# Fiance wants to separate. Need advice



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi everyone,
I needed to talk and was hoping others could help me best handle myself during this difficult time.
My Fiance(female) has told me that she wants to break up. We have a beautiful 1 year old daughter and purchased a home together during the pregnancy. She is 38 years old, I am 30. We have been together for about 2.5 years. She was previously married for a couple years, I have never been married. 
I thought that we were going through a bit of a rut for a few weeks and I finally asked her if everything was ok. She told me how she was feeling and says that she is not happy and no longer loves me. She will not consider staying and we have seen a therapist once a week for the past 2 weeks since this happened and she will not reconsider. She now admits that she only went to make it easier for me. 
We have talked a lot since then and she feels that our daughter will be better off if we are not together because of how her parent's divorce went. Her mother had serious alcohol abuse problems and her father was unwilling to make any changes with his own problems. She sees their attempt at staying together to be more damaging and assumes that is how it would be for us. We do not argue often and when we do it is only about us not being intimate enough at times. I have told her that I refuse to leave my daughter and that our child deserves to see both of us everyday. We have decided that for now we will be staying in separate rooms and that we are no longer together and that she does NOT want to try in any way. Her point of view is that life is short and she deserves to be happy, which is a valid point. I see it as life is short and we should try to do whatever we can to try to make it work and have all of us be happy. She sees me trying to make it work as invalidating her feelings and that she deserves to be happy regardless of the cost. I want her to be happy but I can't help that I want to fight for my family.
I need to know if there is anything that I can do at all to help our situation. There is no changing her mind, I've tried so hard without begging or getting angry. She says she has felt this way since a few weeks after our daughter was born and that she has already done all of the trying that she can and has no desire anymore.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

She says she is under so much pressure and feels so guilty all of the time. I'm not saying anything to make her feel guilty but a lot of people are telling her to "think of the baby" and give it another chance. She says that all the baby talk is "emotional blackmail" and refuses to see it any other way.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Is she cheating?

Have you checked?

You know you have to look into it, right?


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If it truly started right after the baby was born, post-partum depression is the first suspect. But even if you know the cause, she still has to want to fix it.

Has she given you any ideas of what she needed for you to change? Have you tried to improve yourself?

C


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

She's not cheating. I know shes honest about that, I've been through it before a few times in other relationships so I know when to worry. But I do believe she is willing to find someone else, maybe even interested in finding someone else. 
As far as things she wanted me to change it involves doing more things around the house, not enough to make her feel loved, not enough little things. I've tried so hard lately but it doesn't actually do any good right now. It's either obviously trying too hard or reminding her of me not doing it in the past. Either way she says its not going to change how she feels.
She occasionally lets her emotions show and she admits that there was a time when she wanted those things or even a time that it could have helped. She says she doesn't trust that it will change and that once I'm comfortable again it will all go to how it was.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

At this point I'm just pestering her. She's willing to talk (to a point) but not willing to change her decision. I feel like if I stop trying to fix it then she will completely give up and move on. I feel so betrayed and hurt that my partner is bailing out on me. I feel rejected. I'm terrified that she will meet someone else. I'm terrified that she will probably never give us another chance. I've always been so happy knowing that our daughter would grow up in her own home with two loving parents and that dream seems so lost now.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The woman is 38 and has apparently never had a relationship that lasted over three years. What makes you think she's even capable of doing so? I'm sorry for my bluntness and I'm sorry you have a child with her but if I met a woman who had only kept a marriage going 2 years, I'd do some serious investigating. I'd especially do so if she was nearly 40 and had no history of long-term relationship success. If a 38 year old car had never gone over 2000 miles without an engine overhaul, would you want to buy it? If you did buy such a car, what could you, as a driver, do to make it last a lifetime?


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear of your struggle. If she does have her mind made up as you claim then it will not be something you can change. As PBear mentioned "she still has to want to fix it".

You cannot change others you can only change yourself.

I hope the best for you.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

In her defense, her relationship history was one of the reasons why I felt safe settling down with her. She dated guy number 1 for about 4 years after high school, he broke it off. She dated guy number 2 for seven years and she broke it off. A couple years of years alone and/or dating and then she reconnected with guy number 1 and they were together about 3 years and married for 2.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Her husband left her, giving no reason at the time but it was partly for another woman. Not saying it is the best history but more stable than many.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

We learn how to be parents and spouses mostly by watching our parents. Where would she have learned what a normal relationship looked like? She couldn't find happiness in the 35 years before you married her? Your daughter is 1 so she was either pregnant or a mother for at least 21 of the 30 months you have been with her. At the very most, she had only 9 months of dating/living with you time but she's convinced that you are the only thing standing between her and being giddy-happy? Why wasn't she giddy-happy before she met you and got pregnant? Who's fault was that?


----------



## LovingHusband414 (Feb 8, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> We learn how to be parents and spouses mostly by watching our parents. Where would she have learned what a normal relationship looked like? She couldn't find happiness in the 35 years before you married her? Your daughter is 1 so she was either pregnant or a mother for at least 21 of the 30 months you have been with her. At the very most, she had only 9 months of dating/living with you time but she's convinced that you are the only thing standing between her and being giddy-happy? Why wasn't she giddy-happy before she met you and got pregnant? Who's fault was that?


I realized when I read this that my W was pregnant then a mom 11 months out of the 18 months we were together before separating earlier this year. Very interesting way to look at that and definitely something to think about.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

So you have checked her phone and emails? To make sure she is not cheating.

If not, it could be depression.

But you need to do a 180 on her, so she knows what she will be missing, rather then begging her to stay, which may puch her further away.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

In response to the last few replies...
I think that she refuses to see the times that we were happy or the potential value of the relationship. Many times she compares our relationship to that of her and her ex-husband. How happy they were together (forgets the cheating and abandonment). I guess it was more about how he made her feel like she was always loved when they were together. She will say in one breath how they NEVER fought and then say how he would always just shut down when there was a problem and she doesn't even put 2 and 2 together.
As far as her fidelity is concerned, she is an odd woman. She doesn't get jealous ever, not with any of her previous relationships, not with me. Nor did I ever give her any reason to be. She just has a strange way of thinking that is different from anyone I've ever met. She is extremely blunt when she is talking, not in a purposely hurtful way. She does not hide things (other than this planned breakup). I just don't see her not telling me if that were the case. I have not gone so far as to check her phone or computer and I am not going to at this point as it would not change my situation.
I feel like I need to do a 180 as I have no other hope and it is doing nothing but hurting me to keep it going as it currently is. I need help on how to do this and if this is truly what I should do. We are going to continue living in the same house and we still sit together and all I can do is talk to her about working it out and its not helping. She will not reconsider.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

As of monday we are officially broken up. I've told her where I stand but that I will respect her decision. This has taken a lot of pressure off the situation and we are now acting towards each other about the same as before all this happened. She has been sleeping in our bed. I have been sleeping on the couch (we normally both sleep on the couch together). We are very friendly with each other and have a lot of fun just talking. 
But, I am heartbroken without being able to touch her and kiss her. 
I am determined to do whatever it takes to get her back. I'm trying to be fun, spontaneous, silly, and positive whenever I'm around her. What will get her to reconsider? She did not want to try at all. 
She had no interest in working on it. I tried so hard to do everything to make her happy and I now know that I was only pushing her further away before.

Someone please tell me if there is a technique that works when someone suddenly makes up her mind so finally. How can I act towards her that will make her think positively of me again?


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

I'm ready to get serious about handling this the right way. I won't let my emotions get in the way. I want to tell her I love her every minute we're together but instead I've switched to complements throughout the day. This has been helpful as she responds much better to the complements than she does my desperate attempts to convince her. I've seen all of the "programs" you can purchase online but I don't know if any of them will help.


----------



## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Oh god. It's me four months ago.

If you are serious about doing this right, let go right now. I refused to listen and was trying to show 'Mrs.C how much I was willing to do to make it work. Fail. I engaged and took an interest in her day, I complimented her. Fail.

If she is gone, she is gone. All you are doing is being needy and showing her she can do whatever she wants and you'll be there with open arms as plan B.

I did the in house thing for a while, again ignoring this next piece of advice.. Get out now or tell her to. In house is painful. She gets all the advantages of married life with none of the work and commitment, you get to feel miserable. Nice and fair?

Make it real. It will hurt but it is the only way. As to seeing kid every day? I'm all for that, I moved 10 minute walk away and see just as much of my boys as when I lived there. You don't have to live there to be a full time parent. As has been said so many times to me by others.. The more you do the less she is having to deal with the consequences of her decision and the less chance there is of her missing what she had with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She wants a divorce? She leaves, not him. Do not leave your home.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You've got to stop this.

Go 180, don't compliment her.
Don't have anything to do with her beyond the kid.

Start checking her email and cell phone.

You're in denial about her ability to cheat.
The vast majority of times a woman does what yours has done there is another man somewhere waiting in the wings.

Find him or eliminate the possibility of him before you can do anything else.

You're being her doormat and women don't find doormats attractive.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

I have stopped going overboard with things around the house. I have successfully not brought up "us" in 3 days as bad as I want to spend every second begging her to reconsider. Yesterday while at work I texted her and suggested that we take our daughter to do something fun the next day (today). I said "nothing about us, just our daughter having a nice time with her mommy and daddy". She said "That sounds nice, I'm free all day" and I suggested a fun little kid's museum center kind of place and she agreed. 
So today we went to leave and she hopped in to the passenger seat of her car (she usually drives). We spent the 40 min drive talking and joking. We got there and had fun playing with all the stuff there. While we were there and headed through a crowded lobby I accidentally put my hand around her waist without even realizing it and led her ahead of me. She didn't pull away or say anything. We took a lot of nice pictures there. Later on before we left we did some picture drawing thing with the baby and they have a sign up asking for donations. I was already pulling a couple of bucks out my pocket when she asks "Do you have a dollar hunny?" and I gave her the money and just let it slide without saying anything. We left and had plans to go somewhere for lunch nearby so we went and got lunch and then stopped at the store for a couple of things we needed. The trip home was the same, talking and joking.
When we got home she was a little more all business though. We sat around on the couch looking at random crap on the computer for a bit, just talking about anything other than "us". I want so badly to say something. But I know that would just undo any positive thoughts that she might have about today. I'm going to try my best to just keep quiet and positive without being a pathetic mess.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thought it might be going ok. Nothings changed. We had our 3rd appt with our couples counselor tomorrow but since the actual breakup neither of us has talked about this upcoming appointment. I didnt want to bring it up today because I figured it would do more harm than good if we went. But just know she asked if we were going. I asked what would the goal be of us going. She said she didn't know. I told her that she knows where I stand. We aren't going to go but if I wanted to I know I could get her to go with me. I think it would be a bad idea though. So now I'm back to wanting to push her again. There's also the option of one of us going alone. She has expressed an interest in going. I agree that there are underlying issues on her side and that she will need some type of therapy at some point. But I'd rather not have her go and just prove her own point to herself even more. On the other hand I could probably use it myself right now.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

This morning we had a bit of an argument and we started talking about money and how we were going to take care of everything. She asked how we were going to split up the bills if we are going to stay in the same house. I got a little hurt of course because I am still hoping things will turn around. 
The ownership of the house is a little tricky in that this was her family home before we met. She grew up in this house and ownership is split 3 ways with us and her dad with rights of survivorship to the survivors if any of us die. He doesn't live here and he is in his 70s. He also doesn't contribute to the mortgage per se but he does pay for various large projects around the house. She sees this house as her inheritance given early and has always thought of it more as hers than ours.
Anyway, this morning during the slightly heated argument, she mentioned that one of her fears is that down the road I may meet someone else and it would be absolutely impossible to continue living in the house together. Or that if I choose to leave at some point later on the equity on the house will be much higher and she will be forced to buy me out at a rate that would be impossible. I told her that I have been very careful not to bring things up or force her in the last few days but that I still love her and would never do anything to "screw her over" as she put it. She said that I have already said things to hurt her in the last couple of weeks, by which she means the few times we have discussed my desire for physical custody of our daughter. Which would have absolutely nothing to do with keeping her(the ex) around. If I were offered the opportunity to leave tonight and take my daughter with me I would be gone in an hour.
So I went off to work and was thinking of texting her and didn't. Within 2 hours of being at work I got a text from her saying "I'm sorry for this morning". This was the 1st time she's done that which shows me she is at least thinking of things when I'm not around and is showing some sort of involvement in the situation rather than complete detachment. I said thank you and that I was also sorry. She texted back that we can talk more tonight.
When I got home she actually seemed happy to see me, she was in a good mood, and asked how my day was. Right now she's making us dinner and I'm playing with the baby. 
I think the best possible scenario aside from a total reconciliation would be if we were to somehow become great friends and be able to live together with our daughter. There have been many times in the past that I wasn't sure of my feelings for her, wasn't particularly attracted to her, was unhappy etc. It's just so hard to see that now because all i see when I look at her is the most beautiful woman in the world. Someone who I was supposed to spend my whole life with. I'm still not sure if I can get over those feelings.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Well, I had to do it and checked her email and phone. Nothing in e-mail (she deletes everything after she reads it, always has, hates clutter). Checked phone, lots of texts from girls at work about random stuff. Nothing suspicious at all that I could find. A little trash talking about me but thats the worst that I saw.
We talked a little tonight after dinner and things got really really really bad fast. Tons of I'm going to need to contact her lawyer talk from her. She called me a bad father, she said everything I've done reeks of desperation. She says a slideshow I made of pictures of our daughter that I put online made me look pathetic. 

I think I'm done with her now. As bad as she thinks I've been or may have been I've never intentionally tried to hurt her in any way. I would never do this to her or say anything like this to her. I think it has gotten to the point where things have been said and done that I will not be able to forgive and that I shouldn't forgive.


----------



## gssteve (Mar 26, 2013)

Wow i am in an almost replica situation! NO JOKE. I just want to let you know other ppl out there too. I'm 26, she is 23 knew ea other in HS. We dated for 4 months then she got pregnant, together for 2.5 years now. My fiance and I have been "separated" for 2 months, I just closed escrow on a house and we were about to move out. and we have a 2 yr old son. My fiance is not talking to anybody for sure and she still hasnt come around. It's been rough and like you I haven't really stopped mentioning "us" and the times I don't mention us we're ok. I still see my son everyday and stay there till he falls asleep and spend nights at weekends at her parents. Stay strong, it hurts like hell and I'm doing everything I can to try and get her back. Going to really start giving her space and doing 180s


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you, I'm really sorry that you are also going through such an awful situation. I read somewhere recently that it is impossible to simultaneously prepare yourself for trying to fix it and for choosing to move forward. This whole time I wanted to save my family. I wanted to do this for the baby, for me, and for her. I thought it was such a noble cause but you know what I'm figuring out is that you can't try to save someone from themself. I can't look at this as me trying to save her from regret and losing something great that she should have. She needs to figure it out on her own or not at all. There is no other way. If she figures it out it will be me that needs to decide to give her another chance. I know that I can be better and if it works out that we try again only then will it be the time to act. In the meantime I need to remember that I'm not a failure for "giving up". I'm not the one that isn't trying. I'm not the one letting my family down.I had a good night at my mom's with the baby. I got a haircut which was badly needed and for the first time in weeks I am feeling really good about myself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## forlorn99 (May 20, 2012)

Read no more mr nice guy ASAP!


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks Forlorn, Do you mean the book by Dr. Robert Glover? I found a copy online and plan on reading some tonight. 

After my really good mood and feeling good post yesterday evening she came home from work just seconds after I laid down on the couch to relax. I was hoping she would come home after I had already fallen asleep. She came right down and was all happy to see me, wanted to talk about her day. She complimented my haircut, she had actually cut her hair a little yesterday too.

I actually for the first time wanted to tell her to go away. I was feeling good about myself and she kind of ruined my good mood by coming downstairs and sitting there looking pretty. I acted slightly disinterested (because I was). I made small talk at best. She was there for about 5-10 minutes and said she was going to bed and I said ok goodnight. She actually seemed a little taken back that I didn't try to push her on anything or act sad that she was leaving. Halfway up the stairs she turned back and said "Your hair looks good" and I said thanks without returning the compliment and off she went. It felt good to not give in to my feelings this time.

I was a little sad throughout the night and morning because I saw her but today at work I was busy (had a big transmission replacement job to keep me occupied for a bit). I felt better than usual at work which is a good thing. I have decided to regain the 10-15 pounds I've lost in the last few weeks. Time to make some self improvements. Taking it a day at a time.


----------



## forlorn99 (May 20, 2012)

I recommend reading it more than once. I have read it three times now its not very long. It really makes you understand exactly what your actions and what you say mean to your spouse and what it does to your relationship. You need to set boundaries and no longer assume what she is thinking or feeling. You are responsible only for your needs and happiness. You need to become indifferent to the outcome, you set boundaries about how you are willing to be treated and let her know the response to breaking these boundaries and then follow through. You cannot control her actions but you can control your responses. I think that is the most important thing that I learned from the book, I learned what I was doing and how to stop it from happening in my future relationships.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Yesterday morning I was getting ready for work and saw that she was awake in her room. The baby was still asleep in the next room. I saw that she looked upset and went in to say hi. She has been really scared about money since the previous morning where we discussed splitting the bills. She is starting to see that life isn't just instantly better and that if we can't work something out her family house is gone. I guess this whole thing has been about her being really confused about herself. She talked about not knowing who she is, being scared about looking back at her life years from now and not being happy with it. 
I told her about all of the positive improvements I've been making in myself for my own sake and for our daughter. I told her how good I've been feeling about myself, and I told her about how I am really grateful for this "wake up call" regardless of how things turn out. She told me that she wanted to reassure me that there was no one else. I replied with that's good, because that is something that would make this unfixable. She says she just needs space to figure out herself. She hasn't been staying out late, she hasn't been leaving, she is just spending more time alone at home. Not even on the phone or anything. Just private time really. We have been getting along really well at home, just nothing romantic.
I've been talking online to one of her sisters the last couple of weeks and the sister promised me total confidence and truly means it. She wants us to work it out and wants to do whatever she can to help us get through this. She has been trying to schedule a time to reel her in to a talk about things in person but it was difficult for them both to find the time. Well last night the sister had her over for dinner with her husband and kids. They had a nice night together and I still haven't talked with the sister. Before they met up I asked the sister to put in a good word for me and she enthusiastically agreed. I don't know how their talk went, I don't know if it will help anything but it hasn't seemed to hurt anything so far. I want to ask the sister how it went but honestly I feel that whatever they talked about is personal and should stay between them so I won't ask unless the sister wants to fill me in on anything she feels I should know. I only wanted her to have a talk with someone else who loves and cares for her that could maybe get her to see another perspective. 

One of the things we talked about yesterday morning was that things with us were just ok and then she tried to make it better and it went from ok to bad. Neither of us wants "ok" we both want "great". I need to show her that I am great that things could be great and if they can't be great then I don't want it either.


----------



## The Count (Aug 14, 2011)

vwzach182 said:


> Hi everyone,
> Her point of view is that life is short and she deserves to be happy, which is a valid point.


So basically she's a princess with an huge sense of entitlement. What a selfish piece of crap she sounds like. 

You need to look on the bright side here my friend. Firstly, you have dodged a bullet big time. She's 38 years old and seems utterly incapable of sustaining any kind of meaningful human relationship. 

The fact she has chopped and changed so much does not suggest that she is especially motivated by emotional connection. There are people in this world who cannot exist in any other state but that of permanent crisis, and she could well be one. 

It sounds brutally narcissistic to me. You won't want to hear this, but from my experience, Women check out of relationships in their heads a long time before you know anything about it. And in such instances there is almost always another party involved in some way. She could be a rare exception, but it would go against reams of empirical evidence you can find on this very forum where people have thought exactly the same thing only to find out later that there was a stray **** sniffing around. 

Especially if you only get vague answers and receive nothing that sounds like even a fractionally sensible answer about why they feel as they do. "I just don't feel that way about you", or the all time classic "I love YOU I'm just not IN love with you", an utterly repulsive and narcissistic sentence designed to convey a sense of sophisticated emotional depth when the reality simply means "I'm a *****". 

Get straight onto a solicitor (or lawyer depending what side of the pond you are on) about your rights of access to your child. Do this before you do anything else. Let them deal with her. At least you won't have to go through a division of assets or have to be financially rinsed through the courts, so that is one thing in your favour. Be thankful for this. 

Personally I'd stop the need for an explanation from her, or try and talk her round and any and all of it. It's not a bloody sales convention, you can't pitch a marriage to someone like a door to door carpet salesman. You're getting caught up in the game of trying to convince her how much you care, and how worthy you are....it's manipulative and needy. Trust me, it's far better to keep your self respect. It may not seem like it now, but further down the line its preferable. 

Right now your priorities are you and your child. Forget trying to salvage this, she hasn't come to this conclusion overnight, though it seems that way to you. It's a carefully planned strategic withdrawal. She's months ahead of you in her own head. She's processed this, and you haven't, which is why it is imperative that you get your relationship with your child sorted out by a professional as soon as possible. 

Then kick her out of the house. Forget about trying to prove that you are decent and nice. So many Men make this error, and unfortunately some Women are all too willing to exploit it. 

Don't get rinsed. She's not your responsibility to look after any more now. Cut her off. It was her choice, and you don't owe her a damn thing. You're young enough to start anew with a smile, and you have a beautiful child in your life. I wish you all the best my friend, and apologies if I come over as being a little blunt. Situations like yours make me quite angry. You deserve better. Learn from this and choose wisely next time. Learn to read the red flags early on in a prospective relationship, it'll save you a ton of ball ache later on.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you Count, I appreciate your honesty and I am not insulted by your bluntness in any way. In many ways you hit the nail right on the head. She has been planning this for a while and as a result she has already justified every action she has made. She is a really strange person, at times throughout her relationship I've been really confused by what seems to be a total and complete lack of sentimentality on her part. Not just in regards to us but to everything. Her dying mother sends her a letter or a card, it goes right in to the trash after it's been read. In my family we always write the dates on greeting cards up in the corner and later on in life there have been times where it's nice to look at one of those old happy memories or nice notes written down by family members after they have passed. She sees it all as clutter. Little things like that always bothered me. We have a big attic and there are a few boxes up there, not a huge mess or anything but she constantly insists that we need a dumpster to haul it all away. It kills her to know that there is anything in the house that is not being used daily. She has no problem with magazines and stuff piling up on tables but god forbid if I have one tool in the basement that hasn't been used in a month. 

Did I tell anyone here that I am not allowed to keep my food anywhere but in one special cabinet? In the kitchen we have all the food and dishes in a their normal places but my food which she sees all as junk has to stay in this one cabinet in the far corner where it is very hard to get to. If we go shopping and I run low on room in my one little cabinet she wants me to throw things out or eat something to make room or take it to work. This started because she didn't want to be tempted by my bag of chips or whatever snack I may have in there and it seemed innocent enough at the time but it turned in to something weird. 
She is the same way about the baby too. The baby's food has to stay in one special area which makes a little more sense to keep it all together but she is still weird about it.
I'm the one that has to clean the litter boxes. It's her cat but it's my responsibility. I ****ing hate cleaning the litter boxes, it's disgusting. Her ex husband used to do it so it's my problem now. I had no problem with it when she was pregnant, a pregnant woman shouldn't be anywhere near that stuff ever. but why should I be the only one doing it? I do almost all of the dishes. I take out the trash and recycling. I take care of the baby most nights. She's at work right now and I'm with the baby. I love spending time with our daughter and if I could I would gladly take all the responsibility and just do it all myself. I'm just venting now, but I'm realizing how much she doesn't appreciate me. The fact that I'm still TRYING to get her back and SHE doesn't want it makes me even more resentful. I need to keep some of my self respect.


----------



## forlorn99 (May 20, 2012)

You aren't going to be able to nice yourself back into her good graces, you need to read no more mr nice guy at least twice. You also need to stop discussing getting back together with her, she needs to initiate that conversation and then you tell her what you expect from the relationship and let her choose. If you beg her and plead with her it just makes it worse. I know from personal experience you need to stop being weak, women despise weak men.


----------



## The Count (Aug 14, 2011)

You absolutely do not want to get back with this woman. She sounds like an absolute nightmare. She is displaying classic symptoms of NPD/BPD. 

The fact that your cupboard is out of the way and difficult to access is no accident. It is likely one of many little tactics she has designed to control you, break you down and humiliate you. Have a think and see if there are any other "harmless" little quirks she has in respect of your day to lives together, and tot them up. You'll see a pattern develop very quickly once you know what to look for. 

Again, at least you are not married to her. You dodged a huge bullet there mate. Your priority now, other than your daughter, is to work on yourself and break your codependency. I agree with the suggestion that you read Dr Glovers book No More Mr Nice Guy, more than once. Read it thoroughly, then read it again. And then again. And then once more. That book did more to straighten my head and my life out more than everything else I tried combined. There is also a NMMNG forum full of Men at different stages of the book, from newbies to seasoned veterans. It's a fantastic community and very supportive, but they won't hold your hand and say "there, there" and are quick to give you a metaphoric slap round the head if they think you need it. 

I imagine your self esteem has been trampled into the ground, and now is your time to take it back. You may find this easier to achieve than you think when away from such a relentlessly negative influence as your ex fiancée, but I cannot stress this enough, you need to do No Contact. Especially if she is NPD/BPD. 

There is an excellent website by a lovely Woman called Melanie Tonia Evans (google her) who has a free downloadable PDF that explains in detail how to do No Contact, especially if there is a child involved. I strongly recommend you read it, and her other free PDF about how to recognise the signs of living with the emotional abuse within an NPD relationship.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Well its been a couple of months. Right after my last post things started getting better. She confronted me to say that she wanted to reassure me that there was no one else and that she had been talking to a guy on the phone from Michigan that she met online and that he was trying to help her work things out with me because he was in a similar situation. We started kissing every morning, she really appreciated everything I was doing around the house. She was totally different. She I toldold me she liked me a lot more now and that she was starting to have fun with me again. She said she talked to her sister and was just waiting for the spark to come back and catch up to how im feeling. Then it all faded over the weeks. She told me all along that we still had a chance. Every day was up and down, I had to guess how she was feeling each morning based on how sincere her kiss was. A month ago things were ok for the day and I found a huge hickey on her neck. She lied and said it was from a curling iron and about ten min later admitted that she kissed someone else. That day i found a phone number on a scrap of paper on floor and looked it up online. It was a cell number for some guy in Missouri. I knew the guy she kissed was local and I just figured the missouri guy was another online advice giver she found so I just worried about the immediate issue. I got home from work that day and told her to end the sh*t and tell this guy not to go to her work anymore and she agreed without question. She deleted him from all her social sites by her own decision and suggestion and said she was going to focus on just us and that we were back together taking it slow. She suggested an agreement that she keep her room for a little while and that we take things very slow. She invited me to the gym with her and we went and had fun. She apologized for everything. We ran a 5k race together and went out for drinks and lunch afterwards and even made out in the car for a minute when we left. Her dad bought us a 3000 dollar lawn mower. Things were looking great. We cuddled on the couch at night before she went to her bed. Within a few days she got weird and I came home one day to her having moved all the rest of the bedroom furniture into the spare room and setting it all up permanently. I asked her why if she only wanted the room for a little while. She flipped out and told me that she never said that. That she never said we were together. That she only agreed to not see anyone else for now. Well less than a week later she started getting nice and happy again and the kisses started getting nicer and she was making us dinner one night and I found a receipt in the kitchen trash for a st Louis cardinals baseball hat and pair of panties. I asked her about it and she said it was a gag gift for a girl at work. I asked again, same answer. I walked upstairs, looked in her underwear drawer and the panties were right in there. I went back down and calmly asked her againwithout saying I found them if they were for her. I asked 3 or 4 times and she finally admitted they were for her and that she was going to send pics to some guy online. I flipped out and she starting saying that she loved him. we argued, she left for her drunk moms house. I was done, i told her I was done. She refused to stop talking to him. I talked to her sister and she agreed that we needed to get her into therapy so I suggested it and she eventually agreed. I told her if she didn't end the fantasy online relationship then I would never takeher sseriously as a person or a mother and she immediately called it off with him but was really sad about it for days. Now I find out they still email everyday. The guy is married and has an 11 month old daughter. I found a letter she wrote promising all of these things to him. Like wedding vows. She promised to be faithful to only him for the rest of her life and that she was going to marry him and that she couldn't picture her life without him. It went on and on like you wouldn't believe. It was the craziest thing I have ever read and she's never met him and only been talking for about a month. He has made plans to move out here halfway across the country to marry her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Expose his behavior to his wife.


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

The night I found the panties I remember the missouri number and yup, that's the same guy. It turned out that she called things off with the local guy so that she could continue to be faithful to the online guy. She completely nuts and all the while she was telling me that we were working in our relationship. I told her that I would sign the house over to her if she let me have full custody of our daughter and just let us leave, she said maybe and that she would think about it. She texted me that night from work saying we should sell the house and have joint physical custody and I would have her 4 nights a week. The next day she says I can have her 5 nights a week. Then she talked ton some girlfriends and realized that child support would be greatly reduced with joint custody and started saying she wanted me to have joint legal custody only. And that a child belongs with its mother. She doesn't want our daughter. She loves her the same way she loves the dogs. I need to get my daughter far away from her and in terrified she will try to stop me just for the money. I offered to sign over the house, assume all the debt, give her my car, pay the mortgage, anything she wanted just to let me take our daughter. I dont knowwhat to do. I can't let my daughter live a lifetime of narcissistic abuse caused by her awful mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Conrad, according to what he's telling my ex, he is also living in a separate bedroom and that his wife asked who she was and he told all.I dont believe it and have tried to find her email but can't find an active one. I've learned a lot about finding info online lately lol. If anyone wants to help find her contact info send me a message. I feel that she deserves to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Expose the affair to his wife.

Start there.

She has zero respect for you.

Earn some.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

IF YOU DON'T START DIGGING AND EXPOSE THIS TO OM WIFE YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!

IDK why I'm shouting but I can tell you that therapy won't do any good until the Om is completely out of the picture.

So your first battle front is getting rid of OM, your next is...and even more challenging is getting your old lady some help.

At the end of the day this help a talk about is only up to her and is she willing to do this to save her family?????


Again work on getting rid of the OM, expose, cut off her cell , turn off internet....what ever...

Come on man the only constant in life is change, stop doing the same thing over and over again and expect things to change...that my friend is insane!



Until OM stops infecting her she will remain in this fantasy.


Please do your research and know your enemy. You might be able to fight this. Then again "here we go again" maybe its time to cut your loses?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

EVEN if it's time to go...

Expose the affair to posOMW

You owe her that.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I regress...

JUST LET HER GO!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh it's def getting exposed one way or the other. I photocopied the letter and was thinking of mailing a copy to the wife at their home address with my house number and ex's cell number and email. Honestly, at this point I just want custody. If she miraculously just snapped out of this bullsh*t today and started begging for another chance I'd give it but that would be the ONLY way I'd consider being wither again. Even then it would mostly be for my daughters sake of us being together and keeping the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vwzach182 (Mar 19, 2013)

That is extremely doubtful though. She has zero respect or interest in regards to me and has repeatedly said that any risk of harm this breakup will cause our daughter is "worth the risk" in her own words. She doesn't realize or care that she is gambling with her life but our daughter is paying the tab when it all goes to he'll.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

vwzach182 said:


> Oh it's def getting exposed one way or the other. I photocopied the letter and was thinking of mailing a copy to the wife at their home address with my house number and ex's cell number and email. Honestly, at this point I just want custody. If she miraculously just snapped out of this bullsh*t today and started begging for another chance I'd give it but that would be the ONLY way I'd consider being wither again. Even then it would mostly be for my daughters sake of us being together and keeping the house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make sure you get to posOMW.

Do not take any chances on having her contact you.

Fedex your evidence.


----------

