# Hurtn Update



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Hello everyone,

I honestly had to take a break from posting for a while. I was confusing myself with some of the back-and-forth. I had to take a break and get focused on what was right for me.

And it comes down to this: A marriage without a relationship is nothing but a meaningless legal agreement. A divorce sometimes isn't the end of a relationship; rather, it is the legal acknowledgement that the relationship has already died.

I tried to make it work. Honest to God, I really tried. I worked at counseling. I tried to do a better job. I tried harder to keep the house cleaner. I tried to be a better father. I really, really tried.

But to have my efforts not only ignored, but turned against me was too much. I'm not sure exactly when I realized things between us had died. Maybe it was when I confronted her about some suspicious e-mails and she not only refused to discuss them or acknowledge their hurt, but immediately went to everyone on her e-mail list and told them I was a "snoop."

I tried to engage her in meaningful dialogue, only to have her turn on me and say extremely hurtful and disparaging things.

Even when I moved out, her main concern was not about fixing the problems, but it was on what was in it for her. How much spousal support was I offering? Give me the keys to "my" van. You're not allowed in "my" house unless I'm also here. 

I don't know exactly when I changed from "I'm never giving up," to "I must get out now." But I am feeling freer and more alive than I have in years. That may sound extremely selfish and horrible, but I CANNOT imagine going back into an environment where I have to justify how much toilet paper I use (True Story!) or whether or not 8 hours of sleep per night is excessive. I cannot go back to a suspicious, loveless, sexless marriage. Maybe that makes me weak, but I just can't do it.

I gave her a choice this week....either we begin mediation or I'm going to file for divorce on my own. I'm tired of living in limbo. I deserve better. Our son deserves better.

Some on here will no doubt beat me up for quitting. Others will think I'm a weakling for not having stood up for myself sooner. All I can say is that this is MY journey. I honestly wish I had never married her, but that's water under the bridge. Once I said "I do," I really meant to keep my vows. The only thing that has brought me to this point has been years of behavior that I can only describe as intolerable cruelty. I just can't go on like this.

I feel sad, because in a lot of ways I'm giving up on something I promised I'd never give up on. But in other ways, I feel a sense of relief and freedom unlike anything I've ever felt. The pain and anguish will soon be over. I will still need to interact with her as a co-parent of our son, but our interactions will only be about our son. I won't be forced to try to forge a relationship with a woman who is verbally and emotionally abusive.

Again, some of you will be disappointed by my decision. If that's the case, so be it. I hope you never find yourself in my shoes. And maybe I am doing the wrong thing; I just don't know. But I honestly don't have one ounce of strength left for returning to that kind of pressure cooker. 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Since moving out, she has been the very picture of composure and sanity. But occasionally, I see cracks in the veneer. I just KNOW in my bones if I were to move back in, the verbal abuse would resume. And my son doesn't need to learn that this type of behavior is normal.

I will still check on here occasionally. It's not going to be an easy process. But for the first time in a long time, I feel real relief.

I guess that says a lot, doesn't it?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

We all have to do what we feel it right!
In order for a marriage to work it takes two people!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Hurt:
I have followed your story, and I am so glad that you finally came to a resolution about your dysfunctional marriage. I cringed every time that you described how your wife treated you. I know this was not an easy decision given your religious convictions, and I commend your courage in taking action. 

Sometimes the right path is obscured from us, and it is good that you took your time to make sure that it was the best thing for you and your son.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Hurt:
> I cringed every time that you described how your wife treated you. .


You know what's most frightening to me? The fact that I DIDN'T cringe as I wrote about a lot of the crap she's pulled over the years.

A very dear friend was talking to me about this the other night and my situation was similar to the frog in the kettle. A frog, put in a kettle of lukewarm water, will continue to acclimate itself to the increasing water temperature until it literally boils to death.

Looking back now, I cannot believe the abuse that I slowly acclimated myself to over the years.

I don't know if you recall the story I shared about her physically blocking the door one day and ordering me not to take our son out for a walk. The backstory to this is that I had refused to engage in one of her tantrums and I think it made her so mad that she projected her anger onto me. I was standing there very calmly holding my son's hand, while she raged at me that I was "too angry" to "be safe" with our son. She literally raged at and lectured me for 30 minutes, while I repeatedly begged her to stop because of our son.

At one point, I told her that I was not OK with her tone of voice. She insisted there was nothing wrong with her tone.

Here's what really hurt....about 6 months later, I was wrestling and rough-housing with my son. He accidentally kicked me in the groin. It didn't really hurt, but I did want to make a point.

I told him not to ever kick anybody there, because it hurts. He asked, "Daddy, is that where you keep your tone?"

I asked, "What tone?"

He said, "That tone that Momma hurt you with a long, long time ago....."

What do you say to a 4-year old who asks a question like that?

Uggghhhh....I cannot BELIEVE what I put up with all these years! So many years - and tears - wasted.

Uggghhhhh.....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I could have written this myself.

Hang in there! Life is good.


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## mama2five (Dec 29, 2012)

Hurtn- I havent read your other thread-but it really stuck out to me about the yelling in front of your child.  sadly I experienced this just a few days ago. My STBXH raged like a child in front of our 2 small children. And what do you say to your kids? Its really like a loss for words. Im in ohio to...I wonder if its an ohio thing? Lol..i know its not. Good to hear that you are taking a stand for yourself and the frog in the water really hit home! Its amazing just how much we deal with in the name of love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

mama2five said:


> Hurtn- I havent read your other thread-but it really stuck out to me about the yelling in front of your child.  sadly I experienced this just a few days ago. My STBXH raged like a child in front of our 2 small children. And what do you say to your kids? _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have two comments....

First of all, being disrespectful to your spouse in front of the kids is one of the worst examples of child abuse I can think of. Yelling and raging can permanently damage a child's psyche. To be honest with you, I still recall a couple of bad arguments during my own parents' failed marriage. Events which are seriously upsetting to little ones can carry permanent emotional pain.

Second, you said he's your STBX. This may sound cold, but good! Because I think the strongest message you can give your children is that they don't have to put up with this.

I work with a woman who had five children and was being physically abused by her ex. Like me, she had strong religious convictions against divorce. She said she used to rationalize his behavior, telling herself it wasn't that bad because he had never done it in front of the kids.

One day, he slapped her while she was nursing their youngest. She almost dropped the baby. She said her "momma bear" instincts woke up and she left him. Not so much for herself, as for the kids.

It's been a long road, but she's been divorced from him now for 3 years. She still has to take him back to court occasionally for his stupidity. But she says she didn't want her kids - especially her preteen daughter - to grow up thinking his behavior was normal.

What do you say to the kids? I don't know what you SAY. But your actions in leaving the abuse will speak volumes.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I could have written this myself.
> 
> Hang in there! Life is good.


Thanks, TG. I've always appreciated your perspective!


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I wish, I could have written this. I just took it untill, I wanted to hurt her then I left.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

By the way, my ex was from Sidney, Ohio.


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## mama2five (Dec 29, 2012)

Hurtn your absolutely right. If we dont protect our kids,then who will? It takes alot of courage and strength to leave a marriage. Regardless of the circumstances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

DavidWYoung said:


> By the way, my ex was from Sidney, Ohio.


Well, there are certainly a lot of good people in Ohio, too.

A lot of it stems from her absolutely insane family and the emotaionl trauma they inflicted on her growing up. And they're originally from Missouri. Which is where damn near all of them have moved now to set up their survival compound for the coming Armageddon. But that's another story.

It's not an Ohio thing or a Missouri thing. It's just a screwed-up human thing!

But it's weird how many others from Ohio are on here.

Maybe it's because it's cold and snowy today and all us Buckeyes are inside on the computer! Hahaha....


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## mama2five (Dec 29, 2012)

Hahaha..its snowing as we speak..after hauing sunshine today I thought it was going to melt away,(one can hope ..) i never heard of sidney ohio?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Hurtn, I too am a fellow Buckeye. I have been following your story and glad to hear that you are able to move on. I tried for a couple of years to make a relationship work, but it takes two. I was not able to do it by myself, go figure. However, I look at my first marriage as a training relationship that prepared me for a great marriage that I am in today.

Your marriage may be over, but it was not in vain. You have a great son and in time you too will move on to a relationship with someone that will appreciate you. 

PS: Was your STXW a Wolverine?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

VFW said:


> PS: Was your STXW a Wolverine?


Hahaha...
No, she's a native Ohioan. I'm the transplant.... I'm originally from Kentucky.

Actually, all geographical joking aside, one of the many issues she's chosen to rage at me about is where we should live. She was angry I didn't want to move to Idaho with her parents to.start a survival ranch. Then she and her.parents "compromised" and said they'd accept me moving with them to Missouri. When I finally told her I wasn't going to move anywhere with her parents, she got angry. I offered to sit down and talk with her about different options of where WE (as in she, our son, and I ) could live. She refused, saying I was only trying to isolate her from her parents and that she didn't want to talk about it any more. Then she went and told our friends what an insensitive SOB I was for not buying property with her parents.....

So all this geography joking actually hides a darker reality....WHERE we were going to live, and with WHOM was a huge bone of contention for a couple of years.

But that's kinda how it goes with a personality disorder....every discussion seems to always teeter on the brink of creating some huge new disaster. It's an utterly exhausting way to live.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I forgot one other anecdote. I think I've hinted at this before, but I'm a commercial pilot. As such, I need to pass an FAA physical every year. Around Christmas, I noticed I was having difficulty reading road signs. I hadn't noticed any problems in the airplane, but I figured I should update my contact prescription.

I went to my optometrist. He grunted and clucked for a while. He finally told me that my eyes had gotten BETTER and the reason my vision was blurry was my prescription was too strong. He gave me a weaker Rx. He said the change was so radical that if it was the other way he would suspect diabetes. But he was completely stumped as to why my vision would get so much better so suddenly.

Last week, I passed my FAA physical with flying colors....my vision test showed my corrected vision at 20/20, right where it needs to be. But I had "weaker" contacts in.

I've been reading that excessive stress can hurt your eyesight. This is just s theory, but is it possible the stress of living in an emotionally/verbally abusive marriage with a person who probably has a personality disorder was harming my eyesight?

It's amazing....when I moved out to get "healthy," I thought I meant emotionally. I didn't realize I might be getting physically healthier, too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

VFW said:


> PS: Was your STXW a Wolverine?


Hey now, don't need to be mud slinging over here....! 

(GO BLUE!)

Anyways, hurt - I'm glad you are out and living your life. Its crazy what things you put up with when you look back, isn't it??

My ex cheated on me but was also very emotionally abusive and PA. I read my thread over and just shake my head at the monitor. How did I ever allow myself to be convinced what I felt and thought was so WRONG? 

I'm happy for you. Enjoy life here on out...no regrets and no expectations


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Well, just when I was feeling settled. She called me today and said someone had told her they thought I wanted to try to work things out. She wanted to know what I was thinking. I told her I had been confused for a while, but I didn't think working on things would be productive. We had tried to work on things and that had made them worse. That I just didn't think I had the energy to try. I reiterated to her that some of arguments had affected him.

She agreed that he had witnessed some hurtful things, but she blamed me. When I brought up the "tone" fight, she invalidated my point of view. She said she hadn't blocked me from leaving, that she had merely stood in front of the door and insisted that she go with us on our walk. Hmmm...the reason I was going on a walk was because she was becoming dysregulated and I was trying to disengage. It's not very helpful to disengage if the dysregulated person comes with you!

I told her I feared for my safety after some of the things I had witnessed. She.demanded to know why I felt unsafe....then she repeated her accusation that I had hit our son (not true aside from a few spankings which were not abusive, and which I no longer even engage in).

She said she'd love it if we could work things out and be a family. I told her I didn't feel it was possible, given her tendency toward hurtful behavior. She said she didn't have anything to be sorry for and that she had several people tell her she was doing incredibly well. She even stated that our counselor had told her she was doing great, and that she just needed to be patient and I'd "come around." This is the same counselor who told me trust my instincts when I said I suspected a personality disorder. I've repeatedly asked the counselor if I was crazy, and she's assured me that my only problem is falling prey to crazy-making behavior.

She asked me again if I wanted to work things out. I said I just wasn't sure if that was possible. She said, "OK, I guess I have my answer. " We then began discussing details about the mediation process.

Wow...lots of.conflicting emotions now....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Hurt:
Don't let her suck you back in to her drama. She has nothing to be sorry for? It is still all about her. Stay strong. Do not let her play on your emotions and your loyalty. She knows your vulnerabilities, and she preys on them. Not the loving wife that you deserve.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Hurt:
> Don't let her suck you back in to her drama. She has nothing to be sorry for? It is still all about her. Stay strong. Do not let her play on your emotions and your loyalty. She knows your vulnerabilities, and she preys on them. Not the loving wife that you deserve.


I
I did mention the fact that I was astounded at how we could both look at the same set off facts and come up with completely different interpretations. The same counselor who told me to trust my instincts told her she was doing everything right? A fight we had where I requested that she watch her tone was my fault because some unnamed "other people" had told her they had witnessed another time I had said something similar and they didn't think there was a "tone." She even invalidated me reminding her of a session with the counselor where she began lecturing me and scolding me and the counselor had brought it to her attention. She actually stated I had been the one doing all the talking, not her!

Talk about.crazy-making! I actually started doubting my own recollections. That's not how I remember it! One of us is WAY off on our perceptions!

I pointed that out as an example of how we could never even agree on what happened WITH A TRAINED COUNSELOR IN THE ROOM ACTING AS REFEREE! How could we ever begin to view things similarly when it's just the two of us! 

Man.....guess I'm not as centered as I thought.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I gotta admit, her phone call today has really gotten inside my head. I'm SURE that real change is not probable. But did I give it enough of a chance? Am I a total scumbag for destroying my family? Oh, God! I didn't think I'd still be this confused now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

If you were to give advice to your best friend who was in this situation, what would you tell him?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: Hurtn Update*



hurtnohio said:


> I gotta admit, her phone call today has really gotten inside my head. I'm SURE that real change is not probable. But did I give it enough of a chance? Am I a total scumbag for destroying my family? Oh, God! I didn't think I'd still be this confused now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


STOP!!!!! Right now!!!!

She is just trying the one last thing to get into your head. Don't fall for it. Her admission that none of it is her fault should be enough to know that she isn't truly remorseful.

Please don't beat yourself up. Its what she wants. She wants to get you back under her thumb. People like that don't change in weeks or months, it takes YEARS of IC to get to the root of their issues. Please don't fall for her manipulation!


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> If you were to give advice to your best friend who was in this situation, what would you tell him?


I'd say that if she's still blaming you, even when she's trying to be vulnerable, that itself speaks volumes....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Yes, exactly. Actions, not words. Hurt, you are a Nice Guy, just like my husband and my son, and I cannot stand to see you taken advantage of. Screw your courage to the sticking place, and stop allowing her to manipulate you.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Yes, exactly. Actions, not words. Hurt, you are a Nice Guy, just like my husband and my son, and I cannot stand to see you taken advantage of. Screw your courage to the sticking place, and stop allowing her to manipulate you.


That's what's so weird. I don't feel like a nice guy. After having her say she would love to work things out and essentially telling her "no thanks," I feel like jerk of the year!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

You are a nice guy because you want to please your wife and save your marriage, despite the fact that she treats you with blatant disrespect. It took you forever to see the real her, because you were blinded by your vision of the ideal marriage.

My husband kept dismissing my observations about his alcoholic mother until she fell down the stairs in a drunken stupor, and he could no longer ignore the situation.

I dunno, maybe I am reading too much into your situation because I identify so closely with it.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Oh, and our son was with this horrible woman for 3 grrr awful years! He did not want to hear my advice, so I am dumping all of my wisdom here on you!


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

I had a good phone session with my counselor this week. This counselor is the one I started going to, finally talked my wife into coming to with me, and was accused by my wife of having an affair with her because my wife thought we were "ganging up" on my her. (Personally, I felt challenged at times and validated at times, so I tend to think the counselor was being objective...and there was ZERO love interest between us!)

I have continued to attend sessions periodically to help me stay grounded through all of this. I told the counselor some of the highlights from the past months. The month-long pilgramage to Missouri with limited contact from my son. The fit she threw when she got back where she threw my shoes out the door of the house. Some other things.

I did specifically talk about last Sunday's conversation, where my wife said she'd love to "wortk things out" and "be a family" again. The counselor agreed with me that there didn't seem to be any real indication of a change of heart there. That what my wife really meant was, "Do everything I say, come back home, be my doormat, and things will be great."

I specifically challenged the counselor. I told her point-blank that I insisted that she tell me if I was behaving abusively here. She indicated that she believed my response was appropriate so far. 

I also specifically brought up my wife's interpretation of our last few sessions of marriage counseling. My wife's recollection is that the counselor told her she was doing everything right, and all she needed to do was be patient until I came around. I remember a lot of things, but I definitely never heard THAT! I asked the counselor if she could talk about anything like that which she might have said, consistent with confidentiality practices. 

The counselor was shocked. She said that not only did she never say anything like that, but she's having a hard time even recalling anything she might have said which might have IMPLIED something like that! She didn't come right out and say it, but the implication to me was that my wife was recalling things that didn't really happen. Or recalling them in such a distorted way that no other objective observer could have seen it that way.

My counselor reitereated to me that if I stay, I could be in danger. Not necessarily physical danger - although my wife owns a handgun of her own and knows how to use it. But I could be in danger of my wife calling the cops on me over some perceived episode of "abuse." The counselor says she worked with clients who have BPD and you never, EVER know what to expect.

The counselor believes my best available option is to create space, minimize interactions with her, limit what interactions we do have to our son, and to just be the best father I can under the circumstances. She also encouraged me to get into mediation right now, while my wife is relatively civil, and get an amicable dissolution done to create legal safeguards against the next "episode." And the counselor really believes that future episodes are not "IF," but rather "WHEN" questions.

I hung up feeling validated. It sucks, because I never wanted to be the one to seek a divorce. But after everything I've witnessed over several years, I don't see how I have much of a choice.

I gotta be healthy for my little guy. I have to be THERE (instead of in jail on some trumped-up charge) for my little guy.

I called the mediator this week and told her to start the process.


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