# Toxic marriage?



## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

Comments needed. Hard to give an accurate description because of issues that have been going on for years - so this is longer than I wanted. Quick background: 2nd marriage for both. No children together. “Forgotten” anniversaries, birthdays, etc. Silent treatment while on vacations, over holidays and other special occasions. Snipes about weight, age, and interests. Promises to complete projects but always some reason can’t be done. No intimacy - touching, hugs, etc. which he blames on a 15 lb weight gain for me. Recently talked about moving to different state. Mentioned that he could see himself living alone - said he thought I would rather live with my adult kids - which I never said. Currently one son and new wife are staying here temporarily while he finishes school. 

Here is latest: another adult child and grandchildren coming for visit. Two days before I woke early to clean refrigerator. When he got up, I could tell he was irritated by actions. I thought, oh oh - here we go again. So I said nothing. Then he said -“ throwing all this out just so you can buy new.” I explained (calmly) that what I was throwing out was expired and in some cases a few years old. I asked what I had done to make him angry. He said “you are spending all my retirement money. You move my things. I have no space in this house.” I did move a stack of mail and newspapers to clean and failed to put them back where they had been. BTW - we are older and both still work and I currently have a higher paying job. 

By this time, I was irritated - especially after the discussion about him living alone - and I said “if I irritate you so much, and spend all your money and you hate it here, then perhaps you should leave.” First time I have EVER said anything like that. His response, “that is what I intend to do by moving to ____.” And he walked away. 

I did not want my kids visit ruined, so I followed him to ask what he meant and he absolutely would not talk. I know better than to keep hounding, so I finished what I was doing and wrote a short note saying simply that if that is the way he felt, I was not bluffing or joking - he should leave and do it now. No response. Two days later, kids coming in. I texted him “What are your plans?” No response. 

That was a week ago. Kids are here. I am trying to keep things normal, but he is not talking to me and frankly I have nothing to say to him. My plan is to wait out this visit and then push it a little more. This has been a cycle that we are on and it has been getting much worse over the last 4-5 years. I truly feel like I am done. He will not go to counseling. He has no desire to read or learn about anything that may help. This is only a small example of how things are. 

We have a vacation planned next month. I have no intention of going. Am I crazy for suggesting he should go ahead and leave. Am I missing something? I don’t think he intends to leave until HE is ready. It seems like we are in a toxic cycle and I want it to end.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long have the two of you been married?

No you are not crazy telling him that he can leave.

You might want to offer a suggestion that either he talk to you and the two of you work on fixing things, or he has to leave.

You are leaving him to make all the decisions. If you press the topic and tell him that you are done if he will not work on things, you might get him pay attention.

Have you gone to counseling for yourself? You might want to consider that.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Ele . . . we have been married 20 years. The silent treatment and sulking started 8 months after we were married. I thought at the time that this was going to be a short marriage but I kept working at it . . .

The words you used "I am done" are exactly how I started my note since he would not talk. He has always had passive aggressive tendancies but i wonder if there isn't more there. 

Over the last few years, because of the routine silent treatment, I have branched out an do lots of civic and volunteer work. I needed to know that I had something to contribute. I have no desire for any other relationship - even if this marriage does not survive. I have no desire to put myself in this position again. Counseling for me might be a good idea.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It sounds like he's just not willing to work on anything. All you can do is work on yourself. And if that's leading you away from him than I guess that's what will happen.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you should make the decision for yourself about what you want. Sit down and decide if you want to remain married, or proceed with divorce. Consider what will happen either way and which path will be better for you. 

You don't have to leave the decision for him to make or not make. He has obviously made it clear that he no longer wants to be in the marriage. For him he could drag it out for ages to try and make you suffer.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

breeze said:


> I think you should make the decision for yourself about what you want. Sit down and decide if you want to remain married, or proceed with divorce. Consider what will happen either way and which path will be better for you.
> 
> You don't have to leave the decision for him to make or not make. He has obviously made it clear that he no longer wants to be in the marriage. For him he could drag it out for ages to try and make you suffer.


This. 

See an attorney. Find out where things stand legally and financially. It all may be easier than you think. 

My ex did the same thing....it was very frustrating not to talk. I did go to marriage counseling during that time, by myself because he wouldn't go. I figure I TRIED everything I could think of to work on the relationship....but you just can't do it alone. 

Eventually, after 23 years he "snuck" out. He was gone a few days before I figured out that he was GONE. Kind of funny now, but just confusing and frustrating back then. And when talking to him later, he said he felt neglected. He wouldn't participate with the marriage, the family, the household, etc.... and he felt neglected? 

Just know...... the PEACE is amazing!!! Being DONE and moving on ..... amazing. Taking control of your life.....priceless.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Sorry you are here.

All talk & no action. Playing "geographics" by talking about moving to another state.....thinks his life would be better....he sounds depressed too but only a professional can dx.

His surly, critical attitude sucks the life right out of you right?

I think you would benefit with some individual counseling. Not that you need it but it's not easy to leave such a long marriage should you decide to.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

So you have been putting up with this for almost 20 years?

How in the world?

Seems like you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself "how did I allow this to happen and stuck around for SO long".

Everything you said, does NOT sound like marriage to me. I have a feeling deep inside you know you deserve WAY better than that.

I would've been out exactly 10-12 months into marriage.....and never look back.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm guessing the OP stuck around because she wanted some family security when her children were younger. Just a guess.

Honestly, you are one tough cookie. To put up with that, and keep your kids happy. Hats off to you, sister.

I think you should get some counseling as well. You deserve way better than what you got all these years. And do not wait on him to make a move. You do it!


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

Why did I stay? Partly financial, partly stability, but mostly because I really loved the guy. My reality check was when I told him - after a particularly good few months - that I thought he was my best friend and soul mate. That was met with a blank stare and him saying "whatever that is . . ." I think I realized at that moment that staying together was going to be really hard work. I also think that is when I just decided that, rather than staying home, night after night and watching mindless TV - I needed to know that I could make a significant contribution. The odd thing is the more I am acknowledged for things the less he has to say to me. I know that it may be hard for his ego but he has made his choices.


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Katiebird said:


> Quick background: “Forgotten” anniversaries, birthdays, etc.
> 
> Silent treatment while on vacations, over holidays and other special occasions.
> 
> ...


The inherent limitations of these forums is only getting one side of the story.

Would be interesting to hear his response to these things.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

Good luck. That is the problem. There is no response. There are sometimes accusations - kind of take a jab and then retreat. He would say that he doesn't participate in family conversations - at any time, because no one specifically "invites" him to join. He would say that I am a control freak - yes I have heard that. Yet he is the one who has a vehicle that I must ask permission to drive and 90% of the time, that permission is denied and the key is hidden. He obviously thinks I spend too much money - which may be true - but it is usually on grandkids. He has purchased three new vehicles (including the one I can't drive without permission) in 10 years for cash and he holds a half interest in an airplane he never flies. 

I am sure that he would say that I don't respect him. I used to think he walked on water - and would frequently tell him so. But frankly when you never hear please or thank you - for anything - only criticism, it wears on you. When you hear promises and have literally thousands of dollars of items that have been purchased with the promise of installation, fixing, etc. but now just lie collecting dust . . you start losing respect along with patience - particularly when you are accused of wasting money when you clean out the fridge. 

Yes, there are two sides to my story I am sure. I would love to get to the other side as well . . .


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Katiebird said:


> Good luck. That is the problem. There is no response.


Is there a history of criticism from both sides? 

Men clam up for several reasons, usually not to give darling wife ammunition.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

The history of criticism and not being able to say what he felt came from his parents. I realize that and I have really tried not to be hyper critical. I try to not to nag about things that have not been done. When I bring the main things up that need to be done - once or maybe twice a year - I am accused of being pushy and demanding.

I will say that I am not as complementary toward him as I used to be, because, as I said, it is not reciprocated.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

*Update*: H says he wants to work on things.[SURPRISE!] I have heard that before. Actions speak louder than promises. We will see.

We were supposed to leave on a vacation to visit his family in a couple weeks. I told him that he needs to go by himself - to give him some time to think about what life without me would be like & to give me time to think. He says he really wants me to go. The problem is that vacations seem to be a trigger for lousy behavior. The kicker is that I am the planner and I am wondering if he will be able to negotiate travel through a large metro area that he is unfamiliar with along with driving through a couple of states, without me. Frankly, it has me a little worried. So - I end up feeling guilty and wondering if I should go. Is that a co-dependency thing?

I broke down and talked with a couple friends - I am usually a very private person - so very hard. One of them wondered about depression - as another poster mentioned. I think I need to talk to him about that - but not sure how to approach it. i am going to suggest a physical to rule out any physical causes for increasing anger. But he will be charming and no physician will see anything but a real nice guy. 

Both friends said I should *not* go on vacation. The only way they thought might work is to tell him he had to go out of his way to be kind every single day - and if he wasn't - I could leave and fly home on his dime and he could face moving out when he returned. Don't know if that would work. 

I just know that I can't keep going on the way we are. Tonight he was pleasant and shared in the conversation. 180 degrees from when my family was here. Kind of p*$$#@ me off in a way. Why did he have to be irritable and pout when my grandkids were here. This stuff makes me crazy.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Katiebird said:


> *Update*: H says he wants to work on things.[SURPRISE!] I have heard that before. Actions speak louder than promises. We will see.
> 
> We were supposed to leave on a vacation to visit his family in a couple weeks. I told him that he needs to go by himself - to give him some time to think about what life without me would be like & to give me time to think. He says he really wants me to go. The problem is that vacations seem to be a trigger for lousy behavior. The kicker is that I am the planner and I am wondering if he will be able to negotiate travel through a large metro area that he is unfamiliar with along with driving through a couple of states, without me. Frankly, it has me a little worried. So - I end up feeling guilty and wondering if I should go. Is that a co-dependency thing?
> 
> ...


My suggestion? (being someone who has been here, done this, got the tshirt) GO on the vacation. Tell yourself that if he goes into his usual jackass vacation behavior, that you are done, and then follow through and divorce him. You KNOW these trips trigger this, so let it be your out. Basically let him hang himself. If he acts decently, then tell yourself to give him another three months. That way, you can end it knowing you tried everything you could. 

I can tell you how its going to go...he will be back to his usual behavior within a couple of weeks, if he behaves on the trip. I know this story.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

He needs some time alone to think about his behavior and what he wants. This is time to set boundaries and expectations letting him know where the lines are drawn..........then send him on his way to let it marinade.


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

Still not planning to go. It is a tough decision for me. Wonder what he will tell his family? Probably that I had to work or that I was "too busy."


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## Franklin1969 (Dec 27, 2012)

So any update on your situation Katiebird?


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