# Here we go again...



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

As the title says... I cannot post a link to my previous thread right now, but the gist is my H turned me down last year for 6 months plus every time I initiated. We were not sexless but it was all controlled by him.

He pretty much denied any knowledge, my esteem dropped to rock bottom. I swore off initiating ever because his rejections were too painfull. Eventually we worked through things, I worked on me and things got way better.

At least they were...

It had to be too good to be true. I feel terribly lonely right now. H did exactly what he has done countless times before, put in the effort that I needed for a while then just stopped.

I cannot say he does nothing. In fact he does a lot. He just does not do the things I need from him. I do not feel desired. I do not get that I am special. I do get that he wants to have sex with me but like I said to him the other day, we can literally barely talk all day then at 10pm he is all like "want an early night?" , his way of saying he wants sex. Any kind of attention or affection is at the bottom of his list because he is too tired. Or he does not get why I want it.

He argues "but I did x/y/z for you, doesn't that show you I care?" And he DOES do that stuff. But it is like it is given on his terms. He cannot find it to meet me halfway. It is like he lost the romance or the will to show he cares. Because he USED to do this stuff. I feel like a piece of the furniture. Or a blow up doll that he does not need to converse with or interact with unless he wants sex.

I am at a loss with what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

I think u are having more of a relationship issue that is affecting ur sex life...


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

It is all intertwined. There are different aspects and I find it hard to see what caused what right now. I also have no idea what to do. I literally went through the whole process of detaching and working on me. I mean I have done that. Still am. 

It is hard to sit and look at H and wonder what is going on in his head. Yeah he says he finds me attractive. Countless times he has said he thought I looked nice when I wore something in particular or on a certain day, he just forgot to say anything. It really is like he expects that I know, to him it is that simple. He thinks it therefore I know he is thinking it. Like I can read his mind.

I still rarely initiate. There is a little voice in my head saying that I don't feel desired by him so why foist it upon him? I do not particularly want to initiate things when I don't get that he feels that about me. I WANT that. To know he finds me beautiful and sexy and to knw what he likes about me. And I have told him this many times. He just does not do it. It is not anywhere on his list of priorities.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi, walking. So sorry to read of your pain. Hugs to you.



I know this may be hard to absorb.... but the idea is that what you THINK you need to feel loved is simply just YOUR idea. 
You may be setting yourself up for disappointment, and self-judging and limiting yourself.

Not everyone has the same ideas ("I feel and give love when I do these things for another person")

Because we all have different values and beliefs. That's okay. If you want to hold onto the belief that you will ONLY feel loved when your husband does certain things, that's okay too.
But to be fair, consider that when you do this, you are giving him the POWER to your happiness. And accept that life will be up and down, you will feel sad and happy, depending on what he is doing or not doing. 

You don't have to "fix" it. If you want to follow that belief, you just need to accept it. Ride the waves as they happen. Life will be easier, on your heart. 

If you want to get off the rollercoaster.... that takes some courage. Which you have plenty of. You are a shining star. 


I want to say a lot more, but this tidbit from this article says it much better than I could.
Are Your Expectations Setting You Up for Disappointment?

Look Beyond Your Distractions

A lot of us want external things because of the way we think they will make us feel. I wanted a skinnier body because I thought it would make me feel happy and loved. I wanted a successful career because I thought I would feel fulfilled. I wanted a relationship because I thought it would relieve my loneliness.

These things can distract us from looking within ourselves for answers.

When they fail to do what we want, we fell disappointed and angry. In order to release this cycle of disappointment, we need to release the belief that they will save us.

If you want to experience more love, start giving more love. If you don’t want to feel lonely, then start healing the belief that you are alone. If you want to feel like you’re worth something, start treating yourself like you are worth something, because you most definitely are.

When you heal the beliefs that run wild in your mind, you can still enjoy the externals, but you’re no longer trying to get something from them. You know you’re already fulfilled, happy, and complete, so if your circumstances change, you can maintain your joy.

Relax More, Judge Yourself Less

I’ve learned that the loving voice within, also known as our inner guide, has a bigger plan for us than we have for ourselves. I don’t know about you, but I want that plan!

As it turns out, right now you are exactly where you need to be. Phew.

The only thing you need to do in order to follow the path of your inner guidance is listen to it by releasing your judgments about what you think is happening. You don’t have to have everything figured out right now.

Get quiet and listen for guidance about what to do in this moment. Any advice coming from love will be something you can do now. The thought of doing it will make you feel lighter and excited.

Change Your Thoughts

If you are feeling disappointed, it’s because of the thoughts you have about the situation. So if you don’t want to feel disappointed, change your thoughts.

The first thing I do when I feel any disturbance to my peace of mind is say to myself, “I am determined to see this person/situation differently.” This is how you step into your power. Everything happens for you, not to you.

You’ll be amazed at the shifts in perception that occur when you become willing to release fear and see love instead.

When you focus on releasing the thoughts about how you imagined your life to be, your most loving, truthful self can come forward and guide you. There is nothing to figure out.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Brilliant post deejov.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

That *is* a great post. I actually think a lot of it is very valuable. Usefull.

I can see that H is showing me love in the way that comes naturally to him, ie acts of service. I actually do appreciate this and I tell him thanks for taking the time. I see he likes that.

I see other things as well that confuse me. I see he has changed how he feels and shows love since we first got together. To him this is simply a "natural" change; people change with time. The trouble is the things he *used* to do are the things I still want from him.

I have long felt that he is very comfortable and secure in knowing how I feel about him. I know he loves me, but I cannot tell if he is IN love. I guess that to me, an act of service just does not say "I think you are gorgeous/ beautifull/ sexy." And yes, he wants to have sex with me, but I never feel desired. That he lusts after me. He says stuff about how he would like me to wear a different perfume, and describes the fragrance as one that young women wear. Wants to get me a dress he has seen other women looking good in that is not my style at all. What I hear from that is "you'd be attractive IF you changed how you smell/ look..." And the funny thing is that if I suggest similar to him he point blank refuses because he says I am trying to change him. He does not see the irony...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

NOT being adaptable and changing is the one thing that will lead to my early death. Type 1 diabetes means adapting several times a day. Tomorrow is never the same as yesterday. Even if I eat exactly the same thing, at the same time, and walk only exactly the same steps. Variables. Adapt to today. 

To be in a state of refusing change is un-natural. Think about this.
The planet, the seasons, the rivers, the oceans, your body, time itself. Nothing is the same as it was yesterday, or 5 minutes ago.

Change is what keeps the entire universe moving forward. 

There is a quote about life being a flowing river.... and if you go with the flow, life is much easier. 

On either side of the flowing river is anxiety, and pain.
If you are clinging to the banks of the river, trying to hold onto something static to avoid change.... you are merely mired in the mud and will never be free.

Change is the most natural state of the world. 
Lies your ego tells you:
You will only be happy when _____________________
And when that is gone, you will no longer be happy.

Except the world never stays the same. It changes constantly. 

So instead of fighting it, learn to use it. 
Change what makes you happy.

Today I am happy because _____________
Tomorrow may be different.

Then you will always win.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I understand it... in principle.

But is that not in a way depending on other external factors to find happiness?

Like, he has changed so I have to choose to like it or else I won't be happy?

Is it not in a way fundamentally changing the goalposts? Or even being the unsuspecting victim of a bait and switch and choosing to compromise your beliefs to find the best of the situation?

Eg. One of the core things I used to like about H was his showing of affection. He was quite into PDAs, holding hands in public, going out on dates, admiring of me and how he found me attractive.

He does rarely do any of that any more. I miss it. I feel short changed. It was valuable to me and a core part of "us." Should I change how I feel about it because he has changed? 

It's just such a fundamental part of a marriage, the attraction there. It is basic to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Depending on external factors to find happiness is what you are doing. Those external factors have changed, so you no longer think you are happy.

_Like, he has changed so I have to choose to like it or else I won't be happy?_

What he did before made you happy, because you chose to like what he did, then. 

You are choosing to not like what he does now, and choosing to be unhappy about it. It is no different. What has changed... is you. Your ability to love yourself. 

A fundamental part of a marriage... is a belief.
Your belief. Accepting this as your belief? What does this mean to you? There are consequences to putting conditions on a person's behavior for love. 

-Try to change the other person, and learn how to keep them behaving a certain way (or keep them from changing)
-When things are not "good"... what is your plan to cope with the down side?
-Is it better to change partners, find another that has similar behaviors that you desire?

People do have differing values and beliefs. Which is how we grow and learn from each other. Through compromise. 

Because the truth is, there simply isn't another person on this planet who knows you inside and out, and can anticipate exactly what you want, and follow that through. It would be a one-sided robotic exchange. They would get nothing out of it, except servitude to your feelings. 

Servitude to your feelings is YOUR job. For yourself.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It's possible he's not IN love with you anymore.

I say this because of him wanting you to be something you're not.

In addition to the EA he had as well.

The only way you will find out for sure is to set him free and see if he comes back.

This was what I tried to tell you on all your other posts.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

IN love. I guess that to me, an act of service just does not say "I think you are gorgeous/ beautifull/ sexy." And yes, he wants to have sex with me, but I never feel desired. That he lusts after me. He says stuff about how he would like me to wear a different perfume, and describes the fragrance as one that young women wear. Wants to get me a dress he has seen other women looking good in that is not my style at all. What I hear from that is "you'd be attractive IF you changed how you smell/ look..." And the funny thing is that if I suggest similar to him he point blank refuses because he says I am trying to change him. He does not see the irony...


Your post above...
You took what he said about the perfume and dress in a negative way. That is not his fault.

The perfume that younger women wear, and the dress style... is how he sees you. He sees you as a younger, beautiful woman.

You see yourself much uglier. And that is what you present to him. That is not his fault either.

I can see where past actions might make you feel that he has to make up for that, and he caused you to feel ugly and unwanted.

You think he took that away from you, so you think he still owns it. 

He doesn't own it. Never did. Never will. It isn't gone. You are just too afraid to show it. You show him the wounded side instead. 

If you are only willing to give him the less attractive wounded self, don't expect any less from him.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I feel like I just cannot win whatever I do.

Logically deejov I understand what you are saying. But what I do not get is if I am governing my happiness completely then what is the point of even having a husband?

I do not mean that flippantly. I genuinely think that relationships ARE inherently in part a selfish way of being. Yes we give, but we are also there because that other person is providing us with something we want or need. And if that person stops giving those things... then are we supposed to look for other things they provide to make it continue to be fulfilling? I mean there surely is a basic level of expectation within a relationship? Otherwise surely there is no point?

I said the other week to H that I did not feel very connected to him. He listened and quite flippantly said what is all this connection rubbish you talk about? We have talked about it in the past.

Every day after the kids are in bed I go to our bedroom to chill out. I put off going downstairs to sit with him because it is painfull. The silence. I just stopped trying to talk to him any more. When asked he says he has "nothing to talk about." 

I was feeling ill yesterday. I got up with the kids then went to ask if he would be especially busy at work because I felt horrendous. He sad "sorry yes" then got up, got ready and went to work without even saying anything else, not asking me what was wrong or could he do anything to help. Then helpfully texted me mid morning asking if I was "struggling." Funny thing is I look after him when he is ill and apparently I do it because I am "nice." He only asked me when he got in from work what was wrong and even then took a whole second to listen and that was it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

When you learn to control your own happiness by loving yourself you'll stop allowing your husband to treat you like crap.

Does that explain it?


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

That works for me, yes :-D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Yes, we are responsible for our own happiness. Surrounding ouselves with people who make us feel happy, and getting rid of those who don't is taking control of our own happiness.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I can understand how you feel like you cannot win.

On one hand... there is accepting that you choose to only feel loved when he does certain things, and yet you do not have the control or knowledge of how to make him do those things, when you want him to.
It might work for awhile, but it's never permanent. One could even just look for a better partner?

But the alternative is to look at yourself, and some pretty unknown "take it on faith" ideas. 

The easy road is finding a partner who gives you exactly what you are looking for. For awhile.

The hard road is one that shouldn't always be ignored. The fact that you stay, and keep struggling to find a way to keep it the same... why? 

When I answered that question for myself, a lot changed for me.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Why do I stay? I do love him and desire him. I married him for better and for worse, and marriage to me is different than a long term relationship. It is a bond that is not to be taken lightly. I believe that relationships *do* take a degree of maintenance and work. I also believe that there are ups and downs within the natural flow of life. Also that two people's compatability is so individual that when something comes up you do not necessarily *know* how to deal with it. I am learning things all the time about relationships that I never knew before. Investing this knowledge can only be beneficial. I want to do everything I can. BUT I can only do so much.

I will be clear. I do think he loves me. Whether that is an "in" love feeling or a platonic fondness I do not know. It is THAT that is vital for me to know. I do not want to be in a marriage with someone who views me as a close friend and does not find me attractive. He says yes but from what I know of him he finds telling me sensitive things very difficult. I certainly do not get a vibe of him desiring me at all. He admits he does not do this. He allways has a reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

We were talking yesterday and I brought up the subject at hand.

His words... "You should tell me this stuff baby." 

Deja vu... Um think I just might have done that allready honey! A few times!

Oh yeah, THAT does not change. Him + imminent threat = kickstarts in to gear. Smile on my face = he can stop now, wifey happy. No more effort required.

I realized this pattern many months ago. It is how he operates. He openly admitted he does not make an effort because he is tired. Funny thing is he can find time to do other stuff he wants to do.

I do realize the dynamics at play of course. I see that so much better. I do also, in the spirit of deejov's words, see and receive his love as he gives it. And I do not want to downplay that. But I have not figured out what to do with all this. Fact is, if he DOES love me in a non platonic way ( could not think how to describe it there!) I do not feel it as that. 

I am kinda sat looking at it all in front of me and seeing what I can make sense of. I *do* see some things that make sense I think. I am trying to think outside of my head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

_It is THAT that is vital for me to know. I do not want to be in a marriage with someone who views me as a close friend and does not find me attractive._

It is THAT that is vital for me to know
Why? What are you getting out of it and what is your measurement for knowing he is in love with you and not just loves you? Can you prove it? What if you can't? 


I do not want to be in a marriage with someone who views me as a close friend and does not find me attractive.
This is your opinion that he thinks that way. . You can't make him , and you even if you could, you have to believe it. There are just as many ways to subjectively view it either way. 

These are all his feelings. They are his. 
Put that aside for a minute.
What are your feelings? 
Because that's all you can really speak for. Yourself. 
Even if he did all the right things to make you believe you are seeing what you need to see.... what matters?
How you feel.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I need to know because to me marriage is a sexual relationship. Without that we are "just" friends. If he does not desire me in that way then I feel that chances are his sexual feelings and dedication will go elsewhere and thus will the marriage. I *want* my husband to dsire and want me in that way.

How can I measure it? Ultimately it is how *I* feel. In previous long term relationships I was never in any doubt how my partner felt in thatway. I was told through words and shown physically. The same things H used to do. I saw him do some similar attentive things towards his OW and I remember thinking why can he do those things for her and not me? He was clearly in "lust".

I do not feel he lusts after me. I feel he thinks of me in a pleasant, motherly fashion. I have made attempts to do stuff I know he finds attractive in other women but he hates me doing. It is allmost like he hates seeing me sexualized. He does not show any kind of possessiveness or that he values me like that. I have even flirted with people he knows like me in front of him and still nothing. 

He says he feels it but there is nothing I SEE that shows it. His actions do not align with his words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've been at this for a very long time and I'm always learning. This week I pondered the concept of attachment and acceptance. If I go to the mall and see a fabulous purse I can't afford I don't pout or feel a sense of loss. It's not mine, it will never be mine and I happily accept that.

Why is it with relationships we struggle with accepting that the object of our desire isn't ours? We can't let the fantasy go that if we just did something different they would do as we wanted them to do?

The irony is until you give up chasing something that isn't yours does anything change. Take the focus off them and put it on you. Find out why you want and desire someone that treats you badly?

This week my husband did something I didn't like. Instead of getting upset I detached. Instead of taking crumbs I retreated. In that moment I didn't want him. I didn't want him because he didnt want me. In that moment I changed our dynamic yet once again. He's playing all nice nice and I don't care. The damage is done. We've had this conversation numerous times and I'm not having it again. Funny thing now he wants to talk and I said no, I'm done talking.

I'm moving onto to taking care of me since its obvious he can't or won't. I'm very calm, peaceful and happy. I accept this and as a result consequence s just flow without me having to DO anything.

Now he's upset and I just smile.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I am just sick of the thought of having to explain *again* that I need him to articulate these thoughts he tells me he has about me at the time, not days/ weeks after when we end up arguing. He genuinely thinks that somehow I should just know. Because he told ke once 5 years ago. 

At this point I do not know what to do. Thinking about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Mine handed me a b.s. excuse actually several of them. I said nothing. I can't make him do anything but I can take care of me. He's upset because I haven't let him off the hook yet. Thing is he's not on the hook because I truly don't care. 

I'm good whether he fixes this or not. It's not a deal breaker. It has changed the way I feel about him and that is his consequence.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Every time he does things like this he drops a little lower on that pedestal I have him on.

And that's a GOOD thing.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Can I ask what he did? You do not have to say if you do not want. Am interested in how people detach and how loved ones handle it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'll pm you later. I'm on my phone and value my privacy. 

I am getting lots of attention now and I don't care. I'm happy without him.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

OK. I understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Mavash is right. Put the focus back on you.

Follow through on what you are thinking.
-Firstly, it's a bit presumptive to assume that you KNOW what he is thinking and feeling. 
-Even when he says "I do love you", you are basically arguing that he is lying.

Why? Because he is not doing it in a way that you want to see, or recognize. That does seem disrespectful. 

You are stuck in a cycle of judging each other, each wishing the other would be different so you both could feel what you think you want to feel. 

To break the cycle, you have to believe in yourself. Take responsibility for yourself. 

Tired of fighting the battle? Why not just be yourself. 
Being yourself is good enough.

Start by just simply accepting the way you are. Today. 
What are your core values? What are your boundaries?

How do you do that?
Write, talk, journal. Who are you? What are your beliefs? What's important to you?

Being Valued & Having Personal Values in Relationships: Your Value Is As Good As How You Treat You (Part 1) | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

The attention he showed the OW I recognized straightaway as the things even then I had been asking for from him. That is partly why even though it did not get serious, I felt so hurt by it. The things that he had taken away from me and refused to give me, he could freely give to practically a stranger. And even now he cannot bring himself to. THAT stings a lot.

I want to be clear. I do not doubt he loves me. It is very clear to me he cares from the things that he does. BUT to me, picking up ice cream, making dinner or driving the car do not show to me that he finds me sexually attractive. KWIM? It is possible that other people may get that from their spouse from doing such things.

I have not closed off the possibility that he *does* feel like that about me. What I see now is someone who shows no sign of physical touch or attraction unless he wants sex. He does not touch me, like to hug me, kiss me or snuggle on the sofa. On occasion he will offer a massage as a prelude to sex. We basically do not touch unless we are having sex. And I WISH I were exaggerating.

It did not used to be like this. That makes it hurt more.

About me? When I stop and think about my every day life it is astounding how much energy I am using making sure he is not p!ssex at me for invading his space. That is by physically touching him or even talking when we sit together. Leaving him alone so he cal sleep in to the afternoon. So much of my life is spent consciously leaving him alone. It is exhausting me. I feel like a utility that is used for his benefit and left alone the rest of the time.

It isn't right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

It did not used to be that way. That's a good start.

It hurts that he acts this way. Yes, it hurts deeply.

So, do you know why you use your energy to tip toe around him?

By the act of *doing* these things (changing who you are to keep him happy) you are literally de-valuing yourself. You are telling him that you are NOT important. You don't have important values, if you are willing to give them up, and adopt his. 

It only follows that he wouldn't do what you *say* you need to be happy, and loved. It's only talk. 

Your actions do not match your words either. I mean that with kindness. You say it's vitally important to you to have these things. Yet you put them all aside and *change* who you are to keep him happy. 

What can you do about it?
How about just be yourself?

The dynamics will work themselves out. Very quickly.

You just decide to show affection when you want. You GET the affection you want. If you want a hug, you hug him. 

Stand up for yourself. Get what you want. If he's truly unhappy with how you are, as a person, that's HIS problem. Not yours. 

"I'm just being myself". 

You used to have this dynamic, so I'm not so sure it's because you are incompatible. The balance has tipped waaay over. Right it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Yep you hand your power over to him each and every day.

I did it too until I said I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. 

And I meant it. My words and actions lined up.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I guess I just thought I had done so much allready. When now I am thinking there is so much more I need to work on.
Which is basically being the authentic "me."

I still have not got there yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You got it.

See what happens is when you're so focused on getting sex that you lose yourself. Daily you sell your soul for a piece of ass, a hug, a touch or to be desired. The irony is it doesn't work so why do we do this?

We do it because we're convinced it will work and well it doesn't.

So if it doesn't work why not give up on the idea and just be yourself? Let the chips fall where they may.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Yeah. The trouble is I am bitter. And weary. And tired. I do not know if I even *want* to try any morr.

I have thought about the practicalities of breaking up so much that the prospect of doing it does not seem so bad now. I keep thinkinh of how much less I would have to worry about. The emotional freedom. It is very appealing right now.

I am SO resentfull. I do not have any forgiveness in me at this point. I am also very angry at myself for who I have become. And for who I allways have been. I have changed a lot... but still not enough. It is still so very hard to enforce boundaries. A lot of the time I surprise myself with being direct and clear with my words, but sometimes still I sit and let things fester instead of putting it out there.

He is currently being super nice. I want to poke his eyes out with a stick. It is like look at me, I am giving you a hug. Aren't I good? 

Or "You look nice" (surprise in voice.) 

I realized a little while ago that I actually like it better when he's off doing something. I get downstairs to myself. I wish for him to go out.

I said I was bitter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

hugs to you walking.
Here's a thought for you.
Consider NOT working on your marriage.

This helped me to take time for myself. An analogy shared.

Think of marriage like an _object_. Bound by legal terms. Not easily dissolved. It is something that is shared between the two of you, but is not you, or him. You each bring your own personal selves to the marriage, like meeting on a bridge that connects you together.

There are actions we each take to nurture the object (marriage). Like a bridge.. it needs maintenance, tending. Sometimes it just needs to be observed, enjoyed. It can be left unattended for periods of time, but long term neglect will result in decay, destruction, and it will fall apart. 

Sometimes we cross the bridge, to the other side. And forget that our own side of the bridge is not being looked after. That is why it seems so one-sided, and one feels like they are doing all of the work, in the marriage.

They are trying to fix the other person's side of the bridge, and make it look just like their side does. And using all their energy. Meanwhile, their own side of the bridge is laying neglected.

Both sides bring valuable structure to the bridge. Together, it makes up a whole. But if your side is laying neglected, what are you bringing to the whole? 

In fact, if you don't take care of your side, the bridge will fall apart, after awhile. Which side of the bridge are you on? Which side is your husband on?

Does this make any sense?


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

It does make sense. Definitely I have crossed to his side trying to get him to fix it. To look at my side, saying how great it is, he can do it. He is telling me he is, and starting work, but keeps leaving my plans and designs unfinished and doing it his own way, which I eventually leave him to and go back to my side to watch, him getting on with his stuff and not seeing me waving at him.

Lol. I do get that.

This is the first time he has said he will do stuff I would like and I have seen it all for what it is from the off. FWIW I know he meanz it when he says it. I feel so cynical and untrusting... but realistic at the same time. It all feels so hollow and empty.

I guess this is the last time. Something is going to give eventually. A lot of the stuff said in this particular thread is currently being mapped out in my head. Certain things have really rung true this last few days and my perspective is again shifting to accommodate alternate ways of seeing things. I cannot say I *know* how I am going to handle this but I suspect it will be differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

LOL I just love the bridge thingy! I printed off a few pictures of some. With sunsets and nice scenery. How I want my side to look ha ha

My H had a long no-drinking spell. I still drive by our local bar on my way home from work. I don't even know I'm doing it. But I'm still checking. I catch myself thinking "he's lying" and not really believing him sometimes. But not as often. I am slowly but surely putting the troll back under the bridge where she belongs. 

Mostly because I'm completely re-doing my bridge. And his side doesn't seem wrong at all anymore. It's just different. It's kinda pretty, in it's own way. It has rugged, unfinished charm. If I was bridge shopping, I'm not sure I would buy it. But as long as it's attached to my side, I'll let it be whatever it is. I don't have to go over there unless I want to.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> He is currently being super nice. I want to poke his eyes out with a stick.


OMG what a manipulative prick. 

I read all the way through this with a lot of empathy for you. This especially. After seven years of asking my wife for something, after it is too late she starts doing it. Not worth detailing it what it was, but the _rage_ I felt...

Are you kidding me? After seven long years? Now that I am out the door you're going to do this? Too little, too late. How dare you.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> OMG what a manipulative prick.
> 
> I read all the way through this with a lot of empathy for you. This especially. After seven years of asking my wife for something, after it is too late she starts doing it. Not worth detailing it what it was, but the _rage_ I felt...
> 
> Are you kidding me? After seven long years? Now that I am out the door you're going to do this? Too little, too late. How dare you.


Oh yeah. I hear that. Whilst I am not (yet?) giving H his marching orders, he does up his efforts every time I get close to breaking point. I think he is just so comfortable he will not do anything unless he senses some motivator. In that case it isn't coming from love but a place of self preservation.

And the rage... yes. The sheer anger and frustration when I see him lightly dancing about, hugging and kissing me, and I just think ic it's so damn EASY then why does he make out it is so hard?

He made a flippant remark this morning and that was it, I was ready to explode. Luckily he seemed to realize he had spoken out of turn and apologized, so I took it. He also made me pretty p!ssed earlier, which is nothing new. I seriously thought of sitting him down later andxtelling him I had had enough. I decided to keep my cool and so far the day has been OK. This is what confuses me. I take some te when angry to assess things and he is being nice and loving and it messes with my head. He is being genuine... despite me saying it is self preservation for him, I know that right now he MEANS all the nice things he is doing and saying. Allmost like a measured dose, the words and gestures will run out again eventually and I will find myself in the same quandry as multiple times before.

Like I said previously, I am computing all that has been said and working out how to deal with it. I may sound a bit clueless right now but I am figuring it all out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

He continues to be nice. Texted me from work earlier about a date at the weekend, a time and place. I asked him to get up a little earlier this morning to sit with the kids before he left, and he did.

I have been thinking about just being "me." Who I used to be. The one I was quite happy with. There are things I cannot picture dealing with. Like initiating. Part of me thinks I need to get over it, just do the things I used to. The other part of me thinks on what earth is HE entitled to all that without a heartfelt and continued effort from him?

I do struggle with this. The part of me that wants to just do it is arguing with the other part. On some level I guess I feel like he needs to EARN that back. Is that wrong?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

One of the biggest things I've learned on this journey is to do things I want to do and don't do things I don't want to do. Has little to do with whether my husband has earned it or not. It's about ME and MY feelings.

I was a bit miffed at my husband last night and I told him so. He wanted sex and I hesitated. Do I want sex? Do I want to be nice to him? I decided I did and while I did have residual feelings of disconnect it felt good to not get sucked into thoughts of punishing him or making him earn my love. I chose to give it freely because I wanted to.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

For the record I don't do lots of the things I used to do. 

Cause I don't want to.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I hear you 

I don't feel ready to do the things I used to do. Whether he has "earned" them or not. I don't feel safe. Not yet. May be with time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I can relate to what you are saying. Hesitating, basing my actions on past behaviors. It takes time. 

I like what Mavash says. Ask yourself the question.I wanted to give up the job of punishing people. I'm too tired.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

deejov said:


> I wanted to give up the job of punishing people. I'm too tired.


Amen to this. :iagree:

Like I said I have stopped doing many things I used to do for people....all people not just my husband. Punishing people takes energy caring for myself does not. If I choose NOT to do something it's because I'm caring for myself not because I'm punishing someone.

One is about me and the other is about them. Focusing on OTHER people is where many of us go wrong in life.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

True. 

The "earned" thing is actually if he has done enough for me to feel safe and comfortable putting myself out there. It is not solely what I would take in to consideration but certainly an aspect of it.

I just know that I need to feel confident in myself that I can a) actually put myself out there and do the stuff I want to and b) be able to handle a potential rejection in the best manner. I am testing myself with little things and feeling OK so far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I love the book the gift of imperfection because she discusses the part where loving someone is a risk. 

You fear of rejection is because you're not willing to face the truth about your husband. The shame of that is more than you can take so you 'wait' until you feel safer. 

True enlightenment means being willing to live an authentic life knowing that if you do get rejected that it's not you, you will deal with it and it won't kill you.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I have not heard of that book. Might see if I can find a copy.

It has become clear recently, and highlighted by last night, that I am finding it incredibly difficult to 'O' during sex. For as long as I xan remember PIV in one particular position has allways been a definite way to O, and in the last two or so years, another one started to work for me.

Now I am finding it near impossible to get there during PIV. I am CERTAIN this is psychological. It is pretty upsetting.

I brought it up earlier. Said I had a mental block. Explained as just mentioned I am sure it is not physical at all. That I think it is due to all the arguments we have had about sex.

He said I need to get over it. I raised an eyebrow, he thought I was going to get upset and said no one else can do it for me, only me. I was not surprised by his words, I get what he is saying and his manner is how he is, but god I WISH he could just stop and empathize a little. I know only *I* can do it but it sure would be nice to have him there to lean on and be supporting me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Had a mini "epiphany" yesterday.

You know how people tell you stuff and you hear but it does not sink in? 

I still have poor boundaries. They *are* better than before in certain circumstances. Example: if H speaks to me rudely or says something questionable. I feel much better at addressing that and handling it. It is more when he DOES stuff that I still struggle internally and it is this which perpetuates many of our on going issues. I need to work through this.

The other thing is the power I give him without realizing. Yes I KNOW we have talked about this. I was so focussed on communicating "well" that I did not realize just WHAT it was that I was saying as well without ever speaking the words... that is, "you hold all the power." Duh. Athol on his blog calls it a "demonstration of low value." One of the articles deejov linked to earlier discussed it but framed differently though the gist was the same. Our dynamics are so screwed up. H must just see me so fixated on our relationship and figure, well, why do I need to make extra effort if she goes along with things as they are?

This is all circulating in my head right now. I am still working through it all.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Ah the light bulb is coming on.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

It is  I am still processing it all. I have seen, thinking back, a lot of stuff that I wish had been obvious at the time. Well intentioned on my part, thoughtfully implemented, but not quite "there."

I have been so focussed on the unjustness of it when I should have been protecting me instead of defending me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Good on you, walking. 
I am also just grasping the difference in some aspects of my life.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I do not want to speak too soon here but my feeling differently seems centered more on concentrating on me rather than chaging-me-to-gdt-him-to-change.

Of course I WAS concentrating on me. Wasn't I?  Yes, but as a means to an end. You only go so far with the "I need you to change" thing before you realize it is truly about implementing boundaries and putting you first. I have been able to identify major problems but not done so well with handling them. I guess on some level I just am too much of a "nice" gal. Trying to convince him, sell myself to him when with my words and actions I was actually demeaning myself.

I think I have been too hard on me. This is ingrained stuff... it takes a while to unlearn. And being honest, I know I am a good person. There is nothing wrong with being all those things I am at my core... "nice", loving, caring.But ONLY with boundaries. And integrity. Saying what I mean and standing by that. And backing up my words with actions. So I AM authentic, and genuine. I say what I mean and mean what I say.

Now? I just need to ahead and DO it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

50 likes walking !!!!

The biggest leap for me was to even define who I WAS anymore. 
And that keeps evolving. Boundaries are flexible. They change too. 
To keep up with who you are 

I really like the aspect of doing your best. That changes too, over time. We get better at being ourselves. I'm so happy to hear you are willing to be yourself. !!!!! Yes, that is good enough. Always.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

deejov... do you know who you are?

Not sure I do. "I" have been in a state of flux for a while. My thinking now is "who do I *want* to be?" And I mean that in a positive, character and esteem building way. I have hooked on to a handfull of things that I like and enjoy and have decided to either pursue them or take them up again. The other weekend I went on a road trip with a friend to see a favorite band of mine. It was great fun and something I used to do all the time before children. H has allways encouraged me to get out and having done that, I feel a lot more at ease doing that with friends but without him.

I am also rejoining my roller derby team next month. At this point I have enrolled on their training program. I am not sure if ultimately I am good enough to ever join the bouting team but I figure this will decide it for me!

The other thing is I purchased a home gym. I used to go to the gym but our littlest is very clingy and I felt terrible leaving them in the creche as it was just too traumatic. So H is going to put it together and I have been researching workout programs and thinking about concrete goals I want to achieve.

All positive stuff.

I don't want to talk about H here too much right now. There are things I could say but I don't want to detract from my positive frame of mind. We did go on a date though, organized by him, on Sunday


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I know who I am now. Figured it out in the last year. I'm 47. Better late than never right? Lol


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Yup! Were you happy with who you are M?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Yes, I can now say I know who I am, today.

I realised something when my son got diabetes. I have spent 20 years surviving. Not really living. Following a bunch of rules to stay alive. Eat. Take insulin. Test. Buy food. Cook food. Routine. 

I had no idea how to do anything other than skim through life and try my best to keep everybody else happy. I was miserable. And I didn't know why. 

I still find it very exciting to think about who I am. I went from pondering "oh, what to do. I'm bored" to being overwhelmed with ideas, thoughts, things I want to do. 

I truly feel like a big door had been closed. And I opened it.


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