# Ancient History but just coming to terms now



## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

Hello TAMs folk,

Like many I have been lurking here for several months before posting. I found this site when I was at a particularly low point (in both my current relationship and life in general) and it really has been an enormous help to me. I can’t say it felt good to read how many people are going through the same pain I experienced. However, I was truly amazed to see the level of concern and assistance being offered by internet strangers to people who were reaching out. This was particularly poignant for me because I never reached out to anyone, in fact, no one knows the true details of how my marriage ended. Maybe due to pride, I’m not really sure. In any case, I now realize it was definitely an unbelievably stupid thing to do.

Anyway, I’ve decided to tell my tale of woe here. I figure it’s a good place as any to start (and better than most). I’m not sure yet if I’ll be asking for any specific advice, but feel free to offer if you have any. I mostly just want to get this off my chest. I’m hoping it will be therapeutic/cathartic, whatever. I’ll try to not make it a life story, but I make no promises regarding the length 

I’ll give a little background to help you all decide if you want to read on. I was the BS in my marriage. Together for 10 years, married for about 8. Separated/divorced about 10 years ago. Dated for a few years and have been with my current girlfriend on-and-off for 8 years. Currently living together. No signs of infidelity in current relationship. This thread is mostly about the failed marriage.

So, I met my exW back in high school. We casually dated a bit but mostly just hung out in the same crowd and were good friends. We were all pretty hard partyers and fell into various bad scenes over time. She ended up pregnant and married at 19. I ended up losing my fiancé due to a drunken ONS while she was away at school. But, my fiancé got a little revenge by sleeping with my “best friend” when she found out. I ended up losing my fiancé and my 3 closest friends because of my stupidity. I guess, for a wayward, I was lucky because I learned very young just how much damage an affair can do and I’ve never come close to repeating the mistake.

My future exW and I lost touch for a few years and then she contacted me out of the blue. She’d divorced her husband due to untreated alcoholism and was reaching out to old friends. She now had two daughters, aged 2 and 5. I’d cleaned up my act, re the drinking, and had a good job. We started hanging around together but not dating. We were both casually dating other people, and I have to say she had an “interesting” taste in men. Her binge-drinking ex looked like a prince by comparison because at least he had a job. After reading MMSLP I get it now, but at the time I could only shake my head in disbelief.

Funny thing here, I had initially avoided getting romantically involved with her because I didn’t want the responsibility of dealing with a woman with kids. However, in the end, I think I fell in love with those little girls before I fell for her  In the end we did get together, got married after a year (had to wait for an annulment from the Catholic Church, mostly to appease my parents, I was and am now firmly lapsed) and bought a house. A real nice little nuclear family.

Things went great for about the first 1.5 years together and then we had a horrendous bombshell dropped on us. The exH, who had the girls every 2nd weekend, had been s*xually abusing our older daughter for several years. She never said anything, in fact, he had taught her that this was normal!!!!

More coming. I need a break…


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

G*d d*mn. I don’t know how many of you have been the parents in that situation but the guilt and imp*tent rage is un-f*cking bearable. I would have gladly gone to jail to put that POS out of our misery. But then the girls would have been without a father, so you suck it up and pray the justice system will do something. He did 2 years hard time at a max security facility here in Canada, where a fellow inmate knocked all his front teeth out to “improve access”. Got out and did another stint a few years later for possession of child p*ornography. Died of lung cancer a few years ago. I shed no tears for that worthless POS.

The younger daughter is the one who told when he tried something with her.

So, I resolved to be the best, loving, non-threatening father I could possibly be. The girls had been exposed to the worst POSs and jerks and I was going to be the opposite. I’d be there no matter what. I'm not trying to sound noble. I think it's what any father does in that situation.

Anyway, at some point we realized I wasn’t going to go much farther in my job without a degree. So we saved up for a year or two and then my exW went back to work while I went to school (I needed two years to finish up). After 3 months she was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and had to stop working. I switched to part-time work (new job) and school for a few months and then full-time work when I was offered a promotion. Started working 40-60 hours a week, taking every hour of overtime I could get. 

Fibromyalgia was pretty new at the time so treatment was limited. My exW got gradually worse, sunk into depression and would have periods where she wouldn’t get out of bed for days. She did get counselling and medication but over time I had to take over running the household. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, doing my daughters hair, everything in addition to working. Essentially a single parent.

Regarding our sex life. Initially it was great. I actually think I was pretty badly sleep-deprived during our first two years together .Maybe not surprisingly, after the news about our daughters, neither of us was feeling particularly sexy. Neither of us did much initiating and she had previously been the initiator close to half the time. I actually didn’t give it much thought until one of our daughters’ counsellors mentioned that it was important for us to project a loving, healthy, appropriately sexual relationship. At that point I realized that we had dropped off to perhaps once a month. Over time it got gradually worse until we hit our record of 18 months without contact. I remember expressing angst to a buddy of mine that "I didn't even get a HJ on my birthday!"

For THE FIRST FEW YEARS, I tried typical Beta tactics (eye rolling can start here). When she was too tired I would take on even more around the house. When she was depressed I would reassure her that I loved her. When her weight fluctuated I would complement her and buy her new clothes that looked good on her. Guess what? It didn’t work! Surprise surprise.

She would have brief periods where she would improve, lose weight, be active, take care of her appearance, spend lots of time with the girls, but still little to no sex. In the last few years she started treatment for BPD, so that may explain these cycles…as well some other things.

This went on for 7 years. By the last two years my attitude had changed. At some point I started getting bitter, both about the work I was doing and the lack of sex. I actually remember thinking, “After the guys she used to date and what I do for her, she should be worshipping the ground I walk on”. Actually I think it was something like “she should be treating me like a sex God” but lets be reasonable here . In any case, that’s when the prefect husband and father façade started to slip. The compliments turned to complaints. I started trying to shame her out of (or into) bed. That didn’t work either.

I could keep going on but you get the picture. The worst thing is that I started being short with my daughters as well. When things started getting bad I made a commitment that I would stay as long as I was still being a positive influence in their lives. My parents had “stayed together for the kids”, constantly tearing each other apart in front of us, and it did us no favours. At some point I realised that I couldn’t keep myself from taking my frustrations out on them if I had to live with their mother every day. I felt like a complete sh1t but I filed for divorce.

We lived like room-mates while the divorce went through. We had talked about me adopting the girls but had never followed through on it (oh God I wish I had now). So they were to stay with their mother. I gave her the house along with everything but my personal assets (clothes, CDs, etc) and agreed to pay child support (it was questionable regarding whether I had to and my lawyer was salivating to fight it but I didn’t want to deprive them). We kept things as amicable as possible up to the last moment together.


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

So, you may be asking, why is this in the Coping With Infidelity section? Well here we go…

Literally, on my last trip to the house to collect the last few odds and ends, I was going through all the cr*p in the basement storage. My exW was a bit of a packrat so it was not an easy task. While flipping through various boxes I came across an old candy box. When I looked inside I found a few dozen photographs, a mixture of polaroids and print outs from my early generation digital camera. There was my exW scr*wing guys on camera. Some guys I recognized (her manager at her short-term job and a threesome with a couple who had lived beside us for 3 years). Some self shots and others not. I could tell some were old (before we were together) and others not. I recognized her weight fluctuations, hair-styles and some of the lingerie I HAD BOUGHT FOR HER!

There I was sitting alone in the crummy basement. Surrounded by all her sh!t. Realizing that the last 10 years of my life had been a lie. Everything I had done for her. A lie. Everything we had gone through. A lie. What I had offered was meaningless to her.

Anyways, you get the point. Many of us have been there. It’s horrible. Ten years out, I do realize it may have been meaningless to my exW, but it wasn’t meaningless to my daughters.

I guess where my story strays from the norm is what happened next. After I pulled myself together I went back upstairs. What I saw was like a scene from a bad TV movie. There was my charming exW, standing there with a tear in her eye and a faltering smile. My daughters next to her with tears streaming down their faces. So what do I do? I looked at my daughters and did my final, ultimate, pathetic Beta act of the marriage. I sucked it in and said nothing. My wife gave me a hug saying how much she would miss me. I hugged both of my daughters and told them it was going to be OK and that I would see them soon and I left.

At the time I’m sure I was in shock. After that, I think I was so embarrassed that I had been such an idiot, I said nothing. I just decided that I sure didn’t need to feel bad about leaving her anymore and pretended to shrug it off.

What doing nothing really did was:
-Throw me into a depression that I have only started to have treated in the last five years.
-Make me devote myself to a job that I hated, because it was safe. 
-Lead me to periodically avoid my exW and daughters for months at a time when I felt so furious that I didn’t want to see her face
-Poison my attitude toward women for years to come. Subconsciously I have kept myself distant from everyone I have dated since. I assume to avoid being hurt, not “if they cheat on me”, but “when they cheat on me”

Anyways. Ten years have gone by. The exW is completely gone from my life. The girls are grown up so I don’t need to see her when I see them. She’s moved to another city and I haven’t spoken to her in several years now. My older daughter is in another city as well. I speak to her periodically but she is busy with her life. My younger daughter still lives here but our relationship is strained temporarily (I hope). She went through a period of self-diagnosed depression after graduation where she just sat around the house playing video games for months. She moved in with me for a while and I applied a little tough love. She’s in better shape now (working, in a relationship) but I suspect she’s still holding a grudge. Then again, my father was an idiot when I was 20 as well, but got a lot smarter over the next 10 years 

Current relationship has been strained at times, but we’re holding it together and seem to be getting better. Thank God I found this website. Between the posts and recommended books, I’ve really started to come to terms with all this cr*p I’ve been holding on to.

So, to anyone that is still reading, I guess the only questions I have are 
-“Is there any point telling my exW what I know?” 
At this point, I really don’t give a rats-*ss about her. I don’t even feel particularly angry at her. I’m more angry at myself for letting this poison me for so long. I’m sure I’ve painted her as a monster here, but she’s just a really messed-up woman. We worked hard together to help our daughters heal. I don’t think I’d get much satisfaction from lording it over her now.
-“Is there any benefit to discussing this with my daughters?” 
I really, really don’t want to do so. They already have their own stuff to deal with. I only ask because I suspect my younger daughter, at least, may have an idea of what went on. I imagine this may have lessened her opinion of me (not that it happened but that I let her mother get away with it). I would only do so if there would be some benefit to her. I think not, but am open to opinions.

Thanks for reading. I wish you all well.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Such a sad story. I hope it helps you to write it out. What you're asking about is a personal choice. All I can tell you is what I would do.

First, I don't know how you've been able to go all this time without telling her. But, you've reached out to TAM to get this off your chest; so why not take it another step. Tell her.

I'm certainly not a counselor, but my guess is that if you went to one, he/she would suggest that you write her a letter to tell her what you knew - to get a sense of closure, to release those demons. If you do forgive her, include that in the letter. If you don't; let her know that as well.

This has to be about you, and what's best for your psychological well being. But, I'll be willing to lay odds, that in the long run, it will help you to tell her. This is not about vindictiveness, it's about doing what's best for you.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Reach her. Tell her. How impacted you being used that way for so long not knowing you were in the matrix. How it changed you forever.


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

You know, it did feel good to get that out. I'm not sure how I managed to keep it bottled up this long either. "Not well" is the short answer I guess. 

Like many guys here I read MMSLP and it was a real eye openner. Not the answer to everything but some really good stuff. Originally I could see how I completely Beta'd up in that marriage. She was looking for the Alpha *holes, etc. But, you know what? After getting that all out I think I've realized that what I did or didn't made no difference at all. She was a serial cheater. Period. All I could do is the best I could for my daughters and I did that.

On the other hand, I will be using MMSLP in my current relationship

What you're all saying about telling her is making sense too. Probably should talk to a consellor about this. Not going to be easy...

Thanks for the feedback


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## ItLastsForever (Mar 8, 2013)

GJfromCAN said:


> You know, it did feel good to get that out. I'm not sure how I managed to keep it bottled up this long either. "Not well" is the short answer I guess.
> 
> Like many guys here I read MMSLP and it was a real eye openner. Not the answer to everything but some really good stuff. Originally I could see how I completely Beta'd up in that marriage. She was looking for the Alpha *holes, etc. But, you know what? After getting that all out I think I've realized that what I did or didn't made no difference at all. She was a serial cheater. Period. All I could do is the best I could for my daughters and I did that.
> 
> ...


I would take MMSL with a grain of salt as good info about attraction in general. But in a relationship.....I just hope your experience has taught you that being honorable and having dignity are worth more than anything else. 

IMHO. if your spouse cheated, its not because you were too "beta"....its because your spouse had a huge sense of entitlement and a tiny respect for your vows. 

Don't let old refuse trip you up. You have several options, really. Here are a couple....

1. Send them to her in the mail - in a brown envelope (!) with a note that says, "ooopsie! I think you forgot these" 

2. Buy a nice bottle of brandy and light a fire. Toss the offensive material into the flames, take a drink and feel deep gratitude that this is no longer your life.

3. Wallow in the pain and waste more of your precious and wondrous life.

Let us know what you decide!

Please take care of yourself.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Reach her. Tell her. How impacted you being used that way for so long not knowing you were in the matrix. How it changed you forever.


He needn't waste the time. She will care no more now than she cared while she was exposing him to VD.
The ONLY way she might feign caring would be if she's fallen on hard times and need to milk him for more money.
Been there.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your story. I love your writing style!  I could say a lot of things, but right now I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for a man who raises another mans' biological children and loves them as if they were his own flesh and blood. That says so much about the depth of your character.

Thank you for that.


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## ItLastsForever (Mar 8, 2013)

*There I was sitting alone in the crummy basement. Surrounded by all her sh!t. Realizing that the last 10 years of my life had been a lie. Everything I had done for her. A lie. Everything we had gone through. A lie. What I had offered was meaningless to her.*

This broke my heart. This is exactly how I feel too. DONT discuss with daughters, no matter how grown. I did and regret it. Tell them you are dealing with it OK if they ask, and then ask them about THEIR life! 

Talk it out here and you won't have to pull any punches.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

hookares said:


> He needn't waste the time. She will care no more now than she cared while she was exposing him to VD.
> The ONLY way she might feign caring would be if she's fallen on hard times and need to milk him for more money.
> Been there.


I would't expect any kind of response. The letter would be for him. As a matter of fact I'd reject her if she dared to reach back.
If he's fine just getting it out here I'm glad for it.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Have you gotten tested for STD's?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Children should never be put in the middle of these things.

As to her, do what your gut tells you to do.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd post her on cheaterville.com and. Send her the link.

Keeping it to yourself and letting a horrible cheater think she pulled it over on you is very beta.

Did you keep the box of evidence? I'd send her one of the pics .


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

It's been 10 years. I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of letting her know you know she did it. She's probably some place regretting her failure to rub your nose in it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

And you are clearly still hurting after all these years, so you know that doing nothing isn't helpful at all.


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

EI said:


> Thank you for sharing your story. I love your writing style!  I could say a lot of things, but right now I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for a man who raises another mans' biological children and loves them as if they were his own flesh and blood. That says so much about the depth of your character.
> 
> Thank you for that.


Thank you for your kind words EI.

You hit the nail on the head for me. As much as I regret wasting 10 years of my life in that relationship, I have never regretted the time I have spent with those little girls (young women now actually). One of the best things to happen to me in my life.

Glad you enjoyed my style as well! And that was the short version


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

bryanp said:


> Have you gotten tested for STD's?


This ended 10 years ago, but yes. I was in the clinic within 48 hours. 

Sex was so infrequent in the final few years and she was in and our of the DRs so often she probably had time to get herself cleaned up between "sessions".

FUN FACT: She would get cold sores periodically. I managed to avoid catching them for 10 years of marriage. When did I get my first one? Two weeks after I moved out!


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I should clarify that I didn't actually KEEP the pictures. Golly, that would have been stealing and a terrible betrayal of trust. Imagine the work she would have had to do to replace them.

The fact that I clearly haven't taken the right steps to get this out of my system is exactly why I'm here. Getting it out in writing has felt even better than I thought it would. It also has made it clear to me that I should look for some IC. I've gone in the past but never felt it helped. Of course, not giving out the full story may have had a little something to so with it. 

I'll give the letter to the ex more thought and discuss in IC. I'd have to be certain of what I would want to gain from it. At the moment, any renewed contact is not something I would look on as as a benefit.

One final question, and I'm a little suprised this didn't occur to me earlier...

I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend, on and off for 8 years. We both have issues: mostly me withdrawing due to a lack of trust (projecting) and her having trouble with conflict. We've broken up and gotten back together repeatedly (it's become a bit of a joke with our friends and family) but we moved in together 2.5 years ago and things have been slowly getting better. We even made the ultimate commitment of adopting cats together.

Given this has had such an impact on me, do you think I should discuss it with her? I think I already know the answer but I'd like to know if any of you forsee a downside?

Thanks again. My thoughts are with you all.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Many counselors encourage writing "therapeutic letters". Thet are never to be sent. Sometimes they suggest to burn them afterwards, as a simbol.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If she is suffering from chronic depression, it might make her more depressed...or do nothing.

In either case, he damages someone else or he does nothing.

Venting here is good. Writing symbolic letters is good.

What I would have done (hindsight) is leave the pictures out when I left for her to see that I had seen them.

Too late for that.

At this point, since he doesn't care and he wants to heal and thinks it might help HIM, sure. Tell her in an offhand way "oh...by the way. I see you had some group (grope?) photos with the Hendersons when I wasn't around."

But he will need to initiate contract just to tell her this. Does he want her trying to 'make it right', poison the girls against him, or starting to yell back at him for his inadequacies? 

Seems like little gain for too much downside.


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

I thought I should just close the loop on the story here.

I did speak to my gf about what had happened with my exW. I could see it was obviously the right thing to do, moments after I had made the post.

Not suprisingly, it went very well. She was so happy that I felt I could confide something so painfull to her and realised herself that it explained so much of what has gone on between us. More than a few tears were shed (all hers, going to have to work on that). Things have been great between us since then.

She also mentioned the idea of writing the letter (to the ex) and not sending it. 

Thanks to those of you who have read my story and to those who have provided feedback.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

GJfromCAN said:


> You know, it did feel good to get that out. I'm not sure how I managed to keep it bottled up this long either. "Not well" is the short answer I guess.
> 
> Like many guys here I read MMSLP and it was a real eye openner. Not the answer to everything but some really good stuff. Originally I could see how I completely Beta'd up in that marriage. She was looking for the Alpha *holes, etc. But, you know what? After getting that all out I think I've realized that what I did or didn't made no difference at all. She was a serial cheater. Period. All I could do is the best I could for my daughters and I did that.
> 
> ...


Man I can't believe you could walk away. (not trying to be an jerk. I would have told the kids to go outside and you and your wife needed to talk) Honestly at this point you need to talk to this woman she needs to know how bad she hurt you. It is too late to salvage that relationship. I don't believe this woman would want you to suffer the way you do. You need to get out of this self inflicted purgatory and be honest. You need to tell your daughters that you know why your marriage failed and it really was not your fault. Now all that anger and rage must be bottled up inside. I know how it feels I did a weeks worth of work breaking up old concrete in two days because what i went through. And my issues were nothing compared to yours. 
You can recover, you can let go, and you deserve to be heard by the woman who wasted ten years of your life. 
It is all up to you now. ARe you going to continue to be the Mr Nice Guy or are you going to break the cycle and let yourself get out from under this rock. Please make the choice that is right for your future. Good luck.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

That is one hell of a story, and what else can I say? I also can't believe you never mentioned anything to her at the time. I would be livid about someone withholding sex from me, while having threesomes with the neighbors.

Personally, I would send her a letter. Well, actually, who sends letters anymore? It is 2013, so I would probably send her a message on facebook instead, but whatever, it's all the same. 

You have nothing to lose, and it could help. Who knows, if she gave you a heartfelt apology, it might give you some closure.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

My god, you need to get a punching bag with her face on it. 

That is such a sick abuse of another person. I will drink a beer to that one. 

Jesus...


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