# Lesbian Afffair? Emotional Affair? What Should I Do?



## Brian27 (Sep 1, 2013)

Hi,

I'm hoping to get some advice as I don't feel I can speak to anyone I know about this.

I have been with my gf for 8+ years, we have a 3 year old together. I've thought for a long time that our relationship wasn't perfect, but we rarely fight and are nice to each other, maybe just lacking some affection?

I don't know how relevant this is, but 1 month ago, we lost a pregnancy quite early on (5 weeks), this has been difficult for my gf, but shes seems OK.

going back a bit now, 4 months ago, a girl started at her work, she is a lesbian and was in her own relationship. My gf told me bits about her, no more than anyone else she's talked about. I had no concerns or suspicions. 

I then started to notice that she was texting loads, I wasn't certain to whom, but I'm not normally the jealous type so I didn't mention it. That increased following the miscarriage, but again, I thought if shes talking thing through with friends, that's probably good.

To get to the point, we went for a meal with my family, I innocently asked to borrow her phone as I had no signal and she got it out. she had a msg, so she read it and passed me the phone. however the msg was still on the screen, at a glance I read a msg from earlier that day (from my gf) that read something like 'I'll save the new bra for our date. x x x' 

I wanted to puke. I felt so ill like every drop of blood had left my body. Naturally I couldn't act normally so I said I was feeling really ill and needed air, my mum said I looked terrible and to get home, so my gf and I left. 

When we got back I confronted her. she played it down for an hour saying it was a jokey msg and I didn't know the context etc.

after 2 hours she admitted it was flirty and that she like the attention from this other girl. I asked her if she was falling for her and she said she didn't know but promised nothing physical had happened. I think I believe that part.

She promised that she hadn't deleted any msgs and let me read them, there were sooo many. Nothing outright sexual, but lots of 'you're beautiful' etc

after about another hour I asked if she wanted to stay with me or be with her, she said she didn't know, I said I'd give her some space an went upstairs. Something uncontrollable made me go straight back down and I found she was texting this other woman.

The msg explained I'd seen the msgs and that I'd accused her of an affair. there was a text straight back but I never got to see it before it was deleted.

So I freaked out, I said that normally when people get caught they either say 'i'm so sorry, I was stupid and I'll fix it' or I want to break up. she just kept saying she didn't know.

the next day, she woke up and came down (I stayed on the sofa). she said she couldn't believe what she's said and was sorry. she said she loves me and doesn't want anyone else. 

its 2 days later, I'm a wreck. I cant stand up without feeling sick and I can't get this out of my head.

She said shes going to tell this person she cant see her anymore, but they work together. surely those feelings can't just go away? and working alongside her will just re-ignite them?

I told her it's OK if she's gay, i said that I'd support her if thats how she felt but she says shes 100% straight and it was just the attention and that her hormones were all over the place etc.

Please tell me if I'm being taken for a ride? This is not normal is it? Please can someone give me some advice. I now feel that it's worse she had to think whether she wanted me or someone she was flirting with. 

Is she saying she wants to be with me while she figures out if theres something with the other person? oh should I give her time? its driving me crazy.

I also feel that its worse she was so emotionally attached without a physical relationship? Is that crazy to think?

She also said that it wasn't the person, that it was the attention she liked. Does that mean if someone else shows her attention, the same thing will happen? Male or female? Basically anyone in the world but me? I know how pathetic this sounds, but that's how it feels.

P.S. For the record she said today that I'd been super supportive throughout the miscarriage and that it wasn't my lack of support that caused this


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

#1. She has a kid with you, and you live together. So stop being a high school bf and stop the whole talk about her taking time to decide who she wants to be with. 

She is either in your family 100% right now, or it's time for her to pack, and leave, and for you two to work out 50-50 custody.

I know you think that will drive her away, but it is far more attractive to have a man that has boundaries and self respect and sticks to them, than a guy who is being passive and accommodating.


She has been disloyal to your relationship and she has been betraying the family. 

She also was immediately interested in being honest with the other woman than she was with you. She ran to text the other woman behind your back, and to tell her everything about you. Yet she deleted the texts to the other woman.

See how she's fighting to maintain secrecy and privacy with the other woman, but about you and her relationship with you, she freely tells the OW everything?

She's giving more loyalty to the OW than to you.

Actions -

1. Realize that they've fooled around physically. The bra and date comment doesn't sound like a joke to me, that sounds like a plan.

2. She will have to leave the job working with the OW. No way can she keep hanging for hours each day with someone who's pursuing her. She should have though about loyalty to you before she chose to begin a romantic relationship with another person.

3. Find the partner of the OW , do whatever you need to, but find her and notify her of what's going on.

4. Full transparency from you GF - in particular no more deleted messages and you get to read all of them

5. The OW is immediately dumped by your gf - no more messages, hanging out etc.

6. If she won't choose you right now, show her the door. Be strong if you want to keep her. You can't negotiate someone back into a relationship, but you can kick them out and tell them your terms for them coming back - full and total fidelity and loyalty. Nothing less.

Seriously stand up and fight for the relationship by enforcing boundaries. Don't be lead by sensitive give her space to decide garbage.

While you are at this, get ASAP and real Married Mans Sex life Primer by Athol. The title is misleading. It really should be much more like For Men: a guide to understand why a woman would be in a relationship with me, and how to increase it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The hormonal and psychological stress of losing a pregnancy may be significant contributing factors. I'd suggest giving her a little slack under the circumstances, but also couples' counseling may be in order, to really get to the bottom of why this happened and how to deal with it.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

When a person says I don't know if I am falling for someone....it means they are falling for someone.

Why are you giving her all of the power to decide whether or not you stay together? Is this a deal breaker to you or not? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

It hard to know whether she really means to cut off communication with the OW or whether she is in damage control and telling you what she thinks you want to hear. My guess is that she probably thought if you and her split then she would have to be on her own and she did not like this financially.

Ask her how she would feel if you told her about a girl you work with and that you are not sure if you are falling for her?


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## Brian27 (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for your honesty Shaggy,

Firstly, I wasn't being a high school bf, I simply wanted to make sure I gave her the space to be honest rather than say what I was forcing her to say as she was backed into a corner. I don't want to live a lie for six months then find myself here again. 

In no way do I condone domestic violence or violence on any women, I have never hit a woman. but I had to be very careful not to lash out, and I still feel like finding this OW and giving her what she deserves. I won't, of course I won't but thats how I feel.

I wasn't weak, I totally lost it when she said she wasn't sure. Ever since then she's be groveling to me, saying she wants to prove her loyalty to me

Her Job - I said exactly that, but its difficult to find work at the moment. Do I tell her she must quit tomorrow? or give her time to find something else?

Thanks


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Brian27 said:


> *'I'll save the new bra for our date. x x x*'
> 
> I asked her if she was falling for her and *she said she didn't know* but promised nothing physical had happened.
> 
> ...


It was physical between her and the other woman. The bra comment. How do you explain the bra comment?

"Nothing was deleted" - you can match up the messages to her call log. Verify this. Even if nothing was deleted, doesn't change my opinion that it likely was a physical relationship based solely on the bra comment.

The fact that she answered "I don't know" about leaving you for the other woman is stunning. She's been with you 8 years, has a kid with you, and you have been supportive. She's known other woman four months through work. 8 years through life's ups and downs vs. 4 months at work. Yet she "didn't know" who she wanted to be with.

You are right to question everything. It is becoming apparent that there is a whole different part of your girlfriend that you don't know about.

Some women are broken (so are some men, but we're talking about your broken girlfriend here). They need continual validation and attention from men. Attention is a big deal for most women. They enjoy getting it. Much more than most men. I don't think most men, especially younger ones, realize just how prevalent this situation is, just how much some women - many women - crave verbal compliments and verbally expressed sexual desire. Many men think that they are showing their love by "working hard," by "providing for their families," by "being loyal" and coming home every night. The type of woman I am talking about needs the attention on top of that. For some, it is not good enough even if they DO get that attention from their boyfriend/husband, they still will seek it out or fall for it from other men. In your case, the only difference, is that your wife appears to get off on getting that attention from any source - man or woman.

The thing about attention could be true, but in your girlfriend's case, it was more than just attention. If it was just attention, she would have dropped other woman like a hot potato as soon as you confronted.

Your wife has sexual interest in women, at the very least this particular other woman, maybe in general.

Is your girlfriend thinking about leaving you for this other woman? It's a definite possibility. Their is a social stigma on cheating to begin with, but there is even a greater one for cheating with another woman if you have never let anyone know you are bi or gay. Your girlfriend may not be ready to have others think of her as a lesbian, and that's why she's staying with you. She may be worried about what her parents will think. She may not be ready to be thought of as a cheater. She may not be ready to be thought of as someone who broke up the family of her young child.

There are things you can do and ask your girlfriend to do to break up the affair, go no contact, give passwords, etc., but I'm not sure that's the right course for you. Do you really want to be with your girlfriend if she doesn't want to be with you and is just staying for reputational reasons or identity reasons?

I think you still have a lot of talking to do with her to get to the bottom of this. The "attention" explanation comes nowhere near explaining her actions with this other woman and her responses to you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What kind of job does she have?

Is she a professional or a office worker or a retail worker?

At a minimum I'd (you) would be reporting it to HR and the boss. I'd be saying, you just hired X. Xs first thing upon arrival was to on the job seek out a relationship with a Y.

Y is considering leaving because X continues to pursue a relationship. What will you, the boss/hr do about this situation?


They may fire X because she's the new one, and because she's pursuing romance at the work place.

Also a very good test of your gfs true loyalty.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> The hormonal and psychological stress of losing a pregnancy may be significant contributing factors. I'd suggest giving her a little slack under the circumstances, but also couples' counseling may be in order, to really get to the bottom of why this happened and how to deal with it.


Sorry, but in this case such slack is basically giving her permission to explore a new relationship.

If I were with anyone who though to little of themselves that they would give me space to cheat on them, they would instantly loose all attractiveness to me.

No better way to drive someone away than being understanding when you are being treated with betray and disloyalty by that person. It's called acting like a doormat.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Brian27 said:


> Thanks for your honesty Shaggy,
> 
> Firstly, I wasn't being a high school bf, *I simply wanted to make sure I gave her the space to be honest rather than say what I was forcing her to say as she was backed into a corner.* I don't want to live a lie for six months then find myself here again.
> 
> ...


The bolded is what we look like a very unsavvy and hence the high school comment. 

You have a child with her. Otherwise I would say let her go.

Do NOT give her space to decide. Instead insist she go immediatley NC with the other woman. No time for fond farewalls. No time to think it through. No nothing. Immediate. IF she wants time to think then let her go and lookinto custody.

Who cares how difficult it is to find work. That is excuse is beyond lame and we hear it all the time. Basically you have given up your woman to another. The job must go immediately. I am assuming you would not want her to be a prostitute just because work is hard to find. This is even worse because there is an emotional connection that must be borken.

So if you want to save this relationship then you have her immediatley with no deep discussion terminate her job and go full forever and verifiably NC.

Also a side comment. It is beyond me why folks have children and yet cannot commit to marriage. Whatever. More and more common these days. But I digress. Stop being so understanding and save this relationship ... for your childs sake.

The NC is so she can go through withdrawal. Either you are in or you are out.

Indeed no violence. That is very high school as well though common in some men of any age. It is an immature response is the deal here. Anyway, giving her space to take the affair to the next level is the last thing you want. Having that six months is where you work on the ummm, I wanted to say marriage. Why are you not married BTW? Some women see that as a lack of commitment. She must go through wiothdrawal and that require about two full months of NC. ANY contact in anyway starts the clock over. Since in almost all cases contact is made, this can take much of that six months to do. But she must quit her job. If you choose not to do this then basiaclly due to finances you can not protect your marriage / woman so let her go, get financially on your feet so that you can afford to have a relationship. Money os not the answer for everything, but you can see where it can give you options.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Brian27 said:


> *I totally lost it when she said she wasn't sure. Ever since then she's be groveling to me, saying she wants to prove her loyalty to me*
> 
> Her Job - *I said exactly that, but its difficult to find work *at the moment. Do I tell her she must quit tomorrow? or give her time to find something else?
> 
> Thanks


The extreme dichotomy of what she initially told you - "I don't know" - vs. how she is acting now only a day later - "groveling" - tells you that something is way out of whack. Either she was lying yesterday when she told you "I don't know" or she is lying today by "groveling."

I think the "groveling" is a lie. I think she is afraid of "coming out" or of you "outing" her. I think the groveling is to put a stop to you outing her, which she is not ready for. Maybe she will never come out. Maybe she wants to repress it. Maybe she wants to keep it private. Maybe it is the cheating she doesn't want to be known for. Maybe it is a combination.

But there is no way she is telling you "I don't know" over and over and over again yesterday and is "groveling" to show her loyalty today. She is groveling to get what she wants.

There is too much going on here, too many contradictions, too many questions, and not enough answers for you to immediately reconcile with her. You need more answers from her.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Job hunting ASAP. If she can stay away of workplace somehow meanwhile the better.
NC text, aproved by you, to end things properly.
Complete transparence in comunication devices and whereabouts. If she still has to be there for a while... commitment to "just professional" contact if necessary and disclosure of any kind of comunication she has with this OW at work (OW won't go that easy).
Full disclosure of what was going on, specificaly physical contact even if not openly sexual and radical honesty about hwat's going on in her head.

... or divorce.
Be very clear and firm on this, your family future is at play here. It's up to her to decide whther she want to fix this. Those are your conditions to give her another chance.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> The hormonal and psychological stress of losing a pregnancy may be significant contributing factors. I'd suggest giving her a little slack under the circumstances, but also couples' counseling may be in order, to really get to the bottom of why this happened and how to deal with it.


She needs to quit her job and go NC. She can have the slack sans her lover.

Counseling is useless while the affair is ongoing. He must break up the affair first.

Slack is not the answer for everything. Letting her have an affair is NOT slack. 

Maybe she needs to cut him some slack and quit that job.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

She is groveling, but is she also resisting quitting her job?

While you are figuring this thing out, I recommend you proceed with steps that will help you reconcile, if that is what you ultimately decide to do.

You should get all passwords and access to all communication devices and accounts. Match up call logs to the messages on the phone.

Yes, she should quit this job immediately. After she quits, she should change her phone number, delete her facebook page. If she doesn't quit, then she should request a reassignment of duties to work away from other woman while she looks for another job, explaining the reason why.

In the meantime, buy a couple of voice-activated recorders and put one in the car and one in the house where she is likely to talk when you are not around. This is the number one way that betrayed partners find out the truth about their unfaithful partners' true intentions. One week with the voice-activated recorders in place and you should have your answers.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I agree with the other posters.

But I think her comment of "Save the bra for our date" has been overlooked.

What date? When was it supposed to happen? Where? How many other dates have they had already?

Does your GF have a lot of time that is not accounted for? Does she go "out with the girls"?

A date does not sound like an EA to me - sounds physical or at least a plan to be physical.

Do you own property with her? Are you tied together financially (joint accounts)? Can you walk away relatively clear if she has been physical with the OW?

I would not take anything she tells you at face value now. The "date" comment and her deleting the text reply from OW immediately when you came back are both huge red flags to me.

What you need now is the truth and I don't think you are going to get it from her. Might be time to play detective. Be cool. Act like everything is OK. Put her at ease.

What kind of phone does she have? I it is an iPhone you can track her by the "find my phone" app. Get a VAR or two put one in her car.

Take care of your child. Good luck.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Brian27 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm hoping to get some advice as I don't feel I can speak to anyone I know about this.
> 
> ...


If you looked through the txt mssg on my cell you'd find a BUNCH of very similar flirty messages with my women friends. You'd even find a few of those women friends are lesbians or Bi. What you wouldn't find, even with the strongest truth serum is ANY desire on my part or THEIR part....they are just ways women support one another. "Hey beautiful! Just thinking of your sexy ass and wondering when we can get drunk and screw." Or, "he said what? What a d!ck, I'd totally do you even without makeup!" Or, "hot ass booty, heard someone say that and thought of you..."

Yes, sounds incriminating but it's just a way for women to give and receive the kind of attention we wish our mates gave.

Secondly, she said she didn't know because she just had a miscarriage and she is overwhelmingly feeling complete disappointment. It is not uncommon for women to -very unfairly I might add- lump him into the sense of overwhelming disappointment. Lets be honest, most men are not very good with emotional supporting a woman who just had a miscarriage.

She came to you the next morning and tried to set things right. But you are stuck in feeling like she has rejected you over a girlfriend.

What can she do to make things right with you? 

The reaction here is absurd!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> If you looked through the txt mssg on my cell you'd find a BUNCH of very similar flirty messages with my women friends. You'd even find a few of those women friends are lesbians or Bi. What you wouldn't find, even with the strongest truth serum is ANY desire on my part or THEIR part....they are just ways women support one another. "Hey beautiful! Just thinking of your sexy ass and wondering when we can get drunk and screw." Or, "he said what? What a d!ck, I'd totally do you even without makeup!" Or, "hot ass booty, heard someone say that and thought of you..."
> 
> Yes, sounds incriminating but it's just a way for women to give and receive the kind of attention we wish our mates gave.
> 
> ...


Anon. I am going to call you out. You are NOT in a happy marriage. So your activities as such are not a great example of why any of this is ok.

Sorry to be so blunt but this guy is looking for honest help. Few guys would consider what you are doing as acceptable. 

Yes you have a right to your opinion, but the OP needs to know this is not a normal or good thing period in a happy relationship.

But man or woman aside, playing this off as a joke is a non starter. Most of the non marriage friendly activities in a workplace environment are played off as just kidding and they rarely ever are. So at the least what she is doing is very inappropriate. But there is great reason to believe it is beyond that. He needs to err on the side of his relationship. Not assume anything else. Poor behavior by other women is not an excuse to let this go.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

@anon - read it again, she's admitted to having a interest in the OW. And this isn't some girl friend she's has for years, this is woman at work who is clearly pursuing her.

Two red flags for me here

1. The "next date" implies they've been out before.

2. She didnt just come to her husband and say let's work on it. She spent a lot of time texting the OW and then deleting the texts. That's her being loyal to the OW. If she wanted to honest with her husband, she wouldn't have run to text the OW and she certainly wouldn't have deleted the texts.

I'm betting the OW was supportive of her, but told her not to let you be controlling of her. 

The fact that you read all the other messages but then she deleted these most recent ones is a very very bad act of bad faith on her part.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Anon. I am going to call you out. You are NOT in a happy marriage. So your activities as such are not a great example of why any of this is ok.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but this guy is looking for honest help. Few guy would consider what you are doing as acceptable.
> 
> Yes you have a right to your opinion, but the OP needs to know this is not a normal or good thing period in a happy relationship.


I'm not offended, should have said that straight up myself.

But my point remains very valid. If, by your standards, giving and receiving such flirty messages with women friends constitutes an emotional affair then nearly every single woman friend I have is being emotionally unfaithful to her husband, even the ones with very happy marriages. I just don't buy that, at all.

Women relate to each other VERY VERY differently than they relate to men.



Will Kane said:


> Some women are broken (so are some men, but we're talking about your broken girlfriend here). *They need continual validation and attention from men.* Attention is a big deal for most women. They enjoy getting it. Much more than most men. I don't think most men, especially younger ones, realize just how prevalent this situation is, just how much some women - many women - crave verbal compliments and verbally expressed sexual desire. Many men think that they are showing their love by "working hard," by "providing for their families," by "being loyal" and coming home every night. The type of woman I am talking about needs the attention on top of that. For some, it is not good enough even if they DO get that attention from their boyfriend/husband, they still will seek it out or fall for it from other men. In your case, the only difference, is that your wife appears to get off on getting that attention from any source - man or woman.


See this, see the bolded part? Yes some women are broken and since I once was one I know the difference. Women need continual validation.....PERIOD. This is the way MOST women are, not broken women, but most all women. 

Men just don't seem to get this and women seem to intuitively understand it. 

"I got my period and feel fat and bloaty..." Mention that to a woman and she'll respond with, "well you don't look bloated, you look great!"

"My hair is just not working I need to find a new stylist." A woman friend will respond with, "I think your hair just needs a trim, that cut is fabulous on you."

"These jeans are so friggin tight!" A woman friend responds with, "yeah but your ass looks luscious!"

This is normal every day talk among women, constant seeking, giving and receiving validation. Normal! Not Broken!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

By giving space to someone is like opening the door and saying "go ahead and do your thing". I've seen so many times on these threads that when that happens they watch their relationship go out the door and then they sit and wonder what the hell just happened.

By letting your GF work with this other woman is like waving a bag of candy to someone trying to lose weight. Sooner or later the temptation gets to them and the candy is consumed.

The problem you have is not knowing if your wife is really heterosexual, Bi sexual or gay and that feeling will always rear it's ugly head. MY advice is to polygraph her. Make an appointment and have her take the test. You need clarity on this because if there's trust issues and there will be. How do you know that if her other girlfriends are just friends or if there's something more? She planted the seed of doubt in your head and now you need to find out once and for all. What she did isn't fair and if she has Bi tendencies or is gay, she should have told you rather than finding out through a text message about a sex bra and kisses. Don't settle for anything but the truth. It's your life that will be affected.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> If you looked through the txt mssg on my cell you'd find a BUNCH of very similar flirty messages with my women friends. You'd even find a few of those women friends are lesbians or Bi. What you wouldn't find, even with the strongest truth serum is ANY desire on my part or THEIR part....they are just ways women support one another. "Hey beautiful! Just thinking of your sexy ass and wondering when we can get drunk and screw." Or, "he said what? What a d!ck, I'd totally do you even without makeup!" Or, "hot ass booty, heard someone say that and thought of you..."
> 
> Yes, sounds incriminating but it's just a way for women to give and receive the kind of attention we wish our mates gave.


This is you. This is not all women. When he looked through the messages on his girlfriend's phone, he found these messages with ONLY ONE woman. I'm assuming the original poster would have included the pertinent fact that his girlfriend did this with all her female friends if that was the case. And if this is something his girlfriend has done in the past with other female friends. By his omitting it, I'm assuming that this is a unique situation.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> @anon - read it again, she's admitted to having a interest in the OW. And this isn't some girl friend she's has for years, this is woman at work who is clearly pursuing her.
> 
> Two red flags for me here
> 
> ...


"Next date" means squat to me. See my other posts, this is normal girl talk.

Your second point is the ONLY piece of the whole OP post that is concerning. he made the leap to an emotional lesbian affair...I simply don't see that part and I do know quite a bit about lesbians (daughter, niece, numerous cousins and several friends are lesbians and we talk! ) 

So I totally discount the whole lesbian affair angle because I discount the whole emotional affair angle.

She deleted txt messages...again I don't see that as evidence of an affair, but it is evidence that what was in those messages was not something she wanted him to see. What we don't know and can't jump to conclude is why? I can think of a few reasons and number one being that they contained more flirty stuff that she already knew he took the wrong way.

The only part that is concerning is that she expressed her doubts about wanting to be with him. Considering she just had a miscarriage...I still am not seeing cause for break up, but cause for lots of deep honest talking, without jumping to conclusions, in which HE comes to the table knowing his own mind.

What will it take for him to feel secure in her love for him. What will it take for her to feel the kind of exclusive desire for him, getting all her NORMAL emotional needs met as she heals from this miscarriage!


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Secondly, she said she didn't know because she just had a miscarriage and she is overwhelmingly feeling complete disappointment. *It is not uncommon for women to -very unfairly I might add- lump him into the sense of overwhelming disappointment. Lets be honest, most men are not very good with emotional supporting a woman who just had a miscarriage*.


This is not what the original poster was told. In fact, his girlfriend told him the opposite.



Brian27 said:


> P.S. For the record *she said today that I'd been super supportive throughout the miscarriage *and that it wasn't my lack of support that caused this


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## Brian27 (Sep 1, 2013)

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I genuinely mean that, you've taken the time to read through the worst two days of my life where I have exposed myself emotionally in desperation for answers as there is nowhere else to turn. 

I will take everything into consideration

But for those of you that have attempted to squeeze your religious agenda into my problem, you really need to think whether your god would be impressed? Christianity claims to have a 'live and let live' to other religions doesn't it? Why would we get married if neither of us believe?

Also, even if that was somehow the cause of all this, does it help to tell someone this after the event? No, you're just furthering your agenda in a typically pushy way. I'm not American, I'd hazard a guess that you are? In my country we don't treat people on the verge of a break down so horribly. 

To those of you who were more supportive, whether you said I should give her a 2nd chance or not, thank you. 

I need some time to consider my options, but this process has certainly helped me to clear my mind.

I'm guessing I'm going to hell now for calling out the 'do-gooders'


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

.??? What religious agenda? I dont see any posts with anything like that here?


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## Brian27 (Sep 1, 2013)

google the definition of marriage, then come back.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Getting validation and support from a friend is not not an issue. Does your GF have other close friends who she has known longer to look to for support? Instead of confiding with a NEW coworker who is also a LESBIAN. 

Confiding with a New lesbian coworker for emotional support is equally as suspicious as a new male coworker because the both have the greater possibility of having other "motives". 

Just like there a POS om out there looking for married women there are POS LW looking for turning "straight" married women. "Emotional support" is one of the keys to opening that door.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dude if my old lady "didn't know" I would make the choice for her.

I would tell her what your boundries are and the consequences for when they are crossed.

Your trying to nice your way out of this and your old lady will see this as weak...right now she needs to see a confident man that won't tolorate her crap.

I would rather eat mac cheese for a year and give up cable then continue to alow my chick to work with someone that she had feelings for.

Dude your are not protecting your marriage and the first order of business is her quiting her job.

Your old lady is sh1tting were she eats and the consequences for that is lossing the job.

I'd expose this crap to her HR Dept...again another consequence for her betrayal.



Have you both got together to write up a NC letter?

This no contact letter should denounce the affair and the action that took place. This letter should denounce the other women and make a clear statement about you and how much better you are as a man and how wrong the OW is for getting between this relationship.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Brian27 said:


> google the definition of marriage, then come back.


Definition of MARRIAGE

1a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> 

b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock 

c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage 

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities 

3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross> 

---------------------
Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a socially or ritually recognized union or legal contract between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between them, between them and their children, and between them and their in-laws.[1] The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but it is principally an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. In some cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity. When defined broadly, marriage is considered a cultural universal. A broad definition of marriage includes those that are monogamous, polygamous, same-sex and temporary.

People marry for many reasons, including: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, financial, spiritual, and religious. Who they marry may be influenced by socially determined rules of incest, prescriptive marriage rules, parental choice and individual desire. In many parts of the world, marriages are arranged. Forced marriages are illegal in some jurisdictions.[2]

Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction. Marriages can be performed in a secular civil ceremony or in a religious setting via a wedding ceremony. The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved, and any offspring they may produce. In terms of legal recognition, most sovereign states and other jurisdictions limit marriage to opposite-sex couples or two or more persons of opposite gender in the gender binary, and a diminishing number of these permit polygyny, child marriages, and forced marriages. Over the twentieth century, a growing number of countries and other jurisdictions have lifted bans on and have established legal recognition for interracial marriage, interfaith marriage and most lately, same-sex marriage.[3] Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment. Polygamous marriages may also occur in spite of national laws.

During the past few decades, major social changes in Western countries have led to changes in the demographics of marriage, with the age of first marriage increasing, fewer people marrying, and many couples choosing to cohabit rather than marry.[4]


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Brian27 said:


> google the definition of marriage, then come back.


If you have such a problem with marriage why are you asking for help on "Talk About Marriage?" Are you surprised that a web forum that is openly billed as pro-marriage would be *shocked gasp* pro-marriage?

Have you ever called someone a hypocrite? Look in the mirror next time.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Brian27 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I genuinely mean that, you've taken the time to read through the worst two days of my life where I have exposed myself emotionally in desperation for answers as there is nowhere else to turn.
> 
> I will take everything into consideration
> 
> ...


ok wow...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Ugh what is it with British guys giving space lately? Cut it out! Where is that inner Brit who thumbed their nose at Germany 74 years ago? Weve had like ?4? lately who gave enough space for their women to screw other people.

2 pronged strategy

I would monitor her nights out. I think I would GPS the car before VAR atm. Space is a BAD idea. If you are on the same phone plan you can see how many texts etc. Play dumb boyfriend and no more confronts without HARD evidence.

SUPPORT HER. The miscarriage thing is messing her mind hardcore. Let her babble in your ear, about whatever, listen while holding her, and SAY NOTHING unless she asks you a direct question. Just let her talk. Dont solve any problem just let her unless she asks you to solve it. Let her talk and talk.

>'I'll save the new bra for our date. x x x' < very troubling. 

>Secondly, she said she didn't know because she just had a miscarriage and she is overwhelmingly feeling complete disappointment. It is not uncommon for women to -very unfairly I might add- lump him into the sense of overwhelming disappointment. Lets be honest, most men are not very good with emotional supporting a woman who just had a miscarriage.<

Disagree with anon on a lot of things but this paragraph is utter brilliance on her part, especially the last sentence.

Still the bra thing is very very very troubling.

Would have to have seen more of them but it looks like you didnt save them. 

Next time save them if she isn't underground already.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Ugh what is it with British guys giving space lately? Cut it out! Where is that inner Brit who thumbed their nose at Germany 74 years ago? Weve had like ?4? lately who gave enough space for their women to screw other people.


:iagree:

And then he got upset about a marriage comment and called some of us do gooders.

Let me spell it out for him.

Cheating is cheating.

Cheating is cheating if it hurts the partnership and hurts the family.

Cheating is cheating no matter if it is with a man-man, woman-woman or man-woman.

HM64


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

What happened to the other woman's girlfriend?

Contrary to popular belief, lesbians are not attracted to every woman on earth. Your wife could be leading her on for attention like she said though. Without seeing them interacting it's hard to say what the bra comment meant. I would forget the violent thoughts however as you won't be much of a dad from jail.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I lost my first LTR lover to a woman.

You need to out them at work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## camillaj (Aug 3, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I lost my first LTR lover to a woman.
> 
> You need to out them at work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You lost your LTR to a woman so the OP must be the same. :scratchhead:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

This section of the forum is for zebra hunting, and when they hear hoof beats, it must be a zebra. This section is also all about the prevalence of zebras, so the hunters here ten to think there are more zebras than horses and of course everyone has a personal story of zebras...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> This section of the forum is for zebra hunting, and when they hear hoof beats, it must be a zebra. This section is also all about the prevalence of zebras, so the hunters here ten to think there are more zebras than horses and of course everyone has a personal story of zebras...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Brian27 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I genuinely mean that, you've taken the time to read through the worst two days of my life where I have exposed myself emotionally in desperation for answers as there is nowhere else to turn.
> 
> I will take everything into consideration
> 
> ...












Jebus!! LOL.

Big (((HUG))) from this Murican to my stressed out British brother. You are right, her messages are probably only an issue if you were in America. Let this go. Muricans are homophobes. But you used Lesbian in the title and EA so maybe someone read that and this is a marriage site so maybe people considered that as well. They may have also been thrown off by the question mark at the end. Like you were asking for opinions and help. Some folks just do not get it. Try the ignore feature.

And the thing is that you are not married ... per se. But the key with this is not religious. It is that you have a child. So you have a family. This is close enough to warrant the advice you got.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Lesbian Afffair? Emotional Affair? What Should I Do?*



Anon Pink said:


> This section of the forum is for zebra hunting, and when they hear hoof beats, it must be a zebra. This section is also all about the prevalence of zebras, so the hunters here ten to think there are more zebras than horses and of course everyone has a personal story of zebras...


Just read this thread. Anon I completely understand your comments. I'm sure some women do speak to each other the way you and your friends speak to each other. My wife probably wouldn't talk to her friends in that way but other women do. Do you think that a good "test" for the OP is to determine whether his gf talks to more than one friend like this or is this one special in some way? If she communicates in the same flirty manner with other women then maybe the OP can work with her to get past this incident? But if his gf confines her flirty talk to this one particular woman maybe he has cause for concern? I do still feel her statement that she was confused regarding her feelings needs more attention. It is possible that the miscarriage has left her vulnerable and very hurt. If she has unresolved feelings they should be explored. It would not be that unusual for her to place unresolved blame on him even though he wasn't the cause. The mind is a very complicated instrument and trauma can lead to unexpected issues.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> Just read this thread. Anon I completely understand your comments. I'm sure some women do speak to each other the way you and your friends speak to each other. My wife probably wouldn't talk to her friends in that way but other women do. *Do you think that a good "test" for the OP is to determine whether his gf talks to more than one friend like this or is this one special in some way? *If she communicates in the same flirty manner with other women then maybe the OP can work with her to get past this incident? But if his gf confines her flirty talk to this one particular woman maybe he has cause for concern? I do still feel her statement that she was confused regarding her feelings needs more attention. It is possible that the miscarriage has left her vulnerable and very hurt. If she has unresolved feelings they should be explored. It would not be that unusual for her to place unresolved blame on him even though he wasn't the cause. The mind is a very complicated instrument and trauma can lead to unexpected issues.



I think it's something to explore, but not something upon which conclusions can be drawn. I think the emotional effects of the miscarriage have left her vulnerable, not just vulnerable to an affair, just plain vulnerable. Being flirtatious is the antithesis of vulnerability. Of course, there COULD be more to this, but it's more likely, IMO, there isn't. Being vulnerable is uncomfortable. Being strong is comforting. It stands to reason that being flirtatious gave her a feeling of strength and THAT is what she was attracted to. You can call it mental gymnastics  but I feel I should own that women are highly adept at the kind of mental gymnastics that leave men scratching their heads.

The only reason I ever post in the CWI thread is when I see a glaring incedence of men viewing a case study of behaviors and drawing a conclusion that, IMO, is not likely warranted. I don't wish to be argumentative, nor call members out, but just offer another likely conclusion.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


>


:rofl:

I stand corrected!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Lesbian Afffair? Emotional Affair? What Should I Do?*



Anon Pink said:


> I think it's something to explore, but not something upon which conclusions can be drawn. I think the emotional effects of the miscarriage have left her vulnerable, not just vulnerable to an affair, just plain vulnerable. Being flirtatious is the antithesis of vulnerability. Of course, there COULD be more to this, but it's more likely, IMO, there isn't. Being vulnerable is uncomfortable. Being strong is comforting. It stands to reason that being flirtatious gave her a feeling of strength and THAT is what she was attracted to. You can call it mental gymnastics  but I feel I should own that women are highly adept at the kind of mental gymnastics that leave men scratching their heads.
> 
> The only reason I ever post in the CWI thread is when I see a glaring incedence of men viewing a case study of behaviors and drawing a conclusion that, IMO, is not likely warranted. I don't wish to be argumentative, nor call members out, but just offer another likely conclusion.


I'm very glad you commented and I certainly value your input. When I said she might be vulnerable I wasn't just referring to infidelity. I know some women who were victims of child sexual abuse and they ended up acting out sexually which is the antithesis of what you might expect if you weren't familiar with common reactions to that trauma. That is what I was thinking here as well. And I also know that when people grieve, as no doubt she has over the loss of her unborn baby, sometimes there is misplaced blame that is present even though it may not be rational. Hopefully the OP and his wife are able to with through this and attack these issues head on.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> I'm very glad you commented and I certainly value your input. When I said she might be vulnerable I wasn't just referring to infidelity. I know some women who were victims of child sexual abuse and they ended up acting out sexually which is the antithesis of what you might expect if you weren't familiar with common reactions to that trauma. That is what I was thinking here as well. And I also know that when people grieve, as no doubt she has over the loss of her unborn baby, sometimes there is misplaced blame that is present even though it may not be rational. Hopefully the OP and his wife are able to with through this and attack these issues head on.


While it's true that *some* CSA survivors act out sexually they tend to be those who were molested by someone they trusted and had a relationship that also had a strong emphasis on an imbalance of power. A parent, aunt or uncle, close family friend, teacher, coach... Those molested by strangers or by an adult that they knew but didn't have a close personal relationship with are much less likely to act out sexually. 

Not giving a pass to unfaithful wives here!

To be honest, a history of CSA never entered my mind until you brought it up. But a history of CSA would make Mrs. OP HIGHLY uncomfortable with feelings of vulnerability. Something to think about...


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