# Where am I going wrong?



## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

I have been married for 7.5 years now and we have a daughter, 3 years old. I am expecting my second one now (due in August). 

I had probably been delusional that one fine day everything will be fine. Of course that fine day never came. To get to the root cause of the current problem, I have to tell you all a few facts, please bear with me for the long post. 

I do not appreciate if he touches me at places where I dont like to be touched and when I tell him to stop, I need him to listen to me and stop. That almost never happens. 

15thDec2014, he was trying to tickle me and I absolutely hate it. I asked him, please can you stop. He took offense and he claimed that I dont want him to touch me. That is not true. I told him that 100's of thousands of times but of course he doesnt listen. He hasnt been talking to me since 3 months now. 

I tried several times to talk to him. He just does the basic minimum. Meanwhile, I found out I am pregnant. I wouldnt even have tried if we knew this marriage is going to go downhill. 

He just shuts me out. When ever he is angry, he shuts me out for days/weeks and this time months. I am so very tired of this treatment. 

I seriously dont know what to do. If possible, I would like to save this marriage. Can someone suggest me what my next steps could be to resolve these things? 

Two more things, he refused counseling. He also is estranged from him sibling and parents. Of course he says all the fault is theirs. He shut them out completely from our lives. 

I feel so miserable all the time thinking about future, future of my children.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening unhapysoul
Has he always behaved like this?

Other than the tickling (which he certainly should have stopped) does he touch you in ways you don't want? 

Do you have an active sex life with him?


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening unhapysoul
> Has he always behaved like this?
> 
> Other than the tickling (which he certainly should have stopped) does he touch you in ways you don't want?
> ...


Thank you. I was starting to wonder if I wrote something wrong and hence no one is responding. 

Yes, he does a few things that I dont want. For example, if we are in the living room watching TV, I do not like it if he gets sexual. I told this to him, if we can go to the bed room. he doesnt listen. Its always his way. Many a time I just let it be and suck it up because when I say No, he wouldn't talk to me for several days. I know this is not normal and I should be able to say no. But he is punishing me by not talking when I voice my concerns. 

And yes, he has always been like this but the frequency with which its happening has increased in the last year or so. 

As for the sexual life, it seemed OK to me. I mean, we dont have regularly as he works night shifts and I work day shifts. After the birth of my daughter, it did come down compared to the days before my daughter.

Edit: from the past 3 months, he would not even properly talk to me, let alone touch me. We communicate only when something needs to be communicated. Like the ultra sound results etc.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

unhappy_soul said:


> He just shuts me out. When ever he is angry, he shuts me out for days/weeks and this time months.


He gives you the silent treatment for months?

Wow he's got issues.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If he will not talk to you, there is nothing you can do. Fixing a marriage takes a lot of communication.

My suggestion is that you get into counseling. I can you handle this and figure out what to do..

Since he's not talked to you in months, it's probably time to give him an ultimatum, either he communicating works with you to fix the marriage or you will file for divorce.

He does not sound capable of working on it to be honest.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Working opposite shifts is hard on any marriage. Now he won't talk to you at all, it must be beyond frustrating! I would schedule counseling and let him know that you will be working on YOURSELF if he refuses to work on your MARRIAGE together. Let him know that he is welcome to come along at any time if he is interested in salvaging your relationship.

If, by any chance, things get better and he decides to step up, I would reconsider one of you switching your work shift. Good luck!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening unhappy_soul
does it matter to either of you whether you are intimate in the living room or bed room, or has this just become a point of contention as a sign of other deeper disagreements.

I'm trying to understand if sexual issues are the root of the problem or just a symptom of something else. 



unhappy_soul said:


> snip
> For example, if we are in the living room watching TV, I do not like it if he gets sexual. I told this to him, if we can go to the bed room. he doesnt listen. Its always his way.
> snip
> .


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

lenzi said:


> He gives you the silent treatment for months?
> 
> Wow he's got issues.


Most of my friends say that, but, he says its me who pushes him to do that.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> If he will not talk to you, there is nothing you can do. Fixing a marriage takes a lot of communication.
> 
> My suggestion is that you get into counseling. I can you handle this and figure out what to do..
> 
> ...


He is not open to counseling. He says he doesnt believe in others judging him. I tried even last night to talk to him. I asked him if he would like to talk about how he wants to proceed. He just said No, and walked away.


scatty said:


> Working opposite shifts is hard on any marriage. Now he won't talk to you at all, it must be beyond frustrating! I would schedule counseling and let him know that you will be working on YOURSELF if he refuses to work on your MARRIAGE together. Let him know that he is welcome to come along at any time if he is interested in salvaging your relationship.
> 
> If, by any chance, things get better and he decides to step up, I would reconsider one of you switching your work shift. Good luck!


I am seriously considering counseling myself. I would have never planned this pregnancy if I had known he is going to this this un-supportive through out the pregnancy. My doctor started getting concerned as I am losing too much weight and by now I should have put on at least 10 pounds.


richardsharpe said:


> Good evening unhappy_soul
> does it matter to either of you whether you are intimate in the living room or bed room, or has this just become a point of contention as a sign of other deeper disagreements.
> 
> I'm trying to understand if sexual issues are the root of the problem or just a symptom of something else.


It does matter to me not to get intimate at all in front of my young daughter. he says she is too young to even understand whats going on. But thats not the issue, I never really liked doing anything on the couch any way other than watch TV/read a book. I think thats what the trigger is most of the times. It drives him mad when i say can we move to another room.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> Most of my friends say that, but, he says its me who pushes him to do that.


I think the fact that he has shut you, his siblings and his family out, for whatever reasons and blames all of them and you, that the problem is clearly him.

Elegirl is right, in that communication is the only saving grace. You can't work on something if you aren't talking about it or being together at all? Spouses that do things to punish the other show a lack of love and respect. I could see a cold shoulder for a few hours or even a day, but months, no way?
Do you hate all sexual advances outside of the bedroom or is it you just don't want to "do it" elsewhere? Guys tend to get easy hurt feelings when they are physically rejected and I'm the same way, less the post behavior pattern. Have you told him what kind of touching you are okay with, so he knows??


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If he can go for 3 months without taking to you he has MAJOR issues. 

I don't know what all your background story is but as someone who has dealt with someone who would habitually/routinely I've me the silent treatment, I can tell you, it actually gets worse over time. 

Does it make you feel like you're going out of your mind when he does it? 

has he always done the silent treatment or is it new?


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

yes, I did tell him several times (at least a 100 times in the 7 years of being married) that I do not like to touched on my breasts outside the bedroom and do not want to be tickled at all. When he is in a good mood is when I told him hoping he would understand and respect that. But no. It seems like he is looking for excuses to fight with me and he knows which buttons to push and he does it. 

This recent fight is a perfect example. Just that day before I had reminded him gently again about touching my breasts outside the bedroom. The day after he did that again on the couch. I said stop and then all hell broke lose. 

I understand that physically pushing him away can be hurtful. And following that, I have apologized saying I didnt mean to push him away, i just didnt want him to touch me there, at that time. 

This behaviour isnt normal is it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

His not talking to you for 3 months is very unhealthy. Toxic to a relationship.

You rejecting anytime he tries to touch you is also unhealthy. Do you ever have sex?


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> If he can go for 3 months without taking to you he has MAJOR issues.
> 
> I don't know what all your background story is but as someone who has dealt with someone who would habitually/routinely I've me the silent treatment, I can tell you, it actually gets worse over time.
> 
> ...


So, what do I do? I feel so lost. He is refusing counseling again. 
He has always given me this silent treatment from time to time but this time is the longest.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> His not talking to you for 3 months is very unhealthy. Toxic to a relationship.
> 
> You rejecting anytime he tries to touch you is also unhealthy. Do you ever have sex?


I do not reject him every time. I promise you that. I do not reject him at all. I just dont want to do it in the living room. He knows it that I dont want to do it there.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi there.

Read my posts in this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...aggresive-emotional-unavailable-husbands.html

They start on page 6, or so.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> So, what do I do? I feel so lost. He is refusing counseling again.
> He has always given me this silent treatment from time to time but this time is the longest.


Well you need to communicate with him. And tell him you aren't going to tolerate his not talking to you for month's on end. Own your half of the bullsh*t and tell him that you both need to change how you respond to each other if this marriage is going to work. 

People who shut you down though like that, in a pattern, generally don't change that behavior. And that IS emotional abusive when it's done in a pattern like that.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Although I'm sure he feels rejected and shuts down because you have some extreme limits on when and where sex and certain types of touching can occur, it is still not OK for him to pout and ignore you like a child.

It's interesting he thinks a counselor is going to 'judge' him. That isn't what they are for. They gently guide communication so the two of you can open up and discuss the things that bother you and come to an agreeable solution and learn to keep using those communication skills after your time with the counselor is over.

Can you assure him it's not about being judged? Why is he so defensive, I wonder? Could you compromise on the sofa? Can't you make out and touch there and then move to the bedroom? I'm assuming the young child is asleep, not just crawling or walking around? If so could you put a blanket over the two of you? I don't see why not having sex on the sofa is so bad to you. He obviously is frustrated because you compartmentalize sex for the bedroom only. Two major things going on here.

Definitely check out the link from alphaomega about passive aggressive behavior.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Well you need to communicate with him. And tell him you aren't going to tolerate his not talking to you for month's on end. Own your half of the bullsh*t and tell him that you both need to change how you respond to each other if this marriage is going to work.
> 
> People who shut you down though like that, in a pattern, generally don't change that behavior. And that IS emotional abusive when it's done in a pattern like that.


You are so true. I have my own share of bull going on as below was poited I compartmentalize a few things. Sometimes I let go and sometimes I say no thinking why I am I going through something I dont like. I obvioulsy need some help myself. I will go through the link.


EnjoliWoman said:


> Although I'm sure he feels rejected and shuts down because you have some extreme limits on when and where sex and certain types of touching can occur, it is still not OK for him to pout and ignore you like a child.
> 
> It's interesting he thinks a counselor is going to 'judge' him. That isn't what they are for. They gently guide communication so the two of you can open up and discuss the things that bother you and come to an agreeable solution and learn to keep using those communication skills after your time with the counselor is over.
> 
> ...


The young child is playing in the room, usually she blocks us out when she is playing with her dora and boots. He is also probably wondering why making out on the couch is so unbearable for me. Sometimes I also wonder the same. I am just unable to come up with an answer. I guess its a mental block that I need to work on. And I will work on. 

I have tried telling him about counselling not being judgmental. He says, all fault is mine, so, I should go.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Read my posts in this thread
> 
> ...


Thank you. will read


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

unhappy_soul said:


> Most of my friends say that, but, he says its me who pushes him to do that.


of course he does....


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Well you need to communicate with him. And tell him you aren't going to tolerate his not talking to you for month's on end. Own your half of the bullsh*t and tell him that you both need to change how you respond to each other if this marriage is going to work.
> 
> People who shut you down though like that, in a pattern, generally don't change that behavior. And that IS emotional abusive when it's done in a pattern like that.


I will try communicating with him this evening. AGAIN. I hope he doesnt walk away. AGAIN. Sometimes I feel like I am a door mat. The one whom no one respects and steps on whenever they please. He would expect me to bounce back like nothing happened when ever he chooses to. But when I try...never mind. I will now be repeating myself again. 

Like I said, I will ask him how long does he want to give this silent treatment. If this is going to continue for the rest of our lives. And if yes, I dont want that life. I will also own my part of nonsense (not wanting to be touched at certain times). lets see. I will update tomorrow what happens. 

Is there anything else I should add?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> I will try communicating with him this evening. AGAIN. I hope he doesnt walk away. AGAIN.
> 
> He would expect me to bounce back like nothing happened when ever he chooses to. But when I try...


I hope he listens to you and hears you out. Also, like the other poster said, I'm not surprised he blamed HIS pouting behavior on you and is ok with speaking to you again only when HE wants. Typical typical typical for this type of behavior. 

I have lived this before and it is NOT fun. 

It's not loving to actively chose to ignore your partner for that long. It destroys relationships. And it doesn't make a good marriage. It's also a form of control/emotional abuse. 



unhappy_soul said:


> Sometimes I feel like I am a door mat. The one whom no one respects and steps on whenever they please.


Get rid of this this attitude. Tell him he's not being respectful of you/your marriage when he acts this way.

Also, this dynamic is setting a HORRIBLE example for your child. You're pregnant and I imagine this is causing you insane amount of stress.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The Deafening Brutality of the Narcissist’s Silent Treatment | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed

The Silent Treatment Emotional Abuse in Relationships/ marriage - how to cope.

http://www.azgrowth.com/4Horsemen.pdf


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

He has control issues, if you don't have sex the way he wants it then he shuts down. Now his is being pouty by not talking to you. He needs counseling. He isn't going to change, so you have two choices, live like this or leave.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> I hope he listens to you and hears you out. Also, like the other poster said, I'm not surprised he blamed HIS pouting behavior on you and is ok with speaking to you again only when HE wants. Typical typical typical for this type of behavior.
> 
> I have lived this before and it is NOT fun.
> 
> ...


I dont know how to split up a quote, so I am just going to write one line by another. 

Yesterday morning when I tried to talk to him, I touched his hand. He instantly jerked his hand away and acted like he was taken aback. I said, can we please talk. He said, not now, dont start this so early in the morning, I have not even had coffee. 
I just told him, there is no good time to talk with him and moved out of the room (edit: no, he moved out of the room). I just felt so heart broken, thats why I even opened a thread here, hoping I get some kind of direction. Few days ago same thing. Can we talk? No.

I didnt talk to him when I went home from work. Completely ignored him. Trying to make small talk like how is your day was not working and I had no patience anymore. Maybe he noticed I didnt even say hi. He asked how the day was, said he bought pizza and wedges. Asked me if I want juice. That was new. 

This evening, I am going to initiate the 'talk' again. lets see how that goes. Honestly, the thought of separation is so scary to me.

It indeed is a horrible example for a child. That is why I want to fix this (if he lets me) before she is old enough to understand. No wonder I am losing so much weight, so much sleep everyday. My doctor started to get worried.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> He has control issues, if you don't have sex the way he wants it then he shuts down. Now his is being pouty by not talking to you. He needs counseling. He isn't going to change, so you have two choices, live like this or leave.


I want to try to change this behavior. Also, I dont want to live all my life with him and then one day it dawns on me "what have I done". 

I am going to talk to him this evening. I will update what happens.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> Yesterday morning when I tried to talk to him, I touched his hand. He instantly jerked his hand away and acted like he was taken aback. I said, can we please talk. He said, not now, dont start this so early in the morning, I have not even had coffee.
> I just told him, there is no good time to talk with him and moved out of the room. I just felt so heart broken,


Honestly, you are married to a dlck. Jerking his hand away from you, telling you he doesn't want to "start" anything when you are simply wanting to talk to him, and ignoring you for THREE MONTHS. THREE MONTHS!!!!!! That is NOT ok. 

I am here to tell you, it's unlikely he will change because this behavior suits him. He does it as away to control you/the environment/the relationship. It's his trump card. 

Start NOT giving a fck. I was with someone who did the SAME thing to me. And the only thing that worked was leaving (for my sanity).



unhappy_soul said:


> I didn't talk to him when I went home from work. Completely ignored him. Trying to make small talk like how is your day was not working and I had no patience anymore. Maybe he noticed I didnt even say hi. He asked how the day was, said he bought pizza and wedges. Asked me if I want juice. That was new.


See how when you do what HE does, he seems to act different? Because he doesn't like being treated like you do him. Did he say anything else or keep ignoring you?

How old are you guys?



unhappy_soul said:


> Honestly, the thought of separation is so scary to me.


It IS scary. But what's scarier is living in a marriage with someone who treats you like the scum on their shoe. Choosing to ignore your partner is denying them basic human decency of talking/communicating. 



unhappy_soul said:


> No wonder I am losing so much weight, so much sleep everyday. My doctor started to get worried.


Well, yeah. And your husband should be mindful of this. He KNOWS you are pregnant and not gaining weight and is still choosing to treat you this way. Your daughter is going to grow up thinking this is normal behavior if it keeps up and learn to walk on eggshells like you or be all kinds of emotionally all over the place because of this.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Yes, giving him the taste of his own medicine sure seems to work differently. I am 33 and he is 36 (will be 37 very soon). 
I am confused now, I was thinking I should talk to him this evening. Are you suggesting to hold off the talk and give him the silent treatment? 

He does talk in the sense that he communicates only when something has to be communicated. Like, he told me not to give my DD the cold medication as she started feeling better. But that’s pretty much it. I have not heard of anyone who would do this to a pregnant wife. With my first pregnancy, it was so different. But that was also over 4 years ago. 

My first priority is my children. My parents said they will come help me with the delivery in Aug for a few weeks. I am going to have a C section like my first one, so it will be nice to have some help. I will let them see what’s going on. I am financially independent and I know I will get the custody of the children, in the worst case we do get separated. 

I don’t want to be a bad role model for my daughter (S). Incidentally this was how his mother was treated by his father. He hates his father because of that and now, he is doing exactly what his dad was doing to his mother. She is old fashioned and they never separated. Maybe he is thinking I wont ever take that step, especially with 2 young kids. 

Also jellybeans, when I talk to him, I intend to own the responsibility partly. It is not nice to say ‘don’t touch me here/there/now”. I could work from my side; he also should wrok from his side. I also need him to tell me he will not give me this silent treatment for so many months again. My better part of the brain says he will never change. I just don’t want to give up without completely trying first.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> It does matter to me not to get intimate at all in front of my young daughter. he says she is too young to even understand whats going on.


A 3 year old is capable of understanding a lot of what is going on. Having sex with a 3 year old present is consider child abuse. How does he not know that?

When one of my nieces what that age, she was playing with Ken and Barbie having them do what mommy and daddy do.. naked, etc. That changed how the parents did things fast.



unhappy_soul said:


> But thats not the issue, I never really liked doing anything on the couch any way other than watch TV/read a book. I think thats what the trigger is most of the times. It drives him mad when i say can we move to another room.


Ok so he wants spontaneous sex. Why wouldn't he? 

How much nonsexual touch goes on in your relationship? Is it mostly sexual when he touches you? about what % of the time is his touch not sexual but affectionate (holding hands, a peck on the cheek. Snuggling without groping).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> Most of my friends say that, but, he says its me who pushes him to do that.


Of course he says that you push him to it. He is not taking responsibility for his CHOICE to behave that way.

He could chose to actually communicate with you, what a novel idea!!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> I do not reject him every time. I promise you that. I do not reject him at all. I just dont want to do it in the living room. He knows it that I dont want to do it there.


You have said that you would not want to do it in the living room even if your child was not there. 

It is actually very normal for couples do have sex all over the house.. It's spontaneous. Spontaneous is sexy. 

I am getting the impression that on your side this is about two things:

1) His touch is almost always sexual. And when it is not sexual it is unwanted tickling. 

2) You feel very ignored and disrespected because you have told him to stop both but he ignores you and continues. He's not paying attention to your stated boundaries.

If a man's touch is almost always sexual, it's a HUGE turn off. I'm HD and love sex. But it would really cool my jets if a guy did nothing but grab my boobs, butt, crotch, etc. It's the total lack of non-sexual intimacy, and the unbalanced excess of grabbing that are problem.

The tickling... ticking when someone does not want it... and/or when taken to excess is a form of physical abuse.

When a person, your husband included, touches you in a manner that you have told him not to do.. it's abuse. Tickling when done in this manner is torturous. While the tickled might be laughing as a non-controllable physical reaction to the tickling... it's not funny.

Basically you feel that your control/power over your own body is being taken away some times. So you fight that by trying to have strict rules about where you have sex. But he's still keeps pushing ... and you interpret that (rightly as lack of respect and losing power/control/autonomy of your own body.)


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Basically you feel that your control/power over your own body is being taken away some times. So you fight that by trying to have strict rules about where you have sex. But he's still keeps pushing ... and you interpret that (rightly as lack of respect and losing power/control/autonomy of your own body.)


You nailed it. I could not have said it better. This is what is happening and this is what I need to somehow resolve. 

Having said all this, he is a good provider. Never a day when I had to worry if we can pay bills. Makes sure we go on vacations at least twice a year. Adores my daughter and so does she. It would be devastating to see them apart, in the event we separate.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

He uses the silent treatment because HE is getting some kind of benefit from it. If he was not getting a pay back, he would not do it.
What is he doing? He has your full attention. He’s silent and you are racking your brain thinking about how to get him to end the silence and communicate to you. The silent treatment keeps him in control. He has you right where he wants you. It’s about CONTROL. Long term silent treatments (more than an hour or so) are abuse and it’s about controlling you and the situation. He’s in control now and he’s not about to give it up.

What you do is that you stop concentrating on him and stop trying to get him to talk to you and pay attention to you.

You get into counseling. It will help you a lot. And the counselor can give you ways of dealing with your H if you stay with him. Ask the counselor to help you learn how to set and maintain healthy boundaries. You can also find good books on the topic.

How to Create Healthy Boundaries « Positively Positive



unhappy_soul said:


> I am confused now, I was thinking I should talk to him this evening. Are you suggesting to hold off the talk and give him the silent treatment?


Do not ignore him. 

The reason for him doing the silent treatment is for him to control the situation and hence you. Right now has control of you because you are focused on his silent treatment and jumping through hoops trying to get him to break the silence. Boy is this fun for him!!! You need to take his fun away.

Look at the 180 link in my signature block below. Start interacting with him in that manner. Do not ignore him. But you need to take back your power and control of your life. By doing the 180 you will break the control cycle of the silent treatment and you trying to get his attention and to get him to engage with you.

The 180 also means that you just get busy. Start doing things without him. Go out, get busy. He’s not talking to you? Ok you don’t owe him much now. So go out even if it’s just to visit you mom. But just leave a note “I’m going out for a few hours. Have DD with me.” Do not give him any more info that that. If he calls you, do not answer. If he texts do not answer. When you get home, he will most likely start asking you were you where, why you did not answer your phone, etc. Just tell him “I was out with friends and busy.” This is not a game. This is to break your focus on him to let him know that you will not allow him to control you. 

Get the book “Divorce Busters”. Pay special attention to the chapter on how to use unilateral change and the 180 to save your marriage. It just might work and is worth a try. By the way do not let him see the book. If you are going to do the 180 the way the book says.. you do not want him to read it.

After that, get the books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. It seems that neither you nor your husband are skilled in identifying your own personal issues, expressing them to each other in a way that the other can meet. Nor are you both skilled at meeting each other’s needs.

For example you characterized an issue to be that your husband touches you in a sexual manner. I don’t think that is a clear statement of your problem. The problem is that he ONLY touches you in a sexual manner. And he keeps crossing your boundary and tickling you.

So the identified need is that you need non-sexual touch from your husband. The lack of non-sexual touch has lead you to reject the overabundance of sexual touch. There… now you have something you both can work on. He can learn to hold your hand, hug you 2-3 times a day in, snuggle close to you, etc. Put on some music, slow dance, nibble on each other’s ears. What a nice, loving thing do in front of your daughter! 

He wants touch and sex. You want nonsexual tough and sex. The trick is that the more he gets into non-sexual touch, the more you will want sex and even accept a bit of that teasing sexual touch.

It’s obviously that your husband has some pretty bad learned behavior. What he’s doing with the silent treatment he learned from his father. If he wants a marriage with you he is going to have to unlearn that. Hopefully you can be instrumental in showing him a better way. 

Also keep in mind that working opposite shifts is very bad for marriage. You do not get enough time together doing that. If there is any way for the two of you to get on the same shift, do it. If you cannot, structure your lives so that the time you are both off work is concentrating time for the two of you.

If you try all that and he’s still acting like a passive aggressive, grabby controller… then you need to seriously think about exercising that independence and leave him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> You nailed it. I could not have said it better. This is what is happening and this is what I need to somehow resolve.
> 
> Having said all this, he is a good provider. Never a day when I had to worry if we can pay bills. Makes sure we go on vacations at least twice a year. Adores my daughter and so does she. It would be devastating to see them apart, in the event we separate.


Yeah. My guy was that way, too. Made a ton of $$ and I didn't worry about any bills. He thought because he could buy me things that I should be ok with him ignoring me for so long over and over and over again. But when he's stonewall me for days/weeks on end, it really wasn't worth it in the end. We had a very envious material life together (envious by other people). But all the money in the world doesn't buy a respectful relationship where there is mutual love.

No I don't think you should give him the silent treatment back today. I would just tell him that you need to have a serious conversation with him about what is going. Own up to your wrongs and accept full responsibilty. Then tell him what he is doing is hurtful and detrimental to your marriage. That is is not good for a marriage or your pregnancy or your daughter because it sets a bad example. Also, it's just plain disrespectful.

Stonewalling someone is seriously the most invalidating thing someone can do to another person - especially over time. Living in a house like that will drive anyone fcking crazy.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Thank you so very much for the detailed response. I really appreciate it. As you said, a change in my own behavior did give me different results. I have said that in one of the posts above. It will most probably work, or at least I hope it will work in the long run. 
For this evening though, I would really like to address this. One last time. Just one last time. For myself, if not for anyone. I need to know how long is this expected to last. 

I want to talk to him and own my side of mistakes. You are right in a way. Most of the touch is sexual. I guess I got used to it, I automatically assume its sexual when in reality, it may or may not have been. I need him to know that I acknowledge my own faults like turning away and hurting him. I need him to tell me he recognizes that there is problem. I don’t know if he is even considering there is a problem. If after all this, he is still adamant about silent treatment, I have no other choice but follow the 180 method, as a last resort. If it works, good. If it doesn’t, good, in its own way. 

I need him to tell me that he is not going to subject me to this kind of treatments again. 3 frikking months. 
I will also order the book. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Keep us posted.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Keep us posted.


I will let you know tomorrow what happens this evening. I am dreading going home, but I must do this sooner or later.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Good luck with all that, girl. 

I'll tell you what's going to happen when you bring up the talk. 

He's going to ***** and moan, then storm out of the room or house. Then you can look forward to a few more months of silent treatment. 

You can't win this one with logic. Trust me. I've been your husband. 

Honestly, I think your husband makes AVRs husband look like a rookie, if my suspicions are correct.


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## octaviaa (Mar 3, 2015)

Him not speaking with you for 3 months is passive aggressive. It's abusive behavior, and certainly not healthy for you or your children. He is trying to make your life as miserable as possible for something he was in the wrong for (he should have stopped when you asked him).

Pregnant or not, you don't have to put up with it and be miserable. Is there somewhere you can stay for a bit? Is there a way to get out of that situation? If he won't go to counseling for HIS issues, there's not too much you can do for him all on your own. All you can do is take charge of your own happiness, and well being.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

". I said, can we please talk. He said, not now, dont start this so early in the morning, I have not even had coffee. "

I quoted this behavior in AVRs thread. In this instance, I hate being right. No one should have to experience a true passive agressives' manipulations. 

Sister, I've been the passive Agressive azzhole. I was a master at the Kung Fu Crazy. You've got a long, hard road ahead of you. I see he's already got you second guessing your thinking. You know the behavior is wrong...but maybe....just maybe...it's all in your head...or something YOU did. And your mind is spinning in circles. 

What if I just do this. Or that. It will all get better then.

That's not how it works, friend. And you can't fight insanity with sanity. We will come up with numerous ways to turn anything you throw at us back right at you. We don't think logically. We aren't emotionally mature enough to have that conversation with you.

Soon...we will have you on Prozac. Because that's what we do. That's how we operate.

I feel for you. I know exactly what you are going through. And, unfortunately, unless your husband has a come to jebesus moment on his own terms, and accepts his faulty rationale in his behavioral responses, it's just going to be more of the "same old, same old"


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Your husband sounds like my father-in-law. He can go weeks not talking to my mother-in-law. When my husband and his brothers were kids he would do the same to them. The whole family was walking on egg shells. When someone came home, the question was "How is dad today?" They were constantly trying to gauge his mood. That's no way to live. My FIL didn't speak to his only sibling for almost 30 years. He has stopped talking to friends because of stupid perceived slights.

I think my MIL should have put her foot down the first time this happened and when it didn't stop, she should've left. 

I don't really have any advice except maybe to go to counseling yourself or leave the marriage because when your children get old enough he will give them the silent treatment too. Meanwhile, ignore him. Laugh and have fun with your child. Make plans, go out. Act like you don't give a **** that he's having his little temper tantrum. Don't get sucked up in his drama. The reason he does it is because he knows it upsets you. This is pretty much what my MIL does now.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

soccermom2three said:


> Your husband sounds like my father-in-law. He can go weeks not talking to my mother-in-law. When my husband and his brothers were kids he would do the same to them. The whole family was walking on egg shells. When someone came home, the question was "How is dad today?" They were constantly trying to gauge his mood. That's no way to live. My FIL didn't speak to his only sibling for almost 30 years. He has stopped talking to friends because of stupid perceived slights.
> 
> I think my MIL should have put her foot down the first time this happened and when it didn't stop, she should've left.
> 
> I don't really have any advice except maybe to go to counseling yourself or leave the marriage because when your children get old enough he will give them the silent treatment too. Meanwhile, ignore him. Laugh and have fun with your child. Make plans, go out. Act like you don't give a **** that he's having his little temper tantrum. Don't get sucked up in his drama. The reason he does it is because he knows it upsets you. This is pretty much what my MIL does now.



This is true gospel. Heed these words. They are full of 100% wisdom.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

So, I tried to talk last night. It didn’t go very well. I was being positive and was thinking maybe he would just listen and willing to give our relationship a chance. But no. He made up his mind. 

I asked him if he is planning on giving me this silent treatment for the rest of our lives. He said, yes. I asked him is there no way we can go back to where we started, how we decided to get married and start over. He said, No. He said I treated him like **** by saying no to his touch several times. I apologized and said that wanst the intention at all. He said he will never ever touch me again. I told him, he is only talking about his pain, if he has considered whether I was hurting at all with all these silent treatments for 7 + years now. He says that’s his way of coping. 

So basically, he made it very clear that things will never be the same as they were 3 months ago. I told him I cannot live like this in this house without talking/ communicating. He said we are communicating plenty. I told him, please lets go counseling. He said No. “I am very confident person and counseling is for people who need validation from others. If you need someone to judge you, please go ahead and trash talk me there”. I told him can we please find a middle ground. He said, what is middle ground? He doesn’t want things to be normal and I don’t want to continue this way and he doesn’t want counseling. 

Now, I don’t know what to do. With a baby on the way, I don’t want to split up yet. Not yet. Maybe one day I will find courage to break this home but that day is not now. I guess my last option is counseling and try that 180 degree approach to find happiness in things other than him.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

octaviaa said:


> Him not speaking with you for 3 months is passive aggressive. It's abusive behavior, and certainly not healthy for you or your children. He is trying to make your life as miserable as possible for something he was in the wrong for (he should have stopped when you asked him).
> 
> Pregnant or not, you don't have to put up with it and be miserable. Is there somewhere you can stay for a bit? Is there a way to get out of that situation? If he won't go to counseling for HIS issues, there's not too much you can do for him all on your own. All you can do is take charge of your own happiness, and well being.


Funny, when I owned my 'mistakes' and said I am sorry to have hurt you, he wouldnt even acknowledge. Not once he said sorry in the whole 30 min talk yesterday. According to him, its my fault for where things are. When I asked him if its ALL my fault, there was no answer. I guess it means he believes that it was all my fault. 

I dont want to (not yet) split up now. My DD loves him and he loves her. I just am not able to consider separation because of this. I would be depriving her of his love if I break them apart now. 

I feel so sad, we built our lives from scratch. We saved money, bought a lovely home, cottage...so many memories made. Is this all really to end like this? We even made plans where we would go after retirement....is this really then end? I dont think so.

I kept telling myself, dont shed tears, dont shed tears. They would not stop flowing! damn. He kept laughing with a glass of wine in his hand. I told him, his laugh is making me feel like an idiot. Then he said, he is laughing because I dont know what I want. he says, when I touched you, you had restrictions, when I dont touch you, you are unhappy again. There is nothing I can do to make you feel happy. 
Of course, he has no concept of what boundaries are.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Sister, I've been the passive Agressive azzhole. I was a master at the Kung Fu Crazy. You've got a long, hard road ahead of you. I see he's already got you second guessing your thinking. You know the behavior is wrong...but maybe....just maybe...it's all in your head...or something YOU did. And your mind is spinning in circles.
> 
> What if I just do this. Or that. It will all get better then.
> 
> ...


Alpha, I know you posted about your experience before but why did you treat your wife this way? Did it make you feel better about yourself to make her feel bad? What was your come to Jesus moment? And do you still do it? As someone who was on the opposite end, I simply can't fathom why anyone would do that to someone they supposedly loved. Because it's the opposite of love. It's horrible.



unhappy_soul said:


> *I asked him if he is planning on giving me this silent treatment for the rest of our lives. He said, yes.* I asked him is there no way we can go back to where we started, how we decided to get married and start over. *He said, No.* He said I treated him like **** by saying no to his touch several times. I* apologized and said that wanst the intention at all. He said he will never ever touch me again*. I told him, he is only talking about his pain, if he has considered whether I was hurting at all with all these silent treatments for 7 + years now. *He says that’s his way of coping. *
> 
> So basically, he made it very clear that things will never be the same as they were 3 months ago. *I told him I cannot live like this in this house without talking/ communicating. He said we are communicating plenty*.* I told him, please lets go counseling. He said No.* “I am very confident person and counseling is for people who need validation from others.* If you need someone to judge you, please go ahead and trash talk me there”.* I told him can we please find a middle ground. He said, what is middle ground? *He doesn’t want things to be normal and I don’t want to continue this way *and he doesn’t want counseling.
> 
> Now, I don’t know what to do. With a baby on the way, I don’t want to split up yet. Not yet. Maybe one day I will find courage to break this home but that day is not now. I guess my last option is counseling and try that 180 degree approach to find happiness in things other than him.


Figures. I expected as much. He has essentially todl you that he does not give a fck about your feelings, that he is going to continue as is, that he's not interested in counseling (most abusers aren't) and then he childishly tells you he's never gonna touch you again becaucse of something that happened in DECEMBER when it's near Spring now. 

This is the life you are looking forward to with him.

It doesn't get better. It gets worse. And you have a baby girl and are pregnant and none of this bodes well for that. 

He does it because he enjoys how it pisses you off. He knows he can get away with it because you tolerate it. For 7+ years now. He is an emotional abuser. They are some of the WORST kind of abusers.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

unhappy_soul said:


> Funny, when I owned my 'mistakes' and said I am sorry to have hurt you, he wouldnt even acknowledge. Not once he said sorry in the whole 30 min talk yesterday.


Most abusers don't apologize because they see nothing wrong with their behavior.



unhappy_soul said:


> According to him, its my fault for where things are. When I asked him if its ALL my fault, there was no answer. I guess it means he believes that it was all my fault.


Well, duh. He never thinks anything he does is wrong, it's everyone else that is the problem. Typical abuser. Also, blaming you for his behavior is CLASSIC ABUSE 101.




unhappy_soul said:


> I dont want to (not yet) split up now. My DD loves him and he loves her. I just am not able to consider separation because of this. I would be depriving her of his love if I break them apart now.


She is going to grow up thinking that this is ok how her daddy treats mommy - OR, she is going to resent you and/or him for making her grow up in that kind of environment. 



unhappy_soul;12098513[B said:


> ]I kept telling myself, dont shed tears, dont shed tears. They would not stop flowing! damn. He kept laughing with a glass of wine in his hand.[/B] I told him, his laugh is making me feel like an idiot. Then he said, he is laughing because I dont know what I want. he says, when I touched you, you had restrictions, when I dont touch you, you are unhappy again. There is nothing I can do to make you feel happy.
> Of course, he has no concept of what boundaries are.


Your husband is a supreme a$$HOLE. He does not care about your feelings. I know about the denial, you wanting to disbelieve what you are actually experiencing because at one point, it was actually good, and I'm betting he treated you pretty well. And then slowly one little silent treatment krept in, and another, and on and on and he started being a d*ck all the time. 

Wuld you treat him how he treats you? Would you treat ANYONE the way he treats you? Truly, answer that. 

You are married to an emotional abuser. Your husband is abusive. You are not ready to really see that, hence all the whole "i don't want to leave yet" and "I don't want to deprive DD of his love" and "I feel like an idiot - why can't he understand" "I want to go to counseling, but he doesn't."

What you don't realize (yet) is that you also have a choice in the matter. A choice to continue being treated this way or to tell him you're not gonna deal with his bullsh*T anymore. And mean it. 

I wish there were a magic button but there isn't. It takes most abused victims a LONG time before they actually decide to raise the flag.

What I will tell you though is he has no motive to change because you fall at his feet trying to understand him when there is nothing other than what you see - he does not care about how you feel so broken up about this and has told you point blank he's gonna keep doing this. It's whatever he says goes, and he could not care less about you because he thinks you are going to just deal with it. It's why he's done it for seven years now.

He is not a happy person. For whatever reason, he enjoys having this power over you. Despite the fact that he knows it makes you feel like sh*t. He gets off on it. 

Laughing at you when you cry? No man who truly loves his wife would do that.

Your husband is an emotionally retarded abuser.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

He is feeding off of having you at the palm of his hand. Why would he let that feeling go so easily if you have contributed to it for so long? It should've been nipped after a few hours. 
You have tried talking to him, giving him his space, etc. With no results. Time to move on girl, 180 style. Stop thinking about him, he is not thinking about you in a healthy way! He is acting like he hates you. WTH is that, in your own home. Might as well start preparing your food separately, or do you still cook for him and bring him the plate??


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Angelou said:


> He is acting like he hates you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MarriedVeryConfused (Mar 13, 2015)

All of the replies I have read seem quite biased and in your favour. From a male perspective, the biggest question here is... 

Do you show sexual interest in him, and make the first move ever? If you don't then are you surprised with the neglect he's receiving?


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Thank you @Jellybeans and @Angelou. I am sure going to leave him. Its just a matter of when. I am of course buying time when I say I am pregnant, have a daughter etc. I just feel so confused and distraught right now. More like heart broken. I really did think he would at least give us another chance. Who would have known.

I spoke to my mom just now. All she said was, "hmmm..." "ohhh" "ahem" "lets see". 
That was even more depressing.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

MarriedVeryConfused said:


> All of the replies I have read seem quite biased and in your favour. From a male perspective, the biggest question here is...
> 
> Do you show sexual interest in him, and make the first move ever? If you don't then are you surprised with the neglect he's receiving?


I did, though, not as many times as he did.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

MarriedVeryConfused said:


> All of the replies I have read seem quite biased and in your favour. From a male perspective, the biggest question here is...
> 
> Do you show sexual interest in him, and make the first move ever? If you don't then are you surprised with the neglect he's receiving?



There's a difference in him feeling neglect and working it out like an emotionally mature adult, and the Passive aggressive crap he's pulling...which makes him emotionally stunted at age 5.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Jelly,

My jebezzus moment was divorce

My behaviour was all about control and manipulation. Yes, of course it's meant to punish. 

To me it seemed normal, but outside you can see it's destructiveness. 

No. It's not real love behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unhappy_soul,

Look at the post above this one. Read it until it sinks in. 

He treats you the way he does because you allow it.

He thinks that you would never dare to leave him because he sees you as weak. So weak that he laughed at you.. his wife.. when you were addressing real problems.

If you want to change this... the quickest way to do it is to leave him. Leave him now before it gets so bad that you have no love left for him.

Can you go stay at your mothers for a while? If so go there with your daughter.

If you do this he will most likely be in shock. Then do not even consider going back to him unless he agrees to marriage counseling for one year.

If he backs out once you go back to him. File for divorce.

If you divorce your husband you are not taking his daughter away. Their relationship will change some. But he will still have her. But most importantly you will teach your daughter to not put up with a man who abuses her.

Until you do leave.... do the 180 and just live your own life. Get busy, go out, have a life. Leave him alone at home as much as you can.. show him what he is saying he wants.. life without you.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Jelly,

No. I think I'm cured. It too me about 12 months of self reflection and self analysis..lots of book..and lots of googling to fix me.

I'm a much better person...and a much better father.

In fact, now...I have serious discussions with my children when they pull the passive Agressive tactic on me when they are mad. I explain to them how important is is to communicate thier anger towards me, instead of going silent on me. I may not like what they say...and they may not like my response....but in the end we all still love each other and that's what's most important. Everything else is conquerable.

In fact..my relationship with my ex is...ironically better...than it was with her having to deal with a PA azzhole. 

Regrettable. Yes. When the cure was so simple. Because she still has the hottest body I've ever seen...and if I could..i would still tap her sexy azz.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> unhappy_soul,
> 
> Look at the post above this one. Read it until it sinks in.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this is only 90% true.

What's not going to happen is his shock phase. He will blame you for everything. And way past the separation phase it will continue.

I blamed my wife for months. It was all her fault. She was the beotch. It took an extra leap of a jebesus moment for me to realize I was a d(ck. 

And that started out with me wondering why ALL my relationships ended the same. Everyone I meet can't be running on the same cylinders. I mean...I dated punks. EMOs.. Preppies...librarians...you name it. I drove them all away.


You see..in his mind, it's all your fault. If you just acted the way he has planned out in his utopian mind movies..then everything will be fine. Unfortunately..you have no idea what that utopia looks like in his head....and he will never ever tell you. That's the catch 22. Your in a losing battle. And no amount of logic will get through to him. No actions of sanity. Nothing.

He's got to figure this one out on his own. And not everyone can see the fault in thier own stars. It takes a special leap in cognitive thinking to reach that point. And then to realize you need to do something about it.

In some aspects...I think I was lucky...that I had the wherewithal to finally see myself from the eyes of others. I not sure how easy it will be for most.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Unhappy,

Your daughter will still love her father. And hopefully father will still love his daughter. That never changes.

What will change is the utter utopian serenity you will feel not having to fall prey to his Kung fu mind tricks.

Believe me. My ex is in zen...not having to deal with me. 

Yes, I asked her. Her response was exactly what I expected knowing now what kind of messed up monster I was.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Talking about emos...

I wish someone would invent EMO grass. I would plant that stuff all over my lawn. At least then...it would cut itself.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

Thank you so much everyone. I just feel very overwhelmed right now. I am right now thinking what my course of action should be,. While i know I will have to leave him sooner than later, I want to be emtionally strong enough befroe I take that step. What a mess. i will find myself. One day at a time.


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## unhappy_soul (Mar 11, 2015)

I just booked an appointment with the counselor for the next week. Of course i am going to go alone. Lets see how that goes. Its very expensive though, $150 an hour and my insurance covers only $500 per year. Not sure what I am going to do.


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