# New here - Coping with Cyber-infidelity



## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi all - I am brand new here and have been reading this forum a bit for a few days. I value the advice, perspective and wisdom of those who share experiences here. Thanks for the opportunity to request some advice. Sorry this is LONG -- I think I needed to write it all out, so part of this is therapeutic. 

Background - sorry I haven't learned all the shorthand lingo yet: Age 42, married 14 years. Husband is 43. Was a bit of a player prior to married (had sex will lots of women in teens and early 20s but settled down later). As far as I know, he's been faithful to me all this time… until now. 

5 years into marriage I was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 32. Went through all the motions - lumpectomy, chemo for 18 months, radiation, hormone therapy due to type of breast cancer and hysterectomy.... leaving me sterile, completely without estrogen (I take meds every day to block estrogen remaining after ovaries removed), and also with weight gain. While I am happy to be alive almost 10 years later and will credit my husband with being the MOST CARING man alive throughout my ordeal, the long term effect of my disease has a huge impact on our sex life. I have a mutilated breast, an atrophied vagina, a very low sex drive, and a less than desirable body. All attempts at sex since my recovery ends with me crying (emotionally and due to severe pain), him being completely understanding, but both of us in the end avoiding it almost completely. I tried going to physical therapy on advice of my gyno to see if I could repair the vaginal atrophy, but it was not successful. Over time, we just came to accept that we simply don't have sex. He didn't want to pressure me because he knew it caused me pain and both of us were so grateful that I survived a grim prognosis that we seems content to accept our fate. I even commented to close friends that he was a "saint." 

In retrospect, we did not communicate much on this topic and this was clearly our greatest failure as a couple. About once a year, I would say, "are you ok that we can't/don't have sex? And he would say - yeah... it's fine. End of discussion. (likely root cause issue #1)

In the meantime, we adopted a wonderful little boy from Vietnam at age 2 (he is now 5) and we moved to Germany from the US 3 years ago, for an exciting opportunity with my company. We have been traveling all over Europe, meeting interesting new people, enjoying our son immensely and just generally having a great life. It has been a bit rough on my husband who has put his career mostly on hold while we are living in Europe and I know this has caused him some issues (male ego regarding wife as primary bread winner). (likely root cause issue #2) But he has supported me in everything I have done and has been nothing but devoted throughout all of our life changes. Plus, he's an amazing dad to our son. 

So fast forward to last week, when I got up at around midnight to get some water and my husband was at the computer. He is doing some work online to maintain his career while we are in Europe so it is not unusual for him to be at the computer at night. I walked over to him and he was frantically trying to shut down screens but to his surprise, his computer was frozen. On the screen was a woman barely dressed on a live camera. I said - what are you doing? "Nothing! Just looking, no big deal!" 

Then over the course of the next several hours and days, as I started searching and FINDING information, he started confessing that he has been having PAID online cyber sex with random women for about 18 months. He has had 1 or more one on one, paid encounters with about 25 women, who are "models" (porn-star-wannabes from various eastern European countries). Some of these sessions are 2 way video/voice chats that involve a paid 10 - 15 min encounter during which both get off via masturbation. It is essentially online prostitution. 

Sharing intimacy with someone outside the marriage, even if not “real life,” is out of bounds for me and I am experiencing all of the same emotions as I would if he had real life affairs of these sort with random women. While most of these were one time encounters, he became a “repeat customer” to a few of his favorites. I found a message on the site where he even shared his email address with one in particular and said that he would love to see her in Germany in May (this message was from more than a year ago). Apparently, she had said “no” and he said he dropped it at that, embarrassed that he even considered such a thing, but I have no way of knowing if this actually occurred. Considering we live in Germany and she is from the Ukraine and that she probably gets these propositions all the time, I tend to believe that they never actually met in person. The reality that he even considered and to steps toward this remains for me a bitter aspect of this whole thing. 

He followed the typical information trickle that I have seen discussed here and essentially everything he told me over the first few days was due to information that I was discovering on my own – by reading the website in question, looking through credit card statements, etc. So the hardest part right now is that I don’t know if I know EVERYTHING yet or if I only know what he has admitted due to evidence, but he indicates strongly there is nothing more to know. Yet, each time I asked a question those first few days, he LIED until I found something to prove otherwise. (example: he went from “I only looked at the site,” to “I NEVER paid for private chat rooms with these women”, to “I only did it twice,” to “ok, I did it about 25 times”). 

I have been on the normal course of discovery –crying uncontrollably, depressed, not eating/sleeping, asking him 100Million additional questions and details, feeling angry, feeling betrayed, feeling undesirable, wondering if it is all my fault, etc. He has been extremely accommodating: sharing his deep shame and embarrassment over what he did, immediately making an appointment for him to see a counselor (and for us to do joint counseling), making a promise to never visit that site or any porn site again, helping to gather whatever evidence I requested to prove to me that I am now completely “in the know” of all aspects of this discovery, offering to leave, understanding my feelings, willing to do anything to save the marriage and our family, etc etc. Both of us are highly concerned about the impact of any decisions we make will have on our young son, who has already experienced significant loss in his young little life (having been abandoned by his birth family, 2 years in an orphanage, etc). 

We are both currently willing to try to make this work, but we are both also highly aware of how hard it is going to be for us to individually and mutually recover from this, dig into root cause and work to rebuild the strong foundation that we build in the years prior. We have also committed to working together to try to address the problems in our own sex life, which neither of us have done much about over the past several YEARS (or really even talk about). I am also going to have to accept at some point that I am getting the FULL story. At this point, I think so, but I have no way of knowing and that part is KILLING me. 

Any similar experiences? Thoughts about current situation: are we going down the right path or am I crazy to think that we can salvage our marriage and that he can, indeed stop what I have read is a highly addictive behavior, as he promised? 

Thanks for your help...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I have a similar story - the link to it is in my signature. I highly recommend that your husband read In The Shadows of the Net by Patrick Carnes. It's one of the books I recommend at the end of my story. You also need MC and probably both need IC as well.

When I found out what my husband was up to I kicked him out but today we are reconciling. 

You do know that him cheating has nothing to do with the state of your marriage, right? Whatever state your marriage was in is NOT an excuse for him, and you must take ZERO responsibility for what he did. Take responsibility for the state of the marriage, but NOT for his choice to cheat.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What was he doing with them that he couldn't do with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Similar? I've got prostate cancer and am moderately functional. Probably over half the guys who have a prostatectomy are completely out of the game for life, unless they get a penile implant. It is not all that uncommon for those guys, mostly the men I would consider betas and deltas who no longer are testosterone driven (PCa is associated with low Test), to be turned off to the rigamarole of injections and implants. These guys sometimes have an arrangement with their wives so their wives can be sexually fulfilled and they can stay married.

I don't share well with others, so I'm one of the guys that would get the implant if I needed it. I still might, if they can guarantee me the coke can girth model with the dual speed motor.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I have a similar story - the link to it is in my signature. I highly recommend that your husband read In The Shadows of the Net by Patrick Carnes. It's one of the books I recommend at the end of my story. You also need MC and probably both need IC as well.
> 
> When I found out what my husband was up to I kicked him out but today we are reconciling.
> 
> You do know that him cheating has nothing to do with the state of your marriage, right? Whatever state your marriage was in is NOT an excuse for him, and you must take ZERO responsibility for what he did. Take responsibility for the state of the marriage, but NOT for his choice to cheat.


Thanks so much for your reply, sharing your story and your book recommendation. I do know that his cheating was his choice regardless of the state of the marriage (and I have told him this as well) but at only one week in, I need keep reminding myself of that. I'm still in the blaming him outwardly but blaming me inwardly stage. I know it's wrong. I will tell him to buy the book.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> What was he doing with them that he couldn't do with you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


my question to him exactly.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> These guys sometimes have an arrangement with their wives so their wives can be sexually fulfilled and they can stay married.
> 
> I don't share well with others, so I'm one of the guys that would get the implant if I needed it. I still might, if they can guarantee me the coke can girth model with the dual speed motor.


I'm of the same mind. If he doesn't like that my disease made me brittle at age 32, then either help me fix it somehow or divorce me. While do I feel badly that he got such an unlucky draw at so early in marriage, I'm not OK sharing him with others.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Socke said:


> my question to him exactly.


What did he say?








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

wiigirl said:


> What did he say?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it goes like this: "I don't know, we could, except we don't" 

"But you haven't asked" 

then he says: "yeah, it's just that it was upsetting for you to discuss... but I'm not blaming you... I guess it's just because I was being a selfish, disgusting, a-hole"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Socke said:


> it goes like this: "I don't know, we could, except we don't"
> 
> "But you haven't asked"
> 
> then he says: "yeah, it's just that it was upsetting for you to discuss... but I'm not blaming you... I guess it's just because I was being a selfish, disgusting, a-hole"


A man is going to want sex. If vaginal is impossible, there are a couple of alternatives that come to mind. Do you guys just do nothing?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> A man is going to want sex. If vaginal is impossible, there are a couple of alternatives that come to mind. Do you guys just do nothing?


I don't think we should be going there yet. She's already said she's blaming herself for him cheating - she needs to work on that before she starts working on the problems in their marriage.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> A man is going to want sex. If vaginal is impossible, there are a couple of alternatives that come to mind. Do you guys just do nothing?


Yeah - pretty much. We could do more but I end up bleeding and in pain if I am involved at all. Then he gets upset that I am upset and concerned because I am bleeding and in pain (from wounds only - seriously, the skin tears apart just from toliet paper) and then we don't talk about it for another year. I could have been pleasuring him without involvement of me, but I did not and he did not ask. 
About 2 weeks prior to our D-Day, my oncologist finally OKed me to use the lowest dose of an external vaginal estrogen cream. There is a slight risk of the estrogen entering my blood stream and causing dormant breast cancer cells to recur in a major organ. Me and my onc agreed that since it has been 10 years since diagnosis, I can risk this super low dose cream, but it will take a few months to start to have any impact and it may not help at all. We discussed this and were excited about starting down this path... then D-day came.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Socke,

I want to urge you to consider where you are and who you are getting advice from.
90% of the people in the forum are betrayed spouses most of who are right smack in the middle of the fallout of their shattered relationships right now.
They are understandably angry, bitter, and not any too rational about this subject.

Most who come here are victims of self-centered cheating narcissists who deserve the pounding they get here.
Your husband is not this typical cheating narcissist, not at all.
Your situation is not at all common around this forum.
Please keep that in mind.

Caveat Emptor


I have a few questions I`d like you to answer if you could.

From your post it would seem your husband has been without a sex life for 9 years.
Is that correct?

What have the two of you done to attempt to engage in a sex life?
There are methods beyond intercourse.

Why has there been no attempt to even open a line of communication about this in 9 years?

Quite honestly I have difficulty understanding how you could think a man in his late 30’s/early 40’s could even entertain the idea of living for a decade without sexual release.

Your husband is guilty of cheating but his greatest flaw is his White Knight Syndrome.

He undoubtedly wouldn`t begin to communicate about this subject because he thought it would be self centered and what exactly can you do about it anyway?
In his mind he would just be causing you stress and pain.

He also needs to learn that his needs do indeed matter even if they directly oppose yours.
It would seem this is something you need to learn as well.

He is guilty of cheating, no doubt but you are guilty of ignoring the maintenance of your marriage and your husband’s needs to an extent of selfishness.

He seems to me to be a man caught in a situation that is every mans nightmare and he handled it badly, selflessly but badly.

I understand your pain over the cheating as it`s unacceptable but your man has been exemplary at taking care of you for a decade to the point of causing himself harm.
Considering the lack of communication in your marriage I think he needs to be cut a little slack.

You NEED to talk about this with him, you NEED to know and understand his needs, you NEED to try to find a way to meet them and be prepared for the very real possibility that you simply cannot meet them and the ramifications that will have on your marriage.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> All attempts at sex since my recovery ends with me crying (emotionally and due to severe pain), him being completely understanding, but both of us in the end avoiding it almost completely.





Socke said:


> it goes like this: "I don't know, we could, except we don't"
> 
> "But you haven't asked"
> 
> then he says: "yeah, it's just that it was upsetting for you to discuss... but I'm not blaming you... I guess it's just because I was being a selfish, disgusting, a-hole"


What he did was wrong. But I understand his perspective a bit more. I have more sympathy for him than most other WS. 

Do you expect him to go without sex for the rest of your life if you condition does not improve ?(honest question)


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And how long was he without the job ?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Socke said:


> About 2 weeks prior to our D-Day, my oncologist finally OKed me to use the lowest dose of an external vaginal estrogen cream. There is a slight risk of the estrogen entering my blood stream and causing dormant breast cancer cells to recur in a major organ. Me and my onc agreed that since it has been 10 years since diagnosis, I can risk this super low dose cream, but it will take a few months to start to have any impact and it may not help at all. We discussed this and were excited about starting down this path... then D-day came.


Cancer really sux, doesn't it? I'm in a very similar boat with regards to Testosterone. Five more years to go. If I make it that long without a recurrence, I can get my mojo back.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Socke said:


> Hi all - I am brand new here and have been reading this forum a bit for a few days. I value the advice, perspective and wisdom of those who share experiences here. Thanks for the opportunity to request some advice. Sorry this is LONG -- I think I needed to write it all out, so part of this is therapeutic.
> 
> Background - sorry I haven't learned all the shorthand lingo yet: Age 42, married 14 years. Husband is 43. Was a bit of a player prior to married (had sex will lots of women in teens and early 20s but settled down later). As far as I know, he's been faithful to me all this time… until now.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry that you and your husband are going though this tough time. I am sorry your husband choose to hide his problems from you and decided to go outside of marriage. Your situation is very unique. I would try and find a sex councilor. If you husband has stuck with you through all of this. I don't think he deserves a free pass you both need to work on boundaries. I think if he continues this behavior he will eventually escalate this to real prostitutes. 
I do think that this should be an alarm bell. 
There are still ways you can please your H without vaginal intercourse. I think that a sexual therapist or councilor can help you both discover ways to make each other feel pleased again. 
I just think I would me a mistake to treat this with equal gravity as i think your husband is some weird way is just trying to keep his issues off of your shoulders. 
I don't think that this a right or good thing. However you know and have admitted what the root cause is. It is time to stop avoiding it and start seeing if there is a way to get around it. 
You definitely need to end the cyber sex and the online relationships. I just think that you both have come to terms with a reality that I think is not as bad as you might think. 
I know this is not my usual advice. Lots of people on here know where I stand. So this is just me trying to give you the best advice I think will give you the best chance of not only killing the online A. But moving past the root issue. 
Again I am sorry for you situation.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As Tacoma and warlock said... Your husband's downfall started because he wasn't open with you on his need for a sexual relationship. That doesn't justify him starting relationships online like he did, though. But maybe it can help you to be more forgiving to him for what he chose to do.

It will be up to you to decide to forgive him or not. But if you do decide to reconcile, you'll also need to address the sexual side of your relationship at some point. There are things like oral sex, hand jobs etc that can take place instead of "normal" sex. Your husband was obviously uncomfortable asking for those, probably because he felt guilty for even thinking of sex while you were sick, or possibly he just assumed your sexual relationship was simply over. You may want to consider your actions and attitude over the years to see if they may have had a bearing on him. I know after my STBXW had our babies, I waited for her to let me know sex was an option again, as I wanted to be sensitive to how she was feeling during her recovery.

I'm just guessing and trying to give some input on what might have gone on. I'm not blaming you in any way for his decision to cheat. But it will take effort from both of you to try to heal your relationship, beginning with you working through your emotions and feelings. Assuming, of course, that he's doing his part in being remorseful and demonstrating he truly wants to earn back your love and trust.

C


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Socke,
> 
> I want to urge you to consider where you are and who you are getting advice from.
> 90% of the people in the forum are betrayed spouses most of who are right smack in the middle of the fallout of their shattered relationships right now.
> ...


I came here for perspective and advice; so far I am clearly gaining that. 

From your post it would seem your husband has been without a sex life for 9 years.
Is that correct? not exactly. After chemo and radiation (about 7 years ago), we tried to start a normal sex life again. Shortly thereafter the effects of the hormone treatment phases started to kick in and things dwindled from there. Then I tried phyical therapy; did some reading on the topic; spoke to my gyno.... there were no answers to our problem. 

What have the two of you done to attempt to engage in a sex life?
There are methods beyond intercourse. we have tried but it is rarely pleasant so the past 3 or 4 years we have not tried hard enough. neither one of us has. I think we both have developed a negative association with sex together as it is such a reminder of my cancer. This is likely what we need to explore. 

Why has there been no attempt to even open a line of communication about this in 9 years? i bring it up every so often. Seeing as there isn't much I can do about it, I don't push the point too far. 

Quite honestly I have difficulty understanding how you could think a man in his late 30’s/early 40’s could even entertain the idea of living for a decade without sexual release. Let me be clear. I did not chose to get breast cancer at 32. I got it 5 years into marriage. There was no withholding information in advance. I suppose you are suggesting I should have chosen divorce in addition to breast cancer? It wasn't enough to just face mortality at such a young age? 

Your husband is guilty of cheating but his greatest flaw is his White Knight Syndrome. 

He undoubtedly wouldn`t begin to communicate about this subject because he thought it would be self centered and what exactly can you do about it anyway?
In his mind he would just be causing you stress and pain. what you say is true. 

He also needs to learn that his needs do indeed matter even if they directly oppose yours.
It would seem this is something you need to learn as well. I'm not sure you understand. These aren't my NEEDS - this is my reality. I had a life threatening illness. My options were: a - die or b - choose life without estrogen. I'm not talking about standard post-menopausal estrogen loss. I mean zero. The impact is enormous, but death was non-optional at 32. 

He is guilty of cheating, no doubt but you are guilty of ignoring the maintenance of your marriage and your husband’s needs to an extent of selfishness. Perhaps I need to come to terms with this, but I am missing the selfish part? What did I do to cause this situation? Do you think I want to be sterile? These are the cards we were dealt. Life doesn't care what we WANT. It is our reality, but we are both guilty of not aggressively dealing with it. 

He seems to me to be a man caught in a situation that is every mans nightmare and he handled it badly, selflessly but badly. 

I understand your pain over the cheating as it`s unacceptable but your man has been exemplary at taking care of you for a decade to the point of causing himself harm. there is a fairly even split here. He lost his job just as I started chemo so I supported him through the most difficult time of our lives. I have continued to be the stable bread winner since. I'm no slouch in this relationship. 
Considering the lack of communication in your marriage I think he needs to be cut a little slack. Don't disagree with this either. Like I said, I was looking for perspective. 

You NEED to talk about this with him, you NEED to know and understand his needs, you NEED to try to find a way to meet them and be prepared for the very real possibility that you simply cannot meet them and the ramifications that will have on your marriage.[/QUOTE] got it. And I see the ramifications. They are loud and clear. 

Thanks for your thought provoking post. I sincerely appreciate your response. I will agrue with the notion that I somehow "caused" the sexual problems or that it is in any way a result of MY NEEDS OR DESIRES, but like it or not I do need to own the problem. Your questions provided me some much needed reflection and I thank you for that.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Cancer really sux, doesn't it? I'm in a very similar boat with regards to Testosterone. Five more years to go. If I make it that long without a recurrence, I can get my mojo back.


Cancer sucks, indeed. I wish you well in your healing and hope that your mojo comes back with a vengeance! Be well!!


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

badbane said:


> I am so sorry that you and your husband are going though this tough time. I am sorry your husband choose to hide his problems from you and decided to go outside of marriage. Your situation is very unique. I would try and find a sex councilor. If you husband has stuck with you through all of this. I don't think he deserves a free pass you both need to work on boundaries. I think if he continues this behavior he will eventually escalate this to real prostitutes. agree
> I do think that this should be an alarm bell. good pt
> There are still ways you can please your H without vaginal intercourse. I think that a sexual therapist or councilor can help you both discover ways to make each other feel pleased again. A sex therapist is not something we ever explored. Don't ask me why. It seems so obvious now that we should have.
> I just think I would me a mistake to treat this with equal gravity as i think your husband is some weird way is just trying to keep his issues off of your shoulders. There is a part of me that thinks the same and if this is truly the FULL story (I am still not convinced but I have no info to suggest otherwise), I think i can someday stick this into a box in my brain stored under "f'ed up but resolved"
> ...


 and appreciate your kindness.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

PBear said:


> As Tacoma and warlock said... Your husband's downfall started because he wasn't open with you on his need for a sexual relationship. That doesn't justify him starting relationships online like he did, though. But maybe it can help you to be more forgiving to him for what he chose to do. this appears to be a general theme of the advice I have gotten - thanks for the perspective.
> 
> It will be up to you to decide to forgive him or not. But if you do decide to reconcile, you'll also need to address the sexual side of your relationship at some point. There are things like oral sex, hand jobs etc that can take place instead of "normal" sex. Your husband was obviously uncomfortable asking for those, probably because he felt guilty for even thinking of sex while you were sick, or possibly he just assumed your sexual relationship was simply over. I think we both sort of resolved ourselves to that without actually making that a conscious choice for our marriage. We both failed on this point for sure.. You may want to consider your actions and attitude over the years to see if they may have had a bearing on him. I know after my STBXW had our babies, I waited for her to let me know sex was an option again, as I wanted to be sensitive to how she was feeling during her recovery.i shall reflect. Thanks for the advice.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kind response and sound advice.


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## lostintheworld1 (Aug 7, 2011)

I think that much of this whole things boils down to communication. Something soooo many couples, myself included struggle with. Your husband didn't want to communicate his sexual needs with you likely because of embarrasment. You both should go to MC and discuss his betrayal and his needs. You did not choose to have the hard times that you have had and you are an amazing woman to have the strength to go through everything you did. Men however have needs sexually. You should sit down with a counselor and talk about ways to make you both satisfied with your, "sex" life. You both need to be open and honest about what you want and need.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What he did was wrong. But I understand his perspective a bit more. I have more sympathy for him than most other WS.
> 
> Do you expect him to go without sex for the rest of your life if you condition does not improve ?(honest question)


honest answer - we both need to work with a specialist and find other ways. Rather than discussing this like normal people, we just pushed it under ther rug and kept living life. Stupid, I know


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

lostintheworld1 said:


> I think that much of this whole things boils down to communication. Something soooo many couples, myself included struggle with. Your husband didn't want to communicate his sexual needs with you likely because of embarrasment. You both should go to MC and discuss his betrayal and his needs. You did not choose to have the hard times that you have had and you are an amazing woman to have the strength to go through everything you did. Men however have needs sexually. You should sit down with a counselor and talk about ways to make you both satisfied with your, "sex" life. You both need to be open and honest about what you want and need.


Thanks for the advice. I am grateful for it. I am convinced that MC and Sex Therapy are what we need to get through this and move forward in a positive way.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Your husband sounds like a good man, but his nice guy syndrome and general lack of communication caused this. 

He probably thought to try to have you meet his sexual needs after all you've been through would be incredibly selfish and something that you could do little about in the first place so he kept his mouth shut. 

However thats no excuse to go out the marriage. 

You two need some communication and sex counseling.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Your husband sounds like a good man, but his nice guy syndrome and general lack of communication caused this.
> 
> He probably thought to try to have you meet his sexual needs after all you've been through would be incredibly selfish and something that you could do little about in the first place so he kept his mouth shut.
> 
> ...


Agreed... thanks for your response. I think this is the general consensus. We will discuss and proceed in this direction. It is so helpful to get guidance from all of you. THANK YOU for your kindness to a stranger in need. I will stick around. you all are in interesting group!


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## MiriRose (Mar 12, 2012)

Socke ~ I'm so sorry to learn of the tough time you're facing in your marriage. I can't imagine the emotions you're dealing with right now. I'm glad you're planning to go to therapy ~ I pray that you'll find the right counselor for your situation. 

In the meantime, you might be interested in Focus on the Family's article series on virtual infidelity in marriage. I work at Focus, and they also have a website called Pure Intimacy you might want to check out. I am so touched by your concern for your adopted on in all of this. I hope that you and your husband will be able to strengthen your marriage, and that your family will grow closer together.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And how long was he without the job ?


missed this one. It's been about a year, but it had been going downhill for about 1 year prior to him hanging it up. He was trying to do sales in Europe for the company he worked for in the US prior to us moving here. I timing of this coincides with the start of his cyber porn and in retrospect, he was probably in a mild depression at the time. Contributing factor, for sure.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

If you want the truth then you need to look in the mirror and face a fact. What he did was wrong, but so was what you did. He is a nice guy and you have taken advantage of that. OK your V hurts when you try to have sex, that explains no intercourse but it does not explain no sex. To be crud but accurate, you still have working hands and a working mouth, why did you not use them to meet the number one need of your husband as a man, sex? When he married you he took a vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy. By not doing your best to meet his sexual needs, you broke your vows to him prior to him breaking his vows to you.

If you read any of my other posts, you will see that I am usually very unsympathetic to any kind of cheating, but your case is an exception. I am not saying that what he did was right. Far from it. Truthfully he should have demanded that you do your best to meet his sexual needs as best you can or he should have divorced you. But with you moving him out of the country where he cannot be gainfully employed while you become the main bread winner, he felt powerless with limited real options. Also, do not forget that he has proven that he loves you very much, and divorce was not something that he really wants.

Your health situation was sad and I feel bad for you. But somewhere along the line, you got so focused on you and your very real problems that you forgot about him. Your married can be saved. He is not emotionally attached to another woman, he just wanted sex. If you do your best to meet that need with what you can do, this can work out. Good luck to you both. Be well.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

TRy said:


> If you want the truth then you need to look in the mirror and face a fact. What he did was wrong, but so was what you did. He is a nice guy and you have taken advantage of that. OK your V hurts when you try to have sex, that explains no intercourse but it does not explain no sex. To be crud but accurate, you still have working hands and a working mouth, why did you not use them to meet the number one need of your husband as a man, sex? When he married you he took a vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy. By not doing your best to meet his sexual needs, you broke your vows to him prior to him breaking his vows to you.
> 
> If you read any of my other posts, you will see that I am usually very unsympathetic to any kind of cheating, but your case is an exception. I am not saying that what he did was right. Far from it. Truthfully he should have demanded that you do your best to meet his sexual needs as best you can or he should have divorced you. But with you moving him out of the country where he cannot be gainfully employed while you become the main bread winner, he felt powerless with limited real options. Also, do not forget that he has proven that he loves you very much, and divorce was not something that he really wants.
> 
> Your health situation was sad and I feel bad for you. But somewhere along the line, you got so focused on you and your very real problems that you forgot about him. Your married can be saved. He is not emotionally attached to another woman, he just wanted sex. If you do your best to meet that need with what you can do, this can work out. Good luck to you both. Be well.


Thanks for your brutal honesty. Your perspective is appreciated and I have learned from it. However, I will defend myself that he also has a working mouth and he should have opened it before he made the decision to share intimacy with at least 25 other women. Let's be clear on who broke which vows.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

MiriRose said:


> Socke ~ I'm so sorry to learn of the tough time you're facing in your marriage. I can't imagine the emotions you're dealing with right now. I'm glad you're planning to go to therapy ~ I pray that you'll find the right counselor for your situation.
> 
> In the meantime, you might be interested in Focus on the Family's article series on virtual infidelity in marriage. I work at Focus, and they also have a website called Pure Intimacy you might want to check out. I am so touched by your concern for your adopted on in all of this. I hope that you and your husband will be able to strengthen your marriage, and that your family will grow closer together.


Thank you for sharing these resources and for your kindness.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Socke said:


> Thanks for your brutal honesty. Your perspective is appreciated and I have learned from it. However, I will defend myself that he also has a working mouth and he should have opened it before he made the decision to share intimacy with at least 25 other women. Let's be clear on who broke which vows.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I am glad to see you're still here and that you are so able to listen, really listen to people  Stay strong.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Socke, I'm very sorry for all the hardship you have had to endure, including this latest one. While I think your husband has made a big mistake in seeking intimacy with women outside the marriage, the male side of me still couldn't help but feel sympathetic for him. 

Sex and physical intimacy are for most men, how we feel close to our partners...it's one of the main ways we feel loved. To be put in a position where it's not really an option, but still trying to be a good man and honor your wife, would be soul wrenching. It sounds like he just slipped up and let his desires overwhelm his desire to sacrifice and stay loyal to you. Honestly, I'd try not to beat him up too much over it. Fortunately it at least sounds like it was strictly for gratification purposes with no physical or emotional attachment. Don't get me wrong, it was selfish and a violation of your trust, but you seem to have a good grasp on HOW he got there. 

I've noticed you haven't quite answered some of the questions directly, but have you provided him with other means of sexual closeness? I don't know how to phrase this without sounding completely crude, but there are other orifices capable of providing sexual satisfaction. Are none of those viable options for some reason? I've noticed you've only mentioned that vaginal intercourse is too painful when others have suggested possible alternatives. Short of even those, just even some grinding with a bit of lubrication might help him with his needs.

I would definitely advise you both to get into marriage counseling. Even individual counseling maybe. I'm sorry for the pain and betrayal you must still be feeling though.. I'm still in the middle of it myself, so I really do understand. Good luck to you, I'd say stay strong, but you sound like a very strong individual already.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Socke said:


> Thanks for your brutal honesty. Your perspective is appreciated and I have learned from it. However, I will defend myself that he also has a working mouth and he should have opened it before he made the decision to share intimacy with at least 25 other women. Let's be clear on who broke which vows.


 You do not need to defend yourself. Had he been the poster I would have told him that he should have spoken up. But since you are the one that posted, it only makes sense that I address you and not him.

The fact remains that the move to a country where he cannot get work solely to advance your career, pushed him in to full beta mode where you are the de facto alpha. You have a job with friends, he has only you. As an unemployed beta living where he has a weak friend and family support system, he must feel powerless to challenge you and speak up. Since you have all the power, you must be the one that takes much of the responsibly for what goes on in your household. Although you did not do this on purpose, you have not used this power taking his needs into account. 

You sound like a very intelligent person, so be honest, even if he did not speak up you had to have know in your heart of hearts that your husband needed sex from you didn't you? You have to ask yourself, why did you ignore this basic need of someone that loves you? I suspect if you are truthful with yourself, the answer will not be pretty and you will begin to have more sympathy for your husband. Cutting you some slack, I also suspect that since this change of power that tool place when you both relocated is fairly new, that you where not fully prepared to deal with this new reality.

On the positive side, when it comes to cheating, 25 virtual partners is far better than one real life partner when it comes to the odds of fixing this.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@Socke's Husband: I told your wife what she did wrong, now it is your turn. Cheating in any way is never the right answer. You are always wrong for doing this. Cheating does not give the person that you love a fair chance to address your needs. Cheating eventually leads to a detachment that hurts the marraige long term. Yes your wife was wrong for not giving you sex, but you are wrong for cheating instead of demanding it from her. She is not a mind reader. 

The fact is what you did was cowardly, selfish and hurtful. Cheating always it. Get your head out of the sand and man up. You and only you are 100% responsible for your happiness, not your wife, and not anyone else. If you do not like something then speak up and do something about it. Tell your wife that since she cannot have sex via intercourse, she must be willing to meet your legitimate needs in other ways. Be specific. Look gays have sex with each other all the time, yet cannot have intercourse either. She has hands. She has a mouth. Teach her how to use them. If you do not, then you have only yourself to blame. 

If she does not want to meet your needs, then it is time that you relocate back with your family and friends where you can get a job and file for divorce. Time to put up or shut up.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Also, his mouth is not only useful for talking. Just sayin.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

In spite of the debacle with this cybersex thing this cheater seems to actually be a nice guy. He wronged his wife for fear of hurting her!! Typical nice guy blunder. 

Holy crap, i'm severely conflicted over this.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

TRy said:


> @Socke's Husband: I told your wife what she did wrong, now it is your turn. Cheating in any way is never the right answer. You are always wrong for doing this. Cheating does not give the person that you love a fair chance to address your needs. Cheating eventually leads to a detachment that hurts the marraige long term. Yes your wife was wrong for not giving you sex, but you are wrong for cheating instead of demanding it from her. She is not a mind reader.
> 
> The fact is what you did was cowardly, selfish and hurtful. Cheating always it. Get your head out of the sand and man up. You and only you are 100% responsible for your happiness, not your wife, and not anyone else. If you do not like something then speak up and do something about it. Tell your wife that since she cannot have sex via intercourse, she must be willing to meet your legitimate needs in other ways. Be specific. Look gays have sex with each other all the time, yet cannot have intercourse either. She has hands. She has a mouth. Teach her how to use them. If you do not, then you have only yourself to blame.
> 
> If she does not want to meet your needs, then it is time that you relocate back with your family and friends where you can get a job and file for divorce. Time to put up or shut up.


I will share this with him and I thank you for posting it. He read all the other posts yesterday and he was feeling a bit glib -- like you all were giving him some sort of "get out of jail free" card.  

The reality is that this forum has helped us so much. It got us talking about this critical void in our marriage. I get that men need sex. And yes we did try to get creative along the way, but the honest truth is that over time we had developed an unconscious mutual negativity to sex in our marriage. We both (after discussing it at length over the past few days) agree this is clearly the result of my illness, which rocked our world on a much deeper level than sex (or lack of) could ever do. My diagnosis was grim; we were prepared for the worst. As crazy as it may sound, sex became the sacrifice. It was as if we both chose life - my life and our life together - over sex... so in some twisted way in both of our minds... attempting to resolve the sex was like abandoning that pact. So neither of us went there. 

Well, we're going there now. We've already starting counseling; he started IC today and I will do the same this week. We will also enlist the help of a sex therapist. We both believe in our hearts that this marriage can be saved. 

I'm so sorry for the pain and destruction so many of you have endured in the face of infidelity. What you do for each other and for newbies to help them find the will to face all of this is truly noble. Thanks for sharing that with me. I am so grateful.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Socke said:


> He read all the other posts yesterday and he was feeling a bit glib -- like you all were giving him some sort of "get out of jail free" card.


That is the WRONG ATTITUDE, buddy. Read the Understanding link in my signature if you want to know how your wife really feels. If you still feel glib after that, then she should throw your sorry ass out.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Socke said:


> honest answer - we both need to work with a specialist and find other ways. Rather than discussing this like normal people, we just pushed it under ther rug and kept living life. Stupid, I know


what if they are not satisfactory ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Socke said:


> I came here for perspective and advice; so far I am clearly gaining that.
> 
> From your post it would seem your husband has been without a sex life for 9 years.
> Is that correct? not exactly. After chemo and radiation (about 7 years ago), we tried to start a normal sex life again. Shortly thereafter the effects of the hormone treatment phases started to kick in and things dwindled from there. Then I tried phyical therapy; did some reading on the topic; spoke to my gyno.... there were no answers to our problem.
> ...


 got it. And I see the ramifications. They are loud and clear. 

Thanks for your thought provoking post. I sincerely appreciate your response. I will agrue with the notion that I somehow "caused" the sexual problems or that it is in any way a result of MY NEEDS OR DESIRES, but like it or not I do need to own the problem. Your questions provided me some much needed reflection and I thank you for that. 
[/QUOTE]

Hmm.. You are mixing up two issues here. Get what I mean?


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Hmm.. You are mixing up two issues here. Get what I mean?[/QUOTE]

not really


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Socke said:


> ..... the honest truth is that over time we had developed an unconscious mutual negativity to sex in our marriage.


This was what I was getting at.

You may have misunderstood the tenor of my post a bit as I didn`t mean to imply your husband was in any way correct in his actions.
I do have a tendency to be unclear sometimes.


It`s just that I read/post here a lot and seldom do I a see a situation quite like yours.
Yours is so very hopeful and perhaps fixable.
There is obviously much love there in both partners.

Your last post makes me believe you`ll do well as your both going to work it out.

Good luck to you Socke.


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