# Just a thought on bad MCing



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Even in my relatively short time here, I have noticed several stories where MCers have given some advice that seems at best fatuous and at worse dangerous and counter-productive. 

Some seem to tell the cheated on spouse that the affair of their husband/wife was somehow THEIR fault, that they should not even bring the subject up again for fear of damaging the self-esteem of their spouse. Without any thought, it seems to me, for the damage to the self-esteem of the betrayed spouse.

Why could they give such fatally flawed advice?

Very poor training? That's possible.

Or -and I think this might be more likely- is the MCer a cheater, also? Are they projecting their inadequacies onto the relationship they are supposedly trying to repair? Or just thinking: "Hey! I got your back, fellow cheater!"

Seeking advice from a cheater would be like a smoker desperate to quit being counselled by a person who constantly blows smoke in their face. 

But how to know if the MCer is a cheater and therefore likely to offer such fatally flawed advice?


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Good point; how do you really know their motives? I guess we take a chance. We have had 4 sessions and I sit there sometimes wondering what this guy makes of us both - does he think we will be a couple that makes it? Does he tell his partner/wife afterwards what idiots we are? Does he think that an EA is better than a PA? I really struggle with the whole concept!

Like most things in life, it is probably all down to chance, you have got to hope that you stumble on a good/decent MC maybe???!!


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

I think it's just that there are so many different theories about it and new "ideas" out there. Some counselors seem to need to have a theory or point of view that they adhere to no matter the facts. We had one that thought an EA was fine, nothing to complain about, as long as it didn't go PA. She followed this theory (and had books on it) that said that a WW hadn't done wrong until she had a PA, and even then she should be "validated in her choice" for some reason I never understood. 

Some are just lacking in values themselves. We had another counselor, rec'd through our church, who told us flat out that "adultery isn't the worst thing in the world" and was generally dismissive of it as a problem. My wife loved hearing this until he began actively hitting on her and leering at her after a few weeks. Then she was as eager to leave that counselor as I was. There are all kinds out there and any counselor will tell you that sometimes a counselor is the one most in need of counseling, though many others are very good.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Good Dog, I think your story of the lecherous MCer helps towards proving my point. Not only was he a cheater he wanted to cheat with one of his clients! Did you tell your church about his unethical habits?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Having thought about it... maybe there is a flipside to this - maybe MC being a cheater helps him understand the thinking of a cheater.

So question is, has he learned from his experiences and can he use them in an appropriate and contructive way?


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Good Dog, I think your story of the lecherous MCer helps towards proving my point. Not only was he a cheater he wanted to cheat with one of his clients! Did you tell your church about his unethical habits?


If I'd had something solid to go on then maybe I would have told someone about him. But we weren't sticking around (we've moved to my wife's home town) and I had no way to prove anything about this guy. He was both a counselor and in the ministry and so had a lot of respect. In terms of his opinion about adultery being "not so bad" he'd expressed that opinion publicly on two occasions I knew of and most people thought that was just fine. I guess it is when you're thinking of it abstractly rather than having been on the receiving end of things. At any rate, I was just looking to leave it all behind, jobs, "friends", and that town and just move on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> If I'd had something solid to go on then maybe I would have told someone about him. But we weren't sticking around (we've moved to my wife's home town) and I had no way to prove anything about this guy. He was both a counselor and in the ministry and so had a lot of respect. In terms of his opinion about adultery being "not so bad" he'd expressed that opinion publicly on two occasions I knew of and most people thought that was just fine. I guess it is when you're thinking of it abstractly rather than having been on the receiving end of things. At any rate, I was just looking to leave it all behind, jobs, "friends", and that town and just move on.


Then I think just letting that go was probably the right thing. However, his place on the Karma bus (in it or under it!) is surely booked!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Having thought about it... maybe there is a flipside to this - maybe MC being a cheater helps him understand the thinking of a cheater.
> 
> So question is, has he learned from his experiences and can he use them in an appropriate and contructive way?


Then he or she should say: "Before I start your session, there's something I need to tell you..."


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then he or she should say: before I start you session, there's something I need to tell you..."


I guess you are right. 

I am in for a new round of IC myself, and now, thanks to your question, I ask myself; do I want someone who has been involved in infidelity or not, and if "yes", should it be one who was on the "giving or receiving" end of the experience.

To be honest I don't know.


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then I think just letting that go was probably the right thing. However, his place on the Karma bus (in it or under it!) is surely booked!


I like to think that. I just don't understand why so many people seem to think that infidelity is funny or even fun. I guess until you've faced it yourself it's all just a laugh or something. Maybe this guy was no different. Even my wife to this day, for all her efforts at R, still seems to think that there's something about her EA that I'm just too serious about and I've heard that from others. And of course the men who've pursued my wife over the years must have thought nothing of it, or I hate to think they did know how much damage it causes but did it anyway. Maybe these counselors just play to the public perception that some people have that the whole thing is just fun and games, I don't know.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Being the cheated spouse hurts your psyche and your soul.

"Wasn't I man/woman enough for my spouse?"
"What did I do that drove them to the arms of someone else?"
"God, they are the most special person in my life, and they chose to give that specialness to someone else? I must be a really bad person for them to do that to me."

Any MC who does not understand those feelings of self-loathing and self-hatred in the mind of the cheated spouse and who does not help the cheater to see the horrible damage they caused to the person they claim to love really should not be an MCer.


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## Zippy the chimp (May 15, 2012)

HA HA was talking to my wife about her IC and she said the counselor had been married several times(she's a woman) now my wife is there for her issues not for MC but I thought it was funny as this woman will be helping her with the issues that contributed to the cheating. Not to say this woman's relationships had any infidelity in them just a bit funny.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

My FWH and I went to a bad MC. I still get rather frustrated and angry about it. He, more than my FWH and I ever could, brushed right past my H's emotional affair as if it were nothing.

Questions he should have asked:
how long was the affair
how did it start
what happened during the affair
what did you discuss / talk about with the AP
how did you maintain communications
and most importantly 

ARE YOU STILL IN CONTACT


My FWH and I just attended MC last night, I suspect it is one of our last sessions (maybe we'll go 2 or 3 more times but I see it winding down). He was appalled at our descriptions of how our old MC had handled things.

He's really a terrific counselor and I wish everyone could find someone this good.

His favorite book is The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work by Gottman (he likes to say the book will put him out of business) and of course he recommends Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.


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## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

I’m new here and haven’t even posted my own intro yet. But I’m not new to being a BS. I’m not an expert, but here’s my take on it, based upon my own personal experience; and this is a subject about which I feel very strongly, so here I go up on my soapbox:

Always, always, always be your own best advocate. Listen to your gut. If it doesn’t sound right…if it doesn’t feel right to you…you do have a right to challenge the therapist and even fire the therapist.

As in any industry, not all of them are good. Not all of them know what they are talking about. It can be trial and error to find a good one, and to find the right one. Having a degree does not make them God.

My H’s second therapist told me that I shouldn’t be upset by his wandering eye. That I was insecure about his wandering eye due to my FOO. That I should just be able to laugh it off. AS IF! I was boiling mad after that one and only session I attended with my H. I felt outnumbered, and as if I had just been circled by the wagons. The 2 of them with their mindset, against mine.

When I shared what happened with my IC, she told me it sounded like my H’s IC was a s*x addict himself. At the very least, my H’s IC was enabling. I thought to myself, “No wonder nothing has changed. No wonder things aren’t getting any better.”

After that, things really came to a head between my H and I. He came to me and said, “I need your help. I can’t stand living like this. I can’t stand the way things are between us. What can I do to make things better?”

A short time later, I handed him a list of area SATs and CSATs. I told him that as long as he stayed with his current enabling therapist who was more than likely an addict himself, nothing would change, and therefore, nothing would get any better between us. In fact, things would only continue to deteriorate between us. I told him, “No wonder you like this guy. He approves of what you do!”

Things are still bad between us, but at least with the CSAT, some things did change for the better, and some things did improve. My H now has a better understanding of how what he does affects me, though there are pros and cons to this. When Dr. Jekyll is around, this knowledge allows him to be more empathetic, and therefore, more respectful and courteous. When Mr. Hyde is out, this knowledge causes him to be more sadistic, and therefore, he acts out intentionally in an effort to hurt my self-esteem. Mr. Hyde gets off on hurting others, b/c it allows him to feel superior, which in turn feeds his ego. The misfortunes of others give Mr. Hyde great pleasure. And, Mr. Hyde gauges the level of love someone has for him by how much he can hurt them. The more he is able to hurt them, the more they must love him.

The BS must stay strong and must stick to his/her guns, when something is that important. Some of these therapists are enabling, and when they are, it’s important to recognize that, and then to do something about it. Therapists are not gods. They are people like us. They can make mistakes, and they can be mistaken. They do not always have all the answers. They do not always have the right answers. When they don’t, they can end up doing more harm than good. I do not always take what they say at face value. I have to honor my own morals and values first, which don’t necessarily align with theirs.

Some of them can be very b&w, but I’ve learned that what works for one client, doesn’t necessarily work for all. There are just too many variables involved, when you’re dealing with the human brain, emotions, and mental health in general, besides all the differences between people, their upbringing, their genes, and their current backgrounds and situations.

I’ve learned that a lot of “MCs” and “s*x therapists” are a bit too liberal for me. What might work for other couples throws salt into the wounds of a BS and causes more damage to an already damaged union. A therapist must be empathetic to a BS’s cause, and not so much to a WS’s issues (I get that empathy is necessary on both sides, though for different reasons). Validation of very hurt feelings is necessary, IMO, before a BS can begin to let those go.

Even if you’re not necessarily dealing with a s*x addict, I feel that an SAT or a CSAT is the best qualified to help with betrayal. They understand very well the devastation that a BS feels. They are able to provide that much-needed validation that can pave the way to start healing.

However, the problem for my H and I was and is due to the fact that my H has been resistant to changing for the better. Therefore, no amount of counseling is going to help him. He claims he wants to be helped – he claims he wants to change – yet he hasn’t done much in the way of changing, and he has been in therapy for the past 4 years. I believe his s*x addiction is a symptom of something much larger, but that’s another story for another day in a new thread.

Bottom line, if the WS isn’t remorseful, no amount of therapy, even with the right therapist, is going to change a thing. I know that resistance can be present initially, but if after a time it doesn’t melt away, your marriage is doomed, like mine is. If 4 years in therapy go by, with 4 different therapists, and your marriage is STILL struggling, take that as a sign that things are probably never going to improve enough for you to want to stick around.

And if you’re dealing with a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde personality, like I am, and Mr. Hyde won’t stop coming around, your marriage is doomed in that instance as well. Therapy can be helpful, and therapy is usually necessary, but if the WS isn’t really interested in changing, then nothing at all is going to change, as far as the WS and your marriage go.

P.S. – Our CSAT told us up front at our first session that he was a recovering s*x addict. Since he’d been in recovery for 20+ years, much of it was behind him. He was able to offer the benefit of his experience as a WS, so my H wasn’t able to get anything over on him, since he already knew how they thought; and he was able to offer me his empathy, as learned both through seeing what his actions had done to his own wife (who stayed with him) and through his own recovery. I usually felt validated after a session with him; but since my H would not change, he often felt beat up after each session. It never worked for us, b/c my H wasn’t genuinely remorseful, and he wasn’t genuinely empathetic to me. There was some change, but there wasn’t enough change. IMO, that had nothing to do with the CSAT and everything to do with my H. I mean, he’s moved from one therapist to another, and different types of therapists, but so far, the one who made the biggest dent was the CSAT. He could have made an even bigger dent, if my H would have allowed it; and if my H had opened himself up to the gifts laid out before him.

Most SATs and CSATs offer both IC and MC and offer services to both the BS and the WS. Many of them are also recovering addicts themselves, but I believe in most cases, this proves to be beneficial vs. damaging (depending on how well they themselves have done in recovery). I would say if the WS is male, stick with a male therapist, and vice versa. But no matter what, if the therapist is too provocative, find another one, b/c you don’t need that running interference.

Sometimes those in the same boat, such as a therapist also being a cheater, are able to offer the best advice. They just aren’t always able to follow their own advice.

Okay, down off my soapbox…hope everyone is successful in finding the right therapist who works for them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thanks, LFT, that was very enlightening.


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

I believe if your MC tells you what you wanna hear that is what determines whether you like them or not. For example how many of the bs on this site only take the advice of people that say, yes your marriage can be saved and even better then before. I found out after 3 months of Nc that my bs was still in her A. She did all the right things, went to counselling, was remorseful, checked in and was 100 percent transparent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

BTW, my H and I have ALWAYS said, "if you're not married to your best friend, you're married to the wrong person". Even during his A he never thought AP was a better friend than I was to him. She was just an ego boost.[/QUOTE]

Can you still say after the A that he or she is your best friend? I know I can't, and don't believe anything a WS says about what they have or haven't told the AP. After dday their just trying to save their own asses, and assets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

completely_lost said:


> I believe if your MC tells you what you wanna hear that is what determines whether you like them or not. For example how many of the bs on this site only take the advice of people that say, yes your marriage can be saved and even better then before. I found out after 3 months of Nc that my bs was still in her A. She did all the right things, went to counselling, was remorseful, checked in and was 100 percent transparent._Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought you caught her via VAR in her car talking on her cell phone? Sorry if my memory isn't working well tonight.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

completely_lost said:


> Krichali said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, my H and I have ALWAYS said, "if you're not married to your best friend, you're married to the wrong person". Even during his A he never thought AP was a better friend than I was to him. She was just an ego boost.
> ...


I did marry my best friend, she did cheat on me, I can, and still do, call her my best friend. Things with us are not always perfect, sometimes there are really tough days/nights, but things are trending in the right direction, and we are on a path to have a marriage, friendship, and relationship that is stronger, healthier, and better in almost every way than the one that died when she cheated.

I'm sorry your situation is different, I hope things improve for you, but not everything ends up miserable and deceitful after an affair, and sometimes things really do get better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sometimes those we love can do incredibly hurtful, mean things to us. 

A good MC can help both partners get over this, or see that there might not be a future in the relationship. That happened to a friend. She went to Relate (formerly the Marriage Guidance Council) it was supposed to be her and her WS, but he decided he didn't want to go.

She went to several sessions by herself and the counsellor at Relate was able to help her to see that the best option for her was to let him go and to build a new life for herself and their twins when they were born.


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I thought you caught her via VAR in her car talking on her cell phone? Sorry if my memory isn't working well tonight.


Your memory is correct. Originally she told me about the 3 year A, then promised to never see him again. Then 5 days ago after putting a VAR in her car I found out that the affair was still happening and in fact never stopped. Of course she did all the right things a WW is suppose to. All she did was carry on the lies longer, she's very good at it. She must be good at lying, she hid a 3 year EA/PA from me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

completely_lost said:


> Your memory is correct. Originally she told me about the 3 year A, then promised to never see him again. Then 5 days ago after putting a VAR in her car I found out that the affair was still happening and in fact never stopped. Of course she did all the right things a WW is suppose to. All she did was carry on the lies longer, she's very good at it. She must be good at lying, she hid a 3 year EA/PA from me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I only ask because you said she was 100% transparent. If she was talking on the cell phone with this man, her cell phone records and cell phone history would show the call. I'm not trying to give you a hard time--you don't deserve it after the h*ll you've been through--just trying to understand which part of transparency was 100%, because that apart appears not to be so. Or was she using a burner phone? (Just to prove I'm not giving you a hard time: it never occurred to me to verify after DD#1; my DD#2 was pure luck/accident.)


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

My MC asked me last fall where H's EA was from..(he met her in Singapore) and I said I believe she was from the Phillipines..and MC said..wow there are some beautiful women from the Phillipines..

..and how does that help me recover from this??? I wanted to slap her face.


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

Krichali, you are one of the lucky ones. I don't know if you've read any of my posts but my W had a 3 year EA/PA, she tells me everything I believe to rid herself of guilt. So we had always been close I would say best friends. We became closer as the kids got older and thought, hanging with mom and dad was lame. So we begin to work on us and the marriage and according to everything I've read about what to do and not do during R, she was following to the letter. Three months and one week into R, I get a strange feeling most likely from reading all the posts on here about DDay#1 then #2 and some even more. So I started to second guess everything and found out they were still in the thick of the affair.

I'm very jealous and yet happy for those that have survived infidelity and became a better and stronger couple. So congrats, on being able to forgive your best friend. I know I can't now, I guess thats why they say a "dogs a mans best friend" I need to get a dog lol. 

Just remember if they hid an affair for a long period of time they can easily fake R to save their asses, I'm talking from personal experience. Doesn't mean every WS would do what mine did but be careful and caustious all. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who's been fooled more then once.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I refused my wifes last request to go to MC because I took university classes with a lot of these people in my city.

Let's just say they don't know what they are doing and don't care.

Then I read the stories here about the absolutely atrocious advice that some of you are getting and it solidifies my position.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I refused my wifes last request to go to MC because I took university classes with a lot of these people in my city.
> 
> Let's just say they don't know what they are doing and don't care.
> 
> Then I read the stories here about the absolutely atrocious advice that some of you are getting and it solidifies my position.


What about the stories of people who get great advice from counselors? Like anything else in life, there are good counselors, bad counselors, and a bunch of average run of the mill counselors that fall somewhere in the middle. It really is up to the couple to find a counselor that works for them, and in most cases, if the couple does their due diligence, research, and leg work, the MC is a major help in rebuilding or strengthening a relationship.

I wish I could go back in time and tell myself to start couples counseling while things were "perfect" between my partner and I. The counseling has been a major benefit to us both, we are very happy with our counselor.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

If my marriage is ever to the point where I need to roll the dice with a Google search to find some complete stranger to advise me on how to fix something he/she can`t possibly comprehend I`m just calling it quits.

There will be no "counseling" in my future.

You`ve got to remember that the vast majority of these people thought Freud was a genius for nearly a century.

I don`t need that kind of stupid mixed into an already dangerous situation.


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## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

DXG, I think you mean me...

That is no easy answer to give. I still need to post an intro with my story.

I will continue the rest of what I want to say in a new thread, so as not to hijack this one...


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

tacoma said:


> If my marriage is ever to the point where I need to roll the dice with a Google search to find some complete stranger to advise me on how to fix something he/she can`t possibly comprehend I`m just calling it quits.
> 
> There will be no "counseling" in my future.
> 
> ...


There might be something to this. I was told there might be an inherent problem with the entire profession, meaning psychologists, therapists, counselors, etc. Back in the 90s there was a series of studies done that basically showed that when it came down to it, most of the time the process of talking about one's problems with a trained professional was actually very harmful to the patient over the long term, with only a few exceptions for people with serious mental illness. As you can imagine this made the profession look really bad, so they basically agreed (under the lead of the APA and its European counterparts) to bury the results from these studies and pretend they never happened. Strangely enough I learned about this from a psych prof back in school. It turns out that for most basically normal people following grandma's wisdom to just forget whatever your problem is and move on with your life is the best thing to do. Note that I don't really have an opinion on this myself so no one berate me for being against psychology or its practitioners, I'm just repeating what I was told.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Good Dog said:


> There might be something to this. I was told there might be an inherent problem with the entire profession, meaning psychologists, therapists, counselors, etc. Back in the 90s there was a series of studies done that basically showed that when it came down to it, most of the time the process of talking about one's problems with a trained professional was actually very harmful to the patient over the long term, with only a few exceptions for people with serious mental illness. As you can imagine this made the profession look really bad, so they basically agreed (under the lead of the APA and its European counterparts) to bury the results from these studies and pretend they never happened. Strangely enough I learned about this from a psych prof back in school. It turns out that for most basically normal people following grandma's wisdom to just forget whatever your problem is and move on with your life is the best thing to do. Note that I don't really have an opinion on this myself so no one berate me for being against psychology or its practitioners, I'm just repeating what I was told.


That study was around 1995. It was not a good report for the APA. And yes it said that going to a professional counselor did more harm than good. Let say that 51% had bad results and 49% had good results. I don't remember all the details but if 49% had a good result to me it shows that there are good counselors out there. I was doing pastoral counseling at the time and the report showed that folks that went to a minister had fairly high positive outcomes. Now I am a therapist. I believe I am a good one. My appraoch is to take nothing for granted and to challenge the Veterans that come in to see me. Like one the other day where he told me he punched his neighbor and that he felt right about it. No dice. That is out of control behavior and his PTSD kicked in big time. Many folks need a dose of reality and in marriage counseling typical both do.

I am looking for a MC right now and know what I want. I want someone who understand what a BS goes through and understands the WS as well. Someone who does not pull punches but has empathy. I want someone who is promarriage and is not quick to jump on the D band wagon. I want someone who understands infidelity and won't take bull from my wife nor me.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

You know I've wanted to reply to this thread for days and keep getting side-tracked! :rofl:

I think there are a couple REALLY BIG misconceptions about marriage counseling that really end up giving people inaccurate expectations. Let me go over a few that spring to mind: 

1) Counselors are human beings and have no way to decipher the truth from a lie. So if the lying, cheating, adulterous spouse comes in by themselves and tells the counselor that their spouse is abusive, screams obscenities at them for hours and throws pans at their head...we have no way of telling if that's the truth or not. Based on the evidence presented (the words of the person in front of us) it may well be true--we don't know! Furthermore, if the lying cheater "accidentally" omits the fact that their spouse did scream for hours and throw a pan ON THE DAY THEY FOUND PROOF OF THE AFFAIR...well shoot then it really is true isn't it? Their spouse really DID scream and throw a pan. 

I point this out because we are not mystics. The truth does not glow 'blue' and the lie glow 'red'. Yes we have some training in body language, inflection, and neurolinguistics but as human beings we are imperfect in our detection. As a counselor we have to at least start off considering the possibility that the person in the chair in front of us may be telling some version of the truth. So it is not a realistic expectation to think that you'll get your spouse to the counselor, and "s/he will get the truth". 

2) Counselors are human beings and have their own personal issues, beliefs, and experiences. I personally have been abused as a child, I've been raped, I've been cheated ON, and I've cheated. I've been married, divorced and remarried. I am a Christian believer and incorporate my religious beliefs into suggestions--but I also tell people ahead of time and let them decide. Other counselors may never have been divorced, may have cheated themselves or may be doing it now, etc. Basically counselors don't have a special dispensation on only giving "good" advice!  Fact is: some are not so good 

3) Counselors are human beings and some train to do marriage and family counseling as an example so they can help infertile couples adopt. They don't really have any knowledge, expertise or training that much in adultery, or if they have some training they haven't been through it themselves. Now I have nothing against someone who does nothing but book-learning and because of specializing in infidelity they safeguard their marriage and never go through it. Book-learning isn't the culprit! But I do think that infidelity is one of those fields where you really have to specialize in it to REALLY be able to wisely council people. 

4) Counselors are human beings and lets be honest--most counselors make their living at and it's their profession to be counselors. Now I'm not saying ALL counselors are like this, but there are some whom I know will get a couple to "explore their past" and start psychoanalyzing a bunch of stuff in order to prolong the sessions. And why? Well yes they want to help but one primary goal is to earn a living!! More sessions = more money. If a couple needed about 6 sessions to identify some things, set up a plan, and check in a couple times...they could be done and outta there...but some counselors want to keep them coming back. Now before people get their panties in a wad, there are doctors like this, lawyers like this, shoot even pastors like this! It's not "wrong" per se to want to make a nice living or want to earn more, but rather than coming at the counseling from the point of view of "what's the most efficient way to address this?" the attitude might be more like keep digging until you find something. 

So that's just a few of the misconceptions. Hope that helps!


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

tacoma said:


> If my marriage is ever to the point where I need to roll the dice with a Google search to find some complete stranger to advise me on how to fix something he/she can`t possibly comprehend I`m just calling it quits.
> 
> There will be no "counseling" in my future.
> 
> ...


I'd love for you to cite the source for your claim that the vast majority of counselors thought Freud was a genius.

What makes you think a counselor "can't possibly comprehend" an issue that is presented to him/her? If you make that claim because you feel the only way a person can understand something is to live it, then I guess you don't believe in any type of science.

A person doesn't need to travel to the moon to understand what the moon is.

I certainly hope you never "need" counseling, but as I mention earlier, if I knew then what I know now, I would have gone to individual and couples counseling years earlier, while things were still level and calm.

There is always a benefit from hearing a different point of view on something.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> I am looking for a MC right now and know what I want. I want someone who understand what a BS goes through and understands the WS as well. Someone who does not pull punches but has empathy. I want someone who is promarriage and is not quick to jump on the D band wagon. I want someone who understands infidelity and won't take bull from my wife nor me.


Thorburn, When you find this rare species of critter, could you have them cloned & send one to Australia! Ta.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> And yes it said that going to a professional counselor did more harm than good. Let say that 51% had bad results and 49% had good results.


Unless they used a control group (people with same kind of problems but not going to therapists) it doesn't say much. Obviously, people that end up with counselors have issues already, and if it gives you 1 in 2 chance of recovering (versus, say, 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 otherwise), it might be worth it.

(Disclaimer: not going to MC/IC myself).


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Paladin said:


> I'd love for you to cite the source for your claim that the vast majority of counselors thought Freud was a genius.
> 
> What makes you think a counselor "can't possibly comprehend" an issue that is presented to him/her? If you make that claim because you feel the only way a person can understand something is to live it, then I guess you don't believe in any type of science.
> 
> ...


Don't know any Freudian counselors. I have been around this field for years, working with psychiatrists, psychologist, social workers, therapists, etc. Psychoanalytic therapy (therapist who follow Freud use this method), takes a heck of a lot of time, is costly, and seems to me for the most part to be ineffective (you can find studies). 

If and when you go into counseling set goals. The counselor may or may not accept them and will talk to you about this. Your goals may be off base. Some counselors will list some goals if you are clueless about goal setting and again will discuss this with you.

If in MC you expect the counselor to say what a rotten SOB your WS has been, is or was then you will be disappointed and you have a wrong goal. 

Like aftercare said there are good ones and bad ones.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

LookingForTruth said:


> I
> 
> Bottom line, if the WS isn’t remorseful, no amount of therapy, even with the right therapist, is going to change a thing.


I haven't read thru the rest of this thread yet but this needed to be quoted for truth


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