# Innocent until proven guilty



## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Innocent until proven guilty.......

Hello and thank you for reading. I am looking for honest answers from neutral people. My dilema regards my husband of 20 years. 

1. Smartphone passworded and changed on a regular basis.
2. Facebook passworded.
3.Computer passworded.
4.Recently on a night out I went to the toilet after him and found him talking to a women from the gym in the coridoor. Who happened to send him a message on whatsapp wishing him Happy Birthday earlier in the year, I asked at the time who is that ? He said just a women from the gym. I asked how she had his number, he gave her it when she asked him if he knew anyone who could fix her laptop (that is his line of work)
5.My gut instinct kicks in, I didnt like the way they where looking at each other.
6.I notice him on whats app a lot and start a mini log, late night and early morning use noticed, and that he was using it over 20 times a day.
7. He went out on a lads night, when was asleep I check his clothing and find a single viagra in his pocket.
8.I confront him in the morning,
I ask "Why did you have a viagra in your pocket" ?
his reply
"I was planning on coming home early and having sex with you, and Im annoyed now that you know I use them" ( he knows that I know hes used them before)
I ask "Who have you been talking to constantly on Whats app"
his reply "no one"
I then ask for his mobile phone and password
He said I could not go through his fone but I could look at it with him. Well i was not happy so I went nuts, he then said ok Ill tell you something and started talking about the woman I saw him talking to in the pub "shes just a friend he sits and have a chat with in the gym ( I have no problems with him talking to other women) and sometimes they chat on Whats app He then goes on to explain that she was out of town on a shopping trip so it proves he didnt take the viagra out with him to take with anyone but me ?
So I ask to see the messages exchanged. THEY WHERE DELETED apparantly to spare my feeling because he didnt want me to feel jealous and cause trouble with her. He said I will take you round her house right now and prove Im not having an affair. I declined.
Guilty or Innocent ?
Many thanks for reading.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Guilty as sin.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Lots of red flags here. I would start investigating and gathering evidence. I am sure someone here will pop in to post some helpful links.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> I ask "Who have you been talking to constantly on Whats app"
> his reply "no one"
> I then ask for his mobile phone and password
> He said I could not go through his fone but I could look at it with him. Well i was not happy so I went nuts, he then said ok Ill tell you something and started talking about the woman I saw him talking to in the pub "shes just a friend he sits and have a chat with in the gym ( I have no problems with him talking to other women) and sometimes they chat on Whats app He then goes on to explain that she was out of town on a shopping trip so it proves he didnt take the viagra out with him to take with anyone but me ?
> ...


I'm sorry you've found yourself on TAM for this reason. Hopefully some of us here can be of help.

Beth, Marriage and Intimate Relationships aren't a criminal court of law. These things are by definition emotional, and not purely rational. If we were going to liken this to a court at all, it would be a civil court, where we rely on a "Preponderance of the Evidence". You're guilty at 51% likelihood, rather than 90%

Your H is obviously having an EA--and it appears almost certain a PA.

Do you have kids? If so, are they young? Grown?

I would start with this thread: CWI--A Strategy. 

There are options for you going forward, and although it doesn't always feel like it, the ball is in your court right now. 

ETA: You may want to ask a Mod to move your post over to the Coping With Infidelity Forum. That place is dedicated to helping people in your situation.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Messages deleted. Just needing his number for laptop but wishing him a happy birthday on an app.. Tells you he can take you to her house? I'm seeing smoke and glittery lights all streaming into red... Exploding red lights.. Nope nope and is he really this stupid?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> I'm sorry you've found yourself on TAM for this reason. Hopefully some of us here can be of help.
> 
> Beth, Marriage and Intimate Relationships aren't a criminal court of law. These things are by definition emotional, and not purely rational. If we were going to liken this to a court at all, it would be a civil court, where we rely on a "Preponderance of the Evidence". You're guilty at 51% likelihood, rather than 90%
> 
> ...


Thank you I will read the thread but I dont know how to ask for this to be moved.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Lots of red flags here. I would start investigating and gathering evidence. I am sure someone here will pop in to post some helpful links.


Thanks I have looked for other evidence but cant find any x


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> Thank you I will read the thread but I dont know how to ask for this to be moved.


 @EleGirl
@Amplexor

I'm sure one of them can help .

ETA: You don't need to do anything since I have already tagged them in this.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> Thanks I have looked for other evidence but cant find any x


Well, before you start looking for any further evidence--and believe me it can be found--I would start with the Strategy Thread and ask yourself:

Do you want to try to save your marriage? Would you rather just divorce, knowing that your H is at least investing emotionally in another woman, and probably physically involved with her?

These are questions only you can answer. 

Do you have kids?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Well, before you start looking for any further evidence--and believe me it can be found--I would start with the Strategy Thread and ask yourself:
> 
> Do you want to try to save your marriage? Would you rather just divorce, knowing that your H is at least investing emotionally in another woman, and probably physically involved with her?
> 
> ...


Hi and thanks,
I am a sahm we have 1 child still in primary, this all started over Christmas and I feel pathetic and useless. I only have one friend who thinks I have to much time on my hands and are looking to much into it, I have told her everything we have been friends since school and she is very loyal to me. But thinks he would never have an affair and that everyone can see he totally adores me. I am going to read the strategy thread just now. If he has cheated thats it for me my marriage will be over. x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have read the very good strategy and I honestly cannot entertain the idea of continuing with the marriage if he has cheated. But how am I going to prove it to myself ? He has everything pass worded. I am a peace seeking person by nature and I am finding the whole thing earth shattering.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There used to be a thread around here all about how to snoop for this stuff - anyone know where it is?

Basically, you will have to do it without him knowing. There are ways to recover deleted texts and messages sometimes. You can use keyloggers to find out passwords on computers, I don't know how you do so with a phone. How tech savvy are you?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh, and your friend? She doesn't sound very helpful. No one EVER thought my husband would cheat either. NO one.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Oh, and your friend? She doesn't sound very helpful. No one EVER thought my husband would cheat either. NO one.


Thanks Im pretty savvy with stuff, my poor mate just doesn't want me to get hurt I guess x


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> I have read the very good strategy and I honestly cannot entertain the idea of continuing with the marriage if he has cheated. But how am I going to prove it to myself ? He has everything pass worded. I am a peace seeking person by nature and I am finding the whole thing earth shattering.


How about a voice activated recorder? Or a friend he does not know spying on him at the gym?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

New_Beginnings said:


> Nope nope and is he really this stupid?


He might not be stupid, but he sure thinks his wife is!



Beth007007 said:


> . But thinks he would never have an affair and that everyone can see he totally adores me.


Fallacy. Loving/adoring a spouse and having an affair behind that spouses back are NOT mutually exclusive. 

The world is littered with betrayed wives their husbands loved and had no intention of leaving. They just wanted to have extra on the side and completely convinced themselves that their affair would never be discovered and never endanger their marriage.

I'm sorry, but your husband is exhibiting every sign of an affair almost as if he's going by the cheaters handbook line by line.

You need to get a VAR. Voice Activated Recorder. Place it in his car, hidden under the seat is the most common place. People in affairs usually talk to their AP's in the car. So, the VAR will activate when he begins talking and record the conversation. After a few days or so, you can retrieve the VAR and listen. If you find something, there ya go. If not, give it another few rounds to be sure.

Also, do you have access to his phone bill online? If you see a lot of calls to a certain number or a lot of texts to a certain number, call it from a friends phone and see who answers. You can always "OOPS! Wrong number. Have a nice day!" and hang up.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

SecondTime'Round said:


> How about a voice activated recorder? Or a friend he does not know spying on him at the gym?


Ooo thanks for this, I dont know anyone at his gym and I dont have anyone who could go and watch him but a recorder sounds good I could hide one in his car under the seat or would it be clear enough to hear ?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think he's guilty. He's got a relationship going with this other woman.

Here is the thread that has been cited. Get some VARs and find out the truth:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> He might not be stupid, but he sure thinks his wife is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for this, its hard reading what I know in my head but my heart says no way he adores me, I am going to buy a VAR as soon as I can wont be overnight though will need to find some money unfortunately. x.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

What if he has ended it ? That would be wasted money I couldnt afford.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> There used to be a thread around here all about how to snoop for this stuff - anyone know where it is?


Here it is: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Guilty, but you shouldn't have let him know that you were suspecious until you have all the information you needed to prove that he definitely was involved with this woman. You should have pulled the phone records, put a VAR in his car etc. Now that he knows that you're onto to him, he will be alot more careful.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> Thank you very much for this, its hard reading what I know in my head but my heart says no way he adores me, I am going to buy a VAR as soon as I can wont be overnight though will need to find some money unfortunately. x.


Instinct is telling you he's having an affair. Your intellect knows instinct is probably correct because of his behavior. But your emotional side is trying to hide like a frightened child because the truth is painful. No shame in that. Many BS feel the same way. Especially in otherwise decent marriages.

Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned is that this doesn't have to be the end of your marriage. There is a popular saying here for those dealing with infidelity, "You have to be prepared to end your marriage to save it."

The idea is to gather evidence, confront when you have the evidence you need, and then take a stance. Play hardball. Either he'll be shocked out of his "affair fog" and realize what he stands to lose, be remorseful, and be willing to be completely transparent and do every and anything to save the marriage or he won't. But the beauty is that YOU will be in the drivers seat. YOU will be the one who decides ultimately if you want to walk or reconcile.

You don't have to make that decision immediately. It's a good idea to take some time, process, work through the immediate emotional turmoil, and then make a choice.



Beth007007 said:


> What if he has ended it ? That would be wasted money I couldnt afford.


VAR's come in a variety of prices, some as low as $20. But if budget is an issues you can always get some help from the techies on the forums. There are ways that don't cost a penny to get evidence. You just have to be willing to be sneaky.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> Guilty, but you shouldn't have let him know that you were suspecious until you have all the information you needed to prove that he definitely was involved with this woman. You should have pulled the phone records, put a VAR in his car etc. Now that he knows that you're onto to him, he will be alot more careful.


YES! Now that he knows you are suspicious, he'll be even more cautious fora time. BUT, human nature being what it is, that won't last forever. A couple weeks of you acting like you believe every word out his mouth should lull him into making mistakes again.

Watch. Wait. Gather evidence. Don't listen to what he says so much as what he does.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

hes in cant stay x


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Here it is: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


 @Beth007007 If you really feel that more evidence is necessary, then this is the thread to go to... If you can live without any more evidence, and go forward, you may want to do that.

Just a warning, from watching my dad catch my stepmom cheating on him, you may not want to read the emails / texts / messages between them. It killed a part of my dad's soul when he did.

Sometimes it's best to have someone else go through it for you... Same goes for VAR recordings. We didn't use a VAR (never occurred to me, and that was years before I found TAM) to help my dad find out. But if we had, listening to it would have been worse on him than reading the messages.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

New_Beginnings said:


> Messages deleted. Just needing his number for laptop but wishing him a happy birthday on an app.. Tells you he can take you to her house? I'm seeing smoke and glittery lights all streaming into red... Exploding red lights.. Nope nope and is he really this stupid?


Yeah....how does he know where she lives???? :|


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Beth007007 said:


> What if he has ended it ? That would be wasted money I couldnt afford.


If he's ended this one, and thinks he's gotten away with it, chances are he's just biding his time till you quit being suspicious, then he'll be at it again with someone else, or back with the same person. You asking him all those questions might have ended it for now, (or maybe not - we have no way of knowing) but guaranteed - GUARANTEED - he will start up again sooner or later.

Get the VAR and figure out how to snoop on his phone when he's asleep or something, then wait for him to prove it to you. He IS up to no good - you know he is.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Beth007007 said:


> I then ask for his mobile phone and password
> He said I could not go through his fone but I could look at it with him. .


As most have said, there are lots of red flags here. The only way to turn those red flags is to communicate. Otherwise, trust is going to be eliminated from both sides of your relationship. Why are you opposed to going through his phone with him?

My wife snooped me years ago, when I first started writing a blog. When one writes a blog, they can tag a blog with a word that brings that blog up when someone does a search for that topic. I wanted my wife to read my blog, mainly because I was very proud of a lot of the articles that I had written, but also because she was suspicious of a place where I went but she did not. In my mind, she would be more comfortable once she was familiar with the blog medium. Instead, she went there without me and on a witch hunt, advised by one of her sisters to look for tag words. She searched for words she thought might be incriminating and read those blogs.

I came home one evening, turned on our PC and printer. The printer started to spit out blogs that my wife had attempted to print. I was devastated, felt totally violated. I wanted to share what I thought was a good thing with my wife. Instead it turned into a very bad situation, one that sent us to counseling, one that brought up the word 'divorce' in our marriage for the first time ever.

Be careful. Communicate. Give him the chance to show you. It sounds like there are plenty of alarms, but basically you are making yourself the bad one by snooping him.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> Yeah....how does he know where she lives???? :|


Maybe he went to her place to fix her laptop 
Joking aside, OP read the Standard Evidence thread and then go from there. Try to act normal around your husband because now he knows you're suspicious and will take the affair underground (if he's cheating). You want him to think that you know nothing and suspect nothing so he can relax and become sloppy again. Open your eyes and ears and plant some VARs and wait.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

Start thinking about what you will do once you see proof that he's cheating on you.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Instinct is telling you he's having an affair. Your intellect knows instinct is probably correct because of his behavior. But your emotional side is trying to hide like a frightened child because the truth is painful. No shame in that. Many BS feel the same way. Especially in otherwise decent marriages.
> 
> Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned is that this doesn't have to be the end of your marriage. There is a popular saying here for those dealing with infidelity, "You have to be prepared to end your marriage to save it."
> 
> ...


Thank you x Please can someone help me get evidence I am very prepared to be sneaky.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> @Beth007007 If you really feel that more evidence is necessary, then this is the thread to go to... If you can live without any more evidence, and go forward, you may want to do that.
> 
> Just a warning, from watching my dad catch my stepmom cheating on him, you may not want to read the emails / texts / messages between them. It killed a part of my dad's soul when he did.
> 
> Sometimes it's best to have someone else go through it for you... Same goes for VAR recordings. We didn't use a VAR (never occurred to me, and that was years before I found TAM) to help my dad find out. But if we had, listening to it would have been worse on him than reading the messages.


Thanks I dont think its possible to be hurt anymore x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Popcorn2015 said:


> Start thinking about what you will do once you see proof that he's cheating on you.


I having been thinking about this alot, but dont feel like doing anything practical till I have the proof x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Annie123 said:


> Maybe he went to her place to fix her laptop
> Joking aside, OP read the Standard Evidence thread and then go from there. Try to act normal around your husband because now he knows you're suspicious and will take the affair underground (if he's cheating). You want him to think that you know nothing and suspect nothing so he can relax and become sloppy again. Open your eyes and ears and plant some VARs and wait.


That is exactly what I thought, how does he know where she lives.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The legal standard here, in your H's case, is simply "preponderance of the evidence," in which case, a reasonable person would examine the evidence as such and say that "he is guiltier than hell!"

Either he "comes clean," or you go see a lawyer to assess your legal rights!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *The legal standard here, in your H's case, is simply "preponderance of the evidence," in which case, a reasonable person would examine the evidence as such and say that "he is guiltier than hell!"
> 
> Either he "comes clean," or you go see a lawyer to assess your legal rights!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I have just spent an hour reading the evidence thread its brilliant, and really opened my eyes, I'm know he has cheated my gut is screaming at me. Im now thinking of downloading software to recover deleted messages as well as getting aa VAR. My friend has lent me some money x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hi everyone, 
I have got myself a brand new VAR, I have also downloaded a phone recovery programme I have used this on my phone with great success and it bypasses my password, I have had a sti check.
I am hoping somebody could sign post me to a list of practical tip regarding money housing rights etc 
Many many thanks for ALL the help received.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It is possible for a marriage to continue even to thrive after a while, after cheating.

It involves a good deal of hard graft, however. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> It is possible for a marriage to continue even to thrive after a while, after cheating.
> 
> It involves a good deal of hard graft, however.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know but I don't think I ever trusted him, hes always had a wandering eye and some things he has said in the past makes me wonder if he has respect for women in general.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Nothing about his story sounds right at all, I would have had him drive me to her house then I would know where she lived to go by there myself when he was out with the guys. I do not believe the viagra story, if that was true he could have taken it when he got home no need to carry in his pocket to the pub. 

He is up to no good, try to catch him entering his password on his devices, if you can. Is there a way for you to start going to the gym with him, and ruin his little conversations with this woman? Or show up there unexpectedly? 

It sound slike he is dong a lot of lying.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I have got myself a brand new VAR, I have also downloaded a phone recovery programme I have used this on my phone with great success and it bypasses my password, I have had a sti check.
> I am hoping somebody could sign post me to a list of practical tip regarding money housing rights etc
> Many many thanks for ALL the help received.


A lot of that kind of advice is jurisdiction dependent. A local attorney will have the most knowledge, but it sounds like money is an issue. Are you from the US? Does your husband not let you have any money or access to any bank accounts?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have no intention of confronting this woman. He is the cheat. I do not wish to go to the gym with him either. I just want 100% proof so he will leave the family home, we have a joint mortgage and until I can present him with proof I have no choice. I don't hhave any saved money and this was my home originally so Im not moving. Im stuck in limbo till I get. I know I sound crazy but that's just the way I am.
Thanks though it does mean a lot x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> A lot of that kind of advice is jurisdiction dependent. A local attorney will have the most knowledge, but it sounds like money is an issue. Are you from the US? Does your husband not let you have any money or access to any bank accounts?


I live in the UK but this site is amazing thats why I posted here. He has the savings in his account I have no access to them, he gives me a good amount for housekeeping.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You don't sound the slightest bit crazy. Try to discipline yourself to be as cold-blooded as possible. Get your evidence and make plans. Keep your eyes on the prize, which is the quality of YOUR life. Keep yourself busy with daily plans that move things forward for yourself - make an appointment to be tested for STIs; arrange a legal consultation; make sure you have your half of the money in a safe place that only you can access; eat healthy foods and try to stay away from alcohol; exercise and take care of your appearance.

If you stay as methodical and determined as possible, you will be acting from a position of strength, which, in my opinion, you absolutely need when your spouse is lying and cheating.

So, make a cogent plan for how you will proceed in the next month. Get your evidence and get your ducks in line. You will feel much better for the control and you will be taking care of your interests, which is only right.


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## Qwtyo (Feb 7, 2016)

Depending on his intelligence and yours as well, having the benefit of doubt is going to play in his favor. If you buy the story given, then more than likely be is going to feel that he's one step ahead. I never realized how obvious some of my behavior was when I was doing this. I made other excuses to counter her claims. I got to a point where I was one step ahead of her but it came with a huge psychological tole. I could not do the constant thinking ahead. Be it guilt, paranoia, it wrecked me from inside out. I actually thought about the phone issue. In great detail. My problem was when she would need to use my phone at some random time. I let my guard down on that one. I knew which apps used data and found the ones that left no trace on the phone record. Deleted the app everyday. I still slipped up at times by falling asleep. Had she looked, I would have been toast. There is really no reason to hide anything. As a man or husband, I have to accept certain female insecurities and intuitions. I don't see it as an invasion of privacy anymore as much as I now need to prove that I'm not unfaithful. So I don't keep silly things on my phone and definitely don't chat with women online. My advice to anyone who suspects..... Confront the issue head on. Don't let him bail out and have time to think. Monitor his reactions and excuses. This is a time when instinct kicks in and we try to take control. If nothing comes of that and you still think beyond a reasonable doubt, let it ride. I guarantee he will get comfortable and think he has the upper hand. Unless he has thought things out. We do stupid **** that woman notice. Little subtle changes that we don't think you notice. Appearance, distraction, attitude. Playing stupid and innocent. We are idiots. I was so wrapped up in the feeling of the affair, I was oblivious to the crap I made completely obvious. In this day and age, hiding an affair is almost impossible if you're using technology in the home. As far as phones go, if you think you know something beyond a reasonable doubt. Fake an emergency and ask to use his phone. If he's hiding something, he will freak out. Hell, act like you have to leave and take off in the car. Then look at the phone. He won't have time to cover his tracks that way. When my wife would ask to use the phone, I would always fumble like it wasn't working right. So I could delete what I needed. Luckily, she was pretty nieve to what was going on and I learned how to better protect myself. In the end, I gave up the ghost. I had become egomaniacal about being one step ahead but it took so much discipline and strength. I just slowly started to come unglued and could no longer hide from the constant need to protect myself. In all honesty, there is no room for other women to be chatting it up with a husband. That's a red flag. There have to be rules and boundries or we will wander off with curious eyes. We have to accept that. Being a somewhat attractive, smooth talking person, I knew how to play on weakness. It's exciting. Like your a predator. You slowly start conversations and get caught up in it. Then it only gets worse.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> I have no intention of confronting this woman. He is the cheat. I do not wish to go to the gym with him either. I just want 100% proof so he will leave the family home, we have a joint mortgage and until I can present him with proof I have no choice. I don't hhave any saved money and this was my home originally so Im not moving. Im stuck in limbo till I get. I know I sound crazy but that's just the way I am.
> Thanks though it does mean a lot x


Why do you think you sound crazy. I think you sound perfectly normal, for what it's worth!


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Beth007007 said:


> I live in the UK but this site is amazing thats why I posted here. He has the savings in his account I have no access to them, he gives me a good amount for housekeeping.


Yeah, TAM is pretty great. And there's folks from all over the world here, so hopefully someone more familiar with D in the UK will be able to offer more specific help.

In general, it's a bad idea to move out of the marital home--which it sounds like you've no plans to do so that's good--as it can be construed as "abandonment" and in some jurisdictions hurt your outcome in D.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Beth sorry you are here. 

He is Guilty as Sin.

The VAR, and software deleting should give you all the proof you need.

Pretend to drop the matter for now so he lets down his guard. In the meanwhile continue to snoop. Does he have find my iphone? If you know his Apple ID Password you can locate him that way. 

Unfortunately with the passowrds, and the Viagra you know the deal. You just need to catch him outright. 

You will. Start preparing your exit plan or how you want to deal with this once you have confronted him with undeniable proof.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

A massive thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the help and support you kind people have given me.
A little update.... stealth mode has started. I will catch him, BUT
I think hes playing cat and mouse with me, I saw him enter his fone password last night, it was changed this morning. He has deleted one email from instagram but left all the other emails from instagram in his inbox. 
I have looked into our network to see whats connected to our wifi, nothing unusual so I don't think there is a second fone. I have not had a chance to look at the VAR because he works from home and goes to the gym on a night when our child is home. Got to read the manual online I think will be my best bet. My patience is wearing very thin.
Speak soon x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

One more thing that's been playing on my mind he said when I confronted him before why would I stay with you if I wanted to be with someone else. I'm not here for the house etc I'm here with you because I want to be with you"
Am I naive ?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

No you are not naive, he just knows you well enough to tell you what you want to hear. You are doing great hang in there.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Lostme said:


> No you are not naive, he just knows you well enough to tell you what you want to hear. You are doing great hang in there.


Thank you x
Can you direct me to the exit strategy if ones exits plz. I probalby wont be able to get back on here until tomorrow, but tia x


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

On the top right the is a log out button.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Beth007007 said:


> I live in the UK but this site is amazing thats why I posted here. He has the savings in his account I have no access to them, he gives me a good amount for housekeeping.


I live in the UK, too.

Thank goodness we have such great weather! Oh, wait, we don't, do we? 

Thankfully we have our inate British sense of humour! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Lostme said:


> On the top right the is a log out button.


hahaha


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> I live in the UK, too.
> 
> Thank goodness we have such great weather! Oh, wait, we don't, do we?
> 
> ...


Its a good job we do.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

First off thanks to everyone for the replies xxx
Update.... spent the whole day searching the house for Viagra. 
I.m going to crack I know I am, I'm getting headaches with all the stress of trying to be normal. I can't find any new evidence, tried my VAR out it works fine just need to get it in his car. I don't get much chance to get on here to reply but I am reading on my fone. Hes being to caring to thoughtful but I feel like I'm being watched iykwim. I have tried the fone software advised but it does not recover deleted whats app messages I tried it on my fone, I have tried to get on his computer in his office which is at home but it says no video input when its switched on, it never said that before, I want to look for saved passwords etc anyways got to go before hes back, feeling rather deflated now, I was excited about finding something additional to add to my evidence, there's always tomorrow.
Tatar For now lovely people x


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hes probably won this war, I feel defeated. I managed to get onto his computer (the one with the no video input) today I wanted to see saved passwords, hes changed the password in the last few weeks, I have absolutely no idea what it is. My VAR is broke it wont turn on and I cannot return it I have no packaging or receipt, I got an email from the sti clinic, inhibitory results need to repeat.
I tried wondershare on my icloud account and it sent me an email to let me know Ive logged in. I'm afraid to log into his icloud account now even though I know his details. I have cried and cried and cried some more today my little one has become very clingy poor little mite probably picking up my vibes.
Feeling totally down.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Just caught up. I was going to say slow down. He's an IT guy so, he knows how to protect himself from snooping. You have to be patient even if they know nothing, but more so when the person is tech savy. Since I am too late, take a deep breath and relax a bit. He's going to be in a hurry to wipe stuff and that may work to your advantage. Most people make mistakes when they hurry.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

You have the evidence you need.

Walk him to the computer and tell him to enter the password if you want in but it is clear he is deleting and hiding stuff. What details do you really need?

Infidelity does involve some nasty stuff for sure but to me, and a lot of others, it is the trust that means the most. That is why a lot of people view EA's as being just as bad as PA's. I tend to agree that once the trust is broken, who cares if it was over full blown sex or something equally minor? It's the trust that makes a relationship work. It is the SINGLE most important thing in ANY relationship.

This is why I think the notion that somehow a relationship can be even better after infidelity is totally flawed. You can never be as close to someone you don't trust as someone you do. Once trust is broken, it can never be fully repaired. It can NEVER reach the potential that a relationship with trust can reach. Once trust is broken the best move you can make is to replace that person with someone trustworthy.

None of what you are thinking or doing is crazy at all. He is not trustworthy. Period. Trustworthy people do not play password games with their partners at a time when the foundation of the relationship is in danger. Does it really matter if he is dipping his pecker at this point? He's made it clear he is superior in the relationship and your concerns are invalid. He will continue to act as inappropriate as he likes and you will just have to learn to live like that.

You OK with that?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Just caught up. I was going to say slow down. He's an IT guy so, he knows how to protect himself from snooping. You have to be patient even if they know nothing, but more so when the person is tech savy. Since I am too late, take a deep breath and relax a bit. He's going to be in a hurry to wipe stuff and that may work to your advantage. Most people make mistakes when they hurry.


I hope he screws up, I need him to.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Beth007007 said:


> My VAR is broke it wont turn on and I cannot return it I have no packaging or receipt, I got an email from the sti clinic, inhibitory results need to repeat.


I'm sorry you're here. Regarding the VAR breaking, that is very unfortunate and unlucky. I still think a VAR is your best tool in your situation, so replace it if possible. 

Because your husband is an IT guy, it will be difficult to outsmart him through a computer or phone. Is it possible that he is monitoring you and has seen your posts on this forum?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Rubicon said:


> You have the evidence you need.
> 
> Walk him to the computer and tell him to enter the password if you want in but it is clear he is deleting and hiding stuff. What details do you really need?
> 
> ...


Of course I'm not ok with that. I have been with him for 20 odd years, I tried that tactic a while back and it got me know where. We have a joint mortgage so he has the right to stay in our house even after I divorce him. I am trying to gather evidence to shame him into leaving the home peacefully for the sake of our child. I know he will leave for a while hoping I will come round. In that time I will be applying for a court order to prevent him returning and so my child and I can stay here until I can get some money together to rent somewhere else and put this house up for sale. I just want out as quickly and as quietly as possible.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> I'm sorry you're here. Regarding the VAR breaking, that is very unfortunate and unlucky. I still think a VAR is your best tool in your situation, so replace it if possible.
> 
> Because your husband is an IT guy, it will be difficult to outsmart him through a computer or phone. Is it possible that he is monitoring you and has seen your posts on this forum?


Oh now you have me scared.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I agree as well since, he likes to talk to her in the open. Plus, he is going to be further on guard when he likely gets the login email.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I agree as well since, he likes to talk to her in the open. Plus, he is going to be further on guard when he likely gets the login email.


He wont get the log in email, I have been on again, the email is sent immediately so can be deleted instantly.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I agree as well since, he likes to talk to her in the open. Plus, he is going to be further on guard when he likely gets the login email.


I'm not sure its still going on.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Beth007007 said:


> Hes probably won this war, I feel defeated. I managed to get onto his computer (the one with the no video input) today I wanted to see saved passwords, hes changed the password in the last few weeks, I have absolutely no idea what it is. My VAR is broke it wont turn on and I cannot return it I have no packaging or receipt, I got an email from the sti clinic, inhibitory results need to repeat.
> I tried wondershare on my icloud account and it sent me an email to let me know Ive logged in. I'm afraid to log into his icloud account now even though I know his details. I have cried and cried and cried some more today my little one has become very clingy poor little mite probably picking up my vibes.
> Feeling totally down.


No, you haven't lost, you've just had a setback, that's all. Step back, and take a deep breath. Play it cool and keep your ear to the ground right now, and pretend like nothing is wrong, that you've realized "you were just being silly." He's probably being overly cautious right now, since he knows you're suspicious, and he's worried about being caught. In the meanwhile, see if you can get another VAR, or see if this one can be fixed. Did you already put it in the car? He may have found it and tampered with it--it might not be broken.

And I'll also suggest you wait and hear what some other folks here have to say. This isn't my area of expertise, so I won't have much other useful advice.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

You seem to be really into finding this smoking gun.. this post and the other one... If you want a divorce,then just do it.. get a temp order for him to move out, that would give you some time to save up some cash ..


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> No, you haven't lost, you've just had a setback, that's all. Step back, and take a deep breath. Play it cool and keep your ear to the ground right now, and pretend like nothing is wrong, that you've realized "you were just being silly." He's probably being overly cautious right now, since he knows you're suspicious, and he's worried about being caught. In the meanwhile, see if you can get another VAR, or see if this one can be fixed. Did you already put it in the car? He may have found it and tampered with it--it might not be broken.
> 
> And I'll also suggest you wait and hear what some other folks here have to say. This isn't my area of expertise, so I won't have much other useful advice.


I had the VAR in his car this morning he went out for a few hours (he works from home) I got it back out later today I was listening to it and the batteries went. I replaced them with new ones now it wont turn back on.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Sammy64 said:


> You seem to be really into finding this smoking gun.. this post and the other one... If you want a divorce,then just do it.. get a temp order for him to move out, that would give you some time to save up some cash ..


Im in the UK what type of temp order ?


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

sorry i can not help any further, as i do not know the laws in the UK.. But i still do wonder why you are doing all this hard work for some little pill... i will say it again, If you want a divorce, then just do it...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say that you want more evidence so that he might feel ashamed enough to leave the house? And that this will start a domino effect that will ultimately make it possible for you to sell the house and move on? Do you have legal advice on all of this?

Other people have suggested that you have him followed and get some photo evidence that way. Is that not possible?


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

Evidence so far...
Admits to texting "a friend"
Deletes texts
Passwords everything
Takes Viagra out with him
Looks shifty as hell

Oh and I remembered he shaved all his body hair off last year two days before a lads holiday.

Still to get a VAR recording, mobile phone details and Dr wondershare log, have I forgotten anything ?
The fog has cleared and now I'm getting angry.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Beth007007 said:


> Evidence so far...
> Admits to texting "a friend"
> Deletes texts
> Passwords everything
> ...


WTF? You don't shave off all your body hair unless 1) you're having surgery, in which case the hospital does it for you, or 2) you're planning on knocking boots.

This is pretty damning.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

See a Solicitor for initial advice. That's my advice.


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## Beth007007 (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm done now, I will be ready to confront on Tuesday after I have legal advice. I will be asking him to leave permanently. I need help with my plan and support for the confrontation. He is away all day this coming Tuesday. I will be changing his email password so he cannot stop me from the following,
Accessing deleted texts from Dr.Fone
Checking which apps have been added and deleted from his iphone.
The VAR is definitely broke so no help there.
If he fones and asks if I have changed his email, I will deny it until he returns home. If he returns immediately he knows what I am up to and he obviously has something to hide.
I have an email from the STD clinic which ask me to call them. I am going to lie and say I rang and I have a STDthats why I am looking. 
Now do I wait a little longer until I have repeated the std test
(it came back inhibitory and needs repeating)
Or just do and confront, I am afraid now because I know the end is near. 
My ducks are now in order.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Those are red flares. My wife started doing that last Dec and was setting off alarms with me. Things went bad. But we're working things out, rebuilding my trust. Now her phone is open to me, all the apps too. WhatsApp was deleted (after I looked through it). I know every app that is on her phone.

Good luck!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did ou read the evidence thread and take note of the var instructions?

You seem to be acting against your best interests and in a hurry.

You need to be calm collected and in charge, not a loose canon.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Get ANOTHER VAR. They are super cheap and any decent computer store will have them. SONY if you can get your hands on it.
Digital Flash Voice Recorder, 2GB, Noise Cut, Black: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products

Have it sent to a friends place, have them buy it for YOU and you give them cash.

Take your time with this. ALSO get a real-time GPS tracker.... so when he "goes to work" - you know where he is really going.

What you want is solid evidence. If he's talking on his phone, then that'll get what you need.

USE brand new batteries! period! It'll last week or so.

My cheap-VAR is 6 years old, still works fine.


PS: EA is very bad (to me)... more so than a one night stand.


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