# Suggestions or tips on being a more masculine man?



## jakeskate

Hey fellas, or ladies if any happen to stumble across this post, As you may know by previous posts of mine that i am having some marital troubles. This has resulted in some infidelity on my wifes end. I have been doing a lot of self reflection and I see and know what drove things to this point. Yes, i know it is not entirely my fault but i have to take accountability for my role in things that led up this point. So i'm going to keep it short and sweet for the purpose of getting some sound advice and put some your suggestion into action. My wife has told me throughout our marriage that i am not a man or i dont act like a man in certain situations where she's trying to push my buttons. 

I was raised by a single mother and never really saw how a "man" is supposed to be in a marriage with kids. Not making excuses but just looking for some guidance on how to be more masculine. I see these videos and read blogs on the fact that you need to be masculine to keep the spark but they wont give examples unless you buy their program. I need some simple tools to be more masculine because i see that is one thing i know i am lacking. I have a pretty good idea just for common sense purposes but i lack practice of the correct things that would make me better. please help and thank you


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## MJJEAN

"Hold on to Your NUTS"

"No More Mr Nice Guy"

and 

"The Married Man Sex Life Primer" might help.


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## As'laDain

jakeskate said:


> Hey fellas, or ladies if any happen to stumble across this post, As you may know by previous posts of mine that i am having some marital troubles. This has resulted in some infidelity on my wifes end. I have been doing a lot of self reflection and I see and know what drove things to this point. Yes, i know it is not entirely my fault but i have to take accountability for my role in things that led up this point. So i'm going to keep it short and sweet for the purpose of getting some sound advice and put some your suggestion into action. My wife has told me throughout our marriage that i am not a man or i dont act like a man in certain situations where she's trying to push my buttons.
> 
> I was raised by a single mother and never really saw how a "man" is supposed to be in a marriage with kids. Not making excuses but just looking for some guidance on how to be more masculine. I see these videos and read blogs on the fact that you need to be masculine to keep the spark but they wont give examples unless you buy their program. I need some simple tools to be more masculine because i see that is one thing i know i am lacking. I have a pretty good idea just for common sense purposes but i lack practice of the correct things that would make me better. please help and thank you



long story short, you decide who you are going to be and you be it. thats what the books that @MJJEAN mentioned are all about. all three of them are different ways of saying the same thing: take control of YOU.

that means that you do not compromise on your integrity. it means you decide what kind of man you want to be and be it. and you dont let anyone decide WHO you will be except for you. 

an example from my own life: when my wife used to accuse me of thinking she was stupid, wanting to make her look stupid, plotting against her, etc, i would not entertain the conversations. i love my wife, i always have, and i will not tell her otherwise just to confirm her beliefs to the contrary. she used to think that i thought she was stupid, so she kept trying to get me to confirm that view. it took several years, but she now accepts that i think she is far smarter than i am in a lot of ways. i mean, she was a ****ing NUKE in the NAVY for crying out loud... you dont pass that school if you are stupid. 

i didnt just avoid engaging in conversations where she was lashing out at me from her own insecurities. i also sought out ways to help her become more confident. i got both of us involved in a LOT of various activities. those activities gave me lots of ways to point out just how incredibly brilliant she is, and i could be completely honest in pointing it out because it because it was completely true. 

my wife used to seek praise in areas where she didnt actually deserve it... for instance, she might go out and spend 12,00 dollars on stuff we didnt need nor really even want and would want me to tell her that she did good because she saved 70 dollars with coupons. i didnt tell her she did good during those times. i was honest with her. during those times, she ****ed up. she didnt really need me to tell her that, she already knew. she just thought that messing up would be worse than it actually is. it took several years for her to understand that she can mess up around me, and that its ok. where she came from, it was never ok. it was never safe to make a mistake. 

This is just who i want to be. i want to be someone that my wife can make mistakes with and grow with. i want to be someone who i can be proud of. 


you want to be more masculine? its pretty simple. just decide what kind of man you want to be, and then be him. do the kinds of things that the man you envision yourself being would do. and dont give up just because you run into something that you hadn't thought of yet. if you encounter something new, take some time, reflect and think, and then make a decision. 

whatever the case, it starts with you deciding who you want to be.


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## red oak

https://www.artofmanliness.com

ETA: The website is broad as is being a man. 
Hope it helps.


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## Diana7

How sad and cruel of your wife to tell you that you are not a man and don't act like a man.That alone is a sure fire way of making you feel 'less than. If a woman wants her husband to be more 'manly', she needs to treat him with respect and talk to him in a way that builds him up, not tears him down. 
I feel so sad that so many men come here whose wives have cheated and who have believed the lies she has told them about it being their fault. Rubbish .Its she who cheated not you.


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## jlg07

"As you may know by previous posts of mine that i am having some marital troubles. This has resulted in some infidelity on my wifes end. I have been doing a lot of self reflection and I see and know what drove things to this point. Yes, i know it is not entirely my fault but i have to take accountability for my role in things that led up this point."

THIS is flat out bull****. YOU DID NOT CAUSE HER TO CHEAT. If you had so many troubles that you caused, she should have LEFT YOU. It is 100% HER FAULT that she cheated.
From this" My wife has told me throughout our marriage that i am not a man or i dont act like a man in certain situations where she's trying to push my buttons.
"
SHE IS NOT REMORSEFUL about cheating. What consequences did she face when you caught her? What did SHE do to help you through the cheating? Did you just rug sweep (I haven't read your other thread yet, so I don't know if you describe it there).
I also second the art of manliness web site. A lot of younger guys never really had masculine role models growing up and just plain don't know how to do what are considered "manly" things.


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## jakeskate

ok thats a great start and thank you. So let me get this straight, and if i'm on the ball here i can definitely expand and tap into this. My wife likes to buy antiques and old decor/ diy/ re purposed stuff. I have told her before, "where are you going to put that?" or "we dont have a need for that." because 90% of the time we dont have a place for it or a need for it. now granted there are some things that she gets that we do use and have a place for but my house feels like a storage unit because i feel like i cave too much to her impulse buys. Is that a good example? Just trying to understand by comparing your life experiences to mine... there is more i'm sure but that is the first thing that comes to mind to maybe start things off. Also the Sex thing. I know she is a sexual person but she questions that with me. I know the reason is because i'll be irritated with her or something she said and not want to make any moves. this will go on for weeks. I just watched a video where the guy suggests treating your wife like she is your own personal ****. no offense to anyone but meaning as the man we need to make sure she knows on a regular basis that you desire her as her husband. does it sound like i'm on the right track here?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Please take heed to these words; 

you didn't cause your W to be unfaithful. That's all on her.

Yes we all need improvements in certain areas of our lives (any person, any gender, any particular area). 

At any given time.


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## bandit.45

Here is the first step: chuck that cheating, insulting, mean-ass wife of yours out the door. If she wanted to be married to Mr. Tough Guy, she should have married Mr. Tough guy. 

Don't change yourself for anyone. The only person you should be trying to impress is yourself.


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## StillSearching

https://therationalmale.com/


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## jakeskate

jlg07 said:


> "As you may know by previous posts of mine that i am having some marital troubles. This has resulted in some infidelity on my wifes end. I have been doing a lot of self reflection and I see and know what drove things to this point. Yes, i know it is not entirely my fault but i have to take accountability for my role in things that led up this point."
> 
> THIS is flat out bull****. YOU DID NOT CAUSE HER TO CHEAT. If you had so many troubles that you caused, she should have LEFT YOU. It is 100% HER FAULT that she cheated.
> From this" My wife has told me throughout our marriage that i am not a man or i dont act like a man in certain situations where she's trying to push my buttons.
> "
> SHE IS NOT REMORSEFUL about cheating. What consequences did she face when you caught her? What did SHE do to help you through the cheating? Did you just rug sweep (I haven't read your other thread yet, so I don't know if you describe it there).
> I also second the art of manliness web site. A lot of younger guys never really had masculine role models growing up and just plain don't know how to do what are considered "manly" things.


I'm with you all the way there. but i find myself letting her do what she wants whether i agree with it or not. i give her too much control and dont lead enough. I see that. and I know she has cheated and its her problem and fault. her consequence is knowing that i've already spoke to a divorce attorney and the D word means she has to get a job, move out and lose a ton of money without alimony due to the fact that adultery was committed. She is turning it around as we speak. i and i recognize that i have the upper hand in the relationship now. I am just trying to put in some work and routine so we dont fall into this rut again. BTW thank you.


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## Andy1001

jakeskate said:


> Hey fellas, or ladies if any happen to stumble across this post, As you may know by previous posts of mine that i am having some marital troubles. This has resulted in some infidelity on my wifes end. I have been doing a lot of self reflection and I see and know what drove things to this point. Yes, i know it is not entirely my fault but i have to take accountability for my role in things that led up this point. So i'm going to keep it short and sweet for the purpose of getting some sound advice and put some your suggestion into action. My wife has told me throughout our marriage that i am not a man or i dont act like a man in certain situations where she's trying to push my buttons.
> 
> I was raised by a single mother and never really saw how a "man" is supposed to be in a marriage with kids. Not making excuses but just looking for some guidance on how to be more masculine. I see these videos and read blogs on the fact that you need to be masculine to keep the spark but they wont give examples unless you buy their program. I need some simple tools to be more masculine because i see that is one thing i know i am lacking. I have a pretty good idea just for common sense purposes but i lack practice of the correct things that would make me better. please help and thank you


You were here four years ago telling us about how your wife was cheating with another man. She was lying to you that the affair was over but because you were able to see her phone records you knew she was continuing with the affair. 
She also traveled out of state on numerous occasions to meet her boyfriend and you knew this. 
She didn’t work and had her affair on your dime. 
You were confidently telling everyone that you were divorcing her.
You didn’t. 
Now she’s cheating again and to your amazement your wife thinks that you don’t act like a man. 
Don’t you get it?
She walks over you and pisses on your lines in the sand. She has absolutely no reason to respect you and you haven’t given her any. 
Masculine? Don’t make me laugh.


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## wilson

Once again, you are doing her bidding. She is calling the shots. You're trying to see how to mold yourself to fit what she wants to see. This is also a great way for her to set the stage to cheat again. She can say that you didn't become masculine enough and that's why she had to cheat. 

One great way to show her that you're a man is to say you're done dealing with her crap and divorce her. Be strong throughout the whole process. Don't cry or back down. That's what a confident man would do.


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## StillSearching

Women only have sex with a man they respect.
Become that man. 
If a woman does not respect you......you're next guy they put on ice, and lay down with the exciting man.


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## 2ntnuf

bandit.45 said:


> Here is the first step: chuck that cheating, insulting, mean-ass wife of yours out the door. If she wanted to be married to Mr. Tough Guy, she should have married Mr. Tough guy.
> 
> Don't change yourself for anyone. The only person you should be trying to impress is yourself.


This is what I was going to post, but not in as good a form. Listen to @bandit.45. 

You cannot change who you are. You can change what you will live with. Read about boundaries, how to make them and how to stand up for them. These are like lines in the sand you won't cross. They aren't what you can do to save your marriage or become more attractive to a woman like your wife. 

She didn't know who she was or what she needed for a husband. She's hurt you because her true self has come out. She can no longer be your wife. Her heart was never in it. She was faking who she really is. It caught up with her. 

If you don't know what your role is in a marriage, you discuss that with a loving wife and she will help you figure out what she expects of you. Some women don't want you changing their oil or cleaning their car. Some want to cut the grass themselves. It is not the same world any more. Everyone is different. 

One thing that will help you is to learn how to take care of yourself and be alone for a while. I don't mean completely alone. I mean live alone and learn how to do all the things life requires you do to live a decent life. Figure out what you like and do those things. Try a few hobbies and see which you like. 

Meet people and go do different things. Get some friends to do stuff with. Doesn't matter what, as long as you are having a good time. Date casually, not looking for sex or a relationship, but only for finding out the personality of the woman. The rest will come, if it is meant to be. Don't let yourself be forced into doing anything. Again, do what makes you happy, whatever that is. 

Whatever you like is fine. You don't have to be anyone, but your self. Don't do what you don't want to do, but don't be rude and nasty. Just be who you are with boundaries. There are women who like that more than they like a tough guy. You got duped this time. 

Cut her loose and find what makes you happy. Because you are loving a person who cannot love you back, you are making yourself feel like you are worthless. You aren't. You are just in a marriage with the wrong woman. 

Nothing wrong with those books. They are all good. Just keep in mind you can only be who you are. You cannot be someone else. Don't bother trying. Learn what you can to be comfortable in your own skin. That's being a man.


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## jakeskate

Andy1001 said:


> You were here four years ago telling us about how your wife was cheating with another man. She was lying to you that the affair was over but because you were able to see her phone records you knew she was continuing with the affair.
> She also traveled out of state on numerous occasions to meet her boyfriend and you knew this.
> She didn’t work and had her affair on your dime.
> You were confidently telling everyone that you were divorcing her.
> You didn’t.
> Now she’s cheating again and to your amazement your wife thinks that you don’t act like a man.
> Don’t you get it?
> She walks over you and pisses on your lines in the sand. She has absolutely no reason to respect you and you haven’t given her any.
> Masculine? Don’t make me laugh.


I am divorcing her! This is for myself. I would have not let her cheat even once if i had a little more self respect. Trying to get some tips for when the divorce is final. Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this.


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## StillSearching

youtube Donovan Sharpe......He often talks about how to "Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this."...
You can only achieve this with knowledge and understanding of women and their behavior.

Or Rollo Tomassi


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## 2ntnuf

jakeskate said:


> I am divorcing her! This is for myself. I would have not let her cheat even once if i had a little more self respect. Trying to get some tips for when the divorce is final. Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this.


You cannot stop someone from cheating, if that's what they want. You can only get out quickly and put it behind you. You cannot force anyone to do what you want. 

You will meet other women like this. They are everywhere, just as men like the one with her are everywhere. Just get to know those you talk with. The signs will show themselves. You don't have to say anything. Just move on to someone else.


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## Andy1001

jakeskate said:


> I am divorcing her! This is for myself. I would have not let her cheat even once if i had a little more self respect. Trying to get some tips for when the divorce is final. Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this.


This may sound like a cliche but you need to become the type of man who women would cheat with, not on. Go to the gym, get some new clothes and maybe a new haircut.
Face your fears. This means stop being so conflict avoidant and not just with your personal life but in your business as well. You got screwed over in that smoothie business and you need to lawyer up.
You need to become more confident, even aggressive in certain situations. And the first thing you need to do is overcome this self doubt that is so obvious in all your posts.
Learn to appreciate yourself because if you don’t nobody else will. Talk yourself up and I don’t mean bragging. When you meet new people don’t be afraid to talk about your accomplishments. Modesty is all very well but it’s best left to those with plenty to be modest about. 
And finally, learn how to say no.


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## jakeskate

2ntnuf said:


> You cannot stop someone from cheating, if that's what they want. You can only get out quickly and put it behind you. You cannot force anyone to do what you want.
> 
> You will meet other women like this. They are everywhere, just as men like the one with her are everywhere. Just get to know those you talk with. The signs will show themselves. You don't have to say anything. Just move on to someone else.


We have some business things that we have to put our heads together on that require some teamwork. I'd like to keep things amicable in the meantime and kinda want to stick it to her. Like gain her respect and affection again and then when i have it, pull the plug and leave her ass. dirty, but she was dirty to me


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## jakeskate

Andy1001 said:


> This may sound like a cliche but you need to become the type of man who women would cheat with, not on. Go to the gym, get some new clothes and maybe a new haircut.
> Face your fears. This means stop being so conflict avoidant and not just with your personal life but in your business as well. You got screwed over in that smoothie business and you need to lawyer up.
> You need to become more confident, even aggressive in certain situations. And the first thing you need to do is overcome this self doubt that is so obvious in all your posts.
> Learn to appreciate yourself because if you don’t nobody else will. Talk yourself up and I don’t mean bragging. When you meet new people don’t be afraid to talk about your accomplishments. Modesty is all very well but it’s best left to those with plenty to be modest about.
> And finally, learn how to say no.


Thanks I agree with you completely!!! Since those posts i do have a divorce attorney on retainer. I have a business attorney meeting with me on Tuesday that said he can get this resolved. I'm heading in the right direction based on everyone's feedback, it just takes time. Funny because i have been going to the gym lately, got a bunch of new clothes and a new haircut. I am working on my health and hygiene a lot more and quit drinking. I smoke too so trying to ween myself off of that.


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## Girl_power

At least kick her out of the house now. 
No offense but she has all the control. She literally does whatever she wants to do and you just take it.


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## 2ntnuf

jakeskate said:


> We have some business things that we have to put our heads together on that require some teamwork. I'd like to keep things amicable in the meantime and kinda want to stick it to her. Like gain her respect and affection again and then when i have it, pull the plug and leave her ass. dirty, but she was dirty to me


Treat her with civility. Do not try to trick her.


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## jakeskate

Girl_power said:


> At least kick her out of the house now.
> No offense but she has all the control. She literally does whatever she wants to do and you just take it.


i get it but easier said than done. we have 2 small children together and i dont want **** to go down in front of them. If we didn't i would have zero second thoughts about giving her the boot.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

jakeskate said:


> We have some business things that we have to put our heads together on that require some teamwork. I'd like to keep things amicable in the meantime and kinda want to stick it to her. Like gain her respect and affection again and then when i have it, pull the plug and leave her ass. dirty, but she was dirty to me


Friend, there is no possible way that amicable can exist for you. 

Every word you hear from her you perceive as kindly is a word she's carefully chosen to dole out to you to control or steal from you both emotionally and financially. 

Your best hope is to know she's manipulating you with her every word she utters. 

Best you armor up and become ruthless. 

You don't need her to be amicable. You need her to fear your retaliation if she doesn't play ball. 

Every single word from her is calculated and expressed to cause you and future you harm.

Can't make it any clearer than that.


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## Girl_power

jakeskate said:


> i get it but easier said than done. we have 2 small children together and i dont want **** to go down in front of them. If we didn't i would have zero second thoughts about giving her the boot.




It sounds like your afraid of her. You have every excuse in the book.


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## Girl_power

This women falls in love with you, and makes vows and becomes your wife. Then she decides to stay home and stop working, while emasculating and degrading you, telling you that you aren’t man enough or good enough for her. All while, you are putting a roof over her head as well as your children’s. Then she has the audacity to cheat on you after everything you have done for her and you still don’t “want to cause problems” and upset her.


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## phillybeffandswiss

jakeskate said:


> We have some business things that we have to put our heads together on that require some teamwork. I'd like to keep things amicable in the meantime and kinda want to stick it to her. Like gain her respect and affection again and then when i have it, pull the plug and leave her ass. dirty, but she was dirty to me


You know this is the exact opposite of what you are trying to do. This is conniving and petty. Also, quit hiding behind your kids, your debacle of a marriage has already gone down in front of them.


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## Girl_power

Man up and leave her.


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## Luminous

jakeskate said:


> I am divorcing her! This is for myself. I would have not let her cheat even once if i had a little more self respect. Trying to get some tips for when the divorce is final. Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this.


Don't wait till the divorce is final to start down this road. Plant your foot on the gas and start now. 

You need to OWN yourself. That means, show no self doubt (especially in front of her and the kids), stop over thinking, stop making excuses (they are no longer valid reasons).

This will only turn around for you when people start respecting you. Nice guys dont get respected, they get walked on. Being amicable towards someone who has blatantly treated you like rubbish, is not going to bring that about.

I'm not saying become an arsehole, but someone virtuous who will call out BS when it comes his way, and stick to boundaries you set.

Also, think of the example you want to set for your kids. They will model your behaviour for their future relationships.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

@jakeskate

What type of physical specimen are you?

I'll focus on giving you advise on this front.

What is your height, weight age?

How athletic or muscular are you.


It is amazing, how an inch or two increase in shoulder width combined with an inch or two decrease in waist size combined with thighs that are a little thicker and an ass that is a little tighter and shaped, affects female attraction and respect from fellow men.

It doesn't take too long for some decent results but it does take some commitment to exercise and diet.


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## Wolfman1968

jakeskate said:


> I'm with you all the way there. but i find myself letting her do what she wants whether i agree with it or not. i give her too much control and dont lead enough. I see that. and I know she has cheated and its her problem and fault. her consequence is knowing that i've already spoke to a divorce attorney and the D word means she has to get a job, move out and lose a ton of money without alimony due to the fact that adultery was committed. She is turning it around as we speak. i and i recognize that i have the upper hand in the relationship now. I am just trying to put in some work and routine so we dont fall into this rut again. BTW thank you.



I personally would not reconcile with her under these circumstances.

The way you present it above, the only reason she would be "turning it around" is because she doesn't want to lose her financial situation because of the adultery. So, she is not remaining married to you because she values you, because she TRULY loves you (where she would sacrifice to make your happy, as opposed to a lip-service statement of false affection) or because she respects you. She already says you are not "masculine" which typically means she doesn't even find you sexually attractive. 

No, she is only staying for financial reasons. First of all, that would not be a good enough reason for me to accept her as a wife. Secondly, there is the danger that, given the above lack of affection/desire/respect, she would very likely divorce you in the future, but at at time when the adultery is no longer an issue. She would say that you are reconciled from the adultery of the past, and now she is divorcing you for "irreconcilable differences", so that she would still have financial security.

Nope. I wouldn't accept it at all. 

Look did you suddenly become "unmasculine" compared to how you were when she married you? I doubt it. Spouses can grow apart, take each other for granted, introduce substance abuse, etc. which wasn't there before, but do you really believe that your basic "masculinity" changed? No way. You didn't suddenly lose the manly skills you had before--you state yourself that you never had them due to lack of male role models (child of a single mother). 
That raises the question---what was the reason she married you in the first place, anyway? Was it all a security/financial/support--including emotional and childrearing decision? 

Nope. I wouldn't accept this situation at all. Neither should you. And if you decide to accept it despite our advice, you should at least get some sort of "post-nuptial" agreement which would still cut her out of any financial support should the reconciliation not work out in the future.


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## aquarius1

Your words don’t ring true.
You say that you know it’s her fault she cheated, but you are seriously buying her “you’re not manly enough” BS.
You are doing the “pick me” dance.
She doesn’t respect you. Never has and never will.
You could become the biggest Alpha male on the block with a 10 ft manhood and she would still step out on you.
Because the problem is with her, not you.
Please divorce this lying, cheating woman before you lose anymore of yourself.
Go find yourself. Alone. Be loved for YOU.


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## Hiner112

In high school I was the best wrestler at my weight within 50 miles. I was in the top quarter of my engineering class in college. I was surprised by how much Marines whined during boot camp. My ex, when she really wanted to express her resentment or lack of respect for me, would sometimes pull out the "not man enough" or question why I didn't "feel like less of a man" for whatever reason.

Honestly, I doubt changing your attitudes and personality would be worth it just to get attention from a woman. Improving your physical health might get you more attention but you should do it for yourself and not for them. If you are doing it just to get attention, you will likely not be able to maintain the motivation once you're in a relationship.


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## SpinyNorman

Being manly is easy, just post on the internet a lot. 

Reading will show you everyone who does is uber masculine.


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## jorgegene

Any woman who would call her man 'not a real man' without truly just cause, is not worth her womanhood, or much else that I can think of.


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## jlg07

@Wolfman1968, just have to say .... LOVE your location. Were you walking through the streets of SoHo in the rain?


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## Benbutton

First you must grow some balls, then start working out, then become indifferent towards her. Then you find a younger funner model and become a mad hatter. Screw around on her and then watch her reaction...its crazy what women like that will do when you screw around on them, it's almost comical.


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## jakeskate

ConanHub said:


> @jakeskate
> 
> What type of physical specimen are you?
> 
> I'll focus on giving you advise on this front.
> 
> What is your height, weight age?
> 
> How athletic or muscular are you.
> 
> 
> It is amazing, how an inch or two increase in shoulder width combined with an inch or two decrease in waist size combined with thighs that are a little thicker and an ass that is a little tighter and shaped, affects female attraction and respect from fellow men.
> 
> It doesn't take too long for some decent results but it does take some commitment to exercise and diet.


I am a small guy. 5'7" 140lbs. i am 37y/o. I am a trained Muy tai fighter and dabbled in brazilian Ju Jitsu in my early 20's
I am very athletic and coordinated. also a musician and industrial mechanic. I can fix anything.
I am a skateboarder, surfer, snowboarder, dirtbike rider. I am cut and muscular. I used to go to the gym all the time but got busy. I mainly have core strength and agility. not a big bulky guy. more of the ninja type


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## Mr. Nail

ConanHub said:


> @jakeskate
> 
> What type of physical specimen are you?
> 
> I'll focus on giving you advise on this front.
> 
> What is your height, weight age?
> 
> How athletic or muscular are you.
> 
> 
> It is amazing, how an* inch or two increase in* shoulder width combined with an inch or two decrease in waist size combined with thighs that are a little thicker and an ass that is a little tighter and shaped, affects female attraction and respect from fellow men.
> 
> It doesn't take too long for some decent results but it does take some commitment to exercise and diet.


Height would help more


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## jakeskate

I am truly impressed by all of the great advice and hard truth's y'all are pointing out to me. I had a little experiment this weekend and it was very telling and brought me some clarity along with the things everyone on here is saying. I want to thank all of you for taking the time to smack me around with some reality.

I have figured out that she has high narcissistic traits and she is a master manipulator. It all just hit me last night. This has nothing to do with me or any of my flaws (which i do have). When i am distant and indifferent she is all of a sudden very concerned and inquisitive about my motives. When i play her game and tell her i love her and give attention and affection, she is cold and distant and irritable. Almost annoyed by me or anything that i say. The second i stop (and it is literally in seconds) she's all concerned and affectionate again. 

Saturday she put on some cute panties and bra and basically made it clear she wanted to have sex. we started down that road and pulled out her little vibrator toy. I asked to go down on her while I was using the toy on her and she said NO! This wasn't for my pleasure it was for hers but i honestly like giving oral to a woman. Especially my wife of 10+ years. I told her "You suck" when she told me no and immediately shut it down! then we argued about my inadequacies in the past in the bedroom. which is shocking because she talks about how i have the best penis on the planet and we fit together like a glove. Also when we have sex, she always talks about how earth shattering it is. I'm telling you this is a ****ing roller coaster. 

I have spent this morning looking at articles and watching video's about narcissism and manipulation and she is text book. not every single trait but most. She always seems threatened when i seek advice about stuff, like i am going to connect the dots of what she truly is. 

So back to the weekend, she is annoyed and cold and distant. Quieter than normal. Her mom brought the kids back from her house from the holidays and boom! affectionate, loving, attentive and sexual. Then its bed time. she likes to stay up and watch tv til around 2am. i go to sleep about 11pm. she is back to being cold, distant and annoyed when i touch her or talk to her. she tells me "go to sleep" or when i touch her she automatically says "we're not having sex tonight" not like that was my intent at all. Like i said, I was just conducting a little experiment. It's clear what i need to do but on the divorce front she knows it's coming and i'm finding out a after meeting with the attorney, i'm going to have to pay alimony because i cannot prove adultery. My attorney said he might be able to work around it with a confession or signed affidavit but we'll have to see. This **** is crazy and i can't believe i've been such a fool for so long


----------



## jakeskate

Mr. Nail said:


> Height would help more


Thanks! I have so much control over that! :|


----------



## Girl_power

You need to detach from her. Stop having sex. Stop sleeping in the same bed.


----------



## Benbutton

It sounds like your wife could be borderline personality disorder. You get a lot of I love you, I hate you from these people. It is also common to have traits of narcissism and hysteria with this disorder. You might want to try to get you both into ic then mc if you choose to stay in the marriage. If it were me though?...the door wouldn't be able to hit my ass on the way out I'd be running so hard.


----------



## jakeskate

Benbutton said:


> It sounds like your wife could be borderline personality disorder. You get a lot of I love you, I hate you from these people. It is also common to have traits of narcissism and hysteria with this disorder. You might want to try to get you both into ic then mc if you choose to stay in the marriage. If it were me though?...the door wouldn't be able to hit my ass on the way out I'd be running so hard.





Girl_power said:


> You need to detach from her. Stop having sex. Stop sleeping in the same bed.


 @Girl_power I can do that
@Benbutton I am not leaving my house and i can't force her to leave either. I read a story to my son every night and help my daughter with homework every afternoon. I am not sacrificing me and my kids relationship. They prefer their daddy. They say it all the time. but your other analysis seems spot on!


----------



## ConanHub

Mr. Nail said:


> Height would help more


I have not had problems attracting women of all heights and regardless of taller guys than me trying for the same woman.

I've taken the girl home while the 6'3" rival for her affections went home alone.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

I read this meme the other day and thought it was exactly on point, at least to most every woman I have met:

Women are aggressive, yet submissive. This means she will dominate you if you allow her to, but will submit to you, if you are respectful and masculine enough to make her want to.


----------



## jakeskate

ConanHub said:


> I have not had problems attracting women of all heights and regardless of taller guys than me trying for the same woman.
> 
> I've taken the girl home while the 6'3" rival for her affections went home alone.


yeah i always used to pull any girl i wanted. been with many different types. I dont have a problem getting women at all. I'm charming, witty, good looking blah blah blah.... It's my wife i'm having trouble with.


----------



## uhtred

I have a different take. 

Be the person that *you* want to be. Then find someone who wants that person.


----------



## Rob_1

@jakeskate: it seems that you like to talk too much and do little. It's inconceivable, that a man that's been so disrespected by his wife in the forms of emasculation and infidelity, does not show self respect, control, self worth by still trying to have sex with her...what the F??

This is the ultimate capitulation. With your actions you're telling her that you accept what's she's done with other men, and that it's OK for her to get some strange from other men, because you won't mind, because you will still have sex with her.
You may not, but myself and most men that have self respect and self worth, the moment I find that she have sex with another man, I wouldn't touch her with a 20 feet pole. She would disgust me. I would be done with her, most of all, I wouldn't ever, ever go down on her, disgusting, and pathetic on your part. 

This is not just an issue of you not knowing how to be a man, this is an issue of you not knowing how to have respect for yourself.


----------



## ConanHub

jakeskate said:


> yeah i always used to pull any girl i wanted. been with many different types. I dont have a problem getting women at all. I'm charming, witty, good looking blah blah blah.... It's my wife i'm having trouble with.


So you're trying to impress a woman you are leaving?


----------



## sunsetmist

She uses words as weapons. You seem to respond like she is 'the one that got away'--that is, others sought you out, but she keeps you off balance and you want revenge before you 'show her who is boss.' 

Decide--I'd pick divorce. She does not respect you, nor truly love you. Otherwise she would not try to hurt you. Do not try to be like her--petty and antagonistic. Don't confuse strength with meanness.

Be strong and follow your own choice. (Does it bother you that conflicting advice here throws you off?) Life is not perfect. Choices are not perfect. Do not change with the wind.

Continue to set a great example for your kids. You have many years left. Spend them with a caring partner in a reciprocal relationship--not in contention with a competitive witch.

It takes a lot of courage to start on this path. Set your goals and begin.


----------



## FeministInPink

red oak said:


> https://www.artofmanliness.com
> 
> ETA: The website is broad as is being a man.
> Hope it helps.


I clicked on this thread so I could recommend this site. It is fantastic. It's one of those sites I think every man should read, and I've learned many a useful skill from this site as well.


----------



## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> I clicked on this thread so I could recommend this site. It is fantastic. It's one of those sites I think every man should read, and I've learned many a useful skill from this site as well.


The podcast used to be very good. It's declined in quality substantially, and I've stopped listening to it. If you want to listen to the podcast, I'd recommend digging into the archives.


----------



## bandit.45

jakeskate said:


> I am a small guy. 5'7" 140lbs. i am 37y/o. I am a trained Muy tai fighter and dabbled in brazilian Ju Jitsu in my early 20's
> I am very athletic and coordinated. also a musician and industrial mechanic. I can fix anything.
> I am a skateboarder, surfer, snowboarder, dirtbike rider. I am cut and muscular. I used to go to the gym all the time but got busy. I mainly have core strength and agility. not a big bulky guy. more of the ninja type


Bruce Lee was a small, wiry man and no one could say he was weak. If you have done Brazilian Jujitsu then you could probably kick most of our asses here.

As for the things your WW says about you, they have nothing to do with how tough or strong you are. No, what your WW is saying to you is that she does not respect you because she cannot see any sign of you respecting yourself. She cheated on you once before and she suffered no penalties for it. You allowed her right back in and she didn't have to give up a thing. At the same time, you failed to work on your boundaries and self esteem. So neither one of you actually did the work to make the marriage strong and establish good boundaries in your marriage. So that's where you are at now. Your WW is a spoiled, entitled brat, and you helped to create her. Sorry man, but I have to be real with you. 

Divorce her amicably and quickly and get her out of your life. Don't be a **** or petty. Take the high road, wish her well in her whoring, and move on down the road.


----------



## Marduk

Step 1 in being a 'more masculine man:' don't listen to anyone that tells you that you're not good enough except for yourself. Cultivate your own definition of success, make a plan to go after it, and then execute it. If you need feedback on something you're doing (like clothes and whatnot), surround yourself with cool, smart, outspoken women that will tell you their opinion - but don't overgeneralize their feedback. Don't listen to anything that uses the terms 'hypergamy,' 'negging,' 'evolutionary biology,' 'the red pill,' or anything that broad brushes what all women or men are like.

There is no step 2.


----------



## .335487

jakeskate said:


> I am a small guy. 5'7" 140lbs. i am 37y/o. I am a trained Muy tai fighter and dabbled in brazilian Ju Jitsu in my early 20's
> I am very athletic and coordinated. also a musician and industrial mechanic. I can fix anything.
> I am a skateboarder, surfer, snowboarder, dirtbike rider. I am cut and muscular. I used to go to the gym all the time but got busy. I mainly have core strength and agility. not a big bulky guy. more of the ninja type


Doesn't really sound like a masculinity issue. It does sound like a woman that has lost respect for you as a person. Why are you trying to win her back? You know she doesn't have your back when the time comes.

Is she like some sort of crazy woman that thinks that you don't love her if you don't smack her around once in a while or something?


----------



## Wolfman1968

jlg07 said:


> @Wolfman1968, just have to say .... LOVE your location. Were you walking through the streets of SoHo in the rain?



Yup! With a Chinese menu in my hand.


----------



## jakeskate

I have been indifferent around her the last couple of days and she is again pouring it on thick. She kept telling me yesterday while i am at work that she wishes that i was there.... with a boner.... blah blah blah... and she keeps picturing me naked. She told me she loved me 4 times in less than 15 mins last night. I know what she's trying to do but i can't let it get to me. It's really tough. I have been conditioned for so long and almost seems like brainwash. I understand and agree with what mostly everyone is saying here. I am planning on divorce but based on the business crap I have to deal with to get out of her bad financial mistake that has affected me and put our house on the line I have to live with this woman and put up with her crap for a bit longer that's the hard part. I am finding out that its going to be really difficult to prove adultery in this state and will most likely have to pay alimony. I wont be able to afford to wipe my ass if that happens let alone afford child support, mortgage payment, utilities and other living expenses. She knows she needs to get a job and fast! that will help a little bit. Just very immersed in this heavy pain of the realization that this woman duped me for so long. Mostly mad at myself for letting it get to this point.


----------



## farsidejunky

jakeskate said:


> I am truly impressed by all of the great advice and hard truth's y'all are pointing out to me. I had a little experiment this weekend and it was very telling and brought me some clarity along with the things everyone on here is saying. I want to thank all of you for taking the time to smack me around with some reality.
> 
> 
> 
> I have figured out that she has high narcissistic traits and she is a master manipulator. It all just hit me last night. This has nothing to do with me or any of my flaws (which i do have). When i am distant and indifferent she is all of a sudden very concerned and inquisitive about my motives. When i play her game and tell her i love her and give attention and affection, she is cold and distant and irritable. Almost annoyed by me or anything that i say. The second i stop (and it is literally in seconds) she's all concerned and affectionate again.
> 
> 
> 
> Saturday she put on some cute panties and bra and basically made it clear she wanted to have sex. we started down that road and pulled out her little vibrator toy. I asked to go down on her while I was using the toy on her and she said NO! This wasn't for my pleasure it was for hers but i honestly like giving oral to a woman. Especially my wife of 10+ years. I told her "You suck" when she told me no and immediately shut it down! then we argued about my inadequacies in the past in the bedroom. which is shocking because she talks about how i have the best penis on the planet and we fit together like a glove. Also when we have sex, she always talks about how earth shattering it is. I'm telling you this is a ****ing roller coaster.
> 
> 
> 
> I have spent this morning looking at articles and watching video's about narcissism and manipulation and she is text book. not every single trait but most. She always seems threatened when i seek advice about stuff, like i am going to connect the dots of what she truly is.
> 
> 
> 
> So back to the weekend, she is annoyed and cold and distant. Quieter than normal. Her mom brought the kids back from her house from the holidays and boom! affectionate, loving, attentive and sexual. Then its bed time. she likes to stay up and watch tv til around 2am. i go to sleep about 11pm. she is back to being cold, distant and annoyed when i touch her or talk to her. she tells me "go to sleep" or when i touch her she automatically says "we're not having sex tonight" not like that was my intent at all. Like i said, I was just conducting a little experiment. It's clear what i need to do but on the divorce front she knows it's coming and i'm finding out a after meeting with the attorney, i'm going to have to pay alimony because i cannot prove adultery. My attorney said he might be able to work around it with a confession or signed affidavit but we'll have to see. This **** is crazy and i can't believe i've been such a fool for so long


 @Uptown.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## arbitrator

*My advise? Just be yourself and remain confident in it ~ self confidence is not only alluring, but sexy as well!*


----------



## jakeskate

farsidejunky said:


> jakeskate said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am truly impressed by all of the great advice and hard truth's y'all are pointing out to me. I had a little experiment this weekend and it was very telling and brought me some clarity along with the things everyone on here is saying. I want to thank all of you for taking the time to smack me around with some reality.
> 
> 
> 
> I have figured out that she has high narcissistic traits and she is a master manipulator. It all just hit me last night. This has nothing to do with me or any of my flaws (which i do have). When i am distant and indifferent she is all of a sudden very concerned and inquisitive about my motives. When i play her game and tell her i love her and give attention and affection, she is cold and distant and irritable. Almost annoyed by me or anything that i say. The second i stop (and it is literally in seconds) she's all concerned and affectionate again.
> 
> 
> 
> Saturday she put on some cute panties and bra and basically made it clear she wanted to have sex. we started down that road and pulled out her little vibrator toy. I asked to go down on her while I was using the toy on her and she said NO! This wasn't for my pleasure it was for hers but i honestly like giving oral to a woman. Especially my wife of 10+ years. I told her "You suck" when she told me no and immediately shut it down! then we argued about my inadequacies in the past in the bedroom. which is shocking because she talks about how i have the best penis on the planet and we fit together like a glove. Also when we have sex, she always talks about how earth shattering it is. I'm telling you this is a ****ing roller coaster.
> 
> 
> 
> I have spent this morning looking at articles and watching video's about narcissism and manipulation and she is text book. not every single trait but most. She always seems threatened when i seek advice about stuff, like i am going to connect the dots of what she truly is.
> 
> 
> 
> So back to the weekend, she is annoyed and cold and distant. Quieter than normal. Her mom brought the kids back from her house from the holidays and boom! affectionate, loving, attentive and sexual. Then its bed time. she likes to stay up and watch tv til around 2am. i go to sleep about 11pm. she is back to being cold, distant and annoyed when i touch her or talk to her. she tells me "go to sleep" or when i touch her she automatically says "we're not having sex tonight" not like that was my intent at all. Like i said, I was just conducting a little experiment. It's clear what i need to do but on the divorce front she knows it's coming and i'm finding out a after meeting with the attorney, i'm going to have to pay alimony because i cannot prove adultery. My attorney said he might be able to work around it with a confession or signed affidavit but we'll have to see. This **** is crazy and i can't believe i've been such a fool for so long
> 
> 
> 
> @Uptown.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

how do i confront her? how do i articulate to her that i have figured it out? of course she's going to blow up and deny deny deny! She texted me and said 'Love you' and i just glazed over it. se sent a picture of the dogs and the cat all laying together and i called them free loaders. She came back with "you missed the part where i said I love you" Ugh!WTF


----------



## jakeskate

arbitrator said:


> *My advise? Just be yourself and remain confident in it ~ self confidence is not only alluring, but sexy as well!*


Makes sense. I am trying to get that back. It's been tarnished and taken from me by her for so long. I'm lost on where to begin. I'm still in so much pain emotionally it's really hard to see and think clearly.


----------



## ConanHub

jakeskate said:


> Makes sense. I am trying to get that back. It's been tarnished and taken from me by her for so long. I'm lost on where to begin. I'm still in so much pain emotionally it's really hard to see and think clearly.


Yeah. Get emotional and mental help. You don't need to work on your manliness at the moment.

When you're in a better place, we can talk about your physical math. Right now it is your relation equation that doesn't add up.


----------



## Marduk

jakeskate said:


> how do i confront her? how do i articulate to her that i have figured it out? of course she's going to blow up and deny deny deny! She texted me and said 'Love you' and i just glazed over it. se sent a picture of the dogs and the cat all laying together and i called them free loaders. She came back with "you missed the part where i said I love you" Ugh!WTF


You have said you are divorcing her.

So there is literally only one conversation you need to have with her:

"Wife, I'm divorcing you. Here's my lawyer's number, everything goes through him from this point forward. Sleep somewhere else - preferably not our house but certainly not our bedroom. It's now mine. Good day."


----------



## StillSearching

ConanHub said:


> @jakeskate
> 
> What type of physical specimen are you?
> 
> I'll focus on giving you advise on this front.
> 
> What is your height, weight age?
> 
> How athletic or muscular are you.
> 
> 
> It is amazing, how an inch or two increase in shoulder width combined with an inch or two decrease in waist size combined with thighs that are a little thicker and an ass that is a little tighter and shaped, affects female attraction and respect from fellow men.
> 
> It doesn't take too long for some decent results but it does take some commitment to exercise and diet.


Conan is dead on. That's the easiest, fastest way to a better life, all around.
Hit the gym.


----------



## Numb26

StillSearching said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jakeskate
> 
> What type of physical specimen are you?
> 
> I'll focus on giving you advise on this front.
> 
> What is your height, weight age?
> 
> How athletic or muscular are you.
> 
> 
> It is amazing, how an inch or two increase in shoulder width combined with an inch or two decrease in waist size combined with thighs that are a little thicker and an ass that is a little tighter and shaped, affects female attraction and respect from fellow men.
> 
> It doesn't take too long for some decent results but it does take some commitment to exercise and diet.
> 
> 
> 
> Conan is dead on. That's the easiest, fastest way to a better life, all around.
> Hit the gym.
Click to expand...

This is so true!! Since I have been separated and hitting the gym I have lost close to 50 lbs and I can tell you that the looks you get are the best. It's all about not being soft


----------



## FeministInPink

Numb26 said:


> This is so true!! Since I have been separated and hitting the gym I have lost close to 50 lbs and I can tell you that the looks you get are the best. It's all about not being soft


Not to mention the way if affects your body chemistry in a positive way. It makes you happier, helps stabilize moods, gives you more energy, helps you deal with stress. It's a good thing!


----------



## talesofthe-twofoldmother

I mean there are many things you can do and change in your life to be more masculine but... you did not cause your Wife to be unfaithful that was her own decision and personal choice... You all came together for a reason and She desired you in the beginning 

Do not lose yourself trying to please her by being someone you are not. 

I noticed in some of the above responses you said she liked buying old antiques etc.. maybe start creating a dynamic where you can assist her in refurbishing things, complimenting a choice of hers and helping her make decisions on things. 

Best of luck to you and yours.


----------



## Rob_1

Quote: @talesofthe-twofoldmother said: I noticed in some of the above responses you said she liked buying old antiques etc.. maybe start creating a dynamic where you can assist her in refurbishing things, complimenting a choice of hers and helping her make decisions on things.
This would apply if the OP were to be seeking to preserve his marriage, but after all that his wife has done to him and the marriage, and him trying to be "more masculine" per his thread title, preserving his marriage would be the least masculine action to do. This would make him an accepting cuckold, not a very masculine thing to do.


----------



## .335487

arbitrator said:


> *My advise? Just be yourself and remain confident in it ~ self confidence is not only alluring, but sexy as well!*


Some come chasing, with "I love you"s when you start looking elsewhere. Wish it weren't so.


----------



## Uptown

@*Farside*, thanks for the call-out. 



> *She has high narcissistic traits and she is a master manipulator.*


Perhaps so, Jake. But you also seem to agree with Benbutton's view that your wife is primarily exhibiting strong BPD traits, together with some narcissistic traits. If BPD is the primary issue, however, you should be seeing 5 key warning signs you have not yet mentioned.

The first is a strong abandonment fear. I therefore ask whether, a few months into your relationship, she started showing strong jealousy over harmless events -- or tried to isolate you away from close friends and family members? She would view your spending time with friends/family as your choosing THEM over HER. Moreover, she would HATE being alone by herself.

Second, you would be seeing her rely heavily on black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me") and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction. Because she also uses B-W thinking in judging HERSELF, she would rarely acknowledge making a mistake or having a flaw.

Doing so would imply, in her mind, she is "all bad." She thus would blame nearly all misfortunes/mistakes on you and view herself as "The Victim." Moreover, this B-W thinking also would be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you ALWAYS..." and "you NEVER...."

Third, you would not see her expressing her anger to total strangers (e.g., road rage against strangers). Rather, her outbursts and temper tantrums almost exclusively would be expressed against a close loved one (i.e., against YOU or her parents).

Fourth, you often would see her flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're oftentimes walking on eggshells. Such flips would occur in 10 seconds in response to some minor thing you say or do. 

Fifth, she would have loved you intensely at the beginning of your marriage, albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love. (In contrast, a full-blown narcissist would be incapable of loving you at all.) Have you been seeing strong occurrences of all 5 of these red flags? 

If so, I would suggest you take a look at my more complete list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar and you have questions, I would be glad to join *Farside*, *Benbutton*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you.


----------



## Girl_power

jakeskate said:


> how do i confront her? how do i articulate to her that i have figured it out? of course she's going to blow up and deny deny deny! She texted me and said 'Love you' and i just glazed over it. se sent a picture of the dogs and the cat all laying together and i called them free loaders. She came back with "you missed the part where i said I love you" Ugh!WTF




Why are you afraid of her? Who cares if she gets mad, she’s a terrible women. You should be able to tell her bluntly to her face what the problem is. You broke our vows and you constantly disrespect me. The end. No need to discuss further. She doesn’t deserve an explanation. And she will get mad and try to defend her position but just stay calm and shrug your shoulders and say... it doesn’t matter. And don’t engage with her. 

And the end of the day, your a good man and she’s a terrible wife. Actions speak louder than words, you don’t need to explain anything to her. Just be above that. Continue to be a good person, but that line is drawn and her actions determined her fate. 

I find that when you do the right thing, you don’t have to respond to bull crap.


----------



## jakeskate

@Uptown You hit the nail on the head. All of the examples in the link you provided are pretty spot on with a few minor exceptions. I went to a counseling session last week by myself and the counselor thinks its a combo of that and depression. Nothing I do is good enough and i am overly criticized. The counselor said it sounds like it must be pretty lonely for me. no one has ever pointed that out before


----------



## Uptown

> *Uptown, you hit the nail on the head.*


No, that honor goes to @*Benbutton* (#44 above) and @*Farsidejunky* (# 60). All I did was to describe the many BPD behaviors you likely would be seeing. I'm glad to hear you found the information helpful.



> *I am divorcing her!*


Jake, if she is a pwBPD, her greatest fear is abandonment. This means the divorce process almost certainly will get very nasty very quickly. I therefore suggest you read the book, _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder._



> *i can't believe i've been such a fool for so long.*


You look like a genius compared to me. Whereas you filed for divorce after only 10 years, it took me 15 years to do the same with my BPD exW.



> *She has anxiety and depression issues also.*


Those are to be expected if she is a pwBPD. A 2008 study of 35,000 American adults found that, of the group of female pwBPD, 81% also have a co-occurring anxiety disorder and 80% also have a mood disorder such as depression. 



> *She's playing the victim card.*


A pwBPD is too emotionally immature to have developed a strong sense of self. She therefore usually does not have a feeling that she knows who she is. To the extent she has any lasting long-term sense of identity at all it is the false self image of being "The Victim." Always "The Victim." 

This means that -- in order to "validate" that false self image -- she will perceive you as playing one of two roles. When she is splitting you white, she will perceive of you as "The rescuer," i.e., the man who arrived to save her from unhappiness. In this role, you are validating her false self image because your efforts to rescue her implies that she must be "The Victim" who needs saving. 

When she is splitting you black, however, she will perceive of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of nearly every misfortune and unhappiness to befall her. As strange as it seems, you are playing an important role as long as you allow her to think of you as "The Perpertrator." It satisfies her powerful need to validate her false self image as "The Victim." This is the primary reason that the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled, _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me_.


----------



## hilariouslaughter

Uptown said:


> @*Farside*, thanks for the call-out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *She has high narcissistic traits and she is a master manipulator.*
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps so, Jake. But you also seem to agree with Benbutton's view that your wife is primarily exhibiting strong BPD traits, together with some narcissistic traits. If BPD is the primary issue, however, you should be seeing 5 key warning signs you have not yet mentioned.
> 
> The first is a strong abandonment fear. I therefore ask whether, a few months into your relationship, she started showing strong jealousy over harmless events -- or tried to isolate you away from close friends and family members? She would view your spending time with friends/family as your choosing THEM over HER. Moreover, she would HATE being alone by herself.
> 
> Second, you would be seeing her rely heavily on black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me") and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction. Because she also uses B-W thinking in judging HERSELF, she would rarely acknowledge making a mistake or having a flaw.
> 
> Doing so would imply, in her mind, she is "all bad." She thus would blame nearly all misfortunes/mistakes on you and view herself as "The Victim." Moreover, this B-W thinking also would be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you ALWAYS..." and "you NEVER...."
> 
> Third, you would not see her expressing her anger to total strangers (e.g., road rage against strangers). Rather, her outbursts and temper tantrums almost exclusively would be expressed against a close loved one (i.e., against YOU or her parents).
> 
> Fourth, you often would see her flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're oftentimes walking on eggshells. Such flips would occur in 10 seconds in response to some minor thing you say or do.
> 
> Fifth, she would have loved you intensely at the beginning of your marriage, albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love. (In contrast, a full-blown narcissist would be incapable of loving you at all.) Have you been seeing strong occurrences of all 5 of these red flags?
> 
> If so, I would suggest you take a look at my more complete list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar and you have questions, I would be glad to join *Farside*, *Benbutton*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you.
Click to expand...

 Are you a licensed therapist, and if so, is this woman you have never met and only read a few posts about your patient?


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## jakeskate

@Uptown Holy crap dude! it's all becoming so clear. We had another argument the other night that stemmed from me asking a simple yes or no question. she proceeded to answer it with 5 other questions and then turned into a major blow out. And then after it is all said and done, I'm the one who has to apologize, eat some crow and be in the doghouse because of the "hurtful" things i said. Also she always falls back on the I'm interrupting her all the time when it is quite the opposite in reality. I'm done fighting. i really appreciate all of you on this thread that have some great insight about things. It's just a really hard emotional blow that i have wasted so much of my life in a hopeless relationship. overly criticized and underappreciated the entire time.


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## hilariouslaughter

jakeskate said:


> @Uptown Holy crap dude! it's all becoming so clear. We had another argument the other night that stemmed from me asking a simple yes or no question. she proceeded to answer it with 5 other questions and then turned into a major blow out. And then after it is all said and done, I'm the one who has to apologize, eat some crow and be in the doghouse because of the "hurtful" things i said. Also she always falls back on the I'm interrupting her all the time when it is quite the opposite in reality. I'm done fighting. i really appreciate all of you on this thread that have some great insight about things. It's just a really hard emotional blow that i have wasted so much of my life in a hopeless relationship. overly criticized and underappreciated the entire time.


PLEASE don't assume a stranger's diagnosis.


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## jorgegene

hilariouslaughter said:


> PLEASE don't assume a stranger's diagnosis.


I dont think he's doing any diagnosing.

I think he's talking about traits and tendencies and patterns that may fall within a certain spectrum of behavior.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

In marriage, disagreements are inevitable but disrespect is optional-Dave Willis


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## Uptown

hilariouslaughter said:


> Are you a licensed therapist, and if so, is this woman you have never met and only read a few posts about your patient?


Hilarious, I am not describing the behavior of Jake's wife. I've never met her and thus have never seen her behavior. Rather, I am simply describing the warning signs (i.e., symptoms) for BPD. I am leaving it up to Jake to decide whether those BPD traits apply strongly to his wife's behavior.


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## Uptown

hilariouslaughter said:


> PLEASE don't assume a stranger's diagnosis.


As @Jorgegene explains above, nobody on this thread has claimed to diagnose Jake's wife. You're confusing _"spotting warning signs"_ with _"making a diagnosis."_ There is a world of difference between the two.

Hundreds of mental health centers list the symptoms for BPD and other disorders on their public websites to encourage the lay public to learn how to spot warning signs. They know that, when laymen are able to spot these warning signs, they are far more likely to see a professional to obtain a diagnosis. And they will do so more quickly.

Likewise, hundreds of hospitals and medical centers post the warning signs for numerous diseases on their public websites. For example, they state that the warning signs for breast cancer are a lump in the breast, nipple discharge, swelling of the breast, and pain in the breast. Hence, if Jake were to tell me that his wife is exhibiting those symptoms, I could tell him -- from only a sentence of two listing those traits -- that he is describing the classic warning signs for breast cancer. As Jorgene explained, spotting warning signs does NOT constitute a diagnosis.


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## Rob_1

@hilariouslaughter: you are either very confused or not comprehending what @Uptown is posting. Please, re-read. He is not giving a diagnosis, he is giving a list of the warning signs.


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## hilariouslaughter

Rob_1 said:


> @hilariouslaughter: you are either very confused or not comprehending what @Uptown is posting. Please, re-read. He is not giving a diagnosis, he is giving a list of the warning signs.


I have read so many articles lately like, 10 Signs You're Dating a Narcissist, and such. Half my female friends have decided their sexes have NPD. 

Some people are just crappy. Crappy doesn't require psychiatric initials.

Once we label someone we A. Start excusing them or B. Excuse iurselves


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## She'sStillGotIt

jakeskate said:


> She is turning it around as we speak. i and i recognize that i have the upper hand in the relationship now. I am just trying to put in some work and routine so we dont fall into this rut again. BTW thank you.


LOL. No she's not. She's just making it *appear* as though she's 'changed' in order to appease you - because the selfish witch doesn't want to give up what you PROVIDE her financially. How can you not SEE that?

You want "manly" tips? My first would be, divorce her ass. Show yourself the *RESPECT* you deserve.

A true man RESPECTS himself first, before all else.


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## She'sStillGotIt

jakeskate said:


> @*Benbutton* I am not leaving my house and i can't force her to leave either.


Big deal - that's a legal issue. It DOESN'T mean you pathetically beg this witch to allow you to pleasure her sexually. Good God. I'm starting to think you're pulling our collective legs here.


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## She'sStillGotIt

hilariouslaughter said:


> I have read so many articles lately like, 10 Signs You're Dating a Narcissist, and such. Half my female friends have decided their sexes have NPD.
> 
> Some people are just crappy. Crappy doesn't require psychiatric initials.
> 
> Once we label someone we A. Start excusing them or B. Excuse iurselves


I agree *100%*.

If I had a dime for every, "your husband is a sex addict!" or "he's a porn addict!" or "he's/she's a Narcissist" or "he/she is bipolar/Borderline Personality/ADHD" diagnosis I've read on a message board, I'd own my own island by how.

I'm not sure why everyone always wants _*SO *_badly to put a label on what really, in a lot of these cases, just amounts to nothing more than selfish, **** behavior, but I'm assuming it's kind of par for the course now because we live in such a therapy-saturated society, now.


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## VladDracul

Jake my man, suffice it to say I don't have a complete "buy in" of the story you're putting out there. You seem to have a lot of opposing arguments for the advice you receive. Could be you're just as PW as you want us to perceive you are. At any rate to get to your desire for tips to be more masculine, you ain't never gonna get there by trying to be more masculine to please women. If you ain't wanting to be more masculine because you're a male, trying it to impress others is too much of a non-masculine start. 
Forget about this chick coming back and fawning over you when/if you change. Once a woman loses interest and even more important, respect for you, it never comes back. Take my word for it. 
Oh, here's a tip. When you tell a chick you're not going along with her taking a trip without you, GNO, et cetera and she digs you, she believe you're doing it because you love her and looking out for her. When she don't dig you, you're a controlling SOB.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

She'sStillGotIt said:


> hilariouslaughter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read so many articles lately like, 10 Signs You're Dating a Narcissist, and such. Half my female friends have decided their sexes have NPD.
> 
> Some people are just crappy. Crappy doesn't require psychiatric initials.
> 
> Once we label someone we A. Start excusing them or B. Excuse iurselves
> 
> 
> 
> I agree *100%*.
> 
> If I had a dime for every, "your husband is a sex addict!" or "he's a porn addict!" or "he's/she's a Narcissist" or "he/she is bipolar/Borderline Personality/ADHD" diagnosis I've read on a message board, I'd own my own island by how.
> 
> I'm not sure why everyone always wants _*SO *_badly to put a label on what really, in a lot of these cases, just amounts to nothing more than selfish, **** behavior, but I'm assuming it's kind of par for the course now because we live in such a therapy-saturated society, now.
Click to expand...

There is no pill or 12 steps for garden variety selfishness...just more frustration. That's why.


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## Marduk

jakeskate said:


> @Uptown Holy crap dude! it's all becoming so clear. We had another argument the other night that stemmed from me asking a simple yes or no question. she proceeded to answer it with 5 other questions and then turned into a major blow out. And then after it is all said and done, I'm the one who has to apologize, eat some crow and be in the doghouse because of the "hurtful" things i said. Also she always falls back on the I'm interrupting her all the time when it is quite the opposite in reality. I'm done fighting. i really appreciate all of you on this thread that have some great insight about things. It's just a really hard emotional blow that i have wasted so much of my life in a hopeless relationship. overly criticized and underappreciated the entire time.


She does it because it works. 

What does she get out of this behaviour? Whatever it is, take it away.


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## bandit.45

It takes two people to try to make a marriage work. Right now there is only one person trying.


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## *Deidre*

jakeskate said:


> I am divorcing her! This is for myself. I would have not let her cheat even once if i had a little more self respect. Trying to get some tips for when the divorce is final. Trying to avoid even meeting another woman like this.


Not all women will respond to you in the same way. Your wife and you may have simply been incompatible, yet she made you feel like it was somehow your fault for her cheating. 

Setting boundaries with new women you meet, and sticking to them will show confidence in not only yourself, but to the women whom you're getting involved with. And find the right woman for you, because then, it honestly will fall into place for you. Pretending to be ''manly'' in one way or the other for different women, will not feel authentic to you. Just find yourself again, the man who got lost in your marriage. He's in there, and that is who you should be. 

Good luck with your dating adventures.


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## jakeskate

*Deidre* said:


> Not all women will respond to you in the same way. Your wife and you may have simply been incompatible, yet she made you feel like it was somehow your fault for her cheating.
> 
> Setting boundaries with new women you meet, and sticking to them will show confidence in not only yourself, but to the women whom you're getting involved with. And find the right woman for you, because then, it honestly will fall into place for you. Pretending to be ''manly'' in one way or the other for different women, will not feel authentic to you. Just find yourself again, the man who got lost in your marriage. He's in there, and that is who you should be.
> 
> Good luck with your dating adventures.


Very well said and thank you! I just found a book called, "How to Be a 3% Man" by Corey Wayne. The title is a bit misleading but it has a bunch of great lessons and goes into the science and polarity that men and women are supposed to have. Wish i would have had this resources back when i was old enough to first start dating. Anyone reading this thread should give it a read. I bought the kindle version and am listening to it on audible. The author also has a ton of youtube video newsletters pertaining to the subject matter in the book. He has written a few others that i have on my list.


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## Marduk

jakeskate said:


> Very well said and thank you! I just found a book called, "How to Be a 3% Man" by Corey Wayne.


Amazon description: "Dear Friend, This book teaches you the hidden secrets to completely understand women..."

And that's as far as I got, because I can already tell it's ****e. C'mon, man.

Not all women are the same. Are all men the same? No. Don't go for simplistic thinking like this. If you want to learn how to better yourself, then that's good. But this isn't the way to better yourself. This is the way to give you the illusion that you think you understand women, when you don't.

Make a list of ways you want to be better. Physical, mental, spiritual, whatever.

Then make a list of things you could do to improve in those areas. Then... do those things. That's it. Focus on small improvements over a long period of time.

And if you want to understand women, then the best way to do so is to go and form good, close, honest relationships with a bunch of women that are awesome and ask them about themselves. You'll find variability and complexity and richness that comes with all human beings, not in some book about 'the hidden secrets to completely understand women.'

If you want to _actually_ grow, then learn to fear the easy path - because it's usually the lazy, convenient, and wrong path. The hard path is more often the true path.


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## *Deidre*

jakeskate said:


> Very well said and thank you! I just found a book called, "How to Be a 3% Man" by Corey Wayne. The title is a bit misleading but it has a bunch of great lessons and goes into the science and polarity that men and women are supposed to have. Wish i would have had this resources back when i was old enough to first start dating. Anyone reading this thread should give it a read. I bought the kindle version and am listening to it on audible. The author also has a ton of youtube video newsletters pertaining to the subject matter in the book. He has written a few others that i have on my list.


Beware there are different ideas out there that try to portray ''alpha'' men as being rude towards women. Or banging women, and then dumping them...never letting women ''get the upper hand.'' There's a lot of bad advice for men it seems, when it comes to defining masculinity and how they should approach women when dating. So tread carefully.


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## BarbedFenceRider

https://www.artofmanliness.com/

Thoughtful and inspiring. You might like this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

BarbedFenceRider said:


> https://www.artofmanliness.com/
> 
> Thoughtful and inspiring. You might like this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I * LOVE * THIS * WEBSITE 

Seriously, I think it should be required reading. When women say that want a "real man" and guys throw up their hands, like "WTH does that mean? I have a penis, so I'm a real man!" The answer is No, to most women, just having a penis doesn't make you a real man... a lot of guys could benefit from reading this website to learn what a "real man" is. In my definition, it means maturity, confidence, handling you shiz like a boss, being well-groomed and a sharp dresser, having manners, showing respect for others and yourself, etc.

ETA: If my XH was a regular reader of this site, took its advice and followed its lead, and worked on developing himself, I wouldn't be divorced.


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## Hiner112

FeministInPink said:


> I * LOVE * THIS * WEBSITE
> 
> Seriously, I think it should be required reading. When women say that want a "real man" and guys throw up their hands, like "WTH does that mean? I have a penis, so I'm a real man!" The answer is No, to most women, just having a penis doesn't make you a real man... a lot of guys could benefit from reading this website to learn what a "real man" is. In my definition, it means maturity, confidence, handling you shiz like a boss, being well-groomed and a sharp dresser, having manners, showing respect for others and yourself, etc.
> 
> ETA: If my XH was a regular reader of this site, took its advice and followed its lead, and worked on developing himself, I wouldn't be divorced.


I would be careful using the phrase "real man". Lots of people use it to endorse (or as an excuse for) being toxic. For many it means being belligerent, arrogant, entitled, and dumb. I don't know for sure what the alternative would be.

For instance, this was an exchange I had gong through school:

Girl: Boys are idiots.

Me: Hey now.

Girl: Don't worry <name>, you're a genius not a boy.

Me: ... Wait, what?

*shrug*


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## JustTheWife

*Deidre* said:


> Beware there are different ideas out there that try to portray ''alpha'' men as being rude towards women. Or banging women, and then dumping them...never letting women ''get the upper hand.'' There's a lot of bad advice for men it seems, when it comes to defining masculinity and how they should approach women when dating. So tread carefully.


Completely agree. From what I've seen (i'm certainly no expert), there are some good points in these methods and some very toxic ones. Like the blue/red pill stuff. Very toxic but for example, many men do let themselves go - gain weight, lose confidence, physically inactive and unhealthy, drink too much, etc. So you need to take the good parts of these different ideas and be your own man.

Men and women both can be very strong. But they are strong in different ways. That's what makes it so interesting.


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## FeministInPink

Hiner112 said:


> I would be careful using the phrase "real man". Lots of people use it to endorse (or as an excuse for) being toxic. For many it means being belligerent, arrogant, entitled, and dumb. I don't know for sure what the alternative would be.
> 
> 
> 
> For instance, this was an exchange I had gong through school:
> 
> 
> 
> Girl: Boys are idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> Me: Hey now.
> 
> 
> 
> Girl: Don't worry <name>, you're a genius not a boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Me: ... Wait, what?
> 
> 
> 
> *shrug*


I know. My definition of a real man is clearly different, as evidenced by my post. And most women I know, they have the same definition as I do.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

Grow a beard? :laugh:


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## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> Grow a beard? :laugh:


And drink LOTS of beer!>


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