# Is it fear and depression or self-sacrifice and loyalty?



## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

32 years old, married for 10 years, 2 kids - 8 (with medical and developmental issues) and 2. Both kids are about the only beams of sunshine left in my life.

When I married, my wife loved sex. She had been abused earlier, but years of councelling and a careful, patient boyfriend (me) helped tremendously. We talked about anything we wanted, anything we were curious about, were open to anything. We wanted to respect each other, and hold each other up so we could each be the best we could be.

Fast Forward 3 years.

Had our first child. She has CF. Lots of medicine, lots of doctors. I'm working, so wife stays at home and learns all about it. Handles scheduling appointments, masters the language. She's champ. I praise her constantly. Sex dwindles. From 3 times a week to once a month. She feels bad about it, tells me to enjoy porn without her to make up the difference.

Moved. New house. She doesn't trust me to care for our daughter. Every time I go to pull meds, she reminds me 'now, it's 30 of X, and 50 of Y.' Then she doublechecks to make sure I got it right before i give it. Starts to show up in other aspects of life - I put up a shelf, she yells at me for taking chances (I worked as a carpenter for 2 years - NOW she's concerned I'll cut a finger off?)

Two years later. She is queen of the house. "All ways are my ways." If I cook dinner for her, she yells at me because she already thawed hot dogs and 'why don't I ever stop to consider her plans?' If I clean the cabinet, I'm 'being inconsiderate for making it impossible for her to find anything. If I sing or play the piano, I'm 'riling up the kids' or 'giving her a headache.' If she wants to go on vacation and I can't (or don't) she packs up the children and goes. I tell her I think we ought to start looking about potty training our boy, she blows up at me for two months. I don't know if cleaning the house will win me praise or punishment. I start to disengage.

She complains about me looking at porn. Going 4-5 months between sex at times. 8 is our record. 4-5 months is the compromise. I can't initiate. Accuses me of chasing other women, of being unfaithful to her. I tell her I'm not happy with how things stand, she blows up that I'm a monster for not considering her needs. For saying she's the problem.

So it happens. An emotional affair with a woman who provided me all the respect and awe and trust that my wife did not. Eventually became physical - although I never actually had sex with her. That would have been cheating to me. And it was wonderful. Other woman called it off - she felt too guilty for going on behind my wife's back.

A few months ago, I told her the whole truth. She clamped down on my whole life. Arguments that were once every few weeks about me 'not being considerate' are now every other day about how me leaving the toilet set up is 'just another indication of how she can't trust me - after all, I did cheat on her!' Every choice I make, every thought I have, every word I say is proof that I'm an uncaring monster. And I am. I did cheat on her. I lost 35 pounds - she complains about needing to buy me new clothes and I still have man boobs. 

Today. We've been in MC for 2 months. I'm seeing an IC due to massive depression and suicidal thoughts. My sex drive is non-existant. My few friends outside the marriage are starting to tell me to stop contacting them - they can't handle my distress right now. My wife is trying. She's trying to treat me with respect, tells me she loves me, is letting me make decisions. When she's in the right mindset, it's almost like it used to be. Then she has a stressful day... and I'm a monster again. One day, she is concerned about me, wants to help me however I can... the next day I just need to 'man up' and stop being depressed. She has to force herself and struggle just to show me basic common courtesy.

We talk about sex. She tells me she's reverted to being afraid of it, afraid of enjoying it. She lets me initiate, she just lays there. Tells me how much she enjoyed it, how good it was, we should do that more often... and then another 6 weeks pass. I tell her things I've thought about, ideas I've had - she breaks down, upset that she's not good enough for me.

I love my wife. I made promises to her. I feel that she hasn't kept promises to me. I don't want to leave my kids. I don't know if there's anyone else out there that could be better than this - but I look at this, and I don't see myself being happy. Half the friends I have left say 'give it time' 'let her try' 'be fair to her - you did hurt her, after all.' The other half say 'is this fair to you?' 'is this really fair to your kids?' 'get away - get some space and perspective.' Every time I start to find hope and joy in the thought of leaving, she's super sweet. Every time I start to get comfortable in her sweetness, I can't bear the thought of leaving. Then a few weeks later, I'm miserable again - without hope.

Help.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't have any words of advice but wanted to let you know you are heard. Please stick around as many will be around here soon to help you out.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Thank you. 
Even just this afternoon, I stepped out of work half an hour early to go enjoy some sun, play some piano. She asks 'did you get permission to leave? Did you finish your projects? Do you have enough hours this week? I just want to be sure you don't lose your job.''

I'm trying to learn to trust myself to make decisions-she really is going to second-guess me every step of the way. I'm going to have to dig my way out of this pit, and instead of a help, she's going to be a ball and chain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Are you on medication for depression? I see that you are in IC and are both in MC so that's a good start.

It certainly sounds like you have a lot of stress with an at needs child and a lack of trust with your wife. It has only been a few months since your wife found out about your affair. Her world is spiraling as well, please remember that. 

Hang in there. Many more here will be around to give you better advice then I can as I haven't dealt with this situation before.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Maybe move your post to the Coping with Infidelity section? There are many people there going through similar problems, more than just the infidelity.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Possibly. Although the more I think about it, the less I see the infidelity as THE problem. I know shes been struggling for months-but I've been struggling for years. She literally walls away from me as I'm responding to a direct question, uninterested in the answer. I'm not sure if my wandering just accelerated the pace of whatever path we were on, or if it was a tipping point that pushed us further. I DO know that she's made liberal use of my guilt to browbeat me into her every whim. Had a private conversation with my mother about an unrelated topic at one point-my mom confirmed with her that it was her I was talking to-and she reached a point of 'I can't be certain that he is seeking the will of God when he resists me like that.' It's no wonder I spend 18 hours a day with the mantra of 'i am a monster' in my head-I'm married to judge Claude frollo!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Man she has you ***** whipped and trained well frankly. Grab your sack AND MAN UP. DON'T LET HER RUN YOUR LIFE. YOU NEED TO TAKE THE POWER BACK.

Live Alpha and prosper. V


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Banx, your wife is not fulfilling her part of the marriage contract. The question is why? Obviously, you are not sexually attractive, since she has stated so and you haven't denied it. Your also don't demonstrate any Alpha or Sigma traits (attractive to women) and you come across as being very Delta, at best. This is a huge turnoff to women. Nevertheless, she's violating her contract.

Do you or does your wife regularly attend church? If so, you need to realize that most of those are run for the benefit of women and women are raised on a false morally superior pedestal and you've been programmed to accept an unbiblical view of marriage. This is especially true in evangelical churches.

Which leads us to this question: how is your wife fulfilling her sexual needs, now that she's at peak demand age?

Does your wife work? Does she go out with friends?

While we await those answers, you've got work to do.
Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Don't reveal this or any of your plans to your wife. Read it tonight.

Master your body. Get in the very best shape of your life. I'm talking Michelangelo's "David" shape, six pack and all. This requires weight training, 9 hours of sleep, and a Paleo Diet. cut out all and I mean all grains and sugars. A killer physique is 90% sleep and proper food and 10% exercise. I recommend "High Intensity Training" because it takes very little time, but any weight program will do. Don't bother with cardio/aerobics and avoid Crossfit, unless you're into injuries and recovery time.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

You and your wife have both been "through the mill".

For you both the strain of looking after a child with cystic fibrosis, for you the lack of intimacy that lead to your affair, for your wife the heartache that knowing about your affair caused.

You and your wife need to decide if your marriage is worth saving. To do so you must both forgive each other and deal with the real issues that your family faces. Keep up the MC.

IMHO you have to accept that you cannot change your wife (only she can do that) so you must concentrate on being the best “you” you can be. Spend some time at the gym, get yourself some nice clothes, and remember to have some "Me" time. Show your wife the value that you bring to the relationship, do not let her run you down or brow beat you.

I know that your children are your priority but it does not do them any good to have two warring parents so either you both "sign up" to make it work or you find the courage to end your marriage.

May I wish you all the best of luck.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Is it cystic fibrosis? I'm so sorry. 
How much sleep does she get in a row? How often do kids wake her up? Does she stay awake worrying? 

I feel sorry for both of you but Im going to focus on her bc I can relate. My d has asthma. Imagine that it is most likely a hundred times less serious and takes less work than CF. Even with the unknowns of asthma I have at times felt like I was at my wit's end. Why did this happen to us? What did I do wrong? Am I a bad mom? Does she really need this drug? What is this side effect? Is she going to have a normal life? Are we going to the ER tonight? An I going to lose my job because shes sick so much?
Maybe if I had just done XYZ differently she wouldn't have it. Dud I remember to give her this? Should I let her do that? 
Does she need a vaporizer? When is the next dr appointment? Do we need refills? 

That's just the beginning. Now imagine those thoughts are running through your head 24/7. Imagine it is YOUR sole responsibility to do all those things 24/7. It makes you crazy. 

She sounds like she has care giver fatigue. She probably already had anxiety issues and this has set them off. I think she needs help. Right now she's probably angry and guess what? She doesn't have time to be angry or sad or think a thought if her own because everything is about your child and she can't stop. 

Don't try to help her with meds right now. She was already angry at the world and you that she has to do this. She sounds exhausted. 

I think she needs to get into IC and see her dr about anxiety. Maybe try to fund respite care resources so she can get a few hours away to just be her. But I bet she won't trust anyone with the child without a lot of convincing. 

It's very hard to feel sexy with your ill child in the next room
coughing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

My daughter has a pill she has to take every time she eats. She's got 4 or 5 more that che takes daily or twice daily. Doctor's visits usually come every other month, eating up an entire afternoon if not a day. She's got to do a half hour vest treatment to break up the mucus in her lungs - with 2 or 3 nebulizers throughout - she does that twice a day when she's healthy, four times a day when she's sick. If she gets a cough that lingers too long, or when her oxygen levels drop below 90, she gets checked into the hospital until the cough goes away and her oxygen comes up. Never stayed longer than two weeks yet, although we did meet one little girl who spent 5 months checked in.

And while it is rough when we're in the hospital, or she's sick... the daily stuff, my wife thrives on. She's got the pills separated out, the logs ready, the appointments scheduled, the treatements scheduled. In her free time, she enjoys reorganizing everything, making sure that everything is ready and perfect to go. It's given her purpose and a spark of life that outshine everything that she had even when we were married.

I just wish I were part of it. 

I apparently can't be trusted to give her the pills she takes at every single meal. 2 pills. In the cabinet by the sink. She trusts my daughter to take them correctly by herself at school - and I'm often asked to let my wife double-check my work before I let my little girl pop them. And heaven help me if I insist that I know what I'm doing.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

You didn't read what I wrote. Just reading that made my heart hurt. You act like its no big deal, she's only in for two weeks. Chances are your wife sees it as forever. And she doesn't clean for fun, she does it to keep her from getting sick. 
I see that she is doing a lot that is wrong but I also see that she's being wrung out like a sponge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

BaxJanson said:


> I apparently can't be trusted to give her the pills she takes at every single meal. 2 pills. In the cabinet by the sink. She trusts my daughter to take them correctly by herself at school - and I'm often asked to let my wife double-check my work before I let my little girl pop them. And heaven help me if I insist that I know what I'm doing.


Can you refuse to allow her to double-check? Have you ever messed it up (and I mean really, not just in an imagined way)?

If not, refusing provides an opening to ask why she treats you like a child and refuses to let you care for your daughter.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> You didn't read what I wrote. Just reading that made my heart hurt. You act like its no big deal, she's only in for two weeks. Chances are your wife sees it as forever. And she doesn't clean for fun, she does it to keep her from getting sick.
> I see that she is doing a lot that is wrong but I also see that she's being wrung out like a sponge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't disagree, but I also see a martyr complex at work. She is wrung out, yet appears to refuse to let him take on the burden. 

A tough cycle to break. Unfortunately, the affair makes things difficult, as the OP has lost much if not all of his moral high ground. So getting her to change sounds an awful lot like rewarding him for his affair.

One tact may be to work to get her help, space and some rest. That would include her letting him help and respecting him as a father (heck, as a person). It helps both of them, without being overtly about her trying to fix things.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Do you or does your wife regularly attend church? If so, you need to realize that most of those are run for the benefit of women and women are raised on a false morally superior pedestal and you've been programmed to accept an unbiblical view of marriage. This is especially true in evangelical churches.


+1

Head over to Church for Men | calling the church back to men and read some of the articles. You'll some understand just how far the modern church has drifted from its Biblical roots on marriage (and why).

It's an eye opening site.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't disagree, but I also see a martyr complex at work. She is wrung out, yet appears to refuse to let him take on the burden. 

I see what could be a woman who has anxiety and maybe OCD tendencies. I see a man who views CF as not a big deal. Often when kids are sick the parents have wildly different ways of coping with it. My ex is very lackadaisical about the asthma. If we were still married that would drive me nuts. 
Do you know she probably wonders every day if her child is going to die? Every.day. 

You two are so far apart on that it's like night and day. She probably resents the f out if you for it. She can't put down her worry for a minute and she sees you acting nonchalant and can't wrap her head around it. 

And then you had an EA. I truly hope that this is a way for her to pull her head out of being just a mom to a sick child to being a person, a wife, a woman. That's what I think the key will be. 

You could probably do well to stop focusing in what she's done and focus more on what she feels, why does she do those things? And when I say she worried your child is going to die everyday I am serious. And better yet, whose fault does she think it will be? Hers. She has too much on her mental
plate. I don't think you are going to find your way back without having some compassion for that. 
Hopefully the MC will help you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

^^^^^ He had a PA.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> I don't disagree, but I also see a martyr complex at work. She is wrung out, yet appears to refuse to let him take on the burden.
> 
> I see what could be a woman who has anxiety and maybe OCD tendencies. I see a man who views CF as not a big deal. Often when kids are sick the parents have wildly different ways of coping with it. My ex is very lackadaisical about the asthma. If we were still married that would drive me nuts.
> Do you know she probably wonders every day if her child is going to die? Every.day.
> ...


I don't doubt this. I will note that part of that appears to be on her. She refuses to put down her worry and then blames him because she can't. He can't win and quite possibly he never has been able to because the game was always rigged.

Part of why I asked my questions was to get an idea if the OP had dropped the ball before. Also, the approach I suggested is part of getting/allowing him to help and getting/allowing her to let go at times. 



> And then you had an EA. I truly hope that this is a way for her to pull her head out of being just a mom to a sick child to being a person, a wife, a woman. That's what I think the key will be.


I hope so as well, though note it was a PA.



> You could probably do well to stop focusing in what she's done and focus more on what she feels, why does she do those things? And when I say she worried your child is going to die everyday I am serious. And better yet, whose fault does she think it will be? Hers. She has too much on her mental
> plate. I don't think you are going to find your way back without having some compassion for that.
> Hopefully the MC will help you both.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just as you can speak from the wife's side, I can speak a tiny bit from the husband's side (but without the affair). It is extremely hard to engage and feel empathy when you are shut out in this situation. My son had some issues, and my wife initially took them all on. It never got this bad, but in the beginning, it was made clear that I was not needed and would only mess things up. Because of that, I did not fully appreciate what was going on. She developed resentment (fortunately not a lot) because the burden was all on her and I did not force her to give it to me. The OP made a mistake in not forcing that issue (I did and we quickly righted that). 

The OP is definitely going to need to show her that he is listening to her feelings and fears. That he is trying to understand them. But he also needs to make clear that he can't do that if she does not share them and if she does not let him be a part of it.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yep. She made lots of mistakes but if she is sleep deprived and has anxiety, there's not a lot she can do without meds and IC and time to herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks for the discussion on this, guys - if even faceless internet people can't agree on what the problems are, let alone solutions, I feel reassured that I've got little hope of fixing this on my own.

To clarify - My daughter's CF is IMMENSELY important to me. Thanks to a few bad stays, I have a HUGE phobia of them - and take my turns, every other night at my daughter's bedside. While she's asleep, I'm usually curled up in a ball rocking, but I'm there so she doesn't have to be. I don't have a lot of input on what happens with her medicine, but what I do contribute, I do it right. Mom's the one that remembers to get her in the vest when it's easy - Dad's the one that does it when she's screaming and crying. I don't know that it's the ideal arrangement, but she's never communicated any dissatisfaction to me.

And no, I never even came close to messing up before this. 

She says she wants to try and fix it, to relax her control, to stop criticizing - to start respecting me as a human being, if not as her husband - and then she drops her guard, falls back into old habits, and I start feeling like a piece of chit again. If I call her out on it, she wails that I'm not allowing her to fail - she's only human, after all, and she really is trying. But it's cutting me to pieces every time she slips, and I wonder 'if she thinks so little of me that it's this hard to give me the same courtesy that she gives the dog... how can I ever hope to cobble together a decent marriage out of this mess? I believe her that's she trying. If I didn't, I'd be gone. It's drawing the line of 'you're not making enough progress, and you're still treating me like the dog poop on the bottom of your shoe. It's gone on long enough.' that I'm struggling with.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

So did you have a PA?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I don't know you or your wife, so this should all be taken with many grains of salt but...

I would feel completely out of control and helpless in her situation. Managing the CF is a very difficult and emotional process and it sounds like she was overcompensating for her feelings of helplessness by trying to control it ALL. Not good. 

Add in there the affair and her world is a mess. 

I'm glad you're seeking out MC - it's needed. What type of homework are the two of you doing? I know in our case, reading the 5 Love Languages helped tremendously. It helped each of us know very specifically what we could do for the other to help us both feel loved (which had been missing). 

It also helped us both to spend time talking about how things were going that week in our marriage, what was working, what wasn't and recommit to working on it the next week. 

Are the two of you able to have time to yourselves? If so, spend that time talking or doing something fun, unrelated to your daughter, work or anything but what's in the moment or reminiscing about how you met or what you like about each other.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would feel completely out of control and helpless in her situation. Managing the CF is a very difficult and emotional process and it sounds like she was overcompensating for her feelings of helplessness by trying to control it ALL. Not good. "

I second that. I think you have some battle fatigue too. I think I was wrong, it seems like you are so stressed you have started to think this is normal. I feel so bad for all of you. My d spent one night in the hospital and I was a mess! I think you sound nonchalant because you are so worn out. 

Yes you both definitely need help. Parents have enough trouble with a healthy child. 

She just seems like she has no clue how to let go at all. Neither of you asked for this, you are dealing with it differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, a variety of circumstances have me the bravery/cowardace to ask for a separation. In about two weeks, ill move out. I hate myself so much right now. But im taking my time so we both know it isn't an escape, its a time to heal and reflect. We're just not getting that time any other way right now. Told her to pray as hard as i am that if this is not God's will, he will make it impossible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear that. Wish you all well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

How are you managing the visitation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm going to try and get an apartment for 6 months. Ideally, I want to take the kids Thursday evening through Friday morning, then all day saturday through to Sunday. Perhaps time as a family Sunday afternoon.

I still don't hate her. I just want to give her time to figure out why she's doing this, if she wants to change it, and time to change it - all while I figure out how to undo the damage it's done to me. I haven't given up hope yet. I want this to be a tool of healing and growth, not of running away. I'm committed to staying in weekly councelling with her, trying to date her again, and giving her as much time without the kids as I can. 

Who knows - maybe I'll even learn how to have fun again.


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