# Book by prostitute...what men want



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Having been in a sex starved marriage, this story really resonated with me as to what many men really want. It sounds like so many posts on TAM by lonely men.



> In her book The Secret Taboo about “being a financially successful escort” she claimed that “most gentlemen don’t always go for the kinky services”.
> 
> Instead she said her clients wanted a “feeling of being needed and wanted badly by a horny woman. It is their fantasy after all”.
> 
> The Australian then offered advice to other women in the industry who battle with one another to get more clients and said to work within their “boundaries”.


https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/659419/gwyneth-montenegro-escourt-sex-worker-prostitute-australia-news?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

It would be so much better if wives in unhappy marriages could work with their husbands to provide them that feeling of being needed, sexually desired, and having a horny woman to be with at night. Yes the husbands also need to work with their wives to make them feel like rebuilding their marriage.

I am sure that there are also many women who want the same thing from their husband. Oh well.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Having been in a sex starved marriage, this story really resonated with me as to what many men really want. It sounds like so many posts on TAM by lonely men.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the difference is that with a sex worker there is a suspension of disbelief. The client knows that the prostitute is only pretending desire but he's willing to go with the flow to fill his need short term. 

Most people want to be legitimately desired. I can't imagine men being happier knowing their wives were faking desire for an hour or two, once or twice a week, living a facade day in, day out. 

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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Lila said:


> Most people want to be legitimately desired. I can't imagine men being happier knowing their wives were faking desire for an hour or two, once or twice a week, living a facade day in, day out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I get a similar feeling at dinner every night when my family tastes my cooking.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Didn't I read that hookers can generally tell that a guy is married if the first thing he asks for is a blow job?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I can't quite get my head around all that other than willing suspension of disbelief? I would rather take up bell ringing than pay someone to pretend to be really, really into me. 

But I know that is not the point. I suspect being needy is not considered a very masculine trait so they do not effectively communicate what is missing...and maybe they are not entirely sure what _is_ missing until they experience something else. :frown2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Also, the book title is “The Secret Taboo – The Ultimate Insider’s Guide to Being a Financially Successful Escort”. It's tailored to women who are either currently in or intend to enter the sex industry. 

The things she recommends in the book are intended to maximize a prostitute's profit, not to improve the intimacy in marriage. Big difference. 


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

peacem said:


> I can't quite get my head around all that other than willing suspension of disbelief? I would rather take up bell ringing than pay someone to pretend to be really, really into me.
> 
> But I know that is not the point. I suspect being needy is not considered a very masculine trait so they do not effectively communicate what is missing...and maybe they are not entirely sure what _is_ missing until they experience something else. :frown2:


Its tough though, how much is it being needy and how much of it is your SO just ignoring your needs (I know, may sound like one in the same).


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

peacem said:


> I can't quite get my head around all that other than willing suspension of disbelief? I would rather take up bell ringing than pay someone to pretend to be really, really into me.
> 
> But I know that is not the point. I suspect being needy is not considered a very masculine trait so they do not effectively communicate what is missing...and maybe they are not entirely sure what _is_ missing until they experience something else. :frown2:


Not having hired a prostitute, I cannot speak from experience. But in the depths of my sex starved marriage, before it was turned around, even the illusion of being sexually desired would have been something that would have given me both joy and courage. Desperate people can compartmentalize.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Not having hired a prostitute, I cannot speak from experience. But in the depths of my sex starved marriage, before it was turned around, even the illusion of being sexually desired would have been something that would have given me both joy and courage. Desperate people can compartmentalize.


I think I can probably equate it to when my husband virtually ignored me when the children were born and found myself developing crushes on other men very easily. I saw one particular man a few weeks ago and said hi, but I was secretly thinking what on earth was I thinking...not even good looking. All he had to do was be a little charming and notice my existence. But even then I didn't quite understand it until I had fixed some of the issues in my marriage, when my husband gives me some validation of desirability I am not remotely interested in anyone else...not even David Beckham.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Also, the book title is “The Secret Taboo – The Ultimate Insider’s Guide to Being a Financially Successful Escort”. It's tailored to women who are either currently in or intend to enter the sex industry.
> 
> The things she recommends in the book are intended to maximize a prostitute's profit, not to improve the intimacy in marriage. Big difference.
> 
> ...


An important detail is letting wives know what their husbands desire.

They are paying for an experience that, although an act, is what they need to feel.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return. I'm not sure it's the desire that's so important, as it is the _effortless on his part _desire. If she needed conversation, affection, attention, quality time, emotional connection, help with the baby, for him to do his share of the housework - all the real-life things that a relationship requires - then the fantasy would be destroyed. You don't pay a hooker for sex, you pay her to leave after. To require no involvement from you beyond your quick payment.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> An important detail is letting wives know what their husbands desire.
> 
> They are paying for an experience that, although an act, is what they need to feel.


Yes but will the experience ever be equal to having a spouse meet that need? 

What I mean is that sex workers provide a service without expectation of reciprocation in a very stress free (controlled) environment. she's there to service her client for however long he paid her to service him. There's no kids running about that have to be cared for, no bills to worry about, no housework, no leaky roofs, on and on. It's the same type of ideal situation cheaters experience. They get to have fun times without the worries.

That's not how real relationships work. It's a give and take that typically happens in a stress filled environment. A wife could never compete with a sex worker long term. That's why I said that the book is not written as a guide for couples to improve their sex life. It's the same reason why a sex worker would have no use for a book like 'His Needs, Her Needs". Apples to Oranges.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

IMO, the real benefit from hiring a prostitute is not the sex, but that afterwards she goes away :grin2:. It fulfills his needs and he only has to pay her once.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Lila said:


> Yes but will the experience ever be equal to having a spouse meet that need?
> 
> What I mean is that sex workers provide a service without expectation of reciprocation in a very stress free (controlled) environment. she's there to service her client for however long he paid her to service him. There's no kids running about that have to be cared for, no bills to worry about, no housework, no leaky roofs, on and on. It's the same type of ideal situation cheaters experience. They get to have fun times without the worries.
> 
> That's not how real relationships work. It's a give and take that typically happens in a stress filled environment. A wife could never compete with a sex worker long term. That's why I said that the book is not written as a guide for couples to improve their sex life. It's the same reason why a sex worker would have no use for a book like 'His Needs, Her Needs". Apples to Oranges.


Sometimes you gotta "fake it till you make it". Genuine desire is preferred, but a little pretending is a step in the right direction . The other side of this is men need to not try to fix all their W's daily struggles, but understand and appreciate their struggles as part of the team.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return. I'm not sure it's the desire that's so important, as it is the _effortless on his part _desire. If she needed conversation, affection, attention, quality time, emotional connection, help with the baby, for him to do his share of the housework - all the real-life things that a relationship requires - then the fantasy would be destroyed. You don't pay a hooker for sex, you pay her to leave after. To require no involvement from you beyond your quick payment.


You posted this while I was typing mine. 

You said it way better than I did.

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Yes but will the experience ever be equal to having a spouse meet that need?
> 
> What I mean is that sex workers provide a service without expectation of reciprocation in a very stress free (controlled) environment. she's there to service her client for however long he paid her to service him. There's no kids running about that have to be cared for, no bills to worry about, no housework, no leaky roofs, on and on. It's the same type of ideal situation cheaters experience. They get to have fun times without the worries.
> 
> That's not how real relationships work. It's a give and take that typically happens in a stress filled environment. A wife could never compete with a sex worker long term. That's why I said that the book is not written as a guide for couples to improve their sex life. It's the same reason why a sex worker would have no use for a book like 'His Needs, Her Needs". Apples to Oranges.


I get what you are saying but any spouse, regardless of gender, is capable of losing track of important needs their SO have.

My wife and I went through this a few years ago.

I provided everything I could on my part and, she will attest, was not lacking.

She backed off sexual intimacy and became a bit controlling.

After several months and after coming home after flirting with her all day, expecting some loving with my wife, she met me at the door and gave me a reserved kiss, told me we were having dinner and maybe playtime later, maybe not.

I got very cold and went upstairs alone. I thought for a few minutes and after changing clothes, went downstairs to talk.

I was furious at the way she was treating me but kept control.

I let her know she married a passionate man that was very desirable and that I would not be denied.

I had a lot of passion to pour into a woman and I had chosen her to pour into.

I also told her that many women would be more than happy to receive what I have to give but I only wanted her.

In so many words, I said I'm a hot commodity that she was neglecting but I wouldn't stand for it for very long.

She got a tear in her eye, grabbed my hand and took me to our bedroom. She proceeded to convince me in one of the hottest and unreserved sessions we had to that date that she did desire me and wanted my passion.

It came out that a b1tchy church lady or three had been working on her and filling her head with crap about how I was just using her and other nonsense. Two of those women are now divorced and the third is an extremely fat and unpleasant woman whose husband probably wishes would leave.

Knowing what we need is important regardless of where the wisdom comes from.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Knowing what we need is important regardless of where the wisdom comes from.


I agree with the first part of this but not the second. The source of information is crucial.

It's why we don't ask a heart surgeon to fix a figurative broken heart. Apples to oranges. 



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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

First off, I don't necessarily feel that going to an escort is in any way similar to being intimate with your spouse. At least it shouldn't be. At least to me. An escort may provide a physical release. Any emotional release that comes along with it is most likely due the relatively low base line of that particular need to that particular man. OTOH being intimate with a spouse should provide both physical and emotional release along with a bonding experience. 
Simply wanting sex is not what men are all about, regardless of whatever stereotype women tend to believe. I think this one of those things that some woman simply do not understand or unwilling to accept.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Ynot said:


> First off, I don't necessarily feel that going to an escort is in any way similar to being intimate with your spouse. At least it shouldn't be. At least to me. An escort may provide a physical release. Any emotional release that comes along with it is most likely due the relatively low base line of that particular need to that particular man. OTOH being intimate with a spouse should provide both physical and emotional release along with a bonding experience.
> Simply wanting sex is not what men are all about, regardless of whatever stereotype women tend to believe. I think this one of those things that some woman simply do not understand or unwilling to accept.


Then why is it so common that men do it?

I think for the majority of men, you're right--it's not the same thing. I do think though that there are a lot of men that are either unable to find a mate for whatever reason that confuse the biological urge with the emotions that are associated with it. Then there are men who are IN relationships that are basically emotionally retarded and still can't differentiate the two. Then there are your sociopaths and plain old dirtbags that just don't care.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rowen wrote,* I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return.*

I think this also recreates the unconditional love some of us got from our mothers, for which many long to return to. It may only be an approximation but it is the best some will do. This is also what we receive from an affair which explains in part the power of an affair to defy all commons sense and rationality.

Tamat


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return. I'm not sure it's the desire that's so important, as it is the _effortless on his part _desire. If she needed conversation, affection, attention, quality time, emotional connection, help with the baby, for him to do his share of the housework - all the real-life things that a relationship requires - then the fantasy would be destroyed. You don't pay a hooker for sex, you pay her to leave after. To require no involvement from you beyond your quick payment.


That might be true, but all relationships with human beings are potentially dynamic. That is, your sex partner may very soon want to have an actual relationship.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Lila said:


> I can't imagine men being happier knowing their wives were faking desire for an hour or two, once or twice a week, living a facade day in, day out.


Work on your imagination. An hour or two once or twice a week describes my sex life. The faking is pretty good. It is kind of sad that when the switch flips, it is back to business for the next 3 or 4 days, but I'm pretty happy with enthusiastic faking it. Much happier than I was with constant disinterest.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Work on your imagination. An hour or two once or twice a week describes my sex life. The faking is pretty good. It is kind of sad that when the switch flips, it is back to business for the next 3 or 4 days, but I'm pretty happy with enthusiastic faking it. Much happier than I was with constant disinterest.


If this works for you then more power to ya. It sure as hell would not work for me. 

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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> I think for the majority of men, you're right--it's not the same thing. I do think though that there are a lot of men that are either unable to find a mate for whatever reason that confuse the biological urge with the emotions that are associated with it. Then there are men who are IN relationships that are basically emotionally retarded and still can't differentiate the two. Then there are your sociopaths and plain old dirtbags that just don't care.



I think a lot of men equate lust/ being desired by their wife is love.

Where women feel much different. Being appreciated for her efforts is important for them to feel loved.

Don't get me wrong men like appreciation and women like being lusted after.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*20

"While earlier studies with methodological limitations have found 69% (Kinsey et al., 1948) to 80% (Benjamin and Masters, 1964) of American men to have engaged in commercial sex, more recent studies with representative sampling have found much lower - but still substantial - rates in the range of 15% to 20%...

While men who solicit prostitution are not atypical demographically or in terms of criminal history, they are unsurprisingly and measurably different in terms of a range of attitudes toward women, relationships, and commercial sex... [C]onsumers were less likely to be happily married than men in national samples, to have sexually liberal attitudes (e.g., to view premarital sex, sex among minors, and homosexuality as acceptable), and to think about sex more often. Commercial sex participants were also less likely to have been sexually molested as children, or to report having forced women into sexual acts. The differences between samples were not large, but were statistically significant."

Abt Associates Inc., "Final Report on the Evaluation of the First Offender Prostitution Program," Prepared for Karen Bachar, Office of Research and Evaluation, National Institute of Justice, March 7, 2008

"Contact [with prostitutes] is higher among those living in metropolitan areas, Blacks, those with lower incomes, veterans (probably when in military service), those who attend church less frequently, and those having gone through a divorce or are currently separated. Among married men paying for sex during the last 12 months is strongly related to low marital happiness."

Tom W. Smith, "American Sexual Behavior: Trends, Socio-Demographic Differences, and Risk Behavior," General Social Survey (GSS) Project at the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago, Mar. 2006


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> I think a lot of men equate lust/ being desired by their wife is love.
> 
> Where women feel much different. Being appreciated for her efforts is important for them to feel loved.
> 
> Don't get me wrong men like appreciation and women like being lusted after.


Well how common do you think it is for men to go to a prostitute?

I have never even considered it. All my friends say the same thing.

When my brother got divorced he did and said it was less than desirable only did it once.



Ps 

I don't know what happened what happened with your quote. Then I tried to fix it and deleted part of it. 

Sorry for the confusion .


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Now I quoted myself.....I give up .


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

@Lila but you see, you are not the world, in fact you are not even a man.
I have come to terms with the idea that a real marriage is full of stress and kids and cooking and cleaning. There is some value to having a person who will carve out a bit of her reading time to meet one of my emotional needs. Certainly not all of them.

What this thread is really about is what desperate men want, or will settle for. Fantasy is indeed something that men want. As a man I have no trouble understanding that. I'm pretty sure fantasy is something my wife wants. She certainly reads plenty of it.

There is a constant parade of women here confirming that there is no time for a sex life in a normal marriage. Based on that, I'm happy to have made the priority list.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Mr. Nail, I seem to have struck a nerve with you. My comment was not disparaging you in any way. I was only expressing my point of view. But as you seem to think that only men experience sexless marriages or a loss of desire by their partners, I must assure you that this is not the case. 

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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

IDK, there is something a bit off with quoting a book that is written to teach others how to dupe men out of more money and saying wives should take note. 

IMHO men that pay for sex are sorry to say, losers. Find a FWB if you want NSA sex, ONS or whatever but it always seemed like the realm of the dim witted to pay for sex. Yes I know I will get slammed but that's cool.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> IDK, there is something a bit off with quoting a book that is written to teach others how to dupe men out of more money and saying wives should take note.
> 
> IMHO men that pay for sex are sorry to say, losers. Find a FWB if you want NSA sex, ONS or whatever but it always seemed like the realm of the dim witted to pay for sex. Yes I know I will get slammed but that's cool.


The though of what might be left behind from the last costomer is just 

Well you get the idea.

Just not worth the risk of disease for an hour of pleasure or less.

I can close my eyes or bring up some porn if I'm that horney.

Fwb 's only good if not married.


It does amaze me that there seems to be just as many women who are in sex starved marriages as men.

It just sucks being in such a situation!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MrsHolland said:


> IDK, there is something a bit off with quoting a book that is written to teach others how to dupe men out of more money and saying wives should take note.
> 
> IMHO men that pay for sex are sorry to say, losers. Find a FWB if you want NSA sex, ONS or whatever but it always seemed like the realm of the dim witted to pay for sex. Yes I know I will get slammed but that's cool.


I couldn't agree more about people who pay for sex. Ugh!

I do believe research information can be gathered however undesirable the source.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> Having been in a sex starved marriage, this story really resonated with me as to what many men really want. It sounds like so many posts on TAM by lonely men.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I find it sort of funny that often, even when a man has a very willing wife who really wants sex with him... a wife who enjoys giving him lots of bj's too... the last thing he wants is sex with his wife.

You see, men are a likely to chose to make their marriage sexless as women are. Yet here you are blaming women alone for this sort of problem. 

Yet what you are suggesting is that have to act like a prostitute and pretend to like/want sex with their husband. How about you tell men exactly the same thing. After all you are assuming that this is a message that all women need to hear... so I guess all men need to hear exactly the same thing.

The difference is that there is not a huge industry of men willing to service men for profit because historically it was taboo for women to use male prostitutes and normal for men to use them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> Not having hired a prostitute, I cannot speak from experience. But in the depths of my sex starved marriage, before it was turned around, even the illusion of being sexually desired would have been something that would have given me both joy and courage. Desperate people can compartmentalize.


You know, I felt exactly the same when I was in a sexless marriage. I'm sure that all women feel exactly the same. This is not a male only issue. So maybe the answer to the sexless marriage for women is that the women should go out and hire male prostitutes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> I think a lot of men equate lust/ being desired by their wife is love.
> 
> *Where women feel much different. Being appreciated for her efforts is important for them to feel loved.*
> 
> Don't get me wrong men like appreciation and women like being lusted after.


Your last sentence does not override what you tried to do in your first two sentences.... 

No, as a woman, I can tell you that having a husband who lusts after us is definitely a statement of love. Love is marriage is very different than other types of love... lust/desire is a huge part of it.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You know, I felt exactly the same when I was in a sexless marriage. I'm sure that all women feel exactly the same. This is not a male only issue. So *maybe the answer to the sexless marriage for women is that the women should go out and hire male prostitutes.*


I have friends that have and do but for them it is more about getting really good sex and a hot male body, not feeling desired. I just nod and wave and still adore them because they are my friends. Was better for me to divorce, understand the unicorn that is sexual and relationship compatibility and then not settle till I found it. 

Oh and by the way the cost for male prostitutes (in Aus) is extremely expensive but they are apparently of extremely high quality.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I find it sort of funny that often, even when a man has a very willing wife who really wants sex with him... a wife who enjoys giving him lots of bj's too... the last thing he wants is sex with his wife.
> 
> You see, men are a likely to chose to make their marriage sexless as women are. Yet here you are blaming women alone for this sort of problem.
> 
> ...


Hmm i don't think many women need male prostitues because they have a much eaiser time getting laid than men.

Any woman can walk into a bar and walk out with a man willing to bang her in 5 mins.

Might have something to do with the quality of man they might end up with and the fact back before birth control they had to be careful not to get pregnant.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hmm i don't think many women need male prostitues because they have a much eaiser time getting laid than men.
> 
> Any woman can walk into a bar and walk out with a man willing to bang her in 5 mins.
> 
> Might have something to do with the quality of man they might end up with and the fact back before birth control they had to be careful not to get pregnant.


Yea, walking into a bar and screwing the first guy who agrees to it is not the way to get satisfying sex and to have it with someone who pretends to actually desire you. Nope that's the way to get a guy to use her body to get off himself and then do nothing for her.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Rowan said:


> I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return. I'm not sure it's the desire that's so important, as it is the _effortless on his part _desire. If she needed conversation, affection, attention, quality time, emotional connection, help with the baby, for him to do his share of the housework - all the real-life things that a relationship requires - then the fantasy would be destroyed. You don't pay a hooker for sex, you pay her to leave after. To require no involvement from you beyond your quick payment.


So well said. Brilliant.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, walking into a bar and screwing the first guy who agrees to it is not the way to get satisfying sex and to have it with someone who pretends to actually desire you. Nope that's the way to get a guy to use her body to get off himself and then do nothing for her.


Lol 

I suppose this is very true!

I just did a google search and found that women are using male escorts more frequently than ever before.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I


EleGirl said:


> You know, I felt exactly the same when I was in a sexless marriage. I'm sure that all women feel exactly the same. This is not a male only issue. So maybe the answer to the sexless marriage for women is that the women should go out and hire male prostitutes.


I honestly don't think that is the point being conveyed at all.

The message isn't "go hire a prostitute".

It is that men want to feel desired by their women.

I agree that women need that as well.

The source is sketchy but the message rings true.

I think people who pay for sex have a slew of other problems that could certainly be skewing their perspective.

I also know that their are asshats on both sides of the chromosomes that crap on attentive and loving partners but that should be a thread about asshats.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I think a lot of the men who hire prostitutes - or who cheat with casual affairs or one night stands - want to be really wanted by a horny woman who requires nothing of them in return. I'm not sure it's the desire that's so important, as it is the _effortless on his part _desire. If she needed conversation, affection, attention, quality time, emotional connection, help with the baby, for him to do his share of the housework - all the real-life things that a relationship requires - then the fantasy would be destroyed. You don't pay a hooker for sex, you pay her to leave after. To require no involvement from you beyond your quick payment.


Missed this one! Direct hit in my opinion woman! Great explanation!


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## KatrinaR (Nov 10, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> But in the depths of my sex starved marriage, before it was turned around, even the illusion of being sexually desired would have been something that would have given me both joy and courage.


Maybe you've mentioned your story elsewhere, but I was wondering what was the key to turning it around?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Sex with no strings.

Temporary.

Variety.

Convenience.

Set cost.

These are all things Odo said to me when I once flat out asked why men seek prostitution, even when in seemingly strong marriages. 

It's amazing what anyone can do with the right INCENTIVES, on either side. Even pretend to voraciously devour you. As a sex worker one would have had an ample career on stage by comparison to those who chose not to engage in that profession. Do not overlook this. 

So is it really the notion that a woman desires you that is the attractive factor in all this, or could it be that she just knows how to play you?

Because there's playing you for a single expected incentive ($$$), and there's authentically devouring you without any expected incentive other than your loyalty and devotion (however that translates into desired energy, i.e. X loads of laundry/week). But devotion is intangible and situational. Money is a tangible and renewable source, provided you're gainfully employed. 

Every type of relationship is transactional IMO, complicated spectacularly with emotions and societal constructs. We look to marriage and LTC as that which engages us in a binding, hopefully lasting, transactional relationship. I know that's what I signed up for, anyway. I have sex with Odo because I love him. That's what my feels tell me. Underneath that is the actual answer. I love him because he fulfills my transactional needs, whatever this may be (and like @EleGirl said, that would include sex for me!). If he ever felt the need to hire a prostitute, then as far as I'm concerned, my deserved transaction is being spent elsewhere, far more cheaply, and the deal at that point, is off.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> Lol
> 
> I suppose this is very true!
> 
> I just did a google search and found that women are using male escorts more frequently than ever before.


Of course women are using male prostitutes more than ever before these days...because there are a lot more women who now have the freedom to do so.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> @Lila but you see, you are not the world, in fact you are not even a man.
> I have come to terms with the idea that a real marriage is full of stress and kids and cooking and cleaning. There is some value to having a person who will carve out a bit of her reading time to meet one of my emotional needs. Certainly not all of them.
> 
> What this thread is really about is what desperate men want, or will settle for. Fantasy is indeed something that men want. As a man I have no trouble understanding that. I'm pretty sure fantasy is something my wife wants. She certainly reads plenty of it.
> ...


Well then, you know exactly what it feels like for a woman who is in a relationship with a man who does not want sex with her and how cannot carve out of his time to meet her emotional needs. I really don't see this as a male only problem. It's every bit as much a problem for women.

The difference is that it's more socially acceptable for men to seek out call girls and prostitutes to get some of that fantasy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I
> 
> I honestly don't think that is the point being conveyed at all.
> 
> ...


Ah, you missed my point. See the OP made the following statement.


Young at Heart said:


> It would be so much better if wives in unhappy marriages could work with their husbands to provide them that feeling of being needed, sexually desired, and having a horny woman to be with at night. Yes the husbands also need to work with their wives to make them feel like rebuilding their marriage.


Apparently, the OP thinks that the only reason that a man would be unhappy in a marriage is that his wife is not giving him enough sex. And apparently, the OP felt that this is a lesson that all women need to receive a lecture on… a lecture from the call-girls that their husbands cheat with.

I can tell you from my own life experience, that for many men, even having a wife who is high drive, ready for anything, anytime is not enough to keep them happy. Apparently, there are some number of men, a pretty good size number, who get all the sex they want from their wife. But they want something more… perhaps the excitement of something new, or something clandestine, etc. 

A lot of men who cheat and use prostitutes LIE about why they are doing it. Of course, when they are with their affair partners or prostitutes they play the game of telling her that it’s because their wife is a POS, cold *****. What else are they going to say, that their wife is wonderful, and they just want to destroy her while they are having fun? The linked article is about what men tell the women they pay for sex… do you expect them to say anything at all nice about their wife? Shoot, even if their wife is into hot monkey sex daily, the guy’s going to tell the call-girl some sob story to justify him being with her (the call girl). People who cheat lie. They lie to the person they are cheating with, they lie to their spouse and they lie to themselves.

There are things besides sex that cause problems in marriage. And it’s not always the woman who is the problem.

This is a thread about asshats… asshats who use call-girls/prostitutes and the lies/twisted stories about their wives that they tell... and the call-girls/prostitutes that they play this mean game with.

Sure some men who use call-girls/prostitutes are in marriages with a woman who does not appreciate what a wonderful man he is and who denies him sex. But I would bet that most of them have willing wives at home and they lie about it.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I have a relative that works in the probation service who mainly oversees prostitutes who have recently come out of prison and its her job to try and keep them out - she inevitably develops a close relationship with these women.
They are what many people would describe as low rent prostitutes (back of a taxi, pub toilets, down a dark alley). Work is plentiful and one woman claimed she can make £100 a day easy. Generally speaking these women are not typically 'sexy' nor great thespian actors. They are very poorly educated people, drug addled, often bruised and battered looking (I met one lady who had no front teeth), sometimes they have mild learning difficulties or mental illness. 

So if men crave adoration and insatiable horniness why do these women have permanent employment? 

Because they are cheap, readily available, non-intimidating, probably non-loveable....and therefore no need to involve a conscience.

High end escorts are somewhat different - charging for a fantasy. They are partly interactive entertainment and partly physical sex. I suspect much of the thrill for the client is doing something they are not supposed to be doing, making a fantasy reality. And for some I suspect it wouldn't really matter about what goes on in their marital bed...


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

My personal opinion is women cheat equally

And men denie equally.

But men complain about it because of the sterotype that women often withhold sex.and women don't because of the sterotype that men are such horn dogs and always want it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> *A lot of men who cheat and use prostitutes LIE about why they are doing it. *Of course, when they are with their affair partners or prostitutes they play the game of telling her that it’s because their wife is a POS, cold *****. What else are they going to say, that their wife is wonderful, and they just want to destroy her while they are having fun? The linked article is about what men tell the women they pay for sex… do you expect them to say anything at all nice about their wife? Shoot, even if their wife is into hot monkey sex daily, the guy’s going to tell the call-girl some sob story to justify him being with her (the call girl). People who cheat lie. They lie to the person they are cheating with, they lie to their spouse and they lie to themselves.


^^^This!!! This is exactly why I think the source of information is crucial. 

The author of this book is smart in that she wrote the book as a guide for other prostitutes to make more money. She didn't write a self help book for wives on keeping their husband's sexually satisfied. Why? Because she recognized that the reasons given by married men for seeing sex workers are probably exaggerated at best and lies at worst. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Those are points I happen to agree with @EleGirl

I was looking through or past the obvious and ugly situation at a true concept.

The idea/concept is valid even though it is actually, far more than likely, removed from those involved with the source of information.

I do disagree with the OP's opening statement. I sometimes get in my head too far and don't communicate well.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> Ah, you missed my point. See the OP made the following statement.
> 
> Apparently, the OP thinks that the only reason that a man would be unhappy in a marriage is that his wife is not giving him enough sex. And apparently, the OP felt that this is a lesson that all women need to receive a lecture on… a lecture from the call-girls that their husbands cheat with.
> 
> I can tell you from my own life experience, that for many men, even having a wife who is high drive, ready for anything, anytime is not enough to keep them happy. Apparently, there are some number of men, a pretty good size number, who get all the sex they want from their wife. But they want something more… perhaps the excitement of something new, or something clandestine, etc.


It's not about sex, it's about _sex_. Same word, two different meanings. Sex is never just about the physical in a good marriage. It's not about 'getting laid', getting off, etc. It's two people who genuinely want each other OR genuinely want to meet the other's needs. If "Husband A" wants some love and attention, but "Wife A" isn't in the mood for full-on sex, ideally she'd happily do something else. Emphasis on "happily". The same is true in reverse, gender-wise. More often than not, however, the other partner views that as being used - which, IMO, is wrong. Very wrong (in a good marriage, anyway). You could say the same thing about virtually anything one does for or with their partner - the willingness to meet those needs, whatever they are - happily. The preference is "with", not "for", but nonetheless.

In marriage, you don't want your partner to do things for you, especially reluctantly. You do want, however, them to do things for you, willingly. Because, ideally, they are getting something out of it.

I don't want my wife to give me blowjobs just because I feel like a blowjob. I want my wife to give me blowjobs because she wants to.

Rightly or wrongly, a prostitute "wants" to give you a blowjob, because they're getting something out of it.

When the "want to" disappears in a relationship or marriage (or was never there) that's when there's an issue, and an empty hole.

It's not about the blowjob. It's never about the blowjob. It's about the "want to".


* blowjob is a metaphor for basically anything in a relationship or marriage. It's not intended to be taken at face value and make this about blowjobs! Substitute whatever word or action is important or desirable in your own life.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

alexm said:


> In marriage, you don't want your partner to do things for you, especially reluctantly. You do want, however, them to do things for you, willingly. Because, ideally, they are getting something out of it.
> 
> I don't want my wife to give me blowjobs just because I feel like a blowjob. I want my wife to give me blowjobs because she wants to.
> 
> ...


 @alexm, I'm trying to grasp what you are saying here but it sounds like you would be happy knowing that your wife "wants" to fulfill your sexual needs because she needs a roof over her head or she wants to keep her kids full time or she wants to continue to be a stay at home mom, or any other reason (except actual "desire" for you)?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How delusional must a person be to believe that a prostitute/escort is hot for their bod?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Lila said:


> @alexm, I'm trying to grasp what you are saying here but it sounds like you would be happy knowing that your wife "wants" to fulfill your sexual needs because she needs a roof over her head or she wants to keep her kids full time or she wants to continue to be a stay at home mom, or any other reason (except actual "desire" for you)?


I can't speak for @alexm, but I can speak for me. Yes, of course, back when I was young and horny I would have been happy if my wife "wanted" to have sex for me for any reason at all. My being satisfied with her level of enthusiasm was certainly is not limited solely to wanting to because she has actual desire for me. Come on, no woman ever had actual desire for me. You might be tempted to say "then you should have worked on yourself until they did". I tried . I failed. Eventually I realized it was never going to happen. As it was, I would gladly have taken "wants to be a SAHM" over never wants to at all.

Now that I am older and "wiser," I am NOT happy knowing that my wife only wants to fulfill my sexual needs to stay married. so we don't have sex at all. Am I happier now than I was back when I was willing to accept sexual services motivated by economic fear? No, I am not happier or more proud of myself. Then again, I am a very messed up dude and anyone emulating my life choices is an idiot.



Blondilocks said:


> How delusional must a person be to believe that a prostitute/escort is hot for their bod?


That is why I only ever did that once. I couldn't delude myself sufficiently to enjoy it.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

MrsHolland said:


> I have friends that have and do but for them it is more about getting really good sex and a hot male body, not feeling desired.
> Oh and by the way the cost for male prostitutes (in Aus) is extremely expensive but they are apparently of extremely high quality.


The expense isn't universal. See my reply below. :grin2:



chillymorn69 said:


> Any woman can walk into a bar and walk out with a man willing to bang her in 5 mins.


Just because a woman may be horny doesn't mean she'll be able to find a man she is attracted to physically, who isn't an ass she can't stand to be in the presence of, and who has the skill to make the build up intense and the orgasm powerful.



EleGirl said:


> Yea, walking into a bar and screwing the first guy who agrees to it is not the way to get satisfying sex and to have it with someone who pretends to actually desire you. Nope that's the way to get a guy to use her body to get off himself and then do nothing for her.


That kind of sex is worse than no sex. If two people are using each other for sex they should both be getting something out of it!



chillymorn69 said:


> Lol
> 
> I suppose this is very true!
> 
> I just did a google search and found that women are using male escorts more frequently than ever before.


There are two well known business here in my area that cater to women seeking male prostitutes. One is a "nail salon" and the other is a "day spa" that offers "therapeutic massage". A local talk radio show on the subject that interviewed patrons and employees and determined most of the women who patronize these businesses are either single young-ish professionals with no time to socialize as they climb the career ladder or middle aged women who have recently divorced. Both groups say they use prostitutes instead of randomly pick up men because it's safer (in terms of potential for assault, creepy psycho stalkers, STD's ect.) and they are guaranteed to have the sex act(s) of their choice performed with a certain degree of skill. The fees range, but they claim the average is about $300 for 1.5 hrs.





EleGirl said:


> Of course women are using male prostitutes more than ever before these days...because there are a lot more women who now have the freedom to do so.


Women have taken on traditionally male roles and traditional male stresses. It's not really surprising some are also taking on traditional male stress relief behaviors.

BTW, folks, I have known some people who worked in the sex industry. A few strippers, a few hookers, and a couple who did porn a few times. Everybody at one time or another told me stories about being a sex worker. Of course, I had questions! Many interesting talks have been had. 

So, purely anecdotally, most men don't ask for oral because they aren't getting it at home. They ask for oral because they believe that the STD transmission risk is lower or non-existent and don't have to worry about accidentally impregnating a hooker. I also learned that, locally, most prostitutes charge for 1 to 1.5 hr blocks of time. They say that some customers do the usual polite greetings, do their thing, and bid the sex worker adieu. Others, the majority, want to talk like they're at the therapists office and be stroked/caressed/cuddled. They'll either have sex with the last few minutes or not at all. They claim most of the cuddle/talkers are married. One chick claimed she had a regular customer who'd meet her at a hotel, vent to her, and then just cry while she held him.

I never really believed that because I couldn't understand why someone married would want to visit a prostitute just to talk and cuddle outside of wartime or some other legit long separation until I cam here and read about the men and women who get no affection from the spouses they see every day and can sleep next to every night. Blew my mind.


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

Interesting. Maybe married men go to prostitutes for them to do things their wives won't do? I don't know. My wife will do things for me but sometimes I feel guilty for asking her to do it. The desire for it though never goes away. She said she is comfortable with it so the real problem must be in me? I believe it would severly damage my marriage to go to a prostitute or another woman. I would call myself happily marriage though I think we have differing sexual desires that have to be worked through.


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## UnicornCupcake (Dec 8, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> Having been in a sex starved marriage, this story really resonated with me as to what many men really want. It sounds like so many posts on TAM by lonely men.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that those needs are not out of line, BUT do you know how much **** we get from other women for doing these two things? 

Last night, for example, my husband was talking about more communication on the soccer field. He said to the guys that we have a very good group of coachable girls. I piped up by saying, "Yes, I pretty much do what my husband tells me to do in this regard. He's a fantastic player so I figured it's good advice to follow."
****. Hit. The. Fan. My friend went on and about how no man is going to tell her what to do and blah, blah, blah. Here I am thinking I'm ego stroking him only to be attacked and not offended. By ANYONE. It was annoying. I wish my husband said something. I don't know what, but I wish he said something. I even wish the other male players spoke up and said something, like "It's good to have a group of teammates willing to listen" or something along those lines. 
The next time you see a woman stroking a man's ego compliment her. It can get very difficult for us when society is trying to push the feminist movement.

Also, it can be very hard to show you want to **** the **** out of your man because you you display any attention in public you're a hoe. There are times I paw at my man at a party, on a night out, whatever, and the looks I get (mostly from other women) is enough to make me want to stop.

In sum, enable these behaviours. We need help doing them. There are more than enough horny women who want to show their men they need them, but it can be tough when you get attacked or feel like people are looking down on you for it. If I received more back-up during these moments I'd be more willing to do it.


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## UnicornCupcake (Dec 8, 2016)

Lila said:


> @alexm, I'm trying to grasp what you are saying here but it sounds like you would be happy knowing that your wife "wants" to fulfill your sexual needs because she needs a roof over her head or she wants to keep her kids full time or she wants to continue to be a stay at home mom, or any other reason (except actual "desire" for you)?


This is so true. You can bet your ass that hooker is working double time to make you cum so she can kick you TF out. She doesn't want you. She wants the money. Your wife wants something, too. I've been thinking about initiating blow jobs for foot rubs, but I'm not sure how that will go down, lol. We're both getting something we want.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> I can't speak for @alexm, but I can speak for me. Yes, of course, back when I was young and horny I would have been happy if my wife "wanted" to have sex for me for any reason at all. My being satisfied with her level of enthusiasm was certainly is not limited solely to wanting to because she has actual desire for me. Come on, no woman ever had actual desire for me. You might be tempted to say "then you should have worked on yourself until they did". I tried . I failed. Eventually I realized it was never going to happen. As it was, I would gladly have taken "wants to be a SAHM" over never wants to at all.
> 
> Now that I am older and "wiser," I am NOT happy knowing that my wife only wants to fulfill my sexual needs to stay married. so we don't have sex at all. Am I happier now than I was back when I was willing to accept sexual services motivated by economic fear? No, I am not happier or more proud of myself. Then again, I am a very messed up dude and anyone emulating my life choices is an idiot.
> 
> ...


 @Holdingontoit, it makes me so sad to read your posts. I can't help it. I really, really, really wish there was something I could say to help you in your situation but I don't know what that something would be. I do so hope you can find happiness in your life with or without your wife.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Lila said:


> ^^^This!!! This is exactly why I think the source of information is crucial.
> 
> The author of this book is smart in that she wrote the book as a guide for other prostitutes to make more money. She didn't write a self help book for wives on keeping their husband's sexually satisfied. Why? Because she recognized that the reasons given by married men for seeing sex workers are probably exaggerated at best and lies at worst.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Drat, I missed this when I was quoting.

The sex workers I've known say most men don't talk badly about their wives at all. They say things like "She's too busy taking care of the house and kids" or "I'm happy, but my wife doesn't like my kink", "I could NEVER as my wife to.... I respect her too much!" or "We're separated temporarily by distance for work/training/education/deployment and I'm so alone."

Thing is, how would a sex worker know the tales of happy marriage aren't lies, too? Just like some men wouldn't want to admit they're patronizing a prostitute when everything is fine at home, some men wouldn't want to admit that they are in a bad marriage for fear of being judged and shamed for being and staying in their bad situation.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Lila said:


> @Holdingontoit, it makes me so sad to read your posts. I can't help it. I really, really, really wish there was something I could say to help you in your situation but I don't know what that something would be. I do so hope you can find happiness in your life with or without your wife.


Don't be sad on my account. I am exactly where I want to be. Happiness is not what I am aiming for. If that is what you desire, I hope you find it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Ah, you missed my point. See the OP made the following statement.
> 
> Apparently, the OP thinks that the only reason that a man would be unhappy in a marriage is that his wife is not giving him enough sex. And apparently, the OP felt that this is a lesson that all women need to receive a lecture on… a lecture from the call-girls that their husbands cheat with.
> 
> ...


First, it is more than sex that makes a marriage, but as someone else said it is about sex and it is not about sex.

What I was trying to convey was from the perspective of when I was in a sex starved marriage (actually my wife said she would never have sex with me again and the few times she did, she used them to get me emotionally vulnerable and then emotionally hurt me).

So the reference point I was trying to comment from was one based on personal experience.

I didn't go to a prostitute, but I can understand the comment of wanting to feel, even if it would have been an illusion of being desired sexually.

You are right, there are lots of reasons why marriages fail and go bad and lots of things besides sex that cause problems in marriages. In fact I would wager that in most cases it is the other things that end up spilling over into and stopping sex. At least that was the case in my marriage crisis.

In my case a key to reconciling our marriage was to treat each other better outside the bedroom, but without the help of a sex therapist, my wife would have never initiated sex even once I started to start meeting her emotional needs.

For the record, I have not used a call-girl or prostitute. I thought about it, but decided to try to work on rebuilding my marriage. I think this post is about a newspaper article that reviews a book by a prostitute who says that some men who seek the services of prostitutes are not so into kinky sex as they are into feeling the illusion of being sexually desired. I think that is incredible insight to pass along. 

I know that I want to feel sexually desired and I am sure most wive do as well.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

alexm said:


> It's not about sex, it's about _sex_. Same word, two different meanings. Sex is never just about the physical in a good marriage....
> 
> ....In marriage, you don't want your partner to do things for you, especially reluctantly. You do want, however, them to do things for you, willingly. Because, ideally, they are getting something out of it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Well said.


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## UnicornCupcake (Dec 8, 2016)

Lila said:


> ^^^This!!! This is exactly why I think the source of information is crucial.
> 
> The author of this book is smart in that she wrote the book as a guide for other prostitutes to make more money. She didn't write a self help book for wives on keeping their husband's sexually satisfied. Why? Because she recognized that the reasons given by married men for seeing sex workers are probably exaggerated at best and lies at worst.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


This. Context is so important.
Take TAM for example.
Yes, we have a lot of well wishing people on here, but DAMN some of them are truly damaged. I'm verrrrry hesitant to listen to the wife who's husband cheated on her with a twentysomething preach about how physical appearance isn't everything... Um it was more than enough for your husband to leave you.
Or the man who had a wife have an office affair tell say all office relationships lead to cheating.
You get my meaning, but yes. CONTEXT.

That author is clearly a hustler. I mean, people who aren't even hooking bought it. Well done.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, you missed my point. See the OP made the following statement.
> ...


I'm not sure if you are agreeing with my above post or if you are disagreeing...

But IMO, what you wrote is expanding on what I wrote. But I don't understand why it was written to rebut what I said ... I read your response as you stating that even in the situation I describe in that quote.. the problem is the woman does not 'want to' have sex, desire sex with her husband. I'm confused.

Yes, when the "want to" disappears in a marriage it's a problem. 

And sometimes, a woman can have all the 'want to' in the world for sex with their husband and he just does not care. It's happens fairly often.... yes, there are a good number of men who do not care if their wife wants to have sex with them... I mean really desires sex with their husband... he is the one who has not desire to have sex with his wife and he is the one who is out using prostitutes and/or cheating in other ways.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed, but sometimes the response is "no". 



ConanHub said:


> An important detail is letting wives know what their husbands desire.
> 
> They are paying for an experience that, although an act, is what they need to feel.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It will not be the same, but some people can NEVER get that from their spouses no matter what they do. 

I'm happy to put up with all of life's problems and chores- and do so. Yet in 30 years of marriage I've almost never experienced desire or passion from my wife. 

A sex worker can't satisfy my desire to be desired - but I can sure see the appeal if I could suspend my disbelief. 



Lila said:


> Yes but will the experience ever be equal to having a spouse meet that need?
> 
> What I mean is that sex workers provide a service without expectation of reciprocation in a very stress free (controlled) environment. she's there to service her client for however long he paid her to service him. There's no kids running about that have to be cared for, no bills to worry about, no housework, no leaky roofs, on and on. It's the same type of ideal situation cheaters experience. They get to have fun times without the worries.
> 
> That's not how real relationships work. It's a give and take that typically happens in a stress filled environment. A wife could never compete with a sex worker long term. That's why I said that the book is not written as a guide for couples to improve their sex life. It's the same reason why a sex worker would have no use for a book like 'His Needs, Her Needs". Apples to Oranges.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think that in general you are right, and the problem certainly exists for men and women. 

It is possible though that its easier (not easy) for women to find casual sex than for men to do so. I would think that if there were a large market for male prostitutes, there would be more of them. 

It may also be historical - in the past men had a lot more opportunities to use prostitutes and the market just hasn't caught up. 







EleGirl said:


> Well then, you know exactly what it feels like for a woman who is in a relationship with a man who does not want sex with her and how cannot carve out of his time to meet her emotional needs. I really don't see this as a male only problem. It's every bit as much a problem for women.
> 
> The difference is that it's more socially acceptable for men to seek out call girls and prostitutes to get some of that fantasy.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there are a number of different situations. 

There are men who have otherwise good relationships at home including good sex lives but who for selfish reasons want sex on the side. 

There are men who have good sex lives at home but want some kink etc that there wives won't satisfy. 

There are men who have lost interest in their lives- for good or bad reasons - and want sex.

There are men who for no fault of their own are being denied sex at home and don't wan't to live celibate.


The argument that they should just divorce may not be valid- there are often a lot of other issues in a marriage.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Lila said:


> @alexm, I'm trying to grasp what you are saying here but it sounds like you would be happy knowing that your wife "wants" to fulfill your sexual needs because she needs a roof over her head or she wants to keep her kids full time or she wants to continue to be a stay at home mom, or any other reason (except actual "desire" for you)?


lol, no!

I don't bother my wife about bj's, for example, because I know she doesn't want to give me one (often). It would awesome if she did!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I want my wife to appreciate all I do for her and to actively enjoy pleasing me. I want her to desire me because she thinks I'm a wonderful person. 

I can't get that from a prostitute so I won't hire one. I could get a prostitute to *pretend* to do that, and for some people I can see how that would be enough. 

btw - the first paragraph is how I treat my wife.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure if you are agreeing with my above post or if you are disagreeing...
> 
> But IMO, what you wrote is expanding on what I wrote. But I don't understand why it was written to rebut what I said ... I read your response as you stating that even in the situation I describe in that quote.. the problem is the woman does not 'want to' have sex, desire sex with her husband. I'm confused.
> 
> ...


By "want to", I mean because they are receiving something from it - not laundry duty, foot rubs, or "stuff" - I mean a sense of happiness by making their partner happy.

Marriage IS transactional, no matter how much we try and say it's not, but I, and pretty much anybody who's married, wants a partner who WANTS to do things, make them happy, etc. Because, ostensibly, hopefully, they will receive the same treatment and consideration and drive to make THEM happy.

Barring that - which is VERY common - I can somewhat, sort of, kind of understand someone's mindset for visiting a prostitute. Despite the transaction of money, they're still willing to do whatever-it-is the client is looking for. Willing. Not reluctant. Do they CARE about the client? No, of course not. No more than the plumber who comes to fix your toilet cares about your house. BUT, they care about the job they're doing, as well as your opinion of them, and your over all satisfaction/happiness with the job.

When you really dig deep, it's all the same. I want to make my wife happy in any way possible that she desires because she will, well, be happy. That benefits me. It's a transaction. Therefore, it makes me happy to make her happy. Very simple. I also go the extra mile for my clients at all times, because I want to make them happy. It's not JUST about the pay cheque, or the repeat business.

Ask any woman who freely and regularly gives blowjobs to their husband/partner. Is it because they really, really like having a penis in their mouth? Most of the time, no, of course not. They're HAPPY, some even excited, to do it because it makes their partner happy. It's all a big circle.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I just want to say sometimes it is just about a blow job!


Just sayin.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

For quite some time I've said women don't know what they want. I guess asshats (men) don't know what they want either.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> Ask any woman who freely and regularly gives blowjobs to their husband/partner. Is it because they really, really like having a penis in their mouth? Most of the time, no, of course not. They're HAPPY, some even excited, to do it because it makes their partner happy. It's all a big circle.


What?? :scratchhead:

I'm surprised to read you saying this. You aren't aware that MANY women, especially those who "love giving blow jobs" actually ARE happy to have our man's penis in our mouths? That's bizarre.

Is it not evident that men who love going down on a woman also love the bits of her he can get in his mouth? Or would you say he just does it to make her happy but doesn't actually enjoy the mouth-on-bits part?

Granted plenty of women do not want to give blow jobs or may only give them to make him happy...I've also heard of men who aren't that into going down but do it to make her happy. But the vast majority of people I've ever heard speak of their own preferences who claim they LOVE giving oral sex *also* love the act itself and for women (and gay men) that obviously means loving having a penis in their mouth.

I mean....that's the FUN part of it. Having it in your mouth is like giving it a luscious oral hug, and it pulses and responds and that energy exchanges with the tissues in your mouth, which can cause pulses and responses in your own body, not only your mouth but other parts of your body including your sex organs. Some women (and gay men) can have an orgasm from *giving* a blow job. Gotta assume the penis in mouth part is a really great part of the experience for those people or else how could this even happen?

Personally, I do not ever crave "a" penis in my mouth as just a stand alone statement. That would imply I'd enjoy any penis or a random penis in my mouth. I don't ever think something like "oh I sure wish I had a penis in my mouth right now" if I'm single and not seeing anyone, though I do sometimes think "gosh I'm horny, wish I had a partner and a sex life" which is totally different. 

But if I've entered a sexual relationship with a man, by that time I have already determined that I love his penis enough to move forward...and that's going to mean I will love having it in my mouth because oral is a lovely part of sex for me.

I think for some (straight) men it may be hard to comprehend that a penis in the mouth could be at all fun or sexy because if they imagine the experience as the giver, they are immediately turned off and can't imagine how a woman would feel any different about it. I have heard of (straight) women saying similar, and have not wanted to receive oral sex because they think it would be so gross for him to have a face full of vulva. 

To me that's a sad mind set but it happens.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

*Young at Heart
It would be so much better if wives in unhappy marriages could work with their husbands to provide them that feeling of being needed, sexually desired, and having a horny woman to be with at night. Yes the husbands also need to work with their wives to make them feel like rebuilding their marriage.*

If men want__________________ (fill in the blank) from prostitutes I would imagine he would want about the same thing/s from his W.

To me, some of the replies were WAY off base if anyone knows "Young at Heart's" history. Young at Heart lived through a lot of rejections. Being rejected is the opposite of feeling needed, desired, and wanted. I took YAH's post as it is good to feel being needed, desired, and wanted

If a W or H has a negative attitude about sexual interactions it often defeats the sex and other close emotional interactions the couple have IE a relationship can be a real "downer." BTDT.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have experienced being deeply desired, and have of course felt and expressed deep desire, with several partners. I know what it feels like, and I couldn't enter a relationship without it.

I can imagine going to a male prostitute to get a crazy awesome sex experience and/or to experience his amazing body, but I can't imagine doing it to feel he desired me. I wouldn't even think about if he desired me or not, it would be irrelevant, I would just be there for the act and/or his body.

However.....if I try to imagine what I would feel like if I had NEVER experienced being strongly desired. If I had been with only 1 partner for decades, and had never felt that amazing give-and-take that occurs when you and your partner deeply desire each other...I would be longing for it so badly that yeah, I might in fact want to experience even the illusion of being desired and may even pay for it if it appeared there was literally zero chance of me getting it from someone out of true desire. I would still want to experience it "in fantasy" that way, I think.

For those who do not feel desired by your spouse...I am sorry, that must be a horrible feeling. I wouldn't be able to do it. If I went through life and never felt that wonderful mutual deep desire, I would break in half. I don't know how you do it....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife; said:


> Personally, I do not ever crave "a" penis in my mouth as just a stand alone statement. That would imply I'd enjoy any penis or a random penis in my mouth. I don't ever think something like "oh I sure wish I had a penis in my mouth right now" if I'm single and not seeing anyone, though I do sometimes think "gosh I'm horny, wish I had a partner and a sex life" which is totally different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> What?? :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm surprised to read you saying this. You aren't aware that MANY women, especially those who "love giving blow jobs" actually ARE happy to have our man's penis in our mouths? That's bizarre.
> 
> ...


Amen, Sister! Sing it!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I think that in general you are right, and the problem certainly exists for men and women.
> 
> It is possible though that its easier (not easy) for women to find casual sex than for men to do so. I would think that if there were a large market for male prostitutes, there would be more of them.
> 
> It may also be historical - in the past men had a lot more opportunities to use prostitutes and the market just hasn't caught up.


I believe it's both historical and societal. 

Women are still labeled and ostracized for having more than some magic small number of sex partners. What do you think the stigma would be for a woman who paid for a male prostitute? Certainly far worse than the stigma for a man who uses a prostitute. Sounds like a good topic for thread.


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## Jethro (Aug 16, 2013)

I can absolutely understand the motivations of a husband who wants only to feel desired by his partner. My wife and I (married 33 years) have often had conversations about why it isn't just a "mechanical" (her word) process for me, that feeling she is enjoying the experience and not just waiting for me to finish is critical.

There are lots of compounding factors for me/us that I have posted about before, but feeling desired sexually is something I would very much like to experience again. 

And that doesn't mean being with someone who just wants to please me. To me that is more like prostitution. I want it to be a mutually sensual, pleasurable, and satisfying experience, not something done just to make me feel better. Sure there will also be times when we have "maintenance sex" which isn't the height of eroticism, but not ever feeling like your wife can't keep her hands off of you is debilitating to one's sexual enjoyment and confidence.

Do I condone using prostitutes? No, not really. Far too many prostitutes are exploited or worse. Do I understand why a man might engage with an attractive higher end escort to experience the fantasy of being desired? Absolutely. 

I often have such fantasies when I have sex with my wife. My name for it is vaginal masturbation. From a purely experiential level, how is that much different than being with a professional who is skilled at pulling off the fantasy?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Personally, I do not ever crave "a" penis in my mouth as just a stand alone statement.* That would imply I'd enjoy any penis or a random penis in my mouth. I don't ever think something like "oh I sure wish I had a penis in my mouth right now" if I'm single and not seeing anyone, though I do sometimes think "gosh I'm horny, wish I had a partner and a sex life" which is totally different.
> 
> But *if I've entered a sexual relationship with a man, by that time I have already determined that I love his penis* enough to move forward...and *that's going to mean I will love having it in my mouth* because oral is a lovely part of sex for me.


The bolded part is exactly what I meant.


*edited to expand

Most people, men or women, want their partners body, not just a random persons. It is because of that person that you crave this. It is your _partners_ penis that you desire (in your mouth, for ex.)

You know darn well that I am in full agreement with you (I usually am), often we just have a different way of saying the same things! Either that, or I don't express myself in a way that is clear to you, FW.

I am using BJ's only as an example, as I am a man, and it resonates to me. As I said, I don't want a BJ from someone who doesn't want to give me one. That defeats the purpose. In fact, I don't want anyone to do anything for me if it is reluctant.

I remember, as a young adult, a girl offered me a BJ if I drove her home from a party one night. I declined her offer, but drove her home anyway. If she had gone about it in a different way - like offer to give me a BJ as thanks, _after_ I drove her home, I may very well have accepted. "Do this for me and I'll do this for you" - no thanks. But, "Thanks for doing this for me, let me thank you" - okay. It's still transactional, more or less, but the "want" is at least there in the latter, know what I mean?

Unfortunately, many men and women simply do not view things (like BJs) as a positive, mutual act. It IS mutual, or can be. Some us get that. You get that, FW. I get it, too. May others do not, unfortunately, and often to the detriment of a relationship.

So, as usual, we are saying the same thing here, just in a different way.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> The bolded part is exactly what I meant.
> 
> 
> *edited to expand
> ...


No, I don't think we are saying the same thing this time, Alex.

You are still making some point about the penis in mouth part of it being just something a woman does in order to get her man off, get him to like her, or get her to give her something.

I disagree, and I have been confused by a few other posts (I think on this thread) of yours that were saying that all sex and relationships are essentially transactional. I just don't agree, don't feel that way, and love the actual "penis in mouth" part of oral sex.

I feel that in your marriages sex was/is highly transactional, and then your example of the girl who offered to blow you for a ride home, you have learned early that this is how some women will express their sexuality.

But the things you are describing and the way you feel about it....don't represent my feelings at all, and so I'm chalking it up to having had such different experiences, we aren't really on the same page on this one. For example....when I read your story about the girl offering the bj for a ride, I was thinking back to similar times in my youth when I actually WANTED to experience the penis in various ways and was actively trying to find an excuse to ask a young man to whip his out for me. I may have made such an offer myself, but I would have only said it that way because I did not know how to say "hey I'm sexually curious and want to try different things, would you mind playing with me?"


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That would be a good thread - do you want to start it?

There is a strange additional twist: While women are generally looked down on for having too many partners, they receive much less negative reaction for same-sex interactions. If two women get drunk and kiss each other it often viewed as funny / hot. Imagine if two guys did that. Even in places where homosexuality is accepted, I think the guys would still be labeled as "gay". 

(or maybe I'm wrong). 



EleGirl said:


> I believe it's both historical and societal.
> 
> Women are still labeled and ostracized for having more than some magic small number of sex partners. What do you think the stigma would be for a woman who paid for a male prostitute? Certainly far worse than the stigma for a man who uses a prostitute. Sounds like a good topic for thread.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think people are talking from personal experience. I know that while my wife will very occasionally give me a little bit of oral, she finds the idea pretty repulsive and only does it to try to please me. There are a fair number (probably not a majority) of women who feel like that. Anyone who has only had women who feel like that as partners might well assume that most women who give oral do it only to please their partners. 

As a straight guy I can understand that giving oral to a man could be enjoyable, but its not something I can really internalize. (um..perhaps wrong choice of word :wink2. 

Years of experience with someone who hates it can bias one's view. 

I enjoy giving my wife oral, but there it really is about her reaction. I would have no interest in doing it if she didn't actively enjoy it. I'm sure men run the range from strongly disliking giving oral to actively enjoying it. 





Faithful Wife said:


> What?? :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm surprised to read you saying this. You aren't aware that MANY women, especially those who "love giving blow jobs" actually ARE happy to have our man's penis in our mouths? That's bizarre.
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I disagree, and I have been confused by a few other posts (I think on this thread) of yours that were saying that all sex and relationships are essentially transactional. I just don't agree, don't feel that way, and love the actual "penis in mouth" part of oral sex.





Faithful Wife said:


> Personally, I do not ever crave "a" penis in my mouth as just a stand alone statement. That would imply I'd enjoy any penis or a random penis in my mouth. I don't ever think something like "oh I sure wish I had a penis in my mouth right now" if I'm single and not seeing anyone, though I do sometimes think "gosh I'm horny, wish I had a partner and a sex life" which is totally different.


I'm clearly not understanding what you're saying, then. :| My bad, I guess.

It's interesting (and I mean that), because this is not the first time I - or other people - have basically agreed with you, only to have you reply in such a way that says "you're not understanding what I'm saying" or "I don't agree with you".

I am positive I agree with you on this.

So is it you, or is it me? :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree, and I have been confused by a few other posts (I think on this thread) of yours that were saying that all sex and relationships are essentially transactional. I just don't agree, don't feel that way, and love the actual "penis in mouth" part of oral sex.
> ...


Ok let's try to clear this up.

This should be pretty easy.

Yes or no - - do you think women who love giving oral somehow love it without loving having a penis in their mouth?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

My opinion is just from my personal experiances.

The vast majority of women don't like a penis in their mouth.

But the ones that do really like it.

And the vast majority of men I know love eating fur pie.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

I had a bigger reply here, but I will keep it simple. 

Hubby #1: I hated having my ex hubby's penis in my mouth, kept that to a bare minimum. Maybe a few kisses on it here and there, that was it. One bj to completion at his insistence. I was always open to regular sex though, never refused him. 

In general I was young, not very experienced, he didn't treat me very well. I loved my ex hubby for most the years we were together too. But he was never interested in anything beyond wham bam thank you maam and wasn't good at awakening my sex drive. Eventually it got to the point I felt like all he cared about was getting off and it wasn't even a "love making" experience. Wasn't interested in learning how to get me to climax. No I didn't love his penis, I don't think I ever initiated sex either unless I wanted attention. 


Hubby #2: Treats me great, always telling me how gorgeous and beautiful I am, no matter how much I weigh, no matter how old I think I am getting. 

It took a while to be more adventurous, but I love having his penis in my mouth. Bj to completion is a rare occasion. But I always give him oral as a warm up. Lots of oral. Sometimes he has to tell me to "stop". Usually he likes to do oral on me first and manual stimulation to climax. I could wait and then give him his turn, but he always gets me so turned on I want to start sucking him right then.

I love his penis. I love him. It's not a random penis thing, and it's not even just an I love him thing. This man turns me on and I want to please him as much as possible! And it is a turn on giving him oral while he is giving me oral.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

A theme here, if I am correct skimming the posts, is that often a woman likes giving oral not because of this penis, but because of the qualities of the man it is connected to. 

Tamat


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I think that in general you are right, and the problem certainly exists for men and women.
> 
> It is possible though that its easier (not easy) for women to find casual sex than for men to do so. I would think that if there were a large market for male prostitutes, there would be more of them.
> 
> It may also be historical - in the past men had a lot more opportunities to use prostitutes and the market just hasn't caught up.


It's not a simple question of supply and demand. You have to do the full cost/benefit analysis. Then you will understand that both the demand and the supply are actually roughly the same. They are just branded differently. And have some different distribution outlets.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> A theme here, if I am correct skimming the posts, is that often a woman likes giving oral not because of this penis, but because of the qualities of the man it is connected to.
> 
> Tamat


I like it when I'm aroused. Just for the pure feeling of it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok let's try to clear this up.
> 
> This should be pretty easy.
> 
> Yes or no - - do you think women who love giving oral somehow love it without loving having a penis in their mouth?


I greatly enjoy eating *****. Doesn't mean I'd do it for anyone. It's even more enjoyable when it's a person I love, or at least like a lot. Not all men get off by doing this, but will do it for their partner if they desire it. Some men will not do it at all, ever.

We're on the same page.


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## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

Here's the answer to the frustrated women out there!


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