# Husband's "paradise" work trip - am I being unreasonable?



## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Husband and I have been together 15 years, and have a strong relationship. We don't have kids, no family close-by and few friends.
About a year ago he started a new job which implies regular travel, usually one or two 4-5 days hotel stays per month. I don't like it but I can cope with it.
A few months ago, he announced that his company was organising a two-week "reward" trip to the Seychelles (where around 60% of employees are based). While there have been a few days of light work in the office, most evening and days have been leisure, with pool parties, boat trips, diving excursions, Michelin star meals etc.
He seems to have been out pretty much every night, sipping cocktails in the pool until the early hours. They are staying in one of the most luxurious 5* beach resorts, with rooms I can never dare afford (I suppose this is company "thank you" and a way of making employees loyal).
Over the past two weeks, we've spoken every day (though he usually only calls when I prompt him by text, I don't want to call and disturb him). But we've spoken very little and in a rushed way (a few minutes before going to breakfast/evening or - drunken - minutes at 3am coming back from a party to tell me he was feeling sick etc).

Now I know it's work, and he keeps telling me he has that "no choice", that he has to play the game even if that implies drinking a lot and staying up late (he is quite high ranked in the company and has competition from another colleague). We share pictures so I can see what he is doing. Obviously part of me feels horribly jealous - we don't go on holiday very often, and always in "budget" places. I have a solitary job with no similar opportunity. Part of me also feels worried and anxious. I don't like this necessary "free flow" alcohol game and I feel some of his bosses/colleagues have a bad influence. 
I haven't been coping well with the trip, I cry pretty much every day and haven't been able to sleep.

There is history too: he worked briefly for that same company 10 years ago and had a drunken fling with a colleague one evening. We put that episode behind us, but his boss a few days ago started jokingly telling the other colleagues about the incident. I think this is really nasty of the boss to bring a 10 year old story back.

Yesterday he rang me when coming back from the party at 5am to tell me that he had been drinking for about 12 hours straight, and that some of his married male colleagues started "playing" in the pool with younger female colleagues. I trust him, and I don't think he did anything. But it really makes me feel queasy. Is that what work is about? 

So today as he was coming back from another luxury boat trip, I couldn't cope any more and told him that I love him but _hate the company he works for_. He is angry at me for saying that. Am I just being a jealous unreasonable wife? 😔


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I think you’re right to worry, he cheated at the company before. Probably up to something now.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Good grief snowbum not everyone is having an affair or cheating just because they have the opportunity, why not put more worries in the op head. 

I went on a seven day cruise in the med with my company, plenty of drinking but I was not shagging anyone.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Without my wife obv


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LauraLondon said:


> Husband and I have been together 15 years, and have a strong relationship. We don't have kids, no family close-by and few friends.
> About a year ago he started a new job which implies regular travel, usually one or two 4-5 days hotel stays per month. I don't like it but I can cope with it.
> A few months ago, he announced that his company was organising a two-week "reward" trip to the Seychelles (where around 60% of employees are based). While there have been a few days of light work in the office, most evening and days have been leisure, with pool parties, boat trips, diving excursions, Michelin star meals etc.
> He seems to have been out pretty much every night, sipping cocktails in the pool until the early hours. They are staying in one of the most luxurious 5* beach resorts, with rooms I can never dare afford (I suppose this is company "thank you" and a way of making employees loyal).
> ...


I got to tell you I don't trust men on business trips where it's all centered around partying because I've been in the middle of those kind of things and women are usually on the menu. Of course it is possible to be faithful, but he already has a history of taking part so that is what would make me nervous. And I think staying up till 3:00 or 5:00 a.m. is way beyond the call of duty, don't you?


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Thanks both. I think I trust him in that particular case - I mean, he told me about what his colleagues did and seemed a little uneasy about it himself. But I worry about what they may make him do in the future as he is easy to influence (he is not the social type so tends to follow). He doesn't seem to share my worry and thinks I am just being jealous.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Very difficult. I see your are from the UK and my views here are also from a UK perspective . I understand this type of reward system is more common in the States and they have a different view of all this. 

This isn't about sex (although he had a very poor track record here),it is about respect and the way he treats you.

He obviously works hard and deserves the rewards but I think it is so inappropriate for this company to exclude wives, husbands, partners etc. I know my feelings aren't right but I would be so p*#sed off right now with the whole situation. This company seems very out of touch with the modern world, has an unbelievably immature culture and immature bosses. Still, with your husband's incredibly immature behaviour (drinking until he is sick, what is he 15?), it sounds as though he fits right in. Not only that, he rubs your face in it every day. 

The boss talking about his previous "indiscretion" is unbelievable. Is your husband revelling in these disclosures, enjoying the cuedos for being such a player? This breach of confidence by the manager is, in my opinion, a major disciplinary matter.

I am sorry, but I do not think you have as strong a relationship as you think and he needs to do some serious growing up. He needs to show you far more respect, recognise the impact his little boy jaunts have on you and he needs to change his job because this is only going to build further resentment. 

In the mean time, I think you need to look at your needs in this relationship because your husband is behaving like a complete and utter pr*ck.

Finally, who actually wants to go on these reward holidays, 7 day cruises etc without their partners? Isn't who you are with rather than where you are and what does this say about their attitudes towards their relationships. May be I am just too old fashioned.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

> And I think staying up till 3:00 or 5:00 p.m. iswWay beyond the call of duty don't you?


He's told me on several nights that he wanted to go to bed earlier but didn't want to leave for fear of how he would be judged. Social pressure, I guess. 🙄
He's not of the "popular guy" type, so it may make him feel important to be up late with the other men. But whether he tells the truth, I don't know.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I think you are and agree with him.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I am sorry for the angst this has caused you. My wife and I had issues similar to yours, only I was in the military and deploying for long periods of time. Now I don't drink, nor has my wife ever seen me drink. That's a plus for us. It can be torment for the spouses left behind and I speak from our experience. In your case much more so for his indiscretion years before.
So I take it the company does not allow accompanied trips on these occasions? If not I can full well understand your disdain for these trips away. Certainly your husband and you should have a very real discussion about these trips when he returns. It is causing you real PTSD when he goes on them. He needs to be aware of this and either arrange for your inclusion on them, or seriously consider another job that allows for a healthy marriage...IMO.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

He needs to change jobs, or change life partners.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Harold Demure said:


> Very difficult. I see your are from the UK and my views here are also from a UK perspective . I understand this type of reward system is more common in the States and they have a different view of all this.
> 
> This isn't about sex (although he had a very poor track record here),it is about respect and the way he treats you.
> 
> ...


Exactly, I don't really have a problem with his routine business trips that may occasionally involve late night drinks etc. But this feels so different, being two weeks long, far away, and focused on leisure and luxury. The company was founded by two guys who come from big consultancy firms, unsurprisingly perhaps, all divorced. I understand those trips are part of the "traditional" culture.

I can understand "team building" days or weekends aimed at helping people work better together. But I don't see the point in weeks-long staff holidays, except creating resentment in partners and potentially dangerous situations (colleagues flirting, cheating, saying stupid things when drunk etc). I must be old-fashioned too!

Regarding the incident, I also think it was an incredibly poor show and I am really upset to have had what was an incident in our couple openly disclosed to all his colleagues (and possibly laughed at etc). I haven't had the time to have a meaningful discussion with my husband but if he doesn't act on it when he comes back, I am honestly tempted to go and talk to his boss. It feels like a "make or break" situation to me.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> I am sorry for the angst this has caused you. My wife and I had issues similar to yours, only I was in the military and deploying for long periods of time. Now I don't drink, nor has my wife ever seen me drink. That's a plus for us. It can be torment for the spouses left behind and I speak from our experience. In your case much more so for his indiscretion years before.
> So I take it the company does not allow accompanied trips on these occasions? If not I can full well understand your disdain for these trips away. Certainly your husband and you should have a very real discussion about these trips when he returns. It is causing you real PTSD when he goes on them. He needs to be aware of this and either arrange for your inclusion on them, or seriously consider another job that allows for a healthy marriage...IMO.


Thank you x. He had a previous job that also involved some weekend trips, though in the UK and far from being as luxurious. Partners were always invited. There was a lot of booze too, but it felt so much more enjoyable to get to know his colleagues, and IMO, creating a healthier work culture by breaking the "barrier", even for just a day or two.
It seems to be more common now in companies to keep spouses away, whether it's budget or culture related. 🤷‍♀️


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LauraLondon said:


> he worked briefly for that same company 10 years ago and had a drunken fling with a colleague one evening.


The suspecting him of misbehavior isn't strange at all, is it? Considering he's already gone on a trip with this company and had an affair it's not at all odd to wonder if this is a re-run.



LauraLondon said:


> I trust him, and I don't think he did anything.


I'd bet you also trusted him the first time he went on a work trip with this company and cheated on you.



LauraLondon said:


> I worry about what_* they may make him do*_ in the future as he is easy to influence


If he's that much of a spineless follower then why in the everloving Hell did either of you think it a good idea for him to go back to work for the company he was at when he had the affair? That's...asinine.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

I've never heard of one of these "reward" trips where spouses were not invited... That, and the way his boss and some colleagues are acting would have me concerned.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

MJJEAN said:


> e he went on a work trip with this company and cheated on you.
> 
> If he's that much of a spineless follower then why in the everloving Hell did either of you think it a good idea for him to go back to work for the company he was at when he had the affair? That's...asinine.


The incident 10 years ago didn't happen on a trip but on a weekday outing following a dinner. He called me to pick him up 
No, I was uncomfortable with him going back to work for that company. Not because of the woman (she left a long time ago), but because his bosses/colleagues from then are still around. He assured me it would be different, that they had grown up etc but they don't seem to have changed. They are also younger ones who seem to follow the path (one of the guys I mentioned earlier that were having "fun" in the pool got married last year). I guess this _is _the company culture.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LauraLondon said:


> The incident 10 years ago didn't happen on a trip but on a weekday outing following a dinner. He called me to pick him up
> No, I was uncomfortable with him going back to work for that company. Not because of the woman (she left a long time ago), but because his bosses/colleagues from then are still around. He assured me it would be different, that they had grown up etc but they don't seem to have changed. They are also younger ones who seem to follow the path (one of the guys I mentioned earlier that were having "fun" in the pool got married last year). I guess this _is _the company culture.


This job would be a dealbreaker for me. I'm not you, of course, but I'd tell him to either find another job within <insert reasonable timeframe> or we're over.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Reward trips/cruises in my company are for team bonding not family entertainment, most just enjoy good food a free bar and a good laugh, are there some "antics" of course but as in most situations it is a very small minority.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

It sounds like this company culture is toxic. Any company where you feel pressured to drink all day/night every day for like 2 straight weeks is a company asking you to be extreme, and unhealthy. It's one thing if it was 3-4 days, but 2 weeks of THAT much drinking and partying is insane.

Also, the affair he had 10 years ago (I assume you were married?) is a major problem - and it seems the company is reveling in it. Bad.

If this was just a luxurious reward trip, I'd tell you that you were overreacting. But given the constant drinking for that long and the affair/hookup, I think you have every right to be unhappy about this. Seems like a company that encourages bad behavior. If your H feels peer pressure to get drunk for 2 straight weeks, who's to say he won't feel peer pressure to bang some young coworker?


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Kput said:


> Reward trips/cruises in my company are for team bonding not family entertainment, most just enjoy good food a free bar and a good laugh, are there some "antics" of course but as in most situations it is a very small minority.


I think it would feel less terrible if they had a vaguely "sensible" rhythm. But the combination of high levels of alcohol, leisure activities and late nights/limited sleep for two weeks sounds a bit extreme and rather risky/stupid. It's not a minority in this case - it's most of the foreign staff that are staying at the resort.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Should have left him after the ''drunken fling.'' He's behaving like an 18 yo guy at a frat party. Ugh.

I'm really cut and dry with adultery, and he has shown that he hasn't changed since the ''fling.'' No company is forcing their employees to drink for 12 hours straight. lol He chooses to.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

I have real concerns that your husband is not going to see what the problem is here. To be honest, I think he actually enjoys the culture of the company he has returned to and any platitudes he gives you about people having grown up or wanting to go to bed earlier but couldn't are said to shut you up.

I am concerned that he will view you as being paranoid, unreasonable and so forth, just wanting to stop him from having fun, his job pays for all the good things you have in life etc. That's fine if you want to be a Stetford Wife but that really does not seem to be you.

I think you have a very good attitude towards the other instances where he travels and your view on this trip is very reasonable. The question is, how do you get your husband's head from out of his a*#se? Is it worth getting him to read this thread and, if he does not respond, doing the 180? I do think you need to do something because he is going to get increasingly drawn into the company's culture at your expense. He will see divorced men in powerful positions and think well may be it's not that bad.

Sorry, but he needs to quit.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Two weeks is a bit long, my last one was eight days, the drinking can get out of hand and a 24 hour bar does not help but "antics" really are a small minority. Sounds like he will be glad to come home to you.

Innocent until proven guilty maybe.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Kput said:


> Two weeks is a bit long, my last one was eight days, the drinking can get out of hand and a 24 hour bar does not help but "antics" really are a small minority. Sounds like he will be glad to come home to you.
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty maybe.


Separating his innocence on this trip from the toxic company he works for, perhaps. The company has got to go, though, at minimum.

In OP's shoes I'd make a strong suggestion that he find a new place to work.

I can only imagine these bros talking about the "ball and chain" at home, any time he calls. And her husband just being sheepish in response. They're probably like, "Hey, remember when you shagged what's her face?"

I will give him credit for telling OP that his coworkers brought it up. Not sure I would have.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Two weeks of work vacation is insane.

Many people can't even take 2 weeks vacation with a partner.

It's over the top decadent.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

Kput said:


> Reward trips/cruises in my company are for team bonding not family entertainment, most just enjoy good food a free bar and a good laugh, are there some "antics" of course but as in most situations it is a very small minority.


Okay. I think it's different at most companies in the US.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Thing is most guys in a group tell bs stories and talk b0llocks and most of the time it is just that. My team is no different, everyone is a sex god lol, I am no different.

The op husband is probably looking forward to being home


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

E37, depends if it is coming out of annual holiday allowance, in my case no.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Two weeks of work vacation is insane.
> 
> Many people can't even take 2 weeks vacation with a partner.
> 
> It's over the top decadent.


Funny you should say that. We haven't taken two weeks holidays in years. We had our first holiday post-COVID in September and that was 10 days, because he couldn't take more due to work reasons.

Thank you all for your suggestions. It has been invaluable in making me realise there _is _something wrong here, not just me being bored/jealous at home! 🙏
I have sent him a loving but stern long email which he will read on the plane home (he's flying back tomorrow). I have been very clear about my feelings, but also about things he's said in the past which haven't turned true (like the fact that his bosses/colleagues had changed). 

The more I think about it, the more I realise I never had a problem with the other companies he worked for, despite work parties etc too. With what happened in 10 years ago (and other things he's told me) I was nervous with him going back to work for that company and I guess my intuition was right.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> I can only imagine these bros talking about the "ball and chain" at home, any time he calls. And her husband just being sheepish in response. They're probably like, "Hey, remember when you shagged what's her face?"


Well, he sort of has to hide to call me because he's had comments (teasing) about it, and sometimes hangs up if a colleague turns up (even though he's only saying mundane things, like what they did on the day or what they ate). That feels really stupid.
His colleagues are of two types - divorced middle-aged or just out of university graduates. I guess that must contribute to the work culture where partners don't really have a place.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

LauraLondon said:


> Funny you should say that. We haven't taken two weeks holidays in years. We had our first holiday post-COVID in September and that was 10 days, because he couldn't take more due to work reasons.
> 
> Thank you all for your suggestions. It has been invaluable in making me realise there _is _something wrong here, not just me being bored/jealous at home! 🙏
> I have sent him a loving but stern long email which he will read on the plane home (he's flying back tomorrow). I have been very clear about my feelings, but also about things he's said in the past which haven't turned true (like the fact that his bosses/colleagues had changed).
> ...


I think he is spinning all of this info he's giving you to make himself look innocent. He doesn't HAVE to drink until morning, he wants to and doesn't want to look like the bad husband. His boss bringing up the past fling was certainly "locker room" talk and there was bragging involved. I can't think of any other scenario where that kind of stuff just 'comes up' in conversation. Odds probably aren't too bad he was one of the guys in the pool with the younger women. He's telling you the abridged version of all of these events (and these are likely the most harmless ones) so he can later say "I told you about that." if it ever comes up again. 
Who knows if he is screwing around on you but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and he's not making much of an effort to avoid the risks. You obviously need to state your boundaries very clearly because he seems to not have much of an inclination or clue to them or uses semantics to skate around them.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Two things, he needs to grow a backbone when dealing with his colleagues. Second he really does sound both contrite and innocent


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think he is spinning all of this info he's giving you to make himself look innocent.


I did wonder about that, because he has been giving me _some_ information. He actually told me he was in the pool with the young women. Whether he participated in the antics or not is a different story (he said no, obviously). I have no contact with his colleagues (not that it would be of any use I think) so I can only know what he tells me. But I think I have enough information from the past and other things he's told me to justify being worried and wanting to set boundaries, as you say...


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Oh dear, red flags all over the place for me in post #30. 

Firstly, he is under extreme peer group pressure demonstrated by his hiding his phone calls. So, how does he behave when he gets off the phone and goes back to the group? I think we know he behaves how they expect him to. Not saying he is cheating but ....,,

Secondly, you describe two types of employees but they have one thing in common, THEY ARE NOT MARRIED and neither is your spouse going to be if he doesn't sort himself out.

I would strongly urge you to decide what you are going to do when he gets back. What are you going to do, to say and how are you going to behave? Personally, I would not be the loving, open armed wife when he walks through the door but you will need to prepare for his tantrums if you do that because he has had the flight home to think about things.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Harold Demure said:


> I would strongly urge you to decide what you are going to do when he gets back. What are you going to do, to say and how are you going to behave? Personally, I would not be the loving, open armed wife when he walks through the door but you will need to prepare for his tantrums if you do that because he has had the flight home to think about things.


I'm not planning to. I didn't go too far in the email I've sent him as I have no idea of when he'll read it, and I would rather have a "direct" reaction - I want him to think about things. But I'll be very, very clear about things when I pick him up from the airport.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

LauraLondon said:


> Well, he sort of has to hide to call me because he's had comments (teasing) about it, and sometimes hangs up if a colleague turns up (even though he's only saying mundane things, like what they did on the day or what they ate). That feels really stupid.
> His colleagues are of two types - divorced middle-aged or just out of university graduates. I guess that must contribute to the work culture where partners don't really have a place.


he hangs up on you? Is he 12?he really has no boundaries


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

party days and unlimited alcohol, girls around

I used to cheat 

This situation is devastating for marriage.

your husband couldn't be mad at you, you could work for the same company and it would drive him crazy thinking about what you did.

your husband should update his career goals, this company and marriage is not a good mix

You should let your husband know that you can't go on like this for long.


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## KayJC (5 mo ago)

LauraLondon said:


> Husband and I have been together 15 years, and have a strong relationship. We don't have kids, no family close-by and few friends.
> About a year ago he started a new job which implies regular travel, usually one or two 4-5 days hotel stays per month. I don't like it but I can cope with it.
> A few months ago, he announced that his company was organising a two-week "reward" trip to the Seychelles (where around 60% of employees are based). While there have been a few days of light work in the office, most evening and days have been leisure, with pool parties, boat trips, diving excursions, Michelin star meals etc.
> He seems to have been out pretty much every night, sipping cocktails in the pool until the early hours. They are staying in one of the most luxurious 5* beach resorts, with rooms I can never dare afford (I suppose this is company "thank you" and a way of making employees loyal).
> ...


My late husband's company "awarded" upper echelon staff with what was called "company upper staff get away." BUT that upper staff was only men. AND the wives of each of the upper staff were invited to go with their husbands. We went to Sea Island, GA., Greenbriar in Virginia, Boulders in Arizona, Bermuda,


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

bygone said:


> your husband couldn't be mad at you, you could work for the same company and it would drive him crazy thinking about what you did.


Yes!! I've asked him to think about how he would genuinely feel if it was me going to the Seychelles to party with colleagues. Having spent two weeks in a 5* star hotel going on fancy outings, he probably feels happy about the company right now (I'm guessing it's the point of such trips, reinforcing loyalty in the company, as much as improving teamwork). 
But I hope he manages to understand how _I_ feel. 
I worked as a mountain tour guide a few years ago, going away for 6-7 days and he hated it despite the fact that this was a 0-risk environment.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

So what did he answer to your question? My opinion is that a guy who cheats at work and purposely goes back to that crap environment will do it again.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

He’s a hypocrite. You posted because deep down you don’t trust him. And you probably shouldnt


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I am all for partying and going buck wild however I wouldn’t do it without my wife around.

I have done business trips in the last few years where people were up drinking until 5am, got thrown out of places, whatever. I would drink up until about 8:30pm and then go to bed. When they said, “Hey you’re a &$…” I’d say yeah whatever if you want some you don’t even need a piece you can have the whole thing right now. Then they’d go “what is wrong with him, he’s crazy” and then that’s it.

It’s pretty easy.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

do not attach meaning to such activities

it has no meaning other than the effort of young girls/boys to secure their place with the managers.

their experience is limited to alcohol and sex(sorry for the male point of view)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I know I have strong boundaries but there is no way that I would agree to a holiday like that without my partner. The company are asking for trouble. I mean we know what happens at office parties which are just one evening, this is 2 weeks of pool parties, getting drunk and goodness knows what else with no wives/husbands/partners there, what could possibly go wrong.   Its not a good place to work for a spouse who wants to be faithful in their marriage.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Exit37 said:


> I've never heard of one of these "reward" trips where spouses were not invited... That, and the way his boss and some colleagues are acting would have me concerned.


the banks in Ireland do it a lot , I don't agree with the idea , see some friends show photos on social media and it does not look good and I am not their husband , 

What I don't like was one of his work mates bringing up his past ,
I think the amount of drinking that is going on is not good for and person and if I was him I would be looking out for a job , this trip is not good for any of the people working there


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> What I don't like was one of his work mates bringing up his past ,
> I think the amount of drinking that is going on is not good for and person and if I was him I would be looking out for a job , this trip is not good for any of the people working there


It was his boss which kinda makes it worse, though I don't have the details of how it came into the conversation. He said that it was "boys banter" 
His boss (one of the company's partner) is 45 but has serious health issues brought by years of drinks, restaurant food, short nights and travel. I've asked him whether that's really an example he wants to follow because that's definitely not what I'm dreaming of!


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Sounds like the perfect place to work for single people and cheaters. Your husband is an unsafe partner in an unsafe environment for fidelity.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


LauraLondon said:



Yesterday he rang me when coming back from the party at 5am to tell me that he had been drinking for about 12 hours straight, and that some of his married male colleagues started "playing" in the pool with younger female colleagues. I trust him, and I don't think he did anything. But it really makes me feel queasy. Is that what work is about?

Click to expand...

*I'm kind of shocked - he's already SHOWN you how easily he can cheat on you. Being honest, you don't usually catch them the *first* time they cheat on you. For every rat you see, there are 50 you don't. I'd be willing to bet this guy has a _*long*_ string of events you know nothing about.

In either event, I'm absolutely amazed that you actually trust this man. I sure as hell wouldn't. 

You're being *naive*, and you're actually trying to make excuses for him, like he's a 15-year-old kid who might bend to "peer pressure" and do something bad. No wonder this guy has so much freedom - you've managed to delude yourself into thinking he's trustworthy. Time to stop deluding yourself and making excuses for the inexcusable.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


LauraLondon said:



.... because that's definitely not what I'm dreaming of!

Click to expand...

*Well OP, you got the "dreaming" part right. 

Take off the rose-colored glasses and stop making excuses for a GROWN MAN'S behavior.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

This just keeps getting worse. Is your husband really that stupid?

Definition of banter from Collins dictionary:

UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
Banter is teasing or joking talk that is amusingand friendly.
She heard Tom exchanging good-natured banter with Jane.
*Synonyms: *joking, kidding [informal], ribbing[informal], teasing More Synonyms of *banter*
2. VERB
If you banter with someone, you tease them or joke with them in an amusing, friendly way.

So your husband describes his boss’ remarks as boys banter. What he is actually saying is that your husband’s colleagues and he think that him cheating on you is amusing, worthy of joking about. Is that how you feel about his affair?

The level of disrespect here is atrocious.

Do you feel that your marriage is ever going to be the same after this trip?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Someone who cheated on his wife that would be open season for banter (at his expense) at places I have worked. Banter in the UK gets quite nasty I have observed. Dead parents, cancer, whatever… it’s all possible.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

The thing is, you are never going to know. 

Have the two of you talked about this issue?

And what is your relationship like, _generally?_


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Hmm yes, banter can be cruel in the UK (whatever the context). It's supposed to be fun but often in a sarcastic/mocking way too. 

We've honestly had a great, loving relationship. In fact, I would say that the big low was that event 10 years ago. It took us a while to get over it and rebuild trust. He left the company as a result of that and we agreed never to speak about it again (which is why I am so, so pissed off at the boss). 

No problem in his previous jobs (which had fewer "risks", but less of a party/drinking culture too, and what I would call more "stable" colleagues). Aside from work, he's always been very respectful. In fact, I am in a bit of shock too because I don't recognise his behaviour at all in those two weeks. This happened because he went back to work for this company, like what happened back then. 
Is he weak for letting himself get influenced by his bosses/colleagues? Yes, and I'm disappointed about that. I think he will have to choose between me and them, if we want a chance to even start addressing the issue.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

LauraLondon said:


> we agreed never to speak about it again (which is why I am so, so pissed off at the boss).


This does not sound like a healthy way to reconcile his affair. It sounds like it was rugswept. 
Did he ever show any remorse(not regret)?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Exit37 said:


> I've never heard of one of these "reward" trips where spouses were not invited... That, and the way his boss and some colleagues are acting would have me concerned.


Google does it, for one. I don't think spouses are ever invited.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

LauraLondon said:


> Well, he sort of has to hide to call me because he's had comments (teasing) about it, and sometimes hangs up if a colleague turns up (even though he's only saying mundane things, like what they did on the day or what they ate). That feels really stupid.
> His colleagues are of two types - divorced middle-aged or just out of university graduates. I guess that must contribute to the work culture where partners don't really have a place.


He has to hide his phone calls??? Wtf is that? Are you sure you're married to a man? Seriously! Sorry lady, but all I can say is what a wuss! I deployed Al over the world and NEVER hesitated to call my wife nor ever hid talking with her about how I loved her and missed her! When they finally got the at sea phones from ATT on the boat I loved that and was able to call at least once a week, just like the other guys and gals on the ship! Surprised my wife with a call from outside Hawaii for our anniversary!
I he finds it necessary to "hide" his calls of greeting and love to his wife, then it's time he found a new job, or you find yourself a new, REAL, man!


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

LauraLondon said:


> I did wonder about that, because he has been giving me _some_ information. He actually told me he was in the pool with the young women. Whether he participated in the antics or not is a different story (he said no, obviously). I have no contact with his colleagues (not that it would be of any use I think) so I can only know what he tells me. But I think I have enough information from the past and other things he's told me to justify being worried and wanting to set boundaries, as you say...


Madam, based on what you indicated happened 10 years ago on one of his trips with this company and now again back with this company on a major holiday extravaganza of a trip, how do YOU really feel. With what little he's telling you about things along with the minimizing of the events with the pool, the drinking and his very late drunkenness, I ask you this. In the 10 years since that "fling" what's changed with him? So many people here can tell you real stories of Bh/Bw's and what needs to happen to repair the damage from the these things. So again I ask you, what about HIM has changed? Only you can answer this. You, I feel every right to be be nervous. The party is out of sight, out of mind. You will only know what he tells you. You know he's been stupid drunk by his phone calls. Tells you of other married divorced men having decadent fun in a pool together mixed with the drinking and obvious approval of the main office. All the employees spouses are isolated and insulated from the event. Should you be worried, should you jealous, should express concern? By all I just said l, what do you think?


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

There is always going to be banter at work (and everywhere else). That’s not the issue.

The issue is the subject matter which is his infidelity. People are laughing at and about his cheating on you. They are either laughing at him or with him. Either way, indirectly, they are laughing at you.

This is never going to change whilst he remains at the company. It will always be there and his cheating on you will keep coming up as a joke or as banter because he will be “one of the guys”.

These people are so immature (husband included) that they will only think of the laughs they will get out of the banter and they will not think of you or your feelings.

His infidelity and all the issues it brings with it has resurfaced and is going to resurface time and time again when his boss or colleagues make a joke about it. Can you live with that and also knowing that all of his colleagues will know that he cheated on you?

I am sorry that I seem to be going down the doom and gloom route for your marriage in typical TAM manner. However, his behaviour over the last 2 weeks and the return of the rug swept affair would make me do a lot of soul searching and questioning about my relationship and deeper issues within it.

IMO, his quitting his job is just the start of the process.

Genuinely very sorry to be saying these things as I hate it when this forum attacks a marriage.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

LauraLondon said:


> Husband and I have been together 15 years, and have a strong relationship. We don't have kids, no family close-by and few friends.
> About a year ago he started a new job which implies regular travel, usually one or two 4-5 days hotel stays per month. I don't like it but I can cope with it.
> A few months ago, he announced that his company was organising a two-week "reward" trip to the Seychelles (where around 60% of employees are based). While there have been a few days of light work in the office, most evening and days have been leisure, with pool parties, boat trips, diving excursions, Michelin star meals etc.
> He seems to have been out pretty much every night, sipping cocktails in the pool until the early hours. They are staying in one of the most luxurious 5* beach resorts, with rooms I can never dare afford (I suppose this is company "thank you" and a way of making employees loyal).
> ...


Nothing that glamorous, but I use to have to travel for work. My wife thought business trips were glamorous. So I took her on a few. After a while, while I was working during the day or business dinner, she got tired of killing time waiting for me. After a while unless I would go early before the meetings started or stay late after the conference concluded, she didn't want to go.

I never cheated, so that is a difference. 

Right now jobs are crazy and job security is minimal. Since he has a wife and financial responsibilities, unless he has a hot prospect of another job, I would suggest that the wife, discuss that when the time is right that he change jobs or at least move in the company so he doesn't have as much travel.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are you two? I don't think you've mentioned it.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

LauraLondon said:


> Thanks both. I think I trust him in that particular case - I mean, he told me about what his colleagues did and seemed a little uneasy about it himself. But I worry about what they may make him do in the future as he is easy to influence (he is not the social type so tends to follow). He doesn't seem to share my worry and thinks I am just being jealous.


How would your husband feel if the situation were reversed and it was you away on this so-called work trip, getting drunk and partying every night?
My guess is, he`d probably be posting on this forum having the same concerns and insecurities as you.
Your feelings are perfectly normal and all you can do is except your husband is away at present and if you cannot tolerate his long periods away work trips in the future is to discuss it with your husband and decide your way forward later on.


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## LauraLondon (2 mo ago)

Harold Demure said:


> IMO, his quitting his job is just the start of the process.
> Genuinely very sorry to be saying these things as I hate it when this forum attacks a marriage.


Don't be, it really helps to hear it and see various perspectives!  I am picking him up from the airport later, and need to have a serious discussion with him, not just a few words in-between parties and events when is drunk and tired.
We're both in our late thirties. We occasionally party with friends, but never ever to the point of being sick, never for that length of time and never until 5 am for days in a row. I have no idea why work colleagues would do that - is it the feeling of being "away from it all" in a dream location? The desire to push one's limits? Social pressure and wanting to see how far others can go (competition)? Simply the fact that's it's free? Or are some of those men unhappy in their lives and using this as a way to escape reality?

Re the event 10 years ago, I have to say he did show remorse for a long time and resigned straight away as he felt it was the minimum he could do (the woman was working in a foreign office, so he did not have to see her). When he was contacted by the boss to work for the company again, I said I was uneasy about it. But he genuinely thought things would be different and reassured me - "we were young then".

He works in a field where he could find a job very easily (he keeps being headhunted), so job security isn't really an issue. I agree re quitting being the start of the process - the colleagues/bosses and place are toxic, but I genuinely need to know how he values that job/company (compared to our relationship).


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

he seems to be the shy type that is more or less the last to leave the more hang around that the big mouth type guy that takes over the room from the moment he steps into the room ,
easy led why the boss was bringing up history seems to be because this is what he hoped the trip away would be like , 

it is the this that put this type trip in place and more for his own reasons than others just men in power when they get together act more like wolfs than boys ,and the women as much as we like to think the casting couch is gone it is still very much part of life for the ones that are willing to use it to get up the ladder or even just stay on the ladder , 

you see many different types of people on these trips the women that go to keep their foot in but they find a trusted other woman to chat with in the corner and go to bed on time , and the same can be said for some men , the biggest group are the boys often up to ten with about 3 women most talk shop but you will get the ones that hope the time and the drink get them to fool around


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LauraLondon said:


> Don't be, it really helps to hear it and see various perspectives!  I am picking him up from the airport later, and need to have a serious discussion with him, not just a few words in-between parties and events when is drunk and tired.
> We're both in our late thirties. We occasionally party with friends, but never ever to the point of being sick, never for that length of time and never until 5 am for days in a row. I have no idea why work colleagues would do that - is it the feeling of being "away from it all" in a dream location? The desire to push one's limits? Social pressure and wanting to see how far others can go (competition)? Simply the fact that's it's free? Or are some of those men unhappy in their lives and using this as a way to escape reality?
> 
> Re the event 10 years ago, I have to say he did show remorse for a long time and resigned straight away as he felt it was the minimum he could do (the woman was working in a foreign office, so he did not have to see her). When he was contacted by the boss to work for the company again, I said I was uneasy about it. But he genuinely thought things would be different and reassured me - "we were young then".
> ...


Sounds like a toxic office environment to me. One where your husband "has" to comply otherwise he will be singled out (again). So, he is going along. I kind of understand that, but I would leave the company if that's the case, since he can find another job easily.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Good luck today Laura, I do not expect this to be an easy process. We are all here for you.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

LauraLondon said:


> [...]There is history too: he worked briefly for that same company 10 years ago and *had a drunken fling with a colleague one evening*. We put that episode behind us, but his boss a few days ago started jokingly telling the other colleagues about the incident. I think this is really nasty of the boss to bring a 10 year old story back.
> 
> Yesterday he rang me when coming back from the party at 5am to tell me that he had been drinking for about 12 hours straight, and that some of his married male colleagues started *"playing" in the pool with younger female colleagues*. I trust him, and I don't think he did anything. But it really makes me feel queasy. Is that what work is about?[...]


Yes, you should be very worried. When your significant other works in an adultery-prone field, you ought to be worried. That your husband works in such a field, has cheated on you and now has expressed to you the fact that his work place seems to have formalized adultery, to such a degree that it seems is almost expected, is extremely concerning. Especially with younger female colleagues around. You can almost smell the hypergamy in this case. 

If you want to be able to sleep at night and not have diarrhea for weeks, have a conversation with him about your worries.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Him going back to work for a company like that was madness. The least he can do if he is so sought after is get a job where there are actually decent people and good work ethics.
I wouldn't trust any of them. I would even consider making an appointment for him to have a lie detector test.


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## Tiddytok5 (8 mo ago)

You never should have stayed when he first (so you assume) cheated on you with a co worker.


You don't trust him, and you never will again.


You wouldn't be posting about this situation, if you trusted him.



Get into therapy, find some self esteem, and respect for yourself....



And just leave him.. already.



Things aren't going to change.

Stop stressing yourself over a man that you can't control.

He's going to do whatever he wants. He knows that you're unlikely to leave.


You haven't left all of this time.


Perhaps he was like this all along and you ignored the red flags just to have a title "wife" 



Not all men cheat.

He may have been though.


Perhaps he just "checked out" of the marriage.. possibly regretting it.


It is possible that he is and have never stopped.

You're never going to trust him


Leave


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I wouldn't trust any of them. I would even consider making an appointment for him to have a lie detector test.


if she needs or thinks she needs a lie detector test it would be better to file , a relationship can never come back from a request for a lie detector test , because it is saying I don't trust you ,


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I consider myself an easygoing wife. I’m all for my husband going out with his friends, it’s good for him and I get the tv to myself to binge chick flicks.

I would not be ok with this at ALL. This is ridiculous.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I want you to know that I do not attack any marriage. I've been married over 35+ years. Yet even mine does suffer. You've both grown and matured together since an issue years ago. Your not those young kids anymore. Both of you need to understand you're in a different place marriage wise and in life. Especially him. As in America, the old saying what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, is not right for a mature couple and certainly not good for any marriage. Your husband should seek validation from his marriage first and through work ethics. It seems he is a bit lost on this. Therapy could be a huge benifit with the right counceling.
Talk with him, ensure your confidence in his hierarchy of life, seek counceling if needed and best wishes for the both of you.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TinyTbone said:


> As in America, the old saying what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas,


Until the lake goes down and the bodies start showing up.
There's a lesson there. Not much "stays" anywhere, as proven by the boss and his back-slappin' of OP's hubby for having an affair 10 years previous.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> Google does it, for one. I don't think spouses are ever invited.


That doesn't surprise me honestly, I bet Meta is the same. I work in banking and my employer is all about family, we'd never have booze-it-up reward trips without spouses.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Exit37 said:


> That doesn't surprise me honestly, I bet Meta is the same. I work in banking and my employer is all about family, we'd never have booze-it-up reward trips without spouses.


Its nice to know that some banks are good ones.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Its nice to know that some banks are good ones.


I work in a corporate environment (financial services) and this sort of behavior is frowned upon immediately. So much so that, in the front office, young women (trainees) are always paired up with young men and vice versa.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LauraLondon said:


> I have no idea why work colleagues would do that…


It’s a continuation of college basically. Throw that in with guys who have kids at home and can’t go out partying and it’s the ideal situation. I’m too old for it now thankfully.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> I work in a corporate environment (financial services) and this sort of behavior is frowned upon immediately. So much so that, in the front office, young women (trainees) are always paired up with young men and vice versa.


So that's a male trainee with male work partner and female trainee with female work partner?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TinyTbone said:


> So that's a male trainee with male work partner and female trainee with female work partner?


Still the possibility of being gay...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

frenchpaddy said:


> if she needs or thinks she needs a lie detector test it would be better to file , a relationship can never come back from a request for a lie detector test , because it is saying I don't trust you ,


He's already cheated on a day trip for this company. He doesn't get to be pissy about being asked to take a lie detector test considering his history. He should be kissing OP's ass and begging her not to file and take half the marital assets at this point.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Hi Laura, hope you are okay and all is well with you both.

Hope you didn’t get the anger and outrage from him about you not trusting him, or how you are making an absolute mountain out of a mole hill, or he works hard so why shouldn’t he have fun, or he didn’t join in with any of it but felt he had to participate because it was expected of him and he did not enjoy but was just thinking of you all the time, or he does not need to change jobs because it is not the same as it used to be, or you are just being controlling


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Hello, hope all has been peaceful for you since return. Hoping good things are happening in a very uncertain time. Peace be with you


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Laura, are you okay? Just a thumbs up would do.


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