# I know, I've forgiven, but how do I get her to admit it?



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

Hello

I have been married 18 years to a wonderful woman whom I love dearly. Recently she told me she had a one night stand while on a trip for work. I was angry at first but forgave her (did not forget). I have also found an email account that led to a facebook account that my wife has. There were some messages sent to a person that I know she met on a work trip before the one night stand. I have forgiven her for these mistakes in my heart and my mind. The problem I have is that she admitted to one but not the other. She does not know I found the email and facebook page. We are trying to work our marriage out. Do I need to let her know that I know and forgive her so that she can feel more at ease knowing that she isn't hiding something? 

I want my marriage to work but I am concerned that this secret that my wife thinks she is keeping could derail the whole thing further down the road. Part of me says to just keep it in the past and hope it doesn't come up later and part of me says tell her I know so that we can get over it and move on.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

What has she done to earn your forgiveness so quickly?


----------



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

How do I explain that? I honestly don't know how to explain it. I have had to take a good look at myself these last few months and realized I have been in her shoes on many occasions and she has always forgiven me. Back in the late 90's I got wrapped up big time in Talk City chat rooms. And did a lot of things a probably should not have done. I did not have cyber sex or anything like that but I did do a lot of flirting and 1-1 with girls that as a married man I should never have done. My wife forgave me for that and I have forgiven her for this. 

Now don't get me wrong I said I have forgiven her but I did not say I trust her 100% anymore. I do believe it is simple to forgive someone when they make a mistake as we all do it. But the hard part is working to get that trust back in the marriage and that is what I am worried about now. 

What is done is done and can not be changed but if we are keeping secrets how can we begin to build the trust back up? She is keeping the secret of the email and facebook site and I am keeping the secret of knowing. I watch both the email and facebook site regularly and know that there has been no contact from the guy to her and she has stopped trying to contact him. She doesn't delete her recent phone calls or voice mails or her text messages so I know that unless she is seeing him at these work trips she takes it has ended. And both EA's have taken place during a time that she was asking for either a separation or divorce. 

We have started moving away from divorce and are trying to slowly work on saving our marriage. And a big part of saving our marriage is going to be us being able to trust each other 100% again.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You cannot go into R and you cannot heal while she is keeping secrets and hiding possibly another affair. Making a left turn at an intersection when you were supposed to go right is a mistake. Having a ONS is not a mistake, it's a choice, a terrible choice, but still a choice. What it looks like you're doing is sweeping it under the rug, that's why you cannot heal. You are not going to save your marriage this way.


----------



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

lordmayhem

I thank you for your opinion and respect it. Yes the ONS was a choice as was my being so deeply involved in chat rooms. Everything in life is a choice. But a wrong choice can still be a mistake. For example turning left when you should have tuned right that is a choice. 

I am not trying to sweep this under the rug but I am trying to move on past it. We have talked and have found the underlying issues and are trying to work them out. We have both agreed to IC and MC. We are starting to take the baby steps needed for this marriage to work. I just feel that her secret will hold her back due to feelings of guilt and I feel that my secret of knowing her secret will hold be back due to lack of trust. 

In the past I have been a hard person to talk to. If my wife didn't think like me I got mad and could become very verbally abusive. I think she is scared to tell me the entire truth not knowing how I will react and I blame myself for that. That is something that I have been working on changing and so far so good and by me just listening and then thinking instead of just reacting has made a big difference. My wife has gone from being done in this marriage to agreeing to IC and MC and I have also taken the step to agree to it also. The hardest thing in the world for a person is to admit they have a problem and need help.

It is kind of like being an addict. You have to first realize that you have a problem before you can deal with it. We have gotten past the denial stage and are now taking steps to work it out.

I know we have a long road ahead of us and I know we are going to have are ups and downs for this to work out. 

I think the biggest thing for me right now is I want to tell my wife the truth about everything. I have told her everything that I had been keeping from her over the years. Most of which she had already suspected but I just clarified. It was nice not having any secrets from my wife until this. I think that is the part that is killing me the most right now. I know I can't ask my wife to honestly trust me if deep down I know for a fact that I am keeping a secret from her. 

Think I am starting to ramble but just really confused about things right now. There is a lot more to this whole story but really don't want to put it out here. The things I do know is that I love my wife with all my heart, I want to spend eternity with her, and I want her to be able to trust me.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

WI see you are being transparent for her, and that's great because its supposed to work both ways. But is she being transparent to you by keeping her secret accounts? Nope. Ok, here's my thing that I usually copy and paste from. Take from it what you will.

First off, know that the affair is not your fault. Have you been the perfect husband? Of course not, no one is. What I see clearly is that you are blaming yourself for her affair. She had other options besides cheating, such as communicating with you on working out the marital problems, going to Marriage Counseling (MC), divorce, etc. Yet she chose the easy option: cheating. Most likely because the Other Man (OM) stroked her ego and provided the shoulder to cry on. Your wife is now a Wayward Wife (WW), so consider as such. She will give the common excuses: You weren’t there for her, OM provided for her needs because you couldn’t, etc.

The last thing you should do is to cry, beg, and/or plead with her. This not only makes you unattractive, it drives her away. Trying your best to be the best husband doesn’t work either, because you cannot compete with the fantasy she has built up with the OM.

Now you have to play detective in order to save your marriage, or to get the proof you need to end it. If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not, you will have to do this on your own. What you also need to find out is who exactly the OM is, his identity, if he’s married, and if he’s married, his Betrayed Wife’s (BW) contact information. You will need this info later on.

We Betrayed Spouses (BS) call this investigating. Others call it snooping. The cardinal rule about investigating is NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!! This will prevent her from denying the A, which they almost always do at first until presented with proof of the A. This will also prevent her from gas lighting you. Gas lighting is a term used when the WW, when confronted, will say that you are just jealous, imagining things, and that you are just crazy. Gathering enough proof of the A, also prevents the Wayward Spouse (WS) her, from giving you the Trickle Truth (TT). TT is when the WS minimizes what they have done in the A, and will only admit to what they think you know. For example: Most will say they only kissed their Affair Partner (AP) once, when in fact they went much farther than that. If the A has gone to a PA, they usually only admit to doing it once & with a condom! 

If the WS is using a computer as part of the tools of the A, then you will need to install computer monitoring software, the basic ones are keyloggers. There are free ones, which basically only record keystrokes, to the more expensive ones that record keystrokes, capture screenshots of the computer, email you the results, etc. There are good ones like Spector Pro, Web Watcher, Spy Agent, etc. There are also free ones, but you get what you pay for. Why do you need a keylogger? So you can be aware of their communications, such as how long this has been going on, what they have done, and what they are planning to do. Another key tool cheaters use is the secret email account. A keylogger will capture their usernames and passwords. 

Now you might feel guilty about investigating/verifying. Sorry, but their privacy went out the window the second they endangered the marriage by having an A. It is your right to investigate now, so don’t lose any sleep or feel guilty about it. If they try to turn it around on you (blame shift), tell them it’s your right because they are having an A. 

Another tool that cheaters use is the cell phone of course. Some carriers allow you to check online who the other person is calling and/or texting. If you don’t have access to this information, then use the keylogger to obtain it. If your WS has a smart phone, you may be able to install phone monitoring software such as Mobile Spy or Mobistealth. This will allow you to see their text messages. The more expensive versions of Mobile Spy and Mobistealth even allow you to listen in on their conversations in near real time, and use the GPS to track their location. If your WS suspects that you are on to them, they may purchase a secret cell phone. A clue that your WS has a secret cell phone is if they suddenly leave their regular cell phone lying about when before they were guarding it at all times. This brings me to the Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). 

A VAR can be purchased very cheap, usually around $40 or more, at either Walmart, Best Buy, or your local electronics store. A VAR can be very useful at determining if your WS has a secret cell phone. Also, a strategically placed VAR can be very useful if you are unable to install phone monitoring software on their cell phone. A good place to hide a VAR is in the WS vehicle. If there is one place they feel secure in talking with their AP, it’s in their vehicle. Some place it under the drivers seat with industrial strength Velcro. It’s up to you where you can place your VAR. You may want to hide one in your bedroom or the bathroom in order to record their conversations.

Once you have gathered your proof, it is time to confront your WW. This is called the Day of Discovery (DDay). This may well be the most traumatic day of your life. If you have gathered enough proof, your WW will not be able to deny, gas light, or TT you. Your WW will either go into crying fits, be angry, or both. She will try to blame you for the A, tell you she has been unhappy for months or years. Re-Writing the history of the marriage is a common tactic, they use it to justify the A to themselves. Stay strong and know this is not your fault! This is hers!

She will say that she does not know what she wants. This is called fence sitting. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to play around with her OM. Do not stand for this. It is either you or him. There is no room in a marriage for 3 partners. 

Another common occurrence is that the WS will leave the house when confronted on DDay. This is usually only for a few days or weeks. The WW will usually contact the OM about what happened. The WW usually comes home after a few days, but sometimes they don’t. DO NOT beg her to come home. Like I said earlier, this makes you look weak. 

Another common tactic that the WS does is to cry and plead that they want to fix the marriage after they have been caught, but then they take the A “underground”. This is when the WS has talked to the AP about ways to continue the A without your knowledge. This is usually when they resort to using a secret email account and a secret cell phone. If you have not revealed your sources, then you can usually find out if they have taken the A underground. 

If they wish to stay in the marriage, then you have to remain firm and demand No Contact (NC). They must end the affair and go NC. That is the ONLY way to save your marriage, by killing the affair. An A is exactly like a drug, because the WS receives a “high” from the affair. Feel good chemicals like dopamine and others, are excreted in the brain during the A. Giving them a high feeling, the feeling of being in love, etc. 

If your WS is very deep in the fog of the A, and refuses to go NC, or the OM/OW refuses to go NC, then the next step is exposing the A. This means contacting the other BS. This serves two purposes. This helps kill the affair by bringing it into the light of day, and you have another set of eyes watching the other side of the affair. You might even be able to compare notes with the BS and find out more information, or they may have information about the A that you didn’t know about. The other reason is because it’s the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want someone to have told you what was going on?

Remember the monitoring I was telling you about? Monitoring the WW will allow you to know if she has broken NC. If the OM contacts her and she doesn’t tell you about it, that is also breaking NC. And if you ultimately decide to Reconcile (R), then monitoring will help rebuild trust. After you keep finding nothing, and she is doing her part in R, then you will find yourself monitoring less and less. Eventually you may be able to wean yourself off from monitoring her since she has rebuilt some trust.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26439-bill-rights-betrayed.html

But hey, if you want to rugsweep, and fix yourself, while she hasn't provided you full disclosure and isn't working on herself too, then you are simply looking at another affair in the future. Then you will be back to square 1.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

B329FA said:


> I have also found an email account that led to a facebook account that my wife has. There were some messages sent to a person that I know she met on a work trip before the one night stand. The problem I have is that she admitted to one but not the other. She does not know I found the email and facebook page. We are trying to work our marriage out. Do I need to let her know that I know and forgive her so that she can feel more at ease knowing that she isn't hiding something?


Secrets will destroy you. And it also doesn't let you recover.

Print out the emails and show them to her. 

I think you may ahve forgiven her too quickly. She needs to earn her way back. And now that you have found this other affair out, you absolutely cannot move fwd with total transparency from eachother if she is hiding this from you. 

Know that. 

So print it out, show it to her and tell her you want to discuss this. That if you guys have any chance at reconciliation, you both need to come clean about everything.

Get into marriage counselling.


----------



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

well this story just keeps getting better. I went online with an old facebook account my wife and I shared and looked the guy up and requested him as a friend. He actually had a conversation with me. He thought he was talking to my wife. Seems he has a girlfriend and doesn't tell her what he is doing. Even agreed to meet me this coming weekend for 2 days at a hotel. And he verified it all so instead of thinking my wife had that 2nd affair I now know for sure. I am going to confront my wife tomorrow night. And because of the conversation I just had with the OM she cant lie her way out of it. 

I am going to tell my wife she is to break off all contact with this man and i am going to continue checking her facebook accounts and her phone for anything out of the ordinary. She is going to have to work hard to earn my trust back and that means IC and MC and everything that goes with it. If she isn't willing then I know that there is no hope for us and I will move on.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OMG, that sounds so similar to mine. You see, I found my WWs secret facebook account, then I logged on to my WWs regular account and the OM started chatting with me, thinking he was talking to my WW. So I pretended to be her and all that. Thats how I found irrefutable proof. I even took screenshots of the chat.

B329FA, I know you're furious right now and hurt, but dont make the mistake of confronting too soon. You need to find out his GFs name and contact information so you can expose the A to her. Its hard to wait, but don't make my mistake by flying off the handle and confronting when you don't have enough. If you feel you have enough to prevent her from denying everything, then go ahead and confront. You know how to proceed from there.

Also, don't forget that she has to become transparent. That's the way toward earning back trust.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

B329FA said:


> well this story just keeps getting better. I went online with an old facebook account my wife and I shared and looked the guy up and requested him as a friend. He actually had a conversation with me. He thought he was talking to my wife. _ Seems he has a girlfriend and doesn't tell her what he is doing._ Even agreed to meet me this coming weekend for 2 days at a hotel. And he verified it all so instead of thinking my wife had that 2nd affair I now know for sure. I am going to confront my wife tomorrow night. And because of the conversation I just had with the OM she cant lie her way out of it.


Wait... he was set to meet up your wife in a hotel this weekend or you??? If it's your wife, I would plan for the trip and meet them there. I'd be like, Oh hi, wanna tell me what's going on? Print the conversations!!!!! 

What all did he say to you? What did he verify?

Do you know who the girlfriend is? How do you know he didn't tell her? TELL HER YOURSELF! copy/paste the convos/emails to her.


----------



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

ok I have requested his girlfriend on facebook so that I can share the conversation with her. If she does not accept the friend request I will just send her a nice little message letting her know about her boyfriend


There is no date for this weekend. That was his and my conversation. He verified a lot. Probably more than I ever wanted to know. He gave me the dates they hooked up to include month and exact dates, exactly what they did and how many times they did it. I mean this guy was a real piece of work. Every question I asked him to help verify things he gave me without blinking an eye. He even gave me a physical description of my wife.

But when I asked him if he was willing to leave his girlfriend for me (thinking it was my wife) he said no that it was just fun for him to basically screw around on his girlfriend


----------



## B329FA (Jun 21, 2011)

I just sent his girlfriend a message on facebook letting her know he is cheating on her. We will see how that goes for him.


----------

