# How do I call my wife out on certain things?



## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

How do I call my wife out?

In my previous thread I’ve discussed the resentment that’s growing in my wife has basically entered a semi-retired mode while I work a pretty high stress job with long hours often. The kids are getting older (7th and 5th grader twins) and she pretty much has refused to entertain the idea of going back to work. I said I’d be better about the situation if she would put in the effort of taking care of our family as a SAHM…not the semi-retired SAHM. 

Anyway, I’ve decided that I’m no longer going to just ignore certain behavior and actually talk to her about it…the issue I’ve struggled with is that is seems to me that Dad’s are not allowed to question SAHM’s anymore…that’s a sacred cow and as working father, I’m absolutely clueless as to what it takes to take care of our house apparently. 

Certain situations that put me in a bad mood…I need a tactful way to say this doesn’t work.

-	I get home from work at 4:00 – she and the kids get home from school pickup at 3:30 – when I walk in the house she is napping on the coach a couple times a week with a magazine on her chest while the kids do the homework. How do I call her out on that – assuming she’s not sick or otherwise not well?
-	She plays words with friends All. Day. Long. She’s got 6 or 7 of her gal pals in games and she plays at all hours…in the morning in bed while I get ready for work. While I’m making dinner. Sitting on the patio while I’m doing yardwork. I asked to look at her games and she’s got 6-7 games going at once and she’s finishing multiple games a day. That’s a lot of time. I guess it’s better than facebook, but it’s making me nuts. How do I say…stop it. There’s a time for games and a time for work
-	Our house is in a pretty sloppy state all the time. While I don’t expect perfection every waking moment, I do expect some standard to be held regarding picking up, straightening up etc. She gets into cleaning mode when we have company…or the night before the cleaning ladies. I’m trying to find a way to say that’s not good enough?

I’m trying to figure this out because she thinks I’m crabby when I get home from work… One of the reasons I might be crabby is because of the above when I walk in the door… and if you mix in a extra rough day, I definitely can be crabby.

I guess coming home and letting crap get to me is the opposite of "Manning Up"... 

Thanks for any feedback...

Orion


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Orion,

I wouldn't worry about any of this. Life is too short and it's not clear that calling her out will make a positive difference. In my humble opinion, she's doing you and the kids a big favor by not working and you should be proud of yourself for being able to make this happen. I would suggest that you may be crabby when you get home because of work. I know I am. You should own your feelings and not look at your wife or the house as a reason for feeling anything except maybe the desire to help.

If you don't like the housekeeping, and believe me I completely understand your concerns, my first suggestion is to lead by example doing what you want done yourself as a demonstration. Bring the place up to the desired level of cleanliness for a while so everyone gets used to it. She may or may not follow your example but the place will be clean for sure and you will probably feel better through a sense of accomplishment. If you really apply yourself, you can probably knock it all out in about a tenth the time since this stuff is really not all that difficult.

For example, my wife has a hard time getting the dishes in and out of the dishwasher. This creates a messy kitchen and a big inconvenience. I can (and do) load and unload the dishwasher in about 2 minutes each way. I guess I have a talent for it and it really doesn't bother me to do it. Seriously, a little mindless manual activity after work will make you feel better.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Leave the napping on the couch out if it. She should be allowed to nap. However, I understand you're upset about the state of the house. A way to ease your way into the conversation would be something like, "It seems the house has been a little cluttered lately. Maybe we should try a new method of organization. Any ideas?" 

As for the game I think you should be straightforward. "Would you mind putting your phone down when I'm around? We need quality family time."

I was going to mention that a SAHM should expect some level of help from her H at night. Nothing big, something like tidying up the kitchen or living room. It seems that you're already making dinner on a regular basis, though. Kudos for realizing her job shouldn't be 24 hours a day. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

You are going about this all wrong.

Showing up acting like a crab is not attractive. Complaining sucks to hear. Your disapproval is disrespectful. 

Come home happy, take the kids or your wife out for some fun and then come back and pick **** up. 

After a month of that, if she is still not pulling her weight, then make a decision how to approach it. 

Before you do it right, dont get in her face

Its called giving your wife attention, affection, appreciation instead of a bunch of whining


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Recommending that he pick **** up when she's a SAHM whose children are in school full time is just insane. Outside of depression, I don't understand why she can't have the house 90% clean when he returns home. It's possible that she doesn't feel appreciated, but that only means he should compliment her on the things she does well. He shouldn't do her work for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is just terrible - conflict avoidant advice. 

He is entitled to have reasonable expectations. He needs to explain what those are calmly and firmly. Otherwise she is slowly going to play the "I matter and you don't" game until he gets squeezed into nothing. 

If it were me. I would nicely explain what needs to be done and add that if it is too much for her that a cleaning lady will be hired AND that it will be paid for out of her discretionary spending. No emotion other than determination. And no anger just a calm explanation of consequences.




Ten_year_hubby said:


> Orion,
> 
> I wouldn't worry about any of this. Life is too short and it's not clear that calling her out will make a positive difference. In my humble opinion, she's doing you and the kids a big favor by not working and you should be proud of yourself for being able to make this happen. I would suggest that you may be crabby when you get home because of work. I know I am. You should own your feelings and not look at your wife or the house as a reason for feeling anything except maybe the desire to help.
> 
> ...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Orion,
> 
> I wouldn't worry about any of this. Life is too short and it's not clear that calling her out will make a positive difference. In my humble opinion, she's doing you and the kids a big favor by not working and you should be proud of yourself for being able to make this happen. I would suggest that you may be crabby when you get home because of work. I know I am. You should own your feelings and not look at your wife or the house as a reason for feeling anything except maybe the desire to help.
> 
> ...


This seems completely opposite advise to what folks tell men who work full time to do. You know the men who are so Beta their wives no longer want them. They work all day and come home and do the chores.

I think he has a very good point. He is working and his wife is playing games most of the day. So he should come home and help with the chores!?

This seems the exact opposite of what he should be doing.

I would encourage her to get at least a part time job. I think if people do not interact with adults in a productive way they end up getting old prematurely. Their mind is not exercised. Games do not do this. Her mental efforts should contribute to the family good.

*SAHMs get bored* Not good. When the kids get to this age they are in school. There are no babys to be looked after any more.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

He cooks, he cleans up, yard work, should be his domain---inside the house should be hers, it doesn't sound like its happening that way

He is working, so she CAN lay on the couch, and NAP, so she CAN play on the computer

If he wanted to take care of everything, he could have stayed single

You need to force a little communication here, whether she likes it or not, and lay it out to her---she becomes a wife, and mother, and takes care of the house

Maybe the thought of her having to take care of her lazy self, and having to go out and work to support herself, as in D., single mother of kids, might just wake her lazy self up

He works, she cares for the home---that seems pretty fair


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## Rosco (Sep 16, 2011)

YOu don't need to sugar coat anything. My wife works and I work. I do the laundry and she folds it. She cooks and I clean the kitchen. The dusts and I vacuum, sweep and mop. I mow the lawn and she waters. Sometimes she or I won't do our part. For instance, our washer broke and I figured how to replace the circuit board. While we were waiting for the part and it was down, I gathered the laundry, took it to the laundry mat and washed. I came home and put the loads in the dryer. She didn't fold the laundry for a couple of days until I called her out. YOU NEED TO FOLD THE LAUNDRY. Guess what, the did it. We've been marred for almost 23 years and always split the house work.

You need to man up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I went back and reread your previous thread. 

I also keep hearing that she is getting older. Give me a break. She has a child in the 5th grade. If you are talking about being retired at 45 then give me a freakin break. That is about half way to retriement these days. 45 is far from old. No one should be thinking about taking a dirt nap or retiring. If she is that old then check her into a nursing home and get a 45 year wife who is not old. ( kidding ) 

I alsp see you pay for a housecleaning service. The children are in school. The house is not kept that well. he is napping when she gets back with the kids because it was so exhausting to pick them up. I don't get to take naps during the day. She finds excuses to not go out with you. She is bored and depressed and lazy. Spoiled even. 

In the last thread I suggested you appeal to her rationally about how working would be good for her.

Since that did not work I suggest you apply some tough love. I think you tell her that you are not ready to pack it in and that it is unacceptable for her to giev up while she is so young. If she was 75 I could understand this more. Discuss with her what type of work she would like to do. Insist that rather than play games she look for work. Part time work is fine. Tell her you see her as giving up on your marriage and you have a long way to go and would like her to come along. 

So just flat tell her. If she refuses cut off her money. She can go to work and get spending money.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> Leave the napping on the couch out if it. She should be allowed to nap.


The problem I have with her napping is that it happens after having 7+ hours of time to herself. 30 minutes after the kids get home isn't the time to nap in my opinion. When I walk in, I get asked to help them with their homework. She gets more sleep than me, I don't think she's exhausted.



> However, I understand you're upset about the state of the house. A way to ease your way into the conversation would be something like, "It seems the house has been a little cluttered lately. Maybe we should try a new method of organization. Any ideas?"
> 
> As for the game I think you should be straightforward. "Would you mind putting your phone down when I'm around? We need quality family time."
> 
> ...


I think I do my fair share around the house. I do cook every dinner. I take care of the outside, garage, finances and the dog that everyone wanted. (now that we have the dog, I admit I was wrong...he's a great addition to our family)


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> You are going about this all wrong.
> 
> Showing up acting like a crab is not attractive. Complaining sucks to hear. Your disapproval is disrespectful.


You're right...I'm going to snap out of that. I've been letting the issue fester inside and that's not good. 



> Come home happy, take the kids or your wife out for some fun and then come back and pick **** up.
> 
> After a month of that, if she is still not pulling her weight, then make a decision how to approach it.
> 
> ...


Appreciation is a two way street. I hear you though...I'm going to turn off the crab mode.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> Recommending that he pick **** up when she's a SAHM whose children are in school full time is just insane. Outside of depression, I don't understand why she can't have the house 90% clean when he returns home. It's possible that she doesn't feel appreciated, but that only means he should compliment her on the things she does well. He shouldn't do her work for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I used to get fed up and do the work, I would be very resentful... I don't understand why she cant get it done either. She has a "craft room" that we put in the basement when we remodeled... you can barely open the door. I think she's rationalized that her day is so busy with errands, volunteer work, yoga, lunches etc...the house stuff isn't as important. That is unless we have company or something.

A SAHM who's out more than home isn't really a "Stay at Home" mom... its hard to show appreciation when things aren't done right.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> This is just terrible - conflict avoidant advice.
> 
> He is entitled to have reasonable expectations. He needs to explain what those are calmly and firmly. Otherwise she is slowly going to play the "I matter and you don't" game until he gets squeezed into nothing.
> 
> If it were me. I would nicely explain what needs to be done and add that if it is too much for her that a cleaning lady will be hired AND that it will be paid for out of her discretionary spending. No emotion other than determination. And no anger just a calm explanation of consequences.


We have a cleaning lady and the house is clean the night before they come -- because they can't clean when there's clutter I guess.

I'm done with resentment...crabbiness... We talk about a new plan for things and it changes for a short period of time before it slips back to the old way. That cycle is frustrating as well.


Thanks.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I went back and reread your previous thread.
> 
> I also keep hearing that she is getting older. Give me a break. She has a child in the 5th grade. If you are talking about being retired at 45 then give me a freakin break. That is about half way to retriement these days. 45 is far from old. No one should be thinking about taking a dirt nap or retiring. If she is that old then check her into a nursing home and get a 45 year wife who is not old. ( kidding )
> 
> ...


I told her I miss the person who moved to the big city with nothing...got a job...built a career and made it. We've been together since college. When the twins were babies and our daughter was 3, she worked her butt off. We both did. She didn't used to be a slug...I'm not sure why she changed so much.

When we had the talk, she basically said she doesn't have any desire to work. I said me neither, but I don't have a choice. Adults need to be challenged...it would be so healthy for her, but she's absolutely convinced herself that's not the case. She's fighting so hard to keep things as they are.

I'm not done working on that.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

The Real Reason Your Wife Doesn’t Want to Work

Why Your Wife’s Excuses for Not Working Are Lame

These articles from Dr. Tara Palmatier are interesting. She may be a little harsh...but some of it's right on. My wife wants to be the "Professional Mommy" of Over-scheduled kids.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> How do I call my wife out?
> 
> In my previous thread I’ve discussed the resentment that’s growing in my wife has basically entered a semi-retired mode while I work a pretty high stress job with long hours often. The kids are getting older (7th and 5th grader twins) and she pretty much has refused to entertain the idea of going back to work. I said I’d be better about the situation if she would put in the effort of taking care of our family as a SAHM…not the semi-retired SAHM.
> 
> ...



What is happening is that you have allowed your wife to live without standards and accountability. You have also failed to define the purpose of your marriage and your family. You have failed to keep the family and the marriage as the focal point of her life. You did this to "keep her happy". As a result, she defined her own purpose and focal points (playing games with her friends, living off you, and doing as she pleases while putting the kids and her husband second).

When someone says "let her take a nap". I think that a mother napping at 3:30 in the afternoon is a terrible example for your children.

Regarding "making" her go back to work, that is a mistake. Why do you want her to go back to work? It's because you want her to have a purpose. The answer is not making her go back to work, but help her live a life of purpose and let her decide whether she needs to or wants to work.

So, rather than "call her out" on specifically what she is doing that you don't like, start within yourself and define the purpose of your family, and your "rules".... One rule for example is "Parents set the example for children". This rule is not aimed at your wife, it is your rule about the world in general. You should come up with many rules or policies that are yours in relation to husbands, wives, children, working, chores etc. 

Then you start stating them. Not directly aimed at your wife, but either just say them, or even better observe a T.V. show, news story, story about another couple and use it as an excuse to state your policy. Example, your wife tells you so and so are getting a divorce. Your response: It's obvious when he is doing X, and she is doing Y that their marriage is in serious trouble. A marriage cannot work when the wife does Y. These X's and Y's are the things you don't want your wife doing, and things you will not do.

Being crabby is a very poor way of dealing with it. Having a purpose in life will bring you calmness.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

It might sound harsh, but my wife struggled with the same issues for a while, and I just dealt with it consistently, but practically. That said, while she was busy with the younger children, we were a team. I tried hard to do my share. Later, as the kids needed less supervision, and she began to sleep 14 hours a day, and the house began to become sloppy, I was pretty direct and upfront, trying to be respectful about it. Never, ever would I entertain having someone come in to clean the house. If she had hours of time for entertainment and games, vacations went on hold. Going out to eat three times per week went down to once. We stuck to a strict budget, even if it meant that both of us went without. I put 15% in retirement, and we both sucked it up and drove really old cars. We didn't buy new grills, new furniture, etc. How could you play games without a nice phone or without a computer? I sacrificed equally, though, but the budget became my mantra. Ultimately, she went back to work because she wanted to do things, and buy things.

While she worked with the younger kids, though, I did get a second job. I honored her, but I just didn't let that transform to a semi-retirement later. Her first job was, frankly, beneath her skills. We picked something easy, to get her back into the feeling of working. Then she took off and now makes more than most people who work full time, although she works part time.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Hicks and Halien....

Thank you for your perspectives... I'm really starting to see things in a different light. 

Really good stuff.

Orion


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I think that the napping is fine, as long as she is doing her job in other ways. Sounds like she's spoiled and she's taking advantage of you. Some wives are just lazy. 

If you do not work outside the home, your job is running the house, whether you are male or female. If she is lucky enough to be a SAHM, she should be cooking and cleaning-_she's home all day long!_ She has time to cook dinner if she can play games all the time. I only think that the working parent should help with childcare once they get home and on the weekends; the kids need time with the other parent. 

Besides the fact that I am recovering from being hit by a car, the job market in my field is has been awful for the last two years. I have been working about 80% of the time since last July. My husband _still _comes home to a clean place and dinner on the table. My left hand is weak and it will never regain the strength it once had, so I have to rely on my right hand most of the time. Bloody hell, if I can cook and clean with _only one strong hand_, your wife can surely do the same with two good hands. Call her out by having a firm discussion with her, about giving and taking in a marriage. Set your expectations and why you have them.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> The Real Reason Your Wife Doesn’t Want to Work
> 
> Why Your Wife’s Excuses for Not Working Are Lame
> 
> These articles from Dr. Tara Palmatier are interesting. She may be a little harsh...but some of it's right on. My wife wants to be the "Professional Mommy" of Over-scheduled kids.



I've read these articles and there is a lot of truth to them.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> The Real Reason Your Wife Doesn’t Want to Work
> 
> Why Your Wife’s Excuses for Not Working Are Lame
> 
> These articles from Dr. Tara Palmatier are interesting. She may be a little harsh...but some of it's right on. My wife wants to be the "Professional Mommy" of Over-scheduled kids.



Which is all believable to an extent. But then - - - now they're in college or beyond. And why spend literally every breath bitterly complaining about money?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> T*he problem I have with her napping is that it happens after having 7+ hours of time to herself. 30 minutes after the kids get home isn't the time to nap in my opinion. When I walk in, I get asked to help them with their homework. She gets more sleep than me, I don't think she's exhausted.*


Exactly. She is home alone. Now the kids are home and need their mom. So she tales a nap. then 30 minutes dad is home to do chores and take care of the kids.

That makes him the bread winner, dad and mr mom. She has a house cleaning service.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> When I used to get fed up and do the work, I would be very resentful... I don't understand why she cant get it done either. She has a "craft room" that we put in the basement when we remodeled... you can barely open the door. I think she's rationalized that her day is so busy with errands, volunteer work, yoga, lunches etc...the house stuff isn't as important. That is unless we have company or something.
> 
> *A SAHM who's out more than home isn't really a "Stay at Home" mom... its hard to show appreciation when things aren't done right.*


Whoa. Where does she go? Is this to play those games. I guess I was thinking the games were on a computer. 

Ok, I see she is a rich socialite. She needs some servants at the house.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Halien said:


> It might sound harsh, but my wife struggled with the same issues for a while, and I just dealt with it consistently, but practically. That said, while she was busy with the younger children, we were a team. I tried hard to do my share. Later, as the kids needed less supervision, and she began to sleep 14 hours a day, and the house began to become sloppy, I was pretty direct and upfront, trying to be respectful about it. Never, ever would I entertain having someone come in to clean the house. If she had hours of time for entertainment and games, vacations went on hold. Going out to eat three times per week went down to once. We stuck to a strict budget, even if it meant that both of us went without. I put 15% in retirement, and we both sucked it up and drove really old cars. We didn't buy new grills, new furniture, etc. How could you play games without a nice phone or without a computer? I sacrificed equally, though, but the budget became my mantra. *Ultimately, she went back to work because she wanted to do things, and buy things.
> *
> While she worked with the younger kids, though, I did get a second job. * I honored her, but I just didn't let that transform to a semi-retirement later. Her first job was, frankly, beneath her skills. We picked something easy, to get her back into the feeling of working. Then she took off and now makes more than most people who work full time, although she works part time.*


Excellent example. This is exactly what I was suggesting. But now you have a testimonial of how to do it. Awesome.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Whoa. Where does she go? Is this to play those games. I guess I was thinking the games were on a computer.
> 
> Ok, I see she is a rich socialite. She needs some servants at the house.


 not a rich socialite yet...maybe in a few more years. She fills her day with errands, shopping for groceries - household stuff, yoga, lunches with friends, school volunteer activities -- some of which is absolutely necessary for the house and some is just her and her pals chit chatting while pseudo working on a project. 

In the time in-between the errands, she'll be home and she tells me there's not enough time between stuff to get anything serious done. That's when the games, magazines come out. She's not a TV watcher during the day thankfully. She's absolutely diligent about getting the laundry done...it's a priority for her...I think she'd look at me funny if I compliment that...

I know in my other thread there was a concern about infidelity. I've been looking and there's just nothing there...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> The Real Reason Your Wife Doesn’t Want to Work
> 
> Why Your Wife’s Excuses for Not Working Are Lame
> 
> These articles from Dr. Tara Palmatier are interesting. She may be a little harsh...but some of it's right on. My wife wants to be the "Professional Mommy" of Over-scheduled kids.


Wow. This nailed it.



> Her real goal has always been to have someone take care of her financial and material needs. Ironically, this is also the type of woman who complains bitterly about you working too much and not spending enough time with her or the kid(s).


Not mentioned here but it sounds like this is someone who is going to get bored and could look for attention else where.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> not a rich socialite yet...maybe in a few more years. She fills her day with errands, shopping for groceries - household stuff, yoga, lunches with friends, school volunteer activities -- some of which is absolutely necessary for the house and some is just her and her pals chit chatting while pseudo working on a project.
> 
> In the time in-between the errands, she'll be home and she tells me there's not enough time between stuff to get anything serious done. That's when the games, magazines come out. She's not a TV watcher during the day thankfully. She's absolutely diligent about getting the laundry done...it's a priority for her...I think she'd look at me funny if I compliment that...
> 
> I know in my other thread there was a concern about infidelity. I've been looking and there's just nothing there...


This sounds a bit better to me. Not like she is sleeping away the day and not like she is only spending it with friends.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

After reading all the great feedback, I've been really trying to look at myself in the mirror and be totally honest. 

I've responded to my wife's issues with crabbiness. I've responded with being a bit of a bully I think. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I didn't notice that I was really doing exactly the wrong thing for a while now. I guess it was easy to blame "work" and not really address why I was acting the way I did.

I've been letting the resentment fester...and I'm going to make every attempt to let it go completely. I'm not going to rely on changes in her to make me happier. I got stuck thinking that if she would change the family would be better. 


I've got some work to do... defining my purpose (thanks Hicks!)...and being a better husband/father. I also have to work on getting over the "It's not fair" issue I that I have. I am out there working and dealing with a lot of crap every day. Her life seems so easy to me.

I never thought I'd post on these boards...now I'm glad I did. I really appreciate all the feedback. Any additional feedback is always appreciated.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> After reading all the great feedback, I've been really trying to look at myself in the mirror and be totally honest.
> 
> I've responded to my wife's issues with crabbiness. I've responded with being a bit of a bully I think. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I didn't notice that I was really doing exactly the wrong thing for a while now. I guess it was easy to blame "work" and not really address why I was acting the way I did.
> 
> ...


Make sure before you put all the blame on yourself you read the Nice Guy stuff in the men's forum if you have not already.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Make sure before you put all the blame on yourself you read the Nice Guy stuff in the men's forum if you have not already.


I'll accept responsibility for my behavior... I really think I've been crabby ...that's not the right response I don't think.

I'm hopeful by snapping out of it will start the process of working with her to snap out of her funk...and she is in a funk.

I've read some of the nice guy stuff and I'm learning... I was doing a lot of stuff wrong for a long time. Me changing for the better isn't being a nice guy is it?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> I'll accept responsibility for my behavior... I really think I've been crabby ...that's not the right response I don't think.
> 
> I'm hopeful by snapping out of it will start the process of working with her to snap out of her funk...and she is in a funk.
> 
> I've read some of the nice guy stuff and I'm learning... I was doing a lot of stuff wrong for a long time. Me changing for the better isn't being a nice guy is it?


The bird is in your hands. I suggested you read the Nice Guy stuff. The inferenece being that you are a grown person and need to decide that for yourself. It is obvious that you had reason to question your wife's part in your marriage. She is not doing her part per the information you provided.

Certainly we all need to be better people. All you can do is improve yourself and decide what is acceptable to you. I say great do what you just said. Eliminate the bad stuff on your part for sure. Then see where things are at. I am only saying after that don't be an enabler. I am suggesting that you are not 100% of the issue. It takes two. So the good news is that if you make sure you are going at least half way if there are still probelms then you know your wife needs to do her part.

So cool, stop being so crabby. Be positive. Don't accpet her not going out on dates with you. Be a good date. Be someone she wants to be around. Better yourself and try not to fall into the Nice Guy syndrome.

I wish you luck.


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## ZeroCool (Sep 23, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> I'm hopeful by snapping out of it will start the process of working with her to snap out of her funk...and she is in a funk.
> 
> I


Just a thought...maybe she is peri-menopausal?

I was at a parent meeting this morning for my kids' sports team, and another Mother and I got to talking after the meeting. She's 44 and I am 40, and we were comparing symptoms. When they say one of the symptoms is fatigue....they mean it. Peri-menopause symptoms can be real doozies.

Depression and mood swings are also symptoms. 

Not excusing her, just throwing a cause out that might be worth looking into.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> The bird is in your hands. I suggested you read the Nice Guy stuff. The inferenece being that you are a grown person and need to decide that for yourself. It is obvious that you had reason to question your wife's part in your marriage. She is not doing her part per the information you provided.
> 
> Certainly we all need to be better people. All you can do is improve yourself and decide what is acceptable to you. I say great do what you just said. Eliminate the bad stuff on your part for sure. Then see where things are at. I am only saying after that don't be an enabler. I am suggesting that you are not 100% of the issue. It takes two. So the good news is that if you make sure you are going at least half way if there are still probelms then you know your wife needs to do her part.
> 
> ...


I hear you...and thanks for that. I'm going to get out of my rut. I think I have to do that first. I'm going to start acting like a leader ... I think that's a good first step for me. And she's not pulling her weight, that's for sure. Something needs to change and I figured changing my crap first is the obvious choice. Reading some of the nice guy stuff has reassured me I do not want to get into *that*rut...

I do appreciate your feedback.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

ZeroCool said:


> Just a thought...maybe she is peri-menopausal?
> 
> I was at a parent meeting this morning for my kids' sports team, and another Mother and I got to talking after the meeting. She's 44 and I am 40, and we were comparing symptoms. When they say one of the symptoms is fatigue....they mean it. Peri-menopause symptoms can be real doozies.
> 
> ...


I brought up the possibility that Peri-menopause might be part of it...she had a few PMS months that were extreme. Very Extreme...I asked her to bring it up with her doctor just to discuss... so far she hasn't. I'll have to bring that up again.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Orion, I suffered with extreme PMS for years. Crying spells alternated with rages, along with all the cravings and pain.

All of the over the counter stuff did little for me. 

I recently started using evening primrose oil and it works like a charm. Maybe your wife should try that? It can't hurt.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Orion, I suffered with extreme PMS for years. Crying spells alternated with rages, along with all the cravings and pain.
> 
> All of the over the counter stuff did little for me.
> 
> I recently started using evening primrose oil and it works like a charm. Maybe your wife should try that? It can't hurt.


Thanks...I'll definitely look into that...


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## ZeroCool (Sep 23, 2011)

Zoloft has been a lifesaver for me and peri-menopause. I also swear by acai for the memory fog and energy. 

Just from anecdotal evidence related by a lot of my female family members and friends, Gyns can be really receptive or outright dismissive when it comes to peri-menopause, PMS, and PMMD. It can be discouraging if one falls into the latter category.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Orion the Hunter said:


> I brought up the possibility that Peri-menopause might be part of it...she had a few PMS months that were extreme. Very Extreme...I asked her to bring it up with her doctor just to discuss... so far she hasn't. I'll have to bring that up again.


In one post you said (correctly) that you want to lead your wife. But here you are "micromanaging" her.

All this PMS, perimenopause diagonses are not necessary for you to pay any mind to. All women have PMS and perimenoupause and get crabby during their periods. Accept ans support her on this. By leading, what you want to do is set the standard that you will contribute your 50% to the marital relationship (working, fiances, meeting her emotional needs, contributing to children) and you will not let anything detract you from that mission, and you required and expect that she will contribute her 50%, and you discuss what that 50% actually means. You don't tell her to see a doctor. You hold the standard of her contribution to your life and marriage. How she gets there is up to her. Occasionally it's necessary to point out where her actions are not in line with the expectations of your marriage.


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