# Denial about an EA...



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

So backstory: My husband sort of initiated the friendship between me and this chick I will just refer to as A. A and I started to become friends, mostly because I was home from a surgery and she would come over for coffee, walk with me while I did my walking PT. Etc. I'm young mid 30s but the surgery was necessary. 

So once I returned to work and DH's temp job was over she started to talk on the phone with him occassionally. We were all part of a mutual club for kids and leadership of said club, so naturally he told me their discussions revolved around that. I came home one day at lunch and she was here, I was pissed went off on my husband and told him to respect me and tell me when she was going to be here. After that there were 3 other occasions on which she had been here that I found out about, and he hadn't told me. This pissed me off even more, and I mentioned to him repeatedly he always had an excuse, we are just friends, you are paraniod (I do have abandonment issues from childhood). etc. 

Well eventually even my kids were telling me strange things they observed. I confronted him, they had a reason. 

So it seemed to have stopped, but my husband returned to work again. 

Enter right when I cut her off a year ago from friendship with me, I got closer to another friend, now this friend is suddenly friends with her and let it slip to me and my mother that she confronted her about her relationship with my husband and A admitted that they had "emotional connection" and that once she realized it, she pulled back. Her husband is frequently deployed and I would notice paterns, she would disappear when her husband was home, and reappear literally the day he left. 

Both still deny anything happened, I have always doubted that. 

The disrespect and entirety of it all has caused me to put up some walls again against DH. I only a week or two ago found out the EA part was admitted by her. (At the same time I feel betrayed by my close friend who is now friendly with her- more than casual, but hanging out and stuff too). I intend to address my friend separately. 

My question is how do I move on from this, before it was just a thought, now it is reality, my husband doesn't believe EAs exist, although he did admit his friendship with her was wrong, but that I was unavailable and he was bored staying home. I get that.... and I had forgiven him and let it go. Despite not knowing, now I know that A admitted something to my other friend and cannot help wonder if there was more to it. 

Do I just chalk it up to what it was before and not say anything or does my husband have to admit that an emotional affair is real?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Do I just chalk it up to what it was before and not say anything or does my husband have to admit that an emotional affair is real?


The true goal of any relationship is to live in the moment, without preoccupations with the past. You don't have to confront anyone or anything but if it bothers you, you MUST confront it internally.

Analyze every aspect of the EA. This entails considering the perceptions and feelings of all 3 individuals. No person thinks the way you do, so it will get you nowhere by assuming or requiring they do. In addition to this, write down why the EA was wrong. Then explain why you cannot be happy. To forgive requires getting over it. You have to confront not only the idea of the EA but how it impacted you when you found out.

For you to move on, you need to be confident that this will not happen again. EA's don't happen in healthy relationships. Part of the aforementioned analysis will help to inform you as to why he felt the way he did and what caused the urge/lack of control/faith.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Relationship Teacher said:


> The true goal of any relationship is to live in the moment, without preoccupations with the past. You don't have to confront anyone or anything but if it bothers you, you MUST confront it internally.
> 
> Analyze every aspect of the EA. This entails considering the perceptions and feelings of all 3 individuals. No person thinks the way you do, so it will get you nowhere by assuming or requiring they do. In addition to this, write down why the EA was wrong. Then explain why you cannot be happy. To forgive requires getting over it. You have to confront not only the idea of the EA but how it impacted you when you found out.
> 
> For you to move on, you need to be confident that this will not happen again. EA's don't happen in healthy relationships. Part of the aforementioned analysis will help to inform you as to why he felt the way he did and what caused the urge/lack of control/faith.


Thank you. I will do this. You are correct they don't happen in healthy (happy) relationships.... and my husband was soo not happy. I can see why he sought her friendship, and emotional support/connection as long as it didn't go beyond that. But I will try what you said and write it all out. It definitely deeply bothered me, especially for the female to admit it crossed a line for her emotionally..... that is what bothers me, makes me wonder too again if it went further and she wasn't comfortable to admit that to her new friend (my best friend).


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Thank you. I will do this. You are correct they don't happen in healthy (happy) relationships.... and my husband was soo not happy. I can see why he sought her friendship, and emotional support/connection as long as it didn't go beyond that. But I will try what you said and write it all out. It definitely deeply bothered me, especially for the female to admit it crossed a line for her emotionally..... that is what bothers me, makes me wonder too again if it went further and she wasn't comfortable to admit that to her new friend (my best friend).


We constantly lie to ourselves and forgive far too early. It has to be confronted as if it were an infection. The symptoms might have went away due to morphine, but the pain will come back until it is healed.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I feel for you. I suspected my H had at least an EA with a coworker maybe more. He will not admit it. Nor does he acknowledge that EA's are even a thing. Same situation here. HE was not happy and our marriage was not in a good place. I can see why he would have sought the admiration and attention of someone else (no excuse for it though - he should have asked me to go to counselling or talked to me about how bad it had gotten for him)

After 15 months of MC he has not admitted a thing unless I have had proof of his contact with her.(but not proof of an A)
It haunts me everyday. Sometimes I feel like I can move forward without him coming clean and sometimes I think I will go crazy knowing and not knowing to what extent things went. 

He certainly felt guilty about his connection with her since he hid it and lied about it.

I am reading a book now called "I love you but I don't trust you". I hope it has some answers to this emotional pile of s#it that seems to be my life right now.

Good luck. I will be watching for your updates and wishing you well.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

nursejackie said:


> It haunts me everyday. Sometimes I feel like I can move forward without him coming clean and sometimes I think I will go crazy knowing and not knowing to what extent things went.



I think that the reason it haunts you is because you and your hubby have a different interpretation of what your marital boundaries are. So going forward you have no sense of what he may think is ok in the future.





livelaughlovenow said:


> The disrespect and entirety of it all has caused me to put up some walls again against DH....
> 
> 
> My question is how do I move on from this, before it was just a thought, now it is reality, my husband doesn't believe EAs exist, although he did admit his friendship with her was wrong,....
> ...



I think for both of these posters, even if you don't know what happened in the past you can sure as heck lay down some groundwork of communication for the future. Marriage is about two people and your needs to feel emotionally protected are valid and worth talking about. Even if your hubbies don't 'believe in EA's'

For the OP your hubby doesn't have to admit that an EA is real but he better admit and affirm that your feelings are real!
So like another poster suggested sit down and figure out what is real to you.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

First of all you should not let this behind you and move on. Talk with him and let him see your side of this. 

He even blamed you for childish behaviour or something like that when you confronted him !!!

Your marriage have really bad boundaries. Ask him what he would do if it was a male friend with you,alone at the house ? I know I would be pissed if this happend to me.

Your husband definitely had EA with your ex-friend. He lied to you about meetings and even your children saw some bad things. Ex-friend admited having feelings for him and I belive your husband have them too.

This is what happend : your ex-friend was there for both of you after your surgery.She even find it good to spend her time with you because her own husband was away from home. 

Then your husband lost a job and she is now spendign time only with him,to cheer him up,BEHIND YOUR BACK which is already bad.

Talk with your husband and your boundaries. I hope this ex-friend is out of your life with no contact.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

nursejackie said:


> I feel for you. I suspected my H had at least an EA with a coworker maybe more. He will not admit it. Nor does he acknowledge that EA's are even a thing. Same situation here. HE was not happy and our marriage was not in a good place. I can see why he would have sought the admiration and attention of someone else (no excuse for it though - he should have asked me to go to counselling or talked to me about how bad it had gotten for him)
> 
> After 15 months of MC he has not admitted a thing unless I have had proof of his contact with her.(but not proof of an A)
> It haunts me everyday. Sometimes I feel like I can move forward without him coming clean and sometimes I think I will go crazy knowing and not knowing to what extent things went.
> ...


If he felt it necessary to lie to you, his spouse, about the relationship, then it was, undoubtedly, an EA and inappropriate. And he knew that.

Incidentally, what concerns did your children raise with you about them?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP,

Your husband might be in denial about the EA being an AFFAIR if it never became physical. What you described is classic EA. I suspect your husband did not seek out the EA but craved and “loved” the attention that he received and thus the emotional connection between him and A grew. The secrecy of their interactions only fueled his feelings. Read the book called Not Just Friends. Unfortunately I have a copy due to EA situation in my marriage. I have not finished it yet, but the book is highly recommended at TAM.

Not to make your worry more, but are you really sure the EA really ended? Are they still communicating by text? Check your phone records to see if there was a spike in texting that continues through now. If your husband has not let go, then the EA not be over, even if the two stop communicating. 

You need to discover what lead to the EA. To start the healing, your husband at least needs to admit to himself that he had an EA and crossed the marriage boundaries. Getting him to admit that to you may be difficult. I would drop all mention of the words “EA” or “affair”. If you can get him to acknowledge to you or himself that he liked the attention, or liked A’s company, you are basically getting the admission you seek. He must though acknowledge that he exceeded the marriage boundaries AS YOU DEFINE THEM and he needs to accept that the boundaries you define must apply to him. 

If I read this right, your close friend did tell you about the EA. Your friend is in a hard place, and you basically want her to choose between you or A. 

If this EA ended as you described, you might consider yourself “lucky”. It could have ended far worse, not that that is any comfort to you at this point. You have a difficult journey ahead but sounds like you are already taking some of the right steps.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Blue- excellent advice and something I hadn't considered till recently. Our MC mentioned that when she counsels couples in affairs she will ask the WS what they felt like when they were with the AP. If they are honest and describe how it made them feel it will give clues as to what needs were missing at the time. Did they feel admired, sexy, appreciated, listened to, safe? This in no way excuses the A-just gives a window into understanding what went on in the Waywards mind.

I would expect my H to say he felt understood because they share common job interests, admired as she was always pumping him up, needed since she kept asking for favours, and cared for through her booking his conferences, doing his paperwork, helping him on the computer and baking for him. I have not asked him. I am not sure I want to hear it from his mouth and I'm not sure if I would believe him anyways.

It makes sense that they may be much more willing to share how they felt rather than admit to an EA. That may be admission enough for you.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> OP,
> 
> Your husband might be in denial about the EA being an AFFAIR if it never became physical. What you described is classic EA. I suspect your husband did not seek out the EA but craved and “loved” the attention that he received and thus the emotional connection between him and A grew. The secrecy of their interactions only fueled his feelings. Read the book called Not Just Friends. Unfortunately I have a copy due to EA situation in my marriage. I have not finished it yet, but the book is highly recommended at TAM.
> 
> ...


He did eventually acknowledge my feelings in a way were justified, and that he had contributed to the distance in our relationship that now exists as a result. I did speak with my friend tonight and it was very clear that she intends on remaining friends with the OW... I told her I cannot be around her and now have to redo boundry lines with her. I have already relaid them with DH....

I think if DH had to describe how he felt during this time he would say lonely (he was a stay at home dad for a while) admired because she looked up to him in this club thing, they shared interests, etc. I still do not know and sometimes wonder if it went physical, especially for her to open up so quickly to a new friend - but she never admitted that to me- makes me feel like it is only a partial admission. Kinda like a kid says they only took one cookie (when they really took 3) gets the guilt out without admitting the truth. 

Either way I am currently reading Fight For Your Marriage to try some of the techniques in that book moving forward and trying like hell to save my marriage as I know what it would do to our kids. Especially since we don't fight, and we have one very emotionally sensitive child. 

Sigh.... this is all so frustrating. I did ask my friend some questions this evening and she basically said she thought she had already told me. (She has had a lot going on in her own life). But then I wonder if that was just an excuse.... who knows really. It does bother me she intends to remain friends. 

And I wish I could honestly say that I know the EA is over, but I do not. They do still occassionaly talk due to kid activities, but he also is getting ready to be on a new shift, making him home again during the day... I plan on stopping in at odd times (that is how I found them here before) each time though they were in the man cave (garage) smoking. Although once they both had the deer in the headlights look. 

Let me add to this that I have a mind that runs away with itself sometimes, and so I try not to read into things. My husband is a flirt, but says he doesn't flirt and when I was having my last convo with OW, she laughed when I said he told me he doesn't flirt. (she was watching my kids that day as my friend had a late doc apt and their bus stop is right out front of their house). I have since started having my kids just come straight home after school. 

I will be keeping watch, trying my part to make my marriage better, and will keep you all updated. It sucks that I am even back on this site. Marriage takes work, but my husband just thinks everything should magically fall into place and there should be no need to constantly work on things. 

One more thing, he knows I am upset about P being friends with A, and he knows why I don't like A, but I have yet to tell him what A said to my friend (P). He told me that he thinks that P just likes people who are useful to them, and since A doesn't work right now she is useful to her... given she just had surgery and A will be there at the drop of a hat. (She has even done things for P that she never even offered to do for me when our friendship was growing while I was recovering from surgery). And she has this over the top bubbly personality that grates my nerves, so I made it clear to P that I do not want to be at her home when A is there, and from now on will ask if A is there before I come over. 

Surprisingly when I asked her how she would feel if I befriended her exfriend who hurt her, she paused, thought about it and said she wouldn't care, she would just warn me, and tell me she didn't want to be around her. I thought that odd. I feel like in addition to this new revelation about my husband, I am losing another friend in the process. It just sucks.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Live -

The standard advice you will get here at TAM is that there must be no further contact between your husband and A. You say here that "They do still occasionally talk due to kid activities" but in your other thread you said "Yes he has stopped all contact that I am aware of." Which one is it? Definitely you NOW should tell him that A told P she was/is emotionally connected to him. If the EA is still continuing (let's hope not but still need to be watchful) that will put some fear into him that information is getting out and that he cannot control that. He might be more forthcoming to volunteer additional details, if there are any. During that discussion go deliberately very slow on revealing what you know to see if he has deer in the headlights look when you are talking. 

If your husband has to drop out of the club leadership so as to avoid A, so be it. Due to this situation, you have lost two "friends". You have lost trust in your husband - " I plan on stopping in at odd times". He might not like it, but him dropping out of the club, but still having your kid participate, does not compare to what you are going through. He can find another activity for his time, hopefully one that will not cause you additional stress. 

As for your "mind that runs away with itself" I can relate to that. I am same very much way. But trust your gut. If you think something is wrong it probably is.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Both of you need to sit down and read "Not Just Friends" @80% of affairs start from a friendship.

While you're at it read His Needs, Her Needs as well. Maybe the best ever written for marriage.

All good marriages take work. This would be a good place to start.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You've been here long enough to know about checking phone, text, email, and computer history records so what have you found?

Have you used a VAR? GPS?

Have you talked to her husband?

You caught her four times. How many times did he admit to?

Her being in your house that many times would be divorce for me. The only way they could convince me they weren't having a physical affair would be a polygraph.

You have enough redflags flying for a Mayday parade.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Liv- No real advice to give you just more commiseration…

My H too has continued contact as OW is his boss and he wouldn't transfer since he admits to nothing. 

I too have a mind that will run away with things but that doesn't mean the place it is running too isn't the truth. MC said a paranoid person CAN actually have someone following them.

The fact that your H was dishing A means nothing. My H said the guys at work insult OW behind her back, talk about her weight and that obviously he would never be attracted to her. When I reminded him he ALSO has said HE never talks about her behind her back and that HE would never call her overweight….- he shrugged and changed the subject. I think he was just trying another method to get me to stop implying he had feelings for her. I think its a common tactic to throw you off the scent.

Be vigilant - trust and verify-
I have done that and have come up without the smoking gun. I find just enough to indicate he is deceptive but no details. It has made me obsessively and compulsively think about it, research it, check and cross check. It is crazy making. I don't know what to do next I just know I can't keep this up and stay healthy.

Keep updating. I wish you peace.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

livelaughlovenow said:


> And I wish I could honestly say that I know the EA is over, but I do not. They do still occassionaly talk due to kid activities, but he also is getting ready to be on a new shift, making him home again during the day... I plan on stopping in at odd times (that is how I found them here before) each time though they were in the man cave (garage) smoking. Although once they both had the deer in the headlights look.


You won't be truly over the EA if you still feel the need to monitor him. It is a mentally destructive mindset.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Live -
> 
> The standard advice you will get here at TAM is that there must be no further contact between your husband and A. You say here that "They do still occasionally talk due to kid activities" but in your other thread you said "Yes he has stopped all contact that I am aware of." Which one is it? Definitely you NOW should tell him that A told P she was/is emotionally connected to him. If the EA is still continuing (let's hope not but still need to be watchful) that will put some fear into him that information is getting out and that he cannot control that. He might be more forthcoming to volunteer additional details, if there are any. During that discussion go deliberately very slow on revealing what you know to see if he has deer in the headlights look when you are talking.
> 
> ...


Actually as I updated another thread, I found out he is still talking to her in the mornings, he rushes out of the house to be at work, and drop our daughter at the bus stop, but instead he has been dropping her at Am's house (it's been cold) and chatting her up my 12 yr old estimated about 10-15 mins a day.... sigh.....


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Relationship Teacher said:


> You won't be truly over the EA if you still feel the need to monitor him. It is a mentally destructive mindset.


Yes but how do I stop it?!


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Both of you need to sit down and read "Not Just Friends" @80% of affairs start from a friendship.
> 
> While you're at it read His Needs, Her Needs as well. Maybe the best ever written for marriage.
> 
> All good marriages take work. This would be a good place to start.


He refuses to read, I have been reading on marriage healing improving communication etc for years. He gets upset whenever I suggest improvements to our relationship and says that I always think something is wrong when he thinks things are fine.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> You've been here long enough to know about checking phone, text, email, and computer history records so what have you found?
> 
> Have you used a VAR? GPS?
> 
> ...


No I have not talked with her husband, we are not friendly and when he is home they always just kept to themselves. She is a total different person when he is home. I haven't done the VAR or GPS because I thought things were resolved. What is a Mayday parade???? 
I know there are red flags, but what if nothing really happened... that sticks in my mind too. I don't want to throw our marriage down the tubes and hurt my children, they will both take it very hard.... over suspicion. However at the same time, Am admitting the emotional part to Pm really gets me. 

I will say Dh knows that I am upset with Pm friending Am, and I casually mentioned there was something that Pm should've told me sooner, and his head popped up, he wasn't really paying attention before, and goes what did she say? And I said it didn't really matter it wasn't about him. I honestly am hoping that Pm does have a motive and that is to find out if Am really had an affair with my husband..... but I don't know if that is the case. My emotions are running wild at the moment.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I know there are red flags, *but what if nothing really happened... *that sticks in my mind too. I don't want to throw our marriage down the tubes and hurt my children, they will both take it very hard.... *over suspicion. *However at the same time, Am admitting the emotional part to Pm really gets me.
> 
> I will say *Dh knows that I am upset with Pm friending Am*, and I casually mentioned there was something that Pm should've told me sooner, and his head popped up, he wasn't really paying attention before, and goes what did she say? And I said it didn't really matter it wasn't about him. I honestly am hoping that Pm does have a motive and that is to find out if Am really had an affair with my husband..... but I don't know if that is the case. *My emotions are running wild at the moment.*


Live,

Now is not the time to second guess your "suspicions". DH needs to be told that his interaction with Am is extremely of concern to you because Am has revealed that she has feelings for him. Skip the discussion details of who said what when. Let him think you know more than you might. There has been secret visits to your house and now one-on-one bus stop meetings between them without you. Even your daughter notices. This all in itself is MORE THAN ENOUGH for you to insist that DH stops ALL interaction with Am. So even if this is all in your head, then DH can sacrifice some chat time with Am just to give some relief to HIS WIFE. IMO, it is not just in your head. You want to know if there is more than just EA or early EA. IMO an EA just does not stop without some event to make it stop, and continued interactions between the two EA partners, even if one sided EA, cannot continue. 

Sure, your husband thinks everything is fine, but he better d*** figure out soon that his wife does not think things are fine. 

Have you told him "our marriage is in trouble"?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Having been there, the only thing that worked was mirroring my wife's behaviour.

Sometimes when the shoe is on the other foot, it's easier to cut through the BS.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your husband is still in contact with this woman ? He still refuses to talk about it and he goes upset when you mentioned it !

You are in deep trouble my Lady. Dont get me wrong please,but I am mad at you because you allowed this. When you first time found about this you should put a stop on it,but you let it slip and look where are you now. 

Your husband saw this and he continue doing this because he lost some respect for you and he dont care about your feelings.

I just noticed you have almost 800 comments,so you know what to do,at least first steps.

Look for his phone,mail records. If he have paswords on it then it is another bad thing. People in marriage should not have secret paswords,accounts and stuff like that. 

Sit him down on the sofa and tell him how this hurts you and how you feel about this. If he cares at least a little bit about you he will consider this.

Tell him No Contact means No Contact. You,your kids or his "friendship" with this woman.

If he still keep doing this then you know where you stand.

Stay strong my Lady.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Blue, not directly since this new discovery but we have had that conversation when this first started because I told him the lack of respect he was showing me by continuing to have her here. I have not yet discussed the OW admitting EA... haven't said a word about that yet. I've been trying to process a ton of emotional **** all at one time (she has friended my so-called best friend too).... even joined our church. We've been through a lot the last two years, and frankly when things were happening I did rug sweep it, because he apologized and swore nothing happened between them. 
I need to have that conversation and was hoping to today but he came home from work with the flu.... 

BeSmart... wow.... (first I have almost 800 posts because I have been a member 3 years (since our marriage problems started) but I guess I see your point I did rug sweep initially due to circumstances. And when I did bring it up he says I get paranoid with any woman he friends. I kindly reminded him of how when we first started dating we made an agreement, no NEW friends of the opposite sex, and any that we had relationships with were cut out. He apologized, etc. Plus during this time period he was a stay at home Dad in between jobs and I managed the bills just fine. Now I need him to work, and he is working. However, I only found out about the bus stop thing a day or two ago. I have to process information and emotions before I storm at him. I know my marriage is in trouble. I got the books mentioned, His Needs Her Needs, the love Dare and How to Make a Man listen so that he will actually hear me and get me and not dismiss my feelings. I have also been reading fight for your marriage.... because I have felt disconnected from him from a while, and he would say the same during some conversations, but I would say over the last two months I think it was about 2 months ago he stated that I always think something is wrong with our marriage (only in the couple years because things have been) Total we have been married for 13 years. 

Blue, yes I know my daughter only told me because she overheard a conversation I was having with a friend. 

The kicker is this past Oct. I went on a business trip, flirted with a guy (normally I would never flirt back) and it felt good. I came home and told DH about it. Hoping to get his attention. I had it for about a week, and then lost it again. So I am not even sure rehashing the same problems is worth it. But I don't want to destroy my kids. Every adult who has issues can say and place "when my parents got divorced" I hear it all the time in regards to a substantial turning point in their lives.... I think at this point we may need professional help but I am not sure how to fit that into the schedule, but I am going to work on it and call tomorrow to see if my insurance covers it. I can't go on like this.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I had emergency, life saving surgery last year. For the first couple of months things were fine then I really started to notice a change in his behavior. He became very distant, grumpy, even more passive aggressive than usual. 

In the end I discovered that he had started an EA. Even when I found the receipt for her Mother's Day flowers "To the BEST MOTHER in the WORLD!" He convinced me that they were 'Just Friends'. 

Come August I stopped being naive & started snooping. Turns out it took only a few months from hospital too him asking her to set-up a secret account for them to communicate!

I've read the "You're the first thing I think about when I wake & the last thing I think of as I fall asleep!", the 'I love you's' are killers! They broke me down to put her on a pedestal. 

I know people seem to think that an EA is so much 'less' than a PA but honestly I don't feel the difference! I know it's said that men think the sex is the biggest betrayal but for me it's the EMOTION. My H said he stopped loving me. He loved HER! He told her OUR secrets. He bought her gifts of MY music, MY wine, God even MY CHILDRENS BOOKS!!

You need to find the TRUTH of this. My H would get incredibly angry denying everything. "How could I think that?". He made me feel crazy, weak & paranoid. 

I understand. He said that I wasn't making him feel 'special' (I'd had surgery! I nearly died!!) He was stressed because he lost his job. She flattered him & made him feel good. We couldn't start to move forward until he admitted that it WAS an AFFAIR! 

He broke my heart & stole our love story. He gave the love, support & attention that I desperately needed to HER & pulled further & further away from me. It destroyed me.

At the moment you're the paranoid, negative, no fun woman & she's his rock, his support. He knows that being in contact with HER hurts YOU but he's not stopping. He's already telling you that she's very important to him....

I'm so very sorry. I know my situation is different because the OW was his ex-mistress but I read email by email how easy & how fast these things happen. I have zero doubt that if she lived closer it would of become a PA before I even knew he was back in contact with her.

PLEASE protect yourself & protect your marriage! My H now says that it was 'just' a fantasy, all in his head. That doesn't reduce my agony in the slightest!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If there's any destruction of kids happening, it isn't you who is doing it.

It is your clueless husband.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I need to have that conversation ........ *but.*.........
> 
> I have to process information and emotions before I storm at him.
> 
> ...


Live, we feel your pain and understand this is very troubling for you. Most people in your situation will feel the same. Now, no more hoping and passive messages, like the flirting example. Circle on the calendar the date that you will reveal to DH that AM has emotions for him. And by calendar, I mean soon, like this week or as soon as flu is over, preferably sooner. Before you talk, write down on one piece of paper what you will say to DH. Then rip that up and write your message on half the paper. Your message to DH will be short, direct and firm. No more contact with Am under any circumstances while he is married to you. What happens after that we do not know. It may get better, or it may get worse then better. But as you said, you cannot go on like this. 

As a guy, I cannot thing of anything DH can say to counter the message. He can and will deny anything happened (meaning PA) and deny he has feelings for AM (I am sure he will), but he cannot undo that AM has stated she feeling for him and THAT ALONE is grounds for ending all contact. I would hesitate on revealing that the information came from PM unless you feel you must and you do not have to reveal the timing of when that was said. DH may question PM being a reliable source and you could then offer to drive him and you over to PM's house for confirmation if he does not believe. 

The message DH also needs to get in his head is that AM is talking to others about the situation. If there is something more, DH will worry that AM will not keep her mouth shut and that information WILL get back to you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

He sounds not very into you. 

It could explain a great many things.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Wanted to write this "Your marriage is more important then your job or stuff like that,so you need to make another schedule  " but I read some of your threads you posted since 2013 and your husband is such a fool (sorry). 

I could only saw your hard work and how to make this marriage better.

He calls you for your insecurity : well I dont see it that way. I dont see anything I would call insecure. You make a deal back when you were dating about male and female friends,ex-girlffriends and stuff like that.

You told him over and over again about this woman and how it makes you feel and he keeps seeing her behind your back. You just found out about bus incident,two-three days ago. 

Also he was flirting,touching another women in front of you since 2013 and his answer to all of this is that you are paranoid and nothing to worry about. 

I can bet he will do the same thing when you bring this bus incident again


You need to be stronger my Lady. This shi77 is going for a long time and if he really cares about you he will do the right thing. 

Let him know this woman have to go from his life and from then let him fight for your marriage. You did it for 3 years,now it is his turn.

Best wishes to you.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> As a guy, I cannot thing of anything DH can say to counter the message. He can and will deny anything happened (meaning PA) and deny he has feelings for AM (I am sure he will), but he cannot undo that AM has stated she feeling for him and THAT ALONE is grounds for ending all contact. I would hesitate on revealing that the information came from PM unless you feel you must and you do not have to reveal the timing of when that was said. DH may question PM being a reliable source and you could then offer to drive him and you over to PM's house for confirmation if he does not believe.
> 
> The message DH also needs to get in his head is that AM is talking to others about the situation. If there is something more, DH will worry that AM will not keep her mouth shut and that information WILL get back to you.


I am intrigued by your suggestion.... he will figure out that Pm said it to me.... so you think that if he doesn't believe it I can have Pm tell him directly what Am said? (He will probably just claim she is stirring trouble)... because he knows I am not happy with Am and Pm being friendly. I had a long talk with Pm this evening. She is only using Am for a product downline, and trying to get more information for me. (different thread) anyway, so are you suggesting that Dh goes back to OW (Am) and tells her to keep her mouth shut... but how does that get back to me? I'm curious how you think that will work?

I've read on here that you shouldn't confront too early... and here is a concern of mine, what if it did turn physical, given they had ample opportunity at my home. I would like for Pm to dig a little deeper, since she has Am's trust. worth it or no?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Be smart said:


> Also he was flirting,touching another women in front of you since 2013 and his answer to all of this is that you are paranoid and nothing to worry about.


So much has happened in life in the last few years I don't remember what you are referencing, now I am going to have to go back and look. I know he definitely has changed.... but then why does he stay? Why does he still say the things he does-when he does say them... Should I flat out ask him if he is only staying because of the children and that I take care of him when he is sick. He did battle (short thank God) with non hodgkins lymphoma this past year, 2 surgeries and radiation.... but I was home with him for all that... mostly.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Live,

IMO you are needing certainty before taking action. There is no certainty in real life. You are letting your self-doubts, fed by your H’s comments, prevent you from making progress. Consider the analogy of criminal vs civil trial. To win in a criminal trial, it must be beyond reasonable doubt. For civil trial, you can win with just 51%. You (and most of the posters to this thread) are more than 51% certain there is a serious problem here. You KNOW that and that is enough for you to take actions (plural). 

To help you decide what actions to take, I suggest you prepare a Wants and Musts List. Write down the top priority 3-4 outcomes/goals you hope to achieve with your actions. These goals must be specific, measureable and timely, not comment like “I want a better marriage”. Wants are lower priority and more passive. Musts are very high priority and more active. For example, you might write down “I want DH to stop interacting with AM”. This means you are willing to wait for them to stop on their own, or wait for AM’s husband to return so problem goes away. If you write “DH MUST stop interacting with AM”, that means you confront/discuss/storm DH about AM’s feelings for him and you firmly insist that he STOP interaction with her NOW. 

Another example can be you write “I want to know if DH is having EA/PA with AM”, meaning you are willing to wait months/years for possibly PM to find out for you. If you write “I MUST know if DH is having EA/PA with AM”, then follow the TAM advice and take action with VAR, private investigator, etc.

The key here is to determine what you WANT to know versus what you MUST know and that will help you decide what action to take. Waiting is not taking action. Hopefully your list has mostly MUSTS. 

Another way to look at this is to picture your daughter going through your situation in 10-15 years. If that happened, what advice would you give her? Tell her to wait longer? I really doubt you would tell her that. Am I right?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I don't know what will wake your husband up. I don't know the "why" of why he is doing it. I've read a SAHD is more likely to commit adultery then their wife. 

I do know you need to make an appointment (on your own, without discussing with anyone) an appointment with an attorney to establish a base line if a divorce occurs. 

I do know you need to not confront at this time and continue to use the standard of evidence post. 

I do know when you confront you must have clearly defined goals and boundaries ready, which are non-negotiable. 

I do know a picture of them at the bus stop would be good, but necessary. 

I do know you should read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/128754-examples-cheaters-script-thread-resource.html and http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...nly-hrd-cheater-phrses-their-translation.html. 

I do know P is not a friend, at best she is an occasional Ally.

Finally I know you need to do what you can today. Do not let what you don't know stop you.


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