# My husband has ZERO social skills - I'm becoming resentful



## creativecat

I am 30 years old and I have only been married to my husband for only 1 & 1/2 years and have lived with him for 2 & 1/2 years. At first, our relationship was phenomenal. I hadn't felt the way I felt for him for ANYONE and it was obvious he and I were so compatible in so many ways. I had an incredible respect for him - I mean, I REALLY looked up to him in a lot of ways and was proud of his achievements.

Now, I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck! I've been slowly "falling out of love" with him for the past year or more. The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in but I never bring my friends back to my apartment because my husband has no idea how to talk to them! It is absolutely embarrassing and I RESENT him for it. I feel like I'm living with a child a lot of the time because he's so innocent in so many ways and it gets on my nerves! I want him to be able to talk to people around us and really engage but he just doesn't seem like he can do that. Is he waiting for approval or something? Is he scared? I don't know - but I DO know he's told me several times that he really is outgoing and personable when he gets around the "right crowd". So, when he's around MY friends and MY family they are the wrong crowd? I am starting to think he simply doesn't have social skills and I am SO scared that it is going to be a huge problem in this marriage. I don't think I noticed how bad he was socially until later on in the relationship (and that is when I started to lose romantic feelings for him).

I'm so ANGRY with him but it's absolutely ruining my marriage and I don't know what to do about it. I am not very nice to him anymore. Everything about his irritates me. If he BREATHES and I can hear it I am SUPREMELY annoyed and need to walk out of the room. 

What can I do to fix this? I feel like what I'm asking for is such a tall order but I already know that if I can't move on from this or get him to change his attitude around people, I am going to leave him.


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## Cletus

YOU'RE unhappy with your husband's social skills. YOU'RE mad at YOURSELF for having missed the signs before you got married. YOU want your husband to change. YOU cannot stand to be in the same room with him any longer.

So who really has the problem here?


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## Dude007

Don't take this out on him. Sit him down and have a long conversation with him. If you are tempted to leave him, tell him now.


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## creativecat

I have the problem. So what I'm really trying to do here is ask for advice, not have someone tell me that I have a problem.


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## EllisRedding

I don't quite understand, you can't force him to be more social. For some people it just comes naturally but for others it is actually painful.

Also, who cares if your husband doesn't know how to talk to your friends, they are your friends and not his. Unless he is walking around doing naked lunges in front of them just enjoy your time with your friends and let him do his thing.

If I am being honest, by the tone (i.e. anger) of your OP, it sounds like you guys are just not a match and going your separate ways is the best option.


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## sapientia

Wow. It's SO TOUGH when people fail to meet your expectations, isn't it? I mean, you sound like a super, awesome person. Flawless. You DESERVE so much better.

I hope your next husband is willing to change for you. Its clear this one won't. I would suggest you make it a criteria when you are dating. This will save you both a lot of angst.

Good luck. Really.


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## Cletus

creativecat said:


> I have the problem. So what I'm really trying to do here is ask for advice, not have someone tell me that I have a problem.


Great. It's not clear that you recognize that from the opening salvo.

So how do you do a better job of accepting someone for what they are instead of what they are not that you wish them to be? Does he still make you happy in the same ways he did before you got married? Has he materially changed? If not, then why has something that wasn't important then now become the center of your thinking about your relationship?


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## Satya

You lived with him 2.5 years before marriage or 2.5 years total? 

Whether 2.5 or 1.5 years living together, how could you not have been aware of his lack of social contacts?


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## happy as a clam

Ok, if his BREATHING is bothering you, you need to cut him loose. This man doesn't stand a chance.

It's obvious you two are incompatible.


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## karole

Do you have a "special friend" that does meet all your social qualifications?


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## fat_moe

I think you need to first just calm down. Every person is dialed differently. You're never going to find a person that behaves and has the exact same style as you want in all situations.

You need to focus on the things you do have in common. My father hates traveling and hates dining out. He likes to run and tend to the house. My mother absolutely loves to travel. It's her favorite subject. My mom spent years trying to force him to come on trips with us and to try new restaurants. You can't change someone and people get hostile when you try to force them into doing something. I think many women do this to their husbands. Even though it is good-natured, Guys want to do their own thing sometimes.

My parents are still happily married and are now in their sixties. When my mom wants to travel my sister and I go with her. My dad says, "Have a great time!" and does his thing at home. It's become a running joke in our family how much my mom tried to "push" my dad into things, often in a coyly indirect manner. They've resolved to focus on the things that they both enjoy, like going for walks, discussing the news, or seeing a live band.

Go, have your friends time and let your husband do what he is comfortable with. Find other interests that you can share. You're blowing up the social aspect to where it seems like this huge ordeal when it isn't really.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
Have you hung out with your husband's "crowd". See how he interacts with them. Maybe it will help you find social situations where he is more comfortable.


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## creativecat

@fat_moe;

That was really great advice. I appreciate it very much. I guess I have just become so angry with him. I forget that in the beginning of our marriage we were very poor so it was just us against the world in a way. Now we have a little more money, jobs, etc, and I am starting to want more out of life. That is why I am just now seeing that he doesn't have the social skills I'd like him to. 

I know I am being very selfish so I'm not trying to change him, I am just trying to get advice to cope with ME. I guess the answer is to take baby steps in the direction of letting go and maybe that will ease my resentment? Maybe the resentment is really with me?


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## Satya

Seeing an IC to learn more about yourself and how you're processing all of this would be my recommended start.


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## happy as a clam

creativecat said:


> Maybe the resentment is really with me?


Well, since you asked... Yes. I think you are angry at yourself for choosing this person. You are angry that you are tied down to someone you are no longer attracted to, that you are now resentful of, and you feel that he is holding you back in some way.

My best advice would be to schedule some counseling for yourself (NOT marriage counseling, but individual counseling). Then you can sort through your OWN issues before you even begin to tackle anything concerning him or your marriage. After some introspection you will be better able to determine what it is you actually want. A marriage with him? Divorce? A different partner?

Btw, have you met someone who you wish your husband could be more like? I'm not suggesting you're having an affair, but are you comparing your husband to other men, or one man in particular? If so, that is a huge red flag and your marriage is in a very precarious spot.


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## creativecat

@richardsharpe

I'm being very unreasonable and I understand that. I think the main problem is me because I become very embarrassed when family and friends start to wonder what's wrong with him. I hate explaining why he's like the way he is - I hardly understand it. It is definitely a social anxiety rather than a hanging out with a certain "crowd" and I think that's where my anger comes from. I want to help him but he won't let me.

I can tell he's depressed and there is NOTHING I can do about it...


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## Bam-bam

creativecat said:


> I am 30 years old and I have only been married to my husband for only 1 & 1/2 years and have lived with him for 2 & 1/2 years. At first, our relationship was phenomenal. I hadn't felt the way I felt for him for ANYONE and it was obvious he and I were so compatible in so many ways. I had an incredible respect for him - I mean, I REALLY looked up to him in a lot of ways and was proud of his achievements.
> 
> Now, I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck! I've been slowly "falling out of love" with him for the past year or more. The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in but I never bring my friends back to my apartment because my husband has no idea how to talk to them! It is absolutely embarrassing and I RESENT him for it. I feel like I'm living with a child a lot of the time because he's so innocent in so many ways and it gets on my nerves! I want him to be able to talk to people around us and really engage but he just doesn't seem like he can do that. Is he waiting for approval or something? Is he scared? I don't know - but I DO know he's told me several times that he really is outgoing and personable when he gets around the "right crowd". So, when he's around MY friends and MY family they are the wrong crowd? I am starting to think he simply doesn't have social skills and I am SO scared that it is going to be a huge problem in this marriage. I don't think I noticed how bad he was socially until later on in the relationship (and that is when I started to lose romantic feelings for him).
> 
> I'm so ANGRY with him but it's absolutely ruining my marriage and I don't know what to do about it. I am not very nice to him anymore. Everything about his irritates me. If he BREATHES and I can hear it I am SUPREMELY annoyed and need to walk out of the room.
> 
> What can I do to fix this? I feel like what I'm asking for is such a tall order but I already know that if I can't move on from this or get him to change his attitude around people, I am going to leave him.


It sounds like you married an introvert and that you are more extroverted. I am an extreme introvert and I will tell you that it is not likely that he will change. If he tries to be more outgoing it may possibly make him miserable.

Us Introverts are regularly misunderstood. I suggest learning about introversion. I suggest Susan Cain's book "quiet". Its meant for introverted people but extroverted people that have introverts in their life can learn a lot to help get some ideas on how to approach the differences.

In my opinion, he is simply being him. He can improve his social skills but it's not likely that he can become extremely social. Of course though, I'm just a stranger on the internet and I haven't met the guy, but this is my knee jerk reaction from my personal experiences. So you may take it with a grain of salt.

Thing is, if he is introverted, and you view it as a flaw or like something that needs corrected, any attempt to change the behaviour is likely to back fire. My opinion is to learn about introversion so you can understand him and gain some perspective on the way he operates. That may give you a bit more compassion about it. Then try to find a middle ground with him. He may be able to come out of his shell with gentle and supportive coaxing. Make it safe for him to be him. Accept him for him. Otherwise he will just retreat and you will get no where with any attempts to make adjustments.

If the social aspect of his personality is a deal breaker and you can't find a middle ground that you feel will be sustainable in the long run, then I would suggest some deep thinking. ...especially if you don't have kids yet. If you need a more social partner in life, you may need to find him elsewhere... and if he truly is introverted, he may be happier in the long run with someone more in tune with his natural temperament. On the other hand, sometimes two opposites can make a stellar team. The trick is understanding the other and viewing them as perfectly acceptable as is. Don't view the differences as flaws. You may be able to find ways to see your differences as strengths when coupled together. You can both be greater than yourself when together... but you must embrace the differences and truly "get" the other's point of view to do that.


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## Cletus

You won't make great progress until you come to acceptance. While acceptance takes time, it's also the thing that allows you to let go of what you wish your husband could be to work with him with what you actually have. 

As long as you believe that your husband should be different, even if you're not actually trying to change him, you'll be stuck resenting what he cannot be. If you cannot come to acceptance, then you have to decide which fork in the road to take. No one wants to spend a lifetime with a spouse who has no respect for us as we are. 

How do you get to acceptance? If I had that magic elixir, I'd be a rich man.


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## creativecat

@Satya and @happy as a clam

I just started counseling a week ago. I am definitely on the right track. 

And no, I am not cheating and have not found anyone I'd rather he be like. There are a lot of life events that I believe led to this moment we are in now. I think a lot of it can be cleaned up but I am also afraid that I am angry because of many different things. I want so badly to hug him and cry on his shoulder but something is holding me back. I am angry and I don't really know why. I feel very prideful, too. The social thing bothers me for SURE but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is now aware at how upset his apparent lack of interest has on me.


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## fat_moe

When I think of marriage, it's the big issues that are the foundation. Do you both agree on kids? What are your financial goals? Do your families mesh well? If not, how can that be addressed?

Hanging out with friends is a side item. You don't want to get caught up over a side item issue. It sounds like he economically had provided. That's a masculine trait. He sounds overall like a good guy. I think prior generations didn't necessarily have lower expectations in marriage, they just didn't sweat the small stuff.

As the comedian Katt Williams once said,

"Women will complain if they have a 98% n***a. Two percent is not there. Two ****ing percent! So they dump the dude and now they're sitting with a 76% n***a trying to rationalize it to themselves."


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## creativecat

@Cletus

Great advice. Acceptance is the answer. i have a lot of experience with that word! ha! 

I definitely understand that this is my issue and it causes me great pain that I feel this way. I have seen a therapist now for about a week and this is the topic I bring up a lot. While I think a few visits with my husband could be beneficial, that is not why I've hired her and I do understand that the bulk of this mess is because of me. Unfortunately, he seems to be dealing with social anxiety as his social behaviors were not always like this. In the beginning of the marriage he was a lot more outgoing. 

I think he's depressed and I hate that I've let my own sadness and frustration turn to such fervent anger...


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## EllisRedding

creativecat said:


> @Cletus
> 
> Great advice. Acceptance is the answer. i have a lot of experience with that word! ha!
> 
> I definitely understand that this is my issue and it causes me great pain that I feel this way. I have seen a therapist now for about a week and this is the topic I bring up a lot. While I think a few visits with my husband could be beneficial, that is not why I've hired her and I do understand that the bulk of this mess is because of me. Unfortunately, he seems to be dealing with social anxiety as his social behaviors were not always like this. In the beginning of the marriage he was a lot more outgoing.
> 
> I think he's depressed and I hate that I've let my own sadness and frustration turn to such fervent anger...


It is not clear, have you actually tried talking to him about this?


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## happy as a clam

creativecat said:


> I definitely understand that this is my issue and it causes me great pain that I feel this way. I have seen a therapist now for about a week and this is the topic I bring up a lot. While I think a few visits with my husband could be beneficial, that is not why I've hired her and I do understand that the bulk of this mess is because of me. Unfortunately, he seems to be dealing with social anxiety as his social behaviors were not always like this. In the beginning of the marriage he was a lot more outgoing.
> 
> I think he's depressed and I hate that I've let my own sadness and frustration turn to such fervent anger...


This is very good stuff, cc. Sounds like you are definitely on the right path.

If he is truly depressed and has developed social anxiety, that adds a whole other layer to the puzzle. You will have to work carefully to sort out all the issues... and he will have to address his through therapy and possibly medication. Only then, when the issues are clear, will you be able to make a sound decision.

Sometimes people can work through their issues. Sometimes people drift apart. There is nothing wrong with that. Again, acceptance.


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## creativecat

@fat_moe

The answer to all your questions is "yes". That actually made me feel a LOT better to read that...I am so grateful to have these posts that can sort of knock some sense into me.

I married him because there was a deeper love that we felt for each other - we had such a respect for one another. It wasn't puppy love and we both knew it. He was (and IS) caring, loving, a great provider, supportive of my wants and needs, and the list goes on and on! 

I think I am so caught up in how I am viewed by others that I have put a tremendously heavy burden on him. 

This is all very good. I'm starting to realize what I need to realize.


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## creativecat

@EllisRedding

I have tried talking to him about it, yes. But I start to get all emotional and then the conversation is over. If I start to yell I just stop it, apologize, and walk away. I never want to hurt him. But I feel like nothing gets accomplished because I am constantly going through this cycle. 

I don't really know how to talk to him. God. That's ironic...


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## Bam-bam

A couple more thoughts... 

Is his job extremely social? He may only have a certain level of social energy in a given day and he may use it all up at work. My job is very solitary and I love it that way. It allows me to have more social energy available at home for my family.

Also, with the job, you mentioned being proud of his accomplishments. Did these accomplishments require him to have strong social skills? If so, maybe he truly is more socially skilled than he appears?

In regards to how he acts around your friends and family, is he simply withdrawn and quiet or is he social but talking about inappropriate or embarrassing things? 

When you have these moments of disappointment in social settings, how do you present yourself to him? Is your disappointment voiced? Do you give a vibe of disappointment? Do you think he feels somehow "wrong" for the way he is?

You mentioned possible depression for him. Has he seen a therapist?

I apologize if you covered any of this and I missed it.


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## creativecat

@Bam-bam

Thank you so much! That is very helpful information and I would be SO happy to learn about introversion. I can DEFINITELY live an introverted man. I just REALLY appreciate it when he genuinely tries to engage (even a little bit) with my family. I want him to ask a question or two like "So how's your job?" or "What have you been up to this week?" 

Maybe I will find a way to tell him that without hurting his feelings...?


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## ReidWright

how many times did you bring your friends over? and your family? every weekend? multiple times a week? and how long were the visits? all day?

I bet he got burnt out, that's why you didn't notice it at first. A lot of guys don't like to hang out with people all the time. Especially if he works all day in meetings.

it's like the old showbiz say, "always leave them wanting more". I'm betting your friends and family overstayed.


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## creativecat

@Bam-bam

He is an engineer and social skills were not that necessary for his line of work. However, presentation was everything so he really knows how to clean up and present himself and his work. He is an exceptional interviewer, for example. But for some reason, he just doesn't know what to say when he is around people and becomes very quiet and fidgety. When we are in those kinds of awkward situations I always stay quiet. In the past, I used to whisper in his ear "talk" or "say something" but now I am quiet. 

I think he is depressed because of the oil and gas crisis - he unable to find a job and is forced to work in a job he doesn't like.


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## Dude007

creativecat said:


> @richardsharpe
> 
> I can tell he's depressed and there is NOTHING I can do about it...


I think he is the one re-thinking the marriage as he didn't want a social bug and wishing you will change. :frown2: You may be the source of the depression. IDK I'm just guessing here.


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## Bam-bam

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> Thank you so much! That is very helpful information and I would be SO happy to learn about introversion. I can DEFINITELY live an introverted man. I just REALLY appreciate it when he genuinely tries to engage (even a little bit) with my family. I want him to ask a question or two like "So how's your job?" or "What have you been up to this week?"
> 
> Maybe I will find a way to tell him that without hurting his feelings...?


You are very welcome.  When you describe your husband, it hits home for me. He sounds very similar to me. So if you have any questions I may be able to help. I may be able to at least tell you how I would like my wife to address the concerns with me. So, let me know if you have any questions. No private messages though, please. I don't do that anymore. ...long story. Lol.. anyway, I'll do my best to follow this thread and throw in my 2 cents when asked.


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## creativecat

@ReidWright

Maybe once a week. And I never really expected him to talk to them, it was my family I really wanted him to talk to. With friends I like it if he maybe says something like, "how are you?" but he certainly doesn't need to entertain them. 

I think what I'm really referring to is a family birthday party we went to last weekend. He sat really close to several of my family members and didn't utter a word until he was spoken to. 

For some reason that really bothered me. I stayed quiet and to this day he doesn't know it angered me. But it did. If I could just figure out how to let go of that expectation I think I will make for a much happier and healthier wife.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I wasn't trying to imply that you are unreasonable. Some people interact well in some social situations and not others. My hope was that if you could be with him in situations where he did interact well (even if these are not your favorite situations), you might be able to figure out how to get him more interested in other things.







creativecat said:


> @richardsharpe
> 
> I'm being very unreasonable and I understand that. I think the main problem is me because I become very embarrassed when family and friends start to wonder what's wrong with him. I hate explaining why he's like the way he is - I hardly understand it. It is definitely a social anxiety rather than a hanging out with a certain "crowd" and I think that's where my anger comes from. I want to help him but he won't let me.
> 
> I can tell he's depressed and there is NOTHING I can do about it...


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## Cletus

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> He is an engineer and social skills were not that necessary for his line of work.


Engineer here who works with engineers all day long.

The social aspects of small talk combined with introversion, sometimes to a fault, are common in this group. I could write pages on it. For some of us, it is hard. Harder than digging ditches. 

Have you ever gone out with him and people he considers friends? I bet he opens up like a flower in the sun, but you might find the conversation to be more along the lines of "Do you think Moore's law will hold for the next decade, or have we reached saturation on the current handling capacity and heat removal for a generalized processor?" rather than "How about those Bears?". 

He DOES owe you some effort in this area, but it's also a near certainty that he'll never become a social butterfly. You'll have to settle for small wins and incremental progress. There's nothing wrong with speaking when spoken to, either, as long as he's polite and not dour. You can reasonably expect him to be present, kind, and responsive. You can't really expect him to be the initiator nor life of the party.


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## JukeboxHero

Baby, is that you? Did you finally create an account here? Awesome!

Can you provide an example of such socially awkward situations?


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## cons

creativecat said:


> I am 30 years old and I have only been *married to my husband for only 1 & 1/2 years* and have lived with him for 2 & 1/2 years. At first, *our relationship was phenomenal. I hadn't felt the way I felt for him for ANYONE and it was obvious he and I were so compatible in so many ways. I had an incredible respect for him - I mean, I REALLY looked up to him in a lot of ways and was proud of his achievements.*
> 
> Now, I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck! *I've been slowly "falling out of love" with him for the past year or more.* The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in but I never bring my friends back to my apartment because my husband has no idea how to talk to them! It is absolutely embarrassing and I RESENT him for it. I feel like I'm living with a child a lot of the time because he's so innocent in so many ways and it gets on my nerves! I want him to be able to talk to people around us and really engage but he just doesn't seem like he can do that. Is he waiting for approval or something? Is he scared? I don't know - but I DO know he's told me several times that he really is outgoing and personable when he gets around the "right crowd". So, when he's around MY friends and MY family they are the wrong crowd? I am starting to think he simply doesn't have social skills and I am SO scared that it is going to be a huge problem in this marriage. I don't think I noticed how bad he was socially until later on in the relationship (and that is when I started to lose romantic feelings for him).
> 
> *I'm so ANGRY with him but it's absolutely ruining my marriage and I don't know what to do about it. I am not very nice to him anymore. Everything about his irritates me. If he BREATHES and I can hear it I am SUPREMELY annoyed and need to walk out of the room. *
> 
> What can I do to fix this? I feel like what I'm asking for is such a tall order but I already know that if I can't move on from this or get him to change his attitude around people, I am going to leave him.


I also get the feeling that there is someone else in mind that is bringing on this comparative analysis. The polarity of the bolded statements says a lot.


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## Cletus

So here's the sort of compromises my wife and I have made. I too am a huge introvert. 

This weekend, she had events lined up for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night. Friday was just us and my son for dinner and fun. Saturday was a work party with a bunch of awkward engineers and a concert. Sunday was a social event with some not-so-close friends.

I agreed to the Friday and Saturday events and skipped the Sunday stuff. I did my best to be personable. I am actually better in a party setting than my wife because I know I have to do it - it's work the whole time, I don't like it, I'd rather be anywhere else, but the alternative is to become your husband, which I am loathe to do. On Sunday, she went alone. By now, after three decades, she knows she'll have a better time without me there, and that's OK. I have to have my down time. 

But in exchange for my down time, I have to sometimes do social work outside of my comfort zone. This is a conversation you could have with your husband. Compromise by expecting him to try (and to fail, but to continue to try) in a safe social setting like family gatherings in exchange for plenty of time with just you or by himself. Like any skill, it doesn't improve without practice. You in turn don't get to be angry for him at not being good at it, just like he doesn't get mad at your inability to solve a partial differential equation.

Introversion and awkward social skills are not personality defects, so you need to stop viewing them as such.


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## creativecat

@Cletus

How helpful, thank you! I am SO OK with listening to "nerdy" engineer-speak. I actually LOVE it. I am so in awe of engineers and have such a high respect for them. Engineers are (or at least seem to be) analytical, methodical, slow and steady - and I am the total opposite which makes my husband and I so compatible. In areas where he is weak, I am strong, and vice versa. 

It really makes me feel like he's "showing up" for me when he tries to engage when we are with my family. I can't explain it, but I really appreciate it.


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## brooklynAnn

This used to be my husband when we first got married. What I used to do was sit with him and the two of us will have conversations. Then, eventually we would be joined by someone else and in a small group he is find. After, a while as he got to know my family, things got better. 

What I don't understand, how can you be so irritated? You knew what he was like before. You knew he was not a social man. Seems like something else is going on and due to that you are falling out of love with him. That is why you cant stand him now.


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## Bam-bam

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> He is an engineer and social skills were not that necessary for his line of work. However, presentation was everything so he really knows how to clean up and present himself and his work. He is an exceptional interviewer, for example. But for some reason, he just doesn't know what to say when he is around people and becomes very quiet and fidgety. When we are in those kinds of awkward situations I always stay quiet. In the past, I used to whisper in his ear "talk" or "say something" but now I am quiet.
> 
> I think he is depressed because of the oil and gas crisis - he unable to find a job and is forced to work in a job he doesn't like.


Wow! This guy is seriously me. Lol. I'm an engineer as well.

Personally, it takes me a long time to warm up to certain people and the more pressure there is to "have to" talk, the more I clam up. 

I noticed you said a few things about yourself and the way that you feel worries about how others see you. That hits home for me as well. My wife is the same way. She never came out and told me but I just know that the perceptions of others is important to her. Personally, that makes me even more nervous to speak up. ...especially around people that are important to her... ie. family and friends... so I'm guessing he may be extra cautious with his words around people that you hold near and dear to you. It may come across that he's disinterested but it very well may be the opposite. The idea of opening up to these people may cause him more anxiety because there's more on the line if he says something that may be perceived as negative. His defense may be to say that "these aren't my kind of people" but the truth may be that he's just scared of rejection. ...either from you or from those that you are close with.

I'm no psychologist... so keep that in mind. I'm just throwing out things for you based on my own experiences.... but hopefully that stuff made sense?

I personally think the idea of gaining more acceptance of him will work wonders for you. To get him to open up more, I believe it will be best to let him know that it's ok if he doesn't want to talk. Also, let him know that when he does talk, he always expresses himself well and that people genuinely enjoy talking to him (assuming that's true). Also, let him know that you dont expect him to always be witty or funny or the life of the party, you just want him to be him. He may need a bit of reassurance that he is socially capable. Also, I bet if you focus more on talking with friends and family when you are all together (rather than focusing on him) that he may feel more relaxed. Getting him relaxed is key. Make it safe for him to say anything and you may be surprised to see him become someone different. Funny thing is that this "different" person may just be the real him that hes afraid to show. He just needs less pressure and more acceptance and he needs to know that he can say something a bit flawed from time to time and that you will be okay with it. Also, when you do talk to friends and family in his company, try to work in a topic that he might like to chime in on. Dont look to him and expect him to chime in. The key isnt to pressure him to chime in. The key is to throw him a bone that he may choose to nibble on. If he chooses not to nibble, dont fret, give it time. Keep tossing out the occasional bone and he will eventually nibble. Patience is going to pay off here.


----------



## creativecat

@Cletus

I can't thank you enough for that example. I can really use your model of how you and your wife compromise and deal with every day issues in a loving and healthy way. I think the first year or so has been the hardest for us because we have overcome so much. I also think that I have had poor examples of how to be married. I think it's never too late to make a change and I am happy to try.


----------



## ReidWright

creativecat said:


> I think what I'm really referring to is a family birthday party we went to last weekend. He sat really close to several of my family members and didn't utter a word until he was spoken to.
> 
> For some reason that really bothered me. I stayed quiet and to this day he doesn't know it angered me. But it did. If I could just figure out how to let go of that expectation I think I will make for a much happier and healthier wife.


Did you ask him to go to this family birthday party? or did you TELL him he was going (or just assumed).

Is your family one of those that has to have a big birthday party every year? nieces, nephews, cousins, etc....it starts too be too much. Add in holidays, etc. and ugh. He's shutting down.

Does he say he doesn't want to go?


----------



## creativecat

@Bam-bam

WOW - What a relief!! I am SO glad that you can relate and give me a little insight!! Thank you so much for your lengthy responses full of such awesome advice!!!


----------



## truster

creativecat said:


> @EllisRedding
> 
> I have tried talking to him about it, yes. But I start to get all emotional and then the conversation is over. If I start to yell I just stop it, apologize, and walk away. I never want to hurt him. But I feel like nothing gets accomplished because I am constantly going through this cycle.
> 
> I don't really know how to talk to him. God. That's ironic...


It's good that you can acknowledge this. Any acceptable solution you two can come up with is going to involve understanding each others' wants and needs, and to do that you need to communicate. There's no way around that, and it'll be true for any problem you have.

If you start looking into ways to communicate more effectively, and stick to communicating yourself, I think it will reap benefits. Everyone knows there's no such thing as a mind reader, yet plenty of people convince themselves it's someone else's fault that they are not understood when they are only communicating in passive-aggressive hidden signals.


----------



## EVG39

Look, I don't want to offend you but is it at all possible that he is somewhere on the Aspergers/Autism Spectrum? What you describe sounds very much like a high functioning Aspie in a lot of ways. The skill in mathematical/technical areas, the ability to nail an interview but the inability to have a spontaneous conversation, the seeming lack of need or desire for outside interests, etc. 
If so, then there are lots of ways to approach this to improve his skill set.
But you have to figure out where he is first.


----------



## EllisRedding

Cletus said:


> Introversion and awkward social skills are not personality defects, so you need to stop viewing them as such.


So agree with this statement, it gets tiring hearing about introversion like it is some sort of disorder that needs to be fixed. I think this is where things like social media are a big positive, as it allows a more comfortable environment for introverts to interact.

I would consider myself an introverted extrovert lol. At work I have no issues interacting with co workers, clients, etc... Likewise, in certain social situations (typically small groups) I have zero issues. However, but me in a situation with larger groups and I withdraw quick. Even when I am around family, there reaches a point where I am just spent and need to be alone to recharge.

My wife at times has commented about me "disappearing" when her family is around, so I have been more aware and made more of an effort, but it just isn't as easy as it sounds. However, my wife said something to me, and even though it made me uncomfortable I owed it to her to try. 

It does help that my wife is very similar to me. I honestly could never be in a relationship with an all out extrovert lol.

Have you said something to him specifically about the family stuff (I think in one of your posts you said you didn't say anything and just got mad over it)?

Here is maybe a more tough question, let's say your husband won't / can't change, will that be enough for you to consider moving on? How is everything else with him, do you have a healthy sex life, do other things just as a couple?


----------



## Bam-bam

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> WOW - What a relief!! I am SO glad that you can relate and give me a little insight!! Thank you so much for your lengthy responses full of such awesome advice!!!


You're so very welcome. The pleasure is all mine! I'm glad I can help. Hopefully that approach I put out there works. I believe it would work for me. Its at least something to try on for size for a while to see if you get better results.

I'll let you know if I can think of any other ideas or approaches.


----------



## happy as a clam

cc... not to take this off-topic, but how is your sex life?

To be more clear, is all of this resentment you feel affecting the two of you in the bedroom? Or alternatively, if sex is disappointing or has become an "issue" in and of itself, that may also explain some of your anger and resentment. 

If not, just disregard this post!


----------



## Cletus

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> WOW - What a relief!! I am SO glad that you can relate and give me a little insight!! Thank you so much for your lengthy responses full of such awesome advice!!!


Settle, settle. Don't get too exuberant here. :wink2:

This is the kind of thing that takes years to work through. You're operating at the most basic fundamental aspect of another's personality. Don't expect miracles, either in execution or timing.


----------



## EleGirl

creativecat said:


> @Cletus
> 
> Great advice. Acceptance is the answer. i have a lot of experience with that word! ha!
> 
> I definitely understand that this is my issue and it causes me great pain that I feel this way. I have seen a therapist now for about a week and this is the topic I bring up a lot. While I think a few visits with my husband could be beneficial, that is not why I've hired her and I do understand that the bulk of this mess is because of me. Unfortunately, he seems to be dealing with social anxiety as his social behaviors were not always like this. In the beginning of the marriage he was a lot more outgoing.
> 
> I think he's depressed and I hate that I've let my own sadness and frustration turn to such fervent anger...


I think that a lot more info is needed here.

How old are the two of you?

When your husband is off work, I'm assuming he's mostly at home. What does he do at home? How is he spending his time? Does he sit there and stare at the wall all day/night? If not, what is he doing?

When you say that his social behaviors were not always like this, can you explain how they used to be? When did he change? Was it a slow change or like a switch was thrown?

Can you talk more about why you think he's depressed?

How much time a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?


.


----------



## Yeswecan

creativecat said:


> I have the problem. So what I'm really trying to do here is ask for advice, not have someone tell me that I have a problem.


You can't force your H to be more social. My W is not a social butterfly unless with her friends or family. Send him to Emily Post.


----------



## Sure that could work

creativecat said:


> @ReidWright
> 
> Maybe once a week. And I never really expected him to talk to them, it was my family I really wanted him to talk to. With friends I like it if he maybe says something like, "how are you?" but he certainly doesn't need to entertain them.
> 
> I think what I'm really referring to is a family birthday party we went to last weekend. He sat really close to several of my family members and didn't utter a word until he was spoken to.
> 
> For some reason that really bothered me. I stayed quiet and to this day he doesn't know it angered me. But it did. If I could just figure out how to let go of that expectation I think I will make for a much happier and healthier wife.


You know my husband is an idiot sometimes, he puts himself across as the biggest ******* hick he can, and it used to bother me a lot. Then I had a lightbulb moment.....I am not responsible for my husbands actions. It is not up to me to explain him to other people, it is not my responsibility if he acts like a dufus. He is responsible for his own actions. As soon as I realized that it was much easier in every situation. I would also get angry at times at his social persona, I might be married to him but he is not me and I am not him. We are two separate individuals.

I don't know if I explained this correctly but I get the feeling you are taking on the responsibility for yourself for his actions in public. Yes he reflects on you and you on him, but you both also get to be separate human beings. Let him be himself and learn to not take on the responsibility of his words or actions.


----------



## Lloyd Dobler

creativecat said:


> @richardsharpe
> 
> I'm being very unreasonable and I understand that. I think the main problem is me because I become very embarrassed when family and friends start to wonder what's wrong with him. I hate explaining why he's like the way he is - I hardly understand it. It is definitely a social anxiety rather than a hanging out with a certain "crowd" and I think that's where my anger comes from. I want to help him but he won't let me.
> 
> I can tell he's depressed and there is NOTHING I can do about it...


He needs to find his "right crowd", and it doesn't seem like he's got any clue as to how to do that. Or maybe he's scared to put himself out there with other guys.

Does he play any sports, have any particular hobbies, does he do ANYTHING other than just be at work or at home? Maybe you can encourage him to carve a place for himself outside work or your home. 

I think for some people it can be hard to start friendships, especially as you get older. I know because I'm sort of like that, too. I don't like to socialize with people at work, but I was able to make some friends from sports teams as well as being friendly with some of the husbands of my wife's friends. There are still some times, however, where I'm in a situation where I don't know a group of people and I find myself becoming more introverted than I usually am. I think that's where your husband it at all the time right now.

I can't really speak to your anger with your husband, other than to say that now that you recognize it for what it is, perhaps you can take a step back and dial it back a little bit.


----------



## EleGirl

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> Thank you so much! That is very helpful information and I would be SO happy to learn about introversion. I can DEFINITELY live an introverted man. I just REALLY appreciate it when he genuinely tries to engage (even a little bit) with my family. I want him to ask a question or two like "So how's your job?" or "What have you been up to this week?"
> 
> Maybe I will find a way to tell him that without hurting his feelings...?


There are a good number of people who just do not know how to interact with people they do not know well.

What you could do is to foster his relationship with them. For example you can ask "So how's your job?" in a way that draws your husband into the conversation. It will put a bit of a burden on you for a while but once he had built that connection he might open up.

The other thing is how much does your family interact with him. Have they truly tired to develop a relationship with him? Do they ask him how his job is going? Do they show interest in him? 

Or does your family just have a lot of negative to say about him because he's not pursuing them? 

Another thing you could do is to start standing up for him to your family. Instead of being ashamed of him and agreeing with their put downs of him, you could say things like "Yes he's a quiet guy. But he's an awesome husband." or "Oh he does not talk a lot in social settings.. he prefers to listen to learn about everyone around him. That's what makes him such a good husband too."

Have you told him negative things that your family and friends have said?

Are all of your relatives and friend perfect, with no flaws? Thus making his flaws such a HUGE thing?

I'm asking the last two because I've seen this. My family did not like my SO. I mean my 7 siblings and their spouses. Now they are married to normal people with flaws... some of them serious flaws. But that does not stop them from acting like he's the flawed one. And yes he's not perfect either.... he's just a human with good points and bad points like anyone.


----------



## EleGirl

creativecat said:


> @Bam-bam
> 
> He is an engineer and social skills were not that necessary for his line of work. However, presentation was everything so he really knows how to clean up and present himself and his work. He is an exceptional interviewer, for example. But for some reason, he just doesn't know what to say when he is around people and becomes very quiet and fidgety. When we are in those kinds of awkward situations I always stay quiet. In the past, I used to whisper in his ear "talk" or "say something" but now I am quiet.


I'm sorry but that's not cool that you did that. It might have pushed him further into his shell. 



creativecat said:


> [MENTION=212114]I think he is depressed because of the oil and gas crisis - he unable to find a job and is forced to work in a job he doesn't like.


Well that's a huge important bit of information....

ETA: So he lost a good job and is now has a job that he does not like. Plus he has a wife who basically does not like him and his so angry with him about who he is that she cannot stand being in the same room with him. Yea, I can see why he's depressed.


----------



## sapientia

brooklynAnn said:


> This used to be my husband when we first got married. What I used to do was sit with him and the two of us will have conversations. Then, eventually we would be joined by someone else and in a small group he is find. After, a while as he got to know my family, things got better.
> 
> *What I don't understand, how can you be so irritated? You knew what he was like before. * You knew he was not a social man. Seems like something else is going on and due to that you are falling out of love with him. That is why you cant stand him now.


This^ is my concern as well. That said, it can be draining to be with someone who is so very different, especially if these differences causes strain in other areas, such as discussions re: finances, children, etc.

My ex is an aspie. Also highly technical profession. Nice guy, great parent. Terrible husband (for me). Discussions with him were very difficult. Emotional content not permitted b/c it upset him and shut down discussion. We did counselling to help him open up more, etc. None of it worked. It's just not who he is. So I 'accepted' this for almost 20 years until I just couldn't do it anymore. I grok you and, possibly, can give you a taste of your future.

I will suggest, Cat, that at your core you know your own needs are being ignored. Discussion w/emotional engagement is a valid need. Over time not getting needs met builds up a lot of resentment. Again, valid feelings. If you find you are contorting yourself to your H, or he to you, then your marriage will die. It won't be a fiery flame out, but more a slow death by 1000 slow cuts. You will lose mutual respect, you for him not meeting your need, him for you not loving him for who he is. I think you know exactly what I mean.

Your choices really are acceptance, as Cletus describes beautifully, if you can contort yourself mentally to this box. I did it for 20 years until the pain of staying was worse than the pain of leaving. You ask how:

*You do this knowing fully your H cannot give you what he doesn't have (or want to give).* You have to enjoy and appreciate what he can give you. Period, full stop. If that's not enough, then move on. There is no judgment of either of you in this. You are who you are. Find someone more compatible. That's really it. You might be doing him a service also, btw. Adults do not fundamentally change who they are. 

Finally, remember life is flux. You can change your mind at any time. It really is your choice where and whom you give your energy to.


----------



## creativecat

@ReidWright

It was a rather large gathering (nieces, nephews, cousins, grandparents, etc) and I intentionally sat him next to my grandfather because he likes him. Plus my grandfather does not talk much which takes the pressure off. I also gave gave my husband an out but he said he was fine going.


----------



## creativecat

EleGirl said:


> I think that a lot more info is needed here.
> 
> How old are the two of you?
> 
> When your husband is off work, I'm assuming he's mostly at home. What does he do at home? How is he spending his time? Does he sit there and stare at the wall all day/night? If not, what is he doing?
> 
> When you say that his social behaviors were not always like this, can you explain how they used to be? When did he change? Was it a slow change or like a switch was thrown?
> 
> Can you talk more about why you think he's depressed?
> 
> How much time a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you doing things that you both enjoy?
> 
> 
> .


We are both 30 years old. 

My husband spends a lot of time researching, reading, drawing, listening to opera/classical music, and just surfing the web. He doesn't do much outside of that. We don't really go anywhere or do much and I am actually OK with that. 

We marathon TV shows and have about a half hour to an hour chat each day. Once a week we will go to the store and shop for food or for whatever. And maybe once every few months we will go do something different - two weeks ago we went to an art museum. 

He began to feel depressed with the oil and gas crisis a few months ago. He had recently graduated with a second Masters and the minute he graduated oil prices plummeted and he couldn't find a job. He has a part time job now. I think this is what happened....

I really feel horrible about this. I know he is going through a rough time but I guess somewhere I'm feeling, "well, what about me?" 

Marriage isn't easy. :/


----------



## JukeboxHero

Hey @creativecat

I didn't read your whole thread, but I really like that you're trying to improve, and that you realize this isn't all your husband's fault. I guess this means you're not my wife (bummer!). 

But seriously, it's awesome that you're doing best to fix your viewpoints in this situation.

Just curious--did you have any small samples of how he behaves in these social situations to illustrate his ZERO skillst? Maybe that would help


----------



## creativecat

I just want to thank everyone for such deep, meaningful responses. 

A lot of times people post things in anger, not knowing what to do or who to turn to. Thank you for responding with compassion and constructive criticism. It absolutely means everything to me and you will never know how much your words have touched me.

<3


----------



## creativecat

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey @creativecat
> 
> I didn't read your whole thread, but I really like that you're trying to improve, and that you realize this isn't all your husband's fault. I guess this means you're not my wife (bummer!).
> 
> But seriously, it's awesome that you're doing best to fix your viewpoints in this situation.
> 
> Seriously, though--did you have any small samples of how he behaves in these social situations to illustrate his ZERO skillst? Maybe that would help


Thank you 

When we are around my family and friends he doesn't say anything. He just stands there and fidgets with his watch, looks around, looks down at his hands, etc. It is comparable to a small child. It is embarrassing and goes way beyond shyness. Every time we are out, I hear from friends or family, "is he ok?" or "I hope he's having a good time".

What frustrates me is that I want to feel like I am with a competent adult. In so many areas of his life he is ExTREMELY competent. He is a phenomenal engineer, great interviewer, well-dressed, etc! But if you sit him down next to a real person he doesn't know what to do with them...

:crying:


----------



## EleGirl

CC, I’m cutting up your posts a bit so that I can talk about particular things. And you have different bits of related info in your several posts that are related. 

In your first post you said…….



creativecat said:


> The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in


And then you said…..



creativecat said:


> My husband spends a lot of time researching, reading, drawing, listening to opera/classical music, and just surfing the web. He doesn't do much outside of that.
> 
> ……
> 
> He had recently graduated with a second Masters


Putting those together, it seems that your husband does have activities outside of work. Getting a second Master’s degree is HUGE. Most people cannot do anything but work and study when going getting a Master’s degree. And I’ll bet that it was not a fluffy subject, was it? 

Then he researches, reads, draws, listens to opera/classical music…. Um, those are activities. Suring the web… well it depends what he’s surfing for.. it can be very constructive or not. But then again we humans do not need to be doing constructive things every minute of the day. Just hopefully it’s not destructive things he’s surfing the web for (like a porn addiction).

It seems that he is different from you and you have a problem with that. Others have covered this very well and I think you are see that this is part of the problem. He is who he is, and that’s ok.. it’s actually good.



creativecat said:


> We don't really go anywhere or do much and I am actually OK with that.





creativecat said:


> We marathon TV shows and have about a half hour to an hour chat each day. Once a week we will go to the store and shop for food or for whatever. And maybe once every few months we will go do something different - two weeks ago we went to an art museum.


The above is, I think a large part of your problem. You two are not spending enough time together doing things that bond you to each other. When this happens you WILL fall out of love with him. And falling out of love causes exactly what you are experiencing…. Irritation/anger at your spouse/partner. I suspect this is a large part of the problem.

Humans are chemical engines. A couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together doing date-like things, quality time, in order to maintain the love/passion in the relationship. Date-like things does not just mean a fancy dinner out. A walk while talking & holding hands count. Tea & desert after dinner at home while you talk counts. A good roll in the hay counts. The point is to spend time when you are focused on each other… like when you were dating. Moves and TV don’t count because you are not focused on each other.. you are focused on the screen.

Humans are chemical engines. That means that we are run by the chemicals that our bodies produce. When we meet someone we fall in love.. you know get that butterfly in our heart/stomach feeling. Well that’s just a chemical high. You see when this happens our bodies produce and uptake huge amounts of feel good chemicals: dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding & feel good hormones. This is why when people first fall it love it just feels so good. It’s because it’s like have a long term slow release cocaine in our system. That lasts for 18 to 24 months. During this time period, not only are we high on ‘love’ (aka dopamine & oxytocin) but those chemicals make us see the other person with rose colored glasses. Basically that’s when we think that someone’s flaws are ‘cute’ or ‘charming’. Then as time goes on, the levels of those chemicals drop off. And we no longer feeling those butterflies. We also do not see the other person through those rose colored glasses. So not their very existence irritates us and makes us say/think things like “I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck!”

Note that the change in YOUR feelings about him coincide with the 18 month to 24 month time period.

The good news is that there is a way to get those butterflies back, to rebuild the passion/love and to maintain it for life. There are two books that I think would really help you and augment your counseling very well. You need to take this seriously. If you do not, your marriage is on a slide to the end.


“His Needs, Her Needs”

“Love Busters” 

“Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence”

By the way, someone asked you about how your sex life is going. This is a very important question.




creativecat said:


> He began to feel depressed with the oil and gas crisis a few months ago. He had recently graduated with a second Masters and the minute he graduated oil prices plummeted and he couldn't find a job. He has a part time job now. I think this is what happened....


About your husband’s depression and anxiety. One of the best things that he can do is start exercising. Even walking would help. Maybe you could suggest that the two of you go on a daily walk. This will help him and you. Plus it would count as some of that quality time together as you walk, hold hands and talk.

One of the best things that a couple can do is to develop a hobby together.

Take suba diving classes and start taking vacations to great suba diving destinations.

Start a garden and work on it together. He might get into all the permaculture stuff going on … as an engineer he might find it fascinating (I’m and engineer too and think it’s an amazing topic)

Get into long distance walking. Or just go for daily walks.

You say that he draws. Is he any good at it? If so you two start a website that show his drawings and even that sell them.

Think.. there are a million activities that the two of you could do together to build your connection.


----------



## creativecat

EleGirl said:


> CC, I’m cutting up your posts a bit so that I can talk about particular things. And you have different bits of related info in your several posts that are related.
> 
> In your first post you said…….
> 
> 
> And then you said…..
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those together, it seems that your husband does have activities outside of work. Getting a second Master’s degree is HUGE. Most people cannot do anything but work and study when going getting a Master’s degree. And I’ll bet that it was not a fluffy subject, was it?
> 
> Then he researches, reads, draws, listens to opera/classical music…. Um, those are activities. Suring the web… well it depends what he’s surfing for.. it can be very constructive or not. But then again we humans do not need to be doing constructive things every minute of the day. Just hopefully it’s not destructive things he’s surfing the web for (like a porn addiction).
> 
> It seems that he is different from you and you have a problem with that. Others have covered this very well and I think you are see that this is part of the problem. He is who he is, and that’s ok.. it’s actually good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above is, I think a large part of your problem. You two are not spending enough time together doing things that bond you to each other. When this happens you WILL fall out of love with him. And falling out of love causes exactly what you are experiencing…. Irritation/anger at your spouse/partner. I suspect this is a large part of the problem.
> 
> Humans are chemical engines. A couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together doing date-like things, quality time, in order to maintain the love/passion in the relationship. Date-like things does not just mean a fancy dinner out. A walk while talking & holding hands count. Tea & desert after dinner at home while you talk counts. A good roll in the hay counts. The point is to spend time when you are focused on each other… like when you were dating. Moves and TV don’t count because you are not focused on each other.. you are focused on the screen.
> 
> Humans are chemical engines. That means that we are run by the chemicals that our bodies produce. When we meet someone we fall in love.. you know get that butterfly in our heart/stomach feeling. Well that’s just a chemical high. You see when this happens our bodies produce and uptake huge amounts of feel good chemicals: dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding & feel good hormones. This is why when people first fall it love it just feels so good. It’s because it’s like have a long term slow release cocaine in our system. That lasts for 18 to 24 months. During this time period, not only are we high on ‘love’ (aka dopamine & oxytocin) but those chemicals make us see the other person with rose colored glasses. Basically that’s when we think that someone’s flaws are ‘cute’ or ‘charming’. Then as time goes on, the levels of those chemicals drop off. And we no longer feeling those butterflies. We also do not see the other person through those rose colored glasses. So not their very existence irritates us and makes us say/think things like “I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck!”
> 
> Note that the change in YOUR feelings about him coincide with the 18 month to 24 month time period.
> 
> The good news is that there is a way to get those butterflies back, to rebuild the passion/love and to maintain it for life. There are two books that I think would really help you and augment your counseling very well. You need to take this seriously. If you do not, your marriage is on a slide to the end.
> 
> 
> “His Needs, Her Needs”
> 
> “Love Busters”
> 
> “Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence”
> 
> By the way, someone asked you about how your sex life is going. This is a very important question.
> 
> 
> 
> About your husband’s depression and anxiety. One of the best things that he can do is start exercising. Even walking would help. Maybe you could suggest that the two of you go on a daily walk. This will help him and you. Plus it would count as some of that quality time together as you walk, hold hands and talk.
> 
> One of the best things that a couple can do is to develop a hobby together.
> 
> Take suba diving classes and start taking vacations to great suba diving destinations.
> 
> Start a garden and work on it together. He might get into all the permaculture stuff going on … as an engineer he might find it fascinating (I’m and engineer too and think it’s an amazing topic)
> 
> Get into long distance walking. Or just go for daily walks.
> 
> You say that he draws. Is he any good at it? If so you two start a website that show his drawings and even that sell them.
> 
> Think.. there are a million activities that the two of you could do together to build your connection.


Thank you so much! 

I really liked your posts because I definitely started to see things how they really are (and how they have been), and I am starting to see where things are going wrong and where my needs aren't getting met. 

Our sex life is virtually non-existent. Once a week if we are lucky. It's been this way for the past few months. Before that, it was extremely healthy and we went through serious illnesses, financial struggles, lost jobs, etc. Now, life is WAY better than it was, but for some reason, the sex is just not there.


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## happy as a clam

creativecat said:


> Our sex life is virtually non-existent. Once a week if we are lucky. It's been this way for the past few months. Before that, it was extremely healthy and we went through serious illnesses, financial struggles, lost jobs, etc. Now, life is WAY better than it was, but for some reason, the sex is just not there.


Ok, I think THIS is where your REAL resentment is coming from.

Is he as passive in bed as he is in social situations?

If yes, then your problems are WAY bigger than "social anxiety."

Be honest... was he ever REALLY your perfect sexual partner? If not, you were just putting a band-aid on a HUGELY important facet of marriage... (I know, because I did this for 20 years in my own marriage.)


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## creativecat

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, I think THIS is where your REAL resentment is coming from.
> 
> Is he as passive in bed as he is in social situations?
> 
> If yes, then your problems are WAY bigger than "social anxiety."
> 
> Be honest... was he ever REALLY your perfect sexual partner? If not, you were just putting a band-aid on a HUGELY important facet of marriage... (I know, because I did this for 20 years in my own marriage.)


No. He was never my ideal partner but I was always told that things in that department can be molded to fit. I always thought it could be worked on; improved upon. 

But so far, it's on me to pursue. I have stopped pursuing - so there went the sex life.....


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## creativecat

creativecat said:


> No. He was never my ideal partner but I was always told that things in that department can be molded to fit. I always thought it could be worked on; improved upon.
> 
> But so far, it's on me to pursue. I have stopped pursuing - so there went the sex life.....


And I feel absolutely powerless over that part of our marriage. Other parts of the marriage I feel I have some control over (maybe). But with the sex thing, I am just so lost - I have NO idea what to do there. 

So you think that may be the real issue?


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## EllisRedding

creativecat said:


> No. He was never my ideal partner but I was always told that things in that department can be molded to fit. I always thought it could be worked on; improved upon.
> 
> But so far, it's on me to pursue. I have stopped pursuing - so there went the sex life.....


So this still goes back to my other question, what if you cant change things? What if he can't be more social? What if he can't meet your needs sexually? Where do you go from here?


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## happy as a clam

creativecat said:


> And I feel absolutely powerless over that part of our marriage. Other parts of the marriage I feel I have some control over (maybe). But with the sex thing, I am just so lost - I have NO idea what to do there.
> 
> *So you think that may be the real issue?*


Yes! I think this is your REAL issue. You are not sexually compatible and you resent the hell out of him. That's why even his BREATHING bothers you. You are p*ssed... at him, at YOURSELF.



creativecat said:


> No. He was never my ideal partner but *I was always told that things in that department can be molded to fit.* I always thought it could be worked on; improved upon.


Well, I can assure that is *ONE BIG UGLY MYTH.* I tried that experiment for 20 years.

If they s*ck in bed (no pun intended) BEFORE marriage, they will surely s*ck in bed AFTER.


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## EllisRedding

happy as a clam said:


> If they s*ck in bed (no pun intended) BEFORE marriage, they will surely s*ck in bed AFTER.


From a guy's POV that is what we like to hear :grin2:


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## creativecat

EllisRedding said:


> So this still goes back to my other question, what if you cant change things? What if he can't be more social? What if he can't meet your needs sexually? Where do you go from here?


I really don't want to divorce him. I feel like that is absolutely the last resort. He isn't abusive, he's the sweetest person ever, he works hard, and he's very giving.

But I feel like he's still holding out a piece of himself and so maybe I also feel a little lied to. So what really irritates me is the social thing, but maybe the problem is really that I don't feel fully loved in ways I need to. 

Sorry to stray from the question, but I guess my answer is...I really don't know.


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## creativecat

happy as a clam said:


> Yes! I think this is your REAL issue. You are not sexually compatible and you resent the hell out of him. That's why even his BREATHING bothers you. You are p*ssed... at him, at YOURSELF.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can assure that is *ONE BIG UGLY MYTH.* I tried that experiment for 20 years.
> 
> If they s*ck in bed (no pun intended) BEFORE marriage, they will surely s*ck in bed AFTER.


Well sh*t! Should I go see a sex therapist? Is that the next step?


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## Wolf1974

creativecat said:


> I have the problem. So what I'm really trying to do here is ask for advice, not have someone tell me that I have a problem.


Simple

So despite his lack of social circle you found something that did attract you to him so concentrate on those things and let go these things that he never was.


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## EllisRedding

creativecat said:


> I really don't want to divorce him. I feel like that is absolutely the last resort. He isn't abusive, he's the sweetest person ever, he works hard, and he's very giving.
> 
> But I feel like he's still holding out a piece of himself and so maybe I also feel a little lied to. So what really irritates me is the social thing, but maybe the problem is really that I don't feel fully loved in ways I need to.
> 
> Sorry to stray from the question, but I guess my answer is...I really don't know.


Fair enough, divorce is not something to take lightly. Have you talked to him about sex, do you have to initiate? Sex (or lack thereof) can undoubtedly put a huge strain on a marriage. If he is suffering from depression that could explain his lack of desire.


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## Blondilocks

creativecat said:


> Well sh*t! Should I go see a sex therapist? Is that the next step?


The next step is to talk to your husband. Just something casual like 'Hey, hon, I've noticed that we've stopped hitting the sheets as frequently as we used to. Are you bored of me, already?'. Just listen to his response. Don't get defensive. If he hems and haws and shuts down then see a therapist.


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## FeministInPink

creativecat said:


> He is an engineer and social skills were not that necessary for his line of work. However, presentation was everything so he really knows how to clean up and present himself and his work. He is an exceptional interviewer, for example. But for some reason, he just doesn't know what to say when he is around people and becomes very quiet and fidgety. When we are in those kinds of awkward situations I always stay quiet. *In the past, I used to whisper in his ear "talk" or "say something" but now I am quiet.*


I am an introvert; I prefer to listen and observe, and only speak in a group conversation if I have something meaningful to add. But I find that group conversations tend to be more superficial and "lowest common denominator" small-talk type things that I have no interest in at all, so I rarely contribute, I just listen. And I don't like making/initiating small talk with someone I don't know in general.

My best pal is the complete opposite, and I HATE it when he prods me to "talk" or "say something" to new people when we're out. If I want to talk to someone, I will. (Unless I find a guy attractive, in which case my insides turn to jelly.) I'm perfectly capable of doing it; in fact, I do it quite well. I just don't want to feel obligated, or do it all the time. It really depends on my energy level.

I'm a bit like your husband. I kill it in interviews, I clean up well, I do presentations at work, I'm an active participant in meetings, and I engage in professional conversations all the time, and it's fine and I'm good at all of it. Because it's part of my job. It's a professional skill. But I only go out once or maybe twice a week. I get overloaded and start to feel detached from myself if I do much more than that. I prefer to be at home, with my (solitary) hobbies--reading, writing, playing piano, etc.--or, if I have a partner, spending quality and/or quiet time with my partner. 

For an introvert, having quality one-on-one time with a partner can have a similar rejuvenating effect, but we still need some down time, too. Your H may be happy for the down time you give him when you go out on your own--but he may wish that you were spending more time with him one-on-one. You should probably check in with him on this.



creativecat said:


> I think he is depressed because of the oil and gas crisis - he unable to find a job and is forced to work in a job he doesn't like.


That may well be the case. So he might need you to spend more one-on-one time with him, and make sure he knows how much you appreciate, respect, and admire him.

I would also mention... I watched a couple of random Michelle Weiner-Davis videos yesterday, and she mentioned something that had never occurred to me before. She said that when having social gatherings or dinner guests at home (or somewhere off-site, I think it applies by extension), wives tend to go into "hostess" mode, and are completely focused on their guests and ignore their husbands, which leads to the husband feeling neglected and less important. (I'm not sure if she meant in a cumulative fashion or not.) He might feel something like this when you have people over, because 1) he's put into a situation where he is uncomfortable, and you are encouraging (nagging?) him to behave in a way that goes against his nature, and 2) he is being neglected in favor of your guests (especially if you're going out a lot).

I'm not saying this is definitely happening, but it's worth considering.


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## FeministInPink

Blondilocks said:


> The next step is to talk to your husband. Just something casual like 'Hey, hon, I've noticed that we've stopped hitting the sheets as frequently as we used to. Are you bored of me, already?'. Just listen to his response. Don't get defensive. If he hems and haws and shuts down then see a therapist.


Yes, you definitely need to talk with him about this. You guys should still be fvkcing like bunny rabbits at this point in your relationship.

And happy as a clam is right--I think the lack of sex has much to do with why you're p!ssed and resent him all the time.

Women who don't get fvcked enough get b!tchy, simple as that. True story, said every woman who's had her sexual needs neglected.


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## MarriedTex

Based on you're description, I'm wondering if your husband is feeling overwhelmed with life. When things are going the right way, even simple tasks come to feel like huge burdens. One has to muster all energy possible to even clear the smallest of challenges.

Maybe, just maybe, right now he's feeling like a failure. Gotten married, wife not satisfied with him for whatever reasons, doesn't get the affirming job. Maybe has student debt hanging over his head. For a young guy, maybe he feels like he has a lot on his shoulders.

In that situation, asking even an average social person to go to a family party is akin to asking him to climb a mountain. It's just one set of things that must be muddled through. No one really appreciates your job or what you face. Hard to relate to the challenges of an engineer. He has only a limited history with the people that have been part of your life for decades. Much more of a chance to say something wrong than to say something right. What should be a fun outing becomes just another chore that he has to work through.

So, here's the question: Is he the same way around his family? Or is he more outgoing in that setting where he has familiarity. If he is social in that setting, then you will ultimately be able to fix his socialization in other settings.

The more important thing to evaluate is his overall disposition. He sounds beaten down, and that's a terrible feeling to have in your 20s before kids. Now should be the time of your / his life. What if this is as good as it gets? Ugh!

Question: How much time do you spend with your family versus his? If he has a finite amount of "social energy" to pour out in a given period, does he resent that he spending what little he has on "your" family and "your" friends. I dunno. Maybe he's just burnt out for the moment.


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## happy as a clam

FeministInPink said:


> Yes, you definitely need to talk with him about this. You guys should still be fvkcing like bunny rabbits at this point in your relationship...
> 
> ...Women who don't get fvcked enough get b!tchy, simple as that. True story, said every woman who's had her sexual needs neglected.


:iagree:


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## Cletus

creativecat said:


> Well sh*t! Should I go see a sex therapist? Is that the next step?


Let your counselor help you with what you should be doing.

You're paying a professional, and we're crappy biased baggage laden amateurs. We went from 0 - sex counselor in five pages. You're way too eager at this point to jump on any bone you can find that you think is a solution to your troubles. Keep it in mind and bring it up with your counselor. We all see your problem through the filter of our own experiences, which are not yours.


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## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> Let your counselor help you with what you should be doing.
> 
> You're paying a professional, and *we're crappy biased baggage laden amateurs. * We went from 0 - sex counselor in five pages. You're way too eager at this point to jump on any bone you can find that you think is a solution to your troubles. Keep it in mind and bring it up with your counselor. We all see your problem through the filter of our own experiences, which are not yours.


You do realize that you're speaking for yourself?


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## brooklynAnn

Blondilocks said:


> You do realize that you're speaking for yourself?


Why, you are the expert?

It's only normal that the advice we give is clouded by our experiences.


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## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> You do realize that you're speaking for yourself?


The irony is not lost on me. 

Still, I think "I have made a professional differential diagnosis of your problem and you should do <x>" is a different beast than "take my advice to listen to your professional". When someone asks for our opinion, we are free to give it. When someone who is already in the care of a counselor asks us what to do, I think a little circumspection is in order.


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## Blondilocks

If you want to lay claim to being crappy, biased and baggage laden, be my guest.


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## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> If you want to lay claim to being crappy, biased and baggage laden, be my guest.


If you want to lay claim to none of the above, be my guest. One of us is closer to the truth than the other.


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## Blondilocks

Cletus said:


> If you want to lay claim to none of the above, be my guest. One of us is closer to the truth than the other.


Just about all of us are amateurs on this board. I believe there are 1 or 2 professional counselors who post.

As far as being crappy, yes, there are some overly bitter posters who offer advice. But, they are usually shown the light by the other posters. Most advice is offered in a sincere effort to help the OP.

Biased is fair as we are all biased. 

Baggage-laden is presumptive as not all posters are laden with baggage from their relationships. More than a few posters actually have their demons under control and can offer advice without the flavoring of their hatreds and grudges.


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## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> Baggage-laden is presumptive as not all posters are laden with baggage from their relationships. More than a few posters actually have their demons under control and can offer advice without the flavoring of their hatreds and grudges.


I would invite you to reread the path on this thread that went from "my husband has no social skills and I'm angry about that" to "should I see a sex counselor?" and tell me that advice wasn't baggage driven.


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## Blondilocks

I advised her to talk with her husband before seeing a sex counselor. To what do you object?


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## Cletus

Blondilocks said:


> I advised her to talk with her husband before seeing a sex counselor. To what do you object?


Nothing you've said at all.

I'm trying to not make this personal to anyone here. Don't be so offended.


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## pragmaster

Is he super introverted or anti-social? Maybe shy? Maybe he just doesn't like your friends. Maybe he has a super large ego. Maybe he got hurt a long time ago and tries to avoid making friends.

Either way, it is certainly reparable. You can't go through your whole life like that. And when I say you I mean him.

Smoke some weed together or something. Loosen him up somehow. 

Social skills aren't hard to develop unless your broken, autistic or retarded, no offense.


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## Blondilocks

Cletus, I was offended at your off-hand generalization of the entire posting population of TAM.

The OP brought up the sex counselor. I offered an alternative to going that route. For all we know, maybe a sex counselor would help her.

You know there are other responses than "suck it up" or "shut up". Peace.


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## AVR1962

Is it possible your husband is passive-aggressive?


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## BetrayedDad

Your husband is probably on the autistic spectrum. That's why he's so intelligent and his social skills are so bad. A lot of engineers are like that. I don't know too many who are "the life of the party" so your beef with him is beyond ridiculous imo. Who gives a fvck if he doesn't want to talk to your friends. This is your issue?!? Seems incredibly shallow to me... 

The lack of sex thing is the only legitimate gripe I've heard from you but even then I'm guessing based on this thread your attitude towards him is terrible and probably mostly to blame. He's probably not the only one "falling out of love". I will agree with the others if he had more sex with you you'd probably chill out. Maybe you should say that to him.


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## Bobby5000

I have average social skills but have a family member who is handsome and incredibly popular. First, I am not sure you would be happier with a man who attracts other women and instead of a nice evening, you have to worry about the coworker effusively smiling, and laughing at his jokes. Gain 20 lbs after the second baby, do you want neighbors and coworkers smiling at him and doing a number on your self-image. I see a cascade of women trying to make connections with him. The grass may not be greener. 

You can make some suggestion but all should start with a compliment sandwich, nice words at the beginning and end, a soft bit of constructive criticism in between. Books like How to Win Friends and Influence People are still very good. Make sure you sex life is good is you are trying to make some changes. Certainly he can smile and greet your friends, make sure he listens more than talks, express interest in what they do, compliment their appearance- it's not rocket science.


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## Bam-bam

OP, just another thing I want to say, my opinion is that there's nothing wrong with you wanting a partner that is more social. It doesn't make you selfish or "bad". You want what you want. It's hard to change that. Its good to try your best to appreciate what you have and be positive... but my opinion is that that approach has it's limits. I've been there. At some point, if you really truly want something out of life that seems impossible to find with your situation, you will eventually start to find ways to get what you need. ..even if that means going outside the marriage. Even the most faithful of us have our moments of weakness. So, by all means, do what is within your power to improve the situation but don't beat yourself up for having a desire for something that your husband is not. We all have those moments to some degree. My opinion is that it's important to be honest with yourself and your partner if it starts to become a deal breaker for you. Both of you deserve happiness and maybe you can find that with each other, but if you decide you may not be able to find long term contentment in this relationship, then that's ok. It truly is. The topic of divorce is a touchy one and you'll see many different opinions on the matter. It appears that you don't have kids yet though, so it may be good to do some soul searching and figure out what you need to go the distance. . And figure out if you think the current situation is good enough to go the distance. ...because once kids enter the equation, leaving becomes a whole new ball game. Its so much harder to leave when it means you are breaking up a family rather than a couple.


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## amber74747474

He is not what you Want in your life.You want a spark a man that is outgoing and a leader


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## Bam-bam

creativecat said:


> I am 30 years old and I have only been married to my husband for only 1 & 1/2 years and have lived with him for 2 & 1/2 years. At first, our relationship was phenomenal. I hadn't felt the way I felt for him for ANYONE and it was obvious he and I were so compatible in so many ways. I had an incredible respect for him - I mean, I REALLY looked up to him in a lot of ways and was proud of his achievements.
> 
> Now, I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck! I've been slowly "falling out of love" with him for the past year or more. The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in but I never bring my friends back to my apartment because my husband has no idea how to talk to them! It is absolutely embarrassing and I RESENT him for it. I feel like I'm living with a child a lot of the time because he's so innocent in so many ways and it gets on my nerves! I want him to be able to talk to people around us and really engage but he just doesn't seem like he can do that. Is he waiting for approval or something? Is he scared? I don't know - but I DO know he's told me several times that he really is outgoing and personable when he gets around the "right crowd". So, when he's around MY friends and MY family they are the wrong crowd? I am starting to think he simply doesn't have social skills and I am SO scared that it is going to be a huge problem in this marriage. I don't think I noticed how bad he was socially until later on in the relationship (and that is when I started to lose romantic feelings for him).
> 
> I'm so ANGRY with him but it's absolutely ruining my marriage and I don't know what to do about it. I am not very nice to him anymore. Everything about his irritates me. If he BREATHES and I can hear it I am SUPREMELY annoyed and need to walk out of the room.
> 
> What can I do to fix this? I feel like what I'm asking for is such a tall order but I already know that if I can't move on from this or get him to change his attitude around people, I am going to leave him.


Just curious if you have been able to make any progress since posting.


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## SMG15

creativecat said:


> I am 30 years old and I have only been married to my husband for only 1 & 1/2 years and have lived with him for 2 & 1/2 years. At first, our relationship was phenomenal. I hadn't felt the way I felt for him for ANYONE and it was obvious he and I were so compatible in so many ways. I had an incredible respect for him - I mean, I REALLY looked up to him in a lot of ways and was proud of his achievements.
> 
> Now, I can hardly look at him without wanting to wring his neck! I've been slowly "falling out of love" with him for the past year or more. The problem is, he has NO friends and no activities outside of work so he is either at work or home. I have friends, activities, and programs I'm involved in but I never bring my friends back to my apartment because my husband has no idea how to talk to them! It is absolutely embarrassing and I RESENT him for it. I feel like I'm living with a child a lot of the time because he's so innocent in so many ways and it gets on my nerves! I want him to be able to talk to people around us and really engage but he just doesn't seem like he can do that. Is he waiting for approval or something? Is he scared? I don't know - but I DO know he's told me several times that he really is outgoing and personable when he gets around the "right crowd". So, when he's around MY friends and MY family they are the wrong crowd? I am starting to think he simply doesn't have social skills and I am SO scared that it is going to be a huge problem in this marriage. I don't think I noticed how bad he was socially until later on in the relationship (and that is when I started to lose romantic feelings for him).
> 
> I'm so ANGRY with him but it's absolutely ruining my marriage and I don't know what to do about it. I am not very nice to him anymore. Everything about his irritates me. If he BREATHES and I can hear it I am SUPREMELY annoyed and need to walk out of the room.
> 
> What can I do to fix this? I feel like what I'm asking for is such a tall order but I already know that if I can't move on from this or get him to change his attitude around people, I am going to leave him.


It's obvious you want to bang another guy, you ain't fooling me lol


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