# Need advice soon!!



## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

I put this post on the general relationship topic, but maybe I should have put it here. It is a long blog, and I'm not going to repeat it (you can read it under confused what should I do). But basically my very conservative wife started walking (at night) with a divorced man who lives down the street about 5 months ago. I discovered (by accident) that she is starting to develop feelings for him and that they have kissed recently (although she pulled away after about 15 seconds and told him she was married and she couldn't do that). The night that she kissed him we had amazing sex (our sex life had dropped off significantly in the last few years), and she has been very cuddly lately as well (hasn't been in years). Part of me wants to confront her and then part of me is glad that she has been acting so much better towards me lately, and I am also suprisingly, turned on by the thought of her and him kissing (don't know why). She is acting like nothing has happened, and is planning on walking with him again tonight. I am frozen as to what move I should make next. I love my wife, and don't want to ever leave me, but since the kiss she has been a different person towards me. What should I do?


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## HEADENDTECH (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi if it was my wife I would confront her about it and get it all out keeping it in wil make it worse..as far as her walking again with him i would have to say no to that..


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Are you nuts? She cannot continue "walking" with this so-called gentleman.

You would be a fool to allow this to continue. And an even bigger fool to not air this with her because you have been deprived of affection in the past.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

The problem with confronting her is that originally I found out by accident (picked up the phone when she did, she didn't know I was listening. This is when he hugged her: something she could easily explain). I then began to record our phone calls. This is where I found out she and he kissed. She would go nuts and accuse me of spying on her and would make matters worse. I also don't want to lose the way she has been treating me lately. Half of me just hopes that she doesn't go any farther (she has stated to her sister that she doesn't plan to) and I don't have to confront her, the other half says you're playing with fire. They are supposed to walk tonight (two nights after they kissed) for the first time. I am panicked and excited at the same time. I can't for the life of me know why.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

russ101 said:


> The problem with confronting her is that originally I found out by accident bla bla bla


Who cares how you found out? SHE IS FALLING IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER MAN!

You don't "confront" her with anything. This is what you say:

"I know." Then let HER talk. When she is done, you say "It ends. You are never to see him again. You are never to walk with him again. You are never to talk with him again. Understood?"


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## mrsbroken (Sep 23, 2009)

I have a question why don't you walk with her? This would take the other man out of the pic. You need to get her away from him if you don't want to loss her or her little EA turns into a PA. If she loves you she will continue making you feel good to. The closer to him she gets the worse she will treat u in the long run.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

We had talked about walking together, but because of the kids and no one to really be able to watch them on a regular basis, we decided to walk seperately. She started walking with the new neighbor at my request (believe it or not) because he always walked his dog at the same time she was walking, and he seemed like a real nice guy (met him a few times just small talk though) and since my wife doesn't like to walk in the dark alone, it seemed like a logical step. Because of our different schedules we can't walk at any other time either. Before her kiss with this man, we were growing apart, but since it, she has been treating me alot better. Can't figure out why. I'm probably going to let her walk with him tonight and act like nothing has happened and hope she keeps to her work (to her sister) of never doing that again. She has never cheated in her life and says that people that to are very low.


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## 2010TAX (Jan 9, 2010)

Be careful 

watch out for the guy


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What do you want to have happen? Seriously, if you can't answer this question, I don't know that anyone can help you.

So, here is what you know. Your wife is human. Don't care if she sings in the church choir and runs bible study - she is fallible.
You also know that she isn't happy about your marriage. She wants more. She wants better. So should you.

She has someone that makes her feel that 'more' is possible. He shows interest. He engages her. He wants to know what she thinks and how she feels. She feels connected to this guy. That is how she is supposed to feel about you. 

I am making some assumptions based upon your posting style and how you have expressed yourself. You sound passive. You sound like the last thing you want to do is confront her. I don't expect that you will confront him - simply making him aware that you know would likely put an end to it. You don't sound like you want to take responsibility for the decline in your marriage, nor is it clear that you want to do much to fix it.

So, again, what do you want to have happen? 

Take your marriage back? 
Or, sit by and wring your hands counting on her piety, while the real truth becomes that her walk only takes her 5 houses down and into a bedroom?


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## cowboyfan (Nov 15, 2009)

Dude, under no circumstances should you be okay with her walking with this guy again. You should also be concerned that SHE is okay with walking again with him. Finding out about her kiss by accident shouldn't prevent you from talking to her about it, and I'd advise strongly that you do this before it turns into something more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make a visit to the guy and lay it out. You give him an 'out' to stop walking with your wife with dignity, or you'll let everyone know what he's doing.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

russ101 said:


> ... I'm probably going to let her walk with him tonight and act like nothing has happened and *hope *...


Hope? That is what you are going to do?

You are the feminist dream come true. Completely neutered, passive, and infinitely understanding and patient. "You go ahead with your affair my love, I'll just finance your life and hope that one day you pay a little bit of attention to me too."

Women are utterly nauseated by passive men. She will leave you soon.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed. At this stage in their relationship (yes, it's a relationship), she's spending all day long thinking about the minute when she gets to go see him. You're now an afterthought.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for all of your advice. When my wife got home this evening, she said she wanted to go over one of her friends house tonight instead of walking (a relief). I did think she dressed up a bit to just go over a friends house and mentioned it to her and she said I like to look good when I go out, stop being so noisy! She was clearly irritated. Went out and came back at a reasonable hour 11:30. No real new information. I told her I wanted to talk to her tonight (Sat) but not what about. I plan on telling her about picking up the phone by accident and hearing her tell her sister about the hug. I found out about the kiss later by recording her conversations. I am not going to admit to this though. Just the fact that I know he hugged her and she liked it are reason enough for me to be upset. I am worried though that she will stop acting to affectionatley towards me. Much more now than in the past, (not sure why). and our sex life has been great over the last week (much like when we were first dating). I don't want to ruin that. I also don't know why the fact that he kissed her got me aroused. ( It also pissed me off). Really confused but I will take your advice and confront her tonight, and tell her I not to walk with him anymore. Its too much of a temptation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do NOT tell her how you know what she's doing. It's none of her business. She is harming the marriage and has forfeited her right to know such things. Just calmly tell her it is unacceptable and if she cannot do what she does with him with you around, she should not be doing it. 

At the same time, make sure YOU look like a great catch, not a whining, scared husband. Women hate wimps. Have you talked to him yet? Why not?

btw, she met this guy at her friend's house. 

Just in case you didn't realize that.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Ok, interesting weekend. Here's what happened. Planned to tell wife Sat. nite about me not wanting her to walk with Larry again, but got home after an outing with the kids and she was at her sisters house. I know this is where she was. Put the kids to bed and while I was in basement watching TV she got home yelled down that she was going for her walk because Larry was waiting, told her I wanted to talk, she says OK but he's waiting so we'll talk when I get back. I then told her that I knew she had hugged him,(didn't tell her how) and that I didn't want her walking with him anymore. She asked how I knew this, and I told her (picked up the phone at the same time). She said that he hugged her (not the other way around) and that it was just a friendly hug. I said then why did you say that you liked it? She said we'll he is attractive, you would like it if an attractive neighbor hugged you, but it doesn't mean there is anything between you. She was clearly annoyed about the whole conversation. I did not tell her about knowing that she kissed him. I didn't want to spill all the beans. I did ask her if she did anything else with him. She sort of admitted to the kiss but said it was just a quick kiss like a friend would do. (I don't believe her because she told her sister that the kiss lasted for about 15 seconds, I don't know of a friendly 15 second kiss). She then said that they are just friends and that I should know that, and that I have no business telling her who her friends are. She then left in a huff to go walk with him. I sat up for two hours waiting for her to get home. I saw her come up the street and go into Larry's house. She came home about an hour later (about 12:30 am). I was already in bed pretending to be asleep. Now this is what gets me. She proceeds to get naked, climb in bed and on top of me and we have very good sex for about an hour. She said she was horny, and to stop worrying about Larry. This makes 5 nights of great sex over the last week. Prior to this, we were having it once a month (at best) and it was very bad (she would just lay there, no kissing, etc.). I love the change in her in this respect. Now I'm really not sure what to do next. I could tell she had been drinking (she does'nt drink much, and her breath smells like wine). She admitted to having a drink after the walk with Larry, and then she said she just came home. She basically said we're just friends and get over my insecurities. I know she feels more for him than that, but it doesn't sound like she is willing to make any changes. I do like the way her behavior towards me has changed. Will check the phone recordings tonight for an update. Any advice appreciated.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You are being played for a fool.

Think with your head.


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

Based on what I've read here and in another thread, your internally torn by the sexual excitement about your wife being naughty and the jealousy or anger about doing it behind your back. 
I think you need to have some open discussion with her and "spill the beans". 
You also should get some real grasp or understanding of what is driving you to behave this way and resolve the conflict.
Maybe your wife will give you what you want. But Unless your on real solid ground (which its kinda apparent your not), allowing this to "tumble down the hill" on its own is risky.

Put on the brakes, unless your willing to let her go.
Get gounded.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Still haven't answered my question. So, do you care if she's banging Larry and then banging you?

Sounds like you'd rather let Larry do the romanticizing so you can just get laid. I'm not judging, but it's an interesting way to try and get closer to your wife. 

Eventually, she's not going to be coming home and requesting your services I would suspect.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Still haven't answered my question. So, do you care if she's banging Larry and then banging you?
> 
> Sounds like you'd rather let Larry do the romanticizing so you can just get laid. I'm not judging, but it's an interesting way to try and get closer to your wife.
> 
> Eventually, she's not going to be coming home and requesting your services I would suspect.


Yeah. This will last maybe a month. Then you will be SOL, and HE will get it all. And they'll be laughing about you in bed.

Come on, man, time to grow a pair. Good grief.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

To answer the question; do I care if Larry is banging my wife? The answer is yes. To be honest though, I have always had the fantasy of watching my wife with another man (can't explain why) but what I would want to do is have them together only in front of me, and then I would like to have her myself. If this were the case, she could bang him only when I am present (she would never agree to this, and would be absolutely shocked if I brought it up). So I think you guys are right in the fact that this could be headed to an affair (behind my back). She admitted to finding him attractive and she says they get along great as friends, but she insists that they are only that (she said the kiss was a friendly kiss, and she told him not to do it again, even though I know it was more than friendly) and I just need to stop snooping. I also found out (through phone recordings) that when she stopped over his house the other day and had some wine after their walk he massaged her temples and feet (two things that she is constantly bugging me to do to her and I did until she cut back on her sex to me and the level, then I did the same with her massages. Since her desire for sex and intensity has improved, so has my desire to massage her when requested), she said to her sister that he has very strong hands. This is going to become an affair soon if I don't put my foot down. One that I will have no control over. So I am going to tell her that I am very suspicious of Larry's motives with her and I want her to stop contact with him. I am very nervous about doing this. I can't really confront Larry other than talk to him (he is much bigger than me about 6' 2", I am 5' 8") and don't want to risk losing my wife, but I think most of you are right that if I don't do something soon, I will lose her anyway. Tomorrow she is off of work and it just so happens that Larry is too, so I plan on talking to her tonight. Wish me luck, I will definitely need it!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Out of all the infidelities I've read about (a LOT), 90% of the success stories with wayward wives included the betrayed husband getting MAD and DETERMINED to not let this go on one minute more. Those who fretted about upsetting their wives, spoke 'very nicely' to their wives so as not to make them mad...nearly every single one of those wives left their husband. 

Women WANT their man to stand up and take what's theirs. Caveman days. It's instinctual. They HATE weak men. One of the appeals of a man who's willing to seduce a married woman.

Please don't wimp out. Your marriage can survive her anger. It can't survive another man.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

turnera said:


> At the same time, make sure YOU look like a great catch, not a whining, scared husband. Women hate wimps.


Take notes on that one.



> btw, she met this guy at her friend's house.
> Just in case you didn't realize that.


This could be true. Your wife seems like a moral person who is fighting immoral desires. Maybe she needed someone to confide in.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Ok everyone, I talked to her last night (after her walk with Larry, which by the way, lasted again until 11:30) and told her I think she is in the beginnings of an affair and that I did not trust Larry, and that I know (didn't tell her how) that the kiss that she shared with Larry was more than just a quick peck. I said even if we can't afford it, we should just bite the bullet and hire a sitter and walk together. We had a huge argument. She said why are you angry? I have been a good wife, we are fine sexually (just recently though) and I am not cheating on you. Let me have my friends and stop accusing me of things that I have not done! She then brought up the fact that one of my friends Kate(a married women down the street) and I kissed once. I said yes, but we are both friends with her and her husband, and she hugged and kissed me goodbye at a Christmas party a few years ago in front of her husband! It was just a quick peck. Even though I was suprised she did this, it meant nothing. (we do hang out occassionally because my wife, and Kate's husband don't like to do any activities with the kids, we do so we do get together with the kids a couple of times a month. If we are at her house and her husband comes home, I will usually start talking to him instead. He has no problems with it, because there is nothing to have a problem with. Everything we do is out in the open and with our kids. My wife says that it is the same thing, and she says I am not going to pick her friends. She has no intention of stopping to walk with him. I have decided that even though I have desires of seeing her with someone, I know that she would never agree to this and she would just end up having an affair behind my back. This is why I confronted her. She woke up this morning and barely talked to me. I have to do something else now. Talking is not working, she is in denial. She has admitted to me that she finds him attractive (she also brings up the fact that I found Kate attractive (she asked me a couple of years ago in bed which one of our friends did I find the most attractive) and she has kissed him at least once (that I know of) passionatley (there is no such thing as a 15 second friendly kiss in my opinion). I don't know what step to take next. I am not ready to leave her, and I don't want to risk losing the kids. What should my next move be in your opinions? I do appreciate all of your suggestions, even if I have'nt listened to all of them


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I will reiterate, the most powerful weapon you have right now is knowledge. You know something she doesn't want her family and friends to know - she's cheating. 

Call her parents and tell them everything. Call her siblings. Call her best friends. Ask them all if THEY would be ok if their spouse was doing this. Then ask them to help by calling her.

Get this guy's wife/exwife's number and call her. Get his parents' numbers and call them. Siblings. Tell them all you're fighting to save your marriage and their guy is one step away from sleeping with your wife (if they haven't already, which I'm pretty sure they have - ALL waywards lie). Ask them to help you save your marriage and help HIM by keeping him from doing something he'll regret. Ask them to call him.

She'll be furious at you, but so what? What marriage do you have right now? One based on fear. YOUR fear she won't want you any more. So you kiss up to her and beg her to like you. What kind of marriage is that? 

Stand up for yourself, fight the affair, and improve yourself in the meantime so you'll be what she's looking for, after the addiction of the affair wears off.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the response. You may be right about them sleeping together. I know (because of the phone recordings with her sister) that they were not sleeping together before yesterday, but something bizzare (in my opinion) happened that makes me think that maybe something did happen. Tell me what you think. My wife and Larry both have the same day off from work (Wed). I tried calling my wife at home at lunch and on her cell phone. She didn't answer either one. At 2:30 work was slow and I was offered the option of going home early. I said yes mainly because I was very worried about where my wife was. Got home at 3:00 and saw her car was in the driveway. Larry's car was in his driveway. I walked into the house quietly and looked around for my wife. Couldn't find her, but I did hear what sounded like moaning coming from one of the bedrooms (we live in a small house and all the bedrooms are right together), I called out my wife's name and she came out of my son's room quickly wearing only her panty hose, her bra and her shirt which was unbuttoned and she was buttoning quickly as she came out of his room. I said what were you doing in our sons room? She was clearly irratated that I was home early. She said she came home from lunch out with some people, and was tired and just dropped her skirt and layed down in our sons bed. (she does do this when she is tired, but she always lays down in our bed). I said why didn't you sleep in our bed? She said that his bedroom was closer, and she was so tired that she just flopped onto the nearest bed. Our bedroom is exactly 5 feet from his and the bed is much bigger. She then said why did you come home early, so you can spy on me? I said no, I just got off of work early and thought it would be a nice suprise to come home before the kids got home. I then said while we are home alone, why don't we have a little fun? She said youv'e got to be kidding! I'm not having sex with you until you stop spying on me. I reiterated that I was not spying on her, but she didn't believe me. I also thought that maybe Larry was in the bedroom and I might have interupted them, but I went into the bedroom (I used an excuse that I needed something in there) and checked everywhere, there was no one else in there. Do you think she was telling the truth? Am I now just being paranoid? She didn't walk last night, and I was relieved, but she hardly talked to me as well. I wish I had never told her to walk with him in the first place. I'm losing my wife!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh please.

Come on. 

She didn't have to 'walk' with him. They already got it on.

Good grief, man, grow a pair.

The ONLY way you will ever keep your wife is if you blow up the affair. Call EVERYONE TODAY. If everyone knows - even the neighbors - it won't be 'fun' and 'exciting' any more, and she'll have to make a decision: dump him and work on the marriage, move out, or move in with him. ANY of those options are better than them LAUGHING at you while they're in bed together.

This hasn't gone on all that long, so you have a chance. Stand up for yourself and expose the affair and tell her you won't accept it.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

I know that before yesterday they had only shared a kiss, and after they were kissing she pulled away from him and said she can't because she is married (I know this because she discussed it with her sister on the phone, her sister asked her point blank are you sleeping with him? to wich she said no, we only kissed once, and we are just friends). I still can't explain the bedroom incident yesterday when I came home early. She was obviously rushing out of the bedroom quickly half dressed, but there was no one else in there and she was irratated that I was home early. I don't know what that was all about. As for exposing the affair (really just the kiss for sure), she only has a sister which she tells everything to including complaining about me to her (her sister doesn't like me much since I told my wife a few years ago about how I didn't approve how she was living (a whole other long story) and she told her sister about it when they were fighting. Her sister would just take her side. Her mom is dead, and her dad does not want to hear about anything that is not his business. He would just say its none of my business Russ please don't involve me. I have mentioned to some of the neighbors about my suspicions, and they have all sided with me (even her friends) at what she is doing is at the very least inappropriate. My wife doesn't seem to care what they think. She has really stopped hanging out with any of our neighbors other that Larry. I have put my foot down and said no more contact with Larry. It was met with were just friends, stop bringing it up, or you will push me away from you, and you can't pick my friends. I think I now have to do something drastic, but I don't know what. Help. By the way, in your opinion, what was going on in the bedroom, anything, or am I just letting my imagination get the best of me?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think he was hiding or else got out a window. 

Do you have the contact info for HIS family?

Have you confronted him yet, while just happening to hold your rifle in your hand?

Have you tagged along on their walks?

Have you installed a keylogger on her computer to see what she's doing? Checked her phone/text records? Installed a voice-activated recorder to catch them?

Call her dad anyway. Call her aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins, and any other friends. She may not be in contact with these people, but it will still sting if even one of them calls her and gives her what for.

Often the best weapon is calling HIS family, even an ex. Scumbags like that often are in it for the easy SF; if you start making it hard for him, making him look bad, he may back off.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

russ101~

A few of your words have deep significance to them and I'd like to go over them with you, okay? 



> I said even if we can't afford it, we should just bite the bullet and hire a sitter and walk together.


This is precisely 100% correct. On your own go ahead and find a sitter right now. Hire them on your own and inform your wife you will be walking with her from now on. If there were nothing going on, then she and Larry would say, "Oh yay! We're glad for the company!" and they would chat with you happily while the three of you walk. Naturally this is not likely the case, and if she is mad about it, that's life. Right now, whether they have or have not slept together, your job is to squash the emotional affair that has sprouted, and it's okay if she is mad about some of it--you have to protect your marriage!!!!!! So get a sitter and get one now. 



> She then brought up the fact that one of my friends Kate(a married women down the street) and I kissed once.


This is what's known as deflecting: "It's okay for me to do this thing that I know is wrong because once, long ago, you did something that was wrong." Even if you french-kissed Kate for 20 minutes in your wife's presence, that is not a legitimate reason for her to have an affair now. Sooooo...don't fall for this as it's a very common trap that a disloyal spouse uses. If what's she's doing is wrong, she should stop it--your past wrongdoings are irrelevant. (Furthermore, it doesn't sound like it was wrong...just Kate being caught up in a moment of holiday spirit or something). 



> Everything we do is out in the open and with our kids. My wife says that it is the same thing, and she says I am not going to pick her friends. She has no intention of stopping to walk with him.


Just a note--having an emotional affair with someone has the same pleasure feeling as a person who is high on drugs, so of course she doesn't want to stop. This is like asking someone who is high, "Do you want to stop feeling this high?" Of course they don't. But it is is "out in the open and in front of the kids" then she wouldn't mind if you came along or even if the kids came along! russ, it's NOT the same thing. She is hiding her walks and being secretive, and she is not protecting herself and her marriage. Soooo... for a little while you have to do that for her. If you do succeed in squashing the emotional affair, she will likely be mad because she is the drug addict and you just cut off her supply. But when a good friend we love is hooked on drugs, sometimes we do an intervention out of love to help them, don't we?



> I'm not having sex with you until you stop spying on me. I reiterated that I was not spying on her, but she didn't believe me.


This is another typical "trick" that disloyal spouses try to pull. They try to turn it around on the loyal spouse by saying something like "How DARE you invade my privacy!" Let me explain that there is a difference between privacy and secrecy. "Privacy" is when you go to the restroom and close the door...or take a shower and pull the curtain. You might think of privacy as associated with modesty, but when a man and woman become husband and wife, you note that sometimes they might shower together or at the very least some of the modesty BETWEEN THOSE TWO is reduced. The idea is that you intimately know your spouse and so they are invited into your private life! "Secrecy" is when you hide things about yourself--what you're doing, thinking or feeling--from others. You are not transparent, you are dishonest about what's really going on with you, and you purposely mislead another person. Between a husband and wife some bit of privacy would be healthy, but secrecy is NOT healthy. So you are not "spying" on her. It is your home, your possessions, your wife and your marriage. YOU are the one who is allowed to go there (not Larry). The intruder here would be Larry, not you. 



> My wife doesn't seem to care what they think. She has really stopped hanging out with any of our neighbors other that Larry. I have put my foot down and said no more contact with Larry.


russ, I want to be sure we understand something here. You can not "make" your wife do anything. You can not force her to stop her affair with Larry or control what she does or when. The only person you can control is you. If she is going to stop her affair, she has to want to do it and choose to do it of her own accord. BUT what you can do is make it so that it is more difficult/painful for her to choose to continue the affair, and simultaneously make it so that is it easier and less painful for her to choose to save the marriage. Does that make sense? Ultimately she has to make the decision for herself and want to end it. 

Right now, she is having some of her basic human needs met by you--probably finances, some security, some family commitment, some physical needs, etc.--and she is having some of her basic human needs met by Larry (emotional needs and maybe social needs). She has this fantasy that he will be her perfect soulmate and meet all her needs flawlessly, and that you will move out, she keeps the kids, the house, and gets child support and alimony, and then her soulmate moves in...and they live happily in love forever. Well you and I both know that will never happen! She will be the one who moves out into a little one bedroom apartment, she will lose her kids at least half the time, she won't be granted child support or alimony, and then Larry will have to take out the trash and complain about having to do chores after working all day. They'll have big lawyer bills from the divorce, and his ex will call him all the time wanting money for their kids. It's a MESS! But she's not seeing that or thinking clearly. 

So job #1--think of some people who are pro-marriage whose opinion she might care about, and let them know what's going on. These people are often a pastor or minister, elders in the church, her family or best friends, or her employer (could her job performance suffer due to this brewing affair? Her employer deserves to know this potential loss). Now everyone is different. Sometimes the parents will tell their child "Oh honey we support you--do what makes you happy." Those are NOT the people to go to!!  We want people who usually are important to your wife who will talk to her and say, "What are you doing? Stop this foolish flirting and work on your marriage!" See why I suggest maybe her pastor? 

Part of the reason this affair is so fun is that it is a "forbidden love" and it's sneaky and secret. It's not so fun when people know and disapprove. So Job #1 is to figure out people who will mean something to her, and let them know what's going on. "(Wife) has been walking with another man and it has begun to get inappropriate. When I asked her to stop, she refused and I believe they are on the verge of an affair if they haven't started one already. I'm letting you know so you can pray for us and help us get through this potential harm to our marriage." Okay?? 

Job #2--Get that sitter and go on the walks with her. 

Job #3--Begin looking into the thing turnera has described so you can gather concrete evidence that it's inappropriate. Find a keylogger you can install on her computer to see what she's doing. Check her phone/text records. Install a voice-activated recorder where you think they may be in order to catch them. (Bear in mind though that you're likely to catch some things either online or on a recorder that are REALLY hard to hear/see.) 

So you have three jobs! Time to get to work to save your marriage!!


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for your advice. I believe everything you are saying is true. I don't think Larry climbed out the window on Wed. (I would have heard it, and I could definitely hear moaning) but I still don't know why she was in our son's room. I don't know much about Larry other than the fact that he was married, and is now recently divorced. He doesn't even own the home across the street, (he rents). I did talk to another neighbor yesterday and he told me that the reason Larry got divorced in the first place, was because his wife caught him cheating with one of the neighbors (big suprise) and also one of his co workers. His wife divorced him after she found out about the second one. He knows this because he talked to the ex wife when she came around looking for Larry when he wasn't home. The neighbor doesn't know where she lives, but does know they have one grown child together. I am going to do a little investigating to find out where they are and let them know. I don't know if I could talk to our pastor about it though. If my wife found out about it (and she would), I could almost guarentee she would divorce me over it, she would be soooo angry, especially since she doesn't think she is doing anything wrong. The only way I could prove to her that I know the relationship is more than friendly is if I let her listen to herself on the phone recording I have of her with her sister where she says they shared a 15 second kiss and that she liked it. If I do that then I cannot get anymore evidence. I think for the time being I am going to not let on, but I am going to insist that I be able to walk with them. I'll just have to get a sitter. We'll see how that works out. I am also going to get a recording device and see if I can get it on her while she is walking. I am installing a hidden camera in our bedroom and in our son's bedroom as well as the main room in order to find out what is going on when I am not there. Hopefully, I will have some more news for you on Monday. Thanks for all the help. Any more advice is appreciated.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

russ101 said:


> ...I don't know much about Larry other than the fact that he was married, and is now recently divorced. ...I did talk to another neighbor yesterday and he told me that the reason Larry got divorced in the first place, was because his wife caught him cheating with one of the neighbors (big suprise) and also one of his co workers.


So no matter how "good" Larry may look to your wife, we know for a fact that he's good at hooking vulnerable women and that he is not beneath participating in adultery. Even if he was "just a friend" I can't see any good reason to have a friendship with a person who has that kind of moral caliber, especially if he's not repenting and turning his life around. Yeah--bad news but I'm glad you know it. It's just more evidence of the truth of what's happening. 




> I don't know if I could talk to our pastor about it though. If my wife found out about it (and she would), I could almost guarentee she would divorce me over it, she would be soooo angry, especially since she doesn't think she is doing anything wrong.


I understand your hesitation to talk to your pastor but do bear in mind that a pastor is supposed to be confidential and you should be able to go to him with your spiritual needs like praying for you. If she were to get THAT mad over you honestly and privately talking to the pastor about your concern--I'm sorry but I believe she knows that what she's doing is wrong. Her hope is that if she pitches a big enough fit, you will back off and let her continue without any hassle. If she were not doing drugs and you went to the pastor with concern that she was doing drugs, would she pitch a fit and divorce you over that? Probably not! She'd probably be somewhat angry but just go talk to him with the proof that she's not doing 'em. 

The whole point of speaking to someone, as I said, is not to "tattle tale" but so you have someone who is pro-marriage who also has the authority to help talk sense to her. It's also to bring their little secret to the light of day. As long as it's secret, it has a bit of the fun of "forbidden fruit" and they will try to get away with that as long as they can. You can contribute to squashing it by bringing it to the light of day! Finally it's so that you have someone on your side to help you get through this, to encourage you, and to be a support. It sounds like some of your neighbors have been supportive too. 

However, I see that there is some wisdom to at least gathering some evidence. Please consider the right time to go and speak to your pastor, with some of the proof that it's at least inappropriate. 



> ...I think for the time being I am going to not let on, but I am going to insist that I be able to walk with them. I'll just have to get a sitter. We'll see how that works out. I am also going to get a recording device and see if I can get it on her while she is walking. I am installing a hidden camera in our bedroom and in our son's bedroom as well as the main room in order to find out what is going on when I am not there.


I just wanted to say I think these are good moves in the right direction. Bring the kids along on the walk if you have to--buy a stroller! And I'm sure there are teenage girls at the church who would be happy to babysit while you walk. But I like the idea of insisting that you go on the walks -- if nothing else it will close one more door for their rendezvous -- and I also like that you are being proactive about gathering some evidence. Honestly? I pray that nothing more is going on and you caught it before it got too far...but that is not often the case. Usually by the time the loyal spouse notices, it's pretty far along and much, MUCH more is going on. 

Look forward to hearing from you on Monday!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would also let your wife know about WHY his wife divorced him. And yes, you look her in the face and say 'yes, I AM checking up on the man who is obviously trying to have sex with you, if you haven't already.'

Make it VERY obvious that you know what's going on and you aren't going to sit by and watch it happen.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Russ,
Why are you letting her bully you when she is clearly 100 percent in the wrong? Don't you realize that women despise weak men?




russ101 said:


> Ok everyone, I talked to her last night (after her walk with Larry, which by the way, lasted again until 11:30) and told her I think she is in the beginnings of an affair and that I did not trust Larry, and that I know (didn't tell her how) that the kiss that she shared with Larry was more than just a quick peck. I said even if we can't afford it, we should just bite the bullet and hire a sitter and walk together. We had a huge argument. She said why are you angry? I have been a good wife, we are fine sexually (just recently though) and I am not cheating on you. Let me have my friends and stop accusing me of things that I have not done! She then brought up the fact that one of my friends Kate(a married women down the street) and I kissed once. I said yes, but we are both friends with her and her husband, and she hugged and kissed me goodbye at a Christmas party a few years ago in front of her husband! It was just a quick peck. Even though I was suprised she did this, it meant nothing. (we do hang out occassionally because my wife, and Kate's husband don't like to do any activities with the kids, we do so we do get together with the kids a couple of times a month. If we are at her house and her husband comes home, I will usually start talking to him instead. He has no problems with it, because there is nothing to have a problem with. Everything we do is out in the open and with our kids. My wife says that it is the same thing, and she says I am not going to pick her friends. She has no intention of stopping to walk with him. I have decided that even though I have desires of seeing her with someone, I know that she would never agree to this and she would just end up having an affair behind my back. This is why I confronted her. She woke up this morning and barely talked to me. I have to do something else now. Talking is not working, she is in denial. She has admitted to me that she finds him attractive (she also brings up the fact that I found Kate attractive (she asked me a couple of years ago in bed which one of our friends did I find the most attractive) and she has kissed him at least once (that I know of) passionatley (there is no such thing as a 15 second friendly kiss in my opinion). I don't know what step to take next. I am not ready to leave her, and I don't want to risk losing the kids. What should my next move be in your opinions? I do appreciate all of your suggestions, even if I have'nt listened to all of them


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for all of your replies. Here's what happened over the weekend. I did as I said I was going to do and told her I would be walking with her (this is what we originally wanted to do anyway). She flipped and said if you want to walk with me fine, but not when I walk with Larry. He is a friend and you can either accept it, or not. I don't tell you who you can walk with or not! I said, if you have nothing to hide, then why can't I walk with the two of you, and she said if you want to walk with us occasionally, fine, but not every day. I'm not a child! We got into a huge arguement, I told her about his past, and she said I was just listening to neighborhood gossip, and I didn't know the full story. She then walked with him on Friday and Sat night alone. I watched carefully through the window and they did not go into his home after the walk. I am not, nor am I going to be able to get through to her. I then said to her will you at least not go into his home at night after your walk. It is not appropriate and does not look right. She said well I usually don't anyway, but I guess I can see your point on this, so I won't go into his home alone at night. This was the only compromise I could get her to do. So I am playing the waiting game to see if I can get undeniable proof that something is happening between them. Once I have it, I will tell her it is either him or me, decide. I am going to get a friend of mine that she doesn't know to follow her and Larry on their walks for a couple of nights and see what happens. I have also installed hidden cameras in three rooms in our house. and am still trying to get a recording device on her for her walks (haven't been able to do this yet). I have our telephone recording all incoming and outgoing calls, but she has been using her cell phone lately. I checked it since I pay the bills and she has not called any numbers that I don't recognize. She does call her sister a lot on it though, and this is who she talks to all the time. Her and Larry are both off this Wed. so I am going to make it known to her that I won't be home till after 5:00 on that day to make up for last Wed (when I left early). She keeps insisting that this is nothing more than a friendship and she may be right, but I know that she has feelings for him, so I guess I am waiting for her to prove it so she cannot deny it. I will let you all know what happens tonight. She did not handle my insisting very well, which you all said would happen, but unless I have unmistakeable proof, I am not going to do anything. I hope it doesn't happen.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Geez.

If I was in your shoes, I would have walked 50 feet behind them the whole way.

Way to stand up for yourself.

Sorry to be rude, but good grief. Standing up like that, and then just sitting back down while she went out BOTH nights just put you about 12 notches down in her respect list. I would have had her clothes moved into the spare bedroom.

She KNOWS that what she is doing is inappropriate. She is DARING you to stand up for yourself and your marriage. She knows you're too big of a wimp to do it. That's why she's falling into 'manly' Larry's arms - you just don't do it for her any more cos she needs a take-charge kind of guy; even it's the kind who sleeps with other men's wives. At least he's taking charge.

That said, good work on setting up the recorders. And excellent work on getting the friend to follow. Make sure he takes a camera. Do you also have a keylogger on her computer? I would do that pronto.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

russ101 said:


> ...Here's what happened over the weekend. I did as I said I was going to do and told her I would be walking with her (this is what we originally wanted to do anyway). She flipped and said if you want to walk with me fine, but not when I walk with Larry. He is a friend and you can either accept it, or not.


 LOL Okay that's easy enough. NOT! Don't accept it. Tonight CARRY THE BABY if you have to and walk with them. You can even let Larry know "I disapprove of you walking alone with my wife, I've let her know I don't appreciate the overtures you are trying to make, and since I love and her she is my wife, I'll be walking with you from now on. I don't accept you two walking alone and keeping your walks secret from me." LOL Boy that was easy! 

Here's the part that drop-jaw STUNS me though: 


> She then walked with him on Friday and Sat night alone.


WHY did you not walk with her? Seriously this is silly. No human in their right mind would refuse to allow the person they love and respect to walk with them...ALL THE TIME! I don't even know you and you could walk with me because I don't care...I'm walking for the exercise! 

I mean this sincerely. Do not let her walk alone again. If she tries to, go with her. If she pitches a fit, let her. If she pitches a fit in front of Larry, some of the tarnish will be off the affair-rose. If she refuses to walk with you along--THEN YOU BROKE UP THE LOVERS! There is no lose here, it's all win/win. Do not let her walk alone again. 



> I am not, nor am I going to be able to get through to her....This was the only compromise I could get her to do.


Russ, you are still operating under the assumption that the person in your wife's skin right now is your wife and the reasonable, rational, sensible woman you knew. She is not. It may help if you envisioned her as a drug addict and Larry is her heroin. No drug addict I know is rational when faced with someone trying to take away their drug. In fact, I have known drug addicts to get desperate, hurt their loved ones, even hurt themselves all in an attempt to get their drug back! And they most definitely ARE NOT reasonable. 

Your wife is not going to agree to requests that are rational right now, because it is not exactly your wife, russ. It is a drug addict in your wife's skin and you are threatening to take away her drug. She will be decidedly UNREASONABLE and I highly doubt she will compromise to agree to give up her drug. Do you know any addicts who say, "Well okay...I will give up the heroin because you have a good point there..."? LOL NO! No they fight with you! The fight tooth and nail to keep their heroin, even trying to trick you! 

So please remove it from your mind that you are speaking to your rational wife and that if you say it right, she will agree to give up her affair-drug. She won't. You need to do an intercession and cut off her drug supply.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Ok everyone, quick update: she went walking with Larry last night after she thought I went to bed. I had a friend follow them (about 5 houses behind), he was unable to tape it though because of it being too dark. He said nothing inappropriate seemed to happen, however they did give eachother a quick hug at the end of the walk ( I witnessed it through the bedroom window, and it did appear to be very quick and harmless), she then came home and "woke me up" and we had great sex. All this after she would barely speak to me over the weekend. She was very affectionate. I really don't get her. Nothing new on the phone recordings, so I am still trying to catch her doing something she should'nt be doing. Does anyone know how to record at night? I don't want my friend to follow them every night or she might become suspicious. I am also waiting until Wed. when she and Larry are off at the same time. I will have the hidden cameras in our house and I have my friend (whom she doesn't know) following her throughout the day (I had to pay him to take the day off of work). Any more advice appreciated. But it seems the more I back off, the more affectionate she is towards me. Still playing the waiting game.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's called cake eating. It's part of the 'thrill' of having an affair - you get to lead a double life, have two men pawing at you - what an ego boost. She goes from him seducing her to bed with you, and she's all hyped up - thus the great time. Ick.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dude, are you really this naive?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah--unfortunately what tunera says is true. She goes with Larry, is all excited by being with him, then comes home and is "affectionate" with you. 

Just to be clear, affection is when you care about someone enough to do kind things for them, demonstrate through your actions that they are important to you, and behave toward them in a loving manner. Soooo...after your wife comes home from her Larry fix, is she treating you like that? If not, it's not affection. It's jumping your bones because she can't quite justify jumping his (sorry to be so graphic but my hope is that the rawness of the truth might snap you awake). 

Just because they do not kiss and make out in front of your friend doesn't mean it's innocent. First, she made the effort to sneak out of the house for this walk when she thought you were sleeping. Second, the whole time they are walking they may have been talking about how much they long for each other or how he'll take care of her once she leaves you. Third, she is clearly trying to exclude her own husband and cover up what she's doing. Please do not be deceived, this is NOT innocent.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Russ:

1) Your wife IS having an affair. It may only at the emotional level right now, but this is a progression, it WILL develop into more physical things over time, as with any close relationship.

2) You are taking good steps, keep them up. 

3) Add to this a further step: start doing things for your wife. Treat her as you did when you were first married. Write her love notes, compliment her, do all the things that you did when you first fell in love. 

KEEP THESE THINGS IN MIND: 

a) This is NOT in order to get her to respond back to you. She may or may not. It may make her uncomfortable, she may ignore you entirely, she may get angry. Irrelevant.

b) What this does is remind her of what she loved about you. It may be that she has to wander very far away before she returns. She may not return. Regardless, what YOU do in this time will always remain - you are doing what is right, and you can live with yourself, knowing that you were loving, kind and understanding. 

c) There may come a time when you must cut off all ties completely. DO NOT DO THIS YET. When you do, it will be to let her understand what she has walked away from. This is a step that you may need to take one day. Not today.

Right now, be the man she loved, and remember that she has been taken over by aliens. She looks and sounds and feels and smells like the person you married. But she does not THINK like the person you married. She has built a fantasy world and is living in it, contrary to all reality. You job, should you chose to accept it, is to make reality loving and open for her.

But do not be a doormat. Do not let her walk over you; do NOT aid this affair in any way. Do all you can to extinguish it. 

Ask her where she is going in the middle of the night. Go with her on her walks. In fact, I'd suggest that since she doesn't want you to walk with her and loverboy - why not just tell her you really need the exercise as well - and walk a block behind them. You certainly are not walking WITH them, - and you are getting your exercise! What's wrong with that??? What a coincidence that it happens the same time as her walk!

Get to know loverboy. Take him out for a beer. Make him uncomfortable. Let him know you will guard your wife, and that you love her.

Keep it up. You can save your marriage - but what is better: you can do the right thing at all times.


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## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Oh man seriously if you dont do somethiing about this now its going to go south fast do you want her having sex with this guy? I mean right now its just a kiss but keep hiding it all and it will go into a affair? what are you doing?


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

My wife didn't walk with him last night. She went to bed early. I took the opportunity to talk to Larry about what is happening with my wife. I saw him getting ready to go for his walk and I walked across the street to talk to him. I told him that I know that he kissed my wife (he swears he did not do anything and that my wife was the one who kissed him, and that he did not kiss her back and that was the end of it. He insists that they are just friends and that I have to stop pestering my wife about it. He then reminded me that I was the one who asked him to walk with her in the first place. I said Yes walk with her, not kiss her. I know what he is saying is false (because of my wife's phone calls to her sister). I said you better never try anything with my wife. He just stated again that they are just friends and I need to lighten up, or I'll drive my wife away from me. He tried to act like my friend. I know that he is lying so he is not my friend. I know I'm going to hear about this from my wife when I get home from work today, but I needed to do this since they both have Wed. off while I am at work. Not looking forward to the confrontation when I get home. I know that I am probably receiving all of my affection from my wife (sex and other) because of Larry, but I guess I can live with the walks as long as I monitor them, and I am reasonably confident nothing else is happening, because before she was walking with Larry, I was lucky to get sex once a month, at even then, it was bad (she just laid there for 5 minutes, that was all I was allowed, then she would say hurry up and be done already), now I am getting it several times a week, and it is great (although she still won't kiss me, hasn't in 5 years). Even if it is due to Larry, at least I am the one getting it. I'll let you all know what happens tonight when I get home and will probably get confronted by my wife on why I won't let this issue die.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OMG. So...now you're basically paying a john to get your wife turned on so you can have sex with her. And the collateral you're paying with is your wife's emotions.

Where's the throw up icon?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

WOW

So you are ok that your wife has zero desire for you.
Won't kiss you
Can only have decent sex with you while pretending you are Larry

ok - to each their own

IF MY WIFE LOST HER DESIRE FOR ME. Oh wait a second she did at one point about 4-5 years ago. Oh yeah, now I remember I worked on it until I understood the problem - which actually was me - and then I fixed it. And after that she wanted me. 

Even when she had lost her desire - we still had sex once every 5 days or so - more then she wanted and less then I wanted. And it WAS painful. I knew she was not so into it - and she knew she wasn't being a very loving wife. But I forced the issue and eventually figured out what was broken. No way would I tolerate once a month sex while she stared at the ceiling. 





russ101 said:


> My wife didn't walk with him last night. She went to bed early. I took the opportunity to talk to Larry about what is happening with my wife. I saw him getting ready to go for his walk and I walked across the street to talk to him. I told him that I know that he kissed my wife (he swears he did not do anything and that my wife was the one who kissed him, and that he did not kiss her back and that was the end of it. He insists that they are just friends and that I have to stop pestering my wife about it. He then reminded me that I was the one who asked him to walk with her in the first place. I said Yes walk with her, not kiss her. I know what he is saying is false (because of my wife's phone calls to her sister). I said you better never try anything with my wife. He just stated again that they are just friends and I need to lighten up, or I'll drive my wife away from me. He tried to act like my friend. I know that he is lying so he is not my friend. I know I'm going to hear about this from my wife when I get home from work today, but I needed to do this since they both have Wed. off while I am at work. Not looking forward to the confrontation when I get home. I know that I am probably receiving all of my affection from my wife (sex and other) because of Larry, but I guess I can live with the walks as long as I monitor them, and I am reasonably confident nothing else is happening, because before she was walking with Larry, I was lucky to get sex once a month, at even then, it was bad (she just laid there for 5 minutes, that was all I was allowed, then she would say hurry up and be done already), now I am getting it several times a week, and it is great (although she still won't kiss me, hasn't in 5 years). Even if it is due to Larry, at least I am the one getting it. I'll let you all know what happens tonight when I get home and will probably get confronted by my wife on why I won't let this issue die.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

russ101 said:


> ...My wife didn't walk with him last night. She went to bed early....etc...


Russ.....please consider what you are doing. 

First: You admit you know Quagmire is lying. On top of that, he gave you a direct promise that he intends to steal your wife:



> He just stated again that they are just friends and I need to lighten up, or I'll drive my wife away from me.


Think about that statement. Think about it again. Your wife is confiding things in him that he has NO business knowing.

On top of that - he told YOU to back off! Quagmire, the neighborhood lech, told YOU to back off. Does this not raise ANY kind of red flag? This is a veiled promise that your wife and he have something YOU do not.

Tell him that you have changed your mind - you would rather he leave your wife alone altogether. Tell him you would rather keep your wife from making a mistake that she might regret later. Quagmire is interested in conquest only: once he has her, he will move on to the next object of gratification. Your wife will lose both you and him. She will suffer needlessly.

Fight FOR your marriage.

Think back to when you first married. How was sex then? You can get that back - but you need to work for it. Without knowing your history, I am assuming that you have done things over the course of your marriage that have dampened, if not entirely extinguished the flames of your wife's passion for you. 

That fire can be rebuilt

But let me posit something for you to consider: you are getting sex now, and this is so because your wife gets hot for Quagmire, and comes home hormonally charged and needs release. But you say she has no passion for you.

Want to bet the fact that you are willing to sleep with someone that really does not desire you is a HUGE factor in her distaste for you? Reverse the situation: how would you feel if your wife would sleep with ANYTHING regardless of how it felt for her. How desirable is that?

Try this: avoid the temptation for a night or two. Normally this is against marriage principle: your body belongs to your wife, and vice versa: but you are NOT the cast off, the replacement for the real desire. You are to BE her desire. 

This probably seems absolutely impossible: but consider what this could do for your marriage: it is possible to build some respect for you again. She seems to be reticent to have sex with Quagmire, but you have to be careful in how you approach this situation. 

Tell her you're so hot for her - but you need her to romance you, to want you for who you are. Let her chase you. Let her win you. You might be pleasantly surprised that she might actually begin to want you again. 

But there are bigger fish to fry: my suggestion is to ask your wife what things you do that are the biggest bothers to her. Of course, the Quagmire thing will come up - but dig for others. What, in the past, have you done that has turned her off.

Take this quiz - it might help you get a grip on what you need to do to start those fires again:

Love Busters Questionnaire

Keep on doing what you are doing: but for Pete's sake, quit selling yourself out for sex. I hate to point this out, but sex is 1) not absolutely necessary, and 2) you have mother thumb and her 4 daughters if you just can't take it any more.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i would have whipped his ass


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Well before I even was able to talk to my wife on Wed and right after I posted yesterday's blog, I got a call from my friend who had taken the day off (at my expense) and was following my wife. She went out to lunch again with Larry! She was dressed up like she was going to a wedding, her sexy black dress that she only wears on special occasions. My friend called me at work and said they were at lunch for 3 hours! Then they went back to my house, alone, something she swore she would never do! We'll I pretended to be getting sick and left work early to come home. Talked again with my friend (who said they were both still in my house). I entered the house from the back door quietly and what I saw confirmed all of my (and all of your) suspicions. Larry and my wife were making out on the couch. Larry had his hand up my wife's skirt and was playing with her. My wife had her hands on Larry's crotch, rubbing him. I watched for about a minute (I was devestated, but also turned on and didn't want them to know I was there). Then my wife looked up and said Oh my God! I could tell she was drunk by her red eyes. I said Just friends huh? My wife had to get between me and Larry. I wanted to kill him! He is 6 inches taller than me, and he was hiding behind my wife telling me to calm down! I just said get out of my house. If I ever see you with my wife again, you won't live to regret it! This was not my personality, I don't know how I was saying all of it. He left and my wife started crying saying, I swear I never slept with him, I was just drunk and I don't know how it happened. (I checked the tapes after finished talking to my wife and she had asked him to come in and help her with a problem on the computer. After he fixed it, my wife got on the computer and while she was looking something up, he started to massage her, after a few minutes he moved his hand down to her breast and started caressing it. She did tell him to stop, and put up a little resistance, but quickly caved in, and they moved to the couch. I walked in about 5 minutes later. If I hadn't walked in when I did, I'm sure they would have moved to the bedroom within minutes.). I told my wife I didn't want to see her right now, and I'm not sure when I'll be able to look at her. I don't want to lose my family, but I don't know how I can stay with my wife after all of her lies. I know you all were right, and I probably knew it all along, but just didn't want to deal with it. Please don't say I told you so. It is now Thursday, I haven't talked to her since last night (she stayed in the bedroom all night crying). I busied myself taking care of the kids, and left for work today before she got up. I'm going to see her tonight, and I still don't want to see her. I'm not sure of my next move other than to say we either go to counseling and you cut all contact with Larry, or it is over. Other than that, I'm probably not going to talk to her. I probably deserved this somehow, but don't know how I am going to cope.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm so sorry. 

No, you NEVER deserve to be cheated on.

What a slimeball.

NOW will you get his family's information and call them all and tell them what he did?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

thats sad to hear


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Russ, I am so sorry. So sorry. I've been in the same shoes, I can empathize, I can even say I know exactly how you feel. 

Right now, the best advice I can give is to S.L.O.W. D.O.W.N. Nothing needs to happen in an instant. Take time to work through your pain, take time to just feel sad and angry. That's perfectly O.K. and normal.

What you DON'T want to do right now is act on any instincts you have. You are getting on the roller coaster. 

Before you act, consider every step you are about to take. Think through the possible consequences and come HERE to discuss them before you move on.

Before you even move to expose this affair, talk to your wife. Ask her to stop, completely, and to refuse to have ANY more contact with Quagmire. If she agrees to this, you can then set up a means of transparency between you too.

All of these steps take some explaining - which is why it is so important to seek advice from your wise friends.

It is absolutely possible to save your marriage and make it better than it ever was. Just take your time to do it rationally, intelligently, and wisely, in love and strength. Yes, this is the time to be strong.

And for all best results - stay away from booze, drugs, etc - they may seem the best solution, but in the end, they only damage your chances, and slow down any recovery.

My prayers are with you. I am here for you.

David


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

turnera said:


> I'm so sorry.
> 
> No, you NEVER deserve to be cheated on.
> 
> ...


Im sorry, but I don't agree with the marriage builders approach on this. This man is his neighbor, and this is only going to make extra problems where there are already plenty. He had no committment to that man, his problem should be with what his wife has done, not the other man.

Russ,
First, you have to understand that no one deserves to be cheated on. You deserve to have a devoted wife! 

My advice would be for you to decide if you want to forgive her for her actions or not. You then need to work out exactly what you need to have happen to build trust back with your wife. This should also include a sex life that you have been missing out on as well. You should also seek a counselor ASAP. I can understand you are going through a ton of emotions that you should really have someone help you understand. Best of luck!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

No russ, you don't deserve this and I am so sorry. I know how much this hurts. 

I have a few thoughts for you. First, don't make any decisions now, in the heat of passion. Right this minute you probably feel like killing someone or dying, and those are your emotions going haywire. Right now it is going to hurt like the ****ens, so wait until some of the most excruciating pain has passed and then make decisions slowly and wisely. 

Next, for practical advice--buy some kleenex with lotion and some soup. Right now you and your wife both are going to be doing a lot of crying, and if you have normal kleenex they chafe your eyes and nose and the salt from the tears will swell your eyes shut. And soup--if you're doing a lot of crying there will be a knot in your throat and you need to eat "something" just for some nourishment. Soup is warm, it feels good (like comfort food) and you can choke it down. 

Finally I would say that it's okay and even reasonable if your wife sleeps in the guest bedroom for a while and let a little time go by. While she is sad and probably somewhat ashamed of her behavior in her own home, you may want to talk to her and ask if she's willing to end all contact with Larry FOREVER, and never speak to him again. She may say she's willing but doesn't know how to do it, and that's actually and okay place to be. From that point, we can help you get over the hurt of what you saw, help you get her through the withdrawal from the affair, and then help the both of you regain the love and trust in your marriage. 

Again, I'm so sorry but we are here and you can do this!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nancie, the purpose of telling the OM's family is so that THEY give him h&ll for doing this - to make it more likely that he will leave russ' wife alone. Most men who target married women are just in it for the sex. If russ makes it a big enough hassle, he'll walk away.

What problems should russ be worrying about causing? If anything, this guy should pack up and move for what he's done. If you're talking about neighbors, well, they NEED to know what he's doing, so he won't do it to someone else's wife! He just lost his right for nice treatment.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Turn - I kind of agree with Nancie - although I disagree that this is a 'marriage builders' approach. The marriage builder's approach would be to expose the affair to those who have positive influence on the wandering spouse. 

I'm of the opinion that Quagmire's family is most likely uninterested in what happens - he is a known philanderer - they are probably aware of it, and may even think its funny. 

If anything, simply tell the rest of the neighborhood what he did to her. Make it uncomfortable for him to remain in that neighborhood. That's what community is for.

If any exposure is to be done, it should be to her family, her church, etc - but I don't think this is the time for that either. My gut instinct tells me that Russ' wife is in a place where shame, humiliation and guilt are already the strongest influences. This is the time to try to start work together. 

Exposure normally works better as a means of revealing the affair - not broadcasting its already known existence. It should never be used as punishment, nor possible extortion. 

She is in a place to start work. Since I am always on the side of the marriage, my argument is that Russ find a way to recreate his marriage. Although divorce is always an option, it is highly destructive, it damages everyone involved, and rarely is a good solution. 

It's time to build that marriage - the wrong has been rooted out and revealed. Time to start the healing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> If anything, simply tell the rest of the neighborhood what he did to her. Make it uncomfortable for him to remain in that neighborhood. That's what community is for.


I'm good with that.

I guess we really need to hear what's going on. If she's 'over' it all now, and humble, and wanting to fix her marriage, they can just move forward. If she's 'in love' and has decided to take the affair underground, then exposure is necessary, because the affair isn't over, just discovered.

IMO, there are two kinds of guys who have affairs - those who accidentally fall in love with a woman, and those who see vulnerable women and target them so they can have free sex and have the thrill of the hunt. 

I guess time will tell which kind he is. If he's the former, he'll hang on and try to keep it going; if he's the latter, they'll never see him again.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Turnera (and russ)~

You have a good point there. Right now it's hard to tell where russ' wife is because he hasn't spoken to her! Thus you may be right, it's conceivable the affair isn't over, just discovered. 

Soooo...NOTE TO RUSS: here's how you can tell where she's at. If she says "Yes, it's over I agree to end it forever" don't ENTIRELY believe it all. 

1) If she willingly and with what appears to be repentance turns over all passwords, cell phones, etc. and agrees to let you (russ) do what you request to check up on her...then chances are that she may mean it. 

2) If she appears to be somewhat arrogant or defiant and is not willing to turn over all passwords, cell phones, etc. or to let you (russ) do what you request to check up on her...then chances are good that she is taking the affair underground and she probably doesn't mean it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

russ, I know you're here, I saw you posting, lol.

Are you ok? What happened?


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for all of your replies. Good advice for most of them. I did talk briefly with my wife yesterday after work. She admitted to me that she is attracted to him intellectually, and therefor, she is also attracted to him physically. She said she never meant to act on her attraction, it just happened. I said you should have never been alone with him if you were attracted to him. The temptation would be too great. She said it has nothing to do with her relationship with me (which we both agreed needs alot of work). I said the only way I will stay with you is if you cease to contact Larry in any way (talking, phoning walking etc.,). She agreed with one condition. She said she does not want any of our friends to know what has happened. She said she would die of embarrassment and it would cause too much friction with all the neighbors. I did not give her an answer to this (I said you will have to let me think about it over the weekend. The only thing I will promise you is that I won't say anything over the weekend). I am going up north with a couple of buddies this weekend and my wife will be home with the kids. This trip was planned many months ago. I told her that in order for me to trust her over the weekend she cannot go anywhere without one of our kids with her. She agreed. I am also going to keep the recording device on the phone while I am gone. We talked about many of the reasons why we have been drifting apart. She is unhappy in our small home and wants to move to a better one, she wants me to make more than the $50,000 I make a year, she doesn't want to work (and she doesn't want to do much housework either, one of the areas we always fight about), and she basically wants a much higher standard of living than we have. She also doesn't want me to work as many hours as I usually do. I said we can discuss all of this at our first counseling session as I also have issues I would like to discuss with you. She agreed. I also during the conversation admitted to her finally that even though I was mad as h#ll at her for doing what she has, I was also turned on by the sight of it. She asked me why on earth would that excite you? I could not give her an answer. Maybe I should have kept that to myself. Anyways, I am going up north and won't replyto any of this till Monday. I really just want to get away for a couple of days. Thanks for all of your help, and for not saying I told you so. Keep the advice coming.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure your cameras are turned on!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would point out that, if she becomes a housewife, housework IS her job.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Russ - I hope you don't mind if I question the wisdom of you going away this weekend. The most important issue in your life right now should be saving your marriage, not camping trips with your buddies. 

I'm not trying to be harsh, but there are some things to consider: what if your wife, or one of your kids, had to be suddenly hospitalized this weekend: would the excursion with your buddies still take place? Is not your marriage this important?

It may be that one of the troubles you are BOTH having is a lack of complete commitment to your marriage. Your wife certainly evidenced that - but now, in the middle of a huge crisis, you seem to be placing priority on your buddies! If they are true friends, they will understand a cancellation.

The trouble is this: your wife is extremely vulnerable to temptation right now: an affair is like a drug addiction. You are leaving her at home, alone, with all the drugs lying on the counter, and just the promise of the addict that she won't touch them. Bad idea.

No, you can't truly change your wife's action: if she wants to continue the affair, she can make that choice. But the messages you are giving her RIGHT NOW are extremely important. 

As for counseling - that can be a good idea, although it's often difficult to find a pro-marriage counselor these days. In the meantime: take these quizzes with your wife - they will give you both plenty of topics to discuss and a good safe platform in which to discuss them:

Emotional Needs Questionnaire

and

Love Busters Questionnaire

Right now, you have an excellent opportunity to save your marriage, and to make it better and stronger than before. But you both have a lot of work to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I so agree. Absolute worst time in the world to leave. Unless you take POS OM - or your wife - with you.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Also, regarding:



> I said the only way I will stay with you is if you cease to contact Larry in any way (talking, phoning walking etc.,). She agreed with one condition. She said she does not want any of our friends to know what has happened. She said she would die of embarrassment and it would cause too much friction with all the neighbors.


She is not in a position to make 'conditional' statements regarding Quagmire. Either she cuts off all contact, or you consider the affair still alive. Any condition she may make means that she is still hanging on to an alternative actions. So her condition is that if you mention the affair to a neighbor, she will go back to Quagmire? Preposterous! A lot of gall, too.

No, you don't have to run about the neighborhood yakking about your wife's indiscretion. This is not particularly a loving thing to do, and its a priority to treat your wife with love. This doesn't mean you can't talk about Quagmire trying to bed your wife. He needs to leave the neighborhood.

No conditions!

Read the article 'The Purpose Of No Contact' on this page: Articles


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

WOW! :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

#1--This is NOT the time to be leaving her alone! I don't care if this is a once-in-a-lifetime trip...demonstrate that she (and your marriage) means more to you than some fun with "buddies" and tell them a personal emergency has arisen at home that you need to stay and deal with. Feel bad about missing it? Sure! But this is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT!

Speaking as someone who was in her shoes, a disloyal spouse needs to spend as much time as possible with the loyal spouse. I would encourage you to ask for vacation time and take her away somewhere just the two of you. Do things that are fun but not "relationship" or necessarily sexy--like go bowling or to a concert. Help her remember that you are a fun person to be with. 

#2--Her "conditions" are ridiculous. Don't tell the neighbors... I would see if she contacts him again. If she does all bets are off. If not it would be a nice thing to not embarrass her more than she is but is sure isn't a requirement! And let me see "earn more money but work fewer hours and I don't have to do any work..." :rofl: What planet is she living on? That isn't even realistic.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

How are you holding up?

I say tell the neighbors and then go away. 

Not buying the belief that now is the time to demonstrate _your_commitment. All you are doing is giving her enough rope to hang herself if she chooses to. Her list of 'wants' is nothing short of asinine under the circumstances. Classic ... she wants you to make more money, buy a bigger house, but not work so much. Sadly, I know this story because I lived it too. So if you want her to not f*ck someone else, you better get that resume out there ... give me a break.

I really still don't have a solid idea of where you stand. Telling your wife that you were turned on just makes it all the more bizarre. Obviously she thinks so too.


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

Dude, I read through most of this thread and wow. You are one crazy guy. 

I don't mean to be offensive but you are an idiot. You knew way before you caught them in the act that there were things going on. I know it's harsh but you should have listened to everyone here that told you to put your foot down and man up. Now after you catch her you're about to leave for a guys weekend? I know it sounds harsh but if you go that makes you an idiot! Leave her alone?? My god. 

And even if there was some part of you that was aroused by seeing her with him you should not have said a damn word. You just basically told her that you really didn't mind so much, in fact you kind of enjoy other guys making out with your wife!!

I'm really sorry this happened to you but man, you've made and are continuing to make a lot of bad choices. For your sake and your marriage's sake I hope you change your tune. 

She wants you to make $50k more a year and have a higher standard of living in order to be happy? first off, in case she's living in an effing cave and hasn't noticed, this is one of the worst economies in many decades. So that's easier said then done. Second, material things aren't going to make her happy. Unless you're living like poor folk right now my guess is the more money you might earn, the more she'll want. Second, if she really loves you and wants to be with you that shouldn't matter. As long as you are providing a decent income, giving the family a roof over their heads, food on the table, etc. that should be more then good enough. That is so not what marriage is about. 

It would be really good if you were involved in a church and could talk to a pastor with her. It's way past time for a therapist, she should be in there pronto with you. 

You need to put your foot down about a few other things. Explain that you're going to have open access to all her e-mail accounts, facebook, myspace, etc, her cell phone and text message records, call history, etc. You explain in very clear terms that it's going to take a long time for her to win your trust back (oh wait, you just left for the weekend after you caught her almost having sex with a guy so she's probably not taking you seriously anyway...) But maybe if you take a stand and let her know that this is what's required and that you won't trust her blindly, not for a while and she's going to have to work at it.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for all of your replies (even the harsh ones!). I didn't read all of these until today (Mon) so I guess its a mute point. I did go on the weekend. The last thing I wanted to do was see her, so the vacation sort of worked out well. I needed some time away. My wife could not go anywhere without the kids, nor could she have any contact with Larry. She did not contact him at all over the weekend (I know this by checking her cell phone, listening to our phone recordings that she does not know about, and the fact that the kids were not ever left alone). In fact, she called me about 8 times over the weekend to see how I was doing. I was very short with her (because of my anger) and basically just answered her questions. When I came home we made our first appointment with a marriage counsler which we will go to Tuesday evening. She said she does want to make the marriage work and agreed to let me check her phone anytime I wanted (I can do that anyway because I pay the bill on it). I am also allowed to look at her computer anytime I wish. I did agree not to talk about this with the neighbors for the time being (I don't see how it would help our marriage) but only if she does not have any type of contact with Larry, if she does, all bets are off. I left a note in Larry's mailbox telling him that my wife does not want any type of contact with him and to not try and contact her. I told my wife about it, and she was upset that I did this, but understood why. For the time being (don't know for how long) I told her other than work, she cannot go anywhere without one of the kids. She said she would agree to it for now, but eventually this would have to change. We have many issues to both work on. I know it won't be easy, and I'm not sure it will even work out. My wife is unhappy with her life. She basically does not want to work, or do much housework, she just wants to be a mom. We do live in a small house, but in a nice neighborhood. She has a 5 year old Focus, and I do about 90% of the household work, even though I pay for 95% of the bills. She does buy the kids clothes, I don't do that. She also pays for times when she gets her nails done, etc. She believes it is my place to pay the bills in our household, and whatever money she makes is up to her to decide on how to spend it. This is our main area of disagreement. I think that we do not live in the 1950's any longer and it should be a joint venture when it comes to paying the bills, and doing the housework. As a side note I also agree that I should not have told my wife the fact that it aroused my seeing her kiss Larry. It has always been a fantasy of mine to see her with another man, so I guess I sort of got my wish (although not the way I wanted it to happen at all)_. I regret telling her that one. Anyways, we have joint counseling tomorrow. Should be interesting. Larry has been scarce this weekend and from what I understand, no one has even seen his car in the driveway. I'll fill you all in tomorrow on what happens. Thanks again for all the advice.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi Russ - 

You were blessed this weekend in that it did not end in disaster. I'd give kudos to your wife on several points:

1) She remained faithful in a very difficult time

2) She is willing to work on the marriage and indeed has shown that to be a fact.

Again, I advise that you both take these quizzes - you'll be amazed at what you find out - and how much you two can accopmplish together:

Emotional Needs Questionnaire

and 

Love Busters Questionnaire

Very simple, very easy to use, and very insightful. Even if YOU don't want to take them - show them to your wife...she will appreciate them. 

Much of what your wife is saying right now is what is known as 'fog' talk - it will clear up as time gets between her and the affair. So I would not take a lot of it with absolute certainty - it will be modified over time. 

Better to work on your part in the marriage right now - treat her with love and respect.

That is, if you are serious about saving your marriage.


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## Banff (Feb 8, 2010)

You sound a lot like me four months ago -- before I knew what actually happened. From everything you have described things have already gone way beyond what you are willing to believe. I was in denial that any thing realy bad was possible, that it was all just "friend" stuff. Because I didn't want to believe... But my gut was telling me something else -- so at a risk of seeming paranoid I dug deeper and found the mother load. I am sorry to say this - but you need to look very carefully. Best of luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Wow. How can this possibly work when:

- She thinks that your money is family money and her money is purely for her. 
- And she shouldn't have to work at all, and when she does quit her job, you STILL NEED to do the housework for her
- And you MUST make lots and lots more money so you can pay for the greatly improved lifestyle she expects but has zero desire to help you fund. 
- Including you should have a bigger house and 
- On top of this she is not sexually attracted to you, which is why she was so fascinated by Larry
- And she was basically bullying you into letting her cheat on you with a neighbor in a very blatant way

She seems to have a giant princess complex, where did it come from?








russ101 said:


> Thanks for all of your replies (even the harsh ones!). I didn't read all of these until today (Mon) so I guess its a mute point. I did go on the weekend. The last thing I wanted to do was see her, so the vacation sort of worked out well. I needed some time away. My wife could not go anywhere without the kids, nor could she have any contact with Larry. She did not contact him at all over the weekend (I know this by checking her cell phone, listening to our phone recordings that she does not know about, and the fact that the kids were not ever left alone). In fact, she called me about 8 times over the weekend to see how I was doing. I was very short with her (because of my anger) and basically just answered her questions. When I came home we made our first appointment with a marriage counsler which we will go to Tuesday evening. She said she does want to make the marriage work and agreed to let me check her phone anytime I wanted (I can do that anyway because I pay the bill on it). I am also allowed to look at her computer anytime I wish. I did agree not to talk about this with the neighbors for the time being (I don't see how it would help our marriage) but only if she does not have any type of contact with Larry, if she does, all bets are off. I left a note in Larry's mailbox telling him that my wife does not want any type of contact with him and to not try and contact her. I told my wife about it, and she was upset that I did this, but understood why. For the time being (don't know for how long) I told her other than work, she cannot go anywhere without one of the kids. She said she would agree to it for now, but eventually this would have to change. We have many issues to both work on. I know it won't be easy, and I'm not sure it will even work out. My wife is unhappy with her life. She basically does not want to work, or do much housework, she just wants to be a mom. We do live in a small house, but in a nice neighborhood. She has a 5 year old Focus, and I do about 90% of the household work, even though I pay for 95% of the bills. She does buy the kids clothes, I don't do that. She also pays for times when she gets her nails done, etc. She believes it is my place to pay the bills in our household, and whatever money she makes is up to her to decide on how to spend it. This is our main area of disagreement. I think that we do not live in the 1950's any longer and it should be a joint venture when it comes to paying the bills, and doing the housework. As a side note I also agree that I should not have told my wife the fact that it aroused my seeing her kiss Larry. It has always been a fantasy of mine to see her with another man, so I guess I sort of got my wish (although not the way I wanted it to happen at all)_. I regret telling her that one.  Anyways, we have joint counseling tomorrow. Should be interesting. Larry has been scarce this weekend and from what I understand, no one has even seen his car in the driveway. I'll fill you all in tomorrow on what happens. Thanks again for all the advice.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

We went to counseling on Tue. She basically told the counseler that she is not sure if we should be together. She said I promised her a much better lifestyle by now when we got married. She said she needs to figure out what she wants and in the meantime she has decided to sleep in our guest bedroom. She told the counseler that what she did with Larry was a mistake and that she and I were drifting apart for years and he was just something that happened because he gave her something emotional that I don't give her. She spent most of the hour just basically bashing me. I gave the counsler a list of all the things I do in the relationship and all that she does (my list was about 95% of all bills and 95% of all housework). He said before we can work on the list we need to take care of us. My wife said right now she is not sure if she even wants to try. The fact that she has now moved into a seperate bedroom is to me, the first step in divorce. I am going to prepare as if we are heading towards divorce. I want to be as financially ready (without breaking the law) as I can be. I am depressed, it doesn't look good. Our next meeting is next Tuesday. She still insists that she is not even talking to Larry, and as near as I can tell (I am still keeping tabs on her) she is being honest with me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Russ,
My first dating filter was obviously looks. But my second was always money. My wife had modest financial expectations and is not a lazy person herself. I have exceeded her financial expectations which has made money a non issue for us. And that has meant we could focus on all the real stuff. 

The fact your wife was only having sex with you once a month, and her total focus on being a princess - you will never make her happy and so she will never try to make YOU happy. 




russ101 said:


> We went to counseling on Tue. She basically told the counseler that she is not sure if we should be together. She said I promised her a much better lifestyle by now when we got married. She said she needs to figure out what she wants and in the meantime she has decided to sleep in our guest bedroom. She told the counseler that what she did with Larry was a mistake and that she and I were drifting apart for years and he was just something that happened because he gave her something emotional that I don't give her. She spent most of the hour just basically bashing me. I gave the counsler a list of all the things I do in the relationship and all that she does (my list was about 95% of all bills and 95% of all housework). He said before we can work on the list we need to take care of us. My wife said right now she is not sure if she even wants to try. The fact that she has now moved into a seperate bedroom is to me, the first step in divorce. I am going to prepare as if we are heading towards divorce. I want to be as financially ready (without breaking the law) as I can be. I am depressed, it doesn't look good. Our next meeting is next Tuesday. She still insists that she is not even talking to Larry, and as near as I can tell (I am still keeping tabs on her) she is being honest with me.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

What is your goal here, Russ? Is it to save your marriage, or to prove how right you are and how wrong she is?



> We went to counseling on Tue. She basically told the counseler that she is not sure if we should be together. She said I promised her a much better lifestyle by now when we got married. She said she needs to figure out what she wants and in the meantime she has decided to sleep in our guest bedroom. .....etc...


Russ - as I pointed out before, your wife is filtering things through a fog. It will clear up over time and you'll get more honest answers from her. Going to the counselor is a good start, and the counselor is right you need to take care of 'us' before you work on that list. 

Your list is a contentious 'tit-for-tat' itemization that is more of a means of showing how 'wrong' your wife is, and how 'innocent' you are than it is in helping your marriage. The only thing it will do is damage your relationship more. It may be completely factual - but it is not those facts that are bothering your wife right now. There is much more to the issue. Stop fighting with her!

And I completely disagree with another poster on this thread: your wife is not showing any signs of 'princess' behavior. She is showing signs of the fog of an affair. She is looking for justification for why she feels the way she does right now. She wants to be right about it. 

But here is a biggie: what she is saying contains a kernel of the truth. You should be trying to hear what she is really saying. 

_Again_ I am going to recommend that you try the questionnaires I posted before. Your wife would be willing to take them if you told her that you wanted to take them to find out where you've been at fault in the troubles you are having. Once she starts talking about the issues addressed, you'll find that suddenly your marriage will start to recover. 

But if you keep trying to disprove her objections, all you are doing is fueling her desire to get away from you.

No, sleeping in the spare bedroom is not heading toward a divorce. Let her do it. Go out of your way to make her feel safe in your house. Start romancing her. 

Read this: 

Basic concepts

And the quizzes:

Emotional Needs Quiz

Love Busters Quiz


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tane,
Why do you say this is the fog of the affair? I am confused by that viewpoint. Russ made it very clear his wife had major issues with him way before this affair started. 

Her comments about him/her lifestyle might be skewed by the fog of the affair. HOWEVER - right now when she should be feeling guilty for totally screwing him over she is instead telling him he sucks as a provider and hasn't delivered on his promises. 

If everything had been GOOD before the affair I might think you have a point. But it wasn't - she was clearly very unhappy with him back then. Why do you think it is healthy for a man to suck up to a woman who does not love/respect him? 

I have been married one time and for 20 years and take marriage very seriously. But a man cannot remain a man and tolerate this type treatment. She neither loves nor respects him and THAT was the case before she ever met the neighbor. 

Sex once a month at their age means something very powerful. It screams I am not that into you. 



Tanelornpete said:


> What is your goal here, Russ? Is it to save your marriage, or to prove how right you are and how wrong she is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it's a combination of both. Some women just expect to be spoiled; it's how they're raised. I remember a coworker telling me that she helped her husband do yardwork: she'd get a lawn chair and a tea, and sit out on the driveway while he mowed. In her mind, just 'sacrificing' by being out there was her helping him. That's not something you can fix, typically.

That said, she is very MUCH speaking in the fog. The instant an affair starts, everything the spouse does is wrong; everything he ever DID was wrong; she just never told him so as not to hurt him - yeah, right; let's just forget all those happy holidays and trips and whatever, it was all faked.

The bad thing is, you can't convince the foggy person that this is happening. To THEM, this reasoning is real. That's why they call it a fog - it clears away from before their eyes VERY slowly, one water drop at a time, until they see the devastation lying all around them. While still foggy, they can't see it, the spouse's pain, the misery all around (even with kids - the fog is firmly stuck in front of their eyes. NOTHING will get through it. Until it does.

That's why the best thing russ can do right now is listen to tanelorn and get those questionnaires, read the material, and understand what he's dealing with. This is a marathon, not a sprint. She won't just wake up tomorrow and say 'oh forgive me!' At the same time, the betrayed spouse needs to step back and quit listening to what she says because it's all still fog-related. Make a plan, be the most amazing spouse he can be for the time being, set a date for when you simply won't deal with it any more and move out, and hope she sees the light before then. This 'sucking up' is a temporary situation; they recommend that you only do it for a few weeks or months, all this work with no expectations, and then separate if she doesn't come around, so you don't grow to hate her.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Why do you say this is the fog of the affair? I am confused by that viewpoint. Russ made it very clear his wife had major issues with him way before this affair started.


This is very true - there were issues before the affair started. In fact, the affair STARTED because of issues. This affair did not start in a vacuum - as in all parts of marriage, both partners have a definite part in creating the environment in which this affair occurred.

This in no way excuses her choice to have an affair. She could just as easily have made another choice.



> Her comments about him/her lifestyle might be skewed by the fog of the affair.


That's exactly what I am saying. Until that fog is entirely gone, she won't be accurately stating her needs - the things in which there is weakness in the marriage.



> HOWEVER - right now when she should be feeling guilty for totally screwing him over she is instead telling him he sucks as a provider and hasn't delivered on his promises.


So true. She SHOULD be feeling guilty (there is no reason to believe she does not) and she SHOULD be doing things differently. However, SHOULD is not the same as IS DOING. It would be nice, but its not happening yet. She SHOULD not have gotten herself into an affair. Russ SHOULD have been paying more attention to her complaints earlier, and worked with her to find realistic solutions. 

Till the fog is gone, that is not as likely to happen. His job ("should" he decide to accept it) is not to react to things that are spoken out of the fog, but to things that are real. And that cannot happen unless the fog is gone. Until then, he is going to hear things quite skewed. 



> If everything had been GOOD before the affair I might think you have a point. But it wasn't - she was clearly very unhappy with him back then. Why do you think it is healthy for a man to suck up to a woman who does not love/respect him?


If things had been good before the affair, _the affair would not have happened._ The point is that there are issues (which she is, _at the moment_ magnifying, skewing, twisting, etc.) that should be addressed. Should have been addressed long ago. This happens in lots of marriages, though! Its the main reason affairs occur.

No, I do not think it is healthy for a man to 'suck up' to a woman who does not love/respect him. Nor do I think the reverse is any more acceptable. A woman should not 'suck up' to someone who does not lover her either. Works both ways. 

I do expect him to love/respect her. This includes the idea that he is part of the problem in the marriage. He has needs in the marriage - why is it so difficult to assume that she does as well? 

He _may_ have the idea that the things HE has done are the things that show her love - but she may not see this at all. It may be that she thinks the things he does are nice - but still wonder why he doesn't love her - all the while he is thinking that all the things he does ARE showing her love. And the same in reverse. 

Because both parties tend to ASSUME what the other needs and wants, etc., all the while feeling left out and unloved, bad things are bound to occur. And unless they clarify the points between themselves - learn what each other holds to be the prime causes of love, they will lose the love they have.



> I have been married one time and for 20 years and take marriage very seriously. But a man cannot remain a man and tolerate this type treatment. She neither loves nor respects him and THAT was the case before she ever met the neighbor.


Yes, that was the case before she met Quagmire. No one objects to this observation. However, consider this carefully:

Did Russ _really _marry a woman who did not love him, who did not have sex with him, who did not respect him? What kind of fool was he? What kind of woman would undergo such a major commitment to someone she could not stand - unless he were incredibly wealthy and likely to die off with a great will designed just for her! 

Or were things different when they married? If so: *WHAT HAPPENED?*

It is absolutely wrong to assume perfection on Russ's part, and wholehearted degenerate imperfection on her part. Did she suddenly make a conscious decision to become the queen of emasculative torture, randomly, arbitrarily? Or (much more likely) did things occur in the marriage that cause a parting of ways?



> Sex once a month at their age means something very powerful. It screams I am not that into you.


Yes it does. Its a very clear warning sign that something is wrong. And since this is clear, there are several steps that must be taken: 

first, determine that the lack of sex drive is not a physical impairment. 

Second, determine factors in the marriage that are causing this rift. And to do that, you need to ask your partner. You cannot ever assume. 

Something changed in there! For most women sex is a response to emotional closeness. And Russ has shown that he will simply up and leave at moments when it would be more prudent to stay with her. My guess is that this is a regular pattern - that Russ tended to take her for granted, and put very little effort into making sure she felt emotionally secure. And he is paying the price now. 

What happens? - Another guy fills in that need! While her response may be immoral, it is also understandable. 

If she was this 'princess' then do you not suppose that her affair would have been with a 'sugar daddy' - someone to fill her need? Instead, she found a guy willing to spend time with her, and listen to her (even if he had ulterior motives - things she conveniently chose to ignore.) She was getting something she did not at home - and it was not tons of cash. So no, not a 'princess complex.'

She SHOULD have avoided the temptation - but this could also be a wake up call to Russ to be more attentive. Hence my suggestion of taking the quizzes. 

Moreover - SHE is not here. HE _is_ - and he is the one who can work on HIS part of the marriage. Hence, any advice given is for HIS benefit. It may be that this marriage may fail - but then - would it not be to his benefit to be the kind of man who is attentive to the needs of a woman anyway? Myhaps he'll meet another someday...

Or, better - he'll work hard on this marriage, honoring his commitment 'for better or worse' and see the thing steer toward better waters.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

By the way - I agree with turnera - I just don't call it 'sucking up' - it's just doing what you should have done all along...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tane,
That all makes sense. Just one point I wish to clarify. I try hard to be gender neutral, meaning if you switched their genders I hope/believe I would be saying the exact same things to her. 

Your point about the change that has occurred from the point of marriage is absolutely valid and I think it will help him to go through the process you suggest no matter what the outcome because he will likely learn a lot more about what he could do to be a better spouse even if - sadly - he ends up taking that knowledge to his next marriage. 

Russ - go through this process. And own up to whatever your contributions were. For instance if you set your wifes expectations for lifestyle higher than you have delivered - you need to address that. 

I think what these other folks are saying is that for now go through the process - assume a lot of what she says may be a pure side effect of her being in the fog, don't over react to it, and work on you. 




Tanelornpete said:


> This is very true - there were issues before the affair started. In fact, the affair STARTED because of issues. This affair did not start in a vacuum - as in all parts of marriage, both partners have a definite part in creating the environment in which this affair occurred.
> 
> This in no way excuses her choice to have an affair. She could just as easily have made another choice.
> 
> ...


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Your wife is spoiled rotten. I think you're right in being prepared.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> That all makes sense. Just one point I wish to clarify. I try hard to be gender neutral, meaning if you switched their genders I hope/believe I would be saying the exact same things to her.


Awesome - I'll keep that in mind when I read your posts! (Good method to use, by the way.)


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Well, something very weird happened last night. My wife came to bed with me, without me saying anything, and after several nights sleeping in our guest bedroom. Not only that, but she woke me up (I went to bed much earlier than her) so we could have sex (she still won't kiss me though). It was very good and I didn't want to ask her why she did that, I just went with it and said nothing. Today before I went to work she acted like there was nothing wrong between us and we talked as if it were just another day. I am very confused now! One minute she says she doesn't know if she wants to work on our marriage, and the next minute she is acting as if nothing ever happened. What could she possibly be thinking? Ladies, some words of wisdom? I really don't know what my next step should be. I am continuing to monitor her and as near as I can tell, she is still not having any contact with Larry. As a matter of fact, I have not even seen him in several days. His car is not ever even in his driveway. I want our marriage to work. I have too much invested in this relationship, but I know that it takes two to make it work. If one partner doesn't want to work on it, it won't work. My problem is, does she want this to work or not? Do I bring it up? Help.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's how I would be if I suddenly decided to _consider_ choosing you, and was in her shoes. I'd just want the whole thing to go away, and start showing you in little ways I'm back, without having to come out and say it. Let her do it that way. She'll appreciate you for it. NO relationship talk!


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks turnera, I thought it was best to not do anything to rock the boat as it were. Maybe doing nothing is sometimes the best medicine. We'll see how the weekend goes though. As I said, sometimes she does a complete 180 turn on behavior that I can't explain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Coming out of an affair IS a weird experience (so I've been told). It's fits and starts, a rollercoaster ride, because one minute you have clarity, the next instant, you're back in the fog and hating your spouse. If the OM is gone, though, and you're doing all the right things, it would start to feel 'natural' to her to start leaning back on you. But still, in fits and starts.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> That's how I would be if I suddenly decided to consider choosing you, and was in her shoes. I'd just want the whole thing to go away, and start showing you in little ways I'm back, without having to come out and say it. Let her do it that way. She'll appreciate you for it. NO relationship talk!


There is a lot of wisdom here - it goes along with the 'take it slowly and easily' advice. 



> Thanks turnera, I thought it was best to not do anything to rock the boat as it were. Maybe doing nothing is sometimes the best medicine. We'll see how the weekend goes though. As I said, sometimes she does a complete 180 turn on behavior that I can't explain.


The 180's will happen for a while, with less and less frequency. While you are going though this stage of recovery - keep watching yourself. Pay attention to how you interact with her. Pay close attention to your internal reactions to things she does or says. If she does something that irritates or delights you - instead of simply feeling it and reacting - take some time to ask yourself 'WHY did this response occur?'

When she does pull a 180 - look at what happened just before: did you say or do something that had an effect on her? It's possible (one reason I advise doing the quizzes linked above) that you have just engaged in something that has dumped some water on the fires of your love. By understanding the concepts of 'love busters' (what we call extinguishers) you may be able to piece together some of the things you have done in that past that have also contributed to the troubles in your marriage - and avoid them in the future. 

Of course, there is also the reality that she is still going through a withdrawal period from her affair, and will on occasion will 'look back' - wandering 'what may have been.' Affairs are addictive, and addictions are sometimes difficult to get over.

By the same token - understanding what the 'kindlers' are (emotional needs) you can begin to piece together the things that mean the most to your wife.

This is the time when what has been called 'sucking up' has to be done. For a while, you are the one most seriously working on your marriage. Your wife is hoping things will become safer for her, that things will run smoothly. You, on the other hand, have done some homework - you've learned some new steps to make a better and stronger relationship - and you may be the only person purposefully doing them right now (your wife will inadvertently - for example, in coming to bed last night...)

It would still be indescribably helpful for your marriage to get her involved in actively working on your relationship. When she brings something about your relationship up, take the opportunity to say something like - 'oh - you know what? I've been thinking about all the things I've done to hurt you and drive you away, and I've been trying to find ways to stop doing that - and I found a really cool questionnaire that gives you a way to let me know - ya want to try it?" Or - "I'd love to find out the things I can do for you that make you feel safe and loved - and I found a cool questionnaire that gives me a way to know what you want - wanna try it?"

The issue is to avoid demanding or manipulating her into 'working' on the marriage. That comes across as controlling - which would drive you away, would it not? Treat her like you want to be treated.


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