# Sex / Emotional Connection For Men



## EllisRedding

I came across this article on my news feed (which I actually think is an older article we have possibly talked about on TAM already, but looks like the article was updated). The article was about the Top 12 Things Women Do to Destroy Their Marriage (calm down ladies, there is corresponding article about what men do as damage  ). One of the items the author listed was:



> 5. Withholding Affection and Sex
> This can cause a huge rift in your marriage, whether you realize it or not. Men are wired differently than women. Your husband needs physical release through sexual intimacy. It is not just something he is demanding of you; it is something he needs, physiologically speaking.
> 
> When you refuse to meet his need for physical release, you are making a much deeper statement; you do not care about or respect his needs. This is not about whether you like or dislike sex. It is much more important than that. Your spouse needs to connect with you on a physical level, whether you are in the mood or not.
> 
> As much as you need emotional release and closeness, he is wired to need physical release and closeness. Neither is wrong. You are just different. While you want your emotional needs met, it is important not to lose sight of his needs. Think of it this way; what if he stopped talking to you for three days? How about a week? What if he didn't talk to you for an entire month? Unconscionable, right? Likewise, it is unfair for you to cut him off from what he needs. You are in a relationship with a man you love, and you expect your needs to be met. In the same way, you need to meet his needs, regardless of whether you share the same needs and desires.


This idea of how men view sex in a relationship is something I have brought up in the past as well as others ( @Buddy400 etc...). So my question to the guys of TAM, do you agree with the assessment that the physical aspect of your relationship is needed/critical in order to maintain a closeness/connection with your SO? I have seen some women argue that this is a bunch of fooey. Guys are just a bunch of hornballs who will stick their trouser monster into anything with a hole. If he really needs a release he can go grab some lube and a tisue. Apparently the idea is that men are unable to differentiate between for example having a one night stand with a stranger and having sex with a loved on. It is almost as for a guy, sex with a loved one is something to be rewarded for doing a good act, but can then be withdrawn at any time.

Now keep in mind, I don't think the author above (who is a female) is advocating that a female needs to make herself available 24/7 for whenever the guy calls on her. The key here is that men are wired differently in their needs (and really the point of this thread, do the men here agree with the author's assessment?). Where a female may need an emotional closeness first, the male may require physical closeness first. No one should have priority over the other, but should hopefully be working together to meet each others needs.

https://pairedlife.com/problems/Top-10-Things-Women-Do-To-Destroy-Their-Marriage


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## notmyrealname4

Do men need physical "closeness", or do they need physical release?

I mean isn't that why porn is so popular? Super novel and exciting; easy release without much effort?

Ditto on "emotional connection". If men needed an emotional connection from sex; porn would go out of business. Or, do men bond emotionally with porn in some way? I guess that might be possible.


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## Faithful Wife

This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.

For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive). 

It really is confusing.

Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me. 

Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.

It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.


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## badsanta

I think this article completely glosses over female issues with low self esteem and feeling used in marriage as just an object for sexual release. Women in this situation perhaps withhold sex when they are angry with a spouse as some sort of test, because "no way would he want to be with me when there is no emotional connection." Then this creates a self fulfilling prophecy of doom because the husbands desire for sex builds parallel to the wife's anger of feeling used. At this point when sex finally occurs the wife most likely not respond sexually and she will react negatively to her husbands ease of climax, thus essentially proving her point that she is not loved. 

It is all a manifestation of low self esteem and how some women refuse to accept being loved. That destroys the marriage. Tell this women she is desirable and she will believe it is just a lie and form of manipulation just to be used further for sex. 

Men are also just as guilty in this situation for missing the emotional connection with a spouse so that it is understood that there is a struggle with low self esteem. Once that is realized the husband needs to try and nurture that and make sure his wife feels confident about herself in the marriage. Otherwise she likely has no sense of security in the relationship whatsoever if she honestly feels that she can just be replaced by a bottle of lube and pretty much anything that moves.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do men need physical "closeness", or do they need physical release?
> 
> I mean isn't that why porn is so popular? Super novel and exciting; easy release without much effort?
> 
> Ditto on "emotional connection". If men needed an emotional connection from sex; porn would go out of business. Or, do men bond emotionally with porn in some way? I guess that might be possible.


I do agree the distinction between physical release and closeness. In my case, it is the physical closeness that I desire, not the release per se.


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## SentHereForAReason

Good Stuff. Even though I tried the 'Love Languages, His Needs/Her Needs' routes of trying to save my marriage and just about everything else, I now understand 2 things along with many other lessons learned on my path through the ending of my marriage to post-divorce. 

Realized

1. No matter what I did, that marriage wasn't going to get 'saved', I was in a losing situation from the onset of the affair, just took me a really long time to realize it. So me playing the pick me dance and going all in with whatever Save the Marriage Book. Seminar, plan I tried ... I might as well have been dealing with a wall in my house.

2. Having said that, I think the books and just about everything else I tried gave me some good insights and I still value what I read because I think in a real relationship where two people are committed, trusting and offer themselves to one another, books like the 5 Love Languages are super helpful for me to understand what my partner needs, how she ticks and to focus the energy I always had and wanted to give but to give it in the best way that makes them happy and really to understand more how I tick myself.


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## notmyrealname4

EllisRedding said:


> I do agree the distinction between physical release and closeness. *In my case, it is the physical closeness that I desire, not the release per se.*



So, if you were able to have sex, but not have an orgasm; you would be okay with that??


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## badsanta

I'll add to this thread something I find funny. Imagine a hypothetical situation between two male best friends. Person A) just experienced his mom pass away last week. Person B) just went through an ugly divorce. These two men go hunting and spend two days together. 

What do they talk about? Hunting!

Did they share their life struggles and get all emotional? No!

Did each man have a good time with a sincere friend? Yes, and it was really needed and helpful!


A woman might look at that and feel like the friendship is something out of the twilight zone or something in that these two friends could not actually talk to each other about their emotional issues and struggles. She might even say, "you mean to tell me for those two days that the two of you spoke about NOTHING!" The husband might reply that they talked a lot about hunting, had a great time, and that it was needed and meaningful time with a close friend. 

Why is this? Why is it when male friends get together there are no deep emotional conversations compared to the conversations that women share among their female friends? 

When something bad happens to a guy, we pick ourselves up and move on with our lives. We choose friends that will help pick us back up and get us back going. A hunting trip is about reconnecting with one's primal self and nature, hiking away from the past, and moving forwards towards tomorrow. Instead of rehashing irreconcilable problems and emotions, two male friends will enjoy looking forwards to sharing a great meal tomorrow that they helped each other capture through friendship. A lot happened there! Nothing needed to be said!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> EllisRedding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do agree the distinction between physical release and closeness. *In my case, it is the physical closeness that I desire, not the release per se.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, if you were able to have sex, but not have an orgasm; you would be okay with that??
Click to expand...

That might cut my desire a little, but no, it wouldn't stop me from wanting sex and the closeness. I would hopefully still be able to get a release separately if needed.


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## notmyrealname4

badsanta said:


> I'll add to this thread something I find funny. Imagine a hypothetical situation between two male best friends. Person A) just experienced his mom pass away last week. Person B) just went through an ugly divorce. These two men go hunting and spend two days together.
> 
> What do they talk about? Hunting!
> 
> Did they share their life struggles and get all emotional? No!
> 
> Did each man have a good time with a sincere friend? Yes, and it was really needed and helpful!
> 
> 
> A woman might look at that and feel like the friendship is something out of the twilight zone or something in that these two friends could not actually talk to each other about their emotional issues and struggles. She might even say, "you mean to tell me for those two days that the two of you spoke about NOTHING!" The husband might reply that they talked a lot about hunting, had a great time, and that it was needed and meaningful time with a close friend.
> 
> Why is this? Why is it when male friends get together there are no deep emotional conversations compared to the conversations that women share among their female friends?
> 
> When something bad happens to a guy, we pick ourselves up and move on with our lives. We choose friends that will help pick us back up and get us back going. A hunting trip is about reconnecting with one's primal self and nature, hiking away from the past, and moving forwards towards tomorrow. Instead of rehashing irreconcilable problems and emotions, two male friends will enjoy looking forwards to sharing a great meal tomorrow that they helped each other capture through friendship. A lot happened there! Nothing needed to be said!
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta




Gee, men are so much better than those silly, emotional women who need to talk.


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## happyhusband0005

EllisRedding said:


> I came across this article on my news feed (which I actually think is an older article we have possibly talked about on TAM already, but looks like the article was updated). The article was about the Top 12 Things Women Do to Destroy Their Marriage (calm down ladies, there is corresponding article about what men do as damage  ). One of the items the author listed was:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea of how men view sex in a relationship is something I have brought up in the past as well as others ( @Buddy400 etc...). So my question to the guys of TAM, do you agree with the assessment that the physical aspect of your relationship is needed/critical in order to maintain a closeness/connection with your SO? I have seen some women argue that this is a bunch of fooey. Guys are just a bunch of hornballs who will stick their trouser monster into anything with a hole. If he really needs a release he can go grab some lube and a tisue. Apparently the idea is that men are unable to differentiate between for example having a one night stand with a stranger and having sex with a loved on. It is almost as for a guy, sex with a loved one is something to be rewarded for doing a good act, but can then be withdrawn at any time.
> 
> Now keep in mind, I don't think the author above (who is a female) is advocating that a female needs to make herself available 24/7 for whenever the guy calls on her. The key here is that men are wired differently in their needs (and really the point of this thread, do the men here agree with the author's assessment?). Where a female may need an emotional closeness first, the male may require physical closeness first. No one should have priority over the other, but should hopefully be working together to meet each others needs.
> 
> https://pairedlife.com/problems/Top-10-Things-Women-Do-To-Destroy-Their-Marriage


I actually thought this was just common sense. I think men definitely need sexual intimacy as part of the emotional bond. I don't think is a revelation it's just the way it is. I don't think I know any women who don't recognize this is a fact either.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.
> 
> For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive).
> 
> It really is confusing.
> 
> Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. *Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me.
> *
> Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.
> 
> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.


This is the statement of a woman who clearly gets men. Perfectly expressed.

As to the nonsexual women not coming to TAM, I have seen a few such posts, but they are infrequent here and rarely stick with a thread long enough to become part of the landscape here.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

notmyrealname4 said:


> So, if you were able to have sex, but not have an orgasm; you would be okay with that??


I have actually had a few such encounters with my wife that I found most enjoyable. There is something very special about those times she can truly let herself go with me and I am happy to focus exclusively on her in those moments. Her surrender and accompanying pleasure is highly emotionally rewarding and can be a greater benefit than my sexual release. 

Granted, I couldn't live with that all the time, but it is a very healthy thing for the both of us on occasion.


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## EllisRedding

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.
> 
> For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive).
> 
> It really is confusing.
> 
> Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. *Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me.
> *
> Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.
> 
> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the statement of a woman who clearly gets men. Perfectly expressed.
> 
> As to the nonsexual women not coming to TAM, I have seen a few such posts, but they are infrequent here and rarely stick with a thread long enough to become part of the landscape here.
Click to expand...

I think what happens, those with low/no sex drive usually dont see it is as a problem, so you are less likely to get these people posting on TAM looking for help.


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## badsanta

notmyrealname4 said:


> Gee, men are so much better than those silly, emotional women who need to talk.


When it comes to stress, women never complete the flight or fight response. A hunting trip is about exercise and completing a natural cycle of stress.

There are exceptions to this in that many women might practice yoga or something like that. You don't see groups of women in yoga talking to each other during a class do you? Afterwords they feel better. Nothing needed to be said. A natural stress cycle was completed through exercise.

I think the concept of yoga in relation to fight or flight is kinda funny. Emotionally it is a form of freezing where you allow your emotions to overtake you (much like a gazelle freezes once a lion sinks it teeth around its neck), but a held yoga pose forces one to exercise which is actually a form of flight. It is kind of like tricking a gazelle back into flight! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## happyhusband0005

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do men need physical "closeness", or do they need physical release?
> 
> I mean isn't that why porn is so popular? Super novel and exciting; easy release without much effort?
> 
> Ditto on "emotional connection". If men needed an emotional connection from sex; porn would go out of business. Or, do men bond emotionally with porn in some way? I guess that might be possible.


This assumes release form masturbation and sex are the same. Yes people can watch porn and get off simple and quick. But it is not a replacement for sexual intimacy and binding with a spouse. This is why a sexless marriage is not going to last. If sex leaves a marriage a mans emotional connection to their wives is going to vanish.


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## In Absentia

*"Think of it this way; what if he stopped talking to you for three days? How about a week? What if he didn't talk to you for an entire month? Unconscionable, right?"*

I think my wife would be happy... :grin2:

Anyway, it's easy to say when it's not you having to accommodate a penis in your vagina... talking is easy... :laugh:


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## Buddy400

notmyrealname4 said:


> Gee, men are so much better than those silly, emotional women who need to talk.


No, not better. Just different.

It's a mistake for women to assume that men behave the same way in the same situations as men do and the other way around.

This is in general, of course individuals can vary over a very wide range.


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## Bananapeel

Sex for release and sex for closeness aren't mutually exclusive. Men can want both, and those desires can be different at different times.


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## notmyrealname4

happyhusband0005 said:


> This assumes release form masturbation and sex are the same. *Yes people can watch porn and get off simple and quick. *But it is not a replacement for sexual intimacy and binding with a spouse. This is why a sexless marriage is not going to last. If sex leaves a marriage a mans emotional connection to their wives is going to vanish.


 

Right, so men can have plenty of enjoyable sexual release {porn, one-night-stands, even rape} with zilch emotional connection.

I can agree that if men have sex with a particular woman for an extended period of time; and the rest of the relationship is worthwhile for them; then sex strengthens that bond.

But I don't think I'll ever believe that sex is a primary emotional connection for men. Physical connection *definitely*.


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## CharlieParker

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do men need physical "closeness", or do they need physical release?


Both, preferably at the same time, but that's not necessary. Mornings when she doesn't have to work I love getting her off either manually or orally before I hop in the shower. This provides a nice emotion connection and I leave the house grinning whether or not I'll release myself.

In a pinch, I find I can refill my emotional connection tank if she provides eye candy and physical closeness while I take care of myself. That actually surprised me at first.


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## In Absentia

To me, it's always been both: physical and emotional. If we were just looking for mere physical release, then we would just use prostitutes... or maybe porn. Ideally, a friend with benefits...


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## Buddy400

My wife had a hard time with the concept of men emotional connecting through sex as well.

She knew that men are willing to have sex (generally) with any attractive female (conditions permitting) which would have nothing to do with emotional connection. So, it didn't seem possible that men could be wanting sex for the emotional closeness aspect.

The solution is that men want sex and that is physically fulfilling (and somewhat emotionally fulfilling as it makes most men feel good about themselves).

When their wife (or SO) is involved, then it is not only physically fulfilling, it is emotionally fulfilling as well and results (in most cases) with the men emotionally bonding with their partner.

Sex is not either a physical bonding or an emotional bonding for men. It can be both.

If a man highly values sex and his wife doesn't want to have sex with him (for whatever reason), then he's certainly going to see her as ignoring his happiness. 

When people don't seem to care about your happiness, it creates emotional distance (whether it's sex or talking).

It's important that women understand how men think. It doesn't mean that women need to do what men want, it's just that the information should help them make informed decisions.


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## Lila

EllisRedding said:


> One of the items the author listed was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Withholding Affection and Sex
> This can cause a huge rift in your marriage, whether you realize it or not. *Men are wired differently than women. Your husband needs physical release through sexual intimacy. It is not just something he is demanding of you; it is something he needs, physiologically speaking.*
> 
> When you refuse to meet his need for physical release, you are making a much deeper statement; you do not care about or respect his needs. This is not about whether you like or dislike sex. It is much more important than that. Your spouse needs to connect with you on a physical level, whether you are in the mood or not.
> 
> As much as you need emotional release and closeness, he is wired to need physical release and closeness. Neither is wrong. You are just different. While you want your emotional needs met, it is important not to lose sight of his needs. Think of it this way; what if he stopped talking to you for three days? How about a week? What if he didn't talk to you for an entire month? Unconscionable, right? Likewise, it is unfair for you to cut him off from what he needs. You are in a relationship with a man you love, and you expect your needs to be met. In the same way, you need to meet his needs, regardless of whether you share the same needs and desires.
> 
> 
> 
> So my question to the guys of TAM, do you agree with the assessment that the physical aspect of your relationship is needed/critical in order to maintain a closeness/connection with your SO?
Click to expand...

I hate statements like the one I bolded above because it is not reflective of my ex husband's or my personality. My ex is the one that needs the emotional connection to have sex while I need the sex to have the emotional connection. I offered tons of sex and yet he still wanted the divorce because he wasn't feeling emotionally connected to me.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> I hate statements like the one I bolded above because it is not reflective of my ex husband's or my personality. My ex is the one that needs the emotional connection to have sex while I need the sex to have the emotional connection. *I offered tons of sex and yet he still wanted the divorce because he wasn't feeling emotionally connected to me*.


I don't think anyone's implying that sex will automatically or necessarily in all cases build emotional connection. Only that when an emotional connection is desired with a particular individual, sex but one essential component required to sustain it. 

It's one of those dreadful nonreciprocal laws of life.

If the overall connection is lost, _no amount of sex can fix it.
_
but

If the overall connection exists, an inadequate amount of sex _can _kill it.


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## Buddy400

Articles like the above, by women, are all over the internet.

It's as if half the women get it and the other half just have no idea.


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## EunuchMonk

notmyrealname4 said:


> Gee, men are so much better than those silly, emotional women who need to talk.


Don't beat yourself up about that. Accept it and move on.


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## Faithful Wife

Buddy400 said:


> Articles like the above, by women, are all over the internet.
> 
> It's as if half the women get it and the other half just have no idea.


Maybe it’s a generational thing? With the older half not getting it and the younger half getting it, with some crossovers of course.

But for me, even when I was a young girl, the older women in my life like my grandmother were definitely sexual beings. They spoke about sex in appropriate but frisky and fun ways that gave me the impression that sex was a wonderful thing (implied within a relationship, of course).

Maybe that just means it is also a genetic or heritage thing. Maybe people in certain family lines or heritages are more sexual. So if my family is like that, then perhaps my model is way off as far as what women of previous generations were like. 

Also, it used to confuse me as a kid when I’d see the show The Ropers, which the main theme seemed to be that Mrs. R always wanted sex and Mr. R couldn’t get away fast enough. Even though I was very young, I was aware of the cultural idea that men want sex and men chase women and women don’t want sex and avoid the chasing men (or they enjoy the tease, another cultural idea). Then we have this show which is the opposite. The case could be made that Mrs. R was so unattractive and so shrill that Mr. R would rather forego sex than submit to it with her. Which might make sense if Mr. R weren’t just as gross. 

Slowly, the main theme of that show showed itself to me more and more over time in my real life. I heard countless stories from women friends and friends of friends about men who weren’t chasing them around the bedroom and they didn’t know why. Eventually I came to realize that regardless of cultural ideas, there are a significant amount of LD men in the world.


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## Buddy400

Lila said:


> I hate statements like the one I bolded above because it is not reflective of my ex husband's or my personality. My ex is the one that needs the emotional connection to have sex while I need the sex to have the emotional connection. I offered tons of sex and yet he still wanted the divorce because he wasn't feeling emotionally connected to me.


Men are generally taller than women.

However, there are plenty of women who are taller than an individual man.

If it's necessary to talk about men, women and height in general (let's say you have to choose, sight unseen between Mary and Mike, to reach something on a high shelf), then the generality is helpful.

If you knew both Mary and Mike and knew who was taller, you'd be an idiot to pay attention to the generalization.

So, generalizations are very helpful in discussing large groups (when accurate), but should not be applied to specific individuals.


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I don't think anyone's implying that sex will automatically or necessarily in all cases build emotional connection. Only that when an emotional connection is desired with a particular individual, sex but one essential component required to sustain it.
> 
> *It's one of those dreadful nonreciprocal laws of life.
> 
> If the overall connection is lost, no amount of sex can fix it.
> *
> but
> 
> If the overall connection exists, an inadequate amount of sex _can _kill it.


Agreed, it is dreadful. Your blue comment explains the failure in my marriage and (predominantly) the women who walk away from marriages where sexual frequency/quality is relatively good, at least in the husband's opinion.


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## Lila

Buddy400 said:


> Men are generally taller than women.
> 
> However, there are plenty of women who are taller than an individual man.
> 
> If it's necessary to talk about men, women and height in general (let's say you have to choose, sight unseen between Mary and Mike, to reach something on a high shelf), then the generality is helpful.
> 
> If you knew both Mary and Mike and knew who was taller, you'd be an idiot to pay attention to the generalization.
> 
> So, *generalizations are very helpful in discussing large groups (when accurate), but should not be applied to specific individuals.*


Unfortunately the article does not present it as a generalization. It's very authoritative. So if you're in a situation like mine (which as I have learned through therapy and support groups is not all that uncommon) then the belief is there is something wrong with the wife. After all the author said men need sex to feel connected. She could have explained it the way @Rocky Mountain Yeti explained it above. "If the overall connection is lost, no amount of sex will fix it".


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> Agreed, it is dreadful. Your blue comment explains the failure in my marriage and (predominantly) the women who walk away from marriages where sexual frequency/quality is relatively good, at least in the husband's opinion.


What makes it particularly sad is that so many men claim the second part to be their experience. Men who desperately want to maintain the emotional connection and an unwilling wife sabotages it sexually. It always astonishes me when I hear of men who reject sexually willing wives. My simple monkey brain can't get past the "how does that even happen" thought.


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## happyhusband0005

notmyrealname4 said:


> Right, so men can have plenty of enjoyable sexual release {porn, one-night-stands, even rape} with zilch emotional connection.
> 
> I can agree that if men have sex with a particular woman for an extended period of time; and the rest of the relationship is worthwhile for them; then sex strengthens that bond.
> 
> But I don't think I'll ever believe that sex is a* primary emotional connection* for men. Physical connection *definitely*.


Primary, I would say it is equal to all other key elements, partnership, sharing life goals and priorities and so on. But if you loose it, it is a relationship killer. 

For example if you have a couple who get married and have discussed they both want children, then after a couple years of marriage the husband says I never want kids, that is a primary life factor the wife may not be able to accept (or vice versa). I think for most men if after marriage the wife said I don't want to have sex any more or I only want to have sex once every 4 months, the man is probably going to want out, or will end up cheating. SO is it the main factor, for some yes but for most it is at least a deal breaker, and a man will loose the kind of love a life long marriage requires.


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## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, it is dreadful. Your blue comment explains the failure in my marriage and (predominantly) the women who walk away from marriages where sexual frequency/quality is relatively good, at least in the husband's opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes it particularly sad is that so many men claim the second part to be their experience. Men who desperately want to maintain the emotional connection and an unwilling wife sabotages it sexually. It always astonishes me when I hear of men who reject sexually willing wives. My simple monkey brain can't get past the "how does that even happen" thought.
Click to expand...

It’s so common it would eventually stop making you ask that question if you really knew. This is sort of a weird part of sexuality where statistics don’t quite tell the truth because those kind of statistics require self reporting. But as a woman who has personally experienced it and who has heard from so many first hand accounts of women - - I’m guessing LD men are almost as common as LD women.

One big reason is body image issues. I’ve known 3 women with men who didn’t ever want to have sex, only to find out later the guy just couldn’t stand himself naked and therefore would avoid sex. He did not want to be seen or touched. But he also never admitted to the real problem (not surprising) so it could never be worked on.

That is a common one for LD women, too.

I wonder if LD people who hate their bodies would be any different if they suddenly had a body they loved (or they suddenly learned to love their body). That could really be a smoke screen anyway, I suppose. 

The real reason seems to point to deep intimacy issues. Seems that many LD people don’t want to share themselves that closely with someone else, their reasons vary of course.

In some relationships, it is obvious that he or she is only LD for their partner but there is nothing wrong with their libido outside of that relationship. 

The LD man I was with, that relationship actually helped me in a lot of ways in retrospect. It first of all made me understand that if someone isn’t into you or is LD (makes no difference really) that I really have no reason to take it personally or to be hurt about it. I mean, eventually I just realized hey, why does it make me sad that he didn’t want me? I mean, how does that actually harm me? What harmed me was sticking around and hoping it would get better. If I had just accepted the obvious truth about the situation I would have just said oh I see, we just aren’t compatible and no one is to blame for that.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s so common it would eventually stop making you ask that question if you really knew. This is sort of a weird part of sexuality where statistics don’t quite tell the truth because those kind of statistics require self reporting. But as a woman who has personally experienced it and who has heard from so many first hand accounts of women - - I’m guessing LD men are almost as common as LD women.
> 
> One big reason is body image issues. I’ve known 3 women with men who didn’t ever want to have sex, only to find out later the guy just couldn’t stand himself naked and therefore would avoid sex. He did not want to be seen or touched. But he also never admitted to the real problem (not surprising) so it could never be worked on.
> 
> That is a common one for LD women, too.
> 
> I wonder if LD people who hate their bodies would be any different if they suddenly had a body they loved (or they suddenly learned to love their body). That could really be a smoke screen anyway, I suppose.
> 
> The real reason seems to point to deep intimacy issues. Seems that many LD people don’t want to share themselves that closely with someone else, their reasons vary of course.
> 
> In some relationships, it is obvious that he or she is only LD for their partner but there is nothing wrong with their libido outside of that relationship.
> 
> The LD man I was with, that relationship actually helped me in a lot of ways in retrospect. It first of all made me understand that if someone isn’t into you or is LD (makes no difference really) that I really have no reason to take it personally or to be hurt about it. I mean, eventually I just realized hey, why does it make me sad that he didn’t want me? I mean, how does that actually harm me? What harmed me was sticking around and hoping it would get better. If I had just accepted the obvious truth about the situation I would have just said oh I see, we just aren’t compatible and no one is to blame for that.



As to the red, I remain dubious, but as I can't say with total certainty, I won't argue. 

As to the green, I've always found that fascinating. Most folks who have body image issues have bodies that plenty of the opposite sex would find perfectly acceptable. It seems to be a mental disorder like a mild form of anorexia where a person looks in the mirror and the reflection shows protruding bones, but their brain tells them they're intolerably fat. 

Of course the images we're bombarded with don't help. Whether its the porn the boyfriend is watching or the Cosmo/Vogue/Runway models the women themselves gobble up, it sets not only unrealistic, but also what are for most, irrelevant expectations.


----------



## Buddy400

Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe it’s a generational thing? With the older half not getting it and the younger half getting it, with some crossovers of course.
> 
> But for me, even when I was a young girl, the older women in my life like my grandmother were definitely sexual beings. They spoke about sex in appropriate but frisky and fun ways that gave me the impression that sex was a wonderful thing (implied within a relationship, of course).
> 
> Maybe that just means it is also a genetic or heritage thing. Maybe people in certain family lines or heritages are more sexual. So if my family is like that, then perhaps my model is way off as far as what women of previous generations were like.
> 
> Also, it used to confuse me as a kid when I’d see the show The Ropers, which the main theme seemed to be that Mrs. R always wanted sex and Mr. R couldn’t get away fast enough. Even though I was very young, I was aware of the cultural idea that men want sex and men chase women and women don’t want sex and avoid the chasing men (or they enjoy the tease, another cultural idea). Then we have this show which is the opposite. The case could be made that Mrs. R was so unattractive and so shrill that Mr. R would rather forego sex than submit to it with her. Which might make sense if Mr. R weren’t just as gross.
> 
> Slowly, the main theme of that show showed itself to me more and more over time in my real life. I heard countless stories from women friends and friends of friends about men who weren’t chasing them around the bedroom and they didn’t know why. Eventually I came to realize that regardless of cultural ideas, there are a significant amount of LD men in the world.


Personally, I think that there IS a significant difference in the baseline sex drive of men and women. A difference due to testosterone.

I would guess that 75% of men and 25% of women are spontaneous desire and the reverse responsive (or no) desire.

It was presented for a long time as 100% of men and 5%(?) of women having a strong sex drive. Clearly, that was wrong and did lead many men and women to think that there was something "wrong" with them because they didn't follow the stereotype. It's progress that these stereotypes have been torn down a bit. Married with Children served a valuable purpose in presenting a case where the "common wisdom" was wrong.

However, I DO think that there is a difference in general and that we have gone a bit too far in assuming that men's and women's sex drives are equal. If that's not true , then we stand to give a lot of bad advice if that's not the case (generally).

I think it's a mistake to not use generalizations when talking about large or undefined groups of people and a mistake to use them when talking about individuals.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it’s a generational thing? With the older half not getting it and the younger half getting it, with some crossovers of course.
> 
> But for me, even when I was a young girl, the older women in my life like my grandmother were definitely sexual beings. They spoke about sex in appropriate but frisky and fun ways that gave me the impression that sex was a wonderful thing (implied within a relationship, of course).
> 
> Maybe that just means it is also a genetic or heritage thing. Maybe people in certain family lines or heritages are more sexual. So if my family is like that, then perhaps my model is way off as far as what women of previous generations were like.
> 
> Also, it used to confuse me as a kid when I’d see the show The Ropers, which the main theme seemed to be that Mrs. R always wanted sex and Mr. R couldn’t get away fast enough. Even though I was very young, I was aware of the cultural idea that men want sex and men chase women and women don’t want sex and avoid the chasing men (or they enjoy the tease, another cultural idea). Then we have this show which is the opposite. The case could be made that Mrs. R was so unattractive and so shrill that Mr. R would rather forego sex than submit to it with her. Which might make sense if Mr. R weren’t just as gross.
> 
> Slowly, the main theme of that show showed itself to me more and more over time in my real life. I heard countless stories from women friends and friends of friends about men who weren’t chasing them around the bedroom and they didn’t know why. Eventually I came to realize that regardless of cultural ideas, there are a significant amount of LD men in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think that there IS a significant difference in the baseline sex drive of men and women. A difference due to testosterone.
> 
> I would guess that 75% of men and 25% of women are spontaneous desire and the reverse responsive (or no) desire.
> 
> It was presented for a long time as 100% of men and 5%(?) of women having a strong sex drive. Clearly, that was wrong and did lead many men and women to think that there was something "wrong" with them because they didn't follow the stereotype. It's progress that these stereotypes have been torn down a bit. Married with Children served a valuable purpose in presenting a case where the "common wisdom" was wrong.
> 
> However, I DO think that there is a difference in general and that we have gone a bit too far in assuming that men's and women's sex drives are equal. If that's not true , then we stand to give a lot of bad advice if that's not the case (generally).
> 
> I think it's a mistake to not use generalizations when talking about large or undefined groups of people and a mistake to use them when talking about individuals.
Click to expand...

Even at 25%, that is a huge percentage of the population. Like 1 in 4 men being LD.

I am not saying men and women are the same. It seems you say that to me a lot, but I have never felt that men and women are “the same”.

Viva la difference!!


----------



## Buddy400

notmyrealname4 said:


> Right, so men can have plenty of enjoyable sexual release {porn, one-night-stands, even rape} with zilch emotional connection.
> 
> I can agree that if men have sex with a particular woman for an extended period of time; and the rest of the relationship is worthwhile for them; then sex strengthens that bond.
> 
> But I don't think I'll ever believe that sex is a primary emotional connection for men. Physical connection *definitely*.


Physical connection could well be the primary driver for men wanting sex and also be the primary way that men emotionally connect with their SO.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Buddy400 said:


> Personally, I think that there IS a significant difference in the baseline sex drive of men and women. A difference due to testosterone.
> 
> I would guess that 75% of men and 25% of women are spontaneous desire and the reverse responsive (or no) desire.
> 
> It was presented for a long time as 100% of men and 5%(?) of women having a strong sex drive. Clearly, that was wrong and did lead many men and women to think that there was something "wrong" with them because they didn't follow the stereotype. It's progress that these stereotypes have been torn down a bit. *Married with Children served a valuable purpose in presenting a case where the "common wisdom" was wrong.
> 
> *However, I DO think that there is a difference in general and that we have gone a bit too far in assuming that men's and women's sex drives are equal. If that's not true , then we stand to give a lot of bad advice if that's not the case (generally).
> 
> I think it's a mistake to not use generalizations when talking about large or undefined groups of people and a mistake to use them when talking about individuals.


Three's company beat them to the punch with the Mr. & Mrs. Roper characters as well. 

(yeah, knowing that shows my age)


----------



## Faithful Wife

EunuchMonk said:


> Don't beat yourself up about that. Accept it and move on.


Not sure why you posted this picture but, THANK YOU!!! >


----------



## Buddy400

Faithful Wife said:


> Even at 25%, that is a huge percentage of the population. Like 1 in 4 men being LD.


Yes, 25% of men being LD would be much more than most would imagine.



Faithful Wife said:


> I am not saying men and women are the same. It seems you say that to me a lot, but I have never felt that men and women are “the same”.
> 
> Viva la difference!!


I wasn't aiming that directly at you.

I will admit that I might have thought that was your opinion.

You so often respond to a "women do this" with a "men do it too" that I might have taken that as going past "stereotypes don't apply to everybody" to "men and women are the same".

Good (to me!) to have you confirm that you acknowledge differences.

I don't really care if they're the same or not, I just want to know what reality IS, and my suspicion is that there are significant differences.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even at 25%, that is a huge percentage of the population. Like 1 in 4 men being LD.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, 25% of men being LD would be much more than most would imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying men and women are the same. It seems you say that to me a lot, but I have never felt that men and women are “the same”.
> 
> Viva la difference!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't aiming that directly at you.
> 
> I will admit that I might have thought that was your opinion.
> 
> You so often respond to a "women do this" with a "men do it too" that I might have taken that as going past "stereotypes don't apply to everybody" to "men and women are the same".
> 
> Good (to me!) to have you confirm that you acknowledge differences.
> 
> I don't really care if they're the same or not, I just want to know what reality IS, and my suspicion is that there are significant differences.
Click to expand...

Yes Buddy, boys and girls are different. You see, boys have an outie and girls have an innie. Lolz 

But seriously, yes of course it’s all different. 

For me, the “same” parts are things like the fact that there are a significant amount of people who are LD. There may be more women than men (no way to test that out) but even if there are more women, there are enough men that it should never be assumed that “all men are HD”. And also that it is not rare. LD or asexual or fear of intimacy or body image issues....all of these are genderless. They happen to people, not men or women.

This in no way suggests that we are “the same” in our sexuality. But maybe we are closer to “the same” in our lack of sexuality.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> As to the green, I've always found that fascinating. Most folks who have body image issues have bodies that plenty of the opposite sex would find perfectly acceptable. It seems to be a mental disorder like a mild form of anorexia where a person looks in the mirror and the reflection shows protruding bones, but their brain tells them they're intolerably fat.
> 
> Of course the images we're bombarded with don't help. Whether its the porn the boyfriend is watching or the Cosmo/Vogue/Runway models the women themselves gobble up, it sets not only unrealistic, but also what are for most, irrelevant expectations.


For the women I've known who have been with men who had body image issues, this was their issues.....1 was very overweight, 1 was skinny with no muscle tone and had a bad case of eczema, and 1 was sort of skinny/flabby and was obsessed with porn so he always felt he couldn't measure up (and I don't mean his peen, apparently that was fine, it was the rest of his body that couldn't measure up).

In all 3 cases, these men loved the woman, she was still physically attractive and was always wanting sex with the guy. Eventually, all 3 guys just went totally sexless rather than deal with their issues.

1 of the couples is still married (the overweight guy), been zero sex for several years now, she is just waiting out the time until her son is out of school.

1 of the couples is also still married (eczema guy), they have struggled with the issue for years, he may or may not ever improve but it looks like not. They will likely eventually divorce when she can't handle the sexlessness anymore.

The last couple split up over sexlessness, they were never married. They remained friends. He told her later how much he hated his body and confessed this is why he never wanted to have sex.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

EllisRedding said:


> I came across this article on my news feed (which I actually think is an older article we have possibly talked about on TAM already, but looks like the article was updated). The article was about the Top 12 Things Women Do to Destroy Their Marriage (calm down ladies, there is corresponding article about what men do as damage  ). One of the items the author listed was:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea of how men view sex in a relationship is something I have brought up in the past as well as others ( @Buddy400 etc...). So my question to the guys of TAM, do you agree with the assessment that the physical aspect of your relationship is needed/critical in order to maintain a closeness/connection with your SO? I have seen some women argue that this is a bunch of fooey. Guys are just a bunch of hornballs who will stick their trouser monster into anything with a hole. If he really needs a release he can go grab some lube and a tisue. Apparently the idea is that men are unable to differentiate between for example having a one night stand with a stranger and having sex with a loved on. It is almost as for a guy, sex with a loved one is something to be rewarded for doing a good act, but can then be withdrawn at any time.
> 
> Now keep in mind, I don't think the author above (who is a female) is advocating that a female needs to make herself available 24/7 for whenever the guy calls on her. The key here is that men are wired differently in their needs (and really the point of this thread, do the men here agree with the author's assessment?). Where a female may need an emotional closeness first, the male may require physical closeness first. No one should have priority over the other, but should hopefully be working together to meet each others needs.
> 
> https://pairedlife.com/problems/Top-10-Things-Women-Do-To-Destroy-Their-Marriage


I agree with #5 as it does apply to me.


----------



## MEM2020

There is intense hostility towards folks who marry and then deny their partners sex.




Faithful Wife said:


> This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.
> 
> For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive).
> 
> It really is confusing.
> 
> Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me.
> 
> Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.
> 
> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> For the women I've known who have been with men who had body image issues, this was their issues.....1 was very overweight, 1 was skinny with no muscle tone and had a bad case of eczema, and 1 was sort of skinny/flabby and was obsessed with porn so he always felt he couldn't measure up (and I don't mean his peen, apparently that was fine, it was the rest of his body that couldn't measure up).
> 
> In all 3 cases, these men loved the woman, she was still physically attractive and was always wanting sex with the guy. Eventually, all 3 guys just went totally sexless rather than deal with their issues.
> 
> 1 of the couples is still married (the overweight guy), been zero sex for several years now, she is just waiting out the time until her son is out of school.
> 
> 1 of the couples is also still married (eczema guy), they have struggled with the issue for years, he may or may not ever improve but it looks like not. They will likely eventually divorce when she can't handle the sexlessness anymore.
> 
> The last couple split up over sexlessness, they were never married. They remained friends. He told her later how much he hated his body and confessed this is why he never wanted to have sex.


It's interesting you use three examples of men with body image issues. Like LD men, this would seem to fly in the face of the generally accepted stereotypes. The usual image is that even the fat, old, balding pug-faced dude thinks women should be falling over each other to get to his ****. Society generally focuses on women as the ones with body image issues and eating disorders are almost exclusively the purview of women (unless of course you include gluttony an eating disorder as men do that plenty). I can't say as I've ever known a guy with body image issues (but then again, it's not something a guy would talk about with another guy, so it could all be part of the great male silence phenomenon).


----------



## Steelman

Faithful Wife said:


> This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.
> 
> For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive).
> 
> It really is confusing.
> 
> Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me.
> 
> Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.
> 
> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.


Everyone on the internet is a nympho, right :smile2:

I think women who don't like or want sex are just plain indifferent, and don't think they have a problem in their marriage, or don't want to admit it. Roomate life is just fine. So they don't show up here.


----------



## Mr. Nail

And THIS, folks, is the reason I am on the very last relationship of my life. I'm not attracted to men, and no woman will ever be able to understand me. However this one ends, its over with this one.


----------



## uhtred

There is a ton of variation. Just as there are significant numbers of HD and LD men AND women, I think there are significant numbers of men and women with body image problems. 

People can find all sorts of reasons to be unhappy with their bodies, and these reasons can be completely irrational. They can persist in these despite overwhelming evidence that in their particular cases, their worries are not justified. 





Faithful Wife said:


> For the women I've known who have been with men who had body image issues, this was their issues.....1 was very overweight, 1 was skinny with no muscle tone and had a bad case of eczema, and 1 was sort of skinny/flabby and was obsessed with porn so he always felt he couldn't measure up (and I don't mean his peen, apparently that was fine, it was the rest of his body that couldn't measure up).
> 
> In all 3 cases, these men loved the woman, she was still physically attractive and was always wanting sex with the guy. Eventually, all 3 guys just went totally sexless rather than deal with their issues.
> 
> 1 of the couples is still married (the overweight guy), been zero sex for several years now, she is just waiting out the time until her son is out of school.
> 
> 1 of the couples is also still married (eczema guy), they have struggled with the issue for years, he may or may not ever improve but it looks like not. They will likely eventually divorce when she can't handle the sexlessness anymore.
> 
> The last couple split up over sexlessness, they were never married. They remained friends. He told her later how much he hated his body and confessed this is why he never wanted to have sex.


----------



## notmyrealname4

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes Buddy, boys and girls are different. You see, boys have an outie and girls have an innie. Lolz




No, "not all men have penises and not all women have vaginas", haven't you heard?!? :grin2:


j/k


----------



## ConanHub

This is maybe too deep for me tonight.

I could, and have, had sex at the drop of a hat simply because we were both attracted and wanted to.

Since I met Mrs. C, I have limited sex to her of course. I love her regardless of sexual frequency and I actually don't feel closer to her after sex. I feel closer to her when we accomplish something together or get each other laughing really hard or have a really good date.

I pretty much want sex all the time because it feels really good and I do enjoy the physical intimacy but it doesn't help me form emotional bonds. I really really love sex but I can't claim it is a need for me though I can get pretty damn randy and start being tempted after too long between sessions.

Mrs. C actually does seem to need sex even though her drive is below mine.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Faithful Wife said:


> This point is always confusing to me because men seem to say one thing about themselves, and another about other men.
> 
> For themselves they say sex is emotional and important, but regarding other men they say “men want sex with any willing woman” and that this urge is meaningless. Men even tell us that they (or that “other men”) are turned on by almost every average looking woman in the world (and then they complain that women only find 20% of men attractive).
> 
> It really is confusing.
> 
> Regardless of this confusion, in my actual experience the men I’ve been with are complex sexual creatures. They are not just slavering dogs but they do have a high sex drive, which is my preference. Their desire for sex would be present within them with or without a relationship, but their desire for intimate connection with me was just as high. It was never just the act of sex or my body they wanted with me, they wanted ALL of me.
> 
> Since I enjoy sex the same way and for the same reasons, it worked well.
> 
> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here. I’d like to hear what a woman like that actually has to say. I don’t know any women who admit to anything like that so I have no clue what they are thinking.


My experience is the opposite. The women all seem to feed off each other. Making fun about how much their husbands want sex and how much they turn them down.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I don't think anyone's implying that sex will automatically or necessarily in all cases build emotional connection. Only that when an emotional connection is desired with a particular individual, sex but one essential component required to sustain it.
> 
> It's one of those dreadful nonreciprocal laws of life.
> 
> If the overall connection is lost, _no amount of sex can fix it.
> _
> but
> 
> If the overall connection exists, an inadequate amount of sex _can _kill it.


Damn well said!! 

I think this provides the best answer and summary of this whole thread.

A perfect answer is where neither adding or subtracting improves the intended meaning, and this answer, if W and M took to heart, would solve a lot of trouble.


----------



## SpinyNorman

IMO self-help books will generalize, simplify, and dumb it down. 

Read a self-help book and there is some very straightforward action you take and it works for everyone. Read some research and you find out there are a bunch of categories people fall into, and behavior is complex. Now guess which of the two is peer reviewed, and which is trying to sound like a miracle cure to some dupe with the price of a book in his pocket.


----------



## 269370

Has anyone been able to define what exactly they mean by ‘emotional connection’?
This may mean different things to different people. 
What means do you use to achieve it?
Your wife may feel emotionally connected when she is watching a tv show while you may need to have an actual conversation...
So there’s potential for mismatch when it comes to definitions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

This issue is definitely complex and different from person to person and every couple has it's own dynamic.

Mrs. Conan can have, and even desires, sex when angry or emotionally conflicted. I can't.


----------



## SpinyNorman

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s funny to me that we don’t seem to have any women at TAM who don’t want sex or who don’t think sex is important in a relationship. But women like this must be plenty. Weird that they don’t end up here.


I have never thought of TAM as a representative cross-section of society and don't understand why anyone does. Most internet chat rooms gravitate towards some pole or another. While TAM is less polar than a lot of places, you will dodge a lot of rocks if you take certain positions, and most posters prefer to go somewhere where they are the majority.


----------



## Faithful Wife

SpinyNorman said:


> I have never thought of TAM as a representative cross-section of society and don't understand why anyone does. Most internet chat rooms gravitate towards some pole or another. While TAM is less polar than a lot of places, you will dodge a lot of rocks if you take certain positions, and most posters prefer to go somewhere where they are the majority.


Yes, all of that. And as Mem replied to me upthread, basically, if women posted things like "I don't see why sex is so important to my husband and I won't do it unless I feel like it" she would be immediately handed her own ass.


----------



## Buddy400

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, all of that. And as Mem replied to me upthread, basically, if women posted things like "*I don't see why sex is so important to my husband and I won't do it unless I feel like it*" she would be immediately handed her own ass.


It would be very interesting to know what sites those women visit where they are in the majority.

We see some of that on the occasional link to an "Angry Mama" site.

Anyone know of a site that specializes in women who say the bolded? 

It must exist.


----------



## Buddy400

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, all of that. And as Mem replied to me upthread, basically, if women posted things like "I don't see why sex is so important to my husband and I won't do it unless I feel like it" she would be immediately handed her own ass.


It would be nice if TAM was able to engage that sort of poster in a meaningful discussion rather than just piling on and chasing them away.

On the other hand, when has that ever happened on the internet?


----------



## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> It would be very interesting to know what sites those women visit where they are in the majority.
> 
> 
> 
> We see some of that on the occasional link to an "Angry Mama" site.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know of a site that specializes in women who say the bolded?
> 
> 
> 
> It must exist.



I doubt it. I don’t see many people who don’t play table tennis and who simultaneously hate table tennis, complain about how much they dislike table tennis.
They just don’t play it. There’s nothing to complain about.


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## Buddy400

inmyprime said:


> I doubt it. I don’t see many people who don’t play table tennis and who simultaneously hate table tennis, complain about how much they dislike table tennis.
> They just don’t play it. There’s nothing to complain about.


I'm not supposing that there's a site specifically targeting women who don't like sex.

Probably a site dedicated to complaining about their husbands.


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## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> I'm not supposing that there's a site specifically targeting women who don't like sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably a site dedicated to complaining about their husbands.



Probably because there is nothing to complain about. Clearly. 


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## Faithful Wife

Buddy400 said:


> It would be very interesting to know what sites those women visit where they are in the majority.
> 
> We see some of that on the occasional link to an "Angry Mama" site.
> 
> Anyone know of a site that specializes in women who say the bolded?
> 
> It must exist.


Well, there is AVEN which is the site for asexual people. And it is quite fascinating. Not quite the same issue, though. At least they have a place to go. Generally the world does not embrace asexual people and there are so few of them, they usually feel quite left out of the rest of the world. Reading their threads is mind bending.

It is certainly not a group of frigid housewives going on about how they don't have sex with their husbands and how stupid sex is.

Like SadSam said upthread, apparently his world is filled with women like this. Where do they go to talk about how stupid sex is? I can't even imagine.


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## EllisRedding

I can say that from the guys I know IRL, lack of sex with their W is a common complaint. Now keep in mind, there could be a multitude of factors involved, so I am not implying that in each of these cases the W is withholding sex or that the guy is in any way completely innocent in all this. However, it does seem to be a common theme, and there is very likely a disconnect (maybe in part due to what the author of this thread has stated, IDK). I am actually surprised when I see some people post here about how they have good / great sex lives even though they have been married for a while with kids. Although TBH, it does seem like those who have better sex lives are on the older side, possibly older kids or out of the house, etc... Maybe that is the reason why most guys I know seem to have issues with the sex lives since they are on the younger side, raising families, etc....


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## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> I'm not supposing that there's a site specifically targeting women who don't like sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably a site dedicated to complaining about their husbands.




The solution: let’s get high, apparently:

https://www.yourtango.com/2016295130/i-love-my-husband-i-dont-want-have-sex-him


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## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> I'm not supposing that there's a site specifically targeting women who don't like sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably a site dedicated to complaining about their husbands.



I was reading about some of these mums websites and there, women often complain about husbands but most issues relate to kids, schools, health etc. The thing is that once there is a family, husband takes a backseat and unless he really is demanding or a distraction from her priorities, there really is no reason to complain. Whereas for the man, the priorities don’t often change.

At least I remember this (brief but intense) period where I felt strongly that I took a backseat in the picture once the kids popped out and my function was basically being a human wallet and getting out of the way of my wife (powermum). My wife was always referring to ‘us’ as a family unit and this really annoyed me because I felt ‘us’ meant me and her: man and woman, husband and wife, penis and vajayjay. When I hinted at it, she looked at me as if I spoke Chinese (ok she does speak Mandarin but same difference).

My point is, it is silly to assume that for every complaining husband (who complains about lack of intimacy), there should be a complaining wife to complain about the opposite: it completely doesn’t work like this. The guy will simply back off and stop nagging and the woman will often not suspect that anything is wrong (as the common scenario).
He will retreat to his man cave and jerk off to porn & sign up to TAM and she will sign up to Mumsnet to find solutions to her own dilemmas which have nothing to do with husband . (Usually. Yeah I know, stereotyping much but whateva).


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## notmyrealname4

inmyprime said:


> Has anyone been able to define what exactly they mean by ‘emotional connection’?




"You give me sex which makes me feel good"

Feeling good is an emotion.

There's your "connection"


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## SpinyNorman

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, all of that. And as Mem replied to me upthread, basically, if women posted things like "I don't see why sex is so important to my husband and I won't do it unless I feel like it" she would be immediately handed her own ass.


The funny thing about the internet is how few people post unpopular stuff, despite the fact that you won't get beaten up, fired, or your tires slashed as you might if you expressed such an opinion in real life. Maybe we'd learn something from hearing from people. I don't think we will, at least not often.


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## Buddy400

EllisRedding said:


> I can say that from the guys I know IRL, lack of sex with their W is a common complaint. Now keep in mind, there could be a multitude of factors involved, so I am not implying that in each of these cases the W is withholding sex or that the guy is in any way completely innocent in all this. However, it does seem to be a common theme, and there is very likely a disconnect (maybe in part due to what the author of this thread has stated, IDK). I am actually surprised when I see some people post here about how they have good / great sex lives even though they have been married for a while with kids. Although TBH, it does seem like those who have better sex lives are on the older side, possibly older kids or out of the house, etc... Maybe that is the reason why most guys I know seem to have issues with the sex lives since they are on the younger side, raising families, etc....


The point in a marriage where there are young children is usually the nadir of a couple's sex life.

It has several influences on sex (all negative). 

1) Lower libido due to breastfeeding (when primitive tribes in New Guinea have a child while breastfeeding the last one, they abandon the new one in the forest somewhere). Breastfeeding sends a signal to the women along the lines of "Don't you DARE have sex".

2) Pregnancy often leads to the woman having body image problems.

3) Women seeing themselves as "Mothers" more than "Wives"

4) Women being "touched out"

5) More responsibilities leading women to be more anxious (and they're more likely to be anxious in the first place).

6) With so much more to do, sex drops in priority. If it wasn't at the top of the list before children, it usually drops completely off of the list after.

If men knew that their sex life would revive at some point in the future, they'd probably be better able to cope. But, to be honest, sex doesn't always return and certainly not at some date knowable in advance.

So, it's a tough time. Both men and women should be warned that the woman's libido may be greatly reduced and the man's probably won't. Not saying what they should do about it, but they should at least go into it with their eyes open.


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## notmyrealname4

Buddy400 said:


> 1) Lower libido due to breastfeeding (when primitive tribes in New Guinea have a child while breastfeeding the last one, they abandon the new one in the forest somewhere). Breastfeeding sends a signal to the women along the lines of "Don't you DARE have sex".



Huh? I mean why do they abandon the newborn? And I don't understand about breastfeeding sending a warning against having sex?


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## Buddy400

inmyprime said:


> The solution: let’s get high, apparently:
> 
> https://www.yourtango.com/2016295130/i-love-my-husband-i-dont-want-have-sex-him


From the article...
_
"Somewhere in my 5th year of marriage, I realized I could no longer stand the thought of kissing him.

I can't really pinpoint why; it was just there one day, that* disgust over having to kiss him*, and I couldn't shake it to save my life"_

If anybody finds themselves thinking the above, best to keep it to yourself.

If my wife ever told me that, there's no chance I'd ever kiss her again, much less have sex with her.


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## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> So, it's a tough time. Both men and women should be warned that the woman's libido may be greatly reduced and the man's probably won't. Not saying what they should do about it, but they should at least go into it with their eyes open.



The man’s libido increases actually, that’s the problem. Mine did anyway. I saw my wife being all fertile and all and it just made me want to keep impregnating and stuffing her with all the custard I could muster.



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## Buddy400

notmyrealname4 said:


> Huh? I mean why do they abandon the newborn? And I don't understand about breastfeeding sending a warning against having sex?


There isn't enough breast milk for both and the new kid would endanger the survival of the older one. So, off to a nearby hill it goes. Stuff like this was much more common in the natural "good old days" then we'd like to imagine.

Why does it signal "don't have sex"? Because another kid before you're done weaning the previous one leads to problems.


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## anonmd

notmyrealname4 said:


> Huh? I mean why do they abandon the newborn? And I don't understand about breastfeeding sending a warning against having sex?


Can't comment on the abandonment thing, sounds right but I don't know. As to the last part, really? Pretty common knowledge that breast feeding knocks the hell out of libido:
https://www.lllc.ca/thursdays-tip-breastfeeding-and-hormones-sexuality

Admittedly a biased source but the science quoted is good. The conclusions are a little rich


> While the hormones involved in breastfeeding may have a dampening effect on sexual desire in the early months, intimacy is more likely to occur when mother is feeling rested and supported in her parenting and other roles by her partner. Some mothers feel, or are made to feel, that stopping breastfeeding will resolve any lessening of libido they are experiencing. While stopping breastfeeding will change the mother’s hormonal environment, she may also feel resentful or unhappy about the change in her relationship with her baby and those negative feelings may reduce her desire for lovemaking.


So basically, suck it up and suffer :wink2:


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## notmyrealname4

anonmd said:


> As to the last part, really? Pretty common knowledge that breast feeding knocks the hell out of libido:



Maybe. But then there are people who get into adult nursing relationships too.

I've never been pregnant so I don't know. It seems like breastfeeding could make a woman feel so feminine and lifegiving that it could possibly increase desire for intimacy.

But I suppose that could well be a minority of women.


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## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> Maybe. But then there are people who get into adult nursing relationships too.
> 
> I've never been pregnant so I don't know. It seems like breastfeeding could make a woman feel so feminine and lifegiving that it could possibly increase desire for intimacy.
> 
> But I suppose that could well be a minority of women.


Part of what I saw from my W and heard other women comment on was the idea as Buddy mentioned of being "touched out". Having a baby all over you (from breastfeeding, restless/squirming, etc...) the last thing you wanted after finally getting the baby down was to be touched again.


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## anonmd

notmyrealname4 said:


> Maybe. But then there are people who get into adult nursing relationships too.
> 
> I've never been pregnant so I don't know. It seems like breastfeeding could make a woman feel so feminine and lifegiving that it could possibly increase desire for intimacy.
> 
> But I suppose that could well be a minority of women.


Uhhh, OK. 

I will grant you that some women may not be effected the way the one I am married to was and the way the wives of many of the men with children here are commenting on. But, trust me, it is very common. The whole motherhood thing REALLY changes women on average. Starting with pregnancy and moving on to all the rest including breast feeding.


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## 269370

Buddy400 said:


> There isn't enough breast milk for both and the new kid would endanger the survival of the older one. So, off to a nearby hill it goes. Stuff like this was much more common in the natural "good old days" then we'd like to imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does it signal "don't have sex"? Because another kid before you're done weaning the previous one leads to problems.




Yes, now they have abortions...


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## 269370

notmyrealname4 said:


> Maybe. But then there are people who get into adult nursing relationships too.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been pregnant so I don't know. It seems like breastfeeding could make a woman feel so feminine and lifegiving that it could possibly increase desire for intimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> But I suppose that could well be a minority of women.



Yeah so when my wife was breastfeeding, I was so happy when I saw her breasts all swell up, like Greek melons, bursting will milk, thinking to myself “yay, tit jobs and milk squirting, here I come!”
None of it. The whole upper zone was a ‘no go’ zone. It was the baby’s territory and baby’s food. No men or peens allowed anywhere near them.
Plus nipples hurt like hell apparently and also woman stops considering this an erogenous area entirely for the duration.
And libido way down too. My wife also lost sensations in her clit while breastfeeding and it didn’t return until few months after she stopped I think. She couldn’t come from my magical oral skillz anymore...

It was a very dark time for men-kind 


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## 269370

But I know what women are thinking: “what the **** is wrong with you; we have to carry the baby for 9 months, be sick and push that thing out then nurse it, change nappies, wash, not sleep and you cry about not getting sprayed with full fat milk?” (Where’s @She'sStillGotIt when you need her 

Fair enough. Having been present at all three births, I wish I could have done something to take some of that discomfort/pain away from her (though I was the one mostly on gas & air during labour. Men are not made for this....You womenzz are amazzing )


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> Yeah so when my wife was breastfeeding, I was so happy when I saw her breasts all swell up, like Greek melons, bursting will milk, thinking to myself “yay, tit jobs and milk squirting, here I come!”
> None of it. The whole upper zone was a ‘no go’ zone. It was the baby’s territory and baby’s food. No men or peens allowed anywhere near them.
> Plus nipples hurt like hell apparently and also woman stops considering this an erogenous area entirely for the duration.
> And libido way down too. My wife also lost sensations in her clit while breastfeeding and it didn’t return until few months after she stopped I think. She couldn’t come from my magical oral skillz anymore...
> 
> It was a very dark time for men-kind
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The body also requires a lot of energy to produce all that nourishment for a third party. My wife was utterly exhausted throughout the breastfeeding period for all three of our kids. (some women aren't so drained (no pun intended) but many are). It took tremendous effort for her to want to have sex during that time.


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## In Absentia

inmyprime said:


> Yeah so when my wife was breastfeeding, I was so happy when I saw her breasts all swell up, like Greek melons, bursting will milk, thinking to myself “yay, tit jobs and milk squirting, here I come!”
> None of it. The whole upper zone was a ‘no go’ zone. It was the baby’s territory and baby’s food. No men or peens allowed anywhere near them.
> Plus nipples hurt like hell apparently and also woman stops considering this an erogenous area entirely for the duration.
> And libido way down too. My wife also lost sensations in her clit while breastfeeding and it didn’t return until few months after she stopped I think. She couldn’t come from my magical oral skillz anymore...
> 
> It was a very dark time for men-kind
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This ^^^^ Man, those breasts full of sweet milk... :laugh:

No-go area... quite a disappointment, but I got it. :crying: Anyway, after dealing with a baby all the time, yes, my wife didn't want to be hounded again. She wanted her body for herself. Fair enough. I always had to wait over 3 months until we could "touch base" again and still no breasts touching... :|


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## In Absentia

inmyprime said:


> (though I was the one mostly on gas & air during labour.)



I enjoyed that massively too... :laugh:


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## Dusk

Go to r/deadbedrooms and you'll see that it's a fairly even split between men and women being the higher drive/denied partners. So I think that article is mostly nonsense. 

Generalisations are not helpful. My husband doesn't feel particularly bonded through having sex. He enjoys it because it feels good, as do I. Placing a lot of emotional and relationship validation on sex gives it way too much power and makes it more likely that one or both partners will lose interest.


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## EleGirl

happyhusband0005 said:


> I actually thought this was just common sense. I think men definitely need sexual intimacy as part of the emotional bond. I don't think is a revelation it's just the way it is. I don't think I know any women who don't recognize this is a fact either.


When it comes to having a strong emotional bond with their partner, women need sex as well. Why? Because humans are chemical engines. When we have sex, our brains produce and uptake large amounts of hormones such as dopamine, oxytocin, etc. Without this hyper production/uptake of oxytocin a woman will not stay emotionally bound to her partner. Once a woman's oxytocin levels are too low, she gets to the point of not wanting to be touched, not wanting sex, etc. 

It's similar for men, though from what I have read, this is more profound in women.


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## Dusk

Sex has to be fun though. If a woman (or a man) is having sex primarily to keep their partner feeling close to them, they will eventually develop an aversion and not be able to continue. People need to be having sex for themselves for it to be sustainable.


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## john117

MEM2020 said:


> There is intense hostility towards folks who marry and then deny their partners sex.


For a good reason.


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## personofinterest

john117 said:


> MEM2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is intense hostility towards folks who marry and then deny their partners sex.
> 
> 
> 
> For a good reason.
Click to expand...

 Exactly. To get married and then expect not to have sex with your partner is bordering on stupidity and insanity. The one thing everyone with a brain knows marriage involves is 6. I don't have any sympathy for someone who makes a vow to a person and then refuses to meet their needs period..


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## farsidejunky

This approach, while ideal, becomes much more difficult when sexlessness enters the picture.


Dusk said:


> Go to r/deadbedrooms and you'll see that it's a fairly even split between men and women being the higher drive/denied partners. So I think that article is mostly nonsense.
> 
> Generalisations are not helpful. My husband doesn't feel particularly bonded through having sex. He enjoys it because it feels good, as do I. Placing a lot of emotional and relationship validation on sex gives it way too much power and makes it more likely that one or both partners will lose interest.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

I can't tell whether I'm in the majority, minority, or in the middle, but, I put a certain amount of respect for the increased closeness dear W and I have before, during, and after a good romp.

That leads me to increased actions to keep her happy.

That ain't rocket science, I know, but hey I didn't start this thread. 😘

I do think it's a good topic.


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## BarbedFenceRider

With both of my kids, my wife was willing and forward with sex after the doc cleared her for take off. She was so worried I didn't find her attractive anymore. When actually, the thought of my wife carrying my kids and us becoming a family made me desire her more....

Yes, the breasts were sensitive, but we both looked for ways to mitigate pain and still resume love making.....


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## Wolf1974

Not sure if most men are like this but for me it has always been that I don’t need an emotional connection to have sex but to have an emotional connection I absolutely need to be having sex with her.


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## EllisRedding

Wolf1974 said:


> Not sure if most men are like this but for me it has always been that I don’t need an emotional connection to have sex but to have an emotional connection I absolutely need to be having sex with her.


Agreed, and i think that is in part with the original article was trying to say. Naturally, anyone (male or female) can have sex at any point without an emotional connection. As well, there is no denying that people have sex because it feels good (mostly). Similar to you though, if I am not having sex with my W, my emotional connection to her takes the hit.


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## personofinterest

EllisRedding said:


> Agreed, and i think that is in part with the original article was trying to say. Naturally, anyone (male or female) can have sex at any point without an emotional connection. As well, there is no denying that people have sex because it feels good (mostly). Similar to you though, if I am not having sex with my W, my emotional connection to her takes the hit.



EXACTLY. And sorry ladies....a man who doesn't feel emotionally connected to you isn't going to be real motivated to romance you, wash the lasagna pan and fold your panties.


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## CharlieParker

EllisRedding said:


> Similar to you though, if I am not having sex with my W, my emotional connection to her takes the hit.


That's me as well. I've started verbalizing @MEM2020's "we need to connect" if/when that happens.


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## EllisRedding

personofinterest said:


> EXACTLY. And sorry ladies....a man who doesn't feel emotionally connected to you isn't going to be real motivated to romance you, wash the lasagna pan and fold your panties.


It could be just me, but the way I look at it, the physical aspect of a relationship is one that is only shared between the couple (hopefully lol). Other aspects of the relationship you can build at certain levels with others (such as family, friends, etc...). To take an aspect of the relationship that can/should only be experienced from within and minimize it is hugely problematic. 

There just seems to be this idea among some that a guy will go after after anything that has one or more legs, and really is just interested in the "release". If that was the case, then in theory I should be able to pet the trouser monster daily (in place of actual sex with my W) and given all other aspects of the relationship are going well, there should be no difference in terms of our connection. That is clearly not the case.


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## Wolf1974

EllisRedding said:


> Agreed, and i think that is in part with the original article was trying to say. Naturally, anyone (male or female) can have sex at any point without an emotional connection. As well, there is no denying that people have sex because it feels good (mostly). Similar to you though, if I am not having sex with my W, *my emotional connection to her takes the hit.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> definitely. No amount of time spent, handholding, cuddling, talking makes me feel as emotionally invested as sex does. Its just a foundation of a healthy relationship


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## MovingForward

I require physical closeness and when I do not get it I require more Physical release I guess to attain physical closeness maybe.


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## Young at Heart

EllisRedding said:


> the physical aspect of your relationship is needed/critical in order to maintain a closeness/connection with your SO? I have seen some women argue that this is a bunch of fooey.
> 
> ...No one should have priority over the other, but should hopefully be working together to meet each others needs.
> 
> https://pairedlife.com/problems/Top-10-Things-Women-Do-To-Destroy-Their-Marriage


I haven't read all 7 pages of posts, but my 2 cents.

I feel it is a very real thing. I do need sex with my wife to feel emotionally connected to her. I would describe it as part physical addiction to bonding sex hormones released in during foreplay and intercourse and part emotional need. In David Schnarch's book Intimacy and Desire he talks about how men in a long term relationship "need" sex to be meaningful.

I take that to mean that if I am in a long term relationship where sex is exclusive, that I need to emotionally feel that sex with my wife is very, very special......otherwise why not have an affair? Yes, there are lots and lots of reasons not to have an affair, but looking at sex with your LT partner/wife as extra special helps you deal with temptations. As such, I feel that men really do want sex with their SO to be special and a way of emotionally connecting.

Now to go back to the physical addiction part. Oxytocin the bonding hormone causes feelings of trust. It is also being used in the treatment by some of PTSD as it not only causes feeling of trust but of relaxation and inhibits negative feelings toward others. When one has sex (or a great massage) that releases lots of Oxytocin, one can relax in the arms of your partner and share deep emotions. That skin to skin contact will further increase Oxytocin production.

https://livelovefruit.com/benefits-of-sleeping-naked/


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