# Not sure what to do.



## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Hello all. 

I am new to this forum and frankly new to taking to anyone about my marriage. We have been married 20 years and have 3 teenage daughters. They are my world and love them beyond words. 

I also love my wife. Despite the fact that she has had nothing but hostility towards me for years. 

Our marriage was never passionate. But I got sick about 5 years ago and was laid off. I got a new job. But for less money. I also cannot do as much around the house as I did in the past.

For the first time since our kids were born.

Worked outside the house. It's part time 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week.
Not really sure if that is the core of her issues with me. But her anger towards me is unrelenting. 

At best she has criticism for every thing I do or didn't do. As worst she is screaming curses at me, telling to to leave the house and even die. And what kills me the most is that she has no regard for how it hurts the kids. When she screams like this at me they retreat to theirs rooms crying. 

I almost feel she does this to the kids because she knows that will truly hurt me. I have learned just to accept the tirades. But when it hurts my kids I am beside myself. 

I can't leave as I can't possible survive without seeing my daughters. But is she continues to hurt them indirectly to hurt me. How can I stay?

I feel my situation is hopeless


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

You have learned to accept the tirades? Why? I wouldn't accept this treatment from anyone, much less my wife. She treats you this way because you let her. She has no respect for you. You need to go find your wife's purse and get your nuts out of it. Man up dude and put a stop to this crap. Have some respect for yourself.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

My ex husband (seperated 12 months, getting divorced) treated me like sh*t for the last 7 or 8 years of our marriage. He had mentally destroyed me and I couldn't take it anymore. Won't go into my story but my biggest mistake was not leaving sooner. I am damaged after that marriage and my health deteriorated mentally and physically. Your daughters are teenagers and can decide which parent to live with if you get divorced. I'm in Scotland UK so don't know the laws where you are, but I would get all evidence together of her abuse and book an appointment with a solicitor/divorce lawyer. Leave as soon as you can before she destroys you. It's not healthy for your teenagers being around their mother. Talk to your girls and ask them if they would want to stay with you or their mum. This is not healthy for you or your girls. Do your daughters talk to you about how their mum treats you and the girls? This is heartbreaking and can feel your pain. My ex and I didn't have kids together so I left with my 17 year old son. My daughter is in her 30's and has a family of her own. It was easier for me to leave in the end because we didn't have kids. You don't deserve this. You deserve better.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

What do you love about your wife?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

More details would be helpful.

Does your wife work? Does she provide caretaking for you? 

I'm getting the sense she may be acting out because she's overwhelmed and am trying to understand how much she's shouldering.

More details would provide better advice.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's called 50/50 custody. It would be better for them than this situation.

Also, if they are teenaged, you better get used to the fact that soon they are going to fly the nest and live their own lives. It's worrisome that you say you "can't possibly survive" without seeing them. Surely you know if you divorced you would still see them at least half of the time?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

As worst she is screaming curses at me, telling to to leave the house and even die.


This is very concerning. Your wife sounds dangerous. This is not something someone in love with you would say. All her behaviour, temper is very alarming. You are being abused. Your daughters are witnessing it. Take your daughters and leave. Your wife is unstable.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Diceplayer said:


> You have learned to accept the tirades? Why? I wouldn't accept this treatment from anyone, much less my wife. She treats you this way because you let her. She has no respect for you. You need to go find your wife's purse and get your nuts out of it. Man up dude and put a stop to this crap. Have some respect for yourself.


I can't fight back. Any time I do. She escalates and it terrorizes the kids. The best I can hope for is trying to placate her.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> My ex husband (seperated 12 months, getting divorced) treated me like sh*t for the last 7 or 8 years of our marriage. He had mentally destroyed me and I couldn't take it anymore. Won't go into my story but my biggest mistake was not leaving sooner. I am damaged after that marriage and my health deteriorated mentally and physically. Your daughters are teenagers and can decide which parent to live with if you get divorced. I'm in Scotland UK so don't know the laws where you are, but I would get all evidence together of her abuse and book an appointment with a solicitor/divorce lawyer. Leave as soon as you can before she destroys you. It's not healthy for your teenagers being around their mother. Talk to your girls and ask them if they would want to stay with you or their mum. This is not healthy for you or your girls. Do your daughters talk to you about how their mum treats you and the girls? This is heartbreaking and can feel your pain. My ex and I didn't have kids together so I left with my 17 year old son. My daughter is in her 30's and has a family of her own. It was easier for me to leave in the end because we didn't have kids. You don't deserve this. You deserve better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


I will never leave. I made a commitment to her and my girls. No matter what. That is my lot it life. I must accept and make the best of it. I cannot bear to be without my daughters.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Is she on any meds for psych related issues?


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> More details would be helpful.
> 
> Does your wife work? Does she provide caretaking for you?
> 
> ...


My wife stopped working when our first CB old was born. It's was truly the best thing. I don't see how kids can be raised with both parents working.
She does have a part time time job now. 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week. I work full time and am out of the house from about 7am to 6 pm.
She in no way takes care of me. If anything I take care of her. I cook most nights. Clean every night. Do the food shopping.
If I am every stupid enough to ask her for anything. Even something as simple as picking up an item on her way home. She tells me that she is not my mother and if that's what I want to go back to her.

In her mind she is shouldering a lot. But I feel it's just that she now feels I am worthless. And shameful. I can't keep up her her friends husbands.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Is there some physical disability keeping you from doing more around the house or working fulltime?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Is there some physical disability keeping you from doing more around the house or working fulltime?


I think there's a typo in his OP, he says he works full time 7am to 6pm, it's her that works part time.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

He also cooks, cleans, and does the grocery shopping.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> It's called 50/50 custody. It would be better for them than this situation.
> 
> Also, if they are teenaged, you better get used to the fact that soon they are going to fly the nest and live their own lives. It's worrisome that you say you "can't possibly survive" without seeing them. Surely you know if you divorced you would still see them at least half of the time?


I have accepted that they will be off to college soon. One in less than 2 years. But that's nature. Children grow. And leave. And hopefully flourish. It's the way of the world. Sure it's hard. And you want them to be little for ever. But it's not how life works.

All I want is for my family to be happy. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids. If I honestly thought it would make my kids happier I would leave. But I feel I need to be there for them. She will talk badly about me to them and I will lose them forever. I also feel I need to be there as a buffer between my wife and them. They can get to fighting and I am the referee.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Is there some physical disability keeping you from doing more around the house or working fulltime?


I am working full time. I leave at 7 and return around 6. I also cook most meals and clean the house. I do more than half of the food shopping and shuttle my kids around. I have trouble with yard work and such. But I pay for that

And I do have some health issues that I would rather not discuss in this forum.

In any case. She is in no way taking care of me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> I will never leave. I made a commitment to her and my girls. No matter what. That is my lot it life. I must accept and make the best of it. I cannot bear to be without my daughters.


Well then, there you have it. You are going to accept this abuse, and subject your daughters to seeing you be abused. How sad for them.

Also, again, you better face the reality that these teenagers will sometime soon be adults on their own. 

You cannot _bear_ to be without them? I think it's strange you keep repeating that. Are you going to push these teenagers to never leave home and live with daddy their whole lives?

Because of course you understand that even in divorce situations you'd still have a life with them.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Tested_by_stress said:


> Ais she on any meds for psych related issues?


No she is not. Sometimes I think she should be. She has a need to escalate any issue. If something is wrong. She takes action to amplify rather than rectify.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

For the longest time, my wife would rather fight with me eat it seemed. She got diagnosed by her doctor with severe anxiety and started meds in June of 2019. She hasn't started a serious arguement since. I am convinced she has more issues than anxiety but the meds are working nonetheless. If she hadn't sought help when she did, I would likely be gone by now.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It just sounds like she did get fed up with you at some point and decide she isn't going to cater to you, as you said, she's not your mother. It sounds like you're doing enough, but it just sounds like something damaged the relationship that she isn't going to get past and has apparently decided to just live with. 

Has there been any cheating in the marriage by either of you? Have there been ED problems that may have caused her to be confused about whether you care or something like that. ED can be confusing in relationships. Has there been any big loss for her, has anyone or a pet died that kicked this off? 

I mean, your comment about if you want a mother, that is the typical thing when you are NOT helping around the house and with kids. But you say you are, so I'm stymied! Now if there was any cheating on your part, I think that would explain why she's no longer invested.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’m not sure what your looking for. You already said your going to suck up all that garbage no matter what. Your scared of your wife when you talk back and she escalated.....if you won’t stand up then your only option is to continue with your current circumstances.

Sounds like your wife hates her current circumstances and is taking it out on you. She identified you as her life problem. You can forget about having any type of relationship. She is flustered and finished.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Dave8686 said:


> I can't fight back. Any time I do. She escalates and it terrorizes the kids. The best I can hope for is trying to placate her.


My God man, stop being a weak coward and stop tolerating her abuse. Have some ****ing dignity and self respect. She’s treating you this way because you allowed it, stop.

YOU are damaging your daughters as much as she is by denying them a strong male model of what they should expect and look for in a husband - which is the opposite of the way you are acting.

You’re in this situation because you have not been the leader in your marriage, you’ve been weak and allowed your wife to act badly and treat you badly. She has no respect for you because you haven’t commanded any. How can anyone respect a man who timidly tolerates what you do from her.

Stop being a victim and take action. If she is acting badly, tell her you’re not interested in her *****iness and leave the room. If she escalates, leave the house. Take the daughters out to eat or get ice cream and tell wife she’s not invited because of her behavior. Be the man your daughters need and can respect. Start being the man you can respect. Now.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why are you here if you accept all of this?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, thanks for the details.

Do you know what the source of her anger is? Often when a woman screams about a dish it's not about the dish.

What about MC? Have you tried?

If it's your intent to stay you may as well try to make things as livable as possible.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

If you truly cannot leave because of whatever reason, you are choosing your own misery and misery for your children over everything else and nobody here can help you, in my opinion.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave8686 said:


> I have accepted that they will be off to college soon. One in less than 2 years. But that's nature. Children grow. And leave. And hopefully flourish. It's the way of the world. Sure it's hard. And you want them to be little for ever. But it's not how life works.
> 
> All I want is for my family to be happy. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids. If I honestly thought it would make my kids happier I would leave. But I feel I need to be there for them. She will talk badly about me to them and I will lose them forever. I also feel I need to be there as a buffer between my wife and them. They can get to fighting and I am the referee.


Listen, if you divorce, if you are in the US, you can get joint custody of the kids, so I wouldn't worry about that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dave8686 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I am new to this forum and frankly new to taking to anyone about my marriage. We have been married 20 years and have 3 teenage daughters. They are my world and love them beyond words.
> 
> ...


Why do you love someone who treats you with disdain? This is not healthy. Do you have a masochistic streak?

Knights in shining armor get eaten, the prince gets the girl. He is not a pushover, he is a ****ing prince.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Dave8686 said:


> I have accepted that they will be off to college soon. One in less than 2 years. But that's nature. Children grow. And leave. And hopefully flourish. It's the way of the world. Sure it's hard. And you want them to be little for ever. But it's not how life works.
> 
> All I want is for my family to be happy. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids. If I honestly thought it would make my kids happier I would leave. But I feel I need to be there for them. She will talk badly about me to them and I will lose them forever. I also feel I need to be there as a buffer between my wife and them. They can get to fighting and I am the referee.


You are not a martyr and what you are doing is not virtuous, it’s just weak.

You are capable of much more. Somewhere inside you, you have the ability to be a man worthy of respect, it’s a choice. Choose strength, dignity and self-respect. You choose your life, and you need to start respecting yourself and requiring it from others before anyone (include your wife) will give it to you.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Dave8686 said:


> I will never leave. I made a commitment to her and my girls. No matter what. That is my lot it life. I must accept and make the best of it. I cannot bear to be without my daughters.


A little redundant at this point but if you are not willing to make any changes, what are you complaining about. Sounds a little like you get a certain amount of pleasure out being the victim. After your daughters listened to you getting your ass kicked for five year, you and your harpy's done considerable damage to them anyway. At best, they probably have little respect for you or the fog horn you're married to; and rightly so. BTW, when a woman sez to die, it means she wishes she's never see you again and if your dying makes that happen, so be it. (plus she realize the only way to get you gone is for that to happen.
Hearing you singing the blues about the way you roll over an play dead, it easy to conclude why you don't command any respect. Women, including your daughters, have varying levels (none good) of aversion to men they have little or no respect. In the case of your wife, its an ass load of disgust and aversion whereas with your daughters its more in the form of pity and displeasure.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You change nothing, nothing changes. It sounds like you’ve taught her how she can treat you. Living the life of a martyr is hard and will escalate. These abusive behaviors do not improve.

The sad fact is you are teaching your daughters that abuse is ok. When they grow up they should accept abuse.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Well then, there you have it. You are going to accept this abuse, and subject your daughters to seeing you be abused. How sad for them.
> 
> Also, again, you better face the reality that these teenagers will sometime soon be adults on their own.
> 
> ...


Thank you. But it's not a life I want. I need to see them daily. Be part of their lives.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

VladDracul said:


> A little redundant at this point but if you are not willing to make any changes, what are you complaining about. Sounds a little like you get a certain amount of pleasure out being the victim. After your daughters listened to you getting your ass kicked for five year, you and your harpy's done considerable damage to them anyway. At best, they probably have little respect for you or the fog horn you're married to; and rightly so. BTW, when a woman sez to die, it means she wishes she's never see you again and if your dying makes that happen, so be it. (plus she realize the only way to get you gone is for that to happen.
> Hearing you singing the blues about the way you roll over an play dead, it easy to conclude why you don't command any respect. Women, including your daughters, have varying levels (none good) of aversion to men they have little or no respect. In the case of your wife, its an ass load of disgust and aversion whereas with your daughters its more in the form of pity and displeasure.


Thank you for your kind words. This is the first time I have ever stated my situation in public or even another person.

I don't take pleasure in playing the victim. I never have and apologize for doing so now if that's what I did.

I posted for two reasons. One becauseI felt I needed to say it out loud. I have held it in for years. Two because I was hoping someone might have some advice other than just quitting and running away. I will never leave my children. I made a promise that can't be broken. No man can leave his children. To do so means they are not a man. And truly is not to be respected.

I will suffer and die this way. To leave is to die at that moment.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Whatever is going on is serious. A wife doesn't usually just start hating her husband for no reason. So, what do you think the reason is? 

I'm actually picking up something uncomfortable here. It sounds as if you are a bit obsessed with your daughters. Does your wife think this obsession has turned into something inappropriate? Is that why she has such contempt for you?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> Thank you. But it's not a life I want. I need to see them daily. Be part of their lives.


What will you do in a few years when they are out of high school and you don't see them daily?

🤔


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It just sounds like she did get fed up with you at some point and decide she isn't going to cater to you, as you said, she's not your mother. It sounds like you're doing enough, but it just sounds like something damaged the relationship that she isn't going to get past and has apparently decided to just live with.
> 
> Has there been any cheating in the marriage by either of you? Have there been ED problems that may have caused her to be confused about whether you care or something like that. ED can be confusing in relationships. Has there been any big loss for her, has anyone or a pet died that kicked this off?
> 
> I mean, your comment about if you want a mother, that is the typical thing when you are NOT helping around the house and with kids. But you say you are, so I'm stymied! Now if there was any cheating on your part, I think that would explain why she's no longer invested.


No cheating. No ED. No sex since she was done getting pregnant.

She considers doing anything for me below her. She has never ever catered to me. No man should ever expect anything from a woman that is not their mother according to her. Even the smallest gestures. Are too much. I will make her breakfast. Pack her lunch. Make her tea. Not once I. 20 years has she packed lunch or made coffee for me. And that's fine. But she expects me to. Which is also fine. If she didn't complain if I didn't get to it that day.

Frankly. I would do anything for her and my kids. The problem is that no matter what I do. She never stops faulting whatI do. And I know that sounds whiny. But when criticism is constant. And I do mean constant. It really wears on your psyche.

Thank you for your help


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

theloveofmylife said:


> Whatever is going on is serious. A wife doesn't usually just start hating her husband for no reason. So, what do you think the reason is?
> 
> I'm actually picking up something uncomfortable here. It sounds as if you are a bit obsessed with your daughters. Does your wife think this obsession has turned into something inappropriate? Is that why she has such contempt for you?


I second this.

It sounds like an unhealthy attachment to the point you can't even make rational life decisions. These aren't babies or toddlers. These are teenagers.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> Whatever is going on is serious. A wife doesn't usually just start hating her husband for no reason. So, what do you think the reason is?
> 
> I'm actually picking up something uncomfortable here. It sounds as if you are a bit obsessed with your daughters. Does your wife think this obsession has turned into something inappropriate? Is that why she has such contempt for you?


My wife didn't start hating me overnight. It evolved slowly and picked up speed when I got sick and lost my job. I've since gotten somewhat better and have a job. But not nearly as lucrative as before.

I'm shocked that you think there is anything inappropriate with my daughters. My "obsession " is with keeping my family together. I am a huge believer in being there for my family no matter what. It's my job as a parent to be there not to run away if things get tough. And I am confident she does not feel my relationship with them is in any way inappropriate. Her contempt of me stems from not measuring up to her friends husbands. We get by. Our house is fine. But not freshly remodeled. We don't go on 4 vacations a year to Disney and Aruba.

I could never leave my family. My father left me when I was 4 and my mom when I was 8. I bounced around to various family members. But never had a stable family. it's my duty to support my family no matter what. If I have to suffer the assault of my wife to protect my kids. Then so be it.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I second this.
> 
> It sounds like an unhealthy attachment to the point you can't even make rational life decisions. These aren't babies or toddlers. These are teenagers.


what are you saying? They are my family. You think a teenager doesn't need their father? You think a teenage girl would benefit from their father leaving?

this thread is spiraling into a weird place what is completely false.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I’m not sure what your looking for. You already said your going to suck up all that garbage no matter what. Your scared of your wife when you talk back and she escalated.....if you won’t stand up then your only option is to continue with your current circumstances.
> 
> Sounds like your wife hates her current circumstances and is taking it out on you. She identified you as her life problem. You can forget about having any type of relationship. She is flustered and finished.


All I was looking for was to actually state my situation out loud which I did. I know there is no answer really. I can keep sucking it and taking her abuse. Or I can abandon them and run away. Well I can't run away. So I will continue to take it and protect them as best I can.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> My God man, stop being a weak coward and stop tolerating her abuse. Have some ****ing dignity and self respect. She’s treating you this way because you allowed it, stop.
> 
> YOU are damaging your daughters as much as she is by denying them a strong male model of what they should expect and look for in a husband - which is the opposite of the way you are acting.
> 
> ...


I have done all the things you have suggested. I do argue back. And we she escalates I go for a drive. As far as taking them out in situations like this. Once my wife starts yelling and cursing at me. They retreat to their rooms and listen to me our my wife.

When I say I can't fight back. It's because I have and know it fails and just causes my kids more pain. The only way to protect my kids is to try to keep my wife as happy and calm as possible.

I will not leave my family.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Why are you here if you accept all of this?


I came here to speak my feelings that I have swallowed for years. And for the off chance that someone might have a suggestion other than abandoning my family.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, thanks for the details.
> 
> Do you know what the source of her anger is? Often when a woman screams about a dish it's not about the dish.
> 
> ...


I would do it in an instant. But I am sure she would have no part of it. She would never state her issues to anyone.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Listen, if you divorce, if you are in the US, you can get joint custody of the kids, so I wouldn't worry about that.


Thanks. But I can't do that. I could never leave my family. And even if I could abandon them. I could never afford to support them and myself separately.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Why do you love someone who treats you with disdain? This is not healthy. Do you have a masochistic streak?
> 
> Knights in shining armor get eaten, the prince gets the girl. He is not a pushover, he is a ****ing prince.


And princes do not abandon their families


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave8686 said:


> Thank you for your kind words. This is the first time I have ever stated my situation in public or even another person.
> 
> I don't take pleasure in playing the victim. I never have and apologize for doing so now if that's what I did.
> 
> ...


Since when does getting a divorce mean you leave your children?


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> You are not a martyr and what you are doing is not virtuous, it’s just weak.
> 
> You are capable of much more. Somewhere inside you, you have the ability to be a man worthy of respect, it’s a choice. Choose strength, dignity and self-respect. You choose your life, and you need to start respecting yourself and requiring it from others before anyone (include your wife) will give it to you.


Choose what? Abandoning my family? There is no virtue in that. Just as my father and my mother.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Since when does getting a divorce mean you leave your children?


It most certainly does. If you get a divorce you are no longer part of their lives. The absolute best you can ever hope for is every other weekend. That's 4 out of 30 days.

that is not part of their lives.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

I didn't say I thought anything was inappropriate with you and your daughters. I asked if your wife might think so. You said no, so that eliminates that. You do seem obsessed with them though, but I see now that you were abandoned. Maybe that is why.



Dave8686 said:


> But when criticism is constant. And I do mean constant. It really wears on your psyche.


She has lost all respect for you. Continuing to do things for her only makes it worse.

Stand up for yourself and your daughters. She is abusing them too. There is nothing virtuous or noble about letting this continue.

If you don't want to go, tell her to leave or to at least get some help.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave8686 said:


> It most certainly does. If you get a divorce you are no longer part of their lives. The absolute best you can ever hope for is every other weekend. That's 4 out of 30 days.
> 
> that is not part of their lives.


Where do you live that that's the law?

In the United States the norm is for the father and the mother to share joint custody 50/50 of the children.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Dave8686 said:


> Thanks. But I can't do that. I could never leave my family. And even if I could abandon them. I could never afford to support them and myself separately.





Dave8686 said:


> And princes do not abandon their families


I don't think you'll understand this, because you've been accepting of things for so long, but you've already lost out at giving your family what it should have. You've already, in a sense, a very real sense, abandoned your daughters. To your wife's control, something you will be the first to admit is a very bad thing.

You are worried about something that's much less poisonous to your family than what they've been enduring so far, if what you speak is a reasonable imitation of the truth that an outsider would see. The cure, drawing boundaries and sticking to them, is not worse than the disease. You can't have boundaries without expectation of enforcement, and your wife has gotten away with doing whatever she wants for a long enough period of time that the only relevant enforcement action that you retain is divorce. You must seek a workable relationship and if it's not within the bounds of marriage, then the courts will see to it that it happens after you separate.

Every single time you say you can't take action because you won't split up the family, you're in it for life, you have placed limitations that your wife uses to continue her destructive, dysfunctional ways. You need to rise up and protect your daughters. You need to show them what to expect when they leave home. Think of the messaging they're getting from their mom. I pray it's not too late for you to do something about this.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> It most certainly does. If you get a divorce you are no longer part of their lives. The absolute best you can ever hope for is every other weekend. That's 4 out of 30 days.
> 
> that is not part of their lives.


Not sure where you are, but if your wife behaves like this and you can document it, you stand a very good chance of HER being the one who gets removed from their lives.

Keeping the family together is not automatically the best thing for your children. You are modeling that this is normal in a marriage, which makes it far more likely that they will grow up to have a similar dynamic with their spouse. Is that what you want for their future families?

The only advice I can provide right now is to keep a journal of her actions, documenting each time she blows up. Get it on a voice activated recorder for proof, if you can. Then consult a lawyer about what you might need to do to protect your children from their mother. This woman is abusive.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> You change nothing, nothing changes. It sounds like you’ve taught her how she can treat you. Living the life of a martyr is hard and will escalate. These abusive behaviors do not improve.
> 
> The sad fact is you are teaching your daughters that abuse is ok. When they grow up they should accept abuse.


So the answer is to leave and stop being the buffer between her and them? I will never leave my family.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> What will you do in a few years when they are out of high school and you don't see them daily?
> 
> 🤔


I will miss them. But know they are growing and progressing as they should. It's the nature of things that children grow and leave and have their own lives.

A child growing, leaving home and becoming their own adult is wonderful. A father abandoning his family is not.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Do you want to live out your pathologically warped vision of being a good father; or do you actually want to raise good, strong, healthy kids? 

Those are two very different things, you’re doing a former and failing at the latter. All you’re doing is showing your daughters how weak you are, how weak men are, that abuse is OK and should be tolerated and one shouldn’t stand up for oneself. By tolerating this situation, you are completely failing your daughters. 

There is help here, and there is a way forward. There are a lot of people here who can and will help you and guide you but you have to be willing to improve your situation. 

Unfortunately, you clearly didn’t come here
for help and you’re not willing to improve your situation. You’re not willing to take control of your life and you’re not willing to be the father of your daughters actually need.

So go wallow in your misery and victimhood. Choose to be a weak, incompetent man who is respected by no one. But don’t come here looking for sympathy or someone to commiserate with. There are a lot of good folks here who are willing to give their time and effort and support, but only for people willing to stand up and take action to improve their situation. 



Dude out


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Where do you live that that's the law?
> 
> In the United States the norm is for the father and the mother to share joint custody 50/50 of the children.


How is that possible? Children goto school. Even if that was possible I also feel it's more damaging to a child to live half the time in one house and half in another. Besides I can't afford 2 homes.

The only way I ever saw that working was a family a few blocks over. Each parent got a new place and the kids stayed in their home. Each parent took turns living in the "kids" house for half the month.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Do you want to live out your pathologically warped vision of being a good father; or do you actually want to raise good, strong, healthy kids?
> 
> Those are two very different things, you’re doing a former and failing at the latter. All you’re doing is showing your daughters how weak you are, how weak men are, that abuse is OK and should be tolerated and one shouldn’t stand up for oneself. By tolerating this situation, you are completely failing your daughters.
> 
> ...


I thank you and everyone else for their help. But if the only answer to the problem is to run away from the problem. I don't see how that is an answer.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Dave8686 said:


> So the answer is to leave and stop being the buffer between her and them? I will never leave my family.


No, The answer is to be the example to your daughters you should have been years ago. Show your daughters that what their mother is doing is not acceptable, does not represent what a family should be. Before any discussion with your wife and daughters, define what's wrong in your family (family... it's wrong with your FAMILY and not just your wife) and the corrective action required. Obviously part of this would be counseling, both individual and marriage counseling. The agreement would be that you would accept the recommendations of the counseling, even if they went against your views. If, as you suspect, your wife refuses, then she is refusing the marriage. 

It's. That. Simple. Your daughters will wonder what took you so long to get to this point. You will not lose them. You will gain respect and, FAR more important, your daughters will come of age with less dysfunction themselves. Because right now, you're throwing them into the world in a very dysfunctional state.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dave8686 said:


> And princes do not abandon their families


Nothing says you have to abandon your kids (I am assuming that is what you mean) if you divorce their Mother. Remember what you are teaching them by allowing yourself to be treated that way.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dave8686 said:


> I have accepted that they will be off to college soon. One in less than 2 years. But that's nature. Children grow. And leave. And hopefully flourish. It's the way of the world. Sure it's hard. And you want them to be little for ever. But it's not how life works.
> 
> All I want is for my family to be happy. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids. If I honestly thought it would make my kids happier I would leave. But I feel I need to be there for them. She will talk badly about me to them and I will lose them forever. I also feel I need to be there as a buffer between my wife and them. They can get to fighting and I am the referee.


But your kids are clearly NOT HAPPY with how you wife is acting. If they are late teens, if YOU divorce THEY will have input into who they want to stay with (presumably YOU) -- a family law judge will take that into account. You are letting THEM be put into the middle of your wife going off the rails. You are setting a TERRIBLE example for them of how a marriage should be.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dave8686 said:


> No she is not. Sometimes I think she should be. She has a need to escalate any issue. If something is wrong. She takes action to amplify rather than rectify.


How about when she starts screaming, you tell her "GO F*ck yourself" and then walk away? WHY are you putting up with her abuse?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dave8686 said:


> My wife didn't start hating me overnight. It evolved slowly and picked up speed when I got sick and lost my job. I've since gotten somewhat better and have a job. But not nearly as lucrative as before.
> 
> I'm shocked that you think there is anything inappropriate with my daughters. My "obsession " is with keeping my family together. I am a huge believer in being there for my family no matter what. It's my job as a parent to be there not to run away if things get tough. And I am confident she does not feel my relationship with them is in any way inappropriate. Her contempt of me stems from not measuring up to her friends husbands. We get by. Our house is fine. But not freshly remodeled. We don't go on 4 vacations a year to Disney and Aruba.


So think about this -- she sees YOU as a paycheck to be compared to other paychecks -- NOT as a partner or husband AT ALL. THINK ABOUT THAT. She doesn't care about your illness or what you are providing now. You are giving a BS excuse for her behavior.

[quote[
I could never leave my family. My father left me when I was 4 and my mom when I was 8. I bounced around to various family members. But never had a stable family. it's my duty to support my family no matter what. If I have to suffer the assault of my wife to protect my kids. Then so be it.
[/QUOTE]
WHO SAID you would leave your kids? NOBODY. You will NOT "leave" them. You may have to share custody, but as I said if your wife is terrorizing them as much as you, they will want to live with YOU and your wife would have supervised visitation.
You need to start documenting these interactions (record them if you can)....


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dave8686 said:


> It most certainly does. If you get a divorce you are no longer part of their lives. The absolute best you can ever hope for is every other weekend. That's 4 out of 30 days.
> 
> that is not part of their lives.


You need to see a lawyer -- you have a VERY skewed view of what divorce would mean.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave8686 said:


> How is that possible? Children goto school. Even if that was possible I also feel it's more damaging to a child to live half the time in one house and half in another. Besides I can't afford 2 homes.
> 
> The only way I ever saw that working was a family a few blocks over. Each parent got a new place and the kids stayed in their home. Each parent took turns living in the "kids" house for half the month.


She would have to provide her own home. Once the children are old enough that they can legally leave, they're going to.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Imagine your eldest daughter has gotten married to a man and they are raising a family together.

She comes to you and states the following: He has criticism for every thing I do or didn't do. At worst he is screaming curses at me, telling me to leave the house and even die. And what kills me the most is that he has no regard for how it hurts the kids. When he screams like this at me they retreat to their rooms crying. I almost feel he does this to the kids because he knows that will truly hurt me. I have learned just to accept the tirades. But when it hurts my kids I am beside myself. I can't leave as I can't possibly survive without seeing my daughters but he continues to hurt them indirectly to hurt me. How can I stay? I feel my situation is hopeless.

What would you advise her to do?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> You need to see a lawyer -- you have a VERY skewed view of what divorce would mean.


I think individual counseling (for himself) should come before seeing a lawyer.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Dave8686 said:


> I thank you and everyone else for their help. But if the only answer to the problem is to run away from the problem. I don't see how that is an answer.


Have you ever thought of staying put and running her ass off. There's plenty you could do without hitting the trail but you don't sound like you have the will to anything that involves confronting and dealing with this nonsense. Face it my man, you want her to change without any consequences to you. Ain't gonna happen Dawg.


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave8686 said:


> I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids



Are you? What are they getting out of your marriage? It sounds like her abuse is terrorizing your kids. Seeing their mother tell their father to die? Seeing this dynamic of marriage as an example of what they should accept from a spouse? How is this benefitting them? I think I would be more sacrificial if you left your wife, you would be sacrificing your marriage to save your daughters mental health and give them a safe place to be.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> My wife stopped working when our first CB old was born. It's was truly the best thing. I don't see how kids can be raised with both parents working.
> She does have a part time time job now. 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week. I work full time and am out of the house from about 7am to 6 pm.
> She in no way takes care of me. If anything I take care of her. I cook most nights. Clean every night. Do the food shopping.
> If I am every stupid enough to ask her for anything. Even something as simple as picking up an item on her way home. She tells me that she is not my mother and if that's what I want to go back to her.
> ...


So sorry that you are living this way. How old are your daughters?
This is emotional abuse and you cannot continue to live in this environment. When did this abuse start? Was it when you were sick and not able to be there for the family? Did she take care of you then? It looks like she has lost alot of respect for you and is very bitter and resentful.
Why dont you ask the kids to go to their rooms and take her out to dinner or a public place and ask her outright

1. why does she feel she can scream at you
2. What is it that is bothering her so much?
3. Does she want a divorce because you will not tolerate this treatment anymore
4. You need to lay down some boundaries for the behaviour in the household. Tell her is she screams at you again, you will be walking away and considering your options
5. Start recording these incidents, keep the evidence
6. Are there any personality disorder issues in her FOO? Bio polar etc?
7 You need to man up and put a stop to this and take back control of your own life and your daughters need you to most of all


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> No cheating. No ED. No sex since she was done getting pregnant.
> 
> She considers doing anything for me below her. She has never ever catered to me. No man should ever expect anything from a woman that is not their mother according to her. Even the smallest gestures. Are too much. I will make her breakfast. Pack her lunch. Make her tea. Not once I. 20 years has she packed lunch or made coffee for me. And that's fine. But she expects me to. Which is also fine. If she didn't complain if I didn't get to it that day.
> 
> ...


Oh Please! She has no respect for you at all and you still do everything for her and act like a doormat. Please get yourself into IC to sort through your issues, work on yourself and become a better man. Women do not respond to weakness and you sound very weak.
After a therapist works on you, I guarantee you, you will not want to be with this woman.
Do this for yourself and your girls. Your girls need to see what a healthy man and a healthy relationship looks like and this one is not. Do it for them if you don't want to do it for yourself. 
Stop doing anything for her. If she complains tell her, she works part time and can do it herself. You need to stand up for your self, let her scream, just walk away and close the door. Meet her anger and rage with calmness.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> I would do it in an instant. But I am sure she would have no part of it. She would never state her issues to anyone.


forget MC, work on yourself in IC


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Dave8686 said:


> I will never leave. I made a commitment to her and my girls. No matter what. That is my lot it life. I must accept and make the best of it. I cannot bear to be without my daughters.


And this is why your wife has contempt for you. You are weak. She knows this. A woman cannot love or respect a weak man.


Dave8686 said:


> I will never leave my children. I made a promise that can't be broken. No man can leave his children. To do so means they are not a man. And truly is not to be respected.


A man who lets himself be treated thusly cannot be respected. Not by himself, not by the wife, not by the daughters, and not by society in general.

A divorce would mean 50/50 custody and the ability to contact them via cell phone and social media during their time with their mother. You wouldn't be abandoning them. And you know that. You're just clinging to an old outdated idea that never actually worked because you're scared and weak. 



Dave8686 said:


> I could never afford to support them and myself separately.


Annnd there it is! The real reason. You can't afford to leave. 

Stop hiding behind your kids. Children live what they learn. And what has staying taught them? Than men are weak pitiable creatures and marriage is a miserable institution devoid of love and respect, but full of verbal, mental, and emotional abuse. If it was about the kids you'd have gotten strong and ended the marriage long ago.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Sir, you are not setting a good example for your daughters. History has a tendency to repeat itself in family dynamics. You are not displaying how a father should act. Pardon my bluntness, but you are being a doormat by tolerating these verbal tirades direct at you. You are displaying weakness. You are indirectly showing your three daughters this is normal behavior in my humble opinion. You seem like a fine father and do not deserve such abuse. No one should tolerate such behavior in a marriage. I sense a lack of self esteem as you tolerate the intolerable in my opinion.

I would strongly encourage you to seek counseling from a qualified mental health professional. This could be greatly beneficial to you. Secondly, when your wife goes on one of her rants you remain calm and controlled. The only thing you say to her is “Your behavior is unacceptable”. “Unacceptable“ becomes your mantra towards her. Do not engage in arguments, do nothing to provoke her. Simply ignore her. Something is seriously wrong for her to act in this fashion in front of the children, too. 

Now, why in the world would you want to stay in a relationship such as you describe? I think there is more to this story.
Please seek help for your mental stability. There are also two excellent books you should consider reading “Grow a Pair” by Larry Winget, and “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, about setting boundaries and standing up for yourself. Both are easy reads and well worth the time.

I wish you the best and do hope you can extract yourself from this **** show of a marriage.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you seem to have a very skewed view of both what a real divorce looks like and what is actually best for your children. 

One, if you're in the US, you would not be forced to support your wife's household as well as your own. She would have to get a job and support herself. A lawyer will be able to give you a realistic, rather than fear-based, idea of what divorce would actually look like for you. I think you need it. 

Two, unless you've been a provable danger to your children in some way, you would get 50/50 custody. Which means that you would not be abandoning them. In fact, you'd be their sole parent 50% of the time. That means that, instead of them spending 100% of their time subject to your wife's abuse, they'd only be spending half of their time subject to it. Also, if she's abusing them to hurt you, she'd have less opportunity to do that if you weren't there to see it, so that may actually lower the dysfunction level for them when they're with her. Your children may also be able to have quite a lot of say in who they live with more, as courts often allow teens to choose their primary residence. 

Three, you need individual therapy. Lots of it. Your abandonment issues have led you to say in an abusive marriage for years. Your abandonment issues are still leading you to allow your children to be raised in an abusive home that's going to result in them being all kinds of screwed up as adults. Go get some help. Work on fixing your issues. You'll be not only a healthier individual, but also more capable of being a healthy parent.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Dave8686 said:


> I will never leave my family.


What ju gonna do when wifey poo meets some cat that makes her wet her pants when she sees him smile and he tells her to ditch your azz and be with him. That crap happens every day.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

If you allow yourself to be a doormat, your children will grow up with no respect for you. Also ,children learn the negatives from their parents along with the positives. Would you want your children to grow up to treat their spouses like yours treats you?Take it from a guy who's been there. Nip this in the bud now!!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dave8686 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I am new to this forum and frankly new to taking to anyone about my marriage. We have been married 20 years and have 3 teenage daughters. They are my world and love them beyond words.
> 
> ...


She sounds mentally ill?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> She sounds mentally ill?


Agree. My antenna raised too. Sounds like a PD of some kind.


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

Rowan said:


> OP, you seem to have a very skewed view of both what a real divorce looks like and what is actually best for your children.
> 
> One, if you're in the US, you would not be forced to support your wife's household as well as your own. She would have to get a job and support herself. A lawyer will be able to give you a realistic, rather than fear-based, idea of what divorce would actually look like for you. I think you need it.
> 
> ...


There is no way she could support her household and care for the kids. It's just not possible. I make 6 figures now and barely scrape by.

I would have to support this household and find a room for rent. And even that would be a stretch.

I'm sorry. I should have never posted all this. It was a mistake. There is no answer. There is no hope.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> There is no way she could support her household and care for the kids. It's just not possible. I make 6 figures now and barely scrape by.
> 
> I would have to support this household and find a room for rent. And even that would be a stretch.
> 
> I'm sorry. I should have never posted all this. It was a mistake. There is no answer. There is no hope.


Care for the kids?

They are teenagers.

Parents of teenagers work, full time.

If you make 6 figures and barely scrape by, maybe you need to downside some things.

If both of you working full time couldn't support each of your living independently, you are mishandling some things.

Do you know how many single people there are in the world supporting themselves?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dave8686 said:


> I have accepted that they will be off to college soon. One in less than 2 years. But that's nature. Children grow. And leave. And hopefully flourish. It's the way of the world. Sure it's hard. And you want them to be little for ever. But it's not how life works.
> 
> All I want is for my family to be happy. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for my kids. If I honestly thought it would make my kids happier I would leave. But I feel I need to be there for them. She will talk badly about me to them and I will lose them forever. I also feel I need to be there as a buffer between my wife and them. They can get to fighting and I am the referee.


so when your daughters come to you and their husbands are doing to them as your wife is to you, you are going to advise them “this is your lot in life. Sacrifice yourself for your kids.”

That’s a pretty big line of poo you’re shoveling, using your kids as an excuse to not move forward in life and not fear being alone or without your crazy wife.
Your kids need a better example on how to deal with an abusive spouse. Show them one.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So your situation boils down to this:

You "love" your wife who is always hostile towards you and has been for years.

Her anger towards you is "unrelenting."

Your wife's insane ranting drives your daughters to tears.

You accept your wife's behavior and have learned to cope with it. And while you claim to be "beside" yourself when this hurts your children, you don't proactively do anything in particular to protect them.

You can't leave your almost-grown daughters because you wouldn't survive.

You feel the situation is hopeless.

Okay, I think that about covers it. And, yes, your situation is hopeless. But that's all on YOU. Chances are, your kids will be screwed up and will make poor choices in partners. You will stay with your wife, continue to wallow in your victimhood, and refuse to take responsibility for making your life better. Oh, and expend your emotional energy on putting up with loads of ranting nonsense and finding reasons to remain stuck.

Got it.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Where do you live that that's the law?
> 
> In the United States the norm is for the father and the mother to share joint custody 50/50 of the children.


That may be true, but that then means that those girls would be alone with their toxic mother for up to a week, without their father there to run interference. A friend of mine's dad left her bi-polar mother when she was a kid, because he couldn't handle living with her anymore. Left the kids there, but hey, as long as he's happy right?

I actually agree with the OP that he shouldn't leave his girls - yet. I think he should bide his time until they're both over 15 for example, when no court will force them to live anywhere they don't want to. BUT he absolutely should change the way he handles his wife. OP when she starts, don't engage, go and get the girls from their rooms and leave the house. Keep calm (not easy) and ideally hit record on your phone so you have proof of what really went on until the girls are old enough to choose where they want to live. Then your wife can eat dust.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dave8686 said:


> I can't fight back. Any time I do. She escalates and it terrorizes the kids. The best I can hope for is trying to placate her.


Honey, she is hurting your children. Get out of there and take your kids with you. Record a couple of tirades if you can as evidence.


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