# So frustrated. I don't know what to do.



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't know what to do to make my marraige better. We are coming up on our 7 year anniversary and we've been together for 10 years total. Have 2 kids and both work full time, in our 30s.

I feel a lack of connection in our marraige to that point that I often think of exit strategies. I've heard some people say that it can be like a roommate situation. But this isn't even like roommates. A roommate would probably talk to you and attempt some kind of basic friendship at least. We spend a lot of time in a shared space in the same house, parenting our kids and running the household, but there is nothing beyond that. He does not ask me simple things like what I did that day at work, how my life is going, or even about current events or anything at all. All talking is bare minimum business only. I feel no excitement from him, it feels as if there is no reason for me to be there and at times he seems annoyed by me. This is the root of our issue in my opinion. I make attempts every day to reconnect and take an interest in him as a person with either no response or an obvious move by him to shrug me off. 

I have extreme difficulty communicating this to him. I have difficulty explaining to him what he would need to do to make me feel better about our marraige. I don't know how to teach someone to be friendly and have a basic conversation? How do you teach that? It's like trying to teach a robot to be human. 

I'm not new here so answers to the typical questions you may have:

- sex life is mediocre, around once a week. Born of need on my part not of any feeling of connection. He does not initiate. He will not turn me down when I do. It's a mechanical act for me. I've heard men feel sex as love so maybe this makes him content the way things are and less likely to meet my needs. I don't know. 

- I've tried a lot of things to fix this. Reading all the books. Talking about it. Not talking about it. Spending more time together on dates. Spending less time together. Doing new activities together. Joining a gym and working out together. I thought if I got myself in top shape and more attractive maybe he'd find a bigger push to keep me around. Nope. 

Since I last posted here (in the sex section) about 6 weeks ago, I've lost about 10 lbs and I am at the gym 6-7 days a week working hard. I thought this would refocus me and maybe if I found happiness elsewhere it would make my marraige issue seem smaller. Nope. Everything else in life can shift however it wants but the marraige still sucks. 

We dated for a long time. I remember being happy together. I remember feeling that he cherished me and we talked and he took an active interest in me. I can't pin down when it changed but I know that having only been together 7 years I cannot face a lifetime of this. I think often of getting out. It would be better to be alone than to deal with something that I find to be a constant source of frustration and unfulfillment. 

When I talk to him (I feel like I annoy you...) and try to discuss ways that our marraige could be better (what could I do to make you more interested in our life together...) I get the following responses:

"You don't annoy me. I don't act like you do so stop feeling that way."

"I'm interested in you. Don't say I am not."

"I don't do any of those things. I can't control how you feel about me. You need to decide to feel a different way."

All of those pretty much shut the conversation down. I stop at that point. 

I alternate between thinking f*ck it, I'm ignoring him too...to trying to throw a life line into the pool. 

Last night I made us an impromptu date on a weeknight. Had a sitter for the kids and asked him to meet me for happy hour. I thought I'd try to keep it light and fun and maybe that would help. But, we pretty much sat in silence. All attempts by me to get something going were met with one word answers to shut it down. I got frustrated. Conversation turned ugly and I told him that I was tired of feeling unfulfilled in our marraige and that I have been thinking of an exit strategy. I've said the word divorce to him before but never as seriously as I did last night. It was the first time I told him how often I think about it and that I am at the point of Planning for it. 

He got angry (first emotion I've seen from him in years) got up from the table and said "Ok, this conversation is done. We are leaving." So we got up. As we walked out he went to the bathroom and I was so done with him that I just kept walking and I left. (We drove seperately) I left him at the restaurant. I ran some errands and picked up the kids and came home a couple hours later. He was working in the yard and said nothing to me. He came in after dark. The kids were occupied at that point and he was standing in the kitchen making himself a drink at the counter. I walked in and I'm just so tired of all of this that I put my hand on his shoulder and hoped to talk. He turned around and grabbed me into a hug and he was crying. Neither of us said anything. I let him cry. I don't know what to do. I have no emotion at this point so I just stood there and let him hug me and cry. 

We went to bed shortly after that and I woke up and came to work as usual. Haven't really talked to him since. 

It's just so weird. A coworker would treat me better than my own husband. I know more about my coworkers lives and what they think of things than my own husband. I'm going through a really bad time at work where some big changes are going to happen and it's weighing heavily on my mind. My husband doesn't even know that I am about to leave my job because every time I've tried to talk to him he shuts me out. I give up. You'd think that he'd care at least for the effect it will have on him for our income and general schedule with our kids day to day. 

We are both doing diet and exercise to lose weight. We often overlap our time at the gym...both going right after work. I will be halfway thru my work out when he gets there and he doesn't even wave or say hi to me! We are on the same gym floor and he doesn't even walk over to my machine and acknowledge my presence even though I know he can see me clear across the room. We take the same fitness weight lifting class each week getting there about 5 mins apart from each other. I grab a spot on the floor big enough for both of us, he walks in and says nothing to me and takes a spot on the other side of the room. Wtf! It's insane to me that my husband would do that. We look like complete strangers. When I confront him he says "i didn't want to interrupt you". How is waving hi or sitting next to me interrupting me? These are basic courtesies any acquaintance would generally abide by. He claims he had no idea it would bother me that he ignores me. 

Why would someone treat you that way if they didn't harbor negative feelings for you?

Yet he says "I don't know what your talking about" when I bring it up. 

I am at a crossroads where I need to make a big career move and I am seriously considering making a move with the goal of supporting myself and my leaving the marraige rather than thinking of the family as a whole. It does make a difference as to what job I would ultimately take. 

Any advice is appreciated. I feel like I am a living in a twilight zone and every other part of my life I feel very in control of and clear about direction. In marraige I am lost.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your H appears to only wanting to listen when D is thrown out there. You appear willing to lose it to save it. What is your H doing that makes him ignore you?


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

Wow, you just described my marriage to a tee. Unfortunately, I had to leave mine. I'm not advising that of you necessarily. 

I'll ask the usual question, have you sought out any counselling - marriage or individual? A lot sounds like communication issues. He is obviously wanting you to stay, not wanting to get divorced, by his emotional response (finally!). However, that may not be enough for you unless some big changes are made. And of course, you have children involved, I did not. 

I didn't receive an emotional response until several days after I announced I was leaving. Then it was in desperation; "I'll do anything", "You're the best thing that ever happened to me", "I'll do whatever I can to be a better man". I left the door partially open for a reconciliation and he did absolutely nothing to try to talk to me, to try to understand or to seek help. So several months later, I felt completely justified and it was the best decision I ever made. Sad, yes. But I'm in a better place already. For me though, I had given up the fight several years earlier. I just dragged out the leaving. 

You are still fighting for it and still desperately want it to work. Please seek counselling. I'm sure people here will suggest good reading as well. 

Just know you are not alone, many of us have been there.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

I am 57 years old, a career woman, and 35 years married (first time marriage for the both of us). My husband will be 60 this year. Many of us have been where you are when everyday living will become a reality and sometimes boring.

You need to work on yourself first and make yourself a happy person. Make yourself responsible for your happiness by doing something for yourself everyday. This could be just a hobby, reading a short chapter of a book, or doing something with your children that will make them and you happy. Being happy yourself may bring your husband around.

My husband is the quiet and analytical time. He prefers to work alone and don't like to be around people much. He is a mechanical and structural engineer. I read some things that interest me in his field so that I can relate to his world. I connect his world with mine as I go through information.

You definitely need to see a marriage counselor. This might help with your reconnecting process. Your husband has not done terrible things to you and your children like cheating, abusing physically & mentally, doing drugs, and drinking. Your marriage can be saved. He still loves you and you still love him.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Is he depressed or really stressed about his job or something else? It's pretty normal for men not to emotional and to not want to talk a lot, especially about the relationship. Is he angry or resentful about something? I could see where you would be confused instead of getting angry why he didn't stay and talk to you and work on how to improve the marriage so you do want to stay.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Hmm.. very difficult situation, for sure. There have been times in my 25 yr relationship where we had little to say to each other. We both felt disconnected and ignored. Here is my non- professional advice: 

- Read "His Needs Her Needs", and BOTH agree to try to meet each other's top needs. Read "LoveBusters and agree to try to eliminate them. Read some silly stuff together- gossip mags, funny internet sites, youtube videos made by idiots, be FUN! Play board games or card games or "what would you do?" type games.

- Get out of the house for some ACTION- no movies, dinner or boring stuff! Do something that makes you feel energized- or young-or both! Take a class together you both are sure you'll be BAD at- salsa dancing, cooking, ceramics, pottery spinning, something you both HATE. It will be fun! Go golfing, ride a horse, tour a museum (kids museums are FUN!) 

- Communicate fun texts/calls often. Send humorous ecards, send raunchy jokes, tell him the best thing about his love tool, ask what is his favorite thing about yours!

- Send serious news/current event links and tell him you would love his opinion on "XYZ" No serious hot topics, but not fluff, just local news, global news, new science discoveries, etc...

I know you've likely tried things like these, but keep at it. Take the best from this post, and leave the rest. I know I have looked at my hubby and asked myself "Who the HELL are you?" and we got through it many times. Good luck!


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## Liam83011 (Jul 1, 2015)

Ok, from the actions, or rather inactions, described, I think he doesn't love you, or that he has let huge resentments build up through the years by NOT expressing or standing up for himself, and you may have no idea this was even happening. A man who loves a woman cannot help but acknowledge her or want to be near her-- you are in the same exercise class and he walks in and treats you like a stranger? That is extreme. 

Personally, I believe you have to be willing to walk away and mean it. If you are ready to actually do this, tell him in a calm and pleasant but matter of fact way that you do not feel he loves you and you are going seek legal counsel to initiate separation. Possibly something will break in him, but I was this way (not to this extent) to my ex and eventually caused her to walk away. Afterwards I realized that the resentment I built up due to my 'nice guy' ways had caused me to no longer love her, even though at the time I REALLY did not want the divorce.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Intersting, my wife does that same thing, takes no interest in me or the kids, just *****es about all the things she has to do be it at work or at home. We are definitely roommates, and, as you said, just a random person you would have as a roommate would treat me better than she does. We have no sex life, she has become quite overweight and does seem to give a **** anymore. I've been planning an exit strategy for awhile now, but since I'm male, I'm pretty much screwed since the courts will give everything to her, that's basically why I haven't already left. Our youngest of three is in college and as soon as she gets out I would like to leave.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Ironically it is the pursuit of bettering myself that got me to where I am taking a hard look at my marraige. 

I've written here before. I suffer from depression and anxiety and I do A LOT to treat myself for it. I am on meds and under regular medical care. I'm taking care of myself. I'm putting in the hours at the gym, I'm eating right, I'm moving up in my career, I'm spending quality time with my kids. This is a big deal for me. 

At what point do you look around at all of the different aspects of your life and see the one thing that's still making you unhappy is your marraige? What do you do then? I've done everything suggested so far and I've swung the other way and also done nothing. It makes no difference at this point. 

I do not want to put words into his mouth. He offers zero input so it's easy to run away with my imagination of all of the things he must be thinking. In the end his lack of words make no difference when his actions scream that he could not care less about this marraige. 

I would not allow any other person to treat me this way. Anyone else would have been cut from my life a long time ago. Why does he get a pass? Why does the person who took vows to me treat me the worst? 

I don't think he has malicious intention toward me. I don't think he plots ways to be mean or make me angry. I think he does not love me, and that in turn he does not think about me at all. I don't think I even cross his mind unless it has to do with something household related. This is my gut feeling > I don't really know what goes on in his head because he does not talk to me. But it is the only thing I can come up with that explains it. He is so detached from me that he literally never thinks about how his actions would affect me. 

Yes, he is not abusive. He's not a deadbeat. He's not a drug addict. He's not wanted for murder. 

I tell myself those things often, willing myself to sweep this under the rug. It could be a lot worse, I tell myself. So you've got a husband who doesn't care for you. At least he doesn't hit you. 

Is this really what marraige is? A settling for "at least he isn't abusing you". I didn't get married because I needed to, I did it because I loved him and thought we were going to build a life together. Instead I am frantically building my side while he is walking away from the construction site...


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Do think he might be on the autism spectrum?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Sounds like you need marriage counseling ASAP. You are trying to communicate but, rather than assuming he "won't," perhaps he cannot--doesn't even know where to begin. This is just a guess--without more input from him, you really cannot figure out what is wrong, and the fact that you are trying/have tried so much means you need to try what you haven't--counseling. 

One question: after you've expressed a concern about something, does his behavior change--like not greeting you because he doesn't want to interrupt you; has he changed that type of behavior in any context? Has he responded in any way with behavioral changes after you've pointed out things?


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Ironically it is the pursuit of bettering myself that got me to where I am taking a hard look at my marraige.
> 
> I'm taking care of myself. I'm putting in the hours at the gym, I'm eating right, I'm moving up in my career, I'm spending quality time with my kids. This is a big deal for me.
> 
> Yes, he is not abusive. He's not a deadbeat. He's not a drug addict. He's not wanted for murder.


I can identify with this. Its very similar to how I felt when I left my first marriage. I came to the conclusion that my ex was just emotionally retarded and didn't have the same expectations of partnership that I did.

He would insist he was going to try whenever I told him I was planning divorce but he just wasn't capable of being a real partner.

I got to your stage and right after I got to the stage where I completely checked out. I just started living my own life and at that point, my marriage was basically over.

Everyone will tell you to work on your marriage but the truth is that it takes two emotionally committed people to do that. All the things you are doing are great. Whatever you do, prepping yourself and taking care of yourself are imperative.

I think you know that no one here can tell you what to do. You've got to decide whether what he's offering is good enough for you. Though my experience with this was that it got worse, not better.

Good luck!


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm home with him now and he's being overly nice and it feels forced. Then I feel guilty for being angry with him when he's trying to be nice. 

We do need counseling you are right. But I think I want the counseling for myself instead to decide whether I should leave or not without his influence. 

When I bring up something, he denies or looks bewildered. I was upset after the class incident and immediately as we were leaving said why did you stand over on the other side of the room? He acted surprised and said oh I didn't know you'd want me to stand next to you. (We've been together every other time...???) I said I saved you a spot and was waving you over. "Oh I didn't want to interrupt you"...I said how could you be interrupting me, the class hadn't started yet?? No response. A shrug. Then walking away to end conversation. 

He will usually change for a few days and put in a little bit of effort, then we go back to the same old routine. 

I've always asked him if there was anything I could do to make him happier let me know. He says "Nothing everything is perfect the way it is"


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He is keeping you hooked. It is a method of giving scraps to keep you around. When he feels safe, he reverts. Now you are in a cycle.

The trick is to not take the bait, and that is him like he is improving. He has not, the root cause is not dealt with.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

OP ... here is what I see. DH doesn't want to lose you, but he cannot bring himself to discuss the issues for him in the marriage. He may be harboring resentments of events long gone by, things he may not even recall well. Emotional memory is different ... We may not always remember the details of events in the past, but we do remember how we felt about those events. You may try MC, but the counselor will almost certainly recommend IC for the partner who is having difficultly expressing their feelings. You might also look at a "Hold Me Tight" seminar, as these are designed to gently bring friction points back in focus. Also, pickup a copy of "Feeling Good Together" by Burns. Kindest Regards-


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Is your husband very organized to the point of obsession?

Does he become anxious easily when a plan goes awry?

Does he live by routines?

Do you get the feeling that he has to study your nonverbal cues to figure out what you are feeling?

Does he make good eye contact when talking to you or others?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

What kind of marriage did his parents have? What was he conditioned to expect in marriage?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I think a lot of this is his innate personality. We met in our 20s. I was his first serious relationship and he had a long series of dating that never got past the first few dates. It was obvious when I met him that he was trying hard. Like he was selling himself I suppose. Looking back my guess is that his previous dating never got far because of the same things I am complaining about now. I would argue that he knew at that time that we met that his issues were not going to get a relationship very far but that he wanted so badly to settle down with someone that he worked hard on being someone different. Over time he's slid back into his comfort zone. (This is my speculation only)

His parents are still married going on about 40 years, but it's not a typical relationship. His dad is 25 years older than his mom and not in good health so the whole 10 years we've been together I've seen their marraige as his mom being the caretaker and mother of his dad. I have no idea what it was like before those days. His dad has borderline dementia on top of his other serious health problems so you can't really hold a conversation with him and he can't follow along with you when you are speaking. It's obvious his mom loves his dad very much and she is an excellent caretaker but it's not a husband and wife as equals. 

There were red flags when we were together that I see now. His parents are both very sweet and always welcomed me as a daughter from day one. His mom was always very open with me though that H is and always has been a very private and closed off person of few words. I didn't meet his parents until we had been dating for a year, and I remember his mom's shock when she met me and found out how long we'd been together. She didn't even know he was seeing someone. (Granted, he was in grad school in another state at the time and only home maybe 2 times that year.) She even made a comment like wow a whole year. Like it was shocking he could keep someone that long. I remember thinking it was weird. 

He is very closed off to his parents. I think he always viewed them as the enemy and his mom can be very nosey and prying. She also likes to gossip and I learned quickly that anything I shared with her would be spread like wildfire through everyone she knows. He grew up like that so I can see why he chose to be so private. I get angry with him and tell him that he treats me like his mother. Like I'm the enemy that should be retreated from. He rolls his eyes at me when I say that to him. 

Fwiw I don't think this is any kind of autism thing. He doesn't meet any of the criteria. 

He's being extremely sweet and kind right now. Making me feel awful for having made this thread in a moment of frustration.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I think a lot of this is his innate personality.


Kag, I agree with what *SimplyAmorous* told you more than three years ago in her Feb 2012 post. You're describing behaviors that are classic warning signs for SPD (Schizoid Personality Disorder). Despite its name, that disorder has nothing to do with Schizophrenia. The APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) defines SPD as "a pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood (age eighteen or older) and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by *four (or more)* of the following:

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family;
2. almost always chooses solitary activities;
3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person;
4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities;
5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others; and
7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect.

More specifically, the behaviors you describe sound like the red flags for "secret schizoid" (aka, "hidden SPD"). That behavior is described at Wikipedia's Secret Schizoid and at a Secret Schizoid Blog. Essentially, "secret schizoids" are people who enjoy being alone doing solitary activities but, in order to be accepted and loved and to fit in, will put on a brave front of being "social" when they are around people. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your H has full-blown SPD but, rather, that he may have moderate to strong traits of it.



> I don't think this is any kind of autism thing. He doesn't meet any of the criteria.


Compared to the autism spectrum, SPD does not involve impairments in nonverbal communication such as a lack of eye contact, unusual prosody, or a pattern of restricted interests or repetitive behaviors. If your H really does have strong traits of SPD, this could explain the bizarre experience you had with him at the gym where he shunned you by staying on the other side of the room. SPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) typically have a strong preference for solitary activities. 

They also tend to overlook social differences and environmental cues, thereby limiting their experience. This misperception of varied events increases their fear of intimacy and limits them in their interpersonal relationships. The resulting aloofness may limit their opportunities to refine the social skills needed to successfully pursue relationships.



> Any advice is appreciated.


My advice, Kag, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your two children are dealing with. Ideally, your H will be willing to seek IC with a psychologist but, unless you are threatening to walk out the door, that is unlikely to occur if he has strong SPD traits. 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about SPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply. I caution that SPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all SPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits SPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the SPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong SPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as emotional coldness and strong preference for solitary activities.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Only a professional can do that. Hence, the main reason for learning these red flags -- like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion.


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## SoonerMac (Jul 7, 2015)

I was your H about 4 months ago. I like routine I like comfortable and I am a selfish. I have been married 14 years and until my wife seriously started talking about divorce, wanting to spend more time with friends and tired of feeling like a roomate did I change. 
I had to take some responsibility for my actions and lack of. Had to ask myself if what I am doing is really hurting her and giving her the feeling that I don't love her anymore what did I have to change? It wasn't complicated didn't need counseling. It is just a couple of simple questions your H has to answer. Do I still love you? Do I want to make this work? If it is yes then it's your turn to tell him what you need from him to feel wanted and like a wife again ( not a roommate ). 
For me I had to to bring some simple intimacy back to the marriage. Hold hands, sit together on the couch, saying I love you to her meant nothing but a long hug and then the words I love you mean the world. Was this awkward, at times. Did it feel forced, yes. But it is getting much easier. Did this solve everything for me, no. It does however show my wife I'm committed to making things work and working to better myself as a husband. 
This isn't a cookie cutter how to fix any marriage. I am no professional and can only give you my experience with a very similar problem. My wife also had to change some of her habits that helped reassure me that she was trying to make things work. That may be a whole post in itself. I hope that you will be able to communicate effectively during this difficult time and try not to blame each other instead work out some solutions.


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