# Romance in MARRIAGE really 'Unconditional love'?



## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

Is the romance in MARRIAGE Really unconditional love?

I just keep running into this this phrase on different posts and various places in threads... 
It so grates on my nerves. I will always love my wife. Spouses do make a commitment to do this, yet there are *actual vows*. It seems when marriages have problems, then people want to think that the love for a spouse should be unconditional love?!? 

I do NOT understand this. I o'bide by my vows, and I expect my wife to do the same... 

The tone seems to be that somehow the "unconditional love" is greater than love with vows!?!? 

Parents and children share this type of love, **but** 
*Why should people feel as if they should feel a similar love connection to a spouse?*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Nope, romantic love is not unconditional love. Romantic love has many conditions, and if not met, the love will die.

You have to stoke the flames, keep the fires burning, those things require meeting certain conditions.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

I agree, not being a scandalous ho (gender neutral), seems to be difficult for many.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why you gotta be a hater? I loves me my scandalous ho's.


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm not sure what you're getting at. When I got married, I didn't make any vows - we signed some papers, but they weren't "until death do us part" vows. We had known we _wanted_ to spend our lives together for a long time already, and we were making it official. 

You should WANT to be with your spouse - you should have a great deal of respect for your spouse, or you never should have gotten married. If you lose respect for your spouse (and this should be a difficult thing to do), then you shouldn't be with them anymore. You can't live your life out happily with someone you don't have respect for. 

"Love" is such a funny word... it means so many things to so many people. I think I do love my SO unconditionally... but I'd probably still love him if something terrible happened, and our relationship ended (even if I'd lost respect for him, perhaps).

Anyway. Everything in life is about priorities, in a way. If your values prioritize the vows you made ("until death do us part") over your happiness or the happiness of your spouse, then that's your decision to make - and it's an admirable one. But I think it's just as admirable to decide that both people will live happier lives apart, and that this value is more important. 

Both people should know (via communication) what their partner expects from them, and what they can expect from their partner. If you go outside of that, you've broken trust, and respect can fall. That's not the same as love.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Unconditional love is a myth


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

You touch on a very interesting topic here. Marriage vows are conditional by nature. For instance, if my wife promises to "have and to hold" only me, and then decides to "have and to hold" someone else, she has broken her vow (condition for marriage) and the marriage could be dissolved. 

However, I think the idea behind unconditional love would be nested "inside" the vow structure of marriage. That's why couples talk about "deal breakers", which are basically things that a spouse would do that would make marriage (or at least living with the said spouse for a while) impossible. 

But deal breakers aside, I view unconditional love more in terms of loving your spouse even when he/she isn't very loveable at the moment. It is about making sure that your spouse doesn't have to earn your love, but being assured that your love is always there even when he/she makes mistakes or is having a rough time. Of course, these sorts of actions are also part of most wedding vows, but I'm talking about the day to day here. 

According to the book, Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires, the Respect He Desperately Needs, by Dr. Emerson Eggerich, the day to day activity of love and respect is far more important than simply knowing that at some point in your marriage you committed some things via a set of vows. To show love and/or respect to your spouse even when he/she doesn't deserve it is, in fact, what "doing your vows" looks like. Otherwise you get into what Emerson described as the "crazy cycle", where one spouse withholds love because the other spouse is withholding respect (or vice versa). The result is that the relationship crumbles as a result of the constant power struggle. An example:
"She hasn't responded to my need for sex for days. That isn't right and even goes against her vows and shows that she doesn't respect me. So why should I continue to do romantic things like writing her affectionate notes or cuddling with her? Until she realized that she is treating me like crap and standing on my air hose, I'm not going to go out of my way to do those things that she likes me to do for her, either."

Obviously the above example is immaturity -- but I believe many spouses play these sorts of games, even if they don't actually rationalize them out like I did above. For instance, my wife has a lower drive than I do. I discovered she was purposefully withholding affection from me (which is my love language -- physical touch) so I wouldn't desire her as often. This had the opposite affect on me because I was starving for her affection and the only way I seemed to get any affection was when we had sex. Her love language is words of appreciation/validation. So when she would withhold affection I would naturally want to be more affectionate (not her love language -- didn't turn her on at all). I then would become resentful and began to get all critical and pissy with my words. This, in turn, invalidated her and did the opposite of what she truly needed from me -- words of validation and appreciation. So she withheld more affection (and consequently sex, too). 

We didn't get on this crazy cycle with the intention of hurting each other -- it just happened automatically. How unconditional love enters the picture is this: I decided to break the cycle by showing her love that I felt at the time she didn't really "deserve" (condition). I wrote to her my feelings, but I also made it clear with words of affection and validation that I was crazy about her and that I appreciated (a whole list) of things that she has done/is still doing in our relationship. I apologized for my critical words and for standing on her air hose even though I felt like I was also suffocating.

She didn't need to earn anything to get the above treatment. She didn't need to measure up, stop doing anything, or say she was sorry first. That is the unconditional part of what went on.

Does this make sense?


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Unconditional love is a myth


Well, if we want to get into technicalities, sure. I mean, I can't imagine every possible condition that could apply... 

But I can't think of any that could affect my love for my SO... or my love for my cat, or my sister, or many of my hobbies. I guess it depends how you define love, too.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Everyone has deal-breakers. Cheat on your spouse often enough, beat him/her severely enough or often enough and the most loyal among them will toss you to the curb. Having said that, I do believe that withholding affection or sex simply because one doesn't feel ridiculously "happy" or because one's spouse has a perceived flaw or two isn't acceptable. 
We all enter into marriage with expectations but that's all they are...expectations. They weren't carved in stone by the finger of God and they don't constitute marching orders for one's spouse. Failing to have each and every one of your expectations met is not an excuse for withholding affection.


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

eyuop said:


> But deal breakers aside, I view unconditional love more in terms of loving your spouse even when he/she isn't very loveable at the moment...


Thank you for being more coherent and organized in your thoughts than I was in mine. I very much agree with what you have to say. 

----------------------

Marriage isn't just the commitment you've made in front of your family with specific wording and clauses. It's a generalized commitment to be the person your spouse needs you to be, and to work as a team to make your shared life into something you both want. 

I'm assuming an example that should spring to mind is a cheating spouse - they've broken vows. But, I really don't think that has much to do with love. I could see how someone could cheat on someone they love, if other things had gone awry; and my definition of "love" allows me to love many people at a time, even if I only sleep with one of them. *shrugs*


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Faiora said:


> Well, if we want to get into technicalities, sure. I mean, I can't imagine every possible condition that could apply...
> 
> But I can't think of any that could affect my love for my SO... or my love for my cat, or my sister, or many of my hobbies. I guess it depends how you define love, too.


Or you don't have an imagination as creative as I do.


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Or you don't have an imagination as creative as I do.


Could be!


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

My love for my husband is conditional.

It is deep, and it would take a lot for it to end. But it could be broken.

The only people on Earth I love unconditionally are my children. There is nothing they could do that would ever end my love for them. And I'm even considering the worst things humans do.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

Romance and unconditional love are two different things. I think when it comes to a romantic relationship, there's no such thing as unconditional love. To me, unconditional love applies to my family and close friends.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don't really think anyone is capable of unconditional love.

I haven't spoken to my blood family since my mothers death because of the way they treated her and I.

If I were to go home today and my daughter was straddling my wife's corpse while eating her liver with an ice cream scoop I think my love would immediately be shown to be "Conditional"


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Unconditional love? That is an illusion.

In church they said that God had unconditional love - and then they introduced the TEN Commandments. Sounded pretty conditional to me.

If you really truly had unconditional love then you would not be a good partner to be with, in my opinion.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Unconditional love is not the same as deal breakers.

After 23 years I've grown to love my husband unconditionally. It means I love him as a person. I'd still love him if he left.

The conditions are marital conditions not love ones. I wouldn't stop loving him if he cheated. I'd wish him well and hope she makes him happy.

Yes I love him that much. I love him enough to let him go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Love is unconditional. Love is NOT everlasting. If you don't feed it, care for it and make it a priority, it dies.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Or you don't have an imagination as creative as I do.



or as creepy apparently...



tacoma said:


> If I were to go home today and my daughter was straddling my wife's corpse while eating her liver with an ice cream scoop I think my love would immediately be shown to be "Conditional"


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Excellent explaining post by Eyuop :smthumbup:

I am a die hard *Romantic*, couldn't be beat out of me - and frankly, don't believe I could stomach a man who wasn't romantic in his touch & in the verbal (could care less about flowers & gifts)..... and I AM NOT AN UNCONDITIONAL LOVER ...not in the least ... 

If my husband started to deny my core emotional / sexual needs & felt -since we are married...I have to just stay, put a  on my face....continue to love in the face of any wrongful treatment/ ongoing....this would reduce me to a miserable co-dependent or a depressed woman with a growing resentment wall.... Would never work ....deal breakers for me....and I wouldn't expect him to put up with that either..

Ongoing Inspiring Romance is a dance of Joyfully giving & receiving from each other ...communicating our wants/ desires and caring to fulfill them- because we love. 

I did a thread on the concept of *Unconditional Love* a couple yrs ago...I think the closest thing to this could be how we love our children.... 
 http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ve-unconditional-love-what-does-mean-you.html


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

You can vow to stay with your spouse unconditionally.

You can absolutely promise to love them as a person unconditionally, and likely will pull it off.

But specifically romantic love? No, that is _very _conditional.

Taking and sticking to your vows is an action. Unconditional _romantic_ love is a feeling.


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

tacoma said:


> I don't really think anyone is capable of unconditional love.
> 
> I haven't spoken to my blood family since my mothers death because of the way they treated her and I.
> 
> If I were to go home today and my daughter was straddling my wife's corpse while eating her liver with an ice cream scoop I think my love would immediately be shown to be "Conditional"


1) If I had a daughter... and this happened... 

That's not really something to remove love. I mean, my first assumption would be that the girl was drugged or psychotic (and it would probably be difficult to convince me otherwise). You can love someone even if you know it's no good to be around them. And that's what I was saying before... even if my relationship with my SO someday ended, I am sure I would still love him. Even if he'd cheated, or done something terrible. 

I am someone who can move on from a relationship that doesn't work - I've left people I've loved before, because something wasn't right, and I've dealt with people I've loved leaving me. If a situation is unhealthy, I shouldn't be around the person, but it doesn't mean I stop loving them.

2) Your situation doesn't really contradict my point. I'm not saying all love is unconditional. *shrugs* I'm sorry your family sucks. Some of mine does, too.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

I know I'm breaking the pattern here, but I have and I am experiencing unconditional love. I have loved my current spouse long before we got together. My love for him passed the test of time, distance, problems.

I love him even when he does wrong, even when his behavior towards me is not his best, even when I see his flaws, because his qualities are more and greater. 
Sure I have requirements in order to continue marriage, such as not to cheat on me and not to inflict any kind of abuse. But even if marriage was discontinued, I would still love him. I am among those people who can love someone forever, or at least for a very long time. It's kind of rare though, romantic love is usually selfish and full of requests.

I don't believe in vows. You love someone as long as you love someone. If you stay together because of the vows, you won't be happy. You can't vow what and how you will feel like in the future - you can vow you love someone RIGHT NOW.

I don't believe in papers either. A marriage ends when the feelings are gone, when there's betrayal, when there's no longer the wish to be together. People fail to understand this, and think that a signature on a piece of paper still makes them married, when their SO has long checked out...

Unconditional love does exist, it's just a very rare flower.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

When one proclaims unconditional love it basically means their emotions will not change regardless of what the other person does. That's a ridiculous concept for a couple of reasons. First, we have little control over our own emotions. Secondly, the realm of possible evils another person could possibly commit is limitless. Others determine how we feel about them just as our behaviors determine how others will regard us. If I believed my wife would love me forever "unconditionally", I would be relieved of the responsibility of treating her well. If your boss told you that regardless of your performance, you'd get rave evaluations and accelerated promotions forever, how careful would you be with your work? If your kids' teachers told them they'd get Honor Roll and straight "As" forever even if they did no work or even showed up, would they be attentive students?


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

Like you said with the marriage vows, I refer back to them as well. They are vows and they have conditions. For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, and etc...So romantic love is not unconditional love. It has conditions the minute you say I do. At least in my opinion.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

BTW....I clicked on the wrong one in the poll by mistake. Clearly my answer is the second one and not the first.


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