# Has Swedish feminism gone too far?



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Has Swedish feminism gone too far? - YouTube

Comments?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

_" All movements go too far."_
Bertrand Russell.

How do you know that feminism and the gender equality movement in this case reported in the vid , went way too far?

When it is required _by law_ , that men should sit on toilets to urinate , because men tend to be messy when peeing.
Common sense tells me that if I make a mess its my responsibility to clean it. I shouldn't be forced by law to pee in a certain position , because of gender equality. If that was fair and logical, then it can also be legal to demand that women pee standing up, so that they could be equal to men , or men won't feel * inferior * to them.

_" All movements go too far."_

From my observation , much of what is taking place in this particular dialogue is set in politics.
It all comes down to one gender having power at the expense of another, when in reality there is EQUAL opportunity and room for both.
Not that anything is wrong with politics , but people should have the right to choose whether they accept this type of politics or they reject it without being ostracized for their choice.
I think its called _" freedom of choice."_

Thank goodness the feminism , ever since the 70's in our country, has always been and is different, _very different._ The feminist here struggle for empowerment of women . The assumption being that men and women are born equal.

The problem in that news clip is that the assumption is the men and women are the same.
Therin lies the problem and the route to mass confusion .
In the end , the children, especially the girls will suffer.

_" All movements go too far."_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> Has Swedish feminism gone too far? - YouTube
> 
> Comments?


My goodness, whether little boys stand or sit to pee is now a political issue? 

Passing a law trying to make men pee sitting down will only cause them all to pee standing up just to make a point that they can pee however they choose. All they need do is close the door in the face of the pee-police. :rofl:

There are nuts in this world. They do not represent anyone but themselves.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

How is this any different from that women are denied _by law_ the right to have abortion?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

camillaj said:


> How is this any different from that women are denied _by law_ the right to have abortion?


Peeing is a natural function that everyone must do to live.

Abortions are a choice.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Mostly what I've read about it was hygiene and prostate issues (that was what the man who proposed the idea anyway) but it's a idiotic idea for two reasons,
1. If that was what made a toilet hygienic women's toilets would be spotless and they're not.
2. Most importantly try to ban people from going to the toilet as they choose is massively controlling and imbecilic (and impossible).
I get the guy was pissed of his kids school tried to force his son to pee standing up when he didn't want to was wrong, but now he is trying to dictate to the whole country how to pee.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Peeing is a natural function that everyone must do to live.
> 
> Abortions are a choice.


Men have to sit when they do the big one.

Abortion is not a choice if it's taken away like the standing pee; eventually no different situation.

Anyway, I don't really see the connection with feminism?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

camillaj said:


> Men have to sit when they do the big one.
> 
> Abortion is not a choice if it's taken away like the standing pee; eventually no different situation.


You asked that people not turn your thread about the rape into an abortion thread. This thread has nothing to do with abortion. If you want a thread on abortion then start a thread on abortion.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Just trying how this works here...

I repeat, I don't see the connection with feminism like TiggyBlue posted the suggestion was made by a male politician because he thought his son was mistreated at school.

What about when men have to poo. They need to sit like women, no?

To make clear I don't agree with the suggestion I think it's silly but nothing to do with feminism.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Ludicrous! However, this is a male politician fighting for his son's right to sit down to pee?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

camillaj said:


> Just trying how this works here...
> 
> I repeat, I don't see the connection with feminism like TiggyBlue posted the suggestion was made by a male politician because he thought his son was mistreated at school.
> 
> ...


You are right that the man's campaign to pass a law that all males have to pee sitting down has nothing to do with feminism. It's inclusion in this film is a very common tactic for getting emotional reaction out of people. 

Here's the formula:

1) a short bit about how women are doing well professionally and academically in Sweden. This puts the idea that it's all about feminism in the minds of the viewer.

2) Then it switches to a silly man who wants to get a law passed making it illegal for men to stand and pee. Has nothing to do with feminism, but most viewers have the context of feminism in their head so they take it as a feminist plot.

3) then they switch to a very reasonable woman who says feminism is getting ridiculous.

4) now they switch to their real target... a school that is attempting to teach gender neutrality. The viewer still has the ridiculous pee law in their mind .. so now the school becomes lumped with the stupid pee law. But they have nothing to do with each other.

The video is propaganda and uses some very strong propaganda tools.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Ludicrous! However, this is a male politician fighting for his son's right to sit down to pee?


There are quite a few males who are either feminist or identify with the feminist causes in their country.

In our country, male trade unionist often support feminist causes. They are Marxist leaning hence the connection. 
An example I particularly remember was when domestic workers wanted to for themselves into a union , because of exploitation and abuses. They were really a small group and most of them were foreigners from poorer countries. A feminist group took up their cause and they got a massive boost from one of the larger trade unions , a male dominated union. They absorbed them within their ranks , lobbied the government on their behalf and they were able to get recognition.
There are now laws stating that domestic workers have same claims to the rights of other unionised workers in our country.

Known feminist often take up causes that are related to injustices metered out to men. All male groups are now being formed , because of apparent biases in laws regarding divorce and child custody. But it takes time to get recognition. I have seen known feminist activist lobbying on behalf of these groups.

However in this vid posted, that law is a really stupid one.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You are right that the man's campaign to pass a law that all males have to pee sitting down has nothing to do with feminism. It's inclusion in this film is a very common tactic for getting emotional reaction out of people.
> 
> Here's the formula:
> 
> ...


You forgot the part where the woman in the school said that the kids are being confused.

Yes ,
I agree ,I just looked at it again.
After critical analysis , it does piece remotely related stuff and use innuendo to come up with a sizzling soundbyte.

I have also seen this manipulation at work both here in our local media and also on TAM


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

This is how it works.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> You forgot the part where the woman in the school said that the kids are being confused.


The woman in the school does not say that the kids are being confused.

Ann, the reasonable woman interviewed sitting at a table did say that the entire extreme that Sweden is taking things to is confusing to children.
I was giving a very high level breakdown of the way the propaganda piece was built and passed off as news. My point was to show how the pee-law stupidity was used to bring the viewer to a mental place that then framed everything else shown.

I was not talking about the detail of what everyone said on every issue.



Caribbean Man said:


> Yes ,
> I agree ,I just looked at it again.
> After critical analysis , it does piece remotely related stuff and use innuendo to come up with a sizzling soundbyte.
> 
> I have also seen this manipulation at work both here in our local media and also on TAM


Yep, very common structure for propaganda.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Btw. Euronews are not made by Swedes as you can hear the accent is clearly British...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

this is old news I've read about European countries trying to do this years ago.

and in my opinion it is feminism by emasculating males.

all garbage. if anything like this ever passed into some sorta of law I will pi$$ on every tolit seat possible.

kinda like gaundi passive resistance move.

and most women I know never sit on public seat to pee so in essence they stand and pee also.


maybe some smart engineer should redesign the commode.

and pooping is #2 not the big 1


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> this is old news I've read about European countries trying to do this years ago.
> 
> and in my opinion it is feminism by emasculating males.
> 
> ...


You fell for the propaganda. IT's not a woman, or feminist group, trying to pass a law to force men to sit and pee. It's a man because of his son's experiences in kindergarten where they tried to teach the boy to pee standing up.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> You fell for the propaganda. IT's not a woman, or feminist group, trying to pass a law to force men to sit and pee. It's a man because of his son's experiences in kindergarten where they tried to teach the boy to pee standing up.


while I agree its propaganda this is old news I've heard this argument before about ten years ago. 2006 was when I first read about it. google it


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> and pooping is #2 not the big 1


Lol we have toilets that read small one and big one on the flush button.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

I don't really understand how sitting can be emasculating? You have to stand the shame of sitting when pooing. There's nothing feminine pissing sitting style. Maybe some people are just lazy and use the opportunity to read news while sitting and doing the duty.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

camillaj said:


> I don't really understand how sitting can be emasculating? You have to stand the shame of sitting when pooing. There's nothing feminine pissing sitting style. Maybe some people are just lazy and use the opportunity to read news while sitting and doing the duty.


I guess you need to have a c*ck to understand


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Does it get stuck or something?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> I get the guy was pissed of his kids school tried to force his son to pee standing up when he didn't want to was wrong, but now he is trying to dictate to the whole country how to pee.


He's doing the exact same thing his kids school did that he thought was wrong.

I'll never understand how people can fail to see their own hypocrisy when it's glaring right at them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> while I agree its propaganda this is old news I've heard this argument before about ten years ago. 2006 was when I first read about it. google it


But it has nothing to do with feminism. That's the point.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> all garbage. if anything like this ever passed into some sorta of law I will pi$$ on every tolit seat possible.


In all honesty I believe this would be the overwhelming reaction to such a law.


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You are right that the man's campaign to pass a law that all males have to pee sitting down has nothing to do with feminism. It's inclusion in this film is a very common tactic for getting emotional reaction out of people.
> 
> Here's the formula:
> 
> ...


Broken down perfectly!! Pure propaganda/a form of manipulation and most people don't realize it.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Chillymourn you're not gonna piss in my toilet!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

camillaj said:


> Chillymourn you're not gonna piss in my toilet!


but can I take a dump?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

camillaj said:


> Does it get stuck or something?


depends on how well your hung. that water can be cold!!!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There are many feminists who believe that men are merely defective girls to be corrected or destroyed. If that's what Sweden wants, fine. 

But in the mean time I just have to point out the delicious dark irony that rape in Sweden is exploding. It's massive; possibly the highest and fastest increasing rates in Europe. Mostly a side effect or at the least a trailing trend of welcoming 10's of thousands of third world Muslim 'refugees' for whom rape and domestic violence aren't laws or conventions or concepts they have any cultural understanding of. 

So 'feminism' in Sweden it seems is fine with persecuting ordinary men for trivial things as long as everyone gets to respect the wonderful flower of cultural expression from far away places populated by people with strange hats. Even if it means everyone has to get raped.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> There are quite a few males who are either feminist or identify with the feminist causes in their country.
> 
> In our country, male trade unionist often support feminist causes. They are Marxist leaning hence the connection.
> An example I particularly remember was when domestic workers wanted to for themselves into a union , because of exploitation and abuses. They were really a small group and most of them were foreigners from poorer countries. A feminist group took up their cause and they got a massive boost from one of the larger trade unions , a male dominated union. They absorbed them within their ranks , lobbied the government on their behalf and they were able to get recognition.
> ...


OMG I love that you said this!!!!!

It was during an AIDS film that I saw this. But basically the myth that a gay men were the only impacted by Aids spread and women were being infected. But women were not allowed to get benefits and were not recognized as statistics in the Aids epidemic.

MEN, gay and straight, with women broke into the CDC and caused chaos all so that women could get care for HIV.

I will NEVER forget this, it makes me cry even thinking about this.

For me feminism is a choice, it is often dismissed and called radical or whatever. But the truth is women love men, and most of us appreciate them for the differences we have (like spider killing) we just want equal pay for hard work and opportunities to do well- for ALL of US.

I find people who don't like the concept of feminism and love to turn in into a dirty word, are often against gay marriage, race, religion... typically conservative.

Times are changing.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

LOL, can you imagine if this type of law was passed? The lines for the men's restroom would be as long as the women's restroom since the guys couldn't use urinals.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

bunny23 said:


> OMG I love that you said this!!!!!
> 
> It was during an AIDS film that I saw this. But basically the myth that a gay men were the only impacted by Aids spread and women were being infected. But women were not allowed to get benefits and were not recognized as statistics in the Aids epidemic.
> 
> ...


Do you really believe all conservatives are against gay marriage, race, and religion? That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there. I'll tell you what. I'll agree with you on this statement if you'll agree that all women who claim to be feminists are actually misandrists.


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> There are many feminists who believe that men are merely defective girls to be corrected or destroyed. If that's what Sweden wants, fine.
> 
> But in the mean time I just have to point out the delicious dark irony that rape in Sweden is exploding. It's massive; possibly the highest and fastest increasing rates in Europe. Mostly a side effect or at the least a trailing trend of welcoming 10's of thousands of third world Muslim 'refugees' for whom rape and domestic violence aren't laws or conventions or concepts they have any cultural understanding of.
> 
> So 'feminism' in Sweden it seems is fine with persecuting ordinary men for trivial things as long as everyone gets to respect the wonderful flower of cultural expression from far away places populated by people with strange hats. Even if it means everyone has to get raped.


This is not because of Sweden. You have to understand that the EU forces a lot of things on its member countries like the requirement to take refugees. If not the EU then it's the European Convention on Human Rights which happens to be supranational and will force the countries to pay huge fines if it decides human rights have been broken.

PS. a huge amount of refugees came from Vietnam during the 90s. AMongst the current refugees there are Iraqi, Afghanistan, Libya ... citizens. Now who's fault is that I wonder?


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> Do you really believe all conservatives are against gay marriage, race, and religion? That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there. I'll tell you what. I'll agree with you on this statement if you'll agree that all women who claim to be feminists are actually misandrists.





I said in my personal experience I find this OFTEN to be the case, not always.
There is a difference in conservative ideals of Republicans from 30 years ago and the types of things I see now.

Actually I would urge more FINANCIALLY conservative people to stop touting personal and moral ideas. It may work better for them.

My generation (people in our 30's) are sick of the racism and bigotry.

BTW I would also add that in a lot of people I don't know if their beliefs are just public policy faces, that change behind closed doors.
I also have friends who will say one thing while with more "liberal" people and turn around to talk crap when in another setting.

I tend to be firm in my convictions and have a low tolerance for racism or bigoted views. I'm not sure why.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well there goes my days of chucking a piss out the balcony...

Good thing I don't live in Sweden!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> depends on how well your hung. that water can be cold!!!



and deep too!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

bunny23 said:


> I said in my personal experience I find this OFTEN to be the case, not always.
> *There is a difference in conservative ideals of Republicans from 30 years ago and the types of things I see now.*
> 
> Actually I would urge more FINANCIALLY conservative people to stop touting personal and moral ideas. It may work better for them.
> ...


Really? I'd love to hear more, but not by jacking this thread. Maybe you could start a thread in the political forum to detail these differences you see. It would be lively.


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