# Am i victim blaming?



## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

My wife and I have been married for 7 years. We have two daughters together. I feel that I am a great dad and a mostly good husband. We got into a phase where our intimacy was lacking and our relationship became more like roommates than partners.

My wife and her girl friends decided to take a girls trip which I was fine with. At this time she was pregnant but about a week or so before the trip she started to miscarry. This was devastating to us but she still wanted to go on the planned trip.

On this girls trip, they were at their hotels pool party one day, drinking and hanging out. She called me and left me a video message and I could tell she was intoxicated in the video. After that video message, I saw her friend post photos of them at the pool and in a couple photos I could see a stranger standing behind my wife with his arms/hands around her waist. I talked to her that night, upset about the photos and she apologized. She said she was drunk and doesn't remember anything other than him trying to kiss her/groping her and faint memories of her pushing away. Her friends said this guy and his friend (who also did this to one of my wife's friends) were thrown out by security. My wife's friend (who's also married) said the guy that was around her tried to kiss her and she went to walk away and he grabbed her by the arm and pulled her in trying to kiss and grab her crotch.

After talking with my wife and her friends, their stories lined up. Per her friends, after security grabbed the guy, they talked with my wife (she was not thrown out) and then she passed out on the daybed by the pool.

She has been remorseful for getting that intoxicated and not getting out of a bad situation (she's also on wellbutrin which I've heard doesn't mix with alcohol well).

We've been doing marriage counseling and she has agreed that she won't drink unless we're together and that any future trips with friends will be a couples trip.

I feel like our communication and intimacy has improved a lot since this but I'm hurt and angry about the situation. I feel like she cheated on me and she feels like she was assaulted. After getting home and talking about it, she did report it to the police but they required her to come into the station to give a report (she was already home and couldn't go into the station). I've gone through her social media, phone, pictures and there is nothing I can find to cause me any concern.

I can't get this out of my head. I feel betrayed/cheated on but I also feel like I need to support her if what happened is true. Any advice?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Jmcr2015 said:


> After talking with my wife and her friends, *their stories lined up*


They always do... don't believe any of that.

I would go with the assumption that they followed these guys out of the pool and likely up to their room unless its proven otherwise.

With photos, I assume the police could identify these guys, if your wife is saying that she was assaulted and willing to file a report... see exactly how far she will take it:

Tell her you've arranged for flights back to the city this occured and you have an appointment with an officer for her to file the report, say you've sent the photos and they already have the man ID'd. Do this just to gauge her reaction. This would not be victim blaming at all, it would be supporting her if it is true she was assaulted. If she balks, you have your answer....

I can guarantee she will say she doesn't want to file charges...

If that pans out to be the case, setup a polygraph appointment (also can be a bluff), drive to it and arrive in the parking lot 30 minutes early, see what she says at that time....


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

My wife broke off the friendship with the person who was taking the photos because she didn't help her. This was a pretty big fight between them and I heard the whole conversation. I would expect that if there was more to this, the friend would have revealed it then.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You’re never going to know if there’s more to it. The world is full of men who will happily take advantage of drunk women and it could have easily happened the way she said it did. Right now it’s all new and confusing and it will take time to move on. Hopefully, your wife learned a really valuable lesson and nothing like this — or worse — happens again.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Deleted in favor of Cynthia's post/advice -


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Stuff like this happens, it’s why when we were younger my friends and I always made sure we were back in the room before it got too late (the drinking and playing continued, just in private). We don’t have to any more because we’re too told for this to happen, but there are men who troll groups of young women on girls’ trips. We have in the past few years run off guys we saw trolling around younger women, it really freaks those guys out when I go from giggly fun to mom voice😉. This could very well have happened the way your wife says it did. If you really don’t believe her, you could always call hotel security and find out what they saw. If you still don’t believe her, leave. She was assaulted, yes, but it was her own poor judgement that got her there. It’s victim blaming, but that’s not a new or unusual thing. If she loses her marriage over it, she definitely will never let it happen again.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Believe your wife. If she tells you that she was asaulted and you don't support her, that in and of itself could destroy your marriage and have a profoundly negative impact on your wife. Add to that your wife's miscarriage and you could add to her trauma, rather than being a team in dealing with all of this.

These kinds of things do happen, especially when drinking is involved. Hopefully she's learned her lesson to take better care of herself, so someone can't take advantage of her when she can't properly defend herself. The vulnerable position she was in as a drunk woman is what some people look for as an easy mark. It's a good thing her friends were near or she could easily have been raped.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Cynthia said:


> Believe your wife. If she tells you that she was asaulted and you don't support her, that in and of itself could destroy your marriage and have a profoundly negative impact on your wife. Add to that your wife's miscarriage and you could add to her trauma, rather than being a team in dealing with all of this.
> 
> These kinds of things do happen, especially when drinking is involved. Hopefully she's learned her lesson to take better care of herself, so someone can't take advantage of her when she can't properly defend herself. The vulnerable position she was in as a drunk woman is what some people look for as an easy mark. It's a good thing her friends were near or she could easily have been raped.


I agree with this, and while your wife may need advice on drinking boundaries etc, that doesn’t give anyone the right to touch her or assault her.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Jmcr2015 said:


> My wife broke off the friendship with the person who was taking the photos because she didn't help her.


 or because she leaked to story and got her and the other wife into big crap , and broke the what happens in x stays in x


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Jmcr2015 said:


> I can't get this out of my head. I feel betrayed/cheated on but I also feel like I need to support her if what happened is true. Any advice?



Yes, why haven't you called the hotel security to corroborate the story?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

1. You don’t have the full story. There are most certainly details that were not shared with you.
2. She chose to put herself in an inappropriate situation that is conducive to bad behavior and boundaries being crossed.
3. you allowed her to put herself in that situation because you didn’t have effective expectations and boundaries in your marriage. Drunken girls trips are unacceptable for married women. Obviously you figured that out now, so at least there’s that.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I can not say if what she said was true or not , what I would do is judge this on the rest of what is going on in your relationship , 
YOU SAID "We got into a phase where our intimacy was lacking and our relationship became more like roommates than partners. " with out the trip things are not going well , 
time to think about MC


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The betrayal is your wife getting **** face drunk like she did putting herself is a bad position.

The guy no the other hand assaulted your wife. You need to support her 100% on this.


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Yes, why haven't you called the hotel security to corroborate the story?


I have and haven't been able to get ahold of security. Sent an email, hoping to get a response


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Jmcr2015 said:


> My wife and her girl friends decided to take a girls trip which I was fine with. At this time she was pregnant but about a week or so before the trip she started to miscarry. This was devastating to us but she still wanted to go on the planned trip.


 you say she started to miscarry , I take it she miscarried we all so lived through the same , I can't see how your wife was even able go on the trip at this time , 

for us the worst part of the miscarriage was not having a grave and the people saying you can try again , last thing we wanted to be told ,


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> I can not say if what she said was true or not , what I would do is judge this on the rest of what is going on in your relationship ,
> YOU SAID "We got into a phase where our intimacy was lacking and our relationship became more like roommates than partners. " with out the trip things are not going well ,
> time to think about MC


We are doing counseling and things have been much better.


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> you say she started to miscarry , I take it she miscarried we all so lived through the same , I can't see how your wife was even able go on the trip at this time ,
> 
> for us the worst part of the miscarriage was not having a grave and the people saying you can try again , last thing we wanted to be told ,


Yes, she miscarried. She also said she shouldn't have gone on the trip as she was emotionally not well from the miscarriage


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Jmcr2015 said:


> We are doing counseling and things have been much better.


then you have to let the counseling do it job and not be hurting yourself outside , will you tell her and the MC ABOUT THIS TOPIC AND HOW YOU FEEL AND GET ALL OUT ? NOT JUST going and saying nothing then saying we tried it and it did not work ,


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Jmcr2015 said:


> Yes, she miscarried. She also said she shouldn't have gone on the trip as she was emotionally not well from the miscarriage


yes it was the hardest thing in our life and we went through a huge amount of crap


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> then you have to let the counseling do it job and not be hurting yourself outside , will you tell her and the MC ABOUT THIS TOPIC AND HOW YOU FEEL AND GET ALL OUT ? NOT JUST going and saying nothing then saying we tried it and it did not work ,


I will. I'm not withholding my feelings at all and I'm giving it my all in counseling. Guess I was just looking for some different perspectives by posting here.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

So she was emotionally not well from the miscarriage, add in the alcohol, friends to corroborate her story, I’d say keep searching for the truth.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Jmcr2015 ,

Here's the way I see it. We can't tell what did or did not happen on this girl trip. You know your wife and the friend, and you've seen the social media posts and even reached out to the security to confirm facts. So I'll trust you to remain neutral as you gather facts, and then make a decision based on the facts...not on "feelings."

In real life, after a miscarriage, I could see why a woman would drown her sorrows. Is that a wise choice? No. But I could see that as realistic. Any person has the right to drown their sorrows and be drunk without being physically assaulted by another person. It's reasonable for your wife to expect to be able to drown her sorrows and be safe, but in real life, there are people who see a semi-drunk woman on her own or with one friend, and they go after the vulnerable.

To me, her story has the ring of potential reality to it. I think she wanted to "get away" after the miscarriage. I think she was drowning her sorrows by the pool with her friend. Those are reasonable actions. Wise? Probably not. But I think she had a reasonable expectation of safety. And the guy was pushy, kept grabbing after she told him to go, and security saw and kicked him out and let her alone. That says something to me. That points to the likelihood that she wasn't messing with him, but he was DEFINITELY messing with her enough that security saw it as unsafe. 

I'd say 1) confirm with security, 2) lean toward believing your wife was assaulted after just miscarrying a child, and 3) process your feelings in the setting of counseling--maybe a session just for you to focus on these feelings. I think your feelings are a natural reaction, but I don't know think it will build the marriage to have your wife deal with them, and I do think it will harm the marriage. So work on then with a counselor and/or a trusted buddy.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Going forward, trust but verify.

As far as the drinking goes? She's on Wellbutrin, she gets really drunk, she does irresponsible things.

How about she quits drinking altogether and you support her by doing the same?

It's not like we need to drink alcohol to survive.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Jmcr2015 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 7 years. We have two daughters together. I feel that I am a great dad and a mostly good husband. We got into a phase where our intimacy was lacking and our relationship became more like roommates than partners.
> 
> My wife and her girl friends decided to take a girls trip which I was fine with. At this time she was pregnant but about a week or so before the trip she started to miscarry. This was devastating to us but she still wanted to go on the planned trip.
> 
> ...


It's a little of both, isn't it? He got thrown out for security because he is the predator here, going around groping women, and not just one woman, but whoever he can put his hands on. So yes, your wife and friends were victims of him. He sounds worse than most, but nearly every woman will experience unwanted stranger groping some point in her life. I have. Some guy in a bar grabbed my crotch. It is a bad feeling. My impulse was to kick him but I missed. I wish I hadn't. 

So yeah, she was victimized, but the main thing traumatic to her since she barely remembers it is how you are reacting now, so stop blaming her for having drinks with friends. They were in what SHOULD have been a safe environment, not driving doesn't sound like, not hurting anyone, and the fact they had security who kicked the guy out underlines that. That's where it should be safe to party. 

Where the "if" comes in is if when she's drunk she's more tolerant of that type of behavior or even encourages it. That photo -- well, doesn't look like she tried to get her friends not to send it to you. Probably really is hazy about the whole thing. Probably did try to get away from him more than once. He was a real pest or security wouldn't have kicked him out. She may have been too trashed to even think straight. Better she doesn't drink enough to get that trashed, but unless you have reason to think she is a true alcoholic like a blackout drunk who usually won't remember anything she does drunk, then it was just an incident. If there have been other occasions where she can't remember after drinking, that is a solid sign of alcoholism.

Do I think she was out to cheat? NO. I think she got assaulted by an unwanted groper when she was too drunk. But at least she was drunk somewhere it was reasonably safe. However many drinks she thinks she had that night, I'd say she cut that back by three in the future unless she has a drinking addiction.

Dude, no woman wants some skeevy groper guy on them. They don't.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Dude, no woman wants some skeevy groper guy on them. They don't.


It’s weird to me that this needed to be said. But it did.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Jmcr2015 said:


> I will. I'm not withholding my feelings at all and I'm giving it my all in counseling. Guess I was just looking for some different perspectives by posting here.


for me as the husband and father in the miscarriage , men often get looked over and how we feel because we are there for our wife but it is a loss for both us , I have never said to my wife at the time and the years after how It felt for me too, 

it is hard to see what is the problem in a relationship , often the people in it look or talk about the things like the trip and what happened or did not happen there , but if you can look past that and try and dig deep into your relationship to the things that are lots of small things that can easy be fixed that could be driving the other person away , there is never just one person wrong , we get people here that say my husband does x when I tell him to do y BUT WITH OUT us knowing and my Cystral ball is not working this week I can't say if she is expecting too much from the husband and maybe the husband is a saint


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

I highly doubt that your wife would have ended her friendship with the other woman if what really happened was she enjoyed the attention and then slept with the guy. It sounds like you may well have the full truth and that you are taking the right steps to improve her boundaries. Confirm with security as planned and send the photo to them if needed to jog their memory. Ask them what happened that night, dont lead them with specific questions unless necessary.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It probably started out as drunk flirting and he ended up being a real creep.

Though her behavior was far from appropriate for a married person, she in no way asked to be assaulted. She should be held accountable for her wrongdoing, but offered support for what happened to her.


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

I appreciate all of the insight and opinions. 

Ultimately, since this has happened, it has sprung us into action to really focus on our marriage even more with mc and help us get out of the complacency that we were slipping in to. Which is the most important thing, in my opinion. 

I don't believe there's an option to close a thread but I won't be contributing to this thread any further. I am going to focus on our mc and marriage. Thank you all for your input


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

If you are obsessed as to whether she is lying to you, make her sit for a polygraph. You could get a parking lot confession or more information. Polygraphs aren't perfect but the specter of having to take one loosens the tongue of so many WSs. Her attitude concerning the demand could tell you a lot. A truthful, remorseful WS should jump at the opportunity to take one. If she agrees, follow through with it. Set up the exam and give her only a couple hours notice as to when it will take place.

Like everything, the devil is in the details. How did the two guys come upon your wife and friends? Did they give signals to the men that they were open to talking. Was there any flirting? It's unlikely that your wife was just laying there on lounge chair and the guy decided to assault her in plain view of everyone. I suspect you do have way more of the story and if you are satisfied that your wife is sufficiently truthful in your mind, then move on and work on your marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> or because she leaked to story and got her and the other wife into big crap , and broke the what happens in x stays in x


My thoughts also!

in a couple photos I could see a stranger standing behind my wife with his arms/hands around her waist. I talked to her that night, upset about the photos and she apologized.


If it were not something she inappropriately participated in why would she feel a need to apologize!?

Y'all were not in a real good place and she wanted to get cozy with another dusy, was feeling down about her body, etc. But may not have wanted to take it all the way. That case she could be the victim, as well as being guilty of cheating for entertaining guy in 1st place. I would make her go back and file a report. She may not want the whole story coming to light.

Because she was caught and knew she was in the wrong for entertaining the man in the 1st place. Maybe she wanted a bit of making out and he wanted to take it to next step then she thought Oh crap! Photos were already posted.


Why would she have even have been able to have a photo taken of her with this guys arms around her. If someone walked up behind my wife and did this, she would have decked him. She did not seem to mind then. Something stinks. I would most definitely book a flight back to file a report. Be interesting to hear this guys side of the story of what had occurred that night.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Jmcr2015 said:


> I appreciate all of the insight and opinions.
> 
> Ultimately, since this has happened, it has sprung us into action to really focus on our marriage even more with mc and help us get out of the complacency that we were slipping in to. Which is the most important thing, in my opinion.
> 
> I don't believe there's an option to close a thread but I won't be contributing to this thread any further. I am going to focus on our mc and marriage. Thank you all for your input


Good luck, it this incident spurred you out of complacency perhaps it will be for the best.
That said, I think you need enhanced marital boundaries more than MC.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> yes it was the hardest thing in our life and we went through a huge amount of crap


Really, wife had 6, on at 28 weeks, and a tubal before our 2 boys.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Not sure if he'll read this but it sounds like a little lowered inhibitions gone bad. And the picture was taken before it got bad. Probably some drunken flirting but nothing more.

I will say that forbidding your spouse from drinking unless you are present is very extreme and controlling.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

I am no expert but I watch Law and Order, these days it seems weird that a PD would not take a report from an out of towner over the phone about a possible assault...did you talk to the police or did she?

I bet the hotel security will not just give up anything about your situation and tossing the guy out to anybody without a fight, they don't want bad press.

Was it a big name brand resort?


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## Jmcr2015 (5 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> Not sure if he'll read this but it sounds like a little lowered inhibitions gone bad. And the picture was taken before it got bad. Probably some drunken flirting but nothing more.
> 
> I will say that forbidding your spouse from drinking unless you are present is very extreme and controlling.


I'm not forbidding it. We talked about it and she wants to do it. She said she's scared to be in that type of a situation again and would prefer to only drink when we're together. I found it to be a very mature and responsible plan.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Thread closed at request of OP.*


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