# My wife slept with other men "to see if she could"



## cole8

To be clear, we are separated. We have been going to marriage counseling and "dating". My wife didn't cheat on me (technically). She hasn't "had" another man since we started marriage counseling. 

I'm going to be blunt, with full likelihood of sounding like a ****. We had a ****ty sex life. We'd have sex once a month, if that. I always had to initiate. My wife laid there motionless and lifeless. She didn't enjoy it at all, nor did I. She would never do anything for me, except be a hole to ****.

After 4 months without so much as a touch we got into a fight in front of my friends. Everyone was drinking, someone complained about their sex life and I made a comment about my wife in front of her and 11 of my friends. That fight (and other buildup) led to us being separated for 6 months now. 4 months totally separated, 2 months in marriage counseling. 

3 weeks after we separated my wife went and ****ed a "friend" of mine. A guy who I'm not very close with but he is a friend. He's a player and frequently has multiple "girlfriends". Now any time he will be around I get to remember that he's ****ed my wife, when she wouldn't even **** me. I keep playing it over in my mind what they did, even though I don't know. "Seeing" my wife on top of him makes me want to puke. He gets the satisfaction of another "score" and having told everyone that he ****ed my wife. I didn't even hear it from her. I heard it from the **** that was in her. While I will never invite him over or out, he is friends with many of my friends and I likely will have to see him at some point. 

Here's the thing, my wife isn't just some bait and switch *****. She has ALWAYS been the same regarding sex. So yeah, my bad as I knew what I was marrying. We didn't even have sex until we had been together for 16 months. She took OVER A YEAR to have sex with me, yet went and ****ed another dude, that she had met twice. We haven't had sex since separating. She won't **** me but will **** 3 other men. Or maybe she had been ****ing others during or marriage. 

She always use to say that sex was "special", yet goes and ****s someone she KNOWS is a player and wants nothing more than sex. Goes and has two one night stands. "To see if she could". Once wasn't enough she had to keep "seeing if she could"? 

My wife was raped in her teens as a virgin. That's the "reason" we took so long to have sex and "why" our sex life sucked. Up until our separation I was the only person she had consensual sex with. Quite frankly I'm having a hard time believing that she'd have so much trouble having sex with her own husband, but can go **** 3 random men like it's nothing. 

We separated because she wouldn't have sex, then she turns around and has sex with other men. Nice. In a counselling session she basically blamed me for it. She said it was her choice but what I said to her in front of friends (including the one she ****ed), and how I acted "made" her want to do it. 

How the hell do you get over that and let it go? The marriage counselor is all about putting everything on the table, and starting fresh. It's not that ****ing simple. She still won't have sex with me "because she isn't ready" yet went and had a sex spree with strangers? How does that make sense? Maybe our marriage counsellor is a quack, I don't know. Either way I'm pissed AF over here. Maybe I'm being an irrational ****, and if so, please tell me. Or if I should be running for the hills, tell me that also. 

We are trying to stay together because our sex life was the only large issue in our marriage, all other problems seemed to stem from it. We have 3 kids together, and while I am not going to "stay for the kids" I am going to try harder for them. We separated because it was "easy". We were fighting non-stop and hated being around each other. I had the opportunity to do a 4 month business trip, and took it. During that time we were totally separated and free to do whatever we wanted. We wanted to take that time to see if we wanted to be separated permanently or not. We both want to try and be together again and put in the effort. Having a "friend" tell everyone that he ****ed my wife, spread that to me, then have my wife (in counseling) tell me she ****ed two other men is changing that.


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## arbitrator

*If sex with her is so bad, @cole8 ~ then why hang on to her? Any loving married husband deserves better than that!

And in my book, a "friend" who does that to another friends wife, married or separated, is certainly no "friend!"

And a wife who lets a "friend" do that with her is definitely not wife material!*


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## Robert22205

Her having sex with your friend pretty much pretty much made sure that you could (as a human being) never ever forget/forgive her. It also sounds like she did it to intentionally hurt you and blow up any chance of R. You have to make your own decision about living with someone that mean. 

With respect to the 'friend', don't hide his inappropriate behavior....a friend should have supported and encouraged your marriage if only for the sake of your kids. Announce to everyone that he stabbed you, your wife, & your kids in the back - which in turn makes sure you two could never reconcile. Let everyone know that he is nobodies friend and should be avoided!


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## sokillme

Guess she put a nail in it. Quit thinking your wife is the only path to happiness. Dump her, there is a big beautiful world out there. She withholds sex then has an affair, your wife sucks. Seriously you probably wouldn't wish her garbage on a total stranger, why would you want to stay marred to this cruel person. And I know this hurts to read but she probably just isn't that into you, doesn't mean someone else won't be. Alone is better trust me, and the others who are going to echo what I wrote.

Side note, this is why I could never be a marriage counselor because at the point she told that story I would be telling you you can do better and you should let the marriage die. 

Robert's right expose these *******s for who they are at the very least so people can protect themselves from them.

Seriously if you lie with Dogs you are going to get fleas. You need a better class of women.

Maybe you should get some IC to find out why you are willing to put up with such disrespect. 

[Unless you have cheated on her in the past] then this would make more sense.


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## cole8

To clarify, prior to my wife sleeping with him I used the term friend loosely. He had always been more of a "friend of a friend" who I saw a few times a year. He wasn't someone I'd personally invite out but he'd tag along with someone else occasionally. I think my wife had only met him twice. He isn't someone that I want to be around anymore, and I have made that known. My friends do know that he slept with my wife, it's not something he ever hid. No one agrees with that behavior. 

Our sex life was terrible, no denying that. The other parts of our marriage were good, before the frustration took over. She has said that she wants to work on her "sex issues" and that she will go to sex therapy to work on it. I don't really see how she needs "sex therapy" when she was fully able to spread her legs for three other men. I appreciate your opinions. My judgement may be foggy, hence wanting to reconcile.


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## I shouldnthave

I don't see anything to save here.

"Breaks" don't work. Couples work out problems together - if you are able and willing to walk away from your spouse. If your love is not strong enough, if your communication skills are not strong enough, if there isn't enough desire to stay together and work things through.... Then its done.

Breaks do nothing but prolong separation.

So basically sex always sucked, you two had an embarrassing blow out fight, separated, and she went off the deepens while "single".

Figure out how to coparent, and put this relationship to rest, it has run its course.


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## Marc878

Sounds like you're trying to make every excuse in the book for her but there aren't any.

Indecision is not your best friend and will keep you in this mess.


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## Taxman

She did it to spite you. Spite her, file divorce and start dating. No sex for you, then she bangs another? Let the divorce shock her ass, and let your friends know. Let everyone know. Let her deal with it. A client agreed to a temporary separation. His wife said she needed space to “find herself” Two weeks later he heard that she had slept with a coworker. Instead of confronting he made inquiries, made sure it was true. His wife carried on as if everything was good. Quietly, we moved all their assets. We prepared a file of evidence. And of course a divorce action was prepared. At one point she wanted to go for a date. On the day of the date the evidence was sent to her employers. Her and th AP we’re terminated for cause. She attempted to use a bank machine, she went inside the bank where she was informed all accounts were closed and an order was on file to repossess her credit cards. Finally he returned to her apartment to find her furniture gone and papers on the floor. Her husband ghosted her. There was a note with the divorce: Seems like you found yourself...at the end of xx’s ****. Have fun starting over.


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## I shouldnthave

Taxman said:


> . Finally he returned to her apartment to find her furniture gone and papers on the floor. Her husband ghosted her. There was a note with the divorce: Seems like you found yourself...at the end of xx’s ****. Have fun starting over.


Curious, in this case. Did the wife have no assets? Not entitled to any furniture, bank account balances, credit cards with her name on them? Sounds like she was employed, so where those things, not community property?

Just wondering how one spouse can seize and walk away with everything - without a court-ordered judgment. Sounds like he was able to seize everything before she was even legally served (leaving papers on the ground is not being served).

Never heard of anything panning out like this in real life, just on the internet.


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## chillymorn69

Put your walking boots on you will be glad you did in the long run.

Good luck.


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## cole8

Thank you for the opinions. Maybe I am trying to make excuses for her or trying to talk myself into staying. She could very well be trying to guilt trip me into staying. Based on her actions (which I don't trust) she doesn't expect me to go back to her but wants me to. I have a hard time trusting her actions and word when everything she has said and done in the past seems like a lie. 

To put it all out on the table, my wife thinks I cheated on her 10-11 years ago. I agree that the actions were wrong but I personally don't categorize it as cheating. It was early in our relationship, my wife lived quite far away and we were having a tough time. I invited a female friend over, we watched a movie while cuddling and she slept over. Honest to god, nothing else but regardless it was wrong because my wife wasn't okay with it. My wife and I hadn't been intimate at that point. It hurt her and it was hard on our relationship at that point. Prior to my wife, I had cheated in previous relationships (which she knew, I never hid it from her) so she didn't trust my word. That isn't something that she never brings up now, and it hasn't been mentioned in at least 6 years (probably more). I highly doubt it has any relation to our current situation. 

To be "fair", I saw another woman while we were totally separated. In my opinion it's a different situation because I wasn't the one withholding sex or completely disinterested and full of excuses. 

Throwing away my marriage and family isn't something that I take lightly. My wife may have already made that choice.


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## seadoug105

Your wife does not love you! That is clear! She may feel safe, familiar, and/or comfortable with you... but she does NOT love you.

Sex is a matter of control for her. She has used sex as a weapon with you. And when she was outed as the fridged biatch she is... she went nuclear on you and let the her inner ***** out... This is far worse than an affair, where she started got carried away over time, letting it happen... no she sought out people to give them freely what she wouldn't and won't give to you.... and you know she did this too hurt you, that's why she went to you circle of friends, for atleast one of her Fa-huck buddies..... 

Don't kid yourself.... what she did can not be fixed. You will never ever look at her or love her the same way again. She is a broken person that is trying to break you.

I am pretty damn sure you were no saint during your separation, but I doubt it was of the vindictive and spiteful nature of your wife's activities...

You have to ask yourself, is this how two people who love and are devoted each other, treat each other and their marriage? No, it's not!

You might as well file for divorce now, it will only save everyone all the pain heart ache and time. Because if you haven't realized it yet, your marriage is dead. And you will never love here the same again. And she will always use sex as tool/weapon of control, because it has worked your entire marriage.


Sorry for the Sha-Hitty thoughts.


Start a new!

Btw... if I were you I would have beat that guy within half an inch of his life, if I were you. Regardles of the consequences, you would be doing all your friends a favor, especially since all their wives now know where to go when they want a little side action. Or if like your wife they just want to rip out their husband heart and dance on it in front of them...


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## seadoug105

Additionally, if she could so willingly do this to you, then what makes you so sure she is not cheating now???


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## sokillme

cole8 said:


> Thank you for the opinions. Maybe I am trying to make excuses for her or trying to talk myself into staying. She could very well be trying to guilt trip me into staying. Based on her actions (which I don't trust) she doesn't expect me to go back to her but wants me to. I have a hard time trusting her actions and word when everything she has said and done in the past seems like a lie.
> 
> To put it all out on the table, my wife thinks I cheated on her 10-11 years ago. I agree that the actions were wrong but I personally don't categorize it as cheating. It was early in our relationship, my wife lived quite far away and we were having a tough time. I invited a female friend over, we watched a movie while cuddling and she slept over. Honest to god, nothing else but regardless it was wrong because my wife wasn't okay with it. My wife and I hadn't been intimate at that point. It hurt her and it was hard on our relationship at that point. Prior to my wife, I had cheated in previous relationships (which she knew, I never hid it from her) so she didn't trust my word. That isn't something that she never brings up now, and it hasn't been mentioned in at least 6 years (probably more). I highly doubt it has any relation to our current situation.
> 
> To be "fair", I saw another woman while we were totally separated. In my opinion it's a different situation because I wasn't the one withholding sex or completely disinterested and full of excuses.
> 
> Throwing away my marriage and family isn't something that I take lightly. My wife may have already made that choice.


Called it. 

Nether one of you is mature enough to be married. Marriage takes trust and sacrifice, it takes honesty of intentions. Both of you are past that point. Too much water under the bridge.

Be the best co-parents you can be. Right now you are only hurting your kids by continuing this farce.


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## cole8

I am open to most opinions but I’m going to disagree that I’m immature and that a marriage is more than I can handle. I have made mistakes, that is no secret. I know that choosing to separate was a mistake and we both should have agreed to go to counselling instead. My wife suggested it. By that point I had no interest in putting in effort. I am trying to put in an effort now to fix those mistakes, even though it's likely too late. It’s entirely possible that we shouldn’t be together, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be with someone else. 

What I have learned from marriage counselling about my wife’s thought processes: 

She thinks she is only good for penetration, and if she cannot do that (and do it well) then she is worthless. She doesn’t think she can “compare” to other women. She felt like crap not having sex with me, but felt worse when we did have sex because she knew it sucked for me. She chose to have sex with my “friend” because she knew him. She knew that he’d only want sex from her and that he’d expect it to be ****ty. She knew that if she let it happen he’d carry her through it. She found out I was interested in someone else before she slept with him (read my Facebook messages because I didn’t change my password). She didn’t think I’d ever want to be with her again, especially after “having” someone else inherently better than her. She felt like she lost everything and wanted to feel “in control” so she went out and had sex with strangers (…yeah, her words). 

Wether all that is true or not, or just a whole lot of bullcrap I don’t know. I don’t trust anything that she says anymore. Everything in our marriage feels like a lie. Even if true, it doesn’t make anything better. Just makes her sound like a crackhead. 

Someone asked how do I know she isn’t cheating now. I don’t. She says she isn’t, but she said a lot of things that have been since been proven otherwise. She could very well be cheating or cheated in the past. I am not able to let myself fully invest in her, which is probably why I’m here. It’s correct that I don’t look at her the same and I don’t know if I ever will be able to. She isn’t the same person. I didn't marry this version of her. 

I struggle with seeing the situation for what it really is. I know the ****ty situation I am in, but my wife is able to fog it and make me second guess. How does one get the mind games to stop and trust that they are making the right decision to divorce? Long term I may be happy with the decision to divorce, how do I be happy with that decision in the meantime? How do I feel like I did all that I could and made the right decision for myself and my kids? 

If she hadn’t gone out and ****ed 3 men, I feel like we’d have a better chance at working things out. Perhaps I’m being a hypocrite.


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## Lostinthought61

.cole please listen to what the pther posters are saying.


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## Spicy

So, you were separated, with an agreement that you could see other people. Which you both did.
Sounds like you found someone to hook up with first...she got wind of it, so she did the same. 

So....um...yeah...you guys did what you both agreed too, and now you are massively pissed because you don't like who she chose to bang. She probably isn't real keen on who you banged either.


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## cole8

Maybe I am trying to sell her to myself. I don’t think it’s about not having a backbone, I walked away the first time. Do people normally throw away marriages and families so quickly? 

It’s not who she ****ed. It’s that she ****ed anyone. Which yes sounds hypocritical, however seeing as she’d barely have sex with me it feels justified to be pissed about it. If she could have done that for me (had sex) I wouldn’t be sitting here right now. I am "massively pissed", she handed out the remedy to our problems to anyone but me.


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## Wolfman1968

Taxman said:


> She did it to spite you. Spite her, file divorce and start dating. No sex for you, then she bangs another? Let the divorce shock her ass, and let your friends know. Let everyone know. Let her deal with it. A client agreed to a temporary separation. His wife said she needed space to “find herself” Two weeks later he heard that she had slept with a coworker. Instead of confronting he made inquiries, made sure it was true. His wife carried on as if everything was good. Quietly, we moved all their assets. We prepared a file of evidence. And of course a divorce action was prepared. At one point she wanted to go for a date. On the day of the date the evidence was sent to her employers. Her and th AP we’re terminated for cause. She attempted to use a bank machine, she went inside the bank where she was informed all accounts were closed and an order was on file to repossess her credit cards. Finally he returned to her apartment to find her furniture gone and papers on the floor. Her husband ghosted her. There was a note with the divorce: Seems like you found yourself...at the end of xx’s ****. Have fun starting over.


Taxman, you can never leave TAM. No one else has your treasure trove of stories.


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## Wolfman1968

cole8 said:


> Maybe I am trying to sell her to myself. I don’t think it’s about not having a backbone, I walked away the first time. Do people normally throw away marriages and families so quickly?
> 
> It’s not who she ****ed. It’s that she ****ed anyone. Which yes sounds hypocritical, however seeing as she’d barely have sex with me it feels justified to be pissed about it. If she could have done that for me (had sex) I wouldn’t be sitting here right now. I am "massively pissed", she handed out the remedy to our problems to anyone but me.


I am 100% with you on this.

If I were in your situation, her actions would say to me in big neon letters, "YOU'RE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE WHAT I FREELY GIVE AWAY TO MULTIPLE OTHER GUYS".

There'd be no getting past this for me. You have to decide what you can live with, but I share your sense of outrage.


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## Wolfman1968

Spicy said:


> So, you were separated, with an agreement that you could see other people. Which you both did.
> Sounds like you found someone to hook up with first...she got wind of it, so she did the same.
> 
> So....um...yeah...you guys did what you both agreed too, and now you are massively pissed because you don't like who she chose to bang. She probably isn't real keen on who you banged either.


No, I don't buy your interpretation. In fact, I call BS on this viewpoint.

I think your interpretation would work if the reason for their separation was some other marital issue. But the MAIN (only?) for separation was her inability to become sexually intimate with her husband. Then she easily hooks up with three other guys, having more sex with outsiders in a couple of months that she would with her committed spouse in a year.

How can you be blind to that fundamental issue and instead try to paint him as some sort of Separation Sexual Hypocrite? Nothing can be further from the truth, in my viewpoint. It looks to me like you are shaming the victim. HE was the victim of her sexual withholding and then her subsequent "sexual hypocrisy" of her doing with others what she would not/could not do with him.

BECAUSE the sexual denial is so central to this whole separation and marital problem, you couldn't be more wrong with your comments, in my view.


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## MJJEAN

So, basically, your wife had a few ONS and wants you back because she realized a lot of guys will **** her, but none of them will want to keep her. Probably because she's a shyte lover and they are too smart to tie themselves to a lifetime of shyte sex.

You left. Best advice I can give you if you want a relationship that makes you happy on all levels is to stay gone.

For the love of God, don't entertain staying for the kids. Modeling a crappy marriage dooms them to thinking that a crap marriage is normal.


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## Wolfman1968

cole8 said:


> I struggle with seeing the situation for what it really is. I know the ****ty situation I am in, but my wife is able to fog it and make me second guess. How does one get the mind games to stop and trust that they are making the right decision to divorce? Long term I may be happy with the decision to divorce, how do I be happy with that decision in the meantime? How do I feel like I did all that I could and made the right decision for myself and my kids?


Cole,

You're not alone. It's human nature to be hesitant about major life-changing decisions. That doesn't make you weak or "fogged", it just means you are human. 

Remember the famous quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet:

"Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action."

There is no easier way to dismiss this kind of second-guessing today than there was in Shakespeare's time. 

I can only suggest that if your decision is made dispassionately, after great consideration, and after seeking counsel from others who also agree with your decision, possibly with their own similar stories, then you can at least feel confident that your decision is not a hasty one. You can never be sure about whether ANY decision is the right one until you see how it plays out; however, you CAN feel good that it was rightly arrived at. 

After that, you just keep repeating to yourself how you logically arrived at your decision and use that knowledge as a mantra to beat down any self-doubts born purely of fear or emotion.

I think the repeated assurances of the posters here may help buttress your confidence that the marriage cannot survive after her actions. Use those assurances to steel yourself against any self-doubts that may creep in.


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## Kamstel

Wow!!!


Do yourself a huge favor and prevent yourself from a great deal of hurt..... just end it with her now. Life is too short!!!!


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## BluesPower

Listen, I am not even sure what to day to you. 

The fact that you are even going to MC with her and THINKING about getting back together with her is the single stupidest thing that I have ever seen anyone write on this or any other board. 

Dude, you waited a year and a half to have sex with her? Who does that? Are you some sort of disfigured monster that women shun or something? 

I don't think so? Look, the fact that she was raped is horrible, but it is not your fault. 

And it is not your job in life to save her. Further, do you want to sentence yourself to a lifetime of no sex with this woman. 

What are you thinking? Is she your first GF ever or something. 

And to answer one of your questions, yes, people with any sense at all throw away a marriage like this as quickly as they can, only a fool would even consider staying with this woman. 

Add to that the fact that she decided to screw a bunch of guys that you know, so she could make you look like a chump, which in fact is what you are, is just the icing on the cake. 

Dude, divorce this woman and for the love of everything holy, MOVE ON and GROW UP...


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## ConanHub

Yuk. You must seriously hate yourself to keep playing with this creature from the sewer.


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## notmyrealname4

Your wife lost her virginity by being raped.

That is why she sees herself as a hole. That is why she can't fully participate in sex.

Being used and discarded by as many guys as will have her; well, that recreates the worthless feeling that she has been carrying since she lost her virginity as a teenager by being raped.

It was AWFUL of you to tell a group of friends about her sexual inadequacies. She already knows that she feels repressed sexually. She only feels like a receptacle, a "cumdumpster" if you will.

I *am* sorry that you have been denied enthusiasm and passion in your sex life. That is a deprivation that is very hard to live with as an adult human being.

And it was reckless and faithless for her to cheat on you. But you cheated on her. And like I said, her initial sexual experience seems to have wired her to see sex and worthlessness going hand in hand.

I know she needs massive counseling. But she's not here, you are. She sounds like she has not healed from being sexually assaulted as a teenage virgin. Then in addition to her personal counseling, you guys would have to continue therapy together; maybe sex therapy.

Her having sex with a common acquaintance means that you would have to move if you stay married. That is unbearable. No normal person could handle constantly coming into social contact with the person their spouse cheated with.

But is does seem like your marriage is over. There's just so much dysfunction on her part. Understandable sexual frustration on yours. And now the whole circle of friends knows your most private business. Ugh.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best possible outcome. Make sure those children are okay, none of this is their fault.


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## Spicy

Wolfman1968 said:


> No, I don't buy your interpretation. In fact, I call BS on this viewpoint.
> 
> I think your interpretation would work if the reason for their separation was some other marital issue. But the MAIN (only?) for separation was her inability to become sexually intimate with her husband. Then she easily hooks up with three other guys, having more sex with outsiders in a couple of months that she would with her committed spouse in a year.
> 
> How can you be blind to that fundamental issue and instead try to paint him as some sort of Separation Sexual Hypocrite? Nothing can be further from the truth, in my viewpoint. It looks to me like you are shaming the victim. HE was the victim of her sexual withholding and then her subsequent "sexual hypocrisy" of her doing with others what she would not/could not do with him.
> 
> BECAUSE the sexual denial is so central to this whole separation and marital problem, you couldn't be more wrong with your comments, in my view.


It's all good...no one needs to "buy my interpretation." I boiled it down to the basic facts as presented by the OP. Regardless of the reason for the separation, they both agreed it was ok to see other people during their time apart (never a good idea). So was that supposed to be a hall pass for him only? Maybe he is a lousy lover, and that is why she never enjoyed sex. Perhaps since she had never been with anyone else, this was her first chance in her life to see if it could be better, if she could enjoy it. We have no idea, we only have his side of this story. I just don't understand why they would set up the guidelines that it was fine for them to each have sex with others while separated, and now he is mad that they did exactly that? If you don't want that to happen, you don't pre-approve it.

I 100% agree that lack of sex is the problem that needs to be fixed. I think this marriage is doomed unless they get into sex therapy. It also sounds like she is the main cause of the problem, and that the OP would do well to divorce and find someone with a sex drive similar to his own.


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## Taxman

If this is her attitude toward sex and marriage, then she does not qualify to be a wife. She is a hole, I suggest that you treat her as such. As I am wont, I have a really close client/buddy. His second wife (don't ask) was tbh a screaming bi+ch. She also had an inflated sense of justice. So a minor infraction from him would bring horrible retribution from her. Well, where does this lead? But of course, he did not wash the floor to her satisfaction, and so what does she do? She ****s the married guy across the hall. My buddy is absolutely shattered. So, we tell him that his only real solution is a divorce. He goes ballistic. First, he tells the neigbor's wife, who marches herself across the hall and proceeds to beat my buddy's wife to a pulp. I am not joking, she could not go to work for a week, the facial bruises were fairly spectacular (who does not like a good shiner). She, is in damage control mode and initiates an intensive HB period. That was her worst mistake. After a week, she says to him, lying in bed after sex, how she feels so much closer in their marriage. He tells her the truth. He says really? It is sex to me, and I don't fuçk you like my wife, I fuçk you like a hooker. This isn't love, this is release. You are totally disposeable. She had a fit. He says the marriage was over the second you crossed that hallway. I stuck around to see if there was even a remote chance. You are nothing to me, and I am leaving by the end of the week. And he did. I have not heard from her for nearly 20 years. She did end up living with a guy for a bit, but her toxicity drove him away as well. My buddy is now on his third and hopefully final wife.


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## farsidejunky

One of the really lousy things about being with a victim of CSA (or other sexual assault) is that they can be promiscuous or wild when a relationship is new, and stop sex when things get serious. This is especially true when the perpetrator was a family member or was well known.

In their subconscious mind, their relationship partner becomes someone who can no longer be trusted.

Keep this in mind as you weigh your decisions.

As for your wife...I would be letting her go. Let someone else deal with that madness.


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## Steve2.0

This goes back to the old saying "nice guys finish last"

She always made you wait, and as the nice guy, you did. You waited to have sex because of her past issues and she turned sex into a weapon/negotiation. Once you start down this path its difficult to get out.

There's countless stories about husbands not having sex, and requiring a magic combination of effort to get sex... yet that same wife will drop her panties in a washroom for some other dude in a moments notice.


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## Thor

farsidejunky said:


> One of the really lousy things about being with a victim of CSA (or other sexual assault) is that they can be promiscuous or wild when a relationship is new, and stop sex when things get serious. This is especially true when the perpetrator was a family member or was well known.
> 
> In their subconscious mind, their relationship partner becomes someone who can no longer be trusted.
> 
> Keep this in mind as you weigh your decisions.
> 
> As for your wife...I would be letting her go. Let someone else deal with that madness.


QFT.

When rape or CSA come into play, all the normal rules go out the window. @cole8 had you not mentioned your wife being raped as a teen then all the other replies on this thread would be 100% gold. However, the rape changes everything.

What doesn't change is that your wife is who she is. Her behavior with you is who she is, and her behavior with the other men is who she is. When something doesn't make sense it is because you don't have all the information. You're feeling confused and hurt that she has been so sex avoidant with you, yet she easily goes and has sex with 3 other men. It doesn't seem consistent. It doesn't add up.

But rape/CSA is the missing piece of the puzzle for you. Admittedly I am much more familiar with CSA effects than rape, but there can be a lot of similarities and I think your situation is one of those. Farsidejunky is correct imho.

Here's how I see it. Your wife was traumatized in a way you cannot really comprehend. She was looking for a safe man to marry, and found you. You waited all those months to have sex with her, so she felt you were sexually a non-threat. However, she was still not able to relax and enjoy sex with you. It was still a traumatic experience for her. Note that since you were the initiator of sex, she was not in control of the situation 100%. That was scary to her, and she simply hunkered down and survived through the sex with you.

Now look at this from your post:


> She chose to have sex with my “friend” because she knew him. She knew that he’d only want sex from her and that he’d expect it to be ****ty. She knew that if she let it happen he’d carry her through it.


See how she was able to control everything about this? Who she had sex with, when she had sex, and the sex itself. That last sentence of yours is most informative.

So what does this mean? It means she is deeply damaged. Yeah that just infuriated a lot of victims here, sorry. But if it were a smashed leg in a car crash that led to a permanent limp it wouldn't be insulting, and neither is it insulting to say the CSA/rape victim is damaged by their trauma. Good trauma therapy can help a lot, just like good surgery can help that limp a lot. Failing to see a psychologist is exactly like choosing not to consult with a surgeon about the poorly healed leg injury. 

The thing is that her behavior with you and with other men is easily consistent with a traumatic event. This is the missing piece of the puzzle for you.

You are the Secondary Survivor, whereas she is the Survivor. Being a Secondary is a really crummy place to be, especially if she is not willing or able to seek and participate in meaningful trauma therapy. She will not change. If you get back together with her it is going to be more of the same. Infrequent bad sex for you. And she may find sex outside the marriage to be fun or empowering.

My bottom line is the same as FSJ's. If she isn't engaged in meaningful trauma therapy and really working hard at it, I would walk away. Being harmed was not her choice, but not seeking adequate psychological treatment *is *her choice.


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## manfromlamancha

Cole you absolutely seem to know the score and are correct. Not sure if you are asking anything here but this much is true:

Whatever, her reasons (which do seem suspect, btw), she has treated you like sh!t. She has withheld sex from you and freely given it to others. Actually, if they were all strangers then that would have been better than ****ing someone you both know (especially if he is a boastful player). That just increases the level of disrespect. I agree with those that say she does not love or respect you and it really is time to just let her go.

I do not think that you have been weak or are not marriage material. You have been more than fair to her and she has been disrespectful and dishonest.

It's not a matter of whether people give up on marriage this easily - its more to do with recognizing when someone is just wrong for you (and she is). If your counsellor was honest, he or she would have told you this.

She needs to learn that you will not accept this behaviour and I would say beware of your counsellor wanting to rug sweep all of this. I personally would have dropped her by now.

Best of luck.


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## michzz

cole8 said:


> <<snip>>
> If she hadn’t gone out and ****ed 3 men, I feel like we’d have a better chance at working things out. Perhaps I’m being a hypocrite.


No hypocrite at all. You do not have to tolerate BS such as what she is asking you to swallow.

Move on. 

Once you do you will realize how much better your life can be without her.

If you do not? You will have a world of hurt ahead of you.


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## Haiku

Taxman said:


> She did it to spite you. Spite her, file divorce and start dating. No sex for you, then she bangs another? Let the divorce shock her ass, and let your friends know. Let everyone know. Let her deal with it. A client agreed to a temporary separation. His wife said she needed space to “find herself” Two weeks later he heard that she had slept with a coworker. Instead of confronting he made inquiries, made sure it was true. His wife carried on as if everything was good. Quietly, we moved all their assets. We prepared a file of evidence. And of course a divorce action was prepared. At one point she wanted to go for a date. On the day of the date the evidence was sent to her employers. Her and th AP we’re terminated for cause. She attempted to use a bank machine, she went inside the bank where she was informed all accounts were closed and an order was on file to repossess her credit cards. Finally he returned to her apartment to find her furniture gone and papers on the floor. Her husband ghosted her. There was a note with the divorce: Seems like you found yourself...at the end of xx’s ****. Have fun starting over.


 🤔 Was this in the U.S.; which state?


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## Graywolf2

cole8 said:


> Which yes sounds hypocritical, however seeing as she’d barely have sex with me it feels justified to be pissed about it. If she could have done that for me (had sex) I wouldn’t be sitting here right now. I am "massively pissed", she handed out the remedy to our problems to anyone but me.


I don't blame you for being "massively pissed." I would go crazy hoping to have sex when I do all the boring husband things and the OM got it for free. 

I would get a divorce but if you must stay with her I would accept the fact that I might never have sex with her again. That would make it less frustrating and take away her power. You’re probably acting like a puppy that wants a treat. 

I would think of her as a nanny you hired for the kids or as your sister. I would also consider telling her that since she’s dating other people you will feel free to do the same. That might get her to stop taking you for granted. 



cole8 said:


> We separated because she wouldn't have sex, We haven't had sex since separating. 3 weeks after we separated my wife went and ****ed a "friend" of mine.


You seem to have made it clear to her that she can do anything and you will always supply her with stability and companionship. When you separated was it made clear that both of you could have sex with other people? All her OM have had sex with her more recently than you have.


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## 3Xnocharm

Do yourself the biggest favor ever and let her go.


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## TheCuriousWife

I agree with Spicy. You are being a hypocrite. 

The farther the story goes... She read messages that you were already out perusing around. She was hurt, betrayed, upset, etc. So she went out and had a revenge affair to get back at you and hurt you. 

I agree with other posters. You are both too immature for marriage. Separation is just asking for trouble. Especially when you are both decide to sleep around without thinking about how it affects the other. You even said SHE was the one who asked for marriage counseling instead of separation. You kind of set yourself up for failure.

How is it okay for you to "see another woman" just because you like sex more than your wife?

You should have realized your wife had issues long long ago and insisted on sex and marriage counseling. She obviously had unresolved trauma from past experiences. Instead of working through these issues like a married couple you left her alone and went and found a "better" woman. What your wife did was crappy. But you are equally at fault here.


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## MovingForward

cole8 said:


> 3 weeks after we separated my wife went and ****ed a "friend" of mine. A guy who I'm not very close with but he is a friend. He's a player and frequently has multiple "girlfriends". Now any time he will be around I get to remember that he's ****ed my wife, when she wouldn't even **** me. I keep playing it over in my mind what they did, even though I don't know. "Seeing" my wife on top of him makes me want to puke. He gets the satisfaction of another "score" and having told everyone that he ****ed my wife. I didn't even hear it from her. I heard it from the **** that was in her. While I will never invite him over or out, he is friends with many of my friends and I likely will have to see him at some point.
> 
> Here's the thing, my wife isn't just some bait and switch *****. She has ALWAYS been the same regarding sex. So yeah, my bad as I knew what I was marrying. We didn't even have sex until we had been together for 16 months. She took OVER A YEAR to have sex with me, yet went and ****ed another dude, that she had met twice. We haven't had sex since separating. She won't **** me but will **** 3 other men. Or maybe she had been ****ing others during or marriage.
> 
> She always use to say that sex was "special", yet goes and ****s someone she KNOWS is a player and wants nothing more than sex. Goes and has two one night stands. "To see if she could". Once wasn't enough she had to keep "seeing if she could"?


Sorry to hear this, it sounds very very painful, I am not sure if i could ever get over this, I would feel like she thought less of me than the other guys so I would be out as my confidence gone.

I would try and move on and not entertain idea of even trying to reconcile since she doesn't seem to care about your feelings at all.


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## MovingForward

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am 100% with you on this.
> 
> If I were in your situation, her actions would say to me in big neon letters, "YOU'RE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE WHAT I FREELY GIVE AWAY TO MULTIPLE OTHER GUYS".


This is what I meant to say


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## Holdingontoit

Listen to @Thor. He has it nailed.


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## Tron

What everyone has said about CSA is pretty much true. And as much as I sympathize with your W and am sorry she had to deal with that as a teen, the solution for you is really quite simple.

$hitcan her.


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## NJ2

notmyrealname4 said:


> Your wife lost her virginity by being raped.
> 
> That is why she sees herself as a hole. That is why she can't fully participate in sex.
> 
> Being used and discarded by as many guys as will have her; well, that recreates the worthless feeling that she has been carrying since she lost her virginity as a teenager by being raped.
> 
> It was AWFUL of you to tell a group of friends about her sexual inadequacies. She already knows that she feels repressed sexually. She only feels like a receptacle, a "cumdumpster" if you will.
> 
> I *am* sorry that you have been denied enthusiasm and passion in your sex life. That is a deprivation that is very hard to live with as an adult human being.
> 
> And it was reckless and faithless for her to cheat on you. But you cheated on her. And like I said, her initial sexual experience seems to have wired her to see sex and worthlessness going hand in hand.
> 
> I know she needs massive counseling. But she's not here, you are. She sounds like she has not healed from being sexually assaulted as a teenage virgin. Then in addition to her personal counseling, you guys would have to continue therapy together; maybe sex therapy.
> 
> Her having sex with a common acquaintance means that you would have to move if you stay married. That is unbearable. No normal person could handle constantly coming into social contact with the person their spouse cheated with.
> 
> But is does seem like your marriage is over. There's just so much dysfunction on her part. Understandable sexual frustration on yours. And now the whole circle of friends knows your most private business. Ugh.
> 
> Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best possible outcome. Make sure those children are okay, none of this is their fault.


OP- read the above and read it again as many times as it takes to develop some empathy for your wife. To be raped as a young girl killed her soul. It made her feel used and abused and worthless. The interior dialogue that goes with abuse plays quietly in her head-all the time. She feels worthless, useless, dirty- a **** and all the other names you have called her. Sex for her is a reenactment of the abuse and a confirmation of those words. You felt she was just a hole to use as an outlet. 

You announce to all your friends how worthless she is sexually....and after separating you hook up with someone else....and she finds out- so now her self esteem is circling the toilet -actually it was circling the toilet before that - at this point its flushed. So what is she to do? She did the same as you. She tried to see if she was worthless to all men in bed or was it just her husband? I'm sure you wanted to see if you could please someone else in bed since you couldnt please your wife.

She is not over it. It is a part of her. Thats why your sex life sucked. Of course it did. She would need IC to get over this and you both would need MC and sex therapy to make the marriage work. Is it worth it? I dont know if you have a deep love for her that would allow you to get over your ego. 

Yes she had sex while you were separated with an understanding that you were BOTH free to do as you pleased. I doubt that you added "but not with anyone I know", and "it has to be an equal number of times and people." If you had had sex with 3 women instead of 1 (how many times did you have sex with her?) would you think of yourself as a dirty man ***** who can't be forgiven? She is willing to work on herself and the marriage- I assume shes willing to forgive you for humiliating her in front of your friends as well as for going after a piece as soon as you could. 

You seem to be assuming that the sex she had with these guys was passionate crazy monkey sex. I doubt it was any different than it was with you. Same thoughts being played in her head.

I feel for you. Dont get me wrong- until I came on TAM I had no idea how important a good sex life was to men. I had no idea how being rejected sexually made them feel. I lacked empathy. I get it now. If you and your wife are to R you will need to understand what each others needs are- Read "His needs, Her needs". Get off your high horse and see what you contributed to the downfall of the marriage. 

Sorry if this is a bit harsh on you. Im trying to give you another relevant viewpoint. If you want to make it work you will need to see both sides of the coin.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## BruceBanner

Sounds like she made you pay full price for the full course meal but gave him a discount.


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## ConanHub

I am going to call a little bull **** on the rape excuse for her absolutely disgusting behavior.

To deny her husband sex to the point of them separating and then to go out and **** 3 men, one a friend, is simply rotten behavior.

He should have just divorced her and not gone for a separation so bad on him for that but her behavior is inexcusable and intentionally hateful.

CSA and torture survivor for years speaking here. It does mess with you but not to the point that you get to behave like a backstabbing scum towards the ones you claim to love.


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## Tatsuhiko

I'm sorry for what she's been through, but she needed to figure out a way to move beyond it for your sake. Instead, she didn't give a rat's ass and was willing to give something to strangers that she could never even attempt to give to you. Put her in the rear view mirror and enjoy the rest of your life. Maybe if she gets some therapy she'll make a worthy partner for you or someone else.


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## GusPolinski

I realize I’m a few months late here, but let’s summarize...

You’ve got a prudish wife that (for whatever reasons) won’t have sex with you but clearly doesn’t have any problems with banging other dudes.

And yet you — somehow — have 3 kids with her.

Do yourself a huge favor and get 1) a divorce and 2) 3 paternity tests.


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## jlg07

@cole8, any updates?


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## MattMatt

Rape can really mess with someone's psychological make up.


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## 269370

Taxman said:


> She did it to spite you. Spite her, file divorce and start dating. No sex for you, then she bangs another? Let the divorce shock her ass, and let your friends know. Let everyone know. Let her deal with it. A client agreed to a temporary separation. His wife said she needed space to “find herself” Two weeks later he heard that she had slept with a coworker. Instead of confronting he made inquiries, made sure it was true. His wife carried on as if everything was good. Quietly, we moved all their assets. We prepared a file of evidence. And of course a divorce action was prepared. At one point she wanted to go for a date. On the day of the date the evidence was sent to her employers. Her and th AP we’re terminated for cause. She attempted to use a bank machine, she went inside the bank where she was informed all accounts were closed and an order was on file to repossess her credit cards. Finally he returned to her apartment to find her furniture gone and papers on the floor. Her husband ghosted her. There was a note with the divorce: Seems like you found yourself...at the end of xx’s ****. Have fun starting over.


I would have been funny if he actually made a mistake and she was faithful after all....

I don't think it is legal to move assets just before divorce or after. What kind of a 'taxman' are you?  (need a batman holding a vagina clamp meme but don't have time to make one right now)


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## 269370

I shouldnthave said:


> Curious, in this case. Did the wife have no assets? Not entitled to any furniture, bank account balances, credit cards with her name on them? Sounds like she was employed, so where those things, not community property?
> 
> Just wondering how one spouse can seize and walk away with everything - without a court-ordered judgment. Sounds like he was able to seize everything before she was even legally served (leaving papers on the ground is not being served).
> 
> Never heard of anything panning out like this in real life, just on the internet.


You can't. It's easy to prove what happened here and get all the assets back through a court order. But good story though.
You could maybe move some assets offshore or put them in other people's names but it has to be done years in advance and you have a bunch of other risks with that which are not worth it. When you find out your wife is cheating, the best (and only) thing you can do is to also write her a cheque for half your assets as a 'thank you'.


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## 269370

farsidejunky said:


> One of the really lousy things about being with a victim of CSA (or other sexual assault) is that they can be promiscuous or wild when a relationship is new, and stop sex when things get serious. This is especially true when the perpetrator was a family member or was well known.


Why is that more true for CSA survivors than 'regular' women (or men in fact)? Aren't there plenty of examples where people just get bored or loose trust in their partner and stop having or bothering about sex and then have NRE with affair-partners or new partners? Can't quite work out the relevance of CSA. 

I think I can see why having 'forced' or dominant sex _may_ help someone overcome a hangup. (The physical stimulation may perhaps override the brain's resistance/reluctance to it). But plenty of people seem to have hangups about sex though.


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## 269370

cole8 said:


> Thank you for the opinions. Maybe I am trying to make excuses for her or trying to talk myself into staying. She could very well be trying to guilt trip me into staying. Based on her actions (which I don't trust) she doesn't expect me to go back to her but wants me to. I have a hard time trusting her actions and word when everything she has said and done in the past seems like a lie.
> 
> To put it all out on the table, my wife thinks I cheated on her 10-11 years ago. I agree that the actions were wrong but I personally don't categorize it as cheating. It was early in our relationship, my wife lived quite far away and we were having a tough time. I invited a female friend over, we watched a movie while cuddling and she slept over. Honest to god, nothing else but regardless it was wrong because my wife wasn't okay with it. My wife and I hadn't been intimate at that point. It hurt her and it was hard on our relationship at that point. Prior to my wife, I had cheated in previous relationships (which she knew, I never hid it from her) so she didn't trust my word. That isn't something that she never brings up now, and it hasn't been mentioned in at least 6 years (probably more). I highly doubt it has any relation to our current situation.
> 
> To be "fair", I saw another woman while we were totally separated. In my opinion it's a different situation because I wasn't the one withholding sex or completely disinterested and full of excuses.
> 
> Throwing away my marriage and family isn't something that I take lightly. My wife may have already made that choice.


Did you actually sleep with women while in relationship with your wife or not? It wasn't clear. If her trust was broken with you AND she was assaulted sexually in some way, it's not a good combination of circumstances and probably a reason why she felt reluctant to trust you enough to have sex with you (for women, trust is no. 1 factor to good sex life). It doesn't mean it was your fault, I am just trying to understand the background. But I think people are right: too much damage has been done and you will drive yourself nuts with mind movies. The only remedy is to find a way to separate and your suffering will stop (or lessen substantially) once you fall in love with someone else. Which you can and will do eventually if you let yourself.


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## 269370

Taxman said:


> If this is her attitude toward sex and marriage, then she does not qualify to be a wife. She is a hole, I suggest that you treat her as such. As I am wont, I have a really close client/buddy. His second wife (don't ask) was tbh a screaming bi+ch. She also had an inflated sense of justice. So a minor infraction from him would bring horrible retribution from her. Well, where does this lead? But of course, he did not wash the floor to her satisfaction, and so what does she do? She ****s the married guy across the hall. My buddy is absolutely shattered. So, we tell him that his only real solution is a divorce. He goes ballistic. First, he tells the neigbor's wife, who marches herself across the hall and proceeds to beat my buddy's wife to a pulp. I am not joking, she could not go to work for a week, the facial bruises were fairly spectacular (who does not like a good shiner). She, is in damage control mode and initiates an intensive HB period. That was her worst mistake. After a week, she says to him, lying in bed after sex, how she feels so much closer in their marriage. He tells her the truth. He says really? It is sex to me, and I don't fuçk you like my wife, I fuçk you like a hooker. This isn't love, this is release. You are totally disposeable. She had a fit. He says the marriage was over the second you crossed that hallway. I stuck around to see if there was even a remote chance. You are nothing to me, and I am leaving by the end of the week. And he did. I have not heard from her for nearly 20 years. She did end up living with a guy for a bit, but her toxicity drove him away as well. My buddy is now on his third and hopefully final wife.


Do you make up these stories on the go or read them somewhere else?  
You do know even if those buddies tell them to you as you write, they are all highly filtered, right?


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## 269370

ConanHub said:


> I am going to call a little bull **** on the rape excuse for her absolutely disgusting behavior.


It depends what happened. So many things are called rape nowadays, this is not goint to make me popular but one *has* to be able to differentiate i think...

To deny her husband sex to the point of them separating and then to go out and **** 3 men, one a friend, is simply rotten behavior.

He should have just divorced her and not gone for a separation so bad on him for that but her behavior is inexcusable and intentionally hateful.



ConanHub said:


> CSA and torture survivor for years speaking here. It does mess with you but not to the point that you get to behave like a backstabbing scum towards the ones you claim to love.


Whaaat? By man or woman? When? How?


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## Laurentium

> One of the really lousy things about being with a victim of CSA (or other sexual assault) is that they can be promiscuous or wild when a relationship is new, and stop sex when things get serious.





InMyPrime said:


> Why is that more true for CSA survivors than 'regular' women (or men in fact)?


I don't know why for sure, and it's hotly debated, but it appears to be the case. One hypothesis, in the field, is that it's "OK" for them to have disconnected sex, but deepening emotional engagement in a relationship suddenly flips the "off" switch. 

See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3142010/


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## Yeswecan

cole8 said:


> To clarify, prior to my wife sleeping with him I used the term friend loosely. He had always been more of a "friend of a friend" who I saw a few times a year. He wasn't someone I'd personally invite out but he'd tag along with someone else occasionally. I think my wife had only met him twice. He isn't someone that I want to be around anymore, and I have made that known. My friends do know that he slept with my wife, it's not something he ever hid. No one agrees with that behavior.
> 
> Our sex life was terrible, no denying that. The other parts of our marriage were good, before the frustration took over. She has said that she wants to work on her "sex issues" and that she will go to sex therapy to work on it. I don't really see how she needs "sex therapy" when she was fully able to spread her legs for three other men. I appreciate your opinions. My judgement may be foggy, hence wanting to reconcile.


Working on sex issues does not entail sex with multiple OM. Personally, I would keep the ties cut and file. Your W issues will plague you for years to come.


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## x598

cole8 said:


> To clarify, prior to my wife sleeping with him I used the term friend loosely. He had always been more of a "friend of a friend" who I saw a few times a year. He wasn't someone I'd personally invite out but he'd tag along with someone else occasionally. I think my wife had only met him twice. He isn't someone that I want to be around anymore, and I have made that known. My friends do know that he slept with my wife, it's not something he ever hid. No one agrees with that behavior.
> 
> Our sex life was terrible, no denying that. The other parts of our marriage were good, before the frustration took over. She has said that she wants to work on her "sex issues" and that she will go to sex therapy to work on it. I don't really see how she needs "sex therapy" when she was fully able to spread her legs for three other men. I appreciate your opinions. My judgement may be foggy, hence wanting to reconcile.


she wants to work on her "sex issues"? hate to say it but she has other even BIGGER issues to work on and I wouldn't recommend sitting around for the next decade for her to sort it out.


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## Wolfman1968

Hey, gang, OP hasn't been back on for a year. 
He posted in June 2018, and stopped posting that same month.


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## farsidejunky

Because when the relationship is new, there is not enough emotional intimacy for them to feel close...yet.

Then when the relationship reaches that level, they have a natural mistrust of people who are close enough to them to be able to inflict that sort of emotional damage. This leads to them distancing themselves as a subconscious protective measure.

In other words, subconsciously the spouse cannot be trusted because they are 'too close'.



InMyPrime said:


> Why is that more true for CSA survivors than 'regular' women (or men in fact)? Aren't there plenty of examples where people just get bored or loose trust in their partner and stop having or bothering about sex and then have NRE with affair-partners or new partners? Can't quite work out the relevance of CSA.
> 
> I think I can see why having 'forced' or dominant sex _may_ help someone overcome a hangup. (The physical stimulation may perhaps override the brain's resistance/reluctance to it). But plenty of people seem to have hangups about sex though.


----------

