# Struggling to ask out this girl and my fear of rejection



## Houstondad

Hey gang,
Yes, I've been protecting my vulnerability for nearly my entire life. I've always needed the obvious from the opposite sex before I ask her out. I have never approached a woman I've never met and strike up a conversation that immediately leads up to a date. Ever.
But I've been making an effort to embrace that vulnerability. To face my fear and give it a shot. If I get turned down, it's the same as not asking. But it's been a slow and painful process!

There's a younger co-worker (let's call her Claire)at my work who works on the opposite end of our building. I've always thought she was attractive, but it wasn't until one of my close co-workers who works next to me told me she spoke with her and suggested to Claire that she should go out with me (and how I'm a fun guy, blah, blah). And Claire agreed and said that would be fun. Once I've learned about that, my interests in her has gone up. Because of that "obvious" interest in me. 
But I don't feel it's completely obvious. I have doubts that she is really not interested in me at all because our interactions have been brief and infrequent. She's younger. Attractive. And despite me being fit and a fun guy, I've always felt I was just average. Self esteem is not where it should be in that dept.

At first, I thought I would wait a week or so before asking her out. I didn't want her to think there was a connection between my friend trying to set us up and me asking her out. The day after learning she was interested, a buddy of mine said what are you waiting for? That she's totally given me the green light and just go for it. And if I wait too long, she'll lose interest! Oh crap! I kinda panicked.
I tried going to her room to strike up a conversation and ask her out, but she's wasn't there. On Monday, I went down to the 8th grade lunch because she has lunch duty at that time and I walked right up to her. She said "Hey HD" and we had a great conversation and she was smiling the entire time. Kinda cool she knew me by name because in our brief interactions, I never introduced myself. (Need to work on that)
Unfortunately, I couldn't seal the deal because I was suddenly called to take care of a student meltdown and told her I had to go. She smiled and said bye (Yes, we work in a school. And yes, I'm a school counselor. Ironic, eh?)

Today, she was in trainings all day. When the training ended, I went down there to find her and ask her out. She wasn't there. Turns out she was doing tutoring for students after school so I figured another day has passed once again. My buddy and I were outside my office BSing and low and behold she's coming down the hallway towards us. He realizes what's up and proceeds into our office leaving me outside. I turn towards her as she about to open a door. I ask her how her day has been and she responds it was a good day and quickly enters the door. That was it. My intention was to see how her day was and then goes straight to asking her out Thursday. Blown opportunity again and I felt rejected. if she likes me I thought why not stick around?

Turns out that door leads to the restroom. No, I did not follow her into the RR(haha), nor did I wait outside. That would have been creepy. She did seem in a hurry and a bit agitated, so I don't even know if it would have been worth starting off with asking her out. My friend says she probably had to pee really bad and to email her and ask her out. I said no. But I felt a sense of rejection because she didn't stop and talk. Maybe she really had to go to the restroom immediately. 
I'm going to give it another shot to asking her out face to face. And I think I'm waiting for the perfect moment to ask her out when no one is around. I just don't want her to feel uncomfortable by asking her out in front of others. But this is delaying what I am trying to do.
And despite suggestions of emailing her at work, I've tried to stay on the path of face to face interaction despite it being tough. I'm told if I wait too long, that we'll become "friends" and I lose her interests in me. Yikes.
I'm just starting to run out of ideas and feel like the universe has other plans with this one. I just don't know what to do.


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## Paradise

ummmm, Houston, we have a problem! STOP THINKING SO MUCH! You get any worse and you're going to start sounding like ME! 

I think myself out of this crap all the time. Just go down and ask the poor girl out. Why don't you call her at home tonight? You will regret it if you don't!


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## Pbartender

Paradise said:


> ummmm, Houston, we have a problem! STOP THINKING SO MUCH! You get any worse and you're going to start sounding like ME!
> 
> I think myself out of this crap all the time. Just go down and ask the poor girl out. Why don't you call her at home tonight? You will regret it if you don't!


Some people like to life a little tougher than it is.


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## Feel-Free

Thanks Houstondad, you mentioned 2 aspects that are good and important: 

1. You want to keep your interactions with Claire face to face.
2. You have some fear around the idea that becoming friends = no real dating/relationship/sex.

My advice: 1. YES. Keep it face to face. Keep it casual, friendly and effortless. Consider that you just want to get to know this girl first, and then see if you can/want to take it further. She has to get to know you too. A 'date' is just one way to get to know each other. Another way is to begin gathering useful info about her: what does she like to do outside of school? What does she like to eat? And, obviously, is she dating/in love with anyone currently? 

Notice how she responds in a 'feeling way' as you ask her these kinds of questions. Is she genuinely interested in talking/answering or is she hesitant and awkward? Look at her face and body signals and over a short amount of time, you'll get your answers and a better idea of whether or not you both want to 'date' each other.

2. Fear of friendship: DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE HER FRIEND. Most successful relationships, including my 22 year marriage, begin on a 'trusted friendship' basis. When you think about it, there's really no better way to begin a relationship than as trusted friends.

Good luck, be patient, be kind, be authentic. Yes, tell her your truth. Have fun and let us know your results.


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## CEL

You know what you want to do. You know how to do it. You are talking yourself out of doing it. There will never be a perfect opportunity not in your mind. You want a quiet place with no one around and it to just magically move in that direction. Well that is not going to happen. Asking a girl out is awkward and messy. So embrace it and give it shot. Next time you see her just ask her don't try to get her to relax or do small talk. Just say hi you now would you like to go out sometime? Simple and honest.

Or you can keep waiting and being anxious about something you have no idea how it will turn out. Nothing anyone says is going to make it easier so bite the bullet ask the girl out and see what happens.


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## lisab0105

Do it just like this!!!!

Jim/Pam - YouTube


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## 3Xnocharm

I wish there was someone out there struggling like this over me!


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## CEL

3Xnocharm said:


> I wish there was someone out there struggling like this over me!


There may be the sad part is that girls lose a lot of dates and good times because otherwise good men don't ask them out.


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## Houstondad

Ya know, I've never looked at it from a female perspective. Girls: Do you ever feel tempted to send a guy flashing signals you're interested? Or do you prefer to play it cool and have him "chase" you? I guess it's hard to have to wait on a guy and he does nothing. Sounds like me doesn't it? But I'm really trying!!

I started seeking advice at the Athol Kay blog last week. The Alpha perspective. And I was getting slammed on that site for not being aggressive enough. They may be right? Or they may be partially correct. But I had to get a different perspective, and on here I think there's maybe more of a balance; especially from a woman's perspective.

From a woman's perspective, if you're having a discussion with another girl about a guy and you agree and say you'd like to go out with the guy (even though you've met briefly) is she saying it at just at a friendship level or could she be interested in more? And am I too late in asking her out? And when I do, is coffee or dinner fine? How about taking her to a festival? We have the Texas Renaissance Festival down here. It's a lot of fun!


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## Pbartender

Houstondad said:


> From a woman's perspective, if you're having a discussion with another girl about a guy and you agree and say you'd like to go out with the guy (even though you've met briefly) is she saying it at just at a friendship level or could she be interested in more? And am I too late in asking her out? And when I do, is coffee or dinner fine? How about taking her to a festival? We have the Texas Renaissance Festival down here. It's a lot of fun!


You're starting to sound like Malcolm in the Middle.

Stop thinking so much about it, and just go ask her. Then you'll know... and knowing is half the battle.


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## 3Xnocharm

I dont think you're too late YET, but dont wait much longer! She will think that you really are not interested.


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## CEL

Seriously quit thinking and get doing. You want a guarantee those don't exist in life. Until you ask you won't know.


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## Paradise

Geez...I'm glad you posted this thread. I do this exact same thing to myself all the time. I get thinking about every possible thing and then I am so worked up that it becomes a let-down if she says no...

Reading this thread is like living in my own head. Thanks for posting this. I need to work on some things...


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## 2galsmom

Houstondad your real issue here is that she is a coworker. If it goes south it will cause real problems for you.


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## Paradise

2galsmom said:


> Houstondad your real issue here is that she is a coworker. If it goes south it will cause real problems for you.


Or if it goes well you two will always have something in common to talk about and events to share and things to do. 

I'm trying to be more positive these days! :smthumbup:


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## COguy

Being it's your first attempt at finding your nuts, before you create an incredibly awkward situation at your workplace; can I suggest you go out and practice first?

You need to work on getting some confidence, from yourself and not from another person, right now you sound like a little sissy baby. Are you working out? Doing any activities? Sports? Dancing? Martial Arts?

Shoot some guns, smoke some cigars, use some power tools.......whatever you gotta do to find your manhood. Just accomplish something so you aren't second guessing yourself so much, and whatever you do stop over thinking. God forbid you succeed with this chick you're going to think yourself out of your erection.


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## survivorwife

Houstondad said:


> Ya know, I've never looked at it from a female perspective. Girls: Do you ever feel tempted to send a guy flashing signals you're interested? Or do you prefer to play it cool and have him "chase" you? I guess it's hard to have to wait on a guy and he does nothing. Sounds like me doesn't it? But I'm really trying!!
> 
> I started seeking advice at the Athol Kay blog last week. The Alpha perspective. And I was getting slammed on that site for not being aggressive enough. They may be right? Or they may be partially correct. But I had to get a different perspective, and on here I think there's maybe more of a balance; especially from a woman's perspective.
> 
> From a woman's perspective, if you're having a discussion with another girl about a guy and you agree and say you'd like to go out with the guy (even though you've met briefly) is she saying it at just at a friendship level or could she be interested in more? And am I too late in asking her out? And when I do, is coffee or dinner fine? How about taking her to a festival? We have the Texas Renaissance Festival down here. It's a lot of fun!


From a female perspective, if I am telling a female friend that I would like to go out with a guy, I am not merely looking for another "friend". For me, dating means dating, a chance to get to know him because I already find him interesting enough to get to know better. This won't happen if I find him unattractive or appears to have some other social issues that would rule out anything further than friendship. It would mean that I am considering the possibility of becoming a couple while in the process of getting to know each other.

And I always thought that men enjoying the "chase"...lol She has already put out the word that she is interested in you to date. What else do you expect her to do to reinforce that message? How would you feel if she walked up to you and asked you for a date? Perhaps she fears rejection as well and found a way to get the message to you (via the friend) to see what you would do about it.


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## Hardtohandle

HD

I could be wrong here, but I would just be honest and incorporate the nervousness into the asking out. 

Something along the lines of " Look, I've been looking to ask you out for over a week but I was too chicken sh1t to do it. But I'm just taking the plunge now and asking you.. Would you like to go out."

If she blows you off follow her into the bathroom next time and toss eggs at her window on halloween. Just kidding..

The girl I am dating now wondered why I didn't try to kiss her when we first met for coffee. 

I told her *"I figured if I tried to kiss you and you felt I was too forward I would have blown the whole thing. So I figured if I just waited for the first date and told you up front what my intentions were you now know."*

On the first date I told her, *"Look, we are in the city and I will probably hold your hand and put my arms around you. I don't want someone to think we are brother and sister. At some point in the night if I don't blow this date I will probably try to sneak a kiss or two, or three. If ANY of this bothers you just let me know and I won't"*

Needless to say it all worked out.

HD, the first few times are a bit rough. But be yourself and honest.. It worked for me at least. Again I think many women expect to hear some BS line. So coming at them straight seems to throw them off. I've been told that me being honest was being ****y.. Go figure.. But they liked it nonetheless.

Or as was mentioned. 

Try some online dating and meeting up for just coffee to get a few test runs in..


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## 3Xnocharm

Hardtohandle said:


> HD
> 
> I could be wrong here, but I would just be honest and incorporate the nervousness into the asking out.
> 
> Something along the lines of " Look, I've been looking to ask you out for over a week but I was too chicken sh1t to do it. But I'm just taking the plunge now and asking you.. Would you like to go out."
> 
> If she blows you off follow her into the bathroom next time and toss eggs at her window on halloween. Just kidding..
> 
> The girl I am dating now wondered why I didn't try to kiss her when we first met for coffee.
> 
> I told her *"I figured if I tried to kiss you and you felt I was too forward I would have blown the whole thing. So I figured if I just waited for the first date and told you up front what my intentions were you now know."*
> 
> On the first date I told her, *"Look, we are in the city and I will probably hold your hand and put my arms around you. I don't want someone to think we are brother and sister. At some point in the night if I don't blow this date I will probably try to sneak a kiss or two, or three. If ANY of this bothers you just let me know and I won't"*
> 
> Needless to say it all worked out.
> 
> HD, the first few times are a bit rough. But be yourself and honest.. It worked for me at least. Again I think many women expect to hear some BS line. So coming at them straight seems to throw them off. I've been told that me being honest was being ****y.. Go figure.. But they liked it nonetheless.
> 
> Or as was mentioned.
> 
> Try some online dating and meeting up for just coffee to get a few test runs in..


I really really like your approach!


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## Jellybeans

I personally am a strong proponent AGAINST workplace dating (because to me, work and real life should be kept separate because of obvious entanglements and pay/human resources/the possible fall out of a romance that doesn't work out and/or potentially a weird sexual harassment issue) BUT... (lol) if you are so inclined just say "Wanna grab a drink/dinner sometime?" 

It's easy peasy.


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## lisab0105

lisab0105 said:


> Do it just like this!!!!
> 
> Jim/Pam - YouTube


AGAIN! Just do this. No incessant talking. No wrangling your hands together. No nervous laughter. 6 WORDS OR LESS. Be confident. 

Straight forward and take charge. She will probably react the exact same way my Pam does ;o) 

Just f*cking do it already! :smthumbup:


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## COguy

Hardtohandle said:


> HD
> 
> I could be wrong here, but I would just be honest and incorporate the nervousness into the asking out.
> 
> Something along the lines of " Look, I've been looking to ask you out for over a week but I was too chicken sh1t to do it. But I'm just taking the plunge now and asking you.. Would you like to go out."


That's good. That way she knows you're a wussbag up front and doesn't have to waste a date before she puts you in the friend zone.

You don't need to make up a story to ask a girl out. You don't need to explain yourself. You just do it. Anything less than that shows low value.


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## Houstondad

Ouch. I figured it was only a matter of time before I was called a *****. I'm not an alpha and I'm not a *****. I would argue somewhere in between. If I was a *****, I'd just never approach her at all. But I'm trying...and learning what to do better.
And Jellybeans- I usually follow that philosophy too. But even though we work in the same school, we rarely see each other. Despite this, I know it's a risk, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

In hindsight, I can see where I could have been more aggressive and ask her out. In the lunchroom when her and I were talking, and I was suddenly called away and I said, " I have to go", I should have continued with and "how about we continue this over dinner Thursday @ 6?" 

So I've realized there isn't going to be perfect opportunities. I've now basically said **** it and I plan to skip the small talk/foreplay when I see her next time. 

Did I see her today? No. She was out sick.

A friend said I should email her and I said no. That would be cowardly, which I'm trying to avoid doing.
If she returns tomorrow, I am going down to her room and the only word coming out of my mouth before asking her out this weekend is "Hi".


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## lisab0105

Houstondad said:


> Ouch. I figured it was only a matter of time before I was called a *****. I'm not an alpha and I'm not a *****. I would argue somewhere in between. If I was a *****, I'd just never approach her at all. But I'm trying...and learning what to do better.
> 
> In hindsight, I can see where I could have been more aggressive and ask her out. In the lunchroom when her and I were talking, and I was suddenly called away and I said, " I have to go", I should have continued with and "how about we continue this over dinner Thursday @ 6?"
> 
> So I've realized there isn't going to be perfect opportunities. I've now basically said **** it and I plan to skip the small talk/foreplay when I see her next time.
> 
> Did I see her today? No. She was out sick.
> 
> A friend said I should email her and I said no. That would be cowardly, which I'm trying to avoid doing.
> If she returns tomorrow, I am going down to her room and the only word coming out of my mouth before asking her out this weekend is "Hi".


:smthumbup:


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## Houstondad

lisab0105 said:


> AGAIN! Just do this. No incessant talking. No wrangling your hands together. No nervous laughter. 6 WORDS OR LESS. Be confident.
> 
> Straight forward and take charge. She will probably react the exact same way my Pam does ;o)
> 
> Just f*cking do it already! :smthumbup:


Deal. Promise.


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## motherofone

You could be really sweet and bring her some soup for lunch. 

"Hey I know you were out sick yesterday and thought you may like some soup for lunch? 

Then ask her when she's feeling better if she would be interested in getting coffee sometime. "


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## RandomDude

> There's a younger co-worker (let's call her Claire)at my work who works on the opposite end of our building. I've always thought she was attractive, but it wasn't until one of my close co-workers who works next to me told me she spoke with her and suggested to Claire that she should go out with me (and how I'm a fun guy, blah, blah). And Claire agreed and said that would be fun. Once I've learned about that, my interests in her has gone up.


HOW MUCH EASIER COULD IT GET?!

Go for her already! :slap:


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## Paradise

Jellybeans said:


> I personally am a strong proponent AGAINST workplace dating (because to me, work and real life should be kept separate because of obvious entanglements and pay/human resources/the possible fall out of a romance that doesn't work out and/or potentially a weird sexual harassment issue) BUT... (lol) if you are so inclined just say "Wanna grab a drink/dinner sometime?"
> 
> It's easy peasy.


And where were you when I started dating my ex? Darn it!!!! 

Alright, now thinking back, maybe dating someone from work is NOT such a great idea!!! :rofl:


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## Houstondad

Well, I asked her out today. I decided to ask her out Sunday since my Friday and Saturday are full. (I felt tonight was too sudden. Just my opinion).
I asked her if she's ever been rock climbing before and she said she loves rock climbing. So then I said, Would you like to go this Sunday with me?
She said oh sorry, and the she was going to the Texas Rennasiance Festival that day.
So I told her maybe next weekend, just let me know. She responded with something about how rock climbing increases wrist strength. And said ok.
I wasn't prepared at all for that response. Looking back on it, I wonder if I should have not said "maybe next weekend" but more like, "let's do it next weekend" or something more definite so as to not leave things questionable.
There's another thing too: When I went to her room, I handed her my buddy's Halloween Party Invite. He's inviting everyone from work. And my friend who talks to her said she is thinking of going, but might need to find someone to go with. That could be another opportunity? I just don't know. Either I was too late and another guy is in the picture OR I was too late because she already has plans and I should ask her out again in the future.

What do you guys think? Cut my losses? Or is the door still open?

In the meantime, I am keeping my radar up for other girls I might be interested in.


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## 3Xnocharm

Houstondad said:


> Well, I asked her out today. I decided to ask her out Sunday since my Friday and Saturday are full. (I felt tonight was too sudden. Just my opinion).
> I asked her if she's ever been rock climbing before and she said she loves rock climbing. So then I said, Would you like to go this Sunday with me?
> She said oh sorry, and the she was going to the Texas Rennasiance Festival that day.
> So I told her maybe next weekend, just let me know. She responded with something about how rock climbing increases wrist strength. And said ok.
> I wasn't prepared at all for that response. Looking back on it, I wonder if I should have not said "maybe next weekend" but more like, "let's do it next weekend" or something more definite so as to not leave things questionable.
> There's another thing too: When I went to her room, I handed her my buddy's Halloween Party Invite. He's inviting everyone from work. And my friend who talks to her said she is thinking of going, but might need to find someone to go with. That could be another opportunity? I just don't know. Either I was too late and another guy is in the picture OR I was too late because she already has plans and I should ask her out again in the future.
> 
> What do you guys think? Cut my losses? Or is the door still open?
> 
> In the meantime, I am keeping my radar up for other girls I might be interested in.


Stop second guessing yourself, you did fine!  Congrats for finally finding your voice!


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## lisab0105

3Xnocharm said:


> Stop second guessing yourself, you did fine!  Congrats for finally finding your voice!


Ask her to go with you to the party.


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## CEL

Do the party invite and do it soon, before she makes plans.


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## Houstondad

I think I may have to listen to my gut to decide what to do. I have advice on here stating to ask her to go with me to the party. A buddy of mine says I've already indicated to her I am interested in her. Now it's her turn to make a move if she's interested. Even if it's little hints to me or my friends. My buddy says If I start right back up by asking her out again it will show I'm desperate. Ugh.

So, I don't think either advice is bad necessarily. I wish I knew this girl better to know which strategy would work. Ha! I guess that's why dating can be a pain in the ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy

Houstondad said:


> A buddy of mine says I've already indicated to her I am interested in her. Now it's her turn to make a move if she's interested. Even if it's little hints to me or my friends. My buddy says If I start right back up by asking her out again it will show I'm desperate.


Is your buddy single or does he date a lot of bottom of the barrel ladies?

You're doing too much thinking and not enough doing. Worrying about what will happen if X, Y, and Z shows you lack confidence.


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## MSC71

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLB-uMPj27s&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I think you should leave it alone and keep the polish on your professional standing at work. You just don't know, one of these people involved could be messing with you, and messing with her, trying to see you get all worked up about romance and so forth instead of paying attention to your work. Is there not video surveillance at your work? I think you should be less naive and perhaps a bit more paranoid. If you're not sufficiently motivated or skilled enough to snag a date seamlessly in the workplace you should let it alone, or understand that you could be charged with harassment or failing to perform duties during stated work hours. 
People mess with others just to mess with them. It sounds like you might be the subject of someone's entertainment (or worse, set-up for disciplinary action/dismissal even) vs. helping hand for social situation. Lose interest, quickly. I dunno, and I hate to say this to a psychologist, but you became interested in this woman after you learned of her interest in you. Wouldn't you rather be interested in someone because you noticed them first, and said wow, I owe it to myself to get her number RIGHT NOW, and didn't have to spend so much time and energy double-thinking the situation? Then even if the woman is not interested, you have the pleasure of knowing you did everything you could to pursue what it was you really wanted. It sounds like you want to succeed in getting a date with this woman, but it does not really sound like you are driven in any way by anything else beyond that point.


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## Hardtohandle

COguy said:


> That's good. That way she knows you're a wussbag up front and doesn't have to waste a date before she puts you in the friend zone.
> 
> You don't need to make up a story to ask a girl out. You don't need to explain yourself. You just do it. Anything less than that shows low value.


I don't know I wouldn't consider myself a wussbag. 

I've been shot at twice in my career and fought a man with a knife because he ambushed me and I couldn't pull out my gun. This was at 1 AM and I couldn't call for back up as I was a bit busy doing my best James T Kirk as I fought this guy Star Trek style. In the end I got blood all over me which wasn't mine and got yelled at by a LT because I didn't wait for back up.. 

I am far from a wussbag.. 
I just don't need to prove my manhood to anyone. As I am the guy running towards the gunshots as everyone else is running away.. 

Plus it's not made up, he would be telling the honest truth.

Again maybe where you come from you need to prove yourself for some reason. I don't need to do that.. and fvck any woman I need to prove myself to. Why would I want to go out with a shallow piece of garbage anyways ? 

Only persons I need to impress if anything is my kids..

I think your too much into MMSLP.. 

I say show your warm side to a woman, but you make sure when she is with you others know she is with you. There are more then enough d0uchebags in the streets who will test your manhood.


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## Paradise

Houston, I thought about you this weekend! I had a gal from work I was debating on asking out so I went ahead and did it after school on Friday. We went out Saturday night and had a nice chat. She's a fun lady but not one I would want to be in a relationship with but I did meet a new friend. 

My point is....I think just like you do! I get all worked up and overthink this stuff and after reading this thread I decided to take a break from it. I can only imagine how I was coming across to women. 

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would just let it go right now and see what she decides to do. Or, perhaps see if you can get a few people together to go rock climbing and then mention again that you and some others are going on Sunday. At least if she turns you down again then you know to stop and you have already made plans to have a lot of fun with others. No real loss.


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## Houstondad

Haha. Homemaker #1, my source is a friend I work closely with. She's not screwing with me. I'm 110% sure. And I liked her from the moment I saw her. But as everyone here has learned, my weakness has been proceeding to Step 2 with no idea if she likes me and asking her out. Finding out she liked me allowed me to eventually do Step 2. Would I like to have more confidence and not worry about rejection? Absolutely. It's what I'm trying to work on.

I'm a firm believer in balance. I know I haven't handled this with the kind of balance (with both beta and alpha qualities) like I would have hoped. I've read the MMSL book and currently the Mindful Action Plan. And I think there's some good advice in the books as well as ****ty ones. It all depends on the situation and girl, IMHO.
I found out Friday she will be going to the Halloween party with the teacher who teaches next to her room (another female). So I'm looking forward to seeing her there. And I will be talking and hitting on her. 
I originally was going to dress up as the FX character Wilfred(from the same named show), but have learned that many of my co-workers have no idea who he is. So the last thing I want anyone, including her, is to see me as a dog. haha
So I'm dressing up as Westley from the Princess Bride. What kinda of girl doesn't dig a character like that?

I left the ball in her court last week telling her to let me know if she'd like to go rock climbing with me next weekend. Not sure if she'll take that to heart if she's really interested, or if she would prefer that I ask her out again. I'm guessing the former. But I also like the idea of going rock climbing as a group too and inviting her. Just cautious that a group trip would be perceived as "friends"?


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## Paradise

Houstondad said:


> Just cautious that a group trip would be perceived as "friends"?


And there you go...again...Sorry, I just see myself when I read your posts. You are worried about how she perceives you. I get it. But at the same time we (and I am sure many other men and women out there) must get to the point where we say what we want and go after it and if it doesn't work then so be it. 

You may go through all of this worrying about what she thinks and you finally get her out on a date and she spits food while she talks and farts all night. :rofl:


----------



## Houstondad

Farting & Spitting.
Haha.. now that would be funny. 
You're right that I should do what I want and not worry how someone else would want it, especially when I have no idea what that is.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Your career is appropriate as you are certainly more cerebral. but in this instance use your other brain.

I don't think this workplace dating is problematic as you could easily not have to be in the same circles often.

Use the party as a way to get to know her better and seal the deal. Just work the room and when you get to her, compliment her costume and say "So when are we going rock climbing?" If she's evasive, forget it. Otherwise she'll tell you when she's free and LOCK IT IN.


----------



## COguy

Hardtohandle said:


> I don't know I wouldn't consider myself a wussbag.
> 
> I've been shot at twice in my career and fought a man with a knife because he ambushed me and I couldn't pull out my gun. This was at 1 AM and I couldn't call for back up as I was a bit busy doing my best James T Kirk as I fought this guy Star Trek style. In the end I got blood all over me which wasn't mine and got yelled at by a LT because I didn't wait for back up..
> 
> I am far from a wussbag..
> I just don't need to prove my manhood to anyone. As I am the guy running towards the gunshots as everyone else is running away..
> 
> Plus it's not made up, he would be telling the honest truth.
> 
> Again maybe where you come from you need to prove yourself for some reason. I don't need to do that.. and fvck any woman I need to prove myself to. Why would I want to go out with a shallow piece of garbage anyways ?
> 
> Only persons I need to impress if anything is my kids..
> 
> I think your too much into MMSLP..
> 
> I say show your warm side to a woman, but you make sure when she is with you others know she is with you. There are more then enough d0uchebags in the streets who will test your manhood.


Sounds like you're trying to prove it to me now.

Not sure that it's relevant since many of the hero types have a serious Beta personality, but if you're not afraid to run into gunshots, then why would you be afraid to ask out a woman? Why concoct a story about it instead of just saying, "Let's go out for a drink?"

Asking a girl out isn't proving anything to anyone. It's simply asking for what you want. That's not done to impress, and it's certainly not douchey. It shows self-confidence and value.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Be sure to chat her up and flirt at the party! And may I suggest that you maybe try asking her to grab lunch or drinks after work? The rock climbing may be too much to ask right off the bat. 

You're so cute, I am loving this thread.


----------



## Houstondad

So today I had a new student enroll and I bring him to the library to get him a pic ID. And out of the corner of my eye, it's her walking about 20 ft from me and she's looking at me and says Hi. I smile and finish helping my student with his ID. She then walks over to the front desk where I'm at to grab something and she says Hi to me again. I respond with a thoughtful, "Hey" smiling and then walk out with my student.
As he turns to head to class and I start making my way back to my office it's her coming around the corner towards me AGAIN. I give her a small wave and smile and she says Hello AGAIN. As I begin to stop, my principal down the hall calls out my name asking for assistance. (These interruptions never let up!)
Three acknowledging hellos in a 2 minute time span to each other tells me either it was her being friendly and it was all just a simple coincidence. Or she was sending obvious signals and I'm a total dumbass. I'm blind as a bat when it comes to reading a woman's signals. 
I felt that if she's interested that she should pursue me a little bit since I felt I put the ball in her court the last time we talked. The last thing I want is to come across as pushy, NEEDY or bugging her. And she KNOWS I'm interested when I tried asking her out. So why do I need to continue to prove it?
For what it's worth, I did play it very cool when we ran into each other today and did not come across nervous at all. I just wonder if it was friendly coincidence or it was more than that from her.

Also, from what it's worth, she's an "I" and not a "We" person. We did a campus/staff activity several weeks ago and apparently she's very reserved. So I wonder how that plays into all this?

My strategy is to wait till the party. I can't wait!  I'm definitely going to strike up a conversation with her and flirt like hell leading up to either rock climbing or something else.


----------



## MSC71

Three hellos. Ball is in your court. Better act fast


----------



## badcompany

Dude, really?
Three hello's? Get on it!


----------



## arbitrator

*Houstondad: I love you like a brother, but please don't take what I say literally!

Three hellos in one given sequence? She is just as equally interested in you as you are in her! Please don't be a Dumbass! Get this party started!*


----------



## arbitrator

*And the truth be known Houstondad, whenever the time comes for me to once again start seeking out female companionship, I'll probably be even more scared than you!

Don't sweat it and go for it!*


----------



## vi_bride04

So for my note taking....

If I am interested in a guy - purposely walking by him to say Hi in a huge flirty, big smile way, multiple times doesn't work, huh? 

After the 3rd time should I just stop him and ask him if he wants to get some coffee? 

(guys just remember, if a girl isn't interested and thinks you are, she will AVOID you at all costs)


----------



## Houstondad

vi_bride04 said:


> (guys just remember, if a girl isn't interested and thinks you are, she will AVOID you at all costs)


Yes! Why am I so terrible at reading those kind of signals?!?

My good friend at the gym assured me of this and I realize both of you are right. She knows I like her after I tried asking her out and she initiated the hello and did not avoid me. 
I find part of me believing that she is just being nice and that it's nothing more than that. It's almost like part of me is trying to keep me single forever!
My friend also says that this is like a game... a courtship. That as a guy, we can't just walk up to a girl and say, let's go out and do A, then B, etc. and she automatically does it necessarily. If a girl is able to tell how desperate you are, you usually end up losing.
It's a game that initially goes back and forth of showing interest, but then backing off a bit and playing it cool to make her come to you. And that this goes back and forth a bit, until it's apparent she's into you and then the guy seals the deal.
This is where my confidence and interpretation of a woman's signals handicaps me.
I see now that there's a damn good chance she is interested. The Halloween Party is going to be perfect for me to work the room and eventually her. That I shouldn't go straight up to her the minute she first arrives at the party. I have to kinda be like Fonzi (sp?). Just be Cool.


----------



## Houstondad

vi_bride04 said:


> (guys just remember, if a girl isn't interested and thinks you are, she will AVOID you at all costs)


Yes! Why am I so terrible at reading those kind of signals?!?

My good friend at the gym assured me of this and I realize both of you are right. She knows I like her after I tried asking her out and she initiated the hello and did not avoid me. 
I find part of me believing that she is just being nice and that it's nothing more than that. It's almost like part of me is trying to keep me single forever!
My friend also says that this is like a game... a courtship. That as a guy, we can't just walk up to a girl and say, let's go out and do A, then B, etc. and she automatically does it necessarily. If a girl is able to tell how desperate you are, you usually end up losing.
It's a game that initially goes back and forth of showing interest, but then backing off a bit and playing it cool to make her come to you. And that this goes back and forth a bit, until it's apparent she's into you and then the guy seals the deal.
This is where my confidence and interpretation of a woman's signals handicaps me.
I see now that there's a damn good chance she is interested. The Halloween Party is going to be perfect for me to work the room and eventually her. That I shouldn't go straight up to her the minute she first arrives at the party. I have to kinda be like Fonzi (sp?). Just be Cool.

So in the meantime, if I run into her at work before the weekend, besides asking how things are going, her weekend , and IF she's going to the party, is there anything else I should say? Should I wait till the party to ask her out on a date, or if I run into her before the party, ask her out then?


----------



## Pbartender

Houstondad said:


> My friend also says that this is like a game... a courtship. That as a guy, we can't just walk up to a girl and say, let's go out and do A, then B, etc. and she automatically does it necessarily. If a girl is able to tell how desperate you are, you usually end up losing.
> It's a game that initially goes back and forth of showing interest, but then backing off a bit and playing it cool to make her come to you. And that this goes back and forth a bit, until it's apparent she's into you and then the guy seals the deal.


Your friend makes it sound more like landing a fish, than asking a girl out on a date.


----------



## Jellybeans

Houston, I am all for your going on dates but do you REALLY want to start something with someone at work???


----------



## badcompany

Pbartender said:


> Your friend makes it sound more like landing a fish, than asking a girl out on a date.


I agree, sounds like high school games to me. 
At the age most of us are when starting over, get over it and just walk up to her and tell her what you think of her and ask her out. What do you have to lose?
I had a college buddy in the same scenario, always flirting with this gal who seemed receptive but he never took the initiative. Finally got a couple beers in him and got him to walk right up to her and he told her" you're the most beautiful woman I've laid eyes on would you like to go out with me?" and they've been together ever since lol.


----------



## badcompany

Jellybeans said:


> Houston, I am all for your going on dates but do you REALLY want to start something with someone at work???


Good point JB, that was on my mind as well. I think it's ok but if it gets serious one of them should transfer.


----------



## COGypsy

badcompany said:


> I agree, sounds like high school games to me.
> At the age most of us are when starting over, get over it and just walk up to her and tell her what you think of her and ask her out. What do you have to lose?


:iagree:

Look--it's a date. You're not proposing marriage. You're not hiring a live-in nanny. It's a date. One night out of your whole life. You are interested in her. She's interested in you. Don't dink around with "group dates" and that kind of middle school nonsense. You've done everything except put a note in her locker that says "I like you, do you like me? Check yes or no."

Ask her out on an actual grown-up date, just you and her and see where it goes. Worst case, it's a few hours out of the house. Best case, you get along well and go out on some more dates. 

Either way, this is really not an event worthy of the drama you're making it out to be.


----------



## Jellybeans

badcompany said:


> Good point JB, that was on my mind as well. I think it's ok but if it gets serious one of them should transfer.


And that's just thing. If it turns into a disaster, one should transfer too? 

Eh. I am just really not into workplace romping/dating. I am perfectly fine where I am and wouldn't want to uproot myself because I got some lusty feelings for someone in the office. Lol


----------



## survivorwife

Houstondad said:


> Yes! Why am I so terrible at reading those kind of signals?!?
> 
> My good friend at the gym assured me of this and I realize both of you are right. She knows I like her after I tried asking her out and she initiated the hello and did not avoid me.
> I find part of me believing that she is just being nice and that it's nothing more than that. It's almost like part of me is trying to keep me single forever!
> My friend also says that this is like a game... a courtship. That as a guy, we can't just walk up to a girl and say, let's go out and do A, then B, etc. and she automatically does it necessarily. If a girl is able to tell how desperate you are, you usually end up losing.
> It's a game that initially goes back and forth of showing interest, but then backing off a bit and playing it cool to make her come to you. And that this goes back and forth a bit, until it's apparent she's into you and then the guy seals the deal.
> This is where my confidence and interpretation of a woman's signals handicaps me.
> I see now that there's a damn good chance she is interested. The Halloween Party is going to be perfect for me to work the room and eventually her. That I shouldn't go straight up to her the minute she first arrives at the party. I have to kinda be like Fonzi (sp?). Just be Cool.
> 
> So in the meantime, if I run into her at work before the weekend, besides asking how things are going, her weekend , and IF she's going to the party, is there anything else I should say? Should I wait till the party to ask her out on a date, or if I run into her before the party, ask her out then?


Seriously? I mean seriously? Did it ever occur to you that you are over complicating a simple procedure. Sheesh!! Stop it already!

Boy likes girl. Girl likes boy. Boy asks girl out on a date. She either says yes or no. Yes, you proceed. No, you recalculate (assuming she has a legitimate excuse). See how easy that is? You don't have to read tea leaves, consult with friends, or otherwise OVERTHINK this!

ASK HER OUT! TODAY! Sheesh


----------



## lisab0105

You're killing me Smalls!


----------



## Pbartender

lisab0105 said:


> You're killing me Smalls!


The Sandlot in 5 Seconds - YouTube


----------



## lisab0105

Pbartender said:


> The Sandlot in 5 Seconds - YouTube


:smthumbup:


----------



## Houstondad

Ughh. You guys are so confident on this one. Why couldn't she say more than a "hello" if she's still interested? 
So If I decide to ask her out before seeing her at Saturday's Halloween party, and she has plans again, how should I respond to that?
I am trying to shake the feeling that if I continually ask her out that I appear as a fool and/or desperate. 
And a question for the girls: Would I appear clingy or desperate if you were in this woman's shoes and I asked you out again?


----------



## arbitrator

Houstondad said:


> Ughh. You guys are so confident on this one. *Why couldn't she say more than a "hello" if she's still interested? *
> So If I decide to ask her out before seeing her at Saturday's Halloween party, and she has plans again, how should I respond to that?
> I am trying to shake the feeling that if I continually ask her out that I appear as a fool and/or desperate.
> And a question for the girls: Would I appear clingy or desperate if you were in this woman's shoes and I asked you out again?


*OK, HDad! Let's just turn those same tables on you! Why can't you say more than a mere "hello" if you are, indeed, interested in her!

Please do not be consumed by fear! If she sees that characteristic in you, that is quite possibly a dealbreaker, in and of itself!

"Speak now or forever hold your peace!"*


----------



## BeachGuy

Wow. Just wow. And I thought my latest miss was bad.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/126441-i-think-i-just-blew-great-opportunity-make-date.html

I'm no Don Juan and I've never been real confident in the women department, but if someone already got the green light from her FOR ME???? Dude...I would've been asking her 10 minutes later. It ain't gonna get no easier than that.

Might be too late already.


----------



## survivorwife

Houstondad said:


> And a question for the girls: Would I appear clingy or desperate if you were in this woman's shoes and I asked you out again?


No. It would appear (to me) that you are a man who knows what he wants - and you want me (if I were in those woman's shoes - of course)  Assuming I like the guy, as it appears that she likes you, I would be flattered that the guy (you) was confident enough to try again.

Question. Are you really "clingy and desperate"? If so, why? If not, why act like you are? Why do you lack the confidence to go after what you want? What is your "worse case scenario"? Do you think that she will not only reject you, but laugh at you? Seriously? And, if you continue to wrestle with your demons without asking her out, she will eventually figure out that you lack confidence and will want to know why. She may even assume that you have some serious emotional issues if you can't even ask her for a simple date, or speak to her, or *even get her phone number in order to contact her during your "off time*".

Yes my friend. The longer you wait and question yourself, the easier it is to create a problem that need not exist in the first place.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Houstondad said:


> Ughh. You guys are so confident on this one. Why couldn't she say more than a "hello" if she's still interested?
> *She's at work so she may be very aware to keep it cool there.*
> 
> So If I decide to ask her out before seeing her at Saturday's Halloween party, and she has plans again, how should I respond to that?
> *If you see her how about asking if she's going to the party? If she is, say you are going to and ask her if she'd like a ride. If she say no, don't over analyze it! Wait until the party, chat some more and ask if she still wants to go climbing. If she says yes, ask her when is a good day/time for her. Lock it in, get her phone number in case you need to contact her before then (running late, etc. stuff happens). Then chill. Don't call, just go climbing.*
> 
> I am trying to shake the feeling that if I continually ask her out that I appear as a fool and/or desperate.
> And a question for the girls: Would I appear clingy or desperate if you were in this woman's shoes and I asked you out again?
> *No. She had a conflict. It shows she has a life and friends which is a good thing. You do, too! *
> 
> BREATHE.


----------



## COGypsy

Houstondad said:


> Ughh. You guys are so confident on this one. Why couldn't she say more than a "hello" if she's still interested?
> So If I decide to ask her out before seeing her at Saturday's Halloween party, and she has plans again, how should I respond to that?
> I am trying to shake the feeling that if I continually ask her out that I appear as a fool and/or desperate.
> And a question for the girls: Would I appear clingy or desperate if you were in this woman's shoes and I asked you out again?


Two reasons for not more than a "hello". One, if you're standing there with one of the kids in your class and you have more than a passing greeting, the rumor mill will start churning. I'm not sure what grade you teach, but unless it's kindergarten, kids will run with gossip far worse than even the other teachers in the school. Second--you're the guy. Sorry, but that means you pursue. If all the two of you have established is that your friends say the other one likes you, the ball is in your court.

Like Enjoli said as well, you'll probably have far better success finding a mutually agreeable time than proposing something specific. I know that if you asked me out for anytime in the next couple of weeks, I'm booked. That's not the case for everyone, but I know that's not an uncommon thing.

How are you continually asking her out? It seems like you're continually asking other people about asking her out rather than continually asking her out. Direct contact with her has been pretty minimal.


----------



## lisab0105

HD...I am ordering you to go up to her today and I don't care if she is surrounded by half the f"cking faculty, you say "I think you are beautiful, do you want to have dinner with me tonight?" 

That is it. 

If she says yes, SCORE. If she says "Sorry, busy" and she doesn't offer an alternative, she isn't interested and leave it the hell alone. At least you will know. 

Sweep her off her feet with the compliment and than WHAM her with the invite. 

If you don't, I am liable to find you and kick your @ss. :smthumbup:


----------



## arbitrator

lisab0105 said:


> HD...I am ordering you to go up to her today and I don't care if she is surrounded by half the f"cking faculty, you say "I think you are beautiful, do you want to have dinner with me tonight?"
> 
> That is it.
> 
> If she says yes, SCORE. If she says "Sorry, busy" and she doesn't offer an alternative, she isn't interested and leave it the hell alone. At least you will know.
> 
> Sweep her off her feet with the compliment and than WHAM her with the invite.
> 
> *If you don't, I am liable to find you and kick your @ss. *:smthumbup:


*Now I just love to go to good ol' fashioned a$$ kickings, except for my own!*


----------



## Houstondad

I just asked her out. Totally unexpected, but the opportunity was there and I went for it. Asked her if she was still interested in rock climbing with me and she said yes. So I said how about this Sunday and she said she already had plans. So I said when would be a good time for you? And she said how about next Sunday and I that should work for me, how about 1pm? She said yes and I said we should keep in touch and I said what would be better: email or phone? She said it doesn't matter so I said how about phone and she said she'd email me her #. In hindsight i didn't handle it perfectly, but I think I didn't do too bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

:yay::yay::yay:


----------



## arbitrator

houstondad said:


> i just asked her out. Totally unexpected, but the opportunity was there and i went for it. Asked her if she was still interested in rock climbing with me and she said yes. So i said how about this sunday and she said she already had plans. So i said when would be a good time for you? And she said how about next sunday and i that should work for me, how about 1pm? She said yes and i said we should keep in touch and i said what would be better: Email or phone? She said it doesn't matter so i said how about phone and she said she'd email me her #. In hindsight i didn't handle it perfectly, but i think i didn't do too bad.
> _posted via mobile device_


*Ka-ching!!!*


----------



## vi_bride04

Holy sh!t, look at that, she IS interested 

:smthumbup:


----------



## Paradise

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

You da man! Now, after rock climbing take her home for a full body massage to work out that soreness! Oh wait...Maybe a first date isn't a good time for that!!!!


----------



## Houstondad

The only interest level I'm still not sure of is if she looks at me as only a friend or someone who has the chance of something more with her. I guess the Halloween party might be a good gauge and so will our rock climbing. And I'm going to try to be careful not falling into the friend-zone trap. But if she ends up only a friend, that's cool too.
She emailed me her number like within a few minutes after I spoke with her. I guess either she's a prompt kinda girl or....?
Oh. And how long should I wait to call or text her? Wait a day or two?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Houstondad said:


> The only interest level I'm still not sure of is if she looks at me as only a friend or someone who has the chance of something more with her. I guess the Halloween party might be a good gauge and so will our rock climbing.
> She emailed me her number like within a minute after I spoke with her. I guess either she's a prompt kinda girl or....?
> Oh. And how long should I wait to call or text her? Wait a day or two?


DUDE! RELAX! She likes you! The prompt emailing of the phone number is a good indicator of that, in addition to her saying YES!  And if you didnt contact her this evening, then do so tomorrow! It makes us kinda giddy when guys are enthusiastic about us!


----------



## arbitrator

*She likes what she initially has seen in you, HDad! Just call her at your leisure, but don't keep her waiting. She's expecting to hear from you and soon!

And keep the conversation with her on the positive side. Do not discuss negative things about you, her, or whoever! Just focus on the two of you and happy things! And show her your sense of humor ~ she'll absolutely love that!*


----------



## jay1365

Dude, I used to have your problem. It always put me in the friend zone. Then I learned if I found a woman attractive, I paid almost zero attention to her, except for some occasional eye contact. They practically started lining up for me after that.


----------



## COguy

3Xnocharm said:


> DUDE! RELAX! She likes you! The prompt emailing of the phone number is a good indicator of that, in addition to her saying YES!  And if you didnt contact her this evening, then do so tomorrow! It makes us kinda giddy when guys are enthusiastic about us!


Prime example of why you don't take advice from women about women.

Do not contact her right away... Go watch the movie swingers. You are Jon Favreau.


----------



## lisab0105

COguy said:


> Prime example of why you don't take advice from women about women.
> 
> Do not contact her right away... Go watch the movie swingers. You are Jon Favreau.


Wrong! The do not call rule is antiquated and LAME.


----------



## MSC71

If she was laying naked in front of you, you would convince yourself that she wasn't waiting for you. Ha! Just messing....


----------



## Hardtohandle

Houstondad said:


> The only interest level I'm still not sure of is if she looks at me as only a friend or someone who has the chance of something more with her. I guess the Halloween party might be a good gauge and so will our rock climbing. And I'm going to try to be careful not falling into the friend-zone trap. But if she ends up only a friend, that's cool too.
> She emailed me her number like within a few minutes after I spoke with her. I guess either she's a prompt kinda girl or....?
> Oh. And how long should I wait to call or text her? Wait a day or two?


Well at some point she will have to have your number right ?

Or is she just going to assume that the 12 pm call on sunday is you to make sure the date is on.. 

You can call her the next day just to give her your contact number.. Or text her your contact info. 

HD just be yourself.. Don't try to be a player if you are not.. I cannot deal with the player mentality for several reasons, so I don't try to.. 

If this woman cannot accept HD for who he is or finds you lacking for being honest, well then she wasn't worth the effort in the first place then.. 

I mean don't get me wrong. If she fvcks you don't tell her thank you afterwards.. 

But if you call this girl 2 days later to exchange contact info and she finds you "Needy" because of it, then she is nuts.. 

This is me warts ( I don't actually have any ) and all, take me or don't.. 4 billion other woman/men in the sea..

As a side note, its pretty funny and cute ( I hope saying that doesn't take away my man card ) seeing someone like this..


----------



## 3Xnocharm

lisab0105 said:


> Wrong! The do not call rule is antiquated and LAME.


THANK you Lisa! Personally, I LOVE it when a guy calls or texts almost right away, because it means he is really interested in me! I dont want to feel like an afterthought 3-4 days later!


----------



## Pbartender

HD, here's the problem I ran into with asking girls out and getting advice from other people about how to ask girls out...

It's like settling on a new wardrobe. Everybody's telling you to wear the same style of clothes that they wear, because they look great in what they wear. Or, they tell you to not wear something, because they tried wearing it once, and it looked terrible. But it doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks... You need to find your own style of clothes. And you'll know when you've found the right style when you think you look great, you feel comfortable with the way you look, and you stop worrying about what other people think about the way you look.

I've discovered it's something similar when it comes to dating... You have to find your own style, you own rules, for asking a girl out and going on dates. When you find a method that's just right for you, you'll know, because you suddenly won't be dwelling and worrying over all the little details of you should and should not do. It'll all happen without even having to think about it.

Chillax.


----------



## badcompany

lisab0105 said:


> Wrong! The do not call rule is antiquated and LAME.


Yes but many still bide by it


----------



## lisab0105

badcompany said:


> Yes but many still bide by it


I know and it's stupid and makes me want to shake their brains good. 

HD, you have her number...text her and flirt like a m'ther f'cker! 

Pardon my language...I'm in Jersey, we are not a classy bunch.


----------



## COguy

We've had this same exact topic on the forum a few times, and I've had it in real life a few times. Every time it makes me laugh.

Women predominately tell men NOT to follow the 2 day rule. Yet they overwhelmingly are attracted to men who do. It's a don't hate the player hate the game situation. If calling women right away and telling them how awesome it was to hang out and talk to them worked, guys wouldn't be treating women like jerks to keep them interested. And don't misunderstand me that I encourage that kind of behavior, but there IS a reason why PUAs do it, because it works, and being a "nice guy" who calls right away and acts really interested, does not.

Calling a girl immediately is much like going to a bar and talking to one girl the entire night. Yes it seems sweet and romantic on paper and girls eat it up when they see it. But if you're the girl, and the guy is showing interest in you and only you, and then he calls you right away, you're immediately thinking, "This guy is really into me!"

That's a bad position to be in when you barely know someone. For starters, like it or not, attraction IS a game. Communicating low value and that you are really into someone right away before you even have gone on a few dates is not something that lights women's underwear on fire.

Second, HD, you're more likely to do what you have already started to do, which is to put a woman on a pedestal. This kind of thinking leads to doormattery and bad relationship decision making. You hardly know this girl, like you really don't know her at all other then a few superficial conversations you've had at work. So you shouldn't be so giddy about seeing her that you HAVE to call her so quickly and get so worked up about going out. There should be as much chance of this working out as a random girl you met at the grocery store, so don't treat this girl like she's the Queen of Sheba before you have gone out a few times.

Play it cool. Again, if you're so wrapped up in this that it's all you can think about, it not only conveys to her that you have no life, it means you really don't have an interesting life. Try to pick up some hobbies and fill your schedule with interesting things so that you become a more interesting and attractive person.


----------



## MSC71

Just ask her out. No games. No silly rules about not calling or acting not interested. All that is crap. If she likes you and you like her it will work out.


----------



## COGypsy

I fall somewhere in the middle. Overall, I think you should call/text if you have something to say. If the best you've got is "what's up?" then 2-3 days is fine. If you have something concrete to tell her or came across something she's actually expressed interest in or commented about, then I don't see a point it waiting for some artificial deadline to pass before you say it.


----------



## Houstondad

Sent her my first text today. It was mostly a work related compliment. She replied back after a few minutes saying thanks with a little small talk attached but no open ended questions or anything like that. Then a bud of mine said stop texting! I don't want to end the text on a work related note. My intention was to end it with something about the party Saturday. Why are many of us divided on this issue?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSC71

*Re: Re: Struggling to ask out this girl and my fear of rejection*



Houstondad said:


> Sent her my first text today. It was mostly a work related compliment. She replied back after a few minutes saying thanks with a little small talk attached but no open ended questions or anything like that. Then a bud of mine said stop texting! I don't want to end the text on a work related note. My intention was to end it with something about the party Saturday. Why are many of us divided on this issue?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just call her. Seriously.


----------



## Pbartender

Houstondad said:


> Why are many of us divided on this issue?


Because generally we think too hard about it, and worry too much about making a mistake.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

COguy, can I ask how old you are (age range is fine) and whether or not you have kids? Honestly asking this, not picking a fight or trying to demean what your attempting to get across in this thread. The reason I ask is the older I get (early 30's), and the fact I'm a parent (D7, primary custody), the more and more I can't understand the PUA "game" of acting like a jerk to attract woman. Confidence I get, sure. But I don't have time to play these freakin' dating games. If a girl likes me, great, let's see where that goes. If she's likely to run off the second some PUA spouts some rehearsed crap at her, then she's probably not the one for me anyway. 

I apologize. That did sound like I'm trying to attack you. If that's the style that works for you then good on you.guess I just don't understand it at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

2galsmom said:


> Act like a jerk and you will get women with low self-esteem who want to be treated poorly, it is not a recipe for relationship success.
> 
> Jerks and nice guys have women cheat on them BTW.


This woman gets it. Agreed. I'm looking for the woman who is confident in herself and independent. Which is probably why I don't try to pick up women at a bar. Am I missing out on random sex? Probably. Is that the type of woman I want to spend my life with? Nope. Don't get me wrong.. I love a good dive bar every now and then, but that's probably not where I'll find my Mrs. GoodGuy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Houstondad

Hey 2Gal. I took my kids out trick or treating. 
The Halloween Party is a bit belated. It's tonight.
I'm going in with confidence and no expectations(this part is gonna be tough). I've never been a bad boy and at my age, I doubt I'll ever start. I'm just looking for balance.


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## COguy

TheGoodGuy, I'm 31 with two kids. I don't think you actually read what I wrote. I am not a "player" or a PUA. I don't act like a jerk to women. On the contrary I am always honest and upfront. I don't recommend that anyone else acts like a jerk either. If you gathered that from what I wrote you should reread it.

Waiting 2 days to call is not acting like a jerk. It is both a guideline and in indicator of someone's emotional health. If you meet a girl somewhere, and you are so filled with awe and wonder before you have even been out a few times, that you feel the need to call her RIGHT AWAY and let her know how interesting and great she was, you do not have a very interesting life. Likewise, though it may be initially flattering, BOTH sexes are much more attracted to someone that they feel they have to "get". Is that stupid? Yes. But it's biology, and you can't fight it. As I mentioned before, this law of biology is the reason that PUAs act like jerks, because it works. That doesn't mean that you have to act like a jerk, but you DON'T want to communicate to a prospective woman that you don't have an interesting life outside of her, or that you NEED her company, or that you that you are of a lower sexual value than her.

If you don't want to play these "games" then suit yourself. Fart on the first date, show up in mustard stained sweat pants, and talk about your ex as much as possible. Those "rules" are all games too.

I'm personally the type of guy that without the advice of people on this board, would probably spend all night at a scene talking to one woman, call her the next day and tell her "I didn't want to wait the 2 days" and show up to the first date with a bouquet of flowers. It sounds sweet but it's not healthy and it certainly doesn't set up for an ideal relationship.

When I landed my current girlfriend I was dating multiple people at the same time and going out doing my stuff regularly. When I met someone new I didn't have time to call within 2 days, I was too busy. When I went into a date I went into it thinking, "Is there anything wrong with this one?" Because I had a few others on the back burner and I wasn't under any pressure to force myself into exclusivity with someone that wasn't ideal. It's a much healthier place to be, and certainly made me more attractive to the women I was dating.


----------



## Lifescript

Houston Dad, 

Based on what you've posted I'd say she is interested. In my experience, women don't go out with guys they are not interested in. I'm assuming she is a good looking gal so there should be others wanting to date her as well. 

Had she not liked you, she would have said something to her friend and you would have never known that them two talked about you going out with her. Just be you man. I'm in a similar situation and I know how tough it is to approach and ask someone on a date. 

Not sure how many days you should wait. In the end, if she's attracted to you (and I think she is) it really doesn't matter. What you shouldn't do, however, is bombard her with texts/calls and chase her. Showing too much interest will turn her off. Keep her guessing. Good luck.


----------



## Lifescript

COguy said:


> TheGoodGuy, I'm 31 with two kids. I don't think you actually read what I wrote. I am not a "player" or a PUA. I don't act like a jerk to women. On the contrary I am always honest and upfront about. I don't recommend that anyone else acts like a jerk either. If you gathered that from what I wrote you should reread it.
> 
> Waiting 2 days to call is not acting like a jerk. It is both a guideline and in indicator of someone's emotional health. If you meet a girl somewhere, and you are so filled with awe and wonder before you have even been out a few times, that you feel the need to call her RIGHT AWAY and let her know how interesting and great she was, you do not have a very interesting life. Likewise, though it may be initially flattering, BOTH sexes are much more attracted to someone that they feel they have to "get". Is that stupid? Yes. But it's biology, and you can't fight it. As I mentioned before, this law of biology is the reason that PUAs act like jerks, because it works. That doesn't mean that you have to act like a jerk, but you DON'T want to communicate to a prospective woman that you don't have an interesting life outside of her, or that you NEED her company, or that you that you are of a lower sexual value than her.
> 
> If you don't want to play these "games" then suit yourself. Fart on the first date, show up in mustard stained sweat pants, and talk about your ex as much as possible. Those "rules" are all games too.
> 
> I'm personally the type of guy that without the advice of people on this board, would probably spend all night at a scene talking to one woman, call her the next day and tell her "I didn't want to wait the 2 days" and show up to the first date with a bouquet of flowers. It sounds sweet but it's not healthy and it certainly doesn't set up for an ideal relationship.
> 
> When I landed my current girlfriend I was dating multiple people at the same time and going out doing my stuff regularly. When I met someone new I didn't have time to call within 2 days, I was too busy. When I went into a date I went into it thinking, "Is there anything wrong with this one?" Because I had a few others on the back burner and I wasn't under any pressure to force myself into exclusivity with someone that wasn't ideal. It's a much healthier place to be, and certainly made me more attractive to the women I was dating.


:iagree:

I have a few female friends. I've asked two of them about this particular subject. They have both said that one a guy texts right away is a turn-off.


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## pidge70




----------



## Houstondad

How dd it go tonight? Not as good as i hoped.
So I'm getting ready and the host texts me that she's there. I finished getting ready. I look good. The dread pirate Roberts from Princess bride. And I looked DAMN GOOD!  Anyways, I arrive and as I head to the back of the Back patio to Drop off the ice I see her. She's in a small group and she notices me and says "Hi" to me, so I say hi back. I drop off the ice for the keg and go back inside.
I decide to mingle with my other co-workers for the next 45 minutes. After about 45 minutes I find out she has just left. The older co-worker she rode with said there was some "emergency issue" with her hubby so she had to go. She was her ride and she left with her before I knew what happened. So tempted to text her but I haven't. Sucks! I still had a good time, too bad I couldn't spend some time talking to her. I wonder if she thinks I don't care or didn't want to talk to her.For what it's worth, her turning towards me to say Hi was a good sign. Me not talking to her might send the message I'm not interested? Stupid thinking when I've asked her out just 3 days ago.
But I did want to talk to her tonight. My confidence was at an all time high. I was ready. Wish she hadn't left so soon! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

Dude. You have had 10 chances. Just do it. She probably thinks u.are not interested at this point. You show up, say hi and mingle with other people for 45 minutes? If you wanted to talk to her, you should of done it. You have had waaaay to many chances only to have an excuse not to.


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## vi_bride04

I would think a guy had no interest if not coming to talk to me 10-15 min after walking right by me and saying hi. I would assume he was avoiding me, especially after 45 min. 
You should have at least made an attempt for small chit chat with her. Especially since you have asked her out already.


----------



## PBear

I agree with the others. What were you thinking to not come back to her for 45 minutes? She's probably posting on some other forum about this guy she likes giving her these really confusing mixed messages.

C


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## Houstondad

Hey, I had no idea she was gonna leave so early. I screwed up.


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## Houstondad

I decided to send her a text a few minutes ago asking if everything is ok after they left suddenly. I don't want her to think I'm not interested. And I feel terrible for possibly sending the message that I wasn't interested in talking to her.I just wanted to give it some time before I spoke with her and the time flew by before I realized it. And I didn't expect them to leave so soon. Never assume anything I guess.


----------



## Houstondad

She texted back a while later. She said her friend's hubby had a business emergency. I hope her texting me back is a "positive".
I replied that I was glad the two of them were ok. And that I'm sorry for us not having the chance to hang out. She hasn't replied back yet.
I might get hell for that response. Especially for the "sorry". But that's how I honestly feel. 
So I'm done trying to be someone I'm not. Treating this like a game. 
I've been trying too hard at this and haven't been myself. And I'm about to screw it up if I continue.
I hope she gives me a partial pass this time because they had to leave suddenly. But I do take responsibility for not approaching her sooner.
Hope she replies back and hasn't given up on me already.


----------



## Houstondad

She texted back a while later. She said her friend's hubby had a business emergency. I hope her texting me back is a "positive".
I replied that I was glad the two of them were ok. And that I'm sorry for us not having the chance to hang out. She hasn't replied back yet.
I might get hell for that response. Especially for the "sorry". But that's how I honestly feel. 
So I'm done trying to be someone I'm not. Treating this like a game. 
I've been trying too hard at this and haven't been myself. And I'm about to screw it up if I continue.
I hope she gives me a partial pass this time because they had to leave suddenly. But I do take responsibility for not approaching her sooner.
Hope she replies back and hasn't given up on me already.


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## arbitrator

*You did the right thing, HDad! Emergency's do happen! Plus it'll give the two of you some added conversation fodder for later!

Trust me! From all that I'm reading, the lady likes you!*


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## MSC71

He's in the friend zone if one more opportunity passes. If she is front of you at school and the principle motions you, tell him to wait! Time to grow a pair and ask her out! Damn, I want to ask her out myself. Lol.


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## Houstondad

Well, I'm about to hit the sack and I didn't hear back from my last text with me saying I'm sorry for us not hanging out. I came close to texting her again tonight about me not chatting with her at the party and how terrible I feel about it. I know I've already sent her a text saying I'm sorry, but it sucks not hearing back whether she's pissed at me or understands due to the circumstances of her leaving early & suddenly. Today has been tough!
But I decided not to send her another text. Instead, I'll to go see her tomorrow during her off-time to talk to her. Face to face. I plan to bring up my lack of interaction at the party with her, but I also want to bring up other things that are more positive including our date this coming Sunday. As far as I know, it's still on.
And if anyone tries to stop me from talking to her tomorrow; I'll be like Ted Striker from Airplane as he's making his way through the airport.


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## jay1365

Houstondad said:


> It's almost like part of me is trying to keep me single forever!


And your problem is....?


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## COguy

Dude you're a trainwreck. It's literally like watching Swingers unfold.


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## Pbartender

I would suggest that you might not be ready to start dating yet, Houston.

Perhaps you first work on just meeting new people and making new friends of the opposite sex. Set any romantic intentions aside for the moment, and get yourself comfortable with just saying "Hi" and introducing yourself to women, and making ordinary conversation with them.

Once you can get that down, the rest will come easy...





...So to speak.


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## Houstondad

Today, I met up with her at lunch. And I had to make the effort to approach her (which I need to do anyways). She said hi to me as I walked up to her and a small group of teachers monitoring the lunch room. I said hi back. There was some small talk among them as I listened and she suddenly says we should all break up before we get in trouble for chit-chatting and not doing our job monitoring.
I go down to one side of the lunch room near some of her students. And she soon walks over to my vicinity and is talking with some of her students. I walk over and join in on the discussion for a bit. I walk away and stand and she walks over about 15 feet from me. So I give it a few moments and walk over next to her and tell her something crazy that happened early today...we talk some more, mainly our weekend, her hobbies, and I eventually ask her what she normally does for lunch. I told her if she would ever like to have some company to let me know and for a moment it looked like she had this slightly surprise look on her face. She shared some places she likes to eat around the building. She didn't say yes, but she didn't seem uncomfortable sharing what she does and where she eats. So it was hard to gauge if she was ok with inviting me. And I know she does like alone time so I didn't push the issue. Something then suddenly came up with her student and she left with the student and was quite agitated with the student's issue. Then it was time to end lunch.
It was a good talk with her and I wanted her to know I was still interested in her without literally saying it. That was my intention for going to lunch and talking to her.
I haven't decided how I'll pay her a visit for lunch, but I'll figure it out on my own.
And This will be my last post regarding this for a while. I'm angry with how I've overanalyzed and over thought something so simple as getting to know another person. And getting differing advice from people here and at my gym/work has made me become indecisive. I don't blame anyone for this, but I allowed myself to not make decisions. I want to take responsibility for MY OWN CHOICES and I do not want to be afraid for doing what I think is right. Not intending to sound uncaring, I just don't give a **** what anyone thinks about what I decide to do.
I'm not the socially awkward person I seem on here, but I was creating this issue and it was ALL in my head. Luckily, I never vomited all my conflicted feelings to her. I just vomited on all of you. And I'm sorry.
And for what it's worth, thanks for everything on here guys, even the tough love. I kinda needed that to eventually have it sink in.

I'm taking a break from here because I am serious about getting my confidence back. And the only person that can help me, is me. So that's what I'm going to do starting right now.


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## arbitrator

*Just phone her after school when she is at home relaxing, make chit-chat, and ask her if she has any plans for this weekend! I would feel that certainly sometime between Saturday morning and Sunday evening, there ought to be a definite window of opportunity in there somewhere!*


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## Hardtohandle

Go to her house and look in her window until she notices you.. Make sure you're just wearing underwear and red socks.. Your color underwear doesn't matter..

Tap on her window. When she screams.. Wave your arm in a "Hi" fashion, but keep smiling regardless of what happens next.

I figured since HD is away we might as well have some fun with this.. At least he gets a good laugh when he comes back to the thread..


----------



## Jellybeans

I'll play.

Leave her flowers on her doorstep every day with increasingly crazy notes saying "hi"... "Hi babe."

"How YOU doing?" "

then

"Wanna hang out?"

"I see you."

LOL


----------



## Jellybeans

I'll play.

Leave her flowers on her doorstep every day with increasingly crazy notes saying _"Hi"... "Hi babe."_

_"How YOU doing?"_

then

_"Wanna hang out?"
_

then

_"I see you."_

LOL


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## COguy

Don't give him any ideas...we're a few days away from "This just isn't working, I'm sorry, I just think we need some space. It's not you, it's me."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMrKsKQWrl8


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## Houstondad

So this is what happens while I'm gone? You guys are terrible! haha.
A lot has happened since my last post.
Early Nov- She tells me she's in a relationship before we go out rockclimbing. Tells me she understands if I don't want to take her.
I tell her despite the fact I like her and find her beautiful(Can't believe I said this), let's just go have fun.
We hit it off and have fun. But despite my feelings, I don't put a move on her. I slowly realize I'm setting myself up for heartbreak so I tread carefully.

I soon learn that her relationship is a LDR where she left the guy to start a new life in my city. Things have not been good between them. But she's been unable to totally let go.
We hang out from time to time at work (lunch)and get to know each other better. It becomes apparent she thinks I'm a great guy, tells me how our co-workers think I'm awesome, blah-blah. But nothing escalates at this time. Things are plutonic. 

Thanksgiving she returns to her hometown and comes back single. She had enough of the BF and breaks up with him. I decide to giver her plenty of space.
Now don't get me wrong, her and I never had this barrage of emails or texts back and forth. It was maybe one a day or every other day. Most of it was work related. She's very short in her texts too. Things never escalated during that time.

Dec-
It's been several weeks since her breakup. I still manage space between us, but I'm also biding my time to see if she might be interested down the road. However, I begin to notice she is playing a cat and mouse game with me back and forth. Very subtle at first. Then it's stopping by my office or an email and will continue until I respond. And vice versa. I think it's called the chasing/pursuing game?
The minute I display that I'm not interested, she shows interest. Then when I show interest, she seems a bit uninterested.

Things become less subtle when she shows up to my bday celebration(univited but then asked later that nite if she could drop by). 
I still do not try to kiss her at this point. I'm probably being too respectful with letting her work through her post-breakup emotions, but that's what I do.

Last week, she tells me point blank she thinks I'm great, she really likes me and that I don't have to be aloof with her.
Our texting begins to escalate a little bit more. 

This past Monday her and I go out and this time, it's different than when we went out before.
We compliment each other on our clothing, she laughs at my stupid jokes, gives me these 3 second stares right into my eyes, playing with her hair. All the flirting signs, right?
We get back to her place and her and I kiss. She's pretty aggressive with me, tongue and all. I slow her kissing down and end the kiss gently pulling away, then said goodnight.
And I failed to mention she's a bit of an introvert. Once you get to know her, she opens up. But she is a bit quirky in this department. I wonder how much it plays in her infrequent texts or the chase game?

Now my current situation:
Her dad flew her up for Christmas and she returns Friday. Should I put much stock into the fact that her and I haven't texted very much since we kissed and she left x-mas eve? I sent her one before her flight and then yesterday wishing Merry Christmas. She responded back both times. That's it.

Wondering if the chasing game is still in play? Her wanting me to continue pursuing despite us kissing the other night? My sis thinks I should pursue a bit while she's away to keep me on her mind vs. the possibility of her ex-BF. I'm leaning towards not texting her again until she gets back.


----------



## arbitrator

*Sounds like things are going rather well, HDad, and I'd still continue to follow up with her as her interest in you seems to be steadily ascending.

Please keep us all posted on any new developments!*


----------



## Conrad

H-Dad,

She's already shown you she doesn't respond well to codependence.

Stay cool. Don't chase. How quickly to you answer her texts?


----------



## Houstondad

I've noticed that too Conrad. I feel like its a game of show interest and she becomes distant and then when I become distant, she chases/ shows interest in me. Kind of like mixed messages. We've got to know each other over the last 2 months and it culminated into her and I passionately kissing earlier this week. Our texts started maybe 1 a week. And I would take several if not 6+ hrs to respond. It picked up a bit last week, then went quiet the days leading up to the kiss. Mixed again, but resulting in a kiss. 
Ok, so this week I texted her on Thursday saying I would like to see her again and if she can get together this weekend. She said she made plans already to see friends, but Sunday was free. So I replied later that that sounds good and I'll pick her up at noon. No contact Friday or Saturday. Then last night around 10:30 she texts me if I was serious about going out and that she has had a terrible day, so she'll have to cancel. Then she says thank you. She didn't include and alternate day which is not good. I haven't replied to her message and I have to admit I'm trying not to feel mad about it since she could truly be having a tough time. And my gut tells me it's her feelings with her ex. Even though she dumped the guy who lives in another state, I think she may be struggling a lot with it. I may be wrong. 
So how should I handle this now? Reply back saying that's too bad, when you're feeling better and want to go out, let me know? Or is that too Beta? Reinforcing her poor excuse/flaking on the date? Just wait for her to follow up but in the meantime doing my own plans? And if I don't hear from
Her in a few days, send a text checking up on her (I am having a party new years eve and have not invited her yet) and invite her? Or just completely move on unless she responds? The reason I am struggling with this is because after my divorce I realized I was a poor communicator. So I've worked and improved on that. So why not respond to her cancellation? Or do I approach it from the game standpoint that no reply will keep her wondering and possibly work in my favor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

HD, i think it's time that you just left this girl alone. She's not making it worth your time, And it's making you look desperate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

I would respond saying something like you are sorry she had a tough time and that it is fine. "Another time." but don't set a date. Let her come to you.

Listen to your gut. May be that she isn't over her ex.

I realize i need to work on my communication too.


----------



## vi_bride04

I would step back quite a ways for now, especially if she is having a difficult breakup. If she is still in contact with her ex, that would totally explain the hot/cold type behavior. Not until she goes completely NC with her ex will she begin to heal and be ready to date. So be careful, especially if you are finding yourself liking this woman. She isn't ready for the type of relationship you probably are...

I like JBs response, or no response at all. I mean she didn't take you serious about meeting on Sunday and when she found out you were she cancelled. Ok, maybe she did have a bad day but not taking you seriously is not a good sign from a womans point of view. 

Look out for you. Listen to your gut. If something isn't feeling quite right with this one, move on.


----------



## BashfulB

Back off and leave her alone. 

I dont waste my time with game players and you should not either. When a woman is really interested in you, and really into you, she will let you know on no uncertain terms. 

This chick is not into you. She is too wrapped up in her ex. Leave her alone and maybe down the road a few months she'll contact you again.


----------



## Houstondad

I'm trying my best not to appear desperate which is why I bring all my insecurities/ uncertainties here and try to sort them out. I can assure you guys I don't discuss with her what I discuss with all of you.
I've been trying to meet other women through eHarmony. And it's been a long/drawn out process. One date thus far that ended at 1. 

I'm terribly picky with women and don't believe in dating women just to practice or get things out of my system. If I'm going to date/ pickup someone, it's with the intention that I'm good with it going to a LTR. I call that INTEGRITY. I'm sure some would disagree, and I'm willing to listen to the other side of dating.

And my gaming skills are non-exsistent. I never gamed when I was younger because I rarely dated. I had other interests and maybe I was blind to when a woman hit on me. Then I met my wife(EX) through work which became developed into a close relationship during the months. So this whole chase game is new and foreign to me. And I'm learning the hard way.

So yeah, I've decided not to contact her and probably won't invite her to my party. My gut tells me a lot of the hot & cold with her was her mixed feelings about her EX and I. I'm certain she developed an interest with me and likes me (she told me herself). But I know that she's struggling with letting her EX go. So it's one minute she's thinking/wanting her EX, the next she's probably feels/thinks she's over him and seeks/chases me.
But you guys are right, screw all that. I don't have time for that. And today, I went out and picked up a few things for myself and tonight I'm going to hang out with my friends for the football game. 
I'm going to try to focus more on myself and less on her as well as other women (sorry ladies  ). I've realized I still have some work to do on my confidence. And the thing is, I've said this before back when I thought her interests in me vanished only to learn she was interested. And I do have a concern that she may come back too soon and I end up accepting her advances again. I hope I can tell her that I think she's not over her EX and that I am going to give her her space so she can handle it the right way.
What do I say to her without sounding like a prick?


----------



## BashfulB

Its okay to be picky when you have good picking skills, but you picked your ex-wife and look what she turned around and did to you!

You need to relax. You can go out with lots of women with no expectation for romance. People who date only for the expectation of LTR are really pigeonholing themselves I think. You are really limiting your chances of just having lots of fun AND building your confidence around women when you get TOO picky.


----------



## BashfulB

Houstondad said:


> And I do have a concern that she may come back too soon and I end up accepting her advances again. I hope I can tell her that I think she's not over her EX and that I am going to give her her space so she can handle it the right way.
> What do I say to her without sounding like a prick?


Tell her what you just told us. Gently and without guile. But don't contact her until she contacts you.


----------



## Jellybeans

Houstondad said:


> And my gaming skills are non-exsistent. I never gamed when I was younger because I rarely dated.
> 
> So this whole chase game is new and foreign to me. And I'm learning the hard way.
> 
> But you guys are right, screw all that. I don't have time for that.
> What do I say to her without sounding like a prick?


I'm a lot like what you described in that post. I do not have time for chasing or games or hot and cold. It turns me off. I prefer straight shooting with people. Oh you want to run hot and then freezing? No, thanks. Do not like. 

You say your gut, several times now, has felt she is still pining over ex. Your gut is probably right. At minimum, it's telling you she is not emotionally available to you. Also her whole text about "Are you really sure you want to hang out" is something I say to someone when I really do not want to hang out but am trying to maybe talk someone out of hanging. I do this with my sister all the time. LOL. And when someone does it to me, I know that they really do not want to hang.

I would not invite her to your party. I would not get your hopes up about her. I would not do anything. 

Like I said, if you wanna respond w/o sounding like a prick or desperate, keep it very short and succinct. "No worries. Maybe another time." That's it.

DO NOT reach out to her again. DO NOT initiate contact.

She may like you...but not enough to pursue anything right now. It is clear through her actions to you. 

A woman who is sweet on a man will not bail last minute, will not be pining over her ex, and will not be doing the hot and cold with you.

I had to cut one guy off who was doing something similar to your chick. When he popped his head up again... saying he missed me and really wanted to see me I told him I did not think that was a good idea because I am not into it anymore. Then he started messaging me/contacting me all the time and all it did was turn me off. What? You couldn't be into it or at least consistent with me? No, thanks. Not a fan. 

I much prefer someone who tells me point blank what the deal is: "You know, I like you but I am not looking for anything serious right now" or "Let's just fvck" or "I want to marry you" or "I am dating other people." Honesty goes a long way. I think some people are so concerned with coming across as nice or wanting to keep you in their back pocket w/o offending you that they pull these stupid cowardly acts (which is exactly what it is) instead of just being upfront with you. 

Well guess what? I respect a man 1000x over and more that tells me "I am not interested in anything but NSA" or "I just want to see you irregularly/I am not into a relationship right now but let's just bone" or anything really that says what his deal is versus a guy who keeps playing hot and cold. 

Be of your word. Be consistent. 

This chick...isn't any of that. Therefore you should move on or mirror exactly what she is doing.

You deserve better for a dating experience.

My 2 cents.


----------



## Jellybeans

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just tell people how we feel?

Seriously. Makes life so much easier.

"I like you. But am not into your going in-communicato with me. I think you may still be hung up on your ex. If you want to pick up the pace at some point, when you aren't into your ex still, hit me up, otherwise, this back and forth is silly. Can't help I am attracted to you but still."


----------



## Houstondad

Sigh. It's a pain when your rational thinking gets clogged by your emotions. It's a shame she's hung up on the EX, or whatever it is that's doubting her feelings for me. Right when she finally lets her guard down and kisses me, she resorts back to her feelings for her EX or just being on defense. I'm sure there's a psychological explanation.
Just need to keep reminding myself there are plenty of great girls out there.
And in-communicato? Is that really a word Jelly? 
I was thinking incognito, but maybe yours is a real word. Need to google it. haha


----------



## Jellybeans

Houstondad said:


> Sigh. It's a pain when your rational thinking gets clogged by your emotions.


Well that's just it. Once that happens, all common sense and logic goes out the door. Which really means you have got to save yourself from coming across as a desperate hanger-on or coming across as a doormat.

We can't help who we like. That is the damn truth. But you can help presenting yourself in a dignified way. So logically, you already know she isn't as into it as you are. No matter how much you want that not to be the case, it is simply not the truth. So go with that feeling. She wants to play cat and mouse or is hung up on her ex? Much as you like her, she isn't the one for you. You like the idea of her, not what she actually is/is like.

Sucks. Emotions/feelings SUCK. Which is why I prefer not to HAVE them. UGH. 



Houstondad said:


> And in-communicato? Is that really a word Jelly?
> I was thinking incognito, but maybe yours is a real word. Need to google it. haha



It's actually incommunicado and yes, it's a real word. I just wanted to spell it funny and make it sound Italiano. 

_in·com·mu·ni·ca·do adverb or adjective \-ˌmyü-nə-ˈkä-(ˌ)dō\
: not able to communicate with other people : in a situation or state that does not allow communication with other people_

From: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

You're welcome. 

This reminds me of my Grandpa situation. I am so attracted to him, it's silly, this older man who clearly either wants something casual, is involved with someone else or just not that into me. Yet, I still want to hear from him and see him again. My crush is seriously ridiculous. It's rare that I have a crush so that makes it worse. I haven't experienced that kind of chemistry with someone in a long, long time. Hard to explain. I wished him a Merry Christmas and he wished me one back via text with Xmas emojis and smiley faces. I really wanted to text him "Please sleep with me." But I didn't. We kissed for two loooong hours the last time I saw him. I think he thinks I am too young for him. Or it is me making excuses. I wish he felt the same way about me and would reach out saying he cannot wait to see me again and rip my clothes off. But alas, it has not happened. Four awesome dates (I thought) and then a tapering off of communication. My lips still burn. Haha. That is lame. But it's how I feel. But I know better than to chase. Because I am the anti-cling chick. So I sit thinking of him wishing. But knowing what I need to do. Stupid.


----------



## Houstondad

That's my denial: she's not into me as I am into her. 
And it's too bad, because I really am a great guy (I hide most of my insecurity and vomit it all on you guys).
Your story of Grandpa is like mine. I am 42 and she's 28. Right on the bubble. I can't recall the last time I had a crush. Didn't even have one with the person I married! But with her, I did. And when the minute I started to give up, to realize our interests in each other were not the same, she blindsides me that she really likes me. Not fair. I truly think she can't make up her mind. One minute she's into me, the next she's falling back on thinking of her EX.
And I've finally realized....she's not worth it to me. Not now.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> Well that's just it. Once that happens, all common sense and logic goes out the door. Which really means you have got to save yourself from coming across as a desperate hanger-on or coming across as a doormat.
> *
> We can't help who we like. That is the damn truth. But you can help presenting yourself in a dignified way. So logically, you already know she isn't as into it as you are. No matter how much you want that not to be the case, it is simply not the truth. So go with that feeling. She wants to play cat and mouse or is hung up on her ex? Much as you like her, she isn't the one for you. You like the idea of her, not what she actually is/is like.*
> 
> Sucks. Emotions/feelings SUCK. Which is why I prefer not to HAVE them. UGH.
> 
> *This reminds me of my Grandpa situation. I am so attracted to him, it's silly, this older man who clearly either wants something casual, is involved with someone else or just not that into me. Yet, I still want to hear from him and see him again. My crush is seriously ridiculous. It's rare that I have a crush so that makes it worse. I haven't experienced that kind of chemistry with someone in a long, long time. Hard to explain. I wished him a Merry Christmas and he wished me one back via text with Xmas emojis and smiley faces. I really wanted to text him "Please sleep with me." But I didn't. We kissed for two loooong hours the last time I saw him. I think he thinks I am too young for him. Or it is me making excuses. I wish he felt the same way about me and would reach out saying he cannot wait to see me again and rip my clothes off. But alas, it has not happened. Four awesome dates (I thought) and then a tapering off of communication. My lips still burn. Haha. That is lame. But it's how I feel. But I know better than to chase. Because I am the anti-cling chick. So I sit thinking of him wishing. But knowing what I need to do. Stupid*.


Its so hard to deal with when these feelings arent reciprocated.  If anyone relates to this, its me, you know that. Mr NoChem had brought yet a third woman into our mess to start dating. Evidently this one gets his fvcking chemistry. I did the same thing I did before and outed the whole situation to her, just like I did with the other one. (this one he hadnt started sleeping with yet) She and I had a long conversations yesterday afternoon, then she had a long conversation with him last night and he managed to smooth talk her into still dating him. I am pissed, I am hurt, I am jealous, and I do not like who this has made me AT ALL. And I for sure have not presented myself with dignity. 

So, lesson learned. I have a lot of work to do on myself still, that is obvious. Houstondad, dont make this same mistake I did, and keep pursuing when it isnt going anywhere. It seems that you are getting it.


----------



## Jellybeans

Houstondad said:


> Your story of Grandpa is like mine. I am 42 and she's 28. Right on the bubble. I can't recall the last time I had a crush. Didn't even have one with the person I married! But with her, I did. And when the minute I started to give up, to realize our interests in each other were not the same, she blindsides me that she really likes me. Not fair. I truly think she can't make up her mind. One minute she's into me, the next she's falling back on thinking of her EX.
> And I've finally realized....she's not worth it to me. Not now.


I think it is bull that she was all "I really like you" after all that mess. It's lame. And if she is not over ex, it may be a timing thin. But either way, it means it's not meant for you. I say, mov eon, as much as it hurts.

And you just confirmed/made me notice it may not be the age thing that bothers Grandpa... cause we have the same age differences (me with him and you with this chick). 



3Xnocharm said:


> If anyone relates to this, its me, you know that. Mr NoChem had brought *yet a third woman* into our mess to start dating.


Whoa! A third? What in the heck? This guy sounds like super bad news. Total player. 

Difference between our stories is I never slept with Grandpa. I really need to get laid. It has been so long. He was going to be The Chosen One and doesn't even know it.


----------



## Jellybeans

2galsmom said:


> Be honest with yourself, how much of the allure was that she was 28 and you are 42? She will take whatever you give her that suits her, if she comes back and you "give into advances" don't expect her to honor any strings you may have attached to your giving.


I hear what you are saying but as the female who is on the other end of this, with the same age difference, Grandpa's age for me isn't the "allure." I just generally liked him, was/am attracted and wanted to get to know him better. There was no ultierior motive on my part or me wanting to use him.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> I hear what you are saying but as the female who is on the other end of this, with the same age difference, Grandpa's age for me isn't the "allure." I just generally liked him, was/am attracted and wanted to get to know him better. There was no ultierior motive on my part or me wanting to use him.


Cant we call him "older dude" instead of Grandpa, kinda freaks me out, JB! :rofl:


----------



## Jellybeans

Hahaha. Thunder nicknamed him and it stuck.

Lol...can you IMAGINE if I ever actually called the guy that?! So funny. :rofl:


----------



## Houstondad

Haha! I'm cool with older dude too.
Physically, I'm in the best shape in my life. I'm 5'10", 175lbs and all lean muscle. I'm told I look 10 years younger and I FEEL even younger than that. I'm healthier and stronger than over half the 20's and 30 year old men I see. Course, I'm from Houston (the #2 Obese city in the Nation) so it's easy for me to say this. So hearing the term Grandpa just makes me laugh.

Anyways, I still haven't replied back to her last text (the cancellation) and she hasn't texted again either. 
I find myself thinking that by not replying, it gives the appearance that I'm upset with her which in turn could make me appear thin-skinned and weak emotionally. 
I'm wondering if I should have shot her a text back saying something to the effect of, "Bummer you couldn't go out Sunday. Had a lot of fun at Top Golf and the Ice Rink. Next time you wanna do something, hit me up."
I wonder if it's too late to even state that?

I'm not as disappointed/hurt now as I was when I first received the last text, but it does show that I invested too much, too soon emotionally in her. I haven't done this with the other girls I dated since my divorce. And they in turn fell in love for me, while I found myself holding back.
This one was different ( I wasn't in love, but def infatuated). I'll never know if she knew how to play a good game to hook me, or if it was just simply that it was complicated with an EX that she was struggling getting over with emotionally.
I hope I learn from it the next time I meet a woman where I find myself becoming infatuated and put on the brakes.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yeah honestly you should have told her that WHEN she texted you back, not days later... 

I would just leave it. 

If she wants to reach out to you, she will. 

I'd say, just call it a wash because you say she is still stuck on the ex. 


Who knows what her special recipe was for getting you all ga-ga. I think it's a good thing that it happened for you, finally, post-divorce because, even if nothing pans out from it, it means you are HEALING, being that you were able to even let yourself feel something like that for someone. I s'pose it's the same with Grandpa for me. First time in foreva that I felt something like that for anyone, that kind of attraction...since I split with Mr. Ex-Jelly.

I did send merry xmas to G-pa. And he wished me one back with smiley faces and Xmas tree emjois. I didn't respond after that. And no word at all since... Should I stop reaching out to him? Or invite him out again? (I did the last time and he came over and I made him dinner). This was a month and a week ago though. Should I just give him up for new year? I feel like if I see him again I am going to pounce him. I am really really sexually frustrated, guys. Like, the worst ever. I want him to, um, end the drought but I do not want to throw myself at him. Maybe a "Will I see you in this new year? (say yes)." Or "I'd like to see you again." (Is that presumptous?) WHY in good LORD would he kiss me 7th grade style for two flippin hours if he wasn't attracted to me at least. And stay cuddling me til wee hours of the morning on the following date/kissing me. WTF. 

Houston, and others, what you think?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah honestly you should have told her that WHEN she texted you back, not days later...
> 
> I would just leave it.
> If she wants to reach out to you, she will.
> I'd say, just call it a wash because you say she is still stuck on the ex.
> 
> Who knows what her special recipe was for getting you all ga-ga.* I think it's a good thing that it happened for you, finally, post-divorce because, even if nothing pans out from it, it means you are HEALING, being that you were able to even let yourself feel something like that for someone.* I s'pose it's the same with Grandpa for me. First time in foreva that I felt something like that for anyone, that kind of attraction...since I split with Mr. Ex-Jelly.
> 
> *This is what I have been trying to tell myself with my experience. At least I have discovered that I really am capable of still being able to feel something for someone else! *
> 
> I did send merry xmas to G-pa. And he wished me one back with smiley faces and Xmas tree emjois. I didn't respond after that. And no word at all since... Should I stop reaching out to him? Or invite him out again? (I did the last time and he came over and I made him dinner). This was a month and a week ago though. Should I just give him up for new year? I feel like if I see him again I am going to pounce him. I am really really sexually frustrated, guys. Like, the worst ever. I want him to, um, end the drought but I do not want to throw myself at him. Maybe a "Will I see you in this new year? (say yes)." Or "I'd like to see you again." (Is that presumptous?) WHY in good LORD would he kiss me 7th grade style for two flippin hours if he wasn't attracted to me at least. And stay cuddling me til wee hours of the morning on the following date/kissing me. WTF.
> 
> Houston, and others, what you think?
> 
> *It cant hurt to shoot him a "hope to see you again" text, what have you got to lose at this point, right?  As far as his motives with the makeout session, that one is a :scratchhead: for sure. I am thinking either a) he presumed that it would lead to sex and was disappointed when it didnt, or b) he went exclusive with someone shortly after that. Those are my thoughts, anyway.*


----------



## Mo42

Houstondad said:


> Haha! I'm cool with older dude too.
> Physically, I'm in the best shape in my life. I'm 5'10", 175lbs and all lean muscle. I'm told I look 10 years younger and I FEEL even younger than that. I'm healthier and stronger than over half the 20's and 30 year old men I see. Course, I'm from Houston (the #2 Obese city in the Nation) so it's easy for me to say this. So hearing the term Grandpa just makes me laugh.
> 
> Anyways, I still haven't replied back to her last text (the cancellation) and she hasn't texted again either.
> I find myself thinking that by not replying, it gives the appearance that I'm upset with her which in turn could make me appear thin-skinned and weak emotionally.
> I'm wondering if I should have shot her a text back saying something to the effect of, "Bummer you couldn't go out Sunday. Had a lot of fun at Top Golf and the Ice Rink. Next time you wanna do something, hit me up."
> I wonder if it's too late to even state that?
> 
> I'm not as disappointed/hurt now as I was when I first received the last text, but it does show that I invested too much, too soon emotionally in her. I haven't done this with the other girls I dated since my divorce. And they in turn fell in love for me, while I found myself holding back.
> This one was different ( I wasn't in love, but def infatuated). I'll never know if she knew how to play a good game to hook me, or if it was just simply that it was complicated with an EX that she was struggling getting over with emotionally.
> I hope I learn from it the next time I meet a woman where I find myself becoming infatuated and put on the brakes.


Listen, do not text her back, but always be pleasant. Once again you are over thinking things, even about backing off. 

You didnt invest too much emotionally, you invested too much emotionally in a hypothetical situation. You need to NOT care until AFTER you know each other. Reading this thread, you clearly had her pedastalized before you had said more than HELLO to her. 

Dont give a s**t next time and then AFTER you casually, confidently hang out with, get to know a girl and realize you like her then maybe start thinking those irrational thoughts you were here without even knowing this person. 

I am taking a lot of grief in my thread for 'going to fast' b/c my divorce is not final. How I met this new girl though, is that she was an old friend and i asked her out for drinks with absolutely NO expectations other than catching up with an old friend. I had no inhibitions b/c i was not trying to impress her, i was just myself and shared my story and listened to hers. I found out that she has many of the same loves as I do, and I also found out that I love hanging out with her and she feels the same. Now I have to make sure I handle everything right with going fwd, through my divorce, establishing my independence and so on, but I would much rather be doing this knowing that I can do whatever I want and i just dont care about how i am judged than terribly over thinking every thought or feeling that passes through my mind.


----------



## Houstondad

That's my problem. I've ALWAYS given a **** about others. I'm a school counselor for crying out loud ( too much FN irony). How do I STOP giving a **** about someone, especially someone I like? 
And yes, I had her on a pedestal from the very start and she knows it. Totally set myself up for Plan B right away and that's where I'm at. 
I want to get to a point where I don't care what others think or how they judge me. That I also stop over thinking all the time and figure things out on my own. And not be afraid of failure.


----------



## Houstondad

Jelly-
My situation sounds similar to yours and you are asking ME for advice?!? haha
It's disappointing when someone you really like doesn't seem to reciprocate the same feelings back to you. And we make it worse because we end up projecting how we feel about them to how they might feel about us.
Just like what I've been hearing; if he wants to see you, he'll contact you. He won't give up on you suddenly if he's into you, even if he's trying to play the "game".

Maybe my question should be, Do you want a relationship that would develop into a LTR with him? Or just some nookie-nookie/friends with benefits connection? If it's the latter, then by all means send him a text inviting him over for drinks tonight to celebrate the New Year.
If it's for a relationship, keep the ball in his court and wait for him. And in the meantime, keep your door open for other guys. By the way, do you live near Houston?


----------



## doubletrouble

Jellybeans said:


> Difference between our stories is I never slept with Grandpa. I really need to get laid. It has been so long. He was going to be The Chosen One and doesn't even know it.


Jelly, if he's that much older than you, and you kissed for two hours, he knows he can have you. 

As for OP, when I was 42 and had a gal kiss me that passionately, I would not have pushed her away. I would have taken her right there, on the floor, just inside the door. Twice.

Just sayin...


----------



## doubletrouble

Houston, I used to live there back in the late 70s. I don't remember it being a fat city, just full of fat cats... Used to drive the 610 when I was bored... 

You've gotten good advice here. The gal is playing you along. Keeping you in the wings for when this thing falls completely apart with her ex. I don't know how long their relationship was or how it had been going, but let's just say they were real serious. And I don't know why or how it fell apart. Apparently she got dumped. 

In my experience, when someone gets dumped, they spend an inordinate amount of time pining over the relationship, trying to figure out when he's coming back, trying to figure out what went wrong etc etc. She doesn't have the mental or emotional time for you. Not completely. 

She likes you, she's checked out your package and so on, but she's not emotionally available. She would've had sex with you that ONE night, and what would that have done for your ego? It might have given her a little sense of regaining her power, but it would've just confused you more, and made you feel the fool. You don't need that. Nobody needs that. Some people just live that way; they think it's how the game is played. A waste of energy, trust me. 

Just be you. Live your life. Do things that interest you. Like another poster said, he was able to just relax with this gal and be himself. If it works out and things start to click on other levels with another gal, that's great. And maybe you'll get into an intimate relationship that only lasts 6 months. And ends OK... That's OK too. 

You invest your heart and fall too easily and you end up turning into someone who's not yourself. You sacrifice your self for this love, this creature on a pedestal who doesn't exist. And you get burned. Because you set yourself up for failure by not retaining your SELF. The right gal will fall in love with who you are, without adjustments. 

We're all humans and we are all flawed. The main thrust is to find someone who's flaws you can live with. You have to kiss a few frogettes to find that princess. It's OK. There's no hurry. Relax! You know you can have feelings again, and that's a sign of health. You're going to be OK.


----------



## Jellybeans

doubletrouble said:


> Jelly, if he's that much older than you, and you kissed for two hours, he knows he can have you.


Meaning what exactly? I personally don't kiss people that long unless I am into them... Tat's a long fcking time to be locking lips. 

I don't do games so if I am not into something I will let me them know...


----------



## doubletrouble

Jellybeans said:


> Who knows what her special recipe was for getting you all ga-ga. I think it's a good thing that it happened for you, finally, post-divorce because, even if nothing pans out from it, it means you are HEALING, being that you were able to even let yourself feel something like that for someone. I s'pose it's the same with Grandpa for me. First time in foreva that I felt something like that for anyone, that kind of attraction...since I split with Mr. Ex-Jelly.
> 
> I did send merry xmas to G-pa. And he wished me one back with smiley faces and Xmas tree emjois. I didn't respond after that. And no word at all since... Should I stop reaching out to him? Or invite him out again? (I did the last time and he came over and I made him dinner). This was a month and a week ago though. Should I just give him up for new year? I feel like if I see him again I am going to pounce him. I am really really sexually frustrated, guys. Like, the worst ever. I want him to, um, end the drought but I do not want to throw myself at him. Maybe a "Will I see you in this new year? (say yes)." Or "I'd like to see you again." (Is that presumptous?) WHY in good LORD would he kiss me 7th grade style for two flippin hours if he wasn't attracted to me at least. And stay cuddling me til wee hours of the morning on the following date/kissing me. WTF.
> 
> Houston, and others, what you think?


Jelly, to be blunt, it sounds like you're being played a little, teased a lot, and responding with frustration because your gonads aren't settled. I know that feeling; I've been there a LOT in my life. And it has led me into trouble. 

This old guy (who is probably younger than me) knows you want him. Why he isn't taking you is beyond me, but for whatever reason(s), he isn't.* You need to move on.* You and Houston really do sound a lot alike, because you've made out with this guy, dated him, had him to your house, cooked for him -- I'm sorry but even as naive as I've been in my younger years I know when a woman is doing all that for me there's something hot in the kitchen. 

I don't say "move on" lightly because I know that's not what you want to hear, and that it hurts something inside you that instantly cries "shut up, DT!" when you read it. You want Grampa to call you up and tell you he's on his way with a bottle of champagne and some scented massage oil, but that's not going to happen. Just as someone said earlier to Houston, if he was that into you, he's have been "in" you by now. And I'm sorry that I don't have any words to fix that in your favor. 

But just as you said to Houston, you are healing as well, because you can have these hot feelings for someone who's not your ex. That's a great sign, frankly. When I first got divorced, many years ago, I was sure I would never have those feelings again. A few years later, sure as hell, I was feeling them even stronger. But I made the same mistake you two are trying to make, and forced myself into a relationship that was NOT GOOD for me. Wow, was it not good!

Ease up. Relax. Take care of your sexual tension another way. This isn't the right guy; he'd only be Mr. Right Now. And it doesn't sound to me like that's what you're looking for, or need.


----------



## doubletrouble

Jellybeans said:


> Meaning what exactly? I personally don't kiss people that long unless I am into them... Tat's a long fcking time to be locking lips.
> 
> I don't do games so if I am not into something I will let me them know...


Meaning what I wrote above. I am not in any way saying you were playing games. But if I were to lock lips with someone, as a single, consenting adult, for two hours and it didn't result in naked, raw sex, I'd say this isn't going to happen. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt; I'm not trying to be harsh. But that's just one man's opinion from what I've read.


----------



## Jellybeans

doubletrouble said:


> Jelly, to be blunt, it sounds like you're being played a little, teased a lot, and responding with frustration *because your gonads aren't settled*.


:rofl:



doubletrouble said:


> I don't say "move on" lightly because I know that's not what you want to hear, and that it hurts something inside you that instantly cries "shut up, DT!" when you read it.


::scrunches up face like a child who's been TOLD. LOL.



doubletrouble said:


> You want Grampa to call you up and tell you he's on his way with a bottle of champagne and some scented massage oil, but that's not going to happen.


Ok, I am seriously laughing over here at the mental picture of an old grandpa...pushing his walker, coming at me with a bottle of bubbly and massage oil...(in my head he is wearing glasses, too). Hilarious! 



doubletrouble said:


> But just as you said to Houston, you are healing as well, because you can have these hot feelings for someone who's not your ex. That's a great sign, frankly.


Absolute!



doubletrouble said:


> Ease up. Relax. Take care of your sexual tension another way. This isn't the right guy; he'd only be Mr. Right Now. And it doesn't sound to me like that's what you're looking for, or need.


Righto. I need a steady...lover. Cause *hand*ling it the other way is getting, quite frankly, boring.



doubletrouble said:


> Meaning what I wrote above. I am not in any way saying you were playing games. But if I were to lock lips with someone, as a single, consenting adult, for two hours and it didn't result in naked, raw sex, I'd say this isn't going to happen. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt; I'm not trying to be harsh. But that's just one man's opinion from what I've read.


Oh so maybe he's not into me sexually? Doy! But he did participate in the making out and was very handsy. Ooh la la. And I doubt it was the sexual thing. He seemed turned on. If you know what I mean.  Either way, I HEAR you. Event hough I wish it were different.

But like that one arrticle said... if it isn't a FCK YES, then it's a HELL NO. 

Moving into the new year forward--looking for some fresh blood to be my lovah. He needs to be equal parts handsome, elegant and ... discreet. Muahaahaha.


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## Jellybeans

Houstondad said:


> That's my problem. I've ALWAYS given a **** about others. I'm a school counselor for crying out loud ( too much FN irony).


Really? That is awesome! 

You already know how to "get over" someone--

Time and no contact. True story.

I think it would be so cool to be a school counselor, by the way.

And no, I am not anywhere near Houston. LOL. I am far far away on the east coast somewhere... Hehehehe.


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## doubletrouble

Now you're sounding healthy, JB! :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans

doubletrouble said:


> A few years later, sure as hell, I was feeling them even stronger. *But I made the same mistake you two are trying to make, and forced myself into a relationship that was NOT GOOD for me. Wow, was it not good!
> *


Ok, do tell. We want to hear your fun stories, too! What is the backstory/what happened? Are you dating anyone now?


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## doubletrouble

Meh, it was the wrong woman, at the wrong time, who cheated on me with a married man. After I had divorced W#1 for cheating on me... with a married man (who she married and has had a kid with and still with as far as I know). 

When I discovered I could have those feelings, I threw myself into the relationship with all my might, and she more or less was able to compartmentalize me. I did stupid, romantic things for her when in retrospect, I should've been running for the hills. 

That was 20 years ago, and now I'm in R with the latest one (who also cheated on me with a married man...), knowing full well (in retrospect) what I've stepped into. 

I don't want to do another relationship after this one, if it fails. I'm too soon old and too late smart.


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## Conrad

doubletrouble said:


> Meh, it was the wrong woman, at the wrong time, who cheated on me with a married man. After I had divorced W#1 for cheating on me... with a married man (who she married and has had a kid with and still with as far as I know).
> 
> When I discovered I could have those feelings, I threw myself into the relationship with all my might, and she more or less was able to compartmentalize me. I did stupid, romantic things for her when in retrospect, I should've been running for the hills.
> 
> That was 20 years ago, and now I'm in R with the latest one (who also cheated on me with a married man...), knowing full well (in retrospect) what I've stepped into.
> 
> I don't want to do another relationship after this one, if it fails. I'm too soon old and too late smart.


It's called codependence.

Are you in therapy?


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## doubletrouble

Conrad, did you read the part that said that was 20 years ago? 

Nice armchair diagnosis.


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## Jellybeans

Whoa! Sorry to hear of all the stuff that went down.
Finding a suitable partner REALLY is like finding a needle in a haystack.

What is crazy to me is that after going through the complete and total insanity and heartbreak and trauma that was divorce, that I even WANT to date anyone anymore. LOL.


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## doubletrouble

IKR? You just know you're never going to feel THAT feeling again, for anyone. We call it baggage... 

But it happens, and yeah you might make another foolish choice, and swear off relationships again. When you've done it enough times, you'd think your picker was more fine-tuned. But there's no accounting for what's hidden in other people's minds. 

I think one of the best things is to establish boundaries really early in the relationship. Maybe some verification stage; at least shared passwords and open phones. It might sound militant to the potential mate, but if the love is real, the communication is open, and the intensity for the relationship is balanced, such a conversation should be welcomed. And two-sided. 

It would be a good litmus test before taking things farther.


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## Conrad

doubletrouble said:


> Conrad, did you read the part that said that was 20 years ago?
> 
> Nice armchair diagnosis.


Good luck to you.


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## thunderstruck

Jellybeans said:


> Hahaha. Thunder nicknamed him and it stuck.
> 
> Lol...can you IMAGINE if I ever actually called the guy that?! So funny.


You should. He'd come over and take you, twice - "Grandpa? Why you young whippersnapper, I'll show you some grandpa.":whip:


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## Jellybeans

Don't give me any ideas.


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## thunderstruck

doubletrouble said:


> Meaning what I wrote above. I am not in any way saying you were playing games. But if I were to lock lips with someone, as a single, consenting adult, for two hours and it didn't result in naked, raw sx, I'd say this isn't going to happen. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt; I'm not trying to be harsh. But that's just one man's opinion from what I've read.


Agree with this. I could have done that as a 12 yo, but as a grown azz man, I'm not going to JUST kiss for 2 hours. Nothing negative against you, JB, just giving a dude's point of view on this. At some point well under 2 hours, I'd be trying to get into the cookie jar, or I would have called it a night. Better to leave a little anticipation for the next date.

Now...why a 40-something man would smooch with you for hours, obviously showing great interest in you, and then later showing no interest...who the F knows. Some things just can't be explained.


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## Jellybeans

thunderstruck said:


> Better to leave a little anticipation for the next date.


? Expand.


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## thunderstruck

Jellybeans said:


> Righto. I need a steady...lover. Cause *hand*ling it the other way is getting, quite frankly, boring.


Work on your technique?


Jellybeans said:


> Moving into the new year forward--looking for some fresh blood to be my lovah. He needs to be equal parts handsome, elegant and ... discreet. Muahaahaha.


That should be easy...guys like that are falling out of the trees.


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## thunderstruck

Jellybeans said:


> ? Expand.


Instead of smooching for 2 hours at the end of date #2, I would have cut it much shorter. Get you warmed up, stop, make plans to meet again and leave. 

Your anticipation for more thunder would hopefully build better that way.:smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans

thunderstruck said:


> Instead of smooching for 2 hours at the end of date #2, I would have cut it much shorter. Get you warmed up, stop, make plans to meet again and leave.
> 
> Your anticipation for more thunder would hopefully build better that way.:smthumbup:


:rofl: 

Hee hee. 

Well now I Have tips for next time. From a man. So ooooh yeah! I am so in there! ::high-fives Thunder for the good advice:: :smthumbup:


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## thunderstruck

Jellybeans said:


> Well now I Have tips for next time. From a man. So ooooh yeah! I am so in there! ::high-fives Thunder for the good advice:: :smthumbup:


If nothing else, if a guy pulls that smooth technique on you, you can say, "I know what you're doing, you jackazz. Now you get to wait longer."


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## Jellybeans

With this knowledge, I am going to be a great James Bondette 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thunderstruck

Jellybeans said:


> With this knowledge, I am going to be a great James Bondette
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's cool. Just don't choose this name, it's already taken...

***** Galore Scene (James Bond - Goldfinger) FULL HD - YouTube


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## doubletrouble

Jelly, I thought all women knew this. 
You must be one of the rare ones who doesn't know how to play "girl games."
:smthumbup:


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## 3Xnocharm

Hey Houstondad, how are things going?


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## Ally Kirkwood

Paradise said:


> Geez...I'm glad you posted this thread. I do this exact same thing to myself all the time. I get thinking about every possible thing and then I am so worked up that it becomes a let-down if she says no...
> 
> Reading this thread is like living in my own head. Thanks for posting this. I need to work on some things...


I am having the same problem right now with a nice girl who works at a shop nearby, I had decided finally I was going to ask her out, but after I had paid for what I had bought there, my heart said "ask her out", the words just would not come out and I edged away slowly out of the shop, I really felt so down about that, why could I not just ask her out and then she will know how I feel!!


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## notmyrealname4

Ally Kirkwood said:


> I am having the same problem right now with a nice girl who works at a shop nearby, I had decided finally I was going to ask her out, but after I had paid for what I had bought there, my heart said "ask her out", the words just would not come out and I edged away slowly out of the shop, I really felt so down about that, why could I not just ask her out and then she will know how I feel!!


Ally,

Just keep going back to the shop to buy stuff. And have a few more casual conversations with her until you feel more confident that she would like to go out with you.

If worse comes to worse; you ask her out, she says no - don't shop there anymore.

Btw, you could start your own thread to get more advice, if you want. This one is dead now for over a year.:smile2:


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## EleGirl

Ally,

this is an old thread. Please start your own thread and talk out your issues on it. Then others can help you.


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