# HELP I can't figure out my wife!



## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

OK great title and great first post. Honestly I just found a relationship forum that seemed legit because I really need some advice and insight here...



So I've been married just over a year. I am a pastor by trade, used to be in education, have degrees in English and Pastoral Studies, so you'd think I would be able to deal with some marriage problems on my own...

I pride myself on being able to solve unsolvable problems, but my wife is a total mystery to me.



Some background... My wife was born and raised in an extremely wealthy family in the Dominican Republic. At 17 her political family got screwed and fled to the US. They ended up in South Bronx Section 8 where they have been for the past 7-8 years living welfare check to welfare check.

We were engaged for two years before marriage. Once we got married the crap hit the fan. My wife seems to have been a very talented actor, because she was able to disguise her complete lack of money management skills, lack of drive to do much of anything in life, and what I think might be some sort of bipolar-like disorder.

Nothing I do seems to get through to her. We have had counseling, and the first (and only thus far) session she yelled about how I don't give her enough money. We have made a budget together and I have made multiple monetary concessions to her, and she even agreed with the budget, but every few days she will start screaming (literally) about how we need more money and that I am secretly spending our money (she has access to all the accounts btw...)

She is becoming more and more listless and I am feeling like I am taking care of a five-year-old and not actually having a wife. Idk if our marriage is on the rocks, but I am getting extremely tired of trying to get my wife to act like an adult and not a spoiled kid.

For the record I am currently doing most of the cooking, cleaning, and paying all the bills and managing the money (she doesn't know how and her attitude toward money would put us into bankruptcy in no time.) We both work full time, and she even has a job doing something she enjoys doing.

I am being as honest as I can (I am a pastor after all) and I can't figure out why my wife is so... (fill in the blank yourself.)

We do have more marriage counseling appointments coming up in August, but this is just a coincidence as my work wants us to do this to move up the ladder and I have serious doubts about the credentials of the "employee counselors."

Any help and insight is appreciated. Thanks.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

"from extremely wealthy family" is your first issue, she went most of her life with no regard to having to earn it herself??? the 7-8 years living from welfare to welfare probably only made her bitter about what she DIDNT have, not that she was grateful for what she still had. 

Now, maybe some of this comes down to cultural differences between the two of you? How is a woman in high society treated in her country once married? We're taught here than, for the most part, being happy is the reason you get married, but lets face it, it doesn't always happen that way. 

She sounds like she was born into privilege, was expecting something more with the marriage due to her initial upbringing, and is possibly bitter about the last 7-8 years in which she had to "survive" not thrive. I hate to use the world "spoiled" but a certain aspect of that has to be taking into consideration.

Sounds like marriage to her was supposed to come with a certain pre-destined expectation that isn't being fulfilled in her eyes. Can/Is she willing to accept what she's got? or is that expectation of marriage too much for the lifestyle for which your limited too?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I am being as honest as I can (I am a pastor after all) and I can't figure out why my wife is so... (fill in the blank yourself.)


1) Counseling should continue, and you can't wait until August to do so. 

2) I think that when you treat an adult like a child, you can't expect them to behave any other way. You don't trust her to cook, clean, or handle money (even though she manages to have a full time job). She in turn acts out because she probably feels restricted and controlled by you.

3) Budgets are great, but there should also be room for fun. 2 people who work full time jobs should each have money to spend on things they want, not always things they need. Does she have access to 'fun' money? What happens when she wants new shoes or an outfit? Do the two of you go out together? 

She may in fact be a spoiled brat, but you knew that before you married her based on what you know of her upbringing. She grew up a rich girl and ended up poor very abruptly. I'm sure that was very traumatizing for her. She has an idea of the standard of living she would like to have, and maybe she's angry that you aren't living up to her ideal and taking it out on you.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

it sounds like this all boils down to money, not love. she wants/needs more of it, and you can't deliver the amount that is required to make her happy. how sad. so she resorts to yelling at you, like a little kid when she doesn't get what she wants. you should not tolerate her yelling for one more split second and tell her that. if she wants to talk - fine. but if she is going to yell at you, you will need to leave the room. give yourself a timeout. go for a drive, go to a movie. this is not avoiding the issue. this is letting her know that you will not be spoken to that way and will not take it. you must have had blinders on when you married her, because she is all about $. if, after counseling, she cannot come to terms with your salary, she'll need to move back home with her mom and dad. maybe they can tolerate her entitlement more than you and maybe she'll find her sugar daddy one day. good luck to her and hopefully that guy will see what she's all about. 

you sound like a nice guy - you work hard, cook, clean. you'd don't deserve a woman who belittles you and doesn't appreciate you.


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

> Now, maybe some of this comes down to cultural differences between the two of you? How is a woman in high society treated in her country once married? We're taught here than, for the most part, being happy is the reason you get married, but lets face it, it doesn't always happen that way.


You make a good point Thumper. I have not really looked into how women from this culture are typically treated once they are married. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that my wife wants to be able to buy what she wants, when she wants, regardless of what the checkbook says.



> I think that when you treat an adult like a child, you can't expect them to behave any other way. You don't trust her to cook, clean, or handle money (even though she manages to have a full time job). She in turn acts out because she probably feels restricted and controlled by you.


Yeah you are right A Bit Much. I have worked really hard to get where I am, have been through some really crappy times, and I just WILL NOT let my wife derail our finances and well being, so yes I am a bit controlling when it comes to the money. But in all honestly I would rather not be the money manager of the household, but it is a role of necessity I have taken on.



> Budgets are great, but there should also be room for fun. 2 people who work full time jobs should each have money to spend on things they want, not always things they need. Does she have access to 'fun' money? What happens when she wants new shoes or an outfit? Do the two of you go out together?


I'd like to clarify that we are not all_that_poorly_off_financially. We go out to eat 7-9 times a month, each have individual spending money, and have a personal trainer at the gym we go to, all of which my wife agreed to on our budget...



> Sounds like marriage to her was supposed to come with a certain pre-destined expectation that isn't being fulfilled in her eyes. Can/Is she willing to accept what she's got? or is that expectation of marriage too much for the lifestyle for which your limited too?


This is exactly what I have tried to discuss with her many, many times. I think she just doesn't want to accept the reality of our finances and what we are capable of.



> you should not tolerate her yelling for one more split second and tell her that. if she wants to talk - fine. but if she is going to yell at you, you will need to leave the room. give yourself a timeout. go for a drive, go to a movie. this is not avoiding the issue. this is letting her know that you will not be spoken to that way and will not take it.


Well I will have to try this strategy IsGirl3. I am not one to back down naturally, but I want to solve problems ASAP. Next time I will let her know I won't tolerate it and I will leave for a bit. Thanks for the tip.



> you must have had blinders on when you married her, because she is all about $.


Yeah that is how I feel right now.

:scratchhead:


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I have worked really hard to get where I am, have been through some really crappy times, and I just WILL NOT let my wife derail our finances and well being, so yes I am a bit controlling when it comes to the money. But in all honestly I would rather not be the money manager of the household, but it is a role of necessity I have taken on.
> 
> I'd like to clarify that we are not all_that_poorly_off_financially. We go out to eat 7-9 times a month, each have individual spending money, and have a personal trainer at the gym we go to, all of which my wife agreed to on our budget...


Okay, so the finances are something you and you only will take care of. What's up with the other things though? The house, the cooking... why do you do all of that too? You both should share responsibilities. 

I would remind her that she agreed upon the budget. I would also not tolerate being yelled at. The only way to diffuse that is to walk away when she starts in. Come right out and say if she's not going to lower her voice, you will not stand there and take it. You'll return when she's calmed down. If she's disrespecting you it's your responsibility to put a stop to it. 

If she's all about the money, there isn't much else to say. I would hope she married you for love, but that may not be the case.


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

> Okay, so the finances are something you and you only will take care of. What's up with the other things though? The house, the cooking... why do you do all of that too? You both should share responsibilities.


Going into marriage I made it very well known what I wanted in a wife and what my needs and expectations were. She did nothing but agree with me for the most part. What I wanted was a wife who would be more of supporter and not so much the type of woman that goes after a career and what not (not that there's anything wrong with women and careers.)

Since we've been married she has pretty much gone the other way, saying that she wants to start a business and work multiple jobs in order to fund her shopping. Needless to say she does not understand the logistics behind all of that...



> I would remind her that she agreed upon the budget.


We do that dance several times a week. We have gone back and looked over the budget again. We have even tweaked the budget together. If she spends more money she gets mad that we aren't saving more, and if we save more she gets mad that she isn't spending more. I really don't get her logic, if she has any logic to begin with behind her complaining.



> I would hope she married you for love, but that may not be the case.


Here's the thing: she knew very well going into marriage that I was a pastor and that I had no other career plans for the forseeable future. She did nothing but agree with me even though I warned her many times that we would never have more money than middle-middle class at best.

She tends to compare her spending with her coworkers, which are lower class individuals with no spending restraints (think inner city neighborhoods.) I have tried and tried to explain how money and budgeting works, and I know she understands it, but then I don't get why she keeps fighting it.

If this keeps up I can't see her sticking our marriage out. Not to mention the fact that this is making me very grumpy and overworked. Just last night I caught myself wishing I was single again so I could actually have free time and money. Something has got to change if our marriage is going to survive.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Rev K said:


> She was able to disguise... what I think might be some sort of bipolar-like disorder.


Rev, perhaps your W does have bipolar disorder. But that is not what you're describing. Rather, the temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and other childlike behavior are traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).


> Once we got married the crap hit the fan.


If your W really does have strong BPD traits, that result is to be expected. BPDer relationships usually go off a cliff -- changing greatly -- right after the wedding ceremony is over. Certainly, that's what happened to mine.


> My wife seems to have been a very talented actor....


BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) generally are good actors. Because they have such a weak and fragile sense of who they are, they tend to mirror the personalities of other people around them -- so as to fit in and be loved. Given that this mirroring starts in early childhood, BPDers tend to be good actors by the time they are adults.


> I am feeling like I am taking care of a five-year-old and not actually having a wife.


Think a little bit younger. If she is a BPDer, she likely has the emotional development of a 3 or 4 year old. A BPDer's emotional development is believed to be stuck at that young age due to heredity and/or a trauma (e.g., abandonment or abuse) occurring before age five.


> Nothing I do seems to get through to her.


If she has strong BPD traits, it likely will be pointless to try to reason with her on any sensitive issue (and nearly every issue will be sensitive). BPDers typically are not interested in finding compromises or solutions but, rather, in creating drama. The drama is needed to "validate" their false self image of always being "The Victim."


> We have made a budget together and I have made multiple monetary concessions to her, and she even agreed with the budget, but every few days she will start screaming (literally) about how we need more money and that I am secretly spending our money (she has access to all the accounts btw...)


BPDers typically lack impulse control, with the result that they will do things impulsively (e.g., binge spending or eating) without considering the consequences. Moreover, a BPDer perceives of her intense feelings as "facts," i.e., as accurately reflecting her reality. This is why the promises made by BPDers are only good until the next mood change, at which time her reality will change. If she even remembers making the promise, she will be convinced that it is okay to ignore her promise because you somehow "forced her" into making it.


> If she spends more money she gets mad that we aren't saving more, and if we save more she gets mad that she isn't spending more. I really don't get her logic


If she is a BPDer, she doesn't feel constrained by logic. As I noted above, her reality is dictated by whatever intense feelings she is feeling at the moment. Moreover, she has a strong need to validate her false image of being "The Victim" and thus will blame you for everything. It therefore is logical that she will get mad at you when you do something and equally mad when you don't.


> Any help and insight is appreciated.


Rev, I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits all nine traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether her BPD traits are at a moderate to strong level and are persistent. Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot any and all strong BPD traits that may be occurring. Although you are incapable of diagnosing her issues, you likely are very capable of simply spotting the warning signs for BPD.

An easy place to begin reading is my post describing the 12 differences I've seen between bipolar and BPD behaviors. That post is at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/59344-confused.html#post1175425. If the BPD traits described in that post sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of BPD traits at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Rev.


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## Jack99 (Nov 21, 2010)

Looking at it through the 5LL perspective (Five Languages of Love, a book recommended on this forum that I read), her language of love might be receiving gifts. This might be a stretch, I'm just trying to fit the model. In that case, you could try to appease her sense of not receiving anything by giving her some kind of occasional, nice gift, obviously not too expensive. 

I wouldn't acknowledge her yelling. Just walk out of the room until she learns to speak reasonably with you. 

From here, it looks like she's never accepted the reality of no longer being rich or privileged. Maybe you could give her an inspirational book about how the best things in life are free. 

Also, it seems she likes to create drama, which is why it's important to never let her get to you. 

She appears to be quite deceptive, as once she got married her behavior immediately changed. 

The good news is that you don't have kids. Also, she works and can support herself, therefore there's no alimony to deal with. In my opinion, the cons (dishonest, can't accept reality, creates drama, doesn't do any work around the house, overspends, high-maintenance) vs. the pros (works) strongly favors just going ahead and getting divorced. 

You seem like a really nice guy. Good luck to you.


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

> the temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and other childlike behavior are traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).


Without taking the time to respond to all your quotes individually I've got to say it is like you are reading into my life.

My wife has no impulse control, and she flip flops like crazy. One minute she will be completely smitten with me and I practically have to kick her off of me, and then later in the same day she will be screaming and throwing cups claiming I'm cheating on her and spending our money on prostitues (and I can assure you I'm not doing that...)

She also exhibits OCD and is, as you alluded to, oblivious to reason.

I will definitely be researching BPD more and letting our counselors know about this, and hopefully they will listen to me.

Thanks a ton for the advice.





> Looking at it through the 5LL perspective (Five Languages of Love, a book recommended on this forum that I read), her language of love might be receiving gifts. This might be a stretch, I'm just trying to fit the model. In that case, you could try to appease her sense of not receiving anything by giving her some kind of occasional, nice gift, obviously not too expensive.


You may be right, and it's certainly worth a try. I doubt this is a cure for BPD (which I'm 95% sure my wife has now,) but it may help until a more permanent solution is reached.


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

God be with you if you're married to someone with BPD. That's a very difficult road to travel...


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## led_zepp (Jun 12, 2013)

Rev K said:


> Without taking the time to respond to all your quotes individually I've got to say it is like you are reading into my life.
> 
> My wife has no impulse control, and she flip flops like crazy. One minute she will be completely smitten with me and I practically have to kick her off of me, and then later in the same day she will be screaming and throwing cups claiming I'm cheating on her and spending our money on prostitues (and I can assure you I'm not doing that...)
> 
> ...



I just figured out my wife is a Borderline .....
A little info to get you going on Borderline* (credit : Shrink4men)*



*13 Signs Your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or a Narcissist*

Here are some common side effects of being in an abusive relationship, whether the abusive individual has a personality disorder or not:

1) Censoring your thoughts and feelings. You edit it yourself because you’re afraid of her reactions. Swallowing the lump in your throat and your hurt and anger is easier than dealing with another fight or hurt feelings. In fact, you may have stuffed your own emotions for so long that you no longer know what you think or feel.

2) Everything is your fault. You’re blamed for everything that goes wrong in the relationship and in general, even if it has no basis in reality.

3) Constant criticism. She criticizes nearly everything you do and nothing is ever good enough. No matter how hard you try, there’s no pleasing her or, if you do, it’s few and far between.

4) Control freak. She engages in manipulative behaviors, even lying, in an effort to control you.

5) Dr Jekyll and Ms Hyde. One moment she’s kind and loving; the next she’s flipping out on you. She becomes so vicious, you wonder if she’s the same person. The first time it happens, you write it off. Now, it’s a regular pattern of behavior that induces feelings of depression, anxiety, helplessness and/or despair within you.

6) Your feelings don’t count. Your needs and feelings, if you’re brave enough to express them, are ignored, ridiculed, minimized and/or dismissed. You’re told that you’re too demanding, that there’s something wrong with you and that you need to be in therapy. You’re denied the right to your feelings.

7) Questioning your own sanity. You’ve begun to wonder if you’re crazy because she puts down your point of view and/or denies things she says or does. If you actually confide these things to a friend or family member, they don’t believe you because she usually behaves herself around other people. 

8) Say what? “But I didn’t say that. I didn’t do that.” Sure you did. Well, you did in her highly distorted version of reality. Her accusations run the gamut from infidelity to cruelty to being un-supportive (even when you’re the one paying all the bills) to repressing her and holding her back. It’s usually baseless, which leaves you feeling defensive and misunderstood.

9) Isolating yourself from friends and family. You distance yourself from your loved ones and colleagues because of her erratic behavior, moodiness and instability. You make excuses for her inexcusable behaviors to others in an effort to convince yourself that it’s normal. 

10) Walking on landmines. One misstep and you could set her off. Some people refer to this as “walking on eggshells,” but eggs emit only a dull crunch when you step on them. Setting off a landmine is a far more descriptive simile.

11) What goes up, must come down. She places you on a pedestal only to knock it out from under your feet. You’re the greatest thing since sliced bread one minute and the next minute, you’re the devil incarnate.

12) Un-level playing field. Borderlines and Narcissists make the rules; they break the rules and they change the rules at will. Just when you think you’ve figured out how to give her what she wants, she changes her expectations and demands without warning. This sets you up for failure in no-win situations, leaving you feeling helpless and trapped.

13) You’re a loser, but don’t leave me. “You’re a jerk. You’re a creep. You’re a bastard. I love you. Don’t leave me.” When you finally reach the point where you just can’t take it anymore, the tears, bargaining and threats begin. She insists she really does love you. She can’t live without you. She promises to change. She promises it will get better, but things never change and they never get better.


*How do they approach relationships?*

The Borderline Woman: “Please love me. I didn’t mean it. Don’t leave me.” Initially, the BPD will mutate into the woman she thinks you want her to be. This ideal fantasy woman has nothing to do with who she is in reality. She’ll do everything in her power to please you in order to make you love her and then the mask starts to crumble.

Can you feel sympathy for her?

The Borderline Woman: Even when she’s off the charts crazy, there’s still something sort of pitiful about her. It’s easier to feel sympathy for a BPD, but pity and guilt shouldn’t be the glue that holds a relationship together. It doesn’t negate the consequences of her emotionally abusive behavior, whether the hurt she inflicts is intentional or unintentional.


Is she capable of empathy? 

The Borderline Woman: BPDs can be guided to feel empathy by reminding them of specific instances when they felt bad, but it’s usually pretty fleeting. Bottom line: A BPD’s emotional distress takes precedence over everything and everyone else, no matter how empathic she may seem to be from time to time. Furthermore, empathy from a BPD often comes with strings attached.

Is she capable of giving?

The Borderline Woman: BPDs are givers, but it comes with a price. It’s part of what I mentioned earlier about doing anything to please you to get you to love them.

Most of the behaviors I’m describing are entirely unconscious. These behaviors are learned at an early age and some of them may be hardwired. Whether she’s more NPD or BPD, both traits are extremely painful and damaging to the people who love them.


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

> Initially, the BPD will mutate into the woman she thinks you want her to be. This ideal fantasy woman has nothing to do with who she is in reality. She’ll do everything in her power to please you in order to make you love her and then the mask starts to crumble.


This sums up our courtship perfectly. Our relationship was long distance, but I spent 2 months with her and her family after finishing up a work contract overseas, and she was always so vibrant and willing to accommodate. She somehow disguised her total lack of motivation, lack of cooking skills (I still don't know how she managed to pull that one off,) and narcissistic world view.

After we got engaged we saw each other whenever we could. and there were really only two incidents to speak of, but I now realize I shouldn't have given her the benefit of the doubt when she did break down those two times.

I don't want to villainize my wife, because she does work after all, and she also does do some chores (albeit poorly and whenever she gets around to them, which usually takes days if not weeks.)

________________

Now here's the thing: she is in complete denial of this and continues to blame me for everything: according to her nothing is her fault, and she doesn't even contribute in the slightest to any of what I'll call her "emotional breakdowns."

How should I approach this in counseling? I have a bit of time until our counselors are back (we resume in August) so I want to make sure I handle this in the way that is most likely to bring about the best long term results.

Should I talk to our counselors privately to let them know about this stuff, or should I wait to bring it up in a session with my wife? And how should I phrase things and what evidence should I bring to the table?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think you should make a list of things you want to bring up in counseling. I also think you should mention to your wife you are having these issues BEFORE you get back in session so that she's aware. Tell her to make her own list of issues she has with you.

I don't think anyone can help you with phrasing or evidence. These are all subjective and you are the only person besides your wife that can do that. Each of you has your own perception of what's happening in your marriage. The counselor is there to help you both sort it out and understand one another better.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Rev K said:


> How should I approach this in counseling? ... I want to make sure I handle this in the way that is most likely to bring about the best long term results.


Rev, I took my BPDer exW to several MCs and 6 psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years -- all to no avail. Based on that experience, I offer several recommendations:

*As an initial matter*, if you believe your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Because the projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, her conscious mind will be firmly convinced that the projection is coming from you and is true. Hence, instead of telling her, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist and let the psych decide what to tell her.

*Second*, if she has strong BPD traits, going together to a MC likely will be a total waste of time. A BPDer's issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. Until those underlying issues are addressed in intensive IC for several years, MC may be counter-productive by teaching her communication skills that will just make her more skillful at manipulation.

*Third,* even if your W has full-blown BPD, there is very little chance her therapist will tell her, much less tell you. When clients are high functioning BPDers, therapists are loath to tell them (or family members) the actual name of the disorder. Instead, she likely will be told only about the related side effects, e.g., depresson or anxiety. This information is routinely withheld from BPDer clients and their family in order to protect the sick client. 

There are several reasons for this, which I explain in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909. It therefore is important that you see a clinical psychologist (not a MC) -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you are dealing with. 

I encourage you to see a psychologist who has never seen or treated your W. Relying on your W's therapist during the marriage for candid advice would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for advice during the divorce. It is important that you be advised by a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers.

*Finally*, I note that, even when a person's BPD traits fall well short of the diagnostic threshold for "having BPD," those traits can be strong enough to make the spouse's life miserable and destroy the marriage. Importantly, a woman satisfying only 70% or 80% of the diagnostic criteria -- who therefore is diagnosed as "NOT having BPD" -- can be nearly as difficult to live with as a woman meeting 100% of the criteria. Thus, for the purposes of deciding whether to remain married to this woman, it really should not matter much whether or not her BPD traits satisfy that diagnostic threshold.

Hence, a diagnosis of "no BPD" does NOT mean the person is safe to marry -- or remain married to. This perverse outcome is the result of the APA (American Psychiatric Association) capitulating to the insurance industry in 1980 and adopting a dichotomous method for diagnosing all personality disorders. Insurance companies were insisting on a bright line. Never mind that it is ludicrous to take a "yes or no" approach to diagnosing spectrum disorders.

Doing so is the equivalent of declaring everyone under 6'5" to be "short" and everyone under 300 pounds to be "skinny." Not surprisingly, this nonsense -- of "having" or "not having" BPD -- has been an embarrassment to the psychiatric profession for over 30 years. A large segment of the APA therefore has been lobbying for many years to replace this dichotomous approach with a graduated methodology. 

Indeed, the APA committee charged with creating the new DSM-5 (released last month) recommended exactly that. This is why the draft DSM-5 made no mention of the old dichotomous approach for several years. It was replaced with the new graduated methodology. Last December, however, the general membership voted against that new approach to diagnosing PDs.


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

To update this thread, I have talked with my wife, and after much denial and blame shifting on her part, I finally got her to admit and agree that she lets her emotions go out of control (regardless of the cause.) It has been about a week and she has not denied this or flip flopped, so I am starting to see a bit of hope.

I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist by any stretch of the imagination, but I am in the business of fixing people and personal problem solving. I say that because I believe that my wife's BDP-like tendencies are most likely the result of 1. her moving to a different country abruptly, and 2. going from wealth to poverty overnight, both of which took place at the same time when she was 16 or 17.

All in all I'd say her "princess complex" (which she undoubtedly developed from living in affluence during her childhood and early teen years) is fueling the trauma created by the above-mentioned events.

I suppose marriage counseling can be a double-edged sword, so I don't know what to expect there when we do start back up. But since my wife does not recall suffering any childhood trauma I'd like to hold out hope that her BPD-like symptoms are not that deeply seated.

To be honest things have been slowly improving in our marriage. The worst was around marriage months 3-8 where the "tantrums" were unbelievable. She used to be uncontrollable and could not be reasoned with, but she has gotten better at controlling her outbursts and they have been getting shorter.

Don't get me wrong, when she goes off the handle it is still no picnic, but I think that my patient teaching and reteaching and reteaching responsible behavior is starting to sink in.

I suppose the best case scenario would be that she is very emotionally immature and needs reality to smack her in the face to start acting like an adult (think really immature 30-something-year-old living in mom's basement with the comic book collection and all.)

Our "counselors" are not able to prescribe anything and I'd bet money that they can't even officially diagnose any mental problems. I may not even bring the BPD-like behavior up in counseling (we have to do this as a hoop to jump through for moving up in my line of work.)

Thanks all for the support and information. I'm hoping for a happy ending here.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Rev K said:


> I suppose the best case scenario would be that she is very emotionally immature and needs reality to smack her in the face to start acting like an adult (think really immature 30-something-year-old living in mom's basement with the comic book collection and all.)


I agree, Rev, if you mean she is a 30-something behaving like a 14 year old. Yet, if she has a persistent and strong pattern of BPD traits, you are talking about a person who has the emotional development of a 4 year old. 

When that happens, the person is unable to control her emotions, do self soothing, trust herself or others, or intellectually challenge her intense feelings. I therefore hope you are right about her BPD traits being flareups caused by enormous stress -- not being a persistent lifelong problem of stunted emotional development.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Well not to stereotype but do you think her screaming and temper has anything to do with her cultural background. I have never dated anyone from D.R. but have a few girls from P.R. and oh boy, when they get mad I'd want to dig a cave and hide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rev K (Jun 13, 2013)

> When that happens, the person is unable to control her emotions, do self soothing, trust herself or others, or intellectually challenge her intense feelings.


The intensity, duration, and frequency of her outbursts have gone down, and while reasoning is not always effective, sometimes reason gets through to her after she has had a minute to cool down.

Idk if she qualifies as a severe BPD, but she does still exhibit the symptoms, sometimes annoying and sometimes scary.



> Well not to stereotype but do you think her screaming and temper has anything to do with her cultural background. I have never dated anyone from D.R. but have a few girls from P.R. and oh boy, when they get mad I'd want to dig a cave and hide.


To an extent, yes, but she definitely goes over the top when she has an outburst.


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