# Young feminist Karen in training?



## Cromer

I had no intention of posting about this but dang, the more I think about it the more I am animated about the situation and wanted to vent. It's late, can't sleep. But it's so crazy that it's hard to believe it happened. Keep in mind we live in a college town.

For reference, I was raised as an old school Southern Gentleman by my grandmother. I mean in every way. I open doors, walk on the street side, pull out the chair, stand up when a woman approaches me when seated at a table, etc. It is basic to who I am as a man. My grandmother beat it into me that I don't know my own strength, so it is important that I show the women around me respect and to protect them. I make no apologies for who I am, and my wife loves that about me because it's not something she's had in her life before our relationship.

Today my wife and I decided to leave our cocoon of isolation and got out to eat at a new restaurant we've been wanting to try. Our state is completely open and businesses have reasonable rules. We have matching pirate masks which her students think are really cool LOL. Anyway, when leaving the restaurant, I opened the door for her, then the car door, asked if she was "all in", then closed it. I always do this for her.

Then this young lady, I estimate around 20 or so, walked up to me as I was getting into the car and straight out said “You’re such a misogynist” and was “disrespecting the woman you're with" and that “it's shameful that I am so public with my hatred of women”. I didn't know what to say other than "I'm not disrespecting anyone and I respect my wife." She then started on a tirade about the patriarchy and all kinds of other crap, getting into my face. My wife jumps out of the car and I thought there was going to be a genuine catfight. Finally, a woman who I think was her mother came over and dragged her way. Frankly, I was so stunned by it all I didn't know what to say or how to react. WTF is going on with these people? Why are so many people wanting to tell us how to live our lives? We were frankly shocked by the craziness. This is just a vent but what happened to let people live their lives in the way they want to live? Anyhow, not a big deal but not something that we expected during a simple dinner date.


----------



## Cletus

Cromer said:


> Anyway, when leaving the restaurant, I opened the door for her, then the car door, asked if she was "all in", then closed it. I always do this for her.


Ok, I was with you until this, you monster.


----------



## farsidejunky

It's the modern version of the counter culture, @Cromer. The patriarchy, systemic racism, and misogyny are the flavors of today.

Not to suggest the aforementioned don't exist to a greater or lesser degree, but the vitriol has seemed to increase in the last few years, along with most other polarizing issues. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## frusdil

Cletus said:


> Ok, I was with you until this, you monster.


----------



## frusdil

I often wonder how these young peeps will ever find a lasting relationship with their "equality equality equality" bs. The fact is there are some glaring differences between men and women, and some things men do better and others women do. These differences can actually compliment each other, shocking I know 

I used to work with a twenty something who refused to throw her live in boyfriends washing in with hers because "I'm not his mother, I won't live under misogynistic tyranny". Ok, until her car needed something - fuel, tyres checked then it was "his job". Righto.

Really sad that she's so brainwashed.


----------



## sokillme

Cromer said:


> I had no intention of posting about this but dang, the more I think about it the more I am animated about the situation and wanted to vent. It's late, can't sleep. But it's so crazy that it's hard to believe it happened. Keep in mind we live in a college town.
> 
> For reference, I was raised as an old school Southern Gentleman by my grandmother. I mean in every way. I open doors, walk on the street side, pull out the chair, stand up when a woman approaches me when seated at a table, etc. It is basic to who I am as a man. My grandmother beat it into me that I don't know my own strength, so it is important that I show the women around me respect and to protect them. I make no apologies for who I am, and my wife loves that about me because it's not something she's had in her life before our relationship.
> 
> Today my wife and I decided to leave our cocoon of isolation and got out to eat at a new restaurant we've been wanting to try. Our state is completely open and businesses have reasonable rules. We have matching pirate masks which her students think are really cool LOL. Anyway, when leaving the restaurant, I opened the door for her, then the car door, asked if she was "all in", then closed it. I always do this for her.
> 
> Then this young lady, I estimate around 20 or so, walked up to me as I was getting into the car and straight out said “You’re such a misogynist” and was “disrespecting the woman you're with" and that “it's shameful that I am so public with my hatred of women”. I didn't know what to say other than "I'm not disrespecting anyone and I respect my wife." She then started on a tirade about the patriarchy and all kinds of other crap, getting into my face. My wife jumps out of the car and I thought there was going to be a genuine catfight. Finally, a woman who I think was her mother came over and dragged her way. Frankly, I was so stunned by it all I didn't know what to say or how to react. WTF is going on with these people? Why are so many people wanting to tell us how to live our lives? We were frankly shocked by the craziness. This is just a vent but what happened to let people live their lives in the way they want to live? Anyhow, not a big deal but not something that we expected during a simple dinner date.


It's a religion. This is their revival.

And that women probably has mental illness. In another time you would be a witch or something.


----------



## Luminous

Probably been binge watching videos in YouTube or has personal hang ups she can't face, has an axe to grind, and no self awareness whatsoever...

She should be counting her lucky stars that you were pleasant, it appears she has no idea that **** could turn south for her and her wayward mouth very quickly, and this woman who hates the so-called patriarchy, will be finding the nearest man to rescue her or to hide behind if she mouthed off to the wrong person. 

Or as people used to say, she is emotionally retarded.


----------



## Laurentium

Yeah, I wouldn't actually blame it on feminism. There are some people with a heap of anger inside them, and they'll find any cause that gives them a designated enemy to point it at. And then there are people who will lead a cause and exploit the angry. Look at any political party. 

That young woman has some serious issues. The thing she is complaining of, is the thing she is. That's so often the case.


----------



## ConanHub

Walking dead. The girl's mother obviously saved her life or your wife would have killed her.😉

Mrs. Conan would have definitely dropped the idiot.

I'm amazed at folks like that too.

Let's see little miss vinegar vagina try that act in Iran.


----------



## JustTheWife

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't actually blame it on feminism. There are some people with a heap of anger inside them, and they'll find any cause that gives them a designated enemy to point it at. And then there are people who will lead a cause and exploit the angry. Look at any political party.
> 
> That young woman has some serious issues. The thing she is complaining of, is the thing she is. That's so often the case.


What's the matter with you? A measured response?

We're supposed to get angry and use this as proof that "the other side" is destroying the country. Come on man. Get with the program!


----------



## Diana7

frusdil said:


> I often wonder how these young peeps will ever find a lasting relationship with their "equality equality equality" bs. The fact is there are some glaring differences between men and women, and some things men do better and others women do. These differences can actually compliment each other, shocking I know
> 
> I used to work with a twenty something who refused to throw her live in boyfriends washing in with hers because "I'm not his mother, I won't live under misogynistic tyranny". Ok, until her car needed something - fuel, tyres checked then it was "his job". Righto.
> 
> Really sad that she's so brainwashed.


Oh dear, I dont know whether to laugh or cry at that comment she made.🤣😥😣😯


----------



## Diana7

That young woman has BIG issues. Its bad enough to think those things, but to actually take your anger and bitterness out on an unsuspecting couple just going for a meal is something else. She is clearly brain washed by the woke brigade and extreme feminism. I mean, can these young people actually hear themselves and how how rediculous they sound?? Can you imagine her ever getting a boy friend?
I do wonder what I would have done in your wifes position, I hope I would have strongly stood up for you, and I am not one to suffer fools gladly. Sometimes situations like that are such a shock though that you dont think till later what you could or should have said/done. I would like to think as a Christian I would have said, God bless you and can I pray for/with you? That may have shut her up(or not), but I may well not have been so calm and kind. If anyone comes against my man I can be like a lioness.🦁(but not in a physically violent way.)
I love to see a man who is polite and gentlemanly. Keep up the good work..
I do wonder if secretly the little girl in her longs to be treated like that by men, with kindness and respect. Maybe she never had been treated that way. Who knows. Something in her sparked that extreme reaction.


----------



## C.C. says ...

She got mad because you opened the door for your wife? 

Hold up. Somebody’s gotta tell me right now. Where is this way of thinking coming from? Somebody’s putting it in her head. Is it the schools? The parents? Or is it some political thing?

Why would someone think this way? Where did it come from?! Why would someone be soooo angry about it that they’d stop a couple coming out of a restaurant just to scream at them about how awful it is to (be a gentleman)?! This has got me feeling all kinds of yuck.

Somebody help
me out.


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> That young woman has BIG issues. Its bad enough to think those things, but to actually take your anger and bitterness out on an unsuspecting couple just going for a meal is something else. She is clearly brain washed by the woke brigade and extreme feminism. Can you imagine her ever getting a boy friend?
> I do wonder what I would have done in your wifes position, I hope I would have strongly stood up for you, and I am not one to suffer fools gladly. Sometimes situations like that are such a shock though that you dont think till later what you could or should have said/done.
> I love to see a man who is polite and gentlemanly. Keep up the good work.
> I do wonder if secretly the little girl in her longs to be treated like that by men, with kindness and respect. Who knows.


I don't think this reflects on anyone but herself. Sometimes people can take ideas to extremes and perhaps someday she'll be embarrassed by this.

Attributing this individual behavior to some kind of "brigade", movement, race, or gender, etc is not helpful and only serves to divide us further. Social media is filled with these kinds of things that aim to show people how "they" are. The "they" are people on both sides of the culture war. White people being racist. Black people out to overthrow society. Etc, etc.


----------



## RandomDude

Cromer said:


> Then this young lady, I estimate around 20 or so, walked up to me as I was getting into the car and straight out said “You’re such a misogynist” and was “disrespecting the woman you're with" and that “it's shameful that I am so public with my hatred of women”. I didn't know what to say other than "I'm not disrespecting anyone and I respect my wife." She then started on a tirade about the patriarchy and all kinds of other crap, getting into my face. My wife jumps out of the car and I thought there was going to be a genuine catfight. Finally, a woman who I think was her mother came over and dragged her way. Frankly, I was so stunned by it all I didn't know what to say or how to react. WTF is going on with these people? Why are so many people wanting to tell us how to live our lives? We were frankly shocked by the craziness. This is just a vent but what happened to let people live their lives in the way they want to live? Anyhow, not a big deal but not something that we expected during a simple dinner date.


Wow, you acted with composure and was a gentleman right until the end. 

I would have simply gestured up yours with my arms, tell her to go get f---ed and drive past calling her a f---ing mole. If it escalated my partner would have made a salami out of her with the smacks.


----------



## Diana7

JustTheWife said:


> I don't think this reflects on anyone but herself. Sometimes people can take ideas to extremes and perhaps someday she'll be embarrassed by this.
> 
> Attributing this individual behavior to some kind of "brigade", movement, race, or gender, etc is not helpful and only serves to divide us further. Social media is filled with these kinds of things that aim to show people how "they" are. The "they" are people on both sides of the culture war. White people being racist. Black people out to overthrow society. Etc, etc.


Yes but many young people do spend so much time on social media and the like, and they will naturally spend most time with people and on sites that promote their way of thinking. I suppose its like a brain washing of sorts. The same way that young people can be brain washed to become terroroists. I see extreme feminism as a sort of terrorism.


----------



## Blondilocks

I'm sorry she cast a pall on your night out. Either her meds need adjusting or her mama still has work to do.


----------



## syhoybenden

Blondilocks said:


> her mama still has work to do.



Yup. 

Not grown up yet, and she's not alone.

These Woke-ing Dead would be well advised to remember ... "As ye sew, so shall ye reap."


----------



## JustTheWife

Diana7 said:


> Yes but many young people do spend so much time on social media and the like, and they will naturally spend most time with people and on sites that promote their way of thinking. I suppose its like a brain washing of sorts. The same way that young people can be brain washed to become terroroists. I see extreme feminism as a sort of terrorism.


yes, of course people are influenced by social media in all kinds of ways. You can call anything you don't agree with, "brainwashing" so I don't really see the point. I stand by my assertion that this was bad individual behavior and doesn't reflect on any movement. She could have been verbally abusing someone about being a "welfare mother", driving a polluting car, wearing a Biden T shirt or a Trump hat (all things that crazy and misguided people do every day). She's responsible for her actions, not some feminist agenda that "brainwashed" her!

I'm NOT defending feminism but extreme/radical feminism is TERRORISM??? Wow. 9-11 was terrorism. Oklahoma city was terrorism. Let's calm down and keep things in perspective. Verbally attacking someone in a parking lot over perceived gender roles or whatever is not acceptable behavior but it's most certainly not TERRORISM, nor are the views she projected (no matter how you might disagree with them) TERRORISM. You might disagree with extreme feminism and some extreme feminists might use some tactics that are illegal, disruptive, or maybe even violent.... but TERRORISM??? I feel like everyone exaggerates everything to the extreme. What's happened to perspective?

Ideas/ideology (no matter how repugnant) is not terrorism. Let's just call everything we don't agree with "terrorism".


----------



## Cromer

frusdil said:


> I used to work with a twenty something who refused to throw her live in boyfriends washing in with hers because "I'm not his mother, I won't live under misogynistic tyranny". Ok, until her car needed something - fuel, tyres checked then it was "his job". Righto.


A while back, I read an article where a boyfriend got tired of his live-in girlfriend "keeping score" about everything to make sure things were "50/50". Literally, a scoresheet of chores and sexual acts and money spent was taped on the fridge. One day she went to work, he took the day off, changed the locks, packed her crap in boxes, left them on the porch, and went to Vegas for a week. He was explaining why he wouldn't do relationships anymore. If I were a young man today I probably couldn't even get a date. I thank God that my daughters aren't corrupted by all of this nonsense, nor my son's soon to be wife.


----------



## Blondilocks

Cromer said:


> If I were a young man today I probably couldn't even get a date.


Dating today is waaaay different than yesterday. Personally, I can't imagine a guy expecting a girl to give him a blowjob on the first date or putting out within 3 dates. I probably would have wound up in a nunnery.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Blondilocks said:


> Dating today is waaaay different than yesterday. Personally, I can't imagine a guy expecting a girl to give him a blowjob on the first date or putting out within 3 dates. I probably would have wound up in a nunnery.


?


----------



## Blondilocks

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> ?


?


----------



## Cromer

Luminous said:


> Probably been binge watching videos in YouTube or has personal hang ups she can't face, has an axe to grind, and no self awareness whatsoever...


Good point. My son was doing this and I had to get smart about what was out there. He talked "red pill", was questioning his relationship, was sure he knew "female nature", was sure she couldn't be monogamous, got paranoid about his girlfriend thinking she was always looking to "better deal" him and would monkey branch, etc. All kinds of things. I think he's over it now but it took a lot of work to deprogram him. She's a gem of a young woman btw. Sadly it started with finding out what his mother did when we did DNA tests. He was affected most by our divorce.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> ?


I didn't get the transition to getting a blowjob from the thread gist, maybe I misread somewhere??


----------



## Cromer

Blondilocks said:


> Dating today is waaaay different than yesterday. Personally, I can't imagine a guy expecting a girl to give him a blowjob on the first date or putting out within 3 dates. I probably would have wound up in a nunnery.


My ex and I dated for four months before I got underneath her bra. I had no idea what I was doing, and neither did she. Other things came long after that happened. Today I'd be too afraid of getting accused of something, especially in college, to date anyone. I am thankful that my son found a good woman and that he is in a committed relationship. It's almost like he won the lottery, at least so far.


----------



## Nailhead

This young woman confronting people out of the blue will not serve her well. In fact, she night find herself needing medical attention.


----------



## Cromer

sokillme said:


> It's a religion. This is their revival.
> 
> And that women probably has mental illness. In another time you would be a witch or something.


Something definitely wasn't right with her. I could tell. Plus, what normal rational person does something like this? I mean, we live in the South and I see men opening doors for women all the time. She must keep herself busy confronting guys, right? On the way home, my wife was judging everything about her in a cute rant. But now that I think about it, I feel sorry for her.


----------



## Luminous

Cromer said:


> Good point. My son was doing this and I had to get smart about what was out there. He talked "red pill", was questioning his relationship, was sure he knew "female nature", was sure she couldn't be monogamous, got paranoid about his girlfriend thinking she was always looking to "better deal" him and would monkey branch, etc. All kinds of things. I think he's over it now but it took a lot of work to deprogram him. She's a gem of a young woman btw. Sadly it started with finding out what his mother did when we did DNA tests. He was affected most by our divorce.


I think many people can take on too much of those red pill videos.

Some people flock to them because they are in pain, and need an outlet, or a group that understands. Others, it helps give them a purpose on improving themselves and their standing in life.

It all comes back to how it is approached. If they look at it as expanding their 'awareness', whilst not becoming jaded or overly cynical, then they develop extra tools/wisdom which can help guide them in future.

Unfortunately, some can get dragged in, and much like the (so-called) woman you described, that too can happen with men who end up on a 'crusade'


----------



## Blondilocks

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I didn't get the transition to getting a blowjob from the thread gist, maybe I misread somewhere??


Dating patterns. Cromer was referencing his gentlemanly manners preventing him from getting a date if he were a young man in today's market. I contrasted that with what young men are expecting nowadays. Please try and keep up.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Blondilocks said:


> Dating patterns. Cromer was referencing his gentlemanly manners preventing him from getting a date if he were a young man in today's market. I contrasted that with what young men are expecting nowadays. Please try and keep up.


Will try. 
It is hard to jump from I was closing my wife's door, got criticized from young poss feminist.........to the first time to expect a blow job on a date.

But I'm all for both! 👍👍


----------



## Rowan

Cromer said:


> Something definitely wasn't right with her. I could tell. Plus, what normal rational person does something like this? I mean, we live in the South and I see men opening doors for women all the time. She must keep herself busy confronting guys, right? On the way home, my wife was judging everything about her in a cute rant. But now that I think about it, I feel sorry for her.


I would guess, too, that some of your shock just came from Southern cultural norms. In my experience it's pretty universal that in the South the absolute worst thing you can possibly ever do, is cause a scene. The next worse thing is to openly disrespect an elder. Well brought up people simply don't. Ever. We tend to have an almost Japanese-level regard for respectable behavior and saving-face. So for a young woman to do that, particularly to an elder and in sight of her mother/aunt/older female relative, is shocking in a way that I think people from other cultures might not instantly grasp.


----------



## Cromer

Luminous said:


> I think many people can take on too much of those red pill videos.
> 
> Some people flock to them because they are in pain, and need an outlet, or a group that understands. Others, it helps give them a purpose on improving themselves and their standing in life.
> 
> It all comes back to how it is approached. If they look at it as expanding their 'awareness', whilst not becoming jaded or overly cynical, then they develop extra tools/wisdom which can help guide them in future.
> 
> Unfortunately, some can get dragged in, and much like the (so-called) woman you described, that too can happen with men who end up on a 'crusade'


You are spot on.

This morning, I got up, fixed my wife a five cheese mushroom and tomato omelet with a side of bacon before she left for work. A lot of red pill extremists would say that I'm simping for a woman who will cheat then ultimately better deal me because that's female nature. That I shouldn't be married in the first place, and I need to make her "obedient". I do it for her because I love her, I'm home and she's working, and I like to cook. It makes me happy to see her enjoy something I cooked for her. Just like I appreciate her doing the laundry.

I know that a lot of what's out there comes from pain men have experienced. I've been there, believe me. But it is sad how social media warps things so much. So many people are flocking to the extremes.


----------



## pastasauce79

This is cray, cray!!

I'm not surprised, though. I've felt the feminist rage around me.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a different culture, but sometimes I feel like a fish out of the water when I'm around other women. I treat my husband with a lot of respect. I have never ever have told him to "shut up." I hear wives saying this to their husbands all the time, and I cringe! It's like a power match. 

One of our friends is going through a rough patch in his marriage. His wife doesn't know what she wants. She wants a career, she wants kids, she wants to have it all, but I has to be her way. Her husband's way is not the right one. He needs to have more "drive". He's confused. She's confused. I think this idea of "women can do it all" is not realistic and it's confusing younger generations. 

By this new idea of being female and powerful, a nice gesture by a male it translates to being weak and submissive. I don't even know what women want now a days. I'm terrified for my son and my daughter as well. 

I think some women feel sorry for me because I'm mostly a SAHM. My husband is the head of the house and has a very strong personality. They think I'm very submissive, living like in the 50's or 60's. What they don't know is that I'm the neck and I can move the head any way I want! Lol!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rowan said:


> I would guess, too, that some of your shock just came from Southern cultural norms. In my experience it's pretty universal that in the South the absolute worst thing you can possibly ever do, is cause a scene. The next worse thing is to openly disrespect an elder. Well brought up people simply don't. Ever. We tend to have an almost Japanese-level regard for respectable behavior and saving-face. So for a young woman to do that, particularly to an elder and in sight of her mother/aunt/older female relative, is shocking in a way that I think people from other cultures might not instantly grasp.


Absolutely well said!

Me being a Southerner and all...


----------



## Blondilocks

Rowan said:


> I would guess, too, that some of your shock just came from Southern cultural norms. In my experience it's pretty universal that in the South the absolute worst thing you can possibly ever do, is cause a scene. The next worse thing is to openly disrespect an elder. Well brought up people simply don't. Ever. We tend to have an almost Japanese-level regard for respectable behavior and saving-face. So for a young woman to do that, particularly to an elder and in sight of her mother/aunt/older female relative, is shocking in a way that I think people from other cultures might not instantly grasp.


Yep, and one of the very worst things one can do is air dirty laundry in public. I see couples waiting until they are in public and passive-aggressively airing their grievances. They don't understand that no one wants to hear that crap. They are being cowardly and self-centered and not caring that they are making others uncomfortable. Manners, people, manners.


----------



## Luminous

Cromer said:


> You are spot on.
> 
> This morning, I got up, fixed my wife a five cheese mushroom and tomato omelet with a side of bacon before she left for work. A lot of red pill extremists would say that I'm simping for a woman who will cheat then ultimately better deal me because that's female nature. That I shouldn't be married in the first place, and I need to make her "obedient". I do it for her because I love her, I'm home and she's working, and I like to cook. It makes me happy to see her enjoy something I cooked for her. Just like I appreciate her doing the laundry.
> 
> I know that a lot of what's out there comes from pain men have experienced. I've been there, believe me. But it is sad how social media warps things so much. So many people are flocking to the extremes.


It's easier to flock to the extremes... Many prefer things to be 'Black and White', as it requires too much introspection and work to sort through those 'shades of grey'.


----------



## LosingHim

I had posted one time on facebook that I was out at a restaurant and witnessed a man opening the door for his date, pulling out her chair, putting her straw into her drink for her, etc. and that I thought it seemed sweet that he seemed to want to be so "gentlemanly". I was honestly shocked by the amount of responses I got from women that they could open their own doors, pull out their own chairs, etc. And these were all responses from women I never considered to be feminists or the like. Just your average every day 30 year old woman LOL. But I wouldn't expect someone to get in your face and yell at you about it. That's just crazy.


----------



## Blondilocks

It's the OP's thread, he can take it wherever he wants.


----------



## Nailhead

LosingHim said:


> I had posted one time on facebook that I was out at a restaurant and witnessed a man opening the door for his date, pulling out her chair, putting her straw into her drink for her, etc. and that I thought it seemed sweet that he seemed to want to be so "gentlemanly". I was honestly shocked by the amount of responses I got from women that they could open their own doors, pull out their own chairs, etc. And these were all responses from women I never considered to be feminists or the like. Just your average every day 30 year old woman LOL. But I wouldn't expect someone to get in your face and yell at you about it. That's just crazy.


Some folks are just indifferent about these things. My W loves that I open doors, pull out chairs, etc. For me, if another does not care for or gets upset about me doing these thing for my W....mind your own business.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Blondilocks said:


> It's the OP's thread, he can take it wherever he wants.


Maybe he'll take it to telling about a last fishing trip, and vacation, and that he and family had a great time, with no crazy persons yelling at him.

Only in the South.


----------



## Cromer

JustTheWife said:


> This whole thing smells a little funny to me. I have no idea what happened but the OP should understand that it looks fishy and moving from some chance, random encounter with a crazy feminist to manosphere talk might suggest the intent of the thread.


I am posting with the idea that many here know my history and I don't care to rehash it. My ex wrecked our family and there was a lot of fallout, especially for my son. It is what it is...

ETA. I don't think you read everything that I wrote here.


----------



## sokillme

Rowan said:


> I would guess, too, that some of your shock just came from Southern cultural norms. In my experience it's pretty universal that in the South the absolute worst thing you can possibly ever do, is cause a scene. The next worse thing is to openly disrespect an elder. Well brought up people simply don't. Ever. We tend to have an almost Japanese-level regard for respectable behavior and saving-face. So for a young woman to do that, particularly to an elder and in sight of her mother/aunt/older female relative, is shocking in a way that I think people from other cultures might not instantly grasp.


Or maybe it's just shocking that some people are such assholes. I grew up in NJ and this person would be just as much an asshole there, the difference is she probably would get punched in the face. By another women I might add.


----------



## Broken at 20

Cromer said:


> Good point. My son was doing this and I had to get smart about what was out there. He talked "red pill", was questioning his relationship, was sure he knew "female nature", was sure she couldn't be monogamous, got paranoid about his girlfriend thinking she was always looking to "better deal" him and would monkey branch, etc. All kinds of things. I think he's over it now but it took a lot of work to deprogram him. She's a gem of a young woman btw. *Sadly it started with finding out what his mother did when we did DNA tests. He was affected most by our divorce.*


Um....so your son is not biologically yours? 
And you still talk to him? And maintain a relationship? How old was he when you found out? Was there any resentment previously between you two or your wife? Did you ever suspect? What caused you to want to take a DNA test? (These are all questions I am asking for a personal reason, not trying to get a rise out of you) 

To your point, the red pill isn't inherently bad. It's merely I think, a rational response to the way the current dating market is structured, and behaving accordingly. And without a unified doctrine on what is considered true "red pill" you'll get various answers from people. 
However, I would say a plurality of red pill guys would see girls through a certain lens that makes them think most women tend to monkey-branch, gold-dig, etc., And a quick browse through my tinder matches tends to confirm that (I will admit that might also be a short-coming on my part) 
But there are other guys that would say if you meet what is considered a "good girl" depending on your definition of what that is, or a traditional girl, virgin, whatever, that you don't run typical game on her. I personally steer clear, because I expect most girls like that probably want to start a family, and since I don't, I do not want to mess up her life/outlook on men by running my usual game. But a "red pill" guy that is looking to start a family, SHOULD know to treat her differently than say, any girl I'm hoping to pick up tomorrow night on Halloween in a bar. 

Also, as someone who found out that he wasn't his father's son, I would argue your son going red-pill is a pretty natural response to that. Additionally, we tend to repeat the mistakes our parents did. My non-bio dad was an illegitimate child raised by another man. Naturally, he picks a woman that does the same thing to him. I will admit that this is an extreme case. But I think your son's reaction is probably warranted, and natural. 
And whether or not the girl he is with is a "gem" who knows. I'm sure you at some time thought his mother was a gem. Again, these are things that are impossible to know until it happens, but just saying. 




Blondilocks said:


> Dating today is waaaay different than yesterday. Personally, I can't imagine a guy expecting a girl to give him a blowjob on the first date or putting out within 3 dates. I probably would have wound up in a nunnery.


I don't expect anything the first date. Though I do by the third. Otherwise, I cut all contact. 
And again, it's a natural response to the way the dating market is rather messed up. 
For example, do you really want to get to know me, and have a serious relationship? Or are you one of those girls that has 3-4 different guys in your phone to take you out to eat all the time so you can save money? Since I can't get into your head, and going through your phone seems...weird, I go with 3 dates. Generally it's enough to tell me you're either interested, or trying to squeeze me for free alcohol/food.


----------



## sokillme

JustTheWife said:


> hmmm... this thread started out describing an encounter with a random crazy person spouting radical feminist ideas. Totally random, chance encounter that happened just today.
> 
> Now the OP is spouting about "red pill" manosphere nonsense (pretty hardcore anti-feminist movement if you don't know) and how his son being with a good woman is like winning the lottery. The OP also makes reference to a DNA test revealing (presumably) that he was cuckolded by his ex wife (certainly not a positive experience with the opposite gender).
> 
> This whole thing smells a little funny to me. I have no idea what happened but the OP should understand that it looks fishy and moving from some chance, random encounter with a crazy feminist to manosphere talk might suggest the intent of the thread. I'm not stuck on whether the whole thing happened or not (of course these things DO happen) or was exaggerated or if there were other aspects to it that aren't mentioned...or whatever. Just saying that the intent of the thread might be to have a red/blue pill party. I don't believe that it's simply venting about a random event that he wasn't even going to post about at first....as he presented it. IOW, something's not quite right here.


OP has a long history of posting here. Nothing fishy about it. 

He also talked about what crap the Redpill was and how his son had to be deprogrammed. Which makes sense as the context of extreme beliefs and generalizations based on ones gender. Both extreme feminism and Redpill are some of the stupidest religions of all the faith based religions.


----------



## sokillme

Broken at 20 said:


> Um....so your son is not biologically yours?
> And you still talk to him? And maintain a relationship? How old was he when you found out? Was there any resentment previously between you two or your wife? Did you ever suspect? What caused you to want to take a DNA test? (These are all questions I am asking for a personal reason, not trying to get a rise out of you)
> 
> To your point, the red pill isn't inherently bad. It's merely I think, a rational response to the way the current dating market is structured, and behaving accordingly. And without a unified doctrine on what is considered true "red pill" you'll get various answers from people.
> However, I would say a plurality of red pill guys would see girls through a certain lens that makes them think most women tend to monkey-branch, gold-dig, etc., And a quick browse through my tinder matches tends to confirm that (I will admit that might also be a short-coming on my part)
> But there are other guys that would say if you meet what is considered a "good girl" depending on your definition of what that is, or a traditional girl, virgin, whatever, that you don't run typical game on her. I personally steer clear, because I expect most girls like that probably want to start a family, and since I don't, I do not want to mess up her life/outlook on men by running my usual game. But a "red pill" guy that is looking to start a family, SHOULD know to treat her differently than say, any girl I'm hoping to pick up tomorrow night on Halloween in a bar.


Any religion that pre-judges a group of people by what genitals they have and not the content of the character is ********. It also isn't helping anyone. 

There are assholes in every walk of life, there are also great people. 

Besides that, Red-pill men evaluate their worth by how many women they can get to sleep with them. There lies the contradiction, they profess to despise the very same women they use to judge their own worth. An Alpha to them is the guy who can "get" or have sex with the largest number of these women. The whole thing is silly.


----------



## TomNebraska

JustTheWife said:


> ...
> 
> This whole thing smells a little funny to me. I have no idea what happened but the OP should understand that it looks fishy and moving from some chance, random encounter with a crazy feminist to manosphere talk might suggest the intent of the thread. I'm not stuck on whether the whole thing happened or not (of course these things DO happen) or was exaggerated or if there were other aspects to it that aren't mentioned...or whatever. Just saying that the intent of the thread might be to have a red/blue pill party. I don't believe that it's simply venting about a random event that he wasn't even going to post about at first....as he presented it. IOW, something's not quite right here.


Yeah, I'm not saying I doubt the veracity here, but whenever I read a story that sounds like whatever they were ranting about on "Fox and Friends" that day, or a email forward from my 89-year-old grandfather typed in ALL CAPS, different color fonts and lots of American flag emojis, I roll my eyes.

And "Karen" isn't a feminist... she's an overprivileged, middle-aged white woman, with frosty blond hair, and a huge ass, screaming at the staff at a nail salon because she doesn't want to wear a mask, screaming at the hostess at Applebee's because she had to wait 15 mins for takeout, and calling the cops because there's a black person at her dog park...


----------



## Cletus

Cromer said:


> It's almost like he won the lottery, at least so far.


Hol' up. What do you mean?


----------



## Tasorundo




----------



## Cromer

Broken at 20 said:


> Um....so your son is not biologically yours?


He's mine. All of my kids are adults, and when their mom's long-ago affairs came to light they all decided to get DNA tests to make sure that I was their biological father. My son was especially close to her, and he was really hurt when everything came out and by the divorce.


----------



## Cromer

Cletus said:


> Hol' up. What do you mean?


They are a great match. I feel that way about my wife like I won the relationship lottery with her.


----------



## Cromer

TomNebraska said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying I doubt the veracity here, but whenever I read a story that sounds like whatever they were ranting about on "Fox and Friends" that day, or a email forward from my 89-year-old grandfather typed in ALL CAPS, different color fonts and lots of American flag emojis, I roll my eyes.


I don't watch cable news, haven't for years. The entire thing was so bizarre and I only posted about it because I kept thinking about it and couldn't sleep. Personally, I don't blame anyone for questioning this whole thing, it was crazy and out of nowhere.


----------



## NextTimeAround

My attitude towards the opening post is the same as my attitude towards the LGBTQ! community. that is, whatever consenting adults get up to is alright with me.

I guess the Karen's of the world are not going to stop until something bad happens to them..... like that Karen in Central Park.

On the tangential issue of how young women behave today, I believe they miss the nuance required when relating to men. I read other relationship boards and it seems as if women think that because they have a job, that everything must be 50/50. Sometimes a guy may want to do something nice for a woman and not want anything in kind or sex, even, in return.

I recall reading at least 2 threads in which the women admitted to being an FB but felt that something was missing because when she visits the guy for their sex session, he doesn't offer any refreshments. One male poster was moved to ask "Do you bring your own snacks to these "sessions?" The OPs feel that something is not quite right but is afraid to ask for anything. What a way to convey low value.


----------



## jlg07

So, my niece (who is a 34 year old doctor) pulled this on my son (her cousin).

I was raised to hold doors, etc.. I raised my son to do the same.

They were having a discussion and went off the same way (she was in her mid-20s then) -- it's demeaning to women, don't you think a woman can open her own door, the whole 9 yards. SHE got it, we later learned, from discussions in her college. A professor or two would routinely spout this stuff out in class, wouldn't allow anything that would affect their position, and basically brainwashed LOTS of the women in the class like this.
My son was very calm in his discussion with her, and basically destroyed every argument she had. She is MUCH better now.


----------



## samyeagar

TomNebraska said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying I doubt the veracity here, but whenever I read a story that sounds like whatever they were ranting about on "Fox and Friends" that day, or a email forward from my 89-year-old grandfather typed in ALL CAPS, different color fonts and lots of American flag emojis, I roll my eyes.
> 
> And "Karen" isn't a feminist... she's an overprivileged, middle-aged white woman, with frosty blond hair, and a huge ass, screaming at the staff at a nail salon because she doesn't want to wear a mask, screaming at the hostess at Applebee's because she had to wait 15 mins for takeout, and calling the cops because there's a black person at her dog park...


Karens come in all shapes and sizes and ages, and isn't it about the pinnacle of privilege and entitlement to think one can behave the way she and others like her behaved without any thought of repercussions?


----------



## seadoug105

“OK Boomer” 


Cromer said:


> This is just a vent but what happened to let people live their lives in the way they want to live?


its sad... because these are the same types of people saying “don’t tell us how to live” or “don’t judge”...

people that claim to have an open mind but only for people that agree with them....


----------



## sokillme

seadoug105 said:


> “OK Boomer”
> 
> 
> its sad... because these are the same types of people saying “don’t tell us how to live” or “don’t judge”...
> 
> people that claim to have an open mind but only for people that agree with them....


If it was the 50's they would be calling people communists, if it were the 1700's they would be calling people witches. It's really about control. It's about policing those who don't conform to the tribe.


----------



## sokillme

jlg07 said:


> So, my niece (who is a 34 year old doctor) pulled this on my son (her cousin).
> 
> I was raised to hold doors, etc.. I raised my son to do the same.
> 
> They were having a discussion and went off the same way (she was in her mid-20s then) -- it's demeaning to women, don't you think a woman can open her own door, the whole 9 yards. SHE got it, we later learned, from discussions in her college. A professor or two would routinely spout this stuff out in class, wouldn't allow anything that would affect their position, and basically brainwashed LOTS of the women in the class like this.
> My son was very calm in his discussion with her, and basically destroyed every argument she had. She is MUCH better now.


Yeah one day she will be embarrassed. These extremest arguments only work on young people or those who have some other things going on. Thing is worrying about someone holding a door for you or not really shows that you don't have a lot to worry about. There are real systemic problems in the world, start with that. You have to come from a place of privilege to even have the ability to be outraged about this.


----------



## sokillme

NextTimeAround said:


> My attitude towards the opening post is the same as my attitude towards the LGBTQ! community. that is, whatever consenting adults get up to is alright with me.
> 
> I guess the Karen's of the world are not going to stop until something bad happens to them..... like that Karen in Central Park.
> 
> On the tangential issue of how young women behave today, I believe they miss the nuance required when relating to men. I read other relationship boards and it seems as if women think that because they have a job, that everything must be 50/50. Sometimes a guy may want to do something nice for a woman and not want anything in kind or sex, even, in return.
> 
> I recall reading at least 2 threads in which the women admitted to being an FB but felt that something was missing because when she visits the guy for their sex session, he doesn't offer any refreshments. One male poster was moved to ask "Do you bring your own snacks to these "sessions?" The OPs feel that something is not quite right but is afraid to ask for anything. What a way to convey low value.


Thing is message boards tend to bring out a lot of poor souls as my Mom used to call them. If you used this board as a judge you would think all marriages have affairs. 

I work with a lot of young women, I don't know one who is like this.

Most seem very well adjusted and put together.


----------



## Blondilocks

And verbally assaulting a stranger for opening a car door for another stranger is another level altogether. I have some windows that need washing if she's so desperate for something to do.


----------



## Married_in_michigan

we are all fu*k*d!....the next generation is so off the wall, it is hard to watch it unfold


----------



## sokillme

Married_in_michigan said:


> we are all fu*k*d!....the next generation is so off the wall, it is hard to watch it unfold


Maybe, but I think it is just as likely that as soon as some of these ideas are implemented the more out there ones will fail spectacularly and they will lose all credibility. Yes there will always be true believers, but most people with wise up. This is not the first generation that was going to change the world. Human nature doesn't change, it's a constant. Wishful thinking doesn't make things so.


----------



## Cletus

Married_in_michigan said:


> we are all fu*k*d!....the next generation is so off the wall, it is hard to watch it unfold


Meh, if all you see are the outliers. "Get off my lawn"-ism is a never ending theme between the generations. 

My two 20-somethings seem to be navigating the world well enough.


----------



## farsidejunky

JustTheWife said:


> hmmm... this thread started out describing an encounter with a random crazy person spouting radical feminist ideas. Totally random, chance encounter that happened just today.
> 
> Now the OP is spouting about "red pill" manosphere nonsense (pretty hardcore anti-feminist movement if you don't know) and how his son being with a good woman is like winning the lottery. The OP also makes reference to a DNA test revealing (presumably) that he was cuckolded by his ex wife (certainly not a positive experience with the opposite gender).
> 
> This whole thing smells a little funny to me. I have no idea what happened but the OP should understand that it looks fishy and moving from some chance, random encounter with a crazy feminist to manosphere talk might suggest the intent of the thread. I'm not stuck on whether the whole thing happened or not (of course these things DO happen) or was exaggerated or if there were other aspects to it that aren't mentioned...or whatever. Just saying that the intent of the thread might be to have a red/blue pill party. I don't believe that it's simply venting about a random event that he wasn't even going to post about at first....as he presented it. IOW, something's not quite right here.


Maybe you missed the part where you said he had to deprogram the red pill nonsense out of his son.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## OnTheFly

Nailhead said:


> This young woman confronting people out of the blue will not serve her well. In fact, she night find herself needing medical attention.


These wimminz are taught no fear. Partly from super hero movies where a waif beats up five burly men and partly from the vestiges of our society's long-gone ethos of not hitting a woman. Check out youtube for loud-mouthed ladies meeting a guy who wasn't briefed beforehand about ''touching not the Lord's anointed''. Amusing and painful.

(disclaimer: I'm not advocating physical violence for leftist idiocy, bursting out in laughter in their face is just punishment, IMO)


----------



## MattMatt

My wife would have destroyed her with words.


----------



## Benbutton

That seriously speaks of mental illness, its for the better that you didn't bother retaliating as it would have no doubt escalated the situation.


----------



## Cromer

We early voted today and ran some errands. While standing in line to vote, we struck up a conversation with two young ladies (sisters) who were behind us. They were first-time voters. When it was our turn to enter the building, I offered to let them go ahead of us and said have fun ladies. They were grateful and said thank you. Then at a couple of stores, I TWICE opened the door for young ladies who were behind us, and both times they said: "thank you." Crazy is out there, but thankfully very rare.


----------



## Cromer

Benbutton said:


> That seriously speaks of mental illness, its for the better that you didn't bother retaliating as it would have no doubt escalated the situation.


Something definitely wasn't right. The lady that pulled her away looked exasperated. I just hadn't seen anything like that before. My wife was more upset about the whole thing than me.


----------



## suburbanmom

I consider myself a feminist and also love it when my husband holds the door for me! Granted I'm old, but I agree with the idea that the girl has other issues. I can see how that incident would be unsettling!


----------



## Diana7

Married_in_michigan said:


> we are all fu*k*d!....the next generation is so off the wall, it is hard to watch it unfold


Thankfully not all young people are like that. Some are even nice and polite. I have several young people in my family, they are all really lovely.


----------



## Diana7

Broken at 20 said:


> Um....so your son is not biologically yours?
> And you still talk to him? And maintain a relationship? How old was he when you found out? Was there any resentment previously between you two or your wife? Did you ever suspect? What caused you to want to take a DNA test? (These are all questions I am asking for a personal reason, not trying to get a rise out of you)
> 
> To your point, the red pill isn't inherently bad. It's merely I think, a rational response to the way the current dating market is structured, and behaving accordingly. And without a unified doctrine on what is considered true "red pill" you'll get various answers from people.
> However, I would say a plurality of red pill guys would see girls through a certain lens that makes them think most women tend to monkey-branch, gold-dig, etc., And a quick browse through my tinder matches tends to confirm that (I will admit that might also be a short-coming on my part)
> But there are other guys that would say if you meet what is considered a "good girl" depending on your definition of what that is, or a traditional girl, virgin, whatever, that you don't run typical game on her. I personally steer clear, because I expect most girls like that probably want to start a family, and since I don't, I do not want to mess up her life/outlook on men by running my usual game. But a "red pill" guy that is looking to start a family, SHOULD know to treat her differently than say, any girl I'm hoping to pick up tomorrow night on Halloween in a bar.
> 
> Also, as someone who found out that he wasn't his father's son, I would argue your son going red-pill is a pretty natural response to that. Additionally, we tend to repeat the mistakes our parents did. My non-bio dad was an illegitimate child raised by another man. Naturally, he picks a woman that does the same thing to him. I will admit that this is an extreme case. But I think your son's reaction is probably warranted, and natural.
> And whether or not the girl he is with is a "gem" who knows. I'm sure you at some time thought his mother was a gem. Again, these are things that are impossible to know until it happens, but just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't expect anything the first date. Though I do by the third. Otherwise, I cut all contact.
> And again, it's a natural response to the way the dating market is rather messed up.
> For example, do you really want to get to know me, and have a serious relationship? Or are you one of those girls that has 3-4 different guys in your phone to take you out to eat all the time so you can save money? Since I can't get into your head, and going through your phone seems...weird, I go with 3 dates. Generally it's enough to tell me you're either interested, or trying to squeeze me for free alcohol/food.


There are other ways to show that you are interested in someone than having sex. In fact if a guy who I was with was expecting sex after 3 dates I would know he wasnt really interested in me at all, but just wanted sex.


----------



## RandomDude

Cromer said:


> We early voted today and ran some errands. While standing in line to vote, we struck up a conversation with two young ladies (sisters) who were behind us. They were first-time voters. When it was our turn to enter the building, I offered to let them go ahead of us and said have fun ladies. They were grateful and said thank you. Then at a couple of stores, I TWICE opened the door for young ladies who were behind us, and both times they said: "thank you." Crazy is out there, but thankfully very rare.


Who gives a crap what that mole thinks, it doesn't matter and what she did trying to start something is simply just not on, regardless if whether because of political religious sexual social mental reasons.

Don't think too much about it mate, I told my partner about how you are and she complained that I should be more chivalrous like you  - so what you have is a good thing.


----------



## Diana7

jlg07 said:


> So, my niece (who is a 34 year old doctor) pulled this on my son (her cousin).
> 
> I was raised to hold doors, etc.. I raised my son to do the same.
> 
> They were having a discussion and went off the same way (she was in her mid-20s then) -- it's demeaning to women, don't you think a woman can open her own door, the whole 9 yards. SHE got it, we later learned, from discussions in her college. A professor or two would routinely spout this stuff out in class, wouldn't allow anything that would affect their position, and basically brainwashed LOTS of the women in the class like this.
> My son was very calm in his discussion with her, and basically destroyed every argument she had. She is MUCH better now.


Sadly much of this nonsense comes from colleges and universities.


----------



## Cromer

Diana7 said:


> Thankfully not all young people are like that. Some are even nice and polite. I have several young people in my family, they are all really lovely.


I agree. I've done a lot of youth volunteer work over the years, and taught for several years. The vast majority of young people I've known are very nice and polite.


----------



## Diana7

pastasauce79 said:


> This is cray, cray!!
> 
> I'm not surprised, though. I've felt the feminist rage around me.
> 
> Maybe it's because I grew up in a different culture, but sometimes I feel like a fish out of the water when I'm around other women. I treat my husband with a lot of respect. I have never ever have told him to "shut up." I hear wives saying this to their husbands all the time, and I cringe! It's like a power match.
> 
> One of our friends is going through a rough patch in his marriage. His wife doesn't know what she wants. She wants a career, she wants kids, she wants to have it all, but I has to be her way. Her husband's way is not the right one. He needs to have more "drive". He's confused. She's confused. I think this idea of "women can do it all" is not realistic and it's confusing younger generations.
> 
> By this new idea of being female and powerful, a nice gesture by a male it translates to being weak and submissive. I don't even know what women want now a days. I'm terrified for my son and my daughter as well.
> 
> I think some women feel sorry for me because I'm mostly a SAHM. My husband is the head of the house and has a very strong personality. They think I'm very submissive, living like in the 50's or 60's. What they don't know is that I'm the neck and I can move the head any way I want! Lol!


My husband stuggled in that way with his ex. She wanted him to take the lead more and have more authority, and when he tried to do that she complained. Cant win.


----------



## Cromer

Diana7 said:


> My husband stuggled in that way with his ex. She wanted him to take the lead more and have more authority, and when he tried to do that she complained. Cant win.


My wife absolutely loves seeing me "take charge" but I know the limits. She's not a naturally assertive person out in the world unless it's her job, her comfort zone, and she will dang sure assert herself with me. That's why I was so surprised at her reaction yesterday.

Several months ago I bought her a new car. We were at the dealership and they wouldn't budge on my offer, so I said "let's go" and we left the building. The next day I get a call from the dealership and they agreed to my offer. Then when we went to close the deal, I told them we were paying cash. They tried to backtrack because they were certain we were going to finance it through them. I went to leave and they backed down. She really wanted that car but I warned her that we have to be willing to walk away and mean it. That whole situation genuinely turned her on LOL.

We've figured things out fairly quickly in our relationship. We've talked so much about this topic. Her ex was controlling to the extreme and she appreciates feeling safe to be her own person. She was single for a lot longer after her divorce than me and learned to be independent. But she told me that she was very lonely, still afraid of her ex, and never felt truly free. Thankfully we don't have any power struggles in our marriage, and I am so grateful. I recognize her strengths, and let her run with them. She does the same.


----------



## NextTimeAround

@sokillme, Are you their boss? Then of course they're not going to mention something in terms that are so obvious. When I was working, I always couched my weekend activities as group activities that were fun. No mention of anyone in particular so ono one could ask "how are they?" at a later time. ..... which is, I agree, usually an innocent question but sometimes it is not. Mention too many male names and someone might thinking "Wow, she's probably sleeping with all of them." yes, I have dated a couple of guys who assumed simply saying hello to a man in social situation meant that I must have slept with him.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Something I wanted to add this morning but had to leave, that is I notice that even homeless men retain the civility and grace to let a woman, or at least, me, go first for example, on the bus. To get a heartfelt thank you from the recipient is probably their last connection they feel that they have left with society.


----------



## frusdil

Absolutely agree with the poster who said that if someone is THAT worried about a stranger holding a door or pulling out a chair for his SO, something that has nothing to do with anyone other than the couple themselves, they don't have a lot to worry about in life, lol.

Ridiculous.


----------



## ABHale

You are all good as long as you live by their rules.


----------



## NextTimeAround

frusdil said:


> Absolutely agree with the poster who said that if someone is THAT worried about a stranger holding a door or pulling out a chair for his SO, something that has nothing to do with anyone other than the couple themselves, they don't have a lot to worry about in life, lol.
> 
> Ridiculous.


It might that because no one does that for her, she doesn't want to see other women being offered those courtesies.

I was amazed when I started dating the second time around. Women my age schooling me on how I shouldn't let the man pay for me. And then getting mad if I admitted that he did pay.


----------



## Cromer

NextTimeAround said:


> It might that because no one does that for her, she doesn't want to see other women being offered those courtesies.
> 
> I was amazed when I started dating the second time around. Women my age schooling me on how I shouldn't let the man pay for me. And then getting mad if I admitted that he did pay.


When I started dating my ex, I got a part-time job in college to pay for it. She was two years ahead of me, and when she graduated and got a job, she insisted that I quit my job so she could see me more often, and she paid for dates. This was early to mid-'80s and I was adamant about her not paying for anything, but ultimately became her sugar-boy as we used to joke. At that point in our relationship, we were basically one so the dynamic was different.

On a totally unrelated note, my wife and her daughter left late this afternoon for a "socially responsible" church lady retreat this weekend, so I'm unsupervised while spending time hanging out here LOL. I can never thank the TAM community enough for the support during the dark days a few years back. My life is so different now, and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## sokillme

NextTimeAround said:


> @sokillme, Are you their boss? Then of course they're not going to mention something in terms that are so obvious. When I was working, I always couched my weekend activities as group activities that were fun. No mention of anyone in particular so ono one could ask "how are they?" at a later time. ..... which is, I agree, usually an innocent question but sometimes it is not. Mention too many male names and someone might thinking "Wow, she's probably sleeping with all of them." yes, I have dated a couple of guys who assumed simply saying hello to a man in social situation meant that I must have slept with him.


I am not sure your context. 

I open door for women and men all the time, only once as I can remember did someone give me a hard time. I think I told her something like I do that for everyone and she was nothing special, to quit be so sensitive and just say thank you next time, then pulled the door closed in her face and walked away laughing to myself. That should be how everyone handles that. Pull the door shut and walk away. Ha I think I was like 16 at the time too and the lady was an adult. I know that is hard to believe given how "non confrontational" I am on this site, I mean I was born and raised in NJ. 

I think that lady that confronted OP was a poor soul who is mentally ill more then anything else. I feel sorry for her. 

Anyway not sure what the question was.


----------



## sokillme

Cromer said:


> On a totally unrelated note, my wife and her daughter left late this afternoon for a "socially responsible" church lady retreat this weekend, so I'm unsupervised while spending time hanging out here LOL. I can never thank the TAM community enough for the support during the dark days a few years back. My life is so different now, and I couldn't be happier.


This is really great to hear. Yours was one of the worst stories, and now it's one of the best.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Little know-it-all b***h. She's been brainwashed by someone. Now she wants everyone to be as miserable as she is. Hey I'm a 68-year-old woman and I open doors for people. If someone turns around sometime and says they don't like it I will happily close the door on their thumb or accidentally stand on their big toe.


----------



## NextTimeAround

sokillme said:


> Thing is message boards tend to bring out a lot of poor souls as my Mom used to call them. If you used this board as a judge you would think all marriages have affairs.
> 
> I work with a lot of young women, I don't know one who is like this.
> 
> Most seem very well adjusted and put together.


This post is what I was referring to. You said, you work with a lot of young women who don't appear as what I have described. I pointed if you a boss to these woman you are thinking of, then they have probably avoided --and intentionally so -- then they know that that talk of FBs and other sexual activities is best to keep out of the workplace. 

I don't think of this message board as one that represents the general population. That is the beauty of message boards. They attract like minded and /or like experienced people. Let's hope that boards that support adultery are not viewed as "well, everybody's doing it."


----------



## LisaDiane

pastasauce79 said:


> I think some women feel sorry for me because I'm mostly a SAHM. My husband is the head of the house and has a very strong personality. They think I'm very submissive, living like in the 50's or 60's. *What they don't know is that I'm the neck and I can move the head any way I want! Lol!*


This is BRILLIANT!!!!! I completely agree, and I also feel like the neck is the best and most powerful position to be in!!


----------



## Cromer

LisaDiane said:


> This is BRILLIANT!!!!! I completely agree, and I also feel like the neck is the best and most powerful position to be in!!


If I'm honest this is us, but I don't care. We're happy and I love her. To the world, I'm the one protecting, providing, in charge, etc. But between us, she's the real power, and I appreciate her strength. It is hard to explain. She is so meek to those on the outside, but that's not really her. My belief is that when she feels safe to be who she is, she shines. But she is so guarded. It works for us, but I hate that she was conditioned that way by her previous relationship. No matter, we're in a good place now regardless of our pasts. She makes me a better man.


----------



## NextTimeAround

> I was adamant about her not paying for anything


Where can one find men like you?


----------



## Luminous

LisaDiane said:


> This is BRILLIANT!!!!! I completely agree, and I also feel like the neck is the best and most powerful position to be in!!


Maybe you might want to reconsider... 

One day the different parts of the body were having an argument to see which should be in charge.
The brain said: ‘I do all the thinking, so I’m the most important and I should be the boss’. 

The eyes said: ‘I see everything and let the rest of you know where we are, so I’m the most important and I should be in charge’. 
The hands said: ‘Without me we wouldn’t be able to pick anything up or move anything. So I’m the most important and I should be in charge’. 
The stomach said: ‘I turn the food we eat into energy for the rest of you. Without me, we’d starve. So I’m the most important and I should be the boss’. 
The legs said: ‘Without me we wouldn’t be able to move anywhere. So I’m the most important and I should be in charge’. 

Then the rectum spoke and insisted that it should be in charge. 
All the rest of the parts laughed and derided the very notion. The rectum wasn’t important. How could it possibly be in charge ? 
So, the rectum closed up. After a few days, the legs were all wobbly, the stomach was queasy, the hands were shaky, the eyes were watery and the brain couldn’t think straight. The other body parts soon agreed that they couldn’t take any more and that the rectum should be placed in charge. 
Which all goes to show that you don’t have to be the most important person to be in charge…..just an ‘a…hole’.


OK, thread jack over


----------



## MattMatt

I hold doors open for people. One woman complained and I said "I was taught to hold doors open for people. Aren't you a person?"


----------



## Laurentium

MattMatt said:


> I hold doors open for people. One woman complained and I said "I was taught to hold doors open for people. Aren't you a person?"


 I guess I'd say the same thing, differently: "I also hold doors for men".


----------



## RandomDude

MattMatt said:


> I hold doors open for people. One woman complained and I said "I was taught to hold doors open for people. Aren't you a person?"





Laurentium said:


> I guess I'd say the same thing, differently: "I also hold doors for men".


Everyone is such a gentleman.
I would have simply said "would you rather I slam it in your face?"


----------



## MattMatt

RandomDude said:


> Everyone is such a gentleman.
> I would have simply said "would you rather I slam it in your face?"


When we use British sarcasm on people, they would probably prefer to have a door hit them! 😆


----------



## sokillme

NextTimeAround said:


> This post is what I was referring to. You said, you work with a lot of young women who don't appear as what I have described. I pointed if you a boss to these woman you are thinking of, then they have probably avoided --and intentionally so -- then they know that that talk of FBs and other sexual activities is best to keep out of the workplace.
> 
> I don't think of this message board as one that represents the general population. That is the beauty of message boards. They attract like minded and /or like experienced people. Let's hope that boards that support adultery are not viewed as "well, everybody's doing it."


Nah not their boss. I am usually not in their department but I generally support them through technology as a part of individual large projects. At times this involves spending considerable amounts of time with them in meetings or one on one. As they have open up to me, I have asked questions about their dating from the perspective of an old man and how crazy I think it would be like. This has lead to discussions about young men today and men in general. I find most of them very impressive. They are very driven and hard working, but seem like pretty decent people. Most of them are the same types of woman my wife was when I met her. Highly successful, attractive looking for a guy who could handle it from a small pool. 

My wife also works with a lot of younger women dating and just getting married. We have met them for drinks and things. All of them seem pretty cool to me. There are a few that if I were young and single I would stay away from. Then there are some that I think would make a good catch for someone. 

Look I am sure there are assholes out there, but I don't think what you guys describe as today's women is the default. I just don't see it. Maybe it's the circles I run in who knows?

What's interesting is a lot of the young men who I meet seem to be less far along. There priorities seem much more about having fun, they date in that context. Not all, I the last 5 or so years I have become really good friends with a young guy who is 18 years younger then me, and could have been my son as far as age. He is a really really good dude. He has a large circle of friends who I occasionally meet and hear about in the periphery. These men seem like good dudes. A lot of them are also newly married. He has worked right out of high school and makes very good money in his field. 

I am a little iffy on the chick he is dating, but I also think he doesn't really understand women, their attraction and has kind of bought the nice guy narrative. (Women will be attracted to you if you are nice enough.) I am not going to be in his face about that, though I do occasionally say some stuff. When he was single I told him, lose weight, lift weights, concentrate on his job and he will have more options. 

Anyway, in general I like most of the young kids I meet. I also think most of their hearts are in the right place. Right now they are true believers as far as what they learned in college. Life will teach the smart ones how it works. I was a true believer in my late teens early 20s too. Now I am a realist who tries to do the right thing. I know I am not changing the world, and really the world doesn't deserve changing. The world should get what it deserves like everyone else.


----------



## sokillme

RandomDude said:


> Everyone is such a gentleman.
> I would have simply said "would you rather I slam it in your face?"


Nah, just slam it in their face when they complain. That is better. There is way to much explaining and trying to be nice with these people.


----------



## Girl_power

I feel bad for her, she clearly has issues. It’s not your job, but I think you missed a great teaching opportunity for her. I think what she needed was a real conversation. I see your angry, why do you think this is misogynistic? Give her them to explain. Then tell her, I made my wife a big beautiful breakfast this morning before she went to work. That’s how things are in my marriage, give and take. We both loving serve each other, we are a team that enjoys making each other happy. My wife likes it when I open her door. 

She saw you opening the door and assumed she knew the everything about you, and she got mad for your wife. I know it sounds crazy, but her heart is in the right place. She just needs to be schooled a little. She felt “bad” for your wife because she thought you were a controlling misogynist... that doesn’t make her a bad person. It makes her naïve, troubles, angry, and with issues.


----------



## RandomDude

MattMatt said:


> When we use British sarcasm on people, they would probably prefer to have a door hit them! 😆





sokillme said:


> Nah, just slam it in their face when they complain. That is better. There is way to much explaining and trying to be nice with these people.


Lol damn, you guys are right!

_* makes note to simply slam it in their faces and not even say anything *_

Much better


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> Everyone is such a gentleman.
> I would have simply said "would you rather I slam it in your face?"


What will this accomplish? This will just prove her point that men suck. This will just reinforce her ideas. This will just make her treat men worse in the future. 

Why can’t we work on understanding people and coming together in a loving way so we can both learn about each other. Why do we have to keep this division amongst ourselves?


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> I feel bad for her, she clearly has issues. It’s not your job, but I think you missed a great teaching opportunity for her. I think what she needed was a real conversation...


LOL WTF?! 
And I thought Cromer was being too nice already now you want him to take even more time away from his wife and waste it trying to school a retarded mole?
You have too high hopes for these people, they aren't interested in learning anything, only to unleash their hate on whatever bystander crosses their path.



Girl_power said:


> What will this accomplish? This will just prove her point that men suck. This will just reinforce her ideas. This will just make her treat men worse in the future.


Hahaha reinforce her ideas by giving her EXACTLY what she asks for? 
If she gets bitter after learning the age-old lesson of being careful what she wishes for then all the merrier if she continues pouting! LOL



> Why can’t we work on understanding people and coming together in a loving way so we can both learn about each other. Why do we have to keep this division amongst ourselves?


Oh I understand them alright 
All the more reason I reckon people are being way too nice. But I have to admit, you take the cake!

Not a bad thing, your idealism and patience, but I would consider it wasted if I see you trying to school one of these c---s would probably encourage you to move on.


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> LOL WTF?!
> And I thought Cromer was being too nice already now you want him to take even more time away from his wife and waste it trying to school a retarded mole?
> You have too high hopes for these people, they aren't interested in learning anything, only to unleash their hate on whatever bystander crosses their path.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha reinforce her ideas by giving her EXACTLY what she asks for?
> If she gets bitter after learning the age-old lesson of being careful what she wishes for then all the merrier if she continues pouting! LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I understand them alright
> All the more reason I reckon people are being way too nice. But I have to admit, you take the cake!
> 
> Not a bad thing, your idealism and patience, but I would consider it wasted if I see you trying to school one of these c---s would probably encourage you to move on.


Your intolerance proves that you are exactly like her. Grow up.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> Your intolerance proves that you are exactly like her. Grow up.


🤷‍♂️ Ok

So much for your idealism and patience


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> Ok
> 
> So much for your idealism and patience


Well there is no talking to you because you are intolerant of any other opinions. You called her a retarded mole, made fun of my opinion, and said there is no talking sense Into that girl even though she didn’t get the opportunity to have a conversation, you just assume she is unwilling to have a conversation. Which is ironic, because it is you who is acting like that. 

I would love to have a real conversation with you about this, I am not impatient. You just seem to assume things and lambaste this girl because on one limited interaction.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> Well there is no talking to you because you are intolerant of any of opinions. You called her a retarded mole, made fun of my opinion, and said there is no talking sense Into that girl even though she didn’t get the opportunity to have a conversation, you just assume she is unwilling to have a conversation. Which is ironic, because it is you who is acting like that.
> 
> I would love to have a real conversation with you about this, I am not impatient. You just seem to assume things and lambaste this girl because on one limited interaction.


Don't take me to heart, I make fun of everything 
I did mention your opinion reflects your virtues, regardless of what I felt about it, so I don't understand how you mean I'm intolerant of your opinion. Yes I do find it funny, but I can't help myself lol

I AM intolerant of certain types of people however, such as what OP encountered. She is entitled to her own opinion and her own hate if necessary, but she is not entitled to go up to innocent bystanders on a night out trying to start a confrontation. As she has done the latter she deserves exactly what I have suggested, though others have already presented a much more gentlemanly approach.


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> Don't take me to heart, I make fun of everything
> I did mention your opinion reflects your virtues, regardless of what I felt about it, so I don't understand how you mean I'm intolerant of your opinion. Yes I do find it funny, but I can't help myself lol
> 
> I AM intolerant of certain types of people however, such as what OP encountered. She is entitled to her own opinion and her own hate if necessary, but she is not entitled to go up to innocent bystanders on a night out trying to start a confrontation. As she has done the latter she deserves exactly what I have suggested, though others have already presented a much more gentlemanly approach.


Her actions are 100% wrong, there is no question. But why Is she SO angry? When people’s reactions are so strong and inappropriate for the situation something is going on. Imo she assumed he was a bad and controlling which isn’t ok, but I hope her concern was for the well being of his wife. Even though it wasn’t warranted. That’s why I think she didn’t mean any malice. But what she did was 100% wrong. 

Also she is young, and who knows what her parents relationship was like. Who knows if she ever saw a man cook a women food. Who knows if she ever saw a strong successful women ever do anything nice for a man. I mean we don’t really know and I know it doesn’t matter because she was wrong. 


When we are doing well in life, and find a balance, and are at peace with the world and with ourselves we don’t feel the need to point the finger, yell, be intolerant etc. the OP strikes me as that kind of man. Has a loving wife, he’s secure with his position as a man, he can be chivalrous and cook his wife breakfast etc. he’s a gentleman. When people finally figure out life, they don’t feel the need to lower themselves to the level of every extremist out there. There is nothing to prove. There is no point arguing with people. He should understand her naïveté, her biases, and he should pitty her. Because clearly she hasn’t seen a loving and giving relationship before.


----------



## sokillme

Girl_power said:


> What will this accomplish? This will just prove her point that men suck. This will just reinforce her ideas. This will just make her treat men worse in the future.
> 
> Why can’t we work on understanding people and coming together in a loving way so we can both learn about each other. Why do we have to keep this division amongst ourselves?


I personally don't care about her, she is an unreasonable jerk. So there is that. Besides that people learn mostly from pain and suffering Enough doors slammed in her face and at least she will shut up. She can think what she wants, I don't care about hearts and minds. 

Life is much easier when you don't care if strangers like you or not.


----------



## Girl_power

sokillme said:


> I personally don't care about her, she is an unreasonable asshole. So there is that. Besides that people learn mostly from pain and suffering Enough doors slammed in her face and at least she will shut up.
> 
> Life is much easier when you don't care if strangers like you or not.


I understand your opinion. 
It’s not about caring if people like you or not. It’s about caring for people besides yourself. She has issues, who knows what she is going through. Hurt people hurt. Being intolerant is not the answer imo. But I understand you do not care about her and won’t waste your breath. I do care about people, especially hurting people and I would of at least tried to talk to her.


----------



## Girl_power

And I’m sorry but it’s a problem when we don’t care about each other.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> Her actions are 100% wrong, there is no question. But why Is she SO angry? When people’s reactions are so strong and inappropriate for the situation something is going on. Imo she assumed he was a bad and controlling which isn’t ok, but I hope her concern was for the well being of his wife. Even though it wasn’t warranted. That’s why I think she didn’t mean any malice. But what she did was 100% wrong.
> 
> Also she is young, and who knows what her parents relationship was like. Who knows if she ever saw a man cook a women food. Who knows if she ever saw a strong successful women ever do anything nice for a man. I mean we don’t really know and I know it doesn’t matter because she was wrong.


Well people on this thread already have many opinions on why she became like that, but regardless of what drove her to that, like you also agreed - it's no excuse to target innocents for it.



> When we are doing well in life, and find a balance, and are at peace with the world and with ourselves we don’t feel the need to point the finger, yell, be intolerant etc. the OP strikes me as that kind of man. Has a loving wife, he’s secure with his position as a man, he can be chivalrous and cook his wife breakfast etc. he’s a gentleman. When people finally figure out life, they don’t feel the need to lower themselves to the level of every extremist out there. There is nothing to prove. *There is no point arguing with people. He should understand her naïveté, her biases, and he should pitty her.* Because clearly she hasn’t seen a loving and giving relationship before.


Well, exactly!


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> Well people on this thread already have many opinions on why she became like that, but regardless of what drove her to that, like you also agreed - it's no excuse to target innocents for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, exactly!


But she’s too young to be jaded already. Hopefully she has time to learn that not all men are bad and want women to serve them. 

Opening up a discussion is different than arguing. She had a strong emotional response, I bet she wants to talk about it. I’m sure she wants to scream and yell about it lol. Which is why I think when that is allowed, then the response is something that loving, and rationale it exposes that persons issues and they come face to face with the truth.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> I understand your opinion.
> It’s not about caring if people like you or not. It’s about caring for people besides yourself. She has issues, who knows what she is going through. Hurt people hurt. Being intolerant is not the answer imo. But I understand you do not care about her and won’t waste your breath. I do care about people, especially hurting people and I would of at least tried to talk to her.


Well, we can't all be counselors 

We each play a part, see it this way: Personalities such as yourself will always show her the right road to take, however she might doubt your directions, want to try her own way, thinking she knows better, even if it means going off the road and hitting bystanders. There's where other personalities come in, to show her the consequences of going off the road and doing hit and runs. After suffering enough consequences for her actions, she might just take your advice 

Also, people have every right to not tolerate someone in their face, and be able to get from A to B without being harassed, attacked, or assaulted.


----------



## sokillme

Girl_power said:


> I understand your opinion.
> It’s not about caring if people like you or not. It’s about caring for people besides yourself. She has issues, who knows what she is going through. Hurt people hurt. Being intolerant is not the answer imo. But I understand you do not care about her and won’t waste your breath. I do care about people, especially hurting people and I would of at least tried to talk to her.


In the case of this women I would assume she has mental illness and just leave. In terms of someone giving me a hard time of holding a door, I would do just what I did when I was 16 which I wrote about. 

We should always be intolerant to rude people. There is actually not enough push back on these types of assholes. Both sides. I am more then willing to talk to reasonable people who disagree with me, people who are rude deserve no place in the public discourse and need to be rooted out like they have leprosy. The problem is actually TOO MUCH tolerance. 

I believe everyone has a responsibility to treat others with dignity and respect, that means whatever your opinion is. However once you show that you have no respect you need to be called out, again no matter what your opinion is.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> But she’s too young to be jaded already. Hopefully she has time to learn that not all men are bad and want women to serve them.
> 
> Opening up a discussion is different than arguing. She had a strong emotional response, *I bet she wants to talk about it.* I’m sure she wants to scream and yell about it lol. Which is why I think when that is allowed, then the response is something that loving, and rationale it exposes that persons issues and they come face to face with the truth.


Well there are appropriate outlets for that, friends, family, message boards (lol). Not innocents on the street!


----------



## RandomDude

sokillme said:


> In the case of this women I would assume she has mental illness and just leave. In terms of someone giving me a hard time of holding a door, I would do just what I did when I was 16 which I wrote about.
> 
> We should always be intolerant to rude people. There is actually not enough push back on these types of assholes. Both sides. I am more then willing to talk to reasonable people who disagree with me, people who are rude deserve no place in the public discourse and need to be rooted out like they have leprosy. The problem is actually TOO MUCH tolerance.
> 
> *I believe everyone has a responsibility to treat others with dignity and respect, that means whatever your opinion is. However once you show that you have no respect you need to be called out, again no matter what your opinion is.*


Damn right.


----------



## Girl_power

RandomDude said:


> Well, we can't all be counselors
> 
> We each play a part, see it this way: Personalities such as yourself will always show her the right road to take, however she might doubt your directions, want to try her own way, thinking she knows better, even if it means going off the road and hitting bystanders. There's where other personalities come in, to show her the consequences of going off the road and doing hit and runs. After suffering enough consequences for her actions, she might just take your advice
> 
> Also, people have every right to not tolerate someone in their face, and be able to get from A to B without being harassed, attacked, or assaulted.


I agree that we have every right to be intolerant I am not disagreeing. 

People talk about snowflakes and they usually refer to young millennials and gen X, and it’s because their feelings get hurt too easily. I see people taking personal offense to what she did as being a snowflake. She doesn’t even know him, it isn’t personal. It’s clear as day this is about her and she has issues. I mean if people can’t see that I don’t know what to say. 

People always want to make it about themselves. To each their own. I was raised Christian. I was raised to turn the other cheek, that hurt people hurt, and that most people just want to vent and complain and some kindness goes a long way. I was raised that we are the hands and feet of god and we are there to serve. 

Hour but wrong in your belief obviously. I just question what affect you will have in this girl. And most people probably would say that they don’t give two craps about me. But I do.


----------



## Bluesclues

Girl_power said:


> I agree that we have every right to be intolerant I am not disagreeing.
> 
> People talk about snowflakes and they usually refer to young millennials and gen X, and it’s because their feelings get hurt too easily. I see people taking personal offense to what she did as being a snowflake. She doesn’t even know him, it isn’t personal. It’s clear as day this is about her and she has issues. I mean if people can’t see that I don’t know what to say.
> 
> People always want to make it about themselves. To each their own. I was raised Christian. I was raised to turn the other cheek, that hurt people hurt, and that most people just want to vent and complain and some kindness goes a long way. I was raised that we are the hands and feet of god and we are there to serve.
> 
> Hour but wrong in your belief obviously. I just question what affect you will have in this girl. And most people probably would say that they don’t give two craps about me. But I do.


I think you meant Gen Z, us Gen X folks don’t have feelings.

I think there are a lot of assumptions being made about this young woman, that she must have something wrong with her to accost strangers. You went as far as to presume she has never seen a loving relationship. This might actually just be her point of view, it doesn’t make her damaged as you imply. And either way I don’t think Cromer ‘mansplaining‘ to her the aspects of what a loving relationship entails would have the healing impact you imagine.

The problem isn’t her beliefs (even though I don’t share them) it was her choice of audience and venue to share them with. I believe she is just one of the many that feel they have the right to say whatever is on their mind to whoever they want, without consequences. That is happening across all generations right now across all sorts of topics. It seems the keyboard warriors have been fortified by social media and feel safe to take their opinions on the road. 

He and his wife showed her grace by not escalating the situation and I truly believe that is better than trying to “fix” someone you don’t know and have presumed even needs fixing and presumed you have the ability to fix. I am also an empath and understand what you are saying, but that level of involvement with strangers has proven dangerous at times. Walking away is often showing much more care than getting more involved.


----------



## Girl_power

Bluesclues said:


> I think you meant Gen Z, us Gen X folks don’t have feelings.
> 
> I think there are a lot of assumptions being made about this young woman, that she must have something wrong with her to accost strangers. You went as far as to presume she has never seen a loving relationship. This might actually just be her point of view, it doesn’t make her damaged as you imply. And either way I don’t think Cromer ‘mansplaining‘ to her the aspects of what a loving relationship entails would have the healing impact you imagine.
> 
> The problem isn’t her beliefs (even though I don’t share them) it was her choice of audience and venue to share them with. I believe she is just one of the many that feel they have the right to say whatever is on their mind to whoever they want, without consequences. That is happening across all generations right now across all sorts of topics. It seems the keyboard warriors have been fortified by social media and feel safe to take their opinions on the road.
> 
> He and his wife showed her grace by not escalating the situation and I truly believe that is better than trying to “fix” someone you don’t know and have presumed even needs fixing and presumed you have the ability to fix. I am also an empath and understand what you are saying, but that level of involvement with strangers has proven dangerous at times. Walking away is often showing much more care than getting more involved.


Interesting point of view. I never thought of it this way... knowing her point of view and proudly speaking it, thus the issue being that she feels she can say whatever she wants to whomever she wants. Hmm I understand then why that needs to be “shut down”. 

I agree that the OP handled it beautifully. 

And I agree wholeheartedly that these “keyboard warriors” have a unearned sense of entitlement and are bringing it to the streets. I don’t know how to handle them when they do this.


----------



## RandomDude

Girl_power said:


> I don’t know how to handle them when they do this.


Well you can always try my way


----------



## Laurentium

Girl_power said:


> I never thought of it this way... knowing her point of view and proudly speaking it, thus the issue being that she feels she can say whatever she wants to whomever she wants.


I don't believe our human rights include the right to tell your opinions to people you don't know, in public, and in a way of scolding or correcting them. That, I believe, is called "judgemental", with the emphasis on the "mental". Making yourself the corrections officer of the world; a freelance uninvited and untrained critic. Just take a look at twitter.


----------



## Luminous

My sympathy/empathy towards people has limits.

If someone is trying to do the right thing (ethcially/morally) but having trouble of some sort, if I can offer assistance (and they are accepting of it) I will.

There is now at least a generation (or 2), that have never known REAL hardship. The 'conveniences' have always been there, they have never known anything different (e.g. Internet, mobile/cell phones, social media etc.)

And so their 'grievances', whilst valid in their eyes, compared to previous times, needs some perspective. It paints a picture that things really are not too bad in western cultures. We have hot water, instantaneous communication across the world, endless access to entertainment, access to medical supplies and hospitals (mostly), greatly enhanced mobility due to motor vehicle access, the ability to move freely (albeit limited this year of course).

Sometimes, when people don't realise they have it so good, they amplify problems in their life because there are no circumstances effecting their ability to survive.


----------



## TomNebraska

Luminous said:


> ...
> There is now at least a generation (or 2), that have never known REAL hardship. The 'conveniences' have always been there, they have never known anything different
> 
> ...


Yeah, Baby Boomers have had it pretty good... long term economic stability, no pandemics interrupting their prime earning years, good paying jobs - with or without a college degree, good public health, cheap personal healthcare, cheap college if they wanted it...


----------



## blahfridge

I'm late to the party on this thread, lol, but I have to say that it seems like this young woman has serious mental issues. I agree that you cannot take incidents like this and generalize from it as indicative of a generation or a group. I also see these kinds of posts on social media all the time and find it disturbing that so many gleefully respond with ridicule about someone who is clearly ill. A while back it was a young woman in a fast food restaurant who jumped on the counter and started screaming and cursing at the employees because they told her she had to wear a mask. After she left I wondered if she was going to be assaulted in the street and found dead in an alley somewhere. I'm sorry that happened to you and your wife, OP. I hope her mom is able to get this girl some help.


----------



## paco2000

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't actually blame it on feminism. There are some people with a heap of anger inside them, and they'll find any cause that gives them a designated enemy to point it at. And then there are people who will lead a cause and exploit the angry. Look at any political party.
> 
> That young woman has some serious issues. The thing she is complaining of, is the thing she is. That's so often the case.


I am not from USA but, to my humble observation, the problem is with your pop culture that tells young people how they should live their lives, which always seem to me as pure fantasy that does not have a grip in reality.

Good health to all of us.


----------



## Blondilocks

TomNebraska said:


> Yeah, Baby Boomers have had it pretty good... long term economic stability, no pandemics interrupting their prime earning years, good paying jobs - with or without a college degree, good public health, cheap personal healthcare, cheap college if they wanted it...


You're such a kidder.


----------



## manowar

karen is a product of the frankfurt school. I would have literally told her to **** OFF.


----------



## farsidejunky

Laurentium said:


> I don't believe our human rights include the right to tell your opinions to people you don't know, in public, and in a way of scolding or correcting them. That, I believe, is called "judgemental", with the emphasis on the "mental". Making yourself the corrections officer of the world; a freelance uninvited and untrained critic. Just take a look at twitter.


Somewhere in the last 10 years, "Live and let live" has been replaced with "Think as I do or else".

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhusband0005

Cromer said:


> I had no intention of posting about this but dang, the more I think about it the more I am animated about the situation and wanted to vent. It's late, can't sleep. But it's so crazy that it's hard to believe it happened. Keep in mind we live in a college town.
> 
> For reference, I was raised as an old school Southern Gentleman by my grandmother. I mean in every way. I open doors, walk on the street side, pull out the chair, stand up when a woman approaches me when seated at a table, etc. It is basic to who I am as a man. My grandmother beat it into me that I don't know my own strength, so it is important that I show the women around me respect and to protect them. I make no apologies for who I am, and my wife loves that about me because it's not something she's had in her life before our relationship.
> 
> Today my wife and I decided to leave our cocoon of isolation and got out to eat at a new restaurant we've been wanting to try. Our state is completely open and businesses have reasonable rules. We have matching pirate masks which her students think are really cool LOL. Anyway, when leaving the restaurant, I opened the door for her, then the car door, asked if she was "all in", then closed it. I always do this for her.
> 
> Then this young lady, I estimate around 20 or so, walked up to me as I was getting into the car and straight out said “You’re such a misogynist” and was “disrespecting the woman you're with" and that “it's shameful that I am so public with my hatred of women”. I didn't know what to say other than "I'm not disrespecting anyone and I respect my wife." She then started on a tirade about the patriarchy and all kinds of other crap, getting into my face. My wife jumps out of the car and I thought there was going to be a genuine catfight. Finally, a woman who I think was her mother came over and dragged her way. Frankly, I was so stunned by it all I didn't know what to say or how to react. WTF is going on with these people? Why are so many people wanting to tell us how to live our lives? We were frankly shocked by the craziness. This is just a vent but what happened to let people live their lives in the way they want to live? Anyhow, not a big deal but not something that we expected during a simple dinner date.


This gave me a good laugh. I had an experience similar to this. My wife went to a top all womens college. When we were dating I use to go visit often. One day I was going to meet her at the student center and got to the main entrance and a small group of girls were a bit behind me but I stopped and held the door for them. Two of them got all offended and went into a tirade that they didn't need a guy to hold the door for them they were completely capable on their own etc.. I politely listened to them while still holding the door open and since I was not arguing they finally just stopped. So I responded by saying, if it makes you feel better I would have held the door open if you were guys too. Then just let it close behind me and went inside.


----------



## Cromer

happyhusband0005 said:


> This gave me a good laugh. I had an experience similar to this. My wife went to a top all womens college. When we were dating I use to go visit often. One day I was going to meet her at the student center and got to the main entrance and a small group of girls were a bit behind me but I stopped and held the door for them. Two of them got all offended and went into a tirade that they didn't need a guy to hold the door for them they were completely capable on their own etc.. I politely listened to them while still holding the door open and since I was not arguing they finally just stopped. So I responded by saying, if it makes you feel better I would have held the door open if you were guys too. Then just let it close behind me and went inside.


I participate in a forum about military children. A few days ago I saw a post from a mother who said their daughter, after a year in college, dyed her hair blue, got a bunch of tatts and piercings, gained a lot of weight, had an abortion, and has gone full-on woke to the point of disrespecting her parents to an obscene degree, to include her father's military career (i.e. it is a disgrace that her college is funded by his killing children in Iraq). They are of Indian descent but she's been calling her parents racists, white apologists, bigots, etc. Her school was being paid for by her father's Post 9/11 GI Bill, which includes tuition, housing/living stipend of about $1300 per month, and $1000 per year for books. 

She ultimately went no contact with her family. Her father had enough and withdrew her GI Bill eligibility last Spring. She dropped out of school because she couldn't qualify for aid due to her parent's income, and is now working for minimum wage and trying to get her father to change his mind. He won't and transferred his remaining GI Bill months of eligibility to their son who goes to college next year. Now they are afraid of what college will do to their son and asking advice.

My son texts me pictures of the crazy flyers on campus, and of other crazy things he sees. He's basically bunkered down, has a "no contact" policy with girls (except his future wife), and can't wait to graduate and get out of that environment. There's a reason that today's US marriage rate is at the lowest it's been since records started being kept in the 1870's.


----------



## Blondilocks

Colleges and universities have reputations. Some are known as party schools and some are known for their activism etc. A parent has to carefully vet a school which will absorb a good chunk of change. The schools may or may not influence the students; but do you want to take a chance? Vet the school just as you would the program - who wants to waste money on a psychology or history or literature degree.


----------



## Cromer

Blondilocks said:


> Colleges and universities have reputations. Some are known as party schools and some are known for their activism etc. A parent has to carefully vet a school which will absorb a good chunk of change. The schools may or may not influence the students; but do you want to take a chance? Vet the school just as you would the program - who wants to waste money on a psychology or history or literature degree.


I had a long-standing policy with my kids that they heard over and over since they were young. I will pay for your college, but only if the degree leads to a good job. I had a long list of no-go degrees that I refused to pay for, such as anything ending in "Studies" (i.e. Gender and Women's Studies), Psychology, History, English, Geography, etc. One of the best parenting decisions I've made.


----------



## MattMatt

Actually psychology would have been a good option as most people I knew who got degrees in psychology ended up getting jobs in marketing or advertising.


----------



## Rowan

History, English, and Geography are all great if one wants to teach. Or go into law, politics, business, government, public relations, etc. I started college as a history major, hoping to work for the National Archives as my father had once done, before I switched to geology. I have never once worked in the field of geology. Instead, I'm the chief of staff to an executive at a large corporation - for which a history, English, geography, or any other liberal arts degree would have been perfectly suitable, if not preferred.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I don't have an advanced degree. I reached a point in my education where I had to choose between student debt or a future mortgage. So I did what I had learned from my dad, when things get tough roll up your sleeves and go to work.
Now My dad had some other pithy advice about education, and a lot of very familiar blather about what degree is useful and what is not. Whenever any of my kids or nephews or nieces would come crying from him over saying their degree would be useless, my reply was consistent. I simply say Did you ask him how useful a degree in watershed management from an agricultural university would be? None of them ever dared to ask him. His off the wall degree provided him with precisely 2 years of part time employment in his retirement. But it led to a certification as a meteorologist, which got him a Job as an air force officer, Which in turn gave him enough business knowledge to succeed as an entrepreneur. So as an uneducated hick, My thinking is it is not all that important what you take your degree in. It is more about if you learn how to think.


----------



## bobert

Cromer said:


> I had a long-standing policy with my kids that they heard over and over since they were young. I will pay for your college, but only if the degree leads to a good job. I had a long list of no-go degrees that I refused to pay for, such as anything ending in "Studies" (i.e. Gender and Women's Studies), Psychology, History, English, Geography, etc. One of the best parenting decisions I've made.


Those degrees can actually be quite useful (and required), depending on what career they hope to have.

I ****ed around a bit and started with engineering, then advertising and marketing, then finally got my BBA and a bachelors in psychology, then my MBA later on (paid for by my company). The BBA was required for my job, the marketing background was a bonus, but it's the psych degree that got me where I am. Marketing and sales LOVES that ****.


----------



## Cromer

bobert said:


> Those degrees can actually be quite useful (and required), depending on what career they hope to have.
> 
> I **ed around a bit and started with engineering, then advertising and marketing, then finally got my BBA and a bachelors in psychology, then my MBA later on (paid for by my company). The BBA was required for my job, the marketing background was a bonus, but it's the psych degree that got me where I am. Marketing and sales LOVES that **.


Oh, I don't doubt there is a working life behind some of these degrees, especially if one gets an advanced degree or tie it to something else. But for every success story like yours, you can find the psychology degree working at Starbucks with $70k in student loan debt, or the art history degree who can't find a job.

There is a viral video of someone talking to college students on campus, asking what they were studying, then what career they wanted. It was sad to watch the massive disconnect in their thinking. Having taught at the college level and advised students, many don't think about what career they want, just the degree subject they want.

I love history, but would never advise anyone to major in it unless it was for a teaching credential. According to Money Inc, history was the worst degree for employment prospects in 2019, and many other of those types of degrees are in the worst 20. My kids were free to pursue any of these degrees, I just wasn't going to pay for it. I know it sounds harsh.


----------



## bobert

Cromer said:


> Oh, I don't doubt there is a working life behind some of these degrees, especially if one gets an advanced degree or tie it to something else. But for every success story like yours, you can find the psychology degree working at Starbucks with $70k in student loan debt, or the art history degree who can't find a job.
> 
> There is a viral video of someone talking to college students on campus, asking what they were studying, then what career they wanted. It was sad to watch the massive disconnect in their thinking. Having taught at the college level and advised students, many don't think about what career they want, just the degree subject they want.
> 
> I love history, but would never advise anyone to major in it unless it was for a teaching credential. According to Money Inc, history was the worst degree for employment prospects in 2019, and many other of those types of degrees are in the worst 20. My kids were free to pursue any of these degrees, I just wasn't going to pay for it. I know it sounds harsh.


Yeah, I plan on paying for my kids schooling but if one of them came to me and said they wanted a BA in psychology and had no plans to double major or continue onto graduate school... I wouldn't be a fan of the idea.


----------



## MattMatt

Psychology degrees can be useful for s career as a counsellor.

I have a BA in creative and professional writing. Which my company made me take.


----------



## Cromer

MattMatt said:


> Psychology degrees can be useful for s career as a counsellor.
> 
> I have a BA in creative and professional writing. Which my company made me take.


It's not only the psychology degree and becoming a counselor, one has to be good at it. That often means maturity and life experience, which these Starbucks baristas don't have, unfortunately. Getting a BA in psychology and expecting to be gainfully employed is a shaky proposition on its own. Kinda like Criminal Justice. Let's be honest about this. This forum is strewn with disaster stories about counselors and psychologists who are therapists. Blaming innocent spouses for affairs, for example. To be fair that can be said of any career, but statistically having only a psychology degree doesn't do much for anyone without pursuing higher degrees from what I've read. But hey, not my circus just an opinion.

Frankly, I think many mental related fields of thought are bunk grown from a modern feminized educational and coddling culture, so I have a bias.


----------



## Laurentium

MattMatt said:


> Psychology degrees can be useful for a career as a counsellor.


As a counsellor, I would disagree. Many psychology degrees are very general. A bit about neurons, a bit about rats in mazes and learning theory, a LOT of statistical techniques, the history of the field, Pavlov and conditioning, maybe some organisational dynamics, some child development. (Unless the degree is specifically "counselling psychology" or focused on counselling.)

For someone who wanted to be a counsellor, I'd say, do a first degree in anything that really fascinates you. Have some relationships, get some life experience, and get some therapy, talk about your parents, maybe even try therapy of several different kinds. And then do a masters or doctorate in counselling.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Cletus

Laurentium said:


> As a counsellor, I would disagree. Many psychology degrees are very general. A bit about neurons, a bit about rats in mazes and learning theory, a LOT of statistical techniques, the history of the field, Pavlov and conditioning, maybe some organisational dynamics, some child development. (Unless the degree is specifically "counselling psychology" or focused on counselling.)


I have to agree. My brother is a research psychologist of some national merit who would in all likelihood be a disaster as a counselor. But he definitely knows his research methods, math, and child development.


----------



## pastasauce79

Laurentium said:


> As a counsellor, I would disagree. Many psychology degrees are very general. A bit about neurons, a bit about rats in mazes and learning theory, a LOT of statistical techniques, the history of the field, Pavlov and conditioning, maybe some organisational dynamics, some child development. (Unless the degree is specifically "counselling psychology" or focused on counselling.)
> 
> For someone who wanted to be a counsellor, I'd say, do a first degree in anything that really fascinates you. Have some relationships, get some life experience, and get some therapy, talk about your parents, maybe even try therapy of several different kinds. And then do a masters or doctorate in counselling.
> 
> Just my opinion.


My major was educational psychology in another country. I had 1.5 years of general psychology, physiology, statistics, history, etc. classes, and 3 years of specialized classes; learning disabilities, learning techniques, research, diagnosis, etc. I finished 4 out of 5 years of college. 

I came to the US thinking I could finish college here and work as a school counselor. Schooling is very different here. I couldn't use a BA degree in psychology and be a school counselor. My plan then was to switch to social work and get a master's in social work. They don't get paid much so I changed my mind.

I would not recommend studying psychology unless they have the money to continue studying at the master's degree or PhD level.


----------



## Cletus

pastasauce79 said:


> I would not recommend studying psychology unless they have the money to continue studying at the master's degree or PhD level.


True. Anything less than a master's degree in that field is a severely career limiting move.


----------



## Lance Mannion

Cromer said:


> Good point. My son was doing this and I had to get smart about what was out there. He talked "red pill", was questioning his relationship, was sure he knew "female nature", was sure she couldn't be monogamous, got paranoid about his girlfriend thinking she was always looking to "better deal" him and would monkey branch, etc. All kinds of things. I think he's over it now but it took a lot of work to deprogram him. She's a gem of a young woman btw. Sadly it started with finding out what his mother did when we did DNA tests. He was affected most by our divorce.


I think you've misinterpreted a number of issues/terms.

What you described in that young woman was not "Karenism" (a sense of entitlement over "lesser" people, especially service workers) it is wokeness, rabid liberalism.

As for your son, you can't deprogram people from reality, you deprogram them from false beliefs. Men and women have natures, hard wired behavioral patterns that always operate in the background and if conscious thought or cultural habits weaken, then the base behavior dominates. Just because you're son is getting married is NOT an invalidation of his beliefs. Your own 1st marriage falsified your own belief in your 1st wife's monogamous commitment to you. Your son, is like all men, hoping that his wife will remain faithful (and women have the same hope for their husbands)

Back to the woke chick and tying this into female nature. During China's Cultural Revolution, it was the female Red Guards who were the most ideologically committed, Western liberalism is heavily female-dominated. Even in religious movements/organizations, it is women who are the predominate enforces of religious instruction within families, most involved in church activities and most committed to attending services/mass. This is NOT saying that men can't be fanatics, of course they can, but there is something about group ideological cohesion which resonates with women.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Note:- *Threadjack removed.


----------



## jlg07

My son always loved the idea of counseling and helping people. He was actually told NOT to get a psychology degree -- he got a dual bachelors in Social work and (because he loves it) philosophy, and then his masters in Social work. He was told psychology is more of a white paper type of degree where social work is much more hands-on practical work for counseling.


----------

