# how does earning a living impact men?



## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

Another female here barging in to the Men's Clubhouse to ask a question...

Another thread of mine details the problems in my relationship and there's not really any need to elaborate for the sake of this question...In a nutshell, my fiance's ability to earn a living in this economy has suffered drastically. It turns out that this is the root of a lot of his (and consequently "our") problems.

I know individuals vary greatly, but I'd appreciate input from a sampling of men here. To what extent is your ability to earn a living tied to your identity or well-being? I don't mean the accumulation of material objects or the size of a person's salary. I mean generally providing for the needs of your family?

Thanks. I don't doubt how important this is to him. I'm wanting to be supportive. Just wondering how ingrained this might be in men in general...


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> I mean, what value are you if you can't take care of your family.


Thanks for the reply. I guess that leads to the question, what (if anything) could make a man feel valuable in that type of circumstance?

In my case, he can repair or build almost anything under the sun. I am truly in awe of that, among other things I love about him. I tell him often, but not so often that it's insincere.

Is this one of those situations to just be nice and just be there until it gets better?

Oh, and I'm promoting counseling for him and he seems mostly agreeable to that.

*edited to add: what you just described, Dean, is him. It's so plain and obvious when you list it out like that. In real life, though, there's all this subterfuge and cover up and day-to-day crap that makes it all so...messy and confusing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

althea said:


> Thanks for the reply. I guess that leads to the question, what (if anything) could make a man feel valuable in that type of circumstance?
> 
> In my case, he can repair or build almost anything under the sun. I am truly in awe of that, among other things I love about him. I tell him often, but not so often that it's insincere.
> 
> ...


Can he take the gifts you list (repair or building things) and use them to provide for the family? Either earn extra money, use it in trade for other goods and services, or use it to give the family something you would otherwise go without? 

While I typcially think of providing in the context of my paycheck, I know my wife loves me getting out the tools to fix something or make something for the family. Perhaps you can help him by pointing out things for him to do that would provide in a different way.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

i wish my ex wife could have understood this. 
it was the source of a lot of my downtime during our marriage.
She would get yearly raises, and i didnt, yet i had been at the job for sixteen years and it was at least dependable.
she started earning more than I was, and I was proud of her and totally respected that, until she started bringing it up when an emergency happened.. 

I think I lost a huge amount of self respect, and felt like a failure at life.


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

@ Dean and Tall Average Guy- Thank you for the thoughtful response. He's out there every day scrounging up side work- he does have a reputation in our very small town for his skills. Our whole area is suffering, so not that many people can even afford much work to be done. I pat him on the back for how he manages what he does in this climate.

He's in an interview right this moment with someone he met on another side job (praying here). I feel like something will work out eventually...he does not, and even if he did, it's not helping how he feels about himself right now.

He's on the verge of striking out somewhere else in another state and coming home on weekends. The irony of having to move away from his kids so that he can afford to pay child support stings him, but he'll do what he has to.

I just didn't know how this affected him to his inner core. I thought I was helping by holding the household together, but that's not really the solution he needs. I also feel like any work he does on the house to make it worth more or easier to sell is almost as good as bringing in money. That's also no consolation to him.

He's not much for communicating, although he has been trying, so I think he couldn't put what you've described into words...or maybe he's not even aware of it in himself. 

Thanks again 

@Shooboomafoo- thanks also for helping me understand, especially since I'm the one making money right now.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Being able to provide for my family is huge to me. Thankfully, I have never been without a decent paying job. Also, I am willing to do whatever it takes to keep the money coming in. I live in the U.S., but work offshore overseas.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The ability to protect, secure, and provide for my family is HUGE for me.
It`s intricately tied to me ego and self respect.

If I was put into a situation where I was unable to do so it`d would probably have a very negative impact on my mental health.

If I couldn`t resolve it relatively quickly serious problems would probably arise.

I make good money in a management position now but I would do any and all work I could just to keep the mortgage paid and lights on if I were to lose this job.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've read your story and while yes earning a living is a big deal for men this guy isn't willing to do anything to fix it. He's wallowing in self pity and drinking instead of trying to better himself. Plus he's got trauma in his past. 

Your problem goes deeper than just how much money he makes although I'm sure if he were the main breadwinner it would help.

Last time I checked though drinking and wallowing in self pity didn't pay very well. He's going to actually get up and DO something.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Althea - I think that this can really surprise people, and can have a bigger impact than people ever realized.

I worked for a company and lost a job through downsizing once... it was about 12 years ago. I had been there 10 years. I had a hard time finding something else, and was unemployed for almost a year. Thankfully the first and last time I have ever been uin that position. (not atypical these days it seems. Back then - very unusual). As I look back on it now - I can see that I got progressively more discouraged and my self confidence and self respect took a serious hit. Not getting responses back on resumes and applications - you start to question your abilities.. your worth.

I started doing other things around the house just to keep busy... little fix up jobs and projects, but from drawing unemployment (itself an other-worldly experience for me) to constantly scrounging around for leads for a job.. you start to feel like a bottom feeder and a loser.

I dont remember ever being pressured from my wife in any way, shape or form. Im sure we were both nervous - I mean.. we both worked full time but I easily cleared 3 or 4 times what she made and we had a mortgage to pay. Maybe I am conveniently forgetting some of that time - because it seems so long ago and vague now.

This was all long before we had kids.

If that sort of thing happened with kids - it would be twice as bad. I cant imagine it. Its not really about some macho man notions of being the provider, but going from (lets say) years and years of steady work and having a robust 'contribution' to beng a 'bum' (nobody says this of course) really messes with your head. Believe me - your sense of self worth, like it or not, is shaped by what you do... and having some of that self worth involuntarily torn away from you is not easy. Ask 50 people wat they do and 50 of them will reply with their job... be it homemaker or electrician or hightech or retail or restaraunt or sanitation worker or whatever. 'Unemployed' can feel strangely like 'i am nothing at the moment'. Sounds silly right? It is not.

I expect, at some point, your hubby will get a job again.. hopefully one that is as satisfying professionally and financially as the last one. Maybe not, but hopefully. In any case - he will find something. What is happening right now... the financial stress, I can imagine is brutal for both of you. It is the kind of thing that keeps you up at night and just never really receeds. Chronic situational stress is not a good thing. You need to try and be positive and supporting. He needs to try and be positive and keep active. It is what it is, and just have faith that it will be resolved.

Keep in mind that its already a difficult time, which of course you know. Dont let it snowball into the seeds of resentment and blame and anger and guilt and all the other bull$hit that can so easily happen for either of you. In 10 years, maybe you will both be able to look back on it as an educational, though painful time... but that is only going to happen if you can weather it together. I think that fact that you make enough to hold it together is a serious blessing. Take on a little extra burden and talk to him - remind him about his worth and dont let him wallow in it. 

And you cant look for work every frigging day. I mean, you can, but it doesnt help. Find some other things maybe that he can be productive at and that can help give back a little sense that SOMETHING is getting accomplished. What... clean/scrape/repaint a bathroom if it needs it. Shampoo the carpets or something... you dont need to spend alot of money but doing something that feel like a domestic improvement can at least distract a worried mind. You know - some of that stuff you just dont have time for when you are both have full time jobs out of the house. In a couple days.. back on the job hunt, no time is lost.

good luck!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Our marriage has been dealing with something similar... my H works in construction and we've felt the recession badly.

We got into financial trouble and when finally the **** hit the fan I saw my H cry for maybe the 3rd time in 25 years.

It just crushed him to not be doing the one thing he wanted to do more than ANTHING in the world. To bring in enough $$$ to pay the bills and provide and happy and stable life for his precious family.
To be our hero.

So I tell and show him I love and appreciate him everyday. We both make sure we still have fun and we laugh a lot. 

I also remind him he's more than 'Tom' the builder.... he's also a wonderful husband, dad, son, brother, friend.... fisherman, beekeeper, ginger beer maker, sportsman, DIYer, fine vegetable grower, chicken wrangler, trivial pursuits night champion etc...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

althea said:


> I know individuals vary greatly, but I'd appreciate input from a sampling of men here. To what extent is your ability to earn a living tied to your identity or well-being? I don't mean the accumulation of material objects or the size of a person's salary. I mean generally providing for the needs of your family?


Like many of the men on this thread, my husband would agree, him being able to provide for our family is HUGE . It is a source of accomplishment and pride -this role for him, he is old fashioned, prefers me to stay home, he gladly takes the role upon himself and wouldn't want it any other way. He has never been laid off so far, so I have never seen how it would affect him.... I just KNOW it would... I've asked him this question before. 

I know it would be my place to step up, be looking for a job along side of him , encouraging him he'll find something , we'd be a team while getting through that. I know my support , during that difficult time, would mean the world to him. And as always, we are both very frugal with our spending. 

My husband brings home these informative, sometimes inspiring write ups -from work, sometimes he shows me, I never forgot this particular one , even though it was like 10 yrs ago that he handed it to me on a peice of paper......how "work, a Job" is very important but not as fragile as some other things in our lives.... 

Work is a Rubber Ball that Bounces Back - Sources of Insight


> Imagine life as a game in which you are juggling some five balls in the air. You name them – Work, Family, Health, Friends and Spirit and you’re keeping all of these in the Air.
> 
> You will soon understand that work is a rubber ball. If you drop it, it will bounce back.
> 
> But the other four Balls - Family, Health, Friends and Spirit – are made of glass. If you drop one of these; they will be irrevocably scuffed, marked, nicked, damaged or even shattered. They will never be the same. You must understand that and strive for it.”


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

It means everything to me!


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Yes it does effect us tremendously. In 1990 I lost a job and had to move in with our in-laws in another state. I tried a couple of sales jobs, but nothing was really satisfying. I then, with the encouragement of my wife, decided to go back to school. I was 38 and I said to my wife, "Do you know how old I will be in four years when I am through?" She replied. "yes...the same age you will be in four years if you don't go back to school!" (She is awesome) So I get my bachelors and masters degrees while she worked and kept us going financially. As I look back it was the best thing that ever happened to me (with the exception of meeting my wife).


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I completely underestimated how this affected my husband. Althea I'm so glad you're recognizing this and asking the question. I was naive to this! For a time, I was employed and my husband wasn't. Without going into details of that scenario, I had actually encouraged him after he'd applied for countless jobs, to basically 'kick back' for a short while. He has always been the main bread winner for us and I thought maybe he could just enjoy some time-out. He used to get frustrated and annoyed with me when I'd suggest this. I just couldn't see it for what it was - and how important it is to him that he provide for us. I was an idiot to not understand that at the time. 

While still applying for work, he started up some of his own projects that helped a little, and also became involved with helping set up community gardens and such. This was really beneficial to him (and benefited the people trying to get it going), because of the interaction and the physical work involved. 

I'm glad you're seeing how important this may be to your husband. It's only been fairly recently that I've actually understood how much it means to my husband to provide for us.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Taking care of her (the kids are grown now) is where I get my self worth. If I was unable to provide for her it would absolutely devastate me. 

as it stands now I also take care of her parents household as they are quite old and unable to care for themselves financially and being a parent never ends either. Even though they are grown and on their own I find myself worrying about them loosing their job or whatever and having to help them financially. sometimes it feels like I am responsible for caring for the entire population of the US. But I feel driven to do it.

It is an odd analogy but you ladies who have children remember when it was time for the baby to come and you had that uncontrollable urge to push? Its kinda like that! Sometimes you are so tired but you can't help it you have to do it so you pushhhhhh!


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## althea (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you for all the responses. The work I do is important to me on a personal level as well as bringing in a paycheck, but even so, I guess I had little concept of what this means to him.

We were talking (not quite arguing) about something along the relationship lines but unrelated to making a living the other day and in answer to whatever it was I asked (I actually do not even remember what we were talking about) he just blurted out, "All I want is to be able to go to work every day."

So it doesn't really matter what the subject of the problem is, the answer for him at this time eventually comes down to making a living.

It hasn't "fixed" things, but knowing this now really puts things in a different light.


PS @ Mavash- I guess in my other thread it could be interpreted that he's a lazy drunk wallowing in self-pity...but he's not really like that. He's more like a clueless-to-women, very hard working but can't find steady work, sensitive but does not know what to do with his feelings kind of guy who drinks more than he should.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

It depends. Are you talking about a family struggling to eat or just where the woman makes more than the man? To me those are two different situations. Growing in a single mother household I don't hold preconceived ideas that a man must be the bread winner in the household. I don't tie my career to my self worth. In fact, I plan on downsizing my career once both of my daughters have completed college. I'll be 47 at that time. I doubt I would have a problem if my wife made more than me unless it was something she used to degrade me. I would have issues if we couldn't make ends meet and my lack of work caused that.


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