# What effort should women put in



## Girl_power

I don’t want to hijack someone else’s thread, so I am creating this one. 

I understand that us women forget that we are partners, and we often make taking care of everyone and everything and the house our #1 priority. We think that if we have sex, then that should be enough. I know that I was guilty of this when I was married. 

So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


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## Affaircare

@Emerging Buddhist ... ya wanna answer this one? Cuz Inquiring Minds want to know!!


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## ccpowerslave

Girl_power said:


> So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


Here goes... (flame suit)

Don’t let the checking account get overdrafted. It’s one thing if you’re broke, but if you have money the entire time and you’re supposed to pay attention to it and it overdrafts...

Don’t get mad at me if I do your chore because you didn’t do it. Ex. I have no clean socks so I do a load of socks but I forget to put a Tide sheet in. I am doing it because I know you’re busy not because I think you’re dropping the ball or doing a bad job.

Enthusiastic sex as much as can be managed within reason and considering whatever personal issues she has ex. monthly cycle, sleep/time needs, etc... Staying up to binge watch Netflix? Come to bed and screw first then do it.

At least sometimes wear the lingerie.

If I go above and beyond in one of my normal duties like cooking meals, say thank you. Ex. If I spend 3h making a dish and it was good, say “Wow that was good thank you.”

Split chores (dishes in our house) should be acknowledged by the other person when they do them.

Put the phone down. Get rid of it when we’re doing something together and consider leaving it behind completely.

If I do something I completely hate and you know I hate it, like hanging out at grandpas house all day taking about identifying types of plants and he only has 3 beers and he’s cheap and won’t share them and I can’t get away to go buy beer so I have to take the full force of it. The least you can do in this case is make it up to me with amazing sex.


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## ccpowerslave

Girl_power said:


> We think that if we have sex, then that should be enough.


Actually come to think of it speaking only for myself if I was like fully sexually satisfied all the way every day that would take care of 90% of it because the rest of it would drop so much in priority. Ex. Wife acts like a total ***** all day but gives me a lingerie show and then works it out I think worst day ever erased.

Any other act of extreme kindness and thoughtfulness has a high hill to climb to be anywhere near as impactful.

The only one I can think of in recent memory was my feet were freezing from standing barefoot in cold rainwater pumping it off of a concrete slab. My wife noticed my feet were frozen and she put socks in the dryer for me and told me to put them on. I think that is maybe the nicest thing anyone ever did for me and I would rate it higher than a BJ.


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## ConanHub

Blowjobs. Of course...😏


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## Andy1001

Keep yourself in shape and be ready at five am each morning.


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## Cici1990

Andy1001 said:


> Keep yourself in shape and be ready at five am each morning.


Is the second part a joke? If not, I’m laughing anyway.


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## Andy1001

Cici1990 said:


> Is the second part a joke? If not, I’m laughing anyway.


No joke. We are early risers in my house. 
Well I am anyway 😈


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## joannacroc

Andy1001 said:


> Keep yourself in shape and be ready at five am each morning.


Jesus. 5am???


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## Mr. Nail

Having abandoned all hope, therefore having no idea what would make me happy, 
I offer instead a flip.
As a man, Would it be ok to you as a woman if my entire relationship maintenance activity could be summed up in two words "Have sex"? Do you think that would be "enough"?
Now I will admit that for up to 3 days after sex I feel pretty good about the relationship, but *most *of the time I do not feel that the relationship is healthy. 

There have been books written on this. In general if you want to have a successful relationship you need to understand and fulfill all of your partners emotional needs. Yes, sex is one of them. Yes a good blowjob is a shortcut to a happy man. But that is what it is, a stand by. It doesn't replace the relationship. It makes the man forget what he is missing.

Sexual frustration has given me enough time to discover what all I'm missing.


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## Mr. Nail

About the 5 a.m. at the risk of being told off yet again.
Mrs, Nail works 3 or 4, 12 hour shifts each week. On days she works her alarm wakes her at 4 a.m. She leaves by 5. I work out sometime between 5:30 and 8.
-but-
On days she doesn't work . . . . well yesterday she put on pajamas for dinner. 
Now I understand being tired. But it's kind of hard to believe when you rolled over at 2 a.m. to see her book light.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Affaircare said:


> @Emerging Buddhist ... ya wanna answer this one? Cuz Inquiring Minds want to know!!


Uh... is this another thread about sex or a more general "what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy" happy?


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## SpinyNorman

Bring me beer when I'm watching the tube.

But seriously, what I expect from my W is what I expect from me.


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## SpinyNorman

When The Muppets, Shel Silverstein and Candace Bergen combine their wisdom, pay attention.

Video Put Another Log On the Fire


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## Jung_admirer

When you agree to a relationship with anyone, you are agreeing to support them:
Spiritually
Physically
Intellectually
Emotionally 
Socially
When the relationship is to a child, the support looks more like nurturing. When to a partner, it's more about communication, compassion and vulnerability. Books like 'The 5 Love Languages' try to pin some of this down. The act of loving is sharing all that you have towards all that is needed by another. Think about this: " I will share this life's journey with you and I will have your back without falter. " This is what every man (and woman) wants with a partner; whether they know it or not is entirely another matter.


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## dubsey

actually pay attention to how the dishwasher gets loaded so I don't need to redo it every.single.time.


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## ConanHub

I forgot steak...


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## Twodecades

Andy1001 said:


> No joke. We are early risers in my house.
> Well I am anyway 😈


"early riser"...is that a pun?


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## Max.HeadRoom

Mr. Nail said:


> About the 5 a.m. at the risk of being told off yet again.
> Mrs, Nail works 3 or 4, 12 hour shifts each week. On days she works her alarm wakes her at 4 a.m. She leaves by 5. I work out sometime between 5:30 and 8.
> -but-
> On days she doesn't work . . . . well yesterday she put on pajamas for dinner.
> Now I understand being tired. But it's kind of hard to believe when you rolled over at 2 a.m. to see her book light.


book light? 

this comment goes in line with the OP question.

i believe that the bedroom should be used only for two purposes; Sleep n Sex. both are needed.

if one can not sleep we get up and go elsewhere to read/tv/computer or phone


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## Max.HeadRoom

I have been with three different women long-term for over 1 year; ok one was barely a year but..

what i needed was different with each.

i want to feel that we each have the respect of the other
i want us both to believe that the division of work in the relationship is fair
i want to hear about possible issues early
i want words and actions to aline

and while controversial...

i feel secure in my relationship but only sex makes me feel loved


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## NTA

Andy1001 said:


> Keep yourself in shape and be ready at five am each morning.


Would you like a box lunch with that?


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## Enigma32

Stay reasonably attractive.
Cook food often.
Have a decent sex life
Don't nag too much about mundane things
Don't seek out the attention of other males
Be loyal


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## Bobby5000

I think telling someone you value them and being someone you can turn to if there are challenges in life is important. Let's say you're having challenges at work, people are speculating that there could be layoffs, and your relationship with your boss is decent but not great. Your wife could say, you're doing a great job, you've provided or help provide during the last 10 years, we appreciate all you've done, and I can spend a few minutes trying to help you solve this if you want my help, otherwise you always have my love. 

Or this can happen, WHAT???, don't tell me that you're in danger of getting fired, I hope you understand this would be a horrible time, you know that we need to allocate a minimum of $10,000 for Ginny's college tuition. But why are you having a problem, I told you over and over not to trust Jack, but no listens, now you have a problem, well, all I can say if you get fired that will be a big problem. Having someone who is supposed to support you pile on the aggravation and problems is what you want to avoid.


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## heartsbeating

Girl_power said:


> I understand that us women forget that we are partners, and we often make taking care of everyone and everything and the house our #1 priority. We think that if we have sex, then that should be enough. I know that I was guilty of this when I was married.
> 
> So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


I don't relate to your opening sentiment - we don't have kids or family members in the mix - and I don't feel that I forget that I'm a partner. And I have a bit of an aversion to the word 'should' particularly as individual experiences and priorities will vary, however, I do think this is a good thread topic and thank you for raising it.

On the weekend, I initiated a conversation with my man basically about how he felt I was as a partner / where we're at, and across the elements of our daily life as a type of check-in... or performance review . I'm equipped to hear it straight-up. I'll provide input based on some of that discussion and from his perspective. Being supported; we both feel supported by the other. The home duties he views as a shared responsibility and while we're not on top of some aspects, he feels it's fine and going well between us. He's liked that I've been picking up more cooking duties. Physical affection is highly important to him. HIGHLY. And he's loving that aspect of our relationship; physical affection and sexual intimacy. He's feeling good with our other daily life things. Oh, except when I set several alarms in the morning to wake early and then keep hitting snooze instead of getting up - as it interrupts his sleep - but not a big deal. There wasn't anything that I wanted to discuss; for me, it was more about listening. However, despite feeling overall supported by me, he did bring up 2-3 topics where he wanted more of my involvement and support. I completely got where he was coming from and absolutely doable from my perspective. With one of those topics, he expressed his interpretation of why I've not been involved like he needs, and he was bang on with it; so we talked through that, it's a fair call, and I agreed to get more onboard. Basically, physical affection and being engaged and supportive with certain things that impact us is of high significance for him.

That was more of a serious, yet positive, conversation. The other night, he was very complimentary (and granted, following intimacy and unprompted haha) whereby he relayed various aspects that are part of his attraction towards me such as, and paraphrased to preserve the specifics, _how_ I interact with him physically - physical affection and touch; that I apparently always smell good; aspects of physical appearance; his respect for my achievements and mind and such; and he considers me to be _just cool_ based on what I'm individually into and his observations of how I interact with others. So, this is some of what maintains attraction for him, and which translates to our dynamic. You mentioned 'effort' and now from my own perspective, much of what he notes I would perceive as just being who I am... yet, that's not quite it... as no doubt the dynamic between us continues to shape both of us. And yet, while still being your own person. Wait, what? haha... Perhaps the 'effort' (which doesn't feel like effort) is listening and hearing the other person without assumptions or the need to defend a position - it doesn't necessarily mean agreeing - but certainly being open to hearing and understanding and respecting the experience and perspective of our spouse. I hope this makes some kind of sense.


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## hamadryad

You know...in this area it's women that need all the bells and whistles from their men...They need to be strong, successful, wealthy, have a big dyck, and be great in bed, be confident, and self assured, etc...

For most guys, all they really want is for their women to not blow up like a tick on a dog's ear, not cut their hair short and don't fart in his presence....lol..

But seriously, so many women complicate this....Don't be a nagging pain in the ass...Look good and keep a nice body(age appropriate of course)...maintain some level of sexiness and femininity....don't let the corporate world harden and masculinize you so much that you lose that part of you that makes a man attracted to women in the first place...


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## heartsbeating

By the way, it's not lost on me that my post is the longest amongst the succinct answers of the guys 

You're welcome.


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## SpinyNorman

heartsbeating said:


> By the way, it's not lost on me that my post is the longest amongst the succinct answers of the guys
> 
> You're welcome.


Surprised no men have posted "Talk as much as you can."


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## heartsbeating

SpinyNorman said:


> Surprised no men have posted "Talk as much as you can."


LOL!


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## frusdil

SpinyNorman said:


> Surprised no men have posted "Talk as much as you can."


Hahaha!


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## RebuildingMe

Enigma32 said:


> Stay reasonably attractive.
> Cook food often.
> Have a decent sex life
> Don't nag too much about mundane things
> Don't seek out the attention of other males
> Be loyal


This sums it up for me. I’d add:
Don’t be jealous unless there is something to be jealous about
Give more time each night to your man than your phone and your sister’s birthday party for her 3 year son or social media posts for people you haven’t seen in a decade
Don’t put being a mother ahead of being a wife
Don’t spend more money then you can afford
Don’t call your mother everyday, twice a day
Communicate your issues and don’t let any arguments go unresolved
Mix it up in the bedroom, starfish sex should be a minimum 
In honor of another thread, let your man touch your breasts. It’s a turn on for us
If porn is used, watch it together occasionally 
Don’t trade your man in for some random that is hotter and makes more money. Stay committed to what you have


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## sokillme

Girl_power said:


> I don’t want to hijack someone else’s thread, so I am creating this one.
> 
> I understand that us women forget that we are partners, and we often make taking care of everyone and everything and the house our #1 priority. We think that if we have sex, then that should be enough. I know that I was guilty of this when I was married.
> 
> So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


Ill go.

(I will write this just thinking of my wife because she does this stuff)


If you know I have earned your respect me show me and everyone else.
Trust me enough to be 100% authentic. I want to know you.
Give your affection freely, I think for most men it calms us down.
Be the best you and expect the best me. It's good to say no sometimes or tell me that you are unhappy when it's reasonable or that this isn't good enough, again when it's reasonable.
I want a wife that pushes me, but you can do a lot of that by being the best you and expecting me to live up to that.
Make nurturing part of your MO.
Make our home part of you because I like coming home to a place that feels like you, again that grounds me.
Be my teammate, be eager to help me in my adventures and eager to tell yours so I can help you.
No more you or I - our.

As far as sex goes -

My response would be, be present. Be a partner. Think of it like a dance, if people are dancing it sucks if only one person is doing the moves and the other is going through the motions.

The other thing I would say and I say it to men on here all the time. Learn about his sexual nature, and play to that. In general it's different then yours, but you can work it the same way a good husband works it. This has to be a priority.

@*heartsbeating,* now mine is more succinct, it even has bullet points!


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## heartsbeating

sokillme said:


> Ill go.
> 
> (I will write this just thinking of my wife because she does this stuff)
> 
> 
> If you know I have earned your respect me show me and everyone else.
> Trust me enough to be 100% authentic. I want to know you.
> Give your affection freely, I think for most men it calms us down.
> Be the best you and expect the best me. It's good to say no sometimes or tell me that you are unhappy when it's reasonable or that this isn't good enough, again when it's reasonable.
> I want a wife that pushes me, but you can do a lot of that by being the best you and expecting me to live up to that.
> Make nurturing part of your MO.
> Make our home part of you because I like coming home to a place that feels like you, again that grounds me.
> Be my teammate, be eager to help me in my adventures and eager to tell yours so I can help you.
> No more you or I - our.
> 
> As far as sex goes -
> 
> My response would be, be present. Be a partner. Think of it like a dance, if people are dancing it sucks if only one person is doing the moves and the other is going through the motions.
> 
> The other thing I would say and I say it to men on here all the time. Learn about his sexual nature, and play to that. In general it's different then yours, but you can work it the same way a good husband works it. This has to be a priority.
> 
> @*heartsbeating,* now mine is more succinct, it even has bullet points!


I'm so proud of you. 
And I ought to take a leaf out of your book... bullet points: what a concept!


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## CharlieParker

Girl_power said:


> what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


We discussed this tonight, as we're on a medical hiatus. Effort is an other word for enthusiasm. So just be enthusiastic. (Hooker red lipstick never hurts either)


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## Divinely Favored

Take care of each other. Daddy loves Baby Girl and Baby Girl loves Daddy. My LL are physical and then words of affirmation. I tell her often she brings order to my life, as she is very orderly. She is awesome at decorating and flower beds, i tell her often she gives my life beauty and gives my world color. 

Physical intamacy goes a long way, as i feel loved and emotional connection through enthusiastic love making. Don't nag or talk at/down to me....it is disrespectful and drains my loving feeling toward her.(has not done this in years). 

We both stand at the door if other is leaving, sending our love messages in our own ways, until the other is out of sight. 

Many times she meets me at the door or comes out to my truck when i arrive, happy to see me/missed me.(i reciprocate)

She will have me sit in recliner and bring me a glass of iced tea, take my boots/shoes off, while she finished dinner. After dinner if her feet hurt i gladly get massage oil and massage her feet. 

Like wise i will wake her for work with bach rubs and light massages from feet to neck. Then put her robe on for her and have her coffee ready beside the couch where she sits each morning.

She is a Biblically submissive wife and defers to me on a lot, but i value her input greatly before a decision is made. She is my co-pilot, i know she can fly the plane, but she defers to my judgement/ability.


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## In Absentia

A sandwich girl!


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## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> A sandwich girl!


You mean, sex at night then sex in the morning? I've heard that called sandwich sex...


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> You mean, sex at night then sex in the morning? I've heard that called sandwich sex...


Nope...  it's something Power_Girl said in another thread... I shouldn't really keep bringing it up. But your interpretation is pretty appealing and... delicious...


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## Mr. Nail

SpinyNorman said:


> Surprised no men have posted "Talk as much as you can."


Alright, I'll take it up. Many women provide all of the intimate conversation men can handle. Some women have certain words and topics they wont breach. But in my situation, I'd just like an answer that contains more than one syllable. (and that one syllable isn't "fine") Honestly We talk about work because she will participate in sentences. 
Intimate conversation, should be conversation that includes feelings, and has some depth. Not passing gossip or scheduling. Traditionally it is a woman's high emotional need. I think that it doesn't rank high to men because they have no trouble getting it. But it could just be me. 

As I mentioned above there are good books on emotional needs. You may have a man that needs very little conversation. Or you may have a man that needs a lot of quiet time. But you need to be aware of what his needs are and how they are being met. If your man likes to receive a few hmmm's and an oof as his conversational diet, I may have a good match for him!


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## BioFury

Keep yourself in shape, and don't even own underwear that isn't cute.

But on top of those general rules of thumb, tune into him. If he's important to you, then let that show. Make him a priority. Ask him if there's anything you can do that would make him happy. If he feels safe with you, and he feels you genuinely care, he'll tell you.


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## Married but Happy

joannacroc said:


> Jesus. 5am???


5 am is great, and you can have a refreshing post-coital nap!


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## aaarghdub

My list…


Raising self esteem and not comparing yourself to other women 24/7
Cultivate the sales-side not the contract-side of the marriage meaning nobody cares about a contract if the product is awesome and terms are reasonable. If you come off as a union rep citing the contract 24/7 (what it says and doesn’t say) and looking for contract breaches that’s a relationship killer.
Confidence. It’s much easier to be insecure and watch for your man to validate your insecurity than it is to cultivate his “I have it so good why would I even look at another woman?” ethos.
Be a good steward of your man’s talents and time. Do you take for granted he can replace a toilet or fix your car or is that just his job?
Don’t invalidate genuine compliments. The worst is offering a heartfelt true compliment to your partner and have it dismissed, invalidated or think it is part of some ulterior motive. Your woman not believing you is the worst.
Not self-sabotaging and reinforcing the notion we made a mistake choosing you. Like hearing you hate yourself or we’re doing something because we have to. Eventually we’ll believe you.
Suppressing any notions of entitlement or expecting to get what your friends have (new car, big house)
Getting into and understanding his passions. Women often do this at first but drop it once the deals done. Then it’s suddenly annoying. Guys want a woman they can share a passion with.
Continually presenting something worth desiring. The worst is when a woman just arbitrarily decides she doesn’t have to anymore and you must accept her for who she was hiding all along.
Nurturing and being a good steward of your man’s desire versus it being a pain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## frenchpaddy

judging by what i see on facebook many men have the idea of the ideal wife as dressed sexy with endless wish to seduce their man super looks and then it gets strange as the young guys seem to want older women and older men seem to want women that look like they are under age , some seem to love a woman that is dressed like a hooker and others nude as long as no other man sees them , and men like to have their food handed to them and beer or drink , and they want a woman that likes a lot of sex until they get a woman that likes a lot of sex ,


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## Hope4us55123

Girl_power said:


> I don’t want to hijack someone else’s thread, so I am creating this one.
> 
> I understand that us women forget that we are partners, and we often make taking care of everyone and everything and the house our #1 priority. We think that if we have sex, then that should be enough. I know that I was guilty of this when I was married.
> 
> So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


I agree sex is not enough. I also think that every man is different. I don’t believe I need a lot to know that I’m appreciated. Here’s what my wife does to make me feel happy:


she brags about me to our kids
she always asks me what I want, even if she disagrees
she puts up with my peculiarities


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## Al_Bundy

Be a sail, not an anchor.

If I'm working "too much" either shut up about it or go get a guy who lays around on the couch all day. If you can't endure the work then you don't deserve the spoils. A lot of women will complain about a guy working but they never complain about the luxuries that work brings.


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## Rob_1

frenchpaddy said:


> *and they want a woman that likes a lot of sex until they get a woman that likes a lot of sex ,
> *





This! so true. But still, Sex, more, sex. Did I mentioned sex?


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## CountryMike

Rob_1 said:


> This! so true. But still, Sex, more, sex. Did I mentioned sex?


That seems like a good problem to have.


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## Divinely Favored

I mentioned to my wife once, someone saying about keeping their men happy was to "keep their belly full and their balls empty"? She took that to heart and i am a happy man.

Read "Proper care and feeding of husbands" by Dr. Laura. All soon to be wives should get that book at engagement.


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## joannacroc

Hope4us55123 said:


> I agree sex is not enough. I also think that every man is different. I don’t believe I need a lot to know that I’m appreciated. Here’s what my wife does to make me feel happy:
> 
> 
> she brags about me to our kids
> she always asks me what I want, even if she disagrees
> she puts up with my peculiarities


That is adorable. Sounds like she does a lot to make you feel appreciated.


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## aine

hamadryad said:


> You know...in this area it's women that need all the bells and whistles from their men...They need to be strong, successful, wealthy, have a big dyck, and be great in bed, be confident, and self assured, etc...
> 
> For most guys, all they really want is for their women to not blow up like a tick on a dog's ear, not cut their hair short and don't fart in his presence....lol..
> 
> But seriously, so many women complicate this....Don't be a nagging pain in the ass...Look good and keep a nice body(age appropriate of course)...maintain some level of sexiness and femininity....*don't let the corporate world harden and masculinize you so much that you lose that part of you that makes a man attracted to women in the first place..*.


Seriously? But men don't have a problem with spending the big bucks that comes from their women working in the corporate world. If you want your woman to be a stepford wife then make sure you provide adequately for her so she doesn't have to work her rocks off in the corporate world, just saying. ........................ (i am sure that ruffled your feathers, much the same way as your statement ruffled mine).


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## Enigma32

frenchpaddy said:


> judging by what i see on facebook many men have the idea of the ideal wife as dressed sexy with endless wish to seduce their man super looks and then it gets strange as the young guys seem to want older women and older men seem to want women that look like they are under age


People always want what they can't have. Young men are around young women all the time as they mature and those ladies can get boring after a while. Once the world opens up to them, they meet all these older ladies that seem interesting. I dated some older ladies when I was younger. Younger men usually don't lust after the older ladies for very long. As men start to get older we start to miss our youth. Those younger ladies start to look really good compared to women our own age. A lot of those relationships don't seem to last either if the age difference is too significant.


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## hamadryad

aine said:


> Seriously? But men don't have a problem with spending the big bucks that comes from their women working in the corporate world. If you want your woman to be a stepford wife then make sure you provide adequately for her so she doesn't have to work her rocks off in the corporate world, just saying. ........................ (i am sure that ruffled your feathers, much the same way as your statement ruffled mine).


Which men are you talking about?...(fat men sitting around spending wives corporate earned "big bucks")...never seen or heard of it..

Because the couples I know, corporate or not, *his* money is looked at as "their" money, while her money is seen as "hers"....Yeah....seriously....  ...."Big bucks"??....none of these women make a fraction of what their husbands make....And spare me the story about how you or your girlfriend make more than your drunk and lazy husbands that can't hold a job....I don't know any of them, either...

Ruffle feathers? nah...lol..


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## Cici1990

aine said:


> Seriously? But men don't have a problem with spending the big bucks that comes from their women working in the corporate world. If you want your woman to be a stepford wife then make sure you provide adequately for her so she doesn't have to work her rocks off in the corporate world, just saying. ........................ (i am sure that ruffled your feathers, much the same way as your statement ruffled mine).


I’m more concerned about his comments regarding how most men don’t want their women to fart or cut their hair short, tbh. I’ve done both and idgaf what my man thinks about it.


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## ccpowerslave

Cici1990 said:


> I’m more concerned about his comments regarding how most men don’t want their women to fart or cut their hair short, tbh. I’ve done both and idgaf what my man thinks about it.


I wouldn’t want my wife to cut her hair shorter than shoulder length. Obviously she can do what she wants and maybe it would look good but I would never pick it. 

If I was going to change my facial hair or do something radical like shave my head I would ask her first.


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## hamadryad

Cici1990 said:


> I’m more concerned about his comments regarding how most men don’t want their women to fart or cut their hair short, tbh*. I’ve done both *and idgaf what my man thinks about it.


Not the least bit surprised...


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## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> I wouldn’t want my wife to cut her hair shorter than shoulder length. Obviously she can do what she wants and maybe it would look good but I would never pick it.
> 
> If I was going to change my facial hair or do something radical like shave my head I would ask her first.


I understand that many men prefer long hair on women. That is no surprise and nothing new. Still, I’d never ask my husband before doing anything I wanted to do with my hair....I’ve had many different cuts and colors. I know his favorites on me and sometimes I go back to that for his pleasure, but I still do whatever I want, which has included cutting it all off...and my husband then encouraged me to go even shorter because he thought buzzing it a la Demi Moore in GI Jane might actually be kind of hot.


----------



## Cici1990

hamadryad said:


> Not the least bit surprised...


Yep, and I’m about the size of a giant engorged tick right now too.

I can’t understand how there are women who have never farted in front of their partners before. They’ve probably ripped huge ones that woke their husbands up while sleeping after holding them in all day. I know women like this exist but I wish they’d just liberate themselves and pass gas in their own homes without running to a special secret spot to do it.


----------



## frenchpaddy

I find the shaved head on women very sexy , it brings out their eyes , 


Cici1990 said:


> I understand that many men prefer long hair on women. That is no surprise and nothing new. Still, I’d never ask my husband before doing anything I wanted to do with my hair....I’ve had many different cuts and colors. I know his favorites on me and sometimes I go back to that for his pleasure, but I still do whatever I want, which has included cutting it all off...and my husband then encouraged me to go even shorter because he thought buzzing it a la Demi Moore in GI Jane might actually be kind of hot.


----------



## Cici1990

frenchpaddy said:


> I find the shaved head on women very sexy , it brings out their eyes ,


Some women look absolutely stunning and so much more chic and stylish with the right short haircut. I don’t claim to be one of these women, necessarily, but when I want a more high fashion look I normally take some length off.


----------



## LATERILUS79

hamadryad said:


> Which men are you talking about?...(fat men sitting around spending wives corporate earned "big bucks")...never seen or heard of it..
> 
> Because the couples I know, corporate or not, *his* money is looked at as "their" money, while her money is seen as "hers"....Yeah....seriously....  ...."Big bucks"??....none of these women make a fraction of what their husbands make....And spare me the story about how you or your girlfriend make more than your drunk and lazy husbands that can't hold a job....I don't know any of them, either...
> 
> Ruffle feathers? nah...lol..


There are definitely low quality women out there that are like this. Some women are going to fall into the stereotypes, just like there are men that will fall into the male stereotypes. It's up to each individual to push the trash to the side to find the good ones. 

I will agree that our modern culture (at least in western countries) has unfortunately been teaching girls that they can "have it all". This of course is ridiculous. Everything in life is a give and take. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. What is scary to me is that our current culture is causing many women to live unhappy lives compared to where women were 30-40 years ago. It's not fair to them. It's definitely something I'll be closely focusing on as my daughter grows up - thankfully, my wife (her mother) is an excellent role model on living a balanced, fulfilling and happy life. It really comes down to making a priority list. What matters the most? Career? Relationship? having children? Raising children? Everything is a give and take. My wife and I have been professionals in our careers since day one. We got together during a time right before our culture lost its freakin' collective mind (even though things were going that way). 

Everything with us has been 50/50 since day 1. It was important to me to make sure we were on the same page on this one. We both are for equality between men and women - but not the modern definition of equality which is equality until inconvenient. We both have thought it would always be important to be a dual income household. We do this together. Household chores would always be split 50/50. We knew we always wanted children. I left it up to my wife to decide on her own whether she wanted to continue working after we had children. Again, give and take. If she doesn't work, then I will have to pick up the slack with income. The positive is that our children would have their mother 24/7. If my wife continues to work, then daycare gets to "raise" our children during the day which requires us to put in extra work/time into being their parents when we get home from work. The positive here being that our earning potential is much higher with both of us working. It also takes the pressure off me from doing something I didn't want to do. I'm an engineer. I'm a nerd. I'm also introverted. I like being in my little corner at work and I don't want to be bothered by people. I make a great salary, but in order for me to move up the corporate ladder, I'll eventually need to be a manager to an engineering team. I can't think of something I would like to do less. I don't like speaking with people and I can't imagine managing people. It would drive me crazy. Thankfully, my wife continues to work which allows me to stay in my nerdy little corner and solve my math problems. Also, it was only a matter of time (and it happened last year) that my wife finally passed up my earning capacity. She is now the bread winner for the first time in 19 years by a few $K. While my male lizard brain has a hard time coping with this, logically, we both knew this would eventually happen and there's nothing wrong with it. It's great because her 401K can finally start to pick up steam after making a crap salary for so long. 

Sorry for the sidetrack there. I'll try to answer the original question.

Sex.

That was easy.


Ok, ok. I'll be more specific. I feel like I have to initiate sex the majority of the time. It would be nice if my wife stepped up to the plate more often. She wouldn't be rejected, and she knows this. I'm HD, I'm always ready to go. In addition, it would be nice if she attempted to rev up my engine a little more. Get me in the mood - sure, I'm in the mood all the time, but come over to the couch. Sit next to me. Put her arms around me. Start kissing my neck. Nuzzle her nose on my ear. You know, stuff like that. I'm well aware that there are PLENTY of women that do these kinds of things. I'm not an idiot. However, I know a lot more women that are like my wife that don't. So, if you are a woman that doesn't do these kinds of things to get your man's attention, maybe try it out. I bet he would like it.

Secondly, it would be nice if my wife put in more effort into my hobbies. Again, I know plenty of women that share the same interests as their men. What I say here would not apply to them. My wife and I happen to share approximately ZERO similar interests. It's not a huge deal, but I feel like I'm always going out of my way to either find something for us to do together or trying to understand/like what she does. It would be super awesome if she tried sometime to enjoy something that I like to do. Lately, she has been putting in some mild effort to do that, but seriously, it would be awesome for women to just "jump in" with both feet. Maybe you like what your man does. Maybe that activity you are trying just isn't for you. That's ok too. I think it is the effort that counts. I think your man would super appreciate the effort that you want to try to do something together that he really enjoys.


----------



## Evinrude58

Be a teammate on saving and spending, being responsible, sharing chores fairly , wanting sex as much as I do, wanting to do things and go places together, not giving silent treatment, being a safe partner and not cultivating friendships with other men, and cooking a decent meal regularly. That’s a chore and I agree on sharing it, but I want something with at least as much effort to prepare as I put in.

I suppose I just want a plain old balanced relationship


----------



## Al_Bundy

Evinrude58 said:


> Be a teammate on saving and spending, being responsible, sharing chores fairly , wanting sex as much as I do, wanting to do things and go places together, not giving silent treatment, being a safe partner and not cultivating friendships with other men, and cooking a decent meal regularly. That’s a chore and I agree on sharing it, but I want something with at least as much effort to prepare as I put in.
> 
> I suppose I just want a plain old balanced relationship


Agreed. Complementary to each other. And while I would say the cooking should be more on her, that's because when something goes bump in the night, it'll be on me to check it out. When someone starts to complicate your life, time to move on.


----------



## Mr. Nail

These are great things that haven't been brought up much in this thread.



LATERILUS79 said:


> I'll be more specific. I feel like I have to initiate sex the majority of the time. It would be nice if my wife stepped up to the plate more often.


Well maybe this one has. It gets plenty of discussion in the forum. The one thing I always find missing from the discussion is the reason why the non initiating partner can't initiate.
I know in my case I got tired of rejections, and there are members here who have tracked rejection rates. But eventually I got over myself and just went back to initiating. I don't think I'm very good at it any more, but beside my failings my rejection rate is easily under 25% . In the end I guess I'd like to see one solid reason why women can't initiate.



LATERILUS79 said:


> it would be nice if my wife put in more effort into my hobbies.


This one surprised me but I have seen it succeed and I have seen it failed. Women who have an interest in their husbands hobbies are included, communicate more, and tend to be closer to their husband. Wives who just ignore all that "man stuff" tend to be aloof, distant and optional to their partner. 
What I see from women's hobbies is that there are project designs and supplies that tie in to their husbands interests. So she can participate in his interest in her own way. 

There could be whole threads on each of these ideas.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Mr. Nail said:


> These are great things that haven't been brought up much in this thread.
> 
> 
> Well maybe this one has. It gets plenty of discussion in the forum. The one thing I always find missing from the discussion is the reason why the non initiating partner can't initiate.
> I know in my case I got tired of rejections, and there are members here who have tracked rejection rates. But eventually I got over myself and just went back to initiating. I don't think I'm very good at it any more, but beside my failings my rejection rate is easily under 25% . In the end I guess I'd like to see one solid reason why women can't initiate.
> 
> 
> 
> This one surprised me but I have seen it succeed and I have seen it failed. Women who have an interest in their husbands hobbies are included, communicate more, and tend to be closer to their husband. Wives who just ignore all that "man stuff" tend to be aloof, distant and optional to their partner.
> What I see from women's hobbies is that there are project designs and supplies that tie in to their husbands interests. So she can participate in his interest in her own way.
> 
> There could be whole threads on each of these ideas.


Good points.

I’m not complaining that my wife doesn’t initiate enough. I’m answering the original question “what more can women do”. Ok then. I’m always game for self improvement. Man or woman. Doesn’t matter. If a woman is looking to do more, then I would like more initiating. More seduction. Show me as a man that I am still desirable (especially when I put in effort to be desirable). Will I divorce my wife over this? Absolutely not. I love her. We have lots of sex these days. I know my rejection Rate used to be painfully high, but I got used to it. Haven’t bothered looking at it these days since I get rejected less than half of my advances.

as for women not initiating more, I’ve always assumed that they fear rejection. Not all women, but I think this happens to the majority. My logic behind my thought process is the SMV. Women are born with a very high SMV and men are born poor. Men learn over time what it takes to be desirable to women and they have to work for it. Being turned down is just part of life. Most women on the other hand do not need to go looking for men. The men will come to them. They have their pick of the litter (most of the time. There are always the exceptions). As such, they aren’t used to rejection and that can hit their ego hard. I would probably equate it to telling a man he is acting weak, or is too short or his d1ck is too small. I would assume rejection to a woman would strike her hard at her core.

but being in a long term relationship or marriage, those boundaries should start to come down. It should be new and exciting to chase after her man. Seduce him. Get his attention…. But that’s easier said than done. I get that. So kudos to the women that fight through those thoughts or fear of rejection and go for it.

I also agree with your thoughts on hobbies. It also works in reverse. My wife is into crafting. I’m not necessarily, but there are enough elements to it that spill over into my hobbies that I went and looked for those things in her crafting hobbies. I made it in a way that was fun for me and still be able to share it with her - which in turn made it more fun. I only ask that she try to do the same thing with me. If she doesn’t like something, then she doesn’t like it. I’m just looking for effort.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> If I do something I completely hate and you know I hate it, like hanging out at grandpas house all day taking about identifying types of plants and he only has 3 beers and he’s cheap and won’t share them and I can’t get away to go buy beer so I have to take the full force of it. The least you can do in this case is make it up to me with amazing sex.


I hate it when that happens !😆


----------



## ccpowerslave

DownByTheRiver said:


> I hate it when that happens !😆


I know right! I have gotten way better about it. I used to get really grumpy or just avoid the situation all together. I also found grandmas stash of cheap red wine. That smoothed over many a family gathering for me.


----------



## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> I know right! I have gotten way better about it. I used to get really grumpy or just avoid the situation all together. I also found grandmas stash of cheap red wine. That smoothed over many a family gathering for me.


At least tell me it’s not Franzia in the box!


----------



## ccpowerslave

Cici1990 said:


> At least tell me it’s not Franzia in the box!


No it’s random stuff in dusty bottles. My own collection at home is ~3 cases of mostly mid tier Napa region reds with the odd bottle of something good like Quintessa. I don’t really drink reds much though. The Quintessa I have for special occasions. The rest of it I’m not really sure I should probably get rid of it.

Champagne and sparkling I can’t keep in stock. Right now I am out completely.

At the start of the pandemic my wife was buying Mumm sparkling by the case for me. That is one thing I’m happy she stopped doing.


----------



## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> No it’s random stuff in dusty bottles. My own collection at home is ~3 cases of mostly mid tier Napa region reds with the odd bottle of something good like Quintessa. I don’t really drink reds much though. The Quintessa I have for special occasions. The rest of it I’m not really sure I should probably get rid of it.
> 
> Champagne and sparkling I can’t keep in stock. Right now I am out completely.
> 
> At the start of the pandemic my wife was buying Mumm sparkling by the case for me. That is one thing I’m happy she stopped doing.


I don’t drink wine much myself, so when I do I’m at least going to drink the good stuff.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> I know right! I have gotten way better about it. I used to get really grumpy or just avoid the situation all together. I also found grandmas stash of cheap red wine. That smoothed over many a family gathering for me.


You're going to have to start carrying a pocket flask.


----------



## Torninhalf

DownByTheRiver said:


> You're going to have to start carrying a pocket flask.


Exactly what they are made for!


----------



## ccpowerslave

Torninhalf said:


> Exactly what they are made for!


The last time I used one was at a corporate party many years ago. I knew they were just going to have beer but it was a family day thing with kids running everywhere and I was thinking I need more than beer to get that much edge smoothed out.


----------



## LATERILUS79

You California folk are too fancy for this backwoods midwesterner. All your fancy wines and sh!t. Put me on a river in an inner tube with some Busch and I'm good to go.


----------



## ccpowerslave

LATERILUS79 said:


> You California folk are too fancy for this backwoods midwesterner. All your fancy wines and sh!t. Put me on a river in an inner tube with some Busch and I'm good to go.


Don’t get me started on dinner forks.

When I was with some self-described country folk who had to fly last weekend (no knives) one of them wanted to cut something and were like “Hey CCP you have a knife on you?” I dug around in my pack and pulled out my trusty Benchmade. The dad took one look at it and goes oh... Benchmade, be careful with that son, it’s sharp. He then went into a story of how he uses his to cut up and skin game. I use mine to open mail. It was a bonding moment between country and city folk.


----------



## hamadryad

Cici1990 said:


> Yep, and I’m about the size of a giant engorged tick right now too.
> 
> I can’t understand how there are women who have never farted in front of their partners before. They’ve probably ripped huge ones that woke their husbands up while sleeping after holding them in all day. I know women like this exist but I wish they’d just liberate themselves and pass gas in their own homes without running to a special secret spot to do it.


I can understand it.....easily....

Most people that have an ounce of self dignity and class don't break ass intentionally in front of other people....It's fvcking gross and a complete turnoff...There is nothing "genuine" or liberating about it...


----------



## LATERILUS79

hamadryad said:


> I can understand it.....easily....
> 
> Most people that have an ounce of self dignity and class don't break ass intentionally in front of other people....It's fvcking gross and a complete turnoff...There is nothing "genuine" or liberating about it...


its gross. It’s a turn off.

and yet, I’ve never been able to grow the f*ck up. It is still hilarious to me. I want to feel embarrassed for saying that, but I don’t. Farting is hilarious and both my wife and I laugh at each other in bed when it happens.

then again, I did just say if I’m in the mood for some alcohol I’d like to be floating in an inner tube down a river with some cold Busch.


----------



## hamadryad

LATERILUS79 said:


> its gross. It’s a turn off.
> 
> and yet, I’ve never been able to grow the f*ck up. It is still hilarious to me. I want to feel embarrassed for saying that, but I don’t. Farting is hilarious and both my wife and I laugh at each other in bed when it happens.
> 
> then again, I did just say if I’m in the mood for some alcohol I’d like to be floating in an inner tube down a river with some cold Busch.


Oh...don't get me wrong...I am not some tight ass that can't have some fun and act like an idiot,,,,,I do it frequently... 😎 

I dunno, though...I don't want one of these women that thinks its funny to fart in my face while I am sleeping...They'll be the same women with armpit odor and skid marks on their underwear...No thanks...I prefer my women be a lot more dignified and classy.....It's just not the least bit sexy....for me it's a total boner killer...And to be fair, I don't do it in front of women, (or anyone, really)either...


----------



## Cici1990

hamadryad said:


> Oh...don't get me wrong...I am not some tight ass that can't have some fun and act like an idiot,,,,,I do it frequently... 😎
> 
> I dunno, though...I don't want one of these women that thinks its funny to fart in my face while I am sleeping...They'll be the same women with armpit odor and skid marks on their underwear...No thanks...I prefer my women be a lot more dignified and classy.....It's just not the least bit sexy....for me it's a total boner killer...And to be fair, I don't do it in front of women, (or anyone, really)either...


Just because a woman doesn’t clinch her butt cheeks to the point of near explosion because she’s in the same room as her husband of 25 years doesn’t mean she’s the type of woman who is going to fart in her man’s face and laugh about it, have BO, or be wearing skid marked underwear. Beginning of a new relationship, sure. But with the person you should feel most comfortable with in the whole world? I’m not going to get up and run to another room or make myself uncomfortable if I really have to fart when I’m alone with my husband in my own home. I certainly have never farted in his face and laughed about it and my armpits smell clean, thank you very much.

I’ll give you this much - if you also don’t fart in front of her then that’s fair. I have just heard of many women who refuse to ever pass gas but their husbands are allowed to bomb the house with their farts and that’s not fair.


----------



## heartsbeating

I had a spontaneous moment years back on the way to the hair salon, that I'd get a big chop. I was going for that Natalie Imbruglia 'Torn' look; went from long hair to very short which was met with his wide-eyed surprise. He's of the opinion that if I want to try it, have at it... it's only hair, while also expressing he didn't really dig it. Years later, I completely changed from being a brunette. Mentioned it to him beforehand, and again he was 'If that's what you want to try, give it a go, but I like your dark hair..' I gave it a try, then changed back again a bit later.

Anyway, these days I have a very different mindset to this simple topic of hair, and I absolutely give more weight to what his preferences are. He's the one that I want to keep attracted, after all. And while attraction occurs deeper than hairstyle, I feel a deeper alignment to his preferences in terms of my physical appearance as part of that. The flip-side is when he gets his hair cut, I suggest/ask not to have too much off (as I like it a bit long). If he suddenly came home with a shaved head, sure that's up to him, but he knows that I like and am attracted to his look with the slightly long hair, therefore, I might feel a bit 'And that says what?' ...strange but true. I only mean when there's choices, unrelated to any health aspects.


----------



## heartsbeating

And yes, sometimes bodily things occur that are funny. However, we'd both try to avoid doing this in front of the other when possible. There's a comfort level in the laughter. Add to that, we also close the bathroom door. We figure there's gotta be some aspects of 'mystery'  ...while I know to some friends that is a weird concept as they'd be doing their bathroom business while the other is there chatting to them. We don't roll like that.


----------



## Cici1990

I like having short hair sometimes and my husband likes sucking d!ck sometimes, so I guess we just don't care about these things. 

And we also leave the bathroom door open. 

Heathens!!!!


----------



## heartsbeating

What's with posting about short hair and then switching it to your husband giving a bj?

I don't get where that's coming from. Did my personal view about hair and such result in you feeling the need to defend how you live? I would hope not, given that I'm sharing about my own experience and relationship, without critiquing what another does.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Cici1990 said:


> And we also leave the bathroom door open.


I used to leave the bathroom door open for many years and I read something that said not to do it. I think it had something to do with you wouldn’t do it when you’re in the dating/NRE phase so you should not do it later. It made sense so I stopped a few years ago.


----------



## Cici1990

heartsbeating said:


> What's with posting about short hair and then switching it to your husband giving a bj?
> 
> I don't get where that's coming from. Did my personal view about hair and such result in you feeling the need to defend how you live? I would hope not, given that I'm sharing about my own experience and relationship, without critiquing what another does.


No, it wasn’t directed at you specifically. I guess I just hate the notion that women need to have long hair and no natural bodily functions to be considered attractive and feminine. You are somehow seen as less feminine if you have short hair and I am sure in the eyes of some people a man is considered less masculine if he enjoys sucking d!ck.

And I was just sort of making fun of my husband and I by calling us heathens. We are obviously not as refined as some people here and that’s fine. I was just poking fun at us, not critiquing anyone else’s choices.


----------



## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> I used to leave the bathroom door open for many years and I read something that said not to do it. I think it had something to do with you wouldn’t do it when you’re in the dating/NRE phase so you should not do it later. It made sense so I stopped a few years ago.


I heard that too but never stopped hahaha. Maybe I’m rebelling against my upbringing and my mother who is the most proper woman and sent me to etiquette school as a little girl. Oh I can really put it on like a proper lady when I need to.


----------



## heartsbeating

Cici1990 said:


> No, it wasn’t directed at you specifically. I guess I just hate the notion that women need to have long hair and no natural bodily functions to be considered attractive and feminine. You are somehow seen as less feminine if you have short hair and I am sure in the eyes of some people a man is considered less masculine if he enjoys sucking d!ck.
> 
> And I was just sort of making fun of my husband and I by calling us heathens. We are obviously not as refined as some people here and that’s fine. I was just poking fun at us, not critiquing anyone else’s choices.


Ah so it was like a shock tactic to attempt to challenge some views and be heard, it seems.

Sure, there could be debate about the construction of gender. That's not the intention of this thread though.

Some are providing their personal views of what is important to them as far as their marital dynamic, and what they value / appreciate / prioritize with their spouse. I understand to a point where you're coming from. However, despite my long ramblings in this thread, the question was focused to the husbands here. And even if one doesn't like or agree with those responses, doesn't invalidate the stance. Within my own marriage, my views and alignment (not to be misunderstood as being simply agreeable) with my husband have adjusted, even with small things, over time.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Cici1990 said:


> I heard that too but never stopped hahaha. Maybe I’m rebelling against my upbringing and my mother who is the most proper woman and sent me to etiquette school as a little girl. Oh I can really put it on like a proper lady when I need to.


MAD LAD!!!

Generally I know correct manners and can behave appropriately when necessary.

I can eat to left and drink to the right, set the table properly, and I even know where to put the cake fork. My father would make us set the table correctly and eat properly for most dinners and we always had to eat at the dinner table with all the TVs turned off.

I like doing things properly from time to time, it shows respect.


----------



## Enigma32

heartsbeating said:


> Anyway, these days I have a very different mindset to this simple topic of hair, and I absolutely give more weight to what his preferences are. He's the one that I want to keep attracted, after all.


Lucky guy. Also, I think this sort of thing speaks volumes about what kind of partner you are when it comes to things other than your haircut.


----------



## LATERILUS79

heartsbeating said:


> I had a spontaneous moment years back on the way to the hair salon, that I'd get a big chop. I was going for that Natalie Imbruglia 'Torn' look; went from long hair to very short which was met with his wide-eyed surprise. He's of the opinion that if I want to try it, have at it... it's only hair, while also expressing he didn't really dig it. Years later, I completely changed from being a brunette. Mentioned it to him beforehand, and again he was 'If that's what you want to try, give it a go, but I like your dark hair..' I gave it a try, then changed back again a bit later.
> 
> Anyway, these days I have a very different mindset to this simple topic of hair, and I absolutely give more weight to what his preferences are. He's the one that I want to keep attracted, after all. And while attraction occurs deeper than hairstyle, I feel a deeper alignment to his preferences in terms of my physical appearance as part of that. The flip-side is when he gets his hair cut, I suggest/ask not to have too much off (as I like it a bit long). If he suddenly came home with a shaved head, sure that's up to him, but he knows that I like and am attracted to his look with the slightly long hair, therefore, I might feel a bit 'And that says what?' ...strange but true. I only mean when there's choices, unrelated to any health aspects.


😆 😆 😆 😆
I remember that song! I was in college at the time. She was pretty damn cute, but I didn't care for the music. 

Every so often my wife gets a shorter hair cut. Like your husband, heartsbeating, I would get that wide eye look. She would look at me pissed off and say, "You don't like it".

I could be as straight faced as possible and this woman can read my mind. I have no reason to lie. It's not like it's going to work anyway. I just always tell my wife the truth. No. I don't like your short hair. She'll ask why. I then say because I don't. I don't like short hair and your hair is super beautiful. Why would you not want to have more of a beautiful thing? Simple logic as far as I am concerned. She doesn't follow my logic and gets more upset. I always finish with, "Look. If you want short hair, then knock yourself out. It's your decision. Why are you asking me for my opinion.... especially when you already know the answer?". That typically ends the conversation and she walks away mad. Whatever. It always grows back. 

She also learned a long time ago not to ask the question, "Does this outfit make my a$$ look fat?". 

Yes. Yes it does. 

If you don't want the truth, it would be in your best interest not to come ask me. I never understood this. Most men would say this question is a trap. Whatever. I'm a bull in a China shop when it comes to those kind of traps. I'm gonna bust right through it! I just finished explaining that I can't lie to this woman. Whatever my face is telling her, she knows exactly what I'm thinking. 


As for farting in each other's faces, we don't do that. Come on. I may be rough around the edges here, but I'm not trailer park trash. Nobody wants a case of pink eye. NOBODY. Geez.


----------



## Cici1990

heartsbeating said:


> Ah so it was like a shock tactic to attempt to challenge some views and be heard, it seems.
> 
> Sure, there could be debate about the construction of gender. That's not the intention of this thread though.
> 
> Some are providing their personal views of what is important to them as far as their marital dynamic, and what they value / appreciate / prioritize with their spouse. I understand to a point where you're coming from. However, despite my long ramblings in this thread, the question was focused to the husbands here. And even if one doesn't like or agree with those responses, doesn't invalidate the stance. Within my own marriage, my views and alignment (not to be misunderstood as being simply agreeable) with my husband have adjusted, even with small things, over time.


No shock intended at all.

ETA: I'm often left feeling like my husband and I are freaks based on the statements I read from many regulars here on TAM. Not freaks in a freaky, kinky way. I just read things people here say about themselves and their relationships and I'm often left feeling like an alien. I guess this was just another instance of that. Although, the short hair on women thing has always been a pet peeve of mine, but I know that when you look at most surveys anywhere online most men do not like short hair on women. But you're right, that wasn't the topic of this thread.


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## heartsbeating

Enigma32 said:


> Lucky guy. Also, I think this sort of thing speaks volumes about what kind of partner you are when it comes to things other than your haircut.


Thanks..!


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## heartsbeating

LATERILUS79 said:


> She also learned a long time ago not to ask the question, "Does this outfit make my a$$ look fat?".
> 
> Yes. Yes it does.
> 
> If you don't want the truth, it would be in your best interest not to come ask me. I never understood this.




I can't say that I've asked that specific question, however, if I do ask something along those lines he would give his opinion, yet even if that's positive, he will say something like, 'If you're not happy about it though, you know what you need to do'.


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## heartsbeating

Cici1990 said:


> No shock intended at all.
> 
> ETA: I'm often left feeling like my husband and I are freaks based on the statements I read from many regulars here on TAM. Not freaks in a freaky, kinky way. I just read things people here say about themselves and their relationships and I'm often left feeling like an alien. I guess this was just another instance of that. Although, the short hair on women thing has always been a pet peeve of mine, but I know that when you look at most surveys anywhere online most men do not like short hair on women. But you're right, that wasn't the topic of this thread.


Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. Some men will prefer short hair.

Among the 'type' that my husband would find physically attractive would include Audrey Tautou; she had short hair. When we met, I had shorter hair (but not Natalie Imbruglia short). He liked that it showed off my neck. Then I grew it longer. He prefers me with longer hair. I think more to the point, at least from my view, is that I want and choose to pay attention to what he likes and is important to him, and really to us as a couple together. And as he does with me. As I mentioned, that doesn't mean simply being agreeable; there's not much personal growth that can occur in that. My views and adjustments have also occurred across many years together, different life experiences, and shared personal growth.

For you though, how would reading about other relationship dynamics leave you feeling like an alien? What I mean is, if you feel solid with how you navigate your own life and marriage, then just lead from that place if the dynamic between you and your husband suits you both. Also the cool thing about negotiating relationships and the self-reflection that hopefully naturally occurs, means that how one views something now may change with time as a result of life / relationship feedback / changing priorities and such.


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## LATERILUS79

I was going to say the same thing, but HB is considerably more eloquent than I am.

Cici, you aren't an alien. You also love your husband and your husband loves you. You guys are working on your marriage issues because you both realized the other is worth the time and effort. Stop getting down on yourself.


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## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> I wouldn’t want my wife to cut her hair shorter than shoulder length. Obviously she can do what she wants and maybe it would look good but I would never pick it.
> 
> If I was going to change my facial hair or do something radical like shave my head I would ask her first.


I don't usually like short hair on either men or women, if I had my druthers.


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## Cici1990

ccpowerslave said:


> MAD LAD!!!
> 
> Generally I know correct manners and can behave appropriately when necessary.
> 
> I can eat to left and drink to the right, set the table properly, and I even know where to put the cake fork. My father would make us set the table correctly and eat properly for most dinners and we always had to eat at the dinner table with all the TVs turned off.
> 
> I like doing things properly from time to time, it shows respect.


I do things properly a lot of the time, believe it or not.


heartsbeating said:


> Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. Some men will prefer short hair.
> 
> Among the 'type' that my husband would find physically attractive would include Audrey Tautou; she had short hair. When we met, I had shorter hair (but not Natalie Imbruglia short). He liked that it showed off my neck. Then I grew it longer. He prefers me with longer hair. I think more to the point, at least from my view, is that I want and choose to pay attention to what he likes and is important to him, and really to us as a couple together. And as he does with me. As I mentioned, that doesn't mean simply being agreeable; there's not much personal growth that can occur in that. My views and adjustments have also occurred across many years together, different life experiences, and shared personal growth.
> 
> For you though, how would reading about other relationship dynamics leave you feeling like an alien? What I mean is, if you feel solid with how you navigate your own life and marriage, then just lead from that place if the dynamic between you and your husband suits you both. Also the cool thing about negotiating relationships and the self-reflection that hopefully naturally occurs, means that how one views something now may change with time as a result of life / relationship feedback / changing priorities and such.


It’s great that you pay attention to what’s important to your husband. There is nothing wrong with that. I think that should be part of a marriage. I was in no way criticizing you for having longer hair because your husband prefers it on you.

I really just got fired up by the comment about how most men just want their women to not blow up like a tick, cut their hair short, or fart. None of my comments were directed at you or you choosing to pay attention to what your husband likes ands finds attractive on you. I cut my hair in ways I know my husband especially likes, sometimes. I wear certain outfits because I know he particularly likes them. But my husband isn’t hung up on my hair length. He likes when I have long hair (which I do right now) and thinks it’s hot when I have short hair - as long as it’s a good cut that suits me. I personally would not want to be with a man who found me less attractive if I had short hair. That’s my personal preference and I don’t think any other woman has to feel that way. I do feel bad for the women who hold their gas in their entire lives though, but if that is what makes a girl happy and feel more attractive to her partner, it’s absolutely none of my business at all.

And when I say I feel like an alien, it’s hard to explain and I’m just going to be digging a hole and creating more of a threadjack. Some of the conservative and at times (in my opinion) sexist things I read on TAM, namely from men, are just not statements that I would ever hear my husband make and just seem very foreign from our life and beliefs. I agree with plenty of what I’ve read on TAM, but from time to time I just feel a bit out of place.


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## heartsbeating

Cici1990 said:


> It’s great that you pay attention to what’s important to your husband. There is nothing wrong with that. I think that should be part of a marriage. I was in no way criticizing you for having longer hair because your husband prefers it on you.


Just for clarity, I didn’t take your comments as a personal criticism.

Edited to add: I also like my hair long, so it’s not like I’m conforming to something that I’m not …it’s just a balance.


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## heartsbeating

Here’s a light-hearted one to the topic question about effort… make the effort to not speak to him from another room  Yes, I’m prone to this and he’s not a fan of it and doesn’t do it himself.


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## LATERILUS79

heartsbeating said:


> Here’s a light-hearted one to the topic question about effort… make the effort to not speak to him from another room  Yes, I’m prone to this and he’s not a fan of it and doesn’t do it himself.


I'm totally cool with this, but my wife's dainty little voice. 

She's says I'm deaf. Whatever. Just speak up woman! I welcome the shouting from another room!


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## bobert

heartsbeating said:


> Here’s a light-hearted one to the topic question about effort… make the effort to not speak to him from another room  Yes, I’m prone to this and he’s not a fan of it and doesn’t do it himself.


Pfft, that's what texting (from another room) is for. Spouses love that


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## ccpowerslave

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't usually like short hair on either men or women, if I had my druthers.


I started getting mine cut really short about a year ago and I go every 4 weeks now.

When I see it on pictures or video it looks good. My wife really likes it this short too so bonus there.


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## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> I started getting mine cut really short about a year ago and I go every 4 weeks now.
> 
> When I see it on pictures or video it looks good. My wife really likes it this short too so bonus there.


I think you posted a photo once and your hair looks fine. I just like good long hair but then I don't really like facial hair or body hair.


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## aine

LATERILUS79 said:


> Good points.
> 
> I’m not complaining that my wife doesn’t initiate enough. I’m answering the original question “what more can women do”. Ok then. I’m always game for self improvement. Man or woman. Doesn’t matter. If a woman is looking to do more, then I would like more initiating. More seduction. Show me as a man that I am still desirable (especially when I put in effort to be desirable). Will I divorce my wife over this? Absolutely not. I love her. We have lots of sex these days. I know my rejection Rate used to be painfully high, but I got used to it. Haven’t bothered looking at it these days since I get rejected less than half of my advances.
> 
> as for women not initiating more, I’ve always assumed that they fear rejection. Not all women, but I think this happens to the majority. My logic behind my thought process is the SMV. Women are born with a very high SMV and men are born poor. Men learn over time what it takes to be desirable to women and they have to work for it. Being turned down is just part of life. Most women on the other hand do not need to go looking for men. The men will come to them. They have their pick of the litter (most of the time. There are always the exceptions). As such, they aren’t used to rejection and that can hit their ego hard. I would probably equate it to telling a man he is acting weak, or is too short or his d1ck is too small. I would assume rejection to a woman would strike her hard at her core.
> 
> but being in a long term relationship or marriage, those boundaries should start to come down. It should be new and exciting to chase after her man. Seduce him. Get his attention…. But that’s easier said than done. I get that. So kudos to the women that fight through those thoughts or fear of rejection and go for it.
> 
> I also agree with your thoughts on hobbies. It also works in reverse. My wife is into crafting. I’m not necessarily, but there are enough elements to it that spill over into my hobbies that I went and looked for those things in her crafting hobbies. I made it in a way that was fun for me and still be able to share it with her - which in turn made it more fun. I only ask that she try to do the same thing with me. If she doesn’t like something, then she doesn’t like it. I’m just looking for effort.


Based on a perusal of what you said, she's the breadwinner, she should initiate sex, she should be more interested in your hobbies, she sounds like a man already. Incidentaly, what you do you bring to the mix, doesn't appear to be much tbh.

To answer the overall question: she should put in whatever he puts in. Simple.


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## PieceOfSky

aine said:


> Based on a perusal of what you said, she's the breadwinner, she should initiate sex, she should be more interested in your hobbies, she sounds like a man already. Incidentaly, *what you do you bring to the mix, doesn't appear to be much tbh*.
> 
> To answer the overall question: she should put in whatever he puts in. Simple.


That seems unnecessarily harsh, insulting, and off topic. Maybe I missed the context.

The overall question wasn't about what women are obliged to put in. It was about what would be effective at making any particular men (those who choose to answer) feel like their spouse cares in a way that is meaningful to him. We're all different, and want/respond to different things from our partners. Whether that works out in a particular relationship is up to the two involved. I don't often understand the motivation/interest in judging from the outside.



Girl_power said:


> So men… what should we (women) do, that will make you feel like we are putting in effort to make you happy?


On the "she should put in whatever he puts in" notion, I think many would disagree. One of the big ideas in "His Needs/Her Needs" and the "5 Love Languages" books is that what make one feel loved may very well be different than what make one's partner feel loved. IME, that rings true. My wife value and respond to very different things. Giving her what I want in return is not effective, and probably sets us back. Understanding what works for her is crucial.


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## CountryMike

She does most of the cooking and we have great, frequent sex, and is a great mother and grandmother. Tolerant of my time to time wandering outside the lines of expected behavior. 
And likes to go fishing sometimes. Other good things too, so not limiting but I've named the most important to me.

That sums it up.


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## LATERILUS79

aine said:


> Based on a perusal of what you said, she's the breadwinner, she should initiate sex, she should be more interested in your hobbies, she sounds like a man already. Incidentaly, what you do you bring to the mix, doesn't appear to be much tbh.
> 
> To answer the overall question: she should put in whatever he puts in. Simple.




I can't stop laughing. Wow. Are you always this much of a wet blanket or do you go out of your way to be this miserable? 

I was thinking about writing up some detailed reply but then realized you are definitely the type that isn't worth the time and effort - nor would you read it and understand it. You definitely subscribe to ideologies that wouldn't agree with me. I'd say good luck and enjoy your day, but let's be honest, you most likely plan on being grumpy and miserable.


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## Cici1990

LATERILUS79 said:


> I can't stop laughing. Wow. Are you always this much of a wet blanket or do you go out of your way to be this miserable?
> 
> I was thinking about writing up some detailed reply but then realized you are definitely the type that isn't worth the time and effort - nor would you read it and understand it. You definitely subscribe to ideologies that wouldn't agree with me. I'd say good luck and enjoy your day, but let's be honest, you most likely plan on being grumpy and miserable.


I need to learn the secret of your ways. 



aine said:


> Based on a perusal of what you said, she's the breadwinner, she should initiate sex, she should be more interested in your hobbies, she sounds like a man already. Incidentaly, what you do you bring to the mix, doesn't appear to be much tbh.
> 
> To answer the overall question: she should put in whatever he puts in. Simple.


I do not get this impression from his statement at all. He answered the main question of this thread (cudos to him for staying on topic while many of us are struggling) and actually didn’t make me want to scream when I read his response. I think what he’s asking is totally understandable and reasonable.


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