# Verbally Abusive or Discipline?



## Cogo123

I have two boys 10 and 18. 
My husband seems to pick on my youngest more now that my oldest is working and has a job and HF.
Yesterday he told my son if he doesn't finish his dinner he gets no snacks ever again. He used to say no snacks for the night but my son would always say OK then ask later in the evening. The answer was no of course. So last night my son said ok to no snacks ever. Knowing full well he couldn't stick to that punishment his Dad agreed. His punishments are a little extreme. If dad is in a bad mood from work he will verbally yell at him or hits him lightly upside the head. He never spends time with any of the boys. He tells me I am too nice to the boys. No I am just the voice of reason. My youngest has comes to me crying saying he cannot deal with his dad any longer and he wants me to leave him. Any suggestions? My son is seeing the social worker at school but he hasn't brought this up because he doesn't want to cry.
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## anotherguy

OK, I'm going to try and not read too much into what you said - because it does not look very good to me. BUT.

I think you should have a talk with the hubby and formulate a discipline strategy ahead of time that can be at the ready when needed. Then he will not be in a position of reacting on the spot - since he obviously cant think clearly or rationally when pressed to do something. I also dont think biffing the 10 year old upside the head is necessary - there clearly are better ways to react to bad behavior than yelling and whacking. If your husband is unable to control his frustration or reactions in those types of situations - you need to find a way to define the rules ahead of time and try and remove that variable from the equation. He may welcome it as a chance to clarify the rules too if you are 'too nice' - and even to articulate the rules to the 10 years old so that he will know what to expect.

If your son is seeing the social worker - thats a good thing. I assume your hubby knows this as well.

I have zero tolerance for hitting kids - that, IMHO needs to be aired out. You should establish that it is unacceptible and that you need to find other ways to deal with it. And it isnt about inflicting pain... 'lightly hitting him upside the head' communicates to the child about how conflict is resolved and those are not the types of lessons you want to inject.


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## Hope1964

If I had a husband who was hitting my kids, yelling at them, and never spending any time with them, I would leave him. That is not the kind of person I could have any respect for, let alone live in the same house as.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Ugh. Yah, that's a problem. You don't have to discipline kids by yelling at them and hitting them. That makes you (or in this case, your H) the discipline problem. Dad clearly has no authentic power. His kids don't see any reason to look up to him. He has no power but threats. And fairly useless unenforceable ones at that. 

I recommend you read: Children, The Challenge which is by Rudolph Dreikurs. It talks about natural consequences. 

As for your H, I'm not sure.

For your son, I think next time he gets 'disciplined' like that, you get in your car that is pre-packed with overnight things and leave. But, be sure to tell your H that this will be a consequence of him making threats, hitting and yelling. That you respect his right to parent in his own way, but that as a parent yourself, you also respect your right to parent in your own way, and that means giving your son a reason to look up to you and to admire you and overall, to TRUST you.


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## Cogo123

Anotherguy: I agree with your thinking that I should talk to him about how we discipline my son. I have dne just that. Problem is he thinks that is the only way he will listen. Not true....he needs to step back and realize he isn't always right and needs to look at other ways of getting thru to him. Violence or raising your voice is not the answer. Its just difficult when he thinks he is right all the time.
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## Cogo123

Hope1964:
It is so nice to hear that everyone thinks he is wrong for doing what he doing to our son. 
I hate bringing this up and starting all kinds of turmoil but he has to be stopped. My son doesn't deserve to be a nervous wreck around his dad. His dad stares at him while he is eating and picks on him for the little things he is doing wrong. He just cannot relax which makes me glad during the week we eat without him since he works until 8PM.
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## Dday and Mam

Bring your boy to a private counselor. He needs an adult that can help him learn coping strategies. Sending the boy to speak with the school social worker is not a great idea. A social worker is not a counselor, and are not heavily trained in this area, either. Sure, they take some psychology courses, but certainly not enough to treat your son. Also, the sessions are not protected health information under HIPPA federal laws. Bring him to a licensed psychologist, as you will not regret the move.


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## accept

Why is your H so obsessed with him. Not finishing dinner isnt the biggest crime. Has your H a wide circle of friends. I think you have to somehow create for you H other outlets.


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## Cooper

I'm going to say your husband is a bully, he is bullying the younger son because he knows he can get away with it and because he doesn't have the skills to parent any other way. That dynamic just becomes a habit for them, it can and needs to be changed. I'm not sure how receptive your husband would be but I think he needs to start by reading books on parenting, maybe even attending parenting classes and seeing a counselor. I would have your son see a counselor also, or even a life coach that works with young children. 

Do you stand up for your son? I wouldn't start a fight with your husband in front of the boy, but when he spews out some ridiculous garbage like "do this NOW or you'll never EVER have this" send the boy out of the room and then confront your husband and ask him if he realizes how unrealistic it is to speak that way. And the hitting has to stop.


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## Cogo123

Accept: yes my husband has an online video game addiction.
He plays excessively on the weekends. He knows what he is saying is wrong and hurtful but doesn't think before he speaks. Then later when he cools down he thinks about apologizing. Too late at thathpoint!

Cooper:
I think you are correct. My husband does not understand what it means to be a father to his son. He helps very little with his homework and I sign him up for everything extracurricular. He attends none of the practices and when my oldest son, who is now 18 played football he went to none of his games.
I was the one who attended every practice and game. His excuse was he worked too late. That was a lame excuse. He would have missed 20 min of his games! 
I confront him about my youngest son and tell him he needs to control himself and he lashes out at me and says he needs descipline. He doesn't get that he is hurting him emotionally. That is why I was thinking of moving on so that maybe he would appreciate him more if he was not around so much.
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## accept

An online gaming addiction is not an outlet. Considering his time is being 'spent' it would be very hard to create a real outlet. You must both have some family. That seems to be the only thing.
I would also tell your son that his father has a problem and he should do his best to keep away and not antagonise him.


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## help305

I have a ADHD child and he was out of control while young, I had him on medication which he lost 10lbs. my husband said no more medicine, and started dicipline he would correct and not let anything slide, as he got better and better. Now my son is an Air Man and has very good morals. I couldn't ask for a better son.


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## sculley

Honestly you need to have a talk with him ASAP...I wasn't at home one night and something happened without my knowledge. I was blindsided the next day with CPS and since I wasn't there when it happened and knew nothing of it I was able to take my boys..... Do it soon because if they find out you knew about it it could take forever to get your kid back... Just my two cents


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## sculley

help305 said:


> I have a ADHD child and he was out of control while young, I had him on medication which he lost 10lbs. my husband said no more medicine, and started dicipline he would correct and not let anything slide, as he got better and better. Now my son is an Air Man and has very good morals. I couldn't ask for a better son.


You got lucky because my husband discplined our child and it turned bad because some states will not put up with Corpal punishment period for children with ADHD and other special needs.


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## sculley

Cogo123 said:


> Accept: yes my husband has an online video game addiction.
> He plays excessively on the weekends. He knows what he is saying is wrong and hurtful but doesn't think before he speaks. Then later when he cools down he thinks about apologizing. Too late at thathpoint!
> 
> Cooper:
> I think you are correct. My husband does not understand what it means to be a father to his son. He helps very little with his homework and I sign him up for everything extracurricular. He attends none of the practices and when my oldest son, who is now 18 played football he went to none of his games.
> I was the one who attended every practice and game. His excuse was he worked too late. That was a lame excuse. He would have missed 20 min of his games!
> I confront him about my youngest son and tell him he needs to control himself and he lashes out at me and says he needs descipline. He doesn't get that he is hurting him emotionally. That is why I was thinking of moving on so that maybe he would appreciate him more if he was not around so much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sounds like it will take your husband going through what mine did a year ago to get it in his head. He was raised getting spankings (that left marks) he never realized or understood the damage he did until he was told by a third party. If you cant reach him by talking to him (I had the same talk to my husband a month before our CPS thing happened and he told me the same thing) Presently things are great and nothing happened to the hubby except for him knowing how to parent the right way now because they make you go through parenting classes.


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## wiigirl

Hope1964 said:


> If I had a husband who was hitting my kids, yelling at them, and never spending any time with them, I would leave him. That is not the kind of person I could have any respect for, let alone live in the same house as.


This AND counseling for EVERYONE!


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## Gaia

If my H ever bapped any of our kids upside the head... I'd turn around and whack him upside his head then tell him to get the eff out..... I wouldn't tolerate THAT crap! Am so glad my H isn't like that...


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## Cogo123

It is really sad because I know what he is doing to my son isn't healthy for him. As time has progressed I have started askig him questions after he does something stupid like "did your mom or dad treat you that way growing up?" I know the answer is no. He just looks at me almost like I am being over protective and kindve laughs it off. I have to make a decision but why is it so hard for me to do so?
Its almost like I want something like a CPS situation to happen because I am not sure he will truly everbthink he is wrong until someone of authority shows him the err of his ways.
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## Gaia

Cogo... as the wife and mother... you have plenty of authority to show him the err of his ways. Is he abusive toward you?


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## Cogo123

Abusive is a harsh word.....he doesn't pay the kind of attention to our relatonship he needs to. He is getting better but not where he. Should be. He is very controlling. He gets upset if I tell him something he doesn't to hear & he pouts like a 2 yr old. Hard worker @ work.
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## Gaia

Have you considered counseling for the both of you? Or rather... all of you? Family counseling, marriage counseling and perhaps individual counseling?


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## Cogo123

I went to couseling by myself to learn what I could do to help the situation. I only wet for about 4 sessions and the I told him about since he was curious where I was for an hr once a week. He told me I didn't counseling. That was a waste of $. I felt belittled and I was hurt. I stopped going because it started to cost too much $.
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## Gaia

A few here have recommended trying at universities as counseling can be provided there for little to no cost if your interested.


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## Cogo123

Good idea.....thank you
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## Gaia

yqw


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## EleGirl

If your son routinely does not finish dinner, give him smaller portions. He can always get seconds.


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## rj700

How was he with discipline for your older boy? Same, less intense? Hitting & yelling too?


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## Cogo123

He was the same. Maybe a little worse with him. He didn't know how to control him since he was a kid and they can be challenging to raise. My oldest is now 18. He is very nervous. He always looks to please his Dad and can't seem to relax. He doesn't know how to cope with difficult situations. Not sure if that's because of him or just his personality.
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## Hope1964

That's because of your husband. Your husband is abusive, physically and emotionally.

Why are you putting up with it?


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## costa200

help305 said:


> I have a ADHD child and he was out of control while young, I had him on medication which he lost 10lbs. my husband said no more medicine, and started dicipline he would correct and not let anything slide, as he got better and better. Now my son is an Air Man and has very good morals. I couldn't ask for a better son.


That's because ADHD is the most misdiagnosed child disease. There are almost no real cases of ADHD and those that do exist are extreme. I'm pretty sure my parents would never raise a child with fake ADHD. Neither would I. In fact, as a teacher i've had some of those fake ADHD in class and as soon as they understand what rolls in my classroom they are healed while inside my classroom. They resume their ADHD in other classes and at home. What does that mean?


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## sculley

costa200 said:


> That's because ADHD is the most misdiagnosed child disease. There are almost no real cases of ADHD and those that do exist are extreme. I'm pretty sure my parents would never raise a child with fake ADHD. Neither would I. In fact, as a teacher i've had some of those fake ADHD in class and as soon as they understand what rolls in my classroom they are healed while inside my classroom. They resume their ADHD in other classes and at home. What does that mean?


I'm curious, you say your a teacher and I respect that however how much training and education do you have in special needs and mental health? I just think your accusations of "fake adhd" is alittle harsh. Unless you have a child with those struggles I really feel like you do not fully understand. I have been dealing with my son's teacher who sends home reports of all the "bad stuff" hes done and if she had ANY education on it it's classic symptoms and signs of autism/adhd.... Such a shame how quickly some people can judge honestly. smh


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## FirstYearDown

My mother was verbally and physically abusive to her four children.
I grew up being sworn at and called terrible names, along with brutal beatings.

Three out of four of us moved out at young ages. Two of us have needed therapy and one of us refuses to speak to my mother at all. Now that La Maman is retired, she has a lot of time to think about her grave parental mistakes and drown in regrets. She's very lucky that none of us called CAS (Canadian child services) on her because she would have lost her children and gone to jail. 

Tell your husband that unless he wants to feel guilty forever, he needs to change his parenting style.


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## costa200

sculley said:


> I'm curious, you say your a teacher and I respect that however how much training and education do you have in special needs and mental health? I just think your accusations of "fake adhd" is alittle harsh. Unless you have a child with those struggles I really feel like you do not fully understand. I have been dealing with my son's teacher who sends home reports of all the "bad stuff" hes done and if she had ANY education on it it's classic symptoms and signs of autism/adhd.... Such a shame how quickly some people can judge honestly. smh


I didn't say that ADHD didn't exist. What i said was that is was a hip disease these days and that they label virtually every kids who is active above average as having ADHD and they resort to medicating them. This is wrong and has to stop.

The experience i have in dealing with these cases is having several diagnosed ADHD kids in a class every year and having them being all asymptomatic on me for the duration of the class. If your kid really has ADHD you know this doesn't happen. True ADHD cases don't turn it off for a teacher. What i see is poorly educated kids that stop their behaviors with me because i have them figured out. You know this doesn't happen with true ADHD don't you? You must because your kid has it.

Of my years of teaching i've met one real case of ADHD. It was notorious and i learned a lot from that kid. I worked with him every day, helping him and seeing him struggle with the simplest things due to his condition. I grown fond of the little ****** and he liked me a lot too. His parents were excellent parents.

It ANNOYS the hell out of me that there are people out there claiming their kids have ADHD when in reality what their kid's problem is that his parents didn't educate enough. I find it insulting for people with real ADHD. It hurts people with real ADHD because it brings discredit to the condition itself, and that i find extremely unfair. 

ADHD has become one of those "feel good" labels. 

"Don't worry, you don't suck as a parent, your kid has ADHD"

People with real conditions and/or parents of kids with ADHD should rise up against it. And i'll be damned if i trust some quack psychologist diagnosis. I see them more concerned about making the parents feel better and putting their kids on pills than with the welfare of the children. 

Some of these cases are borderline child abuse with official cover. I remember a case of these twins whose mother had trouble dealing with them (sweet kids, nothing wrong with them) and one day i was told they were taking Ritalin. It completely destroyed their personality and they were drowsy all the time. I had to talk to their mother about it and get them off that crap.

Then i learned that the guy who got them taking that never even tested for nothing. He took their mother's word that they had concentration problems and other stupid comments she made and pills it was...

So, whenever i'm getting a new class with supposedly ADHD kids i'm going to see for myself. I've researched on it extensively and i have first hand experience on it. The ratio of real ADHD to fake ADHD is at the moment some 1/25ish.

There is no other mental condition that i know of that has near that amount of BS diagnosis.


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## Cogo123

How do I get my husband to see that he is wrong? He is going to be very upset with me for bringing up the fact that his parenting skills could be the cause of our kids current behaviour? He will so upset with me if I brought it up to him. My youngest still has a chance if I can find a way to change him.
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## Cogo123

My husband's response to my comments about him being too harsh or mean are I have to teach them they canot get away with stuff. Your way, which is talking to him rationally, doesn't work so I have to make him listen.
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## costa200

Cogo123 said:


> My husband's response to my comments about him being too harsh or mean are I have to teach them they canot get away with stuff. Your way, which is talking to him rationally, doesn't work so I have to make him listen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is he right? Do kids get away with stuff with you? Please take note that if one parent is over permissive the other tends to over-compensate. You need to evaluate if your husband is right. 

And another thing, the relation between father and son is not the same as son and mother. You should not use your interactions as a point of comparison. He is the father, he is not mother number 2.

Parental relationships are not gender blind.


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## Cogo123

I do tend to feel sorry for them for having to deal with him.
It is a tough place to be when you do not want to see them hurt & you know he is being an idiot towards them. He does not allow them to be kids and acts like a sargeant in the army around them. No love is shown except for the fact he works to support them etc.
I do need to confront him and say I can be more demanding of them if you back off. We need to strike a good balance.
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## costa200

> I do tend to feel sorry for them for having to deal with him.


That's a mother's feeling alright. No problem there 



> It is a tough place to be when you do not want to see them hurt & you know he is being an idiot towards them.


Natural mother feeling, of course.



> He does not allow them to be kids and acts like a sargeant in the army around them.


He is making them into men in his way of seeing things. That's why he does it. If you had a daughter you would see something completely different coming from him. This is exactly why i said that parental relationships aren't gender neutral. 

Through this man's mind it is his job to tough them up. To make them into strong men, that won't break down and cry to mummy when their feelings are hurt (do you see something here?)



> No love is shown except for the fact he works to support them etc.


Can't begin to tell you how wrong you are on this point. The fact that he does all this is the utmost proof of fatherly love. All of this, after a day's work is more hard work. No love would be to ignore the kids. To sit drink a beer, not giving a damn about them.

I know this can be very hard to understand. But many types of men don't demonstrate their "love" with kisses and soft words. That's why there are mums.

In case you're wondering how can i feel like i can be in your husband's head, i'll tell you. Your description of him could be used for my father. He did the exactly same stuff to me and my brother. As a teen i sometimes hated the moments he was home. We couldn't get a moment of rest and relax, we could never let our guard down and it was damn hard.

Only years later could i finally realize what he was doing (basically when i started working and he let that façade down because he considered his "job done" and could show another side of him). And that's why your husband is laying it down for the younger one. The older kid should be in the pink already. The younger one still runs to mummy crying.

Did i like it at the time? No. What about now? Well, i feel very thankful to my father for making me into someone with steel spine and resilient to whatever hardships i can be forced to endure. 

Life isn't easy for a man. Nobody will make it easy because we are pretty or have overdeveloped emotional sides. Other men will walk all over you and your stuff if you can't hold your own. And women? Don't even get me started on that. Women (although they deny it frequently) hate weak men. 

Basically it boils down to what kind of men do you want your boys to be. Your dominating aggressive hubby is one type, the other is that kind of guy who you see running to chase his wife while she turns to him and says something like: 

"hurry up you toad! I'm late for my diner with [insert manly name here] and you need to get back and watch the kids, don't wait up for me!" 



> I do need to confront him and say I can be more demanding of them if you back off. We need to strike a good balance.


Yes, that's vital. Balance can come in all sorts of ways. You need to get your act together with your husband and try some sort of united front. Because, i'll assure you, your husband does mean well. You both have a common goal.


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## Cogo123

Thanks for the explanation and letting me see another side of the story. Sometimes it takes a disinterested third party to help you see things that are difficult to understand. I will try to step back and let him do his thing. I know that they always try and please him. Why can't he just sit back and enjoy them like I do? I guess that will come with time.
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## costa200

> I know that they always try and please him.


Yes, that's typical. It's really hard on the kids. They will complain for sure. But then they have mummy to listen to them.


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