# Confused - Hurt



## bear-man

Hello,

I have been married for close to 14 years, have 2 kids and my wife asked for a separation. I have no friends to talk to. I am hoping to get some advice about how to deal with pain and if there anything I could learn.

Thank you!

Bear


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## SunCMars

If your face is your Avatar' ....female advice will runneth over your cup.
It soon will overflow your pluck'.

Continue please.

Gives us the particulars.

Leave out the minutiae.
Unless it be perky-nant to your 'sit-she-eh-shun'.




The Typist I-


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## SadSamIAm

If there are no major issues in your marriage, then I am guessing she is having an affair. If there are major issues, then you will need to share some information or you won't get much for advice.


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## sokillme

SadSamIAm said:


> If there are no major issues in your marriage, then I am guessing she is having an affair. If there are major issues, then you will need to share some information or you won't get much for advice.


Yep check your phone records.


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## wilson

Do not leave the house. If she wants a separation, make her move out. And the kids stay in the house with you. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the more of a hard ass you are, the better things will work out.


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## Bananapeel

Why don't you have any friends to talk to?


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## bear-man

Hi guys!

Here are the details:

- Married for 13 years, 2 kids and just bought a house together. We did have issues in the past but always got over them. 
- Wife threatened to separate a couple of times. She pretty much says that there is "no deep connection" whatever that means. She blames me for a lot stuff and I always oblige and promise change.
- I grew up in a rocky household. My mom and dad fought/argued every weekend. So in results, I shut down and don't like confrontation with the wife especially in front of the kids.
- In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same. At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation. She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.
- The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us. 
- She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.
- Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes. 
- I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.


I have no idea how to proceed or what to do. Am i over-blowing this whole thing? 

Thank you for your support


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## bear-man

SunCMars said:


> If your face is your Avatar' ....female advice will runneth over your cup.
> It soon will overflow your pluck'.
> 
> Continue please.
> 
> Gives us the particulars.
> 
> Leave out the minutiae.
> Unless it be perky-nant to your 'sit-she-eh-shun'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Typist I-


Changed it. Nothing like the guy in the picture.


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## sunsetmist

Read about the definition of emotional affair, although it sounds like she may be further along than that. Nope, think you are on track--sorry for your pain...


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## 3Xnocharm

Yep, affair, sorry to say. That whole swearing on your kids' lives is word for word from the cheater script. Time to stop groveling and kissing her ass. She goes full no contact with this man and give you full transparency or you file for divorce. 

And for the love of GOD, do NOT live in the same house if you separate! She is a cheater and needs to GO.


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## wilson

bear-man said:


> - Wife threatened to separate a couple of times. She pretty much says that there is "no deep connection" whatever that means. She blames me for a lot stuff and I always oblige and promise change.


You sound like a generally nice guy who tries to make other people happy. Unfortunately, that often means women will not respect you. They will take advantage of you. It's sad, but it happens a lot. You might want to read the book _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ to see if you identify with it and ways to improve.

I hope you realize there are lots of signs in her behavior that signal she is involved in an affair. I worry that the nice guy within you is going to try to win her back, but that is the wrong path. You need to blow up her world and tell her you're not going to put up with her BS anymore. And also, really think about why you'd want to stay with her anyway. Affair or not, she doesn't seem like she's worthy of being your wife.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

bear-man said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Here are the details:
> 
> - Married for 13 years, 2 kids and just bought a house together. We did have issues in the past but always got over them.
> - Wife threatened to separate a couple of times. She pretty much says that there is "no deep connection" whatever that means. She blames me for a lot stuff and I always oblige and promise change.
> - I grew up in a rocky household. My mom and dad fought/argued every weekend. So in results, I shut down and don't like confrontation with the wife especially in front of the kids.
> - In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same. At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation. She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.
> - The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us.
> - She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.
> - Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes.
> - I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.
> 
> 
> I have no idea how to proceed or what to do. Am i over-blowing this whole thing?
> 
> Thank you for your support


Oh he$$ no. Sadly it really sounds like she's having an affair. 

Sorry you're going through this. Bear in mind from info available, you're not causing the problem she's having.

Her guilty conscience is reacting and over reacting to daily life. Be prepared, that will likely continue until something else gives way.

Best to protect yourself. You'll be better positioned to deal with things either way they go.

Don't let her share your house. If one wants to go they should go, and have to deal with the consequences. 

She'll want to act single while having you as a babysitter and her anchor in case something goes wrong.

That's next. Don't doubt it.

This is a hard and sad circumstance, encouragement to you. But it will get better.


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## bear-man

Thank you all for your support.


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## jorgegene

bear-man said:


> Thank you all for your support.


Know that almost all of us have gone through this.

We feel your pain. It's not fun. We know.


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## bear-man

Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?


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## 2ntnuf

For the kids. She loves them. 

Yep, she's cheating. Sorry.


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## jlg07

bear-man said:


> Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?


I think she is trying to make it seem like she is NOT having an affair -- if she all of a sudden cancelled a planned trip for no really good reason, she probably figures it would make you suspicious.

PLEASE make sure to a) get to a lawyer to see what your options are, b) protect your finances, c) do NOT get her pregnant, and d) take care of your kids. YOU need to do what is best for YOU and them, not her.


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## SunCMars

bear-man said:


> Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?


She does not hate you...
She just does not love you anymore.
She wants to let you down.....easy, using this sort of tactic..
She wants others, family members, friends to think she gave it a try.
She, as others have said, is doing it for the children
She likes her cake, you, and she likes the icing, her AP.

Plus, she is giving her AP, or her perspective AP, some time to sort out his life, his affairs.
She is riding his tail feathers, .and keeping yours' at bay, on another level, on a different floor, than hers.

She is not in a hurry.
Find out why?

Is the AP going through a divorce?
Who is he, what is his situation, his status.

You must, you must listen in on their conversations.
Use a VAR, from wherever they communicate.

Record their conversations.
Flip the record over and play it backwards.

The secret truth will spill out.

The truth is not in the pudding, it will derive from the cheating tongues that lap it up.
That speak clandestinely.

Run Silent Run Deep...

Keep quiet while doing your Sneaky Pete best to find out the truth.

Listen, keep your mouth mute, your hurting flute boxed.

Pretend all is OK. 
Else, she will hide her communication more effectively.


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## TAMAT

One possible reason is that she still wants her family, her reputation, the respect of her children and a husband to be there in case she gets sick. It's called cake eating.

Go into stealth mode collect all the data you can to make an air tight case then expose massively suddenly and without warnings or threats.

Don't show your hand or she will go deeper underground or destroy evidence.

Chances are good she already had sex with someone and is now in love, hence she is loyal to the other person and doen't want you to touch her.

Tamat


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## personofinterest

It sounds very much like she is cheating. I would try to get a look at your phone records. See if you can look at her phone while she is sleeping or showering. Look at recent computer searches. Find out who all went on that trip where she came back different.


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## 23cm

Bear, there is a thread here about sleuthing--by Weightlifter, "Standard Evidence Post." https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

(I hope that will get you there. I'm tech impaired.)

If you've had enough, and from what you wrote, you should have had enough, just see a lawyer, separate your finances, and file for divorce. It won't get better. It will get worse.

If you need validation and more evidence, then the path ahead for you has been trod not by a single spy, but by a battalion of men all of whom thought they might be able to "nice" the old lady back. Never works. Absolutely, never works. 

Good luck. 

Oh, DNA the kids.


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## Oldtimer

Definitely research more and as others have already stated the red flags are in place and lines have been drawn. Get your finances in order, lawyer up, (just to get info in case). I wouldn’t have sex with her either. 

If it were me, the trip would be cancelled and I would let her know why...I DONT TRUST YOU!! Now remember that’s me, not you.

Be careful, as not that long ago she wanted another child? As well, I would also try to find out how many of the ten trips a year this possible OM was on with her.

And yes, having been a hunter and trapper, I believe that unless you man up, you should change your name, a bear doesn’t fool around!

Bottom line, it’s your decision on whether or not you want to R or D. Don’t let her put any blame on you for her foibles and don’t make excuses for her either.

Again if it were me, I would tell her, if you want to separate, here’s your freedom as you hand her the Divorce papers. I don’t believe in separation bull**** just so a partner has an excuse to test run another person and use that as an excuse to feel good about it. Saying, “ well we were separated while I had sex with them”.

Again Bman, this is only my opinion.


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## SunCMars

A trip abroad is fun, especially if one does this rarely.

A trip abroad taking your children can be great fun, especially if they are older.

This trip will be on your dime. Likely the last time on your dime.

_She wants to get the last drop out of you, your last tear, your last drop of blood, your last gasp of breath.
No, no, she does not want this! It looks good in print, though!_


She is not 'that' terrible of a person. She is just your average cheater.

While abroad, you will bring your children and some broad that used to be your wife.




Hold your head high, it will soon be yours to enjoy again.





KB-


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## turnera

When a woman cheats, and especially when her husband is weak like you are, there is only ONE way to end the cheating and save the marriage. That will require you to be STRONG and you have a lot to learn in that department. "No, we will not live in the same house while you are cheating on me. No, I will not move out. Therefore, you either end your relationship with this man or you move out. It's your choice. I'll go see the lawyer to get the divorce papers drawn up."

Biologically, psychologically, women DESIRE strong men. They despise weak ones. You have been weak all your marriage so she has no more use for you. But if you have any hope of not ending up giving her EVERYTHING in the divorce (kids, home, savings), you need to step up and start learning what a strong man looks like. Start by reading No More Mr Nice Guy. Today. You can download it. Read that and come back and we'll talk.


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## SunCMars

Bear in mind Bear, she likely is bare in the mind of another man.
When he thinks of her, she is naked.

Bear in mind, the other man, the likely affair partner, wants her barely clothed, he wants her bare flesh, only.

He will not likely want to raise another man's children.

He will not want to see her on a given morning, no makeup, her hair matted, where her needs and cares suddenly matter.

You love 'her'.

He loves the women he occasionally travels with.
The happy, temporarily free, sappy her.

The other man loves her image.
You love the image that was your wife.

That women has re-painted herself. 
From a traveling married lady that enjoys going abroad into a broad that travels with a light heart and no conscience in her purse, nor from her pursed freely shared lips.


God, I hope I am wrong.



[THRD]


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## SunCMars

Don't let us scare you away.

Especially, me.


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## Tatsuhiko

The other man is probably someone she works with and connected with on her work trip. You should definitely put a voice-activated recorder in her car, and/or a keylogger on her computer. Find out everything about the other man. If he's married, inform his wife with no warning to your own wife, and provide concrete evidence. 

There's a possibility that your second child is not yours. Sometimes a cheating wife pretends to have a renewed interest in sex with her husband when she knows she's pregnant. The idea is to fool the husband into bankrolling her lover's child. You can order a DNA paternity testing kit. Depending on how things are between you and your wife, you might want to make sure she sees you performing the test. Sometimes a cheating spouse has to hit rock-bottom by seeing just how low they've stooped. This might wake her up.


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## Yeswecan

bear-man said:


> Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?


Keep up appearances, sir! 

First, the password protected phone...big no in a marriage. Marriage is an open book with not secrets. Includes of course passwords to devices. 

Second, your W wanting to get pregnant after returning from a trip. My guess, your W had been involved with OM(coworker from the looks of it). Quite possible looking to cover a possible pregnancy scare stemming from a PA with COW. 

Third, going to the gym, getting nice clothing and attentive to ones look before heading off to work are red flags!!

Fourth, your W is active in an affair.


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## SunCMars

On wanting a new baby in July?

Couple of possibles:

She wanted to get pregnant as a means to control her urges to cheat. 
Being pregnant would likely keep the other man away. 
She knows her boundaries are weak.

How does she know?
She has succumbed to her desires, likely more than a few times.

Having a baby will take her mind off her vagina, it will keep her mind on the new baby.
Babies do that, they are masters at taking everyone's minds and giving it to themselves.


What happened during the last trip?

She was had, she crossed the bridge to infidelity. 
Likely again. 
Dunno?

I suspect it felt good. 

She is losing weight, hoping to score with higher end, tighter, nicer rear end, owning men.

Bringing you along to the gym is simple.
It is always easier to work out with a partner.

Plus, she will feel less guilty with you along. 
It is all about the guilt.

Lessening it. 

Part of the weight that she will lose is the man in the mirror.
That is you.


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## SunCMars

Yeswecan said:


> Keep up appearances, sir!
> 
> First, the password protected phone...big no in a marriage. Marriage is an open book with not secrets. Includes of course passwords to devices.
> 
> Second, your W wanting to get pregnant after returning from a trip. My guess, your W had been involved with OM(coworker from the looks of it). *Quite possible looking to cover a possible pregnancy scare stemming from a PA with COW. *
> 
> Third, going to the gym, getting nice clothing and attentive to ones look before heading off to work are red flags!!
> 
> Fourth, your W is active in an affair.


On the bolded part. I agree.

If she is pregnant, will she abort?
Watch how she spends the household money.

At what, say three months, will it show??

I suspect if she does [abort] you should see some sickness, missed work or pain, soon. 
Dunno.


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## Adelais

Sorry you are going through this, bear-man.

My responses to you will be inside your quote, but in blue.



bear-man said:


> Hi guys!
> - In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same.
> 
> At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation.
> 
> Very drastic change here, after a business trip. Don't ignore the facts: she was loving you and wanting a child (which means she wants to have intercourse) and then after a business trip away from home she is 100% the opposite.
> 
> She had an affair on the trip, whether an emotional affair or a physical affair. If she were sorry about it, she would be having lots of sex with you in order to assuage her own conscience.
> 
> She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.
> 
> She is not sure if her affair is going to turn into a concrete relationship yet, so she is keeping the door to your marriage slightly open by not divorcing you, and only having an in house separation. When she knows where she stands with her affair partner, she will pull away farther and ask for a divorce, or if he dumps her she will get depressed and reluctantly move back upstairs with you.
> 
> You are what is called "Plan B." If Plan A (her affair partner) doesn't work out, she still has you, Plan B, to fall back on.
> 
> - The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us.
> 
> She is sleeping separately because she feels like she would be cheating on her affair partner if she sleeps with you.
> 
> When my husband was in his affair, he slept on the couch the first night he got home(he was home on days off from work) and wouldn't kiss me or touch me. I had no idea what was going on. Later the first day he admitted what was going on and then it all made sense.
> 
> Right now, you disgust her, and her affair partner turns her on. She is working out because she wants to look good for her affair partner, and hopefully get that relationship on more solid ground.
> 
> - She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.
> 
> BINGO! You saw the smoking gun on her FB page. Don't make the mistake of believing a word she says about not cheating during, before or after the business trip.
> 
> In a marriage, all passwords should be known by both people. Changing a password on a phone so the spouse can't see what one is doing is a classic move of a cheater. If you still aren't convince she is in an affair, don't let on that you think she is and do some more investigating.
> 
> Personally, I think you have enough evidence that she is checked out of the marriage at least, and in an affair at most. Depending on how strong you are, just serve her with D papers with the evidence you have. You don't even need a reason to divorce in most states. Her behaviors have told you loud and clear that she no longer wants to be a wife, or be in a loving relationship with you.
> 
> Are you planning to live sexless and be a househusband to her while she is having sex with someone else? Do you want to mess with your children's heads by having her live in the basement while she has a boyfriend on the side? Draw a line in the sand, and tell her that you are not going to "play" pseudo marriage with her. She must be all in or all out.
> 
> Speak to a lawyer, and learn your rights. Definitely do not move out of the house. Take 1/2 of your joint monies and put it in a separate account that only you can access. Only put enough to manage the household in the joint account. When she decides to go full on with the affair and divorce you, she will take as much of your $ as she can, as well as run up joint credit cards. Take your name off joint credit cards. All bills on joint credit cards will be 1/2 yours in a divorce situation. If you think you need a credit card, get one in only your name.
> 
> - Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, *she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes. *
> - I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.
> 
> She has absolutely no respect for you. Her other man has taken your place. She would not call him late at night and talk for 85 minutes unless they already had something going on. I know this because my husband and his former OW carried on by phone as well. He was out of town for work, and one night, as an excuse to get off the phone with me the said, "It's late, and I'd better get some sleep, because they might call me to work very early." Phone records show that he got a voice mail from her as he was talking with me. He hung up from me immediately after getting the voicemail, and then he called her back and they talked until 3:30 in the morning!! He hardly slept during his affair, he lived on adrenaline.
> 
> Don't tell her what you know, or how you get any of your evidence, because cheaters who are not ready to divorce only get sneakier, and then you won't have access, and you will have to look harder for evidence.
> 
> Just hand her divorce papers and tell her that you know she is cheating and that you will not be in a marriage with a cheater.
> 
> If she decides to stop cheating and wants to come back to the marriage, don't have sex with her until she has had a VD test for sexually transmitted diseases. This is serious, not a game.
> 
> I have no idea how to proceed or what to do*. Am i over-blowing this whole thing? *
> 
> Thank you for your support


No, you are not over-blowing anything. 

Are you church goers? If you are, having a meeting (with your wife present) with a respected/loved elder might help her come out of her fog. She will lie her socks off since her affair is not cemented, because if it were she'd have already asked you for a divorce to marry him. But at least it will be one more mirror shone on her sin to show her that what she is doing is very very wrong.


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## SunCMars

I checked. The average cost for an abortion at a small clinic is around ~500 dollars. 
If your insurance will cover it, or if they determine you can afford it, expect to pay around ~1000 dollars.

If a woman goes to a hospital they cost twice as much. Or, much more.
Very, very few hospitals will perform them. And if they do it will be for complex reasons, not for on-demand reasons.

Look for a charge like this on her checking account or credit/debit card to some health care provider.


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## Adelais

Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child, she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?

Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.


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## BioFury

bear-man said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Here are the details:
> 
> - Married for 13 years, 2 kids and just bought a house together. We did have issues in the past but always got over them.
> - Wife threatened to separate a couple of times. She pretty much says that there is "no deep connection" whatever that means. She blames me for a lot stuff and I always oblige and promise change.
> - I grew up in a rocky household. My mom and dad fought/argued every weekend. So in results, I shut down and don't like confrontation with the wife especially in front of the kids.
> - In July, she totally changed and suddenly wanted to have another child. She was attentive, nice and treated me great - and I did the same. At the end of July, she goes on a work trip (she travels 10 times year). She came back as a totally different person. Won't let me hug, tough her or anything. 2 weeks later, she asks for a separation. She asked that we both stay at home with kids to no hurt them. She asked me to finish the basement so she can have a bedroom there. We even went to our old counselor because she wanted to know how to break down the separation to the kids and stuff. I was like ok with all of it because deep inside, I was like I am going to give her her space and try my hardest to win her back.
> - The last 2 weeks. we slept separately. she started going to the gym and keeps saying that she wants to lose weight. She even asks me to go with her and started this meal subscription service for both of us.
> - She changed the password on her phone and I pretty much is not allowed to see it. This past Friday, I glanced and saw a Facebook message from this guy. I did some research and saw that they spoke a few times since May. I also found out that this guy also was on this trip with her. I confronted her. She said it was guy from work and swore on our "kids life" that she never cheated on me.
> - Saturday: We had issues with our checking account while away on a soccer tournament with my son. We gave a check to a contractor and asked him to no cash it unit some money was transferred. Guess what? he didn't listen. So our account was in a negative. She called and started yelling at me and that I couldn't offer any solutions. After a lot of back an forth an stress, I sent her money to use. She later apologized by text. Then I found out that at around midnight, she called this same guy and talked for 85 minutes.
> - I was so mad yesterday that I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what's wrong and why am I giving her the cold shoulder.
> 
> 
> I have no idea how to proceed or what to do. Am i over-blowing this whole thing?
> 
> Thank you for your support


I'd recommend researching the legality of putting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under the seat of your wife's car. If it's legal in your state, then buy and install one. Wait a week or two, and then see what she's been up to. If she is having an affair, then there will likely be clear evidence of it in her phone calls. Putting a GPS tracer in her car would also be a good idea, so you can compare her account of her day to her actual movements. Her push to lose weight, coupled with her desire to separate, is a sign that she's trying to increase her attractiveness, and marketability. Otherwise said, she's preparing herself for a divorce, and dating other men.

If you want to save your marriage, I'd recommend you purchase and read "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters", both by Dr. Harley, immediately. That way you can start meeting your wife's emotional needs in any way possible, and hopefully revive her feelings for you.


----------



## turnera

Araucaria said:


> Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child, she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?
> 
> Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.


This is exactly what happened. She had to hurry up and have sex with you so you couldn't tell that it had been conceived by a different person.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Araucaria said:


> Do you think that there is a possibility that when she told you she wanted a child,* she might have already been in her affair, and thought she was pregnant with the OM's child*, and they weren't committed enough for her to divorce you and marry him so she wanted you to think it was yours?
> 
> Then she found out she was not pregnant, so she didn't need you any more.


"Zactly" what I thought when I read that.


----------



## 2ntnuf

turnera said:


> This is exactly what happened. She had to hurry up and have sex with you so you couldn't tell that it had been conceived by a different person.


Yes, that's what I thought, too.


----------



## Marc878

Check your phone bill online. It does sound suspicious of her pregnancy. It's happened here more than once.

Voice activated recorder in her car. Chances are her other man is married.

Mouth shut eyes and ears open.

Better man up quick. They are ahead of you now.

Sorry you are here and for what you are about to go through.


----------



## Marc878

Cheaters lie a lot and that is all you're gonna get without proof.

Start digging


----------



## Beach123

She's definitely cheating. The baby talk was only in case she gets pregnant by him. 

Imagine that - she planned to pin a pregnancy with her OM on you!

Stop being so nice - get mad!!!

Cancel the contractor and get you money back asap! Put it in an acct in your name only!

Move money into your name only!

Any assets you can think of that she may swipe - guard them by putting them in your name only. Any possessions you love? Rent a storage space and put themthere.

Close all joint credit cards. Print out the current balances that show the date and amount so she can't spend and expect you to pay half!

Start protecting yourself now! If you do t - she will take everything she can!


See an attorney and have papers drawn up - you need to be ready - three steps ahead of her instead of ten behind.

Don't trust a word she says - she's ruined your life and your kids lives by lying and being selfish.

Find out who the OM is - if he's married inform his wife without letting your wife know ahead of time.

Blow her world up! If she's scared - she may change.

If she's not scared - she will continue he to treat you WAY worse than her recent outburst!

I mention again - stop being so nice!


----------



## SunCMars

Come back, the torrent of hard advice has run its course.

You have heard all the negatives, come back for the positives.
They arrive after a 'spell'.

When the bad luck spell....done wears out.

If you choose not to return, we will suspect:

You were not being honest with us.
You are sweeping all this under the rug and hoping for the best.
You are broken and despaired. 

This too, will pass.


Note: We are a patient lot. But patience is a gift, not a mandate for anyone.


----------



## aine

bear-man said:


> Another question. We do have a trip abroad scheduled with the kids. She surprisingly still wants to go together. I really don't understand why?


She wants to go because she wants to have her cake and eat it, cheater script through and through.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I think we scared him off....


----------



## SunCMars

Off topic, worth mentioning:

I noted something I note all the time.

At the very second that @turnera liked my post here, I mentioned her in another post.

Synchronicity at its most obvious.

We are never alone.
Some greater power is pulling strings that sometimes we see, sometimes we feel.

I feel them every living minute.

Just Sayin'





[THRD]


----------



## SunCMars

3Xnocharm said:


> I think we scared him off....


He needs to come back and tell us off.

Tell us something.
........................................................................................................

By the way......

Likely, this is likely why Bear is in the backwoods in his marriage.

He cannot face the truth, the blaring music.
He needs to fight back.

Not against us 'Ghosts in the TAM Machine', rather against the injustices in his, for real, *Moody Blues* life.

If we have been proven right, tell us.
If we have been proven wrong, say so.

We can handle the truth.....well, most of us! :|


Hello?
Are you there?


----------



## SunCMars

It is a slow day in Cheaterville...


Aye!




King Brian-


----------



## Beach123

3Xnocharm said:


> I think we scared him off....


OP likely decided to continue with the marriage... doesn't want to tell us.


----------



## Dawghoused

You did not mention the reason why she wants to be separated. If there is an issue that is the cause of the fight regularly then you should work on it and short out. If there is no such issue then she may have an affair and want to be with that guy. So talk to your wife and ask her separation will also affect the future of your kids also.


----------



## bear-man

Hey guys!

I am back. And you guys helped me open my eyes a bit. I am going to lay it down and you guys tell me. Ok?

We got married in the mid 2000s. She was pregnant with our 1st kid (unplanned). She married me against the wishes of her family because I come from another background. We pretty much went to the local court and got married there with only her friend as a witness. We were young and she says that I hurt her so much on the nights she was pregnant and was up playing games or tv and ignoring her. She says that I shut her down and didn't let he be herself (I did things like telling her to keep quiet when she around my friends, family and stuff like that). Basically, I was a controlling person and she thought that I have never accepted her for who she is. We both come from F-ed up childhoods.

Back in 2008, she approached one night and told me that she needed me and wanted me to be closer to her and have a relationship. She wanted to leave. We ended working things up and I went back to the ignoring and same old things that upset her. I don't want to sound like a victim but I agree with the things she pointed at - My mom actually saw that too and said many time that I acted like my dad (RIP) who wasn't the best husband and that I should take care of my wife.

5-7 years later, She came to me again and this time said she is going to leave for good. She said that we just don't belong together as a couple because I never want to spend time with her and the ignoring also was part of it. I promised to change my ways but again went back to having my face on my PC, phone and TV. I was always pre-occupied with something.

We stayed together and I kept making progress. We also went to counseling for a few months and it did help/

Back in July/August, she told me that she wants to have a baby and that we should try. We did and our relationship was getting better. I felt comfortable with things and started to not pay attention to stuff again. Having my face on the phone while having dinner, hanging out with friends, family and cut myself out out of socializing. Out of nowhere, after her trip (2-weeks after), she asked for separation.

To be honest, I saw it coming somehow. So instead of begging her and said ok let's separate. She said that she wants to keeps things the same at home with the kids and slowly tell them about what's going on. We still talk and have dinner almost every day. We also went back to the counselor twice again. Yesterday, we actually went out with her family and somehow had fun. She told the counselor that she wants to figure things out for herself and that her 1st goal is that things can work out, 2nd we can just stay in limbo and see what happens and 3rd to split up. 

The guy she was talking too lives 5 states away. She said that there is nothing going on between the 2 of them and that he calls her to ask for professional help with resumes and other stuff. I just don't know what to think of this. She is the type that I would help anyone who asks her for help. But again, this is very odd.

So right now, I am not sure if I should keep going with the plan or what I can do. I am torn and we both don't want to hurt the kids. 

There you have it.


----------



## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I am back. And you guys helped me open my eyes a bit. I am going to lay it down and you guys tell me. Ok?
> 
> We got married in the mid 2000s. She was pregnant with our 1st kid (unplanned). She married me against the wishes of her family because I come from another background. We pretty much went to the local court and got married there with only her friend as a witness. We were young and she says that I hurt her so much on the nights she was pregnant and was up playing games or tv and ignoring her. She says that I shut her down and didn't let he be herself (I did things like telling her to keep quiet when she around my friends, family and stuff like that). Basically, I was a controlling person and she thought that I have never accepted her for who she is. We both come from F-ed up childhoods.
> 
> Back in 2008, she approached one night and told me that she needed me and wanted me to be closer to her and have a relationship. She wanted to leave. We ended working things up and I went back to the ignoring and same old things that upset her. I don't want to sound like a victim but I agree with the things she pointed at - My mom actually saw that too and said many time that I acted like my dad (RIP) who wasn't the best husband and that I should take care of my wife.
> 
> 5-7 years later, She came to me again and this time said she is going to leave for good. She said that we just don't belong together as a couple because I never want to spend time with her and the ignoring also was part of it. I promised to change my ways but again went back to having my face on my PC, phone and TV. I was always pre-occupied with something.
> 
> We stayed together and I kept making progress. We also went to counseling for a few months and it did help/
> 
> Back in July/August, she told me that she wants to have a baby and that we should try. We did and our relationship was getting better. I felt comfortable with things and started to not pay attention to stuff again. Having my face on the phone while having dinner, hanging out with friends, family and cut myself out out of socializing. Out of nowhere, after her trip (2-weeks after), she asked for separation.
> 
> To be honest, I saw it coming somehow. So instead of begging her and said ok let's separate. She said that she wants to keeps things the same at home with the kids and slowly tell them about what's going on. We still talk and have dinner almost every day. We also went back to the counselor twice again. Yesterday, we actually went out with her family and somehow had fun. She told the counselor that she wants to figure things out for herself and that her 1st goal is that things can work out, 2nd we can just stay in limbo and see what happens and 3rd to split up.
> 
> The guy she was talking too lives 5 states away. She said that there is nothing going on between the 2 of them and that he calls her to ask for professional help with resumes and other stuff. I just don't know what to think of this. She is the type that I would help anyone who asks her for help. But again, this is very odd.
> 
> So right now, I am not sure if I should keep going with the plan or what I can do. I am torn and we both don't want to hurt the kids.
> 
> There you have it.


Well, without hearing her side of is, which you kind of gave hers I am sure, you sound like a complete jerk man-child. Not to hurt your feelings. But that is how it strikes me. 

However, dude, she is having and affair, emotional, physical, some other guy you don't know about yet, she is having an affair. 

So the question is 1) Do you care? 2) Do you want to stay married? 3) Are you willing to grow up an be a actual grown man that knows and understands how to treat a woman?

Basically, what do you want to do???


----------



## bear-man

BluesPower said:


> Well, without hearing her side of is, which you kind of gave hers I am sure, you sound like a complete jerk man-child. Not to hurt your feelings. But that is how it strikes me.
> 
> However, dude, she is having and affair, emotional, physical, some other guy you don't know about yet, she is having an affair.
> 
> So the question is 1) Do you care? 2) Do you want to stay married? 3) Are you willing to grow up an be a actual grown man that knows and understands how to treat a woman?
> 
> Basically, what do you want to do???


I am not a jerk. The mistakes I made were when I was in my 20s. I want to stay married of course but not if she is having an affair.


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> I am not a jerk. The mistakes I made were when I was in my 20s. I want to stay married of course but not if she is having an affair.


I'd follow through on what I wrote previously, by installing a VAR under the seat of her car. It will record her phone conversations, and potentially reveal an affair if she is indeed having one. If she rarely goes anywhere, and spends a lot of time at home, you can install a second VAR where she spends the most time in the house.

You should purchase the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" immediately so that you can start treating your wife the way that she craves to be treated.


----------



## bear-man

BioFury said:


> I'd follow through on what I wrote previously, by installing a VAR under the seat of her car. It will record her phone conversations, and potentially reveal an affair if she is indeed having one. If she rarely goes anywhere, and spends a lot of time at home, you can install a second VAR where she spends the most time in the house.
> 
> You should purchase the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" immediately so that you can start treating your wife the way that she craves to be treated.


I did start reading it. Thanks! I will get a VAR. I also have Onstar on her car (just activated it).


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Here is the deal. She is having an affair and if she traveled overnight, very likely it went physical. All of the other signs you mention such as weight loss, going to the gym are strong indications she is actively engaged in an affair. Been there done that brother. You need to get the facts as you don’t know what you don’t know. Read the weightlifter’s thread. Good intel on that thread. Secondly, you are going to have to put the **** that happened to you as a child out of your mind. I know it is hard to do as I had a crappy childhood, too, but it can be done.

DO NOT TRY TO NICE HER BACK. THAT WILL BACKFIRE. Women only respect strength from a man. Show strength not weakness. I cannot stress enough about implementation of the 180 as that lets her know you will be fine without her if you stick to it. You have to fake it until you make it.

Now, if reconciliation is your goal, get the information via any means you can. VAR, review phone bill, follow her when she goes out for an evening, put a GPS on her vehicle. you get the picture. Once you have what you need you go nuclear and blow the affair up. How you probably ask? EXPOSURE! Exposure is like a fire extinguisher to a fire, it kills the affair. Expose to family friends and watch her scramble.
I did this to my FWW and it knocked her to her knees. Especially when our adult children found out. I changed my status on facebook and put out a post that FWW had a boyfriend and I posted his name, too. I was mad as hell and decided I was not going to put up with the crap she was pulling. Now going on three years of R.

Good luck and focus on you. Be the best you can be. And I will leave you with what is instilled in our cranial cavities from Parris Island....Improvise, Adapt, Overcome... Good luck.


----------



## Beach123

So you never acted married to her and she gets sick of it?

Did I get that right?


It looks like divorce would make both of you happier.


Since you always act single - don't get married again. Focus on your kids and making sure they feel loved and safe.


She told you time and again what to do to make the marriage happy - yet you didn't make effort. Just be done with it - it's been over for a long time.


----------



## Adelais

No matter how unhappy she was, she should not have decided to have an affair.

She should have divorced you, then started dating.

You were a jerk for many years. So are many spouses, but their lonely spouse doesn't decide to cheat on them.

It definitely sounds like she is or was having an affair, and that it went physical. You have to decide if you want to even bother trying to fix the marriage, if she want to as well.

It is hard work, I know. Even if she stops seeing the OM, both of you have a long road to hoe if you decide to reconcile.


----------



## turnera

bear-man said:


> I am not a jerk. The mistakes I made were when I was in my 20s. I want to stay married of course but not if she is having an affair.


Dude, you just said that in July and August you went back to not paying attention to her.

That said, she IS in at least an emotional affair. 

The problem is that you're not much of a catch, so you don't have many redeeming qualities for her to have any reason to want to give it up to keep you.

In other words, you're probably screwed.


----------



## bear-man

You guys were right on. I activated Onstar on her car. She had a sudden work trip. So I looked at the app and there she was not where she said she was going to. she drove 8 hours to see this guy. FML 

What should I do? I am angry, sad and vulnerable. I don't want to do something stupid.


----------



## turnera

Go see a lawyer. Today.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

turnera said:


> Go see a lawyer. Today.


You beat me too it!

As someone who hates divorce and pro-reconciliation in most cases, your only course of action right now is to go see a lawyer and understand your rights. And when we say today, we say, do what you can to get that damn appointment set TODAY! 

I'm sorry man, once they are this deep in the fog and when lying becomes 2nd nature, there's no turning back for them. The Divorce filing will either snap them out of it (unlikely) or it won't but it's the only card you have left.


----------



## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> You guys were right on. I activated Onstar on her car. She had a sudden work trip. So I looked at the app and there she was not where she said she was going to. she drove 8 hours to see this guy. FML
> 
> What should I do? I am angry, sad and vulnerable. I don't want to do something stupid.


The first thing you do is take a breath, I know it hurts, lots of us do. 

The next thing that you do is file for divorce today. You don't tell your wife, you don't tell anyone, you file for divorce. 

You don't think about whether you want to save your marriage of even if you can. Now is not that time. 

Next you have the Lawyer have her served at work. There are reasons for this. 

Now, there are several questions that you need to answer for us so we can give you more help. Right now you need to try an listen to what we are telling you and if you do not understand, don't worry. You will understand later. 

How many kids? 

How long have you been married? 

Who makes the most money and round figures how much. 

That is it for starters. 

Take off work, find a lawyer and file for divorce.

DO NOT TALK TO YOUR WIFE ABOUT ANYTHING...

Do you understand?????


----------



## bear-man

BluesPower said:


> The first thing you do is take a breath, I know it hurts, lots of us do.
> 
> The next thing that you do is file for divorce today. You don't tell your wife, you don't tell anyone, you file for divorce.
> 
> You don't think about whether you want to save your marriage of even if you can. Now is not that time.
> 
> Next you have the Lawyer have her served at work. There are reasons for this.
> 
> Now, there are several questions that you need to answer for us so we can give you more help. Right now you need to try an listen to what we are telling you and if you do not understand, don't worry. You will understand later.
> 
> How many kids?
> 
> How long have you been married?
> 
> 
> Who makes the most money and round figures how much.
> 
> 
> That is it for starters.
> 
> Take off work, find a lawyer and file for divorce.
> 
> DO NOT TALK TO YOUR WIFE ABOUT ANYTHING...
> 
> Do you understand?????




2 boys

Married for 13 years 

She does make more money than me: $140k - me $100k

House in under her name though - we did it that way because of my job. I do think I am on the deed

My question is: Should I tell the kids?


----------



## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> 2 boys
> 
> Married for 13 years
> 
> She does make more money than me: $140k - me $100k
> 
> House in under her name though - we did it that way because of my job. I do think I am on the deed
> 
> My question is: Should I tell the kids?


No, tell no one until she is served with papers. All of that will work out. So if you are at work now, you need to take the day off and find a lawyer. 

THAT IS THE FIRST STEP. TELL NO ONE. 

Once you have filed, come back and tell us what the lawyer said. 

You might as well gather all the financial stuff because the Lawyer will want to see it. 

She may get to pay you alimony. 

Keep your cool, act like nothing is wrong. Yes you will tell the kids, in an age appropriate way when it is time. 

DO NOT ACT ANY DIFFERENT ABOUT ANYTHING. 

It is important that you understand that... DO YOU????


----------



## bear-man

BluesPower said:


> No, tell no one until she is served with papers. All of that will work out. So if you are at work now, you need to take the day off and find a lawyer.
> 
> THAT IS THE FIRST STEP. TELL NO ONE.
> 
> Once you have filed, come back and tell us what the lawyer said.
> 
> You might as well gather all the financial stuff because the Lawyer will want to see it.
> 
> She may get to pay you alimony.
> 
> Keep your cool, act like nothing is wrong. Yes you will tell the kids, in an age appropriate way when it is time.
> 
> DO NOT ACT ANY DIFFERENT ABOUT ANYTHING.
> 
> It is important that you understand that... DO YOU????


I do. I was pissed for a couple of hours. Now I am good. My son is 12 yo and I want to tell him because he somehow expressed that her trip was weird.


----------



## ButtPunch

bear-man said:


> I do. I was pissed for a couple of hours. Now I am good. My son is 12 yo and I want to tell him because he somehow expressed that her trip was weird.


For now....just agree with him and tell you think it is weird also


----------



## SentHereForAReason

bear-man said:


> I do. I was pissed for a couple of hours. Now I am good. My son is 12 yo and I want to tell him because he somehow expressed that her trip was weird.


Do NOT tell him! You would be telling him for all of the wrong reasons right now and there are several other reasons you should not tell him (NOW). You talk to your kids after you have your ducks in a row, a solid plan in place, etc. Do not complicate things by telling them right now, in the heat of the moment.

Talk to a lawyer ASAP. Start writing things down for a plan and start executing on them. 

Keep your kids shielded and out of this mess until you are squared away, they are not pawns or to be used as leverage. They will know in due time but it's time for the adults to take care of things.


----------



## jlg07

Also, make sure you grab any screen shots, documentation, etc. you have from the affair itself. You will need this to show folks once you DO expose because SHE will try to turn this on you and re-write your history.


----------



## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> I do. I was pissed for a couple of hours. Now I am good. My son is 12 yo and I want to tell him because he somehow expressed that her trip was weird.


Now is not the time to do that. Just stay the course. 

There will be a time to do that. But not now. 

What I am telling you to do it what you need to do. So find a lawyer and file today if possible...


----------



## Oldtimer

Bear man, I’m glad to see the spirit of the bear coming through. Strength, patience and sniffing out the situation! The good folks here have given you much to work with and an objective to overcome, please take what you will and discard the rest, but always be open to suggestions. 

Yes both of you share in the issues of your marriage, but the cheating is 100% on her. To drive that distance especially taking time away from your family is disrespectful IMO. 

Take care brother bear and be swift in striking after your ducks are in a row, as I said in a previous post, I abhor the bs of someone saying separation rather than I fing someone else and want a divorce. 

God speed


----------



## bear-man

So I accidentaly had an appointment with a counselor today (it's like it was meant to be) with who I was supposed to work on myself. I told her what happened. She said the same thing as some of you have said. To no be confrontational, to be calm and not tell the kids. She also mentioned to text the wife and tell of she is okay because the car is in Kentucky and that if she is we can talk about anyhting when she comes back. She also said that this is on my wife and not me. She made the decision to do whatever she is doing. I scheduled an appointment with a divorce lawyer this coming Tuesday. 

My gut is telling me to not say anything at all and play the game. 

Looking forward to hear what you have to say


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> So I accidentaly had an appointment with a counselor today (it's like it was meant to be) with who I was supposed to work on myself. I told her what happened. She said the same thing as some of you have said. To no be confrontational, to be calm and not tell the kids. She also mentioned to text the wife and tell of she is okay because the car is in Kentucky and that if she is we can talk about anyhting when she comes back. She also said that this is on my wife and not me. She made the decision to do whatever she is doing. I scheduled an appointment with a divorce lawyer this coming Tuesday.
> 
> My gut is telling me to not say anything at all and play the game.
> 
> Looking forward to hear what you have to say


Don't say anything to your wife. Whichever path you choose to take, either divorcing, or reconciling, you will be striking out from a place of strength if you get all your financial information together first, deeds to the house, titles to cars, all of that stuff, and file, without her knowing anything. You're gearing up for a fight, and it's best "the enemy" doesn't know you're coming.

In addition, this will turn into a propaganda war. If you tell your wife, it will allow her to tell a false version of the story to her friends and family, and insulate herself from the blow this will have on her social and professional life. An hour before she is served with papers is when you expose the entire thing to her parents, siblings, best friends, her boss, coworkers, everybody. This gives you control of the narrative. She'll start getting phone calls saying "WTH?!", and then divorce papers will be set on her desk.

ETA: Do all of this (expose & serve her with papers) when she is at work! Preferably when she still has hours left in her shift.


----------



## wilson

bear-man said:


> She also mentioned to text the wife and tell of she is okay because the car is in Kentucky and that if she is we can talk about anyhting when she comes back.


Do not do this. Do not contact your wife about the car. It will give her time to work on her story and start spreading lies. The counsellor recommended this because she thinks she'll repent and you can talk it out, but that rarely works. 

The only thing that truly works is to blow up her world. Have divorce papers written up, proof the the affair, copies of financial documents, setup a new bank account for your paycheck, etc. before she comes back. Then when she gets back, tell her you know what's going on and she has one chance to tell you everything. If she breaks down, tells you everything, and shows true remorse, then maybe you have a chance of working through this. But if she lies, denies, accuses you of snooping, etc., then it's over. Hand her the divorce papers and tell her to get out.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

bear-man said:


> So I accidentaly had an appointment with a counselor today (it's like it was meant to be) with who I was supposed to work on myself. I told her what happened. She said the same thing as some of you have said. To no be confrontational, to be calm and not tell the kids. She also mentioned to text the wife and tell of she is okay because the car is in Kentucky and that if she is we can talk about anyhting when she comes back. She also said that this is on my wife and not me. She made the decision to do whatever she is doing. I scheduled an appointment with a divorce lawyer this coming Tuesday.
> 
> My gut is telling me to not say anything at all and play the game.
> 
> Looking forward to hear what you have to say


Couple of things;

- you don't even have to look at this as playing a game but more about your livelihood and what you are doing to protect it. If it helps to think of as a game to remain calm, then do that but you must be outside of yourself for the next 4 days and really even beyond that to see this through You will be tempted to explode because the emotions are so raw right now.

- Keep seeing the counselor whatever you do, for yourself, that's a big must

- Remember to keep shielding the kids as much as possible for now

- Just try to remain as calm as possible, can you go hang out with friends or family at times this weekend, telling them what's going on will help and they will help you remain grounded and it will also let out steam in the meantime.


----------



## ButtPunch

Do not contact your wife. 

You are getting good advice.

I know it hurts but you must be strong here.


----------



## BluesPower

wilson said:


> Do not do this. Do not contact your wife about the car. It will give her time to work on her story and start spreading lies. The counsellor recommended this because she thinks she'll repent and you can talk it out, but that rarely works.
> 
> The only thing that truly works is to blow up her world. Have divorce papers written up, proof the the affair, copies of financial documents, setup a new bank account for your paycheck, etc. before she comes back. Then when she gets back, tell her you know what's going on and she has one chance to tell you everything. If she breaks down, tells you everything, and shows true remorse, then maybe you have a chance of working through this. But if she lies, denies, accuses you of snooping, etc., then it's over. Hand her the divorce papers and tell her to get out.


Nope Wilson, not a chance. You are missing the order of events... 

You don't tell her ****. You let her come home, and see what she wants to say. You don't tell her anything, except that you know what is going on if she asks. 

THEN you let her tell you whatever she wants to tell. You listen, then tell her to pack her bags and make an 8 hours drive back to her lover and stay there. 

After that, depending on how all of that goes, you might talk to her is a week. 

Now who knows, she already tried the separation crap, so she may just leave, in which case you take her to the cleaners and start a new life...


----------



## BioFury

BluesPower said:


> Nope Wilson, not a chance. You are missing the order of events...
> 
> You don't tell her ****. You let her come home see what she wants to say. You don't tell her anything, except that you know what is going on if she asks.
> 
> THEN you let her tell you whatever she wants to tell. You listen, then tell her to pack her bags and make an 8 hours drive back to her lover and stay there.
> 
> After that, depending on how all of that goes, you might talk to her is a week.
> 
> Now who knows, she already tried the separation crap, so she may just leave, in which case you take her to the cleaners and start a new life...


Respectfully, I wouldn't tell her anything, regardless of whether she asks. If he lets on, then he's lost the element of surprise, and he'll have twice the fight on his hands.

The exposure to her family and friends needs to be completely out of the blue. If she has the opportunity to mitigate the damage, or put defenses in place, it won't have the needed effect.


----------



## BluesPower

BioFury said:


> Respectfully, I wouldn't tell her anything, regardless of whether she asks. If he lets on, then he's lost the element of surprise, and he'll have twice the fight on his hands.
> 
> The exposure to her family and friends needs to be completely out of the blue. If she has the opportunity to mitigate the damage, or put defenses in place, it won't have the needed effect.


Sorry, I am talking about AFTER she gets served divorce papers at work...


----------



## wilson

bear-man said:


> 5-7 years later, She came to me again and this time said she is going to leave for good. She said that we just don't belong together as a couple because I never want to spend time with her and the ignoring also was part of it. I promised to change my ways but again went back to having my face on my PC, phone and TV. I was always pre-occupied with something.


One thing to keep in mind. If you want to reconcile, you will have to make some major changes. You guys do not have a good marriage, I'm sorry to say. This kind of behavior is like poison to the relationship. If you want to stay together, you'll need to completely change your mindset about what it means to be married. In no way is she justified in having an affair, but it's not hard to understand why it happened. If it wasn't an affair, it would have been divorce. Unless you want to keep heading down that path, you'll need to be a better husband.


----------



## Adelais

bear-man, if she comes back to you, you need to read:

His Needs Her Needs

Love Busters (you "busted" her love by ignoring her for so many years)

Hold On To Your NUTS

The Way of the Superior Man

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Also, get individual counseling to figure out why your tendency is to push her away.

**not condoning her cheating. She should have divorced you _*then*_ looked for a man who would be proper company for her rather than jump the gun and get into an affair.


----------



## mmmrandom

Just something to add that springs to mind - while it does make sense about setting up new bank accounts, gathering evidence etc. and getting legal advice. I would avoid blowing this up - i.e. getting stuff delivered to her place of work, putting it all over Facebook etc. the reason I suggest this is there appears to be possible outcomes at this juncture 1. You guys split. 2. You reconcile.

With option 1. she would still be the kids mother and even after all the crap settles, you're going to have to deal with her still. If you can keep it reasonable and amicable that has to better for the both of you and more importantly your kids.

With option 2. well not only do you two have to reconcile, you have to reconcile with the whole world, dirty laundry and all. That sounds like it could cause ongoing issues.

Protect yourself though, the majority of the steps outlined seem practical but maybe just don't go thermonuclear. If she does that then you've already got the evidence and you can share that but there is no point going this way yet.

As for the faults outlined on both sides, I shan't pass any judgement - you're already engaged with professionals who can help you with that. I hope you take steps to protect your mental health too - sounds like a tough situation for anyone to deal with on their own. The internet can't replace actual people so maybe try and make some friends of your own.


----------



## BluesPower

mmmrandom said:


> Just something to add that springs to mind - while it does make sense about setting up new bank accounts, gathering evidence etc. and getting legal advice. I would avoid blowing this up - i.e. getting stuff delivered to her place of work, putting it all over Facebook etc. the reason I suggest this is there appears to be possible outcomes at this juncture 1. You guys split. 2. You reconcile.
> 
> With option 1. she would still be the kids mother and even after all the crap settles, you're going to have to deal with her still. If you can keep it reasonable and amicable that has to better for the both of you and more importantly your kids.
> 
> With option 2. well not only do you two have to reconcile, you have to reconcile with the whole world, dirty laundry and all. That sounds like it could cause ongoing issues.
> 
> Protect yourself though, the majority of the steps outlined seem practical but maybe just don't go thermonuclear. If she does that then you've already got the evidence and you can share that but there is no point going this way yet.
> 
> As for the faults outlined on both sides, I shan't pass any judgement - you're already engaged with professionals who can help you with that. I hope you take steps to protect your mental health too - sounds like a tough situation for anyone to deal with on their own. The internet can't replace actual people so maybe try and make some friends of your own.


Wrong again... 

If he decides that he wants to save his marriage, not saying that he has, the surprise paper serving at work, and the subsequent world wide exposer, may wake up the wife to what she has actually done. If it does not wake her up, it does not matter anyway. 

If she wants to leave, then it is just fun... 

If you ever, ever have a chance to reconcile, which frankly most don't, then hard brutal exposure is the only way to go. 

When someone has to live with the shame of what they have done to their family, it is a consequence that resonates for a long, long time. 

In this case, she was trying to lie to OP, separate with out anyone knowing about her affair, and then be unfettered to pursue her new love affair. If it did not work out, then she could go back to plan B, and wait for the next affair, and possible new partner. 

At this point OP does not even know if her affair partner (AP) is married or not. Probably is, hence the secrecy. 

Now if he is, exposing to HIS wife, will make her life even harder to deal with. 

Like I said, she wakes up, or he gets to have a lots of fun watching her gyrations trying to explain to everyone at work and her friends that she is a cheating POS...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

wilson said:


> One thing to keep in mind. If you want to reconcile, you will have to make some major changes. You guys do not have a good marriage, I'm sorry to say. This kind of behavior is like poison to the relationship. If you want to stay together, you'll need to completely change your mindset about what it means to be married. In no way is she justified in having an affair, but it's not hard to understand why it happened. If it wasn't an affair, it would have been divorce. Unless you want to keep heading down that path, you'll need to be a better husband.


Agree 100% here. 

Bear, my biggest question here is WHY you chose to be such an absent husband? She told you and told you how she was feeling, and you went back to being neglectful anyway, and more than once! I want to understand the motivation here. I feel like this is an important thing for you to learn about yourself, so that you can figure out if you really want to try and work this out or not. Seems to me by your actions that maybe she really wasn't what you wanted all this time. A man who truly cherishes his wife doesn't neglect her. 

Despite whatever kind of husband you have been, that does not give her a get out of jail card free for cheating. She was completely in the wrong. She knew she was unhappy and that you were not changing, so she should have filed for divorce instead. I support what others have advised, keep all intel to yourself for now, don't tip your hand.


----------



## mmmrandom

BluePower I figure it like this and I say this completely without judgement (just how it could go), if he does as you say then she can turn it straight back on and say her was emotionally abusive and that drove her away.

All he has so far is the car not being where she said it was too and a few phone records. At this point it would be trivial for her to turn it around on him to independent parties.

Also having it all dragged out in the open - could affect the kids? Is that not something to think about in your opinion?


----------



## BioFury

mmmrandom said:


> BluePower I figure it like this and I say this completely without judgement (just how it could go), if he does as you say then she can turn it straight back on and say her was emotionally abusive and that drove her away.
> 
> All he has so far is the car not being where she said it was too and a few phone records. At this point it would be trivial for her to turn it around on him to independent parties.
> 
> Also having it all dragged out in the open - could affect the kids? Is that not something to think about in your opinion?


This is going to effect his children either way. I detest the notion that you should protect your children against the knowledge of a cheating parent's sins, or convey it in a non-judgmental "mommy decided to make a family with someone else" BS way. You are teaching them that having an affair is just a casual choice, that it doesn't make someone a bad person, and that it's all good. Yes, she is their mother, but they need to understand that what their mother did is not ok, that your actions define who you are. And in this case, their mothers actions have defined her as a bad person.

I do think that he should continue collecting evidence. @bear-man, if you haven't yet, don't stop short on the VAR's. Go ahead and install them like you originally planned. The more evidence you have, the better. Both legally, and to extinguish any doubt that your mind may/will create in the days to come. Once you expose her, she will start destroying evidence, as well as denying and minimizing everything. It will be too late to collect evidence, so you need to get it all now.

But no, total surprise, thermonuclear exposure is the way that this needs to be done. Exposure stops affairs dead in their tracks. Screwing around on the side becomes a lot less fun when your family, and everyone you've ever known is ashamed of you.


----------



## bear-man

BioFury said:


> This is going to effect his children either way. I detest the notion that you should protect your children against the knowledge of a cheating parent's sins, or convey it in a non-judgmental "mommy decided to make a family with someone else" BS way. You are teaching them that having an affair is just a casual choice, that it doesn't make someone a bad person, and that it's all good. Yes, she is their mother, but they need to understand that what their mother did is not ok, that your actions define who you are. And in this case, their mothers actions have defined her as a bad person.
> 
> I do think that he should continue collecting evidence. @bear-man, if you haven't yet, don't stop short on the VAR's. Go ahead and install them like you originally planned. The more evidence you have, the better. Both legally, and to extinguish any doubt that your mind may/will create in the days to come. Once you expose her, she will start destroying evidence, as well as denying and minimizing everything. It will be too late to collect evidence, so you need to get it all now.
> 
> But no, total surprise, thermonuclear exposure is the way that this needs to be done. Exposure stops affairs dead in their tracks. Screwing around on the side becomes a lot less fun when your family, and everyone you've ever known is ashamed of you.


I have been thinking about sending her text saying: "Hey I was worried that I haven't heard back from you all day. I called Onstar and they said your car in another state than the one you told me about. Are you ok? Just want to make sure. Don't worry about anything. We can talk when you get home." (Counselor suggested that). Then we she comes home, we can address it as adults and split without starting a war. I am a blunt person and say things the way I see them. Keeping quiet is killing me because I know she at a camping site with cabin this evening.


----------



## Adelais

Under normal circumstances would you call Onstar if you haven't heard from her during the day?

If not, she is going to wonder why you are "stalking" her, and her guard (and lies) will be up.

If you have never used Onstar to check where she is before, then don't tell her anything about knowing where she is not.

Plus, that is nothing but a little game. Do you like to play games?

IIWU, I'd wait until she gets home, print out the Onstar location schedule (if such a thing exists), the phone records, etc. and present it all to her at once, like a bomb. She might backpedal and make up lies, or she might feel caught with the overwhelming evidence.

You could even track her on the way home, using Onstar, and get records of that, so it is irrefutable that there was no mistake, and that Onstar was tracking the auto she was driving.

What about credit card charges. Can you get a record of the hotel/motel she is staying in? If she is staying at his home, ask her to produce a hotel bill for the nights she was gone, otherwise, you don't believe a word out of her mouth.

I have records for the endless phone conversations that my husband carried out. When he said, he "didn't remember" I pulled out the records to help him out.


----------



## bear-man

Araucaria said:


> Under normal circumstances would you call Onstar if you haven't heard from her during the day?
> 
> If not, she is going to wonder why you are "stalking" her, and her guard (and lies) will be up.
> 
> If you have never used Onstar to check where she is before, then don't tell her anything about knowing where she is not.
> 
> Plus, that is nothing but a little game. Do you like to play games?
> 
> IIWU, I'd wait until she gets home, print out the Onstar location schedule (if such a thing exists), the phone records, etc. and present it all to her at once, like a bomb. She might backpedal and make up lies, or she might feel caught with the overwhelming evidence.
> 
> You could even track her on the way home, using Onstar, and get records of that, so it is irrefutable that there was no mistake, and that Onstar was tracking the auto she was driving.
> 
> What about credit card charges. Can you get a record of the hotel/motel she is staying in? If she is staying at his home, ask her to produce a hotel bill for the nights she was gone, otherwise, you don't believe a word out of her mouth.
> 
> I have records for the endless phone conversations that my husband carried out. When he said, he "didn't remember" I pulled out the records to help him out.


Did yo stay with him?


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> I have been thinking about sending her text saying: "Hey I was worried that I haven't heard back from you all day. I called Onstar and they said your car in another state than the one you told me about. Are you ok? Just want to make sure. Don't worry about anything. We can talk when you get home." (Counselor suggested that). Then we she comes home, we can address it as adults and split without starting a war. I am a blunt person and say things the way I see them. Keeping quiet is killing me because I know she at a camping site with cabin this evening.


Get out of the house and do something. Go see a movie (Venom was good), buy yourself a nice dinner, go bowling with some friends. Just get out of the house, and keep yourself occupied. Contacting your wife, and letting her know that you're on to her, will not accomplish anything productive.

If you're close to someone (friend or family), then call and talk to them about what's going on. This will help you relieve the urge to do something, or to show your cards prematurely. Be sure they're not the type to tell other people though, as that would defeat the purpose.

ETA: Call and talk to whoever that is, whenever you get the urge to say something to your wife.


----------



## bear-man

Araucaria said:


> Under normal circumstances would you call Onstar if you haven't heard from her during the day?
> 
> If not, she is going to wonder why you are "stalking" her, and her guard (and lies) will be up.
> 
> If you have never used Onstar to check where she is before, then don't tell her anything about knowing where she is not.
> 
> Plus, that is nothing but a little game. Do you like to play games?
> 
> IIWU, I'd wait until she gets home, print out the Onstar location schedule (if such a thing exists), the phone records, etc. and present it all to her at once, like a bomb. She might backpedal and make up lies, or she might feel caught with the overwhelming evidence.
> 
> You could even track her on the way home, using Onstar, and get records of that, so it is irrefutable that there was no mistake, and that Onstar was tracking the auto she was driving.
> 
> What about credit card charges. Can you get a record of the hotel/motel she is staying in? If she is staying at his home, ask her to produce a hotel bill for the nights she was gone, otherwise, you don't believe a word out of her mouth.
> 
> I have records for the endless phone conversations that my husband carried out. When he said, he "didn't remember" I pulled out the records to help him out.





BioFury said:


> Get out of the house and do something. Go see a movie (Venom was good), buy yourself a nice dinner, go bowling with some friends. Just get out of the house, and keep yourself occupied. Contacting your wife, and letting her know that you're on to her, will not accomplish anything productive.
> 
> If you're close to someone (friend or family), then call and talk to them about what's going on. This will help you relieve the urge to do something, or to show your cards prematurely. Be sure they're not the type to tell other people though, as that would defeat the purpose.


Kids are home with me and can't go anywhere because I have no one to help out. :frown2::frown2:


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> Kids are home with me and can't go anywhere because I have no one to help out. :frown2::frown2:


Ok, what do you like doing? Games? Movies? Reading a book? What do you do when you've had a hard day, and just want to check out and not think?

I imagine that you feel fire eating you up inside, that you feel like if you don't do or say something, you'll explode. It's important that you find a healthy outlet before this urge becomes too powerful for you to resist. Can you call one of your parents or siblings? Do you have a best friend you could talk to?


----------



## bear-man

BioFury said:


> Ok, what do you like doing? Games? Movies? Reading a book? What do you do when you've had a hard day, and just want to check out and not think?
> 
> I imagine that you feel fire eating you up inside, that you feel like if you don't do or say something, you'll explode. It's important that you find a healthy outlet before this urge becomes too powerful for you to resist. Can you call one of your parents or siblings? Do you have a best friend you could talk to?


Unfortunately no body. I know I am pathetic. All my life revolves around my kids and her.


----------



## BioFury

Ok, something I've done in the past, is write out what I want to say in a blank email. Put it all down, don't leave anything out. If you want, you could even write it out here if actually sending it to someone will help you. Or if you think it would be better for you to actually speak, then turn on the recorder on your phone, and say what you'd like to communicate to your wife.

I find this helpful, because I can express what I'm feeling, and I feel better afterward. Without causing any damage.


----------



## Marc878

A strong man would deal with this upfront. Not play little wishy washy games of hide and seek.

All you're going to end up doing going this weak route is getting played and wallow in your wife's infidelity.

She's out screwing her boyfriend and you are home babysitting the kids acting affraid.

Why don't you try being pissed off. It's a lot better than being pissed on.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> A strong man would deal with this upfront. Not play little wishy washy games of hide and seek.
> 
> All you're going to end up doing going this weak route is getting played and wallow in your wife's infidelity.
> 
> She's out screwing her boyfriend and you are home babysitting the kids acting affraid.
> 
> Why don't you try being pissed off. It's a lot better than being pissed on.


A _smart _man, would do what's best for his future. Not blow up under the guise of being "strong".

It takes no strength at all to be angry, or act out of emotion. What does require strength, is containing yourself when you'd rather not be silent.


----------



## Marc878

Playing games. Manipulation gets you nowhere. You can still be strong and play it smart.

Getting walked on or allowing yourself to be played just drags it out longer than necessary.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> Playing games. Manipulation gets you nowhere. You can still be strong and play it smart.
> 
> Getting walked on or allowing yourself to be played just drags it out longer than necessary.


Playing it smart, is not what you're advocating. You're falsely equating "macho" chesting-beating displays with strength.

There's nothing to be gained by revealing his knowledge of her affair at this time. And in fact, he has a lot to lose by doing so. Thus the strong, and smart, thing to do is stay quiet, until it's time to strike.

You don't charge an invading enemy's lines by yourself in your pajamas, because you're "strong" and won't tolerate the disrespect of them being on your land.

You stay cool and collected, prepare yourself, gather your strength, and hit them when you're strongest, and they're weakest.


----------



## Marc878

BioFury said:


> *Playing it smart, is not what you're advocating. You're falsely equating "macho" chesting-beating displays with strength.*
> 
> *There's nothing to be gained by revealing his knowledge of her affair at this time.* And in fact, he has a lot to lose by doing so. Thus the strong, and smart, thing to do is stay quiet, until it's time to strike.
> 
> You don't charge an invading enemy's lines by yourself in your pajamas, because you're "strong" and won't tolerate the disrespect of them being on your land.
> 
> You stay cool and collected, prepare yourself, gather your strength, and hit them when you're strongest, and they're weakest.


Where did I advocate any of what you've written in my post? Strength is a mindset nothing more. It's not physical, etc.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> Where did I advocate any of what you've written in my post? Strength is a mindset nothing more. It's not physical, etc.


See below.



Marc878 said:


> A strong man would deal with this upfront *(e.i. immediately, confrontationally)* . Not play little wishy washy games of hide and seek. *("Hide and seek" being not saying anything until the time is right.)*
> 
> All you're going to end up doing going this weak route is getting played and wallow in your wife's infidelity.
> 
> She's out screwing her boyfriend and you are home babysitting the kids acting affraid. *(He's not afraid. I'd venture to say he's heartbroken and angry.)*
> 
> Why don't you try being pissed off. It's a lot better than being pissed on. *(Implication being, he should express his anger to his wife. Rather than bide his time, and be "pissed on")*


----------



## Marc878

Nope, you read into it what you wanted to fit your agenda.

He should go his own way like she did. How he does that is up to him. 

I never advocated anything you wrote. Those are your words not mine.


----------



## bear-man

The thought of her right at this second being with someone else 8-9 hours away is pissing me off like never before. I don't know if I can hold it out. I want to text her andet her know that I know she is not where she said she will be. Why wait until she comes back?


----------



## Marc878

If it were me I'd send a short text.

I know where you are (location) who you're with, what you're doing. 

Then go completey dark. Do not answer any texts or phone calls. Cheaters lie hide and deny. That's all you'll get. So skip any engagement at this time.

If he's married and I assume he is I'd send the same info to his wife. You have his phone number. You can probably find her on the net or Facebook.

Her knowing the jig is up isn't going to hurt you anymore than it has at this point.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> Nope, you read into it what you wanted to fit your agenda.
> 
> He should go his own way like she did. How he does that is up to him.
> 
> I never advocated anything you wrote. Those are your words not mine.


I don't have an agenda, this isn't the midterms.



bear-man said:


> The thought of her right at this second being with someone else 8-9 hours away is pissing me off like never before. I don't know if I can hold it out. I want to text her andet her know that I know she is not where she said she will be. Why wait until she comes back?


Let's say you tell her right now. Then what? What have you accomplished? Nothing. You're just going to be left scrambling to prepare for the coming storm, when you could have had all the time you need to get ready - had you stayed silent.

You need to:

1. Open your own bank account, and make the necessary changes to have your paycheck deposited into that new account.
2. You need to retain a lawyer, and ask them what documents you need in order to file for divorce. Gather those documents, and follow their instructions.
3. You need to research whether you live in a at-fault divorce state, or no-fault divorce state. Your attorney will also be able to tell you this. If you live in a fault state, then you need to gather physical evidence that will prove in court that she was cheating on you. Hence the VAR, and doing more digging.

Then, once you have your ducks in a row, have solid evidence that she is indeed cheating, have separated your paycheck from the joint account, and your attorney has drafted the necessary documents, and are having them served to her that day - then you can tell her parents, and the rest of her family and friends.


----------



## Marc878

Dont ever make any ultimatums or threats that you can't/won't carry out.

Let her wallow in it now. Do not warn her that you're contacting his wife. Theyll just conspire against you.

Your silence is best afterwards.

Cool, calm and collected.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> If it were me I'd send a short text.
> 
> I know where you are (location) *who you're with, what you're doing. *
> 
> Then go completey dark. Do not answer any texts or phone calls. Cheaters lie hide and deny. That's all you'll get. So skip any engagement at this time.
> 
> *If he's married and I assume he is I'd send the same info to his wife.* You have his phone number. You can probably find her on the net or Facebook.
> 
> Her knowing the jig is up isn't going to hurt you anymore than it has at this point.


Right, when he doesn't know either of those things. He needs proof, not assumptions.

Except that he doesn't know who the OM's wife is, or have proof that the OM is really who she's seeing. And that might be helpful, before you, you know, make completely unsupported allegations about him to his wife. Hiring a PI to go photograph them together, since he has their GPS location, would be a less idiotic thing to do. Geez Marc.


----------



## Marc878

If you live in a no fault state adultery won't matter.

You know the truth you don't need anymore evidence. Unless you just want it.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> If you live in a no fault state adultery won't matter.
> 
> You know the truth you don't need evidence. Unless you just want it.


OMG. You're not helping Marc. Yes, that's why he needs to get himself a lawyer, so he can find out what type of state he's in before blowing his only chance to collect evidence. Because if he does in fact live in a fault state, evidence will make a significant difference in court. For how much money he gets to keep, custody, everything.

But why get bogged down in frivolous details.


----------



## Marc878

Op is here for guidance and opinions. He can do as he pleases.

He knows the score here.


----------



## BioFury

@faithfulwife @personofinterest Would you guys help me out here? More voices of reason are desperately needed.


----------



## Marc878

Op google divorce laws in your state. It'll take you about 45 seconds to determine if it's no fault.

Most are nowadays.


----------



## Beach123

bear-man said:


> The thought of her right at this second being with someone else 8-9 hours away is pissing me off like never before. I don't know if I can hold it out. I want to text her andet her know that I know she is not where she said she will be. Why wait until she comes back?


I'd text and tell her not to bother coming home!

Tell her to just stay with her boyfriend... that's what I'd do.

Hit her hard. Ruin her time with him!


And don't believe a word she says when she calls crying to you!


----------



## skerzoid

bear-man said:


> The thought of her right at this second being with someone else 8-9 hours away is pissing me off like never before. I don't know if I can hold it out. I want to text her andet her know that I know she is not where she said she will be. Why wait until she comes back?


bear-man:

Time to be a grizzly and not a teddy bear.

1. Lawyer up, now. Tell them to get the papers ready.

2. Divorce takes a long time. You can watch her actions and decide what you want to do.

3. I would text her to stay in Kentucky and that you will go ahead and tell everyone where she is and that she is shacking up with her new boyfriend. I wouldn't actually tell your kids but I wouldn't tell her that...I would tell the parents what is going on.

4. Do *not* answer texts or phone calls. Ghost her. It will drive her nuts.

5. *Separate Finances*. Cancel credit cards.

6. Have her served at work after she gets back. It will be a cold hard slap in the face.

7. Do not try to play the pick me dance. It never works. Do the 180 instead.

8. Stay strong, courageous, and decisive. We are all rooting for you. Now get it up and be a grizzly.


----------



## Beach123

Move all available money before you notify her.

Cancel all joint accounts and credit cards. Pro t balances on all cards out so you know how much combined debt you have now - so she can't try and make you pay for what she spends in the future.

Change the locks if you want. Tell her if she demands on staying in the house you plan to make her more than miserable if she's there.

Take charge! If you don't - she will.


----------



## BluesPower

mmmrandom said:


> BluePower I figure it like this and I say this completely without judgement (just how it could go), if he does as you say then she can turn it straight back on and say her was emotionally abusive and that drove her away.
> 
> All he has so far is the car not being where she said it was too and a few phone records. At this point it would be trivial for her to turn it around on him to independent parties.
> 
> Also having it all dragged out in the open - could affect the kids? Is that not something to think about in your opinion?


Yeah, a lot of people think like this, and they would be wrong. This is not how you handle this stuff. 

Affairs require the light of day to end them. Exposure at the right time is the only way to deal with this stuff. I know a lot of people have tried it the other way, and that leads to a host of other issues. 

If you want to save a marriage, you have to be willing to end it. If she is gone the she is gone. 

If she cares about her family or her reputation at all, the shame may wake her up. 

Full brutal exposure at the right time is the only way...


----------



## WorkingWife

bear-man said:


> I am not a jerk. The mistakes I made were when I was in my 20s. I want to stay married of course but not if she is having an affair.


Were you in your 20's when you went back to ignoring her and being on your phone all the time?

If she's having an affair, and it sounds like she is, there is no excuse for that. 

But if you have been ignoring her all the time every time you get comfortable, even after she's let you know she wants more closeness and connection -- what reason would she have to want to be with you? I don't mean this in a mean way, just a serious question.


----------



## BluesPower

Marc878 said:


> A strong man would deal with this upfront. Not play little wishy washy games of hide and seek.
> 
> All you're going to end up doing going this weak route is getting played and wallow in your wife's infidelity.
> 
> She's out screwing her boyfriend and you are home babysitting the kids acting affraid.
> 
> Why don't you try being pissed off. It's a lot better than being pissed on.


No Marc, that is not the deal. She makes more, he is filing on tues if he keeps his word, when she is served it is full exposure. 

She is on a trip with her OM, come to find out, she is not coming back. 

Better to file and expose. She is doing the separate and have an affair thing, he just needs to divorce and move on. 

He could get alimony and maybe the kids, we will she what she says when she is busted...


----------



## bear-man

Here is an update. Earlier this morning, I was like F it, I am going to tell her that I know where she is. So I did. It was a simple message:"I know you're in x State and NOT where you said you were. We'll talk when you get here. Or you can stay there if you want. Bye" 

She has yet to respond. Our kids had sports today. She didn't even call them to wish them good luck. 

Car is no longer trackable for some odd reason.


----------



## turnera

IIWY, I would be contacting all financial institutions right now so that she can't drain the accounts or lock you out.


----------



## bear-man

turnera said:


> IIWY, I would be contacting all financial institutions right now so that she can't drain the accounts or lock you out.


Under control.


----------



## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> Under control.


Brother I hope so. This is the reason I wanted you to wait. 

If you have protected your money, I guess it really doesn't matter. 

How long is their camping trip anyway???


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> Car is no longer trackable for some odd reason.


Really? You mean your wife isn't just going to sit there and do nothing while you divorce her? That's news.

This mistake is going to cost you. You're now behind, rather than ahead in the fight.


----------



## bear-man

@BluesPower they were their last night. I sent her the text around 6am. They went back to his house and now have been there since noon (Est). She didn't acknowledgemy text or call. I wonder what she is planning? Or if she is feeling the shame of getting caught


----------



## bear-man

@BioFury what is it going to cost me? I really want to know.


----------



## wilson

bear-man said:


> @BluesPower they were their last night. I sent her the text around 6am. They went back to his house and now have been there since noon (Est). She didn't acknowledgemy text or call. I wonder what she is planning? Or if she is feeling the shame of getting caught


You're getting way too caught up in this. You are artificially putting your brain in a state of excitement and anticipation. What is she doing? Where is she? When will she respond to my text? It's been 10 seconds, I should check again.... You are training yourself to crave drama. *You* need to break the cycle. Overthinking is going to put you in a weak position and your wife is going to love it. She'll learn she can control you by delaying her response or saying just the right thing. Women love drama. The more you show that you're obsessed with this, the more she'll take advantage. Don't allow yourself to be her puppet.

Get your mind off this. Do something fun and interactive. Take the boys out to the arcade and go bowling. Do something where you can't dwell on the situation. Start making your own fun. Don't make your identity so tied up with your wife. It's going to be a long time before things get stable again. You have to work to keep yourself grounded during this time.


----------



## bear-man

wilson said:


> bear-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> @BluesPower they were their last night. I sent her the text around 6am. They went back to his house and now have been there since noon (Est). She didn't acknowledgemy text or call. I wonder what she is planning? Or if she is feeling the shame of getting caught
> 
> 
> 
> You're getting way too caught up in this. You are artificially putting your brain in a state of excitement and anticipation. What is she doing? Where is she? When will she respond to my text? It's been 10 seconds, I should check again.... You are training yourself to crave drama. *You* need to break the cycle. Overthinking is going to put you in a weak position and your wife is going to love it. She'll learn she can control you by delaying her response or saying just the right thing. Women love drama. The more you show that you're obsessed with this, the more she'll take advantage. Don't allow yourself to be her puppet.
> 
> Get your mind off this. Do something fun and interactive. Take the boys out to the arcade and go bowling. Do something where you can't dwell on the situation. Start making your own fun. Don't make your identity so tied up with your wife. It's going to be a long time before things get stable again. You have to work to keep yourself grounded during this time.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I needed to hear this. I'm currently working out and taking a break from that crap.


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> What is it going to cost me? I really want to know.


That all depends on what type of state you're in (at fault vs. no fault), how smart your wife is, and the judge. But money/assets is usually where you'll get drained. If you had actual evidence that she was/is having an affair, and depending on the state, you could have received preferential treatment from the court. By receiving more alimony, a larger portion of the assets, etc. But all you have currently is your word against hers.

If you know where they are, and have the funds, then I'd hire a PI in that town, and send them to his house. In the hope of getting physical proof of their affair (photos of them together).


----------



## bear-man

BioFury said:


> bear-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it going to cost me? I really want to know.
> 
> 
> 
> That all depends on what type of state you're in (at fault vs. no fault), how smart your wife is, and the judge. But money/assets is usually where you'll get drained. If you had actual evidence that she was/is having an affair, and depending on the state, you could have received preferential treatment from the court. By receiving more alimony, a larger portion of the assets, etc. But all you have currently is your word against hers.
> 
> If you know where they are, and have the funds, then I'd hire a PI in that town, and send them to his house. In the hope of getting physical proof of their affair (photos of them together).
Click to expand...

I have money set aside under an llc. I also have control over the financials (logins and everything). You think there is anyhting else she could go after?


----------



## bear-man

BioFury said:


> bear-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it going to cost me? I really want to know.
> 
> 
> 
> That all depends on what type of state you're in (at fault vs. no fault), how smart your wife is, and the judge. But money/assets is usually where you'll get drained. If you had actual evidence that she was/is having an affair, and depending on the state, you could have received preferential treatment from the court. By receiving more alimony, a larger portion of the assets, etc. But all you have currently is your word against hers.
> 
> If you know where they are, and have the funds, then I'd hire a PI in that town, and send them to his house. In the hope of getting physical proof of their affair (photos of them together).
Click to expand...

The state I live in considers adultery as a ground to make decisions about alimony and custody.


----------



## BluesPower

I will try to answer some of your questions. 

By warning her that you know what is up, now she has time to make a plan. 

First thing she did was turn off OnStar so you could not track her. And look, I know this is tearing you up, I get it. 

So now she and her OM are making a plan, one thing she is libel to do is show up at the bank, and drain every penny that she has access to. Savings, checking, everything. If she cannot access any money, the cool, you are ok. But I suspect that she can. If it is a chain, then she will do it there. 

You know that she is having and affair now, but can you prove it in court. And the other thing you should know, is that, since she has not resounded she already planned on leaving you for this guy. So I guess he is single. 

I assume that you have no desire to save the marriage. Because she really seems gone right now. 

And what you have done by letting her know you know, is going to make it worse. She will start telling everyone she knows soon, about what an inattentive dork you are, and you could not please a woman in bed if you tried. It will probably get bad. 

So, now, where do you think you are at? Can she get to the money, because half of the checking account is yours, no matter who put the most in. So she will drain that tomorrow. 

How much money do you have put away? 

Things you don't know: 
1) what her next step is? 
2) who the guy is? 
3) how long the affair has been going on? 
4) any other information about all of this, which would have given you an edge. 

So do you see why I told you to wait? Once you saw the lawyer, you would have know what you needed to prove infidelity. Right now, you cannot prove she was even with him, or can you. 

On Monday, you need to go the lawyer or find one that can meet you first thing in the morning and try to catch up. 

Do this after you get there when the bank open so you can draw out YOUR Half of the checking account. 

Let me know that you understand this...


----------



## BioFury

bear-man said:


> I have money set aside under an llc. I also have control over the financials (logins and everything). You think there is anyhting else she could go after?


You really need to retain a lawyer in regards to your assets and finances. If you take shared assets/money as your own, you could get into trouble. So find yourself a lawyer the first of the week.



bear-man said:


> The state I live in considers adultery as a ground to make decisions about alimony and custody.


Well, then I would make an effort to gather evidence of her affair. Which is going to be three times as difficult, now that she's actively destroying her tracks. Contact a PI, and get photos. Contact your cell provider, and see about getting text transcripts.


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> ... You know that she is having and affair now, but can you prove it in court. And the other thing you should know, is that, since she has not resounded she already planned on leaving you for this guy. So I guess he is single.
> 
> I assume that you have no desire to save the marriage. Because she really seems gone right now.
> 
> And what you have done by letting her know you know, is going to make it worse. She will start telling everyone she knows soon, about what an inattentive dork you are, and you could not please a woman in bed if you tried. It will probably get bad.


It could get even worse than what Blues says here because she may want to get sole custody of your children. To counteract the story you should now be telling her parents, she may even ask boyfriend to hit her, causing bruises, then she will go to the police and tell them that she had to escape because you were beating her, and that now she is worried about your kids and whether you will hurt them. They will arrest you and jail you until they figure out the charges can not be substantiated, and your kids (hopefully) will tell the truth that you never hurt her.

You made a terrible mistake by prematurely letting her know that you are aware of the affair. That is going to allow her and her lover to make plans. I believe that Marc878 allows has some responsibility because he kept egging you on... he probably realized you were vulnerable and prone to knee-jerk reactions. You got good advice from most of the other posters about playing it cool until you got more proof, but you did not listen to them.

I feel sorry for your children, they are going to suffer from you and your wife's actions.

You may want to ask the mods to move this to Coping with Infidelity forum.


----------



## turnera

btw, you prematurely telling her that you know is STRAIGHT out of the book No More Mr Nice Guy. Did you ever read it like you were advised to?


----------



## Beach123

I disagree, the outcome is the same when they divorce. Waiting doesn't make things any better...usually makes it worse. Expect more lies from her - bit to be believed.

All he needs for proof is her communication with the OM. Get phone records and email correspondence.

Exposing to her family should happen asap - although they will side with her just because she's family.

At least he exposed - no more need to listen to her lies while pretending to believe her.

He can now take control of his future without her manipulating him.

Cutting off/separating her means of spending more is important right now. Protect yourself in every way possible. Stay three steps ahead of her manipulation.


----------



## Marc878

bear-man said:


> 2 boys
> 
> Married for 13 years
> 
> *She does make more money than me: $140k - me $100k*
> 
> House in under her name though - we did it that way because of my job. I do think I am on the deed
> 
> My question is: Should I tell the kids?


You'll pay no alimony. Child custody will be 50/50 as long as you have a decent attorney.

She may end up paying you..

Tell your kids in a sanitized way. We can't be married any longer because mommy has a boyfriend his name is John Doe. Yep tell them who he is. A friend of mine did this and it worked out a lot better than lying yo them and keeping them in the dark. 

Calling her out didn't cost you a thing.

Except a waste of your time trying to play detective which in your case won't get you anything. Except a longer stay in limbo.


----------



## Marc878

Edmund said:


> It could get even worse than what Blues says here because she may want to get sole custody of your children. To counteract the story you should now be telling her parents, she may even ask boyfriend to hit her, causing bruises, then she will go to the police and tell them that she had to escape because you were beating her, and that now she is worried about your kids and whether you will hurt them. They will arrest you and jail you until they figure out the charges can not be substantiated, and your kids (hopefully) will tell the truth that you never hurt her.
> 
> *You made a terrible mistake by prematurely letting her know that you are aware of the affair. That is going to allow her and her lover to make plans. I believe that Marc878 allows has some responsibility because he kept egging you* on... he probably realized you were vulnerable and prone to knee-jerk reactions. You got good advice from most of the other posters about playing it cool until you got more proof, but you did not listen to them.
> 
> I feel sorry for your children, they are going to suffer from you and your wife's actions.
> 
> You may want to ask the mods to move this to Coping with Infidelity forum.


If you'd bothered to read the facts (his wife makes more than him). No courts nowadays grant anyone full custody unles you're a criminal or a proven drug user. He'll get 50/50 just like anyone else. 

You obviously don't have a clue. It must be hard living life being affraid of what might happen all the time.


----------



## Marc878

BioFury said:


> That all depends on what type of state you're in (at fault vs. no fault), how smart your wife is, and the judge. But money/assets is usually where you'll get drained. If you had actual evidence that she was/is having an affair, and depending on the state, you could have received preferential treatment from the court. By receiving more alimony, a larger portion of the assets, etc. But all you have currently is your word against hers.
> 
> If you know where they are, and have the funds, then I'd hire a PI in that town, and send them to his house. In the hope of getting physical proof of their affair (photos of them together).


A PI costs about 1000 per day. Look it up. 
Even if you were to get pic, etc. what would you do with them?

50/50 custody is almost automatic in this day and age.

She makes more than you. Alimony is a straight calculation. She might end up paying you.

You did well. Stay strong and keep moving forward. The ones who get strong and stay there come out of these situations best.

Being affraid and indecisive will just add to your misery.


----------



## BluesPower

Marc, on this one I disagree, I think the only time. 

We all knew from his first post that his wife was cheating. 

My approach is that he did not really seem like he wanted to save the marriage to start with, that's what I got. 

I figured after he found out, the if he prepped it really well, the shock and rain down hell on her once it was filed would have been a better idea. 

It may not have really changed anything, but if she drains an account Monday morning I guess that is worse. 

So we will see how it works out...


----------



## Edmund

Marc878 said:


> If you'd bothered to read the facts (his wife makes more than him). No courts nowadays grant anyone full custody unles you're a criminal or a proven drug user. He'll get 50/50 just like anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously don't have a clue. It must be hard living life being affraid of what might happen all the time.



Marc he doesn’t even know the OMs identity! He could have exposed to OM’s wife (if there is one). By now they have cooked up some web of lies to tell everyone and she may drain his bank accounts if he doesn’t move like lightning tomorrow to close accounts or withdraw half.

Btw Marc you can try to insult me all you want, I don’t give a crap about what you think about me. But you gave bear bad advice and you should own it. I think you just get off on reading about how his marriage is about to blow up, and want to speed up the process.

Bear, I think you are the type of husband who thinks his wife is a possession and are burned up that the OM “stole” her. Fact is, by your own admission, you don’t give her any attention at home, and if so, that is a factor in what she did. Not that this justifies her betrayal in having an affair. You two are probably better off divorced. You need to think of your children. As she will have at least half custody.


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> We all knew from his first post that his wife was cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> My approach is that he did not really seem like he wanted to save the marriage to start with, that's what I got.
> 
> 
> 
> I figured after he found out, the if he prepped it really well, the shock and rain down hell on her once it was filed would have been a better idea.
> 
> 
> 
> It may not have really changed anything, but if she drains an account Monday morning I guess that is worse.
> 
> 
> 
> So we will see how it works out...



Well, we all knew after post number 7, where he laid out more red flags than a communist parade, and then asked, gee do you think I’m over reacting? I thought it was a joke at first, could anyone possibly be that oblivious to what going on?

I will leave it to you and the others with experience to try to help bear-man. It just seemed cruel what Marc did knowing bear wanted to lash out. Now when his wife comes home, and she will, because of the children, she will be armed to the teeth and ready to rewrite history.


----------



## Marc878

Edmund said:


> Well, we all knew after post number 7, where he laid out more red flags than a communist parade, and then asked, gee do you think I’m over reacting? I thought it was a joke at first, could anyone possibly be that oblivious to what going on?
> 
> I will leave it to you and the others with experience to try to help bear-man. It just seemed cruel what Marc did knowing bear wanted to lash out. Now when his wife comes home, and she will, because of the children, she will be armed to the teeth and ready to rewrite history.


You never read the facts or put them together like a few others. 

*Alimony - nope, there is a good chance she'll end up paying.
Child custody - he'll get 50/50 just like everyone else and with the disparity of income he may even get child support as well.*

As far as bank accounts, etc. easily fixed.

In this case zero leverage for laying back and waiting.

Al this info was in his earlier posts. All you had to do was read them.


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> Well, we all knew after post number 7, where he laid out more red flags than a communist parade, and then asked, gee do you think I’m over reacting? I thought it was a joke at first, could anyone possibly be that oblivious to what going on?
> 
> I will leave it to you and the others with experience to try to help bear-man. It just seemed cruel what Marc did knowing bear wanted to lash out. Now when his wife comes home, and she will, because of the children, she will be armed to the teeth and ready to rewrite history.


Yeah, not quite. I personally knew from the first post. Or I guessed. It is a gift that I have, or a curse, not sure which one. For some reason I can spot it from a mile away. 

Marc, is a good poster. He may be more harsh than me even, but like some people do not understand, he means well anc usually his advice is spot on. I actually disagree with him on this one, which is unusual.

I wanted him to see a lawyer first and not give her any warning, particularly because she makes 40K more than he does. 

But is was obvious that she was cheating. Usually, when a woman wants to separate kind of out of the blue, then there is almost always another man. Not every single time, most of the time. 

In this case, she planed of separating, being able to see her OM, and the divorce him without the world finding out that she was a cheating POS...

This happens A LOT...


----------



## wilson

Marc878 said:


> As far as bank accounts, etc. easily fixed.


Yeah, her draining the bank accounts isn't necessarily going to have terrible consequences for him. It's all still shared property. She can't hide it and keep it out of the division of assets. The judge would likely say, "Well, that $XX you took from the account, that just counts towards your 50% division of assets."


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> A PI costs about 1000 per day. Look it up.
> Even if you were to get pic, etc. what would you do with them?
> 
> 50/50 custody is almost automatic in this day and age.
> 
> She makes more than you. Alimony is a straight calculation. She might end up paying you.
> 
> You did well. Stay strong and keep moving forward. The ones who get strong and stay there come out of these situations best.
> 
> Being affraid and indecisive will just add to your misery.


Dude, just stop. Your half-baked advice has already cost the OP enough. I know full well what a PI costs, and it isn't $1000/day. 

The OP has already stated he lives in a fault state, so if you can't see the utility of having pictures of them together, then you need more help than I can provide.


----------



## Marc878

BioFury said:


> Dude, just stop. Your half-baked advice has already cost the OP enough. I know full well what a PI costs, and it isn't $1000/day.
> 
> The OP has already stated he lives in a fault state, so if you can't see the utility of having pictures of them together, then you need more help than I can provide.


Nope, google it. PI's can be $100 per hour. 

I already stated/listed my facts on alimony, child custody, etc. 

You are just whining now because you got called on your cluelessness on the facts in this thread.


----------



## Marc878

@BioFury state your case. 

Tell us, the OP how his wayward is going to magically get full custody of his kids, alimony, drain his bank accounts, etc from calling her out on her infidelity.

That info would be valuable to the OP.

Let's hear it. Spell it out.


----------



## turnera

You guys both make lots of money, so you'll still be able to survive until the divorce, which is usually the issue for which we say don't let them take the money - to starve the BS out to accept a bad divorce settlement. Don't worry about it. Just make sure you have all the documentation.

I would personally be more worried about what she's saying to the family. If she tells her family that you're some child molester or something, they might band together to keep you from getting 50/50 custody. Which is why you should be CALLING them and telling them that she's cheating, and so you are going to file for divorce. They will believe the first person they hear. Make it be you.

And guys? Take it outside.


----------



## BioFury

Marc878 said:


> Nope, google it. PI's can be $100 per hour.
> 
> I already stated/listed my facts on alimony, child custody, etc.
> 
> You are just whining now because you got called on your cluelessness on the facts in this thread.


I don't need to google it, I have two retained right now.

Your "facts" are nothing but guesses. And if you hadn't been in a hurry to blow all your hot air out, and encouraged the OP to expose the affair to his wife before he could collect evidence (you know, that useless stuff no one needs - according to you), then he could have come out of this on top. Since he is, in fact, in a fault state.

But all of that's ok. He just needs to "have a strong mindset" and everything will be perfectly fine.


----------



## BluesPower

turnera said:


> I would personally be more worried about what she's saying to the family. If she tells her family that you're some child molester or something, they might band together to keep you from getting 50/50 custody. Which is why you should be CALLING them and telling them that she's cheating, and so you are going to file for divorce. They will believe the first person they hear. Make it be you.


This is more what I am worried about. Her spreading lies about him building her case for having an affair. 

At this point it does not matter, but let's hope she does not beat him to the bank Monday morning, and pull all of the money out. 

Granted, there will be proof that she did that and he will probably get most of it back. But it is just an unnecessary pile of crap for him to go through after everything else. 

At this point I wonder if she will even bother to come home or not.

It will be interesting to see how this works out...


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> This is more what I am worried about. Her spreading lies about him building her case for having an affair.
> 
> At this point it does not matter, but let's hope she does not beat him to the bank Monday morning, and pull all of the money out.
> 
> Granted, there will be proof that she did that and he will probably get most of it back. But it is just an unnecessary pile of crap for him to go through after everything else.
> 
> At this point I wonder if she will even bother to come home or not.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this works out...


Exactly right about all of this, Blues. I think she will come home because of the children. But I am not sure. Bearman said she did not even call to wish them success in their sports events.


----------



## jlg07

bear-man, now that you've confronted her, you need to expose this to your/her family. This will prevent her from re-writing your history. Try to get whatever proof documented. You need to get with a lawyer RIGHT AWAY. This may be a planned exit affair, and if so, she already has her plans setup and now she will execute. You need to make sure that you, your kids, and your finances are protected.

Do you know who the OM is? If so, try to expose to his wife/gf if he is attached. THIS may be worth getting a PI to get HIS information.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Hey guys... arguing between you ISNT helping Bear! It doesn't matter what you guys think about each other's advice... focus on him please!


----------



## personofinterest

BioFury said:


> OMG. You're not helping Marc. Yes, that's why he needs to get himself a lawyer, so he can find out what type of state he's in before blowing his only chance to collect evidence. Because if he does in fact live in a fault state, evidence will make a significant difference in court. For how much money he gets to keep, custody, everything.
> 
> But why get bogged down in frivolous details.


People may want to deny it, but even in no-fault states proven infidelity CAN make a difference. Especially if you can also figure things like how much family $$ might have been used to fund the A, how much time taken away from children, etc. If nothing else, a bit of sympathy in the direction of a BS from a judge can make a difference, especially is the WS continues their entitlement mentality into court proceedings.

Plus, most people who understand depth of commitment and have the depth of character to experience deep commitment NEED to KNOW they are divorcing for the right reason. A shallow, selfish person can just chuck a marriage because something doesn't smell right....but a person who really understands the vows might need concrete, tangible proof for THEMSELVES that the vow needs to be severed. So I can understand wanting proof.

That said, even without concrete proof, when there are lots of telltale signs, the first order of business is a consultation with a good attorney to at least find out about the what-ifs.


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## bear-man

So she comes home yesterday and days she doesn't want to talk to me. She said the reason why she didn't want to tell me where she is going is she knew I'd get upset because she was meeting the guy who was hired by her company to do some work. She again swore ggag nothing happened and that it is purely professional. She also went on saying that she needs me to give her space so she can think about us and that I keep failing at doing that. I'm heading to an attorney today to get started at least. My gut keeps giving me warnings. I do love her and I know I have been the best of husband's but like you said guys, I need a concrete proof. However, all the facts are pointing at something not good. She doesn't know I am tracking her car and online activity. Only thing left is a VAR. On a side note, the pain is almost insurmountable.


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## Beach123

Start collecting solid evidence. May need a separate gps tracker now.

She is a bigger liar than I anticipated. 

Protect yourself - make sure you move money/assets now - into your name only.

You don't need to give her ANY explanations!

You love her? You don't even know her and what she's capable of!

The woman you thought you loved left a long time ago.


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## 3Xnocharm

I don't personally think you need more proof than her admitting to you that she lied to you and met up with this guy. A lie of that magnitude alone is grounds to file. But if it will help you in court then I understand you trying to dig more. Bad part is now she knows that you know, and she will be deleting and erasing every possible footprint she thinks you would be able to find. 

If she needs space, tell her to go stay with her parents or a friend. Why should you be punished by her presence?


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## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> So she comes home yesterday and days she doesn't want to talk to me. She said the reason why she didn't want to tell me where she is going is she knew I'd get upset because she was meeting the guy who was hired by her company to do some work. She again swore ggag nothing happened and that it is purely professional. She also went on saying that she needs me to give her space so she can think about us and that I keep failing at doing that. I'm heading to an attorney today to get started at least. My gut keeps giving me warnings. I do love her and I know I have been the best of husband's but like you said guys, I need a concrete proof. However, all the facts are pointing at something not good. She doesn't know I am tracking her car and online activity. Only thing left is a VAR. On a side note, the pain is almost insurmountable.


You simply cannot believe anything she is telling you. You know that she is lying don't you? 

Please tell me you know this, or are you falling for her lies?


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## bear-man

BluesPower said:


> You simply cannot believe anything she is telling you. You know that she is lying don't you?
> 
> Please tell me you know this, or are you falling for her lies?


I am not falling for her lies. I know when it all started and I know how it will end up for her. She will come running back to me after she finds out this dude is a loser.

PS: I won't take her back


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## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> I am not falling for her lies. I know when it all started and I know how it will end up for her. She will come running back to me after she finds out this dude is a loser.


Let me help you out with the rest of your paragraph that you forgot to write....

"And when she comes running back I will tell her to F off and get lost. Court is next week, you need to find some other place to live." 

Which is kind of what you should have told her when she walked through the door...


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## wilson

Speaking of VARs, make sure you understand what is legal or not. If you do something that isn't legal, make sure you don't tell people about it or else it can be held against you. Many of the laws about audio recording are specific to your state, so check if your state is two-party (everyone being recorded needs to know) or one-party (only the person recording needs to know).

- Keeping a VAR on you to record conversations you have. Legal in a one-party state. In a two-party state, you have to let the other person know you are recording. This can be done by showing her the VAR and saying you're carrying it with you at all times.

- Recording conversations you're not a part of (e.g. putting it in her car). This is almost certainly illegal. Since you are not part those conversations, you don't have any right to record them. Even if you own her car, you can't do it. The exception would be something like if you had a sign in the car saying "All conversations are being recorded."

You should carry a VAR on you at all times. She is going to be lying to you, and you should expect her to start making up lies about you and what you said. There have been men here who had the cops called on them for domestic abuse, but they were able to play the recording to the cops to prove what really happened.

Whether or not you put it in her car is up to you, but keep in mind that if you ever reveal that you did it, you could get in trouble. And don't do anything stupid like have the same exact model of VAR in your pocket and in her car, both of which were purchased at the same time with a credit card in your name.


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## samyeagar

bear-man said:


> I am not falling for her lies. I know when it all started and I know how it will end up for her. She will come running back to me after she finds out this dude is a loser.
> 
> PS: I won't take her back


Or after he gets her knocked up and he kicks her to the curb...


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## ButtPunch

bear-man said:


> So she comes home yesterday and days she doesn't want to talk to me. She said the reason why she didn't want to tell me where she is going is she knew I'd get upset because she was meeting the guy who was hired by her company to do some work. She again swore ggag nothing happened and that it is purely professional. She also went on saying that she needs me to give her space so she can think about us and that I keep failing at doing that. I'm heading to an attorney today to get started at least. My gut keeps giving me warnings. I do love her and I know I have been the best of husband's but like you said guys, I need a concrete proof. However, all the facts are pointing at something not good. She doesn't know I am tracking her car and online activity. Only thing left is a VAR. On a side note, the pain is almost insurmountable.


I'm sorry about the pain

See a doctor if you can't sleep or focus at work

You love who you thought she was.....Not her

She's a cheater


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## bear-man

samyeagar said:


> Or after he gets her knocked up and he kicks her to the curb...


Yeah. That's what a friend told me. She said that most affair are with people who usually losers


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## Stormguy2018

Bear, sorry for all the pain and deceit. I'd get the divorce papers ready to go and when you have solid proof, you're ready to go. 

There's no way this just a "friendship" or "work relationship."


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## [email protected]

Bear-man,Stormguy2018 is right! You have to be like your picture. Be strong and do your 180.


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## bear-man

[email protected] said:


> Bear-man,Stormguy2018 is right! You have to be like your picture. Be strong and do your 180.


I am trying. It is one of the hardest things I have ever endured to be honest. Doing the 180 for sure!! I am actually going out tonight out of the blue. wink wink


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## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> I am trying. It is one of the hardest things I have ever endured to be honest. Doing the 180 for sure!! I am actually going out tonight out of the blue. wink wink


Look this is one of the most painful things that you will ever go through, so that is what it is. 

Stay strong ignore her and file, it is that simple...


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## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> You simply cannot believe anything she is telling you. You know that she is lying don't you?
> 
> Please tell me you know this, or are you falling for her lies?


Now Blues, you are not being fair to her by saying bear cant believe *anything* she is telling him. Let me help:

"So she comes home yesterday and says she doesn't want to talk to me." *Bear can believe that she doesn't want to talk to him.*

"She said the reason why she didn't want to tell me where she is going is she knew I'd get upset ..." *Bear can believe that is why she lied about where she was going.*

"... she was meeting the guy who was hired by her company to do some work." *It might be true that the OM was hired by her company to do some work. There is no chance however that she and the OM were doing any work for her company in a campground cabin overnight.*

"She again swore that nothing happened and that it is purely professional." *If Bear believes this lie, we have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell him.*

"She also went on saying that she needs me to give her space so she can think about us and that I keep failing at doing that." *Bear, in other threads on this board, when a wayward wife says this, the usual advice is to tell her that you will save her all the trouble of thinking about your marriage ("us"), you have already decided that it is over and there is no more "us" to think about. You will however give her all the space she wants when she moves out of your house by, say, next week. Finally, tell her that you needed her to be a faithful wife, but she just keeps failing at doing that.*

"I'm heading to an attorney today to get started at least." *Yes, it is time.*

"I do love her ..." *It is time to realize she is no longer deserving of that feeling.*

"I know I have not been the best of husbands ..." *Bear, you are the one to fix that before your next relationship. In the meantime, be the best of fathers if you can. Your kids will be hurting.*

"... the pain is almost insurmountable." *I can only imagine. I hope Blues and others on here can help you with this.*


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## bear-man

Just left the lawyer. He said that pretty much even if I have proof it really doesn't matter. Based on the stuff I told him, he thinks that she's cheating. He also said that I get half of her 401k. I guess that's a good thing for all the f****** hard work and times that I had to stay with the kids home while she's away traveling. I don't know why but I feel a little bit better. I also would love to catch her in the act because I just want


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## Marc878

If you haven't move her stuff out of your bedroom.


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## BarbedFenceRider

Don't go with the mental movies. And the pain shopping. Just move on. Even if it's in your head. Thats why the 180 works so well....
Do go looking to catch them....Hell, you already did! Just cut the cancer and live well. It will take some time, but your kids with be better for it, and you will find more "like minded" people / partners to enjoy life with.


" My gut keeps giving me warnings."....LISTEN TO THIS!!!! IT WILL NOT FAIL YOU>>>>>>


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## skerzoid

bear-man said:


> Just left the lawyer. He said that pretty much even if I have proof it really doesn't matter. Based on the stuff I told him, he thinks that she's cheating. He also said that I get half of her 401k. I guess that's a good thing for all the f****** hard work and times that I had to stay with the kids home while she's away traveling. I don't know why but I feel a little bit better. I also would love to catch her in the act because I just want


Bear-Man:

All the talk of strategy usually doesn't matter in the end. The scales of justice usually try to *split down the middle*.

1. *Forget about the detective work*. Once a woman switches loyalties, it is almost always over. Divorce this traitor. 

2. *She shows no remorse*. Divorce this traitor.

3. *She shacked up and you know it*. Divorce this traitor.

4. *Expose to all*. Divorce this lying traitor.

5. *Get yourself checked for STD's.* Adulterers many times pick up diseases. She is endangering you and your family's health. Divorce her and get it over with. She is a traitor.

6. *Keep a VAR on you at all times*. She will try to do something to get you out of the house. She is a traitor.

7. *Keep up with the 180*. As little communication as possible with a liar and a traitor.

8. *You are doing great! * The grizzly just took a bite out of her lying, betraying, adulterous butt. Keep chewing.>


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## jlg07

If you really have to catch her and get proof, I think the only option you have here is to get a PI on the case.
You won't be able to get to anything of hers (phone/pc, etc.) that would tell you anything now that she knows you are on to her...


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## WorkingWife

bear-man said:


> I am trying. It is one of the hardest things I have ever endured to be honest. Doing the 180 for sure!! I am actually going out tonight out of the blue. wink wink


Good for you. It will get easier and easier and some day this will all be a memory. Hang in there.


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## Stormguy2018

bear-man said:


> Just left the lawyer. He said that pretty much even if I have proof it really doesn't matter. Based on the stuff I told him, he thinks that she's cheating. He also said that I get half of her 401k. I guess that's a good thing for all the f****** hard work and times that I had to stay with the kids home while she's away traveling. I don't know why but I feel a little bit better. I also would love to catch her in the act because I just want


Trust your gut. She's cheating. All the flags are up and flying.


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## personofinterest

Bear-man, leaving someone you love is HARD for a good man (or woman). Even if they are no longer the person you fell in love with, even if they are doing terrible things. When someone is capable of commitment and deep love, ending it is always a struggle. The fact that this is not an easy or flip decision for you means that you are a good man.

However....that does NOT mean a good man has to stay. You have to be good to YOURSELF too. And to your kids. And many times being good to yourself and your kids means being AWAY from the toxic spouse (and a cheating spouse is absolutely a toxic spouse).

I have respect for a man who struggles and wrestles with leaving much more than for a man who say's "Humph, a month without sex/she said hey to a guy one too many times? I'm out!" But when a wife has announced she's abated her vows by cheating....there's really no reason to stay unless she has immediate and profound remorse.


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## Edmund

bear-man said:


> Just left the lawyer. He said that pretty much even if I have proof it really doesn't matter. Based on the stuff I told him, he thinks that she's cheating. He also said that I get half of her 401k. I guess that's a good thing for all the f****** hard work and times that I had to stay with the kids home while she's away traveling. I don't know why but I feel a little bit better. I also would love to catch her in the act because I just want


Wonder if she shot him before he could finish the last sentence.


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## skerzoid

Bear-man

How about throwing a growl our way about your situation.


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## bear-man

Hey guys!

Hope all is good. Here is an update. Wife no longer wants us to live together. Told her that I am not leaving the house which caught her of surprise. She thought that I would just cave in and say that I will leave. I spoke to another lawyer and I actually like her better than the 1st one. She actually took the time and explained everything to me. She said that my wife will be paying me a good chunk of money every month and that once she sees that, she will realize how big of a mistake she made. Lawyer said that it is not fair to me that I was home with the kids all the time, taking care of them, taking to sports activities and more, while she is building her career. I think I will get custody based on that and child support as well. I really don't want it to come to this and offered her many chances to come clean but she failed. I hope whoever this guy is that he is worth all of this and that he realizes what mess he is getting into. 

I am about to file and ain't getting out the house .


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## BluesPower

bear-man said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Hope all is good. Here is an update. Wife no longer wants us to live together. Told her that I am not leaving the house which caught her of surprise. She thought that I would just cave in and say that I will leave. I spoke to another lawyer and I actually like her better than the 1st one. She actually took the time and explained everything to me. She said that my wife will be paying me a good chunk of money every month and that once she sees that, she will realize how big of a mistake she made. Lawyer said that it is not fair to me that I was home with the kids all the time, taking care of them, taking to sports activities and more, while she is building her career. I think I will get custody based on that and child support as well. I really don't want it to come to this and offered her many chances to come clean but she failed. I hope whoever this guy is that he is worth all of this and that he realizes what mess he is getting into.
> 
> I am about to file and ain't getting out the house .


Good luck, sounds like you got your balls back, good for you...


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## Lostinthought61

While i am sadden it has come to this...it looks like your wife reap what she sowed...you are entitled to your shares and trust me if the roles were reversed she would certainly go after you. you need this to take care of yourself and the kids. Karma Sucks


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## bear-man

Lostinthought61 said:


> While i am sadden it has come to this...it looks like your wife reap what she sowed...you are entitled to your shares and trust me if the roles were reversed she would certainly go after you. you need this to take care of yourself and the kids. Karma Sucks


I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean. Her search history on Google shows that she is also looking at lawyers. What actually is crazy is that she has a trip today which I am sure she will be meeting the other man. I kinda know that because she was searching for airline tickets for him to come see her. God. It is crazy how fast people change. Once I file, there is no taking back.


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## 3Xnocharm

Good for you! I am sorry you are having to deal with all this, but be proud of yourself for standing your ground.


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## Lostinthought61

bear-man said:


> I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean. Her search history on Google shows that she is also looking at lawyers. What actually is crazy is that she has a trip today which I am sure she will be meeting the other man. I kinda know that because she was searching for airline tickets for him to come see her. God. It is crazy how fast people change. Once I file, there is no taking back.


if she is paying for him to fly is important to keep track of so you might need in in the divorce save everything....

you might want to remind her that she better watch out for private investigators where she is going...just to tell her to make her paranoid....time to mess with her mind. it won't stop her but it will make her nervous.


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## bear-man

Lostinthought61 said:


> if she is paying for him to fly is important to keep track of so you might need in in the divorce save everything....
> 
> you might want to remind her that she better watch out for private investigators where she is going...just to tell her to make her paranoid....time to mess with her mind. it won't stop her but it will make her nervous.


The way I see it now is that she already betrayed me and she knows it. Whatever she does next isn't going to affect the damage that has already been done. It's her decision to do what she is doing and she should assume all the crap that will come with it. I am going to only worry about I can control and about the kiddos.


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## Lila

@bear-man, i am very sorry to hear that you in a divorce situation. I empathize with you as I too am going throuh something similar with a son your oldest son's age.

I do not know which state you live in nor am I an attorney but the vast majority of divorces are equitable. That means that the process is sometimes as simple as splitting the assets and debts 50/50. 

Alimony is practically nil in cases like yours (and mine for that matter) where both parties are higher income earners. Judges typically laugh at anyone who makes 6 figures asking for alimony.

Unless your wife is abusive to the children, a drug addict, or a neglectful parent, the reality is she'll be getting 50% custody. Assuming 50/50 custody, you are entitled to some child support based on the disparity in your incomes. If you want to know how much child custody is required by law, google "child support calculator" for your state. It takes into account incomes, who pays for medical insurance, and few other odds and ends. Most lawyers will do this on your behalf as soon as you file for divorce.

All this to say avoid shark attorneys. These are lawyers who will use your emotions to make an extra buck. Anyone who tells you that with a 40K difference in income that "she will be paying you a huge chunk of change each month" is a shark attorney. I know. My family is full of them. You should be doing your own research with regards to the divorce laws in your state. Do not let the shark attorneys use your emotions to rile you into a contentious divorce, one that will drag out for months and months and cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

I know it is difficult to do (TRUST ME) but get your divorce done expeditiously with the least amount of acrimony that you can muster. You, your kids, and your financial well being will be better off for it. You might get lucky like me. I struck while he was basking in the Golden *****. I ended up with a much better settlement than I would have had otherwise.


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## wilson

bear-man said:


> I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean.


A lot of times when kids are involved, I think reconciliation is worth a shot. But, I'm sorry to say, I think you both will be better off divorced. Your marriage had some serious issues and you both had some major part in that. It will be a monumental task to take your relationship and turn it into a quality, life-long marriage. Both of you would have to change so much, I'm not sure you'd recognize each other when it was all done. I think the best chance for happiness for both of you is to go on your own path and find the people who are right for you.

I worry your heart cares too much and will be vulnerable through this process. One thing that commonly happens is that she starts to turn on the charm, you get under her spell, and you let her have whatever she wants. If you're vulnerable to that, you need to take steps so that it doesn't happen to you.


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## turnera

bear-man said:


> I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean. Her search history on Google shows that she is also looking at lawyers. What actually is crazy is that she has a trip today which I am sure she will be meeting the other man. I kinda know that because she was searching for airline tickets for him to come see her. God. It is crazy how fast people change. Once I file, there is no taking back.


Do you need any kind of evidence to make sure you get the house and kids and money? If so, take screenshots of her search history, maybe even hire a PI to get proof. But if not, just stay cool. Happy that you've chosen this path; I know it sucks, but holding on to your principles is so much more important for you, in the long run.


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## Chaparral

You need to be ready to expose them to both families and friends. Typically, she is start a campaign to save her reputation by throwing you under the bus. Unfortunately, the one who tells the story first is most likely to be believed for a long while. They often even claim the betrayed spouse is the one that was cheating, abusive and totally dishonest..

I would also be going back through older records and devices to see if she hasn’t been doing this longer than you suspect with more than one man. Your up and down marriage may point to multiple affairs. 

DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF. She had other options besides doing the worst thing she could do to her family. But that’s typical of a self centered cheater.

Have your lawyer investigate her boyfriend to.

Good luck to you and your kids.


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## Beach123

bear-man said:


> I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean. Her search history on Google shows that she is also looking at lawyers. What actually is crazy is that she has a trip today which I am sure she will be meeting the other man. I kinda know that because she was searching for airline tickets for him to come see her. God. It is crazy how fast people change. Once I file, there is no taking back.


Then file!

There's no sense in continuing with any wife that's plotting and planning to be with her OM - EVER!

She's not in this marriage - why should you be in it? I'd get it finalized asap.


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## 2ntnuf

bear-man said:


> I agree. I still love her and might be willing to give her another shot but she has to come clean. Her search history on Google shows that she is also looking at lawyers. What actually is crazy is that she has a trip today which I am sure she will be meeting the other man. I kinda know that because she was searching for airline tickets for him to come see her. God. *It is crazy how fast people change. *Once I file, there is no taking back.


The truth is, she's been thinking about this a long time. It took time for her to convince herself. It took time to find someone she thought was right for her. She has been thinking, justifying, searching and testing the waters for a long time. She likely only cheated on you when she was sure and that may have been some time ago. She knows how to lie to you, so you believe her. 

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be hurtful. It is possible she just turned on a dime. It's highly unlikely. 

You are doing well. Please continue and who knows what will happen? You can't take any chances, though. Keep heading toward divorce and covering you butt as best you can. It may be helpful to have proof, when you go for full custody. It might not be admissible, but that doesn't mean it won't help. Ask your attorney about it. Don't remember reading what she said or if you asked. Glad you got someone other than that guy. He was probably afraid to attack a woman and look bad, which would cause him to lose business.


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## Marc878

Like I said. Alimony is just a straight mathematical equation. Child custody will be a minimum50/50 maybe more for you if you have documented proof of how much you keep them. Not to mention child support!!!!!

There's a myth that they always come back. They don't. You'd be better of doing a hard 180 no contact.

She's been screwing her boyfriend for awhile now. Let him have her.

Ask yourself why you'd want that back now anyway?

Stay strong and file. It's your best path forward.

Don't live on hopium and wishful thinking. That will get you nothing.


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## Edmund

Well, I wonder what happened with the @bear-man. Hope he eventually tells us how it turned out. As has been said, you never appreciate what you've got 'til it's gone.


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## Beach123

Edmund said:


> Well, I wonder what happened with the @bear-man. Hope he eventually tells us how it turned out. As has been said, you never appreciate what you've got 'til it's gone.


Or better yet - I never felt so free until I let go of what was dragging me down!


I too, wonder what happened when she took that trip with her OM.


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