# disclosure email; reviews please, need pointers



## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you going to expose at work to HR?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

QBall1981: What I'm reading from your post is abominable at best. Her actions speaks far louder than words could ever convey. She's checked out and is happily rubbing it in your face!

Time to do the 180, find an attorney to protect your financial rights and get full custody of your kids, and get to your Dr. to have a test done for the presence of STD's. Also report the activity to her Human Resources Manager or the the Managing Corporate Officer where she works. Strange thing is that the vast majority of those folks do not want negative things about the company getting out ~ it's inherently bad for its potential business!

You deserve far better!


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm not really sure that's the exposure letter to send if you really intend to expose them to people at work. It's very personal, rather than simply fact based and doesn't really focus on how this affair started inappropriately during work for the company. If you really intend to send this to Wifey's HR - I'd focus on that. 

However, I'd really suggest that you talk to a lawyer before exposing to your wife's work, as if she gets fired and can prove that letter is what got her fired, you might be on the hook for even more alimony/child support payments. Not to mention if she could argue you can't prove anything and thus its slander. Seriously - contact a lawyer first.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

It took a few bashings over my own skull to realize there was no snapping my ex out of the fog. It is wasted time and wasted heartache, because going by her actions, she is done.
You have to let that sink in. As terrible as it is for everyone involved. I can that you still hold hope that something "you" do will make a difference in her, despite her present actions. 

It is not everyone's advisement to disclose on TAM.
You NEED to understand the points about how it may count against you in court. A judge would see a letter like that in a "positive" and meaningful light? In the best interests of the children?


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If you want any chance of getting her back exposure is the only way jmo.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The general feeling here on TAM is to expose.

There are kids involved here so you can't just dump and run like S suggests. 

If you look in the newbies stuff in this thread there are standard exposure letters.

Basically stick to the main points, and don't go into evidence.

1. You are writing to inform them that your wife and mother of your children is cheating with X. - name him!

2. X is the half brother of her employer

3. She and X have been using company paid for travel and events to hook up and have their affair.

4. Your wife has attempted to hide the affair, while having moved out to an apartment so that she can continue her affair with X

5 you are writing them to inform them of this situation and are seeking their support to help your marriage and family deal with this.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

QBall_1981 said:


> The problem i have is that OM's baby's momma just died and it's known that STBXW had some family die during this season. They're naturally sympathetic to each other now. I feel like if i don't cite specifics it'll just be dismissed as me being too assumptive and jealous.
> 
> This is why i'm thinking i either need to be specific (will most likely get me in trouble) or not write at all.


You don't need to cite examples, you just need to say they are having sex on the trips.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

It appears I was out of line thinking that the board had varying ideals regarding exposure. Please let us know how the letter goes over in the grand scheme of things, and what effects it has on your situation.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> It appears I was out of line thinking that the board had varying ideals regarding exposure. Please let us know how the letter goes over in the grand scheme of things, and what effects it has on your situation.


The board does and is better for it. I said generally because generally it does, but there are other opinions.

Exposure is done to kill the affair.

Killing the affair help R, for obvious reasons.

Killing the affair can very much help D by removing the support system it gives the WS.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

QBall_1981 said:


> *She's having the affair with the half-brother of the owner.* I want to send it to everyone there.
> 
> Maybe I didn't research disclosure events enough. What am I missing? I didn't see anything in previous posts about legalities, repercussions, or anything else. What should one look like?


*This is a horse of a different color!*

Doing something willy-nilly without legal advise in this arena is not good. Conversely, by "outing" her with the company she works for could ultimately destroy whatever negotiation potential there is, primarily because those folks do not want to be subpoenaed to testify, in that their presence and testimony could bring much unneeded embarrassment to the company and to themselves. It also may aid in diminishing any productivity on their part in the business itself.

Your attorney will know how to use this legally. Rely on them!
Meanwhile, get to an attorney to discuss your options and also have your Dr. check you out. And if you have as much as a scintilla of an STD, have the Dr. document it for court edification!


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> The board does and is better for it. I said generally because generally it does, but there are other opinions.
> 
> Exposure is done to kill the affair.
> 
> ...


I get your point Shag. Save the marriage at all costs. 
Who can say that is not a valiant endeavor?

To say otherwise would appear jaded and full of resentment towards my own situation.

In the divorces that I have been witness of and part of, (family, friends, etc.) not one of them had been effected at all by "exposing" to other people, namely because most already knew it was going on (toxic friends, family) so it was no surprise, and as expected, every single one of the people you expose to take a "I'm not taking sides" standing, that gets you no where. The people having the affairs were in the middle of "reacting" because they got caught, and were doing damage control, and it wasnt something you could expect them to be rational about their marriage decisions during.
I certainly did not have a choice in my marriage, but I am not saying that other marriages cant completely turn around even after terrible circumstances.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

In my opinion I think there is no other option but to expose at work and with both families.

If it was my marriage and my family that was at risk what is there left to lose?

To do nothing has not helped.

To expose is always a gamble but if the marriage is over then at least the BS can say I tried everything.

And though deaths of close loved ones is traumatic it is no excuse to lie or cheat.

So IMo expose.

Keep the letter simple. 

Ask The Count of Monte Cristo for advice on the letter. He exposed that way and I am sure he will give you pointers.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

45 days ago your wife moved into her own apartment.
Who exactly, is left to expose to? 
Everyone that I talked to that knew us both, chose to "not take sides". Most of her friends who were mutual friends, knew about her plans long before I did.

Youre going to look like a vindictive person, and its affiliation with the company may have you become a problem easily gotten rid of, considering who is involved with whom.

Where is your dignity? Who says SHE gets to determine when and if your marriage survives?

An exposure letter is the same thing as throwing a tantrum when you dont get your way. 
The fallout is impossible to imagine, and it could very well cost you your credibility in court. 

I would suggest you make the efforts and plans to pursue a divorce. Get your ducks in a row, (housing, legal, "parenting plans", financial) and if there is a hope for your marriage to R, it will come when you are at a strong place and ready to enter into a new relationship with your WAW. 

Who in the entire history of this board, has ever been Shocked out of the Fog, by an exposure letter?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

When you are emailing to an employer, the letter should bear in mind two relevant laws:

1. *Title VII of the Civil Rights Act *
_A FEDERAL law against sexual harassment which is applicable to any company with 15 employees or more. It reads:

"It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.

Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.

Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer."_ 

and

2. *EEOC Title 29 CHAPTER XIV PART 1604 GUIDELINES ON DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF SEX. *
_Section 1604.11 (d) “With respect to conduct between fellow employees, an employer is responsible for acts of sexual harassment in the workplace where the employer (or its agents or supervisory employees) knows or should have known of the conduct, unless it can show that it took immediate and appropriate corrective action."_ 

As you can see by reading them yourself, these are federal laws relating to sexual harassment in the workplace. Thus for workplace exposure, I suggest a letter like this:

This letter is to formally inform (boss' name and position) and the company, (company name), that unwanted sexual contact has been occurring at the workplace and that company property and/or time may have been used to foster unwanted sexual contact. The unwanted contact is an ongoing workplace affair between (his name) and (her name), and if documentation of their affair is needed, I do have evidence that I can provide. Since Title 29 CHAPTER XIV PART 1604 GUIDELINES ON DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF SEX says that: "_(d) With respect to conduct between fellow employees, an employer is responsible for acts of sexual harassment in the workplace where the employer (or its agents or supervisory employees) knows or should have known of the conduct, unless it can show that it took immediate and appropriate corrective action_" as the spouse of one of the involved parties I am asking that (company) put an end to this classic "hostile work environment" sexual contact. Please use this date as the date the company was notified and knows for a fact of the unwanted sexual harassment. I am not a lawyer but I believe the company needs to know that due to the conduct of these two on work property, the company is at risk and vulnerable to at least two sexual harassment lawsuits. Can you please inform me how you intend to address, and correct this situation? 

Regarding contacting families, etc. I would recommend that you contact your own family (parents and siblings), the unfaithful spouse's parents and siblings, your church or place of worship, some of your co-workers or life-long friends, some of your spouse's co-workers or life-long friends, and the Other Person's spouse and inform them that your wife and OM are having an affair, that it is serious, that the marriage is in trouble, and ask for help. The focus and main concern here is to contact those who may be harmed by the affair, give the facts, and ask them either to support you or talk to your wife and encourage her to do the right thing and return to the marriage. Again you don't necessarily have to include evidence, but since these forks are moreso the folks who do love you both, you may want to include copies of enough to convince them that it's true. Like "here is a snippet of one chat, and there are hundreds." 

Finally you may also want to consider informing your own boss. The reason here is that affairs are devastating, and chances are about 100% that your concentration and productivity may go down considerably. However, if your employer knows why, they'll know that it's temporary and may even be understanding or have some help they can offer.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Half brother of the owner... Owner already knows.

None of the sexual contact was "unwanted". 
"They" may be reprimanded for putting the company in that position, but guess who is easiest to let go of in this situation?

Unless any of you have stood in front of a judge, and realized that it didnt mean a [email protected] thing what you did beforehand, that the judge will determine based upon his immediate perception of the circumstances how your kids' lives will be from that point on, I dont think you should post a response encouraging someone to put their job or their standing in court in jeopardy. Sure, the idea behind an exposure note is based solely on hope, and in this particular situation we see facts that make an exposure letter way late in the situation to have the desired effects, and in fact, may be more detrimental than helpful at this late in the game. I'm glad that people are adamant and secure in their feelings about it, but advising others to do something that has so many unknown and possibly negative consequences is irresponsible.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Shooboomafoo said:


> Half brother of the owner... Owner already knows.
> 
> None of the sexual contact was "unwanted".
> "They" may be reprimanded for putting the company in that position, but guess who is easiest to let go of in this situation?
> ...


A few words:-----

Expose, and kill the affair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> A few words:-----
> 
> Expose, and kill the affair
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A few more:
Expose, and get fired. while they continue working.
Also, have your letter of exposure used against you in court, such that you get 10% of your time with your kids.

Exposing an affair to people that already know,, does nothing.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Sigh! Spend less time fighting us and read the "newbie" thread
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foolish1 (Apr 5, 2013)

I just read your other thread and am thinking you want to reconcile? But I'm not sure. I only sent an exposure letter to family, but my opinion is this is way too long and vindictive, especially if you want to reconcile. I kept it short: "Spouse if having an ongoing affair. Our marriage has been in a bad place for a long time, we've both contributed to putting it there, I want to fix it but can't do that if there's a third person in the picture. Please support husband in making the right decision." You don't need to specify what you did wrong, especially if it's a back handed way to make a snide comment about her (the mood swings thing). And there's way, way too much detail. I really don't think they need to know the specifics, but maybe it's important for workplace exposure, I don't know.

Also, I wouldn't attach the evidence. I would upload it to something like Google Drive and tell them you can provide evidence if needed. Make them ask for it. I think his family would've thought less of me if I would've made it so easy to access all the gory details. No one asked for it, except OWH, of course.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Sorry you feel contentious. I dont. I think your cookie cutter advice is irresponsible and complacent. 
No "Newbie" thread is going to apply to each situation. Did you read the original post?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Qball : to break the affair you need to select your target audience and expose their adultery. Your marriage will not survive while the affair continues . To give yourself the best chance of isolating the waywards you need to expose the OM at work, family and friends. He needs to know he is not secure and his life and if necessary his business will be affected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Qball: Who do you think does not already know about the affair, or has not asked your wife why she moved out over a month ago? Or, seen her with your kids and this OM?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> This letter is to formally inform (boss' name and position) and the company, (company name), that unwanted sexual contact has been occurring at the workplace and that company property and/or time may have been used to foster unwanted sexual contact. The unwanted contact is an ongoing workplace affair between (his name) and (her name), and if documentation of their affair is needed, I do have evidence that I can provide. Since Title 29 CHAPTER XIV PART 1604 GUIDELINES ON DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF SEX says that: "_(d) With respect to conduct between fellow employees, an employer is responsible for acts of sexual harassment in the workplace where the employer (or its agents or supervisory employees) knows or should have known of the conduct, unless it can show that it took immediate and appropriate corrective action_" as the spouse of one of the involved parties I am asking that (company) put an end to this classic "hostile work environment" sexual contact. Please use this date as the date the company was notified and knows for a fact of the unwanted sexual harassment. I am not a lawyer but I believe the company needs to know that due to the conduct of these two on work property, the company is at risk and vulnerable to at least two sexual harassment lawsuits. Can you please inform me how you intend to address, and correct this situation?


One of the key words to remember is "unwanted". If HR investigates and none of the parties will stipulate that the contact was unwanted, there is no violation for sexual harassment. But there could be a violation of a company fraternization or supervisor/subordinate" policy - depending on the company.

That doesn't mean this letter shouldn't be sent to the company anyway, even if there are no such policies. HR will be forced to investigate because of the "unwanted" inference. Even if they find no "unwanted" behavior they'll know that there is that potential. They could possibly take steps to make things more difficult for the cheaters (monitoring/limiting company communications and access, transfers, etc.) At worst, it will be an an embarrassment to be investigated and it won't help their career aspirations.

So, speaking as an HR Manager, I like how you're thinking affaircare.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

And let the lawsuits fly! As an HR Manager, I would think you would be zero'd in to the possibilities, and since those possibilities exist, consider, WHO could sue the other for malicious intent, or defamation?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> And let the lawsuits fly! As an HR Manager, I would think you would be zero'd in to the possibilities, and since those possibilities exist, consider, WHO could sue the other for malicious intent, or defamation?


Not quite sure what you're getting at. If you're talking about the risk for defamation to the OP who sent the exposure letter, I suppose there might be some - though minimal in my opinion. 

But that's between the cheaters and the BS. HR would be "zero'd" in on the sexual harassment angle, not the defamation.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There are various reasons to expose and various effects.

Typically, a workplace exposure is a formal exposure. It sticks to the work-associated issues, such as playing on company time, inappropriate influence of manager on employee, inappropriate favoritism shown to AP in the workplace, etc.

A personal family/friend exposure is not formal. It is a simple expression of fact with an implied or direct plea to help support the family. It can involve more personal detail, but should also be as concise as possible. (People are embarrassed to hear all of your dirty laundry - they want some, of course, but not too much...).

I believe that it is incorrect to claim that because people don't want to be involved that the exposure has had no effect. Quite the contrary. Many WS's really, really hate to be viewed in a negative way by others. This is one of the main reasons for the secrecy and deceit. Having sunlight on the A can create a very uncomfortable environment for the two lovers & I have read many, many threads where it is obvious that that is what happened with exposure.

It also makes it difficult for the AP's to rewrite marital history. It is very typical for a WS to want to keep everything on the down low until after the D. Then he/she tells everyone that the marital issues were organic to the marriage and he/she has now 'found' a new love. Some may say that this rewriting is harmless, but I, for one, believe in some justice, even if it is just the BS getting the benefit of the true story being out there among friends and family.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Im trying to keep the guy from being fired by his employer or sued by his ex wife or STBXW after he sends a letter around exposing their affair.
Especially an affair between the boss's brother and his wife who work there.
It seems to me that anytime theres a nasty going on, corporate wants to silence it as soon as possible.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Ok, fair enough. Will it be better if I say that I have two very close friends who were faced with this issue and I therefore know what happened? Will it be better if I say that I have worked in offices and have seen the fallout from this a number of times? Must it have directly happened to me to have any relevance? I would argue that in cases like this that that is absolutely not the case. This is social behavior & we all have a stake and some knowledge to bring to bear.

It's up to the OP whether he wants to do this or not. The fact that some of the most noted infidelity specialists advise exposure certainly says something, in my opinion. His particular details may not augur well for exposure, but on the other hand they may.

In my opinion, OP's letter is far too personal for a workplace exposure. I would not distribute it at her work. It is perfectly acceptable for a personal letter, although too detailed, in my opinion.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> LOL, are you kidding? What affair partner has not rewritten marital history already? What kinds of reasoning do you think they are offering their families and friends? Even if they look as guilty as can be, they will find a way to shift the blame, and garner support from family and friends.


I am not kidding you. Big surprise there, no?

Yes, most rewrite marital history, and the BS can't do much about that at all.

But - he/she can at the very least get his/her version on record. This may not mean a damn thing to you, but it helps some people.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> "This is social behavior & we all have a stake and some knowledge to bring to bear."
> 
> Except people who disagree with the writing and sending out of an "exposure letter", especially when they may not be aware of the consequences to themselves, during future situations that arise, if his WW is not just throwing herself back at him in true remorse and a desire for real reconciliation.
> I have twelve pages of listings of phone calls my ex made on her cell phone all to the same guy she initially became involved with.
> ...


How is it that an exposure letter to her employer would cause HIM to lose his job? 

And I too live in a no fault state. One where the attorney I spoke to during my H's affair RECOMMENDED that I write an exposure letter with the requirement that it only includes things that I can prove. IOW- watch out for defamation and libel. Its not libel if its TRUE and provable. NO judge is going to hold the fact that he tried to break up his wifes affair against him. NO JUDGE. That doesnt make him insane and he did nothing illegal. Send it to HR and only HR- certified. THAT came DIRECTLY FROM AN ATTORNEY IN A NO FAULT STATE.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> "This is social behavior & we all have a stake and some knowledge to bring to bear."
> 
> Except people who disagree with the writing and sending out of an "exposure letter", especially when they may not be aware of the consequences to themselves, during future situations that arise, if his WW is not just throwing herself back at him in true remorse and a desire for real reconciliation.
> I have twelve pages of listings of phone calls my ex made on her cell phone all to the same guy she initially became involved with.
> ...


Yes, absolutely. I realize that experts are absolutely full of it and that the knowledge that we, as social beings, glean through our experiences is meaningless when it is countervailed by the experience of a poster on TAM.

Nonetheless, I will go out on a limb and offer OP the words of Dr. W. Harley on the advisability of exposure:

" In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery."

Just FWIW. Obviously this is an expert opinion and must be suspect, so big grain of salt.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Yes, absolutely. I realize that experts are absolutely full of it and that the knowledge that we, as social beings, glean through our experiences is meaningless when it is countervailed by the experience of a poster on TAM.
> 
> Nonetheless, I will go out on a limb and offer OP the words of Dr. W. Harley on the advisability of exposure:
> 
> ...


Well I am no expert, but I am experienced with exposure and waywards. I will say that having him 'outed' shocked him out of fantasyland faster than anything else.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> A few more:
> Expose, and get fired. while they continue working.
> Also, have your letter of exposure used against you in court, such that you get 10% of your time with your kids.
> 
> *Exposing an affair to people that already know,, does nothing*.


Exposing an affair to people that already know means that those people can nolonger pretend that they didn't know.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

They work for the same company,no? (if not, blows my concern outta here)
A letter of exposure that has a financial effect would be suspect of any judge. Capitalized or not.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

QBall_1981 said:


> I work for a different company than my STBXW. Her and the OM work for the same.


Just expose the affair, the advice format Affaircare gave you is sound. Follow through with the OM's friends and family.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> They work for the same company,no? (if not, blows my concern outta here)
> *A letter of exposure that has a financial effect would be suspect of any judge. Capitalized or not.*


*
*

So my attorney was wrong- he knows nothing about the way a judge might view this. Is that what your saying? And "any judge" would also be aware that no one will stand by idle and watch some other man go off into the sunset with his wife. Furthermore, "any judge" will hold a hearing with regard to custody should that become an issue and at that time experts can be called to testify that it is recommended by experts as a tool to stop an affair- he can/would say he was trying to keep his family intact by following expert advice and exposing the affair in order to cut it off. 

And I didnt see where it said HE worked there with her....If thats the case then I still seriously doubt that he'd get fired for dealing with an issue that HR should already have dealt with since the claim is that they already know, right? And if they fired him for exposing his wife's affair- he may never need another job......You wont get fired for telling HR only if you go around spreading it is it possibly a problem. But sending a certified letter to HR? No, not gonna get YOU fired. HER maybe, but not him. But again, I didnt see where it said they both worked there. She and OM work there but not the H. Am I right?


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Just expose the affair, the advice format Affaircare gave you is sound. Follow through with the OM's friends and family.


I completely disagree, and think it will negatively affect your ability to minimize loss.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Op,

Ultimately this is your decision. You came here for advice and you've received it.I gave my opinion, as have others. Best of luck to you. Im out.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

It's fine to have dissenting opinions, but the discussion needs to remain civil and productive. Thank you.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Shooboomafoo: It is not that what you are saying is valueless, as you have real points that the OP, to make his decision a good one, will need to be aware of. To my mind, at least, the back and forth between you and other posters obscured what was valuable in the argument and counter argument. Clearly stated points, with explaination might be more helpful to the OP who could take what he needed and leave the rest.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I dont know what happened today. 
Something I am noticing about myself is a lot of anger, and resulting feeling of being used and taken advantage of. I felt like perhaps throughout my life I had lacked assertiveness, and it has affected me, as you can imagine the areas I believe it has. I havent determined that TAM is my area to work on this, but was defensive and probably should be on some sort of blood pressure meds. 
i dont mean to be a doosh to anyone. Ive had to apologize to others before on here, and yet still I come back, maybe because somethings telling me I can still learn some things, and that I might be able to help someone in some obscure way.

Ive met so many cool people, and want to definitely ask for a pardon from canttrustu, tom67, that one lady with the name I cant remember who was really eloquent.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Perhaps you could start your own thread to talk to people about your anger and whatever else you need to get off your chest. People here are usually very sympathetic. I'm sure you would get some support.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

[small threadjack] Shooboomafoo, 

Oddly enough I've been in your shoes. Before I became the super confident grand dam (or is it "Grand Damn" ) of TAM, I was in an abusive relationship where I was the one being abused. I was passive, my exH was aggressive, and I had no idea what assertive even was or how to be assertive. 

Once I learned, I had to "give it a try"--but of course I went all the way to the opposite end of the spectrum and I was a bit too overpowering. Like a pendulum, I had been all the way to the passive side, but once it swung...LOOK OUT! I went all the way to the aggressive side! 

So no worries. Keep practicing. Assertive doesn't necessarily mean that we agree...it just means that you can say what YOU believe and still feel like I respect what you said even if I disagree. You state "your thing" and I state "my thing" and we both realize that the other guy has just as much right to what they think...as we do. 

[/small threadjack]

For the OP, 

Here's my thought. The idea here is not to have an air-tight legal case. Shoot chances are it wouldn't be worth your time or money to try to actually bring a sexual harassment lawsuit. AND in real life the court does not care one hoot about how "right" or "wrong" it is for your spouse to be carrying on with a fellow-employee. Courts are not about dictating morality. 

NOPE the goal here is to deliver a blow to the affair. Part of the reason the affair is so "fun" is because it involves secrecy and sneaking and it's "two star-crossed lovers overcoming every obstacle to be with their soulmate..." right? It's a fantasy. And it starts to not be such a fun fantasy when a light of TRUTH is shined on it, and it is named for what it really is. The owner may well know about it, but since he's pretending nothing is happening, it can continue. By you sending that letter, he can't pretend anymore. The two of them may want the sexual contact--but chances are that the company has some sort of policy against using the company resources for anything sexual, so if they used a company cell, company laptop, company email, or company travel to facilitate the affair, the company will probably tell them to "Take it off company property!" thus putting a huge dent in their fun time. The reality will begin to hit them. 

It's entirely possible that the owner of the company knows about it from his/her own brother and is helping to keep it a secret. (shrug) It's also just as possible that s/he does NOT know and that by having it made more public, they will be forced to "do something" and that can be a pretty fierce blow to the affair. The biggest point is remember: do not speculate; do not add one jot or tittle to what evidence you have; say only 100% THE TRUTH. If your spouse or the OP makes threats about libel or slander, just laugh to your self because it can't be libel or slander if it is true. If you exaggerate or embellish...well that could be trouble. As long as it's true and you can prove it, you're golden.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shoo it's a journey you know that. I think op should have exposed before but that is water over the bridge. If he feels one more chance to save this he has to go scorched earth and expose. It may or may not work but he dug to reclaim some self respect and may help the kids overall. Peace.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Shooboomafoo said:


> I dont know what happened today.
> Something I am noticing about myself is a lot of anger, and resulting feeling of being used and taken advantage of. I felt like perhaps throughout my life I had lacked assertiveness, and it has affected me, as you can imagine the areas I believe it has. I havent determined that TAM is my area to work on this, but was defensive and probably should be on some sort of blood pressure meds.
> i dont mean to be a doosh to anyone. Ive had to apologize to others before on here, and yet still I come back, maybe because somethings telling me I can still learn some things, and that I might be able to help someone in some obscure way.
> 
> Ive met so many cool people, and want to definitely ask for a pardon from canttrustu, tom67, that one lady with the name I cant remember who was really eloquent.



Peace.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You were too symapathetic if anything..


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

QBall

The good thing is that you did it. You started o expose her lies.

Keep moving forward.

Affaircare gave you great advice. Use it to make your life better.

And never settle for the cards you have been dealt.

HM64


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Good on you Qball for not being anyones doormat. Keep us up to date.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry. You did the right thing. I'm sorry.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

QB81, Did she explain why she did not answer the door?


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

QBall~

Bear in mind that she knows good and well that adultery is "wrong" and that she is destroying her marriage, blowing her family to bits, and harming her own children...and yet she has justified ALL THAT in her head so she can continue her affair. She likes it and it feels good, so she has convinced herself (and others) that you are a monster and she "has to" do this for herself. 

The best thing you can do right now is to NOT be a monster. Don't text with her. Don't call her. Don't email with her. When she tries to engage you in some text war, usually that means something is no rosy in her fantasy world so she has to work you into a fight so she can blame YOU rather than looking to herself or the choices she's made for "why life is hard right now". If she can get you to fight with her, in her mind she can say "See why I can't be with him? See why I've had to have this affair to have any happiness in my life?" 

Soooo here's my advice. It will be VERY hard, but let her roll around in the mud--you can't stop her. But YOU! You go about getting your life back in shape. Get back to being you...the you that you were before you met her. Be the rock for your family. Get your financial life together, your spiritual life together, go to IC and get your emotional life together and as much as you can leave her alone. Become a single-dad. Women have done it for years, and you can do it too, plus the sad truth is that when a person is involved in an affair, they think of their AP and the kids can be sort of "in the way." Let the kids keep their room and their school and their friends, and even if it's not fair, you be their dad while their mom does ... whatever it is she is going to do.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well now you have more proof if family/friends ask you and they will know you are not crazy.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

you cant control what she does Qball. You only control you- be the best YOU there is. Take care of those kids, take care of yourself. Your WS will regret her choices sooner or later. It just may be too late for you to care, thats all.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Have you filed? Has she been served? I only ask because I cannot find mention of it.

Thanks


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Glad you have found out the truth and outed her! 

Reality will creep in now and.you will know exactly where you stand in her eyes soon enough. 

Hopefully though, your eyes will be more important than hers and you will hold the control cards.


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

deleted


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

I deleted my posts because I'm still managing to hurt the person I love. I deleted the posts because, while it was the way I felt a year ago, it isn't the way I've felt in a long time. 

I deleted the posts because my wife leaving wasn't her fault; it was my fault. I had an EA while married; while she was pregnant with our last child. 

The marriage is in shambles because of what I did; not what she did. 

She acted in the way any normal person would have acted when they found out that their husband wasn't faithful and he broke the most serious trust bond that they could have with another person.

I take ownership of the things I did, and understand that i'll live the rest of my life with the consequences of my inexcusable actions. It's me that abandoned her and none of her actions actually caused any of this.

To anyone that looks at this; just understand that the best advice I could give is that you need to talk to your partner about everything. If you value your marriage and the bond that you've worked so hard to forge, then you need to constantly re-honor that and be honest with yourself and your partner or you'll find that your mistakes make you (me) miserable for the rest of your life. Especially when you realize that they are decisions you'll live with until you die.


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