# Porn in marriage



## Lauren123

Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


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## WorkingOnMe

I hate that expression. Make myself sexually available. That's a far cry from being hot for him, isn't it?


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## Lostme

Speaking as a woman porn does not bother me, it's not like he will jump through the screen and have sex with them.

But of course he does not watch a lot of porn and I watch it with him sometimes.

I also don't mind if he is hot and bothered after watching it, cause I'm the one he is with when that happens.


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## Lauren123

What I was trying to convey is that he knows I'm open and willing to try new things whenever and that I put effort into keeping our sex life healthy, fun, spontaneous, and sexy.


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## Wolf1974

I would say all men have been exposed to porn not all men continually watch it. And really porn isn't a problem until it is. I have watched porn since I was 15. Never effected my sexual relationship never bothered the women I was with however I never chose porn over them either so that's why it wasn't an issue. 

Clearly this has been an issue for you in the past so can you clarify 

Do you have an issue with porn
Do you have an issue with him watching porn
Do you have an issue with him hiding it
Is he choosing porn over you
Is he lying to you about its use
Does he have some fetish that your aware of that is bothering you?

Need to know where lies the exact problem so you can get the right advice.


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## Pkitty111

I am a woman who has a HD and tend to watch porn quite often. My husband watches it as well. We dont really watch it together because he is a bit less open with his sexuality and tends to hide that he is watching it. To him the act of watching porn, and masturbating is private. I feel like your husband is probably hiding it because 1. masturbating for some people is private, and 2. if you got upset the last time that can be a bit embarrassing. Remember masturbation is natural, but has been shamed and something people dont necessary talk about. Your husband has most likely learned to hide this act as has mine, and even me. Getting upset over porn is like shaming again. Sure porn can be intimidating, but unless he has a problem with it then maybe try being more open with him about it. Its better to be open with your spouse then having him hide things from you.


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## AVR1962

I have been married twice and both men looked at porn. My first husband was all about sex with me and sought me for it, over and again. We viewed porn together and it really wasn't an issue. Second husband went to porn instead of me, even while dating. he did not know how to come to his wife and didn't. Even with counseling it did not help. I think there is a big difference in the type of man that seeks it soley for his gratification instead of his wife and the man that enjoys it but seeks his wife over porn.


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## LaReine

We both watch it. Separately and together.
Sometimes you need to be "by yourself".


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## Diana7

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


lauren, I can completely understand why you are hurt. There are still many men who dont look at it, despite the fact that sadly porn use is so prevalent now. I wouldn't be with a man who did this, I would rather be alone. Neither my former husband of 25 years nor this one of 12 years watch/watched porn. Apparently, porn use is cited on 60% of all divorces now, and I know 2 women myself whose marriages ended because of this. 
I think you need to talk to him, tell him how you feel, and ask that he stops.Its perfectly reasonable for you to expect that, especially as presumably he never even told you that he used porn before you married. There are programmes that you can get that block porn, in the uk all internet providers automatically block it unless you request otherwise. Don't let him use the old, 'well all men do it' no, many men don't. I see it as a form of cheating and a complete no no.


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## uhtred

To me the key is whether he is rejecting you for porn. If he sometimes turns you down for sex, then watches porn, I think it is a big problem. OTOH if he watches porn when you aren't particularly in the mood (even if you are "available"), then I don't see the harm.

There are men who get addicted to porn and start sexually rejecting their partners. That can be a huge problem. 


I think your use of the word "available" is confusing. Are you enthusiastically interested, or just willing to go along with sex when he wants?


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## Andy1001

Since I first started lurking on tam there are two things that I genuinely can't understand and one of them is why would any man prefer to watch porn or masturbste than have sex with a willing partner.


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## samyeagar

Andy1001 said:


> Since I first started lurking on tam there are two things that I genuinely can't understand and one of them is why would any man prefer to watch porn or masturbste than have sex with a willing partner.


Obviously you don't know my NPD ex-wife.


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## uhtred

Its an addiction. Why would someone want to drink Thunderbird out of a paper bag while lying in the gutter? They didn't start that way - they started with a small drink (or a video). Gradually they wanted more and more until it destroyed them.


Just as there are lots of people who drink but are not alcoholics, there are lots of people who watch porn but don't get addicted. 



Andy1001 said:


> Since I first started lurking on tam there are two things that I genuinely can't understand and one of them is why would any man prefer to watch porn or masturbste than have sex with a willing partner.


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## Andy1001

samyeagar said:


> Obviously you don't know my NPD ex-wife.


What has the Nassau police department got to do with it?
I'm joking,at least she's your EX wife.


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## quarterafterone

I had an experience once in my early years of dating. The guy was interested in watching porn, carrying around nude girl pics ect ect. It made me feel inadequate, embarrassed, dirty and I had feelings of mistrust. 

Porn is fake, its not real and its mostly truly disgusting these days. Its not a turn on for me as most of it seems violent, forced & a lot of it is only focused on the 'mans' pleasure. I cant understand how someone would want a dedicated secret app on their phone to watch it & I personally would question his/her morals, values, mentality & personalty if they are sneaking around having to watch that stuff all the time. You should not tolerate a man making you feel inadequate. I prefer a passionate real man who can give/get pleasure & intimacy all night long. I prefer a real man to explore each others fantasies with - not a cell phone app or a porn movie.


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## Wantpeace

As a guy I would much prefer a woman over porn. I have seen my share of porn in the past. I avoid it now the same way I avoid strip clubs but sometimes I slip. No use in getting all revved up with no outlet. Masturbation is just so boring and it does not give me the connection I crave. I found porn can give me unrealistic expectations. However using my imagination to masturbate is probably worse than porn because what I think of is even more impossible. I would be more than happy to never see porn again if I had a willing partner.

Yes I know from talking to other guys that they do not look at porn. But was is normal? Everybody is different. Some people swing and are happy and for most people I know that would end badly.


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## sokillme

Andy1001 said:


> Since I first started lurking on tam there are two things that I genuinely can't understand and one of them is why would any man prefer to watch porn or masturbste than have sex with a willing partner.


Porn addiction, his brain is trained to be more attracted to watching people having sex in 2D then the real thing, fear of intimacy, performance anxiety, laziness, holding a grudge, feeling rejected, having an affair, his partner is bad in bed and sex is too routine and boring, lack of attraction to his partner. - are just some of the ones I could come up with on the top of my head.


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## Ynot

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


All men do not watch porn. However two questions come to mind. First off how do you know that this app is used solely to watch porn and second off, how do you know if he isn't using it to get ideas on how to be a better lover? Despite what some say, a lot of porn is not just geared towards a man's pleasure, a lot of porn is not violent, a lot of porn is not exploitive of women, and a lot of porn is not "forced" ( I assume they mean such as forced against their will). I would ask him about it, you might be surprised. He might actually be trying to learn new ways to please you, I would think it would be better he learn from a video than visiting brothels or getting some action on the side.


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## arbitrator

*Let's just say that I greatly prefer the natural warmth, touch, and pleasure of a woman who is in my presence, so much more than the artificial sexual fix that porn seems to go about conveniently providing when she is not!*


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## Andy1001

sokillme said:


> Porn addiction, his brain is trained to be more attracted to watching people having sex in 2D then the real thing, fear of intimacy, performance anxiety, laziness, holding a grudge, feeling rejected, having an affair, his partner is bad in bed and sex is too routine and boring, lack of attraction to his partner. - are just some of the ones I could come up with on the top of my head.


The second thing I don't understand is a sexless marriage or relationship.I know some men say they were tricked into marriage by women pretending to enjoy sex and once they were married or the first kid arrived then sex ground to a halt.Maybe I'm being naive but I think I would have figured out during our relationship that she wasn't really enjoying herself.And from reading tam I know this works both ways,there are many women trapped in sexless marriages too.
I firmly believe it is some ingredient in wedding cake that causes it.🤔


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## Andy1001

arbitrator said:


> *Let's just say that I greatly prefer the natural warmth, touch, and pleasure of a woman who is in my presence, so much more than the artificial sexual fix that porn seems to go about conveniently providing when she is not!*


Arb you just brought back a very happy memory to me.
I used to live with two gay girls and we were very open with each other,no topic of conversation was off the table.On night the three of us and my girlfriend at the time were out in a bar and the subject of porn came up.Nothing else would do except we went back to our apt and borrowed a porn DVD from a neighbor.The movie was a threesome involving two girls and one guy and after a few minutes the two gay girls started re enacting the scenes and my girlfriend joined in enthusiastically.They were all fully dressed and for reasons best known to themselves decided to speak in fake French accents.
I think it was the funniest thing I have ever seen and I am laughing now as I type.


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## MJJEAN

Andy1001 said:


> Arb you just brought back a very happy memory to me.
> I used to live with two gay girls and we were very open with each other,no topic of conversation was off the table.On night the three of us and my girlfriend at the time were out in a bar and the subject of porn came up.Nothing else would do except we went back to our apt and borrowed a porn DVD from a neighbor.The movie was a threesome involving two girls and one guy and after a few minutes the two gay girls started re enacting the scenes and my girlfriend joined in enthusiastically.They were all fully dressed and for reasons best known to themselves decided to speak in fake French accents.
> I think it was the funniest thing I have ever seen and I am laughing now as I type.


And you brought to mind a happy memory for me! Back in the day, my friend Jay used to host "Cheesy Porn Night". A bunch of us would meet at his house, drink wine, eat snacks, watch really bad porn brought by one of the guests, and make fun of it. Somewhere in the world is a clown porn. In this porn, every time the clown ejaculates, he shoots....wait for it...popcorn! Hilariously bad!


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## Andy1001

MJJEAN said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arb you just brought back a very happy memory to me.
> I used to live with two gay girls and we were very open with each other,no topic of conversation was off the table.On night the three of us and my girlfriend at the time were out in a bar and the subject of porn came up.Nothing else would do except we went back to our apt and borrowed a porn DVD from a neighbor.The movie was a threesome involving two girls and one guy and after a few minutes the two gay girls started re enacting the scenes and my girlfriend joined in enthusiastically.They were all fully dressed and for reasons best known to themselves decided to speak in fake French accents.
> I think it was the funniest thing I have ever seen and I am laughing now as I type.
> 
> 
> 
> And you brought to mind a happy memory for me! Back in the day, my friend Jay used to host "Cheesy Porn Night". A bunch of us would meet at his house, drink wine, eat snacks, watch really bad porn brought by one of the guests, and make fun of it. Somewhere in the world is a clown porn. In this porn, every time the clown ejaculates, he shoots....wait for it...popcorn! Hilariously bad!
Click to expand...

I just laughed out loud when I read this and now the baby is laughing too. I will never see popcorn the same again.


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## Robbie1234

MJJEAN said:


> And you brought to mind a happy memory for me! Back in the day, my friend Jay used to host "Cheesy Porn Night". A bunch of us would meet at his house, drink wine, eat snacks, watch really bad porn brought by one of the guests, and make fun of it. Somewhere in the world is a clown porn. In this porn, every time the clown ejaculates, he shoots....wait for it...popcorn! Hilariously bad!


That is a film I have to see.


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## Ynot

MJJEAN said:


> And you brought to mind a happy memory for me! Back in the day, my friend Jay used to host "Cheesy Porn Night". A bunch of us would meet at his house, drink wine, eat snacks, watch really bad porn brought by one of the guests, and make fun of it. Somewhere in the world is a clown porn. In this porn, every time the clown ejaculates, he shoots....wait for it...popcorn! Hilariously bad!


Buttered popcorn?


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## Andy1001

Ynot said:


> Buttered popcorn?


I think it was cheesy 🤥


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## Vinnydee

All the men I know but I tend to hang with alpha males into sex as much as they can get. I watch porn all the time and am happily married for 45 years. My wife likes how it get me all horny for her and we have great sex as a result, even though we are in out sixties now. The danger of porn is when it interferes with your real life. For younger men, it gives them an unrealistic view of sex. They expect girls to crave them and ejaculate in their face and love it. 

Masturbating too much to porn is also harmful as it means you are less likely to want sex with your wife as often. Much easier to masturbate. Another danger is when men get into sexual fetishes that their wives will not try. That is when they watch their fetish sex online and masturbate to it. After a while they are conditioned so that regular sex does not arouse them and they feel disappointed with their sex life. 

My wife has tried every fetish I asked her to try, at least once to see if she likes it or is willing to do it for me once in awhile. I have done mostly everything you see in porn videos over my lifetime. I do not have to watch it on my computer. I lived it and with real women, not actresses. Other guys have to live their sex life online because their wife will not indulge them There is a saying that is very true, a kink is something you want to do, but a fetish is something you have to do. If you do not feed a fetish it will gnaw at you and sometimes make you do things you should not be doing when married. 

In conclusion of my lecture, porn is not inherently bad. It is how you let it affect your life that is. Men are visual creatures whiel women are not. It is genetic for men to get aroused visually. Men are designed to constantly seek out mates. A man can impregnate several women a day thereby upping his odds of passing along his genes. Women only get one shot at it a year. Much different sexual goals and design.


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## Andy1001

Vinnydee said:


> All the men I know but I tend to hang with alpha males into sex as much as they can get. I watch porn all the time and am happily married for 45 years. My wife likes how it get me all horny for her and we have great sex as a result, even though we are in out sixties now. The danger of porn is when it interferes with your real life. For younger men, it gives them an unrealistic view of sex. They expect girls to crave them and ejaculate in their face and love it.
> 
> Masturbating too much to porn is also harmful as it means you are less likely to want sex with your wife as often. Much easier to masturbate. Another danger is when men get into sexual fetishes that their wives will not try. That is when they watch their fetish sex online and masturbate to it. After a while they are conditioned so that regular sex does not arouse them and they feel disappointed with their sex life.
> 
> My wife has tried every fetish I asked her to try, at least once to see if she likes it or is willing to do it for me once in awhile. I have done mostly everything you see in porn videos over my lifetime. I do not have to watch it on my computer. I lived it and with real women, not actresses. Other guys have to live their sex life online because their wife will not indulge them There is a saying that is very true, a kink is something you want to do, but a fetish is something you have to do. If you do not feed a fetish it will gnaw at you and sometimes make you do things you should not be doing when married.
> 
> In conclusion of my lecture, porn is not inherently bad. It is how you let it affect your life that is. Men are visual creatures whiel women are not. It is genetic for men to get aroused visually. Men are designed to constantly seek out mates. A man can impregnate several women a day thereby upping his odds of passing along his genes. Women only get one shot at it a year. Much different sexual goals and design.


I agree with you Vinny, porn gives men an unrealistic view of sex.
It also gives woman an unrealistic view of how quickly a plumber will call to her home.


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## toblerone

I found that it doesn't really hurt my feelings at all when I use porn. I don't know how my wife would feel about it if she found out, though.


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## Diana7

toblerone said:


> I found that it doesn't really hurt my feelings at all when I use porn. I don't know how my wife would feel about it if she found out, though.


Do you think its ok for you to watch porn behind you wife's back?


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## LaReine

Vinnydee said:


> A man can impregnate several women a day thereby upping his odds of passing along his genes. Women only get one shot at it a year. Much different sexual goals and design.



Not true. Based purely on the fact that pregnancy lasts 40 weeks (approx), women have two shots a year. Assuming the baby goes to term.

As for men, sperm loses its "potency" after each ejaculation and needs time to build up again. So, no, it's unlikely (though not impossible) that one man could get several women pregnant in one day. 



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## peacem

The only time I am threatened by porn is when I am sexually frustrated. 

I think the major problem with porn in marriage is that couples do not talk about it or they go into denial. Then when it rears its head all sorts of conclusions are jumped to and it feels hurtful to be lied to....and then we have to go onto the internet to ask a group of strangers what is going on....

If I could have my time again, I would be far more open and less judgemental about porn use in a hope that he would be more open and less secretive about his. I have learned a lot from porn - not about having sex - but about sexuality and fantasies. I also like the idea of having a horny husband, I just needed to turn that to my advantage. I've also learned that porn is lame compared to good, frequent sex.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Lauren123 said:


> What I was trying to convey is that he knows I'm open and willing to try new things whenever and that I put effort into keeping our sex life healthy, fun, spontaneous, and sexy.


I know I'll get slammed for this, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's a reality that a lot of guys like variety. It doesn't matter if you swing from the chandelier every night or perform like a sex kitten for him anytime he asks.

Lots of men like to see pictures or videos of naked women - especially when the pizza guy shows up at her house or her best friend from college comes by for a girl's movie night. And lots of guys have certain kinks or fetishes that they can indulge in when watching porn. Watching a woman smoke is a kink, if you can believe that or not. Maybe I'll start charging the perverts to watch, the next time I go out to the butt hut at work. :rofl:


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## Andy1001

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I know I'll get slammed for this, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's a reality that a lot of guys like variety. It doesn't matter if you swing from the chandelier every night or perform like a sex kitten for him anytime he asks.
> 
> Lots of men like to see pictures or videos of naked women - especially when the pizza guy shows up at her house or her best friend from college comes by for a girl's movie night. And lots of guys have certain kinks or fetishes that they can indulge in when watching porn. Watching a woman smoke is a kink, if you can believe that or not. Maybe I'll start charging the perverts to watch, the next time I go out to the butt hut at work. :rofl:


Two friends of mine set up a pizza delivery business in college and one of them told me he never once was even propositioned much less actually got laid while making deliveries.
His girlfriend got plenty of action though.😜


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## Luv2travel

I'm in the same boat you are OP. I've been married just over a year and am sexually frustrated by the lack of sex. DH says he has a high sex drive and probably pleasures himself at least 3-4x per week with the help of porn. If I have to use his computer for any reason there are about six porn websites that I see saved in his browser. Then there are favorite porn stars. And he chats with these women too. He sees nothing wrong with it. He knows I don't like it, but he said he is a visual person. 

I initiate sex and ask for more sex. I dress up in outfits he likes, etc. When we have sex it's excellent, but just not enough. 

I don't know what to do either.


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## Diana7

Luv2travel said:


> I'm in the same boat you are OP. I've been married just over a year and am sexually frustrated by the lack of sex. DH says he has a high sex drive and probably pleasures himself at least 3-4x per week with the help of porn. If I have to use his computer for any reason there are about six porn websites that I see saved in his browser. Then there are favorite porn stars. And he chats with these women too. He sees nothing wrong with it. He knows I don't like it, but he said he is a visual person.
> 
> I initiate sex and ask for more sex. I dress up in outfits he likes, etc. When we have sex it's excellent, but just not enough.
> 
> I don't know what to do either.


A lady I know got so fed up with her husbands constant use of porn, that she gave him ultimatum, the marriage or the porn. She was ready to leave. He chose her and stopped looking. Thats what I would do. There is no way that I would put up with your husbands terrible behaviour. 
Giving the excuse that he is a 'visual person' is total nonsense. Many men are visual people but choose not to use porn. He is being mentally unfaithful with hundreds of women, and until you finally decide that enough is enough, it will never stop. While you enable it by doing nothing it will carry on.
I guess you know this when you married him though?


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## uhtred

That is fair. Like any ultimatum though, you have to be ready to go through with it if he says "goodby". I only recommend this approach if porn is important enough to you that you would rather be divorced than have him continue to watch. (which is fine if that is how you fell).






Diana7 said:


> A lady I know got so fed up with her husbands constant use of porn, that she gave him ultimatum, the marriage or the porn. She was ready to leave. He chose her and stopped looking. Thats what I would do. There is no way that I would put up with your husbands terrible behaviour.
> Giving the excuse that he is a 'visual person' is total nonsense. Many men are visual people but choose not to use porn. He is being mentally unfaithful with hundreds of women, and until you finally decide that enough is enough, it will never stop. While you enable it by doing nothing it will carry on.
> I guess you know this when you married him though?


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## Diana7

uhtred said:


> That is fair. Like any ultimatum though, you have to be ready to go through with it if he says "goodby". I only recommend this approach if porn is important enough to you that you would rather be divorced than have him continue to watch. (which is fine if that is how you fell).


OH yes you have to be prepared to go through with it. If he said goodbye, then that would show how little he though of his wife. For this lady it worked. 
I would rather be divorced than have a husband who thought porn was more important than his marriage.


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## Andy1001

Luv2travel said:


> I'm in the same boat you are OP. I've been married just over a year and am sexually frustrated by the lack of sex. DH says he has a high sex drive and probably pleasures himself at least 3-4x per week with the help of porn. If I have to use his computer for any reason there are about six porn websites that I see saved in his browser. Then there are favorite porn stars. And he chats with these women too. He sees nothing wrong with it. He knows I don't like it, but he said he is a visual person.
> 
> I initiate sex and ask for more sex. I dress up in outfits he likes, etc. When we have sex it's excellent, but just not enough.
> 
> I don't know what to do either.



If he prefers watching porn to having sex with his new wife then there is something seriously wrong with him. You need to sort this out because otherwise you have a long life of coming second place to his porn star du jour. 
What the **** is wrong with him!


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## She'sStillGotIt

Diana7 said:


> A lady I know got so fed up with her husbands constant use of porn, that she gave him ultimatum, the marriage or the porn. She was ready to leave. He chose her and stopped looking.


LOL.

I'm willing to bet my house, my car, and my Pomeranian that he didn't stop looking at porn.

He just stopped doing whatever it was that kept getting him CAUGHT looking at porn. :rofl:


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## Middle of Everything

Luv2travel said:


> I'm in the same boat you are OP. I've been married just over a year and am sexually frustrated by the lack of sex. DH says he has a high sex drive and probably pleasures himself at least 3-4x per week with the help of porn. If I have to use his computer for any reason there are about six porn websites that I see saved in his browser. Then there are favorite porn stars. And he chats with these women too. He sees nothing wrong with it. He knows I don't like it, but he said he is a visual person.
> 
> I initiate sex and ask for more sex. I dress up in outfits he likes, etc. When we have sex it's excellent, but just not enough.
> 
> I don't know what to do either.


Take the power cable from his computer. When he goes to turn it on and cant, be there waiting, naked and holding that damn cable.

Explain to him if he wants to see tits, ass, and ***** he has all of that right here. Even better because he can actually touch them. Then be prepared to have wild ENTHUSIASTIC sex with him.

Later explain as others have said thats its you or the porn girls. Be prepared to go through with leaving him as has been mentioned as well.

Porn can be fun when used together by a couple when both agree upon its use. But a guy whacking it to porn chicks and chatting them up at the 1 year mark in a marriage? **** that. Guy needs help.


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## uhtred

Its not as simple as preferring porn over marriage. There is the question of what is is or is not reasonable to ask in a marriage. 

Is it reasonable to ask your spouse to never masturbate? Or to never read a book that you don't OK? Or not watch a TV show because you think it is bad?

I'm not trying to trivialize porn, but trying to point out that there are limits to what restrictions are reasonable to put on a spouse.

Lets say my wife said she would divorce me unless I stopped watching Game of Thrones because it includes incest. I would say "go ahead", not because it is more *important* than my marriage, but because the desire to control someone's TV watching is outside of the bounds of what I consider to be reasonable in marriage. 




Diana7 said:


> OH yes you have to be prepared to go through with it. If he said goodbye, then that would show how little he though of his wife. For this lady it worked.
> I would rather be divorced than have a husband who thought porn was more important than his marriage.


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## Andy1001

uhtred said:


> Its not as simple as preferring porn over marriage. There is the question of what is is or is not reasonable to ask in a marriage.
> 
> Is it reasonable to ask your spouse to never masturbate? Or to never read a book that you don't OK? Or not watch a TV show because you think it is bad?
> 
> I'm not trying to trivialize porn, but trying to point out that there are limits to what restrictions are reasonable to put on a spouse.
> 
> Lets say my wife said she would divorce me unless I stopped watching Game of Thrones because it includes incest. I would say "go ahead", not because it is more *important* than my marriage, but because the desire to control someone's TV watching is outside of the bounds of what I consider to be reasonable in marriage.


I would divorce any wife that asked me to watch game of thrones lol.


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## Elizabeth001

Andy1001 said:


> I would divorce any wife that asked me to watch game of thrones lol.




Yes but...winter IS coming. 

hehe


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## Andy1001

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yes but...winter IS coming.
> 
> hehe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If that's an insider joke then I'm afraid I don't get it.🤔


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## Luv2travel

You all are cracking me up! lol

I feel that soft porn has its place (i.e. when single, when wife/girlfriend is on period or out of town, etc). Otherwise, one's sexual energy should be invested in the relationship. 

But yes, I knew about the porn use before marriage. I thought marriage and living together would change things as we'd have more time together. I am not considering divorce over the issue as I love my husband and he is wonderful guy. And I'm not saying he can't ever pleasure himself. See examples above. Maybe I'll have to talk to him using a different approach.


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## Elizabeth001

Andy1001 said:


> If that's an insider joke then I'm afraid I don't get it.




No sh1t 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

Lauren123 said:


> What I was trying to convey is that he knows I'm open and willing to try new things whenever and that I put effort into keeping our sex life healthy, fun, spontaneous, and sexy.


A porn video is the same thing as a romance novel to a woman. Unrealistic, yet desired.

You have to understand that, since about age 12, your man has had sex on his mind at least half of every day. Of every year. It's just how men were built.

ARE you making your times in bed as adventurous as a porn video? Are you being the person changing things? Trying new stuff? That's what most men dream of. 

That said, if he goes to the porn all the time, he has a problem.


----------



## turnera

Luv2travel said:


> You all are cracking me up! lol
> 
> I feel that soft porn has its place (i.e. when single, when wife/girlfriend is on period or out of town, etc). Otherwise, one's sexual energy should be invested in the relationship.
> 
> But yes, I knew about the porn use before marriage. I thought marriage and living together would change things as we'd have more time together. I am not considering divorce over the issue as I love my husband and he is wonderful guy. And I'm not saying he can't ever pleasure himself. See examples above. Maybe I'll have to talk to him using a different approach.


 The only times there's been porn in our house has been when my husband and I went TOGETHER to the adult store and picked out videos we wanted to watch together. Are you making it a 'sin' to him where he has to hide it from you like he would with his mother? Or are you making it a tool you two can use together?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Luv2travel said:


> You all are cracking me up! lol
> 
> I feel that soft porn has its place (i.e. when single, when wife/girlfriend is on period or out of town, etc). Otherwise, one's sexual energy should be invested in the relationship.


Well that's a sweet (but very *unrealistic*) view. Most men don't seek out 'soft porn' to watch while they do their business. If they want to watch a couple simulating sex with a potted plant blocking their view, they'd watch prime time TV. 



> But yes, I knew about the porn use before marriage. I thought marriage and living together would change things as we'd have more time together. I am not considering divorce over the issue as I love my husband and he is wonderful guy. And I'm not saying he can't ever pleasure himself. See examples above. Maybe I'll have to talk to him using a different approach.


I have to say, women who think they can *control *what men look at, when they look at it, what they look at, how they feel, what they think about and _when_ they masturbate (good lord), will be SORELY disappointed when they find out how very *wrong* that assumption is.

You have this Biblical view of your husband and how you think he should be behaving but in the real world, it seems most guys really don't seem to think this way. We do have members here who DO think this way, but they're pretty rare.


----------



## thefam

I absolutely HATE porn watching. I don't mind performing "porn-like" in the bedroom with my husband but porn watching I'm totally against. My opinion is that the filming of porn is demeaning and disrespectful to men and women. If my husband wants a porn-like experience he can come to me to get it. 

That being said we pretty much have a "don't ask don't tell" policy.


----------



## Blondilocks

Well, if people prefer having sex with themselves, then they have no business being married.


----------



## uhtred

That's an interesting different angle on this - is porn harmful to the actors. 

Its a tricky question. Some porn production is certainly abusive. I don't mean in the BDSM sense but that women are force financially (or even worse) into doing porn. Other case though it seems that actors / actresses are happy with their jobs - top porn stars make a startling amount of money and at least claim to be happy with their jobs. 

Its difficult to tell when people are lying in interviews. There was the college student who was "outed". In interviews she basically said that she could work one weekend a month doing porn (which she didn't mind) and make $2000, or she could work all evening every evening while trying to study and make half as much. 

Then there are the home porn types. Some are doing it for money, but some see to really just be exhibitionists who get off on being watched. (YKIOK) 







thefam said:


> I absolutely HATE porn watching. I don't mind performing "porn-like" in the bedroom with my husband but porn watching I'm totally against. My opinion is that the filming of porn is demeaning and disrespectful to men and women. If my husband wants a porn-like experience he can come to me to get it.
> 
> That being said we pretty much have a "don't ask don't tell" policy.


----------



## turnera

I interviewed a stripper once for a film class I was taking. She was a college student. She didn't see sex as some holy thing she had to share only with her one true love. It was just sex. And she enjoyed it as much as the next person. So why not make good money at it instead of a drudge minimum-wage job and pay for school?

I think some people are assuming that everyone is of the former opinion while many people in fact are of the latter.


----------



## Wantpeace

Almost every job requires the use of a body. I never been a porn actor but my body was used hard as an object or just another tool for the sake of making money. Worst is loosing your mind, heart, soul, self identity to a job. Anyway you look at it work is pimping yourself out trading valuable time out of life for money. May as well have a good paying job so you have less time working and can what you want with your life.


----------



## uhtred

Different people are suited to different jobs. For me, toll booth collector would be the word possible job. Boring, noisy, lots of car / truck fumes etc. For others it might be fine. Porn star is an absolutely horrible job for some, but might be fine for others.


----------



## bbrad

Luv2travel said:


> I'm in the same boat you are OP. I've been married just over a year and am sexually frustrated by the lack of sex. DH says he has a high sex drive and probably pleasures himself at least 3-4x per week with the help of porn. If I have to use his computer for any reason there are about six porn websites that I see saved in his browser. Then there are favorite porn stars. And he chats with these women too. He sees nothing wrong with it. He knows I don't like it, but he said he is a visual person.
> 
> I initiate sex and ask for more sex. I dress up in outfits he likes, etc. When we have sex it's excellent, but just not enough.
> 
> I don't know what to do either.


Wow, he SHOULD feel like he is the lucky to be with you. You two are in the beginning of your marriage, the hot and heavy stage. He will come to regret not knowing how good he has it.


----------



## csulk22

I personally don't have an issue with porn. It's better than him going out and getting the real thing! There should be moderation though..if he's watching more porn than paying attention to you, there's a problem.


----------



## Luv2travel

I spoke with my husband and he agreed he has a problem with porn. It's been a habit for many years. And it interfered with our sex life. I wanted more, but he was already satisfied from watching porn. 

He's many several large changes (i.e. coming home from work earlier so more time together, showering after work and not being all sweaty for hours, and we installed a porn blocker on all his devices. In return he gets much more sex, massages, and home cooked meals. 

Once we figure out how much sex I need each week (on average), he can supplement with masturbation. I think he has a higher sex drive, but not by a lot. Our sexual communication and intimacy has also increased. 

We'll keeping using these strategies for a while until the habit is changed. I'm really proud of him. He said he didn't realize how porn affected me and us (i.e. my self-esteem, my resentment of extra time he spent at office not at home, and of course of reduced sex life).


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> I interviewed a stripper once for a film class I was taking. She was a college student. She didn't see sex as some holy thing she had to share only with her one true love. *It was just sex. And she enjoyed it as much as the next person*. So why not make good money at it instead of a drudge minimum-wage job and pay for school?
> 
> *I think some people are assuming that everyone is of the former opinion while many people in fact are of the latter.*


I think this is the hardest lesson I have ever learned.

When one does not want to believe something they rationalize to the point of redundancy.
To the point of making oneself 'blue in the face'.

Being judgemental is a big anchor around one's gray matter. My thinking.
......................................................................................

I rue this day....

When [the majority] of women look at sex this way-
When [the majority] of men accept this fact about women. I want to be really dead.....not dust, not a ghost.

Hedonism in....
Chivalry gone.

No need for a cloak, to cover her path. Keep her feet clean...nah!
Let the **** get her feet wet.

Just Sayin'


----------



## Faithful Wife

SunCMars said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> I interviewed a stripper once for a film class I was taking. She was a college student. She didn't see sex as some holy thing she had to share only with her one true love. *It was just sex. And she enjoyed it as much as the next person*. So why not make good money at it instead of a drudge minimum-wage job and pay for school?
> 
> *I think some people are assuming that everyone is of the former opinion while many people in fact are of the latter.*
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is the hardest lesson I have ever learned.
> 
> When one does not want to believe something they rationalize to the point of redundancy.
> To the point of making oneself 'blue in the face'.
> 
> Being judgemental is a big anchor around one's gray matter. My thinking.
> ......................................................................................
> 
> I rue this day....
> 
> When [the majority] of women look at sex this way-
> When [the majority] of men accept this fact about women. I want to be really dead.....not dust, not a ghost.
> 
> Hedonism in....
> Chivalry gone.
> 
> No need for a cloak, to cover her path. Keep her feet clean...nah!
> Let the **** get her feet wet.
> 
> Just Sayin'
Click to expand...

Nothing has changed about the nature of women. We just have enough self empowerment to choose what we actually want now in large parts of the world.

Why would that make a majority of women all want the same thing and more specifically, the things you have implied the majority would think?

As it stands right now, the majority of men do not see sex as meaningless and wish to just be free to bag any chick they can for their entire lives. If the majority of men thought this I guarantee you they would be pursuing that constantly and would never be derailed by the love of a woman or the desire for monogamy. Yet we can see clearly a huge percentage of men who want monogamy with a woman they love and respect.

Even though there will always be a percentage of men who want to just chase tail forever, we don't worry that this means somehow a huge amount of our monogamous men will suddenly change their minds and become horn dogs.

So we have now, as we always have had, a percentage of women who do not want to be monogamous and who want to explore extreme types of sex and arousal. Why does the existence of these women have to shake your belief in the sexuality of women in general? 

Just be glad that women are no longer beaten to death for even wanting to be something other than monogamous (in most parts of the world). And allow them to match up with the men who don't want to be monogamous.

And those of us who do want monogamy can match up...as we are doing now and as we have always done. 

Nothing has changed about the nature of women's sexuality. It is just becoming less of a mystery now because we are now safe to express more and more of our truths.

Neither men's nor women's sexuality are in nature wrong or immoral. We have various desired levels of monogamous behavior from strict to none. I don't know where the majority lies but it's probably leaning towards monogamy.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Nothing has changed about the nature of women. We just have enough self empowerment to choose what we actually want now in large parts of the world.
> 
> Why would that make a majority of women all want the same thing and more specifically, the things you have implied the majority would think?
> 
> As it stands right now, the majority of men do not see sex as meaningless and wish to just be free to bag any chick they can for their entire lives. If the majority of men thought this I guarantee you they would be pursuing that constantly and would never be derailed by the love of a woman or the desire for monogamy. Yet we can see clearly a huge percentage of men who want monogamy with a woman they love and respect.
> 
> Even though there will always be a percentage of men who want to just chase tail forever, we don't worry that this means somehow a huge amount of our monogamous men will suddenly change their minds and become horn dogs.
> 
> So we have now, as we always have had, a percentage of women who do not want to be monogamous and who want to explore extreme types of sex and arousal. Why does the existence of these women have to shake your belief in the sexuality of women in general?
> 
> Just be glad that women are no longer beaten to death for even wanting to be something other than monogamous (in most parts of the world). And allow them to match up with the men who don't want to be monogamous.
> 
> And those of us who do want monogamy can match up...as we are doing now and as we have always done.
> 
> Nothing has changed about the nature of women's sexuality. It is just becoming less of a mystery now because we are now safe to express more and more of our truths.
> 
> Neither men's nor women's sexuality are in nature wrong or immoral. We have various desired levels of monogamous behavior from strict to none. I don't know where the majority lies but it's probably leaning towards monogamy.


From a man...marvelous post.


----------



## Diana7

Luv2travel said:


> I spoke with my husband and he agreed he has a problem with porn. It's been a habit for many years. And it interfered with our sex life. I wanted more, but he was already satisfied from watching porn.
> 
> He's many several large changes (i.e. coming home from work earlier so more time together, showering after work and not being all sweaty for hours, and we installed a porn blocker on all his devices. In return he gets much more sex, massages, and home cooked meals.
> 
> Once we figure out how much sex I need each week (on average), he can supplement with masturbation. I think he has a higher sex drive, but not by a lot. Our sexual communication and intimacy has also increased.
> 
> We'll keeping using these strategies for a while until the habit is changed. I'm really proud of him. He said he didn't realize how porn affected me and us (i.e. my self-esteem, my resentment of extra time he spent at office not at home, and of course of reduced sex life).


Sounds positive, although its hard to see how any man cant know how much their porn use is affecting them, their wives and their marriages.


----------



## Diana7

Faithful Wife said:


> Nothing has changed about the nature of women. We just have enough self empowerment to choose what we actually want now in large parts of the world.
> 
> Why would that make a majority of women all want the same thing and more specifically, the things you have implied the majority would think?
> 
> As it stands right now, the majority of men do not see sex as meaningless and wish to just be free to bag any chick they can for their entire lives. If the majority of men thought this I guarantee you they would be pursuing that constantly and would never be derailed by the love of a woman or the desire for monogamy. Yet we can see clearly a huge percentage of men who want monogamy with a woman they love and respect.
> 
> Even though there will always be a percentage of men who want to just chase tail forever, we don't worry that this means somehow a huge amount of our monogamous men will suddenly change their minds and become horn dogs.
> 
> So we have now, as we always have had, a percentage of women who do not want to be monogamous and who want to explore extreme types of sex and arousal. Why does the existence of these women have to shake your belief in the sexuality of women in general?
> 
> Just be glad that women are no longer beaten to death for even wanting to be something other than monogamous (in most parts of the world). And allow them to match up with the men who don't want to be monogamous.
> 
> And those of us who do want monogamy can match up...as we are doing now and as we have always done.
> 
> Nothing has changed about the nature of women's sexuality. It is just becoming less of a mystery now because we are now safe to express more and more of our truths.
> 
> Neither men's nor women's sexuality are in nature wrong or immoral. We have various desired levels of monogamous behavior from strict to none. I don't know where the majority lies but it's probably leaning towards monogamy.


The majority is more than leaning towards monogamy, but greatly in favour of monogamy, which is why most people end up married or in a long term relationship.


----------



## blugreg

I have watched porn for many years! Several years ago I did enjoy watching porn and masturbating then having sex with my wife. Mainly, because we had small children and we generally had to sneak to have sex. It was always an ordeal and my wife never initiated sex! It was always on me to find a time and place, and to ask! Secondly, my wife wasn't very adventuresome and was not affectionate! She loved me and seemed to enjoy sex once we had it but it wasn't a priority! Several years later with the children older our sex life has improved and I don't watch porn very often! I usually only watch it when I am anticipating that we might have sex that night or in a day or so. I gets me motivated! I've asked her to watch it with me, and she kind of does, but it doesnt seem to do much for her!


----------



## Steve1000

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


One big problem is that your husband is not mature enough to sit down with you and talk with you about this. Trying to instead hide this erodes the overall trust you have for him. Nothing is worth losing the trust of a spouse. 

Porn is a subjective issue. If my wife cared that I occasionally view porn, I would explain to her that I personally don't care about the women or their looks. Most are not pleasing to the eyes. I simply enjoyed watching two people have enthusiastic sex. I would 100X prefer to have sex with my wife. I would have zero problem never watching porn if my wife wanted to make love a few times per week.


----------



## CuddleBug

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?




I can only speak for myself. a married man, 18 years or so.....wow.:grin2:


The only times I view porn is due to Mrs.CuddleBugs low sex drive LD and since I have a high sex drive HD, I can only go so long with little to almost no physicality and sex.


I see porn as a pressure release from the lack of sex in my marriage. I'd rather do that instead of meeting ladies who just want friends with benefits.......very easy to do and many ladies out there are into that.


If Mrs.CuddleBug had a healthy high sex drive, my porn viewing would be zero because I completely forget about porn altogether to be honest. And I don't need sex every day, multiple times. 3 days week sex and 4 days week no sex still works for me.


I don't know if this helps you but its my life experience so far.


If Mrs.CuddleBug wanted to watch porn with me, try new things and it gets her really in the mood, yes, I'd watch porn with her.


----------



## DoneIn

For some people its a take it or leave it thing. For others, the dopamine it produces becomes addictive and they need more, more, more...then on to something like an affair or a prostitute. Its a slippery slope for some, like my SO. Its a pass time that has no deep effect for others. I would rather steer clear because it seems to me it deadens, instead of enhances, real sexual intimacy.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Diana7 said:


> There are still many men who dont look at it, despite the fact that sadly porn use is so prevalent now.


Ahh...but can you name all 8 of them who don't? :grin2:


----------



## introvert

I'm not hetero, but both my gf and I watch porn occasionally...sometimes alone, sometimes together. The difference is, we are totally into each other when we see each other (LDR) and we both have high sex drives. Sometimes, I see something really hot and send it along to her to see if she agrees and wants to do whatever the particular scene is.

It's hot to see people ****ing.

It sounds like the OP's husband turns to porn over having sex with her, and that's definitely not okay.


----------



## SoFlaGuy

Diana7 said:


> The majority is more than leaning towards monogamy, but greatly in favour of monogamy, which is why most people end up married or in a long term relationship.


I think most say they do but , reportedly, over a third of men and 20% of women cheat, then there is the high divorce rate so long term/ life time monogomy? Those numbers shrink.


----------



## CatholicDad

True Christian men don't use porn and not because we are prudes or hate it. We have self control. We save ourselves for our wives and it actually makes us value them more fully. I'd say it also makes us more attracted to our wives because sex is entirely focused on them and not just a cheap copy of something we saw. Sex becomes about all of our senses and not just eyes and ears. Don't believe that men must have porn to live. That's a lie.


----------



## uhtred

I don't know what you mean by "true". There are men who identify as Christian who watch porn, and those who don't. I don't think there are any clear references to porn in the bible. (it did exist in the form of art when the bible was written)




CatholicDad said:


> True Christian men don't use porn and not because we are prudes or hate it. We have self control. We save ourselves for our wives and it actually makes us value them more fully. I'd say it also makes us more attracted to our wives because sex is entirely focused on them and not just a cheap copy of something we saw. Sex becomes about all of our senses and not just eyes and ears. Don't believe that men must have porn to live. That's a lie.


----------



## minimalME

uhtred said:


> I don't know what you mean by "true". There are men who identify as Christian who watch porn, and those who don't. I don't think there are any clear references to porn in the bible. (it did exist in the form of art when the bible was written)


The Bible doesn't address pornography, but Jesus was super clear about what constitutes adultery.


----------



## Diana7

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ahh...but can you name all 8 of them who don't? :grin2:


I could name many but this is a public forum.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> The Bible doesn't address pornography, but Jesus was super clear about what constitutes adultery.



It does in this verse. 

Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 

That's why people look at porn, to lust over the people they see in it. So basically when we look at porn we are committing adultery of the heart, and for many who watch it that would be many thousands of people they are doing it with.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> I don't know what you mean by "true". There are men who identify as Christian who watch porn, and those who don't. I don't think there are any clear references to porn in the bible. (it did exist in the form of art when the bible was written)


I cant see how any man who is following Jesus Christ could justify lusting after all those porn actresses, when Jesus clearly says that's wrong. Yes some Christians do this, but they mainly know they shouldn't be.


----------



## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> It does in this verse.
> 
> Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
> 
> That's why people look at porn, to lust over the people they see in it. So basically when we look at porn we are committing adultery of the heart, and for many who watch it that would be many thousands of people they are doing it with.


Let me restate for those who wish to be difficult - the Bible does not use the word 'pornography'.

You basically just said the same thing I did. Thanks for adding the verse.


----------



## Diana7

CatholicDad said:


> True Christian men don't use porn and not because we are prudes or hate it. We have self control. We save ourselves for our wives and it actually makes us value them more fully. I'd say it also makes us more attracted to our wives because sex is entirely focused on them and not just a cheap copy of something we saw. Sex becomes about all of our senses and not just eyes and ears. Don't believe that men must have porn to live. That's a lie.


 I agree, I would never marry a man who used porn. Its deadly for a marriage and so disrespectful and unloving for the wife. 
I hear many men saying well if my wife gave me more sex I wouldn't need porn, what nonsense. No one 'needs' porn, they like porn, two different things.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> Let me restate for those who wish to be difficult - the Bible does not use the word 'pornography'.
> 
> You basically just said the same thing I did. Thanks for adding the verse.


Its interesting that Jesus sometimes uses the Greek word 'pornea' which means sexual immorality. Its where our word porn comes from.


----------



## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Its interesting that Jesus sometimes uses the Greek word 'pornea' which means sexual immorality. Its where our word porn comes from.


Do you get off on being so difficult? 

I used to wonder why I read so many posts where you were getting picked on. Now I understand.

The Bible does not directly address the use of pornography. The Bible does not specifically use the word 'pornography' - even in relation to obscene paintings of the time.

But thanks for the root word lesson.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

minimalME said:


> Do you get off on being so difficult?
> 
> I used to wonder why I read so many posts where you were getting picked on. Now I understand.


Yes, it is her pornography. And when you start to quote Jesus, keep in mind that Jesus did not write the Bible. The Bible as you know it was written by wealthy, arrogant, filthy Popes, Cardinals and Kings as a way to control people as much as unify them. Viewed as parables and moral learning stories the Bible, and Christianity, can unify and strengthen communities, families and couples. That is great. But if used as a tool to judge and condemn others, then you are no closer to God than those you look down upon.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> Do you get off on being so difficult?
> 
> I used to wonder why I read so many posts where you were getting picked on. Now I understand.
> 
> The Bible does not directly address the use of pornography. The Bible does not specifically use the word 'pornography' - even in relation to obscene paintings of the time.
> 
> But thanks for the root word lesson.


The exact words that we use to day aren't in the bible, nor do they need to be. We are told not to lust after others and that's what happens in porn. Also to be faithful to our spouse. How is that so hard to get?


----------



## Diana7

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Yes, it is her pornography. And when you start to quote Jesus, keep in mind that Jesus did not write the Bible. The Bible as you know it was written by wealthy, arrogant, filthy Popes, Cardinals and Kings as a way to control people as much as unify them. Viewed as parables and moral learning stories the Bible, and Christianity, can unify and strengthen communities, families and couples. That is great. But if used as a tool to judge and condemn others, then you are no closer to God than those you look down upon.


The Bible was written by many people and inspired by God. None of it was written by popes. 
Its a guide as to how we are to live if we want to follow Him. If people aren't following Him then they can do what they like including watching porn if they choose to.


----------



## uhtred

It is a good quote, but is looking at a picture the same at looking at a "woman"?

I think you are probably right, but since a lot of christians watch porn, either they are sinners or they disagree with this interpretation.

I'm not a Christian myself so this isn't an issue for me. 




Diana7 said:


> It does in this verse.
> 
> Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
> 
> That's why people look at porn, to lust over the people they see in it. So basically when we look at porn we are committing adultery of the heart, and for many who watch it that would be many thousands of people they are doing it with.


----------



## uhtred

People who claim to follow Jesus do all sort of things, and they also disagree with each other about how to interpret things in the bible.



Diana7 said:


> I cant see how any man who is following Jesus Christ could justify lusting after all those porn actresses, when Jesus clearly says that's wrong. Yes some Christians do this, but they mainly know they shouldn't be.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

How come every thread with a title like "Do most men like Porn?" or "Do men really prefer Blonds?" or "What is it about Halter Tops?" quickly turns into a religious struggle? Porn is just a tool men (and women, to a much lesser extent) use to masturbate. I much, much prefer having sex with Mrs Wedge to masturbating. It feels great, is always available (as long as she's home and awake), and seeing her enjoy it brings me that much more pleasure.

But Mrs Wedge travels out of town on business often. And she usually goes to bed much earlier than I do. So I often find myself with an urge that she is unable to help me with in the then and there. I thank God that he made it feel so darned good to rub my penis. Thank you God! Last week the Mrs was on the other side of the country all week, and I masturbated to porn every night. And the night she got home, after some family time, dinner and baths for everyone, we had great, loving, respectful, orgasmic sex. 

Pornography does have many bad social aspects, but using it as the simple base tool it is meant to be (for me and I assume most men) has no affect on my love or respect for my wife. Or the wife before that. We had great sex too, but she was a bipolar addictive psycho-sl-t. As someone else said, there's nothing wrong with drinking wine, unless that becomes all-important to you and therefore abused and toxic.

If your husband masturbates in his free time a few times a week but is happy to be intimate with you when he has the chance, then I see no problem. But if he's beating it like a rented mule and telling you he's too tired, then that's the problem. It's His usage of porn, not the porn itself.


----------



## Machjo

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


I don't watch porn but I did by secretly accessing my father's in my teens. I now depend on Screentime and Mobicip on my phone to limit my internet access to within safe limits more due to internet addiction but to prevent compulsive porn watching too.

I can't speak for all men, but I think at least some men such as I absolutely should not watch porn. My case is particular though since I also suffer trauma from past emotional and sexual abuse and have accessed porn in my formative years.

I would say that at least two particular categories of men should not watch porn:

1. Those for whom watching porn falls outside the agreed boundaries of their marriage, and

3. Addicts. I don't mean just porn addicts, or internet addicts, or sex addicts, but any addict. The reason for this is that any behavioural addiction reveals an underlying mental-health problem that one needs to address. In other words, a behavioural addiction proves that a person has an addictive personality and so is more prone to developing an addiction to porn either to replace his previous compulsive behaviour or to supplement it.

To reverse the roles for a moment, would I separate from my wife if she watched porn? Not necessarily. It does fall outside of the agreed boundaries of our marriage, so the reason I wouldn't necessarily separate from her for this would not be since I would accept it but more since I would forgive her for it. People can do far worse things than that, but I also recognize the danger of porn addiction escalating to other forms of sex addiction over time.

However, I would definitely want her to stop and offer to help her if she needed help to do so. If she didn't want to stop and refused help to do so, I still wouldn't necessarily separate from her just for that alone but it certainly could undermine my trust in her and so could negatively impact our marriage over time.

But again, the above applies to me and my marriage and each person has to make his own choice and each couple has to set its own boundaries.


----------



## Machjo

One thing I will say though is that even if the couple accept porn, they have a responsibility to ensure that it does not directly or indirectly affect their children in any way and definitely that their children cannot access it. Porn does affect a developing mind well into his teens and even into adulthood.


----------



## Machjo

MJJEAN said:


> And you brought to mind a happy memory for me! Back in the day, my friend Jay used to host "Cheesy Porn Night". A bunch of us would meet at his house, drink wine, eat snacks, watch really bad porn brought by one of the guests, and make fun of it. Somewhere in the world is a clown porn. In this porn, every time the clown ejaculates, he shoots....wait for it...popcorn! Hilariously bad!


I watched porn with a friend at my or his parent's house when I was a teen. In my late teens, I became sickened by it yet hooked to it. Once I left home, I did what I had to do to avoid it due to the impact it was having on my sexuality. It was definitely making me objectify women and making me sexually compulsive. It also exacerbated boundary issues that I struggled with.


----------



## Machjo

Vinnydee said:


> Masturbating too much to porn is also harmful as it means you are less likely to want sex with your wife as often. Much easier to masturbate. Another danger is when men get into sexual fetishes that their wives will not try. That is when they watch their fetish sex online and masturbate to it. After a while they are conditioned so that regular sex does not arouse them and they feel disappointed with their sex life.


That would become a problem with my wife since she enjoys only vanilla sex. When I watched porn, it quickly gravitated towards BDSM which definitely affected my sexual fantasies.


----------



## MJJEAN

Machjo said:


> I watched porn with a friend at my or his parent's house when I was a teen. In my late teens, I became sickened by it yet hooked to it. Once I left home, I did what I had to do to avoid it due to the impact it was having on my sexuality. It was definitely making me objectify women and making me sexually compulsive. It also exacerbated boundary issues that I struggled with.


We have vastly different experiences with porn use. I think it's a lot like alcohol. Some people can use it in moderation and have a good time. Others cannot and become addicted, it negatively affects their lives, they must kick the addiction, and avoid use in the future.


----------



## Machjo

MJJEAN said:


> We have vastly different experiences with porn use. I think it's a lot like alcohol. Some people can use it in moderation and have a good time. Others cannot and become addicted, it negatively affects their lives, they must kick the addiction, and avoid use in the future.


True, but I think age plays a role too. For example, a person who consumes alcohol as a teen during his formative years is more prone to alcoholism. It would make sense that a person exposed to porn in adolescence when his brain is still developing (and especially if he's suffered past abuse) will be more prone to porn addiction.

I love my dad in spite of everything, but I do think it's highly irresponsible to allow a teen access to porn.


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## Diana7

uhtred said:


> It is a good quote, but is looking at a picture the same at looking at a "woman"?
> 
> I think you are probably right, but since a lot of christians watch porn, either they are sinners or they disagree with this interpretation.
> 
> I'm not a Christian myself so this isn't an issue for me.



Porn is made with real women and men so yes its the same. Its not known how many Christians watch porn, but there are many who dont.


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## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ahh...but can you name all 8 of them who don't? :grin2:


Only 3 left now unfortunately. 5 of them died of spermotoxicosis; a complication from acute sperm buildup.


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## Machjo

One thing that makes me curious is how a spouse would react to another's asking for help.

I was already using screen-blocking apps and filtered browsers on my smart phone before I'd even met my wife. I used a separate e-mail address as the password-resend email and programmed the app to block that email address from my device. That meant I'd have to go to the library during its open hours to get the password online. I was straight with my wife about my internet addiction before we married; and though she found it strange that I as a grown adult should have installed such apps on my phone for my own use, she still accepted it. I would be curious to know how most people would react if a person installed such an app on his device and asked his spouse if he could use her e-mail address as the password-resend email for example.


----------



## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> Only 3 left now unfortunately. 5 of them died of spermotoxicosis; a complication from acute sperm buildup.


Wet dreams and sex with spouse take care of that.


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## MJJEAN

Machjo said:


> True, but I think age plays a role too. For example, a person who consumes alcohol as a teen during his formative years is more prone to alcoholism. It would make sense that a person exposed to porn in adolescence when his brain is still developing (and especially if he's suffered past abuse) will be more prone to porn addiction.
> 
> I love my dad in spite of everything, but I do think it's highly irresponsible to allow a teen access to porn.


If the person in question has an addictive personality, probably. 

I first started seeing porn in my tweens and teens. So did DH. Even in the heyday of our porn use we didn't indulge more than once or twice a week and usually together as extra spice. Now, we've gotten bored with most of whats of offer and rarely bother.



Machjo said:


> One thing that makes me curious is how a spouse would react to another's asking for help.
> 
> I was already using screen-blocking apps and filtered browsers on my smart phone before I'd even met my wife. I used a separate e-mail address as the password-resend email and programmed the app to block that email address from my device. That meant I'd have to go to the library during its open hours to get the password online. I was straight with my wife about my internet addiction before we married; and though she found it strange that I as a grown adult should have installed such apps on my phone for my own use, she still accepted it. I would be curious to know how most people would react if a person installed such an app on his device and asked his spouse if he could use her e-mail address as the password-resend email for example.


I, like your wife, would thing it's strange, but I'd help if asked.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> It does in this verse.
> 
> Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
> 
> That's why people look at porn, to lust over the people they see in it. So basically when we look at porn *we are committing adultery of the heart*, and for many who watch it that would be many thousands of people they are doing it with.


I have never masturbated with my heart. Sounds exhausting.
Also, whenever I looked at porn I didn't 'lust' after anybody. 
Wasn't Jesus friends with prostitutes?


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## 269370

Machjo said:


> Wet dreams and sex with spouse take care of that.


Keep dreaming...Spouses don't have sex. Haven't you read? 0

So if you have a wet dream from having sex with 72 virgins (with 72 wet stains), is it considered a sin?


----------



## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> I have never masturbated with my heart. Sounds exhausting.
> Also, whenever I looked at porn I didn't 'lust' after anybody.
> Wasn't Jesus friends with prostitutes?


If you take fornicating with a heart literally, then that would suggest some serious mental-health problems.


----------



## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> Keep dreaming...Spouses don't have sex. Haven't you read? 0
> 
> So if you have a wet dream from having sex with 72 virgins (with 72 wet stains), is it considered a sin?


Not if you're dreaming since you can't control your dreams, right?


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## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> True Christian men don't use porn and not because we are prudes or hate it. We have self control. We save ourselves for our wives and it actually makes us value them more fully. I'd say it also makes us more attracted to our wives because sex is entirely focused on them and not just a cheap copy of something we saw. Sex becomes about all of our senses and not just eyes and ears. Don't believe that men must have porn to live. That's a lie.


Provided the wives want us to 'save ourselves' for them. Our jizz juice is so unique and special...I bet they are very appreciative and can't wait to release all our savings for us, instead of handing out a towel with the words: 'here, take care of this ****e outside'.
Porn is simply filling a 'gap in the market'. There is not much else to it.


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## 269370

Machjo said:


> Not if you're dreaming since you can't control your dreams, right?


I thought god can. Is he just teasing or perhaps it means that he would want us to enjoy ourselves, at least in our dreams.


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## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> I thought god can. Is he just teasing or perhaps it means that he would want us to enjoy ourselves, at least in our dreams.


God works in mysterious ways.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I cant see how any man who is following Jesus Christ could justify lusting after all those porn actresses, when Jesus clearly says that's wrong. Yes some Christians do this, but they mainly know they shouldn't be.


Most men who look at porn don't lust after the actresses. They imagine the sex act and it helps them get to the point quicker. 'cos we can't be sitting there wanking 24/7, we have jobs and stuff. And many of our wives have migraines (for some reason, it tends to coincide with whenever sperm is in the air).
Jesus was quite clear about this.


----------



## SoFlaGuy

@Lauren123
Do you think he's hiding it because he knows it will bother you? Are you open to watching it with him? or is it something you're morally opposed to? Is your sex life negatively affected by it?
I view porn as entertaiment or even a tool that my wife and I can occasionally share in. It can open up discussion for trying something new or different. Like anything it can be abused or overindulged it but in moderation I don't view it as a problem...but that's just me and that doesn't matter to you. I've had other GF's that were uptight or insecure about it and then I would keep it private.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> It does in this verse.
> 
> Matthew 5:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
> 
> That's why people look at porn, to lust over the people they see in it. So basically when we look at porn we are committing adultery of the heart, and for many who watch it that would be many thousands of people they are doing it with.


People can watch porn without lusting over the models. They may lust for the activities presented, but that doesn't mean they want to sleep with the models demonstrating it. Porn use isn't all about wishing you were banging the person on the screen. 

Funny thing about that scripture -- it only mentions lust, not nudity or actual sexual contact. So women have been committing virtual adultery on celluloid for decades. Brad Pitt, George Clooney, before that, Tom Cruise, Robert Redford, before that Clark Gable. 

People have been swooning over others throughout history. Porn not necessary. Conversely, people can watch porn without swooning over another human--they may become aroused, but that doesn't mean they specifically want to sleep with that person.


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## MEM2020

Blond,

Perfectly said. Emphasis on the word *prefer*. 

Choosing to have sex with yourself when your spouse wants to have sex with you - is a form on betrayal - you’re cheating on them with yourself. 

However - I am sympathetic to folks who have partnered with someone who is immune to sexual feedback and bad in bed. While bad can simply be a matter of incompatible styles, it is more often a function of someone choosing to see sex as something they do TO their partner not WITH their partner. Or the mirror image of that - something they LET their partner do TO them, as opposed to WITH them. 




Blondilocks said:


> Well, if people prefer having sex with themselves, then they have no business being married.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I agree, I would never marry a man who used porn. Its deadly for a marriage and so disrespectful and unloving for the wife.
> I hear many men saying well if my wife gave me more sex I wouldn't need porn, what nonsense. No one 'needs' porn, they like porn, two different things.


So if the man needs a release, but wife is unwilling to provide it, at least not in the frequency that is desired by said man (did I mean 'said'? I meant 'sad'). Should he therefore:

1. Cry himself to sleep every night until wife might grant him access (which may be way in the future, after the second cuming).

2. Pray that his wife may one day accidentally touch his genitals (through divine intervention) so that they can finally reconnect as a couple.

3. Find a mistress or young boys (like it was customary in the biblical times).

4. Divorce

5. Watch an episode of Baywatch, occasionally, when circumstances prevent the couple to fornicate happily.

What do you reckon is the least harmful option in such circumstances?


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## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> So if the man needs a release, but wife is unwilling to provide it, at least not in the frequency that is desired by said man (did I mean 'said'? I meant 'sad'). Should he therefore:
> 
> 1. Cry himself to sleep every night until wife might grant him access (which may be way in the future, after the second cuming).
> 
> 2. Pray that his wife may one day accidentally touch his genitals (through divine intervention) so that they can finally reconnect as a couple.
> 
> 3. Find a mistress or young boys (like it was customary in the biblical times).
> 
> 4. Divorce
> 
> 5. Watch an episode of Baywatch, occasionally, when circumstances prevent the couple to fornicate happily.
> 
> What do you reckon is the least harmful option in such circumstances?


Discuss your boundaries before you marry and then maintain them.


----------



## 269370

Machjo said:


> Discuss your boundaries before you marry and then maintain them.


That's because...people always stick to their word after they get married? By then you might have 8 hungry children, a stressful job, a mortgage and private schools to pay. Watching bouncy titties during sexual drought seems like a reasonable compromise as opposed to getting a divorce over (hopefully) temporary lack of sex.
(Though that's very different from someone who prefers porn over sex with their wives...That's something I *don't* understand. Unless they are very, very bad in bed...Which I would probably still not understand).


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Only 3 left now unfortunately. 5 of them died of spermotoxicosis; a complication from acute sperm buildup.


I find it interesting that you think that men cant masturbate without porn. Also that men who don't look at porn dont have sex or masturbate. They do, they just don't use porn in and for either of those things.


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> So if the man needs a release, but wife is unwilling to provide it, at least not in the frequency that is desired by said man (did I mean 'said'? I meant 'sad'). Should he therefore:
> 
> 1. Cry himself to sleep every night until wife might grant him access (which may be way in the future, after the second cuming).
> 
> 2. Pray that his wife may one day accidentally touch his genitals (through divine intervention) so that they can finally reconnect as a couple.
> 
> 3. Find a mistress or young boys (like it was customary in the biblical times).
> 
> 4. Divorce
> 
> 5. Watch an episode of Baywatch, occasionally, when circumstances prevent the couple to fornicate happily.
> 
> What do you reckon is the least harmful option in such circumstances?


6. masturbate if he needs that release but don't use porn. That's what men used to do in the not too distance past.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> 6. masturbate if he needs that release but don't use porn. That's what men used to do in the not too distance past.




But that’s not what they did though! Many men used REAL people to do that; prostitutes, mistresses, rape, drawings...
The use of prostitutes and rape has gone down proportionately since the advent of porn. I think it would be foolish to ignore statistics...


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----------



## minimalME

inmyprime said:


> But that’s not what they did though! Many men used REAL people to do that; prostitutes, mistresses, rape, drawings...
> The use of prostitutes and rape has gone down proportionately since the advent of porn. I think it would be foolish to ignore statistics...


Yes. In third world countries where the internet isn't as accessible as it is here in the US, it's socially acceptable to have mistresses - or to marry many wives. I'm specifically thinking of areas I've work in in Africa and Asia.


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## 269370

minimalME said:


> Yes. In third world countries where the internet isn't as accessible as it is here in the US, it's socially acceptable to have mistresses - or to marry many wives. I'm specifically thinking of areas I've work in in Africa and Asia.




More alarmingly, rape is much more widespread.


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## minimalME

inmyprime said:


> More alarmingly, rape is much more widespread.


Agreed. And I'd say sexual abuse of children.


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## Machjo

inmyprime said:


> But that’s not what they did though! Many men used REAL people to do that; prostitutes, mistresses, rape, drawings...
> The use of prostitutes and rape has gone down proportionately since the advent of porn. I think it would be foolish to ignore statistics...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really?

'A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity®.'
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex.aspx

And that's just the stats for male victims.


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## Machjo

minimalME said:


> Agreed. And I'd say sexual abuse of children.


Even in North America, around 3 in 10 children suffer sexual abuse. This does not include emotional and physical abuse.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Machjo said:


> Really?
> 
> 'A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity®.'
> http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex.aspx
> 
> And that's just the stats for male victims.


And this means what? What is and "unwanted sexual experience?" My HS years were full of dodging some entirely unwanted yet rather aggressive advances from females I found distasteful. 

From the report:
"18 percent reported sexual coercion by physical force"
Really? Are you telling me 18% of young men are physically incapable of defending themselves against a woman? Holy crap? If that's the case, all these reports of the younger generation being emasculated little wimps are not only founded, but it's even worse than we thought!

"31 percent said they were verbally coerced"
Dude, grow a pair! You let a girl badger you into sex you didn't want? Please. 

"26 percent described unwanted seduction by sexual behaviors"
What the hell is "unwanted seduction." If you're seduced, you wanted it. If you didn't want it, it was coercion, not seduction. If you can't tell the difference, it's no wonder you have problems. 

"The study participants consisted of 54 high school teens and 230 college students, ages 14 to 26. High school students completed the surveys on paper in the classroom. College students completed them electronically or in the classroom. "
Pretty small sample size. And not the most trustworthy group. Hard to think of this as a truly valid study.


----------



## Machjo

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And this means what? What is and "unwanted sexual experience?" My HS years were full of dodging some entirely unwanted yet rather aggressive advances from females I found distasteful.
> 
> From the report:
> "18 percent reported sexual coercion by physical force"
> Really? Are you telling me 18% of young men are physically incapable of defending themselves against a woman? Holy crap? If that's the case, all these reports of the younger generation being emasculated little wimps are not only founded, but it's even worse than we thought!
> 
> "31 percent said they were verbally coerced"
> Dude, grow a pair! You let a girl badger you into sex you didn't want? Please.
> 
> "26 percent described unwanted seduction by sexual behaviors"
> What the hell is "unwanted seduction." If you're seduced, you wanted it. If you didn't want it, it was coercion, not seduction. If you can't tell the difference, it's no wonder you have problems.
> 
> "The study participants consisted of 54 high school teens and 230 college students, ages 14 to 26. High school students completed the surveys on paper in the classroom. College students completed them electronically or in the classroom. "
> Pretty small sample size. And not the most trustworthy group. Hard to think of this as a truly valid study.


Regardless, what makes people so sexually aggressive? I imagine the stats for male abusers is probably even higher.

And on the topic of verbal manipulation, we need to consider the mental state of the person. Around 1 in 6 boys and 3 in 10 people have suffered sexual abuse as children. That can certainly affect their reaction to even mild coercion as adults.

As for a physically weaker person raping a physically stronger one, again, rape is 90% mental. For example, if a man know that he can physically launch a woman off of his body but that, by doing so, he could potentially cause her injury should she hit her head on a piece of furniture or the floor on the way down, he might hesitate. And even when raped, a person can be aroused and orgasm. So he might have only a few seconds to react.

The same applies to a woman being raped. She might get a hold of knife and have an opportunity to use it; but mentally, could she stab her attacker?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Machjo said:


> Regardless, what makes people so sexually aggressive? I imagine the stats for male abusers is probably even higher.
> 
> And on the topic of verbal manipulation, we need to consider the mental state of the person. Around 1 in 6 boys and 3 in 10 people have suffered sexual abuse as children. That can certainly affect their reaction to even mild coercion as adults.
> 
> As for a physically weaker person raping a physically stronger one, again, rape is 90% mental. For example, if a man know that he can physically launch a woman off of his body but that, by doing so, he could potentially cause her injury should she hit her head on a piece of furniture or the floor on the way down, he might hesitate. And even when raped, a person can be aroused and orgasm. So he might have only a few seconds to react.
> 
> The same applies to a woman being raped. She might get a hold of knife and have an opportunity to use it; but mentally, could she stab her attacker?


The article said it corrected for sexual abuse. And even if that is a driver, it need not be as I'm sure others who have abused are able to say no. 

Ditto fear of "hurting her." If she's assaulting you and you're worried about hurting her, then you're still crippling yourself rather than here crippling you. It's a silly excuse. And, even if that is the case, most men are perfectly capable of extricating themselves from a woman without hurting her (I have done so multiple times including as a very scrawny young teen--I was a real late bloomer, physically speakng). The difference in physical capability is generally quite wide.

He might hesitate? So what? Even with hesitation, there's still plenty of time to handle the situation. She cant forcably arouse him, mount him, and get him to shoot all within the time it takes to "hesitate." 

Okay, so this is tough for some people. Get over it.


----------



## uhtred

Why is masturbating to porn different than masturbating to a fantasy?

If the porn were computer generated images, not real women would it be OK?



Diana7 said:


> I find it interesting that you think that men cant masturbate without porn. Also that men who don't look at porn dont have sex or masturbate. They do, they just don't use porn in and for either of those things.


----------



## uhtred

A lot of rape of both men and women is not by brute physical force by by some other sort of coercion or intimidation, or intoxication or drugs. 

I have no idea of the relative rates, nor do I think its important. 



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And this means what? What is and "unwanted sexual experience?" My HS years were full of dodging some entirely unwanted yet rather aggressive advances from females I found distasteful.
> 
> From the report:
> "18 percent reported sexual coercion by physical force"
> Really? Are you telling me 18% of young men are physically incapable of defending themselves against a woman? Holy crap? If that's the case, all these reports of the younger generation being emasculated little wimps are not only founded, but it's even worse than we thought!
> 
> "31 percent said they were verbally coerced"
> Dude, grow a pair! You let a girl badger you into sex you didn't want? Please.
> 
> "26 percent described unwanted seduction by sexual behaviors"
> What the hell is "unwanted seduction." If you're seduced, you wanted it. If you didn't want it, it was coercion, not seduction. If you can't tell the difference, it's no wonder you have problems.
> 
> "The study participants consisted of 54 high school teens and 230 college students, ages 14 to 26. High school students completed the surveys on paper in the classroom. College students completed them electronically or in the classroom. "
> Pretty small sample size. And not the most trustworthy group. Hard to think of this as a truly valid study.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

uhtred said:


> A lot of rape of both men and women is not by brute physical force by by some other sort of coercion or intimidation, or intoxication or drugs.
> 
> I have no idea of the relative rates, nor do I think its important.


And coercion is as easy to defend against as physical force. And I have been able to fend off unwanted advances even when sloppy drunk. Unless drugging is to the point of total physical incapacitation or complete incoherence, I’m not buying it.


----------



## Machjo

So what makes a person so weak in the face of even mild sexual coercion?


----------



## FamilyVeteran2

Andy1001 said:


> The second thing I don't understand is a sexless marriage or relationship.I know some men say they were tricked into marriage by women pretending to enjoy sex and once they were married or the first kid arrived then sex ground to a halt.Maybe I'm being naive but I think I would have figured out during our relationship that she wasn't really enjoying herself.And from reading tam I know this works both ways,there are many women trapped in sexless marriages too.
> I firmly believe it is some ingredient in wedding cake that causes it.


Brother sometimes someone just makes the decision to quit trying. My wife is to detached to be there for me, I am emotionally withdrawn because this is the second sexless marriage iv been in. Honestly I seriously question do women like sex or am I that screwed up in picking the wrong ones sexually?

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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I find it interesting that you think that men cant masturbate without porn. Also that men who don't look at porn dont have sex or masturbate. They do, they just don't use porn in and for either of those things.



We can of course. It just takes forever...



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## 269370

Machjo said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 'A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity.'
> 
> http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> And that's just the stats for male victims.




Yes really: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault?amp


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## Wolf1974

uhtred said:


> *Why is masturbating to porn different than masturbating to a fantasy?
> *
> If the porn were computer generated images, not real women would it be OK?


it isn’t it’s just another form of control. Personally would never be with a woman trying to control my sexuality


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> But that’s not what they did though! Many men used REAL people to do that; prostitutes, mistresses, rape, drawings...
> The use of prostitutes and rape has gone down proportionately since the advent of porn. I think it would be foolish to ignore statistics...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am sure that a few men in some cultures did that.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Why is masturbating to porn different than masturbating to a fantasy?
> 
> If the porn were computer generated images, not real women would it be OK?


 The women in porn are real live women. So you would be lusting after another woman who isn't you wife. It depends on the fantasy I guess. If you are fantasising about your wife that's great. If you are fantasising about some other woman you know then that's different.


----------



## Diana7

Wolf1974 said:


> it isn’t it’s just another form of control. Personally would never be with a woman trying to control my sexuality


Thats why we all need to marry someone who shares our views on porn etc.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> We can of course. It just takes forever...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because he has never used porn it hasn't for him.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> More alarmingly, rape is much more widespread.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats because their culture is very different and their view of women is appalling. For them rape/abuse of women isn't as bad as it is for us, its nothing to do with the fact they have no porn. 

Also the majority of rapes in the west aren't reported anyway.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> Yes. In third world countries where the internet isn't as accessible as it is here in the US, it's socially acceptable to have mistresses - or to marry many wives. I'm specifically thinking of areas I've work in in Africa and Asia.


Muslims are allowed to have more than one wife that's true, but its not common in other cultures. I often wonder what happens to all the men who cant find a wife due to other man having 2 or 3. 

I cant see what having a mistress has to do with porn though. I am sure that most men who have mistresses also look at porn.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I am sure that a few men in some cultures did that.



Rape was normal in ALL cultures, pre-porn.

‘rape is normative in the Jewish and Christian scriptures" and that "While we as women and men decry rape and rape culture in civil society, we must not neglect its roots in our sacred texts and the ways in which it contributes to theologies of the human person, gender and God.’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Hebrew_Bible



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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Rape was normal in ALL cultures, pre-porn.
> 
> ‘rape is normative in the Jewish and Christian scriptures" and that "While we as women and men decry rape and rape culture in civil society, we must not neglect its roots in our sacred texts and the ways in which it contributes to theologies of the human person, gender and God.’
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Hebrew_Bible
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I realise that you are trying to justify porn use, but rape was NOT normal in all cultures then any more than it is today. Yes its always happened, just as other awful crimes have, but it wasn't normal.


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## minimalME

Diana7 said:


> Muslims are allowed to have more than one wife that's true, but its not common in other cultures. I often wonder what happens to all the men who cant find a wife due to other man having 2 or 3.


Yes, actually it is common in other cultures. I've worked in a rural community in Africa where pologamy is totally acceptable. If you want to google, you can read about others.



> I cant see what having a mistress has to do with porn though. I am sure that most men who have mistresses also look at porn.


My comment was directed at prime, and we were discussing those who have no access to the internet.


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## CatholicDad

Maxwedge 413 said:


> How come every thread with a title like "Do most men like Porn?" or "Do men really prefer Blonds?" or "What is it about Halter Tops?" quickly turns into a religious struggle? Porn is just a tool men (and women, to a much lesser extent) use to masturbate. I much, much prefer having sex with Mrs Wedge to masturbating. It feels great, is always available (as long as she's home and awake), and seeing her enjoy it brings me that much more pleasure.
> 
> But Mrs Wedge travels out of town on business often. And she usually goes to bed much earlier than I do. So I often find myself with an urge that she is unable to help me with in the then and there. I thank God that he made it feel so darned good to rub my penis. Thank you God! Last week the Mrs was on the other side of the country all week, and I masturbated to porn every night. And the night she got home, after some family time, dinner and baths for everyone, we had great, loving, respectful, orgasmic sex.
> 
> Pornography does have many bad social aspects, but using it as the simple base tool it is meant to be (for me and I assume most men) has no affect on my love or respect for my wife. Or the wife before that. We had great sex too, but she was a bipolar addictive psycho-****. As someone else said, there's nothing wrong with drinking wine, unless that becomes all-important to you and therefore abused and toxic.
> 
> If your husband masturbates in his free time a few times a week but is happy to be intimate with you when he has the chance, then I see no problem. But if he's beating it like a rented mule and telling you he's too tired, then that's the problem. It's His usage of porn, not the porn itself.


So your wife got less than 10% of the "sex" you had last week? My wife always gets 100% of what I am. I wonder how good that makes her feel that she's only getting a part of you? She also must know that you have no self control. I bet she worries that your fantasy lovers are hotter than her and that combined with your lack of self control probably makes her insecure. Does she want to have babies with you?


----------



## Cletus

Machjo said:


> True, but I think age plays a role too. For example, a person who consumes alcohol as a teen during his formative years is more prone to alcoholism. It would make sense that a person exposed to porn in adolescence when his brain is still developing (and especially if he's suffered past abuse) will be more prone to porn addiction.


Careful not to get your causality horse before your effect cart.

It is much more likely that an alcoholic starts drinking early in life than early drinking causes alcoholism since drinking is the symptom, not the condition. I'll cite my many long conversations with my research psychologist alcoholic brother for reference.


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## Cletus

Machjo said:


> Regardless, what makes people so sexually aggressive? I imagine the stats for male abusers is probably even higher.


~2 billion years of successful reproductive evolutionary biology.


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## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Thats why we all need to marry someone who shares our views on porn etc.


Great. Then we all agree that at a minimum it's fine in a marriage as long as both parties share the same views.

Now we only have to iron out the conditions for when there is some disagreement.


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## As'laDain

Diana7 said:


> Thats because their culture is very different and their view of women is appalling. For them rape/abuse of women isn't as bad as it is for us, its nothing to do with the fact they have no porn.
> 
> Also the majority of rapes in the west aren't reported anyway.


let me guess...


you have never been to east africa?


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Because he has never used porn it hasn't for him.




How do you know how long it takes him? Do you use a stopwatch when he does it? 


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I realise that you are trying to justify porn use, but rape was NOT normal in all cultures then any more than it is today. Yes its always happened, just as other awful crimes have, but it wasn't normal.



It always happened. But my point is that it happened more before.
I’m not trying to justify porn use (I hardly ever watch it myself). I’m pointing out that there aren’t only negatives when it comes to it. And I don’t like a blanket ‘porn is evil and anyone who ever watched it is evil’ statement. It’s probably better if you can avoid it, but it can be helpful when you can’t or have other issues where porn can help.


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## Machjo

Cletus said:


> ~2 billion years of successful reproductive evolutionary biology.


I doubt it. Men and women who sleep around will more likely produce single mother households that will struggle in life. It might produce population growth but certainly not civilization since those children will have few educational opportunities. A stable family might produce fewer children but will produce civilization.

With that, how do we explain such a high percentage of men being sexually coerced by women who we would think would want to be more cautious?


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## Machjo

Diana7 said:


> Muslims are allowed to have more than one wife that's true, but its not common in other cultures. I often wonder what happens to all the men who cant find a wife due to other man having 2 or 3.
> 
> I cant see what having a mistress has to do with porn though. I am sure that most men who have mistresses also look at porn.


Just a correction on this:

Qur’án 4:3 states:
'And if ye are apprehensive that ye shall not deal fairly with orphans, then, of other women who seem good in your eyes, marry but two, or three, or four; and if ye still fear that ye shall not act equitably, then one only; or the slaves whom ye have acquired: this will make justice on your part easier.'

Qur’án 4:129 states:
'And ye will not have it at all in your power to treat your wives alike, even though you fain would do so; but yield not wholly to disinclination, so that ye leave one of them as it were in suspense; if ye come to an understanding, and fear God, then, verily, God is Forgiving, Merciful.'

The above verses enjoin monogamy since Qur’án 4:129 indicates that no man can fulfil the equity condition that Qur’án 4:3 imposes on a man who wishes to contract a polygamous marriage and the slavery rules of the Qur’án are so strictly attritionist as to have resulted in the extinction or near-extinction of slavery throughout the Muslim world today. Tunisia is the first state to legally enjoin monogamy under a religious legal code in 1957 by citing the two verses above as its rationale.
The perils of polygyny | Pambazuka News

Due to ethno-cultural reasons though, many Muslim states have turned a blind eye to Qur'án 4:129 but still allow individuals to enforce the rules by including a monogamy clause in a marriage contract. In Iran most women know of this right and so include it in the marriage contract. In some other Muslim states that allow polygamy, the women often ignore this right. Some have proposed including it in the official default contract so and then leaving it to the couple to decide whether to cross it out. Including it in the default contract would make the wife aware of this right. After all, of what use is a right if one doesn't know about it?

If I understand correctly though, Tunisia also faces its own dilemma as a Muslim state. Since the Qur'án also shuns albeit permits divorce, while Tunisia has criminalized the contracting of a polygamous marriage within its own borders, it will still recognize a polygamous marriage legally contracted abroad. This leaves a gaping loophole for those who can afford to just marry in a neighbouring state; so even in Tunisia, it might make sense to include a monogamy clause in the civil marriage contract by default so as to protect the wife from international or cross-border polygamy.


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## uhtred

Its an interesting view. I think you are saying that when computer generated porn becomes indistinguishable from real videos (which will happen soon) it will not be a sin to watch because there is no real woman involved. 





Diana7 said:


> The women in porn are real live women. So you would be lusting after another woman who isn't you wife. It depends on the fantasy I guess. If you are fantasising about your wife that's great. If you are fantasising about some other woman you know then that's different.


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## 269370

uhtred said:


> Its an interesting view. I think you are saying that when computer generated porn becomes indistinguishable from real videos (which will happen soon) it will not be a sin to watch because there is no real woman involved.



Or....if robots become almost life-like, and you marry one. But then the robot starts having less and less sex as time goes on and you turn to robot porn instead, will this be considered as stepping outside of the boundaries? Or understandable and rational behaviour?



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## Wolf1974

Diana7 said:


> Thats why we all need to marry someone who shares our views on porn etc.


I agree and for clarity I have never known a man who doesn’t look at it and only dated one woman who had an issue with it. I see no harm no foul so long as it doesn’t effect the marriage.


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## Maxwedge 413

CatholicDad said:


> So your wife got less than 10% of the "sex" you had last week? My wife always gets 100% of what I am. I wonder how good that makes her feel that she's only getting a part of you? She also must know that you have no self control. I bet she worries that your fantasy lovers are hotter than her and that combined with your lack of self control probably makes her insecure. Does she want to have babies with you?


I just showed your post (with the quote of _my_ post) to my wife. She's been an active poster here for many years, a practicing Lutheran, raised Irish Catholic, with her Psych degree from John's Hopkins. She's chuckling. She says that "If I only got 10% of you the other night, I'm _glad_ I didn't get the other 90. I would've shot off of you like a rocket and hit the ceiling". But she got all of the sex that has been had since she has been home. Your "self control" statement is ridiculous and unfounded. Knowing that there are pretty women in the world does not make her insecure at all. Why is your Mrs so insecure about what you may see? And yes, she wanted _Very_ much to have babies with me. Our son is strong, smart, does great in school and sports, and is very loved and secure. No one in my household has any doubts or reservations about our love and devotion to one another.


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## Maxwedge 413

inmyprime said:


> Or....if robots become almost life-like, and you marry one. But then the robot starts having less and less sex as time goes on and you turn to robot porn instead, will this be considered as stepping outside of the boundaries? Or understandable and rational behaviour?


I think that would depend on just how life-like the AI is. If it's an analytical thinking robot, then it would surmise that you simply looking at pictures or films to enjoy yourself, so long as you continue to uphold your part of the human / robot relationship, is nothing more than harmless entertainment. Now if you neglected your income-making career or robot maintenance, then your robot wife would be right to be concerned and notify you, for her own protection.

However if her programmers gave her a more realistic human personality, with our beloved flawed logic, then you might be in trouble. Especially if you looked at porn with _human_ actresses.


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## sandcastle

Porn has it perks.

In a marriage it becomes erosive when a partner knows it is destroying .

Should we talk about AMP and happy endings?

Ya know - certain people are addicts.
Like 6 times a day addicts.

Then we need to explore those that like she men. Or the lusty babes that get it on with the cleaning lady or the yoga babe and or or and !

So many delish options . Tinder? Right swipe. 31 flavors per minute. Oral all day long. Yum.


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## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> let me guess...
> 
> 
> you have never been to east africa?


Two of my children have worked in different parts of Africa.


----------



## Diana7

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I just showed your post (with the quote of _my_ post) to my wife. She's been an active poster here for many years, a practicing Lutheran, raised Irish Catholic, with her Psych degree from John's Hopkins. She's chuckling. She says that "If I only got 10% of you the other night, I'm _glad_ I didn't get the other 90. I would've shot off of you like a rocket and hit the ceiling". But she got all of the sex that has been had since she has been home. Your "self control" statement is ridiculous and unfounded. Knowing that there are pretty women in the world does not make her insecure at all. Why is your Mrs so insecure about what you may see? And yes, she wanted _Very_ much to have babies with me. Our son is strong, smart, does great in school and sports, and is very loved and secure. No one in my household has any doubts or reservations about our love and devotion to one another.


For me being with someone who doesn't watch porn isn't about our insecurity, its about faithfulness and respect and how we treat each other. My husband is the most laid back easy going man there is, and he has no insecurity at all, but I would never watch porn out of respect for him and our marriage which for us doesn't include others whether on line or in person. 
We see that as unfaithfulness. We want our whole sexual focus, mind and body, to be for each other only. 
Yes of course there are pretty women in the world and also good looking men, what has that to do with porn? Just because they are there doesn't mean we have to watch them having sex.

I also like a man with self control who doesn't go along with the flow of the majority today who think its ok.


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## MEM2020

Agree agree agree - physical coercion - come on. 

There simply are not that many Rhonda Rousey clones in the world to make this 18% coercion number true. 




Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And this means what? What is and "unwanted sexual experience?" My HS years were full of dodging some entirely unwanted yet rather aggressive advances from females I found distasteful.
> 
> From the report:
> "18 percent reported sexual coercion by physical force"
> Really? Are you telling me 18% of young men are physically incapable of defending themselves against a woman? Holy crap? If that's the case, all these reports of the younger generation being emasculated little wimps are not only founded, but it's even worse than we thought!
> 
> "31 percent said they were verbally coerced"
> Dude, grow a pair! You let a girl badger you into sex you didn't want? Please.
> 
> "26 percent described unwanted seduction by sexual behaviors"
> What the hell is "unwanted seduction." If you're seduced, you wanted it. If you didn't want it, it was coercion, not seduction. If you can't tell the difference, it's no wonder you have problems.
> 
> "The study participants consisted of 54 high school teens and 230 college students, ages 14 to 26. High school students completed the surveys on paper in the classroom. College students completed them electronically or in the classroom. "
> Pretty small sample size. And not the most trustworthy group. Hard to think of this as a truly valid study.


----------



## CatholicDad

Lauren123 said:


> Do all men watch porn? Feeling pretty low and inadequate after finding a secret app on my husband’s phone (again) that he uses solely to watch porn. I don’t know if I’m overly sensitive..or old fashioned…or what is “normal” these days? We’ve only been married 9 months and I literally make myself sexually available to him at any time. Not only does it really hurt my feelings- it completely rips at my self esteem. Anyone have any experience with this?


Lauren123,

I think you should trust your instincts on this and try to work with him to get help. Despite all the people here that will justify and argue that it's normal, healthy, moral, etc.... you know better.

People always have and perhaps always will justify and rationalize their sleazy, immoral, and low class behavior. It is true and good to expect more for your marriage than this. Any true Christian would agree.


----------



## As'laDain

CatholicDad said:


> I'm not sure, but my dad is. Is yours?


 this just reminded me of something very funny.

my dad used to be very gifted at computer programming. he always tried to take care of his computer issues himself. then he lived without a computer for about 12 years, and saw that everything had changed. 

so, he asked me to fix his computer that seemed to be full of viruses. i did, then i told him:

"hey dad, try going to these websites instead. they wont hijack your browser or download malware into it."

it was pretty obvious where he infected his computer.


----------



## Cletus

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I would also appreciate if you would not ask questions about my 7 year
> old son's sexual habits, "Catholic" Dad.


In all my years in the church, including the eight years of formal education, mass, acting as an altar boy, thankfully NOT getting raped, meeting and marrying my wife - in all that, somewhere I missed the part of the program that required me to be an ******* to those around me. 

Guess I wasn't paying enough attention.


----------



## As'laDain

Cletus said:


> In all my years in the church, including the eight years of formal education, mass, acting as an altar boy, thankfully NOT getting raped, meeting and marrying my wife - in all that, somewhere I missed the part of the program that required me to be an ******* to those around me.
> 
> Guess I wasn't paying enough attention.


you weren't included in that part of the program because you have nothing to hide. 

back when i was still a practicing pagan, i visited every church within five miles. which was saying something, there were a LOT of churches. took me three years to visit them all. i found that the ones with the most judgmental congregations ALWAYS had the most to hide.

i find the same is true with anyone who is judgmental of others. they are usually hiding something.


----------



## MattMatt

*MODERATOR WARNING:-*

Foks, please keep it civil and courteous.

A post that was not civil and courteous was removed. Other posts that quoted that post were also removed to tidy the thread.

Further action will be considered, if thought necessary.

This is not open for debate or discussion.


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## uhtred

The word "child" can give the wrong impression. I would have no problem with an adult offspring who decided to do porn IF they made that decision fully aware of all of the issues. 




Diana7 said:


> I am more concerned about whether fathers would be ok if their own daughters were in porn films. All of these young women are someone's child. If they wouldn't want their child doing this then why is it ok for them to do the same to other parents children?


----------



## CatholicDad

As'laDain said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all my years in the church, including the eight years of formal education, mass, acting as an altar boy, thankfully NOT getting raped, meeting and marrying my wife - in all that, somewhere I missed the part of the program that required me to be an ******* to those around me.
> 
> Guess I wasn't paying enough attention.
> 
> 
> 
> you weren't included in that part of the program because you have nothing to hide.
> 
> back when i was still a practicing pagan, i visited every church within five miles. which was saying something, there were a LOT of churches. took me three years to visit them all. i found that the ones with the most judgmental congregations ALWAYS had the most to hide.
> 
> i find the same is true with anyone who is judgmental of others. they are usually hiding something.
Click to expand...

Clearly this is being directed at me. Look, I'm not hiding anything. I hate porn. Is it really so offensive for me to ask someone if he is going to teach his son self control rather than about porn?


----------



## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> He called his son a good athlete so I presumed he was a teenager. My mistake.
> 
> The question stands: are you going to push porn to your kids, since you love it so much? I think this is a fair question for all the porn lovers here.


Of course. They're grown now, but I used the Ludovico technique twice weekly to ensure that they were properly exposed to all forms of pornography, violence, degradation, snuff films, and most importantly, at least one viewing of "The Passion of The Christ" per week:


----------



## CatholicDad

Diana7 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> He called his son a good athlete so I presumed he was a teenager. My mistake.
> 
> The question stands: are you going to push porn to your kids, since you love it so much? I think this is a fair question for all the porn lovers here.
> 
> 
> 
> I am more concerned about whether fathers would be ok if their own daughters were in porn films. All of these young women are someone's child. If they wouldn't want their child doing this then why is it ok for them to do the same to other parents children?
Click to expand...

No sane person would want this for their child. Further, where I live you can't drink alcoholic beverages until 21, but pretty sure you can be in an adult film at age 18. How does that make sense?


----------



## CatholicDad

Cletus said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> He called his son a good athlete so I presumed he was a teenager. My mistake.
> 
> The question stands: are you going to push porn to your kids, since you love it so much? I think this is a fair question for all the porn lovers here.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. They're grown now, but I used the Ludovico technique twice weekly to ensure that they were properly exposed to all forms of pornography, violence, degradation, snuff films, and most importantly, at least one viewing of "The Passion of The Christ" per week:
Click to expand...

More sarcasm of course. I accept that you probably did protect your kids from pornographic material as any father would. Even an atheist can agree that porn is bad for young minds. Probably our disagreement then is that I think it bad for everyone. Others, are too hooked on it to admit it.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> I am more concerned about whether fathers would be ok if their own daughters were in porn films. All of these young women are someone's child. If they wouldn't want their child doing this then why is it ok for them to do the same to other parents children?


I don't understand this question at all. It's like saying if you don't have sex with your daughter, why is it ok to have sex with someone else's daughter? :scratchhead::scratchhead:

First of all, they are not 'children'. And if they are underaged, the person watching it, should be in jail. 
Also, they do this with their eyes open. It's a job and they get paid for it. They don't have to do it, if they don't want to.


----------



## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> More sarcasm of course. I accept that you probably did protect your kids from pornographic material as any father would. Even an atheist can agree that porn is bad for young minds. Probably our disagreement then is that I think it bad for everyone. Others, are too hooked on it to admit it.


Ok, finally a post with a reasonable tone that invites discussion, not mockery.

First, just how much porn do you think I'm consuming? Hardly any. A person can have a principled stand on something without being an addict. 

Second, I neither exposed my children to nor particularly sheltered them from it growing up. Trying to stop a teenage boy from getting his hands on some pornography is about as useful as trying to stop him from breathing. It was the neighbor's Playboy in my day, the internet in my son's. I'm not the type to put key loggers on computers or otherwise invade someone's privacy, especially when it comes to their own sexuality. 

My children got age appropriate sexuality discussions, and this includes giving both my son and daughter their first box of condoms - because sticking your head in the sand and praying that things just turn out OK is a really, really bad strategy. 

So porn was mostly a non-issue with my children growing up. If I don't have some obsession with the topic that would have warranted any other action. It's one more fact of life, not the first coming of Beelzebub. If it had seemed to be a hangup for either, it would have been dealt with at the time. It was not, so never required much attention.


----------



## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> No sane person would want this for their child. Further, where I live you can't drink alcoholic beverages until 21, but pretty sure you can be in an adult film at age 18. How does that make sense?


It doesn't. Raise the age of consent or lower the drinking age. 

You have to define your terms. Not all pornography is the same.

There is plenty of pornography out there which is based on humiliation, degradation, or coercion. This is not a good thing for any involved. I would not want anyone I know doing this kind of work (nor anyone I don't know, for that matter) and I do not much care to be exposed to it.

However, there is a huge amount of content created by couples who are fully aware of and clearly enjoying what they are doing. It's their life, their bodies, their right. Should my daughter decide this was something she wanted to do, wasn't forced, wasn't drugged, and wasn't coerced, then it's her decision. 

Back when I was a wee lad, the Playmate of the Year received something like $100,000 and a new car. Not a bad days work for the chore of taking off your clothes in front of the camera. If that's coercion, twist my arm.


----------



## uhtred

My dad got me a copy of playboy when I was growing up. 



CatholicDad said:


> More sarcasm of course. I accept that you probably did protect your kids from pornographic material as any father would. Even an atheist can agree that porn is bad for young minds. Probably our disagreement then is that I think it bad for everyone. Others, are too hooked on it to admit it.


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> The word "child" can give the wrong impression. I would have no problem with an adult offspring who decided to do porn IF they made that decision fully aware of all of the issues.


They are still someone's child. Have you got a daughter?


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> My dad got me a copy of playboy when I was growing up.


Sad. I found copies of playboy in my dad's wardrobe. I never respected him in the same way after that. I am just glad that internet porn wasn't around then.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I don't understand this question at all. It's like saying if you don't have sex with your daughter, why is it ok to have sex with someone else's daughter? :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> First of all, they are not 'children'. And if they are underaged, the person watching it, should be in jail.
> Also, they do this with their eyes open. It's a job and they get paid for it. They don't have to do it, if they don't want to.


So you would be completely happy if your 18 year old daughter told you that she was going into porn films?


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> It doesn't. Raise the age of consent or lower the drinking age.
> 
> You have to define your terms. Not all pornography is the same.
> 
> There is plenty of pornography out there which is based on humiliation, degradation, or coercion. This is not a good thing for any involved. I would not want anyone I know doing this kind of work (nor anyone I don't know, for that matter) and I do not much care to be exposed to it.
> 
> However, there is a huge amount of content created by couples who are fully aware of and clearly enjoying what they are doing. It's their life, their bodies, their right. Should my daughter decide this was something she wanted to do, wasn't forced, wasn't drugged, and wasn't coerced, then it's her decision.
> 
> Back when I was a wee lad, the Playmate of the Year received something like $100,000 and a new car. Not a bad days work for the chore of taking off your clothes in front of the camera. If that's coercion, twist my arm.


Yes its her decision but would you be happy about it?


----------



## uhtred

Where is the line? Lots of mainstream media these days has nudity and sex, as do lots of books. 



Diana7 said:


> Sad. I found copies of playboy in my dad's wardrobe. I never respected him in the same way after that. I am just glad that internet porn wasn't around then.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Yes its her decision but would you be happy about it?


Under the conditions I stipulated, I would not be unhappy. I am happy for my children when they are happy for themselves, not when they are trying to meet my expectations.


----------



## Diana7

CatholicDad said:


> No sane person would want this for their child. Further, where I live you can't drink alcoholic beverages until 21, but pretty sure you can be in an adult film at age 18. How does that make sense?


I agree, what parent would want that life for their child? For loads of men to ogling and leering at her? I would feel guilty that I hadn't bought her up properly that she had such low self esteem to think that was all she could achieve in life.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> So you would be completely happy if your 18 year old daughter told you that she was going into porn films?


What Cletus said.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> So you would be completely happy if your 18 year old daughter told you that she was going into porn films?


I don't understand what one has got to do with the other. If I am a consumer of something, why do I need to be proud of it or have my daughter do it?

You put petrol in your car, do you ascertain that the oil companies are all ethical?

There are many jobs I probably wouldn't have chosen for myself that my kids might choose: filming x-rated movies might not even be in the first 10. But in the end, it will be their choice what they want to do with their life.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

CatholicDad said:


> He called his son a good athlete so I presumed he was a teenager. My mistake.
> 
> The question stands: are you going to push porn to your kids, since you love it so much? I think this is a fair question for all the porn lovers here.


Mistake forgiven. 

"since you love it so much"?? I don't think I've ever typed the words "I love porn". I _have_ typed that porn has some negative social implications, and that if someone is addicted to it and neglecting their spouse because of that, that it is problematic. I wrote those ideas down. But I think what I wrote to that flipped your crazy switch, is that pornography, in and of itself, is just a form of entertainment and a masturbation aid. I don't see it as cheating or sinning as long as one's partner doesn't see it that way. If your wife or husband doesn't want you to see sexual imagery, then yes you are betraying them by secretly doing it. But if they don't care then who are YOU to say otherwise. I'm glad that you and your wife have an understanding that works for you, both spiritually and physically. I have the same with my wife. Oh, and another comment she made about your 10% / 100% / Sloppy Seconds posts was that she would rather have 10% of me than 100% of an Idiot.

And since you are so interested in children's sexuality - No, I have no plans to show my child pornography. Why in the hell would I do that? My father never showed me his Playboys when I was a teen, but if you asked him if I masturbated he would probably say "My son has never talked about that with me, but he is a man, so yeah he probably does". I have no plans to show him explicit sexual images, but I also have no doubts that he will start wasting all my hot water in the shower when he turns 12. Damn kids. He is free to discover what he likes for himself, as we all are or should be. He knows exactly (medically and scientifically) where babies come from. And since his parents, grandparents and aunts/uncles are in loving and respectful relationships, I expect he will have healthy attitudes on dating and marriage. And we're here to guide him if he has any questions.


----------



## chillymorn69

Anything in excess is bad and I fear the easily accessible porn is going to be problematic for many .

I have been reading stories about women who got into porn for the money and how it destroyed there life. How at first its just a regular shoot and then they ask for morecand more outragious stuff even force drugs on the females. 

Its methodical theses guys that make porn follow a script. Start with just piv movies get them comfortable and used to making good money the once they know that they can take advantage of them they turn it up by. Haveing them do two men at the same time and threatining them that if they don't they will be out of the business. By this time thet have come to rely on the money they were making . Then they say we need you to do some anal with bubba the three legged freek. And if she says no many times they will just rape her or abuse her punching kicking and then tell her the police are in my pocket same with the judge either you do this or get another ass kicking ....hey snort some of this it will make you feel better. 


Its bad bad industry. And any father who says they wouldn't be disapointed that their child was in porn is not thinking clearly. Or in my opinion has their head buried in the sand as to what the porn industry is really like.

Strong confident women are smart enough to not do porn .


Reed up on some true porn stories ....find some articles where a women who did porn says I'm glad I did porn it really was a good decission.

Almost everything you find will be just the opposite.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Diana7 said:


> I agree, what parent would want that life for their child? For loads of men to ogling and leering at her? I would feel guilty that I hadn't bought her up properly that she had such low self esteem to think that was all she could achieve in life.


No parent would ever want that for their child. I believe most porn actresses have deep emotional and relationship problems from poor or abusive (or lack of) parenting. But to ask how can anyone look at such acts while knowing that it is someones daughter...

_Every_ woman is some ones daughter. You are someones daughter. Does your husband feel guilt because he enjoys you? Did he confess his shame and lustfullness to your parents after your honeymoon? Of course not. Of course they knew, and it isn't spoken of because you are a consenting adult. You can do what you want -it's your life and body. 

And someone asked why you need to be 21 to drink (I don't drink either, but you can if you want) but only 18 to act in adult films. I don't know. Why can you join the military at 18 and get your legs blown off for some Senator's agenda that may or may not have anything to do with protecting your Country's safety? I would rather my 20 yo son tell me that he just made $5000 in a porno than that he got his legs run over by a tank.


----------



## Diana7

chillymorn69 said:


> Anything in excess is bad and I fear the easily accessible porn is going to be problematic for many .
> 
> I have been reading stories about women who got into porn for the money and how it destroyed there life. How at first its just a regular shoot and then they ask for morecand more outragious stuff even force drugs on the females.
> 
> Its methodical theses guys that make porn follow a script. Start with just piv movies get them comfortable and used to making good money the once they know that they can take advantage of them they turn it up by. Haveing them do two men at the same time and threatining them that if they don't they will be out of the business. By this time thet have come to rely on the money they were making . Then they say we need you to do some anal with bubba the three legged freek. And if she says no many times they will just rape her or abuse her punching kicking and then tell her the police are in my pocket same with the judge either you do this or get another ass kicking ....hey snort some of this it will make you feel better.
> 
> 
> Its bad bad industry. And any father who says they wouldn't be disapointed that their child was in porn is not thinking clearly. Or in my opinion has their head buried in the sand as to what the porn industry is really like.
> 
> Strong confident women are smart enough to not do porn .
> 
> 
> Reed up on some true porn stories ....find some articles where a women who did porn says I'm glad I did porn it really was a good decission.
> 
> Almost everything you find will be just the opposite.


I watched a programme about women who were or used to be in porn a while back and it was heart-breaking. None came out unscathed and one poor women was so badly damaged she could not have children. Women who get into porn are often emotionally damaged anyway and many say they actually hate sex. Not surprisingly. Many are from bad families and abusive situations. As you say no woman with a healthy self image would ever do that. She would know that she is worth far more than being used for men to drool over. Basically they are prostitutes.


----------



## Diana7

Maxwedge 413 said:


> No parent would ever want that for their child. I believe most porn actresses have deep emotional and relationship problems from poor or abusive (or lack of) parenting. But to ask how can anyone look at such acts while knowing that it is someones daughter...
> 
> _Every_ woman is some ones daughter. You are someones daughter. Does your husband feel guilt because he enjoys you? Did he confess his shame and lustfullness to your parents after your honeymoon? Of course not. Of course they knew, and it isn't spoken of because you are a consenting adult. You can do what you want -it's your life and body.
> 
> And someone asked why you need to be 21 to drink (I don't drink either, but you can if you want) but only 18 to act in adult films. I don't know. Why can you join the military at 18 and get your legs blown off for some Senator's agenda that may or may not have anything to do with protecting your Country's safety? I would rather my 20 yo son tell me that he just made $5000 in a porno than that he got his legs run over by a tank.


My husband is married to me and faithful to me. His sexual desires and mine are for each other. Hardly the same as men lusting over hundreds of women in porn.


----------



## uhtred

There are women who are coerced into porn and abused. But these days there are also women who do it as an easy way to make a lot of money, or couples who are just into exhibitionism. 

Form most people porn is a terrible job, but there are some for whom it is a reasonable way to make a living. 





Diana7 said:


> I watched a programme about women who were or used to be in porn a while back and it was heart-breaking. None came out unscathed and one poor women was so badly damaged she could not have children. Women who get into porn are often emotionally damaged anyway and many say they actually hate sex. Not surprisingly. Many are from bad families and abusive situations. As you say no woman with a healthy self image would ever do that. She would know that she is worth far more than being used for men to drool over. Basically they are prostitutes.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

uhtred said:


> There are women who are coerced into porn and abused. But these days there are also women who do it as an easy way to make a lot of money, or couples who are just into exhibitionism.
> 
> Form most people porn is a terrible job, but there are some for whom it is a reasonable way to make a living.


Again, I am not saying that anyone should get into porn watching or acting. And certainly not suggesting anyone should encourage their kids to watch it (Get your mind out of the gutter CatholicDad - I'm praying for you). But the porn I watch is almost exclusively amature and is clearly the artistic property of the female actor. It's her show, her name on the "Blog" or site or whatever. I don't like anything where the women are slapped, choked, spit on, etc., or where they are not clearly enjoying themselves or their partner. My regular sites for viewing are either a single woman or a woman that always has the same partner (her boyfriend I assume, as he's been in about 50 clips with her). _These_ women are just making money in the safety and comfort of their own homes, while they are young and not afraid to show their bodies.

This doesn't change the fact that looking is a sin, if that is your belief. I'm just saying that in addition to the exploitative styles of porn there is a huge market for amature, and in a day and age where anyone can make money by putting up likable videos on youtube, some women have decided to cash in. And like it.


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## 269370

I only watch organic, feminist porn. Where women are roaming around freely and are empowering each other...usually on all fours. 
Actually it’s not always true, I mostly watch the porn I made at home. When she lets me. But sometimes I don’t like taking the files with me in case somebody else finds them...Cybersecurity and all that...
Can I lust after my wife in a video, even though she’s just an image, and not a real person in there? Did Jesus say anything about filming your wife and watching it on a MacBook when you are away on business trip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maxwedge 413

Jesus only uses PC's. He specifically said that the only commendable quality of Apple devices was the easy to insert charging plugs. Other than that they are akin to golden calf statues, and nerds should destroy and eat them. On a more serious note though, didn't Jesus mind-freak the crowd by turning water into wine? 99% of alcoholics started with beer and wine, so is Jesus a bad influence?


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## Cletus

Maxwedge 413 said:


> On a more serious note though, didn't Jesus mind-freak the crowd by turning water into wine? 99% of alcoholics started with beer and wine, so is Jesus a bad influence?


Enabler is the word you're looking for. "First one's free"


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> I am more concerned about whether fathers would be ok if their own daughters were in porn films. All of these young women are someone's child. If they wouldn't want their child doing this then why is it ok for them to do the same to other parents children?


I agree. Anyone who 'stars' in a porn video is not worse than the people who view the video.


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## Diana7

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Jesus only uses PC's. He specifically said that the only commendable quality of Apple devices was the easy to insert charging plugs. Other than that they are akin to golden calf statues, and nerds should destroy and eat them. On a more serious note though, didn't Jesus mind-freak the crowd by turning water into wine? 99% of alcoholics started with beer and wine, so is Jesus a bad influence?


Wine was much more of a basic drink then because of the lack of healthy drinking water. 
Its fine to drink wine, its getting drunk that is the problem. Nothing to do with porn though.


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I only watch organic, feminist porn. Where women are roaming around freely and are empowering each other...usually on all fours.
> Actually it’s not always true, I mostly watch the porn I made at home. When she lets me. But sometimes I don’t like taking the files with me in case somebody else finds them...Cybersecurity and all that...
> Can I lust after my wife in a video, even though she’s just an image, and not a real person in there? Did Jesus say anything about filming your wife and watching it on a MacBook when you are away on business trip?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She is you wife, its fine and good to have sexual desires for her.


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## Cletus

Since it seems to be "common knowledge" that everyone in the porn industry is damaged goods, I figured I would poke around a little on that topic.

It seems it's not quite that simple. No doubt there are ample abuses, but some women seem to be leading perfectly normal and happy lives.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23167939/

"Porn actresses were more likely to identify as bisexual, first had sex at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more concerned about contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STD), and enjoyed sex more than the matched sample, although there were no differences in incidence of CSA. In terms of psychological characteristics, porn actresses had higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. "


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## CatholicDad

Let me apologize to those I offended. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Let me summarize mine.

I actually think marital sex is such a beautiful gift that it shouldn't be degraded by something like porn. In fact, sexual attraction is such a powerful thing, people shouldn't play around with it at all. It's life giving and wonderful... can't say enough. To me, porn is a distortion of this fantastic gift.

I believe porn is addictive and, I think, evil. I fell for it as a teen via Playboy and all I can say is thank God I didn't have easy access to it as teens do today. I'm sure if I did, I would have been completely addicted. I fear that young men today have almost no chance to grow up without it. I'm protecting my kids and warning them about it when appropriate (internet content filtering). You can't let kids lose their innocence via unrestricted internet browsing. You can't close Pandora's box once opened.

A Catholic priest educated me about a lot of this and I feel like I owe him my life. Being free of porn has made my marriage infinitely better. I have suffered from extreme sexual frustration at times (childbirth or when my wife had surgery/recovery, sick children) however I am all the more joyful when we reunite! I've also found my attraction for my wife has gone up, up, up. Sex with her is all about her touch, scent, sounds, etc.. and I no longer am recreating something seen on a screen. Porn distorts natural attraction. 

Frankly it is insane to read about young men who can't "perform" or choose not to with their wives. This speaks volumes that porn is damaging. I'm certain it is damaging to the actors too.

Finally, I'm almost 50 and don't want to brag but I have never had a single performance problem in 20 plus years of marriage. I'm just a normal man, though porn free. I think I could behalf dead.and still woo my wife. My body is trained to my wife and not to my hand or images on a screen. She can look at me in a certain way, and my body responds despite a normal marriage, children, and the usual resentments and difficulties.

Aside from religious beliefs and everything else I can at least be happy to know that in response to my wife giving herself to me, I am fully devoted to her in body and mind. Men using porn can't really say that. I may doubt heaven or my place there but I can say I loved my wife in the way she was meant to be loved (similar to how I think my grandad loved my grandma- free of this ridiculous porn epidemic).


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## Maxwedge 413

Diana7 said:


> ...Its fine to drink wine, its getting drunk that is the problem. Nothing to do with porn though.


And that is what I was saying of porn usage (or magazines, or the Victoria's Secret flyer). I understand that you and many others see it as immoral to look upon non-spouses in a lustful way. That's fine. But for those without the moral or spousal-difference of opinion, I don't think there is anything wrong with using visual aids. Unless it becomes an all-consuming addiction.


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## Middle of Everything

CatholicDad said:


> Let me apologize to those I offended. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Let me summarize mine.
> 
> I actually think marital sex is such a beautiful gift that it shouldn't be degraded by something like porn. In fact, sexual attraction is such a powerful thing, people shouldn't play around with it at all. It's life giving and wonderful... can't say enough. To me, porn is a distortion of this fantastic gift.
> 
> I believe porn is addictive and, I think, evil. I fell for it as a teen via Playboy and all I can say is thank God I didn't have easy access to it as teens do today. I'm sure if I did, I would have been completely addicted. I fear that young men today have almost no chance to grow up without it. I'm protecting my kids and warning them about it when appropriate (internet content filtering). You can't let kids lose their innocence via unrestricted internet browsing. You can't close Pandora's box once opened.
> 
> A Catholic priest educated me about a lot of this and I feel like I owe him my life. Being free of porn has made my marriage infinitely better. I have suffered from extreme sexual frustration at times (childbirth or when my wife had surgery/recovery, sick children) however I am all the more joyful when we reunite! I've also found my attraction for my wife has gone up, up, up. Sex with her is all about her touch, scent, sounds, etc.. and I no longer am recreating something seen on a screen. Porn distorts natural attraction.
> 
> Frankly it is insane to read about young men who can't "perform" or choose not to with their wives. This speaks volumes that porn is damaging. I'm certain it is damaging to the actors too.
> 
> Finally, I'm almost 50 and don't want to brag but I have never had a single performance problem in 20 plus years of marriage. I'm just a normal man, though porn free. I think I could behalf dead.and still woo my wife. My body is trained to my wife and not to my hand or images on a screen. She can look at me in a certain way, and my body responds despite a normal marriage, children, and the usual resentments and difficulties.
> 
> Aside from religious beliefs and everything else I can at least be happy to know that in response to my wife giving herself to me, I am fully devoted to her in body and mind. Men using porn can't really say that. I may doubt heaven or my place there but I can say I loved my wife in the way she was meant to be loved (similar to how I think my grandad loved my grandma- free of this ridiculous porn epidemic).


You must have found Jesus. You were finally not a jerk to people in a post. Good for you.


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## 269370

EleGirl said:


> I agree. Anyone who 'stars' in a porn video is not worse than the people who view the video.




And if those are the same people?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> She is you wife, its fine and good to have sexual desires for her.




Not if my desires are bigger than hers (or more ‘urgent’). I don’t always want to ‘burden’ her with my ****ty desires...She has a life too and not always responsible to relieve me of erections. I wish I wasn’t made into a man sometimes (from dust?). Maybe instead from a man’s rib. (Sexist much?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> Finally, I'm almost 50 and don't want to brag but I have never had a single performance problem in 20 plus years of marriage. I'm just a normal man, though porn free. I think I could behalf dead.and still woo my wife. My body is trained to my wife and not to my hand or images on a screen. She can look at me in a certain way, and my body responds despite a normal marriage, children, and the usual resentments and difficulties.



Me neither. Though I once faked an orgasm, because I masturbated half an hour earlier back in school and had no idea my wife (then girlfriend) would be coming onto me...

Porn/sexual education by a priest doesn’t sound quite right to me...Isn’t it the job of the parents/school?





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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Not if my desires are bigger than hers (or more ‘urgent’). I don’t always want to ‘burden’ her with my ****ty desires...She has a life too and not always responsible to relieve me of erections. I wish I wasn’t made into a man sometimes (from dust?). Maybe instead from a man’s rib. (Sexist much?)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you talked to her about it? Has she refused to have sex with you?

BTW you can masturbate without porn .


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## toblerone

Too late. If you masturbate without porn you're still thinking of porny things.


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## Cletus

Bun


Diana7 said:


> Have you talked to her about it? Has she refused to have sex with you?
> 
> BTW you can masturbate without porn .


You can make a hamburger without meat too, but it tastes like crap.

My masturbation time, my circus, my monkeys. Not yours. I won't tell you how to masturbate, so perhaps you should just STFU and do the same.


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## Middle of Everything

toblerone said:


> Too late. If you masturbate without porn you're still thinking of porny things.


Yeah but the church doesnt truly give a **** about that. Its all those swimmers you are wasting. They could be made into future revenue, I mean parishioners, if you would shoot it into your wife instead.


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## toblerone

Whoa, who said anything about shooting it into your wife?

Doesn't seem like the passage that everyone quotes about spilling seed has anything to do with shooting it in one's _own wife_.


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## Cletus

Middle of Everything said:


> Yeah but the church doesnt truly give a **** about that. Its all those swimmers you are wasting. They could be made into future revenue, I mean parishioners, if you would shoot it into your wife instead.


Sing it with me...

"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great. 
If a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate..."


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## Middle of Everything

toblerone said:


> Whoa, who said anything about shooting it into your wife?
> 
> Doesn't seem like the passage that everyone quotes about spilling seed has anything to do with shooting it in one's _own wife_.


Maybe refresh my memory. Whats the passage again?
And if you dont shoot it into your wife (vagina only) isnt that spilling it and wasting it? As far as God is concerned its spilling if it means no new worshipers are possible.


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## toblerone

Middle of Everything said:


> Maybe refresh my memory. Whats the passage again?
> And if you dont shoot it into your wife (vagina only) isnt that spilling it and wasting it? As far as God is concerned its spilling if it means no new worshipers are possible.






> Genesis 38:8-10 ESV
> Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother's wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.


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## Cletus

God was more fun in the old testament, when offering up your virgin daughters to an angry mob was considered a righteous act.


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## Middle of Everything

WTF. So Onan was supposed to bone his brothers wife to impregnate her. But he thought in doing so they wouldnt be his kids and jizzed on the ground. So God killed him. Uhhhhhhhhhhh.

Would God have killed him if he would have gave her a pearl necklace or something?


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## toblerone

Yea Onan was too concerned about making sure his own (legitimate) heirs were provided for, so he didn't heed God's word to breed his dead brother's wife.


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## Maxwedge 413

The Old Testament is a very, very silly soap opera.


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## 269370

Middle of Everything said:


> WTF. So Onan was supposed to bone his brothers wife to impregnate her. But he thought in doing so they wouldnt be his kids and jizzed on the ground. So God killed him. Uhhhhhhhhhhh.
> 
> 
> 
> Would God have killed him if he would have gave her a pearl necklace or something?



But you are missing the more up to date interpretation of this passage where it clearly says that god was not actually talking about ordering him to have sex with his sister in law but in fact this passage is all about loving and getting along with your neighbour and having friends over for dinner. 

You see in old ancient Klingon, ‘feasting sexually on you sister in law’ really meant ordering appetisers and ‘jizzing all over the ground’ meant opening a bottle of bubbly with your friends and family.

And god getting pissed off and killing Onan off for not following the sex ploy properly really meant...that’s right, NY style cheese cake with strawberries for everyone.   

If only you read this at least in ancient Vulcan. Which confirms the same. Except the cheesecake could also have been apple strudel. this minor disagreement over dessert name was the reason for the crusades where millions upon millions lost their lives in different restaurants all over the continent.


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## Diana7

toblerone said:


> Too late. If you masturbate without porn you're still thinking of porny things.


IF you are married you can think about your wife.


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## toblerone

Diana7 said:


> IF you are married you can think about your wife.


But what if you're trying to have an orgasm?


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## Diana7

Cletus said:


> Bun
> 
> You can make a hamburger without meat too, but it tastes like crap.
> 
> My masturbation time, my circus, my monkeys. Not yours. I won't tell you how to masturbate, so perhaps you should just STFU and do the same.


Just saying that its possible. People do it all the time.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> IF you are married you can think about your wife.



Sometimes I think I would rather masturbate over a restraining order....(only sometimes).


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## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Just saying that its possible. People do it all the time.


Don't be disingenuous. 

You're saying that not only can it be done, but that you _should_ do it that way, and that you are less of a man if you do not.


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## Middle of Everything

Diana7 said:


> IF you are married you can think about your wife.


Nuh uh. The other Christian religion team says I cant. Rubbing one out is bad.


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## username77

I watch porn for 2 reasons:

1. Frequency my wife wants to do it
2. Experience fantasies/fetishes my wife won't entertain, even as a fantasy


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## Maxwedge 413

Diana7 said:


> IF you are married you can think about your wife.


Gross.


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## introvert

This thread has become so entertaining!


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## introvert

cletus said:


> god was more fun in the old testament, when offering up your virgin daughters to an angry mob was considered a righteous act.


rotflmao!!!


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## introvert

Cletus said:


> God was more fun in the old testament, when offering up your virgin daughters to an angry mob was considered a righteous act.


Let's not forget Lot's daughters getting him drunk so they could have sex with him and preserve the family line! The old testament apparently sanctioned incest as well.


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## Maxwedge 413

Middle of Everything said:


> Nuh uh. The other Christian religion team says I cant. Rubbing one out is bad.


Yeah I think the differing Christian leaders on here need to have a board meeting and figure out just how they want to shame and condemn us. D7 feels it's okay to pleasure oneself, but _only _ if thinking about your partner *. And CDad says that pleasuring youself, _ever_, is a chrime and betrayal against your partner. I'm not sure who's version of God is going to punish me for the feelings and inclinations that he himself built into me. So confusing.

*Why would I fantasize about something I already have? Do you ever watch movies or TV dramas? Or read fiction? Those are fantasies about something you cannot, or probably will not, do in your lifetime. But it's fun to have that escape. You don't _only_ watch home-movies of you and your family, do you?


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## peacem

Well...for the first time in my life I finally realise what it feels like to be given stipulations on porn use. And I am not happy.

The Uk government has decided that adults will not be able to access mainstream porn sites unless we provide our identity and proof of age (which is currently suggested as a credit card :surprise. This is due to start in April this year.

I am not a fan of porn, but the idea of anyone having to give their personal details to a website in order to view porn is absolutely ridiculous to the point of insanity. I am hoping that it will be 'enforced' on April 1st to which this whole thing will be revealed as the prank of the century from Teresa. 

For once words fail me.....


----------



## Maxwedge 413

introvert said:


> Let's not forget Lot's daughters getting him drunk so they could have sex with him and preserve the family line! The old testament apparently sanctioned incest as well.


Praise God and bang your kids! Now that's some 'Ol Time Religion!


----------



## Diana7

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Yeah I think the differing Christian leaders on here need to have a board meeting and figure out just how they want to shame and condemn us. D7 feels it's okay to pleasure oneself, but _only _ if thinking about your partner *. And CDad says that pleasuring youself, _ever_, is a chrime and betrayal against your partner. I'm not sure who's version of God is going to punish me for the feelings and inclinations that he himself built into me. So confusing.
> 
> *Why would I fantasize about something I already have? Do you ever watch movies or TV dramas? Or read fiction? Those are fantasies about something you cannot, or probably will not, do in your lifetime. But it's fun to have that escape. You don't _only_ watch home-movies of you and your family, do you?


RC's teach that masturbation is a sin, but I don't see that in the Bible. That's why we differ on this.


----------



## Personal

I view some pornography while married because I enjoy it and hope to be entertained, aroused and sometimes stimulated by it.


----------



## Diana7

peacem said:


> Well...for the first time in my life I finally realise what it feels like to be given stipulations on porn use. And I am not happy.
> 
> The Uk government has decided that adults will not be able to access mainstream porn sites unless we provide our identity and proof of age (which is currently suggested as a credit card :surprise. This is due to start in April this year.
> 
> I am not a fan of porn, but the idea of anyone having to give their personal details to a website in order to view porn is absolutely ridiculous to the point of insanity. I am hoping that it will be 'enforced' on April 1st to which this whole thing will be revealed as the prank of the century from Teresa.
> 
> For once words fail me.....


They are trying to protect children which is vital as porn use among children is rife and its having all sort of bad consequences such as more violent sexual attacks by children on other children, very low self esteem among boys and girls because of the porn they see, pressure put on girls to send naked pics to the boys and to do things they see in porn, boys seeing girls as sex objects. Many professional people are giving dire warnings about this very thing.


----------



## 269370

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I'm not sure who's version of God is going to punish me....


I am not sure either but as long as somebody brings along a rubber ball and a leather mask, I am game.>:moon::whip::absolut:


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> RC's teach that masturbation is a sin, but I don't see that in the Bible. That's why we differ on this.


I can't believe I am quoting stuff from bible but...

Matthew 5:27–30. 
Jesus speaks against having lustful thoughts and then says, “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.”

Seems Jesus was pretty clear on this. I think I may be one of the few fortunate ones since I get better grip with the left hand. So I might be ok.:smthumbup::yay::rules::cussing:


----------



## peacem

Diana7 said:


> They are trying to protect children which is vital as porn use among children is rife and its having all sort of bad consequences such as more violent sexual attacks by children on other children, very low self esteem among boys and girls because of the porn they see, pressure put on girls to send naked pics to the boys and to do things they see in porn, boys seeing girls as sex objects. Many professional people are giving dire warnings about this very thing.


Yes. But that's the joke. Young children should have the same filtering devices and supervision that I gave to my own children. Teenagers are very tech savvy and it will take them all of 5 minutes to get around the new laws. For those who are not tech savvy and are determined through their curiosity to find porn are more likely to end up on non-regulated, dodgy sites. 

It is the middle-age and older people that will struggle with this because they are going to be giving their personal details to a porn site that don't seem to be able to stop hackers. I would be mortified to think of my husband putting credit card details into a porn site and even more mortified if he was going to dodgy websites (I would prefer him to stay with mainstream porn sites that are not going to give the computers viruses where the material they have is legal and regulated). Can you imagine an ****** ******* type scenario where names plus their kink is published for anyone to see? 

That's the joke.


----------



## peacem

Getting slightly back on subject regarding porn in marriage: My sister is just completing a Phd in 'Women's Studies'. Part of her thesis was investigating the effects of porn on women in society. For the record she is a fairly staunch feminists and absolutely HATES the porn industry.

Her partner on the other hand is very comfortable discussing his porn - being in the building trade it is perfectly normal for men to talk openly about porn and even share things.

When I asked my sister how she reconciled her own feelings (that actually is partially based on academic research) with her partners love of porn she laughed out loud. She said it is not unusual for her partner to put on one of his old VHS porn movies whilst she is knitting next to him. Being my older sis she lectured me quite firmly that it is great to have your own values and opinions but if you love the person you are with you cannot control their own thoughts and point of view. Being very open about his porn use he has never really transgressed from VHS to internet because he has never had to - he has a fondness for the old days and doesn't need to sneak around. Those videos did the job then and will do the job now.

I think 'shame' over pornography can be a woman's worst enemy.


----------



## minimalME

peacem said:


> I think 'shame' over pornography can be a woman's worst enemy.


Do you mean shaming a man over secretly viewing pornorgraphy? (Genuine question.)

Cause there's absolutely nothing wrong/weird/unacceptable with having a personal standard about what I'm willing to allow in my life - even if it's via my partner.

I come from a family of addicts on both sides of my family. Hard drugs are a complete 'no' in my life. There is no debate or flexibility on this matter. 

Pornography is much the same. I grew up in a family where men could be somewhat fluid with sexual boundaries (which included giving me porn), and my ex-husband chose porn as his mistress.

Some people are vegan and refuse to have intimate relationships with meat eaters.

Some people wouldn't marry a person with certain political views.

Some people don't marry others outside of their faith.

I get to say what I allow into my life. And if (in terms of dating) men find that too controlling and unreasonable, then that's fine. We definitely wouldn't be compatible.


----------



## BellaBrooks

I am horribly and embarrassingly struggling with this issue in my marriage. Please bear with my story, because in my situation, context is everything.

I've been with my husband for 15+ years. Early on I knew he enjoyed some porn on occasion, never minded, and sometimes enjoyed it with him.

Soon after we married, we had a child and drifted apart, and became sexually alienated from each other. This went on for some years, and during that time I think he became (understandably) reliant on porn for his gratification. This also allowed him to duck the subject of our lack of intimacy and not push the issue.

Then, a few years ago, he started engaging in extra-marital affairs. Emotional affairs at first, where he was complaining about his discontent in his marriage to other women and listening to them do the same. Then, he escalated to receiving nude pictures from women he knew, hooking up with a woman at a bar, and then having a nude photos/ sexting affair with a woman at work. 

I was clueless about this. I knew we were physically alienated, but we were loving and friendly and I guess I didn't want to look at it too hard. With me still completely in the dark, he suddenly came to me and told me he was unhappy and didn't love me any more. I asked him about affairs and he denied any at that time. We ultimately sought counselling and long miserable months went by until I finally found evidence of one of the affairs (photos of a coworker) and he admitted to everything. At that point, he was remorseful and just wanted us to start over. Because I knew I wasn't blameless, I agreed.

Everything seemed wonderful for a while, then gradually got worse. Finally, last summer, he was back to "I'm not happy." I had been starting to suspect something was going on again, and although he denied I ultimately found out that he had been (at least) flirt-texting a LOT with a female coworker, and that he had driven her home at one point when he didn't come home until 2a.m. and wasn't answering my texts. He has denied denied denied that anything happened. I am skeptical.

Anyway, sorry, where the porn comes in. He met this woman coworker at an out-of-town conference. On the same weekend, he joined a live streaming porn site and put money into it that he could pay in "tips," basically like tipping a stripper in real time. He was also able to "chat" with the women on this site and had several that he was following. There is also an option (sorry, explicit) where you can "tip" a certain amount in order to activate a strategically-placed vibrator.

To me, this kind of porn crosses the line, knocks over the fence, and tramples all over a couple's private intimacy. It also felt, on discovery, like part of the infidelity package. Like he was casting a wide net to seek sexual gratification from others than me.

My husband sought therapy this time, at my urging, to figure out what was making him so unhappy and leading him to seek outside the marriage. He went to therapy for a short time and seemed massively improved very quickly. Back to being very affectionate and loving and remorseful that he had slipped into "old patterns."

I talked to him about the porn, and 1) the tipping system was not, and would never be, ok with me; and 2) under the circumstances, our intimacy just felt under attack and could he please just take a break from all forms of porn for a while. He agreed, readily.

Unfortunately, he has not been able to hold to that agreement. He has resumed viewing porn (at the same site but without "logging in"), even on weeks where we are being intimate almost every night. We have had additional talks, where he has promised to really give it up this time, but it never lasts.

For me, this has made porn--something that I would have scoffed at as a possible serious marital "issue"--into a problem that might at this point break our marriage.

I am trying so hard to regain the belief that I can trust him. I do love him so much. But I feel like I can't trust him to control his sexual urges. If he can't resist looking at porn under these circumstances, of having repeatedly violated my trust, and having made voluntary promises to stop...how can I trust him at all?

And how can I ever think about him using porn again without suspecting that it will inevitably escalate, in frequency, in level of engagement, and then shift into the more "real world" of flirty coworkers?

Please help.


----------



## username77

Maxwedge 413 said:


> Praise God and bang your kids! Now that's some 'Ol Time Religion!





> Judges 11:29 Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD : “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”


Apparently God back then loved human sacrifice (what else would be coming through the door to his home to meet him other a person and likely a family member or friend?)



> 34* When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child*. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “*Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break.”*
> 
> 36 *“My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised*, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
> 
> 38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, *she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin*.


People don't realize that this dude scrificed his virgin daughter by burning her alive. I mean he made a vow to God after-all. (why make such a stupid vow in the first place?)

That's some good Ol' Timey religion....


----------



## toblerone

BellaBrooks said:


> Please help.


Hi, you've stumbled into what you probably thought was a topical thread but has gone in some very strange places. It might be better if you posted this in a new thread because this post may be lost and you may get confused as there are some people talking past each other and not necessarily about your issue.


----------



## peacem

minimalME said:


> Do you mean shaming a man over secretly viewing pornorgraphy? (Genuine question.)


Yes. But also having a very rigid, negative view of pornography (as a woman) can hurt ourselves. We stab ourselves in the heart.

I actually agree with much Diana says regarding pornography and I think its a murky industry and I personally find modern porn mostly unappealing and sometimes downright disturbing. 

I think if you have a particular stance on porn you should not be persuaded to go with the flow just to be 'modern' - stick to your guns and be yourself. However, what I am saying is that it is perfectly possible to have a solid POV which may be vastly different to a spouse /partner, and still have a healthy marriage. It becomes unhealthy when one or the other allows it be so. 

We managed to reconcile our differences regarding porn when we watched it together. It pretty much broke the spell. We learned to see things from each others eyes and there was no more dagger in the heart. That is not to say we do not have other serious marital issues to sort out - porn is way down on my list of priorities :|.


----------



## BellaBrooks

toblerone said:


> It might be better if you posted this in a new thread because this post may be lost and you may get confused as there are some people talking past each other and not necessarily about your issue.


Thanks for the advice 
Sadly, I am a hapless noob and can't figure out how to start a new thread. Do I need a paid subscription to do that?

*figured it out. posting now. sorry


----------



## peacem

BellaBrooks said:


> I am horribly and embarrassingly struggling with this issue in my marriage. Please bear with my story, because in my situation, context is everything.
> 
> I've been with my husband for 15+ years. Early on I knew he enjoyed some porn on occasion, never minded, and sometimes enjoyed it with him.
> 
> Soon after we married, we had a child and drifted apart, and became sexually alienated from each other. This went on for some years, and during that time I think he became (understandably) reliant on porn for his gratification. This also allowed him to duck the subject of our lack of intimacy and not push the issue.
> 
> Then, a few years ago, he started engaging in extra-marital affairs. Emotional affairs at first, where he was complaining about his discontent in his marriage to other women and listening to them do the same. Then, he escalated to receiving nude pictures from women he knew, hooking up with a woman at a bar, and then having a nude photos/ sexting affair with a woman at work.
> 
> I was clueless about this. I knew we were physically alienated, but we were loving and friendly and I guess I didn't want to look at it too hard. With me still completely in the dark, he suddenly came to me and told me he was unhappy and didn't love me any more. I asked him about affairs and he denied any at that time. We ultimately sought counselling and long miserable months went by until I finally found evidence of one of the affairs (photos of a coworker) and he admitted to everything. At that point, he was remorseful and just wanted us to start over. Because I knew I wasn't blameless, I agreed.
> 
> Everything seemed wonderful for a while, then gradually got worse. Finally, last summer, he was back to "I'm not happy." I had been starting to suspect something was going on again, and although he denied I ultimately found out that he had been (at least) flirt-texting a LOT with a female coworker, and that he had driven her home at one point when he didn't come home until 2a.m. and wasn't answering my texts. He has denied denied denied that anything happened. I am skeptical.
> 
> Anyway, sorry, where the porn comes in. He met this woman coworker at an out-of-town conference. On the same weekend, he joined a live streaming porn site and put money into it that he could pay in "tips," basically like tipping a stripper in real time. He was also able to "chat" with the women on this site and had several that he was following. There is also an option (sorry, explicit) where you can "tip" a certain amount in order to activate a strategically-placed vibrator.
> 
> To me, this kind of porn crosses the line, knocks over the fence, and tramples all over a couple's private intimacy. It also felt, on discovery, like part of the infidelity package. Like he was casting a wide net to seek sexual gratification from others than me.
> 
> My husband sought therapy this time, at my urging, to figure out what was making him so unhappy and leading him to seek outside the marriage. He went to therapy for a short time and seemed massively improved very quickly. Back to being very affectionate and loving and remorseful that he had slipped into "old patterns."
> 
> I talked to him about the porn, and 1) the tipping system was not, and would never be, ok with me; and 2) under the circumstances, our intimacy just felt under attack and could he please just take a break from all forms of porn for a while. He agreed, readily.
> 
> Unfortunately, he has not been able to hold to that agreement. He has resumed viewing porn (at the same site but without "logging in"), even on weeks where we are being intimate almost every night. We have had additional talks, where he has promised to really give it up this time, but it never lasts.
> 
> For me, this has made porn--something that I would have scoffed at as a possible serious marital "issue"--into a problem that might at this point break our marriage.
> 
> I am trying so hard to regain the belief that I can trust him. I do love him so much. But I feel like I can't trust him to control his sexual urges. If he can't resist looking at porn under these circumstances, of having repeatedly violated my trust, and having made voluntary promises to stop...how can I trust him at all?
> 
> And how can I ever think about him using porn again without suspecting that it will inevitably escalate, in frequency, in level of engagement, and then shift into the more "real world" of flirty coworkers?
> 
> Please help.


I'm really sorry you have been through all that. What a mess. Your husband needs to get back to therapy because porn is a symptom of some deep problem that is probably out of your control. For my H it was abuse in his childhood and some other trauma based events. Alcoholics largely suffer from other mental health issues...its the same with people who act out sexually are masking deeper issues (self-loathing is often a familiar theme).

Do you want to stay with him and work it through?


----------



## username77

Women's hamstering is in full effect. They scream about being able to walk around topless showing their breasts (but men can't look). They want sexual freedom to sleep around (but men can't judge them for it, and want a woman with less partners). They want to be able to do pornography as a liberating lifestyle choice (but men shouldn't view it and use it as a sexual replacement or judge them for it).


----------



## Personal

@username77 ^^^^ colour me confused, what on earth are you trying to say and what is your point?


----------



## Notself

Personal said:


> @username77 ^^^^ colour me confused, what on earth are you trying to say and what is your point?


"Hamstering" is a red pill term that just means putting yourself through mental gymnastics for the purpose of justifying a doubtful conclusion. 

I'm not a redpiller, but when you're right, you're right.


----------



## Personal

@Notself thanks for the clarification.


----------



## username77

Notself said:


> "Hamstering" is a red pill term that just means putting yourself through mental gymnastics for the purpose of justifying a doubtful conclusion.
> 
> I'm not a redpiller, but when you're right, you're right.


This is basically right on, I'm not a redpiller either, but they're not all wrong, they make a lot of good points. 

When you take most women's already inflated egos, and their grossly deluded sense of entitlement, and couple that with the attitudes of the selfish and entitled millennial generation, you get what we have today. Insufferable women no one wants to be around. They want to be ****s, but expect you to not have an opinion or prefer a more chaste woman. In essence they want to control your thoughts and opinions on what amounts to a very important factor in determining a long term committed relationship. They want to be equals, but still hold onto all the special status 'female' brings them. They want to be strong, independent, and empowered, but not be held accountable for their actions, and treated like children and special snowflakes when it suits them. They want women to be celebrated for ****ing on camera for money, but god forbid a dude watches it, then he's a disgusting pig.

It's why a woman who essentially had bad sex with Aziz Ansari is now hailed a sex assault survivor and hero. Mind you she met him with her boyfriend and only wanted to sleep with him because of his celebrity status (but whose judging her right? that would be bad to call it what it is). If a man relayed an intimate sexual encounter with a woman and talked about what he found off-putting about her and the experience on a public forum,, they would want him charged with a crime (harassment, stalking), and he would be derided as a misogynistic pig.

The hamstering is impossibly strong with women these days.


----------



## minimalME

username77 said:


> Women's hamstering is in full effect. They scream about being able to walk around topless showing their breasts (but men can't look). They want sexual freedom to sleep around (but men can't judge them for it, and want a woman with less partners). They want to be able to do pornography as a liberating lifestyle choice (but men shouldn't view it and use it as a sexual replacement or judge them for it).


That's painting with a very broad stroke. Not all of us believe these things. But, of course, then many on this forum turn around and mock those here who don't agree with what you've written above.

I don't believe that women should wear whatever they want, say whatever they want, and do whatever they want - with little to no regard of how it effects those around them. 

I had a long talk with one of my daughters prior to sending her off to college. I stressed how important it was for her to not drink in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. I told her that getting drunk and then expecting men to act in a noble fashion (not take advantage of a drunk woman) was an unrealistic expectation.

During my time studying midwifery, public breastfeeding was another one of those issues. I believe in covering. The majority of women I know don't, and they expect men to just 'get over it'. To me, that's a denial of the masculine nature - and it's emasculating.

I believe that equality is fine and good in objective realms. We're equal as human beings, women should be able to vote, own property, earn a living with equal pay for the same work, etc.

But equality is a myth in terms of intimacy between men and women. We are not the same. (And I believe that gender is an absolute.) And it's so disheartening that relationships have become such a huge minefield.

Sorry for the threadjack.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

*USERNAME77* "People don't realize that this dude scrificed his virgin daughter by burning her alive. I mean he made a vow to God after-all. (why make such a stupid vow in the first place?)

That's some good Ol' Timey religion...."

And yet Mahatma Gandhi is trapped in Purgatory because he never uttered the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior". God sounds like a mean kid pulling legs off grasshoppers.


----------



## username77

Maxwedge 413 said:


> *USERNAME77* "People don't realize that this dude scrificed his virgin daughter by burning her alive. I mean he made a vow to God after-all. (why make such a stupid vow in the first place?)
> 
> That's some good Ol' Timey religion...."
> 
> And yet Mahatma Gandhi is trapped in Purgatory because he never uttered the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior". God sounds like a mean kid pulling legs off grasshoppers.


Gandhi was also a virulent racist, he hated black people and felt they were below him. He was offended having to share a prison cell with them

Sure it has to be taken in context, and if you boil anyone's life down to their 10 worst moments we all look like monsters. But that's the problem of putting anyone on a pedestal or calling them a "saint". Dig deep enough and no one can fill those shoes. If you take any major religion as reality we're all getting the hot foot.


----------



## As'laDain

peacem said:


> Well...for the first time in my life I finally realise what it feels like to be given stipulations on porn use. And I am not happy.
> 
> The Uk government has decided that adults will not be able to access mainstream porn sites unless we provide our identity and proof of age (which is currently suggested as a credit card :surprise. This is due to start in April this year.
> 
> I am not a fan of porn, but the idea of anyone having to give their personal details to a website in order to view porn is absolutely ridiculous to the point of insanity. I am hoping that it will be 'enforced' on April 1st to which this whole thing will be revealed as the prank of the century from Teresa.
> 
> For once words fail me.....


get familiar with VPN's and TOR.


----------



## Cletus

username77 said:


> That's some good Ol' Timey religion....


And make no mistake about it. That is the same god that every Christian today worships. No amount of sugar coating the message negates this.


----------



## Laurentium

peacem said:


> Well...for the first time in my life I finally realise what it feels like to be given stipulations on porn use. And I am not happy.
> 
> The Uk government has decided that adults will not be able to access mainstream porn sites unless we provide our identity and proof of age (which is currently suggested as a credit card :surprise. This is due to start in April this year.
> 
> I am not a fan of porn, but the idea of anyone having to give their personal details to a website in order to view porn is absolutely ridiculous to the point of insanity. I am hoping that it will be 'enforced' on April 1st to which this whole thing will be revealed as the prank of the century from Teresa.
> 
> For once words fail me.....


I am not giving any porn site my credit card number. I wonder if they realise how many votes they might lose, given that we have secret ballot?


----------



## Diana7

peacem said:


> Yes. But that's the joke. Young children should have the same filtering devices and supervision that I gave to my own children. Teenagers are very tech savvy and it will take them all of 5 minutes to get around the new laws. For those who are not tech savvy and are determined through their curiosity to find porn are more likely to end up on non-regulated, dodgy sites.
> 
> It is the middle-age and older people that will struggle with this because they are going to be giving their personal details to a porn site that don't seem to be able to stop hackers. I would be mortified to think of my husband putting credit card details into a porn site and even more mortified if he was going to dodgy websites (I would prefer him to stay with mainstream porn sites that are not going to give the computers viruses where the material they have is legal and regulated). Can you imagine an ****** ******* type scenario where names plus their kink is published for anyone to see?
> 
> That's the joke.


Hopefully it will put many people off doing it in that case.


----------



## Diana7

username77 said:


> Gandhi was also a virulent racist, he hated black people and felt they were below him. He was offended having to share a prison cell with them
> 
> Sure it has to be taken in context, and if you boil anyone's life down to their 10 worst moments we all look like monsters. But that's the problem of putting anyone on a pedestal or calling them a "saint". Dig deep enough and no one can fill those shoes. If you take any major religion as reality we're all getting the hot foot.


The thing is that as a Christian I am well aware that none of us are perfect and that we all have weaknesses and failings if you look belong the surface, no matter how 'good' they seem to be, and that's why we need Jesus Christ because only He is perfect and able to die in our place. Ghandi was no more 'good' than many others. As you mentioned he was racist, so he had his issues as well.


----------



## Notself

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that as a Christian I am well aware that none of us are perfect and that we all have weaknesses and failings if you look belong the surface, no matter how 'good' they seem to be, and that's why we need Jesus Christ because only He is perfect and able to die in our place.


Funny, I just came here to say the same thing about Mithras!


----------



## CatholicDad

Men can live without porn and masturbation. It takes only a very strong will, especially in this "immediately satisfy every urge" culture.

I think true Christians follow Jesus's words about lusting in your heart being akin to adultery... go look up the quote. You can't really call yourself a Christian if you ignore what Jesus actually said! If you do, your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway... sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife!


----------



## Maxwedge 413

..


----------



## Machjo

username77 said:


> Women's hamstering is in full effect. They scream about being able to walk around topless showing their breasts (but men can't look). They want sexual freedom to sleep around (but men can't judge them for it, and want a woman with less partners). They want to be able to do pornography as a liberating lifestyle choice (but men shouldn't view it and use it as a sexual replacement or judge them for it).


Don't confuse women with feminists. They're not the same thing.


----------



## Steve1000

CatholicDad said:


> Men can live without porn and masturbation. It takes only a very strong will, especially in this "immediately satisfy every urge" culture.
> 
> I think true Christians follow Jesus's words about lusting in your heart being akin to adultery... go look up the quote. You can't really call yourself a Christian if you ignore what Jesus actually said! If you do, your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway... sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife!


I assume that you're a good person and you express your sincere beliefs, but *everyon*e, including you, ignores some of the teachings of Jesus.


----------



## username77

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that as a Christian I am well aware that none of us are perfect and that we all have weaknesses and failings if you look belong the surface, no matter how 'good' they seem to be, and that's why we need Jesus Christ because only He is perfect and able to die in our place. Ghandi was no more 'good' than many others. As you mentioned he was racist, so he had his issues as well.


I like a lot of teachings of Jesus, the world he lived in was brutal and he was definitely way ahead of his time in terms of philosophy. But I think his "deification" came at a much later date, and Christianity today would confuse him greatly. He wouldn't understand what anyone is going on about. I really think Jesus would be like "where the hell did you guys come up with this crap?".

I'm "spiritual not religious", I think it boils down to, being a decent person, say sorry when you fail, more or less the 10 commandments, and you can pray to God whenever you want. You don't have to take your sins and put them on someone else to achieve God's forgiveness, or pray to his son, or saints, or his mother. If God is all omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, isn't He capable of a little common sense? The guy who stole a cell phone when he was 11 and felt bad about it and said he was sorry isn't the same as the serial rapist? I think the all powerful being of the universe can figure it out without an abject human sacrifice of his own son (which again makes no sense).

The Christian Trinity also flies in the face of monotheism. No matter how you try to explain or spin it, God the Father, The Son, and Holy Ghost are three distinct beings, apart from one another, not separate manifestations of the same God. The Son was created, created beings cannot be God, God cannot be "tempted" by the devil. Obviously this doctrine came about through pagan influences in the early Church. Add in deification of the devil, angels, other beings and Saints with super powers (although not as great as Gods) and you have a nearly full blown pantheon of gods in Christianity. With Catholics and their Saints their pantheon of gods is rivaled only by Hinduism. It's why Jews rejected it outright, God is one, has no equal, has no partner, isn't created. They couldn't buy what Christians were selling because it flies in the face of thousands of years of monotheistic teachings. It's why Christianity is only ingrained in areas where polytheism was the norm, the Trinity wasn't much of a stretch at all. Then factor in all the other beings and Thor becomes Saint Michael, etc...


----------



## username77

CatholicDad said:


> Jesus actually said! If you do, your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway... sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife!


Only if you're right and 1 billion Muslims, or 1 billion Hindus are wrong.

To a Muslim you're an idolater, you kneel before a statue of a Saint (man or woman who were "good Catholics"), pray and light candles as your offering to them. This is clearly idol worship deserving of death, even from your own book and you're going to hell.


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## As'laDain

CatholicDad said:


> Men can live without porn and masturbation. It takes only a very strong will, especially in this "immediately satisfy every urge" culture.
> 
> I think true Christians follow Jesus's words about lusting in your heart being akin to adultery... go look up the quote. You can't really call yourself a Christian if you ignore what Jesus actually said! If you do, * your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway...sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife! *


so now you claim to know who is going to heaven and who is not?

interesting. i dont remember reading anything about pornography in the bible. except maybe song of solomon, which is absolutely FULL of erotic imagery. i guess that makes sense. after all, the "wisest man that ever lived" had hundreds of wives and concubines. 

but since we are talking about what Jesus actually said...

Mathew 7:1-3


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## 269370

peacem said:


> Getting slightly back on subject regarding porn in marriage: My sister is just completing a Phd in 'Women's Studies'. Part of her thesis was investigating the effects of porn on women in society. For the record she is a fairly staunch feminists and absolutely HATES the porn industry.
> 
> Her partner on the other hand is very comfortable discussing his porn - being in the building trade it is perfectly normal for men to talk openly about porn and even share things.
> 
> When I asked my sister how she reconciled her own feelings (that actually is partially based on academic research) with her partners love of porn she laughed out loud. She said it is not unusual for her partner to put on one of his old VHS porn movies whilst she is knitting next to him. Being my older sis she lectured me quite firmly that it is great to have your own values and opinions but if you love the person you are with you cannot control their own thoughts and point of view. Being very open about his porn use he has never really transgressed from VHS to internet because he has never had to - he has a fondness for the old days and doesn't need to sneak around. Those videos did the job then and will do the job now.
> 
> I think 'shame' over pornography can be a woman's worst enemy.




Wait wait wait...She is a staunch feminist and is KNITTING next to her husband in bed while he is performing the handy work on himself?
This feminist thing is really getting out of hand 🤚...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

BellaBrooks said:


> I am horribly and embarrassingly struggling with this issue in my marriage. Please bear with my story, because in my situation, context is everything.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been with my husband for 15+ years. Early on I knew he enjoyed some porn on occasion, never minded, and sometimes enjoyed it with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Soon after we married, we had a child and drifted apart, and became sexually alienated from each other. This went on for some years, and during that time I think he became (understandably) reliant on porn for his gratification. This also allowed him to duck the subject of our lack of intimacy and not push the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, a few years ago, he started engaging in extra-marital affairs. Emotional affairs at first, where he was complaining about his discontent in his marriage to other women and listening to them do the same. Then, he escalated to receiving nude pictures from women he knew, hooking up with a woman at a bar, and then having a nude photos/ sexting affair with a woman at work.
> 
> 
> 
> I was clueless about this. I knew we were physically alienated, but we were loving and friendly and I guess I didn't want to look at it too hard. With me still completely in the dark, he suddenly came to me and told me he was unhappy and didn't love me any more. I asked him about affairs and he denied any at that time. We ultimately sought counselling and long miserable months went by until I finally found evidence of one of the affairs (photos of a coworker) and he admitted to everything. At that point, he was remorseful and just wanted us to start over. Because I knew I wasn't blameless, I agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything seemed wonderful for a while, then gradually got worse. Finally, last summer, he was back to "I'm not happy." I had been starting to suspect something was going on again, and although he denied I ultimately found out that he had been (at least) flirt-texting a LOT with a female coworker, and that he had driven her home at one point when he didn't come home until 2a.m. and wasn't answering my texts. He has denied denied denied that anything happened. I am skeptical.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, sorry, where the porn comes in. He met this woman coworker at an out-of-town conference. On the same weekend, he joined a live streaming porn site and put money into it that he could pay in "tips," basically like tipping a stripper in real time. He was also able to "chat" with the women on this site and had several that he was following. There is also an option (sorry, explicit) where you can "tip" a certain amount in order to activate a strategically-placed vibrator.
> 
> 
> 
> To me, this kind of porn crosses the line, knocks over the fence, and tramples all over a couple's private intimacy. It also felt, on discovery, like part of the infidelity package. Like he was casting a wide net to seek sexual gratification from others than me.
> 
> 
> 
> My husband sought therapy this time, at my urging, to figure out what was making him so unhappy and leading him to seek outside the marriage. He went to therapy for a short time and seemed massively improved very quickly. Back to being very affectionate and loving and remorseful that he had slipped into "old patterns."
> 
> 
> 
> I talked to him about the porn, and 1) the tipping system was not, and would never be, ok with me; and 2) under the circumstances, our intimacy just felt under attack and could he please just take a break from all forms of porn for a while. He agreed, readily.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, he has not been able to hold to that agreement. He has resumed viewing porn (at the same site but without "logging in"), even on weeks where we are being intimate almost every night. We have had additional talks, where he has promised to really give it up this time, but it never lasts.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, this has made porn--something that I would have scoffed at as a possible serious marital "issue"--into a problem that might at this point break our marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying so hard to regain the belief that I can trust him. I do love him so much. But I feel like I can't trust him to control his sexual urges. If he can't resist looking at porn under these circumstances, of having repeatedly violated my trust, and having made voluntary promises to stop...how can I trust him at all?
> 
> 
> 
> And how can I ever think about him using porn again without suspecting that it will inevitably escalate, in frequency, in level of engagement, and then shift into the more "real world" of flirty coworkers?
> 
> 
> 
> Please help.




Forgive me for jumping the gun. It’s just that by now I have read so many of these stories (both sides). When you say that after you had a baby you ‘drifted apart’. Does it mean you guys stopped having sex? I know this is completely understandable after having a baby. 

But just a general and useless observation to any women out there: if you want to keep your husband and not have them look at porn (too much), have regular enthusiastic sex with them. It will work miracles!

And men: .... after I work out what it is that women want or need, I will let you know...I know they want something because they are often complaining. But it’s not as simple as the sex thing...Maybe don’t be afraid asking for sex because women can’t read your mind...Oh and stop sulking, resenting and playing the victim.
And also listen and say sorry at regular intervals. Be sensitive and gentle but also totally masculine and domineering...Tell them what you feel but not in a needy way...🤨


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CatholicDad

username77 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus actually said! If you do, your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway... sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife!
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you're right and 1 billion Muslims, or 1 billion Hindus are wrong.
> 
> To a Muslim you're an idolater, you kneel before a statue of a Saint (man or woman who were "good Catholics"), pray and light candles as your offering to them. This is clearly idol worship deserving of death, even from your own book and you're going to hell.
Click to expand...

You have a poor understanding of Catholicism. Catholics aren't idolaters, rather we ask the saints and our dead loved ones to pray for us. Do you talk to your dead loved ones... because it is no different. 

Man, people get so offended about their porn.... think you actually threatened my life over it. You must really love it, huh?


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## CatholicDad

Since username77 brought it up, I'd actually like to respectfully ask how other religions handle porn. Is it allowed? I won't criticize.


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## Cletus

CatholicDad said:


> Since username77 brought it up, I'd actually like to respectfully ask how other religions handle porn. Is it allowed? I won't criticize.


Given the number of buggered altar boys, it seems the RCC could probably stand to adjust its stance a little on this one.


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## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> Men can live without porn and masturbation. It takes only a very strong will, especially in this "immediately satisfy every urge" culture.
> 
> I think true Christians follow Jesus's words about lusting in your heart being akin to adultery... go look up the quote. You can't really call yourself a Christian if you ignore what Jesus actually said! If you do, your probably one of those who's going to get "vomited out" anyway... sorry to bust anyone's plans of the afterlife!


But you could just be really really really sorry, after you finished and cleaned yourself up, embrace Jesus and up you go to the afterlife. Same with rapists and serial killers: all they have to do is repent and all will be forgiven.

Somehow heaven doesn't seem as safe as it's being advertised, especially for the kids.

Whereas a bunch of stubborn but level headed and balanced atheists will be bored to death in hell (because there won't be any religious nuts to debate with).
And because they forgot to say hi to Jesus, even though they haven't hurt a fly all their lives.


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## snerg

inmyprime said:


> Wait wait wait...She is a staunch feminist and is KNITTING next to her husband in bed while he is performing the handy work on himself?
> This feminist thing is really getting out of *hand *🤚...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see what you did there


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## Cletus

inmyprime said:


> Whereas a bunch of stubborn but level headed and balanced atheists will be bored to death in hell (because there won't be any religious nuts to debate with).


Have you never seen South Park? All the best people are in hell.

The correct answer was "Mormon".


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## Machjo

Cletus said:


> Have you never seen South Park? All the best people are in hell.
> 
> The correct answer was "Mormon".


How does a Mormon juggle so many wives? My greatest fear would be to not be able to treat my wives equally between them. Jealousy would inevitably prevail. How do Mormons do it?


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## 269370

Machjo said:


> How does a Mormon juggle so many wives? My greatest fear would be to not be able to treat my wives equally between them. Jealousy would be inevitable. How do Mormons do it?


Simples. You resent them all equally, and graciously. :smthumbup:


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## Machjo

'Honey, I was thinking of taking a second wife. What do you think?'


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## Cletus

Machjo said:


> How does a Mormon juggle so many wives? My greatest fear would be to not be able to treat my wives equally between them. Jealousy would inevitably prevail. How do Mormons do it?


Mormons in general don't do it. It's only the fundamentalist sects in Colorado City / Hildale and other small enclaves who openly practice polygamy these days.

Fairness doesn't come into play. Their Prophet, like Warren Jeffries, rules with an iron fist.


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## username77

CatholicDad said:


> You have a poor understanding of Catholicism. Catholics aren't idolaters, rather we ask the saints and our dead loved ones to pray for us. Do you talk to your dead loved ones... because it is no different.
> 
> Man, people get so offended about their porn.... think you actually threatened my life over it. You must really love it, huh?


Aren't you the one gloating about everyone burning in hell? No one threatened your life, stop being so histrionic.

I've been a catholic for a good portion of my life, the "saints" and praying before statues, lighting candles before them and asking them to intercede because they have more power than you is looking at them as gods (small g). It's a holdover from European paganism.

The saints, angels, devil and his minions, all other super powered beings with God at the top, his son to a lesser degree also a god, is basically a pantheon of gods masked as monotheism.


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## Machjo

CatholicDad said:


> Since username77 brought it up, I'd actually like to respectfully ask how other religions handle porn. Is it allowed? I won't criticize.


The Baha'i Faith does not allow masturbation, though it's a personal matter. No confessing to people, asking forgiveness from God only.


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## Machjo

Religion aside though, regardless of one's stance of porn, I'd imagine most people would still support enough regulation to prevent exploitating a person or coercing that person into porn and to help porn addicts leave it.


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## cknpro

I've read most of this thread and it is hard to tell how many grey heads are commenting. It seems most are in the younger set. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes it is good to hear from folks that have been in the battle for years, suffering defeat and victory. The conversation around Christianity is also interesting. It really helps me understand Gandhi's quote "there would be more Christians if it were not for some Christians." - at least I have heard it attributed to him. 

I am a long grey beard of both persuasions - I have a porn habit of old and been a Christian for 20 years. The porn started at 12 for me. Old 70‘s stuff, at the birth of the modern industry. I was converted to Christ at 25. Being converted does not remove temptation nor does it make you magically able to withstand it. The question of it being adulterous or not is not a new one. I personally believe Jesus knows us and that is why he answered the lust question the way he did. Sin begins with a thought in the mind that leads to action. Just as murder begins as hate. Jesus always went back to the heart and mind, and pointed us to where the law was meant to be, in our hearts. 

From that point, I can say for me that porn is tantamount to adultery as it is the beginning of sin, if not sin itself. I do in fact believe it is sin on its own though. It is a lack of self control. 

But in a marriage it is hardly ever one sided, and in fact it shouldn't be. Porn is different for everybody. I can understand that. I've done enough deep searching into it to know it doesn't mean the same for everyone. Many claim, some here, that porn can be brought into the marriage with positive results. I seriously question that. I would ask those that make that claim to examine what it is bringing and why. Ask yourself 'what if I'd never seen porn?' I know it's a far fetched hypothetical, but... What if? 

For me - I would have had an honest start to marriage. I would not have turned into a liar to my wife. I would not have unreal expectations of her, or myself for that matter. I would be more satisfied with my average sex life. 

But it goes both ways. I heard the OP's statement that she was 'available' to her husband, and that she was engaged. I would ask her to be honest with herself as well. Ask him what he thinks of her "availability." My wife is available to me as well. But she is LD, and unenthusiastic. She never seeks it for herself. And there is NOTHING that turns a man on more than a turned on woman. "Turned on" can mean different things to different men, but the basic premise is the same - a woman that is turned on is appreciating the manliness, the sexuality, of her man. That is what most every man I know seeks. To be accepted and appreciated for who he is. Even the horn-dog tomcats out there seek that (as I know, I was one.) Find a woman that fulfills and maintain that and the most raucous player will devote his life to her. The problem is it takes work and vulnerability from both parties to maintain such relationship. We all get lazy and selfish. And that, to me, is where the sin of porn mostly lies - laziness and selfishness - often on both parties. 

I went through years of work and some time in therapy to understand where my own problem stemmed. I was addicted to porn, though I always preferred my wife. Like any addiction, it starts as mental or emotional, then become physical dependency. You have to work your way out like you worked your way in. 

I gotta go now. Maybe more later. But my final word today is to avoid it if possible, stop it otherwise. It has nothing really valuable to bring to a committed marriage that can't be found in other, less dangerous places.


----------



## peacem

Why is it that guys never get hurt by women watching porn - quite the opposite, it is usually an arousing thought. And I have heard from a dear friend that gay men do not have any hang ups of their partners using porn - generally speaking.


----------



## Diana7

cknpro said:


> I've read most of this thread and it is hard to tell how many grey heads are commenting. It seems most are in the younger set. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes it is good to hear from folks that have been in the battle for years, suffering defeat and victory. The conversation around Christianity is also interesting. It really helps me understand Gandhi's quote "there would be more Christians if it were not for some Christians." - at least I have heard it attributed to him.
> 
> I am a long grey beard of both persuasions - I have a porn habit of old and been a Christian for 20 years. The porn started at 12 for me. Old 70‘s stuff, at the birth of the modern industry. I was converted to Christ at 25. Being converted does not remove temptation nor does it make you magically able to withstand it. The question of it being adulterous or not is not a new one. I personally believe Jesus knows us and that is why he answered the lust question the way he did. Sin begins with a thought in the mind that leads to action. Just as murder begins as hate. Jesus always went back to the heart and mind, and pointed us to where the law was meant to be, in our hearts.
> 
> From that point, I can say for me that porn is tantamount to adultery as it is the beginning of sin, if not sin itself. I do in fact believe it is sin on its own though. It is a lack of self control.
> 
> But in a marriage it is hardly ever one sided, and in fact it shouldn't be. Porn is different for everybody. I can understand that. I've done enough deep searching into it to know it doesn't mean the same for everyone. Many claim, some here, that porn can be brought into the marriage with positive results. I seriously question that. I would ask those that make that claim to examine what it is bringing and why. Ask yourself 'what if I'd never seen porn?' I know it's a far fetched hypothetical, but... What if?
> 
> For me - I would have had an honest start to marriage. I would not have turned into a liar to my wife. I would not have unreal expectations of her, or myself for that matter. I would be more satisfied with my average sex life.
> 
> But it goes both ways. I heard the OP's statement that she was 'available' to her husband, and that she was engaged. I would ask her to be honest with herself as well. Ask him what he thinks of her "availability." My wife is available to me as well. But she is LD, and unenthusiastic. She never seeks it for herself. And there is NOTHING that turns a man on more than a turned on woman. "Turned on" can mean different things to different men, but the basic premise is the same - a woman that is turned on is appreciating the manliness, the sexuality, of her man. That is what most every man I know seeks. To be accepted and appreciated for who he is. Even the horn-dog tomcats out there seek that (as I know, I was one.) Find a woman that fulfills and maintain that and the most raucous player will devote his life to her. The problem is it takes work and vulnerability from both parties to maintain such relationship. We all get lazy and selfish. And that, to me, is where the sin of porn mostly lies - laziness and selfishness - often on both parties.
> 
> I went through years of work and some time in therapy to understand where my own problem stemmed. I was addicted to porn, though I always preferred my wife. Like any addiction, it starts as mental or emotional, then become physical dependency. You have to work your way out like you worked your way in.
> 
> I gotta go now. Maybe more later. But my final word today is to avoid it if possible, stop it otherwise. It has nothing really valuable to bring to a committed marriage that can't be found in other, less dangerous places.


You make some good points but again you seem to be sort of semi blaming the fact that some wives don't act like the women in the porn films as an excuse as to why some men use porn. However the use of porn will MAKE many men dissatisfied with a normal relationship because of course the women are acting, pretending to be that way. Just as a woman may well become dissatisfied with her man if she reads loads of romance/erotic novels. 

I hear so much that its ok to look at porn if your spouse doesn't want sex as much as you do or at all. I strongly believe that we need to make the right decisions ourselves regardless of how our spouse acts. So while they may be acting badly by refusing sex, that doesn't give us the excuse to act badly ourselves by turning to porn. I know that these days everyone blames others for their bad behaviour, but personal responsibility is so important. 

Like you I am older, and like you a Christian. The older I get the more I recognise how incredibly damaging the whole porn industry is. How many marriages have been destroyed by porn and lies and comparisons made. Dissatisfaction is deadly to a marriage, we need to stay away from anything that make us that way towards our spouse. 

I believe that I need to focus my mind and body 100% on my husband when it comes to sex.


----------



## minimalME

peacem said:


> Why is it that guys never get hurt by women watching porn - quite the opposite, it is usually an arousing thought. And I have heard from a dear friend that gay men do not have any hang ups of their partners using porn - generally speaking.


Cause guys are sexual insatiable - for the most part. They're up for just about anything.


----------



## Diana7

peacem said:


> Why is it that guys never get hurt by women watching porn - quite the opposite, it is usually an arousing thought. And I have heard from a dear friend that gay men do not have any hang ups of their partners using porn - generally speaking.


Some would. Those who don't think its right to bring porn into the marriage feel the same for their wives as for themselves.


----------



## cknpro

Diana7 said:


> You make some good points but again you seem to be sort of semi blaming the fact that some wives don't act like the women in the porn films as an excuse as to why some men use porn. However the use of porn will MAKE many men dissatisfied with a normal relationship because of course there women are acting, pretending to be that way. Just as a women may well become dissatisfied with her man if she reads loads of romance/erotic novels.
> 
> 
> 
> I hear so much that its ok to look at porn if your spouse doesn't want sex as much as you do or at all. I strongly believe that we need to make the right decisions ourselves regardless of how our spouse acts. So while they may be acting badly by refusing sex, that doesn't give us the excuse to act badly ourselves by turning to porn. I know that these days everyone blames others for their bad behaviour, but personal responsibility is so important.
> 
> 
> 
> Like you I am older, and like you a Christian. The older I get the more I recognise how incredibly damaging the whole porn industry is. How many marriages have been destroyed by porn and lies and comparisons made. Dissatisfaction is deadly to a marriage, we need to stay away from anything that make us that way towards our spouse.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that I need to focus my mind and body 100% on my husband when it comes to sex.



I sorry if it seemed that I was blaming my wife, or wives in general. We are all wholly responsible for our actions. 
In that, we are then totally responsible for how we act towards our spouse. When I would choose to pursue porn rather than my wife - because porn was easier and hit the buttons consistently and effectively - that was totally on me and me alone. It was my bad choice and falling to a temptation that I knew was against her wishes. I thank my Lord that she is a forgiving wife. 

However - it was/is equally totally on her when she chooses to not put emphasis on the sexual part of our marriage, when she chooses her inhibitions over her husband. The two parties choices are mutually exclusive but have mutual affects on the other. I simply meant to say neither spouse is perfect and both spouses need to attend to the needs and desires of the other. When a wife refuses to release herself to her husband, that is a choice she makes that can have consequences. 
Can we imagine a marriage where both parties focus on the other rather than themselves being anything but great? If I focus on meeting my spouses desires and she mine - will not both our desires be met? Of course they will to a great extent and where there may be a shortfall, grace becomes easier to apply. But it takes both being willing to look past themselves to reach this state. 

Your last statement is exactly what should happen and I’m sure your husband is blessed by it. I hope he thanks you often and reciprocates in kind and in deed in whatever needs you have. 

No growth occurs in our comfort zone, so growth only happens when we accept vulnerability.


----------



## peacem

cknpro said:


> And that, to me, is where the sin of porn mostly lies - laziness and selfishness - often on both parties.


Yes! Inflexibility and lack of empathy is a form of laziness and selfishness. It works both ways. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Diana7

cknpro said:


> I sorry if it seemed that I was blaming my wife, or wives in general. We are all wholly responsible for our actions.
> In that, we are then totally responsible for how we act towards our spouse. When I would choose to pursue porn rather than my wife - because porn was easier and hit the buttons consistently and effectively - that was totally on me and me alone. It was my bad choice and falling to a temptation that I knew was against her wishes. I thank my Lord that she is a forgiving wife.
> 
> However - it was/is equally totally on her when she chooses to not put emphasis on the sexual part of our marriage, when she chooses her inhibitions over her husband. The two parties choices are mutually exclusive but have mutual affects on the other. I simply meant to say neither spouse is perfect and both spouses need to attend to the needs and desires of the other. When a wife refuses to release herself to her husband, that is a choice she makes that can have consequences.
> Can we imagine a marriage where both parties focus on the other rather than themselves being anything but great? If I focus on meeting my spouses desires and she mine - will not both our desires be met? Of course they will to a great extent and where there may be a shortfall, grace becomes easier to apply. But it takes both being willing to look past themselves to reach this state.
> 
> Your last statement is exactly what should happen and I’m sure your husband is blessed by it. I hope he thanks you often and reciprocates in kind and in deed in whatever needs you have.
> 
> No growth occurs in our comfort zone, so growth only happens when we accept vulnerability.


Thanks for that reply. 
Some may say well its easy for your husband not to look at porn because he can have sex when he wants it, but the fact is that he has never looked at porn and was this way long before he met me, (and all though his long first marriage when he was rejected for sex many times,) because he sees it as damaging and dangerous and also as a Christian, wrong. If my husband stopped wanting sex completely that gives me no excuse to watch porn, because to me its wrong no matter what the reason. I know that you get what I am saying. :smile2:

I know that we all like to make excuses for our bad behaviour.


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## 269370

peacem said:


> Why is it that guys never get hurt by women watching porn - quite the opposite, it is usually an arousing thought. And I have heard from a dear friend that gay men do not have any hang ups of their partners using porn - generally speaking.




Because I like to see a healthy, active and hungry and genuine sexual libido in a woman. I don’t always need to be the source of it so it’s porn that turns her on, I’m all for it.
Whereas many women seem to be threatened by porn because they feel it’s a more efficient replacement. Sometimes it is but in majority of cases, it isn’t even close. 
It stems from a double misunderstanding: the woman assumes that sex is just a physical release for a man which is why she thinks that porn can do it for him just as well. It’s wrong on both counts. 
Sex always connects me emotionally to my wife is never really just a physical experience.

As for gays being more understanding...somebody who can empathise and think similarly as their same sex partner will of course be more understanding. Because there won’t be any MISunderstanding about this whole subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Thanks for that reply.
> Some may say well its easy for your husband not to look at porn because he can have sex when he wants it, but the fact is that he has never looked at porn and was this way long before he met me, (and all though his long first marriage when he was rejected for sex many times,) because he sees it as damaging and dangerous and also as a Christian, wrong. If my husband stopped wanting sex completely that gives me no excuse to watch porn, because to me its wrong no matter what the reason. I know that you get what I am saying. :smile2:
> 
> I know that we all like to make excuses for our bad behaviour.



The day @Diana7 does a search on pornhub...I think I will be more shocked at this than if Jesus finally appeared before me to have a chat! 
I agree with the premise that bad behaviour doesn’t entitle the spouse to return the ‘favour’. It’s just that not many people consider masturbation with visual aids particularly bad behaviour.
Better than screwing a mistress.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## peacem

inmyprime said:


> Because I like to see a healthy, active and hungry and genuine sexual libido in a woman. I don’t always need to be the source of it so it’s porn that turns her on, I’m all for it.
> Whereas many women seem to be threatened by porn because they feel it’s a more efficient replacement. Sometimes it is but in majority of cases, it isn’t even close.
> It stems from a double misunderstanding: the woman assumes that sex is just a physical release for a man which is why she thinks that porn can do it for him just as well. It’s wrong on both counts.
> Sex always connects me emotionally to my wife is never really just a physical experience.
> 
> As for gays being more understanding...somebody who can empathise and think similarly as their same sex partner will of course be more understanding. Because there won’t be any MISunderstanding about this whole subject.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A wonderful explanation thank you :smile2:


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> The day @Diana7 does a search on pornhub...I think I will be more shocked at this than if Jesus finally appeared before me to have a chat!
> I agree with the premise that bad behaviour doesn’t entitle the spouse to return the ‘favour’. It’s just that not many people consider masturbation with visual aids particularly bad behaviour.
> Better than screwing a mistress.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One woman I used to know said that it would have been easier for her if her husband had cheated with one woman rather than the many hundreds he cheated with on porn. 
Its not a question of whether one is better than the other.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Because I like to see a healthy, active and hungry and genuine sexual libido in a woman. I don’t always need to be the source of it so it’s porn that turns her on, I’m all for it.
> Whereas many women seem to be threatened by porn because they feel it’s a more efficient replacement. Sometimes it is but in majority of cases, it isn’t even close.
> It stems from a double misunderstanding: the woman assumes that sex is just a physical release for a man which is why she thinks that porn can do it for him just as well. It’s wrong on both counts.
> Sex always connects me emotionally to my wife is never really just a physical experience.
> 
> As for gays being more understanding...somebody who can empathise and think similarly as their same sex partner will of course be more understanding. Because there won’t be any MISunderstanding about this whole subject.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can have that but direct it to your spouse and not porn. We cant know if gay men are more or less likely to watch porn.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> One woman I used to know said that it would have been easier for her if her husband had cheated with one woman rather than the many hundreds he cheated with on porn.
> Its not a question of whether one is better than the other.



But one IS better than the other. At least in the eyes of my spouse.
I don’t even know why I’m always defending this  I barely ever watch it. It’s really very very boring after a while. Sex with wife is never boring by comparison. But would sometimes be nice for it to be more often.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cknpro

I chased the rabbit of “its better than cheating.” Seems like rational justification at first. But, for me at least, it eventually leads to frustration, bitterness and resentment if you continue in it. I don’t think I’m alone in that process. 
And honestly, if it takes porn to get your engine started for sex with the spouse, there is a lot more than sex that needs attention. 

Someone mentioned pornography in ancient times. I’m going this summer to the Mediterranean area and hopefully visit Ephesus. My in -laws have been before. They took photos of the pornographic murals displayed in some wall. Turns out it was the entrance into a brothel - so it was like advertising.... seems not much has changed in the world. And it seems we as people don’t learn as much from history as we should. Where are those “great societies” now?

I know this - that after a considerable time away from it, I began seeing my wife differently. I began again to appreciate her shape and the general vision of her. As our relationship improved as my bitterness and guilt decreased, our sex improved. This takes time and effort. I went for a year without masturbation. I don’t hold to that completely now, but when I grow edgy and she’s not around, I have plenty of pleasant memories to focus mind on. And what was once a 2-4x a day thing is now a once or twice a month anomaly. It is truly a re-training of the brain, a redirection of neuro-pathways. Takes time, but is worth it.


----------



## Cletus

peacem said:


> Why is it that guys never get hurt by women watching porn - quite the opposite, it is usually an arousing thought. And I have heard from a dear friend that gay men do not have any hang ups of their partners using porn - generally speaking.


That's pretty much what Dan Savage says too. Guys just don't seem to suffer from the same loss of self-esteem when their partner views the stuff.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> One woman I used to know said that it would have been easier for her if her husband had cheated with one woman rather than the many hundreds he cheated with on porn.
> Its not a question of whether one is better than the other.


That is a pretty far-from-the-mean opinion.

Show of hands in the forum from those who believe the two transgressions are equivalent?


----------



## uhtred

Ideally yes, but only if your spouse is interested. 




Diana7 said:


> You can have that but direct it to your spouse and not porn. We cant know if gay men are more or less likely to watch porn.


----------



## Notself

Cletus said:


> That is a pretty far-from-the-mean opinion.
> 
> Show of hands in the forum from those who believe the two transgressions are equivalent?


Frankly, I find the suggestion of equivalence just plain weird. But if you're the type that believes "lust in your heart" will send you to Hell for eternity, I can understand why you might think that way (even though it's weird). Most of those folks think that all sins are equally bad, so looking at porn and, say, raping your 4-year-old stepdaughter are morally equivalent in their eyes. Weird indeed. (And this is how people like Roy Moore happen, btw.)


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> That is a pretty far-from-the-mean opinion.
> 
> Show of hands in the forum from those who believe the two transgressions are equivalent?


She was speaking as the wife of a man who used porn, for her it was worse. To me its cheating either way.


----------



## Diana7

cknpro said:


> I chased the rabbit of “its better than cheating.” Seems like rational justification at first. But, for me at least, it eventually leads to frustration, bitterness and resentment if you continue in it. I don’t think I’m alone in that process.
> And honestly, if it takes porn to get your engine started for sex with the spouse, there is a lot more than sex that needs attention.
> 
> Someone mentioned pornography in ancient times. I’m going this summer to the Mediterranean area and hopefully visit Ephesus. My in -laws have been before. They took photos of the pornographic murals displayed in some wall. Turns out it was the entrance into a brothel - so it was like advertising.... seems not much has changed in the world. And it seems we as people don’t learn as much from history as we should. Where are those “great societies” now?
> 
> I know this - that after a considerable time away from it, I began seeing my wife differently. I began again to appreciate her shape and the general vision of her. As our relationship improved as my bitterness and guilt decreased, our sex improved. This takes time and effort. I went for a year without masturbation. I don’t hold to that completely now, but when I grow edgy and she’s not around, I have plenty of pleasant memories to focus mind on. And what was once a 2-4x a day thing is now a once or twice a month anomaly. It is truly a re-training of the brain, a redirection of neuro-pathways. Takes time, but is worth it.


Its great to hear your story, that things improved so much once you gave up porn. 

The idea of well its better than cheating is just an attempt to justify porn use, as if no one can stop porn with out being 'forced' to cheat.


----------



## Diana7

Notself said:


> Frankly, I find the suggestion of equivalence just plain weird. But if you're the type that believes "lust in your heart" will send you to Hell for eternity, I can understand why you might think that way (even though it's weird). Most of those folks think that all sins are equally bad, so looking at porn and, say, raping your 4-year-old stepdaughter are morally equivalent in their eyes. Weird indeed. (And this is how people like Roy Moore happen, btw.)



You have a strange idea of what being a Christian is. We don't believe that lusting in the heart will send us to hell, but we do know that porn use is bad for us and our marriage. We know that God is very wise and that whatever He advises is always for our own good and for the good of those around us. No we don't think that all sin is the same in its effects and consequences, but for many women their husbands porn use is cheating with multiple women and very disrespectful and unloving towards them.


----------



## LeananSidhe

I hate porn...but that’s kind of a lie. I don’t hate porn, I just hate when my husband looks at porn. I’m a hypocrite. 

I just wrote out a huge explanation but then deleted it because it was a novel.


----------



## turnera

Translation: Why my H looks at porn, I feel like I am not enough for him.

Now, we don't know WHY you feel that way - he could be a not so great husband, you could have severe insecurity, could be something else, but it's a vital conversation to have.


----------



## Diana7

turnera said:


> Translation: Why my H looks at porn, I feel like I am not enough for him.
> 
> Now, we don't know WHY you feel that way - he could be a not so great husband, you could have severe insecurity, could be something else, but it's a vital conversation to have.


For us and for others I know its not about being insecure but about treating each other with love and respect.
Actually its because I have self respect that I wouldn't marry a man who did it.


----------



## toblerone

CatholicDad said:


> Men can live without porn and masturbation. It takes only a lot of *****


fixed that for you!



inmyprime said:


> But just a general and useless observation to any women out there: if you want to keep your husband and not have them look at porn (too much), have regular enthusiastic sex with them. It will work miracles!


oops I guess someone already made the point


----------



## Steve1000

Diana7 said:


> We know that God is very wise and that whatever He advises is always for our own good and for the good of those around us.


I'm not sure about the ban on shellfish. I really like shrimp. And then there's this:

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand.


----------



## uhtred

Is he ignoring you and turning to porn instead? 



LeananSidhe said:


> I hate porn...but that’s kind of a lie. I don’t hate porn, I just hate when my husband looks at porn. I’m a hypocrite.
> 
> I just wrote out a huge explanation but then deleted it because it was a novel.


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Steve1000 said:


> I'm not sure about the ban on shellfish. *I really like shrimp*.
> You're riding a shrimp boat straight to Hell my friend.
> 
> When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, *then you shall cut off her hand*.
> How is she supposed to do the dishes and laundry if I keep cutting off her hands???


----------



## Steve1000

Maxwedge 413 said:


> How is she supposed to do the dishes and laundry if I keep cutting off her hands???


Serves you right for getting into so many fights with other men.


----------



## LeananSidhe

uhtred said:


> Is he ignoring you and turning to porn instead?
> 
> 
> 
> LeananSidhe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate porn...but that’s kind of a lie. I don’t hate porn, I just hate when my husband looks at porn. I’m a hypocrite.
> 
> I just wrote out a huge explanation but then deleted it because it was a novel.
Click to expand...

It’s complicated. He has a hard time doing anything in moderation. He used to watch porn every day as a teenager and when he became sexually active he could not orgasm through intercourse (or anything other than his own hand). When him and I started having sex he was able to orgasm sometimes in certain positions. Eventually he was able to do it every which way. After we got married we’d occasionally watch porn together...but then he started watching it more and more by himself and leaving me alone. I was always up for sex back then so it hurt. I think it was just a habit for him. It caused lots of fights and also caused him to start having problems reaching orgasm again with me...which was a pretty big insult and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league. 

Anyway, I doubt he ever stopped but did cut back. Then around 3 years ago our kids were sick and slept with me for a few nights while he slept on the couch. He started watching porn again... When the kids were well again and I wanted him back in bed he was “being nice” and telling them that they could sleep with mommy. When I finally got him back in bed surprise he couldn’t orgasm. Another huge fight. Worked it out and then had sex every night for a week (and ended up pregnant again). 

Now if he ever has a problem reaching orgasm (super rare) it instantly causes me to get angry. I’m working on my reaction because I know it doesn’t always mean porn but it’s tough. I have porn blocked on his phone currently but I feel really bad about that because I don’t want to treat him like a child. He says he doesn’t mind and whatever makes me feel better is ok with him but still...

We’ve had sex 10 times in the last 7 days. Honestly, I watch porn. I think it would be fun to watch it occasionally with a partner. I think the idea of stumbling upon someone’s porn search terms and finding their kinks sounds hot... but it’s been ruined for me because I can’t trust that it won’t become an issue again. 

He’s a super awesome husband and lover when he’s not “on the porn”.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Great little meme there. Reminds me of my AF days when our young Airmen would get distressed after receiving orders to report for duty to one of the bases in North Dakota.

We'd say, "Don't worry, you're gonna' love it. There's a pretty girl behind every tree."


----------



## Maxwedge 413

Steve1000 said:


> Serves you right for getting into so many fights with other men.


I need to fight with smaller men, so _their_ wives will grab _me_.:grin2:


----------



## notmyrealname4

uhtred said:


> Why is masturbating to porn different than masturbating to a fantasy?
> 
> *If the porn were computer generated images, not real women would it be OK?*



Not ideal; but about 90% better.

Two [or more] real people do not have to perform the most intimate of bodily acts with a complete stranger. Thereby exposing themselves to every known STI. Condoms are typically not used in pornography.

No real woman needs to get an abortion if her BC fails and she gets pregnant.

Two [or more] real people don't go through the emotional battery of giving themselves sexually to a complete stranger. There are those that claim there is no emotional component to pornography performances. I think there is always an emotional component in sex. Especially for women. And a large number of these women take drugs to be able to perform these acts on cue; with strangers, in front of a camera crew.

Also, no real women {or gay men}, need to be stitched up, especially rectally/anally after suffering severe trauma to those areas of their anatomy.


So yes, CGI or cartoon or anime would be much, much better.

Of course violence, disrespect and perversion (bestiality, pedophilia) can still be depicted with "pretend" images; so it's not 100% better.

But the fact that no human being was directly used and consumed to create CGI porn is a vast improvement.


----------



## notmyrealname4

Diana7 said:


> I find it interesting that you think that men cant masturbate without porn. Also that men who don't look at porn dont have sex or masturbate. They do, they just don't use porn in and for either of those things.





inmyprime said:


> We can of course. It just takes forever...




Which means that you don't have that much sexual tension built up.

So, you don't really need porn or even need to have an orgasm.

It's your decision to force a wank, when you don't really feel all that horny. 

But your statement does tend to prove that people don't "need" porn. They choose to use porn for reasons other than aiding physical sexual release.


----------



## notmyrealname4

Diana7 said:


> Muslims are allowed to have more than one wife that's true, but its not common in other cultures.* I often wonder what happens to all the men who cant find a wife due to other man having 2 or 3. *




I would say that's why the women have to wear burkas. The large percentage of men who do not have a wife can't stand the sight of what they will never have. So, it's the woman's job to not "tempt" him.

Monogamy is actually better for men. Each man gets a wife.

In polygamy, many men do not.

In polygamy, women get a share of a husband; and probably focus most of their love and devotion on their children.


----------



## EllisRedding

For those who are dead set against porn in marriage, are you against any form of solo masturbation or is it just specific to porn?


----------



## uhtred

I think this often gets missed in porn discussions: its effect on people varies a LOT. Its sort of like alcohol, someone married to an alcoholic is likely to have a very different attitude than someone who's spouse sometimes has a glass of wine with dinner.

To me the key is whether the porn use is *directly* affecting the relationship. Here by "directly" I mean by example: reduced interest in sex, pressure for specific sex acts from porn etc. I don't include someone just feeling insecure because of their partner watching.

In your case, there is a direct and serious effect so I completely support your objection to porn in your marriage. 






LeananSidhe said:


> It’s complicated. He has a hard time doing anything in moderation. He used to watch porn every day as a teenager and when he became sexually active he could not orgasm through intercourse (or anything other than his own hand). When him and I started having sex he was able to orgasm sometimes in certain positions. Eventually he was able to do it every which way. After we got married we’d occasionally watch porn together...but then he started watching it more and more by himself and leaving me alone. I was always up for sex back then so it hurt. I think it was just a habit for him. It caused lots of fights and also caused him to start having problems reaching orgasm again with me...which was a pretty big insult and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league.
> 
> Anyway, I doubt he ever stopped but did cut back. Then around 3 years ago our kids were sick and slept with me for a few nights while he slept on the couch. He started watching porn again... When the kids were well again and I wanted him back in bed he was “being nice” and telling them that they could sleep with mommy. When I finally got him back in bed surprise he couldn’t orgasm. Another huge fight. Worked it out and then had sex every night for a week (and ended up pregnant again).
> 
> Now if he ever has a problem reaching orgasm (super rare) it instantly causes me to get angry. I’m working on my reaction because I know it doesn’t always mean porn but it’s tough. I have porn blocked on his phone currently but I feel really bad about that because I don’t want to treat him like a child. He says he doesn’t mind and whatever makes me feel better is ok with him but still...
> 
> We’ve had sex 10 times in the last 7 days. Honestly, I watch porn. I think it would be fun to watch it occasionally with a partner. I think the idea of stumbling upon someone’s porn search terms and finding their kinks sounds hot... but it’s been ruined for me because I can’t trust that it won’t become an issue again.
> 
> He’s a super awesome husband and lover when he’s not “on the porn”.


----------



## Steve1000

LeananSidhe said:


> It’s complicated. He has a hard time doing anything in moderation. He used to watch porn every day as a teenager and when he became sexually active he could not orgasm through intercourse (or anything other than his own hand). When him and I started having sex he was able to orgasm sometimes in certain positions. Eventually he was able to do it every which way. After we got married we’d occasionally watch porn together...but then he started watching it more and more by himself and leaving me alone. I was always up for sex back then so it hurt. I think it was just a habit for him. It caused lots of fights and also caused him to start having problems reaching orgasm again with me...which was a pretty big insult and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league.
> 
> Anyway, I doubt he ever stopped but did cut back. Then around 3 years ago our kids were sick and slept with me for a few nights while he slept on the couch. He started watching porn again... When the kids were well again and I wanted him back in bed he was “being nice” and telling them that they could sleep with mommy. When I finally got him back in bed surprise he couldn’t orgasm. Another huge fight. Worked it out and then had sex every night for a week (and ended up pregnant again).
> 
> Now if he ever has a problem reaching orgasm (super rare) it instantly causes me to get angry. I’m working on my reaction because I know it doesn’t always mean porn but it’s tough. I have porn blocked on his phone currently but I feel really bad about that because I don’t want to treat him like a child. He says he doesn’t mind and whatever makes me feel better is ok with him but still...
> 
> We’ve had sex 10 times in the last 7 days. Honestly, I watch porn. I think it would be fun to watch it occasionally with a partner. I think the idea of stumbling upon someone’s porn search terms and finding their kinks sounds hot... but it’s been ruined for me because I can’t trust that it won’t become an issue again.
> 
> He’s a super awesome husband and lover when he’s not “on the porn”.


For what it's worth, if I had your personal experience, I'd hate porn too. I can't imagine the concept of being addicted to porn, but I acknowledge that this type of addiction does seem to exist.


----------



## notmyrealname4

EllisRedding said:


> For those who are dead set against porn in marriage, are you against any form of solo masturbation or is it just specific to porn?




It's more specific to porn. Definitely.

Masturbation is just release of sexual tension. Ultimately, though, a very lonely, unfulfilling activity.

Yes, people can, and usually do fantasize with masturbation. But you don't have to. You can learn a lot about your body by just using stimulation to find out what you like.

If you *can't* masturbate without pornography, you don't have that much tension built up. Or, you're habituated to pornography, and can't physically function without it. {Not, YOU you, EllisRedding, I mean "you" in general}


----------



## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> It's more specific to porn. Definitely.
> 
> Masturbation is just release of sexual tension. Ultimately, though, a very lonely, unfulfilling activity.
> 
> Yes, people can, and usually do fantasize with masturbation. But you don't have to. You can learn a lot about your body by just using stimulation to find out what you like.
> 
> If you *can't* masturbate without pornography, you don't have that much tension built up. Or, you're habituated to pornography, and can't physically function without it. {Not, YOU you, EllisRedding, I mean "you" in general}


Wait, why are you talking about my masturbation habits :grin2:

I am more in the frame of mind that I don't have a problem with as long as the 2 criteria are met:

1) It does not in any way impact your sexual relationship with your SO (i.e. you are not turning down sex, showing lack of interest, etc.. b/c you just spanked it to Forest Hump earlier in the day)
2) Your SO does not have an objection to

However, where things get grey, what if your SO withholds sex from you, or there is a sexual mismatch that your SO is unwilling to work on?


----------



## 269370

LeananSidhe said:


> It’s complicated. He has a hard time doing anything in moderation. He used to watch porn every day as a teenager and when he became sexually active he could not orgasm through intercourse (or anything other than his own hand). When him and I started having sex he was able to orgasm sometimes in certain positions. Eventually he was able to do it every which way. After we got married we’d occasionally watch porn together...but then he started watching it more and more by himself and leaving me alone. I was always up for sex back then so it hurt. I think it was just a habit for him. It caused lots of fights and also caused him to start having problems reaching orgasm again with me...which was a pretty big insult and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league.
> 
> Anyway, I doubt he ever stopped but did cut back. Then around 3 years ago our kids were sick and slept with me for a few nights while he slept on the couch. He started watching porn again... When the kids were well again and I wanted him back in bed he was “being nice” and telling them that they could sleep with mommy. When I finally got him back in bed surprise he couldn’t orgasm. Another huge fight. Worked it out and then had sex every night for a week (and ended up pregnant again).
> 
> Now if he ever has a problem reaching orgasm (super rare) it instantly causes me to get angry. I’m working on my reaction because I know it doesn’t always mean porn but it’s tough. I have porn blocked on his phone currently but I feel really bad about that because I don’t want to treat him like a child. He says he doesn’t mind and whatever makes me feel better is ok with him but still...
> 
> We’ve had sex 10 times in the last 7 days. Honestly, I watch porn. I think it would be fun to watch it occasionally with a partner. I think the idea of stumbling upon someone’s porn search terms and finding their kinks sounds hot... but it’s been ruined for me because I can’t trust that it won’t become an issue again.
> 
> He’s a super awesome husband and lover when he’s not “on the porn”.



Sex 10 times in 7 days...I think most guys would have difficulty coming ‘demand’ with such frequency, with or without porn...

I don’t always come from sex. Even if we haven’t slept together for a couple of days it sometimes happens. I trained myself to be so focused on not being too early and being ‘rhythmically perfect’, with added acceleration etc, to make sure she orgasms that I sometimes forget to ‘enjoy’ it as much myself. She does finish me afterwards but sex is not always a guarantee for me.

“and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league. “

Who’s ‘everyone’?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

notmyrealname4 said:


> Which means that you don't have that much sexual tension built up.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you don't really need porn or even need to have an orgasm.
> 
> 
> 
> It's your decision to force a wank, when you don't really feel all that horny.
> 
> 
> 
> But your statement does tend to prove that people don't "need" porn. They choose to use porn for reasons other than aiding physical sexual release.



Nope. That totally does not follow.
Also I never said anyone ‘needs’ porn. Just as no one needs to read ‘50 shades of awful’.
What no one needs is taking offence at something not worth getting offended about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> I think this often gets missed in porn discussions: its effect on people varies a LOT. Its sort of like alcohol, someone married to an alcoholic is likely to have a very different attitude than someone who's spouse sometimes has a glass of wine with dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> To me the key is whether the porn use is *directly* affecting the relationship. Here by "directly" I mean by example: reduced interest in sex, pressure for specific sex acts from porn etc. I don't include someone just feeling insecure because of their partner watching.
> 
> 
> 
> In your case, there is a direct and serious effect so I completely support your objection to porn in your marriage.




It’s the connection that she made though. It doesn’t necessarily mean there is an actual connection...Or that the connection is at least so clear cut. Maybe if she didn’t ‘force’ sex onto him 10 times in a week (poor husband ), perhaps he wouldn’t find it so hard to orgasm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LeananSidhe

inmyprime said:


> LeananSidhe said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s complicated. He has a hard time doing anything in moderation. He used to watch porn every day as a teenager and when he became sexually active he could not orgasm through intercourse (or anything other than his own hand). When him and I started having sex he was able to orgasm sometimes in certain positions. Eventually he was able to do it every which way. After we got married we’d occasionally watch porn together...but then he started watching it more and more by himself and leaving me alone. I was always up for sex back then so it hurt. I think it was just a habit for him. It caused lots of fights and also caused him to start having problems reaching orgasm again with me...which was a pretty big insult and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league.
> 
> Anyway, I doubt he ever stopped but did cut back. Then around 3 years ago our kids were sick and slept with me for a few nights while he slept on the couch. He started watching porn again... When the kids were well again and I wanted him back in bed he was “being nice” and telling them that they could sleep with mommy. When I finally got him back in bed surprise he couldn’t orgasm. Another huge fight. Worked it out and then had sex every night for a week (and ended up pregnant again).
> 
> Now if he ever has a problem reaching orgasm (super rare) it instantly causes me to get angry. I’m working on my reaction because I know it doesn’t always mean porn but it’s tough. I have porn blocked on his phone currently but I feel really bad about that because I don’t want to treat him like a child. He says he doesn’t mind and whatever makes me feel better is ok with him but still...
> 
> We’ve had sex 10 times in the last 7 days. Honestly, I watch porn. I think it would be fun to watch it occasionally with a partner. I think the idea of stumbling upon someone’s porn search terms and finding their kinks sounds hot... but it’s been ruined for me because I can’t trust that it won’t become an issue again.
> 
> He’s a super awesome husband and lover when he’s not “on the porn”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sex 10 times in 7 days...I think most guys would have difficulty coming ‘demand’ with such frequency, with or without porn...
> 
> I don’t always come from sex. Even if we haven’t slept together for a couple of days it sometimes happens. I trained myself to be so focused on not being too early and being ‘rhythmically perfect’, with added acceleration etc, to make sure she orgasms that I sometimes forget to ‘enjoy’ it as much myself. She does finish me afterwards but sex is not always a guarantee for me.
> 
> “and honestly caused some resentment from me since everyone joked that I was out of his league. “
> 
> Who’s ‘everyone’?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He does well. Honestly it seems like the more we have sex, the more he wants sex and reaches orgasm pretty easy. Oddly enough, the last 2 times that he’s had problems coming from intercourse were the first times after we had a dry spell. Which is one of the reasons I always instantly think it’s porn (and it has been except for the last time). 

“Everyone” was just the people we knew. His friends, my friends. Him. My friends didn’t understand why I liked him and thought I could do better and his friends thought he was pretty lucky. Everyone thought we were a mismatched couple when we first got together. 
We actually met over the phone and talked for several weeks before meeting (we were 17 and he lived in another town). Admittedly, I was not attracted to him when I first met him....but he eventually won me over and I fell head over heels. 
The only reason I mentioned it was because at the time I felt upset when someone would joke about it and I wanted to scream “HE DOESN’T EVEN WANT TO **** ME!”


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## 269370

LeananSidhe said:


> He does well. Honestly it seems like the more we have sex, the more he wants sex and reaches orgasm pretty easy. Oddly enough, the last 2 times that he’s had problems coming from intercourse were the first times after we had a dry spell. Which is one of the reasons I always instantly think it’s porn (and it has been except for the last time).
> 
> “Everyone” was just the people we knew. His friends, my friends. Him. My friends didn’t understand why I liked him and thought I could do better and his friends thought he was pretty lucky. Everyone thought we were a mismatched couple when we first got together.
> We actually met over the phone and talked for several weeks before meeting (we were 17 and he lived in another town). Admittedly, I was not attracted to him when I first met him....but he eventually won me over and I fell head over heels.


That’s weird how women can do that. (Become attracted later on). It doesn’t work like that with men somehow at all, as far as I know. (Or rarely).



LeananSidhe said:


> The only reason I mentioned it was because at the time I felt upset when someone would joke about it and I wanted to scream “HE DOESN’T EVEN WANT TO **** ME!”



But he does though; just because there isn’t always proof in the form of semen, doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you.
Sounds like he’s a ‘man of habits’.

Does he express desire to have sex with you, if you do t come onto him for, say, a week?
Then again, it is often easier to do a quick search than to ask an unwilling wife for sex (which you are not).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LeananSidhe

inmyprime said:


> LeananSidhe said:
> 
> 
> 
> He does well. Honestly it seems like the more we have sex, the more he wants sex and reaches orgasm pretty easy. Oddly enough, the last 2 times that he’s had problems coming from intercourse were the first times after we had a dry spell. Which is one of the reasons I always instantly think it’s porn (and it has been except for the last time).
> 
> “Everyone” was just the people we knew. His friends, my friends. Him. My friends didn’t understand why I liked him and thought I could do better and his friends thought he was pretty lucky. Everyone thought we were a mismatched couple when we first got together.
> We actually met over the phone and talked for several weeks before meeting (we were 17 and he lived in another town). Admittedly, I was not attracted to him when I first met him....but he eventually won me over and I fell head over heels.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s weird how women can do that. (Become attracted later on). It doesn’t work like that with men somehow at all, as far as I know. (Or rarely).
> 
> 
> 
> LeananSidhe said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason I mentioned it was because at the time I felt upset when someone would joke about it and I wanted to scream “HE DOESN’T EVEN WANT TO **** ME!”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But he does though; just because there isn’t always proof in the form of semen, doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you.
> Sounds like he’s a ‘man of habits’.
> 
> Does he express desire to have sex with you, if you do t come onto him for, say, a week?
> Then again, it is often easier to do a quick search than to ask an unwilling wife for sex (which you are not).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He’s usually the instigator of sex. He’s very attracted to me. He’s groping me all the time and still very interested when I get undressed. He absolutely loves sex with me and very rarely (like maybe once a year) has problems orgasming now. 

Those feelings of resentment were from 15 years ago when I was a newlywed 19 year old wondering why my husband wanted to jerk off to porn instead of have sex with me. I now realize that it had nothing to do with me but at the time I was young and got my feelings hurt. 

I do feel like he unintentionally pulls away from me when he watches porn. Maybe out of laziness? I totally understand that it’s an easy, quick release and there have been times when I just wanted to rub one out myself instead of having sex...but when he starts it’s like he loses interest in sex. He is normally all over me but then he’ll start masturbating to porn and suddenly he stops initiating sex. He starts staying up late instead of coming to bed with me like normal. He will be extremely sweet and loving like normal but the sex will stop. It’s happened when I was HD and LD. 
I try to be more understanding now but honestly it still hurts my feelings to think about.


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## 269370

LeananSidhe said:


> He’s usually the instigator of sex. He’s very attracted to me. He’s groping me all the time and still very interested when I get undressed. He absolutely loves sex with me and very rarely (like maybe once a year) has problems orgasming now.
> 
> Those feelings of resentment were from 15 years ago when I was a newlywed 19 year old wondering why my husband wanted to jerk off to porn instead of have sex with me. I now realize that it had nothing to do with me but at the time I was young and got my feelings hurt.
> 
> I do feel like he unintentionally pulls away from me when he watches porn. Maybe out of laziness? I totally understand that it’s an easy, quick release and there have been times when I just wanted to rub one out myself instead of having sex...but when he starts it’s like he loses interest in sex. He is normally all over me but then he’ll start masturbating to porn and suddenly he stops initiating sex. He starts staying up late instead of coming to bed with me like normal. He will be extremely sweet and loving like normal but the sex will stop. It’s happened when I was HD and LD.
> I try to be more understanding now but honestly it still hurts my feelings to think about.



If you don’t mind me asking: if it was all such a long time ago, why is it all coming out now? Why the guilt/insecurity now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cknpro

EllisRedding said:


> For those who are dead set against porn in marriage, are you against any form of solo masturbation or is it just specific to porn?



I can only speak for myself as an ex-addict: 
Solo masturbation was/is a gateway drug - much of the time, but not always. IMO it is always best to focus ALL of your sexual energy toward and with your spouse. If your doing it alone, without porn, you are still treading in rough water. You should question seriously the reason your doing it. 
“Could I be sexual with my spouse instead” is the first question to ask. If not, then why not? Is there going to be a time soon when we could be together? If so, why do I think I can’t wait? 
Second series of questions I ask myself is:
“What am I trying to fill, sooth, relieve, distract from with the activity? Is there an alternate method to achieve that goal instead of solo M? 
Ultimately, what is it I REALLY want or think I need?

If it is just release for release sake - says its been several days - and it can be accomplished without outside influences or guilt because there is no spousal availability otherwise, then so be it - no worries. If it’s been several days, it won’t take anything but a good memory anyway. 

So no, I’m not against it solo, but I have my own criteria. What I have found is when I ignore those criteria, I ALWAYS feel worse afterwards than before and ALWAYS wish I had waited.


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## Diana7

EllisRedding said:


> For those who are dead set against porn in marriage, are you against any form of solo masturbation or is it just specific to porn?


I am ok with that, especially if one spouse is away or perhaps unwell for a time.


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> Masturbation is just release of sexual tension. Ultimately, though, a very lonely, unfulfilling activity.
> 
> Yes, people can, and usually do fantasize with masturbation. But you don't have to. You can learn a lot about your body by just using stimulation to find out what you like.
> 
> If you *can't* masturbate without pornography, you don't have that much tension built up. Or, you're habituated to pornography, and can't physically function without it. {Not, YOU you, EllisRedding, I mean "you" in general}


Just to add to your post, maybe 20 years ago when I was a walking erection I could masturbate looking at a lampshade. As I enter my more "advanced" years though, there has been times where I felt like I needed a release, but mentally I was just too distracted or couldn't keep focused. In those cases, visual stimulation solved that problem.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

My view is that its only a problem if spouse (or SO) is choosing porn over you. Then its a problem. But say, you are in the mood and spouse isn't (as happens A LOT in marriages) then why shouldn't you have the option to excuse yourself to take care of business? Some people can't do it without the help of visual stimulation (me).


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## LeananSidhe

inmyprime said:


> LeananSidhe said:
> 
> 
> 
> He’s usually the instigator of sex. He’s very attracted to me. He’s groping me all the time and still very interested when I get undressed. He absolutely loves sex with me and very rarely (like maybe once a year) has problems orgasming now.
> 
> Those feelings of resentment were from 15 years ago when I was a newlywed 19 year old wondering why my husband wanted to jerk off to porn instead of have sex with me. I now realize that it had nothing to do with me but at the time I was young and got my feelings hurt.
> 
> I do feel like he unintentionally pulls away from me when he watches porn. Maybe out of laziness? I totally understand that it’s an easy, quick release and there have been times when I just wanted to rub one out myself instead of having sex...but when he starts it’s like he loses interest in sex. He is normally all over me but then he’ll start masturbating to porn and suddenly he stops initiating sex. He starts staying up late instead of coming to bed with me like normal. He will be extremely sweet and loving like normal but the sex will stop. It’s happened when I was HD and LD.
> I try to be more understanding now but honestly it still hurts my feelings to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don’t mind me asking: if it was all such a long time ago, why is it all coming out now? Why the guilt/insecurity now?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don’t think anything is really coming out now. I was just trying to explain why I don’t hate porn but I hate my husband watching porn. 
So the big issues with the resentment towards him for choosing porn over me (in my mind) were 15(ish) years ago. The last time that porn caused us problems in the bedroom (him being less interested in sex and not being able to orgasm) was about 3 years ago. To be fair to him, I was LD during that time and it was easier for him to look at porn every night than try his luck with me. The reason it caused problems is because he pulled away physically, not just sexually. 
The times were he can’t orgasm now are maybe once a year or so. Super Bowl Sunday was the last time and it was not due to porn use.


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## AVR1962

Andy1001 said:


> Since I first started lurking on tam there are two things that I genuinely can't understand and one of them is why would any man prefer to watch porn or masturbste than have sex with a willing partner.


A passive-aggressive person will go to great lengths to keep their spouse punished and this is one way. There is also some who have a HUGE fear of rejection, so much so that they NEVER feel comfortable even in marriage. I am the female partner of a man I was with for 27 years and it was this way from the very beginning of our relationship. If you cannot understand it , it shows it is not your issue. When I have talked to friends they have not understood. I think for the most part this is not so common. I was married previously and my ex had no issues like this. I am now dating again and can say I have not experienced this in the relationship i am currently in and very thankful!


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