# Worse than a roommate...



## escravo215 (Dec 8, 2010)

A little background on the matter...

Been together with my wife for about 8 years, and lived together for 2 years before. When we were dating (this will be important later on) we talked A LOT. Went out A LOT. Spent a lot of time together. She is I guess and A-type personality but kinda awkward and clunky with it. Just really pushy when she kinda doesn't need to be if that makes any sense. She works as an IT manager for a University so her personality fits in there. A little over 6 years ago, we had our first child and things began to change between me and her. She constantly nagged me about changing myself (I work in the fitness industry) and I've always wanted to work in the industry I'm in. After constant complaining, I decided to call in some favors and got an administrative job with a University and ABSOLUTELY HATED IT! I left the University after a year and worked in concierge (complete and total respect for people who do that-the crap that you have to deal with on a day-today basis...wow) but it wasn't enough for her. She wanted me to work in her mairoom (Wouldn't that be great? We'll be together all the time) or be an exotic dancer (I dunno, don't ask). It basically came down to the paygrade-she makes probably double what I make a year and she wanted me to be a stay at home dad. I wanted to work and I was really good at my job. I paid all the utilities, bought the food for the house and gassed the car with my money. Physically, it became just excuse after excuse why she didn't want to have sex. We didn't do anything together anymore. It was like I was a role player and not a co-star anymore. So I kinda started to distance myself from her. It was like she kept trying to change everything that made her fall in love with me, yet she remained the same and I just had to deal with it and was beginning to hate her for it. We had our first marriage counseling session last week and I didn't even look at her the entire time. So now everything's a note (set alarm before leaving, find kiki's shoes, etc) and I haven't talked to her in a long long time. THIS SUCKS!! Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

How are you two handling your finances? Are they still kept separate? It can be very difficult for some women to make more than their husbands, and that can lead to a lot of resentment on the woman's part. 

I think that it is immoral and cold for her to refuse sex like that; maybe you could talk to her and explain how it makes you feel. Sometimes women don't understand the toll it can take on their husbands, so it's important to make her realize that sex makes you feel loved and close to her. Also, make it clear that sex should _not_ be used as a way to manipulate you or punish you! That's really unfair and a horrible way to treat the person you married.

About the money situation...This is what's most likely causing her to resent you and refuse sex. You said that you paid for utilities, food, and gasoline for yourself...No offense, but that's really nothing in the scheme of things. I'm only 21 and I pay for all those things for myself--my part-time waitressing job is enough to cover all of them while I'm still in school full time. So the fact that you're proud of those things is kind of like a red flag to me and it's probably really angering your wife. 

She asked you to be a stay-at-home-dad and you just said no because you like your job. Was there any compromise discussed? Is there any way you could cut back to part time hours and spend more time with your kid? Also, have you crunched the numbers here? Sometimes one spouse is essentially "paying to work" with daycare costs. If it's actually costing you money to continue your job, I would definitely suggest cutting back your hours--if it's fulfilling and important to you, you shouldn't have to give it up, but you shouldn't be penalizing your family either.

Do you help out with chores around the house? Chores are like the biggest _unnecessary_ problem in a lot of marriages...If you haven't already, divide them up clearly and make sure that you do everything on your list responsibly. I'd say since she works more and earns more, then you should be doing more of the chores, but again that's up to you and your wife. It can cause a lot more resentment if she feels you're not pulling your weight around the house.

Unfortunately, women change a lot when we get married and when we have kids. Your career and life choices might have been exciting 8 years ago, but now they're actually a negative when you've got a child to support and bills to pay. A lot of women expect their husbands to step up to the plate once marriage/kids happen, and that means she wants you to change. Whether or not it's "fair" for her to want this is irrelevant; it's there, it's what is causing the sex problem, and it's not going to be fixed if you don't do something to address it.

I'm sorry if this sounded harsh, but I think both of you are being stubborn. You need to sit down and talk and share all of your expectations (positive and negative) for each other--don't let her get away with that silent treatment bs! Just sit down and talk to each other so you can find out what she's thinking.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I don't know that it can be considered immoral to withhold sex.

I think you have to begin to let her know that you're going to pursue what you love and go after what it is that you love. She is walking all over you and you're giving up all of yourself to suit her desires.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

escravo215 said:


> A little background on the matter...
> 
> Been together with my wife for about 8 years, and lived together for 2 years before. When we were dating (this will be important later on) we talked A LOT. Went out A LOT. Spent a lot of time together. She is I guess and A-type personality but kinda awkward and clunky with it. Just really pushy when she kinda doesn't need to be if that makes any sense. She works as an IT manager for a University so her personality fits in there. A little over 6 years ago, we had our first child and things began to change between me and her. She constantly nagged me about changing myself (I work in the fitness industry) and I've always wanted to work in the industry I'm in. After constant complaining, I decided to call in some favors and got an administrative job with a University and ABSOLUTELY HATED IT! I left the University after a year and worked in concierge (complete and total respect for people who do that-the crap that you have to deal with on a day-today basis...wow) but it wasn't enough for her. She wanted me to work in her mairoom (Wouldn't that be great? We'll be together all the time) or be an exotic dancer (I dunno, don't ask). It basically came down to the paygrade-she makes probably double what I make a year and she wanted me to be a stay at home dad. I wanted to work and I was really good at my job. I paid all the utilities, bought the food for the house and gassed the car with my money. Physically, it became just excuse after excuse why she didn't want to have sex. We didn't do anything together anymore. It was like I was a role player and not a co-star anymore. So I kinda started to distance myself from her. It was like she kept trying to change everything that made her fall in love with me, yet she remained the same and I just had to deal with it and was beginning to hate her for it. We had our first marriage counseling session last week and I didn't even look at her the entire time. So now everything's a note (set alarm before leaving, find kiki's shoes, etc) and I haven't talked to her in a long long time. THIS SUCKS!! Any help would be greatly appreciated.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read it and ask any questions you like.

I wish you well.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

escravo215 said:


> she makes probably double what I make a year


That's a huge turn off to most women.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

if you talked alot in the beggining like you said... then i am sure as long as anyone of you were being honest, you both knew what to expect of the other person.... eachothers dreams, wishes, and wants but if you know you exclaimed what you wanted in all this... then unfortuanatly she wasnt being that truthful, and yes its very pettie holding out on you... and as far as the money, who cares how much who makes at the end of the day? it should be combined household money... and for anyone to call out any contribution you put in as not enough... look at it this way, me and my wife look to eachother things we cannot absoloutely do for ourselves... 

show her you are your own individual in this union, and you have your own hopes, dreams, and desires.... you just want her to be in your corner, as you would for her....

in the mean time do not let her get away with avoiding you or any conversation.... you will just grow distant and resentful of eachother.... catch her in passing and talk about something random... suprise her with a clean house and dinner so you could talk... dont yell or argue but let her know calmly and sure, you want to pursue some of your own ambitions...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Atholk said:


> That's a huge turn off to most women.


A hearty second.

In fact, most guys that make "much less" than her should never enter into a LTR with that gal.

Emotionally, women want their work/earnings to be optional.

Many will deny it.

It happens to be true.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Conrad said:


> A hearty second.
> 
> In fact, most guys that make "much less" than her should never enter into a LTR with that gal.
> 
> ...


I have read somewhere, it said in a marriage, if a man makes less than his wife, they tend to have more problems than a man who makes more than his wife. The man himself loses self-esteem, the woman has less respect for her man, and when a woman has less respect for her man, sexual desire disappears too.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

TALK with her,

I have had long term relationships with guys "all over the map" income wise and at the end of the day, it really is about the relationship, JMHO....and just me.

My husband makes megamillions and it did not stop problems....it created some and solved some but it's the relationship that counts.

I wish you all the best!!!


Yogachick


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> A hearty second.
> 
> In fact, most guys that make "much less" than her should never enter into a LTR with that gal.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

When I met my OH, we both worked, and earned around the same salary (I was in a job to pay my way through uni.)

I got made redundant and became a SAHM to my DDs from a previous relationship. I looked for work, but then fell pregnant with his baby. He moved in and we decided I would continue to stay at home with the children.

Prior to meeting him and my ex, I went to uni and have a Master's degree. My earning potential should I choose to return to work in a field related to my degrees, is double what he earns currently. He simultaneously loves this and dislikes it.

I have never seen the idea of me working within our relationship, as optional. I view being a stay at home mum as a stopgap, a worthwhile period of my life whilst the children are preschoolers; once the youngest is of nursery or school age, I will return to work and look forward to working again.

That part of me cannot look towards a LTR with me not working eventually or in a little part-time job, particularly since my older children are not his to have to support. He happily does so, but they are my responsibility at the end of the day.

Also, to see my work/earnings as optional would render my previous study and hard work pointless- and believe me, I worked HARD to get those qualifications. I do not want to be kept.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I earn more than my husband and have for most of our 25 year marriage - its never been an issue for me and if it is for him, he's never said or indicated so.

I personally believe that a spouse withholding sex is infantile and a form of passive-agressive behavior and that it has no place in a relationship between two people who profess to love each other. 

It's a huge pet-peeve of mine and one I find myself dealing with at this time in my own marriage (go figure).

The fact that you are communicating through notes is a big red flag for me. You both don't talk? Sounds like she is the type of person that believes people are what they do. That for you to be the type of husband she wants, you have to be a big wage earner, have a certain type of career, etc.

I agree with you - sounds like she is trying to change everything that made her fall in love with you in the first place. If finances are not an issue in your marriage (that you have enough money to live on, etc.), then why can't she just let you be you. I would think if she truly loved you she would want you to be happy, regardless of what you were doing.

I don't believe that when a man makes less than his woman, she loses respect and it causes additional problems in the relationship. I think this is based on the expectations, background and personalities of the people involved. I have no less respect for my husband because he makes less money than I do. I don't care, as long as I can buy what I want and we can keep a roof over our head, I don't care where or who the money is coming from. This is a knee jerk excuse for people to justify bad behavior. This is 
1950's type thinking that has no place in today's world.

I wish you luck - but it sounds like either you tow the line and become what she believes is the ideal husband or she will punish you until you do. Such a no-win situation for you both.


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## escravo215 (Dec 8, 2010)

Hey lime,

It's like she's aged 20 years. The sex thing, she approaches it like a job, it's like doing it to a pillow. The money thing, we've kept them separate for tax reasons. As for me saying I pay for the utilities and all, the breakdown is 250 a week for daycare, 70 a week for food, and 25-30 a week for gas. this is on top of the 500-700 a month for utilities. As for my daughter,I pick her up everyday from school and daycare. Every friday we go to like McDonalds or something and spend Daddy-Daughter day together until my wife stopped it. Everyday my daughter and i do her homework together and I'm teaching her to become responsible for her schoolwork and studies. With my son, I go to his daycare twice a month to talk to his class about getting fit and staying in shape. So I get kiddy time in. There's not a day I don't open my door and hear "DADDY!!" As for chores, I've done all of our laundry every week for the last 10 years and maybe she's done it twice. I also clean the bathrooms, the dishes, the floors, and wash the car every week. Always. So I do my part around the house. And nothing.It's like I look at her and say to myself "What else do you want? You take my job, my friends, my games, you're trying to divide up the kids, What the F is your problem?"

WW (nice, DeadPool),

It's like I have to go along with everything she does because she wants to do it. If I want to do something, after we get there 30 minutes later we have to leave. We got into conversation a while ago about how I act differently around her. I told her that because people accept who I am and what I do, you don't. We went to a counselor and the counselor asked "well why can't he be his own person? He was when you met him, when you fell in love with him?' She couldn't answer. I don't think I looked at her the entire time we were there.

GP,

At one point I was depressed. It was like I got up in the morning, went to work, got the kids, did homework, picked her up from work, brought everyone home, then went back to work, only to come home to a cold dinner and the obligatory "not tonight" for the longest. After a while I just started to workout on my own to deal with the urges and just life in general.

Yogachick,

I'm trying, believe me. I feel the same way, it should always be about the relationship. But with her I get this "deal with it" attitude


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

escravo215


Your wife has taken you for granted. She is ignoring your basic needs. 

I don't know what's in her mind. In my opinion, she only thinks about her own needs and her career. 

She is driving you away......................

I can't understand women who want men but who don't want to have sex with men. I just can't understand them because I am so different. Providing sex has never been an issue for me. Men need sex, if you want men, then you know you need to give them sex. Why don't some women understand this? If you don't want to have sex, why do you bring another man into a miserable sexless marriage? You are fine without sex, but he isn't! 

From your posts, it makes me feel that your love for her is dead.............


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## r2d210 (Nov 3, 2010)

For me, the turning point in my relationship seemed to be when I made the decision that I no longer cared whether I made it together or not. This decision represented a conscious letting go of trying to control something that was clearly not in my control. By accepting this process of letting go, I finally recieved what I really wanted. Once she realizes your no longer willing to do what you do, and be who she wants you to be, the decision is hers to fight to keep you by changing her ways, or watch you walk away. 

How to become a healthy man
1. Surrender (You let go of what you can't control)
2. Dwell in reality (Respond, don't react) 
3. Express feelings (Saying what your feeling IS ok!)
4. Face Fears (Fear is normal, facing them is hard....)
5. Develop integrity (Hold on to your N.U.T.S! Non-negotiable, un-alterable terms!)
6. Set Boundaries (Self Explanitory!)

Your a good man, you are strong, confident and have needs. Do not be needy. You love your children. If she can't see the value in that, she will loose a wonderful man and life. She and you have lot's to think about. BTW, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" changed my life. Look it up on Amazon. Very much worth the read! 

One more piece of great advice I recieved on this board....

The rules 

-------------------------------------------------------------

If you are a man and you want to have a passionate relationship with your wife:
1. ALL dominance starts in-house. That means you learn to control YOUR emotions - especially the two biggest enemies fear and uncontrolled anger. A man is always able to control his hanger and delay satisfaction.
2. True control of emotions enables great self control of your behavior. Not just the words that issue from your mouth, but your body language. Emotional A/C
3. The baseline against which you measure behavior is the golden rule. Do NOT allow people to treat you worse than you would treat them. 
4. Acknowledge that without respect you have nothing. ALL respect emanates from in-house. If you don't respect yourself, well you can finish that sentence. 
5. Earn respect by performing, demand respect by inflicting swift and sure consequences when treated in an unacceptable manner.
6. Be empathetic and supportive and loving when your W is hurting.
7. Be stern and firm when she is taking her bad day/bad mood out on you.
8. Be fun to be around. Playful, upbeat, fun and funny.
9. Be around less and make it clear why when you are not being treated fairly.
10. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE NEEDS. Express them. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE NEEDY. There is a giant difference between the two.
11. Learn your W. A husband who says "no one can understand women, does not understand his wife. This lack of knowledge is often fatal to the marriage" Pay attention - she is likely fairly consistent. 
12. Accept that your W will love you MORE when you assert yourself in a rational, strong, firm and consistent manner. 
13. Learn to talk a LOT LESS and communicate much more and much better with body language.

Hope that helps! Good Luck!


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## escravo215 (Dec 8, 2010)

Sad thing is GP, we have two kids together and I will be DAMNED if someone else even dares to try to raise my kids while I have a breath in my body.

MWIM,
when we went to the session with the counselor, she told her this is the only way I'll communicate with him. When she asked why, her response was "this is how I'm dealing with it, this is who he married" and I just sat there. You could have fried an egg on my head. To me it's one of life's great questions "Why do some women think they need to change some men, and then change them and completely lose interest?" 

tobio,
I agree with you. Fitness was the one thing that I knew if I got the opportunity to be good at, I'd knock it out of the park. Talking to my little sister a while back, she put it into perspective for me: You are doing what you love, and people are paying you money to do it. How many people can say they have a job that not only they love, but are good at? And you have someone that wants to take that away from you. If the shoe was on the other foot, she'd flip you off in a heart beat!

rdr210,
I talked to a good friend and she said the same thing: You are a tiger in the ring, relentless and savage. You are a lion on the floor, dominant and unwavering with a charisma that no one would have thought you had. But for some reason you are a straight-up ***** when you're around your wife. That bull-ish has got to cease. So I just keep pushing forward.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I guess the question is then - is this who you married? Has she always shut down when she is upset or not getting her way? Even when I get very upset with my husband, I don't conversate with him using sticky notes (to me this is crazy).

I don't know about the changing part. I think its that nuturing, fix-it gene that most of us women have. Also, I've found, through extensive research on men/women, relationships, etc., that most women want their men to be like their best girlfriend and that's never going to happen, but some keep trying.

I agree with your sister, she should support you and love you in what you like to do, not try to make you into her (which it sounds like she is trying to do) - make you a male version of her.

Hopefully counseling will help, if not, you might want to think of letting go and finding someone who will appreciate you for who/what you are, not what they want you to be.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

escravo215

Staying in an unhappy marriage just because of your kids, I don't know if it is good. 

When you are not happy, I don't think you have much energy to make your kids happy. You can only provide something basic. Something basic is different from something vivid. 

Your wife has done enough damage to your marriage, she should shoulder some responsibility to fix this, if she doesn't, I don't think you have a different solution. 

Physical and emotional intimacy is important in a marriage, if we don't have it, it is like living as a walking corpse(no emotion, Chinese idiom). 

It broke my heart when I got divorced and couldn't raise my son anymore. But I trusted my ex than he would do a good job to raise my wonderful son, he did and he does. Besides, we all have a different way to grow up, no one can say this is definitely good and that is definitely bad.


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