# huge blow out



## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

So I am not trying to make excuses for myself, but now I'm in a real bind. 

5 years ago I had a daughter with my now ex-husband who died at birth. We also had a 6 year old son who went through the traumatic experience with us. Since then we have divorced and I have remarried an ass of a man. 

2 weeks ago it was her 5th "birthday" and it was a hell of a week. I was extremely depressed. I decided that on her birthday I would hire a babysitter for my husband's daughter (I watch her all summer) and go to the mall and spend the day pampering myself. I ended up meeting my ex and son for lunch so we could talk to my son and have him open up. He has been dealing with depression and anxiety. I texted my husband telling him that I got a babysitter and I was headed to the mall. He responds with "how much are you paying her?" Then I got mad. I work full-time as a teacher, take care of the house, watch his kids. And he makes six figures. I told him that the sitter was doing it for free so I can have time for me. 

Yesterday he found out that I had lunch with my son and ex and was so angry saying that I lied and that I always shut him out, and that if I want to hire a babysitter then we aren't going on dates anymore, and basically just went off on me. 

There is absolutely NOTHING left between my ex and I, but we do share this memory and I feel that it's important for my son to be able to celebrate his sister with us. 

I shared this with my husband who was still freaking out saying I lied. I ended up telling him the truth that I am afraid of him and his reactions sometimes. Then he got even more angry. I tried expressing that he goes out with his ex-wife when they need to talk to their daughter about something important and that she texts and calls all the time when it comes to the kids. I expressed that my ex doesn't and when he wants to have a conversation with our son...then we need to be able to do that. 

I ended up apologizing and telling him that I will not keep things from him anymore. But he just stormed off angry. 

I think this is the end. And part of me thinks he wants me to leave, but likes playing the "good guy" in every relationship fail.


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

First off, sorry about your daughter. I have two daughters of my own and I just can't imagine that. I always tear up when I hear/read stuff like that.

Second, your H's reaction just plain sucks. No sympathy at all for what that day means to you. It's awful that you had to deal with that, given the circumstances of your daughter's birthday. Your husband just sounds selfish and insecure.

Do you have any kids with your current Husband? If you don't, it would seem to be an easier break from him if need be. You could always try MC, if you want to save anything. However, it seems like there might not be much there, given what you have said.

Good luck and keep us updated.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> Yesterday he found out that I had lunch with my son and ex and was so angry saying that I lied and that I always shut him out, and that if I want to hire a babysitter then we aren't going on dates anymore, and basically just went off on me.


I'd be furious too, you have very poor boundaries. I'd think you were having an affair. You should NOT be playing house with your ex and son while your husband is at work. You can grieve privately, I see no reason this needs to continue. He's your ex for a reason, that ship has sailed. Your husband is the only man you should be out on dates with, period.



Katiemelanie said:


> There is absolutely NOTHING left between my ex and I, but we do share this memory and I feel that it's important for my son to be able to celebrate his sister with us.


You sure there's nothing left? Doubtful, you're having an EA with your ex while you justify it by telling everyone here what an "ass" your husband is. Your son can celebrate separately with his dad, who are you fooling? This meet up is for YOU to cake eat. 

We can't help you if you lie to yourself. You came here looking for validation for poor behavior, not the truth.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> it's important for my son to be able to celebrate his sister with us.


Sorry but WTF?

Why should your son celebrate a sister he never had? Why are you hanging on to the unfortunate death of an infant and making it a cause for celebration? This is quite an unnecessary weight to put on your son, your ex-husband and yourself. 

You have a son with your ex-husband and you still feel the need to 'share' this tragic memory every year? Why? 

As for your current husband, I have a feeling he's wondering the same thing as I am.


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

pistal said:


> ^^Harsh.
> 
> You missed the part where he too, goes out with his exwife.
> 
> ...


Agree.... Given what the day means to the OP wrt her daughter, I'm inclined to think there is no real issue with meeting up with the ex and her son. 

Only fault I can really find is the failure to let her husband know that she was meeting with ex.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Wow, @Katiemelanie. No parent should ever suffer through the loss of a child but to have your current husband get angry at you for sharing your pain with the other people all impacted by your child's death is adding insult to injury. 

Based on your other threads on TAM, your current H is a selfish a$$ with little empathy for anyone else but himself. He's also got serious anger issues. You know this. Why are you still with him?


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

Wait...what? First off...this was about 2 parents talking to their son. Not having an affair. The thought of being with my ex husband is sickening. Plus he's gay. But I do take my son very seriously and he is battling serious depression. As far as me still in grief over my dead daughter??? I don't need to explain that to anyone. It was extremely depressing and I'm not holding on to the grief or trying to bring my son into it, but he was affected greatly and this is one of the things that many counselors have told us to do. I cannot believe some of the posts on here. This was not a grief that was private. It involved my son and he DID have a sister. All this was (and this was explained) was my son's father and I talking to him and allowing him time to share his thoughts and letting him know that we are both there for him. But what it really comes down to is that my kids come first. My husband wasn't mad about "this" but was mad that he had no control over the situation. He is extremely controlling and I am never "allowed" to leave the house without a child with me. He blames it on babysitting costs (but he makes over six figures and I have a full-time job). He even enrolled his daughter in my school that I teach at. I have never cheated on anyone or even thought about it, and he knows this. I didn't tell him about this because I knew exactly what would have happened. He would have flipped out. But this has nothing to do with him. We both agreed that we need to be there for each other and our kids. He has a weird relationship with his ex where she calls all the time at all hours of the night/day. My ex rarely calls or is there for his kids. So yes, I was very excited for him to have a chance to talk with his son. And unless you have had a dead baby, or have had your child experience this...you don't know the pain. And making it a "just get over it" kind of thing doesn't happen. I wish it did, but it doesn't.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> I'd be furious too, you have very poor boundaries. I'd think you were having an affair. You should NOT be playing house with your ex and son while your husband is at work. You can grieve privately, I see no reason this needs to continue. He's your ex for a reason, that ship has sailed. Your husband is the only man you should be out on dates with, period.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you have been hurt or betrayed in the past. I'm sorry. But If you read my other post you would understand a little better. It sounds like YOU have trust issues and I hope that you get help for them. I'm not having an affair. I will always share my son with my ex...that's just part of it. I wasn't doing this so that I could play house with my ex. lol. I played house with him for 10 years and that didn't work out for a reason. He is happily married...to a man now. I didn't leave anything out.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

synthetic said:


> Sorry but WTF?
> 
> Why should your son celebrate a sister he never had? Why are you hanging on to the unfortunate death of an infant and making it a cause for celebration? This is quite an unnecessary weight to put on your son, your ex-husband and yourself.
> 
> ...


I know it may sound weird, but he did have a sister. And he still talks about her all the time. We chose to celebrate what we did have and to acknowledge her. It won't make sense unless you have experienced a similar tragedy. People grieve in their own way and there is nothing wrong with that. My son doesn't share much but he needed some time alone with us. I will always be there for him. This isn't a "weight" that we are putting on ourselves. It is just there and having a day to remember her is healthy. We have all gone through counseling and grief groups, and talked with many people in the same situation...it's better to talk about it then to hold it in because it will not go away. This was more of a time to tell our son that we will always be there for him and he can talk about whatever he wants.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> I will always share my son with my ex...that's just part of it.


Yeah and I share my kids with my ex. What I don't do is hang out with her and my kids when my gf is not around and pretend to still be one big happy family. It's not appropriate and you're confusing the child. You want to spend family time? Do it with your family (ie your CURRENT husband and kids / step kids). Instead of this weird double life thing you got going on. Kids gasp the concept of mom and dads house. It's an adaptation but kids usually adapt far better than adults.

I get you don't agree, that's fine but not everyone would be tolerant of having two separate families as you seem to be. I don't blame your husband at all except for allowing this to go on for so long. I'd have told you to pound sand a long time ago. I know you're not having an affair, why lie to anonymous people on the internet? But its not like we've never heard the "he's gay" excuse on the CWI forum and it ought to raise alarms for your husband when he finds out you got a babysitter for his kid so you could go spend time with an ex.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah and I share my kids with my ex. What I don't do is hang out with her and my kids when my gf is not around and pretend to still be one big happy family. It's not appropriate and you're confusing the child. You want to spend family time? Do it with your family (ie your CURRENT husband and kids / step kids). Instead of this weird double life thing you got going on.
> 
> I get you don't agree, that's fine but everyone is a tolerant of having two families as you seem to be. I don't blame your husband at all except for allowing this to go on for so long. I'd have told you to pound sand a long time ago. I know you're not having an affair, why lie to anonymous people on the internet? But its not like we've never heard the "he's gay" excuse on the CWI forum and it ought to raise alarms for your husband when he finds out you got a babysitter for his kid so you could go spend time with an ex.


I don't have a double life. He is not there...ever. This was a one time thing. I don't think you will really get that I'm not sneaking around or living a double life. We won't see eye to eye on this and that's fine. I respect your opinion, but I want to be very clear that "allowing this to go on for so long" isn't relevant because this hasn't been going on for so long. It was a lunch conversation one time with our son and for our son.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Fair enough. We will disagree...

At least admit you should of told your husband about the mall meet up with your ex BEFORE you went.

You withheld it because you knew he would be upset. A lie of omission is still a lie.

It's not like it just slipped your mind until he asked you, "So what did you do today?"


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Why should your son celebrate a sister he never had? Why are you hanging on to the unfortunate death of an infant and making it a cause for celebration? This is quite an unnecessary weight to put on your son, your ex-husband and yourself.


I am shocked by this cruel and heartless post. WTF?!


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Fair enough. We will disagree...
> 
> At least admit you should of told your husband about the mall meet up with your ex BEFORE you went.
> 
> ...


Sort of. (and this is the god's honest truth) I was going to tell him but as soon as I said I was going to the mall he flipped out on me about spending money on a babysitter. I told him (and it was true) that she was babysitting for free and he continued to flip out on me. I told him today that I didn't tell him for a couple of reasons. One, I am afraid of him when he gets mad. Two, it didn't seem like a big deal since he just had ice cream with his daughter and his exwife so that they could talk to her, and three, because as soon as that day was over...I wanted to move on and not talk about my daughter anymore. And it was a lie and I apologized to him for that. And I know that I broke his trust. But it's a whole lot deeper than that. I should be able to talk to him about anything.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> I ended up meeting my ex and son for lunch so we could talk to my son and have him open up. He has been dealing with depression and anxiety.



Is this the same son that your husband pushed in anger?


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## Sure that could work (Jun 9, 2015)

I am sorry you lost your precious daughter. 5 years is a hard anniversary, I found 7 was the worst myself. I am glad you had someone to share those feelings with. I wish that your current husband would/could share that with you. But I totally understand the importance of the day. It's hard when some people in your life don't think it is important to keep the memory alive of your baby.

The blowup was a terrible way to end a day filled with sweet, sorrowful memories........(((((hugs))))))


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> I should be able to talk to him about anything.


I 100% agree and if you can't that's something you both need to work on immediately. Whether in marriage counseling or amongst yourselves.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

coffee4me said:


> Is this the same son that your husband pushed in anger?


Yes.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

coffee4me said:


> Is this the same son that your husband pushed in anger?


Through his yelling he got upset that I didn't take my step-daughter to lunch too. I said that I needed for my son to talk to us with no distractions. He would never share his feelings with her there and she is with us all the time. I don't think he was upset about me having lunch or by me not telling him. He was upset that I did something that he couldn't control. I also think he is very jealous of my son.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> I 100% agree and if you can't that's something you both need to work on immediately. Whether in marriage counseling or amongst yourselves.


Yes. We are working on this ourselves because he refuses to spend money on a counselor. I have tried the normal approaches, self-help books, individual counseling, but I am concerned at this point that there is something mentally wrong with him. I don't say that lightly. I get that we all have issues, but he gets extremely angry and goes from 0-100 in a split second where I'm afraid he is going to kill us when he is driving like a maniac. He is always yelling so that all the neighbors can hear, constantly putting us down, he has slapped me in the face, pushed my son, ignored me for days. I told him today that I am afraid of him and he immediately turned into a victim. He got upset over that. I can't win and I'm tired.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> Yes. We are working on this ourselves because he refuses to spend money on a counselor. I have tried the normal approaches, self-help books, individual counseling, but I am concerned at this point that there is something mentally wrong with him. I don't say that lightly. I get that we all have issues, but he gets extremely angry and goes from 0-100 in a split second where I'm afraid he is going to kill us when he is driving like a maniac. He is always yelling so that all the neighbors can hear, constantly putting us down, he has slapped me in the face, pushed my son, ignored me for days. I told him today that I am afraid of him and he immediately turned into a victim. He got upset over that. I can't win and I'm tired.


I think you win by getting out. He doesn't sound like somebody that either you or your son should be around long-term. He pushed your son and slapped you - you do realize that's abusive, right?


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Your son is 11 suffers from anxiety and depression and you have him living in a house with a volatile, angry, abusive man. He has put his hands on you and your son in anger and endangered your lives by driving erratically when angry. 

What is there to think about? You need to leave him NOW! If not for yourself do it for your son, he does not deserve to live in that environment.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

KM, I am sorry that you are here and here are my observations:



There is no prescribed way to remember your daughter her and nothing will ever take your love for her away. Everyone grieves and remembers and honours their parted beloved in different ways. I think celebrating her brief life once a year is fine and if your son knew his sister it is even more important to help him through this. So good for you. And my deepest sympathy for your loss.


You have a thug for a husband and I think you know it. You just need to find a way to untangle yourself from him. He is not the right person for you and will eventually damage you (and your son) even more than he has done (physically and emotionally). Drop him like a lead balloon.


I understand completely why you didn't tell your husband that you were meeting up with your ex and son (not a good thing generally but in this case completely understandable). You are quite simply afraid of your POSH (new term I think: H = husband).


Interesting to know that your ex-H is gay - is that why the two of you split up ?


Take care of yourself and your son - come back for more advice - there are many here who can help.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> KM, I am sorry that you are here and here are my observations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. I think I do need to leave. I wrote my husband a long letter this afternoon with everything that needs to stop. I'm giving him one more chance. I have given him plenty, but I am a fighter. I just need to be held accountable because I am not in a good spot right now. I'm becoming severely depressed.

My ex came out recently, but we both knew he tried for too long  I have no hard feelings towards him. We were both really young when we got married and he gave me beautiful children who I love with all my heart.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Does your ex know that your H physically abuses you and HIS son?

Your husband would vanish overnight if he did that to my kid and you would be in the shyt house for putting him there and not leaving him afterwards.

There is no question that you need to be through with this idiot.

The only real question is, What is wrong with you?

Are you so messed up that you don't see clearly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I remember posting that you should leave him after he pushed your son. Your husband is a hot head and cheap, he makes enough money for you to afford a babysitter once in a while so you can do activities on your own. He doesn't appreciate all you do for him. I agree it's time to leave him. It will be sad for his children that you spend time with but you have to think of you and your children first.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Does your ex know that your H physically abuses you and HIS son?
> 
> Your husband would vanish overnight if he did that to my kid and you would be in the shyt house for putting him there and not leaving him afterwards.
> 
> ...


Good question. I don't know. I seriously don't know why I can't get out. And it is so easy to see that I have to. I don't want to be a statistic. I am smart and intelligent, so why the hell am I doing this to myself? I have gone to counseling and I have a ton of support. I guess I am holding on to hope that things are going to change, but I know they're not. So I need to be held accountable. It's all cyclical...when things are good they are great and then as soon as it gets bad again my feet feel like they are in cement. I'm emotionally exhausted and I'm weak. I know that nobody can make this choice except myself. And it really helps talking about it because in a weird way it does give me strength and I know I can do it.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Wow First Katiemelanie I am sorry for the loss of ur daughter, the ass of a man ur married to and the people in here that project their problems onto you. I only wish I had the power to read minds. A parents grief and loss are that parents and how they deal with it is between them and their therapist. BTW where is the room at the mall to fool around with ex's? My local mall needs one it would probably make a fortune. If you care about someone you support them, in happiness and sadness, for richer or poorer. If you get jealous when ur W meets with her ex that is ur problem until you have proof something is happening. If she is doing the same thing u do (taking care of a child) then you help them dont condemn them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> I'd be furious too, you have very poor boundaries. I'd think you were having an affair. You should NOT be playing house with your ex and son while your husband is at work. You can grieve privately, I see no reason this needs to continue. He's your ex for a reason, that ship has sailed. Your husband is the only man you should be out on dates with, period.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you miss the part that her husband does the same thing with his ex.. they apparently go out much more.



Katiemelanie said:


> I tried expressing that he goes out with his ex-wife when they need to talk to their daughter about something important and that she texts and calls all the time when it comes to the kids. I expressed that my ex doesn't and when he wants to have a conversation with our son...then we need to be able to do that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Katiemelanie said:


> I know it may sound weird, but he did have a sister. And he still talks about her all the time. We chose to celebrate what we did have and to acknowledge her. It won't make sense unless you have experienced a similar tragedy. People grieve in their own way and there is nothing wrong with that. My son doesn't share much but he needed some time alone with us. I will always be there for him. This isn't a "weight" that we are putting on ourselves. It is just there and having a day to remember her is healthy. We have all gone through counseling and grief groups, and talked with many people in the same situation...it's better to talk about it then to hold it in because it will not go away. This was more of a time to tell our son that we will always be there for him and he can talk about whatever he wants.


I am sorry for your loss. I know it's hard to deal with. I lost twins at birth some years ago. This sort of loss lingers for a long time. I remember people telling me to just get over it. Psst.. that comes mostly from people who are clueless.

It looks like your son was 1 or 2 at the time of your loss. I'm surprised that he remembers a sister. Did he ever meet her?

Everyone deals with grief in their own way. Your son's depression at such a young age is very concerning.

If it has gotten so bad with your husband that you do not feel safe telling him things like you got a baby sitter, then the trust is gone from your marriage.

Are you considering divorce? That might be your best option here.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I am sorry for your loss. I know it's hard to deal with. I lost twins at birth some years ago. This sort of loss lingers for a long time. I remember people telling me to just get over it. Psst.. that comes mostly from people who are clueless.
> 
> It looks like your son was 1 or 2 at the time of your loss. I'm surprised that he remembers a sister. Did he ever meet her?
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Leslie Morgan Steiner: Why domestic violence victims don't leave | TED Talk | TED.com


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that one of the major reasons that you seem unable to leave is that the task it too big, over whelming.

It's like trying to move a mountain.. you cannot just move a mountain.. come on, it's too big.

But if you start with some big equitment, you could move it one dump truck at a time. And then one day you will look up and find that the mountain has been moved.

What does that have to do with you? You need a plan.. an exit/safety plan. Each step of the plan is like the dump trucks. Work one at a time, day by day and then one day you will have only one step/task left.... the one that says get in the car and drive away. And that last step will be easy.


So here is an exit plan for you, you can tweak it as you please. But please use it.



Call 911 and they will help you get away.

If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 1 800 799 7233.

========================================

It is very hard to leave a marriage. Boy do I know that from experience. There is a way to make it easier… having a plan and having a strong support system. Just work your plan one step at a time. That way you are not look at a huge problem. Instead you are looking at small steps. 

If you search on the internet for "domestic abuse exit plan" or "domestic abuse safety plan" a lot will come up that you can look over. The one below is one that I added some things to base on my own experience.

Get a support system:



Find a local organization that provides counseling and help for victims of domestic abuse (emotional and physical). Get into counseling with them. They will have sliding scale counseling.


Also check into legal aid in your area.



Talk to attorneys and do research on the internet to find out your rights in divorce. Be informed. Check out legal aid in your area. Ask the domestic abuse organization if they have a list of attorneys who do pro-bono work or very low fee work and how specialize in cases of divorce with domestic abuse. Most will have such a list. Many attorneys will give a half hour free consultation. If you have a good list of questions, you can learn about your rights and how the local court system handles specific issues. You might even find an attorney that you really like.


Let a trusted family member, friend, coworker or neighbors know your situation. Develop a plan for when you need help; code words you can text if in trouble, a visual signal like a porch light: on equals no danger, off equals trouble. 


Set up a ‘safe address’ and ‘safe storage space’. If you have a trusted friend/family-member, ask them if you can use their address for some things and if you can store some things at their place… like a box of important papers. If you do not have someone who will help you out in this way, rent a PO Box and a small storage space. Use the ‘safe addresses for your mail. Use the ‘safe storage space’ to keep important things you will need like:



your mail from the ‘safe address’


All account info and ATM card for your personal checking account


Copies of all financial paperwork, filed tax forms, etc.


Certified copies of birth certificates, marriage license, passports, 


Car title, social security cards, credit cards, 


Citizenship documents (such as your passport, green card, etc.) 


Titles, deeds and other property information 


Medical records


Children's school and immunization records


Insurance information


Verification of social security numbers Make sure you know your husband’s Social Security Number and your son’s. 


Welfare identification


Valued pictures, jewelry or personal possessions

Your safety Plan: this is so that you can leave immediately if things get out of hand.


Know the phone number to your local battered women's shelter. 


Keep your cell phone on you at all times for dialing 911. It’s best to dial 911. You need to establish a record of his abuse. So call 911 and start creating that record. If you think that it is not safe for you to leave, ask the 911 operator to send the police so that they can ensure your and your child’s safety when you leave.


If you are injured, go to a doctor or an emergency room and report what happened to you. Ask that they document your visit. 


Keep a journal of all violent incidences, noting dates, events and threats made. 


Keep any evidence of physical abuse, such as pictures. 


You can get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times when you are around your husband. This way you can get recordings of the abuse. 


Plan with your children and identify a safe place for them. Reassure them that their job is to stay safe, not to protect you.


If you need to sneak away, be prepared. Make a plan for how and where you will escape. 


Back your car into the driveway, and keep it fueled. Keep your driver's door unlocked and other doors locked for a quick escape. 


Hide an extra set of car keys. 


Set money aside. Open a checking account in your name only and put your paycheck (or a portion of it) in that account. Do not use the address of the home you live in with him for this checking account. Use your ”safe address” to the account and keep all of the paperwork related to the account in your “safe storage space”. 


Pack a bag. Include an extra set of keys, IDs, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, credit cards, marriage license, clothes for yourself and your children, shoes, medications, banking information, money" anything that is important to you. Store them at a trusted friend or neighbor's house. Try to avoid using the homes of next-door neighbors, close family members and mutual friends. 


Take important phone numbers of friends, relatives, doctors, schools, etc. 


Know abuser's schedule and safe times to leave. 


Be careful when reaching out for help via Internet or telephone. Erase your Internet browsing history, websites visited for resources, e-mails sent to friends/family asking for help. If you called for help, dial another number immediately after in case abuser hits redial. 


Create a false trail. Call motels, real estate agencies and schools in a town at least six hours away from where you plan to relocate.

After Leaving the Abusive Relationship 

If you get a restraining order, and the offender is leaving: 



Change your locks and phone number. 


Change your work hours and route taken to work. 


Change the route taken to transport children to school. 



Keep a certified copy of your restraining order with you at all times. 


Inform friends, neighbors and employers that you have a restraining order in effect. 


Give copies of the restraining order to employers, neighbors and schools along with a picture of the offender. 



Call law enforcement to enforce the order. 


If you leave: 


Consider renting a post office box or using the address of a friend for your mail. Be aware that addresses are on restraining orders and police reports. Be careful to whom you give your new address and phone number. 


Change your work hours, if possible. 


Alert school authorities of the situation. 


Consider changing your children's schools. 


Reschedule appointments if the offender is aware of them. 


Use different stores and frequent different social spots. 


Alert neighbors, and request that they call the police if they feel you may be in danger. 


Talk to trusted people about the violence. 


Replace wooden doors with steel or metal doors. Install security systems if possible. Install a motion sensitive lighting system. 


Tell people you work with about the situation and have your calls screened by one receptionist if possible. 


Tell people who take care of your children who can pick up your children. Explain your situation to them and provide them with a copy of the restraining order. 


Call the telephone company to request caller ID. Ask that your phone number be blocked so that if you call anyone, neither your partner nor anyone else will be able to get your new, unlisted phone number.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Well, what I was going to say just didn't measure up to what Elegirl listed out.

KM, I hope you take EG's advice and run with it.

Freedom beckons.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Call me insensitive all you want, but I still don't understand why an allegedly already depressed child needs to grieve or "celebrate" (as the OP calls it) the death of a sister he never actually had.

No he did not have a sister. He should've never been exposed to the idea of "death" at such a young age, let alone the death of a sister that he never got to meet. That was extremely careless parenting. 

How do you so proudly continue with your grieving in front of a child? It makes no sense. He should have been shielded from all these negative feelings (I actually do understand and sympathize with you over them). Don't you know that children automatically feel 'guilt' when parents express negative feelings? Hasn't a counselor told you not to ever put your son in a situation where he might doubt his own purity? When you say "we went through it together" what do you mean? Was he exposed to the sheer drama of death? WOW

No one expects you as the mother of that infant to "just get over it", but it was and still is absolutely vital for your son to feel little to no impact. Do you really still bring this up to him and perhaps let him fantasize over what happened to this somewhat imaginary 'sister' figure? For what purpose?

I also don't see much love between you and your current husband. What are you doing with him? From your posts I see little to no respect between you two and a dysfunctional dynamic with frequent moments of abuse. How is this helping your son in any way? 

Give your son some priority and change the life he's living. Also please get him out of the whole "my dead sister" vortex. He doesn't deserve it. He had nothing to do with the infant that passed away at birth. NOTHING.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Call me insensitive all you want, but I still don't understand why an allegedly already depressed child needs to grieve or "celebrate" (as the OP calls it) the death of a sister he never actually had.
> 
> No he did not have a sister. He should've never been exposed to the idea of "death" at such a young age, let alone the death of a sister that he never got to meet. That was extremely careless parenting.


:redcard:

*FFS synthetic read the OP's first post.

HER SON WAS 6 YEARS OLD (NOW 11) AT THE TIME OF HIS SISTER'S BIRTH.*

Do you think a 6 year old does not know when his mother is pregnant for 9 months with his baby sister or brother?

Do you think mothers and fathers do not talk to their other children about the developing baby sister or brother?

Do you think 6 year old children do not grieve?

:slap:


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> :redcard:
> 
> *FFS synthetic read the OP's first post.
> 
> ...


Yes. They grieve, but in a very different way than an adult. They don't really understand "death" at that age and they certainly don't miss or grieve the absence of someone they have never met. That's my point. Why wasn't the whole "promise of a sister" delayed and reconstructed as "didn't happen this time, but will in the future".

My mom gave birth to my sister exactly when I was 6. I remember it vividly. I only started understanding the concept of a sister when they brought her home, started feeding her and she cried endlessly. That's when I realized "Oh Sh1t! It's really a human and I have to share my parents with her". Just like every other child I didn't like it at first and the rest is history.

My point is, her son has absolutely no association, attachment, memory or even real feelings for that infant. The baby was simply a fantasy to him that he didn't get to experience. To him, it wasn't much different than a Disney trip that never materialized. 

Yes, my parents spoke to me about the upcoming birth of my brother/sister and I clearly remember my mom being pregnant. She would even let me feel the baby's kicks. Still, I had no real feelings for her. This continued for even weeks after she was born. That's how a 6 year old boy thinks.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Katiemelanie said:


> Good question. I don't know. I seriously don't know why I can't get out. And it is so easy to see that I have to. I don't want to be a statistic. I am smart and intelligent, so why the hell am I doing this to myself? I have gone to counseling and I have a ton of support. I guess I am holding on to hope that things are going to change, but I know they're not. So I need to be held accountable. It's all cyclical...when things are good they are great and then as soon as it gets bad again my feet feel like they are in cement. I'm emotionally exhausted and I'm weak. I know that nobody can make this choice except myself. And it really helps talking about it because in a weird way it does give me strength and I know I can do it.


You are like the frog who doesn't jump out of the boiling pot of water. Why? Because it was heated slowly. If he'd started out your first date with a slap to the face, would you have stuck around? Hell no (at least I hope not!). 

At some point, if you don't leave this abusive relationship, there will be a young man who might never recover. You owe him more than that, as his mother. You owe him so much more.

So sorry for your loss.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Katie,

You have put your son (and yourself) in a very dangerous, unhealthy situation. Of course your son in anxious. But it's not because of his deceased sister. It's because YOU have placed him in a very volatile and negative environment, forcing him to live with a maniac. What a lousy way to grow up.

If you won't leave for yourself, will you at least do it for your son? You are supposed to be his protector, and right now he sees very clearly that you are not protecting him at all.

The first day that man laid a hand on your child is the day you should have walked out.

I feel very sorry for your son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Get your son out of this situation. My wife was the oldest. Had 2 little brothers. When her dad used to start on her little brothers she would step in and took the brunt of it. She would fight her dad to protect her brothers.


She raised her brothers and became their mother while their real mom kept leaving him after a beating and then go right back.

He said he was sorry, he won't do it again.

MIL had dentures as he knocked all her teeth out and then drove her 3 states away to his sisters house...not so much as a Dr or dentist.

My wife married first POSWH and moved out and did not talk to her mother for YEARS. Blamed her( rightly so )for keeping them in this **** for YEARS.

That SOB finally committed suicide as my wife would never talk to him again. Glad he did it before we married. I would have shot that child raping bastard without a second thought. That would have made for good family reunion discussion.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

synthetic said:


> Call me insensitive all you want, but I still don't understand why an allegedly already depressed child needs to grieve or "celebrate" (as the OP calls it) the death of a sister he never actually had.
> 
> No he did not have a sister. He should've never been exposed to the idea of "death" at such a young age, let alone the death of a sister that he never got to meet. That was extremely careless parenting.
> 
> ...




I'm going to have to ask you to stop responding. I appreciate your thoughts, but saying my son didn't know his sister or care because that was "your" experience does not mean that my son felt the same. We have been going to counseling about this. This is not the issue I needed to talk about. Your posts are coming across very rude and it's making me angry. Until you have gone through something like this I don't take anything you say seriously. It just pisses me off. People grieve differently. And he is still grieving but it's not because we celebrate her once a year. He held his sister, said goodbye to her, and was very aware of everything that went on and happened. I tried to shield him from as much as possible. DO NOT RESPOND ANYMORE PLEASE.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

Red Sonja said:


> :redcard:
> 
> *FFS synthetic read the OP's first post.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I just asked him to stop responding. His posts are hateful and ignorant. He has no idea what happened and for that I am grateful. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but when someone spews ignorance like they know what they are talking about...I just stop listening.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I think that one of the major reasons that you seem unable to leave is that the task it too big, over whelming.
> 
> It's like trying to move a mountain.. you cannot just move a mountain.. come on, it's too big.
> 
> ...


Holy moly! Thank you thank you thank you! I really appreciate all of this. I actually have started moving stuff secretly to my moms. And I am taking these steps, but I am going to copy this and refer to it daily. Thank you for taking the time to do this and responding to my other posts. I appreciate it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok Katie, you can ask people to leave your thread because you don't like what they're saying. But how how about responding to my post (copied below)? My points are all valid. I would like to know why you have placed your son (and trapped him) in a horrible situation.



happy as a clam said:


> Katie,
> 
> You have put your son (and yourself) in a very dangerous, unhealthy situation. Of course your son in anxious. But it's not because of his deceased sister. It's because YOU have placed him in a very volatile and negative environment, forcing him to live with a maniac. What a lousy way to grow up.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Sorry but WTF?
> 
> Why should your son celebrate a sister he never had? Why are you hanging on to the unfortunate death of an infant and making it a cause for celebration? This is quite an unnecessary weight to put on your son, your ex-husband and yourself.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this. Your son was quite young when this happened and it seems to me that you are putting your son thru undue distress by "celebrating" this annually. You deserve your day of mourning but I would not continue expecting your son and ex husband be a part of this.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> I have to agree with this. Your son was quite young when this happened and it seems to me that you are putting your son thru undue distress by "celebrating" this annually. You deserve your day of mourning but I would not continue expecting your son and ex husband be a part of this.


I didn't read it as a day of mourning, but as a day that a family got together to support each other, on a day that they all remember the loss of a family member.

I'm not sure what everyone else is imagining, but it's as if you think she was screaming and wailing while flaying herself with a whip and forcing her son to watch. 

A father, mother, and son got together over a lunch to talk to each other and spend time together. If they had done that any other day no one would have cause to be upset, but because they did it on the anniversary of a family member's death, suddenly it's a horrible thing.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> I'm afraid he is going to kill us when he is driving like a maniac. He is always yelling so that all the neighbors can hear, constantly putting us down, he has slapped me in the face, pushed my son, ignored me for days. I told him today that I am afraid of him


Why did you think this was not worth mentioning in your original post? This completely changes things. It's one thing to quarrel with you husband over babysitting fees, it's a whole different story to find out you're married to a wife beater. No wonder you, "can't be open with him" about everything.

The minute he slapped you, you should have called the police, got a restraining order and left him. He has a violent temper and you can't allow your child to grow up in that environment. If you will not leave, then you MUST force him to seek anger management therapy at MINIMUM if he wants this marriage to continue. You will never forgive yourself if he escalates this and it only has to happen once for another tragedy to occur.

PLEASE consider the advice given in this thread. Get help ASAP.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok Katie, you can ask people to leave your thread because you don't like what they're saying. But how how about responding to my post (copied below)? My points are all valid. I would like to know why you have placed your son (and trapped him) in a horrible situation.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes, you do have points. As far as me doing this to my son...let me be very clear in that my husband was NOT like this when we dated and first got married. It wasn't like I was saying "oh I can't wait for my son and myself to live in an unhealthy environment" It was a slow progression and most of the things that have happened made me question my own sanity. For example: We were arguing one day and I was sitting at the table. I sat the whole time listening and then went back to my work. I have learned that there is no reasoning with him when he is angry. I acknowledge him and that's about it. He walked away upset and threw his usual temper tantrum. A few hours later he said he would appreciate it if I didn't walk away from him when he was talking to me. For a few moments I thought I was insane. Did I walk away and not remember this? And this is not the first time he has gotten mad at me for something that he himself did in those moments. Last week was when I figured out that I am not going crazy that this is all in his head. 

In my other posts I have stated that I AM leaving. But I am being very cautious about it and working with my counselor. My son in never alone with my husband. I am not making excuses, but I am NOT in a situation where I can just leave for so many other reasons. But our bags are packed and in the car and the moment that anything happens again...then yes...we will be gone in a second. Until then I am using this time (especially I since things are fine at the moment) to get everything together.

I didn't come here for judgment. I came here for help. I don't need to justify why I do/don't do something because it would be impossible to post the whole story. But I can tell you that I used to hate these stupid abused women who wouldn't leave their men. Now I get it. It's completely bizarre and that is why I am telling EVERYONE and leaning on all my support because when I do leave it has to be for good and I have to be smart about it. Because I would be stupid to think for one second he wouldn't come after me or try and destroy me, my career, everything that I have worked for.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> I have to agree with this. Your son was quite young when this happened and it seems to me that you are putting your son thru undue distress by "celebrating" this annually. You deserve your day of mourning but I would not continue expecting your son and ex husband be a part of this.



Thank you for your amazing and insightful reply to how people should or shouldn't mourn or talk to their children about mourning. I mean he was six, what does he know? He probably doesn't remember anything anyways? And forget what all the counselors and statistics have told us we should be doing. 

Our day together is more for him. A day where we celebrate life and spend time ALONE with him. He picks the restaurant and what we do. If he wants to talk he can talk...if not...he doesn't have to. We are not wearing black, bringing out pictures, or even crying. As far as my ex-husband is concerned. He is my child's FATHER! So of course he would be there.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> Thank you for your amazing and insightful reply to how people should or shouldn't mourn or talk to their children about mourning. I mean he was six, what does he know? He probably doesn't remember anything anyways?


Katie, you come here asking for help. But when people offer you thoughtful, cogent advice you lash out at them.



Katiemelanie said:


> Last week was when I figured out that I am not going crazy that this is all in his head.


You only figured this out last week, after your husband has hit you IN THE PAST, and pushed and shoved your son IN THE PAST? 



Katiemelanie said:


> My son in never alone with my husband. *I am not making excuses, but I am NOT in a situation where I can just leave for so many other reasons.* But our bags are packed and in the car and the moment that anything happens again...then yes...we will be gone in a second.


Yes, I'm afraid you are making excuses. Every day you stay is one more day that you make an excuse to justify his [email protected], abusive behavior.



Katiemelanie said:


> Until then I am using this time (especially I since things are fine at the moment) to get everything together.


Everything is not "fine" now. Maybe for you because hubby is behaving at the moment, but I can assure it's not "fine" for your son who is walking on eggshells, wondering when the next time is that he will be pushed, or even hit. Or when his mom will be. 



Katiemelanie said:


> I didn't come here for judgment. I came here for help... But I can tell you that I used to hate these stupid abused women who wouldn't leave their men. *Now I get it.*


No, you really don't get it. No one is judging you. We are looking out for the welfare of your son. Abused women are caught in a negative cycle of abuse. They rationalize, justify, make excuses, and trick themselves into believing that "everything is ok" now. Simply because their man hasn't raised his ugly temper in awhile.

Please look into all of the wonderful resources EleGirl mentioned. And stop rationalizing. Because there is no rationale for keeping your child in an abusive situation.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Katie, you come here asking for help. But when people offer you thoughtful, cogent advice you lash out at them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have read EleGirl's post and I have said that I am doing them. As far as me figuring it out the last week...I was talking about how it wasn't in my head when he was accusing me of doing what he does. Yes...I am lashing out because I'm pissed off.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> Yes...I am lashing out because I'm pissed off.


Ok, but ask yourself. Who are you really p*ssed off at? I doubt it's your fellow TAMers. 

More likely, it's your husband. 

And even more likely? You're p*ssed off at yourself for even being in this situation.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

OP, a few things:

First, I'm so sorry about your daughter. I've never been a mother so I can only imagine the pain and grief you and your family have been through. I'm sorry.

I don't think it's odd or weird to come together with your son and exH to observe the day of your daughter's passing. It's up to you and your family on how to observe this day. I'm having a hard time understanding those who are chastising your decision.

I'm glad you're taking the steps to leave. It took me 12 years to leave! And that's with no children. So I get it. I took a full year to get my ducks in a row so I could leave. At the end, I had a bag packed, too, just in case. I would sleep with my keys and phone under my pillow or under my bed. Sick, isn't it? What we put up with? It's not so bad, right? Wrong. We both know it's terrible and undeserved.

Both you and I know it'll never get better. I understand that you're trying to find the 'perfect time' to leave. But here's the pisser-there's never a perfect time. Your H will use this latest event as an excuse to rage at you and your son. If he's anything like my ex BF, I swear he got off by raging at me. Any excuse he had to rage, he took it.

The longer you stay, the more dangerous it will become. What are you waiting for?

See, your son is in the mix here. If it were only yourself, that's one thing. I'd still advise to leave ASAP. But your son has no voice in this. He is a hostage and prisoner in his own home as long as your H is in his presence. Doesn't matter that they're never left alone together. Since your son doesn't have a voice or a choice, you should be his voice. You're not being fair to him. Or yourself.

Please use every available resource you have, the info EleGirl posted, and please leave. Today. Your son will respect and love you so much more for it. Please protect your son and yourself. You deserve a far better life than what you've got.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, but ask yourself. Who are you really p*ssed off at? I doubt it's your fellow TAMers.
> 
> More likely, it's your husband.
> 
> And even more likely? You're p*ssed off at yourself for even being in this situation.


I'm angry that I am in this situation...not angry at myself, because I didn't put myself here intentionally. YES...I know I need to get out. And I take full responsibility for that. I'm not mad at my husband. I think he is crazy and needs help. But I am mad at some of the TAMers because it is so easy to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do in situations that they have never been in. And I'm not just talking about me leaving. I have also gotten some really good advice that I am taking. But the people who are asking me "why did you do this?" and "why didn't you do this?" or even bringing up why I still grieve for my daughter don't understand that my explaining it just won't make sense. and that isn't helping. It's just making me harp on the fact that I shouldn't have gotten married to this man, a man that was caring and loving, and I was head over heels in love with.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> OP, a few things:
> 
> First, I'm so sorry about your daughter. I've never been a mother so I can only imagine the pain and grief you and your family have been through. I'm sorry.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. I'm sorry you had to go trough all this :/ But what did you do when you were having a "good" day because that is where I am at right now. I know I have to leave and I know I will eventually leave...it's coming, but I feel myself closer to the door when he is yelling than I do when he is at work and just texted "I love you".


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> *But I am mad at some of the TAMers *because it is so easy to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do in situations that they have never been in... But the people who are asking me "why did you do this?" and "why didn't you do this?" *or even bringing up why I still grieve for my daughter* don't understand that my explaining it just won't make sense. and that isn't helping.


I appreciate where you are coming from. With all due respect, I have not said a word about your infant daughter or the appropriateness/inappropriateness of how you have dealt with your grieving. Quite frankly, I think you are entitled to grieve any way you see fit. Assuming that you are dealing with it in a healthy way.

My concern is for YOUR safety and well-being, as well as your son's (who is a minor, who CANNOT fend for himself, who is subjected to whatever adults throw his way).

I only hope that you can see that all of my advice is well-intentioned, and in NO way is meant to be punitive or judgmental.

Please read and re-read @lucy999's advice. It is clear, cogent, and on-point.

Katie, you AND your son deserve far better than this.

As far as feeling sorry for your husband, you can help him find the proper resources for his likely mental illness (given how much he has CHANGED since you met him) once you are operating from a distance. You can involve his family, hand his treatment off to them, all while you and your son are safely squared away.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> But what did you do when you were having a "good" day because that is where I am at right now. I know I have to leave and I know I will eventually leave...it's coming, but I feel myself closer to the door when he is yelling than I do when he is at work and just texted "I love you".


The good days meant I was in major denial and rugsweeping all of it. And that's not a judgment of you, but of myself. It's amazing how our brain can compartmentalize things. Eventually, thankfully, we led separate lives. He had finally gotten a job (he had a horrible work ethic) on the night shift. I wouldn't have been able to stay as long as I did otherwise.

And I need to point out a major difference between you and I. I hadn't loved my ex BF for years. I cared about him as a human being-that's it. I knew something was egregiously wrong and he was sick. I wanted to help him not as my BF, but as a fellow human being. 

Truth be told, I was in it to get at least an nth of the money I had spent supporting him. You're in love with your H and that makes things far more complicated.

I wish I had the magic words to help you get that 'lightbulb' moment. I can say, though, that whatever your H has got going on, it's beyond your control. You're not the appropriate person to help him, you'd be way out of your league. And, you're too close to the situation. Even if you were able to help him, he wouldn't let you. Because for some reason, he views you as the enemy and treats you as such. You're the last person he'd let help him. 

Lastly, know that your H is a narcissist. It's always about him-you and your son are secondary and forever will be. That's a hard mentality to change on your own. This will sound harsh-there's no gentle way to say it, but don't believe him when he tells you he loves you. He doesn't. He loves what you do for him and how comfortable you make things for him. He loves that he can treat you less than human. He loves that he can bully you whenever he wants. He loves raging. 

I hope you make the decision to leave sooner rather than later. I'm willing to bet my meager paycheck that you would see a difference in your son almost immediately. Hell, when I finally left, both of my dogs were totally different animals. It's amazing, disturbing, and enlightening to witness.

Wishing you strength. If I can do it, you can too. Life is so sweet without him!


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> The good days meant I was in major denial and rugsweeping all of it. And that's not a judgment of you, but of myself. It's amazing how our brain can compartmentalize things. Eventually, thankfully, we led separate lives. He had finally gotten a job (he had a horrible work ethic) on the night shift. I wouldn't have been able to stay as long as I did otherwise.
> 
> And I need to point out a major difference between you and I. I hadn't loved my ex BF for years. I cared about him as a human being-that's it. I knew something was egregiously wrong and he was sick. I wanted to help him not as my BF, but as a fellow human being.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head with that statement. If you knew everything I do...I'm almost embarrassed to say it. I work full-time as a teacher. He has a daughter with special needs that he adopted by himself and I am with her 24/7. She comes to school with me and is with me all summer while he works. I do the laundry and if I accidentally dried his shirt..he throws a fit and tells me not to touch his laundry and if I don't touch his laundry he throws a fit that I didn't do his laundry. I cook, I clean, do the yard work, watch his kids, do the grocery shopping...everything. I make my own money but because it's a quarter of what he makes...he doesn't think that I am contributing. I often feel like he loves having me around because he manipulates and bullies me to do what he wants. I have tried putting my foot down, but I also like keeping the peace. This is when I realized it's not even worth it. He doesn't see value in me other than being a "mom" to HIS kids and a servant. And I do believe that he loves raging. I think it makes him feel good. If he's not raging at me...it's at his special needs daughter. I see the look in her eyes...she's defeated. There have been so many times I wanted to step in and protect her. I didn't. I just called CPS. I become frozen in fear and I have told him before that he scares me and then he gets mad at me for feeling that way. He's the worst when his other 2 kids come over. I have talked with their mom about this. He's so stressed out and angry. He likes to play the martyr and the victim. It's infuriating.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> I'd be furious too, you have very poor boundaries. I'd think you were having an affair. You should NOT be playing house with your ex and son while your husband is at work. You can grieve privately, I see no reason this needs to continue. He's your ex for a reason, that ship has sailed. Your husband is the only man you should be out on dates with, period.
> 
> You sure there's nothing left? Doubtful, you're having an EA with your ex while you justify it by telling everyone here what an "ass" your husband is. Your son can celebrate separately with his dad, who are you fooling? This meet up is for YOU to cake eat.
> 
> We can't help you if you lie to yourself. You came here looking for validation for poor behavior, not the truth.


Unless there's another thread somewhere in which OP has indicated that she's in an EA w/ her ex, I can't see how you've arrived at this.

Losing a child is a traumatic experience. Additionally, whatever OP and her ex are to each other now, they'll always have that between them. Always. Plus they still have a son to co-parent together.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Bless you for being a teacher! You obviously have the patience of a saint to put up with your H and school-aged kids LOL.

Yep, your H, in some weird way, gets off on raging. I would ask my exBF what he saw, felt, and thought when he'd go into his rages. I called them 'rage fugues' because he acted like he wasn't in his right mind. Almost like he left his body and someone else was in it. He told me he would see 'red' and not remember.

Welp I called BS on that because guess what? He'd always destroy MY property, but never his. His prized collection of records, his computer, his grandfather's keepsakes? Nope. Untouched. My first, NEW CAR? Hood dented w/in 6 months. He went into a fit of rage and as I tried to get away, he jumped on my hood. He knew exactly what he was doing. Couldn't remember, my azz. Even now, 4 years later, writing this out and seeing it in black and white is alarming. And angering. I'm so damn angry. Where was that anger when I needed it the most? I can't believe I put up with that sh*t. You don't have to put up with that baby b*tch **** your H is throwing at you. He's an immature bully you'd encounter on the playground at recess. In third grade.

I agree, it's infuriating and ridiculous. To think he can act like a bratty 5-year old boy is beyond comprehension. But he gets away with it so why should change course, KWIM?


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Bless you for being a teacher! You obviously have the patience of a saint to put up with your H and school-aged kids LOL.
> 
> Yep, your H, in some weird way, gets off on raging. I would ask my exBF what he saw, felt, and thought when he'd go into his rages. I called them 'rage fugues' because he acted like he wasn't in his right mind. Almost like he left his body and someone else was in it. He told me he would see 'red' and not remember.
> 
> ...


I think my problem is that most of the abuse is emotional and verbal. It sounds like your ex was very physical. I have a hard time knowing what is acceptable normal marriage arguments and what is abuse. I try and push for it being as normal as possible, and maybe I am just overreacting. I am writing a letter because this will be MY closure. I am strong willed and can't just go without giving my last 2 cents. 

Dear T,

By now you are probably confused as to why we are gone, or maybe you saw it coming. I am sure you are extremely angry right now, but I encourage you to calm down, sit down, and read this by yourself. And when you read it…please read the entire letter from start to finish. 

When I first met you I instantly fell for you. You were kind, thoughtful, caring, gentle, and everything that I had hoped for in a partner. I thought I found my soul mate. I was so happy. I fell in love with you and your children immediately. Then things changed. My love for you hasn’t changed. I know there is a man inside you that is the same man that I first fell in love with. But something happened and it was a gradual happening that got worse and worse as time went on. 

Things started to go sour. And I am partly to blame for not leaving the situation sooner. I am partly to blame for allowing you to talk to me, to your children, to my children the way that you have continued to. It’s unacceptable and abusive. I know you may not think so, but it is. I have held on to hope that things would go back to normal…to the way they were when we first met. Maybe hope is why I have been holding on for so long, and why things have gotten worse. 

If you do not change….C and K will find men JUST like you. And I encourage you to think about that really hard and what that means. I know for a second that you would not allow any man to treat your daughters how you treat me, or them. The yelling has to stop. The manipulation has to stop. The guilt trips have to stop. 

I also wanted to tell N and M that they do not have the right to talk to the women that they supposedly love the way that you talk to me. And that I will always protect my children. No man has the right to touch my children in a negative way. Ever. No man has a right to bully my son. The way that you continue to talk and mock N is bullying. There is no other name for it. It's not funny and I see the hurt in his eyes every time. 

Right now I know that you are probably pacing and angry and trying really hard to blame this all on me. Or pretend that you don’t know what I am talking about. I am not telling you all of this to try and make you feel bad, but to call it how it is because I KNOW this is not what you want. 

The past year has been a lot more downs than ups. I have tried to keep the peace, but can no longer. I felt trapped and controlled. And I know that your intentions were not to make me feel this way, or at least I hope not. 

I became “mom” to K when it was convenient for you, and she was “your daughter” when you didn’t like how I disciplined her. I did almost everything in the house and worked full-time. I was there for you when you needed it, and was there for you when you needed a punching bag. No more. I suffocated. Not allowed to hire a babysitter, feeling guilty about taking time for me (or for my kids), putting you first all the time, allowing myself to be last in every single situation. When I needed time away with you and told you that I wanted to go away for my birthday, we stayed home so we can watch C be a flower in a play and that weekend never happened. You guilt tripped me into staying home instead of going out with my friends because you had something planned for me. I did get a card with $2 in it. I felt “great” by the way. And when our anniversary weekend came up you promised to take me away the next weekend, but then you wanted to take the kids to the play. Your intentions are wonderful for the kids, but I felt like an afterthought. I have told you over and over what I need. And its just pushes aside. 

I told you what I needed in this marriage. I told you that we needed to make this home ours instead of just yours. There is nothing in this house that it mine. I had been sleeping on a nasty mattress that you brought all your former girlfriends on, I have been using old dishes from your first marriage. When I finally found dishes that I really liked…well you know what happened. 

You have an excuse for every behavior and action that you do so that you are always the victim or a martyr. You are not a martyr. You are not doing anyone any favors. You are not the victim. You are a grown ass man who is so insecure you take out your rages and anger on the people who love you the most. 

I realize that I cannot change this. That I cannot change you. That changing is something that YOU are going to have to want to do.

But I cannot stay in this situation any longer. It isn't fair to you, myself, or my children.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Unless there's another thread somewhere in which OP has indicated that she's in an EA w/ her ex, I can't see how you've arrived at this.
> 
> Losing a child is a traumatic experience. Additionally, whatever OP and her ex are to each other now, they'll always have that between them. Always. Plus they still have a son to co-parent together.


I wrote that before I found out the ex husband was gay and the current husband is a violent abuser. She left a lot out of the story...

I still don't think she should be meeting up with the ex and her child privately while keeping it from the husband regardless of the reason. Her current husband should have be consoling her, and meeting her emotional needs which include grieving, not the ex. 

However, come to find out she clearly has much BIGGER problems than hanging out at the mall.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Katiemelanie said:


> I have a hard time knowing what is acceptable normal marriage arguments and what is abuse. I try and push for it being as normal as possible, and maybe I am just overreacting.


Being slapped in the face is not normal or acceptable in a marriage, EVER.

Staple your letter to the divorce papers, include a restraining order, and have him served.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Unless there's another thread somewhere in which OP has indicated that she's in an EA w/ her ex, I can't see how you've arrived at this.
> 
> Losing a child is a traumatic experience. Additionally, whatever OP and her ex are to each other now, they'll always have that between them. Always. Plus they still have a son to co-parent together.


I agree.

In regards to the cheating accusations, BD, you are in danger of seeing that in every woman, regardless of what is actually there. You will never see a woman clearly with your "women are cheaters" glasses on, and the person who will be most hurt by that will be you.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

breeze said:


> I agree.
> 
> In regards to the cheating accusations, BD, you are in danger of seeing that in every woman, regardless of what is actually there. You will never see a woman clearly with your "women are cheaters" glasses on, and the person who will be most hurt by that will be you.


I see women just fine but thanks for your blasé concern. I do the same thing everyone else does. Take the facts presented to me and form an opinion. You're entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine. I already gave the OP my two cents and she can take it for what it's worth. If you insist on rehashing something resolved 4 pages ago, I'd prefer you didn't derail the OP's thread. If you've got a problem not related to the OP then PM me.

For the last time, in case anyone else want to chime in, it's not unreasonable for OP's husband to be upset or assume something was going on when A) she's spending alone time with an ex and B) she lied (omitted) about doing so to her SO. Are you okay with your SO hanging out privately with an ex then not telling you about it for weeks? DOUBTFUL. Your red flags would be up too so please stop acting like this line of thinking is out of left field...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

breeze said:


> I agree.
> 
> In regards to the cheating accusations, BD, you are in danger of seeing that in every woman, regardless of what is actually there. You will never see a woman clearly with your "women are cheaters" glasses on, and the person who will be most hurt by that will be you.


In all fairness, I'd be willing to bet that BD would've come to the same conclusion w/ respect to OP's relationship w/ her ex had she been male and her ex female.

It's not that BD or any of other the BHs here (myself included) are misogynists (well, at least not ALL of us)... it's just that we see the potential for adultery in pretty much every relationship, and by either partner. Oh, and we also tend to realize that many people (Hell, maybe even _most_) just innately suck.

And let's face it -- most of the folks posting new threads here (in CWI, anyway) are male.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> I see women just fine but thanks for your blasé concern. I do the same thing everyone else does. Take the facts presented to me and form an opinion. You're entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine. I already gave the OP my two cents and she can take it for what it's worth. If you insist on rehashing something resolved 4 pages ago, I'd prefer you didn't derail the OP's thread. If you've got a problem not related to the OP then PM me.
> 
> For the last time, in case anyone else want to chime in, *it's not unreasonable for OP's ex to be upset or assume something was going on when A) she's spending alone time with an ex and B) she lied (omitted) about doing so to her SO. Are you okay with your SO hanging out privately with an ex then not telling you about it for weeks? DOUBTFUL. Your red flags would be up too so please stop acting like this line of thinking is out of left field...*


This is a valid point. That said, OP mentioned that the purpose behind spending the time w/ her ex was so that their son could spend time w/ both of his parents simultaneously on his little sister's birthday. Seems legit to me. After all, losing a sibling can be a pretty traumatic experience, even for a 1-year-old. 

Having said that, OP lying to her husband about having spent the time w/ her ex (not to mention that she didn't tell him about it up front) is what makes this such a big deal.

But why didn't she trust her husband enough to tell him? Why couldn't he be there w/ her to provide comfort and support? These are pretty important questions as well, and if the answers to any of them are what led to her lying to him (and, having read through the thread, I think that's pretty likely), she's right to consider divorcing him.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

synthetic said:


> Sorry but WTF?
> 
> Why should your son celebrate a sister he never had? Why are you hanging on to the unfortunate death of an infant and making it a cause for celebration? This is quite an unnecessary weight to put on your son, your ex-husband and yourself.
> 
> ...


I am very sorry about the loss of your daughter. 

But - I have to agree with the above post. Why are you "celebrating" a daughter you didn't have, a sister your son didn't have? I somehow doubt that will help him grieve...rather, it's gotten him stuck.

You and your son should go to family counselling. It might help you grieve the loss and move on.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I am very sorry about the loss of your daughter.
> 
> But - I have to agree with the above post. Why are you "celebrating" a daughter you didn't have, a sister your son didn't have? I somehow doubt that will help him grieve...rather, it's gotten him stuck.
> 
> You and your son should go to family counselling. It might help you grieve the loss and move on.


TPS reports. LOL. sorry. We do go to counseling...see above posts. I have already answered this question and unless you have dealt with something similar...


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> This is a valid point. That said, OP mentioned that the purpose behind spending the time w/ her ex was so that their son could spend time w/ both of his parents simultaneously on his little sister's birthday. Seems legit to me. After all, losing a sibling can be a pretty traumatic experience, even for a 1-year-old.
> 
> Having said that, OP lying to her husband about having spent the time w/ her ex (not to mention that she didn't tell him about it up front) is what makes this such a big deal.
> 
> But why didn't she trust her husband enough to tell him? Why couldn't he be there w/ her to provide comfort and support? These are pretty important questions as well, and if the answers to any of them are what led to her lying to him (and, having read through the thread, I think that's pretty likely), she's right to consider divorcing him.


I can answer that. First, thank you. My son was actually 6 when it happened. So he was very aware. I did lie to my husband and I apologized for that. It was a long story and I wrote about it several other posts.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

Is there a way to close this thread? I actually got a lot of very helpful advice.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> I can answer that. First, thank you. My son was actually 6 when it happened. So he was very aware. I did lie to my husband and I apologized for that. It was a long story and I wrote about it several other posts.


Ah... apologies. For some reason I thought that you'd mentioned that he was 6 _now_. You'd mentioned it happened 5 years ago, so I did the math and came up w/ your son being only a year old at the time. Definitely changes things.

And, again, I get why you lied. You shouldn't have done it... _but you also shouldn't have felt the *need* to lie about it._ That you did is very understandable.

That you're still married to this asshat, however, is not.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Katiemelanie said:


> Is there a way to close this thread? I actually got a lot of very helpful advice.


You can send a PM to one of the mods and request that it be locked. Mods are...
@Amplexor @Coffee Amore @Deejo @EleGirl @FrenchFry

And, again, I'm sorry MEM, but I can never remember the freaking numbers in your handle.


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