# The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

The email I have been expecting has arrived tonight (copied below). I am dying inside and though I should have been prepared with what to say to this, I am now at a loss. How can he still profess to these feelings (crying, telling me I will always be in his heart?), yet he could not, would not lift a finger in these 9 months apart to give our marriage a chance, not even a single MC session after 7 years together?

I am heartbroken that he did not want to try harder to save the marriage, and could really use counsel as to how I should respond, if at all. There is and has not been anyone else, I am very certain. But it seems at this point undignified to resist in the least? Needless to say, I am disappointed to be having this discussion with him via email -- how cowardly. Could he not have the grace do this in person or at the very least on the phone after all we have meant to each other?

By way of reply? How about: "Thank you, M. I deeply regret all the pain and just want you to be happy, too. I will always love you as well."

Thank you for any words of wisdom on handling this God awful moment. It HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Mourning, - A12

THE FINAL DAGGER: 
"Saw from Facebook that you were out of town last week and wanted to drop you a note. Hope you went somewhere warm; the weather here was absolutely terrible. Windy, cold, rainy, flurries...the beach would have been ideal.
I was at C___ for lunch today and saw G___ [neighbor and close friend]. I was having lunch with Eric ___. I took him there a couple of weeks ago and it is one of his favorite lunch spots now.
Our Caps actually won a few games last week and looked good in the process. They returned to form last night; I'm afraid they are not going to do much this year. In this strike shortened season, this is the year to stink if you are going to. This year's draft is pretty deep so maybe they will get a highly rated prospect by finishing near the bottom.

Taking you to the Caps game a few weeks ago was not a good idea. I could tell that you were going through some emotional struggles and I'm sorry for inviting you out. You had mentioned it was like opening the wound again and I know you are tired of the roller coaster ride of emotions that our separation has caused. I have friends that got divorced and really hate their exes. As weird as that sounds, i think it must have been a lot easier for them. You will always be in my heart. I will always remember the good times. But I can't be married to you. 
That said, I know that being in limbo is the worst part. I wake up every day and the thought of our dying marriage is the first thing that pops into my head. It's not fair to keep dragging you along without any resolution or clarity. So I will do what has to be done. I cry more than you will ever know. I am not angry at you; I want you to find someone that will make you happy and be the man that I no longer am. 
m


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Better to just reply:

"Thank you. Goodbye."

????? I hate that he did not have the courage and strength and love to stand by the woman he married, and I do not know how I will be able to bear this... 

God help me - A12


----------



## BFGuru (Jan 28, 2013)

Don't reply at all.


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Don't reply...he is fishing to see if he still has control over your emotions....

Please...for your own well being, don't reply  you can do this


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

A12,hi and I'm sorry.Is this 100% sure now,because if I remember correctly he reached this point last year,or is it just that the waiting period is up? At this point I think you just need to say whatever is in your heart that you want to say.You were in such a better place last year as far as acceptance.Find that strength again in your family and friends.I don't have to tell you how important it is to reach out to all the people who support you.Though not unexpected,I can understand your pain but in awhile you'll remember that in the end and with time "this to shall pass" as they say.My prayers and thoughts go out to you A12.Please take care of yourself.

TBT


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you for the kind replies! I will not say anything, because I have nothing to say -- it cannot do me any good to let him know how much I hurt or am sorry or any other form of groveling. I have to dig deep, and stop making this harder on myself, I know it. But tonight I am in such pain I cannot sleep. And it sucks because I have to be up early for a White House event which is my first chance to hear our President speak in person, in this instance on the hazards of sequestration (for anyone who follows current events). I will be the most tired and haggard lady in the audience 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

Hope you've fallen asleep finally and are getting at least a little rest before your event this morning. 

Me personally, I would not be able to NOT reply to that e-mail. How the Caps may fare this year and inclement weather here in DC, and oh, yeah, BTW, I cry every day and can't be married to you. By email. 

Where I grew up we have a term for someone like that - sackless pigeon.


----------



## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Don't reply. Nah he's an azz hat. Take care of your business today. He's not worthy of a stroke of your finger..you have better things to do. 
Smile extra wide today...have a spring in your step grab an iced coffee and a scone from a hottie...own your day. Make it happy...then check back here and tell me about it ! Don't forget to use ur Scentsy hand lotion or fav bod spay....:smthumbup:


----------



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Don't reply.
Is he having an A?
Sorry but this is cheaters talk. He's trying to ease his guilt by being nice to you.
Hope you are ok.
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks again, you guys. I did get about 4 hours sleep, which is better than nothing, and I do feel fortified by your kind replies -- I can't tell you how much it means to me  I am not going to respond, and will go about my day as Stella advises. You are right -- he is not worth this agony, and I should be thanking him for showing me that indeed, he is not the man I married. That guy is long gone, replaced by a shallow, disloyal jerk I don't recognize. The person he became is dead to me -- it is as if he never existed.

I dread having to have to have a final set of dealings with him in the coming months re: taxes and the divorce, but at least now I know the end of this limbo hell is in sight so I will finally be able to put it behind me and move on with my life. 

I loved him dearly and did my best. No regret in that -- I hope that now I will be better able to truly heal and start a new chapter.

Again, thank you all -- hope you have a great day!

Warmly, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Word!!! Photo from the WH event this morning, with first responders who would stand to lose their jobs if Congress doesn't do theirs -- he shook each and every one of their hands


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Cool. Alright, out with it, A12, you a cop? If so, my opinion of you's gone higher.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle, 

Not a cop, just a federal affairs manager for a medical professional society. These public servants were at the event with the President to help make the point that the budget sequester is not a responsible approach to deficit reduction, and if Congress does not act it will soon affect American life in hundreds of painful ways:
http://nyti.ms/Xb3lvd

Got my mind off my marital situation, at least. But the cold rainy day made me want to jet back to the beach -- brutal!!!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, A12, sounds like a great job and a worthy cause. Read the NYT article this morning with my sad bagel. But what a wondrous thig, you're in absolute misery over your dying marriage, and rightly so, but you go to the WH and meet the President. Gotta be some kinda Karma at work. 

It really was a crappy day, I had lunch with an old Air Force bud out in Tyson's today, he and I agreed it was time to pack it in and buy a taco stand in South Beach. 

I'm sorry for the pain you're going through. I know it's unspeakable.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Word!!! Photo from the WH event this morning, with first responders who would stand to lose their jobs if Congress doesn't do theirs -- he shook each and every one of their hands


You would never know he's actually the author of the sequester.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

LOL, Conrad, it is true -- we are having a Groundhog Day moment, a repeat of 2011 budget discussions, with basically the same dynamics and cast of characters (in terms of the key deciders) at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

Bullwinkle, I love your taco shack idea -- or maybe a shrimp boat, LOL! It is true, this was a great day to have something to preoccupy me -- I am just glad I did not spontaneously combust or burst into tears while at the WH event  While I am looking at positives, he also did me a favor by waiting until AFTER my vacation to drop the hammer, so I could enjoy my time at the beach.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

He did do you a favor by waiting. And yes, a shrimp boat. You keep hanging tough.


----------



## denisefire (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't know the whole story of your situation, but i get that you are hurting and your heart is broken in two. I may not be able to give you a solution because it sounds like he has his mind made up to end things. You said he has not tried to even visit a marriage c. In many cases and relationships couples grow apart and don't stay the same person you married, but they still have feelings of love because you have shared intimate parts of yourselves and treasured memories. He still loves you but says he can't be with you no more, why i don't know. Have you asked him this? Has he given you a straight answer? If he can't then he is hiding something from you. If he still loves you like he says then he will give a straight answer, and it might give you something to work off of and try to make sense of it all , and come to terms of whats happening. If he is not honest with you then he has replaced you with something or someone else. I don't know if that is the case but a strong possibility. If it turns out in the end the way it is, you need to value yourself as much as you felt you did in your marriage and realize that there is someone else who out there for you who will honor and cherish you. It is hard not to feel and hurt whats happening to you, but surrounding yourself with friends and family does help. Their may still be hope if he is honest with you . If it is meant to be things could still work out . If he still loves you and cares for you he should leave a crack of the door open for mending what was lost.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi denisefire - 

Thank you for your thougtful feedback. I do know why he left, and the reason he has been relectant to re-engage with attempting to heal the marriage. It is because am the one who screwed up big time. I betrayed my husband, not through and affair with another person, but by a re-currence of my alcoholism after more than a decade in recovery. It is uncomfortable for me to share about this, because of all the judgement and stigma atttached to alcoholism and addiction (especially for females). But at the risk of being judged, and as I did reveal in my earliest posts on TAM dating back to April, 2012, we had been happily married for 3 years and together for 5 when I had a horrible relapse that lasted for 2 years and took and awful toll on my marriage. I made the inexcusable mistake of becoming complacent about my resovery and I had stopped going to meetings -- which was the st up for relapse when I started a stressful new job. Because I had been in recovery for so long before and he had only ever known me as a recovering person, my husband became very resentful about my inability to stop again -- looking at it as an act of willful misconduct rather than "I need help to get sober again." Though I remained high functioning in terms of my career, it was basically the same as checking out of the marriage during those 2 years, until he finally gave me an ultimatum and I landed in a rehab in January, 2012. 

He left in April, 2012, about 2 months after my return from rehab, saying that he needed time and space to sort himself out, and not knowing if he could risk staying married to me, for fear that I would relapse again and destry our lives. This past year, I fought for my sobrierty, despite it being the most painful, stressful, anxious, depressing time of my life since he left. I take full responsiblity for what happened, and he knows that I am extremely remorseful and mortified by the harm I inflicted on the marriage, when all I ever wanted to do was love and honer this man with all my heart. So is basic issues are fear and lack of trust.

My family and friends thought his timing was odd -- why would he leave when I finally got better again and recomoitted to my recovery? But he was the only one who had to live with my problem and I cannot judge him for his reaction and reluctance to open his heart to me again, now that he has seen that dark side of me. Very similar, I suppose to betrayed spouses whose wives had an affair. Will they do it again? How can I ever trust them?

So at risk of putting it out there, that's the story. I do not know if he will ever let me build and earn trust again, or what it would take, beyond him seeing me staying committed to my recovery. Losing my marriage may well be a consequence I will have to pay for my failing, but it will not be healthy or useful for me to beat myself up about it forever. If he can't or won't get over this, then that is his right and I have to accept it. I have done everything in my power to express my remorse and desire to make amends, but cannot control the outcome, and have to face my consequences like an adult and carry on as best I can to rebuild and become a better person.

Interestingly, he emailed me yesterday out of the blue (and after the "divorce talk" email, to which I did not respond), to tell me "I have decided to attend an Al-Anon meeting to deal with my issues." I told him I thought this was a grerat idea, and applauded his courage and initiative in giving this a try to see if it can help him to hear from other men who have been in his shoes. I am not going to get my hopes up, but that is a big step for him, and something he has never previously been willing to consider. So we will see. It may be too, little too late for our marriage but at the very least I hope it may help him with his own healing.

Not easy for me to share this, but in the name of honesty that is the story.

Best, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow, A12. Bravo. Took a lot if guts to put that out there. 

Rooting for you, kid


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, Bullwinkle. So you see why we cannot judge my H too harshly -- because I am the shameful screw up who torpedoed my own marriage and happiness, when I had everything I ever wanted. My guilt and remorse are deep and intense, and a big part of what I am working on in recovery because it is so heard to forgive myself, if I ever can.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

I'm sorry. Can almost hear the anguish in your voice. I guess all you can do is to keep doing what you're doing - stay sober, try to forgive yourself.... I know, easier said than done. But maybe him going to Al Anon is a hopeful sign.... maybe like so many things in life, it just needs some time....

I've struggled with the booze too over the years, it contributed some to my separation, although my W a drinker too. From a family of heavy drinkers, I can remember my mother drinking straight vodka and smoking a cigarette while making us breakfast, finding ashes on my Lucky Charms. Nice, huh?

As I always say, hang tough.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, Bullwinkle. I appreciate your kindness and understanding. My failings as a human being at least do not have to define me as a person and make me more empathetic to the humanness of making mistakes, and hopefully learning from them.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Indeed


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OMG, my H has just called and asked if he could come over shortly. Said he was in the neighborhood visiting his Mom. Is this going to be to bring me the divorce papers to sign, or what? We'll see...


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Good luck


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, that was interesting :scratchhead: My H just came by for a visit, and I am really not sure what to make of it -- so I am not going to put any meaning or interpretation on it. No divorce papers, and the "D" word did not come up. He just wanted to talk, I guess, and he shared that he had ben to two (!!!) Al-Anon meetings (last night and tonight). He said that he had been feeling super depressed, which motivated him to go to the meetings. I think the meetings opened up something very vulnerable in him -- he cried telling me about it, and I tried to just listen and be supportive but detached and respectful of his process. We sat close together on the sofa, and had some affection (just arm around each other or hand on knee kind of thing). He did not say anything about wanting R, but neither did he bring up D, and when he left we hugged and he said "good to see you, talk soon."

So again I am going to follow the advice of all my friends and my AA sponsor, and keep the focus on my recovery and working my program -- and, as we say, "Let go and let God."

I told him I will keep him in my prayers, and he said he would do the same for me. I am grateful if is getting help for his healing, but am not going to get my hopes up about what any of this means or where it is headed (assuming he still intends D, unless he indicates otherwise, but meither can I let him pull my strings emotionally and dictate how I feel).

Steady as she goes, - A12


----------



## Kaya62003 (Jan 8, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Better to just reply:
> 
> "Thank you. Goodbye."
> 
> ...


Haha! I agree 100%
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Steady as she goes


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Well, that was interesting :scratchhead: My H just came by for a visit, and I am really not sure what to make of it -- so I am not going to put any meaning or interpretation on it. No divorce papers, and the "D" word did not come up. He just wanted to talk, I guess, and he shared that he had ben to two (!!!) Al-Anon meetings (last night and tonight). He said that he had been feeling super depressed, which motivated him to go to the meetings. I think the meetings opened up something very vulnerable in him -- he cried telling me about it, and I tried to just listen and be supportive but detached and respectful of his process. We sat close together on the sofa, and had some affection (just arm around each other or hand on knee kind of thing). He did not say anything about wanting R, but neither did he bring up D, and when he left we hugged and he said "good to see you, talk soon."
> 
> So again I am going to follow the advice of all my friends and my AA sponsor, and keep the focus on my recovery and working my program -- and, as we say, "Let go and let God."
> 
> ...


This has to go in the "good" column.

Congrats.


----------



## BFGuru (Jan 28, 2013)

Another vote for good.

Keep your chin up. Do you have a sponsor you can call in your weak moments?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, guys. Yes, I talk to my AA sponsor every day, and she is a rock for me (a fantastic woman who is 23 years sober and has also had her share of marriage ups and downs). My main coping tools are AA meetings, CrossFit, reaching out to friends and family, and volunteering at a nearby food pantry to get out of myself!

Trudging Lightly, - A12


----------



## denisefire (Dec 2, 2012)

Dear Awakening , I am touched that you took the time to open to me about what happened and why. I must applaud you and say i admire your strength to seek help for your addiction to alcohol . I told briefly about own marriage to my now deceased husband about his demons. Those demons were the same as yours. He was an addicted to alcohol and smoked like a fiend .
I was blinded by love when i met him and young , and did not realize at the time he was addicted. I loved him and stood by him , he was to able to function and hold a job. Things finally caught up to him the last five years of our marriage. He was in denial all those years and would never say out right he was or had a problem . It was very difficult at times to deal with his behaviour , the outburst of frustration, the verbal abuse. But he was very loving also, and i loved him so. He loved me more than anything on this earth besides his children, but could not bring himself to stop the abuse to himself or get help, he refused. All of his family and myself could not change it. I also i was too soft hearted to give him or else. I made a promise to myself that i would never get divorced again. I was also married before him with someone else for three years. My husband ron was devoted to me . There was no sex even for the last twenty years of our marriage due to smoking and drinking complications due to health issues. But marriage is more than sex. He was my best friend. He still was a husband and friend in other ways. I know he was disappointed in himself. In the last year of his life he tried to quit on his own , three times but lost the battle on his own, he would not seek help outside. Anyway you failed a couple of times but you picked yourself up and did not give up, and you should be proud of that. I feel your pain, and your husbands pain. I hope that seeking help to deal with his issues that he will able to understand how hard it is to overcome your addiction. And through your sobriety that he can begin to see how strong and willing you are to change your life around. Be strong and patience may prevail . Keep positive and your friends close.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Dear denisefire -

I am equally touched by your sharing your extremely moving love story and am so very sorry to hear of the tragic loss of your husband to the dreadful disease of addiction. Your love for each other despite it all, as well as your devotion and courage, is evident in your eloquent words, which brought me to tears. Thank you so much for your kind and caring support and the very powerful message of the fate that can await me if I should ever again become complacent about my recovery. I hope that you have received all the love and support you deserve to cope with your loss and the impact of living for so man years with a loved one who suffered from addiction. Nobody is perfect and everyone has their struggles -- the lucky among us get a chance to face our problems and turn our lives around. 

I am not going to get my hopes up about the possibility of my H coming around and opening his heart to me again. But we were once so deeply in love and like you and Ron, he was my best friend. I pray his path will lead him to healing and will continue to focus on my recovery and trust God with the outcome  

Thanks again for your profound message and for sharing your powerful story. 

Hugs, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Evening, A12. 

Just checking in. One day at a time, Sweet Jesus.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Good evening, Bullwinkle. A day at a time, indeed! Are you watchng the Caps game (I almost can't stand to watch though they are up 2-1 right now). Tonights CrossFit workout was a 5000 meter row. 23:04. I'll take it!

Hope you are hanging in there, too.

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, got Caps game on. Saw Ovechkin down in Georgetown last week, he was really drunk, lucky cops or the press didn't see it. 

Congrats on good workout. I swam laps today, very therapeutic for me, so quiet and peaceful. 

Hope you are able to sleep after good workout.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Morning, A12, just checking I, I've been so self-absorbed I've ignored others......

How you holding up?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle -

Thank you, how sweet of you with all you have going on. I have not heard a peep from my H since his visit Wednesday night, so trying to just let it be, and put my focus elsewhere. On my way to the Verizon Center to attend the Caps hockey game, then a massage and dinner with a friend. Olympic lifting workshop tomorrow. I can't complain!

Hope you are being good to yourself. Stay strong and keep us posted.

Cheers, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Sounds like a great plan,A12. Have fun. Go Caps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, no major update, but during the Caps game yesterday (which was awesome by the way -- Ovechkin hat trick, woot!!!), my H texted me commenting on the game and we had a little friendly back and forth texting. He asked if I was at the game, and I said "yes, are you?". He said, no he went Thursday night (with one of his buddies, which I already knew) and "have fun." So by way of affirming the positive, at least I pop into his mind in a not hostile way. Not hanging big hopes on him anymore, and just taking things a day at a time. I have not asked him if he is still thinking D, or if the door is back open even a tiny crack for R -- I would like to know what he's thinking, but it will not help me to ask, and from what I have seen it can change from day to day, so I may be in for another stretch of indefinite mixed signals. Who knows? 

Best I can do is tend to myself and my well being, keep my focus off of him, let go of the outcome and trust that things will work out the way they are supposed to.

Cheers, - Kim


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12, it does sound like the door is open maybe a crack.... I know, it's the limbo thing that is the hardest part. 

But it's clear that you are really trying to press on as best you can and take care of yourself, get out socially. Good plan. 

Hey, no pressure, but we're counting on you. 

Cheers - Jeff


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Had a good weekend, but I find Sunday nights hard. This is when we would be eating dinner together and cozy on the couch watching whatever was on TV. Now it is just me and the cats. Trying to get used to being "single" but I still feel more like a widow than anything else. Maybe it will be easier to break that bond I still feel if he finally divorces me? Sitting in the limbo and trying to stop missing him...to stop wishing and waiting and hoping for a breakthrough. 

I want do badly just to ask him: so are you still planning to divorce me or what, and what's the timeline here? But that is my anxiety talking -- it would not be helpful to push him in any way, and I know I have to respect his space and process. I'm sure it has been said here before, but it sucks when your spouse, the person you love, is holding all the cards.

Best, -A12


----------



## loveispatient (Jan 10, 2013)

It's very hard to be in limbo. I think most of us in that situation can attest to it. So hang in there... 

I've got my dog and two cats and I'm catching up on shows on DVR. It's tough being "single" when you're really not (still married) and hoping for your love to come back to you. 

But like they all say here, take care of YOU...  It's all we can do.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Evening, A12. Thanks for your kind words on my thread. 

I'm glad your weekend has been okay. Same fo me, Sunday nights are tough. Just a matter of weeks ago I was on the couch with WS watching Dexter and Homeland, holding hands, thinking R was imminent. 

I guess it all just goes to show you how fleeting love and happiness can be in this life.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Another teensy weensy, update. Today is my birthday, and my H sent me a short but nice e-mail wishing me a happy b-day, and saying he hopes I have fun tonight at the Caps game (ironically, I am going with his best friend's ex -- so we can be the "sexy exes" - LOL!). But he signed the note "Love, M." -- he has not signed off with "Love" in a LONG LOMG time (sometimes no closing salutation, sometimes "Sincerely" or "Best," sometimes "Hugs" -- but not "Love" in such a long while, it brought tears to my eyes. I know I can't put any significance on it, but whatever his intentions and however things end up, at least maybe he is inching ever so slightly closer to something resembling forgiveness.

Hope everyone has a great day!

Best, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Sounds the best birthday present ever, A12, a big old slice of forgiveness, maybe. 

Happy Birthday. Go Caps.


----------



## loveispatient (Jan 10, 2013)

Happy birthday. Sounds like you're at least having a decent start to your day..


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

:birthday:Happy Birthday A12!:birthday: Have a great evening and enjoy the game!

"Birthday" by The Beatles FUNNY - YouTube


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks so much, all, for the kind birthday wishes! After a certain age, one becomes more grateful for each trip around the sun  

I know this is co-dependent as hell, but my H also wished my happy birthday on Facebook, and I don't mind him seeing the large number of friends sending me greetings on there to remind him I am not a pariah


----------



## loveispatient (Jan 10, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks so much, all, for the kind birthday wishes! After a certain age, one becomes more grateful for each trip around the sun
> 
> I know this is co-dependent as hell, but my H also wished my happy birthday on Facebook, and I don't mind him seeing the large number of friends sending me greetings on there to remind him I am not a pariah


It's human nature to be validated right? We seek affection and approval from the people we love all the time. It's hard when we're told NOT TO when dealing with a separation or a divorce because it FEELS unnatural. 

On that side note, I hope your day continues to go well..


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, just checking in, see if you are okay, you've sounded more upbeat. I know you don't want to read too much into H's latest overtures but I must tell you that if that was me, I'd be delighted and hopeful. 

Thanks for info on Crossfit - looking into it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - Thank you, I had a decent day and the Caps won last night (Ranger danger game on the telly this evening @ 7:30pm should you need a distraction). However, bizarrely, I ran into my H last night on the way home on the metro. We sat together and he walked me to my car -- talked a bit. He said he is "still working on his issues" and can't promise anything. Nothing new there -- still status quo limbo (shocker) with no timeline for a decision. I just said I'd pray for him and to let me know if I can be of any help. If I get sick enough if limbo I can always file myself -- but I'll take it a day at a time, knowing I do have that option. He did offer to pick me up from a doctor's appointment next Tuesday (just a routine screening), so that will give him an opportunity to "act as if" he is still a husband, which I appreciate. Working on keeping my focus on myself and avoiding any expectations.

Glad to hear your plan of action is moving forward, Hang in there, and keep us posted!

Warmly, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, wow, isn't it the oddest thing, "running into" your H after the Caps game. Such a crazy time we live in, you know? But it really does sound like you're in a much better place than a week or two ago. Offered to pick you up from Doc's office - again, wow. Mine, well, you know the saying, she wouldn't t pee on me if I were on fire. yes, keep your focus. 

I had to go to Quantico today, I hate driving down there, but back in time for Caps game and leftover Chinese on a paper plate again. 

I know you've got your demons and plenty of regrets but you still sound like a sweet woman to me. Like I aLways say, hang tough.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks for your encouraging words, Bullwinkle! I mis-spoke it's the Flyers (not Rangers) tonight and our Caps are being out-played - LOL!

That drive from Quantico must be a slog with the traffic -- hope you got home and into the sweats for a relaxing night. 

Be good to yourself, and know you'll soon get to a better place 

Cheers, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks and same to you.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

God, I miss him at bedtime. I know this is sick, and I should be past this by now. But that vacant space beside my in the bed and the memory of the happiness I felt all the nights he would spoon me and I would fall asleep with the warmth of his perfect body next to me are so haunting, Pathetic to admit I still long for him.,.

Good evening, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Spooning. Bout sums it all up, A12. 

I really hope he comes home to you. 

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

To celebrate the coming of spring, some inspiration from Rev. Hardies of All Souls Unitarian Church:

Resilience is our ability to bounce back from loss, setback or despair. After love, it is perhaps the most important human attribute. Resilience will be the subject of our reflection in worship this month, and to start us off I offer you this poem by the Mexican poet Octavio Paz:

after

after chopping off all the arms that reached out to me;
after boarding up all the windows and doors;
after filling all the pits with poisoned water;
after building my house on the rock of no,
inaccessible to flattery and fear;
after cutting off my tongue and eating it;
after hurling handfuls of silence
and monosyllable of scorn at my loves;
after forgetting my name;
and the name of my birthplace;
and the name of my race;
after judging and sentencing myself
to perpetual waiting,
and perpetual loneliness, I heard
against the stones of my dungeon of syllogisms,
the humid, tender, insistent
onset of spring.

May the tender, insistent onset of spring awaken resilience in your soul this month.


(((((((((((((((resiliance)))))))))))))))))))))


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hurling handfuls of silence. 

Good stuff, A12. 


BW


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 - 

I hope it's at least warmer down there, freezing here today. Tried to detail the car and I was cold even in my Special Place. 

Nothing better than a good zombie movie. I always forget that they eat brains. 

I hope you're staing in one of those hotels where they put out free food at five but that it's better than a few cheese wedges and Doritos chips. 

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Unfortunately, it was is no warmer in ATL -- it is bloody freezing here, and windy and gray to boot. At airport on my way home now. We may have to wait a bit for warmer temps, but I adore springtime in DC! The cherry blossoms and all -- never get tired of it. Have a GREAT time with your precious little girl today!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, A12. Cold and windy here. 
Just arriving at the House of Horrors to pick up my SweetPea. 
Safe flight. And yes, cherry blossoms coming soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bullwinkle said:


> Thanks, A12. Cold and windy here.
> Just arriving at the House of Horrors to pick up my SweetPea.
> Safe flight. And yes, cherry blossoms coming soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Warmer weather in the way by the end of this week.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Small update: My H picked me up and drove me home this morning from a routine medical screening appointment, which went fine. He was friendly and chipper, and we just had small talk, hugged and did the peck on the cheek kiss. I thanked him again as I was getting out of the car, he said, "No problem. Hey, we need to get together soon to do our taxes." I just smiled and said anytime was fine, and I have all my paperwork in order just let me know. 

Whether this is the last time we will be filing as a married couple, God only knows...

So much for that. I am happy to be resting at home for the remainder of the day, and gleefully anticipating the alledged possibility of a snow day tomorrow, if we get more than a few inches. BW, what say you -- do you think there is a "snowquester" in the offing? If so, maybe you can take your daughter out to play in the snow, and show her her how to make snow angels!  

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Miss A12

Was wondering where you were but forgot you had mentioned your procedure, sorry. Glad it went well. The whole thing with your H continues to sound positive. If my W treated me half that well you could knock me down with a feather. But I know it is the limbo thing that is so discouraging....

Great idea, snow angels! My quandary for tomorrow's snow is divorce protocol - do I offer to shovel WS's driveway? I wouldn't except for D.... 

Anyways, heading downtown for BS meeting, glad you're feeling okay, saying a novena right now for snow. 

Hopefully this time tomorrow I'll still be in my jammies drinking cocoa.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - LOL re: novena for snow, ha, ha!  Hoping the same re: being in jammies with hot cocoa tomorrow. 

You are such a gentleman to think of doing the shovelling for D's sake. It would be a kind thing to do.

It is dangerous for me to be home alone after anesthesia -- I have just gone online and bought a sassy new bike helmet:
Bern Lenox - Women - Bike Helmets Unlimited

Have a great evening, and I'll be watching that OPM personel update like a hawk (we follow what the feds do re: inclement weather leave practice)!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Good looking helmet, A12!

I hope you're resting comfortably, as they say. 

I'm at my kebob place in Crystal City, eating too much damn lamb curry tonight, Washington Post for companionship. 

Yes, yes, snow. Looking on good on v here, they have Al Jazeera on and the weather guy says 6 to 8 in DC.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle! LOL, I know and love those Crystal City kabob places. Is it the one with the awesome buffet? Good for you getting your protein  Maybe you should go around the corner to check out the foxy ladies at the http://www.crystalcityrestaurant.com/!

Bring on the snowquester and free day off! Caps-Bruins tonight at 7pm -- gonna be a rough rumble.

Cheers, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Federal Govt closed! 

Back to bed, probably lie here half the day, just because I can. 

Sorry for the rant last night, A12, the woman is just sucking the life out of me. I'm better now. 

Snow angels.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Woot! Enjoy the sweet free day off! Glad you are feeling better, and feel free to rant all you want when you need to -- it's part of the process and that's what we're here for, to be a support network -- though the tough love 2x4s may come out on occasion  

Caps had an AMAZING come back win last night against the Bruins! Truly a spectacular game. Bruins must be kicking rocks today, having lost after giving up their 3 goal lead  

Stay cozy, and have a great drama free day!  

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Afternoon, 12. Hope this finds you well. 

I ended up having to go into work after all, long story, but at least I got to liie in for a while this morning. 

Yes, quite a game last night, good for Caps. 

I feel better today, no ranting. How you bearing up? Hope you're hunkered down somewhere watching the snow....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle -

Glad you got to sleep in a little, at least. Apart from an hour-long work conference call, I'm enjoying a day of leisure  Did get over to my CrossFit gym (CrossfitAdaptation | Elite Fitness in the Heart of Shirlington) for the following WOD (work out of the day):

Part A:
Establish a 1RM Overhead Squat

Part B:
50 Double Under buy in, then:
3 Rounds
15 KB Swings (1.5/1)
4 Turkish Get Up/ KB Overhead Squat Complex (1.5/1)
then:
50 Double Under buy out

Nothing crazy for me, I maxed the OHS at #75, but fun to see some folks getting impressive lifts  The social aspect is the best -- a very friendly supportive, positive, encouraging community.

Now back in the sweatpants for a lazy evening -- hope yours is a good one, and so glad you're feeling better. It is a rollercoaster, for sure, but I know you will weather this like a champ.

Cheers, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, Ms 12. 

I'm impressed with your apparent fitness regimen. I think I know where that gym is, not far from a good restaurant but I forget the name of it. What the hell is a Turkish Get up? Reminds me of something from my time in Ankara in air force days, but it's one of those take to the grave stories. I hear you about the social aspect, same for me, I swim at the Pentagon every morning and then the other stuff after work at gym downtown. 

Thanks for the continued support, it really helps. I really hope you get some "resolution" before too long, I know the limbo part is the hardest.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Nice to see the sun today! The "Turkish Get Up" is a great functional movement conditioning exercise, requiring coordination and agility -- performed with a kettle bell:
Kettlebell Turkish Get-up

Fun!  

You are so right about the prolonged limbo being hard, but I made a decision that I would choose to let it be and live with it a day at a time until I don't/can't -- at which point I will go ahead and file myself. What drives me mad is his indecision -- it is almost a year now since he moved out, and we have sorted out all our finances and property and have no children, no outstanding issues -- so there is nothing to stop him from gettting a D quickly and easily. Why does he not go ahead and file, if he's so darn sure he does not want to be married anymore and is better off without me? He is self-employed and successful, but is on my (superb) health insurance -- while that's not an insignificant benefit, it surely isn't reason enough to stay married, just for the health insurance coverage? At any rate, I have been told that mind reading is crazy making, so I try not to dwell on it. 

Just stay present in today, make myself useful and productive, find joy in the small pleasures, and see what life brings. Hope your day is a good one!

Floating Down the River, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 - 

Thanks for enlightening me on the Turkish jump up. It's really good that you've got such a great outlet as your gym, both workout-wise and socially. 

Yes, the limbo thing you're enduring sounds just awful. You've read my thread and you know that if nothing else, my WS hates me every day, has never waivered from her determination to kick me to the curb. You have to appreciate the consistency, the focus. 

I can't imagine why your H continues to sort of shuffle along, not deciding. Surely not the health insurance. I mean, that's important but.... I would give anything to be in his situation, whereby my wife was waiting patiently for me to just come home. Forgive. Try and forget. If it were me, I might have strung her along for a while, but then, late one Friday night, I'd have turned up at her door with some flowers and some understanding and maybe an anchovie pizza. 

Keep doing what you're doing, you seem to have enough strength for the rest of us,


BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words, Bullwinkle! It really cheers me up -- especially the part about the anchovie pizza (love it!)  

It seems as I recall from your story that your WS was open to R at one point in time and that it almost happened, but somehow was thwarted by her mother's influence, is that correct? Why would her mother hold such sway over her, where her marriage is concerned? Do you think the MIL's influence was the deciding factor at the time she pushed you out, or was that just fuel to the fire of her pre-existing twisted thinking?

I read Gutpunch's thread today and it made me cry -- the way he is standing by his W is so moving to me. I am so envious of those whose spouses don't give up on them and their marriages. But I am reminded by my cadre of advisors that my H is grappling with his own underlying issues (from childhood) that may have been triggered by my misbehavior, but that I am not responsible for his reaction or his feelings -- he knows how remorseful I am, and how dearly I would like the chance to make amends and show him that he can trust me to be the quality, loving, dependable wife he deserves. 

Thanks again, and have a great evening! Caps-FL Panthers tonight at 7pm  

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -


Yes, Caps game on now!

Yes, I believed WS and I were very close to R right before Christmas. Sleeping in the same bed, holding hands, talking about the future. She told me she wasn't sure about our future but that we needed to talk more. *And then her evil mother arrived from England. My wife has apparently always had this weird thing where it was either the man in her life or her mother. *Her mother absolutely convinced her that I was a hopelessly insecure, old fashioned American who just couldn't come to terms with his wife having cozy relationships with other men. *And of course her mum has her own agenda, she wants my wife and D to return to London and for D to be raised British and for MIL to not be alone. 

I'm like you in that I find Gutpunch's thread inspiring. *He's a stand-up guy, sticking with his his family and WS in the worst adversity. *I know your heart breaks again when you compare it to your own marriage.... Whatever happened to standing by your mate, no matter what, come what may? *If my wife had a drug or alcohol problem I would do ANYTHING to support her, *I'd never turn my back on her. 

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 7, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Talk About Marriage" <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Bullwinkle,

Awakening2012 has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - The Final Dagger - Please Help!!! - in the Going Through Divorce or Separation forum of Talk About Marriage.

This thread is located at:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-.../67981-final-dagger-please-help-new-post.html

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Thank you for your kind words, Bullwinkle! It really cheers me up -- especially the part about the anchovie pizza (love it!)  

It seems as I recall from your story that your WS was open to R at one point in time and that it almost happened, but somehow was thwarted by her mother's influence, is that correct? *Why would her mother hold such sway over her, where her marriage is concerned? Do you think the MIL's influence was the deciding factor at the time she pushed you out, or was that just fuel to the fire of her pre-existing twisted thinking?

I read Gutpunch's thread today and it made me cry -- the way he is standing by his W is so moving to me. *I am so envious of those whose spouses don't give up on them and their marriages. *But I am reminded by my cadre of advisors that my H is grappling with his own underlying issues (from childhood) that may have been triggered by my misbehavior, but that I am not responsible for his reaction or his feelings -- he knows how remorseful I am, and how dearly I would like the chance to make amends and show him that he can trust me to be the quality, loving, dependable wife he deserves. *

Thanks again, and have a great evening! Caps-FL Panthers tonight at 7pm


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OMG, thank you Bullwinkle. Waterworks again, here re: "stand by your mate." I wonder if my H is at the game with his best bud (whose ex I've been going to the games H and I used to enjoy attending together - LOL!). His best bud's ex is looking fantastic by the way, and is a lot of fun -- she's off to Peru this week on vacay  I'm tempted to text H about how the Caps are killing it (I almost feel bad for the Panthers!) but will resist that urge.

Gutpunch is my hero! Hope you are doing OK this week -- will you see your daughter soon? Any progress with your attorney? I'm sorry the MIL was so noxious in her influence. You CANNOT let your daughter be relocated to the UK!!! Not gonna happen. Hang in there, champ!

Best, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, A12. 

Caps killing it!

Seeing D on Saturday. 

Call your bud and tell her to take me to Peru with her. Foot rubs, cheap wine.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, I was trying to reply to your PM, I sent it a couple of times, must be doing something wrong, what a dunce, eh?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Miniscule Update: Per H's request, I dropped off a packet of all my tax filing papers for 2012, plus emailed him a statement I had to retrieve off my computer at work. Not much communication by way of response, just "Thanks, I'll make an appointment with ___ (accountant) this week and get the taxes taken care of."

Next stop, divorce? I would really like to know WHY, WHY, WHY, he does not just go ahead and file? As previously mentioned, we have not outstanding child, financial or property issues to resolve. I try not to dwell on it and jsut leave it alone, but if any one has experience with a walk-away spouse who dragged things out, I would love any insight anyone can share. I do not bring it up with him, because I am trying to respect his space and his process and not push him. It has been nearly a year since he moved out! I feel like a widow. If he is really over it, and sure he cannot envision us having a future together, then why does he drag this out? To punish me, but keeping a sliver of hope for R alive, when there have been zero signs in that direction? Laziness? Passive aggressiveness? All of the above? OK, I am done speculating for now. Just had to get that out.

Curiously Cooling It, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

At least in this forum, my humble opinion is, simply ask him. 

He's been gone a year. You have given him ample time, respected his space, not pushed. But this is ricidulous. I would maybe ask him to swing by for a coffee or something and then politely ask him what his intentions are. No threats,no ultimatums.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Miniscule Update: Per H's request, I dropped off a packet of all my tax filing papers for 2012, plus emailed him a statement I had to retrieve off my computer at work. Not much communication by way of response, just "Thanks, I'll make an appointment with ___ (accountant) this week and get the taxes taken care of."
> 
> Next stop, divorce? I would really like to know WHY, WHY, WHY, he does not just go ahead and file? As previously mentioned, we have not outstanding child, financial or property issues to resolve. I try not to dwell on it and jsut leave it alone, but if any one has experience with a walk-away spouse who dragged things out, I would love any insight anyone can share. I do not bring it up with him, because I am trying to respect his space and his process and not push him. It has been nearly a year since he moved out! I feel like a widow. If he is really over it, and sure he cannot envision us having a future together, then why does he drag this out? To punish me, but keeping a sliver of hope for R alive, when there have been zero signs in that direction? Laziness? Passive aggressiveness? All of the above? OK, I am done speculating for now. Just had to get that out.
> 
> Curiously Cooling It, - A12


He may not be dragging it out; he may have gone to a lawyer and is in the process of getting paperwork drawn up. I know it took forever for my lawyer to get the divorce petition drawn up.. What I should say is don’t contact him.. It sounds like you are still hoping for R. I wouldn’t do anything to push a divorce or the timeline then if I were you. Although his email to you about not wanting to be married to you anymore was harsh and hurtful, maybe he too is experiencing the pain of loss and is grieving. If he in fact is dragging his feet maybe that is why. He knows where you stand right? That you want R and are willing to work at the marriage? You don’t need to say more that, the rest is still up to him if you’re waiting to wait. I wish you luck and hope for the best!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, BW and DYRCare -

I know he has the papers and it would be very easy and simple to file -- no kids, already divided assets. He's hanging on for some reason -- and my best (however remote) for any potential of R is to leave it alone. Let him lead. Let it play out...

Thanks for letting me vent! It is more helpful than you know, even if it is just to get out my hurt and frustration :-(

Cheers, A12


----------



## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi A12, thought I'd add my thoughts. Sounds like your H is facing up to some issues. Do you think he is depressed? I can't help but think he might be going thought a midlife crisis. I think you're handling everything just great, being detached, looking after yourself,keeping things friendly between the two of you. I know limbo is so tough, but keep at it if you can. I wouldn't mention divorce, he might be thinking of it but I doubt it. Keep looking after yourself. If he gets in touch with you, I would keep everything light and friendly, as you have been doing. I really could take some lessons from you on detachment!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Chopsy -

Thanks for your kind reply and encouraging words. As to depression, YES, he cops to that 100%, and is on meds management and regular IC for it -- so at least not doing nothing. However, he has thus far refused MC, giving evasive excuses as do why (thinks it won't work, just don't want to, general,skepticism. He knows I want R, that I believe there is so much good and love worth salvaging, that there can be no one else for me. But I need a miracle at this point for him to find his way back to my heart. Trying to look for the positive in each day, and it helps to know I'm not alone 

Thanks again! Warmly, A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

No, wish I could report better news, but here is the crushing just now exchange:

＂Kim,
I know that it is unfair to continue keeping you in limbo regarding the divorce paperwork. I'm sorry for the delay; the gravity of it kept me in a permanent state of paralysis regarding this issue. I think we both need closure so I've told the lawyer that I need to get this thing done. The lawyer is primarily a form filer; everything is standard boilerplate for an uncontested, no child divorce. Please feel free to take your time if you want someone to review it. I was a little freaked out about it the first time i saw it but it basically says everything is settled and neither party will make a claim.
The form just needs to be signed and faxed to the lawyer. I will handle the court appearance and subsequent paperwork. You do not have to be present for the court appearance; it's basically a 5 minute process where I answer a couple of questions.
I will drop off the paperwork to your front desk with the faxing instructions.
I hope you can find it in your heart to one day forgive me for my part in our failed marriage. I know i have not been the man you thought you were marrying and for that, I beg your forgiveness. 
Mark

My reply:

If this is sure what you want, I won't resist it, much as I hoped the deep bond we once shared would make it worth more of an effort to save what I always believed was so much good and such rare bond worthy and capable of being salvaged. My heart is broken that you decided otherwise -- but I understand and accept your reasons. I will never love another as I have loved you, and will do my best to let go with love, honor and dignity. Thank you for all you have meant to me, which is the greatest gift of my life -- and I will eternally regret my failings and wish I could make it up to you and have been the wife you deserved. I will never stop loving you and wishing the best for you, my one true love 

Heartbroken, Your STBX Wife


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I am heartbroken....This is not the life I envisioned. I loved him so! But maybe this ending will help me finally move on.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

God. Beyond sad.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Nothing I can say...


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

So sorry


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you so much for all your support! Part of me wanted to slam him and say, "the man that I married? You mean the one who would have the courage and strength and love to stand by the woman he married, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health?" But I'm glad I did not, and took the high road -- it would not really help me feel better to lash out.

I had hoped for a different outcome and feel gutted that I will soon but among those moving over to the "Life After Divorce" section. But maybe there will be a silver lining in being out of limbo, and finally better able to move on, emotionally and heal properly.

Onward to a New Chapter, -A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Here is what I want to send him as a P.S.:

"Also, I will sign but you can do the faxing yourself. Just as you would not lift a finger to help the marriage succeed, by refusing even a single marital counseling session since the separation, why should I lift a finger to help execute the divorce that YOU and only you wanted? You can do your own dirty work. And no, you are most definitely not the man I married."

Should I bother sending, or is this too angry and petty?


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, A12, it is angry. IDK if I'd call it petty. 

Let him do the faxing but if there are things you still need to say to him, do it separately, don't connect faxing to marriage vows. My humble opinion.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Also, I want to ask him what to expect in terms of process and timing -- e.g. when will the court appearance take place? Do I have the right to attend if I so chose? How quickly will the divorce be finalized and can I be provided copies of all paperwork?

For now, I am going to stay dark until I see papers delivered. I'll see what the papers say, but I think I have a set amount of time to respond/sign -- and if I decline to sign he can obtain the divorce without my signature after a certain period? He has been so unbelievably passive aggressive this entire time, maybe I should out-passive-aggressive him - how about that? LOL!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

Yeah, you should me made aware of the court date, you can and should be present, just in case, you should be provided copies of everything. You of course can hire an attorney to review everything although I understand you're contesting each other in any way.

I would encourage you to participate with this, as painful as it is....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle - No we are not contesting anything, I just want to know my rights and be kept informed of the process and timing. I'll wait to see the paperwork, but doubt I will need to hire my own lawyer. As for "participating" -- appearing in court -- is that just so I can know what was said/done? I guess if I have questions about being informed of court date/time and copied on all paperwork I can ask his attorney? Ugh...

Hope your day is going better.

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, my day has settled down, thanks.

I mean, since it's all going uncontested and there are no real issues, then yes, you can do all of the above, but he and his lawyer don't really have to include you, though your H sounds like he's trying to be somewhat gracious now.

If it were me I would get an attorney just to review the paperwork, maybe end up paying total of two hours. Though mine charges 400 dollars an hour....


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - so sorry to hear. You've handled the situation with grace and dignity and hopefully this will allow you to move past the "limbo". Now you can control your own destiny as different as that may be from what you envisioned.

On the lighter side, I got a chuckle from the divergence of your PC reply and your "unedited" PS. I would hold off on that for awhile. Others here may have an opinion (they usually do). I do understand the need but the response is never what one wants.

Agree with BW to have an attorney review just to be safe.

Take care!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Any advice on how to go about identifying/selecting an attorney?


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Any advice on how to go about identifying/selecting an attorney?


Do you have friends who have used a divorce attorney and were satisfied? Referrall is usually the best.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Mine is very good but he's out here in Tyson's. There's a Family Law office where you work, on Wilson Blvd.....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Super, thank you! I will look into the one on Wilson Blvd. and will also ask a couple friends for references.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Any advice on how to go about identifying/selecting an attorney?


Dont pick mine...


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I am so sorry for your pain... I don’t know if you should send anything now but I would share with him how you feel again. I would be honest but heartfelt
I heard that if you want a heartfelt response you need to give a man a heartfelt imagery of something they can relate to. When I wrote my husband a letter years ago I wrote of the agony of sitting and nursing his dying father, of making sure the oxygen levels were exactly right and sure I was killing him with my lack of knowledge, watching him gasp for breath and trying to comfort him and how that was the hardest thing I had ever done in my life until now. How his lack of knowledge of how he was hurting me was killing me. I then told him how my heart wasn’t broken, it was worse than that, for every lie he told me, every bruise he put on me, every time he chose to kiss another woman he was taking a thin long knife and stabbing me. That I had been a walking bleeding body for years, trying to put Band-Aids on flowing wounds to staunch all the blood from leaving my body at once. But I was losing, my life was flowing out of me and the Band-Aids weren’t working. There was more I can’t remember all of it, but.... He chose to write to the other woman after that letter and turned away from her. 
This time I wrote a 4 page letter, it was a goodbye letter, not a letter to make him comeback, but one to hopefully have him set himself on a different path for his sons sake. These were my last two paragraphs " I think about the song from Adel "Rolling in the Deep where it says we could have had it all, but I think at one point we did have it all, you had it all, but it wasn’t enough for you. you chose to go after (last woman). Addiction can do that to people, it’s all about the next fix, not what they have right there in front of them. And then you’re left with the aftermath of chaos of those choices and so are your loved ones. Where did it get you in the long run and now you've done it again, you've made another bad choice to go back, to lie and feed an addiction instead of getting help. 

It happens in a blink doesn’t it? One day were young, had all these dreams ahead of us, then we cling to those dreams, try to hold on with every breath, then in and instant there over. But now maybe its time to look ahead again or at least maybe above. Let’s just be at peace ok, with each other, with ourselves? I really hope you can make whatever the next leg of your Life is work for you. I hope we can go on with the steps of divorce as amicably and peacefully as possible. I need a future and a hope and that is without you my dear, so let me go... its time. I long for you to find it also as the previous pages say, you need to get help, you need to do it for you, and you need to do it for your sons and the future of any hope of good relationships in your life."

He made you sad.... what he wrote to you was heart wrenching.. you need to do the same.


----------



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi A-12 and thanks for your kind words on my post . I really respect you for pouring your heart out about your addiction. I wish your H would have put in more effort towards your marriage or at least Al-Anon (you go for you, but the positive affects show up in the marriage) and things could have been different.

Take or leave what I have to say...a bunch of recovery talk is going to start flying 

While I agree with your PS, I wouldn't send it. BB page 83 "We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible." There are a lot of problems I see with my H's recovery, but I don't (do my best not to lol) take his inventory for him. He will to me occasionally, and it makes me angry  Once you start pointing out each others character defects (he will fire back) the good will that you have built up between you will disappear.

It is completely reasonable to say you don't want to fax them because you still don't want the divorce. You can encourage him to keep going to Al-Anon because the feelings don't go away just because you have. 

I don't want to give you any false expectations, but if he keeps going to Al-Anon, he might change his mind. If you told me a year ago I would still be with my H I would have said no f'ing way. I felt like he caused it and it was his job to fix it. But the more I went, the more I worked at it, I learned how to deal with my own anger, guilt and shame that I caused because i accepted unacceptable behavior. He can't fix our marriage if I refuse to change myself and put it all on him. The way this all went down...seems like your H had some hope after his two meetings. Remember that. Even if D papers go thru, if you are both working your programs, you can R. I have seen it happen . Don't count on it, but I think it is worth keeping the good will amongst you for that chance.

All the best to you


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi OregonMom - Thanks so much for your words of encouragement, and your inspirimg story.

I got home from work today and no papers, no keys (to what is now legally MY house dropped off per my request. He has flip-flopped so many times and sent so many mixed messages. 

Should I even ask him about timeline and process? When can I expect papers to be served and keys returned? My instinct is to leave it alone and just let it plsy out, and uncomfortable as that may be and as powerless and heat broken as I feel. Yes, there is some anger and hurt mixed in with the sadness, the loss of the grest life we could have had together, his refusal to try.

Sitting in the hallway, and anticipating doom -- not where I want to be. I just feel so old and tired and hopeless, like I have blown my chance for happiness with the man of my dreams.

OK, off the pity party for now -- not a goood place to hang out.

I hope you and your H are doing well, and hesling of your msrrisge coming along. Thanks for the bright spot in this bleak day!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

He is probably really confused, hence the flip flopping. I used to flip flop daily, now it's only occasionally. The big difference for me was surrounding myself with others in Al-Anon instead of the people telling me to leave. Deep down in my heart I knew I wanted to give him a chance if he was following thru with his program. People in Al-Anon understood that. Outside influences don't, they don't think the other person can really change or think the damage has been done. They don't get that it was the addiction that caused all this turmoil. I didnt like to disappoint people, I didn't trust my own feelings, I didn't want people to think I was a dumb ass. Your H could be having these same feelings.

I know how hard it is, but I would let it play out. He could interpret asking about those things as you saying you are done or that you are putting pressure on him to hurry it up. He is still in the midst of his crap and undecisive and irrational. Remember how you felt in the midst of your addiction - while we react in different ways, the feelings are actually very similar, as are the underlying issues of self esteem, self doubt, hating yourself for what has happened.

You might want to go to a meeting and share about this...you probably already have, but I found if I follow up my share with "if there is anyone else who has gone thru this I would really appreciate you sharing with me after the meeting", people will approach me more and share really good stuff. Sometimes it is hard to tell when someone is sharing if they are just blowing off steam but already know what they need to know or if they want input. You may find someone who could shed a new light on the situation for you.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Wouldn't you know, another day, another flop flop. My H calls me last night arouind 8:30pm, backpeddling again on the divorce talk, saying he just did not want to keep me in limbo while he tries to sort himself out. Crying. In pain. He is all over the place with his pain (I feel awful about my part in it, he knows this) he is so torn -- cannot quite bring himself to file, yet agonizing over whether he can get over his shyt (he owns that much of what he's srtuggling with is his stuff and doesn't blame all his depression on me, or so he says). 

I just kept calm and tried to be sympathetic and supportive. I told him, as long as he wanted to work on himself I would be patient and to let me know how I can be helpful. So now divorce is off the table again for the moment -- who knows net week? "As the Wold Turns" -- my life feels like a bloody soap opera.

Anyway, I hope all are doing well.

Best, -A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Well I think that sounds encouraging don’t you? Sounds like not only is he willing to forgive you but work on the things that he needs to work on... Keep working on yourself; show him that you are becoming the person that you should have been before you made those poor decisions. all you can do is take ownership of yourself. Hopefully he will keep doing the same and you both will end up with a happier healthier marriage!


----------



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

This sounds like good news . I think you handled the whole conversation really well.

I was thinking I should have added this is my last post, but I was just focusing on the fact that you wanted to R. You don't have to stay in limbo forever. It is not a fun place to be. I can tell you have a lot of guilt for your part in this, but you don't have to feel like you owe him if he is not giving effort too. It takes both of you to fix this, if it is only you, the pattern will keep repeating itself despite your best efforts. 

Keep encouraging him. You did great at that without putting any pressure on him (I almost want to show this to my H as the way to do it ). I have a lot of hope for you guys! All the best to you.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Just checking in, no big update, but hey -- TGIF!

I try not to think about my estranged H and uncertain future, but after 11 months of separation limbo, I remain willing to be patient if some part of him can't bring himself to file for divorce and he wants more time to see if he can work out his "issues." He is going on his annual "man-venture" his brother and a few buddies in a couple of weeks (dirt biking in Utah), so maybe that will help clear his head and figure out what he wants? Who knows?

I can accept him taking the time he needs to heal and sort himself out. But after a year apart (April 8), if I do not see him taking any concrete actions towards attempting to reconnect with me and put some value on me and our marriage, then what's the point of staying married? If things aren't changing and you aren't communicating and trying to work things out, attempting to see if it is possible to re-connect and restore the spark and make a new beginning, I don't see how this can drag on indefinitely. I mean, this marriage is not going to fix itself.

I know I'm just griping -- sorry. I made a decision to stay patient and keep working on myself a day at a time, so I'll hang in there with this limbo B.S. until I can't. I have been told: "accept or reject, don't tolerate and resent."

Some days I feel fearful or spending the rest of my life alone. Or maybe become a crazy cat lady  Then I get reminded when someone flirts with me (yes, it happens!) that maybe I sill have some shelf life in me, and to stop letting my fears get the best of me, or (worse) wallow in self pity ;-) 

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Cheers,- A12 (who is staying away from the Animal Shelter - LOL!)


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Great post, A12. Let me know if you want to chat sometime.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

You know the drama is taking a toll when you feel like your separation has taken on a bad soundtrack or Richard Marx theme song: 

Richard Marx - Right Here Waiting - YouTube


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Glad you're feeling okay and had a good workout. 

Great song choice - "And I slowly go insane...."


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Evening, A12. How are you holding up?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle -

Thanks got asking, just the same thing, taking it a day at a time and no expectations. Respecting his space and letting him lead. But not play the victim either, and reserving my rights to file myself if and when I can't take the limbo any more.
No further communication from him H except s couple small talk texts re: Sundays Caps game.
That's about it for now. Hope your week is going well -- hang in there!

Your Friend in solidarity, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Glad to hear you're okay, kid. No more Victims Chair, eh?

I used that expression yesterday with WS and she did NOT like it. 

At the risk of damaging our friendship, Go Bruins!

Asleep at the wheel tonight, on the couch dozing. Keep the faith!

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> At the risk of damaging our friendship, Go Bruins!


Aha! The truth come out -- all the while you were a Bruins traitor  From whence does this Boston affinity arise? They are having a far better season than our Caps, that's for sure.

Hope your day is going well. Still radio silence from my H since those few texts Sunday, and still doing my best to keep my focus off him and our "situation" -- and trust that it will all sort out as it is supposed to.

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Ha!

Hi, A12, yes, the truth comes out, I am a born and bred Bostonian, have been a Bruins fan since I was two years old, ah, the good old days, the Canadiens would come to town, greatest rivalry in hockey in those days. I like and follow the Caps, but you understand....

So sorry you're still in The Cone of Silence with Mr. A12..... I must give you credit for patience and giving him space to sort out his issues....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I feel like I am losing my mind today. I got a breezy email from my estranged H regarding preparation of our tax filing, which he agreed to handle with his accountant who we have always used since we got married. He tells me that "because of our current living status, we can file 'Married-Filing Single' which helps us avoid the 'marriage penalty' and lowers our taxes." Sounds good, right? Maybe for him. but evidently not for me! Because he then goes on to say that because of "underwitholding" my portion of the tax bill is $13K, whereas, he will be getting a modest refund (!!!). 

It is complicated, because I sold a rental property as part of the whole separation fiasco, and set aside the estimated tax amount I knew I would owe on the proceeds of the sale. The numbers he gave me (via his accountant) don't segregate capital gains vs. income tax liability, but come out $13K more than I had set aside for the tax bill on proceeds from the rental house sale???? So I asked my H ti please request the breakout so I can address the "under-witholding" if that's the case. This drives me mad, because I was sure I had addressed in the past and maxed out my payroll tax witholding with my employer to avoid just such an unpleasant surprise whopper tax bill. 

Anyway, my H is supposedly asking his accountant and will get back to me. I always trusted my H with finances, and he has treated me more than fairly in terms of the financial aspects of our separation agreement. Money was blessedly never something we argued about. I thought it gentlemanly of him to handle the taxes again this year and pay for the accountant services/tax preparation, but 
now I see this "married filing single" thing seems to have worked out much better for my H than for me! 

We will see what his accountant has to say to explain whether he underestimated what I owed on the house sale, vs. supposed "underwitholding" of income taxes. But it leaves me wondering if I should ask for my paperwork back and get a second opinion from my own accountant? Or do we still have to file together under this option? Should I at least see if I can meet with his accountant on my own so I can go over the numbers with him and understand the math? $13K more than I was expecting to pay is A LOT for me to swallow -- so much for my re-modelling plans! Arrrghhhh!!!!!

Sorry to b*tch, but this news really throws me for a loop. Hope y'all are having a better day than mine. 

From the purgatory land of the "undivorced," - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Omigod, A12' I'm going through a very similar thing. My bill wasn't going to be as much as yours but still horrendous. 

What he is doing is patently unfair. You operated under the assumption all year that you would be filing jointly and designated your witholdings accordingly. 

Yes, to all your questions! Talk to him, his accountant! This is crazy! But most importantly, it is now time for tou to LAWYER UP!

No judge in Virginia is going to allow him to get away with springing this on you, it's unfair, deceptive and just wrong. The only way to go is to file jointly OR you go with the single plan but he agrees up fron that afterwards you split the refund and share the tax bill. 

Lawyer up! Go see somebody tomorrow!

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

I am sorry that you, too, faced a much larger tax bill than anticipated -- ugh!!! It is upsetting, but I have asked to see the breakout that will show me how much of the liability is actually from "underwitholding" on payroll, vs. miscalculation of what I would owe on the proceeds from sale of the rental house. If it is the latter, I still don't like the unpleasant surprise, but should at least be able to tell if I was actually "under-witholding." 

I just called my H to tell him I was feeling upset about such a huge tax bill, and he did offer to have the accountant run the numbers under the "filing jointly" scenario so I can see the difference it would make for each of us. I may take him up on that, once I see the accountant's response and talk to my payroll colleagues. I honestly don't think my H is trying to jack me on this. He has never been actively mean to me -- more of a passive aggressive, "cone of silence," avoidance, indecisive type  

I will have to see and sign off on the forms anyway, which I won't do without being satisfied there is no unfairness going on.

Anyway, thanks so much for letting me vent and for your most kind and chivalrous response  I have to remind myself it is "just money" and will get resolved, with or without additional lawyers' fees! I would not feel so fraught with emotion about this if I knew H and I would still have a future together, but I am finding there is great vulnerability that comes with the territory of living with such uncertainty and clinging to to the faintest of hopes. 

Hope your day is going well -- I must catch up with your thread and see if you were able to work it out to get your regular weekly time with your D? 

Onward, - A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> I feel like I am losing my mind today. I got a breezy email from my estranged H regarding preparation of our tax filing, which he agreed to handle with his accountant who we have always used since we got married. He tells me that "because of our current living status, we can file 'Married-Filing Single' which helps us avoid the 'marriage penalty' and lowers our taxes." Sounds good, right? Maybe for him. but evidently not for me! Because he then goes on to say that because of "underwitholding" my portion of the tax bill is $13K, whereas, he will be getting a modest refund (!!!).
> 
> It is complicated, because I sold a rental property as part of the whole separation fiasco, and set aside the estimated tax amount I knew I would owe on the proceeds of the sale. The numbers he gave me (via his accountant) don't segregate capital gains vs. income tax liability, but come out $13K more than I had set aside for the tax bill on proceeds from the rental house sale???? So I asked my H ti please request the breakout so I can address the "under-witholding" if that's the case. This drives me mad, because I was sure I had addressed in the past and maxed out my payroll tax witholding with my employer to avoid just such an unpleasant surprise whopper tax bill.
> 
> ...


Get the second opinion

Do not trust him.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Conrad - OK, will do, but that will require retrieving all my paperwork from "his" accountant. Good thing we have a few weeks before April 15th, or I guess I could file for a continuance, if I need more time to figure it out?

Best,- A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks, Conrad - OK, will do, but that will require retrieving all my paperwork from "his" accountant. Good thing we have a few weeks before April 15th, or I guess I could file for a continuance, if I need more time to figure it out?
> 
> Best,- A12


Is his accountant a personal friend?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Is his accountant a personal friend?


Well, it is an accountant at the CPA partnership (based in Lesburg, VA) he has used since before we met -- his taxes are a nightmare in terms of complexity, compared to mine because he runs a small business. So technically, it is "his" accountant, though I don;t think they are social friends.

My H just got back to me, by phone, and told me the response from the accoutant was that my hefty bill was due to a number of factors that caused him to "mis-underestimate" my capital gains tax liability on the proceeds from the sale of my rental property. So it reportedly a one time thing, all to do with the property sale, nothing to do with underwith-holding on payroll (in fact if you take the property sale out of the equation, I would be getting a refund). 

He said also contended that running the numbers filing as "normal" married (is there such a thing? - LOL!), would not impact the capital gains calculation at all, but I am free to double check, and will likely do so. 

Thanks, Conrad!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

Sounds like you got your arms around it but I agree with Conrad, get a second opinion, not because you don't trust H but just to ensure no one made a mistake. Still sounds like a lot of dough....

Sorry you've had such a stressful day. 

I'm okay, I just picked up D2 at school and we're in "Awful Studio" watching Sesame Street and eating popcorn, which she keeps squashing into the carpet. Oh, WTH. We are still miles apart on custody, I want 50 50, WS wants much much less for me. We shall see.

Talk to you soon,

BW


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

AW - good luck with this! Financial "surprises" are a nightmare for me. Sounds like you are taking the right steps though.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

A bit of history from my divorce.

My ex's brother was our accountant. When he discovered we were splitting up, he quit doing my business taxes - basically dropped me in the middle of a quarter and I incurred a $200.00 penalty from the State associated with the transition.

Of course, when I heard how the split was going down, I was to owe all taxes for the business, while ex and I were to split any monies due on the personal return.

Suffice it to say, I took the "maximum" hit on the personal return and the business ended up owing nothing.

Big surprise, eh?

Offer me a 50% discount on taxes and I'll take it.

It would not surprise me at all to find some similar chicanery in A12's situation.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

But what does my H or the accountant stand to beneft, if he is trying to financialy crew me, other than a revenge thing (which thankfully, isn't my H's style)? I will be writing check to the federal IRS and to the state of Virginia, not to my H, so it is not like he or the accountant stand to benefit from making me pay more than I should fairly owe, right? Still I will get a second opinion. Thanks!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12 -
> 
> I'm okay, I just picked up D2 at school and we're in "Awful Studio" watching Sesame Street and eating popcorn, which she keeps squashing into the carpet. Oh, WTH. We are still miles apart on custody, I want 50 50, WS wants much much less for me. We shall see.
> 
> BW


Lovely you are spending a peaceful evening with your little sweetie -- have fun! When does your WS get served papers, making your terms official, or has that already happened? You should DEFINITELY not settle for less that 50/50 on custody, no way Jose!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> But what does my H or the accountant stand to beneft, if he is trying to financialy crew me, other than a revenge thing (which thankfully, isn't my H's style)? I will be writing check to the federal IRS and to the state of Virginia, not to my H, so it is not like he or the accountant stand to benefit from making me pay more than I should fairly owe, right? Still I will get a second opinion. Thanks!


I just believe there are as many ways to prepare taxes as there are accountants.

The idea of you owing that kind of jack and him getting a refund because he's "filing separately" doesn't pass the smell test.


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Conrad said:


> I just believe there are as many ways to prepare taxes as there are accountants.
> 
> The idea of you owing that kind of jack and him getting a refund because he's "filing separately" doesn't pass the smell test.


Nope. Smells bad. Filing jointly will not get him a nice refund so hes decided to do what is best for him. I can tell you one thing I have learned Kim, don't trust your ex no matter how smooth things are going. ...he is your ex and its time to detach and not think of him as a friend. People do some shady things when going through a divorce. Things they normally would never do. So look out for #1, which is you. ...nows the time to be selfish


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Good morning, all. OK, so here is the latest dialogue with my H on the tax returns.

He emails me last night: "One final thought on the taxes. I can have C. [his accountant] not electronically file your taxes and you can take his work and all your forms and have them reviewed by your tax guy. I want you to be comfortable with the tax return. I can have C. do your taxes the old fashioned way and you can sign the forms and send in the money when you are satisfied with the numbers."

Yah, right!!! How stupid does he think I am just glossing this over and assuming I am OK with "Married Filing Single" before getting all the facts - LOL! So I wrote back just now:

"Good Morning, M. - 

Thanks so much for wanting me to feel comfortable with the tax return -- much appreciated! What would actually really help me out here is if you could kindly have C. run the numbers and provide his professional attestation in writing as to a comparative analysis of the prospective outcome for each of us under the "Married Filing Jointly" vs. "Married Filing Single" scenario. I understand C. has advised that the latter option is more beneficial, and you have surmised that it would not make a difference for me under either filing option in terms of my tax liability for the capital gains income from the DC property sale. 

However, because such a large sum of money is involved I would really feel better seeing in writing from C. this comparative analysis of our respective tax return outcomes under the two filing options, please. I would like him to please verify that it will not make a diffference either way for me, whether we file under one option or the other. If such analysis is going to cost more for C's time and services, I am happy to chip in for that just let me know. 

Please understand, I'm not trying to be contrary or difficult -- this is simply for my peace of mind, so that we will both be operating with all the facts. You have always taken the lead on our taxes and been our point of contact with C. (which I truly appreciate!). Would you like to please ask him the above request, or should I?

Thanks so much! Have a great day, and please feel free to call with any questions or concerns."

How about that -- next chess move on him  

Cheers, - A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Too much talk!

Hire someone and review it! 

Don't trust either of them.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Too much talk!
> 
> Hire someone and review it!
> 
> Don't trust either of them.


A12,

Talk less - do more.

Methinks he doth protest too much


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, points taken -- I want to have it independently reviewed, but I think I am scared of rocking the boat and ticking him off or escalating an argument. He pushed back when I suggested independent review over the phone yesterday, saying it was just going to cost me more money and he doesn't want me "messing up" "his" tax return -- um, we are still married until you divorce me, my love! 

The paperwork is all with H's accountant -- how do I best get my hands on it so I can have it reviewed? Should I contact H's accountant directly myself and tell him I will need all the paperwork, plus his proposed return, so I can have it reviewed? I am afraid of making my H angry with me. Weak, I know!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>I think I am scared of rocking the boat and ticking him off or escalating an argument.<<

C'mon you cute little codependent fixer.

Stand up for yourself

Get your own accountant.

Have that accountant contact H's accountant.

All businesslike - you know?


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12, why on earth would you worry about making H angry at this stage? And what you're asking is totally reasonable.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12, why on earth would you worry about making H angry at this stage? And what you're asking is totally reasonable.


You know why.

You were there no less than 3 weeks ago


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh.... Yeah.....


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

BW has a new found sense of confidence.

Three weeks ago might as well be 3 years ago.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Can't deny it, GP. 

A12, sorry if I sounded judgmental. Power's gone to my head already.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Well I totally understand and my jaw is dropping that it was even pointed out.. I didnt even see it.... I have so far to go still....


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> BW has a new found sense of confidence.
> 
> Three weeks ago might as well be 3 years ago.


Ask ReGroup and Zillard.

This is how it works.

Every... single... time.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Don't sell yourself short, DoYou. By tonite I could relapse and be the quivering mass of eunuch I was a short time ago. But I'll sure try not to. 

A12, go with your gut.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12, why on earth would you worry about making H angry at this stage? And what you're asking is totally reasonable.


Because I don't want to hurt chances of R, however remote.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Being assertive and standing up for yourself will not hinder your
chances but it will keep you from getting fleeced.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Fabulous reply!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Because I don't want to hurt chances of R, however remote.


You'll be more attractive to him by not being a doormat.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Update: He emailed a curt reply, saying he would submit my request to the acountant and have him send this info and bill me separately for the extra time. So I called him, and he acted all huffy and indignant, saying you can just go prepare your own taxes then. So that started an argument, because no, I cannot -- because that assumes we are filing singly, I first need to see comparison of the singly vs. jointly options. He got really angry, dropping "F" bombs, reciting how generous and lenient he has been in terms of the financial claims he "could have" concerning our separation agreement and real estate dealings, how he has always paid for the tax accountant and saying "you talk about R but meanwhile here you go fighting me over a couple thousand bucks." He also laid into me about how I screwed up our marriage, and would not let me get a word in edgewise. I said I did not mean to make him angry and I do appreciate all that he has done, but as a couple we have always shared costs and never nickled and dimed each other -- for example I carry the cost of his health insurance premiums, and never minded doing so. That got his attention and seemed to restore some calm and rationality. I said I wished we had better communication, and it was not my intention to argue or disrespect him -- I just wanted complete information, and I am doing the best I can.

Ughhhh!!! It was a mistake sending him that email in the first place. 
I wish I had seen Conrad's advice first, and had followed it -- just hire my own accountant and have my accountant deal directly with H's accountant. Now I've pissed off my H and probably hurt chances of R, but you know what? He has told me several times he is "not angry with me anymore" but this conversation made it crystal clear that is BS -- he is still plenty angry and his anger goes far beyond the issue at hand of the taxes. If he can't get over it, I'm only going to remain his health insurance carrier for so long.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Don't engage in the blamshifting and jockeying for the victim chair.

I am sorry you feel that way.

I will still need a second opinion from my accountant.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, so I have verified with another accountant that the capital gains tax liability does not vary regardless of which way we file our returns. So now I have stepped in a pile of crap by pissing off my H for no reason, as I could have checked on this without running it through him. Arrgghhh!!!

At any rate, I sent my H a note saying I am OK for to ahead and file per his accountant's recommendation, and apologizing for any miscommunication or creating any friction as that was my last intention. He wrote back saying the accountant will have both returns done in a day or so and he is going to send my part directly to me, with clear instructions inside on where to sign and what amounts to send where. He congratulated me on a recent work victorty, and said "any questions, call me."

So at least it was back to a more cordial tone.

I have a new question now. The last time he sent me an "I'm filing" email and told me he would be dropping off the paperwork, I asked him to please also drop off his set of keys and FOB. But then when he back-peddled on the D talk (for the umpteenth time now), my request about the keys did not get addressed. I have needlessly peeved him enough for now, so I will leave it alone for the moment. I do need to get the condo building access FOB back at some point, but as for the keys, I can always change the locks. He is no longer on the title of the re-financed condo, it is my house now -- so why should he hang on to the FOB and keys? It creeps me out that he hasn't given them back to me. I will have the locks changed and can ask for the FOB again the next time he tells me he is filing :-( 

Best, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

God, after all this time, I still have my walker H on a pedestal and allowing him to pulling my strings. It is insane. But every time I think I cannot stand this any more, I have to file myself to put an end to it, I am told by my friends that getting the D will not end the painful feelings, you may regret it like you regretted changing back to your maiden name during an "anger" phase back in October, feeling so powerless and grasping for something I could "control." Grabbing control does not feel better, only time and acceptance can do that, right? I clearly need more IC.

Best,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

I think time and acceptance are the real answers but I disagree about trying to gain some control back. 

It's not that you're grabbing control from him, you're really refusing to allow him total control. In my case, my moves with a lawyer and saying I easing fact prepared to go all the way with the divorce made a huge difference in attitude with WS. 

If you finally get fed up and decide to file, you can always decide later to tear up the papers.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> God, after all this time, I still have my walker H on a pedestal and allowing him to pulling my strings. It is insane. But every time I think I cannot stand this any more, I have to file myself to put an end to it, I am told by my friends that getting the D will not end the painful feelings, you may regret it like you regretted changing back to your maiden name during an "anger" phase back in October, feeling so powerless and grasping for something I could "control." Grabbing control does not feel better, only time and acceptance can do that, right? I clearly need more IC.
> 
> Best,- A12


sorry Hun, It just stinks....I have fought for some control also but it was needed. Choose your battles wisely, dont be afraid to assert some independence. Fight for your identity, fight for your self-respect. I figure this is not only a time for me to do an outward makeover but a much needed inward one. I am no longer going to let my stbxh define who I am or determine my value. You need to stop "worrying" about the R, like the guys said. Work on yourself and see what happens along the way. It was ok to question him, you were trying to protect yourself because your foundation in what you can trust has been shaken. If anything he should understand that you’re not used to handling it and you weren’t sure what to do, you just wanted to make sure of a couple of things.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Awakening - sorry that was the response you received. I went through the similar emotions earlier on whether asserting my rights would antagonize STBX and hurt chances of R. 

Things would go smoothly until I did not allow myself to get stepped on and then STBX would get angry as I was "making things difficult". Basically, I was screwing up her plan to walk quickly and guilt-free with no real repercussions to her.

I soon realized R was off the table so I had to do what was best for me and the boys.

Not saying that is your case but I have seen first-hand also if WS receives any pushback from the LBS, it's always the LBS' fault for the anger (according to STBX).


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

soca70 said:


> Awakening - sorry that was the response you received. I went through the similar emotions earlier on whether asserting my rights would antagonize STBX and hurt chances of R.
> 
> Things would go smoothly until I did not allow myself to get stepped on and then STBX would get angry as I was "making things difficult". Basically, I was screwing up her plan to walk quickly and guilt-free with no real repercussions to her.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kind words, Soca -- very helpful observations. I wish I knew if R was ever or will ever be on the table in my case. And if not, I wish he would pulll the D trigger! So far I've only had the agony of him repeatedly flip-flopping on whether he is going to file for D, with not a lot of communication in between these episodes. He has never shown me any actions toward R, and has refused MC from Day One. He does go to IC, but sees the same stupid therapist he has been going to since before I met him, which has not helped him gain the least bit of growth or insight one bit that I can see. The only recent development that I thought may be promising was him going to Al-Anon, but I don't know if that continues and it is not approppriate for me to ask. 

You are such a caring, thoughtful Dad, and have navigated your difficult situation with such grace and class -- you are truly an inspiration to me 

Best Wishes, - A12


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Its over. Sooner you accept it the sooner you will be better.... I promise you will look back on this and be glad it happened.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, so are you saying I should file, and that by doing so it will help me accept that it is over and move on?


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> OK, so are you saying I should file, and that by doing so it will help me accept that it is over and move on?


No one knows if it’s over but you and your H. You do have to, like me be content with disconnecting for now with him. But your hope is for an R right? And your H has not filed? So there is hope. It’s not over until it’s over, but meanwhile all these previous post to you (and to me) are about disconnecting and becoming the person we want to be right? You can’t work on him, you can’t change him, you can’t control his actions. You can over think it and try and "guess" what he’s doing what he's thinking and fit your actions into your guessing but how is that going to work for you? 

Until you know for sure which way this is going to go, do not give any more effort or thought to it being about him. You’re still married and because you are hoping for a R, you live by those guidelines ethically and morally, but you improve yourself as much as you can and you build your life without him in it for now. As Chuck has said he will notice. If the time comes when you’re sure you want to put a time limit on the separation then do it. You don’t have to hang in limbo. It’s ok for you to be struggling with this but its ok also for you to want a R.

just my opinion.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, DYRC2! I appreciate both the validation that it is OK to go either way with this, and the reminder in the meanwhile to work on myself and making my life as happy and useful as it can be.

I'll go catch up on your thread, but in your situation, are you still in a position of leaving the door open for R?

((((Hugs))))) A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

It is what it is until it isn't.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

No, I’m the one that asked him to leave and filed for D. I have tried for way to many years. I was willing to give 2nd and 3rd chances when I believed that it was what he truly wanted. But I told him I just became an enabler and a co-dependent. he has shone me his choises better then he ever told me. Its time to give those roles up and become a different me. I’m scared, I’ve lived this way a long time, but it has to be done.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Wow, DYRC2 - I just perused your thread and I am so sorry for the pain you have been through!!! You are very courageous and awesome lady, and will do fantastic in your beautiful new chapter -- there is no doubt of that!

Hugs, A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Wow, DYRC2 - I just perused your thread and I am so sorry for the pain you have been through!!! You are very courageous and awesome lady, and will do fantastic in your beautiful new chapter -- there is no doubt of that!
> 
> Hugs, A12


Thank you so much!! Im counting on it but every day is a challenge and I certainly have my doubts.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Small update from limbo-land: No communication with H since our tax discussion last week (which did not go so well), but at least that matter has now been settled. I returned late last evening from a 3-day family visit to my home town in Minnesota, and there was a notice on my mail box that there was a "hand delivered document" waiting for me at the front desk -- but by then the front desk staff had gone for the night, so I could not fetch 
it until this morning at 8:00am. So my anxiety level was on overdrive last night, and it was not a very restful evening -- because I was sure the "document" was going to be the D papers. 

But I went downstairs to get the "document" this morning, and it was not a "document" at all, but an envelope with his keys and FOB in it -- just him returning his keys, per my request after his most recent (this was the 3rd or 4th) fake (later retracted) D overture exactly 2 weeks ago. 

Jeeze. I am glad to have the kesys and FOB back, which makes me feel better, because I don't think he would try to pull anything creepy or mean, but it was just weird and uncomfortable for him to still have access to what is now officially "my" house, not "ours." 

Question: Do I just say nothing, and stay silent, or send him a text "thanks for returning the keys"? What is the proper thing to do? 

I'm trying not to overthink it or ruminate on it, but in my head I am thinking this must be the prelude to D. Lord have mercy, he has really drawn this long slow torture out to make it as excrutiatingly painful as possible on me. I am envious of those who make a clean, quick break!!! 

Helpfully, however, my family did give me some things to think about. They questioned why should I want to stay married to a man who is not committed to me? Though it is natural for family to defend their own loved one during a split, they even questioned whether he was ever a good match for me, calling him "shallow," "superficial," "not genuine," -- a person who puts on an act or keeps up a front for appearances, but has no real substance to him because he does not know who he is (!!!). I never saw him this way, but it got me thinking... My brother added that when he met some of H's friends at our wedding, he thought they were "an appalling group of people." These comments shocked me, because I thought that our different ways of being complimented each other and was part of the attraction (he is smart and savvy business-wise and educated, but not an intellectual per se -- for example I never once saw him read a book in all the time I knew him). 

Whatever, I loved that he was a masculine "guy's guy" and was wildly attracted to him and still am. 

Go about my life and stay silent and let it play out, or file myself so I can stop carrying around this big bag of heavy rock and be done with it -- that's the question....

Best,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12 -

Sorry you're still so much in LimboLand....

I would send a short text saying, thaks for the keys. No real point at going NC now.

Your family is right. Why WOULD you want to be with a man who doesn't want you? That doesn't make it any less painful, I know....

I would set a specific date, say 1 May; nothing from him, then I'd file.


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

He probably has a copy of the key just in case. I would change the locks to be sure.


----------



## Annie 54 (Mar 24, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> The email I have been expecting has arrived tonight (copied below). I am dying inside and though I should have been prepared with what to say to this, I am now at a loss. How can he still profess to these feelings (crying, telling me I will always be in his heart?), yet he could not, would not lift a finger in these 9 months apart to give our marriage a chance, not even a single MC session after 7 years together?
> 
> I am heartbroken that he did not want to try harder to save the marriage, and could really use counsel as to how I should respond, if at all. There is and has not been anyone else, I am very certain. But it seems at this point undignified to resist in the least? Needless to say, I am disappointed to be having this discussion with him via email -- how cowardly. Could he not have the grace do this in person or at the very least on the phone after all we have meant to each other?
> 
> ...


Hi there I too received a message from my X via letter .... came home in my lunch hour as the heating had gone down at work... to find a letter saying much the same as your e mail... I love but am no longer in love with you ( we had been married for 30 years) devastation doe's not cover it.... how to move forward ... easy to say now a year on but just do one day at a time ... get up breath in and out cry if you need to scream on a lonely beach what ever works ..... Fill your days see friends leave job's to do for the days when you are feeling low .... go back to a hobby I have begun painting again and it has opened up a whole new world .... right a to do list... and start at the top... it WILL get easier in time and you will feel better and then you life will open up to others ...I now have a lovely man we walk talk and take it slow ... 
x


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Annie 54 - 

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words! I am sorry you had to go through this, but it is comforting to know people do recover, move on and get to a better place. I am happy for you, that you have a great guy in your life. I have struggled to feel there can ever be any one else for me, but hoping I'll get there -- as you say, a day at a time  

Warmly, A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Update du jour: I went ahead and emailed my H a short "thanks" for dropping of the keys and for his help with the tax returns. I got that done today, and handed over large sums of money to the Fed and State government (plus a small contribution to the DC government for my last taxes I will ever owe them, now that my rental property there has been sold). I am not one of those people who have a problem paying taxes -- I may not always agree with how they allocate our tax dollars, I feel it is my duty to my country and beleive there are some important "common good" roles for governance (roads, bridges, first responders, education and social safety net progams that do serve the common good) not a whole sale anti-government person. I sure made a large donation this year, owing to my capital gains windfall, and hope it gets put to good use  

H had been close to my (aging, health growing frail) Dad, and sent a sweet pic of my Dad with his cute bithday cake, candles lit, his smiling face. Re-capped the bitter sweetness of that family gathering, and related how it helped me understand how hard it must have been on him and his family when his Da'd health started failing in the years before we met.

He wrote back a warm and friendly note, with no relationship discussion and some advice about shifting more of my Fidelity funds back into mutal funds or money market funds. I have really got to get more educated about those things and realize I cannot rely on him anymore to be my fiancial advisor (he is great with that stuff, and always helped manage mine in the past). 

I have to beome OK with losing him, as I read in another post. And I think I am getting closer. I can't be dreading opening my email or having anxiety picking up mail at home, waiting for the axe to fall with the D papers.

I still love him, and never wanted D. But I hear everyonem that it takes two -- and I don't want to live this way anymore. I want to put this negativity, this energy drain behind me and start looking forward, not back. It has reached the point where I constantrly fear what I will find opening my email and picking up my mail after work each night, dreading the D "axe" is over my head and can fall any time.

Tenously sitting with this until I'm not, - A12


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

I would start doing the 180. No need to contact him unless its business....and if he calls you, don't answer. Ignore him. Make him wonder. He knows he can see you any time he wants. You guys have no kids so there is no reason to talk unless its about divorce...... In the end no matter what happens, you will be better and stronger.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, MSC71 - 

Much appreciated, and good points. That e-mail exchange with my H yesterday did make me feel better, insofar as accepting that I have really done everything I can (in fact way too much!) to try and save the marriage. I will stay silent. However, if he tries to contact me -- while I won't come running or answer immediately, I do feel like if I am ultimately hoping for R I have to be responsive and show respect, right? Let him see that I am working on myself and bettering myself and my life. Not that it is likely to happen anytime soon, but what if he wants to process more or even talk R? Why would I want to turn that off? Also, if I don't answer for days and days he'll probably think I may have relapsed and fell off the balcony, and might send the ER - LOL!  

As of now, I'm giving it until the end of April to see some progress. If nothing happens, I will file to help myself feel more free to move on, emotionally. 

Hope you are well!

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi A12,

You are right, it is not fair for your H to be putting you through this. It does not seem like he is doing much to get better himself, and that is really crucial. If he is only running things through his head over and over, he won't make any progress.

I am in a bit of limbo myself, but I'm attending 2-3 meetings a week, meet with my sponsor once a week, go to IC once a week. I am also treating my H with respect, being a good wife and supporting his recovery fully. I'm doing my part. Your H is not doing his.

I agree that you should set a deadline. You can just have it with yourself. You might want to say something your H something like "I love you dearly, I do not want a divorce. But it is killing me wondering if every letter or email I receive from you is going to be D papers. It is not healthy for me to live this way. I understand the hurt I have caused you and how conflicted you feel. I hope you are getting the support you need either in Al-Anon or in IC to help you through this." You can get your point across without giving an ultimatum or telling him what he should be doing.

Hope things get better, I am praying for you.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Update du jour: I went ahead and emailed my H a short "thanks" for dropping of the keys and for his help with the tax returns. I got that done today, and handed over large sums of money to the Fed and State government (plus a small contribution to the DC government for my last taxes I will ever owe them, now that my rental property there has been sold). I am not one of those people who have a problem paying taxes -- I may not always agree with how they allocate our tax dollars, I feel it is my duty to my country and beleive there are some important "common good" roles for governance (roads, bridges, first responders, education and social safety net progams that do serve the common good) not a whole sale anti-government person. I sure made a large donation this year, owing to my capital gains windfall, and hope it gets put to good use
> 
> Dislike
> 
> ...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi oregonmom - 

Thanks so much for your kind words and prayers! Your perspective is always so thoughtful, and very helpful for me. 

He does do IC twice a month, last he told me. However, it is with the same crap therapist he has been seeing for like 10 years now --since he sought help for depression around the time his dad died, a couple of years before I met him. Who am I to say "crap therapist," and maybe I am wrong -- glad he's at least doing something, anything to help sort himself out. However, I can tell you I have not seen him gain one shred of insight or growth from his work with that therapist. Maybe it does help him, what do I know? But I could never detect it doing much for him in all the time I've known him. I just think doing the same thing will not get you different or better results, but not my call. Around the end of February, there was what I considered at least a small positive step, when -- following one of those flip-flop episdoes where he talks D, then retracts -- he told me he was going to attend an Al-Anon meeting. I encouraged him on that, becasue it is something he has always refused in the past and an action that would be FAR outside his comfort zone. He called a couple night later asking if he could come over (!). He seemed to just want to process, and he told me had had been to two (!) Al-Anon meetings, one of them a men's meeting. He said he cried at the meetings, and he cried some more talking to me about it. I cried too. OMG, you can imagine what a piece of crap it made me feel like, how much it stirred up all my shame and guilt and remorse -- I still tear up just thinking about it. I tried to be supportive and encouraging and told him I thought it was really healthy that he is opening up and releasing his feelings. 

But two weeks later (mid-March) he did the agonizing the flip-flop once again! Gahhh!!!

I have no idea if he continued going to Al-Anon or not. I go to several (women's) meetings a week, talk with my sponsor daily and do Big Book study with her. As long as I can, I will respect his space and time to figure out what he wants. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to work on bettering myself, valuing my own worth and building on that, come what may.

I hope all is going well for you. I admire all the growth you've clearly achieved and how well you've handled yourself.

Warmly, - A12


----------



## LovingHusband414 (Feb 8, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> In the meanwhile, I'll continue to work on bettering myself, valuing my own worth and building on that, come what may.


Absolutely!! Don't worry about him, take care of yourself and look towards the future as a better you!! You might have to wear shades


----------



## Annie 54 (Mar 24, 2013)

Hi I agree you have no children so no need to maintain daily even weekly contact... the more days that you manage to get through without seeing him talking or even reading an email WILL make it easier ... try only looking at emails every other day or once a week if possible ... set up a new account give it to your friends so they can still talk and then it's easier not to log on to the old life ..... take every opportunity to go out ask friends round for a meal....You will wake up one day and He will not be your first thought .... I still have to maintain contact with my X as we have 4 children if we did not I would have been on the next plane out of here .... plan a trip go somewhere you have always wanted to go .... Look in the mirror every morning and say I am a good person I deserve the best that life can give me and I as the saying rightly says what doe's not kill you most defiantly makes you stronger......


----------



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the kind words too A12 

I love hearing you insight because we are on the opposite sides of things, but also very alike. You are working really hard, as am I. I wish my H was as serious about things as you are, I think you wish your H was as serious about things as I. If I could put your attitude in my H, I'd give my marriage a 95% chance of surviving 

It is good he is going to IC, but regardless if it is a good therapist or not, I think 10 years is too long to be seeing the same one. He has changed, life has changed, and it is helpful to get a new perspective that is not muddled in who he was so long ago. I go to IC at the local university and it is grad students in their last year, they do their intern work there. I had my first therapist for 4 months and loved her, she was so helpful and I changed a lot in that 4 months. I've now had my new therapist for 9 months and I love her too! She is just awesome. I hate to see her go in 3 months, but I also know how different I am again now. My new therapist will have an untainted view of the new me. I think it keeps me moving forward instead of living in the past. 

I remember you saying he went to Al-Anon a few times, and that is really good. I will say in my personal experience, I didn't really "get" it for a few months even after faithful meetings and reading tons of literature (I think I have every brochure and 5 books lol). I sure thought I got it the first few weeks...detachment! Oh wait, _loving_ detachment  Stuff like that. It takes awhile for it to really sink in. That is why they say newcomers can be so dangerous. I'm glad he is doing something, but he isn't giving it his all. It is hard to make a decision when they are going halfway (I'd say my H goes halfway too). If it was nothing, it's easier to move on. Seeing those spots of brightness gives hope.


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks, MSC71 -
> 
> Much appreciated, and good points. That e-mail exchange with my H yesterday did make me feel better, insofar as accepting that I have really done everything I can (in fact way too much!) to try and save the marriage. I will stay silent. However, if he tries to contact me -- while I won't come running or answer immediately, I do feel like if I am ultimately hoping for R I have to be responsive and show respect, right? Let him see that I am working on myself and bettering myself and my life. Not that it is likely to happen anytime soon, but what if he wants to process more or even talk R? Why would I want to turn that off? Also, if I don't answer for days and days he'll probably think I may have relapsed and fell off the balcony, and might send the ER - LOL!
> 
> ...


No doubt you want to show respect. Just don't be so accessible. I'm telling you that ignoring him and acting like you don't care is your best shot..........the best part is when you start doing this it makes you stronger. The 180 is really for you. But at the same time it gives you the best chance for R. Think of it this way.....what you have been doing up to this point is not working. You are still in the same boat you were in 6 months ago. In major limbo waiting on him to dictate where your next chapter of life is going. So focus in yourself and I promise you he will notice.....it may not lead to R , but it will get his attention. And don't think by ignoring him you are being mean. Its like reverse psychology.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

MSC71 said:


> The 180 is really for you. But at the same time it gives you the best chance for R. Think of it this way.....what you have been doing up to this point is not working. You are still in the same boat you were in 6 months ago. In major limbo waiting on him to dictate where your next chapter of life is going. So focus in yourself and I promise you he will notice.....it may not lead to R , but it will get his attention. And don't think by ignoring him you are being mean. Its like reverse psychology.


Hi MSC71- 

Thanks, I think I understand better. Just wanted to ask, if you are comfortable sharing, did you utilize the 180 in your situation, and did you feel it ultimately helped you?

Warmly, A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Who knows if he will change his mind yet again, I agree, all you can do is work on you but don’t get to impatient either, he is not on your time schedule for growing and you are not on his. If you don’t want a D right now, just relax and live your life as a separated woman and see what way he goes but I would do the NC and keep working on you.

On my front, I got to my house at about 9pm last night and my stbxh's jeep was in driveway, my heart dropped to the bottom of my stomach. Haven’t seen him in a month, did not want a confrontation. However house looked dark, what the heck is going on? My son's car was gone so I knew he wasn’t home. Only the dogs were there, no sign of stbxh. Jeep still there this morning, I can only surmise that he dropped of his Jeep to keep it at the house for the two weeks he is going to be in Texas rather then keep it at the stbow's house. Why? Doesn’t trust her sons maybe? What kind of a message would that send to OW, I rather keep my belongings at my stbxw's?


----------



## LovingHusband414 (Feb 8, 2013)

A12,

I have been focusing on the 180 for a couple weeks now. I don’t contact my W at all unless it is about our son. If she texts me, I will wait a minimum of 15 min. to text her back, usually longer depending on what it’s about, and keep my responses short and dispassionate, almost as if I’m talking with an insurance rep or tax accountant. It’s been two weeks but my W texted me the most random thing on Monday, observing from 50,000 ft. I got the impression she was fishing for chit chat. All I do know is that I have been feeling better about myself and the future over the past couple weeks.

However, I am also completely with you on how to handle being responsive and showing respect when I am contacted. For me, whenever she does contact me with something not related to our son (like she did on Monday), based on our history, it’s like she is reaching out to process more or missing me and wanted to open the door to a little more conversation. I don’t know for sure, I’m learning that, staying at 50,000 ft. and observing, seeing what her actions say.

It’s tough at times but keep focusing on you, do what YOU feel is right, what makes YOU happy! No #3’s!!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

oregonmom said:


> It is good he is going to IC, but regardless if it is a good therapist or not, I think 10 years is too long to be seeing the same one.


:iagree: I agree, but what can I do? I don't think it will be helpful for me to push him in any way, and that includes me suggesting he consider changing therapists. :scratchhead: At any rate, I'm NC on my side of the street for now. 

I suppressed the urge to email him this morning, because I was excited I was able to make my own trades in my Fidelity account, thanks to his helpful instructions. He is great with finances and always managed both of our investemnt portfolios, but now I have to learn to do it myself, so I appreciated him teaching me the basics of how to do it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi DYRC2 - 



doureallycare2 said:


> Who knows if he will change his mind yet again, I agree, all you can do is work on you but don’t get to impatient either, he is not on your time schedule for growing and you are not on his. If you don’t want a D right now, just relax and live your life as a separated woman and see what way he goes but I would do the NC and keep working on you.
> 
> Exactly, that's what I plan to do -- thanks.
> 
> On my front, I got to my house at about 9pm last night and my stbxh's jeep was in driveway, my heart dropped to the bottom of my stomach. Haven’t seen him in a month, did not want a confrontation. However house looked dark, what the heck is going on? My son's car was gone so I knew he wasn’t home. Only the dogs were there, no sign of stbxh. Jeep still there this morning, I can only surmise that he dropped of his Jeep to keep it at the house for the two weeks he is going to be in Texas rather then keep it at the stbow's house. Why? Doesn’t trust her sons maybe? What kind of a message would that send to OW, I rather keep my belongings at my stbxw's?


This is really odd and I can see why you would find it perplexing -- not to mention rude and intrusive to have his vehicle taking up space in your driveway! Are you going to stay NC, or say something abou this, such as "WTF"? LOL!

Warmly, - A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I’m still trying to do NC. I don’t want to be the one reaching out. He has gone from sending me emails and texts several times a day to virtually NC, The only thing I have gotten from him this past month was the email 2 weeks ago about the recalled tuna. (?) 
And now then the email on his B-day of my dogs at possibly the ow's house. He would normally have talked to me about what bills he has paid (or tell me to go ahead and pay out of joint account), my car, house, etc... nothing....so if he doesn’t want to even tell me about the basics of financial things that I’m depending on right now, screw it. I still try way too hard to figure out what is going on in his head... what does this mean, what does that mean...I still worry too much about him holding up to his part of the financial bargain and that puts me under his thumb. Meanwhile bill collectors for our cars are calling the home phone # for "him" because the loans are in his name and leaving message’s several times a day. I’m tempted to answer and give his cell phone #, let him deal with it in Texas.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Morning, Miss 12.

Watching your thread, keeping an eye on your "status" - hang tough, kid.

Previous posters are right - your situation was made forr this whole 180 thing.

Go Bruins.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle! I hope your day is going well, too -- looks like you've still got quite the rollercoaster going on your end, but you are handling it like a champ.



Bullwinkle said:


> Go Bruins.


Hey, now! My Capitals will see to your Bruins Saturday April 27 at the frozen phone booth (Verizon Center)! 

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, 12.

I saw where you'd given it till the end of April to consider filing. You may feel differently then for whatever reason but I think you have to make this whole thing finite at some point. It all sounds vaguely cruel to me, the dragging it out thing. 

You never know, the act of you filing may rock his comfortable status quo. My brother and his wife were separated for a long time (2 years!) and he tried and tried. Finally one day he said, that's it, and filed. A week later, she asked for him to consider a reconciliation. 

In any event, you are dealing with all of this better than the rest of us, you're making us look bad!!!!


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> Hi MSC71-
> 
> Thanks, I think I understand better. Just wanted to ask, if you are comfortable sharing, did you utilize the 180 in your situation, and did you feel it ultimately helped you?
> 
> Warmly, A12


It helped me a ton. It did not lead to R which I did want at first. But eventually I got to the point where I did not want it....why be with someone who I have to convince to be with me? Why try to work on something that the other person won't work on? Some of the questions I eventually started asking myself after.I started doing the 180 and detaching.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi MSC71 - 

Thank you, those are the right questions to be asking, I realize. You give them their time and space and go about your life, but at some point you stop caring. Guess I'm not there yet -- I may need at least another month of being judged, rejected and neglected  

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> In any event, you are dealing with all of this better than the rest of us, you're making us look bad!!!!


Thanks, B-Dubs, but I don't know about that -- if I wasn't such a sweet little lady I think Conrad would have dumped several lumber yards on me by now, considering how stubborn and what a slow learner I have been  But I'll give myself points for endurance - LOL!

Warmly, A12


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> Hi MSC71 -
> 
> Thank you, those are the right questions to be asking, I realize. You give them their time and space and go about your life, but at some point you stop caring. Guess I'm not there yet -- I may need at least another month of being judged, rejected and neglected
> 
> Kind Regards,- A12


True. That comes at different times for everyone..... I think if you stick to your guns that point will come sooner. Just try and not focus on a certain outcome. Focus on you and what you can do for yourself right now. Do something you always wanted to do. Just don't focus on him. If he comes back or not is his choice....nothing you say or do will change that......but what you have been doing isn't working.....so ignore him. Its hard to do, I know. Been there.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

As you all know, my separation has dragged out for some time, with several flip-flops from my H, but never concrete steps towards R. Well, I got home from work tonight and fund a letter and D documents from my H in the mail. So now this is real, this is happening, and I feel surprisingly calm and accepting -- I am just so worn down by the limbo and false hope hell, I cannot take anymore. Here is what his covr letter said verbatim:

"Dear (my name), 

I'm sorry it took me so long to get this to you. This has been the most painful process I have ever undertaken, I did not mean to leave you hangining or hurt you by my procrastination. 

Your love and companionship was an amazing gift. I've often said that the early part of our marriage was the only time I felt truly content. Thank you for all the good memories. I hope the bad memories of me, the ones where I am hurtful and angry, will fade in time and you will remember me as the proud soon-to-be-husband in Key West. You were the most beautiful woman in the world on our wedding day and that is how I will remember you.

I cannot justify or explain my actions so I will not try. Please pray for me as I struggle to once again be the man you fell in love with.

I will not pretend to know what your addiction issues must be like. I will pray for you that God gives you the strength and willpower to chose life over alcohol and drugs. 

I am sorry for my part in our marriage coming undone. There are a million things I would do differently. 

But I do not regret our marriage. Our love and bond was real and I will always thank God for bringing you into my life. 

I only wish good things for you. I know you will flourish and find someone that will love you for the amazing person that you are.

Love Always, M."

So that's it. I read the agreement and am fine with it, it is not complicated as everything is already settled and there are no children. The package contained a self-addressed stamped envelope for me to date, sign and return to document to him at his address. 

I am going to do so, but my only question: Do I say nothing and just send the executed documents, no note or anything attached. Or shoud I bother saying anything, like: "I'm sorry I destroyed your faith in me and that you could not find the love, courage and strength to stand by me and see if we could find our way back to each other. I wish we had both wanted to try harder to save the marriage abd rebuild. But I respect your decision and wish you the best of luck finding your next, more perfect person to love."

Or just return the signed papers with no note, nothing? What do you think-- advice appreciated!

Best, - A12 (who is not shocked and oddly releived he finally took some action)


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Please, this seems the pivotal moment, so any advice whether to just send the papers back with no note -- nothing-- or to include some note responding to what he saiid in his note to me would be most helpful! Thanks in advance for thoughts on best course of acton, here. Just last week he was crying and say he could't do it and now this -- no heads up or anything,,, Thanks!


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I got no answers for you hun. I'm truly sorry. What a touching letter.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> I got no answers for you hun. I'm truly sorry. What a touching letter.


Punch -

Thank you. So do you advise saying nothing, and jut returning the signed papers with no note -- or should I say something, like "I am glad you reached a decision and I accept it, though I had hoped for a different outcome? That I appreciate seriously you have taken this life-changing decision. That it will always be a great sorrow and regret of my life that you gave up on me and our marriage without even trying some MC to get to why you felt it was not even worth examining what went wrong and why you think it's not salvageable?

Better to just return the signed papers with no note?

Best, A12 (hurting badly tonight)


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

I'm so sorry. But I admire your stoicism and strength. 

I would sign the papers and return them without comment. Why would a man tell you such momentous things in a letter and not to your face?

Then after a few days, I would seek him out and tell him how you really feel, one on one, face to face.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Punch -
> 
> Thank you. So do you advise saying nothing, and jut returning the signed papers with no note -- or should I say something, like "I am glad you reached a decision and I accept it, though I had hoped for a different outcome? That I appreciate seriously you have taken this life-changing decision. That it will always be a great sorrow and regret of my life that you gave up on me and our marriage without even trying some MC to get to why you felt it was not even worth examining what went wrong and why you think it's not salvageable?
> 
> ...


I would not say all that. Just sign it. If you see him tell him it's not what you
want but you will respect his wishes. So sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, thanks guys -- that was my initial inclination. No words anymore at this point -- he knows full well how I feel, and has made up is mind. Which I respect more than the flip-flopping and keeping me in limbo. Who knows? Based on his past behavior it wouldn't surprise me if we see another flip-flop or dragging of feet. He knows that despite my failings he could do worse than me, and I still have lots to offer. Let me take this step with no reaction and seeing he follows through -- I'm prepared either way to deal and accept. Can't thank you all enough for now helpful you have been in one of the roughest times of my life!

Best Wishes, A12 (hurting but not broken!)


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that silence is your only avenue with this. He WANTS you to respond, wherein you either tacitly forgive him or get really pissy, where he can then say, look what a nasty number she really is. 

Quiet dignity.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12
> 
> The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that silence is your only avenue with this. He WANTS you to respond, wherein you either tacitly forgive him or get really pissy, where he can then say, look what a nasty number she really is.
> 
> Quiet dignity.


OK, thanks -- after sleeping on it and considering everyone's feed back that's what I'm going to do.

Heavy Hearted but Tired of This Drama, - A12


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah. Just sign them. Nothing you can say now that hasn't already been said. The fact that you knew this was most likely going to happen for so long makes it easier. Once this is final you can begin healing.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, will do -- thanks, MSC71.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Bullwinkle said:


> Quiet dignity.


:iagree:


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> OK, will do -- thanks, MSC71.


I promise you there will be a time where you look back at all this and you will be glad it happened....you just have to ride out this bad part. Good things are in your future.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awake,

I'm sorry for you.

I'm also admiring that you resisted the urge to grab the victim chair in response to his note.

Better days ahead.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, everyone for helping me walk through this rough time -- TAM has helped me so much! 

I mailed the signed papers (no note) this morning after making a copy. I realized this was only the "Separation and Property Settlement Agreement" -- so I take it that is just a first step, that there will be more papers coming for the actual D? I hope he doesn't drag his feet anymore -- now momentum is going, it feels right. I don't want this drama, angst and negativity in my life any longer!

Cheers, A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

His note was hard to read.

So easy to put myself in your shoes and imagining getting something similar.

I mean, the one thing nearly everyone in this forum has in common is facing the cliff - or trying to elude "The Final Dagger" - as you so elegantly put it.

My eyes get moist thinking about you today.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Gosh, Conrad, thank you. I have cried an ocean of tears and have none left. Just grit and determination to get my life back to a happier place, whatever it looks like.

I will pray that however much "trauma" I caused him (crimes against humanity, judging from the depths of his despair), he will also heal and move on. I really do want us both to be happy again, sooner than later. Life is too short to continue the self-inflicted suffering.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Listening to this on TED radio hour, a terrifically thoughtful piece on "Making Mistakes:"

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/11/174030515/making-mistakes


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> I really do want us both to be happy again, sooner than later. Life is too short to continue the self-inflicted suffering.


Hi A12.Just catching up with your thread as I haven't been on the forums much lately.Sorry for what has happened but at the same time I'm happy in that you''ll finally find some easing of the stress caused by the indecisiveness of your H.As you say,he may flip flop once again,and I'm hoping that if it does occur that you take a harder line than before.Just remember your words above.Take care and have a happy Easter!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

TBT said:


> at the same time I'm happy in that you''ll finally find some easing of the stress caused by the indecisiveness of your H.As you say,he may flip flop once again,and I'm hoping that if it does occur that you take a harder line than before.!


Thank you, TBT -- you r word of support have meant a lot to me. Hope all is well withy you, and Happy Easter! I love spring in DC  

Cheers, -A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Aww, A12.. Just got back on after a few days off. Still on Vaca at my son's babysitting my grandson today and thought I would catch up. What a painful letter yet in some ways liberating as you said. At least he admits that it wasnt all you and he has some changing and growing to do also. Im so glad you find your self at peace about it it right now but dont be surprised if you still end up on an emotional rollercoaster. Even though you were waiting for this bomb to drop so you think you were prepared it still is a shock to your system and your actually went in to survior mode. When the shock subsides you will probably shed more tears and thats ok. Im so sorry that you are going through this and that he couldnt work through it with you. He will find that every thing in his life is not that easy to run away from and he will need to learn to fight to grow.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi DYRC2 - 

Thanks so much for your kind note. I'm glad you are getting some vacation time and able to be with your grandson!

I agree, it was kind of him not to lay all the blame on me, and to frame the split as partly due to his own "issues" -- that he feels he is not the man he was before, and needs to work on himself. Still, it triggers my guilt and shame that he felt so warped and negatively affected by the recurrence of my addicition issues that he simply could not cope and chose to give up and run away instead of confronting it. Classic: Perpetrator-Victim scenario, right? 

At any rate, as I mentioned somewhere in the dialogue here, those papers I signed and returned without comment were only the "Separation and Property Settlement Agreement." So either there may still be more waffling about the actual D papers, or I may see them soon -- who knows? 

Yesterday I was thinking to myself, "You know, he is right. He has every right to fear he can never trust me again. I have taken responsibility for cleaning up my side of the street, and the rest is out of my hands. Some marriages survive episodes of addicition, some do not -- and there is not a blessed thing I can do about it, except learn from my painful mistake and move on."

The cherry blossoms will be in peak bloom this week, and summer is around the corner  Onward to the adventure of a new chapter. 

Best Wishes, A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I love cherry blossem tim e in DC.. Ive been a few times for the celebrations.. Love the MALL...Im not to far away right now. In Harrisburg enjoying the sunshine. Stay strong.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, just checking in to let you know you're in my thoughts. The way you're dealing with all of this really is an inspiration to the rest of us. 

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Thank you for checking in -- very kind of you. I am doing OK, just practicing staying in the moment, and also I try to program ahead some plans for the weekends and most evenings to keep me occupied. I'm not going to lie, it is still kind of hard adjusting to not having him in my life anymore -- this man who was the love of my life for a good many years. I miss coming home to him, sharing my life with him, his companionship, his sense of humor. And thoughts of the past sometimes still tug at me (both missing what we had when things were great, and mourning the loss of it, beating myself up over my failings). I fear being alone, and I fear I will never again know the kind of love and bond I shared with him. This being said, there are some "up" sides to living alone, and I am enjoying that independence.

Also, as you know, the papers I signed and returned were only the "Separation and Property Settlement Agreement" -- so presumably, unless he does another flip-flop (which he has done plenty of times before) I should expect to recieve the actual D papers any time now...so I still feel that dread checking my mail after work. Not a peep out of him since our last e-mail exchange a week ago, so I am just riding it out.

I am tired of the drama and want this to be done, so I can properly heal and move on. It is just hard to ever imagine opening my heart to someone else, and I am not wired to be able to separate physical and emotional intimacy. So I guess I can settle in for a nice stretch of learning to "embrace being single." I know there are plenty of women who live alone and love it -- wouldn't have it any other way! I'm going to start some new IC as well to help me with the transition to a new chapter.

I know you're not out of the woods yet with your situation, but you have come so far! I am hoping the best for you -- keep up the BW 2.0!

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

You do such a wonderful job of articulating the pain, the angst, the uncertainty....

I understand so well what you're going through. I dare say better than I would have 9-10 months ago. What I understand the best is simply being sick and tired of the drama and craving peace and resolution. Last night I watched that old movie with Tom Hanks where he's stranded on that island for years and finally comes home to discover his wife has remarried, had a baby, etc. but somehow he finds the strength to move on and accept it and to even realize there is a life ahead for him. 

Not suggesting your life is like some silly Hollywood movie but I know that you will find peace and that some lucky stiff out there will find you and then stand by you, no matte what.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, BW! Waterworks now commencing  

((((((Courage!)))))))), - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, nothing wrong with the WATERWORKS. 

Speaking of courage, remember The Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz? Throughout the movie, he desperately sought out COURAGE. And in the end, everyone, including him, realized he'd had it all along.


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

A12,

I read the letter and it was tough for me to get through. As someone in recovery for my own addictions, I have to admit that I desperately want something as simple as this letter. I'm not sure I could have handled it as you have. 

I hope things are better for you than when you received it.


----------



## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

Thinking of you A12. You've been such an inspiration to me. Seriously. Someone is definitely going to recognise what a gem you are one day but until then I think single life will be very healing for you. Now that I'm not fighting it, I really do enjoy it. Low light, burning 10 candles and incense at the moment, playing music I love - if my H was here, all the lights would be on, all the candles and incense out and the telly on some sports. I am really appreciating how peaceful it is. 
Stay in the present! xo


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Don't beat yourself up for any mistakes you made. Marriage is about sticking together through thick and thin. Your STBX bolted when times were tough. That is not what you need. You need someone who will stand by your side non matter what. Its what we all need. Its not your fault. I promise you that.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

Chopsy and MSC are exactly right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12
> 
> Chopsy and MSC are exactly right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All this this may be true, that I am not soley to blame for the demise of our marriage. But to be brutally honest with myself, I doubt that if I had not relaped we would still be happily togehter. That was a major betrayal on my part. Not to defend has abandanment and giviing up, but I a guessing from his perspective, I bailed on him and our marriage by my relaspe, and turning into a wife he did not sign up for. 

Some spouses have the guts to stand by their marriage vows of "thick snd think" and as for others, -- well I guess we should have had a clause in there if anythign bad befalls you -- stroke, disabling accidnent what have you, I reserve my right to bail. 

Thanks again for your most helpful and encouraging support!

Going with the flow -A12


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

I've found myself getting really mad when I think about the vows and for better or worse. Mostly because it's me thinking "I'm still here with everything you did or are doing!"

I know I made some pretty serious mistakes with my W, I feel that same guilt/thought process you mention. "If only I hadn't..." Sucks.

I think guts is right. It does take guts to stick it out and work to prove love trumps fear/hurt/____. That's the other side of my anger with the vows, I see it as willingness and a promise to have guts that is completely disavowed by the other.

Like 2pac said, "Keep your head up."


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> All this this may be true, that I am not soley to blame for the demise of our marriage. But to be brutally honest with myself, I doubt that if I had not relaped we would still be happily togehter. That was a major betrayal on my part. Not to defend has abandanment and giviing up, but I a guessing from his perspective, I bailed on him and our marriage by my relaspe, and turning into a wife he did not sign up for.
> 
> Some spouses have the guts to stand by their marriage vows of "thick snd think" and as for others, -- well I guess we should have had a clause in there if anythign bad befalls you -- stroke, disabling accidnent what have you, I reserve my right to bail.
> 
> ...


You don't know where you would be if you hadn't relapsed. You can't think about "what if's"


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, good afternoon, A12, hope you're well!

Was in your neck of the woods, met an old friend for lunch there today at the Carlyle, was really good. 

Go Bruins. 


BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Thanks for your kind note. Glad you had a tasty lunch at the Carlyle -- love that place, though I wish they had take out  

This morning, I did a brutal CrossFit Workout (The "Murphy" -- done in honor of Navy Lieutenant Michael Murphy, 29, of Patchogue, NY, who was KIA in Afghanistan June 28th, 2005.):
■1 mile Run
■100 Pull-ups
■200 Push-ups
■300 Squats
■1 mile Run

Then I did a volunteer shift at the local food pantry -- we bagged 3tons of bulk sweet potatoes (that's a lot of taters)!

I am now taking myself to go see a chick flick - LOL! Such is my exciting new life  

I see that my Caps are presently sitting one slot above your Bruins in the Eastern Conference -- ha! May have to get tix for when they'll face each other 4/27 at the Verizon Center! While you pahk your cah in the yahd  

Hope you are having a good weekend, and are able to enjoy some family fun time!

Best Wishes, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Forgot to ask, which chick flick did you see?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I shamelessly went to see "The Host" based on a novel I had read by Stephanie Meyers the author of the Twilight series (yes, I read all those too, and saw every one of films!). Her stores are bascially romantic fiction -- love stores. Synopsis of The Host:

"A body-snatching alien takes possession of a young woman who refuses to surrender her mind, and together they seek out the man they both love as writer/director Andrew Niccol (Gattaca, In Time) adapts Twilight author Stephenie Meyer's New York Times best-seller. The majority of the human race have been possessed by unseen invaders, leaving only small pockets of "wild" humans like Melanie (Saoirse Ronan) scattered throughout the world. Upon being captured by the invaders, Melanie finds her body claimed by Wanderer, a spirit that has been warned of the difficulties that come with claiming a human host. In the process of inhabiting Melanie, Wanderer is deeply affected by her vivid dreams and memories. And when Melanie fights to maintain control of her mind even as Wanderer possesses her body, the sympathetic entity joins her on a journey that will reveal the unfathomable depths of human love and compassion." 

I liked it, very tru to the novel -- though the love scenes made me sad, triggering the ache of missing what I had with my H, and fear I will never have again with him or anyone else. But the movie was a nice distraction!

What a beautiful day outside this Sunday! Hope you can get outdoors for some family fun!

Best Wishes, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow, actually sounds quite good, interesting premise. I may have to see it. When you said chick flick I pictured you tearing up to some awful Nicolas Sparks tale - small town in North Carolina, Jillian has known love before but is now afraid of it, when dark handsome stranger appears in town with his own mysterious past...

But I surely understand your own sense of heartache....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Nope, no "Bridges of ******* County" for me -- I'm more "Hunger Games" Katniss Everdeen type  And I will cop to liking vampire, werewolf and zombie stories/movies/shows  "The Walking Dead" series on AMC is the best!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Zombieland, with Woody Harrelson. And The Happening with Mark Wahlberg. 

My movie tastes tend to be extremely low brow. Anything with Will Farrell. Chris Farley, God rest his soul. 

But after hearing about Rhett Butler the other day, I watched Gone With the Wind. "Miss Scarlett, I don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin no babies!"


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

@BW - LOL! I can see you as Rhett Bulter in the re-make of GWTW  

If you like Will Ferell, you have to love the perrenial favority "Old School"? That one is in the must-be-watched-at-least-once-annually collection (so full of one-liners that never get old!).

Hope your weekend is going well! I just did mani-pedi and am soon going for a massage -- looking after #1, you know? ;-)

Chersm- A12


----------



## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> I shamelessly went to see "The Host" based on a novel I had read by Stephanie Meyers the author of the Twilight series (yes, I read all those too, and saw every one of films!). Her stores are bascially romantic fiction -- love stores. Synopsis of The Host:
> 
> "A body-snatching alien takes possession of a young woman who refuses to surrender her mind, and together they seek out the man they both love as writer/director Andrew Niccol (Gattaca, In Time) adapts Twilight author Stephenie Meyer's New York Times best-seller. The majority of the human race have been possessed by unseen invaders, leaving only small pockets of "wild" humans like Melanie (Saoirse Ronan) scattered throughout the world. Upon being captured by the invaders, Melanie finds her body claimed by Wanderer, a spirit that has been warned of the difficulties that come with claiming a human host. In the process of inhabiting Melanie, Wanderer is deeply affected by her vivid dreams and memories. And when Melanie fights to maintain control of her mind even as Wanderer possesses her body, the sympathetic entity joins her on a journey that will reveal the unfathomable depths of human love and compassion."
> 
> ...


I saw the same movie yesterday. Kind of made me sad too, but it was a good movie.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Great movie! "Miss Scarlett, you done had a baby, you ain't never gonna be a size six no mo!"

Old School, yes, a classic. My favorite scene is where Will Farrell gets the tranquilizer dart in the neck and falls into the pool.... And him in Wedding Crashers, "Ma, the meatloaf!"

Mani pedi good. The blue water.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Great movie! "Miss Scarlett, you done had a baby, you ain't never gonna be a size six no mo!"
> 
> Old School, yes, a classic. My favorite scene is where Will Farrell gets the tranquilizer dart in the neck and falls into the pool.... And him in Wedding Crashers, "Ma, the meatloaf!"
> 
> Mani pedi good. The blue water.


How about after he gets the tranquilizer dart to the neck, he tells he slurs to the guy, "I like you. You're crazy, but I like you."

LOL!


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

Old school is great. Like Anchorman there's just so many things to quote.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Thought you all might like to see Will take a "leap of faith" with Bear Grylls.It was a good episode!

Man vs Wild special with Will Ferrel Part 2 - YouTube


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Great episode, TBT! 

And one more - Talledaga Nights where Will Farrell gets in the car with the cougar. 

A12, hope the blue water was divine.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Sore muscles relieved --- ahhhh! I feel very relaxed and peaceful. Massage is a great "separation/divorce" tool, for sure! Highly recommend 

Best, A12


----------



## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

jealous of your massage! glad you enjoyed it. I have never seen Old School, going to check that out!


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

Hi, A12. I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you during this time. You seem to be a remarkable person. The fact that you so offer your thoughts and advice to others while you yourself are going through such a difficult time -- this bespeaks an extremely kind and generous person. I admire your resilience, self-awareness, and compassion for others. Please stay strong!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words, Canardo  Today marks exactly one year since my H moved out, but I am trying not to think about it or what is going on with him and why I still have not seen divorce papers despite signing and returning the separation agreement over a week ago. I know that he is going on vacation tomorrow for a week. If I do not hear anything from him by the end of April, I think it will be well overdue for me to go ahead and file. We are not in each other's lives anymore, what's the point? The only benefit to him is he gets to stay on my employer-sponsored health insurance plan (he is independently employed). I am NC with him, but i so badly want to ask him: "Listen, if you see zero possibility of us ever getting back together, what is the hold up? Why do you continue to hold off from filing? Is it just because of the health insurance, or is there some other reluctance?"

Ugh, this drama has now consumed a good part of my life and energy for a year -- I feel so done. Off to a busy work day!

Hope you are well, and sending you courgage and strength, too!

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Great movie! "Miss Scarlett, you done had a baby, you ain't never gonna be a size six no mo!"
> 
> Old School, yes, a classic. My favorite scene is where Will Farrell gets the tranquilizer dart in the neck and falls into the pool.... And him in Wedding Crashers, "Ma, the meatloaf!"
> 
> Mani pedi good. The blue water.



"Ear Muffs!"


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Canardo said:


> Hi, A12. I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you during this time. You seem to be a remarkable person. The fact that you so offer your thoughts and advice to others while you yourself are going through such a difficult time -- this bespeaks an extremely kind and generous person. I admire your resilience, self-awareness, and compassion for others. Please stay strong!


I was to give a big 2nd to what Canardo said!! also I cant wait to see the host!!! I also real and went to see all those twlight movies. and Hunger games.. "books much better of course".

And I have a funny stupid movie quote for you regarding someone being drugged;:

with a very slured voice:
What? What? What?

Beck:
Monkey. Monkey.

Travis:
Monkey where? Get him away from me.

Beck:
Get out of here Monkey.

Travis:
Get out of here Monkey.

Beck:
Get out of here Monkey.


Same movie: A little bit a of thunder, a little bit of lightning...


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thank you for your kind words, Canardo  Today marks exactly one year since my H moved out, but I am trying not to think about it or what is going on with him and why I still have not seen divorce papers despite signing and returning the separation agreement over a week ago. I know that he is going on vacation tomorrow for a week. If I do not hear anything from him by the end of April, I think it will be well overdue for me to go ahead and file. We are not in each other's lives anymore, what's the point? The only benefit to him is he gets to stay on my employer-sponsored health insurance plan (he is independently employed). I am NC with him, but i so badly want to ask him: "Listen, if you see zero possibility of us ever getting back together, what is the hold up? Why do you continue to hold off from filing? Is it just because of the health insurance, or is there some other reluctance?"
> 
> Ugh, this drama has now consumed a good part of my life and energy for a year -- I feel so done. Off to a busy work day!
> 
> ...


File only if you are ready. Simple as that.


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> If I do not hear anything from him by the end of April, I think it will be well overdue for me to go ahead and file. We are not in each other's lives anymore, what's the point? The only benefit to him is he gets to stay on my employer-sponsored health insurance plan (he is independently employed). I am NC with him, but i so badly want to ask him: "Listen, if you see zero possibility of us ever getting back together, what is the hold up? Why do you continue to hold off from filing? Is it just because of the health insurance, or is there some other reluctance?"
> 
> Ugh, this drama has now consumed a good part of my life and energy for a year -- I feel so done. Off to a busy work day!


I am feeling the same way, A12, although it has been less than six months for me. As you know, I've been in contact with W, although she still says there's zero possibility of R. I can get health insurance through my employer (although her employer's plan is much more generous), so I know that's not the issue. I'm hoping for R, but I feel like the longer we are separated, the harder it will be. On the other hand, it could give us more time to heal and to work on ourselves. I can't comment on your H's motivation for delaying, but it's not over till it's over!


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> How about after he gets the tranquilizer dart to the neck, he tells he slurs to the guy, "I like you. You're crazy, but I like you."
> 
> LOL!


One of my favorite movies of all time!


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> But after hearing about Rhett Butler the other day, I watched Gone With the Wind. "Miss Scarlett, I don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin no babies!"


I'm glad my misfortune brings joy to others...

We went to see "The Croods 3-D". Which was actually pretty good surprisingly. However, I wouldn't recommend it unless you were accompanying children under 10.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> File only if you are ready. Simple as that.


Hi GP - 

I feel like until we get divorced it is not "official" that the marriage is over -- so it keeps me hanging on to the tiniest sliver of hope that he might change his mind. That feels bad for me, because it keeps me from moving on, emotionally. 

On the other hand, I am not in any rush to go out and start dating. My heart just isn't into it -- I do not feel ready to be intimate with anyone. And I struggle so much to let go of this quiant notion that he is the only one for me. That I can never feel the same way about another man, or ever love another as deeply. 

But for all practical purposes, the "marriage" no longer exists. We are not in each others' lives. It is hard to imagine him having a change of heart after a whole year apart? Does R ever happen after this long a separation, I wonder? He claims not be be dating, and not feeling up to it either. 

I think he will file. I can't imagine why he wouldn't. It could be his attorney got held up woth oter things, or he is aiting until he gets back from his trip, who knows?

I know, "mind reading is crazy making." Hope you are doing well!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

A12, Its ok for you to hope as long as you’re not halting your life to live in expectation of that hope. You do not have to mind read, try not to do that, just take it one day at a time and it is what it is. 
Live with the expectation of you continuing on- to grow and become a stronger person no matter what he does. If you want to put a time limit on it in a few months from now then you can do that if you still haven’t heard anything but you don’t have to.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi DYRC2 -

Thank you so much, I know you are right, but I really needed to hear that (again!). You guys are so kind and patient with me and my broken record over here  Maybe all this is teaching me some huge lessons in equanimity and acceptance. Mental CrossFit - LOL!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, bring on the lumber, I just have to get this off my chest. My PSTBX and I are still FB "friends" -- crazy, I know, it is like the one thread that still ties our existences. Though neither of us are on there very much, when one or the other of us posts something on FB it's sort of the last remaining view into each other's lives, so to speak. I knew that this week he was going on his annual man-venture, and sure enough I see he is posting about it on FB and sharing a couple of pics (just of the guys and the scenery, none with him in them). I noticed he is also still FB "friends" with my family members, and has a friendly little exchange with my younger brother about his dirt biking adventure. Awhile ago, I "unfriended" all his family members and most persons who were more his friends than mine. I don't feel part of his family anymore. Yet he stays connected to mine - WTF? It's none of my business who stays in touch with who and on what terms. Now chanting the serenity prayer repeatedly in my pea brain  

I still have no idea of his intentions, why I have not yet been served D papers, and whether and when this will happen. What I will not be saying on FB: "Have a nice vacation, honey! Enjoy your wife's employer's health insurance plan that she's paying for, I hope you don't end up crashing your bike and needing it!"

Best, - A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> OK, bring on the lumber, I just have to get this off my chest. My PSTBX and I are still FB "friends" -- crazy, I know, it is like the one thread that still ties our existences. Though neither of us are on there very much, when one or the other of us posts something on FB it's sort of the last remaining view into each other's lives, so to speak. I knew that this week he was going on his annual man-venture, and sure enough I see he is posting about it on FB and sharing a couple of pics (just of the guys and the scenery, none with him in them). I noticed he is also still FB "friends" with my family members, and has a friendly little exchange with my younger brother about his dirt biking adventure. Awhile ago, I "unfriended" all his family members and most persons who were more his friends than mine. I don't feel part of his family anymore. Yet he stays connected to mine - WTF? It's none of my business who stays in touch with who and on what terms. Now chanting the serenity prayer repeatedly in my pea brain
> 
> I still have no idea of his intentions, why I have not yet been served D papers, and whether and when this will happen. What I will not be saying on FB: "Have a nice vacation, honey! Enjoy your wife's employer's health insurance plan that she's paying for, I hope you don't end up crashing your bike and needing it!"
> 
> Best, - A12


Even if you wait to file, you have got to focus on you. Who he is friends with on facebook has got to be an afterthought. Sounds like its time to unfriend him for your emotional well-being. When I was deep in my mess, I knew better than to even take a small peek at her facebook page.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Unfriend him


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Even if you wait to file, you have got to focus on you. Who he is friends with on facebook has got to be an afterthought. Sounds like its time to unfriend him for your emotional well-being. When I was deep in my mess, I knew better than to even take a small peek at her facebook page.


Thank you, GP, I know you are right. Did you unfriend her, "hide" her from your timeline, or just stop looking at FB altogether?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Unfriend him


Hi Conrad - 

I know I should! I just can't bring myself to do it, because it is my last remaining tie to him. And he still has our wedding pics in his FB photo albums, as well as pics of us from many past vacations -- I deleted all those sorts of pics from my albums long ago. My problem is, I still love him! How do you stop loving someone? 

Sincerely, -A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Conrad -
> 
> I know I should! I just can't bring myself to do it, because it is my last remaining tie to him. And he still has our wedding pics in his FB photo albums, as well as pics of us from many past vacations -- I deleted all those sorts of pics from my albums long ago. My problem is, I still love him! How do you stop loving someone?
> 
> Sincerely, -A12


I remember doing it.

It was at the urging of my therapist on boundaries. She asked if it was hurting me to have that connection.

I said yes.

She said, "What are you going to do about it?"

A12...

Does it hurt?


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Unfriend him


And block him


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Conrad -
> 
> I know I should! I just can't bring myself to do it, because it is my last remaining tie to him. And he still has our wedding pics in his FB photo albums, as well as pics of us from many past vacations -- I deleted all those sorts of pics from my albums long ago. My problem is, *I still love him! How do you stop loving someone?
> *
> Sincerely, -A12


You don't have to stop loving him. You have to just love yourself more to cut out the things that hurt you...like looking at his FB.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> A12...
> 
> Does it hurt?


Yes, it hurts. But it also hurts to think of cutting that last remaining wisp of a cord.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Yes, it hurts. But it also hurts to think of cutting that last remaining wisp of a cord.


Do it.

Cry about it.

Get it over with.

You'll feel better.

It's the right boundary.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - as an FYI, I deactivated my entire FB account. I was too tempted to scrutinize STBX's postings, etc. Also, the whole thing became a painful reminder of everything that was no longer there. Anybody who needs to get in touch with me knows how.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Ugh.....Wellllll, I don’t have to deal with that, mstbxh has never had a FB. I have gone in to his linkedIn to see if he added the OW as a contact and I have checked out the OW' FB to see if she has ever updated her status to "In a relationship", I have also gotten on the school web-site to see when the board meetings are etc. to try and determine if he "would drop by at night or not" when I had that problem with him.... do you think I was looking for any kind of a connection I could get? I think I was in some ways.. (I haven’t done it in months by the way). I still dont know what she looks like and I wouldn’t know her if she touched my shoulder. That kind of drives me crazy. But would it help me to know? Probably not.

I’m glad he doesn’t have one; it would be to tempting to go into it for me. I did notify every one of my FB friends that did not take the OW and her FB family and Friends off their FB. I did not want her to ever be able to get on and see anything about me through one of my contacts. Yes I went through all her FB contacts (all 28 of them) and checked for mutual FB friends. Hope I don’t sound like a stalker.

I have not deleted any of his relatives and quite a few of "my nieces" and yes they are mine even though they are on his side of the family contact me regularly to see how I’m doing and tell me how much they love me and even though they love their uncle they think he’s a jerk for doing this to me again. His sister still says comments although sometimes they are a little snide, usually however they are loving (but I don’t trust her). So I think its ok that that your brother still has him as a fb friend. But you probably need to take him off especially since you reached out to us and shared how much it’s bothering you. Does that make sense?


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

I too closed out my fb and twitter. With very few heartbreaking exceptions I have stayed out of her fb (I know her login info, although I thought she had changed it. How's that for a Valentine's Day fitness test? Asking me for her own password. It's like she wanted me to check it.)

My worst "downs" are almost specifically attributable to breaking down and looking at her fb.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, all for your kind words of support. Stupid Facebook  As a baby step, I will block him from my timeline so his stuff doesn't show up on there nor mine on his. Last gasp, this morning I saw he posted a pic of himself in his gear by his dirt bike -- dang, he is hot!!! OK, enough with the self torture. Now that it is warm in DC, we have "shirts off" season at CrossFit, so plenty of buff masculine eye candy to appreciate  

Kind Regards, - A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Stop thinking of "hottie" lol.. Worst thing I did this week.. Started reading my 50 shades again... ugh!!!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Just sayin' when the weather gets warm, and the guys' shirts come off, there are some nice views at my CrossFit gym


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow, A12, and you, DYRC, cold showers, for the love of God.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Wow, A12, and you, DYRC, cold showers, for the love of God.


Yep, cold showers it is!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> Just sayin' when the weather gets warm, and the guys' shirts come off, there are some nice views at my CrossFit gym


I don't remember giving permission for that to be used.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I don't remember giving permission for that to be used.


:rofl: Sorry, Conrad! Very naughty of me!


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



Awakening2012 said:


> Yep, cold showers it is!


Or a really long hot one


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

or the jacuzzi


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Today, I settled for a killer workout, a sublime matinee of the American Ballet Theater at the Kennedy Center ( Le Corsaire - amazing!), and now off to a massage to be follow by the Caps game on the couch with the cats. In sum, a nice day!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Glad you had such a good day, A12! You've got to be the TAM Poster Girl for how best to deal with adversity....

BW


----------



## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

Your workouts sound great! I'm so unfit, reckon I've lost muscle over last six months. Did a local hillwalk today with my dog and I struggled in places! I never found it easy per se but never had any trouble with it! Big priority to get fit. One of your workouts would kill me!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Chopsy! Great for you walking hills with the pup, that's got to feel good to get started back into a fitnes committment to yourself. It helps so much with stress and depression management, and builds self confidence. For me, the community aspect of CrossFit has also been indispensible -- it is a welcoming space of friendly, supportive, positive people. It is not cheap compared to a regular gym, but you are essentially getting group personal training, with an experienced coach who is used to working with people of all fitness levels -- from elite competetive athletes, to de-conditioned folks who are beginning their journey to get back in shape. That's another cool things about it -- I have seen lives transformed as people stick with it and get results. Yes, it is intense, but very effective and (as they say) "infinitely scalable" such that you could do any of the workouts using "scaling" options to modify the movements to your level (bands for pull ups, push ups from knees, etc.). Most affiliates have free trial classes Saturdays at noon, if there is one near you -- you should check it out if you can. You woud be getting consecutive rope climbs in no time  But any committment to regular exercise of some form will be a huge help, so I'm glad it is on your priority list.

I am not surprised your H stood you up on Sunday -- how extremely inconsiderate of him to leave you hanging like that (I know the feeling all too well!). Hang in there and take it a day at a time. Hope your job search will turn up some good prosepcts soon.

Cheers, - A12


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Nice to see you doing well A12.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, you sound really positive today, I'm happy for you. I'm assuming, no word from Mr. Limbo? 

And all this workout stuff, you realize you're making the ret of us look bad, I'm on the couch eating a day-old Krispy Kreme doughnut.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle -

No, radio silence from Mr. Limbo since the end of March when I received the separation papers and signed and returned them. He was on vacation last week - not sure if he is back yet. So it is still hard not to obsess about what his intentions are -- everything pointed to D, especially since he put a separation agreement in place, I "assumed" I would next be seeing D papers? But nothing yet- WTF? My plan has been to give it until the end of April, and if no action from him, then I will file. The only reason I can surmise him not filing is simply that he will lose his health insurance coverage, and have to buy his own policy, which is really expensive for the self-employed, even for crappy coverage with huge deductibles. 

I have asked myself a million times if I should even bother asking him if that is the only reason he has not taken that final step of filing for D. But he is the one who has kept me in limbo all this time, and flip-flopped several times on saying he was going to file. I am just taking it a day at a time, trying not to think about him, and keep myself occupied. I'm not gonna lie, it is still a big adjustment living alone, and obviously not my preference or Plan A. But I have been told you don't have to like something in order to accept it. As Punch has said, "It is what is it until it isn't."

Hope you are hanging in there, and talking care of yourself and D3. I can't help thinking it would be great if you could move her to a nursery school closer to where you work -- get her out of the WS work's facility entirely. But I'm sure that would not be easy to manage either...

Have a great day! Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks for the support, 12. I've thought about moving schools for D but she loves the one she's in, her friends and teachers are wonderful.... Plus the kids are from all over the world and D is exposed to a multitude of cultures, etc. so I am reluctant to move her unless the logistics become overwhelming. 

I'm sorry you're still hanging out there in LimboLand. I understand about the health care thing. That would bother me too, that you are simply a gravy train with biscuit wheels. But of course you're hoping it's more than that, that he is still unsure if he really wants this. In that case, yes, no news is good news. 

I am daily reminded of the tremendous strength and resolve with which you've approached all this. I really admire your positive attitude. But I do realize that like the rest of us, you have your moments of almost unimaginable anguish. 

All I can offer up is the knowledge that you've got a lot of friends out here who are pulling for you every day. 


BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

P.S. Today is his birthday -- he turns 51. I did wish him a simple "Happy birthday, M" on FB, as he did the same on my FB for my birthday back in February. Yes, I know -- LUMBER! But against good advice, I am a stubborn fool, and have not been able to bring myself to cut the FB cord.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Update -- confirmation that D is happening. I just got an e-mail from my H saying: 

"There is supposed to be some more paperwork coming from the lawyer. I'm sorry to keep you in limbo but I'm at the mercy of the lawyer. On a side note, I got decent health insurance last month so you can have a little more in your paycheck going forward. I do appreciate you covering me; your generosity has been exceptional.
Hope you are well."

I wrote back a short reply: "thank you for letting me know your intentions."

Notwithstanding yet another false alarm, it sounds like D papers are forthcoming. I feel relieved he at least let me know, so I am no longer left wondering what is going on. His delays and flip-flops made it so much harder on me, whether intentional or not. I could be angry about that, and how long and torturous he has made the process. But somehow I feel more sorry for him, and find him more pathetic than contemptuous. In the end, he just found it easier to walk away and revert to Peter Pan bachelorhood -- hey, good luck with that!

Onward,- A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Believe it or not Im at a loss for words. I just know deep down how hurt you are and Im sorry your going through this.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> P.S. Today is his birthday -- he turns 51. I did wish him a simple "Happy birthday, M" on FB, as he did the same on my FB for my birthday back in February. Yes, I know -- LUMBER! But against good advice, I am a stubborn fool, and have not been able to bring myself to cut the FB cord.


We'll let it slide... this time.


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm very sorry, A12. I know this is not what you wanted. I know it's no consolation, but I hope that the closure will bring you some peace and relief from the anguish of the endless uncertainty.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - so sorry to hear.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you so much, all. The long, slow painful death of my marriage has been such an endless, agonizing emotionally draining process that I do feel it will be a relief to finally get it over with. I hope it is true what people say, that in time you "get over" the lingering feelings of attachment for a departed loved one. My only option is to go with the flow -- let myself cry when I need to, but not wallow, stay as positive as I can, stay in the present moment and trust that I will be OK. Like my Pops used to tell us as children (I think he said quoting Abraham Lincoln?): "most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."

I think about the Boston tragedy. I think about a co-worker whose husband passed away yesterday after a long illness. I count my many blessings, even as the horizon of my life may appear hazy at the moment. 

Hugs, -A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

xxoo-DYRC2


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> I hope it is true what people say, that in time you "get over" the lingering feelings of attachment for a departed loved one.


You can take that to the bank A12! I divorced 30 years ago and the only time I think of her now is when I may see her liking or commenting on one of our granddaughters FB pages,which is once in a blue moon.Its been this way for so many years with nothing there on any emotional level.Even though you've been in limbo for quite awhile,you've been working hard and doing so many things to make yourself a stronger person and that is a big plus.I know you're hurting and I'm sorry for that,so like you said,just take things at your own pace.Eventually,others will come into your orbit if you let them...new people,new friends,a special someone and a new beginning.It happened for me and it will happen for you.You've got this.Just don't be afraid.All the positive vibes I can muster are coming your way. Take care.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Jesus, A12. I'm so sorry. No words.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle - 

It is a comfort to know I am not alone navigating this life-wrenching outcome, and know that, as many who have weathered this turmiol, I will survive and (hopefully) eventuslly thrive even as the horizon of my life may appear hazy at the moment. My biggest fear is being alone for the rest of my life, but at the same time, I want to give ample time to get comfortable with being single again before venturing into any new romantic connections, which I am n most certainly not ready for right now. 

There is an odd trigger at my workplace of a spectacularly smart amd atttractibe (married and obviously off limits) co-worker who very clolesly resembles my handsome STBXH. Go figure. I can barely look at him without feeling a rush of attraction thought I would NEVER show or reveal for obvious professional and personal reasons -- entierly inappropriate. But he looks a lot like mty STBXH, and it is all I can do not to stare when we are in meetings together. Ugh.

Looking into to new IC about how to move on... I really need help leting go of a lost love, and all my remorse about blowing the best thing that ever happened to me.

Best,- A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Live your life the best you can. That's all any of us can really do.

Would you delete the link to the mug shot out of your reply on my thread. I am going to delete the link pretty soon so people do not get directed to my thread when they search him.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Live your life the best you can. That's all any of us can really do.
> 
> Would you delete the link to the mug shot out of your reply on my thread. I am going to delete the link pretty soon so people do not get directed to my thread when they search him.


OK, will do. Thanks GP -- wishing the best for you!

Best, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, I hope you're hanging tough over there. 

If you get a minute, could you please PM or e-mail me? Gotta question for you....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

BW - You are doing valiently under some trying circumstances! Hoping the best for you, whatever this direction goes 

Hang in there, lad!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, A12. 

But you're the one who's been valiient.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

A12, 

You are doing awesome considering the circumstances. I am sorry this isn't your desired outcome but go through with the divorce w/o fear. The hell with that man. 

You'll be fine. You sound like a great catch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, ReGroup - I composed and almost sent him a message tonight sbout how my love had turned to hatred for him and how long he dragged this out and made it as painful as possible for me -- how I couldn't wait to have this be over and have him out of my life forever. But I decided it was pointless. Why leave things on an angry note? Do you think I did the right ting, refraining? I do hate his disloyalty and inability to stand by the vow of "for better or for worse" and refusal of ever even valuing me and the marriage enough to ry MC-- but my sayinng so would be counter prodcutive, right? Disengaging and letting it go, despite all that it meant to me, is my best path, correct? Starting new MC tomorrow -- hope it will help with havign my life aaaand furure turned updside down.

Bet A12


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

2x4s would have rained from the heavens on top of your head if you would have sent that.

Great job resisting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Please don't email him. Let him go. It's
really your only option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12 -

I agree with my esteemed colleaugues - let it go. It IS pointless. 

I really understand how you feel, how hurt you are by all of it, his perpetual silence, his refusal to stand by you when the going got tough. And I would probably crumble myself, and fire off some stupid, angry email that I later regretted. 

But you're better than that. You've managed to hang on to your dignity much better than the rest of us, 12. Hang tough. 

BW


----------



## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi A12, finally had time to blast through your thread. Wow. As hard as being straight up dropped has been for me, that long period in limbo must have been harder. You appear to be doing great.

A new "line" popped into my head earlier and I think it is apt. You may not have got what you want but, it is ok to let yourself want what you got.

So glad you didn't send that last mail, its should all be about you now.

The letter he sent you brought a tear to my eye. That my stbx isn't there for me in dealing witn my issues is bad but that she refuses to entertain any culpability cuts deep. 

Just wanted to say I think you are doing a great job getting through this with both your own struggles and the long limbo.

Inspirational.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

A12....I’m glad you didn’t send that email, how does it sound or look now during a new day. My IC said go ahead and write out your letter but wait a month to send it. Then every week re-read it and add new page. At the end of the month read it over and see if it’s really something you want or need to send. I never have because I know it won’t make any difference and it’s all been said before you may actually need to say some of the things at some point.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

On a funny note I have to tell you about a phone call I rec'd last night. It was from the best friend of my stbxh's brother. He was obviously drunk, slurring his words and looking for my husband. He wouldn’t let me get two words in, kept cutting me off mid-sentence every time I tried telling him my stbx wasn’t there, anyways just of the conversation: 

He’s very worried about stbx-BIL, says he’s afraid he's using heavy drugs again, (been clean and sober for 22 years- used to hang out w/Hells Angels) I finally get through to him that my stbx isn’t home, doesn’t live here anymore and he says "honey- I’m sorry, he's not screwing around on you again is he?" so stbx-BIL must have told him a few things. I said well you need to talk with him here’s his phone #. 

He says "I’ve been a captain in the marines for 30 years and one thing I can’t stand is someone that hurts children or woman. If you need me to come to your place and kick some butt just let me know, Ill be there is a second. I haven’t seen you in years but you were always a beautiful woman..." (LOL) "How old are you?" (LOL) I say, thanks....... I’m 53 but not looking for another man right now. He says "well I’m 59 6ft 2 and very strong and in good shape, you may want to re-consider..."(rofl)... I say: thanks for the offer but give my x a call and tell him your concerns about his brother.. He says: "It’s kind of late, I shouldn’t bother him now (WTH- he just called my house...) Then he says "but if he's with another woman, he deserves to have his ass woke up... is he with another woman? " (LOL) 
I say he won’t mind, just give him a call... I get called sweetheart and dear and told I have his phone number and to give him a call, oh yeh he plays guitar in a band and has a 6th sense about things, so not only does he know stbx-bil is in trouble but he knows him and I will probably make a good match. It was very entertaing and soooooo tempting... just what I need in my life right now..... ROFL


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Damn, DYRC, let the poor guy at least buy you dinner.....


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, DYRC, let the poor guy at least buy you dinner.....


ROFL, Ill tell you what, lets give him your # and you go out with him.....:smthumbup:


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, so much you guys. I am very glad I kept silent. I received a helpful tip from another member to write out in a journal everything I would want to say to H, but just for purposes of getting it off my chest (thanks, MSC71). Whether intentional or not, looking back at all the twists and turns, he was truly masterful at making sure I suffered the maxium possible emotional torment.

Now I just want the D to be finalized and over with once and for all. I have a feeling that once he does not have me and our marriage to blame all his unhappiness on, he'll finally have to take a harder look in the mirror. I feel bad for whoever ends up with him next, he'll surely grab the victim chair with her, too.

I started with a new psychiatrist this morning, to help me with medication management for depression and anxiety. She was great, and I think she is going to be really helpful. She is also hooking me up with a liscensed clinical therapist for some IC to help me move on with my life and put this sorry chapter behind me.

TGIF -- hope everyone has a good weekend!

Best Regards, - A12

P.S. DYRC, I vote for don't date the large drunken man


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - thanks for the update. I was just thinking of you this morning. I think everyone on here will agree that you have handled your situation with great class and grace. Obviously, you have a lot going for you so please remember that.

Are you attending any FOB meetings in DC?

Also, I picked up the "Rebuilding" by Bruce Fisher book at Barnes and Noble yesterday and I would definitely recommend that to anyone. (Not that I'm on a crusade or anything )


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Soca - 

Thank you for your kind words -- it means a lot to me  I do indeed regularly attend FoB meetings in Arlington and DC. 

I am definitely going to get that book -- but did not see a Kindle version on Amazon, so will have to order the paperback or look for it at B&N this weekend. I saw one that is on Kindle edition called "Moving Forward After Divorce: Practical Steps to Healing Your Hurts, Finding Fresh Perspective, Managing Your New Life," by David and Lisa Frisbie. I wonder if that one is any good?

Hope you and your boys are well. 

Warm Regards, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Good for you A12, finding a new shrink, you seem pleased with her. Hope your day is better than the last few....

And regarding DYRC's gentleman caller, who said anything about a real date? DYRC, hit him up for a prime rib dinner and THEN kick him to the curb.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I think at this point in my life I’d rather just buy my own prime rib Bullwinkle, As tempting as a 59 year old psychic, guitar playing, drunk, x marine is. He sounds fun though..... I do know from my BIL's visit in June of last year that his friend also has a heavy use of "Cannabis" and is disabled. You see my BIL has a legal Pot farm in CO. but is going through a divorce and looks like the x-wife might get the best plants. BIL left w/girlfriend apparently on a bender and no one has heard from him in a couple of months. Quite a family my x’s, we both had screwed up child hoods and you can tell by our siblings.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

I understand, DYRC. 

A12, hope you're well.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Today started with a hot cup of CrossFit coffee at my beloved gym: CrossfitAdaptation | Elite Fitness in the Heart of Shirlington

“Lumber Jack 20”
20 Deadlifts (275/185)
Run 400m
20 KB swings (2/1.5p)
Run 400m
20 Overhead Squats (115/85)
Run 400m
20 Burpees
Run 400m
20 Chest to Bar Pullups
Run 400m
20 Box jumps (24″)
Run 400m
20 DB Squat Cleans (45s/35s)
Run 400m

I scaled the weights and used bands for the pull ups, and the whole thing took about 30 minutes. I am now officially subdued for the day, and off for a volunteer shift at the local food pantry. 

Hope everyone's having a good drama-free weekend  

Warmly, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Holy shyt, A12. And here I was thinking about a Marlboro and a glass of Wild Turkey....


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

I second BW. However, I'm trying to get the 1/2 herschel (500 pushups/situps) done while I sit around all day. So long as I get them done by bedtime.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All - I just picked up the mail and sure enough My H has sent me the D papers for me to sign, notarize and return, which I will do on Monday (we have a free notary public in our office). I just want to be kept informed of the court date, and have the option to attend the hearing if I so choose. As I understand it, these things are fairly straightforwaard and pro-forma, but I feel I have the right to be witness to the death of my marriage.

This is not the outcome I wanted, but I hope he will be happy, I truly do. I'll focus on my own rebuilding and happiness, but still think he may latter come to regret this -- we really had it all, and could have had again if not for his checking out and deciding to give up on soemthing that was one (and could have again been) great. 

Anyway, one step closer to being single again, and getting free of the drama and able to look foraward to building a happier new chaper  

Best,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Sorry to hear it, A12. But if nothing else, you're getting closer to closure. 

My heart goes out to you. 


J


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bw - I really loved my STBXH wil all my heart, and had hoped the deep bond we shared could survive, but I respect his decision (though tI still think he may come to regret it). I still can't beleive he is choosing to throw away our marriage, but so be it. 

For me, I have to look forward with a positive outlook, difficult as that feels at the moment :-( 

Hope you are enjoying your weekend!

Warmly, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

I really admire your resolve, A12. Things will get better.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - sorry to hear but this ending will be a new beginning for you.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi All - I just picked up the mail and sure enough My H has sent me the D papers for me to sign, notarize and return, which I will do on Monday (we have a free notary public in our office). I just want to be kept informed of the court date, and have the option to attend the hearing if I so choose. As I understand it, these things are fairly straightforwaard and pro-forma, but I feel I have the right to be witness to the death of my marriage.
> 
> This is not the outcome I wanted, but I hope he will be happy, I truly do. I'll focus on my own rebuilding and happiness, but still think he may latter come to regret this -- we really had it all, and could have had again if not for his checking out and deciding to give up on soemthing that was one (and could have again been) great.
> 
> ...


I’m so sorry that this is what he is choosing but I know in the long run you will be the better for it. If he cannot be man enough for you now, he never will be!! Yes he will regret it, you sound like an amazing woman and he's giving up. No matter what you two have been through in your marriage, your willing to fight, to keep going on, to get the help you need, and he wasn’t. He is walking away the failure, not you. he will carry that into all of his other relationships. Keep going strong A 12!!

On a different note: I wish my D was going as smoothly, my stbxh refused to talk to me about the upcoming court date, does not want mediation. He is insisting on fighting me over the grounds and the maintenance. I filed back in August and our first court date is 4/30. I’m very nervous. Haven’t seen my lawyer, because of $ everything has been done by email. but according to him this is just preliminary anyways and I won’t even have to talk, just show up.. ugh.. I hate this...

As far as your work ok..: Good for you, I was lazy. Went to the Gym Friday night but that was it. Saturday, walked the dogs and 45 min on my elliptical then Sunday walked the dogs and went with a friend to see "42". No P90x this weekend at all and I’m feeling it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, all for your kind words and encouragement about a "new beginning"  

DYRC, sorry your D is proving more contentious and involved than mine, and that your STBXH is being so obstinant. Hang in there, and know you, too, will get to the other side of this and step into the sunlight of a bright new day  

Hey, that movie "42" gets great reviews -- I've got to go see it. Sounds like you got plenty of exercise, too, if not as intense as you're used to doing. 

I'm sure I'll feel a little sad when I sign those papers today and drop them in the mail, but also releived to know I'll be getting closure. I want to be sure that I am notified of the couret hearing date, and that I recieve a copy of the divorce decree. Does that happen automatically, or do I have to ask for these things? If the latter, I am wondering if I should include a very short note with the papers I'm sending to my STBXH requesting those things (notificiation of the court hearing date and time, and copy of the divorce decree)?

Thanks again! Warmly, A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I am waiting for the notary public colleague to let me know when she can take care of my D documents -- meanwhile, I re-read what I am signing, and notice it includes (under point #4) a statement saying that I "freely and voluntarily waive notice of an ore tenus hearing and the notice of enrty of the final decree of divorce." WTF? 

So I called my H just now to tell him I am fine with signing this, and want it to move forward as quickly as possible, but can he ask his lawyer if I can strike point #4? Or I could just go ahead and strike it on the signed document I send back to him.

He started telling me that this would hold things up, maybe cause him to have to re-file, and if I want this to get done quickly (I do), I should just sign it, and he promises he will himself provide me the requested notifications and copies of all documentation incuding the final decree of divorce. I know I should have just kept my cool, but I ended up telling him, "you know, I do want this to be over as quickly as possible, I am so sick and tired of the way you hve dragged this thing out and made it as painful and emotionally devastating as possible on me." He gave me the old "sorry you feel that way, it was never my intention to hurt you" I told him that is BS and you know it, that there is nothing else he can possibly do that would hurt me more than he already has. I will take his word of giving me the notifications and get the documents in the mail today. We both said "thank you very much" and hung up.

Wrong or not to let the anger come out, I don't care at this point, it felt good. F. him I am so done!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

You have every right to be angry, A12. I'm surprised you didn't say something worse.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I’m fine with you being angry, I’m not so sure about signing without a lawyer looking at it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

doureallycare2 said:


> I’m fine with you being angry, I’m not so sure about signing without a lawyer looking at it.


Thanks BW and DYRC - 

DYRC, we are in accord on the separation agreement, which I already signed off on, and now this is just the one-page "Acceptance of Service and Waiver of Notice" which expedites the process, because it avoid me having to be formally served and putting extra waiting periods in place. I don't disagree with anything on there, except the part about not being notified of the hearding date/time and receiving notice of entry of the final decree of divorce as well as a copy of that document (which I could obatin on my own anyway, after the fact, if I wanted to, but I don't want to be made to go to the courthouse and pay a fee to get a copy).

My STBXH said he would meet these requests, and at this point, expediting the process is more important to me that distrusting him to keep his word on my request. 

The new medication has me feeling less depressed and having fewer obsessive thoughts and sleeping better, so that's the good news. Between the new shrink and the new IC, plus my program of recovery, and getting the D over with so I am no longer in limbo, I think I'll be better positioned to start making more progress with myself.

As always, thanks so much for your kind support!

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

A12 

Don't let him know how you feel anymore. 

If your angry, go find a punching bag at the gym. 

No need in letting him see you are still wishing for a different outcome. Needy and weak is not what you want to be remembered as.

Let it go.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

More than one answer I guess. I think it's ok to be angry A12. Let it out at this point. Who cares what he thinks or what he says. 

As far as your copies and the schedule, request them from your STBX. It is really just a courtesy for him to provide them to you. He doesn't really have to. 

If he doesn't send them to you, it isn't a big deal to request them from the court clerk later. They will probably give you the schedule over the phone, just have your case number when you call for the hearing date. A certified copy of the signed decree may require a small fee and I am sure the request from the clerk can be done by mail or online too. Lot of options there. Don't sweat it too much...hang in there. This is almost over.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

A12- You are more than welcome to what little support I can give, i just wish I could give more! You hang in there; you’re doing a wonderful job of recognizing what you need to help you achieve a better existence for yourself. New meds, IC, program of recovery are wonderful steps to help you get to your end goal. I hope you have some people in your life telling you how proud they are of you! Because You Rock!!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> A12
> 
> Don't let him know how you feel anymore.
> 
> ...


How is showing ager being week? It is how I feel. I did not ell him I wanteda different outcome, just that I did not appreciate how he handled the whole process to make it as painful as possible on me.

So I gues you are "not OK' with me telling him to go F. himslef, which is what I feel like saying  

Best, - A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> How is showing ager being week? It is how I feel. I did not ell him I wanteda different outcome, just that I did not appreciate how he handled the whole process to make it as painful as possible on me.
> 
> So I gues you are "not OK' with me telling him to go F. himslef, which is what I feel like saying
> 
> Best, - A12


Thin line between love and hate.

Indifference is bliss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

Maybe I don't belong on TAM but I have never seen anything wrong with anger. 

Call him up and tell him to go F himself and in the meantime I will drive over there kick his azz and then tear up all his separation and divorce clause paperwork with all the attachments and caveats and mash them on his face.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12
> 
> Maybe I don't belong on TAM but I have never seen anything wrong with anger.


If only it were that easy.


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

Good on ya, A12! Sometimes you just have to call it as you see it. We all have limits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12
> 
> Maybe I don't belong on TAM but I have never seen anything wrong with anger.
> 
> Call him up and tell him to go F himself and in the meantime I will drive over there kick his azz and then tear up all his separation and divorce clause paperwork with all the attachments and caveats and mash them on his face.


BW - have you gotten to the section in Rebuilding where it address anger? Apparently, there is something called "Divorce Rage" that hits where the anger is beyond anything that you thought possible. I remember literally shaking with rage for days. X said she'd never seen me so angry after a session in family therapy.

In the book, it has ways to express the anger in a constructive manner (vs not-so-constructive ways) but states it is a necessary part of the healing process. 

My IC said this was part of it too. And can trigger unresolved anger from past issues.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

SoCa, yes, I've read a couple of the chapters at least twice and it has helped. My problem is I think I'm okay and them something will trigger THE RAGE. 

how the hell have you kept from losing your mind?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, you guys do make me think I should give mindful consideration that whatever has happened, and we are divorcing, this is someone I once loved with all my heart, and was sure was my soulmate. So even though I might not want him in my life anymore and we are "done" (as hard as that has been for me to accept, given all the good times and all we meant to each other), I may want to think twice before ending it on a bitter or angry note. I don't want to hold onto resentments that I know will only hurt myslef -- part of the "letting go" process that I'll resolve over time. Not that I care that much how he regards me anymore, I'd like to preserve the happy memories and leave it go at that. So I will do my best to be civil, and not show emotion, as GP advises, as much as I am hurting inside. I can take that hurt to IC and CrossFit. I want to be one of those people who can look back in hindsight and feel good about how I got through this and moved on to a happier, healthier future  

Thanks again, all!

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> SoCa, yes, I've read a couple of the chapters at least twice and it has helped. My problem is I think I'm okay and them something will trigger THE RAGE.
> 
> how the hell have you kept from losing your mind?


I will be interested in the answers to this myself, but can only guess it is about finding constructive, effective ways to channle that anger/rage. Such that you can ultimately feel good about yourself and not worse for sinking to levels that are beneath you, and feel good in the moment, but only make you feel crappier later on. Painful lessons in character building, right?

Best,- A12


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> I will be interested in the answers to this myself, but can only guess it is about finding constructive, effective ways to channle that anger/rage. Such that you can ultimately feel good about yourself and not worse for sinking to levels that are beneath you, and feel good in the moment, but only make you feel crappier later on. Painful lessons in character building, right?
> 
> Best,- A12


The anger eventually subsided for me but I would almost keep purposefully riling myself up. Otherwise, I would feel like I "rolled over". Eventually, I couldn't emotionally sustain it.

What kept me also from going over the top was the fact that whatever happened, I have to have a co-parenting relationship for YEARS! Whatever I said/did could affect that relationship and ultimately, the kids. I have had to let the anger go as I do not want to have a bitter, caustic decade plus.

In a way, A12, I envy you as you have no kids. As painful as it is, the tie is cut. How you handle it in the moment is your choice. With me and BW, it will still be a lifetime of making decisions on how to react.


----------



## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

Good riddance to him! You're not losing much.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

A12, in a perfect world if that works for you, by all means use that approach. For me and most of us, a little anger in the process helps with detachment. If one day, you just can't seem to get past it and can't channel things like you hoped, embrace the anger and let it hammer the final nail in the coffin.

It is ok and a perfectly natural response. No one will think any less of you except maybe him...maybe.

You have a beautiful heart. A little anger won't change that.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

ItsGonnabeAlright said:


> Good riddance to him! You're not losing much.


(((((Thank you!)))))) I needed to hear this :


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> A12
> 
> Don't let him know how you feel anymore.
> 
> ...


Hi GP - 

I see what you are saying, but I wasn't begging or bargaining or even disagreeing with the D, just expressing my anger about the way he has dragged it out and twisted the knife and made it as hard as possible on me emotionally.

There is a martial arts facility next to my CrossFit gym -- maybe I will ask them for a kick-boxing lesson so I can imagine kicking him in the junk. Repeatedly and as hard as possible. Yes, I think that could be therapeutic  

I will let it go, but as you know it is a process that does not happen overnight, when someone has been such an important person in your life for so long, and when you were the dumpee wh wanted it to work out.

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

soca70 said:


> The anger eventually subsided for me but I would almost keep purposefully riling myself up. Otherwise, I would feel like I "rolled over". Eventually, I couldn't emotionally sustain it.


Thanks, Soca70 - 

It is reassuring to know that you are only human in going through some anger -- here I had pictured you as a zen master rooted calmly on under Lotus tree 

I agree, it will be easier for me to cut ties with him completely, because we will have no reason to be in each others' lives. Wherease with kids, you are going to have to manage that relationship the rest of your lives.

My parents divorced more than 20 years ago, after the last child left for college. After some years things became amincable, even after my Mom re-married. Our whole family feels blessed that we can all be together at family gatherings without and tension or ill will at all -- every gets along quite well, even my Dad and my Mom's second husband, which I am grateful for. 

Best,- A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi GP -
> 
> I see what you are saying, but I wasn't begging or bargaining or even disagreeing with the D, just expressing my anger about the way he has dragged it out and twisted the knife and made it as hard as possible on me emotionally.
> 
> ...


I know you weren't. Hang in there.
It's OK to be angry. Embrace it.
Redirect it. Don't let him know he
still has control of your emotions.
One day at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

LOL, remember my story of my sister and our kick boxing session? Her screaming my husbands name as she pretended to go for his groin and her son saying that’s not very nice mom.... lol.. 

You have been very good about not expressing your anger to him and trying for R. Now he has served you with D papers. If there was any time for anger I think that was it. Now for your sake, you need to let it go as much as you can.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> There is a martial arts facility next to my CrossFit gym -- maybe I will ask them for a kick-boxing lesson so I can imagine kicking him in the junk. Repeatedly and as hard as possible. Yes, I think that could be therapeutic


I like this :lol::lol::lol: a lot!


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks, Soca70 -
> 
> It is reassuring to know that you are only human in going through some anger -- here I had pictured you as a zen master rooted calmly on under Lotus tree


Ha! If only...more like pacing non-stop in the garage chain-smoking with a Diet Coke. However, I like the lotus tree picture better!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow, all this talk about kicks to the junk gave me THE SHIVERS.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Wow, all this talk about kicks to the junk gave me THE SHIVERS.


Sorry, BW -- I didn't mean to scare you and be so over the top. I don't feel angry towards men in general, and am not an agressive person. Just mad at the way my STBXH has dragged out our separation in a quite hurtful and cruel fashion.

Best,- A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bullwinkle said:


> Wow, all this talk about kicks to the junk gave me THE SHIVERS.


At least she's not talking about using cut glass.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I think I need some emotional anger today, I’m not sure what my mood is but something is definitely wrong. Couldn’t sleep all night, very tense and anxious. I don’t know why but feel this foreboding and despondency. Not really depressed, yet can’t concentrate or get out of this funk. Thinking a lot about him too..... Not really missing him, just thoughts...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

doureallycare2 said:


> I think I need some emotional anger today, I’m not sure what my mood is but something is definitely wrong. Couldn’t sleep all night, very tense and anxious. I don’t know why but feel this foreboding and despondency. Not really depressed, yet can’t concentrate or get out of this funk. Thinking a lot about him too..... Not really missing him, just thoughts...


Hi DYRC - 

Sorry to hear about the insomnia (hate it!), and that you are feeling a little down today. It really is amazing how the emotional ups and downs of going through this life-changing process, shift and vary from day to day, like the weather. 

Hope you will do something nice for yourself to help you feel better -- maybe schedule a massage or get to a Yoga class.

I am not dark with my STBXH, but at the next communication, he shouldbe informing me of the D hearing date and time and also letting me know when the D has been finalized and copying me on the paperwork -- assuming he keeps his promise to do so.

As I understand how the process works in Virginia courts for an uncontested no fault D, he will have to bring with him a "corroborating witness. The judge will ask STBXH and the corroborating witness a few basic questions, and that's it. HOWEVER, while I can't control wwhat my STBXH or his witness will say, I feel like asking him who does he intend to bring as is witness, and also could they both kindly refrain from the public embarrassment to me (because of the stigma attached it it) of referencing my addiction issues as the reason for the break up. I know the judge will ask the question of why the marriage is ending, from researching how it works. I want to ask him if he could please just tell the judge that we were unable to get along and decided to go our separate ways?

I am thinking of asking the above courtesy over the phone, once I get notification from STBXH of the hearing date/time.

Does this sound reasonable to ask? I guess it shouldn't matter to me what he says to the judge, but it does, it concerns me greatly.

Feel better!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I would ask him first what he intended to say as the reason. Then say thank you if he says something you were hoping to hear. Tell him that you were hoping he would be a gentleman and say that. if not and if he brings up the addiction then you can ask him not to.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, 12, I agree with DYRC. Very reasonable.

You are a much better person than me, I would go into court and probably end up making some kind of an ugly scene, if only to embarrass him. But you are better than that. And we didn't think you'd joined the Man-Hater's Club yet.

But I do agree with Conrad, better the Ferrigamos to the groin than the glass.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, thanks DYRC and BW -- great advice. I meant to say *I am dark with STBXH *(not "I am not dark"), point being I will wait to ask him about this until he contacts me with a heads up on the hearing date. Thanks for understanding that my addiction issue is a sensitive one because of the deep shame and remorse I still feel about the relapse after having had long term recovery 

People tell me to stop blaming myself for the death of the marriage, but how can I? I self-destructed my own life and my happiness by relapsing, and am facing the loss of my marriage as a direct consequence of it. I know that addictions often wreak much harsher consequences: legally, financially, health-wise. I have not driven drunk and killed someone, I have not lost my job and career, etc. Those are all things to be grateful for, knowing my consequecnes could have been worse. 

I also have been counselled to hold my head high, remember I am good person, hold onto my sobriety, and face this painful consequence like a big girl -- be neither his victim or helpless little girl who needs to be rescued.

It is just really hard to avoid thoughts coming up every day of my life the fact of how different my life has turned out to be -- how truly happy we once were, and how the person I thought was my soul mate has banished me from his life forever. I hope I am not going to feel this torment forever, and that it will subside withtime and continuing work on myself. 

Jeeze, I'm sorry to get so heavy. I guess I am feeling heart broken again today, and needed to get that out. Thanks again for your patience and kindness.

Warm Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

Everything you say, it's so completely normal and so to be expected, you shouldn't be ashamed at your anger or your despair or your awful remorse. 

But you WILL survive this, you will go on and thrive. You articulated what so many of us feel every day, thank you. 

BW


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> People tell me to stop blaming myself for the death of the marriage,


I find myself echoing those sentiments.You were in limbo for a long time,primarily because of the mixed messages your stbx was sending.Does he or did he work work through his own issues? If not,can he really say his choice now was given due diligence? I feel so bad for you A12 and I pray you don't continually beat yourself up in a sea of regret and that you can move beyond this sooner rather than later.

TBT


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

TBT said:


> I find myself echoing those sentiments.You were in limbo for a long time,primarily because of the mixed messages your stbx was sending.Does he or did he work work through his own issues? If not,can he really say his choice now was given due diligence? I feel so bad for you A12 and I pray you don't continually beat yourself up in a sea of regret and that you can move beyond this sooner rather than later.
> 
> TBT


Hi TBT - 

Thanks for your kind words. My STBXH did go to IC throughout the separation to supposedly work on his anger and trust issues and see if he could come to terms. But he never waivered in being dead set against MC. And, as I've mentioned here before, I have good reason to seriously doubt the efficacy of his IC. It is the same IC he has been seeing for nearly 10 years (!!!), who he started seeing a couple years before we ever met, to cope with depression following the passing of his father. This IC obviously did not do a great job counselling him on enforcing boundaries during the relapse or helping him handle that whole sorry episode. And as for helping him during the separation, I see zero evidence that this same IC has helped him gain the slightest bit of insight or self-awareness whatsoever. However, I did not think it my place to say anything such as, "you might want to consider a different therapist, given this one has done squat for you in the decade you've worked with him."

The silver lining of getting the D done and over with will be the relief of no longer being stuck in the agony of limbo. Once it is final (which I hope will be soon), it will be so much easier to accept that the marriage is finished, let it go and move on. Count my blessings and make each day the best it can be  

Thanks again for your comforting words! Hope all is well with you.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

The trick is to stop punishing yourself further. Lord knows I did the whole blame myself and I still hold myself largely responsible as I, like your stbx failed to tackle my problems.

At some point you have to say losing what you have is the punishment and once it's done, it's done.

Even if the blame is as heavily weighted towards you as you seem to say (for the record - I think he has a fair portion to shoulder too), you are allowed to have life go on and be happy.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Great post, KC.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

A12, we are all to blame for something. there is not a perfect person out there. We bring those imperfections into our marriage. its a given... your stbxh had issues right, he was in IC, you were willing to accept him with his warts and all yet he refused to go to MC. that makes no sense to me. yes you are responceable for trouble in the marriage. but he is just as responseable.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

A12,

I would simply ask H to be kind and not to bring up those issues at the hearing. He doesn't need to be spiteful and can just as easily finish this divorce without the hurtful BS. 

You mentioned closure, but other than that why exactly do you want to be there?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Tron said:


> A12,
> 
> I would simply ask H to be kind and not to bring up those issues at the hearing. He doesn't need to be spiteful and can just as easily finish this divorce without the hurtful BS.
> 
> You mentioned closure, but other than that why exactly do you want to be there?


Hi Tron - 

Thank you, I will ask him about this when he notifies me of the hearing date and time (assuming he keeps his word to inform me about this). I will also ask him if he would mind telling me who he wil be bringing with himm to serve as his "corroboating witness" -- and to please ask that person as well to keep the responses generic about the reasons for the split. 

I am torn about whether to attend the hearing myself. It does sound morbid, like attending the funeral service for the death of my marriage  He has been so passive aggressive throughout this ordeal, maybe part of me wants to see him finally take responsibility and ownership for his decision to end the marriage. 

On the other hand, to the extent I am still not fully detached, I can imagine that attending the hearing would have high potential for causing excruciatingly painful feelings. So why put myslef through that?

I guess I can decide when the time comes.

Thanks again. I hope all is well with you.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Maybe it's just me, A12, but I would go to the hearing. Face my "accusers", something like that. 

Yes, it would probably be painful. But I would want to look my spouse in the eye the whole time. I would also probably tell him, F you on the way out. Why make it comfortable for him in any way? 

As I see it, you have bent over backwards to keep all this dignified, peaceful, the whole "let's get on with our separate lives" bullshyt that is in fact killing you. F him, slash his tires and break a chair over his head. 

This is the kind of advice you won't find in most self-help books.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> I am torn about whether to attend the hearing myself. It does sound morbid, like attending the funeral service for the death of my marriage  He has been so passive aggressive throughout this ordeal, maybe part of me wants to see him finally take responsibility and ownership for his decision to end the marriage.


I know it has been a long wait, but he filed and is doing it...



Awakening2012 said:


> On the other hand, to the extent I am still not fully detached, I can imagine that attending the hearing would have high potential for causing excruciatingly painful feelings. So why put myself through that?


I agree with this...which is why I asked. If there is another way for you to get closure...trip to Tahiti maybe.

BTW, I could see BW and Frostine slashing tires, breaking chairs over each other's heads with a few F bombs thrown in, cause that's just the way they roll...but you??? Hmmmm. Then again you did say you wanted an opportunity to kick him in the junk. On the courthouse steps is as good a place as any.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12

I'm not really suggesting you break a chair over his head and go to jail. I wouldn't advocate my experiences with my WS as a way forward to anyone. 

I guess in my simplistic way I was thinking that maybe it was time for you to stop being so cooperative and fatalistic about all this. Yes, you made some mistakes. But he walked away from you when you were sick. What if you had had cancer or a heart problem? Would it have been okay then for him to abandon you and move across town and never call you or be with you?

And if the roles had been reversed, would you have turned your back on him? You come home one evening and he's drunk. So you pack up your stuff and leave? You don't stand by him?

You deserve better, kid.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, BW and Tron - 

I love the trip to Tahiti idea! (Disclosure: I already treated myself to a delightful Jamaica get-away in February). I love to travel and am not afraid of doing it alone (in fact, there is a certain pleasure in solo travel). My main problem is getting time off work -- it is a great job, but an intensive work ethic type of environment where you feel guilty using your vacation days, e.g. the boss rarely takes vacay. 

I started IC last night with the LCSW recommended by my new shrink (they had a cancellation and were able to squeeze me in sooner than I was able to initally get an appointment). She made many of these same very helpful and valid points about about the disloyalty of him giving up on me and the marriage without even trying MC. My main goal now is rebuilding myself and my life to get to a happier place. I am more eager to have it finalized, so I can put it to rest and dump this bag of rocks I've been carrying around. I am just praying he doesn't delay or flip flop any further!

I'm not sure whether I'll attend the hearing, but if I did I would not want to make any sort of scene or even exchange any words with him, much less angry words or attack. I would be sure to show up looking my best, aim to keep my poise and dignity and quietly observe, just out of interest in being privvy to what was said and done on a matter of major import in my life. I'll ask my sponsor and my IC about this, too and see what they say.

Thank again for the helpful feedback! :smthumbup:

All Best Regards, - A12


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12
> 
> I'm not really suggesting you break a chair over his head and go to jail. I wouldn't advocate my experiences with my WS as a way forward to anyone.


I was just picking on you BW. 



Bullwinkle said:


> I guess in my simplistic way I was thinking that maybe it was time for you to stop being so cooperative and fatalistic about all this. Yes, you made some mistakes. But he walked away from you when you were sick. What if you had had cancer or a heart problem? Would it have been okay then for him to abandon you and move across town and never call you or be with you?
> 
> And if the roles had been reversed, would you have turned your back on him? You come home one evening and he's drunk. So you pack up your stuff and leave? You don't stand by him?
> 
> You deserve better, kid.


What a great way to look at it. Just keep saying that to yourself A12. Better that you find out now that he isn't someone who has your back than later. 

And you definitely deserve better.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thank you, BW and Tron -
> 
> I love the trip to Tahiti idea! (Disclosure: I already treated myself to a delightful Jamaica get-away in February). I love to travel and am not afraid of doing it alone (in fact, there is a certain pleasure in solo travel). My main problem is getting time off work -- it is a great job, but an intensive work ethic type of environment where you feel guilty using your vacation days, e.g. the boss rarely takes vacay.


I get that, but my thinking was that you let your STBX carry that bag of rocks down to the courthouse while you sit on the beach in the South Pacific sipping on virgin coktail. Take a picture of yourself in the hammock and email it to him on the big day with a big F' YOU. 

As far as work goes...I work hard too, and am just as committed and carry as much responsibility as the next guy...maybe more. But my attitude is that there was never anyone laying on their death bed that ever said "damn it I wish I had spent a few more days at work". I take my vacation days...and if your boss has a problem with you taking off then tough ****, he'll get over it this one time.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All - 

I posted this elsewhere, but wanted to share on my own thread as well, I had the thought and big regret pop not my head today that I ought to have included a torn-up copy of our weddding vows in the envelope when I sent STBXH the divorce papers.

Still worth sending, with a very short sticky paper note -- "I forgot to include this"?

Or just for forget it? I am missing him a terribly today, and would welcome any techniques on how to le them go and put them out of your mind. I get consumed with thoughts of wanting things to be back the way they were when we we happy (blissful!) together.
It is just still really hear to imagine a life without him 

OK, pity party enough for today! Thanks for listening!

Best, A12


----------



## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Let it go. Torn up vows wouldn't do anything other than show enough emotion he'd know he still has his claws in a little imo.

Bare minimum essential contact only remember.

Tear them up, burn em if you want, doesn't have anything to do with him now though.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't send him anything. It would just make him feel smug that the situation still gets to you.

I don't show my STBXH any emotion at all. My dealings with him are strictly business.

Detachment is your best friend.

P.S.
When thoughts of him pop into your head, refocus on yourself and imagine a wonderful life for yourself without him. That's what I do. And it works.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, thanks guys -- I will take that good advice. Much appreciated!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, K. Hope you're okay.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I agree with not sending him anything. Its only showing him your hurt and your pain. Opening yourself up to him once again for another rejection, because as much as you want him to care>>>>>he doesnt care enough.

I hate so much hearing your pain and the pain of everyone on here but it does help to know we are not going through it alone. and to see and hear how everyone handles it.

As we can see we all have our good days, good weeks, good months and then bam. something brings up all that pain and hurt in us.

Thank you for caring about my date the other night. I havnt told any friends or family. felt so bad about the position I was in and so angry with stbxh. It ended up not being to bad. He was really nice and apoligized straight off for how it came across but said he actully new me and had seen me and my stbx out ad around before and heard the "rumors". When he saw me so upset but looking so pretty (he's a charmer) he wanted to help but also encourge me, just take me out for the night and get to know me. he went through a divorce 4 years ago, his wife and his brother had an affair (ugh). He's the owner/manager and thats why he could help me so much on the price. NO SEX WAS EXCHANGED... lol. anyways I told him Id bake him a pie.. lol.. Im famous for my pies....

Definitly a weird weekend for me.:

I went out last night with some friends, band was great (80's cover band), a couple of the guys got up and rode the mechanical bull. one of the girls did it as well and they were all trying to tell me to shed the old and on with the new and go do it but I wasnt feeling it. lol...

Anyways all of a sudden during one of the songs I had a profound anger moment and yelled "F*&#" u" and my husbands name. only those right next to me could make it out but I felt better. And I am not a swearer. One of my friends said what was that about? And I said I dont know Im just so angry with him and had to let it out. She than gave me a lecture about not being angry and if I was still attached to him ask him back... "what" really..... when another friend heard what she said there was almost a fight....I started crying.. (to much to drink).. anyways 10 min later it was all good. at one point some goofy guy was trying to dance with me..... everyone was laughing at me because he was so obvious and I just kept backing up...... than latter when I came out of the rest room some one slapped my butt. I turned around its this young guy, he gives me this victory scream with both armes raised in the air.. how can you get mad at some drunk "cute" young guy that just slapped your [email protected]# especially if your husband is living with another woman....plus I wasnt feeling to bad by then. I have never been much of a drinker but I could definitly see my self very easly getting pulled into that feeling last night.. very numbing. I know your struggle and I have family members that have not saught out the help they need so that feeling of numbness and releif scares me.

Than today guess who showed up again... I dont see him for a couple of months now twice in one weekend. he brought me a special food item that we would take a ride for to go and get in the past. He made up a lie about that he had to do a job run out that way (he also teaches CDL traing) for boces. funny how when I asked if he could help with car repairs he said he had no $ until his boces started again. Now he does do 2 differnt classes. but I think he and the girlfriend took "our" sunday drive,,,, sorry to go on and on... needed to vent again I guess. Court tuesday ugh!! hate this...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

DYRC - I hope your court hearing goes well today. Do let us know how it went and how you are feeling. Thinking of you!

In my case I am curious how long it takes to get a court date for what is known as an _ore tenus_ (uncontested) divorce hearing? I have the case number and am able to look up the record on the website of the Circuit Court where he filed (on April 17 -- his birthday, nice ). I then received on April 19th the "Waiver of Service of Process" and returned that on April 22nd b/c I had to get it notarized (I had already signed and returned the separation agreement on March 30th). So by now he should have all the documents he needs to request a hearing date, but I don't see any further updates when I look up the case number -- no change since the record showing that he filed April 17.

I know it varies by jurisdiction, but am curious to know how long it takes to get a court date once all documents are filed? Are we talking weeks, months? I know I should just put it out of my mind and not obsess about it. It's just that it feels like this is the final hurdle, hence my curiousity.

Best Regards, A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

:scratchhead.S. I just called the Court's Clerk's office and they only received the documents filed 4/17, they have not yet received even a request to set a hearing date? WTF???


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Jeezuz God.

H probably figures it's all over but the crying, what's the hurry.

Or are you hoping against hope that he's getting cold feet?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Or are you hoping against hope that he's getting cold feet?


Hi BW - 

Not really, but I don't know what to make of it :scratchhead:

I do know I will drive myself crazy if I allow myself to ruminate on things over which I have *NO CONTROL.* My only option is to just let it be, and put my focus elsewhere. 

Hope you are holding up OK with all you've got going on. Have you been able to find some trustworthy childcare assistance to help you out? Hang in there and be well. 

Best Wishes, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Miss 12,

I understand your wonderment at what is going on with the delay with H and the final filing. I'm guessing he just hasn't gotten around to the final curtain. He has made this way too painful for you. It just wasnt necessary to put you through this. 

Thanks, but no, no child care or babysitting situations yet, although a couple of my neighbors have offered. Thanks for the kind words. Right now D and I are in a state of perpetual hug, watching Cinderella.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

> My only option is to just let it be, and put my focus elsewhere.




That sounds like a great option!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Miss 12,
> 
> I understand your wonderment at what is going on with the delay with H and the final filing. I'm guessing he just hasn't gotten around to the final curtain. He has made this way too painful for you. It just wasnt necessary to put you through this.
> 
> Thanks, but no, no child care or babysitting situations yet, although a couple of my neighbors have offered. Thanks for the kind words. Right now D and I are in a state of perpetual hug, watching Cinderella.


Hi Bullwinkle - 

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

I am in total admiration for how you are handling all this, most especially putting D3 first, cherishing her feelings, and being her rock. As I've stated before, you are leaving a critical imprint by serving valiently as a role model for what she can expect later in life as to what she will perceive as how she should be treated by the men in her life. I know it is far down the road, but it cannot be over-emphasized the role of a loving father in the future development of a daughter's psyche as a young woman to navigate healthy relationships and expectations of men who will cherish her. Just saying, you prioritization of being a great Dad to her is of no small import. 

I know you've (appropriately) been "assigned" lots of reading, but a great one on this topic is Joe Kelly's book:

Dads and Daughters: How to Inspire, Understand, and Support Your Daughter When She's Growing Up So Fast: Joe Kelly: 9780767908344: Amazon.com: Books 

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Damn, K, I mean A12, that was a breath of fresh air, so sweet and supportive, thank you, it really gave me some hope. I will read the book. 

The truth is that that little girl doesn't realize it it but SHE is carrying ME. Jesus God, I'm a lucky man. 

Thanks again, K, you've helped me me more than I can tell you. I only wish I could help you.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, just wanted to say hi, I hope you are doing okay. Has numbnuts H ever finished the paperwork?

Looks to be a great weekend, huh? I hope you have plans to do something fun. You ever row on the Potomac?


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Go rangers!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Hi, A12, just wanted to say hi, I hope you are doing okay. Has numbnuts H ever finished the paperwork?
> 
> Looks to be a great weekend, huh? I hope you have plans to do something fun. You ever row on the Potomac?


Thanks, Bullwinkle. No, he still has not submitted a request to set a hearing date. My brain = why, why, why??? My AA sponsor has to keep using the 2x4s on me to stop obsessing about it, and quit going onto the courthouse website and looking up the case number to see if there has been any movement. She told me I should not be surprised by -- nor read anything into -- his foot dragging, because this has been his m/o every step of the way. I asked he why can't I email him and say "I am not OK with you dragging this out any longer." She said, NO! Do not engage, reminded me that every time I have engaged with him it has never turned out well for me -- just put me in an emotional tailspin. So I am letting it be, what else can I do?

We do rowing in a lot of the CrossFit workouts, but I have not tried it on the water (perhaps I should!). I do love going down to Jack's Boathouse on summer evenings, and kayaking the Potomac with the city view as the sun sets, then grilling out after on their public grills and picnic tables. That place is a hidden gem of the city -- I hear it is under new management, so I hope they do not change it's unique charm and character.

I will def get myself out and about this weekend -- the weather is supposed to be great! Have fun with D3 and the penguins  

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Go rangers!


C-A-P-S, Caps, Caps, Caps! :smthumbup:


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

So sorry to hear about yet more delays, K. Unbelievable. Just torturous for you. You know me enough by now to know I'd have snapped and done or said something stupid. Your advisers are right, ignore it, as best you can.

You are right, that spot is a hidden gem in the city. It had started to get a little seedy but with some TLC that could be a wonderful spot.

Hope your weekend is grand.

BW


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks, Bullwinkle. No, he still has not submitted a request to set a hearing date. My brain = why, why, why??? My AA sponsor has to keep using the 2x4s on me to stop obsessing about it, and quit going onto the courthouse website and looking up the case number to see if there has been any movement. She told me I should not be surprised by -- nor read anything into -- his foot dragging, because this has been his m/o every step of the way. I asked he why can't I email him and say "I am not OK with you dragging this out any longer." She said, NO! Do not engage, reminded me that every time I have engaged with him it has never turned out well for me -- just put me in an emotional tailspin. So I am letting it be, what else can I do?
> 
> We do rowing in a lot of the CrossFit workouts, but I have not tried it on the water (perhaps I should!). I do love going down to Jack's Boathouse on summer evenings, and kayaking the Potomac with the city view as the sun sets, then grilling out after on their public grills and picnic tables. That place is a hidden gem of the city -- I hear it is under new management, so I hope they do not change it's unique charm and character.
> 
> ...


Your AA sponsor is right. This is why you had to facebook block him. It is not healthy. Remember what I told you so long ago.

It is what it is until it isn't.

You did facebook block him didn't you. Your not spying his facebook page r u?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Your AA sponsor is right. This is why you had to facebook block him. It is not healthy. Remember what I told you so long ago.
> 
> It is what it is until it isn't.
> 
> You did facebook block him didn't you. Your not spying his facebook page r u?


Hi Punch - 

I did FB block him, but somehow he can still see my posts, so I may have done it wrong. Last night he "liked" a post I wrote about the Caps-Rangers game. Only sign of life from him in weeks that he is still out there and alive. He does not post on FB much, so nothing to see there, but you and Conrad (who I hope will be back from TAM purgatory soon!) are correct, I've got to get the courage to just "unfriend" him, but I have not been able to bring myself to do it yet. Guilty as charged for being a wimp!

Warmly, A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OMG, killer workout -- I am smoked.

Now back in sweats on the couch with the cats watching round #2 of Cap-Rangers Stanley Cup playoff match.

Life is good!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

That's the spirit!

Go Caps, glad your workout was a good one. 

If it were me I'd be swilling down a gallon of salsa, pound of chips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> That's the spirit!
> 
> Go Caps, glad your workout was a good one.
> 
> ...


Annnnd...the Caps sealed gane #2 in the series against the Rangers with a scorelss regulation play that was finished off it OT by a Mike Green goal! Well played and hard fought by both teams!

Hope your outing with D3 was enjoyable, and that you are enjoying a drama-free weekend.

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Just had the time to read through this whole thread that has been unfolding since I got here...

Listen to your AA sponsor on the obsession thing A12. I'm sorry to hear that you had a major period of drinking after a long-time sober, but you are now back in AA, and working the 12 steps. Those steps are a spiritual discipline that can powerfully change a person's life. My bet is that you were not really working them any more when you relapsed. Resentments took hold gradually leading to that old self-centered nonsense the Big Book warns us about.

Resenting your STBXH for the delay and resenting yourself are triggers as well. "How It Works" describes all this really well, as you probably know.

Don't beat yourself up too much about the relapse. Your husband did not stick with you through thick and thin; and he did not work on his own issues enough to come back to you and find a way to forgive you (think of how Gutpunch has stuck with his ex who did much worse than you).

You however are in one of the best spirituality disciplines in the entire world. You have the opportunity, though the steps and working with your sponsor to continually become a better and better person; happy, healthily other-focused, care-free and not resentful, peaceful and not spiteful, honest and not deceitful, etc. Any person working on the steps the way you are doing now is becoming a person anybody would be proud to call a friend, a spouse, or a relative. Keep your head up! Keep going to the meetings, and by God keep working on the steps! (Best book I read this year: _Recovery, the Sacred Art: The Twelve Steps as a Spiritual Practice_ by Rami Shapiro [a Rabbi]...I am only at Step four, but it has been a great resource for me personally).


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

I hope your day was a fine one, 12, it was a beautiful day, wasn't it? How was the brush with your mates? 

Arendt, inspiring stuff. 

BW.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Brunch, not brush.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Arendt -

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my thread and for your most kind feedback and thoughtful advice. I am very moved by your post, it brings tears to my eyes reading it. You are exactly right about the causeof my relapse. It is one I have heard repeatedly in the rooms, so I know that I am not alone, and hope our "re-tread" experience can benefit others who have lots of time under their belts. Textbook story: people get a lot of clean time, and life gets reallly good, then they become complacement about their recovery, stop attending meetings, stop hearing the message, stop working with others, stop cultivating conscious contact with a higher power, take back their self-will -- and then all it takes is the right trigger. In my case a very demanding stressful new job. Then one fine day, the insane idea wins out ("Just one won't hurt" or some such hooey our disease tells us). Examples abound of how it works IF YOU WORK IT -- for example my sponsor has 23 years and still attends 4-5 meetings a week. Thanks also for the book recommendation -- I am going to check that out!

Bullwinkle, thank you for checking in. Yes, it was a beautiful weekend! I had an absolutely delightful brunch with three gal pals, and am really beginning to cultivate a more invigorated social network -- something I realized I had sort of neglected during my marriage. I hope you are taking good care of yourself and getting enough sleep, lad!

Have a great day, and be well.

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

> people get a lot of clean time, and life gets reallly good, then they become complacement about their recovery, stop attending meetings, stop hearing the message, stop working with others, stop cultivating conscious contact with a higher power, take back their self-will -- and then all it takes is the right trigger.


This is me over the last 3 months. I was talking with my IC about why I stopped going to meetings, and why I never started actually "working" the steps. I don't have a good answer, but I think it's just fear. I'm so used to being so down, that I'm afraid to try and change more once I have had a period of stability. Such a shh'ty rationalization, but it is what it is right now.

I hope you're doing well A12.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Odaat - 

I understand your fear and resistance to attending 12 step meetings and working a program of recovery, but it sounds like you found it helpful when you tried it for awhile? One of the 12 step sayings that resonates with me is: "you can't think yourself into right action, you can only act yourself into right thinking." Rather than discuss with IC why you don't attend meetings and work the steps, how about just push through your discomfort and get to a meeting, if you know they can help you (it sounds like you do know 12 step recovery helps)? Just food for thought.

I hope you are doing well, too.

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## HopelessArray (Jan 6, 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few postings, and I know it's been a few months for you but I got a very similar "I love you but I can't be married to you" speech from my husband last week. It was very shocking and the pain is unspeakable. I alternate from anger to depression to disbelief and back again. I can only hope it will get better because right now I can't see a way out of the hurt.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi HA - 

I feel for you, I truly do. This is by far the roughest experience of my life. My heart goes out to you on your journey, and know that you will be aok, regardless and all will be well, no matter how dark things may look at the moment.

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> "you can't think yourself into right action,..."


Personally,I disagree with this when the decision to relapse takes place in seconds.During those seconds you see the positive images,unless you train your mind to see the negative.Instead of "one won't hurt me and it will take the edge off",you've got to start training your mind so that the very first thing that pops into it is the image of the negative aftermath.Anyway,this is what I found worked for me.Now its just automatic for me and even though I haven't seriously considered a drink in years,when I have I get a very sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that stops me dead.

This isn't meant to be in any way disrespectful of your view A12,but just another perspective.You're a 'winner' in my book.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi TBT -

I always value your solid input. So or are saying that the best protection against relapse is thinking through the consequences? Or maintaining spiritual condition, or both?

Best, A22


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi A12,

I think both.Spiritually,I think you have to be right with the world or you just end up another white-knuckler.For me I had to start making it a negative thought and that would just open the door for me to remember all the consequences.I used to tend to just look at the opening scene or to me the scene of denial for someone like me,where everything is 'peachy keen' and all is right with the world.Now,its straight to the final act and all of its destruction,where the real reality is for me.No more denial,only acceptance...this is who I am when it comes to alcohol.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi TBT -

Thank you, that's where I need to hear -- complete surrender (steps 2 and 3). Thanks for the needed reminder!

Best, A12


----------



## Odaat (Nov 21, 2012)

TBT, A12,

Thank you both for discussing this. I need to get back in the Big Book bc it applies just as much no matter the group. My thoughts are with both of you.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Guys - 

I go by my sponsor's mantra - "Don't drink or use, no matter what." Pretty much sums up all situations


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Odaat said:


> TBT, A12,
> 
> Thank you both for discussing this. I need to get back in the Big Book bc it applies just as much no matter the group. My thoughts are with both of you.


You're welcome Odaat,and its completely understandable about your fear.I remember asking myself back then,"how am I ever going to be able to live the rest of my life without having another drink?" It was a fearful,seemingly hopeless prospect to me.Then I got into the Big Book.It was written for us...the seemingly hopeless...not hopeless.This is getting back to the basics.

Not all groups are going to be to everyone's liking,so find one where you're going to feel comfortable.Get a sponsor and be active.Don't be afraid...there's a common denominator among us all and it is a "we" program.The most important thing as far as I'm concerned is that you are completely honest with yourself and if you truly want recovery then be willing to put in an honest effort.

I wish you well my friend.Take care.

TBT


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

A lot of good discussion on this thread today. 

For me, being clean the past 16 years is simply do to the desire to use being taken from me; I didn't do anything. Utterly surrendering to God, as the Big Book says, eventually leads one to the point that we recoil from the drink, as from a putrid dish. 

My problem was that I did not continue to turn my life over, and I eventually, years down the road, replaced alcohol with other things, especially work. I am an addict: I overdo things. If I can do something till it is a problem, I generally will do it; whether it is work, exercise, drugs, recreation, whatever I start to find gives me a release from feeling some way I don't want to feel, and I have not dealt with being able to feel those feelings and have not daily surrendered my life, I tend toward doing too much. It does not have to be alcohol. 

As far as fearing not wanting to live the rest of life without drinking, and wondering what life would be like, probably boring or whatever, I hear that kind of sentiment from younger folks in meetings quite a bit. I and others who have been around a while usually talk about our past, the problems it caused us, and how we know that we would not have had to have gone through some of the things we went through if we had learned our lesson earlier and hit bottom. Bottom doesn't have to be prison, homelessness, losing everything before a person wakes up. the easier softer way is not taking a drink or using drugs till one day everything is gone, it is working the steps. Life is and ca be great. If what I need to live fully is some glass full of that sh!t then my life is kind of sad...if my friends don't understand, then I need some new friends. There are a lot of people out there who would be supportive.


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

I wish I had learned to get back to the steps before my replacements "drugs" (work in particular) caused my marriage the issues it did. My sponsor a long time ago told me, when I first surrendered that whatever happens to my life from this time forward is none of my business, I gave it to God. I forgot that and tried to live it on my own again. I became an arrogant, educated jerk, who refused to talk to anybody who would not participate in my snobbish elitist talk. Now the people who are helping me the most barely have high school educations! God, not the God of the religious fundamentalists, pulled the rug from under me and humbled me, and drove me back.

A12, hope you are doing well.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

A12, hopefully my boys last night didn't rain on your parade. 

It's a series now.

Go Blue.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hey ReGroup - 

Yeah, the Refs stank last night!  

Should be an interesting contest tomorrow night, to see if the Caps can go one up again or your guys tie up the series! 

Cheers,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

You're both dreaming, the Bruins are gonna win the Stanley Cup. Enjoy it all for now.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I see Bruins are 2-1 against the Leafs, so good luck to Caps and Bruins advancing (sorry RG -- I know I may have to eat those words!)


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Indeed. A12, I hope you are bearing up okay.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Bullwinkle said:


> You're both dreaming, the Bruins are gonna win the Stanley Cup. Enjoy it all for now.





Awakening2012 said:


> I see Bruins are 2-1 against the Leafs, so good luck to Caps and Bruins advancing (sorry RG -- I know I may have to eat those words!)


Hey it ain't over 'til its over says this TO boy!!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle - My brain is in neutral today, so I'll call it a good state of mind  Hope you are bearing up, as well.

TBT - Keeping an eye on all the playoff action is a fun distraction. I see your Leafs have their next outing with the Bruins tomorrow night at 7pm in Toronto. Maybe you and Bullwinkle can get a bet going  

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

You okay, 12?

We've heard nary a peep from you today....


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Thanks for checking in. It is he same BS I have posted on today on Conrad's "welcome back" thread:

See latest at:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/73225-greetings-friends-others-2.html

Bottom line he is passive agressive STBXH still stalling for reasons unknown, and I refuse to contact him. I'm at the point where I just don't give an S anymore. I'm all about living my life to the fullest extent possible. Went to and AA meeting tonight drenched in sweat from squeeezing in Crossfit (heavy 5x5 deadlife at 80% of 1RM Max, followed by 12 minutes as many rounds possbile of 4 sumo deadlift high pulls, 8 power cleans, 12 front squats --- who cares about public sweatinesss?). I am now watching play off hockey. I still love my STBX, and D is not want I wanted but he is going to do whatever the hell he wants to do, and I could (and may) reserve the righ to start my own proceedings 

Life goes on -- merrily, merrily down the stream, life is but a dream  

Hope you are well.

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Damn, 12. 

I obviously don't know the man but I can't imagine him dragging it out simply to torment you. I mean, why? Was he that sadistic when you were together? Like you intimated, some weird passive-aggressive thing?

WTF. 

And yet you still love him. I understand. 

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, 12.
> 
> I obviously don't know the man but I can't imagine him dragging it out simply to torment you. I mean, why? Was he that sadistic when you were together? Like you intimated, some weird passive-aggressive thing?
> 
> ...


Hi Bullwinkle - 

No, I did not see his passive aggressive side until the separation. He was a fantastic husband, the best! We were over the moon about each other, and had what I always most deeply desired: an awesome relationship where we both treated each other really well and enjoyed each other immensely. 

Until my relapse started. I think he then became the classic "Mr. Nice Guy" wherein he had (and still has) difficulty handling anger and resentment in a healthy way, and was a textbook conflict avoider. So the resentment of my drinking grew and grew, and being a "Nice Guy" he did not draw a firm boundary with me -- had he set consequences of leaving earlier on, the relapse might not have continued as long as it did and the marriage may have been more salvageable. I am NOT blaming him for anything to do with my relapse or how he dealt with it -- I accept complete responsibility. He did the best he could with the capabilities he had. 

I think the pivotal time came when I went away for 6 weeks to the rehab in Florida. I think that time and space to himself, and being free of the chaos of living with an active alcoholic made him feel more of a need and ability to detach from me emotionally and (coupled with his anger towards me) sparked a desire to get free of the marriage.

I think that in some way he still loves me, but is no longer in love with me, and he just feels he is a different person now -- a person who no longer wants to be married. I think he also could not overcome his resentments enough to forgive me, nor his fear that if he gave me another chance he would risk going through the same thing all over again if I relapsed again. I told him in our many conversations that if past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior (as he kept insisting) that I wish he would not discount the fact that he married a woman who had 14 years of recovery -- and will have it again as long as I do not repeat the mistake of neglecting my recovery.

I think you saw the nice letter he wrote (posted in this thread some time ago when he sent me the divorce papers), which sums up his thoughts nicely, and even acknowledges gratitude for the good years we had together -- that our love was real and that he does not regret our marriage. Just feels like he is not the man he was, and he can't be in it anymore.

I do still love him and hoped for R. But I also resent how painful he has made the process for me -- he claims unintentionally, but he admitted at one point that there was a part of him that wanted to get back at me, make me suffer the abandonment and betrayal he felt he suffered during my replase. 

At any rate, he knows how remorseful I am, and this is all behind us now -- I cannot undo it. And all I can do is move forward. A day at a time. We'll see how things play out -- it is not like I am in any rush to go out and start dating (no desire for that in the least). It is just more that this whole experience has been one endless agnoizing mind-F that has dragged on way to long, and if he knows there is no chance of R, I cannot understand the hold up, unless it is to continue hurting me by letting me beleive there is still a sliver of hope for R. I will start my own proceedings soon if he doesn't get off the dime.

Hope you are well. Have a great day!

Best,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

P.S. He filed with the Alexandria Circuit Court (not sure why, probably on his lawyers advice?), because we both still livein Arlington County. If I file, I wonder if I should do it in Arlington County (closer and easier for me), then we'd have duplicate D filings in two different courts - LOl! :scratchhead:


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Good point about where you end up filing, A12, I'd probably end up just going wherever is close and easier, but that's just me. 

I found your reply this morning very eloquent, albeit heartfelt. You are certainly very brave.

When I read your thread and many others on TAM, I am always struck by how so few people seem to stay together and how they don't stand by each other in times of hardship. I think I understand about your H's resentments but, well, nuff said. 

While I wouldn't wish my situation on anyone, I really meant it when I stood at the altar that day and swore I would stand by her, no matter what.

Of course there are limits to what any marriage and any human can sustain. It's all just very sad to me.

Anyways, hang tough, have a great day.

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Dear TAM Friends - 

I got an update e-mail just now from my STBXH that somewhat alleviates my limbo anxiety. Here is what he said:

"Just wanted to give you a quick update on the court date. Unfortunately, the law firm that is handling it is the "Spirit Airlines" of the legal profession. Low cost equals volume X little customer service. He has a set number of openings and flexibility is not an option. [Friend serving as corraborating witness] is coming from Annapolis and is only available on certain days because of his auction commitments. I gave them a couple of tentative dates and they are going to let me know if they get any cancellations. Worst case, end of May. Hope you are well."

I send a short "thanks for letting me know" and asked my question about what he intends to state as the reason for the D, and would he and his witness please refrain from referencing my health issues.

He said, "I doubt the question will come up, but of course, I would never say anything to embarrass you." Then he made a little joke about he'll say it was due to my intolerance of his snoring or chronic flatulence  His sense of humor was always oneof his greatest assets and one of the things I miss the most about him.

I accept that he is going ahead with the D, but cannot help feeling sad.

Heavy hearted today, - A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi A-12. 6 days of not getting on a computer must be a record for me, how is everything. have I missed anything good bad or ugly? I have really been enjoying myself with my grandson.... It takes you to a hole new place... Hardly had time to feal sorry for myself at all. My stbxh showed up at the house right before I left and said he wanted to check oit and stuff on car. he ended up taking the car and filling it up for me gave me a little $ for the trip and asked me to take pictures for him. I was actually quite moved by it at the time. Like you I try to analize every word and action, but have come to the conclusion that I will never know or understand what his actions mean. I sent him a cute picture of our grandson (Boaz) in the radio flyer wagon my stbxh and I got for him for the baby shower last year and he sent me back a picture of himself saying for Boaz. ????? needless to say that was the last pic I sent him. Boaz is 5 months old and is not going to be looking at a pic of my stbx on my phone... how stupid.

i have some thoughts about your last post but Boaz woke up so i will finish this later..... blessings.....DURC


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Sorry, A12. I know you were looking for some closure but it is indeed sad.

BW


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Bullwinkle -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you DYRC - Your word of encoragement are much appreciated as I aproach the final dagger. What I can' fathom is how he went to beogn the love of my life and the most imporatant person to me, to someone I barely know or want to know. It is just the hardest thing I've ever faced :-(

Best, - A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

A12, 

Whoever is counseling you for patience is worth listening to imo. What do you really have to lose at this point? You don't really want it over anyhow, so why not let it play out?

Also, I noticed that you impart motives to your STBXH such as that he is being "passive-aggressive" by not filing for a date. In actuality, he is probably still struggling with this, based the letter he sent to you with the papers, which was a thoughtful letter actually.

Don't impart bad motives to him, it just makes you resentful and angry, and impatient. He's struggling like you. Maybe wait another month or so, and if you haven't heard, just ask him if he has any "updates" (without pushing him toward the final date).

Just some thoughts. Again, I'd counsel patience as well.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Arendt - 

Thanks for your thoughtful words and good advice. However, as I posted on my thread yesterday morning (pasted below), the axe has already fallen. Based on STBXH's email from yesterday included in my post below, barring some miracle, he is going ahead with the D. I actually appreciate the fact that he did me the courtesy of telling me the reason for the delay, lest I be left wondering if might be having second thougths. 

I am also proud to report that I FINALLY UN-FRIENDED HIM ON FACEBOOOK! It actually felt really good! Great step towards detaching. I also de-friended of each person on my FB who was more his friend than mine (already un-friended STBXH's family awhile ago). 

I have moments of sadness, which I'm sure will peak again the day of the actual D and when I receive a copy of the D decree. But I already feel more peaceful being out of limbo -- getting closure really helps with the acceptance thing.

He is supposed to let me know when the date is set for the hearing, and I was thinking about attending. But he will be there with one of his buddies to serve as his "corrobarating witness." I sure will not attend alone if I do go -- I'll bring a friend for support. But I'm leaning towards not going -- I think it would only cause me more pain, and would not do me any good.

Thanks again. Hope you are well. Best,- A12

From yesterday:

```

```
Dear TAM Friends - 

I got an update e-mail just now from my STBXH that somewhat alleviates my limbo anxiety. Here is what he said:

"Just wanted to give you a quick update on the court date. Unfortunately, the law firm that is handling it is the "Spirit Airlines" of the legal profession. Low cost equals volume X little customer service. He has a set number of openings and flexibility is not an option. [Friend serving as corraborating witness] is coming from Annapolis and is only available on certain days because of his auction commitments. I gave them a couple of tentative dates and they are going to let me know if they get any cancellations. Worst case, end of May. Hope you are well."

I send a short "thanks for letting me know" and asked my question about what he intends to state as the reason for the D, and would he and his witness please refrain from referencing my health issues.

He said, "I doubt the question will come up, but of course, I would never say anything to embarrass you." Then he made a little joke about he'll say it was due to my intolerance of his snoring or chronic flatulence  His sense of humor was always oneof his greatest assets and one of the things I miss the most about him.

I accept that he is going ahead with the D, but cannot help feeling sad.

Heavy hearted today, - A12

```

```


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Very eloquent, as usual, A12.

You do sound relieved.

BW


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle. I know it sounds juvenile, but un-friending him on Facebook was so freeing. Some people are better able than others to detach emotionaly during the separation, but I had a really hard time with that. Despite the fact theat STBXH had already long ago detached. So getting the D finalized will help me move on emotionally, I think.

If you are proceeding with D, and R is 100% off the table, my best advice is to rip the bandaid off quickly. It stings at first, but is far better than the hell of the long slow burn I went through.

Best,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks, 12. I hear you. And I don't think things like the Facebook thing juvenile. My WW went to great pains to make sure I was aware of each little step at detachment on her part. 

Bringing our wedding picture home from work. Changing the welcome mat on the front steps from our married name to WELCOME. Little things that still were symbolic. 

But I do sense that you are experiencing some sense of closure.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Thanks for your kind words. My, you were up late again last night -- sorry about the insomnia. I hope you were able to sleep in a little with your sister there to get up and start the day with L'il Penguin?

I hope you guys have some fun plans for this weekend, something to get your mind off your troubles --maybe take in a family-friendly movie or show.

I'll soon be moving over to the Life After Divorce (LAD) aisle, as my biggest mental hurdle now is embracing being unmarried, adjusting to a new chapter without STBXH in it, and the remnants of greiving the lost love, intimacy and companionship. I do make efforts to get out and be social, but you can't avoid coming home and waking up to just the cats each day, and the house feels so quiet and empty sometimes -- I start missing him, and well... I obviously still have some healing to do. I've started putting on some beautiful classical music first thing in the morning to help fill the quietness and calm my nerves. Little things like that can help, and I'm hoping folks on the LAD section of TAM who are going through the same thing may have additional tips. For people with kids, I imagine the "aloneness" is not as big as deal, because you have the child (or children) to focus on.

As for company, I have zero desire to jump into dating, and am told that's a mistake until you are further along in getting over your D. It can end up delying your healing, because you are not ready to intimately bond with someone else, even when the mutual intention is just for an exclusive realationship scenario (agreement that neither party is looking for a future marriage committment). I sure can't see myself ever getting re-married, but Chucky insists that he could retire in Boca Raton if he has a nickle for everyone who has said that, but gone on to tie the knot again 

I don't know -- I look around me and see many examples of women who are happily single. But for me, it is not what I wanted or envisioned for my life so I don't feel too thrilled about being unmarried. I do try to look at the upside of it -- the freedom, the flexibility, doing whatever the heck I want (no compromising). I hope eventually the "new normal" will feel happier and more comfortable. Sounds cliche, but I guess it just takes time (and therapy - LOL!).

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Just blew off some steam, and it really helped:


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Whew A12....I feel so sedentary!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12, your exercise regimen today made my head hurt just reading it. I am humbled. 

What you wrote today, I understand. It is such a struggle. I'm like you, I can't imagine a different relationship. I can't imagine ever opening my heart enough to let someone else creep in there, replace R, despite her many transgressions. 

Maybe it is hopeless. Time will tell. 

Also, like you, I am thinking lately about abandoning this thread. Not to go to a different one, but to just be done.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Also, like you, I am thinking lately about abandoning this thread. Not to go to a different one, but to just be done.


I sometimes have the same feeling. I don't need to obsessively cling to TAM like a lifeline as I did for so many months. And I've never participtaed in an online forum like this before. This past week I was kind of "what's the point anymore?" However, I find writing these updates, etc keeps me focused on what steps I need to take for recovery from this. Even if it's just journaling. And hopefully someone else can take solace from the fact they are not alone in this like I did for so long.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12, your exercise regimen today made my head hurt just reading it. I am humbled.
> 
> What you wrote today, I understand. It is such a struggle. I'm like you, I can't imagine a different relationship. I can't imagine ever opening my heart enough to let someone else creep in there, replace R, despite her many transgressions.
> 
> ...


Hi Bullwinkle - 

Nothing is hopeless, we still have our lives to live regaardless if your WS straightens herself out to the extent you could forgive and allow her a chance to redeem herself. Even if you determine you have to let her go for the best of all concened, despite still loving her, in time you would do as many have before you: be a great Dad and a good man, go on to rebuild, thrive and have a happy life. You have a lot of strength in you, we have all seen it!

As to quitting TAM, I hope you do not. We would miss your wit and courage -- your power of example to others going through similar struggles.

Enjoy this beautiful Sunday!

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thank you DYRC - Your word of encoragement are much appreciated as I aproach the final dagger. What I can' fathom is how he went to beogn the love of my life and the most imporatant person to me, to someone I barely know or want to know. It is just the hardest thing I've ever faced :-(
> 
> Best, - A12


A12 - Been reading this thread and relating in so many ways. I know the above feeling all too well. 

My STBXH resented me as well for depression and other issues I went through early on in our marriage. Something a friend told me - marriage is not only smelling roses and throwing around confetti. There are hard times where one spouse or the other needs support. It is rarely 50/50. 

To think otherwise is unrealistic and immature. There are people out there who will accept us for the good, bad, and in between. Falling short is human, but running a relationship into the ground with no effort to repair it and then totally disconnecting is not only cowardly, but cruel. You deserve someone with a higher standard of personal integrity/responsibility. We both do. 

Lastly - your workout routine is insane! You have me inspired on all fronts. Going to try and go for a long walk on Monday and maybe work in a few sit-ups. Hey, it's a start.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi BNW- 

Thank you so much for your encouraging words! Your post really uplifted me this morning, as I had been feeling a little blue (Sundays are hard for some reason -- I need to start pro-actively booking some plans or activities ahead of time). 

Going for a long walk is a great start -- good for you! I'm fortunate to have great support around me, and my CrossFit gym is a real help, too. We who have converted to the CrossFit cult, will always try to pursuade others to try it  Worth every penny! It releases stress anger and fear, and builds confidence like you would not beleive! Plus it is a community of supportive, fun, positive, upbeat people. Do not be intimidated by the toughness -- we have every level of athlete at my affiliate, and the coaches will always provide "scaling" options to make every workout tailored to your capacity. You can find CrossFit affiliates near you at: Official CrossFit Affiliate Gym Locator

Kudos on your great attitude and outlook, and thanks again for the insiration!

Cheers, A12


----------



## Chopsy (Oct 10, 2012)

Hey A12, hope you're having a lovely Sunday. I always find weekends hard too. Well done on your Crossfit workout-blows my mind how much you do! I need to get back into training, definitely part of my goals. I'm doing a lot of goal planning, 3 months,6 months, 1year,2 Years etc.well worth doing, am coming up with a lot of positive and exciting stuff.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, 12, thank you for your kind words yesterday. I'm sorry for such a late reply, I wasn't myself yesterday afternoon, just sort of dragged my sorry butt around, didn't communicate much. fell off the wagon and drank with my sister, regretted it, back on board again.

I hope your Sunday was alright, I know you find the weekend days harder.

BW


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi A12. 

Caps game?


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Not saying one word. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

D'OH!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Watching with baited breath.... Rangers now up 3-0, does not look good :-(


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Ovi was drinking again last night... Or just playing like it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh my....


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Leafs-Bruins...sudden death!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Watching....


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Leafs lose...


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

They played well....


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Bullwinkle said:


> They played well....


...yet...they let it slip away.Bruins just never gave up.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, helluva game. 

Sorry about Caps, A12.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Congrats on the Bruins win, BW -- good luck wit dem Rangers!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bullwinkle said:


> Yes, helluva game.
> 
> Sorry about Caps, A12.


The Caps appear to be the Eastern version of the St. Louis Blues.

Year in and year out, dependable bridesmaids.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Yep, never the bride :-(


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, A12, I hope you're keeping well. 

J


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Just butting in here but have you (A12) and BW thought about getting together for coffee sometime? You guys are in the same city and good "buddies" on here. Just wondering if the friendships here on TAM ever translate IRL.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle - Thanks for asking and caring, you are such a kind gent  I am OK, feel like IC is helping me with acceptance and the things I need to work on to rebuild. Not obsessing as much about STBXH, though I am swamped right now at my job which probably helps. How did it go with WS tonight?! Hope you are OK?

Soca - BW and I have thought of getting together for coffee and maybe still might, but have been so far overwhelmed with keeping our respective s**t together that we haven't made it happen yet. I would welcome the opportunity on a safe mutual support basis if and when the time comes. Thanks for the suggestion.

Warm Regards, A12


----------



## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Final Dagger - Please Help!!!*



soca70 said:


> Just wondering if the friendships here on TAM ever translate IRL.


I will chime in and say yes, they sure can  :thumbup:


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Who said anything about a safe mutual supportive basis? I'm looking for an alcohol and drug-induced long weekend of apalling debauchery and ultimate regret in Grand Cayman. 

Just kidding, 12. I'm happy to hear things are sounding better, albeit slowly. Being busy is very helpful, these poor souls that are alone and or unemployed with a lot of time on their hands, that must be awful.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Got 'er done. Boom!

View attachment 3458


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Here's my gym, to give you a sense of it. Can you tell I love it? My saving grace 

View attachment 3466


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

That workout scares me. 

Finishing on-ramp on Wednesday.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Tron -

Fishing sounds fun! I spent the rest of the afternoon volunteering as a judge for the "Battle of the Beltway" competition, where our best male and female athlettes from each gym competed against another local Crossfit box in a best of five workout series -- our gym won at round four, thank God no fifth grueling challenge tie breaker. Amazing awe-inspiring athletes on both side, and each work out of epic difficulty (Google muscle ups). It was just a fun afteroon of lots of spectators and increbible effort from all competitor athletes fro both CrossFit boxes. Awe inspiring!

I am more in the "masters division" -- not at that elitle level of thes younger athetes , but still love watching and cheering on our comrades. I mean the stuff they did in those 4 workouts boggles the mind -- we're tallking mucle up handstand puch ups, heavy high volume front squats, running and roiwing sprints, box jumps, Atlas stones (Google Atla stones), hand stand walks and toes to bars among other feats! 

So remarkably grueling, and yet they find it "fun." It isnpires me to keep going at my own pace  At my age, my goal is to just not hurt myself so I ca keeo doing it. I am judicious and compete only against myself  It is a great confidence booster for divorce recovery, that's for sure!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

There is a group that has been training next to us for a few weeks that are going to San Antonio regional competition next weekend. This group apparently does very well at those competitions. Scary strong.

I am not a small guy, but I think some of those women could throw me across the gym.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

hmm, I have to say you have inspired me.. I have been such a slacker the past couple of weeks.. all I did on vacation was pull my little chunker grandson in a ryder wagon for some walks.. (but mad those hills killed me). need to get back in the swing and lose the 3 pounds I gained...


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, 12. Hope your day on the Hill was productive. Hope you're okay

J


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Good Morning All - 

Well, the final dagger, as my thread is themed, is apparently imminent. I just read an email my STBXH sent late last night, informing me of the D hearing date and time (Tuesday morning, 5/28).

In his note, he said he is honoring his word of notifying me of the D hearing date, but that he "prefer I not be there" -- though he understands it is my right to attend if I so choose.

I am torn about this. I wish I could be in Tahiti on a beach that day, like Tron suggested, but that isn't going to be possible. Should I attend the hearing just to make him uncomfortable, make him have to face me? Or not?

And should I bother replying to his email, just saying "thanks for letting me know"? Or don't bother?

Awhile ago I had sent him a link to that book lots of the men recommend on TAM ("No More Mr. Nice Guy"), and I never thought he'd read it, but he closed his email saying "by the way, thanks for the link you sent to that book -- I wish I had read it 20 years ago."
I'm surprised he read it (he's not one for self-help stuff). So I guess it resonated with him, but obviously too late to turn things around for him and the demise of our marriage. 

I will be divorced as of next Tuesday. After this long excruciating journey, I'm letting this sink in. Hoping it will actually be a releif, but not sure on the above two questions, if anyone has thoughts.

Thanks! Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Just my opinion but I would go: I would look him in the eyes with dignity through the whole thing and make him accountable that he is flipping the switch on the electric chair and killing your marriage. I had to look at my stbxh knowing I was doing it and I told him this is on you not me....and he agreed and hung his head.. He could not look me in the eyes at all. I felt vindicated.


----------



## HopelessArray (Jan 6, 2012)

Well, A12, since Tahiti isn't an option, my question would be, what do YOU want to do on that day? Will it bring you a measure of closure to attend? If it will comfort you at all or help you in any way, then you should go, and your STBX has absolutely no place to ask you not to attend. 

If your only reason for attending is to make him uncomfortable, then I would pass. It's time to start thinking about YOU and what will bring YOU peace and help YOU deal with the finality of all this. He is no longer relevant. 

And IMHO, there's no need to reply to his email. There's really nothing to say at this point.

I'll be thinking of you that day, I'm sorry we are all having to go through this.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you DYRC2 and HA - 

I greatly appreciate your kind words and feedback. I will not respond to his email, but am sorely tempted to say "thanks a lot for standing by me and honoring you marriage vows, for 'better or worse'" -- just snarky and no point to it, I know I need to turn that resentful feeling around to one of forgiveness and acceptance.

As to attending the hearing, you make a good point HA, that if I do go, it should be because I feel it will benefit me in some way, not to make him squirm. But I also see DYRC2's point about vindication -- wanting to finally see him take responsibility for throwing away our marriage, without having lifted a finger to even see whether MC might have helped save it. It could be that MC would have made no difference anyway, but seeing as he refused it, we will never know.
But truthfully, I can't be certain that I wouldn't get emotional, and I can't take that chance of letting him see my sorrow and disappointment.

Thanks again for your kind replies. I'm going to do my best to enjoy the long holiday weekend, and keep myself busy. But the finality that I will officially be single again is still sinking in, and may be for awhile. Hopefully I will be able to embrace the "new normal" and break free from the hurt and regrets of the past.

Warm Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Morning, A12. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. The sense of finality, the end of an era. The beginning of a new life, but, understandably, one you face with concern and of course, some fear. Wouldn't be human otherwise.

I would go to the hearing. Not to make him squirm or to be contrary. Not to exact some kind of last-minute revenge.

I would go, kinda like what DYRC said, for vindication. I would probably show up, look him in the eye, tell him you felt you just had to be there, ask for a brief look at the paperwork, then, turn and walk out.

Before you say something snarky or before the waterworks burst. 

But I would go, albeit very briefly.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks, Bullwinkle - 

I am trying not to overthink it, and I am NOT going to reply to his email, but the other thing I have to repress myself from saying to him is: "I hope you will be happy that you are getting what you wanted, and will no longer have me and the marriage to blame all your unhappiness on." Not my concern anymore, I know -- just had to get that out.

The D hearing is the ritual marking the end to a hugely significant era of my life, so part of me agrees with you that I should be there to witness the official death of the marriage. But another fear I also have about attending is I think it is a cattle call kind of scenario, starting at 9:00am the judge begins calling up the cases from a batch of people who've had their hearings assigned for that day. So I could be in a situation of standing or sitting around in the court room waiting indefinitely for the case to be called, while STBXH is there with his attorney and his witness. I'm going to discuss it with my sponsor tonight, but if I go, I think I should maybe bring someone with me for support -- so it is not just me and the three of them (STBXH and his witness -- who I know is going to be his friend and business partner who attended our wedding -- and STBXH's lawyer). Ugh... At least closure is in sight.

Thanks again for all your support! I hope you are bearing up OK, and that you can get re-charged over the long Memorial Day weekend.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

12 -

Thanks for your kind words and support.

I hear you - I hadn't thought of the cattle call nature of the divorce court proceedings. But what you said about bringing a friend for support, etc. makes good sense to me. 

Upon reflection, I would still go, with a close friend or relative, but again, I would simply make an appearance, say hello, wish everyone well, then leave.

But go with your gut.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Tell me again why you would need to go to this?

Simple rule of life......If it causes you pain, then don't do it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Tell me again why you would need to go to this?
> 
> Simple rule of life......If it causes you pain, then don't do it.


Hi GP - 

Thank you, I think you are right. It will cause me pain, and little or no gain. 

I hope you are doing OK with this new phase you are in, and that all goes well for you!

Onwards, - A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

HopelessArray said:


> And IMHO, there's no need to reply to his email. There's really nothing to say at this point.


As I've said, I'm not going to respond, but I partly would also feel like asking him: "Why do you prefer me not to be there, since you no longer care and are done, why should it make you uncomfortable? I have not decided whether to attend."


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> As I've said, I'm not going to respond, but I partly would also feel like asking him: "Why do you prefer me not to be there, since you no longer care and are done, why should it make you uncomfortable? I have not decided whether to attend."


Say it here and not to him.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Roger that, GP - 

But I still can't help feeling he's a coward telling me he'd prefer I not be at the divorce hearing. He doesn't want to have to face me -- well of course not! Make it as easy on him as possible. He has not made this process easy for me (though he was generous financially, thank GOD, I'll give him that). Why should I make it easy for him by complying and staying away?

Best,- A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Using the word "coward" in my view indicates that you are trying to control him as much as he's wanting to control you. 

On the other hand, I certainly understand the feeling. Doesn't make it helpful to feed it, but I struggle there too.


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Simple rule of life......If it causes you pain, then don't do it.


Working out has taught me that there are types of pain: pain that indicates work and growth and which I eventually even kind of like. It is a dull pain that is hard to describe, but in some ways satisfying. There is, second, the sharp pain that indicates injury and which, when it occurs, means I have to stop what I doing and rest to recover. It is not good pain at all; I never get used to it, and it never feels good to me.

Simply rule of life modified: If it causes you pain that will never feel good, then don't do it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Arendt said:


> Using the word "coward" in my view indicates that you are trying to control him as much as he's wanting to control you.
> 
> On the other hand, I certainly understand the feeling. Doesn't make it helpful to feed it, but I struggle there too.


Hi Arendt - 

Help me understand, if you can -- how is my attribution of cowardice to STBXH trying to control him? I get it, the marriage is already dead, so the D just closes the coffin -- so why shoud he care if I'm there? Some kind of guilt or akwardness?

Thank you for your reflection on types of pain. My boss gave us the afternoon off for all the overtime we put in earlier this week, so I just came from a CrossFit **ss-whooping and even though it hurt it, it felt good  

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

It just seems like when we resort to those kinds of labels it signals some kind of hurt which means we do care about something, not that we don't. You care about something in this situation, you care about being able to be there to see it to the end. You aren't trying to control him directly, but in your mind, you may be labeling him in that way rather than another way (perhaps a charitable way) because it makes it easier for you to deal with the rejection. If he doesn't behave the way you want him to do so, it hurts you, so you resort to using labels and insults in your own mind (even though you don't say them to him) in order to make the pain easier to deal with.

So my question would be: when you examine yourself honestly, is it true that you are labeling him in that way to make it easier to deal with this rejection? If so, then you still have a lot to work on, and the naming you are engaging in is masking something for you to work on, and you better not run from facing that in yourself. How you deal with pain...alcohol, distancing techniques...

Just some thoughts...maybe they apply.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Arendt - 

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply and explanation. So it basically boils down to: if I'm labelling him in some derogatory way in my mind to help ease the pain of the rejection, I have a resentment?

I wonder how many pages long will my inventory be? LOL!

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

There is only one way to find out...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All -

Two more days until my D will be finalized. I have been feeling a little better, more accepting that my marriage is ending, though it is not the outcome I hoped for.

My latest bit of internal lunacy -- the day of the D (Tuesday) I am tempted to send him an email that says:

###

R.I.P. [His Last Name]-[My Last Name] Marriage: 
4/6/2007-5/27/2013

Thank you for taking care of this. If you would please be so kind as to send my a copy of the final decree for my records, I would greatly appreciate it. Have a nice life.

###

I know, rumination du jour...!

Best, A12


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Good morning A12.

Pretty normal I think to ruminate in this way.Most people don't enter into marriage lightly,so seeing its end is something that's not taken lightly either.Its a major life investment so its understandable to feel a variety of things when it hasn't ended the way you had hoped.All the 'shoulda,coulda,woulda,if onlys and maybe ifs' etc.will fade in time and you'll be better able to view things from a distance.

I don't know if you ever mentioned it,but do you see some type of relationship with him after the divorce is final or will it be a complete break? What is realistic for you in moving on?

Hope you're able to find a bit of distraction and have a good day.

TBT


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi TBT - 

Thanks for the helpful feedback. So you would recommend against sending him the aforementioned email the day of the D?

I would like to think we could be friends, but that's untenable as long as one party (me) still has romantic feelings and the other (STBXH). We used to immensely enjoy each other's company, but now what with all the baggage between us....I don't know. Maybe someday when we're both with someone else - LOL! 

Never say never -- maybe in the future once I have entirely let go of any romantic feeling for him, who knows? But as of now, trying to be friends with him would be too painful for me, and would impede me from moving on because I would still be harboring hopes of getting back together. And I certainly would NEVER be the one to initiate any "friendship" overtures or invites -- it would have to come from him. I don't chase men. I've learned that lesson -- it never worked for me, because I'm only attracted to masculine men who like to do the chasing ;-) 

It is a beautiful day, and I've just spent a lazy morning getting caffeinated and reading the Sunday paper and a bit more of the DeMello book. Off for a jog, then might go see the "Great Gatsby."

Hope you are well, and thanks again!

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awake,

Easy test for you.

Does the thought of him banging someone else hurt you?

If it does, you simply cannot be friends.

It would be you not caring for you.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Awake,
> 
> Easy test for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Conrad -- good litmus test on whether the "friends" thing is even an option. It made me think, and you know what? Maybe it is the DeMello getting to me, but I sincerely do want him to be happy, so if banging someone else would make him happy, then actually -- yes -- I am OK with that, though I wouldn't want to watch or hear sordid details - LOL! :rofl: Maybe this means I have let go more than I thought!

I honestly want us both to be happy and to find ourselves in a better place -- whether with others or on our own. We were SUPER happy together for a good stretch, and of course I hoped that could be revived. But it is what it is -- I know my only peace is letting things be and not putting judgement on things. Not clinging to the past, releasing expectations, appreciating the present moment and laughing at the "stories" my brain likes to spin -- it's the only way  

So would you recommend "no" on sending the email I was contemplating sending the day of the D?

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I would recommend "no"

Here's the thing.

You've already talked enough.

Talk less - do more.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

OK, thanks -- well, there is no more "doing" to be done as concerns STBXH, either. Just a silent goodbye, I guess....


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> OK, thanks -- well, there is no more "doing" to be done as concerns STBXH, either. Just a silent goodbye, I guess....


The doing is for you.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> Just a silent goodbye, I guess....


I'm sorry K.Take care.{hug}


ETA- I've been thinking about it and you know what? Do what you want to do about it...what will suit you and make you feel better! I believe in your judgement.


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> R.I.P. [His Last Name]-[My Last Name] Marriage:
> 4/6/2007-5/27/2013
> 
> Thank you for taking care of this. If you would please be so kind as to send my a copy of the final decree for my records, I would greatly appreciate it. Have a nice life.


Having no experience at this, I would think the courts will send you a copy, you don't have to ask him. 

In any case, the last line seems designed to hurt and at least reveals that you have some lingering issues to deal with regarding the divorce. So you don't end it well there. "I wish you well," or something would be better.

But the point of the email is to make sure you get a final copy of the decree, but something tells me the courts will automatically send it to you; he has nothing to do with that. So you are sending this for some other reason and he will see it; you haven't let go.

I'm sorry you are going through this and this day is coming soon. It will be hard for you. Make sure you are in touch with your sponsor. Are you in counseling?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Arendt - 

You some good points, thanks. No reason to email him, really -- as you say, it will only show I haven't let go. 

Yes, I am in regular communication with my sponsor, and yes I am in IC. 

You say "it will be hard for me" -- um, I know you mean well, but this is not so helpful? Yes, perhaps it will be hard, but how about we not assume so, OK? Nothing is harder than what I have aleady been through. I prefer what my brother wrote when I emailed him about the D being finalized Tuesday: "Great! Congratulations, I'm sure this will be a huge relief for you!"

Anyway, I have a busy schedule at work Tuesday starting with some meeting downtown that morning, so hopefully won't have much time to dwell on it. I fact, maybe I should make some plans with friends Tuesday evening to celebrate it ;-) 

Best Regards, - A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Yeah, relief is a good word.


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks, Conrad -- good litmus test on whether the "friends" thing is even an option. It made me think, and you know what? Maybe it is the DeMello getting to me, but I sincerely do want him to be happy, so if banging someone else would make him happy, then actually -- yes -- I am OK with that, though I wouldn't want to watch or hear sordid details - LOL! :rofl: Maybe this means I have let go more than I thought!


And that you truly do love this person. You want him to be happy even if he's with someone else. Love is not selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey,you, did you see Gatsby?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi BW-

I didn't, I was ridiculously lazy today but did a lot of reading which did me good. I was insanely sore from Friday and Saturday brutal CrossFit -- quads fried, felt like I had been hit by a truck, ached all over (yeah, I'm a baby!). So I went for a massage, which helped a lot! May get to that movie tomorrow --so glad for the extra day off! And you -- any Memorial Day plans?

Cheers, A12


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hey A12, I just wanted to pop in and let you know I'll be thinking of you on Tuesday. I guess you might want to look at what is the most important thing to you. To be there no matter what? To not let him see you cry? To make him feel awful by making him look at you while he's in court? Some other thing? Nobody knows those answers but you. I do agree that, if you go, take someone with you. I had my lawyer, and it was nice having that other person to distract my thoughts.

I was in the opposite position from yours: _I_ asked _Ex_ not to be there on the day of our hearing. He wanted the split, wouldn't do MC, cheated, etc., but I ended up being the one to do all the lifting for the D, as he just doesn't do much of anything. I honestly didn't know how I'd react in the courtroom, and I didn't want him to see any emotion from me, nor did I want some insincere hug or handshake when it was over. Worst of all, I didn't want him to bring posGF (who was the OW). But point is, I was _really ready_ for the divorce by then. I had no more love for him, no respect for him, didn't even like him. But I _still_ couldn't predict how I'd feel hearing the gavel come down, ending my dream of 'til death do us part.' (He did show up against my request, I was able to get him to leave before the hearing, and upon leaving, he shook my hand. Ugh) When it was over, i merely texted the word 'Done.' Any other kind of sentimentality felt false, considering. I felt like it was a little bit of control that I could take in a situation I never wanted in the beginning. 

Do what feels best for you. 

((hugs)) to you, A12. I hope you can have a relaxing day tomorrow.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, 12, sorry for late reply, passed out early in the recliner. Sounds like you needed a day of rest, literally. Good for you. My sister went to see Gatsby yesterday and said it was rubbish but that the sets were incredible, the clothes and mansions and cars and di Caprio never looked hotter. Sign ME up for a ticket. 

AngelP, very thoughtful reply. Yes, 12, we'll be thinking of you tomorrow.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

A12, I'll be thinking of you today and tomorrow. Hang in there, and good idea on not sending the email.

You may be surprised how you feel tomorrow. If anything, haven't we learned that we can't predict our emotions?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All -

Thanks so much for the words of support and encouragement re: my divorce at last being finalized tomorrow. It's been such a long, draining journey, and you've all been Saints to stick with me through the roller coaster ( and the broken record nature of it!).

I'm hoping I'll mostly just feel relief -- for an end to the drama and mind-F. Putting it all behind me and getting to a more peaceful, serene place.

My latest notion is to explore moving to a different Unit within my Condo building (which I love, for it's location, style, amenities, and the sense of community). Some neighbors are close friends, who have been a true God send as part of my support network. They knew my STBXH and our whole story, and are firmly in my corner . I have a realtor friend in the building, and I'm going to float this with her -- see if she can keep an eye out for a Unit coming on the market in the same price range. Too many memories here, and ghosts of the past. I just think a new space might boost me in making a new start.

Thanks again -- you guys have been life savers! I guess after tomorrow I should be moving to the "Life After Divorce" section, but look forward to staying in touch and will be thinking of you all, and wishing you the best!

Warm Regards, - A12

P.S. My, some of y'all are early risers (or insomniac s?)!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

WTH, stupid Facebook! Awhile ago, I "unfriended" the man who will be my ex-husband as of tomorrow. Yet I was perusing my FB newsfeed and <<<wham>>> I get slapped with a huge trigger, a picture of him pops up in my newsfeed, because one of my relatives who is still on his "Friends" list "liked" the photo :-( 

How does stupid FB work, since when do things someone In your own FB network "likes" show up on your newsfeed? Has it always been like that? I figured it would be controlling to ask my family and friends to unfriend him, now that we're getting divorced -- who am I to tell them what to do? But it peeved me that this relative who "liked" his picture knows we are divorcing. And it wasn't just any photo, it was one of symbolism and significance: an old picture he used in his "personals" ad from the dating site on which we met in 2004! So it is the first image I ever saw of him, even before meeting him in person on our first date.

I clicked the"Hide" button quick as lightening. But how bizarre and wretched to have to see that image the day before our divorce --ugh!!! Dislike!

Maybe it's time to ditch Facebook.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm sorry, A12. That is hard. It's the surprises that are always the worst. I think I've pretty much blocked everyone we have in common unless they're posting directly to my wall -- I think? Can you do that? I just know I don't ever see any updates from his family or friends, but sometimes they like something I post or have sent me bday wishes, etc.

If you don't get anything out of it, you might want to disconnect. I just hate to see this stupid divorce stuff cause the BS to have to make all kinds of changes to our lives, when they just go merrily along.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> WTH, stupid Facebook! Awhile ago, I "unfriended" the man who will be my ex-husband as of tomorrow. Yet I was perusing my FB newsfeed and <<<wham>>> I get slapped with a huge trigger, a picture of him pops up in my newsfeed, because one of my relatives who is still on his "Friends" list "liked" the photo :-(
> 
> How does stupid FB work, since when do things someone In your own FB network "likes" show up on your newsfeed? Has it always been like that? I figured it would be controlling to ask my family and friends to unfriend him, now that we're getting divorced -- who am I to tell them what to do? But it peeved me that this relative who "liked" his picture knows we are divorcing. And it wasn't just any photo, it was one of symbolism and significance: an old picture he used in his "personals" ad from the dating site on which we met in 2004! So it is the first image I ever saw of him, even before meeting him in person on our first date.
> 
> ...


A12 - I had to go into FB on Friday to switch out my notification email from my work one to a personal one as my job is changing. I've had my account deactivated for months. I was forcing myself not to look at anything else as I didn't want to see anything that couldn't be unseen. It took me days to get the nerve up to do this. And now I have accidentally reactivated the dang thing and am going to have to get back on it again to deactivate. My advice - shut it down and don't look back on it!


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> WTH, stupid Facebook! Awhile ago, I "unfriended" the man who will be my ex-husband as of tomorrow. Yet I was perusing my FB newsfeed and <<<wham>>> I get slapped with a huge trigger, a picture of him pops up in my newsfeed, because one of my relatives who is still on his "Friends" list "liked" the photo :-(
> 
> How does stupid FB work, since when do things someone In your own FB network "likes" show up on your newsfeed? Has it always been like that? I figured it would be controlling to ask my family and friends to unfriend him, now that we're getting divorced -- who am I to tell them what to do? But it peeved me that this relative who "liked" his picture knows we are divorcing. And it wasn't just any photo, it was one of symbolism and significance: an old picture he used in his "personals" ad from the dating site on which we met in 2004! So it is the first image I ever saw of him, even before meeting him in person on our first date.
> 
> ...


You could try blocking him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Agreed, 12. I tried to access WW's FB account a few weeks ago out of habit and realized she had defriended me. Foe some reason I found it very painful. 

It's all so crazy, this social media B.S.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

hank_rea said:


> You could try blocking him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Hank - 

But if I "unfriended" him (weeks ago), isn't that the same as blocking? I need some way to block from my timeline any posts that show up from mutual friends "liking" something on his page. I find it to be kind of hilarious he is using that 2004 picture as his profile picture - LOL! The same one he used on his online dating profile when we first met -- that's nearly 10 years ago, for any lady friend he's hoping to attract via FB  Not exactly current. Whatever! Good luck to him, I never want to see him again. 

Best,- A12


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Agreed, 12. I tried to access WW's FB account a few weeks ago out of habit and realized she had defriended me. Foe some reason I found it very painful.
> 
> It's all so crazy, this social media B.S.


Hi BW - 

Ugh, yeah, it is stupid but those little things do hurt -- just have to brush it off, and not let it get to us.

Worse would be seeing pics of her and OM on her FB page (if they still have something going on? I thought Leprochaun and his wife were reconciling?), so better not to see her FB anymore.

Hang in there, and good luck with your meeting tomorrow with your attorney. As to the option of even temporarily taking D3 out of the country, doesn't that require both parents' permission? I guess your lawyer will know.

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Morning, 12, glad to hear you're facing this day with some stoicism, you're apparently not in a dark room....

Yes, I think the act of WS's de-friending me on FB was more an act of her showing me yet another little tidbit of her eliminating me from her life; I don't think she did it to hide anything. It's funny, the last picture I saw on her FB was she and OM both addressing a conference together at her organization. Just seeing them together on a stage made me feel bad....

You are right, I will need WS's permission to take D3 out of ther country. More to follow.

Hang tough, kid. I'd offer to send a bottle over but your sponsor would hunt me down like a dog and shoot me.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Good morning, Bullwinkle -

Thanks for your kind words. Wishing the best for you, too. This is painful stuff, but you are courageous, resilient and have a big heart -- I know you will do the right thing for D3 and yourself.

Best Regards, A12


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Have a good day A12.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Hank -
> 
> But if I "unfriended" him (weeks ago), isn't that the same as blocking? I need some way to block from my timeline any posts that show up from mutual friends "liking" something on his page. I find it to be kind of hilarious he is using that 2004 picture as his profile picture - LOL! The same one he used on his online dating profile when we first met -- that's nearly 10 years ago, for any lady friend he's hoping to attract via FB  Not exactly current. Whatever! Good luck to him, I never want to see him again.
> 
> Best,- A12


P.S. Not gonna do it, but I feel like telling him, "Hey, that's a pretty dated (2004) FB profile pic you've got there. I have tons of better, more recent pics of you, if you ever need them for a future online dating profile -- just let me know I'll send them to you" Ha!!!


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sass is your friend, A12.  Hang in there, sweetie. Thinking of you today! ((hugs))


----------



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> But if I "unfriended" him (weeks ago), isn't that the same as blocking?


Nope. Not at all... When AXW unfriended me, while her posts didn't start showing up on my page, I could actually see more on her FB page, than when she was still friends...



Awakening2012 said:


> I need some way to block from my timeline any posts that show up from mutual friends "liking" something on his page.


Blocking him might be the only way to do it...


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> Nope. Not at all... When AXW unfriended me, while her posts didn't start showing up on my page, I could actually see more on her FB page, than when she was still friends...
> 
> 
> 
> Blocking him might be the only way to do it...


Thanks, PB -

OK, I'll look into it, and ask some younger tech-savvier friends  I guess it is normal when the D is final (or even before!) to 
have this feeling of wanting to erase them from your life?

Best,- A12


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Best of luck today. Be strong.


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

I am thinking of you today, A12. You have a wonderful future ahead, I know it.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - stay strong today and remember you are an extraordinary person.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Tron said:


> Best of luck today. Be strong.


Thanks, Tron! Hey, how are you liking CrossFit? I'm nursing a strained trapezius muscle at the moment (hmmm, was it the high volume push press or pull-ups - LOL!), but expect to be back in action soon!


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Thinking of you today A12
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Thinking of you A12.Stay strong and take care of yourself.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

So FWIW, here is the exchange that just took place:

From me:

Hi [His Ex-H name] -

So is it done, are we divorced? How did it go and how do you feel about it? Happy, relieved? Did you and Mike celebrate with Five Guys?

May I please receive a copy of the final decree for my records or should I plan on tracking this down with the court?

Thanks. Of course, I never hoped it would come to this, but respect your decision, and wish you well.

Your Ex-Wife, - [my name]

[His Name] 
I had trouble sleeping last night and woke up early today and just laid in bed feeling like it was all a bad dream. How did it get to this? It started off so well; I just feel like we both failed. There is enough blame on both sides.
The courthouse was very surreal. I was so sure that our marriage would be different. Sitting there with a room full of people trying to unwind their failed relationships.
No, i didn't celebrate. I felt like someone kicked me in the teeth. I went to work, tried to look not unhappy and came home and crawled back into bed.
I truly want you to be happy. I'm sorry you married a guy that did not have the coping mechanism to rom handle your addiction and the subsequent fallout. I wish i could have drawn boundary and been the strong man I thought i was. I wasn't. I crumbled under pressure and I will have to live with that the rest of my life. 
The divorce decree will be mailed out in the next couple of weeks. I will make sure :9you get one.f
[His name]

Me to Him:

Thanks for your candid reply, which breaks my heart. I feel the same way, wishing it could have been different -- never imagining it would turn out this way. So many fond memories. I loved you with all my heart and soul, and will forever regret how I failed you, myself and our marriage. You were so special to me, and brought me more happiness than I dreamed I would ever find. So it Is heart-breaking to lose that dream of a future together. I truly want you to be happy, too, and hope the divorce will bring you peace and closure. Please never forget the love we shared -- I will not. You deserve to be happy, and I wish you all the best.

With All Great Respect and Fondest Regards,

Your Ex-Wife, [my name]


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Jesus Christ. 

No words, K. Made me cry. 


BW


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Uggh...I'm sorry A12. Heartbreaking on this screen too. 

Onward to bigger and better days! :smthumbup:


And I'll let you know about my first real WOD tomorrow. 
So far it has all been severely scaled.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm sorry A12... It sucks it came to this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm so sorry A12. 

I have a personal belief that when we die, we are able to experience things we never thought we could experience. Not only do we see our lives again in front of us, but also the lives of many others, including our loved ones. I believe that one day you will see yourself through his eyes, and you will know how you were truly loved, how great you are and how things went the way they did for a reason. None of it can make sense now.. give yourself some time to process this.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Tron said:


> Uggh...I'm sorry A12. Heartbreaking on this screen too.
> 
> Onward to bigger and better days! :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


So excited you are taking the plunge and trying CrossFit! No problem scaling, you'll get a fantastic workout and find a new supportive community. I'd love to hear how it goes -- good luck!


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - so sorry this turned out this way for you. However, that last exchange truly shows the kind of person you are - classy, dignified, and smart. Really you have handled this with remarkable grace and I wish you the best in the future.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Really wish there were some words I could say to bring you some comfort A12,but I know that this is something you have to feel and not stuff away.I'm sorry this isn't the ending you wanted,but being the wise and realistic person you are,you know it won't always be so hard.Be with the ones who have always loved you for awhile if you can.I'll be praying for some peace in your heart.Take care.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Wow, A12. That exchange, out of everything I've seen on TAM, really broke my heart. I'm so sorry that it ended this way for you two. What strikes me reading his response is that he knows this is something he's going to have burdening his heart for the rest of his life. That's not meant in a Neener-neener kind of way. It's tragic. The choices that have been made to end marriages rather than doing the hard work needed -- and therefore, losing out on the rewards that work would have brought. 

I hope you're doing OK tonight. Keep reaching out to your friends here and IRL. We all care about you and think you're really something. ((hugs))


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, is this thread still open or has Miss A12 already jumped to Single Women or whatever the next step is on the Misery Blog Ladder....


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

BW -- She's got a new thread in LAD:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/74250-acceptance-letting-go-moving.html


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Hey, is this thread still open or has Miss A12 already jumped to Single Women or whatever the next step is on the Misery Blog Ladder....


Hi Bullwinkle and thanks, AP, for noting my new LAD thread, here is my theme video:

Another One Bites the Dust:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iOGgjKnTk

Not to worry, as a poor sod in the LAD section I'll check back with you poor sods in the GTDS aisle to see how you're fairing  

Best Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

I was going to ask, what the Hell does LAD stand for, but then figured it out. OK, will check on you there.

When my D is final, I'm going to set up a new category, HOMICIDAL BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER DIVORCE.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle -

LOL re: the new category! This may sound trite, because I know you love your anger, but have you ever heard that anger is hurt and sadness turned outward? Men, especially have more cultural permission to be angry than sad. But anger turned inward = depression, so maybe you're taking the healthier stance. Either way, take it out at the gym and you'll feel better  

Hmmmm, all the anger... IDK, could you be a "nice guy"? 

Cheers, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Good points, 12. I really don't know. I read the Nice Guy book and I guess I saw some of myself in it but I wasn't convinced I was the classic Nice Guy. I'm sure Frostine would laugh to think it could be me. I would let things bottle up sometimes but I'm always one to tell people the truth staright up. "Hey, I don't like men asking you out to ritzy restaurants - no, that doesn't make me insecure, it's a matter of respect". That kind of thing, you know?

But you are of course right about the gym.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Bullwinkle said:


> Agreed, 12. I tried to access WW's FB account a few weeks ago out of habit and realized she had defriended me. Foe some reason I found it very painful.
> 
> It's all so crazy, this social media B.S.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rocky-Bullwinkle/105845982788931


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> So excited you are taking the plunge and trying CrossFit! No problem scaling, you'll get a fantastic workout and find a new supportive community. I'd love to hear how it goes -- good luck!


Tell Foxy Moxy to do Crossfit


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey, LongWalk, Bullwinkle would always say, Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

Rocky the Flying Squirrel: But that trick NEVER Works, Bullwinkle.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks for that link -- I totally 'like'd the B&R page. :smthumbup: I considered it one of my missions as a parent to introduced my DS to them as soon as possible.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12, all this recent talk of Crossfit, and you're to blame, makes me want to crawl back into my LazyBoy with a glass of bourbon and a Marlboro. And what is this scaling stuff, are you climbing up this fake cliff things? Do they attach ropes to you like these window washer guys or not? That would be worth a trip to the gym, watching people fall off these cliffs.... AAAaaaaaagghhh..... Thud.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 

Hope you got a better night's sleep last night? CrossFit wpould be awesome for you. You are basically getting group personal training -- coached conditioning program of constantly varied functional movements done at high intentisty. And with loud heavy metal over the sound system. Perfect for your rage!

Scaling is adapting the exercises so people of any athletic level can do them. The workouts are degined for elite athletes, de-conditioned or older athletes often use scaling options, such as bands (of varying widths) wrapped at the top of the pull up bar and grabbed with your feet to give you an assist. Or on barbell lifts, just lowering the weight load. There are some excersises I'l probably never do -- muscle ups on the high rings, hand stand push ups -- but even for those there are substitute progressions that will mimic the same training benefit but at an easier level. CrossFit South Arlington or Trident CrossFit might be near you, and I think the Pentagon has a CrossFit club, too? They give discounts for military, law enforcement and fire fighters. And it is very kid-friendly -- lots of parents bring their kids with some toys to occupy them and they stay in a fenced off area where you can see them and they can see you while working out. Some gyms even have childcare during certain hours.

The only falling might be off the rope climbs that are sometimes in the workouts (it's a 35 foot celing where I go, so I was terrified of falling if I made it up, but can now get 5 consecutive climbs up/down before running out of gas  

Lots of camradery, builds strength, coordination, agility, endurance and confidence and releives stress! Most CF gyms have free walk-in trial claases at 12 noon on Satrudays -- check it out!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Bullwinkle & Rocky was the only cartoon worth a dámn when I was a kid. Can hear the voices in my mind.

You sound better BW. Thinking about A12 cross fit is healthy. There is a woman in my office who is very fit. One guy said: "when I think of M----, I think fertility goddess." Makes me want to go work just to look at her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Damn, 12, quite an endorsement! Alright, I will check it out. Beene swimming in the morning but I like the sound of hope the Crossfit stuff is so engaging.... Thanks! And even with the zlunesta I was up at three walking around, WTF.

LW, I hear you, amigo. Really food for thought.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Damn, 12, quite an endorsement! Alright, I will check it out. Beene swimming in the morning but I like the sound of hope the Crossfit stuff is so engaging.... Thanks! And even with the zlunesta I was up at three walking around, WTF.
> 
> LW, I hear you, amigo. Really food for thought.


Sorry the Lunesta is not doing the trick -- I hope you'll get back with your MD on some alternative. You cannot function on so little sleep, it is really bad for your mental and physical health, hon.

Besides CrossFit, as others suggested, I could also see you as a cage fighter in MMA! Throwing punches, dodging jabs -- what could be a better outlet? If not for the high risk of injury 

Have a great Friday!

Best, -A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

You might be onto something, 12, throwing some punches might do me good right now, if only on a heavy bag.

You have a great day too!


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi A12, hope everything is going well any new on D-Day. I guess mine is going to final any day now.... mixed feelings.... but generally in a happy place now.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

doureallycare2 said:


> Hi A12, hope everything is going well any new on D-Day. I guess mine is going to final any day now.... mixed feelings.... but generally in a happy place now.


Hi DYRC2 -

Thanks for checking in. Now that I am divorced, I strarted a new thread in the "Life After Divorce" (LAD) section of TAM at: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/74250-acceptance-letting-go-moving.html

Coming up on your divocre being final is I realize a bag of mixed emotions, so do check in and let us know how you are doing. Sending courage and strenght!

Hugs, -A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, DYRC, where you been? 

A12, I like the name of your new thread. When I get to LAD, I'm going to name mine, "Shoulda Choked Her".


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh snap,

I didn't know you moved over.

I only had one buddy over there Chucky... Now I have two.

I'll keep a look out and keep tabs on you guys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks Group, BW, DYRC - 

Wishing the best for all of you, too, and should the winds of fate find you on "the other side" (Life After Divorce), we will be there to welcome you -- there's some good peeps in that section, with helpful support for transitioning to your glorious future :circle:

I cannot tell you "come on in, the water's fine," for those of us who are new over there, and had hoped for a different outcome -- but the support is there to help with moving on and rebuilding.

DYRC2 What's the status of your D? Any update? Hope you are well.

Warmly, - A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

A12, no, don't leave us!

Quick, get married again so you can rejoin us sorry sacks of SHYT.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> A12, no, don't leave us!
> 
> Quick, get married again so you can rejoin us sorry sacks of SHYT.


LOL, right -- I'm more that slightly skeptical of what would be the point of ever getting married again. But Chucky swears if he had a dime for everyone who said that and tied the knot again with a new love, he could retire in Boca Raton  I can't now see finding anything close to what I had with my Ex before I f'd it up -- but time will tell. I still have some shelf life left in me, or so I'm told 

Best, A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Some shelf life, I like that. I've heard it a thousands times too and it's almost always the people who swear they'll never married again are the ones who get married the quickest.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Hi, DYRC, where you been?
> 
> A12, I like the name of your new thread. When I get to LAD, I'm going to name mine, "Shoulda Choked Her".


ROFL..... I'll name mine "Should have: Gone all Lorena Bobbitt on him years ago". 

BW, just been really busy, not getting on computer much.. still not finding a lot of time. Have to start fixing up my house for the realitor...


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> LOL, right -- I'm more that slightly skeptical of what would be the point of ever getting married again. But Chucky swears if he had a dime for everyone who said that and tied the knot again with a new love, he could retire in Boca Raton  I can't now see finding anything close to what I had with my Ex before I f'd it up -- but time will tell. I still have some shelf life left in me, or so I'm told
> 
> Best, A12


Ummm yeh... your younger then I am, in better shape Im sure and Im getting hit on left and right, Im sure you are also.. I also am not interested but it does let me see that there is life after D. I had a guy hit on me at the grosc. store the other night.. we really had fun at work with that one!! It was hystarical.. You will find someone that you will have an even stronger love for than your x... and you know what... he stay with you!!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> Some shelf life, I like that. I've heard it a thousands times too and it's almost always the people who swear they'll never married again are the ones who get married the quickest.


Hi Bullwinkle -

LOL! Yeah, maybe when I'm 80 and raising he11 on my rascal scooter, I'll get hitched to some old coot  

Might get me a boyfriend eventually (I mean, I hope I am not going to be celibate the rest of my life!), but husband -- hard to envision any reason for marriage. I have a neighbor who is a gorgeous Polish rocket scientist in her 50s and she complains that her problem with trying to have a boyfriend is they always want to get married (and she doesn't) so she has to dump them.  I thought it was the women that want marriage more than men, but not according to her experience, so who knows? :scratchhead:

Kind Regards,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yeah.... who knows... I hear both sides, somebody always wants to get married, somebody doesn't. 

I recall Frostine telling me when I met her how she never wanted to get married again. And she's probably telling people that again now in the soon-to-be Post Bullwinkle Era.

Time will tell all. Any word or sightings of X?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> I recall Frostine telling me when I met her how she never wanted to get married again.


So did Frostine have a previous marriage before yours -- or was she saying when the two of you get married she would not want to ever re-marry anyone else should you split?

[/QUOTE]Any word or sightings of X?[/QUOTE]

No, thank God! I am scared to go anywhere near the Pentagon City shopping mall, because he lives in one of those apartment complexes near there. It's been great for my wallet  I also dread running into his mother (Ex-MIL), who lives in a rental building practically across the street from me. Now that it is summer, unless I stay away from the immediate area or indoors, it will be hard to avoid her in the evenings when lots of people sit out on the plaza in front of the library, and attend evening concerts on Thursdays. It's not like there is animousity, but it is uncomfortable -- I should not care what she thinks, but can't help imagining in my head that she considers me the woman who ruined her son's life. Or that she pities me. Ugh!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Yes, both pity for you or that you ruined her son's life, both bitter pills to swallow. BTW, that's where the Awful Studio is, in one of those apartment buildings close to the Pentagon City mall - I wonder if I'd seen your H out and about. I hope you don't run into ex MIL, thart would be painful.....

Yes, Frostine had had a previous marriage in her 20s, only lasted 2 years, he was an immigrant and spoke little English and couldn't find a job that paid anything, she started going out evenings with her friends..... you know the rest of the story.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bullwinkle - 



> BTW, that's where the Awful Studio is, in one of those apartment buildings close to the Pentagon City mall - I wonder if I'd seen your H out and about.


LOL, probably in the same building -- ugh!!!!!!!!



> I hope you don't run into ex MIL, that would be painful.....


I did run into her once on the street, on my way to the nearby post office. I just said hello, and so did she and I kept walking. She is a decent polite person and had always been kind to me, so I'm sure she would have engaged in pleasantries had I lingered. But I dread running into her, it just feels awkard, especially now that I'm her Ex-DIL. 



> Yes, Frostine had had a previous marriage in her 20s, only lasted 2 years, he was an immigrant and spoke little English and couldn't find a job that paid anything, she started going out evenings with her friends..... you know the rest of the story.[/


Possibly, but not sure you can draw a direct comparison there --she was in her 20's and plus you're a whole different class of guy besides having a child together. 

But I have wondered if some people have certain maximum time limits on how long they can stay in a relationship. Because my X and I were together 7 years, and in his previous relationship (they never married, I was his first wife) they were together 7 years. Just speculation, but he might have a 7 year limit  Should have come with a warranty and expiration date - LOL!!!

Best,- A12


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Maybe you and your X can get together for a drink, chat about you.... LOL. 

Maybe you're right, maybe some people are geared to an internal clock with a time limit. Frostine has never had a relationship that lasted real long. She was married to her X for a little over two years, lived with another guy for about 4 years, they broke up about six months before I met her. I also think her childhood where her mother was a single mom and had a series of terrible relationships... at the end of the day, Frostine thinks you reach a point in a marriage or relationship and then you simply walk away.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

I meant to say, your X and I (jokingly)


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Washington DC, built with other people's money. You guys make it sound real but not enticing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

It is actually a great place to live and work. It's not nearly as seedy as BW and I make it sound - LOL! This town runs on money that's for sure -- mostly corporate, not tax payer, money.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

LongWalk, it's a great town, I love it, the only thing I don't like are the awful summers. It will never be London or Paris but it is an intriguing place.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Oy - The summers in DC are horrendous. I spent mine poolside. 

I think the "7 year itch" must have some sort of biological basis. It's far too common, it seems.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Agreed, Strong. I remember some study I read in college wherein the seven year itch was documented as statistically real.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Wow, so you guys think there may be something to the "seven year itch" thing? Does that hold true just for (certain) men or for women, too -- or is it just that relationships in general have a statistically significnant chance of imploding at year seven? 

I find this phenomenon most interesting, if true... Another of life's imponderables.

Cheers, - A12


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Wow, so you guys think there may be something to the "seven year itch" thing? Does that hold true just for (certain) men or for women, too -- or is it just that relationships in general have a statistically significnant chance of imploding at year seven?
> 
> I find this phenomenon most interesting, if true... Another of life's imponderables.
> 
> Cheers, - A12


Once a mosquito bites the itching starts. Gets worse if you scratch.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm now at the f***ing ER which is SO now how I wanted to spend my Sunday afternoon! I woke up with a swollen left arm and hand and went to my massage therapy appointment at noon. She told me I need to go to urgent care to rule out so something serious. I have a tiny abrasion on my left wrist that has not healed in 2 weeks, so it may be infected, and causing the problem. So urgent care assessed me and sent me to the ER for labs and imaging. Typical ER takes hours to be seen. UGH! I hope it's something easily treated and cured!


----------



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> I'm now at the f***ing ER which is SO now how I wanted to spend my Sunday afternoon! I woke up with a swollen left arm and hand and went to my massage therapy appointment at noon... ...I have a tiny abrasion on my left wrist that has not healed in 2 weeks, so it may be infected, and causing the problem.


Red... swollen... painful to move... a cut or scrape that hasn't healed as soon as it should have?

Yeah, likely infected. It sounds a lot like the time I got bit by a cat... I got bit on the middle knuckle of my hand. Had it cleaned out and dressed up, and it still got infected. My whole hand was red and swollen, and it ached just to move my fingers.

Had to drain out the wound, re-clean it, and suck down a week's worth of antibiotics. Within a day my hand was back to normal, and the bite was healing like it should.

Good Luck!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, Pbar, for the reassuring words that it is most likely a very treatable infection. Better not be MRSA!!!
I might be paranoid because I work for a medical professional society, and one of their big concerns is anti-microbial resistance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thank you, Pbar, for the reassuring words that it is most likely a very treatable infection. Better not be MRSA!!!
> I might be paranoid because I work for a medical professional society, and one of their big concerns is anti-microbial resistance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A12, I hope that you have found out by now that everything is ok, and nothing major? I have a question about MRSA. I always thought that it really want a big deal unless you are elderly or very ill? I'm only asking because my stbxh has it. When he was in the hospital a few years ago for his congestive heart failure they isolated him and we had to wear mask and gloves. They did not act like it was any threat to him but wanted us to keep from spreading it to other patient's. Now I wonder if he should have told his school administration. I know the schools are always disinfecting because of it.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Oh, God, still sitting in ER for 2 hours now, waiting to be seen. A kid just came in and vomitted massively in the foyer. Now it reeks of puke and stuck here with a bunch of sick people. Sorry, just griping out of boredom. Could be worse, I know. Can't wait to get out of this place!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Wishing for a speedy recovery A
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Be well A12. Lots of love from NYC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

DYRC - If your STBXH had a MRSA infection, but lived to tell and was released from the hospital, then it means his body was able to clear the infection with whatever potent ****tail of anti-biotics they gave him. MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)
doesn't remain infectious once treated.

Still waiting -- over 2 hours now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> DYRC - If your STBXH had a MRSA infection, but lived to tell and was released from the hospital, then it means his body was able to clear the infection with whatever potent ****tail of anti-biotics they gave him. MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)
> doesn't remain infectious once treated.
> 
> Still waiting -- over 2 hours now...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck A12. Hope they have something that will clear it up.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

A12...... dont you know not to get hurt on the weekend...? just kidding, feeling your pain.....ugh! My husband didnt have an infection this time they said it was on his hospital records from a spider bite a few years before that. Thats what I didnt understand. why gown us when the infection was years ago?


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Just shoot me, they sent an admin person over to me to complete my registration and they asked the dreaded question (who is your emergency contact?). It triggered me so bad I started crying (how humiliating!). Because the answer is no one, I don't have anyone. I don't have any family around here, what am I supposed to do in these situations, plan ahead with a friend or neighbor to ask if I can list them as my contact? Now I'm all weepy -- ugh :-( 

They are ordering tests now and want to check for infection but also rule out a blood clot. Thanks for all the kind wishes and moral support!


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Even if you planned ahead that would have still been a hard moment..... your hurt.. your in pain and the person you should be able to count on being there isnt anymore,,,, go ahead and cry... wish I was there to hug you!!


----------



## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Hugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks so much, guys! Not my best day, but at least I'm being seen now.They took bloid and I'm now waiting for ultra-sound. Never thought Id be posting to TAM from the ER. When Bullwinkle went to the ER, he had at least the dignity to wait until the next day ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Thanks so much, guys! Not my best day, but at least I'm being seen now.They took bloid and I'm now waiting for ultra-sound. Never thought Id be posting to TAM from the ER. When Bullwinkle went to the ER, he had at least the dignity to wait until the next day ;-)


He didn't exactly have a choice, now did he? Couldn't even remember how he got there!

Oh... and if they give you an IV, don't forget to send us a picture of it!


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Well hopefully you are all right. Going to the ER is always a terrible experience. 

Why not put down somebody from afar if you don't have somebody local right now?

Here's hoping tomorrow is a better day for you.


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi,K, I'm sorry for all you've been through today, I've been incommunicado for reasons I'll bore you with later. 

Hope you're okay. 

Bullwinkle


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

In the home stretch now just waiting on ultra sound results and hopefully a treatment plan and discharge. Going on 8:30pm now -- poor cats must be hungry! Praying I'll be outta here soon, and on the mend!


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Hugs A12, just thinking of the ER makes me shudder. 
Friends? All just a type away! 
Hope all is well, peace


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Oh, God. Ultra sound showed blot clots and


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh my hope they keep you in ER and take care of it. Thank goodness you went to get it checked out. Hoping for the best.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Oh, God. Ultra sound showed blot clots and


Any news?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

doureallycare2 said:


> Any news?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hospitalized over night and seeing the hematologist today -- hoping to be discharged with blood thinner meds to get rid of clots and swelling. Will
keep you posted. Thanks for your kindness!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

So sorry to see this.Hope everything is going to be okay.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

My super sweet AA sponsor came by the hospital early this morning for a surprise visit, which really lifted my spirits, and helped me feel less alone and vulnerable  Bless her heart, she brought me a cellphone charger and moved my car to avoid a ticket. She's going to check on on me later. She also advised calling a family member, though they live far away, to at least let them know what's going on with me. I spoke to my brother and he was super supportive, too, which helped. Got my cats covered by a neighbor, and work boss was super-understanding,

Looks like it could be an all day waiting around for tests and a procedure. Hope to get discharged by the end of the day!!! Thanks for being there!

Best, A12


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Get Well Soon!

Thoughts and Prayers!


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Get Well Soon!
> 
> Thoughts and Prayers!


Same here.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> My super sweet AA sponsor came by the hospital early this morning for a surprise visit, which really lifted my spirits, and helped me feel less alone and vulnerable  Bless her heart, she brought me a cellphone charger and moved my car to avoid a ticket. She's going to check on on me later. She also advised calling a family member, though they live far away, to at least let them know what's going on with me. I spoke to my brother and he was super supportive, too, which helped. Got my cats covered by a neighbor, and work boss was super-understanding,
> 
> Looks like it could be an all day waiting around for tests and a procedure. Hope to get discharged by the end of the day!!! Thanks for being there!
> 
> Best, A12


Aww.. A12, Im so glad someone showed up for you... here I am alone now and I wouldn’t even think of that type of stuff needing to be done for a single person just admitted. I think I will have a backup plan now just in case I ever have to go in... I’m so sorry that you had to go through all this and I know that you’re probably feeling all kinds of emotions.. Hopefully the hospital has done a great job with you and your out by now...


----------



## Canardo (Mar 23, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear this, A12! You sound like you're in great spirits. Sending prayers, flowers, and a get well card your way!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All -

Thanks so much for the well wishes! Spent last night in ICU, and waiting on more follow-up diagnostics, but now told I'll likely be here 'til Friday (!!!!!!). I have good support around me, and hopefully will soon be on the mend. Can't wait to get outta here!


Cheers, A12


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Prayers and good wishes coming your way A12...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi All -
> 
> Thanks so much for the well wishes! Spent last night in ICU, and waiting on more follow-up diagnostics, but now told I'll likely be here 'til Friday (!!!!!!). I have good support around me, and hopefully will soon be on the mend. Can't wait to get outta here!


Friday??? Wow! Sounds serious. Get well soon!


----------



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Awakening2012 said:


> Spent last night in ICU, and waiting on more follow-up diagnostics, but now told I'll likely be here 'til Friday (!!!!!!).


ICU? Friday? 

Seriously? Did they tell you why?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi All -
> 
> Thanks so much for the well wishes! Spent last night in ICU, and waiting on more follow-up diagnostics, but now told I'll likely be here 'til Friday (!!!!!!). I have good support around me, and hopefully will soon be on the mend. Can't wait to get outta here!
> 
> ...


Thinking of you and praying for you K. I know you've got to be worried,but I'm glad you've got some good support.Hoping everything will turn out alright and to hear more positive news soon.


----------



## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

ugh A12!!! Because of the blood clots? I hope your ok? keep notes of everything! Have you had a visitors? I wish I lived close by, Im one of those people that "love" visiting friends in the hospital, NOT! however I do make a lot of hospital visits because I know how crappy and bored it feels to be in one for any periode of time. Thinking of you A12!! get well ok..?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Any news A12? How are you doing?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Get well!


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi All -

Thanks for your kind support! Feeling much better and hoping for discharge Friday or Sat. It is kind of surreal to randomly get this thing ("thoracic outlet syndrome"), but check out the list of notable people who've had it, including Boston Bruins player Adam McQuaid. Makes me feel slightly better - LOL! 

Best, A12

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracic_Outlet_Syndrome


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Can't sleep...ugh!


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Glad you're feeling better, 12. And I hope you're sleeping even as I write this.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Heard you were getting out today. Good deal.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Tron - 

Yes! I am home from the hospital -- whew! I went to acute care Sunday in my sweats and flip flops, never expecting to land in the hospital, much less the ICU. Had I known I would have dressed more respectably, and at least worn make up - LOL! Glad to be out of those dreadful hospital gowns and resting comfortably at home. 

What I did not confess to TAM, and will do so now, is that among my visitors was my ex-husband (!!!). Weird, I know -- we are divorced for just over a week now, but word got to him and he texted me and asked if he could stop by, was there anything I needed, etc. I had mixed feelings about seeing him, but if the situation were reversed I would have done the same. We still care for each other, despite everything. He brought red licorice ( my fave) and some magazines, and stayed for about an hour and a half -- I thought he'd never leave, LOL! I do hope one day we can be friends, though it is way too soon for that now. It is just nice to know we would still be there for each other in an emergency, so I'll take that at face value.

Thanks again for all the kind wishes!

Cheers, - A12


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

So glad to hear you are home, and it's nice to hear that ex came to visit, decency when it's required is a positive thing 

Hope your recovery is speedy, and things go well from now on. 
God bless.


----------



## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you, Deej!


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi, A12 -- just got caught up with what's been happening to you. Oh my goodness, how terrifying for you!! I'm so glad you're back home and that you're feeling better. I hope you continue to do better each day! And I'm glad your ex had enough humanity to visit and show caring to you. 

Take care of yourself and don't do too much too soon! ((hugs))


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

A12 - only on TAM can you not check a thread for a few days and someone's in a life-threatening emergency! I usually expect BW though...

Hope you are doing much better and glad you're OK!


----------



## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

Same here... hope you get better really fast A12. *hugs


----------



## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

We love you, 12. Hang tough.


----------



## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

More hugs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

