# emotional affair?



## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

I was told this might be a better place to post this. 

If a man and woman talk every day, pretty much all day in a private chat (when they are part of a group chat), is there some kind of emotional attachment? There is borderline flirting. Both have significant others. 

Simply, does a man invest this much time into a woman he is not somewhat attached to emotionally, or interested in sexually?

Perhaps I need to add more. My husband has been chatting with this woman for about a month and a half now. I have let it go for the most part, but up about a couple weeks ago I got kinda frustrated with him being glued to his phone. He also plays a game on there (which is how they met).

I probably wouldn't have ever known she existed had he not pointed her out to me one night a couple weeks ago. he mentioned she was an attention "*****" always posting new pictures of herself. Only girl in "guild". 

He also made comments about how she was nothing but drama (2 things my husbands stays far far away from). 

My husband is also not the social type. He is the type to comment here and there, but generally thats it. 

Well she was leaving her "guild" and helping a new one. I thought good.. I had noticed that this girl was the reason he was on his phone so much. 

He followed her over to the new guild. Says he felt like he owed her (she help him recover his account when it got lost) and because she was nice to him when his dad died. I was the one here with him, ect, she only offered to talk if he needed it. 

After I noticed her phone number on his phone, I got really suspisious. Now I have confirmed that it was not a big deal, she had given it to him so he could call her if she was needed during "guild wars"

But before I knew why, I snooped.. This is how I found out that they spend so much time alone in chat. I dont find anything GLARING, but it's just a hunch. Its flirty, only a couple midlely sexy flirts (he made a comment about being behind on her work, to which she commented, thats not the only thing that will be behind me. He responded by calling her a perv. Another comment after she gave him her phone number, he replied " better watch it, Im gonna drunk dial you some day" She responded, "I hope so")

There is a lot of mild "pet names" Favorite mamma bear, mamma bear, among others. No babe or anything like that. 

pokes to get each others attention when they have gone a whole 8 hours without speaking (sleep). She also asked him his work schedule. 

What I deem as fishing for "interest" such as, am I the only guy you talk to in private, types of things. She replies that he is. He says, I feel special. 

Not a lot that has technically stepped over the line YET.

But I asked him to stop talking to her a few days ago, and he got very angry, telling me I was controlling, ect. The fight got so bad that by the end of the night he told me he hated me, and hated living here. 

Last night it hit a head. I could see (I could see the texting) that while we were arguing, he was getting shorter and shorter with me (snippy) while talking to her in between. 

I finally got angry, and called him out. BUT I lied on one thing because I didnt want him to know I could see the texts. so I told him her BF and I talked (who is also in their guild) and he was not very happy with the flirtatiousness and frequency of them speaking. 

His tune changed immediately, he immediately texted and apologized to the BF, saying that he hoped he wasnt offended, and if he wanted him to back off he would, That he and the girl were just friends. This made me a bit furious, because this guy is a stranger, but when I told him it bothered me, he would just get angry with me, tell me I was jealous and over-reacting. 

I ended up confessing to him that I hadnt spoken to the guy, and that I had been watching their texts. 

he swears he has no feelings for this girl, he was sweet talking with me last night, told me if he was being flirty he didnt mean it. Seemed to have a reasonable explanation for everything. 

But my gut is telling me, he isnt being honest with himself about this.

so... Do men invest this much time and it truly is innocent. 

I should mention, we have a lot of stressors at home right now. He recently found out his 16 year old child, really isnt his. Im in a custody fight with my ex. My mother in law has overstayed her welcome by at least 6 months now, with no end date in sight, My husband has been working 84 hours a stretch with only a couple days off in between, AND his father (whom he had no contact with over the last 7-9 years) just died a little over a month ago.

Oh forgot to add, the BF ended up texting me a few times. Very not nice texts at all. I apologized to him, for lying. it didnt cause any problems between him and his girl. 

But he kept texting me, about losing a friend, that Im a jealous person and basically he hopes he leaves me, on and on. 

I showed it to my husband. 

basically he just apologized to the BF for the drama. Thats it.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

It might be innocent; it might not.

You should get a hold of this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503

It deals very well with this very issue.

This sort of relationship is often the gateway to a full blown PA. A close relationship with a member of the opposite sex is fine, but you need to work out boundaries for the both of you.

Get that book. Have a read of it together and talk about how it might apply to you both.

Don't, however, ignore this.

Edit: Wait, who has texted you to complain about him losing his "friend"???


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

Chris989 said:


> It might be innocent; it might not.
> 
> You should get a hold of this book:
> 
> ...


The BF, but that was before they talked and my husband apologized for the drama


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## me2pointoh (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm sorry you're going through this. When you catch it in the early stages, there's a lot of resentment and indignation because they haven't "technically" done anything wrong and they don't want to believe they can be that person. Bottom line is if it makes you feel uncomfortable then he needs to shift his priorities. Not Just Friends is an excellent book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Really hard to say whether or not there is more to it, but, I will say that you caught it early on before it became something it really shouldn't.

By that I am saying that this was the beginning of him withdrawing from his marriage to you and starting a new relationship with her, and yes from my experience this can be done almost completely without conscious decision, they emotionally detach and have already formed attachment to the other person and bingo you have a winner.

The book "Not Just Friends" is fantastic and will help you both immensely to get over this and to help him understand where he went wrong and possibly why.

If this is his first offence, let him off with a warning but be sure to follow it up with good clear communication of boundaries etc, please get and read the book, it will become your marriages bible!!!


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

ConfusedKarma said:


> *Not a lot that has technically stepped over the line YET.*
> 
> But I asked him to stop talking to her a few days ago, and he got very angry, telling me I was controlling, ect. The fight got so bad that by the end of the night he told me he hated me, and hated living here.
> 
> Last night it hit a head. I could see (I could see the texting) that while we were arguing, he was getting shorter and shorter with me (snippy) while talking to her in between.


He stepped over the line a long time ago. 

Given the choice, he will choose her over you. He stated it clearly in the argument of a few days ago and then showed you last night by actually texting her as a means of ending his conversation with you.

I am so sorry you're here. Please stay. Listen to and weigh the advice given. Some of it's gonna seem utterly counter-intuitive but there's none better (that I've found) on the web.

As far as I've seen, it's always been correct.

Just remember, even when it gets harsh, that almost everyone here is a veteran of this battle and everyone wants the best possible outcome for *you* whether you decide to try to save the marriage or not.


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## Heidi2005 (Oct 27, 2013)

I had a similar script from SBXH last fall. He was playing Word feud with a "friend" he met while playing the game. After digging, I discovered lots of daily texts and phone calls with the "friend". We went to MC. He told me he stopped communicating. Around Christmas, I realized he was still in communication via kiks messenger. He emotionally detached from the marriage and asked for a divorce. I don't know if your spouse is or not. Seems like your spouse is treading a fine line and it warrants further discussion and digging.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

lostmyreligion said:


> He stepped over the line a long time ago.
> 
> Given the choice, he will choose her over you. He stated it clearly in the argument of a few days ago and then showed you last night by actually texting her as a means of ending his conversation with you.
> 
> ...



:iagree:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

No matter what happens, we'll be here for you.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi ConfusedKarma, 

I don't have a lot of time at the moment to write, but I wanted to take a little time and explain some things to you. 

I'm a person who was a Disloyal Spouse in my past about 4 years ago, and I am also a gamer now, so I understand about meeting people in games, etc. I hope I can shed some light on things. 

First, I want to define being faithful, because that definition then explains what being unfaithful is and is not. When people get married, somewhere in the vows is a promise to "forsake all others"...and ALL is a pretty inclusive word. It means every single other person in the whole wide world: ALL. So I define faithfulness as giving 100% of your affection and loyalty to your spouse and only your spouse. If you give a little big of affection to someone else--that's being unfaithful because you have not forsaken ALL. If you some portion of your loyalty to someone above your spouse--that's being unfaithful because have not forsaken ALL. So now we have that clear. If he is giving her some affection (even little flirty bits) and is choosing her above you (like for guild time or for not ending his friendship) then that IS unfaithfulness and it's not you being a controlling jerk. Okay?

Second, here's what I bet. You two were once madly in love. You both felt GREAT when you were with each other, couldn't keep your hands off each other, wanted to spend every possible minute together, had a GREAT time with each other, and both felt like the other really liked you... I mean "Hey this person LIKES ME!" So you two got serious, got married, and here comes Life: you got a mortgage and debts; you had kids; money was...well like money is, never enough; his father died; mother-in-law moved in; there's trouble with the exes; there's DNA issues with one kid..... and the two of you went from having fun together and liking each other to fighting over it all. You don't smile when he comes home; he doesn't want to spend time talking to you. You haven't worn sexy underwear in years; and he just buries his issues and pretends everything is "okay" when it OBVIOUSLY isn't!! 

And right about then, he plays his game to get away from it all a little. In the game, he can be a great warrior, defeat foes, and be a little larger than he is in real life. In the guild, he can have the most achievements, the highest DPS, or be the best PVPer. And without even asking for it, in the game, he's admired and people think he's awesome because of whatever his specialty is. Real life=mad wife and a sucky existence. Game=scantily clad healers and he's got the highest gear score. Soooooo...he gets a little ego repair in the game. 

Enter stage right the girl. Now as you can tell, I play games but I don't play them to prey on guys--I play them to have a recreation that I share with my husband and because I personally enjoy them. But there are lots of gamer girls out there who, I'm telling ya, know exactly how to wrap a guy up in her chains and prey upon his weaknesses to get exactly what she wants. I'm here to tell you right now, the girl to whom your hubby is talking is one of those girls. I've seen HUNDREDS of them and here's the MO. Be a badass player. Compliment a guy. Flirt with him and see if he's receptive. If he is, flirt pretty hard and see if he's receptive. If he is, be outright sexual and see if he's receptive. If he is, use sex to get whatever it is that you want (build my guild, be my conquest...whatever it is). 

I've been in your husband's shoes. He wasn't looking for an affair. He was looking for some RELIEF! He was looking for a respite from the pressure and maybe some fun. And yeah I'm not saying he's an angel or that he's not responsible, but I will bet you money he just was not prepared to hear from another girl (who was a female person in a guy's world and pretty good) that SHE admired HIM. He probably didn't have his guard up and nibbled at the bait...and being a fisherman, she hooked him and reeled him in!

Soooo...here is my best advice. Seriously. He is already being unfaithful because he is being loyal to her and "their friendship" rather than being loyal to you. He is giving her affection and flirting that belongs only to you. He is 100% responsible for choosing to do that and for falling into that trap, and he is going to have to be the one to end that friendship, leave the guild, and never speak to her again!! 

However, I would strongly suggest maybe you read this post to him or at least ask him if that's how it was for him (in a way). I bet you he misses the days when you and he were having fun, laughing, enjoying each other, liking each other, couldn't keep your hands off each other and wanting to be together all the time. If he is willing to end the "friendship" and leave the "guild"...are you willing to be the girl you were when he fell in love with you? Are you willing to find that girl inside you who looked at him and smiled when he came into the room? The one who thought he was just the most handsome guy EVER? The one who wanted to do stuff with him and ran off and did CRAZY stuff now and then? The one who loved touching him, kissing him, and having him touch and kiss you? The one who told him out loud all those crazy, girlish romantic things? The one who sort of saw a hero under his normal work clothes? 

See... this isn't about you being "wrong" or him being "wrong" although he is  This is about Life slowly but surely sneaking up on you two and driving a wedge between you. Don't beat him up and don't beat yourself up. It happened. Now, remove the wedge.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

I guess I'll copy in what I asked in your other identical thread.



ConfusedKarma said:


> He recently found out his 16 year old child, really isnt his.


Hey, wait. What? You're saying that you had an affair 16 years ago and became pregnant? And your husband just found out?


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

MSP said:


> I guess I'll copy in what I asked in your other identical thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, wait. What? You're saying that you had an affair 16 years ago and became pregnant? And your husband just found out?


No... It was another girl, back when he was 17, it dictated his career in life (IE) going into the navy.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> Hi ConfusedKarma,
> 
> I don't have a lot of time at the moment to write, but I wanted to take a little time and explain some things to you.
> 
> ...


This about sums it up. Im not even mad at him, because I understand that this is what it is. Im frustrated that I cant make him see this. If I cant make him see, and he thinks im just being jealous, he will continue down that road with this girl. FYI I was a gamer too, and I know whos out there. We both used to game together (its how we met).


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## ConflictionKarma (Apr 17, 2014)

I feel like this post needs a little context. First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for your well thought out and helpful posts.

I am ConfusedKarma's husband. She has neglected to add in some fairly crucial details to her post.

I'll begin with the most important, which would be her own emotional affair which has led to more than year long obsession with one of my co workers. During this time, I begged her to let it go. To let him go and she wouldn't. He now has a pregnant girlfriend, yet to this day I can not mention his name in her presence or it sends her on an hours long tirade. To answer the question, no this isn't retribution. Merely to show her propensity to project her own sense of guilt on things I'm doing.

She was recently taken off of anti depressant medication. The timing happens to coincide nearly perfectly to when she seems to have seen a mysterious shift in behavior from me.

She glosses over the fact that she goes through my phone regularly and to get the information that directly led to this post, felt it necessary to hack into a chat app that I use. Her lack of trust and over-bearing demeanor has led acquaintances to comment that they're surprised I don't suffocate where I stand. I have never been unfaithful, never even come close. She says her lack of trust stems from previous relationships in which her partner has been unfaithful.

As to the subject at hand. When I said I was unhappy, it was the truth. We are in rough shape. Am I escaping into a game and into a conversation with someone who doesn't immediately ask me about court cases, marital problems or when my mother is moving out? Probably. I'm looking for something to keep me going for just one more day. To make it bearable. So that the next time I come home, I don't just drive by the house and keep going.

I wish I could say that I can't wait to hear the responses from all of you, but the only reason I'm here is because my wife sent me a link to this post to show me that a bunch of internet strangers think I'm a jerk instead of actually talking to and trying to understand her own husband.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Who cares who is the chicken or the egg. You are behaving badly and it must stop immediately.

We can understand you to the nines and still condemn your unacceptable behaviour. 

If you are so unhappy you know what you need to do.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Right I agree :iagree: and this is coming from someone who has "been there, done that". 

If you are unhappy, you don't fix unhappy by adding a heap more of trouble on top of your unhappiness, and trust me ConflictKarma, that's what an affair is: a HEAP more trouble!

I'm serious! I get it. Life with her is no breeze and add in there the bills, the mother-in-law and her own emotional affair, and it's easy to see why you want a little positive attention in the game! But here's the thing: if you're not happy, work on fixing the things that are making you unhappy instead of adding more sh*t on top of the sh*t you already live in! 

Like for example, I have no clue if you want your mom living there or not, but here's my guess: you love your mom and she needed you, but you are a grown man now and have a family of your own. Mom is a grown woman too...and the two women in your life are clashing! Time to set mom straight and tell her "I love ya but we need another arrangement. Let's sit and figure out how to get you on your own." Now maybe she needs a room mate or a live-in helper, but heck--hire a college student for "free room and board" to do a few household chores and mom is golden! AND you've fixed #1 of 50 things making you unhappy. 

Let's say your wife really is driving you nuts and you don't like the woman she's become. First, I'll just say that I suspect you're doing this a little bit "Well X from the guild really GETS me and my own wife doesn't even! All she does is yell at me! X can see how hard I'm trying and appreciates me, and my own wife, who's supposed to love me, doesn't!" Here's the problem: X only see you as your in-game persona and maybe some chatting and internet life, and she doesn't see you in your holey underwear with your bad morning breath and she doesn't have to live with your momma! Comparing your wife with your gamer girl isn't apples to apples cuz your wife has had to put up with way more of your warts than gamer girl has! So stop comparing them, and start working on your marriage. 

Instead of putting the time and energy into flirting around with gamer girl, put that energy into your family and your wife. If she doesn't come around, and in real life--with no one else in your life-- you just do not like being with her, do the honorable thing and be done. Divorce her. OR putting the time and effort into her, she enjoys the flirting and playing around and that flame is re-ignited again--that old one you guys had back in the day. Either way, you are a man of honor and character, AND you're either free or you're with a woman who loves you and makes you happy. Problem #2 of 50 solved!

If you work too many hours at your job or you went into some field you hate because your 16 yo daughter was born and now she's not even your kid...don't say to yourself "I'm unhappy so I'm going to fix that by destroying my marriage and breaking up my family"! That doesn't fix it. Instead, figure out the daughter thing. I mean I don't know about you, but if you loved her enough to pick work you dislike just to take care of her, it sounds to me like you love her and thought of yourself as her father. Did you raise her? Did you take care of her? Okay--some other person was the sperm donor. Think of it like a sperm bank and you were the DAD! And move on. Don't blame HER for being in a field of work you hate. Just be the man who loved and raised her. Problem #3 of 50 down.

If you are in a field of work that you hate, trust me--spending your attention, time and energy on some chick in a game isn't going to solve that. Now this day and age, sometimes an adult has to suck it up and do what they don't always "enjoy"--after all work is called work because it's work and not play. But seriously if you HATE it, go back to school, get trained in what you LOVE to do, quit the job you hate, and do what you love! That's not gaming all day! That's not "painting"--you have to take responsibility for taking care of yourself and the family you built--but hey if you hate accounting and you are an accountant, go to school to be a doctor and become a freaking doctor! Or a Physician Assistant if you don't want to be an intern and resident. Problem #5 of 50 fixed!

Well...do you get my point? Flirting with fire does not fix ANY of these problems OR make you "happy". If you want to be happy, your wife is not going to "make you happy." YOU have to change what's making you unhappy in order to be happy.


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## ConflictionKarma (Apr 17, 2014)

Thank you for your reply, AffairCare.

To answer a few of your questions. Yes, I would love my mother to be out of my house. The space is too small and cramped for our family as is. She just began working and wants to purchase an inexpensive mobile home. I brought up the idea of purchasing it ourselves to help speed the process along and let her live in it for the cost of lot rent. OP doesn't want to put the money out for it. If anybody else has any suggestions other than just wait for her to save up the money on her own, I'm all ears.

As far as my "emotional affair." It was not mentioned that I tried to include my wife in this group as this woman and her boyfriend have a lot in common with how my wife and I met. I thought it would be nice if we could have a common interest that I was really in to. She left the group saying she "wanted me to have a little me time." This post appeared less than 24 hours later.

Has there been a little friendly flirting? Maybe, but nothing I wouldn't have done right in front of my wife. I have agreed to cut out the pm's since that seems to be her main source of aggravation. When I thought they didn't want me around anymore, I was bummed, but it wasn't the end of the world.
She determined that I was having an emotional affair by hacking my chat account and taking things said out of context.

If this was the first time my wife has had a problem with and tried to chase away a friend of mine, this wouldn't be an issue. It's that it has become a serial issue. Having a conversation with anyone, even my mother, can result in her throwing a tv tray across the room. Even taking the guy out who loaned me the money to bury my dad out for a beer to thank him caused her to storm out of the house and a big blow out when she came back. If she would have taken the time to listen to me when I said that it's not the person you don't want me talking to that I'm upset about, but her controlling nature that she put into this post, we'd probably have it hashed out by now.

All in all, I love my wife desperately. Our road has been uphill from the start, but we're both still here and that's got to say something. I just wish she'd spend less time trying to get justification from perfect strangers and a little more time trying to understand where I'm coming from.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

ConflictionKarma said:


> To answer a few of your questions. Yes, I would love my mother to be out of my house. The space is too small and cramped for our family as is. She just began working and wants to purchase an inexpensive mobile home. I brought up the idea of purchasing it ourselves to help speed the process along and let her live in it for the cost of lot rent. OP doesn't want to put the money out for it. If anybody else has any suggestions other than just wait for her to save up the money on her own, I'm all ears.


Here's my suggestion on the situation with your live-in mother.
Now that your mother is working, she needs to rent a room at someone else's house. There are lots of people out there who will rent a room out of their house for a small amount of money.

Your wife should not have to PAY MONEY in order to get your mother out of the house. Your wife should not have to wait for your mother to save money to leave the house.

What does your mother do to "earn her keep" around your house? Does she cook and clean for you and your wife? Does she pay rent? If I were your wife, I would be going INSANE!!!

You need to be focused on getting your mother out of the house, but instead you are spending your time talking to strangers playing a game. Tit-for-tat, your wife is now talking to strangers on a message board.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

I did not expect my husband to post. Yes about a year ago, he and I decided to have a little experiment. We decided to allow each other another person to (text) flirt with, to spice up our sex life. We each had one. His was some girl in a few states away, but mine unfortunatly was a mutual friend of ours. This eventually led to a threesome. There were no issues from the threesome, and it only happened once. I did get emotionally attached to this guy, which is why I can see the signs with the situation. 

I know that is why I ended up on medication (the lowest dose of zoloft). I was confused and angry and emotional in the heat of it. I couldnt understand how I could be that person, couldnt understand why I would have feelings for another guy when I didnt love my husband any less. 

I have asked on several occasions for my husband to just cut him out completly (difficult because they work together) or not mention anything about him, because I wanted distance and to forget he even exsited. I did not want to keep hurting my husband, and I knew that was the only way, out of sight out of mind. 

It didn't happen, my husband would still bring things up about him, so I would comment. This is the obsession. This is how it has been for close to 6 months now. Yes when he brings him up, I get angry, and wish my husband would just stop talking to him altogether. the guy has actually disrespected me and been very cruel at times. 

But, wait.. see Im defending. I know that I hurt my husband, and Ive apologized, Ive tried to do what I can to cut this guy out completely so that he isnt brought up. 

My husband sill talks to the girl on occasion (which I dont have a problem with because I know that went to a level it should, friends.) They only talk on occasion, and its appropriate talk. 

But I asked them both yesterday, because they almost have me convinced I am over reacting, that to compromise if they could refrain from private chat, and only speak in officer or guild chat for a while. They both agreed. I did tell my husband he could send her a couple private texts about the situation (WHY, because they had me convinced I was over-reacting). I talked to this girl quite a bit yesterday and told her how I feel about the situation. 

I would think that if someone thought they were causing an issue in a marriage, that she might back off? 

They pretty much spoke all day again yesterday in PRIVATE chat. No, I didnt snoop. I heard the damn thing ding this morning and made a comment, so my husband wanted to show me one text he sent her. A text telling her that they should refrain from PM's until I call down. This was this morning, after them texting all night in PM. He thought that one text would make me happy, but since he handed over his phone, I scrolled to see how much they had talked. 

He said, it wasnt that much. It was before he even freaking left to work, here with me, and all night. The only real gaps were from 8-10 (when I was speaking to her). Another gap from like 2am-like 6am. Of course, I dont know if they were talking in other chats, I didnt look.

I told this girl that I definitely think there is an issue, and that she is directly related. She says she is sorry. She is being quite nice. 

If you know a marriage is in trouble and your causing it at the moment, do you stick around and continue?

Also, husband has gotten very chummy all of a sudden with the BF.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

ConflictionKarma said:


> Thank you for your reply, AffairCare.
> 
> To answer a few of your questions. Yes, I would love my mother to be out of my house. The space is too small and cramped for our family as is. She just began working and wants to purchase an inexpensive mobile home. I brought up the idea of purchasing it ourselves to help speed the process along and let her live in it for the cost of lot rent. OP doesn't want to put the money out for it. If anybody else has any suggestions other than just wait for her to save up the money on her own, I'm all ears.
> 
> ...


A lot was taken out of context. Yes I have an issue paying to get his mom out. She has taken advantage of us for 9 months now, they my husband would also admit to, and she has done this to many others in the past. We dont have the money to get her out, she has several "guy" friends who give her money, I dont see why they cannot help her out. 

I have asked him to stop talking to the "guy" we had a threesome with, or at least refrain from telling me about their conversations and small talk. No, I dont like them being so chummy. My husband "hopes" one day the 4 of us (friend and GF we had threesome with) and us can all hang out again. 

I also have to mention that this is what has been thrown at me lately. Ive apologized many times, Ive tried to be a better wife to him. I DONT bring up this guy unless he brings him up first.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

ConflictionKarma said:


> Thank you for your reply, AffairCare.
> 
> To answer a few of your questions. Yes, I would love my mother to be out of my house. The space is too small and cramped for our family as is. She just began working and wants to purchase an inexpensive mobile home. I brought up the idea of purchasing it ourselves to help speed the process along and let her live in it for the cost of lot rent. OP doesn't want to put the money out for it. If anybody else has any suggestions other than just wait for her to save up the money on her own, I'm all ears.
> 
> ...


A lot was taken out of context. Yes I have an issue paying to get his mom out. She has taken advantage of us for 9 months now, they my husband would also admit to, and she has done this to many others in the past. We dont have the money to get her out, she has several "guy" friends who give her money, I dont see why they cannot help her out. 

I have asked him to stop talking to the "guy" we had a threesome with, or at least refrain from telling me about their conversations and small talk. No, I dont like them being so chummy. My husband "hopes" one day the 4 of us (friend and GF we had threesome with) and us can all hang out again. 

I also have to mention that this is what has been thrown at me lately. Ive apologized many times, Ive tried to be a better wife to him. I DONT bring up this guy unless he brings him up first. 

and what he fails to realize (my husband) is I also loved him madly, even as I was having feelings for this other guy. I just see it, I see him doing what I was... .


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Let me make this simple.
Hubby you are flirting with another woman. Cut it the fvck out. Yes this means game chicky.

Wife. I am sensing drama creation. Cut it the fvck out. Sending a link to the thread... Really?

Threesomes? Spicing up?

Or just divorce already.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

With every new post my eyebrows shot up higher. They're now behind my ears.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

BTW thinking that threesome is not an issue? Men are by nature physically territorial and watching another man inside your wife will affect 99+% of men in a bad bad way.

And his EA flirt with a girl in another state. Sexting right? Women are emotionally territorial. This will affect women in a bad bad way.

Let this thread stand as an example of why you dont bring more people into your marriage.

Suggestion: Set a date for mom to get her trailer. This will allow wifee to count the days down.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Let me make this simple.
> Hubby you are flirting with another woman. Cut it the fvck out. Yes this means game chicky.
> 
> Wife. I am sensing drama creation. Cut it the fvck out. Sending a link to the thread... Really?
> ...


I sent the link hoping he might see if a lot of others saw the same things, perhaps he might at least start to. Didnt know it would send him the ability to post.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> BTW thinking that threesome is not an issue? Men are by nature physically territorial and watching another man inside your wife will affect 99+% of men in a bad bad way.
> 
> And his EA flirt with a girl in another state. Sexting right? Women are emotionally territorial. This will affect women in a bad bad way.
> 
> ...


As far as the threesome, everything was fine after it. It was attachment that caused problems. He actually wanted to do again (different guy) he enjoyed the experience a lot. Its a fantasy of his to watch another guy with his wife. 

The attachemnt was a good 3 months following the 3some. There has been nothing for a good 6 months now. The only time I talk about the guy, is when my husband brings him up. 

And I agree, I wont even talk to another guy more than passing comments online anymore. I wont put myself in that position again.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> BTW thinking that threesome is not an issue? Men are by nature physically territorial and watching another man inside your wife will affect 99+% of men in a bad bad way.
> 
> And his EA flirt with a girl in another state. Sexting right? Women are emotionally territorial. This will affect women in a bad bad way.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Amen.

Suggest you get some MC.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Quite a complicated situation you guys have. You need to unravel this a bit and focus on what is important.

#1 - Be aware of yourself. When you feel strong emotions, look closely into yourself to determine what is really bothering you. Our defenses often lead us on wild goose chases. Do some deep breathing. Try to relax and really figure out what are you feeling so strongly about.
#2 - Make your relationship your priority. Be honest about the strong emotions (be it infidelity triggers, insecurity, resentment over mom, whatever it is). But honest doesn't mean brutal. Be understanding of each others differences. If you can calmly articulate what is important, then maybe, just maybe you can find a solution together that will work.
#3 - Cut out the toxic people. Toxic is anyone who threatens your relationship. There should be no threesomes. I hear some people can make it work, but they are in the minority. Most of the time they create a rift in the reationship that is hard (near impossible) to repair. If someone talks bad about your spouse, correct them. Don't complain to others about your spouse. If you have a problem, look at number one, then honestly and calmly discuss it with your spouse (#2). If you feel you are not making any progress then seek out counselling. Don't whine to friends. 
#4 If after careful consideration of these 3 points you still have issues removing toxic people due to work or living situations. Be drastics. Quit the game, move or change jobs (or all three). Do what it takes to distance youself from the things and people that are driving you apart.

I gamed a lot (okay too much). First Everquest then WoW. It can be pretty damn tempting to log on and tune out of lifes problems. I found it much easier to log onto the game and not confront what was going on in my life. Between the two games I lost 5 years of my life. I do mean lost. I have nothing to show for those 5 years. My house, my job and my relationships all deteriated over that time. Quiting the game was not easy. I had to walk away from guildmates who had become friends. I had to find new hobbies that wouldn't just become new diversions. 

It sounds like you have both made some mistakes. Own your part, be honest about what bothers you. Put your relationship first for a while. If you both do this, I think you will be fine. If you continue to hide the things that bother you, or escape and not deal with your issues. Then it's going to get much worse.

Good luck!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Both of you opened a Pandora's box when you made the choice to have sex with a third party - even if it was agreed to. Some married couples may be able to handle that, most can't. 

It's obvious to me that you're now experiencing the consequences from that choice. Jealousy, unclear boundaries, he said - she said; none of that is surprising. 

Both of you need to go to counseling to have a chance to save your marriage


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## inman (Apr 17, 2014)

We can call it what we want. Labels don't really matter in my opinion. If a significant other is getting attention and affection from someone else it's a problem. It may be ill-intended. They may both be oblivious to the risk, but the bottom line is it's not healthy for the relationship. It leads to confused feelings and that will lead to serious trouble.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Quite a complicated situation you guys have. You need to unravel this a bit and focus on what is important.
> 
> #1 - Be aware of yourself. When you feel strong emotions, look closely into yourself to determine what is really bothering you. Our defenses often lead us on wild goose chases. Do some deep breathing. Try to relax and really figure out what are you feeling so strongly about.
> #2 - Make your relationship your priority. Be honest about the strong emotions (be it infidelity triggers, insecurity, resentment over mom, whatever it is). But honest doesn't mean brutal. Be understanding of each others differences. If you can calmly articulate what is important, then maybe, just maybe you can find a solution together that will work.
> ...


My husband and I met on WOW, and it sucked a lot of life for us away as well. I found other more productive outlets (photography and painting). 

We are going to counseling, today actually. We had our first appointment last week.

I do own up to what I did, and the hurt I caused him, but we have never really talked about it. Its always been thrown at me when he is angry, or like now (by husband) to shut me up for being a hypocrite. To be clear, that whole things with me and the other guy, it's over. We do not talk, other than on very rare occasions. (husband does work with him). And when my husbands father died, I sought him out for advice, since it was exactly how he had lost his wife. (She cheated on him after her mom died). It was a brief talk, I showed my husband everything we said.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ConflictionKarma said:


> I feel like this post needs a little context. First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for your well thought out and helpful posts.
> 
> I am ConfusedKarma's husband. She has neglected to add in some fairly crucial details to her post.
> 
> ...


Yes, she lost some moral ground, but it doesn't make your actions "more right" or "okay because she did it first" at all. So, let me get this right. You didn't like it and now you are doing it? 

Okay, now go ahead and passive aggressively insult us.

PS: Duly noted that you didn't deny her calling your actions an EA, you just minimized. Just saying, that's what cheaters do.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

ConfusedKarma said:


> We are going to counseling, today actually. We had our first appointment last week.


Good for you guys. I look forward to hearing how it goes.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Good for you guys. I look forward to hearing how it goes.


Didnt go well, he pretty much attacked me the whole time and took over the session. 

After I tried to ask him a question and he yelled at me, so I would say this one was a big failure.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You came here for help and then immediately sent the link to your husband, IMO, to show him you were right. He then posts to show us he is right.. 

You both want to win at marriage and that needs to stop. Playing one up is a ridiculous way to live.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

ConfusedKarma said:


> Didnt go well, he pretty much attacked me the whole time and took over the session.
> 
> 
> 
> After I tried to ask him a question and he yelled at me, so I would say this one was a big failure.



The therapist let him? Time to change therapists.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

You both had/are having an EA. 

No room in a marriage for a spouse to be in constant/daily contact with someone of the opposite sex. OW gave you emotional support? Makes it worse. EAs are about bonding. Flirting? Nope. Not OK either.

Any spouse is obliged to snoop if they suspect an affair. The way you have been carrying on with your 'friend' would have been more than enough to justify it. 

Your 'friend' doesn't talk about your family problems because she isn't your wife who has to live with all those problems. 

In short you don't have to put the garbage out with your 'friend'. 

If you want to stay together you both need to stop having EAs and justifying them. 

Or leave your wife and get together with OW or another woman 

OP you could leave your husband and find someone else. 

There are only 2 choices. All you both have to do is decide.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

ConfusedKarma said:


> Didnt go well, he pretty much attacked me the whole time and took over the session.
> 
> After I tried to ask him a question and he yelled at me, so I would say this one was a big failure.


Okay here's one thing I worry about: I would be surprised if a trained counselor would sit back and let one spouse "attack" the other for a whole session. I can't see any way that would be helpful to the marriage, and I'm not even a licensed counselor, just a coach! I would NEVER let that continue in an appointment!

So that leaves two options: 
1) Either there really was a session-long attack and the counselor did nothing (in which case, I'd change counselors ASAP) -OR-
2) It wasn't an "attack" ... it was ConflictedKarma stating his case, how he really sees it, thinks, and feels and ConfusedKarma FEELS attacked because he doesn't see it, think and feel like she wants him to. In fact, he vigorously disagrees!

My concern is this, Confused. Is your husband able to have his own opinion that is 100% different than yours and not be "wrong" or "the bad guy" or the enemy? Are the two of you able to be entirely different people but his preferences and feelings are just as legitimate and important as yours?

Here's an example of what I mean. What if he wanted to load the dishwasher entirely wrong? And by "wrong" I mean "not your way"--plates on top and pans on the bottom with silverware all mixed up and facing up instead of down. What happens? Is there a war? Do you ask and ask and ask him to load the dishwasher, and then when he does do you tell him he did it "wrong" and then if he replies back that his way worked fine, do you feel "attacked"? 

Now bear in mind, that is an example. Maybe it's not the case at all, but we'll never know if I don't ask, right? And even if I do ask, you may minimize or outright lie, so we still don't really know. We aren't there. 

But you are. And the only person you can control here is YOU. If Conflicted is determined to carry on with the guild girl, he'll find a way to do it no matter how you try to "make him stop"--so the only thing you can do here is change you. 

So why not try one of my favorite games? It's called "Taking the wind out of their sails." Usually when couples fight HE says "You always ABC!" and without even hearing him, SHE replies "I DO NOT! I XYZ'ed just yesterday! You just never LMN!" and without ever hearing her, HE roars "I do so! I was LMN'ing all week and didn't even notice. In fact you yelled!" And so the dance continues every time: HE steps 1, SHE steps 2, HE steps 3. It's a waltz.

Instead, try this. I mean it... just try this: 

HE says "You always ABC!" (step 1) and instead you saying your usual reply which would be Step 2, say "So what you're saying is that I ABC so often that it seems like I always do that?" 

See how you didn't agree or disagree or defend yourself or continue the dance, but instead you just restate what they said and kind of rephrase it? 

What if he said "You ALWAYS turn me down for sex!" and you know you don't, because just last Tuesday you two fooled around. If you reply "That's not true" and throw out dates when you didn't turn him down all you're doing is continuing the dance of fighting and it's not like he's going to say "Oh, that's right. You're right dear." Really! When has that EVER happened?

But if you say "So you're saying if you initiate it seems like I turn you down every time?" This is hearing what he said, and letting him have his own opinion, even if it is different than yours. Maybe once you say it out loud like that he'd say "Well no not EVERY time...but it kind of feels that way." 

Okay... now try it.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You came here for help and then immediately sent the link to your husband, IMO, to show him you were right. He then posts to show us he is right..
> 
> You both want to win at marriage and that needs to stop. Playing one up is a ridiculous way to live.


I admittedly think I have to agree with you on this one.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

********** said:


> You both had/are having an EA.
> 
> No room in a marriage for a spouse to be in constant/daily contact with someone of the opposite sex. OW gave you emotional support? Makes it worse. EAs are about bonding. Flirting? Nope. Not OK either.
> 
> ...


Husband isn't lurking anymore. I know that we both want to work on this, we just seem to have very different views on what is appropriate


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

Okay here's one thing I worry about: I would be surprised if a trained counselor would sit back and let one spouse "attack" the other for a whole session. I can't see any way that would be helpful to the marriage, and I'm not even a licensed counselor, just a coach! I would NEVER let that continue in an appointment! [/QUOTE] 

I was still very upset when I posted that. After calming down, I realized he wasn't "attacking" me. Its was a very emotional session, and him yelling at me right after made it much worse. 

So that leaves two options: 
1) Either there really was a session-long attack and the counselor did nothing (in which case, I'd change counselors ASAP) -OR-


> 2) It wasn't an "attack" ... it was ConflictedKarma stating his case, how he really sees it, thinks, and feels and ConfusedKarma FEELS attacked because he doesn't see it, think and feel like she wants him to. In fact, he vigorously disagrees!


Does a bit of both make sense?



> My concern is this, Confused. Is your husband able to have his own opinion that is 100% different than yours and not be "wrong" or "the bad guy" or the enemy? Are the two of you able to be entirely different people but his preferences and feelings are just as legitimate and important as yours?
> 
> Here's an example of what I mean. What if he wanted to load the dishwasher entirely wrong? And by "wrong" I mean "not your way"--plates on top and pans on the bottom with silverware all mixed up and facing up instead of down. What happens? Is there a war? Do you ask and ask and ask him to load the dishwasher, and then when he does do you tell him he did it "wrong" and then if he replies back that his way worked fine, do you feel "attacked"?




Yes he has his own opinion. Im not the type to yell at him because he isn't watching the baby right, or changing the diaper right, or anything like that. I dont care how he does the dishes, Im just delighted he has. 



> Now bear in mind, that is an example. Maybe it's not the case at all, but we'll never know if I don't ask, right? And even if I do ask, you may minimize or outright lie, so we still don't really know. We aren't there.
> 
> But you are. And the only person you can control here is YOU. If Conflicted is determined to carry on with the guild girl, he'll find a way to do it no matter how you try to "make him stop"--so the only thing you can do here is change you.
> 
> ...



As far as the rest, yes we have had arguments like that where we just absolutely aren't listening. e and I were incredibly good at communication in our relationship. We had to be because of the distance, and we cared enough to really do this. 

We did end up talking last night... I mean talking, listening. We didnt agree on everything, but we did manage to at least agree on the perceptions (both ways). My husband did delete the game and the app with the girl. Partly because the Bf even professing he wasn't jealous did the " So how much money do you make anyway" thing. My husband says that sent a red flag that the guy in fact was worried. 

So that is now gone, it will kill a lot of that stress with it removed, and we can work on counseling, and hopefully both see each others views on this one. 

I know part, a big part is a lot he has gone through recently. Even if he knew it would bother me, I think maybe he didnt care (at the moment). We also talked more about his mom, and we "as a couple this time" are going to sit and talk with her, and express the urgency of her moving out. My husband is wanting her out as well, just out nearby and not California. 

We are working on this. He did admit to some underlying issues still remaining from what he went through with me. We are going to work on that. Im not sure how to help him get past it.


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

ConfusedKarma said:


> Okay here's one thing I worry about: I would be surprised if a trained counselor would sit back and let one spouse "attack" the other for a whole session. I can't see any way that would be helpful to the marriage, and I'm not even a licensed counselor, just a coach! I would NEVER let that continue in an appointment!


I was still very upset when I posted that. After calming down, I realized he wasn't "attacking" me. Its was a very emotional session, and him yelling at me right after made it much worse. 

So that leaves two options: 
1) Either there really was a session-long attack and the counselor did nothing (in which case, I'd change counselors ASAP) -OR-


Does a bit of both make sense?





Yes he has his own opinion. Im not the type to yell at him because he isn't watching the baby right, or changing the diaper right, or anything like that. I dont care how he does the dishes, Im just delighted he has. 



> Now bear in mind, that is an example. Maybe it's not the case at all, but we'll never know if I don't ask, right? And even if I do ask, you may minimize or outright lie, so we still don't really know. We aren't there.
> 
> But you are. And the only person you can control here is YOU. If Conflicted is determined to carry on with the guild girl, he'll find a way to do it no matter how you try to "make him stop"--so the only thing you can do here is change you.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

As far as the rest, yes we have had arguments like that where we just absolutely aren't listening. e and I were incredibly good at communication in our relationship. We had to be because of the distance, and we cared enough to really do this. 

We did end up talking last night... I mean talking, listening. We didnt agree on everything, but we did manage to at least agree on the perceptions (both ways). My husband did delete the game and the app with the girl. Partly because the Bf even professing he wasn't jealous did the " So how much money do you make anyway" thing. My husband says that sent a red flag that the guy in fact was worried. 

So that is now gone, it will kill a lot of that stress with it removed, and we can work on counseling, and hopefully both see each others views on this one. 

I know part, a big part is a lot he has gone through recently. Even if he knew it would bother me, I think maybe he didnt care (at the moment). We also talked more about his mom, and we "as a couple this time" are going to sit and talk with her, and express the urgency of her moving out. My husband is wanting her out as well, just out nearby and not California. 

We are working on this. He did admit to some underlying issues still remaining from what he went through with me. We are going to work on that. Im not sure how to help him get past it.[/QUOTE]


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

I know its gonna be up and down for a while. He hasnt actually grieved yet over his father. He wont even face the revelation about his son. He says anytime he thinks of it, he gets "violently" angry, so he chooses to ignore it. 

We both Want to work on this, so I know we will both give it our best shot.

My husband is not a Bad person at all. He has done things for me, that most men would run from. I had 4 kids, he was a single guy, never married. Ever since a year into our relationship he has been dealing with my ex's constant taking me into court and a very nasty custody battle that still is not over.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay so I see two EXTREMELY promising things here: 

1) Got rid of one stressor (sort of) the game. My guess is that you guys could actually enjoy the gaming as a couple and then have a common interest and common recreation. So Confused, you may want to make the effort to play with him and maybe switch like from WoW to Rift or Diablo for a while. Make your own guild and YOU help manage it....etc. 

2) You've both addressed the "getting mom out" thing. It sounds like he would love to be able to tell his mom to move but it's his MOM and he feels a little bad...and could use your firm back up. It is his mother, so let him take the lead, but you be right there for him to give him courage to say what he has to say. In your head, remember he is saying something really hard to his own mom and choosing you over his own mom. That's COOL! So let him know how much it helps you and be there like the support team. Also it may not be a bad idea to sort of compromise here. If his mom is sort of disabled or alone or just frankly kind of poor, but she's willing to move out, maybe she could rent a mobile home sooner than buying one, or maybe you could agree to chipping in $XX per month to facilitate her moving out sooner. My own M-I-L is like this too (Dear Hubby's dad died, mom had never worked, and she's got Chronic Fatigue). So Social Security pays her rent, food stamps for food, and us kids split up her bills and yard work. So just give it a thought and see what you'd be willing to do to extend yourself a little bit to also facilitate getting what you want (aka, mom moving out).

One final word of advice. If he addressed these two MAJOR stress areas...and if you two reached an agreement you are both fairly happy with right now, I would say it's time for some positive stuff. One way to really build love is to stop and fix the negative stuff (did that) and then in it's place add positive stuff. So this weekend, be light hearted, have some fun, play together, and just act like you like him. Remember the girl who really liked him? She's still in there--so let her out and do something fun with him you've always wanted to do. Like Dear Hubby and I--this weekend we're having lamb for Easter. I've always wanted to try it and so has he, so we are taking the plunge! :lol:

Sounds encouraging!


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## ConfusedKarma (Apr 15, 2014)

After getting to a good mood yesterday and part of today, he regressed back into a bad mood. He couldn't say why. 

He has been talking about wanting a PS4 to play ff14 which actually sounds fun to me as well. So, I thought, You know what..he deserves this! He has worked his butt off for months and hasnt really gotten to spend any of it on himself. 

So I sent him off with the baby to the park while I went to the store to get "groceries".

When I got back I asked him to help me get them out, and he saw the console. He was very happy and said thanksyou, gave me a hug. 

Couple minutes later in the house he goes "Its too bad me and trefle arent talking anymore, so we could play ff14 together"

UGH...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

This is why you don't reward bad behavior.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

ConfusedKarma said:


> Couple minutes later in the house he goes "Its too bad me and trefle arent talking anymore, so we could play ff14 together"
> 
> UGH...


Have you any idea who this guy is?

My W never mentioned "HIM" unless I brought "HIM" up, if she were to come out with a comment like that, just have a little guess what might have happened???

Give you a clue.

:2gunsfiring_v1:


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah. It seems kind of foolish to bring another game into the house. Take it back.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

You both need to learn how to communicate.

And think before you speak.

And try to get some logic in your reasoning.

I really would like that if people talk agressively it would cause a headache in the speaker. That would bring you two to your senses quite quick. Maybe ask a friend to monitor your conversation efforts with a stick in his hands? Who raises his voice, who does not let the other speak out gets a friendly reminder with the stick.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

"Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think." - Neils Bohr


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