# Emotional Affair?



## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi, I'm new to these forums and was just looking for some advice. Judging by the amount of threads on here of a similar nature I guess this is a fairly common problem. I feel my wife is having an Emotional Affair and just wanted other opinions. My wife and I have been married for six years and have three wonderful children, however, recently I've noticed her phone to be glued to her hand more than normal. It turns out she has been texting and whatsapping her boss. I thought nothing of this at the time and just brushed it off. The other day I noticed her deleting all of her texts and whatsapp messages to him and asked her why? She said she didn't like his profile picture so deletes them everyday. That's when I first started to question what was going on. A few weeks passed and on Monday night she went out for a few drinks with her work colleagues but didn't come home till 2am in the morning. She quickly got in to bed and being quite drunk went straight to sleep. I checked her phone for texts and whatsapp messages but there were none. About ten minutes later her phone vibrated. It was her boss. The message was a very simple wink emoticon. I left it there and when I checked again in the morning, it too had been deleted. This concerned me so as the phone contact is in my name I logged in to my account to view my bills and it turns out she has been messaging him since at least April from what I can see. In the month of July alone she sent him over 800 texts. This morning my wife and I were intimate with each other and I left bed at bang on 8am. After getting my self ready for work I heard downstairs as my wife headed up. She had left her phone on the side. This was my chance. I went straight to her whatsapp and at 8.01 she had messaged him saying 'morning hun, how are you? Xx'. I haven't challenged her about this yet but have been going c ray at work about it. An I overreacting to this or does this seem to be cause for concern? Any advice would be appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bamzor (Aug 15, 2012)

Sorry you have joined the crowd. Many will help you... Don't confront her yet. Stay blind...We know its extremely difficult. Gather evidence.


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

You are going to get a rapid fire of responses..you came to the right place.

Your story is exactly the same as thousands on this site..and I'm afraid it's not going to be good news. Your wife is in an affair (physical) and you now need to get the proof and then stop it immediately, and expose to the boss's wife (if he has one). 

So, take the next few days and just track the great advice you will get here. So sorry.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

If it smells like a duck, it usually is a duck. Sorry man. Stay tuned for help. It's coming but you really need to strongly consider it. It's going to get much worse before it gets better. Take the long view. You can be happy again.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

yes do not confront yet you need more proof.
wow since April, it maybe more then a EA. I hope not but it sounds bad.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Get a VAR and heavy duty velcro and stick it under the seat of her car.

Then see a lawyer and see what your rights and obligations to your children are in case it does end in a D.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She is already having a PA with him.

Contact weightlifter, he is good at these things.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I am currently in R with my H about his EA. I caught it extremely early. I confronted right away at first but then found TAM and followed the instructions. Listen to the people on here. You can end this.

Install the VAR. Print out your phone records. If you can get to her phone, take screenshots of any texts you can find. Once you have your proof...go nuclear.

Armed with proof of his inappropriate behavior, I flat out told my H it was either her or me. No "just a friend" BS. If he wanted to stay married, he would need to cut ties IMMEDIATELY or I would divorce. I meant it and he knew it. He contacted her right away and I followed up with a confirmation text. I informed her fiance and told mutual friends. It is OVER!!! He has turned himself over completely to me. Answers all of my questions, over and over. I monitor all electronic access and track him and will slack off on that when I feel comfortable. He accepts this. If your wife does not agree to this stuff, you are going to have a big problem.

Now, in your case, I am afraid it has crossed into a PA. I hope not. I suggest once you have proof you not only move forward with D (you can back out of it later), but you tell the boss' wife and the HR department.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

To two of your questions:

*Emotional Affair?* Yes, and a PA as well.

*Am I over reacting?* No, you're under reacting.

Sounds like if you play it cool for a week or so and follow the advice here on surveillance, you'll find your smoking gun in short order. When you confirm that it's a PA, and you will if you do what we suggest, check back with us for next steps. In the mean time, you need to decide if the PA is a deal breaker for you.

Sorry you're here, but with the wealth of experience on this board, you can put your self in a position to handle this the best way; whether you chose to R or D.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

matt83 said:


> April from what I can see. In the month of July alone she sent him over 800 texts. This morning my wife and I were intimate with each other and I left bed at bang on 8am. After getting my self ready for work I heard downstairs as my wife headed up. She had left her phone on the side. This was my chance. I went straight to her whatsapp and at 8.01 she had messaged him saying 'morning hun, how are you? Xx'.


This is what I did. 

Get all of those bills, print them out and put them somewhere safe. Depending on the company, you can actually get all of the calls and messages to one number it'll save you ink and paper. If you are able to do this print both the messages and the live phone calls. People tend to worry about texts and emails, but forget that actual voice/talk times are important as well.

Wife: Well, we work together, of course there are 800 texts.
Husband: Hmmm... Then there is no reason to have multiple 30 minute hour long phone calls.

It is quite shocking to see a stack of papers with ONLY ONE phone number, fake divorce papers, bags packed and your husband sarcastically saying "Please tell me there is nothing going on, I have already booked a hotel for you."

My wife is not a good liar and the pause was all I needed to know it was going to be a long night.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> I am currently in R with my H about his EA. I caught it extremely early. I confronted right away at first but then found TAM and followed the instructions. Listen to the people on here. You can end this.
> 
> Install the VAR. Print out your phone records. If you can get to her phone, take screenshots of any texts you can find. Once you have your proof...go nuclear.
> 
> ...


YeahRight, glad you took care of your situation. Was wondering if you ever got back the trust? Can you ever truly trust again? The affair may be over but the character issues are still there, correct? I am not trying to hijack this thread but rather I ask you these things here for the edification of the poster and his situation. I'm thinking divorce is always the ultimate answer but perhaps you can share your ideas on this.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Part of fixing this will be her quitting her job...unless of course WHEN...not if...WHEN YOU expose this to her work, her om's bosses...let THEM know their manager is screwing a married woman, if om gets fired she can continue to work there

stage one is gather evidence
stage 2 is expose..take your proof and let om (other man, the dude your wife is seeing) wife know...expose to your family and her family, expose to friends

stage 3 is confront her...at this point her actions have EXPLODED around her and everyone knows, there is fallout from friends, family, and her job...it will avoid SOME, not all, but some of the lies and excuses she will give...


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

WalterWhite said:


> YeahRight, glad you took care of your situation. Was wondering if you ever got back the trust? Can you ever truly trust again? The affair may be over but the character issues are still there, correct? I am not trying to hijack this thread but rather I ask you these things here for the edification of the poster and his situation. I'm thinking divorce is always the ultimate answer but perhaps you can share your ideas on this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


We are still working on it. It has only bee a few months since DDay. I don't think I will ever trust him 100% again and he understands this. While my monitoring will probably lessen over time, I will always be vigilant. What saved us was that we have been married over 20 years with perfect behavior prior. There was no PA. He immediately ended once I did the proper confront and has turned himself over to me as far as when I need space, or answering questions, etc. He's normally an alpha kinda guy and is letting me lead. Without all of this, I would be GONE.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

gather evidence
voice activated recorders (VAR) as the name implies...when someone starts talking, these HIDDEN devices start recording

hide one in her car (industrial strength velcro it under her seat)...tell her your gonna get her car washed so you can install this without worrying she will interupt and catch you

hide one behind the headboard in your bedroom
hide one behind the tank in your bathroom
hide one in the room she most often uses to talk on phone

this part is harder but access her facebook, email accounts and phone...there is software available (keylogger) to monitor her computer use...I know zilch about this so someone else can clue you in


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Badmemory is right, you need to determine your dealbreaker. Also the deal suspender.

Even if it's an EA, don't make the mistake of handing out forgiveness for free. She needs to see the error of her ways and suffer some consequences. Otherwise, the NC will be broken at a moment's notice.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Matt,

The reason that I and others are confident that this is a PA is because of the type of red flags you describe;

1 - Generally men who are in affairs don't fool around with EA's for very long. The longer they've been communicating, the more likely the PA - and since it's been (at least) since April; the odds are very long against just an EA.

2 - The jovial communication they have with each other - the wink, the "hun" reference, and the kiss texts. This indicates a level of comfortable familiarity beyond an EA.

3 - The staying out late, the opportunities they have for contact at work; and l would guess that there are more instances that you can't account for her time.

All of this points to a PA; so at the very least, you should assume that it is, unless you get definitive proof that it isn't.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

A quick drink after work turned into a party until 2AM, deleting message, calling her boss "Hun", the "wink" from him and the "how are you" from her - all add up to a definite EA and likely a PA.

You have to go detective on her. Be prepared - you may not like what you find.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

My heart sinks when I read this stuff. Sorry your here but at least you made it "early". I found a bill with 2,500 texts in one month. Confronted right away. Denial, lies, etc. To make things worse (or not), she dumped OM right then and never text him again. She confessed two months later but that's another story. The point is, she had a one year PA with a guy at work. And other than the text and her "phone habits", (you know what I mean) I would have never known what was going on. And even though my confrontation made her quit, she was not caught and went on to screw another guy before her actions caught up with her. In the end things worked out for the best and we've been in R for a year. But that was just providence, not actions on my part. Listen to the advice here but filter it for your own situation because not all of it will be helpful for you. You know your wife better than anyone, or at least you did, so pick and choose but be patient, that's the hard part. Most of the sleuthing advice here would not have helped me at all (VARs, etc.). But a keylogger on her phone would have caught her if I would have waited and watched instead of confronting. Be careful, and good luck.


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## lacey99 (Oct 18, 2013)

even if it is only an EA, still can be as tough and sucks, even if you are willing to R...if it "just an EA" eventually it will prob. turn into a PA...my WH had a short EA almost PA - I was asked by my sister -would it have changed things for me?-not really, a betrayal from him and the trust is still broken and it is still is just as hard dealing with the lying, sneaking and lack of respect for "us", TT we're there, the mindmovies, rollercoaster etc....I never had the chance to gather evidence when it started, get support from TAM-wish I could have, I also never thought of exposing/conforting HER (which I think would have helped me), found this site only recently...TAm is very helpful because you don't know what/where this/you are heading...but start immediately with the stuff everyone has suggested above...it sucks but you r in the right place to figure it out.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Another thing Matt,

A's with a co-worker or a boss are the worst case scenario because of ease of contact.

But the good news is, especially in the case of him being her boss, is that you have a much larger arsenal of weapons to use against them. Sexual harassment claims, lawsuits against the company, and the likelihood of him loosing his job. Her quitting her job should be a foregone conclusion; unless you don't won't to even consider R.

So you're in a position to blow this up big time, and to make the POSOM regret forever, that he picked the wrong man's wife to bang.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

What the others said. The boss's company needs to know about this. HR needs to get involved. Stop being so concerned about others. Your ONLY concern should be your children and you. You need to have a F'em all mentality, taking no prisoners. And have no delusions: SHE CAUSED ALL OF THIS!

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Matt:

This sounds like a full blown Pa.

My former affair partner is still gaslighting her poor husband. 

He was informed by my wife. Yet, the AP claims we only met for coffee and that my wife is a crazy, jealous, paranoid, possessive, boetch. 

He even told my wife he would sue her for harassment, if she contacted him again. 

His wife is an experienced serial cheater. She pushed for a physical connection. Pushed and pushed and pushed. 

I was wrong, but this guy's wife is no innocent delicate flower, and she is extremely manipulative and genius at getting people to feel sorry for her and do her bidding. 

In fact, my wife found emails in which the AP was instructing me on how to cheat without getting caught. I am glad my wife saw those, too. 

The APs advice was: Pay cash. Have a hidden bank account, don't get too dressed up on days you meet with the AP, etc, 




matt83 said:


> Hi, I'm new to these forums and was just looking for some advice. Judging by the amount of threads on here of a similar nature I guess this is a fairly common problem. I feel my wife is having an Emotional Affair and just wanted other opinions. My wife and I have been married for six years and have three wonderful children, however, recently I've noticed her phone to be glued to her hand more than normal. It turns out she has been texting and whatsapping her boss. I thought nothing of this at the time and just brushed it off. The other day I noticed her deleting all of her texts and whatsapp messages to him and asked her why? She said she didn't like his profile picture so deletes them everyday. That's when I first started to question what was going on. A few weeks passed and on Monday night she went out for a few drinks with her work colleagues but didn't come home till 2am in the morning. She quickly got in to bed and being quite drunk went straight to sleep. I checked her phone for texts and whatsapp messages but there were none. About ten minutes later her phone vibrated. It was her boss. The message was a very simple wink emoticon. I left it there and when I checked again in the morning, it too had been deleted. This concerned me so as the phone contact is in my name I logged in to my account to view my bills and it turns out she has been messaging him since at least April from what I can see. In the month of July alone she sent him over 800 texts. This morning my wife and I were intimate with each other and I left bed at bang on 8am. After getting my self ready for work I heard downstairs as my wife headed up. She had left her phone on the side. This was my chance. I went straight to her whatsapp and at 8.01 she had messaged him saying 'morning hun, how are you? Xx'. I haven't challenged her about this yet but have been going c ray at work about it. An I overreacting to this or does this seem to be cause for concern? Any advice would be appreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

This is a physical affair. Your wife is sleeping with her boss.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Matt, So sorry you are here.
Yes it an EA-not a maybe EA. How many women do you text in that manner?
Might be a PA, and others are correct it is likely a PA.
What is your line in the sand? And before you say you really need to think.
She is being deceptive. She is being inappropriately familiar with someone outside of your marriage. She is taking time away from your relationship to spend with a third party. These are all lines that have already been crossed regardless of any physical relationship that might be going on. 
You are being very trusting and I bet that is just your nature. Guess what-she knows that too. Learn as much as you need to know to make the decision you want to live with. Lots of folks on this board can provide you with the information you need to gather evidence.
Remember her actions are solely the result of her choices.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

It's pretty clear, as others have correctly deduced, that your wife has a husband (babysitter) and a boyfriend who is also her boss. 

What do boyfriends do? Yeah it's physical with about 99.99% certainty. 

Does she go out often at night? Have lots of female friends?

Don't confront without evidence - it'll just go deep underground. 
Act confidently around her. Don't be mopey or sullen. 

NEVER beg her for anything. 

How is your sex life with her? Changed much in the last few months? 

Are you both financially secure? Have family nearby for support?

Get moving today and be vigilant. VAR The car immediately and find out as much as you can about her boss - if he has a wife find out her contact info but don't contact her now - wait for more intel.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is the standard set of instructions. Get this done now.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

I don't know if other browsers save the passwords where you can view them but you should be able to google and find out!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Find the newbie thread.

What kind of phone does she have, hope its an iphone, you may be ble to recover her deleted texts.

Is she also calling him according to the bills?


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## onestepatatime (Oct 23, 2013)

These people give good advice. Don't confront her yet. Wait until you have more evidence. While it is likely she is cheating in one way or another, it isn't enough to confront her with.


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

No man invests that kind of time (800 texts/month etc.) in a relationship in which he is not getting serviced.

Period. Just doesn't happen.

It's a PA.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

1. Don't confront.
2. VAR in car and perhaps another place in the house.
3. A GPS on her car as well.

I would also look at your wife's company's rules on this type of behavior. Some companies dismiss this kind of stuff and other are fairly strict on bosses and their subordinates having relationships.

Get ready to expose this.

If you find out more don't confront right away.

Get your ducks lined up first.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> 1. Don't confront.
> 2. VAR in car and perhaps another place in the house.
> 3. A GPS on her car as well.
> 
> ...


Is her boss married or have a girlfriend.

When the time is right expose that also.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

matt83 said:


> It was her boss. The message was a very simple wink emoticon.


*Sigh* Sorry, Matt. You know what you're dealing with.

Read this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

What do you know about her boss, is he married?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Matt,

Don't know if you're shell shocked or what, but it's helpful if you post responses. Otherwise the thread will go dead before too long; and assuming your post is legitimate, you'll miss out on a lot of good advice.

I see you're still on line, but are you still with us?


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Sorry for appearing to not reply. I have just come home from work and will respond little later. Thank you all very much so far for your responses.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Very good advice by the previous posters.

I think the shock and devastation you are experiencing should be addressed too.

Don't forget to take care of yourself. Avoid drinking, abuse, domestic violence, etc. That will come back against you.

As you sort this out, you need to work out a plan to deal with her betrayal on a personal level. It is often called the "180". It is a way to withdraw emotionally, improve your self-confidence, and give you the strength to cope. Pulling away emotionally will also help you get back to normal after the hellish events all come to light.

Work out. Read. Do not do anything to coddle or show her that you are weak or caring. Find a trusted friend or family member to talk with.

As you find the solid evidence, you MUST be ready to break it off with her. File for a D. Sounds very harsh, but it is the best way to end her emotional bond to him. You can always reconcile (R) after the D is underway.

Read about the phases of grief. It will come through the weeks/months/years ahead. 

READ THE LINK FOR THE BETRAYED AS PREVIOUSLY POSTED.

God bless you. Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Having read through the replies several times I am very humbled so many people have given up there time to write a reply. Thank you all very much.

Back on topic, I will try to answer as many questions as I can.

Yes, my Wife's boss is married with two children. Having reviewed the bills I can see very little in the way of voice calls made by her. It seems about once a month. Is there anyway to get incoming call information?

Spying on my wife's phone was my first thought but getting access to it is next to impossible. She has it on her 24/7.

I know all of my wife's passwords for her email (the account I know of) and her Facebook account. She will not use Facebook for this as I have previously caught her out with some pictures in her inbox so she will not do that again.

It would appear getting access to her Whatsapp messages is the key but I do not know a way of doing so without access to her phone.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

What about GNOs, toxic friends, does she go out a lot without you?

Do you know her friends? met them, socialized with them?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Find a way to meet up with the other mans wife and tell her what you saw on her phone and the amount of texts.

That way she can keep an eye on him.

You could buy a pen var and stick it in her purse.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

She was going out about three times a week a few months ago and also working three evenings a week a few months ago until the previous incident with her Facebook account.That particular night she was out with two single friends and I let her know what I thought about it and (rather stupidly, looking back on it) said I was more comfortable with her going out with her work colleagues as most of them are older with families of there own. I also told her I felt uncomfortable with her visiting nightclubs until 2am sometimes later. Monday night was her first night out since the Facebook incident and while at the time I was happier she was going out with work I was still unhappy that she ended up in a nightclub until 2am after our previous discussion. She is out tonight at the Cinema with a Female Friend.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

matt83 said:


> It would appear getting access to her Whatsapp messages is the key but I do not know a way of doing so without access to her phone.


Time to get creative. She sleeps right? She showers doesn't she? If you only have 30 seconds to get to it, take it and drive off in your car.

If you can't get it by any other means, you'll just have to ask her for it.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

badmemory said:


> She showers doesn't she?


She takes her phone into the shower with her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Time to get creative. She sleeps right? She showers doesn't she?
> 
> If you can't get it by any other means, you'll just have to ask her for it.


And if she gives you crap about invading her privacy tell her we should both have each others passwords and their is no privacy in a marriage.

If it get's to that point you may have to threaten the polygraph route.
You may get the parking lot confession jmo.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

matt83 said:


> She takes her phone into the shower with her.


I'm sorry Matt, but if that wasn't such a indicator that she's obviously cheating on you, I'd have to laugh. That alone is enough reason to demand it from her.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

badmemory said:


> If you only have 30 seconds to get to it, take it and drive off in your car.
> 
> If you can't get it by any other means, you'll just have to ask her for it.


I have thought about taking it out of her bag before work and letting her leave without it. What makes this more difficult is I still have a 2, 3 and 5 year old to look after and get to bed before she realises and comes back.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Damn, I refresh the page and another family destroyed by another cheating woman. I want to help, and may come back to this thread, but honestly, I'm at a loss.

I just don't know what's gone wrong with the world.

So sorry you are here, my man. You are right - it's an affair.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does Polygrapgh Route mean?


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Find a way to meet up with the other mans wife and tell her what you saw on her phone and the amount of texts.
> 
> That way she can keep an eye on him.
> 
> You could buy a pen var and stick it in her purse.


This is possible, I do have their address.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

matt83 said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but what does Polygrapgh Route mean?


Going for a polygraph/lie detector test.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Going for a polygraph/lie detector test.


Ah, Thank ou for clearing that up.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

matt83 said:


> This is possible, I do have their address.


Wow that is good if she is a stay at home mom, maybe take a half day off work, make sure om is gone.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

matt83 said:


> I have thought about taking it out of her bag before work and letting her leave without it. What makes this more difficult is I still have a 2, 3 and 5 year old to look after and get to bed before she realises and comes back.


Hide it.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

matt83 said:


> I have thought about taking it out of her bag before work and letting her leave without it. What makes this more difficult is I still have a 2, 3 and 5 year old to look after and get to bed before she realises and comes back.



We see that very often here - a wayward wife using the husband as a free baby sitter while she's acting as a barfly. 

There's very little doubt that she's cheating on you and being physical about it. 

You need to prepare your mindset to be that you aren't afraid to put an end to the marriage (since you have none but in name anyway). This is your very best chance at saving it. 

Get moving with the 180. 

Is there any way you can arrange for someone to babysit your kids while you follow her tonight? Have you VARed her car yet?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

matt83 said:


> I have thought about taking it out of her bag before work and letting her leave without it. What makes this more difficult is I still have a 2, 3 and 5 year old to look after and get to bed before she realises and comes back.


If she guards her phone like you describe, she'll probably discover it before she gets out of the drive way.

Look, you're not the first BS who'd have to ask their spouse for their phone. You have good reason to, don't worry about her reaction. Just be sure that once you ask for it, she has no opportunity to delete anything.

A polygraph of course is a lie detector test. I would only recommend that option when all surveillance methods are out of play. And when it's a situation where you've got enough evidence of the EA and you're trying to determine whether it went physical.

Are you a stay at home dad? Sorry if I missed that.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> We see that very often here - a wayward wife using the husband as a free baby sitter while she's acting as a barfly.
> 
> There's very little doubt that she's cheating on you and being physical about it.
> 
> ...


No, I have yet to VARed her car yet but will be picking some up tomorrow from Maplin.

Organising Babysitters is difficult as I am estranged from my parents, Her mum is disabled and also out eldest which makes finding babysitters extremely difficult.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Are you a stay at home dad? Sorry if I missed that.


No, I am am employed full time Monday to Friday and my Wife is Employed part time Wednesday and Fridays 6pm till 11pm and Sunday mornings 6:45 am till 12:45 pm. Most weeks she will do at least two extra shifts Overtime too. Apart from Saturdays we very rarely see each other for more than 30 mins at a time.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

matt83 said:


> No, I am am employed full time Monday to Friday and my Wife is Employed part time Wednesday and Fridays 6pm till 11pm and Sunday mornings 6:45 am till 12:45 pm. Most weeks she will do at least two extra shifts Overtime too. Apart from Saturdays we very rarely see each other for more than 30 mins at a time.


OK, that's another marriage stressor, but we often find that being a SAHD is an even worse scenario.


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## thraher68 (Oct 31, 2013)

matt83 said:


> Hi, I'm new to these forums and was just looking for some advice. Judging by the amount of threads on here of a similar nature I guess this is a fairly common problem. I feel my wife is having an Emotional Affair and just wanted other opinions. My wife and I have been married for six years and have three wonderful children, however, recently I've noticed her phone to be glued to her hand more than normal. It turns out she has been texting and whatsapping her boss. I thought nothing of this at the time and just brushed it off. The other day I noticed her deleting all of her texts and whatsapp messages to him and asked her why? She said she didn't like his profile picture so deletes them everyday. That's when I first started to question what was going on. A few weeks passed and on Monday night she went out for a few drinks with her work colleagues but didn't come home till 2am in the morning. She quickly got in to bed and being quite drunk went straight to sleep. I checked her phone for texts and whatsapp messages but there were none. About ten minutes later her phone vibrated. It was her boss. The message was a very simple wink emoticon. I left it there and when I checked again in the morning, it too had been deleted. This concerned me so as the phone contact is in my name I logged in to my account to view my bills and it turns out she has been messaging him since at least April from what I can see. In the month of July alone she sent him over 800 texts. This morning my wife and I were intimate with each other and I left bed at bang on 8am. After getting my self ready for work I heard downstairs as my wife headed up. She had left her phone on the side. This was my chance. I went straight to her whatsapp and at 8.01 she had messaged him saying 'morning hun, how are you? Xx'. I haven't challenged her about this yet but have been going c ray at work about it. An I overreacting to this or does this seem to be cause for concern? Any advice would be appreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

matt83 said:


> No, I have yet to VARed her car yet but will be picking some up tomorrow from Maplin.
> 
> Organising Babysitters is difficult as I am estranged from my parents, Her mum is disabled and also out eldest which makes finding babysitters extremely difficult.


I started a post and then got called away - since I don't see my post I'll post again:

Does her phone have a "find my phone" function?
Can you get a close friend to follow her tonight?

If you can't - first VAR the car then be completely calm and dispassionate - no anger, screaming, raising your voice etc. 

1. Take her phone into your possession the next time you get a chance. You can try a ruse if you must "I left my phone at work and I need to make a call let me have yours" (If you can't just work up the spine to just ask for it outright/take it)

2. Demand the passcode - she doesn't get the phone back until you have it. (by the way, have a VAR recording the confrontation in case she calls the cops) Just keep repeating " You're not getting the phone back until I have the passcode"

3. Meet with the OMwife asap and let her know what's going on. 

You need to get to the bottom of this asap.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Does her phone have a "find my phone" function?
> 
> Possibly. It is an Android handset. Wouldnt know how to work it though.
> 
> ...


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Matt, you sound like you are afraid of her. When men are afraid of their wives, or of upsetting them, especially when they have strong reason to upset her(and you certainly do), you further erode any respect she has for you.

Your wife is up to no good. She knows it. You know it.

I would calmly and assertively, demand her phone, and tell her she's staying in tonight to discuss what you find on it. Her reaction is all the answer you need.

These guys may tell you to go into stealth mode, and it has merit if you have a strong hunch but no evidence. You have evidence but I think you want to do that because it's easier than confronting her.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Does she absolutely need to work? It appears she's found it easy to forget about you and her responsibilities to your marriage since you both just pass each other on the way out. 

You'd think she'd be eager to spend time with you instead of going out with her friends. 

BTW - ask her what movie she's going to see. Then read a review of it on IMDB - ask her a casual question or two about it after she gets home. Amnesia will rule if I'm not mistaken.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> These guys tell you to go into stealth mode but I think you want to do that because it's easier than confronting her.


I can certainly see your point, if I could guarentee finding something on the phone then I would go down this route, but surely demanding her phone and then finding that she has deleted all the messages is going to make her even harder to pin down?


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Does she absolutely need to work? It appears she's found it easy to forget about you and her responsibilities to your marriage since you both just pass each other on the way out.


Unfortunately we cannot survive on my salary alone so, yes, it is necessary. We agreed on her working evenings until the kids are all at School at which point a day time job would be more appropriate.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

matt83 said:


> I can certainly see your point, if I could guarentee finding something on the phone then I would go down this route, but surely demanding her phone and then finding that she has deleted all the messages is going to make her even harder to pin down?


You don't seem to have any other real means of getting info so the direct approach is necessary. Sure, she may have deleted the msgs and go deeper underground. 

But a well placed VAR in the car and in any room she's likely to make calls from can be a boon to you. And she'll be on notice that you're no fool. 

Be sure to follow up with the OMW. Again, no hysterics. The story is that you are concerned with the amount of texting going on between them and since your wife has been secretive and not forthcoming, you're wondering if she's noticed anything too. 

That gives you an extra set of eyes.

BTW don't apologize to her or anyone for trying to protect your marriage and family. Not at all.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

matt83 said:


> I can certainly see your point, if I could guarentee finding something on the phone then I would go down this route, but surely demanding her phone and then finding that she has deleted all the messages is going to make her even harder to pin down?


Then do this - tell her you've planned a night in with you and the family, so her plans need to change. You need to back her into a corner to see what her reaction is.

The REACTION is what you need to see when you push into her plans and disrupt her good time.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> You don't seem to have any other real means of getting info so the direct approach is necessary. Sure, she may have deleted the msgs and go deeper underground.
> 
> But a well placed VAR in the car and in any room she's likely to make calls from can be a boon to you. And she'll be on notice that you're no fool.
> 
> ...


THIS!!!

You are now in a fight for your marriage. You need to stamp this out before the really heavy fog sets in. 

Absolutely, tell your wife that there is an inappropriate closeness to her boss, and it is NOT acceptable. Make it absolutely clear that you will not allow for or forgive adultery. Make her know right now that you will NOT accept sloppy seconds from anyone, especially your own wife.

Tell the OM's wife that you are concerned about red flags between her husband and your wife, and ask that she help you keep a watchful eye on things, and let you know if anything looks bad on her end.

You have to DESTROY the little flirty fantasy illusion cheaters have.

You dawdle at your own peril.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Be sure to follow up with the OMW. Again, no hysterics. The story is that you are concerned with the amount of texting going on between them and since your wife has been secretive and not forthcoming, you're wondering if she's noticed anything too.
> 
> That gives you an extra set of eyes.





InlandTXMM said:


> Tell the OM's wife that you are concerned about red flags between her husband and your wife, and ask that she help you keep a watchful eye on things, and let you know if anything looks bad on her end.


Don't let your wife know you're gong to do this.

Speak to his wife. Tell her everything you know (especially whatsapp). Make sure she doesn't do or say anything directly to OM either to tip him off.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Wow Matt - I am SO sorry. 
If you tell OM's wife she may bring it out in the open prematurely. Do you know her well? If she agreed to hold back she could gather evidence too. 
Look in the deleted box in her email, sometimes they forget to empty it. 
Let her go out w/o complaining - if she comes home drunk you could snoop once she's asleep. Is phone passworded?
Hire a PI for a few hours on one of her nights out? Could get your answer quickly. 

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

matt83 said:


> I have thought about taking it out of her bag before work and letting her leave without it. What makes this more difficult is I still have a 2, 3 and 5 year old to look after and get to bed before she realises and comes back.


I agree with Azteca: hide it. Then when she comes back looking for her phone, PLAY DUMB-just tell her you haven't seen it (and get ready for the mother of all meltdowns when she starts freaking out).

But most of all, PLAY DUMB for now. don't let on that you suspect anything...she is counting on your ignorance.

And if you do use VARs, GPS, keyloggers or even nanny cams, GET RID OF THEM ONCE YOU HAVE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE. Do not, under ANY circumstances, show your hand or reveal your sources. If this does go to divorce, it could be used against you.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you for all of your input tonight, it has given me plenty of insight in to how to approach this. My Wife should be back soon so I guess it is Action Stations. I'll post back tomorrow with any updates. Again, Thank you all very much.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I don't see the urge for secrecy this time, guys. He has seen inappropriate messages and her behavior all but screams PA.

The only reason to gather evidence now, IMO, is IF he needs it for divorce / custody hearings in a state that gives a damn about infidelity.

Other than that, he needs to END IT, not creep around acting like his wife. What happened to manhood that we can't just assert boundaries and hold her to them?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I initially missed that he's from the UK

I think divorce is a lengthy process unless infidelity is provable. So perhaps solid evidence is necessary in order to short shank her.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

At this point you also need to know what your 'deal breakers' are.

Once you determine that, deciding on how to proceed when you get solid proof, or no more proof at all is up to you.

Looks like you didn't get much into the prior FB incident, but it seems like something "fishy" happened before that was taken care of by rug sweeping. 

You can't do much about that now, but you have a chance now to make things right for you.

Good luck.


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## matt83 (Oct 31, 2013)

Quick update on how things went last night. Asked for her phone and she gave it willingly, presumably because she had already wiped the messages from earlier in the day. Last night as she was sleeping I managed to get hold of all of her Whatsapp backups for the week. Trouble being, the backups are made at 4am and by then she had obviously erased the messages. I did manage to get hold of the wink emoticon message though.

Do you guys think I should try and confront her tonight or contact her bosses wife for an extra set of eyes? Who knows, maybe he doesn't so readily delete his messages? Have never met her before though and not sure how she would react.

Going to get the VARs today, although with seemingly very few phone calls between them not sure what info I can uncover with them.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

In the past VARS have caught conversations with lovers, relatives, coworkers, and unfortunately a few sounds of sexual activity. So phone calls are not the only target here. 

Don't contact the OMW until you have VARs in place. Panic will ensue once the OMW is put on alert and phone convos will likely pick up - you may even discover that burner phones are involved. 

Play your cards right. Be confident. Don't act hurt or glum. Let her see that you don't NEED her but you do WANT a faithful wife.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

matt83 said:


> Going to get the VARs today, although with seemingly very few phone calls between them not sure what info I can uncover with them.


If you checked her texts you'd come up blank as she's using whatsapp. Your wife could be using Skype or a whole host of other apps to make calls; no record on your bill, or her phone - just data usage.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

> Do you guys think I should try and confront her tonight or contact her bosses wife for an extra set of eyes? Who knows, maybe he doesn't so readily delete his messages? Have never met her before though and not sure how she would react.
> 
> Going to get the VARs today, although with seemingly very few phone calls between them not sure what info I can uncover with them.


This is very, very tricky. The OMW can also be in a fog and will not believe you without concrete proof. They will often confront their husband (OM) immediately. Then everyone goes underground, or more likely the OM will lie his POS a$$ off and she'll believe him. Either way you're screwed. As with your wife, proof is key.

As for the VARs, my wife hardly ever talked to the POSOM on the phone. Could never figure that out. She can't explain it, "we just didn't" is all she'll say. He was never in our house and he was never in her car, they used separate cars or his car so a hundred VARs wouldn't have helped. My WW bragged to a friend about "getting her needs met" by someone else. Loose lips sink ships.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I was going to say she might have taken the A underground already since she's been covering her tracks for a while. She now knows you are focused on her phone so she's stopped using it. My guess is a burner phone.

Plus this is her boss, right? They are seeing each other at work. A VAR in the car may be your only solution now. That and surprise visits when she least expects them.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

InlandTXMM said:


> I was going to say she might have taken the A underground already since she's been covering her tracks for a while. She now knows you are focused on her phone so she's stopped using it. My guess is a burner phone.
> 
> Plus this is her boss, right? They are seeing each other at work. A VAR in the car may be your only solution now. That and surprise visits when she least expects them.


And if this POSOM has done this before with other married women, he may be coaching her on how not to leave a trail and get caught.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

What is all this talk about OMW about? He doesn't have anything yet. He has basically nothing to go on other than red flags. Stop telling him to confront.

matt what type of phone does your wife have? iPhone? Android? Blackberry?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

When you mentioned the face book thing, what did she do that caused a problem? Reason why I'm asking is if she did something inappropriate back then and now it's the hundreds of texts to her boss, then this isn't the first time she's been less than honest with you.

I think that this many texts to another man and being her boss is no excuse is way wrong and your the one that's taking it on the chin for it. It's obvious that your wife doesn't have or respect the boundaries of your marriage and your the one paying for it. So my question is how long are you going to let this go on? If you keep turning the other way, it's only going to get worse. 

If it was me, I would let her know that you know about all the texting and texting another man is no way for a married woman to conduct herself and if she wants to remain married to you, it either stops or you file. Do this in a way that she knows that your dead serious. Let her know that if it continues then she will be the one to pay the price for it. 

What would her reaction be if you were the one texting another woman? You think she would put up with it? You know her better than me so you know the answer.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

Matt,
I would not tell his wife just yet. I definitely think you should in the future, but not yet. There is little possibility she will be able to remain quiet about it to her husband, understandably. Your only hope would be that she, too, was already suspicious and being quiet and gathering evidence, but I don't think you can risk assuming that. 

Do the VAR and GPS if you can. When she's asleep, go through her car because the burner phone might be kept in there, if there is one. If you are going to go snooping through her car in the night, make sure the dog doesn't run out and things like that. I'm serious, you have to think like you are a shadow. 

Have you checked credit card or debit card statements. What about receipts for things like prepaid credit cards like you buy at walmart. Look for those kinds of things in the car or amongst things she throws away. 

And just watch her during simple times. watch everything, try to notice if she seems to be getting into a certain cabinet or drawer, things like that. There are so many things being hidden and they are being hidden "somewhere". These cheaters aren't operating in a parallel universe, the tools of the cheating are "somewhere"....the credit cards, the money, the phone, the receipts.I'm only saying this because I know myself, I got into a weird mindset where I almost attached wizard like traits to my ex and his AP, and there were times I thought I as just not as smart and stealthy as them and I would never be able to catch them. But they are not superheroes able to make things disappear. They are stupid humans, that's all.


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## Bamzor (Aug 15, 2012)

Matt if you want, let us know how its going. Good or not so good. Hope all is well.


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