# Deleted All Husbands Porn



## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

Okay, I am kind of scared and nervous. I deleted all my husbands porn from his computer tonight. I had asked him to do this 2 days ago. He went to bed at his usual time 2 a.m. and I couldn't sleep because I was horny. I asked him, if he wanted to have sex. No, was his reply. I'm so sick of hearing that "I love you and desire you." but not showing iniative on his part, especially sexually. We tried to have sex (our first time in 8months) and it didn't go so well. I would have thought he would have showed a little more effort and passion on his part considering it's been so long. Neither one of us climixed and was happy it was over.

I guess we will see is TRUE committment to fixing this marriage when he finds out I deleted over 2,000 videos from his computer of porn. Anybody else going through something similar?


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I never had any problems with porn, so I can't say this even crossed my mind.

Don't know. If I were you, just on the off chance it escalates, I'd be hiding my lingerie/cosmetics/jewelry :/

Let us know how it pans out.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Good for you!

I can write the book on lack of sex in marriage. I've been living with it a while.

But, I haven't had the nerve to delete all his porn - I'd be too scared, great that you took a stand - wish I could - guess I'm not there yet.

Be careful though, if he is indeed addicted, he might get ugly when he founds out its gone, you could just play dumb and say "I didn't do anything, what are you talking about?" But he's probably not that stupid, only you would know.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Deleting his porn is like someone pouring out a alcoholics liquor. It will not make him stop. Chances are he will not just wake up, and realize the hurt he has caused you. It will likely backfire and he will harbor even more resentment. 

I'm not saying any of this to sound negative. Because I do wish it would stop him from looking at it again and that you deleting it will "fix" things. The reality of it is, I doubt that's going to happen. Could it? Sure. Likely, not so sure.

It was actually a control tactic on your part because of what you didn't like he was doing. I understand that you feel you were trying to "help" because he didn't do it himself. The problem is, that isn't helpful he will NOT see it like that. I have been there with my first wife who was a drug addict. I didn't like the things she was doing. I tried to get rid of her drugs and did for awhile, or so I thought. She even told me it was good that I had done that, but the whole time she was actually getting more drugs behind my back. 

I hope things work out for you, but just be prepared when he finds out you deleted his stuff, I doubt it will be all roses. Could he hug you and thank you to your face and make you feel like you did a wonderful thing for him, sure he can, does it mean that he is sincere and will stop, probably not.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

trey69 said:


> Deleting his porn is like someone pouring out a alcoholics liquor. It will not make him stop. Chances are he will not just wake up, and realize the hurt he has caused you. It will likely backfire and he will harbor even more resentment.
> 
> I'm not saying any of this to sound negative. Because I do wish it would stop him from looking at it again and that you deleting it will "fix" things. The reality of it is, I doubt that's going to happen. Could it? Sure. Likely, not so sure.
> 
> ...


:iagree: "He" has to admit there is a problem first before any change can happen and he hasn't admitted that.

You are owning the problem, he's not.

I'm in the same boat, I do know how you feel.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, he hasn't brought it to my attention yet. Although I just did early in the morning, so It might not be until later tonight that he finds out. So, I'll keep you posted. Our marriage is kind of disfunctional but I'm the only one admitting my wrongs right now. I want to talk about this and other issues, but he acts as if he is SO uncomfortable talking about it, which I really don't understand. If you can watch that stuff, then WHY be embrasssed about talking about sexual issues. Confused?


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## moonangel (Jan 19, 2011)

I can't believe you did that...scary. I'd never do that to my husband's whatever his fetish or whatnot. I'd just have the talk but I know we are different.

...I hope it doesn't turn out so bad. Porn is just porn...it can always be replaced...but that's coming from someone who could careless about porn...so....not sure.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

Porn is a distraction for some people and not a stimulate. And given the fact that I want sex ALL the time it upsets me. I don't know why so horny all the time now, the wind could blow up my skrit and I get excited, 
Lol. Masterbating is not cutting it for me. 

I just woke up and discovered that he slept in the other bedroom. When I tried to open the door it was locked. So ill guess we will see in the morning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

It sounds like he might have an actual problem like an addiction. Porn viewing from time to time is one thing, but when you prefer it over a real human body and that person is willing and wanting to have sex with you, then there is a deeper issue going on.


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## SoCalMark (Dec 31, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> Okay, I am kind of scared and nervous. I deleted all my husbands porn from his computer tonight. I had asked him to do this 2 days ago. He went to bed at his usual time 2 a.m. and I couldn't sleep because I was horny. I asked him, if he wanted to have sex. No, was his reply. I'm so sick of hearing that "I love you and desire you." but not showing iniative on his part, especially sexually. We tried to have sex (our first time in 8months) and it didn't go so well. I would have thought he would have showed a little more effort and passion on his part considering it's been so long. Neither one of us climixed and was happy it was over.
> 
> I guess we will see is TRUE committment to fixing this marriage when he finds out I deleted over 2,000 videos from his computer of porn. Anybody else going through something similar?



Here's a link I found very helpful for someone one time Porn Addiction- Sexual Addiction Treatment -Masturbation Addiction Recovery and Support . It *IS* an addiction. I am a computer consultant and you can't believe the number of computers I find it on and have to block for wives / girlfriends. The broad range of men it affects is simply amazing and it's mostly the quiet unassuming marriages that have the perfect facade of a relationship to the neighborhood. When I show the women they can't believe it. It is more so on men over 30 (even higher at 40+) than on teenage boys computers.

Quite frankly, I think it's why some men lose interest in their wife because they are looking for that "online porn" experience in the bedroom. I call it - Diminish and Return - when there just isn't enough to satisfy and they need to go on to the next plateau.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

@SoCalMark
I know what you are saying is true and porn is VERY addictive. However when I have appoarched him about this topic in the past, he said it was no big deal and he was just stressed. He doesn't think his porn watching has anything to do with our lack of sex or diminishing intimacy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> @SoCalMark
> I know what you are saying is true and porn is VERY addictive. However when I have appoarched him about this topic in the past, he said it was no big deal and he was just stressed. He doesn't think his porn watching has anything to do with our lack of sex or diminishing intimacy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




That's a typical answer from someone who doesn't want to let go of what they are doing. Of course he thinks its ok, he is the one doing what he wants and enjoys. Most drug addicts, alcoholics, abusers etc, usually will justify what they do too.

When someone escapes to far into a fantasy to the point of not wanting to connect with their spouse, then its a problem. Did he have any kind of intimacy issues before he started watching all the porn?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

"He doesn't think his porn watching has anything to do with our lack of sex or diminishing intimacy".

That may or may not be the case. Maybe his porn watching doesn't have anything to do with the intimacy issues, but its obviously not helping it either. 

Which leads me to believe that even if the porn doesn't have anything to do with the lack of sex, then something else is. What that is, is what you need to find out. The porn is probably just a cover/escape for something else he doesn't want to or know how to deal with.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

UPDATE: Well he knows that I deleted all his porn and he is mad. Once he finally came out the other bedroom he went straight to the bathroom and then got dressed without even talking to me. He usually drops off our daughter to school and then comes back home to get coffee, his computer and works a little before he goes to the office. But when I asked him was he coming back he said no. Although.he hasn't said anything about the porn I know he knows. But I'm not scared/mad. I'm actually glad its out in the open. Now maybe we can talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

AgentD said:


> That's a typical answer from someone who doesn't want to let go of what they are doing. Of course he thinks its ok, he is the one doing what he wants and enjoys. Most drug addicts, alcoholics, abusers etc, usually will justify what they do too.
> 
> When someone escapes to far into a fantasy to the point of not wanting to connect with their spouse, then its a problem. Did he have any kind of intimacy issues before he started watching all the porn?


@SolCalMark

Before I realized he was watching that much porn, we did not have intimacy issues and we had sex about once a week. However he could have been viewing it before. I didn't start snooping through his computer and cell until the sex became less and less until we were 8 months without being intimate. I kept ignoring it because I didn't want it to seem like I was jealous of porn. But I started to resent his porn watching because we weren't having sex. Something inside me just snapped and I deleted it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

trey69 said:


> "He doesn't think his porn watching has anything to do with our lack of sex or diminishing intimacy".
> 
> That may or may not be the case. Maybe his porn watching doesn't have anything to do with the intimacy issues, but its obviously not helping it either.
> 
> Which leads me to believe that even if the porn doesn't have anything to do with the lack of sex, then something else is. What that is, is what you need to find out. The porn is probably just a cover/escape for something else he doesn't want to or know how to deal with.


:iagree:

I am a woman. Not to patronize the issue here, but I could never understand why/how porn can be considered an addiction. I mean, for example, a guy is supposed to go camping for 3 days. He doesn't go "OMG! OMG! I can't go without porn, where is my porn, how will I survive without it?"

The reason why I say this is because I know what people addicted to heroin are like about heroin.

The way I understand the porn issue is that he watches porn, but not for porn's sake. He watches porn, because he wants that sexual gratification (and who doesn't?). Porn is just there, a tool for him to achieve it. The fact that he doesn't feel like achieving it with me, now that's a whole different ball game.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> @SolCalMark
> 
> Before I realized he was watching that much porn, we did not have intimacy issues and we had sex about once a week. However he could have been viewing it before. I didn't start snooping through his computer and cell until the sex became less and less until we were 8 months without being intimate. I kept ignoring it because I didn't want it to seem like I was jealous of porn. But I started to resent his porn watching because we weren't having sex. Something inside me just snapped and I deleted it all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm... You know, watching porn does not decrease my drive, it actually increases it. Keep in mind I watch it almost daily. This may be strange, but after I watch intersting (could go from kinky to loving) stuff in a movie, I just can't wait to try it with my gal.
Then again, I don't watch porn to see other women, I watch them to fantasize about my girl and what we could be doing. Also, I can easily go without watching, just a tool to "inspire" me. Doesn't bother my gf as well, she watches almost as much as I do, but she rarely ever uh, plays with herself when doing it. Guess it's more mental stimulation for her. 

P.S. How has he reacted to it?


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

@reachingshore............I see your point as it not being an addiction. However, it does give you a high/gratification when watching it. I guess I was jealous because I wanted to feel that emotion and not have him put his emotions into porn only.

@Draguna.................I don't know how he reacts to porn watching. He usually does it in private. I suspect that I am always sleep, because I have never caught him watching it. The reason I think it is a problem is because WHY do you have to download it? I mean, I have watched porn. There is plenty of free porn on the internet if you just wanted to get your rocks off. But a collection of over 2,000 clips/pics/full videos? When do you have the time to view that? Who has the time to view all that? This would explain his late nights staying up, while I am sleep or out the house. 

He does have a right to be mad because he may feel violated. Also, I'm sure that he has changed the password to his computer and phone. So now we have trust issues. I won't bring up the issue to him. I want to see where he will take it or how long he will give me the silent treatment.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AgentD said:


> It sounds like he might have an actual problem like an addiction. Porn viewing from time to time is one thing, but when you prefer it over a real human body and that person is willing and wanting to have sex with you, then there is a deeper issue going on.


You are SO on target here.

The problem is getting your husband to tell you what the deeper issue is or discuss it with you and that's where the disconnect lies - some of them won't so you don't even know the the issue is to work on - it's all guesswork on your part.

This is why some of us can't get it resolved.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

SoCalMark said:


> Here's a link I found very helpful for someone one time Porn Addiction- Sexual Addiction Treatment -Masturbation Addiction Recovery and Support . It *IS* an addiction. I am a computer consultant and you can't believe the number of computers I find it on and have to block for wives / girlfriends. The broad range of men it affects is simply amazing and it's mostly the quiet unassuming marriages that have the perfect facade of a relationship to the neighborhood. When I show the women they can't believe it. It is more so on men over 30 (even higher at 40+) than on teenage boys computers.
> 
> Quite frankly, I think it's why some men lose interest in their wife because they are looking for that "online porn" experience in the bedroom. I call it - Diminish and Return - when there just isn't enough to satisfy and they need to go on to the next plateau.


:iagree: AMEN!


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## danavince (Nov 19, 2009)

You are right, that with 2000 videos and clips saved on the computer that he has a problem. Did you say that you went 8 months with no sex at all? There are definitely some other underlying issues here. 
I am in agreement with some insightful statements above, that when he is choosing porn over sex with his wife, there are significant issues not being addressed. Porn can be a positive thing for a marriage when it turns you toward your partner, when it's shared, and when you are both comfortable with it, but it can be very detrimental if it turns you away from your partner, it is done secretly, or it's excessive to the point of being an addiction. Sounds like he's got all 3 of those markers, and your relationship is lacking intimacy. He does not seem ready to acknowledge there are deeper problems here. 
You deleting all his stuff behind his back was not the greatest marital move, however, if that becomes the issue, then there is continued avoidance and denial of what the real problems are. Don't allow him to use that to now blame you. You can admit you made a mistake, but don't let that distract from the deeper issues. 
If he is open to it, I highly recommend marriage counseling.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

danavince said:


> You are right, that with 2000 videos and clips saved on the computer that he has a problem. Did you say that you went 8 months with no sex at all? There are definitely some other underlying issues here.
> I am in agreement with some insightful statements above, that when he is choosing porn over sex with his wife, there are significant issues not being addressed. Porn can be a positive thing for a marriage when it turns you toward your partner, when it's shared, and when you are both comfortable with it, but it can be very detrimental if it turns you away from your partner, it is done secretly, or it's excessive to the point of being an addiction. Sounds like he's got all 3 of those markers, and your relationship is lacking intimacy. He does not seem ready to acknowledge there are deeper problems here.
> You deleting all his stuff behind his back was not the greatest marital move, however, if that becomes the issue, then there is continued avoidance and denial of what the real problems are. Don't allow him to use that to now blame you. You can admit you made a mistake, but don't let that distract from the deeper issues.
> If he is open to it, I highly recommend marriage counseling.


Great advice.

While MC helps, he has to open up in MC about the sexual issues. My husband and I have discussed everything under the sun in MC, but he shys away from the sexual issues - does not want to discuss them.

So they're not getting discussed by anyone, he won't talk to me, I can't talk to him (he shuts down) and he doesn't want to discuss it with MC.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Porn is abuse. It commodifies women. If it is done in secret and not shared with significant other or spouse, it usually leads to heartbreak in the end. 

What you have is a husband viewing (in great detail) the flesh and intimate parts of ANOTHER woman and he is climaxing with a cyberbabe, probably younger and not likely to entertain him long term in real life and all of this is happening in YOUR home! 

HE IS CHEATING. How does this make you feel? 

His deceptive cheating secretive behaviour may mean he will move to the next level: online dating and illicit meetings for sex with strangers and possibly online affairs. This would leave you wide open and exposed to STDs and other diseases that could harm you, your life and your family.

Have it out in the open with him and say how it makes you feel. No drama. Say that it is not acceptable to you. Your the real deal. 

If you put up with it any longer he will break your heart, tear your life apart and turn your world upside down. 

His porn problem is serious. His online porn activity is having a negative effect on you and your marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> But I started to resent his porn watching because we weren't having sex. Something inside me just snapped and I deleted it all.


Even though I disagree with the going behind his back to delete it all - much better to Out right YELL at him , or sit him down, say you found it and tell him how you feel. (I used to post scriptures on my husbands desktop & warn him I will delete before I did it). Now you will have to climb through some trust issues in addition to his "Addiction" problem. 

But his hand is this is far worse than anything you have done, he SHOULD understand your madness and anger over this and how you "snapped". 8 months with NO intimacy! To expect anything less from his wife when she discovered it, something is wrong with him!


My husband downloads stuff all the time, he has a huge collection (just playboy type pics, no videos, no men in the scenes), saves these things on his hard drive. BUt he has never once denied me. He always waits for me. Even though I do not look upon Porn viewing as "cheating" generally - specifically when the wife has a lower drive & the husband is very frustrated & needs more releases. 

But...

IN situations like this, I would indeed look to this as a form of Cheating! You have every right to scream from the nearest Mountain top & be outraged. 

What might have caused this escalation in his watching- do you feel ? Other problems in the marraige last year? I am surprised it took this long for you to start snooping. Wasn't you upset at 1 month with no intimacy / sex ?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> I won't bring up the issue to him. I want to see where he will take it or how long he will give me the silent treatment.


When i was battling the porn battle with my H i started off with little things like this to try and get my H's attention. I even wanted to help at first. After some fights he would give me the silent treatment, I would try and give it back, but eventually i would explode. We fought almost every single day for four years, with occasional blow-outs on the weekends. It started out with small fights and silent treatments but as the years dragged on it escalated into me threatening to leave him, drugging myself with my sisters anti-psychotic prescription grade ativan, smashing every single DVD he owned, along with his video game console, and then his car. He had dreams of killing me at one point. It got very ugly. 

What started off as me wanting to help the relationship metamorphsized into me unconsciously wanting to get even and hurt him as much as he'd hurt me. Trying to control your H will take you down this path. Its an extremely destructive and counterproductive path. The most painful thing you'll have to confront is that he does not care about you right now and you cannot make him. Find support else where but stop trying to change him. Ask yourself what you need from him and ask him if he can give that to you. If he says no you must decide what you are willing to live with.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> But I'm not scared/mad. I'm actually glad its out in the open. Now maybe we can talk.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Respectfully, even taking your posts after this one into account, it doesn't sound like it *is *"out in the open." You're both engaging in passive/aggressive behavior...you in deleting his files but not mentioning it; him in not confronting you about it, but sleeping in another room and giving you the silent treatment.

Personally, neither I nor my wife are the type to see porn as a threat to a relationship. I do, however, agree that an interest in porn to the exclusion of intimacy with a spouse can be symptomatic of a problem in the relationship. Which begs the question: Which came first...his increased interest in/use of porn, or the breakdown of intimacy and sex in the relationship? Did he turn to it to fill an existing void, or did he become preoccupied with it and create a void? Or, a little from Column A and a little from Column B?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I am a woman. Not to patronize the issue here, but I could never understand why/how porn can be considered an addiction. I mean, for example, a guy is supposed to go camping for 3 days. He doesn't go "OMG! OMG! I can't go without porn, where is my porn, how will I survive without it?"
> 
> ...


You are welcome to google porn addiction.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Oh, trey, I am the first person to google just about anything :rofl: If I don't know something or not enough about something I google. It's almost a compulsion for me, :rofl: 

I read about porn addiction. I just don't subscribe to this view 

Going back to the main subject. I asked my husband today, assuming I had a problem with porn, what would he do if I deleted it from his computer. He said he wouldn't even notice. At any given time he has about 500GB of it on his PC  Knowing him though, he wouldn't be pissed about the loss, he'd be mad about "tampering with his computer without his knowledge" :rofl: Porn = easily replaceable. His PC = sacred.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> Oh, trey, I am the first person to google just about anything :rofl: If I don't know something or not enough about something I google. It's almost a compulsion for me, :rofl:
> 
> I read about porn addiction. I just don't subscribe to this view
> 
> Going back to the main subject. I asked my husband today, assuming I had a problem with porn, what would he do if I deleted it from his computer. He said he wouldn't even notice. At any given time he has about 500GB of it on his PC  Knowing him though, he wouldn't be pissed about the loss, he'd be mad about "tampering with his computer without his knowledge" :rofl: Porn = easily replaceable. His PC = sacred.


 What may not be a issue for you, may be for others. Its fine that you have no problem with it. Some people have gambling addictions, or drinking or drug addictions, porn is no different. 

Yes there is a difference between watching it sometimes, I never said there was anything wrong with that, but what the OP is describing is the fact that SHE a living breathing human body who wants to have sex with her husband is being replaced by porn.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

trey69 said:


> What may not be a issue for you, may be for others.


Oh, yeah I totally agree with you. For whatever reason someone may have a problem with their SO's watching porn, that should be respected. All I am saying is that quite often porn isn't the cause of sexless relationship, but instead simply a result of some other problem in a relationship. 

It may sound like I am indelicate or like I am discounting OP's relationship issues, but truth is that up until recently I was in OP's shoes - I have been very willing and my husband not so much. It's actually a reason why I wound up here, we were at a one year drought when I signed up. Yes, porn was suggested to me, but I discounted it on the spot. I indulge in it solo sometimes too, and unless either of us starts waking up dying to score our fix for the day, I will never think of it as an addiction (even if that happened I would say that I am a nymphomaniac, or addicted to sex, NOT to porn). Yes, I understand that this is my personal take on things, I am not trying to "convert" anyone here  
It's been 7 months since I came here, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that our problem has had nothing to do with porn.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

If a man is watching porn (and no doubt masturbating) as a preference to having sex with a willing wife, then clearly there is a problem.
However, men have a far higher sex drive (in general) than women. I think all men enjoy watching porn as it takes you into a fantasy world...its an escape...especially so if the real world isn't so good.
My wife has never given me head...I enjoy watching porn that involves a girl giving the man a BJ because I imagine its her doing it to me. Far better that than I be unfaithful and have it done by someone else for real.
Porn can be enjoyed by a couple together...its fun...you feel intimate together, you enjoy it.

2,000 videos, a horny wife who wants her husband badly yet all he does is sit and wank whilst watching porn = big problem!


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

To Everyone: thank you for the insightful comments. I really don't know which came first the lack of intimacy or excessive porn watching. Also he did not come last night until around 11:30pm we still did not talk and he slept in the other bedroom. I know he is extremely mad to sleep on a futon 2 nights in a row. I put a note attached to the t.v saying "I'm sorry for not giving you enough time to do what you said you would. I'm sorry for making you feel violated and not giving you your privacy. I thought I was helping. 50% and 50% of me was mad and jealous. Maybe we can talk when your ready." It is going to be a long weekend if he gives me the silent treatment the whole time. Just Fyi - I did ask him to delete the porn and he said yes. But when I discovered that he was backing up the files on his external hard drive-in - I snapped and begin deleting it all (from the laptop and external drive). I guess he didn't think I was that computer savvy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Is it possible you could give him an ulitimatium? 
Of course they only work if you follow through with what you say you're gonna do.

Bottom line, if you want to salvage things, and think there is a chance he does, you need to lay down some boundaries. I'm not saying throw out a threat that if he he doesn't stop you will leave, although if that is an option for you and you want to do that, then thats your decision. 

I was meaning more along the lines of, sitting him down, expressing your concern and maybe suggesting counseling etc. When you talk to him its best to not break and cry, I know that might be hard, but you need to be nice but firm, he probably doesn't take you real seriously. Remember though if he has a real problem/addiction, then what you say could fall of deaf ears. Because his porn watching right now, is way more important than you, that is the way addictions usually work until they decide they want to get help. 

If he is not willing to at least meet you half way, then the ball will be in your court and you will have to decide what you feel is best for you.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> Just Fyi - I did ask him to delete the porn and he said yes. But when I discovered that he was backing up the files on his external hard drive-in - I snapped and begin deleting it all (from the laptop and external drive). I guess he didn't think I was that computer savvy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh lol... he had zero intention of deleting it then.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

@SimplyAmorous.......after one month with no sex I was not alarmed because our sex life had been dwindling to once a month anyway (not my choice). But I just supplimented with masterbation. Plus we continued to have talks about the issue and he always said he's so attracted to and things would change. So I believed him like a good wife. I wanted tone sympathetic to his "stress". 

@trey69.....I don't know if I am ready to give him an ultimatum yet.plus his not even talking to me right now. I can't believe I am dealing with this and I have only been married two years.although there are people on this site that have been married MANY years and suffer in silence. I don't know if I can do that. I am only 32. 

The main reason it is hard to give an ultimatum is because despite our sexual issues he is a nice guy and a good friend. So the question I ask myself is "sex a deal breaker in a marriage considering everything else is good?" Can a person live like that? Although now I have created "new" issues by deleting his porn. Trust. So this marriage might be over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

UPDATE: A little voice told me this morning to check my computer and guess what?..................all my files are gone (except the pictures, lol). Not a big surprise. If I were really concerned about it, I would have changed my laptop password. SO i guess he is really made. It is time for an ultimatium, if he ever comes out the darn room. 

FYI- I'm not mad about him deleting the files. It's whatver to me. That just shows me that he really does have a problem.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

With all due respect Mrs In Love...why not mention your side of issues in this thread - I couldn't help but notice your postings about coming out of a 3 month affair & how sex is awkward with your husband. Now it makes a little more sense that 8 months elapsed before you got to this point. 

I think you both need to come clean & see if anything is left. YOu asked on here if not having sex is a deal breaker in marriage. I think you already knew that answer. 

Break this Silent Treatment today. Get it ALL out on the table. I don't think many could reconnect on any meaningful level with these kinds of things hidden from their spouses & buried in their hearts.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> With all due respect Mrs In Love...why not mention your side of issues in this thread - I couldn't help but notice your postings about coming out of a 3 month affair & how sex is awkward with your husband. Now it makes a little more sense that 8 months elapsed before you got to this point.
> 
> I think you both need to come clean & see if anything is left. YOu asked on here if not having sex is a deal breaker in marriage. I think you already knew that answer.
> 
> Break this Silent Treatment today. Get it ALL out on the table. I don't think many could reconnect on any meaningful level with these kinds of things hidden from their spouses & buried in their hearts.


This puts it into context for me. Yeah, have to agree with SimplyAmorous.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> With all due respect Mrs In Love...why not mention your side of issues in this thread - I couldn't help but notice your postings about coming out of a 3 month affair & how sex is awkward with your husband. Now it makes a little more sense that 8 months elapsed before you got to this point.
> 
> I think you both need to come clean & see if anything is left. YOu asked on here if not having sex is a deal breaker in marriage. I think you already knew that answer.
> 
> Break this Silent Treatment today. Get it ALL out on the table. I don't think many could reconnect on any meaningful level with these kinds of things hidden from their spouses & buried in their hearts.


I did not know this either. Does make more sense, but I guess neither of you are in the clear then. 

However, if he forgave you for the affair, decided to stay, and you both agreed to work on things to save your marriage, then the silent treatment does need to be broke. The silent treatment is a form of control. He is trying to punish you for what you did, its a childish passive aggressive tactic. Instead of talking things out, he is hiding out in another room while you are left hurt and frustrated. 

Time to put your foot down.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Theres always TWO sides to the story. and we usually only hear one


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I didn't read this thread. . .I just saw the title and the "I'm a little nervous" but I am thinking about an old "Married With Children" episode where Peg Bundy sells all of Al Bundy's Playboy collection and TV so she can buy a trip to Las Vegas.

Al Bundy flips out. LOL.

I couldn't help but think of that episode.

Okay, just a little comical relief for an intense thread - I glanced above and see MrsinLove had an affair. That doesn't give husband carte blanche to view porn but does demonstrate this relationship is extremely dysfunctional.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> UPDATE: A little voice told me this morning to check my computer and guess what?..................all my files are gone (except the pictures, lol). Not a big surprise. If I were really concerned about it, I would have changed my laptop password. SO i guess he is really made. It is time for an ultimatium, if he ever comes out the darn room.
> 
> FYI- I'm not mad about him deleting the files. It's whatver to me. That just shows me that he really does have a problem.


This is extremely childish on his part - tit for tat.

I hate to say this, but porn does not appear to be your only problem.

I'm sorry...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I didn't know about the affair either. Guess I should have read some other threads.

Sounds like he hasn't forgiven the affair. So porn and rejecting you is his way of punishing you for the affair, even if he says he has forgiven you.

It's just like the previous poster said, this is a form of passive-agressiveness - instead of dealing with you and the problem, he deals with it by rejecting intimacy, silence and masturbation.

LOTS OF PROBLEMS HERE. Kind of puts mine into perspective. Yeah, my sex life sucks - but no one had an affair to get over, just other resentments.

You both need to be in MC or the stalemate will continue and you will both be so resentful they'll be nothing left to salvage and at 2 years in, its a good time to get it all out in the open, or you'll be 25 years down the road wondering why you wasted your life.

Please get into counselling ASAP.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I didn't read this thread. . .I just saw the title and the "I'm a little nervous" but I am thinking about an old "Married With Children" episode where Peg Bundy sells all of Al Bundy's Playboy collection and TV so she can buy a trip to Las Vegas.
> 
> Al Bundy flips out. LOL.
> 
> ...


I saw that episode - love MWC - my husband is an Al Bundy reincarnated!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I saw that episode - love MWC - my husband is an Al Bundy reincarnated!


Maybe that's my problem...:rofl:


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, the problem is you are sitting home all day not cooking and eating bon-bons and asking for money and sex from your husband, MWIL


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Men hate this kind of snooping around in their private affairs. This is probably going to end very badly.


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## Sucker (Jan 3, 2010)

It might not be the porn that's the reason for the lack of sex, and maybe you're in denial mode, using the porn as the excuse.

Eight months is a looooooong time to go without a fcuk, and sex is usually the first thing to go out the door, when there's another party involved.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Grayson said:


> Respectfully, even taking your posts after this one into account, it doesn't sound like it *is *"out in the open." You're both engaging in passive/aggressive behavior...you in deleting his files but not mentioning it; him in not confronting you about it, but sleeping in another room and giving you the silent treatment.
> 
> Personally, neither I nor my wife are the type to see porn as a threat to a relationship. I do, however, agree that an interest in porn to the exclusion of intimacy with a spouse can be symptomatic of a problem in the relationship. Which begs the question: Which came first...his increased interest in/use of porn, or the breakdown of intimacy and sex in the relationship? Did he turn to it to fill an existing void, or did he become preoccupied with it and create a void? Or, a little from Column A and a little from Column B?



I totally agree with this position. I personally know men whose wives turn their husbands down in the sex department so consistantly that they stop trying. The husbands hint around constantly (even publically) and the wife practically ignors. Jokes about men not getting sex after the honeymoon are so common place not because of comic value but, because they are so true, so often it is funny (if not trajic). 

There are many women who want to only be intimate when they are "in the mood" or if it is some romantic endeavor, holiday or whatever and they think everything is OK. Sure women will argue (and some men on this forum) that HE is remiss somehow, that he should be more romantic bla bla. I have even subscribed to this notion but, i have come to realize that many good husbands are starved from lack of sex. Porn in some cases may be the result...not the cause of the lack of intamacy problem. 

Personally, the fact that you did this instead of discussing it speaks volumes about your ability for you and your H to communicate about this topic.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> No, the problem is you are sitting home all day not cooking and eating bon-bons and asking for money and sex from your husband, MWIL


Boy I wished!

I work, he doesn't.

I not only make the bacon, I cook it and he just eats it.

Money - even with retirement, disability - I make the majority of the money.

And sex, let's not go there...

Now that I read this back - hell, I'm a CATCH!!


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## tattoomommy (Aug 14, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Oh lol... he had zero intention of deleting it then.


:iagree:

Sorry, but he didn't. You both need to grow a pair and actually have a conversation about what the issues are- for there is certainly more than one. Fight about it. Something. Passive aggressive behavior is awful. It's so hurtful and deceitful. Just malicious to treat each other this way.


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## tattoomommy (Aug 14, 2009)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I didn't know about the affair either. Guess I should have read some other threads.
> 
> Sounds like he hasn't forgiven the affair. So porn and rejecting you is his way of punishing you for the affair, even if he says he has forgiven you.
> 
> ...


Yep I agree. Hadn't caught the affair part of it at all. I just heard Ricky Ricardo's voice sayin ,"You have some 'splainin to do!"

Seriously? You had an affair for three months. Your sex life dwindled to nothing. He's watching porn. He's not sleeping with you.

HE'S STILL HURTING.

Think about it from his POV. He was cheated on and it obviously crushed him. He probably can't even think about having sex with you without remembering another man had his hands on you! 

I still say you both need to grow a pair and get it all out in the open though. I just understand where he's coming from now and I can't say I blame him.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

Dear original poster and others who post, 

In the interest of all concerned parties time who take time to thoughfully provide suggestions. Perhaps in the future you should clue people in on your history (or at least reference it and provide links to it or somthing) before you ask people to read through a post that does not tell the whole story. 

I agree with others. He has not gotten over the affair and that is understandable. Not to be harsh but, i am SURE many men would prefer to J/O to porn then have sex with you after you were with someone else. He should not be expected to just "get over it". Not sure what came first.. but, sounds like sex and porn may be more sympoms than problems. 

Hopefully, you can work this out.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Respectfully, Personally, neither I nor my wife are the type to see porn as a threat to a relationship. I do, however, agree that an interest in porn to the exclusion of intimacy with a spouse can be symptomatic of a problem in the relationship. Which begs the question: Which came first...his increased interest in/use of porn, or the breakdown of intimacy and sex in the relationship? Did he turn to it to fill an existing void, or did he become preoccupied with it and create a void? Or, a little from Column A and a little from Column B?


Did he engage in porn before you met him? 
Did he bring it into your relationship and make you feel unloved, inadequate or unhappy deep down? 
Did it cause him to show less affection?
Did his porn make you feel he was cheating on you with other women? 
Did it feel like a crowded marriage?
Did you mention how it made you feel and he chose to ignore your feelings? 
In otherwords as Grayson highlights very well..did it create a void, or fill a void? 

Did the porn start after your affair or before it? 
Did he communicate to you that he was unhappy generally?
Did you ignore his views and feelings?
As a consequence did he withdraw into himself and then become quiet, thus resorting to the silent treatment because all else seemed to fail?
Perhaps the silent treatment was used in preference to an all out conflict situation?

Either way, to save your marriage you both need to choose somewhere you both like and feel comfortable to air your feelings and express how unhappy you both feel about what's going on. You need a solution to stop the hurt that is affecting you both before more damage is done. 

Don't wait till it is too late. Your throwing up that you are the breadwinner is counterproductive to both your future. 

You need to sit down and say honey, how can we make things better. We are a partnership. Maybe he needs to retrain to get another job and offer a solution and say how you can support him to make life better for you both. There is resentment here on your part and he is probably feeling this and its making him unhappy and its making you unhappy too. Get it sorted.

You need to talk to save your relationship, not act in ways that destroys it. 

Try and take positive actions to sort out what's wrong. It will make both your lives more enjoyable and loving. Making each other unhappy is not the solution or the best way forward. 

Good luck.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

While I concur that porn can become addictive, I don't feel insecure about my husband looking at porn. It can be a great way to add spice to lovemaking; we have had it on during sex.
The OP's husband sounds like he is choosing porn over his wife, which is very different than enjoying porn as a couple. I laugh at the idea of porn being akin to "cheating". LOL How is it cheating with no intercourse, emotional connection or ANY touching? If the wife is well aware of the porn viewing, there is also no deception.

Deleting all his porn is controlling. He's not a child whose programs or internet time must be monitored. The OP is treating him as such, which causes resentment. It would be much more beneficial for both of them to attend counseling as a couple. Discuss the lack of sex and porn issues with the professional, so that it is out in the open and being treated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

@ Everyone.

1) My husband DOES NOT know about the affair. He does did not find out I had an affair, so there is nothing for him to resentful about. 

2) We had been stopped having sex BEFORE I had an affair. We were at 6 months in before the affair even started.

3) My husband has ALWAYS watched porn before I deleted them and we had a conversation about him deleting the porn.

4) Yes, there are several problems in the marriage and PORN is probably not the issue. I was just mad and frustrated.

5) I do not feel guilty for wanting sex all the damn time. And if i were a man, there would be way more sympthy for my situation. But because I had the balls to actually do something about getting my needs meet---I am in the wrong.

6) I can't say the where the marriage will end, but I do know that SEX is important to me and if someone loved me like they say they do, it would be important to them to. 

Thank you for all the responses.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

*Cowardly deception= No "balls"!*



Mrs. In Love..But said:


> @ Everyone.
> 
> 1) My husband DOES NOT know about the affair. He does did not find out I had an affair, so there is nothing for him to resentful about.
> 
> ...


He could still suspect that you are cheating, which would still cause resentment and distance. Just because your husband hasn't said anything, it doesn't mean that he's in the dark. 
I have sympathy for your sexual frustration, however, it sounds like you are using it as a way to justify cheating. It is WRONG, whether you are a man or a woman.
The porn could be his way of rebelling; you have created a parent/child dynamic, by invading his privacy and deleting his porn. 
So you see cowardly deception has "having balls"? :rofl: Seems quite the opposite to me. Ballsy women face problems head on, instead of running away from them.
You have checked out of the marriage, by seeking comfort from another man. Why should your husband care about your needs, when you don't care about the trust being damaged? You can't have it both ways. Leave the man with his porn, if you feel that you can bone those you are not married to. 
The hypocrisy is astounding.


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## tattoomommy (Aug 14, 2009)

*Re: Cowardly deception= No "balls"!*



Mrs.G said:


> He could still suspect that you are cheating, which would still cause resentment and distance. Just because your husband hasn't said anything, it doesn't mean that he's in the dark.
> I have sympathy for your sexual frustration, however, it sounds like you are using it as a way to justify cheating. It is WRONG, whether you are a man or a woman.
> The porn could be his way of rebelling; you have created a parent/child dynamic, by invading his privacy and deleting his porn.
> So you see cowardly deception has "having balls"? :rofl: Seems quite the opposite to me. Ballsy women face problems head on, instead of running away from them.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::rofl:

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. He probably knows, or has a pretty good idea of what's going on. People aren't stupid. I don't care his reasons, cheating is never an acceptable response to a negative situation. It's wrong no matter the counts. If you don't want to be with him, file for divorce. Then you can sleep with whoever you want to. You're in the wrong here for that point. As for the rest, that's another matter entirely.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

tattoomommy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::rofl:
> 
> I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. He probably knows, or has a pretty good idea of what's going on. People aren't stupid. I don't care his reasons, cheating is never an acceptable response to a negative situation. It's wrong no matter the counts. If you don't want to be with him, file for divorce. Then you can sleep with whoever you want to. You're in the wrong here for that point. As for the rest, that's another matter entirely.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

I DID NOT come on forum looking for sympathy or an excuse for the affair. I think if you polled 100 people they would all agree that I am wrong. No argument here. I am not trying to play the victim. There are other people (ie children which are his biological) to consider. I just find it funny that people complain and complain and they are not in any better position than me. ANYONE who has had REAL success in fixing the lack or no sex in their marriage- I am all ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Well, for starters, I'd recommend stopping the passive/aggressive middle school games and - instead - opening your mouths and talking about what's going on. EVERYTHING that's gone on.


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## Mrs. In Love..But (Jan 11, 2011)

@Grayson
Good advice. But that only works when BOTH people are willing to do that. I have been very vocal about the lack of sex in our marriage. After a while, when there is no change, I start to see you don't care. 

RE: Everything going on....why would I be honest with someone, who can't be honest with me? So, there is also another problem, I guess. We will both be a stand still until...? I already want out of this pretend marriage because I see we can't be honest with each.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Deleting his porn is like someone pouring out a alcoholics liquor. It will not make him stop. Chances are he will not just wake up, and realize the hurt he has caused you. It will likely backfire and he will harbor even more resentment.
> 
> I'm not saying any of this to sound negative. Because I do wish it would stop him from looking at it again and that you deleting it will "fix" things. The reality of it is, I doubt that's going to happen. Could it? Sure. Likely, not so sure.
> 
> ...



Allow me to present an alternate view. If my wife deleted my porn, or even asked me to delete my porn, I'd be pissed off, resentful, and hurt. Why? Because my porn stash is one of my most private, intimate, personal things about my sexuality, and such an overtly aggressive action would indicate SERIOUS problems, including trust issues, in my marriage.

If you have a problem with it, discuss it with your husband, sure. Explore the problem in detail. Work it out. But what you did was controlling, invasive, and rude, not to mention condescending. Shall he now have the right to go through all of your entertainment media and edit at his discretion?

You treated him like a naughty schoolboy, not a man.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

danavince said:


> You are right, that with 2000 videos and clips saved on the computer that he has a problem. Did you say that you went 8 months with no sex at all? There are definitely some other underlying issues here.
> I am in agreement with some insightful statements above, that when he is choosing porn over sex with his wife, there are significant issues not being addressed. Porn can be a positive thing for a marriage when it turns you toward your partner, when it's shared, and when you are both comfortable with it, but it can be very detrimental if it turns you away from your partner, it is done secretly, or it's excessive to the point of being an addiction. Sounds like he's got all 3 of those markers, and your relationship is lacking intimacy. He does not seem ready to acknowledge there are deeper problems here.
> You deleting all his stuff behind his back was not the greatest marital move, however, if that becomes the issue, then there is continued avoidance and denial of what the real problems are. Don't allow him to use that to now blame you. You can admit you made a mistake, but don't let that distract from the deeper issues.
> If he is open to it, I highly recommend marriage counseling.



No, he doesn't necessarily have a problem. He might just like porn.

Does a man with a 2000 baseball card collection have an addiction?

Does a man who has ten years worth of Sports Illustrated stacked up in his closet have an addiction?

Does a man who has seen every HBO Pay-per-view boxing match have an addiction?

Your guy might just like porn. A lot. It's not uncommon. Every male is different, and we all have varying degrees of sexuality and sexual intensity. Your H's is likely just tuned to enjoy porn. 


The fact is, there is no clinical diagnosis of "porn addiction" or even "sex addiction". There's "Sexual compulsivity" that might manifest itself in porn -- since few wives are understanding enough of the disorder to cater to their husband's compulsiveness -- but there's no such thing as porn addiction. 

You do need marriage counseling, but not for porn. Sounds like there are some serious trust issues at play, here.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Lazarus said:


> Porn is abuse. It commodifies women. If it is done in secret and not shared with significant other or spouse, it usually leads to heartbreak in the end.
> 
> What you have is a husband viewing (in great detail) the flesh and intimate parts of ANOTHER woman and he is climaxing with a cyberbabe, probably younger and not likely to entertain him long term in real life and all of this is happening in YOUR home!
> 
> ...


He's not cheating. He's watching porn. Men watch porn, in every human culture, in every human society. It's a human universal. Heck, even when the penalty is death in their society, men still watch porn.

So the "porn problem" isn't his problem. It's a problem of acceptance. Porn is a natural and useful expression of masculine sexuality, and the only way a woman will come to terms with it is by understanding it or denying it. Attempting to force 150,000 years of human sexual evolution into the neat little box of monogamy and matrimony is not just impossible, it's foolish. And trying to shame him out of it? 

Quickest way to divorce. Or an affair. Or both. The line "My wife just doesn't understand me" is the motto of the male mid-life crisis for a reason. You can understand him or you can divorce him, but asking him to give up porn is unreasonable and ultimately doomed.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

trey69 said:


> You are welcome to google porn addiction.


You can google anything. You can google UFOs and get a million hits. Doesn't mean that UFOs exist. Porn addiction doesn't exist, just sexual compulsivity. If it's a real mental illness, then get it diagnosed by a professional. If it isn't, then start dealing with your problems.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> @Grayson
> Good advice. But that only works when BOTH people are willing to do that. I have been very vocal about the lack of sex in our marriage. After a while, when there is no change, I start to see you don't care.
> 
> RE: *Everything going on....why would I be honest with someone, who can't be honest with me? *So, there is also another problem, I guess. We will both be a stand still until...? I already want out of this pretend marriage because I see we can't be honest with each.


:lol: Why should he have sex with you, if you have been incredibly dishonest and cheated on him?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Allow me to present an alternate view. If my wife deleted my porn, or even asked me to delete my porn, I'd be pissed off, resentful, and hurt. Why? Because my porn stash is one of my most private, intimate, personal things about my sexuality, and such an overtly aggressive action would indicate SERIOUS problems, including trust issues, in my marriage.
> 
> If you have a problem with it, discuss it with your husband, sure. Explore the problem in detail. Work it out. But what you did was controlling, invasive, and rude, not to mention condescending. Shall he now have the right to go through all of your entertainment media and edit at his discretion?
> 
> You treated him like a naughty schoolboy, not a man.



Not sure why you quoted me, I'm not the OP.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Sounds like you both have some issues that need dealing with. His porn issue might be his escape or how he feels he can cope or not cope with the affair. Perhaps he isn't over it yet. Although he deffo needs to communicate to you what is exactly going on. Getting lost in porn world isn't solving one thing in the marriage

Also people keep talking about how porn is ok all men do it,etc, or whatever. Thats not even the real issue here. The bottom line is, right now he seems to be preferring something on a screen than being with his wife, a real person. For whatever reason, and that reason is what needs to be found out and addressed. Whether its an addiction, or him trying to ease the hurt from the affair or whatever. Bottom line he isn;t dealing with anything. I don't think its about someone looking at porn from time to time, I get that, I think its more about why he feels the need to prefer it over his wife.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Mrs. In Love..But said:


> @Grayson
> Good advice. But that only works when BOTH people are willing to do that. I have been very vocal about the lack of sex in our marriage. After a while, when there is no change, I start to see you don't care.


I'm going to be blunt, here, because it's seeming more and more like you're asking for advice to give yourself an "out"...to allow you to toss up your hands and say, "See? I've tried it all. Time to head 'em up and move 'em out."

So, in "being very vocal," were you talking WITH him or AT him? Were you trying to get to the root of the problem, or were you simply griping at him and telling him he needed to do it?

And, maybe you're right...maybe he DOESN'T care anymore. As long as you both just futz around with your little middle-school type games of (not) communicating, you'll never know. 



> RE: Everything going on....why would I be honest with someone, who can't be honest with me?


Among any number of other reasons, perhaps to show that you're willing to put all the proverbial cards on the table and figure out where the two of you are going from here? See, this is why I'm starting to think your appeals for advice aren't in order to repair your relationship, but to find a way out of it that will absolve you of any culpability and allow you to move on without feeling a degree of guilt: every suggestion you're given results in a response that is a variation on, "Nope...not gonna happen. HE [insert excuse here]."



> So, there is also another problem, I guess. We will both be a stand still until...? I already want out of this pretend marriage because I see we can't be honest with each.


And there it is. Honesty is a two-way street. And, to mix metaphors, SOMEone has to take the first step. You say his viewing of porn began before you cheated, and since he doesn't know you did, that the current state can't possibly be a result of your affair. Let me tell you from first-hand knowledge...he almost certainly knows that SOMETHING is or was up with you. Not coming clean with him is building a wall, and creating a self-perpetuating cycle for both of you. You're not being honest with him, but you're mad he's not being honest with you. The question you asked earlier works, both ways, you know...you don't want to be honest with him because he's not being honest with you...why would you expect him to be honest with you when you're not being honest with him?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> He's not cheating. He's watching porn. Men watch porn, in every human culture, in every human society. It's a human universal. Heck, even when the penalty is death in their society, men still watch porn.
> 
> So the "porn problem" isn't his problem. It's a problem of acceptance. Porn is a natural and useful expression of masculine sexuality, and the only way a woman will come to terms with it is by understanding it or denying it. Attempting to force 150,000 years of human sexual evolution into the neat little box of monogamy and matrimony is not just impossible, it's foolish. And trying to shame him out of it?
> 
> Quickest way to divorce. Or an affair. Or both. The line "My wife just doesn't understand me" is the motto of the male mid-life crisis for a reason. You can understand him or you can divorce him, but asking him to give up porn is unreasonable and ultimately doomed.


So if she decided to take up drinking because it's normal and natural and has been around for thousands of years, that would be okay? If he didn't like it she would be right in telling him tough? She has a problem with it and it is causing issues in the marriage. So he should just continue with his business, her feelings be damned? Quickest way to a divorce? Turn to porn and ignore his wife's feelings. It will make her not want him sexually anymore, turn away from him and eventually leave him....but hey, he still has his porn so all is good, right? My wife doesn't understand me? Uh, let's flip that around a bit. My wife doesn't understand that I am going to continue to do something that is hurtful to her and she doesn't understand that I don't care about her feelings in this matter. He sounds like a gem.


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

"But because I had the balls to actually do something about getting my needs meet---I am in the wrong."

BRAVO....YOU GOT BALLS!

No dear, we do not support men or woman cheating on this forum no matter what the reason.

We FULLY support divorce if marriage issues cannot be resolved......including marital sex issues.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

bluesky said:


> "But because I had the balls to actually do something about getting my needs meet---I am in the wrong."
> 
> BRAVO....YOU GOT BALLS!
> 
> ...


I 100% agree with this. Reading her post though, it does sound like he preferred porn to her and she justified her cheating because of such. Being neglected/ignored. It doesn't make her actions right in the slightest. It does give me pause though that there are so many men out there who think porn is no big deal. For those wives who have issues with it, it is a big deal. Now, turning to somebody else I will never condone. Sadly, I do understand her mind set a bit though. She feels he already turned to somebody/something else, so she did it too. Is it right? No. Can I understand it a bit? Yes.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Him looking at porn, OK.
Him not coming to an agreement about the porn and/or communicating it effectively with his wife, not OK.
Him looking at it at the expense of time with his wife or as a substitution for sex with his wife, not OK.
Her invading his privacy, not OK.
Her cheating, not OK.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

Well . . . I find that sex happens as a consequence or positive emotional stability first. You must make the bed using consideration and tenderness before hoping to employ it!!!


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

I wonder if it is bad to just go and get your kick if she's uncooperative about your needs. I don't know, maybe if it was understood bu t not necessarily advertised, although this may trigger resentment and insecurity depending on the trust factors.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I think that if the LD spouse was OK with having an LD, was not going to change and agreed to opening up the marriage, it is OK. I would find it for free though, I am too cheap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> So if she decided to take up drinking because it's normal and natural and has been around for thousands of years, that would be okay? If he didn't like it she would be right in telling him tough? She has a problem with it and it is causing issues in the marriage. So he should just continue with his business, her feelings be damned? Quickest way to a divorce? Turn to porn and ignore his wife's feelings. It will make her not want him sexually anymore, turn away from him and eventually leave him....but hey, he still has his porn so all is good, right? My wife doesn't understand me? Uh, let's flip that around a bit. My wife doesn't understand that I am going to continue to do something that is hurtful to her and she doesn't understand that I don't care about her feelings in this matter. He sounds like a gem.


It would be one thing if sexuality was like drinking. It's not. Asking a man to stop watching porn and masturbating is like asking a woman to stop menstruating. She might be able to go a few weeks, but . . . 

But what if menstruation hurt her husband's feelings? What if she didn't really want to stop menstruating, even though it made her husband not want sex with her anymore and turn away and eventually leave her? Whose fault would the divorce be? The wife's, for her unwillingness and inability to stop the natural course of nature, or the husband for being so unreasonable about it?

That's the problem, see. The anti-porn/anti-masturbation crowd want to see this like it's a choice, when the fact is that masturbation and porn are essential parts of male sexuality. It's not like drinking -- intoxicants are also a human universal, of course, but the two are not comparable. You can put this in terms of feelings and relationships and such, but when it comes down to it it's merely a method of control. If a man isn't prepared top jump through a woman's hoops for the possibility of sex in a monogamous relationship -- not sex, just the possibility of sex, and probably unsatisfying, mediocre sex at best -- then porn and masturbation are his only relief. But a woman's power in a relationship is threatened when she can't command the complete sexual attention of a man, and masturbation and a porn are a threat to her control. 

By having a hissy because her husband would rather wank off a quick one than spend possibly days trying to get her in the right place/right time/right mood, the woman is exerting her sexual control over the relationship. In some cases this can be downright abusive, with chastity belts and "arousal alarms" and other humiliations. But at it's essence, it's a woman's attempt to control the relationship through her man's sexuality, and therefore her man. It's one thing if the man is a total beta who's willingly and knowingly agreed to such a thing before the wedding. But most men don't realize that a woman expects you to hand over the keys to your balls on your wedding night.

I guarantee you, if the situation was reversed and the issue was menstruation, then the arguments would turn around in some interesting ways. But both issues are physical, hormonal, and outside of our control. Oh, you can stop masturbating, stop watching porn, and accept whatever meager scraps your wife deigns to throw to you, sexually, but the desire will never leave. And it doesn't make you love your wife more -- on the contrary, despite whatever the poor sap says to her to keep his precious nookie, he starts resenting her at an amazingly deep level. Sometimes so deep he doesn't realize it himself, until it slips out in some other, uncontrollable way. And that's almost never a good thing.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> It would be one thing if sexuality was like drinking. It's not. Asking a man to stop watching porn and masturbating is like asking a woman to stop menstruating. She might be able to go a few weeks, but . . .
> 
> But what if menstruation hurt her husband's feelings? What if she didn't really want to stop menstruating, even though it made her husband not want sex with her anymore and turn away and eventually leave her? Whose fault would the divorce be? The wife's, for her unwillingness and inability to stop the natural course of nature, or the husband for being so unreasonable about it?
> 
> ...


I am NOT suggesting that masturbation is unhealthy. Not in the slightest.  What I am saying is that porn isn't a bodily function. Comparing porn watching to a woman's period is laughable. A period is a bodily function. Jenna Jameson is not. The OP in the case was being denied sex in favor of her husband's porn watching. Would you agree that having sex with your wife is natural and passing her up for porn is not? Can you not see how his habit hurts her? Mediocre sex? What would make it such? Is it possible that the OP's husband sees things in porn that he now has to have and she for whatever reason is unwilling to do it so in turn he views it as unsatisfying? If you look at porn and how it has changed in the last 20 years, yes, the envelope has been pushed and pushed. There is an entire generation of young men who have been raised now to think it is their right to do these things with women. Perhaps she doesn't like it, would that make her a bad lover or rather would that make him having unrealistic expectations? Not sure where you were going with this but to me, it sounds like YOU prefer porn over sex with your wife. It sounds like you are projecting that feeling like this should be some God given right that men watch porn, their wives feelings be darned.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

Masturbation is one thing... 
Pornography is another...

What did people do before the invention of pornography?
I am sure both genders found a way to get sexual gratification through masturbation w/o the assistance of a visual aide.
Masturbation might be a healthy need and a god given right...but I really don't think the viewing of pornography necessarily goes hand in hand with that.

i believe it is a slippery slope While some people can keep their pornography use separate from their sexuality within their marital bed... many can not. 

It often will become a substitute for actual intimacy in a marriage. Don't believe me? Just read some threads on this forum about the subject. You hear a lot of the same story over and over.

_"My husband never wants to have sex w/ me anymore... I recently discovered his porn cache, could the two be related?" _
_
"My wife takes too long to get in the mood, I don't see the problem with resorting to internet porn if getting her to feel sexual is more trouble than it is worth... these women on the web are always ready to go and they don't judge me if my performance is slightly sub standard"_


And while you can argue that it is not the same as cheating... for many women who feel as though their husbands have given up on them sexually, and are depressed because they are living in a sexless marriage because of their husbands porn hobby - it is easy for them to draw the conclusion that their husband is_ in fact _cheating on them with millions of women on the internet - at any given time of day. 

I have been trying to stay out of this thread because I feel very strongly about this issue and how it affects MY marriage.

Not to mention it has been debated ad nausea on this forum...

There is the faction of women who believe porn is immoral and reprehensible.... and the women who think they are uptight and should get over it.
There are plenty of men who believe it is their god given right to look at whatever and jerk off to whatever they want..... and the men who think that these guys should respect their spouses enough to refrain from watching porn if it hurts their relationship and the self esteem of the woman they supposedly love.

There are a lot of people of both genders who have no problem with it- could take it or leave it and it works for them... they can even include it in their fore play.

No matter which camp you fall into - this issue always leads to a stalemate of a debate.

On this forum, I have learned that my experiences are mine, and while I can share what has worked for me and my marriage, it really doesn't seem to make any difference to anyone else- because their marriage is their's and the way their spouse might react is probably different than how mine did.


I just had to ask the question above...
Why the insistence on pornography?
I personally think masturbation is fine...but I don't really feel comfortable looking outside of my marriage for stimulus. 

I personally don't think it is absolutely necessary for anyone to NEED porn to get off if you NEED to.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

LonelyGal, you actually bring up a good point I have not mentioned. Pornography has been around since before modern civilization. The style and media form of porn has evolved over time. From clay ornaments, to graphic art, erotic Victorian literature, to pictures with the invention of the camera and now to film with the motion camera. 

I am sure if cavemen/women were not so busy inventing the wheel and fire they would have figured out a good porn media as well.

I do agree that porn should never be a substitute to a willing lover who takes good care of his/her body, health and self image. That said, generally a sexually confident and healthy lover will not be threatened by porn and may in fact embrace it. 

If a partner has cut of the other from sex, I don't see an issue with using porn even if the refusing spouse disapproves. Not a healthy situation for either partner though. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> Masturbation is one thing...
> Pornography is another...
> 
> What did people do before the invention of pornography?


Actually, porn has been around since the dawn of humanity. It's found among the earliest cave paintings, from when we were just barely sapient. It is, quite literally, as old as human kind.



Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> I am sure both genders found a way to get sexual gratification through masturbation w/o the assistance of a visual aide.
> Masturbation might be a healthy need and a god given right...but I really don't think the viewing of pornography necessarily goes hand in hand with that.


You're right. For women.

For men, it's another story. Men's desire for porn -- in a number of forms, but primarily visual -- is universal, it's instinctual, and it's natural. For men, viewing "nekkid wimmin" fulfills essentially the same function as women talking about the pros and cons of various prospective suitors. It's a way to develop and maintain the complex and sophisticated system of judgement necessary in selecting and maintaining a mate. Depriving him of porn is essentially the same as him forbidding you from discussing any of your female friends' boyfriends/husbands/relationships in any capacity, ever again.



Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> i believe it is a slippery slope While some people can keep their pornography use separate from their sexuality within their marital bed... many can not.


You misunderstand: pornography use is a vital part OF a man's sexuality. And it's the same sexuality in or out of the marital bed. You can't expect to neuter him by forbidding porn and then act like a wild man in bed. Ain't gonna happen. In fact, the opposite is the case. You forbid a man his porn, the shame and resentment he feels by being judged by the person he's invested the most emotional capital in is going to kill his desire for you. Instead of the helpful partner who loves him enough to get him off, you are (in his subconscious) the forbidding matronly figure who dictates the rules about his willy. Hard to find a lot of positive passion in that case.




Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> It often will become a substitute for actual intimacy in a marriage. Don't believe me? Just read some threads on this forum about the subject. You hear a lot of the same story over and over.
> 
> _"My husband never wants to have sex w/ me anymore... I recently discovered his porn cache, could the two be related?" _
> _
> ...


Oh, I see it . . . but I also see a PROFOUND lack of understanding of male sexuality in relation to the subject. 

And I think you'll find that in those cases where a husband prefers porn to his wife, there are ALWAYS other factors. The woman may not know or understand what they are, claiming that "I don't know what he's thinking", or seeing it in terms of "me v. them", but taking either attitude is basically abandoning the effort to correct the "problem". Porn isn't the problem, it's a symptom. And if porn seems to be the problem to you, then you are missing something. Only a tiny, tiny minority of men who watch porn are diagnosable as "sexually compulsive" (there is no clinical diagnosis for "porn addiction"), so it stands to reason that the problem isn't the declining mental health/morals of the menfolk in our society. The problem is cultural, sociological, and psychological. 



I have been trying to stay out of this thread because I feel very strongly about this issue and how it affects MY marriage.

Not to mention it has been debated ad nausea on this forum...

There is the faction of women who believe porn is immoral and reprehensible.... and the women who think they are uptight and should get over it.
There are plenty of men who believe it is their god given right to look at whatever and jerk off to whatever they want..... and the men who think that these guys should respect their spouses enough to refrain from watching porn if it hurts their relationship and the self esteem of the woman they supposedly love.

There are a lot of people of both genders who have no problem with it- could take it or leave it and it works for them... they can even include it in their fore play.

No matter which camp you fall into - this issue always leads to a stalemate of a debate.

On this forum, I have learned that my experiences are mine, and while I can share what has worked for me and my marriage, it really doesn't seem to make any difference to anyone else- because their marriage is their's and the way their spouse might react is probably different than how mine did.


I just had to ask the question above...
Why the insistence on pornography?
I personally think masturbation is fine...but I don't really feel comfortable looking outside of my marriage for stimulus. 

I personally don't think it is absolutely necessary for anyone to NEED porn to get off if you NEED to.[/QUOTE]


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ian,
Your comparisons just leave me baffled. "Porn is a normal bodily fuction like menstration is to a woman" and now you say that "Depriving him of porn is essentially the same as him forbidding you from discussing any of your female friends' boyfriends/husbands/relationships in any capacity, ever again."
How in the world are porn and interpersonal relationships the same? Porn is the exact opposite of that. Detached and alone.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Ian,
> Your comparisons just leave me baffled. "Porn is a normal bodily fuction like menstration is to a woman" and now you say that "Depriving him of porn is essentially the same as him forbidding you from discussing any of your female friends' boyfriends/husbands/relationships in any capacity, ever again."
> How in the world are porn and interpersonal relationships the same? Porn is the exact opposite of that. Detached and alone.


That's a terribly, terribly feminine perspective on the subject.

Porn is fantasy material -- by that token, anyone who watches a soap opera is doing so because of unfulfilled needs in their emotional life. Well, maybe . . . but the fact is, to men porn plays a very complex and sophisticated role in our lives. When used properly and in a good relationship (which by definition presupposes that there are no deeper underlying problems that are manifesting themselves sexually) porn not only provides erotic stimulus that keeps testosterone levels elevated (leading to more sex with his partner) but it allows him to mentally experiment in a wide variety of sexual ways without judgement, recrimination, or consequence. That allows him to continuously hone his objective standards for mate selection and evaluation. 

It's not that he's overtly comparing you to these other women, it's that he's reminding himself of the variety available in the universe and he's re-affirming his choice through fantasy comparisons with idealized versions of himself. Just as women like to compare their relationships to other couples' relationships as a means of fitness testing, men like to "fitness test" their wives sexually in their fantasy realm. 

To a woman, your relationship is a success if you aren't fighting, no one is cheating, your kids (if any) are happy, healthy, and doing well in school, your husband is attentive and adoring and occasionally indulgent -- and the more you hear about your sister's disastrous third marriage and her kids by four different daddies, the better you feel about any perceived shortcomings in your own. It might not be the on-demand romance and affection you imagine an ideal relationship to be, but you have a good basis for comparison. You're a success, in other words, if the relationship stacks up against other relationships, real and idealized. Sex is a part of that, but in most women's minds it's a relatively minor part, more of a happy side-effect of a good relationship than anything else. More importantly to most women (and women in aggregate) is a man's ability to provide for her -- "take care of her" -- financially and emotionally providing her security. Of course not every woman is wildly materialistic, but only through discussion with her peers and immersion in the popular female culture will she learn the degree of her success or failure as a woman. 

But not guys. Guys rate their personal success and the success of the relationship based on very different criteria, and sex takes a much more prominent role in that, either positively or negatively. A guy married to a supermodel can put up with lousy sex because, hey, she's a supermodel, and every other man in the room is envious of you. That makes you an objective success in Guy Land. Or you can put up with a homely woman if she's caring and nurturing and adoring and puts out like a fiend just the way you like it. Either way, you're a winner: sexual attractiveness = high status mate, sexual availability/experience = high value mate.

So where does porn come in? Several places. First, you need that personal validation that you get by pleasuring yourself -- literally, loving yourself. The fantasy women in front of you while you're doing it are utterly free from expectations of you -- they therefore flatter your sense of self-importance and self love. They never say no, they never complain or whine about what other women's husbands are doing, they never want you to take a shower first, etc. etc. Just as the big strong independent millionaire falls in love with the heroine despite her fierce independence in a romance novel appeals to the sense of self-flattery and idealism to a woman, the buxom, sexually-available and terribly eager to please (and be pleased by) porn babes on the screen are an idealized version of his subjective standards. You can try to take that idealized version away, physically, by removing the porn, but it's still going to be there in his head, like it or not. He needs to feel like he's attractive to more women than just his wife (at least in his head) particularly if he isn't getting loved the way he likes from her. He also needs to be able to maintain his pre-mating mate selection matrix. Literally, porn helps him judge women physically, which is the primary way men judge women at first meeting.

So porn, to a guy, isn't the "exact opposite" of being in a relationship, it's an adjunct to it. Just like you might shop all day for a pair of shoes and eventually decide you like the black pumps you've had forever anyway, your husband likes to shop around, see what's out there, imagine himself with a particular woman, appreciate her physical attributes, her social value, her status . . . and then be utterly thankful that he married who he did, because she might not be a supermodel or a porn star but she knows how to treat him right. By depriving a man of that outlet you are forcing him to make the daily decision to stay in a relationship with you without even the illusion of choice, which leads to feelings of being trapped and oftentimes resentments. Left untended, they usually manifest in a hotel bar out at the airport with him telling traveling businesswomen how his wife just doesn't understand him.

Does that make sense?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> That's a terribly, terribly feminine perspective on the subject.
> 
> Porn is fantasy material -- by that token, anyone who watches a soap opera is doing so because of unfulfilled needs in their emotional life. Well, maybe . . . but the fact is, to men porn plays a very complex and sophisticated role in our lives. When used properly and in a good relationship (which by definition presupposes that there are no deeper underlying problems that are manifesting themselves sexually) porn not only provides erotic stimulus that keeps testosterone levels elevated (leading to more sex with his partner) but it allows him to mentally experiment in a wide variety of sexual ways without judgement, recrimination, or consequence. That allows him to continuously hone his objective standards for mate selection and evaluation.
> 
> ...


"Hone his objective standards for mate selection"? Uh, we are talking about already married men. Are they out their looking for a replacement? He needs to feel like he is attractive to more than just his wife? So jerking off to porn makes him feel attractive? You do realize these women can't see you guys, right?  I would be forcing someone to make a daily decision to be with me without the illusion of choice"? Didn't he have a choice? He could decide to stay single. If a guy needs porn that badly and liken it to what you did, why even bother getting married?


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

While it may sound a bit harsh at times, Ian is spot on, the raw truth of a male. 

If a woman can just accept this as the way he is built, and embrace it, it would do such a wonderful service to both of them. 

I do understand that the core issue with women an porn is that they feel that they can not live up to the high standards of those women. That it will somehow take away from their attractiveness to their husband and their sex life. The thing is that it does JUST THE OPPOSITE!

In some cases you can see this in women as well. I know my wife was not very sexual until she started reading porn and eventually looking at it. This ignited the sexual flame inside and put our sex life into overdrive. I think if you hear from the women on this board who have come to accept and embrace porn (the depiction of erotic behavior intended to cause sexual excitement) that it has done nothing but wonderful things to their sex life.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> "Hone his objective standards for mate selection"? Uh, we are talking about already married men. Are they out their looking for a replacement? He needs to feel like he is attractive to more than just his wife? So jerking off to porn makes him feel attractive? You do realize these women can't see you guys, right?  I would be forcing someone to make a daily decision to be with me without the illusion of choice"? Didn't he have a choice? He could decide to stay single. If a guy needs porn that badly and liken it to what you did, why even bother getting married?


(*sigh*) You see? You missed my point.

When you got married, did you stop trying to be attractive? You were married, after all. He bought the cow. He was committed. Why on earth did you bother with makeup, leg shaving, and all the other indignities women subject themselves to in the name of beauty and attraction when you were already married?

You didn't. Your mate selection matrix was still very much intact, even though you were in a committed relationship. Why? Because we are genetically programmed to constantly evaluate our relationships according to both objective and subjective standards. You keep putting on makeup and buying clothes, he keeps looking at women. Both of you are trying to keep your mate selection matrix intact because to do otherwise is to put your relationship and your personal sense of self-worth in jeopardy. If you stop dressing attractively, you stop feeling attractive. If he stops desiring sex with a number of females, then he stops feeling attractive. It's not enough that he finds you attractive, or you'd wear nothing but what pleased him the most, despite your own sense of style or propriety. Just like it's not enough for him to feel as if he desires you, alone, because that would diminish his masculinity by establishing himself as "no threat" to other men's wives (theoretically) and unable to be attractive to anyone but his wife. He needs to feel that animal attraction to all women if he's going to be able to love you fully . . . but if you make him feel guilty all the time, it's like him shaming you for "dressing up" in a theoretical attempt to attract other men. 

He knows you dress to feel attractive. He watches porn to feel attraction -- and by extension, attractive.

Which would you prefer? A husband who is with you out of a sheer sense of obligation and nothing else, or a husband who is wildly horny for all women but who has voluntarily limited to realizing those desires solely with you, because you make him feel so good about himself?

See? Male sexual psychology isn't hard. You just have to try to understand our perspective.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

hubby said:


> While it may sound a bit harsh at times, Ian is spot on, the raw truth of a male.
> 
> If a woman can just accept this as the way he is built, and embrace it, it would do such a wonderful service to both of them.
> 
> ...



But first they must understand it. And by and large they don't: most women insist on evaluating their man's sexuality by feminine standards, and that's a gross disservice to the men in their lives. Too many women are too willing to write off a perfectly good guy because they make no attempt to understand his behavior outside of the narrow confines of their own limited experience. I might be harsh in how I present it, but that's a "male" strategy. Women are the ones who obscure, protect and equivocate about such things. 

Ask a guy what he's thinking and he says "sex", he's thinking about sex.

As a woman what she's thinking, and she'll say JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT "SEX" if she's thinking about sex. It's up to the guy in her life to figure out that she's thinking about sex from all the subtle clues she's putting out, and if he doesn't pick up on them she feels rejected, gets pissed off and the poor guy has no idea what just happened. 

I'm very understanding about the female ideal of sexuality, and female sexual psychology in general. But I'm also adamant that men should stick up for their best interests and their sexuality, without shame or guilt. I'm all for equality between the sexes, but that means true equality: women have no more right to dictate men's sexuality to them than men do to women.

And yes, porn is part of that.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Apparently I don't understand and you know, that's okay....I am not sure I want to. You wrote that I dress up to look good for him and he checks out other women to feel good to himself. You think there is something wrong with that picture? Just a tad? Le sigh, why do I even bother then? That's it, let the legs go and save money on makeup. I think in my next life I will be a switch hitter.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

And some insight as to why women don't like their men looking at porn....you guys literally think about putting yourself in the scene. You want to be there. Do you think most women think that awesome? Heck read here long enough and you come across husbands who even say they think of porn scenes while having sex with their wives! And you don't think this is a problem? You can justify it all you want but it doesn't make it right.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

My joke here!

I never thought porn is only for men, I thought both men and women can watch porn. A painting, a movie, a story, both men and women can enjoy it. 

Only by coming to TAM, I found out that some western women are so threatened by porn. 

So what does women do which make men feel threatened?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> My joke here!
> 
> I never thought porn is only for men, I thought both men and women can watch porn. A painting, a movie, a story, both men and women can enjoy it.
> 
> ...


Shop. Or stare a little to long at the hot Brother in Law.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Apparently I don't understand and you know, that's okay....I am not sure I want to. You wrote that I dress up to look good for him and he checks out other women to feel good to himself. You think there is something wrong with that picture? Just a tad? Le sigh, why do I even bother then? That's it, let the legs go and save money on makeup. I think in my next life I will be a switch hitter.


No, actually. What _is_ wrong with that picture? Few women are trying to look good "for him", as much as look good in general because it maintains their social position. Women don't make themselves attractive to their husbands, they make themselves attractive and hope their husbands notice. If our wives were dressing for us, then y'all would all be wearing garters and stockings 24/7. And would you really want a man who didn't feel the slightest stirring of desire for anyone but you? I think when faced with the sad reality of that, you wouldn't be very happy.

Well, what's your ideal? His testicles in a jar and a doting expression on his face while he passively follows you around?

If you don't let men be men, then why bother with them at all?


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

Humans have evolved way past needing to act on our primal needs - we may still have the urges but we also have the ability to make informed decisions as to whether to act on the urge or not.

We don't run to find the nearest tree or nice patch of grass to pee or poop behind when we feel the urge to go (we use toilets): we no longer eat with our hands, we use cutlery etc. These are choices that we make everyday regarding our "primal" urges.

I find it interesting that out of all the primal urges we've needed to evolve through to be part of society today, that the only one that can't be changed is man's need to source out the playing field. I wonder why that is.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> No, actually. What _is_ wrong with that picture? Few women are trying to look good "for him", as much as look good in general because it maintains their social position. Women don't make themselves attractive to their husbands, they make themselves attractive and hope their husbands notice. If our wives were dressing for us, then y'all would all be wearing garters and stockings 24/7. And would you really want a man who didn't feel the slightest stirring of desire for anyone but you? I think when faced with the sad reality of that, you wouldn't be very happy.
> 
> Well, what's your ideal? His testicles in a jar and a doting expression on his face while he passively follows you around?
> 
> If you don't let men be men, then why bother with them at all?


There should be a happy medium between testicles in a jar vs. ignoring your wife because of your porn preference. I should have stated upfront that I watch porn with my hubby. I would however be hurt if he did it behind my back for the reasons I stated. The reason I have an issue with men and porn is that if you hang out here long enough, you will see that men use porn as a substitute for their wives. Heck, you yourself even alluded to your sex life being mundane but porn is exciting and new. That's doesn't make us women feel all the awesome. 

Also, the phrase men being men get's under my skin. That phrase has been used to justify all kinds of bad behavior.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Brennan said:


> And some insight as to why women don't like their men looking at porn....you guys literally think about putting yourself in the scene. You want to be there. Do you think most women think that awesome? Heck read here long enough and you come across husbands who even say they think of porn scenes while having sex with their wives! And you don't think this is a problem? You can justify it all you want but it doesn't make it right.


Well, Brennan, I have to say Ian is right. Let me start by saying this. I look at porn a lot, pretty much every day. This is not because I don't get any, I get plenty, almost every day. Having sex with my gf turns me on. I always think about how great she was in bed tha last time. This in turn makes me wanna watch porn cause I just née to get rid of this tension. While I watch porn, it is not abou the woman on screen, it is about the act. I do not want sex with her, and I dare say most men who have their needs met by their SO don't want to. 

Now, seeing this act is a fantasy, it's ideal, it is what you think of in your head when thinking about sex. When I see this act, I even think about my girl, that she is doing that for me. Now, I don't take this back into real life (sometimes I do get inspiration to try new stuff) and just thinking about her having sex turns me on again. Result, rest of the day I desire my girl > always In mood > she likes that I desire her so much > she wants it more > have sex more often > I look at porn > loop. 

Now, what if she said, I don't want you to look at porn. That would be her basically telling me not to be myself > guilt > resentment > would be less interested. 

Again just to state this. I am not addicted. During stressful periods I tend to not look at porn as I have other things to do and sex is lower on the list. I masturbate less, but also get a lower drive (always above twice a week though). This always makes her feel as if there is something wrong because I desire her less. But when those periods are over at work, it flares right back up.

Edit: we have been together for almost 10, never has porn been more important go me then her. And just to be complete, I don't need porn, my imagination also does wonders, takes maybe 2 minutes longer, but works just as good. And she also watches her own porn btw 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

A local talk radio host has, I think, a fairly decent perspective on men's sexual "wiring" in contrast to women's, and I think it can be extended to their views on/use of porn.

His theory is that, for the most part, men are "programmed" to spread their seed as widely as possible...to propagate the species. Women, as the child-bearers, are "programmed" to receive. As human society has developed, and monogamous relationships became the social norm, what I call "spectator sexuality" - porn, cheesecake pictures, etc. - have become more prominent as a means of satisfying that primitive (for want of a better term) hardwired male drive to find as many outlets as possible, while remaining in a monogamous relationship.

And, saying that, yes...there are some who take it too far...some who end up going to the "substitute" instead of their partner. In those cases, I have to agree that this is a symptom, rather than the problem itself. Of course, I feel the same way when someone tries to make music a scapegoat for any heinous act they might commit. As the late Sam Kinison said, listening to "Helter Skelter" didn't set Charles Manson off...he'd have gotten the same "message" listening to the Monkees.

The biggest problem I find where porn is concerned is that it's (generally speaking) so demonized that some women (and men) find it - or any other open expression of sexuality - to be harmful in and of itself, and are thus reluctant to discuss it - and any surrounding issues that may exist - with their partner if that partner does not see it as a bad thing. As with all things, the key is communication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> There should be a happy medium between testicles in a jar vs. ignoring your wife because of your porn preference. I should have stated upfront that I watch porn with my hubby. I would however be hurt if he did it behind my back for the reasons I stated. The reason I have an issue with men and porn is that if you hang out here long enough, you will see that men use porn as a substitute for their wives. Heck, you yourself even alluded to your sex life being mundane but porn is exciting and new. That's doesn't make us women feel all the awesome.


And do you think we feel awesome when we overhear some of the things you say to your girlfriends about men in general? Don't think we don't. You'd be surprised just how hurtful some of those comments are to us. But we accept it as stoically as possible and don't complain about it most of the time, because, y'know, girls will be girls. And if we did complain, then we'd just be whiners in y'all's eyes, which would lower our esteem in your eyes. SO we just sit there, grit our teeth and take all that casual man-bashing, without comment, but we carry the result in our hearts as thoroughly as women carry resentment about porn in theirs. 

I guess part of the problem is that most wives in most marriages rate a solid 4 on the 1-to-10 sexual adventure scale. And if their husbands realize that, they might have to step up their game . . . and who has time for that?



Brennan said:


> Also, the phrase men being men get's under my skin. That phrase has been used to justify all kinds of bad behavior.


Certainly. Poor behavior is poor behavior, and testosterone might explain it but it doesn't justify it. 

But you aren't going to be able to dismiss the essential nature of masculinity so lightly. We're not going to stop being men, nor should we. Nor should we take instruction about our own sexuality from women.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Grayson said:


> A local talk radio host has, I think, a fairly decent perspective on men's sexual "wiring" in contrast to women's, and I think it can be extended to their views on/use of porn.
> 
> His theory is that, for the most part, men are "programmed" to spread their seed as widely as possible...to propagate the species. Women, as the child-bearers, are "programmed" to receive. As human society has developed, and monogamous relationships became the social norm, what I call "spectator sexuality" - porn, cheesecake pictures, etc. - have become more prominent as a means of satisfying that primitive (for want of a better term) hardwired male drive to find as many outlets as possible, while remaining in a monogamous relationship.
> 
> ...



It's actually called Evolutionary Biology, and it's more complicated and sophisticated than that. But it's essentially correct. And it more-or-less worked out fine until the discovery of agriculture. We were just getting a handle on that, culturally speaking, when we got hit with industrialization. Now we're in the post-industrial age with paleolithic drives and completely archaic guidelines for proper sexual behavior.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

surfergirl said:


> Humans have evolved way past needing to act on our primal needs - we may still have the urges but we also have the ability to make informed decisions as to whether to act on the urge or not.
> 
> We don't run to find the nearest tree or nice patch of grass to pee or poop behind when we feel the urge to go (we use toilets): we no longer eat with our hands, we use cutlery etc. These are choices that we make everyday regarding our "primal" urges.
> 
> I find it interesting that out of all the primal urges we've needed to evolve through to be part of society today, that the only one that can't be changed is man's need to source out the playing field. I wonder why that is.


:rofl:I am sorry but I can't hold off on adding this to the list of primal urges and how we've dealt with them evolutionarily :rofl::

A male no longer needs to bash a female on her head and drag her to his cave to fulfill his male animalistic urges. He has porn for that :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Libido killer No 1 is porn surfing men. 

Even if a man thinks his gf or wife doesn´t know about it, she does! 

So men that direct their desire and attention to women on the screen are killing their sex life and hurting their gf or wife, especially if it is hidden away from her and they have their little wanking time secret. 

There is nothing less sexy than a man who is not present. A woman needs to feel desired to give herself.

Porn surfing either leads to gf or wife cheating, or the porn addict man physically cheating on their gf or wife.

If it can't be done in the open, it's cheating and hurting a gf or wife.


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## Star (Dec 6, 2009)

Lazarus said:


> Libido killer No 1 is porn surfing men.
> 
> Even if a man thinks his gf or wife doesn´t know about it, she does!
> 
> ...




I don’t really agree with this sweeping statement “Porn surfing either leads to gf or wife cheating, or the porn addict man physically cheating on their gf or wife. If it can't be done in the open, it's cheating and hurting a gf or wife”.

I think a lot of men view it in secret through fear of repercussion and upsetting their partners/wives or feeling that they are doing something wrong, so in a way they are trying to protect their partner’s feelings and not hurt them by keeping it from them, so it’s kind of a no win situation, damned if you do tell, and damned if you don’t.

I’m a woman and I know how we can sometimes feel threatened/jealous of the females in these films, as they appear to have perfect “Barbie” figures and are usually quite young and attractive, blah, blah, blah and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t feel a little envious of this from time to time BUT honestly, I think that a lot of men view porn just like to see a woman having a good time and enjoying her and her partners body and more importantly enjoying the act/acts of sex/love making.

I think both sexes are similar in that we both want our partners to desire us and show enthusiasm in the bedroom for us and what we do, I could be way off base with this but it’s just my opinion.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Lazarus said:


> Libido killer No 1 is porn surfing men.
> 
> Even if a man thinks his gf or wife doesn´t know about it, she does!
> 
> ...



While I agree that porn shouldn't be hidden, and that men should stand up for their right to watch it, the argument that porn surfing or porn in general leads to infidelity is utterly fallacious. The vast majority of porn consumers are married men, true . . . but only a tiny percentage of them go on to step out on their wives. Actually, the rates of infidelity for porn consumers (as reported by the Great American Sex Survey) are actually lower than non-porn consumers . . . among men.

Sure, porn offers an erotic distraction for men in a marriage. But that just means the ladies have to step up their game a little, doesn't it? Maybe learn a little more about their bodies, learn some new skills, get a little more educated about sexuality in general? And (gasp!) maybe even try to learn a little bit more about men's sexuality than "all men are dogs"?

But a man should never hide his porn from his wife. He shouldn't get rid of it, but he shouldn't hide it. We should be proud of our sexuality, not ashamed.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Star said:


> I don’t really agree with this sweeping statement “Porn surfing either leads to gf or wife cheating, or the porn addict man physically cheating on their gf or wife. If it can't be done in the open, it's cheating and hurting a gf or wife”.
> 
> I think a lot of men view it in secret through fear of repercussion and upsetting their partners/wives or feeling that they are doing something wrong, so in a way they are trying to protect their partner’s feelings and not hurt them by keeping it from them, so it’s kind of a no win situation, damned if you do tell, and damned if you don’t.
> 
> ...


I'm reminded of the reason a friend of mine, married fifteen years, gave for watching porn: "it's nice to see a woman actually enjoy sex for a change." After fifteen years of marriage, his wife still had the "lie back and think of England" approach to sex. Every encounter was a gauntlet of humiliating mediocrity, so fraught with hassle and insecurity that he eventually just stopped trying.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

surfergirl said:


> Humans have evolved way past needing to act on our primal needs - we may still have the urges but we also have the ability to make informed decisions as to whether to act on the urge or not.
> 
> We don't run to find the nearest tree or nice patch of grass to pee or poop behind when we feel the urge to go (we use toilets): we no longer eat with our hands, we use cutlery etc. These are choices that we make everyday regarding our "primal" urges.
> 
> I find it interesting that out of all the primal urges we've needed to evolve through to be part of society today, that the only one that can't be changed is man's need to source out the playing field. I wonder why that is.


:iagree: and VERY WELL SAID.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> Libido killer No 1 is porn surfing men.
> 
> Even if a man thinks his gf or wife doesn´t know about it, she does!
> 
> ...


And THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

The constant surfing of porn desensitizes the man to his SO, she can't possibly compete with the women on the screen, so what has she got to offer?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - PORN, in of itself is not the issue, a SO's addiction to porn is the issue, when he ignores or uses it as a substitute for the loving woman who shares his bed and his life.

And, when they cannot view it in the open (SO knows about it) and discuss it and not go underground and hide it, etc., then it's not right either. IF this is a primal urge and due to biological wiring, then why the NEED to hide it? If it's so accepted and normal for men, then why isn't it all done above board? 

My husband has gone underground with his porn when he discovered that I knew ALL ABOUT IT (like I couldn't find it if I wanted to). And this I fail to understand no matter how many men try to justify it for him. I view my porn in the wide and open, don't hide it, don't erase my history on the computer, etc. Why the difference? Because he knows that I'm not using porn as a substitute for him and he knows that HE IS using it as a substitute for me - that's the difference.

And BTW - I'm actually a 10 in adventure in the bedroom - so that excuse isn't valid either.

I would be extremely interested in hearing other justifications for why he has to use porn all the time and reject me just as frequently - I wouldn't have a single issue with his porn usage and/or whether he's underground with it or not, just as long as he was paying attention to me - and he's not - so I see it as a problem - you treat me like your wife and lover and I'll act like your wife and lover - you treat me as though I'm disposable, then you've got problems buddy.

I don't personally view porn as cheating, but I think you come pretty close when you're viewing live sex webcams and doing live sex chats - because you're actually interacting with these people live, you can watch them, ask them for specific acts and talk to them. This is way MORE than viewing still pics and watching pre-made videos.

Why do MEN think that they are the only ones that enjoy sex, have primal urges and need frequent release? Come on...you have a lot of women that fit that stereotype also - you guys don't own it all by yourselves.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Apparently there must be something wrong with me. I have looked at my share of porn and so have I with my wife to spice things up from time to time. However, I never felt the need to want to watch it alot. Does it mean I have a low sex drive, not hardly. For me, I found there were times I felt the more I watched it the more my sex drive became lower. Was it the type of porn I was viewing, doubt it. Plus I thin I would feel I was trying to avoid whatever real issues might be going on. I wouldn't want to do that to my wife or the marriage. 

I get people watch porn at times, I don't get it as a replacement. I do think it can be used and often is a replacement. I'm not talking for fantasy. I'm also not talking about using it because someone isn't getting their needs met sexually although I know people do that. 

I'm talking about people who do not want to deal with whatever issue(s) are going on in the marriage. The "escape" really leads you no where. Because when you shut your computer off, turn off the dvd player or close that magazine, you're still left with unresolved issues. Good you got your rocks off to a picture, lovely, good for you. You still were no closer to connecting with a spouse or partner and trying to resolve things. 

To me its no different than alcohol, drugs etc, its an escape, a way to NOT deal with anything. BUT, you can't fix what you don't acknowledge.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

trey69 said:


> Apparently there must be something wrong with me. I have looked at my share of porn and so have I with my wife to spice things up from time to time. However, I never felt the need to want to watch it alot. Does it mean I have a low sex drive, not hardly. For me, I found there were times I felt the more I watched it the more my sex drive became lower. Was it the type of porn I was viewing, doubt it. Plus I thin I would feel I was trying to avoid whatever real issues might be going on. I wouldn't want to do that to my wife or the marriage.
> 
> I get people watch porn at times, I don't get it as a replacement. I do think it can be used and often is a replacement. I'm not talking for fantasy. I'm also not talking about using it because someone isn't getting their needs met sexually although I know people do that.
> 
> ...


:iagree: And without that acknowledgement, you continue to erode away the foundation of your relationship picture-by-picture and video-by-video.

We keep talking about manning-up, well how about manning-up and admitting that you're addicted to porn, that you ignore your SO, that you are possibly destroying her self-esteem and confidence, that it's quite possible that SHE isn't the issue, you are - how about manning up to that?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Well what gets me is the people who sometimes miss the point. They will say but "ALL men watch it...or there is nothing wrong with it. or they watch it because they aren't getting any" etc". That is not even my point. 

Its fine if you watch it a times. I'm not even talking about men or women not being able to watch it. I'm referring to those who watch it on a constant basis, who refuse to try and connect with their spouse and get to the root of the problem. They use the constant use of porn as a way to NOT deal with anything.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

trey69 said:


> Well what gets me is the people who sometimes miss the point. They will say but "ALL men watch it...or there is nothing wrong with it. or they watch it because they aren't getting any" etc". That is not even my point.
> 
> Its fine if you watch it a times. I'm not even talking about men or women not being able to watch it. I'm referring to those who watch it on a constant basis, who refuse to try and connect with their spouse and get to the root of the problem. They use the constant use of porn as a way to NOT deal with anything.


:iagree: You're right on target. PORN is not the issue, the issue is what PORN represents in your relationship - I've said this so many times I feel like a broken record.

Do you use porn to enhance your relationship?

Do you use porn to get relief when your SO is not available or not in the mood?

Or, do you use porn to escape from your relationship?

Do you use porn to substitute for the SO in your relationship?

These are the questions that should be asked, not about PORN being a male-thing, primal, a way to release build-up, etc. These are all biological in nature.

The questions above are psychological in nature and maybe that's why they get avoided - this would force some to deal with their innermost feelings and be honest and THAT is truly what they're are afraid of.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> :iagree: You're right on target. PORN is not the issue, the issue is what PORN represents in your relationship - I've said this so many times I feel like a broken record.
> 
> Do you use porn to enhance your relationship?
> 
> ...



I thought you might be interested in a message I got from a man on another forum about this topic. Maybe it will provide some insight, particularly married men and porn. I fixed most of the punctuation errors to make it more readable. It at least should help explain some of the feelings some men have about the subject:

My wife and I have been married for 18 years, together for 22. We got married in college and the first year our sex life was great. All I had to do was look at her and she’d be ready. Then she got pregnant, and everything changed. Well she changed. I was understanding and helpful trying to be the perfect husband and dad. After the baby came she didn’t have time for me and actually yelled at me for wanting sex even though it had been six months. As far as just giving me some relief she called me a selfish bastard and we got into a long fight. A year after my daughter was born she started to soften just long enough to get pregnant again. That was the last time my wife and I had a decent sex life. The second pregnancy killed her libido and it didn’t come back after the birth. We had sex six times in two years, and it was always after a lot of begging and working for it. By the time my oldest daughter was six I stopped asking for it entirely. I mean why beat my head against the wall. She was only interested when she was interested, about once every three months, and by that point I was so frustrated and angry and bitter I would only do it because it was the only game in town. I started watching a lot of porn then and she didn’t seem to mind since I left her alone more about sex. This went on for almost ten years. Anniversary sex was about it and it was awful. She just didn’t make it a priority at all and she made me nearly beg for the bad sex she would give me. We were down to about three, four times a year when the kids hit high school. Then suddenly my wife hits her “sexual peak” and starts complaining that “I’m not there for her”. Where the hell was she for those fifteen years when I wanted sex? I was a good father and husband all that time and when she didn’t want sex I would go to the den and watch porn but suddenly porn is evil and taking me away from her (her words) even though it was her who stopped doing sex long before I lost interest. Now she’s trying to make it all my fault. She says I’m not attracted to her, which is not entirely true. She’s an attractive woman for her age. But fifteen years of bitterness is too long for a man to forget overnight. I’m just supposed to let all those times I was sent from my own bed to “take care of it” because she was tired or didn’t feel well or just didn’t want to be bothered? I feel like a victim of sexual abuse in reverse and she wants me to get rid of all the porn now and just focus on her. I even tried for a few weeks after marriage counseling and I mean I really tried. I didn’t watch porn or masturbate or anything because I’m committed to the marriage. But when it came to actual sex she wanted six hours of non-sexual foreplay before she’d even take her clothes off and then the sex was just awful still. We tried to talk about it in counseling and she admitted that she was interested in trying some new things but she felt like she could never measure up to the porno girls. Well she can’t not now. Maybe if she had done that when we were younger it would have been good but she expects me to be over joyed because she finally decided that sex was fun. 15 years I told her that and she ignored me and made me feel bad about myself for wanting sex now it is she who wants it all the time. But she only wants the kind of sex she likes, not the kind I like at all. No oral or anything else like that. She expects me to just look at her pop a boner and be ready to go. Only now when I look at her instead of arousal all I feel is resentment and bitterness and she can’t understand why. If she ignored my needs for fifteen years, how about I ignore hers for fifteen years and we just start even? LOL. Serious we are still in counseling but I don’t see much hope. She says she loves me and I love her but its going to take an awful lot before I’m going to feel the way I felt about her when we got married. It would be one thing I guess if she just wanted to screw but she wants to make the whole thing so elaborate and contrived that I feel more like I’m getting ready for prom than having bad sex with my wife. But if I don’t do everything she wants she screams at me in counseling that I just don’t care. The truth is I do care a whole lot but she has hurt me and my feelings for so long I just don’t know. Porn is great because it never says no, it doesn’t have a headache and it doesn’t make you feel crappy about your manhood on a daily basis. Truth is I probably would have left her long ago if I didn’t have porn in my life. She has made most of my adult life a misery and porn was there for me when she was not. We reap what we sow and she sowed bitterness and resentment. Why shouldn’t she reap it?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ian,
For every guy who thinks they are a "wonderful husband and father" their is a bitter wife who thinks "not even close". A woman doesn't loose her sex drive after kids, she looses it with her husband. Trust me, she'd still screw Johnny Depp if the opportunity arose. If a woman doesn't want sex, you need to up your game. 
As for the other poster you mentioned, so what is he looking for? He lost his mojo years ago and his wife didn't want him. So he turns to porn and now she wants him again but he rejects her. How is this productive? Victims are never sexy.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> And THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again - PORN, in of itself is not the issue, a SO's addiction to porn is the issue, when he ignores or uses it as a substitute for the loving woman who shares his bed and his life.


NWIL, can we agree then, that if the man is completely fulfilling his wife sexually, is available for her when she needs it, finds her irresistibly attractive, tells her and SHOWS her this obsessively, but for what ever reason gets erotic enjoyment out of watching two attractive people have unadulterated physical passion towards each other, that there is no harm done?

BTW, I agree 100%, that if you replace porn with sex with your spouse that there is a problem. I also don't think that porn necessarily desensitizes your attractiveness or attitude towards your personal sex life with your partner if used appropriately.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Ian,
> For every guy who thinks they are a "wonderful husband and father" their is a bitter wife who thinks "not even close". A woman doesn't loose her sex drive after kids, she looses it with her husband. Trust me, she'd still screw Johnny Depp if the opportunity arose. If a woman doesn't want sex, you need to up your game.
> As for the other poster you mentioned, so what is he looking for? He lost his mojo years ago and his wife didn't want him. So he turns to porn and now she wants him again but he rejects her. How is this productive? Victims are never sexy.


And for every woman who feels she's been a "wonderful wife and mother" there is a bitter husband who can list a hundred reasons why That Ain't Necessarily So. Sure, it's all subjective. But a woman who loses her sex drive with her husband when he is actively pursuing, as in the post, doesn't do so because her husband lost his mojo. Believe me, I've seen guys go through titanic efforts to "up their game", guys who gave their wives everything they ever asked for in counseling, and still get frozen out. 

And I'm sorry, but I'm sympathetic with the poster, not his wife. Perhaps being a victim isn't sexy, but at this point why should he care about "being sexy" after a decade and a half of neglect and abuse? Just how long should someone go without sex in a marriage before they abandon all hope of improvement? 

If a husband forced sex on his wife for fifteen years at whim, there would be an outcry for her to leave him, and rightly so. But what you're saying is that fifteen years of depriving him of something he needed desperately should be written off so that he can cater to her suddenly-rediscovered needs? Do his feelings not matter in this discussion? Obviously he does feel like a victim, sexy or not. Are you suggesting he should just conceal and bury these deep-seated feelings of resentment in an effort to validate his wife's controlling attitude?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> And for every woman who feels she's been a "wonderful wife and mother" there is a bitter husband who can list a hundred reasons why That Ain't Necessarily So. Sure, it's all subjective. But a woman who loses her sex drive with her husband when he is actively pursuing, as in the post, doesn't do so because her husband lost his mojo. Believe me, I've seen guys go through titanic efforts to "up their game", guys who gave their wives everything they ever asked for in counseling, and still get frozen out.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but I'm sympathetic with the poster, not his wife. Perhaps being a victim isn't sexy, but at this point why should he care about "being sexy" after a decade and a half of neglect and abuse? Just how long should someone go without sex in a marriage before they abandon all hope of improvement?
> 
> If a husband forced sex on his wife for fifteen years at whim, there would be an outcry for her to leave him, and rightly so. But what you're saying is that fifteen years of depriving him of something he needed desperately should be written off so that he can cater to her suddenly-rediscovered needs? Do his feelings not matter in this discussion? Obviously he does feel like a victim, sexy or not. Are you suggesting he should just conceal and bury these deep-seated feelings of resentment in an effort to validate his wife's controlling attitude?


I disagree. A woman doesn't go sexless for 15 years if her husband is doing all that he can. She doesn't want HIM. Who knows why but that's what's happening.
I am not suggesting he concel or bury anything. He should get out! Like I wrote, what's productive in how he is acting? Or her for that matter!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> I thought you might be interested in a message I got from a man on another forum about this topic. Maybe it will provide some insight, particularly married men and porn. I fixed most of the punctuation errors to make it more readable. It at least should help explain some of the feelings some men have about the subject:
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 18 years, together for 22. We got married in college and the first year our sex life was great. All I had to do was look at her and she’d be ready. Then she got pregnant, and everything changed. Well she changed. I was understanding and helpful trying to be the perfect husband and dad. After the baby came she didn’t have time for me and actually yelled at me for wanting sex even though it had been six months. As far as just giving me some relief she called me a selfish bastard and we got into a long fight. A year after my daughter was born she started to soften just long enough to get pregnant again. That was the last time my wife and I had a decent sex life. The second pregnancy killed her libido and it didn’t come back after the birth. We had sex six times in two years, and it was always after a lot of begging and working for it. By the time my oldest daughter was six I stopped asking for it entirely. I mean why beat my head against the wall. She was only interested when she was interested, about once every three months, and by that point I was so frustrated and angry and bitter I would only do it because it was the only game in town. I started watching a lot of porn then and she didn’t seem to mind since I left her alone more about sex. This went on for almost ten years. Anniversary sex was about it and it was awful. She just didn’t make it a priority at all and she made me nearly beg for the bad sex she would give me. We were down to about three, four times a year when the kids hit high school. Then suddenly my wife hits her “sexual peak” and starts complaining that “I’m not there for her”. Where the hell was she for those fifteen years when I wanted sex? I was a good father and husband all that time and when she didn’t want sex I would go to the den and watch porn but suddenly porn is evil and taking me away from her (her words) even though it was her who stopped doing sex long before I lost interest. Now she’s trying to make it all my fault. She says I’m not attracted to her, which is not entirely true. She’s an attractive woman for her age. But fifteen years of bitterness is too long for a man to forget overnight. I’m just supposed to let all those times I was sent from my own bed to “take care of it” because she was tired or didn’t feel well or just didn’t want to be bothered? I feel like a victim of sexual abuse in reverse and she wants me to get rid of all the porn now and just focus on her. I even tried for a few weeks after marriage counseling and I mean I really tried. I didn’t watch porn or masturbate or anything because I’m committed to the marriage. But when it came to actual sex she wanted six hours of non-sexual foreplay before she’d even take her clothes off and then the sex was just awful still. We tried to talk about it in counseling and she admitted that she was interested in trying some new things but she felt like she could never measure up to the porno girls. Well she can’t not now. Maybe if she had done that when we were younger it would have been good but she expects me to be over joyed because she finally decided that sex was fun. 15 years I told her that and she ignored me and made me feel bad about myself for wanting sex now it is she who wants it all the time. But she only wants the kind of sex she likes, not the kind I like at all. No oral or anything else like that. She expects me to just look at her pop a boner and be ready to go. Only now when I look at her instead of arousal all I feel is resentment and bitterness and she can’t understand why. If she ignored my needs for fifteen years, how about I ignore hers for fifteen years and we just start even? LOL. Serious we are still in counseling but I don’t see much hope. She says she loves me and I love her but its going to take an awful lot before I’m going to feel the way I felt about her when we got married. It would be one thing I guess if she just wanted to screw but she wants to make the whole thing so elaborate and contrived that I feel more like I’m getting ready for prom than having bad sex with my wife. But if I don’t do everything she wants she screams at me in counseling that I just don’t care. The truth is I do care a whole lot but she has hurt me and my feelings for so long I just don’t know. Porn is great because it never says no, it doesn’t have a headache and it doesn’t make you feel crappy about your manhood on a daily basis. Truth is I probably would have left her long ago if I didn’t have porn in my life. She has made most of my adult life a misery and porn was there for me when she was not. We reap what we sow and she sowed bitterness and resentment. Why shouldn’t she reap it?


Very good story and I really appreciated it.

Hit home in a couple of areas that my husband has approached me about (past issues). 

But while this does hit home in some areas, it also makes me feel as if there is no hope in my relationship. 

I sure hope not!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

hubby said:


> NWIL, can we agree then, that if the man is completely fulfilling his wife sexually, is available for her when she needs it, finds her irresistibly attractive, tells her and SHOWS her this obsessively, but for what ever reason gets erotic enjoyment out of watching two attractive people have unadulterated physical passion towards each other, that there is no harm done?
> 
> BTW, I agree 100%, that if you replace porn with sex with your spouse that there is a problem. I also don't think that porn necessarily desensitizes your attractiveness or attitude towards your personal sex life with your partner if used appropriately.


We can definitely agree. No harm done with porn at all if the needs of both partners are being addressed and met within the confines of their own sexual relationship.

And I agree with the second paragraph also - the problem being that some cannot separate the two and hence it becomes an addiction and a comparison.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Just my 2 cents. People don't just wake up one morning and say, "Hey I think I don't want sex with my spouse anymore."

I'm sure its something that gradually happens over time. If its not medical and that has been ruled out. If its not someone else on the side, then chances are the other spouse who claims they aren't getting any possibly has a hand in why that might be. I know thats hard to see or even admit. However, saying you have done all you can, doesn't mean you have. Also a spouse can tell you all day long you haven't done anything, but that doesn't make that so either. There might be something you're missing or not picking up on. maybe your spouse has tried to show you or tell you, and you just don't get it. OR maybe that spouse isn't communicating with you exactly what it is you did or didn't do that has caused you to have a part in them not feeling sexual with you. 

That is probably the hardest part, where a spouse will not tell or come clean with the other spouse for why they do not want to have sex with them. They should, might save alot of banging ones head against the wall trying to figure it all out.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> Just my 2 cents. People don't just wake up one morning and say, "Hey I think I don't want sex with my spouse anymore."
> 
> I'm sure its something that gradually happens over time. If its not medical and that has been ruled out. If its not someone else on the side, then chances are the other spouse who claims they aren't getting any possibly has a hand in why that might be. I know thats hard to see or even admit. However, saying you have done all you can, doesn't mean you have There might be something you're missing or not picking up on. maybe your spouse has tried to show you or tell you, and you just don't get it. OR maybe that spouse isn't communicating with you exactly what it is you did or didn't do that has caused you to have a part in them not feeling have sex with you.
> 
> That is probably the hardest part, where a spouse will not tell or come clean with the other spouse for why they do not want to have sex with them. They should, might save alot of banging ones head against the wall trying to figure it all out.


:iagree: totally!

And this is what I'm trying to figure out - what do I own in this, what am I doing wrong, etc. 

And I am a banging my head against the wall trying to figure it out.


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

Brennan said:


> A woman doesn't go sexless for 15 years if her husband is doing all that he can. She doesn't want HIM. Who knows why but that's what's happening.


Wrong. So wrong. My wife told me flat out, in counseling and privately, that after marriage she simply lost interest in sex, _even though there was nothing wrong with our relationship_. She said that everything else was fine. I was a good husband. She was happy with me and our relationship. "It's not like I love you any less" she said. She just lost interest. And at the 10 year mark she was baffled, _flabbergasted_, that being in a sexless marriage was a problem for me. At the 15 year mark she continued to miss the point that sex was an important part of my life. At 20 years she still doesn't understand, after hours and hours of talks and counseling. 

My best friend's wife told him the same thing. "It's not like I stopped loving you. I wouldn't change a thing about you! I just don't care to have sex with you anymore." 

Women DO simply stop wanting sex with their husbands. Even when the husbands are good in every way, wives still eliminate sex from the relationship and then get confused or defensive when the guys complain.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> Just my 2 cents. People don't just wake up one morning and say, "Hey I think I don't want sex with my spouse anymore."
> 
> I'm sure its something that gradually happens over time. If its not medical and that has been ruled out. If its not someone else on the side, then chances are the other spouse who claims they aren't getting any possibly has a hand in why that might be. I know thats hard to see or even admit. However, saying you have done all you can, doesn't mean you have. Also a spouse can tell you all day long you haven't done anything, but that doesn't make that so either. There might be something you're missing or not picking up on. maybe your spouse has tried to show you or tell you, and you just don't get it. OR maybe that spouse isn't communicating with you exactly what it is you did or didn't do that has caused you to have a part in them not feeling sexual with you.
> 
> That is probably the hardest part, where a spouse will not tell or come clean with the other spouse for why they do not want to have sex with them. They should, might save alot of banging ones head against the wall trying to figure it all out.


And then there is the problem, that often they don't even know why. Seriously... my girl isn't a real talker, so I have to pull everything out, position myself in her shoes, and then there are the times she really doesn't know what's bothering her. Thank god these are once in a while situations.

Now imagine someone who is like this all the time.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Nine-E said:


> Wrong. So wrong. My wife told me flat out, in counseling and privately, that after marriage she simply lost interest in sex, _even though there was nothing wrong with our relationship_. She said that everything else was fine. I was a good husband. She was happy with me and our relationship. "It's not like I love you any less" she said. She just lost interest. And at the 10 year mark she was baffled, _flabbergasted_, that being in a sexless marriage was a problem for me. At the 15 year mark she continued to miss the point that sex was an important part of my life. At 20 years she still doesn't understand, after hours and hours of talks and counseling.
> 
> My best friend's wife told him the same thing. "It's not like I stopped loving you. I wouldn't change a thing about you! I just don't care to have sex with you anymore."
> 
> Women DO simply stop wanting sex with their husbands. Even when the husbands are good in every way, wives still eliminate sex from the relationship and then get confused or defensive when the guys complain.


I never said anything about love. Of course she still loves you. It's lust that is missing. Huge difference.


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

Brennan said:


> I never said anything about love. Of course she still loves you. It's lust that is missing. Huge difference.


So a woman must have lust to want sex? Love isn't enough?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Nine-E said:


> So a woman must have lust to want sex? Love isn't enough?


Yes. Are men any different?


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Nine-E said:


> So a woman must have lust to want sex? Love isn't enough?


Do you think that she does not want sex, or she does not want to have sex with you? Do you think that if she was not married, or never knew you, and Johnny Depp walked in her bedroom, she would turn him back out the door? You need to be her Johnny Depp again. If you and her had the passion and desire, you can bring it back, I know from experience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

hubby said:


> Do you think that she does not want sex, or she does not want to have sex with you? Do you think that if she was not married, or never knew you, and Johnny Depp walked in her bedroom, she would turn him back out the door? You need to be her Johnny Depp again. If you and her had the passion and desire, you can bring it back, I know from experience.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY!!! For every guy out there moaning that their wife doesn't want sex, trust me, she does....just not with you. Actually help her in the kitchen and with the kids and not make it like doing a one time "effort" is something you deserve a bj over. Gawd. She will BE your sexual siren and do whatever you want. Make her feel safe, secure and loved and NOT taken for granted and she will be the most sexual woman on the planet. Do it one time and she will see through your lame motives, do it often if not forever and she will be yours, mind, body and spirit.


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

Or if you're like my best friend, who does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, bill paying, house repairs, home maintenance, and all the other household chores, in addition to working full time, tells her he loves her frequently, and treats her like a freaking goddess, she'll still not want to have sex with him. 

Of course love is enough for men. Er, well, it's enough for me, anyway. Why is lust a *requirement*? 

I guess an even bigger question for me is: Why are so many women content to give up sex with their husband for years on end, despite their husband's clearly stated needs?


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Brennan said:


> EXACTLY!!! For every guy out there moaning that their wife doesn't want sex, trust me, she does....just not with you. Actually help her in the kitchen and with the kids and not make it like doing a one time "effort" is something you deserve a bj over. Gawd. She will BE your sexual siren and do whatever you want. Make her feel safe, secure and loved and NOT taken for granted and she will be the most sexual woman on the planet. Do it one time and she will see through your lame motives, do it often if not forever and she will be yours, mind, body and spirit.


Unless, of course...she doesn't.

Reliably and continuously helping around the house and/or with the kids is not a guarantee that her sex drive will return. Other factors can - and often do - contribute. It would be great if there were such a simple one-size-fits-all solution to such a situation. However, people are incredibly complex.

(Of course, the easy retort is, "Well, obviously you only THOUGHT you were significantly contributing to the work of daily life." the problem with easy retorts is that...well...they can be just as simplistic and off base as one-size-fits-all solutions.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Nine-E said:


> Or if you're like my best friend, who does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, bill paying, house repairs, home maintenance, and all the other household chores, in addition to working full time, tells her he loves her frequently, and treats her like a freaking goddess, she'll still not want to have sex with him.
> 
> Of course love is enough for men. Er, well, it's enough for me, anyway. Why is lust a *requirement*?
> 
> I guess an even bigger question for me is: Why are so many women content to give up sex with their husband for years on end, despite their husband's clearly stated needs?


Because she is no longer in lust with him. I don't see why this is difficult to understand. Men come on here all the time and say they aren't attracted to their wives, look at porn instead, go to strip clubs. Do you think that the same can't be true for women? They don't want sex with you and would rather shop, watch tv or go out with their friends.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Grayson said:


> Unless, of course...she doesn't.
> 
> Reliably and continuously helping around the house and/or with the kids is not a guarantee that her sex drive will return. Other factors can - and often do - contribute. It would be great if there were such a simple one-size-fits-all solution to such a situation. However, people are incredibly complex.
> 
> ...


I agree with you to a point. I think alot of guys "help out" because they want sex and women see right through that. If it was genuine, that's one thing but as is in many cases, years and years have gone by of the woman doing most of the work and expresses to her husband that she wants help. He thinks this will be the solution to his sexless marriage and starts helping out. Resentment has already built up in her and his motives are pretty obvious. More resentment ensues. Her sex drive is there, just not for him and she will reject him continuously. Vicious circle it is.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> I agree with you to a point. I think alot of guys "help out" because they want sex and women see right through that. If it was genuine, that's one thing but as is in many cases, years and years have gone by of the woman doing most of the work and expresses to her husband that she wants help. He thinks this will be the solution to his sexless marriage and starts helping out. Resentment has already built up in her and his motives are pretty obvious. More resentment ensues. Her sex drive is there, just not for him and she will reject him continuously. Vicious circle it is.


Correct. He needs to quit being her maid and start being a man. Maybe not HER man, but a man.

Not that I'm against guys doing housework -- I'm the housekeeper, cook, and primary child-care in my relationship -- but I'm not a pu$$y, either. I'm just much better at it than my wife. And if she's been a little slow in the sex department, and isn't responding to my more subtle hints, when she runs out of panties and has to beg me to wash some, she knows what that means. It's become a kind of private code that says "Y'know? Maybe if you have to go commando all day at work you might reconsider the level of appreciation you're currently showing your hubby". 

But it's more than that, too. Any woman who is using housework as an excuse for low libido is revealing a much deeper issue.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Correct. He needs to quit being her maid and start being a man. Maybe not HER man, but a man.
> 
> Not that I'm against guys doing housework -- I'm the housekeeper, cook, and primary child-care in my relationship -- but I'm not a pu$$y, either. I'm just much better at it than my wife. And if she's been a little slow in the sex department, and isn't responding to my more subtle hints, when she runs out of panties and has to beg me to wash some, she knows what that means. It's become a kind of private code that says "Y'know? Maybe if you have to go commando all day at work you might reconsider the level of appreciation you're currently showing your hubby".
> 
> But it's more than that, too. Any woman who is using housework as an excuse for low libido is revealing a much deeper issue.


And that deeper issue is RESENTMENT.


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## Whatshisname (Jan 12, 2011)

I just read through this whole thread and theres some amazing stuff going on here. The guys say I feel this way or porn affects me that way and (some of) the girls spin it, and turn it around on them so that it's still a knock to them even though the guys explain it as otherwise. I wonder if the ladies feel the same way ~ that we're spinning things?
I know in my own case, when I've looked at porn it just makes me desire my W more - it sure doesn't replace her. 
Maybe it's all a case of having to be in someone else's shoes (or gender) to really understand.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Whatshisname said:


> I just read through this whole thread and theres some amazing stuff going on here. The guys say I feel this way or porn affects me that way and (some of) the girls spin it, and turn it around on them so that it's still a knock to them even though the guys explain it as otherwise. I wonder if the ladies feel the same way ~ that we're spinning things?
> I know in my own case, when I've looked at porn it just makes me desire my W more - it sure doesn't replace her.
> Maybe it's all a case of having to be in someone else's shoes (or gender) to really understand.


Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Brennan said:


> Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


OK, porn probably has a neutral effect on actual his desire for his wife, but it increases is overall sexual desire and general horniness leading to increased desire to have sex with his wife. Not sure if I am making sense on this.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


How come you can go windowshop for shoes, not buy anything, and still come home to all of the shoes you have and be perfectly happy?


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## Whatshisname (Jan 12, 2011)

The vids serve as inspiration ~ same for the W when we watch them together. They also give me or us; idea's to keep things lively.
Getting turned on by someone else? That may be putting it rather simply but yes, kinda. It's viewing the whole scene, not just some strange woman that raises the want for intimacy with my W. Does a romantic novel or movie inspire passion in people or better yet, couples? Sure it does. It's the same response for us. There's limit of course, I hate vids with outlandish screaming from the women or silly looking fake breasts. We really like to see real loving couples in the throes of passion or at least, actors in a believable scenario.
Neither one of us wants’ to be with the person on the screen but the characters inspire a sexy mood at which point we look to each other for fulfillment.
Does this make sense?

ON EDIT: Ian, great analogy!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> How come you can go windowshop for shoes, not buy anything, and still come home to all of the shoes you have and be perfectly happy?


I can't!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Whatshisname said:


> The vids serve as inspiration ~ same for the W when we watch them together. They also give me or us; idea's to keep things lively.
> Getting turned on by someone else? That may be putting it rather simply but yes, kinda. It's viewing the whole scene, not just some strange woman that raises the want for intimacy with my W. Does a romantic novel or movie inspire passion in people or better yet, couples? Sure it does. It's the same response for us. There's limit of course, I hate vids with outlandish screaming from the women or silly looking fake breasts. We really like to see real loving couples in the throes of passion or at least, actors in a believable scenario.
> Neither one of us wants’ to be with the person on the screen but the characters inspire a sexy mood at which point we look to each other for fulfillment.
> Does this make sense?
> ...


Watching it together I would assume makes things hotter later but alone? I don't know. Perhaps I am sensitive about this but if my hubby got all aroused by someone else in porn and then came to me?


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## Whatshisname (Jan 12, 2011)

What does it really mater what gets our motors running (novel, movie, soap opera, your young attractive gardener - don't scoff, people inspire sensuousness but not necessarily a need to cheat) as long as our S/O want's to bring that sexiness (which can last all day for me) back to us and only us?

Ever seen an ad for Sizzler and decided to BBQ those steaks you have in the fridge tonight?
(Ian - I'm learning!)


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


If you think about it, it's the same with beaches


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Whatshisname said:


> What does it really mater what gets our motors running (novel, movie, soap opera, your young attractive gardener - don't scoff, people inspire sensuousness but not necessarily a need to cheat) as long as our S/O want's to bring that sexiness (which can last all day for me) back to us and only us?


For me? It's the fear that he will continue with those thoughts during sex. Irrational? Probably. A fear? Yes. 
Any truth to this guys? :scratchhead:


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> If you think about it, it's the same with beaches


Not where I live.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Brennan said:


> For me? It's the fear that he will continue with those thoughts during sex. Irrational? Probably. A fear? Yes.
> Any truth to this guys? :scratchhead:


Not for me. I can barely handle my wife :smthumbup:

I pretty much keep my eyes wide open the whole time and focus on her, her body, our bodies. I have a hard time pulling back those mental images when I see all that in front of me.


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## Whatshisname (Jan 12, 2011)

Brennan said:


> For me? It's the fear that he will continue with those thoughts during sex. Irrational? Probably. A fear? Yes.
> Any truth to this guys? :scratchhead:


 For some, yes (make sure your not just laying there "Thinking of England" and he won't think of anybody else!).
But for most of us, No.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> I can't!


So if you were a man with a wife who wouldn't have sex with him, by extending the metaphor you'd be the type of man who'd not just watch porn, but patronize a prostitute?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> So if you were a man with a wife who wouldn't have sex with him, by extending the metaphor you'd be the type of man who'd not just watch porn, but patronize a prostitute?


No, I'd be the man who filed for divorce. Why windowshop for the rest of your life.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> No, I'd be the man who filed for divorce. Why windowshop for the rest of your life.


An excellent point. Which is why so many men are filing for divorce these days. And why they'll get married less and less in the future.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> An excellent point. Which is why so many men are filing for divorce these days. And why they'll get married less and less in the future.


Actually, more women file for divorce than men. They just get fed up and leave. This is also why women will opt to stay single in the future. 

Crap, did I just open myself up for a dissertation on why women file and the unfair way the courts view men in a divorce? Save it.  We already have Scannerguard and Deejo for that.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Actually, more women file for divorce than men. They just get fed up and leave. This is also why women will opt to stay single in the future.
> 
> Crap, did I just open myself up for a dissertation on why women file and the unfair way the courts view men in a divorce? Save it.  We already have Scannerguard and Deejo for that.


One diatribe at a time. Today we're focusing on how women view men as success objects and men view women as sex objects.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> One diatribe at a time. Today we're focusing on how women view men as success objects and men view women as sex objects.


Whoot! So I am a sex object? Apparently I need to update my CV/resume with that information.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Whoot! So I am a sex object? Apparently I need to update my CV/resume with that information.


Couldn't hurt. Have you seen the job market out there? "Sex Object" on your CV will get you hired, guaranteed.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Couldn't hurt. Have you seen the job market out there? "Sex Object" on your CV will get you hired, guaranteed.


So will "best bj giver". At least that's what I have been told. Hey, everybody lies on their resume anyways!


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Because she is no longer in lust with him. I don't see why this is difficult to understand. Men come on here all the time and say they aren't attracted to their wives, look at porn instead, go to strip clubs. Do you think that the same can't be true for women? They don't want sex with you and would rather shop, watch tv or go out with their friends.


I guess I need to rephrase the question then: Why do women not care that they are sexless? Maybe they don't want to have sex with their husbands, but I would think they'd want sex nevertheless. Sex of some kind, and I'm not talking masturbation. 

I've been hurt and ignored and degraded so much by my wife that I no longer want to have sex with her, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with being sexless. I still want to be a sexual human being. My wife, on the other hand, couldn't care less. "If I never have sex again for the rest of my life, I wouldn't miss it", she told me. And she didn't mean no sex with me, she meant no sex of any kind, at all. Ever.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Nine-E said:


> I guess I need to rephrase the question then: Why do women not care that they are sexless? Maybe they don't want to have sex with their husbands, but I would think they'd want sex nevertheless. Sex of some kind, and I'm not talking masturbation.
> 
> I've been hurt and ignored and degraded so much by my wife that I no longer want to have sex with her, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with being sexless. I still want to be a sexual human being. My wife, on the other hand, couldn't care less. "If I never have sex again for the rest of my life, I wouldn't miss it", she told me. And she didn't mean no sex with me, she meant no sex of any kind, at all. Ever.


I think your situation is a bit different. Clearly she has zero drive. I don't think that is the case for most wives. I think years of built up resentment has made them have zero drive for their husband. That or years of boring sex.
If she wouldn't miss sex and could go without it for the rest of her life, would she be okay with an open relationship? I don't mean threaten to cheat on her but rather have a frank discussion of what your needs are and since she doesn't care about them, can you find a lover. Again, I think your situation is the extreme but that doesn't mean she should hold hostage your sexuality. Just because it isn't important to her, doesn't mean it isn't important to you. Talk with her.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


With WHN there. Like I said in multiple threads, porn increases my drive for my wife. I do not watch it for the ladies. I watch because my wife turned me on. The use that to "enjoy" myself and then use that to be with my wife. Simple as that. It is often not about the people on screen. Just about the enjoyment they are deriving, even if partially acted.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Porn makes you desire your wife more? How does that work? Get all turned on by somebody else and then go find her? I do not understand.


Brennan, 

You are against porn, so I guess you haven't watched porn. 

For some people, they might have been addicted to porn, and porn is hurting him and his relationship. 

But for a lot of us, porn is just a tool for us to get horny. It doesn't mean anything. 

Normally I don't watch porn, I read erotic porn stories when my husband is giving me oral and I want to get myself cum fast, I don't want to tire my husband out. I read it, my body fires up, my husband licks me, I have a wonderful and strong orgasm! Isn't this just a tool for me to fire up. Is my love for my husband contaminated? NO. 

In our life, a lot of things if we use it wisely, it is a great tool, if we abuse it, then it becomes a problem. 

My personal attitude, women should watch more porn, learn from porn stars, learn how to be sexy and horny, learn how to have sex, of course learn the good things. We are adults, we know what to pick and want to throw away. Don't blame a tool if the person doesn't know how to use it!


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## Whatshisname (Jan 12, 2011)

And with that I nominate GreenPearl as Queen of TAM!!! 

:allhail:


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

I second that motion!

GO GREENPEARL!!!

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:
:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:
:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:
:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

TO the OP, I hope everything is ok for you. Please let us know how things are.


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

Indeed! What's the latest? I'm really curious.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Agreed, how is it going OP?



Whatshisname said:


> And with that I nominate GreenPearl as Queen of TAM!!!


Seconded!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Brennan,
> 
> You are against porn, so I guess you haven't watched porn.
> 
> ...


I made it pretty clear I am not anti porn. I said I am anti "commercial" porn. Amateur porn? NO ISSUE with whatsoever and of course I watch it with him! My issue is the exploitation in professional porn and that is what I have been talking about all along. :scratchhead:


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Brennan said:


> I made it pretty clear I am not anti porn. I said I am anti "commercial" porn. Amateur porn? NO ISSUE with whatsoever and of course I watch it with him! My issue is the exploitation in professional porn and that is what I have been talking about all along. :scratchhead:


I'm not sure I can agree with the notion of there being much exploitation in modern "commercial" (see: "professional") porn. I'll certainly agree that, as I've gotten older, I've come to ENJOY "amateur" porn more than "professional." I find the realism (genuine or well-manufactured)...that is, the sense of the participants being "regular people" who don't appear artificial and seem to genuinely enjoy one another...to be far more enjoyable than a paint-by-numbers exercise featuring "too perfect" people.

What I've read and seen thus far, though, tends to make me think that today's professional porn is about as free of exploitation as possible for an industry that's designed to arouse like that. Much of what might be considered "exploitive" is as much a result of being a visual medium designed for spectators. The facial (or any external) "money shot," odd (sometimes uncomfortable positions), a greater abundance of F on M oral as opposed to M on F all appear to stem from being a medium that requires something visual. While there is certainly an element of the content being geared towards a traditionally predominantly male audience, the result seems to have become that the women performing ultimately wield the power: they can dictate who they will or won't perform with, what they will and won't do on camera, and have the lion's share of product endorsement, merchandising, personal appearances, and opportunity for crossover and/or "mainstream" appeal/success. And they certainly make more money than their male counterparts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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