# Do all women think men prefer PIV orgasm?



## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I ask because when I've mentioned that I like to O with a good HJ or BJ as much as PIV, I get a disbelieving response. Is it because women don't feel comfortable with their HJ or BJ skills and intercourse is just simpler/easier and safer for them, or is it that they think they won't be reciprocated when it's over?

I live with my GF and get her off orally 80% of the time (PIV the other 20 or both) and would happily take care of her before or after she takes care of me, so that takes out the latter. I do think she could use some advice on technique for HJ/BJ's, but I asked her one time if she'd be offended if I offered her tips and she said YES, as if all men like the same thing and all women are born with the skills (BTW, I occasionally ask her if I can do things differently and she always says I know her body better than she does, so I get no advice, which I would happily take). Is it possible that women (or she) just don't feel very confident that they'll do it right and are embarrassed to ask? If so, how does a man get around that?

I considered getting her Dr Sadie's "Tickle his Pickle", but thought she'd be offended that I was inferring she doesn't know what she's doing. I've read several books on cunnilingus, positions, dirty talk, etc to know what women like in bed, so I certainly wouldn't think less of her or see any problem with her doing a little research.

Thoughts?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Unfortunately you'll need to continue trial and error if she won't tell you. Don't tell her verbally what she is doing wrong, guide her in the act. Put your hands over hers tenderly or make noise when she hits the mark. Is she comfortable letting you put your hands on the side of her head to guide her? Also, give her positive feedback, tell her you like it when she does ..... 

PIV gives her an orgasm sometimes. If not, she gets the benefit of the pleasure of skin to skin contact. A HJ or BJ has minimal skin to skin contact and may seem less affectionate and romantic? She may be surprised that you want that. Make sure to be affectionate no matter what you do. Hold her lovingly afterwards.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I can't really speak from a woman's point of view, but as a Southern gentleman, there is nothing more heavenly than a long, slow "O" from the sheer ecstasy provided by the containment of PIV!

But more especially than that is that it comes from a woman who simply loves you beyond measure!

Now the ecoutrements that are provided by a lady's willing hands and mouth are quite nice, and as a warm-up are rather pleasant, but IMHO, nothing quite compares to the closeness and the skin to skin contact that good ol' natural PIV provides!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Even though I am not a woman, I will provide my observation learned over lots of trial and error and many, many years. 

I believe that people are individuals and that what may work with one may not be optimal for the next. And even then things will change over time.

For example, my wife really, really enjoys PIV, but requires clitoral stimulation to orgasm almost always. There are a few positions that in her youth, where she could orgasm with PIV, but they require too much flexibility and muscle strength for her now that she is in her mid-60's. (missionary with legs straight held high in a V at just the right angle for her in the air) 

Again, for my wife sex if it is to be enjoyable has to be face to face. If I try any rear entry or spooning type of position, she just doesn't enjoy it. 

For some women doggy or spooning with reaching around to provide simultaneous clitoral stimulation was a real win win. Not my wife.

After my wife orgasms, she has told me that she really needs PIV as to her she just needs to feel me inside her. She says she really needs to feel that and to have me facing her when I orgasm. 

For me I can say that when I was overweight, nipple stimulation did nothing for me. Now it really results in much stronger orgasms. Also for me vigorous PIV is much better than a HJ. My wife will not do oral so it has been so long since I had a BJ, that I reeally can't remember what it felt like, except really good. I will say that vigorous PIV leaves me feeling slightly bruised and sore for the next day and it also leaves me much more satisfied than a HJ. But I am a guy.

Good luck to you. Whatever you and your wife enjoy is what the two of you should do. There is wrong right way for two people to have sex as long as both enjoy what is happening and it doesn't hurt either of them.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh and I advise you not to give her the book yet.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I understand and appreciate what you're all saying. I agree that PIV is a great way to connect and I love it when she gets off that way. I also know that she loves to see me get off and it means a lot to her. So much so that it created a problem when I tried anti depressants a few years ago and had trouble orgasming. I could stay hard indefinitely, but couldn't get off most of the time and it really bothered her. Enough that I stopped taking the meds. 

She does use oral as foreplay, but rarely to finish. To be honest, I think she'd like to finish me that way lots of times, but it can take longer than she likes and if I can give her some tips, it would speed things up and using her hands more would relieve the stress in her jaw. I just need to figure out how to give her gentle suggestions without offending her or making her self conscious. We would still have plenty of PIV finishes (and PIA as I think those can be even more intimate). It would just give us a little more variety and watching her touch and lick me like that feels more intimate to me than a lot of the intercourse we have, which can get repetitive.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Even though she doesn't seem to want to discuss it with you, I think you should still be direct and assertive in getting your needs/desires met. If you just said "hey baby, I would really like more oral, I love it and it feels amazing...tomorrow night, I'm going to set us up for some very intimate time but just oral/manual and no PIV. But then the next time we do have PIV, it is going to be that much more amazing". Kind of state it like that, rather than giving her a choice.

She might just take the information and smirk and say "oh ok then..." or act like you are being bossy. As long as she does not say "um NO" then just proceed as if you have her enthusiastic consent. It is possible she will be more likely to honor this request if she doesn't have to answer yes or no or explain anything.

But if she does say no, or starts talking about the topic as if she has anxiety or something...then change direction in your conversation, but only slightly. Hear her out for a short time, but then end the conversation by saying "ok ok, not tomorrow night then...but soon, baby". And try it again in a few weeks.

If you don't apologize for what you are wanting, and if you don't put it on her to make the decision of whether to forego PIV or not, and if you are not offering instruction about anything...she might just go with it and enjoy that you took the lead on it. No whining, no apologizing for what you want. (But also no acting entitled).

If not, if it is a hard "no", you will know. And if that is the case, drop the subject, regroup and rethink your angle. Another way may still be successful, so don't give up completely. Since she is willing to do it at all, she will likely be willing to grow with you a little bit (or more than a little).


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Start talking up the good parts of a bj ....the things she does well.... during sex, and later at intimate moments, like driving in the car, or in a text message. 

And really, I think women just try different things when blowing....hoping that it works for him. The trick is listening to and feeling his responses. So you have to be verbal during a bj. And this is a time to give tips....little tips, one at a time. If you do it when you're all turned on, she should take it for what it is.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

I always assumed men prefered PIV. I shows that they have the ability to satisfy a woman. I am wrong in that assumption I have realized in my 20 years of marriage. It is the time together and the attempt to giving another pleasure that makes sex what it is. 

For me personally I would definitely NOT recommend saying "you do this for me, and your payback will be wonderful the next time we do it". That would send fear straight thru me. There would be some much preformance anxiety that I would be nausaus. But that is me, and I don't have have the same experiences as everyone else and we are all different. 

My H is quite happy to take what ever he can get. PIV, HJ, whatever. Though he never gets BJ. (Almost never.) 

As far as getting your wife to do more. Be creative. Eat a banana in the car and lick it or suck it and say "God I wish you would do this to me" or randomly grasp a baseball bat while walking at wal mart and say "Boy if you woudl jsut grab my di*k with a little more force I would explode in a really good kinda way". or is she is eating ice cream comment something along the lines of "You are making me jealous, I like long licks like that to, or swirl your tongue around me like that please". Every day opportunities with every day items often provide the greatest opportunity for life lessons.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Tommy518 said:


> I ask because when I've mentioned that I like to O with a good HJ or BJ as much as PIV, I get a disbelieving response. Is it because women don't feel comfortable with their HJ or BJ skills and intercourse is just simpler/easier and safer for them, or is it that they think they won't be reciprocated when it's over?
> 
> I live with my GF and get her off orally 80% of the time (PIV the other 20 or both) and would happily take care of her before or after she takes care of me, so that takes out the latter. I do think she could use some advice on technique for HJ/BJ's, but I asked her one time if she'd be offended if I offered her tips and she said YES, as if all men like the same thing and all women are born with the skills (BTW, I occasionally ask her if I can do things differently and she always says I know her body better than she does, so I get no advice, which I would happily take). Is it possible that women (or she) just don't feel very confident that they'll do it right and are embarrassed to ask? If so, how does a man get around that?
> 
> ...



When Mrs.CuddleBug lets me go down on her and even to orgasm, she immediately pulls me up during her orgasm and wants PIV and me to orgasm as well. So ideally, she would like us to go together.

Realistically, not going to happen unless she uses her small vib on herself while PIV. Then yes.

Some ladies are built to have orgasms from PIV but unfortunately that is rare.

What is really important to Mrs.CuddleBug is making sure I orgasm when we have sex. Otherwise, she gets really upset.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I have not had PIV sex longer than we can remember. She found it uncomfortable as she got older and I prefer oral sex anyway. I feel it is more intimate. I would think that women think that most men want oral sex performed on them. That is the most often spoken thing among guys and most often requested of prostitutes. No one posts about their wife not having intercourse with them. They do post about their wives discontinuing oral sex though.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The issues you have on this topic with your wife are specific to your wife. Everyone is different...not all women are the same.

I was married to a man who was a lot like your wife... he would not discuss anything sexual. He would not take hints, did not want to hear about my preferences.

It's not a gender thing. It's just that some people have some hang ups.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

To us oral sex is the appetizer and PIV is the main course. We usually don't have oral sex unless we are going to have PIV too. I would be happy to perform oral on him if he asked me to without PIV but he doesn't like it alone and I don't either. He doesn't like HJ's, doesn't do anything for him. It's so impersonal.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Tommy518 said:


> Do all women think men prefer PIV orgasm?


Women are insanely emotional creatures. In my experience, almost ALL of them strongly prefer PIV orgasm (at least the ones who can get off that way). Sex is very personal for them sand they see it as bonding experience with their partners bringing you closer. So they want you to be "inside them" because that amplifies that frame of thought.

So it makes perfect sense why they would think men prefer it too. Basically, they think like women not men. Different needs, not to say some guys don't feel the same way but I think it's to a lessor extent. Much like the orgasm is nice for women but it's less important as the bonding. Some guys prefer PIV and some don't frankly don't care. Most are just happy to get off. An orgasm is an orgasm is an orgasm.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I just say this thread seems to focus solely on "sexual give and take" instead of promoting a "shared sexual experience." 

To me sexual give and take is basically taking turns to provide assisted masturbation. If this is all you are going for then yes, you have to dictate what you like in order to achieve satisfaction. If you are having this kind of sex, approaching orgasm is usually prompted with a bit of frustration and an urge to take matters into your own hands when the moment arrives. I often wonder how many couples never make it past this stage. 

To this thread I would say I experience just as much of not more pleasure through my wife's orgasms than I do my own. The sensations from this are best for me when experienced during gentle (if not virtually motionless) PIV. 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

In terms of intensity of an orgasm, I find a BJ/HJ more pleasurable. Of course the closeness/connection with PIV has its own merits, and in most cases I rather O that way then via BJ/HJ. Pretty frequently I get BJs but rarely let my wife finish because it is usually just the start of things (can't just get back at full attention in a few minutes like the good ole days lol). 

As far as anal, I was young and in prison so when in Rome ... >


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

My H prefers a BJ orgasm, this is one reason I don't want to do them or sex anymore. 
BJs used to be fun for me and I've been told I am quite good at them but they are not as connecting as PIV and there was nothing less sexy than thinking I was going to be having PIV and then getting asked for a BJ. Turned me right off of them.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I think I can safely say that the answer to any question that starts with "Do all women think..." is going to be "no".


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> My wife and I have not had PIV sex longer than we can remember. She found it uncomfortable as she got older and I prefer oral sex anyway. I feel it is more intimate. I would think that women think that most men want oral sex performed on them. That is the most often spoken thing among guys and most often requested of prostitutes. *No one posts about their wife not having intercourse with them. They do post about their wives discontinuing oral sex though.*


On this forum I have seen far more posts about wives no longer having intercourse usually in the form of an HD/LD couple where the stress of mismatched libido's has finally driven them apart, than I have seen posts about guys wishing their wife would give them a BJ like she did when they were younger.

Still as you point out, any form of sex between husband and wife is positive and a form of bonding and emotional connection. Good luck to you.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I like a lot of variation. What I enjoy most depends entirely on the sort of mood we are both in.


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My H prefers a BJ orgasm, this is one reason I don't want to do them or sex anymore.
> BJs used to be fun for me and I've been told I am quite good at them but they are not as connecting as PIV and there was nothing less sexy than thinking I was going to be having PIV and then getting asked for a BJ. Turned me right off of them.


Does he not reciprocate?


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm not looking for just a HJ or BJ, but another way of connecting. When I go down on her or use my hand, I go slow and try to look her in the eye and connect, and I'd like her to do the same. Obviously I'll need to ease into it. I'll work it slowly and I think she'll go with it when the time is right and with proper encouragement. She does like to please and so do I. Baby steps...


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I think it may have been the way you phrased it - instead of saying "I really love it when you (insert preferred method here)" or "I've been thinking about how incredible it would be if you ___" you are asking if you can give her tips. It implies that she is terrible. And unfortunately, that is even less likely to get her to want to perform. It'll become a source of anxiety and things will become worse not better. Focus on complimenting her when she does something you like. Is she open to your physical cues? For example, if you were to gently guide her with your hands to get closer to your preferred rhythm - again GENTLY - does she respond well to that? By focusing on what you do like and building on that rather than offering up helpful "suggestions," you'll be building on your relationship together, rather than her feeling like she is being graded every time you're together. Does that make sense?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women are insanely emotional creatures. In my experience, almost ALL of them strongly prefer PIV orgasm (at least the ones who can get off that way). Sex is very personal for them sand they see it as bonding experience with their partners bringing you closer. So they want you to be "inside them" because that amplifies that frame of thought.
> 
> So it makes perfect sense why they would think men prefer it too. Basically, they think like women not men. Different needs, not to say some guys don't feel the same way but I think it's to a lessor extent. *Much like the orgasm is nice for women but it's less important as the bonding.* Some guys prefer PIV and some don't frankly don't care. Most are just happy to get off. An orgasm is an orgasm is an orgasm.


Uh...I'd much rather prefer the orgasm..

I don't think all men prefer PIV orgasm. Like a lot people said here...It's all relative...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

intheory said:


> ... then telling me that "so and so does it this way" or "the author of this book said to do it that way"
> 
> Doesn't do it for me at all. I like the feeling of discovery with each other.
> 
> I want my sex life for me and him. *Others stay away.*


OMG, I once purchased my wife a book on a woman's guide to tantric sex. I had also purchased a companion book for myself that was a men's guide. I thought it would be fun to read them together and then explore.
@intheory you could have saved me a years worth of heartache by warning me!!!!!

My wife threw the book at me and told me "good luck on reading about better female orgasms all by yourself because that is all you get thinking I need to read this book!"


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women are insanely emotional creatures. In my experience, almost ALL of them strongly prefer PIV orgasm (at least the ones who can get off that way). Sex is very personal for them sand they see it as bonding experience with their partners bringing you closer. So they want you to be "inside them" because that amplifies that frame of thought.
> 
> So it makes perfect sense why they would think men prefer it too. Basically, they think like women not men. Different needs, not to say some guys don't feel the same way but I think it's to a lessor extent. *Much like the orgasm is nice for women but it's less important as the bonding*. Some guys prefer PIV and some don't frankly don't care. Most are just happy to get off. An orgasm is an orgasm is an orgasm.


Who told you this lie? Sorry but it simply a gross generalisation and incorrect information to perpetuate.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Holland said:


> Who told you this lie? Sorry but it simply a gross generalisation and incorrect information to perpetuate.


Agreed. Wha??? Orgasms are less important than bonding? No. At least, not for me. This seems like the kind of thing a woman says to a man to make him feel better after an unfruitful attempt to make her come.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I prefer a BJ or HJ orgasm to PIV, but only because in those cases I can let myself go more. Essentially, I don't have to do any work. Sounds selfish, but it's not. It rarely happens, anyway... 

On the flip side, my wife prefers a PIV orgasm for her. First woman I've been with who's been capable of them, and first woman I've heard of to whom a PIV orgasm is a requirement of sex, despite her ability to have multiple oral orgasms. If she doesn't have a PIV orgasm during sex, then it's a failure. I learned that early on... :smile2:


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Tommy518 said:


> I asked her one time if she'd be offended if I offered her tips and she said YES
> Thoughts?


Don't offer her tips, just let her know when something feels good by moaning, or simply saying "Oh God! That feels so good!" Encourage her with your reactions, and when she really makes you feel good, perhaps just let loose and cum right away instead of holding back. Your quicker response might encourage her to keep at it!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Holland said:


> Who told you this lie? Sorry but it simply a gross generalisation and incorrect information to perpetuate.





joannacroc said:


> Agreed. Wha??? Orgasms are less important than bonding? No. At least, not for me. This seems like the kind of thing a woman says to a man to make him feel better after an unfruitful attempt to make her come.


Before my wife and I started dating, we talked a lot about things, sex chief among them. She only had an O in about 50% of her encounters, and had never had a PIV O. This is something she actually said...that the O for her was nice but it was the feelings of closeness she was after.

Turns out, she was just trying to accept reality as she had known it, and not knowing it could be any different. Selfish partners only after their own satisfaction where the only time there was any closeness or intimacy was during sex. At the same time, she was trying to minimize my expectation by taking pressure off of me.

Once we started dating and sleeping together, there was closeness and intimacy in every aspect of our relationship, in and out of the bedroom. It took a while of having at least one O in every encounter, discovering she is multi orgasmic, and can in fact have PIV O's, that now, yeah, the closeness during sex is nice and all, but it's the O she's after.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Holland said:


> Who told you this lie? Sorry but it simply a gross generalisation and incorrect information to perpetuate.


Every single woman I've slept with. You women denying this, are you sure your still attracted to your SO's? How could not you think bonding with someone you were in love with wouldn't be important? I know some women will can have fwb situations where they just want to get laid. Plenty of marriages turn into that where the partners become roommates.




joannacroc said:


> This seems like the kind of thing a woman says to a man to make him feel better after an unfruitful attempt to make her come.


That does sound like it haha... I've never not made a women cum. Though a few have been outside PIV as they "claimed" they have never orgasmed that way. It's easy once you figure their vaginas out. It's amazing how radically different women's preferences are. What will make one women cum in 30 seconds may not work at all on the next one.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> To us oral sex is the appetizer and PIV is the main course. We usually don't have oral sex unless we are going to have PIV too. I would be happy to perform oral on him if he asked me to without PIV but he doesn't like it alone and I don't either. He doesn't like HJ's, doesn't do anything for him. It's so impersonal.


EXACTLY! The way I feel. When I finish it will be PIV I do not want to any other way. When my wife mentions the word sex I cringe...to me its MUCH MORE and calling it having sex is to diminish the act. But after all I'm a romantic....love chick flicks and also a kill'em all sort of guy.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

peacem said:


> I'm at a loss how couples can have good sex if they don't teach one another. We left this way too late. If I could give couples who are just starting out any advice is to teach each other about what feels good and your preferences, put the ego to one side. My H has taught me about HJ's and I have taught him about some things that I like (e.g playing with his nipple so he knows exactly what feels good to me). ....And then things change and we need to re-teach each other. I don't believe anyone instinctively knows exactly what to do without some verbal instructions because we are all so different.


In general I think sex is still an uncomfortable topic to discuss b/w two people, and for many people it takes time to get there. I am sure there are guys who feel like if they asked for guidance they would be viewed as weak (i.e a real man would know what to do). On top of that, I think a lot of younger guys turn to porn for their ideas on how sex is supposed to go, so they think they have it figured out already. There are probably females who either don't want to hurt a guys ego or seem bossy. As well, some may be worried about being perceived as a slvt since women are not supposed to enjoy sex.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Every single woman I've slept with. You women denying this, are you sure your still attracted to your SO's? How could not you think bonding with someone you were in love with wouldn't be important? I know some women will can have fwb situations where they just want to get laid. Plenty of marriages turn into that where the partners become roommates.
> 
> ..........


So based on the women you have slept with you are able to make this huge incorrect assumption. 

No one has said that bonding with someone we love is not important. And yes I am "insanely" attracted to my SO, I want him daily, I cannot get enough of him at times. Life inside and outside of the bedroom is amazing and fulfilling.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I need orgasms. I would be extremely frustrated if I had infrequent or none. Frustration does not promote bonding or a desire to have sex. As it is, I have about an 80% hit rate. Any less than that would be suboptimal for me. 

The problem is in interpretation. Women will say they are OK with a missed orgasm at one session and that may be taken to mean that orgasms don't matter at all. She is saying that an occasional missed orgasm may be OK. The percentage of the misses that is tolerable depends on the woman. Communication is important to find out. If she won't talk, assume that orgasms are important. 

Naturally a person desires the peak experience of orgasms when they have sex. That's why we come back for more. Without orgasms, it is a mechanical and frustrating act not worth the time. Bonding can be strengthened by affection and communication.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Holland said:


> Who told you this lie? Sorry but it simply a gross generalization and incorrect information to perpetuate.


(Sitting on my hands for the rest of the day) I have never in my life been so tempted to get banned. and not just Hollands attitude filled rebuttal. The Whole thread.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> (Sitting on my hands for the rest of the day) I have never in my life been so tempted to get banned. and not just Hollands attitude filled rebuttal. The Whole thread.


Go on do it >

Attitude filled rebuttal? You are reading too much into a monotone form of communication. As it is I, as everyone online are free to disagree. I completely disagree with the PPs comment and as such feel free to say so.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> In general I think sex is still an uncomfortable topic to discuss b/w two people, and for many people it takes time to get there. I am sure there are guys who feel like if they asked for guidance they would be viewed as weak (i.e a real man would know what to do). On top of that, I think a lot of younger guys turn to porn for their ideas on how sex is supposed to go, so they think they have it figured out already. There are probably females who either don't want to hurt a guys ego or seem bossy. As well, some may be worried about being perceived as a slvt since women are not supposed to enjoy sex.


There are so many good books now with current info. Creditable research on human sexuality that include female subjects have only recently been published. Before that, women were assumed to be like men. Vaginal orgasm within a few minutes was considered the standard. Women who didn't orgasm vaginally were considered frigid or broken.

Research has shown that 70% of women can't orgasm vaginally and those that do need more than a few minutes. If a man is having sex based on info about female sexuality that he learned more than 15 years ago, his wife may not be having orgasms. If he thinks it does not matter, he may be incorrect.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

baiting, I like it.

OK as safely as I can then I'm getting out of the office so you'll have to just deal with it.

Much of what we actually do in life is generalized. I deal with generalizations all Day. The basis of this thread is a generalization, and probably a gross one. 

Relationships are started continued, and ended based on generalizations. 

Some of My Favorites:
Tall men are attractive.
Short men are dishonest.
Women Date bad boys, but Marry Nice Guys.
Australian Women have large noses. <gratuitous Dig>

Now we have this member here on TAM who has worked tirelessly, even on holidays, especially on holidays, to inform everyone what men "generally" prefer sexually. and it isn't PIV. That should be all the answer this thread needs. 

George Zimmerman said "What men want is simple? What men need is complicated."

As to what women want? Try this: The Rules

And Thank you for encouraging me to post this please take it in the light mood it was intended on a Friday afternoon.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Actually my very straight, in proportion nose is one of my best features 

Generalisations (especially those based on one persons very limited experience) are a poor basis for making conclusions about the opposite gender. I disagree with them being used to label either gender, if that is a problem for you then so be it. 

If people believe these generalisations then they are setting themselves up for failure, I am A OK to state an objection to ill founded generalisations as it is ridiculous to perpetuate ill conceived information about ALL women or ALL men. 

As for the link, I don't follow any links off forums so cannot comment on its content.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr. Nail said:


> baiting, I like it.
> 
> OK as safely as I can then I'm getting out of the office so you'll have to just deal with it.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead: you mean we should only discuss bj? But there have been so many discussions of bj already.

I find some of the tangential posts informative in a good way.

Useful generalizations are based on the broad summation of accurate observations. Aggregate summaries of faulty observations are what myths are made of.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I see that you are incapable of taking this lightly. I also see that you immediately reject any generalization about any group you belong to. Sentence deleted to prevent banning.

Generally, generalizations are all we have to work with. After being married for close to three decades to a specific woman, much of the Advice I get is very General. When I am confused about something specific she is doing where do I go? To general generic generalizations. We don't throw out helpful generalizations, just because they don't apply to Holland and Slowly Going Crazy. If so we could throw out all advice, because the exception proves the rule.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I could not be taking your posts any more lightly. 

A PP made an unfounded statement I and others disagreed with and regardless of your opposition to the fact, we are free to say so.

The PA comments about having to sit on your hands as I piss you off so badly are getting tiresome, just do it for goodness sake. Either that or just get over the fact that my preference is for tall, non knife wielding men.


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

It is my opinion that most the overwhelming majority of women enjoy the sensation of a man climaxing in their vagina. My wife enjoys it immensely and the sensation even brings her to orgasm. She is very fortunate as she can easily O multipiles with PIV only. 

That said it is hard for her (and perhaps many women) to accept or comprehend that a man would want to orgasm any other way. Make no mistake, there is nothing that quite compares to the sensation of PIV from a "total experience" perspective. I get to please my wife in the way she prefers while simultaniously stimulating myself. It is quite a turn on and often brings me to O by watching her. It is one of life's most profound experienced between 2 people and i love it. I get it, point taken, case closed. 

That said, for me personally I have to admit that I have experienced earth shattering, toe curling O's through oral or by my own hand. The latter is something that I have done for myself for 18 years prior to meeting my wife. This is probably true of most men. I have gotten more practice than I perhaps care to admit. For me when climax during PIV I am busy working on my moves and on pleasing my wife. As an alpha male every encounter with my wife is an effort to try and maximize her pleasure. I do this for altruistic reasons and to keep her coming (or cumming) back for more. That said when I O durring masturbation (mutual or alone) or through oral. I can more or less sit back, relax and savor the experience and feel all of the sensations associated with my O without the distractions associated with PIV. I can also edge (google it) vary the tempo,how strong my P is being gripped, can have my balls caressed, licked...etc. The variation it how I am being stimulated changes the experience. In addition, it is fun to see how big my load is and how far it will travel. I find the whole thing erotic. This may sound strange to women and some men and makes me feel silly writing it. Then again where else but, on an anonomous forum. Granted PIV will and should always stay as the go to for sex but, sometimes something a little different is nice. 

Perhaps there is a way to explaln this to my wife and the op to GF without them thinking we think less of PIV O's. I was thinking a food analogy would be appropriate IE PIV is filet mignot, bj is lobster and mastubation is a burger and fries. Sometimes i have a taste for one or the other. Not taking away the supremecy of the filet. Perhaps the OP could approach it that way.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

nothing like just kicking back and letting your partner please you with their hands and mouth. them reading your body and with love and enthusiasm giving you the best they have.

while piv is great there's much more work evolved. 

reciprocation is always a must. can't be selfish and let your partner do for you without returning the favor. If you don't give oral you should not be ok with receiving it. That's just plane selfish!!!!! and nobody likes a selfish lover.


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> There are so many good books now with current info. Creditable research on human sexuality that include female subjects have only recently been published. Before that, women were assumed to be like men. Vaginal orgasm within a few minutes was considered the standard. Women who didn't orgasm vaginally were considered frigid or broken.
> 
> Research has shown that 70% of women can't orgasm vaginally and those that do need more than a few minutes. If a man is having sex based on info about female sexuality that he learned more than 15 years ago, his wife may not be having orgasms. If he thinks it does not matter, he may be incorrect.


Totally agree, there is allot of good material out there that we can learn, including this forum. One of the things that I have learned from each is that sexual response varies tremendously. Differences between the genders and even among genders continues to amaze and often perplex me at times. 

Catherine, Luckily the media has metorphorically ***** slapped the male population to recognize the basics of female O. Any man that has moved out from under a rock should recognize the need for many women to have direct clitoral stimulation to O. 

As in many aspects of the human response ego and pride are can prevent people from learning. If I remotely suggested my wife read a book about sex she would take it personally. Perhaps leading by example and professing my own desire to learn and my own relative naivety in matters of this kind would set the proper foundation with which to move forward. I also have found that when I demonstrate to my wife how I like to be stimulated, and making it more personal than generic sets the stage that it is not "general information" that would apply to all men and therefore that any women should know but, to me personally lowers her defenses and sets the stage for reciprocation to share with me. One thing I learned from my wife is how circular motions are more effective on her then up and down. I would have never learned this without our mutual masturbation sessions.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I bond and feel most connected directly after my O when I'm coming back down in his arms. 



BetrayedDad said:


> That does sound like it haha... I've never not made a women cum. Though a few have been outside PIV as they "claimed" they have never orgasmed that way. It's easy once you figure their vaginas out. It's amazing how radically different women's preferences are. What will make one women cum in 30 seconds may not work at all on the next one.


The vast majority of women can not O with PIV alone. They need clitoral stimulation as well. It's not "claiming". 

My "it's ok hun, I don't need one tonight, I just want to bond with you" = "this isn't working right now and to get me there is going to be too much work and not worth it so move on" 


IMO some women don't put enough importance on their O. They "it's ok hunny" it away and get into bad habits of pleasing their partner without getting an O themselves. You do that for a few years because you're happy and love to give but eventually you're own taker gets all pissed off and you get resentful and stop wanting sex altogether, stop wanting to give anything.

If a guy was giving his wife an O every time but she was only reciprocating with an O for him some of the time, half, 75%... he may be ok with it for a while, love and all, but eventually most feel the inequality and don't like it very much. 

The fact that my H doesn't (or didn't) think that a woman would need an O every time, that quickies were no big deal, that not every event had to involve the "big production" of foreplay, getting me to O and then himself, that because I could give a 5 minute bj or quickie and go about my day vs. spending 20 to make me O, that he would never even think about me wanting a stand-alone anything-- all this has a lot to do with why our sex life is so F*ed up and there's so much resentment there.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lifeisbetterthanalternat said:


> Totally agree, there is allot of good material out there that we can learn, including this forum. One of the things that I have learned from each is that sexual response varies tremendously. Differences between the genders and even among genders continues to amaze and often perplex me at times.
> 
> Catherine, Luckily the media has metorphorically ***** slapped the male population to recognize the basics of female O. Any man that has moved out from under a rock should recognize the need for many women to have direct clitoral stimulation to O.
> 
> As in many aspects of the human response ego and pride are can prevent people from learning. If I remotely suggested my wife read a book about sex she would take it personally. Perhaps leading by example and professing my own desire to learn and my own relative naivety in matters of this kind would set the proper foundation with which to move forward. I also have found that when I demonstrate to my wife how I like to be stimulated, and making it more personal than generic sets the stage that it is not "general information" that would apply to all men and therefore that any women should know but, to me personally lowers her defenses and sets the stage for reciprocation to share with me. One thing I learned from my wife is how circular motions are more effective on her then up and down. I would have never learned this without our mutual masturbation sessions.


I should have added that the proportion of women who don't know much about female sexuality probably equals men. I didn't know until I read books and posts from sex positive women on this site. So it's not just men, it's more a cultural phenomena. 

Virginal women of marital material are not overly interested in sex until she meets the man who will commit. I think men have it right, they freely explore and know their bodies sexually with little shame.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I bond and feel most connected directly after my O when I'm coming back down in his arms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This aspect of low sex or sexless marriages is rarely discussed. I think it is more common than we think. The wife may have been willing to have mildly pleasant sex in the early years but could not keep it up for decades. 

It's common for men and women to think that o's don't matter to women. If they haven't had orgasms in partnered sex, they may think that it is normal or that something is wrong with them. They don't know that it's the o's that make the work to get there worthwhile.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This aspect of low sex or sexless marriages is rarely discussed. I think it is more common than we think. The wife may have been willing to have mildly pleasant sex in the early years but could not keep it up for decades.
> 
> It's common for men and women to think that o's don't matter to women. If they haven't had orgasms in partnered sex, they may think that it is normal or that something is wrong with them. They don't know that it's the o's that make the work to get there worthwhile.


Yep, and we are told too that "women don't always need an orgasm" and we just want the bonding, the attention, so it can feel selfish and almost slVtty to be like ya, I want an O just as much as you do buddy.

Men very rarely have to explain to their wives that they want to O every time. Him getting off is a given.

You look at threads about if the women get standalone oral sex or orgasms and it's very, very few who do. Many of the women will say it would just feel weird or selfish to not get him off after, whereas more men seem to have much less issues with getting standalone orgasms. 

They don't think it's weird if she only Os 75% of the time, or if she gives standalone Os to him but doesn't get any for herself. But if you treat women like sex and Os don't matter as much to them, how are you going to end up with a wife who cares and wants sex as much as them?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

You say it takes women 20 mins to O? Why? You're right some do take that long. Others I've been were able to cum in less than five minutes on a regular basis. You see it more in the beginning of a relationship where the lust factor is higher and the women are more horny because the relationship is new and exciting. Guy prematurely ejaculates he's got an issue, woman take 20 minutes to get off and that's supposed to be par for the course. No hypocracy there....

Do you know what organ is most responsible for orgasms? It's not the genitalia but the brain. Humans are not cows where you just pull on their tits until milk goes out. How much responsibility are you taking for YOUR orgasm? Do you help your partner or just lay their like a starfish expecting them to make you cum like a significant segment of the population does. 

I agree with you there are many selfish lovers and sex is a team sport. But if you don't coach or assist the other player then don't be surprised when you lose the game. I said "claiming" because I think almost all women ARE capable of cumming from PIV. The road blocks there are almost always mental. Same reason why it's taking 20 minutes to cum. There's always some undiscussed issue at play.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

20 minutes (which includes foreplay) is pretty average and reasonable, IMO. 

80% of women can't O with PIV alone and need clitoral stimulation. It's not mental, it's biology. The clit is our sex organ. It'd be like trying to get you to O using just your balls. Might feel good but unless you get some penis attention, isn't likely to get you to the finish line.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yep, and we are told too that "women don't always need an orgasm" and we just want the bonding, the attention, so it can feel selfish and almost slVtty to be like ya, I want an O just as much as you do buddy.
> 
> Men very rarely have to explain to their wives that they want to O every time. Him getting off is a given.
> 
> ...


I find this interesting myself. I always, maybe once or twice not, give Mrs. Conan O's during sex. I have given her one O without me receiving or even my penis being touched.

I was fine with it but she doesn't like to receive without giving. I'm the same.

I taught a younger man the same principle I employ of "ladies first" and they are doing fantastic now with her desiring sex with him very often, they were formerly having issues. She didn't even think she wanted sex.

I guess I don't understand the concept of women climaxing less than men. Mrs. Conan can go two or three times to my one. Why waste all that fun?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

Holland said:


> So based on the women you have slept with you are able to make this huge incorrect assumption.
> 
> No one has said that bonding with someone we love is not important. And yes I am "insanely" attracted to my SO, I want him daily, I cannot get enough of him at times. Life inside and outside of the bedroom is amazing and fulfilling.


Right. I want my wife to have a piv orgasm but it is hit or miss so i try to make sure she has one before piv
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

The only way I can O from PIV, is if I'm on top...if my fiance is on top, I rarely O. But, he enjoys bringing me to orgasm, before PIV...and I like the feeling of PIV after I've had an orgasm. We are very open about what we like and don't like, without getting offended.


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## AngelHeart888 (Jun 21, 2016)

LOL!!!
How would I know what ALL women think? (By virtue of being one?)
Nor would I know what ALL men prefer.
What I know/think is that one should get to know one's partner. Everyone has differing preferences. It's all good.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I know that my husband likes it all. Oral, HJs, PIV, anal. Just depends on his mood at the time.

As far as what I'm doing, he's vocal. If what I'm doing gets a reaction, I'm gonna keep on doing it! If I'm doing something and he's not making much of a reaction, I'm going to switch to something else until I GET a reaction. He tells me what to do occasionally. Go slow. Squeeze harder. Play with the twins. If he's directing, I'm taking my orders!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

No, we all don't think that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Tommy518 said:


> I considered getting her Dr Sadie's "Tickle his Pickle", but thought she'd be offended that I was inferring she doesn't know what she's doing. I've read several books on cunnilingus, positions, dirty talk, etc to know what women like in bed, so I certainly wouldn't think less of her or see any problem with her doing a little research.
> 
> Thoughts?


 This is a good one....

Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man (Kerner) 


> , in Passionista, it's time to learn all about what turns men onand makes them stay on. In this point-by-point, "blow-by-blow" guide, Kerner makes giving as much fun as receiving as he covers every angle of male sexuality, unlocks the secrets of satisfaction, and offers knowledgeable answers to the questions every woman wonders about. His advice is the closest you'll ever come to waking up in a guy's skin and knowing what truly makes him sexually tick.


Every man is different in what they prefer ...also the dynamics of the couple play into this as well...

My H does prefer PIV over anything else.. he's told me this...it's because we always climax together.. I miss now & then but very rarely....Even he was missing it sometimes when My drive was in overdrive... 

These books could be passionately inspirational and even a turn on... (I loved them!) ...but she has to have the desire to go there with you, to bring your intimacy to new heights , spicing things up.. 

I had it incessantly when I bought them.. I picked up "Tickle his pickle" too ... anything to jump start him ... I wanted to devour it..


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

SimplyAmorous;

Thanks for bringing this thread out of retirement and adding a nice resource for those that may wonder about this topic.

It is a topic that many of us deal with again and again over time.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Big Mama said:


> As far as getting your wife to do more. Be creative. Eat a banana in the car and lick it or suck it and say "God I wish you would do this to me"


Be careful about that one depending on your wife. Doing that may make you look homosexual, something my wife in particular finds to a huge turn off. She expects me to be a "manly man" at all times, which means nothing that looks like boy/boy contact.


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