# wife refuses to communicate with me ... should I move out?



## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

been married 16years w/4-kids. My wife has always had a hard time talking with me about our relationship or sex in general. It's like it's taboo or something. I'm a very tolerant easy going guy. For the first few years I thought I was accepting this part of her unique personality and was trying to be nice because I loved her for who she was. Well she started changing to the extreme end of silent treatments, anger, sexless marriage, celibacy, etc.

She refuses to let me love her. Just once I'd like her to hold my hand or put her arm on my shoulder or show me she likes any sort of affection.

Her rejection of me keeps getting worse and worse and now she has a hard time going out with me on a simple date. She'd rather do anything with anybody other than me. Her lady friends, her parents, her sisters and our kids are the #1 priority. I got tickets a week in advance to see her favorite sports team play and she blew me off at the last second today to go hang out with some ladies from our church. I swear she knows it bothers me and gets off watching me suffer. I asked if she had fallen out of love with me and she responded with silence. (I assume that means yes) 

After speaking to our local church clergy about my problems... he finally convinced her to go see a relationship counselor alone. After a couple sessions I don't think she's going anymore. Naturally curious about my marriage, I asked her if she's still going to the counselor and she was very bothered that I would even ask and would not tell me if she was or not. (shame on me for wondering)

A clue: I found a secret letter she wrote to me but never gave me.... it was painful. It says how she doesn't communicate with me for many reasons as a punishment. Her reasons were that I don't provide trust and protection. This is very offensive to me since I'm all about protecting my family from whatever would do them harm. I don't know anything about why she cant trust me because she won't say how or what the reasons were. I decided not to let her know I found the letter (so she can't try to say how that wouldnt be trusting me for some reason) The problem is I have no idea what she's talking about.... Of course I protect her and the family... wtf is she talking about? but she won't tell me what the reasons are so I can change myself or fix the situation. I'd love to just sit down alone with her and talk... but she absolutely won't allow it. It's some sort of weird secret and a huge guessing game that's gonna cost her the marriage if she doesn't knock it off. It's like some sort of childish temper tantrum or something. We can't have a simple conversation unless it's about something other than us. Over the past couple years she "clams up" most of the time if I try to snuggle with or show affection to her. (yes I'm a guy and I like sex... even though we haven't had it for 5-months)

She mostly sleeps on the couch. I tell her how much I miss being by her... she makes up an excuse how she fell a sleep (almost every single night for months)... if I nag her to come to bed she'll come to bed fully clothed. It's kind of offensive to me. I get the hint she wants nothing to do with me. I just wish she'd tell me why. She pushes me as far away from her as she possibly can. I asked if she wanted me to move out and she said I didnt have to. Every day it gets worse.

She's completely shut me out but absolutely refuses to say why. How can I change or remedy our relationship if she refuses to talk or communicate?

I'm a pretty easy going guy and let her wear the pants most of the time... so I decided to put my foot down and demand she tell me why she won't talk and why she doesn't like to be within a 10-foot radius of me... well it backfired and she stormed out of the room (she gets angry easy) and said she'd talk when she's ready... well that was a year ago... still nothing as I'm starting to resent her mystery punishments on me. I'm tired of being punished for something that I might have done or said in the past.

I will not go another year like this. I'm lonely and ready to move out and find a loving wife who wants to share some sort of affection with a decent husband.... I have a lot to offer.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like you're really tried to be a "nice guy".

How's that working out for you?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

I suggest you read this link (and all the links therein) and join us in the Men's Clubhouse if you have any questions or need clarification.

I wish you well.


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

Im really so sorry to hear about your situation, it must be really difficult and painful living that way...

imo though, once you are married, you stay married, i guess that is not hte popular view on it..but my opinion would be to find ways to enjoy your life and add happiness to it despite her cold treatment to you

did you see any sign of this in her before you guys got married, just curious..

that's my view, once you take marriage vows you stay married 

except in case of adultery or physical danger, you took a vow when you guys got married, that is just my opinion

one thing i saw you wrote at the end, is you "let her wear the pants most of the time"-- it sounds like you are saying that over the years you let her act or treat you however she wants? why is that? i dont think that letting her have her way whenever she wants has been a good idea, its just made her feel less respect for you overall and maybe she resents that


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

laelsmom said:


> imo though, once you are married, you stay married... find ways to enjoy your life and add happiness to it despite her cold treatment to you


you're suggesting I just gut it up and do nothing about it? I honestly can't go on like this. I need companionship to be happy.



laelsmom said:


> did you see any sign of this in her before you guys got married


No, she was a very horny girlfriend.


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like you're really tried to be a "nice guy".
> 
> How's that working out for you?
> 
> ...


Conrad, these are really great links. I'm reading them now. Thanks!



Kookla said:


> Did you ever consider the possibility that this woman is already cheating on you, or is thinking seriously about it?


No, I know her well enough to know she isn't cheating. She never goes anywhere and absolutely hates going out. She mostly takes 5baths a day and watches TV until it's time to get the kids from school


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## friendly (Sep 21, 2010)

I agree that if she doesn't want to communicate, you can't live in the rest of your life in a cold war.


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

bump

The holidays were difficult for me as she boycotted anything that had to do with any relative from my side of the family. (including my uncles funeral and my families christmas party) I'd love to hear some other opinions on how to proceed from here.


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## marriagesucks (Sep 24, 2010)

I feel bad for your situation. I had a friend (he was in his early sixties) in a similar situation. Sex maybe 2 x a year and she would brush him off in much the same way. He ended up having affairs. Once he left her for another woman and she begged for him and he came back. She was fine for a while but went back to her old ways. And of course she never let him live it down for being unfaithful.

I told him he should leave. He was afraid to because he has been with her over 20 years and loved her. Plus they live in california, had a house together that they had for years and had a low mortgage because of that. Leaving with mean being alone and financial difficulty. 

His wife ended up getting cancer and he stayed by her side and catered to her. During a cancer counseling group for spouses he met another woman whose husband was dying of cancer. They fell in love quickly. He still didn't want to leave his wife. But once when his wife kicked him of the house again (usually over silly minor thing) he decided he wasn't going back. Of course she was mortified and begged him to come home. Instead he asked for a divorce. During the divorce she found out that he was having an affair. A few months after he divorced he married the other woman about 2 years after he met the woman. (His wife fully recovered from cancer by then).

Sorry for the long story. I guess the point is, I am so happy he chose not to live the rest of his life with someone who really abused him emotionally. He is a good person and he found someone who appreciates him.

To make a long story short. I think you should leave your wife and find happiness somewhere else.
They are madly in love and he couldn't be happier. I am glad he had the courage to do this.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I hate to say it but maybe the only thing you can do is to separate and to tell your wife in advance that this is what you plan to do. Most importantly when telling her be really clear with her about why you are leaving - i.e. lack of communication, affection etc. 

Having done the above I would say that if she still refuses to communicate you will know that there is no hope. I don't like ultimatums so I would NOT advise saying "if you don't communicate/open up I'm leaving". Just tell her you will be leaving and why and when. She'll know herself what to do if she truly wants to try to prevent you from going.

Of course, BEFORE you say anything you need to have really thought it through and have worked out the practicalities, and any foreseeable difficulties, disadvantaes of leaving and how you will handle them (not sure if your kids ages but obviously factor them in too when deciding) so that you can follow through and leave as necessary. Make sure if you tell her you are leaving it is not said just because you hope she'll open up to you and if she doesn't then you end up staying anyway. I think things could be 10 times worse if this happens so again do be ABSOLUTELY sure before you tell her you will be leaving, and be readly to follow through if things don't improve drastically. 

I would also tell her about the letter you found - what have you got to loose at this stage. If she then claims you betrayed her trust by finding /reading the letter I would see this as her trying to change the subject so don't be sidetracked (is there any possibility that she intended for you to find this letter and is waiting for you to mention it and resents you for not doing so???)


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I was going to say that she may have wanted you to find that letter, too. Get yourself a good lawyer who will guide you thru all the legal ramifications of any decision you might make, and if you must leave, get a legal seperation first, in writing. Sounds that if you do divorce, she would suddenly play the shocked victim.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree with others on here. Giver her an ultimatum. More than likely if it works at all, it will only be temporary. I'd tell her out of the blue i was moving out, and have my things by the door. If that doesn't shake her up enough, than you know its time for you to move on...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

What a mess! I truly do feel sorry for you. It sounds as if she has some deep resentments and possibly some type of personality disorder or mental condition that requires counselling.

She refuses to communicate with you, no affection, no loving gestures or words, won't have anything to do with your family, etc. These are some deep rooted issues and it does sound as if she is punishing you.

She is acting like a child, time to treat her like one.

While I also don't condone just walking out, based on what you've told us, you have tried to communicate with her and work through any problems, but if she won't tell you what they are, then how can you work out anything.

You didn't mention if you have children at home. If so, they can't help but notice what is going on - that type of environment is not good for them either.

I agree with a few of the other posters. Pack your things, tell her you're leaving and exactly why (and I wouldn't even give her the chance to argue, etc., about you leaving) and leave. And I agree with F-102, she will probably act shocked and then spend her time with her "lady friends," family, etc., playing the victim - so what - let her, those that know her well will know the real story. 

I am not one to stay for financial reasons or for the kids. If there is no love, desire or affection left and both parties are not willing to work it out - then move on.

You only have ONE life to live and there are no do-overs. You should spend it happy with a warm, loving woman who doesn't act like a 2-year old and pout when they don't get their way.

Don't feel guilty and worried about hurting her feelings, she doesn't feel guilty and has had no problem destroying yours.

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> It sounds as if she has some deep resentments


Yes I stumbled upon another secret letter to me that she won't give me. It speaks of a horrible time 13yrs ago when a family member on my side of the family fondled my daughter at a family event. The issue was dealt with by the police and the family member went through a repentance process and I thought that dark time was over with since it's been so many years and she's said nothing. She is somehow angry at me for this even though I had nothing to do w/it and had no way of knowing or preventing this. I recently spoke to a marriage counselor by myself about the problem and indicated how that was probably an excuse to fall out of love w/me. 

I've done a little research on the topic of wives falling out of love with their husbands for no apparent real reason and this is what i've found:

this is from relationship author Michelle Langley @ womensinfidelity.com

_The "stages" that women often experience during the course of their long-term relationships 
Several years into my research I was able to identify distinctive patterns and behaviors in the women I interviewed. I categorized these into four separate “stages” that women often experience during the course of their long-term relationships. The stages begin with a loss of sexual desire.

*Stage 1

Women at Stage 1 feel as though something is missing in their lives. They have all the things that they wanted—a home, a family, a great husband—but they feel they should be happier. Over time, many women in this stage begin to lose interest in sex. It is not uncommon for them to spend a great deal of energy trying to avoid physical contact with their husbands because they fear it might lead to a sexual encounter. They frequently complain of physical ailments to avoid having sex and often try to avoid going to bed at the same time as their husbands. They view sex as a job, not unlike doing the dishes or going to the grocery store. Some women in Stage 1 claim they feel violated when their husbands touch them. Their bodies freeze up and they feel tightness in their chest and/or a sick feeling in their stomach. The majority of women in Stage 1 feel as though there is something wrong with them, that they are in some way defective. They are also fearful that their disinterest in sex will cause their husbands to cheat, or worse yet, leave them.
*_
this describes my wife to a "T" 
Was wondering if anyone out there has bought this book and if there's a solution to stage 1 ? (I've spent so much money lately on trying to fix my marriage I can't spend more) I don't think my wife has ever cheated... I think she's been stuck on stage 1 for a long time

BTW thanks to the last few posters. Your words were candy for my broken soul


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I am so sorry you're going through this. I know you want to fix your marriage. Are you willing to risk losing it to possibly fix it? In a situation like this, you have to be willing to risk losing it all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you won't know unless you send her a clear and concise message that you aren't willing to tolerate living like this anymore, and that would mean walking out the door. If you do that, you'll know exactly where you stand. She'll either be glad you're gone, or willing to bend over backwards to get you back. If it's the latter...I wouldn't give in too easily. She'll just go back to her old ways if you do.

You don't deserve this. She's ridiculous if she thinks there's not another woman out there who would love you just as you are. I'd show her that possibility.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

laelsmom said:


> Im really so sorry to hear about your situation, it must be really difficult and painful living that way...
> 
> imo though, once you are married, you stay married, i guess that is not hte popular view on it..but my opinion would be to find ways to enjoy your life and add happiness to it despite her cold treatment to you
> 
> ...


I just love this sort of advice. You know, sweetie, you try living in a loveless, sexless marriage where you try everything humanly possible to fix it and your spouse refuses to take any responsibility for the marriage, refuses to communicate anything not even why they are mad. You live like that for years and see how you like it. 

In situations like this where one has worked hard and the other refuse to even go to joint counseling I have no problems suggesting divorce. No one should have to be forced to live in a loveless, sexless marriage. Esp when the only reason you suggest they stay together is because it offends your personal sensibilities. That is the dumbest reason ever to suggest someone stays married. "Hey guy, I know you're trapped in a marriage to a wife who treats you like dog poop, but guess what don't you get divorced because I said so..."


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Advocado said:


> I hate to say it but maybe the only thing you can do is to separate and to tell your wife in advance that this is what you plan to do. Most importantly when telling her be really clear with her about why you are leaving - i.e. lack of communication, affection etc.
> 
> Having done the above I would say that if she still refuses to communicate you will know that there is no hope. I don't like ultimatums so I would NOT advise saying "if you don't communicate/open up I'm leaving". Just tell her you will be leaving and why and when. She'll know herself what to do if she truly wants to try to prevent you from going.
> 
> ...


I agree with this advice. Get your financials/legal ducks in a row. Let her know before you separate and tell her very clearly why. Give her the chance to make changes, but if she still refuses then I think you should then follow through and file for divorce.


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

Advocado said:


> the only thing you can do is to separate and to tell your wife in advance that this is what you plan to do. Just tell her you will be leaving and why and when.


requires a warning talk that she won't have w/me




Rob774 said:


> I agree with others on here. Giver her an ultimatum. I'd tell her out of the blue i was moving out, and have my things by the door. If that doesn't shake her up enough, than you know its time for you to move on...


requires a warning talk that she won't have w/me



major misfit said:


> Are you willing to risk losing it to possibly fix it?


I think I can avoid an "all or nothing" situation. I think I can dabble in the middle to get my point accross



sailorgirl said:


> Let her know before you separate and tell her very clearly why. Give her the chance to make changes, but if she still refuses then I think you should then follow through and file for divorce.


your post was awesome and I appreciate your insight. However you suggest a warning talk... then divorce. The warning talk won't happen because she's incapable of having a conversation w/me about us. And I don't want a divorce. I wan't a half normal relationship w/my wife & for her to smell the cheese and be treated like her loving husband who works his ass off to provide for her and the children and make sure she's happy.


-------------------------------------------------------------
First of all thanks to all your posts. I really do value your input.

The suggestion of having a talk w/my wife about how I plan on leaving if she doesn't change won't work for me because remember she won't participate in any conversation about us.
I don't want a divorce. I want my wife back. I want to shock my wife in to knowing things need to change and that's she's going to be instantly turned in to a single mom with a huge mortgage payment if she doesn't see the light.
I'd be only moving half way out just for the nights since Im at home 24/7 since I work out of a home office here at the house anyways.
So I was thinking about moving out for the nights in one of these 2 ways:

- not coming home that night... she'd text me and ask me when I'm coming home... then I'd text her back saying I don't live there any more and can't be in a loveless marriage anymore. Then I'd find someway to get her the heartfelt letter I wrote since she won't talk

0r

-having all my clothes gone out of the dresser and closet while she's out running errands and leave her a heartfelt letter on the bed about why I'm gone and how to get me back and just have the shock happen that way.

thoughts?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Your wife doesn't have to "participate" in any discussion you have with her about an ultimatum or separation... How long does it take to get out a sentence like "I can't live in a sexless/loveless marriage. If things don't change, I'm going to move out." If she choses to leave the conversation at that point, I guess you have your response. If she choses to stay to talk, then you can talk about the issues. If she gets angry, you can chose to leave.

Your approaches of leaving a letter or text is, to be honest, cruel and cowardly. The net effect is the same (you're out of the house), but you don't want to do it in person. I can understand that, but after however many years of marriage, don't you think she deserves to hear it from you directly?

And you don't have to go directly to divorce... Up here (in my area of Canada), there's a mandatory 1 year separation period before a divorce will be granted unless there's abuse or proven adultery. Separating and working through things after isn't unusual, I think, and the whole point to the mandatory separation period.

C


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

PBear said:


> Your wife doesn't have to "participate" in any discussion you have with her about an ultimatum or separation... How long does it take to get out a sentence like "I can't live in a sexless/loveless marriage. If things don't change, I'm going to move out." If she choses to leave the conversation at that point, I guess you have your response. If she choses to stay to talk, then you can talk about the issues. If she gets angry, you can chose to leave.
> 
> Your approaches of leaving a letter or text is, to be honest, cruel and cowardly.
> C


She knows very well that I've been unhappy for a long time. That is not a surprise to her. She just thinks I'm a big whiner (which I'm not). You suggest an ultimatum. She's not the kind of person that ultimatums work well with. In the past she fires back that she feels "forced" to do things she doesn't want to do (like when I asked for sex after 5 months of not being allowed to look at or touch her... or like when I asked her to actually sleep in the same bed as me). I want her to do things because she wants to and not because I threaten to leave her.
You're exactly right about me writing her a letter and I'd rather not write it... but I'm forced to write it. There's no other way to communicate my feelings with her that I know of. I'm simply not allowed to let her know how I feel verbally. She's so stubborn she probably won't even read it. My 3 page letter explains exactly why I feel the way I do and exactly what she can do to fix the marriage and how to get me back. 
I see your point. Maybe perhaps I could verbally say in 10 seconds or less "I'm leaving and in this letter is what you can do to resolve it and make me want to move back in". I've been crawling up to her pleading for things for the past 16years and I'm done begging for things (even though I really don't beg that much because I know it annoys her). It's her turn.


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## Ello1012 (Oct 26, 2011)

Good luck man, you're choiuce, really sit down with her ask her, and if things are not working out..then you know, divorce...and she doesnt diserve any $ not unl;ess you choose to give her some ameen. asalaam klol..peace!Lol:!)


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## Ello1012 (Oct 26, 2011)

and unless you have already given her stuff, then it's hers to keep ameen asalaam oklol..peace!Lol:!)... and youc an leave her things if you like, shouldn't be a problem good luck oklol..peace!Lol:!)


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I have been and still am in a similar situation for many years. I cant say I know the answer but have also been to counsellors. It has partly improved because as she has got older she realises that she doesnt now want divorce. She still refuses sex but in a different sort of way like saying not to night try to-morrow. But to-morrow never comes. Talking about it is taboo and also about most other things. I am really sorry for you as I am for myself and dont really give it much hope. Forced sex is no pleasure meaning if she doesnt want it. Another problem is counsellors somehow believe there is something wrong with me the man if she doesnt want it. As though all women automatically must be wanting it. I really have no solution.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i believe you need time away from the toxic relationship in order to strengthen yourself. before i joined the army, i could have been the poster child for the stereotypical "nice guy". i had dated a girl for about 6 years, was engaged to be married, but a near death experience got me thinking about how i actually want to live my life, what i want to do. i started to realize that i kept dismissing everything i thought would make me happy because the girl wouldnt approve. i had caved to her so much that i even tolerated her drug abuse. i kept trying and trying to "man up", but it wasnt going to happen around her. i was too weak by then. i started to wonder if there was something wrong with me, but that past realization that i kept caving around her and denying myself the things i wanted out of life made me realize that i had to do something drastic if i was ever to get to the point where i was someone i could be proud of. i had to do something i couldnt turn back from, i knew i was weak. i ended up isolating myself in a swamp for 3 months while i continuously recited mantras over and over again to bolster my self confidence, and to break the "addiction" of trying to gain the girls love. by removing myself from her toxic influence, i was able to see how she really treated me. when i finaly came out of the swamp, essentially "detoxed" by then, i resumed the relationship, on my terms. no drugs, she holds herself to her word, treats me with respect, etc etc. i ended up leaving her because of the drugs. im glad i did, but i never would have had the strength to stick up for MYSELF if i hadnt removed any chance continuing to cave to her by dissapearing for a while. when i came back, i knew i could stand on my own two feet again, as i had lived without her for three months.

i told you all this because i see you leaving yourself open to get crushed again. your past attempts backfired on you because she had no reason to respect you. if you werent going to leave, and she knew that, then why should she do anything you want her to do? although i dont recommend surviving alone in a swamp for three months like i did, i do suggest you go about this with some serious resolve. so far as leaving, pack your stuff up and have it already planned out. if she really doesnt want to talk to you, then she doesnt have to, just tell her why you are leaving while she sits and acts like she cant hear you and get out before you start to lose your resolve. you have given her far too many chances to not consider yourself a fair guy. i would set a specific number of days that you want to be gone for. plan it all out, write what you want to do, and STICK TO THE PLAN. set conditions and standard for you coming back home. if you can do that, all you have to do is stick to what you already decided. post it up somewhere you can see it, and use it to strengthen you. if she wants to reconcile, let her know what you expect, but dont go back until she starts to do what you want, until she stops acting like a spoiled two year old. 

there are two possible outcomes to you holding your ground and refusing to continue living like this.
1) your wife starts to talk to you again and agrees to work on the marriage and respect you agian because she doesnt really want a divorce.
2) your wife does want a divorce, is happy you left, and you move on. 

right now you dont have a wife, you have a spoiled brat who doesnt care about your feelings but lives off of the money you bust your ass to make. you dont even have yourself, as im sure you would agree that you dont FEEL like you are who you want to be. you wont be able to feel like yourself if you leave that up to her, not as the way things are now anyway. she has already proven that she doesnt want to make you happy. do NOT try to make your wife happy until she shows that she is willing to respect your feelings. since she has already proven that she doesnt respect you, and indicated with the letter that she actually WANTS you to feel like ****, she wont respond to kindness. you have nothing right now that will make her happy because she is blaming you for all the problems, for whatever reason. only when she accepts the fact that there is something wrong with HER will you ever be able to make her happy again by showing that you are willing to work with her and forgive her. you cant do that until you make her face reality, and you can only do that by providing a motivation for change. that motivation would be consequences for her actions.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

This post is already a year old. Most likely all the solutions mentioned for some reason are not viable. 
I can speak though about myself. I have been to three counsellors over time all women. They are all adamant that they see us together which is not a good idea see further. Two were absolutely hopeless and even made matters worse. One of them was really good. She was very fierce, I have never seen such ferocity in a lady. My wife was really scared of her. That seems to be the main thing in a counsellor. She went there on her own without my presence and really came out crying. My mistake which I regret all my life is that I had a minor argument about some little thing and I was proved right. She wrote a letter to us saying she did not want to see us anymore. How I regret my action! 
What you want is for someone to change your wife. Most counsellors will say you have to change yourself and will work on that. This counsellor saw the truth and wasnt scared of my wife to do something about it. It helped even for later not just for the time. But just didnt go far enough through my unfortunate mistake. 
So my answer really is find a very rough woman marriage counsellor and try and get your wife to go. Just be careful never to argue with her. And make sure she has a separate session with your wife.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i really should look at the dates on these posts more often... 

ill have to keep that in mind about a fierce woman counselor. i honestly believe that the biggest reason counselors are even effective at all is because they are a source that will call you on your faults that cant be called manipulative. what counselor would lie to you about what they think the problem was? after all, if hey did, they would never help anyone and would lose business pretty quick.

uncool, if you still lurk here, how are things? update?


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You miss my point. Its not about lying. Its first of all about bias. If one has taken a liking to one they cant find fault with the other. Then how do you go about it even if they know the problem. Sometimes it spirals and starts from 'nothing'. How do you stop it. They will usually choose the weaker one and ask him/her to stop first. This never works because the stronger one will only get worse. My experience is that they usually decide on divorce. The easy way out and for that one doesnt need them at all although both dont want it. The only way in an 'impossible' situation is to lay down some ground rules and not leave it to the man/wife. For instance in my case. For my wife not to mix into things which dont concern her directly, like to let me dress as I please or go where I want. Not to harp on old things which are her excuses for today and tomorrow and forever. Not to use sex as a weapon against me or as a reward. I only found one counsellor the one I mentioned who understood all this.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

accept said:


> You miss my point. Its not about lying. Its first of all about bias. If one has taken a liking to one they cant find fault with the other. Then how do you go about it even if they know the problem. Sometimes it spirals and starts from 'nothing'. How do you stop it. They will usually choose the weaker one and ask him/her to stop first. This never works because the stronger one will only get worse. My experience is that they usually decide on divorce. The easy way out and for that one doesnt need them at all although both dont want it. The only way in an 'impossible' situation is to lay down some ground rules and not leave it to the man/wife. For instance in my case. For my wife not to mix into things which dont concern her directly, like to let me dress as I please or go where I want. Not to harp on old things which are her excuses for today and tomorrow and forever. Not to use sex as a weapon against me or as a reward. I only found one counsellor the one I mentioned who understood all this.


i actualy got your point, my mind just jumped to a situation i was in with my wife a while ago. she flat out told me that she didnt believe me when i told her what was bothering me. she had an extremely low self esteem when i married her. it took a neutral third party to explain it to her before she would believe it was possible that i wasnt just trying to manipulate her. so far as bias goes, i agree. i ended up leaving several counselors because i felt like they were starting to just beat my wife down instead of conveying her issues to me. there were things she wouldnt tell me(probably because of her low self esteem) and i believe that the first few counselors i went to saw her as an easy target and thought i would be more likely to keep paying them if i thought i was "getting what i want". what i wanted was a wife that felt like she had a say in the marriage and was willing to talk to me about issues before they became deal breakers. what i needed was help that would work to achieve that. i really despise empty praise.


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