# ASPD and relationships



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been wondering lately, have you ever heard or met anyone in a successful long-term committed relationship where one or even both have ASPD or "Anti-social personality disorder/sociopathy"? Disregard the low functioning sociopaths, I have no interest in them. I'm talking about the high functioning sociopaths that blend, function, and contribute to society.

So far all I found were claims; one where the non-sociopathic partner was smart enough to handle her sociopathic husband's manipulative nature. Another where the sociopathic husband was in an open relationship with his wife to ensure he was never bored. One claimed to be married to another sociopath, where they simply clicked.

'Tis a curious thing. I want to know if it is even possible.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sociopath World: Dating other sociopaths

Anyway found this post:


> From a reader asking if it is a good idea for sociopaths to date other sociopaths:
> 
> My reasons for thinking we're a perfect match:
> 
> ...


So... is it possible?

 No one has a clue?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Sociopath World: Dating other sociopaths
> 
> Anyway found this post:
> 
> ...


She sounds like a nightmare!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

To each, there is at least one.
In a world of 6.5 billion, those 'ones' are plentiful.

On ASD. 
Putting this syndrome on a sliding scale [we should], there are so many combinations, variables here. Hear?

How many cold calculating ice cubes do you know?
I know plenty.

And other personality types mask, color, merge with ASD. 
A complex thing, our brain derived person...ality.

And then there are brain injuries, brain disease, dis-ease!, traumas, brain/drug injury, aging.

Men claiming Martian roots.

And then there is the violence epidemic seen Worldwide....
How does that calculate into brain structure, formation, deviation from norms?

Or are the ugly, seemingly norms; well, are they just too damn painful to contemplate?
Or, worse, to admit.

As a Martian, I can relate. But that is as far as my norm takes me.
As of yet...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm looking for a success story, but there seems to be none lol


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm looking for a success story, but there seems to be none lol


Pretty sure there aren't many successful relationships with ASPD persons.

All PD's are difficult to be in a relationship with, whether with another PD person or a non PD person. ASPD in particular are going to be some of the most difficult to be in a relationship with.

That thing you copied written by an ASPD sounds like a horrible, manipulative person who has no empathy (pretty much the definition of ASPD). Being that you are also ASPD, I don't suppose you see what a non-PD person sees when reading it. But for myself, I felt horrified at that copied text and wanted to cry for the people the author dupes into having a relationship with her. Terrifying.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Pretty sure there aren't many successful relationships with ASPD persons.
> 
> All PD's are difficult to be in a relationship with, whether with another PD person or a non PD person. ASPD in particular are going to be some of the most difficult to be in a relationship with.
> 
> That thing you copied written by an ASPD sounds like a horrible, manipulative person who has no empathy (pretty much the definition of ASPD). Being that you are also ASPD, I don't suppose you see what a non-PD person sees when reading it. But for myself, I felt horrified at that copied text and wanted to cry for the people the author dupes into having a relationship with her. Terrifying.


That's the thing, when a person who doesn't have ASPD ends up with someone with ASPD, it clashes. People get hurt... But 2 ASPDs?

Admittedly, although this woman sounds terrifying to 'normal' folk, she sounds like a dream for me. No more cringeworthy ILUs, no more trying to be someone I'm not, intellectually stimulated and challenged, and complete understanding of each others ways. Guess the saying is true: "One man's trash is another man's treasure". I've been trying to change, but it's impossible, I only recently come to accept what I am. But I am left with nothing but short-term FWBs with no connection. I wonder if seeking out another ASPD, is the road I should take.

Yet I wonder about the rarity. Even though I am ASPD, I have a code of ethics (many functional sociopaths have it too) enforced by strength of will, not by fragile emotions. It's difficult to determine if the code would match with other sociopaths.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure there aren't many successful relationships with ASPD persons.
> ...


So you say you can't find a connection with a non, but the ASPD author sounds like a dream partner. Yet what she is saying is that she is incapable of a real connection.

So then you don't actually want any connection, you just want a partner who is like you and understands you but can't truly connect with you or anyone?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> So you say you can't find a connection with a non, but the ASPD author sounds like a dream partner. Yet what she is saying is that she is incapable of a real connection.
> 
> So then you don't actually want any connection, you just want a partner who is like you and understands you but can't truly connect with you or anyone?


Yes.

For me the connection I'm thinking of isn't what 'normal' people would think of. 

For me it seems even for a woman to love me, a good woman, like my recent ex, or even ex-wife... it simply wasn't enough. They did not have my condition. Ex-wife suffered the most in my game, ex-GF we are still friends but the connection is fake along with the others, she is to be my last victim.

In the past I remember one woman quite clearly, she was also a sociopath. However she was less functional, prone to violence and disregard of the consequences. I understand that quite well, knowing how many risks I took when I was younger but I did only what I had to do to survive. Still, she was functional enough to share some but not all codes of ethics. There was a connection, even if it's not love.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I want lust rather than love, seduction rather than affection, understanding rather than conflict, independence rather than interdependence. I get bored, with ex-wife she wanted sex multiple times a day and I hated it, I wanted to play. I wanted the game. I wanted the tease. She wanted the fix. She wanted to feel loved, I wanted to be entertained.

I AM a nightmare. But... maybe if I find another nightmare...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I want lust rather than love, seduction rather than affection, understanding rather than conflict, independence rather than interdependence. I get bored, with ex-wife she wanted sex multiple times a day and I hated it, I wanted to play. I wanted the game. I wanted the tease. She wanted the fix. She wanted to feel loved, I wanted to be entertained.
> 
> I AM a nightmare. But... maybe if I find another nightmare...


Join forums for people with PD's and put yourself out there, asking if any are local and want to date you.

I would also suggest Fetlife. Usually ASPD'ers are called sadists in that world, and plenty of women are into them. 

I'm glad you don't want to dupe anyone any more or pretend to love when you can't.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Join forums for people with PD's and put yourself out there, asking if any are local and want to date you.
> 
> I would also suggest Fetlife. Usually ASPD'ers are called sadists in that world, and plenty of women are into them.
> 
> I'm glad you don't want to dupe anyone any more or pretend to love when you can't.


Hahaha not sure about asking "oh hey, I'm a sociopath, any local sociopaths want to date me?" :rofl: No way! Bleh! Not to mention the idea of asking for a date disgusts me.

I'm more curious if it's even possible, a dual ASPD relationship, first and foremost. Looking for success stories.

As for duping people, previously I was unsure, I knew I had issues, but thought myself functional enough to have a normal relationship. After enough victims only then did I come to accept I can't, but I'm hoping with one closed door, another has opened.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell now I'm curious... when I read posts from sociopaths, like the one posted amongst others, I understand completely, almost like "now you're speaking my language". Hell growing up I had a code, and it seems others who speak english use the EXACT same word to describe their 'morality', absent from societal confines.

From your perspective... is it truly THAT alien? Sometimes I have doubts about my condition and past diagnosis, but if this is the case, then I am truly without a doubt, a sociopath.

Though I'd like to think I'm your friendly neighborhood sociopath!  ... most of the time


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So decided to probe a few sites, and either than the few select posts I pointed out, had a look at the social patterns of each on the forums and chatrooms, and wow, these 'sociopaths' come in all shapes and sizes it seems! No kidding about the 'spectrum', unless they are just trolling. 

As it seems most are low-functioning, childish, retarded, with no code to speak of. A code is imperative to be functional in society. Nothing surprising, fits the pattern already noticed throughout my life. Low traffic on these sites too. Very little discussion about this. Very little community, as is expected.

Looks like the chances of me finding my dream sociopathic partner is akin to me inventing a faster-than-light propulsion system. Possible, but extremely unlikely lol.

Ah well, nice to dream...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Hell now I'm curious... when I read posts from sociopaths, like the one posted amongst others, I understand completely, almost like "now you're speaking my language". Hell growing up I had a code, and it seems others who speak english use the EXACT same word to describe their 'morality', absent from societal confines.
> 
> From your perspective... *is it truly THAT alien*? Sometimes I have doubts about my condition and past diagnosis, but if this is the case, then I am truly without a doubt, a sociopath.
> 
> Though I'd like to think I'm your friendly neighborhood sociopath!  ... most of the time


To the bolded, yes, it is terrifying to me to think that people could deliberately and without empathy play on someone else's emotions. This is why serial killers are usually sociopaths, and also how many of them lure their victims. The lack of empathy means this person could physically and emotionally harm another person with no self control whatsoever. 

See, most of us do not *like* to knowingly harm others. It hurts us to know that another is hurt - - ie: empathy. We need empathy in society and in relationships so that we can try to achieve our own goals but not at the expense of others. This cooperation through empathy is how we build good relationships, families, communities and societies. If none of us had empathy, then we would bash a dude in the skull with a rock any time he had something we wanted to take, and we would step over his body without a second thought.

I know you keep saying that your brand of ASPD is "lite" and that you do have a "code". But I also know from many of the words you've written here and on other posts that you lack normal empathy. You therefore - - because of your "code" - - know that although you don't feel empathy, you need to "stay in line" in order to continue in society. Like in the quote by the other ASPD'r:

"I do manipulate, but I do recognize that if I want to remain in respectable societal standing, I have to play towards the emotions of the people I deal with."


And another particularly disturbing part for me to read was this:

"In my past relationships, I have had to fake what I am not feeling (i.e. pretend to comfort the guy when he’s upset, force myself to do the whole stare-into-each-other’s-eyes thing, convince him that I feel the same way, etc.)"

To think that someone would be putting on an act when they comfort you...to think that they would be staring into your eyes but literally forcing themself to do it...to think that a person you love and thought they loved you too was actually just "convincing" you that they felt that way.


You see...to others who have empathy, this is called being dishonest in a particularly cruel way. And yet, you seem to abhor the idea that a partner would be dishonest with you. Having this type of double standard is common for PD'rs. They feel one way and treat others that way...but they are incredulous if anyone would treat them the same way (ie: dishonesty, in this example).


Again, I am glad you don't want to dupe others anymore, or at least that's not your intention anymore. I do hope you can find a partner who feels the same as you do and that you can both accept that there is no love and no empathy, just sexual connection and excitement. That seems like your best bet.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, yes, it is terrifying to me to think that people could deliberately and without empathy play on someone else's emotions. This is why serial killers are usually sociopaths, and also how many of them lure their victims. The lack of empathy means this person could physically and emotionally harm another person with no self control whatsoever.
> 
> See, most of us do not *like* to knowingly harm others. It hurts us to know that another is hurt - - ie: empathy. We need empathy in society and in relationships so that we can try to achieve our own goals but not at the expense of others. This cooperation through empathy is how we build good relationships, families, communities and societies. If none of us had empathy, then we would bash a dude in the skull with a rock any time he had something we wanted to take, and we would step over his body without a second thought.
> 
> ...


Heh well yeah, how else are sociopaths to function in society without pretending to feel? Myself, I guess I'll terrify you a little more  , unlike them, my empathy is a switch, controlled like a weapon. I knew of this for years, yet a recent study came out with findings that other high-functional sociopaths (and even psychopaths) have a switch just like me. Admittedly, it feels great not to be alone!  But sadly... turns out I'm still sociopathic. 

Sometimes takes a conscious effort however, sometimes I forget I have it off, silly me! It's very useful to blend in as well as understand people you deal with. But I think it works a little differently with me, I don't automatically feel an emotional compulsion to feel sorry for people, rather, I just feel their emotions, signals to be read and to action upon accordingly. Sometimes feeling their sorrow pleases me. Other times, it just fails, and I get called all sorts of things lol. The switch isn't perfect. But when it fails, you are correct, that's where the code comes in. Contingency.

I try not to harm people without cause, long term I believe it serves no benefit to the future of humanity, and that's the core belief that my morals encompass. True, I admit I enjoy harming some people but they are those who I believe aren't contributing to my idea of a better world, for example: *low*-functioning sociopaths such as rapists and pedophiles, as an extreme example. I have my principles but it's enforced by will. I would even argue that my principles are stronger and more solid than the principles of 'normal' people. I don't believe in cheating, and I do try to be honest for example. As you know, many 'normal' people even lack these basic principles let alone the strength to uphold them.

As for my exs, I did not intend to deceive my ex-GF or my ex-wife, I simply had not come to understand what I am. I knew I had issues but I thought I could overcome them and be 'normal'. Unfortunately it seems I'm too far gone, and all the work I've put into myself since I left my criminal youth only made me a functional sociopath, not cured my sociopathy at all. If anything it seems it has made me something that society deems as the most dangerous, a high-functioning sociopath. Though I would argue we aren't all bad, considering high-functioning PSYCHOpaths, already occupy essential professions (Spec Forces, Neurosurgeons, CEOs, etc) where such traits are beneficial.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's very useful to blend in as well as understand people you deal with.


Though you may learn "how people tick" just so that you can observe and exploit what you know about them for your own means, you will never "understand" the people you deal with.

Just as no non-PD person will ever "understand" you.

And though it may be useful to *you* to blend in, it is actually very problematic for *us* in society when people like you blend in. So again, sure, as long as you are only concerned with your own means and ends, then to you it seems like you have this great ability to read and use people. Whereas to the rest of us, this just makes you a danger to us through your dishonesty and lack of empathy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> my empathy is a switch, controlled like a weapon.


And although you think this ability to switch your empathy on and off at your own will or discretion or so that you can use it as a weapon is an asset....to non-PD'rs this is simply a terrifying thing to consider and makes you seem like a monster. Because to most non-PD'rs, only a monster could shut their empathy off to use it as a weapon.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> But I think it works a little differently with me, I don't automatically feel an emotional compulsion to feel sorry for people, rather, I just feel their emotions, signals to be read and to action upon accordingly. Sometimes feeling their sorrow pleases me.


When the sorrow of another pleases you, this is a sure sign that you really shouldn't be in any type of relationship.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh well, if I can't understand 'normal' people, I can't exploit them, and I don't always exploit even though I can. My dishonesty to my exs was not intentional as I mentioned. I understand many can be dangerous, but sociopaths like myself are all shapes and sizes. Is it that bad for us to blend in and contribute to society? Must we all be locked away along with the neurosurgeons and soldiers who use these traits to benefit their community? I sense your fear, and I understand why. But is it really that hard to understand me?

Maybe I should have stayed in the closet >.<


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> And although you think this ability to switch your empathy on and off at your own will or discretion or so that you can use it as a weapon is an asset....to non-PD'rs this is simply a terrifying thing to consider and makes you seem like a monster. Because to most non-PD'rs, only a monster could shut their empathy off to use it as a weapon.


Curious, why is empathy so important? Not to mention from it seems quite unreliable compared to ethics fueled by raw willpower, judging not just by my own observations but observations of 'normal' folk.



Faithful Wife said:


> When the sorrow of another pleases you, this is a sure sign that you really shouldn't be in any type of relationship.


Not with a 'normal' person, agreed. Hence this thread.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Being able to exploit others does not mean that you understand them. It means you see them as objects, not people. And since people are not objects, you obviously do not understand them.

Your question about why empathy is important clearly demonstrates this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm, perhaps you are correct, perhaps my understanding of people is limited, but so far, it seems enough. I blend in and no one has a clue, yet they do not come to harm, unless they do something against my code, which is rare. 

Speaking of which, you mentioned it's disturbing for sociopaths to blend in. What would be your alternative for the sociopaths who have the capacity to be functional?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyway, just thought you might like to read a book by Dr. Kevin Dutton, titled "Wisdom of psychopaths", which may disturb you, but may also provide some insight from the perspective of a 'normal' author. It deals with high-functioning psychopaths and their contributions.

And if you are thinking of a cure or treatment, I'm afraid for many cases, such as mine, it's just too late. The 'normal' me died when my mother kicked me out on the streets and while I was at my most vulnerable she went on to moan and moan while she was fking him next door lol. Looking back, can't believe how emotionally fragile I was, and despite the facts, I can no longer even imagine how I was.

Only way forward is well... forward. To be functional. To adopt principles. To live a life hurting as few as possible. If I'm truly as self-centered as you fear, I would not be asking these questions, examining other options that will not lead to what happened in the past; ex-wife, ex-GF, these were women of quality, earned my utmost trust and respect. I only wish them the very best and if they were ever in need to help I would respond. It is principle, as well as logical, to encourage such quality.

Now I just have to find someone else like me, but with no success stories... guess it'll remain a dream.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> And if you are thinking of a cure or treatment, I'm afraid for many cases, such as mine, it's just too late. The 'normal' me died when my mother kicked me out on the streets and while I was at my most vulnerable she went on to moan and moan while she was fking him next door lol. Looking back, can't believe how emotionally fragile I was, and despite the facts, I can no longer even imagine how I was.


No, I'm quite aware that the trauma most ASPD and many other PD'rs suffered as children means that as adults, they cannot be "cured" or treated in any clinical sense. They can learn to adopt and to mimic non-PD behaviors, and in some cases they can become self aware enough to not harm others, as you have done. But there is no un-doing of a PD.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Sociopath World: Dating other sociopaths
> 
> Anyway found this post:
> 
> ...



I read the article. I think most people are sociopaths on one level or another, depending also who they interact with. Some just pride themselves more thinking that understanding emotions and manipulating them (or trying to) somehow elevated them above others who are ‘gullible’ enough.

I think from the article it’s quite simple: she thinks that if she just doesn’t care or let herself care about anyone she has a relationship with, she can call herself a ‘sociopath’. Maybe she can but she just hasn’t met someone she cared enough for. Maybe she confuses this by thinking that the solution is to meet and date another sociopath...Sociopaths are not some sort of ‘superior’ beings who can switch on/off their emotions or control others: eventually they will meet someone who can see right through their game and just play it better. 
Or they stay alone because no one wants anything to do with them.

I don’t really believe it’s a real thing anyway: as in it’s not really a disability or a diagnosable illness like portrayed in the article. It’s a combination of a personality trait and a choice: anyone has a choice to love someone and forego self interest. Though loving someone can also be a perfectly selfish thing in its own right.
All sounds a like BS to me.

I met women like this self-described sociopath and it was always immediately obvious to me that they weren’t genuine. I never let myself get attached to someone like this instinctively even though I can say that I ‘used’ them to gain their trust or let them think they ‘had’ me.
Does it mean I’m a sociopath when it comes to meeting sociopaths? I don’t think so.

I eventually let myself fall in love with someone I knew would never betray my trust. You can of course never ‘know’ but I stopped playing those mind****ing games when I met my wife - it was not necessary anymore because I knew she was genuine.
I think this sociopath thing (like the self-proclaimed sociopathic woman in the article) is just another attention-seeking fad.
It’s just annoying.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, yes, it is terrifying to me to think that people could deliberately and without empathy play on someone else's emotions. This is why serial killers are usually sociopaths, and also how many of them lure their victims. The lack of empathy means this person could physically and emotionally harm another person with no self control whatsoever.
> 
> See, most of us do not *like* to knowingly harm others. It hurts us to know that another is hurt - - ie: empathy. We need empathy in society and in relationships so that we can try to achieve our own goals but not at the expense of others. This cooperation through empathy is how we build good relationships, families, communities and societies. If none of us had empathy, then we would bash a dude in the skull with a rock any time he had something we wanted to take, and we would step over his body without a second thought.
> 
> ...


All people do this to some extent. Fortunately , the way the world works, most people have a pretty good intuition when something is genuine, and something isn’t.
It’s not so difficult. The difficult part and the real issue is when someone actually GENUINELY FEELS all those things and after some years or life events, these feelings change or disappear or become replaced with other feelings. Then it may appear to an outside observer that you haven’t only ‘duped’ your partner, you also duped yourself. But you haven’t actually done any duping: it’s just life and feelings: they can and do change sometimes. Nothing is eternal.



Faithful Wife said:


> And another particularly disturbing part for me to read was this:
> 
> "In my past relationships, I have had to fake what I am not feeling (i.e. pretend to comfort the guy when he’s upset, force myself to do the whole stare-into-each-other’s-eyes thing, convince him that I feel the same way, etc.)"



I was dating someone like this when I was in my teens. The relationship overlapped slightly with my wife’s relationship who I chose over this girl. I found this girl highly irritated me. Mostly because she thought she was being genuine. She did exactly all these things described: the staring, the (false) promises of eternal love bull****; she played the whole game.
Nothing about her was genuine and I could smell it from a mile away. 
I have no idea where she is now but I kept in touch for a while. I know she has been through a few other messed up relationships. The thing with these types of sociopaths is that they do crave to find someone like them precisely because subconsciously, they know what they do is wrong and they want to be punished. Not because they think they can have a functioning relationship with someone like that - they can’t. If they want a functioning relationship, they need to drop the game and simply treat someone how they would want to be treated. It’s not autism.
Then there are other sociopaths who like talking about it to seek attention because there’s no one or nothing left to exploit anymore.



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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> I read the article. I think most people are sociopaths on one level or another, depending also who they interact with. Some just pride themselves more thinking that understanding emotions and manipulating them (or trying to) somehow elevated them above others who are ‘gullible’ enough.
> 
> I think from the article it’s quite simple: she thinks that if she just doesn’t care or let herself care about anyone she has a relationship with, she can call herself a ‘sociopath’. Maybe she can but she just hasn’t met someone she cared enough for. Maybe she confuses this by thinking that the solution is to meet and date another sociopath...Sociopaths are not some sort of ‘superior’ beings who can switch on/off their emotions or control others: eventually they will meet someone who can see right through their game and just play it better.
> Or they stay alone because no one wants anything to do with them.
> ...


That's the thing, she's saying with two ASPDs, there's no more need to fake it, as there would be an understanding. She has described her experiences based on dating non-PDs, hence I guess why it may seem like a nightmare. She's never tried dating another sociopath, hence her speculation, and it seems there are no success stories regardless. Falling in love unfortunately isn't an ability for those with ASPD. I used to think like you, that it's all BS, that it's all labelling, and perhaps alot of it is BS, but nothing else exists to explain how I've met the best of women, beautiful, loyal, showered with love that I could not accept and reciprocate. Unfortunately, this inability is more real than one might think. As for the poster, I don't think she's is seeking attention or has a sense of superiority. I feel like myself, she's seeking answers, but that's just my opinion.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> That's the thing, she's saying with two ASPDs, there's no more need to fake it, as there would be an understanding. She has described her experiences based on dating non-PDs, hence I guess why it may seem like a nightmare. She's never tried dating another sociopath, hence her speculation, and it seems there are no success stories regardless. Falling in love unfortunately isn't an ability for those with ASPD. I used to think like you, that it's all BS, that it's all labelling, and perhaps alot of it is BS, but nothing else exists to explain how I've met the best of women, beautiful, loyal, showered with love that I could not accept and reciprocate. Unfortunately, this inability is more real than one might think. As for the poster, I don't think she's is seeking attention or has a sense of superiority. I feel like myself, she's seeking answers, but that's just my opinion.



First of all, if someone loves you unconditionally, it doesn’t mean that you are ‘supposed’ to love them back the same: this is true for a PD or an ASPD. You either haven’t met someone you felt interested enough in or your ‘type’ is someone who is ‘easy’. Easy is boring. It was for me anyway. I never called myself a sociopath. I just looked harder to find someone who wasn’t ‘easy’ and was genuine.

I don’t believe sociopathy is something that’s a constant thing: you can act like a ‘sociopath’ with one person (basically be a manipulative ass towards someone) and be perfectly genuine with someone else.
I have been and done both. I concluded sociopathy is just immaturity: we choose what gives us meaning in life. If the meaning is to deceive others for short term gain then so be it. The law of attraction will ensure loneliness after you hurt a couple of people. You can choose to find someone you can love: if you want to call it finding another ‘sociopath’, that’s fine 

I’m convinced if true sociopathy actually exists (big if), that person will not be asking those questions you are asking in the first place: they will perhaps be slightly confused why no one will want to have anything to do with them (I met those too) but that’s about it.
Everyone learns and adapts. Unless they lack in intelligence department or are too stubborn. (Stubbornness is also an intelligence thing I believe or lack of it. And I’m pretty stubborn).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

There are many women who find ‘sociopathic’ guys highly attractive (probably same for men): there’s always that hope to ‘turn them around’ and be The One 
Truth is: there’s a type for everyone: just because one was successful at ‘playing’ someone or a few people, doesn’t really ‘qualify’ them as a sociopath. They most likely just haven’t met their type yet.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> First of all, if someone loves you unconditionally, it doesn’t mean that you are ‘supposed’ to love them back the same: this is true for a PD or an ASPD. You either haven’t met someone you felt interested enough in or your ‘type’ is someone who is ‘easy’. Easy is boring. It was for me anyway. I never called myself a sociopath. I just looked harder to find someone who wasn’t ‘easy’.
> 
> I don’t believe sociopathy is something that’s a constant thing: you can act like a ‘sociopath’ with one person (basically be a manipulative ass towards someone) and be perfectly genuine with someone else.
> I have been and done both. I concluded sociopathy is just immaturity: we choose what gives us meaning in life. If the meaning is to deceive others for short term gain then so be it. The law of attraction will ensure loneliness after you hurt a couple of people. You can choose to find someone you can love: if you want to call it finding another ‘sociopath’, that’s fine
> ...


Ah, in my other thread I also questioned the use of these labels as well, that there are no sociopaths, only sociopathic traits as is the current stance of the mental health institutions clouded by the necessity for the courts and insurance companies to draw a red line so they can label folks. However it's much easier to type not to mention much easier for others to understand "I'm a sociopath!" rather than "I have sociopathic traits!"

I've also divided sociopathy into two ends of a spectrum, and it seems I'm not the only one to do so; aka, high-functioning and low-functioning. The low-functioning seems to comprise the majority. Yes, there is immaturity, childishness, irresponsibility, typical ASPD traits. I also definitely wouldn't consider ex-wife or ex-GF easy, I went through hell for ex-wife especially but the challenge alone wasn't enough. There needed to be a click of wavelength that I simply never found except with a past woman who was a little too... messed up even for me, namely the mindless violence with no real long term goal.

Hence I wonder really, if I meet a high-functioning version of her, what would happen...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> There are many women who find ‘sociopathic’ guys highly attractive (probably same for men): there’s always that hope to ‘turn them around’ and be The One
> Truth is: there’s a type for everyone: just because one was successful at ‘playing’ someone or a few people, doesn’t really ‘qualify’ them as a sociopath. They most likely just haven’t met their type yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Heh you make it sound so simple


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Ah, in my other thread I also questioned the use of these labels as well, that there are no sociopaths, only sociopathic traits as is the current stance of the mental health institutions clouded by the necessity for the courts and insurance companies to draw a red line so they can label folks. However it's much easier to type not to mention much easier for others to understand "I'm a sociopath!" rather than "I have sociopathic traits!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just think one should be careful with these labels: I don’t think they accomplish anything in this case. By ‘easy’ I didn’t mean you wouldn’t have to go through hell. Easy is precisely that lacking wavelength you are talking about (in my mind).
Even if you meet another ‘sociopath’: how will you know they are a sociopath?
Why don’t you just meet someone who you ‘click’ with and forget about this sociopathy thing? It’s not an excuse to hurt someone  but it is a good idea to reflect on one’s actions when you realise you DID hurt someone (do sociopaths actually have the ability to even be reflective? I wouldn’t have thought so. Their main trait is that they are always ‘right’, their world is warped and revolves around them and their values.)


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> When the sorrow of another pleases you, this is a sure sign that you really shouldn't be in any type of relationship.


Does this mean that everyone here who feels pleased when a WS gets hit by the Karma bus shouldn't be in relationships? That is clearly feeling joy at the sorrow of another person, regardless of whether or not it's believed the person had it coming.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Heh you make it sound so simple




It most certainly isn’t. Most people never meet their 100% match, ever. Nor do they have to: I believe meeting someone who is 75% and upwards of their type is enough; the rest is about HIS & HER needs  (also not simple but it’s another topic).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Hence I wonder really, if I meet a high-functioning version of her, what would happen...



According to your understanding and definitions of sociopathy this will obviously not work as it’s an oxymoron: a true sociopath will be out to find ways to manipulate and trick you until the end. There is no ‘understanding’ possible.

I believe what’s more likely to happen is that you are eventually going to meet someone where you will feel that you won’t have to play games with their feelings anymore.
Eventually this happens to most, even the most hardened sociopaths 
Then, depending on your theories, she will either dump you or you both will live happily forever after  


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

People change the way they think or feel about other things or other people: I know a few ex-hardcore ‘feminists’ who are at their happiest now, in a role of being a stay at home mother and a few die hard sociopaths (including myself) who are more or less happily in love without all the BS.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> I just think one should be careful with these labels: I don’t think they accomplish anything in this case. By ‘easy’ I didn’t mean you wouldn’t have to go through hell. Easy is precisely that lacking wavelength you are talking about (in my mind).
> Even if you meet another ‘sociopath’: how will you know they are a sociopath?
> 
> Why don’t you just meet someone who you ‘click’ with and forget about this sociopathy thing? It’s not an excuse to hurt someone  but it is a good idea to reflect on one’s actions when you realise you DID hurt someone (do sociopaths actually have the ability to even be reflective? I wouldn’t have thought so. Their main trait is that they are always ‘right’, their world is warped and revolves around them and their values.)
> ...


Heh what if those I click with actually share my sociopathic traits? Also considering no one except for other sociopaths seem to share the same thought processes and vice versa, it's kinda telling. Besides actively seeking out a 'sociopath' would be a step to finding answers to a question that I always had, I obviously need to filter out the 'normal' people otherwise there would be more collateral. All this is still a learning process, and though I use the labels due to ease of use, deep down I believe what is currently considered facts; "no sociopaths, only sociopathic traits, existing in all of us"

Don't make me type so much! 




inmyprime said:


> According to your understanding and definitions of sociopathy this will obviously not work as it’s an oxymoron: *a true sociopath will be out to find ways to manipulate and trick you until the end. There is no ‘understanding’ possible.*
> 
> I believe what’s more likely to happen is that you are eventually going to meet someone where you will feel that you won’t have to play games with their feelings anymore.
> Eventually this happens to most, even the most hardened sociopaths
> ...


Not always, take my example, and others diagnosed yet are quite functional in society (based on Dr. Dutton's book). We have the qualities, but our actions are deliberate and often governed by a code.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> We have the qualities, but our actions are deliberate and often governed by a code.



And that’s the case for everyone: we all live by a code; it’s called a moral code. Some find it easier than others but it doesn’t come 100% natural to everyone and we often debate which decision to take precisely because of this struggle.
There is no ‘normal’.



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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm... true, morality is relative after all. Tell me then, how do you think I should proceed, knowing my current state of affairs and mindset?

How to simply find the 'click'?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... true, morality is relative after all. Tell me then, how do you think I should proceed, knowing my current state of affairs and mindset?
> 
> How to simply find the 'click'?




Erm...go out and meet women, until you click with someone? 
And if you meet someone you don’t click with, don’t go along with her for convenience’s sake, even if she finds herself completely into you.

What I wouldn’t do is not even try, for fear of being a ‘sociopath’. (Because you were twice unlucky. Or they were, with you).
Beware that you also can get hurt, like those ‘normal’ people too.
Good luck 



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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> I just think one should be careful with these labels: I don’t think they accomplish anything in this case. By ‘easy’ I didn’t mean you wouldn’t have to go through hell. Easy is precisely that lacking wavelength you are talking about (in my mind).
> Even if you meet another ‘sociopath’: how will you know they are a sociopath?
> Why don’t you just meet someone who you ‘click’ with and forget about this sociopathy thing? It’s not an excuse to hurt someone  but it is a good idea to reflect on one’s actions when you realise you DID hurt someone (do sociopaths actually have the ability to even be reflective? I wouldn’t have thought so. Their main trait is that they are always ‘right’, their world is warped and revolves around them and their values.)
> 
> ...





inmyprime said:


> Erm...go out and meet women, until you click with someone?
> And if you meet someone you don’t click with, don’t go along with her for convenience’s sake, even if she finds herself completely into you.
> 
> What I wouldn’t do is not even try, for fear of being a ‘sociopath’. (Because you were twice unlucky. Or they were, with you).
> ...


 

Already tried that I'm afraid, it's not just ex-wife or ex-GF, there were many, many in between. Besides, a marriage or traditional relationship isn't really what I'm looking for. I just want a good *F*WB, special emphasis on the friend, who I can relate to, who can understand me, and vice versa, and I can scratch the itch with without risk of her falling in love wanting this and that and this and that and driving me the fk away... ack!

Think that's the closest to love I can feel.

"I love you..."
"I love me too!"

"I love you..."
*pause*
"*sings* I wanna know what love is!"

I still can't believe I got away with using the second one on my ex-GF :rofl:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Already tried that I'm afraid, it's not just ex-wife or ex-GF, there were many, many in between. Besides, a marriage or traditional relationship isn't really what I'm looking for. I just want a good *F*WB



Haha, don’t we all? What else does one need, I mean really? Or are you implying that marrying someone will automatically throw the ‘friend’ and ‘benefit’ bit out the window, and just leaves you with ‘with’? (I wouldn’t blame you, considering the stuff people write on TAM).

I don’t know how many women you dated or how old you are but I would just keep looking and not stop until you find it. If that’s what you want.
Replying on TAM is likely to slow you down a bit though 
Nor is it the best place to look...(imo).



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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

inmyprime said:


> Haha, don’t we all? What else does one need, I mean really? Or are you implying that marrying someone will automatically throw the ‘friend’ and ‘benefit’ bit out the window? (I wouldn’t blame you, considering the stuff people wrote on TAM...).
> 
> I don’t know how many women you dated or how old you are but I would just keep looking and not stop until you find it. If that’s what you want.
> Replying on TAM is likely to slow you down a bit though
> ...


Heh marriage... it's just not me. I despise vulnerability, dependence, yet I entered into something I hated. I did it for her. My daughter. Because I made a promise. A promise she will live a different life (which I ultimately failed in the family part - due to divorce). I was twelve, I made it then, way before she was even born. I was an idiot. I learnt.

Anyway, reminds me now of another reason I'm curious about dating an ASPD - no heart to break. Sure, I may wound her, sting her, but she won't be in love enough to be devastated - IN theory! Ah hell I don't know, everything is still experimental and speculation.

As for getting out there, that's for step ~4 of the game plan. Right now still forming step 1.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I am a so-called “normal”. In my view the lack of empathy characteristic associated with ASPD is not as potentially threatening as the total lack of conscience that is included in the ASPD diagnosis. Empathy deficiency is possible to detect if you interact with an ASPD. Lack of conscience is extremely difficult to detect in a high-functioning ASPD and, IMO is a much more dangerous quality.

@RandomDude, I would not give up on what you seek. I agree that fellow ASPD’s are likely more suited to each other in intimate relationships. You have to remember that, depending on the data source, ASPD’s are 2 to 4% of the population and so are harder to find though not impossible.

I admire the fact that you are self-aware and that you realize the need for a code of ethics.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So, within the last few minutes I have been convinced that *LOVE* is very likely possible between ASPDers, won't say how. 

But WTF?! Didn't really expect it...

And now this...


Red Sonja said:


> @RandomDude, I would not give up on what you seek. I agree that fellow ASPD’s are likely more suited to each other in intimate relationships. You have to remember that, depending on the data source, ASPD’s are 2 to 4% of the population and so are harder to find though not impossible.
> 
> I admire the fact that you are self-aware and that you realize the need for a code of ethics.


Actually, I take back my last few posts, if it is possible, maybe I should scrap the straight out FWB stuff and give it a real shot. 2% is good odds. That's around ~20k of them in my city.

Hmmm....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell to experience what everyone keeps telling me about, that it is actually possible, for someone like me?

Only one way to find out and I'm bored as fk


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And... I'm stuck, now how the hell do I start? I'm getting a little excited!

Kinda makes me wonder about the lives gays have, so many in the closet, how do they meet up? Ah! Gay bars! 

There needs to be a sociopath bar -.-

Ah well, looks like I can't look for this one, *excitement gone*, but if it's possible, worth keeping the door open to the opportunity.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Sociopath bar is the one where they pour you grapefruit juice, promising a gin & tonic.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been processing the latest revelation, if it is possible. Shouldn't I be avoiding it?

Like, the whole plan was to have a connection and measure of understanding in a FWB relationship, the good without the bad, the sex without the love, the joys without the pain, the connection without the attachment. But if it would lead to something else, then it's no longer what I'm looking for, it's something else, very interesting, but ultimately... still a change of lifestyle that I don't want. Marriage again? I don't know. Yet why do I find myself drawn to the possibility? Am I a slave to my curiousity?

Then again... I am a cat...

*processing*

Hmmm...



inmyprime said:


> Sociopath bar is the one where they pour you grapefruit juice, promising a gin & tonic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> Does this mean that everyone here who feels pleased when a WS gets hit by the Karma bus shouldn't be in relationships? That is clearly feeling joy at the sorrow of another person, regardless of whether or not it's believed the person had it coming.


There is a certain amount of "revenge" most people will take pleasure from, especially when something happens to the person or persons who caused them harm to begin with.

But when we are talking about someone who enjoys (or used to enjoy) torturing animals and "feels pleased" by their pain....that's different altogether, yeah? This type of person is what I mean, and RD has identified himself as this type of person.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't torture animals, humans however... 

Anyway I see no reason to act on every desire, especially if the desire conflicts with my code of ethics.


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