# Dating, longing, intimacy, and expectations



## scienist2 (May 16, 2014)

Thanks all for reading!

Exec summary:

My info: divorced, early 30's, engineer.
Her info: was single for 5~ish, early 30's, engineer.
Our info: dating for ~10 months now.

Also, an older thread is here: (forgot my login) http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/318497-dating-advice-after-long-break.html

I am a bit at a loss and would like some feedback on my thoughts.

This amazing girl (an outdoorsy type) and I (also an outdoorsy type) have been dating for 10 months or so. She had been single for many years (strong and independent, yet sensitive woman) and I had divorced a year before we started dating.

The seemingly only issue is in the intimacy department.

We see each other on the weekends and occasionally during the week as well.

I have going been very slow with her and did not really force much intimacy since she had been single for many years. Why? She is an extreme introvert and has the mechanic personality type. I think she got badly hurt in the last relationship she had (mid 20's) and decided not the repeat such experience.

But then this European guy appeared and she gave him a shot.

Fast forward ten months and see some progress. Kissing. Hiking. Camping. Touching (on my side, of course). Sleep overs later on.

But there is no... sex. I am a generally low drive guy (yes, I am in shape, do hike, climb, swim, ..., but somehow I do not to have sex on a weekly basis). I have been slowly yet gradually introducing elements of sex into our lives, such as (from my side) pretty much anything but the final base. She reciprocates but does not initiate.

Yesterday I forced this issue. She typically does not vocalize her issues or thoughts (cautious and extreme introvert) and many times I have to ask for her input. She is very comfortable with being quiet.

I asked her rather flat: why do not we have sex? Is there something wrong?

Her reply: I feel that you have expectations of me that I am not meeting. That makes me feel insecure and not too comfortable. I have a hard time relaxing. But I do want to have sex with you.

My other question: How did this work in your previous relationship?

Her reply: Sometimes it happened and sometimes it did not. (I could not get a clearer answer).

Next: What did sex mean to you? (I also said that to me it is a natural extension of intimacy and a differentiator of friendship/dating).

Her reply: I do not know.

That's for the questions. I also think that she has also been avoiding bed situations. Actually, I do believe that if I did not force the issue by having this discussion, she'd be perfectly fine with the status quo (evenings together, book reading, hiking, camping, climbing, board games, ...).

For reference, my ex-wife was a total bed queen. She was almost like a _pro_. But that's over and has been over for two years. Just a basis for comparison, nothing else. But I also know that my expectations are not unrealistic.

I really, really care for this girl and I believe that there is a potential for a great long-time relationship and possibly even more. Besides the intimacy aspect I am truly happy (hope she is too!)

Do I push too much? How should I go about relieving some of the pressure she feels without completely giving up on the intimacy aspect of a relationship?

Thanks!

European guy dating an American girl


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I wish I had some advice to offer, but I couldn't imagine dating 10 weeks without having sex, much less 10 months!

Maybe try couples counseling?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I wish I had some advice to offer, but I couldn't imagine dating 10 weeks without having sex, much less 10 months!
> 
> Maybe try couples counseling?


I cannot relate. As a young man and prior to marriage, I stopped dating the most beautiful women imaginable when it became clear that sex was not going to be an option.....soon.

I could not have a relationship without intimacy. Too much lust in my heart.

But you are different. I suspect that this lady will be a challenge and maybe a disappointment later on.

This is an unfair statement, but her past failed relationships may be related to her LD tendencies.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't think you're pushing too much... I wouldn't want to hold out ten months, let along ten weeks, as someone else said.

I think you might have some good long-term potential, especially if you're both LD. But it sounds like she may have some hang-ups regarding sex, which she either isn't aware of or she isn't willing to deal with. Someone suggested couples counseling, but I've been convinced if you have to go to couples counseling so early in a relationship, it may not be a relationship worth saving.

It sounds like you guys have something, and I think this might be worth waiting for/sticking out. But she's the only one who can fix her issues. You can encourage her to talk to a therapist, and support her, but you're not going to be able to fix this for her.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Do you enjoy spinning your wheels in other aspects of your life as well? It's pretty clear you should expect this relationship to be sexless and proceed accordingly.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

More red flags than the Komsomol May 1 parade...

The question is, to what extent do you see yourself as a "fixer"?

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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

OldWorld said:


> My info: divorced, early 30's,* engineer.*





john117 said:


> The question is, to what extent do you see yourself as a "fixer"?


:rofl:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You never know. I'm your friendly neighborhood liberal arts major but a fixer nonetheless...

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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@OldWorld I don't know what the others here are talking about! Yes I think you have a keeper. What I heard is "I want to have sex with you but I am afraid. Help me."

I think you have not pursued ENOUGH and not too much. You should feel free to introduce sex next time but gently lead. I bet she follows. Since you are not HD she could be ideal for you.

Stop worrying about pushing her too much. If you are kissing and feel passionate, gently move forward with you hands while kissing. If you do this slowly but deliberately - confidently - she'll probably like it. And if it's slow and deliberate it gives her plenty of opportunity to redirect you.

So push forward and let her be the one to stop it. Rather than waiting for an invitation that will never come.

My read is she likes you and is looking for you to ease her fears and concerns.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

BTW you're both engineers - come on you should understand this. You're both in your own heads too much.

My (engineer) brother told me you never ask an engineer a question because they won't answer it. You just make an assertion - and you'll immediately get feedback if you're wrong 

Keep that in mind. Don't ask. Do. If you're wrong you'll get feedback then


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I would let her go. Being LD is fine, especially if you BOTH are LD. However, LD is way different that NO D. She sounds like she has zero interest in having sex at all, and all that is going to do is cause you issues and constant struggle down the road.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

If you want to get laid, you need to be the Alpha Male. Take the lead. If sex is important, then I'd start dating someone that wants to have sex. 

Perhaps you two shouldn't be exclusive. Hell, are you even exclusive? No sex means just friends. Find a girl that wants your d!ck everyday and you'll change your outlook on sex. You'll want it all the time!


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Does not compute. As a HD guy, I would have long since bailed on this chick. 10 months without sex in a committed relationship? I get that you are low drive, and it sounds like she is too. But certainly there should be enough chemistry to reach the point of sexual intimacy by this time - if there was any. I think you have two people who enjoy each other's company but maybe that's the extent of it. Anyways, test it out. You stopped short of getting the answers you needed. What would help her relax and feel comfortable with progressing your sexual relationship? It's OK to confirm that she isn't meeting your expectations as she so astutely observed. It's piss or get off the pot time. 

Also... What have you tried to do to help her relax? Have you actually initiated sex? Were you rejected? Why didn't other sex acts turn into sexual intercourse? Was she responsive to your initiations and other sexual acts? How responsive/enthusiastic? 

I mean at some point you're going to have to explain your intentions. You aim to have a sexual relationship with her. Is that something she wants too, or are you incompatible in that respect? If she doesn't share your goals, then you should save a heap of trouble for both of you and split amicably. 


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My personal opinion is that she is NOT having a hard time relaxing, that was a bullsh!t line she gave because she doesn't want to do it.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

OldWorld said:


> Thanks all for reading!
> 
> Exec summary:
> 
> ...





> The seemingly only issue is in the intimacy department.
> 
> We see each other on the weekends and occasionally during the week as well.
> 
> ...


So in 10 months together you haven't had sex? 



> Yesterday I forced this issue. She typically does not vocalize her issues or thoughts (cautious and extreme introvert) and many times I have to ask for her input. She is very comfortable with being quiet.
> 
> I asked her rather flat: why do not we have sex? Is there something wrong?
> 
> ...


She's an extreme extrovert outside in work but an extreme introvert with her thoughts? 

I feel like you're getting a political type answers from her, why can't a strong, independent, sensitive woman (as you describe her) give you a straight answer? 




> That's for the questions. I also think that she has also been avoiding bed situations. Actually, I do believe that if I did not force the issue by having this discussion, she'd be perfectly fine with the status quo (evenings together, book reading, hiking, camping, climbing, board games, ...).


She's looking at you as husband material not sexually. 
She will be perfectly fine not having sex until the wedding and not much after. 



> I really, really care for this girl and I believe that there is a potential for a great long-time relationship and possibly even more. Besides the intimacy aspect I am truly happy (hope she is too!)
> 
> Do I push too much? How should I go about relieving some of the pressure she feels without completely giving up on the intimacy aspect of a relationship?


You will have to decide which is more important, a great companion with sex around 12 times or less in a year or someone else with more sex, less best friends. 

I wouldn't recommend marrying this lady until your intimacy is sorted. 

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

People who have a high desire for sex will have a lot of sex given the opportunity. Those with a low desire will find reasons not to have sex despite the opportunity. 

If you want a frequent active sex life, you need to be with someone who shares your high desire for sex. Hoping that someones desire will change is likely to lead to long term frustration and misery. 

There is nothing wrong with either a high or low desire for sex, but the two are not compatible. 

There is of course a chance that she is just not sexually interested in *you*. But if that is the case, nothing changes. Whether she doesn't want sex with anyone, or just not with you makes no difference. Since you had an active sex life before, you are desirable to some women, just not this one.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

OldWorld said:


> My other question: How did this work in your previous relationship?
> 
> Her reply: Sometimes it happened and sometimes it did not. (I could not get a clearer answer).
> 
> ...


She KNOWS just fine. This is the type of answer you get from someone who isn't willing to tell you how they feel about any number of things. Given that it sounds like you are both LD, this could be a match made in heaven. I can't imagine dating anyone for ten months with no sex, but to each his own.

I'd be more concerned about her inability to give you something more than vague answers to important questions.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

It is a shame that we do judge others by whether they want sex or not, but sex is important as an indicator of the importance of other aspects of the relationship. Also, if she is not comfortable with sex, maybe you need to teach her to be close without necessarily having sex. She needs to feel close enough to open up and talk, If like she says, she feels she wants sex with you but she cannot bring herself to, Maybe you could give her confidence to go for counselling. There are many women with many issues that prevent them from having regular sex. Maybe help her to confront those issues without first pushing too much. 

Also, sex is not always genital to genital. It can be other things which she may find less daunting and me lead to eventual point you are asking for. She says she cannot relax. That tells you she has a clue about herself but is unable to talk freely about it. Give her the freedom by not judging her, but accepting her as she is. Build her up. 10 months already so what can you lose? My friend did not have sex till she was 34. She simply feared the idea of being penetrated. She is as normal as anyone else now and has two lovely boys.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I don't know where you live. In DC, they actually have counselors that specialize in sex (particularly for women). It's basically a small group of women with a female counselor - and it's very effective .... sign her up and let the fun begin (no joking there's homework...and it works).


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Zombie. Closing. 

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