# I found a letter she wrote...



## Slingshot Charlie

My wife of 20+ yrs wrote a 5 page letter to her high school/college boyfriend that lives 1500 miles away. They are not having an affair - I checked all that out. He never got the letter b/c I found it and questioned her about before she mailed it. 

She says in the letter that she loved me for the man, christian, husband and father I am - but in the depths of her heart she'll always love him (ex boyfriend). She also writes that she'll never be able to give herself to me 'totally' b/c she still loves him.

Later in the letter she writes that she knows they'll "most likely" never be together on earth but can spend eternity together in heaven. 

I don't care who you are - that hurts. She apologized for hurting me and the explanation she has is that she does love him for their 'moment in time' together but she 'wants to be with me' and that she really loves me. 

The way I look at it - there is nothing I can do - it is what it is. I can't change her. I haven't done anything so there's nothing I can do with my part of the relationship. It just hurts knowing I'm sleeping with someone that really loves somebody else. 

The ex-boyfriend doesn't even know she has these feelings as they don't talk - so there's nothing he can do and I'm sure wouldn't want to get involved. I guess I'm looking for answers of how to 'live with my situation'. 

thanks,
SSC

Where I grew up - you can't swing a baseball bat from both sides of the plate at once. How in world can a woman love TWO people!


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## GreenEyes

I'm sorry you found that, that's horrible and I would feel awful if I found that letter.....I have no idea what to even say to this because like you said it pretty much is what it is  I think I would personally have to separate from my H in this instance because I would never feel like he truly loves me.


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## tacoma

I couldn't live in your situation.

I'd divorce and find someone who put me first in their heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

sounds like an EA but snail mail style


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## Slingshot Charlie

You know everybody goes nuts when wife or hubby has sex with somebody else and lawyer's up. What is wild about this is - I actually read what she really feels! How many folks out there really know what their spouses 'really' feel?? I'm not into myself and I don't feel sorry for myself - that's why I haven't told anyone but found this forum for sharing it to see what others thought. 

Believe me - it's hard. Last night she kissed me good night in bed and said 'I love you'. I almost said 'really...really??'.


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## Slingshot Charlie

We still have kids at home....hard to pack up and leave. How do you explain that to couple of teenagers??


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## GreenEyes

Slingshot Charlie said:


> We still have kids at home....hard to pack up and leave. How do you explain that to couple of teenagers??


It would def be a hard thing to explain, and you certainly don't have to go into deep details, but unless you and your W can continue life as it has been, your teenagers will notice the difference, the tension. I grew up with many friends whose parents divorced either in their early childhood or later on and most of them were grateful because they said living at home with both parents was uncomfortable....


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## 38m3kids

Dude.. I feel your pain.. Not only did my wife have a brief PA, but i found an email and a hand written letter to the scumbag she cheated with saying things like his wife and daughter are so lucky to have him, and how she wished she was coming home to him every night. Seriously.. how does a man ever get past all that? I hope you find the courage to leave and find someone who appreciates you. I have everything that makes a 38 year old man special, good looks, good body, great job, great father, and for some damn stupid reason, I can't find the courage to leave. Best of Luck!


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## Bottled Up

That's truly awful and heartbreaking... so sorry you found that Charley. It's a tough road ahead for you. 

Marriage is all about trust and a bond between two people that is supposed to be impenetrable, sealed by vows spoken and promised to be honored for the rest of their lives and beyond. Remove those virtues, and marriage becomes nothing more than a state certificate. When you marry someone, you're saying "I want to be with only you for the rest of our lives, and eternity."

Hence the "eternity" part there... Your wife has already admitted she wants to spend eternity with another man, not you. She has already broken the sacraments that make marriage a marriage. If she cannot give you her full heart, then you need to ask yourself if you can live for the rest of your life knowing your marriage and love isn't pure?

Are you ok spending the rest of your life with someone knowing they don't want you in the afterlife?


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## Slingshot Charlie

I think I'll maintain the situation until the kids get out of the house (2 yrs). I've never been self centered bt I think I may have to start thinking a little more about 'me' and my future. Lower 40's and a good career. I don't want to get down the road - she splits for the ex (since the kids are gone) and I'm left holding the bag. Regardless if I protect my financial future - it still stinks and hurts 'cause I love her.


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## CandieGirl

I'm always amazed how these people can claim to be 'madly in love' with their first boyfriend from high school...all I can say to you, is that it is not your wife's reality - she clings to a fantasy. A child's fantasy at that! Hopefully she pulls her head out before it's too late.


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## Slingshot Charlie

Bottled up: Very good question! (eternity). When I read that I felt "she's using me to get the kids raised....then she's splitting". I've watched a lot of movies but I've never seen anything like this play out. Obviously mentioning Heaven - we both are Christians. We attend worship services regularly and help others who can't help themselves. She is a very nice person, cares for others etc....except this one thing that just happens to be a biggie.


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## Unsure in Seattle

I found a highly sexually charged letter, full of descriptive language that she would be embarrassed (and still sort of is- this was many, many moons ago) to say to ME... addressed to some dude, but not sent. When I came across it, I was told it was for "practice." What exactly were you practicing? I asked. No real response and a bunch of BS and rugsweeping (on both of our parts) followed.

What a "great" feeling.


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## Slingshot Charlie

CandieGirl - you took the words right out my mouth. She grew up in a small town - everyone knew everyone - all real close. I think - okay I can dig that but 'really'??? Get over it and move on...but maybe some folks can't move on....I don't know.


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## Slingshot Charlie

38m3kids - I know this may sound goofy and strange...but I think I could handle her having a one night stand after too many drinks better than I'm handling this. As a believer - I pray for wisdom and strength right?? Dude - this is tough one. You are always thinking - 'Gee I wonder if she's thinking of EX??'


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## tacoma

Slingshot Charlie said:


> We still have kids at home....hard to pack up and leave. How do you explain that to couple of teenagers??


They're teenagers not toddlers.

I'd give them a copy of he letter as my only explanation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment

I think you have an opportunity here to get to the bottom of what is in your wife's heart and work together to strengthen your marriage.

My question - why did she feel a need to write this letter now? What is going on? Why does she feel unfulfilled in your marriage that she would contemplate contacting a long-ago love who has not a clue about any of this? There is something there that is working in her that you need to discover.

Have you considered setting up a time to have some marriage counseling sessions with your pastor to discuss this? And did you ever tell you wife how this has made you feel?

Best wishes.


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## RDJ

I guess I’ll be taken as an optimist or an idiot? (Not that I care)

If there is a piece of your wife’s heart that belongs to another (fantacy or real), It fulfills her in a way that you have missed.

She is with you, she loves you, there is a piece missing in your marriage. Find it and fill it, the piece that is not yours can be replaced by you!

Then forgive your wife, no one on this earth is perfect.


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## CandieGirl

Slingshot Charlie said:


> 38m3kids - I know this may sound goofy and strange...but I think I could handle her having a one night stand after too many drinks better than I'm handling this. As a believer - I pray for wisdom and strength right?? Dude - this is tough one. You are always thinking - 'Gee I wonder if she's thinking of EX??'


Eventually, you will stop wondering that. I had my H lie to me about an ex once. When I found out, naturally I thought the worst - he MUST still be in love with her. Of course, he wasn't. It took me a long time to stop worrying about her, and at the time, I never felt that I'd be able to! But time heals all...in a few months, provided your wife is not seeing this other man, you will feel better. Trust me.


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## Slingshot Charlie

I made copies...may have to share them one day....


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## Jellybeans

Are you SURE she hasn't been in contact with him?

Cause it seems nuts she'd just randomly, out of thin air, write out a 5page letter to some random ex of which youjust happened to intercept.

Back story, please.

And also, I am sorry this happened.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@ CandieGirl - I found the letter Valentines Day - 2010. Oh - Completely forgot to mention this: Apparently she sent him a Valentines Day card a couple days earlier. I found an email she had printed out from him that said, "hey got the V-day card - appreciate it...very sweet." She responded to that email..."I meant every word in it!!"


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## Slingshot Charlie

@ jelliebeans - yes I discovered several txt msgs and email. Only one of those mentioned feelings (Valentines day email I mentioned earlier). He's a small budget film producer and he was doing some research on a potential film setting/story in our home town and she was helping with some research for about two months prior to the 5 pager. I was aware of the research and them emailing/txting during that time.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

Enchantment said:


> I think you have an opportunity here to get to the bottom of what is in your wife's heart and work together to strengthen your marriage.
> 
> My question - why did she feel a need to write this letter now? What is going on? Why does she feel unfulfilled in your marriage that she would contemplate contacting a long-ago love who has not a clue about any of this? There is something there that is working in her that you need to discover.
> 
> Have you considered setting up a time to have some marriage counseling sessions with your pastor to discuss this? And did you ever tell you wife how this has made you feel?
> 
> Best wishes.


It sounds like the Stage 1-2 of a MLC, if you had not found this letter you would have gotten the "Speech" in about six months time. I'd get her into the Doc and have her hormones checked. You could save this relationship catching it this early.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@allthegoodnamesaregone - is MLC physical or mental? We both are in our early 40's and very healthy.


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## CH

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> It sounds like the Stage 1-2 of a MLC, if you had not found this letter you would have gotten the "Speech" in about six months time. I'd get her into the Doc and have her hormones checked. You could save this relationship catching it this early.


No, it sounds like the stages of never having gotten over an old flame and settling for the next guy who came along that was decent, nice and husband material.

She loves her husband but she's never gotten over the old flame. I wonder how long she's been sending him letters over the years. If this continues, he's gonna get the ILYBNILWY speech.


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## Jellybeans

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @ jelliebeans - yes I discovered several txt msgs and email. Only one of those mentioned feelings (*Valentines day email *I mentioned earlier). He's a small budget film producer and he was doing some research on a potential film setting/story in our home town and she was helping with some research for about two months prior to the 5 pager. I was aware of the research and them emailing/txting during that time.


Ok. My guess if the affair has been happening since on or before Valentine's Day. If they were already talking having "feelings" on 2/14 of this year, then that means they had been discussing it prrior. When did she start working with him? How'd they reconnect?

Eh. I think they had/are having an affair.

Can you locate her call logs??? (Do this w/o telling her).

And why was she working with her EX???? HUH? Did you know they had a thing before? Or are you just finding out he was her ex.


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## Slingshot Charlie

He comes home every Christmas for about 3 weeks. We only see him once or twice during that time - in public at two annual parties. We saw him and talked to him in DEC 09. That's when the film talk started and she offered to help him dig up some historical facts about a 'haunted house' for a potential paranormal film. That lasted throughout JAN and I discovered the letter on Valentines day 2010. We I called her on she opened up her email/txting to me. One of the email was deleted (which I found printed off) where she said she 'meant every word in V-day card apparently send a week earlier from when I found her letter. We live back east - he lives in CA - so they've not been having any type of physical fling that I can find.


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## aug

tacoma said:


> They're teenagers not toddlers.
> 
> I'd give them a copy of he letter as my only explanation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Exactly. Teenagers are learning about love, fidelity, respect, faith, etc. What stronger lessons can there be about honesty of feelings, respect for your spouse, then the one you can teach them right now?


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## RClawson

Slingshot Charlie said:


> 38m3kids - I know this may sound goofy and strange...but I think I could handle her having a one night stand after too many drinks better than I'm handling this. As a believer - I pray for wisdom and strength right?? Dude - this is tough one. You are always thinking - 'Gee I wonder if she's thinking of EX??'


Charlie,

I have to agree with this. My wife has an old flame and he has always had some kind of control over her emotionally. If she were to slip up and have a one nighter I believe I could possibly get over it if she were contrite. If she picked up the phone and contacted the old BF just to chat then that could kill our marriage. She knows I despise him and the hold he has had on her. I know she still keeps tabs on him via his sister in law (my wife's best friend.

I know you are thinking of the kids first and I get it but if you choose to stay then please begin making plans to be gone the day they are out the door.

To those of you telling Charlie that he needs to work on this I say you have no idea how this sort of situation grates on you emotionally. There is nothing more demeaning in a relationship to believe you have found the person you want to share the rest of your life with soul with only to find out later that your her second choice. You just cannot sweep that away. It is always there.


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## Jellybeans

Sling... di dyou know they dated before they started wroking together? 

WHy do you guys see him "twice during that time?" Does that mean you've known him your entir emarriage? I am confused.

My spidey sense tells me this affair has been happening since prob late 2009 or early 2010 until now.

when did you find the 5 page letter??? Recently? 

What is she saying to you? Is she feeling remorseful? Guilty? Marriage counselling? Does his wife know?? Have you had any contact with oM?

Please break down the timeline for us.


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## Deejo

My take? 

You can choose to look at this in any number of ways.

Feeling wounded on the inside but sweeping the 'WHY' she feels the way she does under the carpet serves neither of you, or your marriage.

This isn't about how she feels about another guy ... this is about how she DOESN'T feel about you.

And that is what I would be curious about and looking to change.


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## Slingshot Charlie

RClawson - you nailed it on the head brother. This is probably one of those times where "Son...you can't handle the truth" statement rings out loud. However - knowing THE TRUTH allows me time to expect anything and prepare for anything.


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## aug

Slingshot Charlie said:


> My wife of 20+ yrs wrote a 5 page letter to her high school/college boyfriend that lives 1500 miles away. They are not having an affair - I checked all that out. He never got the letter b/c I found it and questioned her about before she mailed it.
> 
> She says in the letter that she loved me for the man, christian, husband and father I am - but in the depths of her heart she'll always love him (ex boyfriend). She also writes that she'll never be able to give herself to me 'totally' b/c she still loves him.
> 
> Later in the letter she writes that she knows they'll "most likely" never be together on earth but can spend eternity together in heaven.



20+ years of faking it -- that hurts!

Time to move on.

Start protecting yourself now. No joint bank accounts, credit cards, debts.

Secure your assets, finances.

Revisit your will and make sure you have a competent estate lawyer go over it to avoid unintended results/loopholes.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @allthegoodnamesaregone - is MLC physical or mental? We both are in our early 40's and very healthy.


It's generally thought to be a hormonal issue that brings out regrets about the past, old flames, missed opportunities, acting like teenagers. If they happen to get in contact with an old flame they haven't even thought of for years your whole married history gets re-written as a mistake or bad from the get go. The OM becomes the "Lost love of their life" even though it's complete bull.


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## Jellybeans

Slingshot Charlie said:


> RClawson - you nailed it on the head brother. This is probably one of those times where "Son...you can't handle the truth" statement rings out loud. However - knowing THE TRUTH allows me time to expect anything and prepare for anything.


It's better to know than not to know.


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## Slingshot Charlie

jellybeans - yes - we were all friends in college. they dated through high school and broke up when we were Freshman in college. He was one yr older than us. They dated others in college - he graduated and moved to NYC then off the CA. Completely out of touch for 10-14 yrs. Then many of friends decided to have annual party for all those coming back home during Christmas/New Years. It's a fun time for about 100 of us. During the 09 party everyone started talking about the old mansion we use to own that considered haunted...he was curious about shooting a documentary about it. That's how the more active re-engagement started. To my knowledge and all my 'spying around' they have never had more than 2 minutes alone. All over email or txt....and of course this letter which he never received.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

aug said:


> 20+ years of faking it -- that hurts!
> 
> Time to move on.
> 
> Start protecting yourself now. No joint bank accounts, credit cards, debts.
> 
> Secure your assets, finances.
> 
> Revisit your will and make sure you have a competent estate lawyer go over it to avoid unintended results/loopholes.


She has not been faking it for 20 years, this is classic MLC. They rewrite the history to justify the affair.


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## Slingshot Charlie

2 aug: working on that


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## Slingshot Charlie

@deejo - at this stage of my life I don't think changing my wife feelings about me is the key. She has told me that he has a part of heart and it's nothing she can do about it. I said..."Sure would have been nice to know that before I slid that ring on your finger!" - Silence followed....


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## Jellybeans

Have you talked to OM at all?

What has your wife said since?

It's time to Man Up, dear.


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## Slingshot Charlie

Can you imagine...after 20 yrs of having babies, hospital visits, coaching 13 seasons of baseball for my kids, family marriages and deaths, family vacations - regular FAMILY LIFE - you find out a part of your wife's heart belongs to someone else!!!???!!!! I can't hardly explain it...


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## Slingshot Charlie

Jellybeans - sorry - this is my first ever forum - talked to OM?? What does OM stand for? If it means the other man - nope - he doesn't have a clue from what I understand. A few months ago we talked and I said we'll just see if we can co-exist. She convinced me that she loves me - okay let's see if that will work. Okay she does - but wait...she also loves somebody else. That goes back and forth in my head about every two or three months. I try not to think about it but it's there.


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## Deejo

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @deejo - at this stage of my life I don't think changing my wife feelings about me is the key. She has told me that he has a part of heart and it's nothing she can do about it. I said..."Sure would have been nice to know that before I slid that ring on your finger!" - Silence followed....


So you were the 'safe' route. I believe that happens more frequently than anyone would care to acknowledge.

However, my point stands, some landmark event has occurred for her ... whether it was she actually hooked up with him, or she is having the mid-life-crisis that others alluded to, and is re-writing and lamenting her own history.

Either way, don't tolerate too much of it.

Challenge her. Sh!t or get off the pot as my dad was fond of saying.


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## Jellybeans

Slingshot Charlie said:


> Jellybeans - sorry - this is my first ever forum - talked to OM?? What does OM stand for?


Aw. The noobs are so cute. Yes, Charlie, it means "Other Man."

K so wait.......she told you that she wanted to work it out but "loves" him too?

Eh. I would be putting up some major boundaries and telling her if that is the case, you have no interest in the marriage. And mean it. 

As for OM not knowing... I don't believe that at all. Not for a second. Cause you said she sent him a card on Valentine's Day discussing feelings or emails.

Timeline please.


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## Slingshot Charlie

deejo - so I do challenge her. She says what she's says before "he has a part of my heart and I can do nothing about it". Then what?? They don't speak or email anymore as I stopped that - wasn't much to stop anyway. Here's one thing I can't stop - her thinking of him or her loving him. That ain't going to happen. What would you do if she were to say that??


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @deejo - at this stage of my life I don't think changing my wife feelings about me is the key. She has told me that he has a part of heart and it's nothing she can do about it. I said..."Sure would have been nice to know that before I slid that ring on your finger!" - Silence followed....


That's because she has no answer for that....yet. Nobody can fake for 20 years. If you tried to explain what you think has gone on as to why she felt this way, Eg. "I was working to hard and away too much" she'll use that to blame you, even if it is not the truth. 

Now starts the blame game, it will be "all your fault", "I never loved you" , "Things were bad even when we were dating" etc. In some cases they'll even go back in time before you even met you for blame and bring up something an old boyfriend did to them and claim you did it. Be prepared


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## Jellybeans

^^ True. NOBODY can fake it for 20 years.

She is doing the standard rewriting of history that all waywards/people in the affair "fog" do.


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## CH

Jellybeans said:


> ^^ True. NOBODY can fake it for 20 years.


I beg to differ!!

There are guys and girls out there who could fake being with someone for their own personal gain (mainly monetary). Now those people should win academy awards IMO because they are the best actors and actresses in the entire world. Aside from our politicians but that's another debate.


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## Jellybeans

I stand corrected.


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## Deejo

Slingshot Charlie said:


> What would you do if she were to say that??


Four years ago, I would have wrung my hands and felt bad for myself.

Now?

I'd be making plans to move out, or suggesting that's what she do. She is full of what makes the grass grow green. She is CHOOSING to do this to herself ... and her husband.


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## Jellybeans

Deejo said:


> Four years ago, I would have wrung my hands and felt bad for myself.
> 
> Now?
> 
> I'd be making plans to move out, or suggesting that's what she do. She is full of what makes the grass grow green. She is CHOOSING to do this to herself ... and her husband.


:iagree:

But... in the thick of it, we never see with the clarity we have after going through the storm. Dammit!


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## CandieGirl

Slingshot Charlie said:


> Can you imagine...after 20 yrs of having babies, hospital visits, coaching 13 seasons of baseball for my kids, family marriages and deaths, family vacations - regular FAMILY LIFE - you find out a part of your wife's heart belongs to someone else!!!???!!!! I can't hardly explain it...


I'm sure it's not that...she married YOU, not HIM. It's only because she seems to have started an EA with him that it's all been raked up again.

Ten years ago, age 31, I got back in touch with my first boyfriend from highschool. We were 15 when we dated. Within a week of our first email, we were making plans to get together - we had 'never gotten over one another'. We were both attached. I pulled the plug before we had the chance to take it to the next level. What we did then wasn't right, but at least we didn't act on it. Now, I look at it as 31 year old me, falling in love with a 15 year old boy...because that's what it would have been.


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## Jellybeans

What ended up happening, Candie?


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## Conrad

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @deejo - at this stage of my life I don't think changing my wife feelings about me is the key. She has told me that he has a part of heart and it's nothing she can do about it. I said..."Sure would have been nice to know that before I slid that ring on your finger!" - Silence followed....


That's the worst thing you could possibly say.

Deejo and RDJ are on this.

Ignore them at your peril.

Of course you are hurt. You can nurse that hurt and your anger. Or, you can choose to be constructive.


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## CandieGirl

Jellybeans said:


> What ended up happening, Candie?


Nothing! At least, not at that time, with that guy...

There are many circumstances - but about not long after, I had an EA with a guy from the States. We only met once, he was here on business and I met him through a girlfriend of mine.We made out that night, he went back home, and we carried on for over a year by email/phone. The attention was intoxicating. I joined dating sites, all the while, still living with my boyfriend in our dead relationship (no excuse for my behaviour). Eventually, I had a 6 month PA with a local guy, who had been on the chase for 2 years, making no bones about how badly he wanted to get with me.

I can't believe I was once that woman...


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

CandieGirl said:


> I'm sure it's not that...she married YOU, not HIM. It's only because she seems to have started an EA with him that it's all been raked up again.
> 
> Ten years ago, age 31, I got back in touch with my first boyfriend from highschool. We were 15 when we dated. Within a week of our first email, we were making plans to get together - we had 'never gotten over one another'. We were both attached. I pulled the plug before we had the chance to take it to the next level. What we did then wasn't right, but at least we didn't act on it. Now, I look at it as 31 year old me, falling in love with a 15 year old boy...because that's what it would have been.


Exactly right!


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## Jellybeans

CandieGirl said:


> Nothing! At least, not at that time, with that guy...
> 
> There are many circumstances - but about not long after, I had an EA with a guy from the States. We only met once, he was here on business and I met him through a girlfriend of mine.We made out that night, he went back home, and we carried on for over a year by email/phone. The attention was intoxicating. I joined dating sites, all the while, still living with my boyfriend in our dead relationship (no excuse for my behaviour). Eventually, I had a 6 month PA with a local guy, who had been on the chase for 2 years, making no bones about how badly he wanted to get with me.
> 
> I can't believe I was once that woman...


Thanks for sharing. The good thing is you have come a long way since then and not repeated that again.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

My H had a thing going with a woman like that. I informed her husband because it had gone on for many years. My marriage broke up over it (and other affections my H accepted from other women who went behind their husband's/partner's back to profess their love for him.) 

How does she treat you generally? I heard from the OW's family that she would provoke her husband to anger and then say that he was abusive, that she would have tantrums and usurped authority from him regarding their children (boys). She was an absolute nutcase, completely delusional. Some people create these romantic stories and get caught up in them. I think your W needs some reality therapy. 

It's not good for people to have someone in their family checked out like that and functioning in a delusional world while pretending to be present. Sending the V Day card sounds about right. My H's OW sent US a Christmas card (without her H's knowledge I'm sure) right before our wedding, even though she'd never been introduced to me and they were having whatever relationship they were having (which my H first claims was only email once in a while, then the occasional phone call...right.) Whatever it was, it's harmful. 

Just because it's supposedly ephemeral and takes place via written or spoken word, does not mean that it doesn't have effects in the real world most of us live in. 

I feel for you. You are sane though and you can handle it, like I did. Stay sane and do whatever it takes for you to hold onto your feelings about the harm inflicted. Therapy helps. Probably her world will fall apart if she is forced to give up her dream. Be prepared for her to cling to it. The more you try to take it away from her the more scared she will become. Sounds like it's become a way of life for her. Ugh.

I'd leave and find someone who cares. Namely, yourself, then someone else. Make sure they are firmly grounded in reality and can handle a relationship with a real man. Not a fantasy one where everything is going to go well, etc.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

RClawson said:


> Charlie,
> To those of you telling Charlie that he needs to work on this I say you have no idea how this sort of situation grates on you emotionally. There is nothing more demeaning in a relationship to believe you have found the person you want to share the rest of your life with soul with only to find out later that your her second choice. You just cannot sweep that away. It is always there.


This thread has been very helpful. I gave my H another chance but to be a leftover and to be treated like a leftover and to be used for whatever is only physical is demeaning. I even think that he might have married me to prove to this OW of his that he could so get someone to marry him, after she dumped him (a couple times). I think a lot of his abuse to me was because I wasn't her. It doesn't sound like a lot, just an early warning sign, but once a person's thinking has gone that far, you wonder who you are living with, it's like living with a ghost.


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## Anubis

@Enchantment - you really seem like you are blaming him for his wife's choices. Given the details revealed following your post, it's got me upset at you. RClawson said it better than I could.

@Deejo - Nail on the head -- but I am not sure realistically there is anything in her heart that he can change. He's the 20 years of reality, the OM is the 20 years of fantasy.

@allthegoodnamesaregone - let me tell you from experience.. on both sides ... it is NOT a "Hormonal Issue" unless you consider "breathes, converts biomass to energy, metabolizes" as a "Hormonal Issue". Though you defiantly called it about the re-writing of history.

@Slignshot Charlie -- something to consider... has your marriage passed the 20 year mark yet? If so, depending on where you live it could have a considerable impact on the financial pain of divorce. You need to, for your own awareness if nothing else, check up on the laws in your state regarding alimony, etc...

I will say this.. it is defiantly possible to be in a marriage for decades, and trying hard the whole time to be a good spouse but secretly wishing you were with someone else.

I think it's very likely that Charlie will never occupy the place, or its equivalent, in her heart that the OM does.

I honestly think that ultimately the best overall option for him is to 'let her go'. :et her go and see if she can find happiness with someone else, because she right now is denying both herself and Charlie the possibility of that lifetime happiness. Charlie deserves a second chance at honesty.

The bottom line is -- you only live once. When you leave this earth, will your last thought be "for my entire life, I was his/her #2"?


----------



## allthegoodnamesaregone

Anubis said:


> @Enchantment - you really seem like you are blaming him for his wife's choices. Given the details revealed following your post, it's got me upset at you. RClawson said it better than I could.
> 
> @Deejo - Nail on the head -- but I am not sure realistically there is anything in her heart that he can change. He's the 20 years of reality, the OM is the 20 years of fantasy.
> 
> @allthegoodnamesaregone - let me tell you from experience.. on both sides ... it is NOT a "Hormonal Issue" unless you consider "breathes, converts biomass to energy, metabolizes" as a "Hormonal Issue". Though you defiantly called it about the re-writing of history.
> 
> @Slignshot Charlie -- something to consider... has your marriage passed the 20 year mark yet? If so, depending on where you live it could have a considerable impact on the financial pain of divorce. You need to, for your own awareness if nothing else, check up on the laws in your state regarding alimony, etc...
> 
> I will say this.. it is defiantly possible to be in a marriage for decades, and trying hard the whole time to be a good spouse but secretly wishing you were with someone else.
> 
> I think it's very likely that Charlie will never occupy the place, or its equivalent, in her heart that the OM does.
> 
> I honestly think that ultimately the best overall option for him is to 'let her go'. :et her go and see if she can find happiness with someone else, because she right now is denying both herself and Charlie the possibility of that lifetime happiness. Charlie deserves a second chance at honesty.
> 
> The bottom line is -- you only live once. When you leave this earth, will your last thought be "for my entire life, I was his/her #2"?


I beg to differ, it is "hormonal" in a lot of cases, the majority of the female MLC's are in the age of peri menopause. Those that have been through it mention the sudden drive to gain the attention of men and a increased sex drive, a result of increased testosterone. I've just lived through this first hand and spent the last year studying it.


----------



## Anubis

Twofaces said:


> Increased testosterone in Peri???? Who told you that????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Indeed, I would like to see the supporting documentation on that. I see that estrogen and progesterone production is affected, but nothing about testosterone.

And more to the point, this thought bugs me... The idea that hormones would overwhelm a woman's brain and make her conduct an affair with a past lover AND put her deep into the fog about the status of that, and her chosen husband... all this if attributed to only hormones means that in the absence of those hormones (or hormonal changes) all this would have never happened. I do NOT buy that. You might as well just say "It was God's will". Both have the safe effect of absolving her of all responsibility for not only the actions she has done but also for what has gone on inside of her head.

No. I don't buy it for a second. The *actions* we are talking about here are not the same as an *urge* to be more attractive and sexual to men in general.

I've been on the receiving end of this myself. I've done this myself. His wife, at some level, has believed... all this time... that she has "settled" for Charlie, and that "better" was out there and she knew his name. Now that he knows, he's faced with some tough decisions about his and her future.


----------



## Deejo

Anubis said:


> I think it's very likely that Charlie will never occupy the place, or its equivalent, in her heart that the OM does.


But that is the insidious thing. The man that has a piece of her heart doesn't exist. He's an amalgam. He's a fantasy. He is distinctly NOT her ex. 
People do this quite frequently. In the same way they can demonize a spouse that they have become disenchanted with, some people can 'feed' the notion of this 'one true, perfect, love' for years ... despite the fact that the flesh and blood version of that person dumped them, or vice versa.

She has given her heart to an idea that she has associated with a person. It ISN'T reality. 

And quite frankly, the notion that my spouse would rather focus on a non-existent relationship, rather than the one they have, is nothing short of pathetic.

I'm comfortable making that call, because I was guilty of this very thing, many, many, years ago.


----------



## Anubis

Trenton said:


> I do wonder though if she wrote the letter at a down time in her life? Was it more a journal entry where she was getting it off her chest?



If you read the thread on page 2, you would see that there was more to it than just a letter. She has had recent contact and other communications with the OM. I would nix the journal theory (and even if, it doesn't change the concept that she feels she 'settled' for less)


----------



## Entropy3000

Slingshot Charlie said:


> We still have kids at home....hard to pack up and leave. How do you explain that to couple of teenagers??


She is re-writing history. She was fishing for an affair. More common than one might think. This OM is a fantasy. It happens a lot these days. Youth rekindled. Do not accept this. She is making you the second choice. I suspect that this is indeed history being rewriten. She is in love with this fantasy. It is easy to be that fantasy. The fantasy does no heavy lifting. It is only a point in time. An ideal. It meets only a very narrow area of need without having to deal with the rest of the real world. 

Check out the Men's area on the Nice Guy syndrome. Also check out www.marriedmansexlife.com.

The bottom line is that your wife no matter how she spins it is being unfaithful to you. A woman can seem to love two men at once during the transition. She then moves to where you really are. She loves you but is not in love with you. This is a bad place to be. 

You may or may not be correct about her being in contact with him. The thing is she was fishing and prepared to give herself to this other man with you as plan B. This is called cake eating. This seems like her being in love with two men but again in reality it is her being in love with one man romantically and cuckolded another man she supposedly loves and who she allows to meet most of her needs while the OM enjoys the fruits of that relationship while doing no heavy lifting.

It is probably less about this specific OM and more about her exploring her options. So yes, make sure she does not escalate her plans with this guy by being vigilant and making sure she is not having a secret affair with him or anyone else. Is he friended on her facebook? Does she have an affsir phone of email account you are not aware of? Has she attended a high scholl reunion recently or planning to do so. 

I suggest that you not become too myopic about this one OM and be open to the fact that she may be on the prowl in general.


----------



## Entropy3000

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @ jelliebeans - yes I discovered several txt msgs and email. Only one of those mentioned feelings (Valentines day email I mentioned earlier). He's a small budget film producer and he was doing some research on a potential film setting/story in our home town and she was helping with some research for about two months prior to the 5 pager. I was aware of the research and them emailing/txting during that time.


B I N G O.

In general it is a less than optimal situation for a spouse to have contact like in this manner with an ex lover. It is asking for trouble. And one then has to ask how did this situation begin?

1) Instigation -- Someone gets ths contact started. It sounds like she sought him out actively. Bad news. That is an open door for the OM.

2) Isolation -- You become isolated from the two of them. i.e. Valentines greetings, letters and so on that you are not part of.

3) Escalation -- One thing leading to another. i.e. contact and then, hey I am working on this project maybe you can help out. Lets get together. How about my apartment. I'll meet you at the airport.

I have not read the rast yet but this has already gone from her not sending the letter to an unsuspecting OM and now there is actually interaction. Serious interaction.


----------



## Entropy3000

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @deejo - at this stage of my life I don't think changing my wife feelings about me is the key. She has told me that he has a part of heart and it's nothing she can do about it. I said..."Sure would have been nice to know that before I slid that ring on your finger!" - Silence followed....


You are missing the point. She is a in a fog of sorts. Feelings change over time and history is re-written many times by some. Just because she says these things does not make them true for any time other than right now. She sounds like she is in the affair fog. It is chemical. Oxytocin and dopamine. It is folly to just accept what she says as fact. She must go totally NC with this guy. Go through withdrawal. This will take a coupe of months anyway. Only then can you begin to rebuild your marriage. So you can fight for your marriage or hand this OM your wife. Your choice. Just being accepting is a Nice Guy approach with spells FAIL.


----------



## Entropy3000

Slingshot Charlie said:


> deejo - so I do challenge her. She says what she's says before "he has a part of my heart and *I can do nothing about it*". Then what?? They don't speak or email anymore as I stopped that - wasn't much to stop anyway. Here's one thing I can't stop - her thinking of him or her loving him. That ain't going to happen. What would you do if she were to say that??


*All fallacies. You make statement s like they are fact and the good news is you are wrong.* There is much that can be done. She must go through withdrawal and you can work on your marriage.

That said, you need to investigate and find out the true extent of the affair. If they consummated the affair it is going to be a much tougher way to go. They may very well have brought the affair undergound. Other posters can help you with methods for investigation.

FWIW, I was in an EA years ago. Trust me when I say that the affair fog is a very reversible thing.


----------



## Catherine602

She had an affair. It was one sided perhaps when you intercepted the letter and emotional but it was an affair. It had all of the makings of a budding PA if the OM was wiling and fate had not stepped in. 

This happened 2 years ago but it was never resolved. She never apologized to the man who has been at her side, gave her the kids, loved her when she had no makeup on, and endured years of bed head views, illness, family issues. 

She tells you that he has a piece of her heart??? To your face???? No, this cannot be so. She should have been shoved out the door so she could give him all of her carcass. 

You cannot allow this to fester longer. I can see why you were confused about what to do, it did not seem like an affair but it was. That is why you are so devastated. 

The thing is that instead of expressions of regret and a promise to make amends for hurting you, she justifies her deception and betrayal. Moreover, she has the balls to remain in your presence with no shame. 

You are suffering and have been for sometime. If you have any doubt about revisiting this because you allowed it to pass too easily the first time around, drop them. 

Do you have any doubts about reassessing things now and telling her what she needs to do to remain your wife for the time being? If you do, chuck them. 

She will probably tell you that you should be over it but that is in her interest not yours. If she were remorseful, she would tell you she was gland you brought it up and she wants to make amends. 

Please keep posting and be guided by the suggestions and support. Don't do anything till you are ready. But if you are looking for confirmation that you need to hit this hard even after the years that have passed, you have my vote in the affirmative.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> She had an affair. It was one sided perhaps when you intercepted the letter and emotional but it was an affair. It had all of the makings of a budding PA if the OM was wiling and fate had not stepped in.
> 
> This happened 2 years ago but it was never resolved. She never apologized to the man who has been at her side, gave her the kids, loved her when she had no makeup on, and endured years of bed head views, illness, family issues.
> 
> She tells you that he has a piece of her heart??? To your face???? No, this cannot be so. She should have been shoved out the door so she could give him all of her carcass.
> 
> You cannot allow this to fester longer. I can see why you were confused about what to do, it did not seem like an affair but it was. That is why you are so devastated.
> 
> The thing is that instead of expressions of regret and a promise to make amends for hurting you, she justifies her deception and betrayal. Moreover, she has the balls to remain in your presence with no shame.
> 
> You are suffering and have been for sometime. If you have any doubt about revisiting this because you allowed it to pass too easily the first time around, drop them.
> 
> Do you have any doubts about reassessing things now and telling her what she needs to do to remain your wife for the time being? If you do, chuck them.
> 
> She will probably tell you that you should be over it but that is in her interest not yours. If she were remorseful, she would tell you she was gland you brought it up and she wants to make amends.
> 
> Please keep posting and be guided by the suggestions and support. Don't do anything till you are ready. But if you are looking for confirmation that you need to hit this hard even after the years that have passed, you have my vote in the affirmative.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Catherine602

I do agree with Entropy - you are not seeing this in its proper light. These things are commonly expressed by people who get addicted to a fantasy. They rewrite history because if they didn't, they would be faced with the full realization and guilt of their betrayal. 

Your wife loved you and probably still does. She regressed back to high school and acted like a love struck teen, only she put the happiness and stability of her family on a foundation of fairy dust.


----------



## RClawson

CandieGirl said:


> I'm sure it's not that...she married YOU, not HIM. It's only because she seems to have started an EA with him that it's all been raked up again.
> 
> If I see "she married you, not him" one more time on this site I am going to have to buy a new monitor for my PC.
> 
> That fact is meaningless in these circumstances! Period! Ever hear of Plan B ? I am Plan B. I was the safe guy, the guy from the right side of the tracks, the guy she could take home to mom and dad.
> 
> I will say for the 20th time on this site. I have her heart but he still has her mind. He is always lurking.
> 
> So Charlie once again this is not going away but in about 15 to 20 years the pain will be a bit more dull. Think about it.


----------



## johniori1

i don't want to live in this situation


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> I beg to differ, it is "hormonal" in a lot of cases, the majority of the female MLC's are in the age of peri menopause. Those that have been through it mention the sudden drive to gain the attention of men and a increased sex drive, a result of increased testosterone. I've just lived through this first hand and spent the last year studying it.


That would mean that men are ALWAYS narcissistic attention seekers due to their testosterone? Sounds like something other than science to me! (And I am a woman!) 

Let's have some references, from PubMed, medical journals, etc. Not just one, but a lot, and any of the refutals and critiques as well, please.


----------



## Laurae1967

Deejo said:


> But that is the insidious thing. The man that has a piece of her heart doesn't exist. He's an amalgam. He's a fantasy. He is distinctly NOT her ex.
> People do this quite frequently. In the same way they can demonize a spouse that they have become disenchanted with, some people can 'feed' the notion of this 'one true, perfect, love' for years ... despite the fact that the flesh and blood version of that person dumped them, or vice versa.
> 
> She has given her heart to an idea that she has associated with a person. It ISN'T reality.
> 
> And quite frankly, the notion that my spouse would rather focus on a non-existent relationship, rather than the one they have, is nothing short of pathetic.
> 
> I'm comfortable making that call, because I was guilty of this very thing, many, many, years ago.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

She is unhappy, blaming you, and using a juvenile "one who got away" scenario to cope with her misery. Pathetic. And so sad for you. If you want to stay married, get counseling with her so a therapist can explain this to her.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

RClawson said:


> If I see "she married you, not him" one more time on this site I am going to have to buy a new monitor for my PC.


:iagree:

Who marries someone while they have not done the things they need to do to prepare themselves emotionally for a successful marriage? Or gets into a marriage and then has to be 'caught' before they take any steps to do so? 

Even when I was alone, and realizing that I wanted a marriage, I contacted an ex-fiance I was still 'obsessing' over, and told him what was up. I wrote to him and explained what was going on in my mind, how it was making me stuck by preventing me from any kind of new relationship. I hadn't seen him in many years. He was very helpful in helping me to resolve the issues I had. I felt better about my initial choice to end the relationship I'd had with him. He ceased being a ghost and got put back into a rightful place in reality. I haven't had any contact with him since, and don't need to, and in fact hadn't thought about him much until now. 

There are CHOICES people, women, men alike can make, and things to do to put their fantasy thinkingto rest so that they can enjoy and treasure their reality and have respectful and real relationships with the man who gives them his entire heart, physically and spiritually. Someone who cannot take charge of something that threatens their ability to keep body and spirit together is off-balance and a coward. I would not want to be married to someone who can't go the distance for our relationship, and would put a fantasy before our relationship.


----------



## Halien

Maybe this could be an opportunity to learn more about what is missing for her in the marriage, as some have noted, but it seems like this approach misses the real point of what is going on. It suggests a theme where the benevolent wife model is implied, one where the wife would easily slide into a perfect marriage if the man would only wake up and do his part to address the flaws in the marriage. 

But love isn't like some incurable disease, an affliction, that simply clings to a person's heart for life, like a free ride. The wife chose to nourish this obsession and feelings for ths other man for many years. If she had tried to push him out of her mind, focusing on her husband, wouldn't you think that this would've accomplished so much more in the way of improving the marriage? Instead, like a 13 year old, she chose to nourish the other love, turning it into a romantic dream worthy of a literary best seller. If the OP addresses the weaknesses in the marriage, he will still only be 2nd in her heart until she grows up and puts him on the pedestal she has reserved for another man.


----------



## CandieGirl

RClawson said:


> CandieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it's not that...she married YOU, not HIM. It's only because she seems to have started an EA with him that it's all been raked up again.
> 
> If I see "she married you, not him" one more time on this site I am going to have to buy a new monitor for my PC.
> 
> That fact is meaningless in these circumstances! Period! Ever hear of Plan B ? I am Plan B. I was the safe guy, the guy from the right side of the tracks, the guy she could take home to mom and dad.
> 
> I will say for the 20th time on this site. I have her heart but he still has her mind. He is always lurking.
> 
> So Charlie once again this is not going away but in about 15 to 20 years the pain will be a bit more dull. Think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> How is it that he is always lurking? In her mind, or does she have contact? If there is contact, then you should have put the kibosh on that ages ago. And if there isn't, then your wife has issues. It's unrealistic to pine away for someone else for 20+ years, as in the OP's case (not sure about yours, don't mean to sound harsh).
> 
> Lurking ex's need to be dealt with on a high priority - my H was approached by an ex only days ago. Rather than let it go on because they ARE just friends after all, I (we) nipped it, pronto. Is she going to keep on lurking? I hope not...but my husband was pretty amazed and almost flattered that I was willing to step in like this and chase her away. His words were "No one's ever fought for me like that before...".
> 
> Get rid of the ex - one way or another. If your wife refuses, then maybe time to go.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jellybeans

CandieGirl said:


> Get rid of the ex - one way or another. If your wife refuses, then maybe time to go.


:iagree:

As long as he is in the picture, you have no marriage.


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

Charlie (OP):

What is it that you want?


----------



## Slingshot Charlie

My wife has no contact with her ex boyfriend....physical or email/txt/fb. She offered to stop all of that when we talked last. There wasn't much communication anyway. He lives in on the West Coast - we are back East. He is poor and can't afford to travel so he only comes home to see his parents/friends during Christmas. We see him at the public Christmas party (mentioned earlier) and we all talk about work and life in general. He doesn't have a clue about the letter. He just thinks of her as his ex girlfriend. 

He is still single. In her letter she writes him that she believes the reason he still is single because he still loves her too. That's when she writes about being with him in eternity...."since she's stuck with me on earth" (I added that). 

I trust few people since I've been in business for many yrs and see how people can become but I am fairly certain she and him have not been together physically - there hasn't been an opportunity. Even if they did squeeze off a "quicky" at some hotel room during one his annual Christmas visits - she didn't mention it in the letter. 

Someone asked me how she treats me. Very good also probably the best mother I've ever been around. We were very good friends in college and cut up and laughed all the time. We even went to Panama City together on Spring Break in college. (we were messing around in college some) She's very independent and a strong willed person - only seen her cry 4 times in the 22 yrs we've been together. One of the times is when I was contemplating leaving after finding the letter. 

You know what they say about 'gut feelings'. I've had a gut feeling that I'm here to have children and to provide....for a very long time. Maybe some guys just have those feelings or thoughts. However she will inherit mucho coin soon and I'll be interested to see if a sudden swing in actions come to pass. I doubt it will (since we are financially okay now) but I'm preparing myself for that day in the event it happens.

It seems I'm 'Preparing for the Worst and hoping for the Best'....things people do in business every day. It's almost like I'm taking a business approach with my thoughts and potential actions - BUT I don't believe that is normal for a wife and husband. 

For those suggesting I leave...okay then what? I don't care to find another woman...I love her - I've always loved her -since we were in college. If I were to leave - I'm sure I'd remain single and focus on my work and my mission work. Does is suck to become 65 yrs old and alone - yep but I couldn't do to another woman (loving someone else) like my wife did to me. That just isn't right. Just because it was done to me doesn't give the right or justification to do it to someone else. Make sense?


----------



## Bottled Up

CandieGirl said:


> RClawson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get rid of the ex - one way or another. If your wife refuses, then maybe time to go.
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> If there's any hope for a future with you two, you ABSOLUTELY need to get rid of the OM in this situation.
> 
> After reading this entire thread, everyone has great perspectives from all different angles. But I now come to the conclusion that knowing marriages are never easy, I think they're at least worth trying to fight for even if you haven't knowingly/intentionally done something wrong to damage the marriage.
> 
> Perhaps you can make strides to at least _try_ to save your marriage, by openly discussing with your wife ways to cut off all contact with the OM and getting her head back into the marriage: Discuss how you both will not be attending any future reunions or events if the OM is going to be there, and also let her know that you will be politely reaching out to the OM as well to discuss the importance of your wife cutting off all future contact with him. See how she_ reacts_ to that. If she seems open to moving forward with you on making those accomodations to work on your marriage together, then it's possible you can still save your marriage and bring her focus and heart back on you. But if she rejects these proposals, that means she is not willing to sacrifice a childish high school fantasy to come back to the light and focus on the family and man she committed herself to 20 years ago, and re-discover her love for you as her one and only.
Click to expand...


----------



## Enchantment

Slingshot Charlie said:


> For those suggesting I leave...okay then what? I don't care to find another woman...I love her - I've always loved her -since we were in college. If I were to leave - I'm sure I'd remain single and focus on my work and my mission work. Does is suck to become 65 yrs old and alone - yep but I couldn't do to another woman (loving someone else) like my wife did to me. That just isn't right. Just because it was done to me doesn't give the right or justification to do it to someone else. Make sense?


Hi Charlie ~

Have you considered counselling for yourself at all? It may help you work through the feelings and issues so that you can be at a better point to determine which direction to go.

Best wishes.


----------



## Conrad

Slingshot Charlie said:


> My wife has no contact with her ex boyfriend....physical or email/txt/fb. She offered to stop all of that when we talked last. There wasn't much communication anyway. He lives in on the West Coast - we are back East. He is poor and can't afford to travel so he only comes home to see his parents/friends during Christmas. We see him at the public Christmas party (mentioned earlier) and we all talk about work and life in general. He doesn't have a clue about the letter. He just thinks of her as his ex girlfriend.
> 
> He is still single. In her letter she writes him that she believes the reason he still is single because he still loves her too. That's when she writes about being with him in eternity...."since she's stuck with me on earth" (I added that).
> 
> I trust few people since I've been in business for many yrs and see how people can become but I am fairly certain she and him have not been together physically - there hasn't been an opportunity. Even if they did squeeze off a "quicky" at some hotel room during one his annual Christmas visits - she didn't mention it in the letter.
> 
> Someone asked me how she treats me. Very good also probably the best mother I've ever been around. We were very good friends in college and cut up and laughed all the time. We even went to Panama City together on Spring Break in college. (we were messing around in college some) She's very independent and a strong willed person - only seen her cry 4 times in the 22 yrs we've been together. One of the times is when I was contemplating leaving after finding the letter.
> 
> You know what they say about 'gut feelings'. I've had a gut feeling that I'm here to have children and to provide....for a very long time. Maybe some guys just have those feelings or thoughts. However she will inherit mucho coin soon and I'll be interested to see if a sudden swing in actions come to pass. I doubt it will (since we are financially okay now) but I'm preparing myself for that day in the event it happens.
> 
> It seems I'm 'Preparing for the Worst and hoping for the Best'....things people do in business every day. It's almost like I'm taking a business approach with my thoughts and potential actions - BUT I don't believe that is normal for a wife and husband.
> 
> For those suggesting I leave...okay then what? I don't care to find another woman...I love her - I've always loved her -since we were in college. If I were to leave - I'm sure I'd remain single and focus on my work and my mission work. Does is suck to become 65 yrs old and alone - yep but I couldn't do to another woman (loving someone else) like my wife did to me. That just isn't right. Just because it was done to me doesn't give the right or justification to do it to someone else. Make sense?


No it doesn't.

You are not nearly as powerless as you profess.


----------



## Laurae1967

Halien said:


> Maybe this could be an opportunity to learn more about what is missing for her in the marriage, as some have noted, but it seems like this approach misses the real point of what is going on. It suggests a theme where the benevolent wife model is implied, one where the wife would easily slide into a perfect marriage if the man would only wake up and do his part to address the flaws in the marriage.
> 
> But love isn't like some incurable disease, an affliction, that simply clings to a person's heart for life, like a free ride. The wife chose to nourish this obsession and feelings for ths other man for many years. If she had tried to push him out of her mind, focusing on her husband, wouldn't you think that this would've accomplished so much more in the way of improving the marriage? Instead, like a 13 year old, she chose to nourish the other love, turning it into a romantic dream worthy of a literary best seller. If the OP addresses the weaknesses in the marriage, he will still only be 2nd in her heart until she grows up and puts him on the pedestal she has reserved for another man.


Great post. I totally agree.

I do think it is important to try to work with the OP's wife to figure out what she feels is missing in her life, but that is not the same thing as blaming the OP for his wife's emotional immaturity or unhappiness, which is solely hers. But if nobody ever calls her on her $hit, they both lose. He has to end a marriage he wants to keep, and she ends up divorced and regretting not being more emotionally mature because once she's a free woman, the OM will likely not reciprocate her feelings. Reality tends to throw cold water on romantic flights of fancy!


----------



## CandieGirl

Enchantment said:


> Hi Charlie ~
> 
> Have you considered counselling for yourself at all? It may help you work through the feelings and issues so that you can be at a better point to determine which direction to go.
> 
> Best wishes.


Has anyone mentioned couselling for her? Can't remember, long thread...It might be beneficial for both. IC (for both) as well as MC. Before filing the divorce papers and all...


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## Slingshot Charlie

@ enchantment - I have considered counseling. I pray a lot. I talk to two of my friends about it - we are tight and they have helped me through much of this. I credit them two with saving my life that day. (I thought I was having a heart attack). I didn't sleep for 2 weeks. I read that letter at least 25 times those two weeks hoping I mis-read it. I was hoping 2 yrs would heal - but not really. I think I will seek some counseling for me and for us.


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## Slingshot Charlie

It's obvious - I'm from Mars and she's from Venus - M and W don't think alike and I can appreciate that. So for the women that have commented here: Can a tractor trailer load of counseling change my wife's heart and who she loves? From my standpoint - a hypnotist couldn't make me change the way I feel about my wife. I suppose my question is this - what could a counselor DO for my wife??


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## CandieGirl

Slingshot Charlie said:


> It's obvious - I'm from Mars and she's from Venus - M and W don't think alike and I can appreciate that. So for the women that have commented here: Can a tractor trailer load of counseling change my wife's heart and who she loves? From my standpoint - a hypnotist couldn't make me change the way I feel about my wife. I suppose my question is this - what could a counselor DO for my wife??


The counsellor isn't going to DO anything - it's your wife that has to do the heavy lifting. The counsellor is just there to point her in the right direction by getting her to question herself and her motives with this.

It could be that this guy has NO interest at all in your wife, despite her undying love. Maybe if she sees that (and pulls her finger out) the two of you can start the process of recovery.

This was 2 years ago that you found the letter?


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## Enchantment

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @ enchantment - I have considered counseling. I pray a lot. I talk to two of my friends about it - we are tight and they have helped me through much of this... I think I will seek some counseling for me and for us.


I am happy to hear this, Charlie. Your story makes my heart heavy, and I hope that you can get some relief from your burdened heart. You mention praying a lot - I will pray for you too - and if you are a Christian man I'll leave you with this: 

_Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ~ Matthew 11:28_

Praying for peace for you.

God Bless.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@RCLawson - you are right on. I was/am the safe bet. Since you know how it feels - how do you communicate with your wife? For instance I seldom pull out the letter but I feel I have to as a reminder of the reality of my relationship is in that letter. So I pull out the letter two days ago - find you guys and start chatting about it. But when I see my wife - I can't hardly look at her b/c I know how she feels. Is that weird or what?


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## Laurae1967

The counselor will work with her on her congnitive distortions. Just because she feels this sense of "love" for the OM does not mean that it is based in reality. Most people who cheat either emotionally or physically are looking to other people to make them feel whole, to feel happy, etc. But it doesn't work that way. She is trying to fill a void that she has to fill HERSELF by learning to love herself, to live a fulfilling life, etc. She has to be the one to meet the majority of her needs but she doesn't realize this. 

To be honest, this whole scenario is not really about this other guy. He just happens to be convenient. She doesn't know what he's really like now and has never had to live with him in a committed relationship, where he farts, forgets to take out the garbage, and picks his nose on the couch. She has made him into something in her mind that is a projection of her fantasies.

The guy likely has no interest in her, but I bet he loves the ego boost she's giving him.

Praying does not fix marriages. Getting to the heart of your wife's distortions is what will help. I know this because I've lived it. I was like your wife and I had to lose my first marriage before I realized that it was ME who was the problem, not my husband. I had a wacko therapist who only made the situation worse.

So when you do find a counselor, make sure they are a psychologist, not just a "therapist" or "counselor" or "social worker".


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## Shaggy

Slingshot Charlie said:


> deejo - so I do challenge her. She says what she's says before "he has a part of my heart and I can do nothing about it". Then what?? They don't speak or email anymore as I stopped that - wasn't much to stop anyway. Here's one thing I can't stop - her thinking of him or her loving him. That ain't going to happen. What would you do if she were to say that??


I would honestly say, that everyone has a past love they care for still. 

The problem here is that she's isn't just doing that. She has been actively fishing and reaching out to him to rekindle the relationship. The note she wrote was entirely filled with attempts to one up the relationship - to get him to respond with encouragement and reciprocate the feelings.

It was an out and out invitation to come take her and to cheat.

What she is now saying is are defiant slaps in your face about how your can't take away her true love or true feelings.

these are the words of someone in deep in the Affair Fog.

btw - there is a good chance she threw herself physically at him when they were working together.

If she is that much into him, she will be looking for ways to feed her fantasy - she will be finding ways to reach out to him. 

Look out for hidden phones, secret email accounts, and texting to "girl friends" on her phone. Also look out for them playing online games together where they can text messages back and forth.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@Laurae1967 - (Good year BTW). You evaluation makes sense. The other guy isn't getting much of an ego boost as I don't think he knows much about all this that went down. I mainly pray for wisdom and strength to handle this situation and of course for my wife's health and happiness.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@Shaggy - she only worked with him for about a month - remotely. I counted maybe 9 or 10 email total. They never worked in the same office, building, county or state. I do know that for fact. She was scanning and emailing him from my office at home. I'm not naive enough to believe their may have a been an email slipped in (other than the one I found about the V-day card). But one interesting email from him was that he told her that he was glad for her to have found a great husband, two great kids - basically living the American dream. His emails to her where short and to the point and congratulating her on having a successful marriage and life. So I really think this is a one-way-love-thang going on...


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## Slingshot Charlie

@CandieGirl - it will be two years on Valentines day 2012.


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## Scannerguard

> I would honestly say, that everyone has a past love they care for still.
> 
> The problem here is that she's isn't just doing that. She has been actively fishing and reaching out to him to rekindle the relationship. The note she wrote was entirely filled with attempts to one up the relationship - to get him to respond with encouragement and reciprocate the feelings.


Agree here.

I will always, ALWAYS, have a thing for my ex-wife and any woman has to deal with the soft spot.

I thought one woman said it well, "If anything ever happened to her, I'd grieve with you."

But it's another thing, despite having affections, to reach out an invite anotehr male advance.

In short, she was putting it out there. (to be blunt)

And she hasn't fessed up to it. 

She has to fess up.


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## AFEH

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @ enchantment - I have considered counseling. I pray a lot. I talk to two of my friends about it - we are tight and they have helped me through much of this. I credit them two with saving my life that day. (I thought I was having a heart attack). I didn't sleep for 2 weeks. I read that letter at least 25 times those two weeks hoping I mis-read it. I was hoping 2 yrs would heal - but not really. I think I will seek some counseling for me *and for us*.


There are times in your life when you need to stop worrying about others and focus on yourself. This is one of those times. It is a time when you no longer think “We” or “Us”, you think “I” and “Me”. And you learn how to look after yourself.

IC will help you sort out your emotions but perhaps more importantly help you to identify healthy personal boundaries and teach you safe, effective and humanistic ways of enforcing them.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about how your wife feels about the other man. She may well be totally deluded about the whole thing but you simply cannot rationalise her delusions or convince her she is wrong. She believes what she believes and that’s all there is to it.

But you must take good care of yourself and part of that care is healthy boundaries. Why on earth you want to remain totally committed to a woman who so obviously not totally committed to you is way beyond me.

If she is deluded and in a blind stupor she needs waking up out of it such that she sees reality. To this end you could try the 180 for a while which essentially means you cut out all loving and supportive gestures towards her plus other things. If after 3 months that fails to wake her up then divorce papers may well do the trick.


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## Scannerguard

Gosh dang. . .let's back off a bit. . .I wasn't suggesting pulling the divorce gun. . .I do think she needs to have a mea culpa. . .as serious as her behavior was, Slingshot, I don't think her feelings she harbors all that serious.

You know what it sounds like? A crush.

Crush's happen all the time in the confines of marriages. You may get a crush on a secretary one day. Your wife may get a crush on one of her son's friends when she is 45 and they're 22. It could even be a "Hard Crush" into where feelings are present.

That IS normal sexuality. 

The best thing I think is for her to admit, "Gee, yeah, I had this terrible crush on my ex. The worst thing I did was put myself out there for his advances, even if I wouldn't act on them, but if only to validate I'm a beautiful desirable woman."

She'll get over the crush in due time, I think. But not if she continues to be in denial.

Something that may help this turn around is explore what it was about this guy (aloofness, clown, athlete, whatever) that she finds so alluring to risk her marriage over. . .then maybe try to emulate a little (not to the point of pandering or not being true to yourself).

Or if you can't be this guy in whatever capacity, be confident enough to know that's okay.

But don't pull the divorce gun. Don't think about even going for it, partner.


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## Scannerguard

BTW, don't think I don't get you. . .kind of reminds me of the movie "Legends of the Fall" where the woman had this desire to be with the Oldest Brother (Brad Pitt) but was with the sensible, settled down brother.

In end, when she dies, he laments, "They all loved you, didn't they." and he wants to be alone with his wife for a few minutes.

So. . .yes, I understand that deep pain and the heart is a funny thing and who knows. . .maybe women always want the Bad Boy (Brad Pitt in the movie).

I love movies. Very special meaning to me.

If you two haven't seen it, sit her down, make her watch it, and then at the end tell her you identify with the Middle Brother and ask her if our marriage is going to be like theirs?


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## Anubis

Charlie, 
All the counseling in the world isn't going to do a darn thing... unless your wife WANTS things to change. That is the blocking point that you face.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the sticking point here is her. If people are telling you that you should get help and try and make your marriage better or explore her feelings or whatever.. ignore them. because you can do all that until the day you die, and it won't matter a bit. Several people here are spot on in that SHE needs to do the heavy lifting in fixing things, because this is all about what is inside her mind, and her choices to nurture it or to change it. Despite what some movies might try to imply, you can't force or trick someone into seeing you as the 'love of their life'.

You need to understand that this happens all too often. Many, many times all throughout history has someone married someone else who was not the person they wish they really could have been with, because that person was 'safe', a 'good provider', or 'Plan B'. Sometimes, a person comes around and grows to put their spouse on the pedestal in their mind. More often than not they go their grave knowing they settled.

In your case there are a couple of additional factors - your wife acted on her thoughts and reached out to him. That moves things into the realm of an EA (at minimum). If that's going to be resolved, then she needs to follow the path back from that (get out of the fog, full disclosure, no contact, do the heavy lifting, etc).. all that in addition to the process of taking him down from the 'pedestal in her mind' and putting you up on it. Honestly, it's not likely that latter part will ever happen. There's a good chance she can do part 1, but not part 2. You have to look deep inside your self and ask "Can I live with that? Can i live with being #2 in her heart to him?" At least know for yourself, what your answers and actions will be. Multiple things are working against her replacing him with you in her mind. The first is inertia and history - she's known you for 20 years.. She knows exactly how human you are. She only has a couple years of history with him, and lots of time when he was myth and not human. During those 20 years she has probably made small comparisons and decisions in her mind about him and you, and what could have been and what wasn't. Think of it as 20 years of mental training and conditioning that has to be undone. If it happens at all it's going to take a long time, and it going to take some significant shaking her out of her comfort zone she's established over the last 20 years to do. And you're going to face the significant potential of not being told the truth about it's going (inside her head)... i.e. she'll tell you what she thinks you want to hear, because that will bring about peace and comfort in the home.

I'm speaking from experience here. I married someone that I shouldn't have... and I knew it at the time I got married, but went ahead anyway. I was young, dumb.. and well, beaten down to where I considered myself worthless. It was not a good marriage from the start, and I almost got the strength to end it when my first child came along, but I stuck it out longer, despite it being almost loveless (for me, not her given her wayward ways). During much of it, and even before I married, I constantly thought about the girl who 'got away'. It became a mental safety valve for me to escape the bad state of my marriage, and what I built up in my mind was rather impressive. It took a series of events I wouldn't wish on anyone, and a period of years of serious growing up and coming into my own for me to get over my lost love and move on. Today, as I single man, I know exactly where that gal from my past is, and that's she is single. And I have no, zero, nada, zip, desire to seek her out. I've moved on, and just in time to have met a girl so well matched to me, and to become the kind of man she was dreaming of. That is to say, this time around I got #1 and so did she. After almost 4 years, it's very clear there is no settling going on for either of us. That's what you thought you had, Charlie, and it has to be a pain that never stops hurting to know otherwise. 

I share that part of my story to lend credence to my assertion that the odds of her changing to the point where you are to her what she is to you are slim. Interestingly enough though, if it going to happen, it will probably take stress and chaos and turbulence in your lives to facilitate the change. When things are comfortable and secure, there is little motivation to change. Divorcing or separating and letting her go to him to see the reality of his life might be the only path that tears down her fantasy and leads back her heart to you. Of course, it is a path fought with danger and the chance she never comes back. Again, I ask you to ask yourself: "What can I live with for the rest of my life? Will I have regrets? Will I be proud of myself?"


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## RClawson

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @RCLawson - you are right on. I was/am the safe bet. Since you know how it feels - how do you communicate with your wife? For instance I seldom pull out the letter but I feel I have to as a reminder of the reality of my relationship is in that letter. So I pull out the letter two days ago - find you guys and start chatting about it. But when I see my wife - I can't hardly look at her b/c I know how she feels. Is that weird or what?


Charlie,

My situation is complex at best. My relationship and communication with my wife is quite strong now. This site has helped me through some issues. It has taken years to dull this pain. Know this. I love my wife period. If I would have known what I was walking into previous to our marriage I would not have done it. 

Here is the scenario. I was introduced to my wife by her ex. I did not know they had a dating history and had no clue they had a sexual history until after we were married. Her best friend is married to this guys brother. My wife's sister married his other brother. After we were married and I connected all the dots I became a bit uncomfortable. Everybody knows about the nature of their relationship. Evidently it was turbulent and very sexual. 

I guess with all the ties to family and friends I became a bit uncomfortable and sort of felt like the cuckold being dragged along for the ride. I was a bit baffled that we had a "friendship" with he and his wife. She deferred to him when we were together and I was a mess. I think I was trying to wrap my head around how I got in that position and struggling with how to cope and respect my wife and not believe I was "plan b". 

The best thing that ever happened to us was that we moved far away and became quite dependent on one another. At some point during this time her best friend and her husband were going to be coming through town and she invited them to stay with us. The old feelings came back and I told her I was tired of them being part of our lives and that I thought she was trying to hang on to the past. I told her I never wanted to hear his name and I did not care if I ever saw anyone connected to him again. She was numb and did not say anything. I think the message finally sunk home.

All along she tried to tell my that the sex meant nothing (right). I do know that he pushed her away many times and that when he needed to "get some" she was just a phone call away and she would always run to him. Her biggest regret? He ended it permanently before she did. 

Contrast her behavior regarding the only girlfriend I ever had. I was 19 never seriously dated anyone and met a terrific girl who just "loved" me and I mean that in the purest sense of the word. It was a very intimate relationship but never sexual. We both moved on with no regrets because we knew the future held different paths for us. I love her because she had so many qualities that I wanted in a wife and saw those in the one I actually married. 

About 10 years into our marriage I found a box of old letters from this girl. I was reading them and when my wife saw me she asked who they were from and became very irritated and insisted I burn them (I had a fired going). I did it immediately but inside I was in disbelief. I thought I am erasing the memory of a dear friend whose friendship was entirely innocent but I will do it because you are my wife but I will be putting up with the spector of your f%$& buddy for the rest of my life because of the close relationship you have with his sister in law.

So this is why he is always lurking. I guess I could absolutely demand she not see or talk to her best friend ever but it seems a bit extreme. But because of the electronic age I know they discuss him. Does she profess feelings for him? No. Does she share lurid thoughts about getting back together? Doubt it. All I know is that he will always be in her thoughts.

Case in point. A month ago we were in the part of town where she used to be single and date him. We were driving by a fast food place where I first met her and it was with him. I recalled that they were walking behind my and he had to have been playing grab ass with her or something by the sound of it. As we drove by that spot she recalled that moment and asked me if I remembered being there with her. I let her know I did and then she stated. Yes that was back in my ****ty period. So you tell me. Does he still lurk in the corners of her mind. Duh!

Charlie I am sorry for hijacking this thread. I am passionate about this subject. It is emotional torture and I know what you are going through. Do I want to lose my wife? Never. If I ever found out she was in contact with him again without my knowledge it would be a deal breaker because innocent or not I would not be mature enough to deal with the connection. 

Again I think you can make this work but it will take years for this agony to soften.


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## Laurae1967

I always think that people who pine about the "one who got away" have a problem with real, authentic intimacy. 

I read something recently in Psychology Today by a relationship researcher and it confirms my own experience - that when you give too much and don't take that much from your spouse, it creates an imbalance in the relationship. People who give more to a relationship are the ones who don't usually cheat, because giving creates a feeling of investment in the relationship.

So stop being giving to your wife and make her EARN your love and admiration. She is in love with another man? Fine, but that doesn't mean you need to kiss her ass and try to win her over. Just the opposite. Do a 180 on her and tell her that you aren't sure you want to stay in the marriage. Stop telling her ILY. Stop calling, texting, having sex, kissing, snuggling. Don't do any favors for her and don't initiate any conversations. If she feels you pulling away, and she loves you, she will begin to see what she is at risk of losing - you. She will start to value you more. And you need to increase your value in her eyes. It may stink to realize this, but it's true. Let her work to get you back.


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## Slingshot Charlie

@RClawson - sounds like we need to have a drink together!  
In my 'strategic' mind - I'm planning to leave...not divorce but to separate. As Laurae1967 said - she doesn't know how good she's got or she doesn't respect me as much as she should. This is something I'm contemplating since V-day 2010. We actually 'get along' great but I really don't know how to knowing what I know. 

This forum has helped me air out a lot. There have been several great comments and evaluations. I'll chime in later down the road but I appreciate everyone helping me...pretty cool stuff! 

Happy New Year to all that contributed and listen to me. 

SCC


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## RClawson

Slingshot Charlie said:


> @RClawson - sounds like we need to have a drink together!
> In my 'strategic' mind - I'm planning to leave...not divorce but to separate. As Laurae1967 said - she doesn't know how good she's got or she doesn't respect me as much as she should. This is something I'm contemplating since V-day 2010. We actually 'get along' great but I really don't know how to knowing what I know.
> 
> This forum has helped me air out a lot. There have been several great comments and evaluations. I'll chime in later down the road but I appreciate everyone helping me...pretty cool stuff!
> 
> Happy New Year to all that contributed and listen to me.
> 
> SCC


If I was a drinking man I would take you up on it. I like your plan. I believe it is a sound approach and should give your wife a bit of reality to consider. I honestly hope she takes the time to understand your commitment and what she would be giving up to chase a fleeting feeling.

Happy New Year to you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Your W is obsessed and has developed a neural pattern of obsession for 20+ years, to the point where she sent cards, emails, created situations where she could feed her obsession/delusion/fantasy, test the waters, etc. 

Even if you get the OM out of your marriage, your W still has a brain/heart connection that is prone to obsession and departure from reality (it's great to dream and fantasize BUT to also harness these into one's present life, not to draw energy away from it). 

My H and his OW had such a fantasy relationship going on, much like your W's with her guy. Even when my H was single, she kept on with him, I think she did believe that he still loved her only, and with good reason, because he was encouraging her all along to leave her H and to go with him, with her kids and all. I found out about all of this after...and is a reason why I did not like him emailing her after he committed to me. That is not just a friend, as you know.

Anyway, without therapy, your W is still going to be prone to obsession and departure from reality. You can put a past to rest and even laugh about how so much of her life energy and your marriage was deprived of this fertile mind and heart of hers, and it still survived nevertheless. Your marriage and your love is important to you. It is right of you to want to make sure that knowing what you know NOW, you are not wasting your love. It would be okay to love someone who is not capable of returning your love, but that is not what a marriage is supposed to be like. 

Over time, with therapy, you might come to a realization that it's like putting your love into a deep concrete well and capping it over, it can go nowhere and amount to nothing. If you value your love you might decide that while you would like to give it to her, it has a better chance of surviving and thriving elsewhere, being reflected and magnified and coming back to you and your family multiplied in a way you could never imagine. 

Have you thought of a separation? Not to think about being with anyone else, but to let your wife be alone with the fruits of her obsession, and to see how that settles with her? Without reality of your love and contribution to her day to day life and security, she might see how flimsy her constructed world is, and decide to work on it to make sentiment and existence the same. 

I gave up with my husband. I really believe he married me because he could not get with this other woman. He lied to me for 4 years about his contact with her. It only ended because I intervened. And he refused individual therapy. He seems to hate me because now he is left with nothing of the fantasy, just reality and he is not used to that. I guess he had some issues and when he was young he did a lot of drugs and alcohol and now he is into risky stuff like motorcycling, ice and rock climbing, etc. Because of what he did to me (the lies plus other stuff) he cannot believe that I could love him or want to stay married to him. He says that I don't want to trust him. He says I only want his money. Given what he did to me, and how others have treated him in his past, that is a reasonable conclusion for him to reach. He cannot accept love and forgiveness because he doesn't think that he deserves it. While he was off in a fantasy world, he let reality crumble, thinking that he could sustain it with frosting. Like a cardboard cake in a bakery display window. I never wanted the frosting, but because that is what he was giving me, he can't understand that what I wanted was something else entirely. Not the decoration and embellishments, but just a standard biscuit. 

Your W has a lot of work to do on herself and it won't be pretty. Reality is a big adjustment for someone who has been out to lunch for so long. She isn't going to trust you, because of what she did. And sometimes people think a person who would stay with them after that kind of transgression, isn't worth having in the first place. These kind of people create their own kind of h*ll on earth. If you can thrive in such a place, or are willing to wait it out and find a way to sustain yourself and put up with what is to come, you're a much better person than I am. I could not hold up to the continued roller coaster. My H could not hold up to the trust-building process. He also refused to go to therapy, and has abusive patterns. I think that anyone who can practice deceit during a marriage has abusive patterns. 

I was the one who asked how she treats you, and you said well, and gave as example things from the past, and how she acts toward children, but really is she in touch with your feelings, or does she listen to them only as a way to gauge whether you are on board with her or not, in terms of security? My H only seemed to check in with me when he was feeling insecure, and wanted to make sure he still had a hold on me. One of the ways he did this was by taking advantage of my physical needs, like in bed. One night I realized he wasn't even really paying attention to me. I had to stop to take off a necklace and lost a pendant and he kept right on doing what he was doing, not even noticing I was paying no attention to him. That was really a huge wake-up call for me, it jolted me back into what was what, and put some other types of behavior of his into perspective. Some people are just not there, they pretend to be there, but they are not. They put you to all kinds of tests to see how much you will take and still be there, because they need someone to be grounded in reality in order to delve into their fantasy life. That's unbalanced and wrong use of your spouse. A marriage cannot survive this kind of behavior.


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## Deejo

Laurae1967 said:


> So stop being giving to your wife and make her EARN your love and admiration. She is in love with another man? Fine, but that doesn't mean you need to kiss her ass and try to win her over. Just the opposite. Do a 180 on her and tell her that you aren't sure you want to stay in the marriage. Stop telling her ILY. Stop calling, texting, having sex, kissing, snuggling. Don't do any favors for her and don't initiate any conversations. If she feels you pulling away, and she loves you, she will begin to see what she is at risk of losing - you. She will start to value you more. And you need to increase your value in her eyes. It may stink to realize this, but it's true. Let her work to get you back.


You obviously don't want to leave your wife. But I would like to hope that neither would you simply choose to accept the circumstances as they are. You can't get rid of the other man, because as we discussed, he really doesn't exist. She is infatuated with an idea. But the state of YOUR relationship directly impacts how pervasive her fantasies are. Again, Laurae used the correct phrase. Your wife is basing the notion of a perfect, loving, relationship off of a cognitive distortion.

If you do anything, seriously consider Laurae's suggestion. You can get more information from this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

If the notion of doing so makes you uncomfortable ... good. That would be a strong indication that you ARE giving much too much of yourself to someone that does not truly appreciate the gift.


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## R.J.

Wow, that's so sad. It's so unfair too. I'm so sorry you found that. I can only imagine how much it must hurt you.
I'm not really sure what you can do. If she says she loves you and wants to only be with you, then why did she write the letter to begin with? Why was it so important to confess her love to the ex when she's so in love with you? I'm not saying that her feelings for you aren't true, but these are the things that she needs to make sure you understand so that you can heal.
I think you can heal from this. It's going to take a while and a lot of effort on her part to ensure you that emotionally she's only with you. I think you need to understand why she felt the need to reach out to the ex. What's lacking in her life that made her want to go there? I seriously don't believe that if a person is completely satisfied that they'd compromise the present by reverting to the past (which obviously didn’t work out). Something is going on with her and you need to understand that too.
Again, I can't express how deeply sorry I am for you finding that letter, but I do sincerely hope that you guys work it out for the better.


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## akira1

Most wives would never be so honest as to tell their husbands these deep feelings.

However, things such as a letter hurt the other spouse so much more than if the wife was honest in the first place.


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## Stonewall

Slingshot Charlie said:


> 38m3kids - I know this may sound goofy and strange...but I think I could handle her having a one night stand after too many drinks better than I'm handling this. As a believer - I pray for wisdom and strength right?? Dude - this is tough one. You are always thinking - 'Gee I wonder if she's thinking of EX??'



I've always felt the same way Charlie. I could forgive a momentary indiscretion like that and move forward but the connotations of that letter go much deeper. PA is bad enough but giving her heart away is far worse to me. I don't think I could proceed with that knowledge. I feel for you dude. I really do.


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## Meatpuppet

Charlie, please keep us posted as to what happens. This situation happening to guys like you is one of life's greatest injustices

I'm going to reserve my feelings as they're...not Biblical...but I'm curious to know how you end up! I _will_ say what many others have said here: don't ignore this! It's just going to get worse...


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## Dexter Morgan

Slingshot Charlie said:


> My wife of 20+ yrs wrote a 5 page letter to her high school/college boyfriend that lives 1500 miles away. They are not having an affair - I checked all that out. He never got the letter b/c I found it and questioned her about before she mailed it.
> 
> She says in the letter that she loved me for the man, christian, husband and father I am - but in the depths of her heart she'll always love him (ex boyfriend). She also writes that she'll never be able to give herself to me 'totally' b/c she still loves him.
> 
> Later in the letter she writes that she knows they'll "most likely" never be together on earth but can spend eternity together in heaven.
> 
> I don't care who you are - that hurts. She apologized for hurting me and the explanation she has is that she does love him for their 'moment in time' together but she 'wants to be with me' and that she really loves me.
> 
> The way I look at it - there is nothing I can do - it is what it is. I can't change her. I haven't done anything so there's nothing I can do with my part of the relationship. It just hurts knowing I'm sleeping with someone that really loves somebody else.
> 
> The ex-boyfriend doesn't even know she has these feelings as they don't talk - so there's nothing he can do and I'm sure wouldn't want to get involved. I guess I'm looking for answers of how to 'live with my situation'.
> 
> thanks,
> SSC
> 
> Where I grew up - you can't swing a baseball bat from both sides of the plate at once. How in world can a woman love TWO people!


Affair or not, I think I'd have to divorce a woman that says she will never truly be mine because her heart will always belong to another, and actually wrote out a letter to the guy.

But thats just me.

If you decide to stay with her, then you'll just have to be content being 2nd in her heart, and also knowing that if the moment presented itself, she'd cheat on you.


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## Chaparral

Gosh, Dex is advising immediate divorce again. Who'd a thunk it?


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## tacoma

chapparal said:


> Gosh, Dex is advising immediate divorce again. Who'd a thunk it?


Yeah but he has a point.

Some of us simply could never overcome the connotations of the content of that letter.

I couldn`t spend my life with a woman who I "knew" thought of me as plan "B" and after reading it in her handwriting I don`t know how it could ever be made to go away.


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## AFEH

chapparal said:


> Gosh, Dex is advising immediate divorce again. Who'd a thunk it?


He obviously has a high opinion of himself and from what I’ve read in his postings it’s warranted. It means he has good self-esteem and good-self respect.



All you need to do is ask yourself the question “Why on earth would I invest so much in a woman who is so very obviously in love with another man?”.

That’s being “second best” in probably the only life role in the world where a man should be number one: in his wife’s heart, body, soul, spirit and affections.


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## Mrs. T

Slingshot Charlie said:


> You know everybody goes nuts when wife or hubby has sex with somebody else and lawyer's up. What is wild about this is - I actually read what she really feels! How many folks out there really know what their spouses 'really' feel?? I'm not into myself and I don't feel sorry for myself - that's why I haven't told anyone but found this forum for sharing it to see what others thought.
> 
> Believe me - it's hard. Last night she kissed me good night in bed and said 'I love you'. I almost said 'really...really??'.


I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few comments but l feel the need to share this with you. I went through something similar to your wife a few years ago. I had just turned 46 and my age was starting to bother me. We women have a lot of changes going on at menopause...hormone changes, metabolism changes, we begin to look in the mirror and see our mother staring back at us...not a good time for a woman. Anyway, I was feeling blue about getting older and got out the yearbooks and started remembering old friends, fun times and old loves. There was a boy in high school that I was head over heels for and we dated for almost a year when my parents decided to sell their house and move to another city, too far for me to ever see him. I was devastated. We kept in touch for a while but we were young and eventually met others and moved on, but I always wondered about him. He went into the army after school and from there relocated to another state. I never forgot him. I decided to try to find him. I guess maybe I thought finding him would bring back some of my lost youth. I did end up finding him and like me age had taken it course. He was balding, overweight and I wouldn't have recognized him on the street but we reminisced and laughed about the good old days and when we parted I realised the only feelings I had for the man were friendship but I would always be in love with the boy in my memories. The point I'm trying to make is that while I hold on to those memories and those feelings I am deeply in love with my husband. Perhaps your wife is just hanging on to a memory, maybe thinking about him makes her feel young again.


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## Dexter Morgan

chapparal said:


> Gosh, Dex is advising immediate divorce again. Who'd a thunk it?


Geez, staying married to someone who will forever be in love with someone else? Who woulda thunk it:slap:


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## Dexter Morgan

AFEH said:


> He obviously has a high opinion of himself and from what I’ve read in his postings it’s warranted. It means he has good self-esteem and good-self respect.
> 
> 
> 
> All you need to do is ask yourself the question “Why on earth would I invest so much in a woman who is so very obviously in love with another man?”.
> 
> That’s being “second best” in probably the only life role in the world where a man should be number one: in his wife’s heart, body, soul, spirit and affections.


Not a high opinion of myself at all. I do think I, and everyone else, deserves better than to be 2nd best to anyone. Well, anyone but cheaters, OW and OM.


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## Jellybeans

OP hasn't been back since last year. Hope he's doing ok.


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