# HELP!, My wife will not talk with me about our sex problems or got to counseling!



## TrevorDrakeson (Jun 23, 2011)

I know that many men have had this complaint before but I truly need some focused advice. My Wife and I have some major intimacy and sexual problems. The thought of sex does not even cross her mind. We have twin boys, 15months, and she has not attempted or initiated a sexual encounter once in that time. Or anytime in the 1.5 years previously as we did our fertility treatments. I have spoken calmly and earnestly about my feelings in this regard, Stressing over and over that this is not about “Sex” but the lack of any adult intimacy. She only wants to kiss and cuddle. She never makes any attempts at actually engaging my in a sexual way. I have researched many sites for things I might be doing wrong. I always try to talk to her about my feelings and not fight about them, but she is very reluctant to talk about this subject. At first she was receptive. I told her that I needed that tactile display of affection. That a peck on the lips and a hug is not enough to show me I am important in her life besides paying bills and doing “Man work”. I have asked if there is something I am doing wrong, and even though she says no, (Having previously researched a woman’s side of this from other sources) I always make sure that the few times we do have sex that she climaxes too. (Before I do) I also make sure that I set the mood for her whenever I can, whether it be massages, or cuddling in front of a movie with wine, or making time to help around the house with the babies and chores. But nothing helps.

The only way she acts intimate for anything longer than a few days is after a fight about our sex life where I make her aware how unhappy I am. But that only lasts a week at most before she returns to the “I don’t have time or I am too tired responses.” I don’t and have never cheated nor is that an option. But I have systematically tracked this over the past year. Makings sure I am cognoscente of things that I might be doing wrong and trying to talk them out with her. But she refuses to actually talk about our problems and would rather just move on and try to ignore the issues. Hoping that by forgetting them and trying harder the problems will just go away. I have asked to go to a marriage counselor but she refuses to go. (Subsequently I will be going by myself very soon)

So I am lost. I can’t talk about it as she always boils it down to me “nagging” her for sex, even though I have spent many a night explaining how men process physicality of sex and intimate embraces differently than women. I have told that I don’t need sex all the time but I need to know that she wants that sometimes. That even though she is tired, or does not have time, or is just not in the mood, that she still desires me in some way and there is a possibility of having sex sometime in the future. As it stands now I always feel like I she does not find me attractive or sex in any way. (Before you ask, to help with that I have lost 20 pounds and am now in better shape than when we were dating.) She will not go to a 3rd party to talk it over. And she will always turn any calm and adult discussion on this topic into a “you just want sex” discussion, completely taking for granted what I am saying. So I am stuck. What do I do? Is this the end of my marriage and I just don’t know it? I feel like I am left with Deal with it or move on (Read divorce) since she will not talk about it with me, talk to a counselor, or now, even acknowledge that this is an issue beyond me “Always wanting sex.” My wife is not a sexual appliance, nor have I ever treated her as such. Any advice would be helpful. 

Trevor


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Trevor ~

Thanks for posting! The story you have, unfortunately, seems to be all too common. Know that you are not alone.

Firstly, your wife has undergone fertility treatments, pregnancy, and childbirth of twins over the last 24 - 36 months. That's a lot of upheaval - both within her body and just in her life in general. It is not uncommon for a woman to have her sex drive diminish during these kinds of changes. A woman's drive seems to be intertwined with so many things that are going on in their lives. Take a look at the article below and look through the potential causes. Do you see any of those as being applicable in you and your wife's life?

Low sex drive in women - MayoClinic.com

The other side of the coin, after understanding what she may be going through, is to look at yourself. You can only change yourself - trying or just wishing your wife would change won't work.  But, if you can see issues or problems with how you are dealing with your wife and the situation, you can modify those behaviours and she may respond to those. And if she doesn't, you will likely still feel better about becoming a better person.

Constantly talking about needing sex or physical affection or pleading or begging for it is likely very unattractive to your wife. That is how children act, not how grown men should act. There's a good thread out in the Mens Clubhouse sub-forum regarding the "thermostat". Take a look at it, and see if you can see yourself in it:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

You may also want to start reading through some of the Man Up/Nice Guy sticky thread, and hopefully one of the men on the forum who have been in the same situation will be able to chime in with additional input:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

I wish you all the best.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

TrevorDrakeson said:


> I know that many men have had this complaint before but I truly need some focused advice. My Wife and I have some major intimacy and sexual problems. The thought of sex does not even cross her mind. We have twin boys, 15months, and she has not attempted or initiated a sexual encounter once in that time. Or anytime in the 1.5 years previously as we did our fertility treatments. I have spoken calmly and earnestly about my feelings in this regard, Stressing over and over that this is not about “Sex” but the lack of any adult intimacy. She only wants to kiss and cuddle. She never makes any attempts at actually engaging my in a sexual way. I have researched many sites for things I might be doing wrong. I always try to talk to her about my feelings and not fight about them, but she is very reluctant to talk about this subject. At first she was receptive. I told her that I needed that tactile display of affection. That a peck on the lips and a hug is not enough to show me I am important in her life besides paying bills and doing “Man work”. I have asked if there is something I am doing wrong, and even though she says no, (Having previously researched a woman’s side of this from other sources) I always make sure that the few times we do have sex that she climaxes too. (Before I do) I also make sure that I set the mood for her whenever I can, whether it be massages, or cuddling in front of a movie with wine, or making time to help around the house with the babies and chores. But nothing helps.
> 
> The only way she acts intimate for anything longer than a few days is after a fight about our sex life where I make her aware how unhappy I am. But that only lasts a week at most before she returns to the “I don’t have time or I am too tired responses.” I don’t and have never cheated nor is that an option. But I have systematically tracked this over the past year. Makings sure I am cognoscente of things that I might be doing wrong and trying to talk them out with her. But she refuses to actually talk about our problems and would rather just move on and try to ignore the issues. Hoping that by forgetting them and trying harder the problems will just go away. I have asked to go to a marriage counselor but she refuses to go. (Subsequently I will be going by myself very soon)
> 
> ...


Trevor,

I think I could have written your post based upon my experiences (except for the twin 15 month old boys).

I think your wife has switched focus to being mother to twin boys and has lost sight of the importance of your relationship with her. She is focusing all of her energies on taking care of them. Therefore, she likely feels she has no time to feel like a sexy woman and is too tired from taking care of them 24/7.

My wife was the same way. I was unable to break her away from that for way too many years. I felt alone and unappreciated. Not a good situation. 

My wife wouldn't go to marriage counseling either. So, I went by myself. I suggest you go, with or without her. 

Try to have a planned date night each week where you get a babysitter for the boys and you spend time with her doing stuff you like to do (dinner, dancing, movies, etc.). By the time you get home, the boys may very well be asleep and you and your wife can have some adult time. 

Good luck. It's a tough situation. I've been there and still struggle with it now that my sons are grown.


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## TrevorDrakeson (Jun 23, 2011)

Thank you for the replies. 

txhunter54: 

I have scheduled a meeting with a marriage counselor. And I agree that my wife is in Mommy mode. I have been doing research on this problem for some time and have made it a point to have date nights and alone time without the kids. The last date night she was too tired and shut down the moment during foreplay. I recently even bought her things from Victoria's secret in the hopes to re-kindly something. It never even crossed her mind to try it on. The last couple times we have, excuse me, I have tried to have sex with her, we have actually begun intercourse and I had to stop because she would find some way to take the focus off of us. 

I a very aware of the troubles that Fertility treatments and pregnancy itself can cause in women and have always tried to take it slow or make her feel better. But it has not helped at all. The latest thing that blew my mind was that she said she was completely happy the way things are. And that I am just making this sex thing into something bigger than it is. 

I hope that counselor will help. But Since she will not talk with me or anyone else, I am not sure what I can do anymore. 

Thanks


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Trevor,
My wife considers it a waste of money to buy sexy lingerie as she said she won't wear it. So, I don't buy any. 

I flat out asked her what would help her get in the mood and she responded "I don't know". I asked her to go to counseling. She said "Maybe" which is her way of saying "No!". So, I went alone. I work on me now. I workout, eat right, enjoy my hobbies while I try to get her to understand the importance of intimacy and sex. You can only take care of yourself and work on you. 

At some point, you need to tell her how unhappy you are and that you have needs that aren't being met. At the same time ask her what her needs are and determine if any of those are not being met.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

TrevorDrakeson said:


> The latest thing that blew my mind was that she said she was completely happy the way things are. And that I am just making this sex thing into something bigger than it is.


Seems to be, unfortunately, a common refrain for many women after having children. I don't know - maybe biologically women are supposed to be focused on their off-spring during the formative years. Even if they are, a woman can still make a decision to engage in intimacy. Your wife has not been enlightened as to the importance of intimacy, specifically sexual intimacy, within a marriage. I do not know how you can get someone to realize this, which is why working on yourself - going to counseling yourself, if you have to - is good.

I do know that in the first few years after I had my boys, it was very difficult for me. I had always been much lower drive than my husband and after childbirth and breastfeeding was even more so, I was exhausted from taking care of a baby and working, I was guilty for having the baby in day care part of the time. It really wore me down. My H didn't let the tether line go though, and I made a determination that I was going to keep trying to satisfy him as best I could. But that was a personal decision on my part, made much easier by the ties that my H and I already had established before babies.

Did you and your wife ever have a satisfying sex life? Did she enjoy lovemaking - was able to 'turn off' the world and 'turn on' to just you? She seems like she is not able to 'turn off' all of those other things that are going on in her overly busy life, and is looking at sex as just yet another thing she has to do in that busy life. Does she give you any reasons as to why she is perfectly happy without having sex?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

TrevorDrakeson said:


> I have been doing research on this problem for some time and have made it a point to have date nights and alone time without the kids. The last date night she was too tired and shut down the moment during foreplay. I recently even bought her things from Victoria's secret in the hopes to re-kindly something. It never even crossed her mind to try it on. The last couple times we have, excuse me, I have tried to have sex with her, we have actually begun intercourse and I had to stop because she would find some way to take the focus off of us.


She is feeling pressured by you to have sex and that is not much of a turn-on for her. Do you flirt with her or subtly pursue her during the day, everyday? Or is it just - bam - here's a box of lingerie I would like you to wear?

One thing is that women are not light-switches. It takes some of them a lot longer to get ramped up and in the mood, and that often takes some amount of time and effort on her partner's side - and not just during sexual foreplay. You should be engaging in foreplay (not necessarily just for sex) everyday - with words, glances, touches, affection.


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## TrevorDrakeson (Jun 23, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Did you and your wife ever have a satisfying sex life? Did she enjoy lovemaking - was able to 'turn off' the world and 'turn on' to just you? She seems like she is not able to 'turn off' all of those other things that are going on in her overly busy life, and is looking at sex as just yet another thing she has to do in that busy life.


Thanks Enchantment,

I would like to think that we had a good sex life before. But when in the doldrums it is hard to see the light. So I can only really hope that she was honest with me before and our sex life was good. But you hit the nail on the head. She cannot separate the world and focus on me. It is like I am at the bottom of a check list under the heading "Will get to if time"


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## TrevorDrakeson (Jun 23, 2011)

Before pregnancy things we good. ( I think) 

As I said previously, it is hard not to color my perception now that I am dealing with a different thermostat level but I think it was good. used to have it multiple times a week sometimes 2 times a day. Not that is obviously without children. But the fertility treatments were hard on her. And she used to be receptive to my feelings about our problems and tried to work at it. but now she is just worried about time with her kids. She does not take time for herself, even when I offer to take the kids off her hands. She will not stop for herself so she will never stop for me. 

I think her driver was healthy before treatments. But since that and the kids, it is non-existent and that really does not seem to bother her.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

The bottom line is that you have told her that sex in the marriage is really important to you and her response has been to show you through her actions that she doesn't care.

I'm glad you are seeing a MC. Maybe she will join you after a while.

Your wife also seems to be trying to minimize your concerns by saying "you just want sex". Well, yeah, you DO just want sex and there is nothing wrong with that. That is normal and healthy. So the next time she says that, say "Yes, I do want sex. And that is an important element of marriage and without it, a marriage won't work."

Maybe when/if she knows that her lack of consideration for your completely reasonable needs are bringing the marriage to the brink of divorce, she will begin to take it seriously. If not, I can't see how a marriage can survive with no intimacy.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

TrevorDrakeson said:


> Before pregnancy things we good. ( I think)
> 
> As I said previously, it is hard not to color my perception now that I am dealing with a different thermostat level but I think it was good. used to have it multiple times a week sometimes 2 times a day. Not that is obviously without children. But the fertility treatments were hard on her. And she used to be receptive to my feelings about our problems and tried to work at it. but now she is just worried about time with her kids. She does not take time for herself, even when I offer to take the kids off her hands. She will not stop for herself so she will never stop for me.
> 
> I think her driver was healthy before treatments. But since that and the kids, it is non-existent and that really does not seem to bother her.


Is she working outside the home or a SAHM?

I have never been a SAHM, and I can tell you that one thing that ate me alive was guilt over having to go back to work and leaving my kids with someone else. Just wondering about your comment of her not even taking time for herself and worrying over having enough time for the kids.

One thing I found out is that even if you don't WANT to take time out for yourself - you HAVE to. You only run yourself in to the ground otherwise, and that is even worse for the kids.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

TrevorDrakeson said:


> Before pregnancy things we good. ( I think)
> 
> As I said previously, it is hard not to color my perception now that I am dealing with a different thermostat level but I think it was good. used to have it multiple times a week sometimes 2 times a day. Not that is obviously without children. But the fertility treatments were hard on her. And she used to be receptive to my feelings about our problems and tried to work at it. but now she is just worried about time with her kids. She does not take time for herself, even when I offer to take the kids off her hands. She will not stop for herself so she will never stop for me.
> 
> I think her driver was healthy before treatments. But since that and the kids, it is non-existent and that really does not seem to bother her.


I think? 

either it was or it wasn't

good luck


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> I think?
> 
> either it was or it wasn't
> 
> good luck


1) He thought it was good, she agreed;
2) He thought it was good, she never said it wasn't.

Answers on a postcard to...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Trevor,
Is your thermostat level set too high for her? Go read the post again. If you are always the one initiating acts of love - you are almost certainly crowding her and THAT is a big, big turn off.




TrevorDrakeson said:


> Before pregnancy things we good. ( I think)
> 
> As I said previously, it is hard not to color my perception now that I am dealing with a different thermostat level but I think it was good. used to have it multiple times a week sometimes 2 times a day. Not that is obviously without children. But the fertility treatments were hard on her. And she used to be receptive to my feelings about our problems and tried to work at it. but now she is just worried about time with her kids. She does not take time for herself, even when I offer to take the kids off her hands. She will not stop for herself so she will never stop for me.
> 
> I think her driver was healthy before treatments. But since that and the kids, it is non-existent and that really does not seem to bother her.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

It could very well be a physical issue, but if she isn't willing to see a doctor about it or go to counseling, there's not much you can do.

If she doesn't think sex is important in the marriage, then tell her she probably won't mind if you get it elsewhere (I'm not advocating that). See what her reaction is. If she she threatens divorce if you ever fool around, then she is admitting it's important.

She has to understand that you promised monogamy, not celibacy. If she isn't willing to try to correct the problem, you can't do it alone.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Trevor,
> *My wife considers it a waste of money to buy sexy lingerie as she said she won't wear it. So, I don't buy any.*
> 
> I flat out asked her what would help her get in the mood and she responded "I don't know". I asked her to go to counseling. She said "Maybe" which is her way of saying "No!". So, I went alone. I work on me now. I workout, eat right, enjoy my hobbies while I try to get her to understand the importance of intimacy and sex. You can only take care of yourself and work on you.
> ...


They put it in the lingerie vault.

I have learned that my wife will give what I buy her a go, BUT she told me that the fabric that I get her is usually not comfortable and so on. Occasionally I do get it right so I don't stop. I am knowledgeable of what I pick out. 

Soooo, she has taken it upon herself to shop for sexy things that are comfortable for her. They are greatness. Yeah, we do like to buy lingerie as that is part of the fun. I just let her know when I am in the mood to see her in some new things and she takes care of business. The surprises are nice.

This works for me. My point is that some women do have this lingerie vault thing. Not your case but if there are things in the lingerie vault that she buys and you never see ... then raise an eye brow.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

txhunter54 said:


> Trevor,
> *My wife considers it a waste of money to buy sexy lingerie as she said she won't wear it. So, I don't buy any.*
> 
> I flat out asked her what would help her get in the mood and she responded "I don't know". I asked her to go to counseling. She said "Maybe" which is her way of saying "No!". So, I went alone. I work on me now. I workout, eat right, enjoy my hobbies while I try to get her to understand the importance of intimacy and sex. You can only take care of yourself and work on you.
> ...


They put it in the lingerie vault.

I have learned that my wife will give what I buy her a go, BUT she told me that the fabric that I get her is usually not comfortable and so on. Occasionally I do get it right so I don't stop. I am knowledgeable of what I pick out. 

Soooo, she has taken it upon herself to shop for sexy things that are comfortable for her. They are greatness. Yeah, we do like to buy lingerie as that is part of the fun. I just let her know when I am in the mood to see her in some new things and she takes care of business. The surprises are nice.

The most positive thing is that we are able to talk about this and make it work for the both of us.

This works for me. My point is that some women do have this lingerie vault thing. Not your case but if there are things in the lingerie vault that she buys and you never see ... then raise an eye brow.


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## Loving_Hubby (Jun 24, 2011)

I sounds as if you and I are on parallel plains. I'm also very open with my wife and try to discuss it but I get very little return. I've back off completely and gone without sex or pressure for sex for a couple months and it didn't help. Like you, the best sex is after a resolved argument (often about sex). After that, back to dreaded normal. She knows how important this is for me and often says that it can only lead to me divorcing her which makes her very unhappy. I would never do so and tell her all the time.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

Loving_Hubby said:


> I sounds as if you and I are on parallel plains. I'm also very open with my wife and try to discuss it but I get very little return. I've back off completely and gone without sex or pressure for sex for a couple months and it didn't help. Like you, the best sex is after a resolved argument (often about sex). After that, back to dreaded normal. She knows how important this is for me and often says that it can only lead to me divorcing her which makes her very unhappy. I would never do so and tell her all the time.



of course backing off and going without doesn't help. that's exactly what she wants. you have to indicate every day you want to have sex and make her say no to you. otherwise, she feels that you understand, won't pester her and it isn't important.

and you telling her you won't divorce her is wrong. again, it reinforces her belief that what she is (isn't) doing is ok in the marriage. if you really believe that, are you really going to hang around for the next 30 years while be sexually unfulfilled? is she going to hang around when you get so frustrated that you look elsewhere?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Okay, Trevor & lovinghubby ~

You guys are in similar boats, but your wives have very different circumstances. Both of those seem to be overwhelmingly emotional things, though. So, are you starting to see now that sexual desire in your wife is a lot more complex for her and wrapped up in many things going on in her life? I'm not saying that it isn't emotional for men, too, but generally for women it is very multi-faceted and dimensional. Trying to think about it in only a linear fashion is gonna get you nowhere except frustrated.

So, break off the problems one by one and start to look at solving them.

Trevor - why is your wife only in mommy mode? what can be done to help relieve the exhaustion she may be feeling? is she working and feeling guilty about being away from your twins? if so, what can be done to alleviate that?

lovinghubby - you've got a bit of an insight into some long-term emotional issues your wife may have regarding intimacy that you can follow-up on.

And as always, if you can be a calm, confident, attractive head of your household who is supportive, but persistent in getting things resolved, most women would find that kind of man very attractive.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

_If she she threatens divorce if you ever fool around, then she is admitting it's important._

No, she's letting you know it's a power and control issue. Look people are not stupid. They're not. They don't walk around and NOT KNOW these things. They don't walk off the altar and suddenly forget what intercourse is or why it is exists. 

They're beating you down. They're forcing their will upon you because they want to. They're tyrants. Either that or they've flat out mislead you on their reasons for pairing up with you in the first place. I bet if you got an honest read from wives and husbands who suddenly forgot about sex, what their real reasons were they'd tell you one of two things - 1) they closed the deal, no further sales activity is needed, or 2) they really only wanted you for your sperm/womb and/or the financial stability you can provide.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> _I bet if you got an honest read from wives and husbands who suddenly forgot about sex, what their real reasons were they'd tell you one of two things - 1) they closed the deal, no further sales activity is needed, or 2) they really only wanted you for your sperm/womb and/or the financial stability you can provide._


_

You forgot the little rolly-eyed dude at the end of your comment, Runs. 

Oh, wait - you weren't being sarcastic? You actually believe that drivel happens in ALL cases?_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

No not all cases but I'm pretty sure that the reason so many people wind up split up is because one or both of the couple are selfish little monsters in it for their own reasons and their reasons alone. I think we've spent 50 years teaching people to be part of the ME generation and guess what? They don't give a **** about you and can't understand why anyone would.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife is in a transition from a girlfriend to a mother.
Don't ask her what you can do. Don't buy her lingerie. What you have to do is make sure you are the type of man and father that she will fight for. Don't be needy and childlike. Be man-like and on top of your life and a leader in your family. At the same time you have to be strong in your belief that marriage is a sexual relationship. Her responses are "fitness tests"... she knows full well that sex is important, but she is trying to assert herself over you. You need to strongly respond to that indicating you are more than happy to clear some room for a new wife, if she feels that she wants to be celibate.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hicks said:


> You need to strongly respond to that indicating you are more than happy to clear some room for a new wife, if she feels that she wants to be celibate.


Just be careful - as she may see this as a fitness test from you! 

Don't get into any kind of game-playing mode with your wife. And don't play the D card UNLESS you are truly willing to walk away from your marriage. And know that playing that card can be emotionally devastating and should not be a card you play as first choice if you have not exhausted other possibilities. imho


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hicks said:


> she knows full well that sex is important, but she is trying to assert herself over you


Just a comment on this... She very well may NOT understand the meaning of sex to HIM. She may understand her own viewpoint of it and what it means to her, but not have any understanding from his perspective. If she sees it as only a physical release for him, she is not understanding the importance of it from his perspective. So, DON'T make assumptions that your wife REALLY understands its importance. Also, don't assume that as a husband, you really understand what it means to her.

And, well, I hope not everything is about who has control ... otherwise that is just going to be a sad marriage. It shouldn't be about asserting or controlling, it should be about learning how to compromise.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Enchantment said:


> She very well may NOT understand the meaning of sex to HIM. She may understand her own viewpoint of it and what it means to her, but not have any understanding from his perspective. If she sees it as only a physical release for him, she is not understanding the importance of it from his perspective. So, DON'T make assumptions that your wife REALLY understands its importance.


I have to agree with this. I been on both sides of this and I swear on the life of my children , I DID NOT KNOW how I was huring my husband back in the day , I never sexually starved him by any means, but he wanted MORE & I just didn't "get it". 

Now granted, he was never one to assert his needs before mine or even go out of his way to EXPRESS how he was feeling, so this further hindered me. He never even faught with me about it ! 

But I can believe the men who DO fight about it (not saying this is wrong after all you are frustrated! ) but many women will not get the needed emotional intimacy aspect of this during these heated exchanges --instead they will only see "He needs a release". 

These women need to read something like this : This is What a Sexless Marriage Feels Like - And yet - Open Salon


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

cool things way down and be patient, back away


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