# You just picked the wrong person!



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Let's begin by saying that yes, sometimes we do pick the wrong people. We often ignore red flags that are being waved right in our face. However the idea that you can vet a person to the point that you know what they'll be like 10, 15, 20 or more years down the road just isn't realistic. If you're husband cheats after 20yrs I think it's just lazy to point the finger and say well she just married the wrong guy.

I would also argue that vetting a person has to be intentional. What I'm saying is if you marry your high school sweatheart and you just happen to end up staying together you can't look back in hindsight and say yeah I totally vetted him/her with all my worldly experience at 18 yrs old. 

I have a mentor that compared dating to hiring employees. The idea being that you are the CEO of your life and you are responsible for all outcomes. Anyways, when a company interviews someone they don't try and see if that person will retire with the company in 30 years. They see if they are a good fit now and they do background checks. Once the person is hired, there are boundaries and expectations. If those boundaries are not respected or expectations not me, the relationship is terminated. If 10 years later the employee is caught stealing the CEO doesn't drag the hiring manager into his office and rip them a new one for "hiring the wrong person".

I like that comparison. Sure, be intentional, don't just let anyone into your life, be selective in your interviews and afterwards have boundaries, have standards. For myself, it was the last two that I screwed up, the boundaries and standards.

What do you guys think? 

Thanks!


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I think the metaphor fits. I think it's also why it's dangerous to get married these days, in a way. It doesn't take very long to find out the fit doesn't fit for the long term anymore up to and after the cartoon hearts shoot out of your eyes and the rings have been exchanged.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I think that you are right on the money. It's what we do in response when things happens in our relationships that determines if we should blame ourselves (and not what the other person did) by adhering to our standards or not. If you don't, don't look for the fall guy, just look at yourself in the mirror.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Yah I mean there is now way of predicting what changes in a person life will bring. People get married because they have all the attributes the other person is looking for in a partner. In successful happy marriages after say 30 years, in all likelihood neither person is the same person they were on their wedding day but the couple stayed close and grew/changed together and their compatibility stayed strong. Some people change and evolve differently than their spouse and end up wanting different things in life than their partner and you have incompatibility and disconnection. Keeping my marriage strong and happy has been hard work and all but I think there is a good deal of luck involved also. The hope is the your spouses basic nature and character remains and you don't come to realize they are a completely different person than you originally thought.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> What do you guys think?


Google "The 16 Commandments Of Poon" and see how your CEO business model applies?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> Let's begin by saying that yes, sometimes we do pick the wrong people. We often ignore red flags that are being waved right in our face. However the idea that you can vet a person to the point that you know what they'll be like 10, 15, 20 or more years down the road just isn't realistic. If you're husband cheats after 20yrs I think it's just lazy to point the finger and say well she just married the wrong guy.
> 
> I would also argue that vetting a person has to be intentional. What I'm saying is if you marry your high school sweatheart and you just happen to end up staying together you can't look back in hindsight and say yeah I totally vetted him/her with all my worldly experience at 18 yrs old.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I would go so far as to say at least 75% of success in marriage has to go with who you pick. 

The sad thing is when people very clearly bought a lemon and desperately through resources in it trying to make it a sports car. Instead of scrapping it and saving up to buy a new one.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Google "The 16 Commandments Of Poon" and see how your CEO business model applies?


Don't see any contradictions if that's what you mean. This applies anyone in your life not just plates or ltrs.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You would think that long engagement periods would solve this. 

Sometimes it does, sometimes the person waiting gives up and goes curly hair hunting.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

You left out the obvious- lying on the job application. People get away with that, until there's an issue that comes up and there's a look back at the application to see if there might be something that was missed back then. If errors are found, it is normal to terminate at that point, with cause. Misrepresentation is considered a very serious offense.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> Let's begin by saying that yes, sometimes we do pick the wrong people. We often ignore red flags that are being waved right in our face. However the idea that you can vet a person to the point that you know what they'll be like 10, 15, 20 or more years down the road just isn't realistic. If you're husband cheats after 20yrs I think it's just lazy to point the finger and say well she just married the wrong guy.
> 
> I would also argue that vetting a person has to be intentional. What I'm saying is if you marry your high school sweatheart and you just happen to end up staying together you can't look back in hindsight and say yeah I totally vetted him/her with all my worldly experience at 18 yrs old.
> 
> ...


Sounds sound to me.

I did no vetting myself, but I did start nailing my PA and had her bent over my desk over 30x within the first week of hire and I let her know that her employment was contingent on her acceptance of my sexual harassment and was exclusively my executive privilege.

It worked.😉


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Sounds sound to me.
> 
> I did no vetting myself, but I did start nailing my PA and had her bent over my desk over 30x within the first week of hire and I let her know that her employment was contingent on her acceptance of my sexual harassment and was exclusively my executive privilege.
> 
> It worked.😉


Gainfully employed 👍


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Sounds sound to me.
> 
> I did no vetting myself, but I did start nailing my PA and had her bent over my desk over 30x within the first week of hire and I let her know that her employment was contingent on her acceptance of my sexual harassment and was exclusively my executive privilege.
> 
> It worked.😉


You are da man.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Interesting. All analogies break down eventually but I guess if you have an employee interviewing for other positions 2 years on, it's not a big deal and even expected but in a relationship that would get you fired.

It's hard to really know all facets of a person and when I was reading this book You Are Not So Smart there was an interesting section about the affect heuristic - we think we decide what is risky or rewarding and always opt for maximizing gains and minimize losses, but in reality, we often depend on emotions to tell us if something or someone is good or bad, overestimate rewards and tend to stick to first impressions, even when they are contradicted by new evidence. So following that logic, we make decisions based on emotions (which can be tricky) and if our first impression tells us someone is a real catch, we often stick to that first impression even when there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. So you might think you are vetting partners but in reality your emotions and first impressions are quite powerful...


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> Interesting. All analogies break down eventually but I guess if you have an employee interviewing for other positions 2 years on, it's not a big deal and even expected but in a relationship that would get you fired.
> 
> It's hard to really know all facets of a person and when I was reading this book You Are Not So Smart there was an interesting section about the affect heuristic - we think we decide what is risky or rewarding and always opt for maximizing gains and minimize losses, but in reality, we often depend on emotions to tell us if something or someone is good or bad, overestimate rewards and tend to stick to first impressions, even when they are contradicted by new evidence. So following that logic, we make decisions based on emotions (which can be tricky) and if our first impression tells us someone is a real catch, we often stick to that first impression even when there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. So you might think you are vetting partners but in reality your emotions and first impressions are quite powerful...


Add to that the Sunk Cost Fallacy where you end up thinking you have "all this time invested" and it's even more powerful.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> Interesting. All analogies break down eventually but I guess if you have an employee interviewing for other positions 2 years on, it's not a big deal and even expected but in a relationship that would get you fired.
> 
> It's hard to really know all facets of a person and when I was reading this book You Are Not So Smart there was an interesting section about the affect heuristic - we think we decide what is risky or rewarding and always opt for maximizing gains and minimize losses, but in reality, we often depend on emotions to tell us if something or someone is good or bad, overestimate rewards and tend to stick to first impressions, even when they are contradicted by new evidence. So following that logic, we make decisions based on emotions (which can be tricky) and if our first impression tells us someone is a real catch, we often stick to that first impression even when there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. So you might think you are vetting partners but in reality your emotions and first impressions are quite powerful...


Yes, emotions distort our judgment. I found it helpful to use some books about relationships that take you through evaluating yourself and potential partners more objectively, to determine overall compatibility. I also found that time and experiences together (and paying attention to difficulties and how they're resolved) improves the likelihood of a good long term result.

Also, the analogy need not break down if you're polyamorous. Interviewing for "other positions" is expected and even encouraged - you just don't leave your current position.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> You left out the obvious- lying on the job application. People get away with that, until there's an issue that comes up and there's a look back at the application to see if there might be something that was missed back then. If errors are found, it is normal to terminate at that point, with cause. Misrepresentation is considered a very serious offense.


I could see how management could be intentional about that. It makes it easier to fire people. And there's probably no time limit.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

In the fog of being "in love" with somebody, we put on those rose-colored glasses and ignore all the red flags. Inevitably the fog lifts and we're left saying, "Oh, I guess that one little thing I saw back in 2006 was a big deal after all. Oh, and that other thing.... and that other thing..."

I talk to a lot of guys in my coaching, and I can say without a doubt that 0% of them, in hindsight, were completely surprised by their wife's family-destroying behavior. They ALL look back and see obvious glaring red flags waving around like crazy... but they dutifully ignored them because they were in love and they felt bad for doing something silly like looking at their new partner's faults. "Hey, I'm not perfect! Just because she has four kids by three different guys, is unemployed, used to be a heroin addict, and was abused by every man in her life... that doesn't make her a bad person! We should move in together after only dating for six months!"


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

The main point from my mentor is when you realize you have dead weight in your life, get rid of it. It doesn't just apply to your romantic relationships. He's coming from a business perspective and having seen personal relationships literally ruin people professionally.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> Add to that the Sunk Cost Fallacy where you end up thinking you have "all this time invested" and it's even more powerful.


EXACTLY! That is the thinking of a lot of folks. I am not the biggest Steve Harvey fan but one question he asked rang true when it came to that notion. People would come to him sometimes with major relationship issues and would ask well I've spent 5 years or 10 years or however long, should I stick it out and hope she'll or he'll change? He usually asks "you spent X years in this relationship. Do you want X more years like this?" Usually if it's a minor issue or one that can be addressed, that's an easy question to answer. But if it's a really problematic issue then the answer is usually, of course not. It's silly to spend the rest of your life with someone if you downright hate them just because you have invested some time together. But in reality a lot of people do this. Hell, I stayed for a year and a half after I should have because of sunk cost and another major factor - our child.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> EXACTLY! That is the thinking of a lot of folks. I am not the biggest Steve Harvey fan but one question he asked rang true when it came to that notion. People would come to him sometimes with major relationship issues and would ask well I've spent 5 years or 10 years or however long, should I stick it out and hope she'll or he'll change? He usually asks "you spent X years in this relationship. Do you want X more years like this?" Usually if it's a minor issue or one that can be addressed, that's an easy question to answer. But if it's a really problematic issue then the answer is usually, of course not. It's silly to spend the rest of your life with someone if you downright hate them just because you have invested some time together. But in reality a lot of people do this. Hell, I stayed for a year and a half after I should have because of sunk cost and another major factor - our child.


Me too! I stayed 5 years. Insanity.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, emotions distort our judgment. I found it helpful to use some books about relationships that take you through evaluating yourself and potential partners more objectively, to determine overall compatibility. I also found that time and experiences together (and paying attention to difficulties and how they're resolved) improves the likelihood of a good long term result.
> 
> Also, the analogy need not break down if you're polyamorous. Interviewing for "other positions" is expected and even encouraged - you just don't leave your current position.


Yeah I guess that's true for bigamists too.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

joannacroc said:


> Yeah I guess that's true for bigamists too.


Bigamy is where two or more spouses are usually unaware of each other, so it's cheating. It's also illegal.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Al_Bundy said:


> Let's begin by saying that yes, sometimes we do pick the wrong people. We often ignore red flags that are being waved right in our face. However the idea that you can vet a person to the point that you know what they'll be like 10, 15, 20 or more years down the road just isn't realistic. If you're husband cheats after 20yrs I think it's just lazy to point the finger and say well she just married the wrong guy.
> 
> I would also argue that vetting a person has to be intentional. What I'm saying is if you marry your high school sweatheart and you just happen to end up staying together you can't look back in hindsight and say yeah I totally vetted him/her with all my worldly experience at 18 yrs old.
> 
> ...


Well I think the business analogy isn't the best one. I mean if you hire honest employees they really don't steal so that is a case of you picked the wrong one. 

Further while it is true people change over the years. Me and my husband have intentionally changed in similar ways. If I take up gardening he comes along and gardens too. If I see he doesn't really like it I give it up. If he wants to raise bees. I read about bees and get my own little hive and bee jacket. We consciously know we want to stay connected and so we do.

While I think people can change so much or in ways that make two people incompatible, I also think a lot of it is the picking in the first place. Many women are desperate to get married, men pick cause she's hot, both pick because they don't want to be lonely. blah blah blah. So many are married to people we as outsiders wouldn't have recommended right? How many times have we heard. My family never liked my spouse and didn't want me to marry them. So is the family just awful or could they see something the two hump bunnies couldn't. How many marry cause they ended up pregnant.

I feel like I am blessed beyond words as I have my husband and a terrific first marriage that has lasted 27 years. But I married at 23 and I had dated enough I knew exactly what I wanted, honestly in a man. So when I met my husband I knew of the first date this was the one I wanted to marry. Then after we were married we had a few conscious conversations about how to make sure we stayed married. In much of our thinking we think of how this will effect our partner. I will say I think a marriage can be good with any two willing people which is why arranged marriages can work. But I attribute much of my success to picking the right one for me which having intentional decision making.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

I kinda like the business interview analogy; I'd add that more experienced interviewers tend to make better hiring decisions. And learn to recognize or tease out facts that applicants might learn to hide over the years.

When I first reached out here, years ago, a couple people commented to me "_How are you just realizing this about your wife? People don't change over night. You must have ignored red flags, and bla bla bla..._"

I don't see the point of comments like that! Yes, maybe I ignored red flags... or maybe I didn't know what to do about them?!! maybe I accepted her excuses & explanations for her behavior, and being kind, forgave her and tried to move forward? 

Whatever the reason, does that mean I'm doomed? I shouldn't ask for help because I ignored red flags? I should just suffer now?

No one would say the same thing if there was physical abuse involved. So yeah, I think the interview analogy is a better way to look at relationships, and how bad ones formed. 

To expand on the analogy a bit... Businesses with hiring needs sometimes overlook issues just to get a body in the seats... sometimes people do that too. And employees don't always do the job the way "the boss"
wants it done, but they can learn to live with it over time. Sometimes not...


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Yah I mean there is now way of predicting what changes in a person life will bring. People get married because they have all the attributes the other person is looking for in a partner. In successful happy marriages after say 30 years, in all likelihood neither person is the same person they were on their wedding day but the couple stayed close and grew/changed together and their compatibility stayed strong. Some people change and evolve differently than their spouse and end up wanting different things in life than their partner and you have incompatibility and disconnection. Keeping my marriage strong and happy has been hard work and all but I think there is a good deal of luck involved also. The hope is the your spouses basic nature and character remains and you don't come to realize they are a completely different person than you originally thought.


I have to give MAJOR props to this guy right here. We always hear that marriage is work but it's nice to see someone say that luck played a part too. You could have just talked about how you and your spouse are these zen like creatures who just know more than the rest of us lol. Respect.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TomNebraska said:


> I kinda like the business interview analogy; I'd add that more experienced interviewers tend to make better hiring decisions. And learn to recognize or tease out facts that applicants might learn to hide over the years.
> 
> When I first reached out here, years ago, a couple people commented to me "_How are you just realizing this about your wife? People don't change over night. You must have ignored red flags, and bla bla bla..._"
> 
> ...


Thats the perfect analogy because those business are usually never truly happy with the employee but often times don't know how to get rid of them.

BTW. Nobody should imply not to reach out for help. Just because you ignored red flags doesn't mean you can't try to improve the situation.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

The reason a lot of red flags are seen in hindsight is because we didn't know they were red flags at the time. It's fine to help someone connect the dots, that's different. For example in a business context I had heard the phrase you're the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with. Unfortunately I kept that gem on the business side of my brain and didn't let it cross over into romantic relationships. That alone would have been enough to say "next" on my current wife.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Vetting is important but highly overrated. Many people seem to think if you could somehow perfectly vet a prospective spouse, the rest will all work out because you selected well. 

Nothing could be farther from the truth.
While vetting is important, it’s like an initial gear check (everything is in order and you are well prepared to begin) - nothing more. 
You could pick the perfect high-quality / righteous person, and 20 years later it could still go to **** and they can end up treating you very badly - if you don’t manage the relationship properly. ANYONE is capable of cheating or otherwise behaving badly, and people will generally behave as badly as you let them. 

That said, yes it’s important to make sure your core values/character /view of marriage/vision for the future etc. are aligned. Picking well definitely helps to avoid setting yourself up for failure, but that’s it. So be deliberate and purposeful about vetting (I like the CEO/hiring analogy), but understand it’s just a starting point.

The more important success factor in avoiding a bad spouse/bad outcome is your ongoing and deliberate management of yourself and your expectations / boundaries with your spouse / relationship. 
Men: Are you leading the relationship, are you continuing to be a strong, competent, attractive man she can respect and admire? Are you continuing to be fun/flirty/exciting with your wife? Are you operating in your frame and maintaining your boundaries?
Women: same principle applies, line items are different.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> The reason a lot of red flags are seen in hindsight is because we didn't know they were red flags at the time. It's fine to help someone connect the dots, that's different. For example in a business context I had heard the phrase you're the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with. Unfortunately I kept that gem on the business side of my brain and didn't let it cross over into romantic relationships. That alone would have been enough to say "next" on my current wife.


Keeping the analogy going, some people - especially more dishonest people - learn they can just lie on resumes & interviews to get ahead. And they get better at it the more they do it.

Other people who were raised differently might not have realized how much dishonesty is out there in the world, or been largely shielded from it. 

So... yeah, by the time you're in your 20's or 30's you might not have developed the cynicism or cunning needed to identify the behavior or more accomplished liars. Or simply don't realize how easily some people will casually lie.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well if you are talking about my unicorn marriage you missed the point.

my point was I married someonethat I trusted to make intentional decision making for life.

If both spouse did that from day one, then the marriage can work. I don’t sometimes choose to ditch my spouse for xxx. When I make a decision I don’t just think what I want but also how it might effect him. Not just the huge decisions that come every couple years. 
So choosing not to do the dishes? I know he will. And I’m no saint I choose not to do the dishes a lot but then the next thing comes and I go hey I’ll do that.

it isn’t magic. It’s the ‘work’ of marriage. I know I could never have married his brother because when his wife was pregnant he came home with a new 2 door mustang without discussing it. That was not intentional decision making. Ever try to get 2 kids out of the back of a sports car?
But because she didn’t work many here would laugh that off and say he should be able to buy whatever he wants.
After 20 years in the same 2 bedroom house 1 bathroom in a small town they still have a mortgage.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well if you are talking about my unicorn marriage you missed the point.
> 
> my point was I married someonethat I trusted to make intentional decision making for life.
> 
> ...


I was talking about the very old saying "marriage is work" in general.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

One thing not mentioned in employer analogy is the work environment, working conditions and compensation package of the employer - not all employers are created equal and not all can vet to the same degree as others. 

Which company is able to obtain the higher quality and more faithful employee, the one that has higher starting salary for that field along with a full compensation package with profit sharing and stock options or the one hiring part time at minimum wage for the season with no additional benefits. 

A Fortune 100 company with a full benefit package, highest industry pay and clean, comfortable work environment is going to have a larger pool of applicants and a higher average quality of candidates than someone needing an extra set of hands to operate their hot dog stand at the park for the summer. 

The quality of your partner and your satisfaction with them as well as their satisfaction in you is going to be influenced in large part by YOUR quality, your status and what you have to offer as a spouse. 

I saw an interesting YT video a little while back where a guy was advising men not to even consider marrying or entering into a committed exclusive relationship unless HE had the following qualifications - 


he was in great physical shape, dressed well and took good care of himself.
Made at least $100k/yr without any significant outstanding debt or financial liability.
-Had been with at least 50 women previously. 
-Was at least 30 years old. 

At first that seemed a little eyebrow raising but then I saw the wisdom of it. Most people will advise on what traits and characteristics the other person should have before you consider marrying them. His approach was advising what traits and characteristics a man should have HIMSELF before considering marriage. 

There's actually much wisdom in his advice. A man that is at least 30 years old, in great shape, making at least $100k/yr and has the the dating and social and sexual experience of dating 50 women will likely have the wisdom, know-how and options and opportunities that will allow him to be able to vet and select a compatible match for him and he will likely have the traits and characteristics that would give a woman cause to want to be with him and strive to make the relationship work. 

Contrast that to a fat, video-game playing 24 year old that stocks shelves at Walmart and lives in his mom's basement. 

Which of those two is going to have more options and a higher quality of candidates to choose a committed mate from?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now lets apply that women. 

Which is going to have a larger pool of quality candidates to choose from - someone that has no children, no ex husbands, no significant financial debt takes care of herself and is fit and looks good and has a generally pleasant and respectful disposition.

Or an overweight, bitter, welfare mom with 4 kids from several different baby daddys and has a sense of entitlement that blames all her problems on men. 

Which one is actually going to be able to vet a pool of suitable candidates and select the higher quality mate?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So I think a critical piece of the puzzle that is being left of the discussion thus far is what is the degree of quality and the league of the SELECTOR. 

The higher your own quality and the higher your own league and your own status, the better your options and the better your chances of being able to get a higher quality and more suitable mate. 

You can't be a fat, unambitious, stock boy at walmart that sits playing video games and spanking to porn in your mom's basement all day and hope to get to sort through a bunch of bikini models and Swedish porn stars to choose which one will lay you like tile all night and still have the energy to make you your favorite omelet in the morning. 

And nor can you be a fat, frumpy, welfare mother with a litter of kids from various baby daddys and a chip on your shoulder on how men are pigs and expect to get a tall, handsome, Fortune 500 executive that will fly you off to exotic beaches and send you to day spas and make all your problems go away. 

You get your own league. Your selection pool is your own league and below. So the quality of person you get to choose from is dependent on your own quality and your own league.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I agree that your status definitely affects your options, but you can still miss red flags. Lots of high status rock stars, celebrities and so on have plenty of options but still find themselves in divorce court, sometimes more than once.

Plus what you're describing is a top tier man (and woman) which brings it's own set of issues. Tom Leykis gave out similar advice in the 90s where he told guys to not get into a relationship until at least 25 AND they had realized their life's dream as far as career or whatever. Regardless, most guys will be doing better financially at 35 than 20. Guys who get married young are getting married at their lowest point in the dating market. They're cashing out before the game even gets started.


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