# Is it possible?



## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

I have been with my husband for almost 8 years. Married for 2. We have been through some rough times through the years but somehow always found to make it through. In '06 we got married and we now have a beautiful 15 month old son, whom we both adore. We recently bought a 2 family house with my family. We are now in the process of redoing the apartment that we will be living in, in the meantime we are sharing the 1st floor and basement with my aunt and grandmother. The reason why I am writing all this is because I think our problems started because of our situation of living together with my family.

A couple of weeks ago he started acting very distant from me. Once he walks in the door he is a different person, he barely even says hello or anything, just watches tv and sits there, he doesnt say anything if I dont. Last week I finally couldnt take it anymore and confronted him about his behavior. While I explained to him that I know living with my family is hard and that he agreed to this before we bought the house, I assured him that once our apartment is finished we will get our lives back. He says it has nothing to do with that. He finally said that his problem is that he feels that we are just friends and nothing more, that he loves me but isnt happy and doesnt necessarily want to be with me. After a couple of days of going back and fourth, last night he admitted he's been feeling this way for a while now, he just thought it would blow over. he swears there is no one else, he doesnt want to be with anyone else, he just doesnt think he wants to be with me. When I told him to just leave because he is torturing me every day, he broke down and said he will try everything he can to make things better. I suggested we wait until our apartment is done and we close our own door again and see how things go but its been extremely difficult. I suggested marriage counseling, of course he doesnt want to do it, he says he doesnt feel comfortable telling his problems to a stranger and that he know what he's feeling is wrong and that he is giving up a lot but he cannot help the way he feels.

We are still young, he is 26, I am 28. I know that we might've done things to fast but we did them together. We had a great life together the past few years and accoplished a lot. I cannot live with the idea that he is ready to walk away from our marriage, he says he is willing to try whatever it takes and try and make it work, but that to him is still being the same, he doesnt change. I cannot go home every day, seeing him the way he is, knowing he doesnt want to be with me. I really need some opinions, advice..anything, Im lost and don't know what to do, how do I make him want to be with me, I can't control the way he feels and we have a son who's future is at sake...please if anyone has any good advise, its greatly appreciated. Is it possible he can want to be with me again? How?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

kuki said:


> When I told him to just leave because he is torturing me every day, he broke down and said he will try everything he can to make things better. I suggested we wait until our apartment is done and we close our own door again and see how things go but its been extremely difficult. I suggested marriage counseling, of course he doesnt want to do it, he says he doesnt feel comfortable telling his problems to a stranger and that he know what he's feeling is wrong and that he is giving up a lot but he cannot help the way he feels.


He has stated he would do anything to make things right again. Hold him to that and require counseling. It may be uncomfortable for him but it can help. My wife and I went through it last year and it helped. I can understand is discomfort in discussing his issues with a stranger but it’s not as bad as it seams. Also his statement indicates there are things he has been unable to share with you. Since your son is 15 months old is it possible he is feeling less important in your life? A common sort of feeling in a new father. That with living in a home with your family may exacerbate the problem. 

Communication and counseling may be key in addressing this. Is it possible to recover, yes it is.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you so much for your advice. At this point anything or anyones positive outlook on this helps. He is a stubborn, somewhat immature young guy. I knew this from the begining and many times over the course of our relationship, I had to kind of make him grow up but I did it because I love him and would do anything to be with him.

I dont think its the feeling less important in my life is true, he is very much into our son, he is a great great father and if anything the role is the other way around, since our son was born, I am less important to him. I know if we wouldnt have our son, its almost definate we would separate. I almost feel like I served my purpose because I gave him his child and now he doesnt need me. As I am sa saying it, it just accured to me that it could be all part of it. 

I will try my hardest to try and get him to go for counseling. I have a feeling it would help and I just need to somehow make him undestand that.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Counselling is not the only option.

You could try clear communication.

Get a list from him, of all the departments that he feels you are lacking in. If he says he will do anything, get him to at least do that.

I have to say, in-laws are the kiss of death to a lot of marriages. It might not have been the cause, but living with them was probably the trigger.

Can you tell us what sort of interactions have passed between him and them?


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Well here's the thing. He says he's been feeling like this before we bought the house and moved and all. Which is true because we had a conversation like this sometime early this year when we still lived at our old place, but somehow we talked it out.

I asked him already what it is that I can do or change about me to help the situation and he says he cannot point out one thing about me that bothers him. He said if he tells someone about how he feels, they will think he is crazy because I gave him such a good life and im a great person. He said he doesnt want to talk to anyone about it because he know if he tells someone they will tell him he's crazy because he has it all, why would he want to walk away from it. But he said, if he isnt happy he cannot help it.

My family on the other hand does not really bother him. They ask me many times what is wrong with him, why is he upset, who is he mad at, why doesnt he treat me like a wife should be treated, how come theres never any physical interactione between us. And that is really what he's lacking most of, he doesnt have the longing to want to hold my hand, or kiss me or be physically involved with me. We dont have much of a sex life, especially since our son was born and Im sure that is part of it. I tried to cover most of my bases and asked him about everything that crossed my mind that it could be and he just simply says, that he isnt happy. I am lost for options.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

From your perspective, do you think you may have gotten into the rut of everyday life, working, cooking, cleaning, raising children and lost time for each other? Do the two of you date & have fun together alone? I think it's common in many marriages where one or both start to feel...this is it? for the rest of my life? Because the romance and playful fun part of being married is missing and you feel more like roommates than lovers. Do you still find him desirable? Does he know that?

Sorry more questions than answers but trying to understand where he might be coming from.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

kuki-

Which of you is responsible for the lack of sex?


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

swedish said:


> From your perspective, do you think you may have gotten into the rut of everyday life, working, cooking, cleaning, raising children and lost time for each other? Do the two of you date & have fun together alone? I think it's common in many marriages where one or both start to feel...this is it? for the rest of my life? Because the romance and playful fun part of being married is missing and you feel more like roommates than lovers. Do you still find him desirable? Does he know that?
> 
> Sorry more questions than answers but trying to understand where he might be coming from.


\

In a way we did get into the everyday life but we do go out once in a while and do things we both enjoy. We also go out separately, not 2 much but once in a blue. I spoke to him about the fun part of early relationships being over and he said he knows that and knows it dies out and that is not what he's missing. I found him extremely desireable, my love grows for him all the time...but when he gets distant like this its extremely hard because my future and life and our family together was based on us being together, on raising our son together and we worked hard all this time to have a good life for him and for us and now he doesnt know if he wants this life anymore??? i just dont get it... we had a long conversation last night, so today I asked him if he feels any better about things after our talk last night and his answer was "i dont want to force myself either director right now" now that would be fine if we wouldnt have a child together...I mean he says his world is his son, if he cares about him so much wouldnt he want to force himself in the direction of giving his son the life we intended on giving him???


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> kuki-
> 
> Which of you is responsible for the lack of sex?


honeslty it is probably both, sometimes it me, sometimes its him. our son falls asleep in our bed and then we put him in the crib so sometimes by the time its time to put him in the crib we are both sleeping..and weeks go by without sex. I also asking him about that, I said is the lack of sex bothering u to this point he said, NO.

As much as I hate to think it and as much as he denies it, it all makes me feel like there is someone else or there is someone else lined up or he's thinking of or just overall wants to be with any other woman but me.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Cast your mind back and try to pinpoint the exact day when his mood worsened. This might take you a while.

As for the sex thing, you should do everything in your power to stop the sleeping arrangements ruining your sex life. If he did stray, it might have been because he did not feel desired or lusted after.

What comes over is that he is not being fully frank with you. Don't let him get away with it. In his mind there will be a reason. Or a woman, or both.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Im just lost at this point. Now I just keep pushing him and pushing him until I will push him further away if thats even possible and I will end up hating him and it will be a sad ending to our life together and its really not how I wanted my son to be raised and that is the reason why Im fighting for this. It just seemes that no matter what I do, its more damage then good but at the same time I cannot be in the same house with a man until he figures out if he wants to continue his life with me or not because if there is no saving our marriage, I want to start getting over him like right now, I dont want to live in torture every day. I just feel helpless and I will try everything in my power to try counseling and to save our marriage.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Also just wanted to thank you for being here and helping me deal with this. Its great to know that there are people out there that will take time out of their lives to help others with hard time. So thank you.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

He says he will do anything to help his marriage, but won't go talk to someone about it. :scratchhead:

Ok, hun. It is either live the life you are living the rest of your life, or let him go, because if he can't even try to help save his marriage...why stay married to him? Why should you live in a loveless and sexless marriage? I mean, I can see if there was a medical reason for not having sex, but to cut you off cold turkey is wrong. More so, if you don't know the reason for it.
I'm sorry, hun, but if he isn't getting it form you, he most likely is getting it somewhere else. I could be wrong and I hope for your sake I am, but I would watch what he does, if you really want to find out.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

He told oyu that he was unhappy as the reason for it and you hsould simply beleive him. Many people stay in an unhappy marriage and its wrong.
When there is no love anymroe and no happyness why stay?
You both knew each others very young but he was only 18.. no past experience no previous rreal relationships and thats what he ia lackign now. excitement. and a new life.
he wasnt ready to settly down so young thats why.
maybe all he wanted was a baby, a child and now he has it but living with you was not his dream, maybe the feelign was there before you get married but he thoguth if we marry it will be better and then maybe if we have a child then it will be better, but the oposite happened. 
I htink he is being very honnest with you, and also it must be hard, none of oyu deserve to live in an unhappy marriage, and you dont deserve to have to feel that way any longer. what if things goes a little bit better after months of counceling, would you be satisfied? are you willing to take the risk of it repeating itself agian and again like that for years?
Dont you rather end it now while its still good, and try your chance elsewhere whne you wil be over the sorrow? Youa re still very young, think about it. there is no reason to keep the agony any longer. Hes been feelign that way fro over a year out of 2 year of marriage.. so.. it says it all. 
I am sorry for you but it doesnt always work the first time.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for ur comment Ashley and honestly, I think of it that way sometimes. Its like every minute is different. One minute I feel that way, the next minute I think its because its someone else, then the next minute I want to work on it and see where it goes or I just want to give up. But because we have our baby, I somehow cant just walk away, i feel as if I would be giving up on him, I feel like I have to fight for him to have a family, the way we planned it. I am willing to go thru couseling and see if things get better, yes and if it happens again then at least I know that we gave it our all. I might be crazy or just going on and on and maybe I should just give up but part of me cannot. He was and is my world and I palnned on spending the rest of my life with him, never pictured a day without him and now one day to another he might be gone. Its just very difficult for me to digest it all I guess.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Honey said:


> He says he will do anything to help his marriage, but won't go talk to someone about it. :scratchhead:
> 
> Ok, hun. It is either live the life you are living the rest of your life, or let him go, because if he can't even try to help save his marriage...why stay married to him? Why should you live in a loveless and sexless marriage? I mean, I can see if there was a medical reason for not having sex, but to cut you off cold turkey is wrong. More so, if you don't know the reason for it.
> I'm sorry, hun, but if he isn't getting it form you, he most likely is getting it somewhere else. I could be wrong and I hope for your sake I am, but I would watch what he does, if you really want to find out.



I know ur right, I know that in the end I might end up thanking him. There may be a better life for me out there, I just dont feel that I can give up on our lives in such short time.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

kuki said:


> Thanks for ur comment Ashley and honestly, I think of it that way sometimes. Its like every minute is different. One minute I feel that way, the next minute I think its because its someone else, then the next minute I want to work on it and see where it goes or I just want to give up. But because we have our baby, I somehow cant just walk away, i feel as if I would be giving up on him, I feel like I have to fight for him to have a family, the way we planned it. I am willing to go thru couseling and see if things get better, yes and if it happens again then at least I know that we gave it our all. I might be crazy or just going on and on and maybe I should just give up but part of me cannot. He was and is my world and I palnned on spending the rest of my life with him, never pictured a day without him and now one day to another he might be gone. Its just very difficult for me to digest it all I guess.



I know, and i understand how you feel. But its because its your first real emotional and love affair, and you had no experience of it before, and you clinged on it, and based the rest of yoru life on it, so of course knowing each others for so long, being married and having a baby, doesnt make things easier. But think that exactly because of your lack of experiences and wish for all to be fine and happy ever after, you have not see the clear post signals all along, telling you that something was not working..
and its been over a year now that he definitly show all signs of total desinteressment.
You had a long time to think over it, you just couldnt accept the idea itself because it clashed with your plan, all made of how your life was going to be and was supposed to be. 

Well, thats life ringing the bell and telling you that life is not always as we plan it to be and its often for the very best.
See the positive in it. As your child is still a baby, he wont suffer of daddy abscence as much as if he had been 10 or more.
The hardest is to say goodbye to someone you have known for so long and that you feel so close to.
Try a separation, so that you can get used to it slowly, and him too, and also see if maybe it doesnt give him second thoughts, but dont hangg on that.
You must be courageous, and think that its the alone thing to do and the best for all parts. If he stayed only for the child it wont be fun for you nor him and you will be waisting 16 more years of your life, for what? do you think the child will be gratefull to know that he was the cause of your misery? that you sacrified yoru life for his sake? No, certainly not. Children can feel the abscence of love between the parents, and at some point there will be ressentments and fights between you and your husband about such an unhappy life... so no, dont stay in this unhappy marriage for the sake of the child, dont use the child as an excuse for you to dont have the courage to do what you know in your heart you have to do, nor the fear of what other migth say..
You are not giving up on anybody, you are simply acknowledging the truth, the cold fact, of the abscence of love. He doesnt love you, whats left to do?
He is unhappy, he says it. Its a gift, he could have lie to you and pretend, and then when you will be 40 or more in a big crisis lash out the whole misery and crush your heart and your whole life, realising you had lived in a lie for so long, and at a moment when it will be too late for you to build another future and a new family.
That scenario happens too..
You can remain good friends cause he dont reproach you a thing, and as he told you all you do is fine and he cant say it to friends cause they will tell him he is crasy so good you are, and you still love him, so remain good friends, you will still see each others, it will not be the same, and you will have learned that nothing in life is 100% sure and certain. All can happen.


Talk with him about it, and about how the 2 of you are going to manage that separation, and coming divorce. Talk of what will be the best to do and ask him if he is absolutly sure about his decision. He thought about it for a year, so he should know by now.
Usualy its the mother who live the man when a child is born i mean who loose interest. Becoming a father was a factor but something else played in something you couldnt do a thing about.

It must be incredibly hard on you, the good side is that you have your family just there to support you, and right now you need them a lot and are going to need them too in the near future.
You life is just begining, its only a chapter that is about to be closed, but not your whole life. He was a necessary step for you to grow and a good thing in your life.
You have to be strong and to think about you now. 

i wish you to have a lot of courage and good luck.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow thank you so much for saying all that. I am slowly coming to that conclusion that maybe its for the better and it could be worse and at least I am still young enough to have another life.

Just to give you a little background, through our 8 yrs together,there have been incidents. He cheated on me once and I forgave him, for the fact that you just told me. See I have been in two relationships before I met him, him on the other hand was in one but he was young and supposibly only had sex once before he met me. So when he cheated as painful and hard as it was I moved on because I knew he's a man and he needed the experience of being with another woman. After that incident, things went fine for a while and then he turned into an old man. He jsut worked and came home and never wanted to do anything. So I broke up with him, I told him that I think its better for both of us because we were both unhappy, so before we wasted any more time, I wanted to move on. For 4 months after I broke up with him, he was trying to get me back, he changed 100%, he became this social happy person, always was ready to go and do things and we started going out, etc. but I wouldnt give in, for those 4 months, everything I ever felt he was missing he gave me and he cried and cried and begged to get back with him because he knows that I do loved him and that we were meant to be. So after 4 months, I told him I would get back with him but only on the conditions if I ever start feeling that things arent right, we will break up and never look back. So with that agreement, we got back together. This was March 05, we were happier then ever after that, Xmas 05 he bought me a ring and August 06 we got married. Three months later I was pregnant. In the meantime we had a great time, we had a lot of love and great times together. There were times of course when things werent 100% but I know that will happen, I know we're supposed to have disagreements and arguments and all....and now this.

I had another conversation with him last night. He absolutely denies having another woman now or one in his mind if we separate. I am starting to belive him. He also said that he does love me, he cares about me and hates seeing me this way, he does not want me to cry and be upset. He said he didnt want to tell me this because he didnt want it to become what it has, which he says its more then what it really is. (in my mind, how the hell isnt it big enough when he isnt happy in his life and we might separate) but anyhow, he asked me nicely to stop pushing him because it only makes things worse and that he knows that im hurting, he knows what he is doing and he undestands the consequences. He asked me to leave things alone for a few days and give him a break. So I told him, I wont talk to him about it until the weekend but I cannot go on like this for weeks and weeks because I just feel that he is trying to buy time. We also had sex, both the night before and last night, so I guess thats a good thing.

Another thing I want to mention and this is something I never told anyone and it might be the answer to my questions. He for a while now has asked (only during sex) that we have an open relationship for a while. He said he feels that if he would have sex with someone else he would want me more. Last night, he told me to find someone to have sex with, when I asked why, he said just do it. So I have a feeling that the experience of being with other people might be what is missing from him life. Now I am pretty adventurous yes, but I never immagined I would have an open relationship in that sense while married. For all I know, it could save my marriage, I just do not know that I will or could be ok with it. Even if I would be, can I put a limit on it? Like yes, lets do this for a year. When he first started talking about this, I asked him, if he has someone in mind he wants to sleep with, he said not at all and that even if I agree to it, it wouldnt be every woman that crosses his path, just if it does come up, he knows he can do it. This is one of the other reasons why I think maybe he did have someone for a while, or it really could be just the feeling of wanting to have sex with other people. He actually told me the other day that he doesnt want things to get to the point where he does cheat and he said he wouldnt cheat now because he knows it will turn things ugly and will jeopardize his relationship with his son and that is why I somewhat believe he isnt cheating.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

A marriage in trouble deserves as much effort from the couple. While it may not be easy and your feelings may ebb and flow give it your best shot. It does have a chance to recover and if in the end it’s not meant to be you can both part knowing you did everything you could to save it. This may take time so be prepared. Good luck


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you and that is what I am trying to do. I will try my best to listen to him and give him some time as hard as it is but if its what will save us, I will do it.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

OK, so they things get worse before they get better. I think the worse part is almost over. The past two days have been hard, I have been flipping out and loosing my patience. Im starting to think maybe this is my wakeup call and I will be happier without him.

Last night he said he thinks, we are two comforatble with eachother and thats why he lost interest in me. If thats the case, Im sure there are things we can do to spice things up.

I am trying my hardest to give him a week without talking about things and just go about our daily lives but its hard.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

let me see if i understand...you were leaning toward trying to heal your marriage as i read it...he has made efforts to improve...you noticed ther improvements...you doubt whether he had an affair...you were leaning toward NO he didn't, right??? why the lean back away from healing the marriage and back toward separation/divorce???

you found what sounded like was a solution: "Last night he said he thinks, we are two comforatble with each other and thats why he lost interest in me. If thats the case, Im sure there are things we can do to spice things up."

you listened to him when he said that. his "too comfortable" statement spoke volumes. you sounded like you were ready to take action: "we can do to spice things up." good for you!

marriage IS hard. but your vows are a covenant. they aren't a contract to "try real hard." a covenant give you no option for giving up (save for adultery, physical abuse, etc.) it's gonna be WORK. mostly because until we do get married, we've never dealt with anything like this in our lives. lucky you, you've faced it early, with plenty of time to learn.

so go forth...learn and grow!


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

Always try to save your marriage, but know when to say enough is enough too. Will you husband go with you to talk to someone?
You know, it would be nice if those people make house calls, and you didn't have to go there to talk. Your husband "might" talk with the person then.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

kuki said:


> Wow thank you so much for saying all that. I am slowly coming to that conclusion that maybe its for the better and it could be worse and at least I am still young enough to have another life.
> 
> Just to give you a little background, through our 8 yrs together,there have been incidents. He cheated on me once and I forgave him, for the fact that you just told me. See I have been in two relationships before I met him, him on the other hand was in one but he was young and supposibly only had sex once before he met me. So when he cheated as painful and hard as it was I moved on because I knew he's a man and he needed the experience of being with another woman. After that incident, things went fine for a while and then he turned into an old man. He jsut worked and came home and never wanted to do anything. So I broke up with him, I told him that I think its better for both of us because we were both unhappy, so before we wasted any more time, I wanted to move on. For 4 months after I broke up with him, he was trying to get me back, he changed 100%, he became this social happy person, always was ready to go and do things and we started going out, etc. but I wouldnt give in, for those 4 months, everything I ever felt he was missing he gave me and he cried and cried and begged to get back with him because he knows that I do loved him and that we were meant to be. So after 4 months, I told him I would get back with him but only on the conditions if I ever start feeling that things arent right, we will break up and never look back. So with that agreement, we got back together. This was March 05, we were happier then ever after that, Xmas 05 he bought me a ring and August 06 we got married. Three months later I was pregnant. In the meantime we had a great time, we had a lot of love and great times together. There were times of course when things werent 100% but I know that will happen, I know we're supposed to have disagreements and arguments and all....and now this.
> 
> ...


Who did you married, if i may ask?! 

He wants you to have an open marriage now?!
so not only he bring the bomb of separation, but he also denies you the rigth to mourn, at least not in front of him, cause , ya know, its disturbing for his feelings, it might give him bad consciousness and so.. .. Hellooo!
And now that, he wants YOU to found someone for HIM!! ?
I cant beleive it!
Hell no!
You know what you could do? FOUND A MAN!
That too is open relationships, thats not just him getting his way by banging another woman IN FRONT OF YOU! but thats you doing the same in front of him. So tell him you found someone but dont tell him whom, say its a surprise, and bring up a good looking man, that you will have sex with in front of him!
How does HE feel about open relationships now, huh!?  :lol:

What he came with is disgusting specialy at a time like this, and him still having sex with you is also disgusting.
He told you he wanted out of this marriage cause he didnt love you anymore, but now he says that he loves you..  and then that he wants an open relationship with you bringing him fresh meat on a plate, and for you to dont show your sorrow and pain, at least when he can see it!
Oh yeah!
Oh NO!
Deny him sex.
He doesnt love you. He will never think of asking you for that if he loved you.
If you want to talk about the problem talk about it as much as you like. Its your right, and not talking about it doesnt make it leave, it make it grow in the dark and worsen it a lot!

It doesnt looks like he got much respect for you huh!?

Now i am going to tell you what happened: 

From what you are telling me, he is the kind whos call "the runner" in psychlogy. Meaning that if you run after him he runs away, if you run away from him, he runs after you..
There is many men and women like that out there but most of them are men.
There is also its opposite, with women/men who just cling on you, and that kind of people will always end up with a runner. So that the couple runner/clinger will be an impossible marriage, and will always leave one of the part in hell..
Here he was with you, but you ask for a breakout when it wasnt going well, which had him running after you on his knees, and doing anything at all to get you back.
He kept himself with an insurance that you werent going to run away again by marrying you,  and dobble insurance by getting you pregnat..   So now that you were both married and with child, you werent going to run away anywhere, but were more depedning on him emotionally.. and thats when.. he begin to run away from you! Of course!
Thats when he begin to lose interest for you.
And now wants out but at the same time wants in with a straw of pure perversion to it, by using total EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL by FORCING you into sexual acts with others or forcing you into letting him havinf sex with other womens in front of you, that you do not agree with and who dont sit good in you and are going to make you feel as hell, and who will put down your selfworth totaly and make you.. yeah.. even more emotionaly depnding on HIM! so that he can ask more and more from you and make you suffer as hell. 
Oh dont mistake me, they dont do that on full awareness, the runners, but nonetheless thats what they do and now you got the first taste of how it could be.
And he is an adult, he knows what he is doing and that its wrong!
And imagine the reaction of auntie on that one..  thats when you should talk and listen to the older women in the family baby.. they got something interesting to teach you about men..they have been there before you, you see.. 

The reason why he shutt up for so long was he was a bit scared of your reaction.. what if you had show him the door and told him you wanted a break like last time.. or, as promised back then, a definitive break and never turn your head on him again? hmm wasnt good for him at all cause the runners, you see, they want it both: they want their cake and eat it.
Oh they run away from you but never completely, just enough so they can still see you and still manipulate you.
My advice to you is simple: SAY NO AND STAY ON THAT.
What he is asking you is degradating, it is simply to have his unmarried life, being a single with all the one night sex he like with girls, AND having you and his kid, and the marriage, as safety ground at the same time, while your life will be hell and his paradise on earth! Coool huh?!
But not for you!
He dont have the balls to just go out and thats why he waited so long and now he come with that very shoking news like something he had thought about for very long.
No, dont full yourself into that he likes and need to meet people. If you want to meet people you go play a game and have some kind of activty outside, you dont invite strangers into your weddings bed!
Not only he do you very wrong but he even try to disguise it and present it for something it isnt at all.
Show him the door and in a few weeks he will be crawling back to you again..  its typical for his type.
You can also suggest him to seek professional help by talking to a psycholog or psychotherapist about that and getting cured from it. ( and come back home when he is cured) After all its not your problem if he got emotional anxiety who makes him react like that, and that he should have deal with professionaly instead of giving into it and staying comfortably "unaware" of it and its mechanisms, and its not your duty to bend over and give in into his perversions just cause he cant control his perversions and dont even want to make himself aware of it.
If he dont stop now it will only get worse.
He feels in power now so he start doing that, and if you ask me he was prety fast.. so if you dont want to end up with a monster, put a stop to it now.
The "runner" syndrom can be cured, its the result of some sort of minor emotional trauma from earlier in life, and can show later on in different ways. Most people are not aware of it thus everybody recognise those symptoms and will say that the woman is too much after him or too pushy and so on, but in fact it got nothing to do with that. It just reflect an inner fear who is deeply anchored.
Dont have pity on him! Please dont do that, you will only aggravate the condition!
Just tell him he got to see a specialist.
Say NO about open relationships
and talk about the situation as much as you like and need to, talk your head off of it. 
You push him? really? What about you!!? He doesnt push you maybe with pressing you emotionaly to see him having sex with another woman!?  He will get on his jonny for 2, while you will get nothing but pain!
Dont fall into that trap you will regret it for ever.
Open relationships never work at all. Its pain for the one or the other.
Beside you get married to stay together and love one another, not to fool around. Open relationships is just another word for cheating your wife with good consciousness, and make it legal to hurt her! 
Oh you say to EXCUSE HIM, he had only a few girls before you.. and so what? mena and women are the same you didnt had much either, so whats the problem? Nobody forced him to marry you and nobody forced him to come back when you broke up first time, so he got no excuse at all. he should have think about it back then now its too late. And its not ýour problem.
What if you were to come with that kind of BS? what do you think his reaction will be? He seems to be super liberal for him but super conservative for you! 

In worse he ask you to chose the partners.. hehehe.. how incredibly smart and perverse! So not only you have to be cheated by him, but it has to happen inside your home, inside your bed, and in front of you, and you also have to chose whom he will cheat you with!!  Say'n WHAT!!??
This is soo gross, I will have punch him one direct in the eye, he i had been you! How gross!

Fine!
Chose a man or a very fat and ugly woman that he can have fun with!  :lol: :rofl:
or even better, both!
So you have sex in front of him with the good looking muscoulus young guy, while he can bang the ugly lady. :smthumbup:'

and when everybody is gone you can look at him really happy in the eyes and say, "hmm it was a very good idea you had darlin, i want to do it again tommorrow. That guy was fantastic!" 
DANG!  

From what he told you he take it as obvious that ONLY HIM will sleep with someone else, while you will remain the obedient wife that he can have sex with whenever he likes it no matter what he does.
Show him what open relationships is and that it goes both ways. He never thougth about it. And its him who ask for it! :lol: return the situation on him like a pancake on his face and see whos having fun with the other ones feelings now and who is manipulating the other one emotionaly.
Show him the finger with a classy smile. 
I cant beleive that he ask you that. 
No is the answer, dont fall into that trap just cause he took care to make you feel desperate first. 

Invite one of his friend who like you so much as a sex partner, that should give him the wake up call from hell!
LOL :rofl:

DONT LET HIM ABUSE YOU IN ANY WAY.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

voivod said:


> let me see if i understand...you were leaning toward trying to heal your marriage as i read it...he has made efforts to improve...you noticed ther improvements...you doubt whether he had an affair...you were leaning toward NO he didn't, right??? why the lean back away from healing the marriage and back toward separation/divorce???
> 
> you found what sounded like was a solution: "Last night he said he thinks, we are two comforatble with each other and thats why he lost interest in me. If thats the case, Im sure there are things we can do to spice things up."
> 
> ...



what are you talking about covenant and God here? he is asking her to get along with him in an openrelationship,a s still married, and to ahvesex with other women in frotn of her!! that she will have to chose for him! 
so please spare the covenant thing i dont htink its the time and there is a limit to what "working hard to save yoru marriage!" imply. it does certainly not imply to get screw up and to get cheated and to ahve to accept to be cheated regulary.
thats not marriage.
Its the guy who got to make an effort not her.
he is just abusing of her.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

he is asking for something. if she discovers that she cannot provide that "something", maybe then the answer will become clear to her. but she has shown a desire to make the marriage work. maybe her desire to make it work will make him straighten up and fly right.

the covenant is such that you don't just throw in the towel when one or the other partner asks an outrageous request of the marriage. make personal decisions that force his thought back into the reality of the covenant. i don't believe what he wants at this moment will be what he wants forever.he'll see the error of his way. if he does it soon enough and decides that it's time to get help for his problem, maybe they can live "happily ever after."

no doubt, this is going to be emotionally trying for her. again, she suggested she was leaning toward healing the relationship. obviously, part of the healing will be to let him find that what he is doing/thinking is wrong within the covenant.

he has suggested to her (during sex) that they have an open marriage and has told her she's free to find another sex partner. the things that are said of fantasy in the throes of passion. i'm not excusing that, but this does open the door for her (here goes that COMMUNICATION thing again) to ask for clarification. is this a horny young man expressing his fantasy?

she said:

>>>>>He for a while now has asked (only during sex) that we have an open relationship for a while. He said he feels that if he would have sex with someone else he would want me more. Last night, he told me to find someone to have sex with, when I asked why, he said just do it. So I have a feeling that the experience of being with other people might be what is missing from him life. Now I am pretty adventurous yes, but I never immagined I would have an open relationship in that sense while married. For all I know, it could save my marriage, I just do not know that I will or could be ok with it.<<<<

no one said she HAS TO be OK with it, but further the communication. but protect the marriage with communication is my thought. 

i'm working from memory here too, but didn't she say she didn't suspect he had comitted adultery?


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

omg, my head is spinning but its good. I appreciate everyone's input.

Here it is:

I will NOT agree to an open marriage.

I will NOT let any other woman in the same house that him and I live in.

I will not be looking to have sex with someone else.

IF we end up separated (not divorced) but separated for a while and he chooses to have sex with other people is a different thing but I WILL NOT stand for him having sex with someone else while we are together.

I do not believe he has cheated.

He actually sent me a text this morning saying "Good morning" and he's been kissing me Hello and Goodbye for the past couple of days. Im starting to see some improvements, even though its not everything but every little bit counts. As long as I know he is making an effort on making things right.

I also told him that he is running out of time because I dont feel I can just sit back for much longer until he makes up his mind. I told him I suggest he starts looking at places to live, then he played the " I dont know where to go, I never did this before" so I just simply said that isnt my problem, shouldve thought of that when u deceided to tell me ur not sure this is the life u want.

So while thing seem to improve at times, others times I dont feel that things will get better. I know everything takes time but I feel like Im being dragged with a hook whichever way he wants.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

kuki said:


> omg, my head is spinning but its good. I appreciate everyone's input.
> 
> Here it is:
> 
> ...


okay!!!

NOW YOU'VE SET YOUR BOUNDARIES!!!

now make demands...

1) i demand you quit the talk of sex with someone else

2) i demand that you find another place to live

3) i demand that you see counseling (with or without me)

those are 3 very do-able demands. if he does not agree, tell him the consequences. you'll leave, you'll cut off his willie, whatever. but give him some consequences that will be painful. you are now about to simulate the "rock bottom" that addicts experience just before they cleam up and fly right.

keep us posted. now is the most crucial time in your marriage.
and congrats on taking the covenant seriously. not just giving up, but taking action. go to the website Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram 
i am not affiliate with it at all, but there is so much good stuff there.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

I agree totaly with you.
What you are saying and plan to do is right.
Dont found you in anything, and him telling you he wants to go, or dont want to live with you anymore and have been like that for a year without telling you, and now saying he dont know where to go.. thats incredible! Good for you to have told him that it wasnt your problem, and time for him to take responsability for his actions and behavior.
In short he dont know whats wrong with you and in fact said there is nothing wrong, and he dont know whats wrong with him. Greate!.. 
I think he is spoiled rat, thats the problem, he has too god a life, no problems, and he cant just enjoy it.. intead he create problems who arent there for no reasons.
Typical men..
Maybe he should think about all the million people around him in the US who got housing problems, big loans to think about, not enough food on the table, alcohool or drugs problems, lifelong serious illnesses, handicaped childrens to deal with, a wife that doesnt want to have sex with them, or a wife who is depress all the time, all those who lost their jobs, people having problems with their outside families, and all the problems so many have to struggle with where here there is none at all but he create one..
Some people are like that, they cant enjoy a life without problems where all is fine, they live with a cloud above their heads and got a problem at letting it go. They dont like to be happy they enjoy to complain. 
Your man seems to be one like that.
Dont let him let you wait, thats a very good decision you took.
He said there is nothing wrong with you at all, and that he is satisfied with everything, and that he loves you.
Right
Then what is the problem man!?
Let him solve his own quiz and brain problem himself.
He is just feeling bad with himself and not with you but he dont even can admit it.
Thats himself he have to change inside. whereever he will go he will feel the same and he must know so since he is in no hurry to leave.
It will be good if he leave away for a while and see it for himself and make the needed changes for him, but it wont be good if he cheat on you. If he loves you he wont do that.

Its good that you draw the line on the sand, and show him where your limit goes. Thats the right thing to do.
Marriage oer not marriage, there is a limit to what people should accept to pull with, and selfrespect is important. If he dont respect you enough to do the right thing, then the hell with him.
He has a beautifull kind wife and a beautifull kid, all is fine, a house above his head, a good life, a nice family, united, and he wants more but dont know what, except cheating on you with sex games.
Geez! some men are really incredible what they imagine we women should accept from them! Just because its a marriage.
Would anyone ask that form his gf?
Certainly not.
That will be too disrespectfull.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

vovoid, it got nothing to do with covenant and communication.
you are mixing sh.it and cinamon here.

He wants to get her to watch him while he is having sex with another woman and no, he didnt suggested that as a joke while having sex.. he has talk about it often.. 
and whats worse even in that time who is very hard for her
you dont blow a bomb like that in the bedroom short after having told your wife about your plan about leaving her and asking for divorce. Its call emotional blackmailing and its very disrespectfull, and not acceptable.
I dont see what the covenants and religion bal bla got to do with that. Are you trying to justify the guys actions and wrong doingswith Gods words, jsut cause you are a man?!! 
I never heard Jesus saying if your man wants you to strip and do it with other men, do it. If your man want to bang other girls in rornt of you accept it for the sake of the marriage.. no its written that cheating is forbidden and that a marriage cease immediatly if one of the part cheat on the other and thats it.
And its written that each part must respect each others equaly.
meaning 2 way street.
He got nothing to complain about and dont even know whats wrong with him, so dont mix some guys personal inner problem with the wifes responsability. Its his responsability to get himself together and resolve his personal issue, instead to make it flow over everybody around: family , wife, and kid.

Would you ask that kind of things to your wife?

For me to see its like a guy becoming alcoholic for fun and telling his wife to becomes one too or he leaves her, or a drug addict teling his wife as a condition for him to save the married, that she becomes a junky.. no thanks. Thats not right and never will be, thats emotional blackmail, and please keep the covenants out of this dirty business. The covenants were never made to cover up bad people and bad mens dirty tricks.


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

voivod said:


> okay!!!
> 
> NOW YOU'VE SET YOUR BOUNDARIES!!!
> 
> ...


You are taling a whole different story now vovoid.. and in case you didnt noticed, thats what we were talking about with kuki since the beginning.
its funny cause now that she decided to give up on him you are talking like she did the opposite.. Up to now she didnt wanted him to leave, you see.. she was horrified by the idea.. lol

Its nothing to do with taking the covenants seriously, but with taking your marriage seriously and having care and respect for yourself and for the other person in your life, thats all.
She never gave up, but he surely did.
Sometimes all you need is your common sense, thats all. And thats what she used here.
Commons sense, selfrespect, and selfawareness.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Ashley said:


> vovoid, it got nothing to do with covenant and communication.
> you are mixing sh.it and cinamon here.
> 
> He wants to get her to watch him while he is having sex with another woman and no, he didnt suggested that as a joke while having sex.. he has talk about it often..
> ...


nah...we ought to start our own thread...combine old punk with some marriage philosophy...so we don't hijack someone elses. maybe call it "the Banana Splits."

she obviuously wants to take her vows seriously, whether we want to acknowledge that it's covenant or not is irrelevant. she's doing the right thing. and giving her marriage and her happiness the best chance. good for her.

and to say i'm saying this because i'm a man...i don't get a vote in the relationship. she wants to save it. these are tools to help her to that end...that's like me saying your opinion is the way it is because you're a chick...


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## Ashley (Oct 21, 2008)

well you can say it and i wont say your wrong, cause i talk that way cause i am a woman and i can clearly see what that man is doing or trying to do to her..  :rofl:
And how she should respond to that.
Its not new.But when you are her age you dont know about those things. When you know on your own, its too late.. 

He is in hard needs of selfdevelopment while she isnt. Thats cause she had a baby and him not, partly. A woman go through a lot of changes during pregnacy, both physical and emotional, and it take its tool on how you develop as a person, and grow, while men are less touched by it. And seen his young age, he is still revolving on half young single philosophy and half grown man and dad.. he needs to work on himself. And to realise that she dont need yet,( i mean anymore yet) and that he got first to realise that this is the real problem here. 
Many couples go through crisis, and its always to do with selfdevelopment on one or both parts at the same time. Once they are done with it, life can go back to normal, only some notch better than how it was before. If we, as humans, were more aware of those necessary adjustements and it was known more broadly, when problems occur we will not panic so much or blame it on each others, or on the weather, or on anything material and practical, who in fact got nothing to do with it, but as side kicks for the real issue.

You are right, we shoudl open our own thread about music from when i was punk and you too, and debates of that kind.
I think she got confused at some point. But on the other hand, its always good to hear different view points. It broaden your horisonts, and give you the chance to grow! which is the central point here.  :smthumbup:


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

WOW....what is he thinking??? The whole open marriage idea is just BEGGING for dissaster! Ashley summed up how I was feeling after reading all your posts in this thread...girl...you need to be strong and stick by your convictions!!!
The impression I got in him asking this of you is that he wants it to be "fair" when he sleeps with someone else. He has done it, or is planning/thinking about it..so if you do it too, it makes it all ok!?!?!?!
I can tell you this from experience, and I am not one to advocate divorce..but..get out while the getting is good! This relationship you have with him will more than likely never change. You are stronger than you think, and by staying with him for the baby..you are setting yourself up for major disappointment in years from now. I have been married for 20 years, and first thought about leaving when my kids were 7 and 8. Now they are 14 and 16, and I regret staying with him. I did it for the kids(and the fear of his threat that I would never see them again) and now I am one of the most miserable persons in the world(i feel that way anyways, even tho I am not)!
You are young and still have time to recover from this..but for him to ask you for an open marriage is totally unacceptable. There is no respect for you from him, are you willing to live with that? I would certainly hope not!
A marriage that stays together because the love you have for each other is a familiar type love is bound to end in heartbreak. You can love someone but not be able to spend the rest of your life with them, and that is ok. That kind of love is a friendship love, and is NOT what a marriage should be based on if you expect it to last for years and years. If you keep going back and forth with him, you will end up with trust issues. There will come a time when you wont believe he will change when he claims he will, it will be a never ending viscious circle that will never get resolved!
Be strong and hold your head up high! You deserve much more than this man is capable of giving you.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Sprite said:


> WOW....what is he thinking??? The whole open marriage idea is just BEGGING for dissaster! Ashley summed up how I was feeling after reading all your posts in this thread...girl...you need to be strong and stick by your convictions!!!
> The impression I got in him asking this of you is that he wants it to be "fair" when he sleeps with someone else. He has done it, or is planning/thinking about it..so if you do it too, it makes it all ok!?!?!?!
> I can tell you this from experience, and I am not one to advocate divorce..but..get out while the getting is good! This relationship you have with him will more than likely never change. You are stronger than you think, and by staying with him for the baby..you are setting yourself up for major disappointment in years from now. I have been married for 20 years, and first thought about leaving when my kids were 7 and 8. Now they are 14 and 16, and I regret staying with him. I did it for the kids(and the fear of his threat that I would never see them again) and now I am one of the most miserable persons in the world(i feel that way anyways, even tho I am not)!
> You are young and still have time to recover from this..but for him to ask you for an open marriage is totally unacceptable. There is no respect for you from him, are you willing to live with that? I would certainly hope not!
> ...



Thank you Sprite and everyone else as well. I think we are on the way to recovery. This weekend was kind of eventful. Well actually Fridaty night was. We were supposed to go to a wedding but I got sick and couldnt really get out of bed and at the same time with everything going on a wedding wasnt exactly where I wanted to be. Anyway, when he went in the shower Friday night, I checked his phone and found some disturbing texts, not from a woman but from one of his coworkers. Now this guy from when I know him was always a joker never really takes anything serious, always playing pranks on people etc. Some of the messages were "kill the b!tch and keep the house", another one was "If I text you (what u doing) it means Im with single girls" Now that was my breaking point, I flpped out told him he had no respect for me, that he's immatured and everything else that I felt. He swore they are all jokes and this guy is always messing around because he is always home alone with his wife and he plays jokes. He said he understands 100% why I feel the way I do and cannot blame me for how I feel and that everything Ive been telling him made him realize how stupid he's being and that I am right he hasnt shown me enough respect and havent been treating me the way I deserve to be treated. I also told him the the open marriage thing will never happen and he laughed it off, he said " did u really think i was serious" We both agreed that our lives have changed since we have our son, our sex life is minimal, like once a month, we are not going out really and we have a lot of things going on with the house and all. He agreed that everything piled up and he started feeling depressed and he used me as a reason. He admitted he is wrong for it and wants to do whatever it takes for us to be happy again, he says he definately knows he loved and cared about me and once our apartmet will be finished and we get our privac and lives back things will be great. He also said he never meant for things to get this bad but he does not know how to deal with it when things get rough (which is true, he wasnt raised with any of that stuff or his mother never showed any of her kids any love or affection).

So with all that said, last night(Sunday night) I was feeling a bit better but things still bothered me and couldnt fall asleep, put our son in the crib and l came out to the computer. He came after me and asked me to go bacck to bed. I told him i couldnt sleep and need to think,he insisted I go back. So I did,we spoke for a while...swore again there is no one else, he said when would I do it, im either at home or work which is true and he told me again that he has no intentions of leaving and that we will work things out and will be patied and understanding until I trust him again. He wants us to start going out for dinners and movies or whatever else may be, even going away for a weekend just the two of us. He said whatever it take, he's willing to do it.

So theres my story, I guess we will be taking things one day at a time and see how it goes. I told him, if this ever comes up again, our only thing is counseling and I wont take nothing less and he agreed.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

counseling might not be a bad step right now...i've heard from several counselors that "waiting too long to go to counseling" isd the biggest problem with reconciliation. if something happens down the road, you'll have the tools to work on it.

having said that, you seem so calm and NOT unhappy with the outcome so far. so lemme say CONGRATS!!! this one's turning out fine!


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

I will NOT agree to an open marriage.

I will NOT let any other woman in the same house that him and I live in.

I will not be looking to have sex with someone else.

GOOD GIRL ! I'm proud of you.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

voivod said:


> counseling might not be a bad step right now...i've heard from several counselors that "waiting too long to go to counseling" isd the biggest problem with reconciliation. if something happens down the road, you'll have the tools to work on it.
> 
> having said that, you seem so calm and NOT unhappy with the outcome so far. so lemme say CONGRATS!!! this one's turning out fine!


Thank you. I know that it will all take time and its not going to be easy but at least there is hope and a good chance that if we work on things our marriage will be a success. If there is a next time, I wont be this patient,that I know.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

kuki said:


> Thank you. I know that it will all take time and its not going to be easy but at least there is hope and a good chance that if we work on things our marriage will be a success. If there is a next time, I wont be this patient,that I know.





Honey said:


> I will NOT agree to an open marriage.
> 
> I will NOT let any other woman in the same house that him and I live in.
> 
> ...


Thanks. There is only so much I am willing to do for him and none of the things above are part of it.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

kuki said:


> Thanks. There is only so much I am willing to do for him and none of the things above are part of it.


I hear ya, hun. I wouldn't want to share someone I love with someone else.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Honey said:


> I hear ya, hun. I wouldn't want to share someone I love with someone else.



I've made that very clear to him again Sunday night.

In this whole process we also figured out that our sex life kind of went to once a month, which isnt much of a sex life at all for a 26 yr old man and 28 yr old woman, so I have to admit that partially its definately my fault and thinking back to previous conversations about our sex life, he even told me a couple of times that we need to start having sex more often because he is suffering and wants it more. And stupid me just kind of brushed it off because I felt that I had good enough excuses by being pregnant, then being tired and latest "I fell asleep while waiting for the baby to fall alseep so I can put him in the crib". So after having amazing sex Sunday night, I told him that he be better be ready because some major improvements are on the way as far as our sex life lol :smthumbup:


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

Just a quick update. I finally made the call the a marriage counselor. While things have gotten somewhat better, its still not what I feel they should be or that we're on the right track. Since our last talk, he has deifinately improved, said the right things that he doesnt want to leave, that he does love me, he want to make things right blah blah. While I know these things dont happen overnight, i also dont see him trying at all to make me feel that he does love me and that he does want to be with me. I asked him yesterday what is his plan on making me feel that he want to be with me and I got the typicall " I dont know" answer which usually means nothing and that its not even on his mind. I have been feeling bummed for the past few days because I knew this was going to happen and thats why I decided to make the call. I feel the longer I let it go the worse its going to get. It might be ok with him going on like this because it doesnt require him doing much about anything except have conversations with me. I dont want that life for myself any longer, if he's in it,he's got to work at it and prove it to me that he is there because he wants to be. Thank you all for listening.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm glad you made the call for counseling. I agree, if you don't feel he is putting forth effort it can easily go south as you may not desire sex, etc.

The other thing you might try is to take action on your end to make him happy without any expectations from him...give, give, give...if all he feels is love from you he may step things up on his end because he wants you to feel as loved as you make him feel.


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## kuki (Oct 28, 2008)

swedish said:


> I'm glad you made the call for counseling. I agree, if you don't feel he is putting forth effort it can easily go south as you may not desire sex, etc.
> 
> The other thing you might try is to take action on your end to make him happy without any expectations from him...give, give, give...if all he feels is love from you he may step things up on his end because he wants you to feel as loved as you make him feel.


That is not a bad idea but to tell u the truth, I feel like thats what Ive been doing most of our relationship. I have been so good to him, I dont ask him of much, I constantly tell him that I love him, I kiss and hug him, I tell him how proud I am that he's a hard working guy but sometimes I just want my turn. He never compliments me, never tells me he loves me unless I ask him, never kisses me, hugs me, holds my hand or any kind of affection on his own. The only time he showed any of it was when I left him a few yrs ago and when our baby was born but other then that he's just cold. Like I said before I know he wasnt brought up with any of these but he's gotten enough love from me to know what to do and I know he's got it in him from the times that he did show it. I guess he's got to want to do it or show it and if he really does love me some of it should come naturally...I dont know, sometimes I think Im just crazy or expect 2 much out of him but then I see other couples and I cry because I dont get any of it from him.


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