# Am I overreacting or could he be cheating?



## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

I have been lurking here for some time, but finally decided to join because I need help, and have no one I can go to (other than my therapist) to talk about this. 

My husband and I have been together 19 years (married for 16) - we have 4 beautiful children. For the past 4 years or so, we have not gotten along well at all, for the most part. Every single time we get into even the smallest argument, the first thing he says is "why are we even together" or "I want a divorce" but never does anything. He pretends it never happened an hour after the argument. But it keeps happening. Because of all of the stress and the exhaustion from the kids, we rarely have sex anymore. But he is a VERY sexual person. Wants it ALL the time. 

So in all our years together, I have NEVER once suspected him of cheating (and I am good with the signs, because all of my bf's prior to him did cheat on me). he is ALWAYS home when he isn't working, and he works at a job where there are no females, so I never worried about that. Let me say he is an EXCELLENT father. He loves our kids SO much, and his world seems to revolve around them. (that is the reason I think he still stays - he would die without those kids). And he has always been a great husband. I do admit that I have become more distant in recent years, but I have been working on that. 

Anyway, my husband and SIL (my brother's wife) have always been pretty close. I never thought anything of it bc we are a very close family. Once in a great while, the way they act bothers me a little (like I will see them quietly whispering and laughing, and he never tells me what it was about, or I will walk up on them talking and they shut up fast, like I walked in on something private). But I would just tell myself I was crazy and forget it. 

Well a year ago he started working much longer hours, and sometimes night shifts & sometimes 16 hr shifts. He would constantly call to let me know what was going on, and once in a while I would get a little suspicious, esp if he would get home later than he said, or when he runs right to the shower (but he does get filthy at work). Also I noticed lately he takes a change of clothes. When I ask why, he says because when they work in the boiler room they get soaking wet and full of soot, (he works at a mill) so he has to change (although I have never seen soaked clothes...). 

A couple times this past year I noticed it seemed like a couple of condoms went missing. I wasn't keeping track, but it would seem like there were too many gone for the amounts of times that we had had sex. Then one night he found a wrapper (which was from us) and asked me what it was and I said it was probably from the other night, so I assumed he just threw it away. When I did laundry that weekend, a condom wrapper was in the sink, like it had been in the wash and came out during the rinsing cycle. He said he had no idea where it came from, but it was probably the one he had found on the floor?? Why wouldn't he have put it in the garbage?? Then he said maybe my son was playing with them (he is only 13). So I forgot about that. 

My radar didn't set off until a month ago when I was getting coffee and saw my SIL name come up on his phone while I was standing there. I figured she was trying to get one of us so I checked my phone, but she never did text me, just him. Later that night when he went to bed I looked at his texts. He had deleted part of the conversation but not all of it. She had texted him the night before to wish him Happy birthday. The next couple texts were just joking around like him saying "dont be jealous bc I am older and more experienced.." stuff like that. Then he texted her again at 2 AM while I was asleep saying "thanks for the b-day wishes". She didn't reply until morning. That same night, we got in a huge fight bc he tried to wake me up for sex at 2:30 and I was too tired. So I got called lazy and all kinds of other things. This was after he tried texting her???

So they ended up texting back and forth ALL day the next day. Most of it seemed innocent, but I could tell some stuff was missing. It also seemed like they had some inside jokes going bc they didn't make sense. One of her replies was something about a picture of his ****. He joked bc it wasn't him (him and his guy friends are always texting these gross pics, and apparently he sent one to her??) The convo ended with her saying "knock knock" and he replied "who's there" the next morning and that was the end of it. 
(my therapist told me I MUST confront him, but I can't yet....I want to wait to see if my suspicions are right....she said it is TOTALLY inappropriate for them to be texting like that.) 

So I got curious (and crazy angry) and started looking thru the cell phone records from the last year because this was making me physically sick. Mind you I NEVER look through his phone or the phone records....bc I never had reason to. But once I did I got more sick. They don't text ALL the time, just once a month or so. Now they had just texted the week before (14 texts in 2 hours) but he deleted those. They also were texting ALL day the day after my bday (21 total, including 2 pics) but he never tells me that they text. Only once in a while he will mention she texted him something about one of the kids or something. 

When I started looking at the dates and going back through my own phone I realized that their phone calls and texts were done on days that he worked "late" or "nights" or 16 hr days. Which, really freaks me out. Some of these go back to June and April, but still... My brother works a job where he is gone days at a time, so it would be easy for her to be doing something. There was even one day where they texted and talked not too long ago, and that SAME day he kept texting me telling me he wasn't sure how long they had to work (they ARE kept late sometimes when jobs aren't finished) and that he might not make it to my sons wrestling match, even though he NEVER misses those for anything. He did show up, but it was all just odd to me. 

As for his paychecks, I never keep track of how many hours he worked overtime, but I am going to now. BC sometimes, his checks don't seem like they are big enough for the amount of OT he had worked. But I am so busy with my own job and the kids that I forget what happened the week before, so when I ask and he tells me I just say ok, and forget it. 

From what I have written here, does it seem like I have anything to be worried about? I am not going to confront him. I just have to wait, but now I am watching everything like a hawk, I just have to be sure I don't let anything slip. Because I am sure he would lie his way out of anything if I did. I will need proof before I ever say a word. 

I just need some thoughts and help because this has been making me crazy, and just so sick that I can't even eat or sleep. Please help!! 
Thanks for reading....if you got this far. Sorry so long!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You have a right to be suspicious, but don't play your hand yet.

Keep track of his hours for the week and see what he gets paid for (hours should be on his pay stub). Check the phone records for more texts.

He's a very sexual person, wants sex all the time but you never have it anymore? I suggest you start f**** him like there's no tomorrow and see what happens.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

You have very good reasons to be concerned. It's good that you're watching every move now. Don't let him know or they'll change communication methods. You should go to Wal-Mart or Best Buy and get a voice-activated recorder (VAR) and velcro it under his car seat. If he's talking to her, that's a likely place he'll talk. Make sure it's heavy duty velcro.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Oh, and by the way, you're doing great as to your surveillance and comparing paychecks, etc. Just act as if everything's normal and collect air-tight evidence. You're right, if you present a flimsy case he'll 'gaslight' you, make you appear crazy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your therapist is wrong - DO NOT confront till you have incontrovertible proof. 

You also should ask your therapist what experience they have working with betrayed spouses, because that's what it sounds like you are I am sorry to say. And a bad therapist can do way more harm than good.

Besides the VAR, you need some sort of spyware for his phone so you can see exactly what is in those deleted texts.

Is there any way you can go and check up on him when he says he's at work? Like see if his car is there or not?


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Yes, you need to keep a close eye on this relationship......seems very inappropriate IMO. 

Just curious..... Other than what might be the obvious, what's your relationship with her like? Reason I ask, would you feel comfortable contacting her on the nights he's 'working late' to see if she's available and/or answers? Maybe start building your relationship with her (you know what they say about keeping your enemies closer) and make plans with her on the nights hubby is supposedly working late? You may be able to tell by her reaction (stuttering, hem hawing, etc) if you catch her by surprise calling her on the spur of the moment to chat/get together. Just a thought. Although, if something is going on, doing this might also alert them to your suspicions. You'd be the better judge of whether or not that would work. 

No matter what you do to catch them, I'd definitely involve my brother when confronting them. He needs to be made aware of his W's extra curricular activities.


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## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> He's a very sexual person, wants sex all the time but you never have it anymore? I suggest you start f**** him like there's no tomorrow and see what happens.


Yes this has been a problem for awhile. The reason is, we are both totally different....he falls asleep early (even on weekends) and I like to stay up late. We have to wait til the kids are asleep, and right now we have our daughter in our bed (except on weekends...it's complicated). So basically Saturday night is our night for it. Well sometimes I fall asleep on the couch watching a movie and once I fall asleep I cannot wake up and just have sex (I have a chronic pain disorder, and my meds won't let me just "wake up" - he knows this, but doesn't care). So when he was nasty to me last week for not getting up (I was also sick to my stomach, and I ended up with the flu) - and he was NASTY....calling me lazy and worthless....I started yelling back at him to hurt him back, telling him I dread Saturday nights, because I know I have to perform my "duties" and if I don't he treats me like garbage ALL DAY SUNDAY. Well I should not have said that, but that is what came out after what he was saying. 

So this past Sat, I was awake and I tried....I tried everything, and he told me he wasn't interested. Just rolled over and went to sleep. We argued about it the next day, and he told me he doesn't care anymore, that he doesn't need me to do my "chore" anymore; that his hand will work just fine. Well, I am just not buying it. It just sucks bc our kids are young, and its really hard to find time (and be in the mood when you are always mad at eachother). Trust me, I would be doing it constantly otherwise, because I too am a very sexual person. Thank you for the advice. I am definitely starting to keep a log now - if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but my gut is telling me I'm not.


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## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Oh, and by the way, you're doing great as to your surveillance and comparing paychecks, etc. Just act as if everything's normal and collect air-tight evidence. You're right, if you present a flimsy case he'll 'gaslight' you, make you appear crazy.


 Thank you VERY much! I was thinking about getting the VAR (I have read so much about those on here). I also want to somehow get his texts sent to my email, like I do my own. I have a smart phone though (he does not). I have a SMS app that sends all of my texts and phone logs to my email acct. Since I am the owner of all of our phones I thought I could do the same to his, but since it isn't a smart phone I don't know how I would do that? 

The problem is, this doesn't happen every day or even every week. But the times it has happened are the times that are making me so crazy. Like I said they have always been really close, but 21 texts in one day??? About what??? And sending gross pornographic pics to your SIL? Doesn't add up. It was going back and doing all of that detective work with the phone logs that really had me reeling. But I will continue to keep quiet until I know something for sure. Thank you again!!


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## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Your therapist is wrong - DO NOT confront till you have incontrovertible proof.
> 
> You also should ask your therapist what experience they have working with betrayed spouses, because that's what it sounds like you are I am sorry to say. And a bad therapist can do way more harm than good.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I totally thought she was WRONG about that! I kept telling her I wasn't ready yet, and she just kept saying that I waste too much time stuck in my "fear mode" and that is why I never get any answers or get anything accomplished. She wanted to focus more on WHY I am so afraid of confronting him. She didn't get that I can't just go accusing him of something like this without solid proof. 

Do you know if there are any links here or anything that explain how to get spyware on a phone that isn't a Iphone or Android? He has a plain phone with just texting...no smart phone. I have googled it, and can't find out how to do that. 

Unfortunately I can't go to his work. We work the same hours and when he is working nights I am with my kids. Plus he works for a huge plant, and although I know where it is, I would have no clue where he parks and you have to have a pass to get through the gate. And I know he would never be at her house, because she has kids. 

Again thanks so much for replying. You guys are making me feel so much better, and like I am NOT crazy.


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## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

heavensangel said:


> Yes, you need to keep a close eye on this relationship......*seems very inappropriate IMO*.
> 
> Just curious..... Other than what might be the obvious, what's your relationship with her like? Reason I ask, would you feel comfortable contacting her on the nights he's 'working late' to see if she's available and/or answers? Maybe start building your relationship with her (you know what they say about keeping your enemies closer) and make plans with her on the nights hubby is supposedly working late? You may be able to tell by her reaction (stuttering, hem hawing, etc) if you catch her by surprise calling her on the spur of the moment to chat/get together. Just a thought. Although, if something is going on, doing this might also alert them to your suspicions. You'd be the better judge of whether or not that would work.
> 
> No matter what you do to catch them, I'd definitely involve my brother when confronting them. He needs to be made aware of his W's extra curricular activities.


Thank you! I too think it is really inappropriate - at least the things I actually saw. Who knows what was deleted!! 

Her and I have always been VERY close. Like real sisters. However, I have noticed she has changed over the past 3 years or so. Long story I won't go into but there is a lot of conflict bc of my mother and their relationship, so it has at times, caused some friction between us, and she gets a huge attitude with me. 

That said, now that you mentioned it I went back and looked at texts and emails from her AROUND THE TIME of my suspicions according to the phone records. Her emails are usually really weird. Like she will make up things to talk about to get me to email back. Dumb things. Or she will text and just say "hey just wanted to see how you are doing"...which she never does. If I don't reply right away she will text again and say "just checking to see if you got my text bc you didn't answer".....things like that. When i went back with all of the dates that concern me most per the phone records, ALL of her emails were strange like that. Like she was hiding something and wanted to make sure I wasn't upset or anything. 

Oh of course my brother will be involved. But I would never want to hurt or upset him without that solid proof I need, if there is really anything there. Something like this will rip apart both families and I would have a very hard time doing that to him - he is a GREAT husband and provider. He works 2 jobs to take care of her & the kids. 

Im just so confused. I would NEVER in a million years think something could be going on with them, but then again, I guess you never really truly know someone like you think you do. I PRAY I am wrong.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I can't recommend anything for spying on his phone unfortunately. You could try posting a separate post in the CWI forum naming your specific phone. There is also an Evidence Gathering thread in there that might have some useful info for you in it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

wskl12 said:


> Yes this has been a problem for awhile. .he falls asleep early (even on weekends) and I like to stay up late.


Why not go to bed when he does and play a while, then get back up? You're using the kids as an excuse, but it *is* possible to teach your children to respect some "mommy and daddy time." 

As far as his phone, if you have iPhones you can recover some deleted texts and you can also use a locator. I don't use these but I've read about it and seen them, so I imagine you can do an Internet search or get ideas in the CWI forum.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Do not confront. You are not ready yet. Need much stronger evidence.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

I think your SIL was sending those weird texts & emails so she could find out where you were, they were fishing expeditions to make sure they didn't get caught.
Time to find a baby sitter & start doing some recon.
It doesn't matter that she has kids, your husband is their uncle, it wouldn't be odd for him to show up there.
Start numbering the condoms to keep track of them, just put the mark in an innocuous place.
Put a VAR in your house as well, remember, both of them are related by marriage, it wouldn't be a problem for either of them to be in each other's home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think you should go ahead and bring your brother in on things. He can help with gathering evidence, or non-evidence, if thats the case. I think he would be pretty upset if he found out you had these suspicions and didnt tell him. 

I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Don't let him know anything yet, keep getting evidence so you can share it with your SIL husband!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

wskl12 said:


> Thank you! I too think it is really inappropriate - at least the things I actually saw. Who knows what was deleted!!
> 
> Her and I have always been VERY close. Like real sisters. However, I have noticed she has changed over the past 3 years or so. Long story I won't go into but there is a lot of conflict bc of my mother and their relationship, so it has at times, caused some friction between us, and she gets a huge attitude with me.
> 
> ...


 She is fishing to see if you will tell her if you are suspicious or not.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

but since it isn't a smart phone I don't know how I would do that?

iPhones you can recover some deleted texts and you can also use a locator


I guess you now know that an Iphone would be the 'perfect' Christmas present for your H. 

Just saying!


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

If he is threatening divorce during arguments you should be in marriage counseling together if you want to save your marriage. There are some big red flags.


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## wskl12 (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank you all very much. I am shaking now because this just has me sick to my stomach. Her and I just got into a huge argument (that she started) over text (not about this, but something with Christmas) and she was downright NASTY to me in the texts....totally not like her. 

I was going to get him an I phone for xmas!! I have to pay full price though bc his agreement isn't up until this summer, so I don't know if I can afford it.  

Yes, there are many red flags, I know. I even mentioned separating to him a few months ago because things got pretty bad. I didn't want to, but I didn't know what else to do at the time. His reaction surprised me because he didn't seem too upset. He looked sad, but he just said "if that is what you really want, let me get some $$ together for a place, and we'll figure it out from there." I let it go, and we didn't bring it up again, and obviously he didn't leave, but the reaction still surprised me. I thought he would be more upset. 

One thing I forgot to mention and I can't get it out of my head......WHY would he have texted her at 2:00 AM? That is the thing I still don't get? Just to say "thanks for the birthday wishes". Was he hoping she would reply? Because she is usually up that late. He had just woken up after falling asleep on the couch at 10 - he had already basically "thanked" her for writing when he texted her back the first time. So why text her again?? That is what I just don't understand??

She replied in the morning "what were you up late trying to relive your youth...haha". he replied with the title of that song "I ain't as good as I once was, but I am as good as I'll ever be" or something like that....can't remember exactly. She replied "true, I agree. Good song". WTH is that?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes, the 2:00 AM text struck me as odd also. You have to really, really want to communicate with someone to do it at 2:00 AM.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

wskl12 said:


> Thank you all very much. I am shaking now because this just has me sick to my stomach. Her and I just got into a huge argument (that she started) over text (not about this, but something with Christmas) and she was downright NASTY to me in the texts....totally not like her.
> 
> I was going to get him an I phone for xmas!! I have to pay full price though bc his agreement isn't up until this summer, so I don't know if I can afford it.
> 
> ...


 Their relationship is very inappropriate regardless if they are having an affair or not. To me it really sounds like they are having an affair.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> I think you should go ahead and bring your brother in on things. He can help with gathering evidence, or non-evidence, if thats the case. I think he would be pretty upset if he found out you had these suspicions and didnt tell him.
> 
> I'm sorry you are going through this.


 Bringing her brother in to in now may blow the lid on things... He may expose his wife with nothing to go on...


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I am willing to bet that he is having an affair with your sister in law. If they are having an affair, everything is going to change if you decided to reconcile. You will never be able to see your sister in law again period. 

Having an affair is one thing, but having an affair with a family member or a spouses friend is another.


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