# I'm a bad guy



## Ozymandius

I will start with the basics... I'm 59 years old, twice divorced, father of 3 children (2 living) who is currently married (16 years) to my best friend... who has many wonderful qualities, but who I have lately been seen as more of a roommate. 

My first wife (great beauty, low morals) started serial affairs after 12 years of marriage (and 3 children) and it took me three years to catch on. After never-ending lies and mind games I filed for divorce and became a part-time dad. I kept up daily contact with the kids and made it work, somewhat. (I became quite depressed through all this)

A couple years later i married a much younger woman (who needed me so much) and started over... 

After 3 months of 'wedded bliss' my youngest child died of an asthma attack... I was grief stricken, and wife #2 took the opportunity to reconnect with an old boyfriend... I found out and moved out a few months later

My 'current wife' was my clerkship student (I am a healthcare professional who precepts interns and teaches college courses a long with my professional career) - she was an older student (divorcee) and we became friends during her rotation... 
I resisted her friendship for quite a while... I was never getting married again...

She pursed me relentlessly and we married after a couple of years... And have become best friends.

We are doing ok... But this is my introduction

So... Hello


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## Uptown

Welcome, Ozy, poetic physician. Nice introduction! You don't sound bad to me.


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## EleGirl

So, why are you a bad guy?


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## Ozymandius

As the late Paul Harvey would say... "Now, for the rest of the story..."

My first wife's unfaithfulness nearly killed me... I was blindsided with the information after 15 years of marriage and 3 kids... I can still remember every detail of where and when I was told about her deceptions... She 'gas-lighted' me so well I considered breaking into a "Mail Boxes Etc" when I found out she had a secret P.O. box there... through counselling and clinging to my kids I barely dodged suicide... And i finally just had enough lies and divorced her without ever finding out the details of her multiple affairs... 

So I swore I would never do that to another man... 

My current wife knew that I was not 'in love' when we married... Like I said... She became, through much effort on her part, my friend... and after her relentless pursuit I figured 'why not' ...we are good friends. I was 45 years old and twice divorced and busy working and teaching... and she had love enough for both of us...

I sound like a chauvanist... but I just always was attracted to needy, helpless women... And T was and is the polar opposite of needy and helpless... But we slowly became best friends (she is smart and hard-working and a great cook) and love blossomed... Things went well for the next 15 years...

Last year, a change in CEO put my career in jeopardy and I fought despairingly for my job for the last 18 months... Stressed out at work... I checked out at home... There was a lot of distance growing between me and T... I was pulling away, but I blamed her for the lack of affection and closemness... (She was fine with her horses, and was 'giving me space')

About two months ago a former college student began attending a series of my public presentations... She had been enrolled in one of my classes eight years previously... I remembered her as poised, beautiful, and quiet... We barely spoke in or after class.... She was an A student... a dozen years younger than me, married (ring check), as was I, and clearly out of my league (even if I were younger, richer, single, and better looking...)

Now after 8 years she is seeking me out, ostensibly for medical advice... She looked beautiful, but sad and tired...

She told me she had been being treated for Multiple Sclerosis (monoclonal antibody IV therapy) for the last three years... And she was wanting to stop her therapy... I told her that the therapy would give her a dozen or more productive years... And stopping it would cause a rebound in rapid MS progression that would leave her 2 years or less to live... I asked why was she considering this drastic step... And she told me it was to get away from her hateful, abusive husband (btw - 2 kids and 27 years of marriage)

I asked her why she didn't leave him and she said he wouldn't let her... (???). 

So did she understand what I told her about stopping her therapy? Yes, her specialist to!d her the same thing previously...

Why did she need to hear it from me? 

She then told me she had been in love with me since that semester 8 years ago... I was her dream lover, her daydream companion for all her lonely days and nights, etc... I was the only man in the world for her...

I reminded her of our respective spouses... She responded with tears and a plea to listen to her explain her desire for me... I was enthralled... An awful work situation (gone from star employee to over-the-hill) 
And a distant ''friend without benefits" at home.... and this lovely, needy, helpless woman was offering me her heart and soul.. (did I mention she was beautiful?)

Conversations after presentations led to lengthy emails, to gushy texts, to promises of help and caring (and now a damsel to rescue!)

So... After a few weeks we were off in a fantasy world that had no pesky spouses, marriage committments, or moral obligations...

We texted and emailed throughout the days... We met three times for coffee - there were a few furtive hugs and a couple of kisses... We were more in love than any two people have ever been... 

We quickly agreed that there would be no physical relations until we were both divorced and free... Still with no idea how to move from fantasy to reality... 

Well, after about five weeks of "limerance" we were found out by her husband via her phone...

Reality crashed in on us and we scrambled to break off communication ... She wanted to 'go underground' with burner cellphones... I said no more anything until she filed for divorce... She said she couldn't see her self doing that... I ended it all right then... Confused as hell as to why she would stay with that abusive man...

He called my CEO and I was fired the next day... (last straw) and I had to go home and face the music... (I never blamed anyone for that but me)


T was angry and disappointed... i told her the basics - about the feelings and the talks (I left out the kisses and the emojies). 

Now I am looking for a job. T is satisfied that there was no sex and it is over... 

We are moving past this... And doing quite well in the closeness and affection department

But I can't stop thinking about the other woman... 

I have sworn off all contact... But when will the feelings end?

I am a bad guy... (Advanced degrees and all)




'


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## sunsetmist

Ozymandius--the poem reminds powerful people that their power is only temporary. However much powerful people may wish to think that their power is immortal, they are only deceiving themselves.

You have done what you swore you would never do--knowing how heinous it felt. Then you trickle-truthed to wife. You would have left wife for gf if gf would have chosen to divorce. May the closeness and affection department between you and wife blow up in your face O Man of Many Excuses. Perhaps gf's husband will contact your wife with the truth.

Yeah-- i am a bad girl...


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## Violet28

Ozymandius said:


> I sound like a chauvanist... but I just always was attracted to needy, helpless women...


What's your mom like?



Ozymandius said:


> Last year, a change in CEO put my career in jeopardy and I fought despairingly for my job for the last 18 months... Stressed out at work... I checked out at home... There was a lot of distance growing between me and T... I was pulling away, but I blamed her for the lack of affection and closemness... (She was fine with her horses, and was 'giving me space')


She was also one of your students and you were in a power position over her. Did the CEO know about you using your job to score on women?



Ozymandius said:


> About two months ago a former college student began attending a series of my public presentations... She had been enrolled in one of my classes eight years previously... I remembered her as poised, beautiful, and quiet... We barely spoke in or after class.... She was an A student... a dozen years younger than me, married (ring check), as was I, and clearly out of my league (even if I were younger, richer, single, and better looking...)


Shocker, another student. Didn't your university or organization have rules against this?



Ozymandius said:


> Now after 8 years she is seeking me out, ostensibly for medical advice... She looked beautiful, but sad and tired...


She's vulnerable. 



Ozymandius said:


> She then told me she had been in love with me since that semester 8 years ago... I was her dream lover, her daydream companion for all her lonely days and nights, etc... I was the only man in the world for her...


Fantasy and likely not based on the reality of who you are.



Ozymandius said:


> I was enthralled... An awful work situation (gone from star employee to over-the-hill)
> And a distant ''friend without benefits" at home.... and this lovely, needy, helpless woman was offering me her heart and soul.. (did I mention she was beautiful?)
> 
> Conversations after presentations led to lengthy emails, to gushy texts, to promises of help and caring (and now a damsel to rescue!)
> 
> So... After a few weeks we were off in a fantasy world that had no pesky spouses, marriage committments, or moral obligations...
> We texted and emailed throughout the days... We met three times for coffee - there were a few furtive hugs and a couple of kisses... We were more in love than any two people have ever been...
> 
> We quickly agreed that there would be no physical relations until we were both divorced and free... Still with no idea how to move from fantasy to reality...


Sounds like you both needed a sharp pinch to wake you up!



Ozymandius said:


> Well, after about five weeks of "limerance" we were found out by her husband via her phone...
> 
> Reality crashed in on us and we scrambled to break off communication ... She wanted to 'go underground' with burner cellphones... I said no more anything until she filed for divorce... She said she couldn't see her self doing that... I ended it all right then... Confused as hell as to why she would stay with that abusive man...


Oh goodness! The sharp knife of reality.



Ozymandius said:


> T was angry and disappointed... i told her the basics - about the feelings and the talks (I left out the kisses and the emojies).
> 
> Now I am looking for a job. T is satisfied that there was no sex and it is over...
> 
> We are moving past this... And doing quite well in the closeness and affection department


Does T know that you planned to leave her and still aren't being truthful?

Granted, all I know of you is that you have twice scooped up women who probably idealized you since you were in a power position over them and are now trying to excuse your actions with the flimsy excuses of 'I'm a bad guy' and 'attracted to needy, helpless women'. Perhaps they seem needy and helpless because you are their superior and they come to you for help, teaching and support? 

You are 59, you really don't have a lot of years left to make excuses for yourself about what you've done in your life. T is not moving past it because she doesn't know the full extent of what you've done. She is in a little 'fairy tale' you created for her with your failure to own up to the truth. What happens when the fantasy world gives way to reality? 

Your problem is not the women in your life, your problem is you.


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## EleGirl

Have you really ended all contact with the other woman? When was the last time you spoke to her, or get email, a text, or a phone call from her? Or seen her in person?

What happened is that your emotional affair with her (asumming that really is all it was) caused your brain to produce and update large amounts of dompamine, oxytocin and other feel good hormones. In some ways it's similar to being addicted to cocaine... but throw in the bonding hormones on top of that.

How long will it take for your infatuation with her to end? Don't know. But what I do know is that it will go away sooner if you never see her again and/or never have any more contact with you. You also need to stop thinking about her because even thinking about her gets all those good brain chemicals saturating your brain.

You are not in love with her. What you are is hooked on all those feel-good, bonding, chemicals.

Like any addict the only way to end the addition is to avoid the source of the addiction.


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## Adelais

Yes, all your advanced degrees didn't make you loyal and compassionate to your wife, or impermeable to self destruction. I _almost_ felt sorry for you.

That is, until I remembered that you and the OW were so _in lourve_ you were committed to divorcing your spouses so you could marry each other. Those emotions and that level of scheming are as destructive to a marriage as having multiple sexual affairs is.

When the husband found out, why didn't you both just get divorced and follow through with your plan? Even if the OW went back to her husband, why did you go back to your wife, if you wanted to divorce her for OW anyway? Your wife is now "Plan B" and she doesn't know it. 

She needs to know what you and the OW had planned in order to make an informed decision about whether to stay with you or not.

It is funny that you both threw each other under the bus. That's real "love." The feelings will go away if you stay away from OW and when you realize she wasn't a princess and you won't her knight in shining armour, but you both were two cheaters using each other to hide from the reality of your own lives.


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## personofinterest

Eloquent writing doesn't change the ugliness. Surely you know that.

You cheated. Plain and simple. You could have said it in 100 words instead of a thousand.

End it for good, come completely clean, get into counseling, and do what needs to be done.


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## Ozymandius

My reply...

1) I know I was unfaithful to my wife... and I am the only one to blame
2) T has been contacted by the angry spouse and told everything... 
3) we have been on the brink of divorce twice before due to my psychological issues (which now includes infidelity and deceit)
4) my PTSD and my affair and other issues are being addressed in psychological counselling...
5) the EA never went past hugs and a couple of kisses... Guilt and shame kept it from proceeding further...
6) the OW claimed to be in an abusive relationship... then when confronted with our communication decided to remain with her husband... my marriage was distant... but not terrible (until I wandered)
7) I told the OW that she had to get away from her abuser... She was angry when I said I was going to try to work it out with my wife... 
8) every day that passes I feel more ridiculous and ashamed about the emotional affair...
9) I came here for a reality-check on my behavior... So, thanks for the truth.
10) it is obvious to me that I didn't appreciate/deserve my wife... I had caused the distance between us...
11) I don't know why she wants to work this out with me... every passing day I am more amazed by her grace and forgiveness... 
12) I offered to move out and give her everything... She told me she wanted me to stay and work it out...
13) I removed all passwords in my phone and computer... No contact apps either
12) we both closed all social media accounts...
13) after lurking here for a couple of weeks and then this introduction... I have noticed a significant reduction in my desire to contact the OW. I am grateful.
14) there has been no contact of any kind by either side... I see my wife with new eyes... and I obviously was not the man the OW thought I was...
15) my wife is plan A from now on... She chooses to believe me... and I choose to accept her forgiveness on her terms... 
16) this still could blow up in my face... not because of new information... But because T decides I am not worth the trouble anymore ...
17) I am forever changed by this failure on my part to keep the commitments I made 16 years ago... and if I lose my wife... the loss will be greater since I now see her worth... but I will know that I chose to throw it all away...

Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone (or almost gone)


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## Adelais

You need to tell your wife your true intentions with the OW (to divorce your spouses and get married.) Without that information, she cannot make an informed decision as to whether or not she wants to stay with you.

You will never know if she would really want to stay with you had she known the truth if you refuse to tell her the truth.


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## personofinterest

Ozymandius said:


> My reply...
> 
> 1) I know I was unfaithful to my wife... and I am the only one to blame
> 2) T has been contacted by the angry spouse and told everything...
> 3) we have been on the brink of divorce twice before due to my psychological issues (which now includes infidelity and deceit)
> 4) my PTSD and my affair and other issues are being addressed in psychological counselling...
> 5) the EA never went past hugs and a couple of kisses... Guilt and shame kept it from proceeding further...
> 6) the OW claimed to be in an abusive relationship... then when confronted with our communication decided to remain with her husband... my marriage was distant... but not terrible (until I wandered)
> 7) I told the OW that she had to get away from her abuser... She was angry when I said I was going to try to work it out with my wife...
> 8) every day that passes I feel more ridiculous and ashamed about the emotional affair...
> 9) I came here for a reality-check on my behavior... So, thanks for the truth.
> 10) it is obvious to me that I didn't appreciate/deserve my wife... I had caused the distance between us...
> 11) I don't know why she wants to work this out with me... every passing day I am more amazed by her grace and forgiveness...
> 12) I offered to move out and give her everything... She told me she wanted me to stay and work it out...
> 13) I removed all passwords in my phone and computer... No contact apps either
> 12) we both closed all social media accounts...
> 13) after lurking here for a couple of weeks and then this introduction... I have noticed a significant reduction in my desire to contact the OW. I am grateful.
> 14) there has been no contact of any kind by either side... I see my wife with new eyes... and I obviously was not the man the OW thought I was...
> 15) my wife is plan A from now on... She chooses to believe me... and I choose to accept her forgiveness on her terms...
> 16) this still could blow up in my face... not because of new information... But because T decides I am not worth the trouble anymore ...
> 17) I am forever changed by this failure on my part to keep the commitments I made 16 years ago... and if I lose my wife... the loss will be greater since I now see her worth... but I will know that I chose to throw it all away...
> 
> Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone (or almost gone)


If you can continue the work with completely humility, no defensiveness, no impatience, and sincerity for 2-5 years....you may just make it.


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## BluesPower

Ozymandius said:


> My reply...
> 
> 1) I know I was unfaithful to my wife... and I am the only one to blame
> 2) T has been contacted by the angry spouse and told everything...
> 3) we have been on the brink of divorce twice before due to my psychological issues (which now includes infidelity and deceit)
> 4) my PTSD and my affair and other issues are being addressed in psychological counselling...
> 5) the EA never went past hugs and a couple of kisses... Guilt and shame kept it from proceeding further...
> 6) the OW claimed to be in an abusive relationship... then when confronted with our communication decided to remain with her husband... my marriage was distant... but not terrible (until I wandered)
> 7) I told the OW that she had to get away from her abuser... She was angry when I said I was going to try to work it out with my wife...
> 8) every day that passes I feel more ridiculous and ashamed about the emotional affair...
> 9) I came here for a reality-check on my behavior... So, thanks for the truth.
> 10) it is obvious to me that I didn't appreciate/deserve my wife... I had caused the distance between us...
> 11) I don't know why she wants to work this out with me... every passing day I am more amazed by her grace and forgiveness...
> 12) I offered to move out and give her everything... She told me she wanted me to stay and work it out...
> 13) I removed all passwords in my phone and computer... No contact apps either
> 12) we both closed all social media accounts...
> 13) after lurking here for a couple of weeks and then this introduction... I have noticed a significant reduction in my desire to contact the OW. I am grateful.
> 14) there has been no contact of any kind by either side... I see my wife with new eyes... and I obviously was not the man the OW thought I was...
> 15) my wife is plan A from now on... She chooses to believe me... and I choose to accept her forgiveness on her terms...
> 16) this still could blow up in my face... not because of new information... But because T decides I am not worth the trouble anymore ...
> 17) I am forever changed by this failure on my part to keep the commitments I made 16 years ago... and if I lose my wife... the loss will be greater since I now see her worth... but I will know that I chose to throw it all away...
> 
> Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone (or almost gone)


I was not going to say anything on your thread, and you list seems to indicate that you understand what a **** you are. 

But, brother, if you want a relationship, with a good woman, that loves you, then you know you have to get your **** together. 

You are not a ladies man, so don't let yourself go there anymore. 

And look I am a ladies man, or was, and some people thing that is great, it is not overall. 

But I can tell you that a committed with a woman that loves you, with good sex, is about the best thing in the world. 

You need to get out of your head, and leave it be. Enjoy what you have or for gods sake let it go. 

And you cannot just be like... OK, had an EA so lets get over it. It is time for you to put the time into your marriage that it deserves. 

That means a lot of things, being open, flirting, meeting her emotional needs, and banging her brains out every time you get the chance, whatever...

Please don't be stupid, do what you have to do to earn her back and make her feel safe. 

In my life, I have really hurt a lot of women that loved me, and they should not have, but they did. 

I am a little younger than you, but I carry that guilt everyday, and I think I will until I die...


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## sunsetmist

So, yesterday's posts, a lot of thought /work by TAM, then today's post. Are you still playing games?


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## turnera

Few things. First, some therapy would do you some good to figure out why you let your KISA aspect ruin your choices. 

Second, you need to educate yourself on what a real relationship looks like and how to keep it. Start by reading His Needs Her Needs by Harley. It will explain how you keep your marriage going and how YOU get enough out of it so that you don't keep looking for the next adoring fan.

Third, marriage is work. You've seen yourself that if you stop working on it, it devolves. It takes constant attention, looking for new stuff to do, doing a monthly state-of-the-marriage meeting to see if something has gone off the rails, setting aside dedicated time for dating your wife, and so on. We can help with that.

Fourth, I work at a medical college/hospital. I get it. But unless you're changing careers, you'd better get your butt in gear and figure out what real integrity looks like. It's not just saying the right thing or even not doing something bad. It's knowing you CAN do something bad but having that look abhorrent to you. You aren't there yet. In this industry you'll have constant adoring fans; you have to decide what your one life is worth to you (maybe picture yourself 80 on your deathbed: what will you want those gathered around you - if they even come - to say and feel about you?).


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## Ozymandius

I know that this process of earning her trust back will take the rest of my life...

I am not sure if it will work... But I am willing to try my best...

I really didn't appreciate T until now... She will get my best from here on out... (as long she wants me around)

She knows of the plans we had... She was furious... She gave me an ultimatum along with a last chance...

She is stronger and braver and more determined than any other person I have ever known.

I feel guilt and shame every time she is kind to me... She lets me know she forgets nothing... and yet she still wants me around...

I am seriously blessed and fortunate... I married a great woman... I see that now...

I appreciate the feedback... The reality checks... Even the harsh ones...

I believe I have learned (and will continue to learn) my lesson on faithfulness...

I will let you know if something changes... But for now I have more hope for my marriage than before I came to this group.

I chose the name 'Ozymandius' because my kingdom too was destroyed (not by time but by my own actions) but where there is love there is hope...


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## skerzoid

Sometimes advanced degrees indicate........what?

Library time?

They mean nothing when it comes to human relationships. Some of the smartest people in the world were also some of the worst people in history, especially to those around them. I have advanced degrees in history myself.

You are on the verge of your third divorce and for what? Someone stroked your ego.

If you come out of this one with your balls intact, thank your lucky stars.


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## Adelais

Ozymandius said:


> I know that this process of earning her trust back will take the rest of my life...
> 
> You will not get her trust back until she knows everything. Without all the truth, her trust will be based on a lie.
> 
> I am not sure if it will work... But I am willing to try my best... It isn't your best if you aren't willing to tell her everything. Why are you ignoring this fact?
> 
> I really didn't appreciate T until now... She will get my best from here on out... Your best is not very good if you aren't telling her the whole truth.
> 
> (as long she wants me around) You aren't giving her a chance to really know if she wants you around as long as she is lacking information.
> 
> She knows of the plans we had... She was furious... She gave me an ultimatum along with a last chance...
> 
> She is stronger and braver and more determined than any other person I have ever known. You are taking a huge chance by not telling her everything now. If she finds out later, she will be more angry than she would be if she found out right now.
> 
> I feel guilt and shame every time she is kind to me... Your guilt will not diminish as long as you know you are still keeping secrets from her. In order to have a clear conscience you must tell her that you had planned to divorce her and marry each other until the OW decided to go back to her husband instead.
> 
> She lets me know she forgets nothing... and yet she still wants me around...Oh she won't forget when she finds out that you hid the true extent of the affair and the fact that you were planning to throw her in the ditch.
> 
> I am seriously blessed and fortunate... I married a great woman... I see that now...She does not deserve to continue to be lied to. You are taking advantage of her still by keeping your secret about planning to divorce her to marry OW.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback... The reality checks... Even the harsh ones...
> 
> I believe I have learned (and will continue to learn) my lesson on faithfulness...No you have not. You're still keeping secrets from her that she deserves to know to make an informed decision. You're covering your own ass at her expense.
> 
> I will let you know if something changes... But for now I have more hope for my marriage than before I came to this group.
> 
> I chose the name 'Ozymandius' because my kingdom too was destroyed (not by time but by my own actions) but where there is love there is hope...


 Your kingdom is not as destroyed as you pretend it is, because you fear it being further destroyed if you tell her the truth, otherwise you would tell her.

You're lying to yourself, or to us, or maybe both.


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## BluesPower

Ozymandius said:


> I know that this process of earning her trust back will take the rest of my life...
> 
> I am not sure if it will work... But I am willing to try my best...
> 
> I really didn't appreciate T until now... She will get my best from here on out... (as long she wants me around)
> 
> She knows of the plans we had... She was furious... She gave me an ultimatum along with a last chance...
> 
> She is stronger and braver and more determined than any other person I have ever known.
> 
> I feel guilt and shame every time she is kind to me... She lets me know she forgets nothing... and yet she still wants me around...
> 
> I am seriously blessed and fortunate... I married a great woman... I see that now...
> 
> I appreciate the feedback... The reality checks... Even the harsh ones...
> 
> I believe I have learned (and will continue to learn) my lesson on faithfulness...
> 
> I will let you know if something changes... But for now I have more hope for my marriage than before I came to this group.
> 
> I chose the name 'Ozymandius' because my kingdom too was destroyed (not by time but by my own actions) but where there is love there is hope...


Yeah, those of us that went to collage got the literary reference in your user name. 

So along with your PHD arrogance, there are several things that you need to understand and drop... 

You need to let her love you, and accept that love. It is a big deal to woman. 

Next, you need to understand how to devote yourself, your time, and you heart to a woman that is willing to take you back after your stupidity. 

I mean, frankly guys like you usually don't get that stuff. Do you think you do? 

For example, if she asks you, "Do you want to go shopping with me and help me pick out a new dress?" 

What do you say?????


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## personofinterest

> T was angry and disappointed... i told her the basics - about the feelings and the talks (I left out the kisses and the emojies).


The very first thing a truly remorseful spouse will do is tell her the entire truth. Every bit of it.

Nothing matters until that is done. No feelings or words or eloquence or academia.

AFTER she knows all of the truth you know, THEN you begin your self work WHILE being completely transparent and humble with her.

Eloquent self-effacement means nothing. This is not a British Poetry course. This is life.

Here is the STARTING point:

The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover again.

The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse. (I would skip this as it will tempt you to wax eloquent)

The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover:

Block potential communication with the lover (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

Spend leisure time together.

Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

Avoid overnight separation.

Allow technical accountability.

Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


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## Ozymandius

I didn't go into great detail with my wife about the kisses and emojis because she let me know that she had already been told by the AP's husband - and that he sent her a print out of all our emails... She knows that divorce plans were discussed... She knows the OW passed a polygraph concerning intercourse... She and I have changed all emails and phone numbers and we closed all social media accounts... T had and has full control of our finances... The no-contact letters were sent by both parties ... T wrote mine and by the tone I'd say she wrote her own... Ministers and family members know and everyone agrees that I am an ass... 

I guess I am done.

btw, per our agreement she reads what I write here...


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## sokillme

Ozymandius said:


> I know that this process of earning her trust back will take the rest of my life...
> 
> I am not sure if it will work... But I am willing to try my best...
> 
> I really didn't appreciate T until now... She will get my best from here on out... (as long she wants me around)
> 
> She knows of the plans we had... She was furious... She gave me an ultimatum along with a last chance...
> 
> She is stronger and braver and more determined than any other person I have ever known.
> 
> I feel guilt and shame every time she is kind to me... She lets me know she forgets nothing... and yet she still wants me around...
> 
> I am seriously blessed and fortunate... I married a great woman... I see that now...
> 
> I appreciate the feedback... The reality checks... Even the harsh ones...
> 
> I believe I have learned (and will continue to learn) my lesson on faithfulness...
> 
> I will let you know if something changes... But for now I have more hope for my marriage than before I came to this group.
> 
> I chose the name 'Ozymandius' because my kingdom too was destroyed (not by time but by my own actions) but where there is love there is hope...


Do you love your wife? From your description it makes is seem like you love her as a friend? Does SHE know this? Is she willing to settle for this? If she doesn't you should tell her, she deserves to know. It's hard for me to think someone would really be willing to settle to a life without any romantic love.

Also if you read here and other places then you know that WS almost always lie, it's their MO and they are good at it. Even if they don't think they are lying their perspective is usually ****ed up when they cheat on their spouse. It's helps them cheat. 

Saying their husband is abusive is the number one go to of women who cheat. Often times the truth is these women are crappy spouses with poor boundaries and the spouse is desperately trying to keep them from ****ing other men. Granting the spouse may be misguided but it doesn't mean they are abusive. Most of the time it's the ******* cheater that is abusive. 

If your wife reads on here, Mrs. O maybe you should post. We should talk. Are you sure you want to quickly jump back with a man who describes you as only his best friend?


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## Adelais

Ozymandius said:


> I didn't go into great detail with my wife about the kisses and emojis because she let me know that she had already been told by the AP's husband - and that he sent her a print out of all our emails... She knows that divorce plans were discussed... She knows the OW passed a polygraph concerning intercourse... She and I have changed all emails and phone numbers and we closed all social media accounts... T had and has full control of our finances... The no-contact letters were sent by both parties ... T wrote mine and by the tone I'd say she wrote her own... Ministers and family members know and everyone agrees that I am an ass...
> 
> I guess I am done.
> 
> btw, per our agreement she reads what I write here...


OK, with all this new information, I have no beef with you.

You sound remorseful, and you have done everything in your power to clear the air with your wife.

I hope you will be able to fully reconcile, and that in spite of your bad decision your marriage will be even stronger than it was before. If you continue to face your own weaknesses and fix them, and since your wife has a huge heart, your marriage can thrive.


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## EleGirl

@Ozymandius

As dire as things seem right now, there is actually a lot that you both can do to turn your marriage into a much better relationship than it ever has been. You, like a lot of people have let your relationship get stale by not doing the things all along that are needed to keep nurture a good relationship.

Stop beating yourself up for your affair. Yea, it was wrong. But really what purpose does self flagellation serve except to make you and everyone else around you miserable. Instead put your energy into rebuilding your relationship.. maybe even into building it into something better than you every had before.

There are two books that I think will help you and your wife move beyond the sad place you are at right now: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" . Read them in that order. It's best if the two of you read them at the same time so you can discuss them and do the work that they say to do.

You two have 100% over fixing your relationship and getting beyond the affair.


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## turnera

I agree. Those two books will change your life.


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## Ozymandius

I appreciate all the comments... 

T knew we married as best friends... Our love (my love) has grown over the last fifteen years... 

When I first 'came clean' I did hold some things back... She was angry and disgusted with me... She was also angry with the OW for 'stalking' me... I asked if I should sleep in one of the guest rooms ... She said no... I slept with one eye open that night... Next morning she made me breakfast and we went and got me a new phone and she spent some time cleaning up and linking our computers.

after she read my intro she sat me down and explained how much she knew... She still loves me anyway...

She has helped me through two bouts of severe depression... As a friend shortly after my daughter died... And again last year with being pushed out at work and my best buddy 'Shep' died from bone cancer...

I have found new love and respect for this woman and more every day...

She said she is glad I am no longer 'stressed out and checked out' at home... She likes the attention I am ravishing on her...

I think we just might make it ... And better than before...


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## Ozymandius

Also, now that I am semi-retired... She says she likes having me around (and she knows where I am at all times)

We are having fun together again... Lovers again... Not just friends anymore...

I see new reasons to be excited for our marriage every single day...


My VA support group and i are planning vengeance on the OW's husband...

I am kidding...��

I have more love and appreciation for my wife than I have had in years...

I will get and read those two books... and continue to work in my counselling group


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## brettyboo

Ozymandius said:


> btw, per our agreement she reads what I write here...


At first glance that sounds quite noble of you. However, on reflection, are you using this thread as a way to manipulate or sway her? Be careful with that ... writing with her as the audience it might be tainting your authenticity. You really should be here so you can talk freely and genuinely about your own thoughts and feelings. 

Nonetheless, I do wish you well in you attempts to reconcile - truly if she is as you say she is, she is a woman of great value and stature. She deserves better than the **** you have dished out.


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## sokillme

Ozymandius said:


> My VA support group and i are planning vengeance on the OW's husband...


You cheat with his wife and you want vengeance?

Even in joking you show you don't get it.


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## Adelais

Ozymandius said:


> Also, now that I am semi-retired... She says she likes having me around (and she knows where I am at all times)
> 
> We are having fun together again... Lovers again... Not just friends anymore...
> 
> I see new reasons to be excited for our marriage every single day...
> 
> 
> *My VA support group and i are planning vengeance on the OW's husband...
> 
> I am kidding.*..��
> 
> I have more love and appreciation for my wife than I have had in years...
> 
> I will get and read those two books... and continue to work in my counselling group


I missed the bolded part.

Why would you, the AP have any legitimate reason or right to get even with your AP's husband? He should have beaten the crap out of you, and you would have deserved it. Yes, she stalked and persistently pursued you, but it was not his fault, it was hers...and yours.


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## Violet28

Ozymandius said:


> My reply...
> 
> 1) I know I was unfaithful to my wife... and I am the only one to blame
> 2) T has been contacted by the angry spouse and told everything...
> 3) we have been on the brink of divorce twice before due to my psychological issues (which now includes infidelity and deceit)
> 4) my PTSD and my affair and other issues are being addressed in psychological counselling...
> 5) the EA never went past hugs and a couple of kisses... Guilt and shame kept it from proceeding further...
> 6) the OW claimed to be in an abusive relationship... then when confronted with our communication decided to remain with her husband... my marriage was distant... but not terrible (until I wandered)
> 7) I told the OW that she had to get away from her abuser... She was angry when I said I was going to try to work it out with my wife...
> 8) every day that passes I feel more ridiculous and ashamed about the emotional affair...
> 9) I came here for a reality-check on my behavior... So, thanks for the truth.
> 10) it is obvious to me that I didn't appreciate/deserve my wife... I had caused the distance between us...
> 11) I don't know why she wants to work this out with me... every passing day I am more amazed by her grace and forgiveness...
> 12) I offered to move out and give her everything... She told me she wanted me to stay and work it out...
> 13) I removed all passwords in my phone and computer... No contact apps either
> 12) we both closed all social media accounts...
> 13) after lurking here for a couple of weeks and then this introduction... I have noticed a significant reduction in my desire to contact the OW. I am grateful.
> 14) there has been no contact of any kind by either side... I see my wife with new eyes... and I obviously was not the man the OW thought I was...
> 15) my wife is plan A from now on... She chooses to believe me... and I choose to accept her forgiveness on her terms...
> 16) this still could blow up in my face... not because of new information... But because T decides I am not worth the trouble anymore ...
> 17) I am forever changed by this failure on my part to keep the commitments I made 16 years ago... and if I lose my wife... the loss will be greater since I now see her worth... but I will know that I chose to throw it all away...
> 
> Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone (or almost gone)


It is all well and good to hand over your passwords and say 'I take full responsibility' but what are you doing to address the core issues that led you to this behavior? You 'are forever changed'? How so? And viewing your wife differently does not mean you are forever changed, it just means you appreciate her more. Has this touched your soul? Has it changed your character? Are you willing to look inward at your past not only understand this but also work to change it?


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## Ozymandius

I am in counselling over this situation and my psychologist is just as hard-assed as most of you here... I am doing my reading and other homework... I am on this and another board as part of my process to grow past this failure of my basic character....

I don't know how it will end... I hope for continued support from my wife and friends... Some have written me off... T hasn't yet... Time will tell...


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## BluesPower

Ozymandius said:


> I am in counselling over this situation and my psychologist is just as hard-assed as most of you here... I am doing my reading and other homework... I am on this and another board as part of my process to grow past this failure of my basic character....
> 
> I don't know how it will end... I hope for continued support from my wife and friends... Some have written me off... T hasn't yet... Time will tell...


The fact that she is there still, is a super good sign. She is a good women I think. 

Please don't be stupid about anything. It is actually quite freeing to say to the world, I am a moron, my wife still loves me, I am a lucky man.

Keep up the work...


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## Ozymandius

And... I apologize for my smart-ass joke about the OM... 

I do not blame him at all (I did a little when I was convinced by his wife that he abused her...) 

Now I doubt that part of her story (I am coming to doubt most of what she told me)

I think he handled the mess I made better than I would have... 

Stupid comments are a fall-back weakness I go to when I feel overwhelmed... 

I am now 2 weeks with zero contact (from either side) and I think I have survived the worst of the withdrawal... Focusing on loving T has helped tremendously... And I have a tool from my therapist... When my thoughts wander back to the addiction ... I pretend I am holding a remote and I tell myself to "Change the channel" and I get hold of my thoughts before they get hold of me...


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## Diana7

Well hopefully you will finally grow up and will keep your vows and promises and behave responsibility and with integrity. You seem to have no boundaries at all with the opposite sex, so how about you make some? Otherwise you will end up as one of those serial divorcees. I suspect that if this hadn't been discovered it would still be going on, and of course its easy to be sorry when you have been caught.

Oh, and surely you know that everyone who cheats will complain and lie about their spouse? Its what they do.


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## Ozymandius

I was the BS in my first marriage... I did everything wrong to try to save that marriage... But it was 1996 and the internet was slow and useless... Also, I failed to follow any good advice I was given...

But I do agree with setting strong boundaries in my marriage... This EA started with too much communication and then concern for another man's wife's health...then marriage... then infatuation... onto betrayal of my wife's trust... 

So, I have and will have no female friends. And no contact with other women except when my wife is present. No more flirting except with my wife... 

If the EA hadn't been discovered when it was it would have fallen apart sooner than later because of the difference in the way we saw her situation... I wanted her out of her 'abusive' marriage... She wanted excitement and adoration to continue no matter what... she saw her situation far less dangerous than I did. Confused the hell out of me... Cracks were developing... I couldn't believe some of her answers to my concerns...


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## Violet28

Ozymandius said:


> Stupid comments are a fall-back weakness I go to when I feel overwhelmed...


That is good insight. Self-awareness is always positive.



Ozymandius said:


> And I have a tool from my therapist... When my thoughts wander back to the addiction ... I pretend I am holding a remote and I tell myself to "Change the channel" and I get hold of my thoughts before they get hold of me...


It starts with learning to control your thoughts, when you change them you could try and think of a good memory with T or your daughter. Something that makes you feel happy.


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## PigglyWiggly

Ozymandius said:


> And... I apologize for my smart-ass joke about the OM...
> 
> I do not blame him at all (I did a little when I was convinced by his wife that he abused her...)
> 
> Now I doubt that part of her story (I am coming to doubt most of what she told me)
> 
> I think he handled the mess I made better than I would have...
> 
> Stupid comments are a fall-back weakness I go to when I feel overwhelmed...
> 
> I am now 2 weeks with zero contact (from either side) and I think I have survived the worst of the withdrawal... Focusing on loving T has helped tremendously... And I have a tool from my therapist... *When my thoughts wander back to the addiction* ... I pretend I am holding a remote and I tell myself to "Change the channel" and I get hold of my thoughts before they get hold of me...


The taboo of it, the feeling desired, the imagined sexual novelty.....an affair....man it gives you a jacked UP feeling that only illegal drugs can top. You will need to learn/communicate what you need to experience some of that in your marriage. It's work but you won't be tsunami'd by endorphins next time if you are already experiencing them at home on some level.


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