# I WANT the ILYBINILWY speech. At least she'd be discussing it with me.



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry this is long. I've been on this and other forums for a long time tip-toeing around my problem. But I need to try to fix it now. I don't think there is any way to, but I need to try one last time. And as lengthy as it is, it's still just another "my wife doesn't love me any more" sob story. 

I'm miserable and I won’t divorce over it. I won't punish the rest of my family just because I'm not happy. I'm not going to divorce her after the kids are grown and gone either. I'm not going to further split my time with my kids and grandkids from the time that will already be split with the in-laws. When they're gone I can spend less time around her, that will help. But for now, I'm going to buck up and put on strong face. I'm still a family man. I still laugh with them. Play with them. Be all of their best friends. Even hers. But I know that as long as I'm with her I'll never again be held by a woman who loves me. I'll never again be kissed by a woman who desires my kisses. And I'll never again be missed by a woman who longs for me to be by her side. And hasn't for 15 or more years. 

I can live my days. I've got a job that keeps me busy. A household to run. Kids to be with. But after dinner, she settles down in front of the TV to watch shows that are chosen with an understanding that I'm not watching them with her. Flaunting the fact that she knows I have a problem with her choosing crap TV over me. I go to bed (with the help of over-the-counter sleeping pills) knowing she will come to bed long after me, turn her back with barely a good night and go to sleep. Knowing full well how I suffer as I lay 2 feet from the woman I long for more than any other, and have her be 100 miles away. And not even care. My nights are hard. VERY hard. That's why I'm here now. Asking you all for help. I can play her "let's pretend there's no problem" from 7AM - 10PM or later. But I'll eventually have to lay down beside her and be ignored. And I can't do it any more.

Three and a half years ago I was talking with a childhood, friend telling him that I was the luckiest man alive to have the wife I had and the relationship with her that I had. It was special. Sure, the sex wasn't great. Totally nonexistent for the preceding three years and awkward for a few before that. So, she isn't a sexual person. Hardly unusual in a wife, right? I was even beginning to question her sexual orientation. But I had everything else. She loved me. Liked me as a friend. We got along great. Our kids were great and our family was happy. Plus, I've been pretty good at taking care of myself sexually since I was young. If there was one thing I had to live with my life missing, that was acceptable. I was happy.

But that summer I had a couple of triggers hit me at the same time that led to the three year downward spiral I have been on since. One I knew about. It was some old questionable behavior on her part that was never addressed adequately. Swept under the rug. And like any wound that isn’t set correctly, it festered and would act up every few years. Bother me for a few weeks then go away for a couple of years until it would flair up again. 

I was in one of these regular funks on that issue when the second "trigger" hit me like a ton of bricks, and the two combined to lead me here. A simple comment made to her by her girlfriend at a neighborhood BBQ. Right in front of me. I didn’t even accidently overhear it. It was seemingly innocent enough. But in that one awful instance I realized that the problem wasn't that my wife didn't find men in general sexually unattractive, she just wasn't into ME. It made me realize that my wife may NEVER have been attracted to me. And in the subsequent years of dealing with it (ALL WRONG, I might add) I realized she may never have loved me. And IF there was ever a chance to fix it, I destroyed that with two years of begging, crying, accusing, and a host of other "don't do's".

As long as I play along, my wife will talk to me. Laugh with me. Pretend that she loves me. Blow me on command. But she will never love me again. They rarely come back under circumstances that are more favorable to rekindled happiness. But this is not good. We can't talk about anything. ANYTHING. She not only shows no attempts to help make things better but deliberately does things to make it obvious she doesn't care. It's over. Trust me. 

I don't have to pretend to love her. Just let her do what she wants to do (which is, unfortunately, not much) unless she HAS TO do something else (put up a happy front in front of the kids, let me screw her). I'd keep faking it like this forever: I go out when I want and go wherever I want (I've implemented a "mostly" 180), I have unlimited sex in which I DON"T HAVE TO PLEASE HER AT ALL! (It's all for me, she doesn't like it anyway, so why not finish up quick?) It may be little rapey/sex-slave ish knowing she'd rather not be there at that particular moment, but It's consensual (I guess). But I can't go to bed. It's just too hard. EVERY NIGHT, a reminder that the love that I THOUGH was so special was a lie for so long.

After reading this one last time, I realize I never even asked a question. I just don’t know what to do.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

WHY?????????

Why would you condemn yourself to a life of misery? Your kids will survive a divorce. And what kind of model are you giving them now? 

Why would you want to do this for the next howevermany years?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sounds like a miserable existance. 

And sounds exactly what I would be putting up with if I stayed with my H. Lifes too short. Get out of that hell.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Where is your wife getting her emotional needs met? Sounds like not from you, so where?

And her sexual needs?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I can't do it any more


So what is your next move?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mr.K,

I have a similar story to yours but I'm the wife. Can't post what I want to now (have to go to son's baseball game)but will post when the children go to bed. I got the speech you think you want and it cuts like a knife. I agree with your reasons for staying but let's see if we can come up with some suggestions to helping your marriage. One of the questions I have is asked above by aug. You'll understand why when I post later.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

ok I'm confused.... I have seen a MrK on here and a MrsK.... Not sure if MrsK is MrKs wife but Mrsk's posts about her husband have been about how she loves him and such... umm has no one else wondered if MrK and MrsK are H&W? OP?? Does your wife come on these boards? Have you two ever TALKED about your feelings? Communicated with one another?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MrK said:


> My nights are hard. VERY hard. That's why I'm here now. Asking you all for help. I can play her "let's pretend there's no problem" from 7AM - 10PM or later. But I'll eventually have to lay down beside her and be ignored. And I can't do it any more.
> 
> But that summer I had a couple of triggers hit me at the same time that led to the three year downward spiral I have been on since. One I knew about. It was some old questionable behavior on her part that was never addressed adequately. Swept under the rug. And like any wound that isn’t set correctly, it festered and would act up every few years. Bother me for a few weeks then go away for a couple of years until it would flair up again.
> 
> ...


MrK,

I'm not real sure how much of this is your wife's behavior and how much is your reaction to your wife's behaviors. It's all kind of blurred together but it looks a lot to me like a lot of misinterpretation of a lot of common behavior.

On your side of things, you can stop letting whatever she does or doesn't do bother you. Just let it all go. Don't judge, don't analyze and don't over think.

On her side of the picture, her behavior is driven by her self image. The better she feels about herself, the better she will feel about you. Although you can't make her feel anything or be anything she doesn't want, you are still in a really good position to influence her.

I think a lot of people live like you. But if you don't like it, do something about it.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

The title of this thread hit me like a ton of bricks. For my part, I agree. At least we'd have a friggin' dialogue, hopefully different from the occasional "conversations" we have where I voice my concerns and she explains to me why I'm wrong. I don't know if my marriage will last, but I've decided to keep the family together.

But here's the difference: my situation is tolerable. My wife doesn't make me miserable, and as long as we keep things superficial, things are fairly pleasant. If I was in a situation like you describe, I can say with confidence that I'd call it quits. I nearly did; I'm nearly 50 and life is short. But I weighed the pros and cons and decided to stay. If I were you, I'd weigh those pros and cons again.

I ask this because I struggled with this for months: are you afraid? Whether it be of the uncertainties of divorce, your wife, your kids' future, or what will become of you? It took me a while to lose my fear. My life and marriage became alot more palatable after I did. I knew I'd be okay, that whatever happened, I could handle it. It may suck, but it was doable. You can handle this, my friend, regardless of what happens.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

If you are lucky....she will leave you. BTDT.

If your kids were older and married, and came to YOU with this problem.... what would you advise them to do?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mr. K,
I got that speech in December 2011. My husband and I have been married 14 years. We owned a business for 13 of them. Over the years working together became toxic. He started to verbally abuse me and I responded with verbal abuse back. We started disconnecting from each other emotionally. I started wanting less and less sex. I didn't realize it at the time but it was from me not getting my emotional needs met. The less sex we had the further he emotionally went.

When I got the speech it was because at that time our business had closed (economy), our house had just been sold, we had just moved out of the city and we were staring our bankruptcy process.

I was hoping that this could be a new beginning for us and we could become close again now that the business was closed. The verbal abuse had stopped on both ends. I was trying to force him to communicate with me and then I got the ILYBINILWY. I thought my life had fallen apart because through everything I still loved him.

When I married him in my mind that meant unconditional love. Through thick and thin I will love him.

He didn't want a separation and I did not want to live with someone that doesn't love me. We also have 2 boys age 11 and 13 to consider.

We decided we wanted to work it out. I read a couple of books. The most helpful being His Needs, Her Needs. I was able to see what I was doing wrong and own my part of the problem. He still hasn't read the book but he is responding in a very good way to the changes I've made in myself. He is now much more emotionally supportive to me which I needed. The sex has picked up and is more frequent and better than ever before. Sex has been great for about 5 months now.

We still hit our bumps and when we do I think about the ILYBINILWY. Every time I do it feels like a knife in my stomach. I wish I never heard those words. I hope you never hear them. All of this was caused by an emotional distance caused by bad communication.

So try to find a way to fix your communication to fix your emotional distance. Where does your wife get her emotional support from?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, wanted to add. Neither of us had an affair. Not an EA or PA. I don't know if he checked on me but I checked on him.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Hopefull363 said:


> We still hit our bumps and when we do I think about the ILYBINILWY. Every time I do it feels like a knife in my stomach. I wish I never heard those words. I hope you never hear them. All of this was caused by an emotional distance caused by bad communication.
> 
> So try to find a way to fix your communication to fix your emotional distance. Where does your wife get her emotional support from?


I got that speech myself and the consequences are still reverberating through our marriage. My wife, for her part, now denies she ever said it. This is a perfect example of "be careful what you ask for"


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm sorry you're going through this MrK. Seems as though you've tried everything but she refuses to change.

I know what it's like to endure pain in the name of preserving the young family you built. If this is your decision stay strong and stay sane. There are days where I feel like doing some crazy ish. Don't give in.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Mr k.

Your thread title reeks of martyrdom. And frankly, is the pu$$y way out of the situation. If you want change, then you will have to do it yourself. Even if that means divorce if it comes to that.

Frankly, your attitude is full of self sacrifice, and in conjecture....maybe you think you are being the stronger man and everyone will just fawn over your willingness to endure punishment like you are. Only in the movies does the martyr get reverence. In real life....no one even "cares", so to speak.

You are the only one responsible for your emotional destiny. No one else. That means you are the only one that can put it back on the right path. Whether that means repairing your marriage or eventual divorce is up to you. Waiting for her to give you that speech isnt going to make it any easier. Or better. And frankly, I think it's weak, IMO.

Control your own life. Fix your brokenness. No one will do it for you. Only you can change it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MrK said:


> I don't have to pretend to love her. Just let her do what she wants to do (which is, unfortunately, not much) unless she HAS TO do something else (put up a happy front in front of the kids, let me screw her). I'd keep faking it like this forever: I go out when I want and go wherever I want (I've implemented a "mostly" 180), I have unlimited sex in which I DON"T HAVE TO PLEASE HER AT ALL! (It's all for me, she doesn't like it anyway, so why not finish up quick?) It may be little rapey/sex-slave ish knowing she'd rather not be there at that particular moment, but It's consensual (I guess). But I can't go to bed. It's just too hard. EVERY NIGHT, a reminder that the love that I THOUGH was so special was a lie for so long.
> 
> After reading this one last time, I realize I never even asked a question. I just don’t know what to do.


I have given you advice before, but since you refuse to divorce, it has fallen on deaf ears. So let me nbe blunt:

You are an awful parent. You are teaching your kids that a loveless marriage is the norm and goal. You think that you can put on a happy face while they are around, but they know better. They may not know the hows and whys, but they will note that their parents don't spend time together, only interact with them as part of it, notice the lack of physical contact. They will compare that to other families and see that something is different. 

So your kids will grow up with that as the model of a marriage. That is the ideal that they will seek, the default that will revert back to in their own relationship. All because that is what you decided they should learn. That is definitely something you should be proud of.

So let's soften this a bit. Is that really what you want for your kids? Do you want your son or daughter going through a marriage like this? You do have a martyer complex. Get IC for that, and consider what you are teaching your children. Work on yourself. Have you gone to counseling? Do it for yourself - your marriage is dead, but you still need help in dealing with this.

By the way - ever considered that she is just marking time until the kids leave so that she can then divorce you? You aren't the only one that gets to say how long you stay married. Consider your martyrdom when she pulls the plug and you still end up forced to split time with your kids and grandkids.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I am humbled that all of you will take time out of your busy days to read this long post and respond. I'd like to answer some of your questions.



aug said:


> Where is your wife getting her emotional needs met? Sounds like not from you, so where?
> 
> And her sexual needs?


I don't think anywhere. She's ecased herself into a miserable little shell of her own. And before anyone tells me to snoop because she might be cheating (EA or PA), let me just say that I don't care. I've pretty well removed myself from her. 



A Bit Much said:


> So what is your next move?


I don't know. I'll get to why I don't see divorce as an option later. I have a home office. I think the next move is to move there. I just fear that the relief of not having to go to bed 2 feet from her will eventually change to going to bed 30 feet from being just as bad. That move will require a separation of sorts and a discussion with the kids. It will be a big move but I won't be fully breaking up the family right now.



GTdad said:


> ...For my part, I agree. At least we'd have a friggin' dialogue, hopefully *different from the occasional "conversations" we have where I voice my concerns and she explains to me why I'm wrong*. I don't know if my marriage will last, but I've decided to keep the family together.
> 
> But here's the difference: my situation is tolerable. My wife doesn't make me miserable, and as long as we keep things superficial, things are fairly pleasant.


The bold part. That is EXACTLY how my conversations are. She claims nothing is wrong, that it's all in my head, so why doesn't she help me, help US, as opposed to just defending herself all of the time? She does not love me. Of that I have NO DOUBT. She knows there are SERIOUS issues in our marriage, but refuses to discuss them with me. My situation is tolerable too. She lets me go out when I want, to wherever I want. We are pleasant to one another. But she doesn't love me. Isn't that important too? How do I hold someone who doesn't want to be held? How do I kiss someone who doesn't want my kisses? Sure, she'll screw me, blow me on command even. But that get's a little unfulfiling pretty quickly. Even a w.h.o.r.e WANTS to be there to a certain degree. She wants to get paid. My wife would rather suck my **** than talk to me. Isn't that a problem on a certain level?



SunnyT said:


> If your kids were older and married, and came to YOU with this problem.... what would you advise them to do?


Probably what all of you are telling me to do. Leave her. But I'd want to know the specifics first.



Hopefull363 said:


> So try to find a way to fix your communication to fix your emotional distance.


Hopeful. I don't want to lessen the impact of your long, heartfelt response, but there is no way to fix communication if my wife REFUSES to talk to me. I don;t see it happening. And as far as the ILYBINILWY feeling like a knife in the gut, I've already had the knife. I haven't heard the exact words, but a few statements and actions have been the equivalent. At least a knife to the gut would be a quick death. She's killing me with the Chinese water torture. Slow and deliberate. If she would talk, maybe we could fix things. She has made it obvious she has no interest in fixing things.



alphaomega said:


> maybe you think you are being the stronger man and everyone will just fawn over your willingness to endure punishment like you are.
> 
> Control your own life. Fix your brokenness. No one will do it for you. Only you can change it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't care what anyone thinks of my willingness to endure punishment to keep my family together. I don't WANT to endure punishment. That's why I'm here. I want advice on how to live in my situation w/o hurting anyone. If your answer is "It can't be done", then say so and leave me alone.



Tall Average Guy said:


> You are an awful parent. You are teaching your kids that a loveless marriage is the norm and goal.


That is BUL****! Teaching my kids to run from my problems...scratch that, run from my problems while hurting those around me that I love...is better than sticking it out and try to find a solution? Of course, my kids see there are problems. But I wake up with them every day. I eat with them. Play with them. Laugh with them. So I'm not happy. Boo-f.u.c.k.i.n-hoo. It's not the best situation. But how many of you can agree that running is better than staying and fighting always confused the crap out of me.

I chose to stay in my miserable situation instead of quit and I'm RIDICULED for that? PL-EASE!

And yes. I am the one who made a post JUST YESTERDAY about how people who ignore a UNIVERSAL consensus on a solution have their head in the sand. If that's the case, if you ALL agree I should leave just because I'm not happy. Then I'll reconsider. But I believe there is a wealth of opinion that is counter to the "cut bait and run" advice you are giving (and ridiculing me for not taking).

Am I an awful parent? maybe. But sticking around to try to salvage my family doesn't put me in that category.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MrK said:


> That is BUL****! Teaching my kids to run from my problems...scratch that, run from my problems while hurting those around me that I love...is better than sticking it out and try to find a solution? Of course, my kids see there are problems. But I wake up with them every day. I eat with them. Play with them. Laugh with them. So I'm not happy. Boo-f.u.c.k.i.n-hoo. It's not the best situation. But how many of you can agree that running is better than staying and fighting always confused the crap out of me.
> 
> I chose to stay in my miserable situation instead of quit and I'm RIDICULED for that? PL-EASE!
> 
> ...


What are you doing to fix the problems? What is your wife doing? How are your actions salvaging a family? How are they teaching your children about a loving marriage. about a husband and wife loving each other, about how spouses should interact with each other? What type of example of marriage are you providing?

Is your current version of marriage what you want for your children?

_Edit - I will admit to being an @$$hat in my initial post. I won't apologize for it, as I think you do really need to think about *everything *you are teaching you kids. I ssupect that in many ways you are a great father. I do think that in this area, you are falling down on the job. Being a man and a father is not just about absorbing all the pain that comes your way. It is about facing reality and dealing with productively._


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Am I an awful parent? maybe. But sticking around to try to salvage my family doesn't put me in that category.


What you aren't seeing is that without your wifes participation, this 'salvaging' you say you're doing is an exercise in futility.

Beating a dead horse is just about as productive as what you call yourself doing. Get angry with everyone here all you want, but you know the truth of this.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm sorry she won't try and you are correct it does take two to communicate. If you can afford it a separation may wake her up to what she would be losing. She's to comfortable knowing you won't leave so she doesn't have to meet your emotional needs. Notice I said separation not divorce. She doesn't have to know that you aren't willing to divorce. Might want to try a separation with a soft to medium 180. If you do I hope she wakes up.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Thank you all for your opinions. I am not going to leave my family over this. I'll just keep on keeping on. We'll see how it works out. Nobody's dead. Nobody's in danger of dying. I just need to keep it all in perspective, I guess.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MrK said:


> Thank you all for your opinions. I am not going to leave my family over this. I'll just keep on keeping on. We'll see how it works out. Nobody's dead. Nobody's in danger of dying. I just need to keep it all in perspective, I guess.


That's fine. What will you do though when your family leaves you? 

Kids do grow up and move out you know.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> That's fine. What will you do though when your family leaves you?
> 
> Kids do grow up and move out you know.


Or when your wife files for divorce. 

MrK - you act is if you have complete control over whether you stay married. You don't. Nothing stops your wife from filing once the kids leave.

Then where will you be?

Get yourself to individual counseling. Working on yourself and your anger. That is a whole lot of it that you need help with.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

You should go to counseling. I was thinking about your post. You seem to have a lot of resentment. I'm wondering about your wife and how much resentment she has. Something has caused both of you to shut down emotionally. Why not find out what it is and fix it instead of brewing in your resentment soup. You just want to sacrifice yourself instead of getting help. Go to IC and work on yourself first.


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