the best you can. Remember that, or you will blow it up and lose all chances forever. Get on it and stay with it, no matter what happens. Never lose faith that you can be better. You may find you don't really want her, but someone more compatible.
> 
> I'm am in no way telling you to give up on your chances with your present wife. Just giving you some advice. Take it or leave it. That's up to you and always was and will be.


That's good advice! She has said "well you could find someone too" and whilst that isn't my aim I guess it could happen. I don't want it too. I will be very focused on getting better and being a positive person in her life. I want her to fall in love with me again.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

needtochange7 said:


> That's good advice! She has said "well you could find someone too" and whilst that isn't my aim I guess it could happen. I don't want it too. I will be very focused on getting better and being a positive person in her life. *I want her to fall in love with me again.*


Then, be a positive person in *your* life, not hers. She will notice. 

You have to think about this... really hard. It goes hand in glove with my last bit of advice.

If she wants you in her life, she will let you know. I'm not saying to avoid her. Just stop trying to control anything, but your own life. You can eventually ask her on a date or something, but she is not obligated to do a thing.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

That is a mighty fine good point! If I made a positive impact in my life, and no doubt with the kids, then she will for sure notice this. I did tell her a few days ago that I wanted to get better and then hopefully date her to re-start things. She didn't seem put off by the idea to be fair.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, the first thing you need to do is stop putting your relationship ahead of your own needs. You will never address your issues if you are attempting to do so to save a relationship. You need to save yourself first. If the relationship is to last, it will. But it will never last as long as you put it first. IOW, work on yourself and the rest of your issues will resolve themselves naturally, including your relationship. So if you think you have management issues - fix them. If you think you have a drinking problem - fix it. Fix yourself first. Focus on yourself.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Thank you! Yeah I am understanding now that if I fix myself she will notice this and fingers crossed rekindle what we had.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Side note:

If things 'do not' work out as planned, take note of this, otherwise count your stars that it is not true.

.................................................................................


I hope you live up to your Avatar's name.
I hope she takes note.

.................................................................................

I hope she is not letting you down and 'away' slowly, kindly.
Her doing so, with prior deliberation.

It is too early to tell.
It does not seem so, yet.

...............................................................................

By asking you to leave, separating her from you, she may be trying to snap you back to reality....
Her reality.

This could be a form of extreme desperation

-or-

A form of extreme control.

...................................................

I hope she is is worthy and not controlling.
It could be a case of simple ILYBIANILWY. {I love you but I am not in love with you}.

She wants to show family and friends 'she tried'.

...................................................

I hope not. 
I hope she relents.

Hope only has value when Fate likes your smile.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

needtochange7 said:


> Thank you! Yeah I am understanding now that if I fix myself she will notice this and fingers crossed rekindle what we had.


If you 'really need fixing' and not need a total remake of your personality, good.

Two souls who are not compatible cannot fix who they really are.
Yes, one or both can stop doing simple things that irritate your partner.

But making a complete change to someone else more desirable to the unhappy partner?
No, that is not going to happen.

It is damn unreasonable to expect this to happen. 
And damn presumptuous.

One or both have to bend.

If one bends and the other does not....good luck with that down the road at mid-life.
Midlife brings blues, brings yearning, brings questioning about life, ones place in it.

It brings light to a failing relationship. 
Making one or both question the need for further cohabitation.

Uh, your wife has arrived at this point.
Take note of this.

Tis' a critical juncture you, no..she has arrived at.
Oh, yeah...




THRD-


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Side note:
> 
> If things ...
> 
> ...


This was a thought provoking read thank you. Funnily enough I just asked her now if she is trying to let me down gently. She couldn't answer. She kept saying that I need to go and change for me. I agree with this, she doesn't think I need to be a new person, but instead back to the old one. But she won't give any hints that she will consider taking me back in the future. *I asked her to let me know if she ever wants to consider dating and she was quick to answer yes, with a slight twitch in her mouth. I found that a bit alarming.

*


SunCMars said:


> If you 'really need fixing' and not need a total remake of your personality, good.
> 
> Two souls who are not compatible cannot fix who they really are.
> Yes, one or both can stop doing simple things that irritate your partner.
> ...


Thank you for your post! We are compatible when I am the old fun loving me who doesn't hurt it emotionally. No denying that. If a complete change was needed then she'd probably need someone else.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

needtochange7 said:


> Thank you! Yeah I am understanding now that if I fix myself she will notice this and fingers crossed rekindle what we had.


What you really need to understand is that IF you fix yourself she MAY notice it. Do not focus on yourself to save a relationship or for any other reason than to simply fix yourself. Otherwise you are doomed. The reality of it is that if she does notice, you may not care.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Ynot said:


> What you really need to understand is that IF you fix yourself she MAY notice it. Do not focus on yourself to save a relationship or for any other reason than to simply fix yourself. Otherwise you are doomed. The reality of it is that if she does notice, you may not care.


I've just been thinking something like this. I'm at the point where I think "well I'm going to fix myself and stop worrying about you. If you notice then great, fall back in love with me. If you don't then it is yours and our kids fault. Enjoy other people."


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

needtochange7 said:


> *I asked her to let me know if she ever wants to consider dating and she was quick to answer yes, with a slight twitch in her mouth. I found that a bit alarming.
> *


Her mouth, it twitched...

Did it twitch because the word [date, dating] triggered her imagination?

Does she want to date you?
Does she want to date other men?

Does she want to do both, getting love from an old and true love, you and now....some new love, some new lover.
Does she want to kiss old lips, yours', or kiss new ones?

Does she want to do both? 

By saying yes, she did not lie.
Lie...either way.

If true, she doing both, this makes you Plan B. 

She will experience a new man or many new men. 

If they do not pan out, if they bottom out and are not acceptable she may come back, back around to you.

Take my advice, do not ask her this.
Listen not to her words, watch her actions.

Keep tabs on her...quietly, silently.
If you blab this out, she will only become more secretive.


Be patient, be not an ill patient.


Sigh...



THRD-


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Thank you for a great response. It twitched when she answered the question that she should let me know if she ever wanted to start dating someone else. She looked like "oooh that's my plan, I've got someone on standby already!" With a twitch that I've always known she does when she is excited or being a bit naughty. 

I'm just gonna have to keep cool and sort myself out.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm thinking you might learn a bit from: Re: Unhealthy fights and how to keep going.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/423559-unhealthy-fights-how-keep-going.html


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I think your head is in completely the wrong place. You are obsessed with one thing only - getting her back. Even your stated goal of sorting out your problems is stated as a means to get her back. You don't me any sense that you value her as a person with her own wants and needs. 

Even worse, you mention your kids in a passing line - "If you don't then it is yours and our kids fault". That's just so wrong on so many levels. First, if you are separating from someone with whom you have kids (and I'm assuming that they are still children, which might not be the case), they need to be your primary concern. It's not their fault if their mother no longer wants to be with their father. 

Beyond the children issue, it sounds like you need to learn to care about other people for their sake, not based on how it impacts you. And you need to care about yourself not because it will help you win back your wife but because you need to be a healthy you. If the sole focus of your behavior is to get your wife to pick you again, you're heading down the wrong path.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

FalCod said:


> Even worse, you mention your kids in a passing line - "If you don't then it is yours and our kids fault". That's just so wrong on so many levels. First, if you are separating from someone with whom you have kids (and I'm assuming that they are still children, which might not be the case), they need to be your primary concern. It's not their fault if their mother no longer wants to be with their father.


I meant to say loss! Not fault, it's their loss. The kids will lost their father.



FalCod said:


> I think your head is in completely the wrong place. You are obsessed with one thing only - getting her back. Even your stated goal of sorting out your problems is stated as a means to get her back. You don't me any sense that you value her as a person with her own wants and needs.
> 
> Beyond the children issue, it sounds like you need to learn to care about other people for their sake, not based on how it impacts you. And you need to care about yourself not because it will help you win back your wife but because you need to be a healthy you. If the sole focus of your behavior is to get your wife to pick you again, you're heading down the wrong path.


I am wanting to learn to care about other people for their sake. And at the same time I am wanting to get her back. That is what am I asking advice for. I didn't say I am obsessed with getting her back, I will have a lot to focus on, I will have to rebuild my life. You don't know the full story and are passive dismissive about the chances of rekindling a marriage after separation in your post.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

needtochange7 said:


> I meant to say loss! Not fault, it's their loss. The kids will lost their father.
> 
> I agree with Falcod. It isn't even their loss. You cannot become the man you once were, because you have changed. So have they. You may feel you are deserving of their love but they may not (which I seriously doubt is the case, especially in regards to your kids. Rather than think, your kids will have lost their father, you should be thinking in terms of they will be gaining at least one happy parent. Your kids will always be your kids and if by chance your relationship eventually fails, you will become a BETTER father because your have become a BETTER person.
> 
> I am wanting to learn to care about other people for their sake. And at the same time I am wanting to get her back. That is what am I asking advice for. I didn't say I am obsessed with getting her back, I will have a lot to focus on, I will have to rebuild my life. You don't know the full story and are passive dismissive about the chances of rekindling a marriage after separation in your post.


Finally I don't think anyone is "passive dismissive" about the chance of rekindling your marriage, it is just that even now you seem to be solely focusing on change to get her back and not change to become a better you. Whether you admit this or not you are still obsessed with getting her back. It is the title of your thread, you restate it in every post and get defensive at the mere suggestion of it not happening. You cannot get her back unless you change. But you cannot change to get her back. You need to change to become a better you. Getting her back may or may not happen. If it does you may find you do not even want her back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We see lots of people like you, need, where you hear our message and go 'yeah! that's what I need to do - stop caring if I get her back!' But then, you keep circling back around to getting her back. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good goal. But it's the wrong goal. Look up codependency. Tons of books out there about it. It means you tie your future, needs, happiness on whether another person wants you. That is what's not healthy.

Until you get that aha! moment where you really DO understand you'll be fine with or without her, you'll keep spinning. And she'll keep distancing. As you now know, you want more what you can't have. By you going crazy trying to win her back, YOU look LESS appealing to her. Let her see you flourishing in your own life. That's what will make a difference.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

Actions speak louder than words. It is that simple. 

If you want to "fix" yourself, then take the steps you need to in order to do that. If you need help with anxiety, depression, jealousy, etc. find a good therapist. Same with the drinking. Until you face everything, and work on fixing it, don't talk to her about getting back together. You can beg and promise her that you will change until you are blue in the face, but until you take action, you are just wasting her time, and yours. 

The first step is to realize that YOU need help to find YOURSELF, and not just for her, but because YOU truly want to. If you are trying to change for her, then stop this whole charade now, and let each other go. The ONLY person you should EVER change for is yourself. If it wins her back, great! If not, then it wasn't meant to be. I guarantee that if you are doing this all for her, it won't work. Maybe it will temporarily, but not in the long term. She can be a motivating factor, but you have to be the true reason you want to change.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Getting back together after separation is not the norm. Sure, it works for a few. But for most, absence does not make the heart grow fonder (except maybe for someone else). So you work on you and let things happen as they will.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

needtochange7 said:


> No one has cheated on each other. I did invade her privacy and destroyed her trust in me. I agree with you that I need to rebuild and be trust worthy. Her needs will come first and I may well lose her.
> 
> 
> She may well have been ashamed of it but it really wasn't nothing in the end. *She knew I would over react and didn't tell me about it. She was right, I over reacted.
> *


 Just a thought, but maybe you wouldn't have overreacted if she had been open and told you about the information she was hiding from you. You are going to definitely overreact when you had to discover it, and you will also view said info in the worst possible light when it is being kept from you. BTDT. What she wants is secrecy, not privacy, and there should be no secrecy in a marriage.

As mentioned above separations are usually a one-way street to divorce. You can't improve on relations and communication when you aren't around each other. Separations are also often used for a cheating spouse to get out from under the watchful eye of a suspicious spouse. Not saying that is the case, but it would certainly describe the twitch when you asked her about dating someone else.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should work on yourself and get therapy. You should also drag your feet on moving out. If you do there is only about a one in ten shot you will get back together. Those are just the bare stats. 

What did you see that made you flip and then find it you were wrong. 

If my wife got mad about me looking at her phone and was that angry, she would be the one leaving and without the kids. Sounds like you are suffering from her over reaction. Download the free book NO MORE MR NICE GUY. 

Your posts seem to be adding up to more than you know.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> You should work on yourself and get therapy. You should also drag your feet on moving out. If you do there is only about a one in ten shot you will get back together. Those are just the bare stats.
> 
> What did you see that made you flip and then find it you were wrong.
> 
> ...


Everyone knows what is going on here. He just has not given enough information for anyone to call it. 

Not even me. However, if she guards her phone, and gets pissed that he looked at it. 

Yeah, something is going on...


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

FalCod said:


> You cheated. Not sexually, but you cheated when you went through her personal communications without her knowledge or consent and then lied to cover it up. After that, why would she trust you? Trust is very easy to destroy and very, very difficult to rebuild.
> 
> I think you have to accept the fact that you have blown up your marriage. You no longer have a certain path to recovering it.
> 
> I think that your best option now is to rebuild yourself. Become a better person. Learn to be trustworthy so that you can also learn to trust others. Put her needs ahead of yours. Accept that it means that you might lose her anyway.


Totally disagree. 

Why do spouses need private communication? This is always a red flag, *ALWAYS*!

And it is always a cheater that blows up and says "Thats it! We are breaking up because you looked on my phone!"

I don't see open communications as a trust issue. Just the opposite, secret communications is asking for EAs in the very least. No secrets among husband and wife, period.

Most infidelities happen when one spouse totally trusts the other. How many times have we heard, *"Never in a million years did I think my spouse would cheat on me. I trusted them totally!" Trust but verify!*


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@FalCod: this has to be lamest excuse ever. You are wrong. In a marriage there shouldn't be any need for privacy, especially when you suspect that something is amiss.
If I were to suspect something about my wife and I ask for her phone, if she refused, that's it. Marriage's over. 

Only weak, pathetic people that have no balls, think it's OK not to pry into your partner's phone because somehow it's a violation of their privacy. Screw that.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> @FalCod: this has to be lamest excuse ever. You are wrong. In a marriage there shouldn't be any need for privacy, especially when you suspect that something is amiss.
> If I were to suspect something about my wife and I ask for her phone, if she refused, that's it. Marriage's over.
> 
> Only weak, pathetic people that have no balls, think it's OK not to pry into your partner's phone because somehow it's a violation of their privacy. Screw that.


Uep


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@personof interest: no idea what "Uep" means. If you have something to say, say it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> @personof interest: no idea what "Uep" means. If you have something to say, say it.


Typo

Should have been Yep

😁😁


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

There is a good reason to keep e-mail and phone and text convos private: when the person snooping is not discrete and takes liberties they have no business taking. An example - I had e-mailed my sister-in-law pics of beds I was considering purchasing and asked her advice on which one she thought would look better in our bedroom. Her husband (my husband's brother) read my e-mail and deleted it before she got to see it. I wondered why she never responded. When they came down they saw the new bedroom and BIL commented that I picked the bed he liked. She was confused so I had to explain. After that he was locked out of her e-mail.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Anyone else suspect the OP may be getting manipulated?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

ButtPunch said:


> Anyone else suspect the OP may be getting manipulated?


Yeah, it is pretty much the consensus. I don't think he is up to actually figuring out if she is cheating or able to be irrefutable evidence. 

Think of it like this. If you are in a good relationship, and you are not cheating, do you care if someone looks at your phone? Yeah, some may, but most in a marriage don't. 

My GF knows my code, because I have to keep it locked for work, she has trouble remembering it. I am going to put her finger print in there. 

Point is I have nothing to hide. 

Early on she was curious, so I handed it to her. I warned her, there are several girls that want to get back with me, but you are welcome to read any of it. (I have a bit of a past)

She took it all really well. Thing is, I am in a relationship and I am in love. I am not cheating or am I going to. 

You can read whatever you want on my phone...

In OP's case, yeah, he is being played, we will see if he figures it out, ever...


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part. 

There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Why would be you the one leaving? You tell her to hit the road. Did you already consulted a lawyer? Be strong here man. Tell to **** herself and her invasion if privacy bull****.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Please don't leave the house. Contact a lawyer.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Do not leave Your house.! That will put you in a bad position. Go talk to an attorney now before you do anything.! At least you can find out what you’re up against what your rates are and attorney will tell you do not leave the house.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


This is NOT your fault. She chose to act like a single person and now blames you. You followed your gut feeling. You can find out more the same way you found this out. What is she saying about her behavior? Don't let her blame your anger issues for her behavior--she made a choice. You don't know how long this has been going on.

See a lawyer to protect your rights, then make decisions.


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## needtochange7 (Nov 10, 2018)

Yeah ok! Told her I'm not leaving the house, why on earth should I. Just caused an argument but I don't care anymore. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

When you hurt someone deeply, your focus should be on helping her heal and making amends not on how to get her back. Getting her back is all about you.

If you do all the things that you think you ought to in order to get her back and she doesn’t respond the way you intended, that is not on her. You are not entitled to her love.



needtochange7 said:


> Thank you! Yeah I am understanding now that if I fix myself she will notice this and fingers crossed rekindle what we had.


If your motivation to work on your personal issues is so you will get your wife back, your personal growth won’t last. We work on our personal issues because it is our personal responsibility to do so. Working on personal issues and growth should help us to relate to others in a healthy manner and that can cause relationships to grow, but not always; particularly when we have damaged those relationships beyond repair.



needtochange7 said:


> I've just been thinking something like this. I'm at the point where I think "well I'm going to fix myself and stop worrying about you. If you notice then great, fall back in love with me. If you don't then it is yours and our kids fault. Enjoy other people."


What on earth! This is dysfunctional thinking. If she doesn’t want you back after you have improved yourself that’s not her “fault.” That is her prerogative. And don’t put this off on your kids. It is your responsibility as a parent to improve your relationship with your kids not the other way around. 


needtochange7 said:


> I meant to say loss! Not fault, it's their loss. The kids will lost their father.


 Seriously?! Just no. You are their father. They should not lose you if you are parenting them properly.




needtochange7 said:


> I am wanting to learn to care about other people for their sake. And at the same time I am wanting to get her back. That is what am I asking advice for. I didn't say I am obsessed with getting her back, I will have a lot to focus on, I will have to rebuild my life. You don't know the full story and are passive dismissive about the chances of rekindling a marriage after separation in your post.


It shouldn't be about getting her back. It should be about building a healthy relationship whether she takes you back or not. The perspective you share here is extremely self-centered and entitled. You cannot have a healthy relationship with anyone if you are self-centered and entitled.

With the attitude that you have displayed in your posts here, I think it is unlikely that you will get your wife back and even less likely that you are going to make any progress in the personal growth area, because you don’t even recognize what the problem is to begin with. Problems cannot be solved when we identify the wrong issue to be the problem.

From what you have posted it appears that your problems are mostly related to the attitude that I just mentioned: self-centeredness and entitlement.

That being said, your wife has a set of issues all her own, but she’s not here. 


needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.


No point in arguing with her about any of this with her. She is obviously minimizing the situation and only telling you what she absolutely feels is necessary. It’s likely she’s been cheating on you for a while.

I recommend that you try to keep the peace and stay in the home working on resolving your personal issues and building a good relationship with your children. Do not bad mouth their mother to them. Focus on your relationship with them. Get to really know and love them.

She cannot force you out of the house unless things get violent. Do not fight with her. I understand that you are hurt and upset, but there is no point in trying to work through that with someone who is not interested in working it out. From here on out the best thing you can do is to work on keeping peace between the two of you, loving and parenting your children, and beginning a journey of self-discovery and growth which will be better for you and your children in the long run.

Despite the fact that you may not want your wife back at all now that she has obviously been cheating, the above comments still pertain to personal growth and interpersonal relationships. Yes, we have to consider ourselves first in terms of what our personal responsibility is, but that doesn’t mean we put ourselves ahead of the needs of others. Having love and empathy for others is imperative if we are to have happy, healthy relationships. It appears that neither you nor your wife act on this belief, which means you are teaching your children from a place of dysfunction. You can do something about that on your part, but you cannot make your wife do it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> When you hurt someone deeply, your focus should be on helping her heal and making amends not on how to get her back. Getting her back is all about you.
> 
> If you do all the things that you think you ought to in order to get her back and she doesn’t respond the way you intended, that is not on her. You are not entitled to her love.
> 
> ...


Posted before you read it all>


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How did you find out about the nude dancing?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There is more you need to know? Read the standard evidence thread linked too in the pos above mine. 

Stay strong and know this. She has been gaslighting you all along. Do the 180 and believe NOTHING that comes out of her mouth.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Posted before you read it all>


Haha I agree. I was reading and writing as I went. I got to the end and decided that the basic principles are still the same and his issues are still the same, so I posted it anyway. He still needs to stop being selfish, entitled with or without his wife. I was planning to write something about my take on her response to him going through his phone based on speculation, but changed that when I saw that she has indeed been cheating. She probably loves seeing him desperately striving for her attention, which will only feed her monster.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Her cheating is inexcusable. However, I suggest you still take this opportunity to learn from your mistakes in this marriage in regards especially to your anger issues. If you don't learn to get a grip, you will never be able to keep a good woman, there are few things worse than living with an angry man. I have been through it twice, and when I was done, I was DONE, no way in hell possible to get me to stay. 

That is what she should have done instead of betraying the marriage, she should have left.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> How did you find out about the nude dancing?





Chaparral said:


> There is more you need to know? Read the standard evidence thread linked too in the pos above mine.
> 
> Stay strong and know this. She has been gaslighting you all along. Do the 180 and believe NOTHING that comes out of her mouth.


Wow, I did not think it would happen that quickly, based on my last few posts. 

So just so you know, you really don't need to know more. She was partying, everybody got naked and at the VERY least she screwed somebody. 

I know you don't have a video of it, but you really don't need it. 

You may have issues, and you need to fix that for you, def not her. 

But from the very beginning, this whole thing sounded like a cheating wife that was gas lighting her husband.

And hey, guess what, it was...

File ASAP, work on yourself and move on...


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


1. *I hate being right* when it means heartbreak for a spouse.

2. I also don't understand when spouses let their Wives or Husbands go to drinking parties *without them*.

3. The first time my wife doesn't come home, *she doesn't have a home to come home to*. Or vice versa! Why is this so hard to understand?

4. Your wife decided to get naked with a bunch of people? And you don't get at least 50/50 custody? *Who's your lawyer?*

5. Since when do you automatically have to leave? *You wife becomes a stripper and you are forced out of your home?* She should be embarrassed to even be seen in public now!

6. *Expose* her shameful actions.

7. Be strong, be courageous, be decisive. *Your family is watching.*


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

@skerzoid, @Rob_1, @personofinterest

I guess I see things differently. 

You seem to have gotten the impression that I think spouses should hide things from each other or have some extraordinary privacy rights. My wife and I don't keep any significant secrets from each other. We share one password manager and have access to all of each other's personal accounts. Yet, we still expect a reasonable level of trust and privacy. Nobody wants to feel like someone is always watching over their shoulder and treating them with suspicion. 

There are times when I've explicitly asked for privacy. Years ago, I created an account that I used for shopping for her Christmas presents. It kind of ruins the surprise of Christmas when Amazon starts telling your spouse all of the things you've been looking at for her. I told her about the account and its purpose and trusted her not to look. The information was all stored in the password safe, so she could have looked at any time, but that would have ruined the surprise.

We've both worked on projects for each other that we've kept secret. I wrote a book for her detailing many of the things I love about her, things I've loved experiencing with her, and things I look forward to in our future together. She knew I was writing something in the book, but I asked her not to look at it until I was finished with it and I believe that she didn't. She has made things for me that she's kept secret. I know where she hides things, but I would never look.

If I suspected my wife of cheating, I wouldn't start by invading her privacy and lying about it if I got caught. I'd discuss my concerns with her. If I suspected that she had evidence of cheating on her phone or computer, I'd sit down with her and go through her e-mail, messages, or whatever together. Aside from keeping everything above board between us and not unnecessarily eroding trust, I'd learn more from her reactions than I would from whatever I found. Going behind each other's backs and snooping and then lying about it isn't showing balls. It's descending into the sort of trustless relationship that eventually spirals into a messy divorce.

I don't believe that spouses should snoop on each other. It erodes trust. They shouldn't maliciously keep secrets either, but the antidote to that has to be openess and not spying and lying. That's such a pathetic way to live in a relationship. I guess if it works for you, live that way. I've been ecstatically happily married for a very long time and I've never considered betraying my wife's trust. Perhaps that (and marrying someone with integrity) is why I'm still ecstatically happily married.

Oh, and I can't believe that either my wife or I would be stupid enough to leave evidence of cheating sitting around on our phones or computers.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Dual post


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

FalCod said:


> @skerzoid, @Rob_1, @personofinterest
> 
> I guess I see things differently.
> 
> ...


What a nice honorable relationship you have. I do also. 52 years (48 married). Never even had a hint of infidelity.

I believe in trust too. I also believe in human nature. She cheats, she's gone, and vice versa. And there is no guarantee that she wouldn't or that I wouldn't under certain circumstances. 

After my father died, my mother remarried. And after he died, she married again. She said she loved the 3rd one the most (But Mom! What about Dad! Nope, this one's the one). They met in their 70's. They both died in their 80's within months of each other, still in love. No one is immune from cupid's arrows. *No one.*

*Trust but verify.*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.


I knew something was up the moment I read she was upset that you "invaded her privacy".

That's a HUGE tell, and you can bet there's even more -- WAY more -- that you *don't* know.

To Hell with moving out -- SHE can move out.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FalCod said:


> @skerzoid, @Rob_1, @personofinterest
> 
> I guess I see things differently.
> 
> ...


In a perfect world, ^this^ is the perfect outlook.

In the real world, though, it's so naive it borders on... well, stupid.

To be clear, the 5th paragraph (the one beginning with "If I suspected my wife of cheating...") is where you started to lose me. Everything above that is great.

By the time the next paragraph started, I was gone.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@FalCod: man, really? how long have you been reading about infidelity and marital issues here? It seems that you have learned nothing. So naive.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> If I suspected my wife of cheating, I wouldn't start by invading her privacy and lying about it if I got caught. I'd discuss my concerns with her. If I suspected that she had evidence of cheating on her phone or computer, I'd sit down with her and go through her e-mail, messages, or whatever together.


I admit I chuckled big-time at this statement, myself.

Who sits down with a cheater, ASKS them if they're up to no good, and gets an *honest* response? :rofl:

Maybe one person in a million.

Secondly, how many posts over the years have we read where a suspected cheater actually handed their phone, email accounts and everything else over to their BS the *second* it was requested of them? Precious, precious FEW. Most BS's get the run-around, a bunch of excuses, a bunch of stone-walling, and for a some of them, the cheater storming out of the house in 'righteous indignation' at the unfair and unjust accusations being made against them. Of course, the cheater will USE that time out of the house to clean up all their electronics and accounts, delete what needs deleting, and hide what needs to be hid before coming back a couple hours later and suddenly being very agreeable to handing over everything the BS asked for a few hours before. It's so cliche it ain't even funny.

So...what have we learned? If you want to be lied to and have the wool pulled over your eyes, sit a suspected cheater down and _*ask*_ them if they're cheating.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


 @FalCod 
Care to comment on that horrible violation of privacy that equates to cheating now? SMDH
@needtochange7
Like Gus said, I think you already know this but you only have the tip of the iceberg. There is much more, guaranteed.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Duplicate


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@personofinterest
I owe you an apology. 

I misread your "UEP" post to be agreeing with Falcod that looking at the wife's phone was equivalent to cheating.

I see that wasn't the case and edited to correct that error.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Rubix Cubed and @personofinterest
Ha, ha!! I got the same reaction but still couldn't figure out what Uep meant, and it was just a typo 😳


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

FalCod said:


> @skerzoid, @Rob_1, @personofinterest
> 
> I guess I see things differently.
> 
> ...


 @FalCod, there's a major difference between keeping your Christmas presents secret from your loved one and keeping your naked assignations with other people secret from your loved one.

Your story, though a genuinely heartwarming one, is really irrevelvent to the case we are seeing in this thread. I wish it wasn't. But it is.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> @personofinterest
> I owe you an apology.
> 
> I misread your "UEP" post to be agreeing with Falcod that looking at the wife's phone was equivalent to cheating.
> ...


I am just now seeing this because I don't see the notifications on my phone view.

You are very kind to apologize. Thank you 

I can tend to go off and be reactionary. I am sorry about that.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

needtochange7 said:


> Thank you for a great response. It twitched when she answered the question that she should let me know if she ever wanted to start dating someone else. She looked like "oooh that's my plan, I've got someone on standby already!" With a twitch that I've always known she does when she is excited or being a bit naughty.
> 
> I'm just gonna have to keep cool and sort myself out.


I wish you would follow your name (Need to change). You must work on yourself and stop focussing on your wife, marriage, etc. Work on YOU, then everything else will fall into place. You are not very attractive now to your wife, she has probably 'carried' you for a long time, you are doing what you need to do. Take responsibility for your side of the road.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

needtochange7 said:


> Pretty much got it all figure out now. She wants her secrecy because she stripped naked with a few friends and other men, for fun. Lied about her whereabouts, who she was with, how late she was out. Then called me at 8 am saying she needed more sleep cos she is hungover. Turns out she called me drunk and drove home after a 3 hour nap. But then when I found this out she denied the naked part.
> 
> There is more but I haven't found out and don't know how I ever will now. I'm out. I find this out and I'm the one getting turfed out to find a new place to live. Typical dad set up, seeing the kids once a week. I invaded her privacy after a turbulent time in our marriage. And I lose it all for partially finding out her secrets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


You have 'figured it out' how? Do you have evidence of these naked romps with guys? Who told you? How did you find out? Have you kept the evidence?


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## habc (Aug 24, 2013)

Dude, Honestly I went through hell and back and its still not over. Sometimes its just best to get away. I made that mistake. Took me years when it could have been so much shorter. Kids thing is huge but as long as they are safe and try to just do a joint custody thing , read my story its on here somewhere and it is horrific . All done though, ive moved on !!! Do not try to force the issue. I dont know of one relationship that isnt messed up somehow, everyone has a dark side even if it looks on the outside. date and have fun, get over the she wants I want or dont want someone else. Who cares. people are not monogamous period. The sooner you relize that the better. seen it a thousand times


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Zombie thread


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