# Is it normal to want the BS to badmouth the AP?



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I ask because sometimes I would love it if H would say something negative about his AP..the only thing he said was yes there is a chance she might have been using me. I would love it if he would run her down...but he doesn't and that kind of ticks me off. Is it normal for the WS to not want to say anything bad/negative about their AP?


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I wouldn't want her to. It says to me she is thinking of him. Good or bad I don't want her thinking of him.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

My H has badmouthed OW because she was emotionally blackmailing him prior to D-day (threatening to tell him about the A if he didn't leave me) so he said it became painfully obvious that she was selfish, entitled and clearly crazy. And he realized that she truly didn't care about him as a person. She only cared about him because he was her ego boost and she was incredibly needy to boot.

And OW actually told my H she was going to ruin his life. Of course in the same breath, she would also say she could make him happy and I could not. That they were good together, etc. Then she'd go back to telling him that he owed her and ending the A to work on his M was unfair to her.

So after all that drama, if he didn't have a bad thing to say about her, I'd be worried. That said, he doesn't bring her up. He said thinking about her only reminds him what a loser he must have been to attract such a loser of a woman.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes.

I've finally come to terms with the fact that this isn't going to happen.

Our excellent MC managed to get this much out of my FWH in the last session: because their affair lasted such a very long time, he did on occasion see her 'not at her best.' Not dressed to the nines, and also emotionally not her best--touchy, irritable, frustrated. 

But of course, not very much. The biggest component that keeps affairs afloat is their existence outside of reality. Both partners have a HUGE disincentive to disagree over ANYTHING. It stops being fun if all you're going to do is argue or show your bad side.

Affair partners don't usually have the ability to spend lots of time alone. They are conducting their relationship in the margins, in their spare time between doing work and taking care of a family and pretending to be faithful to you. (And all their other roles of child / sibling / friend / community member etc.)

There's another element, too. Infatuation is a biological trick that draws you toward another person. Here is how it works: it makes EVERYTHING about the other person attractive. They snort when they laugh? What could be cuter! They don't like your music--but they like some other kind that is interesting and exotic. Take anything about them that could possibly be annoying, boring, frustrating, or disagreeable, and flip it around to a positive. That's how infatuation works.

There is only one way to prove to your spouse that the AP is human too. That is for them to live together without you in the picture as a fallback (you divorced and moved on--while they have a fallback they will tolerate a whole lot more from their partner). Living together can cause rejection in as little as a few weeks, while in other cases people will slog it out for a few years. But eventually the vast, vast majority of these relationships will falter because they weren't based on the naked truth. (And many APs who do stay together do it because they can't bear to believe that they made a stupid choice and destroyed their prior relationship over a loser.)

It's true that most marriages begin (during the dating stage) with infatuation. So marriages can be based on this sort of denial of reality as well. But recall that two people who are dating have far more time to spend together than APs generally do. APs also often don't do other things that engaged people do--like meet everyone in each other's families. They also are careful not to share any of YOUR good qualities with the AP, something they'd discuss if they were unattached and just dating. 

I could go on and on, but you get the idea; their relationship is untested by reality. It's a fantasy fairytale. You can't squeeze lemon juice out of cotton candy.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> There is only one way to prove to your spouse that the AP is human too. That is for them to live together without you in the picture as a fallback (you divorced and moved on--while they have a fallback they will tolerate a whole lot more from their partner). Living together can cause rejection in as little as a few weeks, while in other cases people will slog it out for a few years. But eventually the vast, vast majority of these relationships will falter because they weren't based on the naked truth. (And many APs who do stay together do it because they can't bear to believe that they made a stupid choice and destroyed their prior relationship over a loser.)


Yes, I've read this as well and it scared me to death. 

Then I also read that sometimes the infatuation phase will fade if the A is longterm or if the OP becomes demanding, needy or annoying and ruins the fantasy.

Then the A becomes more trouble than it worth and the affairland fantasy bubble bursts.

I realize I'm very lucky in the sense that OW lost her mind and ruined her image for good. Although, my H did say he ended the A before she freaked out because he saw her for the annoying, needy person that she truly was and because his anger at me for our M problems was fading. Thankfully, she was never much of a fantasy A partner to begin with.

Anyway, I do think that as time passes and the WS falls back in love with their spouse, the good feelings of the A will also fade. And that helps ruin the fantasy as well.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Zanna said:


> Then I also read that sometimes the infatuation phase will fade if the A is longterm or if the OP becomes demanding, needy or annoying and ruins the fantasy.


This is essentially what happened to me. When I discovered they were STILL in their affair (I thought it was over) enough time had gone by that the bloom was somewhat off the rose (but not a lot, have to emphasize that--he didn't end it on his own). Meantime, I had gone about improving myself (for ME, not for him--I thought the affair was over).

I would never recommend outlasting the affair to anybody. If you actually KNOW they are still involved, it will destroy your self-esteem like nothing else. Some people do opt for this but I can't begin to conceive why.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

iheartL,

Your assessment is pretty much spot on. In a nutshell... living a life "outside of reality" pretty much sums it up well. 

My wife serially cheated for years before being caught. The last affair with OM3 was fairly short but ramped up to full blown EAPA in a matter of weeks (old college BF). Due to having extensive emails, cell text, and FB message/chats, I really got to "see" the speed and extent that an infatuation works in. 

My wife ran our marriage down to OM, in particular "a marriage that had no partnership... one that had built nothing together." My MC said that this was her way of justifying the affair. Regardless of truth, the ability to write it tells volumes (of what, not sure). 

In your analysis, you allude to the fact that AP can't do the "normal" things that dating couples do to strengthen their relationship, ie meet in public, introduce each other to friends and family, in general experience life outside a hotel bed. However, maybe they really don't want to. 

A little to much reality would sour the fantasy cool-aid perhaps. That being said... it seems today that with email, text, FB and such that a virtual relationship with an occasional hookup at the hotel no-tell strings along affairs now more than ever.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

During the A one of the ways I became aware of her was that he started to mention her ALOT. OW this, OW that. She hates facial hair, she thinks this, she does that, she said this etc. SO it came to the point where I said "I dont give a flying F about OW" to him. 

Now, about 4.5 months past dday I long to NEVER hear her name again. Good or bad. Just never. I dont want to think of her. I dont want HIM to think of her. Thats my utopia. So NO, I dont want him to run her down. I wouldnt believe him anyway. I would think he was just saying what I wanted to hear. I want him to never say her name again. For the most part-he doesnt unless I mention it first. Even then he only says "she" never calls her by name. To me the less of my life thats about her, the better.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

It is funny as well..I know H and I rarely use her name..there is something uncomfortable about using it. 

I guess I should look at it like that instead of wondering why can't he say anything bad about her..just let it go and realize that it is better to say nothing about her.

I think too that because the AP is usually very flirtatious, complimentary to the WS that of course the WS feels positive feelings toward this person. When someone pays you a compliment immediately you like them..that is only normal.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I would never recommend outlasting the affair to anybody. If you actually KNOW they are still involved, it will destroy your self-esteem like nothing else. Some people do opt for this but I can't begin to conceive why.


I completely agree. It would destroy my emotional and physical health to do that...

If I had found out about my H's A before it was over, I would have been his worst nightmare and OW's as well. I would've never competed with her or waited patiently while he "decided". I know myself well enough and if he had picked her over me, I'd have been gone and would've never looked back. Even if I wanted to R after that out of love, I wouldn't have been able to get over it. Picking me before I knew, actually gave him a shot at earning my forgiveness.

I know to this day, my H is still surprised that I didn't kick him out on D-day because he said that he would have bet money that I would have which is why OW's threats were so effective. And then he was even more surprised when he asked (or rather begged) me to at least try R and I agreed after much contemplation. I have of course changed my mind about a dozen times but here we still are 9 months later.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

personally even though we're finished i cant wait for theyre first argument, the bloom to fall off, or the OM man to finally realize what her needs (shes got VERY serious physical issues severe spinal degeneration which im sure he doesnt know) are and to run away.

on one level i know i shpuldnt care cause my m isnt worth saving.
shes a serial cheater.

but unfortunatley i do care. i cant get passed it yet.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Zanna said:


> I know to this day, my H is still surprised that I didn't kick him out on D-day


This is our situation, too.

My H was very wounded by the state of our marriage before. If I had to take it to a subconscious level, he had to do something worse than I ever did so that he was the one who had to be forgiven, instead of me. Affairs are twisted ways of being--the duality, the betrayal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> This is our situation, too.
> 
> My H was very wounded by the state of our marriage before. If I had to take it to a subconscious level, he had to do something worse than I ever did so that he was the one who had to be forgiven, instead of me. Affairs are twisted ways of being--the duality, the betrayal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can relate to this as well.

My H felt rejected by me and honestly, he was. I was contemplating divorce (even bought the book) and had emotionally and sexually rejected him long before the A. That said though, I did try to reach out to him prior to withdrawing and he didn't want to listen. He wanted to rug sweep. He was relatively happy, in love with me and I don't think his ego could take the rejection. I see us as equally to blame for our troubled M but I do think that by suggesting MC, reading books and trying to communicate, I at least tried to solve things in the more mature way. Resorting to an A was all on him and unfortunately when the Karma bus hit him, it ran over our entire family as well.

However, blaming at this point does not do either of us any good so I am trying to focus on the future. After all, do I want to be happy or do I want to be right?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

In my case I was the rug sweeper..H would try and come to me with his concerns re: my lack of affection, no intimacy, feeling like we were roomates, etc. and I didn't want to deal with it. It made me uncomfortable to talk about senstive subjects. I so regret being like that...I could kick myself for not realizing what he was going thru and instead just thinking we would just exist. 

I remember thinking he would never leave me...it seems so arrogant on one hand but I don't think that is the frame of mind I was in, it was more just a very very way too comfortable level in my marriage. Definently I felt like I had a roomate and not a husband for many years..I just chose to live with those feelings and not do anything about it.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

highwood said:


> In my case I was the rug sweeper..H would try and come to me with his concerns re: my lack of affection, no intimacy, feeling like we were roomates, etc. and I didn't want to deal with it. It made me uncomfortable to talk about senstive subjects. I so regret being like that...I could kick myself for not realizing what he was going thru and instead just thinking we would just exist.
> 
> I remember thinking he would never leave me...it seems so arrogant on one hand but I don't think that is the frame of mind I was in, it was more just a very very way too comfortable level in my marriage. Definently I felt like I had a roomate and not a husband for many years..I just chose to live with those feelings and not do anything about it.


Hindsight is always 20/20 right?

The only thing you can do now, is recognize your mistakes and go forward with forgiving yourself for not being perfect. After all, who among us was the perfect spouse?

Anyway, I do think I eventually became a rug sweeper myself and was resigned to just live with my negative feelings so I get it. I threw myself into my career and ignored my M and we too became friendly roommates. I think I also felt my H would not truly leave me and I guess I was right about that because he said he couldn't do it and would have never done it but I would have rather had him leave than have an A!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Absolutely true about hindsight!

My sister said to me this was the most effective wakeup call you could have had and that is so true. I don't know if there was anything else that would have woken me up to the state of my marriage so effectively.

I think the frustration I feel inside is seeing how loving, flirty the OW was in her emails and then how I with my up and down emotions act at times..makes me angry inside like is he comparing me to her. Of course she is all sweet and roses..they don't see each other in person, plus it is all online for months and months. They have zero baggage together. ..while H and I have 24 years of baggage together.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

highwood said:


> I remember thinking he would never leave me...it seems so arrogant on one hand but I don't think that is the frame of mind I was in, it was more just a very very way too comfortable level in my marriage. Definently I felt like I had a roomate and not a husband for many years..I just chose to live with those feelings and not do anything about it.


I don't remember thinking this, but I did act like it at times. I was so intensely frustrated with our situation and I unfairly took it out on him. I did try to turn things around but I didn't realize I was super late to that party.

Zanna, I also am like you, I just refuse to be miserable. No rug-sweeping going on, but no self-flagellation, either. There has to be something worth saving, or why bother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

He says he does not think about her at all and hates her for putting the moves on him. He says it makes him sick that he did nothing to stop it.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Krichali said:


> This post was so well written. I was so impressed. I actually printed it out and got my WH to read it. I very rarely ask him to read anything about infidelity, usually we talk instead; but this was so neat and clear and said everything so well I wanted him to really grasp it. Thanks for writing, iheartlife.


You are kind to say that.

While my H's long term (emotional?) affair may make readers of this forum flinch, and wonder how I could stand it, I have to emphasize that I was unaware that he was in it for the vast majority of its duration. (I was totally ignorant about how affairs function.)

What I hope I can share then, is a longer term perspective. I am over 3 years out from DD#1.

Two things stood out that my H said when he ended it with the AP. One was, he acknowledged he couldn't fully trust that she wouldn't have cheated on him. The second was, he recalled something I had said after DD#1, which was similar to what I said above--that the relationship wasn't tested by reality. It helps that she wanted to work full time and also had a child, and her main marital complaint was that her H wanted her to be the sole housekeeper. Well, that would have been tough for my H; he needs someone who does MORE house care / yard work / car maintenance, not less.

It was never enough for my H to end it on his own. I always have to emphasize that. But at some point, the fact that you have very compatible personalities--with nothing more than that--doesn't cut it in choosing a life partner. My WS was able to understand this. Not every WS will.

This is the sort of mundane stuff that new affair partners don't want to think about. They will actively turn their minds away from practicality because the affair is, by definition, a means of escape from depression, boredom, stress, etc. They want to believe--they _need_ to believe--that infatuation conquers all.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's normal to want the BS to badmouth the AP. Anything negative said about the AP makes the BS feel better. Fact of life.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> It's normal to want the BS to badmouth the AP. Anything negative said about the AP makes the BS feel better. Fact of life.


Not exactly. if I'm trying to understand why my partner wants to extinguish any resources on the OW, I would like to know truthfully what is so attractive, physically or otherwise, about the OW.

The situation I'm in now is the my bf can't say anything positive about his EA and so I don't understand why he felt the need to chase her then.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Not exactly. if I'm trying to understand why my partner wants to extinguish any resources on the OW, I would like to know truthfully what is so attractive, physically or otherwise, about the OW.
> 
> The situation I'm in now is the my bf can't say anything positive about his EA and so I don't understand why he felt the need to chase her then.


My H has nothing postive to say about OW now because he's not in the 'fog' of an A. He sees her for her. Once those chemicals stop raging in their brains(fog) and they come back to reality-She doesnt look nearly as good to them as she used to. The only explaination I can come up with. She is just an average girl. But boy could she stroke his EGO. There is likely your answer-his ego.
A man's ego can be a very dangerous thing to a marriage.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> My H has nothing postive to say about OW now because he's not in the 'fog' of an A. He sees her for her. Once those chemicals stop raging in their brains(fog) and they come back to reality-She doesnt look nearly as good to them as she used to. The only explaination I can come up with. She is just an average girl. But boy could she stroke his EGO. There is likely your answer-his ego.
> A man's ego can be a very dangerous thing to a marriage.


That explains it to some degree. I sometimes wonder if it's because he liked having two women on the go. He's a nerd and didn't have those early BMOC type experiences (big Man on Campus). 

I also think that he might have liked that in your face kind of behaviour. Her e-mails and texts to him comes across as very aggressive and demanding. So guess who stepped her game a little bit.....it's worked like a charm.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I hear you about the stroking ego thing...when I look at the emails between H and his OW on her part there was lots of Hi Handsome, I love you forever, I miss you sooooo much, I love you baby, and on and on. To me it almost borders on overdoing it after a point. I said to him after so many months online didn't it get kind of old after a while..

I wonder about that two women thing as well...It pissed me off last week because I noticed that on Valentine's day he had a 30 minute online chat with her. THe same day that he gave me a nice card and texted me to tell me he loved me...**** that pisses me off. Must have made him feel like a hot stud..having two women to deal with on V Day.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> My H has nothing postive to say about OW now because he's not in the 'fog' of an A. He sees her for her. Once those chemicals stop raging in their brains(fog) and they come back to reality-She doesnt look nearly as good to them as she used to. The only explaination I can come up with. She is just an average girl. But boy could she stroke his EGO. There is likely your answer-his ego.
> A man's ego can be a very dangerous thing to a marriage.


Though I want to add- HE doesnt really speak of her AT ALL. But if I ask something he will answer. Sometimes positive but mostly not. I like to call her 'A cup' isnt that mean????? It just strikes me b/c he is a boob man and ??????? Not that I have big ones but an 'A' when he's a boob man wouldnt have been what I would have thought he'd pick. No rhyme or reason to her at all other than she stroked and stroked.(hopefully only his ego.)


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> I ask because sometimes I would love it if H would say something negative about his AP..the only thing he said was yes there is a chance she might have been using me. I would love it if he would run her down...but he doesn't and that kind of ticks me off. Is it normal for the WS to not want to say anything bad/negative about their AP?


My STBEH only started bad mouthing the OW, when she started doing some obnoxious things and spreading weird rumors. 

At first he defended her, she was sweet and kind, etc and a good person. WTF?

I was ambivalent about him bad mouthing her. 

I liked it, but then I remembered that he was badmouthing me, too, in the emails. 

So, how could he think she was wonderful and then that suddenly changed. It was confusing and it confused me all the more about who my husband was as a person.

It's like his love and affection changes on a whim. 

Also, as others have mentioned, sometimes I thought it was just an excuse for him to think about her and stay connected to her. 

He brought her up a lot in a negative life during our initial false recovery.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I have my names for OW as well...usually I call her a piece of ****.

I said to H that I noticed on some of the online conversations that were transcribed that it sounded like she was trying to end it quickly..I said to him it is probably because she wanted to take a big huge **** and was having trouble keeping it in. Crude I know and less than lady like but I can't help it..I get so angry at times at what they were doing behind my back....I don't normally talk like that at all but in the heat of anger man it is hard to hold back sometimes.....


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## Mrs1980 (May 6, 2011)

I think my H was attracted to the office skank was obviously looks and physique but he freaked out turning 30. I made the mistake during my 30th b-day vacation to ask: "hey can we talk about plans for kids?"..We got married really young and didn't want any then but things change. Neither of us are super set on a time or if we are going to have them...but I made the mistake of asking-hey let's at least start talking about some "adult" things. He got super freaked-no eye contact...so I said forget the convo..in tears...Little did I know he had his little office wife on the side.

Office skank is 5 years older than me but out at every bar til 2am, has no plans of every settling down, and is a vacuous twit.
They didn't have to talk about adult things like having kids, paying bills, sick family members, etc. To this day I just want him to say, "what was I thinking?". I accept she is better looking than me. I accept that she has a better body than I do. But I want him to say how dumb she is, how shallow she is, how morally bankrupt she is. I guess b/c it's so hard to accept that he would be attracted to someone so different personality wise from me. 

He thought he was making things better during one of our arguments: he said "oh I thinks she hot b/c she looks a lot like you"...I'm part Cherokee Indian and part Welsh....Let's just say he never said anything like that again lol :rofl:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Zanna said:


> I realize I'm very lucky in the sense that OW lost her mind and ruined her image for good. Although, my H did say he ended the A before she freaked out because he saw her for the annoying, needy person that she truly was and because his anger at me for our M problems was fading. Thankfully, she was never much of a fantasy A partner to begin with.


Lucky? That is an odd word to use. There were lots of reasons for me to be angry at my husband. 

The MCs all pointed out that I likely had more reason to have an affair than he did, based on his behaviors and entitlement attitude bestowed on him by his doting parents. 

I came from a large family and my parents although kind and loving did not have the time to dote on only me.

My STBEH also dumped the OW when he saw her needy nasty side. 

I at first I felt lucky. Wow, he chose me. Than I started thinking about that. 

Chose me? WTF, we have been married 20 years. He chose me 20 years ago. What the heck was he doing dating another woman while married to me. There is no excuse under the sun for it other than a sense of entitlement, uncaring, unconcern and selfishness.

Also I started thinking about what I got by being the one he chose instead of her.

Well, I realized what I got was a cheater. 

The OW still wins because her faithful husband who pampers her and spends a fortune on her, and she is a big spender on frivolous items, is staying and the fact my husband chose me and let her go, actually did her a favor.

Lucky her, she could have ended up with my cheating spouse who is not as wealthy as her loving faithful husband.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

highwood said:


> I ask because sometimes I would love it if H would say something negative about his AP..the only thing he said was yes there is a chance she might have been using me. I would love it if he would run her down...but he doesn't and that kind of ticks me off. Is it normal for the WS to not want to say anything bad/negative about their AP?


My H did after he told me about his ONS. It did not help me at all to hear him bad mouth OW because* it felt like he was blaming her for his choices *and I wanted him to take responsibility for his actions. It did _not_ make me feel better and then the two of them started a fight over the internet blaming one another (she was married to and busted by her H from the same thing that made me suspicious of them, her own little erotic blog about their time together). She said some nasty things about me as well. All together that week was a waist and very sad. 

No way does it help because no amount of hostile words towards the AP from WS is going to make it better as in my case it made it worse.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Lucky? That is an odd word to use. There were lots of reasons for me to be angry at my husband.
> 
> The MCs all pointed out that I likely had more reason to have an affair than he did, based on his behaviors and entitlement attitude bestowed on him by his doting parents.
> 
> ...


It is funny how your mind works in these situations. Last month at MC I made a comment to the counsellor that I am grateful that H gave me a second chance...after I thought WTF. He should be saying that to me instead of me to him..he is the one that cheated and ****ed up badly. Sure I was responsible for my share of the marriage woes prior to his EA but he alone is responsible for his EA. For me to be grateful that he has chosen to work on our marriage...we have been together for 24 years..that alone was reason enough...*he should be grateful to me.*

It is almost like your mind plays tricks on you and you find yourself in these situations saying and doing things that you look back later and think what was I thinking?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> It is funny how your mind works in these situations. Last month at MC I made a comment to the counsellor that I am grateful that H gave me a second chance...after I thought WTF. He should be saying that to me instead of me to him..he is the one that cheated and ****ed up badly. Sure I was responsible for my share of the marriage woes prior to his EA but he alone is responsible for his EA. For me to be grateful that he has chosen to work on our marriage...we have been together for 24 years..that alone was reason enough...*he should be grateful to me.*
> 
> It is almost like your mind plays tricks on you and you find yourself in these situations saying and doing things that you look back later and think what was I thinking?


I empathize.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Lucky? That is an odd word to use. There were lots of reasons for me to be angry at my husband.
> 
> The MCs all pointed out that I likely had more reason to have an affair than he did, based on his behaviors and entitlement attitude bestowed on him by his doting parents.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I guess that was a strange choice of words. But I didn't mean "lucky" in the sense that he picked me. Believe me, I don't feel lucky that I'm married to a cheater either but in my case, I wanted out of the M myself and had told my H this prior to the A. Granted, he should have listened to my concerns and worked on the issues instead of getting angry and hurt and turning to a skank. That said, if our M had been good and we were having sex (my H was one of those rare cheaters that really was in a sexless M), his A would have been a dealbreaker. BUT my H is very remorseful and has done a complete 180 in behaviour and attitude. 

Anyway, I meant by the use of the word "lucky" that I was happy that OW turned out to be such a loser. It was an ironic twist of fate that she was clearly the bunny boiler type of OW because that only made the A look even stupider (Karma Baby). And if there was a small part of me that worried about a fake R...well that went out the window when her crazy antics intensified. My H acted like an idiot by handling M problems with an A but he's not so stupid (I hope) as to go back to a woman he discovered was a complete wingnut and one we needed to send a Cease & Desist to...


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

IHeartL,

"Affairs are twisted ways of being--the duality, the betrayal."

One small sentence... to those of us that have been betrayed... "the duality"... it is something, yes so twisted that I will never really understand.


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