# Who initiates the love making



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

I would like to know from TAM followers, that when you go to bed, who makes the first move that leads to love making. Is it mostly guys or do the ladies do it to.
I ask this because we are going through some struggles in our relationship, but for 10 years that I can remember I've always made the first move, and then this past year told her that I'm tired of it. I feel that she's only doing it as an obligation. I asked her why dont you make any moves or show the interest. Didnt get a proper response. Since beginning of the year, I've stopped giving her touches, or lil hugs n kisses. Our track record used to be like 4-5 times a week, to 2-3/week, and now pretty much 1 month. 
I've tried few things to keep the romance a live: Toys into the bed, candles, music, buying her lingerie, before our baby I once surprised her by opening the door bare.
Is it just me, or all the stuff we read, see on tv where the lady is seducing the guy is just fantasy?


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Very common. Called responsive desire.
I initiate 99% of the time. That does not mean my wife does not "get into it" it just means she needs a little help getting there. I really don't mind so long as it ends well.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

So, if once a month works for you then wait for her to initiate. If you want more than that and your wife does not have an much greater than average sex drive it's on you. So yeah, whatever you are seeing that is giving you these ideas are a fantasy for the most part.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I would say my husband does it more than me. Because he makes the first move, once I know he is interested, I am right there. Willing to take charge if he indicates this. But, I do make the first move a lot of times. I give him a massage and take it from there. 2x a week or so. 

HOwever, we have a lot of little things going on before that, we touch, hugs, kisses and lots flirting. Most times we just reach for each other. Since, foreplay started two hours ago.

I think by stop doing all those little things as a means to punish your wife, has backfired on you. Maybe, you should start doing them again.


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

In my house, both equally I think.


----------



## kjm (Jan 8, 2011)

For the first 15 years, I initiated or went without. I was frustrated and angry most of the time and she liked to say that my anger kept her from wanting to. We went to counseling and she said as much. The counselor assigned us sex 2X per week, with no excuses- even the day of the week it was going to happen (Sunday mornings and Wednesday evening). The reason was because I like it during the day and she prefers at night. After a few months she reported that I wasn't such an A-hole anymore so it was easy to initiate. Now I'd say it has become 60/40 with her doing most initiation. She turned 40 a few years back and now she seems to need it like I did in my 20's. I'm grateful for the changes and our marriage has never been better. 

Yes- men equate sex with love. Like it or not, most men that I know do. If the wife withholds or acts like it is a chore, it is a painful rejection.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

austinguy31 said:


> I would like to know from TAM followers, that when you go to bed, who makes the first move that leads to love making. Is it mostly guys or do the ladies do it to.
> I ask this because we are going through some struggles in our relationship, but for 10 years that I can remember I've always made the first move, and then this past year told her that I'm tired of it. I feel that she's only doing it as an obligation. I asked her why dont you make any moves or show the interest. Didnt get a proper response. Since beginning of the year, I've stopped giving her touches, or lil hugs n kisses. Our track record used to be like 4-5 times a week, to 2-3/week, and now pretty much 1 month.
> I've tried few things to keep the romance a live: Toys into the bed, candles, music, buying her lingerie, before our baby I once surprised her by opening the door bare.
> Is it just me, or all the stuff we read, see on tv where the lady is seducing the guy is just fantasy?


You should have asked me first....Not asking for sex results in "NO SEX".....Many highly sexual women, my wife being one, are always ready for sex, but almost never initiate it...Get over it or do without....I might add, men who suddenly decide to stop asking for sex, do so because their drive has dropped.....


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Women's sex drive *tends* to be responsive, not spontaneous. Of course there are exceptions, but that is generally the case. Thus, you will have to initiate if you want frequency that is close to what you want.

Does she turn you down if you initiate? If not, don't worry about it; just initiate when you are in the mood. If she does turn you down, then you may have an actual problem.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> You should have asked me first....Not asking for sex results in "NO SEX".....Many highly sexual women, my wife being one, are always ready for sex, but almost never initiate it...Get over it or do without....*I might add, men who suddenly decide to stop asking for sex, do so because their drive has dropped.....*


*
*

I have to disagree with this. When you have a high rejection rate and acceptance is starfish sex then stop asking does not mean your drive has dropped. It just means it feels good when you stop banging your head against the wall!


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

So how often were you getting rejected when you initiated?

How was the quality?

Would she get into or was she a selfish lover?

These are more important questions to answer than why she doesn't initiate. As stated above she may have responsive desire. do some reading on it.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> [/B]
> 
> I have to disagree with this. When you have a high rejection rate and acceptance is starfish sex then stop asking does not mean your drive has dropped. It just means it feels good when you stop banging your head against the wall!


I did not see high rejection rate, or starfish sex in the op....just that she did not initiate....With the wife and I, the only STAR in our sex life was "rock star"...But I still had to initiate....Almost every time....Withholding affection, and not initiating are NOT in "The great big book of better sex"....


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

In my marriage the High Drive partner initiates more often and is shut down more often. This is typical. This higher drive partner just happens to be male. 

For a glimmer of hope let me tell you what happened last weekend. (we only sleep together on weekends) When I put out my lamp she rolled over and cuddled tightly to me. No Sex, just Love. If you are shutting that down, what do you expect her to do?


----------



## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

I believe someone wrote than women are responsive and not initiators and that makes sense. Evolution has made us that way. For 50 years I've imitated at least 95% of the time. Until the day she turns over and knees me in the groan, I'll keep doing it.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

My wife 100% of the time.

I learned decades ago that the sex would always be much better when she was sufficiently motivated to ask for it.


----------



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

Woodchuck said:


> You should have asked me first....Not asking for sex results in "NO SEX".....Many highly sexual women, my wife being one, are always ready for sex, but almost never initiate it...Get over it or do without....I might add, men who suddenly decide to stop asking for sex, do so because their drive has dropped.....


Im 35 (I know age doesnt matter always for ED) but I can still go for multiple X per week, and key thing I want to. But what does it show about the ladies, that if the men dont make the move, and not sex is taken place....can women really go months with out it? Does race/culture make a factor?


----------



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

Always Learning said:


> [/B]
> 
> I have to disagree with this. When you have a high rejection rate and acceptance is starfish sex then stop asking does not mean your drive has dropped. It just means it feels good when you stop banging your head against the wall!


Right, I dont think my drive has stopped, but its not always rejection. But if couples are supposed to be "equal" why does it seem that the men are more of the initiators and have to put up with the rejections. If the men are doing the rejection, then we get blamed for "oh is there someone else", we have E.D, or is it really not a big deal for ladies.


----------



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

Always Learning said:


> So how often were you getting rejected when you initiated?
> 
> How was the quality?
> 
> ...


It wasnt really a matter of being rejected. But like we'll be in bed, and until I make the move, nothing would happen
She's not really selfish, she does what I ask, but thing is I have to ask all the time for this or that. By now she should know what I like (10 yrs) but i find it boring if I have to ask. Would be nice if she changed it up a bit, or would make some requests. 

The quality is mostly nice/ok. Once in a while it would crazy amazing, but then why not do those lil things that make your partner go crazy everytime, why hold out.

But you're right seems like shes the responsive type, but holding out doesnt seem to phase her either.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*With XW#1, it was pretty much left up to me to initiate if I wanted any, and carried with it about a 50/50 success rate, although most of it was the "hurry up and get off" variety!

With my RSXW however, we both made overtures whenever we wanted it!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I often make a first move, but she never accepts. So by default she is the one who makes the first move when we actually have sex. Its always pre-planned. :frown2:




austinguy31 said:


> I would like to know from TAM followers, that when you go to bed, who makes the first move that leads to love making. Is it mostly guys or do the ladies do it to.
> I ask this because we are going through some struggles in our relationship, but for 10 years that I can remember I've always made the first move, and then this past year told her that I'm tired of it. I feel that she's only doing it as an obligation. I asked her why dont you make any moves or show the interest. Didnt get a proper response. Since beginning of the year, I've stopped giving her touches, or lil hugs n kisses. Our track record used to be like 4-5 times a week, to 2-3/week, and now pretty much 1 month.
> I've tried few things to keep the romance a live: Toys into the bed, candles, music, buying her lingerie, before our baby I once surprised her by opening the door bare.
> Is it just me, or all the stuff we read, see on tv where the lady is seducing the guy is just fantasy?


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

He probably initiates 75-80% of the time and that's because he goes to bed later than I do or he's waking up before me to go to work. If he comes to bed when I go to bed then I almost always initiate.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

We have sex pretty much every night, it just happens so I can't say who initiates. If we are having a morning quickie it is mostly me that initiates this, I do it as a good morning, hope you have a great day type of thing.
If it is spontaneous event during the day on the weekend, my guess is that he initiates these times more often.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

intheory said:


> Hey, well at least she had one redeeming quality!:wink2:


*Did I ever get around to mentioning that my RSXW was really quite good about making those very same overtures of hers for sex, more especially with those other men that she knew, who were not her husband?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

austinguy31 said:


> It wasnt really a matter of being rejected. But like we'll be in bed, and until I make the move, nothing would happen
> She's not really selfish, she does what I ask, but thing is I have to ask all the time for this or that. By now she should know what I like (10 yrs) but i find it boring if I have to ask. Would be nice if she changed it up a bit, or would make some requests.
> 
> The quality is mostly nice/ok. Once in a while it would crazy amazing, but then why not do those lil things that make your partner go crazy everytime, why hold out.
> ...


Maybe try changing your "asking" up a bit.
Send her dirty texts asking her what she would like you to do to her
Start making out with her in he kitchen, rubbing her and then just smile and go back to what you were doing before, etc..

Start foreplay _way _before you get into the bedroom and by the time you are there, you don't just have to lay there and ask. 

She might become more open as well because she's thinking more about sex during the day and before the bedroom.


----------



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Maybe try changing your "asking" up a bit.
> Send her dirty texts asking her what she would like you to do to her
> Start making out with her in he kitchen, rubbing her and then just smile and go back to what you were doing before, etc..
> 
> ...


I'm so glad you posted. When were living in separate cities (because of work only, relationship was fine - not broken) I would send her sexts, and say some dirty, flirty things. No reaction from her. I would ask her to send a dirty pic, and she would be like "I cant theres people here." I'm like do they take showers with you to, how hard is for someone to take a quick selfie for their partner 100s of miles away. Even now, we're living together and she'd text me bout a simple question when im at work, and I would try being lil dirty, nothing back. I used to be all touchy: squeeze top/bottom or hugs/kisses. But get mostly rejections. So its been months since I've stopped that (was hard) but had to control myself.

I think I asked this earlier, but could culture play a part? It seems sex is like the last thing on her mind always. She's from India, I am as well but been in US since 3 yrs old so practically raised here. She's been here for bout 10 yrs now. She can get wild when we're doing it, but seems we're doing it less n less each week/month, and I just find it pretty selfish of ladies who are only responsive. If guys are making the moves 75-90% of the time, I find that pretty sad. Now wheres the equality gone?


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

austinguy31 said:


> I'm so glad you posted. When were living in separate cities (because of work only, relationship was fine - not broken) I would send her sexts, and say some dirty, flirty things. No reaction from her. I would ask her to send a dirty pic, and she would be like "I cant theres people here." I'm like do they take showers with you to, how hard is for someone to take a quick selfie for their partner 100s of miles away. Even now, we're living together and she'd text me bout a simple question when im at work, and I would try being lil dirty, nothing back. I used to be all touchy: squeeze top/bottom or hugs/kisses. But get mostly rejections. So its been months since I've stopped that (was hard) but had to control myself.
> 
> I think I asked this earlier, but could culture play a part? It seems sex is like the last thing on her mind always. She's from India, I am as well but been in US since 3 yrs old so practically raised here. She's been here for bout 10 yrs now. She can get wild when we're doing it, but seems we're doing it less n less each week/month, and I just find it pretty selfish of ladies who are only responsive. If guys are making the moves 75-90% of the time, I find that pretty sad. Now wheres the equality gone?


News flash: men and women are not the same.
Equality under the law is different from equality in every aspect.
In particular, men *generally *have a higher sex drive than women, in the sense that they will be more motivated to have sex in *most *cases.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

From what I've read and researched, many women experience responsive desire almost exclusively, unless they are strongly motivated to initiate (such as when trying to get pregnant). Of course, there are many women who do experience spontaneous desire and initiate - but perhaps they are in the minority? My ex only seemed to have responsive desire (except when she wanted to get pregnant) - the rest of the time her response was usually "NO" unfortunately. Not the response I hoped for, of course. Cultural and social standards undoubtedly influence response, and can be very difficult to overcome when they're strong.

I do think desire can sometimes be improved - and response rate increased - by starting flirting and light foreplay hours beforehand. However, if your relationship has issues, it probably won't help much if at all. I think you're going to have to always be the initiator, austinguy - or you'll likely go long periods without sex (and I think you've seen this). It's not too great a burden to initiate, I think, if the relationship is good and the sex is also good. If they're not, then you can probably end it and find someone who more closely matches your desires.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Holland said:


> We have sex pretty much every night, it just happens so I can't say who initiates. If we are having a morning quickie it is mostly me that initiates this, I do it as a good morning, hope you have a great day type of thing.
> 
> If it is spontaneous event during the day on the weekend, my guess is that he initiates these times more often.


Same here. Sex almost every night or the next morning... and then again that night! 

We both initiate but if I'm being totally honest, he does it more... probably 60/40. But I can't recall the last time either of us said no...(ok, yes I can... last month when we both had intestinal illness )

But beyond that, we are both very generous and eager/willing participants. He is just a little more demonstrative than I am making his needs known. Hence, why he initiates more .


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

technovelist said:


> News flash: men and women are not the same.
> Equality under the law is different from equality in every aspect.
> In particular, men *generally *have a higher sex drive than women, in the sense that they will be more motivated to have sex in *most *cases.


Nice editing app you've got there that adds qualifiers and bolds them. Seems like it might be working and you're getting less "not all men/women" comments. Where do I get one?


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Nice editing app you've got there that adds qualifiers and bolds them. Seems like it might be working and you're getting less "not all men/women" comments. Where do I get one?


Sorry, I'm doing it manually.
But you have given me an idea for an app... >


----------



## Darwin17 (Sep 29, 2015)

I initiate 90% of the time and am fine with that. If I did not then the frequency takes a dive and it is not because my wife doesn't find me attractive. You have to be the man and take charge of the situation and just direct what you want and how you want it. Obviously this is how it has to be as your sessions dropped by over 90%. Women in general (not everyone!) are not ever going to be the initiator in a long term relationship. You will want it more than she does but she will respond to your wants and need so quit worrying about it and just take command.


----------



## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

I have to say that at my house,I have to initiate, or I don't get laid.
That being said,our frequency has been 1-3 per month,since 2010, before that it was 1-2 a week,my wife of 42 years has informed me in the last month or two than sex is an OBLIGATION. 
Since 1 Jan 2015 We have had sex/Made love 17 times,this is an improvement over the last 4 years. if you do the math,that is still less than 2x per month and unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
This is part of the reason I think my wife is up to something. 
​But that is another thread:frown2:


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok. More info is always helpful. Start a new thread.

In the meantime. Wake her a$$ up at night. Tell her, SHOW HER, you want to bang her, in no uncertain terms.

Oftentimes my SO wakes me up after we are already asleep. He says, "Baby, I need you now."

That's usually all she wrote.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok. More info is always helpful. Start a new thread.
> 
> In the meantime. Wake her a$$ up at night. Tell her, SHOW HER, you want to bang her, in no uncertain terms.
> 
> ...


You young, recently married, self-employed people crack me up.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Cletus said:


> You young, recently married, self-employed people crack me up.


Not young (50 years old), not recently married (divorced almost 5 years ago after 20 years of marriage), but YES -- self employed!


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

intheory said:


> I think haac is 50 :smile2:


Spot on, IT... turned 50 on August 1st!!


----------



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> From what I've read and researched, many women experience responsive desire almost exclusively, unless they are strongly motivated to initiate (such as when trying to get pregnant). Of course, there are many women who do experience spontaneous desire and initiate - but perhaps they are in the minority? My ex only seemed to have responsive desire (except when she wanted to get pregnant) - the rest of the time her response was usually "NO" unfortunately. Not the response I hoped for, of course. Cultural and social standards undoubtedly influence response, and can be very difficult to overcome when they're strong.
> 
> I do think desire can sometimes be improved - and response rate increased - by starting flirting and light foreplay hours beforehand. However, if your relationship has issues, it probably won't help much if at all. I think you're going to have to always be the initiator, austinguy - or you'll likely go long periods without sex (and I think you've seen this). It's not too great a burden to initiate, I think, if the relationship is good and the sex is also good. If they're not, then you can probably end it and find someone who more closely matches your desires.


Thanks MBH, we are going through some struggles. And like you said, I'm sure it plays a part in this. I dont mind the initiating, but would like it to come from her as well. And guess just wanted to see what others go through.


----------



## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

I have found that if I don't make the first move,it won't happen,but she sees. Sex as "an OBLIGATION", lately if I suggest oral or rear entry she rolls her eyes at me and says,gee that just doesn't "Do it for me" all this in the last 5 years along with other anomalies. We are down to less of than 2x per month.since 1 Jan we have had sex 17 times,do the math less than 2x per month.I'm getting angry enough room try it my way for awhile,since it seems to
be my responsibility, 
Deguello


----------



## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

Not sure how much it varies, but do men generally like to 'make the conquest', as it were? I think it's a boost to a mans ego to initiate and be successful (if it's an enthusiastic response). Make him feel like a stud?  And loved.

My H actually seems to get turned off if I initiate, which is rather irritating. He's always been like this. I normally only initiate when I'm ovulating... It can drive me crazy when my hormones are raging, and if I'm coming on strong - he just loses interest... the few times I'm clawing the walls for it! :banghead: 

So I don't actually know HOW to seduce him. Because even if I do lingerie or can physically get him going, his heart isn't in it if I've initiated! The more aggressively (i.e. passionately) I come on to him, the less he wants it. Maybe initiation is seen by him as sexually aggressive, and masculine. As he sees himself as the masculine part, perhaps me initiating emasculates him on some level? *sigh* I don't know. 

I can however insinuate receptiveness, and wait for him to make the move. That's about as initiatory as I can get. It's a submissive way to initiate, so I guess that's the way his mind works.

However - he really likes/needs me to initiate non sexual touching and affection, which I have to make an effort to remember as it's not my love language.


----------



## Ihateusernames (Oct 8, 2015)

Hm... I've been thinking about this. 
It seems like I'm the one initiating lately. He's mega tired from work, and I know that he's a way happier guy if I get things going and we do adult things. Our schedule is far crazier, as well. 

I would really like it if he would initiate more. I think he's a little lost lately. Tired, wants to and is very willing, worried he'll get shot down (period) (which is fine by him, not so much me) or that the kids will interrupt (three kids, one w DS who sometimes has come downstairs looking for us - it's better if we don't tell her where we are and let her watch Big Time Rush)(which the cougar in me doesn't mind a little James Maslow....). 

I digress. 

Yeah. Me. I'd love to get him to kick it up, I just need to get him back on track, considering he's the one who has the higher drive. 
He likes the control taken from him, which I can and actually do, but it would be great for him to take it back.... :/


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Idun said:


> Not sure how much it varies, but do men generally like to 'make the conquest', as it were? I think it's a boost to a mans ego to initiate and be successful (if it's an enthusiastic response). Make him feel like a stud?  And loved.
> 
> My H actually seems to get turned off if I initiate, which is rather irritating. He's always been like this. I normally only initiate when I'm ovulating... It can drive me crazy when my hormones are raging, and if I'm coming on strong - he just loses interest... the few times I'm clawing the walls for it! :banghead:
> 
> ...


How would he react if you ask him to "take you"?


----------



## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

brooklynAnn said:


> How would he react if you ask him to "take you"?


The same as other direct approaches, brush me off in a friendly but slightly awkward way (and even avoid initiating sex with me until the next day!), or comply half heartedly (sometimes not be able to finish, which would never happen otherwise)  The main thing is it doesn't excite him when I initiate, it does the opposite.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Idun said:


> The same as other direct approaches, brush me off in a friendly but slightly awkward way (and even avoid initiating sex with me until the next day!), or comply half heartedly (sometimes not be able to finish, which would never happen otherwise)  The main thing is it doesn't excite him when I initiate, it does the opposite.


Then you will have to go with the indirect route. What if you "accidentally" bent over so that he could see you weren't wearing panties?


----------



## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

Indirect approach is what I've settled with!


----------



## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> :grin2: Idun, my husband is the same way and yes, it is frustrating when I'm climbing up the walls and he's all floppy and looks embarrassed.
> 
> Is your husband willing to let you inside his head? For mine, it has nothing to do with emasculation or the thrill of the chase but performance anxiety and expectations being far too high when I initiate. Once I figured that out, I also was able to manufacture a way to seduce my husband without him getting all weird about it.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your reply. I might broach the topic again, but in the past he just denies lol


----------



## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

My husband mostly did. He didn't understand that how you treat your wife outside the bedroom depends on what happens inside it. I rarely initiated it due to feelings of hatred and worthlessness from his side.


----------

