# The "Talk" and other stuff



## EllisRedding

OK, so a bunch of stuff here. An incident occurred in my school district where a boy (13-14yr old I believe) took his life. I don't want to go into too much detail since not everything that happened has been made official (although it appears most people in the community know what happened). However, it appears this boy and another attended a party a few days prior, the girl there passed out drunk, one of the boys decided to jerk off on the girl while the other boy video taped it and in some manner made the video public (which made its way to the authorities, etc...). 

I ended up having a talk with my oldest son (9yrs old) since he had heard some of the details (although he had not heard about the sex act, just that the kid had his phone taken away, so he ran away). 

So curious for the folks here, at what age did you start talking to your kids about sex? I felt like I needed to give my son more details as there were other issues that needed to be discussed, but left if at the boy peed on her (I honestly don't feel unless absolutely necessary that sex needs to be discussed with a 9yr old).

As far as everything else, the conversation with my son revolved about boundaries (showing respect for others), knowing right from wrong (not doing something to look cool or b/c of peer pressure, if you see something that you know is wrong leave and find an adult, etc...), and social media use. 

The social media side I really had to hammer home with him since he does make comments on Youtube, as well as plays some of the other games which have a social community side to it. The moment you post anything online, text, etc... it is in the public for good, you cannot get it back. Likewise, if you are sent questionable material and share it, even though you may not have been involved in creating such material, you could very well be liable with some very serious ramifications.

You do have to wonder what was going through these boys' heads, did they have access to porn and that is where they got the idea from ....

What a great time to be raising children!


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## KillerClown

I hid and ran and left it to my wife to take care of it. My 15 year old son recently asked (briefly looking up from playing "Assassin's Creed") when he will be getting his period. I looked at my wife and walked out the room.


----------



## MrsAldi

Tragic Story but starting to become common unfortunately. 

I remember my parents being frank with me about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. They were excruciatingly honest about details that had happened to them! TMI, but it worked out when I was at Christmas party years ago and cocaine was produced, I was able to say no thank you without feeling bad. 


Peer pressure hasn't disappeared, probably a lot harder to say "no" these days being a teenager where "likes and hearts" count as validation. 

As for the sex education, schools offer a biology based end, this isn't helpful because it's forgets about feelings and impulses. 

Regarding the porn industry, should they be held accountable? 
How will they restrict access to adults only? 
How will young people know that this isn't a real representative of intimacy? 
Who should tell them parents or schools or government? 

I grew up in the early 2000s, I can't believe how much harder it is to be a teenager now. 
They have access to unlimited data and information but the young human brain still lacks the ability to see future consequences of actions, so maybe that's another thing to look at. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> I got the facts of life at about 6. I was too young. I was kind of freaked out for a long time.
> 
> *That said, I don't think you should tell your son that the girl in the video got pee'd on. That makes semen seem "dirty" in some way---that it has to be disguised as urine because it's so "bad". Does that make sense Ellis?*
> 
> There's nothing wrong with giving your kids *basic *biological facts. And, like I said, my mother massively overshared with me when I was very young.
> 
> Wow, at a party of 13/14 year olds, a girl passed out drunk? That almost seems like the major issue to me.:surprise:


Ya know, as to the bolded, I guess I should have used pooped instead of peed :smile2: Just kidding, I was trying to convey that a "dirty" act was actually done in that specific instance, but wasn't about to start going into the finer points of masturbating. I get what your saying, but I don't think it makes semen itself dirty as it is more the circumstance which is what I was trying to hammer home. Then again, this topic just kinda got thrust on my W and I a bit earlier then expected, so always a learning curve since he is our oldest.

In general, the whole thing was seriously ***ed up. The kid who took his life was the one who videotaped and shared (led to a big missing persons search until he was found). 

Agreed as well, there are a whole bunch of questions about the girl drinking, why were they unattended, etc...

What frustrated me, when this whole thing started (before the circumstances were known) the talk in the community was about suicide prevention (fair enough). Afterwards though, I didn't see anything about underage drinking, sexual abuse/misconduct, behavior on social media and consequences, etc... The topics that IMO are becoming a growing concern and probably impact more families just got brushed aside.


----------



## Bananapeel

I talked with my son the summer between 4th-5th grade, because I wanted to have the talk with him before he got it from health class in school. 

IMHO I wouldn't have told him "peed" either. I believe in parents always being open and honest with their kids, especially if they want to be able to expect it in return. What I do when I don't want to go into details is just tell my kids that they are too young for some details but I'll tell them in a few years if they ask me.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## EllisRedding

notmyrealname4 said:


> Yeah, you are in a weird place. I mean, having to get into the birds and the bees with your child, because this kid took his life, and the sordid details of the party, etc.
> 
> Just throwing this out there.
> 
> "Son, you came from mom and dad's bodies. Moms have an egg and grow babies in a special place near their tummies. Dad's have a seed that they put in mom with their penis. When you get older, you'll find out that it feels good to touch your penis. When it feels that good, the seed comes out all at once.
> 
> The boy at the party did a goofy thing by making his penis feel good and making the seed go all over a girl who was asleep.
> 
> He shouldn't have done that. Making your penis feel good is a private, special thing. And that girl didn't know what he was doing to her, so that was wrong".
> 
> 
> That probably sounds pretty dumb. But something *like* that can get the general idea across, without making sperm, the pleasant feelings of masturbating and sex in general seem like dreadful, sick, dirty things.
> 
> Then I guess on top of all this, you have to explain what suicide is, and why this boy committed suicide after doing this. I would hate for your poor kid to get the idea of sex and suicide somehow mixed up in his mind.
> 
> You have my sympathies, Ellis.


I just signed him up with a TAM account just so he can get the talk from your post :grin2:

Agreed though, there was definitely room for improvement in the talk. I guess my W and I will use our oldest as the guinea pig so hopefully by the time we have to talk to the two younger kids we will have the talk down "perfect". I also still want to keep an open dialogue with my oldest as other things have come up of late that my W and I need to explain our decision regarding. One of his friends who is a girl had invited him over for a sleepover and we have told him no. He is getting to the point where maybe a few years ago for him it would have been fine but we are now creeping into that gray area. At the time we just left it at we didn't know the parents well (which is very true as well, we are not going to have our son stay over at just anyone's house), but naturally in this instance the additional questions came up b/w my W and I (Where is he going to sleep, how will the parents be supervising, etc...)

The scary thing about the original situation, it appears my son thought this kid took his life solely b/c his phone was taken away!


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

That's so sad and it's a lot for a kid to handle. Suicide, underage drinking, lack of consent, misuse of social media, etc. I don't have kids so I'm not sure what age is appropriate and how detailed the talks should be. My parents told me ZIP. I learned everything from school & friends but I certainly don't think I'd take that same approach if I had kids.


----------



## EllisRedding

MrsAldi said:


> I remember my parents being frank with me about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. They were excruciatingly honest about details that had happened to them! TMI, but it worked out when I was at Christmas party years ago and cocaine was produced, I was able to say no thank you without feeling bad.


Never did drugs, never had any sort of interest in. Funny enough though, I would probably be more willing to try now (not that I would ) then I would have when I was a teen or in my 20s. What does that say about the effects of being a responsible adult lol!



> Peer pressure hasn't disappeared, probably a lot harder to say "no" these days being a teenager where "likes and hearts" count as validation.


Agreed. Plus, you have to keep upping the anti, so if XYZ video got so many likes, then the next person may feel like they need to step up their game (which depending could mean riskier behavior)



> Regarding the porn industry, should they be held accountable?
> How will they restrict access to adults only?
> How will young people know that this isn't a real representative of intimacy?
> Who should tell them parents or schools or government?


Good questions, don't really know the answer except for the last one which I believe firmly this falls on the parents (however, I do recognize that the family dynamic is changing and there are kids who simply don't have a supportive family structure)

As far as the porn industry I feel they should only be liable to the point where they are using minors or they are shown to in some way or another targeting minors to view their content. I believe there was a push to have all sites have .xxx as the registered domain name which would make things a lot easier for parents to block sites



> I grew up in the early 2000s, I can't believe how much harder it is to be a teenager now.
> They have access to unlimited data and information but the* young human brain still lacks the ability to see future consequences of actions, so maybe that's another thing to look at. *


Agreed, although I know quite a few adults who suffer from the same issue lol


----------



## heartbroken50

I have 3 sons... now 17, 14 and 11, and somehow my H is always mysteriously absent for all the tricky conversations (sex, drugs, alcohol, death). 

My philosophy has been responsive for the most part... so waiting for them to show interest and then answering their questions, but not going further than that unless it seems necessary.

#1 got the first talk when he was 5. I was pregnant with #3 and he was full of questions about how I got a baby in my belly... and very persistent in asking. I've always felt was important to be truthful to establish trust. Who who knows what friends will tell them... but at least they know mom will always say it straight. I only told him the mechanics of the baby making....kept it matter of fact as he was so young. I couldn't have him thinking I ate his baby brother (that's what he thought).

#2 and #3 were much older probably 9-10 when we first talked in response to their questions.

I think of it as an on-going conversation. Over the years there have been several follow ups.

When a boy at the High School died from auto-erotic asphyxiation, we discussed that danger with the older 2 boys.

When I discovered #3 with the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, we discussed body image and and expectations of real women, and objectification.

When #2 got caught watching tentacle porn, we discussed the difference between fantasy and reality.

When #1 and #2 started dating, we discussed respect, urges, safe sex, and the value of waiting.

When news stories pop up, we discuss consent... a lot (the Stanford case sparked a lot of conversation).

Good luck!


----------



## peacem

I am someone who believes in discussing all difficult topics honestly with children but in a way and to an extent that is appropriate to their age. I have noticed a trend with parents to be brutally honest with children about every aspect on life as we must be absolutely honest with the facts. But nothing made me cringe more than a woman explaining to her 5 year old daughter why uncle x had left auntie y because he was having sex with auntie z. They don't need to know those details at that age.

I think most of us instinctively know when our child is ready for learning about some of the more unpleasant realities of life. I remember having to explain to my child when she was at primary school what a pedophile was because 'bad man' just wasn't cutting it with her (one had been convicted on our street and she was hearing all kinds of false information in the playground). Not a nice conversation to have but it was necessary. Prior to that it was 'good touching bad touching' because that was all she could understand at the time. 

Go with your instincts and remember it is not so much about age but the individual personality of the child.


----------



## EllisRedding

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> That's so sad and it's a lot for a kid to handle. Suicide, underage drinking, lack of consent, misuse of social media, etc. I don't have kids so I'm not sure what age is appropriate and how detailed the talks should be. My parents told me ZIP. I learned everything from school & friends but I certainly don't think I'd take that same approach if I had kids.


Now that I think about it, I think I only got one talk from my Dad when I was a teen/pre teen using the whole Birds/Bees explanation, but IIRC I don't remember it really telling me a whole lot.

My Sophomore year of college my Dad drove me down so I could move in to my dorm room. I was helping do some volunteer work so I moved in a few days before everyone else. My GF at the time (eventually my W) was also there. My Dad stepped out for a bit to get me some supplies, so naturally my GF and I were being a bit handsy with each other in my room (we had only seen each other a few times during summer break since we lived in different states). My Dad sorta walked in on us (he didn't see anything, but he knew something was up). After he left I remember him calling me from his cell phone, almost sounded a bit panicky, to make sure I was "OK" and if there was anything I wanted to talk about.


----------



## EllisRedding

FYI - great discussion here, appreciate all the feedback


----------



## joannacroc

One thing I found very interesting was that in the US where sex education primarily focuses on abstinence, teens have more sexual partners per person than in the Netherlands, France and Germany, where sex education focuses more on contraception methods, sexual responsibility and healthy relationships and spends more time on those issues in sex education. Curable STDs are also found at MUCH higher levels in the US than in other industrialized countries. HIV is found at MUCH higher levels among teens in the US than France, Germany and the Netherlands. 

I do think we need to start teaching our kids sex education INCLUDING respect for our own and other peoples' bodies INCLUDING consent at a MUCH earlier age than we currently are, because something is clearly getting lost in the shuffle. Ironically, the pressure from religious groups to avoid details in sex education for moral reasons, is having disastrous consequences on young peoples' health, futures and even survival. It makes me worry when I hear stories like this, OP, because while I struggle too with how to have appropriate conversations about relationships with my 3-year-old (he is clearly too young to be discussing sex), I do think treating sex as something dirty as they get older is ultimately bad. At 9 years old I would argue a lot of kids are ready to start having conversations about what to expect as they age, how relationships will change, how their bodies will change, and what appropriate treatment of their peers, male and female, looks like. Sexual assault and alcohol abuse will still happen, but I wonder if we began teaching our kids what is acceptable at an earlier age, whether we might avoid this kind of thing happening as often? Your poor son. I pity him for having this kind of thing going on around him. Maybe it's a teachable moment, but I don't envy the conversation you had to have with him. Thanks for being a good dad by having the conversation that made you feel uncomfortable.


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

EllisRedding said:


> Now that I think about it, I think I only got one talk from my Dad when I was a teen/pre teen using the whole Birds/Bees explanation, but IIRC I don't remember it really telling me a whole lot.
> 
> My Sophomore year of college my Dad drove me down so I could move in to my dorm room. I was helping do some volunteer work so I moved in a few days before everyone else. My GF at the time (eventually my W) was also there. My Dad stepped out for a bit to get me some supplies, so naturally my GF and I were being a bit handsy with each other in my room (we had only seen each other a few times during summer break since we lived in different states). My Dad sorta walked in on us (he didn't see anything, but he knew something was up). After he left I remember him calling me from his cell phone, almost sounded a bit panicky, to make sure I was "OK" and if there was anything I wanted to talk about.


He was a little late on that one! I'm sure you had it all figured out by then! LOL:grin2:


----------



## Rowan

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> He was a little late on that one! I'm sure you had it all figured out by then! LOL:grin2:


My ex-husband's father had "the talk" with him on the day before our wedding. My now-ex-husband was 24 at the time. 

:slap:


----------



## rockon

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband's father had "the talk" with him on the day before our wedding. My now-ex-husband *was 24 at the time.*
> 
> :slap:


You have got to be kidding!


----------



## EllisRedding

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband's father had "the talk" with him on the day before our wedding. My now-ex-husband was 24 at the time.
> 
> :slap:


Could have been worse I guess, ex FIL could have asked to be in the honeymoon suite that night to provide guidance and instruction >


----------



## Manchester

EllisRedding said:


> OK, so a bunch of stuff here. An incident occurred in my school district where a boy (13-14yr old I believe) took his life.


What does the kid taking his life have to do with the sex antics at the party? If there's a connection I didn't see it in your posts.



EllisRedding said:


> I felt like I needed to give my son more details as there were other issues that needed to be discussed, but left if at the boy peed on her


This is disturbing. It's an outright lie and it's just, well, gross. Either say nothing or explain semen production but don't make stuff up like that! Damn. 



KillerClown said:


> I hid and ran and left it to my wife to take care of it. My 15 year old son recently asked (briefly looking up from playing "Assassin's Creed") when he will be getting his period. I looked at my wife and walked out the room.


Warning. A he gets older the questions will get tougher. If you refuse to answer, he'll seek out the answers elsewhere and they might not be helpful answers.


----------



## EllisRedding

Manchester said:


> What does the kid taking his life have to do with the sex antics at the party? If there's a connection I didn't see it in your posts.


I thought it was rather clear. Kid took part in the antics, posted video online, got in serious trouble ...


----------



## snerg

notmyrealname4 said:


> Wow, at a party of 13/14 year olds, a girl passed out drunk? That almost seems like the major issue to me.:surprise:


like a major issue?

I would definitely define this as a major issue - itcouldbe nothingmore


----------



## Hope1964

My philosophy is pretty much the same as heartbroken50's. Answer the questions when they come up, in an age appropriate manner, and never lie. My boys are 27 and 25 now, but I do remember having a serious talk with the older one when he was in grade 6 because he asked me about orgasms (they were learning about them in school) and could women have them too? I also used to tell them, when they were little, to go into their rooms for privacy when they would play with themselves inside their pants. Not in a shaming way - I would say something like "I know that feels good, but your penis isn't something you should be showing to other people randomly, so if you'd like to keep doing that please do it in private". This was when they were 3-4-5-6 years old or so.


----------



## Lila

I have a 10 year old and we're struggling with giving him 'the talk'. This article provides great insight on how to do this. 


Talking to Kids About Sex | Parenting
http://www.parenting.com/article/talking-to-kids-about-sex-21335549

According to this, we're 4 years late  but better late than never. 


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## EllisRedding

Lila said:


> I have a 10 year old and we're struggling with giving him 'the talk'. This article provides great insight on how to do this.
> 
> 
> Talking to Kids About Sex | Parenting
> Talking to Kids About Sex | Parenting
> 
> According to this, we're 4 years late  but better late than never.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Hey now, we are still working on things with our 9yr old, not ready to deal with the 7yr old yet lol. Definitely not the 3yr old!!!

Solid article, thanks for linking :smthumbup:


----------



## Manchester

EllisRedding said:


> I thought it was rather clear. Kid took part in the antics, posted video online, got in serious trouble ...


I didn't read where it said that either or both of the two kids- the one who took part in the antics or filmed it got in serious trouble nor did I read where it specified which one of those two kids was the one who offed himself.


----------



## EllisRedding

Manchester said:


> I didn't read where the either one of the two kids who either took part in the antics or filmed it got in serious trouble nor did I read where one of those two kids was the one who offed himself.


I mentioned in the first post that the video made its way to the authorities (see first post). I also mentioned in the second post:



> The kid who took his life was the one who videotaped and shared (led to a big missing persons search until he was found).


Not sure what your hangup is here, but anyway.


----------



## Manchester

EllisRedding said:


> I mentioned in the first post that the video made its way to the authorities (see first post).


Yes I read that part about the information being given to authorities but there was nothing about the kid getting into serious trouble.



EllisRedding said:


> I also mentioned in the second post


Sorry I missed your second post. I guess I was expecting that sort of detail to be in the initial post but whatever my fault for not reading every post I'm also busy preparing for court on Wednesday so my attention is spread out.


----------



## Hope1964

Manchester said:


> I'm also busy preparing for court on Wednesday


Charged with stalking or trespassing are you?


----------



## Manchester

Hope1964 said:


> Charged with stalking or trespassing are you?


No, it's a divorce related matter not a criminal one. My exwife is suing me because I'm 2 weeks overdue with spousal support which I have paid without fail since inception. I have and will continue to represent myself because I find lawyers to be useless at doing anything other than generating bills.


----------



## rockon

Hope1964 said:


> he was in grade 6 because he asked me about orgasms (they were learning about them in school) and could women have them too?


Wow, sex ed sure has changed since I was in the 6th grade, you know, back in the medieval days!


----------



## EllisRedding

Manchester said:


> Yes I read that part about the information being given to authorities but there was nothing about the kid getting into serious trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed your second post. I guess I was expecting that sort of detail to be in the initial post but whatever my fault for not reading every post I'm also busy preparing for court on Wednesday so my attention is spread out.


No worries, my intention wasn't to go into too much detail on what happened which is why I may have jumped around a bit with my posts (the comment about the authorities, I am not 100% certain the laws but I think this may have fallen within the context of child pornography, sexual predator, etc...) . Just wanted to give a quick background of what led to talking to my son and the various issues I was trying to tackle at once.


----------



## heartbroken50

Hope1964 said:


> I also used to tell them, when they were little, to go into their rooms for privacy when they would play with themselves inside their pants. Not in a shaming way - I would say something like "I know that feels good, but your penis isn't something you should be showing to other people randomly, so if you'd like to keep doing that please do it in private". This was when they were 3-4-5-6 years old or so.


We have always done that as well... once they discover it, boys can't seem to help but touch it. Can't say I blame them , lol.

I used to have such awful shameful feelings about anything sex/body related stemming from childhood trauma. I've always tried to be careful not to make them feel ashamed of it, but encourage privacy. And when discussing porn or similar, letting them know that it is normal to be curious, and not to be ashamed of being curious, but to also distinguish between fantasy and reality.


----------



## Lila

So my husband was having a grumpy cat day yesterday and those only happen when he's in a tizzy over something our son said or did. Last night was no different. He came home telling me that "my child needs a beating" (FTR, we DO NOT believe in corporal punishment) because he won't accept he's wrong (_pot meet kettle_). So in order to change the subject and hopefully fix grumpy cat I asked him when he planned on giving him 'the talk'. Apparently it was too soon for grumpy cat. He didn't miss a beat and responded 'I'm going to tell him he was made when I threw his mother down and railed her from behind'. And finished with "and the best kind of birth control are blow jobs." And then he laughed and laughed and laughed when he saw my face.  Good bye grumpy cat


----------



## EllisRedding

Lila said:


> So my husband was having a grumpy cat day yesterday and those only happen when he's in a tizzy over something our son said or did. Last night was no different. He came home telling me that "my child needs a beating" (FTR, we DO NOT believe in corporal punishment) because he won't accept he's wrong (_pot meet kettle_). So in order to change the subject and hopefully fix grumpy cat I asked him when he planned on giving him 'the talk'. Apparently it was too soon for grumpy cat. He didn't miss a beat and responded 'I'm going to tell him he was made when I threw his mother down and railed her from behind'. And finished with "and the best kind of birth control are blow jobs." And then he laughed and laughed and laughed when he saw my face.  Good bye grumpy cat


Haha ... in all fairness though, that is an extremely effective birth control method :grin2:


----------



## EllisRedding

Just to add as well, when I spoke with my son on Sunday the point was not to have "the talk" or discuss Sex Ed 101. There were a lot of other issues which were more relevant to him now that I wanted to focus on (bullying, respecting others, peer pressure, social media use, suicide, etc...), it was just that a sex act is what led to all of this. At some point my W and I still need to have the talk with him, but at the time I didn't want it to overshadow topics that I felt were much more important to discuss given the circumstances.


----------



## MJJEAN

IMO, you're a bit late having the talk. Between myself and my closest friends we have 8 sons. Of course, we talk about them like mothers do. Mostly trying to figure out the mysteries of raising boys beyond feed them and hug them. They were all pretty much either full on masturbating or at least getting "morning wood" by between 9 and 10. How do we know? We thought they were too young for that kind of thing and walked in on them in the act while putting away laundry or going into boy territory to tell them to do homework or clean or whatever.

I'll never forget the day I sent my boy (then age 10) in to clean his room and didn't hear cleaning sounds after a while. So, I sent DH in to make sure the boy was actually cleaning up the Pit of Despair. All I heard was a door open and DH say "Why aren't you cleaning and why aren't you wearing pants!?!?" That was the day I stopped going into the boy child's room without knocking first.

I had the talk with my oldest two when they were 5 and 7, respectively. The boy was about 8 when I tried to have the talk with him, but his peers beat me to it, so I just had to clarify a few points.


----------



## Rowan

MJJEAN said:


> I'll never forget the day I sent my boy (then age 10) in to clean his room and didn't hear cleaning sounds after a while. So, I sent DH in to make sure the boy was actually cleaning up the Pit of Despair. All I heard was a door open and DH say *"Why aren't you cleaning and why aren't you wearing pants!?!?" *


 It's his. He can wash it as fast as he wants to! :rofl:


----------



## EllisRedding

So here is an interesting question, somewhat related to this topic. At what age do you find it inappropriate/awkward (assuming you do eventually find it inappropriate) to be naked around your kids, and also do you have different rules depending if the kid is of the same sex or opposite?

For example, I shower in the morning but I also shower when I get home from work before bed. That is usually the time we have the kids showering so it is not uncommon for them to hop in the shower with me. Likewise, it is not uncommon for them to shower together. Right now I don't think twice about it b/c my oldest two are boys and my daughter is only 3 (although I try to be a bit guarded with my daughter since she likes to pull things ...). On the other hand, my W was going to take a shower and my oldest wanted to hop in with her, and we just kinda looked at each other as it just felt a bit awkward.


----------



## Rowan

I stopped having my son in the shower with me at around age 3. Essentially, when he started "school", which was actually nursery school/pre-school in his case. His father never bathed with him, or bathed him for that matter, so I'm not sure if that would have been more comfortable at an older age or not. I kind of think so.


----------



## KillerClown

Manchester said:


> No, it's a divorce related matter not a criminal one. My exwife is suing me because I'm 2 weeks overdue with spousal support which I have paid without fail since inception. I have and will continue to represent myself because I find lawyers to be useless at doing anything other than generating bills.


Is this you?

Murder defendant, acting as his own attorney, calls witness,... | www.myajc.com


----------



## Bananapeel

EllisRedding said:


> So here is an interesting question, somewhat related to this topic. At what age do you find it inappropriate/awkward (assuming you do eventually find it inappropriate) to be naked around your kids, and also do you have different rules depending if the kid is of the same sex or opposite?
> 
> For example, I shower in the morning but I also shower when I get home from work before bed. That is usually the time we have the kids showering so it is not uncommon for them to hop in the shower with me. Likewise, it is not uncommon for them to shower together. Right now I don't think twice about it b/c my oldest two are boys and my daughter is only 3 (although I try to be a bit guarded with my daughter since she likes to pull things ...). On the other hand, my W was going to take a shower and my oldest wanted to hop in with her, and we just kinda looked at each other as it just felt a bit awkward.


I only have boys so I don't worry about it at all. When I took them to the gym or public pool last summer I just said that they should be comfortable with their bodies and to strut around the locker room like they owned the place, then proceeded to demonstrate. I don't have the kids shower with me but I don't mind if they walk into the bathroom when I'm in the shower or in my room when I'm getting dressed. Likewise I don't care if they want to change with me around. I figure if/when they are uncomfortable with it they'll stop doing it. I know my XWW stopped being naked with my boys around when they were about 4 years old and started noticing that girl parts looked different than boy parts.


----------



## heartbroken50

EllisRedding said:


> So here is an interesting question, somewhat related to this topic. At what age do you find it inappropriate/awkward (assuming you do eventually find it inappropriate) to be naked around your kids, and also do you have different rules depending if the kid is of the same sex or opposite?
> 
> 
> 
> For example, I shower in the morning but I also shower when I get home from work before bed. That is usually the time we have the kids showering so it is not uncommon for them to hop in the shower with me. Likewise, it is not uncommon for them to shower together. Right now I don't think twice about it b/c my oldest two are boys and my daughter is only 3 (although I try to be a bit guarded with my daughter since she likes to pull things ...). On the other hand, my W was going to take a shower and my oldest wanted to hop in with her, and we just kinda looked at each other as it just felt a bit awkward.




I don't remember my H ever showering with our boys... I did up until around 3ish with our oldest as it was often more convenient. I stopped when he started noticing differences.

After that I just stuck whoever I could catch in the tub and let them splash each other clean 

All 3 boys were pretty independent showering by age 5-6.

I won't walk around naked, but sometimes underwear briefly... Nothing skimpier than a bathing suit, and not often. Usually it's if I'm getting dressed and need something in the laundry on another floor... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

We never had A "talk". These conversations are ongoing and always have been.


----------



## heartbroken50

This may help:

https://www.facebook.com/443610499161986/videos/573611966161838/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fozzy

We had the puberty/sex talk with my oldest at around 9. She's precocious, but very uptight about stuff at the same time. She's lived in mortal terror of getting her period since then, but I suspect that if she got one with no advance warning she'd have lost her mind altogether.


----------



## ZDog377

My 5th grader just had the talk the other day. My wife warned me it was coming up so I was prepared for all kinds of questions. He came home, walked in the door and sat down to do something. I let an hour or so pass and then was like "so.....how was school today?" The normal answers and then I said "did you talk about anything else?". He says "oh yeah, we talked about mcnuggets" and then proceeded to bring me out a double sided piece of paper that looked like it came out of a 1970's health book. 

When I was that age (23 years ago) I remember they had our dads watch the video with us one afternoon. I think our dad laughed more than we did as the kids. I still remember the pamphlet they gave us guys was sponsored by Tampax.......


----------



## Cynthia

We answered questions as they were asked. We told our kids fairly young, definitely before ten. I'm not for sure, but I think they were about eight. We discussed their bodies with them from when they were really little talking about what parts are private and how no one is allowed to touch those parts of their bodies unless there is something wrong that needs to be addressed. 

When my first child asked me where babies come from I told her "from sex," but I didn't explain sex. That was okay with her at first. A year or so later she asked me what sex is and I sat down with her and told her. She was interested in where her vagina was, so I gave her a mirror and let her look. When I suggested that to her younger sister when she was at that stage, she was not at all interested. Each child is different. I spoke to them at their level when they were ready. They got a little information at a time.

I was concerned about what they might learn from other children and didn't want them getting false information from their friends. I didn't want to wait for too long. My daughter came home and told me something she heard from one of her friends and I explained that the information was not correct. My daughter said the girl heard it from her mother and I told her that her friend should go talk to her mother again, because there was a misunderstanding and what she said was not right. I think they got it straightened out. 

I did and still do have a very open relationship with all my kids. I made it my job to be their best friend who they could talk to about absolutely anything and get an answer. I believe parents need to be there for their kids as an authority figure and someone who has their back no matter what. My kids still come sit on my bed and talk to me when they need to talk to someone. They trust me and know they are going to get the truth and they will be held accountable as well. Nothing is off limits.

As far as showering, I rarely showered with the kids and only when they were under 3. My husband never showered with the kids.

Once when my oldest was about a year old, I had her in the shower with me. I am extremely nearsighted. I saw something on the shower floor, bent down, picked it up, and put it right up to my face where I could see it. Apparently my little girl had pooped while I was washing my hair.

I stopped dressing in front of my son when he was around 3. I didn't think it mattered with my girls. We have one main bathroom, so sometimes the girls will come talk to me when I'm naked after my shower and doing my hair, etc. They do not care at all. They are 22 and 19 now, but they've always been that way. 

My son is 17. He gets a little embarassed if he has a friend over and I'm in a bikini. I sunbathe as often as possible in the summer. One of his friends asked him why his mother was walking through the house naked. He said, "She's not naked! She has a bathing suit on." Then he asked me to buy a coverup, so I did.


----------



## EllisRedding

Just thought I would give a quick update. As of now I haven't had any further talks about sex with my son. As I mentioned earlier, when I did speak with my son, the focus of the conversation wasn't meant to be on sex but instead what I felt at the time were much larger issues (social media, bullying, respecting others, suicide, peer pressure, etc...). Unfortunately, just recently another young person took their life where bullying is believed to be a major factor. My W and I are going to sit down again with him to discuss. This is rather alarming when you consider this is the second incident (both 13-14yr olds) in less then a month in a small community :scratchhead:


----------



## Cynthia

Wow. That's really sad.
It is really good that you are addressing these issues with your son and helping him process it. That's such an important part of parenting that a lot of people seem to miss.


----------



## EllisRedding

CynthiaDe said:


> Wow. That's really sad.
> It is really good that you are addressing these issues with your son and helping him process it. That's such an important part of parenting that a lot of people seem to miss.


Unfortunately, it appears this is becoming a growing issue among young / middle school kids 

Middle School Suicides Reach An All-Time High : NPR Ed : NPR


----------



## Cynthia

EllisRedding said:


> Unfortunately, it appears this is becoming a growing issue among young / middle school kids
> 
> Middle School Suicides Reach An All-Time High : NPR Ed : NPR


What does your son say about how he feels about it all? I think helping them to process and understand their own feelings is important. When kids feel heard and supported, they are much safer.


----------



## EllisRedding

CynthiaDe said:


> What does your son say about how he feels about it all? I think helping them to process and understand their own feelings is important. When kids feel heard and supported, they are much safer.


I don't think he has fully processed yet (at least when we first talked, he seemed more intent on just listening to everything I had to say). I am hoping now that my W and I will address again with him, he will have a little better understanding of what happened and can better verbalize how he feels about it. I would definitely like to get some feedback from him on what is going through his mind.


----------



## Cynthia

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think he has fully processed yet (at least when we first talked, he seemed more intent on just listening to everything I had to say). I am hoping now that my W and I will address again with him, he will have a little better understanding of what happened and can better verbalize how he feels about it. I would definitely like to get some feedback from him on what is going through his mind.


It's very good that you are concerned about these things for him. He will grow up being able to identify and process his emotions. Something that few adults are good at, but it is a healthy way to live.


----------



## Tamma

I have young kids myself and the school has a program about child safety and you body belonging to you - more stranger danger and abuse prevention, but I know of organisations that exist to prevent Teen suicide.

Would it be possible for the schools to contact organisations that run school programs to prevent teen suicide? I know that when a teen suicides it often seems to "trigger" more teen suicides, especially in rural areas. If you contact one of these organisations yourself they would be happy to talk about what children may be feeling after hearing about the suicides, but it sounds like you have very open communication with your child and talking about it makes a big difference.


----------



## turnera

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> That's so sad and it's a lot for a kid to handle. Suicide, underage drinking, lack of consent, misuse of social media, *NO ADULT SUPERVISION* etc.


----------



## turnera

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think he has fully processed yet (at least when we first talked, he seemed more intent on just listening to everything I had to say). I am hoping now that my W and I will address again with him, he will have a little better understanding of what happened and can better verbalize how he feels about it. I would definitely like to get some feedback from him on what is going through his mind.


I found that it helped if I prefaced such things by talking about similar examples in my childhood. "I knew a kid who..." And then I'd talk about how I felt about whatever it was, or how I handled a situation, or how someone else handled it. Then I'd ask my daughter if she'd given any thought to what she was going to do, or I'd ask her what kind of thoughts she was having. It was kind of leading, but I also found that if I didn't set such things up, she didn't really know how to put her feelings into words, it was all just a jumbled swirl in her head. But by seeing me take such an instance and spread it out in a more logical event sequence, it allowed her to do the same.


----------



## jimrich

EllisRedding said:


> However, it appears this boy and another attended a party a few days prior, the girl there passed out drunk, one of the boys decided to jerk off on the girl while the other boy video taped it and in some manner made the video public (which made its way to the authorities, etc...).


Wow, I'd call all of that the dire consequences of very bad and negligent parenting which inspired a girl to get drunk and pass out and two boys to do very immoral deeds thanks to little or no adequate parental guidance. If these kids had even minimally adequate parenting, the girl would not drink at all and the boys would have never done what they did out of self respect and honor. All these kids are the sad and sorry VICTIMS of rotten parenting which has FAILED to help them DO WHAT'S RIGHT. Don't blame this ugliness on "porn"! 



> So curious for the folks here, at what age did you start talking to your kids about sex? I felt like I needed to give my son more details as there were other issues that needed to be discussed, but left if at the boy peed on her (I honestly don't feel unless absolutely necessary that sex needs to be discussed with a 9yr old).


I am not a parent, but, I could have used some kind of sensible "sex" ed. at about 5-6 when a neighbor girl privately began showing my brother and I her body and we didn't yet know it was "wrong" other than the girl made sure we did it where GOD could not see us! It wasn't long that we discovered that ANYTHING involving sex was a shameful, fearful and extremely uncomfortable topic with ALL adults. Shame-based adults were the absolute norm in my childhood experience. I don't know why you are not comfortable talking about sex with your 9 y.o. other than the sad possibility that you are a Shame-based adult - just like my parents were. I could have handled sex information at that age BUT my Shame-based parents could not!



> You do have to wonder what was going through these boys' heads, did they have access to porn and that is where they got the idea from ....


If those kids are like us kids were back in the '40s, they had virtually no sex education and got all their sex ed. from other kids out in the streets. I guess the presence of porn might be the next best source of sex ed. for modern kids but, so long as shame-based adults FAIL to help their kids understand at least a few basic things about sex, love and respect, doing what those very neglected boys did will just be the norm including the girl who got drunk. IMO, all of this sh*t is simply the sad consequences of very bad and inadequate parenting just like it was back in the '40s. I wonder if our culture will ever grow up enough to produce wise and adequate parents who are no longer SHAME-BASED and ruin their kids as a result of this horrible SHAME.



> What a great time to be raising children!


It sure beats the dismal time I grew up in where there was no Internet or porn to get at least a little bit of a sex education from since no adult had the courage or intelligence to tell us anything at all - UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE.


----------

