# This is a clear signal, right?



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

So my partner and I have been together 20-odd years (we are mid 40s). We have 3 kids and a mortgage.

Neither of us are that great at the relationship business but we have kept plodding on. There is a long list of problems (including poor communication on both our parts).

We've mentioned separation a couple of times in the past. Recently I was finally able to admit to myself that I am really, truly unhappy. Like I said, there is a long list of problems but these are an aside. From my perspective, we lack a basic connection. You know; that feeling where you look at someone and know that they are on your side. I have been feeling increasingly as though I would be better off on my own than struggling on with this relationship.

Anyway, things have been ... not great lately. I figured that it's time we maybe went to counselling to figure out what the relationship means to us both. As I said, we are not great communicators. So yesterday while we were both at work I sent him a text saying I was worried about the state of our relationship and asking if we could take some time to talk about it. He said yes.

I was thinking that we would talk in our bedroom after the kids have gone off to their rooms for the night, usually around 8.30. I'm usually in our room reading or whatever while he is downstairs watching TV and surfing the net in the family room. You can't have a private conversation in the family room because the kids can all hear.

Anyway, instead of coming and talking to me, he sat there watching Top Gear. It was a repeat episode. 

I don't feel upset about this; in fact I had a bit of a wry chuckle, because one of the things I have always had issues with in our relationship is that he doesn't prioritise me. Everything else comes first.

And his action last night seems like a clear message to me that I not Portland enough to warrant his time or attention.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Shrugz said:


> Anyway, instead of coming and talking to me, he sat there watching Top Gear. It was a repeat episode.
> 
> I don't feel upset about this; in fact I had a bit of a wry chuckle, because one of the things I have always had issues with in our relationship is that he doesn't prioritise me. Everything else comes first.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't have to, but you'll need to be a little vulnerable and say "I'd like to talk now, in the bedroom" if you really want to have a chance of repairing the marriage. 

Somebody has to go first.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So you asked him to talk, and he said yes, then you waited for HIM to come to YOU??

What's wrong with that picture?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So what is he doing to make you unhappy? Is he mistreating you? Using you? Or are you just bored with him and want some excitement?
Just asking
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> So you asked him to talk, and he said yes, then you waited for HIM to come to YOU??
> 
> What's wrong with that picture?


You're absolutely right. I think I was hoping for a sign from him that it was important enough to take the initiative since I'd opened the floor.

Stupid, I know.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> So you asked him to talk, and he said yes, then you waited for HIM to come to YOU??
> 
> What's wrong with that picture?


Ouch!


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> So what is he doing to make you unhappy? Is he mistreating you? Using you? Or are you just bored with him and want some excitement?
> Just asking
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After 20 years, there is a lot of water under the bridge. There have been times when we have both behaved badly, but this is more a situation of two people who have grown so far apart I'm not sure it's possible to grow back together again. There's no infidelity or abuse or any of the Big Things. We just need to discuss what this relationship means.



Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

Nope. I can tell you he avoided talking to you because he thought nothing was good was going to come from it. He probably assumed you were going to point out his faults, blame him for a bunch of stuff, tell him he needs to do more, and in the end he'd actually not get anything positive out of it.
NO, I don't think that's what you were actually intending to do or would have done, it's what he think might have happened.
In other words, he saw no benefit to switching off the TV and having some kind of annoying long conversation about your marriage when nothing good was going to come from it except maybe proceeding with a separation, which is not a good outcome.

Is this a sign that he doesn't want to improve things? Maybe. But only because he probably feels that you can't. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you, desire you, or want you. Maybe he does and feels he can't have have you or reach you. Or maybe he's sick of you but if this is the case it's because it's all of the bad and none of the good? 

What I think you need to do in this situation is take charge and don't worry about his lack of enthusiasm. My wife will avoid heart-to-hearts. I basically have to force her to talk about our marriage. I don't like to do it. I personally wish she would come to me sometimes and express that she's thinking or feeling, but she can't for whatever reason. When I push her, she insists that she has undying love for me and that her communication issues have nothing to do with it.
By the way, she thinks she's a good communicator. I'm not exactly great but I'm better at it.

So if both of you are bad at it, then one of you needs to step up.

Find that time to talk to him, go to him, tell him to turn off the TV, or talk after the show is over. Do you not have a DVR?

Next, start the conversation with as much positive things as you can. If it's an appropriate time, bring him a beer or glass of wine, sit down, look at him, and say "let's talk for a few minutes." Start with "I want this to be a positive conversation." Tell him that you want things to be better, maybe tell him how you feel (love him, desire him, or whatever is positive) then ask him how he feels. Avoid negativity. Avoid blame. The more positive you are, the more likely he is to be positive and not shut down.

How is your sex life? Many husbands and wives start to feel resentful of spouses that don't want to have sex. They feel like they're taken for granted. You're just roommates with all of the negative aspects of a relationship and none of the positives. If you express that you'd like to find a way to improve your sex life, he may response positively to that. Frame the conversation with that carrot. That means that you want to prioritize more time together or date. I won't go as far as put requirements on giving sex but if spending time doing [something] means that you'll have sex, he's going to be wanting to do it. As a result you'll be spending time doing [something] together, having more sex, and you're more likely going to start to connect more and the rest of the relationship will improve. It's hard to view your spouse in a negative light if they want to be intimate.
That being said, you should also try to find a THING that you both like doing together that helps you bond. Top it off with intimacy (cuddling, kissing, or sex afterward.)

What I'm getting at is that you need to approach the talk with something to work TOWARD. Not hash out your problems. If it's just to talk about why you're not intimate and why you guys seem to be not connecting, then that's all negative and there's really nothing to work on.

Maybe you do have sex and it's not very good or it's devoid of emotion? If that's the case I feel I'm not going to be able to give good advice.

Otherwise get in his face. Hit record, turn off the TV. Give him a drink. Smile. Say "let's talk" and start with how to be more intimate and improve the sex life. From there you can work on the rest.

No I don't think him avoiding talking is a clear sight that he's done. It MAY mean that. All it means is that he isn't interested in the negative outcome of the conversation so he's avoiding it.

This all assumes either of you want to salvage this.
Yes, a counselor is a good way to go if you want to fix it. I think my conversation is a lot cheaper and great place to start. Follow it up with counseling, but at least you'll go to counseling having something to work toward.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Shrugz said:


> So my partner and I have been together 20-odd years (we are mid 40s). We have 3 kids and a mortgage.
> 
> Neither of us are that great at the relationship business but we have kept plodding on. There is a long list of problems (including poor communication on both our parts).
> 
> ...


Pick one:

1. He forgot.
2. He did not desire to talk about the relationship. Who wants to admit they are wrong? 
3. He is downplaying your perceptions.



> I don't feel upset about this; infact I had a bit of a wry chuckle, because one of the things I have always had issues with in our relationship is that he doesn't prioritise me. Everything else comes first.
> 
> And his action last night seems like a clear message to me that I not Portland enough to warrant his time or attention.


You are in a dangerous mindset, and one that I consult with individuals about, incessantly. You have very clear definitions of what a relationship is and is not and what a husband is and is not. Conditions are dangerous. In a certain context, they can be like a trip wire, with a mine connected.

Relationships don't work in the way "we" tend to think they do. They require some work and, at times, one of the partners needs to man the rudder.

Yes, your relationship is damaged. Appropriate action can solve this problem, but it seems like you are the one that might need to man the rudder. You might think that it isn't fair or something like that, but it is what it is. People in love lose their way; they make mistakes. If you love him, see past this and endure a little to break through his resistance. It is worth it, if you wish for a more intimate connection.


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

JamesTKirk said:


> Nope. I can tell you he avoided talking to you because he thought nothing was good was going to come from it. He probably assumed you were going to point out his faults, blame him for a bunch of stuff, tell him he needs to do more, and in the end he'd actually not get anything positive out of it.
> NO, I don't think that's what you were actually intending to do or would have done, it's what he think might have happened.
> In other words, he saw no benefit to switching off the TV and having some kind of annoying long conversation about your marriage when nothing good was going to come from it except maybe proceeding with a separation, which is not a good outcome.
> 
> ...


Thanks James. This is really helpful and I will address a bit later - am at work at the moment. Thanks also for not automatically assuming the worst of me 

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

Shrugz said:


> Thanks James. This is really helpful and I will address a bit later - am at work at the moment. Thanks also for not automatically assuming the worst of me
> 
> Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


Just due to lack of info, I'm running with some assumptions so please don't take that the wrong way. Clarify what I said and maybe I'll have something else to add.
The biggest questions are:
1) How do you feel about him? Do you love him and want it to get better?
2) What is the sex life like now? How would you like that to change?
3) Again, his actions don't mean he's not interested in keeping you. It just means he's avoiding talking about it. You might have to just overcome that, step up, and take the lead on it.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

He's avoiding you and probably because he isn't interested in talking, dreads the out-come and feels you are going to be blaming towards him. Perhaps even he doesn't like conflict so for him it is easier for him to avoid you by zoning out in his interests. This doesn't mean you guys shouldn't talk, communication is important. You might both need to place guidelines about how you speak to one another. Ask him if there is a time that the to of you can talk. Don't blame. When saying how you feel about a situation be careful to say things like, "when you do _______ it makes me feel like ______."


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

JamesTKirk said:


> Just due to lack of info, I'm running with some assumptions so please don't take that the wrong way. Clarify what I said and maybe I'll have something else to add.
> The biggest questions are:
> 1) How do you feel about him? Do you love him and want it to get better?
> 2) What is the sex life like now? How would you like that to change?
> 3) Again, his actions don't mean he's not interested in keeping you. It just means he's avoiding talking about it. You might have to just overcome that, step up, and take the lead on it.


1. Honestly, this is a hard question to answer. I think we are so far away from each other at the moment, emotionally speaking, that it's really hard to tell. 

2. The sex life is non-existent at the moment and has been for the past few months. In the past couple of years sex has generally been when I initiated it and I was finding that I would have to kind of "book time" with him away from the tv/pc. I am the first to admit that I am not the cute young thing I was when I was 22. However, I'm still an attractive woman and I enjoy sex, so his lack of interest is perplexing. Maybe it's a phase he'll grow out of, but for the moment I have stopped initiating as well.

3. In the past 20 years I have *always* been the one to put in the work to fix things in the relationship. I don't want to have to be the boss of him, so to speak; I want to be equal partners. But you're right and I think I will just have to suck it up and get to work on fixing. Just for once I would like some kind of sign that he cared enough to do it himself, you know? Especially when he knows that things aren't right. He's a very smart guy.

Anyway.

My update for the evening is that after ruminating on the situation and the feedback I've received from people I don't even know who took the time to respond, I've got a half-baked plan in mind. 

This is not the first time we've come to a crisis point and I think we've lost our sense of connection over the years. I was thinking to myself a few weeks back that we really needed to get back to basics; pretty much start from the beginning and rediscover what it was that we liked about each other in the first place. As in, actually start from dating again.

This afternoon I was thinking about some of the comments here, and how he might be dreading the thought of a serious conversation that is likely to have a negative outcome, and I don't want him to feel like I'm going to give him a bollocking or anything. So with the "back to basics" thing in mind, I decided to give him a quick call at work, just to say "Hi." This is something we never, ever do any more. We used to once upon a time, but then he was always so busy at work and in meetings, so I felt bad about interrupting him, and just texted him instead. But I've even stopped doing that in recent months because he's not very good at responding.

So today I rang him and we had a quick chat for a couple of minutes about nothing in particular and it was nice. And at the end he reminded me that I need to go and get my spare tyre replaced because I got a flat a couple of weeks ago which was completely ruined. Which is his way of showing he cares, so that was nice


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Pick one:
> 
> You are in a dangerous mindset, and one that I consult with individuals about, incessantly. You have very clear definitions of what a relationship is and is not and what a husband is and is not. Conditions are dangerous. In a certain context, they can be like a trip wire, with a mine connected.
> 
> ...


Hi Relationship Teacher, and thanks for your response. 

Please don't think I was secretly gloating at my partner's actions or that I was trying to be all "Ha! I told you so!"

We have a long history which has been dotted with all sorts of problems, large and small. We've survived some Big Issues. We've discussed and worked through stuff before. He is a very independent person and I think he sometimes kind of "forgets" that he is in a relationship. I don't mean that in a malicious way; just that he is not always mindful that he has a responsibility to me as a partner. He hasn't always had my back, if you know what I mean, and has let me fight some big battles on my own without emotional support. He has spent large sums of money without consulting me. He will make commitments to his hobbies/pursuits without checking if it's okay with me (for example, arranging to travel away for a couple of weeks without first consulting me). And he does other little things - that can be quite hurtful - that make it seem that I am not on his priority list. And yes, we've discussed these things but they keep happening. I don't think he is trying to hurt me, I think he just doesn't think.

So, when we both know we need to talk and his reaction is to zone out watching reruns on tv, it feels like evidence of it again.

As I said above, I'm taking baby steps. I want us first to get back into a state where we are at least feeling comfortable and companionable again. Then we can worry about the big stuff!


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Shrugz said:


> Hi Relationship Teacher, and thanks for your response.
> 
> Please don't think I was secretly gloating at my partner's actions or that I was trying to be all "Ha! I told you so!"
> 
> We have a long history which has been dotted with all sorts of problems, large and small. We've survived some Big Issues. We've discussed and worked through stuff before. He is a very independent person and I think he sometimes kind of "forgets" that he is in a relationship. I don't mean that in a malicious way; just that he is not always mindful that he has a responsibility to me as a partner.


This is the norm, which makes it an interesting challenge.




> He hasn't always had my back, if you know what I mean, and has let me fight some big battles on my own without emotional support. He has spent large sums of money without consulting me. He will make commitments to his hobbies/pursuits without checking if it's okay with me (for example, arranging to travel away for a couple of weeks without first consulting me). And he does other little things - that can be quite hurtful - that make it seem that I am not on his priority list. And yes, we've discussed these things but they keep happening. I don't think he is trying to hurt me, I think he just doesn't think.


You just have to be a bit careful. If you push too hard (psychological reactance) he backs away angrily. If you are too soft, nothing changes.


> So, when we both know we need to talk and his reaction is to zone out watching reruns on tv, it feels like evidence of it again.
> 
> As I said above, I'm taking baby steps. I want us first to get back into a state where we are at least feeling comfortable and companionable again. Then we can worry about the big stuff!


The thing is that this is the big stuff. Not being able to talk is the reason why ALL of the relationship strife happens. We delude ourselves into thinking we are breaking up over finances, etc, but it is the inability to communicate.

First, I recommend you invest a bit into yourself, so that you can handle a negative emotional reaction from him. You will likely have to push a little past his comfort zone, and he will respond negatively. This is the norm. However, it is predictable.

Beyond that, you just have to stand for the relationship. It will take some tears, but it is worth it for the intimacy of the relationship.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Shrugz said:


> So my partner and I have been together 20-odd years (we are mid 40s). We have 3 kids and a mortgage.
> 
> Neither of us are that great at the relationship business but we have kept plodding on. There is a long list of problems (including poor communication on both our parts).
> 
> ...


*So what's necessarily wrong with shutting off the TV show that he is viewing and then sitting down next to him and quietly and maturely exposing your unhappiness with his modus operandi?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *So what's necessarily wrong with shutting off the TV show that he is viewing and then sitting down next to him and quietly and maturely exposing your unhappiness with his modus operandi?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd be pissed if someone just shut off the TV because they wanted to talk. What if it's a mystery and you decided to just shut it off before the big reveal? I rarely watch TV. If I do. it's because I made a conscious decision to do so. Even for those that use the TV as just background noise, just reaching over and turning it off is rude and could be a bad way to start a conversation.

Just say, "I'd like to talk. Is now okay or would you rather finish the show?".


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Txting him the dreaded "We need to talk"....which is the modern day or adult version of "Wait till your father comes home"....was an invitation for him to turn the TV on and hope it all goes away. Really, your marriage has been chronically bad b/c of a lack of communication and initiative on both your parts, why would this burst of clarity cut thru all that?

Tonight when he comes home and the kids are in their rooms, go out on the patio or porch and gently revisit it. Keep it simple, you're unhappy and want to go to therapy with him, get him to agree, and stop.

And when you're in the therapist's office, don't wait for him to talk, there's no test here, you both failed already. This is the "Extra credit" for trying to pass.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you ever read His Needs Her Needs? You're a perfect candidate for it and it will help a lot.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Shrugz said:


> So my partner and I have been together 20-odd years (we are mid 40s). We have 3 kids and a mortgage.
> 
> Neither of us are that great at the relationship business but we have kept plodding on. There is a long list of problems (including poor communication on both our parts).
> 
> ...


This is why you have problems in your marriage. You don't understand your husband and you assume negative things about his motivations. He probably kept watching tv because he didn't want to have another painful conversation where you air your complaints about him. Men hate hearing the term we need to talk. 90% of the time it is about something we've done. Did you ask him to come talk and he just ignored you? If you didn't then he probably hoped you just forgot about it.


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> This is why you have problems in your marriage. You don't understand your husband and you assume negative things about his motivations. He probably kept watching tv because he didn't want to have another painful conversation where you air your complaints about him. Men hate hearing the term we need to talk. 90% of the time it is about something we've done. Did you ask him to come talk and he just ignored you? If you didn't then he probably hoped you just forgot about it.


Hi there. I don't really understand how me wishing to discuss our relationship and how my partner and I need to work on it *together* translates to me wanting to list a bunch of complaints about him. I think you are assuming an awful lot about me. Either that or you believe that as the man of the house he has the right to do whatever the hell he pleases and if that means dismissing or ignoring his partner when she's in pain, so be it.

As I said in my post above, after some serious thought yesterday I'm adopting a different approach. Contrary to popular belief, unhappy wives are not all nagging harridans who deserve what they get, and I am taking the time to defuse the high tension atmosphere we are currently in so we are *both* in a better place to discuss the situation.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

turnera2 said:


> Have you ever read His Needs Her Needs? You're a perfect candidate for it and it will help a lot.


Thanks. I have considered getting that book before so will get myself a copy 

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

This sounds like a healthy perspective. Going back to basics and dating him rather than hasd out problems, just live the life you want and lead by example. The hard part is that you know he won't respond in-kind, at least not immediately. I know you want him to show some initiative. Really, I think one of us in a relationship is usually doomed to be the fixer and that's the way it is. The other incapable or uninterested for a variety of reasons. My wife is more likely to go cry herself to sleep if she thinks we have a problem rather than confront me and work on it. I'm the opposite. I'm often trying to proactively work on making our relationship better and keep the flame alive. 

If anything is going to work, all of those little things that you're doing are. My wife and I share little things during the day sometimes just about general stuff. Sometimes it's something funny or cool we saw. It feels good that she experiences something and just wants to share it with me. I almost feel a little bummed when I don't hear from her all day. I know it's because she was ridiculously busy, but I like to know she thinks of me once in a while. She says she doesn't want to bother me at work, but I always encourage her to try and I'll let her know if I'm too busy.
So you contacting him once in a while "just because" does let him know you're thinking about him. He has to notice that.

My wife has my work calendar on her phone (I shared it with her.) In fact, we share all of our calendars and that's how we communicate upcoming events, appointments, parties, etc. She can see on my calendar when I have a meeting and knows to call me before or after.

Show by example, and just maybe he'll notice. At least do it for a while then when you ask him for more attention he can see that you've been stepping up yourself.

Going back to sex.
You said you always initiate it. If you haven't initiated it in a while then he may think you don't want it (otherwise you would.) I know that sounds messed up, but my wife was the same way. She never initiated so I thought she didn't want to, therefore I stopped initiating. After a while I asked her why we weren't having sex and she said it was because I never I never asked for it.
Needless to say, we had some understanding to work on. I told her I needed some interest from her. She reminded me that she's never been the aggressor (but she used to imitate or seduce me at least once in a while) and simply said "If you want to have sex, then you have to initiate," and if I wait for her, then we probably won't have it nearly as often as I like. She assured me it wasn't because she didn't want to... that's just how she is. Her sex drive nearly disappeared about 3 years ago (probably hormonal) and along with it all indication that she wanted sex with the rare occasion. I assumed she lost her attraction to me, didn't want me, or something else was going on (like maybe another man.)

Nope, I just had to get over it and understand that this is the way it is now. Swallow my pride, get over it, and just initiate. Also, she doesn't respond well to spontaneity. It works much better when I plan sex.
It's very simple. In the morning I'll tell her that "I miss her, and want her" and pretty much ask if she's up for it tonight. I might also ask "do you want to have a ****tail later?" or if she's physically sore or in pain, I'll ask if she want's a "full massage." Sometimes just in the afternoon I'll text her "****tails later?" or "Margaritas tonight" or "Wine tonight" or the 3 emojis, A ****tail, a winky face, and a Kisss with heart face. She'll respond with equally disgustingly cute emojis as confirmation. I don't ever ask her "sex?" later, I use the word "want to play?" In case you're wondering, she prefers to have a drink before having sex. It helps her relax, let go, not be uptight, and she enjoys it more. So alcohol is usually (not always) the best approach with her.
Now these are all playful subtle code phrases that she well understands the intent, so you'd have to work up to your own thing. For now start with the direct approach "Make a drink later and play maybe?"
She never says no unless it's her period or there's something else physically wrong or some awful schedule burden. She's usually plenty enthusiastic if it has been at least 3 days.

I usually have to schedule with her so that she has the mindset that we'll be doing that, otherwise she'll busy herself to no end and I can't get her attention to have an evening. Occasionally we'll just be hanging out, I'll rub her shoulders and back, and one thing leads to another, but that's less often.

Don't underestimate the power of sexy. You're a woman and you have a very powerful tool. Your body. Most men have trouble resisting seduction. Put on something you know he likes (short skirt or something) or maybe a nighty that he likes. My wife knows some of my weaknesses. Just do that, rub his shoulders while he's watching TV, and perhaps he gets the clue.

Hopefully these are some tips you can work off.
1) You may just have to schedule your sex dates from now on. I know I pretty much do.
2) You may have to initiate for the foreseeable future. And I think it will be helpful to start doing so.
3) Since you stopped he may think you don't want it.
4) I don't know what's up with his lack of interest. Eventually ask him directly. For now let it go. He may just have a low drive, so be it. Surely ask him if he's attracted to you and wants you, he should say yes.

By the way, I give my wife occasional compliments about being attracted to her. It sets the seeds of desire for later on. It lets her know that I'm thinking of her and lusting for her. I have a thing that when she's changing in the morning I say "this is my favorite part of the day." I know that works more for men to women but if you can find a way to throw in something about him being attractive, smelling good, or whatever, then throw it out there once in a while.

I have no doubt you're very attractive. At 45 I know I'm more attracted to women my age than I ever thought I would be (when i was younger.) Most men I know are still very attracted to their wives.

So I realize this is all about sex. I really think that just step 1 is, like you said, getting back to basics and just dating him. Bring back the intimacy and sex. I think the lack of it really does make the relationship go stale. Kind of force yourself to do it for a while, and frequently. See how it goes. Then have a talk with him about giving you more attention and finding more common interests. You'll have demonstrated by example and he'll hopefully be approach relationship rebuilding with a positive attitude.


----------



## melmargera78 (Oct 18, 2015)

How old are you're kids?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Shrugz (Jun 27, 2016)

melmargera78 said:


> How old are you're kids?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


16, 13 and 9

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## melmargera78 (Oct 18, 2015)

Wait until your 9 yr old goes to college and then divorce. Until then, keep it cordial. Play nice.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

melmargera78 said:


> Wait until your 9 yr old goes to college and then divorce. Until then, keep it cordial. Play nice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I agree. Eff your happiness and love of life. Just put up a fake show for your kids, so they can see how to do it when they are old enough and are miserable in their lives.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Shrugz said:


> Hi there. I don't really understand how me wishing to discuss our relationship and how my partner and I need to work on it *together* translates to me wanting to list a bunch of complaints about him. I think you are assuming an awful lot about me. Either that or you believe that as the man of the house he has the right to do whatever the hell he pleases and if that means dismissing or ignoring his partner when she's in pain, so be it.


Shrugz, the poster was telling you what it looks like from the man's side. This is EXTREMELY common - for the husband to hear 'we need to talk' and groan and dread the conversation. You'll find tons of research on it. It's just part of the male/female dynamics. Men are just little boys in bigger costumes, and easily slip into mommy/son roles when the woman is unhappy.

Women tend to want to communicate more than men. Women want to be heard, want their man to listen to them, want to verbally work out an issue. And men would rather crawl under a rock than do that.


----------



## melmargera78 (Oct 18, 2015)

melmargera78 said:


> Wait until your 9 yr old goes to college and then divorce. Until then, keep it cordial. Play nice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Agh, sorry. I was being a smart ass. I don't believe in shutting your mouth until the kids are gone. I listen to Dr Laura in horror and she always gives that advice. It doesn't translate well in sarcasm. My bad.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Shrugz said:


> Hi there. I don't really understand how me wishing to discuss our relationship and how my partner and I need to work on it *together* translates to me wanting to list a bunch of complaints about him. I think you are assuming an awful lot about me. Either that or you believe that as the man of the house he has the right to do whatever the hell he pleases and if that means dismissing or ignoring his partner when she's in pain, so be it.
> 
> As I said in my post above, after some serious thought yesterday I'm adopting a different approach. Contrary to popular belief, unhappy wives are not all nagging harridans who deserve what they get, and I am taking the time to defuse the high tension atmosphere we are currently in so we are *both* in a better place to discuss the situation.
> 
> Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


I think the point is that MN see this as dread, their thoughts go to "Oh no, here we go again, I am at fault, I do not want to do this so I will zone out," and that was my take in my earlier reply. Does not mean it is right, does not mean you have done anything wrong, and no there is nothing wrong with you wanting to talk but if he has it in his mind that you are going to place blame he might not be willing to listen, he might be defensive.

I don't know you or your husband. I am a teacher and a very compassionate person. Just like any marriage we had our issues and plenty of them. Like you, I was the one going to him to try to work thru things. He just did not seem to care. One time his sons were in a tree in the back yard and the older boy dared the younger boy to touch a power-line. I am the stepmom and felt that he should deal with his sons as much as possible so I told him about this. I was calm, there was no harsh tones or me telling him what to do. I was concerned however. His reaction was of "gee woman, why are you bothering me with this?" He didn't care and didn't want to be bothered, he wanted me to take care of issues while he sat in his own little world, zoned out where he was not dealing with reality. Later I asked him why he didn't see this as important and he told me that his mom was always on his case about everything as a kid, that he could do nothing and that he wanted his sons to be able to be boys. They reaped alot of damage and I ended being the one to address issues with them because their dad did not. Life with him would be like this over and over again, situations varying....not involved, didn't care, wanted to be alone. I was the eager one saying "let's do _____." 

Like you, I thought we just needed to reignite the flames, tried several times and yes he liked the sex but that seemed like the only thing he was interested in and after awhile of that I just felt used. It did not change his ability to engage or be intimate. We talked, I read books and would read him bits, we went to counseling where he was told that he was emotionally unavailable and counselors worked with him on steps to be more involved and show he cared. He did go thru the steps but is really was not who he was, he was going thru the motions but I felt his only desire for me was sex. He showed plenty of interest in other women but we had gone down this path so far that eventually there was no return. He was bitter because I was no longer interested in him sexually. I wasn't interested in him sexually because he showed no other interest in me but did show interest in other women and no matter how much we talked about it things did not change. 

I finally stopped trying to involve him in my life. Quit asking him to do things with me or even try to engage him in conversation and he never tired on his own. It just showed me what I had been feeling all along. I had been struggling to pull him into the marriage and he just wanted to be left alone. We are now getting divorced, been married 24 years. I hope this is not your situation. I hope your husband does actually have feelings for you and can show you he cares. One-sided relationships do not work and you end up feeling very alone!


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Shrugz said:


> Hi there. I don't really understand how me wishing to discuss our relationship and how my partner and I need to work on it *together* translates to me wanting to list a bunch of complaints about him. I think you are assuming an awful lot about me. Either that or you believe that as the man of the house he has the right to do whatever the hell he pleases and if that mean*s dismissing or ignoring his partner when she's in pain, so be it.*
> 
> As I said in my post above, after some serious thought yesterday I'm adopting a different approach. Contrary to popular belief, unhappy wives are not all nagging harridans who deserve what they get, and I am taking the time to defuse the high tension atmosphere we are currently in so we are *both* in a better place to discuss the situation.
> 
> Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


You might look at it that way but odds are that's not how your husband looks at it. You keep on thinking that he's ignoring you when in reality he's ignoring the situation which I'm sure is quite painful for both of you. It's not all about you. He's got feelings too. Did you ever ask him why he watched tv instead of talking to you? If not then that's a problem.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

niceguy28 said:


> You might look at it that way but odds are that's not how your husband looks at it. You keep on thinking that he's ignoring you when in reality he's ignoring the situation which I'm sure is quite painful for both of you. It's not all about you. He's got feelings too. Did you ever ask him why he watched tv instead of talking to you? If not then that's a problem.


Wives are not accountable for their husband's feelings or lack of verbal communication, only they can be held accountable and wives should not feel they have to open their husband up to communicate. he is as capable as she is and if he chooses not to communicate it is not the wife's fault or his inability.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Wives are not accountable for their husband's feelings or lack of verbal communication, only they can be held accountable and wives should not feel they have to open their husband up to communicate. he is as capable as she is and if he chooses not to communicate it is not the wife's fault or his inability.


She's the one making judgments though. She is attributing things to him that might not be true without even asking him whether or not he's actually doing what she thinks he's doing. It is her fault.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Good luck Shrugz, I am in about the same situation that you are just that I am the husband. My wife and have been married for 27 yrs and have three ourselves. Things came to a head about 1.5 yrs when she complaining that I was able to talk freely with other people but not her, I asked her when the last time was we actually talked about anything not just the daily needs. During the argument/anger/frustration that followed she said she had taken myself and our marriage for granted and though we were "just" drifting apart for the past 10-15 years. 

There is a lot more to the our story as you know with your own marriage. I also know it hurts being the only one trying to make things work for so long. Best wishes.


----------

