# The Infinity Hole



## Ginjavanish (Jul 7, 2021)

I'm going to keep this short.

I guess what I'm seeking is either validation or condemnation, rather than specific advice. 

Been married 15 years, first 10 were great, but since my wife started working, I think we average 1 pity **** every 3 months.

Yes, she's depressed/anxious. Yes we talked about it, yes I believe I'm doing everything I can to make it better.

I stopped bringing it up because of how angry she would get. All that got me was a load of resentment towards her, souring the relationship. After reading a few posts here, I thought maybe I needed to just man up, and weather her anger storm...same result.

I ignored all sexual anything for about a year, which she loved, so... another backfire.

Here's my question:

The solution I found was in myself. In a nutshell, I changed my reason for not approaching her about sex. 

She's in therapy, and I'm choosing to back away and give her space, give her time. I want her to get better, I want her to enjoy our time together, and once I started thinking of it as MY choice, it's taken the edge off...

But for how long? I've been in this hold pattern for a year now, and she still seems content to never have sex. 

I'm not getting any younger...

I can't decide if being supportive is just enabling, or if I'm actually doing some good.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

According to you it’s been 5 years already. It’s ridiculous that it has been this long. In my short handed guess I’m going to say that she knows your just not going to do anything about it and just keep riding the status quo. After that long you either blow it up or just shut up.


That’s my opinion


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Ginjavanish said:


> I've been in this hold pattern for a year now, and she still seems content to never have sex.


My take on it is you've been friend zoned and she likes maintaining the status quo.

Nothing you've done thus far appears to work.

Are you willing to walk away from what is basically a sexless marriage? Are you willing to suck it up and accept how it is? Your life. Your choice.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I think what you are infinity stones...sorry couldn’t it how my mind works....
But seriously on that topic you need to have a A frank conversation laying out that this marriage will include sex on a regular basis or we need to dissolve it and move on her own.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

5 years of a sexless marriage? Don’t you think it’s time for a new strategy? How is your fitness level and overall appearance? Have you let yourself go or become slovenly? 

It’s time for you to implement your exit strategy. Embark on a self improvement plan to up your game across the board. If she changes and wants to jump back into marriage as a loving wife, great; if not, you will be emotionally and physically ready for what life has for you without her.

Also just to be sure, you need to verify that someone else hasn’t been getting her best for the past few years. Sadly, we get so many threads that start off exactly like this and after probing questions and lots of denial from the husband, we learn that the low drive wife was actually just being faithful to her boyfriend by sexually cutting of the husband.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

5 years? You need to make a decision because she isn't going to change. Either accept what is and stay or leave and live your life.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

A spouse that is happy to not have sex for 5 years should be called an ex.

Even if you threaten to leave and that "improves" your sex life, you and her both know that it's intimacy under duress. 

For better or worse doesn't mean worse in perpetuity.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ginjavanish said:


> I'm going to keep this short.
> 
> I guess what I'm seeking is either validation or condemnation, rather than specific advice.
> 
> Been married 15 years, first 10 were great, *but since my wife started working, I think we average 1 pity **** every 3 months.*


I think it is pretty strange that you have tolerated a sexless (4 times/year about same as zero) existence in a "marriage" for 5 weeks let alone 5 years!?! Am surprised you remember how after three months. Am surprised that SHE would go without for that long. Personally wondering if she met her "soulmate" at work and doesn't want to cheat on him with you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Ginjavanish said:


> But for how long? I've been in this hold pattern for a year now, and she still seems content to never have sex.
> 
> I'm not getting any younger...


Buy The Dead Bedroom Fix by @dadstartingover and read or listen to it. See if anything in there sounds like your situation and then do what the text suggests.

You’re right, you’re not getting younger. Your wife is content with your sexual relationship now so unless you change something about the dynamics of your relationship it will stay as it is.

If her illness or the treatment are part of the problem she needs to discuss it with her physicians.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Cletus said:


> A spouse that is happy to not have sex for 5 years should be called an ex.


Standing applauses.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

she's depressed/anxious. but yet has a very good job ,
looks like she has got you to put a **** cage on yourself and hand her the key by acting the poor depressed/anxious. card


Ginjavanish said:


> wife went to medical school.


if she is a fully trained doctor now and a person came to her with this story , and the woman told her that she has not had sex with a year what would she say to that woman

your wife if not a dr she when to medical school , so she knows more than most of us on both sides of the fence 
because if you went to her and told her your feelings and that you have not had sex is she not willing to treat you or if it was I with the same thing ,

your are angry in what you have posted and quite right
if my wife forced me into chastity I would be looking for ways out ,
""Been married 15 years, first 10 were great, but since my wife started working"" I am adding two and two and I might be coming up with 6


Ginjavanish said:


> This one is rough...
> 
> I agreed to be a stay at home dad to take care of our daughter while my wife went to medical school.
> 
> ...


 you need to get back to work I would say the same thing to any woman here your child is going to school and old enough to go to care after school before you pick her up 
get a job and then the the feck out of it , this woman knows she has put your **** into a invisible chastity cage for men and she holds the key


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

If she is in therapy, give it another 6 months. If things don't improve, pack your bag. There's nothing else you can do about it. Of course, people might say that she has mental issues and therefore you are abandoning your wife in time of need, but you only know how bad her issues are. If she is functioning well, you have your answer.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ginjavanish said:


> But for how long? I've been in this hold pattern for a year now, and she still seems content to never have sex.


The ultimate question is can the therapist determine if she has a sexual aversion (perhaps this is why she gets angry when you bring it up) as a result of some past trauma, or does she inherently have little or no ability to enjoy sex. The second of which likely has no solution and therapy will not change a person into someone that they are not. A therapist can only help someone be more confident about who they already are. 

...in my opinion! 

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In another reply the OP talks about his wife going to medical school while he is a stay at home dad. He ultimate makes things her responsibility like washing dishes, walking the dog, and picking up after the dog to which he will allow her to completely fail at these things:



Ginjavanish said:


> My wife didn't realize I was serious until the night we ate chicken alfredo off of paper towels, because the dishes were all dirty.
> 
> Or when her best friend came to visit and stepped in a dog turd.


In my house we all take turns washing the dishes. No one person is solely responsible. We have dogs and we all work with them to maintain a regular schedule. The dogs poop in the morning just after being fed and sometimes in the evening before going to bed. During these two times they always have a routine of being out in the backyard for about an hour whereas they spend the rest of the day in doors. No one visits the house by coming into our home from the back yard and the dogs have only ever had one accident in the house (because one was sick at the time). 

I'm not judging the OP because to each their own. I'm just pointing that there are different philosophies about housework. When the female is a stay at home mom, many working dads will help out around the house but I've never known any working dads that are solely responsible for dirty dishes and picking up dog poo from around the house.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

badsanta said:


> The ultimate question is can the therapist determine if she has a sexual aversion (perhaps this is why she gets angry when you bring it up) as a result of some past trauma, or does she inherently have little or no ability to enjoy sex. The second of which likely has no solution and therapy will not change a person into someone that they are not. A therapist can only help someone be more confident about who they already are.
> 
> ...in my opinion!
> 
> Badsanta


I agree with the above, but I get the feeling that we tend to underestimate the consequences of depression/anxiety on these boards - a lot.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why are you continuing to allow her to be comfortable in the midst of your own discomfort?

There are things you can do that don't include divorce. However, it also requires you to not only deal with her ager towards you, but to also be strong enough to tell her "no".

Remember, her bellwether for sex is whether or not she feels like it. You could simply...embrace that position, whether it is listening to her about her day, squishing a spider, or opening the pickle jar.

"I don't really feel like it."

Look, man. A sexless marriage brought me to TAM. Nothing...and I mean NOTHING worked until I figured out that choosing whether to meet a spouses needs was not an option solely for her.

This isn't to say I was prepared to divorce her, but I was more than willing to make our relationship so uncomfortable that she might leave. This left her a simple option: either have a warm, MUTUALLY FULFILLING marriage, or one where out partner did not matter.

She fought like hell to maintain how it was, with her needs being a requirement and mine being optional. But I finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired, and put my foot down. 

Also, stop with the pity ****ing. This leads her to resent you for having to do it, but even more importantly, it leads you resenting yourself for accepting it. 

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I agree with the above, but I get the feeling that we tend to underestimate the consequences of depression/anxiety on these board - a lot.


This is fair. There is a reason that they say mental illness is something the entire family suffers with.

That said, we all have our demons to deal with. Some better...some worse. We have a choice what we will allow.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> This is fair. There is a reason that they say mental illness is something the entire family suffers with.
> 
> That said, we all have our demons to deal with. Some better...some worse. We have a choice what we will allow.


I agree, but she is in therapy. It can take a long time, so it's really up to the OP to decide how long he is going to "allow" this situation to last. From what he is saying, I get the feeling he is dismissing his wife's issues. I certainly dismissed my wife's. We don't really know the extent of the OP's wife issues. Having been through all this, I would say it's not easy to be in such a situation and it will be difficult to leave a vulnerable person. That said, you only live once and I would encourage the OP to take all the necessary steps if his life turns into hell.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I agree, but she is in therapy. It can take a long time, so it's really up to the OP to decide how long he is going to "allow" this situation to last. From what he is saying, I get the feeling he is dismissing his wife's issues. I certainly dismissed my wife's. We don't really know the extent of the OP's wife issues. Having been through all this, I would say it's not easy to be in such a situation and it will be difficult to leave a vulnerable person. That said, you only live once and I would encourage the OP to take all the necessary steps if his life turns into hell.


There is certainly room for a discussion about dismissal of her issues. 

That said, this can quickly become a "chicken or the egg" type of discussion.

Lastly, if my wife were to reduce our sex life to a pity **** every three months, and played the gaslighting or guilting game that is occurring with the OP, I would have difficulty finding ****s to give over her anxiety and depression. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> If her illness or the treatment are part of the problem she needs to discuss it with her physicians.


This. 

I would be incredibly patient with someone who acknowledged that a healthy sex life is important, and was actively working to improve. Incredibly patient.

But shaming and gaslighting? That leads to the thermostat being set somewhere south of absolute zero.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I agree, but she is in therapy. It can take a long time, so it's really up to the OP to decide how long he is going to "allow" this situation to last. From what he is saying, I get the feeling he is dismissing his wife's issues. I certainly dismissed my wife's. We don't really know the extent of the OP's wife issues. Having been through all this, I would say it's not easy to be in such a situation and it will be difficult to leave a vulnerable person. That said, you only live once and I would encourage the OP to take all the necessary steps if his life turns into hell.


A question that I wonder about is if the OP also goes to therapy or does he just allow his wife to go at this alone? While he may not be invited to join a mostly one-on-one session format, he very well could ask to see the same therapist for some one-on-one work. At a minimum this would give the therapist a broader perspective and may help to identify some dynamics that need to be addressed.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

What is next in your life has to be better than now.

Now, you aren't getting any intimacy, while some tomorrow, you will get out, then get off.

Getting off, first requires stepping permanently away from her ice box.

If not, intimacy must not really be important to you, complaining about it seems to take preference.



_Lilith-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

There is no better if you better it not.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Read this: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> If she is in therapy, give it another 6 months. If things don't improve, pack your bag. There's nothing else you can do about it. Of course, people might say that she has mental issues and therefore you are abandoning your wife in time of need, but you only know how bad her issues are. If she is functioning well, you have your answer.


she is in therapy? Maybe you can get an appointment with the same therapist, and explain that there is no sex life and you are thinking of divorce? maybe part of the therapy SHOULD BE her getting her sex life back, and the therapist does not know there is zero sex back at home


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> she is in therapy? Maybe you can get an appointment with the same therapist, and explain that there is no sex life and you are thinking of divorce? maybe part of the therapy SHOULD BE her getting her sex life back, and the therapist does not know there is zero sex back at home


If she is taking anti-depressants, it's very likely that her libido will be next to zero. That would impact enormously on their sex life. I had to schedule sex with my wife, because she had to take a "weekend holiday" from them in order to have a minimum of libido or have an orgasm, which was optional, but was important to her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Get a job. You know that being the breadwinner is hard on a person so just as she shares in the upkeep of the home, you share in bringing home the bacon. Your child is probably in school by now.

She may find you attractive, again.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Get a job. You know that being the breadwinner is hard on a person so just as she shares in the upkeep of the home, you share in bringing home the bacon. Your child is probably in school by now.
> 
> She may find you attractive, again.


lol... always to the point. I do agree that there is some kind of disconnection there too.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

What do you mean about this holding pattern? Does that mean you haven’t had sex once? Or it’s still once every 3 months? 

Does this mean you stopped initiating sex?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> If she is taking anti-depressants, it's very likely that her libido will be next to zero. That would impact enormously on their sex life. I had to schedule sex with my wife, because she had to take a "weekend holiday" from them in order to have a minimum of libido or have an orgasm, which was optional, but was important to her.


Just read interactions on wife's HRT meds, said adding some antidepressants would destroy libido. Since wife is most undepressed person have ever known, isnt a problem here. 

Maybe OP's wife needs competent MD review her meds for unintended bad effects.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Just read interactions on wife's HRT meds, said adding some antidepressants would destroy libido. Since wife is most undepressed person have ever known, isnt a problem here.
> 
> Maybe OP's wife needs competent MD review her meds for unintended bad effects.


Does you wife take anti-depressants? I don't quite understand.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

SAHD? For years? I know those who bought into the whole social engineering experiment of the last 60 years think that women are accepting of being the bread winner but in real life, I see only a few outliers that are able to pull it off for more than season or two before the wife starts to lose respect for the husband. Even after it was the wife’s idea in the first place. 

And please don’t equate with a SAHM. Most men that can pull it off take great pride in supporting their family. While most women will resent and even be embarrassed about it. Usually the guys that these wives end up betraying their husband with are their boss or someone of higher social status.

So you need to get your but back to work. And until you do find a job, you better start pulling your weight at home. Your wife is financially carrying the family on her back, so you can at the very least take turns with the dishes and the dog. Once you get back to work, her stress will go down and I’d bet my next mortgage payment that the muffin shop will reopen, unless it’s been open all along for another customer.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Does you wife take anti-depressants? I don't quite understand.


No she does not! She is about most cheerful person have ever known. But I was reading intetactions of hrt she has taken for years and mention was made of antidepressant intetactions. I was talking a out OPs wife. Not mine


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> No she does not! She is about most cheerful person have ever known. But I was reading intetactions of hrt she has taken for years and mention was made of antidepressant intetactions. I was talking a out OPs wife. Not mine


Ok... mine was just theory, because we don't know if she takes them.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> If she is in therapy, give it another 6 months. If things don't improve, pack your bag. There's nothing else you can do about it. Of course, people might say that she has mental issues and therefore *you are abandoning your wife in time of need*, but you only know how bad her issues are. If she is functioning well, you have your answer.


I would counter that she left him in his time of need 5 years ago


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snerg said:


> I would counter that she left him in his time of need 5 years ago


His fault... he stopped trying and it backfired... never do that!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ginjavanish said:


> I'm going to keep this short.
> 
> I guess what I'm seeking is either validation or condemnation, rather than specific advice.
> 
> ...


In a way, this is kind of what I am at the moment as well. 

How long do I allow myself to be on fire and burn up so she doesn't get cold??


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