# Husband lies a lot



## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Ok, so my husband and I are 26 years old. Been together for 12 years. Have 3 children. 
My husband is an amazing man. Very kind, hardworking, handsome, great father. We have definitely had our problems, as any relationship does. I have noticed over the years he has this really bad habit of lying. Like, about stupid stuff that doesn't make sense. I am not talking about just lying to me. He lies a lot to avoid confrontation. About really dumb stuff. 
Now, I can relate. Somewhat. Sometimes I lie in awkward situations. someone asks if I will babysit and instead of saying "no i really hate babysitting" I will say "I have a thing that day" haha. He does this type of stuff all day everyday. He has gotten caught in lies several times. It makes me kind of afraid who is going to catch him in a lie next lol. 

But that is his own problem and i have learned to let him learn that the hard way. But he still does it to me constantly. For example, the other day he traded a dirt bike for some nice rims for his truck. He did this transaction during his lunch hour. I am constantly on his phone (we just dont care if we use each others phone, we do it often) anyway i saw that he sent a pic of these rims to his friend and it said "look at my new rims". I remember him showing me a pic of these rims but he just said "do you like these rims?" But he never said anything about getting them. 
After that i tried to fish for him to tell me about it. I said "hey what did you do on your lunch yesterday, you didnt stop by the house like you usually do... he said he didnt take a lunch he just worked through his lunch hour. After feeling annoyed for an hour i said "i know you got rims on your lunch hour, why are you so afraid to tell me that?" He just said he was sorry and he didnt think it was a big deal. Anyway, things like that he lies about all the time. 

I assume it is because he is afraid i will get mad at these various things. He lies about going to friends house after work. He will tell me he got off at 6 when his friend will say something about him coming by after work at 5. I guess he thinks i will get mad that he stopped by there before coming home. 

The thing is, these things dont bother me. I dont care if he stops by his friends. I dont care if he buys rims. Its his money too. Yes, in the past i have gotten upset under certain circumstances. Like legitimate circumstances. (Like one time i was begging for him to come home asap to help with the baby, he instead went to his friends house for 30 mins after work, so of course i was upset. I was a sleep deprived mama needing help! I have explained that i only ask him to come home asap when i really need the help) 

He admits that he doesn't like confrontation, and he admits he is trying to stop the habit. I told him it makes me feel like we arent close when he cant trust me enough to tell me simple truths. 

So, if you are someone who lies a lot to your spouse. Please tell me why? I cant get him to trust me enough with the truth. How do I get him to feel safe to tell me the friggin truth. I realize it is because he fears peoples response to the truth about things. But it needs to stop. I feel so distanced from him when he lies like this. I realize it is human nature to tell white lies often. But this is a regular habit that i am fed up with...

What do i do to help him stop? 


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

If he lies about little things, then he's also lying about big things.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

He sounds like he is a conflict avoider, passive agressive, and a "nice guy" according to the book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy." (Nice guys are not really nice, is the premise of the book.)

He will eventually lie about larger things, if he is not already. He is damaging the relationship with you, distancing himself, and is keeping the two of you from being "one."

He will not change his behavior until you stop tolerating it, and hold his feet to the fire. You can't get into playing games about it, you must decide on your boundaries and stick to them. Your marriage may get worse when you start doing this, but that is the only way he is going to realize the damage he is doing....when he realizes he has lost you, or is on the verge of losing you due to his lying.

Not an easy fix.

Does this article remind you of your marriage? The Boomerang Relationship: Passivity, Irresponsibility and Resulting Partner Anger - article by Dr. Lynne Namka


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> If he lies about little things, then he's also lying about big things.


Well the actual act of lying doesnt bother me if it is a "big thing". If i did something bad and i regretted it, of course i would probably lie about it. Its the actual act that is distressing, not the lying part. I mean 90%of people would lie to cover it up, unless they were ready to admit it and risk losing everything. As bad as that sounds, i understand lying about big things. Its kind of hard to tell someone you screwed up big time. 

I am completely aware that he would lie about big things, but like i said i understand why you would lie about something big. Your afraid of losing that person over a mistake. Its understandable to lie about it. (Although commendable to tell the truth, obviously)

It is lying about the small things that really bothers me. It means he thinks i am some kind of unreasonable horrible wife that would be upset by things that I wouldnt be upset about! Its a sign that he doesnt know what kind of person i am. I like to think i am a laid back women who has a great relationship with him. But the reality is, he thinks he has to lie to avoid me getting upset about things i wouldnt get upset about.

Like i said, i realize i have not handled certain situations properly. I know that is where his fear stems from...i have apologized many times and explained i wouldnt normally be upset under different circumstances. 

Basically my question is...how do i get him to trust that my reaction will be one of understanding and acceptance (maybe slightly compromising if I do disagree with something). I realize in the past there has been times i was not understanding and just plain angry (like when we were broke and he bought something stupid, or like the time i asked him to come help me and he went to a friends and took his happy little time coming home). i realize i should have reacted with more understanding and patience. But i by no means do this often. I can think of a handful of times over our 12 year relationship that i have accidentally overreacted. Always while i was under tremendous stress. 


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Renee0414 said:


> Well the actual act of lying doesnt bother me if it is a "big thing". If i did something bad and i regretted it, of course i would probably lie about it. Its the actual act that is distressing, not the lying part. I mean 90%of people would lie to cover it up, unless they were ready to admit it and risk losing everything. As bad as that sounds, i understand lying about big things. Its kind of hard to tell someone you screwed up big time.
> 
> I am completely aware that he would lie about big things, but like i said i understand why you would lie about something big. Your afraid of losing that person over a mistake. Its understandable to lie about it. (Although commendable to tell the truth, obviously)
> 
> ...


This is not on you to fix, it is on him. Perhaps you overreacted about something he did but your reaction was honest. By lying he is taking away the trust in the relationship and he is not doing it protect you from anything, it is self serving for him. Anything lying beyond 'no, honey, your butt doesn't look big in those pants' is unacceptable and will destroy the trust in the relationship.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

More than likely something he has been doing since a child and only he will be able to make the change in himself. You are not responsible for his actions and you do not need to make yourself responsible, or try to help.. This is not about you, this is about him. If it were about you he would be different with other people and more than likely that is not the case. As you said that you would expect him to lie about the big things....think about that. What don't you know and how will you know the truth?


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He sounds like he is a conflict avoider, passive agressive, and a "nice guy" according to the book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy." (Nice guys are not really nice, is the premise of the book.)
> 
> He will eventually lie about larger things, if he is not already. He is damaging the relationship with you, distancing himself, and is keeping the two of you from being "one."
> 
> ...


Actually no, the article sounds nothing like him. He doesn't have an anger issue or passive aggressive issue. The article was a bit confusing to me but nowhere in what i did understand sounds like him at all. He simply lies because he is afraid of what people will say about the truth. Like, if he knows someone will not like an answer he will just lie to avoid that. I mean, i do it to! (Im being honest about lying...how ironic) i just would never feel like i needed to lie to him. I know he would be reasonable with his reaction to something he disagrees with me about so i dont feel like i need to lie. my problem is...he is doing it to me! Which makes me feel like he doesnt trust my reaction. I dont want him to think of me as a wife that wouldnt understand, and that is what i feel like he thinks when he lies. 

If anyone has ever watched Jimmy and karen Marriage Today. You know that he talks about how important it is to create a space in your marriage that is safe. Meaning, your reactions to your spouse need to show your spouse that it is safe to share and safe to discuss things. Otherwise, you either get a spouse that doesnt come to you with problems, or a spouse that lies to avoid negative reaction. Not that it is okay to do those things, but it helps avoid those things. I completely agree and so i realize that somehow i have led him to believe I would respond negatively to certain things

I dont know how to get back to him feeling safe to tell me the real story. 

My husband doesnt have any other issues. We actually have a great relationship, full of laughter, shared hobbies, great sex, quality time together. He shares his feelings with me, we talk often about problems we have. Which this lying issue we do talk about. He does understand why it hurts me. He doesnt mean to hurt me. Its just a knee jerk reaction he has when he feels like it might "turn into an argument". We are nowhere near divorce. Quite the opposite, i am 100% sure we will be together for a very long time. We just know how to resolve issues and have learned a lot over the years. 


I understand the reason for the lying habit. I understand that it is easier to lie sometimes, especially with certain people! I am just hurt that I have become one of those people....

Its commendable to tell the truth when you do something stupid (like tell your boss you slept in instead of lying and saying you got stuck at a wreck) but i dont think it makes you a bad person if you dont tell the truth sometimes. It just means you lack courage to endure the negative reaction from people. I dont see my husband as a horrible person because of this. I am more hurt because he feels afraid of my reaction now. I dont know how to get the trust back. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> This is not on you to fix, it is on him. Perhaps you overreacted about something he did but your reaction was honest. By lying he is taking away the trust in the relationship and he is not doing it protect you from anything, it is self serving for him. Anything lying beyond 'no, honey, your butt doesn't look big in those pants' is unacceptable and will destroy the trust in the relationship.


I didnt say he said he was doing it to protect me. He admits it is a selfish act. He just doesnt want to get into an argument about something he thinks is no big deal, but thinks I will disagree about. 

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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Renee0414 said:


> I understand the reason for the lying habit. I understand that it is easier to lie sometimes, especially with certain people! I am just hurt that I have become one of those people....
> 
> Its commendable to tell the truth when you do something stupid (like tell your boss you slept in instead of lying and saying you got stuck at a wreck) but i dont think it makes you a bad person if you dont tell the truth sometimes. It just means you lack courage to endure the negative reaction from people. I dont see my husband as a horrible person because of this. I am more hurt because he feels afraid of my reaction now. I dont know how to get the trust back.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


If you continue to excuse his lying and say you understand why he does, he will keep doing it.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> More than likely something he has been doing since a child and only he will be able to make the change in himself. You are not responsible for his actions and you do not need to make yourself responsible, or try to help.. This is not about you, this is about him. If it were about you he would be different with other people and more than likely that is not the case. As you said that you would expect him to lie about the big things....think about that. What don't you know and how will you know the truth?


He actually is different with certain people. He doesnt lie to his friends. Because he knows even if they dont approve they wont go into "lecture" or "argument" mode. He lies to his boss, to his dad and to people he doesnt want to disappoint .....and to me obviously. 

I do believe it has become somewhat of a habit knee jerk reaction. He definitely doesnt like conflict or disappointment. Neither do i really though. 

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You both lie. You even condone it in certain circumstances. It's ok if he lies to other people, but not to you.

What are going to do when all three of your children start to tell lies? It's not like you and your husband are great role models in that area.

Owning your stuff is part of growing up and maturing.


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## CMD1978 (Apr 9, 2016)

Your husband sounds like a pathological liar. It's an actual mental condition. People with this condition will lie about anything even things that are totally unimportant. You can't change this without professional counseling. I highly advise you to Google it and see if it sounds familiar.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He needs therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Lilac23 said:


> If you continue to excuse his lying and say you understand why he does, he will keep doing it.


He's going to keep lying regardless but excusing his actions is not going to make things better for anyone in the long run. Loved-ones can have compassion for liar and cheats but it does not change their actions.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Renee0414 said:


> He actually is different with certain people. He doesnt lie to his friends. Because he knows even if they dont approve they wont go into "lecture" or "argument" mode. He lies to his boss, to his dad and to people he doesnt want to disappoint .....and to me obviously.
> 
> I do believe it has become somewhat of a habit knee jerk reaction. He definitely doesnt like conflict or disappointment. Neither do i really though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


Okay, now we are getting somewhere here. He lies to his dad because he does not want to disappoint is dad. This tells me that your husband is not a very strong person. He does not have certainty about himself. Rather than using his own true-to-himself honesty in approaching issues he becomes the weasel that wants to please and make himself look good at the same time. He is afraid to disappoint but the truth of the matter is he is not looking at reality here. Once a lie is found out there becomes mistrust and if daddy finds out he will be disappointed. It is much better to tell the truth to daddy and to the boss and stand behind that truth than to get caught in that lie. Sometime the truth is not pleasant but if he is going to reach maturity and be true to himself this it is important to speak the truth and honor your feelings.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I think you have to try to instill some confidence in him and have him get over his fear of conflict. It may be better for him to tell the truth and let you get mad. 

Part of this is your upbringing. If you had a parent who was supportive during problems, you learned it was better to get advice and tell the truth, while if you had parent who compounded problems during conflict, you learned to try to avoid conflict and hide information.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Conflict avoiders are child-like in that they are afraid of upsetting people and they would rather lie than face consequences like someone being unhappy with them. When they grow up, they aren't lying about who took a cookie, or who forgot to put their glass in the dishwasher, they eventually lie about things that actually harm the marriage.

Both of you should stop lying about big and small things, or your marriage will be a very unhappy one, and may end up in divorce over a big lie, like an EA or a PA.

A marriage where either or both partners lies is not conducive to oneness, and will develop cracks that will eventually lead to greater issues that can end in divorce.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Conflict avoiders are child-like in that they are afraid of upsetting people and they would rather lie than face consequences like someone being unhappy with them. When they grow up, they aren't lying about who took a cookie, or who forgot to put their glass in the dishwasher, they eventually lie about things that actually harm the marriage.
> 
> Both of you should stop lying about big and small things, or your marriage will be a very unhappy one, and may end up in divorce over a big lie, like an EA or a PA.
> 
> A marriage where either or both partners lies is not conducive to oneness, and will develop cracks that will eventually lead to greater issues that can end in divorce.


Absolutely target on. Lady, if your husband is trying to save his face instead of facing his situation with honesty and integrity, he will stop at nothing and you make find yourself thrown under the bus, blamed for his actions so he comes out smelling like a rose.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Okay, now we are getting somewhere here. He lies to his dad because he does not want to disappoint is dad. This tells me that your husband is not a very strong person. He does not have certainty about himself. Rather than using his own true-to-himself honesty in approaching issues he becomes the weasel that wants to please and make himself look good at the same time. He is afraid to disappoint but the truth of the matter is he is not looking at reality here. Once a lie is found out there becomes mistrust and if daddy finds out he will be disappointed. It is much better to tell the truth to daddy and to the boss and stand behind that truth than to get caught in that lie. Sometime the truth is not pleasant but if he is going to reach maturity and be true to himself this it is important to speak the truth and honor your feelings.


I agree, and yes he does understand this. We do talk about this and he is trying. I have watched him actually tell the truth to people lately even when it was uncomfortable. One day he came home and told me that he went ahead and told the truth about something instead making up something. He does realize he needs to mature in this area. Im just wondering if i can do something to create a space that he feels like he "can" tell the truth to me. 

He lies when he knows that the truth will enter into a lecture or argument that he doesnt feel is necessary. For instance, a common lie is when he has to run to a friends house after work to help him with something. In the past, like i mentioned earlier, i was furious that he went to help his friend instead of helping his wife with the baby when he knew i was struggling. But in his mind, he thought there was no way out of helping his friend or me, so he did both. So, to avoid the argument, he just comes home, says he just got off work, because icant get mad at that! Ugh! Except i wouldnt have been mad, because i dont need his help the way i did when we had a baby to take care of!... so now he is just in this habit of avoiding conflict. 

Anyway, he understands it is a problem. I do not tell him that i understand why he lies. (I know that would make him feel justified)...i just acknowledge why he has this problem in my own head. i tell him this lying makes me feel like we are not close and it will end badly if he continues. I tell him it makes me not trust a single word he is saying. And i wont trust a single word he says until he starts telling me the truth.

He is actually a decent person. The type that would chase you down to give you the 100 bucks you just dropped in the street. (Yes, he has done this). He owns his own business (and works for someone on the side) and i see how he makes sure the customer is taken care of. He always makes sure he isnt over charging. He pays his employees way more than any other company because he thinks they deserve it. he cares about other people. He has had opportunities to rip people off (like charging way more than he should) and has never ripped anyone off. He would never steal, or hurt someone to get his way. He has never mentally or physically abused anyone. If someone pisses him off (including me) yes he raises his voice but he keeps his words reasonable and collected. Then he kind of walks away and comes back to talk later when the situation has settled. 

All of that to say, i know his heart. We habe been together since we were 14, i have seen every inch of his heart. He is an honest person. His only issue is lying to avoid conflict or disappointment. I know that doesnt sound like an honest person. I guess what i am saying is...

His heart is always to do the right thing, but when he doesnt, he will lie. So, how do i get him to see that just because people see you make a mistake, doesnt mean you are a bad person, nor do you look like a bad person. You just look like a human being who made a mistake. You would actually earn some extra points for honesty about a mistake and you wouldnt risk being looked at as a liar. I feel like the only way to change him is for him to be caught in another lie. Maybe being caught is what will make him not want to be caught in a lie ever again. I am sure that kind of disappointment and embarrassment doesnt sit well with him either. Then maybe he would think twice about lying. 

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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Renee0414 said:


> I agree, and yes he does understand this. We do talk about this and he is trying. I have watched him actually tell the truth to people lately even when it was uncomfortable. One day he came home and told me that he went ahead and told the truth about something instead making up something. He does realize he needs to mature in this area. Im just wondering if i can do something to create a space that he feels like he "can" tell the truth to me.
> 
> He lies when he knows that the truth will enter into a lecture or argument that he doesnt feel is necessary. For instance, a common lie is when he has to run to a friends house after work to help him with something. In the past, like i mentioned earlier, i was furious that he went to help his friend instead of helping his wife with the baby when he knew i was struggling. But in his mind, he thought there was no way out of helping his friend or me, so he did both. So, to avoid the argument, he just comes home, says he just got off work, because icant get mad at that! Ugh! Except i wouldnt have been mad, because i dont need his help the way i did when we had a baby to take care of!... so now he is just in this habit of avoiding conflict.
> 
> ...


You truly love your husband, I see that and that is wonderful. Is he the type that can learn form reading? Would he consider counseling? He really needs to get to the root of why he is avoiding conflict. he has to learn to face adversity with honesty even if that requires for him to be uncomfortable in the truth of what he tells others. His dad may not want to accept his truth but that is not your husband's issue, in that case it is dad's issue. You see? Honesty is the key no matter how much it hurts at times and very important for him to face those situations head on.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Conflict avoiders are child-like in that they are afraid of upsetting people and they would rather lie than face consequences like someone being unhappy with them. When they grow up, they aren't lying about who took a cookie, or who forgot to put their glass in the dishwasher, they eventually lie about things that actually harm the marriage.
> 
> Both of you should stop lying about big and small things, or your marriage will be a very unhappy one, and may end up in divorce over a big lie, like an EA or a PA.
> 
> A marriage where either or both partners lies is not conducive to oneness, and will develop cracks that will eventually lead to greater issues that can end in divorce.


Well i disagree that lying will lead to affair. Ive lied about small things before (not to my husband) and that does not lead me to having an affair. Never have cheated in 12 years and never will. I obviously dont condone it or feel good about it, but yes i have lied before. I agree that a habitual liar will be likely to lie IF they ever have an affair. But just because you are a liar doesnt mean you are a cheater as well.... it does mean you will probably lie about the cheating, i get that. But i think if you arent a liar and you have an affair, you might lie about that even though you have never lied before... so i dont see the connection there... 
But i do agree with everything else you said 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Actually i take that back... i guess i have hid things from him. Like purchases that he told me not to make, but i felt that I really needed those things, and i felt he was just not listening to my needs, so i went ahead and bought it because i actually did need it. I wouldnt tell him i went ahead and bought it anyway because i knew he would be mad and he would probably bring it up every time we were broke... so that is basically a lie. And i do things like that occasionally. 

The difference is, i dont make a habit of it. And when i do hide things, I always regret it. 

Like the purchases, i actually wish i would have just talked to him about it again, and mutually agreed if it was a smart purchase or not. That definitely would have made me feel closer to him and better about myself for not going behind his back. I wonder if he regrets it like i do. And then obviously the other difference is i dont do it often, very rarely... Actually, im not going to say its different, because its not. He just finds himself in more situations he feels he needs to lie about than i do i guess. 

This is getting confusing. And now i dont know how i feel...

Maybe we both just need to work on not being afraid of conflict and feeling the rewards of being honest and working together to find a solution that makes us both happy when we have conflict instead of just lying by default because its easier that way. 

I think my answer is to work on HOW we handle conflict so that it is comfortable to talk about compromising. But at the same time work on building his confidence in facing disappointment or making someone unhappy. To realize that its not so bad to disappoint someone especially if you are completely honest about what happened. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> He needs therapy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree...and that would be so easy... Unfortunately there is no room for it in the budget. I actually need therapy (not marital) for my family issues going on. Loss of my mother to drugs (shes not dead but havent seen her in 2 years), a father with severe health issues(could die), and i think im heading towards depression because of all of that plus no support with 3 kids. My husband works too much to help, he helps when he is home but its not enough. My kids and I need grandparents the way all of my extended family and friends seem to have. They can just drop their kids off with grandma anytime they need. I have never had that. Im not saying im alone here, i am well aware a lot of people dont have any help either. But its hard to deal with when everyone around me has help and i dont. 

Anyway, if we could afford therepy, id be the first one in it! 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Okay, now we are getting somewhere here. He lies to his dad because he does not want to disappoint is dad. This tells me that your husband is not a very strong person. He does not have certainty about himself. Rather than using his own true-to-himself honesty in approaching issues he becomes the weasel that wants to please and make himself look good at the same time. He is afraid to disappoint but the truth of the matter is he is not looking at reality here. Once a lie is found out there becomes mistrust and if daddy finds out he will be disappointed. It is much better to tell the truth to daddy and to the boss and stand behind that truth than to get caught in that lie. Sometime the truth is not pleasant but if he is going to reach maturity and be true to himself this it is important to speak the truth and honor your feelings.


He isnt a very strong person emotionally. He is very weak. He also gets embarrassed very easy. He is the type that like, if we are at a restaurant and the baby starts crying he gets red(not anger but like shyness) and insists that we leave. He doesnt like embarrassing situations. He is very self conscious about things like that. 

I dont know, i guess he just has a thing about making people happy, not upsetting people, but also selfishly not wanting to deal with conflict or consequence when he feels justified in what he did. (Like the example i gave about going to help his friend first instead of coming home like i asked). 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Bobby5000 said:


> I think you have to try to instill some confidence in him and have him get over his fear of conflict. It may be better for him to tell the truth and let you get mad.
> 
> Part of this is your upbringing. If you had a parent who was supportive during problems, you learned it was better to get advice and tell the truth, while if you had parent who compounded problems during conflict, you learned to try to avoid conflict and hide information.


I love this and agree completely. But then this makes me think... wouldnt even an honest person lie given the right circumstance. Maybe that honest person has never actually been confronted with a situation that they knew the consequence was greater then they could handle. Maybe some people just have different degrees of what they can handle. Confidence is actually just another way of saying you dont care about how people feel about you because you know who you are regardless of how people feel. So maybe these things just make him feel like a bad person inside so he lies because he doesnt want to show that he is a bad person or make anyone think he is a bad person.

Maybe he just needs some reassurance that he is a good person, and even if he makes a mistake it doesnt change that, especially if he tells the truth about it. Its just so frustrating. Just tell the truth! and see that its not so bad. Maybe he did have some bad experiences as a child with telling the truth, who knows. 

I guess i just need to realize (like someone said above) that this is about him, and its not anything i can help him with. Just something that he needs to work on himself. With my encouragement, maybe he can find some confidence in accepting consequence. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You both lie. You even condone it in certain circumstances. It's ok if he lies to other people, but not to you.
> 
> What are going to do when all three of your children start to tell lies? It's not like you and your husband are great role models in that area.
> 
> Owning your stuff is part of growing up and maturing.


Understanding the psychology of "why" in my head is different then condoning. I have never told him that i understand or condone his lying. I acknowledge in any circumstance it is better to tell the truth, but i also acknowledge that some circumstances are far more difficult to be honest than others. Not that you shouldnt always tell the truth, just that it IS harder. 

Id appreciate you not bring our parenting skills into this, its a bit rude and non of your concern. My children are not a part of this discussion. However, its not like they actually witness any lying, that is something that is behind the scenes. So im not sure how our marital issues are effecting them unless we are arguing in front of them.... again, i dont condone it, i just understand why. Just as anything bad that happens we like to know why and how to avoid it. Doesnt mean we are condoning bad behaviour. We just like to know why. 

When my daughter smears mud all over my car, i realize its because it was fun and she didnt think it was a big deal, doesnt mean i tell her its okay! But it helps me to know that shes not a bad kid. She just made a mistake, and i will tell her that its not okay to smear mud on the car, then give her something she can smear mud on lol 


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There are some free or low cost options. Have you checked them out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You both lie. You even condone it in certain circumstances. It's ok if he lies to other people, but not to you.
> 
> What are going to do when all three of your children start to tell lies? It's not like you and your husband are great role models in that area.
> 
> Owning your stuff is part of growing up and maturing.


Also i never said it was okay for him to lie to others but not to me...i have no idea where you got that. I did say that it doesnt hurt me personally. That is something that he needs to deal with himself. That is something that i gave up on, realizing it was his problem. 

However, when he lies to me, that IS a problem that i need to address with him. Its non of my business if he lies to other people, thats his problem. That is all i said. I said nothing about it being okay if he lies to other people.

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> You truly love your husband, I see that and that is wonderful. Is he the type that can learn form reading? Would he consider counseling? He really needs to get to the root of why he is avoiding conflict. he has to learn to face adversity with honesty even if that requires for him to be uncomfortable in the truth of what he tells others. His dad may not want to accept his truth but that is not your husband's issue, in that case it is dad's issue. You see? Honesty is the key no matter how much it hurts at times and very important for him to face those situations head on.


He is not a reader, unfortunately. Maybe i could look into some audio books. Counseling is not in the budget, but yes he would go if we could afford it. I guess im lucky that he at least listens. I dont know how hard he is going to actually work at it, but at least he isnt in denial that he has a problem. I do love him very much. Our marriage isn't in trouble. It used to be when we were younger, but that was all because we were both immature and didnt even know what being married was all about. 

Im sure when i say my husband lies a lot you think he is probably no good. But, he really is one of the good guys. Leaving him over this is out of the question and will never be an option for me. There is way too many good things about him, this is just one thing, i agree its a big thing but it stands alone. I wouldn't trade him for anyone. I dont have much to complain about. Except that he lies, and is stubborn.... oh yeah and everyone calls him the king of procrastination, and that issue drives. Me. Insane. Lol other than that, everything else is great 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> There are some free or low cost options. Have you checked them out?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, i have looked into it for myself, over family issues(my parents). We dont have free, just cheaper. Its still not in the budget. I am a stay at home mom and he just started a business, so everything is tight right now. I hope in the future, with the new income we will have from the business, we will be able to do counseling. We will for sure be making it a priority when we can afford it. 

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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> Well the actual act of lying doesnt bother me if it is a "big thing". If i did something bad and i regretted it, of course i would probably lie about it. Its the actual act that is distressing, not the lying part. I mean 90%of people would lie to cover it up, unless they were ready to admit it and risk losing everything. As bad as that sounds, i understand lying about big things. Its kind of hard to tell someone you screwed up big time.
> 
> I am completely aware that he would lie about big things, but like i said i understand why you would lie about something big. Your afraid of losing that person over a mistake. Its understandable to lie about it. (Although commendable to tell the truth, obviously)
> 
> ...




There is nothing you can do. This is a learned behavior. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him and his irrational fear of conflict or fear of disappointing someone. 

Don't make excuses for him. Don't Enable him. He needs to learn that this Behavior is not normal. You can do this by always bringing it to his attention. Don't be mad, don't get upset. But always bring it to his attention and talk to him rationally how this is a problem. Because it is. It's impossible to feel close to someone who acts so secretively.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He sounds painfully self-conscious to me and is very uncomfortable when the spotlight is on him. Any sort of negative attention will do this and he would desperately want to avoid it. Perhaps he has developed coping mechanisms that are not the healthiest, like telling untruths in order to escape a judgment that would embarrass him badly.

If this is an issue with him, self-conscious people can overcome much of their issues by forcing themselves to deal with uncomfortable situations, like talking in front of a group or leading a group in some activity.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> He actually is different with certain people. He doesnt lie to his friends. Because he knows even if they dont approve they wont go into "lecture" or "argument" mode. He lies to his boss, to his dad and to people he doesnt want to disappoint .....and to me obviously.
> 
> I do believe it has become somewhat of a habit knee jerk reaction. He definitely doesnt like conflict or disappointment. Neither do i really though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk




My husband is the same way. He learned this as a child because his dad wanted things his way all the time and he wasn't allowed to be himself. He would get lectured at all the time. Even today my husband is 30 and his dad will lecture him and just talk at him. So my husband often lies to his parents and to me Bc he doesn't want to hear it. It's a really really selfish childish way to act. He is still in kid mode. He doesn't want to get "in trouble" so he lies. Problem is, he's a grown man. He needs to realize he's not in trouble and there is nothing wrong when people disagree. My husband has passive aggressive personality. 

It sounds like you are really down playing the issues.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

And I wanted to add... This is manipulative behavior as well. With my husband he acts one way with his parents and tells these weird lies, and he acts one way to me and tells me these weird lies. My husband is a people pleaser and just wants everyone to be happy. That's not reality. From the outside my husband looks like the nicest guy in the world and everyone tells me how nice he is! The reality is, he doesn't have a concept of who he really is and what he really believes In because he was never allowed to be himself as a child. He was lectured constantly from a strict religious dad, and he learned how to shut his mouth, tune his dad out, and wait until the lecture was over, then he continued to do whatever he wanted to do, and continued to lie about it. This is what causes passive aggressive personality. Some people have very mild issues with it, some people have major issues with it.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

My H is like this too. MC said it develops in childhood- which I never understood until my sister in law said that he grew up in a physically abusive home. I had no idea. He talks about his childhood like it was ideal. MC says it is unlikely to change -and to read "co-dependent no more" if you are intending on staying in the marriage. I am. He is a wonderful father, husband, son, friend,…..you get the idea. Everyone loves him. Of course they do. He never says no, he never disagrees with them, he helps and does good everywhere he goes. 

Here is the problem. When I was concerned about him becoming close to a co-worker- he lied (presumably to avoid confrontation) about going to her house to help her with a construction issue. He then lied about talking to her on the phone and whether or not her boyfriend was there when he went for a beer with her, and whether or not he deleted her texts that I might find excessive….These are all red flags for an A. I interpreted them as such. This led to 2 years of accusations, heartache and grief.

I really don't know what the truth is. I do know he is capable of lying about it to avoid confrontation even if there was NOTHING going on. Every lie he told could be attributed to an EA/PA cover up- or provide further evidence that he is a situational liar.

I love him. I know he loves me. We have been together for 37 years. He went to MC, IC, church support groups, filled out countless relationship workbooks and attended an intensive weekend marital workshop. All of these things would not have been easy for him to do. He tells me and more importantly shows me he loves me every day- and I believe him- NOW. 

I cannot take back those wasted months of emotional anguish. I will never know with any kind of surety what happened. I can however make a decision that the pros far outweigh the cons in this marriage. I can decide to move forward no matter what went on. I can decide to believe what I think to be true (he had an EA during a vulnerable time in our marriage) and be satisfied with that. This would not be in everyones best interests- but I believe it is for me. This conclusion has come at a great emotion cost. It is not a decision I take lightly and it is not without its trials and tribulations.

So…..word to the wise…..when it REALLY matters that he is honest with you- you just won't know if he is...


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

nursejackie said:


> My H is like this too. MC said it develops in childhood- which I never understood until my sister in law said that he grew up in a physically abusive home. I had no idea. He talks about his childhood like it was ideal. MC says it is unlikely to change -and to read "co-dependent no more" if you are intending on staying in the marriage. I am. He is a wonderful father, husband, son, friend,…..you get the idea. Everyone loves him. Of course they do. He never says no, he never disagrees with them, he helps and does good everywhere he goes.
> 
> Here is the problem. When I was concerned about him becoming close to a co-worker- he lied (presumably to avoid confrontation) about going to her house to help her with a construction issue. He then lied about talking to her on the phone and whether or not her boyfriend was there when he went for a beer with her, and whether or not he deleted her texts that I might find excessive….These are all red flags for an A. I interpreted them as such. This led to 2 years of accusations, heartache and grief.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you. This is my real issue with the constant avoiding of confrontation, because when i question him about something serious i am not going to be able to believe him! 

And yes, his father lectures him ALOT we are almost 30 and he is still treating him like a child. He thinks he needs to make sure he does simple things like renew his insurance, or make sure he paid a fine. If his dad finds out he didnt get to something he will go into a whole lecture about how he needs to get it taken care of. Im thinking, dude, this is my husband, i can take over from here! 

So maybe thats where it comes from. Years of learning how to get around conflict. 

No, i will not be leaving him over this. This is not even a very big issue, i am just getting really sick and tired of trying to convince him that its okay to tell the truth, and that it makes me feel like we arent close. I am sure it could very easily snowball into a very serious situation pretty quickly... but, i dont see this issue out weighing all of the good we have. He is everything i need and more. Great emotional connection, we talk about everything together, we laugh and play, share hobbies, very fulfilling sex life, he loves my family and my family loves him. Perhaps that is why it hurts me so bad that he feels he needs to lie to me. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> And I wanted to add... This is manipulative behavior as well. With my husband he acts one way with his parents and tells these weird lies, and he acts one way to me and tells me these weird lies. My husband is a people pleaser and just wants everyone to be happy. That's not reality. From the outside my husband looks like the nicest guy in the world and everyone tells me how nice he is! The reality is, he doesn't have a concept of who he really is and what he really believes In because he was never allowed to be himself as a child. He was lectured constantly from a strict religious dad, and he learned how to shut his mouth, tune his dad out, and wait until the lecture was over, then he continued to do whatever he wanted to do, and continued to lie about it. This is what causes passive aggressive personality. Some people have very mild issues with it, some people have major issues with it.


What i said to jackie ...^^ sorry i responded to the wrong person with half of what i said haha 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> He sounds painfully self-conscious to me and is very uncomfortable when the spotlight is on him. Any sort of negative attention will do this and he would desperately want to avoid it. Perhaps he has developed coping mechanisms that are not the healthiest, like telling untruths in order to escape a judgment that would embarrass him badly.
> 
> If this is an issue with him, self-conscious people can overcome much of their issues by forcing themselves to deal with uncomfortable situations, like talking in front of a group or leading a group in some activity.


Yes this is him... he absolutely hates to be embarrassed. 
I do think he is trying to put himself in those situations on purpose now. He isnt doing it enough. But at least i got him thinking about it

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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

@nursejackie I really appreciate your post


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> There is nothing you can do. This is a learned behavior. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him and his irrational fear of conflict or fear of disappointing someone.
> 
> Don't make excuses for him. Don't Enable him. He needs to learn that this Behavior is not normal. You can do this by always bringing it to his attention. Don't be mad, don't get upset. But always bring it to his attention and talk to him rationally how this is a problem. Because it is. It's impossible to feel close to someone who acts so secretively.


Thanks for your advice. I wont be making excuses for him. And to be clear, i never have. I have only acknowledged in my own head why he does what he does. I will try to lovingly point out each time he slips up. Maybe after a while of me pointing out how often he does it he can start to realize how bad this habit has gotten. 

Maybe standing up to people who respond harshly (even me) will give him the confidence he needs to always tell the truth?! First person he needs to stand up to is his dad though i think. Maybe if my husband realizes that he isnt a kid anymore and he cant be controlled by anyone telling him what he can and cant do (even me) he will realize he doesnt need to lie. He just needs to be true to himself and be honest about his actions even if someone isnt happy about it. And unlike being a child and being powerless, as an adult, if someone disagrees with you you can simply say "thats fine if your not happy with me i am still going to do what i feel i need to do"

Like when he wanted to go help his friend instead of come home first he could have responded to my anger by saying "you are being unreasonable right now, and even though i want to help you, i feel i need to go help my friend really quick and then come and help you. Im sorry honey, but this is what im doing, please understand."

Or he could have responded to his father by saying "dad i realize you want to make sure i am being an adult, but its really none of your business anymore and i can assure you i will take care of things just as soon as i have the time, i really dont need you lecturing me and stressing me out." 
Maybe saying these things will make him feel in control and more able to tell the truth even if he knows it will be met with conflict

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

To me, you should control what YOU can control - your own actions. IIWY, I would set up a boundary about being lied to, and a resulting consequence. You may even have to get really BASIC about it. Like my H is passive aggressive or blows up at me sometimes, and he knows I hate it, and he knows when he does it and hurts me, I don't want to have sex with him. So each time he does it, guess what? We don't have sex for the next 3 or 4 days. It's not me throwing a fit, not guilting him, just me not feeling like being close to him.

It's his choice, he knows what's going to happen if he blows up at me, and if he then chooses to do it anyway, well, that's on him.

IIWY, I'd make it clear to him you're not going to try to change him. But you will protect yourself from it by _________ (choose a reaction) each time he's caught in a lie. No discussion, no guilting, just you reacting. And then go about your business. But then you have to follow through on the reaction/consequence. 

And if he gets in your face about it, you just shrug and say "I told you what would happen if you lie to me. Your choice" and walk away.

THAT is how people learn to change.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> Ok, so my husband and I are 26 years old. Been together for 12 years. Have 3 children.
> My husband is an amazing man. Very kind, hardworking, handsome, great father. We have definitely had our problems, as any relationship does. I have noticed over the years he has this really bad habit of lying. Like, about stupid stuff that doesn't make sense. I am not talking about just lying to me. He lies a lot to avoid confrontation. About really dumb stuff.
> Now, I can relate. Somewhat. Sometimes I lie in awkward situations. someone asks if I will babysit and instead of saying "no i really hate babysitting" I will say "I have a thing that day" haha. He does this type of stuff all day everyday. He has gotten caught in lies several times. It makes me kind of afraid who is going to catch him in a lie next lol.
> 
> ...



Are you being completely upfront about you often you get angry/yell at him for things. He's lying because he doesn't trust you. He does not believe that he can be honest with you when it comes to him doing what he wants. He lied about the lunch break because you probably expect him to come home for lunch everyday and he either a) didn't want to disappoint you or b) thought that you would get pissed off at him because he didn't come home and got rims instead. He made the decision that lying was a better alternative than a potential argument with you. It's messed up and is not good for a relationship but the lying is a symptom of deeper issuers in your relationship. It's about trust. He doesn't trust you and because of his lies you don't trust him.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> Thanks for your advice. I wont be making excuses for him. And to be clear, i never have. I have only acknowledged in my own head why he does what he does. I will try to lovingly point out each time he slips up. Maybe after a while of me pointing out how often he does it he can start to realize how bad this habit has gotten.
> 
> Maybe standing up to people who respond harshly (even me) will give him the confidence he needs to always tell the truth?! First person he needs to stand up to is his dad though i think. Maybe if my husband realizes that he isnt a kid anymore and he cant be controlled by anyone telling him what he can and cant do (even me) he will realize he doesnt need to lie. He just needs to be true to himself and be honest about his actions even if someone isnt happy about it. And unlike being a child and being powerless, as an adult, if someone disagrees with you you can simply say "thats fine if your not happy with me i am still going to do what i feel i need to do"
> 
> ...


Nobody talks like that. That's something a therapist would come up with. You just hit the nail right on the head. You just talked about you being unreasonable. Why are you getting angry at him for not coming home first? He's and adult. Nobody wants to feel like they can't do what they want to do without having to come back and get the third degree. I'm not saying your husband is right but I want you to think about something. Your husband so dislikes dealing with confrontations with you regarding things he wants to do for himself that he would rather lie to you than tell you the truth. That's pretty messed up if you think about it.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> Nobody talks like that. That's something a therapist would come up with. You just hit the nail right on the head. You just talked about you being unreasonable. Why are you getting angry at him for not coming home first? He's and adult. Nobody wants to feel like they can't do what they want to do without having to come back and get the third degree. I'm not saying your husband is right but I want you to think about something. Your husband so dislikes dealing with confrontations with you regarding things he wants to do for himself that he would rather lie to you than tell you the truth. That's pretty messed up if you think about it.


I already explained somewhere in the thread that it was because i was having a difficult day with the baby. I have no support from family. No parents that help me. So that burden falls on my husband sometimes. No im not usually unreasonable. While the kids have been young yes, i have over reacted in situations that i was under tremendous stress. But thank you for your view point. I do acknowledge it is because of past over reactions. However i do not do it often! And when i do i ALWAYS apologize and tell him i could have handled it differently and that i was just too stressed out about other things to think clearly. 
And no, i do not expect him to come home at lunch. It is just what he does. He comes home to eat lunch and he enjoys playing with the kids. He doesnt always come home from lunch, but even when he doesnt come home he always calls and talks to me (not because i expect it but because he likes to) truth be told sometimes i wish he wouldnt call. Its really difficult to talk on the phone with 3 kids running around. The reason he lied about that was because of the fact he bought rims when it wasnt in the budget, not because i would have been mad he didnt come home for lunch. That indeed would have been ridiculous of me! I admit budget discussions have been a conflict several times. It is hard not to get angry when he makes bad spending decisions when your groceries or utility bills are at stake. As i stated above we cant even afford cheap counselling. I dont think i am unreasonable about the budget... neither of us are in control of it.. we BOTH sit down and agree on a budget, giving me money to spend on what i want, and him money to spend. We both agree, he seems satisfied with it, no compaints and then he goes and blows the budget because he HAD to have something right then. It then effects our groceries or utility money for that month. So, its hard for me to not get upset about that. But that is actually a pretty old conflict that i have since agreed to be understanding about the things he wants to buy. We have increased his spending money and i do realize that he never lets us go hungry. If he over spends he always finds a way to pay the bills anyway. It was just, when he first started increasing his spending, it scared me to think our bills werent going to get paid or we wouldnt have enough money for food. But i admit he always manages to pay for it all. So that is why when he lied about buying rims it was frustrating that we are still there... he still doesnt trust my reaction. I mean it has been forever since i have over reacted

I do agree that he lies because he doesnt trust my reaction, as i said in my original post...i know this is the problem, and yes i have over reacted. This isnt who i really am though, like i said i have only over reacted when i was dealing with the most stressful times in my life. I dont feel like i have done it enough it would cause him to forever be afraid of me. This is what breaks my heart.. that he feels this way about me. It makes me feel like he doesnt see me as a "friend" anymore. This is very important to me. This is why i ask...how do i get him to trust me with the truth again...the way it used to be, before all of the stress of kids and money.

It frustrates me that you are right. I know that it is partly my fault for over reacting in the past. But it was in the past and i don't understand how i can show him that those were one time situations and he doesn't have to be afraid of how i will react. I am a reasonable person, and especially because as I've matured i have realized how much i enjoy being selfless and making sure his needs are met first. I have realized that yes, i might be stressed and needing help but guess what he is stressed too and if he is able to spend a few minutes at a friends house then i am happy for him and then he comes home more relaxed and more able to help me with the kids. And that makes me feel good that I was able to help him relax and feel better.

Imo i don't feel like i have over reacted enough times to warrant this fear he has. And i honestly don't understand it. He acts like my best friend all other times. If you watched us all day you wouldn't think we have ever had issues, thats why it catches me off gaurd when he lies about stuff. It makes me realize that he didn't accept my apologies and still harbors feelings about it... i feel like deep down he thinks im a horrible wife that will over react about things.

Yes i know people dont talk like that in reality, he would probably say something more like "sorry your struggling today but i cant just cancel helping my friend!" my point being maybe if he would stand up to the person instead of giving in and doing something he didnt want to do (like coming home instead of helping his friend) he would be more willing to tell the truth. Maybe if he would have stood up to me i would have realized how unreasonable my reaction was and i would have calmed down and been more understanding. Idk i was pretty sleep deprived and overwhelmed so probably not in that particular circumstance but i am sure he would still have felt some control just by telling me off. I know if he stood up to his dad and told him to back the f off and mind his own damn business he would feel more confident about saying things like "no dad i didnt pay my insurance yet, whats it to you?" Wouldnt this make him feel more confident about getting into conflicts if he felt he could "win"

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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> Are you being completely upfront about you often you get angry/yell at him for things. He's lying because he doesn't trust you. He does not believe that he can be honest with you when it comes to him doing what he wants. He lied about the lunch break because you probably expect him to come home for lunch everyday and he either a) didn't want to disappoint you or b) thought that you would get pissed off at him because he didn't come home and got rims instead. He made the decision that lying was a better alternative than a potential argument with you. It's messed up and is not good for a relationship but the lying is a symptom of deeper issuers in your relationship. It's about trust. He doesn't trust you and because of his lies you don't trust him.




This is way more of a complex issue than your making it out to be. It is not her fault at all. She is allowed to get upset and show emotion she is a human. Life can get hard and overwhelming sometimes. What your saying is she is not allowed to get upset. Really? When your spouse is upset it should be a reaction to comfort and support them and help them, not to lie to them. 

This issue is about him not wanting to be put in a situation that is uncomfortable to him which includes conflict, so instead of dealing with the problem he does what he has to do to avoid it, like lying. This is not a trust issue at all. This has nothing to do with her. I bet he loves and adores her, and I bet it kills him to disappoint her. This is a problem he has within himself.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I see myself in these posts. My reactions to H have been excessive and over the top at times particularly in our younger days. I'm sure that didn't help matters. Drifting On gave some excellent advice to me about working towards allowing each other to be vulnerable, never discussing things when we are angry, writing down potential high conflict discussions and responding in writing to each other. Try to build a relationship where we both feel safe and secure enough to show that vulnerability. It is not an easy thing to do -although we managed to with support in the marriage workshop and occasionally since then.

MC said it has to do with really listening well enough to repeat what we hear the other saying (instead of thinking about what we want to say next) and expressing how we interpret the others actions- " I feel upset...when you are late home from work and don't call….the story I tell myself when this happens is that you are with someone else and they mean more to you…"

FWIW  I hope it helps.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> I do agree that he lies because he doesnt trust my reaction, as i said in my original post...i know this is the problem, and yes i have over reacted. This isnt who i really am though, like i said i have only over reacted when i was dealing with the most stressful times in my life. I dont feel like i have done it enough it would cause him to forever be afraid of me. This is what breaks my heart.. that he feels this way about me. It makes me feel like he doesnt see me as a "friend" anymore. This is very important to me. This is why i ask...how do i get him to trust me with the truth again...the way it used to be, before all of the stress of kids and money.


 First off yea you probably have contributed to this but ultimately it's his fault for not being able to stand up to you and tell you the truth. Second, I see what you are saying but do you think he would describe you the same way you just described yourself. A lot of times we don't see ourselves the way others do. I'm not in your husbands head but from the looks of it he sees you as someone he has to be afraid of. And you are right, that kind of dynamic makes it more difficult to have a solid friendship. Hopefully he doesn't have the mindset that he just needs to make it through the day without pissing you off. As far as getting him to trust you with the truth I would recommend two things. First, I'd tell him that when you married him you did so because of his strength and integrity and when he lies to you it hurts because you know that he is better than that. Second, and this is important. Acknowledge mistakes you have made in the past and say that he can come to you with the truth and be able to do it freely without unnecessary drama. This doesn't mean that he gets a free pass to do what he wants but it does mean that he should feel that he can come to you and be honest without judgment or anger most of the time. Also, don't compare yourself with his father. That is a COMPLETELY different dynamic. You are not comparing apples to apples.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> And I wanted to add... This is manipulative behavior as well. With my husband he acts one way with his parents and tells these weird lies, and he acts one way to me and tells me these weird lies. My husband is a people pleaser and just wants everyone to be happy. That's not reality. From the outside my husband looks like the nicest guy in the world and everyone tells me how nice he is! The reality is, he doesn't have a concept of who he really is and what he really believes In because he was never allowed to be himself as a child. He was lectured constantly from a strict religious dad, and he learned how to shut his mouth, tune his dad out, and wait until the lecture was over, then he continued to do whatever he wanted to do, and continued to lie about it. This is what causes passive aggressive personality. Some people have very mild issues with it, some people have major issues with it.


Perfectly said and not an easy behavior to change as his coping mechanisms have been used since childhood. Look up "conflict avoidant personality." That lying and trying to please person can very easily hide the truth from a spouse and their choices of behavior might not always be good for a marriage. If they choose to hide it and lie about it, good luck getting the truth out of them.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

This thread made me ask my husband more questions about his PA behavior. (Which he doesn't believe he has). He thinks he just doesn't like conflict and that's not a big deal because no one likes conflict. Of course this is him down playing the issue. But when I asked him why he doesn't like conflict, like how does he feel when there is conflict? He couldn't explain it to me. Then he said... "I absolutely hate making someone feel disappointed." So then I asked him, do you not like conflict because of how it makes you feel or is it how you think others feel about you? He just couldn't answer it. My husband likes to keep things light and not talk a it these things that I obviously think are so important. 

I'm happy for this forum because I am learning more and more, about marriage, myself and my husband. My husband is not a talker, so I have no idea what he is thinking or feeling.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Perfectly said and not an easy behavior to change as his coping mechanisms have been used since childhood. Look up "conflict avoidant personality." That lying and trying to please person can very easily hide the truth from a spouse and their choices of behavior might not always be good for a marriage. If they choose to hide it and lie about it, good luck getting the truth out of them.




It's horrible for the marriage. Especially when I start talking to his mother and we compare stories. Then it's like... Who the heck did I marry? He doesn't have concept of self. He told me that he will act differently around his parents Bc that's just the way it is Bc they are old fashion and blah blah blah. It's just so frustrating Bc he can't just be himself. And i don't know if he even knows who he is.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

I agree with niceguy, that i have caused that by over reacting...but i also agree with AVR that i cant help but over react sometimes, i am human. So, it IS his fault for not hearing my apologies and forgiving me for mistakes i make. I shouldnt have to lose my best friend because he cant handle a few stressed out moments from me. Like someone said above i cant just not over react for the rest of my life. I am going to make more mistakes (he over reacts occasionally too and i dont hold it against how i feel about it) all i can do is try my hardest to not let stress make me treat him any less than he deserves. He deserves understanding and an environment that he can compromise with me when our needs dont align. I think he just feels like he cant win, so he doesnt risk the conflict. Which again, breaks my heart. 

I keep telling him that we can talk about conflict and agree on a solution together. Even if it means he wins, i am going to listen to his side of things and be open to the possibility of him getting his way. Or we can try to find a compromise. I just dont think he believes it yet. 

Niceguy, you could be right. Maybe i dont realize i do it more than what i feel like i do. Or at least, maybe i feel like it isnt enough times, but to him it is. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> This is way more of a complex issue than your making it out to be. It is not her fault at all. She is allowed to get upset and show emotion she is a human. Life can get hard and overwhelming sometimes. What your saying is she is not allowed to get upset. Really? When your spouse is upset it should be a reaction to comfort and support them and help them, not to lie to them.
> 
> This issue is about him not wanting to be put in a situation that is uncomfortable to him which includes conflict, so instead of dealing with the problem he does what he has to do to avoid it, like lying. This is not a trust issue at all. This has nothing to do with her. I bet he loves and adores her, and I bet it kills him to disappoint her. This is a problem he has within himself.


Thanks for this. This makes me realize that my over reacting is normal and human. Even the best marriage will have weak moments where they dont respond the way they should have. After all, he has over reacted to me too. I still see him as my best friend and i dont fear conflicts with him because of it. 

This is HIS problem. He does adore me. I feel like in his mind, if we have a conflict it somehow ruins our friendship. But the reality is, lying about it is what is ruining the friendship. I know i can always improve MY response to his issues but he will have to change his issues on his own. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> First off yea you probably have contributed to this but ultimately it's his fault for not being able to stand up to you and tell you the truth. Second, I see what you are saying but do you think he would describe you the same way you just described yourself. A lot of times we don't see ourselves the way others do. I'm not in your husbands head but from the looks of it he sees you as someone he has to be afraid of. And you are right, that kind of dynamic makes it more difficult to have a solid friendship. Hopefully he doesn't have the mindset that he just needs to make it through the day without pissing you off. As far as getting him to trust you with the truth I would recommend two things. First, I'd tell him that when you married him you did so because of his strength and integrity and when he lies to you it hurts because you know that he is better than that. Second, and this is important. Acknowledge mistakes you have made in the past and say that he can come to you with the truth and be able to do it freely without unnecessary drama. This doesn't mean that he gets a free pass to do what he wants but it does mean that he should feel that he can come to you and be honest without judgment or anger most of the time. Also, don't compare yourself with his father. That is a COMPLETELY different dynamic. You are not comparing apples to apples.


Yes i have told him that he can come to me with the truth, even though i have over reacted in the past, i regret it, and that is not how i will react all of the time. I want to react with understanding and open ears, he is allowed to win and we can try to find a compromise that makes us both happy. At this point its up to him to believe me, and its up to me to prove it. But also, i think he still needs to learn to deal with negative reacts from other people and choose to face it instead of avoiding it. Because i will react negatively again someday, im only human. So, he needs to realize that he still needs to face it instead of run from it. He will need to stand up for himself if someone is wrongfully negative to him and he will have to face disappointment and ask for forgiveness if he is in the wrong about something. 

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If he adores you, then tell him you simply continue as is without the two of you going to therapy to learn a healthier way to deal with it. Tell him it's for you, so he doesn't think he's getting singled out. Of course once the therapist sees what he's doing, she'll hopefully start subtly getting him to open up about how he feels (i.e. his fears that date back to his childhood), so you can get to the root of it and start a new pattern for him.

This isn't something you can change on your own.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

turnera said:


> If he adores you, then tell him you simply continue as is without the two of you going to therapy to learn a healthier way to deal with it. Tell him it's for you, so he doesn't think he's getting singled out. Of course once the therapist sees what he's doing, she'll hopefully start subtly getting him to open up about how he feels (i.e. his fears that date back to his childhood), so you can get to the root of it and start a new pattern for him.
> 
> This isn't something you can change on your own.


I agree, but it is something i have to try to help him with until we can afford to get counselling. Its not in the budget right now. And he said he wants to go. So, I know he isnt a lost cause. I guess its more about breaking the habit, and not being afraid of uncomfortable situations, conflict or embarrassment.

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you in the US?


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Everyone is different. Some people don't care what their spouse thinks and just tells the truth about every little thing. Whereas others, rather lie about things to avoid the possibility of the conflict.

I am on board with the conflict avoiders'. I don't believe in the 'little lies turn into big lies, eventually' ordeal because cheating, hiding assets, or going to Vegas for a week rather than a 'made up' work function is in itself a WHOLE OTHER monster. A lot of people who lie about little things still have a conscious when it comes to royally trying to screw over a loved one. 

He is avoiding conflict. He works all day and wants to see his buddy quickly after work for a few minutes and instead of telling you that and potentially ruining his night over it, he tells you he is staying a little later and it's a double-win. He sees his buddy AND avoids a potential fight - at least in his mind. But he needs to quit it if your not okay with it. How he does? That is up to him. If he has lived his whole life this way, it will take time to adjust. However, right now, in his mind, rather than potentially fighting over every issue, he tells you what you want to hear. That's how he sees it. 

There could always be someone else, however, as I don't know him, so don't automatically assume he isn't up to any good unless you know for sure. I know I am backtracking somewhat on what I said earlier, But that comes with any situation when a spouse says "Ill be home late tonight." You can't ever ignore that if it continues.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

turnera said:


> Are you in the US?


Yes im in US

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

wise said:


> Everyone is different. Some people don't care what their spouse thinks and just tells the truth about every little thing. Whereas others, rather lie about things to avoid the possibility of the conflict.
> 
> I am on board with the conflict avoiders'. I don't believe in the 'little lies turn into big lies, eventually' ordeal because cheating, hiding assets, or going to Vegas for a week rather than a 'made up' work function is in itself a WHOLE OTHER monster. A lot of people who lie about little things still have a conscious when it comes to royally trying to screw over a loved one.
> 
> ...


See...i really feel the same way as you. Telling lies to avoid conflict doesnt mean he is morally corrupt in all ways. I dont question whether or not he is cheating on me. I know for a fact he was at his friends. They slip up later. (His best friend was actually my best friend first and he would never lie to me to cover up for my husband) His friend will say something like "are you coming back over to help me finish that motor" or something like that that gives it away that he was there. None of these situations i ever think he is cheating. But of course if there was ever a situation like that, i know he would lie about it. 

Even an honest man would lie about cheating IMO.... its a rare person that will come home and say honey i slept with someone else today, i guess ill start packing. His lying doesnt make him a cheater, or a thief or a horrible person in my eyes. Just something i wish he would stop doing to me. It just makes me feel like he fears me and doesnt trust my reaction. 

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Renee0414 said:


> Yes im in US
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


Well, then, make use of the hundreds of agencies around the country that will provide you therapy on a sliding scale, maybe even for free, depending on your circumstances.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> It's horrible for the marriage. Especially when I start talking to his mother and we compare stories. Then it's like... Who the heck did I marry? He doesn't have concept of self. He told me that he will act differently around his parents Bc that's just the way it is Bc they are old fashion and blah blah blah. It's just so frustrating Bc he can't just be himself. And i don't know if he even knows who he is.


Will he consider counseling?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Will he consider counseling?




Not now. He's way to busy and sleep deprived.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I meant for you. You can't change him, only you. Let a professional show you how to make things better.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Renee-

Have you looked into groups like Celebrate Recovery. They deal with all kinds hurts, habits, and hang-ups. 

I am very triggered by your story (my ex is a compulsive liar). I hope that the lies remain benign...but even over time that can take a toll. So you need to find ways to stay emotionally healthy in the constructs of your relationship...

It will be very difficult to go this alone...

Hugs to you.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

turnera said:


> Well, then, make use of the hundreds of agencies around the country that will provide you therapy on a sliding scale, maybe even for free, depending on your circumstances.


Ive already mentioned a few times that i have looked into it. We technically make too much for free, but with the new business every dime is going back into the business right now, and barely getting bills and groceries paid. I looked into it about 2 years ago for myself. After going through hard times with my parents. Nothing available for me. The cheapest in my town is still not in the budget. But the good news is, it wont be long before we can afford it. Probably by the end of the year. And he does want to go 

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