# Do antidepressants really hell you?



## SepticChange (Aug 21, 2011)

I was prescribed celexa and wellbutrin last year but took myself off of them earlier this year because I didn't want to be dependent on meds. In all honesty I don't know if they helped me or not. I couldn't tell if my mood stayed the same or if it actually got got worse but the meds kept me alive. I just don't know. How am I supposed to know and feel?

Anyway, though I quit taking them I kept getting the prescriptions because I didn't want to tell my doctor that I quit. When I had mentioned it she got onto me about stopping so when I did I stayed quiet. I have months worth of meds and things have been catching up to me and I'm putting myself back on them. Sti don't know what to expect this time around. I'm on day 2 and hope to not feel like digging a hole and jumping in it pretty soon.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SepticChange said:


> I was prescribed celexa and wellbutrin last year but took myself off of them earlier this year because I didn't want to be dependent on meds. In all honesty I don't know if they helped me or not. I couldn't tell if my mood stayed the same or if it actually got got worse but the meds kept me alive. I just don't know. How am I supposed to know and feel?
> 
> Anyway, though I quit taking them I kept getting the prescriptions because I didn't want to tell my doctor that I quit. When I had mentioned it she got onto me about stopping so when I did I stayed quiet. I have months worth of meds and things have been catching up to me and I'm putting myself back on them. Sti don't know what to expect this time around. I'm on day 2 and hope to not feel like digging a hole and jumping in it pretty soon.


I know this is probably too late but...

:wtf::banghead:

What does it say on the bottle? "Do not stop taking this medication without consulting your doctor!"

First, you are an adult and YOU get to decide what meds to takes. You PAY your doctor to treat your symptoms, if the treatment isn't working for you, considering you don't have a medical degree, your doctor can work with you to find a mutually suitable substitute that treats your symptoms/condition WITHOUT causing your additional harm!

Second, you say you don't want to become dependent on meds. And if you had diabetes? Became dependent on insulin? What about a heart condition and became dependent on blood pressure and cholesterol meds? Do you understand the essential difference between "dependent on taking these meds in order to manage a condition so you can live a full life" and chemically dependent on drugs because the absence of these drugs cause withdrawal side effects? Taking daily maintenance drugs is NOT drug dependence! I take synthroid every day and without it my body systems would slow and eventually shut down. I am dependent on synthroid to live a full life and without it I would get sick, but I am not addicted to synthroid.

Third, a POX of all doctors who hand out scrips for antidepressants without insisting their patient attend regular therapy! I would dearly love to pass a law preventing this medical malpractice! Stupid stupid stupid!

Fourth, antidepressants do not heal you, nor do they cure you. Which is WHY doctors should NOT prescribe them unless the patient is in therapy. What antidepressants do help with is managing the severity of the symptoms while the patient, through talk therapy, learns to identify troubling aspects of their life and learn more healthy ways of coping. Without this second ingredient, it's like setting a pot of water to boil on the stove but not turning the stove on! The pot of water (medication) makes it possible to get dinner cooked but without turning the stove on (therapy) not much will happen. Which is WHY you felt like it wasn't doing much. Without therapy as a part of your treatment you remain bogged down with the same confusing overwhelming thoughts and feeling and without the coping skills and tools to take more effective control of your life.

You can't "white knuckle" your way through a depression. Even those who don't take meds or don't go to therapy, have figured out how to change the way they cope with life in order to feel more in control of their life.

Lastly, you went back on the meds, without informing your doc because your doc doesn't know you went off them. Some meds need to be slowly tapered off before you can stop taking them, and those meds typically need to be slowly built up in your system. I believe celexa is one of them. Wellbutrin is a more mild antidepressant.

So when you went off, things got worse. Then you went back on, but that was two weeks ago. How are you feeling now?

Look, if you can't talk to your doc and be honest about what treatment you find acceptable, and have good discussions about why, you need a new doc. Your doc isn't your mother, father or boss. They work for you but they can't do their job unless you are honest. If your doc seems to be strong arming you, find a new one. If this is a case of you avoiding a conversation in which you have to openly discuss how you feel...this is why you need therapy more than you need meds.

Please post again?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How long did you take them? They usually take 2 to 3 months for a change. I never had problems with wellbutrin and they DID help me with motivation and energy, just basically got me off the couch and finally taking care of things again. I felt NO different, I just wanted to accomplish things.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

This is weird. You've got a duplicate thread. When I posted above I never saw the other thread of the exact same title, but with many replies.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The other one had a misspelling.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or rather this one did.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I fired a psychiatrist for insisting on increasing talk therapy. This is not a behavioral issue. It's neurochemical. I know more about 'coping' than any therapist. Sorry but I have more experience with it. 

Having said that, if what you use doesn't work in a month (4 weeks, 30 days), junk it and move on to something else. There is no such thing as an SSRI, SNRI, SSNRI or MAOI that doesn't work in 30 days if it's going to work at all. And if you have bad side effects w/in a week, then you should see your doctor THAT DAY.

Doctors are beginning to use more radical drugs to treat more ordinary forms of persistent depression, such as antipsychotics, antischizophrenics and anti convulsant drugs. The side effects of which can often be severe, permanent or fatal. Some of them shouldn't even be given outside of a hospital setting. For instance the difference between a fatal dose of depakote and one that only destroys your skin is very small. And one of the side effects is actually depression. 

Quite a few patients of SSRI/SNRIs experience 'conk out'. That's what I call it. Drugs that stop working for no reason at any dosage level after an arbitrary amount of time. So then you switch them up for something else and start over.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Run, that is excellent info but the trouble I have with discouraging therapy is the info you provided, doctors DONT provide. Particularly MD's. Patients walk out with scrips and it's up to them to read about it and figure things out. That why therapy is so vital because during therapy the psychologist is looking for positive responses or negative responses.

And while you may be infinitely expert and self guided self therapy, how common would you suggest that to be?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I see both sides of the MD / talk therapy coin... I have seasonal affective disorder, so I get depressed annually between about October-March. I take anti-depressants during those months, and if I had to see a therapist to keep getting the Rx filled I'd be irritated, because I'd have nothing to say. 

That said, having an underlying condition like that also makes one pre-disposed to getting depressed overall, which I did following my D quite deeply. I went days sometimes without eating-- not even thinking about it. I was in so much emotional pain, I remember thinking that the hunger pains were just a manifestation of how I felt emotionally.

AnonPink touched on it a bit above, but you should not perceive a mental illness such as depression any less important to deal with than you would a physical condition. There have been brain scans that show that your hippocampus actually decreases in size when you are depressed, which may be why it is so hard to pull yourself out of a depression.... it is a physiological manifestation of a mental condition. Mental illness' warrant the same attention the rest of you does. 

I'm not saying you need them or don't need them, but if your doc says you do, I think you should at least give them a shot. If they are not helping then tell him / her... that will allow them to try another, or make other suggestions. I've been on 3 or 4 different ones since my teen years, and for me, Welbutrin was garbage. They all affect you differently... I have Zoloft, which is more of a perky, happy anti-D. Some are more leveling, etc. 

I hope that you are exercising and getting outside too -- those are both big at keeping depression at bay.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Run, that is excellent info but the trouble I have with discouraging therapy is the info you provided, doctors DONT provide. Particularly MD's. Patients walk out with scrips and it's up to them to read about it and figure things out. That why therapy is so vital because during therapy the psychologist is looking for positive responses or negative responses.
> 
> And while you may be infinitely expert and self guided self therapy, how common would you suggest that to be?


That's really a diagnostic problem not a treatment problem. A doctor should refer the patient to a psychiatrist who knows what they're doing. Depression is like ADHD; everyone thinks it's a something that needs to have chemicals thrown at it all the time whereas in truth, most people with garden variety depression find that it's short lived and treatable with a light application of talk and drugs and that if they're doctor tells them after 2 months they're not better then that doctor is lying to them. A psychologist isn't going to know psycho-pharmacology. That's not their job. 

I'm only well versed because of a half century of coping with severe mental illness myself including a half dozen voluntary and involuntary institutionalizations, also arrests, violence, incarcerations, ECT, insulin shock, self medication, alcohol and drug abuse, dozens of therapists and/or psychiatrists, ****tails of psychoactive prescriptions, and the hard won knowledge that everyone is stumbling around in the dark, pretty much.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> That's really a diagnostic problem not a treatment problem. A doctor should refer the patient to a psychiatrist who knows what they're doing.


But they don't refer. The offer a scrip and mention therapy and that's it. MD's should not be handing out scripts for any psychotropics unless the patient has already been in therapy, will be seeking therapy, or has a damn firm grasp of self reporting tool. 





> Depression is like ADHD; everyone thinks it's a something that needs to have chemicals thrown at it all the time whereas in truth, most people with garden variety depression find that it's short lived and treatable with a light application of talk and drugs and that if they're doctor tells them after 2 months they're not better then that doctor is lying to them.


Depression is diagnosed through self reporting. So is the diagnosis "resolved." No doctor should be saying your depression is better unless YOU have declared it so.




> A psychologist isn't going to know psycho-pharmacology. That's not their job.


Actually, that IS their job. A PhD level psychologist, and the more experienced LCSW, do know their psychotropics and are trained to recognize, identify and suggest a need to tweak the meds.



> I'm only well versed because of a half century of coping with severe mental illness myself including a half dozen voluntary and involuntary institutionalizations, also arrests, violence, incarcerations, ECT, insulin shock, self medication, alcohol and drug abuse, dozens of therapists and/or psychiatrists, ****tails of psychoactive prescriptions, and the hard won knowledge that everyone is stumbling around in the dark, pretty much.


I'm so sorry for all that you've been through. That sounds horrible! 
Psychotropic medications are based in science but it is an artful skill to appropriately medicate a group of symptoms all of which can be influenced by the rain in Spain.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Depression pills do help SOME people.

Unfortunately they don't help many others, mostly because...
a) they are over perscirbed
b) they can cause HAVOC on your health/other areas

# of people in our family/friends that took these and their health just went downhill SO fast. # of them didn't even need it and simply took the "easy" option of pill rather than deal with LIFE.

Mind you, there are people that have severe depression and NEED these pills (no doubt).....problem is, doctors hand them out left and right.

Your doctor should do a full physical, ask you to lose weight and eat healthy LONG LONG before giving you ANY pills.

Pills = absolutely last resort for those with severe depression


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

DoF said:


> Depression pills do help SOME people.
> 
> Unfortunately they don't help many others, mostly because...
> a) they are over prescribed
> ...


:iagree:

Couldn't agree more. Doctors hand them out like candy without giving a thought to the long-term ramifications of the meds. In many instances these drugs create MORE problems than the ones they are trying to alleviate.

Whatever you do, do NOT get started on any of the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines (Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, Ambien, etc.) for LONG-TERM treatment, unless you want to consign yourself to an absolute living H*ll. This class of drugs is nearly impossible to come off of after lengthy use, are not effective after 2 weeks anyway, doctors completely IGNORE the package insert that warns against long term usage (more than 14 days), and the patients are left completely dependent on these horrific drugs.

And the docs just renew the prescriptions, month after month, because it's far easier than REALLY solving the patient's problem.

Google the term "Benzodiazepine Withdrawal" to see just how horrible it is.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Couldn't agree more. Doctors hand them out like candy without giving a thought to the long-term ramifications of the meds. In many instances these drugs create MORE problems than the ones they are trying to alleviate.
> 
> ...


Correct, and doctors have 0 incentive to get you healthy (from business perspective) ,but HIGH incentive for your health to deteriorate and get more business.

I know that MOST doctors are not evil and all, but let's face it, business model doesn't really allow them to do that.....or doesn't make them much money.

Finding a great doctor is HARDER than finding a great mechanic now days (IMO). And we all know how hard it is to find a great mechanic....i have never found one, do all my own work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I worked at a cancer hospital until this month. I didn't meet a single doctor who ever once brought up money or charging people for things. All they cared about was curing cancer or making lives better.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DoF said:


> Correct, and doctors have 0 incentive to get you healthy (from business perspective) ,but HIGH incentive for your health to deteriorate and get more business.
> 
> I know that MOST doctors are not evil and all, but let's face it, business model doesn't really allow them to do that.....or doesn't make them much money.


Oh please! Do you really think this is true, or is any sort of driving force for treatment? Do you personally know any doctors? 

Who killed Kennedy?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

FWIW insurance companies are about as restrictive about antidepressants as they are for opiates. It's getting fairly difficult to maintain long term protocols given the hoops most patients have to jump through. I can a bottle of Cipro a lot easier than 30 days of SNRIs.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I work in big pharma, and we are all about making sure everyone is hooked on drugs forever. We have back room meetings with Monsanto on a regular basis to ensure our cooperative effort to capitalize on the health of Americans stays at optimal efficiency.

Oh, we also only research cures for diseases that can make us money. I recently heard someone say that is why ALS is not cured yet, because it doesn't pay enough......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This is an excellent article about the healthcare system and how it isn't designed to save money, how it's been set up over the past couple decades (by insurance companies) to assign more tests (to avoid being sued) and to reduce doctors' pay by reducing payment for office visits. He talks about a current proposal to start paying doctors to coordinate better, to take a different approach, so doctors don't have to cram 50 patients in every day just to earn the same amount they did 20 years ago.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Tasorundo said:


> I work in big pharma, and we are all about making sure everyone is hooked on drugs forever.


Tasorundo, I didn't say anything about Big Pharma deliberately getting people hooked on meds. I SAID... Doctors oftentimes do not prescribe benzodiazepines correctly or according to the package insert, which is for 14 days only. Patients take these for months (many docs have no idea how hard it is to withdraw from this class of drugs).

My ex was a board certified neurologist who refused to prescribe them for more than 10 days, and never NEVER gave refills for benzos.

That's all I was saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mustangsally (Aug 20, 2014)

!!!!Wellbutrin messed me up so bad!!! It made me so much worse that one day I snapped and ate the entire bottle. I obviously lived but I spent over a month in the hospital relearning how to do literally everything. Ten years later I still have seizures and permanent brain damage. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR!!!!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Check out the book "The Mood Cure". There are some very effective alternatives to Rx anti-depressants which are natural and safe. They don't have the negative side effects of the Rx ADs, such as loss of libido or a flattening of all moods.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't share Runs opinion about the medical profession.

In my ex's case, he dealt with depression at various stages his entire life. One of his first doctor's told him that therapy was a waste of time and he just needed meds. At the time he depression was mild and the meds helped. He got better and stopped under the MD supervision. Shortly after our first child, the depression came back stronger. He got more meds and they did very little and he stopped. The last time, he was diagnosed with recurrent major depression/paranoid personality disorder/anxiety. He had real periods of psychosis. He was put on mends and the psychiatrist also recommended therapy. He was making improvement until he started lying to his therapist (something he admitted to me close to Dday). It was most likely an indication that his meds needed adjustment, but he refused all further treatment. He quit meds and therapy and spiraled out of control.

My point being that whether meds, therapy or a combination of both help appears to vary so much by patient and by the nature of the disorder when presented it is impossible to make any blanket statement about what works.


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## "joe" (Aug 19, 2013)

lexapro has really helped me, but zoloft was awful.


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