# I am pissed of as never before.



## SweetAndSour

*SKIP TO POST #105 FOR A SINGLE POST VERSION OF MY STORY.
*



Wife and I are together for 22 years and married for 20 years

I am 46 years old, wife is 41.

We have two kids, age 5 years and 18 months (why wait for so long to have children ? anyways,,,,,).

We had an unplanned pregnancy 4 months ago. I was really excited and happy but not really being able to share it with my wife because of her being panicked and disturbed attitude about it. 

I was happy for the prospect of having another baby and she was not.

Two months ago and two months into pregnancy, she had the abortion. I was surprised how swiftly she acted on having the 
abortion and did it before I realised that it was really going to happen. 

She didn't want the baby mainly because, according to her, she is the sole bread winner lately and she couldn't take more responsibility. I'd give it to her, if I didn't know her beliefs and where she stands for all those years. She (and I) continued to express guilt and sorrow for the abortion we had during the early times of our relationships 20 years ago. 

Financially there wasn't any immediate concern. Where we live, a women continues to be paid in full and plus during the pregnancy and after the delivery while having the 6 months (or more) leave of work. We have the best insurance coverage, great doctors, hospitals. And having another sibling would'nt put our two kids future in jeopardy, for financial reasons at least. 

She adores our kids. She values life so that she (would) put(s) her life on the line for others, animals' included. She menages to stay vegetarian despite of being a gourme meat lover inside. She supports charities for abondened, mistreated kids, donates and works for them, sometimes comes home crying for some of the kids she met and would adopt one, last year if I'd go for it (I think).

Well again, I was surprised.

If it was a well layed out movie it would lead to something extraordinary about her not wanting that baby. Don't get the wrong idea, baby was mine, I think.... And I don't think that she had any affair around the time of that pregnancy, I think........ 

The abortion was the turning point. Before, we were just back from a realy nice holliday and after we were crumbling into pieces in every meaning.

Next day after the abortion, late morning, she called me from work and blasted me about me not calling her to ask her how is she doing. She started preaching me about how I don't care about her well being and don't suport her on the phone. 

I had cried and threw up twice already then. I lost it there. I gave her the whole nine yards. Started with reminding her how we celebrated our first two borns first scans, the whole graphics like baby already having the arms and legs, feeling the pain of being thorn apart, etc....We had the first (appearently last) ultrasound scan and images of the baby few days ago. 

I hope I did'nt go against forum rules here. I don't want to start a debate about abortion and it is the least of my concerns right now. I can't cut it short to the point most of the time, still I want to come across with where I am, that's all. 

She ended up visiting the closest shrink immediatedly after our phone conversation. 

I know I'm posting to CWI, I'll come to infidelity and desperately trying to cope with it part soon. Now it is really late here and I need to listen to some music before I try to catch some sleep.

Thanks for reading. I'll continue, put things into focus and look forward for your opinions. 

I too say, I wish I had TAM and you guys, 20, 18 and 12 years ago. 

Did I say "Borderline Personality Disorder", we got that too, not an official diagnosis though, just my biased opinion.


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## tacoma

She did this without consulting you and deciding together?
No compromise, no questions, no statement of need?

I`d be very pissed.
I`m lost for words.


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## that_girl

I am so sorry for your loss.

You have every right to be pissed. She aborted your child. I think in a marriage, this is just wrong. How sad.


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## kenmoore14217

Totally unacceptable! A wife does not do this, period! A girlfriend might however. And there lies the corundum.


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## Shaggy

Let me guess, the baby wasn't yours? It was from her having an affair ? So she got the abortion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio

Shaggy said:


> Let me guess, the baby wasn't yours? It was from her having an affair ? So she got the abortion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Kinda what I was thinking after reading the story/// 

Sorry, hope not true.


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## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> Let me guess, the baby wasn't yours? It was from her having an affair ? So she got the abortion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, that was my first thought as well. If I were the OP I'm not sure I could stay with her. If she aborted *his* baby without deciding together that would be a deal breaker and if it was the *product of an affair* that would be a deal breaker too. So sorry you're going through this.


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## Cogo123

You both needed to talk about this.
I am sure you both will need some counseling. I am thinking she will never tell you the truth as to if it was your child or someone else's but that has to hang heavy on her mind. If she had an affair which resulted in a pregnancy she has much to be apologetic about. I am sure it will make your marriage very difficult and I hope that you can begin to heal and forgive her for what she did to both of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngryandUsed

*I know I'm posting to CWI, I'll come to infidelity and desperately trying to cope with it part soon.*

Other members have already commented. Since you have posted in CWI, the main theme here, I wait....


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## Mamatomany

The betrayal you must be feeling is heart wrenching.
I hope that two will both seek some counseling together and separately. 

I can't imagine her doing that without saying anything or consulting you. I know when I was pregnant w/ one of mine, my H didn't take it well and he seemed so upset w/ me I remember exactly where I was when I asked him almost 7 yrs ago if he wanted me to abort it. His reaction to the news wasn't good and I was so hurt.


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## Thor

Betrayal comes in many forms, not just sexual affairs. If this was your baby it is still a huge breach of trust. I'm sorry you are going through this.

My wife kept some secrets from me since we first met, including that she was sexually abused as a child. She told me last summer after 29 years of marriage. It has rocked me to the core. Not the abuse itself (which saddens me deeply that she experienced it and the fallout from it), but the lies and secrecy surrounding it.

The destruction of trust eats away at a relationship. It makes one question everything about the relationship from the beginning. It makes one a bit paranoid of current events. It may also affect you in many of the same ways as discovering a physical affair, such as PTSD.

To recover your relationship you will have to deal with the trust issues as much as the events which damaged the trust. A book which helped me a lot was "After the Affair". I found that the issues of trust, communication, sex, forgiveness, and love were very applicable outside of the realm of physical affairs.

There is good evidence that journaling is helpful in overcoming the internal trauma of betrayals. Writing letters to her but not sending them can be cathartic also.


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## happyman64

I feel for you and your wife. You are going to be dealing with many issues moving forward.

My prayers to your family....


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## SweetAndSour

I had to start somewhere. Abortion was the turning point. Kick to my butt, sucker punch to my belly and blow to my head, all at once that woke me up from years of extreemly beta male dream that I've been calling "my life". 

At this point I believe that baby was mine. I tried to hint that in my first post. So, there is not going to be any update on that (I think). 

I can't prove otherwise. Actually I wished that she came up to me and said that baby was'nt mine. Then it would be much closer to black than white. Now it is still gray, the limbo....


I better finish the abortion story first. 

I put myself on the back seat before the abortion. I was worried about her age, 41. I was also ashamed that I was'nt able to provide the financial security which a women rightfuly needs during a pregnancy and beyond. 

We went to our (gyno) doctor whom I feel lucky to have from our first two kids' conception to delivery. We became kind of friends eventually. This is important because he knew that I wanted that baby. There was'nt a comminucation mishap about that. 

Doctor said baby looked healthy at that point. Poor thing was laying on her side. I felt that it was a girl. I was going to video the whole exam and get the scan print outs as I did with our other kids before but my wife made me unconfortable all along. I wish I realised where we headed then. 

After the exam, doctor said baby was fine and with the recent track record of my wife, her age and health was not an issue. She mumbled a little bit about this is not being a planned pregnancy, she asked about the legal deadline of having an abortion but mostly seemed undecided.

Her pregnancies were really easy. She's never had a morning sickness, food cravings, gaining weight, mood swings (not more than her usual). Her self admitted high pain tolerance was also usefull during tests, like amniosynthesis, frequent, blood draws and up to the delivery. She could carry me to delivery room on her back and joking on the way. She was like we could have ten babies if we started earlier. 

We talked about it. I said I want this baby and she said I am not sure and towards the last couple of days she started saying that "I am having an abortion". I didn't take her seriously. It started downing on me the night before when she asked me to set the alarm a little early so she can catch a taxi to clinic since she wasn't driving herself. I said set your alarm yourself, how beta of me. 

In the morning she was on her way. I started the realising/panicking process. I started calling her on her cell constantly, begging her to come back. And after about five times she answered, her phone went dead...... 

It was the time to rush out the door, drive like crazy and get to the clinic before it is too late

But at that time I was preparing breakfast for two kids, changing diaper, already tuned in to a 4 year old's cartoon on TV and most 
importantly lacking the necessary balls, testosterone, and adrenaline like every other beta men. 

I got what I deserved.......She had the abortion.

I really need to cut it shorter than this. Just the facts;

We where having a sexless marriage almost from the beginning. Can you believe living through about 18 years without any birth control and not having any pregnancies ? That was the first thing that we had to explain to our doctor after he could'nt find anything biologically wrong. We had our first child via invitro fertilisation way.

Last year, we had sex only three times. All initiated by me when I am half awake so that I am mostly animal and she is totaly asleep so that her participation is not required at least at the beginning.

First session of the year was around last winter, we had a lousy sex and both orgasmed. I came inside of her, it was not around her 
ovulation time.

Second time, last september, lousy sex, she orgasmed, and then I pulled out and came on her back because it was close to her ovulation days.

Third time, around mid october, initiated by me half asleep, she suddenly turned and said "heck, I am probably pregnant, lets do it". Pretty good and wet sex. she had the multiplies and I was happy too. 

Second time above counts for the cause of her last pregnancy. It is a little peculier that after 20 years of unprotected, altough seldom sex she becoms pregnant at our older age with a minute amount of my precome. Well dates correspondes fine. (I think)

You will see a lot of "I think"s in paranthesis in my post. It is my way of saying that "You never know". 


One thing I have yet to tell you about abortion is how I ended up in ER room with a panic attack. I'll come to that too and then comes infidelities. Now it is too late again and I have to wake upearly.

I read your responses. I have been lurking, reading your stories for the last month or so too. I had tears in my eyes more times than I remember, bless you all. 

I should again say that aborted baby was probably mine, I don't have a betreyal story around that.

Lately, we both been in terapies and I put on medicine for anxiety and depression 

THOR; Your post rings many bels. 
I did that journaling 12 years ago during the most devistating affair my wife had. It helps. And yes betreyal comes in many forms as love comes in many forms.

I have more to tell you.

Take care and thanks.


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## Chaparral

This would be a sexless marriage, at least with you. Go here and get the book also::

Married Man Sex Life

Although this looks like its going to be bad. Why have you stayed in a sexless marriage?


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## tacoma

I find it even more suspicious that you`re in a sexless marriage and she gets pregnant and aborts without your consent or discussion.

It`s very off.

My head would be screaming infidelity.


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## kenmoore14217

Yes, it's very off. (I think)


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## chillymorn

denial.


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## Beowulf

Ok, let me get this straight. You had sex three times last year. Your wife is 41. And she gets pregnant. You do realize that a 41 year old woman does not conceive like a teenager right? The chances that she conceived with you are not good.

You told her you wanted the baby and she went and had the abortion anyway?

I hold to my original opinion and now I feel even stronger that she is having an affair, got pregnant and had the abortion to terminate the pregnancy. If she had given birth and you even slightly suspected an affair you could have ordered a DNA test and that would have put her in an extremely bad situation.

If in the very unlikely event you were the father you expressed your strong feelings and she decided to go ahead with the abortion anyway.

Most assuredly this would be a deal breaker for me. I would not be able to stay married to this woman.


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## Atholk

Agree that it sounds questionable as to whether or not you were the father, but I'm not sure whether that matters now.

Either she cheated on you and aborted someone else's baby to cover her ass... or she aborted your baby without your express agreement.

Either way, it's all over isn't it?


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## bandit.45

Two scenarios:

1) She cheated on you, got knocked up by the other guy and aborted the fetus.

2) She got pregnant by you and killed your child.

Both scenarios are divorceable offenses.


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## AngryandUsed

Lets wait guys. Let OP complete.


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## Chaparral

AngryandUsed said:


> Lets wait guys. Let OP complete.


Fine, but its going to get way worse.


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## 5stringpicker

She probably gave him a little poon tang when she was late to cover her tracks. She solved her problem with the abortion by getting rid of the evidence. This guys hanging around hoping his loving wife will give a little more three of four months down the road if he behaves himself and keeps saying, "what else can I do for you my queen". The more of this stuff I read, the more I thank God he made me an alpha male.


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## lordmayhem

SweetAndSour said:


> Last year, we had sex only three times. All initiated by me when I am half awake so that I am mostly animal and she is totaly asleep so that her participation is not required at least at the beginning.
> 
> First session of the year was around last winter, we had a lousy sex and *both orgasmed*. I came inside of her, it was not around her ovulation time.
> 
> Second time, last september, lousy sex, *she orgasmed*, and then I pulled out and came on her back because it was close to her ovulation days.
> 
> Third time, around mid october, initiated by me half asleep, *she suddenly turned and said "heck, I am probably pregnant, lets do it". Pretty good and wet sex. she had the multiplies and I was happy too. *
> 
> Second time above counts for the cause of her last pregnancy. It is a little peculier that after 20 years of unprotected, altough seldom sex she becoms pregnant at our older age with a minute amount of my precome. Well dates correspondes fine. (I think)


Well your post proves that she isn't frigid and she can orgasm when you do have sex. I'm no sex therapist, but geez, it would seem that she does have a sex drive, she just doesn't want it with you.

Experience has show here that either the sex dries up, or it increases when the WW is having an affair. In some stories here, the WW can have sex with the OM and come straight home and have sex with the BH. So I tend to agree with 5stringpicker, that she probably had sex with you to cover her tracks. Everything about this seems to scream affair, but its hard to say for sure unless you have proof. 

What other red flags have you seen so far? Any unsual computer/cell phone use? On the surface it may seem that she's been having LTAs, but you will have to do some further investigating.

It will depend on what you consider a deal breaker for you. You said you're a beta male. Are you a Stay At Home Dad (SAHD)?


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## SweetAndSour

Atholk said:


> Agree that it sounds questionable as to whether or not you were the father, but I'm not sure whether that matters now.
> 
> Either she cheated on you and aborted someone else's baby to cover her ass... or she aborted your baby without your express agreement.
> 
> Either way, it's all over isn't it?


You got it right Atholk,

At this point, I don't care if I was the father or an alien who beamed himself into our bedroom and screwed my wife with his big, blue, vibrating **** while I am kept unconcious by the anesthethics injected in my ass through aliens other ****.

And yes alot is over. It is impossible to make it "all over" with two very young kids.


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## lordmayhem

SweetAndSour said:


> She adores our kids. She values life so that she (would) put(s) her life on the line for others, animals' included. She menages to stay vegetarian despite of being a gourme meat lover inside. She supports charities for abondened, mistreated kids, donates and works for them, sometimes comes home crying for some of the kids she met and would adopt one, last year if I'd go for it (I think).


No wonder you were surprised.

Well, if R isn't a possiblity, then it's time to lawyer up. With you being the prime caregiver, there's a good chance that you can get full custody, child support, and alimony. But see a lawyer to check what your options really are.


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## Beowulf

SweetAndSour said:


> You got it right Atholk,
> 
> At this point, I don't care if I was the father or an alien who beamed himself into our bedroom and screwed my wife with his big, blue, vibrating **** while I am kept unconcious by the anesthethics injected in my ass through aliens other ****.
> 
> And yes alot is over. It is impossible to make it "all over" with two very young kids.


Contrary to what you may believe your children will be getting a better father if you divorce and they don't grow up in a house full of resentment and anger. That type of environment is not healthy. Better for them to see you in a loving relationship with another woman as a good example of how life should be lived. It seems your wife checked out of the marriage a long time ago. I think it's time you did the same and put end this false relationship for good. It will be better all around.


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## SweetAndSour

lordmayhem said:


> it would seem that she does have a sex drive, she just doesn't want it with you.
> 
> What other red flags have you seen so far?
> 
> You said you're a beta male. Are you a Stay At Home Dad (SAHD)?


Yes, she is not asexual, I make her asexual.

I don't need anymore red flags. We have been through pretty ugly stuff already, details are coming.

I am practicaly a stay home dad.


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## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> Contrary to what you may believe your children will be getting a better father if you divorce and they don't grow up in a house full of resentment and anger. That type of environment is not healthy. Better for them to see you in a loving relationship with another woman as a good example of how life should be lived. It seems your wife checked out of the marriage a long time ago. I think it's time you did the same and put end this false relationship for good. It will be better all around.



I am cosidering divorce too. I am not at a point yet that I can decide where I take it from here.


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## SweetAndSour

AngryandUsed said:


> Lets wait guys. Let OP complete.


Yes, I will try to complete my story, as soon as I can. Things may be a little different, still not better, than what it seems like now.


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## that_girl

bandit.45 said:


> Two scenarios:
> 
> 1) She cheated on you, got knocked up by the other guy and aborted the fetus.
> 
> 2) She got pregnant by you and killed your child.
> 
> Both scenarios are divorceable offenses.


Your wording is interesting. When it's the OM's child, it's a fetus. But when it's OP's child, it's a child.

The child was not guilty of anything.

I am sorry, OP, for what you're going through  I couldn't imagine. When Hubs' got snipped, it was a mutual decision...I couldn't imagine if he just went and did it (we weren't married at the time but living together..we have a child)...


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## bandit.45

> Your wording is interesting. When it's the OM's child, it's a fetus. But when it's OP's child, it's a child.


For males, it's all about territory and passing on our genes. Don't kid yourself.

And, I for one am against abortion in the majority of cases.


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## that_girl

bandit.45 said:


> For males, it's all about territory and passing on our genes. Don't kid yourself.
> 
> And, I for one am against abortion in the majority of cases.


I wasn't kidding myself. Whether it's your child or not, it's still a child, or a fetus. lol.


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## AngryandUsed

Lets focus on helping the OP. The digressions are not going to help anyone.


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## crossbar

I don't know....seems fishy to me.

I mean, my wife and I weren't financially set when she got pregnant, but it was like "Oh well! You want to play adult games, sometimes you pay adult prices." Abortion was never and option for either of us, because we created a child together. If we ever thought about abortion, then I KNOW it would have been a deadly serious decussion for the BOTH of us. 

Now, I know that not all people are the same, and how they react to things are different. HOWEVER, for her to quickly abort without ANY input from you what-so-ever? Kinda raised my eyebrows a bit.


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## SweetAndSour

Upper limit for selective abortion is 12 weeks here. Our doctor suggested to do it before 8 weeks to keep things medically less complicated, if it was going to be the case. 

8 weeks were up in few days, that is way she suddenly got up to speed and finished it in the following days after the exam. In fact, for the last three weeks, after she missed her period, she was'nt in any kind of rush. 

We've been talking and joking about the possibility of her being pregnant. One of the jokes was, me not having a real sex life and still being in the position of having to deal with the complications of sex after having one lousy session. I never meant I didn't want the baby. I was just playing the role of a high school kid for a joke. I always made her (and myself) laugh even during the worst times we had. 

Another thing I should mention is that we are able to conceive via natural way. First it happend 20 years ago, with our mutual decision. We ended it at second week of pregnancy. She was so upset immidiately after that first abortion. She had been through all common and healthy symptoms. The guilt, feeling of loss, crying when she saw a pregnant woman or a baby around, for months. And we both have regreted what we have done, ever since. 

We started to try for a baby, around 2001, two years after our false reconciliation and totaly sexless marriage, what a fool I am. We had sex once or twice during that certain time of month and never mised our vitamins and suplements. 

Nothing happend for the next five years. Then we decided to see a fertilisation specialist. Guess what, during her first exam Doctor saw a baby, around one months old in her womb. Unfortuanetely we lost the baby at 12 weeks into pregnancy.

Then two years later we had our first baby via invitro fertilisation.

Then it happend again. When we decided to have our second baby, we went back to our invitro doctor. He planned to start her treatment after her next period. We had been having dutyfull sex (duty for her) for the last few months for our next baby. When we showed up at doctors office for invitro, after delayed period, he saw the baby already in place. Smart baby saved us spending thousands of dollars, won herself a free delivery. That's how we had our daughter. 

What I am coming to is, we are used to have unexpected pregnancies when chances are slim after so many years of drought. 

My invitro boy and oldschool girl both look exactly like me and behieve like me, it is unbeliavable. I don't think a DNA test is necessary. We live in a mediterranean country, there are not a lot of guys around looking like me. I have a nordic/slavic complexion. I am not going to say "you never know" this time, kids must be mine. 

Now, she hasn't expressed any remorse for the second abortion yet. She still maintains that she did the right thing. Let alone killing the baby, after seeing the change in our marriage which her selfish act triggered, she should damn be sorry and say I did a bad thing, very bad thing. I know she is already there inside but she is still trying to keep her guard up by showing a contend face.


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## Chaparral

3 days and still no sign of whats goin on.


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## 5stringpicker

He's obviously going to assume a prostrate position and ask forgiveness from his queen for being angered by her actions. He'd rather be a mouse with her than a lion without her. No wonder she treats him like crap. He's a low T kind of guy.


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## Chaparral

I think he just wants to see how far off the track people will go.


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## SweetAndSour

I am hoping to end this abortion saga with this last post, enough with abortion.

She had the abortion around middle of last November. Like I explained before, I wasted her on the phone next day. She found a psychiatrist immediately. I did'nt talk to her for the next four days and she would be dead by now if looks could kill. I was in very bad mood. 

Then I started coming out. Just for starting the "dealing with it in dialog" process and releave my guilt a little bit, I approached her and asked; 

"Would you not have the abortion if I were a little more adamant about it ?" I said nothing else.

She turned around, opened her mouth and gave me a tongue lash for about five minutes. She ended by saying "Divorce is fine with me, just make your mind up and let me know in a week"

I said WOWWW inside, nothing else, I just turned around and left the room thinking where the hell is that D word coming from ? 

About three weeks after her ultimatum, I learned that a married woman can not have an abortion or any operation for birth control without written consent from her husband and the doctor or the medical facility is responsible to obtain it before such procedure. 

Of course I didn't provide any consent to anybody in that subject, including the IUD she have had placed during her control visit without my knowledge.

It was sunday. I learned that when I was checking local law over the internet. I jolted up my seat and started cursing myself. 

I have always had a great sense of justice, I am like a lawyer without formal education. I've never played the victim (except against my wife). When I had to stand for my or my wifes rights I did it without hesitation. They were mostly business and work place related. I always had one or two lawyers at hand. All my cases ended in my favour. What I am saying is I have always protected my legal rights, sometimes just for the sake of justice even when I know at the beginning that it will cost me financially at the end. And I never went for legaly isn't mine. 

How did I let it slip this time ? I was gonna sue the doctors ass with every possible demand. And donate the money for charities. I was thinking to put my wife on to witness stand forcefuly just to see their faces against each other (doc's and wife's). And possibly sue my wife too.

Soon after my discovery I started showing the full symptoms of panic attack and hospitalized. Then I was referred to a psychiatrist.

I will never forgive her for the abortion. She is a baby killer. I forbid her to do any charity for kids anymore. Does'nt seem right. 

That's all abaout the abortion.


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## Mrs. T

What a fu*ked up story. I don't know what else to say but that.


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## calif_hope

I have doubts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. T

I think I saw this on Jerry Springer...


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## 5stringpicker

I personally believe the Hawaiian disease, Lackanookki has started to effect his mind. It's especially bad on men with no balls.


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## lordmayhem

Since she isn't frigid, how was she satisfying her needs? She OBVIOUSLY wasn't giving it up to you. 

Guess who was satisfying her sexual needs?


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## SweetAndSour

Come on guys I have'nt started the infidelity part yet let alone coping with it.


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## Struggling4ever

calif_hope said:


> I have doubts!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I was reading this, I wondered if "OneMan" was not back with yet another alter ego? When I first posted, the first thing I was told was to break up my paragraphs to make it easier to read... Hope all works out for S & S but it's a longshot.... Good luck...if this is real and you stay (or leave), you will need it.


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## SweetAndSour

I may bring some light on the troll quality of my posts. It is easier then to start on another mega post.

I am a quite troll buster myself on other mostly engineering/science forums I attend. A hit and run troll just hits and runs, I am beyond that. A multiple personality repeating troll is always on a mission to get even with some long time contributers, am I like that ? Finally a troll defends himself as not being a troll as I do now.... ooops.. No I am not a troll believe me.

1.I started with a controversial subject, abortion.

2.It's been four pages on my own thread and I still haven't got to the infidelity part.

3.I seem to enjoy creating some suspens and attention created by it.

4.My story doesn't add up well.

To explain those, I'd say;

1.Abortion... I am not religous, in fact I am an atheist. Still I am as spiritual as jesus and more of a family man than he was, I should add moses, budha and mohammed to that to be politically correct. So that the abortion my wife had filled me with such anger that It is not even close to the anger and etc.. I felt when she had cheated. So I had to start with that part if I was going to open up here. 

2.Instead of simply stating where am I, I detail what took me here. I contribute to some technical forums. I am the guy with the longest posts there too, I admire morituri here with his simplicity to the point.

3.I am not trying to create suspense. Writing that long is tiresome but I can not cut it to the point any shorter. About enjoying this... I can not really say that I enjoy it but I can say that writing here is definitly theurepathic. Saying it out loud in tears in a way. I ended up here like most of you did. A google search, finding TAM and than getting hooked on reading as much stories as you can. Feeling like you are not alone and then feeling like it is time to tell your story. Than dissepeare.... I guess.... It is all part of the process 

4.My story does'nt make sense, my story doesn't add up, there is something off............

Hey people..... Nothing make sense, nothing adds up, everything is more off than on. Nothing is just, nothing is deserved.

We are in the twilight zone forever.


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## SweetAndSour

rock said:


> 41, only precum, and pregnant? No. If everything you've said is exact, I doubt that was your child she aborted. If by precum you mean the clear sticky fluid (Cowper's fluid) that lubricates your urethra (in some men, drips after an erection) for ejaculation, I doubt it. It may contain some sperm but it's very unlikely it could impregnate a 41 year old who previously needed in vitro.
> 
> 
> However, she wouldn't have said, 'Oh heck, I am already pregnant...." if it wasn't your baby, imo. Maybe you did a little more than precum and because the sex was so lousy, you just don't remember. I assume if she let another man cum in her and impregnate her, she would have kept quiet and asked you to cum in her again for good measure, to keep you doing math and confused. She sounds like a smart girl.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with whatever it is you are coping with right now.


Rock, 

I read your "Is it okay for a guy to have intercourse without having an orgasm?" Thread.

I would take you as being the wife on that story if you didn't say you are the man. Don't get me wrong many people say that I am the wife and my wife is the husband in our marriage. Our conselors said the same thing recently, and I don't have a problem with that.

My body and psyche works different then yours when it comes to sex and orgasm. I can come in 40 seconds if I'm in hurry and masturbating. I can hold it back as long as I want if I am having sex every other day.

I don't think my wife got pregnant with my precome. Yes, I am talking about the secretions from cowper's glands. Precum is not something only some man have. It is the male version of woman getting wet. It is very essential and necessary. Precum always carries some tiny amount of sperms. And those little bastards turns a young man's and women's world upside down sometimes.

That night, the night, I made my wife suppousedly pregnant went like this.

We were not having sex for a while. I was ready to explode in any second. While I was trying to bang her to the "O" I was also trying to hold my guys back. I am sure many of you had that experience. If I try to stop my ejaculation really hard, I don't get the rhytmic spasms that facilitates ejaculation. But after some point semen starts to ooze out without any definite spasm and without any orgasm. Thats what happend that night.

I pulled out as soon as I feel the ooze and let most of it come on her back. If some semen may have been left in her I would'nt be surprised. When that oozing starts is not as definite as regular cum and orgasm.

Still it is a very slim chance after all. It is more than a red flag.

I wish she was a smart girl, really I do.


----------



## SweetAndSour

We were married for 1.5 years when she had her first affair. 

We both were talking about not doing a good job as husband and wife, either of us, and considering to consider divorce. It was mostly a talk we engage sometimes after the problems we had during our (yet) short marrige but other than that we were living in the same house, cooking, eating good food, watching a movie with wine or beer and going to bed together, doing almost everything together at the time. Life was easy, no kids, no health problems, we were financially good. We were working on our second college degrees. We were mostly enjoying what we have than despiseing it.

Frequency of sex was once a week then. For a 23 years old woman and 28 year old man I call it a sexless marriage.

It was a friday or saturday night. A male friend of my wife showed up around 09:00 pm. I saw him once before and she talked to him twice before I guess. He was more of a new acquitance then a friend to her. 

He had asked my wife early that day that if she (and I, for not being too forward I guess) would like to join him and his friends to go to a club/disco that night. She said OK and it didn't seem too far off to me since we were in a college environment and partying/socializing was a good part of it.

I didn't want to join in that group because I was too busy with my work around that time. And they left after last time she asked me to go with them.

After about 02:00 am that night I started getting nervous. She wasn't back, I didn't know the guy well and any one in that group of people. I knew that, that club was closing at 02:00 am. It was a time before we had cell phones.

All I could do is to find his phone (he was living with his family) from the directory and talk to his mom very early in the morning. 


She came back around 07:00 am next morning. She hugged me and started crying. She said she had sex with him.

I was'nt ready for that even after it was so appearent.

It turned out, there was not a group of people, just my wife and him and the friend of his to give them a ride to the club.

I guess even the guy was'nt expecting to score so quick, he didn't made any plans for a **** place. My wife payed for the no tell motel, I guess she dragged him there. 

Seeing her taking off her fancy lingerie, which she only wears for a special occasion, getting ready to get in our bad and crying at the same time....... That was 18 years ago...... Time doesn't heal you if you are on the wrong medicine.....


----------



## SweetAndSour

lordmayhem said:


> Since she isn't frigid, how was she satisfying her needs? She OBVIOUSLY wasn't giving it up to you.
> 
> Guess who was satisfying her sexual needs?


Your question is very valid for a healthy person. She is ****ed up in many fronts so I don't know. 

I would'nt be surprised if tomorrow she ends up in a monestery and become a celibate nune or join to a traveling brothel and **** million men and woman in brasil for the rest of her life.

Only if I am not in her life. She calls me my anchor. I make her to live like a normal person, she says. 


**************BORDERLINE****************

EDIT: 

I need to edit the thing I wrote above. No... she would'nt end up in a monestery or in a brothel. She is not that loony.

She has the capacity to still surprise me with her bad chocies, that all I was trying to say.


----------



## bandit.45

Oh man, oh man. 

This woman is a loser, so bad in every way that I am just speechless.

Why have you put up with this for so long?


----------



## SweetAndSour

Mrs. T said:


> I think I saw this on Jerry Springer...


"Jerry Springer show" and "married with children"....... my two favorites. I learned english and some ebonics watching them.

I used to do really deep hardware and software R&D for fifteen hours a day. I'd could'nt do it if I had'nt have my TV besides my oscilloscope and my six pac every other day.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> Oh man, oh man.
> 
> This woman is a loser, so bad in every way that I am just speechless.
> 
> Why have you put up with this for so long?



I am here to find some answers for myself too. It doesn't make sense.

You are one of my heroes here bandit. I put your story under the "that would have been me" folder in my favorites.

I was a fool for all those years.  If we didn't have the kids now end of my story would be alot like yours.


----------



## Beowulf

SweetAndSour said:


> I am here to find some answers for myself too. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> You are one of my heroes here bandit. I put your story under the "that would have been me" folder in my favorites.
> 
> I was a fool for all those years. If we didn't have the kids now end of my story would be alot like yours.


I'm sorry to say but kids or not you need to do just what bandit did. What you have described so far is wholly unaccepted on many levels. You staying with her is unhealthy for your children. They need a solid moral role model in their lives. Your wife is obviously incapable of being that and by staying with her so are you. Just my opinion.


----------



## bandit.45

This last abortion fiasco should be the deal breaker! This woman is toxic and amoral. You are doing your children no favors staying together with her. I recommend you file for divorce as soon as possible.

There is no happy ending to this. Stay with her and you get treated like trash for the rest of your life, divorce and you will go through a tough time of readjustment, but in my opinion divorce is the lesser of two evils here.

I would also hang her physicians out to dry and get as much money as you can. The hospital where this was perfromed will not want it to go to trial and they will settle handsomely. I would use that money to relocate as far away from that Valkyrie as you can, and start a new healthy home for you and your children.


----------



## Struggling4ever

SweetAndSour said:


> I may bring some light on the troll quality of my posts. Finally a troll defends himself as not being a troll as I do now.... ooops.. No I am not a troll believe me.


I never mentioned the word troll? The first time I ever heard it was in a fake post last week where the person ended up getting his account deleted. I don't know or care who you are but you sure went to a lot of time and detail trying to explain why you weren't a "troll"? Your business. If this is all really on the up and up....I sincerely hope things work out well for you but it sounds like you have a tough road ahead of you for sure!
Good luck S & S...


----------



## AmandaC

SweetAndSour said:


> I may bring some light on the troll quality of my posts. It is easier then to start on another mega post.
> 
> I am a quite troll buster myself on other mostly engineering/science forums I attend. A hit and run troll just hits and runs, I am beyond that. A multiple personality repeating troll is always on a mission to get even with some long time contributers, am I like that ? Finally a troll defends himself as not being a troll as I do now.... ooops.. No I am not a troll believe me.
> 
> 1.I started with a controversial subject, abortion.
> 
> 2.It's been four pages on my own thread and I still haven't got to the infidelity part.
> 
> 3.I seem to enjoy creating some suspens and attention created by it.
> 
> 4.My story doesn't add up well.
> 
> To explain those, I'd say;
> 
> 1.Abortion... I am not religous, in fact I am an atheist. Still I am as spiritual as jesus and more of a family man than he was, I should add moses, budha and mohammed to that to be politically correct. So that the abortion my wife had filled me with such anger that It is not even close to the anger and etc.. I felt when she had cheated. So I had to start with that part if I was going to open up here.
> 
> 2.Instead of simply stating where am I, I detail what took me here. I contribute to some technical forums. I am the guy with the longest posts there too, I admire morituri here with his simplicity to the point.
> 
> 3.I am not trying to create suspense. Writing that long is tiresome but I can not cut it to the point any shorter. About enjoying this... I can not really say that I enjoy it but I can say that writing here is definitly theurepathic. Saying it out loud in tears in a way. I ended up here like most of you did. A google search, finding TAM and than getting hooked on reading as much stories as you can. Feeling like you are not alone and then feeling like it is time to tell your story. Than dissepeare.... I guess.... It is all part of the process
> 
> 4.My story does'nt make sense, my story doesn't add up, there is something off............
> 
> Hey people..... Nothing make sense, nothing adds up, everything is more off than on. Nothing is just, nothing is deserved.
> 
> We are in the twilight zone forever.


:iagree:


----------



## 5stringpicker

SweetAndSour said:


> Rock,
> 
> I can hold it back as long as I want if I am having sex every other day.


You might ought to test that claim S & S. It doesn't sound like you've been having sex ever other day for a number of years. (unless its with widow thumb and her four daughters ) Your wife, on the other hand, probably has. All that aside, you're making this stuff, right?


----------



## lordmayhem

SweetAndSour said:


> About three weeks after her ultimatum, I learned that a married woman can not have an abortion or any operation for birth control without written consent from her husband and the doctor or the medical facility is responsible to obtain it before such procedure.
> 
> Of course I didn't provide any consent to anybody in that subject, including the IUD she have had placed during her control visit without my knowledge.


Is it possible that she forged your signature or possibly had someone else forge your signature? You won't know unless you see the actual papers.


----------



## that_girl

An IUD wouldn't need your approval, would it?


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> I'm sorry to say but kids or not you need to do just what bandit did. What you have described so far is wholly unaccepted on many levels.* You staying with her is unhealthy for your children.* They need a solid moral role model in their lives. Your wife is obviously incapable of being that and by staying with her so are you. Just my opinion.


It is not that clear cut.

We easely say that; For the kids, living with single parents or with parents remarried to someone else is more healtier than living in a disfunctional family home with two original parents.

It is only true if we assume that the problems of the couple are not contained carefully, played out around children, a general sense of anger/conflict/despair is hanging on the air, and abuse is going on, then we can safey say that it is not good for kids, get a divorce.

In our case our home is really cozzy, hospitable, and a mostly fun for our kids, except when we need to enforce some basic rules about food and too much TV. They are thriving well. They have two attentive loving parents. Kids also see that their two parents are loving, caring and affectionate towards each other. We are not faking. Kids are capable sensing the sincerity of things. 

Now you ask, how can you say that you two are not faking, how that monster wife of yours can be good for anybody including her own offspring ?

Well it happens. I don't think it is that rare.

On another thread a poster says "I see cheaters everywhere".

Since my main concern is the kids in the equation, I say "I see fake couples staying together for kids everywhere". Infidelity is involved or not.

Just look around, look into your family, think about that cranky grandpa of yours, you wonder, how grandma could put up with him for all those years ? She must be an angle, probably she is or may be, she never forget about her sweet heart before grandpa but had to marry to grandpa. She devoted herself to their kids and home but grandpa always knew that he wasn't the one. You can change the roles in that story. 

For the similar stories in my family and people I know, It was mostly the right decision to stay together in part of the parents. I saw the kids, my cousins having a happy childhood and grow up to be healthy individuals, having their own family. Now I am older, I am learning about some old stories in my family. Some had enough reasons to seperate but after all those years I say, they failed each other but not their kids.

Almost all my friends who are coming from broken homes chosed to stay single and without kids. I can not say that they are not happy with their choice but I feel like that plug which you attach your spouse and kids is broken inside them.

So.........If a couple can manage to provide the necessary environment for their kids they should remain married at least until kids are out on their own, no matter how sick their love life is.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Struggling4ever said:


> I never mentioned the word troll? The first time I ever heard it was in a fake post last week where the person ended up getting his account deleted. I don't know or care who you are but you sure went to a lot of time and detail trying to explain why you weren't a "troll"? Your business. If this is all really on the up and up....I sincerely hope things work out well for you but it sounds like you have a tough road ahead of you for sure!
> Good luck S & S...


No hard feelings, thanks for your good wishes.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> This last abortion fiasco should be the deal breaker! This woman is toxic and amoral. *You are doing your children no favors staying together with her.* I recommend you file for divorce as soon as possible.


See my response to Beowulf.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> I would also hang her physicians out to dry and get as much money as you can. The hospital where this was perfromed will not want it to go to trial and they will settle handsomely. I would use that money to relocate as far away from that Valkyrie as you can, and start a new healthy home for you and your children.


We are not in US. It would'nt make me a millionaire here, but, malpractice laws are in place and in working order here.

Doctor owns the clinic. He has more freedom there like, not being responsible to answer to the management.

One reason of some parts of my story are not making sense can be explained by me, living in another country, having differet laws and realities.


----------



## SweetAndSour

5stringpicker said:


> You might ought to test that claim S & S. It doesn't sound like you've been having sex ever other day for a number of years. (unless its with widow thumb and her four daughters ) Your wife, on the other hand, probably has. All that aside, you're making this stuff, right?


You are really into some insignificant detail but you are welcome.

Yes there was times that I was having sex more frequently. For your concern, I can hold it as long as I want if I am having it every other day. If I am doing it every day, after a week or so, I cannot orgasm every time, it starts taking me for ever to finish. So I need to stop it without ejaculation every other day, it was still good though.

Having it every other day is my optimum, sustainable frequency level I guess.

Which part do you think that I am making up ?


----------



## SweetAndSour

lordmayhem said:


> Is it possible that she forged your signature or possibly had someone else forge your signature? You won't know unless you see the actual papers.


According to my wife, she was just woking up from anesthasia when she signed the paper. She said, she just signed on the x without paying much attention.

Before you start thinking this can't be, remember this is not happening in US. Still clinics staff made a huge mistake by not finishing the paper work before the operation started, even for the standards here but I am not surprised.

I don't think anybody needed to forge my signature, doctor was pretty well aware that I was against the abortion. They most likely are keeping the paper in file without my signature. I am not even sure if there was a place for my signature on that form but I can find out.

One thing about forging things, on the absentee report from doctor to my wifes work place the operation is stated as "surgical removal of a myoma" not as an abortion, because my wife did'nt want to share it with her work place. Changing or streching things a little for the patients comfort is not that uncommon here.


----------



## SweetAndSour

that_girl said:


> An IUD wouldn't need your approval, would it?


Here It would. 

Law says, "For married woman, husband's permission is required for sterilisation or termination of pregnancy" 

I think birth control pills, foams, and few other simple things are sold without a prescription, here. That law should apply for permanent forms of birth control.

IUD, altough reversible, can be considered as a permanent form of birth control I think.


----------



## SweetAndSour

SweetAndSour said:


> Your question is very valid for a healthy person. She is ****ed up in many fronts so I don't know.
> 
> *I would'nt be surprised if tomorrow she ends up in a monestery and become a celibate nune or join to a traveling brothel and **** million men and woman in brasil for the rest of her life.*
> 
> Only if I am not in her life. She calls me my anchor. I make her to live like a normal person, she says.
> 
> 
> **************BORDERLINE****************



I need to edit the thing I wrote above. No... she would'nt end up in a monestery or in a brothel. She is not that loony.

She has the capacity to still surprise me with her bad chocies, that all I was trying to say.


----------



## Beowulf

SweetAndSour said:


> It is not that clear cut.
> 
> We easely say that; For the kids, living with single parents or with parents remarried to someone else is more healtier than living in a disfunctional family home with two original parents.
> 
> It is only true if we assume that the problems of the couple are not contained carefully, played out around children, a general sense of anger/conflict/despair is hanging on the air, and abuse is going on, then we can safey say that it is not good for kids, get a divorce.
> 
> In our case our home is really cozzy, hospitable, and a mostly fun for our kids, except when we need to enforce some basic rules about food and too much TV. They are thriving well. They have two attentive loving parents. Kids also see that their two parents are loving, caring and affectionate towards each other. We are not faking. Kids are capable sensing the sincerity of things.
> 
> Now you ask, how can you say that you two are not faking, how that monster wife of yours can be good for anybody including her own offspring ?
> 
> Well it happens. I don't think it is that rare.
> 
> On another thread a poster says "I see cheaters everywhere".
> 
> Since my main concern is the kids in the equation, I say "I see fake couples staying together for kids everywhere". Infidelity is involved or not.
> 
> Just look around, look into your family, think about that cranky grandpa of yours, you wonder, how grandma could put up with him for all those years ? She must be an angle, probably she is or may be, she never forget about her sweet heart before grandpa but had to marry to grandpa. She devoted herself to their kids and home but grandpa always knew that he wasn't the one. You can change the roles in that story.
> 
> For the similar stories in my family and people I know, It was mostly the right decision to stay together in part of the parents. I saw the kids, my cousins having a happy childhood and grow up to be healthy individuals, having their own family. Now I am older, I am learning about some old stories in my family. Some had enough reasons to seperate but after all those years I say, they failed each other but not their kids.
> 
> Almost all my friends who are coming from broken homes chosed to stay single and without kids. I can not say that they are not happy with their choice but I feel like that plug which you attach your spouse and kids is broken inside them.
> 
> So.........If a couple can manage to provide the necessary environment for their kids they should remain married at least until kids are out on their own, no matter how sick their love life is.


So what you are saying is that you are incredibly pissed off. So pissed off that you are considering suing the doctor that performed the abortion. So pissed off that you admittedly would want to divorce your wife. So pissed off that you can't think straight sometimes. So pissed off that you needed to come to TAM to vent and ask for advice.

But...

You and your wife are affectionate toward each other and it's not fake???!!!

Buddy, there are some serious holes in your story. Or you are an incredible actor and consummate rug sweeper.


----------



## Shaggy

Why didn't you simply divorce her years ago for so cheating and doing it so blantantly? 

Why don't you divorce her now for her cheating so many years ago?

you write way too many words and rationalizations. You write like a troll, (sorry, but true), you also analyze things until you take no action.

It sounds like years ago you rationalized why you shouldn't divorce her cheating worthless butt - and for that you suffered a deep personal humiliation from which you have never recovered?

Did the cheating continue - did you continue to be a cuckold with her dating other men, wearing her best lingere and coming home the next morning ? Also, with her pursing and paying for the hotel?

Honestly - It is beyond me to understand how you could have kept her after what she did. The only way it would have been worse would be you being asked to leave for the night because they wanted to use your bed and you being home made the OM feel awkward.

But each day is an new opportunity to divorce her - file for primary custody of the children and the home - and to share with friends and family how she has cheated.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm also thinking the maybe the father of the baby did in fact sign the form - the problem is that it isn't you.


----------



## warlock07

So the infidelity part, she pretty much was prepared to cheat that day wasn't she? How did you move on from this? How did she justify the whole thing?


I am also confused by your intentions of this post. What do you hope to achieve from this?


----------



## bandit.45

He's a European. Completely different mentality on marriage over there. Polyamory is acceptable in some parts over there. They think nothing of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

Polyamory is acceptable pretty much everywhere in the developed world - in the sense you won't get jail time for it. Still I fail to remember a place where it would be a social norm.


----------



## Shaggy

bandit.45 said:


> He's a European. Completely different mentality on marriage over there. Polyamory is acceptable in some parts over there. They think nothing of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? He to this day brings it up when talking about her AND she had to lie to him to go out on her night of cheating.

So it doesn't sound at all like cheating was acceptable. 

--

I also don't believe that it's possible she got pregnant by him the way he describes. Especiallly her comment about being preg already. That sounds like she was knocked up by another guy, thought at the time she'd set her husband up to be able to think he was possibly the father.

Then the lover doesn't want her + the baby - so she gets the abortion so she can keep the lover.


----------



## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> He's a European. Completely different mentality on marriage over there. Polyamory is acceptable in some parts over there. They think nothing of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if that is the case why is he posting here? It certainly sounds like he is accepting of her behavior. He is affectionate toward her. He is willing to stay married to someone who blatantly cheats and probably even got pregnant by one of her paramours. So apparently he is happy enough with the status quo that he's not willing to do anything about it. All I can say is good luck and I hope he is happy with no sex and a disrespectful s!ut wife.


----------



## bandit.45

My sister in law's husband is Italian American. He has family in Rome and Sicily and from what he tells me, several of his uncles and cousins have mistresses and lovers on the side while being happily married to their spouses. The spouses know and as long as the affairs are kept low key and out of sight, they tolerate it. Not saying this is the norm, but it does exist in some places.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CandieGirl

Anything going on with this yet? Made it to page 3, and had to give up...


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> So what you are saying is that you are incredibly pissed off. So pissed off that you are considering suing the doctor that performed the abortion. So pissed off that you admittedly would want to divorce your wife. So pissed off that you can't think straight sometimes. So pissed off that you needed to come to TAM to vent and ask for advice.
> 
> But...
> 
> You and your wife are affectionate toward each other and it's not fake???!!!
> 
> Buddy, there are some serious holes in your story. Or you are an incredible actor and consummate rug sweeper.



I used the wrong word I should'nt say affectionate, careing is more appropriate. Alot are lost in translation. What I meant was; We are really carefull in front of our children even though I shred her into pieces behind doors and she cries herself into sleep.

I haven't said all yet. It seems like holes in my story and people are eager to fill those holes by themselves. Then it turns to a patch work and it does' nt hold water.

Would it make more sense if I 'd said we were seperated immediately after her ONS 18 years ago? That's what was happened actually and I am coming to there. 

I'm sorry if my pace is to slow and irritates you. But this is my story and my way of telling it.


----------



## 5stringpicker

SweetAndSour said:


> Which part do you think that I am making up ?


I was just hoping for the best.


----------



## Beowulf

SweetAndSour said:


> I used the wrong word I should'nt say affectionate, careing is more appropriate. Alot are lost in translation. What I meant was; We are really carefull in front of our children even though I shred her into pieces behind doors and she cries herself into sleep.
> 
> I haven't said all yet. It seems like holes in my story and people are eager to fill those holes by themselves. Then it turns to a patch work and it does' nt hold water.
> 
> Would it make more sense if I 'd said we were seperated immediately after her ONS 18 years ago? That's what was happened actually and I am coming to there.
> 
> I'm sorry if my pace is to slow and irritates you. But this is my story and my way of telling it.


I'm not irritated at all. I just don't understand what you are hoping to accomplish here if you will not consider divorce as an option. If she knows she can do whatever she wants and you won't leave what is her incentive to stop?


----------



## Entropy3000

SweetAndSour said:


> We were married for 1.5 years when she had her first affair.
> 
> We both were talking about not doing a good job as husband and wife, either of us, and considering to consider divorce. It was mostly a talk we engage sometimes after the problems we had during our (yet) short marrige but other than that we were living in the same house, cooking, eating good food, watching a movie with wine or beer and going to bed together, doing almost everything together at the time. Life was easy, no kids, no health problems, we were financially good. We were working on our second college degrees. We were mostly enjoying what we have than despiseing it.
> 
> Frequency of sex was once a week then. For a 23 years old woman and 28 year old man I call it a sexless marriage.
> 
> It was a friday or saturday night. A male friend of my wife showed up around 09:00 pm. I saw him once before and she talked to him twice before I guess. He was more of a new acquitance then a friend to her.
> 
> He had asked my wife early that day that if she (and I, for not being too forward I guess) would like to join him and his friends to go to a club/disco that night. She said OK and it didn't seem too far off to me since we were in a college environment and partying/socializing was a good part of it.
> 
> I didn't want to join in that group because I was too busy with my work around that time. And they left after last time she asked me to go with them.
> 
> After about 02:00 am that night I started getting nervous. She wasn't back, I didn't know the guy well and any one in that group of people. I knew that, that club was closing at 02:00 am. It was a time before we had cell phones.
> 
> All I could do is to find his phone (he was living with his family) from the directory and talk to his mom very early in the morning.
> 
> 
> She came back around 07:00 am next morning. She hugged me and started crying. She said she had sex with him.
> 
> I was'nt ready for that even after it was so appearent.
> 
> It turned out, there was not a group of people, just my wife and him and the friend of his to give them a ride to the club.
> 
> I guess even the guy was'nt expecting to score so quick, he didn't made any plans for a **** place. My wife payed for the no tell motel, I guess she dragged him there.
> 
> Seeing her taking off her fancy lingerie, which she only wears for a special occasion, getting ready to get in our bad and crying at the same time....... That was 18 years ago...... Time doesn't heal you if you are on the wrong medicine.....


So you really could have started here. Anything in your marriage that had ocurred after this was based on this episode. This may or may not have been her first time cuckolding you.


----------



## Entropy3000

Beowulf said:


> Well if that is the case why is he posting here? It certainly sounds like he is accepting of her behavior. He is affectionate toward her. He is willing to stay married to someone who blatantly cheats and probably even got pregnant by one of her paramours. So apparently he is happy enough with the status quo that he's not willing to do anything about it. All I can say is good luck and I hope he is happy with no sex and a disrespectful s!ut wife.


Maybe just entertainment value. Playing with the TAM folks. Maybe not.


----------



## Goldmember357

Okay i would not be so inclined to think she Cheated if it was not for the fact that 

1) she cheated on you before and had an affair before as you said

2) she has lied before

3) you accepted that it was okay for someone to cheat and have an affair and moved on.

Oh and you lived in a practically sexless marriage and than she said "heck i am probably already" pregnant.

^ that screams to me she had an affair got pregnant by another man found out about it than said "heck i am probably already pregnant" to make you think you got or will get her pregnant. Than all of a sudden she is pregnant. Her not telling you about the abortion till right after is likely do to her guilt and being unable to live with the fact its not your child.


^^^ this is just my take its very sad indeed corruption and the devil's poison has infected her but it can only infect you if you have that in you. I wish you best of luck and hope this is not the case but it all sounds very fishy.. I would not have assumed she had an affair until you mentioned all of that. At first i was just going to tell you that while i can understand you are sad it is her choice to get rid of the fetus and its not technically living until its born. I can understand lack of trust and all is now affected.


----------



## Goldmember357

Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe just entertainment value. Playing with the TAM folks. Maybe not.


yeah after reading around i think that is the case. I think that is the case honestly with a lot of stories on here obviously not most but i think a lot are honestly to troll as they have far far to many holes and there seems to be no logic at all ever used by the TS generally. 

I will quit replying because i think its an obvious troll post.


----------



## Entropy3000

I think he mentioned her "first" affair. More to the story still coming.


----------



## warlock07

I think people are jumping to conclusions too fast here. Let him finish the story here..


----------



## 5stringpicker

I think this guy ought to get into wife sharing. At least he'd be part of her, what seems to be, an active sex life.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> I think people are jumping to conclusions too fast here. Let him finish the story here..


I'm afraid its going to take 18 years to get off the dime.:rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

warlock07 said:


> I think people are jumping to conclusions too fast here. Let him finish the story here..


We are just keeping the thread going while they decide what amount of trickle story to provide.

I think there is a surprise middle area. They covered the recent stuff. Then we had a flashback to affair #1.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> I'm not irritated at all. I just don't understand what you are hoping to accomplish here if you will not consider divorce as an option. *If she knows she can do whatever she wants and you won't leave what is her incentive to stop?*


Bold part is a hole filling in your part which is far from truth in my opinion. What to stop ? I really don't think an affair is going on right now. So there is nothing to stop. She is in a really tight spot now, she can barely breath.

Compareing to some other posters, Beowulf, I cannot say that you are taking it totally wrong. Some people are already far off with their assumptions, my mistake I guess, I am not a good communicator.

And divorce is still an option which I don't wanna explore for the kids well being. She knows that I am here only for the kids for time being, not for being with her, and she is taking a really hard time with that.


----------



## Beowulf

What to stop? Putting aside the many and massive red flags that scream infidelity, by your own words she has walked all over you, withheld sex, had an abortion without your consent and made selfish decisions that effectively emasculate you as a man and a husband. How about stopping that?


----------



## SweetAndSour

I had to put a warning at the beginnig;

"Please don't reply until I finished my story"

I was planning to finish my background story in a few (long) posts and wanted to hear what other people thinks where am I and where can I go from here.

Then of course reply's started coming and a lot of assumptions started flying before the whole story is known. I welcome your replies but I feel sorry to make you uncomfortable somehow. Unfortunately, I am loosing the base for a productive input from you even after I finish my story, that upsets me some.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> What to stop? Putting aside the many and massive red flags that scream infidelity, by your own words she has walked all over you, withheld sex, had an abortion without your consent and made selfish decisions that effectively emasculate you as a man and a husband. How about stopping that?


You are a night owl if you are in states. 

Many has been stopped, our marriage is hanging on a shoe lace, you'll see when I come to where we are now yet.....God...... the length, the detail of my story....... I started boring myself.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Entropy3000 said:


> So you really could have started here. *Anything in your marriage that had ocurred after this was based on this episode. *This may or may not have been her first time cuckolding you.


Nop,

It was her first infidelity but last draw to set us apart at least for a while then. I was very sad but also kind a happy that it happend actually. I was free the next day.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Goldmember357 said:


> Okay i would not be so inclined to think she Cheated if it was not for the fact that
> 
> 1) she cheated on you before and had an affair before as you said
> 
> 2) she has lied before
> 
> 3) you accepted that it was okay for someone to cheat and have an affair and moved on.
> 
> Oh and you lived in a practically sexless marriage and than she said "heck i am probably already" pregnant.
> 
> ^ that screams to me she had an affair got pregnant by another man found out about it than said "heck i am probably already pregnant" to make you think you got or will get her pregnant. Than all of a sudden she is pregnant. Her not telling you about the abortion till right after is likely do to her guilt and being unable to live with the fact its not your child.
> 
> 
> ^^^ this is just my take its very sad indeed corruption and the devil's poison has infected her but it can only infect you if you have that in you. I wish you best of luck and hope this is not the case but it all sounds very fishy.. I would not have assumed she had an affair until you mentioned all of that. At first i was just going to tell you that while i can understand you are sad it is her choice to get rid of the fetus and its not technically living until its born. I can understand lack of trust and all is now affected.


1. Yes

2. Unlike your assumption, she has been brutally honest. She trickled truth, didn't wanna talk, but she didn't lie much all those years. Lately though, our relationship can't handle the truth. So some lies are expected. 

3.It is your assumption.

About the latest pregnancy; If you read again you can see that time line corresponds to the conclusion that it was probably my child. Yes we couldn't concieve even when we intentionally tried at our late years, but we had an unintentional pregnancy when we were younger and we recently had our second child in natural ways. It takes just one sperm, I didn't send the millions in but I sent alot more than one I guess. 

More importantly, she could have the abortion in secret very easely. I wouldn't hear/know anything. Instead she started talking about missing her period, every morning, again, for weeks. When she sad "heck i am probably already pregnant" we both already knew that she was missing her period for sometime. I thought I wrote it like that. 

Thanks for your best wishes, though,I appreciate it.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> My sister in law's husband is Italian American. He has family in Rome and Sicily and from what he tells me, several of his uncles and cousins have mistresses and lovers on the side while being happily married to their spouses. The spouses know and as long as the affairs are kept low key and out of sight, they tolerate it. Not saying this is the norm, but it does exist in some places.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Men are wired for the last couple of million years as being really pissed off when their mate is banged by another dude. There is not a cultural difference about that.

The thing you mentioned above is not europian it is just archaic.

Those man have no wives as we now. They just posses some peace of ass they call wife which they bang them when they are young and new, can bear their children and bang them on occasion when wife is old but husband is really drunk. And their wives are married to pigs which they call husband. I feel sorry for those women who are forced to accept this cultural s***.


----------



## Beowulf

SweetAndSour said:


> I had to put a warning at the beginnig;
> 
> "Please don't reply until I finished my story"
> 
> I was planning to finish my background story in a few (long) posts and wanted to hear what other people thinks where am I and where can I go from here.
> 
> Then of course reply's started coming and a lot of assumptions started flying before the whole story is known. I welcome your replies but I feel sorry to make you uncomfortable somehow. Unfortunately, I am loosing the base for a productive input from you even after I finish my story, that upsets me some.


Well, I'm sorry to be blunt but this is an interactive board. If you want to write your novel I think you should find a literary critic to read it. I didn't accept trickle truth from my wife and I'm certainly not going to accept it now on TAM. Good luck with your situation whatever it is since I haven't been able to determine why you are in fact here. I'm out.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> Well, I'm sorry to be blunt but this is an interactive board. If you want to write your novel I think you should find a literary critic to read it. I didn't accept trickle truth from my wife and I'm certainly not going to accept it now on TAM. Good luck with your situation whatever it is since I haven't been able to determine why you are in fact here. I'm out.



If putting words in my mouth and describing my life back to me by looking at my five or ten posts is interaction to you,........ well..... it is not really iteraction.

I am at the end my wit for taking any s*** from anybody like you are. Still I prefer to keep my cool as much as I can.

Why I fell like catering to all TAM people from my pocket.

Beowulf I apreciate your sincerity, I wish you would mine.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm calling troll here. Lots of time to post and stir up drama , but no time to post the actual facts.

Very typical troll actions. 

bye bye


----------



## SweetAndSour

This is such a subject that cemented in our core which cultural difference and language barrier would'nt be much of an issue I thoutgh.

Thinking in english, trying to explain something to you, in north american people's norms takes a good 40-60 points from my IQ. Then if I hit the border of an idiot, then sorry I am not smarter.

I am out too.

Edit:

I was not panicking like I think my wife f***ed her coworker. 

Placeing a VAR, keylogger, fog, 180....... I am far from those...... still, I found myself at TAM. If that is all that TAM can offer, I guess I am hopless here.


----------



## Entropy3000

SweetAndSour said:


> I had to put a warning at the beginnig;
> 
> "Please don't reply until I finished my story"
> 
> I was planning to finish my background story in a few (long) posts and wanted to hear what other people thinks where am I and where can I go from here.
> 
> Then of course reply's started coming and a lot of assumptions started flying before the whole story is known. I welcome your replies but I feel sorry to make you uncomfortable somehow. Unfortunately, I am loosing the base for a productive input from you even after I finish my story, that upsets me some.


If you actually post something you are going to get responses.

How will folks know when you are done posting?

You could have written this out in a text editor word or even emailed this to youself. Then cut and paste in a few minutes.

What chapter are we on now?


----------



## Entropy3000

SweetAndSour said:


> Nop,
> 
> It was her first infidelity but last draw to set us apart at least for a while then. I was very sad but also kind a happy that it happend actually. I was free the next day.


So you divorced her and let her go. Sometime later you guys got married again? Not a good idea.

My point is that just this earlier activity sad, cease and desist. Her getting away with this infidelity was the beginning of what you have gotten.

That is my point. You had an early warning but have hung on with this infidelity and a sexless marriage. She does not find you attractive as a sexual partner. You have not explained why you would put yourself through this.

How about a synopsis. How many affairs has she had? How many have you had? Did you guys ever go into an alternative lifestyle? Just trying to help you spit it out buddy.


----------



## SweetAndSour

I decided to come back and finish my story here instead being asked and giving the bits and pieces in different threads.

I'll make a one last long post from the beginning, fell free to jump over the lines and paragraphs.

We were together for 1.5-2 years before marriage. Things were great and we were strong.

After marriage, she became a different person. The first year of marriage was like a movie part took place in an asylum. She was the patient and I was the care giver, trying to stop that patient from hurting herself. Her suicide attempt is included during the first three month.

Being a realy loyal and hapy inside person myself, I still tried to enjoy life. We had good times too. towards the end of the first year things calm downed a little. I bowed down to many of her needs and requirements. 

I put here to a different place. She was not my mate anymore she was my disturbed teenager girl that I cared day to day. I was looking for a way out too. We were talking about divorce, things didn't seem to get any better.

She had here first affair, an extended ONS under these circumstances. I was surprised, hurt but also relieved. The first week after the affair she moved out to her new tiny apartment. I was still helping her for the move, buying things for her new life and giving her ride when she needed. She continued banging her new boyfriend, it was none of my business but I had sex with her once during that time which I regret to this day. She stopped seeing the OM in less then a month.

I took her back in less than two months. She couldn'nt have survived by herself for long in that condition. She was a full time student with a low wage part time job. I was a full time student too. Paying for two full time students and running two households at the same time was beyond my abilities. I didn't want here to f*** her life there and dissapeare in to oblivion. That was the noble part of me. And the weak part of me was missing her to much despite of what she was bringing to my life. 

We lived a much calmer life for the next 4-5 years. She grew in me again. We moved to another city. She started to a new and a very good job. 

In one and a half month in that job, she banged her coworker. According to here, "it was not important, it was not about sex" and most importantly she had no idea or any concern about where we two go or should go from there. 

This time I was devistated, I was as needy, angry, clingy, apolegetic, and angry again, I was all over the place. It continued for five months. During that five months I was made to believe that PA stopped, it wasn't. She was't hiding that EA was there, she was getting more distant from me but also taking physical care of me especially during my surgery that time. She was having occasional sex with me too. She left me after five months for him. 

And she came back one week later. During that week I was out of this world. I was emailing her about how I miss her, everyday (I was writing short then, just few sentences). OM was very broken, she was broken and I was worst than a dead rotten body but I was kind a happy to have her back. 

We didn't take the steps now we read here at TAM. We lived for the next two years with the expectation for things getting better. She was in deep depression. Altough we cared for each other, otherwise having good time, there was no sex, no romance (hell no).

It lasted for two years. I had an opportunity in another country, I left. I left her too. We were separeted for another year. But after one month of separation we decided to get back together. She was out of her mind. 

It's been eleven years after our last getting back together. During that time, she was very apolegetic about her past mistakes. We had two kids, She worked very hard, she has been the main bread winner as my business endeavours didn't end up as I hoped. she has been a good wife and mother in many respects, sex part lacked though. 

During that time I was like touched by a magic wand. I was over her past affairs completely. months may be years passed without me remembering anything about them.

Five months ago she had the abortion which I detailed in length before. I wanted the baby. After that everything bad is back and getting worst. In our recent arguments I had these statements from her;

-Famous "ILYBIANILWY".
-"I don't like/desire sex" (I add "with you" to the end) 

I told her that "we have alot of baggage from our past, I put the bad things, your affairs in a jar and closed the lid, they are like worms in a can trying to get out. You should help me to keep the lid closed but you don't"

Guess what she said, She said that "I have a jar too" I asked her what is in your jar ? After much pressure she said; "John" (John is her last affair partner from 13 years ago). Then I said OK nothing more is needed. Go to internet, find him. She said "no it's just a fantasy I don't think that john wants to be with me and I am not sure if I ever want to be with him again" 

Few weeks later, when I am digging in to her computer, I found that she was looking for plane tickets for john to come to our city. I confronted her and she started crying and said "I was just relieving myself during a hard work day for couple of minutes, plus didn't you said go look for him ?" She was right on the part that she was not really trying to buy tickets, she just checked the prices for a very short while, I can see that from the log. I of course said "How is that relieve you ?"

Now it is downing on her that she is in deep **** and she is pulling me and our kids with her. Now she is throwing herself under my feet in every way, She tries to have sex with me like rabbits in every possibility. She is again in depression, in deep with selfworth problems. She tells me that she is IN love with me couple of times a day. She regrets everything and wants to stay with me.

I tell her I still care for her but I am ONLY with her for the kids well being. And She constantly gets my version of ILYBIANILWY which is; I DON'T LIKE YOU AND I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU. I don't like you part hits her most.

EDIT:

I said she is trying to have sex with me like rabbits. It was a little wrong use of language.

Yes she tries to initiate sex much more than before. It is not like she is giving sex to coverup something. She tries to romance me, she is trying to get intimate with me in all levels. 

She bought me flowers for valentines day. She arranged "US" time in our new home without kids around. We just have a couch there and she bought candless too. I feel gay writing this, receiving flowers was weird.

It is important to note that that she is trying to have a fulfilling, satisfying relationship with me.

EDİT after 6 years : when I say;
*
She could'nt have survived by herself for long in that condition. She was a full time student with a low wage part time job.*

I was not clear what her survival means.

I better mention that we both were international students in US with student visas which let her only let her work at her college for 20 hours a week, for a minimum wage. İf I didn't support her, She had to quit school and leave the country. I did not want that happen.


----------



## warlock07

Kinda rushed, I can understand. 

So you will never be sure about the abortion I guess. How were you sure that John never visited the city or you don't just give a f*ck about it now?


----------



## Shaggy

Wow, you are a dedicated doormat arent you?

She cheats on you, repeatedly, leaves you and you keep paying her bills and taking her back,

I doubt she has any respect for you at all. She certainly has no love and doesn't seem to have ever had any.

Are you sure the kids are yours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

She's batsh*t crazy. WTF? Why are you hanging on to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

> I DON'T LIKE YOU AND I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU.


I like this part

:smthumbup:

So you totally moved on?


----------



## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> Kinda rushed, I can understand.
> 
> So you will never be sure about the abortion I guess. How were you sure that John never visited the city or you don't just give a f*ck about it now?



I think john is gone long ago.

She put the john in a jar for years without looking into it until our recent fall down and my recounting of our past has started again. Otherwise she would let me know. She is different, she would'nt hide.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> Wow, you are a dedicated doormat arent you?
> 
> She cheats on you, repeatedly, leaves you and you keep paying her bills and taking her back,
> 
> I doubt she has any respect for you at all. She certainly has no love and doesn't seem to have ever had any.
> 
> Are you sure the kids are yours?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am worst than a doormat.

Hard to believe but I am the love of her life. I am her platonic love that she can not have after all the wrong things she did. 

During the roughly first half of our marriage, I payed the bills and she helped. For the second half she has been paying all of the bills. Overall, she put more money to us than I did. Now she is in a very good state when it comes to her carrier. 

When we met she was a college student. For the first half of our marrige, I changed who she was. She was in a suicide mission with her life. Under my control (yes I was controlling in a good way), She (I) changed her field of study. She had much more than a college degree, academically. Then I literally placed her into her first job. When thirty years old, she had the oportunity of having the dilemma of thinking about retiring next year as a rich person or working for another year and retiring even richer. She immensly owned and enjoyed all I gave to her. She always acknowledged my input, except when gas lighting time came, yes I was painted as controlling too.

None of us are in this for each others money, we can both make good money on our own.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> She's batsh*t crazy. WTF? Why are you hanging on to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she is crazy.

Kids are my main concern now, but all along.....we are weak and stupid. Why didn't you leave your wife when you first caught her ? I am not really asking, merely answering your question.


----------



## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> I like this part
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> So you totally moved on?


Not totaly, in fact barely. We are in the process of a change. There is no way of mending the things which are broken, I can not take her back as my mate, which ever it means. I am all alone now on, even if I die in her arms years later.

I am not a believer of any type of reconciliation now and not just for us. I believed that reconciliation after an affair was possible, we tried it in the past, could we do it in a better manner, yes, we skipped many necessery steps. Either way it doesn't worth it.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Is anybody familiar with the French movie Betty Blue ?

My wife bears many similarities with her. She is (wife) borderline. She is very passionate when you are at her white side and she is a demon if you are on here black side. Some how she kept me at her white side even when she is having her affairs. She is also very unique, atractive, womenly, giving if you catch her at her good moments. 



During our times before our marriage. She was such a keeper. She was deeply madly in love with me. Would die for me. Once, I was going to take a verbal exam at a college where I was applying for graduate studies in an engineering field. She went there without my knowledge, posed as an engineering graduate, who is going to apply for herself and took a long briefing with one of the professors about how is that verbal exam going to be. She had took very detailed notes of the conversation for me . She had nothing to do with engineering let alone being graduate of anything at the time.

She always thought I was too good for her. She never felt contend with me. It was just cute of her for me at the begining. But later, her feeling of inadequicy played a big role. As her demons started tingling her mind, as she started destroying both our lives, I let my dissatisfaction known. It made it harder for her to stay on her sane side. Then she became open to affairs and other mistakes she made just to have a little relief.

I always felt that I was dealing with a sick person in my family which made me stay for so long.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Just do 180.
Let her go.
Support your kids and raise them well.

You will avoid hurting yourself...

Man up. Now. Atleast now.


----------



## Beowulf

I already stated my opinion. You need to let her go.


----------



## Chaparral

I am really glad you revealed the rest of your story. If it is not too much to ask, why did it take you so long? As a matter of fact, after reading this, it looks like you wandered a bit.

You posted this in the infidelity section. What kind of advice are you looking for here? Do you want to stay married to your wife? What does your wife want?

I think you should buy at least two books to read that may help you a lot. "His Needs Her Needs" and "Married Man Sex Life". These books give us a lot of insite into relationships, particularly because men and women have thought processes that are totally different. Good luck, this is a great place to get other people's advice and opinions. Some you will just have to overlook for obvious reasons.


----------



## SweetAndSour

AngryandUsed, Beowulf,

If she wanted to go and put a little logic, action plan behind it, I would let her go.

During about first month after abortion, she said "I am leaving" in tears one morning and left for work, I know her, it was just a hollow statement. After she is back, I asked, how did she come up with that. I didn't mean it is not appropriate. I just wanted to know how she came to that and what her plans were. I could have agreed. 

She answered "I thougt you wanted it". 

For the record I said "No I didn't say that, I just said divorce is a very viable option and can happen"

And she said "Ohh, OK" She didn't leave.

I have been drinking almost every day after our arguments started. About four or five times, I became verbally hard on her about her mistakes and how it is hard to make things any better after all. I am not going to explain for too long about my drinking and abusing my wife, there has never been such a thing, ever. On the last episode, I told her to "**** off of my life" she was crying already, she asked me "do you really want me to do that ?" I said yes. She packed and left with kids to her parents home. Kids didn't see us arguing but they were sleeping and it was late. My 4 year old son picked some signals and started crying on the way. It was the worst thing I did in my life. Next morning, I called her back and she was back with kids. This is when I realised that if it is going to be like that staying together wasn't going to be good for kids. After that I put everything on hold. 


I don't want to do anything drastic with two young kids in the picture. First, I want to know what can I do, then I want to understand and believe what she can do. After we decide that the seperation is the option to go, we need to talk to our son's child psychologist and only then, act on our decision.

I need to be very carefull for my kids.


----------



## bandit.45

SweetAndSour said:


> Yes she is crazy.
> 
> Kids are my main concern now, but all along.....we are weak and stupid. Why didn't you leave your wife when you first caught her ? I am not really asking, merely answering your question.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

SweetAndSour said:


> Yes she is crazy.
> 
> Kids are my main concern now, but all along.....we are weak and stupid. Why didn't you leave your wife when you first caught her ? I am not really asking, merely answering your question.


Because I was young and ignorant and did not think I could do better. Sad huh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

chapparal said:


> I am really glad you revealed the rest of your story. If it is not too much to ask, why did it take you so long? As a matter of fact, after reading this, it looks like you wandered a bit.
> 
> You posted this in the infidelity section. What kind of advice are you looking for here? Do you want to stay married to your wife? What does your wife want?
> 
> I think you should buy at least two books to read that may help you a lot. "His Needs Her Needs" and "Married Man Sex Life". These books give us a lot of insite into relationships, particularly because men and women have thought processes that are totally different. Good luck, this is a great place to get other people's advice and opinions. Some you will just have to overlook for obvious reasons.



She wants to stay with me, I don't know how but I need to find a resolution.

I am not looking for a major advice from TAM like divorce or stay. I will be asking smaller questions about handling things which related to infidelity because I need to exhaust every possibility to push myself to seperation or I may see that staying together is possible. Like every other poster I had to give my background story for better communication (and for its therapetic value). I am sorry It took me to write a novel. I will put a line in to my first post to direct new comers to my recent single post for a shorter version.

I know what I want, I don't want to hurt my kids, I don't want to be hurt anymore and I want my wife to find some piece of mind. 

Yes I wandered a lot. But for the last about eleven years, after our last reuniting, things were not that bad. We were really good friends, spending our time in different countries, sharing the same experiences together for so long draw us closer. Yes sex was lacking ,sometimes for months, but I was hearing that when people are married for too long that was expected and she was on prozac on and on and it was taking its toll, I thought.

After the abortion, 5 months ago, I started questioning everything about our relationship. Now I am very angry, pissed off and hopeless. This is where my title comes from.

I am very upset about her past two affairs. Her last affair was thirteen years ago but now I feel like it happend yesterday. Thats why I am posting to CWI.

I am reading as much as I can, thanks for the leads.


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## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> Because I was young and ignorant and did not think I could do better. Sad huh?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


O'Brother.....


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## warlock07

So the only way to keep her is by manipulating her and by making her feel insecure ? Once she starts feeling secure in the relationship, she tries to cheat on you?


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## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> So the only way to keep her is by manipulating her and by making her feel insecure ? Once she starts feeling secure in the relationship, she tries to cheat on you?


No... Just the opposite on all counts.

Why would I want her to fell insecure while we have been suffering from the results of her personality weaknesses all along ?

When she cheated, she was very insecure about our relationship and herself. 

I am sory if I gave the wrong impression. I get the manipulative part though.


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## Chaparral

I don't think you were able to handle her affairs in a manner that let you heal. There have been a couple of posters here now that did the same thing and are now trying to come to grips with the ongoing pain. At least one got very bad advise from a marriage counselor.

One thing you need is an Individual councelor that has a lot of experience with infidelity and post traumatic stress syndrome. Adultery is just as traumatic as battlefield experience and can be worse than losing a spouse to death.

Assuming your wife has overcome most of her issues, I'm going to post the wayward spouse instructions for you and her to read together. It may not be to late if you both want to get along again.

Get the the type of counselor I suggested. The abortion is traumatic to top everything. You are going to have to forgive her at some point, however, to move on. 

Good luck and prayers for your family

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
Chap


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## SweetAndSour

chapparal said:


> I don't think you were able to handle her affairs in a manner that let you heal. There have been a couple of posters here now that did the same thing and are now trying to come to grips with the ongoing pain. At least one got very bad advise from a marriage counselor.
> 
> One thing you need is an Individual councelor that has a lot of experience with infidelity and post traumatic stress syndrome. Adultery is just as traumatic as battlefield experience and can be worse than losing a spouse to death.
> 
> Assuming your wife has overcome most of her issues, I'm going to post the wayward spouse instructions for you and her to read together. It may not be to late if you both want to get along again.
> 
> Get the the type of counselor I suggested. The abortion is traumatic to top everything. You are going to have to forgive her at some point, however, to move on.
> 
> Good luck and prayers for your family
> 
> Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.
> 
> 
> Chap


We did not handle her affairs in a manner that let us and our marriage to heal. I wish we had the TAM then.

I had my psychiatrist because I was referred to one after I hospitalized with panic attack and my wife found her psychologist in a hurry after our first ugly conversation on phone after abortion. 

Mine listened to me like watching a soap opera and actually tried to help but I was out of her league. She put me on effexor and xanax. I had to give up on her and the pills after two months.

My wife was detailing me her session with her psychologist, in length. I went to her for a session to let her help better to my wife. After 6 or 7 sessions she (Psych) started signalling to my wife that they were coming to the end of my wife's treatment but she didn't asked or listened to anything about my wifes childhood yet. My wife had a really bad childhood with abusive parents.

I am not sure if we can find proper councelors in our city with similar cultural background to us. I'd really like to find some one with post traumatic stress syndrome expertise related to infidelity. 

And adding to all that, we had really good times financely but now, we owe much more than we have. So we can not spend much on counceling and our insurance doesn't cover it. 

I read the "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse" manual here before. My wife has been to TAM and read the Almostrecovered's story in full. Thats all she read and I don't think that she came back again. 

I don't want to force her. I wish she would come here, read others experiences and tell her story. I think she will be here when she is ready.

Thanks Chapparal.


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## gpa

Hey S&S. I just read your last comment and took a note in respect with your wife’s abusive parents. Well I’m not a psychiatrist myself but I had a specialization in my early university career with the long talked and discussed subject of the criminal behavior. And by this I mean the extended search and analysis of the various factors and reasons that a lot of times subconsciously lead a person to the crime.
Guess what? Abusive parents are a major factor for a lot of criminal behaviors. Of course infidelity isn’t a crime anymore (it was actually a crime in Greece until late 70s), but sometimes is a factor for a crime. Any way in some cases especially with an abusive father there are results indicating that women may be vulnerable to infidelity under certain triggers. Imagine a little girl with an abusive father who however presents differentiations on behavior (sometimes good and loved, sometimes abusive). Imagine the desperation the little child feels and the agony when the said father is at his dark days attacking (with a lot of variations of abuse) her. Imagine also the same girl when the father is at his best as a loving and sweet parent. Think how relieved the little girl feels but at the same time try to imagine the agony of the same girl as to when will be the next time that her father will be a monster again. All these emotions and feelings put a very large stamp in the subconscious and act as triggers in a lot of ways. If your wife demonstrated infidelity during the insecure periods of your relation and her father demonstrated the above mentioned behavior, then please contact asap a specialized psychiatrist (please no psychologies here) and y may find remarkable solutions.


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## SweetAndSour

gpa said:


> Hey S&S. I just read your last comment and took a note in respect with your wife’s abusive parents. Well I’m not a psychiatrist myself but I had a specialization in my early university career with the long talked and discussed subject of the criminal behavior. And by this I mean the extended search and analysis of the various factors and reasons that a lot of times subconsciously lead a person to the crime.
> Guess what? Abusive parents are a major factor for a lot of criminal behaviors. Of course infidelity isn’t a crime anymore (it was actually a crime in Greece until late 70s), but sometimes is a factor for a crime. Any way in some cases especially with an abusive father there are results indicating that women may be vulnerable to infidelity under certain triggers. Imagine a little girl with an abusive father who however presents differentiations on behavior (sometimes good and loved, sometimes abusive). Imagine the desperation the little child feels and the agony when the said father is at his dark days attacking (with a lot of variations of abuse) her. Imagine also the same girl when the father is at his best as a loving and sweet parent. Think how relieved the little girl feels but at the same time try to imagine the agony of the same girl as to when will be the next time that her father will be a monster again. All these emotions and feelings put a very large stamp in the subconscious and act as triggers in a lot of ways. If your wife demonstrated infidelity during the insecure periods of your relation and her father demonstrated the above mentioned behavior, then please contact asap a specialized psychiatrist (please no psychologies here) and y may find remarkable solutions.


Hey gpa, you are on the right track.

I get what you say, you rang alot of bells. Being a person who likes to be close and wants to know everything about his partner in life, I was interested about everything about her life my wife told me about everything she memorize. We spent half our lives together, sometimes I asked, sometimes she remembered something. I guess I know everything that she memorize beginning from early childhood to the day we met. 

Her resentment about her dad and mom was remarkable. I used to dig into psychology a bit myself when I was a young flake, intellectual cafe goer, so I knew that, that was something to be regarded as important for a persons psyche.

During the middle of her last affair, at one of our conversations, I remember myself telling her "*please, stop, I am not your father*" She was coming on to me, rewriting our story as if she was not with me but with her father during our years together. The phrases she used against me was same as she was describing her father.

We were sitting on a meal in a restaurant, I was not really eating, I was melting away in my skin, was hardly holding my tears back. She was F**king her lover regularly at the time and gaslighting me, projecting her grudge to her father on me on that table, I was the abuser and she was the abused and now freed poor girl........All I could say was "please, stop, I am not your father". Then I left for my cave to cry and crush, and she went back to work, or she went to her lover, I don't know. 

She had a really though childhood but I am also a believer of "good genes makes good people". I know her parents for years, They are very strict and demanding people, she is right, but they are also good people. Their demanding ways, cold attitude was hard for her for sure, but they were always there for their children, They tried to raise them as good and strong individuals. I had many disturbed and many healthy friends. Compared to their families, and how my friends ended up, my wife must have some bad genes too. Her parents' influence alone are not enough explanation for her disturbed personality today.


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## warlock07

> We were sitting on a meal in a restaurant, I was not really eating, I was melting away in my skin, was hardly holding my tears back. She was F**king her lover regularly at the time and gaslighting me, projecting her grudge to her father on me on that table, I was the abuser and she was the abused and now freed poor girl........All I could say was "please, stop, I am not your father". Then I left for my cave to cry and crush, and she went back to work, or she went to her lover, I don't know.


Wow that is brutal. Why do people keep going back to such relationships?


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## Fvstringpicker

warlock07;634161 Why do people keep going back to such relationships?[/QUOTE said:


> Because some people's gratification and even sense of being depends on their suffering pain and humiliation. It may not be what ya'll want to hear, but its reality.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Your wife was straying through out your marriage, you forgives her all the time without her facing any consequences. She strayed when ever she wanted to do, she didn't even feel that she owe you an explanation for her abortion. 
You always found new excuses for her straying and abandoning you. It was her childhood, her insecurities, Now your children. we know you wish for more excuses for forgiving her.


But i would like to ask you when you are going to feel ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?


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## SweetAndSour

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Your wife was straying through out your marriage, you forgives her all the time without her facing any consequences. She strayed when ever she wanted to do, she didn't even feel that she owe you an explanation for her abortion.
> You always found new excuses for her straying and abandoning you. It was her childhood, her insecurities, Now your children. we know you wish for more excuses for forgiving her.
> 
> 
> But i would like to ask you when you are going to feel ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?


I am looking for excuses to leave her. I am different now.

Actually I don't need excuses. I had enough to know that she is a F***.

Kids, kids, kids.

May be I should move to parenting topic.


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## SweetAndSour

Beowulf said:


> I already stated my opinion. You need to let her go.


Well she is sticking now.


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## bandit.45

You've got a toxic, sick woman on your hands. 

Problem is, you have endured it for so long she has probably changed you for the worse. It is going to be hard for you to have any kind of meaningful relationship in the future due to the damage she has done to you. 

Divorce her and quit using the kids as an excuse. This farce of a marriage your in is not a healthy environment for them to grow up in.


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## SweetAndSour

English is not my native language. My feelings and my views are all over the place, my head is not right, right now. I write things that they blur my story more than they explain. Here is another correction.

I said she is trying to have sex with me like rabbits. It was a little wrong use of language.

Yes she tries to initiate sex much more than before. It is not like she is giving sex to coverup something. She tries to romance me, she is trying to get intimate with me in all levels. She does it for herself too, I can feel it.

She bought me flowers for valentines day. She arranged "Us" time in our new home without kids around. We just have a couch there and she bought candless too. I feel gay writing this, receiving flowers was weird.

It is important to note that that she is trying to have a fulfilling, satisfying relationship with me.


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## bandit.45

SweetAndSour said:


> She bought me flowers for valentines day. She arranged "Us" time in our new home without kids around. We just have a couch there and she bought candless too. I feel gay writing this, receiving flowers was weird.


You feel gay about recieving flowers, yet in the past you have all but allowed your wife to have sex with other men.

Do you even comprehend how sick this all is?


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## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> You've got a toxic, sick woman on your hands.
> 
> Problem is, you have endured it for so long she has probably changed you for the worse. It is going to be hard for you to have any kind of meaningful relationship in the future due to the damage she has done to you.
> 
> Divorce her and quit using the kids as an excuse. This farce of a marriage your in is not a healthy environment for them to grow up in.


I am looking around and I see people who were able to manage to stay together just for kids. Kids grew up to be fine individuals. Examples I see stops me going forward with separation.

Norm here is different than the norm in US. We don't have many single parents here as there are in US. Albeit we have more disfunctional families. Societes have different norms and I want to keep my kids as closer as to the norm here. Whch is just keep your mouth shut and raise your kids for their sake.


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## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> You feel gay about recieving flowers, yet in the past you have all but allowed your wife to have sex with other men.
> 
> Do you even comprehend how sick this all is?


First, I need to understand what is wrong with me. 

I am wrong.

EDIT : I never let her to have sex with other man. I let it happen unknowingly after she lied to me. I was stupid.


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## bandit.45

It's called codependency, and it is a rampant illness among betrayed spouses. We see it alot here on TAM.

You require your wife's approval to validate your own existence. That is your problem. 

You need to get with a counselor who specializes in codependency.


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## bandit.45

SweetAndSour said:


> First, I need to understand what is wrong with me.
> 
> I am wrong.
> 
> EDIT : I never let her to have sex with other man. I let it happen unknowingly after she lied to me. I was stupid.


"I let her have sex with the OM without realising.

My wife started having sex with her coworker on a saturday night. Came back home around sunday noon and told me that she had sex with him. I was crushed and made her know that this was not acceptable, stupid and very very bad.

She went to work monday, she was going to tell the OM that what they did was not appropriate and needed to end. They had their talk at dinner in a place close to work. She called me from that place close to midnight and said, "I had a few too many drinks, I cannot come home, can I stay at his place" I didn't like it but I said YES.

I thought they were done. I didn't want to be too nosy, interfering. Most importantly, I believed her when she said they were done and she was going there to just sleep, alone.

Later I learned that they had sex that night.

How gullible I was."


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## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> "I let her have sex with the OM without realising.
> 
> My wife started having sex with her coworker on a saturday night. Came back home around sunday noon and told me that she had sex with him. I was crushed and made her know that this was not acceptable, stupid and very very bad.
> 
> She went to work monday, she was going to tell the OM that what they did was not appropriate and needed to end. They had their talk at dinner in a place close to work. She called me from that place close to midnight and said, "I had a few too many drinks, I cannot come home, can I stay at his place" I didn't like it but I said YES.
> 
> I thought they were done. I didn't want to be too nosy, interfering. Most importantly, I believed her when she said they were done and she was going there to just sleep, alone.
> 
> Later I learned that they had sex that night.
> 
> How gullible I was."


I let it happen unknowingly, call me stupid. I was much younger.

It was such an affair down for her. She was good looking with the curves on right places. Bastard was overweigth, with skin problems and bad teeth. Even his boots were sorry for him for his flat feet, and weight. You could see that when he was walking towards you, swinging side to side.

A week before my wife F***ed him, we introduced the OM to one of our female friends, without any objection from my wife. She (the friend of ours) was just dumped by her boyfriend. She needed to cheer up quick. She was a fine girl, comparable to my wife, with my wife with more attractive looks, and girlfriend being more easygoing, comforting. She deserved much better but bastard was all we had, available at the time. After meeting him, she said "come on guys, I am not that desperate". Our female friend had never considered to met him again.

I took the other man as a joke at first.

At first I thougth my disturbed girl did something without much consideration about anything again. She said initially that what they did was not that important. I almost felt sorry for the bastard for involving with her.

About for their first sex she said "it felt wright", I learned what it means much later. I was stupid, still I am.


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## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> It's called codependency, and it is a rampant illness among betrayed spouses. We see it alot here on TAM.
> 
> You require your wife's approval to validate your own existence. That is your problem.
> 
> You need to get with a counselor who specializes in codependency.


My wife's psychologist said that I have codependency issues too.

I've just dropped my councellor recently. It is hard to find the right one here.


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## warlock07

The details are just taking it from bad to worse. Where are you from SS?


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## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> The details are just taking it from bad to worse. Where are you from SS?



What is SS ? I could'nt find it.


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## warlock07

I meant SweetandSour . Was trying to save some typing


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## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> I meant SweetandSour . Was trying to save some typing


Got it. I saw it before but this time I confused.

I wish I could say where I am from for a better perspective and probably get more help coming from my locals for councellers etc.

This is one thing that I am avoiding to reveal for the sake of my anonymity.

There are some things in my story that if I give away, my wife (and I) will be easily identified.

I am trying to avoid that.


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## warlock07

Are you guys celebrities or have a very public life?


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## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> Are you guys celebrities or have a very public life?


No, I am paranoid for the most part.

My wife is one of the few pioneer women in her field in our country she is well known in her industrie. If I give just couple of leads, it would be easy to track her. Her peers are very computer and internet literate. All use google brutally. And I am sure some of them has been in TAM for their own problems.

Besides with year 2020 version of google our kids will know everything about our internet presence without much effort. I am trying to extend it to year 2030.

I am kidding and serious at the same time. (I am not much fan of smilies).


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## SweetAndSour

I had put a hold-on talking about our problems for a while until we are more able to do it because I was drinking heavily, I kicked her out to call her and the kids next day (kids shouldn't have had that), and my wife was having health problems, she had to hospitalized for a serious UT infection for a week.

Time has come. We sat to talk last weekend days after we put the kids to sleep.

Friday night, she revealed, there was one more guy that I didn't know after I presurred her saying that "It is obvious, why are you still denying", I was just fishing and I had a catch.

Saturday comes, after more pressure she spells one more guy.

Monday night, without much pressure, she came out with two more.

She had six guys that she f***ed as it stands now. All from about seventeen to fifteen years ago, But I am learning about them now. Talk about D-day starts when you learn it, not when it happend. 

There is not much left to say for me, to me.

Only good may come out from this may be the others may find some lessons from my story. 

Leave it, don't live in a lie, only bad comes out of it, later kids are added to it, they hurt and they are crippled for life too. Leave especially you are in the early years of your relationship.

Signing off......................


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## warlock07

Wow.....How much she reveals is at her mercy


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## bandit.45

Problem is S&S allowed this to go on for so long that it became the norm for his wife. Talk about sleepwalking through a marriage. My god. His wife probably has no recollection how many men she slept with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

bandit.45 said:


> Problem is S&S allowed this to go on for so long that it became the norm for his wife. Talk about sleepwalking through a marriage. My god. His wife probably has no recollection how many men she slept with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or how many she is and will still sleep with.


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## Shaggy

So are you filing for divorce and having her move out? I also lost track, did she come clean that the aborted child was another mans?


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## koolasma

The betrayal you must be feeling is heart wrenching.
I hope that two will both seek some counseling together and separately.


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## SweetAndSour

I am writing this for the record.

Last night, being a saturday night, was a designated talking night.

She started as saying that there is no more secrets left that I don't know and she is very sorry about things she had done. 

Afer saying that, in half an hour, she told me that she had two other guys she had sex with. They come in two I don't know why.

Her reason for lying about one of those guys is rediculous. He was one of her many exes. I was asking her all along "is there anyone else that I don't know". I knew him allright, as her EX , I met him once long time ago. She said, she didn't mentioned that she had sex with him, into third year of our marriage, because he was not a new guy, Should I take this to lame excuses subject.

She is doing a teribble job to even make it for the sake of kids.

I know, she has been an easy whor*, slu*, low life, whatever, but still lying until the next round of talk, even some street whor*s have more deciency.


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## cledus_snow

> even some street whor*s have more deciency.


ain't _that_ about a b1tch.


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## keko

Its like a fruit tree, the more you shake it the more "truth" comes out.

Are you divorcing her? If not, might as well stop asking her question's so you'll still have some sanity left after all.


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## SweetAndSour

I feel like an interigation officer. It is a new hobby of mine. If you don't involve your feelings while working, it is quite rewarding. There are many technics before going for polygraph route. It helps to an apprentice like me to have a subject as having the opposite of a poker face.


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## Shaggy

So you finding out that your complete past with her was nothing but a lie. She expect fidelity and support from you, while she willing chose to cheat constantly.

That's who she is. Perhaps looking to the future you have to realize that she will continue to be that same selfish cheating person.

Why isn't she out in the street plying her trade? She obviously isn't fit to be a wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

How did these flood gates open? Why is she telling them now?


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## morituri

keko said:


> Its like a fruit tree, the more you shake it the more "truth" comes out.


I thought more in terms of a rat's nest on top of a palm tree that when the base of the tree gets bumped really hard, the rats fall to the ground.


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## bandit.45

morituri said:


> I thought more in terms of a rat's nest on top of a palm tree that when the base of the tree gets bumped really hard, the rats fall to the ground.


Lots of scorpions and spiders too.

My god this is the most awful story I have ever heard. He needs to pimp her out and get back some of his money.


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## morituri

This is beginning to look like a classic example of "the law of threes". If a man tells you he slept with 15 women, divide by 3 to get the real number of sexual partners (5) and if a woman tells you she slept with only 5 men, multiply the number by 3 to get the real number of sexual partners (15).


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## SweetAndSour

I strayed to the other thread "Mental, personality disorders and infidelity." and continued from there explaining the latest. I am carrying my latest posts from there to here just copying and pasting below.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

april 9 2012 I wrote;

3l, berilo,

Thanks for your inputs, thats what I was looking for. I want to say/add/ask more but today I am really down. I will come back another time.

Just 2 hours ago I had another revelation from my wife of 20 years on the phone, it is hard to breath.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Later that day I wrote ;

No it is not about anything new about abortion.

She just said on the phone that she was sexually abused when she was 12. Abuser was not one of her parents but she was a relative of her's. she could'nt say much on the phone.

She was talking about being abused as a child by her parents for years and I was asking if anything sexual happened, she was saying no. Now I am learning this.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Today I wrote;

After she came home I learned that sexual abuse took place when she was 9 years old, not 12. Abuser was an adult aunt. She was too uncomfortable to talk about that last night so I did'nt push her to say more about that. Now that explains why she has been so distant to her family, and why it was so hard for her to understand that I was so comfortable and connected with my own family.

Still one more thing she said that around age 14, a friend of her father's forcefully kissed and grabbed her.... you know. She was able to escape before it turned worst. Later, the man was accused of abusing another young girl. My wife's parents were sorry for the man and stated their opinion in front of my wife as "he must be innocent and the girl must be lying for some reason". At that point my wife lost her last chance to come forward about that abuser and more importantly she lost her last hope about relying on her parents for her protection against the world.


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## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> How did these flood gates open? Why is she telling them now?


She want's to help me, really. We both have an understanding that we are probably going for seperation/divorce. Even if we divorce, she understands that she owes me a lot of explanations so I can make a better sense of things and move on with my life in a more informed, disillusioned state.

Still, she trickles truth and lies, tries to get away with as little emberrasment as possible. Does not understand the meaning of Heavy lifting which she had to be doing. Plus she does'nt want to hurt me more with more ugly stories which I understand. Still lying hurts me more than the ugly truths that she yet to understand.

When we start talking, she starts saying as "it was just an accidental kiss" and then I force it out of her that it was a full blown sex. Then she concludes saying, that was all, there is not anything else left uncovered. Another night we start again. a similar story repeats, There is nothing at the beginning but in an hour or so, one or two more PA story is revealed.

Living through this again and again without knowing when it will end is so torturous. I physically feel like I ran across a busy highway during rush hour and made it to the middle divide, so full of adrenaline, shaking, scared to death. Still I am in the middle divide, I still need to cross five more lanes to the other side.


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## SweetAndSour

I need to tell the story about the last OM she revealed, two days ago. It was the last she told me about but it was the first OM she had sex after we became lovers. Now it is the most hurting because of the nature of that affair if it can be called an affair.

It happened before we were married. it was roughly about a year after we met and become lovers and about 5 months before we married.

For all of her other affairs it could be said that we were having marital problems, or Wife and OM had some connection, but for this first one there was not such excuses.

Like I said before, during those days she was crazy about me. She could'nt stand a day without seeing me. I had to go away for a week, when I came back she was like she was in the hell for a week and now jesus himself (me) was taking her to back to heaven. She was deeply in love with me, seriously.....

She had sex with the other guy when she was feeling like that for me. No it did not happend when I was away. 

One day she goes to visit a male friend of hers for years, a couple blocks away from her home. Friend has a long term girlfriend. That day girlfriend is left him and he is really depressed. My wife says that she does not remember much but here are the things she remember.

_-We were sitting on the floor. He was sad about his girl friend.

-Not long after he started asking me to have sex with him. 

-Nothin else, no mention of becoming boyfriend and girlfriend, just sex right there.

-No mention of him having any feeling towards me other than wanting to have sex with me, 

-He said just having sex once right now is all he wants because he hopes to get back with his girlfriend and he knows that I am very deeply in love with my lower, sweetandsour. 

-I said to him I don't want to do it. More than once, I really didn't want to do it.

-I just wanted to leave, it was getting really uncomfortable.

-Next thing I remember, we are laying on the floor, naked, may be a kiss but not much foreplay. He puts a condom and starts doing me in missionary. 

-Then we continue on our sides. 

-And back to missionary again. I don't enjoy it at all. I look in to my watch and asked him, "will it take longer, finish it already please."

-He is surprized and says OK I am coming soon. but not sure if he really did after what I said.

-I did'nt feel anything sexual, did'nt want to do it, did'nt persue an orgasm, nothing. 

-And I was not looking for any extra attention from him by letting him f*** me. I did'nt like it.

-When I am dressing up, he asked about you. I told him that I am in love with sweetandsour, if he proposes to me I am going to marry him. 

-Then I left, came home, phoned you and we had one of our long sweet talks on the phone may be for an hour.

-I didn't see or talked to him after that. He did'nt tried to contact me either.

-I don't know why I did it. It was like giving a favor to a friend. I knew it was wrong so I hid it from you._

Around that episod, we were very close. We were seing each other daily. Having sex regularly, It was honeymoon time, before marriage, she was in FOG with me.

If she would say, I found him atractive and for a moment I gave into my animal side in the heat of the moment and I enjoyed the sex part of it, or the attention I received. I would understand, It would make sense, it would be more real. For some of her other affairs she freely admitted that, it was just monkey wild sex and at once she came in less then a minute after another OM entered her without much foreplay. Or she admitted that she liked the attention part from another OM. So I believe her when she says that I didn't wanted, get or enjoyed anything from this one.

But this.........., what is it ?


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## warlock07

Sympathy sex? WTF?


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## bandit.45

She's crazy with no boundaries. Why try to make sense of it? This is the woman you are married to and refuse to leave because you are crazy. You deserve each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

She's crazy. Downright crazy. I have a few other words to call it, but the forum will replace them with asterisks anyway.


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## Chaparral

It sounds like she puts little value on herself or sex either. It doesn't sound like she thinks it is all that important, like masturbation almost.


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## bandit.45

Exactly. She treats sex like she's brushing her teeth.


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## Shaggy

Wow your life is going to vastly improve with someone with her lack of love, empahy, or morals gone from it.

She is such an ugly person inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SweetAndSour

Since I logged in, I'll bother myself and you for one more.

A week ago she said that, that boy in college whom he drooled around my wife but panicked around me, they shared a kiss.

Yes , wife says it was just a kiss.


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## Shaggy

Are you still with her? Or is she gone and you ate filing for divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> Are you still with her? Or is she gone and you ate filing for divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No divorce yet.

Next week she is moving to our new home. I have my home office in my parents home and I can stay there too but,... will I be with her, move to the new place ? why not, I am one stupid, spineless shell of a man, empty inside, why not.


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## bandit.45

Holy crap!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Wtf? Do you actually have a thing she could do that would make you leave her? I mean anything? Why are you abusing yourself like this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

SweetAndSour said:


> No divorce yet.
> 
> Next week she is moving to our new home. I have my home office in my parents home and I can stay there too but,... will I be with her, move to the new place ? why not, I am one stupid, spineless shell of a man, empty inside, why not.


Your either very down and out or your wife has your account password.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SweetAndSour

Eli-Zor said:


> Your either very down and out or your wife has your account password.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am way down,

That new home,,,,,,,,,,

my 5 year old boy loves doing carpentery, plumming kind of work, typical 5 year old boy. he and I can spend the whole day in home depot type places. He has his room and his hobby room ready with kiddy size work bench and his tool box in that new home. He calls me his best friend and his work colleague. And he is connected to his mommy in a very deep way. Should I crush his world now or later ?..................

My wife begs me in tears to move there together and start a new life in our new home. She says all were in distant past, she realise that she is sick, she is in counseling, and she loves me and in love with me.

Me,.......... there is no sweetandsour anymore, I don't know who I am.


----------



## Shaggy

Are you in IC yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

SweetAndSour said:


> I am way down,
> 
> That new home,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> my 5 year old boy loves doing carpentery, plumming kind of work, typical 5 year old boy. he and I can spend the whole day in home depot type places. He has his room and his hobby room ready with kiddy size work bench and his tool box in that new home. He calls me his best friend and his work colleague. And he is connected to his mommy in a very deep way. Should I crush his world now or later ?..................
> 
> My wife begs me in tears to move there together and start a new life in our new home. She says all were in distant past, she realise that she is sick, she is in counseling, and she loves me and in love with me.
> 
> Me,.......... there is no sweetandsour anymore, I don't know who I am.


Your going through a rollercoaster of emotions and am guessing don't feel secure in your marriage or happy. In another post there is a recommendation to take up exercise , do some weights. This has nothing to do with you getting fit, it has everything to do with you clearing your mind. 

Get the book " his needs her needs " by Harley. Its not a long read and there are some specific items that may help you and your wife work together to help fill each others needs. R after an affair is hard work , both you and your wife should recognise that and start working to a common goal of making the marriage a happy one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

Eli-Zor said:


> Your going through a rollercoaster of emotions and am guessing don't feel secure in your marriage or happy. In another post there is a recommendation to take up exercise , do some weights. This has nothing to do with you getting fit, it has everything to do with you clearing your mind.
> 
> Get the book " his needs her needs " by Harley. Its not a long read and there are some specific items that may help you and your wife work together to help fill each others needs. R after an affair is hard work , both you and your wife should recognise that and start working to a common goal of making the marriage a happy one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tried to read as much as possible. The thing is, I had to read those years ago.

I started taking (would be) nice, long walks by the sea. I am an alcoholic now, it is hard to do anything more than that.

We took our boy to a children psychologist or a pedagoge as we call it here. He is doing well but he is smart and he senses that something is not right. On our last session, I was really down and explained to her that I am in deep depression and on medication, we basically said that and she saw that it is the most negative influence in my boys life. We had to tell her after her questioning that my wife was a serial cheater and lier etc......Pedagoge than preached us (rightfully) that my boy in his very tender ages and we should make him our priority.

Child psychologist used to tell us when to come back after every session. this time she did'nt do that. I reminded that to her secratary and for the last two week we still waiting for a callback. I guess we are too much even for the professionals.


----------



## bandit.45

You are qa classic codependent. You need to end this marriage and get help for yourself. See how toxic adultery is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your focus should be on you, the only one who can change yourself is you. Give up alcohol , go to AA if you have to , burn this out of your system. Hard exercise is known to help for depression .

Get this under control and your family life will get better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

One day your son is going to understand things like what you wife has done to you. What lesson do you think he'll learn? Will it be do what you've chosen, or to do the opposite?

While I agree that making him you priority is true, part of that is teaching him morals and right and wring through your personal actions.

I think the check list at a minimum must be:

1. No cheating going on, If you can some how even look at your wife after what she has done, I would that truely a miracle - but there can never be new cheating ever. 
2. Full and complete honestly and transparency. If you and you wife have secrets that will continue to erode what tiny emotional contact you can muster.

Keep in mind you are teaching not just what 5 year old needs but what a 25 year old needs when he is having relationships. You do not want him thinking that a man should accept what your wife has done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> Are you in IC yourself?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was,

My councellor has switched to taking care of my wife and because of the some conflict of interest or some technicality, he asked us which one of us would like to continue with him because he should not be treating both of us. Now my wife is councelled by him and I am waiting for the new counceller to arrive next month.

And what difference does it make, Psychology, psychiatry is more of an art then science. For some, life sucks and we are fvcks, I don't need any so called proffesional to see that and don't tell me that.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> One day your son is going to understand things like what you wife has done to you. What lesson do you think he'll learn? Will it be do what you've chosen, or to do the opposite?
> 
> While I agree that making him you priority is true, part of that is teaching him morals and right and wring through your personal actions.
> 
> I think the check list at a minimum must be:
> 
> 1. No cheating going on, If you can some how even look at your wife after what she has done, I would that truely a miracle - but there can never be new cheating ever.
> 2. Full and complete honestly and transparency. If you and you wife have secrets that will continue to erode what tiny emotional contact you can muster.
> 
> Keep in mind you are teaching not just what 5 year old needs but what a 25 year old needs when he is having relationships. You do not want him thinking that a man should accept what your wife has done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I still hope to at least fake it for my boy and his sister, as long as I can.

None of my friends coming from broken homes had long term relationships or became parents themselves. I want my kids to have what life may offer normally.

To decide what to do is not easy.


----------



## SweetAndSour

bandit.45 said:


> You are qa classic codependent. You need to end this marriage and get help for yourself. See how toxic adultery is?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


codependency is good and a must when you are with a woman/man.

Then when you realise that your partner is not what you assumed, then the all hell is broken loose on you. Then you are left with the choice (as if matters to you anymore) to do the good thing for you or not. 

What is good for me ? (this is not a question people)


----------



## Chaparral

SweetAndSour said:


> codependency is good and a must when you are with a woman/man.
> 
> Then when you realise that your partner is not what you assumed, then the all hell is broken loose on you. Then you are left with the choice (as if matters to you anymore) to do the good thing for you or not.
> 
> What is good for me ? (this is not a question people)


What is good for you and everyone else involved is to quit being a drunk. You say you put up with this to help your kids. Being a drunk is not helping your kids. Being a drunk dad is being an anchor around their necks. You must be the only one who doesn't know that.


----------



## Shaggy

Ditch the drink and you just find that your thinking becomes much better and clearer, letting you see new options to your problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

chapparal said:


> What is good for you and everyone else involved is to quit being a drunk. You say you put up with this to help your kids. Being a drunk is not helping your kids. Being a drunk dad is being an anchor around their necks. You must be the only one who doesn't know that.


I can not believe that I am debating this. You are totally right chapparal.

If I don't drink, and take my xanax to sleep, I feel like I'll lose it and put a really bad show in front of my kids. 

I try to hide what I really feel really hard from my kids, be it with alcohol or whatever.......

I drink and try to pretend that I am listening to to some music on youtube.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> Ditch the drink and you just find that your thinking becomes much better and clearer, letting you see new options to your problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I need to stop drinking or I'll be dead soon. I'll be 47 soon. As being a musician before, I used my liver hard when I was younger. I am having the signes of oncoming diabetes. 

I should quit and I will.


----------



## keko

SweetAndSour said:


> I still hope to at least fake it for my boy and his sister, as long as I can.
> 
> None of my friends coming from broken homes had long term relationships or became parents themselves. I want my kids to have what life may offer normally.
> 
> To decide what to do is not easy.


How is your relationship with your wife in front of the kids?

When you say friends, does it also reflect your country/culture?


----------



## SweetAndSour

keko said:


> How is your relationship with your wife in front of the kids?
> 
> When you say friends, does it also reflect your country/culture?


It is not much how I and wife carry ourselves in front of kids. It is me. Sometimes I find myself sitting on the armchair and staring to the wall for a very long time. Kids take notice and go to their own way. I used to be very entertaining and active for my kids. My wife is very loving to me right now.


I am trying to keep myself anonymous so am hiding where I am from. My friends and myself are pretty of much an example of regular, educated people who are living in cities, for my age.

For the younger people here, I can say that any 16 year old sophomore girl has more sexual experience already than I will ever have around here today.

Still my wife would make any of them look like a nune.


----------



## keko

SweetAndSour said:


> It is not much how I and wife carry ourselves in front of kids. It is me. Sometimes I find myself sitting on the armchair and staring to the wall for a very long time. Kids take notice and go to their own way. I used to be very entertaining and active for my kids. My wife is very loving to me right now.


How much longer do you think you'll go on like this? I understand you want to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids, but your current condition doesn't seem like its's helping them either.

Are you opening yourself up to family/friends? Maybe expressing yourself will help you heal faster, minus your wife confessing a little detail every now and then.


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## Kallan Pavithran

If you are staying in the marriage for the sakes of children, then leave them, your presence is toxic to them. You dont have anything good to show them morally and as a drunkard very toxic to them psychologically.


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## SweetAndSour

I just told you what I learned a week ago,

two weeks ago there was something else that I learned.

Ten years ago when we are back to our home country, my wifes old friends threw a party. I met with many of her friends from past that I heard but never met, since we were away.

In that party I spent a lot of time talking to one of her old friends about some technical issue relating to his new business endeavour. I provided him with a lot of engineering solutions with his problems.

That party was ten years ago. Two weeks ago, after much questioning of everyting, she said that, that friend of her's that I clicked in that party AND the host of that party.............guess what, those two had kissed my wife. 

That night, ten years ago, I didn't know that but my wife and those two guys were sharing more than I knew, and probably made a clown of myself. 

My wife says now tthat it was even before we met and they just kissed, nothing else...........

Then why I feel like stupid about that night ?


----------



## warlock07

At this point, you will have to assume that she had some kind of sexual contact with almost every male she was in contact with. she was giving sympathy sex for f*ck sake...The fact that the guy knew he could do it tells that she was kinda known for that.


----------



## snap

Even if the history she had with them was all before you met, she should have warned before taking you to a party with her exes. It's rude and inconsiderate.


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## SweetAndSour

Kallan Pavithran said:


> If you are staying in the marriage for the sakes of children, then leave them, your presence is toxic to them. You dont have anything good to show them morally and as a drunkard very toxic to them psychologically.


Yes, I can't continue like this for long. This is not sustainable.


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## Dollystanford

ditch this b*tch - what on earth are you waiting for?
is she going to start bringing her lovers home and do it in your bed whilst you're sleeping on the sofa?


----------



## SweetAndSour

keko said:


> How much longer do you think you'll go on like this? I understand you want to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids, but your current condition doesn't seem like its's helping them either.
> 
> Are you opening yourself up to family/friends? Maybe expressing yourself will help you heal faster, minus your wife confessing a little detail every now and then.



I have nobody to talk to. I hinted my one very good friend for 27 years about what am I going through and we ended up with me advising him about the new psycho girl who just met which he is already having problems with and we didn't share anything about what is going on in between me and my wife. Men can not console each or talk about cheating.... period. I remember him loosing his 15 year long girl friend after her affair about 5 years ago and I remember myself steering away from the subject. 

I have only the good people here at TAM to talk to. I can not say how greatfull I am to have you all. I have been to many forums but I have never felt this connected before. Thank you all really......thanks.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Dollystanford said:


> ditch this b*tch - what on earth are you waiting for?
> is she going to start bringing her lovers home and do it in your bed whilst you're sleeping on the sofa?


This is not new her last cheating was before 13 years ago but I started learning what really went in my life recently, thanks to TAM. 

Should I believe that ? she came clean now, may be, I don't believe even myself anymore. 

Like I said in another thread before, she has been my best friend for the last 21 years and I see her existence in everything I know, everything I enjoyed, ......everything. If not seeing her anymore would do it, I'd do it.

It is not about loosing her. It is about loosing myself, half of mylife. Call it codependency.


----------



## SweetAndSour

just to give you an example,

my wife and are enjoyed eating and cooking, took it to the extend that, we can make our own miso paste or soy sauce from raw soybeans or make our own brie chese (try at least). 

Now after I learned that she had sex with four guys during her last trip to asia, I can not stand the smell of any asian food, no more soy sauce for me. With or without her. There goes a big part of my existence. Just an example.

I have not left with much to not to remind me of her in every ten minutes. So I could move on alone, I wish it would be as easy as just loosing her.

I guess I need to find a way to accept her as she is, find some peace in that understanding and move on without her, and get my soy sauce back. (someone put a smilie here)


----------



## Shaggy

So she's been faithful for 13 years? But before that cheated extensively?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> So she's been faithful for 13 years? But before that cheated extensively?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep,

And she took care of me financially when I loose money, all that time and she gave me two kids while she's been working more than full time..

Not as black and white as it should be right?


----------



## Shaggy

So what does she claim changed 13 years ago that she suddenly found a way to stop?

You say she turns you down for years, so obviously her sexual opennes doesn't extend to you, how does she explain this?

Then there is the abortion etc. from the start of this thread. How does she explain that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> So what does she claim changed 13 years ago that she suddenly found a way to stop?
> 
> You say she turns you down for years, so obviously her sexual opennes doesn't extend to you, how does she explain this?
> 
> Then there is the abortion etc. from the start of this thread. How does she explain that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All true, nothing is certain, again it is not all black or white.

And I am all lost and found myself in TAM.

She says, she saw how her last affair 13 years ago hurt me and she decided to change her behaviour. That didn't mean to have a proper relationship with me after that though.


----------



## keko

Given her past record and her work travel(s), are comfortable she isn't behaving the same way? Not saying if you trust her or not, but if you're having gut feeling's of it happening again.


----------



## Shaggy

Is she willing to take a polygraph?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Honestly you seem to be only the second guy she has ever said no too. That alone frankly would have me showing her divorce papers. Not because of the sex, but because of the rejection and humiliating slap in the face that comes with it.

I think your conflict and pain is bring enhanced because you know that divorcing her is what is right for you and wht she deserves. I don't think she stopped cheating 13 years ago and I don't think the aborted kid was yours. Sorry, but I just don't.

If she really wants to oe clean then have the polygraph,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Hey, whats up? I just wanted to let you know that story is not so unique, and I'm not going give you any advice or perspective. Just that the only difference between the two of us is your deal happend in the begaining where as mine happen later in the marriage.

Two years ago I finally confronted my fWW with her 20th OM and it only took 13yrs to get there.

again alot of simularities with your story and we both have a lot of sh!t to sort out.

Its not what knocks us down that matters, its how we get back up that counts. Don't ever forget this!

Now, my favorite and only montra is " I diserve good things"

Good luck brother, I doubt I'll be back to this thread, its to damb long, just like my [email protected] 20 yr marriage was.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy brings up a really good point. Ask her why only you and one other man were not good enough for her to have sex with. I also agree that would be enough reason to divorce her. She gives it to everyone but you.

If she won't have sex with you, she doesn't consider you her husband. Ask her what she considers you to be. Sounds like she considers you to be a servant.


----------



## SweetAndSour

We need updates. Here is my update for now.

It is late. I am seperated from my kids, our home, my best friend and my love, tonight. Iam drunk and drugged myself so that I'd be in half comma soon. I wish I won't wake up again. But I know and I make sure that It won't happen. I'll be up tomorrow, early I'll pick my kids from my wifes home, take the older one to school, and life will go on. Hell I am so ready to go to tibet and loose myself in a cave.


----------



## Shaggy

Please do not abuse yourself with drink and drugs. Your kids need you. She is the one who has cheated and betrayed not you. Get back in your home. File for D, but you don't leave and you take cared yourself.


----------



## warlock07

Stop the pity party. As much pain as you are in, being a drunk does not solve anything


----------



## SweetAndSour

Update,

Wife and I are divorcing. We both have our lawyers working on it.

Anyways, we put the christmas tree up a little late, last night. Wife two kids and I were putting on the ornaments, my 5 year old singing all the christmas songs he know, and I was putting aside everything and I was trying to find a little cozyness during one of our last times as a family together. Mostly for my kids. 

Tree was done, kids and I were watching the lights, ornaments and talking about santa and his magic. Wife started to show her concern about me staying the night in OUR home. It is legally my home and that's where I am supposed to sleep, still. 

I first said her "please, this is for kids". Then I decided to leave, I tried to make it easy on my kids but my 5 year old boy wanted to come with me no matter what, Then I realised that wife did'nt want to deal with kids anyways and she was OK with me and kids are leaving, because she had her work in mind, she brought home and couln'dt deal with kids. 

Kids and I could be sitting around the tree and then go to bed (wife has her own single bed) soon and wife could go to another room and do what ever she wants to do with her computer, but she said no. She wanted me out and since she could'nt take care of the kids they had to leave with me too.

At the end, we put up the tree, and kids and I had to leave home after that. Such a f*****up memory for my kids.

Marry christmas everybody,


----------



## Acabado

SweetAndSour said:


> She wanted me out and since she could'nt take care of the kids they had to leave with me too.
> At the end, we put up the tree, and kids and I had to leave home after that. Such a f*****up memory for my kids.


I'm very sorry man. You wife's behavior towards her own kids is despicable. This is what you wrote about her in the original post if this thread.


> She adores our kids. She values life so that she (would) put(s) her life on the line for others, animals' included. She menages to stay vegetarian despite of being a gourme meat lover inside. She supports charities for abondened, mistreated kids, donates and works for them, sometimes comes home crying for some of the kids she met and would adopt one, last year if I'd go for it (I think).


What are the terms of the divorce custody wise?

You will get better once as get away from this soul parasite. No doubt about it. Focus in getting healthier and healthier. How are you doing it with the booze?

Hang in there.


----------



## happyman64

S&S

Just enjoy Xmas with your kids.

Protect them and love them.

Because with a mom like that they will need you a lot more.

HM64


----------



## happyman64

PS

Since the house is yours you should have grabbed her laptop, put it in her hand and told her to leave.

I know, more drama.

Take care of yourself.


----------



## kenmoore14217

" She wanted me out and since she could'nt take care of the kids they had to leave with me too."


Huh? A women and her castle?


----------



## warlock07

Is she with someone else already ? Her behavior seems like it.


----------



## keko

Poor kids.


----------



## Kasler

This is the price of being a beta male. The longer you accept it, the worse it gets, and now shes abandoning the kids. 

Really sad for them. 

All this could have been avoided.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Acabado said:


> I'm very sorry man. You wife's behavior towards her own kids is despicable. This is what you wrote about her in the original post if this thread.
> 
> What are the terms of the divorce custody wise?
> 
> You will get better once as get away from this soul parasite. No doubt about it. Focus in getting healthier and healthier. How are you doing it with the booze?
> 
> Hang in there.


Yes, until about a year ago, I used to believe that she was a decent person, to put it simply. I had'nt came here to bash her. When I read my first posts now that, I can see that I was living in a dream for years.

I am looking for a fifty/fifty shared custody, She wants the full custody of the kids. We both are not asking for anything financial from each other including alimony.

I started cutting down on booze after roller coster ride ended. I can sleep better without the help of booze and priscripton xanax. Still I am far from my regular three cans during the weekend days routine. 

I am looking forward for better days. Still, I am worried for my poor kids.


----------



## SweetAndSour

happyman64 said:


> PS
> 
> Since the house is yours you should have grabbed her laptop, put it in her hand and told her to leave.
> 
> I know, more drama.
> 
> Take care of yourself.



Officially it is our family home, but she started looking for a new place for herself to be able to leave me and go to her own way before divorce is finalized. She can leave tomorrow with kids and can do that legally, this is not US. It would put a stress financially on her, besides our current home is at walking distance to my boy's school and to my mom's home where I live now and take kids daily, during day time. So I left before then legally I am supposed to, to keep my kids where they are used to be and physically comfoftable.


----------



## SweetAndSour

warlock07 said:


> Is she with someone else already ? Her behavior seems like it.


I don't know, I don't care. 

She is not in the fog of an affair. She is permenantly crooked. 

There may not be anyone today but, she may be in bed with someone tomorrow after they just meet and know each other for only hours. As she prooved to be capable of before, time and again.


----------



## SweetAndSour

keko said:


> Poor kids.


Yes, I try to cut a slack for her but the end result is, my kids had to open their presents before santa's visit and leave home at christmas night because they were not going to be home in the morning.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Kasler said:


> This is the price of being a beta male. The longer you accept it, the worse it gets, and now shes abandoning the kids.
> 
> Really sad for them.
> 
> All this could have been avoided.


I was the alpha plus when first we met and years after that, believe me. I was the guy who made women drool around me even when their boyfriends are right besides them, boyfriends loved and respected me too.

If I can't be a beta in the comfort of my wife of twenty two years then be it so, I'll take it. I don't want to dance in a primitive mating game with a shallow women for the rest of my life.


----------



## Kasler

SweetAndSour said:


> I was the alpha plus when first we met and years after that, believe me. I was the guy who made women drool around me even when their boyfriends are right besides them, boyfriends loved and respected me too.
> 
> If I can't be a beta in the comfort of my wife of twenty two years then be it so, I'll take it. I don't want to dance in a primitive mating game with a shallow women for the rest of my life.


Its not a game, just a temperament. 

Having a family life isn't the equivalent of being a beta. Plenty of family men are alphas. 

Just depends on not forgetting who you are. Remember the me even while embracing the we.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Kasler said:


> Its not a game, just a temperament.
> 
> Having a family life isn't the equivalent of being a beta. Plenty of family men are alphas.
> 
> Just depends on not forgetting who you are. Remember the me even while embracing the we.


She had her affairs mostly when I was, in fact alpha, with mostly gamma men. This is a story about a sick human being, my wife, so regular convention doesn't apply much. 

I would still be a beta with a healthy woman and able draw her into me if she was just mentally healthy.


----------



## SweetAndSour

SweetAndSour said:


> Yes, I try to cut a slack for her but the end result is, my kids had to open their presents before santa's visit and leave home at christmas night because they were not going to be home in the morning.


I need to Edit myself.

my STBXW reads what I write here. She warned me that the christmas story above is imaginary and she is a great mom, overworks to provide for our kids and everything will be better when their dad leaves the home.

Her version includes that we let the kids open their presents before christmas because our boy wanted it and we let him to do so. She is right, Since I wasn't going to be there in a hectic weekday morning (christmas mornings are regular business days here), to help with kids, it was going to be a half ass christmas morning anyways so we let them open the presents early. 

Plus, above story spans on two nights, Not just christmas night. 23rd night, we put the three up, I had to leave with kids soon after that, and 24th night, I had to leave with kids again but one changed his mind, actually, he didn't want any body to leave, and I left with the younger one. So I don't get the significance of this but I have to edit this too. Yes two nights not just one.

Oh yeah I had to add that she is a great person. (I am teasing you honey, just smile)

I don't know what else to edit. If she want's to give her version of things she may chime in anytime.

I, myself let her know about TAM and my posts here during the first days of our doomed reconciliation and I hoped she would join in then, it didn't happen.

I know I am being followed here but I don't write for her (except this).


----------



## Gabriel

SweetAndSour said:


> I need to Edit myself.
> 
> my STBXW reads what I write here. She warned me that the christmas story above is imaginary and she is a great mom, overworks to provide for our kids and everything will be better when their dad leaves the home.
> 
> Her version includes that we let the kids open their presents before christmas because our boy wanted it and we let him to do so. She is right, Since I wasn't going to be there in a hectic weekday morning (christmas mornings are regular business days here), to help with kids, it was going to be a half ass christmas morning anyways so we let them open the presents early.
> 
> Plus, above story spans on two nights, Not just christmas night. 23rd night, we put the three up, I had to leave with kids soon after that, and 24th night, I had to leave with kids again but one changed his mind, actually, he didn't want any body to leave, and I left with the younger one. So I don't get the significance of this but I have to edit this too. Yes two nights not just one.
> 
> Oh yeah I had to add that she is a great person. (I am teasing you honey, just smile)
> 
> I don't know what else to edit. If she want's to give her version of things she may chime in anytime.
> 
> I, myself let her know about TAM and my posts here during the first days of our doomed reconciliation and I hoped she would join in then, it didn't happen.
> 
> I know I am being followed here but I don't write for her (except this).


Wow, what a witch. Congrats on divorcing her. I know this is a sad, sad story and you wish it would be different. At this stage, focus on your kids.


----------



## Shaggy

So she reads what is written here? She cheats, lies, and betrays you without guilt, remorse, or even shame, and she then wants to review and edit the truth you write about your situation.

Wow. Why would you put with her telling you to edit the truth? There is no way to spin her cheating and betrayal in anyway that doesn't make it seem as awful as it is, including an abortion. 

I forget did you ever find out who's it might have been?


----------



## SweetAndSour

Shaggy said:


> So she reads what is written here? She cheats, lies, and betrays you without guilt, remorse, or even shame, and she then wants to review and edit the truth you write about your situation.
> 
> Wow. Why would you put with her telling you to edit the truth? There is no way to spin her cheating and betrayal in anyway that doesn't make it seem as awful as it is, including an abortion.
> 
> I forget did you ever find out who's it might have been?


She didn't ask me to come back and edit what I wrote here. She just let me know that it was'nt all true. I did the editing just for my consience. Yes I was 0.1% wrong this time.

I guess the aborted baby was mine but, I'll put another ugly spin on abortion. She has a crush on that gynocologist who performed the abortion, illegaly, murdered my baby, He is married with kids too. I read that out of her unspoken words during the first days of our reconciliation talks about ayear ago. When she started talking about him (you know the way a ...lets say...... an admiring woman talks about a next POSOM alpha male), He is smart, understanding, lovable, like how she was planning to take advanced biking classes with him, buying a bike and etc......


----------



## Chaparral

SweetAndSour said:


> She didn't ask me to come back and edit what I wrote here. She just let me know that it was'nt all true. I did the editing just for my consience. Yes I was 0.1% wrong this time.
> 
> I guess the aborted baby was mine but, I'll put another ugly spin on abortion. She has a crush on that gynocologist who performed the abortion, illegaly, murdered my baby, He is married with kids too. I read that out of her unspoken words during the first days of our reconciliation talks about ayear ago. When she started talking about him (you know the way a ...lets say...... an admiring woman talks about a next POSOM alpha male), He is smart, understanding, lovable, like how she was planning to take advanced biking classes with him, buying a bike and etc......


If it was illegal, rat him out.


----------



## SweetAndSour

chapparal said:


> If it was illegal, rat him out.


I talked about that option on my earlier posts. It was not a late term abortion or anything like that but Doctor had to have husbands written consent which he faild to do so. 

During those days I was hoping to restore our marriage to a better one. Going to court for abortion would put me and wife into opposite sides besides the doctor. I had more at the stake then. Now, I lost my marriage, my sanity, why not. I may go after him. 

We are not in US, I wouldn't be awarded as high dolar amount as in US, but I'd still get some. Besides, doctor would be penalized by authorities, I doubt he would loose his licence though, I wouldn't want that to happen. That doctor is a good man. He knew that if he didn't perform the operation wife could find another doctor. He feels reponsible for his patients, seriously. Still he made a mistake, played a role in my life which he didn't have a right to.

This abortion without my permission is an advantage for me for our divorce case too but I hope wife and I can finalize our divorce without inflicting more damage onto each other, I hope it doesn't come to that.


----------



## Thor

SweetAndSour said:


> Besides, doctor would be penalized by authorities, I doubt he would loose his licence though, I wouldn't want that to happen. That doctor is a good man. He knew that if he didn't perform the operation wife could find another doctor. He feels reponsible for his patients, seriously. Still he made a mistake, played a role in my life which he didn't have a right to.


He knowingly broke the law and did something immoral or wrong, however you want to look at it. He could have chosen to say he would not do it. Even though he knew she could go somewhere else he could choose to not do something illegal and wrong.

I would not feel badly about him being penalized for doing this without your written permission. He knew the possible consequences. Your wife was wrong to put him in that position and he should be angry at her, too.

He may be good in other ways but in this way he was not.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Thor said:


> He knowingly broke the law and did something immoral or wrong, however you want to look at it. He could have chosen to say he would not do it. Even though he knew she could go somewhere else he could choose to not do something illegal and wrong.
> 
> I would not feel badly about him being penalized for doing this without your written permission. He knew the possible consequences. Your wife was wrong to put him in that position and he should be angry at her, too.
> 
> He may be good in other ways but in this way he was not.


I didn't mean that I would'nt like him to suffer the consequencess of his mistakes. I may definitely go after him.

He has been been a figure which we could rely on during the hard times of our two pregnancies and was present during my hapiest moments, my kids births.

I am a good guy, I like and trust people easily. Now I try to adjust myself to new reality. The doc, like my wife are not the people who I gave credit for before anymore.

I can definetly go after him.


----------



## keko

SweetAndSour said:


> This abortion without my permission is an advantage for me for our divorce case too but I hope wife and I can finalize our divorce without inflicting more damage onto each other, I hope it doesn't come to that.


Honestly given what she has done until now and probably more that you're not aware of, don't you think she'll get vindictive at some point? Make the divorce a hell for you?

As they say hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


----------



## SweetAndSour

keko said:


> Honestly given what she has done until now and probably more that you're not aware of, don't you think she'll get vindictive at some point? Make the divorce a hell for you?
> 
> As they say hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


I surrender.

Not to her but to the reality. I will try my best while she shows her worst.


----------



## Chaparral

SweetAndSour said:


> I surrender.* where is the logic in that*
> 
> Not to her but to the reality. I will try my best while she shows her worst.


*A good man/doctor murdered your baby. Where is the logic in that? Evidently, babies aren't thought to highly of there. Logic?

You eveidently weren't pissed very long. Where is the logic i that.

If it makes you feel better, logic is in short supply here also.*


----------



## SweetAndSour

chapparal said:


> *A good man/doctor murdered your baby. Where is the logic in that? Evidently, babies aren't thought to highly of there. Logic?
> 
> You eveidently weren't pissed very long. Where is the logic i that.
> 
> If it makes you feel better, logic is in short supply here also.*


My main concern for not going after the doctor was possibility of hampering the reconciliation process with my wife. I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'll talk to my lawyer next time when I see her about the doctor and the abortion.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Today we gave our lawyers the go ahead.

For the last days, I was combing through our things to separate my things. I came across her letters sent overseas to me from the first days of our marriage from twenty years ago. They are hand written in real paper. Real letters before internet times.

They are all so sweet but two in particular touched me deeply. She was going to have a little surgery. It was going to be under full anesthesia and as always there was a small change of not waking back up.

She wrote two letters to me, one with a tiny positive, other with a negative sign at the corner of envelops. My brother was with her at the time. Letters were given to my brother before surgery. He was going to mail the appropriate letter, depending on her survival.

I had received the letter with plus sign at the corner, twenty years ago. On the letter, after saying she survived, she was painting our future as a dream slowly coming true, professing her love passionately.

Later, I found and opened the other envelop too, with the minus sign at the corner. This envelop was ticker. There was a recently bought life insurance policy on her name and I was the sole beneficiary. There was a letter from her too. That was a very loving an sad letter. She was telling me to enjoy my life after her and to finish my education with the insurance money.

I couldn't keep my tears from falling. That was the girl I was married. I was living or I thought I was living the first letter up until a year ago. 

Then, a year ago the harsh reality started to set in. The girl I was married is dead in a way as in the second letter now and I am missing her dearly even if she was an illusion. I couldn't keep myself from replying to those letters twenty years later. 

I don`t now. Was I torturing myself further or was it the part of my mourning/recovery process ? 

I am really touchy today.


----------



## LetDownNTX

I think its natural and I think any of us would read the letters. Let your memories be good ones, otherwise you will feel like the last 20 years were a lie. Thats just my opinion!


----------



## JCD

Well, this was a pretty depressing and pathetic read.

I am still waiting for some personal growth. The fact you needed to be cozened into this divorce, with a woman who cheated on you with what? 6? 10? 20? men

Who mistreated you, and denied you sex, according to you for DECADES. THIS is the woman you call 'your best friend'.

And I bet you haven' revealed the reason for your divorce.

If nothing else, you've made me feel MUCH more alpha. Thank you.


----------



## happyman64

You should have given her the letters to read.

Then walked away....


----------



## SweetAndSour

Our court date is set at March 27.

I am better than a year ago, but I`ll never be as good as when I was blind, naive, stupid, trusting, as before I found TAM..... 

I`ve been focked good by a sick woman. This is my life story.


----------



## happyman64

You will be great S&S.

I am glad you are moving on.


----------



## IsthisInsanity?

WOW.....just WOW. If found your thread an hour ago and read it all...... again wow. Im sorry what happen. good to see u moving on. This Wife is the most repulsive person i have ever heard from. There are 250k words but none can explain how she disgusts me. I ask myself what would happen if you had breaking up with her at her first ONS...... have to take a cigarette at my balocony ...... If my current or future GF or Wife will ever cheat on me, i will remember your sad story an will breaking up


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

chapparal said:


> *A good man/doctor murdered your baby. Where is the logic in that? Evidently, babies aren't thought to highly of there. Logic?
> 
> You eveidently weren't pissed very long. Where is the logic i that.
> 
> If it makes you feel better, logic is in short supply here also.*


I am so apalled and I agree.

Even if it wasn't OP's baby, abortion (baby murder), if anyone has seen it, is so brutal.

Your wife is obviously not caring over "life, even animals" as you stated in your first post. Actions speak otherwise.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Court date was today and I am a divorced man now. I can write pages more but I am not going to. I am not sad I feel just blank.


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck, better days are ahead.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Since it is half public, I'll add to that.

...................................................deleted

This guy has a role in why my family is here today.

He is one of the guys that my wife cheated on me with.

He knew that my wife was a married woman. In fact when we first met I was with my wife, and that was the first time he saw my wife.

Then, during his affair with my wife, I learned that, he was also with or engaged or married with that doctor girl.

Later I learned that he was married to a doctor and had three kids which I don't know if she is the same doctor girl but giving the time frame it is her.

During the first days of my time on TAM I learned that we have an obligation to let the wife or husband of OW/OM to know that their partner is/was cheating on them.

Would it make his x wife to fell better if she learnes now that scott also cheated on her before all hell broke loose on her life ?


EDIT : PLEASE READ.
I gave the news link above about one guy that my wife cheated with 20 years ago. I thought it is an interesting edition to my story. BUT by doing that I may be exposing that guy too. I am not sure if it is a good thing or bad thing for him and especially for his Xwife.
SO please delete out his name and the news link if you quote this post. I am deleting his name and the news link.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

SweetAndSour said:


> Since it is half public, I'll add to that.
> 
> 
> He thought meth had taken all it could. But Scott Moyers still needed to hear from the judge. : News
> 
> This guy..., Scott Moyers of Cape Girardeau.....has a role in why my family is here today.
> 
> He is one of the guys that my wife cheated on me with.
> 
> He knew that my wife was a married woman. In fact when we first met I was with my wife, and that was the first time he saw my wife.
> 
> Then, during his affair with my wife, I learned that, he was also with or engaged or married with that doctor girl.
> 
> Later I learned that he was married to a doctor and had three kids which I don't know if she is the same doctor girl but giving the time frame it is her.
> 
> During the first days of my time on TAM I learned that we have an obligation to let the wife or husband of OW/OM to know that their partner is/was cheating on them.
> 
> Would it make scott moyers x wife to fell better if she learnes now that scott also cheated on her before all hell broke loose on her life ?


To hard to answer. If she is a spouse who has no clue why the marriage disintegrated it just might help.

If she knows, it may dredge up depressing memories and set her back.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

How did your wife meet this court reporter from St. Louis when you live in the Mediterranean?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

ebp123 said:


> How did your wife meet this court reporter from St. Louis when you live in the Mediterranean?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is that all your concern ?


----------



## SurpriseMyself

SweetAndSour said:


> Is that all your concern ?


No. It is not... If your story is true. But this casts doubt on your entire story. How a court reporter from middle America could meet up with and have an affair with a doctor from across the ocean... And how would you even know his name?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SweetAndSour

ebp123 said:


> No. It is not... If your story is true. But this casts doubt on your entire story. [U*]How a court reporter from middle America could meet up with and have an affair with a doctor from across the ocean*[/U]... And how would you even know his name?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Is it my english,....... is it that bad ? Please read back again.

I am probably an older poster than you here. Most of my peer sufferers are already gone away for good with their lives already, as I've done. I am back just for a thought.

I laid my history and geography here and there on TAM before in detail. You shouldn't have asked. I am saying this since you mention my whole story. 

Funny that I still get that "doubt on my story" line.


----------



## clipclop2

I don't see a thread devoted to your whole story. Would you post a link please?


----------



## SurpriseMyself

SweetAndSour said:


> Is it my english,....... is it that bad ? Please read back again.
> 
> I am probably an older poster than you here. Most of my peer sufferers are already gone away for good with their lives already, as I've done. I am back just for a thought.
> 
> I laid my history and geography here and there on TAM before in detail. You shouldn't have asked. I am saying this since you mention my whole story.
> 
> Funny that I still get that "doubt on my story" line.


Fine. You don't want to answer a simple question... I think I have the answer I was looking for. 

Hope no one else wastes their time on this thread. It's fake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LOL The poster you are admonishing, who asked you a question about your story, joined in 2009. You joined in 2012. So, no, unless you have another account you haven't been here longer.


----------



## SweetAndSour

clipclop2 said:


> I don't see a thread devoted to your whole story. Would you post a link please?


Well you're on it.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will see my name at the first post.

This is my first and main thread. I also had started some other threads mostly about dealing with a narcissistic spouse and serial cheater and contributed to threads which mostly deals with those issues.

I don't expect you to go through all.

You can skip to post number 105 on this thread for a summary until then. It gets more interesting after that though. 

Thanks for your more constructive interest.


----------



## SweetAndSour

ebp123 said:


> Fine. You don't want to answer a simple question... I think I have the answer I was looking for.
> 
> Hope no one else wastes their time on this thread. It's fake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK I'll answer that one. 

This affair took place 20 years ago when me , my wife and this guy happened to be living in the same town in US despite where we live now and where we are originally from. 

I really like to share our experinces and ideas here. They've been valuable to me. 

The answer to your question has been here for a long time. I could repeat it for you again if you'd sound like someone who is really interested in what I say but you didn't even read my last post correctly. Please go back and read who is the doctor.

You are welcome if you turn off your troll hunter mode with me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

S&S, did you say in one of your threads that you and your wife are originally from the Philippines but are now living and working in the Middle East ? Did she also live in the USA before?


----------



## SweetAndSour

manfromlamancha said:


> S&S, did you say in one of your threads that you and your wife are originally from the Philippines but are now living and working in the Middle East ? Did she also live in the USA before?


Nop, it is not me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

So where are you originally from ?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

To answer your question, no, I would not reach out to this guy's ex wife to inform her that her husband or fiancé or boyfriend may or may not have had an affair with your wife that you have also since divorced 20 years ago. A guy that she has since divorced, who blew upwards of $250k in drugs. This woman has suffered enough, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Jasel

Ya I also wouldn't tell his wife anything unless you can provide concrete evidence of the affair.


Anyway just got through reading this entire thread. WS is fvcking vomit inducing.


----------



## SweetAndSour

manfromlamancha said:


> So where are you originally from ?


Here is warlock07's question from two and a half years ago;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40734-i-am-pissed-never-before-10.html#post639404

and my answer;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40734-i-am-pissed-never-before-10.html#post639558

He asks again;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40734-i-am-pissed-never-before-10.html#post639618

and the answer;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40734-i-am-pissed-never-before-10.html#post639771


----------



## manfromlamancha

OK got it - I only said that because I know quite a bit about the Philippino culture and thought you might be from there. Also you mentioned going back home to Asia from a mediterranean country that doesn't observe Saturday and Sunday as the day off (hence the Middle East sprung to mind where they have Thursday and Friday). And because of the many mixtures that exist in the Philippines you get different shades and you mentioned that you looked more North European whereas she didn't.


----------



## SweetAndSour

PhillyGuy13 said:


> To answer your question, no, I would not reach out to this guy's ex wife to inform her that her husband or fiancé or boyfriend may or may not have had an affair with your wife that you have also since divorced 20 years ago. A guy that she has since divorced, who blew upwards of $250k in drugs. This woman has suffered enough, wouldn't you agree?


I am not thinking to inform her. I hope she is over him and she is doing well. I don't know her but I feel like we are on the same side. 

About three years ago after TAM has started to open my eyes, when I am still married to my wife and hoping to recover together from her past with her and that OM guy is still married to that doctor wife and he had'nt blown his life with drugs (at least it was hidden then), I seriously thought to inform his wife about his affair (even though it took place long time ago) with my wife and post him on cheaterville. 

I developed a sense after I started TAM that if someone has a knowledge of a cheating affair and he/she is not sharing that info with the innocent but unknowingly abused party which are the unaware partners of the cheaters, should'nt dare to look themselves in the eye in the mirror.

Anyways, I didn't contact his wife then but I still, to this day, feel like I owe something to her. After I've got the news about his drug use and their divorce recently, things came back in my mind and I made my post yesterday after one and a half year hiatus.

I am still not sure if his current doctor Xwife is the same girl which he was involved in 1994 when he was having his affair with my wife. 

All I know that when he was having sex with my wife in 1994 he also was having a long distance relationship with a medical student girl in another town for school. 

I am not judging him for his drug use or what he has done with his life. I know much worst people, like my wife. 

But he hurt me then and my children after 18 years later by knowingly choosing to have sex with a married and fragile/disturbed woman in 1994.


----------



## Tobyboy

PhillyGuy13 said:


> To answer your question, no, I would not reach out to this guy's ex wife to inform her that her husband or fiancé or boyfriend may or may not have had an affair with your wife that you have also since divorced 20 years ago. A guy that she has since divorced, who blew upwards of $250k in drugs. This woman has suffered enough, wouldn't you agree?


I agree with PG13. Let it go!

I do have a few questions for you. 
Whatever became of your serial cheater ex-wife?
Was the *baby* your ex aborted yours?
How are your children?
How has your life improved since getting rid of your WW?


----------



## Thor

The OM is now divorced, so there is not much reason to inform his XW of the old affair. If they were still married it would right to inform her.

The question which cannot be answered is whether the information would be helpful to her or hurtful. I tend to think it is more likely to be hurtful, so I wouldn't tell her.


----------



## SweetAndSour

manfromlamancha said:


> OK got it - I only said that because I know quite a bit about the Philippino culture and thought you might be from there. Also you mentioned going back home to Asia from a mediterranean country that doesn't observe Saturday and Sunday as the day off (hence the Middle East sprung to mind where they have Thursday and Friday). And because of the many mixtures that exist in the Philippines you get different shades and you mentioned that you looked more North European whereas she didn't.


She looks slavic too. All I was saying that considering her looks too, anything mediterranean would be too obvious in our children. They don't have it.

When in america we were always mistaken as a russian couple because of our looks and how we sound in our native language.

I am not saying these in a racist way. I am not proud of having mostly slavic genes and I don't care. I may have used the words nordic and slavic interchangeably, cause I don't care.

I and my x wife are native to a country which borders mediterranean sea but our families are immigrants from ukrainia, balkans and caucasia with probably some little turkic input, we are very mixed slavics. 

I myself don't care but I get questions about that.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Jasel said:


> Ya I also wouldn't tell his wife anything unless you can provide concrete evidence of the affair.
> 
> 
> Anyway just got through *reading this entire thread*. WS is fvcking vomit inducing.


I am sorry to let you know all of this. I hope my experience adds something positive in your life. I appreciate your patience.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Tobyboy said:


> I agree with PG13. Let it go!
> 
> I do have a few questions for you.
> Whatever became of your serial cheater ex-wife?
> Was the *baby* your ex aborted yours?
> How are your children?
> How has your life improved since getting rid of your WW?


I agree with PG13 and you. I see that I am having a reception as if I am a new comer but it is all past and I am in a different place now.

I see her almost every other day because of kids. She is taking more "me time". 

She is 45 years old. She takes advanced biking classes or sailing classes, follows the concerts and shows in our city. Anything available in the city that week for upper class well earning people who are not married with children are under her radar. 

She eats out more than she eats home, actually she doesn't have a home. She put our whole home in a storage and now has a bed in her mom's home when she needs it but she also has the opportunity to spend the night in somebody else's home and bed. And I am pretty sure that you can consult her about the hotels, spas and massage deals around our city if you need an informed and experienced opinion. She is registered in a gym. Seeing and paying for two psychiatrist simultaneously, basically for their recreational input to her life.

These are only a small part of the new things she is appearently enjoying that she didn't have when she was married with me and living with our two toddlers up until two years ago. 

She does not seem to have a solid relationship with a new man except her 15 years younger under educated, under groomed, very under everything according to her public standards f0ck body whom she exposed my kids too. 

She is a great mom when she shows up, singing to the kids, taking them to malls, buying everything they ask but then leaving them behind at my home in tears at night.

I have no chance to know now who fathered my aborted baby three years ago. I'd still raise her as mine regardless if I had the chance. That baby would only make my life better no matter what. I informed the authorities about the doctor who performed the abortion. He is pretty upset about it. I'll let you know about the result when it is available. 

My kids are effected and scarred for life especially the older one, 7 years old now. He is registered as having exceptionally high IQ and eligible for special education. But having a broken family life turns even that to a handicap, He is more avare, more sensitive, more valnurable. He is referred to a child psychologist by his teacher for being depressed and distant in the class. He still sometimes goes to bed crying quietely after saying I miss my mommy and sometimes I see him waking up crying for no appearent reason. 

My health is better, I cut down drinking to recreational levels. Most importantly I am back to work and excited about what am I working on, as before, I enjoy my work. 

Besides some other little flings, I met a 36 years old nice woman. She had no kids, never married and was aware that I have two little kids. After I said to her that I don't want to marry again, I don't plan to have more kids and I don't want to bring a step mom to my home for the next twenty years she said that we shouldn't go any further and I agreed. 

I guess I am not ready for another serious relationship yet.


----------



## SweetAndSour

Thor said:


> The OM is now divorced, so there is not much reason to inform his XW of the old affair. If they were still married it would right to inform her.
> 
> The question which cannot be answered is whether the information would be helpful to her or hurtful. I tend to think it is more likely to be hurtful, so I wouldn't tell her.


It is nice to see someone from old times, I hope you are doing fine Thor.

As I explained before I am not going to inform his life. It is too late for everybody who involved.

In fact, I guess I am going to delete that news link which identifies who is that guy (the meth guy with a doctor wife) in my post. 

As a reflex TAM is the first place that I come when I need some opinions in this issue but appearently there are not many people left here who are familiar with my story.


----------



## SweetAndSour

After 5 years since my divorce, thinking all is over, having a normal day to day life with my kids, at last, I am back. Even My TAM password was suspended after such a long absistence. I wish I was never back.

Now my covert narcissist exwife is married to someone in another country and wants to take my kids there with her to her new husband`s home.

My daughter is almost 8 and son is 11. We have fifty/fifty custody of the kids but kids stayed with me and mommy showed up only during weekends, despite all my efforts to make her spend more time with kids, taking kids to a mall for a movie and a fast food meal, before bringing them back , calling her style “fun parenting“.

I think me, my kids and,.... the new lucky...... husband of her`s are up to some serious s**t.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lawyer...now...yesterday...

If she leaves the country with them...well... possession being 9/10'ths and all.

Lawyer...now... yesterday...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## anchorwatch

I remember you. Glad to hear you finally let her go. 

Speak to a lawyer as soon as possible to stop her from taking your children out of the country, before she flees with them. 

If they have passports put them in a safe place. If they don't have passports only the custodial parent can apply for one. If you share custody, both parents must sign for approval. Notify the bureau before she tries to get passports fraudulently. 

Hopefully, she'll leave with her new OM and you'll be rid of her forever.

Best


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## SweetAndSour

I have a good lawyer who got me the fifty/fifty shared custody, through a very clever use of law and pursuing our good hearted judge in that direction. I was the second father in the country who was awarded that right. Local law awards the custody only to one parent alone, but EU law is above the local law. Some legal quirk which is not related to divorce but to children`s benefits, allowed that to happen. My lawyer also had won the first case for her own divorce, despite local law automatically awards her, the mother, full custody of children, younger than 10. She believes and acts accordingly that divorce separates parents, not the children. I am grateful to her for that.

Idea of giving parents the shared custody is letting them to continue working together for children`s good and keeping both in their lives. Judge put his trust on us that we can manage our differences and take care of children together without ending up in front of his desk again. 

I hope we don`t have to go back to court again.

I don`t expect anyone to go back and read my whole story, so I better make a clarification; although some parts of our story takes place in US, we are not in US and that other country which my wife wants our kids to take is, in fact, US of A.


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## SweetAndSour

anchorwatch said:


> I remember you. Glad to hear you finally let her go.
> 
> Speak to a lawyer as soon as possible to stop her from taking your children out of the country, before she flees with them.
> 
> If they have passports put them in a safe place. If they don't have passports only the custodial parent can apply for one. If you share custody, both parents must sign for approval. Notify the bureau before she tries to get passports fraudulently.
> 
> Hopefully, she'll leave with her new OM and you'll be rid of her forever.
> 
> Best


Thanks for your good wishes ancorwatch.

My kids already have passports and valid US visas. I took them to US without Xwife last year twice myself and Xwife can do the same without me. I have their passports in my possession for a short term solution.


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## Nucking Futs

SweetAndSour said:


> Thanks for your good wishes ancorwatch.
> 
> My kids already have passports and valid US visas. I took them to US without Xwife last year twice myself and Xwife can do the same without me. I have their passports in my possession for a short term solution.


You're in luck that the US is a signatory to the Hague Convention but don't let it get that far. Keep those passports locked up, preferably someplace secure like a bank deposit box.


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## oldtruck

Shaggy said:


> Let me guess, the baby wasn't yours? It was from her having an affair ? So she got the abortion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly this.


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