# I don't want to lose him



## theunforgiven

I am married to the most amazing man in the world. About two years ago, during our period of engagement, I stupidly had a six month affair with a work colleague. I begged and begged for forgiveness after I was caught. We married and I am thankful every morning when I wake up next to my husband. I know I am an awful person, and if I could turn back the clock, I would.

Despite the fact it has been two years, and that we are married, I know he doesn't love me like he used to love me. He always used to say "I love you" but seldom says it since the affair. He seems to be disconnected from me. Before he discovered my affair, he was planning to have children with me after we married, but now he says he isn't ready for children because he wants to focus on his career. 

He is still nice to me, but it is different, much different than before. I know he is still hurting. I am scared he is going to leave me. I don't want anyone else, just him. How can I save my marriage?


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## Q tip

By not cheating.

This and look into the permanent scar you created. If you're lucky enough for it not to still be a open wound which it likely is.

6 months of destruction,  Maybe you should let him go for his own happiness. Get IC and MC. 

Understand first, you do not deserve this chance. It was a gift to you. You do not deserve it. What you did gave him his new reality. Nothing will ever be the same, the way it was. You destroyed that. Read on...

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Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacksö assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## nanofaan

are you still working with other man?
how did your husband find out?
was your affair physical?
why do you think you did it? 
how long you guys been together?


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## CH

IMO, looks like you already lost him....

Push him to get back into the marriage or get out. 3rd option is to keep the status quo where both parties are miserable.

Funny how they become the love of our lives and we can't live without them AFTER we cheat on them....


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## theunforgiven

nanofaan said:


> are you still working with other man?


No.




nanofaan said:


> how did your husband find out?


He found texts on my phone.




nanofaan said:


> was your affair physical?


Yes.




nanofaan said:


> why do you think you did it?


It was exciting at the time.




nanofaan said:


> how long you guys been together?


Six years now. About four years at the time of the affair.


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## theunforgiven

CH said:


> 3rd option is to keep the status quo where both parties are miserable.


4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


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## Chris Taylor

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


It won't.At best he will feel trapped. At worst he will divorce you and you'll be a single mom.


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## badmemory

I'm of course sympathetic with your husband, but also to you. Your husband did agree to marry you after knowing about the cheating.

But what he's going through is not unusual. Infidelity can cause some BS's, to develop what I would call, a latent emotional ceiling. A coping mechanism. In fact he sounds very similar to me in that regard.

This could be because not enough time has passed or because he has unresolved thought processes about what you did or what he should have done. The most likely reason they are unresolved is because of rug sweeping the A; to at least some degree.

If you haven't, you should encourage him to go to MC with you or even to IC by himself. Open and honest conversation is what is needed. You can't be afraid to ask him if he wants to talk about the A. 

And as a prior poster offered, "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse, is a must read for you. It may help you identify some things you can do to get him to open up to you and for you to further demonstrate your remorse. 

Good luck to you both.


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## michzz

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


OMG!!

Do NOT do this!!!

You must fix this relationship before inflicting this misery on a child.

At the very least RESPECT his wishes about children.

If you think that merely having a baby will fix any relationship problem then you have a very immature outlook on life.

Please enlist the help of a marriage counselor to attempt to improve your lives together.

Do NOT have a baby yet!!!!!

Did I emphasize this enough?


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## CH

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


You want a brutal, honest, answer...

He's not going to have kids with you. This is how he's getting back at you. You took away something from him that was special and now he's going to take away the one thing you want the most.

BTW, it sounds as if having kids > having a husband for you....If I was him, there is no way I'm ever going to get you pregnant.

Sorry if I'm harsh but I don't usually coat my advice with honey.

Like michzz said, work on healing your marriage 1st before even thinking about having kids with your husband. He's still wounded and a kid will only make it worse.


----------



## Hicks

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


You remain selfish and should not make any babies.

You need to consider the life you are giving a child who has no say in your decision. You should never produce a child that is not wanted by both parents. 

What are you doing to make your husband's life great on a daily basis?
If your husband is not happy in his marriage, why don't you figure out things you can do to make him happy and start doing them?


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


It might, but I doubt it. Because what you did will always be in the back of his mind. 

But do NOT have a child unless he has forgiven you and you are certain you won't ever want that excitement again.

Honestly, I'd really say that you should not have a child. Because IMO what would happen is, since I believe once a cheater always a cheater(whether in practice or in spirit), you'd end up having a mid life crisis, being a mother takes the front seat to being a wife, like my x-wife did, and you will want that excitement again.

I know you say you wouldn't, but I think you'd end up cheating again after becoming a mother so you can have that excitement and want to feel sexy again. Then you'll get divorced, take his child away from him, so to speak, and add insult to injury by him having to pay child support for the privilege of not being with his kids on a daily basis.

So in a nutshell please, do NOT go this route unless you are both absolutely sure. And having cheated for the excitement of it already, you can't be sure. I know you'll say you are, but you already proved and said you liked the excitement, and you'll like it again. You sound JUST like my x-wife.


----------



## NoChoice

NO NO NO NO NO DO NOT TRICK HIM INTO GETTING YOU PREGNANT!!!

IF you have any feelings for this man do not make him shoulder the responsibility of fatherhood with you until AFTER he has healed from your wounding. IT WILL NOT MAKE HIM LOVE YOU MORE. It will make him feel trapped and betrayed again. He will resent you more than ever. Also, never consider bringing a child into this world until you are SURE you can provide a warm, stable environment for it to grow in. Children are not tools of manipulation to be used to coerce someone so you can get what you want. For God's sake OP are you kidding.

You may have sacrificed your shot at kids with him when you went with "exciting" over stable, dependable and secure. You must now live with that. You two could try counseling or therapy but not procreation as a means to heal what you've done.


----------



## Squeakr

Agree with Vellocet 100%. My STBXW cheated on me during our engagement (only found out about that recently, so I never had the luxury of forgiving and overlooking the offense like your H did). She has also cheated the entire length of our marriage and said she needed/wanted more in her life. She got pregnant and we have 2 kids (not sure if they truly are mine and not sure if I am ready to find that out, as I have raised them and been there for their entire lives, both in their teens now and I am DAD to them). 

I know that after a child comes along the demographic of a marriage changes. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but it always changes as new responsibilities arise and less time is available to accomplish things. These changes add stress, which is why the marriage always changes. I can honestly say that I never looked at my wife after the births and felt any more or less love for her. The births change nothing (now the infidelities, that is another story). If you think that getting pregnant (which by your calculation would be entrapment as you are planning it) will make things better, you are completely mistaken in your ideals. You need to win him back by changing and doing things to help him heal, not by continuing to undermine him as you did during your affair.


----------



## Squeakr

What I question is what have you done to change your ways to insure that this atrocity never happens again.

I read that you wake up each day and thank your lucky stars, but what have you done to help him heal and change yourself to insure that you can "affair proof" your marriage as much as possible? Seems you are focused on your luck and not on his pain.

I see no mention of you doing anything to earn back his trust, MC, IC, or any changes on your part to insure that it never happens again and to help him heal. It is also disconcerting to see you answer that the reason you cheated was that it was "exciting". I appreciate your truthfulness and candor in this regards, but the way I see it, is that you are ashamed and regretful that you got caught and of your actions (didn't see any real remorse that you did it, but more that you got caught and possibly ruined your "dream" relationship). I think that when you only think about turing back the time to "not" do it, you are focused more on the bad decision than making the change and securing against it happening again. If excitement is the main cause I would be worried (and he may as well) that when things become boring, what is ensuring him that this won't happen again in the future?

Like I said about my wife. She seemed to subscribe to the same philosophy and without changing her ways, it was only a matter of time that it happened again. You owe it to your H to work on insuring him about that.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


OH boy... you are so wrong.


----------



## drifting on

Theunforgiven

Having a child will make him love you more?? Ugh, no, not likely to be the case but I would like to hear your reasons. I would say having a child explains what true love is. When your husband understands true love towards a child he may then see your love as the opposite. So I would be in disagreement with option four. 

May I ask you why you had the affair? You stated before it was excitement. If my WW gave that answer to me I would be divorced now. You said you loved your husband but went to another, why? My WW can't really answer this either. Maybe everyone interprets the definition of love differently. I love my ww, somehow I would tend to believe if I had sex with another woman my WW wouldn't be all that happy. So why did you?


----------



## thummper

You're lucky, in a way. He went ahead and married you anyway, even though I'm sure his heart was shattered and his trust in you was destroyed. He probably believed in "time heals all wounds," but obviously, at least in this case, it doesn't. He's a good man, and must have loved you deeply. Too bad you threw that in the toilet. Personally, I'd have dropped you like a bad habit the instant I had discovered your disgusting betrayal. "Exciting" indeed! :nono: Well, you're committed now so I hope you two can eventually come to grips with this. Still, what happens when you desire a little "excitement" again in the future?


----------



## jnj express

What I wonder about is why would your H go ahead and marry you, knowing you had a half year PA on him----can you explain that in itself

What was both of your attitudes when you had the ceremony-----both of you were thinking WHAT????????---You, I have cheated and am still going ahead with this mge., what did you think was gonna happen---did you think he was just gonna forgive and forget----and him even moreso---what could he have been thinking---this woman cheats on me for 6 months and I am still going ahead with this mge.

Bringing kids into this, is just a means of entrapment for your H, and DISASTER for the kids-----as I get the impression, your house is not a house with a loving carefree happy attitude 

Both of you need to go to IC, and sort this out-------if things don't change---the mge needs to end------with both of you moving on-----you both are in misery, whether you wanna admit it or not---and it WILL NOT GET BETTER


----------



## Chaparral

Relationship experts say it takes 4-5 years to get over infidelity if both of you do the right things.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> Relationship experts say it takes 4-5 years to get over infidelity *if both of you do the right things.*


Well, given that OP's husband _actually went ahead and married her *in spite of her "exciting", months-long affair*_, I'd say that he's off to a pretty bad start in that regard.


----------



## Q tip

Having kids now? AYOOYFM? Your judgement is sh!t. 

Fix yourself. Grow up, get counseling. Your judgement and boundaries is now and forever the issue. Until you get smart. That OM probably knew you were taken. He is no friend of your relationship (were you?). 

Be thankful your H took you after the worst possible sin against a man was committed. Start earning your place at his side.

Every day is a gift to you. Earn it every day.

Edit: did you even bother to read every word of the second post outlining the absolute pain you are putting him through? Do you even care?


----------



## theunforgiven

Squeakr said:


> It is also disconcerting to see you answer that the reason you cheated was that it was "exciting". I appreciate your truthfulness and candor in this regards, but the way I see it, is that you are ashamed and regretful that you got caught and of your actions (didn't see any real remorse that you did it, but more that you got caught and possibly ruined your "dream" relationship).


I can't explain why I cheated. I knew it was wrong from the beginning. If I could turn back time I would. I had the perfect relationship with my husband (then fiancé). I took it for granted and now I'm paying the price. Of course I am angry at myself for the pain I've caused. Not only for my husband's suffering but for the wife and family of the man I had an affair with. They didn't do anything to deserve this.


----------



## Yeswecan

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


He will not feel love(before the affair) for you again. That ship sailed right after the text messages were discovered. 

Your relationship was forever changed the day you H found the text messages. It is lost forever. Your new reality is as you see it. 

I suspect you H does not really trust you. Can't say I blame him. Further, it may take years to fully get that trust. If at all. With that said, your H sees a child possibly a tie that binds to his W that one day might find it "fun" again to conduct another affair. Moving on is not so easy with a child in the picture.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> I can't explain why I cheated. I knew it was wrong from the beginning. If I could turn back time I would. I had the perfect relationship with my husband (then fiancé). I took it for granted and now I'm paying the price. Of course I am angry at myself for the pain I've caused. Not only for my husband's suffering but for the wife and family of the man I had an affair with. They didn't do anything to deserve this.


No, your H is paying the price. He's the victim. You sure as heck ain't. You're probably sorry you got caught. That is not remorse. You'd still be F'ing the other man if you weren't caught. 

And OM is now married? 

Just what are you doing to fix this. Fix you? Have a plan, share it.

Fix you.


----------



## theunforgiven

drifting on said:


> May I ask you why you had the affair? You stated before it was excitement. If my WW gave that answer to me I would be divorced now. You said you loved your husband but went to another, why? My WW can't really answer this either.


Does anyone really know why they do it? As I've said, it was exciting at the time. I will never, ever, do that again.


----------



## GusPolinski

Q tip said:


> No, your H is paying the price. He's the victim. You sure as heck ain't. You're probably sorry you got caught. That is not remorse. You'd still be F'ing the other mans if you weren't caught.
> 
> And OM is now married?
> 
> Just what are you doing to fix this. Fix you? Have a plan, share it.


It would seem that OM was already married. Sooo... not only did OP cheat on her fiancé, but she did it with a married man.

Nice.


----------



## theunforgiven

thummper said:


> Still, what happens when you desire a little "excitement" again in the future?


This won't ever happen again.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> Does anyone really know why they do it? As I've said, it was exciting at the time. I will never, ever, do that again.


If you don't know why you did it, then how can you know that you won't do it again? After all, it's not like you had to deal with any actual consequences for your infidelity.

Right?!?


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> did you even bother to read every word of the second post outlining the absolute pain you are putting him through? Do you even care?


Yes, I read it. I've been doing all of this for the last two years.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> This won't ever happen again.


How on earth will you prove this, evidence is you already have done the deed. You have a lot of heavy lifting to do. 

It will take him years to recover.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> Does anyone really know why they do it? As I've said, it was exciting at the time. I will never, ever, do that again.


Stop rugsweeping and justifying. Answer the question...


----------



## Clay2013

theunforgiven said:


> This won't ever happen again.


In order for you to have a future with your Husband you have to convince this to him without talking to him. Your words are no longer of any real value to him. 

The bad thing about cheating is you not only took a special part of your life you took a special part of your husbands life and crushed it. He will never look at you the same and each time he gets in bed with you he will think of you with the OM. 

I personally recommend you cut your losses and leave. You failed. Maybe better luck on the next relationship but I seriously doubt it as long as you don't have a clue why you cheated in the first place. If you wont invest in yourself and figure out what is wrong with you then why should your husband invest in you. 

Sorry but it sure does not look good. 

Clay


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> Yes, I read it. I've been doing all of this for the last two years.


So, what have you done with this two years of study. What actions have you taken, how have you discovered yourself and strengthened your weaknesses... What?


----------



## Q tip

True, cheaters are in deed liars. Your actions over the past few years have been what exactly...?


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> Stop rugsweeping and justifying. Answer the question...


The answer is as I've already said, it was exciting at the time. It's the truth.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> Does anyone really know why they do it? As I've said, it was exciting at the time. I will never, ever, do that again.


Yes, everyone knows why they did it. You do to.

You cannot say you will never do it again. If it was exciting once and it just happened, then it will just happen again when the itch for that exciting feeling comes around again.



> I can't explain why I cheated.


Sure you can. You wanted another man inside you and the act of sex with someone new was exciting to you, as you stated. Everyone can explain why they cheated, they just don't want to say it because then the dirtiness of the deed is seen in true light.


----------



## badmemory

OP,

Your husband may remain like this for the rest of your marriage. If you want to do something about it, you've been given some good advice.

You can't be afraid to be pro-active and rock the boat if you want your real husband back.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> The answer is as I've already said, it was exciting at the time. It's the truth.


This is gonna take a few pages...

Why was it exciting. To cheat on ones fiancé with a married man. Why was that exciting? Tell us.

Consider getting your H on this thread, or start his own...


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> True, cheaters are in deed liars. Your actions over the past few years have been what exactly...?


I don't feel that I need to list all of my actions. He knows I would never consider doing anything like this again. He has all of my passwords. I no longer have my own friends, I gave them up (my initiative) so I can be with him whenever he isn't at work, so he never has to doubt me. 24/7, he knows where I am and who I'm with. Everything that someone in my situation should do, I have done, and more.


----------



## ThePheonix

theunforgiven said:


> Despite the fact it has been two years, and that we are married, I know he doesn't love me like he used to love me. He always used to say "I love you" but seldom says it since the affair. He seems to be disconnected from me. Before he discovered my affair, he was planning to have children with me after we married, but now he says he isn't ready for children because he wants to focus on his career.




In a nutshell my girl, its the screwing you get for the screwing you got. Nonetheless, you didn't just have a fling with the other guy because it was exciting. There's more to the story than what you're saying. 
But if "excitement" is all it took for you to lay down with another man, who's to say what you will do the next time an exciting male enters the picture. I agree that you have a pardon of sorts in that he married you after knowing you betrayed him. Don't fool yourself, you can bet he's factored your lack of strength to resist temptation into his thinking. You did it before and he believed you'd never do anything like that. But he has your word for it, right? Sorry to say that it sounds like his romantic interest in you is losing strength a little more each day. Men are forever scared by their mate cheating.


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> The answer is as I've already said, it was exciting at the time. It's the truth.


So what you are essentially stating is that you will do things for no other reason than they are exciting and you felt the need to do it without thinking about anyone or anything else but your personal self gratification (no consequences either). These are not the thoughts and actions of someone that thinks about others. Saying you won't do it again means nothing when it is all about you and your satisfactions/ gratifications... When something new and exciting comes along, you seem like the type to be all over it and trying it. 

Please stopping ducking the true answers. Someone asked you what you have done and are doing to insure it doesn't happen again, and all you can say is "all of it for the last 2 years", yet in your OP you state that you make up each morning and thank your lucky stars and are glad he married you despite your cheating. Doesn't sound like the words of someone that is focused on the other party and their healing, but more on someone focused still on themselves solely.

Would you have stopped on your own, had you not been caught?? (As this sounds like the issues of someone with little regret to me, other than getting caught?) 

Did you tell the On my way! about the affair or take the cowards way out and let her suffer in silence?


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> I don't feel that I need to list all of my actions. He knows I would never consider doing anything like this again. He has all of my passwords. I no longer have my own friends, I gave them up (my initiative) so I can be with him whenever he isn't at work, so he never has to doubt me. 24/7, he knows where I am and who I'm with. Everything that someone in my situation should do, I have done, and more.


And that's all you can do.

But that is now. The desperation will subside at some point and you will probably get the "itch" again. Or later on you will resent having to give up friends, freedoms, whatever.

So unless what you have said you have done above carries on for the rest of your life, I don't see you shedding the fondness of the excitement you said you felt as a reason for cheating.


----------



## bryanp

I think you need to sit down with your husband and put all the cards on the table. Ask him why he married you? Ask him if he really does not want to have children....with you? I honestly do not know how any man could forgive:
1. 6 month physical affair while you were engaged to him.
2. 6 month physical affair putting him at risk for STD's while engaged to him which meant the both of you had to go and get tested.
3. You only stopped because you got caught and did not even have the decency to confess to him.
4. I am sure your husband probably still thinks if you were not caught you would have remained in the affair for a much longer period of time.
5. Honestly now, if the roles were reversed would you have still married him?
6. He must deep down think sexually that the OM was so much better than he was since you were willing to destroy your engagement for a more sexually fulfilling experience with the OM.

I do wish you luck but if the love is gone from him to you as you stated then I have no idea how he can get it back. He is humiliated beyond compression. My question is why he married you? Why would he marry you if he wanted to remain miserable. I just do not understand. Nevertheless I wish you luck in your quest.


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> I don't feel that I need to list all of my actions. He knows I would never consider doing anything like this again. He has all of my passwords. I no longer have my own friends, I gave them up (my initiative) so I can be with him whenever he isn't at work, so he never has to doubt me. 24/7, he knows where I am and who I'm with. Everything that someone in my situation should do, I have done, and more.


So if, you are not accountable to us, then why should we help you. If you are going to not answer to us for your indiscretions (of which you owe us nothing) then don't expect much from us in return. You have to give to get, remember. Like I have eluded to previously stop being so self invested and stuck on you and start thinking about others. If you aren't willing to help us with answers, then how can we help you with him?


----------



## Q tip

If OP has not broken down in tears reading about what the Betrayed Spouse goes through, she lacks empathy. 

Perhaps, tell us what your H thinks and feels. What he's experienced since DD until this afternoon.


----------



## theunforgiven

vellocet said:


> Sure you can. You wanted another man inside you and the act of sex with someone new was exciting to you, as you stated. .


You are so, so wrong. It wasn't about sex; it was mediocre at best. It was about power; the ability to influence a married man and make him do whatever I wanted i.e. even leave his wife. I know that is nutty, crazy, immoral etc. but I was immature then, I'm only 27 now. The married man was in his 50s.


----------



## drifting on

theunforgiven said:


> Does anyone really know why they do it? As I've said, it was exciting at the time. I will never, ever, do that again.


I will say this as gently as I possibly can, you know why. Excitement was one element of the affair. However you know why and if you don't want to say that answer her you aren't going to receive much help. I sure as hell hope you didn't say it was exciting to your husband as that's about as cold as having an affair while in a perfect relationship as you've stated. Look deep within yourself to find that answer, it's your beginning point to get what you want which is your husband. As for never doing it again, I hope you don't but not being able to answer why pretty much means you will be doing it again. You may think I'm rude, mean or just plain beating you up when you're down and I'm not. Imagine you didn't cheat but your husband did and then told you it was "exciting"!!!! Then he will say, honey, it will never happen again!!! I'm trying to help you they forgiven but you need to meet half way and figure out the answer to why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

Now we're getting somewhere...


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> You are so, so wrong. It wasn't about sex; it was mediocre at best. It was about power; the ability to influence a married man and make him do whatever I wanted i.e. even leave his wife. I know that is nutty, crazy, immoral etc. but I was immature then, I'm only 27 now. The married man was in his 50s.


Uhhh... did you happen to actually read what you posted here...?



theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


You're immature NOW.

ETA: Is anyone else thinking that this thread may have been "specifically designed to incite a strong reaction"...?


----------



## theunforgiven

bryanp said:


> Honestly now, if the roles were reversed would you have still married him?


Probably not. 




bryanp said:


> My question is why he married you? Why would he marry you if he wanted to remain miserable.


My husband married me because he knows the real me.


----------



## Q tip

The real you cheats because it's exciting and you love to manipulate. 

Right?

Perhaps an experienced guy cheated on his W with you and you got used until you were caught. How did this all start...?


----------



## ricky15100

*Re: Re: I don't want to lose him*



GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... did you happen to actually read what you posted here...?
> 
> 
> 
> You're immature NOW.
> 
> ETA: Is anyone else thinking that this thread may have been "specifically designed to incite a strong reaction"...?


Yup you nailed it!


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> You are so, so wrong. It wasn't about sex; it was mediocre at best. It was about power; the ability to influence a married man and make him do whatever I wanted i.e. even leave his wife. I know that is nutty, crazy, immoral etc. but I was immature then, I'm only 27 now. The married man was in his 50s.


Bullsh**. You may be telling the truth on the other stuff. But your lying if you say it wasn't about the sex, even in a small way. You don't want to admit having sex with someone other than your husband was exciting because of what it makes you. You'd rather say it was about other things, no matter how immoral they are.

Because if it was all about the power and the damage you could do, manipulation, etc, then you are a sociopath.


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> The real you cheats because it's exciting and you love to manipulate.
> 
> Right?
> 
> Perhaps an experienced guy cheated on his W with you and you got used until you were caught.



You make it sound as though I'm a repeat offender when I've had one affair. I'm over it. Done. Moving on. I have only one interest and that's my husband.


----------



## NoChoice

GusPolinski said:


> If you don't know why you did it, then how can you know that you won't do it again? After all, it's not like you had to deal with any actual consequences for your infidelity.
> 
> Right?!?


I have always found this answer to be quite troubling. Do you realize what you are saying? You acted with purpose and committed a heinous act against the person you claim to love more than any other human on the planet and when asked why you did it you say "I don't know". This answer is either evasive or it should scare the living daylights out of you.

If the answer is true then what else are you capable of doing for no reason? Were you sleep walking or in some sort of trance? You went about as a seemingly rational cognizant being perpetrating this act without realizing/understanding what you were doing? That is very unsettling to me.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> You make it sound as though I'm a repeat offender when I've had one affair. I'm over it. Done. Moving on. I have only one interest and that's my husband.


And he is fading from what you describe. His mind movies are terrorizing him btw...


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> You make it sound as though I'm a repeat offender when I've had one affair. I'm over it. Done. Moving on. *I have only one interest and that's my husband*.


Well you scratched your 7 year itch with the MM. So your husband will just have to deal with it when you start itching again.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> *You make it sound as though I'm a repeat offender when I've had one affair.* I'm over it. Done. Moving on. I have only one interest and that's my husband.


...for half a year. Given the "lifespan" of a typical, healthy male gamete, that's roughly 180 days spent with another man's seed swimming around inside you.


----------



## GusPolinski

vellocet said:


> Well you scratched your 7 year itch with the MM. So your husband will just have to deal with it when you start itching again.


She didn't even make it that far.


----------



## drifting on

theunforgiven said:


> You are so, so wrong. It wasn't about sex; it was mediocre at best. It was about power; the ability to influence a married man and make him do whatever I wanted i.e. even leave his wife. I know that is nutty, crazy, immoral etc. but I was immature then, I'm only 27 now. The married man was in his 50s.


Your right, now I know it will never happen again. You wrecked a family for that reason?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

A fifth option is an open marriage. After all, excitement with another is never to be tamed. 

If they were, we'd have happy marriages, we'd have strong boundaries and values keeping all those toxins, poisons and STDs from destroying the core family.

She admits to 6 months, but I wonder.


----------



## drifting on

theunforgiven said:


> Probably not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My husband married me because he knows the real me.


Gently asking here, what is your opinion of yourself? Obviously besides immature as you stated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Okay. Perhaps it is time to halt the feeding frenzy, or at least the tone. Your points have been made.


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> Probably not.
> 
> My husband married me because he knows the real me.


Wow, it is like looking into the eyes of me STBXW. She basically said the same that she wouldn't have stayed with me if I cheated and that I knew the real her and she was not hiding anything anymore.

Sorry but this is not the case. If you can't even figure out why you cheated (and take a hint as Gus pointed out, you need to read what you wrote. It was controlling and power driven, the need to be wanted by someone other than the one that had you and being able to control and make the OM do what you pleased. It was not just "excitement"). I bet this has lots to do with the current situation. You controlled and got your H but now he is acting as h wants and you can't control that behavior and are upset about it. 

Admit it, this is not about cheating or the current state of your marriage, but about the fact that you can't control your husband and make him do what you want, which is give you kids, stop being affected by you infidelity, and to treat you the way he did before. You have lost the power and are now upset and confused. Am I close, bet so??


----------



## drifting on

Squeakr said:


> Wow, it is like looking into the eyes of me STBXW. She basically said the same that she wouldn't have stayed with me if I cheated and that I knew the real her and she was not hiding anything anymore.
> 
> Sorry but this is not the case. If you can't even figure out why you cheated (and take a hint as Gus pointed out, you need to read what you wrote. It was controlling and power driven, the need to be wanted by someone other than the one that had you and being able to control and make the OM do what you pleased. It was not just "excitement"). I bet this has lots to do with the current situation. You controlled and got your H but now he is acting as h wants and you can't control that behavior and are upset about it.
> 
> Admit it, this is not about cheating or the current state of your marriage, but about the fact that you can't control your husband and make him do what you want, which is give you kids, stop being affected by you infidelity, and to treat you the way he did before. You have lost the power and are now upset and confused. Am I close, bet so??


This post isn't just to be liked, it's dead on. She lost control, power, and her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

GusPolinski said:


> Well, given that OP's husband _actually went ahead and married her *in spite of her "exciting", months-long affair*_, I'd say that he's off to a pretty bad start in that regard.


With anything, if it starts bad it usually never improves.


----------



## NotLikeYou

theunforgiven said:


> I am married to the most amazing man in the world. About two years ago, during our period of engagement, I stupidly had a six month affair with a work colleague. I begged and begged for forgiveness after I was caught. We married and I am thankful every morning when I wake up next to my husband. I know I am an awful person, and if I could turn back the clock, I would.
> 
> Despite the fact it has been two years, and that we are married, I know he doesn't love me like he used to love me. He always used to say "I love you" but seldom says it since the affair. He seems to be disconnected from me. Before he discovered my affair, he was planning to have children with me after we married, but now he says he isn't ready for children because he wants to focus on his career.
> 
> He is still nice to me, but it is different, much different than before. I know he is still hurting. I am scared he is going to leave me. I don't want anyone else, just him. How can I save my marriage?


Hi there, theunforgiven!

Sorry I'm late to the thread, I have a real job and work all day.

Defective Parachute Tester, in case you were wondering. Sometimes people need a parachute to not work properly, and that's where I come in.

I'd just like to take a moment and compliment everybody for piling on and not actually making any real effort to help or offer constructive advice- it's a TAM tradition to see red when cheaters post.

Fortunately, I usually see burnt orange, and its all good.

You mention giving your husband all your passwords, dropping your friends, and making efforts to let him know where you are so that he doesn't get worried.

These are all really good steps to take, and I applaud you for doing so. You get credit for doing these things right, although I don't believe anyone else has actually said as much.

I think the best thing you can do is have a frank and honest conversation with him.

Tell him your fears and concerns. Ask him if they are valid. Ask him what he wants from you, what else you can do to repair things.

I recommend lots of steak dinners and lots of sex, but your results may vary.

But regardless, it will be really frickin' important that you LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS. Don't hear what you want to hear, hear what he says.

If you get some actionable items out of the chat, then you have room to work and make things better.

Be prepared to hear that no, you can't recover from what you have done to him.

If you get that message, that you can't make things better, it may be better for both of you to end things.

If you haven't gotten counseling, you should look into it. You need to understand the things inside you that caused you to cheat and sabotage your future marriage.

And having an "oops" pregnancy is a bad idea, as everyone else has said. Really bad idea. Don't do it.

I'm not really sympathetic to cheaters. It always triggers me back to that fateful day when I found those polaroids of my partner with the circus midgets.

But as a leader of men, I have to rise above the angst and negativity and set a better example, and in this case that means giving you the best advice possible and urging everyone else to as well.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

GusPolinski said:


> ETA: Is anyone else thinking that this thread may have been "specifically designed to incite a strong reaction"...?


Yep. 

If we don't feed them they will usually go away.


----------



## NoChoice

unforgiven,
I now understand why you did what you did. It was a game to you, a conquest of sorts, as others have said, a power trip. Forget your then fiance for a moment and look at what you did to another entire family. The wife, children, all of it. You played a cat and mouse game with several other lives hanging in the balance and all for what? To feed some childish need for control, excitement and the facade of boosted self esteem. Look at what you can do, look at the influence you had over this guy, he is putty in your hands to do with as you please. How powerful are you......but it was all fake.

I certainly hope you can see now that it was all an illusion. Everything you thought you were getting from it was all imaginary. All you effectively did was wield "power" over a cheating dirtbag, twice your age, who sacrificed his family for a piece of tail while all along the stable, dedicated man who pledged you his heart was betrayed.

I am going to ask you to do something for the sake of your marriage and your H. Please consider looking deeply inside yourself and recognizing if any of that person remains within you. This will require a level of honesty you may not be capable of but you must try. If any remnants of that person exists, and I fear she does, then you must set about removing her completely. Counseling, therapy, finding Jesus, whatever help you need and whatever it takes to remove her entirely from your soul because if you do not she will rise again and her effects will be even more devastating. I do not ask this lightly because I sincerely believe she will ultimately destroy any relationship you are involved in.

Your H may very well see bits of her when he looks at you and therefore his angst in starting a family together. I believe that when you remove her completely your H may look at you differently and see the woman he wants to have a family with. That is the only way it can work. Considering bringing children into what you have now is a glimmer of that other woman peeking through. Remove her! Just consider my words and good luck to you.


----------



## BobSimmons

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


Not buying this..


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... did you happen to actually read what you posted here...?
> 
> 
> 
> You're immature NOW.
> 
> ETA: Is anyone else thinking that this thread may have been "specifically designed to incite a strong reaction"...?


cough cough


----------



## LongWalk

Unforgiven,

You are very brave to come here to TAM which is not very forgiving when it comes to infidelity. You have taken some hard shots and not run away, so I think you can profit from being here.

1) Your husband will never see you the same way as before the betrayal. However, it is possible that over time he will love you more profoundly. Successful reconciliation is possible. It is a legitimate goal.

2) You had an affair with a old geezer, whom, I presume, had some had wealth or power, something to compensate for his physical decline.

You enjoyed seducing him. Do you seduce your husband? Did you go through hysterical bonding? Does you husband think that you did other things with OM that you don't do with him?

3) No friends
I don't see having no friends as positive. You should not have male that you meet without him.

4) Having a baby means responsibility
Your husband may no longer be keen on facing it with you. If having a family is important to you, now is the time. If you are not enjoying a good sex life now, the baby may make things worse. You may need to end your marriage if your husband refuses to have children.

5) You cannot make a person love you by begging or pleading. Avoid being needy. That is selfish. Your affair was also selfish. Go to IC to gain insight into why you are this way.

6) Become happy in your own skin. Your husband will love you more if you lover yourself in a healthy way.

There is thread now by White Rose, a woman who cheated. Her husband divorced her and remarried her, but not he has cheated and is leaving her after two and half years of reconciliation. She did not give him passionate dirty sex. For the OM it was on the menu but not for him. Now she has come to TAM but the prospects for their marriage poor.

7) Do you work?
Do you contribute economically so that your husband's life is easier?

8) Have you offered to divorce your husband if it would be in his best interests?

9) Have you apologized to friends and family? Some believe exposure is important to demonstrate true remorse. Some BS do no want the affair to become public knowledge. This a sensitive subject.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER




----------



## GusPolinski

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


>


Yeah...


----------



## theunforgiven

Thank you LongWalk and NotLikeYou. Your comments have been taken on board and appreciated. There seem to be quite a few haters/trolls on this forum, and I wasn't prepared for the attacks. Nevertheless, I will keep being the best wife I can be and hope that things improve.


----------



## warlock07

theunforgiven said:


> I don't feel that I need to list all of my actions. He knows I would never consider doing anything like this again. He has all of my passwords. I no longer have my own friends, I gave them up (my initiative) so I can be with him whenever he isn't at work, so he never has to doubt me. 24/7, he knows where I am and who I'm with. Everything that someone in my situation should do, I have done, and more.


Did you push him into the marriage?

did you threaten suicide?

What exactly happened when found out the texts? Does the OM's wife know?


----------



## theunforgiven

warlock07 said:


> Did you push him into the marriage?
> 
> did you threaten suicide?
> 
> What exactly happened when found out the texts? Does the OM's wife know?



Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:

*How can I save my marriage?*

I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


----------



## drifting on

Theunforgiven

Let me first say I am sorry for my sarcasm. I was not having a good day and actually triggered hard today. I do my best to keep my sarcasm from entering my posts and stay away from TAM if I'm triggering. I didn't do that today and instead took it out on you. I am deeply sorry for making your situation worse.

I went back and read your opening post. You are seeking help on how to keep your husband. I don't know you or your husband so the best I can offer is what I would need from you to stay. First would be why you cheated when your husband is amazing. Second I would need to know why it lasted for six months. Third I would need to know how your husband found out. If you confessed bonus points for you. If your husband discovered then are you sorry you got caught?

I would need to know every detail witbout using the word exciting. That would make me put you on the curb. Next I would question why it was so important for you to ruin the OM and his family. I know what you are thinking, more sarcasm. It's not. If I was your husband I would need to know what I am sleeping with at night. Is she going to try to ruin me like she did him? So I can understand his not wanting to have kids with you. It wouldn't make me love you more, in fact I would most likely resent you for trying to trap me with children now.

So can you see besides the affair, his loving you, a perfect relationship as does cribbed by you, his hesitation? You even said had he cheated you wouldn't have married him. From what I can see in your posts I don't see regret, resourcefulness, or you trying with actions to win him back. Your words alone have been cold. If I'm missing something here please correct me, but from your posts you don't seem to be working very hard at making him feel comfortable. I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


So you have offered little to no information on what you have done to help him heal, what led to the affair, how he has really changed, and what happened after the affair was discovered but yet you want us to give you information on how to change things to make your marriage different than what it currently is? Am I missing something or are we supposed to be mind readers? I would suggest you just place a bunch of ideas to try on a dart board and throw darts at them to select options to try as that is about what we are doing here, just taking a stab in the dark. Fighting us on this makes this no easier to get the help you seek. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

Please see a counselor who specializes with infidelity. There are lot of angry BS's here. some vent on WS's cause they didn't have the whatever to tell their own cheaters. Its easier to blast a stranger. Still, those people were like your spouse. As hateful, angry, and harsh as they are, they were not always this way. This is what infidelity does to people. They are your husband, metaphorically speaking. Behold what you have wrought. 

Now, stop with the crazy. No friends as some form of penance? Crazy. If the friends supported or covered your affair, then good riddance. If they were not cohorts, then bad move. You want kids to make him love you....CRAZY and still the same mindset that you gave for your affair. you power tripped on making a man want to leave his family for you.. Now, you want to make a man love you and stay with you by bringing a child into this world? Kids are not props. That you thought to do this shows how much help you need and how badly you do NOT need kids now or near future and a kid does not need to be dragged into this mess. Its cruel. 

Get you some help. tell a professional your plans. PLEASE


----------



## drifting on

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


Theunforgiven

It is relevant to your situation, it's relevant to how we can advise. But you show attitude in this post which will get you nowhere. That is something most posters have picked up on in your posts and why you are getting beat up. I'm saying this gently so not to offend you. I'm trying to help you now although I didn't help earlier. You need to understand how your husband is feeling. He feels like many other betrayed posters here. Can you not see that? If you want help people will help you. Nobody knows you so they may ask questions, it's up to you how much you want help. If you do answer them so a better picture is displayed.

I will give you an example. At MC I brought a kids puzzle to session, I lay all the pieces out on the table, I asked my WW to put it together. She did. I took out several pieces and asked what went there in your affair? In other words I don't have the full picture of what happened. Why is that piece missing? Because you think I will divorce you? It's the same for everyone here. We don't have the full picture. When questions are asked you display an attitude. How is anyone supposed to help?


----------



## jim123

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


Get to IC and fix you. Once you get a handle on you, go to MC.

Be very attentive. Make sure you desire him.

Communicate.

Buy every book on how to heal your spouse after an affair.


----------



## EI

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.



TAM Translation: "I would appreciate it if posters would tell me what I want to hear, as I'm only happy when I'm in control of the situation. If you aren't going to say what I want you to say, then say nothing at all. After all, isn't it obvious that my happiness is the only thing that truly matters here. The feelings of my AP's wife only mattered inasmuch as it was thrilling to know that I had the power to make her husband betray her for me. (Betcha you weren't his first, nor will you be his last) My husband's lack of desire to have a child with me is not as important as my desire to have a child. So, since I am in control of my fertility, I'm thinking about having his baby whether he wants to have a baby with me or not. If things don't work out, well, I've got a baby and he's on the hook for child support for the next 18 years." 


Sorry, this is TAM, you don't get what you want, you get what you need..... the uncensored, often biased, but cold hard truth. Of course, there may be several different opinions about what exactly is the truth, but if you put it all together, shake it up, somewhere in the middle of all of this advice is the truth. And, the truth is, you are very selfish, very immature, very narcissistic, and nowhere near ready to be a good wife, much less the mother of a completely innocent child. Please do not trick your husband into having a baby that he clearly does not desire to have with you at this time.


----------



## ConanHub

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


You apparently just want what you want which is why you cheated in the first place. His questions were extremely valid. You still have no damn idea of what you did.

Your H should not have married you. He was wondering what pressure you brought to bare on your fiance.

Why did I tap on this thread? Damn mobile did not show CWI!

Have you ever figured out what the hell is wrong with you? Who does this sh!T and even considers themselves normal?

Sky diving without a parachute is exciting too, no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jnj express

hey unforgiven---I do not know what kind of a sex life you and your H have at this point in time---I assume, it was passionate and hot when you were engaged, before your H found out, about your straying-----1st was sex with your H not gratifying while you were engaged, is that the reason you went physical with another man-----then on to now, if your sex life is not gratifying now, and it may get worse---what do you intend to do----as sex is a large /major part of any mge.

If you can't make things hot and passionate, or at least very satisfying, do you intend to again stray, looking for hot passion, or will you then D. This is gonna be a major stumbling block to your mge. if you can't get it straightened out!!!!!!


----------



## NoChoice

NoChoice said:


> unforgiven,
> I now understand why you did what you did. It was a game to you, a conquest of sorts, as others have said, a power trip. Forget your then fiance for a moment and look at what you did to another entire family. The wife, children, all of it. You played a cat and mouse game with several other lives hanging in the balance and all for what? To feed some childish need for control, excitement and the facade of boosted self esteem. Look at what you can do, look at the influence you had over this guy, he is putty in your hands to do with as you please. How powerful are you......but it was all fake.
> 
> I certainly hope you can see now that it was all an illusion. Everything you thought you were getting from it was all imaginary. All you effectively did was wield "power" over a cheating dirtbag, twice your age, who sacrificed his family for a piece of tail while all along the stable, dedicated man who pledged you his heart was betrayed.
> 
> I am going to ask you to do something for the sake of your marriage and your H. Please consider looking deeply inside yourself and recognizing if any of that person remains within you. This will require a level of honesty you may not be capable of but you must try. If any remnants of that person exists, and I fear she does, then you must set about removing her completely. Counseling, therapy, finding Jesus, whatever help you need and whatever it takes to remove her entirely from your soul because if you do not she will rise again and her effects will be even more devastating. I do not ask this lightly because I sincerely believe she will ultimately destroy any relationship you are involved in.
> 
> Your H may very well see bits of her when he looks at you and therefore his angst in starting a family together. I believe that when you remove her completely your H may look at you differently and see the woman he wants to have a family with. That is the only way it can work. Considering bringing children into what you have now is a glimmer of that other woman peeking through. Remove her! Just consider my words and good luck to you.


I would like to amend this based on your latest posts. The dark woman inside you isn't peeking through she is still very much in active control of your actions. You are not familiar with the definitions of remorse, contrite and sorry much less their expression in your marriage. You wanted to come here and gain approval from us to manipulate your H with a child so you can get what you want. It is still very much about getting what you want, at all costs isn't it? No one can help you until you want to be helped and you don't even see that you need help. Sad.


----------



## RV9

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


Don't do it. Nothing is more damaging than a child without consent. I'm trapped because of a child. It's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy.

You aren't getting 'it'. You won't get it till you break him down to nothing. Maybe then you'd get it or move to someone else. A child would be a tool for you to manipulate the situation. Your husband stayed out of obligation and maybe lots of manipulation at your end. Suicide threats and all. You haven't changed. You're trying to control the situation. You want it to be back to what it was before. Then your affair behavior pattern would emerge. 

Find out why you did it. Work on yourself. Don't be someone who can bring only misery to the lives of others.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Perhaps you should give some thought to the possibility there might be another woman in need of excitement and power over a married man who targets your husband. Hard as it may be for you to believe you aren't the only one capable of getting a married man to screw her, in fact it's not that big of an accomplishment. This could give you a little more empathy, which I think would benefit you. There is a slight air of selfishness and entitlement as well as a high opinion of yourself in your posts, and your hb probably senses that as well. This is further supported by this idea that a baby will somehow erase consequences. If you could address it perhaps it will help heal your marriage. And also consider that your married man very likely wasn't going to leave his wife, you were simply a cheap screw. You aren't that important, and the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be and the sooner you'll be a fully contributing partner. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

EI said:


> TAM Translation: "I would appreciate it if posters would tell me what I want to hear, as I'm only happy when I'm in control of the situation. If you aren't going to say what I want you to say, then say nothing at all. After all, isn't it obvious that my happiness is the only thing that truly matters here. The feelings of my AP's wife only mattered inasmuch as it was thrilling to know that I had the power to make her husband betray her for me. (Betcha you weren't his first, nor will you be his last) My husband's lack of desire to have a child with me is not as important as my desire to have a child. So, since I am in control of my fertility, I'm thinking about having his baby whether he wants to have a baby with me or not. If things don't work out, well, I've got a baby and he's on the hook for child support for the next 18 years."
> 
> 
> Sorry, this is TAM, you don't get what you want, you get what you need..... the uncensored, often biased, but cold hard truth. Of course, there may be several different opinions about what exactly is the truth, but if you put it all together, shake it up, somewhere in the middle of all of this advice is the truth. And, the truth is, you are very selfish, very immature, very narcissistic, and nowhere near ready to be a good wife, much less the mother of a completely innocent child. Please do not trick your husband into having a baby that he clearly does not desire to have with you at this time.


:iagree:


----------



## wmn1

regarding Longwalk's post, White Rose's affair was extensive and then she re-cheated plus did things with the OM she didn't do for her husband. His affair was brief and he has hit a wall. The POSOM she cheated with was a scumbag (not that it matters how horrible a guy he was) so that case, IMO, is more flagrant than yours. Your case is very abd too but you acknowledged that long before your husband was going to leave you. It's not like White Rose had a brief affair and then worked hard at reconciliation for 2.5 years. She affaired for much of that time and only is trying reconciliation now. She gaslighted and burned the guy to the ground and only when it was evident he was going to leave and after a brief affair himself which he abruptly ended, he could no longer face the lies and betrayal. IMO, while your case was insidious, it wasn't as bad as White Rose's. 

Not trashing White Rose too badly or at least not intending to but since it was brought up in this thread, I would suggest you have a chance because your H married you anyway despite your infidelity and your actions were bad but there have been worse that other guys have dealt with and still lingered on in the marriage. 

Having a kid to make things right is the worst thing you can do


----------



## wmn1

and you owe your husband everything at this point. the affair was completely on you and you own the damage. Get a gameplan and work it to save your marriage and understand his needs.


----------



## toonaive

You lost him when you had the affair. He will never feel the love for you, he had before your affair. It is reprehensible, in the least, of you to think you can get him to impregnate you, have a child, then think you can use that child to get your husband to love you again. A sense of responsibility does not equal love. If you have any sense of dignity left, you will let him go, let him take what he wants, and start a new life with someone who wont disrespect him like you have. You arent in a place to be married.


----------



## warlock07

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


Saving marriage involves you and your actions a lot. Did my questions hit too close to home ? Your defensive reaction tells something. 

My intention in asking those questions. Is he with you only because he is worried about you ?


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> Thank you LongWalk and NotLikeYou. Your comments have been taken on board and appreciated. There seem to be quite a few haters/trolls on this forum, and I wasn't prepared for the attacks. Nevertheless, I will keep being the best wife I can be and hope that things improve.


Honestly, it's usually not my M.O. to lead w/ the sledgehammers and 2x4's, but when I read stuff like this...

"Hi everyone, I feel like my husband just doesn't love me like he used to prior to my affair... do you think that 'accidentally' having his baby would get him to love me more?"

...followed by this...

"I don't know why I had the affair, but it was fun and exciting to see if I could get a married man to leave his wife and family for me."

...well, it just sort of fuels the rage, y'know? Plus, there's just something in your words that indicates a certain sense of entitlement, along w/ a complete lack of understanding or appreciation w/ respect to how thoroughly your affair ravaged your husband and his love for you. And, given some of the replies that others have posted, it would seem that I'm not alone in thinking that. Hell, there are even a handful of women (and former WW's) dog-piling onto your bullsh*t as well.

Sooo... while I'm (sort of) sorry if some of what I've contributed to this thread up to this point has been difficult for you to read, I can't quite bring myself to apologize for it... and especially not if it helps to open your eyes w/ respect to just how destructive your behavior has been.

And now for some truths...

*** You're a manipulator, plain and simple. I say "are" instead of "were", because you're still at it. You were manipulating OM, and now you're looking to manipulate your husband... _*but with a baby!!!*_ This is very destructive behavior, and it needs to go away. Like 5 minutes ago yesterday.

*** Each and every thing that everyone has said to you in this thread is something that goes through your husband's mind every day. Even if he won't admit it, even if he doesn't talk about it aloud (at least w/ you), and _even if he flatly denies it_, you can be assured that he thinks about it EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. You were once special to him, but not anymore. When he found out that you'd been f*cking another man (and a married man, no less), you became tainted to him.

Why, you ask? Well, there are tons of reasons, but the two primary reasons are (a) he learned that you had no problems giving yourself to another man while in a relationship w/ him, and (b) he saw how little respect you have (or, hopefully, _HAD_) for the institution of marriage. Prior to learning these things about you, you were his, and his alone... but no more.

What I can't figure out is why he actually went through w/ the wedding anyway. But oh well... what's done is done.

*** As I'm sure you're already aware, the "but we weren't married at the time" bullsh*t is exactly that -- BULLSH*T. You were in a committed, exclusive relationship w/ each other, had been together for roughly 3 1/2 - 4 years at the time, and were engaged to be married. So basically you were married _but hadn't yet *been* married_.

*** Much of what I've read thus far indicates a very passive attempt at reconciliation. What _proactive_ measures have you taken? Have the two of you been to marriage counseling together? Have you read any books on infidelity? This one is pretty good, and comes highly recommended...

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald: 9781450553322: Amazon.com: Books

As indicated on Amazon's website, the book is available in paperback, e-book (Kindle), and audiobook formats. It is also available for free in PDF format at the author's website (http://www.lindajmacdonald.com), though I'm not able to pull it up at the moment.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> Thank you LongWalk and NotLikeYou. Your comments have been taken on board and appreciated. There seem to be quite a few haters/trolls on this forum


Trolls? I don't think you know what it means. 

Haters? Its a badge of honor coming from some

What did you really expect? You come here telling us all how the reason you cheating because it was exciting and you even liked the idea of trying to steal a MM away from his wife, and were even contemplating having a baby as a way to get him to stay emotionally attached in the marriage. Again, knowing all of this, what did you really expect?


----------



## Dad&Hubby

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


What kind of answers are you looking for.

The key to saving a marriage...from a WW perspective.

Step 1. Make his favorite dish every wednesday
Step 2. Give me a mind blowing bj on Sat, Sun, Tues and Thurs.
Step 3. Don't argue with him

It's not that easy.

Saving a marriage after infidelity is a very complex and varied issue. What MIGHT save your marriage won't save another and vice versa. The "line of questions" is to probe the problems. It's to try and figure out where this started.

As an analogy...You built a house on an awful foundation and you're asking how to straighten the crown molding...

What the questions are doing is trying to figure out what foundation you used....THEN how to fix said foundation, then worry about the structural framing, then cosmetics inside etc.

The fact that you're fighting some pretty harmless questions tells me that you're looking for a quick fix, not a correct one.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> Your line of questioning has absolutely nothing to do with my original question and post, which was:
> 
> *How can I save my marriage?*
> 
> I would appreciate it if posters could either offer positive constructive advice, or say nothing at all.


Ok, but question is, will you take the advice?

So here it goes:

1) do NOT have a baby as a means of saving the marriage. That isn't fair to your husband and most of all, to the children involved.

2) counseling

3) complete disclosure from this point on. Privacy with regards to such things as social media accounts, emails, etc, are no longer appropriate. Are you willing to do this for the remainder of your life together?

4) As someone who wouldn't stay with someone that has cheated, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes. Question to myself is, what would it take for me to want to stay in a marriage with someone that has cheated? No blameshifting for one, which you aren't doing and I commend you for that. That is a rarity here at TAM. 

Girls nights out would be a dealbreaker for someone that has cheated on me(not saying you are a GNOer, just saying).

If he triggers, let him vent. And understand it will be a LONG time for him to be comfortable with you again, IF he ever gets comfortable again.

If he has questions, you answer them. 

Suggest going out and doing a regular "date night" and show him you want to be with him.

That's all you can do that I can think of.

But most important, as I've stated, NEVER make him feel like your cheating was his fault, and again, you aren't doing that and that is good.

But I will comment on your defensiveness towards what you are being told here. You can't come into a forum where people have been hurt by people just like you, tell a story such as yours, and expect sunshine to be blown up your back end.

Most of us relate to your husband. And when you hear from us, we are more than likely thinking what your husband is thinking. THIS is the kind of hurt and anger that is caused by what you did. I understand you don't like some of the comments. Understandable. But take it to heart. We are just like your husband and our attitudes are probably not far off from his.


----------



## Jellybeans

badmemory said:


> Your husband did agree to marry you after knowing about the cheating.


Yeah he did.



CH said:


> Push him to get back into the marriage or get out. 3rd option is to keep the status quo where both parties are miserable.


Pretty much. These are your options.



theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children an*d I think it will make him love me again.*


Please do not use a baby, a human being, as a band-aid for your marriage, or as a ploy to "make someone love" you again. Seriously, a horrible idea.


----------



## vellocet

GusPolinski said:


> Honestly, it's usually not my M.O. to lead w/ the sledgehammers and 2x4's, but when I read stuff like this...





> "I don't know why I had the affair, but it was fun and *exciting to see if I could get a married man to leave his wife and family for me.*"



Yes, this was what I was saying earlier. Especially with regards to the absolute selfishness of the bolded part, let alone the cheating itself.

Someone thought it was exciting to try to get a MM to leave his wife and kids?? And we are the haters?


----------



## ArmyofJuan

theunforgiven said:


> 4th option: Have his baby. I know it sounds wrong, but I really want children and I think it will make him love me again.


I know a woman with 5 children by 5 different men, it doesn't work.

I would bet dollars to donuts your H regrets marrying you and you'll most likely be D within 5 years. There isn't anything you can do about it, the damage is done and the resentment is only going to build over time.

He probably went through with the M out of desperation and maybe during the hysterical bonding stage but those are only temporary. I'm sure if you asked him if he he'd marry you again you might not like the answer.


----------



## Q tip

ArmyofJuan said:


> I know a woman with 5 children by 5 different men, it doesn't work.
> 
> I would bet dollars to donuts your H regrets marrying you and you'll most likely be D within 5 years. There isn't anything you can do about it, the damage is done and the resentment is only going to build over time.
> 
> He probably went through with the M out of desperation and maybe during the hysterical bonding stage but those are only temporary. I'm sure if you asked him if he he'd marry you again you might not like the answer.


One woman, 5 children of 5 different men, living on government welfare should give every woman a powerful incentive to find a decent guy and take care of him.*

Where is the remotest amount of common sense these days...

*read that online somewhere.


----------



## Q tip

Wanna keep you H happy and around??.

Keep his stomach full and balls empty.


Hey, Miss Manipulator, you cannot force or make someone fall in love with you. You become the right person. I do not believe, from your juvenile logic, you are anywhere near being this person.

Work on you. Get IC and MC. Take action. You have enough info to do something. Go do it.


----------



## Squeakr

Dad&Hubby said:


> The fact that you're fighting some pretty harmless questions tells me that you're looking for a quick fix, not a correct one.


I would guess that she is wanting an "easy" fix with the least amount of effort and change being required on her part, and not one that is quick or correct?


I wonder if the wedding was already planned, paid for, and arrangements made, and the H felt that he had to go through with it for the financial burden if nothing else (as they were engaged when it was discovered, and maybe it was too late to back out by his estimation)??


----------



## Squeakr

Q tip said:


> Wanna keep you H happy and around??.
> 
> Keep his stomach full and balls empty.



:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

If only it were that easy. The problem is that a woman can do this to several men at once (she was doing this to her H when they were engaged and doing the same to OM). This does nothing to address betrayal and healing needed, which is why sex is not enough to save a dying marriage.


----------



## theunforgiven

I understand that many of you have been hurt by people like myself. I am sincerely sorry for what you have been through/going through. But I never did anything to you personally. Although again, I am sorry for you.

Having a set of lived experiences doesn't qualify someone to be an expert in that area. Many of you are micro-analyzing every word, trying to find evidence to apportion blame. Well, you don't need to do that, I know what I did was horrible. I admitted everything two years ago. I'm at the stage of moving forwards. I'm already doing most things which people have recommended. For example: meals, sex, gave up friends, closed social media accounts and gave him passwords etc., telling him I'm sorry and that he means the world to me (because he does). I f**ked up big time. I KNOW THAT ALREADY. 

Some of you have directly accused me of threatening my husband into marriage. I begged him, yes. Threatened him? Absolutely not. My earlier comment about having a baby was a spur of the moment remark, or a vent. While I do want to have children, I am not going to tread down that path.

Regarding counselling, I have suggested this to my husband but he isn't interested. At one point, I managed to organize an appointment for him but he changed his mind at the last minute. This is something that I will discuss again with him as I think it will help him heal. I am concerned that, in recent months, he stopped going through my phone, doesn't look through my computer anymore etc. Nor does he ring to check up on me like he used to. In the first stage, I couldn't even visit my sister without him tagging along, which I fully understood and had no problem with. Now, he doesn't even ask what time I'll be back when I do go to see her. So I think counselling is well overdue and it is something I will work on.


----------



## Jellybeans

Q tip said:


> Wanna keep you H happy and around??.
> 
> Keep his stomach full and balls empty.


And they say romance is dead!


----------



## naiveonedave

Un - good luck. without having more info, it appears your H maybe in depression over this. He needs counciling on his own, too


----------



## Q tip

You know, I am thinking this master manipulator intended to cheat and get caught, thinking she can further manipulate her H and become an immense mental burden. Her desire for that pedestal is immense.

Entitled, Passive aggressive sociopathic b!tch. Sorry, I have not seen anything from OP showing me anything but the pure intent of her past actions. It just she hurt H so badly, he's not living up to her entitled perception of him or life in general after being caught. 

If she has not cried daily over this tragedy, it's part of her willfulness. I don't get that she feels anything. All part of her fairly land nightmare. 

Zero remorse, empathy - how she reacts to TAM folks. Wow. I fear a mental train wreck here.

She shows no plan, actions, thoughts, feelings. Sorrow? Nowhere in sight. 

She fears now she is losing him. I think she wants to - Or maybe she underestimated his reaction and it's not going the way her entitled hamster desires Now she comes running to TAM, complete strangers instead of people she knows. Bet she never exposed this to anyone, and prevented her H from telling anyone.

The PA may even have been fake. Just in her mind. 

Just no way I can determine anything from OPs words. Just as she wants it to be on TAM.


----------



## theunforgiven

Regarding blame. Here is my rant for the day.

There are two persons at fault in the affair. In my situation -

A man, in his 50s, married for 25 years, with three children and now one grandchild, holds a position of authority in a corporate environment.

A female, in her 20s, engaged to her boyfriend, she is at the bottom of the corporate ladder.

When that female receives constant praise from the older man, in front of her other colleagues, when she is made to feel on top of the world every single day at work, of course this creates an atmosphere for things to go wrong. Especially when there is an imbalance of power and when others in the workplace do not recognize this and leave her vulnerable. 

I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did. But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.


----------



## Q tip

Squeakr said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> If only it were that easy. The problem is that a woman can do this to several men at once (she was doing this to her H when they were engaged and doing the same to OM). This does nothing to address betrayal and healing needed, which is why sex is not enough to save a dying marriage.


Yah, not for her, just general TAM humor.


----------



## Ripper

Anger, resentment, along with a dose of depression. Chances are, this wasn't dealt with to his satisfaction in the beginning and is now a festering wound. Understand, physical infidelity is a deal breaker for most guys. Maybe not immediately, but eventually the nagging feeling that you aren't a woman's number one, a sack-less cuckold, or just a plain patsy becomes too much for the ego to bear.

I'm not a fan of counseling, most are woefully unprepared simps when it comes to dealing with infidelity. Talk to him, tell him exactly what you are telling us on this forum and maybe you can make some headway. Just realize that things will never be what they were before. He will never look at you the same as he did when you were "his girl".

I wish I had more to offer but honestly, if he was my friend, I would have dropped him off naked in Botswana to prevent him walking down that wedding aisle.


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> You know, I am thinking this master manipulator intended to cheat and get caught, thinking she can further manipulate her H and become an immense mental burden. Her desire for that pedestal is immense.
> 
> Entitled, Passive aggressive sociopathic b!tch. Sorry, I have not seen anything from OP showing me anything but the pure intent of her past actions. It just she hurt H so badly, he's not living up to her entitled perception of him or life in general after being caught.
> 
> If she has not cried daily over this tragedy, it's part of her willfulness. I don't get that she feels anything. All part of her fairly land nightmare.
> 
> Zero remorse, empathy - how she reacts to TAM folks. Wow. I fear a mental train wreck here.
> 
> She shows no plan, actions, thoughts, feelings. Sorrow? Nowhere in sight.
> 
> She fears now she is losing him. I think she wants to - Or maybe she underestimated his reaction and it's not going the way her entitled hamster desires Now she comes running to TAM, complete strangers instead of people she knows. Bet she never exposed this to anyone, and prevented her H from telling anyone.
> 
> The PA may even have been fake. Just in her mind.
> 
> Just no way I can determine anything from OPs words. Just as she wants it to be on TAM.



Wow. Another attempt at dissecting my comments which probably shows more about you than it does me. I'm not going to get in an online scrap with you, but I'd just like to say you know nothing about me. Your summary of me is so far in the wrong direction that it is literally funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> Regarding blame. Here is my rant for the day.
> 
> There are two persons at fault in the affair. In my situation -
> 
> A man, in his 50s, married for 25 years, with three children and now one grandchild, holds a position of authority in a corporate environment.
> 
> A female, in her 20s, engaged to her boyfriend, she is at the bottom of the corporate ladder.
> 
> When that female receives constant praise from the older man, in front of her other colleagues, when she is made to feel on top of the world every single day at work, of course this creates an atmosphere for things to go wrong. Especially when there is an imbalance of power and when others in the workplace do not recognize this and leave her vulnerable.
> 
> I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did. But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.


WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Your spread your legs for another. You gave oral to another. What else? Your boundaries suck, judgement's in the sh!tter. He did not accidentally fall on you with both your clothes off. 

Why don't you sue him and his company? Excellent way a manipulator gets to the top. Yah, dats da ticket up.

Look, you need help. Go to IC, maybe your H will go later -- If you show improvement that is.

Understand you're the perp, you H the victim. Not the way you planned, but the way it is.

I'd say free him. Let him find a decent woman who won't cheat. If you love him, that is.


----------



## Q tip

theunforgiven said:


> Wow. Another attempt at dissecting my comments which probably shows more about you than it does me. I'm not going to get in an online scrap with you, but I'd just like to say you know nothing about me. Your summary of me is so far in the wrong direction that it is literally funny. Thanks for brightening up my day.


Exactly what I thought your response to be. Down to the letter. Sorry if I got too close.

So your admitted cheating for 6 exciting months is to be discounted now... Was it really 6 months. 

Just trying to get past your defenses so you can internalize something. Not to make you a punching bag here, but you're pretty thick skinned. Just trying to peel back the layers to find you.


----------



## LongWalk

The was a thread or two by RefusetobePlayed and his WW. They successfully reconciled. She was a young MBA type who was bedded by senior management. She felt sick and degraded.

You might PM them for help.

Be good to your husband. Treat yourself with respect. He doesn't need a phony doormat.

Is your sex life better or worse now?


----------



## theunforgiven

Q tip said:


> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG


Did you actually *read* what I wrote? Particularly the part where I said:

*I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did.*

Anyways, I'm done for now. I can't be bothered writing my thoughts and feelings on here, only to have them purposely misinterpreted and then judged completely inaccurately.


----------



## Jellybeans

theunforgiven said:


> I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did. But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.


So am I. And I have never had an affair with my partnered boss. Just saying.

You may not think it doesn't appear you are deflecting, but you are. It's one thing to say "I accept responsibility" but another to day 'I accept responsibility but he was praising me and I was left vulnerable and the workplace should have recognized it."

I think the way you are framing things is coloring how people perceive your comments. They are your words.

With that said, the main issue is that you are unhappy with things in your marriage. Have you actually spoken to your husband about this? Because the answer was right in the first page that CH posted: either things can continue the same and you will both be unhappy or you need to address it and work on it as a team. Your husband behaving ways that are unloving toward you after he chose to marry you after knowing you cheated does not make a happy marriage; your offering to get pregnant in order to get someone to "love" you is super duper jumping into crazy territory/horrible bad-decision. Also, if things stay the same after you talk to him about it, then you need to decide if you want to stay in a marriage such as the one you are in. Because you do not sound happy with the way things are. At all.

Edited: just saw your comment above. If you are done with TAM, then I wish you well no matter what and again, will reiterate, you need to talk to him about it. If nothing changes, then decide what you want: stay in unhappy marriage or get out.


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> I understand that many of you have been hurt by people like myself. I am sincerely sorry for what you have been through/going through. But I never did anything to you personally. Although again, I am sorry for you.
> 
> Having a set of lived experiences doesn't qualify someone to be an expert in that area. Many of you are micro-analyzing every word, trying to find evidence to apportion blame. Well, you don't need to do that, I know what I did was horrible. I admitted everything two years ago. I'm at the stage of moving forwards. I'm already doing most things which people have recommended. For example: meals, sex, gave up friends, closed social media accounts and gave him passwords etc., telling him I'm sorry and that he means the world to me (because he does). I f**ked up big time. I KNOW THAT ALREADY.
> 
> Some of you have directly accused me of threatening my husband into marriage. I begged him, yes. Threatened him? Absolutely not. My earlier comment about having a baby was a spur of the moment remark, or a vent. While I do want to have children, I am not going to tread down that path.
> 
> Regarding counselling, I have suggested this to my husband but he isn't interested. At one point, I managed to organize an appointment for him but he changed his mind at the last minute. This is something that I will discuss again with him as I think it will help him heal. I am concerned that, in recent months, he stopped going through my phone, doesn't look through my computer anymore etc. Nor does he ring to check up on me like he used to. In the first stage, I couldn't even visit my sister without him tagging along, which I fully understood and had no problem with. Now, he doesn't even ask what time I'll be back when I do go to see her. So I think counselling is well overdue and it is something I will work on.


This is all good, but you should not be ready to be at the stage of moving forward. Just because you are ready, doesn't mean he is, nor should you be forcing the issue. We are giving advice based upon experience (yes it doesn't make us experts, but we know what we need and want and you should learn from that, instead of write it off as some jilted group that knows nothing about your situation. It may be different but the pain is exactly the same and only those hurt no what it takes to heal, so don't be so easy to dismiss all the questions and probing, it just allows us to better help you in possibly finding a solution if one exists.

As for counseling, if he is not interested you can suggest it and that is all, but it is not something you can "change" his mind on. This is the controlling issue that we have been talking about. You can't and shouldn't try to make him do something he doesn't want, as it will only serve to push him farther away.

How about you get counseling for yourself? You don't seem to have a grasp on you and this is a major issue (several have pointed this out and yet you are still pointing out what "you" are doing, and "you" are ready for, etc. Notice the "YOU" is a big thing here. It is not about you, but about him now. YOU should have been in counseling years ago, instead of realizing that it is now overdue. Even if MC is not something he wants at this time, you could go as a single (MC isn't only reserved for couples) and you could get IC as well. You keep saying help him heal, like he is the only one that is broken. Sorry but your are the messed up one here as well and need to heal and fix yourself. 

Also you aren't grasping the ideal that doing nothing is not the same as actually doing something. You closed social media and gave up friends. Your changes are to not show that you have changed and set boundaries, but instead to remove the temptations from your life. If they are not there then they are not a problem. Issue resolved, right?? Not on your life!! Issue is till there you are just now avoiding it by not doing the things you love (and this is causing issues whether you know it or not, as he probably feels bad that you no longer are the same person and gave up things you love rather than set boundaries). So you can say I am NOT doing something to prove how devoted and changed you are. You need to be showing what you are doing and not making it about what you are avoiding.

If you are so worried about him not "checking" up on you (as he might be to the point that he is tired of being a parent and jailer to you and wants to be a partner), then maybe it is time for you to take the initiative. You could be contacting him to let him know where you are, bringing your phone to him and "showing" him that nothing is there (make it a romantic thing showing that you want to share with him and gain his trust back, instead of making him work to gain the trust back. Hint...trust must be earned once lost and not something he has to work to get back as he didn't compromise it...you did!). I know that I so desperately wanted my wife to take the initiative to PROVE her worthiness to me yet she felt that just not doing the same old routine was enough. I wanted her to WANT to show me that she was being faithful instead of just flipping the phone over and saying "check and verify for yourself!" It is like the difference between just plain animal sex and making love (when you want the lovemaking, just getting the sex is only a good enough replacement for so long and then it seems to be an unfulfilling action to tide someone over.)

You need to be doing things for him. Just removing temptations and actions from your life is not the heavy lifting needed to repair the betrayal as it is seen as avoidance rather than working towards healing. Someone whom has an addiction doesn't just stop doing the addictive behavior or avoiding the places that enable it, and consider themselves cured and healed because they are no longer in the issues. They need to address why they acted the way they did and take steps and measures to avoid it in the future and set boundaries and guidelines to live by should the issues arise again in the future and not just hide away from the thing that broke them.


----------



## imjustwatching

Ok every one back off with the insults she sound remorsful...
you all picking on her does anyone remember EI first 20 posts ? she wasn't even half remorsful as this one , all what she was talking about is how the sex with the OM is her best sex ever ,and the blameshifting to her husband and the difficulte life in her family


----------



## RV9

Why don't you ask your BH to join Tam?

People, she's here for help not abuse. Sheath your knives.


----------



## ConanHub

It may have just been a deal breaker. Who did he confide in or has he been carrying this alone?

Don't you think you were selfish to still push for marriage?

Can't you see it was not good for him?

Did you even miss a step it did you guys keep your wedding date?

Can you even imagine the hell he must have experienced looking at you in your dress at the alter?

Do you talk about your infidelity? Did you answer all his questions? Did you quit? Was your boss fired? Was his wife informed?

Sounds like this might have been rug swept. Look it up. Your H is dying inside. Have you read any books to help you help him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## imjustwatching

RV9 said:


> Why don't you ask your BH to join Tam?


We both know that this is a bad idea
everyone gonna call him an idiot for marrying her after what she did , hell someone already did :lol:


----------



## Q tip

She's only impacted in that recently, she's not his priority anymore.

Simply can't get her to see this. Or his tortured soul.


----------



## Q tip

imjustwatching said:


> With both know that this is a bad idea
> everyone gonna call him an idiot for marrying her after what she did , hell someone already did :lol:


QED


----------



## tom67

Sounds like your h is at the point of apathy.
If that is the case it's time for the both of you to move on.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> I understand that many of you have been hurt by people like myself. I am sincerely sorry for what you have been through/going through. But I never did anything to you personally.


But you are someone just like those that betrayed us.

Again, what we are thinking, all the emotions, etc. are more than likely what your husband is thinking. And by your description of things, your husband and most of us could be one in the same.

So if you don't care to know just how your husband might be thinking, that's up to you. We are more than likely representing the mindset of your husband. If you don't like it, well, now you know what your husband is thinking about you and what you did.


----------



## Q tip

If you can, take some time and read Tears thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html


----------



## lucy999

theunforgiven said:


> But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.



Sure, he had authority over your _professional_ career. Not your _personal life_. 

I've had many male bosses in my career and I've slept with none of them. This excuse doesn't mean a thing.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did. But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.


Oh please. He gave you constant praise. He didn't say, "sleep with me or you lose your job". And if he did, you could report him for harassment.

And constant praise from a superior *doesn't explain your desire *to play with his family's lives and get all giddy at the prospect of whether you can get him to leave them.

Sorry, not buying your comments above.


----------



## Q tip

tom67 said:


> Sounds like your h is at the point of apathy.
> If that is the case it's time for the both of you to move on.


Quite possibly. She needs to see this and come to terms. 

If she stays on, I Think she will have it easier to communicate with and deal with our various styles. She received shock and reaction from her acts, but has rationalized it away. She was starting to come close to communicating.

If she enjoys a challenge like us, her H will benefit from her improvement. If she comes back. Her H is teetering right now. 

She needs an IC & MC who is very experienced in these matters, ASAP. Not all have a clue about infidelity.


----------



## tom67

Q tip said:


> Quite possibly. She needs to see this and come to terms.
> 
> If she stays on, I Think she will have it easier to communicate with and deal with our various styles. She received shock and reaction from her acts, but has rationalized it away. She was starting to come close to communicating.
> 
> If she enjoys a challenge like us, her H will benefit from her improvement. If she comes back. Her H is teetering right now.
> 
> She needs an IC & MC who is very experienced in these matters, ASAP. Not all have a clue about infidelity.


Yes IC would be essential.


----------



## RV9

imjustwatching said:


> We both know that this is a bad idea
> everyone gonna call him an idiot for marrying her after what she did , hell someone already did :lol:


This place isn't that soft on BS s either.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> Did you actually *read* what I wrote? Particularly the part where I said:
> 
> *I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did.*
> 
> Anyways, I'm done for now. I can't be bothered writing my thoughts and feelings on here, only to have them purposely misinterpreted and then judged completely inaccurately.


If you do nothing else, please read the book that I linked earlier today. Please.

Tell you what, here's another link...

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald: 9781450553322: Amazon.com: Books

It's a short (but very good) read, and, while it sounds like you've already covered/implemented much of what's in the book, hopefully it will give you that last bit of insight that you need in order to improve your marriage.


----------



## GusPolinski

RV9 said:


> This place isn't that soft on BS s either.


Nor should it be. Many really do *NEED* that kick in the ass.


----------



## Observer

Some things cannot be repaired. You have to ask him some questions and the answers may be hard to accept. He is still with you so there must be something there for him. With no kids, it's clear he still loves you. Talk...communicate...ask him why he is distant. Ask him why he does not check up on you anymore. Don't open the wound, but don't be afraid to act becasue of the wound.


----------



## EI

imjustwatching said:


> Ok every one back off with the insults she sound remorsful...
> you all picking on her does anyone remember EI first 20 posts ? she wasn't even half remorsful as this one , all what she was talking about is how the sex with the OM is her best sex ever ,and the blameshifting to her husband and the difficulte life in her family


*** Thread jack***

You're 100% correct in your assessment of me and my first 20, or so, posts. Actually, probably far more than that. I wasn't initially remorseful for my A, and I didn't pretend to be, at the time. I was sorry that B1 was hurting because of what I had done, but not sorry for what I had done. And, I did feel that any sex was better than the nearly sexless marriage I had been living in with my husband for several years. I did blame my husband for everything except, perhaps, the fall of Rome when I first got here. It took me a very long time to honestly be able to separate the very serious issues in our marriage from my choice to have an affair. 

BTW, I still hold my husband accountable for refusing to work on our marriage, and on his own personal health issues, before my A. But, I no longer believe that he bears any responsibility for my choice to have an affair. That's all mine. And, finally, I did share about the very real difficulties within our family. It was all a part of our story. Our complete story. We shared it all. Is that a problem? Do you believe that makes my input less valuable, or not valuable, at all? I believe that by sharing our story, with complete honesty, and accuracy, as it evolved in real time, enabled B1 and I to forge a new marriage. A marriage that is now happier and healthier than we had ever shared in a relationship that spans over 3 decades. 

I don't personally see the usefulness in comparing the OP's remorse, or lack thereof, to mine, as our situations bear no resemblance to one another, except that we both cheated. 

I am curious, though, I had considered leaving TAM earlier this year and I removed my original thread...... long before you joined TAM.  So, were you a lurker or were you posting under another username?


----------



## michzz

theunforgiven said:


> Regarding counselling, I have suggested this to my husband but he isn't interested. At one point, I managed to organize an appointment for him but he changed his mind at the last minute. This is something that I will discuss again with him as I think it will help him heal..


I believe that regardless of his interest that you, yourself, go to a counselor. You really need that perspective of a trained professional.

And I hope he will come around and see one himself.

Eventually, the two of you may get to a point where you can work on your marriage with a marriage counselor.

But I honestly do not think yo are there yet.


----------



## NoChoice

theunforgiven said:


> I understand that many of you have been hurt by people like myself. I am sincerely sorry for what you have been through/going through. But I never did anything to you personally. Although again, I am sorry for you.
> 
> Having a set of lived experiences doesn't qualify someone to be an expert in that area. Many of you are micro-analyzing every word, trying to find evidence to apportion blame. Well, you don't need to do that, I know what I did was horrible. I admitted everything two years ago. I'm at the stage of moving forwards. I'm already doing most things which people have recommended. For example: meals, sex, gave up friends, closed social media accounts and gave him passwords etc., telling him I'm sorry and that he means the world to me (because he does). I f**ked up big time. I KNOW THAT ALREADY.
> 
> Some of you have directly accused me of threatening my husband into marriage. I begged him, yes. Threatened him? Absolutely not. My earlier comment about having a baby was a spur of the moment remark, or a vent. While I do want to have children, I am not going to tread down that path.
> 
> Regarding counselling, I have suggested this to my husband but *he isn't interested*. At one point, I managed to organize an appointment for him but he changed his mind at the last minute. This is something that I will discuss again with him as I think it will help him heal. *I am concerned that, in recent months, he stopped going through my phone, doesn't look through my computer anymore etc. Nor does he ring to check up on me like he used to. In the first stage, I couldn't even visit my sister without him tagging along, which I fully understood and had no problem with. Now, he doesn't even ask what time I'll be back when I do go to see her*. So I think counselling is well overdue and it is something I will work on.


Maybe your H found a way to deal with this. Maybe he found a 19yo bombshell and really doesn't care what time you come home.


----------



## Wolf1974

Wow


I mean just wow!

I need to find a away to sticky this thread so when I make comments about wont date cheaters and why this could be used as an example.

Engaged, not even married yet, and cheating. Cheating with a married man for sport becuase you like the power. Downplaying it was only one affair...... Yeah that lasted 6 months holy crap. All this and you honestly don't know why your now husband can't get over this. 

Did he honestly know all this before you got married? I just can't imagine a guy signing on for this marriage knowing you had banged your boss for 6 months prior to the ceremony.


----------



## GusPolinski

NoChoice said:


> Maybe your H found a way to deal with this. *Maybe he found a 19yo bombshell and really doesn't care what time you come home.*


Well, there's ^that too...


----------



## GusPolinski

RV9 said:


> This place isn't that soft on BS s either.





GusPolinski said:


> Nor should it be. Many really do *NEED* that kick in the ass.


Perfect example...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/235681-what-do-you-say.html

/sigh


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Jellybeans said:


> And they say romance is dead!


From the male perspective...what's more romantic than balls empty and belly full?

:smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Dad&Hubby

GusPolinski said:


> Nor should it be. Many really do *NEED* that kick in the ass.


Exactly.

What I've seen from TAM is the following

there's a small percentage of extreme posters, these are the people who constantly either take the WS's side if they show the most minor amount of remorse (usually false remorse)...or the BS's who spew only venom and don't actually take into account the situation....that said.

The majority of posters are all very experienced in this issue, either from the receiving, giving or both sides of the fence. They know what is needed both from the person posting AND what is happening in the world around the person. Both WS's and BS's usually need some sort of wake up call. And these people do it. It's done in many ways from honey to 2x4's. But it's always done in the way the TAMer feels is needed.


----------



## ThePheonix

Q tip said:


> You know, I am thinking this master manipulator intended to cheat and get caught, thinking she can further manipulate her H and become an immense mental burden. Her desire for that pedestal is immense.


Or perhaps a bunch of fraternity/sorority sisters and brothers with too much time on their hands over the Thanksgiving Holidays.


----------



## warlock07

theunforgiven said:


> Regarding blame. Here is my rant for the day.
> 
> There are two persons at fault in the affair. In my situation -
> 
> A man, in his 50s, married for 25 years, with three children and now one grandchild, holds a position of authority in a corporate environment.
> 
> A female, in her 20s, engaged to her boyfriend, she is at the bottom of the corporate ladder.
> 
> When that female receives constant praise from the older man, in front of her other colleagues, when she is made to feel on top of the world every single day at work, of course this creates an atmosphere for things to go wrong. Especially when there is an imbalance of power and when others in the workplace do not recognize this and leave her vulnerable.
> 
> I am not diverting blame away from me. I have 1000 times accepted responsibility for what I did. But the fact remains, I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career.


6 months....It wasn't a random out of town alcohol fueled ONS.

Ok, Where did you have sex (Hotel room/Office/Car)? 

How many times did you have sex during this time ? 

Did you use protection when you had sex ?

How did it change your relationship and sex life with your fiance ?

Did you and your boss discuss your fiance during the affair ? What were your thoughts about him ? (What he doesn't know won't hurt him ?) 

When you said he found texts, what kind of messages were they ? Sexts or love messages ?

What was your end game during the affair ? Him leaving his wife for you ? You leaving and being his mistress ? Just being his mistress for a while while continuing the relationship/marriage with your fiance?

Did you ever plan to end it ? What was the aftermath of him finding out ? How did you react ? How did the OM react to it ?

Be honest in your replies, atleast to yourself. Based on your replies until now, I don't think you will reply to this. Ask them yourself. Write them down. You seem to be in denial about the kind of person you are and can be. 

Right now, you probably would not want to hurt your husband any further. Find out the person you actually are and capable of so that you can avoid it in the future.


----------



## chaos

warlock07 said:


> 6 months....It wasn't a random out of town alcohol fueled ONS.
> 
> Ok, Where did you have sex (Hotel room/Office/Car)?
> 
> How many times did you have sex during this time ?
> 
> Did you use protection when you had sex ?
> 
> How did it change your relationship and sex life with your fiance ?
> 
> Did you and your boss discuss your fiance during the affair ? What were your thoughts about him ? (What he doesn't know won't hurt him ?)
> 
> When you said he found texts, what kind of messages were they ? Sexts or love messages ?
> 
> What was your end game during the affair ? Him leaving his wife for you ? You leaving and being his mistress ? Just being his mistress for a while while continuing the relationship/marriage with your fiance?
> 
> Did you ever plan to end it ? What was the aftermath of him finding out ? How did you react ? How did the OM react to it ?
> 
> Be honest in your replies, atleast to yourself. Based on your replies until now, I don't think you will reply to this. Ask them yourself. Write them down. You seem to be in denial about the kind of person you are and can be.
> 
> Right now, you probably would not want to hurt your husband any further. Find out the person you actually are and capable of so that you can avoid it in the future.


These questions are excellent but they should be answered to her husband and not to an internet forum.


----------



## Jambri

Sorry but you blew it. Your husband is slowly checking out of this marriage by the sound of things. 

You need to set him free. He possibly married you because he didn't want to be the bad guy and end it who knows? Maybe he wants you to file and that's why he is acting the way he is. The bottom line is this marriage is DOA. The trust is gone and you can never get it back no matter what you say or do. 

He is (rightfully so) putting you at the bottom of his priority list. Maybe you should take the hint.


----------



## NoChoice

warlock07 said:


> 6 months....It wasn't a random out of town alcohol fueled ONS.
> 
> Ok, Where did you have sex (Hotel room/Office/Car)?
> 
> How many times did you have sex during this time ?
> 
> Did you use protection when you had sex ?
> 
> How did it change your relationship and sex life with your fiance ?
> 
> Did you and your boss discuss your fiance during the affair ? What were your thoughts about him ? (What he doesn't know won't hurt him ?)
> 
> When you said he found texts, what kind of messages were they ? Sexts or love messages ?
> 
> What was your end game during the affair ? Him leaving his wife for you ? You leaving and being his mistress ? Just being his mistress for a while while continuing the relationship/marriage with your fiance?
> 
> Did you ever plan to end it ? What was the aftermath of him finding out ? How did you react ? How did the OM react to it ?
> 
> Be honest in your replies, atleast to yourself. Based on your replies until now, I don't think you will reply to this. Ask them yourself. Write them down. You seem to be in denial about the kind of person you are and can be.
> 
> Right now, you probably would not want to hurt your husband any further. Find out the person you actually are and capable of so that you can avoid it in the future.


These are the thoughts that a fully reasoned, empathetic person would ask themselves before an affair and would therefore not proceed. You are asking her to provide answers to questions that have never crossed her mind until reading this post. Do you not see?


----------



## GusPolinski

NoChoice said:


> These are the thoughts that a fully reasoned, empathetic person would ask themselves before an affair and would therefore not proceed. You are asking her to provide answers to questions that have never crossed her mind until reading this post. Do you not see?


Oh, don't worry... there's no way that her husband hasn't asked at least most of these questions by now.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Hello theunforgiven,
I read your first few posts, and skipped ahead as things got nasty. I hope you do stick around, as there are some really good people here. 

Your husband could feel immense regret that he went through with marriage. That's understandable, and I'm sure at some level, you expected it. I think his current behavior may be a manifestation of this feeling, also combined with hopelessness or apathy. It took time for these feelings to finally bubble up to the surface.

But thats only my guess. So far, you've stated some good things - no longer at the job, transparency, etc. Read some books that were mentioned by a previous poster, as I believe additional resources (besides this place) can be helpful. Above all, remain transparent, honest, loving and compassionate. And please do NOT consider pregnancy - it will solve no problem and bringing a child into this scenario is cruel. 

Has he opened up to you at all recently?


----------



## theunforgiven

warlock07 said:


> Ok, Where did you have sex (Hotel room/Office/Car)?
> 
> How many times did you have sex during this time ?
> 
> Did you use protection when you had sex ?
> 
> How did it change your relationship and sex life with your fiance ?


Re-read what you wrote. Firstly, it's irrelevant to my original question (go back to page one). Secondly, it's creepy and pervy.


----------



## theunforgiven

Whip Morgan said:


> I hope you do stick around, as there are some really good people here.


I'm not sure. I will read updates every now and then. I'll also read the other threads to gain insights. But I probably won't be too active in here as the knives continually come out.




Whip Morgan said:


> Has he opened up to you at all recently?


The opposite. As time moves on he is closing up.


----------



## michzz

theunforgiven said:


> Re-read what you wrote. Firstly, it's irrelevant to my original question (go back to page one). Secondly, it's creepy and pervy.


Actually, it's not as you perceive.Those uncomfortable questions are those that s betrayed husband needs answered so they can understand the enormity of what their wife has done.

I really don't think anyone is perving on this mess.

please reflect on why, not in defensiveness.

it will help you and your husband to heal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

theunforgiven said:


> The opposite. As time moves on he is closing up.


I would imagine he's closing up and time isn't on your side im afraid.
The questions asked on here are only the surface questions he needs to know and if you deflect to him the same as shown on this thread say good bye to your husband


----------



## theunforgiven

michzz said:


> I believe that regardless of his interest that you, yourself, go to a counselor. You really need that perspective of a trained professional.


I know where you are coming from but I disagree. As I have said on here numerous times, I have acknowledged and owned up to what I did. There's nothing that a counsellor can tell me about myself, that I don't already know.

Without appearing to sound disrespectful to others, sometimes good, decent people have a lapse in judgment and engage in disgraceful conduct and can't explain it. Sometimes, despite attempts to rationalize or understand, there are no answers. I hope I have articulated what I wanted to say.


----------



## theunforgiven

theunforgiven said:


> I know where you are coming from but I disagree. As I have said on here numerous times, I have acknowledged and owned up to what I did. There's nothing that a counsellor can tell me about myself, that I don't already know.
> 
> Without appearing to sound disrespectful to others, sometimes good, decent people have a lapse in judgment and engage in disgraceful conduct and can't explain it. Sometimes, despite attempts to rationalize or understand, there are no answers. I hope I have articulated what I wanted to say.


With that being said, I have tried, and still wanting to undertake counselling for us (as a couple).


----------



## verpin zal

theunforgiven said:


> But I probably won't be too active in here as the knives continually come out.


Don't look for flowers where there is none.

Especially after trying "I was a subordinate, woe is me", one would wonder why you're so upset with what you've heard.

My standart response to "it's no excuse but..." equals to "if it's no excuse, then don't utter it."

On to the advice: I hope you haven't said "He was a womanizer with high ranking, he made me feel special before everyone in the office, so I decided to bed him" to your husband. If you haven't, don't. Just don't try to explain why you did it. Answer any and all questions if he asks.

His title and how he made you feel special won't help him, just saying.


----------



## NoChoice

theunforgiven said:


> I am married to the most amazing man in the world. About two years ago, during our period of engagement, I stupidly had a six month affair with a work colleague. I begged and begged for forgiveness after I was caught. We married and I am thankful every morning when I wake up next to my husband. I know I am an awful person, and if I could turn back the clock, I would.
> 
> Despite the fact it has been two years, and that we are married, I know he doesn't love me like he used to love me. He always used to say "I love you" but seldom says it since the affair. He seems to be disconnected from me. Before he discovered my affair, he was planning to have children with me after we married, but now he says he isn't ready for children because he wants to focus on his career.
> 
> He is still nice to me, but it is different, much different than before. I know he is still hurting. I am scared he is going to leave me. I don't want anyone else, just him. *How can I save my marriage?*


unforgiven,
These questions are like knives cutting your flesh and causing you pain? And these are just words on a screen from strangers. Can you imagine how they would feel if they came from someone you cared deeply about? What if they were not words but rather deeds that someone you care deeply about did to you? Enter your H. Can you even fathom the feeling your H has when he thinks about what you did? This is what we are trying to get you to realize, not say you realize but to feel, really feel. Knives cutting his flesh would be a welcome relief from the pain his mind is putting him through when he thinks of the woman of his dreams giving herself to another man for 6 months while courting him at the same time.

You can never heal him until you feel what he feels and understand it. Until it affects you so deeply that each time you think of it you feel such anguish and heartache that words cannot express. Then and only then can you know what he feels and understand what he needs to heal from this. If you think what we have done to you here is painful then you are nowhere near the place your H is and until you get there you will not truly know, or be able to do, what he needs you to to help him move on. Are we trying to make you feel pain? Absolutely, because you asked the question above and we know that the only thing that has a chance of saving your marriage, if anything can, is for you to feel this. You asked, there's your answer.


----------



## bryanp

Again I am just wondering how your husband does not feel that he is second rate sexually compared to your OM since you were engaged at the time. Be honest, if the roles were reversed would you not feel that you were sexually inferior to the OW? I have no idea how you can convince your husband otherwise. If he is shutting down I guarantee you that is probably what he may be thinking all the time what I just wrote above. You better do something or he will be totally shut off to you. Good luck.


----------



## drifting on

Theunforgiven

May I ask what you have done to help your husband heal? You said you wanted to see if you could make a married man leave his wife for you, what did you tell your husband your reasons were for this? I ask as I am trying to help. If you would rather not answer on the forum then pm me and I will answer. From what you have posted it appears your husband is checking out of the marriage. You need to act now. 

My ww's affair totally emasculated me and I was in depression. Is your husband depressed? Another question, have you been cheated on? I loved and trusted my WW unconditionally, I found that is a mistake on my part. So when she confessed to having an affair for six months with a co-worker I died on the inside. I was destroyed and devastated. I became depressed and suicidal. I had extreme rage, I needed every question answered about the affair. We are in MC and that has helped. Find a therapist who specializes in infidelity. I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Whip Morgan

unforgiven,

It is important to continue trying to communicate with him, now more than ever since he is closing up to you. You must continue. If I were him, I'd probably have intense feelings of whether you really want to be his wife. 

What I mean is, you must have been incredibly embarrassed when this all came out. So, if your (then) fiancee calls it off and gets rid of you, you are stuck with the stigma of being a cheater who lost it all. Worse, you helped wreck another family in the process. However, since your husband reconciled (on the surface) and married you, you now may see yourself as redeemed in the eyes of others. That yes, you're not such a bad person, because your husband went ahead and married you anyway. 

I don't know if you feel that way, but I bet you had thoughts along these lines in the past. I'm not judging you for it, just calling it like I see it - especially in the tone of your posts and the words you choose. I would not be surprised if your husband feels something similar, that you "got away" with it while he continues to suffer. I'm sure his own feelings of regret play into it. 

Its important to do two things (if I were your husband here):
1. For you to truly ask yourself if marriage with your husband is what you want - not because your saving face by being with him, but because you want to be his wife in every aspect of marriage: love,sex, honesty, affection, respect, loyalty, the list goes on.
2. To then explain this to him. I have no doubt you already have said things to this effect. However, its time to say it differently. For example, saying "I'm sorry" isnt enough. I'm sure you have done more than that, but I think you understand my point.

Also, do not rule out counseling for yourself in addition to MC. You are not affair-proof simply because you got caught the first time. Be open to other reasons for why you did such a horrible thing. Playing the naive, manipulated work subordinate needs to stop. Don't do it here, because it gets you nowhere, and I hope you do not, nor ever did, with your husband.


----------



## theunforgiven

Whip Morgan said:


> What I mean is, you must have been incredibly embarrassed when this all came out. So, if your (then) fiancee calls it off and gets rid of you, you are stuck with the stigma of being a cheater who lost it all. Worse, you helped wreck another family in the process. However, since your husband reconciled (on the surface) and married you, you now may see yourself as redeemed in the eyes of others. That yes, you're not such a bad person, because your husband went ahead and married you anyway.


It was considered best that this whole mess (that I started) was not a public spectacle. While the wife of the OM let everyone know in their immediate circle (her family and friends) as they separated immediately, my husband and I decided not to inform our families and friends. Although I told my sister (my husband knows). My husband immediately requested and received a transfer (same job/same company) which is incidentally my hometown and I obviously went with him. I sacrificed my promising career and work for a less reputable company in a dead end position, but I am not complaining about it.


----------



## theunforgiven

drifting on said:


> May I ask what you have done to help your husband heal? You said you wanted to see if you could make a married man leave his wife for you, what did you tell your husband your reasons were for this?


With respect, we're going in circles here.


----------



## theunforgiven

Whip Morgan said:


> 1. For you to truly ask yourself if marriage with your husband is what you want - not because your saving face by being with him, but because you want to be his wife in every aspect of marriage: love,sex, honesty, affection, respect, loyalty, the list goes on..


Yes. I've already emphasized this numerous times.




Whip Morgan said:


> 2. To then explain this to him. I have no doubt you already have said things to this effect. However, its time to say it differently. For example, saying "I'm sorry" isnt enough. I'm sure you have done more than that, but I think you understand my point.


I've done this also.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> I know where you are coming from but I disagree. As I have said on here numerous times, I have acknowledged and owned up to what I did. There's nothing that a counsellor can tell me about myself, that I don't already know.
> 
> Without appearing to sound disrespectful to others, *sometimes good, decent people have a lapse in judgment and engage in disgraceful conduct...*


This is true.



theunforgiven said:


> ...and can't explain it. Sometimes, despite attempts to rationalize or understand, there are no answers.


This is false. There are _always_ answers. They may not be immediately apparent to you, and you may not like them, but they're there.

There _*are*_ answers for why you chose to engage in an affair, and counseling may help you to both understand and come to grips w/ them.



theunforgiven said:


> I hope I have articulated what I wanted to say.


Yes. Well, sort of. Either way, I'll ask again... If you don't truly understand precisely what it was in your character that allowed you to engage in such disgraceful conduct (your own words), how can you know that you won't do it again if you happen to find yourself in the same set of circumstances or facing the same vulnerability...?

Again, individual counseling can help w/ this. And besides, if your husband sees that you're taking proactive measures to get your relationship back on track, he may wind up being all the more willing to participate in marriage counseling w/ you.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> With respect, we're going in circles here.


We're not asking questions just for the sake of asking questions, beating you up, etc. You asked for help. To provide that, we need a better understanding of your husband's current mindset. Answering questions regarding the evolution of your relationship over the course of the past (roughly) 2 1/2 years will give us some of that information.


----------



## ConanHub

OP. You are far to brilliant for any help to cone from here. You disregard pertinent attempts to help you. You deflect questions as unimportant and you know you don't need counseling.

There is really no reason for you to be here when you are so smart. Much more informed than anyone here.

I am surprised your husband just doesn't do what you want. After all, you have it all figured out. Wonder what his problem could be? 

Yup. Just doesn't make sense. There must be something wrong with him because you are just fine. Right?

Or maybe, many here have a vastly greater knowledge than you but you are simply too full of your screwed up self to get some real help.

There are some wise veterans here giving you time. I don't even count myself among them but I am done with you, kind of like your husband might be.

If you ever wise up, seriously doubt it, there will probably be some who will stick around to keep trying to help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## theunforgiven

GusPolinski said:


> how can you know that you won't do it again if you happen to find yourself in the same set of circumstances or facing the same vulnerability...?


This is a relatively easy question to answer. It is simple. Anyone who has ever inflicted this type of pain on the person they love the most in the world, will never, ever, consider doing it again. I know within myself, I am not capable to do it again.


----------



## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> OP. You are far to brilliant for any help to cone from here. You disregard pertinent attempts to help you. You deflect questions as unimportant and you know you don't need counseling.
> 
> There is really no reason for you to be here when you are so smart. Much more informed than anyone here.
> 
> I am surprised your husband just doesn't do what you want. After all, you have it all figured out. Wonder what his problem could be?
> 
> Yup. Just doesn't make sense. There must be something wrong with him because you are just fine. Right?
> 
> Or maybe, many here have a vastly greater knowledge than you but you are simply too full of your screwed up self to get some real help.
> 
> There are some wise veterans here giving you tine. I don't even count myself among them but I am done with you, kind of like your husband might be.
> 
> *If you ever wise up, seriously doubt it, there will probably be some who will stick around to keep trying to help you.*


I'm not going anywhere.

Well... not until the circus midgets, hobo clown cars, lawn crews, and/or peanut butter doggy tongue baths start to make their way into the narrative... :rofl:


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> This is a relatively easy question to answer. It is simple. Anyone who has ever inflicted this type of pain on the person they love the most in the world, will never, ever, consider doing it again. I know within myself, I am not capable to do it again.


Incoming 2x4!!!

Sorry, but that's not good enough. People do it again and again all the time, day after day, and all over the world.

Let's face it... you only stopped once you were caught.

Sooo... here's a tough question...

If you hadn't been caught, do you think that you'd still be carrying on in your illicit relationship w/ OM to this day? If not, why?


----------



## theunforgiven

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... here's a tough question...
> 
> If you hadn't been caught, do you think that you'd still be carrying on in your illicit relationship w/ OM to this day? If not, why?


No, I would not be. In some ways, I guess I thought it was semi-okay because I wasn't married, and that I'd stop completely when I was married. My husband is older than me, I'm 27 (he's 33) and he's had more partners that I have had. Before my husband, I had only one long term boyfriend (at college). Upon reflection, I may have been experimenting before settling down. That's no excuse. I know that.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

The husband has 100% responsibility for the state of this marriage. It's his fault that he's in the current mess that he's in with this marriage. 

Would anyone willingly invest a large sum of money with financial investment manager that has been known to swindle clients and/or run Ponzi schemes??? That's what the husband did in this hypothetical situation, with a strong emphasis on HYPOTHETICAL...


----------



## warlock07

theunforgiven said:


> This is a relatively easy question to answer. It is simple. Anyone who has ever inflicted this type of pain on the person they love the most in the world, will never, ever, consider doing it again. I know within myself, I am not capable to do it again.


No wonder her husband has given up !! You probably don't actually listen to anything he says.

Can anyone vouch for you regarding the statement that you will never cheat again ? I mean, other than you. 

If it is not infidelity, it will be your stupidity that will end the marriage.

And please cut down on the hyperbole.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

theunforgiven said:


> I sacrificed my promising career and work for a less reputable company in a dead end position, but I am not complaining about it.


Didn't you write that you worked for the OM when the affair was going on?...

If so, me thinks that the promising career ended when the affair ended.

Quid pro quo comes to mind.


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Didn't you write that you worked for the OM when the affair was going on?...
> 
> If so, me thinks that the promising career ended when the affair ended.
> 
> Quid pro quo comes to mind.


Exactly don't get fired but don't get reviews when up or promoted.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> No, I would not be. In some ways, I guess I thought it was semi-okay because I wasn't married, and that I'd stop completely when I was married. My husband is older than me, I'm 27 (he's 33) and he's had more partners that I have had. Before my husband, I had only one long term boyfriend (at college). Upon reflection, I may have been experimenting before settling down. That's no excuse. I know that.


I'm not sure if this is naiveté or pride, but it's bullsh*t either way. 

Additionally, by your own admission, if your then fiancé/now husband had engaged in the same behavior, you'd have likely pulled the plug on the marriage... and THAT is entitlement.

And you know... "experimenting" and "attempting to manipulate a married man into leaving his wife and family" don't quite have the same ring to them, do they?


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> I'm not sure if this is naiveté or pride, but it's bullsh*t either way.
> 
> Additionally, by your own admission, if your then fiancé/now husband had engaged in the same behavior, you'd have likely pulled the plug on the marriage... and THAT is entitlement.
> 
> And you know... "experimenting" and "attempting to manipulate a married man into leaving his wife and family" don't quite have the same ring to them, do they?


Sigh!!!
:iagree::iagree:


----------



## italianjob

Well, first of all I'll get this out of the way: I think your husband shouldn't have married you. If you are really in love with someone, 4 years into the relationship would be in the "Honeymoon phase" of the relationship itself; in that phase you shouldn't even be aware of other people being interested in you, let alone cheating with them. Recovering from infidelity is an awful lot of hard work for both partners, for an awful lot of time. To try it in a situation like this is like spending a lot of money to repair an average car that was seriously wrecked in a very bad accident. You're better off with a new one IMO.

I think your husband is behaving like he is because he's thinking along the lines of what I said above. He probably has understandable doubts about what he's done (marrying you anyway). Furthermore, by the timeline you gave the decision to carry on with the marriage was too rushed, he wouldn't have had the time to heal properly, admitted that it was possible for him to heal from such a wound.

That said, how to save your marriage? You ask that, yet you act almost offended when asked about details. The point is: your husband's behaviour may be for general reasons, more or less as stated above, and in that case I'm afraid there's little chance to save your marriage for real, or he may be reacting to specific parts of how the aftermath of your affair was handled that have somehow left him hanging.

For example, I could point out that since your affair wasn't exposed to your and his side, he didn't and doesn't have anybody close to him that knows about things and can support and/or advise him, and he may be missing that. Or he may be thinking about specific details or circumstances or even specific sexual acts, that were hinted to but not properly discussed at the time, but are now coming back to haunt him and casting a shadow of doubt over his decision to go on and marry you anyway. But if you refuse to give details, no one here can help you and point out what may be bothering him. You might try to ask him directly, then.

Finally, if I may, it looks like you didn't do that good of a job yourself analyzing the reasons for your affair. In a few days you came up with 4 different versions of the reason:
1 "It was exciting at the time". The dumb bimbo version: "It felt good so I just kept on doing it".
2 "It was about power". The master manipulator version: "I'm so hot and so self assured that I can make men do whatever I want".
3 "I was a subordinate to a male who had authority over my professional career". The poor, sexually harassed, ingenuous girl version: "He had power and made me do things I wouldn't have done". This is the opposite of the one above. Also, the sentence you used that I reported is true for hundreds of millions of women around the world and the vast majority of them are not in an affair with their boss.
4 "I may have been experimenting before settling down". The young unexperienced girl who can't resist the chance of catching up version: "I needed to party before I settled down". Keep in mind that a "serious" engagement is already settling down, it is a trial version of the marriage to follow.

What of these reasons did you "sell" to your husband as the one behind your affair? And can the real you please stand up?


----------



## Suspecting2014

IMO, you should start doing 3 things:

1.- Stop putting pressure on him about MC, IC, pregnancy, etc. Give him a break. Men don’t like pressure.

2.- Try to have at least 3 times a week a talk about how are you feeling to each other, your fears, his fears, real expectations, etc.

3.- Try to have initiative, let me explain: I read on other thread, one from almostrecovery, that one thing that made him realize the effort from his wife was her initiative. When he was exposing to OMW, her wife got the phone and gave her specific details to prove the affair. Of course this is not your case, but ask yourself a question: What have your done besides accepting consequences (like moving out the company, apologizing, did what he ask, etc.) to rebuilt your relation?

IMO, the WS shows a lot of iniciative to have and keep the affair, but when discovered just accept things and do as says. I believe in the mind of BS this lack of initiative is equal to lack of interest.

In other hand you should really have a "where are this marriage going" conversation whit your H.

Sorry if I don’t make myself clear, English is not my first language.

Good luck


----------



## Jellybeans

13 pages in and I still ask: 

Have you actually spoken to your husband about this? About you feeling him disconnect from your relationship?

It doesn't matter what we say, it matters what you and husband decide to do.

Communication is the first step.


----------



## theunforgiven

italianjob said:


> What of these reasons did you "sell" to your husband as the one behind your affair?


I didn't "sell" anything to my husband. As I've already said, sometimes people do things and we can't explain it, but we can make assumptions about why we did it.


----------



## theunforgiven

Jellybeans said:


> 13 pages in and I still ask:
> 
> Have you actually spoken to your husband about this? About you feeling him disconnect from your relationship?


Of course I have. He says there's nothing wrong. That being said, I think about 80-90% of the time he's "normal". He can laugh, have fun, but then at other times his mood changes and he closes himself off. More recently, he is shutting himself off more often, which is the opposite to what should be happening two years down the track. Rather than getting better, he seems to be worse. I'm not sure if there are underlying undiagnosed issues that I don't know about, but my incident has certainly contributed to his unhappiness.


----------



## farsidejunky

The more I hear of your husband, the more it sounds like he has his eye elsewhere. 

Have you ruled out an affair on his end?


----------



## italianjob

theunforgiven said:


> I didn't "sell" anything to my husband. As I've already said, sometimes people do things and we can't explain it, but we can make assumptions about why we did it.


Someone really remorseful would have been soul searching for the last two years and probably would have come up with a pretty close idea to why it happened. If you are still throwing around random ideas two years later maybe IC would not be a bad idea. Maybe one of the reasons for the discomfort you see in your husband is that he still doesn't know why you did it... Hence he can't know if the problem is really gone for good or not...


----------



## Squeakr

theunforgiven said:


> I know where you are coming from but I disagree. As I have said on here numerous times, I have acknowledged and owned up to what I did. There's nothing that a counsellor can tell me about myself, that I don't already know.


Justification BS. You might have owned your choices maybe, but you have no idea why you have truly done, why you did it, and offered nothing but excuses as possibility. A good counselor can help you find out what is missing in yourself that caused you to act the way you did. Everything has a reason and all you keep doing is offering cliche excuses for why you have done it (and each time it changes completely, so something is missing and you aren't sure what it is). You could benefit from counseling, as you are not as put together as you seem otherwise you wouldn't have hurt and betrayed the one that you love the most in the most heinous of ways, with little to no regard for his well being during your long term affair (that you admit only wanting to end once marriage occurred).



> Without appearing to sound disrespectful to others, sometimes good, decent people have a lapse in judgment and engage in disgraceful conduct and can't explain it. Sometimes, despite attempts to rationalize or understand, there are no answers. I hope I have articulated what I wanted to say.


Yep you have articulated your ability to excuse everything as FM ([email protected]#$ing Magic). Sorry but good decent people don't have a long term lapse in judgment and reason and repeatedly engage in that bad judgement/ action, instead they stop when the action and they learn from their issues not repeat it until they are "ready" to stop. To continue to do the same thing repeatedly for an extended time, justifying that you will stop when x occurs, and expect that it should all been written away because you feel you are a good person and have recognized you did wrong, is just ridiculous. This thought process in itself shows that you could benefit from counseling, as could your H (but only he can make himself go. I find it so hypocritical that you are judging how he could benefit from counseling, when he has done nothing wrong, and you are the one that caused the problems and think that you are without need of counseling. Another double standard at play. If nothing else, get to counseling to find out why you think you are better than your H (as you would leave him if he cheated and he needs counseling, but with the tables turned the situation is completely different).


----------



## G.J.

6 month lapse of judgement :scratchhead:

would have been longer but lapse of judgement was interrupted by being caught


----------



## theunforgiven

farsidejunky said:


> The more I hear of your husband, the more it sounds like he has his eye elsewhere.
> 
> Have you ruled out an affair on his end?


After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.

I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.

My marriage is over.


----------



## harrybrown

So sorry.

too much pain from cheating.

flooding of emotions.

Hope you both find some peace in the future.

Have you talked to your sister?


----------



## G.J.

theunforgiven said:


> After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.
> 
> I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.
> 
> My marriage is over.


Sorry but little sympathy from me


REAP WHAT YOU SOW


----------



## theunforgiven

I am so, so, so, ANGRY right now. I'm printing his emails and then I'm packing my bags and going to my parent's. I've just rambled to mom on the phone. Going to divorce asap and move on with my life.


----------



## G.J.

theunforgiven said:


> I am so, so, so, ANGRY right now. I'm printing his emails and then I'm packing my bags and going to my parent's. I've just rambled to mom on the phone. Going to divorce asap and move on with my life.


Hang on maybe it was a lapse of judgement


----------



## michzz

theunforgiven said:


> After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.
> 
> I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.
> 
> My marriage is over.



Maybe he is just asking her how to deal with you?

Pretty presumptuous at this point.

Maybe you ought to have an actual conversation with him.


----------



## tom67

theunforgiven said:


> I am so, so, so, ANGRY right now. I'm printing his emails and then I'm packing my bags and going to my parent's. I've just rambled to mom on the phone. Going to divorce asap and move on with my life.


So you aren't going to give him the chance he gave you?:scratchhead:
Just sayin.


----------



## Jellybeans

Well, that was fast. I really hope we're not being... 

What do the emails to your sister say?


----------



## farsidejunky

What was the content of the emails? Details please.


----------



## imjustwatching

Who else think this is a fake thread ? hit the like button


----------



## tom67

imjustwatching said:


> Who else think this is a fake thread ? hit the like button


Already pm'd a mod


----------



## italianjob

Uhm... Maybe the mails where about secret meetings under the bridge...


----------



## Squeakr

G.J. said:


> Hang on maybe it was a lapse of judgement


Gotta love it. The Entitlements and Double Standards run deep within this one.


----------



## Suspecting2014

theunforgiven said:


> I am so, so, so, ANGRY right now. I'm printing his emails and then I'm packing my bags and going to my parent's. I've just rambled to mom on the phone. Going to divorce asap and move on with my life.


So he gave you a chance but you wont give him the same oportunity...


----------



## michzz

While the OP may have done incredibly awful things and is deserving of some goodly amount of chiding for that, nobody deserves to be cheated upon.

If indeed the OP is not a troll, then she needs compassion.

At this point she should look into some counseling since her introspection has been flawed and her husband's response to her behavior has become destructive.

Ultimately, this marriage is likely at an end.
but she and her H could benefit from clear thinking about their futures free from destructive drama.


----------



## RV9

It took me a two weeks of going through the the mails to convince myself my ex was cheating. OP is way better than me. Good for her.


----------



## tom67

michzz said:


> While the OP may have done incredibly awful things and is deserving of some goodly amount of chiding for that, nobody deserves to be cheated upon.
> 
> If indeed the OP is not a troll, then she needs compassion.
> 
> At this point she should look into some counseling since her introspection has been flawed and her husband's response to her behavior has become destructive.
> 
> Ultimately, this marriage is likely at an end.
> but she and her H could benefit from clear thinking about their futures free from destructive drama.


The one mistake her h made was not calling off the wedding and taking time think and heal.
But if this is true talk about double standards geesh.


----------



## Squeakr

RV9 said:


> It took me a two weeks of going through the the mails to convince myself my ex was cheating. OP is way better than me. Good for her.


Maybe they were like my STBXW. She didn't exactly make it hard to figure out with all the talk about meeting up and the sh!t they did, the pictures of all the different guys junk, and it was a hidden email account. Made it all too apparent what was happening.


----------



## michzz

michzz said:


> While the OP may have done incredibly awful things and is deserving of some goodly amount of chiding for that, nobody deserves to be cheated upon.
> 
> If indeed the OP is not a troll, then she needs compassion.
> 
> At this point she should look into some counseling since her introspection has been flawed and her husband's response to her behavior has become destructive.
> 
> Ultimately, this marriage is likely at an end.
> but she and her H could benefit from clear thinking about their futures free from destructive drama.





tom67 said:


> The one mistake her h made was not calling off the wedding and taking time think and heal.
> But if this is true talk about double standards geesh.


I kinda see your logic, but there is no double standard in cheating.

It's nonsensical to think of an ethical standard when it comes to this behavior.


----------



## GusPolinski

theunforgiven said:


> After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.
> 
> I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.
> 
> My marriage is over.


Damn.


----------



## GusPolinski

Jellybeans said:


> Well, that was fast. I really hope we're not being...


LOL... IKR!



Jellybeans said:


> What do the emails to your sister say?


Kinda wondering that myself...


----------



## RV9

Squeakr said:


> Maybe they were like my STBXW. She didn't exactly make it hard to figure out with all the talk about meeting up and the sh!t they did, the pictures of all the different guys junk, and it was a hidden email account. Made it all too apparent what was happening.


In my case the mails were quite apparent. Only I was stuck with the notion that it isn't real, it can't happen to me. Oh well... 

Sorry for the thread jack.


----------



## Satya

*Re: Re: I don't want to lose him*



theunforgiven said:


> I am concerned that, in recent months, he stopped going through my phone, doesn't look through my computer anymore etc. Nor does he ring to check up on me like he used to. In the first stage, I couldn't even visit my sister without him tagging along, which I fully understood and had no problem with. Now, he doesn't even ask what time I'll be back when I do go to see her.


Seems like he might be reaching a state of indifference.


----------



## GusPolinski

michzz said:


> I kinda see your logic, but there is no double standard in cheating.
> 
> It's nonsensical to think of an ethical standard when it comes to this behavior.


The double standard here is that OP is unwilling to reconcile w/ her husband in the face of his (presumed) infidelity, while he was willing to do so following his discovery of her own. Having said that, if he has in fact been cheating w/ her sister, I can understand why she'd feel that way. It's a double betrayal, which must sting all the more.

Either way, we don't yet know the content of the e-mails that OP's husband and sister have been exchanging.


----------



## GusPolinski

Satya said:


> Seems like he might be reaching a state of indifference.


Keep reading. It gets better.


----------



## Squeakr

michzz said:


> I kinda see your logic, but there is no double standard in cheating.
> 
> It's nonsensical to think of an ethical standard when it comes to this behavior.


It is not the cheating that causes the double standard issue but the reaction to it. When ones expects to be forgiven and afforded a second chance without condemnation from their spouse and everyone else when they do something wrong, yet reacts and expects the opposite when it is directed at them....this screams of double standard!! Doesn't matter what event, action, or ethics involved, when like situations require different end results based upon whom is affected that is double standard personified.


----------



## farsidejunky

Assuming this is real, she just freaking found out. How about some empathy? I understand most of the negativity is from triggering, but really???


----------



## Squeakr

farsidejunky said:


> Assuming this is real, she just freaking found out. How about some empathy? I understand most of the negativity is from triggering, but really???


Most of the negativity is from her lack of empathy this entire thread. All she has done is make it all about her. In her words she has owned her actions and she is a good person who had a lax in judgement, so why can't her H just get over it already? Come on she says he got meals, sex, she said she was sorry, got rid of friends and closed social media, what else could she do to make him just "move on from this", as she already has, and all we other posters are doing is projecting our triggers and issues onto her!

This is the attitude throughout and now we are supposed to feel empathy for her as she has thrown out the double standard early on and isn't giving him a chance or explanation? If this is true, I am sorry for what she is experiencing and will the more she thinks about it, but as of right now I see no need for empathy (no double standard for me, as no empathy for her H and us, why expect it from us?)


----------



## michzz

Squeakr said:


> It is not the cheating that causes the double standard issue but the reaction to it. When ones expects to be forgiven and afforded a second chance without condemnation from their spouse and everyone else when they do something wrong, yet reacts and expects the opposite when it is directed at them....this screams of double standard!! Doesn't matter what event, action, or ethics involved, when like situations require different end results based upon whom is affected that is double standard personified.


The difference is the stage of their marriage. When she cheated, her H and she were presumably in a fully-charged relationship. presuming his thoughts, he may have been able to weather a lot of crap back then.

She tossed a lot of crap in the ensuring years.

Both are drained from the experience of her betrayal.

If he is indeed cheating, it sounds like revenge.

Both of them are not in a fully-charged marriage.

So, presuming her thoughts, she doesn't see it worth it to continue, despite her having started this whole mess.

Because he has been long-suffering, she is to be also?

I'm not defending any cheating, clearly it is wrong.

I know from my own personal life that staying in a bad marriage just because further whipping can be done, is not a good way to live--even if you get to hold the whip.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> Assuming this is real...


See, that's the thing...



farsidejunky said:


> ...she just freaking found out. How about some empathy?


Well, you're not wrong. And, as you say, if this is real, then I do feel sort of badly for OP. Seriously.

As I've already mentioned, much of what I posted in my initial replies to this thread were basically nothing more than me "kneading the dough". Some people really do need that.

But let's be real here... this isn't a situation where the monkey can't free his arm from a knot in a tree because he doesn't have the sense to let go of the chunk of salt that he's firmly gripping in his entrapped hand. 

Or Hell... maybe it is.



farsidejunky said:


> I understand most of the negativity is from triggering, but really???


Eh... I don't think so. That notion seems to be thrown around here quite a bit. And, while it may be true for some, I've _always_ loathed infidelity... even before I experienced it within my own marriage.


----------



## Jambri

Had a feeling this might be fake.....now I'm sure of it


----------



## Squeakr

michzz said:


> The difference is the stage of their marriage. When she cheated, her H and she were presumably in a fully-charged relationship. presuming his thoughts, he may have been able to weather a lot of crap back then.
> 
> She tossed a lot of crap in the ensuring years.
> 
> Both are drained from the experience of her betrayal.
> 
> If he is indeed cheating, it sounds like revenge.
> 
> Both of them are not in a fully-charged marriage.
> 
> So, presuming her thoughts, she doesn't see it worth it to continue, despite her having started this whole mess.
> 
> Because he has been long-suffering, she is to be also?
> 
> I'm not defending any cheating, clearly it is wrong.
> 
> I know from my own personal life that staying in a bad marriage just because further whipping can be done, is not a good way to live--even if you get to hold the whip.


Doesn't sound like revenge to me (especially after 2 years), but the actions of someone that is distraught, lost, and feels little connection to their spouse after years of trying. I am not defending his actions (which may or may not be an A, as we don't know what is in the emails) as I see no defense for an A.

I am not saying she should stay, but she should be willing to work on things. She in the beginning of the thread was so "into" the marriage when things were going in her favor.

She started out stating that she felt he was the "dream" guy and her soul mate and she needed to make this M work at all costs as they were meant to be together. So she was fully charged in this M as I see it. He, as it sounds, is at one point possibly but is not now. If she was sneaking around and cheating on him, trying to get the OM to leave his wife and family, how can you say that she was fully charged in the relationship in the beginning (*sounds about as vested in it as he is now)? 

They were engaged and should have been in the "new" love stage, yet she was stepping out on him for over 6 months, doesn't sound like someone fully charged in a relationship to me. As i see it pretty much like situations where one party is more committed than the other, yet only one was willing to give the other a chance. So much for being human, missing something, making mistakes, being pressured, etc that she wants to use as a possible reason for her A, but with his actions, they cross a boundary (funny one that didn't exist when she was doing it but does now....double standard).


----------



## Squeakr

Jambri said:


> Had a feeling this might be fake.....now I'm sure of it


Whether this is true or not, it has sparked an interesting discussion in entitlements and double standards (especially in the mind of a WS).


----------



## SevenYears

She said that her and her husband decided not to tell anyone about the affair. But I bet everyone finds out about his. And it seems like he isn't going to be given another chance. Like everyone has said its amazing the double standards shown in this thread.


----------



## tom67

SevenYears said:


> She said that her and her husband decided not to tell anyone about the affair. But I bet everyone finds out about his. And it seems like he isn't going to be given another chance. Like everyone has said its amazing the double standards shown in this thread.


:iagree::iagree:
Yep that was another mistake the hubby made not exposing at least to close family.
Assuming this is...

But I bet sister gets the rest of the story out.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> Secondly, it's creepy and pervy.


Yes, perhaps those questions posed to you are creepy. 

But then again, so is someone relishing the idea of getting a MM to leave his family.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.
> 
> I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.
> 
> My marriage is over.



Oh this is rich. You cheat and desperately want a 2nd chance, but now you found something out about him, and not even confirming that its cheating, and NOW your marriage is over?

Talk about a double standard.

Yes, your marriage is over because you feel entitled to be forgiven, but don't want to forgive your H for whatever it is you think you saw.

Do him a favor, file for divorce.


----------



## vellocet

theunforgiven said:


> I am so, so, so, ANGRY right now. I'm printing his emails and then I'm packing my bags and going to my parent's. I've just rambled to mom on the phone. Going to divorce asap and move on with my life.


Good decision. This is very good....for him. You expect to be forgiven, but won't give him the same courtesy. 

But something tells me you are feeding us yet more bull***. You say you see emails to and from your sister, but fail to say what.

People, I think we've been had.

Mods, if you are reading, can you please close this disgusting thread?


----------



## NoChoice

This was over from the beginning.


----------



## warlock07

theunforgiven said:


> After reading this I went and opened my husband's computer. Nothing of interest was in his history folder because the cache had been deleted. But when I went to gmail on his computer there were three usernames in the dropdown box. One was his, one was mine, and one was a username unknown to me.
> 
> I entered the same password of his gmail account and it worked for the other gmail account. In it, are emails to and from my sister going back to October. Yes my F**KING SISTER. It seems that he also has another phone, well at least another f**cking phone number that I didn't know about.
> 
> My marriage is over.



:rofl:

Atleast it wasn't your mother. Positive thinking and all . 

Guess you got tired ?

But someone got the narcissist WW down pretty well. Props to the writing. Better than the more obvious trolls.


----------



## chaos

I have to disagree with you folks regarding UF's last post.

If UF's husband CHOSE to forgive her for her affair, CHOSE to marry her and CHOSE to make a new start with her, it does not mean that he gets a "free pass" to go out and have an affair of his own - IF that is what UF found. So far BOTH have stayed faithful to each other AFTER they got married.

Lastly, one could argue that IF UF's husband has been cheating on UF with her sister, then his affair is far worse than hers because it came AFTER he got married and KNOWING full well how devastating an affair is, he still went ahead and had one.

IF, and I repeat, IF UF's husband is cheating, she's under no obligation to forgive her husband and stay married to him. Doing so is tantamount to giving him a "free pass".


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## ThePheonix

chaos said:


> Lastly, one could argue that IF UF's husband has been cheating on UF with her sister, then his affair is far worse than hers because it came AFTER he got married and KNOWING full well how devastating an affair is, he still went ahead and had one.


Just goes to show you, if you have a hot sister willing to sooth your husband's wounded ego from your affair, you better walk the line.


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## chaos

ThePheonix said:


> Just goes to show you, if you have a hot sister willing to sooth your husband's wounded ego from your affair, you better walk the line.


Or that screwing around with married men, is a family tradition.


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## BjornFree

lol. This seems like a nice bedtime story.


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## Squeakr

chaos said:


> I have to disagree with you folks regarding UF's last post.
> 
> If UF's husband CHOSE to forgive her for her affair, CHOSE to marry her and CHOSE to make a new start with her, it does not mean that he gets a "free pass" to go out and have an affair of his own - IF that is what UF found. So far BOTH have stayed faithful to each other AFTER they got married.
> 
> Lastly, one could argue that IF UF's husband has been cheating on UF with her sister, then his affair is far worse than hers because it came AFTER he got married and KNOWING full well how devastating an affair is, he still went ahead and had one.
> 
> IF, and I repeat, IF UF's husband is cheating, she's under no obligation to forgive her husband and stay married to him. Doing so is tantamount to giving him a "free pass".


I understand your position, but I think you misunderstood, as no one here is saying he was right and justified in his A (if that is what is truly happening with him). We are saying that she is being narcissistic and unreasonable in her handling of the situation, given the nature of her prior status and offenses.

No one thinks he deserves a free pass, in this and no one has suggested that. What has been suggested is that he should be afforded the chance to be given a second chance, which is different than a free pass. With the second chance he would then be responsible as she was for the heavy lifting, and changes (which she really hasn't done from my standpoint, so hers could have been viewed as a free pass in a sense.)

Maybe his is with her sister, but I don't know that I would necessarily say it is worse based solely on that fact. Hers was solely to try and sway a MM away from his wife and family so hers was equally bad as she was trying to purposely break up a family, with the intention of stopping it and then getting married right away afterward (equally heinous), as his seems like an exit A (meaning he isn't doing it just for fun and stupid reason but as a coping skill to get out. Man writing this it sounds like I am justifying it, but I am not and do not support any infidelity and think it is the worst thing possible. Whether they were married or not should be irrelevant as they were engaged during hers, so they both carry the same weight in terms of dedication and commitment.

You are correct that she is under no obligation to remain married to him, but it is incredibly hypocritical to suggest that he shouldn't deserve some chance to explain, etc, as she was given the same. It is tantamount to saying that her A isn't as bad as he wasn't related to the AP. Makes no difference it was a heinous act on both parts and an A is an A. Is an A with only a BJ and anal worse than one with PIV? NO they are equally bad and one doesn't deserve more consolation than the other.


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## GusPolinski

For all we know at this point, OP's husband was simply venting about her affair to the sister. Until OP comes back and provides additional insight regarding the content of the e-mails, all we can do is speculate.


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## chaos

Squeakr said:


> You are correct that she is under no obligation to remain married to him, but it is incredibly hypocritical to suggest that he shouldn't deserve some chance to explain, etc, as she was given the same. It is tantamount to saying that her A isn't as bad as he wasn't related to the AP. Makes no difference it was a heinous act on both parts and an A is an A. Is an A with only a BJ and anal worse than one with PIV? NO they are equally bad and one doesn't deserve more consolation than the other.


Until UF comes back to confirm or deny that her husband is having an affair with her sister or another woman, we are engaging in nothing more than speculation. But be that as it may, I agree that it seems hypocritical of UF to want to be forgiven for her affair but she won't forgive her husband if he ends his affair and shows remorse to her.

But her knee jerk reaction MAY have been the same as that of her husband when he found out about her affair during their marriage engagement. Her ultimate decision may be a different one than the one we witnessed in her last post.


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## Squeakr

chaos said:


> Until UF comes back to confirm or deny that her husband is having an affair with her sister or another woman, we are engaging in nothing more than speculation.


Some are engaging in speculation. I have predicated all of my responses with he may or may not be having an A. I and others have taken the neutral line and are only predicating responses while staying in that zone so not really speculating.


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## ThePheonix

BjornFree said:


> lol. This seems like a nice bedtime story.


Those sorority sisters may be winding down toward the end of the semester. You'd think they'd be preparing for finals.


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## ThePheonix

chaos said:


> Or that screwing around with married men, is a family tradition.


I ain't asking any questions about his mother in law. I hope she ain't like the camper I'm planning to buy.... A Cougar.


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## Augusto

Jellybeans said:


> Please do not use a baby, a human being, as a band-aid for your marriage, or as a ploy to "make someone love" you again. Seriously, a horrible idea.


Even more so I think this guy should run like hell if she is resorting to this. I know a few ladies that intentionally got prego because they thought it was a way to lock down their man.


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## vellocet

chaos said:


> I have to disagree with you folks regarding UF's last post.
> 
> If UF's husband CHOSE to forgive her for her affair, CHOSE to marry her and CHOSE to make a new start with her, it does not mean that he gets a "free pass" to go out and have an affair of his own - IF that is what UF found. So far BOTH have stayed faithful to each other AFTER they got married.


I agree it does not give him a "free pass". NOTHING justifies a "free pass".

But I also don't think he forfeits the right to not be ok with everything. Yes he married her, but the way he feels is the way he feels.




> Lastly, one could argue that IF UF's husband has been cheating on UF with her sister, then his affair is far worse than hers because it came AFTER he got married and KNOWING full well how devastating an affair is, he still went ahead and had one.


I disagree, even as horrible it is to do it with her own sister. But if her sister would entertain the idea of screwing UF's husband, what does that really tell us?

IMO, cheating is cheating and just because they got a piece of paper saying they are married, that does not negate the damage cheating causes.

Now the question is, is he messing around with UF's sister? Or is she counseling him via email about how to handle his wife?

We don't know yet. Either way, she wants to be forgiven, doesn't want to give out the same courtesy.

UF's mindset: I cheat on you, loved the idea of trying to get a MM to leave his family....forgive me. You cheat on me, I'm gone!



> IF, and I repeat, IF UF's husband is cheating, she's under no obligation to forgive her husband and stay married to him. .


You are correct. She has no obligation. But that fact doesn't make her any less of a double standard hypocrite.


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## vellocet

And lets face it. There is a reason UF decided to tell us she saw emails and didn't divulge details.....my guess is her sister was simply communicating with her husband and siding with him, not cheating.

If he was cheating with her sister, and felt that justified leaving the marriage, she would have said so.

So here are the only 3 possibilities, any one of us can choose which one seems more likely since UF was purposely vague:

1) UF's husband was seeking counsel from UF's sister and UF just didn't like what she saw.....making her desire to end the marriage silly if her H is trying to forgive for her cheating.

2) UF's husband was messing around with UF's sister, she wants forgiven for her cheating, won't forgive him for his, making her a double standard hypocrite(even though her sister betraying her adds a level of hurt)

3) This is nothing but a troll story.

Since she was purposely vague about the details of the emails, I'm leaning towards option 1.


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## Squeakr

We also need to take into account as per UF, the sister is the only one that knows and the H knows she is aware of the A. So he may be taking refuge in her as someone he can discuss it with, without revealing to others (although option 3 is looking very attractive right about now).


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## vellocet

Squeakr said:


> We also need to take into account as per UF, the sister is the only one that knows and the H knows she is aware of the A. So he may be taking refuge in her as someone he can discuss it with, without revealing to others (although option 3 is looking very attractive right about now).


Sort of what happened to me. I was talking to my x-wife's sister making sure her family, through her sister, knew what was going on and wasn't about to have the x lie to her family about me.

Her sister sided with me. That pissed my then stbX off. Could be what happened here with UF's sister and H


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## chaos

vellocet said:


> You are correct. She has no obligation. But that fact doesn't make her any less of a double standard hypocrite.


I can see that on the surface it would look that way but every spouse has different deal breakers and UF has hers. But consider also how hypocritical it is that he knowing how wrong it is to cheat, he nevertheless goes ahead and cheats. Whatever moral high ground he's had over UF, he forfeits it by cheating. Besides, who is to say she won't forgive him in the end? Her emotional outbreak does not constitute certainty of divorce.


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## Squeakr

chaos said:


> I can see that on the surface it would look that way but every spouse has different deal breakers and UF has hers. But consider also how hypocritical it is that he knowing how wrong it is to cheat, he nevertheless goes ahead and cheats. Whatever moral high ground he's had over UF, he forfeits it by cheating.


True. Assuming he cheated and is not just confiding in her sister. Of course this same hypocrisy has already been exhibited by her as she knew it was wrong to cheat as well yet did it. Can't excuse her either for the same thing. Or one could argue that she didn't think it was wrong in the first place so he is just using her standards as a meter to be measured against. Choose your poison here. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos

Hopefully she'll come back to update us all.


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## vellocet

chaos said:


> I can see that on the surface it would look that way but every spouse has different deal breakers and UF has hers. But consider also how hypocritical it is that he knowing how wrong it is to cheat, he nevertheless goes ahead and cheats.


I agree, but 1) at that point he probably no longer cares and 2) we have yet to see if he did in fact cheat. Due to UF's vagueness and flippant response to the emails, my guess is he simply was confiding in her sister and she was siding with him.

But if he is cheating, then yes, he'd be a hypocrite for that, but she is a hypocrite for telling us all here how she wants to be forgiven, she doesn't want to lose him, she made a mistake, blah blah blah.




> Whatever moral high ground he's had over UF, he forfeits it by cheating.


I completely agree.




> Besides, who is to say she won't forgive him in the end? Her emotional outbreak does not constitute certainty of divorce.


Nope, just shows her double standard.


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## GusPolinski

Any updates, unforgiven?


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## See_Listen_Love

theunforgiven said:


> I'm not sure. I will read updates every now and then. I'll also read the other threads to gain insights. But I probably won't be too active in here as the knives continually come out.


The tendency to black and white thinking is great among certain posters. Give them no more attention.


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## See_Listen_Love

Ah...the end....


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## vellocet

See_Listen_Love said:


> The tendency to black and white thinking is great among certain posters. Give them no more attention.


Seems she had her own black and white thinking in the end.

To paraphrase: "I deserve to be forgiven, but if I find something on my husband, to hell with him"


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## NoChoice

She and ole sis must be discussing a few things.


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## vellocet

We can all speculate as to what happened and have our own thoughts.

My thoughts are that he isn't cheating with the sister, and just confiding, and sister is siding with him. That and she wanted to be forgiven for her cheating, but wants to flippantly end the marriage for him getting her sister on his side.

I could be wrong though. He could be waxing the weasel with SIL


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## G.J.

My speculation

Her sis was comforting her hubby shortly after they got married as he was worried he had made a mistake

One thing led to another and hubby forgot which sis he was consummating with.

Married sis has now found out and gone home to mother to point finger of hate at little sis

How ever mother tells daughters to sort it out and so they take off their cloths and mud wrestle with winner takes all


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