# So frustrated with my marriage



## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

Hi all, I'm new to this forum so hopefully I'm posting in the right spot?
I'm 29 and my husband is 52. We have a one year old together and I have two older children from a previous marriage. 

I shouldn't complain, he's a good father to his son. But here I am laying wide awake in the spare bedroom with my one year old next to me while my husband sleeps in the master bedroom upstairs. I cracked it tonight and told him I was going to sleep in the spare bedroom and he just got this real stormy look on his face but said nothing except to come tell me an hour later to turn off the telly because it was too loud. I turned it down to very low but am staying in the spare room for tonight.

Crux of the matter: we don't have sex very often. I have a high sex drive and he has a low one. Except he seems to have enough of a sex drive to pursue other women online and to have even had an (emotional?) affair with one for five months of our almost two year marriage. As far as I know it wasn't physical, but I'm really not too sure as some of the emails they exchanged suggested it was physical too but he denies it ever got physical despite the fact I know for a fact they met up more than once (and in her email to him she said that she loved it when he pressed himself into her hard on one particular occasion they met up - sounds strangely intimate to me!). He was telling her so many lies about me, telling her we had split up and that I wasn't going to let him see his son. And they even talked about raising my son (my husband and my son) together!!! Can you imagine how upset I was to find that out?! I only found out in January because I was really suspicious and found hundreds of their emails in his account back and forth and spent weeks in hell afterwards. He wasn't really into me much sexually when they were having their affair and I thought it was because he kept saying was getting fat during pregnancy. I thought he wasn't interested in me and that I just wasn't doing enough or being a good enough wife. Instead it was because he was having an affair and all his energy was going into that. But he hasn't been sexually interested in me ever since his affair with her. He says he is, but he doesn't follow through, he doesn't do anything to show me he is. Instead he is always tired. Cranky. Says he is stressed out which he says every time I ask that it's because he's worried about the post? 

I'm so sick of the excuses. I have a lot more to stress about than he does, I have big stuff happening in my life that he ignores and pretends he is elsewhere or goes hides in his workshop when I actually really need support - when I am so distressed and can't turn to talk to anyone and he isn't even there for me then. And I run the house and do everything and yet he reckons he's so stressed out that he can't pay me any attention or be intimate at all or even just talk to me like a normal human being? Some days he can't even smile at me and yet will smile at other people? He is only ever helpful towards me when other people are around (like when his mother comes to visit). What have I done that is so wrong or so horrible? What is so repulsive about me? 

He had a high sex drive when we were dating but as soon as we moved in together and got married the sex gradually died away until now where although it's not completely sexless, some months we don't do anything. He rarely initiates but when he does it's not really pleasant for me because he gets a bit rough. I don't deny him EVER though because he's told me before that the only reason he doesn't have sex more often with me is because he "doesn't like to get knocked back" :scratchhead: . Strange because I've never knocked him back. Most of the time when we have sex I have to initiate. However most of the time when I initiate he doesn't want to do it. Says he is tired. Says he doesn't have the time (yet has time to do a million other things). Says he doesn't feel like it, has a headache and so on and so forth.

I feel absolutely worthless. I feel so ugly. He used to comment about how fat I was (when I was pregnant and right after birth), despite me never having actually been fat. I lost a lot of weight for him to stop him making those horrible comments and because I wanted him to love me again and to want to make love to him. I'm now significantly underweight and he rarely makes those sorts of comments any more, except if I eat chocolate or eat anything he thinks will make me fat. Which is ridiculous because I usually eat only one to two meals a day and only eat extra food when I'm starving hungry because I'm also breastfeeding. He will look at all the food on my plate and make comments, despite the fact I'm giving my one year old son food off of my own plate. 

I'm so angry with him. I know now he will sulk for days if not weeks because I'm sleeping in the spare bedroom tonight, but I'm sick and tired of being treated like this. He said tonight he is not a machine, yet am I a machine? I will still make the effort even when I don't feel like it. I even give him head when I have tonsillitis because he insists - how can he not understand that I go out of my way for him ALL of the time. Yet he treats going out of his way for me as though it's a huge burden and most of the time won't even try to make an effort?! I don't even have to have sex, he could just kiss me, or touch me but he won't even do that. Instead he sits in front of the telly drinking alcohol and gets on the bloody internet. I try so hard and he tries so little! 

Is there something wrong with me for wanting to have sex with him? 

I'm so sick and tired of his sulking and sullen stares whenever I tell him such and such is unacceptable. Like yesterday my 9 year old daughter was drawing a picture of a sun for a decoration for Christmas, and he tells her she's done a stupid picture and why has she made the sun cross-eyed. She proceeded to cry and chucked her drawing out and he told her she was being immature. I called him out on that because I'm sorry, but I think that it isn't ok to tell a child their drawing is stupid. And he rolled his eyes and said, "WHATEVER!" and sulked for most of the day... Should I have said nothing? He keeps doing that and I'm supposed to do nothing? Sulking that continues for hours/days/weeks if I ask something from him... like if I ask him to pay for something (instead of me having to pay for everything). Or if I ask him for sex, or suggest it, or whatever.

It's like pulling teeth. I'm so tired of it all. 

I'm pretty sure my infraction tonight will probably be punished too with him reaching out to another female. He's justified his online-dalliances by saying I wasn't being particularly loving or we were having an argument before. Also, he reckons all the other affairs he's had on other women in the past were only because their relationship wasn't good enough or he wasn't happy in the relationship or they weren't having a good time in the relationship. Which of course makes me worry. He assures me things are different between us, that he is a reformed man and learnt from his "mistake" earlier in our marriage. But can a leopard change it's spots? Can a 52 year old man who was a committed womanizer since his early twenties really change? AND I checked his FB page again yesterday after not having checked it for ages (spent months trying to trust him again and telling myself it would make no difference one way or another if I check because I knew he wouldn't stop). And once again I found sexual messages from him to other women. I know that at the moment he hasn't got anything physical going on with other women, because he's at home all the time (both him and I work from home). But he isn't being faithful online. 

Is it his age making his libido go low? And how can he be interested in other women if he's not interested in me? What is wrong with me that I can't seem to attract him? I have tried so many things and it seems to turn him off more even though he'll get a big grin at first. He doesn't have any impotency issues. I'm sure it's probably just going to get worse if it's an age thing. I'll probably have to be celibate for the rest of our lives except when he's feeling amorous. I just can't understand it. he doesn't want me to masturbate, in fact he makes horrible jokes if I do masturbate and he gets angry if I do, and yet he rarely does anything to make me happy in bed and rarely has sex with me.

I'm sorry for whinging and for the really long post. I'm just so lonely and don't know what to do any more. I can't imagine leaving him because we have a child together and I don't want to upset my children's lives. And he is a great father most of the time. He is fun to be around sometimes, and I do enjoy his company when he isn't raining on everyone's parade and making snarky comments. But I am very tired of dealing with all the BS that comes with it. I am sure I am to blame and deserve this ****, I'm just tired of it. I am tired of having to initiate and feeling like I'm just taken for granted all day every day.  I could even possibly turn a blind eye to his philandering ways/wandering eyes if only he would pay more attention to me and treat me like I was precious to him. I wish he could see his double standard, what with him dabbling on the side online and yet he would be furious if I did the same thing. Sometimes I even fantasize about hurting him by doing the same thing just to get him to see how much it hurts. But I can't do that to him, I just can't do it. 

I feel like I'm a bad person for moving rooms tonight, I just didn't want to sleep next to him and feel that deep emptiness all night long. At least being in a different room I can watch telly, go on the computer without having him get disturbed and tell me off for staying up too late. Fill this awful hole through watching Red Dwarf on repeat. He can stay up to 3am some nights on his computer with FB going ping-ping-ping with messages but how dare I watch a tv show I actually like or get on the computer and disturb him when he wants to go to bed! Being in another room feels freer. At least I don't have to lay there with a gaping aching heart. I don't want to ever suggest or ask or even subtlety hint at sex again. I'm so tired of being rejected, so tired of being pushed away and given the cold shoulder. 

I'm sorry, I haven't even really asked a question. Just hurting so bad and don't know how to even fix things. And really it's all just silly, he's still a good man despite it all and I do think he loves me.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He is avoiding whatever conflict and deflecting the situation, so you end up nowhere. How many relationships has he been in the past? There are some out there that will chase the high of a new relationship to get those magical feelings. Reason why his sex drive was probably up, because you produce more dopamine when in a new relationship. 

How long did you know him before you married? Usually when the infatuation stage ends for one person, their true personality shows. He may be just an a$$. Usually the infatuation stage last for a few weeks to a few years. At this time, he would have been on his best behavior. You really have to judge him from that point on. Your mixing your past image of him with this new image of him, which would be closer to who he is.

Now, looking at the current him, could you be in a marriage with him for the next 20 years. Also, your reaching your peak sexually, while he is on the decline. There are some things he can do to battle his decline, but he is never going to match yours. If you tried counseling, and tried talking, then your options are actions. If you really want to get a reaction, you may have to leave. Whatever his issues are, he will not face it until he is forced too. Even then, he may not change. Let him fight for you and your son for a change, and detach.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. 



Mr.Fisty said:


> He is avoiding whatever conflict and deflecting the situation, so you end up nowhere. How many relationships has he been in the past? There are some out there that will chase the high of a new relationship to get those magical feelings. Reason why his sex drive was probably up, because you produce more dopamine when in a new relationship.


He has had many many relationships in the past, I have no idea the exact number, but off the top of my head from the list of women he's mentioned by name he's been in at least 21 relationships. In all of them he said he had affairs. He said to me that he's never been in a relationship where he hasn't had an affair but assures me he won't ever have another affair on me again. For some strange reason I don't quite believe him. I think you are right on the money with him getting a high from new relationships. 



> How long did you know him before you married? Usually when the infatuation stage ends for one person, their true personality shows. He may be just an a$$. Usually the infatuation stage last for a few weeks to a few years. At this time, he would have been on his best behavior. You really have to judge him from that point on. Your mixing your past image of him with this new image of him, which would be closer to who he is.


We'd been going out for a year when we got married. Do you think he was only infatuated with me? 



> Now, looking at the current him, could you be in a marriage with him for the next 20 years. Also, your reaching your peak sexually, while he is on the decline. There are some things he can do to battle his decline, but he is never going to match yours. If you tried counseling, and tried talking, then your options are actions. If you really want to get a reaction, you may have to leave. Whatever his issues are, he will not face it until he is forced too. Even then, he may not change. Let him fight for you and your son for a change, and detach.


20 years of this sounds like a very long time and if I could do damage control to somehow limit the anguish I feel all the time, then I could possibly do it. He would never do counselling with me or have a third party to talk to us both at the same time. He has refused to even read any of the affair books I got for him and begged him to read. When I've tried to get him to read anything or talk to him about anything he gets angry. He tells me it's all my problem, everything is my problem, I have the problem and need to deal with it. I don't even think he even sees his affair as having been anything wrong or hurtful. Yet he has said he wouldn't be ok with me doing the same thing? He doesn't see anything wrong with our sex-life either. 

After he had his affair and I confronted him about it, he told me he might as well leave. He wasn't willing to fight for me, for our son, he rathered walk out the door than try. Instead I ended up breaking down into tears in front of him begging him to stay. I know it's pathetic of me. 

I tried detaching a few months ago because the situation was eating me up, I threw myself into a big project for my business other than being a wife and mother. And he got upset. He would follow me around as though all of a sudden he wanted my attention but the moment I gave him my attention he would go back to whatever he was doing. I'd be working in my office trying to get stuff done and he would come sit in there and start talking to me about his work and so I'd stop and look at him and listen and talk with him but the moment I did that he would get up and go back to his workshop. And he got worse as far as the snarky comments and irritability goes. However it was very good for me being so engaged in the project as I had some distraction.

Really, detatching is the only way I can cope with the situation, but I don't know if it would solve anything as far as our relationship goes. 

I don't know if he would fight for me, if I left, but I can picture him making things very difficult in terms of our son. I really don't want to disrupt my children's lives. 

Rereading over all this makes me realize just how pathetic I sound. Sorry.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Look up narcissistic personality disorder. This disorder is on a scale. He sounds like one.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

And yes, it does sound like the infatuation stage. Usually when this period ends, there is a noticeable personality shift. All those hormones that make you obssessive with that person and make you at your best ends. I bet he was really charming back then.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

He sounds like a real piece of work, sorry to be harsh. I can't stand guys that act this way, especially to caring, loving spouses like yourself.
The fact that you're sleeping in a different room and growing more distant and resentful of him is something you should think about?
Read my thread on "Don't stay for the kids" and you will realize them seeing him act this way and seeing you sleeping elsewhere, you are already causing them grief. Not blaming you, but the situation. Kids are very observant.
Everyone is different, but I just turned 50 and my sex drive is that of a 25 year old that sadly gets wasted. It sounds like his drive is only low for you.
Once spouses start emotional affairs, porn addictions or any other substitute attention that should be reserved for you, then they have already left the marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NPD.. sounds about right.

Your husband is a 52 year old womanizer who has cheated on every woman he has ever been in a relationship with. He's not going to change.

He's cheated on you. He is still cheating with online affairs. Even if he is at home, he is probably engaging in cyber or phone sex. Have you checked his phone bill to see who he's calling, texting and the length of the calls?

His not having sex with you has nothing to do with you. It's who he is.

There are some books that I think will help you.

Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them : When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men 

He has worked to destroy your self esteem so that he can control you. He needs you there because he needs someone to take care of him, pay the bills, clean the house, etc. He does not need you for anything else. That's pretty obvious.

The reason for the whirlwind romance and quick marriage is because he has learned that if he showed you his real personality you would dump him. And if he waited too long to get you trapped in a marriage, then he would not be able to keep up his fake personality much longer.

The infatuation period usually lasts 18-24 months. A person who is a player, an abuser, etc. will start to show their real personality after the infatuation high wares off. This is why you (generic you) should not marry anyone until you have dated them for two years.

Another thing about the infatuation period is that during this time you will not see the real person. Our brains produce large amounts of dopamine during the first 18-24 months of being in a new relationship. That's the brain chemical that cocaine increases. So we are high, like on a cocaine high, for those first 18-24 months. During that time our judgment is not working well. We forgive things that the other person does that we should not. All we care about is keeping the high going. It's nature's mean trick to get us to stay together long enough to bond and produce a child.

You will only see the true person he is after the 18-24 month period.

So now here you are, and the dopamine has gone back down to normal levels.. that high is gone. His high is gone too. So the two of you now see each other in a much more real and raw light.

You want a marriage and family but you don't like who he really is.

He wants that high. He needs a dopamine fix. And the only way he knows how to self medicate it so meet new women and get into that 18-24 months cycle again.

there is no fixing your marriage. He's not going to change. Believe me 52 year olds do not change. They only become more so themselves as the years go on. (I'm 65. I've seen this in everyone I know as they get older.) He will chase woman and mistreat you as long as he can. Then when he gets old and sick, he will not be able to chase women. But he will continue to mistreat you, expect you to support him and expect you to take care of him. 

That's not a lot to look forward to. 

My advice is for you to get out of this relationship as soon as possible. Do you have anywhere you can move?

Is the business you work at your business? Or is he involved in it as well?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Did I read right 21 relationships in 52 years of life? That's a new woman every two years since birth. And he cheated in every one of those relationships which means at least another 21 women so that means a woman a year since birth, at least. WOW. Why did you marry this man? I have heard the term serial cheater but I think we just found the poster child.

I really hate typing this but I feel that the possibility of him changing is next to impossible. He has sought out new women throughout his entire life and I would not expect it to stop now. He sounds severely broken when it relates to his ability to be in a long term devoted relationship.

I want to recommend therapy but I truly feel that it would be of little consequence. He may even hit on the counselor if it's a female.

I commend you for toughing it out but I feel, sadly, that expecting improvement in this situation is unrealistic. His behavior is so ingrained which makes change all but impossible. I fear that this will be your life as long as you are with him.

As far as the sex goes, you are two years into this marriage plus an additional year of dating so you have exceeded his lifetime average for time spent with any one woman already. He needs a new "fix" because you're old hat now.

If you can tolerate his behavior, since you say he is a good father, then so be it but I think you will grow even more frustrated and resentful. I wish you good fortune.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

He's been storming around the house the last hour. 

Very quiet during the day though. Although he "gave" me my Christmas present which was something he was going to put in the kitchen anyway, two old pots. Haha, such a joke! Better than nothing I supposed. He pointed to the pots on the table and said, "I forgot to tell you, that's your Christmas present." And I was like, "Thank you darling!" << me trying to sound enthusiastic. Then he said, "They're from the workshop. I put them in the kitchen yesterday and remembered I'd forgotten to get you a Christmas present." 

We barely talked today. I stayed positive despite being very tired from not being able to sleep until after my one year old woke up at 4am and then had his milk and went back to bed at 5am. I slept for two hours and then got up and did all the things I have to do. 
Now I'm here again in the spare bedroom unable to sleep AGAIN. Two hours of sleep is really not enough. 
So yeah, very quiet, rarely looked at me today. He got really angry at the dog and chucked him out the door. 
I sent him an email a little while ago, telling him how it's affecting me, all of it and how I'm not going to be carrying the torch for both of us any more. If he wants me and wants our relationship to work, than he'll do whatever it takes. And I'm going to do my best to stick to that. I'm preparing myself for the possibility that he will do nothing and carry on as he always has. If that happens than I'll have my answer won't I?

:-( 

I'd rather know though, than to keep trying and trying and trying and not know whether he really wants us. I feel so confused over all of this, half the time I think I'm just selfish and ungrateful and the other half of the time I feel sad and angry and frustrated.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Did I read right 21 relationships in 52 years of life? That's a new woman every two years since birth. And he cheated in every one of those relationships which means at least another 21 women so that means a woman a year since birth, at least. WOW. Why did you marry this man? I have heard the term serial cheater but I think we just found the poster child.


He had his first serious girlfriend when he was in his early 20s and got her pregnant and then she had an abortion and her parents made them break up. And then he had a series of relationships (short term) until he turned 39 when he got with a woman whom he got pregnant within weeks of them going out, and she also got an abortion. They lived together for 8 years and then eventually he left. And then since than he's had two relationships where he's promised the women the world but left one he left after three months because he didn't like her looming ex and he reckons her kid was a monster and the other he left after a year because "there wasn't any real chemistry". He had affairs during all of his relationships and even got a woman pregnant while he was in his 8 year relationship but the woman miscarried at 8 weeks and he says he was glad she miscarried because he didn't know how he was going to explain it to his partner. 

And then he met me and he asked me to go on a date with him and he was lovely and so charming and I thought, why not? I'd been single and celibate for years after I left my (violent) ex-husband. 

I didn't know about any of this before I started dating him or even when we got married. It's gradually come out in dribs and drabs. I didn't know he'd had affairs on other women until after I confronted him about the affair he'd had on me and that's when he told me he'd always been a Jack of the Lad but assured me he was now reformed.

One of the women he had a relationship with (for a year of living together), she was married when they first started seeing each other! She kept pestering my husband in the first weeks of us dating, calling at 3 in the morning and sending text after text and threatening suicide. She had left her husband to live with him, which I didn't know at the time because he told me she was some crazy woman who was obsessed with him. And of course stupid me believed him. Hook-line-sinker. She was the one right before me and yet he had me convinced she was some crazy woman who was stalking him, only to find out later that he had lived with her for a year and they had had a relationship and she was madly in love with him. She was only ringing/texting him a lot because she had seen me with him (which I didn't find out until after I married him) and she couldn't understand why he'd dumped her like hot coals. She left her husband for him! He's told me he had realized they couldn't continue living together (or having sex) because she didn't turn him on much any more and he had realized there wasn't any real chemistry between them.



> I really hate typing this but I feel that the possibility of him changing is next to impossible. He has sought out new women throughout his entire life and I would not expect it to stop now. He sounds severely broken when it relates to his ability to be in a long term devoted relationship.
> 
> I want to recommend therapy but I truly feel that it would be of little consequence. He may even hit on the counselor if it's a female.


I wouldn't see a female therapist with him, a male YES, but a female no, precisely for this reason. I don't trust him around women. I have four female friends (no male friends - he got rid of them a long time ago) and three of them he calls names, not to their face but in private and he discourages me from seeing them. The other friend is my neighbour and he doesn't mind me seeing her, but she is attractive so I always wonder if he would ever hit on her. I always have coffee at her house just so the contact between them is limited simply because I wouldn't put it past him. 

I don't think therapy would do anything, he doesn't even believe any of it is an issue, rather that I'm the issue. 



> I commend you for toughing it out but I feel, sadly, that expecting improvement in this situation is unrealistic. His behavior is so ingrained which makes change all but impossible. I fear that this will be your life as long as you are with him.
> 
> As far as the sex goes, you are two years into this marriage plus an additional year of dating so you have exceeded his lifetime average for time spent with any one woman already. He needs a new "fix" because you're old hat now.
> 
> If you can tolerate his behavior, since you say he is a good father, then so be it but I think you will grow even more frustrated and resentful. I wish you good fortune.



Thank you. I hope to find my way either out or through this, hopefully intact.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

I won't offer much advice as you do not seem to want advice, you want to vent...and that's O.K. I will say EleGirl is spot on, as usual.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> NPD.. sounds about right.
> 
> Your husband is a 52 year old womanizer who has cheated on every woman he has ever been in a relationship with. He's not going to change.
> 
> He's cheated on you. He is still cheating with online affairs. Even if he is at home, he is probably engaging in cyber or phone sex. Have you checked his phone bill to see who he's calling, texting and the length of the calls?


I don't think he's having phone sex, I pay the bills and it would go right up if he was doing that as he's on a plan. The plan is in his name, so I can't actually check the bills, he just gives me the b-pay number every month so I can pay it off - the plan comes with our internet package. He might be having cyber sex, I don't know. I have seen pictures other women send him of his body and pictures he has sent them of his <bits>, but only a few porn videos on his computer in his recycle bin and only one video a woman sent him of her masturbating without any sound. I don't go on his computer much any more as it causes me too much turmoil finding all the stuff he's written to these other women and what they write back. It really upsets me and then I find it difficult to function like a normal human being, so I just try to not think about it too much. Not to mention he keeps his computer with him most of the time and his phone almost all day every day. 

I've tried checking his text messages on his phone, but he deletes everything except my text messages to him. As though that won't raise my suspicions huh? 



> His not having sex with you has nothing to do with you. It's who he is.
> 
> There are some books that I think will help you.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I'll see when I can order them. 



> He has worked to destroy your self esteem so that he can control you. He needs you there because he needs someone to take care of him, pay the bills, clean the house, etc. He does not need you for anything else. That's pretty obvious.
> 
> The reason for the whirlwind romance and quick marriage is because he has learned that if he showed you his real personality you would dump him. And if he waited too long to get you trapped in a marriage, then he would not be able to keep up his fake personality much longer.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that information, I didn't actually realize there was a time period for infatuation. 

I still like him though/ love him, I just don't like/love everything he does/doesn't do, just as I'm sure he probably feels the same towards me. I believe love is a verb not just a feeling and I've always thought that through _loving_ you actually create the feeling of love and vice versa: commitment and honesty and doing loving and kind things and by giving of your time and energy and by valuing the other person. But probably that's just me being naïve. 

I haven't got anywhere to go, no family I can turn to and my friends are busy in their own lives. 

My business is separate from his, although I do some work for part of his business.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

woundedwarrior said:


> He sounds like a real piece of work, sorry to be harsh. I can't stand guys that act this way, especially to caring, loving spouses like yourself.
> The fact that you're sleeping in a different room and growing more distant and resentful of him is something you should think about?
> Read my thread on "Don't stay for the kids" and you will realize them seeing him act this way and seeing you sleeping elsewhere, you are already causing them grief. Not blaming you, but the situation. Kids are very observant.
> Everyone is different, but I just turned 50 and my sex drive is that of a 25 year old that sadly gets wasted. It sounds like his drive is only low for you.
> Once spouses start emotional affairs, porn addictions or any other substitute attention that should be reserved for you, then they have already left the marriage.


I'll have a look for that thread woundedwarrior. My eldest actually asked me this morning why I slept in a different room last night, more observant than I give them credit for.

Your last paragraph actually opened up my eyes today, I hadn't thought about it that way, that he has actually already left our marriage through his affairs. I've had so many confusing thoughts about it all over the months since finding out in January, and even at times wondered if I'm just selfish for being upset about his affair (the 5 month long affair) and the other online dalliances and the lack of sex that seems to be part and parcel of it.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> And yes, it does sound like the infatuation stage. Usually when this period ends, there is a noticeable personality shift. All those hormones that make you obssessive with that person and make you at your best ends. I bet he was really charming back then.


He was very charming. And he's now very charming with other ladies, even using the same words and phrases I thought he reserved for me with them. He was so romantic and thoughtful. Certainly on best behaviour. And wanted to have sex and lots of it.


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## keeping_on_forward (Dec 23, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Look up narcissistic personality disorder. This disorder is on a scale. He sounds like one.


I'll google that tonight. Thank you for the replies.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

As long as you continue to question or overthink everything that you deep down know is true, you will continue being a marionette. His push/pull antics are selfish and manipulative...and are meant to keep you within his control and ownership, yet he has no intention of doing anything to invest in the relationship. 

He is a sex/love addict that only cares about his needs being met and only views relationships based on how it makes him feel...and nothing to do about trust, commitment, intimacy, loyalty, support, and unconditional love. Once he doesn't "feel it" anymore, he seeks a fix elsewhere...and in fact, thinks it is perfectly justified.

I think you really need to ask yourself what is it that you are getting out of this situation that completely overrides your ability to get out. It sounds to me that he has your number...and knows what buttons to push to shut you down...and you just stuff it down over and over.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

keeping_on_forward said:


> Thank you for that information, I didn't actually realize there was a time period for infatuation.


Most people don’t know this. I wish I had earlier in life.


keeping_on_forward said:


> I still like him though/ love him, I just don't like/love everything he does/doesn't do, just as I'm sure he probably feels the same towards me. I believe love is a verb not just a feeling and I've always thought that through _loving_ you actually create the feeling of love and vice versa: commitment and honesty and doing loving and kind things and by giving of your time and energy and by valuing the other person. But probably that's just me being naïve.


Love is both a verb and a noun. 

As a verb, it’s the actions that we choose to act out in doing loving things for your spouse, your child, etc.

But it’s also a noun that we use to describe a feeling that we get. You say that you love your husband. When you say that you are talking about the feelings you have for him.

Humans are chemical engines. 

After that period of “infatuation” or what we often call romantic love, a couple settles into what we often call a more mature love. While there is often romance in mature love, there are not usually the crazy exhilarating feelings of the infatuation period. That’s because the high levels of dopamine have stopped. Instead our brains are not producing a lot of oxytocin and other bonding brain chemicals. These chemicals are why many people stay in an abusive relationship far too long.

When we are bonded to another person, as you are to your husband, it hurts to be away from them. We stay because we need to oxytocin fix that we get when they are close, when we hear their voice, when we make love.

Your brain also produces oxytocin (and other bonding chemicals) when you nurse your baby and when you are near the baby.

Sadly, your feelings of love for him are not based on the way he is treating you. They are based on your brain chemistry that has bonded you to him.

Let’s face it, if your feelings of love for him were solely based on the way he is treating you, you would not feel love for him. You would have feelings of anger, disgust, etc that would trump any feelings of love.

I want you to think something through here. Do you love him? Or do you love the idea of your perfect man? The man you thought he was when you married him? I don’t think it’s him you love. Sure you have feelings of being bonded to him because of your brain chemistry. But how could any woman actually love (have feelings of love) for a man who cheats on her with many women, who is lying to her constantly, who emotionally abuses her? 

The love you feel for him belongs to you. It does not belong to him. You choose who you give that love to. You have complete control over who you choose to gift your love to. Why are you giving your love to a cheating, abuse cruel man? Take back your love. Take back your actions of love. He does not deserve your gift of love.


keeping_on_forward said:


> I still like him though/ love him, I just don't like/love everything he does/doesn't do, just as I'm sure he probably feels the same towards me.


What the above paragraph tells me is that you do not love yourself. You think that the way he treats you is all that you are worth. You are teaching him that this is all you are worth by putting up with it. 

A person is only as good as the worst thing that they do. 

He said that he forgot to buy you a Christmas gift, so he gave you some old pots. And what did you do? Nothing. You went off to bed defeated. 

We teach people how to treat us. So you have now taught him that giving you garbage for Christmas is ok. 


keeping_on_forward said:


> I believe love is a verb not just a feeling and I've always thought that through _loving_ you actually create the feeling of love and vice versa: commitment and honesty and doing loving and kind things and by giving of your time and energy and by valuing the other person. But probably that's just me being naïve.


How is it working with you creating the feelings of love in him with you doing this? It does not seem like it’s working at all. Instead, with all the love you are giving him he’s giving you abuse in return. Does he value you? No. Does he return your love? No. Does he care for you in return? No.

This is a man who learned a long time ago that he can manipulate women who are in love with him. He has complete distain for any woman who loves him. He sees it as a weakness that he can exploit.

Stop and think about this. If you had a dog who bit you every time you fed the dog, how long would you keep that dog around? Well your husband bites you with abuse, cheating and distain in return for every bit of love you do for him. How are his actions of abuse and cheating any different than the dog biting you every time you feed the dog? Other than the fact that what your husband does, does not draw physical blood.. only emotional ‘blood’?



keeping_on_forward said:


> I haven't got anywhere to go, no family I can turn to and my friends are busy in their own lives.


Have you told any of your friends what is going on in your marriage?


keeping_on_forward said:


> My business is separate from his, although I do some work for part of his business.


Does he pay you for the work you do in his business?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

keeping_on_forward,

Before I post further to you, I want you to know that I'm not trying to be mean to you. I'm not beating up on you.

I've been through something similar, not exactly the same, but similar. I stayed way to long. 

Since then I have been through a lot of counseling. I've read a lot. I've learned a lot. 

So now I'm trying to give you support and energize you to do that you need to do.

You say that your husband will not go to counseling. I suggest that you go to individual counseling. Find and organization that provides counseling to people who are being abused. You are being abused.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

keeping_on_forward said:


> He's been storming around the house the last hour.


This is a tactic used by abusers to get control over their target. You are his target. He lost some control last night when you slept in the other room. He needs to get control back. So he is going to escalate his display of anger. This will put you even more so into the “walking on egg shells” state.

Male apes jump up and down, make threatening noises, beat their cheats and fling sh!t to intimidate. When your husband is storming around the house like this.. think of the image of an ape doing this to intimate.

Your husband wants you to be afraid of him. If you fear him, he feels in control.



keeping_on_forward said:


> Very quiet during the day though. Although he "gave" me my Christmas present which was something he was going to put in the kitchen anyway, two old pots. Haha, such a joke! *Better than nothing I supposed. * He pointed to the pots on the table and said, "I forgot to tell you, that's your Christmas present." *And I was like, "Thank you darling!" << me trying to sound enthusiastic. * Then he said, "They're from the workshop. I put them in the kitchen yesterday and remembered I'd forgotten to get you a Christmas present."


Better than nothing? Then you thanked him. You have got to be kidding me. Don’t you realize that what he did was to insult you? 

He did this on purpose. He purposely did not go out to get you a present. The message is you are not worth him spending his time, energy and money on. Today is Christmas Eve. He could still go out and get you a present. It’s a purposeful insult. 

And then you thank him?? By you thanking him, you have proven him right.. you are not worth his time, energy and money. You are only worth insulting, getting garbage as presents, and kicking around. 

You have taught him by thanking him that you will accept any mistreatment, any garbage gift, and be thankful. Really now? Are you really worth this little?

I don’t think you are worth that little. You need to NOT teach him that you are not worth anything. So what are you going to do?

Did you buy him anything for Christmas? Are you going to still give him the presents?


I was married to a guy who did not give me presents. Now he never gave me trash like old pots. But still he never gave me presents. But he always expected me to give him presents. Before Xmas and his birthday he’d start telling me what he wanted. He would even tell me before Xmas, my birthday, Valentine’s Day that he was going to the store that day to buy me a gift. Then he would never go. Then on the day (Xmas, birthday, etc), after he got his gift, he’d tell me that he forgot or did not have time to get me a gift. 

So after a couple of years of this, he did his usual thing of telling me what he wanted and I acted like I was listening. Then when the day came I did what he did .. I told him that I was sorry but I did not have any time to get him a present. Oh well. After a year of me pulling this on him… he bought me presents for every birthday, every Christmas, etc. I changed my behavior ad taught him that it was not OK to ignore me and not give me gifts. It was especially not OK since he always made sure that I knew what he wanted. (He always wanted expensive things, like new stereo systems, new computer, etc.)

Are you going to give him the things you got him for Christmas? I suggest that you donate them to a charity. And you tell him that you just did not have time to get him anything. Shoot wrap up those pots. When he opens them, tell him that he obviously loves them so you could not possibly accept them as a gift. You want him to have something that is so precious.




keeping_on_forward said:


> We barely talked today. I stayed positive despite being very tired from not being able to sleep until after my one year old woke up at 4am and then had his milk and went back to bed at 5am. I slept for two hours and then got up and did all the things I have to do.
> Now I'm here again in the spare bedroom unable to sleep AGAIN. Two hours of sleep is really not enough.


Take care of yourself. Your child needs you. You need you.


keeping_on_forward said:


> So yeah, very quiet, rarely looked at me today. He got really angry at the dog and chucked him out the door.


What a charmer.


keeping_on_forward said:


> I sent him an email a little while ago, telling him how it's affecting me, all of it and how I'm not going to be carrying the torch for both of us any more. If he wants me and wants our relationship to work, than he'll do whatever it takes. *And I'm going to do my best to stick to that. *I'm preparing myself for the possibility that he will do nothing and carry on as he always has. If that happens than I'll have my answer won't I?


You telling him that you are doing your best to stick to that, you told him that you will stick around no matter what he does. You gave you a mixed message.

Yes you will have your answer. What is your deadline for when you will end this if he is not struck with the lightening of truth that will turn him into a kind, loving man, husband and father?



keeping_on_forward said:


> I'd rather know though, than to keep trying and trying and trying and not know whether he really wants us. I feel so confused over all of this, half the time I think I'm just selfish and ungrateful and the other half of the time I feel sad and angry and frustrated.


You already know. What you have seen is who he is. 

What you are confused about is that you so want him to be the person he portrayed himself to be instead of who he really is. 

You are not selfish or ungrateful. Why do you believe that you have to put up with any kind of treatment that he throws at you? You need support. You need others who you can talk to who help you see that you are worth so much more.
Something else for you to consider. Your children are watching the way he treats you. Your children will learn one of two lessons… they will learn that being like him gives them power, so they will grow up to be like him. Or they will learn that they, like are, are a victim and they will end up in a relationship like you are in. Is this really what you want for your children? Really?

Why not model healthy behaviors to your children instead? Teach them that they do not need to be the abuser or the victim. Teach them that they are worth so much more than that. You do this by kicking him out and divorcing him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

keeping_on_forward said:


> The plan is in his name, so I can't actually check the bills, he just gives me the b-pay number every month so I can pay it off - the plan comes with our internet package.


If you have not seen the bill, how do you know that it would go up if he spent a lot of time on the phone? Many phone plans are for unlimited calls and texts. I have unlimited calls, texts and data for a flat rate.

A good rule to have is to never pay a bill that you do not have the actual bill in hand.

How are your finances structured? Do the two of you have one joint account? Or separate accounts?

What percentage of the joint income do you earn?

What percentage of the bills, groceries, etc do you pay out of your income?

Do he pay you for the work you do for his business?


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