# Separated, very confused.



## Switchseat (Jun 23, 2018)

My wife and I have been together for 9 years. Both of us brought issues into the relationship from our pasts that have remained unresolved. 

We had a lot of ups and downs leading up to marriage but always “worked it out”, and stayed together.

We got marrried in 2016, moved to another state in 2017 and then things got rocky. My wife can be very controlling while I am very passive. Our communication suffered as a result and while each of us claim we tried, I don’t believe WE did. It always felt like 1 person or the other was trying. I would try my way, and become frustrated when my wife didn’t respond, and she would try her way and become frustrated when I didn’t respond. Needless to say this caused fighting, depression, and each of us turning to different coping methods instead of coming together to find what could work for us.

2 weeks ago my wife said she didn’t feel anything anymore. She said she felt angry, hurt, and couldn’t see our future together anymore. 

I asked if she needed space and she said yes. I moved in with a friend of mine into his house. 

After limited conversation and no discussion of divorce I talked to my wife last night. She told me she felt exhausted, she said she felt as though she had tuned out of everything including her job and when she was home alone. I suggested counseling, she didn’t say no, just that she wasn’t ready. I asked if she was considering divorce and she said yes, she said right now she’s just trying to live and be happy. I told her that while I agreed with her that she had tried and that I had tried, perhaps that was where it went wrong, that WE never attempted to work together through issues. WE never tried to accomplish things together, and that perhaps that’s why 1 of us always felt exhausted. I told her that just because we’ve hit a wall doesn’t mean we’re doomed, that I believe we have an opportunity to move forward differently than we have in the past. Finally I asked her not to quit, “just don’t quit, so many people quit at this point, I don’t want to quit.”

Earlier in the week I had asked her out to dinner for her birthday which is next week. She had agreed. After our latest conversation, just before I left, I asked her if those plans were now cancelled.....she said no, she was still okay with me taking her out.

I’m just terribly confused. She’s “exhausted, angry, sad, highly considering divorce, not feeling anything for me anymore” and yet.....dinner is still on for next week.

What is happening?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read up it's short.
https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy

You keep up your passive reactions and running away will only make this worse.

You chase (constant contact) will onlypush her farther away.

Stop the whipped puppy act and go your own way.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> Read up it's short.
> https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy
> 
> You keep up your passive reactions and running away will only make this worse.
> ...


 @Switchseat , do you even begin to understand what Marc is saying here?

Passivity in men is the kiss of death for relationships. You are being weak, beta if you will, there is nothing that is more unattractive to women than a weak man. 

Now, are you SURE that she is not having an affair? How are you sure? Have you looked over that phone bill, have you looked at her phone, have you looked at her computer? Is her phone locked, if it is why. 

I have the feeling that you are being played, but I am not ready to make a definitive call on your case yet. 

Further, did you guys make any rules about seeing others while you gave her "Space"? Really why am I not surprised? 

Listen buddy, you need to man up and wise up. 

Please let us know that you understand what we are saying, marc and I.


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## Switchseat (Jun 23, 2018)

Yes I believe I understand what you are both telling me. And if I’m mistaken then just know that I am actively seeking to understand anything I don’t, that’s why I’m here. So please do correct any misunderstandings on my part.

Being passive is what got me here. Being passive, sheepish even, allowing myself to show too much weakness, to fall into depression, to allow my wife so much control that she ended up feeling like the alpha, has caused my wife to dismiss the thought of me as a suitable partner. I will not be able to save my marriage with more of the same. 

That being said, I am currently taking much better care of myself. Gym, eating and drinking the right things, sleep habits, seeking counseling to improve my perspective on things that I lost touch with.

To answer your questions, no I am not certain that she is not having an affair. I cannot go through her phone as I am not staying in that apartment currently, nor could I even if I was because she has a lock on it (each one of our jobs send emails with sensitive information on it, so a password is necessary). I don’t have the passwords for her emails, nor does she for mine. Are you saying I should outright ask her about it?

And yes, we have set boundaries for our separation, no dating/intimacy with others, no limits on our communication with one another (we can text/call whenever we like). I still go to the apartment as I please, although I’ve been attempting to go there while she’s at work to avoid intruding on the space we have agreed on (I take it this falls under continued passivness?)

As it stands, I am taking her to dinner tomorrow night for her birthday. I texted her the reservation information an hour ago. She only replied “ok”.

All that being said, and considering how this space has been defined. What are some ways in which I can display some of this new strength I’m discovering since our separation began? What suggestions do you have? I feel worlds better about myself at this point. My wife is still in a place of anger, she’s all but legally given up on us, why steps can I take to being reversing previous trends? To show her that I am not the man she grew angry with, that I am something else entirely?

Are you suggesting I cut off communication until communicated with? Are you suggesting that I move back in and let her leave if she wants to?

Again I’m listening, truly, lay it on me.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

There is someone else....

Setting her own timeline so she looks like she "tried". You are beta and just not desirable... The worst thing you could have done is leave the domicile. Since you separated, it is now easier to start to do things privately. There is no more "couple". That is now gone I fear.

I would cancel the birthday. But that is just me. I mean, why celebrate something with someone who doesn't care...

BTW...the word "exhausted" means sick of talking to you.

Wait till you find out what or who is really turning her wheels. Stick with the counselling and start to prepare for a single life ahead....Sorry.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@Switchseat, if you are not sure if she is cheating, you could always try to get PI to investigate. It would at least allay your fears in those directions. As for dealing with your wife, keep open the communications, but I think you need to let her see that you are continuing and improving YOUR life. One of the suggested ways here is to let her see that you can live a fine full life without her, or "be ready to lose your marriage in order to save it".


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Switchseat said:


> Yes I believe I understand what you are both telling me. And if I’m mistaken then just know that I am actively seeking to understand anything I don’t, that’s why I’m here. So please do correct any misunderstandings on my part.
> 
> Being passive is what got me here. Being passive, sheepish even, allowing myself to show too much weakness, to fall into depression, to allow my wife so much control that she ended up feeling like the alpha, has caused my wife to dismiss the thought of me as a suitable partner. I will not be able to save my marriage with more of the same.
> 
> ...


So that for the most part seems like a good understanding, but not complete. 

And based on the new information that you have given, I have to go with @BarbedFenceRider 's guess that there is someone else. 

The thing is that the continuous mistake that you are making is still in your mind, chasing her. Yeah, you are giving her space but in your mind and heart you still want and are thinking how you can win her back. 

Now a lot of what I will say is standard stuff, and I am just going to lay it out. Some, not all, will apply to most of these situations like yours. 

1) Stop chasing, in your mind and heart. Let her go. If you mentally let her go, it hurts less and allows you to focus on you. And you need a lot of focus right now. 

2) Married couples, should not, have locked phones and computer accounts that the other does not know. (Unless you literally work for the CIA) This type of situation allows each other to be shady. 

3) You cannot just ask if she is having an affair. If she is she will lie. But understand this, MOST OF THE TIME, when a woman wants to separate, or have a break, it is to try out the new guy with less supervision and see if he is viable. Some will disagree, but this is the way that it happens most often. 

4) You being weak, letting your depression take over, not taking steps to correct it until it was too late, is completely on you. This is part of being a weak man, not realizing you have a problem, and when you do realize it not taking steps to correct it. Women, regardless of what they say, want a MAN to be in charge, strong, confident. They want that because it makes them feel secure. When they stop feeling that, bad things happen.

5) In your situation, and a bad as you fell into a hole, frankly, there may be nothing you can do to save this. Once MOST women lose that feeling, it is gone. It is not impossible but highly improbable that anything you will do can get it back. If she is seeing someone, that makes it ever worse. She has found someone that gives her the things she needs and she is attracted to. 

So... What to do...

If you want to know what is going on with her, hire a PI and have her followed. My guess is you will find out that she is having an affair. Further, don't think of this as being weak, or controlling... you need to find out what is going on with her for sure. 

If she is not having and affair, then all you can do is get yourself together, get your head straight, and prepare to move on with your life. The point to all of this is you have to let her come to you, you do not chase. She may or may not come back, you need to deal with the realization that most likely she will not. 

Taking her is dinner for her birthday, is a weak move, and you should not have done it. And the really nice BD present that you already got her, don't give it to her. 

So have a PI check out the situation so you know what you are actually dealing with, make yourself better for you, and prepare to move on. If she comes back to you, great don't fall into the same patterns.

And understand some things about being alpha, beta, strong, weak, or what ever. It is not about being cool, or a bad azz, or rude to woman, or using woman. In fact it actually has nothing to do with woman. It has to do with you. You want to be confident in yourself, your abilities. It is about feeling good about yourself. If you are not good in bed/sex, then read up, learn, understand woman better sexually. If you have trouble standing up for yourself, work on that, do not allow yourself to be disrespected by anyone, most of all your wife. 

When you are comfortable and confident in your own skin, your wife still may not come back to you, but other women will want what you have. 

Get to work...


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## Switchseat (Jun 23, 2018)

I appreciate all of the responses. I have hired a PI. Ive read through many threads, looked over many testimonials, and while I’d like to believe my wife is incapable of this, I cannot deny that all the signs are there. I don’t know what happens if I find out there is infidelity, I don’t know what that means for the divorce, if anyone has any insight on how that could factor in then fire away, I reside in Texas.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Get your ass back in the house.

As you're unpacking and she's expressing her displeasure and surprise at you showing up, just tell her "I'm here to stay. If you want out, there's the door".

She might even grow an inch of respect for you.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Any kids? I'm guessing not since you have only been married a short time. That's a hell of a blessing if its already going bad. Add in kids and a decade of marriage and it gets painful. Infidelity or not, I believe if someone isn't 100% sure they want to be with you, time to get out. Who wants to be their plan B? Don't even try to win her back, she will just see as a groveling beta man-child and she will notice it...Then you have an entitled starfish on your hands that will believe she has married down. Then you are screwed.

Divorce now while you aren't too far in. You can waste your money on a PI if you want, but it should be the same result either way. If it is already a **** marriage, it is only going to get worse. I too got married to a controlling <female dog> and became the passenger in our marriage. She eventually cheated on me and then moved out. Being a shameful billy beta, I don't even blame her, but she is history. Correction is key. Now I'm with a submissive woman and back in the front seat and feel like my balls have reattached again. I walked around for 9 painful years without a pair, that is what this woman will do to you if you stay. Good for you that you working out, work on your confidence and assertiveness and tell her you are busy on her birthday, then do what you want to do.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Trident said:


> Get your ass back in the house.
> 
> As you're unpacking and she's expressing her displeasure and surprise at you showing up, just tell her "I'm here to stay. If you want out, there's the door".
> 
> She might even grow an inch of respect for you.


Definately move back in. Tell her (and do it) that since she isn't sure she wants to be married to you anymore that you will make it easy on her and find a divorce lawyer in the morning. Its your terms now, not hers. That's if you want your estranged balls back. Take it from me, they will descend again upon signing of the divorce papers.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> That's if you want your estranged balls back. Take it from me, they will descend again upon signing of the divorce papers.


Unless he has to give them up as part of the settlement.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Trident said:


> Unless he has to give them up as part of the settlement.


I thought of that, but he lives in Texas. They are very pro-ball on divorced men.


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## Switchseat (Jun 23, 2018)

I guess it’s relevant here to mention that She showed up for dinner last night. We made some small talk, then she kind of stared off into space, so I said “ok, what else is going on?”. 

She replied, “I want to get my own place, in order to dissolve the lease on our current apartment it’s goong to take our entire savings”

I sat there and kept looking at her. Then she made eye contact with me and said “and I think I want to file for divorce”.

We had the dinner boxed up, didn’t even touch it. Then the birthday cake that I had specially requested be brought out after we were done (and had foregotten about) came, they sang happy birthday to her literally seconds after she told me she thinks she wants to file for divorce.
They sang, she started tearing up, they thought it was happy tears.

We had a couple blocks to walk back to the cars after dinner. We talked about our options, AGAIN. And then for some reason she circled back to counseling. Asking me what I thought that would fix, why I even wanted to go.

I told her I didn’t know what it would fix, that we may go and figure out that this really can’t work, but that all I was concerned with when I asked for that previously was that we try, because it’s a marriage. 

And for some reason, she agreed to go, “find a counselor, let me know where and when, I’ll show up if that’s what you think you need, I mean we, if that’s what you think WE need”. Don’t know why. Everything about the way she talked about it felt like she was just going to go to be able to say after it’s done that “she tried” again. Just another pat on the back for all HER effort.

So anyways. I had told her that our dog needed to be taken out again as he hadn’t done all of his business before I had left him earlier. She said okay. We got in our cars, left. An hour and a half later, I realized I had left my bag containing my company laptop in it over at the apartment earlier as I was in a rush to take the dog out, grab some things and get to dinner. I called her, she didn’t answer. Okay, if she’s there then I’ll just knock, grab my bag, go. 

So I get there, she’s not there, all the lights are off, so I go in, find my dog upstairs next to the washing machine, poop on the kitchen floor, peed again too. It’s pitch black, he has no water. And she was nowhere to be found. It takes 25 mins to get home from where we were, so it’s obvious she went somewhere right after we left.

I called her, no answer again. So I texted “if you need me to take him out I would have, I told you I would help with him if you couldn’t make it home, so I’ve got him with me now”

I had things to do so I took the dog with me, wasn’t going to leave him there like that with no sign or word on when he’d be taken care of, and I wasn’t about to reset the clock for her and clean all that up when she had chosen her privacy over making sure he was good to begin with”. Also wasn’t going to sit there and not complete my errands for that either.

She exploded after about a half hour. “I was gonna be home soon, drop him back off and leave, I went out for drinks, I was just seeing if he could last a while without me”

My wife has a job that sometimes has her out of the house for 16-24 hours. Especially her on-call shifts.

I took the dog back about 2 hours later when she confirmed she was home. She tried to justify leaving the dog alone in his own filth in complete darkness with no food or water for over 8 hours.

Eventually she relented, admitted she was wrong. It turned into an US discussion again, much less heated, she said she can afford to pay for the apartment alone, that I just have to sign papers to be taken off the lease, I’m hesitant to do that however because I feel like that might contribute to me losing the dog in the divorce. I love that dog, would like to have him come with me. We have a cat too.

Again she said she’d go to counseling. I left.

I say all that to say. I’m no longer seeing any light here, just preparing myself for divorce now, seems a foregone conclusion, I’ll go to the counseling, I have no problem discussing things with a mediator, but now my focus is my dog.

And I also agree with the suggestion that I go back and tell her she can leave, but I’m not. Only problem is, while I can pay for that place on my own, it wouldn’t leave me much of anything to function in the world. I’d be severely strapped. And then if she left, she’d Almost certainly start a fight over the dog. So I feel kind of stuck there.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Oh, you guys are just renting. Don't worry about moving back in with her then. If you had a mortgage, sometimes its not good to leave because some dirtbag lawyer may claim abandonment or some such BS. Get out of the lease if you can without paying out the nose. Tell her you want to keep the dog. She just wants a divorce, if you agree to that on condition you get to keep the pooch, she may jump at it.

Sorry, it will take some time to get over but it will be over and you will move on with someone that will value you. She was probably out late with her boyfriend, you know this. I wouldn't waste your time on some half hearted attempt at MC, that only works if both parties are heavily invested. She doesn't seem to really care anymore than to jump through the hoops to say she tried. You will just get your hopes up for nothing. She is checked out.

There are plenty of wonderful, sexy women out there that will treat you with respect. She is no special snowflake.


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

It’s a rental apartment and she’ll take over the lease? Do that and Stay gone. 

After that’s done, go pick the dog up for a walk and don’t come back. 

And file for divorce. 

Then keep walking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Switchseat said:


> I guess it’s relevant here to mention that She showed up for dinner last night. We made some small talk, then she kind of stared off into space, so I said “ok, what else is going on?”.
> 
> She replied, “I want to get my own place, in order to dissolve the lease on our current apartment it’s goong to take our entire savings”
> 
> ...


Don't waste your time with counseling, please...

Dude, she went to see her boy friend, can't you see that? 

Why are you being so stupid about all of this? 

File, no counseling, and good grief, it is a dog, not a kid. 

Just lose this woman and stop being a moron...


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## Switchseat (Jun 23, 2018)

Update:

Didn’t go through with the PI thing. Not worth it, won’t change anything about my situation, costs too much money. Also, PI guys will not tell you when something is against the law, they’ll just act as if it’s fine, not cool, not for me.

At this point I’ve had all the conversations I can have with her, I’ve said everything one can say. Just gonna step back, keep my new stuff going, and wait for it to go how it’s going to go.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Switchseat said:


> Update:
> 
> Didn’t go through with the PI thing. Not worth it, won’t change anything about my situation, costs too much money. Also, PI guys will not tell you when something is against the law, they’ll just act as if it’s fine, not cool, not for me.
> 
> ...


Everyone here can see what's up. You're in denial hoping she'll come back. You're going to get strung along and played unless she dumps you quick. Which would be more merciful. If it were me I'd just file.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jumping into MC while she's in an affair is a waste of time and money.

The Calvary isn't coming. You have to do it yourself.

Better wake up and stop being a chump


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP you really are a lost cause. You keep trying to justify everything that goes against what everyone is telling you. 

Normally, weak chumps like you are chew up, spit out, and left by the curve, crying and wondering what just happened to them. This is your near future. The sad thing is you won't do a thing about, because really, it looks like you have no idea how to be a man, or at least react like a man. Sorry to be harsh, but this is the true, whether, you want to accept it or not.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

She left dinner and went out with the guy she's seeing. She freaked because you caught her in a lie. She wants you off the lease because you can legally enter the residence and may catch her with her affair partner. Tell her you will agree to be removed from the lease if she gives you the dog. Best for the dog considering her work schedule, anyways. Then get the divorce papers filed and walk off into the sunset with your canine friend.


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