# sexless marriage - celibacy as an option?



## marriedinpei (Jan 15, 2012)

I am in what would be technically called a sexless marriage, e.g. less than 10 times per year. I am getting sick of masturbation. Marriage is otherwise excellant, I'll state right off, divorce is not an option. I love my wife, she loves me, but her libido is ziltch. I'm hoping something, someday will light her fire.

We do hug, kiss, cuddle, and yes, I give her lots of backrubs.

I am considering the idea of stopping masturbation alltogether and just going without sexual release. 

Anyone else thinking about this sort of idea?


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Do it.

Try it for 30 days.

Let that sexual aggression build up. During that time, do not have sex with your wife. Tell her you are taking a 30 day moratorium and why. Give her the start and end dates, mark it on a calendar.

Continue to be close and cuddle, kiss, and show affection. Stop tying you affection time to a sexual outcome, just be affectionate for the sake of being loving. But still no sex or masturbation.

Focus your energy in other areas. 

It's called a sex moratorium and it's designed to clear your thoughts about your sexual relationship. Read Glover's book. 

The answers you are looking for may be found when your thought pattern changes.


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## marriedinpei (Jan 15, 2012)

Very interesting - thanks for the information.

Glover's book? What is the title so I can look around for it?


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

No more Mr. Nice Guy


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

marriedinpei said:


> Very interesting - thanks for the information.
> 
> Glover's book? What is the title so I can look around for it?


No More Mr. Nice Guy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriedinpei (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks! I found it on Amazon


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

^^

You can read it for free right here:

http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

i know the doctors state 10 times a year or less is a sexless marriage.
id take 10 in a year anyday of the week.

thats once a month, i have had sex once in a year, anyway to answer your question YES. i tried this a few months ago.

Didnt waste my time in having sex with wife, no masturbating no nothing. Was doing well actually wuith energy into other areas but i found my wife realising what was going on as i wasnt touchung her at all and giving no compliments to her.

so sort of didnt work in the end.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Dude, don't wipe yourself out completly. Just slip on a porn, kick back and enjoy it for what it is. A bit of fun. If the missus doesn't like it, tell her to rack off and mind her own business. She had the chance to get involved and chose not to. Now, it's got nothing to do with her.


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## duchesspink (Jan 28, 2012)

i've just started to blog retrospectively on how I ended up in a celibate marriage and how it caused me to feel.

I couldn't see a way that I could stay and be happy as it took all of my confidence, self respect and respect for my husband away. We were only in our 30's and he stopped having sex with me from the minute I married him.

Its bloody horrible and not something I'd recommend that anyone ignore.

do you discuss it with your wife and if so, how does she react?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

BTDT she told me it was not only a relief but an order.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

marriedinpei said:


> I am in what would be technically called a sexless marriage, e.g. less than 10 times per year. I am getting sick of masturbation. Marriage is otherwise excellant, I'll state right off, divorce is not an option. I love my wife, she loves me, but her libido is ziltch. I'm hoping something, someday will light her fire.
> 
> We do hug, kiss, cuddle, and yes, I give her lots of backrubs.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it works. If you cut out all forms of it, that is. 
It's not recommended though. Try resolving or leaving


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

marriedinpei said:


> I am in what would be technically called a sexless marriage, e.g. less than 10 times per year. I am getting sick of masturbation. Marriage is otherwise excellant, I'll state right off, divorce is not an option. I love my wife, she loves me, but her libido is ziltch. I'm hoping something, someday will light her fire.
> 
> We do hug, kiss, cuddle, and yes, I give her lots of backrubs.
> 
> ...


Well, since you cannot make her do anything but only convince her, you really only have two options:

* Pour on the attention and hope she responds. This assumes that you are providing something she values (do not focus on massages when she really wants words and praise, for example).
* Alternately, cut back on the love and attention (to varying degrees) in the hopes of breaking through any sense of complacency that may exist.

It sounds like you have already done the first option. Of course, it has failed or you would not be here asking for advice.

The problem you face is that you are limiting the second option by saying you will not divorce. Your wife (a) does not want to have sex with you, and (b) does not see a consequence to not meeting your need. If she knows you will stick around for the duration (either because you told her so or she can read you), why should she change?

I think not pressuring sex her for sex is a lousy idea in your circumstance. IMO you voluntarily abstaining from sex comes into play when (a) she is giving you sex but in a controlling or demeaning manner (it is tied to chores or she gives it up in that "are you happy now" manner) or (b) you have some sort of addiction you are trying to break. The point is to prove (to her and yourself) that you can get by fine without it.

Sounds like you know you can get by fine without sex. Since you are not getting any from her anyways, reducing the pressure on her would be a relief to her, not a wake-up call.

At this point the best course of action is still to pull back and do less for her, since treating her well is having zero results. Invest that time in yourself and any children you have - build a happy life without your wife.

While doing that, take some time to figure out why you are do dead-set against divorce. If it is because you do not have the money to live on your own, don't think you can find someone better, are afraid to be alone, etc. then you really need to grow some backbone and see yourself as (a) worthy of love and affection and (b) perfectly capable of building a life that will provide the happiness you seek. See a therapist to help with any inadequacy or fear issues you may have if you need to.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

DTO, Why are you so adiment to get a divorce? This person is clearly happy with the rest of their life so why throw that all away just for sex? All you're doing is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. ANd sex shoudn't be a demand thing. Just because you are married doesn't mean you have a right to have sex. Rther, sex is a privalage.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I believe that a married man has a reasonable expectation to have an intimate, fulfilling sexual component in his marriage, especially if the woman has a reasonable expectation of monogamy in the marriage.

The problem here is that marriedinpei is giving her what she wants... non-sexual intimacy, backrubs, etc... and he isn't getting what he wants.

Not going without isn't the answer. His wife will be happy for him not to look for sex for 30 days. Hell, she's be happy if he didn't ask for 60 days, or 365 days.

And stopping masturbation won't help... the frustration and resentment will just continue to build.

The only way around this is communication. Tell your wife you agree to monogamy but not celibacy and until there is more sex, you can't give her the non-sexual intimacy she needs.

All this assumes there is no medical/physical reason with her or you for her not to be interested in sex.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Again context..... I hate asking it over and over, but you are asking people to give opinions. Did she ever have a sex drive, have you put on a lot of weight and are no longer attractive? How mismatched are your libidos? Age, kids, how long married? Also how much masturbating are you doing? And how is sex when you have it? Does she get into it and orgasm? Are you skilled in sex (i.e. uninhibited and have no issues with oral.....)?

Now to your post. Stop showing too much affection or doing things in hopes of sex. Be a happy loving husband, but start concentrating on yourself and what makes you happy. 

With masturbating, again normal to me in sexless marriage imo would be 1-2X/wk. Yes if you are doing it daily, probably too much and cutting back is not a terrible thing.

Your wife has told you exactly how she feels and if you have talked about it and she has no interest, you have to find out why, live with it or get out.


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## marriedinpei (Jan 15, 2012)

We have two kids, both under age 10. Her libido was higher early in our marriage, pre-kids. Not a high libido, but higher - we would make love once or twice a week. I was very happy with that.

After marriage, I briefly put on 20 lbs, got that off years ago - I am not overweight. She is overweight, but pretty much the same as when we married. I am very attracted to her - her weight does not dampen my libido 

I do masturbate every day - I'd like to cut back.

When we have sex, she enjoys it - she usually climaxes twice, does not take her long. Problem is, I take a long time to climax, whether masturbating or sex.

I love performing oral on her. Often she will not let me, too self-conscious, but when she does, she loves it.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for the answers..... As opposed to others on TAM who refuse to answer what is normal, I will.....

Masturbating daily is an issue for any grown man (especially if married, even if sexless). Yep cut back or stop as it obviously is affecting performance.

Also talk about your wife being self-conscious. To love oral but not want it, tells me she is repressed and has issues to confront.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't think masturbating daily is necessarily an issue. Masturbation doesn't come close to actual sexual fulfillment so it really isn't like having sex every day. If it causes delayed ejaculation when you have sex with your wide then it can be an issue, however I think lack of sex is the issue here, not masturbation.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

Your situation is very similar to mine. My suggestion to you would be to cut out all of your backrubs & complements. You are fulfilling her intimacy needs and that is why she does not need sex. All of the Hugs, Kisses & Cuddling are fulfilling what she sees as intimacy, I suspect if you remove that from the marriage she will take notice and wonder what changed, that will open the door to some good conversations. She will be able to feel what you are missing and have greater empathy for the situation she has put you in. My second suggestion would be to spend more time making yourself happy and less time trying to do what you think will get you laid. I use to spend my nights doing what I thought would lead up to sex and when the sex did not come I would be disappointed. I stopped setting myself up for that disappointment and have been a lot happier.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> DTO, Why are you so adiment to get a divorce? This person is clearly happy with the rest of their life so why throw that all away just for sex? All you're doing is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. ANd sex shoudn't be a demand thing. Just because you are married doesn't mean you have a right to have sex. Rther, sex is a privalage.


First of all, I am not adamant for divorce. I am merely asking the OP to consider his rationale for taking divorce off the table. If it is because sex is ultimately not a big deal for him (which is doubtful since he is asking for help) or because he does not want to disrupt his kids' lives, those are legitimate reasons.

But, I fell into the trap of thinking that if I kept on proving my selflessness to my wife, she might actually want me. Much of that was due to her insistence that she was working on her issues when she was not. Some was due to my insecurities regarding my qualities as a husband and my ability to find another partner / fear of being alone.

Having overcome those issues and with the benefit of hindsight I've learned a few relevant things. One, that sometimes when you pledge loyalty people take advantage instead of responding positively. Two, sometimes you have to process and understand your emotions to make a good decision on an important issue. Three, unless he is willing to live in thay way indefinitely, he should not take any options off the table - otherwise he is limiting his ability to drive change.

From that base of knowledge I recommended not that he get a divorce, but that he look at the gap between his needs and his current situation and make a good decision for his future. If he can live happily that way, then more power to him. If not, action is needed.

Also, I question your premise. You feel sex is not something I deserve or can earn, right? Would you say my wife's rights are equally low? If I do not deserve sex does it follow that she does not deserve my fidelity and I should get my needs met elsewhere? Or is your argument that sex is trivial and mature people do not make it a relationship issue?

I would strongly argue that (1) sexual satisfaction is an integral part of a marriage and (2) a person cannot demand exclusivity in any area without being willing to meet the need generously himself or herself.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> Dude, don't wipe yourself out completly. Just slip on a porn, kick back and enjoy it for what it is. A bit of fun. If the missus doesn't like it, tell her to rack off and mind her own business. She had the chance to get involved and chose not to. Now, it's got nothing to do with her.


Following up to my earlier response to you, this is lousy advice. First, it seems that if you were to poll a bunch of men they would argue porn is a bad substitute for a willing partner. It might numb the urge for a bit, but eventually it will point out what you do not have and frustrate you more - then what?

Second, if you read around a bit you'll see that sexual refusal usually does not happen in a vacuum. One of the spouses has trauma that seriously inhbiits sexuality, or a spouse is turned off by actions of the other spouse. Sometimes a spouse (even one that is refusing sex) is seriously offended by porn.

So, here you have a guy that wants to keep his family together. What do you think will happen if he pops in a porn openly and he tells his wife to piss off is she does not like it? It's odd that you are railing on me for supposedly advocating divorce yet recommending this course of action.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Also talk about your wife being self-conscious. To love oral but not want it, tells me she is repressed and has issues to confront.


She likely IS repressed..... I was like this for way too many years....Funny I always loved sex, but still I have these pathetic hangups...every time he would go down on me, and he was always trying.... I would be thinking "How in God's name could he enjoy that, I was terribly self conscious, even though it felt wonderful, I simply couldn't relax, the MIND was in overdrive and I would often push him away. Today, if he didn't like that, I would be pi**ed off, I totally totally overcame all of my hang ups.

Sexual Repression is like not being FREE to enjoy something that , had she overcame her mental blockages- gotten a sexual education, changed her mindset in these areas, something deep inside of her could be "Uncaged"... and WOW, she will never be the same woman again! THat has been my personal experience. I believe my sex drive was the same then as it is right now but my mindset had a complete overhaul...in these areas. 

I haven't read alot of this thread, sorry, just wanted to add my 2 cents about Repression here. It destroys ALOT of marital sex lives, and it is very very unfortunate.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

She sounds like my wife, emotionally twelve years old.


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## Monty4321 (Jul 15, 2011)

marriedinpei said:


> I am in what would be technically called a sexless marriage, e.g. less than 10 times per year. I am getting sick of masturbation. Marriage is otherwise excellant, I'll state right off, divorce is not an option. I love my wife, she loves me, but her libido is ziltch. I'm hoping something, someday will light her fire.
> 
> We do hug, kiss, cuddle, and yes, I give her lots of backrubs.
> 
> ...



I am surprised to see this thread. I am also contemplating the same thing. Divorce is not an option for me either. 

I do love my wife, but I am not romantically in love with her. I was a very passionate person, but I never received the same back from her. We have no romance any more and she has never tried nor sought any help.

I am only a bit past 30 - still pretty young. I am pulling away from porn due to my faith. I hate masturbating - it doesn't do anything for me.

I will probably be seriously considering going celibate so I won't have to bother her any longer for sex/intimacy. Then I we will be to friends living together. Maybe one day see will awaken and realize how much she has hurt me and the marriage.


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## isla~mama (Feb 1, 2012)

I tried exactly this about 5 years into a (now 16 year) sexless marriage (I am female). I felt like I was losing my mind! Seriously, I think I began to develop some kind of mental illness over this period-- I because incredibly anxious and depressed. Now I let myself fantasize/ "self indulge" as much as I want to.... to save my sanity. So no, I would not recommend the route of no longer masturbating.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

My husband and I are separated but were sleeping together as we attempted to reconcile our marriage...but I found myself having to beg for sex, cajole him, nag him and when we did have sex, it was mechanical and forced. 

The other day we talked (after having a big blow out about this topic) and he said he just couldn't be the type of lover I wanted and that he was a "terrible boyfriend." 

He said it is like his "switch went off" and I needed to accept him for what he was, that we had many valid reasons for being together and that I was important to him and he wanted me in his life. 

I said "I guess I'll have to accept this but it's going to take time. Until that time I can no longer sleep with you. You need to go back to your own place at night." He said he didn't like it, but would accept it so we are getting along OK..for now. I just want to put distance between us so I can stop this pain from rejection. 

So at least now I won't be lying next to him, seething while he rejects me. I'd rather be alone with my toys. Masturbation is better than nothing. Why cut yourself off from EVERYTHING because your partner is too selfish or uncaring to attend to your needs?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Diolay said:


> DTO, Why are you so adiment to get a divorce? This person is clearly happy with the rest of their life so why throw that all away just for sex? All you're doing is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. ANd sex shoudn't be a demand thing. Just because you are married doesn't mean you have a right to have sex. Rther, sex is a privalage.


Sex is NOT a privilege in marriage! It's part of the bond that ensures that the husband is getting his needs met. It's a requirement.

Hey honey! Let's get married so I can ensure I never ever get my needs met and never have sex again in my life, because I'm ok that you place so little value on my wants and needs in this marriage that you would even consider never having sex with me. I'm ok with no intimacy for the rest of my life because my morals state that I can never cheat on you to fulfill the highest need of any man...have sex with his wife. But I totally understand that me having sex with you is a privlidge. 

What about paying the bills so you can support ypur wife while she takes care of the kids? Is that a privlidge? Making your wife feel great because you complimented her in those tight jeans? Is that a privlidge? Taking her on a great date with dinner and dancing, so she feels alive and happy? Yup! A privlidge too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Oh I see. Now I understand. You thnk that because you're married, you have a right to have sex with you wife.

Hey wife, I'm feeling horney so take off your clothes and get into bed. Yes I am going to have sex with you weather you want to or not because I'm your husband and it's my right.

You'll find yourself in court on a rape charge so fast your head will spin.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Well,

I'm not talking about rape or forced sex. But a woman who wants to deny her husband sexual intimacy constantly over such an extended period can be the considered to be on the same level as emotional abuse.

Btw. Except for that last sentence, that's exactly what I would say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Good to see you're talking a bit more rational now. Much better.

The point I'm trying to make is some people, men too, are not all that sexual. We are all different. Some are tall, some are short. Some have dark hair while others are blonde. We are all mixed on how our makers (if that makes any sence) put us together and make us who and what we are.

Having said that, if the person who you love, and cherish is not a sexual person, is it right that you put your wants ahead of theirs? Does that mean that a marriage certificate is a licence for you to have your way with them, any time you feel like it? That this person has an obligation to put aside who and what they are because you are feeling randy?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> Oh I see. Now I understand. You thnk that because you're married, you have a right to have sex with you wife.
> 
> Hey wife, I'm feeling horney so take off your clothes and get into bed. Yes I am going to have sex with you weather you want to or not because I'm your husband and it's my right.
> 
> You'll find yourself in court on a rape charge so fast your head will spin.


Nobody is talking about rape, threats, or coercion here. Your response (which I've quoted) is a tad drama-queen-ish.

What I would say is "wife, when two people get married it is understood they will make provisions for each other's happiness in certain areas, including meeting the physical longing for sex.

You probably would not approve of me getting this need met outside of this marriage. I am not fond of this idea either. That makes you the only person who can meet this need.

Thus, it is your responsibility to meet the sexual need. Refusing indicates of level of disregard for me that is incompatible with remaining married. I am offering you an opportunity to get the help necessary to overcome your reluctance / aversion."


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> Good to see you're talking a bit more rational now. Much better.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is some people, men too, are not all that sexual. We are all different. Some are tall, some are short. Some have dark hair while others are blonde. We are all mixed on how our makers (if that makes any sence) put us together and make us who and what we are.
> 
> Having said that, if the person who you love, and cherish is not a sexual person, is it right that you put your wants ahead of theirs? Does that mean that a marriage certificate is a licence for you to have your way with them, any time you feel like it? That this person has an obligation to put aside who and what they are because you are feeling randy?


First, IMO the vast majority of people understand that marriage is a sexual relationship. Also, your spouse is your only legitimate sexual outlet. If this were not true, you would not see this high level of anger / hurt / indignation with sexual refusal or adultery that prevails across religious and cultural lines.

So, people understand that their partner is going to expect satisfying sex from them. Well-adjusted people do not choose spouses for whom they cannot meet this need. People who do so generally are selfish (marrying to get their own needs met, not to create a partnership) and should not be excused from the moral responsibility of meeting their spouses' sexual need.

So, no, I don't think the marriage license grants me the right to have sex absolutely whenever I feel like it (and I think most would agree). But, being married grants me the privilege of receiving (and my spouse the responsibility of providing) a satisfying sex life that admittedly likely will require a significant amount of accomodation.

What I would say (and have said in the past) to a refusing spouse is that nobody compelled the marriage - it was a free choice. She willing made implicit and explicit promises to me at the time or agreeing to marry me. Or (if she objects to sex as a duty, as you do) she can understand that being married to me (receiving the benefits she values) is as much a privilege as me enjoying sex with her. Whichever way she prefers is fine.

Either way, the satisfying sex is part of an even exchange within the marriage. If she feels otherwise (i.e. that sex should be valued at a premium to my provision) or otherwise is persistently unwilling or unable to cheerfully meet my need, we have two choices: work on the relationship with professional guidance and reach a happy compromise, or end the marriage.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

You make it sound like your wife/husband is some sort of an electrical appliance. You buy it, turn it on and if it doesn't work, you make a warranty claim or get your money back. These are human being not television sets. You don't just swp them over because the sex buttons are stuck.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> You make it sound like your wife/husband is some sort of an electrical appliance. You buy it, turn it on and if it doesn't work, you make a warranty claim or get your money back. These are human being not television sets. You don't just swp them over because the sex buttons are stuck.


If you are talking about me, I don't see how this is true.

If you read my last post carefully, you will see that I am not just suggesting I walk out at the first sign of sexual trouble. Note that I said I would act in that manner in cases of persistent sexual refusal, not for occasional sexual "down time". Even then, I would offer professional help and not just "swap" her out as you put it.

The underlying rationale is that everyone has occasions where maintaining the sexual relationship is not foremost in one's mind. Even at that, your regard for your spouse should drive you to want to provide that which they cannot provide for themselves (a sexual connection with another person, not just a release). Remember that we generally are talking about issues of "will not" rather than "cannot", not issues where physical impairment or separation prevent sex.

By the time I call out a spouse for persistent sexual refusal, it would be obvious that there is a serious problem we cannot overcome ourselves. This can happen and is not necessarily anyone's fault. But, when one spouse knows there is a serious problem and does not care enough to get help, that is a serious level of selfishness and disrespect - not just a sexual issue - and needs to be addressed.


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## Monty4321 (Jul 15, 2011)

Diolay said:


> You make it sound like your wife/husband is some sort of an electrical appliance. You buy it, turn it on and if it doesn't work, you make a warranty claim or get your money back. These are human being not television sets. You don't just swp them over because the sex buttons are stuck.


:scratchhead: I'm not sure what kind of world you think you live in. You are talking like a single person or issues against intimacy/sex in marriage. Are you married?

What is your deal? Your view is one sided. We are humans too. Both the husband and wife are both humans and both have mental and physical needs. 

Him bringing his needs to the table is not an act of selfishness. 
Electric appliance? Are you kidding me? I seen nothing in here about being demanding. 

Seems more like he is being treated like an appliance or computer. Whenever he comes calling, she shuts him down or off as if he doesn't have emotions and feelings. 

In marriage sex is a right and it is expected - good freaking sexual fulfillment. It shouldn't be forced and demanding obviously? You can't make anyone do anything they don't want to. If you have to make someone have sex...they shouldn't be married.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

If you're sick of masturbation you're not doing it right. If you don't like masturbation you are really not going to like celibacy which is a step down not a step up (unless you are a priest)


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

In an earlier post, DTO was asking why he was so dead set against divorce when it was so clear that Marriedinpei was very happy with all the other aspects of their life together. The only problem they had was purely sex. That’s it. I see in many other posts here and it’s been my experience too, that being in a hot sexual relationship doesn’t often make for a good partner. If everything else is going rosy, it would be such a waste to throw all that away. Divorce should be an absolute last resort for those who cannot find a common ground on any level and living with that person is unbearable.
With DTOs second pint about the masturbation! Being o substitute for a willing partner, Marriedinpei has already made it clear that he doesn’t have one. So what’s the option here? Nothing? I agree masturbation may not be the greatest way to live but it’s better than climbing the walls. Doing nothing will probably drive you nuts. So, as the saying goes, “What do you do if all you have is lemons? You make lemonade”. Just make the best of a bad situation. Surly we are entitled to that.
Alphaomega came up with a response regarding sex being a right and took this response to the far end of the spectrum with the comment, “Hey honey! Let's get married so I can ensure I never ever get my needs met and never have sex again in my life, because I'm ok that you place so little value on my wants and needs in this marriage that you would even consider never having sex with me”. So I took it to the other end of the spectrum with “Hey wife, I'm feeling horney so take off your clothes and get into bed. Yes I am going to have sex with you weather you want to or not because I'm your husband and it's my right”.
Ok, it was over the top…admittingly… but I didn’t take the conversation there. I just put some balance back from Alphaomegas comments.
DTO come back with “when two people get married it is understood they will make provisions for each other's happiness in certain areas, including meeting the physical longing for sex”. I’m right there with you on that. 1000%. With you all the way. No argument there. 
Throughout DTO’s second part, reasons for getting married and understanding what it’s all about I totally agree with that too. The part I had a problem with was the last part. If the sex is no good, we will try to work it out and if it doesn’t, bye bye. If the relationship overall is going great, why be so focussed on just that one area? Why not concentrate on all the other areas that do work so well? Enjoy the big picture.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Now, Monty4321, Not sure what your question is about what kind of world I think I’m living in. We all live in our own world. It’s what we create. Yes I’m married.

My view is one sided? Of course it’s one sided. I’m not schizophrenic. There is only one of me here. That’s why they call us “individuals”!

Am I against intimacy? No way. Far from it but the person who started this post is having problems with his wife. I don’t know how much of this section you’ve actually read but here’s a recap. His wife won’t make love to him so should he stop masturbating? I say don’t stop masturbating because if he does, he will explode. His wife loves him and he loves her but she has intimacy issues. Work on them by all means but don’t stop with the release.

I s sex a right? Nothing in this world is a right. Let me explain, If we look at sex as a right, we make demands on our partners. We tend to fall into the trap of “You have to have sex with me because that’s my right and you cannot take it from me. In other words, we run the danger of not seeing our partner as a human but property. 

But if we look at sex as a privalage, we see it in a whole new light. We become more appreciative of what we have. We become more thankful for what we have just shared and the time we spent together as a couple. When we get married, we don’t get the rights to sex but more of the exclusive.

(Gee I hope I said that right) Can you understand where I’m coming from with this?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diolay said:


> In an earlier post, DTO was asking why he was so dead set against divorce when it was so clear that Marriedinpei was very happy with all the other aspects of their life together. The only problem they had was purely sex. That’s it. I see in many other posts here and it’s been my experience too, that being in a hot sexual relationship doesn’t often make for a good partner. If everything else is going rosy, it would be such a waste to throw all that away. Divorce should be an absolute last resort for those who cannot find a common ground on any level and living with that person is unbearable.
> With DTOs second pint about the masturbation! Being o substitute for a willing partner, Marriedinpei has already made it clear that he doesn’t have one. So what’s the option here? Nothing? I agree masturbation may not be the greatest way to live but it’s better than climbing the walls. Doing nothing will probably drive you nuts. So, as the saying goes, “What do you do if all you have is lemons? You make lemonade”. Just make the best of a bad situation. Surly we are entitled to that.
> Alphaomega came up with a response regarding sex being a right and took this response to the far end of the spectrum with the comment, “Hey honey! Let's get married so I can ensure I never ever get my needs met and never have sex again in my life, because I'm ok that you place so little value on my wants and needs in this marriage that you would even consider never having sex with me”. So I took it to the other end of the spectrum with “Hey wife, I'm feeling horney so take off your clothes and get into bed. Yes I am going to have sex with you weather you want to or not because I'm your husband and it's my right”.
> Ok, it was over the top…admittingly… but I didn’t take the conversation there. I just put some balance back from Alphaomegas comments.
> ...


Marriedinpei did not say that he was very happy. He said he did not wish to divorce - not the same thing. I was asking if he could take this indefinitely, since removing divorce as an option severely limits his influence. Many people love their spouses and are unhappy - those two states are not mutually exclusive.

First, sometimes people are unhappy but remain because they are reluctant to upset the status quo. Sometimes people remain because they mistakenly come to believe that their spouses will eventually reward their patience. And, sometimes people remain because they are afraid of being alone and potentially having to find someone else.

I was clear that this reflects personal experience, as well as observations. I had all three thoughts. I kept on loving my ex, seeing but not _appreciating_ how badly she treated me. Moreover, it took two disgusting non-sexual actions on her part to snap me out of my self-deception. I'm not saying the OP is there, but him saying "she loves me but won't have sex with me" and "I will not divorce her" are red flags.

That being said, you assume that a relationship can be wonderful without sex. That may be true for you, but for many of us sex is essential. I consider sex an (but not the only) essential of marriage. Think of a car - it must have an engine, a transmission, a suspension, and brakes. If any of these are missing, the car is does not serve its purpose. It is possible that the OP does not care about sex, but then why is he here?

I think you are missing a crucial fact. Sex is always important in marriage. "Sex is not important" generally means "I am repulsed by sex. Honor my feelings or there will be consequences." The refuser expects you to forego sex and does not recognize your right to be unhappy. IMO it's a respect issue first and a sex issue second - another good reason to act decisively.

Your recommendation that he pop in a porn openly and tell his wife to stuff it if she does not like it reflects ignorance of this fact. I would be surprised if you could find more than a few refusers here who would allow that. Moreover, many refusers object to regular masturbation as well. Again, odd advice from a person who says forget the sex and enjoy the marriage.

At the end of the day (to repeat for clarity) I generally refrain from advising anyone to stay in or get out of a marriage. I do offer the benefit of my experience and encourage people to be comfortable with their relationship needs and confident enough in themselves to (1) pursue their needs, (2) know they are just as valuable as their spouses, and (3) know they will be okay if they wind up being out of the relationship _before_ making any long-term decisions.

Paragraphs are your friend.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Marriedinpei DID say he was happy with his mariage. 

"Marriage is otherwise excellant, I'll state right off, divorce is not an option. I love my wife, she loves me" 

His words, not mine. I didn't type them. They were in his opening statement. 

Yes, some people do stay married regardless and for different reasons. He doesn't say why in his case he wants to stay married but he obviously does and that's his choice. That should be respected which is why I defend his choice so vigously. He Specifically told us that divorce is not an option. 

In this particular case, he is asking if he should give up masturbation. He is a male. As such, his body produces various hormones and these continue to build. You're a guy, you should know that surly. You should also know what happens and how your mind twists and turns and how out of balance you become if you don't have some release.

I stand by what I said. What ever he needs to do to release those hormones and keep himself in balance then so be it.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

PS, I used paragraphs this time.


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