# Anyone win their Wife back after she left for OM?



## staystrong

I'm still in love even though she is living with OM. She's the love of my life, we have two kids together and I want her back. It's been 4 months since D-Day and I've realized the things I could have done differently to maintain a good relationship. I'm ready to take breadcrumbs if that's what it will require to gain a footing. 

So what strategies worked for you?

What are some Do's and Don'ts?


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## oncehisangel

180 me thinks


best of luck by the way S.S


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## unbelievable

Don't stick your hand in the same fire twice.


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## sandc

Look for a thread by HerHusband. He fought like hell to get his wife back. He did it. Then he ultimately left her.


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## staystrong

HerHusband's case looks different than mine, but thanks for the lead.


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## Garry2012

If she left with OM....maybe a dumb question, why do you want her back? are you that desparate?

(I ask this as someone going through a D, and wondering why in the world i would ever take a WS spouse back when so many good people are out there)


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## Too Little Too Late?

staystrong said:


> I'm still in love even though she is living with OM. She's the love of my life, we have two kids together and I want her back. It's been 4 months since D-Day and I've realized the things I could have done differently to maintain a good relationship. I'm ready to take breadcrumbs if that's what it will require to gain a footing.
> 
> So what strategies worked for you?
> 
> What are some Do's and Don'ts?


Ignore her. Don't act needy in anyway. Make it look like you could care less, even happy that she has moved on. "hey we only get one shot at life and if this is what makes you happy..go for it" fake it til you make it. do not answer her calls..let them go to VM then text her back. I have 3 kids and this has worked well. Do not be available to her for anything. you cannot let her have her cake and eat it too. communicate only about the kids. this is the hardest part...no begging..pleading...explaining your love..nothing. she knows how you feel and she knows what she is doing is wrong. you have to let her miss you. no back sliding. the earlier you do this the better for your own sanity. let her go, the faster you do the faster you will heal. if she thinks you will just sit and wait for her to do whatever she want and can come back any time you are screwed. see quote above and believe it. she is in a fog that she may never come out of. the above is what you can do to prepare for that and put yourself in the best place to decide..if she ever does come out whether you want to R or not. 

Next look up CODA meetings in your area and get to as many as you can. Are you in IC?. You like me are codependent. If we weren't we would even consider not doing any of the above ( it wouldn't feel mean or uncomfortable) and probably would have said good riddance and soon as we learned about the PA. Use their time to take care of yourself. gym, books, out with friends, time with kids, hobbies etc. there is a life without you stbxw..hard to fathom but you need to be ready.


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## Garry2012

Yeah, maybe I am less codependent, but the more indifferent i see her act, the more i tell myself...let her go, and good riddance. 

I know what i have to offer, and she did too at one point--she was envied by all her friends. So if I am not good enough now, someone WILL appreciate me. BYE.


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## Too Little Too Late?

Garry2012 said:


> Yeah, maybe I am less codependent, but the more indifferent i see her act, the more i tell myself...let her go, and good riddance.
> 
> I know what i have to offer, and she did too at one point--she was envied by all her friends. So if I am not good enough now, someone WILL appreciate me. BYE.


Good for you. Wish I was there..trying hard. No reason for any of us to be putting up with this crap. Hard with kids tho. I was hoping to break the cycle.


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## Garry2012

Oh I know, I have kids--3, all 10 and under. Im not saying its easy...but how can i possibly put myself back in that situation? Won't it always be in the back of your mind: "did she come back to me just until she finds something better?" or "When will she start this stuff again?"

I would think she would be thinking, heck, I can do almost ANYTHING to this guy, and he will take me back.


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## Too Little Too Late?

You can't and yes that is the story she will be telling herself. Plan B will always be there, so Ill just go have fun. What was her childhood like?


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## Garry2012

Her childhood was fine. Heck, mine was filled with alcohoism, violence, and a divorce...and I am the one who is ok. She just REALLY is not aging well...hit 40 and started to freak out. Got plastic surgery, working out etc. Then flirting on FB and texting guys etc. I was the "controlling" and "jealous" husband who needed to relax and leave her alone..she "wasnt going to cheat". We had that discussion in March....by July she needed space. So must have already been cheating.


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## kindi

Garry2012 said:


> If she left with OM....maybe a dumb question, why do you want her back? are you that desparate?


I think your question has already been answered by the very nature of his post.


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## Almostrecovered

sandc said:


> Look for a thread by HerHusband. He fought like hell to get his wife back. He did it. Then he ultimately left her.


well we don't know whether he left for sure or not, he just stopped posting


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## Too Little Too Late?

Garry2012 said:


> Her childhood was fine. Heck, mine was filled with alcohoism, violence, and a divorce...and I am the one who is ok. She just REALLY is not aging well...hit 40 and started to freak out. Got plastic surgery, working out etc. Then flirting on FB and texting guys etc. I was the "controlling" and "jealous" husband who needed to relax and leave her alone..she "wasnt going to cheat". We had that discussion in March....by July she needed space. So must have already been cheating.


sucks, but she will have her day when she realizes that the grass isn't any greener.


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## staystrong

I love my wife despite the fact that she cheated and left. 

Maybe that makes me codependent, I don't know and I don't seem to care. I think that's just another term which gets thrown around and abused. I'm not desperate, I'm just in love with this one person. 

At this point, I don't care that she's in love with another man. I want her to be in love with me because I feel she is my soulmate. We have two kids together and I can't imagine life without her. After all the anger, rage and depression I've faced, I still come out thinking we belong together. I've probably taken too "screw her, be distant" advice on TAM and that's backfired. I want her to see that I'm a man she wants to be with, more than she wants to be with the other guy. 

Maybe I'm a codependent or just a romantic. I don't care about GIGS or her suffering later or anything like that. I want to know how to get her back! She's not an f'ed up person but yes she has some flaws. So what? I do too. But she has a good heart and a good family and we belong together. I don't care if people would never take back a cheating spouse, I would. There are no rigid truths in this world.


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## staystrong

Everyone says "don't blame yourself". The problem is that with time and hindsight, and by really listening to what made her unhappy, I do see the things I did or didn't do that could drive her away. I think I wasn't tuned in to her needs as much as I could have been, and now I am suffering the worst fate possible. I love her and I've got to get her back.


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## kindi

staystrong said:


> I love her and I've got to get her back.


What if she doesn't come back?

Do you think you're unable to handle life without her?

If so you're only fooling yourself. 

You'll be fine without her once you accept that you need to make a few adjustments.


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## Too Little Too Late?

staystrong said:


> Everyone says "don't blame yourself". The problem is that with time and hindsight, and by really listening to what made her unhappy, I do see the things I did or didn't do that could drive her away. I think I wasn't tuned in to her needs as much as I could have been, and now I am suffering the worst fate possible. I love her and I've got to get her back.


If she knows how you feel and that you want her back. IMO you have done everything you can do. begging pleading or explaining anymore makes you look weak and unattractive usually compounding the reasons she left in the 1st place. It also sets you up as plan b. again...she gets do do whatever and whoever she wants knowing that you'll be there if it doesn't work out. IMO she has to believe you are done and don't want her back..jedi mind trick.


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## lucy mulholland

staystrong, i'm with you. if your gut feeling goes against doing the 180, you can't go wrong. either your ex will come back or she won't, but you'll feel like you did your best, tried what felt right to you, and didn't try some "technique" that backfired when it wasn't even what you wanted to do in the first place.


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## Entropy3000

Find another / better woman. She make you forget this lesser one.


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## staystrong

kindi said:


> What if she doesn't come back?
> 
> Do you think you're unable to handle life without her?
> 
> If so you're only fooling yourself.
> 
> You'll be fine without her once you accept that you need to make a few adjustments.


I will have to handle life without her if she does not want to be with me, but it won't be the best life I could have and it won't be the life I want.


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## staystrong

Too Little Too Late? said:


> If she knows how you feel and that you want her back. IMO you have done everything you can do. begging pleading or explaining anymore makes you look weak and unattractive usually compounding the reasons she left in the 1st place. It also sets you up as plan b. again...she gets do do whatever and whoever she wants knowing that you'll be there if it doesn't work out. IMO she has to believe you are done and don't want her back..jedi mind trick.


I don't know if I could have done everything I could do. I think I applied the 180 in instances where I should not have. It's more important to understand your partner and their idiosyncrasies than it is to employ a standardized technique. I think I needed to be less guarded when the opportunity called for it. I didn't need her to come "begging back" to me - I just needed an opportunity to have her come back on her terms THEN work on rebuilding. She had a big moment of doubt one night and I did not capitalize on it.. I still "played it cool" because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. But all this counter-intuitive stuff is making me crazy!


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## In_The_Wind

Hi SS well your right no one on TAM knows your wife like you do , that being said she fell in love 
With ya once so you know what it take to get her to fall in love with you again why not employ those 
Methods that you have done in the past. I agree with the majority of posters whom have said that currently you 
Plan B and since most cheaters follow A certain predictable script if you will then it won't be long before 
Her and prince charming start cheating on each other . In the mean time you should live your life the 180 is designed for you not her or your marriage it allows oneself to get themselves back this was probably the person she fell in love with in the beginning 
Of yalls relationship 

Good luck SS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

Good luck to you whatever way it goes. I'm rooting for your marriage. Don't be fooled. It is harder than anything to repair and manage. Keep your wits about you. Hope you do it for all of us that wanted to and couldn't for whatever reason. I just don't want you to get hurt or harmed in the process.


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## staystrong

Thanks all.

I wonder at what point do I need to lay it on the line and tell her more about how I feel? Without sounding desperate?

Letting her know she's the one for me despite her actions, and that I see the problems which existed in our relationship and I want to rebuild.

But she's enthralled with the OM right now so is it just bad timing?

I don't mind being Plan B if it means a chance to restart.


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## GutPunch

Plan B not a good thing. If you truly love your wife, let her be with the man she as chosen. 180 is not some tactic to win her back.You need to get you sh!$ together and move on with your life. You think I'm happy that my beautiful wife walked out on me and our two small kids. Hell no! Such is life and I deal with the pain every day but she doesn't no that. Again, let her go if she comes back fine if she doesn't fine. It is not up to you!


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## Too Little Too Late?

I did what you are proposing for 5 months. Got mixed messages, false hope, constant longing. It will eventually eat away at your soul. It will take all of your self worth and you will have nothing left. For yourself and you kids you have to grab the dignity you have left and walk away. if you love her,let her go, if she comes back she is yours, if she doesn't she was never yours to begin with. sucks to hear, believe me i know. I got stuck in the dream of the way things could be instead of looking at the reality of what is.

good luck with whatever you decide, this is painful.


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## Garry2012

Yeah, i got the misxed messages too...its all part of the plan b strategy to keep you in limbo in case they decide that the other man isnt the one they want...they will come back...then maybe keep shopping. Who needs that?!?!?

You just think you need her to make you happy. If she comes back and just tortures you for the next 10 years, is that happy?? Is that the best your life could be? Let her go, if she truly loves you, maybe you reconcile down the road.

BTW I dont know if there is a way to tell her how you feel without sounding desparate. I can tell you I did all that...SHE DIDNT CARE. We can all relate to the person who had a crush on you and you had no interest...did it bother you that they cried themselves to sleep? I didnt lose any sleep over it--and neither is my STBXW.


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## Garry2012

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I did what you are proposing for 5 months. Got mixed messages, false hope, constant longing. It will eventually eat away at your soul. It will take all of your self worth and you will have nothing left. For yourself and you kids you have to grab the dignity you have left and walk away. if you love her,let her go, if she comes back she is yours, if she doesn't she was never yours to begin with. sucks to hear, believe me i know. I got stuck in the dream of the way things could be instead of looking at the reality of what is.
> 
> good luck with whatever you decide, this is painful.


I played along for several months too...got NOWHERE. We talked about it, she was fine with divorce. So, there we are.


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## staystrong

I want to take advantage of the opps given to me to have her back. Like I said, I feel I messed up the one 3 weeks ago. I think she I wanted her back more for the sake of the kids than for her. But I want HER more than anything else in life. 

I think I am coming out of my Betrayed Spouse Hate Fog and seeing more of the light of my role in everything. It's taken me a few months, a severe amount of pain and some physical distance.


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## staystrong

Garry2012 said:


> You just think you need her to make you happy. If she comes back and just tortures you for the next 10 years, is that happy?? Is that the best your life could be? Let her go, if she truly loves you, maybe you reconcile down the road.
> 
> BTW I dont know if there is a way to tell her how you feel without sounding desparate. I can tell you I did all that...SHE DIDNT CARE. We can all relate to the person who had a crush on you and you had no interest...did it bother you that they cried themselves to sleep? I didnt lose any sleep over it--and neither is my STBXW.


I at least want the CHANCE to make her/me happy again.

I think they care - they just might not show that to you. I think part of the reason they don't come back is due to pride.

Does anyone have a success story to share? Maybe you aren't on TAM any longer!


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## GutPunch

When they go for the POSOM, they have already detached. She does not care! They do this to justify their poor decision making. You have to let go as she already has. I understand your pain but their isn't a single thing you can do about it. Staystrong your first job is to accept the change. Not all change is bad. There are plenty of success stories on the board but you are a long way from being one. What's the definition of success story? You get a wife back who doesn't fully love you. Until you are happy with you, you got no shot at getting her back that is unless POSOM dumps her.


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## bobby5

How do I do a 180 when she knows i am madly ijn love with her and there is nothing more important in my life than my kids. Also I am the one who strayed and she left me. Now I know what a fool I was and the wonder of what I had. Se (it appears from waht she sais anyway) has gotton over the breakup (which broke both our hearts) and i definitely have not. Can the person who was in the wrong and who comes back pleading only to be told no, use the 180 effectively? Any advice appreciated.
Learned my lesson the hard way and way too late.


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## staystrong

@bobby5

Please start your own thread.

@GutPunch

Accept the change. I do as a matter of fact, not necessarily as a matter of heart. It's hard to change the way I feel.


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## Garry2012

You are no different than any of us Staystrong. I really love my wife too. 

yeah, there is pride involved for sure. My STBXW has now told all her friends and her familly that she wants out. Think she will just magically switch course and tell them all she loves me again? That would take a long time and may never happen.

I guess everyone has to handle it they way they can live with. I would hold out like you for a very long time if she showed any willingness to end the affair and work on US. At siome point, you have to come to the realization that it just may be over. I also think that hanging on may just perpetuate the situation. If she knows your not going anywhere, she can keep playing. If you started playing her game, she may just start to feel like you. 

I think if my wife saw me dating, her old jealousy would come back and she may just start to fight to keep me. I dont know, its a big risk that i havent taken yet.


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## staystrong

Garry2012 said:


> You are no different than any of us Staystrong. I really love my wife too.
> 
> yeah, there is pride involved for sure. My STBXW has now told all her friends and her familly that she wants out. Think she will just magically switch course and tell them all she loves me again? That would take a long time and may never happen.
> 
> I guess everyone has to handle it they way they can live with. I would hold out like you for a very long time if she showed any willingness to end the affair and work on US. At siome point, you have to come to the realization that it just may be over. I also think that hanging on may just perpetuate the situation. If she knows your not going anywhere, she can keep playing. If you started playing her game, she may just start to feel like you.
> 
> I think if my wife saw me dating, her old jealousy would come back and she may just start to fight to keep me. I dont know, its a big risk that i havent taken yet.


At what point is it no technically longer an affair? It's been all out in the open for a few months. 

I don't know how it could ever reverse course - so much has changed. Everyone knows now. The fact that she had POSOM move in so fast shows her selfishness and lack of regard for me and our kids. 

Jealousy.. hmm, haven't tried it. Somehow I feel she would be relieved.


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## GutPunch

It is not an affair anymore. That is regrettably her new boyfriend. I know you love your wife as I love mine. However, my wife the one I married 12 years ago is gone. There is nothing I can do to get her back. She has to want to come back. Will she? Who knows. I just got to pick up the pieces, not live in the past, and realize that maybe something better is in store for me in the future. I hope. The pain is natural and doesn't go away quickly.


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## Garry2012

Call it what you want, BF, Affair. She knows i know all about my STBXWs trist too. 

Exactly, thats how i feel. I dont even look at my stbxw the same anymore. She could not CARE LESS about he damage she is and will cause to me and the kids. 

So even with all that, you still want to win her back if you can? 
I dont even know who i would be winning back...not the woman i knew for 15 years, it would more likely be the woman i have struggled with for the last two. I can do so much better than that and have a wife/gf that i dont have to worry about.

Yeah, I think at my stage, and maybe yours too, it seems to help them justify their actions...as if to say "he wanted to move on too" amd "he agrees the relationship was no good". 

Somehow it would seem that you have to make it clear that its HER decision to move on that prompted you to get your life back on track.


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## GutPunch

Garry2012 said:


> Call it what you want, BF, Affair. She knows i know all about my STBXWs trist too.
> 
> Exactly, thats how i feel. I dont even look at my stbxw the same anymore. She could not CARE LESS about he damage she is and will cause to me and the kids.
> 
> So even with all that, you still want to win her back if you can?
> I dont even know who i would be winning back...not the woman i knew for 15 years, it would more likely be the woman i have struggled with for the last two. I can do so much better than that and have a wife/gf that i dont have to worry about.
> 
> Yeah, I think at my stage, and maybe yours too, it seems to help them justify their actions...as if to say "he wanted to move on too" amd "he agrees the relationship was no good".
> 
> :iagree:


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## staystrong

No, I was very clear with everyone - including her family - that I wanted to reconcile and the my wife rejected the idea (she briefly tried but she could not let go of OM).

I still feel extremely connected to her. She was the only woman I ever loved, and my only LTR. The way I look at her is that I missed a golden opportunity. I didn't appreciate what I had and I took her love for granted. Now, she could be selfish, no doubt, but she has so many amazing qualities which I like I don't think I'll be able to find anyone like her again. I may fall in love again but I don't think the one will have the potential this one did. Potential for growth, exploration, collaborations, etc. 

Maybe I will hire one of those internet spellcasters LOL


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## GutPunch

Man...you sound like you are in the fog. She does not love you any more. Sorry. You have to accept this. Maybe she will again some day who knows. This is not your fault. Cut her loose instill 180 and save your self respect. Trust me there are plenty of women out there with more to offer. Have fait you will find one, but you better become more confident in you if you expect to snag one.


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## staystrong

I'm not very good at accepting this. Clearly no good at all. 

No, I don't think I am going to find anyone like my wife. Attractive, talented, sensual, sociable, witty, etc., etc. The mother of my children. 

Her betrayal is awful. AWFUL. No excuse. But is it because of me in part? I don't know. Maybe I f*cked up. Maybe I didn't do enough to keep her happy. I think I needed to do more - that's part of marriage to praise your partner and make them feel special. I don't buy I was "controlling" her and stuff like that but that is her perspective.

I think I lost the best woman who walked into my life and woman I was and would have been the most happy with for the rest of my life. That's why I hold on.


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## GutPunch

Let me tell you something. My wife is 5'11" model gorgeous. She has a six figure plus income. She has two wonderful kids. She got hooked on pain pills and eventually walked out. Am I partially to blame for a less than perfect marriage? Certainly. However, she took the drugs...she had the affair. That is 100% her fault. Do not blame your self. I am certain you can get thru this but you need to 180 to make it as least painful as possible. Do not support her affair/boyfriend life style. Cut her off. She will respect you for it in the long run. Doesn't mean she'll come back but she will respect you being a man about it.


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## staystrong

Got a little problem there. She was the main income earner as I was getting my internet business started up. There's nothing to cut off. So I'm already starting at a low respect level (not making the money), however I got a new job several months ago. It seems like she has heaps of resentments for things that were not well communicated.

I don't give her half the rent money - not if he is staying there with OM. (Our kids are there too). He should pony up; she says she won't ask him b/c he is still paying half the mortgage for the house he bought with his STBX.

WTF is wrong with people? They seem to have no understanding of how they are hurting others. My wife basically stranded me in her country with none of my family and or friends here. Now she is shacking up with her musician boyfriend to pursue a career as a singer. I supported her passion for music and I was kicked to the curb. We played music together too and now I feel robbed we'll never finish what we started. I should hate her but I still want her back. Nobody seems to have won their wife back here it seems.. I can see why people kill themselves over love. I always thought that seemed so ridiculous/pathetic but now I understand the impulse. It's crazy how much this hurts. 

@GutPunch
Is your wife living with OM? If not, maybe you have a better shot than most. Is she seeking treatment?


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## GutPunch

Getting betrayed to me is the most painful feeling in the world. I understand as well as many on this forum what you are going through. May I suggest counseling and a trip to the doctor for some anti-anxiety meds. I lost 20 pounds in three weeks after DDay. Counseling has helped me alot to cope with what is my new reality. Meds help me sleep at night. 

My wife dumped OM a few weeks after Dday and told me it was over with him. My exact words to her were, "What has that got to do with me? That doesn't change anything." Understand, I love my wife (or what used to be my wife) but if we were ever to reconcile she would have to do 90% of the heavy lifting. I would have to see true remorse for the hurt she inflicted upon me and my two babies. I also worry that if I did reconcile with her she could just do it again and this time I may not get primary custody of the kids as I have now. I love my wife but I live for my two babies. Stay I hear it takes up to 2 years to heal from something like this.


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## staystrong

I tried an antidepressant but was not so hip on the side effects. Interestingly, I felt better after just a few days of taking it (then stopping it). 

My IC was not good and I'm on travel right now so I don't have another one. I did not get much out of it. I analyzed the affair more than myself.

All I do is replay the tapes in my head, wishing I could have spent more time with her doing this thing or that. Especially sex. It kills me thinking that she has a better sex life with him. We were down to once or twice a week and not exploring as much as we had used to. I can't stand the idea of NEVER making love to her again.

You sound like a guy who will stand his ground. That's good. But you want your wife back, too. What if she needs some sort of encouragement to come back? It sounds like it could be a lot pressure for her to make everything up to you, and maybe she's not up to it. Have you tried MC yet with her?


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## GutPunch

Sex is better for them b/c they don't have any problems. You need to file for divorce. Let him have her. She has chosen. Don't be her doormat or plan B. You need someone that loves and respects you. They are out there. 

I am not that strong. It is all a big front to show her I am no DOORMAT! As far as me reaching out to her, I wasn't the cheater. You need to detach emotionally and look down on the situation with open eyes. Why should I extend the olive brach? Lot of pressure on her LOL She almost dam% near killed me.

Please Stay take your focus off of her and use all that energy to improve you. 180 180 180 180 for you not for her


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## staystrong

I don't know your story but you sound like you are holding to a plan. It sounds like pain killers played a big role in her infidelity - how much leeway do you give her then? Has she been remorseful or no? 

I've been royally screwed yet I've royally screwed myself. I was re-reading Married Man Sex Life last night and that just reminds me of my mistakes. So it is about ME as well and that period in my life. I have a smoking hot wife who is earning the money? I should be doing everything I can to make sure she stays happy and fulfilled with me. F*CK ME. I took the marriage for GRANTED. That's a big no no and look at me now. I thought we were "partners" and she would support me just as I had supported her before. But that's not really how it works, is it? She told me recently "For me a man has to make money." Well, not all businesses work out. And why weren't you more direct with me earlier?

This is why I have a hard time letting go - it's because I feel the need to repair what I lent a hand in breaking.

I'm still surprised she didn't think of the kids more.


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## GutPunch

Step 1 Quit blaming yourself right now!
Step 2 Focus on you not her
Step 3 Go Dark I mean Dark

If you don't listen the pain is going to eat you alive. If you go 180, at least you have your self respect. You got to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it.


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## staystrong

Can't go Dark. We have kids together. 

Dude, I'm just trying to be honest with myself. I think there's something to be gained from that. That is focusing on me - where I went wrong with sexual satisfaction or whatever. 

The problem is the idea of my wife having sex with another man is still driving me crazy. It's a real f'ing blow to a person's manhood. I should hate her for that alone. I mean HATE her for the mental terrorism and the gut-wrenching disrespect she showed me and the kids.


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## GutPunch

staystrong said:


> Can't go Dark. We have kids together.
> 
> I've got a six and three year old. Just communicate about kids and kids only.
> 
> 
> de, I'm just trying to be honest with myself. I think there's something to be gained from that. That is focusing on me - where I went wrong with sexual satisfaction or whatever.
> 
> 
> Again, this is not your fault. I am sure you were not a perfect husband. Nobody is. However, you did not deserve what she did.
> 
> 
> The problem is the idea of my wife having sex with another man is still driving me crazy. It's a real f'ing blow to a person's manhood. I should hate her for that alone. I mean HATE her for the mental terrorism and the gut-wrenching disrespect she showed me and the kids.



I am right there with you buddy. That is why you must focus on you not her. Start going to the gym, work on your career, do something to improve your life. File for divorce ... Let her know you mean business. I know you want her back but that will pass as time moves on.


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## This is me

Sorry if I missed this, but was this a sudden unexpected Walk Away Wife scenerio. Could this be a Mid Life Crisis? You have kids and she bails on her marriage. Unless things were really beyond tolerable, there is no excused but that of the grass is greener fog of the MLC.

If so, ready Divorce Busters or Divorce Remedy. Became my bible when the alien of MLC took over my wife.

I wish you well!


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## staystrong

This is me said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but was this a sudden unexpected Walk Away Wife scenerio. Could this be a Mid Life Crisis? You have kids and she bails on her marriage. Unless things were really beyond tolerable, there is no excused but that of the grass is greener fog of the MLC.
> 
> If so, ready Divorce Busters or Divorce Remedy. Became my bible when the alien of MLC took over my wife.
> 
> I wish you well!


Thanks.

No, she's in mid-30's.

I think she wanted more independence and a chance to pursue her passion, music. (OM is a musician).

Apparently, she became "bored, trapped" and I was "controlling". I think we weren't communicating very well - like having real sit downs. I feel resentments and annoyances coming from her but I don't feel they are well deserved. I just wanted some balance and family time. She tells me "quality not quantity" is important. Allright...

Maybe the sex wasn't good enough or frequent enough. Who knows?! She doesn't seem to know and we only had a couple of MC sessions. I've asked her many questions and often she doesn't seem to be able to give me the "reasons" b/c she is not sure herself.


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## Garry2012

This is me said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but was this a sudden unexpected Walk Away Wife scenerio. Could this be a Mid Life Crisis? You have kids and she bails on her marriage. Unless things were really beyond tolerable, there is no excused but that of the grass is greener fog of the MLC.
> 
> If so, ready Divorce Busters or Divorce Remedy. Became my bible when the alien of MLC took over my wife.
> 
> I wish you well!


This is SO my wife....Walk away wife...does this actually work?


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## Garry2012

staystrong said:


> Can't go Dark. We have kids together.
> 
> Dude, I'm just trying to be honest with myself. I think there's something to be gained from that. That is focusing on me - where I went wrong with sexual satisfaction or whatever.
> 
> The problem is the idea of my wife having sex with another man is still driving me crazy. It's a real f'ing blow to a person's manhood. I should hate her for that alone. I mean HATE her for the mental terrorism and the gut-wrenching disrespect she showed me and the kids.


wow....you sound so much like me. That is exactly how i feel.


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## Chuck71

No matter how bad the marriage was, the respectable thing to do was not to stain the marital bed. At least wait until D is final. There is NO excuse for cheating.


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## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> No matter how bad the marriage was, the respectable thing to do was not to stain the marital bed. At least wait until D is final. There is NO excuse for cheating.


There's no consolation in this, though. She still cheated and now I feel like less of a man. I want the chance to take her, make love to her, satisfy her like no other. To know that someone else is doing that? That she likes it more? It's a living nightmare.


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## Chuck71

You are creating most of your nightmares. If we allowed children to play on a busy street, they're going to. Soon children will be hit by a car. Drop the D.....you can stop the D at any time, even 15 minutes before it is signed. You can also remarry the same person three hours later. My parents remarried, in '66 and '68. It seems at least you would be able to have some type of closure. In my case we both failed horribly at communicating. We both still love each other but we checked out on one another. Time apart is probably the best for us. I want the D to go through even if she walked in and said let's work on this. We could remarry later because the current one died awhile back. Up until "the talk" I would have definately went for R but too much has happened since then.


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## GutPunch

I am like you Chuck I love my wife more than anything but if she came back and tried to R I don't know if I could do it. I have the kids do I risk losing that? I think not. So sadly I am in a pickle. However, I am just making up problems that do not exist. She doesn't want me or the kids. Same goes for you staystrong. Drop the D on her. She doesn't love you anymore. If by the rare chance that wakes her up, then stop the process. Don't stay married to a woman who is living with another man. We all know the pain your in. You have to do this for you. She will respect you for it.


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## Garry2012

Yeah, I am there too. My STBXW is having an EA and maybe a PA. but wont admit, or stop. Heck he may be coming over while i am at work...i dont know. Took the kids to the zoo today, she might have gone to visit...

Best thing i can do for me is to move on emotionally. I have to think of her as if she is just a female i know...no more.

Its not easy.


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## maincourse99

You do not want her back until she is done with the OM, in fact is repulsed by him. If she were to come back to you before that, she will just end up going back to him. 

Play it cool, act like you don't care. Chances a very good the affair will blow up since now they are living together and real life will snap her into reality and she very well come back to you with true remorse.

That's what you want to see, but honestly will you ever be able to trust her again?


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## Chuck71

Garry you have conflict but you are in the right direction. It's HARD to hit uncharted territories and so easy to lapse back into familiarity. Ask yourself if your son was 30 and in this situation. Clear, concise, truthful.


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## staystrong

The D is very expensive, even to just initiate. Neither of us are in the best financial spot right now. 

How do you guys stop the obsessive thoughts? My wife told me a couple of things about their sex life that killed me. Apparently it's hot and heavy and that messes with my mind. Yes, she and I had gotten a little routine but I would've revved it up had I known she was itching for more. I can't stand this.. Like I've failed some ultimate test of being a man. Women should not have this power over us but they do. Once a woman leaves you for someone else, your self-esteem is forever changed. 

Even if I don't feel like a real man right now, I don't think of her as a real woman, either. Sexually, yes, she is. But as a wife and mother? Hell no. Breaking up a home and letting OM move in is beyond the pale. She thinks she's running the show and that her decisions are always the best. She's so full of herself.


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## Chuck71

for her to tell you makes her a b!tch. plain n pure. take the IDGAF attitude. you have to.


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## staystrong

maincourse99 said:


> You do not want her back until she is done with the OM, in fact is repulsed by him. If she were to come back to you before that, she will just end up going back to him.
> 
> Play it cool, act like you don't care. Chances a very good the affair will blow up since now they are living together and real life will snap her into reality and she very well come back to you with true remorse.
> 
> That's what you want to see, but honestly will you ever be able to trust her again?


Trust her? At the beginning, no way. Only with time, effort and real introspection on her part. 

I sometimes wonder if I would take her back after she's disrespected me this way. And what does it say about me? That I have so little respect for myself that I'd take back a woman who has done all these things? I don't know. It's very complicated. If I was to concentrate just on the sexual part of it, I don't think I could take her back. I'd feel like her doormat unless the remorse was really really intense. 

Part of me just doesn't want to lose or think I was traded in. Which is how I feel now. 

She keeps saying "I'm never coming back". Chances are she won't.


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## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> for her to tell you makes her a b!tch. plain n pure. take the IDGAF attitude. you have to.


I may have started it with a "What do you see in him?" line of questioning, but yeah she has no tact. 

The lies, the deceit, the manipulations, the cruelty.. all from the mother of my two children. It's unbearable. Somehow we think we can fix them.


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## Chuck71

as for now. i don't give a duck..............one knows not what they lose until it is taken away


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## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> one knows not what they lose until it is taken away


Yeah, but that's how I feel about her now that she's gone. Not the other way around.

How do you not care? Surely you care or you wouldn't be on TAM. I only wish I could not care .. it would spare me of this effing pain.


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## maincourse99

I've been through this, I thought I was going to die. This is probably the worst pain you'll ever experience. But listen, you cannot control what another person does, it is not your fault, and this will not kill you.

If you cut off contact with her, but for the kids, in time the pain will lessen. As far as your manhood goes, don't beat yourself up over that. What I did was to go out and strike up conversations with women.

No need to have sex with them, just talk, flirt and have fun. You will find out that you are still attractive to women. Boost your confidence. If you're not already, start lifting weights and taking long power walks. Get in great shape and clear your head, talk it out with yourself when you're walking.

You have to stay strong, or at least appear strong to her, like you're going to be fine without her, she has to see only strength, no weakness. It's your best hope, not just to get her back, but to heal yourself.

You can't reason someone out of an affair JUST LET HER GO. As I said before, affairs usually unravel, but you have to be patient.

As far as my situation, when she first left for the POSOM, she said that there was no way ever she would come back home, but 2 weeks ago she told me that she still loves me, made a big mistake leaving, and didn't realize how good she had it. 

Thing is, until she leaves the POSOM and writes a NC letter, lives on her own for a while, goes to counseling and begs to come back, there will be no discussion of R. I'm at the point where I know I can make it without her.


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## staystrong

maincourse99 said:


> Thing is, until she leaves the POSOM and writes a NC letter, lives on her own for a while, goes to counseling and begs to come back, there will be no discussion of R. I'm at the point where I know I can make it without her.


Verrrrrry interesting. 

Were you as hopeless as I sound?

What's the timeline on this? 
When was D-Day and then her moving in with POSOM? 

Did you write a final letter or anything like that?


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## staystrong

I read a couple of your posts, maincourse99. Sounds like you have a full-on WAW who is not completely responsible, but may "wake up". 

In a lot of ways, my wife is very responsible, at least to things she sets her mind to. The flip-side to that is she's self-assured and irritated when things do not go her way. And she has to rely on others to achieve all the things she wants to do.


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## Chuck71

SS-So many things have happened, I just feel a D must take place. Even if she wanted to work through things with me (we were both at fault, poor communication) I would still want the D. Would I wish to work things out...if they can be...of course. We have 15 years together. So many things have to change on both our parts. The main things she wanted, was the very same things I wanted. We simply had built up walls in those areas. Now outside of those, we got along very well. The difference here was I wanted to stay and fight for our marriage. She ran. Said it was too late......it's never too late. Will she come around.....of course....they always do when you treated them with kindness. But my life will go on. If things can turn for the better before the D, we can start the road to recovery. We can re-marry the next day, if we chose to. But if she does not come around, my life WILL go on. And if too much time passes.......well.....I know I gave 110% to try and make it work. I can live with that. Had I been the one who ran from the problem and lost a spouse of 15 years.....that would bother me for a long long time. So it's all on her.


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## maincourse99

Yes, I was completely hopeless. Dday was 5/4 of this year and I thought seriously of ending my life. It took a month or so for the worst to pass, but it was still bad. I ended up going to a psychiatrist and got a prescription for clonozapam for anxiety and panic attacks and Trazodone to sleep. Thank goodness I did, I was a complete mess.

She moved into her own place soon after dday, then in with him in late August. I exposed the affair to his wife, btw. 

I never wrote any final letter, but during the summer when she was still on the fence, I sent plenty of texts and emails in a futile effort to get her back. 

I have spent a lot of time on here reading and getting advice. If you read my post about her moving in with AP and the advice I was given, you'll see it was blunt. I needed that. Many guys on here have been through what we have. They know what needs to be done. 

I can't stress enough, even though it goes against your natural instincts, detach and do the 180. You'll probably backslide, but you have to do it. 

You only have control over yourself, she checked out in her heart and mind well before Dday, nothing you can do but project strength and control. It makes you attractive to her. Not to say that she'll come back, based on your description of her she could be pretty determined. 

Regardless of what she does, you have to get through this and heal and the 180 is the way to do it. It saved me, and now I feel in control of my life and future. I definitely have ups and downs, but every passing week it gets easier. Hang in there, this is temporary.


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## Garry2012

staystrong said:


> Yeah, but that's how I feel about her now that she's gone. Not the other way around.
> 
> How do you not care? Surely you care or you wouldn't be on TAM. I only wish I could not care .. it would spare me of this effing pain.


She just might some day, she is in the fog remember? Mine is that way too, she cant think about me at all, just wants out.


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## Garry2012

maincourse99 said:


> Yes, I was completely hopeless. Dday was 5/4 of this year and I thought seriously of ending my life. It took a month or so for the worst to pass, but it was still bad. I ended up going to a psychiatrist and got a prescription for clonozapam for anxiety and panic attacks and Trazodone to sleep. Thank goodness I did, I was a complete mess.
> 
> She moved into her own place soon after dday, then in with him in late August. I exposed the affair to his wife, btw.
> 
> I never wrote any final letter, but during the summer when she was still on the fence, I sent plenty of texts and emails in a futile effort to get her back.
> 
> I have spent a lot of time on here reading and getting advice. If you read my post about her moving in with AP and the advice I was given, you'll see it was blunt. I needed that. Many guys on here have been through what we have. They know what needs to be done.
> 
> I can't stress enough, even though it goes against your natural instincts, detach and do the 180. You'll probably backslide, but you have to do it.
> 
> You only have control over yourself, she checked out in her heart and mind well before Dday, nothing you can do but project strength and control. It makes you attractive to her. Not to say that she'll come back, based on your description of her she could be pretty determined.
> 
> Regardless of what she does, you have to get through this and heal and the 180 is the way to do it. It saved me, and now I feel in control of my life and future. I definitely have ups and downs, but every passing week it gets easier. Hang in there, this is temporary.


I have tried hard to not look at phone records, I shut off the GPS and everything I dont want to know what she is doing anymore, it just makes me mad anyway. I just have issues controlling the anger i have for her, and that just pushes her away more.


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## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> SS-So many things have happened, I just feel a D must take place. Even if she wanted to work through things with me (we were both at fault, poor communication) I would still want the D. Would I wish to work things out...if they can be...of course. We have 15 years together. So many things have to change on both our parts. The main things she wanted, was the very same things I wanted. We simply had built up walls in those areas. Now outside of those, we got along very well. The difference here was I wanted to stay and fight for our marriage. She ran. Said it was too late......it's never too late. Will she come around.....of course....they always do when you treated them with kindness. But my life will go on. If things can turn for the better before the D, we can start the road to recovery. We can re-marry the next day, if we chose to. But if she does not come around, my life WILL go on. And if too much time passes.......well.....I know I gave 110% to try and make it work. I can live with that. Had I been the one who ran from the problem and lost a spouse of 15 years.....that would bother me for a long long time. So it's all on her.


You mention kindness. I wonder if she thinks I treated her with kindness. I think most of the time I did but do they remember the good as well as the bad?

Did you get angry with her during the marriage or after you learned of the affair?

After I learned of the affair, I was all over the place. Reserved and conciliatory one moment, sad-faced and weepy the next. I was also very angry at times (yelling, blaming, insulting, etc.) and although it's natural I think that turned her off and reinforced the idea she could not be with me. She said I had "anger issues". I'm not sure that's fair. She refers to an instance 2 years ago when I kicked a door in our house. And a couple of other moments when I yelled over something. Does that qualify as "anger issues"?

I do admit that I slapped her. Twice. Not during the marriage, mind you, but during the pain and agony of being left. I was in realllly bad place mentally and physically. I was isolated in her country (no support from friends and family), no sleep, not on meds. I don't know if they understand the pain we go through. 

In the meantime, the OM is perceived as a gentle loving man who will never give her the kind of grief I gave her. Well, betrayal leads to some raw emotions!


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## staystrong

maincourse99 said:


> Yes, I was completely hopeless. Dday was 5/4 of this year and I thought seriously of ending my life. It took a month or so for the worst to pass, but it was still bad. I ended up going to a psychiatrist and got a prescription for clonozapam for anxiety and panic attacks and Trazodone to sleep. Thank goodness I did, I was a complete mess.


For me, it took 4 months for the worst to pass. Two or three months of poor sleep, non-stop thoughts, etc. I should have been prescribed medicine but I was so laid out I could not get myself to the right doctor. I didn't know how bad I needed the help. (Still do.)


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## GutPunch

Get some professionl help (counseling, meds, meditation, etc.). If you are not sleeping, then you are not going to be healthy. Focus on getting yourself in tip top health. 

I do not think you have anger issues. The only reason i kept my cool during Dday was that I knew if I didn't do anything stupid the kids would be mine. So I never even raised my voice at her. Just told her to get her stuff and get out. Helped her pack and find a hotel room. I internalized everything. Of course, I threw up every time I ate for two weeks but she doesn't know that. 

And trust me the sex was fantastic with you when you all first met. Don't pay any attention to her digs. They are in the fog. Once the fog is lifted, there sex life will be routine like every other normal couple out there. Everything's great when you cannot see any flaws. 

180 man we cannot stress this enough. None of this your fault. She is a cheater and needs to be treated as such. Do not beg, plead, etc. it just embarrases you and pushes her away.


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## Garry2012

GutPunch said:


> Get some professionl help (counseling, meds, meditation, etc.). If you are not sleeping, then you are not going to be healthy. Focus on getting yourself in tip top health.
> 
> I do not think you have anger issues. The only reason i kept my cool during Dday was that I knew if I didn't do anything stupid the kids would be mine. So I never even raised my voice at her. Just told her to get her stuff and get out. Helped her pack and find a hotel room. I internalized everything. Of course, I threw up every time I ate for two weeks but she doesn't know that.
> 
> And trust me the sex was fantastic with you when you all first met. Don't pay any attention to her digs. They are in the fog. Once the fog is lifted, there sex life will be routine like every other normal couple out there. Everything's great when you cannot see any flaws.
> 
> 180 man we cannot stress this enough. None of this your fault. She is a cheater and needs to be treated as such. Do not beg, plead, etc. it just embarrases you and pushes her away.


My STBXW pushes me away more now because of all the anger i have sent her way. We mostly dont even talk now, she doesnt want to fight, so I get not closure either. Wont admit to anything, wont go to counciling, nothing. Seems like 13 years is going down the drain without even a try to save it...beyond frustration, and she is offended that i am so angry. I told her, imagine if you caught me with a girl in the kitchen....and then i denied it ever happened and refused to talk about it. Wouldnt that maybe frustrate you? she ignores my question. arrrgg


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## Chuck71

SS-There was no affair.


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## staystrong

@GutPunch
Wow. How you managed to not show anger at all amazes me. We'll see if it pays off for you. 
180 180 180 .. I resisted sending her an email today. That was good. 

@Garry2012
Yeah, I had a lot of anger at times. I felt so betrayed. She was dumping me for someone else and stranding me in her country. I see my kids half the time and their lives have been forever changed. All the broken dreams. And for what? So her needs could be met? 

@Chuck71
Okay, makes sense. Sounds like a WAW / GIGS scenario then. I'll check out your posts.


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## Chuck71

SS-Just lack of communication. We both withheld what other wanted. We are both bullheaded. I threw lifeline, sink or swin, her call.


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## Garry2012

My STBXW is just so f'd up, she wont even talk about it. She refuses to talk at home, because we "fight", then she wont text with me, so she avoids it. I ask about the OM, she ignores it. I ask her if she would stop seeing him, she acts like he doesnt exist or ignores. So frustrating.


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## aston

staystrong said:


> I'm still in love even though she is living with OM. She's the love of my life, we have two kids together and I want her back. It's been 4 months since D-Day and I've realized the things I could have done differently to maintain a good relationship. I'm ready to take breadcrumbs if that's what it will require to gain a footing.
> 
> So what strategies worked for you?
> 
> What are some Do's and Don'ts?


Remember that feeling the first night you sat there knowing she was with the OM? That should be a reminder why you should let her be. Unless you enjoy being cuckolded.


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## Garry2012

I keep all the information including texts and the written script of her call with OM to remind me of why I should feel the way i do towards her. Works so far.


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## GutPunch

Garry, Sounds like you need to do a 180 yourself.


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## Garry2012

GutPunch said:


> Garry, Sounds like you need to do a 180 yourself.


I have been for some time, trust me. Works for me as it is designed, no effect on her. I am not keeping it to get her back to me etc, lost cause.

I keep at that information just as a reminder of why she needs to go. Also, I want the information to share with others someday, including my kids...if when in their 20-30s, want to know why mom and dad divorced.


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## staystrong

Garry2012 said:


> My STBXW is just so f'd up, she wont even talk about it. She refuses to talk at home, because we "fight", then she wont text with me, so she avoids it. I ask about the OM, she ignores it. I ask her if she would stop seeing him, she acts like he doesnt exist or ignores. So frustrating.


Wow, total denial/refusal. 

That's difficult to deal with. Good luck.


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## staystrong

So here's my refined summary:

I feel as though my wife was getting frustrated by married life and maybe some stuff to do with me personally. She wants to pursue music more as her passion, found that liberating, and over time found her music teacher attractive. She starts the affair. He's her secret boyfriend now. She starts to fall in love. Then he's much more to her than that. Our relationship is going downhill in the meantime because her affection is elsewhere. We don't have sex on a 4-day romantic trip I scheduled. She loves the sex with him. She loves that he just "takes her". She computer chats with him in secret every day, building a deep rapport. She sneaks off on a trip with him and decides she must leave me. It's over. Messy confession period, lots of arguing, me devastated, little or no remorse on her part. 

We were together for 7 years with 2 kids. What happened to commitment? She said "Am I expected to spend the rest of my life with one person?". I am her second husband, so maybe that was a sign she's not good with commitment.

So I here sit feeling absolutely rejected, replaced and second-best. Less of a man. Someone else is banging my wife. Has been for a while. Part of me just wants to shoot myself and get it over with. Or better yet, shoot the OM. Meanwhile, she probably thinks everything is great (well, you know except for destroying her H and wrecking the family part). But she's getting HER needs met and hey, it's a great new relationship! It's real romance, destiny, the best man for her yet (I'm assuming she thinks that). She's looking towards the future. She's never going back. A few months into the affair and she was already fantasizing about babies with him. W T F???? What kind of mentality is this? Was this the dopamine talking? We weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, dammit. We were husband and wife with children. You can't just chase the "in love" feeling around. You have to maintain it in your couple. 

I go between intense hate and intense love. It does not feel right to lose her but she's putting me in her rearview mirror. But I'm faking it until I make it.. this is the hardest thing I've ever done. Being nice to someone who betrayed me like that.

Despite it all, I want her back. I want her to see I'm the better man for her. But then.. am I?


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## staystrong

If it were free and easy to do, she would've divorced me by now. 

If I was so great for all those years, W T F happened?

I don't understand this...


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## 2ntnuf

You got tired and comfortable? Maybe you let her make too many decisions on her own or didn't give your opinion? Sex became routine, even though you wouldn't want to have it with anyone else? Therefore, she felt abandoned and in charge while placing you in the subordinate category in her mind? That is why she likes the OM "taking" her. Just some things that came up for me. I haven't read all of the posts in your thread. Hope my thoughts give you a different perspective to consider. Sorry to be so blunt.


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## Ostera

'We were together for 7 years with 2 kids. What happened to commitment? She said "Am I expected to spend the rest of my life with one person?". I am her second husband, so maybe that was a sign she's not good with commitment.'


SS that statement shows her character. I found out when my stbxw left me all kinds of things she told others. About never being able to spend her whole life with just one person.... If you have seen any of my posts by stbxw cheated on everyone she's ever been with.. I got stories that will spin your head.. mine split on 9/21 weeks after our anniversay.. I am doing better now. Not recovered, just better.


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## GutPunch

DIVORCE At least start the process. It's cases like yours and mine as to why it exists. Fight for your kids. If your son was a thirty year old man going thru this what would you tell him?


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## staystrong

2ntnuf said:


> You got tired and comfortable? Maybe you let her make too many decisions on her own or didn't give your opinion?


She called me "controlling" and "always wanting to be right" so I must have been voicing some opinions!

I was comfortable in the "I love my family" sense and was happy to spend most moments of the week with them. I was also dependent on her in a lot of ways because we were in her country. I think I became more enmeshed with family life, and she wanted to break out of that. Again, it was taking me time to build my own network.. most people did not speak English and I am still learning her language. 



2ntnuf said:


> Sex became routine, even though you wouldn't want to have it with anyone else? Therefore, she felt abandoned and in charge while placing you in the subordinate category in her mind?


Interesting comment.. why would that make her feel abandoned and in charge? I mean sex was routine in the sense that it was not novel/rhapsodic, not in the sense that it wasn't good. The one thing she told me was that I was more gentle, he more rough. I didn't think I was gentle (things definitely could get hot) but you know again we were in year 7 of our relationship with 2 young kids. Granted, we needed to tend to that, but I think we fell in the trap of putting other things first. So we had sex 1-2x a week. It's not that I only thought of my wife as the mother of kids; I still thought of her as hot and desirable. But her interest in me started dropping off. Sure, yeah, it's easy to be the OM and come in and ravage a lady. It's new, exciting, etc. Maybe she wanted things to be spicier in our relationship but wasn't communicating that. I think I probably wanted that too but was not communicating it well enough. Sex was still great, IMO. But not getting wild sex should not be a reason to fool around. That's completely immature and irresponsible, especially if kids are part of the equation. Sorry, but you don't put their security in jeopardy for your whims. Grow the F up..

I wish I had read Married Man Sex Life a year ago.


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## staystrong

Ostera said:


> 'We were together for 7 years with 2 kids. What happened to commitment? She said "Am I expected to spend the rest of my life with one person?". I am her second husband, so maybe that was a sign she's not good with commitment.'
> 
> 
> SS that statement shows her character. I found out when my stbxw left me all kinds of things she told others. About never being able to spend her whole life with just one person.... If you have seen any of my posts by stbxw cheated on everyone she's ever been with.. I got stories that will spin your head.. mine split on 9/21 weeks after our anniversay.. I am doing better now. Not recovered, just better.



Sorry about your story. Good to hear you are doing better. 

Yeah, you always wonder what kind of things she tells others. Especially the OM. He probably starts to see the H as a complete joke.


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## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> DIVORCE At least start the process. It's cases like yours and mine as to why it exists. Fight for your kids. If your son was a thirty year old man going thru this what would you tell him?


It would depend on what my son wants. I'd probably encourage him to stand strong, if that meant divorce or trying to win her back. If you can slow play the win back, how epic would that be?

My wife still knows I love her and want her back. I know, it's problematic in terms of the pursuer-distance dynamic. I've thought about writing a "okay, it's over, i'm moving on" letter but I think she would see through it. 

I will have my kids half-time which is great. My wife wants that. Either for the kids, herself of both, I am not sure. Don't care.

Divorce? What's the rush? What does it matter if I'm divorced or separated? I'm not remarrying any time soon.


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## staystrong

If you're reading this and you got your wife back after she moved in with OM, please share your story.


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## GutPunch

I said start the divorce process. Doesn't mean you have to folllow through. You are just letting her know that you are not a doormat. It sounds like to me you are just willing wait on this OM to have a heart attack. Do you think she will come back then? I know you want her back. I know the pain your in. Most of betrayed spouses do. How do you try and win someone back when they are living with someone else. You can't. Detach. 180.


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## staystrong

All the 180 is at this point is avoiding any talk which doesn't have to do with the children or financials. Brief greetings when we say hi or goodbye but that's it. There have been some slip ups but we're fairly good at it. You think divorce is the only next step? I'm afraid of divorce right now, man. I don't want it. 

The problem is she is the most attractive, charming, sexy, talented, complicated woman I know. I won't find another quite like her and it kills me. It took me 30 years to find her and it was a cosmic accident. Fated. (I'm sure the OM feels this way now, too.)

You don't realize what you've got til it's gone. I was a fool, GutPunch. I asked too much and didn't count my blessings. I should not have sweat the small stuff.


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## Chuck71

You are not perfect. Mistakes are made by both. A solid marriage would have both bringing up their issues and even saying, if these issues can not be resolved, a D may be in the future. You don't hear about that much because couples that actually do that, remain married and work through the issues.


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## 2ntnuf

I think I was combining the two thoughts and coming to some conclusion in my mind that maybe she felt you "weren't there".

Sorry for any confusion. Still hoping you work it out.

Edit: Actually that's the reason I read your thread. Hope. Maybe someone will make it work and improve what they had.


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## staystrong

I will work on Letting Go.

That seems to be the only strategy. 

It sounds crazy hard.


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## MSC71

It is hard. In the end you come out better and happier. Sounds like are more hurt on how things could of been. Buy focus on reality. She cheated on you and would most likely do it again if she came back.


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## Garry2012

I still slip, some days are good, some not so. Trying to pull away for my sake too. Seems to get easier every day.


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## Garry2012

staystrong said:


> Wow, total denial/refusal.
> 
> That's difficult to deal with. Good luck.


Yeah, SO unbelieveably frustrating. She wont admit to anything. This is where i get sucked back in with anger, i HAVE to just not text/talk to her anymore...she denys EVERYTHING or just ignores.


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## GutPunch

The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste


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## Chuck71

Garry-I have bad days/nights. But I feel a light at the end of the cave. I no longer know who she is. In a certain part of my mind, the woman I married has died. lol currently having a bad day after a bad night, i think it's just the accepting of finality


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## Garry2012

Chuck71 said:


> Garry-I have bad days/nights. But I feel a light at the end of the cave. I no longer know who she is. In a certain part of my mind, the woman I married has died. lol currently having a bad day after a bad night, i think it's just the accepting of finality


Me too, having a good day after a bad one and bad night. I told her the woman i knew is dead. I am ok with the finality, i worry about my kids now more than anything. Her denial and lack of respect makes me so ef'n angry, but i have to not let myself talk to her, or expect anything. I did the 180 and she was fine with it, thats when i realized its over...she doesnt care at this point. I document it all, so when she cares in a year or so, i will be totally ok giving her back the cold, noncaring shoulder.


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## Chuck71

I wrote a letter to my first love right after it was over. I kept that letter until she come around about a year and a half later. I gave her that letter and said it will explain why I will never want to be a couple again. I told her that with a conviction I'd have never felt before. That was 1992. She tried to hook up with me on FB only a year ago. Yes both times she was married. Need I say more?


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## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste


Great. Now I don't feel like a real man after reading this, and that OM is filling that role. This made my f'ing day.

I do think my wife wanted me to not put up with her *****iness by taking more control and throwing her over my shoulder and taking her to the bedroom. In the past year I became much more beta, in part due to her subtle rejections of me during the affair. I responded with mixed bullying/wimpiness I suppose. 

The thing is I will always feel like a loser if I can't follow the Commandments in THAT relationship. I need to find a way back in.


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## staystrong

Chuck71 said:


> I wrote a letter to my first love right after it was over. I kept that letter until she come around about a year and a half later. I gave her that letter and said it will explain why I will never want to be a couple again. I told her that with a conviction I'd have never felt before. That was 1992. She tried to hook up with me on FB only a year ago. Yes both times she was married. Need I say more?


That's quite a delayed effect. (1.5 years)

Prob is I do want it to be on again. ASAP.


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## Garry2012

Funny, my stbxw said she liked to be taken, so last year i would. Grab take etc. Then in July, when this all blew up, i was "treating her like a piece of meat" and shouldnt just help myself to her. So then i was the bad guy for taking her. Argg...


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## Ostera

Garry2012 said:


> I still slip, some days are good, some not so. Trying to pull away for my sake too. Seems to get easier every day.


That's where I am trying to get. I still think of her everyday. My issue is I can't seem to lock onto the fact that my situation was doomed from the beginning. I was just 'another guy' on her adventure through life. She told me she will probably end up alone like her mother. Now that I know what BPD is, I will never allow myself to get involved with one.


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## GutPunch

Staystrong, after children, it is only natural for some of us to turn more beta. I know I picked up alot of beta qualities when the kids arrived. No more golf, guy nights out, fishing trips etc. However, her cheating is not your fault. Your first step is to regain that self esteem that cheating ***** that you have on a pedestal stole from you. I am in the same boat as you as I too had my wife on a peedestal. However, I refuse to let mine see any weakness and you can too. Get focused on you and becoming the best man and father you can be without her. She is a POS for cheating and trust me she does not deserve the pedestal you have got her on. Do not beg, plead, chase as it just makes her pity you and pushes the distance even further.


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## Chuck71

That was in teen years LOL......it took about 4 months and i met my 'thought to be real love' lol again but remember i was still a teen, 19 allbeit. about 6 months after i told my 2nd true love to take a hike.....i met W. worst case is 15 great years, take the memories and move on. You have no real choice


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## Chuck71

Garry with her lane changes i am guessing she is a sh1tty driver


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## Garry2012

yeah, which is why i have given up on trying to figure out what she wants.


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## Chuck71

give her a sammy hagar cd and say goodbye


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## daisygirl 41

Just wondering guys, would it make a difference if your wife's AP dumped her rather than her dumping him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012

daisygirl 41 said:


> Just wondering guys, would it make a difference if your wife's AP dumped her rather than her dumping him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would to me. Shows SHE is making the initiative, not forced to take me as her plan b. But she would have to follow that up with EFFORT to save us.


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## GutPunch

It really shouldn't matter. Cheater is a cheater. I would rather she dump him but in the grand scheme of things I still got betrayed.


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## Chuck71

daisy-x2b just joined dating site. made sure i saw it on bank statement online. i think i have a pic of me with my pants actually down from years ago, a tender heartfel KMA moment. Holiday card?????


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## Chuck71

trusting a cheating spouse is like saying barry bonds hit all those home runs on pure talent. GTFOH


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## Garry2012

I would be willing to go to counciling etc, im not perfect either and people make mistakes. BUT, it would take a LONG time, and alot of solid compromise (lose FB, end male "friendships", endure LOTs of suspicion from me) before i would take her back. I know THAT aint happening for me...


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## staystrong

daisygirl 41 said:


> Just wondering guys, would it make a difference if your wife's AP dumped her rather than her dumping him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ideally she dumps him. She wants to come back to me. 

If he dumps her, that's okay too because then she will know humility and finally understand my heartache. We could rebuild through that.


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## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> Staystrong, after children, it is only natural for some of us to turn more beta. I know I picked up alot of beta qualities when the kids arrived. No more golf, guy nights out, fishing trips etc. However, her cheating is not your fault. Your first step is to regain that self esteem that cheating ***** that you have on a pedestal stole from you. I am in the same boat as you as I too had my wife on a peedestal. However, I refuse to let mine see any weakness and you can too. Get focused on you and becoming the best man and father you can be without her. She is a POS for cheating and trust me she does not deserve the pedestal you have got her on. Do not beg, plead, chase as it just makes her pity you and pushes the distance even further.



Why do you want to give up so easily?

If you want her, and you still see her from time to time, then in my book you still have a chance. She will notice the changes.

The fact that you have a history together and kids together means something. Maybe she is in love with another man but she's proven that love is somewhat fickle and can change. She could come back if she were attracted to you again. Her loyalty may not be to him at this point, only herself. What you need is her loyalty to be back to you. Is that impossible? Could a master PUA make it happen? 

How about we Let Go and 180 the idea that we can't win them back. Maybe we can!


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## GutPunch

Not giving up is the time period before wife bangs another man.

180 is time period after wife bangs another man.

YOU CAN AND WILL DO BETTER. YOUR WIFE IS A POS!
YOU DESERVE SOMEONE TO LOVE YOU!


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## staystrong

Meal said:


> MAN UP!
> Seriously... Why hasn't this "OM" just disappeared already?
> If I were in your position, she'd just disappear with him.
> 
> Think about it this way, when you kiss her worthless lips do you REALLY want to taste the dirt-bag she has recently "tasted"???
> 
> Drop the love-her-so-much garbage, she cheated on you, she left you... She's a POS.


If he's out of the picture, then it's just the memories do deal with. Not any semen. Gross, man. 

Is there any scenario where you would go back with a cheating wife?


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## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> Not giving up is the time period before wife bangs another man.
> 
> 180 is time period after wife bangs another man.
> 
> YOU CAN AND WILL DO BETTER. YOUR WIFE IS A POS!
> YOU DESERVE SOMEONE TO LOVE YOU!


I REFUSE TO LOSE!!

Sorry, I can't stand to lose out to this guy. I hate the fact that she may be doing stuff with him that we never did together.


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## GutPunch

I am sure that lots of people rekindle old flames. However, not often. Remember you need to focus on improving your life and not on getting her back. She is gone. If she comes back, it will be entirely up to her and not you. You sitting there waiting will only cause you more pain and suffering.


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## staystrong

Like I wonder if she's into light spanking now or something? She mentioned he was more rough, I was more gentle. But what the f*ck, I'm not Casper Milquetoast over here. I think I just didn't know what she wanted - that she needed to be "taken" more. 

Why couldn't she have picked someone more beta than me? LOL It's killing me


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## daisygirl 41

Thanks for responding.
I am 9 months into R with my H. It's going well. H dumped his AP and I was surprised her H had her back as she was besotted with my H, just wanted perspectives if it made a difference who the dumped / dumpee was.

Lots of harsh comments here and name calling, careful guys, you can get banned for the name calling!

OP there is always hope if you want to R. The boards here are full of tried and tested survival techniques and tips. Of course the most commented is the 180! It works, helps you to move on and become strong!

Not sure if you've done it but the best way to end the A is exposure. It blew my Hs A wide open. It got worse before it got better but it opened his eyes big time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong

GutPunch said:


> I am sure that lots of people rekindle old flames. However, not often. Remember you need to focus on improving your life and not on getting her back. She is gone. If she comes back, it will be entirely up to her and not you. You sitting there waiting will only cause you more pain and suffering.


Do you think I'm exaggerating/obsessing? Her value, her opinion of me?

Isn't it a test on some level? If a woman leaves you then you failed the test? You weren't able to meet her needs fully?

Women can you weigh in here?


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## daisygirl 41

GutPunch said:


> I am sure that lots of people rekindle old flames. However, not often. Remember you need to focus on improving your life and not on getting her back. She is gone. If she comes back, it will be entirely up to her and not you. You sitting there waiting will only cause you more pain and suffering.


Agree totally! 
You can't control her actions. Only your own! 
Ever heard of the little Bo Beep scenario?
Leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thanks for responding.
> I am 9 months into R with my H. It's going well. H dumped his AP and I was surprised her H had her back as she was besotted with my H, just wanted perspectives if it made a difference who the dumped / dumpee was.
> 
> Lots of harsh comments here and name calling, careful guys, you can get banned for the name calling!
> 
> OP there is always hope if you want to R. The boards here are full of tried and tested survival techniques and tips. Of course the most commented is the 180! It works, helps you to move on and become strong!
> 
> Not sure if you've done it but the best way to end the A is exposure. It blew my Hs A wide open. It got worse before it got better but it opened his eyes big time!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am pretty sure my STBXW would EVER talk to me again if i did that....forget getting her back, or R, or talking again.


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## staystrong

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thanks for responding.
> OP there is always hope if you want to R. The boards here are full of tried and tested survival techniques and tips. Of course the most commented is the 180! It works, helps you to move on and become strong!
> 
> Not sure if you've done it but the best way to end the A is exposure. It blew my Hs A wide open. It got worse before it got better but it opened his eyes big time!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My WS is living with OM. Different situation, I think.

I'm obsessed about their sex life. 

Thing is we never did stuff with sex toys, or spanking, or whatever. I keep on thinking they are doing stuff like that. It wasn't from a lack of desire, probably just a lack of timing and making it happen. Regular sex was good so there wasn't this explicit need to fill it in. But maybe we didn't realize what we were missing out on. My wife is pretty sexual and it kills me to think I am missing out on some new era of hers. I want in. I want her to know I want that to. It's killing me you guys.


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## Garry2012

I know what you mean, though just to a smaller extent. I believe my STBXW is intimate too with her new man, and prob like it was when we dated. She has the whole day to herself, so for all i know he is at the house right now..i dunno. I dont think about it. I try to rationalize it as I dont think about my coworkers etc life, why care about hers. It helps me some.


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## staystrong

To be honest, I don't fully understand why men wouldn't take their wives back after an affair because of the sexual indiscretion. Yet they would go back to a wife who would take THEM back after an affair.

That to me is simple pride. However, if you feel you could not take them back due to the trust.. okay. 

Every case in unique. 

In my case, I would enjoy having her back even though she may have had experiences with someone else. Maybe I will have experiences with another person in between that time. What does it matter if we were happy we found each other again? That's the emotion you would prize.


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## Garry2012

I agree, i would still take her back...but boy would it take alot of work on her side...and I dont see her changing her life direction anytime soon. She desparately wants freedom....and male friends. At this point, i would be way to distrusting of either. I dont see a way out of D for me. She will need to see if the freedom she seeks is what she really wanted in life...but i will be long gone by then.


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## staystrong

Garry2012 said:


> I know what you mean, though just to a smaller extent. I believe my STBXW is intimate too with her new man, and prob like it was when we dated. She has the whole day to herself, so for all i know he is at the house right now..i dunno. I dont think about it. I try to rationalize it as I dont think about my coworkers etc life, why care about hers. It helps me some.


For me there is a lot of simple regret. Like damn, why wasn't I all over her all the time?! She's a very desirable woman and I could have brought out the tigress in her again. I was not direct enough with my desires because I thought maybe she didn't want to do the things I wanted. (too dirty or whatever)

I also blame porn. It creates the madonna /***** issue with a wife and we think she's not going to be into certain things. When she probably is.

My wife even asked me at one point what some of fantasies were and I didn't even think to say some rather simple stuff. Positions, more of this more of that. 

So do you understand why it;s hard for me to let go? There's unfinished business.


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## Garry2012

Yeah, i can see that. My story is different. I was always the one pushing for more intimacy, she never wanted to discuss or anything...it was always a chore to her. Heck, she wouldnt do the most simple thing for me. So she may be doing it for the OM now, but it will end...she just isnt that person normally.


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## GutPunch

Blah Blah Blah Where is you two's focus?


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## daisygirl 41

Garry2012 said:


> I am pretty sure my STBXW would EVER talk to me again if i did that....forget getting her back, or R, or talking again.


It really is one of the tried and tested ways of ending the A though. Gives the fantasy a huge dose of reality. My Hs EA/PA lasted 12 months on and off, the OWH exposed it and it was all over in 3 weeks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012

GutPunch said:


> Blah Blah Blah Where is you two's focus?


My focus now? On ME...not her...Moving on with my life...


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## Garry2012

daisygirl 41 said:


> It really is one of the tried and tested ways of ending the A though. Gives the fantasy a huge dose of reality. My Hs EA/PA lasted 12 months on and off, the OWH exposed it and it was all over in 3 weeks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would, but for what? She would continue with the divorce, never talk to me again (still have many years of kid sharing to do) and then her family would really really resent her.

its not the only issues we have, she has many male friends that i dont like, want FAR more freedom than i think i can give her, and wants to live on her own.

Are you working on your marriage now?


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## Jntrs

wow, i understand completely that you want your wife back, but you're doing it wrong, listen to these guys focus on you

as to the 180 is there a link to it? im currently separated and its eating me alive.


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## Garry2012

Jntrs said:


> wow, i understand completely that you want your wife back, but you're doing it wrong, listen to these guys focus on you
> 
> as to the 180 is there a link to it? im currently separated and its eating me alive.


yeah, i know. I have been in the 180 for a while, yet yesterday (maybe it was VDAY) I wanted to start GPSing her care again....why? I keep asking myself. Partially to know who OM is...partially I think, deep down, i want more evidence. No reason that i need it...she has given me and everyone she knows the ILYBNILWY speech as to why she wants out (sans MC of course). I think its always a struggle until you REALLY let go, or find someone else to focus you attn on.


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## Jntrs

i got to post my situation, and its pretty much like everybody else's

yeah yesterday i went and got something for her, just went with my gut, got one of those cards that says the currently situation, she read it but no emotion what so ever, i took the card back and burned it after i left, do i want her back, part of me wants to part of me doesnt

again any place where i can read about the do' and don'ts of the 180? i cant seem to find it anywhere


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## Garry2012

No, doing anything like giving her a card, just shows that your groveling. I learned that...my SBTXW told me i was trying to guilt her to stay. On our anniversay in august, she "didnt know what our status was". those are all signs they have checked out. 

can you search for the 180?


----------



## Jntrs

Garry2012 said:


> No, doing anything like giving her a card, just shows that your groveling. I learned that...my SBTXW told me i was trying to guilt her to stay. On our anniversay in august, she "didnt know what our status was". those are all signs they have checked out.
> 
> can you search for the 180?


yeah pretty much shes into the other guy, we'll see how that plays out

i tried searching, is it a thread or you meant on google?


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## Lovingwife315

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## Jntrs

Lovingwife315 said:


> The Healing Heart: The 180


 thank you very much


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## Garry2012

My STBXW was too gone for the 180....she used it to justify that I didnt love her, as in "look he doenst pay attn to me at all" to OM.


----------



## Isuck

I did the 180. It worked but I got to the point where I realized I didn't want her anymore!


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## Garry2012

Yeah, i can see that too. At some point the rose colored glasses come off.


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## naga75

staystrong said:


> To be honest, I don't fully understand why men wouldn't take their wives back after an affair because of the sexual indiscretion. Yet they would go back to a wife who would take THEM back after an affair.
> 
> That to me is simple pride. However, if you feel you could not take them back due to the trust.. okay.
> 
> Every case in unique.
> 
> In my case, I would enjoy having her back even though she may have had experiences with someone else. Maybe I will have experiences with another person in between that time. What does it matter if we were happy we found each other again? That's the emotion you would prize.


here's how i got past that:
he didnt go anywhere i hadn't been.
many times. period. so it wasnt like they were doing all this stuff that we had never done because, eh, we have pretty much done it all. it is pride. about someone else having your woman.
its more of the emotional side of the affair that hung me up. that and the sheer level of lying for so long so thouroughly and so WELL, and being "ok" with that enough to continue doing it for two years. that part hurts worse than the sex part. way worse.


----------



## staystrong

naga75 said:


> here's how i got past that:
> he didnt go anywhere i hadn't been.
> many times. period. so it wasnt like they were doing all this stuff that we had never done because, eh, we have pretty much done it all. it is pride. about someone else having your woman.
> its more of the emotional side of the affair that hung me up. that and the sheer level of lying for so long so thouroughly and so WELL, and being "ok" with that enough to continue doing it for two years. that part hurts worse than the sex part. way worse.


Both hurt.

Having your woman be with another man is a shotgun blast to the ego. I know a lot of guys could not see past it. I don't know if I could, I haven't had a chance to try (we're going through D, not R - her decision), but I imagine it would be hard. They did some things we hadn't done and that tears me up inside. But really it's my fault for not initiating.

Yes, the lies and deceit are the real killers. The fundamental betrayal of trust. I hope you two are able to build that trust again.


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## naga75

I hope so too. We are certainly trying. Its going to take a long time for me to build a high level of trust for her, and it wont ever be blind and unconditional again. Ever. 
I know that, and more importantly, so does she. 
A lot of people would say why be in a marrige that there isnt implicit trust? 
My answer to that is, knowing myself, i dont know that i would give ANYONE that again after all this. And i would prefer to find it withbthe woman i vowed to keep thru bad times as well as good, the mother of my children. I think she deserves the chance. And i know my kids deserve it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garry2012

yep kids are the ONLY reason the thought of taking her back even enters my head...but even then...not sure. Once they are adjusted...i dunno....i just dont know.


----------



## ExisaWAW

Hi SS, What's your current status? You & I are in the same boat. My wife had an affair that led to our D 11 months ago. She immediately started dating (she can't stand to be alone) and after going through 4 guys, has been with her 5th for 8 months now. To me it looks strong. Funny thing is that he's been married twice prior and his last wife cheated on him, causing that D!

He has 3 kids and my ex has 2. I can't see her taking care of 5 kids but you never know.

I am at the point, 11 months after the D, where I finally need to get a life. I've been out of work for over a year (since just before I found out about the affair) from a very high paying career. The economy has really had an impact on my field and I realize I am no good to my kids or anyone else without a career.

I feel for you SS. I would take my ex back in a heartbeat. My friends think I'm nuts. Once a cheater, always a cheater is what they say. I'm a good looking guy & I always thought I had good self-esteem, so I think I just really love her, and honestly, there's nothing wrong with that.

I am a Christian man and the Bible is clear that she should reconcile herself to me. And, I really want our 2 daughters to grow up in a household with both parents. So far they seem to be handling things well, but they're very young (8 & 12). Neither one of us say anything negative about the other parent, which I'm sure helps. Heck, my girls know their Dad is nuts about their Mom.

The only thing that bugs me is that my ex has recently introduced his kids to our kids. All signs point to her relationship being a strong one. It will have to run its course if we are to have any chance of getting back together.

So, for now, all I can do is get my life/ career back on track, get some new hobbies and a brighter outlook on life, keep doing the 180 (this is new for me), and keep praying for God to heal me & somehow allow her to see the error in her ways, repent, and want me back.

Of all that stuff, the only thing I have control over is the 180, getting my life back, and staying faithful to God in prayer & actions.

It's a somewhat helpless feeling SS, but what else are we to do. Pining over our exes and displaying unattractive behaviors will definitely not work. Our exes know we would have them back. The ball is in their courts now.

Best of luck and keep us updated!


----------



## staystrong

Hi Exisa,

We are finalizing our D and I keep in minimum contact with my soon to be ex. I don't let my ex think I want her back. If anything, she probably thinks I hate her. Part of me does. 

Given the details of what you wrote, I think you really need to concentrate on moving forward. I know it's tough (trust me, I battle with it every day), but clearly your wife is gone. She does not share your values and she is looking for something different than what she had with you. Focusing on your career is a great step and will introduce you to more people. Don't let your ex dominate your mind. It's hard but you have to do it.

She's been with at least 5 other men at this point. Ask yourself, "Why do I want this person back?". The person you knew has said to hell with you I want to be with a different kind of man. More than likely, this is all about her issues not yours.


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## Garry2012

Same boat here as well SS. Finalizing D, STBXW thinks I hate her, and like you, some of me does. I hate who she has become. I battle it everyday, with memories of who she was, and I feel strongly that she will one day exit this fog and be miserable...i tried and tried to prevent that, but now its all on her. The only to go on is to move on.


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## Chuck71

Garry-Most former SAHMs have no clue what chaos is, much less owning it.


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## Garry2012

true...i protected her from all that....as we all prob did to some extent. Onwards and upwards.


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## Chuck71

full power Mr. Scotty


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