# Do women ever question WHY their men have affairs ?



## Dave.Tea

Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together) 
My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own ! 
I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)

I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection) 
Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan ! 
I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ? 
I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


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## C.C. says ...




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## MJJEAN

If you had ended the marriage to your wife before you slept with the other woman I'd agree you weren't cheating. However, it seems the marriage was in a grey area when the affair began. 

Either way, you're divorcing and who you're screwing isn't your STBX wife's business anymore.


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## WandaJ

Dave.Tea said:


> It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Do men ever think that MAYBE it was their action that created reaction?

this is problem that goes for both genders.


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## sokillme

What's to question, men have affairs for the same reason women have them. Poor character. The inability to solve problems or perceived problems in healthy ways.

The fact that you see your affairs as your wife's responsibility means you are probably going to repeat the cycle, and blame (women) again.

Next time divorce your wife, or at least threaten to and force the issue, maybe then you can communicate about it and figure out where the disconnect is. Be open to the fact that it might have a lot to do with you too. Even if it isn't you get to keep your dignity and honor which is more important then your orgazem.

I am a man by the way.


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## LosingHim

So, let me get this straight? It's your wifes fault you cheated?


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## Married but Happy

Cheating is the cheater's choice, and sometimes their prior behavior created the conditions that made the marriage unpleasant. Other times, the spouse has made the marriage unpleasant, and is often unwilling to change. The breakdown in the marriage provides _motivation _to cheat to get some of what's been missing - but never forces that choice.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

The W leaving you stranded would've been the screaming end.

The next day would find her sh!t out on the street.


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## Andy1001

By my reckoning you were in your late forties when you got married and two years later your wife stopped having sex with you.
Why on earth did you stay in this disaster of a marriage for another three years?
You lost the moral high ground by cheating even though you tried to romanticise your affair and I for one would love to hear your wife’s side of the story.


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## Dave.Tea

LosingHim said:


> So, let me get this straight? It's your wifes fault you cheated?


You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


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## Cletus

Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


Your spouse might put the bullets in the gun and hand it to you, but they don't pull the trigger.


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## Dave.Tea

Andy1001 said:


> By my reckoning you were in your late forties when you got married and two years later your wife stopped having sex with you.
> Why on earth did you stay in this disaster of a marriage for another three years?
> You lost the moral high ground by cheating even though you tried to romanticise your affair and I for one would love to hear your wife’s side of the story.


You wouldn’t want to hear my wife’s side of the story..because you would be very quickly bored with the BS. I endeavoured to work through the “threats of separation” numerous times, to try & make things right for the sake of a “nice comfy” lifestyle & house...when the reality was, I was wasting my time. Life is way too short too procrastinate over things like this....I’m out, I’m happy, I’ve lost money...but what price happiness & sanity ? And romanticised the affair....because it feels very cathartic.


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## Dave.Tea

Cletus said:


> Your spouse might put the bullets in the gun and hand it to you, but they don't pull the trigger.


At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions....how many times do you NEED telling that this relationship is over, before you need to be pro-active ? My friend of thirty plus years died of a brain tumour last year....I’m not going to waste “my dash” (If you know what that means?) anymore


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## LosingHim

Ok. So quite simply, you were unhappy in the marriage. No one can fault you that. It sounds miserable. HOWEVER – cheating is 100% a CHOICE of the cheater and not the FAULT of the betrayed. Your wife didn’t drive you to cheat. You CHOSE to stay in a marriage you were unhappy in instead of leaving and then when the chance presented itself you made the CHOICE to cheat while blaming it on your wife. It really is that simple.

There are what I refer to as catalysts for cheating. Sure, there’s all sorts of background noise going on that makes people unhappy. It happens in a lot of marriages. But at the end of the day, you have a choice to stay or go. You didn’t go. You stayed and then chose to start a relationship with another woman. Sure, the relationship is over, and that’s all fine and dandy. Still not your wifes fault you cheated though.


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## sokillme

Dave.Tea said:


> At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions..


Spoken like someone with two failed marriages. Sorry man but you should be questioning the validity of your actions until the day you die, people who have great lives contently reassess everything about themselves and try to be better. Which is why they have great lives. This is how you gain wisdom.

You don't stop learning and improving at 50.

I don't think anyone thinks you were wrong to want to have more intimacy with your wife, just for cheating.

Honestly I think you do too, and that is really what this post is about.


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## Dave.Tea

LosingHim said:


> Ok. So quite simply, you were unhappy in the marriage. No one can fault you that. It sounds miserable. HOWEVER – cheating is 100% a CHOICE of the cheater and not the FAULT of the betrayed. Your wife didn’t drive you to cheat. You CHOSE to stay in a marriage you were unhappy in instead of leaving and then when the chance presented itself you made the CHOICE to cheat while blaming it on your wife. It really is that simple.
> 
> There are what I refer to as catalysts for cheating. Sure, there’s all sorts of background noise going on that makes people unhappy. It happens in a lot of marriages. But at the end of the day, you have a choice to stay or go. You didn’t go. You stayed and then chose to start a relationship with another woman. Sure, the relationship is over, and that’s all fine and dandy. Still not your wifes fault you cheated though.


Umm....how far do you need to be pushed towards the edge, before you decide it’s easier just to jump ? I stayed to try (on numerous occasions to get things on track) and because I WANTED to try & make it work.....I did “cheat” (technically ?) did i pre-meditate the action ? No. It was two mutually consenting adults that felt a mutual itch that needed scratching.....
I was not prepared to live in a sexless, unhappy, sham of a marriage anymore (it’s not the 1940’s anymore !) this relationship was way over a long time before my “indiscretion”....it was nothing more than a piece of paper & a ring.....it resembled two housemates not a married couple.


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## SpinyNorman

You wanted to know what women think about, so you posted in the Men's Clubhouse.


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## Dave.Tea

sokillme said:


> Spoken like someone with two failed marriages. Sorry man but you should be questioning the validity of your actions until the day you die, people who have great lives contently reassess everything about themselves and try to be better. Which is why they have great lives. This is how you gain wisdom.
> 
> You don't stop learning and improving at 50.
> 
> I don't think anyone thinks you were wrong to want to have more intimacy with your wife, just for cheating.
> 
> Honestly I think you do too, and that is really what this post is about.


Are you aware of the poem “the dash” ? Look it up....I’m not prepared to waste my dash. Yes, I wanted more intimacy with my wife...but part of the attraction is mental stimulus too....when you are repeatedly told “I don’t find you attractive anymore, i don’t want to sleep with you, I don’t want to live with you.....” how long does it take before you decide “f#ck this, I’m wasting my time”...and my take on it, apart from a legal contract, the marriage was over.


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## Lance Mannion

Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


This is just an ego salvage operation on your part now. Everyone desperately wants to think of themselves as a swell person so they find way to rationalize their bad acts.

You made a vow to your wife. If you want another woman, the proper way is to divorce your wife, not sneak around on her.


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## Mr. Nail

You two fight dirty. 
your 5th anniversary sounds a lot like my 55th bday.
You planned a getaway that:
- she had no interest in.
- made her feel pressured.
- required her to drive in nasty conditions.
Then you complained about her piss poor *****y attitude.
So she jumped in the car and stranded you. 
This is just one example of how you two treat each other.
You didn't have an affair, you just happened to be at the controls when the inevitable train wreck occurred. And yes you could have put it off, by being a stand up guy. 
But the train wreck was still going to happen. You chose the way it happened.


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## Dave.Tea

Lance Mannion said:


> This is just an ego salvage operation on your part now. Everyone desperately wants to think of themselves as a swell person so they find way to rationalize their bad acts.
> 
> You made a vow to your wife. If you want another woman, the proper way is to divorce your wife, not sneak around on her.


And...my SBTX made a vow to ME, if you hold importance on the basis of a vow ? 
Is her behaviour acceptable as a “wife” ? Not in my eyes ! Respect is a two way street...give it out, you get it back....


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## sokillme

Dave.Tea said:


> Are you aware of the poem “the dash” ? Look it up....I’m not prepared to waste my dash. Yes, I wanted more intimacy with my wife...but part of the attraction is mental stimulus too....when you are repeatedly told “I don’t find you attractive anymore, i don’t want to sleep with you, I don’t want to live with you.....” how long does it take before you decide “f#ck this, I’m wasting my time”...and my take on it, apart from a legal contract, the marriage was over.


Seems to be pretty easy to tell your wife then. If you feel so confident in this, why this post then?

Again I don't have an issue with you leaving the marriage, I actually often advocate for it in situations like this.


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## happyhusband0005

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Back when I first came across this site I had a similar attitude. My figuring was there must be a reason why people cheat, a guy who's wife cheats must not be a good husband and not meeting her needs and vice versa. What I have come to learn is nope people cheat because they want to and are generally self centered individuals. People who know they should be ending the marriage but don't and cheat anyway are just cowards. 

Getting stranded at the hotel should have been the catalyst for you filing. If I had been in your situation I would have got an uber or something back to my home town, got a hotel room there. Gone to see a lawyer and had her served without ever even going home. I can fully understand why you wanted out but jumping the gun and starting an affair before having the this marriage is over talk was just procrastinating on the hard stuff. The hard stuff was then made less scary for you by being in a new relationship already. You say since your friend of 30 years died you don't want to waste any time, well why did you waste time ending the marriage? That was probably your greatest source of unhappiness why wait? 

This is why people will say people cheat because of poor character, because it's true. It was a lack of backbone and character that contributed to you not pulling the trigger on ending the marriage a while back.


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## RebuildingMe

Dave.Tea said:


> At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions....how many times do you NEED telling that this relationship is over, before you need to be pro-active ? My friend of thirty plus years died of a brain tumour last year....I’m not going to waste “my dash” (If you know what that means?) anymore


The “pro-active” thing you should’ve done is file for a divorce, not bang another woman.


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## Lance Mannion

Dave.Tea said:


> And...my SBTX made a vow to ME, if you hold importance on the basis of a vow ?
> Is her behaviour acceptable as a “wife” ? Not in my eyes ! Respect is a two way street...give it out, you get it back....


I doubt she vowed at your wedding to put out for you.

You're desperately trying to find a way to sooth your ego and you're going to ridiculous lengths to do it. If you're not happy with your sex life, and thus the state of your marriage, deception and betrayal are not the APPROPRIATE responses. You confront the problem head on, end the marriage, and then go screw around as a free agent. You are wholly in the wrong here.


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## Prodigal

Sounds to me like you're just here to argue your point. Fine by me. But you asked for feedback and you got it. Don't like the answers? Don't ask the questions.


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## Dave.Tea

Prodigal said:


> Sounds to me like you're just here to argue your point. Fine by me. But you asked for feedback and you got it. Don't like the answers? Don't ask the questions.





MJJEAN said:


> If you had ended the marriage to your wife before you slept with the other woman I'd agree you weren't cheating. However, it seems the marriage was in a grey area when the affair began.
> 
> Either way, you're divorcing and who you're screwing isn't your STBX wife's business anymore.


The only logistical response ! Thankyou !


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## Prodigal

Dave.Tea said:


> The only logistical response !


Do you mean logical?


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## Lance Mannion

Prodigal said:


> Do you mean logical?


I hope not, because then he's quite wrong in his statement.


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## ConanHub

I think the same could be said for a man treating a woman the way your wife treated you.

I don't really disagree with your perspective otherwise.

I have to say, that was a marriage ender move she did by leaving you at the hotel.

I would have let her know immediately we were through however.



Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


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## Prodigal

Lance Mannion said:


> I hope not, because then he's quite wrong in his statement.


Not necessarily, seeing that logistics is the detailed organization and implementation of a complex operation.


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## SpinyNorman

Dave.Tea said:


> And....what reaction do you think it would have generated in the ladies dept ? I would have been seen as the c#nt from hell !


 You seem to be conflicted about wanting to know what women think. If you don't want to know, why does your thread title wonder that thing? If you do, why post in a forum they're not supposed to post in?


> And there are ladies commenting on here ?


It is true that Men's Clubhouse has become an oxymoron, but I still don't get using it as a venue to survey the female mind.


> Would you have preferred me to be more “misogynistic” with my description ? “Yeah so I f#cked this other woman, get over it *****es ?”


I have no idea why you're asking me this.


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## DownByTheRiver

I think a lot of women wonder why their men have affairs, but it's not to blame themselves, because he is, after all, the cheater, and that's a dealbreaker for most. I think most women conclude that cheaters don't handle things maturely and get stuck on that bit about if he actually loved you, the very last thing he'd want to do is hurt you that way.


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## TXTrini

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


My ex cheated on me, I didn't ask why, the answer is obvious. Cheating can be a sign of: lack of moral compass, selfishness, cowardice, passive-aggression, insecurity - take your pick. Your wife will have to deal with her contribution to the death of your marriage, cheating is all on you. I hope you two don't have kids who have to deal with this **** show.


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## re16

Even in a bad situation, which you were definitely in, dignity, character, and integrity matter.

It would have been quite easy to simply inform her that the relationship was over prior to moving on.

Your question really should have been about if women ever question why their husband divorced them.

Cheating is never justified. Often the cheater re-writes the history as a method of justification, which seems likely here also.


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## Livvie

re16 said:


> Even in a bad situation, which you were definitely in, dignity, character, and integrity matter.
> 
> It would have been quite easy to simply inform her that the relationship was over prior to moving on.
> 
> Your question really should have been about if women ever question why their husband divorced them.
> 
> Cheating is never justified. Often the cheater re-writes the history as a method of justification, which seems likely here also.


Do you think he's rewriting history with the being left stranded at the hotel scenario?🤔


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## TXTrini

Livvie said:


> Do you think he's rewriting history with the being left stranded at the hotel scenario?🤔


When people exhibit a serious lack of integrity, everything they say/do is questionable. He has his conscience to live with, it no longer matters.


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## re16

Livvie said:


> Do you think he's rewriting history with the being left stranded at the hotel scenario?🤔


No, I think that move was 100% divorce material, he just didn't have the guts to tell her so.


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## Girl_power

Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


And this is why I hate men.


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## Lance Mannion

Girl_power said:


> And this is why I hate men.


But he has a point, his error was in how he went about it, cheating.

Imagine if marriage was a wholly consuming relationship, everything within and nothing outside. This would mean that a woman's emotional life, like a sex life, could only be expressed within marriage. No more heart-to-hearts with your mother or best friend, every emotional discussion has to be with your husband. Now you want to talk to him and he tells you "Not tonight dear, I have a headache." But that's not the world we live in, only sex is reserved for marriage, which means the Low Libido Spouse controls the sexual inner life of the Higher Libido Spouse.


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## Girl_power

Lance Mannion said:


> But he has a point, his error was in how he went about it, cheating.
> 
> Imagine if marriage was a wholly consuming relationship, everything within and nothing outside. This would mean that a woman's emotional life, like a sex life, could only be expressed within marriage. No more heart-to-hearts with your mother or best friend, every emotional discussion has to be with your husband. Now you want to talk to him and he tells you "Not tonight dear, I have a headache." But that's not the world we live in, only sex is reserved for marriage, which means the Low Libido Spouse controls the sexual inner life of the Higher Libido Spouse.


I’m not disagreeing about that. 

I meant the fact that he’s an entitled, overly confident, remorseless, selfish man that has no introspection at all. 

Cheating is wrong, period. I don’t want to hear ANYTHING about it being ok, or justified. He is such a bad person he has such a lack of character. This is the same concept of... blaming a rape victim because she went to the bar alone in a short skirt. 

What I hate is that just because a person isn’t perfect, maybe even a bad person (his wife), it doesn’t make anything ok. It doesn’t make what he did ok, at all. 

And the fact that this was his response... if he isn’t getting fed at home he’s going to go out... that is so infuriating to me. I have no words.


----------



## Girl_power

And the way he posts!!! It’s almost like he’s proud of what he has done. Like he’s bragging!!! It’s insane to me. And then he asks women... don’t you ever wonder why your spouse cheats on you? I mean come on!!! His attitude is so toxic and so messed up that I actually think he might be mentally ill.


----------



## Girl_power

But he’s a little scared piece of crap that finally feels “empowered” which is why he is boasting on this forum. Like haha I showed her!! What the heck, this is your wife dude. 

His whole post is so messed up on so many levels.


----------



## Dave.Tea

Girl_power said:


> But he’s a little scared piece of crap that finally feels “empowered” which is why he is boasting on this forum. Like haha I showed her!! What the heck, this is your wife dude.
> 
> His whole post is so messed up on so many levels.


Why Thankyou for your positive input & very inaccurate character assassination....mentally ill ?? Low Blow.


----------



## Lance Mannion

Girl_power said:


> I’m not disagreeing about that.
> 
> I meant the fact that he’s an entitled, overly confident, remorseless, selfish man that has no introspection at all.
> 
> Cheating is wrong, period. I don’t want to hear ANYTHING about it being ok, or justified. He is such a bad person he has such a lack of character. This is the same concept of... blaming a rape victim because she went to the bar alone in a short skirt.
> 
> What I hate is that just because a person isn’t perfect, maybe even a bad person (his wife), it doesn’t make anything ok. It doesn’t make what he did ok, at all.
> 
> And the fact that this was his response... if he isn’t getting fed at home he’s going to go out... that is so infuriating to me. I have no words.


A teenager murders his parents and then begs the judge for mercy because he's an orphan. The OP has too much bravado in regards to this situation especially because he's a cheater.

It would be one thing for the lack of sex to be a marriage-killer leading to lots of hurt feelings and then to divorce. After the divorce, which she didn't want but she also didn't budge on the sex life, it would be understandable for him to then say he's now going to get it elsewhere. His hurt feelings and pride can be expressed from an honorable position. A cheater though doesn't get to stand on a soapbox and cast aspersions on his wife. Whatever her sins may have been, he's far surpassed them and people telling him that is probably making him "uncomfortable." No one sees himself as the villain in the play of his life.


----------



## aine

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Oh, you are going to get lots of 2X4's here. You have your own agency. The right thing to do would be to sit down with your wife and tell her how you feel and make a decision as to what to do next. YOu wife probably knew that you were not really committed to the marriage, (which is now obvious as when the going got tough you went out and ****ed someone else!). Are you really so insecure that you need someone else to be in your life.
YOu have alot of deep work to do cause I bet your first marriage went that way, your second one and I guarantee if you marry again to your so called child sweet heart it will also end the same way cause you have to do lots of inner work to be better man.
Cheating regardless of the circumstances says so much more about your character than your wife's. So many people have been in ****ty marriages and their default position is not to go out and cheat. Shame on you!


----------



## aine

Dave.Tea said:


> At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions....how many times do you NEED telling that this relationship is over, before you need to be pro-active ? My friend of thirty plus years died of a brain tumour last year....I’m not going to waste “my dash” (If you know what that means?) anymore


So if that is the case, why are you on here?


----------



## jlg07

Dave.Tea said:


> Umm....how far do you need to be pushed towards the edge, before you decide it’s easier just to jump ?
> ...
> ...
> I was not prepared to live in a sexless, unhappy, sham of a marriage anymore (it’s not the 1940’s anymore !) this relationship was way over a long time before my “indiscretion”....it was nothing more than a piece of paper & a ring.....it resembled two housemates not a married couple.


What you should have done is JUMPED to a lawyer and gotten divorced, not jump between the legs of another.
That is what folks are saying here. There is no doubt that your marriage was crap, we all get that. The problem is you took the "easy" path because you wanted to.
Nobody expects you to live in a bad marriage here -- AT ALL. But you should have ENDED the marriage before starting another relationship.
That is the point folks are trying to get across to you, and yes your WIFE has every right to state that to you also.

At the very least, you should have sat down with your wife, tell her it's over and for her to get a lawyer as YOU were going to get one. Your long-time friend would have still be around after the divorce.


----------



## ConanHub

Girl_power said:


> And this is why I hate men.


LoL!


----------



## TXTrini

Girl_power said:


> And this is why I hate men.


Don't be a hater, gf. Just ignore little ****s who flaunt this attitude.


----------



## aine

Dave.Tea said:


> And....what reaction do you think it would have generated in the ladies dept ? I would have been seen as the c#nt from hell ! And there are ladies commenting on here ? Would you have preferred me to be more “misogynistic” with my description ? “Yeah so I f#cked this other woman, get over it *****es ?”
> [/QU@Dave.Tea.


There are many women posting here as well as men, you are getting the same message from both genders, what does that tell you?

Incidentally, why are you on here, looking for absolution for your ****ty behavior? A man's character shines through his actions, your STBXW probably sussed out yours some time back.

Some people in your situation (i.e. coming out of marriage number 2, incidentally what happened in marriage number 1?) would start to wonder is this a time for self-reflection, is it something I am doing wrong, maybe I need to work on myself? Rather than rush of to number 3,. She wont save you, guaranteed if you don't do the inner work that is needed. You are in your 50s it is not too late to become a better man


----------



## aine

Dave.Tea said:


> And....what reaction do you think it would have generated in the ladies dept ? I would have been seen as the c#nt from hell ! And there are ladies commenting on here ? Would you have preferred me to be more “misogynistic” with my description ? “Yeah so I f#cked this other woman, get over it *****es ?”


BTW nice language for a prick in his 50s, now I know why you are moving to potentially marriage no 3.


----------



## aine

Dave.Tea said:


> And...my SBTX made a vow to ME, if you hold importance on the basis of a vow ?
> Is her behaviour acceptable as a “wife” ? Not in my eyes ! Respect is a two way street...give it out, you get it back....


And you made a vow to her to love and honor her, ****ing someone else is not exactly what was meant by the vows, so double standards mate!


----------



## Diana7

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


I agree with her, you could have at least waited. As for why men(or women) have affairs, its because they have no moral values, character or integrity. That applies to those they have sex with as well.


----------



## MovingFrwrd

Dave.Tea said:


> And...my SBTX made a vow to ME, if you hold importance on the basis of a vow ?
> Is her behaviour acceptable as a “wife” ? Not in my eyes ! Respect is a two way street...give it out, you get it back....


And you made a vow to her. It's obvious per your posts you have high tendency towards narcissistic behavior as you cannot accept responsibility for your actions. Her behavior is not an excuse for your choices.


----------



## notmyjamie

Funny...my ex is gay. I wasn't "fed" for MANY years. I never cheated...and believe me, I was starving. Still didn't cheat. When my kids were older and divorce was a more reasonable choice I divorced and then found someone new. And I'm enjoying my sex life immensely now...it's not stained with my lack of honor and integrity. I can hold my head up high and enjoy my new life. And I am enjoying it, believe me.


----------



## MJJEAN

Lance Mannion said:


> I doubt she vowed at your wedding to put out for you.
> 
> You're desperately trying to find a way to sooth your ego and you're going to ridiculous lengths to do it. If you're not happy with your sex life, and thus the state of your marriage, deception and betrayal are not the APPROPRIATE responses. You confront the problem head on, end the marriage, and then go screw around as a free agent. You are wholly in the wrong here.


I disagree. Marriage is a sexual relationship. Sex is actually in the vows. "To have and to hold" is a polite euphemism for sex. Sex and marriage are even legally linked. Not having sex, failure to consummate, is grounds for annulment as if the marriage never even existed. So, yes, she did vow to have a sexual relationship with her husband.

She also repeatedly told OP she wants out, it's over, she wants a divorce, etc. Then she literally abandoned him in a strange place and her parting words seem to indicate she, yet again, was going to end the marriage So, Dave.Tea took her latest end the marriage threat seriously and acted as if the marriage was over.

On her end, she should have known better than to repeatedly claim she wanted out and it was over and then expect her husband to just carry on as normal. Eventually, you pull that crap enough, and the other guy will take you seriously.

On his end, he should have made clear to her that this time was different, he was actually done, and going to be conducting himself as a single man while awaiting the divorce.



Dave.Tea said:


> The only logistical response ! Thankyou !


Your wife likely figured you would treat her marriage ending statements as marriage ending statements in the past. She says it, nothing changes. By having an affair, you took her at her words this time and she's shocked by that. She shouldn't be, but I understand why she is.

You'd both been playing this end the marriage, but not really, game for so long she had every reason to believe it wasn't serious this time, either, and that you'd continue on as you have been. You should have made clear to her verbally and maybe in writing that this time it was really over before getting nekkid with anyone else.


----------



## SunCMars

> LosingHim said:
> So, let me get this straight? It's your wifes fault you cheated?





Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


You may have reality on your side, and a healthy dose of _tough love_ for those whom you rub belly's with, but sympathy gotten from others will always remain thin.

*Nobody likes consequences, even those, they themselves, bring on.*

To get a general populace's OK on finding love outside one's marriage, requires the BS to be an axe-murderer, and one now sitting in Gaol
Or, the equivalent.

Societal rules are rules, the masses are fearful of 'officially' lowering them, even in special cases.

Not that I blame them, civilization is teetering, as it is.


----------



## LosingHim

Literally NO ONE is stating that you should stay in the marriage. No one is saying that you don’t have free choice to leave. No one is saying your wife is a saint. No one is saying you didn’t “suffer” in the marriage.


99% of the people are saying to own your own choices. Your marriage was crap. The answer is to LEAVE. Everyone is in support of you leaving. The answer is not to place yourself between the legs of another woman and then say it’s your wifes fault you did so. Unhappy? Go. Miserable? Go.


The problem is, you made a choice, but you won’t accept you made that choice. Like I said, I always believe there are catalysts to cheating, things that may make it seem a little more acceptable. But at the end of the day – the CHOICE YOU MAKE is not the fault of the woman you cheated on.


I cheated on my husband. I too can have a gazillion reasons WHY I cheated. If I’ve gotta put a name to it, it was many years of not being paid attention to, not feeling loved, being ignored, etc. and by golly, yep I got caught up in a moment that someone was paying attention to me in all the ways that I didn’t feel like I got for years. At the heart of all of it though – me cheating was a personal, selfish, disgusting CHOICE. Because if it was as bad as I thought it was – I should have left before cheating ever became my choice.


----------



## SunCMars

Dave.Tea said:


> And...my SBTX made a vow to ME, if you hold importance on the basis of a vow ?
> Is her behaviour acceptable as a “wife” ? Not in my eyes ! Respect is a two way street...give it out, you get it back....


As a Martian, I appreciate your fiery passion.
But, no one loves the Grockel.

Woman, on the other hand, want that passion to be toned down, and delivered lovingly.

On giving back, she seems to be able to do that quite nicely, thank you. 

You married your match. You fiercely rub against each other and light each other off, just dandy.
Your marriage has gone all to pot, just end it, then bob's your uncle.

Until, the next match.


----------



## lifeistooshort

*Speaking as a moderator:

Let's avoid the personal attacks and name calling. Don't get yourself sent on vacation from TAM.*

Speaking as a poster: OP, your problem is that you took a legitimate gripe with your wife and displayed poor character by finding another person of poor character to screw.

Only people of poor character screw married people.

You know this, you just don't have the backbone to own. Man up, own your ****ty choices, and file for divorce....then you can do you with a clear conscience.


----------



## SunCMars

Girl_power said:


> And this is why I hate men.


A big reveal. 

Putting _hate_ next to_ women_ would never pass my lips.

Many women are aggressive and are selfish beings equal to any man's cruel behavior.

I do agree, men, in general, are more aggressive. 

Testosterone is not a kindly elixir. It was instilled in men to survive in the wild, in the former jungles, and on the battlefields in the world (still).

Civilization has (seemingly) changed, but our biology has not.

Sparingly, save hate for individuals, not for the masses of penis owners.


----------



## SunCMars

Ah, the _Men's Clubhouse._

The clubs are at arms reach.

In the end, I love free speech, love free thinking, however it flows.

.................................................................

That said: Free speech is an oxymoron. 

It has its price, as some speakers get clubbed for employing it.

Such is life in civilization.


----------



## GC1234

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


I think that if some women were made aware that their husbands were upset by the lack of sex, etc etc. they might think about it. But it's usually both parties that are wrong. There's the one who sweeps all of it under the rug for the sake of working on the marriage. There's the one who expects the partner to be the mind reader and 'know' that something is wrong. I also find that some men don't take their wives complaints seriously until it's too late. So both men and women can NOT think about why their spouses had affairs. 

Now, I'm not judging you at all, you did what you needed to do to get your needs met in a marriage that was failing anyway. It is what it is. I guess it can be considered 'going against the vows and immoral', but that's your call. HOWEVER, I think if you are considering a relationship at some point with this blast from the past, please work on yourself first. You need better communication skills at the very least, and to be able to establish clear boundaries of what you will and will not accept in a relationship, and this takes a lot of time.


----------



## SunCMars

aine said:


> BTW nice language for a prick in his 50s, now I know why you are moving to potentially marriage no 3.


Please, 2020, end soon!

This thread is representative of it.
I am feeling the burn ot it.....still.

2021, I fear, will be more of the same.
Same scenario on steroids.

We are like bugs in a shaken jar, ugh!

This is the plan.


----------



## pastasauce79

Your marriage has been brain (and sex) dead for a long time. You both haven't had the courage to pull the plug.

Personally, I don't blame you for looking for love in the wrong places or times. Your relationship was dead anyway. I'm surprised your wife cared about it since she didn't have the guts to tell you face to face she was leaving you at the hotel. I guess you bruised her ego and that's why she's hurt. 

You did what you did. Now what are you going to do in order to move forward?


----------



## Thumos

I'm a man. Men have affairs for the same reason women do: Because they want it, they like it, they thought they could get away with it. 

You could have been honest and divorced first. People do it all the time.

Quit blaming others for your ****ty choices and then seeking validation on the internet for your transgressive actions.


----------



## C.C. says ...

SunCMars said:


> As a Martian, I appreciate your fiery passion.
> But, no one loves the Grockel.


😁


----------



## Imperfections

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Affair or no affair...the blame RARELY only ever lies with one person.
However, there are certain etiquettes that would be nice if people followed...


----------



## Imperfections

SpinyNorman said:


> You wanted to know what women think about, so you posted in the Men's Clubhouse.


Maybe he wanted to know what men think about what women think about..ever thunk about that?


----------



## Cletus

Imperfections said:


> Maybe he wanted to know what men think about what women think about..ever thunk about that?


What women think about? Utterly inscrutable. Or, in the words of Steve from "Coupling" - 

"Why in god's ass do we need potpourri? Looks like breakfast, smells like your aunt. "


----------



## Imperfections

Girl_power said:


> And this is why I hate men.


Oy! I haven’t done anything!


----------



## BlueWoman

I know why my ex husband cheated on me. He had poor boundaries and stunted maturity. It didn't matter what I did. The moment I expected him to step up and be an equal partner he started looking elsewhere. He's still riding the coattails of a woman. It's just not me this time.


----------



## Imperfections

Girl_power said:


> I’m not disagreeing about that.
> 
> I meant the fact that he’s an entitled, overly confident, remorseless, selfish man that has no introspection at all.
> 
> Cheating is wrong, period. I don’t want to hear ANYTHING about it being ok, or justified. He is such a bad person he has such a lack of character. This is the same concept of... blaming a rape victim because she went to the bar alone in a short skirt.
> 
> What I hate is that just because a person isn’t perfect, maybe even a bad person (his wife), it doesn’t make anything ok. It doesn’t make what he did ok, at all.
> 
> And the fact that this was his response... if he isn’t getting fed at home he’s going to go out... that is so infuriating to me. I have no words.


I think like many people who come to the forums, he knows he did a ****ty thing and is looking for affirmation to feel better about it.

Women will cut his balls off. And men probably also (because women will otherwise cut their balls off for siding with him).
Be careful with the balls, is my advice. And next time, finish the first dump first, before you take the next one. It’s cleaner this way.
(Sorry, this didn’t turn out very tastefully.)

But to be honest, I don’t think it matters all that much. It seems both people knew it was over, more or less.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Imperfections said:


> I think like many people who come to the forums, he knows he did a ****ty thing and is looking for affirmation to feel better about it.
> 
> Women will cut his balls off. And men probably also (because women will otherwise cut their balls off for siding with him).
> Be careful with the balls, is my advice. And next time, finish the first dump first, before you take the next one. It’s cleaner this way.
> (Sorry, this didn’t turn out very tastefully.)
> 
> But to be honest, I don’t think it matters all that much. It seems both people knew it was over, more or less.


All the more reason to act with integrity and end the marriage, then you don't have to live with the fact that you have poor character. If you both know its over then it shouldn't be such a big deal.

I speak from experience. I had already decided I was done with my ex when my current bf asked me out (he hadn't realized I was married). I turned him down and said nothing of the state of my marriage....only said that I was married. He left me alone after that.

Once we split he found out and asked me again and I said ok. It's been a couple of years and I can live knowing we both had integrity.

Unlike my scummy ex.....but I digress.


----------



## ConanHub

aine said:


> And you made a vow to her to love and honor her, ****ing someone else is not exactly what was meant by the vows, so double standards mate!


While I don't agree with starting a new relationship without ending the previous one, his wife effectively ended it first.

I wouldn't have even come home after she left me at the hotel.


----------



## ConanHub

Imperfections said:


> Oy! I haven’t done anything!


Oh, I've done plenty but I'm still LoL!


----------



## NextTimeAround

I know the general reasons why someone strays. So I'm more interested in the specifics of it. Why choose this AP and not another? Why does he / she tolerate behavior around the AP that he doesn't tolerate around me? And so, on.


----------



## LisaDiane

sokillme said:


> Spoken like someone with two failed marriages.


This kind of hurts...I don't think this is an accurate indicator of integrity...

Or maybe it is...


----------



## LisaDiane

Dave.Tea said:


> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


You are trying to generalize about something that is too varied and subjective to be measured that way.

But the real issue you have is that your wife has shown over and over that she is NOT someone who ever questions her actions or takes responsibility for her contribution to anything negative that has happened in your relationship (and you sound almost the same).
You aren't going to get ANYWHERE examining what happened through this lens.

You need to stop arguing and trying to stay on your high horse, and put your failed marriage behind you and be happy.


----------



## Mezman

Hello all, 

Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce. 

Now I ask this because, marriage is a commitment, however, disregarding the religious aspect, which I don't subscribe to but know a lot of folk do. 

If he had called his wife after the hotel incident and informed her it was over. Should he have to wait a predetermined amount of time before embarking on another relationship? 

It just seems to me that surely the intention to never return is more important than the issuing of a document that takes different amounts of time to obtain depending on your geographical location.

Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?

Sorry if this thread jacking


----------



## sokillme

LisaDiane said:


> This kind of hurts...I don't think this is an accurate indicator of integrity...
> 
> Or maybe it is...


Nope that refers to this -



> At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions..


Not how many times he has been married, the idea that you get to an age where you don't question the choices you are making especially when they don't work out. 

Both my parents were married more then once. I don't think they had good pickers, my Dad actually did but he was too interested in moving on, but my Mom didn't. But in general they are both have integrity,


----------



## sokillme

I am not going to get into what kind of person you are, you are the sum of your actions. 

What I am going to say is just from a selfish point of view, when you cheat you hurt yourself because you her hurt your honor, your integrity. You disrespect yourself because you don't keep your word, and therefore prove that you can not be trusted. 

Will you tell the next women you meet that you cheated on the last one? What if she asks, will you lie to her? 

Don't cheat. Be honest and live honestly, hold people accountable, but first hold yourself accountable. 

That kind of thinking leads to a good life, two people who think that way will have a great marriage, because the both will do the right thing which means they both will try for each other.


----------



## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> This kind of hurts...I don't think this is an accurate indicator of integrity...
> 
> Or maybe it is...


Its really not. I know a lovely guy whose wives both cheated on him.


----------



## Diana7

Mezman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.
> 
> Now I ask this because, marriage is a commitment, however, disregarding the religious aspect, which I don't subscribe to but know a lot of folk do.
> 
> If he had called his wife after the hotel incident and informed her it was over. Should he have to wait a predetermined amount of time before embarking on another relationship?
> 
> It just seems to me that surely the intention to never return is more important than the issuing of a document that takes different amounts of time to obtain depending on your geographical location.
> 
> Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?
> 
> Sorry if this thread jacking


He was still married and still living with his spouse.There was no divorce going on. .


----------



## sokillme

Mezman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.
> 
> Now I ask this because, marriage is a commitment, however, disregarding the religious aspect, which I don't subscribe to but know a lot of folk do.
> 
> If he had called his wife after the hotel incident and informed her it was over. Should he have to wait a predetermined amount of time before embarking on another relationship?
> 
> It just seems to me that surely the intention to never return is more important than the issuing of a document that takes different amounts of time to obtain depending on your geographical location.
> 
> Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?
> 
> Sorry if this thread jacking


Read this and put yourself, and try to imagine what it would be like to go through this.

Basically it comes down to treating everyone with dignity and respect. You don't do that when you cheat.


----------



## Thumos

Mezman said:


> a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.


When you enter into a monogamous commitment you don’t reserve for yourself the right to change the terms of the deal without informing the other party. Taking away a faithful spouse’s autonomy and agency over their bodies and their lives is unethical from a purely secular standpoint. Adultery is abuse - it is the deepest betrayal one can carry out against another, because it targets the one person in the world who trusts you implicitly and has made a lifetime commitment to you. It exposes faithful partners to life threatening diseases, even with “safe sex” without their knowledge. A faithful partner should be given the common courtesy of deciding if they want to remain married to someone who wishes to have sex with other people. If you are in a monogamous commitment with a vow you took, be a man and honor it. If you want to have sex with other women, divorce and go do so honestly and transparently. Nearly every human culture, past and present, the world over, finds adultery to be anathema for good reason. It is a toxic transgression that destroys lives, wrecks families and depletes social capital.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> I am not going to get into what kind of person you are, you are the sum of your actions.
> 
> What I am going to say is just from a selfish point of view, when you cheat you hurt yourself because you her hurt your honor, your integrity. You disrespect yourself because you don't keep your word, and therefore prove that you can not be trusted.
> 
> Will you tell the next women you meet that you cheated on the last one? What if she asks, will you lie to her?
> 
> Don't cheat. Be honest and live honestly, hold people accountable, but first hold yourself accountable.
> 
> That kind of thinking leads to a good life, two people who think that way will have a great marriage, because the both will do the right thing which means they both will try for each other.


He will say, well my marriage was really over, which is what many cheaters say of course.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> While I don't agree with starting a new relationship without ending the previous one, his wife effectively ended it first.
> 
> I wouldn't have even come home after she left me at the hotel.


She may have acted badly but the marriage was still intact.


----------



## Thumos

Mezman said:


> Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?


Irrelevant question.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> She may have acted badly but the marriage was still intact.


Maybe for you but not for me. If my wife did something that atrocious, I would never come home.

She would have been served papers and I wouldn't have spoken to her again unless it was required by law.


----------



## Lance Mannion

Mezman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.


Two reasons.
1.) Enforcing social norms. Anytime you loosen boundaries you make the next boundary that much easier to cross. Slippery slope. 
2.) There is something about betrayal which is a soul-killer for a lot of betrayed, EVEN when they know a divorce is on the horizon.

If you could find a way to measure emotional pain with a gauge, like we do a volume of water, and compared the pain arising from a divorce followed by the realization that the former spouse is with another to the pain of being not yet divorced and realizing that the spouse is with another, the latter is somehow more painful, there seems to be something in the brain which allows events in life to moderate pain. Logically the two scenarios should produce no difference, if you know divorce is inevitable, then what the hell is the difference, why wait? Logic doesn't seem to be quite enough to perform that pain moderation trick.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Maybe for you but not for me. If my wife did something that atrocious, I would never come home.
> 
> She would have been served papers and I wouldn't have spoken to her again unless it was required by law.


You would still be married for the months it took for the divorce to go through. The OP has never even served her with divorce papers and is still living with her.


----------



## ConanHub

Mezman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.
> 
> Now I ask this because, marriage is a commitment, however, disregarding the religious aspect, which I don't subscribe to but know a lot of folk do.
> 
> If he had called his wife after the hotel incident and informed her it was over. Should he have to wait a predetermined amount of time before embarking on another relationship?
> 
> It just seems to me that surely the intention to never return is more important than the issuing of a document that takes different amounts of time to obtain depending on your geographical location.
> 
> Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?
> 
> Sorry if this thread jacking


Yeah. The stupid cow ended it at the hotel for sure.

I would have never gone back and had her served as soon as possible and avoided a serious relationship for a while.

I don't think the OP was that out of line however.


----------



## Mezman

Thumos said:


> When you enter into a monogamous commitment you don’t reserve for yourself the right to change the terms of the deal without informing the other party. Taking away a faithful spouse’s autonomy and agency over their bodies and their lives is unethical from a purely secular standpoint. Adultery is abuse - it is the deepest betrayal one can carry out against another, because it targets the one person in the world who trusts you implicitly and has made a lifetime commitment to you. It exposes faithful partners to life threatening diseases, even with “safe sex” without their knowledge. A faithful partner should be given the common courtesy of deciding if they want to remain married to someone who wishes to have sex with other people. If you are in a monogamous commitment with a vow you took, be a man and honor it. If you want to have sex with other women, divorce and go do so honestly and transparently. Nearly every human culture, past and present, the world over, finds adultery to be anathema for good reason. It is a toxic transgression that destroys lives, wrecks families and depletes social capital.


Agreed, but you didn't answer my question and possibly I have asked it in a clumsy fashion, but I asked if he had informed his wife it was over, why are so many advocating that divorce needs to come before a new relationship.

If you are done with a relationship why does the legal aspect need to be resolved before it is morally correct to embark on another relationship. Especially when the process varies so much depending on geographical location?


----------



## Lance Mannion

Mezman said:


> Agreed, but you didn't answer my question and possibly I have asked it in a clumsy fashion, but I asked if he had informed his wife it was over, why are so many advocating that divorce needs to come before a new relationship.
> 
> If you are done with a relationship why does the legal aspect need to be resolved before it is morally correct to embark on another relationship. Especially when the process varies so much depending on geographical location?


There is a "soften the blow" aspect to the "divorce -----> New Partner" sequence that doesn't exist in the "New Partner ----> Divorce" sequence.


----------



## LisaDiane

sokillme said:


> Read this and put yourself, and try to imagine what it would be like to go through this.
> 
> Basically it comes down to treating everyone with dignity and respect. You don't do that when you cheat.


That site is painful to be on!!!!


----------



## LisaDiane

sokillme said:


> Not how many times he has been married, the idea that you get to an age where you don't question the choices you are making especially when they don't work out.
> 
> Both my parents were married more then once. I don't think they had good pickers, my Dad actually did but he was too interested in moving on, but my Mom didn't. But in general they are both have integrity,


Are you sure that you didn't mean that having two divorces showed a tendancy for that person to be self-serving...?


----------



## Mezman

Lance Mannion said:


> There is a "soften the blow" aspect to the "divorce -----> New Partner" sequence that doesn't exist in the "New Partner ----> Divorce" sequence.


But this where I can't follow your logic, I am willing to accept that it is probably due to my views on marriage being nothing more than a social norm. 

It just seems that if two people were cohabiting for an equal number of years this guy wouldn't have copped half as much as he has. It seems to me that marriage is viewed as something more than people who choose to cohabit. 

If they are of equal standing, how long should one be expected to wait before dating in the case of the latter. In addition, is it only the sexual aspect that is in bad taste, would a close friendship with a single other of the opposite sex be viewed in a similar way?


----------



## Lance Mannion

Mezman said:


> But this where I can't follow your logic, I am willing to accept that it is probably due to my views on marriage being nothing more than a social norm.
> 
> It just seems that if two people were cohabiting for an equal number of years this guy wouldn't have copped half as much as he has. It seems to me that marriage is viewed as something more than people who choose to cohabit.
> 
> If they are of equal standing, how long should one be expected to wait before dating in the case of the latter. In addition, is it only the sexual aspect that is in bad taste, would a close friendship with a single other of the opposite sex be viewed in a similar way?


Compare two break-ups.

1.) We need to split up, we argue too much and want different things in life.
2.) We need to split up, I've found a better woman than you.

It's almost a script in break-ups for the dumped partner to ask "Is there someone else?"

There is this social norm enforcement at work. Look at cinema and TV, most folks who have been on the receiving end of infidelity will probably tell you that when they see it depicted on screen that they don't actually recognize the authenticity of was is being played out, the betrayed spouse takes the news about the same as the news that their favorite coffee cup broke on the floor. This leads to a normalization of infidelity because "Look, it;s just like a broken coffee cup" so what's the big deal. Meanwhile, people have their emotional lives wrecked, many have life-long trust issues and are fearful of placing themselves in a relationship where they can be exposed to that hurt again. So how do you do your part to enforce social norms, you enforce them when you can.


----------



## Mezman

Lance Mannion said:


> Compare two break-ups.
> 
> 1.) We need to split up, we argue too much and want different things in life.
> 2.) We need to split up, I've found a better woman than you.
> 
> It's almost a script in break-ups for the dumped partner to ask "Is there someone else?"
> 
> There is this social norm enforcement at work. Look at cinema and TV, most folks who have been on the receiving end of infidelity will probably tell you that when they see it depicted on screen that they don't actually recognize the authenticity of was is being played out, the betrayed spouse takes the news about the same as the news that their favorite coffee cup broke on the floor. This leads to a normalization of infidelity because "Look, it;s just like a broken coffee cup" so what's the big deal. Meanwhile, people have their emotional lives wrecked, many have life-long trust issues and are fearful of placing themselves in a relationship where they can be exposed to that hurt again. So how do you do your part to enforce social norms, you enforce them when you can.


You must think me really stupid at this point, but I just don't understand. Its like your saying that you need to check in with your ex to see if it won't hurt if you move on. 

Infidelity by definition is a breach of trust, but if you have stated outright that things are over. Then there can be no infidelity in the case of cohabitation couples. Then in the case of married couples it is simply a case of dissolving the legal part. 

I want to make it clear that I understand that there is a moral obligation to not make relationship breakdowns more painful than is necessary, but at what point does your obligation to your ex end and your obligation to your own wellbeing begin?


----------



## Lance Mannion

Mezman said:


> I want to make it clear that I understand that there is a moral obligation to not make relationship breakdowns more painful than is necessary, but at what point does your obligation to your ex end and your obligation to your own wellbeing begin?


Sunlight and transparency. Know your mind, communicate with your spouse that the marriage is over, then move on with your life.

There seem to be frequent tales told of women (more than men) who get caught in infidelity and report "but in my mind the relationship was already over" much to the surprise of the husband who thought he was still married and committed to her.


----------



## Diana7

Mezman said:


> You must think me really stupid at this point, but I just don't understand. Its like your saying that you need to check in with your ex to see if it won't hurt if you move on.
> 
> Infidelity by definition is a breach of trust, but if you have stated outright that things are over. Then there can be no infidelity in the case of cohabitation couples. Then in the case of married couples it is simply a case of dissolving the legal part.
> 
> I want to make it clear that I understand that there is a moral obligation to not make relationship breakdowns more painful than is necessary, but at what point does your obligation to your ex end and your obligation to your own wellbeing begin?


You wait till you are divorced, its not hard.


----------



## Diana7

Mezman said:


> Agreed, but you didn't answer my question and possibly I have asked it in a clumsy fashion, but I asked if he had informed his wife it was over, why are so many advocating that divorce needs to come before a new relationship.
> 
> If you are done with a relationship why does the legal aspect need to be resolved before it is morally correct to embark on another relationship. Especially when the process varies so much depending on geographical location?


For me I would say its partly because the vast majority of people simply arent emotionally ready to jump straight into a new relationship while still married, and partly because you are still a married person till the divorce is done. The OP hasnt even bothered to end his marriage. They are still living together, as far as I know the divorce isnt even started. I suspect that if he hasnt met this women they would stay together for longer. Its not a question of him just informing his wife that its over, not that he even had the decency to do that, its legally and properly ending one marriage before beginning another relationship. At least properly separating.


----------



## Mezman

Diana7 said:


> You wait till you are divorced, its not hard.


Im sorry but with comments like this, you nullify all credibility as a rational and intelligent person.

Perhaps if you were to read lance's posts you would see first hand how someone can evaluate what someone is asking and respond in a way that attempts to present a situation from a different point of view for the benefit of the asker.


----------



## Diana7

Mezman said:


> Im sorry but with comments like this, you nullify all credibility as a rational and intelligent person.
> 
> Perhaps if you were to read lance's posts you would see first hand how someone can evaluate what someone is asking and respond in a way that attempts to present a situation from a different point of view for the benefit of the asker.


read my above post.


----------



## Imperfections

Mezman said:


> how long should one be expected to wait before dating in the case of the latter.


Until you get the ok from people on marriage...I mean, divorce forums.
I think you answered your own question earlier: it depends if you view marriage as a social construct/arrangement or a contract before God. 
My view is, if both treat each other like pieces of  nobody gets to take the high moral ground.


----------



## Imperfections

Lance Mannion said:


> Compare two break-ups.
> 
> 1.) We need to split up, we argue too much and want different things in life.
> 2.) We need to split up, I've found a better woman than you.


Just because somebody says 1., doesn’t mean 2. won’t apply.
Most of the time, it does. Even if they haven’t slept together yet. People generally are too scared or lazy to leave (or do anything about a crappy situation), unless there’s a viable plan B.
Unfortunately that’s human nature. Uncertainty is scary.
Whether they touched each other’s genitals or not is just a formality. But if it helps one feel like they preserved their integrity by abstaining, that’s perfectly valid too.


----------



## Married but Happy

Whether cohabiting or married, you have a moral obligation to inform your partner that the relationship is over before dating others. If you don't, it's cheating. IMO, if you've informed them, divorce (if married) becomes a legal formality and you can begin moving on immediately.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I agree. And I think the reason a lot of people don't do it is they want to keep the spouse on hand for one reason or another as long as they can and juggle two people. 

But also, I suppose if it reaches the point in your marriage where you no longer intend ever to have sex with your spouse again, you might ought to let them know that too, and discuss options.


----------



## RandomDude

No excuse for cheating, period.

If the marriage is fked could have easily just told your missus it's done and THEN move on. She would know exactly where she stands at that point, and no, I wouldn't consider that cheating even though 'technically married' because that is still being honest with your spouse. Instead you went behind her back so nope, it is what it is.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Diana7 said:


> She may have acted badly but the marriage was still intact.


I wiuld not say intact, but he ahould have filed first.


----------



## RebuildingMe

LisaDiane said:


> This kind of hurts...I don't think this is an accurate indicator of integrity...
> 
> Or maybe it is...


No, it isn’t


----------



## LisaDiane

Divinely Favored said:


> I wiuld not say intact, but he ahould have filed first.


I have to disagree about this generally -- I may not "file" for divorce for a LOOOOONG time, depending on how my separation goes, and how compliant my STBX will be...and I have NO intention of avoiding sexual relationships until my legal marriage is dissolved.
And I don't think there is anything morally WRONG with that.


----------



## LisaDiane

RebuildingMe said:


> No, it isn’t


THANK YOU!


----------



## Divinely Favored

LisaDiane said:


> I have to disagree about this generally -- I may not "file" for divorce for a LOOOOONG time, depending on how my separation goes, and how compliant my STBX will be...and I have NO intention of avoiding sexual relationships until my legal marriage is dissolved.
> And I don't think there is anything morally WRONG with that.


Did not say it had to be dissolved. Just filed for. Showing the other spouse intent to dissolve the marriage.


----------



## LisaDiane

Divinely Favored said:


> Did not say it had to be dissolved. Just filed for. Showing the other spouse intent to dissolve the marriage.


I understand why you think that's an important boundary, but it's just not the same for ME.

TELLING HIM I'm done makes my intent VERY clear.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


 OK, fine, but close out your tab at the first restaurant before you move on to another.


----------



## Thumos

Does duty exist?


----------



## Thumos

Mezman said:


> but I asked if he had informed his wife it was over, why are so many advocating that divorce needs to come before a new relationship.


You’re asking about hypothetical that didn’t happen


----------



## MJJEAN

I think everyone is forgetting some key details here.





Dave.Tea said:


> For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms.
> 
> I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway !





Dave.Tea said:


> Three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”





Dave.Tea said:


> I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”





Dave.Tea said:


> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce.


 You don't get to deprive your spouse of a marital relationship for years, inform them you aren't interested in resuming a marital relationship because you didn't like it, anyway, tell them you want to split repeatedly, abandon them far from home, and expect ...well, anything, really.

She played stupid games and is crying foul because she won a stupid prize. 

Sure, OP could have informed her he was taking her seriously this time, but really she's got no room to whine about it.


----------



## TXTrini

Mezman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im new to the forum and have had my own issues, I would like to be educated on why this man has attracted so much vitriol? I think his conduct leaves a lot to be desired, but it seems a lot of the criticism seems to stem from the fact he had a sexual relationship with another before getting a divorce.
> 
> Now I ask this because, marriage is a commitment, however, disregarding the religious aspect, which I don't subscribe to but know a lot of folk do.
> 
> If he had called his wife after the hotel incident and informed her it was over. Should he have to wait a predetermined amount of time before embarking on another relationship?
> 
> It just seems to me that surely the intention to never return is more important than the issuing of a document that takes different amounts of time to obtain depending on your geographical location.
> 
> Also would he be given such a hard time if he were not married to this woman?
> 
> Sorry if this thread jacking


Cheating is cheating. You don't want to dodge ****, you don't do stuff to get it lobbed at you. Other people's actions are irrelevant. 


Thumos said:


> When you enter into a monogamous commitment you don’t reserve for yourself the right to change the terms of the deal without informing the other party. Taking away a faithful spouse’s autonomy and agency over their bodies and their lives is unethical from a purely secular standpoint. Adultery is abuse - it is the deepest betrayal one can carry out against another, because it targets the one person in the world who trusts you implicitly and has made a lifetime commitment to you. It exposes faithful partners to life threatening diseases, even with “safe sex” without their knowledge. A faithful partner should be given the common courtesy of deciding if they want to remain married to someone who wishes to have sex with other people. If you are in a monogamous commitment with a vow you took, be a man and honor it. If you want to have sex with other women, divorce and go do so honestly and transparently. Nearly every human culture, past and present, the world over, finds adultery to be anathema for good reason. It is a toxic transgression that destroys lives, wrecks families and depletes social capital.


This was eloquently written. 5 stars!


MJJEAN said:


> I think everyone is forgetting some key details here.
> 
> You don't get to deprive your spouse of a marital relationship for years, inform them you aren't interested in resuming a marital relationship because you didn't like it, anyway, tell them you want to split repeatedly, abandon them far from home, and expect ...well, anything, really.
> 
> She played stupid games and is crying foul because she won a stupid prize.
> 
> Sure, OP could have informed her he was taking her seriously this time, but really she's got no room to whine about it.


No-body forgot about the details or is excusing his wife's actions. Neither of them pulled the plug, they rode the merry-go-round of misery until he stepped out. 

His bravado flaunting his actions now as some sort of payback falls flat. To me, it reads that he was too scared to leave despite his wife's ill-treatment and is enjoying his "revenge", so it's hard for me to feel any empathy.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Thumos said:


> Does duty exist?


Only if you're the Queen.


----------



## ConanHub

NextTimeAround said:


> Only if you're the Queen.


Nice.😉


----------



## Mezman

Thumos said:


> You’re asking about hypothetical that didn’t happen


Yes, yes I am, well spotted there


----------



## Mezman

TXTrini said:


> Cheating is cheating. You don't want to dodge ****, you don't do stuff to get it lobbed at you. Other people's actions are irrelevant.


This is a nonsense, water is water, sun is sun?

There is a definition of cheating, which clearly mine differs from yours. If you inform your SO its over, regardless of being married or not. You are free to go about your business. Honesty is the key here, prior to anything else


----------



## MJJEAN

TXTrini said:


> Neither of them pulled the plug


I suppose that depends on POV. I think she pulled the plug when she left and the plug pulling was affirmed when he returned home.


----------



## RandomDude

MJJEAN said:


> Sure, OP could have informed her he was taking her seriously this time, but really she's got no room to whine about it.


She sure isn't a saint, and anyone would be justified to end the relationship, but it just doesn't excuse cheating - if it's over say it as it is, I just don't get why it's so difficult for some people like OP


----------



## Imperfections

Mezman said:


> This is a nonsense, water is water, sun is sun?
> 
> There is a definition of cheating, which clearly mine differs from yours. If you inform your SO its over, regardless of being married or not. You are free to go about your business. Honesty is the key here, prior to anything else


Water is only water if water agrees with your assessment.


----------



## Imperfections

RandomDude said:


> She sure isn't a saint, and anyone would be justified to end the relationship, but it just doesn't excuse cheating - if it's over say it as it is, I just don't get why it's so difficult for some people like OP


I am confused; is it the act itself that is causing people a certain cognitive dissonance?
Case 1: marriage is not great, husband meets a woman and one day tells his wife ‘it’s over’ out of the blue and same day has sex with said woman, but after he tells her
Case 2: marriage is ****, both husband and wife make it clear with their actions that neither are interested in continuing the marriage but neither explicitly say it is over (basically the OP’s case).

Is case 1 the more moral case? And husband is supposedly a POS in scenario 2?

I don’t understand: who are we to judge.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

LisaDiane said:


> I understand why you think that's an important boundary, but it's just not the same for ME.
> 
> TELLING HIM I'm done makes my intent VERY clear.


And that's my belief. 

I give folks agency for their own statements. 

In any discussion if it's said I'll take them at their word. Frees me up from thinking about what they really meant. It's not my responsibility to be an interpreter.

I can say I wouldn't wait for a piece of paper to say it's ok for me to live accordingly.


----------



## RandomDude

Imperfections said:


> I am confused; is it the act itself that is causing people a certain cognitive dissonance?
> Case 1: marriage is not great, husband meets a woman and one day tells his wife ‘it’s over’ out of the blue and same day has sex with said woman, but after he tells her
> Case 2: marriage is ****, both husband and wife make it clear with their actions that neither are interested in continuing the marriage but neither explicitly say it is over (basically the OP’s case).
> Is case 1 the more moral case? And husband is supposedly a POS in scenario 2?
> I don’t understand: who are we to judge.


Never called him a POS, the marriage is pretty much fked but he lost his moral ground with scenario 2 IMO. Scenario 1 may be a POS move in another scenario but I wouldn't consider that cheating as the cards were on the table. 
It may be more gray as others have mentioned but it is what it is.

Cheating is cheating, don't see any excuses for it, if a spouse feels a marriage is over it's only fair they free their spouse from any notion of fidelity as well so THEY can also move on.


----------



## In Absentia

Looks like the OP has left the building... not surprised. He should have know better...


----------



## MJJEAN

RandomDude said:


> She sure isn't a saint, and anyone would be justified to end the relationship, but it just doesn't excuse cheating - if it's over say it as it is, I just don't get why it's so difficult for some people like OP


Seems to me SHE said it was over and then cried foul when he acted like it was over.


----------



## RandomDude

MJJEAN said:


> Seems to me SHE said it was over and then cried foul when he acted like it was over.


Maybe, who knows what goes on in that marriage. Looks like he has left the building too so he can't clarify lol


----------



## In Absentia

I understand him, because I'm in the same situation, but telling his wife first would have been nice. That said, I'm not surprised he didn't.


----------



## TXTrini

Mezman said:


> This is a nonsense, water is water, sun is sun?
> 
> There is a definition of cheating, which clearly mine differs from yours. If you inform your SO its over, regardless of being married or not. You are free to go about your business. Honesty is the key here, prior to anything else


Your way or the highway eh? I read your thread. You really showed her eh, getting a gf before making a decision like an adult? 

Look, our principles and ethics obviously differ. 



MJJEAN said:


> I suppose that depends on POV. I think she pulled the plug when she left and the plug pulling was affirmed when he returned home.


Would you stand by this if your s/o did this?



Imperfections said:


> I am confused; is it the act itself that is causing people a certain cognitive dissonance?
> Case 1: marriage is not great, husband meets a woman and one day tells his wife ‘it’s over’ out of the blue and same day has sex with said woman, but after he tells her
> Case 2: marriage is ****, both husband and wife make it clear with their actions that neither are interested in continuing the marriage but neither explicitly say it is over (basically the OP’s case).
> 
> Is case 1 the more moral case? And husband is supposedly a POS in scenario 2?
> 
> I don’t understand: who are we to judge.


In my case, I am not judging him for wanting to get out of a bad marriage. He should have, she treated him terribly, however, he didn't do that. He took it in the butt like he always did and then one-upped her by compromising himself. That action to me is weak, tit-for-tat and one-upping. It was most definitely not admirable. 

What kept him from telling her she stepped way over the line, the marriage is over, I'm leaving. Then going about his life? I think people are questioning his ethics and lack of integrity. You can't understand why b/c yours are different. So here is where we agree to disagree and see why some people are more compatible than others.


----------



## TXTrini

Imperfections said:


> I am confused; is it the act itself that is causing people a certain cognitive dissonance?
> Case 1: marriage is not great, husband meets a woman and one day tells his wife ‘it’s over’ out of the blue and same day has sex with said woman, but after he tells her
> Case 2: marriage is ****, both husband and wife make it clear with their actions that neither are interested in continuing the marriage but neither explicitly say it is over (basically the OP’s case).
> 
> Is case 1 the more moral case? And husband is supposedly a POS in scenario 2?
> 
> I don’t understand: who are we to judge.


Both are unethical actions, case 1 is worse, b/c there's no smoke. People who can't communicate clearly, be honest really have no business getting involved in relationships. Buy a sex robot and call it good.


----------



## MJJEAN

TXTrini said:


> Would you stand by this if your s/o did this?


Yes. I try to own my **** as best I can. Honestly, if I behaved as this woman, I'd have no respect for him if he _didn't_.

I can't even see why she cares at all unless she's looking for a useless drama fix.. They haven't had sex in 3 years. Her choice. They haven't slept in the same bed in 3 years. Again, her choice. Then she faux ends the marriage (for the umpteenth time, while she abandons him at a hotel far from home. 

_She _ended the marriage and _she's_ pissed at _him_ for acting like the marriage is over? WTAF?


----------



## TXTrini

MJJEAN said:


> Yes. I try to own my **** as best I can. Honestly, if I behaved as this woman, I'd have no respect for him if he _didn't_.
> 
> I can't even see why she cares at all unless she's looking for a useless drama fix.. They haven't had sex in 3 years. Her choice. They haven't slept in the same bed in 3 years. Again, her choice. Then she faux ends the marriage (for the umpteenth time, while she abandons him at a hotel far from home.
> 
> _She _ended the marriage and _she's_ pissed at _him_ for acting like the marriage is over? WTAF?


I agree with your assessment of her actions, but two wrongs don't make a right. I'd have more respect if he filed for divorce before moving on and throwing it in her face. He allowed her to tarnish his integrity and make him "less", though the tone of his original post made me think they were well-suited to each other. Btw, I'd think the same if they swapped places. 

I pity the fool who takes up with either of them next!


----------



## MJJEAN

TXTrini said:


> I agree with your assessment of her actions, but two wrongs don't make a right.


And I don't see the wrong. She ended the marriage. He acted like the marriage was over. He came home and they started working out their divorce plans. So...what? He had sex with someone while awaiting a divorce filing? I don't see the wrong in that. The marriage was ended except for paperwork. Is he supposed to starve for years and then wait additional months/years to eat because..paperwork?


----------



## ConanHub

MJJEAN said:


> And I don't see the wrong. She ended the marriage. He acted like the marriage was over. He came home and they started working out their divorce plans. So...what? He had sex with someone while awaiting a divorce filing? I don't see the wrong in that. The marriage was ended except for paperwork. Is he supposed to starve for years and then wait additional months/years to eat because..paperwork?


I would wait until married again but I'm Christian and don't expect others to play by my rules.

I don't see this guy as being out of line myself.


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> And I don't see the wrong. She ended the marriage. He acted like the marriage was over. He came home and they started working out their divorce plans. So...what? He had sex with someone while awaiting a divorce filing? I don't see the wrong in that. The marriage was ended except for paperwork. Is he supposed to starve for years and then wait additional months/years to eat because..paperwork?


If the marriage was so terrible all those years then why didnt he end it? He waited till he had an affair then decided that he may now get a divorce. They are still married till the divorce is final, so whatever you think its still adultery.


----------



## TXTrini

MJJEAN said:


> And I don't see the wrong. She ended the marriage. He acted like the marriage was over. He came home and they started working out their divorce plans. So...what? He had sex with someone while awaiting a divorce filing? I don't see the wrong in that. The marriage was ended except for paperwork. Is he supposed to starve for years and then wait additional months/years to eat because..paperwork?


I think you missed the part where he slept with another woman immediately after her abandonment at the hotel before they even talked about starting to work out their divorce plans. 

I'm certainly not going to give anyone crap about waiting "starving for years waiting on paperwork". An exit affair is cheating, however, you want to color it. I think it's passive-aggressive and cowardly, which makes me wonder what all went on in their marriage.


----------



## MJJEAN

Diana7 said:


> If the marriage was so terrible all those years then why didnt he end it? He waited till he had an affair then decided that he may now get a divorce. They are still married till the divorce is final, so whatever you think its still adultery.


Who knows why people don't end bad marriages? I didn't end mine for years because I was sure the kids would be ruined. My husbands closest friend is in a 10 year dead bedroom and is miserable, but he made a vow. Some don't want to admit failure in judgement. Some don't want to "be the bad guy". Some are eternal optimists sure that they'll have a great marriage as soon as they crack the secret spouse code. Fear of being alone. Belief that unhappy is normal in marriage. Sunk cost fallacy. Finances.

I understand your belief that married is married until the court officially declares the marriage dissolved. I simply see it differently. I see the marriage as between the spouses. Once it's over between the couple the rest is just paperwork lagging behind reality.



TXTrini said:


> I think you missed the part where he slept with another woman immediately after her abandonment at the hotel before they even talked about starting to work out their divorce plans.


Nope, I didn't miss that. His wife, for the nth time over the last few years, ended their marriage with her parting words and abandonment. Instead of trying to work it out, like he has every time before, OP took her at her word this time.


----------



## TXTrini

MJJEAN said:


> Who knows why people don't end bad marriages? I didn't end mine for years because I was sure the kids would be ruined. My husbands closest friend is in a 10 year dead bedroom and is miserable, but he made a vow. Some don't want to admit failure in judgement. Some don't want to "be the bad guy". Some are eternal optimists sure that they'll have a great marriage as soon as they crack the secret spouse code. Fear of being alone. Belief that unhappy is normal in marriage. Sunk cost fallacy. Finances.
> 
> I understand your belief that married is married until the court officially declares the marriage dissolved. I simply see it differently. I see the marriage as between the spouses. Once it's over between the couple the rest is just paperwork lagging behind reality.
> 
> 
> Nope, I didn't miss that. His wife, for the nth time over the last few years, ended their marriage with her parting words and abandonment. Instead of trying to work it out, like he has every time before, OP took her at her word this time.


From your post, it seems our view of marriage is different, and I will agree to disagree with you. If marriage was just between spouses, why do people (and you) feel the need to bother to get married in the first place? Wouldn't it be best to simply be a free agent and most on along when it doesn't suit you anymore?


----------



## Cletus

TXTrini said:


> From your post, it seems our view of marriage is different, and I will agree to disagree with you. If marriage was just between spouses, why do people (and you) feel the need to bother to get married in the first place? Wouldn't it be best to simply be a free agent and most on along when it doesn't suit you anymore?


I'm a married atheist. There are still considerable social, cultural, and government related reasons to get married even when you believe it is just between two people.


----------



## Imperfections

TXTrini said:


> From your post, it seems our view of marriage is different, and I will agree to disagree with you. If marriage was just between spouses, why do people (and you) feel the need to bother to get married in the first place? Wouldn't it be best to simply be a free agent and most on along when it doesn't suit you anymore?


It (used to be?) more difficult getting laid without committing to a life-sentence together. 
Oh the irony...


----------



## TXTrini

Cletus said:


> I'm a married atheist. There are still considerable social, cultural, and government related reasons to get married even when you believe it is just between two people.


I actually wasn't referring to religion, I find it funny how people like all the benefits but none of the downsides of marriage when it becomes inconvenient .


----------



## Personal

TXTrini said:


> I think you missed the part where he slept with another woman immediately after her abandonment at the hotel before they even talked about starting to work out their divorce plans.


Good for him.


----------



## Personal

TXTrini said:


> If marriage was just between spouses, why do people (and you) feel the need to bother to get married in the first place?


I can't speak for anyone else's marriage, yet my marriage is just between my spouse and I. Since as best as I can remember over 21 years ago we didn't marry any other people at the time.

What makes you feel qualified to be the arbiter of who can or can't get married?


----------



## Personal

MJJEAN said:


> Who knows why people don't end bad marriages? I didn't end mine for years because I was sure the kids would be ruined. My husbands closest friend is in a 10 year dead bedroom and is miserable, but he made a vow. Some don't want to admit failure in judgement. Some don't want to "be the bad guy". Some are eternal optimists sure that they'll have a great marriage as soon as they crack the secret spouse code. Fear of being alone. Belief that unhappy is normal in marriage. Sunk cost fallacy. Finances.


That pretty much covers it.


----------



## TXTrini

Personal said:


> I can't speak for anyone else's marriage, yet my marriage is just between my spouse and I. Since as best as I can remember over 21 years ago we didn't marry any other people at the time.
> 
> What makes you feel qualified to be the arbiter of who can or can't get married?


I asked a question, how does that imply I am the arbiter of anything? Butthurt much?


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> They are still married till the divorce is final, so whatever you think its still adultery.


Cool!

Given her egregious behaviour, I hope he enjoys the adultery.


----------



## HDNP

Dave.Tea said:


> Hello Gang....I’m just coming to the end of a five year marriage (eight years together)
> My (soon to be ex-wife) and I are in our early 50’s and have been married previously. We started out with an air of “it’s great to be loved again”...but the cracks soon started to show ! We muddled along “ok”, we were great friends, not great husband/wife ! Over the period, I have genuinely lost count of the amount of bust ups we have had, three times she has asked for a separation and has said “I don’t want to live with you anymore”....but I always tried to put a positive spin on it & talk things through. For the past three years, we have had no sex, no intimacy and separate bedrooms. I questioned this & she replied, she didn’t miss it and it was never that great anyway ! On our 5th wedding anniversary we decided to go away to a fancy hotel about 2hrs away to try & get some “mojo” going. The journey was a Friday afternoon drive through heavy traffic & she was “verbally Road raging” all the way there whilst driving. When we arrived at the hotel....she commented on the idiotic behaviour of other drivers, I replied that I hadn’t required a running commentary on it ! I went to speak to the concierge who informed me the room was ready, I returned to the car to collect the cases & my wife says “you go up, I need to make a phonecall, I’ll see you in a minute” I went to the room with the bags, my wife rings “ enjoy your stay, I’m driving home....I’ve had enough of this debacle !”
> So I’m “stuck” two hours away from home in the hotel...on my own !
> I finally had a word with myself and said I have to get out of this relationship (along with some serious re-evaluation of life after my best friend had died the year previously)
> 
> I had always been very friendly with a female friend from my teen years, but we never got it together and our lives went in different directions....but we sporadically kept in touch.....long story short....we decided to go for coffee/catch up and off the back of this decided to make a “date weekend” taking our dogs hiking in the moors.....We got on fantastically & ended up sleeping together....it was like we should have taken this direction all those years ago (not the sex, the empathetic connection)
> Anyway “back to reality” and my wife and I start talking about separation/divorce. Meanwhile, I’m messaging my new “love interest” and make the slip up of leaving my phone in the kitchen whilst doing chores....my wife sees a “sexy” message ! Oh dear ! The sh#t hits the fan !
> I confess straightaway (no point in denying it !) and get the accusation of “you are still legally married, could you not have waited ?”
> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Absolutely, many of us feel the brunt of the blame and pain. Yes, it is not the cheater who is the only responsible party. The betrayed must take responsibility for their part for infidelity occurring. I love my husband dearly, but I have been upset and only thinking about my own needs. I’ve been withholding affection and love because I haven’t been getting what I want. It’s ridiculous. If I start treating my husband with respect, caring, and love like I used to he will respond to my needs. Sometimes life gets so busy we forget we need to love each other. Women should never withhold sex, unless there is a medical problem.


----------



## Rowan

HDNP said:


> Absolutely, many of us feel the brunt of the blame and pain. Yes, it is not the cheater who is the only responsible party. The betrayed must take responsibility for their part for infidelity occurring. I love my husband dearly, but I have been upset and only thinking about my own needs. I’ve been withholding affection and love because I haven’t been getting what I want. It’s ridiculous. *If I start treating my husband with respect, caring, and love like I used to he will respond to my needs. *Sometimes life gets so busy we forget we need to love each other. Women should never withhold sex, unless there is a medical problem.



The marital counseling industrial complex is largely built on the concept in bold above - that good communication and caring will result in one's partner meeting one's needs. The problem is, that its not unfailingly true. Sometimes, treating your spouse with respect, caring and love results in...your spouse cheating anyway. Because, some people really like respect, caring and love at home *and* a little extra action on the side. 

So, yes, anyone who's been cheated on needs to really think about what part they might have played in the creation of an unhealthy marriage. But, in some cases, their part is simply that they unknowingly chose a partner who lacked the capacity to be faithful, overlooked or tolerated red-flag behaviors, and/or stayed too long with someone who didn't deserve their trust.

As for the OP in this thread, honestly, it sounds like the marriage should have ended long, long, ago. But, that he stayed around for so long and then ended it all with an exit affair tells me he was getting something out of the drama-fest that was his marriage, and that he doesn't handle conflict maturely and has poor boundaries. Without a good bit of personal work, he should pretty much be a walking red-flag, himself, for any future prospective partner.


----------



## Divinely Favored

MJJEAN said:


> I suppose that depends on POV. I think she pulled the plug when she left and the plug pulling was affirmed when he returned home.


By what she has said and done i would consider it over. I would also reiterate to her in an Email or writing...."As you said, you are done with this debacle! Divorce papers will be coming forthwith." At that point I would conder myself a free agent. Legally you are still married until the judge rules. But i believe Biblically you have notified her of divorce, however, financially the govt still has their nose in your business.


----------



## MJJEAN

TXTrini said:


> From your post, it seems our view of marriage is different, and I will agree to disagree with you. If marriage was just between spouses, why do people (and you) feel the need to bother to get married in the first place? Wouldn't it be best to simply be a free agent and most on along when it doesn't suit you anymore?


Marriage is two things. It is a personal relationship between the spouses and it is a legal contract. The personal relationship can be severed immediately. The legal contract takes longer to dissolve. I believe that once the personal relationship has been severed and the marriage is on paper only there is no reason not to behave as a single person.

Why marry in the first place? Because marriage comes with social and legal benefits that being unmarried does not confer.



Imperfections said:


> It (used to be?) more difficult getting laid without committing to a life-sentence together.
> Oh the irony...


70 years ago, maybe, but not since the sexual revolution.


----------



## LisaDiane

MJJEAN said:


> Why marry in the first place? Because marriage comes with social and legal benefits that being unmarried does not confer.


And most of those "benefits" are sketchy at best...!!!!!


----------



## Atholk

Dave.Tea said:


> So my point is :- there was no marriage left here, nothing, we were like flat mates, so why was she surprised that I “cheated” on a loveless sham marriage? It made me think..do women never think that MAYBE it was their actions that created this re-action ? And the blame lays with their behaviours ?
> I couldn’t take anymore of her crap....but now I’m the “bad man” (whom she plainly didn’t want anymore anyway)
> Ladies....take a look at WHY your man chose this path.


Usually in this scenario she wants something that you're bringing to the table, but she isn't that into you. So there has to be a dance of keeping you on the hook to keep you doing what you do for her, but also create distance so she doesn't have to sex with someone she doesn't really want to sleep with.

So when you have someone else interested in you, her whole scenario risks collapsing as all her leverage vanishes. She doesn't want you, but she wants what you do for her, so she does become genuinely upset when potentially she loses what she wants to another woman.

The question of who is to blame over the cheating, or even if it's cheating in this sort of scenario, is all quite secondary to the actual problem.


----------



## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> By what she has said and done i would consider it over. I would also reiterate to her in an Email or writing...."As you said, you are done with this debacle! Divorce papers will be coming forthwith." At that point I would conder myself a free agent. Legally you are still married until the judge rules. But i believe Biblically you have notified her of divorce, however, financially the govt still has their nose in your business.


Biblically you are still married till you are divorced.


----------



## center1

Dave.Tea said:


> You don’t feed me right, chances are I’m going to get hungry enough to dine out elsewhere....simple.


You are very entitled. I’d love to hear your wife’s take on it. I’m sure there’s a whole lot we’re not hearing. You can spin it any way you want, you chose to cheat when you should have put that energy into wrapping up the divorce first.


----------



## center1

Dave.Tea said:


> At my age....I’m not prepared to start questioning the validity of my actions....how many times do you NEED telling that this relationship is over, before you need to be pro-active ? My friend of thirty plus years died of a brain tumour last year....I’m not going to waste “my dash” (If you know what that means?) anymore


You sound very immature. Why did you post here if you’re so self righteous? Are you looking for people to tell you what you want to hear? You’ll find little of that because you were wrong. The responsible adult thing to do is handle your marriage before moving on. And if you don’t, at least take responsibility.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> Biblically you are still married till you are divorced.


Biblically, people who aren't Christians aren't Christians.


----------



## RandomDude

MJJEAN said:


> Marriage is two things. It is a personal relationship between the spouses and it is a legal contract. The personal relationship can be severed immediately. The legal contract takes longer to dissolve. I believe that once the personal relationship has been severed and the marriage is on paper only there is no reason not to behave as a single person.
> 
> Why marry in the first place? Because marriage comes with social and legal benefits that being unmarried does not confer.
> 
> 70 years ago, maybe, but not since the sexual revolution.


The ability to do such is one of the strongest points supporting no fault divorce I found, as vindictive as I am towards cheaters...

In a fault divorce country/state, if the personal relationship has been severed and both parties acknowledge that and marriage remains only on paper, that would still be considered adultery sadly. Think there was a thread back about a swinger couple and the guy accused his wife of cheating even though she had his permission (swinging).


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Biblically, people who aren't Christians aren't Christians.


Doesn't change the legal side of things.The marrige ends when the divorce is final.


----------



## Lance Mannion

Diana7 said:


> Doesn't change the legal side of things.The marrige ends when the divorce is final.


Morally, the marriage ends when one party breaks the vows. The contract is now null and void.


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> Doesn't change the legal side of things.The marrige ends when the divorce is final.


True, but this just means you can't marry someone else until the legalities are satisfied. Someone can date, and if they've announced a separation and intent to divorce, I think it's morally acceptable.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> Doesn't change the legal side of things.The marrige ends when the divorce is final.


Adultery isn't illegal either in most states.


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## happyhusband0005

ConanHub said:


> Biblically, people who aren't Christians aren't Christians.


And Biblically, a lot of people who say they are Christians aren't Christians. Like 80% of the brothers and sisters I had for teachers in school, or the priest who taught my alter boy class (which i quit after he tossed me and a friend down a flight of stairs) or many of the politicians who do their photo ops at church on Sunday then have Sunday dinner with their mistress. Sorry no TJ.


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## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Adultery isn't illegal either in most states.


Adultery is still adultery.


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## Diana7

Lance Mannion said:


> Morally, the marriage ends when one party breaks the vows. The contract is now null and void.


yet she has stayed for 5 years so what does that say exactly. If a man did that to me I would have ended it immediately because I woud know after numerous affairs and years of deception that the trust has gone and has no chance of returning.


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## Lance Mannion

Diana7 said:


> yet she has stayed for 5 years so what does that say exactly. If a man did that to me I would have ended it immediately because I woud know after numerous affairs and years of deception that the trust has gone and has no chance of returning.


What do I think? I think she entered into a NEW contract, she kept her commitment to him and now expected his commitment to her.

If someone screws me over on a business contract, I can walk or sue, or I can enter into the same contract again.


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## Diana7

Lance Mannion said:


> What do I think? I think she entered into a NEW contract, she kept her commitment to him and now expected his commitment to her.
> 
> If someone screws me over on a business contract, I can walk or sue, or I can enter into the same contract again.


Which is now being broken by her EA.


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## Lance Mannion

Diana7 said:


> Which is now being broken by her EA.


Right. So now the ball is in the OP's court, he extends a "contract extension" to the wife or he divorces.


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## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> Biblically you are still married till you are divorced.


Say what?

The bible had absolutely nothing to do with my marriage. It has absolutely nothing to do with millions of people in the world or their marriages.

OP hasn't stated the bible had anything to do with his, either.


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## Mr. Nail

Diana7 said:


> Which is now being broken by her EA.


Whisky Tango Foxtrot.
Where is her EA mentioned?
You've got to stop moving the goals.
Here is the important factor that the entire forum seems to have forgotten. 
9 days ago after being chewed out by girl power Dave Tea left the website and hasn't returned. 
You can keep beating this horse all you want, but it's not getting back up.


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## ConanHub

Mr. Nail said:


> Whisky Tango Foxtrot.
> Where is her EA mentioned?
> You've got to stop moving the goals.
> Here is the important factor that the entire forum seems to have forgotten.
> 9 days ago after being chewed out by girl power Dave Tea left the website and hasn't returned.
> You can keep beating this horse all you want, but it's not getting back up.


Tenderized horse..... Ummm....


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## Lance Mannion

Mr. Nail said:


> Whisky Tango Foxtrot.
> Where is her EA mentioned?
> You've got to stop moving the goals.
> Here is the important factor that the entire forum seems to have forgotten.
> 9 days ago after being chewed out by girl power Dave Tea left the website and hasn't returned.
> You can keep beating this horse all you want, but it's not getting back up.


I suspect we've crossed threads here. There's a concurrent thread of a woman having an EA and her husband had some affairs 5 years ago.


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## Diana7

Livvie said:


> Say what?
> 
> The bible had absolutely nothing to do with my marriage. It has absolutely nothing to do with millions of people in the world or their marriages.
> 
> OP hasn't stated the bible had anything to do with his, either.


I was replying to another poster.


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## Diana7

Mr. Nail said:


> Whisky Tango Foxtrot.
> Where is her EA mentioned?
> You've got to stop moving the goals.
> Here is the important factor that the entire forum seems to have forgotten.
> 9 days ago after being chewed out by girl power Dave Tea left the website and hasn't returned.
> You can keep beating this horse all you want, but it's not getting back up.


To be fair many men here have said that he should have ended his marriage first or at least started the divorce process. So its nothing to do with 'girl power'but that he knows he was in the wrong and was trying to justify it.


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## Diana7

The really silly thing about this thread is that there are 1001 reasons why men/ women have affairs, but the OP is assuming that all men have the exact same set of circumstcnaces as he has. wheras no other man has because every marriage is different.


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## Mr. Nail

Horse is still dead.


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## In Absentia

not sure what he was trying to achieve...


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## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> not sure what he was trying to achieve...


He had a valid point but poor communication skills.


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## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> He had a valid point but poor communication skills.


His point was probably valid, but unfortunately, it was a point that would never go down well here... but he didn't know that, I guess.


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