# Again? How much do I believe?



## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

I have been married for 15 years, have 2 teenage kids, dog, house...
About 4 years ago my wife got her nursing degree and began working at a hospital. She was a stay at home mom. I knew it would be a different experience for her and was excited for this new phase. Her circle of friends grew and she began to lose contact with old friends. I have always been very trusting and allowed her to move freely in this new space. All this eventually led to an affair with a co-worker of hers. 
I had the feeling some of her stories weren't adding up. She was bringing her phone into the bathroom, having girls night sleepovers... all the warning signs. I checked the cell phone records and called the number and sure enough. Guy. 
After I found out, I confronted her and she confessed. After much thought, we agreed to work it out. During the next couple months I caught her with 2nd cell phone, busted her driving to a company lunch together and was finally DONE. I used the word divorce. She told so many lies it amazed me and I don't believe she told me everything.
That seemed to move the situation. She stopped the suspicious behavior, I made changes to the routine to make her happy. We seemed to have turned a corner. 
Over the last few months I felt something wasn't right. Then yesterday she suddenly said she was going to study for a test to stay certified. Said her friends kids were gone so she was going over there. I checked the cell records and a strange number was there just before she left. I called the number this morning and asked who it was... same guy.
Of course she is saying she was studying and in those text messages she was telling him to go away.
I know I don't believe her. I guess bottom line is, does it matter what she says? Should I even listen to her or just move to divorce.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Expose the affair to family and friends if the om has a gf or wife let her know asap! And file for divorce.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Everyone here is going to say its obvious that she isn't going to stop and you should just file for divorce.

I know that's easier said than done, you have to do what is going to make you happy. In all honesty....until you put your foot down and close the door on her she's going to keep doing it. Tell her you don't believe her and will be talking to a lawyer, if she whimpers and whines about it...let her. Don't buckle.....Be strong for as long as it takes and see what actions she takes. Who cares what she says...its what she does that speaks volumes!


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

For me, my wife has ONE CHANCE. Even that I'm unsure of. If I found out she was back with OM in ANY capacity, I'd kick her ass out the door so fast she'd probably leave a chunk of it in the doorway. 

Fool me once...

Toss her ass out my friend.


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

Funny you said 'Fool me once...'
I texted her the exact same thing, including the ...


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Just watch out for YOU. Your emotional and mental well being are priority number one. Do you really believe you can trust her again? I am working at R with my WW. And I don't know the answer to that question. But if she even farts in the wrong direction, I'll bolt like a Vegan in a butcher shop.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Make sure to separate finances and cancel any joint credit cards. If she goes out again all night pack her stuff in black garbage bags and leave them by the front door. I think she will get the message you are serious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I would suggest that you get tested for STD's and contact an attorney now to understand your options. You gave her the gift of forgiveness and she threw it back in your face. If the roles were reversed would she have so forgiving and accepting as you?

You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. She has no respect for you and considers you a fool that she can easily manipulate. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She is gone, gone, gone my friend. 

It takes a lot of brass to buy a burner phone and look you in the eyes and tell lie after lie. Since you've kept taking her back time after time - she has completely dismissed you as a husband. 

Oh, she wants you at the house. She wants the comfort of her home, her kids full time, her standard of living in tact. But whatever she saw in you way back when - she now sees in spades with the other guy. 

She will tell you whatever you WANT to hear. And face it, you do WANT, if not NEED to hear the words. But, it's her actions that speak the truth. Can you see it? Everyone else does. 

I'll bet there's a whole group of her co-workers who are egging her on and praising her new-found 'freedom'. Unless she gives up that job, and shows a willingness to rejoin the marriage she will continue to be gone, gone, gone. Even as she sleeps in your bed most nights.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It depends how much you want her in your life, I suppose.

What about the children?

Is the OM married, too? Can you expose him?

Complain to the hospital?

What kind of divorce would you go for?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Go see a lawyer to find out what your right and responsibilities are in case of divorce. The first visit should be free - but even if you have to pay it will be worth it. 

After you know your legal rights do this:

Tell your wife you will file for divorce unless she commits to the marriage. She can do what she wants but there will be consequences. If she wants to commit then she must:

1. Write down in a spiral notebook all that she has done - everything. No exceptions - any omission is a sign of non-commitment and ground for proceeding with divorce. 

2. She takes and pays for a polygraph to ensure that what she has written is true. The whole truth. No omissions.

3. She writes a No-contact letter to the OM (or OMs) that she shows you for your approval. The letter just says that she harmed your marriage - he should not contact her ever again by any means. Any violation will be shown to you and you may seek legal action if he does. YOU mail the note or send the email.

4. She deletes all secret email accts - but shows them to you first. She deletes all means of contact with EVERYONE but family. No exceptions. She also gives you passwords to all remaining accts and phone. 

5. She tells you who else knew or supported her affairs. 

6. She quits her job and finds another immediately. No excuses. 

7. She arranges for IC - you need IC too. 

8. You might want to schedule MC with a counselor experienced with infidelity in marriage. Don't just go to any MC - some are actually toxic to marriages. 

Can you do this?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Why do you want a lying Nurse in your life. Divorce her this week.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It could be that the affair never ended. That's my guess, it never really was completely over.

We see this so much, I post this at least once a week. Cheaters follow a pretty predictable script. They cheat, they lie, they get caught, they deny, they tell you only what you can actually prove, their story doesn't make sense, as you poke holes in it, a little more truth comes out a little at a time. They are in a fantasy love affair that involves only fun and sex and good times - no chores, no troubled finances, no screaming kids, no cleaning the house. They have the butterflies in the stomach, everything the other man says is funny or brilliant, while everything you say is petty or annoying.

The main characteristic of the cheater is lying. If their lips are moving ... Assume everything she tells you is a lie, unless it is backed up by verifiable proof or supported by her actions.

In order to find out where you stand, you will have to do a little investigating.

Check the phone bill. Look at how often they text. Even though they work together, it is likely they text each other often during the day. This could be useful info in breaking up the affair. They also probably text each other first thing every morning and last thing every night.

Buy a couple voice-activated recorders and some heavy-duty velcro. Put one in the house where she is likely to talk on the phone when you are not around and the other under the front seat of her car.

Assume the following is true unless you find out definitively otherwise:

1. Your wife and other man have told each other they are soul mates and destined to be together. They regularly have sex at work, on breaks, in the car at lunch.

2. Your wife and other man would be together already if not for their kids and their jobs and their reputations. Maybe other man is not ready to leave his wife yet and is stringing your wife along.

3. They are making plans to be together. They have pledged "not to give up on each other" or some such. They are in contact every single day - the first thing they do each morning and the last thing they do each night is contact each other.

When you confronted your wife originally about this situation, you did not take the steps needed to break up the affair. She SAID she wanted to work on the marriage. What she did was continue the affair. THAT is what we are talking about when we say watch the actions, not the words. By the way, your trying to be a better husband, changing the routine, had zero effect on her and her feelings toward other man. It did not cause her to continue the affair and nor did it cause her to end it. No matter how you acted, you only were a bystander as she fantasized about her perfect life with other man.

Your marriage MAY be salvageable. It may not.

Your story is not unique. Your wife is not unique. You are not unique. Your situation is very common. There always are a few variables, but nothing significantly different. Cheaters follow a very predictable script. Betrayed spouses also follow the script. The plot outline could take one of a few courses, like bad TV movies. You and your wife both are following the script to a T.

Your wife is "fence-sitting" and "eating cake." She "loves you but is not 'in love' with you." She is "in love" with the other man. This will run its course on its own. In about a year, or two, maybe at longest three. That's how long it takes to get over the "in love" feeling, which eventually turns into the kind of love you and your wife have for each other, the more mature settled kind of love, not the exciting, not-knowing-what's-going-to-happen-next, butterfly-in-the-stomach love. After the "in love" feeling wears off, your wife may stay with the other man out of habit for a year or a few more. Then she will contact you via Facebook, remembering only the good times, and want to reunite with you. If she doesn't meet anyone else in between. So, if you follow your current course, you might have your wife back in 7-10 years or so.

Your wife wants the safety of you at home and the excitement of her new lover. She's not going to give up either unless you force her to (or unless the other man gets hit by a bus, struck by lightning, finds someone else, or otherwise dumps her).

You can wait until hell freezes over and it still won't be enough time for your wife to decide to stay with you. The only way you are going to save your marriage is to end the affair. That is the first step and no guarantee that you can save your marriage.

Your wife is "in love" with the other man, which means she is infatuated, gets butterflies in the stomach, like a teenager with a crush. Her "affair" with the other man is pure fantasy-land; none of the harsh realities of life intrudes. In her affair with him, she does not have to pick up his dirty underwear off the floor, do laundry, cook, clean, or deal with any of life's unpleasantness. With him, there is only I love you's, sex, and talk of living in a perfect fantasy world together. Of course, no such perfect fantasy world awaits your wife, and somewhere deep down she knows that, but a big part of her wants to believe in that fantasy, just like you want to believe that she will come to her senses on her own. She won't.

Right now, she likes the fact that she can still have her other man knowing you will be there as a backup in case it falls through. She is sitting on the fence eating cake.

There is a reason she hasn't left you for him - what is it? The kids? The job? Other man's hesitance to leave his wife and family? If she is in love with him and they are soulmates destined to be together, why hasn't she left you for him yet?

Your first step is to talk to your wife. Get her alone without the kids around. Tell her that you love her and are sorry for whatever legitimate gripes she has against you, that you will improve yourself and improve your marriage, that you feel your marriage will be better than ever if you try to reconcile. Next, tell her that although you feel this way, you cannot go on this way any longer with her cheating on you. Give her a very short time to decide. An hour is not too short; at most, give her one day to decide. Tell her no decision means she chooses other man. Tell her you took vows together, you've been married many years, have had children together, and have been through life's ups and downs together and you don't plan on waiting any longer as her "backup plan" while she continues her affair with the other man.

If your wife does choose to commit to the marriage, she agrees to give up all contact with the other man now and forever, handwrite a no contact letter to the other man, quit her job, tell you the full truth of her affair, and give you complete transparency of all her communication devices and accounts. If she can't agree to this, file for divorce. Don't threaten it, just do it.

Divorce is a long process. You can always stop it if your wife comes to her senses. If not, you save yourself months and months of pain and unhappiness, which ends in a bad result anyway.

If your wife does not want to meet your conditions and work on the marriage, start moving on with your life. Stop engaging with her as your wife, and start engaging with her as your soon-to-be-ex-wife. Be pleasant, but not romantic. Talk to her only as needed to discuss the divorce settlement. If you are financing her affair in any way, stop. Definitely don't pay for any means she uses to cheat on you.

Also, if she doesn't choose to re-commit to the marriage right away, expose the affair to the other man's family and friends. Expose the affair to you and your wife's family and friends. Let them know the other man's name and ask for their support in saving your family and your marriage. Don't tell your wife you are going to do this, just do it. Expose the affair to their human resources, let the hospital know that they have been using company time to carry on their texting affair (assuming the phone bills show this is the case).

If you want to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. You cannot "nice" your wife out of her affair.

The longer you allow this to go on, the more respect your wife is losing for you. She sees a weak-willed man who is not willing to stand up for himself. When she sees the other man, she sees a strong man who goes after what he wants and doesn't stop until he gets it. Other man may be belittling you to your wife every chance he gets. And if so she likely is listening to it and not disputing it. If the situation were reversed, do you think she would tolerate it?


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

zoemats said:


> I have been married for 15 years, have 2 teenage kids, dog, house...
> About 4 years ago my wife got her nursing degree and began working at a hospital. She was a stay at home mom. I knew it would be a different experience for her and was excited for this new phase. Her circle of friends grew and she began to lose contact with old friends. I have always been very trusting and allowed her to move freely in this new space. All this eventually led to an affair with a co-worker of hers.
> I had the feeling some of her stories weren't adding up. She was bringing her phone into the bathroom, having girls night sleepovers... all the warning signs. I checked the cell phone records and called the number and sure enough. Guy.
> After I found out, I confronted her and she confessed. After much thought, we agreed to work it out. During the next couple months I caught her with 2nd cell phone, busted her driving to a company lunch together and was finally DONE. I used the word divorce. She told so many lies it amazed me and I don't believe she told me everything.
> ...


Trust me...DO NOT believe a single word she tells you unless you can verify it yourself...


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Here is another point of view, somewhat similar:

_I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them. _


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You cannot have her work at the same hospital as her affair partner (AP). She must change jobs. It may mean giving up her other friends at the hospital, but that is a good thing for your marraige as they probably are better friends with the AP than with you and are thus toxic friends to your marraige. She may not like it, but that is the price that she must pay for her cheating. Do not let her blame you for this demand because, had she not cheated, there would be no such demand; it is all on her. There is a big time shortage of nurses so changing jobs is a real option. 

She must decide, you and the marraige or the AP and the job. Truth be told changing jobs is a common thing that people usually do many times in there lives, while marraige is suppose to be the lifetime commitment. Lets face it. If she got a job offer from another employer with a big pay raise, she would think about taking it. Are you and the marriage not worth more than such a raise? If she does not pick you and the marriage, then she is not committed enough to you to be your wife long term. 

She may try to call your bluff so be ready to see an attorney and to file and mean it. If she later wants to really commit to you, and you decide to take her back, you can always stop the divorce. Good luck to you. You do not deserve this.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

zoemats said:


> During the next couple months I caught her with 2nd cell phone, busted her driving to a company lunch together and was finally DONE.* I used the word divorce. *She told so many lies it amazed me and I don't believe she told me everything.
> That *seemed *to move the situation. She stopped the suspicious behavior, I made changes to the routine to make her happy. We seemed to have turned a corner.
> Over the last few months I felt something wasn't right. Then yesterday she suddenly said she was going to study for a test to stay certified. Said her friends kids were gone so she was going over there. I checked the cell records and a strange number was there just before she left.* I called the number this morning and asked who it was... same guy.*
> Of course she is saying she was studying and in those text messages she was telling him to go away.


She's lying, she restarted the affair, this asuming she ever ended it instead of improved at hiding it... only last day she relaxed and got lazy with the excuses.
Ther's no way to stop an EA-PA when you work with OM. No way. Even less when toxic friends are enabling and covering for them.
No matter how, It's a full false R, she went underground.

Sorry man. She's gone. She doesn't give a sh!t about you anymore.
This time don't tell a word, talk to a lawyer, yesterday, find out where you stand, start the divorce.
Ans start detaching from her, start implementing, living the 180. Stop engaging with her except for the day to day necesitties.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

So sorry you're here. Read this and let us know if you're up for it. Complete nuclear exposure is your best bet to save your marriage. You can still walk if you so choose afterwards, but I would start here.



MelodyLane from Marriage Builders said:


> [size:14pt]*Exposure 101 *[/size]
> 
> Exposure is simply your most powerful weapon against an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure can be ruinous. Exposure is no guarantee, but it is your best bet at killing the affair and making it possible to save your marriage. YES, we know your spouse will be furious, but the goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all cost. Your marriage can survive his/her temporary anger; it cannot survive an ongoing affair. Read up on why exposure is so effective: When Should an Affair Be Exposed?
> 
> ...


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

Thank you all for reading and the replies... Wife is home now, denying everything...really did study, text was him trying to get back together, she was telling him no... feel like i'm being played...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

zoemats said:


> Thank you all for reading and the replies... Wife is home now, denying everything...really did study, text was him trying to get back together, she was telling him no... feel like i'm being played...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask her to take a polygraph then if she has nothing to hide just sayin.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

> Go see a lawyer to find out what your right and responsibilities are in case of divorce. The first visit should be free - but even if you have to pay it will be worth it.
> 
> After you know your legal rights do this:
> 
> ...


Do the steps above. I guarantee you she won't do, even step 1 and certainly not step 2. That's all the proof you need to know she's a lying manipulator. Listen to her excuses for why she won't do it. I'll start them for her:

- you don't trust me
- you really just want a divorce
- most of this is your own fault - so don't try to blame me

wanna bet?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

zoemats said:


> text was him trying to get back together


 Since from the time that she first met him until today, she has always been married to and lived with you, getting back together with her thus really means that he asked her for sex. That is the thing about affairs. It is the knowledge that someone else has a relationship with your spouse where asking your spouse for sex is a reasonable question to them. Not really helpful, but explains why you are pissed and explains why she needs to change jobs.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

zoemats said:


> text was him trying to get back together, she was telling him no... feel like i'm being played...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you read the text yourself?

My guess is........NO


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> It could be that the affair never ended. That's my guess, it never really was completely over.


This!!!!

They follow a script. Re-read Will's post about 100 times.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You might be getting played.

Listen to Will Kane and the collective.

Just get a few VAR's.

Place one in the car.
Place one or two in the house.
If you have acomputer she uses place one there.

I would hide one in her bag if you are comfortable with that.

You could also load a recording app on her phone. I do not recommend that if you do not want to hear what might be really going on.

The choice is yours.

But if you want to know what is really going on you have to take action.

HM64


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

vi_bride and happyman, you are right about about Will's post. Thanks for the re direction. Thanks again Will, all the folks here are amazing but your post was spot on. 
I told her last night I wanted a divorce. No drama no anger. She responded by crying and saying she won't give up. But the key in my mind is I still don't believe her. There is no way to see deleted emails or text to verify her story and my gut says she's lying. My only thought is to contact the other guy and get something closer to the truth from him.
Honestly I am scared as hell about divorce. Impact on kids, likely losing house, being alone... Right now there seems like no other way. I guess tonight I start sleeping in spare room and explaining to kids why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Don't be scared of being alone...you are worth more than how you are being treated.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

zoemats said:


> vi_bride and happyman, you are right about about Will's post. Thanks for the re direction. Thanks again Will, all the folks here are amazing but your post was spot on.
> I told her last night I wanted a divorce. No drama no anger. She responded by crying and saying she won't give up. But the key in my mind is I still don't believe her. There is no way to see deleted emails or text to verify her story and my gut says she's lying. My only thought is to contact the other guy and get something closer to the truth from him.
> Honestly I am scared as hell about divorce. Impact on kids, likely losing house, being alone... Right now there seems like no other way. I guess tonight I start sleeping in spare room and explaining to kids why.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Contacting the OM in my opinion is not a good idea. Typically they will lie, but there are others here who have gotten the answers they were seeking.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

zoemats said:


> vi_bride and happyman, you are right about about Will's post. Thanks for the re direction. Thanks again Will, all the folks here are amazing but your post was spot on.
> I told her last night I wanted a divorce. No drama no anger. She responded by crying and saying she won't give up. But the key in my mind is I still don't believe her. There is no way to see deleted emails or text to verify her story and my gut says she's lying. *My only thought is to contact the other guy and get something closer to the truth from him.*
> Honestly I am scared as hell about divorce. Impact on kids, likely losing house, being alone... Right now there seems like no other way. I guess tonight I start sleeping in spare room and explaining to kids why.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't do this. One, he has no incentive or reason to tell you the truth, if anything. He's not going to be any more honest than your wife has been. Two, if he's having an affair with your wife, and I'm assuming he knows she's married, he obviously couldn't give a crap about you or your marriage. Three, it just comes off looking weak which will get back to your wife and embolden her deviant behavior (women in this situation will feed off any percieved "weakness" in their husbands/SO).

Other than that it looks like you've got the right idea. Stick to your guns and file. It doesn't mean you have to actually go through with the divorce but it let's her know you're dead serious and will help wake her up out of the fog. Right now it sounds like she's still in the fog (not to mention her affair) despite the crying. If she's really serious about you and your marriage she'll offer to do some heavy lifting to reconcile (ie: quitting that job, No Contact letter to OM, full transparency, etc).

And Will said it best, "You can't "nice" your wife out of an affair" and "To save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it". But looks like you get that part too.

Oh and I don't know if you mentioned it or not but if this other guy has a wife/girlfriend, you need to find out who she is and let her know what the deal is. But have proof to give her if you do.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Let her move into the spare bedroom she is the one leaving the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

zoemats said:


> I guess tonight I start sleeping in spare room and explaining to kids why.


No, She does. She cheated, she gets the consequences.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

zoemats said:


> My only thought is to contact the other guy and get something closer to the truth from him.


There is only one reason to ever contact the OM: to demand satisfaction. Well, not only is chivalry dead, it's downright illegal. In the present legal environment, the only thing contacting the OM does for you is make you look like a big poossy, to both WW and OM. He'll let her know you contacted him. Understand what I'm saying? You can contact him, just don't contact him for any reason that's not been made illegal.

Illegal retribution aside, the person you should contact is OMW. With proof. Ideally video.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Let her move into the spare bedroom she is the one leaving the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Dont you leave the house or give up the bedroom. She is the one that stepped out!


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

You are all 100% right. Dumb to contact other guy, she sleeps in other room.
I can't say it enough, this site, board and people here are amazing. This is restoring my faith in the internet and people in general.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

this is exactly what she is hoping for:

Honestly I am scared as hell about divorce. Impact on kids, likely losing house, being alone...


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

kenmoore14217 said:


> this is exactly what she is hoping for:
> 
> Honestly I am scared as hell about divorce. Impact on kids, likely losing house, being alone...


Ugh ya that is one of the more annoying aspects of R. It's hard to determine if the WS is afraid of losing their spouse or the lifestyle and comfort of home that they've been accustomed to. I imagine it can be both but more often than not it seems to be just the latter.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Find out if this pos om is married and let his wife or gf know.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Don't listen to what any poster here has to say. Why bother right? How could they all know or understand your wife? How could they understand how she operates? How could they understand that she loves you and how much you love her?

What everyone here understands is how cheaters operate. Deception.

If you wish, go look around and read threads of how so many BS (betrayed spouses) come on here looking for help with the same script for them and for their WS (wayward spouses). 

Be smart and know that cheaters all act the same. 

They know its wrong, deep down inside they do but they can't feel that its wrong because chemistry affects their logic. Dopamine, seratonin, oxytocin practically gives them OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and they have convinced themselves for justification and believe in their own self-created false fantasy of love, excitement and thrill blame shifting from them onto their BS (betrayed spouse).


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

If you're telling her you're going to divorce her, you're going to have to go through with it. Otherwise she'll call your bluff everytime and you'll just become a doormat.

3 TIMES!!! Come on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

ubercoolpanda said:


> If you're telling her you're going to divorce her, you're going to have to go through with it. Otherwise she'll call your bluff everytime and you'll just become a doormat.
> 
> 3 TIMES!!! Come on!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya that's one thing you need to keep in mind. Don't make threats or give ultimatums that you're not prepared to back up. If you do this and don't follow through, eventually she's just going to realize that she can be with him and keep you around as the fall back guy no matter what you threaten her with. Set a boundry, line in the sand, and if she crosses either follow through with the consequences.

If you say you're going to file for divorce, file for divorce. If you say you want her to move out in 3 weeks, make sure she moves out in 3 weeks. Etc and so forth.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

zoemats said:


> But the key in my mind is I still don't believe her. There is no way to see deleted emails or text to verify her story and my gut says she's lying.


 When you last caught her cheating, did you make it clear about demanding full transparency which would include telling you about all contact with the affair partner (AP), giving you all passwords, and not deleting any emails or texts from or to anyone until you have had the option to view them? If the answer is yes, then her lack of transparency requires that you take action. If the answer is no, then demanding full transparency and that she change jobs, could still be an option if you still want to try to stay in the marriage (not saying that you should).


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

zoemats - you have been here before with your WW. 

What is any different about her behavior this time than the last couple of times you caught her? 

NOTHING. 

She is a cheater. She will follow the same script. I even highly doubt she stopped the first time you caught her. She is learning there are no consequences for her actions and doesn't feel you are going to follow through with anything. 

Know how I know? My ex was a serial cheater. He even told me that he didn't think there would be any consequences for his actions and that my threats never mean anything. So you better believe your wife is thinking the same things. She thinks she can pull the wool over your eyes and you will always be her plan B and $$$ pot.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Zoe,

If she wants to try and turn you around, do as others have suggested....Polygraph her azz!

This will give you a full accounting of what she did with whom and when

You can make an informed decision after you have all the facts


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

zoemats said:


> Thank you all for reading and the replies... Wife is home now, denying everything...really did study, text was him trying to get back together, she was telling him no... feel like i'm being played...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask her to show you the texts. There is absolutely no reason to hide or delete a text where she tells former AP to ****** off, right?


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

You all are correct, that is why i'm doing my best to not get emotional, just trying to get distance right now. 
When I caught her before, we agreed to all the things mentioned above. She even threw it back at me once"I know you check my phone". So that hyper diligence faded, until the other day when I really felt something wasnt right. the deleted text and email really are unbelievable, but as of now she is sticking to story that she deleted them because she was afraid I would be mad or hurt if she showed them.
It's because I really tried to do all the things above that I am so confused, shocked, numb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

zoemats said:


> You all are correct, that is why i'm doing my best to not get emotional, just trying to get distance right now.
> When I caught her before, we agreed to all the things mentioned above. She even threw it back at me once"I know you check my phone". So that hyper diligence faded, until the other day when *I really felt something wasnt right. the deleted text and email really are unbelievable, but as of now she is sticking to story that she deleted them because she was afraid I would be mad or hurt if she showed them.*
> It's because I really tried to do all the things above that I am so confused, shocked, numb.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was told the same thing as to why my ex was deleting the chat logs. He knew I would be upset talking to another girl.

I asked what they were talking about that I would be so upset about. If things were on the up and up like he said, there would be nothing to be upset about...

He never had an answer for that ever. Just threw it back in my face I was spying on him...and this was 5 yrs into R.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

zoemats said:


> You all are correct, that is why i'm doing my best to not get emotional, just trying to get distance right now.
> When I caught her before, we agreed to all the things mentioned above. She even threw it back at me once"I know you check my phone". So that hyper diligence faded, until the other day when I really felt something wasnt right. the deleted text and email really are unbelievable, but as of now she is sticking to story that she deleted them because she was afraid I would be mad or hurt if she showed them.
> It's because I really tried to do all the things above that I am so confused, shocked, numb.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheaters lie lie lie lie. You can't believe what she tells you. You keep giving her chances and opportunities that she keeps throwing in your face because she's faced absolutely no consequences for her actions. She's just going to keep lying and decieving you because you are not holding her accountable.

Sorry you're going through all this but you're among friends here. A lot of ppl know exactly how you feel and what you're doing with. Everything you're feeling is completely (sp?) normal.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

zoemats said:


> Thank you all for reading and the replies... Wife is home now, denying everything...really did study, text was him trying to get back together, she was telling him no... feel like i'm being played...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WW's lie.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

zoemats said:


> You all are correct, that is why i'm doing my best to not get emotional, just trying to get distance right now.
> When I caught her before, we agreed to all the things mentioned above. She even threw it back at me once"I know you check my phone". So that hyper diligence faded, until the other day when I really felt something wasnt right. the deleted text and email really are unbelievable, but as of now she is sticking to story that she deleted them because she was afraid I would be mad or hurt if she showed them.
> It's because I really tried to do all the things above that I am so confused, shocked, numb.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Go with your gut feeling. She is lying to you.

She knew you checked the phone so she was deleting all evidence. Not because she was afraid that you would be "mad or hurt", but because she did not want you to know the truth.

As others have said - if she still works around this POSOM, then she is still in contact with him.

Time to get out. You can not trust her any longer.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

zoemats said:


> You all are correct, that is why i'm doing my best to not get emotional, just trying to get distance right now.
> When I caught her before, we agreed to all the things mentioned above. She even threw it back at me once"I know you check my phone". So that hyper diligence faded, until the other day when I really felt something wasnt right. the deleted text and email really are unbelievable, but as of now she is sticking to story that she deleted them because she was afraid I would be mad or hurt if she showed them.
> It's because I really tried to do all the things above that I am so confused, shocked, numb.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again WW's lie.

You want to end this affair then you must do many things.

Order the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. While waiting for the book do the following.

Verify what your WW is doing. Place a VAR in the house and WW car. Install a key logger on WW PC. Monitor phone bills. Real time GPS on WW car.

As you gather info do not confront. Get strategy from us. Never reveal how you got your info because WW will then no how to avoid that method of detection.

This affair has not eneded. Patience evidence will come in fast.

Once you find out the OM's name go to his FB page then copy and paste all of his contact list.

Same for WW.

Once you have all that info saved. It is time to expose WW's affair fully.

Exposure prevents the AP's from denying any longer what they are doing is wrong. Thus killing the affair.

Do not warn WW that you will expose or threaten to expose because she will warn OM and they will togther to paint you as a crazy H doing damage control to counter you getting the truth out to stop your exposure from being effective.

Send out FB exposures spaced out because if you flood FB with messeages FB soft ware will block you. Allow 2 minutes before you send each message.

Once FB is done then expose WW's parent's and siblings.
Also you must get the OMW in person or on the phone and directly tell WW so OM can not block you.

Then this affair must be exposed at work. Send emails to the CEO, Board of Directors, Head of Human Resources about the WW and OM having a work place affair during work time. Tell them what are they going to do to end this affair.

Tell your kids that married people do not have BF/GF and go on dates with them. Mom has a BF and is going on dates with OM (tell them OM's name). What mom is doing is known as an affair. This is an age appropriate explanation for all kids.

Do not fear exposure. Once a WW finds out she will threaten you, she will say I was going to end the affair but not now. Let WW vent, do not answer but ignore and change the subject.

There is nothing to fear because what is the worse that WW can do to you? WW is already banging the OM. She can't top that.

Do not waste time. Do not skip any of these steps. Do not do any part of the way. If you want to kill the affair.

Do not worry once you do this there will be more for you to do.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Go with your gut feeling. She is lying to you.
> 
> *She knew you checked the phone so she was deleting all evidence.* Not because she was afraid that you would be "mad or hurt", but because she did not want you to know the truth.
> 
> ...




You gave her chances, she become smarter in hiding the A each time. You caught her this time by luck, next time it may take another five yrs for you to caught her by then she may have had sex with a dozen men.

She never faced any consequences for cheating then why should she stop her fun, excitement and sex with OM. Why should she stop when you are very forgiving? Why should she stop when she dont have any respect and consider you as an easy to cuckold man?

This is your chance to be a real man and stand for your self respect and dignity, if you dont do this now dont worry you will get a lot of chances as times goes on.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry you are here. It does not look like you exposed the A, Did you have her write a no contact letter? Did she agree to full disclosure? Did you two get checked for STD's? Are you both in MC?

I think you missed some big items here my friend. If she wants to R what is she doing sleeping in another room


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

You are correct that I didn't expose her. Didn't want to have the world look at her different if she just made one mistake. We did get checked for std. We did agree to full disclosure. I actually got two copies of After theAffair, one for each to read, and followed most of the advice on letters, lists etc...
She wasn't in other room until now. Most things were normal until yesterday when she got some texts then had to go 'study'for a test. I got suspicious checked cell logs and called number, guy answered phone and it was same guy from before. She denies meeting him, blah blah...
Should I expose her now? What about kids (teenagers)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

Also, I don't really know the guy, never met him.they don't work together anymore. So i'm not sure how to expose him...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You know his ph no. do a reverse-lookup Or use a find people site. You know his whole name right?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

zoemats said:


> Also, I don't really know the guy, never met him.they don't work together anymore. So i'm not sure how to expose him...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her you want his name and address and employer. Now. If she trys to stonewall for him, pull the plug.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

zoemats said:


> You are correct that I didn't expose her. Didn't want to have the world look at her different if she just made one mistake. We did get checked for std. We did agree to full disclosure. I actually got two copies of After theAffair, one for each to read, and followed most of the advice on letters, lists etc...
> She wasn't in other room until now. *Most things were normal until yesterday when she got some texts then had to go 'study'for a test. I got suspicious checked cell logs and called number, guy answered phone and it was same guy from before. She denies meeting him, blah blah...*
> Should I expose her now? What about kids (teenagers)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you know she is lying. She got a call, deleted it, then coincidentally left the house to study. Tell her that this story is too hard for you to believe, too many coincidences - the call, not telling you, deleting it, then leaving the house. Tell her that because of all the cheating and lying she did in the past, how deceptive she was in the past, that you cannot believe her unless she can prove it. Ask her if she would be willing to take a polygraph in order to prove to you that she is telling the truth. Tell her that deleting the text and not telling you about it were two acts of dishonesty, and you must assume the worst. She was able to cause this situation by her dishonesty, now she should be willing to make it right by proving she is telling the truth. She should take the polygraph.

No matter what, you should expose the affair to other man's wife. The past affair and the current situation. Look on the Internet, hire a private investigator if you have to, to find out how to contact her. Don't tell your wife anything about this.

Buy a couple of voice-activated recorders and some heavy-duty velcro. Secure one under the front seat of her car and another in the house in a spot where she is likely to talk to him when you are not around.

Keep the kids out of it. Don't lie to them. Never lie to them. If they find out and ask you, tell them the truth. But you should not involve them in your marital problems. Tell them you are having a fight, having problems, that it is between you and her, and that it's not something you want to discuss with them. Do not demonize your wife to them, even if she deserves it. Her cheating hurt the kids, too, but she cheated on you; she cheated because she has her own inner problems or lack of character, because she lacks morals, not because she doesn't love her children.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Tell her you want his name and address and employer. Now. If she trys to stonewall for him, pull the plug.


I like this approach a lot. 

BUT

you have to be prepared to ACTUALLY PULL THE PLUG.

The approach is spot on - but you need to tighten you baalls, stiffen your spine, and act with determination and resolve. You can't half-ass this. Can't try to "logic" her.

Straight out demand - or else. 

Can you do that?


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## zoemats (Jan 21, 2013)

Again, countless thanks to all the people here.
The guy isn't married,I saw his Facebook page. There is no one to expose him too.
Has anyone done a polygraph? I am sure I could demand one but not sure what there is to gain. I would like to at least know the whole truth but even if she didn't meet him Sunday she still lied about him contacting her.
I did the toughest thing so far and insisted we begin to sleep in separate rooms, starting now. Held firm that divorce is only realistic option left. Lots of crying but still hasn't changed story.
Kids are now seeing the cracks. that is tough too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She has no incentive to deviate from her story. She is commited to it until there is a reason to change.

Insist on a poly. You will be able to tell how truthful she is by her response to the suggestion.

Decline poly = lie about her story
Accept poly..... Possible lie \ possible truth\ possible bluff

When you drive up to the parking lot for the poly a change of mind on her part = lost the bluff OR she may confess. It happens. It depends on good of a poker player she is.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Would it be better to file for D first THEN ask for a Poly after she gets the papers? That way she might feel more pressure to actually do it.

She has to believe that you're serious when it comes to being willing to walk away from this marriage. Otherwise she goes back to holding all the cards. And that's been getting him nowhere except more lies, crocodile tears, and empty promises.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

zoemats said:


> Again, countless thanks to all the people here.
> The guy isn't married,I saw his Facebook page. There is no one to expose him too.
> Has anyone done a polygraph? I am sure I could demand one but not sure what there is to gain. I would like to at least know the whole truth but even if she didn't meet him Sunday she still lied about him contacting her.
> I did the toughest thing so far and insisted we begin to sleep in separate rooms, starting now. Held firm that divorce is only realistic option left. Lots of crying but still hasn't changed story.
> ...


So OM has no friends on FB? No bio info to find who parents are and how to contact them?

Still posting here. Not getting the book Surviving An Affair. Still not exposing. Still only coming here to cry in your beer.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Her explanation and tears will make you want to believe her.

She is lying, though. I would bet the store on it.

It's very hard when you've viewed the love of your life as a confidante and soulmate & now you have to realize that she sees you as an adversary that she has to outfox.

But that's the reality. If that's how she's thinking, what's the point of the marriage?

Stay strong.


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