# Need sanity check for 'just friends' situation



## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

I'll try and make this brief, but I'm trying to figure out what to do about a 'just friends' situation with my wife. We are married, mid 30s, have 2 young children over 4. Life has been stressful with small children around and we've gone through some rough times as she basically shut me off emotionally and sexually after the last child. For a couple years we've been trying to work that out, with some mild success. She has never really been sexual with me and I've never really felt that wanted or desired in our 15 years together, but I've basically come to accept her as she is (Low drive, unemotional) because we otherwise have a happy household and great children that we focus on.

So, I was willing to accept that I can't get the relationship I want, but now comes along this guy. It started last year. She's stay at home and met him through some social network community. At first I was a bit annoyed, as you always are when a single guy takes interest in your wife, but I didn't want to come across as insecure and it seemed all innocent so I didn't make a deal out of it. That is until I saw how he was talking to her. He would compliment her every time they talked, telling her how smart and pretty she is and how her husband better know how lucky he is. It was a lot of inappropriate stuff you expect from a guy trying to move in on a married woman. He's trying to get her to open up. He's always suggesting meetings when I'm not around and trying to come over. He also calls her by some terms of endearment at this time.

At first I just talk to her and tell her how uncomfortable this makes me and that it hurts me. She acknowledges that he steps over the line and is inappropriate, but brushes it off because she doesn't feel that way. I call bull**** basically and after a few more interactions I actually step in and tell him to knock it off. She was actually okay with that and he stopped contacting her AT ALL. What does that tell you about his intentions?

So fast forward probably 6 months or so and she has invited him over and started contact with him again. WTF. I'm pissed, but so far haven't really brought it up as I'm weighing my options now. Clearly my feelings on it don't matter and she's not naive as to his intentions. She has a million excuses as to why it's okay. He wants her, that's not a question to me. You don't call another man's wife by terms of endearment or constantly tell her how great she is. So far she's not really reciprocated, but she's opening up more and more. I can see it. She's also deleting their messages.

I'm basically at the end of my rope, but there are no good options. So far the only thing she's really done is not tell him to get lost and knock off the bull****. She indulges in the attention and validation, but hasn't really returned it. I think it's only a matter of time. Together with our past that I described, I really feel like ****. I can't imagine putting my children through the heartache of a separation, but I can't be a doormat, especially when all I want from her is to feel like I'm desired and wanted for something other than being a dad. What's the point in having another discussion about how much this hurts me and how obvious he is and what this does for our marriage? She just does what she wants anyway. That's sort of a pattern in our marriage when it comes to my feelings. They don't matter or are ridiculous (I'm exaggerating here because I'm hurt, because other than the lack of affection and emotion, she's a good mom and caring person and isn't very demanding of me).

Anyway, I know this is a biased place to ask for advice on this, but I'm really wondering if I'm just being insecure. Financially we can't even separate and I'm sure I'd be ruined, but she seems to want to play with fire. Thoughts?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> He's always suggesting meetings when I'm not around and trying to come over. He also calls her by some terms of endearment at this time.
> 
> At first I just talk to her and tell her how uncomfortable this makes me and that it hurts me. *She acknowledges that he steps over the line and is inappropriate, *but brushes it off because she doesn't feel that way.
> 
> So fast forward probably 6 months or so and *she has invited him over* and started contact with him again. WTF.


What in the ever long fvck? 

OMG. This is bad. Really bad. The fact that she is inviting him into your marital home is another level of crazy and disrespectful. Do you see that? This is completely insane. 

She has already told you that she agrees it is inappropriate so she knows full well that it's wrong. My alarm is more with the fact that it seems she is even willing to have him in your house. That to me is the ultimate disrespect. That should not be happening at all. 

You are right to think your feelings do not matter to her--because she is showing you that they don't.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the situation were reversed she'd be p!ssed.

Call her out on it. Ask her how she would feel if the situation were flipped. You inviting women to your home while she's not there, the same women that keep flirting with you and who you've acknowledged make your wife uncomfortable.


My smutty sense tells me they are at minimum having an emotional affair. She is very willing and open to let him in further too.

Put your foot down.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You aren't being insecure. Or rather, you are, but with good reason - your wife completely disregarded your feelings and thoughts about this guy to start contact with him again in order to get the validation and admiration she, apparently, wants/needs from someone who isn't you.

I'd talk with her again, but this time upping the ante since she blatantly disregarded your feelings. "We're heading for a marriage failure. I feel that you don't respect me when you disregard our discussions and agreement that you wouldn't have contact with this guy. I can't respect you as a wife when you do that."

I think there's a book, "Not Just Friends" that people recommend. If your wife claims "just friends" give her that book in the hopes it might open her eyes to emotional affairs.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

This isn't insecurity these are FACTS.

This is NOT okay.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Even if it was a minor issue she's not respecting you. However it seems she can't get enough of him. She's also negligecting your needs and your children's needs by spending time with him. Does she work? She may have too much time on her hands too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Also you are not putting your kids through anything, she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Can I just get some perspective on this part:

He's a single guy and seems lonely. He calls her things like baby and honey every time they talk. He has to work in how amazing she is in every single interaction.

Take away the rest of what I wrote, it is 100% appropriate for me to say that she cuts contact with this guy right? These are not appropriate interactions for a married woman and a single man, even if I thought she did not feel the same way correct?


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

I'm also kind of thinking that this may be our destiny in the end. She never really wanted me sexually. It always felt out of duty. That's a whole other story. She's a good woman otherwise and I say that objectively. She just never really gave herself to me intimately or emotionally and I've never been able to figure out why because there are not other issues that would cause this, other than her being generally LL or just never finding me attractive. It seems the harder I push to 'fix' us, the further I push her away (I have run a MAP before anybody asks).


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Anyway, I know this is a biased place to ask for advice on this, but I'm really wondering if I'm just being insecure. Financially we can't even separate and I'm sure I'd be ruined, but she seems to want to play with fire. Thoughts?


No you are not being insecure.

If there is any chance of you saving your marriage, she needs to end the friendship with this guy. She needs to put your needs above this "Friend". You are her husband, not the other guy. 

Have you read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass?? Download it right now and start.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Find out more about this guy expose him to his family and at jos workplace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Can I just get some perspective on this part:
> 
> He's a single guy and seems lonely. He calls her things like baby and honey every time they talk. He has to work in how amazing she is in every single interaction.
> 
> Take away the rest of what I wrote, it is 100% appropriate for me to say that she cuts contact with this guy right? These are not appropriate interactions for a married woman and a single man, correct, even if I thought she did not feel the same way?



I would call that an affair an emotional one maybe but still. Very innapproriate, you wife will protest no cheaters will agree its wrong. There's a great book if you have not read it "not just friends" by Shielry Glass. Check it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Can I just get some perspective on this part:
> 
> He's a single guy and seems lonely. He calls her things like baby and honey every time they talk. He has to work in how amazing she is in every single interaction.
> 
> Take away the rest of what I wrote, it is 100% appropriate for me to say that she cuts contact with this guy right? These are not appropriate interactions for a married woman and a single man, even if I thought she did not feel the same way correct?


You are 100% right in defending your marriage from this guy. He is no good for your marriage. Lonely or not, he has no respect for your marriage by being way inappropriate. Notice he was trying to hang out with her when you weren't around. A man with an ounce of respect for you/your marriage, would NEVER come to your house alone while you were not there, especially after you told him to stay away from your wife. 

Your wife is trying to gaslight you. Sometimes things are exactly what they seem.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I'll try and make this brief, but I'm trying to figure out what to do about a 'just friends' situation with my wife. We are married, mid 30s, have 2 young children over 4. Life has been stressful with small children around and we've gone through some rough times as *she basically shut me off emotionally and sexually after the last child. For a couple years we've been trying to work that out, with some mild success. She has never really been sexual with me and I've never really felt that wanted or desired in our 15 years together*, but I've basically come to accept her as she is (Low drive, unemotional) because we otherwise have a happy household and great children that we focus on.
> 
> So, I was willing to accept that I can't get the relationship I want, but now comes along this guy. It started last year. She's stay at home and met him through some social network community. At first I was a bit annoyed, as you always are when a single guy takes interest in your wife, but I didn't want to come across as insecure and it seemed all innocent so I didn't make a deal out of it. That is until I saw how he was talking to her. He would compliment her every time they talked, telling her how smart and pretty she is and how her husband better know how lucky he is. It was a lot of inappropriate stuff you expect from a guy trying to move in on a married woman. He's trying to get her to open up. He's always suggesting meetings when I'm not around and trying to come over. He also calls her by some terms of endearment at this time.
> 
> ...


Every single bolded pice her is divorce worthy.

Enough is enough.

I'd talk to a lawyer yesterday and start geting my doks linned up.
I'd implement, live the 180 from now on.
Then I'd serve her divorce papers.

If she miraculously claims to finnaly "understand" then I'd lay the law. A few boundaires and putting the ball in her court for a limited period of time to improve the marriage from her part.

For now tell her you don't share. Is this guy married or have a SO? Expose him ASAP.
I'd also hack her FB acount and cut her access alsong with cutting of the texting capacity.
Don't finance her disrespect.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I wish some men were posting in here about how wrong this is/how wrong that she's inviting this guy to your marital home.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you certain they have not been in contact all along? Calling her 'baby' and 'honey' .. He does this in front of you?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Your wife sounds like she is fishing for an affair. You do not invite a single man over to your home after he has been inappropriate and told to back off by you. 

She knows what she is doing. You may want to get her more intel with a var and or key logger 

However you also have more than enough to lay down the law now. What she going to do... Withhold sex. She already does that. Don't beg for scraps. Be a man
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

workindad said:


> Your wife sounds like she is fishing for an affair. *You do not invite a single man over to your home after he has Ben inappropriate and told to back off by you. *
> 
> She knows what she is doing.


Over and over again this needs to be stated!


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Financially we can't even separate and I'm sure I'd be ruined, but she seems to want to play with fire. Thoughts?


Friend, you need to get past that "we can't even separate" nonsense, real quick. Because her level of disrespect for you is off the charts. The only way to effectively deal with it is to be willing to end your marriage - if you have to. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.

Here is an example of what you could tell her:

_I can't control what you do. I can only control what I will accept from you. And I'm telling you as calmly and as straightforward as I know how. I am not willing to accept this inappropriate relationship that you have with this man, or any other man.

The level of disrespect that you're showing me leaves me no other choice but to tell you - It's him or me. And if it's me, that means absolutely no contact with him and your willingness to let me verify that no contact.

So the choice is yours._

Let me also add, that part of that no contact means she hand writes him a no contact letter that you review and mail yourself. No sentimentality, just to the point. This is a MUST.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.


Because he is BAD NEWS.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

badmemory said:


> Friend, you need to get past that "we can't even separate" nonsense, real quick. Because *her level of disrespect for you is off the charts.* The only way to effectively deal with it is to be willing to end your marriage - if you have to. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.
> 
> Here is an example of what you could tell her:
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.


Geez I wonder why, man this is worse than what you think. You need a crash course on how to end this pronto.

Lay the law, him or you. No contact, turn off the Internet and phones if you need to. Spyware, start looking for evidence look at computer accounts in the closet, under the beds, behind drawers. Ask your children to tell you want happens when he comes, what goes on, do they stay in sight. I know they are kids so innocently ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.




If you really want to know what is going on plant a VAR in your living room and bedroom. There is more going on here than you know.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Thanks for the help. I don't feel so paranoid and ridiculous now. I'm really just trying to compile a list of rational points as to why this is so far over the line and risking our marriage that we are already trying to repair:

1) She already agreed that he's inappropriate and wants her.

2) He is still inappropriate in his language, which clearly demonstrates his intentions to steal her away.

3) Because of 1 and 2, she's not naive and is bathing in attention and validation from an outside source, despite me wanting to be the man she seeks this from.

4) Plan and simple I expressed that she's hurting me and making me uncomfortable, yet she continues anyway.

5) He tries to come over and be alone with her. He never asks to meet me or come over together and NO, I do not want to meet him now because it's too late for that. I will not be placated.

6) She deletes his messages and hides things from me.

7) I believe she's developing feelings for this man slowly and this will spell the end of our marriage and our martial home.

I want to bring all of this up as a final "state of the marriage" talk. See, whenever I talk to her about our issues, and it's 100% me that brings things up, it's always just 'fine' and she'll 'work on it', or she just gets angry. I want to use this to open up the can of worms here and get to the real issues. Does she find me attractive? Does she actually want out, but is too afraid to go there? Does she not actually love me, but feels guilty? Because that's the message I'm getting from here (there are actually other factors as well that lead me to these conclusions that I won't go into here). Basically, I just want to ask her if she's in or she's out and to really reflect on those words and not just tell me I'm overreacting.

I don't want to break up the home. It's the last thing I want. I will even accept not getting the relationship I want if we can have a happy household for our children AND I am at least respected. I think that's a fantasy of mine though.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Oh, by the way, I am very computer saavy and I do believe I have all of the information so far. While I've tried to get her to open up to me, I've scoured all of these internet forums for how to deal with this stuff and how to repair a marriage that suffers and I've tried all of the different strategies to do so. I guess in the end though I just want to make sure I'm reasonable given the information I have, which I believe is complete at this point.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Cutting straight to the point...

this man is spitting in your phucking face.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Cutting straight to the point...
> 
> this man is spitting in your phucking face.


So is his wife.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Jasel said:


> So is his wife.


Which is the main point. I really don't care about this guy. It's her response that is the main issue.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'd simply confront directly this man for the last time, and be sure he understands it's the last time.
Or he goes away (no texts, calls, walking to the other side of the street... and of course not puting a foot in your home ever again) of he will find a man with nothing to lose and a mission to screw his life forever.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Point 8). _Wife, how would you feed if the situation were reversed? How would you feel if I did XYZ with a woman and her her in our home when you're not around--the same woman you told me you felt uncomfortable about--the same woman I acknowledged was being inappropriate and who I admit wants me." _

Then paint a picture of it.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> We've gone through some rough times as she basically shut me off emotionally and sexually after the last child. For a couple years we've been trying to work that out, with some mild success. *Red Flag #1*
> 
> So, I was willing to accept that I can't get the relationship I want, but now comes along this guy. It started last year. She's stay at home and met him through some social network community. At first I was a bit annoyed, as you always are when a single guy takes interest in your wife, but I didn't want to come across as insecure and it seemed all innocent so I didn't make a deal out of it. That is until I saw how he was talking to her. He would compliment her every time they talked, telling her how smart and pretty she is and how her husband better know how lucky he is. It was a lot of inappropriate stuff you expect from a guy trying to move in on a married woman. He's trying to get her to open up. He's always suggesting meetings when I'm not around and trying to come over. He also calls her by some terms of endearment at this time.*Red Flag #2,3,4,5,6*
> 
> ...


Brother, I am sorry you are here...

I wouldn't call this place so much biased as I would experienced. Cheaters usually follow the same script.

Your wife has all the cards right now and holds all the power in your relationship. She is a SAHM... That gives her control in any separation that you could potentially have. She has established herself as the primary caregiver for your children and thus you can get really screwed financially in any separation. You need to make sure that you are documented as being very active in your kids lives. Make them breakfast etc...

You wife as a SAHM might be lonely or bored. You might be working your butt off so she can stay home and let her take care of the family. She seems to be taking care of herself...

You are not being insecure. My EX was doing what your wife is not and it did not turn out well.

I would set some boundaries if I were you.

No way that guy comes in the house. Throw him out and tell him he is not welcome. Tell your wife she can leave but hell if this PoS is coming in...

Your wife if she starts going down the road of doing whatever she wants is testing her control and being a SAHM, unfortunately she has a lot...

Tell her she needs to get a job because there is no such thing as a SAHM... She is a Stay at Home Family Care Taker and she is failing. She needs to respect your needs as a Husband so you can make money to pay the bills. Since she isn't doing that, then she needs to get a job. I'm just telling you this because if things go south, it could be financially devastating for you.

Seriously consider stop paying for her things... Get a key logger on her phone and check your phone records. See how long they have been talking and texting... It is inappropriate... How much? I don't know. Your wife is having an EA or beginning to and if left unchecked it will get worse.

Make sure you start taking charge in your life and be strong. She holds the cards now and it's not ok. 

Having another guy tell your wife how pretty she is more than one time is just unacceptable! You might want to keep the fox away from the hen house brother.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Oh, by the way, I am very computer saavy and I do believe I have all of the information so far. While I've tried to get her to open up to me, I've scoured all of these internet forums for how to deal with this stuff and how to repair a marriage that suffers. I guess in the end though I just want to make sure I'm reasonable given the information I have, which I believe is complete at this point.


You believe you have everything...
And then you run into ME. Resident VAR goon.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. Set bit rate to 44K and sensitivity to very high or better. Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off.

Put the second in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around.

Usual warning. If you hear another man get in her car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You always got your info from a PI or someone saw them.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.

Do this for two weeks then a him or me speech. Be ready to end it. Sorry.

We are effing twins almost. Duty sex the whole crappy thing. Hes 600 miles away tho so at I dont have him at the house.

My wifes EA was with an ex. Emails blah blah.

Except I gave her a him or me speech after investigating. She chose me tho is distant, checked out etc but I shut the EA down hard.

OH yea. Dont separate. He will be sharing her bed the first night. Separations like this lead one bad bad way. PA for sure.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I don't want to break up the home. It's the last thing I want. I will even accept not getting the relationship I want if we can have a happy household for our children AND I am at least respected. I think that's a fantasy of mine though.


Fair enough, if that's the way you want to live your life.

But I would offer some other advice. Take care of this issue first. 

You don't want to get into a back and forth with her on marital issues until she agrees to no contact. Once she does, and sends that no contact letter, *then *you can open the discussion to other things. 

Don't give her the opportunity to get you caught in blame shifting and subterfuge.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Oh, by the way, I am very computer saavy and I do believe I have all of the information so far. While I've tried to get her to open up to me, I've scoured all of these internet forums for how to deal with this stuff and how to repair a marriage that suffers and I've tried all of the different strategies to do so. I guess in the end though I just want to make sure I'm reasonable given the information I have, which I believe is complete at this point.


Keylogger. How are they communicating?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MovingAhead said:


> Brother, I am sorry you are here...
> 
> *I wouldn't call this place so much biased as I would experienced. *


:iagree::smthumbup:


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

No, what I mean is that I will certainly get different answers to my questions depending on where I post. I know of many places where I would get "take her on more dates" type of advice. Ya, trust me, if it were that easy we would be in marital bliss right now. I'm by no means perfect and I am willing to own up to anything I do that hurts her, but I never hear about it. So, even if she says she's lonely or that I did x, y, and z to her, it's all rationalizations because she never actually addressed it with me. I will not let her post-hoc justify this behavior. Like badmemory said, we can address this issue first, which will then hopefully lead to a bigger talk about why it was an issue in the first place. I'm hoping that can lead somewhere good, and not somewhere tragic.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

And when I said separation, I mean separate for good. If she touches this man, it's over, for good. There's been too much rejection of me for me to ever be able to forgive that. I'll be ruined financially I'm sure, but money is just money. It's really the relationship I have with my children that would be the most difficult thing to deal with if it went down that way.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Cutting straight to the point...
> 
> this man is spitting in your phucking face.





Jasel said:


> So is his wife.





notjustfriendsithink said:


> Which is the main point. I really don't care about this guy. It's her response that is the main issue.


No. It's not. It's past that.

The fox is already in the hen house, fixing the fence isn't going to help.

Listen... and this is not a dramatic analogy....

He is a malignant tumor, very likely TERMINAL to your family. 

She is the reason it's there.

What's the immediate priority? 

Remove and treat the tumor or the reason your marriage has it?


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No. It's not. It's past that.
> 
> The fox is already in the hen house, fixing the fence isn't going to help.
> 
> ...


What I meant was, why is it that she feels this is acceptable? Why does she treat me and our family with such open disrespect and think it's okay? These are the real issues, but I 100% agree that the first thing is a NC agreement.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Oh and I got about 5 hours of broken sleep last night as I dreamed about all the possibilities here.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Even if you get this guy out of your lives, how could you live in a sexless marriage the rest of your days. Life is too short for that imo.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> What I meant was, why is it that she feels this is acceptable? Why does she treat me and our family with such open disrespect and think it's okay?


Ask her.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Oh and I got about 5 hours of broken sleep last night as I dreamed about all the possibilities here.


Totally normal reaction to your situation. The bottom line is you need to get some boundaries and stick to them. Cause right now you are showing her you are a doormat. 

No doubt your sex life (lack of) is directly related to this dude in your lives/marriage.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Totally normal reaction to your situation. The bottom line is you need to get some boundaries and stick to them. Cause right now you are showing her you are a doormat.
> 
> No doubt your sex life (lack of) is directly related to this dude in your lives/marriage.


No, that was present well before this. I would say that this dude is just another symptom of the greater issue of why she finds it difficult to be intimate with me (which to her credit she does try to be better at and that's why I said we've had some successes - or maybe she feels guilty lately).


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

acabado said:


> every single bolded pice her is divorce worthy.
> 
> Enough is enough.
> 
> ...


this!


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Even if you get this guy out of your lives, how could you live in a sexless marriage the rest of your days. Life is too short for that imo.


Like I said, we have been making some incremental progress in this area. It's nowhere near where I want and I do feel she forces herself much of the time, but at least she seems to be trying. But now this is just going to ruin all of that.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

File. You can always stop it if you need to later.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Like I said, we have been making some incremental progress in this area. It's nowhere near where I want and I do feel she forces herself much of the time, but at least she seems to be trying. But now this is just going to ruin all of that.


This is not your fault this was her decision and there are consequences for her actions. Don't you think she would have kicked you out if it was the other way around?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> What I meant was, why is it that she feels this is acceptable? Why does she treat me and our family with such open disrespect and think it's okay? These are the real issues, but I 100% agree that the first thing is a NC agreement.


Sorry man, but your marriage is unacceptable. You have learned how to settle, she is tired of doing that. Obviously. 

Regardless of what happens with this situation, there is a high likelihood that your marraige doesn't survive, what you described is just not healthy and wont sustain. 

This marriage is broken badly. There is a lot of work to be done if you want to build something that makes both of you truly happy and fulfilled. But, If you don't take strong action against the immediate threat, you will never get the opportunity to try.

You can't pu$$yfoot this, Get fired up and take action.

or don't... whatever...

It's your family. 

For now anyway.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

When cheating is involved, the game totally changes when trying to "repair" the marriage.

She is doing the MINIMAL she needs to in order to get you to back off so she can continue her inappropriate contact with OM.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Set up surveillance in your home, VAR in the LR, and if he is coming over, the BR....

Some cheap lipstick cameras would be great. You have to get enough evidence to bust it wide open, and expose to high heaven....

Read the newbie thread, it has all the technical info......

Your marriage is in great danger...

the woodchuck


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Ishe basically shut me off emotionally and sexually after the last child.
> 
> * Financially we can't even separate and I'm sure I'd be ruined,* but she seems to want to play with fire. Thoughts?


I think you've taken the words right out of her mouth. Tell me you're not dumb enough to think she's keeping this guy around for luck. I hope you don't regard this cat as your friend because personally I think he has it in for you.


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## AMRAP (Feb 21, 2013)

Get those VARs like today. I'd put one in almost every room except the kids' rooms. Don't forget the basement. If he's coming over at night while your away and the kids are asleep that's the most likely place it will happen. 

Start MC ASAP. This marriage obviously has issues. Tell your wife not to end the marriage by cheating on you. If she can't respect that then file for D. At that point you would see if she cared enough to talk you out of D. If she doesn't, you know it is over.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Which is the main point. I really don't care about this guy. It's her response that is the main issue.


Your reaction is extremely unmanly. Your wife no doubet sees it that way too. You said you ran the map plan. Was that from MMSLP? From your posts it doesn't seem like it.

For example, he comes to your house when you are not at home and you do not go nuclear? Twice and he can still walk?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What makes you think he is visiting your wife at your house when you are not home and he is not already banging her?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Need sanity check for 'just friends' situation*



Chaparral said:


> Your reaction is extremely unmanly. Your wife no doubet sees it that way too. You said you ran the map plan. Was that from MMSLP? From your posts it doesn't seem like it.
> 
> For example, he comes to your house when you are not at home and you do not go nuclear? Twice and he can still walk?


Chap is right. He's the aggressor. He's the alpha. He's not afraid of you spoiling his game. It's more than time to make your move to block him. And her! 

Where are your boundries, sir?

Why have you allowed her to create a sexless mariage?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

OP - What would you think of a friend in the same situation as you?

Married (but sexless), all the same red flags, disrespect...and the wife is having a male friend come over to the house when the husband is not home. A guy that is inappropriate and doesn't respect the husbands request to stay away. The wife obviously doesn't care what the husband says either. 

Would you tell him there is nothing going on or would you REALLY have your doubts and assume that the wife was cheating??


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> At first I just talk to her and tell her how *uncomfortable* this makes me and that it hurts me.


That word is for wimps. 



> I call bull**** basically and after a few more interactions I actually step in and tell him to knock it off. She was actually okay with that and he stopped contacting her AT ALL. What does that tell you about his intentions?


This should tell you what your wife is looking for in a man.

As a husband, you are not jealous and insecure. You have a legitimate concern about your family and your marriage, in both of which you have made huge investments. 

Get yourself mentally prepared to have a divorce; talk to a lawyer so that you can the get most out of this and remain legal and as others have said, gather more intelligence about what is going on.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Your wife is inviting him to your home when you are not there, Why you think its only an EA? I think its already a PA.

Your wife disrespects you repeatedly because you allows it. Ask her for NC and full truth about her A. If she deny any one of this hand over the D papers to her. 

Dont allow her to disrespect and cuckold you. Dont allow her to doormatise you. You are the head of the family, lead from front, not behind your wife.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

"Doormatise" -- Brilliant, Kallan! :smthumbup:


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

This is bad one. Almost makes me ill to read this story.

Notjustfriendsithink,

So sorry you are here. This is a "classic" story told here all of the time. LISTEN TO THE PREVIOUS POSTS!!!

Take care of yourself too. The writing is on the wall as far as your wife having an affair.

I would give you advice but all of it has been said.

Sorry you married a bad woman.

Bless your soul. Just think fast, and move quietly. Protect yourself.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The no sex was a shyt test and you failed. Your sex rank went into the tank after that along with her respect for you. You have to man up and get some of it back.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP

DONT do the out of house separation thing. We have seen far far too many times where she uses it to "try on" the new man while hubby stays home as plan B.

I gave you the tech info. Weekends are prime cheating times. I cant go to best buy for you. Just be prepared for another level of "oh sh!t"

So many similarities. Not into you. check
other man check
technical guy check
etc


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

I am going to point out somethings. They never stopped contacting each other. We know this because you don't cut ties with someone and then out of the blue invite them over. 
Also I understand you are computer savvy I am too however it is easy to get complacent. I did since I trusted my wife I never looked and I found out about me wife's EA headed down the road towards my personal hell by chance rather than by skill. 
You need to consider that your wife may have been talking to him behind your back using low tech methods like voice to voice phone calls. I would even say there is a possibility that this may have moved to a PA. You need to look at phone records and put a var in he car. This to me seems like the situation has progressed quite far beyond what you know. If you need help PM me with questions and I will get back to you ASAP.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

badbane said:


> I am going to point out somethings. They never stopped contacting each other. We know this because you don't cut ties with someone and then out of the blue invite them over.
> Also I understand you are computer savvy I am too however it is easy to get complacent. I did since I trusted my wife I never looked and I found out about me wife's EA headed down the road towards my personal hell by chance rather than by skill.
> You need to consider that your wife may have been talking to him behind your back using low tech methods like voice to voice phone calls. I would even say there is a possibility that this may have moved to a PA. You need to look at phone records and put a var in he car. This to me seems like the situation has progressed quite far beyond what you know. If you need help PM me with questions and I will get back to you ASAP.


Look for a burner phone also.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> What makes you think he is visiting your wife at your house when you are not home and he is not already banging her?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

What you see before you is the tip of the iceberg most likely. It wasn't the tip that sank the Titanic. It was what is underneath.

Your wife may or may not be a total cheating ho... (You don't know the truth and don't give her the benefit of the doubt! Be honest and be a man about it! I am not saying she is but I am not saying she isn't)

She is doing something that is absolutely wrong! She knows it! Now call her on it! Take her to task if you want to save your marriage or be subtle and get information on her infidelity if you think that will help... It doesn't help in court in most places.

The other man is a PoS and is or is trying to be humping your wife in your bed while you are on travel working to provide for her... I really do hate to be so blunt but if that thought doesn't piss you off I don't know what will.

Put a keylogger on her phone. Separate your finances. Prepare yourself for D and betrayal. If she is cheating she is keeping that PoS around as her escape from the miserable life that YOU gave her (Blameshifting)

It's not a time to be nice and work on your marriage. It is time to be strong and show her you are the one she needs to be with or she can get out. Make sure she gets a job and you take care of the kids or you WILL be financially ruined! Her time as SAHM who can cuckold you should be over. She needs something to keep her busy! Not some guy... She is bored and lonely... (blameshifting)

I went through this exactly. 

If she is deleting her texts to him, she is [email protected]$king him or she will be.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Since you are not divorced or in legal separation, it is not illegal to protect yourself as in moving all of your money into your own account and doling out her money as needed... groceries...

It's only half when the legalities begin.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> Since you are not divorced or in legal separation, it is not illegal to protect yourself as in moving all of your money into your own account and doling out her money as needed... groceries...
> 
> It's only half when the legalities begin.


Do this asap.:iagree:


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

As long as you continue to do nothing, you are accepting/enabling the affair to continue and progress. 

I don't care how low drive your wife is. She is inviting a man she knows is interested in her sexually into your home when you are not there and doing so with complete disregard to your expressed wishes. You do not have her respect at all. She has no respect for your marriage either. She values him more than you. 

Even if she is low drive with you. That does not mean that she is with him. I will be stunned if this is not Physical. 

Look for a burner phone. Not that she neds one since he visitis while you are away. 

Perhaps a var or motion activated camera. 

At the very least lay down the law and ask her to take a polygraph. Judge her reaction and be prepared for a confession.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Just read your thread.........this is so familiar, and I wish I had this type of support available to me years ago, will explain briefly as to not steal your thread.

My wife was talking to this guy on the internet, all innocent at first. His motives were not so innocent. She decided to go on a vacation to visit a girl friend, do something on her own. Of course I supported her on this. But she had been chatting to this guy, who she ended up visiting and having an affair.
I confronted her before she left ansd asked her not too cheat, but she did anyway. Total disregard for me, her family, and yes I realize now, how week I was to deal with this. She walked all over me, and I let her. Never realized this until a few months back, and it saddens me, that I did nothing.

Upon her return, after disclosure it was swept under the rug, and as she described, its over, and I dont want to talk about it!
Of course I was completely destraught over the whole issue and did not know which way was up. I knew I loved my wife, and was confused.
Fast forward to now, 12 years later, I have finally brought it up in marriage councelling, and its not good.

I wish I would have dealt with this better back then, but did not know where to turn or where to go. So I am dealing with this now, that my kids are much older.

Why am I telling you this..................you are going to get cheated on, I knew there was a possibility it would happen to me, but I was in denial..............
Do what the posters are telling you, its hard to face, but she is going to hurt you.
Your gut does not lie!!!

Sad situation to be in.

Craig


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How would she feel if the roles were reversed and you invited a single woman to come over to your house and spend time with you while she was at work? This is so unacceptable and humiliating and disrespectful to you. She does this because you allow her to do it.

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Her actions show she does not give a dam how you feel and she does not care how she totally disrespects you as a man and a spouse. IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

A quick couple of questions NJFIT. 

* If she's banging this guy do you want to know it?

* If she is what are you going to do about it?

It's going to be a real kick in the azz to know somebody else is banging her while she has cut you off for lack of interest. Just something to think about.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Give her an ultimatum. Tell her you are not interested in sharing her, and if she doesn't respect that, you're gone. 

Don't be emotional. Be cold and indifferent. Let this little fvck take care of her if he thinks she's such a princess.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP,
aside from the situation with this guy, did I read you correctly that you have struggled with physical intimacy AND emotional intimacy with your wife for your entire marriage? The boundary issues your wife has (if that's all they are so far) sound like a symptom of a bigger problem in your marriage, or a bigger problem in her. other than this problem are there other issues with her? does she rant a lot - blow up a lot, verbal abuser, go crazy on shopping, have general lack of empathy or other things?? or is she pretty solid in general, just not a great wife? does she have some good (female) friends?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> What I meant was, why is it that she feels this is acceptable? Why does she treat me and our family with such open disrespect and think it's okay?


 People that file for divorce to end their marriage but continue to share a home for practical reasons (such as children) follow a common pattern. Since they are single rather than married, the relationship becomes sexless, non-sexual intimacy is avoided, they no longer owe transparency to each other, secrecy from each other is acceptable, and the high level of honesty expected in a marriage goes away. In practice your wife did just this, and in effect divorced you and became single without your knowledge. Viewed from this perspective, her treatment of you now makes perfect sense. If you review this issue of the other man (OM) from the point of view of a single person rather than a married person, her insistence that she is doing nothing wrong is very logical. She is dating this OM and as a single person sees nothing wrong with this.



notjustfriendsithink said:


> These are the real issues, but I 100% agree that the first thing is a NC agreement.


 Full no contact (NC) with complete transpancy without complaint, that includes passwords, and no deleting of anything, must be demanded right now.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Hey notjust,

I must say that your spouse being uncaring about your feelings on this matter is a bad sign!
It is a pattern that I have seen in this sort of thing, looking for situations like my own.
You and your feelings should come first if she values your marriage.


"Not just friends" by Glass is available on audio book...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> She acknowledges that he steps over the line and is inappropriate, but brushes it off because she doesn't feel that way.
> 
> she has invited him over and started contact with him again. she's not naive as to his intentions. So far she's not really reciprocated. She's also deleting their messages.
> 
> ...


This doesn't sound too bad at first glance only because you have not seen your wife reciprocate.

When I was single and dating over 20 years ago, women rarely openly made the first move. A smile, laughing at my jokes, agreeing with me - these girls knew I was interested in them and this is how they let me know to proceed. I put my arm around them, they didn't say "no." This basically is what your wife is doing. 

By NOT saying "NO!", she is saying "yes."

What message is she sending to this guy? "My husband told you to get lost, but I'm contacting you again anyway (because I don't care what my husband thinks). The message from your wife to this guy is: "YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN MY HUSBAND."

I know that you see this. As a matter of fact, you have a very, very good handle on the situation, better than most posters who come here in your situation.

One thing you don't seem to have as good a handle on, though, is this: You put too much emphasis on your wife's words. Cheaters are liars. Your wife has crossed over into cheater territory, whether or no she actually has cheated. THE SINGLE MOST DEFINITIVE TRAIT OF THE CHEATERS YOU WILL READ ABOUT ON THIS FORUM IS THAT *THEY DELETE ALL OF THEIR MESSAGES WITH THE AFFAIR PARTNER.* Because your wife has started to do this, it shows that she has crossed over.

Cheating, at its basic core, is lying, usually by omission, or lies to cover up. Your wife is already there.

This means, when it comes to the other man, DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD YOUR WIFE SAYS. Believe only her actions.

She is telling you that it is OK because she is not reciprocating. She is telling you that she has no interest in this guy. The truth is that she has convinced herself that she is in love with this guy. You are lucky that by her nature your wife is unemotional and withdrawn, otherwise she would be giving this guy more overt encouragement. You also are lucky that this guy seems like a pretty big loser and apparently is too timid to really push his agenda. If he did, I think your wife would go for it big time.

Your wife knows that you are computer savvy, and she is deleting messages, so you don't really know if they have made arrangements to communicate by burner phone, regular phone, at the library computer, etc., where the messages are a lot racier. Not likely, but a possibility. Your wife is headed there, probably isn't quite there yet.

If they do meet, I think your wife will find an excuse for "something" to "just happen."

My advice is to confront your wife and put your foot down. It seems that your wife is not very afraid of losing you. Sometimes, unfortunately it's human nature, we only really realize what we have when we have to face losing it. Your wife is taking you for granted. You pursue her so much and get so little in return, and you put up with all of her bvllsh1t. She manipulates you through agreeing then doing the opposite, then if you confront she backs you down by getting angry. Those are her tools. Don't back down this time. Don't let words appease you. Demand actions.

Get her passwords off her. Get her to agree to stop deleting. Get her to block other man on everything she can. Get her to handwrite the no contact letter.

Do not threaten divorce, but ask her if she ever thought about it and what her life would be like without you.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.


No sex, single guy flaunting it in my face and obvious flirting? He goes or I go, no middle ground at all, no compromise.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

As a married woman I'm not comfortable returning phone calls/text from our married male neighbor...and we are good friends with them (our kids play etc) I would never in a million years feel comfortable inviting him in my home when my spouse isn't there. I don't want anything to look sketchy or disrespect for either of our spouses. 

The fact is your wife has checked out long ago both physically and emotionally. 

I've spent years hearing my circle of female friends complain about having to "put out" for their husbands and there is always a link between what they don't like about their men/marriage outside of the bedrooms = they don't want to have sex w them. 

I don't know many relationships that started where the sex was dead during courting and you thought...."hot damn I gotta marry that person". Points to the obvious that the sex derailed because of the relationship and not the other way around. 

Let me ask you this....if you always felt like she wasn't that in to you....why did you sell yourself short and marry a woman who treated you that way?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Why don't you just call the guy and tell him man to man that you never want him to talk to your wife again..............

the woodchuck


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## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

You already know the answer. 
The correct answer is whatever your gut is telling you.

If you do ask her to end all contact, the way she reacts will tell you what you need to know on where your marriage stands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Can I just get some perspective on this part:
> 
> He's a single guy and seems lonely. He calls her things like baby and honey every time they talk. He has to work in how amazing she is in every single interaction.
> 
> Take away the rest of what I wrote, it is 100% appropriate for me to say that she cuts contact with this guy right? These are not appropriate interactions for a married woman and a single man, even if I thought she did not feel the same way correct?


It's wrong on both of their parts but especially hers.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> No he does nothing in front of me. He avoids me. He tries to come over when I am at work or away on business SUPPORTING MY FAMILY.


I can't believe he has the balls to even come up in another man's house! And for your wife to disrespect you like that!! It's like she knows you won't do anything about it. I would never invite a man into my home, single or married, unless my husband was home.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> What I meant was, why is it that she feels this is acceptable? Why does she treat me and our family with such open disrespect and think it's okay? These are the real issues, but I 100% agree that the first thing is a NC agreement.


Please don't take this the wrong way but my guess is because you taught her it was acceptable to treat you this way.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Hey notjust,
If you like you can take a look at my threads,
"old flame or just friends EA"
I also have a thread called "exs and old flames as OSF's" in general 
And I believe there are some other threads on OSF's in TAM. I will go look and see if I can find anything useful for you.
My thread in CWI Started out with me doubting whether or not what I was asking for was reasonable or not.
I know how crazy knowing that something is not right and having your spouse not agree with you can make you feel.

The fact that the guy is local in your situation is even more so not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Reading this thread really pissed my off. How dare she have this guy in your house when you aren't there. The deleting of messages, the baby/honey talk...I would start dealing with this NOW. Don't wait another day.

You wife is letting this man disrespect your marriage, which shows how little she cares foir it right now. Time for her to wake up...what do they call it, shock and awe? Ya, something like that.

Unbelieveable.


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## notjustfriendsithink (Jul 19, 2013)

darklilly23 said:


> Hey notjust,
> If you like you can take a look at my threads,
> "old flame or just friends EA"
> I also have a thread called "exs and old flames as OSF's" in general
> ...


I have read your thread actually when I was lurking here. It was quite helpful. My nightmare basically is that I confront her with this and she is dismissive about it. I mean, I do expect her first reaction to be angry and dismissive and to try and shift the blame. I know this is her go to response so I won't take that personally. I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage. And if she gets that point and is still more angry than concerned, then I'll have the answer that I don't want. I'm prepared to deal with it if I have to, but I really am hoping that there is a caring woman in there somewhere that actually loves me. I hope she realizes that all I really want is for her to desire me and want me and respect me. I'm not feeling any of that right now. I'm feeling placated to to keep me minimally invested and I can't continue on that path. I know that being a doormat though won't get her to change.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> Anyway, I know this is a biased place to ask for advice on this, but I'm really wondering if I'm just being insecure. Financially we can't even separate and I'm sure I'd be ruined, but she seems to want to play with fire. Thoughts?


My thoughts are that you marriage is in trouble.
This is the best place you can come to for help in a situation like yours.
Never mind the naysayers.
I suggest that you stop, take a good look at yourself in the mirror , and you determine how much is enough from her.
You need to determine if she's worth all this headache, and how much longer will you tolerate her indiscretions.
She does not respect you and there is nothing you can do to get her eyes off this guy. She's already heading in the wrong direction, albeit, full speed.
There are some books you might be interested in reading.
Take care of _your_ children and most of all, take care of yourself.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I have read your thread actually when I was lurking here. It was quite helpful. My nightmare basically is that I confront her with this and she is dismissive about it. I mean, I do expect her first reaction to be angry and dismissive and to try and shift the blame. I know this is her go to response so I won't take that personally. I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage. And if she gets that point and is still more angry than concerned, then I'll have the answer that I don't want. I'm prepared to deal with it if I have to, but I really am hoping that there is a caring woman in there somewhere that actually loves me. I hope she realizes that all I really want is for her to desire me and want me and respect me. I'm not feeling any of that right now. I'm feeling placated to to keep me minimally invested and I can't continue on that path. I know that being a doormat though won't get her to change.


What exactly are you going to do about this? Wait? Wait for what?


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Here is another one that I will preface with, "if this is real" .....

your wife wants out but does not have the ballz to do it and apparently you're too dense to realize it!


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Plan your strategy well, you only get one shot at this.
Does she email or text this guy? Can you instal keyloger on phone or pc she uses?
Have you thought about putting a VAR in car/house?
All things I wish I would have done. 
You might want to go ahead and hook yourself up with a IC just to be ahead of the game.
It could not hurt to know you have good emotional back up.

Get more advice then mine on any of the things I mentioned, since I did not actually do the whole var keyloger thing.

My stbxh acted in the same I don't give a [email protected], I am going to do it anyway way.
He would say "it does not matter what OWs intentions are it only matters that you trust me."

OK yeah noooo....

Take out the words "trusts me my intentions are good" and you are left with with "what I want to do".
"I want to play with fire and risk my marriage and my family because its fun"

My therapist said it like a alcoholic, really it is a addiction.
They say "oh no trust me I can handle there drinks"
But every one around them knows the road they are on is a bad one and they are being careless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

I'd say since he's come over to your house they have had sex numerous times already. Does he come when you're home? They are disrespecting you right under your nose.

I think your only option is to give her an ultimatum. Either you, marriage and give OM a boot or him, divorce and give your wife a boot.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd say before you confront you first need to know just what you are confronting.

The VARs are a absolute must , you need to hear them together when you aren't there.

I'd even suggest a CAM if you can successfully hide it, but cams are far more easy to spot so be very careful.


But do not confront until you actually know what you are dealing with.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I have read your thread actually when I was lurking here. It was quite helpful. My nightmare basically is that I confront her with this and she is dismissive about it. I mean, I do expect her first reaction to be angry and dismissive and to try and shift the blame. I know this is her go to response so I won't take that personally. I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage.


ON THE VERGE?!

notjust, you are being WAY TOO PASSIVE about this. What does a woman want? A STRONG man. Why do you think she's going after this dude? Because he TAKES WHAT HE WANTS. And here you are, wringing your hands and saying 'oh, no, you are almost making me worry about our relationship, whatever will I do?' Which one do YOU think is more attractive?

So what if she's dismissive? SHE IS CHEATING! You should be MAD AS HELL at her. And let her KNOW that.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

You need to make it clear to her that you can be without her if she thinks the OM is more important than you and that she is replaceable.

She should get female friends. Men are ALWAYS after one thing in the end - sex. The OM is no different - he acts as a "friend" until he gets laid. He would not befriend your wife if he didn't want sex.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I do expect her first reaction to be angry and dismissive and to try and shift the blame. I know this is her go to response so I won't take that personally. I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage.


 This type of thinking is what helped get you here. You are a nice guy that sincerely cares about your wife, but your wife sees this as doormat speak. Doormat speak is when you worry about what she will do more than you demand her to worry about what you will do. Doormat speak is when you make excuses for her bad responses, and tell yourself not to take it personally because that is just the way she is, when you should in fact take it personally and get angry. You acknowledge that being a doormat will not work, so stop thinking like one.

There are two paths that you can take at this time. You can wait to gather evidence, or you can confront now. Gathering evidence is to motivate you to act and not back down, as she already knows what she is doing. If you wait to gather evidence, you may be allowing the relationship to progress to the point of no return. If you confront before you are willing to act and not back down, then you will only confirm you doormat status to her and it will make matters worse.

If it were me I would implement evidence gathering to see what she does after I confront, and confront today. I say this because there is still a good chance that it may not have gone physical but it is heading there. It looks to be already an emotional affair (EA). For me a physical affair (PA) plus (EA) would be much harder to get over than just an EA. But that is me. I know that based on what you already know, I would be willing to end the marriage if she did not break off all contact today. She is in effect dating this other man (OM), it just may not have gone physical yet is all. She is doing this against your stated wishes and the OM knows this. This OM is not your friend and is not a friend of the marraige, and thus having him in her life as just her friend is enough for me to act. Having him over to your home when you are not there, makes it even more over the top for me. The disrespect that she and the OM is showing you would be too much for me to take. But that is me. If you are not willing to file for divorce if she does not agree to full no contact (NC) which includes full transparency to enforce the NC, then gather evidence until you are ready to act.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

TRy said:


> This type of thinking is what helped get you here. *You are a nice guy that sincerely cares about your wife, but your wife sees this as doormat speak. *


:iagree:

My point^^^exactly.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What we have here is another guy too afraid to pull the trigger because of his kids. Some guys think that if they divorce they'll never see their kids. Bull! Fathers have rights and a lot of dads think that it's not enough but the fact of the matter is, it's not quantity, it's quality time. I know this from being married twice and two kids with two wives. Some women use the kids as a weapon like my first wife did but none the less, I still had my visitation. My second was split custody but she lived with her Mom but I saw her as much as I wanted so stop worrying about that.

Second thing. Your getting good solid advice here and it seems to me that your not listening. YOU CANNOT LET THIS MAN IN YOUR HOME!! There comes a point in time when sometimes you have to insert a foot into some ones ass (figure of speech) and that foot should be aimed at your wife. The way she is treating you is unacceptable and disrespectful. She's throwing you "good boy" sex just to shut you up and not make waves. Not good. That is no way for you to be treated. If that's the way she wants to be, then you should play hard ball and let her know that if you want the guy, pack your stuff and go with him but if you think you can leave and find out later that he wanted you for amusement in bed, then come back, think again. Once you go, stay gone and get a lawyer because I'll have one.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

6301 said:


> What we have here is another guy too afraid to pull the trigger because of his kids.


I think a lot of guys use the kids as an excuse not to leave. This day and age with the number of divorces anybody with walking around sense knows better than believe they'll never see the kids. This old boy is hoping this episode with his wife will just dissipate like a thunderstorm in August.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

ThePeonix is correct with the statement of using kids as an excuse.
Not sure if it was an excuse for me, but it was a big factor for me 12 years ago.
Now I am dealing with this, 12 years later. Stuffed it away, but it never goes away.
I wish they had venues for this 12 years ago, to help me find my way.
Now I am struggling with this, which should have been done years ago. I am not an expert by no means. Have been on this site for about a week, and my feelings and thoughts have been validated 100%. It's like the responses, and other stories, that others are writing are my life story from the past 12 years, fricken scary in fact.

Listen to these posters.............they are trying to help, and if it seems they are negative, well they are not.........they are being Frank with you.

Craig


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> She never really wanted me sexually. It always felt out of duty...She just never really gave herself to me intimately or emotionally and I've never been able to figure out why because there are not other issues that would cause this, other than her being generally LL or just never finding me attractive.


Sorry. I didn't make it past here and probably won't read on. I'm sure all of the smart people that post after this figured out that your wife doesn't love you. Possibly has never loved you and never will. This guy is not your problem. You have a wife that "settled". Get used to it or leave her. She will never love you again, if she ever did.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I was wrong. It's all still "put your foot down" and "spy". Go ahead and prolong this agony. I understand the urge. Hard to believe that the woman who was your sole mate never loved you. You'll figure it out eventually. 

Never got horny for you but this guy sure gets her juices flowing. Does that tell you anything? You really want to caveman your woman back into a submissive marriage? It'll all be cold as ice until the next exciting guy comes along.

In the meantime, good luck to you. You are in for a ride that WILL NOT end well.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage.


This would be called "false hope" since it ain't going to happen. 

Why?

Because she ALREADY knows this but doesn't care. If she cared you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Your pain and the damage to your marriage is very low on her priority list, hell she might actually want you to D her (some people start exit affairs so the BS will leave because they are too much of a coward to leave themselves).

If you want a response in your favor, you need to drop the hammer hard on her. "Nice" behavior is enabling behavior when it comes to affairs. Playing hardball (tough love) is the only way to get control back. Don't try to negotiate with her and make her feel guilty because that won't work. She has already justified her actions in her head and feels entitled to what she is doing. That's how cheaters think and one reason you can't talk them out of an affair.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

notjustfriendsithink said:


> I have read your thread actually when I was lurking here. It was quite helpful. My nightmare basically is that I confront her with this and she is dismissive about it. I mean, I do expect her first reaction to be angry and dismissive and to try and shift the blame. I know this is her go to response so I won't take that personally. I am hoping though that I can get through to her that I'm actually hurting here and she is on the verge of irreparably damaging our marriage. And if she gets that point and is still more angry than concerned, then I'll have the answer that I don't want. I'm prepared to deal with it if I have to, but I really am hoping that there is a caring woman in there somewhere that actually loves me. I hope she realizes that all I really want is for her to desire me and want me and respect me. I'm not feeling any of that right now. I'm feeling placated to to keep me minimally invested and I can't continue on that path. I know that being a doormat though won't get her to change.


Dude, my wife had a single male friend that called her Baby when they emailed each other. Yeah, that guy is now banished from her existence because it moved directly into an emotional affair.

Every single sign is there that your wife has checked out. You are the only one left in the hotel room.

The ONLY way you can save this is to scare the living crap out of her. Tell her that given the no sex, the hidden texts, the insistence on seeing this guy, etc, that you assume she is no longer interested in being married to you. And that you have discussed your options with an attorney (even if you haven't) regarding child custody, etc, given the situation.

She'll either say, "wait, no, that's not what I want", which will open the door.

Or she'll just shrug and say, "well, I guess it's done then", which will tell you she's been waiting to exit this marriage.

Either way, you'll know, and can move forward.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Not just.

You need to take some time for yourself by either taking a walk or a ride and try to communicate with the sleeping giant that we all have in us and let him do your talking. Your wife is telling you in her own code that "It doesn't matter what you think or how you feel. I don't care and I will do what I want to do, when I want to do it and how I want to do it and if it hurts you, well too bad. I'm about me and you don't count and I know I can get away with it because your lack of action supports my theory on you". 

If that isn't bad enough, she, no doubt has told this OM what she feels and he has no fear of you and in his own way, he's repeating word for word what she's telling you. That's what your situation is. Is this the life you want? To be humiliated, degraded and disrespected because that's what's happening until you decide to bring out the big stick and start dishing out some well deserved lumps on two peoples collective butt's.....................then go get a lawyer. They wield big sticks too.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Every single sign is there that your wife has checked out. You are the only one left in the *hotel room*.


That would be the "Heartbreak Hotel". Famous in song and dance.

I know it well.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> That would be the "Heartbreak Hotel". Famous in song and dance.
> 
> I know it well.


Or maybe Blue hotel.


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