# What to do w/ walk away wife



## HiRoad

It will be 3 months since my STBXW dropped the bomb on me that she filed for D.We have been in NC/LC for since 6 weeks ago, and has progesively become NC. We have 2 small boys, and are forced to see each other at least once a week. No posOM, since the bomb, she has been partying it up, w/ some new friends, spending alot of $$ out of the business account (which she cant afford) all when i have the kids. 

Then when it is her turn to have the kids she is in single mom mode, all the while running a brand new business (1.5 new)

My problem is that I have (as of 6 weeks ago) been taking inventory, if you call it, of what she have been doing. I have been watching her from 50k ft. I have access to her business bank acount, i have photos of her partying & drinking (when i have kids), and I have caught her lying about going out of town when she had the kids, she left then with my MIL.

I have not exposed any of this to her or my family, friends, or inlaws. I am at a cross road here or at least have been thinking aobut this. 

Do I sit her down, (remember we have been on texting terms only since she left), and tell her that I know what she has been up to and essetially give her an ultimatum. An utlimatum of shape up, work on your M and being a mom or ship out, we go to court split everything up and I am going to ask for alot more than what she is comfortable with. And I may have to expose her behavior to court and family what she has been up to.

Or do i still do NOTHING, keep working on me, ignore her, and make her finish what she started with the D. Keep letting her go. 

I am at a point where, unless the STBXW made some serious strides and accpeted that she has some problems (probably more than me, when she wanted out) and really put 110% into the M and our children, then as Howie Mandell says "No Deal"!

I am torn, becuase although the 180 is working great, I feel great, look great, i am confident i could go out and get a better upgraded version of my STBXW (LOL), my morals tell me that the RIGHT thing to do is be a family unit with my STBXW. 

What to do, what to do!


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> It will be 3 months since my STBXW dropped the bomb on me that she filed for D.We have been in NC/LC for since 6 weeks ago, and has progesively become NC. We have 2 small boys, and are forced to see each other at least once a week. No posOM, since the bomb, she has been partying it up, w/ some new friends, spending alot of $$ out of the business account (which she cant afford) all when i have the kids.
> 
> Then when it is her turn to have the kids she is in single mom mode, all the while running a brand new business (1.5 new)
> 
> My problem is that I have (as of 6 weeks ago) been taking inventory, if you call it, of what she have been doing. I have been watching her from 50k ft. I have access to her business bank acount, i have photos of her partying & drinking (when i have kids), and I have caught her lying about going out of town when she had the kids, she left then with my MIL.
> 
> I have not exposed any of this to her or my family, friends, or inlaws. I am at a cross road here or at least have been thinking aobut this.
> 
> Do I sit her down, (remember we have been on texting terms only since she left), and tell her that I know what she has been up to and essetially give her and ultimatum. An utlimatum of shape up, work on your M and being a mom or ship out, we go to court split everything up and I am going to ask for alot more than what she is comfortable with. And I may have to expose her behavior to court and family what she has been up to.
> 
> Or do i still do NOTHING, keep working on me, ignore her, and make her finish what she started with the D. Keep letting her go.
> 
> I am at a point where, unless the STBXW made some serious strides and accpeted that she has some problems (probably more than me, when she wanted out) and really put 110% into the M and our children, then as Howie Mandell says "No Deal"!
> 
> I am torn, becuase although the 180 is working great, I feel great, look great, i am confident i could go out and get a better upgraded version of my STBXW (LOL), my morals tell me that the RIGHT thing to do is be a family unit with my STBXW.
> 
> What to do, what to do!


Any chance you can track down posOM?

They always mess up.


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## HiRoad

Conrad!

Nice to meet you, i have read so many great things about you!

That is the reason for me digging here and there to find a posOM. To me it only makes sense at this point. But the more I dig, the more i come up empty handed. Or she may be hiding it REALLY well.

Keep in mind she is living with my MIL too. Not that it makes it difficult to have an posOM on the side.

I can keep looking.


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> Conrad!
> 
> Nice to meet you, i have read so many great things about you!
> 
> That is the reason for me digging here and there to find a posOM. To me it only makes sense at this point. But the more I dig, the more i come up empty handed. Or she may be hiding it REALLY well.
> 
> Keep in mind she is living with my MIL too. Not that it makes it difficult to have an posOM on the side.
> 
> I can keep looking.


Do you have access to her car at all?

A VAR under her car seat will do the job.


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## HiRoad

i have looked into that, although, it would be extremely difficult for me to distract her to get to her car.

On top of that she had her mom buy her a new car that she cant afford.

Question, what if there was a posOM, what am i suppose to do with that info? Expose the h$ll out her? What does that accomplish?


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> i have looked into that, although, it would be extremely difficult for me to distract her to get to her car.
> 
> On top of that she had her mom buy her a new car that she cant afford.
> 
> Question, what if there was a posOM, what am i suppose to do with that info? Expose the h$ll out her? What does that accomplish?


Exposing to posOMW will likely end the affair.

At a minimum, it will crack the affair fog.


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## the guy

Your wife bailed, she is no longer your problem so watch her hit rock bottom and in time she will come back asking for forgiveness and by then you have already moved on. It happen alot here in this forum.

So lets kiss the marriage good by...but from a parents point of view is she there for the kids...I would say not, mine wasn't....when you look close enough they are more on the texting crap then watching there kid look for pescription drugs in mommies cabinet.

So my point you can never afford to let your kids hit rock bottom along with there mother. 

Your stance should be more inline with the welfare of the kids and the poor parenting she is doing. 

My old lady can be in the kitchen with the kids , but be miles away as the kid sips wine out of the frig.

My point, your exposure should be more focused on parenting rather then a spouse.

Keep an out for your kids, when the little one get older they will have a great example of how to have fun by watching their mom today.

Lets face it your watching there mother, the mother is watch for the next party and niether one of...well maybe your MIL is watching the kids.


Anyway stop watching your STBXW and start watching your kids. You wife can go ahead and hit rock, you can't afford to let your kids do the same


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## HiRoad

conrad

To me, even is there was a posOM, then it would not matter to me.

If she wants this NEW life and OM that will probably/statistically not work out, go for it. He would have to show face eventually, he cant stay in the dark forever.

Plus, if he wants to help her raise to little boys, lol, go for it. She is 30, i am 34, i cant imagine any NORMAL guy between 25-34 who is not a single father wanting anything to do with a S mom with 2 little kids. 

Thats just the way guys work, why buy used, when you can get new!


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> conrad
> 
> To me, even is there was a posOM, then it would not matter to me.
> 
> If she wants this NEW life and OM that will probably/statistically not work out, go for it. He would have to show face eventually, he cant stay in the dark forever.
> 
> Plus, if he wants to help her raise to little boys, lol, go for it. She is 30, i am 34, i cant imagine any NORMAL guy between 25-34 who is not a single father wanting anything to do with a S mom with 2 little kids.
> 
> Thats just the way guys work, why buy used, when you can get new!


Is she hot?


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## the guy

Who knows when your STBXW does hit rock bottom and you have the kids full time, yout STBX might get a clue.


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## HiRoad

Guy,

That is how i feel, here i am sucking it up doing what is right for my kids, while STBXW is out partying it up with her new found freedom.

That is the whole point of my posUltimatum, try to snap her out of it. She is living a fake $20k/yr millionaire lifestyle that she cant afford. 

I can GURANTEE she will hit rock bottom, and when she does it will hurt, for her. She is on pace for a bankruptcy, failed business, IRS audit, and starting over again.

Me, I am doing great, getting prepared to buy a new house once the D is final so my kids have some stability.


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## HiRoad

Conrad said:


> Is she hot?


She is hot, but having 2 kids last 3 yrs shows on her body. She is very insecure about her stomach and stretch marks. She would not even let me touch her stomach, she wants to get a tummy tuck at some point, but dont know how she would ever pay for it.


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## the guy

HiRoad said:


> .
> 
> Thats just the way guys work, why buy used, when you can get new!


Moms are an easy score especially 30 yr old moms. The new ones take work and are more picky. Milfs are looking for attention and the price for this atention is sex. Any guy and I mean any guy can come along tell your STBXW how young and attractive she is and that guy has solidified the deal. will he last....no.

Your STBXW will most likely go thru a few guys before she figures it out, but by then you will have found someone that has a moral compase.


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## the guy

I don't think you can implement the kind of consequences your STBXW needs to change her. So IMHO that is the best thing for her to face (BK, aduit, failure)...the kind of consequences one must face to change bad behaviors.


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> She is hot, but having 2 kids last 3 yrs shows on her body. She is very insecure about her stomach and stretch marks. She would not even let me touch her stomach, she wants to get a tummy tuck at some point, but dont know how she would ever pay for it.


If you haven't noticed, there are plenty of codependent rescuers available to attractive abusive women - regardless of kids.

They'll hear the needy victim story, and in the tank they go.


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## HiRoad

Guy, i agree, but disagree, yes she likes the attention from the opposite sex, but will she just jump in the sack with some dude, doubt it. She has to many insercurities and will not get on birht control and is deathly afraid to get prego.

But that does no mean she can still have a PA and EA. I know that. 

I know it would not last, and to me that is the deal breaker. I have no problem, i mean NO PROBLEM, leaving her in the dust if that is what she chooses. She nows that.

I think she is really enjoying her new found single life and the attention of being a FAKE young business owner, that has 2 kids, and is attractive. 

Trust me, she is on track to FAIL.


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> Guy, i agree, but disagree, yes she likes the attention from the opposite sex, but will she just jump in the sack with some dude, doubt it. She has to many insercurities and will not get on birht control and is deathly afraid to get prego.
> 
> But that does no mean she can still have a PA and EA. I know that.
> 
> I know it would not last, and to me that is the deal breaker. I have no problem, i mean NO PROBLEM, leaving her in the dust if that is what she chooses. She nows that.
> 
> I think she is really enjoying her new found single life and the attention of being a FAKE young business owner, that has 2 kids, and is attractive.
> 
> Trust me, she is on track to FAIL.


Focus on you

And, I basically guarantee there is a posOM if you wish to identify him.


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## HiRoad

Conrad said:


> If you haven't noticed, there are plenty of codependent rescuers available to attractive abusive women - regardless of kids.
> 
> They'll hear the needy victim story, and in the tank they go.


This is true, i am sure that she plays the victim card to everyone well. 

According to her I was basically a POS. But even if part of it is true, where am I know  

Cant play the same tune now, or in 1 year, if the 180 is permanent.


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## HiRoad

Conrad, if I ever find out that there is posOM, I will def. expose! Or if i cant, in 3 mnths when the D is final and suprise, there is a new man, family, friends, and others will see right through that BS.

But I would rather expose if i had a choice. 

I will keep trying to find posOM, but there may not be one. 

Trust me, to me, it makes sense that ther is a posOM, but she left me before in our 1st year of M when she got back from iraq. I thought for sure there was a posOM. But come to find out she just had some head issues. 

The more i think about it, she has daddy issues, mommy issues, and realtionship issues. 

Her MO is, to jump ship, run, and start over. H$ll when I met her she was engaged and in the processes of calling it off for the 2nd time. 

I should have known then i was NOT special and it would be no different. Kids or no kids she doesnt care.


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> Conrad, if I ever find out that there is posOM, I will def. expose! Or if i cant, in 3 mnths when the D is final and suprise, there is a new man, family, friends, and others will see right through that BS.
> 
> But I would rather expose if i had a choice.
> 
> I will keep trying to find posOM, but there may not be one.
> 
> Trust me, to me, it makes sense that ther is a posOM, but she left me before in our 1st year of M when she got back from iraq. I thought for sure there was a posOM. But come to find out she just had some head issues.
> 
> The more i think about it, she has daddy issues, mommy issues, and realtionship issues.
> 
> *Her MO is, to jump ship, run, and start over. H$ll when I met her she was engaged and in the processes of calling it off for the 2nd time.
> 
> I should have known then i was NOT special and it would be no different. Kids or no kids she doesnt care*.


As much as we WANT to believe "this is the one" and "we are special"... "there's no way she'll do that to me"...

This is the stuff of delusion.

She was showing you who she was.

You didn't believe her.

Now, you do.


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## 06Daddio08

Have fun Conrad.

The focus is all outta wack on here.


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## HiRoad

Yup.. that is right her true colors are def showing. It seems she was putting on an act the whole time we were married. She was right, she is not the marrying type. Does not know how to be a mom, cant cook, cant clean. 

Case closed. Her loss, someone else's gain.

Upn, your right her focus is outa of whack, especially with 2 little kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> Yup.. that is right her true colors are def showing. It seems she was putting on an act the whole time we were married. She was right, she is not the marrying type. Does not know how to be a mom, cant cook, cant clean.
> 
> Case closed. Her loss, someone else's gain.
> 
> Upn, your right her focus is outa of whack, especially with 2 little kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you not believe her when she showed you who she was?

Or did you think it would be "different" with you?

If so, why?


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## HiRoad

I sucked into the hype if being "special". These type of women are dangerous, lesson learned.

Now the next one will have a background check, credit check, family background, and job. 

I will not settle for that "feeling" again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

HiRoad said:


> I sucked into the hype if being "special". These type of women are dangerous, lesson learned.
> 
> Now the next one will have a background check, credit check, family background, and job.
> 
> I will not settle for that "feeling" again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


None of that will matter if you are not right with yourself.

Are you in therapy?


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## HiRoad

Yup IC.. lost 30lbs... look great feel great.. was a rough 2 mnths. But i am getting through it. 180 in full effect.

NC/LC. We barely talk.. text only. Strictly business.. about the kids only. 

I am to the point we, unless an act of God happened and she did a 180, it would be no deal for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Have had my therapist for 4 years since the first time she left. Been going weekly since sheet she dropped the bomb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Maybe I'm missing something, but she filed for divorce. You agree she has left the marriage and both of you are waiting on a piece of paper. Why do you care where she goes or what she does or who she does it with? You are both separated. If you or she go out partying, I don't see how it harms either of you. If the kids stay with granny a few hours, as long as the kids are well cared for, what's the problem? Honestly, what difference does it make whether she not-loves you while partying or if she not-loves you seated right next to you? Either way, she's gone.


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## HiRoad

I dont care what she does. 

Partying for a few hours sure.. but leaving town and staying the night in a hotel.. while MIL watchs kids no. 

Then dont have kids. Give them to me full custody. 

Once you have kids it is no longer about you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TeaLeaves4

unbelievable said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but she filed for divorce. You agree she has left the marriage and both of you are waiting on a piece of paper. Why do you care where she goes or what she does or who she does it with? You are both separated. If you or she go out partying, I don't see how it harms either of you. If the kids stay with granny a few hours, as long as the kids are well cared for, what's the problem? Honestly, what difference does it make whether she not-loves you while partying or if she not-loves you seated right next to you? Either way, she's gone.


I agree.

I don't think it sounds like you love her, so let her go. It really just sounds like you're spiteful. My apologies if I'm wrong.


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## HiRoad

Dont get me wrong i love her.. but learning to love her from 50k feet. I love the person that i married. Not person she is now. She has to show me that she has some responsibilities in the M failing.

She needs to take ownership. Until then she is gone to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

UPDATE:

STBXW texted me this am about the kids p/u this afternoon, which we kind of agreed to , last Su. p/u. I decided to change thier schedule 2wks ago from me having them every weekend to W-Th, and Th-Su.

She was not too thrilled about it but i was firm and she agreed, but wanted to p/u them on Su afternoon.

So, she texted me this moring wanted to know if she is still picking them up this afternoon. I told her we had a party planned at 2pm I wanted to take them too. 

Within seconds she resonded ok, text me when your done with the party and i will pick them up tonight. 

hhhuhhhh?

If she really missed them she would push to see them earlier. The y have daycare W,Th,Fi. That means that aside from 1 hour in the morn and 3 hrs at night she has not seen them for a full day since Tues. 

She dropped them off to daycare Th. early am, and has not seen or heard from them since. She will see them tonight. 

Is this normal for a mom of 2 little ones to just drop her kids off and not ask about them? Is she trusting me more than before? I mean she will see them tonight, Mon, Tue, then they go to daycare Wed. then i pick them up wed. after work (4pm).

I personally think (and so does my IC) that she is suffering from PTSD, or post partum. My IC is certain she is having a manic-depressive episode with hints of BPD. Dont know what to do since we do NOT talk at all now? 

She needs help!

me, i am doing great  My borther and SIL want to buy a house in the same neighborhood that i buy, so our kids who are the same age can grow up together!!!!


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## EleGirl

HiRoad said:


> Guy,
> 
> That is how i feel, here i am sucking it up doing what is right for my kids, while STBXW is out partying it up with her new found freedom.
> 
> That is the whole point of my posUltimatum, try to snap her out of it. She is living a fake $20k/yr millionaire lifestyle that she cant afford.
> 
> I can GURANTEE she will hit rock bottom, and when she does it will hurt, for her. She is on pace for a bankruptcy, failed business, IRS audit, and starting over again.
> 
> Me, I am doing great, getting prepared to buy a new house once the D is final so my kids have some stability.


It does not sound like divorce has been filed. Depending on the state you live in, her financial problems are your financial problems. Have you seen an attorney yet about your rights and how to protect yourself.

If you want to try to save your marriage even after all has happend, the book "Surviving an Affair" would be a lot of help.


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## HiRoad

EleGirl said:


> It does not sound like divorce has been filed. Depending on the state you live in, her financial problems are your financial problems. Have you seen an attorney yet about your rights and how to protect yourself.
> 
> If you want to try to save your marriage even after all has happend, the book "Surviving an Affair" would be a lot of help.


She has filed 9/18 and i responded in the 30 day period, we still have to go to mediation. 

At this point, I LOVE HER with all my heart, but i cannot be with her while she is in the state of mind.

There is no A that i know off, and i have been lookin!

I will look into that book


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## familyfirst09

Hi. I was a WAS and am now a LBS. So I just want to give you my perspective from WAS - say something to her. Have you expressed your feelings and told her what she is doing? If she MLC then she may not understand what she is doing and how it is affecting everyone. My H never said a word to me and I wish he would have. Expose her for what she is doing, but try not to in a mean way. Your wife is not the person you married right now you have to remember that. But you have to at least tell her your thoughts and that you will move on and find someone new if she does not snap out of this. Seek family counselling. And she's living at your mothers house? Or her mothers house?
And when I was MLC-ing I never had another man in my life, its not always about that so if there are no signs then you need to trust that there isn't, otherwise it will only degrade the situation further. Ask her outright if there is, put her on the spot. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

HiRoad said:


> She has filed 9/18 and i responded in the 30 day period, we still have to go to mediation.
> 
> At this point, I LOVE HER with all my heart, but i cannot be with her while she is in the state of mind.
> 
> There is no A that i know off, and i have been lookin!
> 
> I will look into that book


While the book is named "Surviving an Affair", I still think that there is a lot to be learned from it that helps in a lot of situations.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Hi. I was a WAS and am now a LBS. So I just want to give you my perspective from WAS - say something to her. Have you expressed your feelings and told her what she is doing? If she MLC then she may not understand what she is doing and how it is affecting everyone. My H never said a word to me and I wish he would have. Expose her for what she is doing, but try not to in a mean way. Your wife is not the person you married right now you have to remember that. But you have to at least tell her your thoughts and that you will move on and find someone new if she does not snap out of this. Seek family counselling. And she's living at your mothers house? Or her mothers house?
> And when I was MLC-ing I never had another man in my life, its not always about that so if there are no signs then you need to trust that there isn't, otherwise it will only degrade the situation further. Ask her outright if there is, put her on the spot. Good luck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FF, this really resignated with me, i have urges to call her all the time (we text only, and rarely)but i stop myself.

I was figuring to let her go through xmas and see has she does. THen after the holidays it will be like 3.5mnths seperated. I was thing of one last hoorahh, and then try to talk to her. 

When she dropped the bomb we were preparing to move into my MIL's house while we buy a new one.

If then she is still cold and set in getting the D so be it.


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## familyfirst09

I would talk to her sooner than later. Talk to her then go dark and limit all contact as much as you can. Does she blame you for a lot of things? If so, own up to them. Why would you want to wait until after the holidays? Christmas is about family, maybe that will help her see more clearly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

> I was a WAS and am now a LBS.


What is a LBS?


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## familyfirst09

Left behind spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I would talk to her sooner than later. Talk to her then go dark and limit all contact as much as you can. Does she blame you for a lot of things? If so, own up to them. Why would you want to wait until after the holidays? Christmas is about family, maybe that will help her see more clearly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You think so Huh? It will be 3 months physically and totally seperated as of tomorrow.

Of course she blames me for everything, i was "checked out of the M" I golfed too much, drank too much, and neglected her. All things that i recongnized and she said she was "done" that she had tried for a year and a half,, blah blah blah BS. 

I am 180ing my a$$ off, feel 10x's better. I was def. in a quasi-depression. I am ok to let her go. To me she has to realize what she is doing, hit rock bottom.

IDK, we just made the xmas schedule too.


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## familyfirst09

I really do think so. My H never said a word to me and pretty much "condoned" my actions when I was MLC-ing. Unknown to me he was sharing his thoughts and feelings with OW. That was my reality check mid August. If I would have known sooner how he felt, if we would have just communicated, the pain and misery we and my D are going through now could have been avoided. So I would say something sooner than later. 
And your "blah blah blah" does not sound like you are taking ownership of your part in the marriage breaking down. Its important that you do this and that she knows you accept some of the responsibility. It takes two to make it AND to break it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I really do think so. My H never said a word to me and pretty much "condoned" my actions when I was MLC-ing. Unknown to me he was sharing his thoughts and feelings with OW. That was my reality check mid August. If I would have known sooner how he felt, if we would have just communicated, the pain and misery we and my D are going through now could have been avoided. So I would say something sooner than later.
> And your "blah blah blah" does not sound like you are taking ownership of your part in the marriage breaking down. Its important that you do this and that she knows you accept some of the responsibility. It takes two to make it AND to break it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FF i totally agree! I am getting to the point of no return, and i can NOT believe that my STBXW would be ok with letting me go and then i eventually I will move on meet someone new, and the kids (3 & 1.5) will have a stepmom.

As far as the blah blah blah, yes in the first month of S i owned up to everything, sincerly! She was cold as ice, did not care at all. 

I figured after that first month of me trying i would pull back, and it is funny, it seems to have backfired at least a little bit, she stopped sending pics of the kids, stopped texting me about them, and stopped talking. We are def. in NC.

However, all the while i can see what she has been doing. She does not know i have access to her back accounts still. I see her spending alot of money, but yet tells me she has none. 

I think that she is def in a MLC (even though she is 30). Mayabe it is due to having 2 babies in 3 years, or iraq (PTSD), my therapist def. thinks it is a manic-depression or a little of BPD.

Maybe in the spirit of the holidays, and for you/me, i will try again.


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## HiRoad

How did you find out he was talking to OW? Were you too S, physically?


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## familyfirst09

I have learned that MLC can really occur at any age, all depends on life circumstances. Mine started when I was 37. Where are your children?
Have you read Divorce Remedy yet? Its a good book, whether you are still going to fight or move on. Also 5 Love Languages. 

We were not physically separated, he only moved out and in with OW 3 weeks ago. I found out about her when he didn't come home one night. I didn't know he was sharing his thoughts with her before then and I really don't know how it was going on.

I plan on staying dark until his birthday next week and then I am presenting him with a letter (my thread has more details). Then I am going to go completely dark. It'll be hard because of Christmas but I'm doing this for me and my daughter. So I am giving it two more "techniques". First the letter then the last-last resort technique.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I have learned that MLC can really occur at any age, all depends on life circumstances. Mine started when I was 37. Where are your children?
> Have you read Divorce Remedy yet? Its a good book, whether you are still going to fight or move on. Also 5 Love Languages.
> 
> We were not physically separated, he only moved out and in with OW 3 weeks ago. I found out about her when he didn't come home one night. I didn't know he was sharing his thoughts with her before then and I really don't know how it was going on.
> 
> I plan on staying dark until his birthday next week and then I am presenting him with a letter (my thread has more details). Then I am going to go completely dark. It'll be hard because of Christmas but I'm doing this for me and my daughter. So I am giving it two more "techniques". First the letter then the last-last resort technique.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well my WAW is 30, in the last 1.5 yrs we had our second child, opened a new business, had my SIL and her family live with us, financianl stres, and was rainsing my oldest (18mnths old at the time).

My kids currently are split between her and I. I have them w-f, then th-su.

I have read DR 5x's, DB, 5Loves, Morts Book, and many others, and i am attending IC, and doing a marriage seminar by myself.

My WAW dropped the bomb on me 9/18, i moved (out of MIL's house) out imediatley at her request. We have been S 3mnths. The first month she still has a lot of raw emotions, and was very angry and resentful. I sent a card, and a long letter. Got no response. 

She was pushing to get this done with fast, we argued about custody and finances, so i pulled back, and went to LRT.

I went to NC/LC, 180, and at times dark. But like i said before she also pulled back to.

We have been on texting terms execept for 3 times that we talked on the phone about business stuff. We know only talk about our kids on exchanges.

As a man, i think you need to show him that he is losing you and his family. And act happy, cheerful, energized. He knows that you are still there. But the moment he gets the feeling that he is losing you he will snap out of it. Sometimes, we men, dont like to see what was ours get takin away. It is a possesive thing.

Dont beg or be to clingy, you know what i mean.

My plan is since we have kids xmas party friday, i will see her there, i will dress to impress, smell good, look good, and be a gentlemen. Make it hard for her.

Then after xmas, if nothing comes from her, then i will talk to her about us, MAYBE, give it one last try.


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## familyfirst09

What are the other books that you have read? 
It doesn't sound like you are entirely sure you want to reconcile?
The letter I am giving to him is my apology letter and explanation letter. It will be the last apology I give him. He is still filled with a lot of anger and hatrid but I can't worry about that anymore. I have to learn to forgive myself so I can be happy for myself and my daughter. It could very well be a new year and a new life for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And good for you for stepping up with your kids. My H has done a lot of ****ty things to our D since this started, barely sees her and there's no arrangement for visits. He says D is "his priority" but his actions speak louder than words. Even when I was MLC-ing, my D was always a priority, and will always be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> What are the other books that you have read?
> It doesn't sound like you are entirely sure you want to reconcile?
> The letter I am giving to him is my apology letter and explanation letter. It will be the last apology I give him. He is still filled with a lot of anger and hatrid but I can't worry about that anymore. I have to learn to forgive myself so I can be happy for myself and my daughter. It could very well be a new year and a new life for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Other Books, Men are from mars women venus, hope filled marriage, how to get any one to fall in love with you. 

I would love to reconcile, however not with the person she is currently. 

She is acting very irresponsible and impulsive. She needs help, I am not sure i can do that for her. That is how we got in the bad spot to begin with. I am in a good place, have goals set, ideas to try, and kids that need a stable encviroment.

My STBXW was filled with ALOT of anger, resentment, and distrust too. I also gave her appolgy letter and card too. Be prepared, if your H is anything like my W, you will get no repsonse.

Look no one deserves to be cheated on, you cannot blame yourself. He will have to live with his decision. It will be hard as he!! to do. I speak from experience, i had a GF for 5yrs before i met my W. We had a house, and life together. When I left for the last time she did NC, and wnet out and enjoyed other mens company. Something clicked and for ONCE i started to pursue her!


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## familyfirst09

I gave my H a letter in early september on the advice of my therapist. The letter was about what I valued in him and what our future could look like. This letter is different and I've had 3 months to really digest what I did and why I did it, back then I didn't know and in a way I still don't really know. 
And no I don't want my H back as he is now, but your wife is not her true self right now. She will eventually and hopefully you won't be gone by then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And no he didn't respond to the first letter. He kept the card and the picture that was in and told me he still had the letter, I'm not sure I ever believed him and think he threw it out but I'm not sure. He kept the card and pic on his night table in the spare room where he was sleeping when he lived here. When he moved out he left the card and took the pic (it was a pic of me, him and our D on her adoption day). He says he has it in his workvan (I highly doubt the OW would want a pic of me hanging in her house)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I gave my H a letter in early september on the advice of my therapist. The letter was about what I valued in him and what our future could look like. This letter is different and I've had 3 months to really digest what I did and why I did it, back then I didn't know and in a way I still don't really know.
> And no I don't want my H back as he is now, but your wife is not her true self right now. She will eventually and hopefully you won't be gone by then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like you are on the seesaw. 

I hope and pray that my STBXW turns a new leaf and does some serious self replection, the best xmas present she could give our kids, is a happy co-independent mommy and daddy.

My greatest advisary and asset is patience. 

"Love is patient" 1 Corithians 13, easier said than done.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> And no he didn't respond to the first letter. He kept the card and the picture that was in and told me he still had the letter, I'm not sure I ever believed him and think he threw it out but I'm not sure. He kept the card and pic on his night table in the spare room where he was sleeping when he lived here. When he moved out he left the card and took the pic (it was a pic of me, him and our D on her adoption day). He says he has it in his workvan (I highly doubt the OW would want a pic of me hanging in her house)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In our first month of separation i wrote her two cards and a letter, none of which i got a response from.

She was very cold and heartless.


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## HiRoad

*UPDATE:*

Well talked to my therapist last nite and gave her the update of whats going on with STBXW (have had this therapist for 5yrs). She is soo good, she reiterated what everyone has been sating her, stay on the 180 for ME, NC, be happy when i see her, and let her go.

She also said based on the facts that I explained to her about my wifes spending and partying that she has manic-depression and BPD2. That eventually my STBXW will come down from this "high" and will crash hard. That is when the WAW begins to feel remorse, guilt, and pain. She believes that is when STBXW will question her decisions that she made so impulsivley. 

My therapist said to watch her from the sidelines and wait. As hard as it is that i want to intervene, I must not, it will only make me look bad. She suggested that i may want to extend the invite for xmas but cautioned about this as it may seem like i am "wanting' her back. We both agreed that my STBXW made her decission and now she must see what life will be like from now on.


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## Toffer

HiRoad,

have you talked to a lawyer?

You future financial life depends on it! If she is spending like you say, you may be responsible for half the debts she is now incurring! She may also be spending half the assets of the business that you may be entitled to!

Be sure her name is off all joint credit cards and that if you have any joint bank accounts that you take half the money in them and put them in an account with only your name on it!


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## HiRoad

Toffer said:


> HiRoad,
> 
> have you talked to a lawyer?
> 
> You future financial life depends on it! If she is spending like you say, you may be responsible for half the debts she is now incurring! She may also be spending half the assets of the business that you may be entitled to!
> 
> Be sure her name is off all joint credit cards and that if you have any joint bank accounts that you take half the money in them and put them in an account with only your name on it!


No Lawyer. 

DONE already, she has shi!!y credit so everything was already in my name, and she cant touch it. That business is in her and my MIL's name.

She spends all this from her business account. I am watching her slowly drain her business!

She has hit "iceberg" and the boat is starting to fill with water!


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## familyfirst09

Do you feel you are slowly getting to the point of reconciliation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

So i have been paying all of OUR billd for the last 3mnths. We have not set mediation yet but plan to in january. So i approach my stbxw about HER student loans bills and told her that she owed for the last 3mnths. She agreed to pay the 338. Now, we also racked up some cc debt too. 

So i asked her if she would sell her ring to help pay some bills and pay down debt. She said, "no its not an option to sell". Huuuuh? Let me check.. you are divorcing me and the ring is a symbol of our marriage... since the marriage is over and you claim you hav no $$$ then sell it.

The kicker is i after i ask her that she must of been hangin out with friends b/	c she went shopping.. out to dinner.... and got her nails done.. for $200. Whaaaa? 

My stbxw has lost her mind!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

You are really not going to call her out on this? You know she's doing this and you're not going to say anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> So i have been paying all of OUR billd for the last 3mnths. We have not set mediation yet but plan to in january. So i approach my stbxw about HER student loans bills and told her that she owed for the last 3mnths. She agreed to pay the 338. Now, we also racked up some cc debt too.
> 
> So i asked her if she would sell her ring to help pay some bills and pay down debt. She said, "no its not an option to sell". Huuuuh? Let me check.. you are divorcing me and the ring is a symbol of our marriage... since the marriage is over and you claim you hav no $$$ then sell it.
> 
> The kicker is i after i ask her that she must of been hangin out with friends b/c she went shopping.. out to dinner.... and got her nails done.. for $200. Whaaaa?
> 
> My stbxw has lost her mind!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about you balls up and just stop paying her share'


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## Stella Moon

HiRoad said:


> Sounds like you are on the seesaw.
> 
> I hope and pray that my STBXW turns a new leaf and does some serious self replection, the best xmas present she could give our kids, is a happy co-independent mommy and daddy.
> 
> My greatest advisary and asset is patience.
> 
> *"Love is patient" 1 Corithians 13, easier said than done*.


yea. sure is.


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## HiRoad

FF09 and upn, the problem is that everything is in my name, so i say i am not going to pay her half then i am hosing myself. But anything that is fully in her name i have given back to her.

Also, she does not know i still have access to the business account. I am watching her behavior and documenting it, so if/when a time comes, i have tracked her spending habits (which are outa control) to show the court, "she says she has no $$, but spends $000's out her business account?"


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## familyfirst09

Ok, that's good then. I still think you should call her out.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> You are really not going to call her out on this? You know she's doing this and you're not going to say anything?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FF09, i really am at a loss, my STBXW is soo lost that I have no choice than to completely let her go. We do not talk at all, we text business only, she is spending out of control, and it appears that her financial future will be bleak.

If this is what she wants, then she can have it.

Why would i want to be apart of that? My goal is to buy a new home and my SIL and brother want to buy in the same niegborhood as I, so that our kids (who are the same ages) can grow-up together. 

She is def in MLC mode (even tho she is 30) i think her family background, Iraq, getting married at 24, having 2 kids in 3 yrs, and opening a business while prego has got her head F'd up.

I think it is going to take me meeting someone new to snap her out of it.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Ok, that's good then. I still think you should call her out.


Why? What does this accomplish?


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## familyfirst09

Sometimes people don't realize how stupid they are being until someone actually says "you're being stupid". It may not accomplish anything at all but at least hiroad would have the ability to say "I told you so" with his head held high when she does crash and burn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Sometimes people don't realize how stupid they are being until someone actually says "you're being stupid". It may not accomplish anything at all but at least hiroad would have the ability to say "I told you so" with his head held high when she does crash and burn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i was planning to hold on the information on her spending an lies till after mediation, then do the reaveal. 

I really dont think anything i do will snap her out of it, although, my feelings try to tell me that i can talk her out of it but i doubt it. 

On a side not, i asked her yesterday is we could sell her ring to pay down some debt, of course she said no, and it was not an option. I asked if she sold it already and she said no. The problem is, when we were still M and she was getting us into the hole she offered to sell her ring and get a cheap one. Also since i have caught her in lies, and was not the lieing type, makes me think she probably sold it already or why would she want to keep it.


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## familyfirst09

I guess im not to the point of believing me NOT saying anything will help and that saying something WILL help to my H. Hopefully I will start leaning the other way very soon.
Ask to see the ring. My H actually stole my engagement ring and sold it without me knowing.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I guess im not to the point of believing me NOT saying anything will help and that saying something WILL help to my H. Hopefully I will start leaning the other way very soon.
> Ask to see the ring. My H actually stole my engagement ring and sold it without me knowing.


I understand where you are coming from FF09, that maybe there is something that you can SAY that can pursuade your H to change his mind. 

I dont think that words alone will fix the problem with our STBX's we have the power to work on ourselves to take ACTION that will make a difference on ourselves and children

I was pissed last night about the whole ring situation, but now, I really dont care what she does with it. It just solidifies to me how selfish she really is being. One day when this is all over and i move on, she may realize that the material things in life are not permanent.


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## hope4family

Unless you gain a distinct advantage in proving her infidelity by the states law. There really is no point in it either unless you have people saying how "you should be the one reconciling."

Personally I would keep it to myself as well. But remember, to expose it at some point. You DO NOT have to carry her mistakes.


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## familyfirst09

I know everyone gets to that point at their own pace, but how long do you think it has taken you to get to the point where you are at?


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## hope4family

That point? Is at your own pace. 

When I started it off. I knew there was another man. She is living with him. Everyone of her family insists its just a friend. Honestly, I dont give two ****s if she had an affair or not. She walked away from me and my child. 

However, as time has moved on. Sometimes the question "why" comes up. I am not 100% on it yet, but I may order her text messages just for the peace of mind. 

What prevents me? Well, if it walks like a duck, has a bill like a duck, swims like a duck, eats like a duck, webbed feet like a duck, has feathers, and quacks. What more do I need? 

This being said, before she moved out, if I would have come home and found another man in the house. I would have felt very happy about it. Asked him and her to leave before I call the cops, and that I wish them well together. 

Happy only because all my suffering would at least have a reason.


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## HiRoad

Hope - no infedility yet, she is just really sick, my therapist is certain it is mainc depression. Sure i was not perfect in the last 1.5yrs, and sure i was having anxiety and depression. But i snapped out of it when she left. Yes, i agree to keep it to myself until i get what i want.

FF09 - i have been seperated on my way to D for 3 months, out of the blue. It took alot of reading, researching, and watching what she does to get to this point. Dont get me wrong i still love her, and it is hard as he!!. Even today I want to call her and talk to her and see if i can "fix" this, but i refrain. Just have to take it one day at a time. I believe in gods plan, and i know there is a reason i am going through this right now.


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## hope4family

To be truthful, I would like to believe that my wife suffers from manic depression. Man that would be so nice. One day, in an effort to be truthful and forthcoming before she moved out. I asked (since she has been depressed as long as I have known her.) if she would be open to the idea that she might in fact be clinically depressed? 

Her answer at the time was hell no. Three days before she told me she wanted to reconcile she said she was open to that thought. But I could only tell her that she must go to and get checked out for that at her dime. Said she couldn't afford it, and thats been it. 

May God forgive me if that was a mistake. It felt too much like a script, especially with her wanting to reconcile, but not really changing her mind on how she felt about me.


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## HiRoad

Good for you Hope for being firm and coming from a standpoint of strength! I am affraid that the same thing may happen to me, she may see all the positive changes that i have made in my life since the seperation and then she will want to come back with all her baggae. 

I am certain if i do not see that changes that I would like in her then my answer would be the same as yours, a resonding NO. As much as it will hurt, and i want to be back with her, she has to make some changes too.


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## HiRoad

*UPDATE*

The kids had thier annual daycare xmas party (this is a big deal) and my daycare provider spared no expenses as usual. The agenda included all the parents of the daycare kids and a visit from ol st nick, with presents for all the kids.

I was in charge of bringing a sidedish and my STBXW was in charge of bring the presents for the kids (you have to bring presents ahead of time so santa can hand them out when he arrives). 

Day of party the 14th, my mom goes to get services at STBXW business in the afternoon. Mom texts me and tells me that STBXW was talking about not being able to make it to the party, maybe becuase she might stay and work late. Im like, ok, lets wait and see what she does. Party starts at 6pm sharp, ol st nick will show up at 645sharp.

I get ready, look good, dress good, smell good, haircut, etc. as recommended by Bigmac, I followed the recommendations as noted above. 

About 20 till 6, i am on my way to the party, STBXW texts me and says "not going to make it, MIL will be there to pick the kids up. Still at work" She f*$#ing flakes on the kids xmas party!!! So I respond "Really??? Wish you would of told me ahead of time. I have to get them gifts to take to the party. Tell MIL its ok. I can take the kids until you get of work, or they can stay the night". She tells me (and i confirm with daycare) that STBXW dropped the kids presents off with her a week ago. So i say"ok... text me when your on your way tonite. Ill have the kids ready for bed" STBXW "ok".

The party goes great! Kids have a blast! Saw santa and he gave them thier gifts! We leave at 745.

STBXW texts at 750pm "just keep the kids tonite i will get them in the morning, i will leave a check at my house" I told her she owes me for some bills i paid for HER. I tell her "ok.. text me .. we will meet up tomorrow"

Ok, i cant believe she put HERSELF in front of her own children! Extremely selfish! Second, she is suppose to have them for the weekend starting friday night, i dont mind having them more, point being that she prob. wanted to go out. 

So i have them over night and last text i hear from her for the night is "how did it go" i saide "good", that is all i hear from her for the night.

Now, the next morning i go to work for a few hours early am have my mom watch kdis for a few, get home, no word from STBXW. So we go out and run a few errands, kids and I. Then STBXW texts at 1045 "How are kids? I can meet you now but where?" I dont answer right away, as i am busy and dont have my phone, so 15 minutes later i see i have a missed call (her). So i text back "There good... lets meet in a hour at starbucks" STBXW "No i need to pick them up now" "I can pick them up wherver you are" Me, Do you need me to have them longer" STBX,"No i want my children" Me, Ok... give me a little time. I can meet you at starbucks in 30 min" STBXW " are you out of town?" Me "No" STBXW,"Then why cant i just pick them up? I dont care where you are i just want to get the kids" Me,"can you give me 30 min" STBXW,"Whatever thats fine"

My therapist warned me to beware that with manic depressives their moods swing back and forth, from extremes. 

My STBXW has lost her marbles! So we meet she gives me some $$$ and we keep it about the kids and not one word from her. Me i was cool, calm, dispassionate! The crazy thing is, i know she has to work today, so she is just picking the kids up to go to MIL's house.


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## familyfirst09

Aren't you afraid that the kids are alone with her in the state she is in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Familyfirst09 - I think the answer here is "of course." But there isn't much that can be done until papers are signed likely. What's he going to do/refuse her? That wont look good come judge time. 

Hiroad, if you are already beyond that point, then I apologize. Good on you for staying firm on a meeting place.


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## HiRoad

We have not set a mediation date as of yet, but plan to after xmas. Although her moods swing back and forth, I am able to get what i want. In the beginning she was very emotional and defensive, told me at one point that most dads see thier kids every other weekend (which i know is BS), b/c I have a good job, am responsible, and treat the kids good.


FF09, she still takes responsibility for the kids, but i feel at worst she would just dump them on MIL or SIL.


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## HiRoad

My 180 progress is doing good, there is a BUT, but i still have feelings for STBXW and still have urges to text her and open up the lines of communication. 

Is this the right thing to do, or do i stay dark.

*UPDATE*
This weekend i went to a best friends xmas party. He is the same age as me and been D from his W for 1.5yrs. Also, his roommate is also D from his wife 1 yr. Both have a kid (8 & 4). Live in downtown, in a nice house, living the dream. The have a huge group of freinds, new GF's (that are smokin hot), and see there kids 50%. So we all took a pic and his GF uploaded it to FB, and tagged me. I am sure my STBXW will see it at some point, but this is the first type of activity on my FB account in 3 months, and since i went DARK. 

Dont know how it will be recieved, but it is part of MY 180.


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## hope4family

I hate social media for this purpose hiroad. While I have no problem with you enjoying yourself on your own time. I don't want people getting the impression you are a party animal. 

My suggestion is to keep the 180 going. Enjoy your life. Do not text, do not call, go dark. If you want her back, remember she has to love and miss you. You already brought the necessary components into the relationship for the long term. It is time for her to do the work and "bring it" if its to work. 

When you feel like you need to text/call/anything. Post here, it's your outlet. I'll keep an eye on this thread to encourage you as I go through the same emotional roller coaster. 

Remember this, on the roller coaster of life, recognize that your emotions are going up and down. Try to use your non-emotional thinking to discern why contacting your wife is bad. 

Finally. I know you love her, and want to support her. (You married her for that reason right?) You likely want to stick by your vows. Recognize that she is not married to you. If she wants to come back, she needs to bring something to the table other then her "physical appearance." 

Yeah, she needs to bring, love, companionship, and all the things you enjoy about her. But the no 1 thing she needs to bring is RESOLVE to stay married to you. Something she isn't showing you.


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## HiRoad

Hope, thank you this is really a good post! I hate FB for that reason too, but I have been inactive for such a long time. Also the party was not like a college party, it was more a socialite party, we all were dressed nice ( i had a tie on too)

My rationaly side of me thinks exactly the way you do, do no contact her at all, make her do the work to make it work if she dicides too. I will be ok with out her! I am a good looking, successful dad, with ALOT of potential. She is the one who has commitment issues. 

But this is all easier said than done!! Thank you for your support!


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## familyfirst09

I'm in agreement about FB. As soon as all this started for me, I went off and haven't been back on. I do agree it is a good way for your W to see you are moving on tho, nothing wrong with a pic clean pic (no women or alcohol). I too feel the urges to contact H but tend to give into them still which I know I shouldn't. I have to train my brain as coachman said. Very tough to do. 
You sound very confident and sure of yourself hiroad, so very good for you. I can't wait to get there!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And glad to hear she still takes responsibility for the kids and also has safe back up. I worry a lot about H stability and being alone with D. But he hasn't made an effort in 5 months to be alone with her so now its just the norm. My axiety goes through the roof when I think about him being alone with her now because I don't know if he's just gonna ask out of the blue to take her and I can't say no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Sorry for the triple post . Were there any good books that you have read hiroad? Around self confidence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF09, i have read too much lately, as xmas is around the corner and i have been really busy at work (putting in alot of OT), but i have been consistent about loggin on here and posting.

It is theraputic to post here. I am still doing IC and have a marriage webinar that i am still doing. 

The pic was of ppl that she nows and does not know, so if she does see it she will see some friends. Also it was of alot of us and all you see of me is my head and left side. So cant make much of it. however they were all holding a toast (except for me, i quit drinking).

I am confident because ofthe 180, it gives me the strength. Also going to the gym is great too. But i am human and have feelings, and there are times that i start to focus on the pain. It is like anything else that you do, if you train long enough, you can learn to stop the pain. But it is hard, has not been easy at all. Especially when my kids ask questions. And i have to tell them what is going on. 

Actually i am going to head to the gym now. i will be back on in a few hours.


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## familyfirst09

A lot of my new activities don't start up until the new year, I know that will help. Even D's activities that keep us both busy are over til then. So its gonna be a struggle through the holidays. Just want them over. I get lost in my thoughts a lot and I'm trying to learn to stop them. So very hard. You give me hope HiRoad 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And your description of your pic sounds great. If she sees it, I bet it will affect her in some way. Good for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Thanks FF09. Together we will get through this .. remember there are worse things that csn happen. Stay strong post here
and you deserve better and your D deserves better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

That has always been my saying "it could always be worse". I know both D and I deserve better, I just wish he would get better. Wishful thinking I know. Can't wait for the new year to begin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I need to STOP checking my wifes account, i see things that make me think the worst! She went to the dr. yesterday. Why? To get a check-up, get a prescritpion (birth control? she has not been on anything for years), maybe depression meds, flu, hurt. 

I dont know?? This 180 thing can be tuff! 

Ahhh, who cares! I will find someone better than her that cares enough to be with me and care for my family and children.

There are women out there that fit that, right?


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## NoWhere

HiRoad said:


> I need to STOP checking my wifes account, i see things that make me think the worst! She went to the dr. yesterday. Why? To get a check-up, get a prescritpion (birth control? she has not been on anything for years), maybe depression meds, flu, hurt.
> 
> I dont know?? This 180 thing can be tuff!
> 
> Ahhh, who cares! I will find someone better than her that cares enough to be with me and care for my family and children.
> 
> There are women out there that fit that, right?


Nope all the good guys and gals were cheated on, divorced and ended up on this forum licking their wounds.  

Yeah you need to stop looking at her account. I'm sure you already have enough stored up in your head to make you think about her. Don't need to add any fuel to that fire.


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## hope4family

It can be hard. I remember seeing the insurance statements in the mail. It was really hard on me as an individual coming to the realization that this person was trying to get their benefit "before you cut them off" as my s2bx said to me.


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## HiRoad

You all are right, but what makes it worst is WHY is she going to the Dr., i automatically think she is getting on birth control b/c she with somebody. 

Is'nt sick how the mind thinks that automatically?


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## hope4family

To be fair, that's (birth control IUD) the exact same reason my s2bxw went to the doctor. Her reason was "helping her depression". Whatever. I always had to worry about it. Guess the next man wont.


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## familyfirst09

There are definitely women out there like that 

And I do believe one rule of going dark is "no snooping". I've been good at this. I ask myself "do I want to know the answer and will it possibly hurt me worse" and if it could I don't ask or look. H left his blackberry at my house one night. Its password protected but I could have looked at the media card if there was one. But I just put it in the garage and left it. I was proud of myself for that one!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

yes, FF09, your right. I need to stop, i go days sometimes w/o checking it, but ultimately check it. 

Freakin, hate this game. I love my kids, and if they were not involved it would be much easier. But i feel a sense of loyalty to them and that I owe it to the kids to try and make thing right w/ mommy.

Doing nothing (180 & NC) feels so counter intuitive.


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## familyfirst09

I know exactly how you feel, its horrible and you're way better at this than I am!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Thanks FF09, it is NOT easy at all, I still think about her everyday. I still pray for her everyday. I still think she is making a big mistake. 

I want to tell her soo bad "do you understand that one day, i will meet a beautiful loving women that will be happy to step into your role!?!" "Is this what you really want?"

But i do NOTHING!?! Crazy


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## familyfirst09

I wish my H would have said that to me  and now I'm the one who wants to say it to him. Stay strong, you're just having a down day, if you don't do or say anything, tomorrow you will get up and feel much better and proud of yourself for not doing anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And just for the record, no I don't not think OW is a beautiful loving woman, she's a home wrecker who is taking advantage of a man who is confused and vulnerable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Thanks FF09, it is NOT easy at all, I still think about her everyday. I still pray for her everyday. I still think she is making a big mistake.
> 
> I want to tell her soo bad "do you understand that one day, i will meet a beautiful loving women that will be happy to step into your role!?!" "Is this what you really want?"
> 
> But i do NOTHING!?! Crazy


Friend we are here for you. Just last night prayed and cried myself to sleep hoping that she comes to her senses. We are all pretty powerless during this stage. Keep the focus on the family you have.


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## familyfirst09

I second that motion. The family WE HAVE.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Stay dark Hi and unless you need something for court then no snooping. I want to look at my STBXW brand new facebook account so bad but I refuse to. I have access to her phone records as I still foot the bill but I refuse to. 180 man. Live it.


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## HiRoad

Thanks everyone. These are just some of the struggles that I deal with. I am still 180ing my a$$ off but is NOT easy by any means.

I am def. in NC DARK mode. Doesnt feel right, but i am still doing it. I almost wanted to text her "good night" tonite or at least ask to tell my kids good night, but i know that is an excuse to talk to her. 

*UPDATE*

My borther and SIL just come over tonite, w/ my mom and grandmother, to tell me that they are having another baby! I was first to know! Wow that means my two kids (3 & 1.5) will have another cousin to play with! Another nephew or niece! My bro has a little girl that is adorable 1.5 also! My STBXW will find out eventually, but it may be a while.


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## hope4family

Mine got angry that I didn't send periodic updates on child. So what I did was IF there is a life changing event. i send her a message, IE child is sick. I am watching over them. Don't worry. 

Thats all I say. No more or less. I will send an update when child is better. But thats only because she requested it as such. It's 99.999% business the other .001% is the awkward I hate all this pit in my stomach. 

Just saying, your in good company. I relate.


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## HiRoad

Thanks Hope. I cant help but think what my STBXW is missing, but o well not my problem anymore. like we all say here on TAM, she made her bed.


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## hope4family

Mine uses that "i'm missing everything with child" card. Its a guilt trip dude. In my case she walked away. Period. It should not be my fault one way or the other. 

She guilt tripped me once for taking the child to an amusement park. Guilt tripped me for taking child to see Christmas lights, guilt tripped me for spending so much time with my family that hates her, it will not end. If your s2bxw isn't trying to guilt you at the moment count it a blessing.


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## HiRoad

Still no word from the STBXW! I am suppose to have my kids tomorrow (th - sun). Which is a good thing. I am really getting into my routine, working out, hanging out with some old friends. 

With my brother having a new baby on the way, we will be pretty busy this year.


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## familyfirst09

Were you supposed to hear from her? How do you guys do the exchange? Keep up the good work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Well, i dont think so. I guess not hearing from her is not something that i am nto used to, yet


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## HiRoad

*UPDATE*

Well today my mom and cousin (who are clients still of my wife) recieved an Happy Holidays e-card with a pciture of my STBXW and kids. 

Wierd that she sends my family a e-card like that, what about my other family? I guess the family that she THINKS is supporting her business get a e-card, the others not.

Whatever


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## HiRoad

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE..

I think my STBXW flew out of town. I checked the business account and see two charges for 2 diff. airlines. On top of that i picked up my kids and the first thing the say was "we were at mommys friends house, he is big like daddy" Huuuhhh, i know i am probably overreacting and i am sure it is a friend. IF, this is a big IF, she is seeing a OM with my kids there I will tell her i am not ok with that!


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## familyfirst09

She would just fly out of town the weekend before xmas?? Are you going to ask about the "friend"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Ok, so she did not fly out of town for the weekend like i thought. I was over reacting. As far as the "friend", if there is one, I dont care. I am watching from 50k feet. 

*UPDATE*

She is text me today to tell me that the daycare rates are going up, and wants to have her sister (who just lost her job) watch the kids. She even suggested that the kids could go to my brothers wifes daycare that she runs out of her house. 

I think i am going to tell her that she can do with them what she wants on her time, when they are with me i will pay for daycare during the week.


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## familyfirst09

Will daycare allow that? Keep strong, you give me hope 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Of course they will. 

But i am trying to figure out how to get what i want with out a fight, i have to make it look like it was her idea.

She actually suggested my brothers wifes daycare.

It is all a matter of agreeing with her and seeming indifferent to her ideas.

cannot follow my feelings, so bad i want to ask her "are you sure this is what you want"


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## familyfirst09

So why do you want to keep the kids in daycare for your days? And did she why she wanted them to go elsewhere? Seems odd considering its YOUR brothers wife?? Would the commute/travel to get the kids to daycare be different? 

I am a huge "are you sure?" Person!! Its very hard not to do that. Its one of my 180s lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Oh sorry, missed the part where she said it was because the rates are going up. If she's spending money like she is, higher bills are going to stress her out even more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

i have to work during the week

basically i can see that she is running low on money and cant afford to pay day care, on top of the money i give her.

Plus the kids would love to be with aunty and uncle.

It is not my fault that her spending is starting to catch up with her.

She is starting to feel the ramifications of her ways.

Especially, since i am not there to bail her out. 

She is on her own now.


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## familyfirst09

Aren't you worried that the debt she is accumulating you may be responsible for? Even if they're in here name, if they're accumulated while still married, you may responsible for half. I'm starting to think about that now with H's credit card, they called again today. 
Have you spoken with a lawyer yet hiroad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

My thought is since she served me papers and i repsonded, from that point whatever she does is on her.

Am I worried, not really, she is very hard-headed and is certain she can do this on her own. To prove to herself and everyone that she can do this on her own.

I have not talked to a lawyer yet, she has been pretty amicable.


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## familyfirst09

How did you respond to the papers? I was that way too, thought I needed to "prove" to everyone I could do it. Now I have to in a different way. It sucks. She'll figure that out eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I just responded and that was it

Taked (text)to her tonite about xmas arrangements. Still craxy to me that she is still soo cold. Business only when we text. This is the life she noe wants? I will be happy to give it too her. I am confident in 2 years time i will move on and eventually find a great women. I pray for mas she gets her sh!t together and does her own 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

God 2 years, seems impossible to me...but glad you are so confident!! Shell regret what she has lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Its not that i am confident it is reality. I will not be alone the rest of my life. 

Sad part is, by that time she may figure it out, realize what destruction she caused and what life is really about.

Sad to think that some people have to loose something before they realize what they had was special.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stella Moon

HiRoad said:


> Its not that i am confident it is reality. I will not be alone the rest of my life.
> 
> Sad part is, by that time she may figure it out, realize what destruction she caused and what life is really about.
> 
> *Sad to think that some people have to loose something before they realize what they had was special.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


Do they though? Do they realize it? I often wonder if my ex will 'get it'...I'm told so often by my friends how his next woman is going to have pretty big shoes to fill (emphasizing how good i was to him and how spoiled he was) ...and on the other hand I hear how a guy like mine (passive aggressive naccissist) will never 'get it'...because they are so self-centered and have so much pride. Do all people 'get it'?? Will my guy 'get it'? I mean realize how good he had it? He's not going to be able to just 'replace' me...
I wonder this often...dude was spoiled to no end...did everything for him...daaaang...I was a fool...


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## HiRoad

Stella.. i am sorry to hear that. I hope that they realize someday. My wife can be pretty hard headed too. Once she makes a decidion hats it good or bad she sticks with it.

I firmly believe at some point they will feel the pain. If not at least live the rest of thier lives doing the same thing over and over again. Using people over and over.

At least you can makes a change for you! You deserve better! Cliche, but true. I tell myself this sll the time. I deserve better.. to be treated better, to be loved better, and to be with a bettet partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

I don't think they will get it until it all comes crashing down. I know when I was MLC-ing, I felt guilt and pain, it was horrible but I just didn't "get it". And maybe now I'm starting to realize that I did get it and that I left for a reason but only time will tell. None the less, none of our WAS will "get it" until they are ready to and in some cases, that just may very well be never or may be too late because we will all have better people in our lives. 2013 will be the year to better ourselves!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

For those of you who follow this thread i will repost here this:

Ok needless to say my christmas was full of suprises, in order to fully understand i will walk you through the last four days:

12/23 - usually my day with the kids, but STBXW wanted to p/u the kids early to have a xmas with FIL and family early (since i have the emas eve and xmas morn). We see each other on the kid exchange, chat a bit about $$ and kids, not much to disucss there.

12/24 - I p/u kids at 8pm to go to my familys house, lots of us there about 30. My STBXW bought some gifts for her neice (my brothers kid) and a gift for me and my mom. I can tell she did this last minute b/c the gift for my niece is not wrapped she just hands it to me and says she did not have time to wrap it. Gives my my gift, which is folded in tissue paper, and a gift for my mom which is folded in tissue paper in a bag. both my mom and I is a pic of the kids. I call her on the drive home to tell her thanks, i can tell she is upset, we chat a bit, i ask if she is ok, she is clearly fighting emotions and says yes. She tells me that her mom is out of town for xmas say and she will be by herself, wierd.

12/25 - Kids has a great time opening gifts from santa (kids are 3 & 1.5). I text STBXW a pic of the kids opening gifts w/ merry xmas love boys. No response. My mom sends a text to say thank you for the gift, she responds merry christmas. I call STBXW later in the am to arrange a drop for her to see them. She tells me that she does not need them until later that night for dinner. I ask if she is ok, and she says she is fine i dont need to worry aobut her. Ok, so i take the kids to another family dinner, of course had a great time.

Here is where is gets juicy.

I text STBXW, about when she wants kiddos 1/2hr later she repsonds 'whenver is good for you', i say it is up to her. By this time an hour has lapsed. We agree to meet at 630 xmas night. I show up in at our meeting spot, wait 20min, no sign of her. I call she says she is coming. 15mn later she shows up, eyes blood shot, smells of alcohol. I ask if she has been drinking, she does not repsond. I persist, and tell her if you want me to drive the kids to her moms house i can. She denies. I persist, and say i dont feel comfortable her driving the kids. Keep in mind it was dark and stormy too. She finally unloads kids and loads them back into my car and tells me just follow me to her unlces house.

Ok, so i start to follow her. She calls and starts to defend herself. A discussion ensues, and she finally admits to having "1 beer before she left"!!!!! Wow, i am shocked, 1 beer = 4 or 5 drinks, ive seen enuff Cops episodes. I utlimately take the boys back to my house. She goes, whereever. She freaks out and starts calling everyone, my mom, her sister calls me, etc. Her sister and i talk for 10 min, good convo, i tell her what happened and she agress with me.

12/26 - We talk about divorce stuff, i ask her one last time (for myself) if this is REALLY what she wants? I know, I know, i slipped. So another convo ensues, she finally admits that she has been "going out on dates"!!!! The truth finally comes out, 3.5mnths into out separation and ultimate divorce. It all makes sense, now. I tell her that, it all makes sense, and of course she denies that she ever cheated, and says "i just started dating". I tell her good luck and i hope everything works out. She starts to ask why i care we are seperated, i tell her Right we are separated, and if i were in her shoes i would date too, good luck. 

I am am officially done with her A$$. I was really taking the bulk of the blame for the failed M, as she blamed me for everything. But now i can see it was her who messed everything up, i can ride off into the sunset with my kids knowing it was not me, she is jsut F's up in the head. pheeew


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## hope4family

Dude man, I wish I could click the like button 100 more times. I had a very similar confrontation with my ex-wife. The conversation that ensued was shall I say, "all I needed" to match my indifference. 

I know you are upset with her now. But please work on it to let it go towards indifference, and divorce that woman.


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## HiRoad

Thanks hope, it does not to much worse than this. I am actually relieved that she is sinking her own ship. Making me look like an angel. Many objective people have been watching this unfold and say i am doing the right thing, and she is out of control, feels good to do right for myself. 

I recently told her in a text "i hope it works out, and good luck". What a crazy women. 

I am game planning now to figure my next move, not sure if i should lawyer up now or not. I am trying to get what i want with out a lawyer.


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## hope4family

Get a lawyer. Mine has been a Godsend getting me through the legalese of this process and telling me what to do and what not to do.


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## HiRoad

Iam feeling the pain of betrayal today. I feel pain for my children, i could not give them what i never had... a happy home w/ mom and dad. STBXW has destroyed a perfect little family. She is off being a floozy with some dude.

What is gods plan for me and my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Big cyber hugs for you. I feel your pain. You will give your children a much better life and a much happier home. I've been flooded with up and down days. This is a down day for you. It'll pass. I try to tell myself this every day as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

I offer you empathy. Been here with ya the whole time. Dealing with this is the most scariest part. Understand you are not a failure in your marriage for wanting to reconcile on healthy terms. It doesn't violate the 180 either in my mind. 

This should be your short term goal. Find indifference. Remember that this life can sometimes be a journey, you've already had to take the hardest step of taking care of the children on your own. Once you realize, that your kids love you, you can love them back, and be the best you can be. 

Use the pain as motivation to be the best man that walks the earth. Pickup some Christian (non-christian) books on raising children as a single parent in a divorce. 

While you are at it, if you are really feeling brave about analyzing your relationship while its fresh in your head. Get IC, pickup some books like love languages and learn as much about yourself as possible. So when the next one comes along you have more relationship tools for identifying whats good and whats not about you.


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## GutPunch

I feel your pain Hi. I need to find that indifference myself. Planned myself a fun weekend and the Ex called yesterday and bailed on her kids (S6 & D3). I am still furious. My kids don't understand why they are not going to see Mommy after I told them they were.


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## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> I offer you empathy. Been here with ya the whole time. Dealing with this is the most scariest part. Understand you are not a failure in your marriage for wanting to reconcile on healthy terms. It doesn't violate the 180 either in my mind.
> 
> This should be your short term goal. Find indifference. Remember that this life can sometimes be a journey, you've already had to take the hardest step of taking care of the children on your own. Once you realize, that your kids love you, you can love them back, and be the best you can be.
> 
> Use the pain as motivation to be the best man that walks the earth. Pickup some Christian (non-christian) books on raising children as a single parent in a divorce.
> 
> While you are at it, if you are really feeling brave about analyzing your relationship while its fresh in your head. Get IC, pickup some books like love languages and learn as much about yourself as possible. So when the next one comes along you have more relationship tools for identifying whats good and whats not about you.


Thanks Hope, i know you have been there for me and i for you these last few months. This is the most difficult part, b/c i have lost all hope. I have to trully let her go, with her OM. The signs were there, i was under the illusion that she was better than that. 

I have been in IC since day 1, 10 sessions so far. I have read every book you can imagine. 

I am in total shock, that she has left her family, pursued another realtionship, and the worst part thinks that the little kiddos will be ok. They are 3 & 1.5, she has totally destroyed there chances of having mom & dad together again. 

I dont see how people in general learn how to forgive and get past an infidelity, i personally cannot see it. It would be extremely difficult. 

I am just in so much shock, that my STBXW has done soo much damage to my family, kids, and me. 

I know i need to practice what i preach, but, boy is it difficult.


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## HiRoad

I feel like i should give her and unltimatum, work on her M or leave to new relationship. I know that is wrong,..right? Help talk some sense into me.

My heart tells me one thing, while my head tells me another. Do i really want her back after all this? 

If i were giving advise to anyone here or a freind i would say, dont do it, she is selfish and she will screw you over again.


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## familyfirst09

You've read DR right? Re-read the chapters on the last-last resort technique and ultimatum. I'm probably way too emotional to give the best advice but look at it this way: do you want to tell your kids you've tried everything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

On the topic of ultimatums I am not sure. I recently told my wife that I felt as long as she had a key she could have come back. She just texted me last night that she wont be coming back. She still has it, but I am ready to move on so I will be asking for it at the next baby swap. 

However, in no way shape or form was me telling her that "an ultimatum". If you want to hand one out, I would say its best not to tie much emotion to it and to really think about it for yourself. 

The other side of it. Is why bother? If she says "no" it might only make her feel more free and justified and that will leave you with more of a broken heart then you are at. 

One thing I have refrained from (very very hard may have slipped up once or twice in venting and anger) is speaking in absolutes. Because love is a powerful emotion, when combined with a strong sense of commitment its all you can do not to speak in an absolute. 

I would say work on yourself first and your own emotions before getting someone toxic involved. If she erupts with hurtful, vengeful speak, you need to be prepared to move on.


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## GutPunch

Hi you need to get a lawyer and fight to get primary custody of your kids. Start the divorce...that in itself is an ultimatum. Get back on the 180. Concentrate on you and the kiddos.


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## HiRoad

I will take a look at it tonite, i have been doing the LRT and 180, i dont mind telling my kids that i tried everything, but my point is that she is now with someone else. 

Why would i want her back after that? At least i can tell my kids that i was committed, mom is the one who met someone else.


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## HiRoad

@Hope, i try to not speak in absolutes when i talk to her. I usually just listen to what she has to say and i am cool, calm, and collected.

@GP, i have contemplated getting a lawyer, but I dont want to pay out the a$$ in fees. I was planning on getting her to give in, and give me what i want. I dont know, it may be hard for me to prove she is a unfit mother. Even after the xmas day extraveganza. 

I am def. in "why" mode right know, i do not like this feeling of betrayal. I registered for a dating site, figured she is dating now, so i should start too. I know, I am not ready for anything serious, but getting to know someone new slowly may be what i need?


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## GutPunch

I understand completely. You want the woman you married back. I feel the same way. However, I know in my case that woman is gone forever and the STBXW that just got a new apartment killed her. I'd hold off on the dating until you get your confidence back. You are gonna have to let her go first. She is dating b/c emotionally she has let you go. Focus on you not her. Hard to do I know.


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## HiRoad

My IC thinks that she is masking the pain by getting with someone else. You know the saying, "the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else". We seem to think this is how my STBXW is dealing with her pain. 

I am still young (34) and have alot going for me, i know that but it is hard for me to think that far down the road yet. 

Why women like this do what they do is beyond me.


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## hope4family

Thats very possible. You would have to decide for yourself if you would want her back if she is just masking pain or in a fog. Dont decide it now, wait until later. 

The divorce process is long and weary. Even afterwards you will have to deal with her. So just keep working on you now. Focus less on her destructive behavior. 

I dont have an answer as to why women leave their home, husband, and children. On top of it adding another male to the mix. Its beyond me. But you have to find satisfaction in being reasonable, bettering yourself, and the care of your children. (edit here) Just know, you aren't the only guy this has happened too. We both wonder the same thing.


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## HiRoad

Right now i am in alot of pain and shock, I cant imagine wanting her back, i want the old marriage back before it was destroyed and trust brocken. 

I will continue to work on me and see IC, i hope that the pain subsides soon 

Well i have 2 months until it is final.


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## GutPunch

Why women like this do what they do is beyond me.


My wife is 34 and gave up custody of a S6 and D3 all for a weekend with some man she met on the internet who is no longer even in the picture. I don't think we will ever get an answer to the "Why" question. Selfishness pure selfishness is what I think.


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## HiRoad

I take it she is still a WS? Is you D final, i got to refresh myself on your thread. My head is still spinning it is hard to focus.


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## correal

I just read all your posts. Honestly, you were on the dark hoping she will come out and say she misses you and you guys get back. The 180 is about letting go,not waiting for her to change. She i going to have to do that on her own. I am not trying to be harsh, but I am going through the same situation as you are and I know how you feel! The best thing you can do is accept that you love this person, think about her if you need to, but always remember that you are worth too much, and this is not the right person for you. Why? Because you deserve someone who truly loves you!! Keep your head up and you will be in great shape!!!


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## familyfirst09

She said to you "why do you care?". To me that seems like a cry for help - her wanting you to say "because I love you". Why would she be crying if she was happily dating other men? Maybe I'm wrong, I probably am but anytime I've heard someone say that, its because they are reaching out. She's lost and confused and scared and I'm sorry if people don't agree with me saying that but it could very well be true. But until she is ready and willing herself to get help, you simply have to let her go. I have to do the same thing and I don't know how yet either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

ok, on the advice of a close friend here and as part of my own 180, i am letting her go MY way! 

I am going to call an old female friend of mine and we are hitting the town with some of her hot friends! I am not going to hide anything.

If someone or something comes from it, fine! I am a very attractive 34yr old man! In shape, and have had a line of women waiting for me to be single.

The problem is, your right correal, i was haning on to hope. If she comes back, she comes back. But in the mean time as i have told others " i am going to enjoy all the getting with all the frogs before i meet my princess!"

It is time i get back to myself before i was married, i was a gooood catch. Since my STBXW is out with her posOM then i will go get me a posOW(wife) ha!

I am not going to sit at home and wonder. THis is part of my 180! 

I will keep everyone here posted on my progress!


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## tom67

HiRoad said:


> ok, on the advice of a close friend here and as part of my own 180, i am letting her go MY way!
> 
> I am going to call an old female friend of mine and we are hitting the town with some of her hot friends! I am not going to hide anything.
> 
> If someone or something comes from it, fine! I am a very attractive 34yr old man! In shape, and have had a line of women waiting for me to be single.
> 
> The problem is, your right correal, i was haning on to hope. If she comes back, she comes back. But in the mean time as i have told others " i am going to enjoy all the getting with all the frogs before i meet my princess!"
> 
> It is time i get back to myself before i was married, i was a gooood catch. Since my STBXW is out with her posOM then i will go get me a posOW(wife) ha!
> 
> I am not going to sit at home and wonder. THis is part of my 180!
> 
> I will keep everyone here posted on my progress!


Good! That's the attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

But then wouldn't you be using people to get over your own hurt and anger towards your wife? I guess I don't know the "rules" around dating, I haven't dated in over 15 years. 

And on a funny note, do you happen to live in Canada?  

Do you what you need to do to move on but please don't hurt others in the process. I have lots of people who have asked me out and are trying to "fix me up" but I just cannot do it even tho I know it will provide an ego boost for me. Its what H did to me, I can't imagine doing it to someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

No im in cali... the weather is better here. Lol and no i am not using people if i go out and meet someone then great otherwise i am just having fun as if i am single.

I understand what you mean by hiding the hurt... but i am still in pain.. in order to get out of pain and move on i am going to enjoy women.
This is part of my 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Nothing wrong with dating Hi. I'm doing it. I have zero expectations. Good luck. My first date was an ex and I bought her flowers. Don't do that. I oozed neediness. LOL.They made of fun of me for a couple of days on TAM. Just go out and have fun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Well i hit the town for the first time in as a single guy in 6 yrs with an old friend and it was an over all a success. Met two really hot cougars, they reminded me of real housewives of OC , they had some serious $$$. The thought i was hot and a good catch. Mater fact they just texted me now. Want me to go to her house and play some pool with her new pool table.

Then met thus real cute hotie 27yr old that is a successful PT that wants to hang out.. but she lives 300miles away. But her family is up
here.

I still got it!!!

It wont be ling before i get a real good catch!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Take your time, be extremely picky!!! Have you ever thought of doing a "what I want and what I don't want list" for your next relationship? It was something my therapist recommended for me when I'm ready. 

Btw, did you post a pic in the social spot?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Right know i am just window shopping. But yes i will be extremely picky. But will have fun with all wrong ones. I ave not posted a pic in SS yet. 

I am still un some pain today.. tho
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

As long as the wrong ones know they are the wrong ones. I'm sure there are a lot of women out there who are in the same boat and just want to test the waters themselves so its win win for both of you. I'm too much of an emotional person still for that, I need to harden myself, which I'm sure I will soon become anyway. 

Self inflicted pain or emotional pain?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

i am in emotional pain from the betrayal of her committment to me and our children.

Trying to figure a way out of it, and trying not to focus on it.


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## familyfirst09

Remember its HER betrayal, not yours (I wish I could learn to take my own advice!!).
Go over to the Social Spot, that will help distract you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Baby steps hi-road. Working on yourself or jumping into the dating scene to fast can cause more problems then fix in your mind. Remember your s2bxw is being self destructive doesn't mean you have to lower yourself to her standards to enjoy yourself. 

Be true to your own sense of integrity.


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## familyfirst09

Agreed. I have a girlfriend who went through a divorce 2 years ago (and she is doing GREAT today btw). But for about a year and half she totally self destructed. Man after man, drugs, alcohol, depression drugs, even had an affair with a married man who left her to go home to his wife and she almost committed suicide. I couldn't even support her as a friend for a while because of what she was doing with the married man. But she came out of it and is better for it. DON'T be THAT person. Be true to yourself and your own values. I too lost site of my true values for a while but I know what they are now and I will never lose site of them again. Do you know what your true values are? Write them down, it will help you remember who you are as a fabulous person, husband and father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

@hope - thank you i am not saying go out there hunting like a caveman, but if something GOOD comes my way then its ok. I am not there 100% yet, i have a lot of pain i am still dealing with. It is soo hard to take the hiroad, at times i want to be vindictive. 

@FF09 - That sounds liek my STBXW right now. I am trying to be true to myself, it is hard when i see her seriously self destructing.


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## HiRoad

And the hits keep rollin.........

i just found out today that my STBXW is in las vegas! She p/u the kids on friday at 4pm, had then till 2pm today and is off to vegas with her friends and new boy toy, till prob NYD! 

Check it out, that means I have had the kids 12/21-12/23 She saw them 12/23-12/24, then i had them 12/24-12/28 then she had them 12/28-12/29 and will not see them unil 1/1??? I have them again 1/2-1/6!

She is not being a mom right now, she is too busy being in party mode.


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## familyfirst09

That's not right  do you keep a journal? Start keeping one of the time you spend with the kids, when she spends time with the kids and is in contact with them. And also what the kids reactions, thoughts and feelings are. 
Are you sure she's with the "boy toy" or is that just emotions talking?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

@FF09- I am not 100% sure but i would bet the house he is there with her. 

I text and called stbxw to tell her i know that she is in las vegas and i want to pick up kids while she is out of town. I got no response.

So she finally text me back this morning. Said "the boys are on her time and are safe with her mom" i told her she should have given me the first opportunity to watch the kids if she was going out of town. Also that i could pick them up and when she gets home, we could arrange for her to pick them up. I got no response from her.

Then her mom calls mine, saying that stbxw call her to tell MIL to drop of kids to calm me down.

So MIL unhappily dropped of kids this am 

STBXW would not instruct her mom to drop them off unleds she kmows she was kn the wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Record it in your journal. Time to start thinking in the long term. And have a nice fun day/night with your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I am alread starting to compile all my information into a binder for court. 

Also seriously contemplating lawyering up.


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## familyfirst09

Good idea. You can go to a lawyer for advice, she doesn't have to know. I've been to one and am going back in the new year. H does not know. For all I know he could have one as well so I'm not taking any chances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Hi-Hang in there kid. She's in Vegas but you have the better hand, you have the kids!


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## HiRoad

Chuck! How goes it? when i have my kids i am ok, when i dont, well that is a different story. 

STBXW texted me just a few hours ago, "how are the kids", i let her wait it out like 3hrs before i responded. My response, "I got the kids, there doing good, a little sick, but I will take care of them, enjoy your time in vegas " she just said thank you.


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## lee101981

hope4family said:


> Thats very possible. You would have to decide for yourself if you would want her back if she is just masking pain or in a fog. Dont decide it now, wait until later.
> 
> The divorce process is long and weary. Even afterwards you will have to deal with her. So just keep working on you now. Focus less on her destructive behavior.
> 
> I dont have an answer as to why women leave their home, husband, and children. On top of it adding another male to the mix. Its beyond me. But you have to find satisfaction in being reasonable, bettering yourself, and the care of your children. (edit here) Just know, you aren't the only guy this has happened too. We both wonder the same thing.


A real mother would not leave her children!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Right lee! In the last 3weeks i have had my kids 80% of the time. A 3 and 1.5yr old!!!! What kinda of women/mother is she? Wants to live the single life i guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

So does this mean you have your kids for new years eve now too?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981

I do! But I am a real mother!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

As do I 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

I got mine. I am not a real mother. *shrugs*


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## familyfirst09

Then you are a real father??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Yes. I am just trying to be silly. (My humor is wasted on text.)


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## familyfirst09

Lol, well good for you for being a real father. I hope you have a wonderful new years with your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981

familyfirst09 said:


> Lol, well good for you for being a real father. I hope you have a wonderful new years with your children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mine will only make it to 9 and I will only make it to 10
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Its just another day this year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Today yes just another work day for me. Tonight...well. DS and I are going to spend it with the grandparents. At midnight, I will shoot some fireworks off and he will be safely in his crib. I'll also be with my brother and his family. So I wont be alone at least. 

God bless you both ladies.


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## HiRoad

Yes all... i have my kids for NYE.. but i plan on putting to bed.. and having mom watch them while i go out and enjoy festivities
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

But since i quit drinking.. it will be a short night
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Ok just went to the mall bought some black slacks, black vest, black shirt and a bright red tie for tonight!!

While i was there with the kids i ran into my STBXW's best friends (her enabler, she is also a [email protected]) parents:

Real qucik background on her best friend - she has been the 1 influencing my WAW that the grass is greener, i am sure of it. Also she was suppose to be M on 9/28, but last minute bailed out. Then 1 month later she shows up with a new man. Now my STBXW has been attached to her hip, and has most likely posOM that is prob friend with besties man. 

So saw the parents as they were walking towards me, the were trying to ignore me, so i said hi. Of course a convo ensued but it was all fake, they did not even mention that the girls and posOM are in vegas! 

I just acted happy, smiled, and said everything was great!


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## GutPunch

Good job! Maintain the 180!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Have a great time tonight 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

i plan on it thanks FF09!


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## HiRoad

well last night went well, met a few girls, there were a little young for me (23-25) but overall had a great time with family and friends.

The bad part was i checked FB and there were some new pics posted of my stbxw and her new posOM. Dragged the night down a little bit, now that i have a face to the posOM, i am confident that i am better looking and a better man than he. He looks like a dude looking to just have fun.

Still have not heard from the stbxw too much, i still have the kiddos, i am sure she is flying back in tonight from vegas, and will want to have her kids back. 

My plan during the exchange is too act happy and cheerful, keep talk very very short, dress nice and show her that i have moved on.

The cool thing is i will only go a day or two before i see my kids again  

Thoughts?

I will keep you all posted as the day progresses.


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## hope4family

I am proud of you. Just dont be a poser just to get even with her. I know some might disagree. But I feel there is a fine line between posing happiness as a fascade and being downright cheerful.

To help you with this. Learn to live by this code. My "x " doesnt love me. I am free to be who I want and be happy. I will be the better person because I am. I need to be loved. I will not love to be needed.

Aint nothing wrong with 25 if they are intereted imo. Long as she really is the one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

thanks Hope, i am not doing it to get even with her, rahter she needs to know that i am moving on.

I need to at least show her that there may be at least a posOW for me.

This may snap her out of her fog or may not, either way the point is to show her that i am moving on.

I am almost 100% certain that she is going to want to come back now.

I just dont know how i would handle it. It depends how she proposes it.

Like i said thought either way it does and will not matter to me


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## the guy

Best thing you can do is show STBXW that her crap can not and will not bring you down. So the positive the better.
Tell her you had a great time with a new friend and when she ask if it was a female smile and tell her its time to move on, walk away laughing....


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## familyfirst09

Its all about you now. You've been doing a great job with the 150s and bettering youself, I'm sure she knows what she's missing. And I love that statement Hope4Family!
And don't try to compare youself to POSOM, you know you are a better man, and you don't need anyone to tell you that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

LOL I said 150s! I meant 180s 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Why are you now positive she's coming back?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

HiRoad said:


> And the hits keep rollin.........
> 
> i just found out today that my STBXW is in las vegas! She p/u the kids on friday at 4pm, had then till 2pm today and is off to vegas with her friends and new boy toy, till prob NYD!
> 
> Check it out, that means I have had the kids 12/21-12/23 She saw them 12/23-12/24, then i had them 12/24-12/28 then she had them 12/28-12/29 and will not see them unil 1/1??? I have them again 1/2-1/6!
> 
> She is not being a mom right now, she is too busy being in party mode.


Document this and make sure your lawyer gets the journal. It might help with how much time you have the kids which adds up to how much money you have to give STBXW.


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## the guy

HiRoad said:


> I am alread starting to compile all my information into a binder for court.
> 
> Also seriously contemplating lawyering up.


Missed this ...sorry for mentioning something you already know about.


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## HiRoad

@ the guy - you are right i plan on being perfectly ok with what she is doing, mastering the indifference role, acting happy and cheerful, but short with her. But as far as making her think that i have a OW, that is tricky and i must play my cards correctly. But i am working on it.

@FF09 - reason i say this is that i am certain she is just putting a band aid on the wound. Also i have seen this guy, has a lot of tattoos (not trying to be judgemental) but he looks like a partier. Not a stepfather to my children. I doubt he wants to help her raise little kids and take care of her financially. Call it a guy feeling.


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## familyfirst09

No, I agree from what I've heard most POSOM/W want nothing to do with the children because it interferes with their time with the spouse. She is definitely just masking the wound. How long has this been going on for you? How long has she been in turmoil?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I had a hunch that the reason she left (9/18) was for posOM, but i did not beleive it.

Then last week she told me that she was "dating" and there was someone.

And all the pics confirm it back to round thanksgiving. 

We have been seperated 3.5 months. 

I have been dealing with this posOM for 2 weeks.


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## the guy

Expose POSOM.

How much money is left in her business account?


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## the guy

Vegas had to of taken a big chunk?


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## familyfirst09

Was there a lead up to the separation? Or was it very quick? If its only been 3.5 months, everything is still "roses" for her as I've been told. An affair usually only lasts about 6 months. Stay strong, you'll get through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

@theguy - i am going to pull her bank satement (which she does not know i have access too) on wednesday, I am sure vegas took a big chunk. I am curious to see how much $$$ she has left. Unless posOM paid? I think posOM has been exposed, she has brought him to FILs xmas prty on 12/15, which leads me to believe either she lied to him or told him.

@FF09 - there was no lead up, however we were def. under alot of stres financially. Also we were def. in a rut/valley of our M (6yrs). But i was def out of the blue. I know this is still new and exciting for her. Its a little secret, she thinks no one knows, etc. It will were off, that is why i am confident she will want to come back in some shape or form.


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## HiRoad

I was thinking ... i bought my wife a gift and a card from the kids for xmas and she never said thank you or anything?! WoW


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## familyfirst09

That really shouldn't surprise you and you should not have bought her anything, goes against the 180s. But don't worry, I bought H something too from D. It was a belt, it was too small lol. I think he thinks I'm taking back but it fits me so I'm keeping it .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

Its from the kids.

Not you.


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## HiRoad

OMG, there are soo many pics of my stbxw on FB and instagram (not hers) some other dudes, of her partying with her posOM! What a dumba$$. 

Still dont get it, i have had these kids while she is out partying. What is she thinking????

I am just collecting all my data for court. Not looking good for her. 

Dont know how the he!! this story ends?

This is fvking crazy. 

dont worry all, i am still on 180 and NC.

Just cant believe this is the woman i married, had children with, and was going to spend my life with.

Seriously, what am i supposed to do. I know, truly let go, ten commandments, etc? 

Then i have a "What if" What if she come out of her "fog" and realizes what she has lost. Then what? Am i suppose to do the godly thing and try to R with her?

IDK???


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## familyfirst09

UpnOver: you're right, it was intended to be a present from D. I'm just thinking negatively. I will return it and get a new one. Thank you. 

HiRoad: you need to stop "snooping", you're driving yourself crazy and its one of the 180s!!! The courts, I don't think, will care what she is doing, unless its illegal. All you need to be compiling is that she's not with her kids and when. 

The woman she is now is not the woman you married. She's in a fog, a MLC, something. And maybe she will come out of but maybe she won't. Regardless, you will be a better man with or without her. Concentrate on right NOW, not the what ifs. And yes I know I suck at listening to this advice as well, but it sounds like you are in a state of panic at the moment. It'll pass. Take the advice you gave me and do some meditation, re-read through your thread so he you can how strong you really are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF09 - you right the courts prob will not care, i need to stop. I feel like i am living in a dream. This is soo crazy, that my stbxw is goin crazy, MLCing, whatever! You were there, FF09, was it like this. Did you think about what you were doing? Your future? What made you stop again?


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## HiRoad

i am starting to get it, posOM is what i am not, kinda of a bad boy look! stbxw has tatoos, i never got any. 

I also think this is a case of the gass is greener too.


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## familyfirst09

I really didn't think about the future at all, I thought it would all work itself out. I knew I loved him and my daughter, just felt like something was missing, I wasn't myself at all, I was completely devoid of emotions except for my daughter. H and I talked about it, he knew something was wrong as well, said he understood. Re-read the chapter on MLC in DR, see if that helps. I knew something was wrong, went to 3 different IC to find out. It was the 3rd one and the one I am still with now that finally opened my eyes. But I was too late because unknown to me, EA had already started with POSOW. We were, I thought anyway, reconciling, when I found out. We were still together, still said I love you, sex, etc etc. I still don't know how long EA was going on but based on what I know now, I think it was going on a lot longer than I first thought.

I didn't think the grass was greener at all, I was scared sh**less because I really didn't know whatd was happening to me. I didn't want me family to break up at all. 
Don't compare yourself to him, you have no idea what he or his life is like, it'll drive you crazy if you try to. He's a POS dating a married woman with children, you are better than him in every aspect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lee101981

I would love for H fog to lift but I dont see thtat happening... It is so hard when my mind and heart are not on the same pageI really dont know how I would react if I saw H facebook page fill with pics of another women...


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## GutPunch

Hang in there, Hi and for God's sake you have got to quit snooping. I mean absolutely zero snooping does no good except torment you.


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## HiRoad

FF09- You did not have posOM right?

I feel like this is a dream. So she finally just texted me now, 32 hrs later from last text, "how are the kids" i said good ... napping. 

Is my WAW stbxw sick? what happend to her? It is going to take a miracle from god to R this marriage. 

I mean what mother leaves 2 children to go party in las vegas, she is looking soo bad. 

I am contemplating calling her parents to expose her.

IDK, when this "fog" lifts then what? 

pppffffftttttt so confused!!!!!!!!!


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## HiRoad

GP - i know i know, i am going to really work hard on it since it will not matter in court.

She prob thinks she getting away with it too, that is the sad part.


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## tom67

Tell her parents why not.


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## lee101981

if you feel like snooping you can snoop on my facebook page, not much there


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## HiRoad

help!! She just texted me again i guess she is not coming home today from vegas, or maybe she is and is staing with posOM. IDK

She said ,"can i pick the kids up from daycare wed?" I was scheduled to have them wed, but since she left to vegas i got them??

What do i say?

Do i take the Hiroad and tell her to take them until friday. Then she leaves this next weeked to LA for 4 more days that i will have them!!!

This is a mother to 2 toddlers 3 & 1.5!!! Who does that to kids!


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## HiRoad

My says were suppose to be W - Su this week


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## tom67

HiRoad said:


> help!! She just texted me again i guess she is not coming home today from vegas, or maybe she is and is staing with posOM. IDK
> 
> She said ,"can i pick the kids up from daycare wed?" I was scheduled to have them wed, but since she left to vegas i got them??
> 
> What do i say?
> 
> Do i take the Hiroad and tell her to take them until friday. Then she leaves this next weeked to LA for 4 more days that i will have them!!!
> 
> This is a mother to 2 toddlers 3 & 1.5!!! Who does that to kids!


Tell her parents document this for court.


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## HiRoad

i am doing that Tom. But what do i do?? 

Ask her when she coming home?

Ask her how many days she is going to have them?

Or just tell her?

i dont want to punish her for not seeing them, thier her children, even if she has a posOM.


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## familyfirst09

I did not have POSOM and I am sooooo thankful for that. I also never left my child. 

Yes, I think she is sick, its a mental illness. 

180 - do not seek help or assistance from family members. If you expose her to her parents, will it help?
If the fog lifts, then you deal with it. But you need to work on yourself. Don't let all the hard work you've been doing be for nothing at this point. I have this on my bathroom mirror "I will be a better person with or without him. He is a want, not a need". My new mantra.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

First off, don't respond right away, let her stew. If you are supposed to have them Wednesday, then would you normally pick them up from daycare? 
Ill tell you what my therapist said to me - you can't make him be a father. Pick up your kids, keep them until she says she's coming to get them, don't ask her anything. If wed-sun is your days, then she doesn't get them again til monday. She can't be a mom when its conveneient for her (another thing I say to myself about H). Take care of your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

yes i would normally pick them up from daycare wed, and have them till Mon since she will be in LA


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## familyfirst09

Ok. So you know what you have to do then. Why would she even ask if you already pick then up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

I would contact her, you should be very concern what kind of POS is around your kids. So yes contact her and see whats going on.

The last thing you want is some POS locking your kids up so he can get a piece.

Don't go off and make aqusations just small talk be positive and feel her out to see if OM is there.

Do a back round check on OM and he might help your case when it come to a court order or moral clause that will prevent Om from sepending the night when she has the kids.

It will be hard but play it cool on the phone and be positive that she is no longer your problem but you do need to hang up and work a plan that will make it difficult for OM being around your kids.

The goal here is acting like nothing is wrong to get the intel if OM is in fact around your kids, then when she isn't ooking strick her with order of protection for your kids against OM.

again another attempt to making the affair inconvienent and uncomfortable.


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## HiRoad

Ok, but the right thing to do is to have the mom see the boys, there her kids.


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## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> First off, don't respond right away, let her stew. If you are supposed to have them Wednesday, then would you normally pick them up from daycare?
> Ill tell you what my therapist said to me - you can't make him be a father. Pick up your kids, keep them until she says she's coming to get them, don't ask her anything. If wed-sun is your days, then she doesn't get them again til monday. She can't be a mom when its conveneient for her (another thing I say to myself about H). Take care of your kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: 

I just went thru this same thing New Years weekend. You cannot make her be a good mother. I just took the kids and told her she could have them again at her next prearranged time. I am not giving up one second of my time.


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## HiRoad

Still have not responded...... dont know what i am going to do. 

Thank you thank you for all your feed back! This helps alot, i have to make a decision, for the mean time i am letting her stew a bit.


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## lee101981

GutPunch said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I just went thru this same thing New Years weekend. You cannot make her be a good mother. I just took the kids and told her she could have them again at her next prearranged time. I am not giving up one second of my time.


Great response !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

texting her back and forth right now, it has been going on for and hour, it is juicy! 

i will have to fill you all in .... .stay tuned.


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## HiRoad

Ok so basically i gave it to her, i told her that she decided to go to vegas w/o telling me about it and now she wants to be a mom when it is convient for her (thnx FF09). 

She perseded to beg me to change the schedule up, but would not volunteer what her schedule is like this week so i can make rearrangements. 

Also she wants SIL to p/u kids and keep them until she gets home, i said NO, they are our kids and we are resonsible to raise them not SIL, if stbxw cannot take care of them I will.

stbxw apologized for vegas slip up, still wants to change up sched b/c of vegas trip

I told her this is the life you chose, not me, now we have to deal w/ your decisions. 

Asked stbxw to reconfirm her schedule w/ me for the 3rd time, and i asked her when she is available this week to see kids. 

no response.... that was a hour ago! 

I bet she feels 2 inches tall right now, choosing her party life and posOM over kids


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## familyfirst09

Good for you. Try to take some of the emotions out of the convo, and be careful, she could use anything you say against you. 
Don't change your schedule for her. 

In regard to POSOM being around your children, most therapists recommend a year and I was able to get H to agree with that. Also these people do not want children around and she probably doesn't either right now because they interfere. Keep letting her stew and take care of your kids. They are soooo young 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

I aggree with FF09, focus on the kids , they keep you grounded. Re enforce your love for them and give them lots and lots of attension.

I'm not one to use kids against a wayward spouse, but your STBXW pisses me off and I would make it as difficult as possible for her to see the kids...maybe it my wishfull think she will turn a corner, but it clear that she deep deep in to the fog and the furthest thing from her mind is being a mother.

With that said I believe her being with her kids is not the best for the kids especially in her current mind set, and especialy when that mind set is more about have the perception of beeing a good mom and not actually being a good mom.

As history has shown she wants the kids but pushes them off and the kids want mommy time and only get shoveled off to a MIL or SIL or God knows who is next in line ...maybe the niegbor of the POSOM sister's brother's cousin who "like" kids...just so she can look like she want the kids onlt to realy want her party on.

In short the kids want there mommy time and continued to get disappointed...so really " they are her kids" doesn't hold water here with me.. what holds water is the stability young ones need and that stabilty is with you...not some stranger that will be next in lline while she gets them and them shovels them off to party.

She it looks good to have this perception of being a wanted mother who wants time with her babies, but this is not the case.

Sorry for the rant brother, but this mother is all about smoke and mirrors so stop fooling your self with the idea of " after all she is there mother.....they don't have a mother!

You have been keeping track my man so look at that journal and you will see the course that is playing out.

Its just a matter of time when your kids tell you about the strange lady that watched them but don't know her or were there mommy droped them off for the night...I just don't like the pattern that is forming with this so called mother.

I wouldn't let this women with her current mind set watch my dogs. I can see this women getting called away to some great party only to come home with the bag of dog food poured out on the floor...only to hear from her days latter informing me that something came up!

In short, my point is being a parent is the last thing on her mind, the first thing on her mind is POSOM the second thing on her mind is *LOOKING* like a good parent!!!!!!!

" I want the kids, but something came up so I left them with the nieghbors brothers sisters cousins friend over at Crack Ville Estates

Its your STBXW current mind set and consistant pattern of neglect that concerns me... sure this may be over the top, but it wasn't that long ago that you would have never thought she would bail on the family...

Prepare for the worst! better to stay on the side of caution, then regreting the fact that you *though* she wouldn't let the kids come in harmsway.


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## the guy

Sorry for the rant!


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## familyfirst09

Omg, you just gave me a lightbulb moment!!
"In short, my point is being a parent is the last thing on her mind, the first thing on her mind is POSOM the second thing on her mind is *LOOKING* like a good parent!!!!!!!". That's it, that's what my H is doing!!! I could never find the words!!!

Sorry, not my thread but thank you 

HiRoad, I totally agree with the guy in this case as well, altho I wouldn't let her watch my dogs either. You are NOT keeping her from her kids, she's doing that herself. You are not responsible to make her a parent. There was a night a few days ago where I was so distraught I said to myself, if H calls tonight, I'm not answering, it didn't matter, I wasn't going to answer. Thankfully, he didn't call because (well it was ****ty for him not to call but YKWIM) I would have intentionally kep him from talking to his daughter, that would have been very wrong of me so I'm glad it didn't happen. Do you get my point tho - you are not keeping her away, she's doing a fine job all on her own. 

If her priority were her children she would be there, right now. She's not. 

Someone said to me "love the sinner, not the sin". What she is doing is a sin. You standing up for your children does not show her you "hate" her, it shows that you are a good father and are not going to put up with this bull. 

How old is your wife btw?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

This kinda hit close to home, back in the day my old lady was leaving my kids with POS couple that lived close to OM's then bailing on them, all the while telling me she's taking the kids on play dates.

Just becareful brother


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## familyfirst09

I found that out as well. I would be with my friend, H said it was okay to go, I later learned D went to a babysitter at least 3 or 4 times that I didn't know about. I don't know where H was but he wasn't with D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

@FF09, OP WW isn't even making an attempt to call and talk to her kids...she phucking goes for days with NC. Then when she is hung over and does the walk of shame she sees the reality of the fact that she has babies while she gathers her clothes up off the floor.


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## the guy

familyfirst09 said:


> I found that out as well. I would be with my friend, H said it was okay to go, I later learned D went to a babysitter at least 3 or 4 times that I didn't know about. I don't know where H was but he wasn't with D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think about what this does to the kid/s...it daddy time or mommy time and these babies have this wonderful expectation to be with there mom or dad and then bamb get shoveled off to a sitter.

Look a Skater's thread his ex continued to disappoint his D..when ever it was mommy time she got screwed by her own mom, ending up at a MIL or SIL and never getting the mommy time she wanted.


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## tom67

Tell her parents what she is doing or not doing with the kids.


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## familyfirst09

I know its very sad  
Where is HiRoad?? Hope you're okay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

What a draining last 24hrs!! I was soo emotionally drained last night, i hit the sack early. 

Did not get much sleep, b/c my mind was running on OD, I saw that the stbxw is still in vegas party it up with posOM. 

I am still a little bit in a fog, cant believe this is my life. I am game planning to figure out what to do next. I called a lawyer today. I am going to try to get custody of the kids more than 50%. I just cant trust her..

@ the guy - you are absolutely right. You could not have said it better.
I am at a loss of words for stbxw, she has been disrespectful to me, our kids, and our marriage. I dont know exactly what to do, but i try to take a step back and look from the outside in, if this were a good friend , i would be telling him to get the fvck out of there. She is crazy.

@ff09- she is 30, dont know if she thinks she is getting away with it, posOM. I was thinking of letting her in on what i know, and what my family and friends know. But what is the point, she has chosen her new life. 

Sorry for the rambling i am still in disbelief.


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## GutPunch

Be careful to document everything. The reason I am getting primary custody is

1 I don't think my STBXW wants the responsibility.
2 She knows I have her on the drug use

You need to prove she is unfit and partying won't do it. However, if you can show the judge that she is flaking on designated times your in. Like I said you keep the kids as much as you can and document it.


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## HiRoad

GP - thanks that is good to know, i will try not to snoop anymore on FB, all i see are pics of her partying. I have been documenting everything on a calander. Also i have my texts and emails saved too.


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## HiRoad

Ok, so today I called in sick to work b/c i was going to go to the court and file the mediation. The plan was to drop the kids off at daycare, then my stbxw was going to pick them up. 

Go to daycare to find out it was closed. So i texted stbxw daycare closed. she wanted me to drop kids off at SILs house. I was like, thats alright, i have the day off we r on our way to tahoe. I Ask her to tell me when she is available for the boys.

She told me she would be home by 4pm. And where to pick them up at.

i told her (text) that i did not plan on daycare being closed , so had to take the kids with us . Sorry, ... ill try to be home early.

She told me to keep them warm, and then wanted to talk to them. 

I told her that they are and she asked again to talk to them. I told her in a hour, but never texted her in a hour. Mua ha ha ha haa.

I just texted stbxw few minutes ago that, i can meet her at strbcks at 7 pm tonight. 

I plan on dressing nice and dapper as if i am going to dinner. She needs to know that I may have a posOW.


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## HiRoad

if i dont hear from her by 7pm, then i will keep them another night!


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## familyfirst09

"I told her that they are and she asked again to talk to them. I told her in a hour, but never texted her in a hour. Mua ha ha ha haa."

Be careful....you just intentionally kept her from talking to her kids. Altho, she could have called directly or called back. 

What time is it where you are? How come you did not know that daycare was closed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I understand ff09, but i thought about it and thought the same thing as you, if she really wanted to talk to her kids she would have asked again in a hour or called.

So speaking of her seeing her kids, just got a text from her saying that she cannot make by 7pm (its 545here) it will be more like 730, she told me she would text me when she get closer.

What!!? That means that one, you probably new that you would not be able to pick up the kids from daycare today and two, you were going to have SIL do it. So you lied to me again. 

I am going to tell her that we stopped and got dinner and the kids fell a sleep, so i will take them to daycare tomorrow, she can pick them up tomorrow and have them till friday, and i will get them friday.

I cant believe this woman puts noooo, zero effort into seeing her children. O well, good for me 

That means she left to vegas from 12-29 - 1-3 late?? In the last 15 days she has seen her kids a total of 2 full days split!!?

@FF09 - daycare annually takes this week off till thursday, i have it in a email.


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## familyfirst09

Ok good, and yes you're absolutely right. She could have called back. Its not on you to make her a mom!!!
That's sad  only 2 days? During pretty much the most important, or at least family orientated weeks of the year. 
Be a good dad, keep your kids safe. And yes, you should also stipulate as part of your agreement/arrangement, that YOU get the kids first before anyone else if she cannot maintain her schedule. You should let MIL and SIL know that as well. They cannot (or least should not go against your wishes as their father)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Lies, lies, lies, lies, i keep catching her in lies. Is she sick? My heart is hurting for my kids, they ask where mom is at, i have to tell them she is at work or something.

How can a mother of two under 4 hapilly go party and not be with her children at all?? 

I got to learn how to let go better.


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## GutPunch

Where's your focus Hi? Detach! I know it hurts to see your children disappointed but you can't shame or nice her into being a good mother.

It's OK to rant on this board but you need to avoid the text wars and angry phone calls with her.


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## HiRoad

i need to regain focus. i have some hynotherapy audio that i need to listen too before i go to bed. 

I need my self confidence back.


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## GutPunch

That emotional up and down up and down is gonna wear on you. You just worry about what you can control and try to avoid that victim trangle.


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## HiRoad

Just dropped the kids of with the stbxw, i have a gut feeling that she prob took them over to the posOMs house, but that could also be my feelings kickin in.

i HATE this emotional roller coaster! I have totally lost my focus.


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## familyfirst09

She probably is sick, she has to be. How much time did she spend with the children before this all started? She is a want, not a need. You will be a better man without her. You can't control her actions, only how you react to them. This is advice given to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Ugh! I hope she doesn't go that route. Despicable behavior. I would lawyer up my man. Have you filed for D yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Dude, she already failed you. You got to rise above this now. In regards to the kids. Stop with the pestering of her Mother and detach. You don't have to necessarily be "nice." 

It's time to file, if you don't stand for something. You will fall for anything.


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## HiRoad

Thanks all for the encouragement.

I am def. in a velley of the rollercoaster ride. I am anaylitical by nature, and as a man we want to diagnose the problem and fix it. 

Since my stbxw and I do not talk on the phone often, when we do I get the feeling that the door is not quite shut yet. I feel that maybe on the outside she is trying to be tuff, but inside she is screaming for help. IDK.

I can help but try to figure out this puzzle and solve it, this is my struggle. 

I wish this process was black and white, or was instructions to follow.

What i show her and what i tell you all are two different things. I show her happiness, indifference, and firmness. I show her that I am moving on, I am hanging out with OW, I am busy.

But inside I am just as weak as the many of you on her I have counceled. 

How do i detach fast?

I see my IC today and my lawyer tomorrow.


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## hope4family

You don't detach fast. But finding indeference (4 months after she left) has enabled me to be able to say one way or another what I want out of life. 

Filing for divorce will also help you. Don't you get it? She is taking you for a ride. As long as you are married your ass is still legally hers.


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## familyfirst09

You have to act happy, firm, strong for yourself, not her. I think you and I are in the same boat, as I am a fixer too and I keep thinking I should/can fix H, so I don't want to enable you. I agree with Hope, file for D, that will either shock her into reality or let you know 100 percent its time to move on for good. We can fix them, we can only fix ourselves. 

Hope: where is your thread, I'd like to read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

THe D has been filed, we have to file for mediation. She is the one who filed the D, i responded within the 30 day period.


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## HiRoad

> You don't detach fast. But finding *indeference *(4 months after she left) has enabled me to be able to say one way or another what I want out of life.


How did you do this soo quickly, i am almost 4 months seperated. With everyting that is going on, it is becoming increasingly difficult for me.


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## familyfirst09

Can you be the one to file for mediation? If the D has been filed, is she now stalling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Yes I can go and file mediation. I planned on it yeserday, until i found out daycare was not open.


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## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> How did you do this soo quickly, i am almost 4 months seperated. With everyting that is going on, it is becoming increasingly difficult for me.


A lot of factors which is why its harder or easier for you. I had a period where it was very easy, and then when she started to ask if she could come home. It hurt more then all the harsh, evil, devastating words. 

But i'll let you know why in a bullet point form. 
# We were only married two years. 
# Dating 2 months after knowing each other for 6. 
# This wasn't the first time in my marriage she said "she didn't love me" for an extended period. 
# I am a Christian. I have conviction to show my DS what strength in the line of fire is. Living to be the best I can be is the best witness I can provide to his salvation. 
# I was a still born. I've always felt I was here for a reason. (We all are.) This to me is just another moment in a long line of "incredibly hard" things I must overcome. 
# According to my s2bxw re-writing history. She never loved me. Ever. 

All these factors I think help. Doesn't mean I am not hurt or even devastated at times. I'm seeking help for my own insecurities and problems. I still have a long way to go. Filing helps.


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## familyfirst09

What exactly is mediation? I think its different here in canada. Can you try to ignore your heart and listen to what your gut is telling you? I know its hard, I can't seem to do it but some people can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Mediation is a court service that helps you come to agreement on spit of everything.


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## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> A lot of factors which is why its harder or easier for you. I had a period where it was very easy, and then when she started to ask if she could come home. It hurt more then all the harsh, evil, devastating words.
> 
> But i'll let you know why in a bullet point form.
> # We were only married two years.
> # Dating 2 months after knowing each other for 6.
> # This wasn't the first time in my marriage she said "she didn't love me" for an extended period.
> # I am a Christian. I have conviction to show my DS what strength in the line of fire is. Living to be the best I can be is the best witness I can provide to his salvation.
> # I was a still born. I've always felt I was here for a reason. (We all are.) This to me is just another moment in a long line of "incredibly hard" things I must overcome.
> # According to my s2bxw re-writing history. She never loved me. Ever.
> 
> All these factors I think help. Doesn't mean I am not hurt or even devastated at times. I'm seeking help for my own insecurities and problems. I still have a long way to go. Filing helps.


Wait she started to ask to come home? How long into your seperation did she ask? I may have to re-read your thread.

My bullet point form is similar to yours:

- Married 6yrs
- dated 8mnts before getting M
- Not 1st time she left, (left once after coming home frm Iraq)
- i am catholic, i believe that god has a plan for me
- my stbxw constantly says, she tried for 1.5yrs and was by myside for my struggles, like that is a good reason to leave

I have urges to talk to her and try to talk some sence into her, Since we hardly talk, i think by talking to her it may help some. But that could be my heart speaking for me. I have to constantly tell myself, that if she wanted it to work she would pick up the phone.


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## hope4family

1 month from mid sept-mid oct. She asked, I said no. She said she loved me, I didn't believe her and do not love her back. 

Was I lying? No I wasn't. Understand she did say she was sorry. But it was more of a "sorry its all your fault and i'm through punishing you now" type of sorry. At least thats what I felt like. When I asked what she was sorry for, I mostly got silence or "for being mad at you, what I said". 

Nothing about breaking my heart, leaving me and ds, making me worry for her non-stop, nope. Oh by the way, she also still felt like I "manipulated her into marriage and she never loved me." So, she really was asking to be a cake eater. Not reconciliation.


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## HiRoad

@hope - wow good for you for sniffing out the BS and calling her out on it. I hope i can do the same if the time comes. 

I want to write her a letter letting her know that I she has a pattern running to someone else when hurt. That she needs to get help. Also that my only concern is the kids. 

I want to tell her to be truthful to herself and that i forgive her, and i have let her go.

I am being plan b is i do this?


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## familyfirst09

What do you mean by Plan B?
What is the purpose of the letter?
180 rule - no letters. I've written 2, never got a response from either and it left me more hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

> I want to write her a letter letting her know that I she has a pattern running to someone else when hurt. That she needs to get help. Also that my only concern is the kids.


Looks to me you still focused on her. That shows me you are still wanting to help (fix) her. She is gone! No problem to fix!




> I want to tell her to be truthful to herself and that i forgive her, and i have let her go.


No you haven't!



> I am being plan b is i do this?


As long as you continue to pine for her then yes. Plan c more like it. Don't you send no stinkin letter. 



I like you am a natural fixer/nuturerer. We satisfy our emotional needs by taking care of others. We are going to have to realize that she is on her own now. Not our problem to fix ANYMORE!


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## HiRoad

Thanks, i get it. I have to do nothing, and let her go. 

Whatever, that is why i ask her first before i do anything.

Hard to let go, when i have to 2 little guys at home that need their mom.

Thanks TAMers for being there for me, it is going to be a while before I heal from this betrayal.


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## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Thanks, i get it. I have to do nothing, and let her go.
> 
> Whatever, that is why i ask her first before i do anything.
> 
> Hard to let go, when i have to 2 little guys at home that need their mom.
> 
> Thanks TAMers for being there for me, it is going to be a while before I heal from this betrayal.


Make no doubt. That's what it is. Remember, the kids got the better of the two of you. Now focus all your energy on fighting for them. 

I want you to know. That even though indifference has arrived for me. There are still moments, where I want to talk sense into her. But I realize, that's exactly what I SHOULDN'T be doing. You are not abnormal for feeling this way. 

To be fair with you, I have already done things that wreak of so much desperation before she moved out. It would make you sick. Her casting me to the side burns in my memory. 

It didn't take long for me to have a spine. She didn't have me or ds best interest at heart. If I go off of what she says, perhaps she never has.


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## GutPunch

> Thanks TAMers for being there for me, it is going to be a while before I heal from this betrayal


.


But you will be a stronger more self aware individual when you do get there. We will be very astute in the selection process. I know it has got to be difficult with kids as young as yours. I've had a diaper free house for two weeks now


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## familyfirst09

You will be a better man with or without her, at this point it is without her. She is a want, not a need. Your kids need you, focus on that. Its okay to feel the way you are feeling, I feel the same way - when will this pain go away?? Neither of us know. 
And btw, feel free to write her a letter, say whatever you feel like. Just DON'T give it to her. I've written tons of letters that I haven't given, it helps to get things out (one was so full of curse words that my own mother would be ashamed of me lol) but it helped get things out. 
What kind of recommendations are you getting from your therapist?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

@hope - i am on the same page as you, she has no idea what i am going through. It is extremely difficult especially with two little ones. The thing is i have not done much, i have only talked to her a few times, from the outside looking in i have been in NC and 180ing my a$$ off. But stbxw and i have LC. but your right she does not have me or the kids as a first priority.

@GP - yes i now i will be stronger and more aware indivual for the next time around. By greatest fear is that she will want to come back. And if she is really sincere i am afraid i will give in.

@FF09 - Thank you! I have read H.Mcdonalds book many times and i know she is a want and that i am being masochisitic. Thank goodness i see my IC today! She is telling me to go through the emotions head on, face them, accept them, and i will be in a better place. My stbxw will not, she is masking, running, and not facing them at all. 

I feel like I and my kids got dealt a shi!!y hand, know i have to pick up the pieces and start all over again. I feel that it is going to take a special accepting W to come into my life and accept me and my kids as we are.


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## Chuck71

After what I have read about her behaviour, it may be logical to....shoot for full custody. Simply wait until mediation but show documentation of where the children stayed. It may be best in mind for the children. Her environment is unstable.


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## HiRoad

Chuck - in CA this would be very difficult to prove, i would have to prove that she is an unfit mother, either on drugs, or putting the kids in harms way. Best i can do i present the facts, when i am with them and when she is not.


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## hope4family

I'm with you hiroad. Full custody is impossible to get in my state as well. Unless she is on drugs (Addicted, or a proven *****.) 

Were moving on.


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## Chuck71

HiRoad-Nothing worthwhile in life ever comes easy. Document the times she wants others to pick them up or keep them. Just by attempting full custody will soil her underwear. I would do it just for a reaction but as well, for the concern for the kids. Her surroundings are in no way healthy for your kids.


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## HiRoad

CHuck - I will talk to my attourney first and see what the best plan of action is. I hope my stbxw knows that my audit skills will def be i high gear and i will be documenting everything. Know i now why she wanted to end this fast, so she could go party without regard. Now that she slacked on filing, she has dug herself a whole. I was contempleting on telling her what i know, what i have documented, and what i plan on fighting for in hopes that she would snap out of her fog. Also in hope to get get to give me what i want. I will ask the lawyer first to see if that is a good idea.


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## familyfirst09

Do NOT tell her anything! You would just be giving her advancw notice to destroy evidence and build her own case. Think stratrgic is what my lawyer told me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

She is a snake.....cut off the head. Warning the snake would not be wise. Does not hurt to try for FC. I ask to win the lottery...hasn't happened but....nothing wrong with asking.


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## HiRoad

ok, i wont. My mom just sent her and email saying that she is no longe going to my wifes business for services. Ouch.


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## HiRoad

Heading to IC, i will be back in 2 hrs


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## lee101981

Let it all out!!!!


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## HiRoad

Alright IC went good.

its def official that stbxw is/has been suffering from BPD2 (manic depression) for some time, she has a history of doing what she is doing now. 

She will come down from this hi eventually. It is up to me to decide if i want to be w/ someone like this knowing what i know now.

After talking to your here, friends, and family, it is time to put an end to this. She has got to be responsible for her actions.

I will file for mediation tomorrow morn and have appointment with lawyer tomorrow afternoon. 

IC suggested that couples can survive infedility and work with BPD2, but at this point i dont think she would;

1. listen to me 
2. want to put in the work

Then i would have to deal with a spouse that has BPD2 for the rest of my life, and who knows go through this again.

Time to cut my losses/gains (2 kids) and move on, hopefully to greener pastures.


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## lee101981

Sounds like you have thought this through.... At some point we all have to answer for our actions..


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## Chuck71

Trust is the key, could you trust her 100%.....then your decision is kinda already made. I wish things would turn out better for you. But we're here for you.


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## HiRoad

At this point as hard as it is for me to do this, she has backed me into a corner. 

In addition she has shown NO signs of wanting a R.

Her actions are speaking louder than her words.

We do not even talk on the phone, we are on text terms only.

I wish to Chuck, that i did not have to do this and that she would get out of her fog, but i have to take her out.

This is going to be tuff to do this to her


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## lee101981

I hate the feeling of being backed into a corner
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Just take high ground, she will drown. If she has 1% of mother to her, she will never get past the damage she caused to the kids. And then there is you.....she had a great guy.....hence 'had' as in....past tense. But your world is of three now, let her fly away.


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## HiRoad

Thats right, plus like i said she has not shown one ounce of regret, remorse, or guilt. So until then i am done.

I did not deserve this, even if she is sick, this is not acceptable behavior.

She has to be accountable for something.


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## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Thats right, plus like i said she has not shown one ounce of regret, remorse, or guilt. So until then i am done.
> 
> I did not deserve this, even if she is sick, this is not acceptable behavior.
> 
> She has to be accountable for something.


BPD to my knowledge doesn't inhibit your ability to acknowledge morality. It does contribute to temper and mood swings that I understand. But the person can still apologize on a down swing. I didn't know you could have a "two month" bpd swing. 

Scary.


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## HiRoad

She is def NOT on a down swing. She s still riding the high of her new man and the excitement that brings. BPD is defined by high risk behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

So mom sent her and email yesterday to discontinue go to stbxw for services at her business.

stbxw response was that she understand my moms need to support me. SHe has made her decisions based on yrs of resentment and hurt from her M to me not b/c of anyone else in her life (BS prob b/c of posOM) The kids ar #1 to me and she is trying to keep the peace with me (BS she has seen them 3 dys out of 15) Its been a rough yr and I trying to move foward. I hope the family can keep their judgements to themselves especially in front fo the kids, I ll aways love you - stbxw

She is sooo deep into her fog, that she is either going to crash hard or not look back at the damage she caused.

My vote is that posOM kicks her to the curb so she can feel some pain.


----------



## Chuck71

HiR-She is a crow, set her free. I can relate, had to meet her at the courthouse today.


----------



## HiRoad

I plan on it, what scares me the most .... she is going to crash hard and then she is going to come crawiling back and try to get me to fall into her trap.


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## Chuck71

spring the trap........therefore no trap.


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## HiRoad

Cant wait to meet with lawyer this afternoon to see what she says. SHe is suppose to be a real agressive cut-throat lawyer too.


----------



## zillard

hope4family said:


> BPD to my knowledge doesn't inhibit your ability to acknowledge morality. It does contribute to temper and mood swings that I understand. But the person can still apologize on a down swing. I didn't know you could have a "two month" bpd swing.
> 
> Scary.


BPD episodes do not usually last very long. Minutes to hours. If she is BPD then you are seeing multiple BPD episodes happening during this time. If bipolar you would see longer episodes that gradually build and do not happen instantly.

My stbxw has many BPD traits but it is unclear if she is full-fledged BPD or just learned behaviors due to being raised by a full-fledged BPD/NPD mother. 

If your stbxw does have BPD, best thing you can do for your kids is get em away from her as the emotional unavailability and angry outburst can give them lasting damage (PTSD, etc) as well as you. 

I was preparing to go for full custody of D6 until my stbxw became self aware of her destructive behavior and agreed to let me move out of state with D6. We did talk about custody before filing and I realize that I really lucked out there. Due to this I filed joint but made sure and got the custody agreement signed before even filing the petition. 

Now that I have the right to move away with D6, I pretty much get de facto FC (as long as still make an effort to co-parent - involve her in major decisions). If stbxw ever wants to be more involved and have more parenting time than what we specified (which is very little), it will up to her to follow me out of state. I have no obligation to come back.


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Then i would have to deal with a spouse that has BPD2 for the rest of my life, and who knows go through this again.


I have found this site very helpful and informative regarding BPD and what it does to children/family. 

Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners


----------



## HiRoad

are we talking about the same thing i was talking about bipolar disorder?


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> are we talking about the same thing i was talking about bipolar disorder?


Ok. I was talking about Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## HiRoad

she has BPD2 very similar to what catherine zeta jones suffers from.


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## familyfirst09

You are assuming she has BPD based on what you told your therapist, is it confirmed? Your therapist only hears what you tell her so I'm not sure its a reasonable diagonosis. I thinking you're looking for excuses to explain her behaviour, because you can't understand why she's doing this. I've done the same thing. How soon after baby number 2 did she start to change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF09 - she and i used to go to my thereapist a yr ago. Therapist suggest she come back in for IC for PTSD and other. Also wanted both her and I on lexapro, i got on it she did not. Nor did she ever come back in. Based on what therapist nows about her and what i have told her she is doing and based on her past, she is certain she is suffering from BPD2. She started to change during pregnancy of baby 2.


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## GutPunch

Why is YOUR therapist worried about what your wife is suffering from? She needs to work on you!


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## HiRoad

i asked her why this is all happening a few sessions ago, and that is what she explained to me. 

She was educating me on BPD2, and was asking me if this is something i really want to deal with for the rest of my life.

These potential swings back and forth of highs and lows. And her doing high risk behavior.


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## familyfirst09

Ahhh, that makes more sense if your therapist has met her. Its hard to try and find the "why" and its hard when we don't know. Continue to focus on yourself, your focusing a lot on her the last little while. She is a want, not a need, you will be the better man because you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

trying to get into the mind set of life without her.

Not easy, but right know i have to forget about her.

She has gone coo coo for coco puffs right now.

There are no more "ifs" , i am done with her, time to cut her loose.


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## GutPunch

OK then she makes a good point. Look at what she has done. Do you think you can reconcile? Would you take her back? What kind of person walks out on two babies? Do you love yourself? I think Hi that our situations are very similar. Your problem as well as mine is letting go. We loved our wives and they love themselves. We deserve better. Let's keep saying that to ourself. We deserve better. Detach!

Hell, my wife successfully divorced her parents when she was 16. She's a runner. I'm her second marriage.


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## HiRoad

GP it is hard b/c my IC told me to think of stbxw as someone who has an illness. That while she is "sick" she is not herself.

But who wants to live like that?

Also, I am a catholic and she has broken our vows, she committed adultery, that is a reason to divorce her alone. 

So, as much as i do not wnat to, i have to take her down. 

I need to do what is good for me, workout, go out, meet new people, date, do old hobbies, etc. 

She is like the titanic, it is matter of time till she hits iceberg.


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> GP it is hard b/c my IC told me to think of stbxw as someone who has an illness. That while she is "sick" she is not herself.
> 
> But who wants to live like that?
> 
> Also, I am a catholic and she has broken our vows, she committed adultery, that is a reason to divorce her alone.
> 
> So, as much as i do not wnat to, i have to take her down.
> 
> I need to do what is good for me, workout, go out, meet new people, date, do old hobbies, etc.
> 
> She is like the titanic, it is matter of time till she hits iceberg.


If you ran out and had an affair after being diagnosed with cancer, would it be ok? 

The illness helps explain, but it absolutely does not excuse. At all!


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## zillard

If you had traditional wedding vows, think about this: 

"I offer you my solemn vow to be your faithful partner in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad..."

That is not limited to being faithful to a sick spouse, but also when you ARE the sick spouse. She is "in sickness" and has not remained faithful. Vow broken.


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## hope4family

Were of the same mind Zillard. Vow broken. Keep your head up hi-road. I know were very similar in terms of "if she could just be reasonable for one second" line of thinking. Problem is bro, that being reasonable is for the birds.


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## HiRoad

Well talked to a couple friends that are pretty involved in the church.. they agree that she sinned and that i am free from the vows.!

Today was an easier day today... starting to turn the corner i hope.

The 2 friends also said that i will be better of.. glad she did this while i am still young 34

She probably would have done it eventually... and will so again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## K.C.

HiRoad said:


> She probably would have done it eventually... and will so again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree on the first bit. Without changing her ways and accepting her issues etc it would have happened at some point. As someone that considers he has been 'unwell' and is trying top sort himself out though i do believe she could change for the better if she accepted her responsibility and genuinely worked hard at it.

The kicker for me though is infidelity. While my depression hasn't been diagnosed as BP and I understand there are differences with he intense highs in BP, I don't think that justifies or excuses doing something morally wrong. I guess a BP high could make it more likely to act upon an urge but the urge still had to be there in the first place. Even at my most desperate for contact that I didn't think I was getting from my wife; I never ever considered breaking my vows. Heh, being depressed I may not have been able to act upon it if I had but I can happily look myself in the mirror and say I never once wanted to go outside my marriage.

To change, I think she would have to accept her illness and her infidelity as two SEPARATE issues. They may have a link in how one affected her decision in the other but if she was totally honest she would accept that the illness did not take away her knowledge of right and wrong.

For what it's worth, despite my sympathy and empathy for anyone struggling with a mental health issue, you are entirely justified in taking your stance. I hope she gets the help she needs to become a happier healthier person but that really isn't and shouldn't be your problem any more.

Also I am glad you have got support form someone your own faith, I hope that is a big help to you.


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## HiRoad

KC you. Are right there is no excuse for what she has done no matter how bad she thought the M was no excuse. I was not perfect and we were def in a valley of out marriage... but no excuse especially when there are 2 little kids involved.

Now she has chosen her path. Chose to go be with posOM. In my opinion she has broken all trust in our M and it would be difficult to repair. I dont think she had it in her.

That doesnt even begin to address the issue of my trust for her.

My focus is me and my kids the need stability and at least one present parent.

Right now there has been to much damage and i will let her go
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

And you also have all us kooky people on TAM for support too . We will get through this. And when they come back begging, we can hold our heads up high and say "no thanks" 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

. Thats righr FF09!! We have each other. We are amoung the few good ones left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Go over to the Social Spot, have some fun. Its a great distraction. Has helped me a lot. 

Also, have you seen this?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF090 i have seen that it is a good read!


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## K.C.

And yeah get over to the Social Spot. I have smiled more in the last 2 days from stuff there than from anything besides my kids in ages.


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## familyfirst09

Agreed KC!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Whats up, I just got caught up with your thread and I noticed you are letting go. I also wanted to mention all this talk about bi polor, meds and crashing won't make a bit of difference...until the OM is completely out of the picture all the meds and theropy won't matter.

The OM has her under his spell and until this spell is broken she will continue to be a bad mother. So as long as OM is in the picture forget about it. She is gone, but there will be a time were the spell will be broken and she will come back to her kids....you just can't wait..the kids don't diserve to be continuely disappoint about having mommy time.

So until the OM and STBXW break up consider her a threat. This OM is truelly a POS as he sits by watching a mother of young children neglecte them. so with that said make it a point with your lawyer to protect these babies from this POSOM and a neglectful mother.

This isn't about you my man, you have very young kids that need your up most focus! so take care of business and stop with the wifes fog...she ain't coming out of it until OM is gone. Only then can you even consider STBXW being a mother again.

Have you done a back round check on OM? You need to know who your kids will be around and if its a negitive back ground then it will help your case with cutody.


----------



## HiRoad

Guy - your absolutely right. I really think i may be turning the corner. 

i have accepted that stbxw is in a fog and I have told myslef that i will not accept her back into my life

if she dose not want to be a mom, fine i will step up to the plate and be super dad

As long as OM is influencing her then, yes she is as good as holy socks!

She is not being a mom right now.

I am certain that there is someone out there that would love to be with me and my kids. 

It will be easy, i am good looking and the kids are super cute! 

Her loss, someone elses gain.


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## familyfirst09

Geez, you keep saying you're good looking but you haven't posted a pic yet in the social spot thread, cmon, do it!!! You'll have fun, its great laughs and a great distraction from all this stuff 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF09 - this is part of my 180, also as recommended here, i listen to Glenn harold hypnotism self esteem audio, really helps builds self confdence. 

Not being narcisitic, try to think of the postives.

And yes, i will get arround to posting a pic soon


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## zillard

Do it hiroad. I need to see what I'm up against! Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Zillard I saw yours, very nice and good work, nice tats too! 
Where did you get the Glenn Harold audio from?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

@zillard - working on it! I'll get a recent one

@ff09 - try amazon or you can listen to it on youtube free. I do it before bed and fall asleep to it. Has done wonders.


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## familyfirst09

Great thanks!!! Sounds like something I could use as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown

HiRoad said:


> Based on what therapist nows about her and what i have told her she is doing and based on her past, she is certain she is suffering from BPD2.


HiRoad, as Zillard observed above, you are are confusing BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) with bipolar-1 disorder (i.e., aka "manic depression"). I mention this because, a month ago, you said your IC believes she has aspects of BOTH of those disorders. Specifically, you stated the following:


HiRoad said:


> My IC is certain she is having a manic-depressive episode with hints of BPD. [Your 12/9 post.]


I mention this because it would not be surprising if she has strong aspects of both manic depression (i.e., "bipolar disorder") and BPD. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults (pub. 2008) concluded that, of those adults exhibiting bipolar-1 behavior in the past 12 months, half of them also have full-blown BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). 

This distinction between bipolar-1 and BPD is extremely important because, whereas most bipolar sufferers are successfully treated by swallowing a pill, BPDers are extremely difficult to treat -- because it is rare for them to stay in treatment long enough to make a difference. Another reason the distinction is important is because both disorders are believed to have a strong genetic component that allows them to be passed along to some of the children.

I therefore suggest you read my description of the 12 differences I've seen between the two disorders. It is in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiety-depression-relationships/59344-confused.html#post1175425. I am not a psychologist. This description of differences is based on my experiences when living with a BPDer exW (15 years) and caring for my bipolar-1 foster son (more than 30 years) -- and my experiences in taking them to a long series of psychologists. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you.


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## HiRoad

That was a good read Up! thanks. 

Know that i have a better understanding and reading up on manic depression my self, i am certain my stbxw is suffering from a manic depressive episode. 

she is clearly still on her high.

dont know when she will come down, but i think it is going to be soon as she is running bone dry on money.

She is working a second job that is requiring her to travel ALOT

Taking her away from her kids, which i have now.

She is trading this for that.


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## BigMac

> This OM is truelly a POS as he sits by watching a mother of young children neglecte them. so with that said make it a point with your lawyer to protect these babies from this POSOM and a neglectful mother.


And this might play in HiR's favor. As soon as she ask for a " serious " relationship he'll dump her.

And she'll come out the fog very quickly realizing grass isn't greener as she thought .

HiR be patient and do your own thing , she'll run to you one day !


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## HiRoad

BigMac said:


> And this might play in HiR's favor. As soon as she ask for a " serious " relationship he'll dump her.
> 
> And she'll come out the fog very quickly realizing grass isn't greener as she thought .
> 
> HiR be patient and do your own thing , she'll run to you one day !


BM- your back  yes your right i am looking foward to thst day. And watching her squirm and beg. This is a case of grass is greener epeisode.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac

My W friends that D in the last 3 years they all regret doing it , so you just go ahead and have a fun and soon you'll get more and more txts like " how is your day going '


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## familyfirst09

I hope that happens (for both of us!!) But in order to be in the proper head space when this happens, you need to focus on yourself and your kids and not worry about her at all. You'll see the signs when she starts coming around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Yup your right. They all regret it. I am turning the corner. Really dont care what she does. Ill get on my computer and fill u all in on our text convo last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> I hope that happens (for both of us!!)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hope is a one way ticket to the pain train. It is definitely not a fun ride.


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## HiRoad

Ok, so we had a text convo last night about she wanting to talk to the kids.

Basically she asked to talk to the kids (she is in LA) and i told "ok"

Then she came back with "i try not to bother you when you have then kids, if its better i can call and leave a voice mail for them"

I told her, your their mom you can talk to them anytime you want, i didnt make the rules , if you dont feel comfortable its on you.

She told me she is beign respectful of my time and she is asking politely what would work.

I said up to you, just remember to return the favor. i would like to talk to everynight you have them before bed.

She said, it is for them she just wants PEACE, we have a lifetime to figure this out, lets take it day by day.

Then i told her, you got your peace, i do not bother you

Then she goes on to tell me that she has to deal with hurt and has been alone for a long time, and to not let the boys feel the pain. And asked to get the boys thier own cell phones (lol, they're 3 & 1.5, really)

So i told her it is not about US anymore, you made your choice, if you want to talk to our children.. call. Just give me a forwarning.

So she called and talked to the kids 2.5minutes.

Texted me and said thank you.
Then texted me, that her IC (BS she does not have one) recommended a book about how to get through D amicabley. 

I told her i would tell my IC about it.

then she told me about another one she is reading.

So i say, i am glad your reading books about D. I read 13 books on how to restore/save marriages.

She Sent this long responce, you read them on yur own and did not talk to me about them. I am glad you did your research. remeber i used to read you books in bed on codependency?

I said , we were codependnet .. to late though. The covenant has been broke.

Then nothing for the rest of the night


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## BigMac

> So i say, i am glad your reading books about D. *I read 13 books on how to restore/save marriages.*



That was bad !!! You're seeking her approval and you're showing her everything is about HER ! 

You would make much better impression if you answered like this :



> I am glad your reading books about D.Right now I'm reading Double your date from D.DeAngelo !


----------



## HiRoad

BM - Noted, show her i am moving on. 

Double you dating by D.DeAngleo, that is good! Lol.

Also to be honest I wanted to show her that "yes i tried, but now i dont care" hence;



> to late though. The covenant has been broke


Show her i am done, and dont care.


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## familyfirst09

But you're just showing her you DO care 
Try to keep any texts straight, to the point and emotionless. I know its hard, I have to try the same thing. 

GutPunch: we all have to have hope for something. Whether its for our WS to wake the frig up or for us to master the art of "meh"!! , for hiroad I hope for both!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

i am serious i am entering the "i dont give a fvck" phase right now. 

From what i hear this is where sometimes the WAW wakes up and by then it is too late.

@FF09 - i am not sure i am showing her i care at all, first we only text, second " i said i read" past tence, shows her i gave effort before she told me about posOM. Now i dont care, it is over.


----------



## BigMac

> From what i hear this is where sometimes the WAW wakes up and by then it is too late.


Exactly , the " how is your day going " texts started after I showed her I'm moving on and doesn't give a crap about her


----------



## familyfirst09

How do you "show" them you're moving on? Without actually dating someone else or is that the key?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Sorry brother but a couple of babies cuddeling a cell phone say good night to a voice they maybe heard in the last few weeks only a couple of times just doesn't cut. 
Geez maybe she can make a life size doll of her self and you can plug it in to say good night to the babies...you know what I mean?


So she takes on a second job for more money that requires more travel....again more bad choice!!!!!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, but having had to deal with this crap my self, it hits a sore spot for me.

My babies were in junior high and high school when my FWW bailed. Missing alot of events that kids in this age group have, ie. sport, band, and dances....... My daughters 1st dance....were the phuck was wife and how in the hell do you put up my daughters hair!!!!! My sons soccer games and award night...were the phuck was my wife when our boy got a troph, or even his 1st goal!!!!!!!

Its all bad man.

For what its worth, my old lady came back, she was there when my som got his driver licence, she was there for when my daughter went thru her first serious BF break up. ( I had to throw the good in. The negitive was making me trigger.

Ok back to your deal.... I can suggest you stop engaging her feels and responding to her statement. I have a feeling you will start to get alot more crap about "respecting your time with the kids" and "wanting to talk to the kids on the phone" and any other statement that sound like she is hurting and in pain... I mean there are consequences she will face for her choices and the abandonment issues you will be dealing in years to come won't even come close the little sh1t like not being around during the holidays.

Its like you might have to go to court and have a court order that makes her be a mom and forbiding any baby sitting during her time. I mean they have court orders of protection, maybe you can get a court oder of parental bounding 

1.5 & 3 geeze!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## the guy

HiRoad said:


> From what i hear this is where sometimes the WAW wakes up and by then it is too late.
> .


Its never to late when it comes to coming back and reconnecting with the kids.

Ya I know you were talking about you and her coming back to the marriage, but at this point I think the tactic in making her affair/new life style as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible is not about getting your wife back but get the kid's mother back.

Is there such a thing as parent abandonment fog?
Or is all lumped into the term affair fog?


----------



## the guy

If your 3 year old can draw it might be time to send mommy a "I miss you card"

Just saying


----------



## BigMac

familyfirst09 said:


> How do you "show" them you're moving on? Without actually dating someone else or is that the key?


Dating someone is the best way to show then you moved on yes .

You can show her you moved on by avoiding her , not answering calls and text, or when you see each other you act as annoyed , show her no interest in what she says, texting someone while she talk , busy and in hurry to leave , always dress as you're going on a first date , show confidence and happiness ... etc

Change you status on FB on single , a week later put " in relationship " , 2 weeks later change it to " in relationship with " and put some name even if fake if you don't have GF by then !


----------



## the guy

familyfirst09 said:


> How do you "show" them you're moving on? Without actually dating someone else or is that the key?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats the key.
You will be surprised how much time your STBXW will be around you "for the kids sake"


----------



## HiRoad

Guy - I am with you, my take, if she does not want to be a mom and would rather work and travel, so be it. 

I am glad i dont have to live with that. If she wants to be a tele-mom fine, i dont care. 

She has to deal with her decisions on her own. Anytime she engages me, she will get indiffernece, happiness, cheerfulness, and "the gave up" attitude from me

I am documenting everything for court. if i have to i will go for primary custody. She can be a weekend mom.

I am almost certain this will all catch to her at some point and she will crash. Then, i will get those texts, "what are the kids up too" or "how have you been". 

I am glad i am not in her shoes.


----------



## HiRoad

the guy said:


> Its never to late when it comes to coming back and reconnecting with the kids.
> 
> Ya I know you were talking about you and her coming back to the marriage, but at this point I think the tactic in making her affair/new life style as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible is not about getting your wife back but get the kid's mother back.
> 
> Is there such a thing as parent abandonment fog?
> Or is all lumped into the term affair fog?


your right! I think that this may be all one big FOG she is in. I really dont care what she does with posOM.

It is destin for failure, we all know that.


----------



## HiRoad

I plan on dating soon, i am reaching that point where it is time. 

I am certain she is going to start to show face alot more in the coming months. Once she catches wind of me dating she will start to feel the pain.

I am still 180ing my a$$ off, part of it includes dating, and being mysterious.

Not saying what the future has for me, but for now, i am having fun.

Ejoying kids, family and other women.


----------



## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> How do you "show" them you're moving on? Without actually dating someone else or is that the key?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen, if you really want to shake you WH to the core, start dating and make it obvious.

Start dressing nice and smelling good when he is around.
Start tanning, get new clothes
Be short, and aloof
dont engage in conversations
and many more

and trust me this will rock him, even if he does not show it


----------



## BigMac

Oh, if FF09 is a woman then her task is very easy ! Just go out twice with a men ( doesn't need to be BF , just act like a one ) and her H will run back begging and pleading crying and depressed ! Knowing she is dating other man will boost his possessive nature !


----------



## HiRoad

BigMac said:


> Oh, if FF09 is a woman then her task is very easy ! Just go out twice with a men ( doesn't need to be BF , just act like a one ) and her H will run back begging and pleading crying and depressed ! Knowing she is dating other man will boost his possessive nature !


Yes this is absolutley true!


----------



## familyfirst09

Yes I am a woman lol. I dunno...he keeps telling me to "move on". He's living with OW, maybe if he sees I'm "dating" (which I am definitely not ready yet to do) it will be more of a relief for him. Its a scary thought for me... 

HiRoad: have you done this yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

@FF09 - I am working on it, i need to get out more, hard when i constantly have the kids.

But i have signed up for a couple of online dating sites, plan to schedule at least a casual date to a restuarant she has friends at.

But i am acting like i am seeing someone, telling her i have plans, etc.

If she asks, then i will say "yes" there is someone i am dating.


----------



## BigMac

familyfirst09 said:


> Yes I am a woman lol. I dunno...he keeps telling me to "move on". He's living with OW, maybe if he sees I'm "dating" (which I am definitely not ready yet to do) it will be more of a relief for him. Its a scary thought for me...
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't believe a word of it ! My W told me the same , even on the divorce day she said " I wish you the best " and all BS with it, 2 weeks later she came crying asking for R .


----------



## Chuck71

Mac-When was this? How are things now?


----------



## BigMac

Chuck71 said:


> Mac-When was this? How are things now?


Month ago , things are going well , as you can see we R under my conditions . She is moving with me on the end of the month .


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## 06Daddio08

BigMac said:


> Month ago , things are going well , as you can see we R under my conditions . She is moving with me on the end of the month .


Good luck.


----------



## Chuck71

Mac is there a thread on that here?


----------



## BigMac

Chuck71 said:


> Mac is there a thread on that here?


I removed my old thread since it isn't relevant anymore .I may open one in the R section .

Basically I showed her I'm moving on without her , played the jealousy card , she chased me for about 10 days and then after several heavy talks we got back together . The D is going on , the decree should be here any day now .


----------



## Chuck71

"The D is going on , the decree should be here any day now ."


We you divorced officially when she turned around?


----------



## BigMac

Chuck71 said:


> "The D is going on , the decree should be here any day now ."
> 
> 
> We you divorced officially when she turned around?



Yes , 11 days to be correct after the court day she asked for R.

She even asked several times to stop the D I said NO. 

Lets try as " singles " and that is it, she agreed !


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## Chuck71

11 days after you filed? OK I thought it was after it was final. My error


----------



## HiRoad

BM - Boy BM you really played your cards right!? 

Your ok with everything the way it is going right know?


----------



## BigMac

Chuck - 11 days after we went in front of the judge .

HiR - I decided to give it another shot since she met all my requirements . And the D is going on just in case


----------



## Chuck71

This is my first rodeo, what does it mean when you go in front of judge and when it is final? I must have missed a homework assignment


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## BigMac

Chuck71 said:


> This is my first rodeo, what does it mean when you go in front of judge and when it is final? I must have missed a homework assignment


After asking you some questions then she said - as of today you're D and we'll get the decree within 30 biz days.


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## Chuck71

I was not aware, but I guess it is state to state. I dunno. I rode by the house today and will post on C/SoS.....Hi needs his thread back lol. hang in there HiR......you're in my thoughts....you have my #


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## HiRoad

No, prob, i am getting alot of infor from you too 

I dont mind.

Plus it you and BM, you guys are the men!


----------



## familyfirst09

I agree. I'm was gonna say I need to grow a "set" but that wouldn't be very lady like 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

lmao i'm sure Entertainment Tonight would do an exclusive FF


----------



## HiRoad

My mom and aunt ran into SIL, nephew, niece and her husband at grocery. 

I guess they chatted a bit, but it was small talk. SIL did not mention stbxw or me, just that she missed everyone.

Also that her mom (MIL) finally got a BF, after 20yrs single. And it has been all about her new BF. Apparently MIL was not here for holidays including NYE.

Left SIL and stbxw alone by themselves, of course i am sure stbxw was with posOM.

SIL bday was the other day, i texted her happy bday, she said that i was one of only a few that wished her happy bday, not even her mom did, she was w/ new BF.

That side of the family always had issues. 

Also, I have seen pics of SIL at the FILs xmas party with posOM. I dont trust FIL, MIL, SIL, they are in cohoots.


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## Chuck71

That side of the family has more issues than Sports Illustrated from what you are telling


----------



## HiRoad

Yes, this is true, Chuck. For the longest time i thought my stbxw was the only one who had the sh1t together. But i was wrong. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck.

She has been texting alot more. 

Last nite asked again how the kids were doing.

Me i said, there good, oldest is tired. So she sends another text, tell them that mommy loves them very much. I was like "ok".

Someone is putting on a show, or starting to feel like a shi!!y mom.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Yes, this is true, Chuck. For the longest time i thought my stbxw was the only one who had the sh1t together. But i was wrong. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck.
> 
> She has been texting alot more.
> 
> Last nite asked again how the kids were doing.
> 
> Me i said, there good, oldest is tired. So she sends another text, tell them that mommy loves them very much. I was like "ok".
> 
> Someone is putting on a show, or starting to feel like a shi!!y mom.


I stopped responding to texts asking about D6 while she is in my care, unless it's keeping her informed of illness/doctor, etc. 

If stbxw didn't trust me as a father, she should not have given me primary caregiver status. No need to respond to her "did she have a shower" and "what is she eating for dinner" type texts.

Also no need to respond to the "we're making cookies" type texts when she has D6. Instead I give her a rundown of the weeks events at drop off time. 

My IC said if this doesn't work, then schedule a weekly call at a specific time and day where D6's well being and updates can be discussed. Also to make it clear beforehand that if she goes on a tangent during a call that I will hangup and the call will be rescheduled.


----------



## HiRoad

zillard said:


> I stopped responding to texts asking about D6 while she is in my care, unless it's keeping her informed of illness/doctor, etc.
> 
> If stbxw didn't trust me as a father, she should not have given me primary caregiver status. No need to respond to her "did she have a shower" and "what is she eating for dinner" type texts.



Z, what exactly is _primary custody_ in arizona mean. I was goign to try to get it here in Ca, based on the fact that I have the kids alot more and that she travels alot for work. Therefore, I am the more stable parent and can provide more conisistency and routine for kids.


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> Yes, this is true, Chuck. For the longest time i thought my stbxw was the only one who had the sh1t together. But i was wrong. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck.



HAHA I made the same mistake. If you think you got the sane one in a crazy family, it's just a matter of time before you find out that they are all crazy. :rofl:


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> HAHA I made the same mistake. If you think you got the sane one in a crazy family, it's just a matter of time before you find out that they are all crazy. :rofl:


My cousin said it right, "all women have a little bit of crazy in them, it is a matter of how much you willing to put up with"


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Z, what exactly is _primary custody_ in arizona mean. I was goign to try to get it here in Ca, based on the fact that I have the kids alot more and that she travels alot for work. Therefore, I am the more stable parent and can provide more conisistency and routine for kids.


Tricky here as at the start of the year they just got rid of the word "custody" all together. Now it's "parenting time" or something similar. 

But basically there are two forms of "custody" - legal and physical. 

Full legal custody means you make major decisions about children and then inform the other parent. Joint legal means you both discuss major decisions and come to an agreement, then move forward. In AZ it is possible to specify who has the last say if an agreement cannot be reached (which really isn't much different than full legal, you just have to make an attempt first).

"Primary Caregiver" or "Custodial Parent" is whoever physically has the children the majority of the year. If a disagreement ever goes to court to be settled, this parent's preference is often given more weight as they are more aware of the chilld's needs... unless proven otherwise by the non-custodial parent. 

In my situation we chose joint legal but I am the custodial parent with the right to relocate out of state. Until then I have D6 six nights a week and after the move I have her minus some holidays and some school breaks (winter break but alternating Xmas, summer break minus 2 wks vacation with me).


----------



## HiRoad

I think i am going to ask my lawyer about this to see how possible it is for me to get.


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## GutPunch

That is how my wife and I are verbally agreed to since Oct. Shared legal and I have primary custody.


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> I think i am going to ask my lawyer about this to see how possible it is for me to get.


Here the courts are still very mom-friendly. They rarely award full custody here unless it can be proven that the mother is unfit... or she agrees. 

So even though I have multiple emails from stbxw questioning her own abilities as a mother, and a journal documenting her lack of parenting time and instances where she has not followed through with parental responsibilities, I agreed to joint legal. Had she not agreed to allow me to relocate with D6, I would've gone to battle.

I was very lucky. But I know my stbxw very well and had I served her out of the blue with request for full custody she would have seen it as an assault and gone to her wealthy grandmother to fund a battle - and I would have been outmatched financially. This is why I made an effort to get a custody agreement signed so I could file it along with the D petition. After that if she changed her mind during the process and ran to GM, I would have a case for making them also pay my legal fees for going back on initial agreement.

So you really should look at this from all angles and discuss all your options with an attorney. But first decide what is most important to you. What are you willing to give up and what is your ultimate goal? 

My ultimate goal was moving with D6, even if I had to give her the house, money and everything else in the process. Luckily I got what I wanted and we are still splitting the house.


----------



## HiRoad

Man, this is a true test of ones ability to stategize. What works for me is that me stbxw has no $$$ niether does her family.

I am the one with the $$$ and family support. 

Fortunately, I have been documenting her time with the kids and the fact that she has been out of town mutliple weekends for either work or pleasure.

I hope this works in my favor, as Ca. is a mom-firendly state too.

I have a child custody agreement that she has reviewed but not signed as of yet. I am going to have lawyer review it first.

My utlitmate goal is the well-being of the kids, the need stability and routine. Mom cannot do that if she is constantly changing our pre-arragend schedule and is out of town alot.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> My utlitmate goal is the well-being of the kids, the need stability and routine. Mom cannot do that if she is constantly changing our pre-arragend schedule and is out of town alot.


Completely agree! 

Hence my desire to return to my hometown where I have a huge, loving, stable family support system. D6 will have GM+GP, 9 aunts and uncles plus their spouses, and 20+ cousins. 

Here she has me and 1/2 a mom.


----------



## familyfirst09

I know things are different where I'm at, NS Canada but look up the laws for abandonment in your area. Here its limited or no support for a minimum of 6 months. You can also prove you are primary caregiver by showing what are the things YOU do with and for the children - that you are the one that usually does their "routine" - bath, supper, daycare, activities, books, etc. 
It might even help to think back and record who was responsible for what even before your wife moved out. Who was the primary caregiver when you were both living together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

FF09 - that is a great point, she did alot of that when we were still M, but now the roles have changed especcially since she is gone so much.

I will need to go back over my notes to see if i can tie that in anywhere.

I need to be careful as to not look vindictive, the court can sniff that out. 

I need to make about the kids and there well being, as a good parent should.


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## familyfirst09

Do you think you are being vindictive tho? Are you doing this out of anger? Have you thought about what it would be like to have full custody of 2 small children? 

What happen with the arrangement that you and your W had?

For my situation, I have always been the primary caregiver, even when things were good so I have a very solid case and his contact/support has been extremely limited in the past 4 months or so. I already have full costody but nothing official. But I am scared that my emotions will get in the way, right now, of making the best decision for D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Do you think you are being vindictive tho? Are you doing this out of anger? Have you thought about what it would be like to have full custody of 2 small children?
> 
> What happen with the arrangement that you and your W had?
> 
> For my situation, I have always been the primary caregiver, even when things were good so I have a very solid case and his contact/support has been extremely limited in the past 4 months or so. I already have full costody but nothing official. But I am scared that my emotions will get in the way, right now, of making the best decision for D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, not vindictive, I would like for her to be the mom she used to be.

But more and more that is becoming a pipe dream.

So i need to step up and fill the role she has relinquished.

I dont mind raising the kids, thier mine. I would embrace it.

My W cannot committ to any iformal arrangement right now. SHe is too busy trying to be career woman.


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## familyfirst09

Didn't you at one point have them sun-wed and her the other days or something like that? That fell to the wayside has it? When I found out about POWOW H was supposed to have D every second weekend, when we still lived together, he did stay home friday and saturday nights but still did his thing during the days on his weekend. Then when he moved out, he hasn't spent a single weekend with her and only 2 visits during the weekend. So unfortunately, WS priorities change and OM/OW becomes more the priority.  take care of your kids. 

I have a friend, man, who just contacted me recently, haven't talked to him in a long time. His wife left him and his kids so he's a full time dad and he loves it. The wife even moved out of state. He's your age, his kids are older tho. But he gives me hope that I can be a full time mom, because frankly, same days it scares the heck out of me. But I can do it and have been. You can do it too and your kids will thank you for it later 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Didn't you at one point have them sun-wed and her the other days or something like that? That fell to the wayside has it? When I found out about POWOW H was supposed to have D every second weekend, when we still lived together, he did stay home friday and saturday nights but still did his thing during the days on his weekend. Then when he moved out, he hasn't spent a single weekend with her and only 2 visits during the weekend. So unfortunately, WS priorities change and OM/OW becomes more the priority.  take care of your kids.
> 
> I have a friend, man, who just contacted me recently, haven't talked to him in a long time. His wife left him and his kids so he's a full time dad and he loves it. The wife even moved out of state. He's your age, his kids are older tho. But he gives me hope that I can be a full time mom, because frankly, same days it scares the heck out of me. But I can do it and have been. You can do it too and your kids will thank you for it later
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes the agreement at one point was i have them W Th F and W Th F Sa Su.

But that all went out the window around xmas when:

- she showed up half drunk xmas day
- left to vegas on her weekend with the kids
- is traveling alot more for work

So now i am working around her schedule.

So yes, your right the posOM and her career are now her priority and the kids are now 3rd in line.

If she keeps this up, i will gladly take full custody of the kids and she can do whatever she wants.

The kids will grow-up with me and i will care for them.


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## familyfirst09

Good for you 
You can't make her be a mother as we both know all you can do is be the best father you can be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

*just got rid of the word "custody" all together. Now it's "parenting time*

nothing like the government thinking if you change the language, you change the meaning. What next.....define away the words mother and father?


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## familyfirst09

HiRoad: what was that meditation thing you said about self-esteem/confidence building?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> HiRoad: what was that meditation thing you said about self-esteem/confidence building?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It builds self confirdence.

Self-awareness and self -esteem


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## HiRoad

met with stbxw this am early to do kids exchange. 

It seems that after everything that is going on, I can feel that she is scared of me. 

She is scatter brained (or was in a rush) becasue she unloaded oldest from my car and just left the door open.

I loaded youngest into her car and then she told me she got it.

I gave both kids XOXO's and then she was off, only thing i said to her was i am p/u kids on Fri. @ 4pm.

Wierd!


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> met with stbxw this am early to do kids exchange.
> 
> It seems that after everything that is going on, I can feel that she is scared of me.
> 
> She is scatter brained (or was in a rush) becasue she unloaded oldest from my car and just left the door open.
> 
> I loaded youngest into her car and then she told me she got it.
> 
> I gave both kids XOXO's and then she was off, only thing i said to her was i am p/u kids on Fri. @ 4pm.
> 
> Wierd!


She's likely feeling guilty and uncomfortable. A bit rejected too because she can see you moving on. 

My stbxw has been very similar when dropping off d6. She can't wait to get away from my house, often leaving behind. 

Also when I drop off at her apt and am happily saying goodbye to d6 that is when she's start to get disrespectful. Unconsciously to get me to leave. 

They express a desire to be friends and be in the same room with no tension but often the ones feeling the most tension in those situations as they are in disbelief that we could start moving on without them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

That might be it Z.

I am not sure, but i could careless.

I def. would not want to be in her shoes.

D me, lost in-law family, everyone knows about posOM, mom is non-existant, yea i would not want to be her.

It keeps getting weirder and weirder.

On the other hand I have been keeping my deacon up to speed on what is going on. He told me that as god as his witness he had a dream about me and stbxw R'ing?? 

Weird day.


----------



## hope4family

I am a firm Christian man. New Years Day, I dreamed that my wife left me and abandoned me. I woke up and it was reality. Does that make it any more or less of God? 

I am glad you speak with those at your church. It will give you a support that is familiar in these times. However, I have had many people tell me everything from, "God showed me that she wants to reconcile." To, "God tells me to go get your wife today." 

My faith tells me never to speak in absolutes. So, while reconciliation for you is possible. It is at this point, unlikely.


----------



## HiRoad

Hope i am with ya, R is not likely b/c first, it would be on MY terms, and second, i dont want that RIGHT KNOW.


----------



## Chuck71

Hope is right, never ever speak in absolutes. As from Star Wars III "only sith lords speak in absolutes" yeah i'm a sci fi junkie shoot me lol


----------



## hope4family

At the end of the day you must do what is best for you and your children. This has nothing to do with your s2bxw decisions. Besides she has already chosen her path.

The Star Wars quote is spot on. I honestly believe the air of selfishness that people bring on their victimized spouses is hardly ever deserved.


----------



## HiRoad

Yes the "force is strong" with you all. 

I am working on it. Good news is that i finally registered for a dating website and it did not take long.

I have been talking to this girl online she lives in the same town as me, so we are talking about going out some time this week 

I am moving on, riding of into the sunset, not looking back.

I am not focued on what s2bxw is doing. 

Although she has the kids until Fr 4pm. I called last night to talk to the kids and she was obviously not home, prob at posOM house. She called from her car and she was "leading" my oldest, telling him what to say. Rather than let him talk to me she was telling him "say goodnight daddy". On top of that it was like 840 at night, they should have been in bed or at least laying in bed by then. They re only 3 & 1.5 Instead she had them out. 

I will document that too, i guess, but at this point i have to let her do what she wants.


----------



## hope4family

Document it. But understand that when she has the children they can "do what she wants" in regards to bedtime. 

Document anyway.


----------



## HiRoad

Alright, so to stay true to form i sent stbxw a text right around kids bedtime (8pm) told her i am going to call to tell kids night. No response

20 min i just call. No answer
; 
15 min later i text "have not heard from you hope kids are ok. would have been nice to talk to the before bed."

15 min later stbxw texts "kids are good im moving right now mom is in bed with them""i can have them talk to you in am"

I tell stbxw i would prefer to talk to them before bed. Can you ry to keep them on a schedule they need structure and consistency

Stbxw " i am not going to promise you that you that you will talk to them every night. I am doing the best i can HiRoad"

K.. so how do i handle this.

Also she is moving (renting) into another house with her mom so SILs family can live in MIL house. She lost her job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> Alright, so to stay true to form i sent stbxw a text right around kids bedtime (8pm) told her i am going to call to tell kids night. No response
> 
> 20 min i just call. No answer
> ;
> 15 min later i text "have not heard from you hope kids are ok. would have been nice to talk to the before bed."
> 
> 15 min later stbxw texts "kids are good im moving right now mom is in bed with them""i can have them talk to you in am"
> 
> I tell stbxw i would prefer to talk to them before bed. Can you ry to keep them on a schedule they need structure and consistency
> 
> Stbxw " i am not going to promise you that you that you will talk to them every night. I am doing the best i can HiRoad"
> 
> K.. so how do i handle this.
> 
> Also she is moving (renting) into another house with her mom so SILs family can live in MIL house. She lost her job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you guys doing 50/50?


----------



## HiRoad

Yes.. informally nothing is final yet.

But its more like 65me/35 her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> Yes.. informally nothing is final yet.
> 
> But its more like 65me/35 her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


May I ask why you must call the kids every single night they aren't with you?


----------



## HiRoad

I dont.. yes it would be nice.. but i noticed when she is out of town she wants to talk to them alot. 

So i am like well if i am doing it for her she should do it for me. 

Now that she is telling me she cant.. when she leaves to new york this weekend to next week.. guess what.. your on your own stbxw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> I dont.. yes it would be nice.. but i noticed when she is out of town she wants to talk to them alot.
> 
> So i am like well if i am doing it for her she should do it for me.
> 
> Now that she is telling me she cant.. when she leaves to new york this weekend to next week.. guess what.. your on your own stbxw.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you able to make new arrangements / schedule for phone calls?

Every other day perhaps?


----------



## HiRoad

Possible.. but stbxw and i have been in NC for a while. 

Text only... her not me. Business on kids only.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

This is kid related.

Co-Parenting required.


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## Chuck71

Hi-What dating site are you using....just curious. You should tell her "I am not comfortable with the fact you can talk to the children nightly and I am not. We should facilitate an equal arrangement and stick to it." If she does not like it, "I'm sorry you feel that way."


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## 06Daddio08

Every night is not realistic.


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## familyfirst09

Why isn't it realistic? The agreement they have is not formal and is not followed by stbxw. Its still very new to the children so there should be a lot of access and calls. I've got the opposite problem with my WH doesn't call enough!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

It's not realistic to think that the parent will be able to call or wait around to receive a call every single day.

The children need to get used to the fact that they won't hear from each parent ever day as well.


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## hope4family

UpnOver said:


> It's not realistic to think that the parent will be able to call or wait around to receive a call every single day.
> 
> The children need to get used to the fact that they won't hear from each parent ever day as well.



A brutal truth.


----------



## 06Daddio08

hope4family said:


> A brutal truth.


It's hard.

Without a doubt.

I go two weeks at a time not seeing my little ones.

Only call them twice a week.

See then on Saturday while my daughter dances.

Between the two weeks on Sunday I take them out for dinner.

Once a week I try to stop by and say hello to them at daycare.

At the same time though, they have to get used to the way things are.

They ask me to let them come to my place every time I see them.

I don't enjoy the feeling it leaves me, but they will never know.

I smile, reassure them and tell them it's important to be with mom as well.


----------



## hope4family

UpnOver said:


> It's hard.
> 
> Without a doubt.
> 
> I go two weeks at a time not seeing my little ones.
> 
> Only call them twice a week.
> 
> See then on Saturday while my daughter dances.
> 
> Between the two weeks on Sunday I take them out for dinner.
> 
> Once a week I try to stop by and say hello to them at daycare.
> 
> At the same time though, they have to get used to the way things are.
> 
> They ask me to let them come to my place every time I see them.
> 
> I don't enjoy the feeling it leaves me, but they will never know.
> 
> I smile, reassure them and tell them it's important to be with mom as well.


To add to this. I never talk to my s2bxw when she is going to pick up the kid. Period. She lets me know. Sometimes its once a week, or once every two weeks. I have a very free floating parent plan that she doesn't follow but I respect her wishes most of the time. (As its still less then the plan and she gives me more then 2 days notice now.) 

It's all brutal, and i'm sure its hard on DS. But if he gets used to it now. I won't have to worry about it when he is 7 8 or 9. He is currently 1.


----------



## familyfirst09

what is a "free floating" parenting plan?

I can't imagine not talking to my daughter every day!! When my H walked out he made not arrangements or anything, that was almost 2 months ago. He barely calls and "pops" in to our home to see her every once in a while.


----------



## HiRoad

@Up, she is doing a little bit of cakeeating, and i am tryig to put a stop to it. She is esseentially dictatiing the kid schedule according to her travel schedule, and her posOM schedule. She is being a mom when it is convienent for her.

@chuck, i used POF. The convo that we have i plan on telling her that, or soemthing along those lines. She leaves to NY this weekend and wont be back for 5-6days. So if this is the way she wants it, i can ablidge.

I never responded to her last text, figured i would just document it. 

On top of that since she was moving last night, one would thing that posOM was there helping. Either way, she is lost.

Good news is that the "new" girl I am talking to online really has her stuff together, we have so much in common.


----------



## hope4family

familyfirst09 said:


> what is a "free floating" parenting plan?
> 
> I can't imagine not talking to my daughter every day!! When my H walked out he made not arrangements or anything, that was almost 2 months ago. He barely calls and "pops" in to our home to see her every once in a while.


Meaning. In the state I live in. You can write a parent plan. But if things go bad, and you can no longer be amicable. She HAS to stick to our parent plan. 

Otherwise even though it says she can only have him overnight on the weekend. If she lets me know she can only have him Thursday overnight. (He is 1) I can say yes as long as we work it out. To me that's being amicable, but it is outside of our parent plan.


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> @Up, she is doing a little bit of cakeeating, and i am tryig to put a stop to it. *She is esseentially dictatiing the kid schedule according to her travel schedule, and her posOM schedule. She is being a mom when it is convienent for her.*
> 
> @chuck, i used POF. The convo that we have i plan on telling her that, or soemthing along those lines. She leaves to NY this weekend and wont be back for 5-6days. So if this is the way she wants it, i can ablidge.
> 
> I never responded to her last text, figured i would just document it.
> 
> On top of that since she was moving last night, one would thing that posOM was there helping. Either way, she is lost.
> 
> Good news is that the "new" girl I am talking to online really has her stuff together, we have so much in common.


Not to be an ass. But if her dictating the travel schedule means you get the kids more. I'd document it, and push for more time when the appropriate time comes. 

She may be cake eating, and it is wrong of her. But if you get the kids more as a result on a more permanent basis and she lives in ignorance. To me thats a win. Not a loss.


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> Not to be an ass. But if her dictating the travel schedule means you get the kids more. I'd document it, and push for more time when the appropriate time comes.
> 
> She may be cake eating, and it is wrong of her. But if you get the kids more as a result on a more permanent basis and she lives in ignorance. To me thats a win. Not a loss.


At this point we are still in D limbo.

I am giving her enough rope to hang herself, she knows that i am non-confrontational, but she has a suprise waiting for her!

I am going to push for "primary custodiaonship" based on her behavior, travel schedule, how much time kids spend with me, and her lack of regard for consistency for the kids.


----------



## HiRoad

Well stbxw just called and tried to get kids to talk to me, but they were still waking-up


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Well stbxw just called and tried to get kids to talk to me, but they were still waking-up


IMO when she calls. Stop answering. Let her leave a voicemail.

Edit: Between you and me. Her children are not a "business relationship" and you two she as heck are not married. What she is doing is unacceptable, and cannot be maintained realistically. So it might be best to start cutting it now.


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> IMO when she calls. Stop answering. Let her leave a voicemail.
> 
> Edit: Between you and me. Her children are not a "business relationship" and you two she as heck are not married. What she is doing is unacceptable, and cannot be maintained realistically. So it might be best to start cutting it now.


I may start doing this. 

When the kids are with me they are on a strict schedule, breakfast, lunch snacks, naps, and bedtime are right on time. 

Stbxw does not abide by this, i have called her and she is still driving around with them (prob from posOM house) at 830pm at night. THey are 3 & 1.5, threre not pets you jocky around with you to socialize.


----------



## HiRoad

K, she just called again!? 

I let it go to voicemail, she left a message of her telling the kids what to say to me.


----------



## hope4family

Good be happy she did that. Remember hiroad. This is all part of the mind games. Innocent or not.


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> Good be happy she did that. Remember hiroad. This is all part of the mind games. Innocent or not.


At this point Hope4 i could careless, i am just trying to move on, be happy focus on my needs and my kids needs and thats it.

She can have her new life and posOM, i am better and deserve better than that.

You know?


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> I may start doing this.
> 
> When the kids are with me they are on a strict schedule, breakfast, lunch snacks, naps, and bedtime are right on time.
> 
> Stbxw does not abide by this, i have called her and she is still driving around with them (prob from posOM house) at 830pm at night. THey are 3 & 1.5, threre not pets you jocky around with you to socialize.


Your ex doesn't have to abide by your routines.


----------



## hope4family

UpnOver, while you are correct in this. I think hi-roads thought is that she isn't providing stability by giving ANY routine at all. She isn't consistent when she watches them or anything else for that matter.


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> UpnOver, while you are correct in this. I think hi-roads thought is that she isn't providing stability by giving ANY routine at all. She isn't consistent when she watches them or anything else for that matter.


Yes, she is about at stable as foam bridge and ive seen better routines on animal kingdom!

Point being is that she is still not being at least 20% mom right now. 

Which is at the detriment to the kids, it too bad.


----------



## Chuck71

At this rate with her erratic behaviour...it may not be long after the D, DCHS may have to get involved. Glad you're at least going for FC, might work. Be sure to indicate if the children are left in anyone else's care (her business trips) you are to be notified beforehand....and approved.


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> Yes, she is about at stable as foam bridge and ive seen better routines on animal kingdom!
> 
> Point being is that she is still not being at least 20% mom right now.
> 
> Which is at the detriment to the kids, it too bad.





Chuck71 said:


> At this rate with her erratic behaviour...it may not be long after the D, DCHS may have to get involved. Glad you're at least going for FC, might work. Be sure to indicate if the children are left in anyone else's care (her business trips) you are to be notified beforehand....and approved.


An arrangement can be made so that if the kids are lets say, in need of a sitter for anything over 4 hours, that the other parent must be asked first.

Other than that, she can have whoever she wants watching the kids.

Unless you can without a doubt prove that they are harmful to the children.

I've been told straight to my face.

If the kids are over there and all they do is get told to watch tv or play video games, stay up super late and eat nothing but junk food.

Not much you can do about it.


----------



## HiRoad

I understand this too, which is why I hope to get more time with them than her, due to her instability.

I am hoping that she keeps up her antics and I can take her to court and get at least primary custody.

I may just go for 50/50 and stipulate everything in the CCA, knowing that she has to travel for work and has to spend time with posOM, this would set up for me spending the majority of the time with them.


----------



## 06Daddio08

HiRoad said:


> I understand this too, which is why I hope to get more time with them than her, due to her instability.
> 
> I am hoping that she keeps up her antics and I can take her to court and get at least primary custody.
> 
> I may just go for 50/50 and stipulate everything in the CCA, knowing that she has to travel for work and *has to spend time with posOM*, this would set up for me spending the majority of the time with them.


This will matter very little to the courts.


----------



## vi_bride04

Yeah, the courts really don't give two craps about the romantic partners of the parents. Even if it is an AP.


----------



## the guy

UpnOver said:


> It's not realistic to think that the parent will be able to call or wait around to receive a call every single day.
> 
> The children need to get used to the fact that they won't hear from each parent ever day as well.


BS these babies should be getting ready for bed each and every night ata set schedule...period

So with that said way in the hell can't a parent make a call at a consistant time right before bed...every freaking nigh he is away from them.

Sorry UpnOver, this just tells me STBXW is irrsponsable parent who has no consistantcy in her life...one of which these babies need to have.

My god this women can't commit to putting the babaies to bed at a consistant time??????


----------



## the guy

vi_bride04 said:


> Yeah, the courts really don't give two craps about the romantic partners of the parents. Even if it is an AP.


If this romantic partners is a felon then that changes and a Op can be made keeping the OM away from the kids. Were there is a will there is away, and STBXW life style is not best for the kids.


----------



## the guy

HiR, this crap has gone on long enough, get into court and get rid of this informal custody you have....I mean damb it if she has the kids then she has the kids!!!!!!!!!! there has to be away to get a court order that impliment parenting...cuz your STBXW is breaking every parenting practice there is!!!


----------



## the guy

Sorry for the rant, you know where I stand when it comes to this bull sh1t!


----------



## hope4family

the guy said:


> BS these babies should be getting ready for bed each and every night ata set schedule...period
> 
> So with that said way in the hell can't a parent make a call at a consistant time right before bed...every freaking nigh he is away from them.
> 
> Sorry UpnOver, this just tells me STBXW is irrsponsable parent who has no consistantcy in her life...one of which these babies need to have.
> 
> My god this women can't commit to putting the babaies to bed at a consistant time??????


On a side note. A lot of committed parents could have trouble putting babies to bed at a consistent time for a long time. 

Was it easier for me? Sure, I have helped raise 20+ nieces and nephews, changed thousands of diapers, hundreds of canned baby food servings, tons of child interaction. 

A court can't look at a consistent bed time as a reason to make someone an unfit parent. Otherwise we would all be guilty of being a terrible parent and should have our rights taken away.


----------



## the guy

HiRoad said:


> Well stbxw just called and tried to get kids to talk to me, but they were still waking-up


Of course they were still waking up, they didn't go to bed until god knows when!!!!

Man I'm on a roll.


----------



## HiRoad

Guy, your right, i need to get her into court, but i have to be patient and let her do the damage first to build my case. 

I cant just walk into court and say "look at what she has been doing the last month" the court will not care.

But if i go in there and just present the facts, and say this has been going on for mutliple months, then i may have some ground to stand on.

Courts have a way of sniffing out if one parent is being a dead beat or irresponsible. They can see throught the facts to get the story. If mom is dumping kids off here and there, the court is going to ask why.

Upnover, has a point though, there are certain things that are out of my control. If she wants to feed them chips and ice cream for dinner, outa my control. If she wants to take them to posOMs house and he has no criminal record, outa my control.

I need to focus on what i have control over, this is a wicked game of chess.


----------



## 06Daddio08

the guy said:


> BS these babies should be getting ready for bed each and every night ata set schedule...period
> 
> So with that said way in the hell can't a parent make a call at a consistant time right before bed...every freaking nigh he is away from them.
> 
> Sorry UpnOver, this just tells me STBXW is irrsponsable parent who has no consistantcy in her life...one of which these babies need to have.
> 
> My god this women can't commit to putting the babaies to bed at a consistant time??????


Wasn't aware life was based on a strict, unwavering set of rules.

I stand by what I said.


----------



## 06Daddio08

the guy said:


> If this romantic partners is a felon then that changes and a Op can be made keeping the OM away from the kids. Were there is a will there is away, and STBXW life style is not best for the kids.


Hardly.

Much worse happens daily.


----------



## the guy

@h4f, I get it, I got two my self, but back in the day when my oldlady was out screwing around she missed alot when they were pre teens

In this case the kids are just so damb young and it just realy gets me.

Having been there I just get worked up and IMHO it time for this crap to stop and enough of this informal schedule, and all this and that...its not about bed time, it about the whole damb sitch and OP's STBXW parenting sucks .......

Geeze 1.5 and 3 years old.....

HiR let me buy you a drink next time your in SD


----------



## 06Daddio08

the guy said:


> HiR, this crap has gone on long enough, get into court and get rid of this informal custody you have....I mean damb it if she has the kids then she has the kids!!!!!!!!!! there has to be away to get a court order that impliment parenting...cuz your STBXW is breaking every parenting practice there is!!!


Not really.


----------



## the guy

HiRoad said:


> Guy, your right, i need to get her into court, but i have to be patient and let her do the damage first to build my case.
> 
> I cant just walk into court and say "look at what she has been doing the last month" the court will not care.
> 
> But if i go in there and just present the facts, and say this has been going on for mutliple months, then i may have some ground to stand on.
> 
> Courts have a way of sniffing out if one parent is being a dead beat or irresponsible. They can see throught the facts to get the story. If mom is dumping kids off here and there, the court is going to ask why.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> I'm laughing cuz your settling me down usually its the other way around.....
> 
> Like I said this crap hits close to home.
> 
> Ya folks I get a little worked up but HiR has shown me he has it handled or at the very least has a plan and is working the plan.
> 
> Sorry for ranting but man 'ol man
> 
> I'm breathing know I'll be OK
> 
> Upnover, has a point though, there are certain things that are out of my control. If she wants to feed them chips and ice cream for dinner, outa my control. If she wants to take them to posOMs house and he has no criminal record, outa my control.
> 
> I need to focus on what i have control over, this is a wicked game of chess.


----------



## the guy

UpnOver said:


> Not really.


Wishful thinking on my part, that the courts can't make good parents.


----------



## HiRoad

the guy said:


> @h4f, I get it, I got two my self, but back in the day when my oldlady was out screwing around she missed alot when they were pre teens
> 
> In this case the kids are just so damb young and it just realy gets me.
> 
> Having been there I just get worked up and IMHO it time for this crap to stop and enough of this informal schedule, and all this and that...its not about bed time, it about the whole damb sitch and OP's STBXW parenting sucks .......
> 
> Geeze 1.5 and 3 years old.....
> 
> HiR let me buy you a drink next time your in SD


Guy, i admire your passion and at times I feel the same way.

But i seroiously had to stop thinking like that, it was driving me crazy.

Best i can do i document the facts and present it in a unbias manner. 

Dont get me wrong, stbxw is f!$%ing out of her mind.

But i am certain she will crash, she is currently taking cash advances to support her business, matter of time!

As far as the drink, i would love it, but when all this went down back in 9/18 i stopped all drinking to get me head clear. Lost 32lbs and got back into shape. I new i had to be mentally and physically prepared for what was to come.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> As far as the drink, i would love it, but when all this went down back in 9/18 i stopped all drinking to get me head clear. Lost 32lbs and got back into shape. I new i had to be mentally and physically prepared for what was to come.


Good move HiRoad! 

I did the same. Shortly after ILYBNILWY speech I stopped. She continued with a bottle of wine or two a night. After she noticed I stopped she kept bringing my favorite beer home. I didn't touch it but it didn't stop her. 

Gave her all the wine glasses, shots, bottle opener, etc when she moved. It really did help getting through the D papers with a clear head. Who knows what would've happened if I'd left it up to her.

But now that it's all notarized and just playing the waiting game I'm rewarding myself a bit when I go out on Sat nights.


----------



## HiRoad

That is awesome Z!! 

You really pulled through the all this with your head held high.

You are prepared to go out there and face the world, now smarted, educated, and able to see throught the BS.

You D6 has got the better of the parents taking care of her, your a good man and great example.

Crazy, you should be thanking your WS for putting you to school at her expense!


----------



## HiRoad

Ok, stbxw had the kids T w th and i picked them up today (fr) from daycare which we canceled.

Fortunalely daycare left contract open, and stbxw is able to use her if she needs to. So whatever i picked them up there.

Now, minute i put kids in the car my 3yr old begins to tell me what he did with stbxw.

First he mentions "grandpa", im like who? There is no grandpa on stbxw's side. he says it "grandpa XXX" im like ok, i get it is the MILs new BF, maybe been dating 2mnts

Then he tells me he has been to stbxw's posOM house. Then he tells, me he slept there in the "big bed up stairs". Then he tells me that his name is XXXX, and he has named posOMs dogs names, i guessing. 

I know it is hard to decifer what a 3yr old tells me.

But how the h3ll do i handle this? Do i mention it to stbxw, do i do nothing? 

I am going to docuement it.


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## lee101981

With a deep breath! I would document it and think on it for the night and see how u really feel in the morning, along with the responses from here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

I am actually not mad, i feel for the kids, and to be honest she probably is not putting them in harms way.

But it is incredibly irresponsible to do, and inaapropriate.

I am leaning towards documenting it and bring in it up in family court. 

It is def going to help my case to get primary custodian ship, and will scare the crap out of her when i tell that i am planning on doing so.


----------



## familyfirst09

I've been doing a lot of research this week around custody but H has told me he wants D 50 50, wtf?!?!
So some advice for you HiR - its great to document everything she is doing wrong but you must also document what YOU are doing right. I know we don't even live in the same country but I have to assume some of these things would cross borders. In our court system it appears to be more about what you do for the child and their well being and best interest and not what the other parent does wrong. As well, the courts do not like one parent to be bashing the other. The parent must be showing an effort of allowing and helping the other parent maintain and have a relationship with the child. 
Have you done any research in your area? Look up any case law?

And are you sure your 3 year old just "told" you all this information or did you ask him? Please be careful as that could be seen as manipulation. I do not ask D a single thing when she sees H or when she talks to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

My stbxw is making soo many bad decisions, it is unbelievable.


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## lee101981

I think what would upset me the most is she is thinking about herself instead of what is best for the child. That is not a real mother!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

FF09, no he said that "daddy picks me up from school" and "grandpa XXX lets him drive in his truck"

Then he told me that posOM dog is mean and tried to bite him, i am like who, then he said the dogs name, and he said it is XXXX dog. 

On top of that my stbxw, told me she was moving, and i know that she was suppose to move to another house with her mom.

But now, i hope she is not so stupid to move in with posOM, but i would not be supprised. 

Now, I told oldest he looks tired and he needs a nap, he said he sleept at posOM house upstairs in the big bed. 

Whatever, i stopped letting this stuff bother me. If this is what stbxw wants, fine.


----------



## familyfirst09

If she is introducing your children to POSOM after only 2 months, that is awful. Most child therapists recommend a year. Have you discussed this with her?
Also, if you are dating already, and custody is your concern now, be discrete.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

ff09 - i am dating but, the girl i am talking to has two kids of her own 3 & 6 and she would not even do this. Difference is i am not making it open and I am not taking the kids around her at all.

We are just talking on the internet and phone. 

I have not disussed with her, what doe sit matter she will still do what she wants, she is selfish.


----------



## familyfirst09

She can use it against you in court if you start seeing this woman. I am not ready whatsoever to start dating, I know this myself. But my lawyer also told me to "stay home". This is the time to be supporting your children and putting them first. Don't stoop to her level by bringing another person into the mix. "Be strategic".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

Yes she is right. 

The thing is my stbxw is making WELL known that she is dating, where as I am not. 

Stradegy is key.


----------



## Chuck71

Hi-Date while kids are not there. But from your ex's actions, that's not often. Do not mention any female around kids. In other words, do the opposite of your psycho ex.


----------



## HiRoad

Chuck - i am not going to stop anything to accomadate her. I plan on being the responsible one here. 

She is def. deep into a fog, and it has not been 4mnths since she dropped the bomb.

She is moving 900mph right now.


----------



## HiRoad

lee101981 said:


> With a deep breath! I would document it and think on it for the night and see how u really feel in the morning, along with the responses from here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thought about it over night, still unsure how i am going to handle this.

Still may need more time to asess, doing nothing right now may be my best offense.

In addition, my stbxw is going to NY to work, supposively, but she will not be returning until Wed am. 

This gives me time to think a little, to be honest though i have not been thinking about it at all, i think i have found *indifference*


----------



## lee101981

Indifference can be a good thing!

It is all in how u look t things!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

i really just dont care, in a sense that if thats what she wants to do , fine.

I cant stop her, its not like she is leaving in the car while she is at the mall on a 100 degree day.

Is she making really bad choices, h3ll yea, do i agree with them, h3ll no.

Do i have the engergy to fight/mention her about it, not really.

Will I try my best to give the kids what she is not, yup

Will i present the facts in family court and mention everything i documented, absolutley.


----------



## zillard

I was chatting up a female friend online last night who has a DD with an absent father. She said something that is taking many of us here a while to realize:

You can't force someone to be a parent. 

So true. Much less a good one.

You are doing great HiRoad! Your attitude and outlook has progressed significantly. 

While I think you are definitely moving toward indifference, be mindful that you may not quite be there yet. I'm in the same boat. With true indifference we wouldn't be so unsure of how to react to things at first.


----------



## HiRoad

To be honest i am still human Z, and i still have those feeling creep up from time to time.

But now i am able to control them 

Lead with your brain instead of your heart, will give you self-respect and creat self-love.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> To be honest i am still human Z, and i still have those feeling creep up from time to time.
> 
> But now i am able to control them
> 
> Lead with your brain instead of your heart, will give you self-respect and creat self-love.


This is great. You have many reasons to proud of yourself and how you are handling the situation you have been dealt. 

Got a crappy hand? Put on your poker face and take the pot!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Do you have the mean/info to do any kind of back round check on these new poeple that are coming into your kids life while you have this messed up perception that you ex oldlady won't put her kids in harms way?

Have you called animal control with regards the the protential danger the OM dog is to you kid?

Have you shown a lawyer your journal on your kids mothers behavior/actions?

Sorry my man but you are now starting to get some very concerning feed back from your 3 year old. It might be time to take your plan and pick it up a notch.

I warned you about this pages ago about strangers watching your kids. It is getting dangerous IMHO and its time to take the next step in protecting your kids.


----------



## the guy

You do know you can go on line and find were all the sexual preditors live in your nieghbor hood, or more inportantly were POSOM's nieghborhood.


----------



## the guy

I'm try my best to remain calm this time...how am I doing ?????


----------



## familyfirst09

Lol, I think you are doing great 
This crap is sooooo hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

It sure is hard, and I think HiR is at a point were a new tactic/approach is in order....I'm thinking its time to step up the pase and get some sound legal advise and take action.

Not saying a rush or haisty action, but action that has solid legal action......intence planing with a lawyer, if you will...its time to know exactly what options one has and the protential recourse he has when something really bad happens.


I'm mean "almost dog bite" and "in big bed with someone HiR doesn't even know"....its getting very very concerning, a lawyer must be contacted !!!!!!!!

At the very least know your options and fine tune the plan with a lawyer in your pocket.


----------



## the guy

This women is running out of money, I think she is getting more and more desperate as the weeks click by...and the babies are the ones that will witness this desperation... in a very bad way.


----------



## HiRoad

Guy - i know you always are looking out for the best interests of the kiddos, i appreciate that!

I have a binder full of documentation, etc.

While i am not a PI, I do not know where posOM lives nor who new "grandpa" is (lol its soo ridiculous, like there egaged or M), I will talk to my lawyer about what is going on.

Stradegy is most important here, do what is best for me and the kids.

The delema is that unless i can prove everything you stated, i am just causing myself more pain and grief. 

I do not want to do any uneccesary worrying or stressing, this is my new reality.

This may be the new norm, of men coming in and out of stbxw's life and in-laws family. 

I have to focus what i have control over.


----------



## the guy

Thank god you got a lawyer brother. You are a smart man! It might be time to give him a call and check in with the new devolopments.

I'm curios about any kind of time line you and your lawyer have with regards to dropping the hammer on your STBXW?

Is there a certain action you and your lawyer are waiting for from your STBXW?

What and when will your wife screw up enough to solidify the best out come in the divorce/custody? 

Were is your thought process with regard to taking the next step in this thing?

Granted she is on a good path right now, but were is rock bottom for her? She seems resourceful enough to stay on her current course for sometime...maybe years.


----------



## the guy

We can all see her digging a deeper hole for her self but man it sure is a damb deep hole.


----------



## HiRoad

the guy said:


> Thank god you got a lawyer brother. You are a smart man! It might be time to give him a call and check in with the new devolopments.
> 
> I'm curios about any kind of time line you and your lawyer have with regards to dropping the hammer on your STBXW?
> 
> Is there a certain action you and your lawyer are waiting for from your STBXW?
> 
> What and when will your wife screw up enough to solidify the best out come in the divorce/custody?
> 
> Were is your thought process with regard to taking the next step in this thing?
> 
> Granted she is on a good path right now, but were is rock bottom for her? She seems resourceful enough to stay on her current course for sometime...maybe years.


Unfortunatley, it is a wait and see game.

Here in Ca. we are very much a 50/50 state, and unless she is doing drugs (even then thats not enuff), starving or abusing the kids not much i can do.

The courts tend to side with mom, especially since they are soo little.

If this is her new lifestyle as long as it does not put the kids in danger, its ok by the courts.

The more i fight in court here the worse i look. 

So it is a wait, document, and see game.


----------



## HiRoad

the guy said:


> We can all see her digging a deeper hole for her self but man it sure is a damb deep hole.


This is so true! Dont see at this point how you even show face around town.

Would not want to be in her shoes.


----------



## the guy

HiRoad said:


> This is so true! Dont see at this point how you even show face around town.
> 
> Would not want to be in her shoes.


From the sound of it, she is doing her best not too!


----------



## HiRoad

*NEW DEVELOPMENTS*

On my way home friday to p/u the kids i was thinking about a text stbxw sent me:

"Do you still want the coffee table, or do you wnat to sell it"

Then the light bulb went off! She probably went to storage and moved all "her" stuff out. So called the storage and verified that YES she indeed was there 3 days. 

So i text stbxw, "did you go to storage and get stuff out of there"
stbxw sent long messgae back, basically saying that she moved all the stuff we agreed upon through text and email (mostly the big stuff) into MILs new house 

So i run to storage to take a look and, sure enuff all the big stuff is gone along with whole bunch of boxed items that she helped herself too. 

After a onslaught of texted, i basically told her that it was unacceptable not to communicate to me what she was doing, and i am going to where ever everything is to ensure i am ok with what she has 

Also, I am sure posOM helped her move stuff too! She even said that she is scared of me and it is too hard to see me b/x "it still hurts".


----------



## HiRoad

On a lighter note.

I have been talking to this woman i met online on a dating site, and she is wonderful, beacutiful, and actually normal. Also we have alot in common (unlike my stbxw and I). She is successful, has 2 kids around the same age as mine.

We are going to go on a date this week 

Thanks to TAM and my experience with my D, I know what red flags to look for in a W. Going to take it real slow, she is thinking the same as she is D too. 

I am going into this expecting nothing. If something comes out of it, great, if not great.

Life is good  Just got to get the D finalized and move on!


----------



## GutPunch

What site is it?


----------



## familyfirst09

How are you doing HiRoad??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

*UPDATE*

So, it was agreed that I would have kiddos until Tues eve. STBXW could not tell me when she would be back from NY. So I planned on keeping kiddos until wed pm. Of course i had to make last minute arrangement for daycare. STBXW texts me at 1145pm at night that she is home on tues night late. I dont get it until early wed am, on my way to work. Stbxw wants to p/u kiddos right away, i tell her no, i alrady made daycare arrangements and that i will get them to her when i get off, 4pm. I cannot keep shuffling everthing around at her convience. This sends stbxw in to a new level of pi$$ed off. She does not like to NOT have control. 

After many many texts, she threatens to call the police b/c she wants her kids NOW. I calmy say (text) that "i understand that you have been gone and miss the children. I can get them to you at 4pm today"

And as far as the police statement, i told her "good luck", (as i have called the police already and confirmed, unless there in danger or there is a divorce decree there is nothing they can do)

Long story short, stbxw goes to the court house and files a emrg. vistation motion, now i have court tomorrow am. 

I call my lawyer, she giggles and tell me to rest easy tonight that I have nothing to worry about. My stbxw is totally falling victim to her own feelings.

She has no idea of the stock pile of information and documentation that i have compile in the last 4months.

I will cutting the snakes head off, if need be tomorrow.

The bad part is that this may get expensive, but if it is for my kids it will be well worth the investment to protect thier quality of life.


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## familyfirst09

Just keep in mind that a judge, the one who mkaes the decision, not your lawyer, will look at your willingness and openess in maintaining the relationship between her and your children. I know you can't make her a mother, but if you interfere it will look very badly on you. 
If the kids were at daycare, why couldn't she just go pick them up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Show judge your docus on who has kept children when. Then the judge will giggle.


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## familyfirst09

Definitely agree Chuck. Just don't go in there bashing her, it won't work. Talk about the good things you've done and the care you have taken. 

And on another note: did you go on your date????? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Just keep in mind that a judge, the one who mkaes the decision, not your lawyer, will look at your willingness and openess in maintaining the relationship between her and your children. I know you can't make her a mother, but if you interfere it will look very badly on you.
> If the kids were at daycare, why couldn't she just go pick them up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because stbxw would not tell me when she would be coming home, i had to have mother call in sick to her work to take care of the kiddos.

Yes she could have picked them up if i was able to get them in my daycare, however, this would have required adequate notice to the daycare for staffing. 

stbxw needs to understand that i cannot keep making sacrafices for her schedule. If she is out of town, simple allow herself a day before and after travel, this gives her time for incedentals. And so that i can make adequate arrangements, ahead of time.


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## familyfirst09

Ahhhh, I see. Someone should smack that woman. I travel (used to) for work and I'd always know when I was coming and going. 
Come out on top, you're kids deserve it. Just don't get nasty, it'll only put you in a bad light and let's face it, you're the father so that's already one nail in your coffin (no offense meant but the courts always side with the mother). Show them the kids are your number one priority, not hers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Definitely agree Chuck. Just don't go in there bashing her, it won't work. Talk about the good things you've done and the care you have taken.
> 
> And on another note: did you go on your date?????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


100% agree, matter of fact, i would be more than happy to have 50/50 if she wants to be a mom. I will not allow her to have 50/50 so she can go travel/party and leave the kids with family.

Date went really well, she is a great person, fun to be around and loves her kids to death. she is successful, bright, and independent. 

Def will be going out again! nothing serious, just enjoying our time together and having fun!


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## familyfirst09

Don't use "allow" and don't say "my children". Those are tw big no-nos (I've been doing my research lol). And once the decision is made, she can do what she wants on her time. So you need to decide up front what you want and stick with it. 

And horray about your date!!! Did you post a pic yet in the social spot???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

FF09- that is why i have a lawyer, to help me through this process  To completely honest with myself, i want her to be a wonderful mom! I want her to put the children first. I am working on reaching a point of indiffernce. I actually would like for us to talk about what is best for the kids at least. I really do not care what she does, if it has nothing to do with the well being of the children.

My plan for court: present the facts objectivley, fairly, and with a smile on my face. It will be all about what is BEST for the kiddos!

I havent posted a pic yet, I will when the dust settles. She may find out where i am hiding


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## familyfirst09

I'm proud of you  not that that really means anything coming from a complete stranger but you give me hope of where I will be soon enough. I think it'll take me a while to reach indifference without faking it or lying about it but I'm letting him go, its the best thing to do for me and D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> I'm proud of you  not that that really means anything coming from a complete stranger but you give me hope of where I will be soon enough. I think it'll take me a while to reach indifference without faking it or lying about it but I'm letting him go, its the best thing to do for me and D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you! All of us BS's learn a valuable lesson from this expiernce. You can either grow or crumble. I made a choice to grow, learn from my mistakes, accept them, become a better version of me, and let go of excess baggage.

Yes, let him go! It was the best decision that i made! Truely and honestly let them go! You will find your peace.


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## familyfirst09

My choice is to grow as well. Damn that next lady for you and guy for me are gonna be some lucky buggers!! Lol. 

I still haven't been able to find that link on the Glenn person you were saying about for self confidence/esteem. Can you send the link?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Well played hiroad. I'm going through a rough patch right now, but making progress none the less. I hope the best for you and your little family. Good luck tomorrow.


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## Stella Moon

...and do keep us posted of course


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## the guy

DUDE!!!!!!!!
I am doing my best to stay calm! 
If I start to mis spell every other word then delete my reply......


I can't, I cant, I just have to say thank God you got a lwayer, cuz this sh1t is and has been out of hand since the last time I went off on you.

Cake eating POS STBXW who wants her needs met no matter who it effects and then wants more.

DUDE! 
[calmly] were is the court ordered agreement with regards to custody, scheduled visitation and ...parenting classes?

Your STBXW needs parenting class!!!!

Sorry bro laike you said before I do have a passion for this BS...having been there before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You Know!!!!


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## HiRoad

Certainly will keep all you TAMers posted on what happens tomorrow, i am sure it will be full of dramtic performances.

i am actually excited to get some progress on moving foward with this and getting something set in stone!

@FF09 - my SIL said the same thing just a day ago! Her words "whoever you decide to end up with is going to be the luckiest girl on earth, you have so much to offer!" Life gives you lemons! Youtube Glenn Harold.

@hope - hang in there, it really does get better. The 180, really works if you dedicate yourself. One of the hardest things i have done and going though so far in my life. Remember who you are at your core. Thank you for the support!

Dont worry about me folks, I have been preparing for this for a while. I feel confident that I have done nothing wrong, and everything right. My lawyer will be with me and she is VERY good to say the least.


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## HiRoad

@guy - Hey! LOL! Love the passion man! Yup, stbxw def. has some parenting issues. however, know days there really is not too much that bothers me like before. I know i am doing the best for my kids! I have a great lawyer (female too & my age  ) ! Yes getting a lawyer was for the best. I used to get so mad and upset b/c of what stbxw was doing. Know as longs as the kiddos are safe, i am ok with it, what other choice do i have. Life is really good!


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## the guy

You have it under control, I just hate what the kids are dealing with when mommy time: is so dissapointing and random. Its like " I wonder when I'll see my mom next"..." geeze will I get woken up in the middle of the night" ....I'm going to see my mom, I wonder who is going to watch me instead".............


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## HiRoad

the guy said:


> You have it under control, I just hate what the kids are dealing with when mommy time: is so dissapointing and random. Its like " I wonder when I'll see my mom next"..." geeze will I get woken up in the middle of the night" ....I'm going to see my mom, I wonder who is going to watch me instead".............


Yup, this is the challenging part for me too.

I get "I want my mommy" when they cry or get hurt

My youngest is extremely clingy, i have a new role of compasionate and emotional stability for the kids. 

I have filled the mommy shoes quiet well. Love the kids to death.

I could not and would not be able to do what stbxw has.

Fortunately, i have a great support system, lots of first cousins their age, and lots of plans!

These guys will have a great life full of family from my side, cant say that about stbxw's side!


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## the guy

Some one said early in the thread " the courts can't make good parents" but I have a feeling HiR will make up for STBXW sh1tty parenting.


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## the guy

At 1.5 years old your damb right about being clingy.

I want you to do what ever you and your lawyer can to force your STBXW to be a parent....hell even at 3 [your oldest] is going to need every bit of family you can muster up.

In this case " it takes a village to raise a child" is so important...

YOu know what I mean?


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## lee101981

I wonder how these people can go days at a time without seeing there kids. It is hard for me to go the weekend... H has been there every day and all the sudden just a few times a week......


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## the guy

And I'm not talking about enabler's for your STBXW, Im talking about poeple that really care and focus on these kids and demand your wife to step back up to the plate!


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## the guy

lee101981 said:


> I wonder how these people can go days at a time without seeing there kids. It is hard for me to go the weekend... H has been there every day and all the sudden just a few times a week......


You get focused on bull crap and before you know it your kids are preteens and your old lady is off screwing other guys.

What I mean is I wasn't the best dad when my kids werere OP's ages {infants}, I was off working and focused on provideing. So going out of town to make a liveing was I thought was best for my family.

In this case I think STBXW is out of focus. If she only knew what I know now...she will phucking change her tune.

They grow up quick, they need there mom.

But they do have one hell of a dad !

Way to go HiR!


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## the guy

I'm starting to misspell, you better cut me off .....I have been down this road and it is nuts!!!!!!!!!!


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## GutPunch

Good luck today, HI


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## familyfirst09

I know lee!! I don't get that either. Even as unemotional and distant my H has always been to our daughter (sorry I mean my daughter lol), how he can go from "seeing" her every day to barely seeing her at all is beyond my comprehension.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

I didn't understand my wife either especially being a mother. I thought her being away from the kids would kill her. Sigh...


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## familyfirst09

I'm a mom and I can't imagine not seeing or talking to my D every day, and I haven't in almost 5 years. I think the same way about my H tho but its only because I want to BELIEVE he wants to spend time with her...but its that making him out to be something he never has been. 
What was your wife like with the kids before this all started?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard

Same thing here. Mine breastfed for 2 yrs, cloth diapered, etc. Was always such a focused and devoted mother. Until this. Now 1 night/wk, phone calls, and gives me right to relocate with dd. That is the most baffling part of this... Wtf
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09

Well my H did nothing. And still does nothing. I just think he WILl do something if he comes back. I am so naïve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch

Well IDK I think she was a good mother especially when they were born. Breast fed, worked, pumped at work etc. However, when the drugs came along, she began to dislike the responsibilities associated with being a mother. Taking care of the kids became a mundane and miserable chore. I told her once that I know you love your kids you just don't love being a mother. She got mad at me for that statement, btw


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> What was your wife like with the kids before this all started?


She was always ALL about the kids and nothing else matter to her.

Thats the weird part, she flipped!

Total WAW to a T!


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## familyfirst09

"I know you love your kids you just don't love being a mother". That rings so true for me - in regard to my H....

Did you go to court yet HiR??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Went to court today, this is what transpired.

I got there early, saw stbxw and MIL sitting far away from me. Of course did not acknowledge me. 

My Lawyer (who happens to be around my age and hot ) showed up and intro herself to stbxw, totally caught her off guard! Look on stbxw's face = priceless! 

Since we did not know why we were here my lawyer asked stbxw for the copies of the paperwork to which stbxw told mey lawyer "no!" Lawyer told stbxw that she would be telling the court what she said to the judge, stbxw said "fine"

So basically, she was made a fool of!! Lawyer let her have it! Stbxw (who represented herself, b/c she has no $$$, spends all on partying) had a look of fear and watery eyes the whole dang time!!

What happened was stbxw got pi$$ed that I would not give her kids when she wanted them on the last exchange (she was in NY), and went to court and filed an emergncy motion for visitation, and tried to blame me for everything.

I sat there did not say a word i was happy and cheerful, my hot lawyer took care of the rest. The court denied my stbxw's motion and denied her imediate child support until she completed her paper work for the D. 

stbxw was not happy, even went as far as to argue with my lawyer during recess. At recess we ironed out a 6 week temp parenting plan exctly the way i wanted it. Judge signed it until we can get an agreement! :smthumbup: 

If stbxw cannot stick to it, too bad! Kids go to me, if she leaves more than 16hrs at a time. 

Needless to say, it was a happy day for HiRoad!


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## familyfirst09

Holy crap!!!! Good for you! Yay!!!!!
What is the temporary parenting plan? Will she be able to stick to it you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## K.C.

Great stuff HiRoad.


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## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Holy crap!!!! Good for you! Yay!!!!!
> What is the temporary parenting plan? Will she be able to stick to it you think?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It covers a parenting schedule, dates, times, and if a parent is out of town (stbxw) the other gets first rights.

She probably will not be able to stiick to it, I forsee the police and my lawyer getting involved.

Needless to say , to celebrate, I am taking the girl i met online out for another date to dinner and a movie tonite!!


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## lee101981

Have fun!!!!!

Great day in court!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard

Wocka wocka!

Awesome day, HiRoad. She'll think twice before f'n with you again. 

... but not for very long.  lol


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## Chuck71

Watch your back window Hi.......you may have a guest wanting to..................talk.


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## familyfirst09

Have fun, just not too much 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

went to the drive-in movies with that girl i met online, had alot of fun 

Its nice to have good company, attention, and attraction again. 

Things are on the Up and Up.

Just picked up the kids with my brothers wife, and stbxw was suprised to see her.

stbxw was overly nice to her.

Like having no drama, and the feeling of control over my life.


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## lee101981

Never been to a drive in
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

UpnOver said:


> Glad to hear you had a good time.
> 
> Take things slow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup def. Not looking for anything serious.

Just some one to enjoy my time with and have fun with 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

drive-ins are 'the bomb'...........grew up around one and they're great for making out.....sure beats the back row in a theatre


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## HiRoad

O yea!! Chuck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Thank God you finally have a "formal" parenting schedule. What we can only hope for is the STBXW sticks to it and the babies can find some consistant mommie time and your STBXW understands the seriousness to this court order...her parental rights depend on it!

What makes you think your lawyer and cops will be in the near future? Does STBXW really think the courts will take her future actions so lightly? She just got a taste of how the "new" court system is not so pro mother! Is STBXW really that dumb to think that this will get better if she continues? Someone has to be a voice a reason for her and explain the reality that she has to change her ways with regards to how she is parenting.

Wishful thinking on my part I guess, but if I just got sh1t on in court like STBXW, I would be changing my tune with regards to how these days the court can be really pro father and very concerned about how fragile my parental rights really are *now*.


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## HiRoad

Guy-i could not feel more comfortable and in total control right know with everything. 

Getting a lawyer was the best move i made so far.

Time will tell how stbxw does. If the fog lifts and she at least becomes half a mom .

I am moving foward!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

HiRoad said:


> Getting a lawyer was the best move i made so far.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Esspecaially a hot one, that had a big impact, thats why only fools represent them selves.

STBXW arguement with lawyer played right into your lawyers hands. It became emotional instead of rational reason in resolving an issue for both parties satisfaction.

What you got was everything you wanted and your STBXW got nothing to go her way cuz of her poor choice in how she spent her money in the past and not preparing for the future....the future battle that is coming her way.


Your case is a perfect examble of being two steps ahead, and making a plan and working the plan.

Well played sir, well played!


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## HiRoad

Well it did not take long for stbxw to break the court ordered temp partenting plan.

Dropped the kiddos of with her this tues am, and she asked if i could take them 1 day early, me p/u thurs (today) at 4pm instead of court ordered Fri at 630pm!!

What a piece of work my stbxw is!

On the other hand, have been on more than a few dates with new W. She is starting to grow on me a little bit. Taking it real slow, no rush. We have alot in common and she is great! Invited her to a kiddo play date with some friends and all the kids hers and mine and others play great!! So much fun.

Read a book on rebuilding after your relationship ends, very insightful.
Gave good pointers.

Things are really on the up and up! 

Looking back now, I was really miserable in my M, stbxw was really providing alot of stress in our M.


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## familyfirst09

You're introducing the kids already?!?! Sorry...I don't mean to sound "shocked". I hope you take that part slow as well....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Fortunately his kids are under 2. I have introduced DS to my friends. You can't exactly be a closed door.


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## familyfirst09

Yes you're right...I'm a little over sensitive to the issue I think, just seems so soon. But if only introducing as "friends" then that's okay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

familyfirst09 said:


> Yes you're right...I'm a little over sensitive to the issue I think, just seems so soon. But if only introducing as "friends" then that's okay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't disagree. 

However, when I went to see Christmas tree lights. I didn't ask the two people I just met a previous time to go gaga for my DS. (Up to that point they didn't even know I had a kid.) 

But they did anyway. One girl was all over him. (What a lady's man.) I guess my point is, you have to go out into the sunshine. With your kids. You don't have to "fall in love" or show "strong emotions" with every single woman/man that comes around.

Being a recluse is also sending the wrong message to your kid.


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## HiRoad

Absolutley agree with all of you!

I am not living in a cave, i take my kids everywhere with me. This is not the only time i have done a "play date" either with friends or new people i meet. 

I want my kids to experience the joy of meeting new wonderful people. 

They are loving every minute of it! We have been invited to so many B-day parties, get togethers, and play times.

As far as the new W, we talked about it and made sure it was a healthy envirement and it was all about the kiddos. 

We set boundries so that not to let the kiddos in on too much.


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## K.C.

When you are a good parent that actually gives a crap about your kids you become a package deal I guess. Sounds like you gave plenty of thought to how to go about it. Really pleased to see you doing so well HiRoad.

I am still at the denial/cling to hope stage I guess but it is inspiring to see someone getting it together.


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## HiRoad

KC,

I still have moments, however very few and far between.

I still go to IC, although not as often as recommended by IC, i have made huge strides.

I still read, talk, and TAM, although not as often.

Getting past the hurt was one of the hardest things I have done to date.

I and my IC are fully aware there were some walls that i have built-up, that need to be addressed.

It is and will continue to be a work in progress.

Best thing I ever did, 180, let em go, and NC for *ME*!


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Well it did not take long for stbxw to break the court ordered temp partenting plan.
> 
> Dropped the kiddos of with her this tues am, and she asked if i could take them 1 day early, me p/u thurs (today) at 4pm instead of court ordered Fri at 630pm!!
> 
> What a piece of work my stbxw is!
> 
> On the other hand, have been on more than a few dates with new W. She is starting to grow on me a little bit. Taking it real slow, no rush. We have alot in common and she is great! Invited her to a kiddo play date with some friends and all the kids hers and mine and others play great!! So much fun.
> 
> Read a book on rebuilding after your relationship ends, very insightful.
> Gave good pointers.
> 
> Things are really on the up and up!
> 
> Looking back now, I was really miserable in my M, stbxw was really providing alot of stress in our M.


At least she broke the plan in your favor - more time with kiddos. Better than other way around.

"Rebuilding" is a great book. I've found it very helpful. I am going through it slowwwly though; step by step with my IC. I want to make sure and fully address the hangups I have. Some parts of that book are MUCH harder than others. 

Glad to hear your having a good time with the new woman. I just want to caution you to take it slow. You don't want a bad rebound. Like the book says, many people don't enter divorce counseling until after their rebound relationship ends.


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## HiRoad

zillard said:


> At least she broke the plan in your favor - more time with kiddos. Better than other way around.
> 
> "Rebuilding" is a great book. I've found it very helpful. I am going through it slowwwly though; step by step with my IC. I want to make sure and fully address the hangups I have. Some parts of that book are MUCH harder than others.
> 
> Glad to hear your having a good time with the new woman. I just want to caution you to take it slow. You don't want a bad rebound. Like the book says, many people don't enter divorce counseling until after their rebound relationship ends.


That is exactly how i was thinking, at least it is on her that she broke the plan, it will be bunsiness as usual for me, DOCUMENT.

Sounds like you are being very careful Z, kudos for you. I too went over these things with my IC. She and I both agreed for me to take things slow. I am and will continue to address and assess my hangups. No one is perfect, but i would rather be prepared


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## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: What to do w/ walk away wife*



HiRoad said:


> No one is perfect, but i would rather be prepared


Same here!!! what was the name of that book again?? "rebuilding"?

my next LTR partner will definitely need to have a similar mindset of "being prepared"....if he reads self help books to make himself a better man, that would be impressive


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## familyfirst09

I'd like to have a look at that book myself. I've very impressed HiR, good that you and your new friend are on the same page about the kiddos. Excellent!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard

vi_bride04 said:


> what was the name of that book again?? "rebuilding"?


Rebuilding
After Your Relationship Ends
Dr. Bruce Fisher
3rd Edition


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## HiRoad

Thanks Z! Excellent book by the way.

FF-thanx.i have been keeping up with you and see you are doing well with D! Stay strong and work on you!

I talked to my bros wife tonight.. and her and i disagreed on something that i would like to share with all of you. 

She said that i should not settle for the first women friend i meet. She seems to think that i should def go out and experience more women. I thought that it doesnt matter if its the 1st or 31st.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard

HiRoad said:


> She said that i should not settle for the first women friend i meet. She seems to think that i should def go out and experience more women. I thought that it doesnt matter if its the 1st or 31st.


I don't know, HiRoad. I'm torn on this. 

I definitely see your point. If it happens it happens... do numbers even matter? If you connect you connect. 

However, I see her point too. Many of us after D are completely reevaluating what love really is and learning for the first time what a real healthy loving relationship looks like. It is very easy to fall for the first one out of the gate as we've been rejected and this new attention is like a warm fireplace after a blizzard. 

I don't think numbers matter as much as time. Time to really figure out what it is we are looking for so we can see through the new warmth and clearly separate what we've learned from our new emotions and attraction.


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## zillard

In other words. Take it slow.......

Settling with her shouldn't be an option yet. A distant possibility, sure, but don't even worry about that yet. In my opinion.


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## vi_bride04

zillard said:


> Rebuilding
> After Your Relationship Ends
> Dr. Bruce Fisher
> 3rd Edition


Thanks. I ordered it last night. I will get it on Monday :smthumbup:


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## familyfirst09

I have to agree with Zillard and your SIL. Do you really think you are ready to jump into a new relationship? How long has your new friend be single? You may not be on the same page.
If it happens, it happens, but is she just replacing what youre missing - companionship, affection and attention?

Ive said this quote on here before, not sure where tho so I will share it again:

"Dont jump into the water while you are still bleeding, the sharks will come"


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## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> "Dont jump into the water while you are still bleeding, the sharks will come"


Love it - and so true. 

After word spread that I was moving back to my hometown, sans wife, I was contacted by two of my exGFs and an old friend's exW in a week. 

The first exGF is freshly out of a relationship and is going on about how sad and empty she is after her breakup. No, I don't want an old flame that dumped me and is now looking for someone safe to fill the void. 

The second exGF is married and during the phone call started talking about her and her husband having some trouble. No, I will not be the posOM in her EA.

The friends exW, she's a different story. She has been talking about how relationships are wonderful but its sad when people need them to feel whole as happiness comes from within. She's been single for some time and is happy with just her and her daughter. Volunteering a lot. Works at a yoga studio. She's looking forward to having a hiking partner when I return and someone mellow to spend time with as she's cut off toxic friends in the area that drink too much. 

But see, 2 out of 3 are definitely sharks. I'm lucky as I still haven't moved near them. It probably would be harder to really see that if I bumped into these attractive women in person. Also if I did not know them previously.


----------



## Chuck71

I would see it as hard to immerse yourself in a serious relationship when about every night barbs are being thrown around leading up to the D with the ex. That shouts problems.

From inside.....if you are honest with yourself....you will know. And love is so funny....it grabs you when you least expect it.


----------



## hope4family

While there is certainly nothing wrong with a relationship. I liked Tunera's post from "Z" thread. 

Before doing anything more with this women. Right down a list of everything you want in a female friend. Then (adding to tunera's post) a female relationship, then a female life partner. 

Understand that you are now a ship setting sail in a new direction. You are recovering quickly, but you are still adjusting to life anew and falling back into old habits would still be too easy at this point.


----------



## Chuck71

Very much agree. Old habits are just sitting at the bank in a silk nightgown begging you to pick them up.


----------



## hope4family

Ok HiRoad, where did you go? Hope you are alright.


----------



## GutPunch

HaHa He's ignored all our advice and done got himself a girlfriend. Too busy for us losers. Way to go Hi.


----------



## HiRoad

I am still here lingering in the shadows. 

Matter of fact i have a appointment at court today for meidation orienntation (it is required here) both stbxw and I will be there. 

This will be interesting, for her, not me 

I have altered my approach to stbxw. I am essentially going to make her an offer that she cannot refuse (thank you Godfather). Dont misunderstand me, i am making it the best deal for both of us. If she refuses then i am already on track to go to court to get what is "Fair".

We will see how she handles it.

As far as new women (is there an acronym for this NW??) the more i get to know her the more attractive she becomes. Crazy how this works. Still taking it real slow though. A few times i caught my self having serious feelings for her but I am purposely holding myself back. We really enjoy spending time with each other, and we did another play date with the kids and some other freiends it was really one of the best dates i have been on in a while! All the kids, especially hers and mine, got along great!


----------



## lee101981

HiRoad said:


> I am still here lingering in the shadows.
> 
> Matter of fact i have a appointment at court today for meidation orienntation (it is required here) both stbxw and I will be there.
> 
> This will be interesting, for her, not me
> 
> I have altered my approach to stbxw. I am essentially going to make her an offer that she cannot refuse (thank you Godfather). Dont misunderstand me, i am making it the best deal for both of us. If she refuses then i am already on track to go to court to get what is "Fair".
> 
> We will see how she handles it.
> 
> As far as new women (is there an acronym for this NW??) the more i get to know her the more attractive she becomes. Crazy how this works. Still taking it real slow though. A few times i caught my self having serious feelings for her but I am purposely holding myself back. We really enjoy spending time with each other, and we did another play date with the kids and some other freiends it was really one of the best dates i have been on in a while! All the kids, especially hers and mine, got along great!


I think it is great that it is great that you are taking things slow with this women... Good luck to you. You deserve to be happy...


----------



## Chuck71

how bout FB-future babe lol


----------



## HiRoad

Spent sat and sun with new babe, and we had a blast! There is a "but" here.

The more we get to know each other the more I am seeing some "red flags", the biggest is that she is still being pursued by an X that was abusive to her.

I talked to her about it and realized that she may still be dealing with this issue emotionally still.

I am begining to have feelings for her, so what do I do TAMers?

My feelings tell me to help her and that maybe she can get through this, my gut tells me to tell her to "sh!t or get off the pot" and if she cant make a descision then I will.

Why women go back to thier abusers is beyond me, but I get that feeling from her. 

Thank god I can now identify the signs of a bad potential relationship, and observe it from a distance to avoid any bad decisions on my part.


----------



## vi_bride04

Don't ignore your gut.......thats your best defense against not getting into a relationship that is bad for your inner self.


----------



## lee101981

Run!

She needs to work through her issues because you will soon take on her issues!!!

Be careful
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Well if she was a victim of abuse only she can help herself. If she is thinking of going back to him then well she probably was abused as a kid. I hope for the best with her and I'm dead wrong.


----------



## zillard

Trust me, if she is your project (ego boost) and you are her knight (save me!), things will get messy down the road. 

That was the big problem in my M.


----------



## HiRoad

Thanks all! 

I am proceeding but with caution, I just had a talk with her and told her to get it figuired out before you puruse anything with me.

She told me that she is not dating anyone else and that she has not responded to her abusive X. She has been her words "going dark". She said it is her feelings that she is dealing with, she was using me as a sounding board.

She seems to have a good head on her shoulders.

My plan is to watch, have fun, and observe from a safe distance.


----------



## HiRoad

The kicker of my weekend i forgot to mention.

While i was with the new babe, a cougar that I meet a while back (if you have been following my thread i mention it before) got back in touch with me.

She told me that she new who my stbxw posOM was and his story. She told me his name and that he was married before with 3 kids, had a kid with another GF, and just recently got her GF prego and left her for my stbxw!!! So her freind who is 4mnths prego with posOM baby is severly depressed and he is with my stbxw. 

Boy am i happy I am miles away from that drama!


----------



## familyfirst09

Are you the first "bf" for your new "gf"? Maybe a dual re-bound situation....think with the right head buddy 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> Are you the first "bf" for your new "gf"? Maybe a dual re-bound situation....think with the right head buddy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No she had several dates and two semi-serious relationships.

Me, went on two very platonic dates, got hit on by some hot cougars, and then did a dating website and met the new babe.


----------



## hope4family

Of all the flags you could have hit. This is a pretty big one. Watch from a distance.


----------



## Chuck71

Hi-Boy your ex sure can pick 'em now! LOL

Maybe she will be his next hit n run preggo victim

Poor parenting, preggo with runaway guy....makes it so much easier to smile and turn away


----------



## tom67

HiRoad said:


> The kicker of my weekend i forgot to mention.
> 
> While i was with the new babe, a cougar that I meet a while back (if you have been following my thread i mention it before) got back in touch with me.
> 
> She told me that she new who my stbxw posOM was and his story. She told me his name and that he was married before with 3 kids, had a kid with another GF, and just recently got her GF prego and left her for my stbxw!!! So her freind who is 4mnths prego with posOM baby is severly depressed and he is with my stbxw.
> 
> Boy am i happy I am miles away from that drama!


WOW


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> The kicker of my weekend i forgot to mention.
> 
> While i was with the new babe, a cougar that I meet a while back (if you have been following my thread i mention it before) got back in touch with me.
> 
> She told me that she new who my stbxw posOM was and his story. She told me his name and that he was married before with 3 kids, had a kid with another GF, and just recently got her GF prego and left her for my stbxw!!! So her freind who is 4mnths prego with posOM baby is severly depressed and he is with my stbxw.
> 
> Boy am i happy I am miles away from that drama!


Her future blows.


----------



## Chuck71

blows more than a dust storm in Kansas


----------



## HiRoad

I was telling my freind this and his exact words "A matter of time before she is preganant"

Had I known this a 4 months ago, would have saved me a lot of sleepless nights and emotiaonal heartache.


----------



## HiRoad

HiRoad said:


> Spent sat and sun with new babe, and we had a blast! There is a "but" here.
> 
> *The more we get to know each other the more I am seeing some "red flags", the biggest is that she is still being pursued by an X that was abusive to her.*
> 
> I talked to her about it and realized that she may still be dealing with this issue emotionally still.
> 
> I am begining to have feelings for her, so what do I do TAMers?
> 
> My feelings tell me to help her and that maybe she can get through this, my gut tells me to tell her to "sh!t or get off the pot" and if she cant make a descision then I will.
> 
> Why women go back to thier abusers is beyond me, but I get that feeling from her.
> 
> Thank god I can now identify the signs of a bad potential relationship, and observe it from a distance to avoid any bad decisions on my part.


Well your gut doesnt lie!

New babe just called to call it quits with me, to probably either:

1. deal with her feelings and get over the abuser or;
2. get back with the abuser.

I am glad she did it now than later when i was fully committed to this new babe.

Stings a little, but it is a part of life, glad i still have my feet firmly planted on the ground


----------



## HiRoad

Where are all the good women hiding? Here on TAM, i guess


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Where are all the good women hiding? Here on TAM, i guess


From what I've seen... not at the corner pub. 

I figure most are probably home with their kid(s), like us. But then the dating sites are filled with trash so how do you get to them? 

I guess we just have to take our kid(s) to the park more often?


----------



## tom67

HiRoad said:


> Where are all the good women hiding? Here on TAM, i guess


So back to the cougar


----------



## HiRoad

tom67 said:


> So back to the cougar


LMAO! This is true, back to the cougar!


----------



## tom67

For entertainment purposes only I love that quality dating site known as [email protected]!st:rofl: or [email protected]@ge:lol: again for entertainment only.


----------



## hope4family

There are plenty of "friend" category women out there. Working on one that is interested in a relationship. Oh boy, still a challenge. 

Translation: I am in the same predicament as you (HiRoad) and Z. Right now though I am working on having as many females friends as possible. If one really wants to try hard on a relationship. She will let me know.


----------



## HiRoad

I swear that there has to be some sane women out there.

I know i am a catch, just need to find the right one that had there head screwed on straight.

Feeling the sting is an old familiar feeling, sux, but been down this road before.


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> I swear that there has to be some sane women out there.
> 
> I know i am a catch, just need to find the right one that had there head screwed on straight.
> 
> Feeling the sting is an old familiar feeling, sux, but been down this road before.


This sting is more like a gnat compared to the freaking hornets we went through.  You'll make it.


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> Well your gut doesnt lie!
> 
> New babe just called to call it quits with me, to probably either:
> 
> 1. deal with her feelings and get over the abuser or;
> 2. get back with the abuser.
> 
> I am glad she did it now than later when i was fully committed to this new babe.
> 
> Stings a little, but it is a part of life, glad i still have my feet firmly planted on the ground



Hang in there buddy. She probably did you a favor.


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> This sting is more like a gnat compared to the freaking hornets we went through.  You'll make it.



This is soo true


----------



## HiRoad

GutPunch said:


> Hang in there buddy. She probably did you a favor.


Yes, looking from the outside in, i think that you are right, of course this may be the little sting talking, i may need a break from women!!!


----------



## HiRoad

Rejection - that old familar smell! Love it, i am becoming a masochist!


----------



## GutPunch

That gnat has done got me twice.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Yes, looking from the outside in, i think that you are right, of course this may be the little sting talking, i may need a break from women!!!


It certainly can't hurt. Good test of aloneness/loneliness. 

I was thinkin of asking sandwich girl out. Fairly certain she'll accept (~24-25yo hottie) but I have a bday party this weekend out of town. Then the next week my bday, kids bday, and possibly dday. 

Next weekend would be better.


----------



## HiRoad

zillard said:


> It certainly can't hurt. Good test of aloneness/loneliness.
> 
> I was thinkin of asking sandwich girl out. Fairly certain she'll accept (~24-25yo hottie) but I have a bday party this weekend out of town. Then the next week my bday, kids bday, and possibly dday.
> 
> Next weekend would be better.


Becareful, i have relized that either there is still pain i am dealing with or that i was actually having some feelings for her.

Either way putting yourself out there is a good thing.


----------



## zillard

I'll see how this bday party goes first. I only know 2-3 people going. A fitness instructor friend of mine from HS is throwing it for me in Scottsdale, so should be a good selection.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Becareful, i have relized that either there is still pain i am dealing with or that i was actually having some feelings for her.


Yeah, that's scary to be having feeling for someone so soon after the split. Now you're in a good place to sit and sort through those feelings and identify them. 

And hey - maybe this was your rebound and you got off light!


----------



## familyfirst09

Oh you men are funny sometimes!!! You need to come to nova scotia 
So sorry to hear about your babe Hi, but it keeps things in perspective for you. It'll take some time before the right one comes along. Use this time to find out not only what you want but what you don't want (ie abusive ex boyfriends). 

I think you're not done dealing with the pain from stbxw and any feelings you thought you had for babe were just those nice feelings of having someone around. You still have a lot to work through. But you still sound way better off than a month ago so keep up the good work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

So it has 5mnths since the split. I think i may have lowered my walls a bit and let her in a touch. Hence the sting. But you all are right i may have gotten off easy.

I will have to reflect a bit to see where these feelings are coming from. 

May have been that she really caught my interest. Dont know. 

She def needs to sort through her issues w/ abusive BF first. 

I cant be part of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

No and niether can your kids. How are they doing? How is the stbxw with the custody arrangement?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

stbxw is sticking to the arrangement, FF09, kids are doing good. 

I talked to the cougar tonight and she spilled the beans on the posOM, basically he is a piece of work.

Now i know that this realtionaship will not last, between them both 7 kids. 

I just dont want to be around when she crashes.


----------



## bandit.45

She will. 

Hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

Man this sting brings back old memories! gotta love it.

Why do we cling, pursue, pester, chase, try to reason, text, call, beg, plead, etc. - funny thing is that with new babe, this behavior is what is getting her attention from her abuser BF.

Me - i am sitting and watching what she does, this makes for a great experiment.

Any suggestions?


----------



## familyfirst09

When she crashes your kids will as well, be careful what you wish for 

Just like your stbxw, you can't change babe either. She's gonna do what she's gonna do. Don't get in the way. You don't have anything invested, walk away while you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

familyfirst09 said:


> When she crashes your kids will as well, be careful what you wish for
> 
> Just like your stbxw, you can't change babe either. She's gonna do what she's gonna do. Don't get in the way. You don't have anything invested, walk away while you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When she crashes i will be there for the kids, also i am working on a making a better relationship with stbxw so we can at least talk on the phone

As far as babe, lol, i have gone to NC, let her go, and moving on, again!

If she is smart and can figure her sh!t out quick then there is a chance otherwise it is prob done.


----------



## K.C.

Sounds like you really are getting your sh!t together HiR.

I think you should be very proud at how you are handling everything, I am a wee bit jealous.


----------



## Chuck71

when there are a housefull of reasons why you should be moving on....it's hard to make a defense


----------



## HiRoad

HiRoad said:


> The kicker of my weekend i forgot to mention.
> 
> While i was with the new babe, a cougar that I meet a while back (if you have been following my thread i mention it before) got back in touch with me.
> 
> She told me that she new who my stbxw posOM was and his story. She told me his name and that he was married before with 3 kids, had a kid with another GF, and just recently got her GF prego and left her for my stbxw!!! So her freind who is 4mnths prego with posOM baby is severly depressed and he is with my stbxw.
> 
> Boy am i happy I am miles away from that drama!


I am living a soap opera life right now!

So i was down a tiny bit becasuse of the loss of new babe, so i called the cougar to follow-up with her on her preggo friend.

The cougar spills all the beans on my stbxw posOM and how much of a POS he is. She tells me that she gave her preggo friend my number to call me, she is really depressed and down.

So later in the night, preggo friend (stbxw posOM GF) calls me, we talk for 3hrs. She is a really strong women, she has lawyered up and is proceeding to have the baby full custody. I got soo much infor about posOM and stbxw i would need hours to explain it all here. She is a very nice women and just like me got hosed! She offered any help that she could give me. To some up our convo, everything that i have assumed was going on with stbxw and posOM is absolutley true!

She is actually 7mnths preggo, very successful career, a caretaker, giver, drop dead gorgeous (dont know why posOM left her for my stbxw) and has a huge heart. She just got wrapped up in the wrong guy. She is in therapy and handeling it the best way she knows how. 

We are meeting up today, to put a face to our names. Poor thing, i cant help but feel for her. I cant imagine the pain she is going through.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> i am working on a making a better relationship with stbxw so we can at least talk on the phone


This is good. 

I would like to get to this place with mine. We are now much more comfortable at kid swaps but not yet speaking on the phone. Some email and text, but I would rather do phone as there is no tone of voice in email. 

Is probably good that it's taking time though. Baby steps. Grow accustomed to the new situation and accept. Once both parties do, civil constructive conversation is possible with some effort.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> I am living a soap opera life right now!
> 
> So i was down a tiny bit becasuse of the loss of new babe, so i called the cougar to follow-up with her on her preggo friend.
> 
> The cougar spills all the beans on my stbxw posOM and how much of a POS he is. She tells me that she gave her preggo friend my number to call me, she is really depressed and down.
> 
> So later in the night, preggo friend (stbxw posOM GF) calls me, we talk for 3hrs. She is a really strong women, she has lawyered up and is proceeding to have the baby full custody. I got soo much infor about posOM and stbxw i would need hours to explain it all here. She is a very nice women and just like me got hosed! She offered any help that she could give me. To some up our convo, everything that i have assumed was going on with stbxw and posOM is absolutley true!
> 
> She is actually 7mnths preggo, very successful career, a caretaker, giver, drop dead gorgeous (dont know why posOM left her for my stbxw) and has a huge heart. She just got wrapped up in the wrong guy. She is in therapy and handeling it the best way she knows how.
> 
> We are meeting up today, to put a face to our names. Poor thing, i cant help but feel for her. I cant imagine the pain she is going through.


Definitely soap territory! lol

Cougar sets you up on a date with your stbxw's posOm's FPOW (former preggo OW).


----------



## hope4family

Guard your heart HiRoad. For it will determine your path. 

That being said, enjoy life to the fullest and try to find something else to talk about then POSom or POSexw.


----------



## HiRoad

My life is filled with more drama than when my parents D!

I am staying far far far away from it!

I cant wait for this D to be over, so that i can start my new life!

I just want a clean break with stbxw


----------



## HiRoad

My therapy sessions is going to be juicy! My IC may do a backflip!


----------



## GutPunch

zillard said:


> Definitely soap territory! lol
> 
> Cougar sets you up on a date with your stbxw's posOm's FPOW (former preggo OW).



Now that's funny


----------



## tom67

zillard said:


> Definitely soap territory! lol
> 
> Cougar sets you up on a date with your stbxw's posOm's FPOW (former preggo OW).


It's like one of those novelas on spanish tv only this is reality:circle:Hey what the heck if preggo is as hot as you say well you could be the shoulder to cry onamong other things lol.


----------



## zillard

tom67 said:


> It's like one of those novelas on spanish tv only this is reality:circle:Hey what the heck if preggo is as hot as you say well you could be the shoulder to cry onamong other things lol.


Personally I think pregnant women are hot. Not sure why.


----------



## hope4family

zillard said:


> Personally I think pregnant women are hot. Not sure why.


There are many reasons why. I'll just say that there are few things more beautiful then the continuation of life on the planet. 

That's the PG version anyway.


----------



## HiRoad

Well i am suppose to meet up with posOMPGF (posOMpreggers GF lol) today.

Let me clear something up tho, the cougar did not want me to hook-up with her, just wanted me to talk to her and console her. (if she is hot that is another story, )

But i agree with all of you, preggo women are hot, something about it that makes the caveman in me come out and beat my chest!


----------



## tom67

Well we will be waiting to find out how it went.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> But i agree with all of you, preggo women are hot, something about it that makes the caveman in me come out and beat my chest!


You can't knock em up either! :smthumbup:


----------



## Chuck71

Z-lmfao


----------



## GutPunch

I think pregnant women are beautiful as well. Something about them. Their glow. (that was for the women who read this)

Could be because their knockers get bigger. (for the men)


----------



## familyfirst09

OMG!! You leave that pregnant woman alone!!! Lol. 
I am blessed with a beautiful D through adoption so was never blessed with the big knockers lol

Wow, what drama tho, and I thought women were bad. Is this what I have in store for me when I start dating?

And hiroad, please define "cougar". How old is she?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch

familyfirst09 said:


> And hiroad, please define "cougar". How old is she?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Don't answer this question. It's a trap!


----------



## zillard

GutPunch said:


> Don't answer this question. It's a trap!


I'll take it on. 

Any woman older than the man-cub she's seducing.


----------



## familyfirst09

Haha! Well it sounds like hi road is the one doing the seducing. So she's not a cougar! Damn something else to worry about when I enter the dating pool lol. 
Btw cougartown with courtney cox was a good show. Is that still on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> Haha! Well it sounds like hi road is the one doing the seducing. So she's not a cougar! Damn something else to worry about when I enter the dating pool lol.
> Btw cougartown with courtney cox was a good show. Is that still on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dunno FF. Often women get very horny when they're prego. 

Or so I've heard.


----------



## familyfirst09

The preggo woman is not the cougar (or she is??). She's the posom ex something or other if I'm following the drama correctly. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

familyfirst09 said:


> The preggo woman is not the cougar (or she is??). She's the posom ex something or other if I'm following the drama correctly. Lol.


OH. yes. Looks like I was twisting it a bit too far. 

So HiR - is prego ALSO a cougar? Or does it get even better? Is she cougar's college-age niece?


----------



## hope4family

I am with my son. So this is like my TV for the night.


----------



## familyfirst09

Where's HiR? We need these questions answered!!!
Oh wait...he's with cougar/preggo lady isn't he??
Ha! He's gonna laugh his [email protected]@ off when he sees all this!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

familyfirst09 said:


> Where's HiR? We need these questions answered!!!
> Oh wait...he's with cougar/preggo lady isn't he??
> Ha! He's gonna laugh his [email protected]@ off when he sees all this!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh dear what a "unique" 3 way that would bevideo at 11 lol


----------



## hope4family

I dont think he is with both...I believe it was cougars' reference. Which was the pregnant lady.


----------



## zillard

hope4family said:


> I dont think he is with both...I believe it was cougars' reference. Which was the pregnant lady.


But the age of the pregnant woman is in question now. If she's friends with cougar should we assume she is also a cougar? Or cougar's french maid?


----------



## hope4family

The problem is the definition of cougar. If its simply someone older then you, then I have broken that roll a lot. Of course, I've also dated young enough to rob the cradle. 

Considering HiRoads age, and the questionable definition of a cougar, we could assume anywhere from 28-45. 

Should we be placing bets?


----------



## zillard

Well if posOM has a type, and assuming HiR's X is a few years younger than he...

I'm going 30.


----------



## hope4family

I'm bored, i'm going to go with younger to 27. Yeah thats outside of the range, but my theory is that she was young enough to get pregnant. 

Well wait and see......


----------



## Chuck71

i'll say 37


----------



## familyfirst09

hope4family said:


> The problem is the definition of cougar. If its simply someone older then you, then I have broken that roll a lot. Of course, I've also dated young enough to rob the cradle.
> 
> Considering HiRoads age, and the questionable definition of a cougar, we could assume anywhere from 28-45.
> 
> Should we be placing bets?


I think HiR is 34...so by definition the cougar would have to be older than 34....I'm gonna go with 37-38 as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## familyfirst09

Suspicious that he still hasn't checked in....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

or is it? :smnotworthy:


----------



## hope4family

Isn't he California time? Thats 6:44am...give him at least "a morning after".


----------



## Chuck71

yes.....PST or -8 GST


----------



## familyfirst09

He's got some 'splainin to do!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hope4family

familyfirst09 said:


> He's got some 'splainin to do!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Were still waiting....


----------



## HiRoad

OMMMMGG! LMAO! You TAMers are freagin hilarious, i spit my dinner out all over the table reading all of this, i was laughing so hard!!

To clear the air:

I am 34 I went out for the first time back in dec. and meet the hot cougars. both of which have my number and keep regular contact with me.

The courgar ran into my stbxw's posOM-x-GF. She gave her my number and told her to call me. 

I met up with posOM-x-gf last night, and to confirm everyones curiosity she is smokin hot! I have no idea why posOM left a smokin hot chic (she is 35) for my stbxw!?? Maybe b/c she is bubbly and young (30) IDK?? We talked alot and i told her these exact words "you are really good looking I dont know why posOM left you for my stbxw, any man would be a lucky man to have you on his arm" She texted me after our meeting and told me that i was alot better looking than posOM and we shoud have been the ones who had the A??!!

Also, new babe and I have been in contact with each other too, we have been talking alot, she told me that she has STRONG feelings for me but still has history with the abuser. So after a long talk and a brief meeting () we decided to go dark for a week and half, not for her, she said for me, then if after 1.5 weeks of dark I miss her or still feel the same about her and she about me we purue this further. This wont be hard for me, either way, i am ok with the result.


----------



## hope4family

I'd go after the pregnant one....

Am I weird? Also who called age 30?


----------



## HiRoad

Also, posOM-x-gf, spilled all the beans for me and is willing to help me in anyway possible.

However, i cant help but notice she is carrying alot of bitterness around. She is def. look for vindication or retribution of sorts. 

I recommended to her to do nothing, not a damn thing! She understood but nothign like a women scorned. She is def. seeing red!

Still cant believe how smoking hot she was, and she is very successful in her career makes $100k plus at least, and she doesnt look a day over 26!


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> I'd go after the pregnant one....
> 
> Am I weird? Also who called age 30?


Ok:

HiR stbxw - 30

Courgars - 41 & 42

posOM-x-gf 35


----------



## hope4family

Nobody called 35...

Sad that she is bitter...but hell hat no fury then a woman scorned.


----------



## GutPunch

I think chuck was the closest


----------



## Stella Moon

I..am...laughing so hard right now...

I'm 47 today...so...am I a cougar? What constitutes a cougar? or a MILF? What's a MILF then? 

Or was I considered a cougar on New Years night because I was with a youngin...maybe 27?? He had 8 pk Abs i chipped a nail on...only in Wisconsin...sigh..


Wow...did I just type this? 

Hiroad....hide me...


----------



## Stella Moon

I really need to get off these night shifts and get more sleep...


----------



## GutPunch

I think the cougar needs kittens to become a milf.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

Yes stella it sounds like you are a cougar.. therefore you would be, by definition, a milf if you had kids.

Glad to see you were out having fun NYE 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stella Moon

I remember hearing MILF all the time when my house had teens running thru it...I have a 21 yr old son and 27 yr old daughter...
And there were other dumb abbreviations...no idea what most were...my son would be pissed tho..but my daughter would laugh...

I just thought they were being dumb with all their friends.


----------



## coachman

I'd go after the prego hottie as well. She sounds like she would be a hell of a good time.


----------



## Stella Moon

HiRoad said:


> Yes stella it sounds like you are a cougar.. therefore you would be, by definition, a milf if you had kids.
> 
> Glad to see you were out having fun NYE
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NYE?

Oh New Year's Eve...yea...I need a nap.

Yea I don't get out much...


----------



## Stella Moon

coachman said:


> i'd go after the prego hottie as well. She sounds like she would be a hell of a good time.


lmao!!!


----------



## coachman

New Years Eve.. You know.. Chipped tooth. How come that story doesn't surprise me one bit?


----------



## Stella Moon

Hiroad...is the preggo chick pregnant from your stbxw's OM? 

Did I even ask that right? If I read the threads correctly..


----------



## Stella Moon

coachman said:


> New Years Eve.. You know.. Chipped tooth. How come that story doesn't surprise me one bit?


Chipped nail...

CHIPPED NAIL! Lol


----------



## coachman

Lol.. Sorry.. Same difference though!

It very well just might be me but pregnant chics are sexy as hell... And smokin hot? 

Lock it up HiRoad


----------



## HiRoad

Stella.. you got it right! Preggo chick is from stbxw posOM who was with preggo chic for 9mnths before he got with my X

Coach... i am still im shock... she has it all she is hot smart makes alot of $$ is in extremely good shape and has a HOT bod!

I wish could post a pic i have of her.. trust me when i say smokin hot!!

And she calls me everyday 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

Not just you coachman. Definitely not. 

HiR - best retribution for you AND posOM-xGF - do it up!


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Coach... i am still im shock... she has it all she is hot smart makes alot of $$ is in extremely good shape and has a HOT bod!


Yeah, but she got preggo and probably started talking all serious like. 

Proof that stbxw will be in bad shape soon. He's just a pos with a chubby.


----------



## HiRoad

Z- i know right!! We have discussed such things.. not what your thinking though.  we thought about going out to place and be seen together!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

That's right! fake it til ya make it. 

Staged hand-holding and peck on the cheek at an opportune moment and BAM!

You're in and they're both flippin out.


----------



## Stella Moon

zillard said:


> That's right! fake it til ya make it.
> 
> Staged hand-holding and peck on the cheek at an opportune moment and BAM!
> 
> You're in and they're both flippin out.


And rub her preggo belly! LOL! 

Wow...she's hot...and pregnant...and the exe's ex...

yea...you guys should go out and be seen together doin' it up...that would be soooo fking hilarious!!!


----------



## hope4family

All this thread needs is smoke guada cheese and wine. Its already so full of win.

This thread is starting to make me reconsider wanting to get with someone who wants more kids. The whole pregnant beauty thing...yeah its true. Real men love it.


----------



## Stella Moon

zillard said:


> Yeah, but she got preggo and probably started talking all serious like.
> 
> Proof that stbxw will be in bad shape soon. *He's just a pos with a chubby.*


:lol:


----------



## Stella Moon

hope4family said:


> All this thread needs is smoke guada cheese and wine. Its already so full of win.
> 
> This thread is starting to make me reconsider wanting to get with someone who wants more kids. The whole pregnant beauty thing...yeah its true. Real men love it.


pppffttt... 

_I'm thinkin' I need to go out and get laid..._


----------



## hope4family

Stella Moon said:


> pppffttt...
> 
> _I'm thinkin' I need to go out and get laid..._


I told you, to stop being so damn attractive! Us nice guys can't handle all the attention! 

Ah **** I only have a 4 pack, who am I kidding.


----------



## zillard

Stella Moon said:


> pppffttt...
> 
> _I'm thinkin' I need to go out and get laid..._


Road trip!!!


----------



## HiRoad

hope4family said:


> All this thread needs is smoke guada cheese and wine. Its already so full of win.
> 
> This thread is starting to make me reconsider wanting to get with someone who wants more kids. The whole pregnant beauty thing...yeah its true. Real men love it.


LMAO Hope, you could grab a good pinot noir some crackers and cheese and read this whole thread and get hooked!

It really is a scene out of a movie!

I even got my whole family and friends wrapped up in it!


----------



## HiRoad

Ok so i need a little kick in the a$$, i think?

New Babe: As of monday she said she needed some time to figure things out between the abuser and me? But we have still been emailing and texting each other alot! She keeps telling me how conflicted she is. I started to get some feelings for her before she called it off. So we saw each other yesterday and boy was it hot and heavy. She even went as far as to tell me she is falling for me and is seriously scared. That she wants to validate her feelings. So her idead was for us to go dark on each other for a 1.5weeks.

Whaat the h3ll does that mean? I know, i know, "let her go" and i ll be better off. But boy, she was really a good chic, had all the pieces for potential, but just needs to figure her sh!t out.

WHat do you think?


----------



## vi_bride04

HiRoad said:


> Ok so i need a little kick in the a$$, i think?
> 
> New Babe: *As of monday she said she needed some time to figure things out *between the abuser and me? But we have still been emailing and texting each other alot! *She keeps telling me how conflicted she is.* I started to get some feelings for her before she called it off. So we saw each other yesterday and boy was it hot and heavy. *She even went as far as to tell me she is falling for me and is seriously scared. That she wants to validate her feelings. So her idead was for us to go dark on each other for a 1.5weeks*.
> 
> Whaat the h3ll does that mean? I know, i know, "let her go" and i ll be better off. But boy, she was really a good chic, had all the pieces for potential, but just needs to figure her sh!t out.
> 
> WHat do you think?


I don't know....sounds like cheater speak to me!!!


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Ok so i need a little kick in the a$$, i think?
> 
> New Babe: As of monday she said she needed some time to figure things out between the abuser and me? But we have still been emailing and texting each other alot! She keeps telling me how conflicted she is. I started to get some feelings for her before she called it off. So we saw each other yesterday and boy was it hot and heavy. She even went as far as to tell me she is falling for me and is seriously scared. That she wants to validate her feelings. So her idead was for us to go dark on each other for a 1.5weeks.
> 
> Whaat the h3ll does that mean? I know, i know, "let her go" and i ll be better off. But boy, she was really a good chic, had all the pieces for potential, but just needs to figure her sh!t out.
> 
> WHat do you think?


HiRoad. Check your PMs and get ready to be sober.


----------



## zillard

She wants to receive validation from you? 

Or she wants the time apart to dissect and examine her feelings for you? 

Didn't she want this time apart before you got together yesterday? 

If she is having trouble being apart from you for 1.5 weeks, this early in the game, she looks like a needy clinger afraid to be alone and unsure of who she is.


----------



## coachman

HR - I think you need to say "Ok no problem" and go on living your life and try not to over think it. 

Let her figure her $hit out.

Over analyzing and assuming will get you nowhere. 

There is an easy solution to this anyway...call the prego chic.


----------



## HiRoad

Z - she said she needs validations for her and my feelings.?? Yea she wanted this time apart before we got together yesterday? Wierd? Like I am some sort of drug for her?

Coach - ya, i think that all signs point to that direction


----------



## zillard

It SEEMS that she is not happy with herself, alone, after her failed relationship. She was abused. Just like us, maybe worse. Low self confidence. You liking her feels good and lets her feel important. 

But she realizes that on some level so wants to sort it out. Which is healthy. But not receiving that attention feels bad again, so she reaches out. 

If she doesn't become comfortable with herself, and you do not provide that interest and attention that amp her up, chances are she'll seek it elsewhere. Sort of like stbxw.


----------



## HiRoad

zillard said:


> It SEEMS that she is not happy with herself, alone, after her failed relationship. She was abused. Just like us, maybe worse. Low self confidence. You liking her feels good and lets her feel important.
> 
> But she realizes that on some level so wants to sort it out. Which is healthy. But not receiving that attention feels bad again, so she reaches out.
> 
> If she doesn't become comfortable with herself, and you do not provide that interest and attention that amp her up, chances are she'll seek it elsewhere. Sort of like stbxw.


Very well said Z, I actually had idientified this, but part of me did not want to accept it. 

How could such a wonderful person have these issues?

So with eveyones help here, i know what i have to do, LET HER GO.

If she sorts things out on her own and she comes back, fine, otherwise time to hit the HiR!


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Very well said Z, I actually had idientified this, but part of me did not want to accept it.
> 
> How could such a wonderful person have these issues?
> 
> *So with eveyones help here, i know what i have to do, LET HER GO.
> 
> If she sorts things out on her own and she comes back, fine, otherwise time to hit the HiR!*


Ha. How many times have we read this on TAM?

Focus on you. Be happy. If something happens, it happens. When it does - still focus on your own happiness (well, the kids too yeah). Everything else will fall into place... if its healthy.

Not "two become one", needing each other to exist. 

Instead two individuals traveling on the same path.


----------



## hope4family

Our work here is done...for now.


----------



## Chuck71

If you are just dating................what's in it for you? Not her.........you


----------



## HiRoad

Job well done crew! 

Now my focus is back on the preggo posOM-x-gf phase! 

I will keep you all posted on my progress, and of course all the drama that comes along with it.

Can it get any more juicier, we will see!


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> Can it get any more juicier, we will see!


I will refrain from making a bad joke


----------



## Chuck71

Z-I can't remember if you mentioned this on this thread or yours....but about ex and me being friends...................oh yes we will.....until she vacates the house. LOL That will be tomorrow! Friends forever??.....yeah.....keep that thought. Then I can finally wrap-up my thread!


----------



## hope4family

Hiroad. How are you man? I hope everything is going well. Are you still NC with that other chic?


----------



## gbonham77

update please


----------



## zillard

Ok - taking bets. Did HiRoad:

A. Murder his stbxw and end up in jail
B. Find himself in the ER shortly after hooking up with Preggers
C. Get whisked away by a rich cougar and is sittin poolside somewhere
D. End up in the ICU after new girl's abusive ex caught up with him


----------



## GutPunch

What to do with walkaway Tammer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

I guess he graduated. I remember when...


----------



## the guy

What the phuck is going on?!

What ever your banging isn't good for you or the boys!

Usually when a guy has a good thing they post alot of positive sh1t...you my friend are posting alot of negitive sh1t.

Again what the phuck are you banging?


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> What the phuck is going on?!
> 
> What ever your banging isn't good for you or the boys!
> 
> Usually when a guy has a good thing they post alot of positive sh1t...you my friend are posting alot of negitive sh1t.
> 
> Again what the phuck are you banging?


He put a flag over her face and did her for old glory that's what the old timers told me about war brides


----------



## coachman

My gut says its a little bit of all A-D


----------



## Chuck71

I think some legal things are going on. He may have went dark as I did for a spell. But I did post the pending dark. Hope he is using good judgement


----------



## hope4family

zillard said:


> Ok - taking bets. Did HiRoad:
> 
> A. Murder his stbxw and end up in jail
> B. Find himself in the ER shortly after hooking up with Preggers
> C. Get whisked away by a rich cougar and is sittin poolside somewhere
> D. End up in the ICU after new girl's abusive ex caught up with him


A - Doesn't seem like him. His children are too young and that doesn't fit in with his personality. 

B - Possible, but not probable. He never admitted to hooking up either. 

C - This is the most likely. 

D - Also might be possible that he fears ridicule of being with girl with abusive ex.


----------



## Chuck71

E-Moved to Siberia and wed Ulga


----------



## HiRoad

LMFAO - You all are great!

It has been a busy month!

Z - None of the above! Ha

What I have been up to in the last month:
1. Extremely busy at work, and we are almost done with a huge project this week. I have been working the last 8 saturdays, full days too.
2. I have been dating here and there (when i find time) and finding out real quick that there are alot of women out there that have head issues. 
3. Getting out more often in my free time
4. Made a few ME purchases, sold a few items to help for a down on a house
5. Meeting new people and working on a social group

The dating situation
I was dating the korean breezy for a bit, but as some of you know she went back to the abusive BF. Funny thought she still calls and wants to go out here and there!

Recently, this girl whom I work with has been alot more *freindly* then usuall. Come to find out she got D a few months before myself. We have been talking and we hung out once (she is really pretty, has the whole naughty teacher look). *Enter head issues* she has some MAJOR red flags that she actually admitingly told me. She is on antidepressents and still has not quiete turned the corner yet. Basically, she is not ready to date, and it has been almost a year for her.

I met another girl for the dating website, cute 28 yr old 5' jersey girl, 2 kids, D. I still talk to her alot and we went on a few dates, and she TOO is admintingly not ready to get too serious in a relationship. 

I am taking a break from women, or at least D women, i think i need to go for the ones that have not been M.

As far as preggers, we talk often and as far as I can tell she is def attracted to me. So i have taken a few steps back so that she does not get the wrong impression of me. I helped her move into her place, and fixed a few things here and there. Her X (my stbxw's BF) is going crazy as of late, so it has been hard for her and I have been consuling her. 

Other than that, not much else to report, i think!

I am catching up with everyones threads now... :smthumbup:


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad!!!! Glad to hear you are alright. More importantly, glad this thread never wen't dead. 

You left out the most important part. How are your children?


----------



## zillard

Sounds like you are doing well. Welcome back!

Personally I think I'd prefer a D woman over never married. As long as she is like many of the ladies here on TAM, who now know what they want as well as how they can improve... and are going after both.


----------



## HiRoad

@hope - the kiddos are doing great on my end of things, although the stbxw has pretty much moved in with the OM and his 3 other kids. 

@Z - I know what you mean, but the women i am meeting that are D are awful bitter and want no commitmnet (which at times i dont mind). They are essentially man-haters!


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> @hope - the kiddos are doing great on my end of things, although the stbxw has pretty much moved in with the OM and his 3 other kids.
> 
> @Z - I know what you mean, but the women i am meeting that are D are *awful bitter and want no commitment (which at times i dont mind). They are essentially man-haters!*



There are several like that here. 

Sorry about the kiddo's. That's got to suck for their emotional dynamic. Please continue being the best man you can be. Sounds like you are on the right track. My DS1, always comes back a little different, a little frustrated, a little distrusting, and very clingy.


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> @Z - I know what you mean, but the women i am meeting that are D are awful bitter and want no commitmnet (which at times i dont mind). They are essentially man-haters!


Many are, yes. I'm finding the same thing. While chatting with one (1.5 out from her D) she was calling him a f-er still. Asked if I had kids. Told her I have one, 6 day/wk. She asked how I got that custody. I told her I asked. 

"Oh, well your exW is a b!tch then". 

1.5 years and still so bitter. No thanks.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Many are, yes. I'm finding the same thing. While chatting with one (1.5 out from her D) she was calling him a f-er still. Asked if I had kids. Told her I have one, 6 day/wk. She asked how I got that custody. I told her I asked.
> 
> "Oh, well your exW is a b!tch then".
> 
> 1.5 years and still so bitter. No thanks.


It literally shouts at you now, doesn't it?

Anthony DeMello:

"To see through others, we must first see through ourselves"


----------



## Chuck71

Glad you're back.....have a beer or 12. I can relate to females wanting LTR on dating sites but in person are not ready. After D and kids....always more baggage. I tried the dating sites and just was not thrilled. How are your D coming along?


----------



## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> She is on antidepressents


Well I'm outta here!


----------



## coachman

Siberia w/ Ulga looks like it may have been the best option. Oh well...next time


----------



## hope4family

zillard said:


> Many are, yes. I'm finding the same thing. While chatting with one (1.5 out from her D) she was calling him a f-er still. Asked if I had kids. Told her I have one, 6 day/wk. She asked how I got that custody. I told her I asked.
> 
> "Oh, well your exW is a b!tch then".
> 
> 1.5 years and still so bitter. No thanks.


Is that being bitter, or was she speaking with someone who hopefully would understand and form an emotional connection?

Does the truth of her being a b!tch sting to you? We at times jump too hard and too fast to defend our ex's saying that they had childhood mental issues, or were bi-polar, or anything we can come up with to excuse actions. 

This isn't a personal attack. But something i've noticed amongst us all. I don't want to be bitter as well, and am not personally attracted to those who appear bitter. But women especially, will call a spade a spade when it comes to who has the children.

For example: Most men just go "oh". 

Most women either give me the wide eyed look, or say "*****." Very rarely do they look for a cue from me. 

Are your results similar?


----------



## Conrad

Hope,

I've found it's the level of emotion in the denunciation that tells the tale.

This is true for me also.

If you stay at 50,000 feet, you see it.


----------



## zillard

Conrad said:


> Hope,
> 
> I've found it's the level of emotion in the denunciation that tells the tale.
> 
> This is true for me also.
> 
> If you stay at 50,000 feet, you see it.


Agreed. This woman seemed to be looking for a high five after the comment. Wanting to engage in a bout of X bashing to validate her position with her X. 

I would rather get to know her, but the level of her bitterness in the conversation showed that she was still clearly very emotionally attached to her X. Otherwise the bashing would have been less enthusiastic - if any. 

Comments like "you deserve better" or "well that says a lot about your X" would be fine.


----------



## HiRoad

I catch all the red flags, although to be honest part of me likes the challenge and chase. 

I have since refrained from such destructive behavior.

The D is almost final, very clean and easy.

I have noticed the stbxw being alot more freindly as of late, probalby trouble in paradise. To me, as long as my kids are cared for and loved i am 'ok' with it.

Also a side note, my X-MIL eloped and got married to a trucker (she is a nurse and makes alot of $$$) she has only known this gut for 4 months! I guess the tree does not stray to far from the apple.


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Agreed. This woman seemed to be looking for a high five after the comment. Wanting to engage in a bout of X bashing to validate her position with her X.
> 
> I would rather get to know her, but the level of her bitterness in the conversation showed that she was still clearly very emotionally attached to her X. Otherwise the bashing would have been less enthusiastic - if any.
> 
> Comments like "you deserve better" or "well that says a lot about your X" would be fine.


It's a form of wallowing - on the Victim Throne.


----------



## HiRoad

@coach - I am taking another break from women, I say this and then something falls on my lap. A trip to siberia sounds pleasing.


----------



## HiRoad

Things just got complicated between preggers and I!


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Things just got complicated between preggers and I!


Go on.


----------



## HiRoad

Well lets just put it this way, all of you on here got what you wished for! 

We took the "freindship" to a whole another level!


----------



## zillard

Can't wait to read the post about your ex finding out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

zillard said:


> Can't wait to read the post about your ex finding out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To be honest the X and i are doing pretty well. But to see the expression on her face IF she ever found out! Priceless!

Now the questions remains .. ... what to do with preggers!

As mentioned before, she is smokin hot, makes great $$, has great family, self supportive, and now has the hots for HiR!


----------



## tom67

Great news Hi
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## zillard

HiRoad said:


> To be honest the X and i are doing pretty well. But to see the expression on her face IF she ever found out! Priceless!
> 
> Now the questions remains .. ... what to do with preggers!
> 
> As mentioned before, she is smokin hot, makes great $$, has great family, self supportive, and *now* has the hots for HiR!


Now? I'm thinking she probably has a while. 

Excellent to hear things are going well on the X front. That will benefit the little ones immensely.

As for preggo - better start practicing those breathing techniques.


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Well lets just put it this way, all of you on here got what you wished for!
> 
> We took the "freindship" to a whole another level!


You don't have to marry so soon. Are you even divorced yet?


----------



## zillard

Whoa. Keep the "M" word out of this, hope. lol


----------



## Conrad

zillard said:


> Whoa. Keep the "M" word out of this, hope. lol


Amen


----------



## familyfirst09

Conrad said:


> It literally shouts at you now, doesn't it?
> 
> Anthony DeMello:
> 
> "To see through others, we must first see through ourselves"


These are women who have not heeled yet...heck I call my X a fvcker all the time, haha. But hopefully he won't even mean a thing soon enough to even bother calling him that. 

I love this quote btw...its one I have hi-lighted 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HiRoad

Not D as of yet, few more heardles to jump and i am done. Taxes being one of them.

@Z - yea she is going commando style and not doing any drugs so she is going to need breathing to help her!

Gotta say, she is a catch though! Drama aside!


----------



## HiRoad

Whoa whoa whoa , yea keep marriage away from me!


----------



## coachman

Awesome news. Can't wait for the fireworks when Ex and POSom find out. Might need to change your handle to-

Step-Daddio


----------



## HiRoad

coachman said:


> Awesome news. Can't wait for the fireworks when Ex and POSom find out. Might need to change your handle to-
> 
> Step-Daddio


Well as of now that POS has barely contacted her at all. He probably figures if she is not going to go after him for child support, he does not HAVE to be a dad! What a bum, cant believe there are actually people like this out there.


----------



## hope4family

HiRoad said:


> Well as of now that POS has barely contacted her at all. He probably figures if she is not going to go after him for child support, he does not HAVE to be a dad! What a bum, cant believe there are actually people like this out there.


It happens more often then you think.

You said "another level." That left it open to a lot of consideration. That's like asking my basketball analytic mind to interpret "ceiling" of basketball prospects. 

I sense you are content with how this is. That's awesome. I would say take it slow, but um, yeah I think you got this.


----------



## hope4family

As always, my usual question. How are your kids?


----------



## hope4family

zillard said:


> Whoa. Keep the "M" word out of this, hope. lol


You should talk. Between you and the tiger, and the college reunions tying back to your ex. There is plenty of drama going around. 

But I think so far HiRoad is going for the Springer Prize. Not that I see it as a competition. But seeing people able to turn the hard times around and attempt to find happiness. Even if we all know its drug related. Makes me smile.


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## HiRoad

@hope- the kids are doing so well, with ME at least. I got my oldest potty trained and the youngest is following suit great. Only downside is that i can tell that the kiddos are not to keen of the OM. I just tell them to always be nice and say please and thank you. However, i am watching with a close eye, any funny stuff and BAM we are back to square one with the X


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## Conrad

familyfirst09 said:


> These are women who have not heeled yet...heck I call my X a fvcker all the time, haha. But hopefully he won't even mean a thing soon enough to even bother calling him that.
> 
> I love this quote btw...its one I have hi-lighted
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can spot the red flags in posts in the same manner.


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## zillard

hope4family said:


> You should talk. Between you and the tiger, and the college reunions tying back to your ex. There is plenty of drama going around.
> 
> But I think so far HiRoad is going for the Springer Prize.


haha. Touché


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## tom67

Reality is stranger than fiction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad

Aint that the truth!


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## GutPunch

HiRoad said:


> Things just got complicated between preggers and I!



Nice...Give BW some thread competition.


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## tom67

GutPunch said:


> Nice...Give BW some thread competition.


:rofl::rofl::lol::iagree:


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## Conrad

tom67 said:


> :rofl::rofl::lol::iagree:


Perhaps we should petition the mods to change the name of this subforum to "_*The Adventures of Bullwinkle and Friends*_"


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## tom67

HiRoad's adventure is juicier than one of those novelas on telemundo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Lunes a Viernes-anyway, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

Squirrels won't be the only thing flying if you're not cautious


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## HiRoad

I am back online.... Just read through what I went thought I ALOT has happened since Nov. '12, things could NOT be better. For all you going through tough times it does get better REALLY!


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## Thound

Please update us.


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## tom67

HiRoad said:


> I am back online.... Just read through what I went thought I ALOT has happened since Nov. '12, things could NOT be better. For all you going through tough times it does get better REALLY!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI :wink2:


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## hope4family

He lives. All we need.


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## HeartRN

I'm just reading this now for the first time. Allow me to introduce myself... You all know me as "preggers".

I am now Mrs HiRoad and we are about to celebrate our 2nd year married this 12/13/15. 

Marriage is far from easy and to say that us meeting each other to dating, and making it official has been a whirlwind is putting it lightly. 

HiR and I meet by chance and became friends quick and well.... TBH, He has many qualities that make him a wonderful man, husband, and father. He is all my little girl has known from the moment he brought us home from the hospital to present. He is her daddy and she his only little girl. It makes me emotional even typing this as I think of how close they are. It warms my heart. I know some day she will come to know that her biodad is not her REAL DAD but I have faith it wont matter to her because she has an incredible bond with her REAL DAD.

We now have a baby boy together and we have vowed to never give up on our marriage no matter what. The challenges we face are probably far more than most married couples have to face and although we have dark days, I know HiR would agree with me, neither of us will walk away. We said I DO and it is Till Death Parts us.

PS.... Kinda glad WAW left HiR... We both deserved better and we have it now lol


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## Chuck71

HiRoad said:


> I am back online.... Just read through what I went thought I ALOT has happened since Nov. '12, things could NOT be better. For all you going through tough times it does get better REALLY!


It's about @$^&%@#!# time!

Look forward to your update!


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## Marc878

HeartRN said:


> I'm just reading this now for the first time. Allow me to introduce myself... You all know me as "preggers".
> 
> I am now Mrs HiRoad and we are about to celebrate our 2nd year married this 12/13/15.
> 
> Marriage is far from easy and to say that us meeting each other to dating, and making it official has been a whirlwind is putting it lightly.
> 
> HiR and I meet by chance and became friends quick and well.... TBH, He has many qualities that make him a wonderful man, husband, and father. He is all my little girl has known from the moment he brought us home from the hospital to present. He is her daddy and she his only little girl. It makes me emotional even typing this as I think of how close they are. It warms my heart. I know some day she will come to know that her biodad is not her REAL DAD but I have faith it wont matter to her because she has an incredible bond with her REAL DAD.
> 
> We now have a baby boy together and we have vowed to never give up on our marriage no matter what. The challenges we face are probably far more than most married couples have to face and although we have dark days, I know HiR would agree with me, neither of us will walk away. We said I DO and it is Till Death Parts us.
> 
> PS.... Kinda glad WAW left HiR... We both deserved better and we have it now lol


hmmmm, you are smart like he said aren't you? Excellent and pretty heartwarming post.

I'm very glad for the both of you.


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## hope4family

I wish you both, and the family you have started happiness.


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## coachman

Congrats to both of you. Crazy how things work out.


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