# Vacation and money struggle



## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Hello. Thank you for reading this and for support. I've been reading other posts and there are some really smart and helpful words and ideas out there.

Here's the problem: 8 years ago we purchased a cabin with my husband's brother's family. It is part of a condo association with 7 other cabins. Our cabin is small, but very quaint and old and close to the lake. My husband's brother is controlling, my husband is very passive. At the time of the purchase I didn't know the brother all that well, but trusted my husband Jon.

The main reason I was on board was that the brother Paul said we would treat it like a time-share and quote "take your stuff home with you".

Well Paul's wife has proceeded to fill up the cabin with her families belongings while we take our stuff back home with us. this has gone on for 8 years. I don't like staying there when half of the place is filled up with toys and clothes. And I don't feel like I could invite our friends, which was our plan.

Jon is too passive to say anything and I haven't gone there for 2 summers now while Jon goes by himself. We are paying $650.00 month for this place which is only a summer cabin. Paul does not contribute to things that do not benefit his family. He bought a new boat, but won't help pay to replace 30 year old carpet.

This is really affecting my marriage because Jon will not straighten it out. He doesn't seem to get that we are a team and a good marriage is one where you enjoy you life together. 

Discussion?


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

One more thing: Jon says he can't talk to Paul because it brings up feelings of their deceased parents. I don't understand that.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think this is a good time for counseling. It's hard to make the decision to go to counseling because people think it's a sign that things are somehow really bad--but the idea is to go before they are really bad, which not enough people (myself included) are willing to do. Anyway, present the idea as "we need someone to help us resolve this and in getting that help, we will learn more about how to resolve conflicts that might arise later." 

Anything affecting your marriage deserves attention if you want to stay married. Counseling is one form or attention to give a marriage. 

I hope you will consider it. While there is no "right or wrong," there are clearly things that could help, and your H needs help addressing issues with his brother--so a third party to guide the two of you through this sounds reasonable.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Lila> the money comes from our marital money. And yes I think affects our living situation. We need things at home, badly, that we cannot afford. He drives a beat up old truck and talks a lot about wanting a newer one.
The reason I've stayed home the last 2 summers is because it costs quite a bit to travel there and stay for a couple days. I chose to hoard my money a little for emergencies.
He seems more concerned about keeping this afloat for his younger brother and his 3 kids than us. I don't think his brother could afford it. Actually, he couldn't have purchased it in the first place without using our paid half for his collateral.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

That sucks!

You should speak to your husband's family yourself since he won't.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

I tried once and he blew up at me. Not sure why. When I asked him sincerely what the problem was, he said "you". Not sure what he meant.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

So what he blows up at you?!

You have feelings and rights too ya know!

He's passive with his brother but not with you?

Tell him to go blow up at his unfair brother!

He sounds like a bully to you


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

His brother blew up at me!
At that time I took all the paperwork to an attorney and had him go through it with a fine-toothed comb. Something didn't feel right.
We had to sign Paul's mortgage because we were his collateral. I think he was worried I would change my mind on the whole deal so he downplayed that we were signing something. He has been up to date on his payments to the bank. If he can't pay it could fall on us.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

His brother blew up at you!

So blow up back at him!

Why does he get to put all his things in the house and you don't?

Tell him your bringing your stuff to the house and packing up some of his. Tell him that you each pay the same amount you are each on the mortgage so you get equal space for your things.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Sandie...you got that right!

The thing is, Jon backs him up! So does the whole condo association (what are they supposed to do with 3 kids? Haul all that stuff back and forth?)

I'm also a little more subtle.

I'm to the point where I don't give a ****, I think, anymore.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If your husband lacks a backbone, he should not be allowed to make decision that impact the both of you. Your husband is like my mother, and people take advantage of her while she leaves it up to me to clean her messes.

She will end up broke, and when she needed money for her medical bills, the friends and family that owed her will make excuses for why not they could not return the money. I made the issues public, and told people they know what the situation was, and what do you know, they had the money after all.

Eventually, I help my mother stop being codependent, and trusting of people, even family.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Mr. F. Very good reply. I am worried about the financial consequences of dealing with his brother, whom, by they way is a financial planner!

Jon is a fragile person so I am trying not to mess his life up anymore. But his brother is just out for himself.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

When you go there push all their stuff somewhere out of the way and leave it there!

Bring some of your own stuff too!

Of course you care!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your husband is weak. Weak men make bad husbands.


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

How can a financial planner not be able to afford a mortgage on a summer cabin? Is he outrageous with his spending habits?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Wait: did I grt it right: you have signed the collateral on brother's mortgage without knowing it????

Your husband is not as sweet as uou show him. After all he has no problem lashing out at you. 

Either start using the cabin, bring your stuff in and treat it as your place, the way they do - after all it''s all family. Actually it could lower thecost if you agree on keeping things there and sharing them. Who needs two sets of pots?

Or try to get out of the deal. Check the options. This is not small money for something you do not use.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

The husband did not lash out the husbands brother did!

I already said that too they should bring their stuff to the cabin too!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If your husband does not have the ability to say no, tell him that you will make decisions that is in the best interest of the family. Do this in a calm, non-accusatory manner. Go through the list of what the needs of the family is. Explain that his responsibility should be the welfare and needs of the family, before his brother needs a cabin.

Ask him to take the time to consider the situation, and how it is more of his brother's cabin than a shared one.

State that he has more say on what happens with the cabin, than the two of you. Tone of voice is important. If someone who feels attack, will get defensive or attack back even though it may be irrational.

Also, give him the consequences if his brother stops paying or has the ability to pay, what his solution would be. The consequences does not fall on him alone, but his family. If he does not answer, do not get angry and just leave it at that. He knows the issues, and let him stew in those thoughts. Points come across better when one shows poise and composure. I would say play off his emotions, but that could only occur if there is some common emotions to invoke, and he sounds very passive. His passivity is what allowed him to be used and then stepped on.

I am sure he has good qualities. But why does he not respect himself enough is something he needs to find an answer for. Reality is a cold place, things do not operate on a fair and balance world.

You need to be the leader of the family if you are not so already. You have to adapt to what the situation is. It is unfair that you have to be the one to stand up for him, but those are the cards you were dealt with. You have to make up for what your husband lacks. While doing so, encourage him to seek help. He may be a conflict avoider, and this issue may go beyond the cabin. Usually marriage with conflict avoidance never get the issues resolved, and it usually leads to divorce. So as your navigating through this issue, you need to figure out if you can live like this or not. If he does not improve his passivity, can you take the helm and not focus on that area of his persona?


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## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

Has your husband always been so conflict-avoidant with his brother? What is his family history like?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Midlage said* :We are paying* $650.00 month *for this place which is only a summer cabin. ....
> 
> the money comes from our marital money. And yes I think affects our living situation. *We need things at home, badly, that we cannot afford. He drives a beat up old truck and talks a lot about wanting a newer one.....*
> 
> ...


 This is an AWFUL AWFUL situation to have entered into .. that's a whole lot of money to be throwing away when you never even visit the place...

I have to wonder what was wrong with this lawyer to NOT warn you to enter into something like this..aren't they supposed to be advisories? (Probably Paul's advisory -I take it)

I can't even IMAGINE signing anything where ...if another default's, it will fall on Me & my H.... doesn't matter if it is family.. you just don't do things like that.. too many people get lazy & take advantage of others, & really you never know what may come, they could divorce, anything....His brother knew he could get away with this.. what a shame.... 

My Husband is more passive over me. I am kinda like the bull dog between us..

But really... both of you should have been kicking & screaming -not signing on that dotted line. 

We had a situation yrs ago where my H's dad was ready to lend $$ to buy his sisters house ....but we had to hand over thousands to his sister & H ...*all on handshake*...it was a little complicated but it saved us closing costs....... I wanted legal papers drawn up.. or it wasn't going to happen..I was NOT at all comfortable with that .... I think my H would have trusted his family -but again.. I was the Bull dog, his dad got mad at me.. but he got over it.. I know we did the right thing protecting ourselves...

Your #1 problem is getting your H united with you -to take a stand against his Brother.. 

Why does he protect him so much?? .. you said he's driving a beat up old truck & would love to get a new one..imagine what freeing up $650 A MONTH can bring to your lives.. 

He doesn't care you never even visit this place, what a waste of $$ , like flushing it down the toilet, while his family scrapes by... Seems hard to imagine anyone taking that position.. unless one had $$ to burn. 

How often does this brother & him hang out? Are they really close ? If this is the case, it will make more sense.. but still his brother should understand (if he has any decency) that you'd want to sell your share.. and get out.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Sandie said:


> The husband did not lash out the husbands brother did!
> 
> I already said that too they should bring their stuff to the cabin too!


he did - when she protested, he told her in a not nice way that she was the problem. Disrespectful considering that this is also her money, he basically uses to support his brother's vacation place.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

WandaJ it was the brother who did not the husband!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Midlage said:


> Mr. F. Very good reply. I am worried about the financial consequences of dealing with his brother, whom, by they way is a financial planner!
> 
> Jon is a fragile person so I am trying not to mess his life up anymore. But his brother is just out for himself.


I'm really sorry you are going through this. The time has come for you to tell your husband you are very concerned about the financial well being of the family and if he doesn't deal with this, you will. Start bringing all kinds of stuff and leave it there just like they are doing, also go back to the lawyer and see if there's a way to get out of being the brother's collateral.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Midlage said:


> Sandie...you got that right!
> 
> The thing is, Jon backs him up! So does the whole condo association (what are they supposed to do with 3 kids? Haul all that stuff back and forth?)
> 
> ...


This is the post that struck me the most. It seems that it doesn't matter that your husband has a weak backbone no one sees the issue with this like you do. This sounds like it was a bad deal from the start but laid with good intentions. Since you can't talk to the brother can you talk to his wife about your concerns and work it from that angle?


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Thank you so much for the feedback!!
Paul tricked us into signing the mortgage. He literally had it upside down on his desk and somewhat covered the top half and held onto it while we signed! This was after we drove 70 miles to sign it.
I asked him for a copy so I could read it on the way home and that was when I discovered it was his mortgage and that we had to sign it in order for him to get his loan. I really don't think he would stick us intentionally with his payments, but life happens! His little girl needs $10,000.00 dental implants because several of her teeth permanent teeth did not grow in. I do not trust him. His office is in the bank that gave him the loan (no money down-us for collateral)
I know their family was not rich. Paul is the baby and their mom supported him into his mid twenties. 
I think the family had a lot of issues, we didn't grow up in the same town.
My husband is weak. I really like Mr. Fisty's ideas about me having to be in charge now.
I've been dragging my feet on the whole thing because of Jon and not wanting to hurt him. The brother's are not close. Jon would like to be, but Paul doesn't have much time for him.
I wish I could forcefully buy Paul out. I would like Jon to have this place to go whether or not I go with him. He needs and deserves it.
I wish there was a way I could do that!


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

You have to get out of this financial mess. First, go speak with a real estate attorney, taking the deed and mortgage papers with you, to see how the house is owned (jointly with rights of survivorship, tenants in common, etc.). Also, see if *YOUR* name is on the deed. Then take all of this and go see a divorce attorney to see what would happen should you divorce. You need to see both types of attorneys to see if you (alone) can force a sale. If you can, *do it*. 

His brother means more to your husband than you do. It seems you are just a source of income so his brother's family can have nice vacations. Separate your money and earnings from H's, putting them in another bank under *ONLY *your name. Take half of any money in any accounts as well. Continue your usual contributions to the running of your household but *NOT* a dime more. Refuse to contribute to his brother's vacation house. If H says there isn't enough money for both, Oh, well, sell the vacation house.

Insist your H go to MC with you. But *NOT* one of those _happy-families-at-all-costs_ type of counselor. If your H won't back you and start putting you first, stop being his financial resource for his brother's family's vacations and force the sale. A real estate attorney can handle this. It may come down to a divorce attorney handling it as well. As a PP said, "weak men make bad husbands." However, it seems your H is weak with everyone but you. To you he is a bully. Stand up to all of them.

IamSomebody


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

It is a joint tenant deal. I agree I have to get out. I am going to ask Paul to re-do his mortgage and use something else for collateral and if he doesn't I will go to an attorney. I have separated some household expenses already. If we survive this I will insist on a written "fair" cabin use arrangement.
And Sandi...for you, if I go I will pack up some of their stuff and store it in the boat house. It's going to be 50/50 from now on.
Their kids don't need 3 jackets apiece hanging on a hook in the bedroom. That's just a fraction of their mess. Under the bed..filled with toys! I love kids and toys too, but not there.
Thanks all...keep you posted!


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Hello writers/friends.

Here is an update on my situation.
My husband made a lunch date with his brother Paul to find out how close he is to refinancing and taking us off his mortgage. I wanted to be there, but it was arranged without me.
Turns out he is nowhere near refinancing. He had to buy a new vehicle for his wife and his daughter now needs braces before her dental implants.
Jon came home upset and told me nothing!!
He did have the 7 year payment history printout.
I then wrote a letter to the bank president and asked for clarification in writing about the consequences if Paul doesn't pay the monthly payment of $180.00. I will be getting those in writing. I think I can live with this for now, but I don't think I trust Paul. Even the bank president was surprised that Paul tricked us into the signing.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Monthly payment of $180? I thought you said you were paying $650 a month? 

IF you want your h to have this place, and to enjoy it..... then figure out a way to deal with the actual problem, which is their stuff. Let go of things that are under the bed. Who cares what is stored under the bed while on vacation? How does that effect your enjoyment of the place? Keep that question in mind while you decide how to keep the place "enjoyable". Maybe bring a few of those rubbermaid bins up, pack up the obvious kid stuff so that you can invite friends to join you. Store the stuff in closets or the boathouse. 

You have options. Seems like first you have to decide what YOU WANT.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Hi Sunny, I have decided, I don't want it. His brother has a high-conflict personality and cannot be trusted. We pay $650.00 for 4 more years and Paul pays $180.00 for 22 more years. Paul couldn't have purchased it without our equity which he did behind our back. The kid stuff bothers me a lot because it is excessive and the original agreement was to take your stuff back home. We were going to use the entire 475 ft. 2 bedroom cabin when we stayed there and invite friends. Now we are limited to half of that. They set up a room permanently for the summer so it's hard for us to have guests. The other room that we've used gets emptied when we leave so they get to use the entire cabin for their 3 kids and themselves.
I don't want it. The problem is, then Paul cannot afford it either - he needs our equity. I get nervous when someone lives so close to the edge financially. Paul made agreements with my husband behind my back to be bailed out by us if he can't afford his $180.00. The whole things just stinks!


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

I don't mind at all if Jon goes alone. There are a lot of people in the association to hang around with. It's very cramped and Paul doesn't pitch in for upgrades because obviously he can't afford it. I think this is an okay compromise for now. I just don't agree with helping Paul with his payments! So totally out of the question. He's 42 and had handouts his whole life.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

July 7, Jon is at the cabin again for the 5th time this summer. Paul spent the 4th there with a group of friends and his family, but does not ask us if it's okay.On his way home Paul texted Jon and told him his pontoon wasn't running and that he broke his boat lift. He manipulated Jon into saying he would "look" at it. I snapped! I called Paul back and told him Jon was not a free boat mechanic; I saw this coming and Jon and I made an agreement 6 years ago that Jon would NOT fix his boat. Paul said he didn't ask him (which is true) but he did manipulate him. Paul cannot fix anything - another reason they used our equity for their mortgage.
We fought a lot last night about this situation and Jon just doesn't see the problem. I've been asking Jon to bring home my possessions, from the cabin, each time he visits. So far I've been to weak and lost to do anything! Still seeing a counselor though. I know I can never go there. I feel like I hate his brother. I know that's terrible, but I do.
I've thought about reserving the cabin for myself and when I'm there stashing their stuff in storage.
Through all of this I have learned that Jon is "slow". I really believe he doesn't get it - which hurts. I cannot allow this to ruin my life though. I am so angry and resentful of his brother! I hate that I feel like this, but I just want to get him. I feel like there's never any chance of reconciliation with him.


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

The only way to get out of this financially is divorce. I would like some legal advice....is there anyway to force Paul to get a new mortgage and not get divorced?


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Midlage said:


> The only way to get out of this financially is divorce. I would like some legal advice....is there anyway to force Paul to get a new mortgage and not get divorced?


Yes, you were told to speak with a divorce attorney and a real estate attorney (*NEVER* one who does both or a general practice attorney as they won't know enough). Since you signed everything, you are legally entitled to copies of everything. If your husband and BIL refuse to provide them, an attorney can easily get them by filing the appropriate paperwork.

If your name is on the deed, you can force a sale. Then BIL would either buy you out, refinance or sell. Don't expect to get all the money you poured into it back, certainly not without a shark-like attorney. Don't trust a thing your husband or BIL say. If they get angry with you, too bad, so sad. They both lied to you.

Your BIL could lose his financial planner certification if you file a complaint against him for lying to you and the fraud he and your husband committed against you.

You to to wise up and stop believing what everyone tells you.

IamSomebody


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## Midlage (Apr 1, 2015)

Whoa! I like that. File a complaint against BIL. I think I will go the real estate attorney route. I know I need to wise up, it's true. Thank you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The problem is, your husband for some reason is terrified of upsetting his brother. If I had to guess, his brother terrorized him, growing up, being the stronger person. My H's little brother did that to my H and my H STILL can't stand up to him.

There IS no solution here that your H will agree to. So divorcing is likely the only way you, personally, can get out of this situation. My guess is that, eventually, you will lose all your love for your H by watching him be a weakling, and you'll end up divorcing anyway.

Maybe you could tell him that.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Wow, hard situation. I want to know which is more important to you, getting yourself out of this financial mess or staying married to your husband? Do you hate this situation so much that you would rather lose your marriage to get out of it or do you love your husband and marriage so much that you prefer not to lose that? If you really care the most about untying yourself financially than the aggressive route is a good option. If you would hate to lose your intimacy with your husband and possibly end up in divorce, then I would strongly advise against the aggressive, take-care-of-it-yourself route. That will make your husband resent you and prevent him from realizing how much HE hates the situation his brother has put you both in. The more aggressive you are the more passive/defensive your husband will be. If you back off I'm sure your husband will realize in time how much he hates the situation and will step up to take care of it himself. Keep showing your husband trust and respect and he will want to take care of his family's needs first and foremost. The more aggressive and controlling you are, the more passive he will be. You need to leave a void so that he will step in to take care of it. It may not be as fast as you want it, but the question is what do you want more, this situation resolved now, or a happy marriage? It's frustrating that you have to deal with this but taking care of it yourself, when it involves your husband's family, is going to deeply damage your relationship with your husband. Consider the big picture and what results you really what more. If this situation does bother you so much that you would rather risk your and H's relationship, then do get yourself out of it. If not, step down and let him handle it whatever way he chooses.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your husband is dysfunctional, so keep that in mind when dealing with him. Your husband fears his brothers reaction more than he respects you and your opinions, another thing to keep in mind. Besides you getting angry, what consequences has your husband suffered for his actions and short sightedness?

You need to detach and protect yourself first and foremost. If your husband is going to drag the family finance down the drain so his brother can have a more convenient life, you have to be the leader and take charge. You cannot be afraid to lose your husband, and protecting the children's future should come first before his ego. You should be more angry that his ego and insecurities has come before the well-being of the family.

Since he lacks the strength to do something, that unfortunately lands into your hands. Life is not fair, and your husband's issues has brought your family to this point, and his mess is now yours to deal with.

Love and affection does not stop one from being dysfunctional. The children did not stop his poor actions from happening even though he loves his children. His love is not protecting their future.

And his brother will continue using him and his brother has no intention of stopping when it benefits him. How can he deal with something when he does not acknowledge that he is dysfunctional? If he sees nothing wrong, then there is nothing to deal with. So you need to find out if he is willing to change to save the family, and in the mean time, take actions of your own because your husband lacks the strength to do what needs to be done, and is adversely affecting the family. Hard to respect someone when they allow another to walk all over them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Since my H is a weakling like your H (with everyone, not just his brother), in many situations, I have told him 'make me your villain; I don't care what they think of me. Just tell them that your wife says ABC has to happen and, well, happy wife happy life.'

So he's gone to people to whom he was afraid to stand up and said 'my wife said I either do ABC or she's divorcing me; you understand, right? Sorry, but I gotta do this.'

Maybe that will work for you.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Agree completely with CC and Mr. Fisty. I am sorry that you find yourself in such a tough situation. 

Forget about moving their stuff out or around and your stuff in. This would be a meaningless waste of time to engage in such a power struggle. No one will win, it will lead to more nasty conflict, and you will wind up exactly where you are now. 

What you need to do is completely disengage your family's finances from your BIL's selfish motives. With or without your husband. And it may come to that. 

No way would I commit $15,600 of my family's hard earned money to this jerk's vacation home. The thing is, this is about more than the money. if you don't disengage, this kind of thing will keep happening to your family. 

Unfortunately, you are going to have to step up to lead this effort and then provide the leadership for your family's financial security. THIS conflict will be well worth the effort. 

Meet with the lawyers before you make any decisions. This will give you the confidence to stay focused as you steer through the rough waters ahead. 

You are doing well and learning fast. Stay strong.


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