# Interested in Nothing



## SunWhiskey

Hi people,

I never thought I would be on a forum talking about this.

Long Story Short:


Wife and I got along fairly well. Didn't argue very often. I thought things were great, and apparently she was unhappy. I'm not perfect and made some mistakes relationship wise such as expecting too much of her or pressuring her to be better with her money, but I never cheated, lied, or anything like that. I'm 29. She's 26.


We had dated once when we were both younger. I broke up with her because she was still quite immature.

The we dated again a few years later for about a month, but then she got back with her ex. I kind of understood. She had helped raise his child since he had a job where he was never home except weekends. Some time later after then had been split for half a year or so, we started talking and dating again. Over the next 4 years, got married, had a kid, got a house. You know the deal.


We are married with a 3 year old child.

Wife said she was unhappy one day, but not going to leave me.
During this time she secretly got an apartment and moved out one weekend.
Said she wanted to work things out but needed space.

I then discovered she had been cheating on me with her ex from 5 years ago. Law breaking, drug doing, in and out of jail type of guy.
Her ex from 5 years ago was eating out with his ex at a restaurant and my wife suspected it, drove by, and caught him. Instant Karma. She told me that he hurt her way worse than what she ever did to me. WTF?


I filed for divorce, everything was agreed upon with no arguing. It will be final in August.

Even her own family is all on my side due to her actions as of late. They voluntarily said would support me if I wanted to try to get full custody. But I in no way want to fight a bunch in court or take my child away from her mother.


After 2 weeks of being broke up with her ex, she has already started dating another guy, a guy that her ex works with. In my divorce papers, I have that our kid is not to be around another spouse from 90 days after signing. She is planning a vacation with her new man, our kid, and his kid (same age as our kid) exactly one week after the 90 days is up. Absolutely ridiculous. 2 weeks together, not even divorced and recently out of the other relationship where she was cheating and she is planning family vacations with this guy.



Anyway, this is where I am left. Betrayed. I hate her, yet I miss her. I'm trying my best to move on, and she's been in 2 "serious" relationships.


My problems are, I dislike my career choice (accounting/ sitting in an office all day), but it pays well. Accounting was supposed to be temporary. I want to start a business, but have no idea how I'll ever get the kind of money I need to start it. I was well on my way to saving it all up, but in the divorce I got the house and all the associated bills. My monthly expenses doubled. It's cheaper than rent, and the housing market is crazy in this expanding area. I could sell and buy smaller, but there isn't much available. To be honest though, my bills are reasonable and the value of my home will definitely go up a lot in the years to come.

I could get a roommate, but none of my friends are looking and I don't want or trust a stranger in my house or around my young kid.

My biggest problem is, I don't see the point in anything anymore. I've tried new hobbies, old hobbies, socializing, etc. If it wasn't for my child, I'd probably quit my current job and move into a cheap shack in the woods to live out my days smoking weed and playing video games. I've lost all love for life. I don't feel deeply depressed anymore like when all of this first started happening 5 months ago, but I'm not happy with my life.

I'm still pursuing goals, losing weight, and getting back into dating shape to try and get some of my confidence back. I don't even want to date, but I would like a confidence boost.

Time heals all wounds, yada yada. But I don't know that time will, as my entire perspective on life has changed. My only joy is my child, and I know that one day she will be grown and living her own life where I will just visit with her or see her once or twice a week or something.


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## SunWhiskey

Any recommendations?


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## Sosowa

She is immature and a good cheater ! Unbelievable


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## mikey1

best thing to do is take it one day at a time.. thats all you can do.. I can recommend a site- meetup- they have many groups and activities across the US.. try some and it's less about the activity and more about meeting new people in general to help get you out of your funk. The best way to do that is zone out and get your mind off of it by doing other things...


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## SunCMars

Reading your post text, you express well. 
You sound like a smart guy.

That is a plus.

Keep on, keep on doing what you are doing. Get in shape, go at dating and life slowly. Stay away from alcohol.

The thing about life....

It changes every day, from good to bad, back to good, to neutral, to OK.

We all get into slumps. 
After what she did to you, if you did not feel down, let down, you would have to be a potato.

What sort of business {starting} did you have in mind?





[THM]- Lilith


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## lifeistooshort

You sound pretty together....I think what you're feeling is normal.

Let the anger against her go, its not good for you. But remember that she isn't marriage material.

One suggestion for the future: you mentioned getting into dating shape. That implies you let yourself go.....big no no and never good for a marriage. You should maintain yourself all the time.....its good for you.


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## 3Xnocharm

These feelings are all completely normal. You are still very fresh into all of this, so you still have a lot of emotions and stages to work through. This place you are at is not permanent, I promise you. Let yourself feel it, then keep moving.


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## SunWhiskey

mikey1 said:


> best thing to do is take it one day at a time.. thats all you can do.. I can recommend a site- meetup- they have many groups and activities across the US.. try some and it's less about the activity and more about meeting new people in general to help get you out of your funk. The best way to do that is zone out and get your mind off of it by doing other things...


Thanks. I've gave this a try. There is no real activity or any groups in my area.


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## SunWhiskey

SunCMars said:


> Reading your post text, you express well.
> You sound like a smart guy.
> 
> That is a plus.
> 
> Keep on, keep on doing what you are doing. Get in shape, go at dating and life slowly. Stay away from alcohol.
> 
> The thing about life....
> 
> It changes every day, from good to bad, back to good, to neutral, to OK.
> 
> We all get into slumps.
> After what she did to you, if you did not feel down, let down, you would have to be a potato.
> 
> What sort of business {starting} did you have in mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [THM]- Lilith




I've ran through a thousand ideas over the years, but I've finally settled on an idea. I want to start a local excavation service. I've noticed there are none in the immediate area for at least an hour and a half drive to the major cities in either direction, and even then there are only a couple. This is a fast growing area, as in 30+ major stores restaraunts and businesses have moved in over the past year with a lot more in the works.

To start, I need quite a bit of assets. Nothing astronomical, but certainly not easy at my current salary and expenses. Minimum: 1 dump truck or 1 dump trailer (pretty close in cost), a larger personal truck, heavy equipment trailer, and the excavator itself (will start with a mini excavator). Insurance etc is no big deal. After I can get these things together I want to work nights and weekends to buy a skidsteer. Then hopefully go full time, hire someone to run the skidsteer purchase a backhoe, and go up from there.


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## SunWhiskey

lifeistooshort said:


> You sound pretty together....I think what you're feeling is normal.
> 
> Let the anger against her go, its not good for you. But remember that she isn't marriage material.
> 
> One suggestion for the future: you mentioned getting into dating shape. That implies you let yourself go.....big no no and never good for a marriage. You should maintain yourself all the time.....its good for you.



I'm not in terrible shape. I've lifted pretty steadily for a few years now, much stronger than years ago.

I gave up running due to a bad knee. I just packed on a few pounds from when we met the first time a decade ago. 

But, I'm probably 20 pounds lighter right now than when we last started dating again 5 years ago, before we got married etc. When we met way back when I was a skinny young punk with a 6 pack at 130 lbs. Currently, I've got about 25 lbs to lose and I will have a 6 pack at 150ish lbs. I'm only 5 8'. I've put on a bit of muscle. I would just like to get lean and see my abs again.


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## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> These feelings are all completely normal. You are still very fresh into all of this, so you still have a lot of emotions and stages to work through. This place you are at is not permanent, I promise you. Let yourself feel it, then keep moving.


It looks like I don't really have a choice in the matter. I just want to feel a point in all my goals and tasks.


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## SunWhiskey

My posts aren't posting still.


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## EleGirl

SunWhiskey said:


> My posts aren't posting still.


Try posting again. I just approved a few of your posts. Not sure what's going on but will keep an eye on this.


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## Mr.Married

Hey SW,

Your plan sounds like a good one. I had an uncle who did the same thing.

Here is a bit of a modification to your plan.

Start with a Ditch Witch. You can do the earth work that appeals to you without the need for external equipment. Build capital with that first. The best way is to get contracts
with your city for running street light and utility wiring. Fiber optics works great as well and a certification for fiber optics work is easy to get.

Otherwise:

Start with a skid steer that has a brush clearing attachment and get a contract with a pipeline company to keep the right of ways clear.

Each of the above options start with only one piece of equipment.

You can secure a bank loan easily if you have a contract in hand. 

If you decide to do the brush cutter I recommend you go with the Caterpillar equipment. The foreign made competitor runs a Deutz engine that does not hold up well for that application.


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## SunWhiskey

EleGirl said:


> Try posting again. I just approved a few of your posts. Not sure what's going on but will keep an eye on this.


Testing 1 2 3.


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## SunWhiskey

Mr.Married said:


> Hey SW,
> 
> Your plan sounds like a good one. I had an uncle who did the same thing.
> 
> Here is a bit of a modification to your plan.
> 
> Start with a Ditch Witch. You can do the earth work that appeals to you without the need for external equipment. Build capital with that first. The best way is to get contracts
> with your city for running street light and utility wiring. Fiber optics works great as well and a certification for fiber optics work is easy to get.
> 
> Otherwise:
> 
> Start with a skid steer that has a brush clearing attachment and get a contract with a pipeline company to keep the right of ways clear.
> 
> Each of the above options start with only one piece of equipment.
> 
> You can secure a bank loan easily if you have a contract in hand.
> 
> If you decide to do the brush cutter I recommend you go with the Caterpillar equipment. The foreign made competitor runs a Deutz engine that does not hold up well for that application.



A mini ex and skid-steer puts me in the same realm of needing a bigger truck and trailer, but it would allow me to postpone a dump trailer/ truck.

I like the ditch witch idea more, and it was an original consideration of mine. It does limit the work I can do though.


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## MattMatt

@SunWhiskey this is a great business idea. But unless you have had previous experience I feel it would be a potentially risky venture from a financial and a safety point of view.

Could you get get some experience with a contractor before you go into this business?

You will almost certainly need licences to operate the equipment and you would need proper training.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble but it's not an easy business to operate in and it is certainly not a business for people with no experience. It's also very seasonal and not suitable for winter work.

There aren't many operators in your area? There may be a very good reason for this. Try to find out why before you make a financial commitment. 

What on earth could go wrong, you might be thinking?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...crushed-death-dumper-truck-tipped-garden.html


> Mother-of-four is crushed to death by a dumper truck when it tipped over in her garden while she was building a ramp for her elderly neighbour


and even the professionals get it wrong, sometimes:-
https://www.ioshmagazine.com/article/pc-fined-600-000-after-worker-was-killed-by-dumper-truck


> Principle Contractor fined £600,000 after worker was killed by dumper truck


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## TJW

You have a good plan. That's the best way to get started in business.

And, you've been struck by lightning......I'm sorry to hear of you wife's awful treatment she doled out on you. I'm not a bit surprised that you feel depressed and "what's the use ?? " after all that's happened to you.


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## Spicy

Glad you are rid of her. You will feel better once you start dating a good woman!

The business idea is great. Our friends that did this had to rent equipment at first and then buy the pieces slowly (geez they are expensive!) but now they are set. If your property has a lot of equity, you could possibly do what you said and move into a much smaller place in the meantime, or perhaps do a home equity line of credit to get your equipment.

You are going to do great. Forget her, you have a bright future. Now have fun planning and living it!


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## SunWhiskey

MattMatt said:


> @SunWhiskey this is a great business idea. But unless you have had previous experience I feel it would be a potentially risky venture from a financial and a safety point of view.
> 
> Could you get get some experience with a contractor before you go into this business?
> 
> You will almost certainly need licences to operate the equipment and you would need proper training.
> 
> I'm not trying to burst your bubble but it's not an easy business to operate in and it is certainly not a business for people with no experience. It's also very seasonal and not suitable for winter work.
> 
> There aren't many operators in your area? There may be a very good reason for this. Try to find out why before you make a financial commitment.
> 
> What on earth could go wrong, you might be thinking?
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...crushed-death-dumper-truck-tipped-garden.html
> 
> 
> and even the professionals get it wrong, sometimes:-
> https://www.ioshmagazine.com/article/pc-fined-600-000-after-worker-was-killed-by-dumper-truck



To operate the dump and pull a large equipment trailer, I will need my cdl.
I was previously in the military, and have ran much larger trucks, so I'm not worried at all about operating a small dump.


I've used mini excavators, ditch witches, and skid steers in the past. No licenses are needed to operate any of this equipment.

I haven't ran a backhoe, but controls are relatively the same depending on the model.


It slows down in winter, but isn't seasonal work such as mowing. Water lines, etc, burst more often in the winter, and construction goes on year round. This is one reason I would like to get a model with a cab on it. 


There are some large operators in my area, but there are not many smaller outfits. I can operate with a much lower overhead cost than these 25+ dump truck operations and take smaller residential jobs they typically avoid. I've got 2 friends with some equipment and each operates within his own niche. One of my friends is a one man operation with a dozer, who will certainly refer work my way. Another of my friends is a plumber with a mini ex, but has no way to haul material off as that typically isn't needed in his business. When he digs a hole, he fills it back in. 

There are always risks of giving up a financially secure job, but I like to think I've done a decent risk analysis and hit it from all angles. I'm typically an over-thinker.


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## SunWhiskey

Just an update on the wife:

Yesterday, she caught her most recent man cheating on her with his ex. That's 2 in a row for her now. She messaged me yesterday and said "Karma is a *****."

She had no idea I knew who the second man was.


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## SunWhiskey

Spicy said:


> Glad you are rid of her. You will feel better once you start dating a good woman!
> 
> The business idea is great. Our friends that did this had to rent equipment at first and then buy the pieces slowly (geez they are expensive!) but now they are set. If your property has a lot of equity, you could possibly do what you said and move into a much smaller place in the meantime, or perhaps do a home equity line of credit to get your equipment.
> 
> You are going to do great. Forget her, you have a bright future. Now have fun planning and living it!


I intend to rent some equipment, but certainly want to have at least one piece of personal equipment to start with, plus the means to haul it safely. My current truck would haul a mini ex, but it wouldn't enjoy it.


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## TJW

Just be careful about incurring debts. I believe there can be a wise use of credit, but my own personal view of debt wisdom allows much fewer instances than some others.

I'm not familiar with the business you are planning, so I don't know how depreciation applies to the equipment you will need.

If you decide to gain experience by working in the trade, make sure that it's in another town or area where your business will not be seen as a competitor by your employer.


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## SunWhiskey

TJW said:


> Just be careful about incurring debts. I believe there can be a wise use of credit, but my own personal view of debt wisdom allows much fewer instances than some others.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the business you are planning, so I don't know how depreciation applies to the equipment you will need.
> 
> If you decide to gain experience by working in the trade, make sure that it's in another town or area where your business will not be seen as a competitor by your employer.


The depreciation on heavy equipment where I'm located is typically 10 years. I do have the option to incur the entire expense on my taxes in the year of purchase, but that wouldn't be very helpful starting out.

It is always best to keep debt minimal unless you have an opportunity to leverage it into greater profit. In my instance, I intend to avoid it entirely until I'm established and have an idea of my profitability. My plan on what equipment to purchase after the first piece may different by the time I get that far down the road. I'm flexible. I just want to carve out my own little niche at first and expand as applicable.

Not having to hire a CPA or financial planner will cut out some overhead. Lol.


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## SunWhiskey

I'm struggling with the idea of selling a show car to help start funding things and get moving sooner than later. Problem is, I've spent nearly a decade restoring it by hand. I got the car from my father. He is still alive and well, but still. I probably have 4,000 hours in this car.


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## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> Just an update on the wife:
> 
> Yesterday, she caught her most recent man cheating on her with his ex. That's 2 in a row for her now. She messaged me yesterday and said "Karma is a *****."
> 
> She had no idea I knew who the second man was.


Make sure you dont answer her when she sends you crap like this. No contact.


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## VermiciousKnid

As I tell my clients, hate is good in a situation like this. Hate gives you strength and keeps up your resolve to see this through and come out the other side with what's best for you and your daughter. Keep up that hate until this whole thing is over.


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## Nucking Futs

SunWhiskey said:


> To operate the dump and pull a large equipment trailer, I will need my cdl.
> I was previously in the military, and have ran much larger trucks, so I'm not worried at all about operating a small dump.
> 
> 
> I've used mini excavators, ditch witches, and skid steers in the past. No licenses are needed to operate any of this equipment.
> 
> I haven't ran a backhoe, but controls are relatively the same depending on the model.
> 
> 
> It slows down in winter, but isn't seasonal work such as mowing. Water lines, etc, burst more often in the winter, and construction goes on year round. This is one reason I would like to get a model with a cab on it.
> 
> 
> There are some large operators in my area, but there are not many smaller outfits. I can operate with a much lower overhead cost than these 25+ dump truck operations and take smaller residential jobs they typically avoid. I've got 2 friends with some equipment and each operates within his own niche. One of my friends is a one man operation with a dozer, who will certainly refer work my way. Another of my friends is a plumber with a mini ex, but has no way to haul material off as that typically isn't needed in his business. When he digs a hole, he fills it back in.
> 
> There are always risks of giving up a financially secure job, but I like to think I've done a decent risk analysis and hit it from all angles. I'm typically an over-thinker.


Your plumber buddy with the mini ex, does he use it frequently? Maybe he'd be willing to rent it to you when he's not using it. If you can buy one cash cheap, or cheap for an excavator, that would be better than renting but if you can't buy you can still start your business renting.

Can you repair this stuff yourself? Weld up a damaged bucket? Are you in an area with rocky soil where you'd need a hammer on most jobs? What do excavators go for in your area? I'm just curious about this, I really like your idea.


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## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> Make sure you dont answer her when she sends you crap like this. No contact.


No contact isn't really a good option. We keep open communication about our 3 year old. I try to ignore her about most other things. Usually I'm successful. I do like to hear when things aren't working out as she planned however.


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## Taxman

Sir, I did not need to read too deeply into your post to realize that a) you were blindsided b) you are deadly depressed. This is endemic to the trauma that your exWW heaped upon you from left field. You don't know it, but you have been in a traumatic situation. Now, first, you are now reassessing your life, your wants and your needs. Do not do anything until you have started therapy. I know, I deal with a good number of people who were blindsided by their spouse's infidelity or at minimum, their want to end the marriage. You are shocky, and that is ok. Make no life decisions until you are on firmer footing. Don't quit the job. Don't move. AND for god's sake, hands off the ex and her little circle of screwy. 

You need to know that it gets better. You need to know that she threw you over for less. You need to know that if you mind your own knitting, things will get better. Read a few of the posts in Considering Divorce, under "Those who moved through it...". There are a few like yourself. One whose wife just wanted to test the waters of an affair, and was going to come back. Too bad he divorced her, found another, improved his life and watched hers turn to a pile of dingleberries.


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## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> No contact isn't really a good option. We keep open communication about our 3 year old. I try to ignore her about most other things. Usually I'm successful. I do like to hear when things aren't working out as she planned however.


Of course you have to coparent. And of course you love to hear the failures, lol, just make sure you laugh it up to yourself and dont respond. :grin2:


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## SunWhiskey

Nucking Futs said:


> Your plumber buddy with the mini ex, does he use it frequently? Maybe he'd be willing to rent it to you when he's not using it. If you can buy one cash cheap, or cheap for an excavator, that would be better than renting but if you can't buy you can still start your business renting.
> 
> Can you repair this stuff yourself? Weld up a damaged bucket? Are you in an area with rocky soil where you'd need a hammer on most jobs? What do excavators go for in your area? I'm just curious about this, I really like your idea.


He uses it frequently enough. I might be able to borrow it in a pinch, but I doubt it could be a regular thing.

I want to buy a used one with relatively low hours in the 6500 lb to 7000 lb range..with a cab.. I've been looking and that range is anywhere between $15,000 and $20,000. I could start with an older one in the much cheaper range, but don't really want a high maintenance time bomb. Could rent one for $250+ a day, but that really gives me a very small margin to try and make money on. It's not too feasible part time starting out. If I was lined solid with work and already full time, renting a larger or smaller one for the job I need would be way more doable.

I've been an aircraft mechanic and restore old cars as time permits. I have a welder, garage, etc. I can fix most things. I don't have a lot of experience working on hydraulic systems, but enough mechanical experience that I'm not terribly worried about it. I can replace a pump or a seal as needed. In the down time with one machine will be another scenario in which I'd have to rent once I go full time, at least until I can afford more equipment.

We have clay/ partially rocky soil. I have seen a few mini exes with the hammer attachment. I don't believe I'd need it on most jobs. Can dig most of it. There are some areas where it would definitely save time, plus it would give me more flexibility. The hammer attachments typically go for 4 to 5k. If I don't swing one with my initial purchase, that's another rental scenario.


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## Nucking Futs

SunWhiskey said:


> He uses it frequently enough. I might be able to borrow it in a pinch, but I doubt it could be a regular thing.
> 
> I want to buy a used one with relatively low hours in the 6500 lb to 7000 lb range..with a cab.. I've been looking and that range is anywhere between $15,000 and $20,000. I could start with an older one in the much cheaper range, but don't really want a high maintenance time bomb. Could rent one for $250+ a day, but that really gives me a very small margin to try and make money on. It's not too feasible part time starting out. If I was lined solid with work and already full time, renting a larger or smaller one for the job I need would be way more doable.
> 
> I've been an aircraft mechanic and restore old cars as time permits. I have a welder, garage, etc. I can fix most things. I don't have a lot of experience working on hydraulic systems, but enough mechanical experience that I'm not terribly worried about it. I can replace a pump or a seal as needed. In the down time with one machine will be another scenario in which I'd have to rent once I go full time, at least until I can afford more equipment.
> 
> We have clay/ partially rocky soil. I have seen a few mini exes with the hammer attachment. I don't believe I'd need it on most jobs. Can dig most of it. There are some areas where it would definitely save time, plus it would give me more flexibility. The hammer attachments typically go for 4 to 5k. If I don't swing one with my initial purchase, that's another rental scenario.


Nice. Might want to check out Andrew Camarata on youtube.


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## SunWhiskey

Taxman said:


> Sir, I did not need to read too deeply into your post to realize that a) you were blindsided b) you are deadly depressed. This is endemic to the trauma that your exWW heaped upon you from left field. You don't know it, but you have been in a traumatic situation. Now, first, you are now reassessing your life, your wants and your needs. Do not do anything until you have started therapy. I know, I deal with a good number of people who were blindsided by their spouse's infidelity or at minimum, their want to end the marriage. You are shocky, and that is ok. Make no life decisions until you are on firmer footing. Don't quit the job. Don't move. AND for god's sake, hands off the ex and her little circle of screwy.
> 
> You need to know that it gets better. You need to know that she threw you over for less. You need to know that if you mind your own knitting, things will get better. Read a few of the posts in Considering Divorce, under "Those who moved through it...". There are a few like yourself. One whose wife just wanted to test the waters of an affair, and was going to come back. Too bad he divorced her, found another, improved his life and watched hers turn to a pile of dingleberries.



I'm not quitting the job for at least some time. I'm still saving, and this will take quite a while. But changing careers is far from a new plan. This "temporary" career has turned into a 9 year run, and I'm ready to move on and make it happen. Not really related to her, other than I now have more free time to think about it and pursue it.

I do like the idea of moving, but with my current location, the value of my home is expected to grow quite a bit. It's in a high demand area and very few houses are available. This house was a compromise when we bought it, and now I'm stuck with the things she wanted. I'm not moving any time in the immediate future.

I've never been too keen on the idea of therapy...unless it's spending the weekend on a beach with a case of beer.


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## SunWhiskey

Nucking Futs said:


> Nice. Might want to check out Andrew Camarata on youtube.


Thanks. I'm actually already subscribed to the channel. Lol.


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## TJW

SunWhiskey said:


> I'm ready to move on and make it happen. Not really related to her, other than I now have more free time to think about it and pursue it.


I think you're executing on a sensible plan and I expect over the next few years I'll hear of your success. You have an excellent skillset behind you. You are thinking clearly and rationally. I also expect to hear that you have leveraged all those aspects of your background to reach your goals.

This time can be converted from a $hit$andwich into a time where you moved into a long-contemplated career. Congratulations on remaining level-headed and directionally stable.


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## Spicy

Whatever you do, never let your schlong near her nasty cooter again. Don’t ever drink around her, or put yourself in a situation that your guard is down and you may accept an offer for sex. I know you say never, but I’m here to remind you for good measure. It’s hard to turn down sex after all. >


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## skerzoid

Your wife is a serial cheater and is never going to be a candidate for anything but a side piece. 

Make sure you fix your picker when you do start dating. Try to find one with a more normal background. She seems to like the bad boys instead of accountants. 

I would go for full custody if you are concerned about your daughter. Your wife is going to be bringing some pretty bad characters around her. Depending on the state you live in, its a pretty tough battle though. She is probably a drug user herself.


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## BarbedFenceRider

SunWhiskey said:


> I'm not in terrible shape. I've lifted pretty steadily for a few years now, much stronger than years ago.
> 
> I gave up running due to a bad knee. I just packed on a few pounds from when we met the first time a decade ago.
> 
> But, I'm probably 20 pounds lighter right now than when we last started dating again 5 years ago, before we got married etc. When we met way back when I was a skinny young punk with a 6 pack at 130 lbs. Currently, I've got about 25 lbs to lose and I will have a 6 pack at 150ish lbs. I'm only 5 8'. I've put on a bit of muscle. I would just like to get lean and see my abs again.


I had to start a therapy approach to lifting and treadmill time since I was injured in a 2nd. job trying to keep up with bills and such. And while I did tone up the chest and get the arms alot bigger. I have improved my mile times while running, and my BP is back on track.

The sideline is that there are plenty of females that will want companionship and be hawking around. That WILL put the mojo back in your step. Also, if your old hobbies don't interest you anymore, get new ones. Be sure to step out of your comfort zone and try things that you think you may not like but won't make you absolutely miserable. You may just find something and someone to redirect your attention....Good luck.


----------



## SunWhiskey

BarbedFenceRider said:


> I had to start a therapy approach to lifting and treadmill time since I was injured in a 2nd. job trying to keep up with bills and such. And while I did tone up the chest and get the arms alot bigger. I have improved my mile times while running, and my BP is back on track.
> 
> The sideline is that there are plenty of females that will want companionship and be hawking around. That WILL put the mojo back in your step. Also, if your old hobbies don't interest you anymore, get new ones. Be sure to step out of your comfort zone and try things that you think you may not like but won't make you absolutely miserable. You may just find something and someone to redirect your attention....Good luck.


So far I'm not seeing any of these females hawking around. It's kind of strange. It used to not be such a problem. I could send a message and be doing something that night with one girl and something else the next morning with another. I guess age happened.


----------



## SunWhiskey

TJW said:


> I think you're executing on a sensible plan and I expect over the next few years I'll hear of your success. You have an excellent skillset behind you. You are thinking clearly and rationally. I also expect to hear that you have leveraged all those aspects of your background to reach your goals.
> 
> This time can be converted from a $hit$andwich into a time where you moved into a long-contemplated career. Congratulations on remaining level-headed and directionally stable.


I hope you are right and I can make this pan out. I can't take sitting at a desk the rest of my life. 

There is no motivation for me to work harder. I get paid my salary as long as the job is done. It's boring. Sometimes I have to think really hard to solve issues, but it's never satisfying. I need something to drive me. There is no end result to take in. I can't see the fruits of my labor. It all ends up in an excel spreadsheet somewhere. Then I do it all again the next month.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Spicy said:


> Whatever you do, never let your schlong near her nasty cooter again. Don’t ever drink around her, or put yourself in a situation that your guard is down and you may accept an offer for sex. I know you say never, but I’m here to remind you for good measure. It’s hard to turn down sex after all. >


Especially when I haven't been laid in 6 or 7 months...


----------



## SunWhiskey

skerzoid said:


> Your wife is a serial cheater and is never going to be a candidate for anything but a side piece.
> 
> Make sure you fix your picker when you do start dating. Try to find one with a more normal background. She seems to like the bad boys instead of accountants.
> 
> I would go for full custody if you are concerned about your daughter. Your wife is going to be bringing some pretty bad characters around her. Depending on the state you live in, its a pretty tough battle though. She is probably a drug user herself.


I can 100% confirm she's not a drug user. Afraid of them. I smoke maybe once a year with friends if they have any and offer and she wouldn't even touch marijuana.
It's sort of odd. She was a bookworm, straight A student, etc. I know her deep down, so I don't understand her attraction to idiots.

When we first met I was military, raced sportbikes, etc. I don't like being an accountant either, but honestly..the only thing that changed is my job title.

At this point, full custody is way too expensive, probably wouldn't happen anyway, and honestly.. I want my daughter to have a good relationship with her mom.


----------



## SunWhiskey

She has been messaging me a lot more and being nicer again. I wonder how long this lasts until guy number 3 sends her a random FB message and she jumps his bones.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> She has been messaging me a lot more and being nicer again. I wonder how long this lasts until guy number 3 sends her a random FB message and she jumps his bones.


Until YOU put a stop to it....


----------



## SunWhiskey

I probably just made a mistake then.

We had been messaging back and forth. She was talking about where my daughter and her went to dinner last night.

Said my daughter didn't touch her food, and invited me to have her leftovers for lunch. Her new apartment is about 2 miles from my work. Went to her apartment for 30ish minutes. Ate. Chit chatted. Just random stuff... nothing relationship wise. She went to show me something on her phone and a Snapchat came through with a guys name at that time.. Guess I know who the new replacement is.

I FB stalked him...He lives like 90 miles away. 

I should have never went there.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> I should have never went there.


NOPE. WTF were you thinking?? You are supposed to be detaching.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> NOPE. WTF were you thinking?? You are supposed to be detaching.



I wish I had an answer to this question. 

Still not over her. Secretly, I want her to beg me back so I can shoot her down. 

But the reality is I need to get the hell over it and not think about her at all.


----------



## Marc878

You can't run a hard 180 no contact you'll just reset the clock everytime.

Better wise up bud


----------



## SpinyNorman

No wonder you feel bad, divorce is never a picnic and she is worse than most. It's not at all unusual to feel depressed at a time like this, or for the attachment feelings to resurface. Don't beat yourself up about any of it.

We all know(you too) nothing good is going to come from getting back w/ her, for an hour or a year. 

It may take a while until you "feel like yourself again", but make an effort to do something fun every so often. If it doesn't always go great, that's to be expected. If you feel like you're not making progress, or feel like you need help, get it. You can find counselors online or ask your medical doctor. 

Don't research her affairs. Don't smell food in your fridge that has gone bad.

As for the upsides, she's being civil and you're not bankrupting each other. You have a good job and your house is likely to appreciate. Divorce is usually a financial setback, but you should be able to weather this one.

Keep us posted.


----------



## As'laDain

SunWhiskey said:


> I wish I had an answer to this question.
> 
> Still not over her. Secretly, I want her to beg me back so I can shoot her down.
> 
> But the reality is I need to get the hell over it and not think about her at all.


thats where those meetup groups come in really handy... 

its not necessarily about the hobby, its about the people. just look at this forum... you have already found people who are interested in chatting with you about your business plans, and this is a forum about marriage issues. just find a group that takes part in an activity that wont make you miserable, as an earlier poster suggested, and go do it. meet people. try to go to at LEAST one group meetup a week at first, until you find the right group. you will know you found the right group because you will want to interact with them again, regardless of what they are actually doing. 

by the way, you are actually handling this a LOT better than many we have seen here. so kudos for that.


----------



## SunWhiskey

As'laDain said:


> thats where those meetup groups come in really handy...
> 
> its not necessarily about the hobby, its about the people. just look at this forum... you have already found people who are interested in chatting with you about your business plans, and this is a forum about marriage issues. just find a group that takes part in an activity that wont make you miserable, as an earlier poster suggested, and go do it. meet people. try to go to at LEAST one group meetup a week at first, until you find the right group. you will know you found the right group because you will want to interact with them again, regardless of what they are actually doing.
> 
> by the way, you are actually handling this a LOT better than many we have seen here. so kudos for that.


I definitely didn't handle it great at first. It's just that a bit of time has passed since then. At first I begged her back, even after she cheated. 0 self respect. All I could think of was keeping my family together and not letting my daughter grow up in a broken home. I did as a kid, and it sucked. Just couldn't fathom how someone who was all about me originally could become so cold and hard...so quickly.


As far as the meetup groups, there is seriously nothing in my area. Closest event is 90 miles away.

My ego was crushed. Still is I reckon.


----------



## As'laDain

SunWhiskey said:


> I definitely didn't handle it great at first. It's just that a bit of time has passed since then. At first I begged her back, even after she cheated. 0 self respect. All I could think of was keeping my family together and not letting my daughter grow up in a broken home. I did as a kid, and it sucked. Just couldn't fathom how someone who was all about me originally could become so cold and hard...so quickly.
> 
> 
> As far as the meetup groups, there is seriously nothing in my area. Closest event is 90 miles away.
> 
> My ego was crushed. Still is I reckon.


I feel you man. 

Another option for meeting people is to start a small business, like you are trying to do at some point. I pay a guy and his brother 150 every 2 weeks to come do all of our yard maintenance and help with whatever projects i have going on. I usually work with him while he is present. He has told me that starting the small lawn care business in a rural area was probably the best decision he ever made, even though it keeps him busy. He is a very friendly guy, and has made a lot of friends through the business in our area, which surprised him a lot. He is a black guy from a big city, and never expected all these "white farmer types" as he puts it, to be so welcoming. 

It doesn't take him too long to get the regular yard work done, so he asked if i would mind if he took some of the cuttings from our rose bushes so that he can try propagating them to sell later. I was impressed by his drive, so i offered to let him set up an area on my property solely to grow anything he can propagate. Apparently, im not alone in making such an offer. He has potted plants growing on several peoples property. 

You will undoubtedly come across people who you cant stand dealing with, but as long as you are friendly and do good work, you will likely meet a lot of cool folks doing any business that puts you in touch with people. And that's how doors really get opened. 

I dont know if you have a disability rating, but if you do, you can also look at disabled veteran preferred contracts. Even if you aren't disabled, if you can find someone who is, you can often find sub contractor work through them. My wife is a disabled veteran. When we owned a tool business, we met some people who do nothing but chase those disabled veteran contracts. They had several subcontractors that did many different kinds of work, and there was usually more contracts available to them than subcontractors to fill them. At least 3 percent of all federal contracting dollars have to go to service disabled veteran owned businesses, and the government has always had trouble finding enough businesses owned by service disabled veterans to give those contracts to. 

That means that there are almost always more contracts available than qualified businesses to give them to. Nothing else, i would look into it just to see what is available.


----------



## SunWhiskey

As'laDain said:


> I feel you man.
> 
> Another option for meeting people is to start a small business, like you are trying to do at some point. I pay a guy and his brother 150 every 2 weeks to come do all of our yard maintenance and help with whatever projects i have going on. I usually work with him while he is present. He has told me that starting the small lawn care business in a rural area was probably the best decision he ever made, even though it keeps him busy. He is a very friendly guy, and has made a lot of friends through the business in our area, which surprised him a lot. He is a black guy from a big city, and never expected all these "white farmer types" as he puts it, to be so welcoming.
> 
> It doesn't take him too long to get the regular yard work done, so he asked if i would mind if he took some of the cuttings from our rose bushes so that he can try propagating them to sell later. I was impressed by his drive, so i offered to let him set up an area on my property solely to grow anything he can propagate. Apparently, im not alone in making such an offer. He has potted plants growing on several peoples property.
> 
> You will undoubtedly come across people who you cant stand dealing with, but as long as you are friendly and do good work, you will likely meet a lot of cool folks doing any business that puts you in touch with people. And that's how doors really get opened.
> 
> I dont know if you have a disability rating, but if you do, you can also look at disabled veteran preferred contracts. Even if you aren't disabled, if you can find someone who is, you can often find sub contractor work through them. My wife is a disabled veteran. When we owned a tool business, we met some people who do nothing but chase those disabled veteran contracts. They had several subcontractors that did many different kinds of work, and there was usually more contracts available to them than subcontractors to fill them. At least 3 percent of all federal contracting dollars have to go to service disabled veteran owned businesses, and the government has always had trouble finding enough businesses owned by service disabled veterans to give those contracts to.
> 
> That means that there are almost always more contracts available than qualified businesses to give them to. Nothing else, i would look into it just to see what is available.


Definitely some interesting points. 

No. I'm not disabled. Just a Veteran, but thanks for the pro-tip.

Truly never expected a bunch of decent business advice on this forum, but hey.. I guess everyone is in some sort of relationship. Thanks!


----------



## Tex X

SunWhiskey said:


> Still not over her. Secretly, I want her to beg me back so I can shoot her down.


That's a dangerous game to play and one that guys rarely if ever win. She's trying to keep you around as plan "B". Don't be that guy.


----------



## oldshirt

SunWhiskey said:


> If it wasn't for my child, I'd probably quit my current job and move into a cheap shack in the woods to live out my days smoking weed and playing video games.


Yeah Dawg!!!! 

That sounds like a great goal to me!!

I am 55 and still together with my wife and two teens and that is my goal in life too!! 

Although in my fantasy world I'm not really into video games and I'd like to get a hippy van and make a road trip to those legal brothels in Nevada a few times a year :-D

Edit: I need to clarify that this is a great goal for AFTER your daughter is an adult and able to take care of herself. 

I certainly did not mean that you should actually quit your job or not provide for your daughter adequately. 

Just that it sounds like a great future life


----------



## NJ2

Have you seen the Netflix series "after life"? It is about a guy whose wife dies(he loses her-same but different) and loses all his joy in life.....it's only 6 half hour episodes but it's message is a good one.

I laughed- it's Ricky jervais - and I sobbed.....but in the end I held on to the message - life can unfold in ways we don't expect 

I wish you peace-and your ex sounds like an immature silly idiot- you on the other hand sound like an excellent guy who some worthy girl deserves a chance at


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> I wish I had an answer to this question.
> 
> Still not over her. Secretly, I want her to beg me back so I can shoot her down.
> 
> But the reality is I need to get the hell over it and not think about her at all.


The do-over you wish for sounds like wanting to mud wrestle a pig. You'd be in their element and unlikely to win, and even if you did win you'd get really dirty. Why not just let them have the mud and spend your time in a nicer environment and w/ the people who appreciate it.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Well, I had been doing better for about a month, but this weekend I really hit rock bottom again. I didn't do anything regrettable. I've just been depressed as hell since Friday. Still am this morning.

We had the state required parenting class this morning for getting divorced. 4 hours Saturday morning. Wife was there too. We were talking and getting along fine. Then we went and grabbed lunch after the classes. She mentioned she was going to the lake with her girlfriend. I asked if she was getting out on a boat with someone or something. Said no.

My weekend with daughter, so I went and got daughter.

She video called daughter about 6. I seen a Snapchat she was on some random guys boat. Then that was the last I heard of her. She can't swim, etc. I sent her a 1 a.m. message asking if she was ok. Worried about her literally all night.

Finally got a response at 10 a.m. the next day. Said she don't know why messages didn't come through. She asked "why wouldn't she be ok?" Then didn't message all day again. Video called daughter at 7 or 8. She was out at a bar last night. 

I shouldn't care, but I still do. This weekend has been ****ing hard.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I'm sorry you struggled this weekend, but checking in on her like that is a BIG NO-NO! Please dont do that again, work on detaching. You will never make any progress like this.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> I'm sorry you struggled this weekend, but checking in on her like that is a BIG NO-NO! Please dont do that again, work on detaching. You will never make any progress like this.


Just removed her snapchat and instagram. I still have her on FB, but I unfollowed. 

She seems to be on Snapchat the most now, because the messages dissappear I'm sure. I'm guessing she developed that habit toward the end of our relationship.


----------



## jlg07

SunWhiskey said:


> Hi people,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could get a roommate, but none of my friends are looking and I don't want or trust a stranger in my house or around my young kid.
> Do you think you could get an apartment for you and your child, and RENT OUT your house to make sure those expenses are covered? This way you keep the investment, and it will get you out of your old environment (memories)
> 
> My biggest problem is, I don't see the point in anything anymore. I've tried new hobbies, old hobbies, socializing, etc. If it wasn't for my child, I'd probably quit my current job and move into a cheap shack in the woods to live out my days smoking weed and playing video games. I've lost all love for life. I don't feel deeply depressed anymore like when all of this first started happening 5 months ago, but I'm not happy with my life.
> Acutally, no interest/not wanting to do anything is a sign of depression.
> Perhaps you should talk to your primary care doctor about this. You may be able to get something temporarily to help you out of it.
> 
> I'm still pursuing goals, losing weight, and getting back into dating shape to try and get some of my confidence back. I don't even want to date, but I would like a confidence boost.
> 
> Time heals all wounds, yada yada. But I don't know that time will, as my entire perspective on life has changed. My only joy is my child, and I know that one day she will be grown and living her own life where I will just visit with her or see her once or twice a week or something.


Moving forward like you are doing (getting in shape, taking care of house/child) is sometimes the only thing you can do for a while to get through the bad times. 

VERY sorry you are going through this, but you are WAY better off getting away from your STBXW. She is STILL immature, and she really isn't who you thought she was.

Sorry -- just caught up on the full thread. I think it's good you have a plan for your business and life moving forward. STOP playing her games. ONLY email/text her about daughter and divorce. IGNORE everything else she says. It's the only way you will detach. I agree with another poster, you should have full custody any way you can -- your wife is spiraling into the gutter and would be much better to NOT have your D around that.


----------



## SunWhiskey

jlg07 said:


> Moving forward like you are doing (getting in shape, taking care of house/child) is sometimes the only thing you can do for a while to get through the bad times.
> 
> VERY sorry you are going through this, but you are WAY better off getting away from your STBXW. She is STILL immature, and she really isn't who you thought she was.


Renting an apartment would mean I'd probably need to sell off a lot of my hobbies, kayaking, motorcycles, vintage car. I also would have to get rid of my 2 dogs and 2 cats in most scenarios.

I lived in an apartment once. I told myself I'd never go back to one. Truly miserable existence. I don't know how people do it to be honest. Neighbors being loud and obnoxious. Random idiots beating on doors. Ghetto fights in the parking lot. Dogs not properly picked up after, etc.


I don't know if she isn't who I thought she was, or I drove her to be this way. I was unhappy with my job before my current job for a couple years, so I wasn't always a joy to be around. I complained about it a lot. I always tried to make sure to do stuff with her, but she had some things I had pet peeves about, like picking up after herself. This was the main cause of any issues we had. She said it eventually all built up and I drove her away.

I fixed the job issue and found a place I can tolerate now, even though it's not the career I want. The pet peeve I could live with.



As far as that being the only thing I can do for a while, how long is a while? It's been 6 months of misery after finding out she was not happy with our marriage. Then I discovered the affair in February and she moved out. I'm sick of being miserable. Truly, all I want is things to go back to how they were. I want to fix things. It may be my ego, but surely to god my ego isn't this big.


----------



## jlg07

"I don't know if she isn't who I thought she was, or I drove her to be this way. I was unhappy with my job before my current job for a couple years, so I wasn't always a joy to be around. I complained about it a lot. I always tried to make sure to do stuff with her, but she had some things I had pet peeves about, like picking up after herself. This was the main cause of any issues we had. She said it eventually all built up and I drove her away."

BS - YOU didn't cause her to cheat. If she wasn't happy, she should have divorced YOU. YOU DO NOT know who she is now (you didn't drive her to anything). Being unhappy, complaining, etc. -- I get that she may not have been happy about it, but THAT doesn't cause her to cheat. That means that she should have had arguments over it, discussions, maybe even counseling, but NOT cheating.

As for fixing things, you really should NOT want her back -- look at the crap she's done in just a few short months -- out partying like she isn't a Mom, banging anything she wants. It is not something YOU can fix. If both partners are not 100% in, there is no way to fix it. Detach -- ONLY text/email about your child or things to do with the divorce (that isn't completed yet, right)? Other than that NO answers/discussions/etc. about going out on a boat, hanging at a bar with her friends, NONE OF THAT. Don't pain shop by trying to see what she is/was up to.


----------



## SunWhiskey

jlg07 said:


> "I don't know if she isn't who I thought she was, or I drove her to be this way. I was unhappy with my job before my current job for a couple years, so I wasn't always a joy to be around. I complained about it a lot. I always tried to make sure to do stuff with her, but she had some things I had pet peeves about, like picking up after herself. This was the main cause of any issues we had. She said it eventually all built up and I drove her away."
> 
> BS - YOU didn't cause her to cheat. If she wasn't happy, she should have divorced YOU. YOU DO NOT know who she is now (you didn't drive her to anything). Being unhappy, complaining, etc. -- I get that she may not have been happy about it, but THAT doesn't cause her to cheat. That means that she should have had arguments over it, discussions, maybe even counseling, but NOT cheating.
> 
> As for fixing things, you really should NOT want her back -- look at the crap she's done in just a few short months -- out partying like she isn't a Mom, banging anything she wants. It is not something YOU can fix. If both partners are not 100% in, there is no way to fix it. Detach -- ONLY text/email about your child or things to do with the divorce (that isn't completed yet, right)? Other than that NO answers/discussions/etc. about going out on a boat, hanging at a bar with her friends, NONE OF THAT. Don't pain shop by trying to see what she is/was up to.



Well, I found out both of those things when she called and spoke with my daughter. We allow her to video chat each night. And she's not old enough where I can just hand her the phone and let her go off and talk to mommy.

I like being able to at least see and speak to her once each day, so I'm not willing to give that up.

Divorce in progress. Currently just awaiting the final court date.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> As far as that being the only thing I can do for a while, how long is a while? It's been 6 months of misery after finding out she was not happy with our marriage. Then I discovered the affair in February and she moved out. I'm sick of being miserable. Truly, all I want is things to go back to how they were. I want to fix things. It may be my ego, but surely to god my ego isn't this big.


You are prolonging your own misery and stopping your own healing because you will NOT leave her alone! You cant fix this, so time to shift your focus to what you CAN control, which are your own actions. Stop talking to her, stop hanging out with her, start working out, start spending time with friends and family, start doing projects around the house, start a new hobby. STOP dwelling on her and what she is doing/has done. By continuing on with her the way you are, you are only making yourself look weak and pathetic in her eyes, and she will take advantage of it and use you wherever it suits her. Have some self respect, and cut her off.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> You are prolonging your own misery and stopping your own healing because you will NOT leave her alone! You cant fix this, so time to shift your focus to what you CAN control, which are your own actions. Stop talking to her, stop hanging out with her, start working out, start spending time with friends and family, start doing projects around the house, start a new hobby. STOP dwelling on her and what she is doing/has done. By continuing on with her the way you are, you are only making yourself look weak and pathetic in her eyes, and she will take advantage of it and use you wherever it suits her. Have some self respect, and cut her off.


I manage for a while, but apparently I just slip back into it. Like a yo yo diet, but with pain substituted for carbs.

I was fine for most of this last month, and here I am again feeling the same type of way.


----------



## SunWhiskey

So hungover.


----------



## jlg07

SunWhiskey said:


> So hungover.


While I get it, don't make it a habit! Maybe you need to substitute sun TEA instead of the SunWhiskey....:grin2:


----------



## WorkingWife

SunWhiskey said:


> I've ran through a thousand ideas over the years, but I've finally settled on an idea. I want to start a local excavation service. I've noticed there are none in the immediate area for at least an hour and a half drive to the major cities in either direction, and even then there are only a couple. This is a fast growing area, as in 30+ major stores restaraunts and businesses have moved in over the past year with a lot more in the works.
> 
> To start, I need quite a bit of assets. Nothing astronomical, but certainly not easy at my current salary and expenses. Minimum: 1 dump truck or 1 dump trailer (pretty close in cost), a larger personal truck, heavy equipment trailer, and the excavator itself (will start with a mini excavator). Insurance etc is no big deal. After I can get these things together I want to work nights and weekends to buy a skidsteer. Then hopefully go full time, hire someone to run the skidsteer purchase a backhoe, and go up from there.


Wow! That's a far cry from being an accountant. And it sounds like a very well thought out idea.

Let me ask you this - with what you know about number crunching, do you think you could put together a proposal and get a business loan to buy the equipment? Something manageable? Can equipment like that be leased temporarily for significantly less than buying it? 

You do sound a little depressed. Having a job you dislike doesn't help, but the break up is probably most of it plus the split sucking away most of what you saved.

I believe you will come out on top in the long run though. You sound like a nice, sensible guy. She sounds like she has some serious emotional problems. And TRUST ME, she has NOT been in two "SERIOUS" relationships already. She has problems and she has glommed onto guys to distract herself from the discomfort and emptiness of being her. This is not hard for any woman her age to do. 

I know it sounds cliche but you ARE lucky to be rid of her. And you do have a beautiful little daughter from it. You are still young and have many years ahead of you. 5 months is not long at all for something like this. Your feelings are normal but also TEMPORARY. Some day you're going to look at that broken woman and be so glad she's someone else's problem and feel so sorry for the train wreck that she is that you won't be able to hate her anymore. You'll just know you dodged a bullet and got a daughter.

Stay the course!


----------



## SunWhiskey

jlg07 said:


> While I get it, don't make it a habit! Maybe you need to substitute sun TEA instead of the SunWhiskey....:grin2:


Not a habit. A couple friends came over. One who gave up everything he owned and moved 1,200 miles away from his family to be with a girl he met here at college. She recently broke up with him and he moved back here. Her reason? Said he was selfish.

Other friend, caught his wife cheating on Valentines day 5 years ago. Still in a child custody battle. Very dirty fighting woman.

So we drank and complained about women. I had a bit much.


----------



## SunWhiskey

WorkingWife said:


> Wow! That's a far cry from being an accountant. And it sounds like a very well thought out idea.


Accounting was only ever supposed to be a means to an end. But now I'm not so sure it was the best choice. Hopefully it can still work for me.



WorkingWife said:


> Let me ask you this - with what you know about number crunching, do you think you could put together a proposal and get a business loan to buy the equipment? Something manageable? Can equipment like that be leased temporarily for significantly less than buying it?


I could lease the equipment, but I would be in the negative trying to get started part time. Would be spending as much as I'm making in the business working only part time. On any business loan around here, you can get maybe 10k without an effort, but over that and they want you to show some profitability in your business before loaning any more.

I still think it's best I save and buy a nice low hour machine outright. The dump trailer will be new, as there aren't many used available. I will start without one, but if I find people are wanting me to move the materials a way more often, I will go ahead and get one sooner. May finance it. The heavy equipment trailer can be had used for around $1,500, so not a big deal. I may go ahead and buy one soon anyway.




WorkingWife said:


> You do sound a little depressed. Having a job you dislike doesn't help, but the break up is probably most of it plus the split sucking away most of what you saved.



Double expenses really took away most of my ability to save. I was able to comfortably put away about 700 each biweekly paycheck before. Now I can put away maybe 300 each check, and that's if I don't buy anything extra or go out on the weekends...etc.




WorkingWife said:


> I believe you will come out on top in the long run though. You sound like a nice, sensible guy. She sounds like she has some serious emotional problems. And TRUST ME, she has NOT been in two "SERIOUS" relationships already. She has problems and she has glommed onto guys to distract herself from the discomfort and emptiness of being her. This is not hard for any woman her age to do.


The first one was surely serious. She left me for him. She had dated him for several years in the past and raised his child while he was on the road.

The second one, rebound from the first.




WorkingWife said:


> I know it sounds cliche but you ARE lucky to be rid of her. And you do have a beautiful little daughter from it. You are still young and have many years ahead of you. 5 months is not long at all for something like this. Your feelings are normal but also TEMPORARY. Some day you're going to look at that broken woman and be so glad she's someone else's problem and feel so sorry for the train wreck that she is that you won't be able to hate her anymore. You'll just know you dodged a bullet and got a daughter.
> 
> Stay the course!


As it looks, I'm not so sure. 

She's quite successful/ very lucky in her career. If she stays the course and finishes her degree, she is a shoe in to be the boss at her work in a few years. They already told her as much. That will put her at a salary that is very uncommon around this area. Easily double my current pay, which is also more than the average for the area.

Her personal life, who knows what will happen.


Thank your for the vote of confidence however!


----------



## SunWhiskey

Signed up for a 9 mile hike this weekend with a meetup group. They are coming from about an hour away to do a hike about 30 minutes from my house.

Sadly, it looks like it will be rained out. I hadn't done cardio in so long that the hike would have probably been a challenge. I figured that would distract me for the whole day. Now I don't know what I'll do.


----------



## SunWhiskey

SunWhiskey said:


> Signed up for a 9 mile hike this weekend with a meetup group. They are coming from about an hour away to do a hike about 30 minutes from my house.
> 
> Sadly, it looks like it will be rained out. I hadn't done cardio in so long that the hike would have probably been a challenge. I figured that would distract me for the whole day. Now I don't know what I'll do.


We ended up being able to do the hike. It was a little wet. It was 10 miles with 800 foot elevation change.

Got home and didn't do a thing else all weekend due to knees being completely shot. 

Had a date scheduled for Saturday night. I got ghosted. So yeah, still not feeling much better about myself


----------



## SunWhiskey

She's moving into a house her dad owns this weekend and asked to borrow my truck. I told her yes. I see no harm in it, but I don't know if I should have just out of spite.


----------



## Betrayedone

Keep doing the meetup activities. They helped me a lot.....


----------



## SunWhiskey

Betrayedone said:


> Keep doing the meetup activities. They helped me a lot.....


I may do some of the closer hiking ones, but for the most part they are all about 90 miles away. That's too far.


----------



## Betrayedone

Yes, they can be location dependent......but given the chance, stay with it. I was in a dance club group locally. 15 women, and me......Was never turned down for a dance!


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> She's moving into a house her dad owns this weekend and asked to borrow my truck. I told her yes. I see no harm in it, but I don't know if I should have just out of spite.


You don't have to lend her your truck, but spite isn't a good reason not to, unless she starts being spiteful.


----------



## SunWhiskey

She didn't move. I was hoping. She keeps talking about buying a house and keeps telling me about the houses, but I'm not sure she's serious.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> She didn't move. I was hoping. She keeps talking about buying a house and keeps telling me about the houses, but I'm not sure she's serious.


Stop talking to her! You arent listening to the advice we keep giving you! Who the hell cares if she buys a house or not??


----------



## SunWhiskey

So I helped my very young child get her something for mother's day.

When she mentioned getting something for me for father's day last week, I told her she didn't have to but it was up to her.

She didn't. This morning I messaged her and told her I was a little upset by it. Just said it would of been nice to be surprised.
Now I'm getting the silent treatment. Am I wrong here?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Once you told her she didn't have too it's a no reason to be mad scenario.

Were you lying when you told her that?

(This is the way she sees it)

I get you, it would have been nice.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> So I helped my very young child get her something for mother's day.
> 
> When she mentioned getting something for me for father's day last week, I told her she didn't have to but it was up to her.
> 
> She didn't. This morning I messaged her and told her I was a little upset by it. Just said it would of been nice to be surprised.
> Now I'm getting the silent treatment. Am I wrong here?


Clearly I am just beating my head against the wall, here.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Once you told her she didn't have too it's a no reason to be mad scenario.
> 
> Were you lying when you told her that?
> 
> (This is the way she sees it)
> 
> I get you, it would have been nice.




Wasn't lying. She's not obligated. I'm not going to ask to be surprised.

Let's just say, I put a whole lot of thought and effort (not money) into our daughter's gift for her. 
It seems common courtesy to return the favor. 

I was excited about seeing our daughter's face light up when she saw she made her mom happy. But when tasked with the same thing, it was nothing more than a burden to her.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> Stop talking to her! You arent listening to the advice we keep giving you! Who the hell cares if she buys a house or not??





3Xnocharm said:


> Clearly I am just beating my head against the wall, here.




I talk to her way less, but I don't really see the benefit it cutting all communication or being a jerk and ignoring someone who I do still care about.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> I talk to her way less, but I don't really see the benefit it cutting all communication or being a jerk and ignoring someone who I do still care about.


Because it helps you to move forward and STOP caring! All this does is prolong you not being able to let go, and makes her feel like she has control over you, that she has you firmly in place as her backup plan! It encourages her to just use you, and you will keep allowing it because in all honesty, you dont have the balls to let her go like you need to.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> Because it helps you to move forward and STOP caring! All this does is prolong you not being able to let go, and makes her feel like she has control over you, that she has you firmly in place as her backup plan! It encourages her to just use you, and you will keep allowing it because in all honesty, you dont have the balls to let her go like you need to.


You may be right.


----------



## TJW

SunWhiskey said:


> It seems common courtesy to return the favor.


So, in reality, you did have an expectation. This is a belief-system which can bring all sorts of pain to you, in your life. You cannot expect other people to "return the favor". You must give, with no expectation that you will receive like-kind. Otherwise, you are letting yourself in for a world of pain.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

TJW said:


> So, in reality, you did have an expectation. This is a belief-system which can bring all sorts of pain to you, in your life. You cannot expect other people to "return the favor". You must give, with no expectation that you will receive like-kind. Otherwise, you are letting yourself in for a world of pain.


She is your soon to be EX WIFE, you need to have ZERO expectations of her. She fired you as her husband, she has no reason to do anything for you at all. Would you expect your former employer to send you a bonus check at the end of the year??


----------



## SunWhiskey

TJW said:


> So, in reality, you did have an expectation. This is a belief-system which can bring all sorts of pain to you, in your life. You cannot expect other people to "return the favor". You must give, with no expectation that you will receive like-kind. Otherwise, you are letting yourself in for a world of pain.


Having no expectations of anyone seems like I am shafting myself of how I'm expecting to be treated.

Knowing what you do and don't deserve is usually addressed as a good thing on these forums? If there were no expectations, this place wouldn't exist.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> She is your soon to be EX WIFE, you need to have ZERO expectations of her. She fired you as her husband, she has no reason to do anything for you at all. Would you expect your former employer to send you a bonus check at the end of the year??



She's a current co-parent, not a former co-parent. I guess I shouldn't have expectations here either. Sadly, I do.


----------



## TJW

SunWhiskey said:


> Having no expectations of anyone seems like I am shafting myself of how I'm expecting to be treated.


If you expect no return, then that is how you expect to be treated. There is no "shaft", and no associated rectal discomfort.



SunWhiskey said:


> Knowing what you do and don't deserve is usually addressed as a good thing on these forums?


Yes. However, these forums are not anything other than an expression of many different people's opinions. And, yes, there would be far fewer threads on this and many other similar forums if people did not formulate expectation sets of their own.

My opinion is that your currently-formulated expectation set does not serve you well, and that if you reconsider how you approach life and relationships to others, you may be happier.



SunWhiskey said:


> She's a current co-parent, not a former co-parent. I guess I shouldn't have expectations here either. Sadly, I do.


There's nothing to be sad about. These expectations and thoughts are yours, not your ex's. You can make decisions to change them. You won't be able to change your ex, nor any other person. But these things are yours.


----------



## SunWhiskey

My point is, if I had low to no expectations of others, of course we'd all be happier, but at what cost? Respect or mistreatment?


----------



## SecondWind

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Saying you didn't want a Father's Day gift then being upset when you didn't get one is Nice Guy behavior. Your wife is a serial cheater. She is not worth pinning over. 

I haven't read every post, so you may have already answered this: are you going to counseling? You are codependent, my friend. You are addicted to an unhealthy relationship where all you get is pain.

If you don't get help for your codependency you will repeat the same pattern with the next woman.

Codependent No More, by Melanie Beattie is a good place to start learning about it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> My point is, if I had low to no expectations of others, of course we'd all be happier, but at what cost? Respect or mistreatment?


Here's the thing though, she isnt "others". She is your almost EX WIFE, she falls into a category all her own. The only expectation you should have at this point and going forward is for her to continue to be a good mother to your child. Also its easier to not have expectations if you DONT TALK TO HER.


----------



## Andy1001

SunWhiskey said:


> My point is, if I had low to no expectations of others, of course we'd all be happier, but at what cost? Respect or mistreatment?


Buddy you are only paying lip service to the advice people are giving you. 
In my opinion you would take your wife back tomorrow if she asked. 
Now that’s your choice and I’m not going to argue with you but I will tell you three things. 
1. You are depressed. 
2. You’re wife is **** testing you and asking for your truck was a clear sign of this,as was showing you that she was with her new boyfriend on his boat.
3. You are showing your daughter a terrible example of how marriage works. She sees her mother with a different guy every few weeks and all the while her Dad is waiting at the sideline for her to come back to him.


----------



## Affaircare

SunWhiskey said:


> So I helped my very young child get her something for mother's day.
> 
> When she mentioned getting something for me for father's day last week, I told her she didn't have to but it was up to her.
> 
> She didn't. This morning I messaged her and told her I was a little upset by it. Just said it would of been nice to be surprised.
> Now I'm getting the silent treatment. Am I wrong here?


 @SunWhiskey, 

A couple of things:

1) You may have had a tidiness pet peeve, and maybe an accountability pet peeve (former military, right?)...but those are not things that "drive a person to adultery." What drives a person to commit adultery is something inside themselves that is broken and too self-focused, and I say that as someone who is a former wayward who worked hard and straightened out my mind! So next time you're thinking that something you did "drove her to it" just stop yourself right there! STOP and remind yourself that is was a flaw in her character that caused her to choose adultery--it was NOT something you did or did not do. 

2) She has fired you from the job of "husband," and she has done that in both word and action. Now, in her head, what she thinks that means is that she loses all the "costs" of being with you, but she gets to keep all the "benefits" of you and keep you as her Plan B. So far, your actions have confirmed her thoughts! So when we tell you to detach, and to end contact, we aren't telling you this to be spiteful or to be mean-spirited. Nope, we are telling you to take those actions so that YOU regain your own self-esteem, and SHE experiences the natural consequences of firing you from the job of "husband" (namely, that not only does she no longer have to endure your tidiness...but she also no longer gains your truck, your babysitting, your finances, etc.). Does this make sense? She made a CHOICE. It is right and reasonable and mature to allow her to experience the benefit AND THE COST of the choice she freely made. The cost of firing you from the job of "husband" means that she no longer gets the good stuff about you. 

Also, note to self: the good stuff about you is not enough to win her back...not because you're "good stuff" is lacking or insufficient, but rather because her thinking is not based on reality and is skewed. Her values and character are such that committing adultery is "okay"--yours just is not. So you can't win her back with your "good stuff." Part of your job right now is to accept the fact that it will never be "the way it was." 

3) Finally point: if you want something for Father's Day--say that. If you honestly don't care, THEN you say what you said "...you don't have to..." What you did here was essentially a test: I'll see how much I mean to her. Well you set her up for it, and then got all butthurt when she showed you by her actions that a) she believed you and b) you don't mean that much. Okay? So don't play these games. Be mature. If you want her to help your child get Father's Day stuff...then say that. It's reasonable. "Hey, I made the effort to teach our child that it's courteous to honor you on Mother's Day, and I'd appreciate if you would do the same for me for Father's Day. Please make the effort to teach this to our child." Also, bear in mind that it is her job TO TEACH THE CHILD to honor you, not for HER to honor you. She has been exceedingly consistent and clear: she DOES NOT honor you. Time to accept that--mourn it--and move on. 

Next duty station, soldier.


----------



## SunWhiskey

SecondWind said:


> Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Saying you didn't want a Father's Day gift then being upset when you didn't get one is Nice Guy behavior. Your wife is a serial cheater. She is not worth pinning over.
> 
> I haven't read every post, so you may have already answered this: are you going to counseling? You are codependent, my friend. You are addicted to an unhealthy relationship where all you get is pain.
> 
> If you don't get help for your codependency you will repeat the same pattern with the next woman.
> 
> Codependent No More, by Melanie Beattie is a good place to start learning about it.




All people are codependent to some extent in their relationship. I'm not where I was. Only time and practice will help. It has so far.

No, I'm not going to counseling. I'm not going to go because I don't want to. I'll figure it out on my own if it needs figured out, while seeking the input of others here, or books as you mentioned.

Some are useless (red pill junk, such as The Rational Male), while others have been more insightful.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> Here's the thing though, she isnt "others". She is your almost EX WIFE, she falls into a category all her own. The only expectation you should have at this point and going forward is for her to continue to be a good mother to your child. Also its easier to not have expectations if you DONT TALK TO HER.


That's what I've realized today. 

Don't have many others to talk to. Yes I have friends and family, but none that I mesh with as well as my almost EX WIFE. Politically, socially, day to day views. So any time we do talk, the conversation is generally good conversation (not about our relationship, etc.). In periods where I've not spoke with her trying to do "no contact", I've missed that connection. I certainly didn't feel any better about the situation.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Andy1001 said:


> Buddy you are only paying lip service to the advice people are giving you.
> In my opinion you would take your wife back tomorrow if she asked.
> Now that’s your choice and I’m not going to argue with you but I will tell you three things.
> 1. You are depressed.
> 2. You’re wife is **** testing you and asking for your truck was a clear sign of this,as was showing you that she was with her new boyfriend on his boat.
> 3. You are showing your daughter a terrible example of how marriage works. She sees her mother with a different guy every few weeks and all the while her Dad is waiting at the sideline for her to come back to him.



I'm not trying to only pay lip service. I don't think I could take her back. How could I ever trust her again?

1. Yeah, sometimes. But this forum gets 100% of the depression, so it seems like a lot more than it really is most days. I've come a long way.

2. That's very red pill. I don't see relationships in this way.

3. I'm not waiting at the sideline. I filed the divorce.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Affaircare said:


> @SunWhiskey,
> 
> A couple of things:
> 
> 1) You may have had a tidiness pet peeve, and maybe an accountability pet peeve (former military, right?)...but those are not things that "drive a person to adultery." What drives a person to commit adultery is something inside themselves that is broken and too self-focused, and I say that as someone who is a former wayward who worked hard and straightened out my mind! So next time you're thinking that something you did "drove her to it" just stop yourself right there! STOP and remind yourself that is was a flaw in her character that caused her to choose adultery--it was NOT something you did or did not do.
> 
> 2) She has fired you from the job of "husband," and she has done that in both word and action. Now, in her head, what she thinks that means is that she loses all the "costs" of being with you, but she gets to keep all the "benefits" of you and keep you as her Plan B. So far, your actions have confirmed her thoughts! So when we tell you to detach, and to end contact, we aren't telling you this to be spiteful or to be mean-spirited. Nope, we are telling you to take those actions so that YOU regain your own self-esteem, and SHE experiences the natural consequences of firing you from the job of "husband" (namely, that not only does she no longer have to endure your tidiness...but she also no longer gains your truck, your babysitting, your finances, etc.). Does this make sense? She made a CHOICE. It is right and reasonable and mature to allow her to experience the benefit AND THE COST of the choice she freely made. The cost of firing you from the job of "husband" means that she no longer gets the good stuff about you.
> 
> Also, note to self: the good stuff about you is not enough to win her back...not because you're "good stuff" is lacking or insufficient, but rather because her thinking is not based on reality and is skewed. Her values and character are such that committing adultery is "okay"--yours just is not. So you can't win her back with your "good stuff." Part of your job right now is to accept the fact that it will never be "the way it was."
> 
> 3) Finally point: if you want something for Father's Day--say that. If you honestly don't care, THEN you say what you said "...you don't have to..." What you did here was essentially a test: I'll see how much I mean to her. Well you set her up for it, and then got all butthurt when she showed you by her actions that a) she believed you and b) you don't mean that much. Okay? So don't play these games. Be mature. If you want her to help your child get Father's Day stuff...then say that. It's reasonable. "Hey, I made the effort to teach our child that it's courteous to honor you on Mother's Day, and I'd appreciate if you would do the same for me for Father's Day. Please make the effort to teach this to our child." Also, bear in mind that it is her job TO TEACH THE CHILD to honor you, not for HER to honor you. She has been exceedingly consistent and clear: she DOES NOT honor you. Time to accept that--mourn it--and move on.
> 
> Next duty station, soldier.


1) Thanks, that's good to hear. Yes, former military.

2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.

3) Yes, my mistake. I was wrong in my approach. I truly wasn't attempting to play any games.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> 2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.


Your daughter and your truck are not even close to the same thing. The truck is your personal belonging, to which she no longer gets the privilege of access. 

If you want the ex to cooperate about time with your daughter, then you need to be willing to reciprocate that. I never had one single issue with my daughter spending time with her dad's family even during the time she was supposed to be with me. I didnt want her to ever miss out on anything with family. And if her dad needed to change up a day or a weekend here or there, I was always open for that, mainly because I would need the same favor returned now and then. Co-parenting is a whole different beast than you being her whipping boy.


----------



## Affaircare

SunWhiskey said:


> 2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.


This is a good example of what's called "stinkin' thinkin' " and that means that the way you're thinking about this isn't utterly healthy for you. Here's what I mean: You are thinking of it like you have to BUY or PAY FOR access to your own child. Maybe you think in this manner on your own...maybe she (STBX) taught you that in order to get something you had to pay a price first. Either way, now that you are going to no longer be with STBX, this is a very good time for you to work on your thought patterns and get them into healthy self-worth. 

For instance, if you say 'no' to letting her use whatever she wants of yours whenever she wants it--and you are punished by withholding access to your child--that is actually abusive, punative, and verging on alienation in my opinion. She fired you from the role of "husband" so access to all of YOU and YOUR STUFF is now no longer hers to demand. 

Here's a quick trick for figuring this out: get to a point where you think of her as the bank teller or the grocery store clerk. You see them regularly, they are women "in your life"... but you would never EVER think that if you didn't loan the bank teller your truck, she would do something to punish you. She probably wouldn't ask, and if she did, you'd be surprised and be able to say 'no' easily! The trick is to start viewing and treating your STBX as if she was the teller at the bank. Sure, you're polite. Sure, you're courteous. But you don't snoop on the bank teller's FB page or feel sad because the teller didn't get you Father's Day stuff... she's just some lady! 

So when your STBX asks or wants or "NEEDS" or demands something from you, just ask yourself, "Would the bank teller ask me for this? Would I say yes? Would I want to say yes or be all conflicted about saying no?" See how that helps make it clear when STBX is using you and when it's a normal request from a decent human being?



> 3) Yes, my mistake. I was wrong in my approach. I truly wasn't attempting to play any games.


Okay cool. Now you know better. Nothing wrong with a mistake--just learn from it and do better next time. I personally like to phrase it like a request: "Well...could I make a request? I actually would like some acknowledgment for Father's day so would you be willing to help our daughter do that?" STBX could always answer 'no' in which case you ask your mom or a buddy to help your daughter.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> Your daughter and your truck are not even close to the same thing. The truck is your personal belonging, to which she no longer gets the privilege of access.
> 
> If you want the ex to cooperate about time with your daughter, then you need to be willing to reciprocate that. I never had one single issue with my daughter spending time with her dad's family even during the time she was supposed to be with me. I didnt want her to ever miss out on anything with family. And if her dad needed to change up a day or a weekend here or there, I was always open for that, mainly because I would need the same favor returned now and then. Co-parenting is a whole different beast than you being her whipping boy.


I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Affaircare said:


> So when your STBX asks or wants or "NEEDS" or demands something from you, just ask yourself, "Would the bank teller ask me for this? Would I say yes? Would I want to say yes or be all conflicted about saying no?" See how that helps make it clear when STBX is using you and when it's a normal request from a decent human being?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay cool. Now you know better. Nothing wrong with a mistake--just learn from it and do better next time. I personally like to phrase it like a request: "Well...could I make a request? I actually would like some acknowledgment for Father's day so would you be willing to help our daughter do that?" STBX could always answer 'no' in which case you ask your mom or a buddy to help your daughter.


I know I know. I'm wrong for caring but I do.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

SunWhiskey said:


> I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.


I give up.


----------



## SunWhiskey

3Xnocharm said:


> I give up.


Ok?


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> Having no expectations of anyone seems like I am shafting myself of how I'm expecting to be treated.
> 
> Knowing what you do and don't deserve is usually addressed as a good thing on these forums? If there were no expectations, this place wouldn't exist.


Why do you have to 'deserve' treatment from anyone? Seems like you place too much emphasis on what people do for you, think about you, or say about you.

I have something that will help. Read this book, then report back at what you learned: No More Mr Nice Guy.


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> That's what I've realized today.
> 
> Don't have many others to talk to. Yes I have friends and family, but none that I mesh with as well as my almost EX WIFE. Politically, socially, day to day views. So any time we do talk, the conversation is generally good conversation (not about our relationship, etc.). In periods where I've not spoke with her trying to do "no contact", I've missed that connection. I certainly didn't feel any better about the situation.


But you are not in control here. SHE gets to decide if she still talks to you. And once she starts pulling back - and she will as she will need you less and less as her Plan B - you are going to go all clingy and obsessive in your attempt to pull her back in. Which will make you even MORE unattractive to her.

If you can see yourself being a friend to her for the rest of your life, fine. Go for that. But you have to be willing to ditch the "I want her back" part.


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.


Do you see the issue now?


----------



## Absurdist

SunWhiskey said:


> Ok?


What you fail to grasp is that @3Xnocharm, @Affaircare and @tunera are three women trying to help you. All you seem to do is argue with them with a dose of snark on the side.

Sun Whiskey I’m not a counselor. I’m a stinking lawyer but a lawyer whose office has been a open door for guys just like you.

You seem to be a very sharp guy with many different skills and talents but you are a complete neophyte in dealing with your STBXW. The way you are engaging her will always lead to manipulation on her part and you being a doormat. Don’t be that guy. The only thing you owe her is civility. She has fired you from your job as husband. You have no obligation to her. You do not need her to make you happy. Only you can make you happy.

Read the short book @tunera linked for you. Then read Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. 

You can do this. You have the ability to say no to your STBXW. I would be willing to wager that she may whine and fuss but she will ultimately come to respect the power of No.


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.


Nor do I. I loan possessions to people I don't have deep emotional attachments or lifetime commitments to. 

It seems to be a common opinion here and elsewhere that your ex needs to be an enemy, I don't agree. I'm happy to be on amicable terms w/ my ex and I know a lot of people for whom this works. We had a multi-tiered relationship, and the top tier didn't work so we discontinued it. 

But when you find yourself fantasizing you'll go back to some deep emotional attachment, you need to reality check yourself. Personally, the Mother's Day/Father's Day stuff seems like going too far down the attachment trail to me, but you will have to decide for yourself when you're just being acquaintances and when you're setting yourself up for heartache. If you get it wrong, it isn't us who will suffer.


----------



## turnera

Norman, he is trying to create a stable relationship with his STBX, whatever relationship that may end up being. As such, he needs to (1) come to terms with the fact that she is not choosing him and (2) come to terms with what that relationship will look like. By remaining her Plan B - i.e. making her desertion an easy one - he gives her no reason to come home, he gives her no opportunity to have consequences that will cause her to stop and think about what she's doing, and he sets a precedent about what life after divorce will look like. And if this is any indication, she'll throw him just enough of a bone that he doesn't give up and he'll spend the next 10 years of his life hanging on, hanging around, and wishing and hoping he gets another chance. He needs to MENTALLY break apart from her - no matter if they get back together or not - so that he approaches such things as loaning a truck from a position of power. Once he is able to not get pulled back in, sure, go ahead and see if you want to help her out. But right now? When she's flaunting her 'men' all over the place and in his face? No, she hasn't earned that right. And he needs distance from her to reach this mental place.

We're not saying she is the enemy. We're saying she is NOT his problem anymore because of HER choices and HER actions. So he needs to respond appropriately.


----------



## SunWhiskey

I've made massive improvements from where I was to where I am emotionally. Because of that, I really don't think I need to cut off all levels of relationship from her to continue moving forward, but I could be wrong. I certainly haven't been divorced before.

From where I was 3 months or so ago (unable to sleep, eat, etc) to where I am now (normal most days), makes me think time is the only real answer. At this rate, I don't see how I could be pining for her in 10 years. I really don't think I'm in plan B territory. Our intimate relationship is over. I'm definitely at terms with that fact. I don't want to put myself through a pain like that ever again if I can help it, and I know she caused it.


Just pondering...but on a similar but opposite example, when my dad divorced my mom, he cut all contact. It's been 18 years and they have spoken maybe twice. She still pines for him. Being cut off didn't help her get over him. That can't be all there is to the equation.


----------



## SpinyNorman

turnera said:


> Norman, he is trying to create a stable relationship with his STBX, whatever relationship that may end up being. As such, he needs to (1) come to terms with the fact that she is not choosing him and (2) come to terms with what that relationship will look like. By remaining her Plan B - i.e. making her desertion an easy one -


What does giving someone an easy exit have to do w/ being Plan B? I think we all agree he is better off w/o her, if so, let her go. IMO he should let her go, and should not be her backup plan.


> he gives her no reason to come home, he gives her no opportunity to have consequences that will cause her to stop and think about what she's doing,


None of that matters any more. If your car is totalled, don't worry about changing the oil.


> and he sets a precedent about what life after divorce will look like. And if this is any indication, she'll throw him just enough of a bone that he doesn't give up and he'll spend the next 10 years of his life hanging on, hanging around, and wishing and hoping he gets another chance. He needs to MENTALLY break apart from her - no matter if they get back together or not -


I agree he should come to terms w/ the fact that the romance is over. Some people can do that w/o cutting off all contact, some can't. Some of the stuff he says makes me suspect he hasn't really accepted that yet. That is what is important IMO.


> so that he
> approaches such things as loaning a truck from a position of power. Once he is able to not get pulled back in, sure, go ahead and see if you want to help her out. But right now? When she's flaunting her 'men' all over the place and in his face? No, she hasn't earned that right. And he needs distance from her to reach this mental place.
> 
> We're not saying she is the enemy. We're saying she is NOT his problem anymore because of HER choices and HER actions. So he needs to respond appropriately.


She will never have the right to borrow his truck, he will do it as a favor or not at all. If he is over the romance, he won't care who she sleeps with. And power will be a moot point.


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> I've made massive improvements from where I was to where I am emotionally. Because of that, I really don't think I need to cut off all levels of relationship from her to continue moving forward, but I could be wrong. I certainly haven't been divorced before.
> 
> From where I was 3 months or so ago (unable to sleep, eat, etc) to where I am now (normal most days), makes me think time is the only real answer. At this rate, I don't see how I could be pining for her in 10 years. I really don't think I'm in plan B territory. Our intimate relationship is over. I'm definitely at terms with that fact. I don't want to put myself through a pain like that ever again if I can help it, and I know she caused it.
> 
> 
> Just pondering...but on a similar but opposite example, when my dad divorced my mom, he cut all contact. It's been 18 years and they have spoken maybe twice. She still pines for him. Being cut off didn't help her get over him. That can't be all there is to the equation.


I'm glad you're feeling better. I found divorce to be very stressful, and mine didn't have a lot of the fireworks yours did. 

I don't think you should ever have any romance w/ her again, she has shown herself to be very bad in that department. Fooled you once, shame on her.

Different things work for different people when it comes to post divorce relationships. Some people really can't move on w/o cutting off like your parents did. Others can, and do. 

Most of us are happy to talk to you about this, but posting stuff is a lot less direct than an hour of back-and-forth w/ a counselor. You might want to consider that.


----------



## turnera

SpinyNorman said:


> IMO he should let her go, and should not be her backup plan.


Then we're agreed. NON-backup plans don't lend their trucks out.


----------



## Ric

It's good that you have a dream or a goal. When I started my business I bought used equipment for 25% the cost of new. You can always look into renting equipment as needed. 

Keep working towards your dreams and goals.


----------



## SpinyNorman

turnera said:


> Then we're agreed. NON-backup plans don't lend their trucks out.


I don't see why not. I lend my truck to people I know I will never have a romantic involvement with.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> Then we're agreed. NON-backup plans don't lend their trucks out.


I lent my truck to a buddy a couple months ago, and my dad 2 days ago. I don't want to sleep with them.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Ric said:


> It's good that you have a dream or a goal. When I started my business I bought used equipment for 25% the cost of new. You can always look into renting equipment as needed.
> 
> Keep working towards your dreams and goals.


Thanks.


----------



## Andy1001

SunWhiskey said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then we're agreed. NON-backup plans don't lend their trucks out.
> 
> 
> 
> I lent my truck to a buddy a couple months ago, and my dad 2 days ago. I don't want to sleep with them.
Click to expand...

People are doing their best to help you with heartfelt advice. 
Smartass answers to posters who are advising you to actually do something about your behavior while thanking the ones who are cheering you on isn’t helping. 
I can tell you that you are doing great and are an awesome example of how a man who’s wife is cheating on him should behave. 
But it would be lies. Ya know?


----------



## SunWhiskey

You are right. I should be nicer to those trying to help me. I'm sorry turnera. Guess I was feeling a little stressed this morning. (work/ not relationship)


My new response:

"I'm not a backup plan if I choose not to be, whether or not I lend out my truck. Getting back together is not an option, therefore there is no plan."


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> I lent my truck to a buddy a couple months ago, and my dad 2 days ago. I don't want to sleep with them.


But you DO want to sleep with your wife, whether you think you do or not, so any loaning is just another road back in to the mire.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Got stood up on a date this weekend. Unsure why. Then my friend canceled our kayaking trip plans the next day. Kind of a bum weekend. Drank and slept a lot. Did household chores the rest of the time.


----------



## turnera

Got any hobbies?


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> Got any hobbies?


Tinkering in the garage and fabricating stuff count? 

This weekend to kill some time after being stood up, I built a lightweight motor setup for my kayak and fabricated up a system to raise, lower, and steer it. Then I did some testing. Have few kinks to work out. Thought I might put some kits together and see if I can sell them if it works out as planned. Doesn't appear to be anything commercially available that isn't very expensive. My motor weighs in at about 1 lb and pushed me around fine. 

For comparison, the lightest trolling motor available weighs in at about 18 lbs and consumes a lot of battery, also very heavy. If I figured this out right, a power wheels battery weighing in at only 15 lbs and my complete mounting kit at about 4 lbs max, should run for a few hours at 3.5 to 4 mph...vs the 18 lb trolling motor and a battery weight 50+ lbs (70 lbs combined) only running for 2 to 3 hours. 
Will update if anyone is interested.


Sometimes I'll ride my motorcycle. Didn't feel like it. Kind of tired of going to car shows with my car as well.


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> Tinkering in the garage and fabricating stuff count?


How walkable is your nbhd? I love walking, and few hobbies are easier/cheaper/better for you. Exercise is good for your mood at a time like this.

Could also get you in shape for your next hike.


----------



## SunWhiskey

SpinyNorman said:


> SunWhiskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinkering in the garage and fabricating stuff count?
> 
> 
> 
> How walkable is your nbhd? I love walking, and few hobbies are easier/cheaper/better for you. Exercise is good for your mood at a time like this.
> 
> Could also get you in shape for your next hike.
Click to expand...

Not too big on walking myself. I'd rather lift.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Mad at ex again. She blew off her phone call with kiddo last night and left my message on read asking if she was still going to call.

Then I found out the reason is because she's now officially with guy number 3 and stayed the night with him, which made my stomach sink again.


----------



## turnera

Just feel sorry for her. It'll help.

As for hobbies, if you fill your life with things you love to do, having a woman with you is just icing on the cake, ok? Make sure your life is complete and wonderful on its own; that way, you have power over any relationship - it'll be great to have but you won't NEED it. Make sense?

Join some kayaking or motor-building clubs. Try model trains; we use to love building all that stuff. Take some leisure learning classes at your local college. Volunteer to coach a kids' sports team. Volunteer to walk dogs at the local dog shelter. Fill your life.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> Just feel sorry for her. It'll help.
> 
> As for hobbies, if you fill your life with things you love to do, having a woman with you is just icing on the cake, ok? Make sure your life is complete and wonderful on its own; that way, you have power over any relationship - it'll be great to have but you won't NEED it. Make sense?
> 
> Join some kayaking or motor-building clubs. Try model trains; we use to love building all that stuff. Take some leisure learning classes at your local college. Volunteer to coach a kids' sports team. Volunteer to walk dogs at the local dog shelter. Fill your life.



I think my life is pretty full. I'm usually overwhelmed with the stuff I'm doing, but I'm always bummed that I have noone to share it with, which mostly baffles me. I like to consider myself a fairly good looking guy and whatnot, yet I've been blown off and stood up. I've never had this problem before.


----------



## turnera

Please try to remember one thing. Men choose mates based on looks. Women choose mates based on personalities, sense of humor, mental strength (i.e. not a hothead, not angry, not insecure), and sense of place (not concerned about what people think)...things like that. You keep talking about your looks but woman really don't give a damn about your looks if you're no fun to be around.


----------



## SunWhiskey

I'm fun.


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> Mad at ex again. She blew off her phone call with kiddo last night and left my message on read asking if she was still going to call.


If the call was scheduled, you're right to be mad.


> Then I found out the reason is because she's now officially with guy number 3 and stayed the night with him, which made my stomach sink again.


When you post things like this I wonder if you're in the emotional place you need to be.


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> I'm fun.


Examples, please.


----------



## SunWhiskey

SpinyNorman said:


> If the call was scheduled, you're right to be mad.
> 
> When you post things like this I wonder if you're in the emotional place you need to be.


It was scheduled.


Sometimes I'm not. Usually I am. Right now I am.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> Examples, please.


What are you looking for? I do all kinds of outdoor activities, love to attend events and generally be on the go. I'd rather paintball on a first date than dinner and a movie, although that's ok too. The date I was stood up on this weekend was a drive in movie double feature. I had the air mattress in back of the truck, pizza, d rinks, etc. Pretty sure that's fun.


I'm funny most of the time as well, or at least many people tell me I am. Although I do hide my pain with humor a lot. Always have.


----------



## turnera

Ah, the pain. You know women can sense that stuff, right? It puts them on edge; women have to protect themselves and if they sense you aren't self-secure, at peace, happy with the world, they won't be attracted for long. Maybe put more effort into dealing with your pain first before you date.

And by fun, I meant emotionally fun - at ease, not a care in the world, won't get mad at a sloppy waiter, can laugh off embarrassment, is willing to be silly to please you...things like that.

Remember, women think differently than men, have different needs. Looks, physical activity (what guys call fun), those aren't the things that attract women - safety, healthy self esteem, no hidden baggage, no fear of you suddenly going emo or getting angry, ability to laugh at things and at yourself...that's what women look for. And it sounds like you're not there yet.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> Ah, the pain. You know women can sense that stuff, right? It puts them on edge; women have to protect themselves and if they sense you aren't self-secure, at peace, happy with the world, they won't be attracted for long. Maybe put more effort into dealing with your pain first before you date.


This wasn't the cause as they haven't shown up. Can't gain that insight through messaging. I'll do fine on a date or in person once I'm in that position. I've never been bad with women. It seems either the kid or the extra 20 lbs has been a deal breaker. I'm working on the weight. So far so good. 

Beginning to think dating apps suck.




turnera said:


> And by fun, I meant emotionally fun - at ease, not a care in the world, won't get mad at a sloppy waiter, can laugh off embarrassment, is willing to be silly to please you...things like that.


This is just common decency. 





turnera said:


> Remember, women think differently than men, have different needs. Looks, physical activity (what guys call fun), those aren't the things that attract women - safety, healthy self esteem, no hidden baggage, no fear of you suddenly going emo or getting angry, ability to laugh at things and at yourself...that's what women look for. And it sounds like you're not there yet.



I've not acted emotional around any dates. I've not had any dates at this point. What I tell you folks on here, isn't what I'd tell someone I'm talking to or how I talk in general. You understand this, no?

It's mostly been online chatting on Tinder and the like, and if you don't have the looks in the first place, they don't swipe right.

I won't date someone from work, not interested. When I have my daughter, which is every other weekend, I'm not going to be out trying to score a date. On the weekends I've been free, I've been out and doing stuff, but there's been no single women to speak of that I would consider dating. 


That limits me a lot to online dating, which appears to be mostly filled with younger 20 somethings just wanting guys to buy their premium snapchat and follow their instagram. What you get left with is fairly unattractive people, 50 guys swarming every woman, etc.

Example: Out of the 3 that have messaged me since yesterday, 1 just got out or prison, the 2nd is on house arrest, and the 3rd has 4 kids ranging from ages 1 to 6. 

Then this weekend, the whole getting stood up thing by what I considered a good candidate. Completely ghosted when the time game. No explanation. I did nothing that should have caused that.

Dating is supposed to be fun, it's mostly been stressful.




I'll wager that once I get back down to a 6 pack, my dating options go up significantly.


----------



## turnera

Why I tell people who want to date to instead join clubs or groups and spend time doing what you love, and meet women THERE. That way you see them in real life, they see you, and you enjoy something together.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Blind date it one hour. What the hell do I talk about? Lol


----------



## Lila

SunWhiskey said:


> Blind date it one hour. What the hell do I talk about? Lol


Talk about the people who set you up. 

Question... How will you know who she is if it's a blind date?


----------



## SunWhiskey

Well, it went good.


----------



## SunWhiskey

It went good, until it didn't.

How graphic can I get in here?


----------



## SunWhiskey

Ok, well.

We went to a restaraunt/ bar type place. Good wings and cheap beer. Ate and talked a bit. The pool table was open and she said she was learning to play, so I got a bunch of quarters. We spent the next 3.5 hours shooting and playing.

Went to the parking lot, gave her a goodbye hug and all that. Didn't feel like scaring her off with a kiss on the first meeting or anything like that.

I got home. She started messaging me, did I make it back safe and all that jazz. Then she said, "Can I come over?"

I knew what was about to go down and agreed. Very attractive, very small redhead. 4' 11" curvy, abs, etc.

She arrived. It was maybe 1 a.m. We kissed and got to ripping off clothes.

This is where things didn't go so great. I'm not a porn star or anything, but was absolutely too big for her. Could not go in more than 3 or 4 inches and even that was very painful for her. I did some magic with my tongue, fingers, etc. and got her off several times. It was still a no go...going slow, using lube, trying several positions.

She went to finish me with a blowjob, which is great with me. But here came issue number 2. Her mouth was too small or she was too un-practiced. I kept getting "teethed" if that is a verb. It was very painful. I went to "finish" myself with my hand and faked it. She didn't want it in her mouth, so this was easy to do as it was dark. I've never faked it before. She had a great time and all, but the sex was truly miserable for me. The worst I've ever had, and I truly mean that. I didn't let her know of course. She's been messaging me constantly since, but I think this may just be a deal breaker.

Thoughts?


----------



## turnera

My first thought is what woman wants to have sex on the first date and actually messages you to let her come over. I think you're better off without her; just tell her that the sex aspect isn't compatible and you don't want to waste her time on something that won't work out.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> My first thought is what woman wants to have sex on the first date and actually messages you to let her come over. I think you're better off without her; just tell her that the sex aspect isn't compatible and you don't want to waste her time on something that won't work out.


I definitely don't see her as someone who has sex a lot. 

Other than that, things went well. We had a good time otherwise. She was intelligent (top of her class), attractive, etc. 

Was thinking maybe with practice, we could stretch it out.


----------



## delupt

I've had worse first dates 

I wouldn't get hung up on the 'sex on first date' issue .... women are typically first date or third date (oddly, rarely second), women react to men sexually and go with their feelings all in. 

So you're into each other but it wont work sexually, even with lube, this seems a deal breaker (I understand the myth of 'stretching with use' is nothing but an urban legend). But it might be fun trying a few times to be sure as you seem to be disappointed ... but a relationship without happy-endings would be pointless.


----------



## SunWhiskey

We are planning to try to "work it out" again this weekend. I brought up the teeth thing as well. Here's hoping. Lol. I'm not ready for a steady relationship yet anyway. Just having fun. She knows this as well.


----------



## Decorum

delupt said:


> a relationship without happy-endings would be pointless.


My new favorite quote, lol, I my put this in my signature.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Went out, had a pretty good 4 day weekend. Very little contact. Learned to wake surf. Dove off a 60 foot cliff, etc.

But here it is Monday morning and I freaking miss her. Why does this keep happening?


----------



## turnera

Because you're placing too much emphasis on a woman giving you happiness. You need to be happy and fulfilled just being yourself so that a woman is just icing on the cake.


----------



## SunWhiskey

I've changed my actions. I can't control my thoughts.


----------



## SunWhiskey

A person simply can't be happy all of the time. If they can, I don't know how. I was happy all weekend. Didn't even think about it. But today it feels like a giant piece of me is missing. It's crushing.


----------



## StillSearching

SunWhiskey said:


> A person simply can't be happy all of the time. If they can, I don't know how. I was happy all weekend. Didn't even think about it. But today it feels like a giant piece of me is missing. It's crushing.


Read "12 Rules for Life" or listen to the audio book...It will help you get on the right track. 
Happiness should never be your goal. It should be meaning. Meaning brings happiness. 
Happiness is always a byproduct of meaning. 

Although...I do agree, a relationship without orgasm would be pointless to me too, unless she want's to be my sister.


----------



## SunWhiskey

StillSearching said:


> Read "12 Rules for Life" or listen to the audio book...It will help you get on the right track.
> Happiness should never be your goal. It should be meaning. Meaning brings happiness.
> Happiness is always a byproduct of meaning.
> 
> Although...I do agree, a relationship without orgasm would be pointless to me too, unless she want's to be my sister.



I hung out with that one girl again this weekend. Decided she's not a good fit in more than one way. I became ill after being on the lake all day, sore throat, headache, etc. She wanted to go home with me again, but I told her I was feeling sick and not interested. She got mad about it and didn't talk to me the rest of that day or the next. I laid around all day yesterday trying to recover. If that made her mad, I'm not interested in anything further.


----------



## turnera

SunWhiskey said:


> A person simply can't be happy all of the time. If they can, I don't know how. I was happy all weekend. Didn't even think about it. But today it feels like a giant piece of me is missing. It's crushing.


I didn't say by happy all the time. I said to be happy and fulfilled BY YOURSELF. Perhaps a better word is content.

What this means is that you are ok with your life, on your own. You're content with where your life is going. You're fulfilled with your career, your family, your friends. You do stuff you love, you make a difference in the world, maybe you even volunteer somewhere, the people in your life value you, and you value them.

You can't let having a woman (or sex) be the arbiter of whether your life is a success. It needs to be the extra on top of what really makes your life worth living. Otherwise, you are placing YOUR happiness in the hands of another person - whom you can't control. Guess what that means? It means you'll spend your whole life twisted into a knot, just like you are right now, wishing and hoping that someone else will give you the magic pill, when all along it was inside of YOU.

A good therapist can help you sort this stuff out.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> I didn't say by happy all the time. I said to be happy and fulfilled BY YOURSELF. Perhaps a better word is content.
> 
> What this means is that you are ok with your life, on your own. You're content with where your life is going. You're fulfilled with your career, your family, your friends. You do stuff you love, you make a difference in the world, maybe you even volunteer somewhere, the people in your life value you, and you value them.
> 
> You can't let having a woman (or sex) be the arbiter of whether your life is a success. It needs to be the extra on top of what really makes your life worth living. Otherwise, you are placing YOUR happiness in the hands of another person - whom you can't control. Guess what that means? It means you'll spend your whole life twisted into a knot, just like you are right now, wishing and hoping that someone else will give you the magic pill, when all along it was inside of YOU.
> 
> A good therapist can help you sort this stuff out.


I'm working on my career change. It takes time. I'm not relying on anyone else for my happiness. Why is it not ok to want that too or to sometimes miss the connection I had with someone?

Sex doesn't determine my success, but I'd be a liar if I said I was content never having any.


Really tired of people telling me I should be over something that I seemingly have little control over when I am working hard at moving on.


----------



## SunWhiskey

StillSearching said:


> SunWhiskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> A person simply can't be happy all of the time. If they can, I don't know how. I was happy all weekend. Didn't even think about it. But today it feels like a giant piece of me is missing. It's crushing.
> 
> 
> 
> Read "12 Rules for Life" or listen to the audio book...It will help you get on the right track.
> Happiness should never be your goal. It should be meaning. Meaning brings happiness.
> Happiness is always a byproduct of meaning.
> 
> Although...I do agree, a relationship without orgasm would be pointless to me too, unless she want's to be my sister.
Click to expand...


I listened to a lot of his discussions on the 12 Rules for life today, which led me to listening to some of his other TED talks.. Most recently, the speach I just listened to stated in summary, "Every man is responsible for the things that happen to him. There is never anyone else to blame." 

Which leads me back to the end of the relationship and cheating was my fault? Is there another way I should take this.


----------



## turnera

Yeah. It's that you're responsible for your half of your relationship. meaning it's up to you to educate yourself on how to keep a marriage healthy and make sure you aren't contributing to its demise. And also it's up to you to call bullsh*t when you see it on your wife's half. In other words, do your part and ensure your spouse is doing hers.

Basically it means educating yourself.


----------



## SpinyNorman

SunWhiskey said:


> the speach I just listened to stated in summary, "Every man is responsible for the things that happen to him. There is never anyone else to blame."


So if any of us were on the jury for the speaker's murder, we would all acquit.


----------



## SunWhiskey

SpinyNorman said:


> SunWhiskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> the speach I just listened to stated in summary, "Every man is responsible for the things that happen to him. There is never anyone else to blame."
> 
> 
> 
> So if any of us were on the jury for the speaker's murder, we would all acquit.
Click to expand...

According to the suggested reading.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Still depressed. It's been a long 4 days. Don't know why I'm back in the slump. 

I do want her back.


----------



## turnera

You barely know her. That's not terribly healthy, you know.


----------



## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> You barely know her. That's not terribly healthy, you know.


I think I know my soon to be ex wife pretty dang well. Or thought I did.


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## turnera

I thought you were talking about your hookup.


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## SunWhiskey

turnera said:


> I thought you were talking about your hookup.


Nah. That doesn't bug me at all.


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