# Messedmarriage



## Hurr

Am 45, she is 36. Been married for 11 years ( she says 13) with 2 gals 10 and 8, my angels, my true love. I had suspected that she has been cheating until last Saturday when it hit me like a thunderbolt. Here is my story.

About a month ago, a friend of mine called me and enquired if we had changed our residence. I told her no, and wondered why she was asking. Well, she said she had spotted my wife's car severally parked in her apartment block which is like 5 km from my house. I told her to find out which flat she was visiting and after a day or so she called and confirmed that the flat she visited had single man as the occupier. Immediately I got a PI to help investigate. He came back to me with a full log of her mobile usage in the last one month, but this is not the normal phone bill. Instead this showed also the name of the nearest mobile phone transmitter station where her handset made or received the call, call duration, who it came from. So if she had been driving you can easily track her movement, how long she stayed in a particular location etc.

In that month she had visited the said house like 10 times. All visits were for periods of 2-6hours. Also they talked or smsed each other between 5-10 times a day. Almost everyday the first and last call would be to this contact. If I happen to have been at home it would be an sms. From the document it was clear to me a full blown relationship was ongoing. Then for the last one week, I was mainly at home. I studied this like 100page document to understand her movements and she was mostly at home also. So I had to really hide and take drives to be alone. The pain and sense of betrayal as I went through this arduous task was immense. She strutted around the house like a queen bee throwing silly snide remarks that a happy couple would normally engage in. She was of course oblivious of what I was doing behind her back. And you know what I even assumed maybe the affair had cooled off because the whole week she looked so at peace, so at home.

Then yesterday morning my world came crushing down. We had agreed that I would wake up early to drop my kids to a school event. Unfortunately I overslept and the bus left them so I had to drive to the event and take them. Then an hour or so later i get a call from my friend in the said apartment block telling me that my wife's car was parked there. I called her and she didn't pick(I think she was in the midst of the throes of vanquishing a one week old sexual starvation episode). She, however, called me half an hour later and though I could tell from the background noise that she was indoors, she cheated me that she was driving to check on the kids. She never went. Instead she remained there till 2-3pm and the kids were dropped back by the bus. She was very testy last night, pretending to be very tired(she probably was, actually) and avoided me by going to sleep with the kids( not like I cared at all). Today we have basically been robots, went to church and afterwards stayed indoors.

Initially I thought I will get the PI to install cameras and get video footage in the OM house but I don't really think that is necessary any more. Am planning to make my move this week. First I will ask her and am sure she will deny. She avoids having any kind of conversation with me and am sure she will run away from this one so am planning to call one of her friends as I break the news to her. I want to end this marriage forthwith. The house we are living in is a rental so I am happy to leave her in this house just so that I don't unfairly interrupt the kids life and education without a proper plan. I intend to leave by weekend so I must look for a house and furnish it. I don't want R and I actually don't think she is capable at all. The main thing to discuss is our kids, and that we can do when we are not sharing the same roof. 

Good people at TAM, please help me sail through this storm. My heart is broken, but funny enough I feel some relief and calm that's confounding. Sorry for such a long post.


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## Nomorebeans

I'm sorry you're here.

I wouldn't be the one to leave, if I were you. She's cheating, she should do the leaving. You can certainly help facilitate her leaving by helping her find a place and all that stuff you were going to do for yourself. But she's the one who has betrayed her marriage vows, and who is also being a bad parent by betraying her daughters' father and her family as a whole. She needs to suffer the consequences, not you.


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## EleGirl

Do not confront her or leave you home until you have spoken to a lawyer and have a plan for the divorce. 

I don't know the laws where you live, but in some places, your leaving would look like abandonment of your wife and children. Thus you would get little to no custody and time sharing with them.

Also, as soon as you leave, she could be having the OM over in the same home with your children. You might be able to file an order that she cannot have any men over for the duration of the divorce.


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## Hardtohandle

Don't do ANYTHING until you speak to a lawyer.. 

Stop have the mentality that she gets to keep the kids.. I couldn't imagine that any state or country has laws that declare a wife gets to have the kids.. 

Turn your mentality around please on this. Also make sure your LAWYER does not have this mentality.. I had to fight with my lawyer and make up my own settlement before he seen the light on this.. Once on board though my Ex wife was crushed quickly..


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## Mr.Fisty

Get a lawyer first and find the best one you can. I suggest giving her the divorce papers at the same time as the evidence.

As you are doing this, start separating your own life and start emotionally detaching by finding fulfillment with friends and family.

Some of us have an easier time of accepting reality. Also, create a positive life. Working out, eating right, have fun. Even if you do not feel like it at the time, it will lessen the pain.


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## EllisRedding

Do you mind me asking, why do you and her differ on the number of years you have been married? Is there a mental issue at play that she believes your marriage has lasted 2 years longer then you believe?


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## NoChoice

OP,
First off, if you have already come to the conclusion that R is not an option then you are far ahead of most who come here. Explore your legal position with regards to custody arrangements, child support, alimony and property splits. Understand that you are about to embark on a journey of epic proportions from relief to regret and from a sense of freedom to loneliness. Your emotions will run the gamut and your STBXW may appear as though she has gone mad at times. However, you seem convinced that it is the only way forward so be prepared for the ride.

You, at least for the time being until someone else comes along, have two lovely ladies in your life so cherish them and be their rock through this ordeal. Exposing and blowing up the A is of no consequence if you have no desire to "get her back" so I see little need to concentrate effort there unless you simply want vindication. Prepare yourself legally, financially and emotionally and press ahead to your goal.

I am forever perplexed by a spouse who has an affair because they either want a meaningless fling or they are a moron. If they want something meaningless, that logic eludes me and if they are expecting a long term relationship then they are simply a dullard. It would equate to hiring a bank teller that put on their resume that they steal and have tendencies toward kleptomania. What do they expect? Baffling. In any event I wish you good fortune and strength.


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## Hurr

Thanks so much for your advise. Ours will be a no contest divorce. That am sure. Unless she changes tune, we have had a couple go through such a painful divorce that she swore never to want to undergo the same. 

Concerning my wanting to move out instead of her, I think you make more sense especially with the abandonment notion and kids custody. But I think I know how she thinks- she knows am a good father and would very much want me to be a part of the kids lives. As to bringing a man to the house, that I doubt. This is a gated community and everyone know everyone else. In any case am planning to expose her to two of her best friends who live here. She would find it had to bring a man here, at least for the foreseable future.

Talking of a man, if this woman was to move out, she would demand being the primary caregiver for our kids. In a new environment, I fear she would more easily bring in men there because she has nobody to hide from. That am almost certain


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## Hurr

EllisRedding said:


> Do you mind me asking, why do you and her differ on the number of years you have been married? Is there a mental issue at play that she believes your marriage has lasted 2 years longer then you believe?


Hehehe, it's not a mental issue, but rather she always want to feel she has been married for a long time so that the marriage can sound stable. I actually think she is surprised it has survived this long. Also I didn't mention in my original post that in the phone records I have been looking at( and these only cover a 1 month period) she has visited her ex-bf house in 2 different afternoons. This is the chap she had before I married her. And in two different occasions she has made over 1 hr long distance calls to yet another ex.


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## Hurr

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> First off, if you have already come to the conclusion that R is not an option then you are far ahead of most who come here. Explore your legal position with regards to custody arrangements, child support, alimony and property splits. Understand that you are about to embark on a journey of epic proportions from relief to regret and from a sense of freedom to loneliness. Your emotions will run the gamut and your STBXW may appear as though she has gone mad at times. However, you seem convinced that it is the only way forward so be prepared for the ride.
> 
> You, at least for the time being until someone else comes along, have two lovely ladies in your life so cherish them and be their rock through this ordeal. Exposing and blowing up the A is of no consequence if you have no desire to "get her back" so I see little need to concentrate effort there unless you simply want vindication. Prepare yourself legally, financially and emotionally and press ahead to your goal.
> 
> I am forever perplexed by a spouse who has an affair because they either want a meaningless fling or they are a moron. If they want something meaningless, that logic eludes me and if they are expecting a long term relationship then they are simply a dullard. It would equate to hiring a bank teller that put on their resume that they steal and have tendencies toward kleptomania. What do they expect? Baffling. In any event I wish you good fortune and strength.


Thanks for your words of encouragement. Yes I expect it will be a rocky ride, but I reckon am a tough guy.

So why do I want to expose her and yet I don't want R? This woman will lie through her teeth. She will bad mouth me, I know her. She will come up with stories that am the one who left her and the children, that I abandoned them, that she always knew I would do that. Well I can live with all that. But I also foresee a situation where she might want to poison my kids minds by making up these stories. It's not beyond her at all. So am exposing her to her family and close friends so that she can't turn tables round on me. She is quite capable of doing that.


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## EleGirl

Hurr said:


> Thanks so much for your advise. Ours will be a no contest divorce. That am sure. Unless she changes tune, we have had a couple go through such a painful divorce that she swore never to want to undergo the same.
> 
> Concerning my wanting to move out instead of her, I think you make more sense especially with the abandonment notion and kids custody. But I think I know how she thinks- she knows am a good father and would very much want me to be a part of the kids lives. As to bringing a man to the house, that I doubt. This is a gated community and everyone know everyone else. In any case am planning to expose her to two of her best friends who live here. She would find it had to bring a man here, at least for the foreseable future.
> 
> Talking of a man, if this woman was to move out, she would demand being the primary caregiver for our kids. In a new environment, I fear she would more easily bring in men there because she has nobody to hide from. That am almost certain


You say that you know that she would not contest the divorce. Were you surprised when you realized that she was cheating? Is that something you expected her to do?

People seem to change a lot after an affair is discovered. It is pretty easy to predict that she is going to be doing a lot of things that are out of character for whom you think she is.

If you go see a lawyer, it does not have to be to start a war with her. Instead it's just to make sure that you protect yourself, your children and your relationship with your children.

.


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## EleGirl

Also, when you confront her, she is going to deny the affair. She will turn it around on you, accusing you of being controlling, spying on her, and making up stories that she's cheating. She'll say that she was just talking to people. And maybe that she was just visiting some female friend of hers. Or that the guy is gay. Or some other cove story. She will tell everyone that you are gone off our rocker.

The evidence you have right now is not enough to prove an affair. So just be ready for her denials.

Sure there is a small chance that she will admit the affair and the full extent of the affair. If she does, it would be very unusual.


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## Hurr

EleGirl said:


> Also, when you confront her, she is going to deny the affair. She will turn it around on you, accusing you of being controlling, spying on her, and making up stories that she's cheating. She'll say that she was just talking to people. And maybe that she was just visiting some female friend of hers. Or that the guy is gay. Or some other cove story. She will tell everyone that you are gone off our rocker.
> 
> The evidence you have right now is not enough to prove an affair. So just be ready for her denials.
> 
> Sure there is a small chance that she will admit the affair and the full extent of the affair. If she does, it would be very unusual.


EleGirl, yes I was surprised but not shocked. Surprised because of the magnitude of her involvement. Remember, someone had to alert me of her presence in the said apartment building. Then looking back to this period that she was cheating, she acted so normal. I always thought our sex life was always good, but it now sounds stupid to say that. Clearly our "sex life" is group sex. 👨*👩*👦*👦👨*👩*👦*👦👨*👩*👦*👦

Now about how she will deny and deny. Yes I expect that. So this is what I intend to do. I want to draft an sms to her sister, brother, dad, mum, and at least 10 close friends and relatives and it will read something like this....

MY WIFE M**** IS DATING THIS NEW MAN CALLED ********** . HIS TEL NO. ********. HE LIVES AT ***** APARTMENT , BLOCK NO. ****DOOR NO. *****. PLEASE JOIN ME IN SENDING CONGRATULATORY MESSAGES TO THE LUCKY COUPLE AS THEY START THEIR NEW LIVES TOGETHER.


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## Mr.Fisty

Ahh, now you have to stay on this site. I am so curious of what type of response that will get. Please do not leave.

Would you wait for her to visit him and then bring everyone along to greet them. When you know she is over there, bring her parents, friends, and as well as yours to say hello.

I am sure she will love the surprise of a lifetime for all those who care about her to witness her joy.


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## Hurr

Mr.Fisty said:


> Get a lawyer first and find the best one you can. I suggest giving her the divorce papers at the same time as the evidence.
> 
> As you are doing this, start separating your own life and start emotionally detaching by finding fulfillment with friends and family.
> 
> Some of us have an easier time of accepting reality. Also, create a positive life. Working out, eating right, have fun. Even if you do not feel like it at the time, it will lessen the pain.


Yes, am an avid golfer and have a close-knit 4-ball whom we have already shared my predicaments. They've been very supportive. My mum, sisters and brother are in ecstatic moods. They never like her and were it not for my insistence, she would have hit the road years ago. So yeah am running a very exciting and demanding business, which luckily is starting to make me some money. My gals are happy and hearty. I weigh 92kg and am 5 11 so could do with a 10kg weight reduction. I have already cut 4kg from observing what I eat. Am a work in progress. Am so looking forwarding to really working on myself all-round in readiness for the lady I next fall in love with, marry and pray that we gracefully age together.😜😜😜😜


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## Nomorebeans

NoChoice said:


> I am forever perplexed by a spouse who has an affair because they either want a meaningless fling or they are a moron. If they want something meaningless, that logic eludes me and if they are expecting a long term relationship then they are simply a dullard. It would equate to hiring a bank teller that put on their resume that they steal and have tendencies toward kleptomania. What do they expect? Baffling. In any event I wish you good fortune and strength.


I just had to tell you, NC, that this made me laugh out loud. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here at TAM amongst us 100% humans.

Carry on.


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## Graywolf2

Hurr said:


> So this is what I intend to do. I want to draft an sms to her sister, brother, dad, mum, and at least 10 close friends and relatives and it will read something like this....
> 
> MY WIFE M**** IS DATING THIS NEW MAN CALLED ********** . HIS TEL NO. ********. HE LIVES AT ***** APARTMENT , BLOCK NO. ****DOOR NO. *****. PLEASE JOIN ME IN SENDING CONGRATULATORY MESSAGES TO THE LUCKY COUPLE AS THEY START THEIR NEW LIVES TOGETHER.


I like your style.



Hurr said:


> Now about how she will deny and deny. Yes I expect that.





intheory said:


> I would get a PI to set up the cameras. Because what you know now is damning; but not proof positive.


I agree. 

The more proof you have the better you can defend yourself from her attempts to make you the bad guy. She will minimize everything (they only kissed, ect.) and only admit what you can actually prove. 

Circumstantial evidence will be explained away. For example the old boyfriend was teaching her the violin. One husband found texts where his wife wrote: “Come over and [email protected] me now.” She explained that they were role playing and they never touched each other. 

Now (before she knows that you know) is the best opportunity you will ever have to get the evidence.


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## aine

This is a bad place to be, but you are making plans already.
You seem to have gotten lots of good advice here with regard to not leaving the house and exposing the affair when you are ready. I feel sorry for your kids.

From what you have said, she may well be a serial cheater?

I just wonder how it got to this place. You are an avid golfer which means she probably became a golf widow with your golfing stints of 6-7 hours ( I know how that one goes). 
Avid golfing (unless both parties are golfing) often leads to a serious lack of connection in a marriage plus other things!
Just wonder if in some way you too dropped the ball? I would love to hear her side of the story.

However, there is absolutely no excuse for what she is doing.

You sound strong and will get through this.


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## turnera

Hurr said:


> Concerning my wanting to move out instead of her, I think you make more sense especially with the abandonment notion and kids custody. But I think I know how she thinks- *she knows am a good father and would very much want me to be a part of the kids lives*. As to bringing a man to the house, that I doubt.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make this mistake...thinking she's going to be decent. 

SHE WON'T.

I watched my super-nice SIL, who we found out had been having an affair, SAY she was walking away with practically nothing...and the things she has done since she said that have practically made my eyeballs fall out onto the floor. NEVER in my wildest dreams would I have thought her capable of being such a monster. 

But she is.

If you read threads here, you will see that this is the absolute WORST attitude for you to have. 

Get a lawyer tomorrow. Tomorrow. Do NOTHING until your lawyer first vetts it. Please promise us you won't. If you don't do exactly what your lawyer says, you're going to find the OM moved into your home, raising your kids, while you have a restraining order to keep you AWAY from your kids, all while you have to pay her for the pleasure.


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## cgiles

I adivce you to be totally dark about you contacting a lawyer, and preparing the divorce, because seen how she is in contact with her exs and this guy, she is maybe more ready than you believe.

And don't believe she will not be a berserk during the divorce, that's what you believe would do the woman you married. But your wife is no longer this woman.

The one you loved and married is gone, the new one is a stranger smelling, speaking, acting like the one you married, but she is not her.

And for move on emotionally, I advice you the 180 lists : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE

And log everything, like when she was supposed to get the kids, and she didn't.


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## SecondTime'Round

I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.

OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.


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## aine

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.
> 
> OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.


Agree with the air of relief in the story, that's why I brought up the 'avid golfing' :smile2:


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## Hardtohandle

Hurr, Some have already mentioned it..

PLEASE don't expect her to be a decent human being as she wasn't one already by cheating on you.. If she's been lying to you and faking it all along, what makes you think in the slightest she will be nice and reasonable after you out her to family and friends..

My Ex as yours gave me no inclination of having an affair.. Sex was several times a week.. No fights.. no issues.. I found out by chance.. 

But once I told her I knew.. She became a different person.. The woman who loved her kids and did everything for them once outted left me and the kids for this other man.. Mind you she wanted custody but my oldest didn't want to go and such.. So I told her I would fight her in court if necessary.. End result I have physical custody of both kids.. Paid her 10,000 dollars to keep my kids in the end.. They cost me 5k each.. 

This is from a woman who would make cupcakes for the kids for school cook and bake fun things for them. Buy them more cloths than they needed. If you knew her, there would have been no doubt in your mind her life was her kids.. 

Up until I confronted her.. 

We barely fought before then.. 

She ruined our family, our friendship our lives.. I literally live my life with my kids like she doesn't exist.. She has zero input and when she does she minimizes it.. Son having trouble in school, needs a tutor.. I'm making a big deal out of it.. The day before I get a tutor the school offers for free 2 days after school to help with math and english.. I put him in there.. I was happy to save the money because I knew she wasn't going to help out with any money..

I cannot recall the last time we actually spoke to each other since the divorce.. But I remember telling her I loved her every fvcking day when we were together.. 

I hope everything works the way you want it to.. But trust me I would honestly prepare for the worst and hope for the best, because I honestly did not see any of this coming.. 

Mind you, you are clearly stronger than I was when it came to this.. I was utterly beside myself and a total wreck.. I couldn't even think straight at all.. I relied on other people to make sense for me.. I knew I wasn't right and I just had to listen to others to point me in the right direction.. Luckly everyone had sound advice for me or at least I was smart enough to understand what sound advice was..

But do NOT give anything away to her.. You think she will NOT Bring anyone over when you're gone.. 

I didn't think my ex wife would be grooming my youngest to accept this man MONTHS before she decided to leave, when I thought we were working it all out.

This is NOT the woman you think she was when you married her.. 

Keep posting.. Good luck..


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## Thor

Read "The List" and heed the advice!
THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum

All the forums are here:
Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum - Index page

Some good general information from the owners of those forums:
Dads Divorce | Connecting Dads with Resources | Cordell & Cordell


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## Thor

intheory said:


> What is your wife getting out of church? Doesn't make much sense to be a churchgoer and a full-throttled adulteress.


Adultery is quite common amongst church goers and clergy. Humans are still human.

Perhaps she is getting relief from any guilt of the affair by going to church. Maybe she deludes herself by thinking she is a good person for going to church. Maybe she is using church as a cover so people won't think she is doing anything wrong. Maybe she compartmentalizes her affair from the rest of her life, so she doesn't see the contradiction.


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## Blacksmith01

Hardtohandle said:


> Hurr, Some have already mentioned it..
> 
> PLEASE don't expect her to be a decent human being as she wasn't one already by cheating on you.. If she's been lying to you and faking it all along, what makes you think in the slightest she will be nice and reasonable after you out her to family and friends..
> 
> My Ex as yours gave me no inclination of having an affair.. Sex was several times a week.. No fights.. no issues.. I found out by chance..
> 
> But once I told her I knew.. She became a different person.. The woman who loved her kids and did everything for them once outted left me and the kids for this other man.. Mind you she wanted custody but my oldest didn't want to go and such.. So I told her I would fight her in court if necessary.. End result I have physical custody of both kids.. Paid her 10,000 dollars to keep my kids in the end.. They cost me 5k each..
> 
> This is from a woman who would make cupcakes for the kids for school cook and bake fun things for them. Buy them more cloths than they needed. If you knew her, there would have been no doubt in your mind her life was her kids..
> 
> Up until I confronted her..
> 
> We barely fought before then..
> 
> She ruined our family, our friendship our lives.. I literally live my life with my kids like she doesn't exist.. She has zero input and when she does she minimizes it.. Son having trouble in school, needs a tutor.. I'm making a big deal out of it.. The day before I get a tutor the school offers for free 2 days after school to help with math and english.. I put him in there.. I was happy to save the money because I knew she wasn't going to help out with any money..
> 
> I cannot recall the last time we actually spoke to each other since the divorce.. But I remember telling her I loved her every fvcking day when we were together..
> 
> I hope everything works the way you want it to.. But trust me I would honestly prepare for the worst and hope for the best, because I honestly did not see any of this coming..
> 
> Mind you, you are clearly stronger than I was when it came to this.. I was utterly beside myself and a total wreck.. I couldn't even think straight at all.. I relied on other people to make sense for me.. I knew I wasn't right and I just had to listen to others to point me in the right direction.. Luckly everyone had sound advice for me or at least I was smart enough to understand what sound advice was..
> 
> But do NOT give anything away to her.. You think she will NOT Bring anyone over when you're gone..
> 
> I didn't think my ex wife would be grooming my youngest to accept this man MONTHS before she decided to leave, when I thought we were working it all out.
> 
> This is NOT the woman you think she was when you married her..
> 
> Keep posting.. Good luck..


Holy hell. You must have found my ex's long lost twin.


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## Hurr

Thor said:


> Adultery is quite common amongst church goers and clergy. Humans are still human.
> 
> Perhaps she is getting relief from any guilt of the affair by going to church. Maybe she deludes herself by thinking she is a good person for going to church. Maybe she is using church as a cover so people won't think she is doing anything wrong. Maybe she compartmentalizes her affair from the rest of her life, so she doesn't see the contradiction.


To her she has hoodwinked me. I often feel she has so little regard for my feelings, intelligence and respect. I mean how can she go sleep with the OM on Saturday morning and during the Sunday service she happily sits like next to me and starts furiously typing notes in her phone highlighting important Bible verses? I take solace in that even Osama Bin Laden used to pray 5 times a day.


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## Hurr

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.
> 
> OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.


Thanks so much for your lone dissenting voice. At this point in my life, however, I know rationality may not be my strongest attribute. So I will seek those with varying opinions on this issue to guide me. My main worry at this point is just my children's needs. She knows that the children are her biggest bond to me and knowing her, she will not hesitate to use them to meet this need. She would love nothing more than to fight for their upkeep because through them she will get financial support. Also they are good kids and I can think her wanting to keep them to remind her of how a semblance of a normal life looks like. At least in the short term. She doesn't work, so she as the primary caretaker of the kids. Lastly, I relocated the family from my previous home to the current residence to be near my new business. Now that the business has stablished I no longer need to live here. I would love to relocate to my previous home. 

You mention that I sound almost eager to be ending this marriage. That is true. We have had a lousy marriage. This woman checked out a long time ago, maybe 3 years into the marriage. This is going to be the second time I caught her in an affair. The first time we had false R. I really didn't know how to handle it then. And I was desperate to be married so as to "look normal" without knowing the toll this would eventually have in my life. Now that this is happening the second time, I see it as my opportunity to reinvent my self, work out my life afresh, look for someone whom we can have a normal true relationship, share conversations, hang out together, and truly care for each other. This type of marriage this woman wants us to have is simply not my kind of thing. This is an awful marriage.


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## Hurr

intheory said:


> First off, Hurr, you must be feeling miserable. I am sorry you are going through this pain.
> 
> A few observations and questions about your predicament.
> 
> 1 - The friend who called you about this? May not be a friend. This person had a feeling that something funny was going on. But they "played dumb" and called and asked if you had changed addresses. This person MIGHT be the kindest soul on earth. But there is also a chance that s/he is a meddling busybody; and is thoroughly enjoying every minute of this. Just something to keep in mind.
> 
> 2 - What does "severally" mean in this context? Sorry, just trying to understand.
> 
> 3 - When your wife was gone 10x, for 2-6 hours; where were you? Who was watching the kids? Who was fixing dinner or getting the chores done - or how could she miss this much worktime?
> 
> 4 - Why did *you* have to take drives and hide to be alone?
> 
> 5 - If you were going to drop off your kids at the event; why did it matter that they missed the bus?
> 
> 6 - What is your wife getting out of church? Doesn't make much sense to be a churchgoer and a full-throttled adulteress.
> 
> 7 - I would get a PI to set up the cameras. Because what you know now is damning; but not proof positive.
> 
> 8 - I agree with everyone else; she leaves, you don't.


intheory,

Thanks for combing through my post. Here are my answers.

1. Yes, I have myself thought the common friend is enjoying this too much. But then I ask, so what? Does it change or affect the facts? No it doesn't. Is it true that she visits the OM? Yes. Does she park her car there for the world to see? Yes. Does she spend hours with OM in his house? Yes. Also please remember that were it not for this friend, I would never have known about this A. 

2. Severally parked means it was seen parked in the OM apartment Block a number of times in different days.

3. My W doesn't have a job perse. She does part time office supplies. She can stay for days just hanging around. She does not look for work. And she has househelps who come in and do house chores form time to time. Things like washing clothes, ironing,cleaning the house are done that way. So when kids go to school, she has the whole day to herself. And she can extend that to say 10-11pm. In the few days I have been out of town the phone records I have show her talking to the other man at 4.00am. Meaning she just got home and was alerting him that she is safe.

4. So why do I drive away as if am hiding. To read and interpret the phone records that I got from the PI has taken many hours. It has meant that I have to refer to my own diary to know where I was at particular times when she was with the OM. Also I have needed to true caller many of the contacts she has been talking to to know whom she has been talking to. To create a proper pattern of her movements and to map her meetings with the OM has been tedious. I can't exactly remove a 100page dossier and place it on the coffee table and start perusing her phone records, can I. Some discretion was necessary.

5. I was to drop the kids where the bus was to pick them. Being a Saturday this was not a normal school event. They were going on a school tour and both parents and teachers had agreed that we from them at a common pickup point. 

6. Church. Hehehe, maybe she goes there for the purpose of repentance. Maybe she subscribes to the doctrine that she can sing the whole week and so long as she confesses to God on Sunday, her sins will be forgiven. Maybe.

7. Ultimately, the decision of whether it is me to leave or her should in my opinion be pegged strictly on my kids' welfare. This woman will create so much drama claiming that she can't be separated frome her kids and whatnot. My kids are innocent. For them I can leave them in this house. I will even pay for at least 3 more months so that they are not thrown to the streets. This woman cannot afford the rentals I pay for this house. Why punish my kids for the shortcomings of their parents?


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## turnera

Maybe it would be better to move them NOW, so they can get settled in a new place and be better prepared for the new school they will eventually find themselves in. You know, since she can't afford that house, and you won't be able to afford two households for the next 15 years.


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## bandit.45

Why do you think your WW checked out three years into the marriage? 

What were the circumstances around the first affair? Was it a PA?


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## SecondTime'Round

I agree with you that it doesn't matter what the motivation of the friend was (the one who alerted you). Maybe she likes drama and/or gossip, but so what? 

You really need to see an attorney. She doesn't work (much) and can't afford the rent......she's going to be entitled to child support and probably alimony. If if the divorce isn't contested, you're not painting a picture of a woman who's going to take it easy on you, financially speaking.


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## Hurr

Blacksmith01 said:


> Holy hell. You must have found my ex's long lost twin.


You have captured my fears very well. We have 3 beautiful dogs, but the more our marriage has deteriorated the more she has neglected them. She actually mistreats them as a way of getting at me. I can relate with your situation. 

Chances are my wife will probably relocate to another country. And I don't see her going with the kids. The reason she keeps contacts with her exes is for this exact reason. One lives in UK, the other in Canada. And if it came to that, I would probably be the happiest man I can imagine. I would love to personally bring up my gals in a way I know they are not being brought up at this time. She is a good mother to the children, but sometimes she confuses her myopic worldview with reality. In a number of times when we have had differences I have seen her draw the kids into our fights in a way to win their sympathy. My kids deserve to be brought up to appreciate the true beauty of a woman is in her values, personality and character. Not in whorish and loose morals.


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## Hurr

Thor said:


> Read "The List" and heed the advice!
> THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum
> 
> All the forums are here:
> Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum - Index page
> 
> Some good general information from the owners of those forums:
> Dads Divorce | Connecting Dads with Resources | Cordell & Cordell


Thanks Thor. I will be looking into these links later today. In my current situation I need lots of guidance on what to do or not to do.


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## bandit.45

Sounds to me like you disconnected from her the first time she cheated on you and the two of you just never reconnected on any meaningful level. What I think it boils down to is for you to choose whether or not you want a wife or a live-in babysitter who you have sex with every once in a while. 

Me? I would want a wife who is faithful, loves me and desires me and who would be a mother who would offer a good role model for her daughters. 

Your wife is none of these things.


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## Hurr

turnera said:


> Maybe it would be better to move them NOW, so they can get settled in a new place and be better prepared for the new school they will eventually find themselves in. You know, since she can't afford that house, and you won't be able to afford two households for the next 15 years.


Moving now can only happen after I confront her, something that almost everyone here has advised me not to do until the lawyers give me proper advice how to handle this. And after I confront her, I expect at first (for at least one week) she will be ****y and appear like she can move on. In fact since I believe her sister knows about her A very well, I expect they will gang up and even undertake to pay for this house for the foseable future. Such future will at most be 3 months. After that she will probably relocate to a cheaper house. 

About my kids education, that I will continue to pay in full. So it doesn't matter that we divorce as far as their education is concerned. Even their school bus and general upkeep is something I will do with love. What I can't pay, however, is the rent where their mother stays.


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## Hurr

bandit.45 said:


> Sounds to me like you disconnected from her the first time she cheated on you and the two of you just never reconnected on any meaningful level. What I think it boils down to is for you to choose whether or not you want a wife or a live-in babysitter who you have sex with every once in a while.
> 
> Me? I would want a wife who is faithful, loves me and desires me and who would be a mother who would offer a good role model for her daughters.
> 
> Your wife is none of these things.


Hehehe bandit.45, can't agree more. The thing with false R is that the cheater goes underground in a lot of levels. In her case, she tightened the loopholes which had made me catch her in the first place. She stopped using home computer, she put passwords on her devices, hid every possible thing that could enable me know what she is doing. To add insult to injury she looked for, found and destroyed all the backups I had saved of her cheating emails. The net effect is that this created a distance between us, suspicion grew and the marriage became poisoned. Then she refused to work, preferring instead to do small time businesses of selling office stationary, handbags, wallets, shoes etc. Call it hawking. I believe this is how she met the OM.


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## Hurr

SecondTime'Round said:


> I agree with you that it doesn't matter what the motivation of the friend was (the one who alerted you). Maybe she likes drama and/or gossip, but so what?
> 
> You really need to see an attorney. She doesn't work (much) and can't afford the rent......she's going to be entitled to child support and probably alimony. If if the divorce isn't contested, you're not painting a picture of a woman who's going to take it easy on you, financially speaking.


I like your analysis of her situation but let me tell you something interesting. In my first post I wrote that my new business which I moved to our new position to setup is now at least giving me some money. Because she doesn't like the business, or me for that matter she doesn't know this. To her, the business was a bad idea, it translocated her from her social circles, it's not prestigious for her to brag about and it looses me money instead of spending on her. I really struggled for the first two years as any new business would, but now I can see returns starts to trickle in. She doesn't know this. Actually to her I have lost the plot, and I think my paying of school fees for my kids will be good enough for her. But again who knows. As many have already pointed out, she might change to some animal I cannot recognise. But I think that even if any court was to demand of me to pay her alimony and/ or upkeep it would have to be proven that I can afford the amounts decreed. She knows am broke. She doesn't expect much. If she asked for anything like that she would have a hell of time proving that I can afford it. She many times sympathises with my foolishness of running a business without a future. She is that gullible.


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## Hurr

bandit.45 said:


> Why do you think your WW checked out three years into the marriage?
> 
> What were the circumstances around the first affair? Was it a PA?


It's actually 4 years, not 3. And that's about the time I caught her in her first A. 

The circumstance in her first affair. I then ran a business with her and she was the face of the business. The OM man was a customer of ours. That was a truly painful experience. In a way it has acted as a pain cushion for the current A. I can at least now rationalise that this marriage will never get well. It's death is imminent. A man can only fight for so hard for so long. There comes a time to say bye.


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## SunnyT

Talk to an attorney. Depending on what state you live in, child support and/or alimony may not be up for compromise. Many places award the non-working spouse a minimum of 3 years of alimony to get on their feet. 

I think you are doing great, being very rational about it. But go in with your eyes open, knowledge is power. Once you serve her divorce papers, she will try to tell you how it is going to go.....what she wants, expects, and feels entitled to. YOU can have control by educating yourself beforehand. You could look up the divorce laws in your state.... it's all broken into categories and easy to read so you can click around and learn a few things. 

Good luck.... see an attorney!


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## Hurr

aine said:


> This is a bad place to be, but you are making plans already.
> You seem to have gotten lots of good advice here with regard to not leaving the house and exposing the affair when you are ready. I feel sorry for your kids.
> 
> From what you have said, she may well be a serial cheater?
> 
> I just wonder how it got to this place. You are an avid golfer which means she probably became a golf widow with your golfing stints of 6-7 hours ( I know how that one goes).
> Avid golfing (unless both parties are golfing) often leads to a serious lack of connection in a marriage plus other things!
> Just wonder if in some way you too dropped the ball? I would love to hear her side of the story.
> 
> However, there is absolutely no excuse for what she is doing.
> 
> You sound strong and will get through this.


Thanks Aine,

I golf twice a week....Thursday for 2 hours and Saturday from 1pm. She herself has used that same phrase "golf widows". But in a derogatory way. She wasn't complaining at all and I guess she too heard it elsewhere. In any case whenever there are family commitments on Saturdays, I happily drop the golf in favour of family. I hardly ever golf on Sundays. My daughters help to ensure that. That is their family day and we all cherish it so much. Talking of Saturdays I think that's the day she dates.😻😻😻


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## ThePheonix

Ok, here's the deal. It may sound good and really alpha dog to say and think, "we'll just kick the cheating spouse out" The reality is that you cannot do that short of a court order. And a court ain't gonna likely issue such an order if your spouse screwed somebody on on the dining room table before Thanksgiving dinner. Your choice, as a betrayed spouse is limited to going or staying yourself.


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## Hurr

SunnyT said:


> Talk to an attorney. Depending on what state you live in, child support and/or alimony may not be up for compromise. Many places award the non-working spouse a minimum of 3 years of alimony to get on their feet.
> 
> I think you are doing great, being very rational about it. But go in with your eyes open, knowledge is power. Once you serve her divorce papers, she will try to tell you how it is going to go.....what she wants, expects, and feels entitled to. YOU can have control by educating yourself beforehand. You could look up the divorce laws in your state.... it's all broken into categories and easy to read so you can click around and learn a few things.
> 
> Good luck.... see an attorney!


Yes am talking to a lawyer. And he thinks my chances are very good. When it comes to sharing family property, blame Karma there is none. All the property I have (and thanks God for it) I acquired before I married my W. In the 11 years of our marriage I think my mind went on recess, my positive energy got stunted and my self drive got consummated by negative forces. Let me tell you a bad marriage can finish the strongest being. My personality needs a soulmate, a confidant and a fellow dreamer. You can imagine my pain having to daily deal with a ditherer, a cheat, a killer of dreams. 11 years lost. I can't wait to recover lost time.


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## Jung_admirer

Hurr, 100% support to you bro. Unrepentant, serial cheater ... worst of the worst. I agree with the other posters. Your WW engages in serious impression management and this will get ugly when the affair is exposed. If possible, have the PI gather rock solid proof. In fact, meet with your PI and an attorney to create an action plan. Leave nothing to chance-


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## Hurr

ThePheonix said:


> Ok, here's the deal. It may sound good and really alpha dog to say and think, "we'll just kick the cheating spouse out" The reality is that you cannot do that short of a court order. And a court ain't gonna likely issue such an order if your spouse screwed somebody on on the dining room table before Thanksgiving dinner. Your choice, as a betrayed spouse is limited to going or staying yourself.


The Phoenix, thanks God for you. You have expounded this point better than I myself could. Say I decide its her to leave and not me. She will never do this voluntarily short of her discovering the house will be hit by an earthquake, in which case she would simply camp outside. Now throwing her out means packing her bags and putting them outside. The first thing this woman will do is to summon the kids and yap yap how their loving dad has thrown them out, how I hate them, how I will bring another woman with her kids to their home and how she always knew this is what I would one day do. Now my kids are too young and would naturally side with their mum whom in this situation will clearly be the "victim" of a cruel unloving and devilish father. They wouldn't even agree to live with me if I went and got a court order to that effect. I would, at least until they reached an age of understanding, I would be the devil re-incarnate. On the other hand if I choose to be the one to move out, she will still tell the kids how I have abandoned them, how am going to start a new family blah blah blah. But at least in this circumstance they will not witness their mother huddled outside their home, homeless.

Those telling me that she is the one to move out, exactly how do I make this happen?


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## Hurr

Jung_admirer said:


> Hurr, 100% support to you bro. Unrepentant, serial cheater ... worst of the worst. I agree with the other posters. Your WW engages in serious impression management and this will get ugly when the affair is exposed. If possible, have the PI gather rock solid proof. In fact, meet with your PI and an attorney to create an action plan. Leave nothing to chance-


Jung you are right...she is unrepentant. In fact she will fight whatever evidence I bring, short of video.

Now my dilemma is the amount of time the collecting of more evidence will take. Can you imagine living under the same roof knowing how she is screwing the OM man, and pretending I know nothing about it and acting as if all is well. It's so painful. I can't just continue sitting here and pretending that all is well. Tonight she made my favourite dinner and I had to sit at the dinning table and though my kids enjoy this very much, i was bleeding inside. I don't know if I can just continue sitting here pretending all is well as I wait for maybe 2 more weeks for more evidence from the PI. You wouldn't spend 2 weeks sleeping next to a python that is ready to swallow you, would you?


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## Graywolf2

Hurr said:


> Lastly, I relocated the family from my previous home to the current residence to be near my new business. Now that the business has stablished I no longer need to live here. I would love to relocate to my previous home.


You could not confront and move to a state which has divorce laws more advantageous to you? Once you establish residency you could divorce.


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## bandit.45

Hurr said:


> Jung you are right...she is unrepentant. In fact she will fight whatever evidence I bring, short of video.
> 
> Now my dilemma is the amount of time the collecting of more evidence will take. Can you imagine living under the same roof knowing how she is screwing the OM man, and pretending I know nothing about it and acting as if all is well. It's so painful. I can't just continue sitting here and pretending that all is well. Tonight she made my favourite dinner and I had to sit at the dinning table and though my kids enjoy this very much, i was bleeding inside. I don't know if I can just continue sitting here pretending all is well as I wait for maybe 2 more weeks for more evidence from the PI. You wouldn't spend 2 weeks sleeping next to a python that is ready to swallow you, would you?


Other BHs have done it. You seem like a strong guy and you can too. Hell, LuvMyJava's wife was OPENLY getting dressed up and leaving the house on Friday nights to go be with her OM, right in front of LMJ and their daughters. He endured that hell for weeks before that hellcat finally moved out. He's doing great now and she's not doing so great, already cheating on the OM she cheated on LMJ with.


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## Jung_admirer

Hurr said:


> Jung you are right...she is unrepentant. In fact she will fight whatever evidence I bring, short of video.
> 
> Now my dilemma is the amount of time the collecting of more evidence will take. Can you imagine living under the same roof knowing how she is screwing the OM man, and pretending I know nothing about it and acting as if all is well. It's so painful. I can't just continue sitting here and pretending that all is well. Tonight she made my favourite dinner and I had to sit at the dinning table and though my kids enjoy this very much, i was bleeding inside. I don't know if I can just continue sitting here pretending all is well as I wait for maybe 2 more weeks for more evidence from the PI. You wouldn't spend 2 weeks sleeping next to a python that is ready to swallow you, would you?


You make a very valid point. But... Haven't you been sleeping with a python since the last DD? Do the best you can for yourself and your children. No one can ask more than that.


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## Thor

Hurr said:


> My main worry at this point is just my children's needs.


Their needs include spending a lot of time with you, and for you to have $ to pay for necessities and niceties for them.

If you move out, you put all of that at risk. Please don't move out until you consult with a good divorce atty.


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## MattMatt

Hurr said:


> Thanks so much for your advise. Ours will be a no contest divorce. That am sure. Unless she changes tune, we have had a couple go through such a painful divorce that she swore never to want to undergo the same.
> 
> Concerning my wanting to move out instead of her, I think you make more sense especially with the abandonment notion and kids custody. But I think I know how she thinks- she knows am a good father and would very much want me to be a part of the kids lives. As to bringing a man to the house, that I doubt. This is a gated community and everyone know everyone else. In any case am planning to expose her to two of her best friends who live here. She would find it had to bring a man here, at least for the foreseable future.
> 
> Talking of a man, if this woman was to move out, she would demand being the primary caregiver for our kids. In a new environment, I fear she would more easily bring in men there because she has nobody to hide from. That am almost certain


You'll be surprised how evil some spouses can get. Don't underestimate what she can/could do.

BTW, in which country are you?


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## TRy

Hurr said:


> Jung you are right...she is unrepentant. In fact she will fight whatever evidence I bring, short of video.
> 
> Now my dilemma is the amount of time the collecting of more evidence will take. Can you imagine living under the same roof knowing how she is screwing the OM man, and pretending I know nothing about it and acting as if all is well. It's so painful. I can't just continue sitting here and pretending that all is well. Tonight she made my favourite dinner and I had to sit at the dinning table and though my kids enjoy this very much, i was bleeding inside. I don't know if I can just continue sitting here pretending all is well as I wait for maybe 2 more weeks for more evidence from the PI. You wouldn't spend 2 weeks sleeping next to a python that is ready to swallow you, would you?


 Since it will not matter to the divorce judge, why do you need more evidence to prove that she is cheating? You know enough to divorce her and to tell your family and freinds. 

Although it is not really needed, try to get a confession out of her by doing the following. Record it if possible and do the following. Sit her down with no one else around and with no distractions (get baby sitting if you can). Look her in the eyes and with a solid voice of confidence and say "I know that you are having an affair with (state his name). Before I decide on what to do next I need to know, do you love him?" Ask this questions and then shut up. Be willing to wait a long time for her to answer without saying anything. After a long time if you must, ask her again, "do you love him?" Do not saying anything after that as you wait for her to answer. If tries to change the subject, just keeping asking her if she loves him, and then shut up again. If done right there is a good chance that she will answer this because you are not asking her if she cheated, which she is ready to deny, but you are asking her if she loves him, which she will be more open to answer even if it indirectly answers the affair question. I have seen where this has worked before.


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## Blacksmith01

Hurr said:


> Jung you are right...she is unrepentant. In fact she will fight whatever evidence I bring, short of video.
> 
> Now my dilemma is the amount of time the collecting of more evidence will take. Can you imagine living under the same roof knowing how she is screwing the OM man, and pretending I know nothing about it and acting as if all is well. It's so painful. I can't just continue sitting here and pretending that all is well. Tonight she made my favourite dinner and I had to sit at the dinning table and though my kids enjoy this very much, i was bleeding inside. I don't know if I can just continue sitting here pretending all is well as I wait for maybe 2 more weeks for more evidence from the PI. You wouldn't spend 2 weeks sleeping next to a python that is ready to swallow you, would you?


You will do what you have to do for you and your kids. I had to wait a lot longer than two weeks. It sucks but you need to stay the course.


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## happyman64

Hurr

Two more weeks may be all you need to de-skin the Viper.

Have a lawyer guide you. 

Get your paperwork together.

Then two Saturdays from this one instead of playing golf. Leave the house.

Wait till your wife gets comfortable at the OM's apartment.

Collect your girls and take them for a ride.

To the OM's apartment. Put them on the hood of her car and take a picture.

Text her that picture with a short message "The D paperwork is in an envelope under the wiper blade. Please review and don't come home until you are ready to discuss an amicable divorce that focus's on our children.

If you cannot do that then please do not come home.

Hurr"

That is what you should do. Then expose her Affair to friends and family if she does not keep it amicable.

HM


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## Chaparral

You said she calls him. Set up VARs in the house and car. Leave and go somewhere. You will have all you need in a day or two.


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## aine

You have to be strong for your kids, two weeks in the grand scheme of things is not so long and you will have a better result. Play a bit more golf 

Your kids are young but not too young not to know something is off. Once you get your evidence, you confront her and tell her she has to move out and the kids stay.
Otherwise you will drag her through the mud. She has to do it for the kids to give them some normality and stability. She was the one who brought it to this so she will just have to suck it up.
Yes you have to also expose her to everyone who will listen, family, friends, neighbors whomever so she cannot cry foul and say her husband is wicked.
The children will be fine as long as you are there for them and explain that mummy is 'visiting' a sick friend or something like that.


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## Lostinthought61

You should At least get it on video, if your friend is willing to help you....capture her going into the apartment...then wait a while then have the person come to the door and say that her car is smoking and wait for her to come out.....all on video...this's you can then show the family.


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## OldWolf57

H, sorry you have to be here, but as you can see, you'll get some good advice.
I was leaning toward you moving out at first, but after reading you won't be able to handle two households, I go with staying for now.
One reason is that if you can get her to go, you'll be able to move somewhere lower priced.
Either way, expect her to lawyer up, and him to request all financial doc's.
She may be in the dark, but he won't. So expect the worst.

I cringe reading how she uses the kids. She has been brainwashing them for years, about you leaving them. So that stage is already set.
Your job with the lawyer, is forcing her to get them into IC as soon as this go down.
On this you take no prisoners, and you force the visitation if they refuse. Show them you are fighting to spend time with them.
If you have to, set up IC for them on your visitations day.
This will show any judge that you are trying to help them heal from the breakup. AND if you can get her on the VAR telling them crap, all the better to let the IC hear her.

Hurr, I can see you rubbing your hands in glee at FINALLY getting rid of this cancer, but hang in there a little longer.
As Chap said, get a couple of VARs. Place 1 in her car, and the other where she talks in the house. It won't take as long as you think. Especially from the one in the car.
Now I don't know how it works in your area, but breaking into his house to place recorders may not be legal.
I know I know, people don't expect me to say that, but if it was me, yeah I would AND set up a web site.
If she is as concerned about her rep, you promising to send the address to friends and family will fold her like the cheap sh#t she is.
I take no prisoners, and the depths I will go to get even has not been reached yet. I don't expect that of you, but playing a little dirty is needed in this life.

So stick around and sound us out.


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## morituri

Hurr said:


> *Chances are my wife will probably relocate to another country. And I don't see her going with the kids.*


Why does this concern me so much? If the girls are emotionally attached to their mother and vice versa, it would stand to reason that she would want to take them with her.


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## Hurr

morituri said:


> Why does this concern me so much? If the girls are emotionally attached to their mother and vice versa, it would stand to reason that she would want to take them with her.


Well, she is emotionally attached to the kids that am sure and the kids love her just as any kid their age loves their mother. But I think when it comes to choosing between someone who professes love to her, she might choose love from the man over love for her kids. If you look at her life since the A became apparent I think this hypothesis can be proven. Last Saturday she chose to spend the day with the OM instead of going to pick our kids. She has already chosen to spend evenings with the OM instead of doing homework with her kids. She makes 1-2 hour phone calls to her OM and exes in the presence of her kids. Do the maths.


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## bandit.45

Hurr said:


> Hehehe bandit.45, can't agree more. The thing with false R is that the cheater goes underground in a lot of levels. In her case, she tightened the loopholes which had made me catch her in the first place. S*he stopped using home computer, she put passwords on her devices, hid every possible thing that could enable me know what she is doing. To add insult to injury she looked for, found and destroyed all the backups I had saved of her cheating emails. *The net effect is that this created a distance between us, suspicion grew and the marriage became poisoned. Then she refused to work, preferring instead to do small time businesses of selling office stationary, handbags, wallets, shoes etc. Call it hawking. I believe this is how she met the OM.


And for these reasons you should have filed long ago. 

Let me ask you, if the question has not already been put to you...

Have you verified through DNA testing that your children are yours?


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## Hurr

bandit.45 said:


> And for these reasons you should have filed long ago.
> 
> Let me ask you, if the question has not already been put to you...
> 
> Have you verified through DNA testing that your children are yours?


Hehehe, the kids are mine. I have not verified by DNA and I won't. Let's put it this way, what will I be proving if say I find am not their biological dad? She cheats, that's proven. So DNA, whether positive or negative will not answer that question. Supposing they are not biologically mine, am still their dad, right? It's not like I will stop loving them or paying their upkeep or whatever. They know me as their father, am their dad. 

A man can only take so much beating at a time.


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## bandit.45

Hurr said:


> Hehehe, the kids are mine. I have not verified by DNA and I won't. Let's put it this way, what will I be proving if say I find am not their biological dad? She cheats, that's proven. So DNA, whether positive or negative will not answer that question. Supposing they are not biologically mine, am still their dad, right? It's not like I will stop loving them or paying their upkeep or whatever. They know me as their father, am their dad.
> 
> A man can only take so much beating at a time.


I like your attitude. All I'm looking out for is your sanity. Doubts like this can eat away at a man's psyche. Given the way she has abused you over the years I would hate to see you go through more torment.


----------



## MattMatt

Also if you don't get DNA proof the kids are yours she could pretend they are not yours.

BTW are you in the USA or elsewhere? This will impact on what advice we can give you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hurr

MattMatt said:


> Also if you don't get DNA proof the kids are yours she could pretend they are not yours.
> 
> BTW are you in the USA or elsewhere? This will impact on what advice we can give you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MattMatt,

Luckily (maybe) am not in the USA though I have lived there on and off. .so I might get away with some things I couldn't get away with if I was there currently. Things like setting spy cameras are more relaxed here. And the legal systems are very different, in a good way. She cannot for example use the law to force a share of property that I owned prior to my marrying her. Allso the laws here are not as straight, clear-cut and as complex as they are there. For example getting her phone records with so much details would almost be impossible to lay my hands upon in USA.

My worry is that i have already revealed so much about my situation. A few more details and someone who knows someone who knows her might alert her. At this point, it's very important that she doesn't know of my plans.


----------



## Hurr

intheory said:


> Wow, she's a real louse. I have a special revulsion for people who mistreat animals. But she does it to get to you? Watch your back, Hurr. This is a _bad_ person.
> ---------------
> You are a great dad. This is what "real men" do.
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> Before you get into another relationship (sometime in the future, I realize that), you might want to consider what attracted you to a woman who mistreats animals, is a multiple cheater; all while allowing you to support her. It's not your "fault", that's not what I am saying at all. It's just that, for whatever reason, you "picked" this person. And you don't ever want to pick someone like that again.


Intheory I have burnt much a midnight oil asking myself these same questions. My conclusions are like this....in my younger days I was a high-flying IT specialist, travelling a lot, enjoying good life, and generally partying a lot. Time moved fast and I think I didn't pay a lot of attention to marriage. It didn't help that I didn't come from a luvvy-duvvy family background where people expressed love openly. I think when it came to settling down, I made some assumptions. I was 34, felt family pressure, had made some investments so why not marry? Look for a beautiful woman who seems to come from a stable background, bring her to your house, marry her and live happily ever after. Only that the this happiness was so shortlived it hardly ever was.

How I wish one could re-live their past?


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## farsidejunky

PM a moderator and request that your thread be moved to the private section.


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## Hurr

OldWolf57 said:


> H, sorry you have to be here, but as you can see, you'll get some good advice.
> I was leaning toward you moving out at first, but after reading you won't be able to handle two households, I go with staying for now.
> One reason is that if you can get her to go, you'll be able to move somewhere lower priced.
> Either way, expect her to lawyer up, and him to request all financial doc's.
> She may be in the dark, but he won't. So expect the worst.
> 
> I cringe reading how she uses the kids. She has been brainwashing them for years, about you leaving them. So that stage is already set.
> Your job with the lawyer, is forcing her to get them into IC as soon as this go down.
> On this you take no prisoners, and you force the visitation if they refuse. Show them you are fighting to spend time with them.
> If you have to, set up IC for them on your visitations day.
> This will show any judge that you are trying to help them heal from the breakup. AND if you can get her on the VAR telling them crap, all the better to let the IC hear her.
> 
> Hurr, I can see you rubbing your hands in glee at FINALLY getting rid of this cancer, but hang in there a little longer.
> As Chap said, get a couple of VARs. Place 1 in her car, and the other where she talks in the house. It won't take as long as you think. Especially from the one in the car.
> Now I don't know how it works in your area, but breaking into his house to place recorders may not be legal.
> I know I know, people don't expect me to say that, but if it was me, yeah I would AND set up a web site.
> If she is as concerned about her rep, you promising to send the address to friends and family will fold her like the cheap sh#t she is.
> I take no prisoners, and the depths I will go to get even has not been reached yet. I don't expect that of you, but playing a little dirty is needed in this life.
> 
> So stick around and sound us out.


OldWold, 😹😹😹😹😹no doubt your name describes the owner much the same way a mango fruit won't fall far from the mango tree. 😂😂😂. But I understand your approach and appreciate your courage. Sometimes one needs to get a fair compensation for what they dish to others. 

In my case whatever I do I must remember that kids that I love who deserve to grow respectable you are involved. Let's say, for example I put up a website then I attach all the offensive material I have then someone uploads it. My kids will grow with a tag...those are the kids of that ***** whose husband posted her extra-marital videos for the world to see. Or even when they come of age supposing they stabled on such material. My thinking is, the kids are innocent. Unfortunately their innocence won't save them from the pain brought about by two adults who couldn't respect holy matrimony. We have let these kids down for our failure to live family values strong enough to guarantee a happy, united and loving family. Sex is over-rated, and so is love for I cannot understand what else their mother could be getting from the OM.

Yes, my children will need counseling. Even more than that I hope I can teach them that when it comes to their time to marry, being happy with their spouse is not a myth. There are many happy couples enjoying their marriages, so can my children. Cheats think they are happy, and maybe they are but for only small stints of time.


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## SecondTime'Round

Hurr said:


> Allso the laws here are not as straight, clear-cut and as complex as they are there. For example getting her phone records with so much details would almost be impossible to lay my hands upon in USA.


I was wondering how you did that!


----------



## Hurr

farsidejunky said:


> PM a moderator and request that your thread be moved to the private section.


PM, you lose me there. This is my first post ever, so I may not be understanding many things, but thanks for guiding me, and I appreciate so much. What is to PM? Moderator? How do I do that? Also am wondering why. Please tell me like a small kindergartener and I will be very thankful.


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## ThePheonix

Hurr my man, you sound like youre on the right path handling this situation. It impressive the way you desire to deal directly with the problem (getting rid of this vampire) and leaving this other stuff like confronting the other man, telling relatives, etc., ect., primarily designed to eliminate the competition and intimidate the spouse to stay with you. You apparently know the score Dawg. :wink2:


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## OldWolf57

I see where you're coming from about the kids Hurr, I was just expressing a way to get her to back down.
Now if the recording laws are as relaxed as you say, you could get the recording and tell her you are inviting everyone to come see her movie star roll.

In my humble opinion you already have enough proof.
1. He's an old boyfriend.
2. You have proof she spends lots of time inside his residence.
3. You have phone records showing her calling him a lot.
4. You have a witness she is there a lot.
My man, anyone with common sense can see that for what it is.
As said, you have enough. Pull the trigger.


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## scatty

It seems as though you have enough evidence for yourself to come to a decision.


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## morituri

Hurr said:


> Well, she is emotionally attached to the kids that am sure and the kids love her just as any kid their age loves their mother. But I think when it comes to choosing between someone who professes love to her, she might choose love from the man over love for her kids. If you look at her life since the A became apparent I think this hypothesis can be proven. Last Saturday she chose to spend the day with the OM instead of going to pick our kids. She has already chosen to spend evenings with the OM instead of doing homework with her kids. She makes 1-2 hour phone calls to her OM and exes in the presence of her kids. Do the maths.


Hurr, you know your STBXWW better than any of us ever will and she might act in the fashion you describe if she ever finds herself head over heals over another man, but I would advise you to still legally guard yourself so that she can't take the girls out of the country. That would be destructive to the children.


----------



## weightlifter

Hurr said:


> Good people at TAM, please help me sail through this storm. My heart is broken, but funny enough I feel some relief and calm that's confounding. Sorry for such a long post.


South Africa? You type like wideopen dave from SA.
As for getting thru, Read the whole story by poster BFF. Crash and burn followed by epic end.


----------



## Hurr

Good people at TAMS,

You have all been very helpful, thank you so much. You are truly a family and there is no way any of the people I know could have given me so much useful evidence. Now this is my decision. Am going to confront her this weekend. As some of you have clearly pointed out, the evidence I have is enough. This is how I have come to this conclusion.

1. I have evidence that she goes to this man's house often. As someone pointed out, she might argue that he is gay, or that she goes there to learn how to play the Violin. If that be the case, then she should take me there coming Sunday afternoon for tea. I too can do with a lesson of playing the Violin. And I don't have enough friends - I could do with one more, even a gay one.

2. I have evidence that she calls him often during the day and always usually the last call or sms at night. Even when am not at home, she doesn't call me before she retires to bed. But she calls him. What a lucky friend?

3. About exposing her to her friends and family, I will do it. The reason I will expose her to her "loved" ones is so that they can understand that it's my decision to leave her and not the other way. That way she can't yearn and twist stories to whitewash her whorish lifestyle. I will however, not confront the other man. It is useless to do so because if she is a serial cheater as many of us feel, then I will have to be her bodyguard to fight all the OMen. I signed up to be her husband not security officer. 

4. The biggest decision I have to make is that one of who moves out. This woman will not walk out, never. She would have to be thrown out. Many on this forum have argued that she should be the one to leave, not me. So how exactly do you make that happen? I have already explained that she will use the kids as her shield. She will get them involved in an ugly way. She will wail persecution. She will tell the kids that am throwing all of them out of their house, that I no longer love them, that I have another woman with her kids that I want to bring to their home and all such kind of stuff. This is the last decision I have to make. If only someone can show me how to throw her out without the kids being drawn into this mess!!!!!!

Am thinking Friday would be a good day to confront her. I will keep you posted great people.


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## morituri

Hurr said:


> I will however, not confront the other man. It is useless to do so because if she is a serial cheater as many of us feel, then I will have to be her bodyguard to fight all the OMen. I signed up to be her husband not security officer.


You may want to think about this one but not for the usual reasons given. If the OM is one of those rare types that is in love with your STBXWW, then it may be an opportunity for him to step up to the plate and take over as her SO responsible for ALL her needs. Letting him know to "go for it" just might help to have her move out of your home and move in with him and play the newly happy couple.



> The biggest decision I have to make is that one of who moves out. This woman will not walk out, never. She would have to be thrown out. Many on this forum have argued that she should be the one to leave, not me. So how exactly do you make that happen? I have already explained that she will use the kids as her shield. She will get them involved in an ugly way. She will wail persecution. She will tell the kids that am throwing all of them out of their house, that I no longer love them, that I have another woman with her kids that I want to bring to their home and all such kind of stuff. This is the last decision I have to make. If only someone can show me how to throw her out without the kids being drawn into this mess!!!!!!
> 
> Am thinking Friday would be a good day to confront her. I will keep you posted great people.


There is a third option. Nobody moves out. What is the hurry anyway? Sure it can suck but since you are (and maybe have been) emotionally disconnected from her for years (lousy marriage and prior marital infidelity) you may be able to endure it. Of course this depends on whether staying will cause more drama than one of the two moving out, so you'll have to question the viability of this option to your situation. It's worth considering.


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## cgiles

First you need a var on you all the time, even if you are in two consent country, because better to be charged for illegal recording than domestic abuse.

Then it can be useful for the custody battle.

Have you got a spare bedroom ?

If yes just move her belongings in it, put a lock on your main bedroom, and sleep in separate rooms.


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## SecondTime'Round

Why are you so positive she's going to tell the kids all sorts of wild lies about you?


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## bryanp

I assume that you have been checked for STD's?


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## turnera

Hurr said:


> 3. About exposing her to her friends and family, I will do it. The reason I will expose her to her "loved" ones is so that they can understand that it's my decision to leave her and not the other way. That way she can't yearn and twist stories to whitewash her whorish lifestyle. I will however, not confront the other man. It is useless to do so because if she is a serial cheater as many of us feel, then I will have to be her bodyguard to fight all the OMen. I signed up to be her husband not security officer.
> 
> 4. The biggest decision I have to make is that one of who moves out. This woman will not walk out, never. She would have to be thrown out. Many on this forum have argued that she should be the one to leave, not me. So how exactly do you make that happen? I have already explained that she will use the kids as her shield. She will get them involved in an ugly way. She will wail persecution. She will tell the kids that am throwing all of them out of their house, that I no longer love them, that I have another woman with her kids that I want to bring to their home and all such kind of stuff. This is the last decision I have to make. If only someone can show me how to throw her out without the kids being drawn into this mess!!!!!!


Two things. You expose typically to stop the cheating. To save the marriage. If you're just exposing to make her look bad, people will KNOW, and it will bite you in the butt. That said, I do agree in letting her people know what's really going on, though. Basically, 'informing' people has a different 'tint' on it than exposing.

And you act as though your wife has all the control over your kids. They are old enough to know what's going on. Harley has a lot of good information on how to tell the kids in an age-appropriate way (and trust me, 8 and 11 are old enough to know the truth). And kids NEED to know that one of their parents will tell them the truth, no matter how ugly that truth. So, to stop her from holding the kids hostage as you think she will, all you do is sit them down and tell them the truth about why the two of you are separating. That way, they feel as safe as possible (knowing someone will tell them the truth no matter what). And that way, you can make future decisions for the right reasons, not out of fear.


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## Blacksmith01

Locke.Stratos said:


> arrangements at a later time?
> 
> Also since you're set on ending this marriage why bother with the confrontation, why deal with that s***. See your lawyer, file and have her served.


I like this idea. Leave her in the dark as far as why. I think it would really make her wonder and worry.


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## just got it 55

Blacksmith01 said:


> I like this idea. Leave her in the dark as far as why. I think it would really make her wonder and worry.


I agree wonder and worry will put her in panic mode

Then her mistakes will happen

55


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## Graywolf2

Hurr said:


> The biggest decision I have to make is that one of who moves out. This woman will not walk out, never. She would have to be thrown out. Many on this forum have argued that she should be the one to leave, not me. So how exactly do you make that happen?


Don’t touch her. I read about a guy that picked up his wife and carried her out of the front door. She slipped from his grasp and fell. She wasn’t hurt but he was charged with domestic abuse. When it hits the fan you should have a VAR on yourself.


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## 3putt

Graywolf2 said:


> *When it hits the fan you should have a VAR on yourself.*


Just in case you missed it.


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## morituri

A recording of your STBXWW admitting to having an affair with an OM can be used as a weapon of last resort to destroy her reputation with others IF and only IF she tries to destroy yours.


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## Hurr

BREAKING NEWS.

I confronted her tonight.

I came home at about 9pm. She was in the gals bedroom. I remembered some of you like Turnera telling me that my gals are not as young or naive as I may make them look. And I felt this urge to get in and we just have this conversation. 

So I get in. It's like my W could tell something BIG was about to happen. She's there lying on the elder ones bed. Both the gals were lying in the younger ones bed. So I sit on the bed W is lying on. And my talk with the gals begin. 

" life sometimes doesn't work as it should. Life is full of ups and downs. Sometimes things don't happen as we want. There will always be challenges in life. I and ur mum love you very much. That u must always know.........". At this time my eldest starts weeping. The youngest is all jolly and "happy". She always acts the tough one. The moment is very tense. W is all quiet.

"Ur mum and I love u gals. But that does not mean mum and I love each other the same way we love you. It's likely that ur mum loves another man. That happens. It's life. Sometimes grownups do that." Unexpected silence from W. Now both kids are visibly in tears. The eldest looks very hurt. The youngest is mainly crying cos the eldest is crying. W is sheepishly quiet.

"Ur mum loves another man than she loves me. His name is P.... D..." She's is just quiet. Now even I get uneasy. The gals are like "P... Who? Is it true mum?. Is it? Say something mum". She is just there, this time not sheepishly but like a sheep, pan intended.

From there things deteriorate very fast.

Everyone expect W is hysterical. And the eldest is like ..." Dad don't do this...it's not fair to mum. It's not true." So am like ok, let's go. Am gonna show u the man and his house. Now let's go.

By the time we reach my car, what I had suspected my W would do is already happening. She is regrouping. Wailing is more like it. Creating attention. But I think am ready for this. By the time I start my car the eldest is in. Unfortunately the youngest gets caught by the mum. The two of us are gone. I drive away with the eldest. Can I hear someone yelling in the background or am I imagining?

When we get to the main road, the eldest calms down, and she is like, "dad drive carefully". I didn't know I was driving not so well, so I calm down, and all seems well. Then I take the first turn and the next then the gal says something that shocks me..." Dad we've been here before. With mum. Ok, dad, u r right. Mum brought us here ones to collect a garden umbrella. The one we used during my sis birthday. Turn right dad, now left. Slow down. Dad we are almost. Now turn immediate left. That's the house dad. Now just park somewhere." So I park. It's a block of apartments. There are many blocks. But my daughter guides me to block E. From my previous PI work I know the OM man stays in E2... It's simply not coincidence. The gal has been there before. And we get to E2.... We knock. No answer. We knock. Nothing. And then another miracle happens...miracles do still happen. "dad why don't we check with the neighbors. Let's just knock the next door. Just Knock dad." 

Who is the neighbor who comes out of the next apartment? ...my former employee. The immediate next door neighbor to the OM is my former employee. He knows the OM. They are buddies. So much for one night folks. It's late here. Am so tired. Tomorrow please.


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## happyman64

Hurr

Stay calm. Keep the kids out of it. And do not let your wife take control. 

No drinking. No driving. 

Just spend time with the kids and. Tell your wife what the plan will be. 

HM


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## turnera

Wow. Gotta say, I've never seen anything play out like this. Not sure I would have advised you to (1) confront the wife in front of the kids or (2) TAKE your daughters to see the OM, but, oh well. Turns out for the better this time.

So what ended up happening?


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## ThePheonix

This story is starting to have more twist and turns than the daughter's trip to the OM house.


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## Hurr

So we are welcomed in. This former employee of mine and his wife are having some red wine. I gather they have like two kids. Shock is written on their faces. What is it am doing there at this hour, with a young gal knocking on doors? So I tell them my story, why am there at that not so holy hour, whom we are looking for and and everything. And they narrate their story.

The OM in probably 26 or 27. Single and never been married before. My W has been visiting him for the last like 3 years. This guy is described as sort of weird, never seen with other girls, hand washes and irons his clothes, never has any visitors whatsoever, cleans his house, drives a red Toyota saloon car. Although my "host" has invited the OM several times whenever he has functions in his houset, the OM has never had any sort of function all these years and has never invited him to his house even for a cup of tea. The OM works for a company that distributes Wines and Spirits. And then it occurs to me that about 3-4 years ago I actually met the OM at his company. And who took me there? My W. I think at that time, my W had gotten a deal to transport some wines and spirits to some neighboring country. And if am not wrong she had gone there to pick the now infamous garden umbrella, the sort given freely by such companies for advertising. The umbrella was branded some of their alcohol products.

So we find that it's getting late. My friend escorts both my daughter and I to out car. He shows us the OM car parked ostensibly not more than 4 parking space' slots from mine. As we drive off, I find my father-in-law (FIL) calling me on my phone. I give it to my daughter to answer. Clearly both my W and my FIL are cut from the same cloth. I can hear my daughter protesting. It's like she is being told all this is not true, that my W is innocent etc. My daughter tells him she has been to this OM house with my W, and the old man will hear nothing of. At this point am losing my patience. I pick the phone and I let the old man have a few of my not too kind words. I tell him that his so called loving daughter is not as innocent as he would like to believe, that I am through with this marriage, that he should encourage her to move to the OM house. And that its final with us. 

We get back home. It's late now. My W is in the kids' bedroom. I don't to her and I let her sleep there. She better get herself a good sleep, cos it might be her last in this house.


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## Lostinthought61

I am so sorry you are going through this....stay strong


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## BobSimmons

ThePheonix said:


> This story is starting to have more twist and turns than the daughter's trip to the OM house.


You think :wink2:


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## SecondTime'Round

I'm sorry, I think it's 100% wrong the way you handled this, putting your kids in the middle of this drama. This will scar them for life . I know you were afraid of her getting to them first and spreading lies about you, but this was NOT the way to do this. I'm really feeling heartbroken for your kids. My mouth was hanging open the whole time I was reading that .


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## EllisRedding

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm sorry, I think it's 100% wrong the way you handled this, putting your kids in the middle of this drama. This will scar them for life . I know you were afraid of her getting to them first and spreading lies about you, but this was NOT the way to do this. I'm really feeling heartbroken for your kids. My mouth was hanging open the whole time I was reading that .


Horrible situation but I have to 100% agree with SecondTime'Round. As someone who had to deal with parents that eventually got divorced, I have more vivid memories even now of the times I got pulled into their mess than any of the "happy" moments.


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## convert

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm sorry, I think it's 100% wrong the way you handled this, putting your kids in the middle of this drama. This will scar them for life . I know you were afraid of her getting to them first and spreading lies about you, but this was NOT the way to do this. I'm really feeling heartbroken for your kids. My mouth was hanging open the whole time I was reading that .


Well maybe, but now the OP's WW can't gaslight the girls and poison them against their dad and the OP was worried about that.

and besides the WW already brought the girls into this by taking them to OM's house.

I usually only agree with extreme exposure when trying to save the marriage but sometimes exposure even when divorcing can help.


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## giddiot

The children should never have been involved. Its sickening that you would use your children this way. This will affect them the rest of their lives. If you do divorce just wait till her lawyer tells the judge what you did. Hope you at least get visitation rights.


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## MrBeaman

It never goes down the way we want it to. I don't think it went down that bad actually. Considering the wife was bringing the kids there already...

The truth is out, it probably will never go to court and everything will be sunshine and lollipops 6-12 months from now.

Hurr take care of your kids and yourself. It's your turn to be selfish. Get some good advice from a good lawyer. Make an agreement that is fair for both parties and turn the page.


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## G.J.

Was it just the once your daughter went there for the umbrella or a lot of times?


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## Hurr

How I wish there is a script. The whole idea of TAM, why all of us are here and feel fulfilled that way is for that very same reason. There is no script. We create our own script. With touch-ups here and there, the script ultimately gets done. So folks, let's be slow to condemn. Those who have been following me know that there are two sticking issues that I have been grumbling with....

1. Most of you advise me to NOT leave. That she should be the one to leave. I kept asking, how do you ensure that she is the one who leaves? Short of throwing her out how do you get her to be the one to leave?

2. I told you that she would draw the kids into this ugly scenario. I warned that she would draw them into the chaos. So unless we now want to bury our heads in the sand, the kids were going to get involved anyway. The question is this, was I going to wait for her to get them involved in her own way, or were I going to seize the situation and get them involved in my own way.

I wish we could somehow explain these issues.


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## morituri

giddiot said:


> The children should never have been involved. Its sickening that you would use your children this way. This will affect them the rest of their lives. If you do divorce just wait till her lawyer tells the judge what you did. Hope you at least get visitation rights.


 @giddiot Or his lawyer tells how she took their children to her lover's den. That should gain her some sympathy as a "good mother".


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## turnera

Hurr, it's just that you combined the confrontation with telling the kids. And on top of that, you TOOK your daughter to confront the OM! WTH?!

Yes, they needed to be told. In a safe, quiet, environment where they're then left to sit there, in safety, and contemplate their future. Not go off on a mission (their DAD's mission) to stand up to the OM. 

I'm glad it turned out relatively ok, but it had all the makings of a Lifetime movie. So just ask some more questions before taking such a big step again, ok?

And line up a therapist for the kids.

What's the wife doing at the moment?


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## Lostinthought61

Hurr,

In the light of day has she approached you at all? to talk about anything?


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## Dyokemm

I can't help but think that, while many won't like how the daughters were brought into this, Hurr may have just saved himself from a major campaign of galighting and vilification by his WW and her family.

Based on the call his FIL had just minutes into this blowup....either his WW has already been engaged in a vilification campaign against Hurr with her family for some time....OR his FIL is as big a POS as his disgusting daughter.

Either way....if the daughters had NOT been made aware of what was going on and who POSOM truly was, IMO Hurr would have very soon have found himself in a situation where his own children were being taught daily to despise and hate him....to blame Hurr for destroying and abandoning the family.

I do not blame him one bit for taking the necessary steps to make sure his WW and in-laws could not pull that bullsh*t scheme off.

I simply cannot believe that FIL was basically arguing with and calling his granddaughter a liar when she is flat out telling him that she knows it is true because her cheating mother had brought her and her sister to this POSOM's house previously.

If FIL's dedication to protecting and backing his lying, worthless daughter is so strong that he would challenge his own granddaughter this way....imagine how it would go down for Hurr in this situation if he had kept his kids totally in the dark.


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## morituri

turnera said:


> And line up a therapist for the kids.


Spot on.

Hurr it is of absolute and of extreme importance that you make it your mission to have your daughters receive professional help to deal with the trauma. THEY are the innocents in this whole sordid drama. THEY are what matter now.


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## bandit.45

Hurr, do you reside in England?


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## giddiot

@morituri: You know the funny thing, Judges could care less about infidenlity in a custody hearing but they won't with involving them in a confrontation. CPS will eat him up.


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## morituri

@giddiot That is why he should not sign anything without his own non-court ordered attorney present otherwise he would be signing away his right to a trial where CPS would have to prove their case rather to make allegations in their social worker report to the court. There is no immunity for CPS under federal civil rights law.


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## Dyokemm

" @morituri: You know the funny thing, Judges could care less about infidenlity in a custody hearing but they won't with involving them in a confrontation. CPS will eat him up."

Uhh...no....bringing your children around your AP can indeed be viewed very negatively by the courts, though the extent varies from state to state.

I read a thread awhile ago on another site where a BS received a favorable judgement because their WS was purposely bringing the POS AP around the kids and encouraging them to bond...the judge accepted the BS's complaint that it was a campaign of parental alienation against them and ordered it stopped immediately....was not very happy with the WS at all. 

And OP can always claim that he was already being victimized with parental alienation by his WW and her family and the steps he took were to prevent his vilification by them and his WW's attempt, with her family's support, to simply replace OP with POSOM in the daughter's lives.

Most judges are not stupid....they may grill him that it was a mistake of judgement and to never do any such thing again...but with the evidence that his WW was indeed bringing her own kids around her POSOM, most are not going to hold it against him in a final settlement on custody.


----------



## giddiot

Dyokemm said:


> " @*morituri*: You know the funny thing, Judges could care less about infidenlity in a custody hearing but they won't with involving them in a confrontation. CPS will eat him up."
> 
> Uhh...no....bringing your children around your AP can indeed be viewed very negatively by the courts, though the extent varies from state to state.
> 
> I read a thread awhile ago on another site where a BS received a favorable judgement because their WS was purposely bringing the POS AP around the kids and encouraging them to bond...the judge accepted the BS's complaint that it was a campaign of parental alienation against them and ordered it stopped immediately....was not very happy with the WS at all.
> 
> And OP can always claim that he was already being victimized with parental alienation by his WW and her family and the steps he took were to prevent his vilification by them and his WW's attempt, with her family's support, to simply replace OP with POSOM in the daughter's lives.
> 
> Most judges are not stupid....they may grill him that it was a mistake of judgement and to never do any such thing again...but with the evidence that his WW was indeed bringing her own kids around her POSOM, most are not going to hold it against him in a final settlement on custody.


Most judges favor the mother over the father, stupid or not. Have you ever been in a custody trial or just read about it.


----------



## 3putt

giddiot said:


> Most judges favor the mother over the father, stupid or not. Have you ever been in a custody trial or just read about it.


That's an unfortunate truth that telling the children will have no bearing on. While I certainly would've done it differently, when you break it down (in the eyes of the law that is) all he's really done is tell the truth.


----------



## Dyokemm

The case I mentioned, as I said, I read about on another site.

And I have seen and advised PLENTY of friends and family in these situations to have a clue about this...not to mention a good friend who is a family law attorney who has discussed these issues in general terms with me before (never about her specific cases of course)....and my sister worker for 3 years in our county CPS office.

So I think I have SOME clue as to the general working of the court system.....helped by the fact that I was a pre-law political science major who now teaches about our court system

I would agree that there is a slight bias in favor of mothers in the courts....but one thing that I have noticed is that the court system aims as much as possible for a 'fair' split in custody....and the judges in the cases I am aware of had little tolerance for crap that involved exposing kids to the POS who was wrecking their family or to any attempts by one parent to alienate the other, ESPECIALLY if it involved trying to shift their loyalties to the new stepdad/stepmom (whether they were an AP or not).

That said.....even when inappropriate actions were engaged in, it was never a 'one and done' situation.

The courts ordered the inappropriate action to be stopped immediately and threatened that a continuation of the action would be viewed as contempt....but I have never seen something like a SINGLE exposure of kids to the AP or an one time incident like OP described being used as the basis for a FINAL custody settlement.

This crap p*sses judges off and they order it stopped....but if it doesn't continue, then it has no impact on the final settlement.

And in this situation, OP handled exposure wrong in bringing the daughter to POSOM's apartment complex....but the judge will not be happy with his WW that her kids had already been brought there and exposed to this POS either.

He or she will undoubtedly tell them both to knock off the shenanigans or else...but I doubt it will effect the final custody outcome at all.

And most importantly from OP's perspective....this whole incident has prevented his worthless, serial cheating, traitor of a WW and her disgusting, enabling family from poisoning his own children against him.

Worth a warning from a judge IMO.


----------



## giddiot

Dyokemm said:


> The case I mentioned, as I said, I read about on another site.
> 
> And I have seen and advised PLENTY of friends and family in these situations to have a clue about this...not to mention a good friend who is a family law attorney who has discussed these issues in general terms with me before (never about her specific cases of course)....and my sister worker for 3 years in our county CPS office.
> 
> So I think I have SOME clue as to the general working of the court system.....helped by the fact that I was a pre-law political science major who now teaches about our court system
> 
> I would agree that there is a slight bias in favor of mothers in the courts....but one thing that I have noticed is that the court system aims as much as possible for a 'fair' split in custody....and the judges in the cases I am aware of had little tolerance for crap that involved exposing kids to the POS who was wrecking their family or to any attempts by one parent to alienate the other, ESPECIALLY if it involved trying to shift their loyalties to the new stepdad/stepmom (whether they were an AP or not).
> 
> That said.....even when inappropriate actions were engaged in, it was never a 'one and done' situation.
> 
> The courts ordered the inappropriate action to be stopped immediately and threatened that a continuation of the action would be viewed as contempt....but I have never seen something like a SINGLE exposure of kids to the AP or an one time incident like OP described being used as the basis for a FINAL custody settlement.
> 
> This crap p*sses judges off and they order it stopped....but if it doesn't continue, then it has no impact on the final settlement.
> 
> And in this situation, OP handled exposure wrong in bringing the daughter to POSOM's apartment complex....but the judge will not be happy with his WW that her kids had already been brought there and exposed to this POS either.
> 
> He or she will undoubtedly tell them both to knock off the shenanigans or else...but I doubt it will effect the final custody outcome at all.
> 
> And most importantly from OP's perspective....this whole incident has prevented his worthless, serial cheating, traitor of a WW and her disgusting, enabling family from poisoning his own children against him.
> 
> Worth a warning from a judge IMO.



I will tell you that I have been through a 4 year custody trial that nearly bankrupted my son and myself. CPS was involved and was totally incompetent, and what you find that most judges dont even read the documentation provided they just take CPS's word for it. 

To be a CPS investigator requires you to take a six week course in most states. Most are just concerned citizens that have no psychological training whatsoever, they want to do something good. 

Unfortunately where we had our case was a rural county mind you, the CPS investigator had 10 cases due in one week. How can a person much less an untrained professional handle 10 very important cases in one week. 

Our CPS investigator was admonished by the court after our lawyer got through with her and removed from the case. She didn't pass the qualification of any of the 10 critical points of law that have to be addressed. The system is this way everywhere and the judges would rather take their recommendations than have to write them up themselves.

Infidelity was involved in our case, the judge said it is not pertinent to child custody. Anything that harms a child physically or psychologically is. I think he damaged these children with what he did. I do not think their mother damaged them taking them with to pick up something at the OM's house. Now if she screwed the guy in front of them that would be a different matter.


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## sparrow555

Hurr, what was your plan had OM been in the house? fight in front of the kid?

Looks like your wife called him when you left and he ran off, since his car was still there in the parking lot.

have your revenge. just be smart about how you get it.


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## weightlifter

This varies from state to state and even in some cases county to county.


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## morituri

giddiot said:


> I will tell you that I have been through a 4 year custody trial that nearly bankrupted my son and myself. CPS was involved and was totally incompetent, and what you find that most judges dont even read the documentation provided they just take CPS's word for it.
> 
> To be a CPS investigator requires you to take a six week course in most states. Most are just concerned citizens that have no psychological training whatsoever, they want to do something good.
> 
> Unfortunately where we had our case was a rural county mind you, the CPS investigator had 10 cases due in one week. How can a person much less an untrained professional handle 10 very important cases in one week.
> 
> Our CPS investigator was admonished by the court after our lawyer got through with her and removed from the case. She didn't pass the qualification of any of the 10 critical points of law that have to be addressed. The system is this way everywhere and the judges would rather take their recommendations than have to write them up themselves.


Did you file for a State Administrative Hearing? You may be interested in the following info from *FightCPS: Child Protective Services-CPS-False Accusations*



> You can use the telephone to contact the hearings department of your state department of human services to file a request for a hearing. Another thing you can do is go to the front desk of the welfare office. Ask them for a hearing request form, and use it to file for a CPS administrative hearing. Welfare departments are part of social services, and they are used to getting hearing requests. Call the state department of social services in your State capital and ask for the fair hearings division.
> 
> When you request an administrative hearing, an employee of the state department of human services known as an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) will review your case. This means that injustices being done to you and your children on the county level will become known to the state department of human services, and all employee decisions will have to be reviewed.
> 
> The CPS caseworker will be called into a hearings room to meet with you and the ALJ. Most likely social services legal staff will have a position paper ready to give to you and the ALJ representing their side of the controversy. They might even have their lawyer there.
> 
> Be prepared with your own set of legal documents representing and proving your side of the case.
> 
> When you go to an administrative hearing you can appoint someone else to represent you. That other person could be an activist, an advocate, a lawyer, or anyone you feel is most competent. Or you can represent yourself.
> 
> Look through your state’s social services administrative hearing laws or regulations. You have a right to request that these laws or regulations be sent to you in preparation for your hearing. Or, go to your local county law library for help finding them.





> Infidelity was involved in our case, the judge said it is not pertinent to child custody. Anything that harms a child physically or psychologically is. I think he damaged these children with what he did. I do not think their mother damaged them taking them with to pick up something at the OM's house. Now if she screwed the guy in front of them that would be a different matter.


We're getting a little bit too ahead of ourselves here with rampant speculation. Depending on where the OP resides, your scenario may/may not play out as you described. Still I agree with you that exposing the children in such fashion is hurtful and he needs to step up and take them to therapy.

In any case, I wish you all the best with your situation and pray that it gets resolved to your satisfaction. Take care.


----------



## Dyokemm

Sorry you had such a bad experience with the system in your area....as with any other institutions involving humans there is often incompetency and stupidity far too often.

But your story is just that...a SINGLE story....and while my second hand experience with family and friends is also anecdotal, the insights from my attorney friend and sister, who have been involved with hundreds of cases, as well as my own studies on the workings of the civil court system which I must teach my students, tells me that your unfortunate experience is not the norm.

Which we should be thankful for because it sounds like the CPS and court in your area completely blew it IMO...I'm sorry for you.

On the other points, I'm afraid you and I will have to disagree.

I think ANY involvement of kids with a POS AP is utterly disgusting and reprehensible....and when kids finally discover the truth, and they will eventually as my family background proves, they will hate the WS all the more for it being hidden and lied about for so long.

IMO....THAT is psychological abuse.....being called a liar by your grandfather when you finally realize what the truth is, like OP's daughter was....THAT is psychological abuse.

Giving someone the truth is NEVER abusive IMO....making them live with lies and dishonesty is.

I simply do not see what OP did as damaging (though you and others will disagree)....to me he simply gave them the truth.

What I see as damaging to the kids is discovering that their own mother is a disgusting cheat who betrayed their family and destroyed the home they lived in...AND topped this off by actually bringing her own kids to meet the absolute POS who had helped her to do this as if he was some nice guy/friend of their family.


----------



## Decorum

Hurr said:


> How I wish there is a script. The whole idea of TAM, why all of us are here and feel fulfilled that way is for that very same reason. There is no script. We create our own script. With touch-ups here and there, the script ultimately gets done. So folks, let's be slow to condemn. Those who have been following me know that there are two sticking issues that I have been grumbling with....
> 
> 1. Most of you advise me to NOT leave. That she should be the one to leave. I kept asking, how do you ensure that she is the one who leaves? Short of throwing her out how do you get her to be the one to leave?
> 
> 2. I told you that she would draw the kids into this ugly scenario. I warned that she would draw them into the chaos. So unless we now want to bury our heads in the sand, the kids were going to get involved anyway. The question is this, was I going to wait for her to get them involved in her own way, or were I going to seize the situation and get them involved in my own way.
> 
> I wish we could somehow explain these issues.


Hurr,
I have never seen a confrontation done that way either, but I have seen dads lose their childrens love and trust because of a poisonous Wayward Spouse.

Providence did not allow your youngest to go nor for you to even see the om (not to mention knocking at the neighbors door by your daughters insistence and getting the full story), that mitigates it quite a bit, and only you can guess the damage your STBX would have cause if you allowed her to control the dialogue.

I think too often the kids are not told enough, in an age appropriate manner of course.

I am not going to second guess you here, this may have an acceptable ending considering, so don't beat yourself up and yes make sure the kids get counseling.

Stay out in front of this. I really wish you and your angles well!
Take care.


----------



## giddiot

3putt said:


> That's an unfortunate truth that telling the children will have no bearing on. While I certainly would've done it differently, when you break it down (in the eyes of the law that is) all he's really done is tell the truth.



I do not think anything is wrong with telling the children but under different circumstances. To confront their mother in front of them, to take one of them with him to confront the Om. That's crazy. And it matters in a custody hearing.

If you want to see how crazy it can get go read the /wrists thread.


----------



## the guy

I found it interesting that even your oldest daughter was even in denial when it came to facing the fact that mommy really does have a boyfriend. I mean for the past 3-4 years this kid has witnessed more then she cares to face.

I imagine the tears were all about exactly this....mommy does have a boyfriend and it's wrong and no daddy and mommy are history.....I figure the youngest didn't get when the boyfriend first came around and still didn't get it when it all came out now.

Think about.... during the confrontation the oldest knew what was coming before the wife did....

The way I see it is the kid was a lot smarter then mommy thought. Look at this way folks, this kid saw and heard a lot more then she cared to, and when it all came down yesterday she knew what was going down.

Figure it this way...if the kid was smart enough to tell her old man to slow the phuck down before he wrecks the car she is smart enough to know mommy has a boyfriend.

Right out off the gate the eldest started crying...a wise kid watching her family unit completely fall apart...all cuz mommy had a boy friend when she shouldn't of had!


It makes me wonder how often these two little girls sat in the dark ...in their beds'''' talking amongst them selves...about mommies boy friend and should we tell daddy....


----------



## the guy

giddiot said:


> I do not think anything is wrong with telling the children but under different circumstances. To confront their mother in front of them, to take one of them with him to confront the Om. That's crazy. And it matters in a custody hearing.
> 
> If you want to see how crazy it can get go read the /wrists thread.


The way I see it OP just saved his relationship with his eldest.

In what I mean is I believe OP knows his old lady and if he thinks she will use the kids against him ....well I believe him.

At least the oldest knows the truth.

You know how kids love their music, well I have a feeling this experience is going give her a different out look on some of the crap she listens too.

This kid may never forget the pain she saw in her father.....and that's a bad thing?


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## 3putt

giddiot said:


> I do not think anything is wrong with telling the children but under different circumstances. To confront their mother in front of them, to take one of them with him to confront the Om. That's crazy. And it matters in a custody hearing.
> 
> If you want to see how crazy it can get go read the /wrists thread.


I've already agreed I would've done it differently. But what's done is done, so I don't see the sense in beating him over the head with it. Let's see how it plays out.

And, yes, I'm familiar with /wrist's thread. I've been around a while. But you would have to admit that's an extreme situation. Certainly not what we usually see around here.


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## SecondTime'Round

Since we're really only supposed to be addressing the OP, this is for him....a much better idea would have been to schedule a therapy session with a counselor and your kids, without your wife's knowledge, to explain what was going on. What's done is done, but wow, I hope they are OK.


----------



## the guy

3putt said:


> Certainly not what we usually see around here.


What are you talking about...remember the guy that brought his kids to the OM's apartment? the WW was also there and wouldn't answer the door (I bealieve he was able to talk to her on the phone) and if I remember correctly the FIL ans BIL also showed up and wanted to speak with the WW.

It was the thread were the OM was even more controlling then the BH. It was a really short thread ( they all were back then ) but I think the OM ended up slapping the WW around.


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## giddiot

One last thing OP an I will stop. It's a vision of what could have happened and the discussion would be a lot different. You knock on the OM door he is there opens the door unprepared and you barge in and he shoots you as an intruder in front of your daughter. Most killings are domestic violence.


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## the guy

SecondTime'Round said:


> Since we're really only supposed to be addressing the OP, .


My bad!

Sorry my foreign friend...I won't let it happen again.

BTW you *will* get through this bull crap...we all do/did....


----------



## 3putt

the guy said:


> What are you talking about...remember the guy that brought his kids to the OM's apartment? the WW was also there and wouldn't answer the door (I bealieve he was able to talk to her on the phone) and if I remember correctly the FIL ans BIL also showed up and wanted to speak with the WW.
> 
> It was the thread were the OM was even more controlling then the BH. It was a really short thread ( they all were back then ) but I think the OM ended up slapping the WW around.


Oh, no doubt we've seen some weird crap around here, but I was thinking more in terms of the WW's brain injury contributions. That's something we don't see everyday.


----------



## the guy

I was thinking about your friend that snitch out your old lady. that poor guy was most likely beating him self up about this and getting involved or not.

Got to give him credit ...even though it took three years he came up with the 'ol "did you guys move" line.

It took him long enough but at least he did the right thing in the end.


----------



## arbitrator

* Hurr: I might have done it in private with the girls but I think that what you did came from your heart! In any event, the girls know and they also know what a lying cheating tramp that their mother truly is.

Get yourself a very good family attorney who is an absolute piranha in the court room. As the girls father, you should file to be the primary conservator or guardian of your daughters. After all, you are a far better father to these girls on your worst day than your lying cheating wife is to them on her very best day!

Also get your daughters some help with counseling, as what they have been through has been highly traumatic!

I wish you well, my friend!*


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## Remains

It's a t***l. Flowery story. Too crazy to be real. And he's not back to chat for 'advice' because he doesn't need it. Total bullsh1t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Remains said:


> It's a t***l. Flowery story. Too crazy to be real. And he's not back to chat for 'advice' because he doesn't need it. Total bullsh1t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Lets leave that up to the professionals to decide {in a stern Ted White voice}


----------



## Hurr

Remains said:


> It's a t***l. Flowery story. Too crazy to be real. And he's not back to chat for 'advice' because he doesn't need it. Total bullsh1t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The guy,

Hiding behind the thick walls of social media, you have chosen to insult both me and my character in a most callous manner. Each of us has a life and this post is about mine. if you don't like me or what have evolved of me, walk away. But throwing aspersions on my character is very wrong. You don't know me. You have really offended me. 

For your information, I don't come here for advise as you try to imply. I have come here to share, discuss and seek counsel from many great men and women who have undergone similar experiences before me. This is my darkest hour. It's not an experience one would ever wish on anyone. For you to think it's an opportune moment for you to throw insults at me is just so unfair. God give you grace.


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## Hurr

Hurr said:


> The guy,
> 
> Hiding behind the thick walls of social media, you have chosen to insult both me and my character in a most callous manner. Each of us has a life and this post is about mine. if you don't like me or what have evolved of me, walk away. But throwing aspersions on my character is very wrong. You don't know me. You have really offended me.
> 
> For your information, I don't come here for advise as you try to imply. I have come here to share, discuss and seek counsel from many great men and women who have undergone similar experiences before me. This is my darkest hour. It's not an experience one would ever wish on anyone. For you to think it's an opportune moment for you to throw insults at me is just so unfair. God give you grace.


Sorry meant to address this to "Remains". 

Very sorry to you "the guy".


----------



## OldWolf57

Hurr, you say your daughter gave you the directions EXACTLY how to get there AND, where to park.
What does that tell you about how many times they have been there ??
I would bet the umbrella story was used every time, but mommy and pos almost always found some reason to leave the room for a few. 
You did what you did, it's done, and I say it couldn't have worked out better.
She called and warned him you know. that's why he didn't come to the door.

Here's the thing. It seems this guy is wrapped around her little finger. He stays away from those around him to keep them out of his an her affair.
Three years, and you never had a clue.


----------



## turnera

Hurr said:


> The guy,
> 
> Hiding behind the thick walls of social media, you have chosen to insult both me and my character in a most callous manner. Each of us has a life and this post is about mine. if you don't like me or what have evolved of me, walk away. But throwing aspersions on my character is very wrong. You don't know me. You have really offended me.
> 
> For your information, I don't come here for advise as you try to imply. I have come here to share, discuss and seek counsel from many great men and women who have undergone similar experiences before me. This is my darkest hour. It's not an experience one would ever wish on anyone. For you to think it's an opportune moment for you to throw insults at me is just so unfair. God give you grace.


Hurr, you probably don't do forums much, so I'll explain what's going on. Sometimes people will come on here and make up a story, just to get their jollies, watching us respond to a story that gets more and more outrageously unbelievable. So taking your kid there was unrealistic enough (just happened to know the way there), but then having the additionally coincidentally ex-employee being next door, and inviting you in...you can see how people would be skeptical.

So when we run across a story like yours, some people cry foul. Trust me, it's nothing personal about YOU, but about the wildly improbable story. Unfortunately, you have to live it. So try not to take such comments personally.


----------



## turnera

Locke.Stratos said:


> You should stay in the house and if there's no possible way to have her leave then you both stay in the house.
> 
> You shouldn't be away from your children, especially since you feel she'll be on a campaign to align them against you, and also you shouldn't have to make alternative living arrangements that'll cost you financially because she was/is unfaithful.
> 
> You'll just have to deal with having to live in the same home until you are able to make other arrangements later on.


This.

People have lived in worse situations. And if you're intending to try to get ANY custody of the girls, for sure don't move out until you have your lawyer's blessing. He/she will know the laws - and the judges - in your area, and whether moving out will affect your changes.


----------



## morituri

Hurr said:


> Sorry meant to address this to "Remains".
> 
> Very sorry to you "the guy".


Hurr, if you feel you are being harassed or berated by another member, you can report her/him by going down and to the left corner of the offending post, clicking the grey triangle (report) and submit a report to the moderators.


----------



## weightlifter

turnera said:


> This.
> 
> People have lived in worse situations. And if you're intending to try to get ANY custody of the girls, for sure don't move out until you have your lawyer's blessing. He/she will know the laws - and the judges - in your area, and whether moving out will affect your changes.


Turn. You are involved in a doozy on LS. I'm just waiting for Darth Vader, Chuck Norris, and some zombies.
Op sorry.
Btw. Do what a lawyer says. "Abandonment" is short in some states and very long in others.


----------



## OldWolf57

H, don't think that we advise everyone not to move out. We don't. There have been some BS here who we felt was so beat down, that removing themselves was best just to help them save themselves mentally and emotionally.
You don't seem to be that bad off. So staying until you consult a lawyer is best now. Along with the others reasons I gave in a earlier post.


----------



## sparrow555

weightlifter said:


> Turn. You are involved in a doozy on LS. I'm just waiting for Darth Vader, Chuck Norris, and some zombies.
> Op sorry.



What does this mean ?


----------



## weightlifter

There is a thread on another site with every cliche in the world. Including cheating, police, embezzlement, prison gangs, and now the OM committed suicide.
Turners is on that one.
Sorry op. Ipend tj.


----------



## Hurr

OldWolf57 said:


> Hurr, you say your daughter gave you the directions EXACTLY how to get there AND, where to park.
> What does that tell you about how many times they have been there ??
> I would bet the umbrella story was used every time, but mommy and pos almost always found some reason to leave the room for a few.
> You did what you did, it's done, and I say it couldn't have worked out better.
> She called and warned him you know. that's why he didn't come to the door.
> 
> Here's the thing. It seems this guy is wrapped around her little finger. He stays away from those around him to keep them out of his an her affair.
> Three years, and you never had a clue.


It's likely they have been there several times. In the particular incident of the umbrella, my daughter told me that they were made to go to the kids playground as both the OM and my W went indoors. 

Yes, I now think the OM is wrapped around her fingers. Why do I think so? The guy is around 27. She is 36. 9years difference. But why is this guy's life so private? I mean no friends. No relatives who come calling. Cleans own house and clothes. Something doesn't add up here.


----------



## Hurr

The issue of who keeps the house or moves out has been cleared. We all move. Each their own way. The thing is, she can't afford to pay the rents I have been paying for this house. Neither do I need this big house alone. So this is th last month we are paying for this house. We have mutually agreed on the various things like finances and kids. Tomorrow we go formalize this with our lawyer. She has agreed that we can all sign up a joint document detailing everything and get it filed in court. She is not keen on court engagements at all. Afterall there is no significant difference of opinion on how to move forward. We both will have equal access to our kids. We both will get our new homes with enough facilities to cater for the girls. For the foreseeable future the kids continue attending same schools. 

We have also agreed that in the starting week, the children start counseling. We should finalize tomorrow on a good counsellor among the ones we are looking at. 

Now concerning W, she has refused to divulge anything about the OM. She is in total denial. She doesn't know how much I know, and she thinks it's not much. Her attitude sucks. She thinks this thing will just go away. It's hard to understand how this woman can be so ignorant. To her, I did very wrong to tell her best friend about our situation. She thinks it will be spread around as gossip and that worries her quite a bit. Today I told her that I will need to take marital bed with me, but her reply as shocking. She thought that we should be discussing how and when to buy a new one as the existing is due for change. Talk of someone in denial.

Tomorrow after we visit the lawyers I want go look for a house for myself. I will probably be looking for a 2 bedroom house. The spare bedroom will be for my girls. The irony about all this is that I have been working at building us a permanent family suburban home and we were due to commence the construction this September. Now everything must change. Yes, the project will go on, but clearly not for this W. How sad?


----------



## the guy

I think you are looking to much into it....this POS is wrapped around your old ladies finger cuz he has been getting laid..

it's that simple....it's all about the sex! nothing more and nothing less......hell he.s 27 and doesn't have to do a thing to get sex except be home...no dates no flowers.....nothing.

Also just like your old lady has a second life this POS has a another life that doesn't involve having a married women as a girl friend. So just cuz you all don't see his family and friend doesn't mean he has them. Lets face one doesn't go around bragging about having a girl friend that is married. This affair was very low key from the POS side of things.

As far as you and your wife go...love is like a fart, if you have to force it, it's probably shyt.


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## turnera

Getting laid and using YOUR money to pay for his stuff.


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## Decorum

You have your head on right Hurr. Moving on will reduce the pain and damage for you and your children. Let her keep her delusion until everything is signed.
Maybe do a background check on the POSOM

I really wish you and your family well.
Take care.


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## SecondTime'Round

Hurr said:


> It's likely they have been there several times. In the particular incident of the umbrella, my daughter told me that they were made to go to the kids playground as both the OM and my W went indoors.
> 
> Yes, I now think the OM is wrapped around her fingers. Why do I think so? The guy is around 27. She is 36. 9years difference. But why is this guy's life so private? I mean no friends. No relatives who come calling. *Cleans own house and clothes. Something doesn't add up here.*


Huh? Why wouldn't a 27 year old man be capable of cleaning his own house and clothes?


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## Mr The Other

SecondTime'Round said:


> Huh? Why wouldn't a 27 year old man be capable of cleaning his own house and clothes?


It is a very peculiar statement, I agree.


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## the guy

Remains said:


> It's a t***l. Flowery story. Too crazy to be real. And he's not back to chat for 'advice' because he doesn't need it. Total bullsh1t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not my post baby [in a Austin Powers voice]


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## Decorum

*Maybe do a background check on the POSOM.*

What kind of person is she bringing your kids around?


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## bandit.45

You seem to be taking all his pretty well Hurr.


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## Hurr

Cleaning own clothes and house. In the country where I am labour is very cheap. I mean this chap is a senior fella where he works. He probably earns $12,000 a year minimum but he could be making up to $30,000. Now, a day worker will cost $5 here at most. Nobody that I know of, a bachelor to boot, would do these chores for themselves. This guy is hiding something and I don't know what it is. Clearly he doesn't want anyone in his house. It sounds a bit eerie, but something just doesn't add up. Also remember that his next door neighbor for over 3 years has never entered this OM house. Yet the OM has been to my friends's house severally. The fact that he is having an affair with my W doesn't explain the level of secrecy and privacy he has surrounded himself with. I know that my W goes there about ones a week. So the OM ought to be living normally the rest of the days but keeping everyone else off on the days of her visit. Also I remember my friend telling me that this chap never discusses anything private with them. Not about his family, friends nothing. Weird.


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## Hurr

Yes Bandit.45, you are right. This is why.

In the last 3 years I have been working on a huge investment project that has been both financially and energy draining. In fact I moved my family nearer this project just so that I could keep a close eye on put it up right. It meant moving my kids school and our family relocating to a less privileged neighborhood. It separated us from friends and loved ones but I told myself that at least my immediate family, my W and kids wee going to be there for me. But, alas, this never happened. Whereas we physically moved, my W refused to be there for me in any way except physically. No moral support, no shoulder to lean on, nobody to bounce ideas off, no confidant, no conversationist, nothing. If you have ever undertaken such a gruelling project, you will attest to how much one needs approval from the person who matters most, the spouse. I have spent many days feeling lonely, confused, lost and unloved. And I have often wondered how someone can be so uncaring towards their life partner. How can someone be so indifferent. She won't care what loans I have or whether am repaying them. She has been so peripheral. And I always wondered why is she that way?

Now that I have discovered why, everything that I have been wondering and disturbed about finally falls into place. My W checked pit a long time ago. I think she met this OM mid or early 2012. That makes it exactly 3 years now, just about the time I started this project. No wonder she has been so "absent" in my life. So now that I have discovered, a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. The jigsaw puzzle is complete. The pattern is clear. Am relieved.


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## SecondTime'Round

Hurr said:


> Cleaning own clothes and house. In the country where I am labour is very cheap. I mean this chap is a senior fella where he works. He probably earns $12,000 a year minimum but he could be making up to $30,000. Now, a day worker will cost $5 here at most. Nobody that I know of, a bachelor to boot, would do these chores for themselves. This guy is hiding something and I don't know what it is. Clearly he doesn't want anyone in his house. It sounds a bit eerie, but something just doesn't add up. Also remember that his next door neighbor for over 3 years has never entered this OM house. Yet the OM has been to my friends's house severally. The fact that he is having an affair with my W doesn't explain the level of secrecy and privacy he has surrounded himself with. I know that my W goes there about ones a week. So the OM ought to be living normally the rest of the days but keeping everyone else off on the days of her visit. Also I remember my friend telling me that this chap never discusses anything private with them. Not about his family, friends nothing. Weird.


Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining. For some reason I thought you were British. Your dollar amount for what he earns is not translating well because in the U.S. that would be poverty level range.

Maybe his home is some sort of BDSM lair!


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## Hurr

Things are unfolding fast.

After my last night's post, she availed herself to talk about everything, or at least hat she was willing to address. The OM is an accountant. These two are in love, according to my W. What she described to me is like they are having another marriage, only that theirs is more real than mine. She calls his house her "safe heaven". The way she described how they hang out there together, it's like a new couple in thrills of new found love. They watch movies a lot and they like the same movies. They do business together like some form of partnership. They discuss everything and they share finances. And she cooks in his house and basically do everything together like a normal couple. Asked if they have had sex, her answer is very straightforward. She says they are a normal couple. When I ask her how their sex life is, she goes on a wildly circumlocutory argument about how am a sexual pervert, how theirs is deeper than sex, how to me everything is about sex, how the other man was patient for over one year, how deep their R is etc. 

My W is deeply in love with the OM. And she has no remorse whatsoever. When I ask her whether she is not concerned that I found her out, or how I got to know about them, her answer is very strange. She says they were bound to be found out anyway. In my thinking she is seeing a future with the OM. And it increasingly looks like she is the one leading their relationship. She decides when to see the OM. She seems to have put the OM in a trance. She is very indifferent about her having to move out and our marriage ending. Infact she sounds so ready, it is so unnerving. Her main concern is the worry this is causing the OM, the distress and all. She argues that he is a very fine human being who deserves to be kept out of all this mess and she feels like she should protect him. 

The lawyer says we wait for the draft agreement today by email and after reading and discussing it with W we go tomorrow ready to sign up. I think my W is eager, even relieved.


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## bandit.45

Let her go.


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## Dyokemm

"Let her go."

Absolutely.

And tell her since her new life is with this POS loser is so important to her, she should let everything from the past go....meaning give you full custody of your children.

After all, they are so unimportant to her and such a hindrance that she sends them away to the playground when she has them at POS's place so she can go enjoy her new, more satisfying life with scumbag.

And make sure to expose both her AND POSOM....he is so distressed because, while he wants to poach another man's WW, he doesn't want to be known as that kind of POS.

Don't let it happen...make them both own what they have done publicly.


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## cgiles

*I think my W is eager, even relieved.*

Use it as your advantage.

But I advice you to read this : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/66063-before-you-decide-leave-read-my-story.html

You must prepare yourself in case this happens (her coming back to you), in other words, cutting away all love you can have for her, and move on emotionally. 
Because I doubt a social isolated young man of 27 is ready to play daddy.

I advice you to adopt the 180lists since now, and so to begin to take distance with her.

Set your nights you will spend with your kids, and hers, and stick to it, or she will use you as babysitter as she goes to her "safe heaven"

I don't think he hides something, except himself.


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## SecondTime'Round

Wow. So, did you ask her why his "safe haven" is so secretive? What's in there? 

I thought of you yesterday while watching an episode of Hoarders. Maybe he's a hoarder.


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## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Let her go.


And send her parents, siblings, pastor, and best friends this thread.

AFTER you get her to sign over the kids so she can go live her fantasy.


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## weightlifter

Use her love fog against her to YOUR advantage.


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## happyman64

Not only let her go but use her fog against her.

Get the most amicable terms you can for yourself and the kids.

Get her out of the house and into his ASAP with the least friction possible.

Did she plan on taking the kids with her?

I highly doubt her BF wants to be a full time Dad.

Solidify the D before your wife wakes up.

HM


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## KanDo

Sign as quickly as you can and get out!


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## Lostinthought61

Hurr,

for kicks after the D is final, i would sue the other man, for medley with your marriage.


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## sparrow555

Hurr said:


> Things are unfolding fast.
> 
> After my last night's post, she availed herself to talk about everything, or at least hat she was willing to address. The OM is an accountant. These two are in love, according to my W. What she described to me is like they are having another marriage, only that theirs is more real than mine. She calls his house her "safe heaven". The way she described how they hang out there together, it's like a new couple in thrills of new found love. They watch movies a lot and they like the same movies. They do business together like some form of partnership. They discuss everything and they share finances. And she cooks in his house and basically do everything together like a normal couple. Asked if they have had sex, her answer is very straightforward. She says they are a normal couple. When I ask her how their sex life is, she goes on a wildly circumlocutory argument about how am a sexual pervert, how theirs is deeper than sex, how to me everything is about sex, how the other man was patient for over one year, how deep their R is etc.
> 
> My W is deeply in love with the OM. And she has no remorse whatsoever. When I ask her whether she is not concerned that I found her out, or how I got to know about them, her answer is very strange. She says they were bound to be found out anyway. In my thinking she is seeing a future with the OM. And it increasingly looks like she is the one leading their relationship. She decides when to see the OM. She seems to have put the OM in a trance. She is very indifferent about her having to move out and our marriage ending. Infact she sounds so ready, it is so unnerving. Her main concern is the worry this is causing the OM, the distress and all. She argues that he is a very fine human being who deserves to be kept out of all this mess and she feels like she should protect him.
> 
> The lawyer says we wait for the draft agreement today by email and after reading and discussing it with W we go tomorrow ready to sign up. I think my W is eager, even relieved.



Ouch!!!
I am not sure how I would have reacted in such a situation...


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## the guy

I find it interesting how your old lady sees this affair. I bet the OM has a totaly different perspective.
If you think about it she never once mentioned leaving you or getting pressure from the OM to leave you and be with him.

No.

The way I see it the OM has it made and the reason he is stressed out, is now this women is going to be his problem.

12 pages ago this POS got feed and got sex and at the end of the night he was rid of her and by next week he could deal with her for a day, get the meal, have the sex and then she is history until next week.

My point is your wife is going to have an eye opener when your old lady is now available a lot more then once a week and the POS wants to keep it status quo..

I mean if I was using some married chick for sex and was happy with the once a week booty call for the last 3 years...it would stress the hell out of me knowing that was about to change for the worse.


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## Decorum

the guy said:


> I find it interesting how your old lady interrupts this affair. I bet the Om has a totaly different perspective.
> If you think about it she never once mentioned leaving you or getting pressure from the OM to leave you and be with him.
> 
> No.
> 
> The way I see it the OM has it made and the reason he is stressed out, is now this women is going to be his problem.
> 
> 12 pages ago this POS got feed and got sex and at the end of the night he was rid of her and by next week he could deal with her for a day, get the meal, have the sex and then she is history until next week.
> 
> My point is your wife is going to have an eye opener when your old lady is now available a lot more then once a week and the POS wants to keep it status quo..
> 
> I mean if I was using some married chick for sex and was happy with the once a week booty call for the last 3 years...it would stress the hell out of me knowing that was about to change for the worse.


 Absolutely, she thinks she has found her soul mate, but when the skid marks in the underwear show up, it will dawn on them both that they are soil mates.

I bet the Om is not looking forward to having your wife 24/7 or at least he will live to regret it, and she will get bored with being his mother.


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## the guy

One more thing...

It's not ok for your wife and her boyfriend to leave your kids alone at a community park. You need to seriously reconsider the amount of custody you give your wife, or at the very least rethink the visitation your wife has with the kids when she is with her boyfriend!

Did you also know that the mothers boyfriend has the highest percentage of molesting the child....higher then a family member, a teacher, priest, or even a close family friend.


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## the guy

Decorum said:


> Absolutely, she thinks she has found her soul mate, but when the skid marks in the underwear show up, it will dawn on them both that they are soil mates.
> 
> I bet the Om is not looking forward to having your wife 24/7 or at least he will live to regret it, and she will get bored with being his mother.


That's the thing...you don't screw around behind your spouses back for 3 years....some one in the affair is "pro marriage" > and doesn't want the 24/7 commitment.

Usually if two soul mates meet both parties involved will want the old marriage to end with in weeks if not months, take the steps to be together for ever and ever. 
I mean this A went on for 3 years and now that it's put in the open the wife is throwing around the word soul mate and the OM is stressed....go figure:grin2:


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## the guy

With your old lady spitting out all this "soulmate" crap I regress and wonder who has who "wrapped around" whos finger?

This POS had a sweet little booty call until this trick's old man found out!

I have to admit the phuckers is patient...or is he? I bet the OM is after the girls!


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## Dyokemm

"The way I see it the OM has it made and the reason he is stressed out, is now this women is going to be his problem."

the guy,

I think this is spot on.....plus the added stress that for so private a person he is probably upset because he expects OP to broadcast his sh*tty behavior far and wide...and he wants no part of being publicly known as a W poaching POS.

I think OP should DEFINITELY make this fear come true.

Hurr,

Make this scumbag OWN what he has done to everyone he knows.


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## Hurr

What exactly am I dealing with.

Today I decided to comb through the house for tell tale signs of what has been going on (someone in this thread mentioned that we all become some kind of detectives when we catch our spouses cheating). I don't know what I expected to find but then just check anyway.

Deep in a rarely used clothesline cabinet I find a paper bag. It had bottles. 2 bottles of Magnum (is it whisky) and one big bottle of unopened 5th street wine. Both bottles of Magnum were almost empty, one like 80% and the other 70% consumed. Another bottle was stacked somewhere else and had not been opened. Now both these brands of alcohol are distributed by the OM company.

Someone please tell me, what am I dealing with here? Why were these partially open and some unopened bottles hidden deep in a cabinet full of clothes that we rarely use? Gosh.....


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## turnera

Because they were partying one night with the stuff he brought when you were gone, you came home early, he ran out the back door and she jammed that stuff in a closet to hide it, and forgot about it?


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## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> Because they were partying one night with the stuff he brought when you were gone, you came home early, he ran out the back door and she jammed that stuff in a closet to hide it, and forgot about it?


Ouch. Just ouch.


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## bandit.45

Hurr said:


> What exactly am I dealing with.
> 
> Today I decided to comb through the house for tell tale signs of what has been going on (someone in this thread mentioned that we all become some kind of detectives when we catch our spouses cheating). I don't know what I expected to find but then just check anyway.
> 
> Deep in a rarely used clothesline cabinet I find a paper bag. It had bottles. 2 bottles of Magnum (is it whisky) and one big bottle of unopened 5th street wine. Both bottles of Magnum were almost empty, one like 80% and the other 70% consumed. Another bottle was stacked somewhere else and had not been opened. Now both these brands of alcohol are distributed by the OM company.
> 
> Someone please tell me, what am I dealing with here? Why were these partially open and some unopened bottles hidden deep in a cabinet full of clothes that we rarely use? Gosh.....




:laugh:


It's her stash mate.

She's a closet alcoholic. She has probably been hiding it from you for years. 

I used to have stashes too.... way back when I was drinking heavily. Yeah, no surprise there. 

Just one more reason to eject her. :thumbup:


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## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> :laugh:
> 
> 
> It's her stash mate.
> 
> She's a closet alcoholic. She has probably been hiding it from you for years.
> 
> I used to have stashes too.... way back when I was drinking heavily. Yeah, no surprise there.
> 
> Just one more reason to eject her. :thumbup:


This. One bottle visible that poured one drink a night, that way the level dropped slowly for appearances.

The stashes, however, were constantly and covertly being replenished.


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## Dyokemm

"It's her stash mate."

Yep...I think this is right.

And it shows another reason for your WW's 'soulmate' crap with this POS.

She uses him for free alcohol.

One of my good friends from years ago (we lost touch over a decade ago) used to work as a regional sales manager for an alcohol distributor....He ALWAYS had 'free' bottles of the products his company sold too.

This would definitely be an alcoholic's ideal mate.

POSOM undoubtedly sees your WW as a cheap and easy lay for him....he gives her free samples and in return gets sex any time he wants it.

But I would bet money he will want nothing to do with living with your WW if she is an alcoholic.

His lack of social connections and almost obsession level of privacy about his personal life and living space....heck, even his career choice of accountant to some extent....make me think he is probably an OCD type personality.

And I can't think of a more nightmare partner for an OCD type than an alcoholic.

This is probably another big reason why POS is upset about the A blowing up....in addition to possibly being exposed publicly for the scumbag he is, POS is facing the real possibility that his alcoholic booty call is now going to want to live and be with him full time.

Let him have her....he deserves to deal full time with the mess he has created.

What a turd.


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## Borntohang

Hurr, you ok?


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