# Household chores



## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Hi all, new member here! I'd like to pose a question to you all. This is something that has caused a lot of grief in my marriage and has actually become something that angers me greatly.

I was a stay at home mom for years. I did work part time jobs here and there but never worked a job that would interfere with my duties as a mom. I am working part time now. Hubby agreed with my working part time, he didn't want the kids in daycare either. Three kids by the way.

Something hubby always told me was since I was a SAHM he was not responsible for the housework. The kids and house are mine. I bought into this for years. For a long time I thought it was "fair". 

A hand full of years ago though it dawned on me that it really isn't all that fair, not at all. When the kids are older and all in school all day and I'm then working more, who's gonna clean the house? When the kids are even older and I'm then working full time, who's gonna clean the house? Because by his logic I won't have to anymore. Stupid.

When this light bulb finally went off in my head boy did I get angry. Really really angry. I felt like he was taking advantage of me.

But that brings up the question of what is a fair solution? Should someone who works all day have to come home and then do dishes and mow the yard? Should they have to fold laundry or vacuum? 

I can't count how many times hubby has said in the past that he wished he could be the stay at home parent. Like it's a cushy job. I realize now that that is how he thinks of it. He has visions of being home with the kids and taking them fishing while I work. Literally. 

So what is the solution to this?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

When you were a SAHM, how many hours a week did it take to do the household chores? Could it be done during his workweek, without neglecting the kids?

If so, then it's a fair division of labor. *However*, he should participate in childcare and fun times after work and on weekends. He should be helping with evening needs, unless you've had actual down time during the day to relax or pursue your interests (if you have, he deserves that opportunity as well). He should help with/take care of chores that you cannot do alone, are beyond your abilities, or can't be done while also watching the kids (assuming there is no time that they can be scheduled when this is not a problem).

When you are working, that obviously leaves less time for other activities, and when you are working full time, the household tasks and parenting activities should be split fairly evenly, IMO. This may require a discussion to remind him that things have changed, and it is no longer fair for you to assume most of those responsibilities.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

100% if a bit extreme. He should contribute in some way as well. 

After all, stay at home mother (done right) is the hardest job in the world.

You need back up, especially with children etc when he gets home. You also need a break every now and then.

Correct, as you work more, he will have to chip in more as well.

Key is to keep balance around 50/50. 

I'm also pretty sure original agreement was under the assumption that he works and you don't. As time goes by, obviously that will change.

Regardless, he should do few things. 

Wife and I are in the exact same situation and I contribute by fixing/working on house/projects, working on cars, cooking, dishwashing etc. 

I just try to continue to be engaged/involved (even with little things). I know how hard it is/has been for my wife to raise our children (we have 4 btw).


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

IMO, if someone is a full time SAHM, they should be responsible for the bulk of the household chores. That's just part of being a SAHM. Kids should help too, of course, even when they're 3 or 4 there's things they can do to help out. And if you're a SAHM with all the kids in school, then for sure you should be doing housework. The bulk of it. But the working spouse should also be contributing - like cleaning up the supper dishes, bathing kids at night, tucking them in, yard work, whatever. If he isn't doing any of that, what IS he doing?

But it doesn't sound like you're full time at home. If you don't have the kids in daycare, who is taking care of them and where when you're at work?


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I agree with Hope. If you're a SAHM, you should do the majority of house chores. Of course, he needs to contribute with helping raise the kids, yard work, etc, but he shouldn't have to come home from working all day to spend all evening working too. 

I'm not saying its a cushy job, but just think about working moms who work all day to come home and clean, cook and take care of kids all evening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks for the responses everyone. The more and more I think about this I'm beginning to see that there really is no one size fits all solution because each relationship is unique.

In my particular situation I think Hubs has been using the fact that he works full time as an excuse to get out of having to do things. It's a very convenient excuse and in most situations would be valid but he's gone overboard with it. He does help out somewhat but he also leaves his messes for others to pick up. Me. I don't get that. I could never make a mess and then expect someone else to clean it up. I've gotten to where I have stopped picking up after him and our house then looks trashed. He has stuff all over the place. 

When our youngest was born I also had a preschooler and a kindergartner, my hands were very full. He did help out more back then but would whip out his excuse when it suited him. Not once did he get up in the night to rock or console a crying baby though, not once. He needed his sleep for work.

And I think that's what's bothering me now. He uses the excuse when it suits him. He could say "Hey, I'm beat today, I need to relax and I'll be better tomorrow" but he doesn't, instead he throws his job in my face. 

It's funny because his job has never once gotten in the way of him going fishing after work, not once. It's never stopped him from driving 45 minutes one way to go shopping at his favorite sporting goods store after work. I know that everyone needs down time to do what they enjoy but the irony of this leaves me rolling my eyes.

So, you see, his behavior about it is juvenile and he can't understand why I'm angry all the time. He does what he wants when he wants. My life on the other hand is completely centered around his and the kids' activities and the household responsibilities, so I make no plans for myself unless everyone else is taken care of first, ever. It pisses me off that he doesn't see this and I'm feeling like I'll be damned if I have to spell this out for him.

All three of our kids are in school all day now and I'm working part time for their school system so that I can still be there for them before and after school. So no day care for them is required. I'm off work on all school holidays and for the summers. 

I do agree that household chores should be, for the most part, the responsibility of the SAHM with the working father helping out as needed. But at the same time a spouse should not use his job as an excuse to pick and choose what he wants to do. My household responsibilities are set in stone, his are not.

So in sum, I guess I shouldn't expect him to do the dishes or vacuum after work since I'm working just part time. Knowing that isn't making my anger go away though. If I say anything to him about it he'll start doing dishes and picking up more often but it never lasts. The last time he didn't make it past two weeks. This cycle happens over and over. And my anger continues and it's now to the point where I don't want to lift a finger, I don't want to do any chores that would benefit him in anyway. I've become very bitter I guess. He has literally taken a valid reason to not have to do as much around the house and twisted it into something that he uses for his own purposes.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Willowlake said:


> So in sum, I guess I shouldn't expect him to do the dishes or vacuum after work since I'm working just part time. Knowing that isn't making my anger go away though. If I say anything to him about it he'll start doing dishes and picking up more often but it never lasts. The last time he didn't make it past two weeks. This cycle happens over and over. And my anger continues and it's now to the point where I don't want to lift a finger, I don't want to do any chores that would benefit him in anyway. I've become very bitter I guess. He has literally taken a valid reason to not have to do as much around the house and twisted it into something that he uses for his own purposes.


If this isn't addressed with him, it's going to fester and cause huge problems down the road. In 20 years your resentment will have built to the point it's unbearable.

Have you heard of the book His Needs Her Needs? That might be one way to address this with him. Or couples therapy. Or just sitting down and pouring your heart out to him. My guess is that he was probably raised with his mother doing everything for him, so maybe he just doesn't know how to do what needs doing and sustain it. You need to impress on him that this is something you want to solve TOGETHER.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks Hope, I'm actually in the process of looking for a counselor to talk with me about this. We've been married 22 years and it's done gone festered already. Unfortunately.

I can't talk with him. I get accused of being a know it all. This is something else that will get mentioned with the therapist. I don't know if this is his way of trying to shut me up or if he really does think that I think I know it all. I can't tell him my opinions or thoughts on anything now.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Have you ever tried writing him a letter?

Is this a dealbreaker for you?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

For household chores, here is how my wife and I handle things. While I'm at work, my wife takes care of all chores during the day. When I'm home, if there are any chores that still need to be done, we share the load together. 

Recently, my wife has been watching 2 kids during the work day. She does as much of the household chores as she can during the day without sacrificing the attention needed for the kids she's watching, so we end up having to share more of the load in evenings and on the weekend.

Seriously, if you are doing the work and doing it right, it takes A LOT of effort to keep on top of the household chores, i.e. cleaning all the bathrooms weekly, scrubbing down the kitchen regularly, cooking meals at home regularly, laundry close to daily, etc. etc. I also have a unique perspective since I have been working out of a home office for awhile now. I see what it takes to keep the house in order and what she goes thru with these kids that she's providing daycare for.

I'll leave it at this. This weekend, my wife and I are going to be washing the windows upstairs. Today, since my wife is off from watching the kids today, we're scheduled a nooner. No, it's not a payoff for work to be done. It was her idea because we would have the house to ourselves. Would she have wanted to make love today if I took the approach that "I'm not doing that, that's women's work" or "You're the SAHM, so it's NOT my job"? Honestly, I doubt it. Food for thought.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Have you ever tried writing him a letter?
> 
> Is this a dealbreaker for you?


We did talk recently. It normally doesn't go well but this time it was ok. I told him about looking for a therapist and described my constant anger to him. He then said he wants to join a gym. Ok, not sure what going to the gym is going to do for our relationship but ok. He's not overweight or anything.

Deal breaker? It's part of the deal but def not the entire picture. It's just a huge part of it, I feel like I've been cheated for years and years. I am angry at myself for not seeing it much sooner and putting a stop to it. I know you can't stop something you can't see but how could I have been so dumb? And I feel that he took advantage of my ignorance.

I don't know. There are a few issues and that's why I joined TAM, I need to talk before it's to late. It's very close to being to late. If there is a chance that this can be sorted out I'm willing to try. Things are not always what they seem and I don't trust that I'm seeing things as they really are, the anger/resentment may be clouding my view.

I won't write him a letter. I don't trust that we are capable of talking this through ourselves. We've talked so many times over the years and nothing has changed, just got worse in fact.

This household chores thing is just one topic that I've had on my mind and I thought TAM would be a great place to come and ask my questions about these things that bother me so much about him. I feel that I either don't understand men and how they think...at all, or I understand my man perfectly and it's not a pretty picture. Men are human and I believe most humans behave/think/feel, for the most part, just like all other humans. We all have so much in common that we are practically one and the same though we are many. So it's not to difficult to figure one another out. Just look at your own thoughts/behaviors/actions and you can spot them in others.

This is where I'm at. Am I really seeing him as he is or am I seeing a demonized version of him perhaps because I want out and haven't admitted it to myself consciously. I don't know.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Plan 9- yep, it takes so much to keep a house in proper shape. Hubs has no clue. He is unaware of all the little details involved.

You hit a nerve with your last point. We haven't had sex in three years. I can't understand why he's still around honestly because I know most men wouldn't stay. I just can't bring myself to be intimate with someone I don't respect. 

I can't respect someone who's constantly trying to get out of his responsibilities.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

By dealbreaker, I mean, if this particular issue isn't changed to be the way you want, will you end the marriage? 

Um, no sex in THREE YEARS?!?! Holy crap. I am surprised he's with you if you won't have sex with him. Maybe he's getting it somewhere else by now.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Hope, I just want him to stop making excuses and step up as far as responsibilities go. So yeah, I think if he can't do that it's going to place a brick wall between us and progress.

He doesn't have the um....nerve...to step outside the marriage for sex. That's another issue for the therapist. 

My hubby is different. I think so anyway. There are things going on inside him that I don't see in other people. He's very timid both in the sack and with other people. He hides the timidity well in social situations but it's there.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Willowlake said:


> Hope, I just want him to stop making excuses and step up as far as responsibilities go. So yeah, I think if he can't do that it's going to place a brick wall between us and progress.


You need to decide what exactly you will do if he doesn't step up, as well as a time limit. Otherwise you're just making empty threats with no solution in mind, and he knows it.



Willowlake said:


> He doesn't have the um....nerve...to step outside the marriage for sex. That's another issue for the therapist.
> 
> My hubby is different. I think so anyway. There are things going on inside him that I don't see in other people. He's very timid both in the sack and with other people. He hides the timidity well in social situations but it's there.


This is almost exactly how I would describe my husband. Have a look at my story - links in my sig - to see just how wrong I was. And our marriage was NOT sexless.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I work full time and W stays home. Empty nest. She does all the housework, except on weekends and when I'm home. I gladly help out. Sometimes she gets mad at me for doing the dishes! (am I spoiled?) 

But even though I work full time, what's the big damn deal about doing stuff around the house? 

Why does a marriage have to get so granular? Why wouldn't I want to help her out? What have I got going on that's so damned important? I live there too. If I help, she can spent more relaxing time with me, or doing one of her hobbies. I'm all for that.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Woah, no sex for three years? How old are you two?


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> You need to decide what exactly you will do if he doesn't step up, as well as a time limit. Otherwise you're just making empty threats with no solution in mind, and he knows it.


I think your right.





> This is almost exactly how I would describe my husband. Have a look at my story - links in my sig - to see just how wrong I was. And our marriage was NOT sexless.


Off to read it now...thanks.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> I work full time and W stays home. Empty nest. She does all the housework, except on weekends and when I'm home. I gladly help out. Sometimes she gets mad at me for doing the dishes! (am I spoiled?)
> 
> But even though I work full time, what's the big damn deal about doing stuff around the house?
> 
> Why does a marriage have to get so granular? Why wouldn't I want to help her out? What have I got going on that's so damned important? I live there too. If I help, she can spent more relaxing time with me, or doing one of her hobbies. I'm all for that.


I so agree with you doubletrouble! Why can't stuff get done just for the simple reason that it needs to get done. Don't point out a mess and then begin huge discussions on who should clean it up and why!


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

We are 41 and 42. Yep.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Willowlake said:


> We are 41 and 42. Yep.


Oh good lord, I thought you were in your 20s.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> But even though I work full time, what's the big damn deal about doing stuff around the house?


This is us, too. Well, we are not empty nesters, more than ten years to go for that, but dh works all week and still helps when he is home. He wouldn't think of doing it any other way. 

I am really glad I am not married to a man who wants to quantify everything.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Sounds like there are big problems here, and the chores are just one facet.

I work around 50 hours a week, and I take care of all outside stuff, am the designated dishwasher guy, probably 50-50 on keeping the kitchen clean, and the weekend cook because I enjoy it. My wife is a SAHM, and the kids help out quite a bit.

When we were first married, I was pretty terrible at doing my part on the inside stuff, and my wife was pretty irritated about it, naturally. What she did was appeal to my sense of fairness. After a little resistence, I got it. I'm not sure what to suggest if your H thinks things are "fair" in your situation.

But there's a lot more to the situation than chores, right?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Wow Willowlake are we married to the same man?

My hubby throws that he works in my face every chance he gets! I get that he works, but him not helping out at all is getting to be bull ****. Our kids are almost 5 and 3 months. I am getting maybe 4 hrs of sleep a night. Sometimes I wont hear our daughter cry when she wakes up in the middle of the night, because I am so tired, and instead of taking her for 30 mins and changing her/feeding her he wakes me up pissed off, because he had to wake up to wake me up to get her. The other day I was driving our oldest to an appointment and I was falling asleep while driving!

Yesterday we got into it, all because he was hungry and expected me to make him food when he is quite capable of doing it him self. Hes 45 years old! According to him I sit on my ass all day! He also called me a few choice words in front of our oldest child! He said that he will not help me, he works!

He has not once put any of the kids to bed, has never given either one a bath, doesnt take them to appointments. He doesnt do anything. He wont even take the garbage out. When I do get out of the house to run errands, usually on his days off if im not home in an hour he calls me *****ing because I ve been gone to long and he needs a break. WTF really?

At this point I may as well be a single mom, the only thing I dont do is bring home money (I do make some, by selling online ) I am tired of him throwing it in my face everytime I ask him for help.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

GTdad- Yes there is a lot more to it than just chores. The chores thing is just one facet. It just that the chores thing is an everyday thing, not a point of contention that pops up just every now and then. It's a constant. If I'm going to put the effort forth trying to solve our issues this one has got to get fixed.


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## Willowlake (Mar 18, 2014)

Wow ladybird you're situation does sound like mine, and you're at a point in life, with two little ones, when his help is needed most. When the kids were little I didn't like leaving our kids with hubs alone so I could do the shopping, I knew he would get stressed out and grumpy with the kids, he had no patience. I was always stressed out when I did leave them with him and I'd hurry and do my errand so I could get back home asap. I don't ask him to help with the kids even nowadays unless it's necessary and he doesn't offer to help.

My H has gotten angry with me in recent times and says I treat him like a child.....if the shoe fits....


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ladybird said:


> Wow Willowlake are we married to the same man?
> 
> My hubby throws that he works in my face every chance he gets! I get that he works, but him not helping out at all is getting to be bull ****. Our kids are almost 5 and 3 months. I am getting maybe 4 hrs of sleep a night. Sometimes I wont hear our daughter cry when she wakes up in the middle of the night, because I am so tired, and instead of taking her for 30 mins and changing her/feeding her he wakes me up pissed off, because he had to wake up to wake me up to get her. The other day I was driving our oldest to an appointment and I was falling asleep while driving!
> 
> ...


I can see and understand your frustration, but I would be very careful with this statement. It absolutely eliminates your husbands value to the relationship, and there are many actual single moms who would disagree with you.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

samyeagar said:


> I can see and understand your frustration, but I would be very careful with this statement. It absolutely eliminates your husbands value to the relationship, and there are many actual single moms who would disagree with you.


 I have been a single mom before and it wasnt much different then now. Except that I am not currently working.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Willowlake and ladybird, I am really sorry for what you are going through. Being a SAHM is already a job, and I am sorry your husbands don't appreciate that.

I hope at some point you will be able to get jobs that allow you to earn enough to be able to leave, if you want.

I really feel sad to hear that at least one of your husbands is calling you names. I am sure that is hurtful.

Good luck, and _bon courage._ Again, just so sorry this is happening to both of you.


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