# Question- moved from womens group



## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

Looking for some input here. Tried over in womens group but little response..

Last fall, after two years of denials, finally forced my SO clean with proof of sexual activity. Remember, together 22 years, never married , raised daughter who is out of college and on her own now. Here is link from fall if interested. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/137721-finally.html

Needless to say, I've had a hard time getting over this. But SO asked if I'd go to counseling, and so we have been since the fall, about once every three weeks. It's going okay, but I still feel bad inside - don't know if I can ever trust her again. I kicked her out in November, she now has apartment. Gave her a little money, but she hasn't asked for any more.

Gradually been doing more things together.

Now to my question. I am asking this seriously. I have a young girl that works for me, about half my age- a college student. She's a really good student. She's worked with me about a year now- I am her supervisor. Every so often, I'd text her something- and she'd answer back- and that was it.

Well the other night, I remembered I wanted her tell her something at work the next day. She replied with a joke. Long story short, that led to about 30 back and forths over a two hour period.

Tuesday, a few back and forths. On Wednesday, she was preparing to leave the country for a few weeks- flying overseas. At around 6:30 AM I get a text from her. I respond. Then probably another 25-30 back and forths until her flight in the afternoon.

I didn't expect to hear from her again for a while because of international texting etc. Well, around 9:30 am my time 5 texts from Europe. I responded admittedly.

Nothing sexual, nothing hinting at sex or anything like that. She's an attractive young lady though. But I feel that if my SO saw this she'd blow a 50 amp fuse. But nothing like the sex fill garbage my SO was texting during her affairs.

I'm not trying to be funny- in you opinions' is there anything going on here?- I don't want to get a young innocent woman involved in something - the word around my work is that SO and I are separated- which we are- so maybe she knows that. Or is she just being nice and filling me in on what's happening on her Europe trip?

I'm the owner of our business, but I'm on my way out soon very likely (by my choice). I find it hard to comprehend a girl my daughters age would be interested in me. But I am in good shape, and look a lot younger than I am- but I talk openly to this girl about my daughter so i'm not hiding anything. Anyway, not sure how to read this exactly. 

You can lambast me if necessary. But again, don't want her to get hurt- but not sure if this much contact means anything.

Thoughts please.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Could mean something, or not. A college student? Under 20 years of age? Your subordinate? I'd be cautious just because.

But either way, who cares what your (former?) SO would think?


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Hard to know without seeing the content of the messages. You might just be entertaining her while she is waiting. Or maybe she is feeling you out.

Sounds like you are separated, so I don't see a problem there. Just let everyone know what the score is and proceed however you want to. Quit worrying about your ex's feelings. You already seen how much she consider yours.

The issue is you being this woman's supervisor. If you two do get involved, that can lead to all sorts of legal entanglements if it goes south.

P.S. 
I tried to read up on your previous situations, but you have too many threads spread all over the forum.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Not advisable. First of all, your her boss. Second and think about this real hard. What could you have in common with a girl half your age? 

Now the biggie. How about your kid? Think she would be cool with the old man fooling around with a girl that's about as old as his daughter? IMO, it's not worth it. Let it be and don't do something stupid that you'll regret later.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

6301 said:


> Not advisable. First of all, your her boss. Second and think about this real hard. What could you have in common with a girl half your age?
> 
> Now the biggie. How about your kid? Think she would be cool with the old man fooling around with a girl that's about as old as his daughter? IMO, it's not worth it. Let it be and don't do something stupid that you'll regret later.


Potential lawsuit bro.
She may be setting you up.
Just watch it!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If she was not your employee, no problem, at least legally.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is a pitiful situation but I'm certain is common. 

You supervise this girl? How much time do you take from your employer to daydream and text? This girl can't have much respect for a supervisor who is nickel and diming all day. 

Don't assume she is preparing to throw herself you way when she comes back from Europe. You are going to get so worked up that you may make a fool of yourself. H

Have just a tiny bit of respect for yourself and some loyalty to the people who are paying your salary. Get to work and don't risk a law suit for your employer. 

Ding ding ding *** Sexual harassment suit **** wake up big brain. 

If you are desperate for sexual validation go to bars and pick up woman. Texting for hrs to a girl your daughter age because you think you look like you are half your age is ridiculous. 

Delete the text and stop. Get command of your mind and your life.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

She is looking for something and probably interested/attracted or else she would not be texting. She probably also enjoys the attention as well. 

It's not neutral at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Based on the timeline, and the fact that she's doing most of the texting , I'd say that she seems to be interested in you.

You seem to be in a vulnerable position emotionally so you're second guessing yourself.

Remember she's just a young girl who miht be only wanting the fun and attention so don't put your expectations up very high. Let her do the leading. She must first come out and say exactly what she wants.
Maybe she just wants the experience of dating an older man, society doesn't frown on that arrangement too much, but if the roles were reversed , I would have said to leave her alone.

However , clearly , she's interested in you.
You mentioned leaving your company soon , and the way might clear the way for a relationship of some sort between both of you.

Stop focusing so much on your failed relationship with the ex.

I once played matchmaker for a young girl I knew who was interested in a divorced male friend of mine, who was more than twice her age. He's a well off man , financially stable even after divorce , because he was an oil exec. 

His oldest son was older than her.

Anyway I got them together ,he liked her quite a lot . 
He treated her like a queen.
She moved in to live with him, they lived together for a couple of years ,got married when she was 23 yrs and he built her the house of her dreams.
Since marrying that man, she has never worked a day in her life.

They're still married.

Some younger women are attracted to the emotional and financial stability an older more mature man could bring.

Just to be careful not to cross any ethical and moral lines in your business and personal dealings with her.

Let your expectations be moderate.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Whao... dangerous grounds there, even I wouldn't cross it!
And I cross alot of lines!


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the responses.

I'm very wary of legal issues at work since I supervise her- that is why I guarantee all of you that there would be nothing texted / written of anything resembling a sexual nature. 

And IF- and I mean a big IF- anything ever did come of this (which is highly , highly doubtful) nothing would happen or pertain to the workplace- I'm wise enough to know that. 

I've worked here a lot of years, supervised a lot of college students and other females- and there is NO history of anything- because that's not what I do- and I wouldn't start with this girl.

I guess the reason for my post is trying to sort of discern what is going on. Yes, I like the back and forth, but again a lot of harmless joking and talk and pics about her trip. Probably being in an emotional place now is tuning me in more to this, I'll admit that. But in some ways, after all thats happened, it feels a little bit freeing from the drudgery of SO and I trying to keep things alive after her affair. It's opening my eyes to that as well.

It's hard because you don't have the content of the texts- but I also want to assure my tongue isn't dragging on the ground for this girl. I'm just trying to get a little grasp on what if anything this texting means - "is she interested?" etc.

I think whoever said let her take the lead is right on. I'm pretty much just doing a 1 for 1 text back and forth. If she likes getting my attention I'm okay with that. 

Thanks!

Bod


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

By the way- here is the EEOC definition of sexual harassment-

It's not what I do. I've worked places where I've seen dudes engage in sexual harassment- I don't operate that way and am wise enough to steer clear of anything that would lead it into that category. People in the workplace engage in relationships all the time- including supervisors. It's the tongue draggers that can't control themselves that get sued. I'm not going to operate out of fear (or stupidity) in a sitch like this.

"Sexual Harassment
It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.

Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.

Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer."


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

It is possible she sees you as a sort of father figure in her life because she doesn't have one, or because her father is a poor example of a man. 

I use to have a manager like that. Taught me more about being a man than my dad ever did.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Dude...if you are going over legalities, she already has you hooked, whether she knows it or not, whether you know it or not.

Now you know. 

You WANT to do this. I am not in the rationalization business. Make your own. But you are getting a lot of advice, not only about LEGALITIES, but OPTICS.

This will not look good.

You want to do this right? Leave the company. See if she is still interested. Very likely, her interest will evaporate as quickly as your personal influence over her life does. Not that she is knowingly being like that. An unconscious thing.

But do what you want to do.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> By the way- here is the EEOC definition of sexual harassment-
> 
> It's not what I do. I've worked places where I've seen dudes engage in sexual harassment- I don't operate that way and am wise enough to steer clear of anything that would lead it into that category. People in the workplace engage in relationships all the time- including supervisors. It's the tongue draggers that can't control themselves that get sued. I'm not going to operate out of fear (or stupidity) in a sitch like this.
> 
> ...


Well that's good - you took the time to read through the sexual harassment document. A code of ethics is personal, you don't have to read through any document to find it. 

Have you taken any time to look through your company mission statement? Your job description? You might want to take a look at those too.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Have you taken any time to look through your company mission statement? Your job description? You might want to take a look at those too.


I wrote our mission, vision, values statements- in all cases.

Look, you have an issue that she is younger than me. Texting her is not an unethical thing. If I was texting pics of my body parts, sexting, propositioning her or making not so subtle sexual innuendo, THAT would definitely be an ethical issue- and possibly a legal one. But the point is- I'm NOT doing any of that.

My original post was to sort of determine what if anything was going on here. There is nothing in our policy manual that says employees, managers etc. cannot make contact (even if it is social) with each other.

There is not anything unethical about texting her. I also text an office manager that is my age and female- but not to this extent- she is married- I"m not that type of guy. 

But again I say, THAT is why I posted my question on here is to get input. I'm not the creepy, tongue dragging, stalking, sex talker you may be accustomed to.

Anyway, if it makes you feel better, no texts today at all (so far). 

And for whoever talked about optics - previous post - I ask you "what optics?". There has never been nor is there anything that has happened. Lets take worse case scenario- say she is trying to set me up. Okay- they interview other employees- well NOTHING has happened-so nothing can be reported (unless a conspiracy). Then the interview former employees - NOTHING. There is NO case here.

So, they go to our phones, and pull up text conversations. NO WAY there is any harassment there. Quit living afraid. Again, our conversations- I'd have NO problem having anyone read them- there's nothing there people and there won't be.

That all said, I do get the concern- and that is wise- a lot of bogus lawsuits do succeed. But usually they prove a HISTORY of harassment- and there is none with me. It would take a bunch of people perjuring themselves to get me on that type of charge. 

Regards


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

The fact that you're her boss is a real problem. You could get into some really messy legal trouble here, and who knows, maybe that what she's setting you up for. The only way you should take this farther is when she is no longer an employee.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

While texting is efficient for trnasmitting time sensitive information, it seems the stories on TAM also show what an aphrodisiac it can be.

If you don't want to be drawn into a relationship, simply limit what you will text to that person. A joke should be told face to face. If you receive one don't acknowledge.

Even though I saw a text from my fiance to his EA that he didn't like texting, it didn't stop him from running a relationship alongside ours. And considering some of the things she texted to him, I seriously doubt she would have taken the time to phone him to say it.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> The fact that you're her boss is a real problem. You could get into some really messy legal trouble here, and who knows, maybe that what she's setting you up for. The only way you should take this farther is when she is no longer an employee.


It *could* be a problem. True. IF she made the case that I: (very generally speaking)

-sexually harassed her
-used my position as boss to exert power over her that somehow resulted in her being "harmed"- i.e. given a poor appraisal, not promoted etc.
- ask her out over and over again- and she isn't saying a clear "no".- this could lead to harassment charge.

So- be careful? YES. But if I ever did start dating, etc.- I'd remove myself as her supervisor. 

So, that being said, I agree on the one hand- keep eyes open. But also, don't get involved in anything that harasses her- and guess what? There is no harassment.

It is bosses with little or no ability to read the situation, or that are perverts that cannot keep their comments or actions in check, or who are clueless when a woman doesn't want to go out with them- THAT leads to a problem.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

So nothing untoward has really happened. Then why are you spending so much time and thought about this young lady? 

You claim you don't have interest in her. Yet your so concerned whether she has interest in you.

Stay professional. Limit communication to necessary business and leave it at that.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Bodhitree said:


> So, that being said, I agree on the one hand- keep eyes open. But also, don't get involved in anything that harasses her- and guess what? There is no harassment.
> 
> It is bosses with little or no ability to read the situation, or that are perverts that cannot keep their comments or actions in check, or who are clueless when a woman doesn't want to go out with them- THAT leads to a problem.


Legally, harassment goes way father than that. Looking at someone can literally be taken as harassment. You were texting her at all hours about matters that had nothing to do with work...regardless of the intent here, she has a legal case that you were harassing her, if of course she wants to pursue it. While you are still her boss I would be very careful!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Bodhittree is not in the USA, so you can stow the crazy legalities and ethics.

Here's the story OP, I have trained a number of men who were in their 70's while married to women ranging in age from 35-55, as well as a number of similar age men dating in the 35 and up zone. Not unusual at all. These men aren't all rich, some are almost destitute, but they all have a very youthful outlook and behavior, combined with an excellent physique. And, chicken or egg, they all maintained good T levels, either naturally or otherwise.

Go for it, but let her take the lead in the early stages.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I don't have much to add concerning the younger co-worker, but I would think it would be proper to determine your intentions with your SO before investing in a new relationship.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> I wrote our mission, vision, values statements- in all cases.
> 
> Look, you have an issue that she is younger than me. Texting her is not an unethical thing. If I was texting pics of my body parts, sexting, propositioning her or making not so subtle sexual innuendo, THAT would definitely be an ethical issue- and possibly a legal one. But the point is- I'm NOT doing any of that.
> 
> ...


Well why did you start this thread? Did you want to hear conformation that that young girls are hot for older men? You are not having moral or ethical concerns. You wrote the ethical documents and expectation of all employees except yourself for the company.

Do you need to get a reaction from woman about middle-aged D men being excited about young girls? Your cheating wife is the only one that you need to get a reaction from, right. 

My advice is to take your revenge out on her directly. What other women think is immaterial, your wife is the most important woman for you to impress.


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Bodhittree is not in the USA, so you can stow the crazy legalities and ethics.
> 
> Here's the story OP, I have trained a number of men who were in their 70's while married to women ranging in age from 35-55, as well as a number of similar age men dating in the 35 and up zone. Not unusual at all. These men aren't all rich, some are almost destitute, but they all have a very youthful outlook and behavior, combined with an excellent physique. And, chicken or egg, they all maintained good T levels, either naturally or otherwise.
> 
> *Go for it, but let her take the lead in the early stages*.


This guy gets it. Winner^^^^


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## Bodhitree (Dec 29, 2011)

FormerSelf said:


> I don't have much to add concerning the younger co-worker, but I would think it would be proper to determine your intentions with your SO before investing in a new relationship.



Winner # 2^^^ IMHO


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Bodhittree is not in the USA, so you can stow the crazy legalities and ethics.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Not evident at all from the post. I happen to have a lot of experience about this kind of thing because I have had to fire good employees before because they got involved with co-workers/bosses. Just trying to help.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> This guy gets it. Winner^^^^


You knew that he would come up with that. Post your success. Mac will advise you how to get her. I don't know about her but you will get the best sex you have ever had in your life. 

You needed someone to tell you to get rid of a a woman who cheated on you. You don't even live with her?? You'd better keep this thread going till you nail this girl.

I have no confidence that you will get it right on your own. Mac has enough game for 10 men, he'll let you know what to do.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You know...I get annoyed by posts like this.

So you posted a thread like this in a woman's group (here?) and you didn't get the reaction you wanted. Since you are here, you obviously did not like what the WOMEN had to say.

Not taking a lesson from this, you came HERE. HERE, the men are also...being as kind as possible...diffident. Except for our operational Alpha Lech (Hi Mach!) who makes it his career to look up May September romances and all the variations thereof, we are ranging from the 'WTF are you thinking' to 'dude, this can explode on you REAL BAD.' However, the idea of nailing a 20 year old makes us vicariously hopeful for you. This you take as approval. Riiiighhht.

Instead of questioning why you've only gotten one (1) positive response, you designate that 'the winner'. Got a bit of a learning curve I see...

When challenged, you retreat behind mission statements, EEOC guidelines (Hey Mach...if he is not in the US, why is he using EEOC guidelines to bolster his case? What do you know that I don't)

You then deride the idea of optics.

So, don't tell; show.

Let's take a hypothetical visit to the company canteen:

Female Employee 1: So...have you heard. Mark from IT told me that Mr. Bodhitree and Ms. Hottie have been texting up a storm.

FE 2: REALLY? Isn't he her boss? 

FE 1: I KNOW! And what is it, 30 years between them?

FE 2: So...what are they texting?

FE 1: I dunno. Does he text you?

FE 2: NO! (shocked at the idea) Who started it?

FE 1: Does it matter?

FE 2: Ah...yeah...and she could afford to go to Europe...

FE 1:Well, she's been planning that for a while and Mark says it's all innocent...ish.

FE 2: I remember my old boss, Mr. Jenkins...you know...the one who got the grabby hands. They always START out nice and innocent...

Pause

FE 1: So...when do you thinks she's going to 'earn' her next promotion. 

Significant look...break down in mutual giggles.


But I am pretty much p*ssing up a rope here. I hope it works out for you. I really do. You could use some 'nice' in your life. You can cite every rule and regulation and scrupulously keep to them. 

You will lose at least of modicum of the work forces respect.

This isn't what you want to hear. Hope she is worth the trade off.

Edited to Add:

Don Draper marries his secretary: reactions


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I thought also that third parties to inappropriate relationships in the workplace could also file sexual harassment. That is, they might be losing opportunities at work because _they_ aren't sleeping with the boss.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

People,

He is LEAVING the company soon , voluntarily.

IMO , OP is trying to figure out what's going on in this girl's mind because she's putting down the moves_ on him_. He sees himself in a vulnerable position emotionally because of his failed long term relationship due to his partner's unfaithfulness. 
He's using TAM as a sounding board .

There hasn't been any inappropriate conversations / texts between him and that woman.

Most of the text conversations were started by HER.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> People,
> 
> He is LEAVING the company soon , voluntarily.
> 
> ...



Until he leaves, the optics are very bad. The politics are very bad. Her motives are questionable.

And because he is in the emotionally precarious place he is, his judgment over her level of interest may be off. But I can't see how WE can determine it.

This reminds me of the cleavage thread. It is far to easy to project what we'd like to happen on another person.

This situation is fraught. Just 'fraught'. His choice. His consequences.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Mac has enough game for 10 men, he'll let you know what to do.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my "game" is about zero, since I never needed any game. I just show up and the women approach. That's why I advised him to let her take the lead in the early stages.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> Machiavelli said:
> 
> 
> > Bodhittree is not in the USA, so you can stow the crazy legalities and ethics.
> ...


You're right and I'm wrong. I was reading fast and EEOC was read by me as European whatever, since I've been reading up on Europa's impending implosion lately.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I love the "blow a fifty amp fuse" reference. Is there a little irony in that it comes from "You Can Always Get What You Want" ?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> I love the "blow a fifty amp fuse" reference. Is there a little irony in that it comes from "You Can Always Get What You Want" ?


But if you try sometimes

You just mind find

You get WHAT YOU NEED!


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## Pufferfish (Sep 25, 2013)

Bodhitree said:


> Nothing sexual, nothing hinting at sex or anything like that. She's an attractive young lady though. But I feel that if my SO saw this she'd blow a 50 amp fuse. But nothing like the sex fill garbage my SO was texting during her affairs.


Dear bodhittree

Might have missed it. The young lady aside, what are your intentions with your "SO". Are you looking to get back with her? Only ask since you were going to counseling. 

??


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Where is he? He disappeared. Maybe he didn't like the answers.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

Why is it so many men have to go after a woman that clearly inappropriate for them just because she shows them some interest?

She's involved in your company, she's immature and too young for you and you have unresolved issues with your current partner.

If she shows you the slightest bit of interest you don't have to jump on it like a slobbering dog.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my "game" is about zero, since I never needed any game. I just show up and the women approach. That's why I advised him to let her take the lead in the early stages.


Damn Mac 
Reading posts on TAM makes me realize that I lived and still live a very sheltered life.


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## Honeybee2 (May 3, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> I don't have much to add concerning the younger co-worker, but I would think it would be proper to determine your intentions with your SO before investing in a new relationship.


Yes, forget about everything else loaded up here and get back to your basic question regarding your significant other: Yes, this is emotional cheating and every time you answer a text, you are taking a step away from the SO. So you need to decide if you want to stay with SO or leave and if you want to stay, stop anything else.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my "game" is about zero, since I never needed any game. I just show up and the women approach. That's why I advised him to let her take the lead in the early stages.





Catherine602 said:


> Damn Mac
> Reading post on TAM makes me realize that I lived and still live a very sheltered life.


I really ought to rephrase that: I didn't need PUA game to bag them, but I needed LTR game to keep the ones I thought were keepers.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Bodhitree said:


> It *could* be a problem. True. IF she made the case that I: (very generally speaking)
> 
> -sexually harassed her
> -used my position as boss to exert power over her that somehow resulted in her being "harmed"- i.e. given a poor appraisal, not promoted etc.
> ...


Well you're clearly arguing pretty hard on this one so clearly you WANT her to want you.

Nothing we say here will change your mind so....ya.


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