# Ladies, I need a reality check.



## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

*Background info:*
I work a regular job, my wife is a stay at home mom.
We have 3 children ages 4, 2 and 8 months.

A usual day for me is:

1.	Wake up at around 7am
2.	Let the dogs out to do their thing and refresh their bowls
3.	If the kids are up, change diapers and get some breakfast going
4.	Quickly get ready
5.	Pickup after the dogs and head out the door (I try to do it daily, though usually a day or two goes by)
6.	Get to work at 8am
7.	Get home at 6pm (work about 4 miles from home)
8.	Hugs and quick chat with the kids, ask my wife how her day was
9.	Make dinner
10.	Get everyone to the table by about 6:30-7:00pm (wife doesn’t always eat at the table)
11.	Maybe watch a short kids show, boardgame or playdough with the kids if dinner was done fast enough
12.	Get the girls changed into pajamas and ideally the baby as well.
13.	Story time (sometimes me, sometimes their TAG readers, just depends on what they want)
14.	Bed time drinks for the older two
15.	Kids’ lights out by 8pm, with the door ajar and the hallway light on
16.	Get the baby from mama and put him down
17.	Put away yesterday’s dishes
18.	Do today’s dishes by hand until they’re done,
19.	Wipe down the counters
20.	Done by 8:30-9pm
21.	Veg a bit and get the wife things as she requests (make her some tea, get her phone, maker her a snack, whatever)
22.	If applicable do that particular day’s must do chore (ie. put out the trash cans, move the cars for street sweeping.
23.	Head to bed around 10-11pm
24.	Get up to bring my wife the baby 2-3 times a night for nursing
25.	Get up to put the baby back down 2-3 times a night after nursing and usually one diaper change in there somewhere
26.	Get up usually only once a night to soothe the 2y/o
27.	Rinse, recycle, repeat until the weekend for errands and family fun.

My wife is a stay at home mom, so her usual day is herding 2 rambunctious kittens plus the 30lb weight attached to her hip and trying to keep the house neat, while beating back the laundry beast. This doesn’t count play dates and all the other little things that go into a typical day. Though with laundry I do help a bit as well, because we usually end up with a mountain of clean clothes that needs to be folded and put away, so at her request I assist on the weekends. 

She checks out the moment I get home at 6pm to jump on the computer and watch her shows, but usually has to feed the baby to sleep between 7:30 and 8pm.

*The issue:*
Anyway, we had a bit of fight yesterday, because she told me that I needed to do my share around the house so I had to pickup the main room before I came to bed. Mind you there were probably only 2-3 minutes (at most) worth of toys and fallen things to straighten up, but I was incensed. 

I didn’t appreciate being (effectively) told I don’t much around the house or that she felt she could tell me what to do as if I were some kind of servant (whether or not that’s how she meant it, this is how it came across to me).

I told her in a less than civil way to basically stuff it.

She splayed out in the middle of the bed and told me to take the couch (and to be honest, I wasn't terribly jazzed about sharing a bed with her at that point anyway) so I headed out to the main room.

15-30 minutes later she comes out (I’m assuming here) looking to smooth things over and leads in with: “I’m sorry you’re upset, but” at which point I cut her off, told her to save it, because it came across as totally invalidating my reason for being upset. I was mad that her day ends at 6pm and mine ends somewhere between 8 and 9, yet I’m not pulling my weight around the house and therefore I HAD to perform additional work to be allowed to sleep in my own bed.

It didn’t go much better this morning, though I didn’t really have time for a discussion/debate.

Is it wrong for me to feel that while yes her day is tough, that she (like me) shouldn’t check out until the kids are in bed? It would have been much easier to just pickup the room, but I feel like this is just going to keep happening and I’m going to be continue to be irritated by her checking out at 6 and justifying it by saying I don’t do anything around the house and I need to pull my weight. I don’t demand she get a job and pull her weight financially. I didn’t tell her to become a stay at home mom, it was what she decided and we worked together to make sure we could afford it. I tell her if she’s tired of being a stay at home mom we can figure out a way to afford putting the kids in school/care while she works or goes back to school for a master’s or whatever.

Am I off base for being pissed off? Am I missing something obvious? I just need a reality check.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

you are not offbase IMHO

being a mother of young ones is terribly difficult, but it sounds as if your pulling your weight, oh and then theres the whole job thing.

i used to travel extensively for my job, and i hated every minute of it. dinner with clients, meetings, hotels rooms, it all sucked. but my wife, also stay at home, told me once that "you get to travel." that blew me away. i think that a stay at home mom can feel like there is no real appreciation for what she does. but that can work both ways. some men expect their wives to do it all and dont help and resentment can build. alot of men, you and me included, do our fair share around the house while working full time and it seems to go unoticed. i sometimes felt like the fact that i worked really didnt matter cause i still got to get away from everything at home in her eyes. its a tough situation, but it does get better when the kids get older and go to school so she can start her life back up again. be patient and hang in there.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

As okeydokie said the first years are not easy for both parents. Both try to blame each other. I'm a stay at home mother right now and I really do not like it, but I have to.  
I get tired, bored, stressed. Is 24 hours job. The same routine everyday, and no to much time for yourself. I can't even take a nap during the day. Even for a shower I have to wait for my H to get home first. My husband helps me, but not everyday. I don't blame him because he works sometimes from 7am to 6,7,8 pm. But anyway, what you are feeling right now is normal. You have to understand that is not easy for her either. She gets bored more than you do, because she has to stay home most of the time. Imagine yourself staying home for days. I do not go out for days during the winter because of the bad weather. I do not want my kids to get sick. Are sacrifices that we make for our kids. 
Both of you will feel better when kids will get a little bit older.


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## glynnis (Mar 30, 2010)

Wow! I'd love to trade husbands with your wife for a day. Then she'd really have something to complain about. 

Seriously though, you both do a lot during the course of a day. According to your list, you work before work and after work. You are pulling your weight and doing your fair share.

Where I come from, having three little ones so close together in age is called having "stair-steps". Children are a lot of work regardless of the situation, but in your family you've got one in infancy and two others in the same developmental stage of early childhood (ages 2-6). That's got to be very demanding physically and emotionally on your wife. Because she probably feels drained by the time you get home, she may tend to forget how much you do to help keep things going everyday and focus on some trivial thing you didn't do.

"Let cooler heads prevail". Sometimes we lose sight of things when we become disgruntled and feel like situations aren't fair. When things have cooled enough for the two of you to talk without getting into an argument perhaps you can both share with each other all the ways you both contribute to your family life. If both of you ultimately want the same things and are working toward a common goal I'm sure this won't go any further than being a disagreement.


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## FebStars (Jun 29, 2009)

hi dh2cali,

I just saw this from the main section, read it, and sorry, I'm a guy, but I thought I could help. (And I did not vote) 

You have a right to be upset. You do your fair share, if not more! 

Something caught me though, when she came out to see you when you were on the couch, she came out to "smooth things over" like you said. She was not making an "admission of guilt" or pointing the finger - she was making a "repair attempt" for your relationship. In my experience, repair attempts can really bring two people together if both can drop the issue for the time being and come back to it when both people are calm. When you can come back to it when it's calm, no fierce emotions, you both can make much more progress at resolving the issue.

Repair attempt (The Gottman Institute - Marriage- Self Help & Tips):


JohnGottman said:


> Learn to repair and exit the argument. Successful couples know how to exit an argument. Happy couples know how to repair the situation before an argument gets completely out of control. Successful repair attempts include: changing the topic to something completely unrelated; using humor; stroking your partner with a caring remark ("I understand that this is hard for you"); making it clear you're on common ground ("This is our problem"); backing down (in marriage, as in the martial art Aikido, you have to yield to win); and, in general, offering signs of appreciation for your partner and his or her feelings along the way ("I really appreciate and want to thank you for.…"). If an argument gets too heated, take a 20-minute break, and agree to approach the topic again when you are both calm.


She thinks she has a right to be upset too. She might have some reason to think you need to do more, but from what you showed us, you already take care of many things. Perhaps you can put the chores on paper, and give them weights, and show her that you're doing more than your part.

Also, like the ladies stated above, being stuck at home is no vacation for her. 

Good luck!


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## Q*bert (Mar 30, 2010)

You definitely are pulling your weight and making a contribution! The problem isn't you.

Having been in her shoes exactly, the problem seems obvious. Like many stay-at-home moms, she is suffering from kid overload. By the time you get home, her brain is NUMB, and she needs to escape.

That doesn't mean she doesn't love the kids, or love being a mom. It means that after 12 hours of "MaMaMaMaMaMaMa", she needs some space, some quiet time, some relief. And when you get home, YOU are that relief pitcher. 

I remember being so overwhelmed, that when my husband walked in the door, I handed over the reins and checked out. Period.

What solved it was... preschool & daycare. I signed the kids up for 1/2-day preschool twice a week. And I got that breathing space I needed. I got adult time to go to the supermarket ALONE. To have a cup of coffee. To call a friend a chat. To recharge.

Even signing up for a playgroup is a huge help. The moms get to sit around and talk, and collectively watch the kids while they play. Good for the moms, good for the kids. Or, ask grandma to babysit one afternoon a week. It's all good.

Don't resent your wife... just recognize that she needs relief.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You are MORE THAN pulling your weight. 

I get along GREAT with my wife - but we have mad a few accommodations to make each other happy. 
1. If she asks me nicely I will do just about anything
2. If she speaks to me like a servant I immediately stop doing EVERYTHING and tell her in a sharp tone that when she apologizes - and thanks me for all the things I DO for her and the kids - we can talk about whatever it is she wants done - and then until that happens I STOP all non income producing activities. 
3. I go above and beyond for her outside the bedroom
4. She goes above and beyond for me inside the bedroom

I also think you have a seriously uneven distribution of labor. Why is it that she gets to have so much more free time than you do?






dh2cali said:


> *Background info:*
> I work a regular job, my wife is a stay at home mom.
> We have 3 children ages 4, 2 and 8 months.
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

If everything you are saying is absolutely true -with no exagerating, My Lord, she needs a reality check! Apply for her to get on an episode of "Wife Swap" Wife Swap - Home - ABC.com -in exchange for homemaking MOM who cooks from scratch, makes her own clothing, shops with coupons during the day, comes home feeds the cows, cuts the grass & even has more children -while her husband is off working every day to pay for their home & finances. 

I have 6 kids (I had 4 kids under the age of 6 at one period) & stay at home, more than HALF of the things you do I would Not even ALLOW my husband to do. I would seriously get mad if he even tried to -as that would be wasting time = less time for us or our family- when he is home. 

I feel very blessed to be able to stay home, and I do everything possible to cater to him , cause I know he works hard when he is at work, sometimes outside in the snow for hours, in the rain. I have it easy! I even find time for these forums! I would even feel guilty if he did some of the things you mentioned, only if I was recuperating from surgery or something would I dare allow him to live like you described. 

Just my opinion, but here are some of the things I feel she (a stay at home Mom) is expecting WAY TOO MUCH from a 9-10 hour working husband 
>>>>> 

1) Taking care of the dogs business, food & picking up after them every morning (I can see weekends)
2) Making breakfast & changing diapers before you go to work!! (I can see this if you are only cooking YOUR breakfast, as she may be tired from getting up in the middle of the night, but not the whole families)
3) Coming home after working over 9 hours & making dinner !! this one is completely insane. 
4) getting the girls in their PJs & baby ready for bed (not every single night-your responsibilty, maybe ask the girls who they want)
5) doing & putting away dishes & wiping down the counters! Again, insane. This should be her responsibility.
6) Taking care of the trash. (only if it is too heavy or has broken glass or something hazardous)
7) getting up numerous time in the middle of the night for the children. You must get up in the morning for work, she can take a little nap here & there -during the day. 
8) you shouldnt have to touch the laundry -other than getting your clean clothes out & putting your dirty clothes in the hamper.

I seriously doubt diapers need changed as much as some Moms do it. Those things can hold like 8 hours of wetness before they start to leak! I see no reason to need to change any diaper in the middle of the night unless the child has diarahha or has went #2. Do the changing before bed. 

I think it is nice that you read to your children every night though, I am sure they are very happy to have Dad give them that time. Sharing the snack time sounds reasonable. 

What is her routine during the day???? 

As long as your wife has a dryer, I cant see Laundry taking all that much time out of her day. I am not the norm, but to save money, I used cloth diapers for my 1st 4 kids & did not even have a dryer- by choice, I used to hang every article of clothing up by hand -in the basement in winter & worked around the rain in the summer - to dry. Now that I have a dryer, I could never go back, but We have sooooo many conveniences these days, No excuse not to cook for our men, and say the clothes are too much work. 

Have her use a Playpen, gates in a safe child proof room to secure the kids in so she can take little naps if she must, during the day when you are at work. That is really a shame if when you get home, she is ready to go to Bed !! What kind of life is this, not healthy for the intimacy in your marraige at all. I would think this would be driving you *mad* as well. 

Do you think maybe she is getting depressed, this can show itself in lack of energy, and motivation? 

It doesnt help you that WE feel you are doing too much though, you need her to see it. If you/she has never caught a "Wife SWAP" program, try too someday. It is amazing how , when these women change places with the opposite extreme of what they are -how this can influence & change their lives & marraiges, many many eyes have been opened. I have even cried watching this program, it is funny, emotional, enlightening to how the other sides lives & what we can take from that -and apply in our own lives.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Dh2cali your wife needs to go and stay for a while in my country, when most of the men do absolutely nothing at home, or to help his wife with the kids, even if they are not working. Even when are both working is still the wife that takes care for everything. They do not know to cook even an egg, or when they finish eating they don't even try to put their own plate in the sink. Wash it? No way!They would say to you.''It's your job to take care of chores in the house, and our kids, or you are not worth it, and I will divorce you!.'' Believe me is true.  After this reality check in my country, or somewhere else, she really will appreciate what you do for her.:rofl:
But thank God not all them are like that. My husband helps me, when he can and I always thank him for that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The point is, you and she are not sitting down and AGREEING on what each of you is responsible for beforehand. That would settle the issue; it would give you an opportunity to understand what all she does (which you seem to think is a walk in the park compared to you).

While you have a gripe, you also have some realization to do. How many times a week is your wife allowed to leave the house ALONE? As a man, you probably have no idea the sheer overpowering force of being responsible for 3 young ones. It is all-consuming, and she probably gets no respite. (If she does, I apologize, but you haven't listed any away time for her) I only had one kid, and the ONE thing I kept asking for, for over 10 years, as a present, was for my H to take our daughter and go away for the weekend, or at least for a day. Why? So I could be alone - and ME - for just a little while. Not someone's mommy, not someone's wife, not the housekeeper, cook, washer, homework help, etc. Just ME. (He did it once, for 6 whole hours)

I'm not saying she's not acting spoiled or lazy or whatever it is you see. I'm saying that she has a reason she's being like this. She's burnt out.

I would bet money that, if you set up free time for her twice a week, one night and one weekend afternoon where YOU are the only parent for awhile, her attitude would completely change.


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## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> The point is, you and she are not sitting down and AGREEING on what each of you is responsible for beforehand. That would settle the issue; it would give you an opportunity to understand what all she does (which you seem to think is a walk in the park compared to you).
> 
> While you have a gripe, you also have some realization to do. How many times a week is your wife allowed to leave the house ALONE? As a man, you probably have no idea the sheer overpowering force of being responsible for 3 young ones. It is all-consuming, and she probably gets no respite. (If she does, I apologize, but you haven't listed any away time for her) I only had one kid, and the ONE thing I kept asking for, for over 10 years, as a present, was for my H to take our daughter and go away for the weekend, or at least for a day. Why? So I could be alone - and ME - for just a little while. Not someone's mommy, not someone's wife, not the housekeeper, cook, washer, homework help, etc. Just ME. (He did it once, for 6 whole hours)
> 
> ...


In no way shape or form do I think taking care of 2 children and a baby is a walk in the park. I've had them all by myself for a day several times and I know it's not at all easy. And with them being so young, going out of the house to perform errands is daunting to say the least. I know because I've done it.

Hence I wrote the following:


> My wife is a stay at home mom, so her usual day is herding 2 rambunctious kittens plus the 30lb weight attached to her hip and trying to keep the house neat, while beating back the laundry beast. This doesn’t count play dates and all the other little things that go into a typical day. Though with laundry I do help a bit as well, because we usually end up with a mountain of clean clothes that needs to be folded and put away, so at her request I assist on the weekends.


I don't know what all goes into a typical day for her, but I know it's likely more physically exhausting than working at a desk.

I completely understand that the first thing she wants to do is get away from the darlings.

My gripe is not distribution of work. It's being told that I don't do much when my day is longer than hers.

I get up half or an hour earlier than her, usually do some quick task (like breakfast, dog poop, trash, if something has to be done) and when I get home at 6, I am still "on the clock" until around 9, whereas she's "off the clock" at 6.

I consider my time in the office and her time alone with the kids as even. My gripe is I put in 3 more hours than her when I get home. If she continued working around the house until we put the kids down, I'd be happy.

I don't need her to tell me I'm doing a great job around the house or thank me for helping (that's my duty to her, we're married, it's a partnership). What I need is for her to not actively minimize what I do and to not check out until we get the kids down.



> I would bet money that, if you set up free time for her twice a week, one night and one weekend afternoon where YOU are the only parent for awhile, her attitude would completely change.


 She has "House" nights with a mutual friend where she goes out grabs starbucks and watches the show. We also have a beer night that we trade off going out with our mutual friends. Also it's not uncommon of for me to take the older two early in the morning on a weekend to go to Disneyland for a few hours.


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## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

Again my reason for requesting posting in the first place is she told me flat out that:

1) I do not do enough around the house.
and
2) She feels justified in jumping on the computer at 6pm every day and letting me handle things for the rest of the night.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Understood. But again, this is about what YOU see and what SHE sees - which obviously are two different things. Thus the need for sitting down and reaching an agreement, rather than her being burnt out and just disappearing as soon as you get home and you growing resentment because she does so.

Discussing it ahead of time, when you're not stressed out, will allow BOTH of you to explain what you're not getting in this arrangement, and agree on a more equal distribution.

I would also suggest you consider my suggestion of taking the kids away - all of them - once in awhile so she doesn't feel like she's in prison. Beer night and House night are escapes, but don't really fix the situation. The bottom line is that you both are obviously resentful. What are you going to do to fix that?

Or are you saying she doesn't have the right to be resentful since you 'take over' every night?


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## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> Understood. But again, this is about what YOU see and what SHE sees - which obviously are two different things. Thus the need for sitting down and reaching an agreement, rather than her being burnt out and just disappearing as soon as you get home and you growing resentment because she does so.
> 
> Discussing it ahead of time, when you're not stressed out, will allow BOTH of you to explain what you're not getting in this arrangement, and agree on a more equal distribution.
> 
> ...


My reason for posting is to see if I really wasn't pulling my weight around the house.


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## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

I've tried to get us on a work plan. Agreeing on something that spells out who's responsible for what, but I haven't gotten any interest in creating such a schedule from her.

Mind you this was not suggested in the heat of an argument. I suppose though it's time to try again.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Actually, I think one of the real issue is that you are both sleep-deprived. No one should be getting up 2-3 times/night with an 8 month old unless the baby is sick. I breastfed two babies (both premies) and I know that by the time they are 8 months old, they are physically able to sleep through the night. I was unwilling to "sleep train" my 2nd one so we went years with disrupted sleep. It does very unpleasant things to your psyche (there are studies on it). It doesn't matter how long you are up each time as much as how many hours of sleep you get in a row, undisturbed. Seriously consider sleep-training the baby and then deal with the other issues.

I do not agree at all that you are much doing more than your fair share. I think you would be better off-as a couple--if you did some chores together (although the kids will always want her to help if she's involved, so getting them used to asking for/accept each of you even if she's around is essential). It's great for you kids that you are so involved, so maybe you and she could share non-kid tasks--make dinner together, fold laundry together, those kinds of things. She can take her free time when you are taking care of the kids (she probably doesn't eat with you b/c of the kids wanting her help if she does). 

You are right that being a SAHM w/3 little kids is more physically demanding than a desk job, but you both need some "kid free" time to enjoy each other and get some exercise. Consider hiring a local kid to watch the children for an hour after dinner, 2 weekdays and maybe some more on Sat/Sunday. Use that time to walk briskly, job, or bike-together-whatever suits you both. You'll both be more tired at first, but stick with it and in a month or so, you'll both find you have more energy overall.

Are there tasks you could farm out? Things that could wait until the weekend? Ways to plan simpler meals? There are a lot of ways to save time and energy for more important things. It takes a bit of "up front" effort, but is usually worth it in the long run. I will bake potatoes and chicken on Sundays to use 2-3 times throughout the week, for example. You could make part of Sunday afternoons "cook time" and include the kids--make a couple of soups or easy-to-make dishes (quiche, casserole), things that reheat easily during the week. Again, if this is a family or couples task, all the better. 

I tried to get my ex to live by a rule: no one sits down until everyone sits down. (Didn't work). She may need to create a new routine of afternoon rest time for her and the kids during the afternoon--say, two hours where kids are in their room, sleeping or coloring (make the room safe so she doesn't have to worry about them) while the baby and mom nap. She's probably using nap time to get work done-bad idea. She needs that rest and would be able to do more in the evening, with you, if she took it. 

But start by sleep training that baby and get 6 hours of sleep in a row (at the least), most nights, for both of you!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I had also wanted to say that my D19's doctor wanted her off the bottle (I expressed milk cos I worked) by 12 months. Maybe your baby is ready to move forward.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Get a posterboard and write down everything that gets done in the house in a given week. Color code everything according to how long each takes. If one thing takes lots of time, like it takes 2 minutes to take out the trash, but it takes 30 minutes to fold and put away towels, whoever takes out the trash chooses two things to equal the towels.

It's been said that those things we care about the most, is what we should sign up for. If a super clean kitchen gives you peace, while your wife doesn't notice the dirty dishes, you should volunteer to clean the kitchen - to avoid resenting your wife for not meeting your standards. 

The way I've seen it done, you go down the list, taking turns, selecting things you are willing to do - you, then her, then you, then her, to keep it fair - until they're all 'chosen,' or until you have a pile left that neither wants to do. THEN, you sit down and really negotiate how those things are going to get done.

That way, you each know what you're responsible for and you don't go around looking to see if the other person is pulling their weight, cos the other person's tasks aren't on your radar any more - less stress all around.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

(sorry, I'm having posting problems)

Also, a 4 year old is old enough to start learning how to clean up. Our D19 went to Montessori school and the prevailing theme there was you play with one toy at a time, and you can't have another one until the previous one is put away! A great habit to learn in any event.

fwiw, I never really answered you, but I do believe you had a right to be ticked off. That said, it behooves you to understand WHY she did what she did, instead of just being mad at each other. That benefits no one and solves nothing. And leads to divorce. 

That's why I pushed for you to see things from her side. Plus, like you said, you responded in a less than civil way, so honestly SHE was responding to YOU, just like you were responding to the resentments you had been piling up about her before that.

Bottom line, you two need to talk.


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## dh2cali (Mar 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> It's been said that those things we care about the most, is what we should sign up for. If a super clean kitchen gives you peace, while your wife doesn't notice the dirty dishes, you should volunteer to clean the kitchen - to avoid resenting your wife for not meeting your standards.


Haha, if we went about it that way, I wouldn't be on the list at all. If left to my own devices I'm afraid to admit that I'm a slob. I clean, because she likes it clean and if I leave it that's just another source of frustration for her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why you need to talk. Ahead of issues.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Dh, I almost asked about that--my guess is that she resents messes you make and that you may not clean up, or at least not adequately. Does she complain that she has to clean after you? Be careful of that--huge resentment builder, having to clean up after another adult (with the only other choice, unless you are rich, being "having to live with their filth."

As for the chores no one wants: those are DEFINITELY ones to do together. Chores are never as onerous when done with a companion. I can work a lot longer on household chores even with my elderly mom just sitting near by b/c I have someone to talk to and it is so F*CKING BORING!! 

Good luck.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I am not secretly voting ladies... see my thumb isn't purple. However, I recognize this complaint and I would take it seriously guy. This was my ex's number one complaint. I chose not to validate it, and it had definite consequences.

My thought is she is probably upset about something completely unrelated to your household contributions boss. That's why your compiling lists and saying "WTF" woman. 

However, my gut tells me that the "help thing" is just running cover for whatever that "real thing" is that she's not feeling comfortable talking to you about. Thus, the surrogate complaint.

Your mission should you choose to accept it, is to approach your wife and lovingly ask if there is anything that you can do to help her when you're at home, and if anything else is bothering her. 

Frankly, just swap the items that your currently performing guy, for the ones she'd like you to do and it's an even time swap. However, this way as you are doing what she "needs" you to do, you effectively defang her complaint snake. You both win. She gets her help. You get the appreciation and recognition for all that you do. Wait, why did you get two things and she only got one? No wonder she's mad, Geesh.

LIL


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That brings up a good point. If you go to marriagebuilders.com and print out the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires and both fill them out, you can see what she actually DOES want from you (her ENs) and what you do that bothers her (your LBs), you can better focus your efforts so that she appreciates what you DO do. For instance if her EN is conversation, but you think she wants domestic help and you do all this stuff for the house but never give her good adult conversation (since she's around 3 kids under 5 all day!), she'll still be upset with you. 

And she needs to know what YOU like and dislike, too. 

Try them out. They've saved a lot of marriages!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey ... I know this story.

Spouse had 2 horrific pregnancies. I picked up all of the slack. Working 50 hours, shopping, cooking, cleaning, bill paying etc.
Did it without complaint, because you do what you must to get by.

But , pregnancy transitioned into infants and toddlers - the burden never shifted back into a distribution of labor and responsibilities. In a karmically ironic way, our marriage was undone by the two primary reasons for getting married; sex and children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know, the more I think about it, in all the years I've read on forums like this, the ONE most common reason that marriages suffer is because a Giver marries a Taker. Or, at least a decent person marries a Taker, and that decent person _becomes_ a Giver in an attempt to keep the Taker happy. 

But the truth is that, really, the Taker is only happy when surrounded by Givers. Because the Taker has no intention of becoming a Giver. And the Taker really couldn't care less that the Giver is suffering. As long as he/she gets to keep Taking.

Thus the number TWO issue in marriages, IMO: establishing personal boundaries for what you would accept in any decent life. If your spouse/Taker abuses those boundaries, you/the Giver need to end the relationship. Because it will never turn around unless you say no more.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow, you want to come live with me? 

Actually, my husband is a great guy so no complaints. I think what you need to do is BOTH pitch and help out and when the work is done you BOTH take time off. They are BOTH your kids. Yes, she is taking care of them during the day but you are WORKING too. It's not like you are sitting in the park playing poker with your buddies.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> Thus the number TWO issue in marriages, IMO: establishing personal boundaries for what you would accept in any decent life. If your spouse/Taker abuses those boundaries, you/the Giver need to end the relationship. Because it will never turn around unless you say no more.


Boundaries need to be set BEFORE you get married, before you even "get serious" with someone. Too many people put aside their own definite needs, etc., for a while--for as long as they can. Then the relationship/marriage is already established and harder to dissolve.

Hmm, could this be the same message as, build healthy self-esteem before getting into a committed relationship? As far as I know, healthy self-esteem is the ONLY way to find out who YOU really want/like, b/c w/o it, we are too busy trying to get someone to "take" us, doing all we can to please them so they'll accept us, without wasting any energy on deciding if THEY are what WE want. 

But, I'm probably preaching to the choir. If it were that easy, we'd have all done it from the get-go and wouldn't be here now, after setting boundaries ourselves or having our spouse set them, which too often leads to a major marital disruption and possibly divorce!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

turnera said:


> You know, the more I think about it, in all the years I've read on forums like this, the ONE most common reason that marriages suffer is because a Giver marries a Taker. Or, at least a decent person marries a Taker, and that decent person _becomes_ a Giver in an attempt to keep the Taker happy.
> 
> But the truth is that, really, the Taker is only happy when surrounded by Givers. Because the Taker has no intention of becoming a Giver. And the Taker really couldn't care less that the Giver is suffering. As long as he/she gets to keep Taking.
> 
> Thus the number TWO issue in marriages, IMO: establishing personal boundaries for what you would accept in any decent life. If your spouse/Taker abuses those boundaries, you/the Giver need to end the relationship. Because it will never turn around unless you say no more.


BINGO!!!!!:smthumbup:


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I actually suspect that most relationships that end up in the crapper, start off and maintain healthy relationship status for a long while. At least long enough that you hope and believe that you can work your way back to healthy as the relationship begins to erode.

My spouse _did_ meet my needs - and I was a priority for years, this is usually what closes the sale for marriage - until children. I, as I'm sure most men would, recognized the need for a shift in the balance of the relationship. Young children need to be cared for, nurtured and attended to. Complaining about being low man on the totem pole while your spouse struggles at home with youngsters makes one sound like a whiny b!tch. So ... we wait it out. But in many cases, the wait doesn't end. And when we do raise the issue or protest, lo and behold, we are still perceived as whiny b!tches. We establish and enforce our boundaries and make the transition from whiny b!tch to selfish, inconsiderate a$$hole.



sisters359 said:


> Boundaries need to be set BEFORE you get married, before you even "get serious" with someone. Too many people put aside their own definite needs, etc., for a while--for as long as they can. Then the relationship/marriage is already established and harder to dissolve.
> 
> Hmm, could this be the same message as, build healthy self-esteem before getting into a committed relationship? As far as I know, healthy self-esteem is the ONLY way to find out who YOU really want/like, b/c w/o it, we are too busy trying to get someone to "take" us, doing all we can to please them so they'll accept us, without wasting any energy on deciding if THEY are what WE want.
> 
> But, I'm probably preaching to the choir. If it were that easy, we'd have all done it from the get-go and wouldn't be here now, after setting boundaries ourselves or having our spouse set them, which too often leads to a major marital disruption and possibly divorce!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or...you sit down together and discuss it as you go along so that resentment doesn't build up. You ask her what she needs from you as far as raising the kids, and you do it, and you tell her what you need in the relationship so that she sees what's happening.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm stealing a quote from Corpus Wife, because the illustration is beautifully simple and appropriate.

"You can't juggle with one arm."

The kicker is, you don't discover that until you've tried it for a good long while. You can absolutely sit and have those conversations, but when you have had enough of them, from which nothing continues to comes - you give up juggling, and find yourself a yo-yo, or maybe take up spear-fishing.


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