# Marriage ending after 20 years, confused, don't understand.



## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously; she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes. She never mentioned it again, nor a follow-on session. After that she applied for and found a job.

After she started working, she stopped talking to me. Not 2 words. Would come home from work, make something to eat, go upstairs to the bedroom by herself. Meantime I am sleeping on the sofa as I tend to stay up late, so as not to wake her up. 

On Christmas, she didn't come down at all. Normally we celebrate it as a family, cook dinner and/or go to Church. This year, nothing. This was really beginning to trouble me. I asked her to please speak to me over a weekend, no response. She would send me very terse 1-line e-mails that basically told me nothing.

She had a few after-hours "work events" that brought her home late, never told me where she was, who she was with, or what time she could be expected home. In short, she stopped behaving like a spouse.

The not talking part stretched to *six* months. I prayed from this lonely sofa every night, hoping for some kind of reconciliation or a softening of her heart towards me.

Her W2 form came one day in the mail, she e-mailed me asking if I wanted to do the taxes jointly or separately, and in her opinion, it "didn't matter". Well, of course it matters. On March 1st, after asking her for a month, she informed me she would file her taxes separately.

At that point, I blew up at her in e-mail. Told her she could do what she wants, if she wanted a divorce to just be plain about it, I would not be giving her 1500 a month anymore for spending money, etc. In addition to the 1500, despite that she had a job, I pay all the expenses on our home.

As a result of my angry e-mails, (she says now), she will file for divorce, which she has. 

Dunno what to think. I still love her, no one could replace her in my heart, she's been my best friend for 20 years, now she shows me complete and utter contempt.

I've been a good father, a good son-in-law to her parents, God knows I am not perfect, but I believe myself to be a decent man and a good person.

As a husband? Hmmm. Reactive, sometimes selfish, sometimes tight with money, sometimes she has to nag me to do things, got a little lazy, hmmm, never cheated or had an affair, never laid hands on my family, stable, steady provider, go to Church as a family every week.

Apparently, this was not enough, or never was. I don't know why she changed her mind about me so late in the game. 

This is just a suffering hell right now with no hope. 

At least, it's helpful to write it all out.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

sudden_divorce said:


> My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously; she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes. She never mentioned it again, nor a follow-on session. After that she applied for and found a job.
> 
> After she started working, she stopped talking to me. Not 2 words. Would come home from work, make something to eat, go upstairs to the bedroom by herself. Meantime I am sleeping on the sofa as I tend to stay up late, so as not to wake her up.
> 
> ...


The way you've described it right from sentence #1, you've been a bystander, observing your wife, scratching your head and thinking "huh!".

SUDDEN divorce? I see the 2x4's coming...


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

She basically told you a year ago she was making plans. You should have been too.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

sudden_divorce said:


> she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes.


So she explained what she was unhappy about, and you just put your fingers in your ears and heard "complaining"? And now you "dont understand" why she wants out? If you'd listened, you'd know. 


sudden_divorce said:


> I've been a good father, a good son-in-law to her parents, God knows I am not perfect, but I believe myself to be a decent man and a good person.
> 
> As a husband? Hmmm. Reactive, sometimes selfish, sometimes tight with money, sometimes she has to nag me to do things, got a little lazy, hmmm, never cheated or had an affair, never laid hands on my family, stable, steady provider, go to Church as a family every week.


Yeah, apart from the deafness, you seem like a good guy.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I could see my ex writing something like this.

He was a bury your head in the sand and play dumb guy who was so conflict avoidant that he would only talk to me in emails and even then he said very little.

Also went to counseling a few times where he participated minimally, commented that I must like being there, and would probably also tell you that it was just me complaining about him. Well maybe if he paid attention and actually participated it might have been different, but he had no interest in "hearing me complain".

I was accused of getting harder and harder to make happy and of course he had NO idea what the problem was. I mean, he did pay the mortgage.....

Does any of this sound like you? Because I'm having a hard time getting past blowing up at your wife in an email.


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## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> I could see my ex writing something like this.
> 
> He was a bury your head in the sand and play dumb guy who was so conflict avoidant that he would only talk to me in emails and even then he said very little.
> 
> ...


Did you tell him what the problem was? Were you still communicating?
No, I didn't bury my head in the sand, but I did give her a lot of space because I did fear making things worse.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sudden_divorce said:


> Did you tell him what the problem was? Were you still communicating?
> No, I didn't bury my head in the sand, but I did give her a lot of space because I did fear making things worse.


For years, he just covered his ears. He was unfortunately the child of an alcoholic and was terrified of anything he found remotely uncomfortable. Nobody could talk to him about anything beyond sports and the weather, and the powerless feeling he had over his inability to deal with the things that bothered him turned him into a nasty passive aggressive guy that would play dumb. He was terrified of not being seen as a "nice guy" and he had an ex gf on the side but I didn't even know about that until the end of the marriage.

He also thought if he ignored everything and played dumb it would go away. He even said that he hoped I'd eventually come around if he left me alone.

Might your wife have seen your giving her space as a refusal to acknowledge or deal with anything?


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Her filing for divorce shouldn't have come as a shock, given that she was living a separate life in the same house and didn't want to engage at all. I'm curious about the backstory. What caused her to become so sour to begin with? Based on the limited context provided, it was an abrupt change of personality and when she got that job, she was done with you.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

So what were her complaints when you went to your one counseling session?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Speaking as a husband there is more to being a husband then just being a decent human being who brings in a good salary. She was looking for an emotional connection with you. When she didn't come down on Christmas you should have taken that as a sign that the end was near. I am not saying that you aren't a good guy but it seems like you were really not in touch with your wife's emotional connection to you, and she was telling you pretty clearly that this was not good enough.

Now there may be someone else by now, and if there is that sucks, but the time for this post was a year ago.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

All I can say is that you stood there, just wishing and praying for all that time instead of grabbing the bull by the horns, you hanged your balls by the door, while waiting in prayers and wistful thinking. Did you at least understand what her complaints about you and the relationship were? Did you actually comprehended? Or you just were there?

Never your pride and and self respect coming to the forefront and acknowledging that she didn't want you and you taking the initiative from the beginning. If my wife were to behave the way she did to you for the first couple of weeks, she wouldn't had to ask me for anything, I would had served her, immediately. Take that as a fact. I mean if there were not legit reasons for her to dump you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You obviously weren’t listening or willing to change anything when she stated her grievances in counseling.

that sealed the deal - she knew she couldn’t live with you anymore after that - hence the long term changes.

every relationship has a beginning and an end - yours ended that day in therapy. She’s shown you with her actions it’s over… best to accept that and move forward now.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Nothing sudden about it. You missed what her actions have been saying for awhile.


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## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> Might your wife have seen your giving her space as a refusal to acknowledge or deal with anything?


Yes, it's possible she could have viewed things that way; but she never said. Six months is an awful long time to not check in with your spouse of 20 years? When I asked her about this later, all she said was "I was in a fog". 

Yes, I am equally to blame, but I did ask her by e-mail to sit down with me on a weekend and discuss.

My conclusion, she wanted the Divorce, pushed my buttons, and when I broke, that was the catalyst for her to file, maybe?

Not very fair, in my view, but okay.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sudden_divorce said:


> Yes, it's possible she could have viewed things that way; but she never said. Six months is an awful long time to not check in with your spouse of 20 years? When I asked her about this later, all she said was "I was in a fog".
> 
> Yes, I am equally to blame, but I did ask her by e-mail to sit down with me on a weekend and discuss.
> 
> ...


Let me ask you something.

Do you think it's normal for a person to communicate about personal issues with their spouse through email? This is your wife.....you don't send emails. You take her to dinner, look her in the eyes, and talk to her. You don't ignore divorce talk, write off one counseling session as her complaining, ignore it further, then send emails. No wonder she's disconnected.

If you don't understand this then you need serious individual counseling. You seem to lack the ability to make real emotional connections....there's nothing sudden about this.

I was married to you and your conclusion is wrong. If it makes you feel better then ok but you're going to have a difficult time keeping a relationship in the future. Get some counseling now.


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## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> Speaking as a husband there is more to being a husband then just being a decent human being who brings in a good salary. She was looking for an emotional connection with you. When she didn't come down on Christmas you should have taken that as a sign that the end was near. I am not saying that you aren't a good guy but it seems like you were really not in touch with your wife's emotional connection to you, and she was telling you pretty clearly that this was not good enough.
> 
> Now there may be someone else by now, and if there is that sucks, but the time for this post was a year ago.


For years, she would make my lunch and stand on the steps waving to me as I drove off to work. Words to me on B-day and Father's Day cards:
'You are a wonderful husband'
'I want to be there for you when you need me'.
'Look forward to the future with you'
'Enjoy being a father of two kids'
'Appreciate all you do for us'

None of this is from a long time ago. It gave me full trust and confidence in my marriage. This time last year, things started to go wrong. No, I don't see any evidence of someone else involved. But your right, a year ago this time, possibly I could have saved this.


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## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> Let me ask you something.
> 
> Do you think it's normal for a person to communicate about personal issues with their spouse through email? This is your wife.....you don't send emails. You take her to dinner, look her in the eyes, and talk to her. You don't ignore divorce talk, write off one counseling session as her complaining, ignore it further, then send emails. No wonder she's disconnected.
> 
> ...


You may be 100% right. 
Yet, I couldn't get her to sit down and talk with me. 

This is a 20-year marriage, not something that started out as a mistake and was over quick. 

We've been thru a lot together. Ok, she has gone on a different path and I don't completely understand why and people in here just keep repeating over and over that it's all my fault, and that I missed the signs, and regardless that's true or not, it's not helpful and I just ignore those comments.

If I am so terrible, how could she have stayed 20 years with me?

She never explained to me what changed, and why now. I have no insight into that.

If I got caught cheating or had an affair, ok, there is a reason, a rationale for a divorce. 
If I were a hard-core drinker, gambler, drug user, abuser, ok.

No, I am none of those things, but whatever I am, I'm not enough for her anymore.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are wrong. You said she complained for 30 minutes during that one counseling session.

what exactly were her complaints? Be specific!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

People stay in long marriages for many reasons. Mine was more than twice as long as yours when I ended it. Only she knows why she’s done.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Beach123 said:


> You are wrong. You said she complained for 30 minutes during that one counseling session.
> 
> what exactly were her complaints? Be specific!


From what he has described of her behavior and actions, I think it would be safe to assume that she has found a replacement.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I don’t know if that’s true - I think she just got fed up and wanted out.
But the OP hasn’t been specific about her complaints.


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## sudden_divorce (5 mo ago)

BlueWoman said:


> So what were her complaints when you went to your one counseling session?


She said her point-of-view changed. No further detail.
Said she thinks my ego is too much for her?
Did research and believes possibly I am a covert narcissist?
Feels guilt over something. 
Couldn't take the guilt (?).
Her heart feels exhausted.

She gives these statements but no ... nothing really solid for me to cling to ... ok, I can believe she feels this way, but why, after all these years ... she kept this bottled up inside her...?

Any relationship is always compromise; no two people are perfect.
Look, I don't judger her, don't accuse her. 
Just want to understand. 

If this is over, and it sure looks like it, I need closure too, yes?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Yep, it’s over. You get closure - since you will be divorced. That is closure.

as a woman - I will say that any man with a huge ego is an instant turn off. Big time.
You didn’t listen to what she said with the idea that YOU intended to change. That’s a problem. And since she determined you wouldn’t change - she likely decided she has had more than enough.

I’ve seen marriages that lasted 20…30 years… and the ones that consistently ended? The ones where spouses resorted to emailing each other instead of resolving concerns face to face. It’s an avoiding tactic - used especially when one spouse doesn’t feel safe - or one spouse doesn’t feel heard.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You’re probably not going to get the closure you’d like — very few do and there are usually unanswered questions regardless. My suggestion is to accept that she’s done and start making plans for what comes next.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I could see my ex writing something like this.
> 
> He was a bury your head in the sand and play dumb guy who was so conflict avoidant that he would only talk to me in emails and even then he said very little.
> 
> ...


For a moment there I swore you were describing my ex-wife.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

sudden_divorce said:


> If I got caught cheating or had an affair, ok, there is a reason, a rationale for a divorce.
> If I were a hard-core drinker, gambler, drug user, abuser, ok.


We get it. You're not a bad guy. 
Maybe just not good at relationships. 
And believe me, from what you say, it sounds like she is equally unskilled at emotional connection. 

You said you came here because you didn't understand what happened. We're trying to explain it.


> people in here just keep repeating over and over that it's all my fault, and that I missed the signs


Well, several of us have reached similar conclusions. 


> and regardless that's true or not, it's not helpful and I just ignore those comments.


*Exactly! *Ignoring anything you don't like to hear, IS the problem. 

So is there any way in which we can help you?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

sudden_divorce said:


> Said she thinks my ego is too much for her?
> Did research and believes possibly I am a covert narcissist?


If she said that, it's worth considering.



> Feels guilt over something.
> Couldn't take the guilt (?).
> Her heart feels exhausted.


That doesn't sound good.



> She gives these statements but no ... nothing really solid for me to cling to


She is perhaps walking a difficult line of trying to explain it to you without triggering you.



> Any relationship is always compromise; no two people are perfect.


That is the truth!!



> If this is over, and it sure looks like it, I need closure too, yes?


You may not get it. How old are you?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Beach123 said:


> I’ve seen marriages that lasted 20…30 years… and the ones that consistently ended? The ones where spouses resorted to emailing each other instead of resolving concerns face to face.


Yes. (And text is in some ways even worse). 

In my younger days, I was in a relationship where I ended up trying to write to her, because she just blanked anything I said to her face to face. Women can be just as guilty of blanking as men, although perhaps not as often. Needless to say, my attempt to use writing was equally blanked. 

It's a two-sided problem, and not easy to get out of. Some people entirely in a box.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If she feels guilty, then she might have decided to end the marriage without having to own her guilt.

You have children. How is she treating then?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She doesn't speak to you for 6 months and you still love her?  
I'll be the first one to bring up the A word, then...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Deaf ears don’t hear the horn right before they are hit by the bus.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She could be a little girl who cried wolf? "You upset my good friend Mary. Divorce!" "You didn't take the trash out. Divorce!"


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Deaf ears don’t hear the horn right before they are hit by the bus.


Something has changed. You are not aware or not advising here what. 
Have you checked her whereabouts when not with you? Have you checked her phone use (and/or looked for the ubiquitous 'burner-phone'?) 
Have you considered getting some sanity check on your willingness to accept in-house-separation for six months? I suggest you visit/get some
"counciling." and NOT "marriage counseling"

Are you not sharing information about yourself? Stuck in front of TV tiling silver bullets? Way out of physical shape? Sloppy habits around the house?

Aside: I had an apartment room-mate for a week. He would take a shower and drop his sweaty running suit on the bathroom floor and LEAVE it. After a
few days (curious to see when he would pick it up) - it was still there. Turned out he was a real slob - mother had done everything for him up into his early 20s.

Do you have any friends that are aware of your situation? Have you asked them for a sanity check? How about your relatives? Hers too?

You have children? What is their assessment?

Do either of you have drug problem?

Way down the list of "what changed?" would be HER having some kind of physical illness or "mental" illness.


Aside #2:

Visited a work-friend one day. Recently married. Bought a house etc.
When visit occurred, he had turned the attached garage into his "hobby room." His hobby was radio-controlled model planes of which he had several.
Do you know how much one of those things cost to make or buy? Next - the DINING ROOM in the house. HE PUT IN A POOL TABLE! Standard size
slate covered with standard green felt and very nice varnished wood construction.

I thought to myself - this marriage won't last a year. (can you guess why?) - and I was right. She bailed on him. I hope her name wasn't on the mortgage.

OP, do you get my drift? 


“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is it possible she is the type of person whose relationships have a shelflife? A serial monogamist?

You might not be the problem. She might have changed the history of your marriage to justify her stance?

Or filtering the marriage to produce only bad results?

"I remember that on July 1st 2012 you upset me by blah, blah, blah."


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

sudden_divorce said:


> Ok, she has gone on a different path and I don't completely understand why and people in here just keep repeating over and over that it's all my fault, and that I missed the signs, and regardless that's true or not, it's not helpful and I just ignore those comments.
> 
> If I am so terrible, how could she have stayed 20 years with me?
> 
> She never explained to me what changed, and why now. I have no insight into that.


You went to the counseling session, didn't like what you heard, and dismissed it all as garbage. If you had picked up on just one thing and tried to fix it, you might have had something to build on. Apparently, you weren't willing to do that. Nobody wants a partner who wants to coast through marriage. Things being good enough for 20 years doesn't cut it. 

This marriage is over. Each of you will have to build a new life without the other. She is very eager. You seemingly just want to shoot off more and more e-mails thinking you'll get through. We're all trying to help you, but if you just want to bury your head in the sand, you'll just keep getting the same things in life that you've been getting. Definition of insanity...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

sudden_divorce said:


> For years, she would make my lunch and stand on the steps waving to me as I drove off to work. Words to me on B-day and Father's Day cards:
> 'You are a wonderful husband'
> 'I want to be there for you when you need me'.
> 'Look forward to the future with you'
> ...


I'm sorry OP this has to be brutal for you. I would check your phone bill. There very well may be someone else. This is not uncommon on how this works. Lots of people go for the shinny and new option.

Besides that the story you just told, what would be her story about you and what you did for her?

Unfortunately lets assume that there is no one else, now maybe there is and I think it's unwise to just assume without checking, but lets say there isn't anyone then she was trying to tell you that she was unhappy. Sounds like you were dismissive of that and it slowly caused her to grow disillusioned. That's what happens, eventually she probably became resentful.

I think some men in your generation, which I am going to assume is a little older then me or around my same age, operate from the rules for being a good husband from the past before society changed and gave women the opportunity to support themselves. Once that happened, bringing home the bacon wasn't enough anymore. They expect more.

You still need to be a provider but you also need to be an emotional provider, which is a different skillset all together. Unfortunately a lot of men are not trained in that skillset an that causes their marriages to struggle. The wives have a set of expectations that the husband are very much dismissive of because it was never taught to be important, and they were never told how to do this. It's easier to dismiss it as nonsense. Lot's of men may read this post now and think the same thing, I say do so at your own risk. My feeling is it's really not that hard to do but you have to teach yourself to be emotionally intelligent which for many is a learned skill, and even for those who have it somewhat intuitively you can always refine the ability, and refine it specifically around your wife.

This may sound crass to some, but this is not that much different then learning the nuances around your car if you have sports car for instance. It's a lot of paying very close attention at what actions makes her seem to feel close to you, safe, excited, horny, etc... It also involves listening. Once you get both down you can hear what she is asking for and put into practice the actions that will give her what she wants. Again, it's still problem solving which lots of guys understand. It's also OK if you just ask once and a while, but don't make her tell you repeatedly.

At first you may be uncomfortable, and you may not be the most romantic for instance, whatever it is, but your wife may not be as sexy as Jennifer Lopez either, it's the effort that matters. And this also doesn't make you weak or whatever nonsense we have been taught and you don't have to become some touchy-feely type guy if that is not your thing, that is not who I am. Frankly I believe emotionally intelligent (not emotional) is the highest form of masculinity. Having the ability to be that without being overtly emotional but strong is what all men should strive for. This is much closer to who men were in the past before this whole macho, don't show your emotions, men are neanderthals thing showed up in the culture of the last 100 years.

If she is not cheating then maybe you can court her again and fix it. Not sure, assuming there is no one else she will soon find out the grass isn't greener. If there is someone else just move on because that is the difference between leaving a marriage and forcefully killing it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In what ways do you think your ego is "big"?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sudden_divorce said:


> You may be 100% right.
> Yet, I couldn't get her to sit down and talk with me.
> 
> This is a 20-year marriage, not something that started out as a mistake and was over quick.
> ...


So as @Laurentium asked, what is it we can help you with?

You can't just ignore things you don't like...that's what got you here. And you don't get to unilaterally decide what level of contribution is enough in a marriage, otherwise guys in sexless marriages would have to accept that she cooks and cleans so isn't that enough? Your wide decided that this isn't working for her.

Understanding your role will help you grow, however not everyone is interested in growths. My ex wasn't.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I'm sorry OP this has to be brutal for you. I would check your phone bill. There very well may be someone else. This is not uncommon on how this works. Lots of people go for the shinny and new option.
> 
> Besides that the story you just told, what would be her story about you and what you did for her?
> 
> ...


True she could have someone else now.

But does it make sense that she had one when she asked for counseling? People in affairs don't usually seek out counseling.

I suppose it's good to know though so he knows if courting her might stand a chance.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

sudden_divorce said:


> You may be 100% right.
> Yet, I couldn't get her to sit down and talk with me.
> 
> This is a 20-year marriage, not something that started out as a mistake and was over quick.
> ...


Stop wondering and worrrying about it, get a divorce and move on. Nothing you can do will fix this. Once the switch is flipped, it’s done.

btw, You STILL haven’t listed her complaints. You are indeed hard to communicate woth


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> You STILL haven’t listed her complaints. You are indeed hard to communicate woth


Thank you! This is what I'm finding so frustrating about this thread. He posted some general stuff that she told him, but nothing specific at all. Maybe he's too busy emailing the wife to answer our questions. OP, if you want us to help you, at least meet us halfway!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Nn


sudden_divorce said:


> My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously; she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes. She never mentioned it again, nor a follow-on session. After that she applied for and found a job.
> 
> After she started working, she stopped talking to me. Not 2 words. Would come home from work, make something to eat, go upstairs to the bedroom by herself. Meantime I am sleeping on the sofa as I tend to stay up late, so as not to wake her up.
> 
> ...


she baited you into taking actions to make you look like the bad guy. She checked out way before this. Most likely she also has a paramour on the side. Give her what she wants and move on.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Op you sound like you think this is sudden. What little you describe of your wife… it sounds like she tried to be a very good partner. And if she’s calling you a narcissist then it sounds like she didn’t get much in return. I mean you gave her money. But how did you treat her? She made your lunch waved you off to work everyday and let you know she loved you. 

Did you ask her each day how HER day was? Did you take the kids and give her a break some nights or weekends? Did you do things that let her know you loved her?

Look up walk away wife. They stick it out until they can’t anymore or until their children reach a certain age. I don’t think she’s cheating though maybe during the last few months or so. Many women who cheat to leave look for a partner to hop to. But she got a job. It tells me she was looking to be independent. She either didn’t like how you controlled the money or she wanted to prepare for the divorce.

And 1500 a month is good spending money UNLESS that’s supposed to be a household budget and include food clothes and such for how many people?

Either way I think she’s done. I think she tried letting you know she wasn’t happy. I think you didn’t listen. I think she made plans to leave.

I’m not sure why you are shocked. We are strangers on the internet and only have your side and we can see it.

What can we do to help you now? Pretty sure there is no turning this one around.


I would like to know what you did staying up so late you couldn’t go to bed with your wife. Was it porn or video games or live chats?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> True she could have someone else now.
> 
> But does it make sense that she had one when she asked for counseling? People in affairs don't usually seek out counseling.
> 
> I suppose it's good to know though so he knows if courting her might stand a chance.


There have been several cases over the years that I have been on TAM when a husband or wife has asked for marital counselling. But forgot to mention they were cheating. Didn't even tell the counsellor.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Most likely, there was someone else. Maybe not a full blown affair, but someone who diverted her attention. And once that happened, counseling wasn’t going to go anywhere productive. From the little you share, it sounds like sure, you could have made improvements. No one is perfect. But sounds like she just wanted out and I’m thinking that there were marital issues coupled with another person in the wings.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Most likely, there was someone else. Maybe not a full blown affair, but someone who diverted her attention. And once that happened, counseling wasn’t going to go anywhere productive. From the little you share, it sounds like sure, you could have made improvements. No one is perfect. But sounds like she just wanted out and I’m thinking that there were marital issues coupled with another person in the wings.


I'm guessing you haven't dealt with someone like this. The "no one is perfect: thing can be used to excuse all kinds of things. The "must be someone else" attitude is an excellent way to dismiss anything that bothersd her. 

The guy described one counseling session as her complaining so clearly he was uninterested in anything that bothered her.

My ex was exactly like this. Not only did I not have someone else...he did. I didn't actually know that until the end...I just knew I had years of dealing with a guy who buried his head, played dumb, and the little bit of talking to me he did was through emails. 

If you'd ever dealt with this you might not be do quick to write everything off to "oh well she must have someone else".


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm guessing you haven't dealt with someone like this. The "no one is perfect: thing can be used to excuse all kinds of things. The "must be someone else" attitude is an excellent way to dismiss anything that bothersd her.
> 
> The guy described one counseling session as her complaining so clearly he was uninterested in anything that bothered her.
> 
> ...


I hear you and you could be completely right about the situation. I’m not feeling like we have enough info to go on, and my comment wasn’t to say that she found someone so that’s why the marriage seemed off. That’s why I added that there were marital issues likely (that he may have ignored) and she may have found someone. Not all marriages end because there’s someone else I know, but many do. People often are afraid to leave without someone else to go to, but certainly, that’s not everyone.

I don’t think it’s fair in the same token to blame the OP for the demise of his marriage either without more context. Most of the time, we are giving our best guesses based on the info given.

As an aside, I don’t write off everything as “oh well they found someone else.” But, it is common. Many threads on TAM have shown that to be true - an OP posts a thread realizing that he/she should have been more attentive, better spouse etc only to learn soon enough that their soon to be ex had a “friend” on the side. This doesn’t dismiss that the OP couldn’t have been a better spouse, but it might not be the only thing that led to a marriage ending.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> I hear you and you could be completely right about the situation. I’m not feeling like we have enough info to go on, and my comment wasn’t to say that she found someone so that’s why the marriage seemed off. That’s why I added that there were marital issues likely (that he may have ignored) and she may have found someone. Not all marriages end because there’s someone else I know, but many do. People often are afraid to leave without someone else to go to, but certainly, that’s not everyone.
> 
> I don’t think it’s fair in the same token to blame the OP for the demise of his marriage either without more context. Most of the time, we are giving our best guesses based on the info given.


I understand, but he's acrually provided a lot of context. Talk of divorce that he didn't take seriously, one counseling session (asked for by her) that he dismisses as her complaining, her skipping Christmas with him which he ignores, him "blowing up" at her in email and basically ignoring her to "avoid making things worse".

And he's said that posters here are telling him it's his fault and he doesn’t find that helpful (translation....like all things unpleasant he doesn't want to hear it) and is ignoring it. But hey...he paid bills and nobody's perfect.

These are all hallmarks of someone extremely disconnected and unapproachable. As I said, I dealt with this and the things he says could've been written by my ex. And usually posters paint themselves in the best light so I can only imagine what she'd day. This kind of person is soul sucking to deal with.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I understand, but he's acrually provided a lot of context. Talk of divorce that he didn't take seriously, one counseling session (asked for by her) that he dismisses as her complaining, her skipping Christmas with him which he ignores, him "blowing up" at her in email and basically ignoring her to "avoid making things worse".
> 
> And he's said that posters here are telling him it's his fault and he doesn’t find that helpful (translation....like all things unpleasant he doesn't want to hear it) and is ignoring it. But hey...he paid bills and nobody's perfect.
> 
> These are all hallmarks of someone extremely disconnected and unapproachable. As I said, I dealt with this and the things he says could've been written by my ex. And usually posters paint themselves in the best light so I can only imagine what she'd day. This kind of person is soul sucking to deal with.


True, you could be right and I appreciate your view. I think what strikes me then, (and I don’t think this is the only thread I’ve seen this happen in), but the OP feeling “confused” as if blindsided, when in reality, the signs were there.

I’ve read a few similar threads and in some cases, there was someone else but what the underlying theme was in all of them (someone involved or not) is that the OP didn’t see it coming. I’m always a little amazed that people can’t see their marriages crumbling before it’s too late. But I know that happens… a lot. Thanks for sharing a bit more because you’ve helped me gain another perspective.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> True, you could be right and I appreciate your view. I think what strikes me then, (and I don’t think this is the only thread I’ve seen this happen in), but the OP feeling “confused” as if blindsided, when in reality, the signs were there.
> 
> I’ve read a few similar threads and in some cases, there was someone else but what the underlying theme was in all of them (someone involved or not) is that the OP didn’t see it coming. I’m always a little amazed that people can’t see their marriages crumbling before it’s too late. But I know that happens… a lot. Thanks for sharing a bit more because you’ve helped me gain another perspective.


I appreciate the engagement on your part.

Many of these posters do know their marriage isn't doing well, they just don't think their spouse is going anywhere. With my marriage we had an established dynamic (that was partly my fault as I participated) where everything was structured around my ex's head burying and refusing to deal with anything. I suspect that's what happened here.

Over the years I got more and more tired of walking on eggshells and dealing with my ex ignoring uncomfortable things and playing dumb. He absolutely was blind sided when I ieft him but that was because I wrecked the established dynamic.....the dynamic that worked for him. He didn't think I was going anywhere, but he did know I was unhappy. But thay wasn't to be acknowledged because it made him uncomfortable.

So I'm sure OP was blindsided but only because he didn't expect her to go anywhere.

The one thing that's missing here is the final catalyst. There's usually something that pushes the spouse over the edge.....in my case it was finding out he'd had an ex on the side our entire 13 years together. 

i wonder what OP's wife's catalyst was. Another man? I guess that's possible, but this house has been burning for years while OP watched from outside and just avoided throwing grease so it wouldn't get worse but refused to call the fire department.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sudden_divorce said:


> For years, she would make my lunch and stand on the steps waving to me as I drove off to work. Words to me on B-day and Father's Day cards:
> 'You are a wonderful husband'
> 'I want to be there for you when you need me'.
> 'Look forward to the future with you'
> ...


She gave you the benefit of the doubt. She put a positive spin on it. She thought she could love you into changing into a better husband. She couldn't. You wouldn't even listen.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You waited too late to care.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

sudden_divorce said:


> *My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously.....*


And this, dear man, is why you find yourself in the place you're in today.

And since you saw marriage counseling as one big "pick on me" session and didn't want to go back, you killed any possibility of getting things back on track.

I chuckle when I see men posting, "my wife asked for a divorce out of the blue" or like you, claiming that their wife said she wants a divorce and he "didn't take her seriously." My point is, it's very rarely out 'out of the blue,' it's usually the last resort when they feel they've tried every which way but can't do it alone.

It's good for YOU that she found a job but I have the feeling that was just part of her getting her ducks in a row after she decided this was a dead end. I feel terrible about how she's been freezing you out; you don't deserve that disrespect, regardless of how badly the marriage may be in her perception. You haven't done anything so egregious that she can justify acting like you're a non-entity. Not from what I read in your initial post, anyway.

Take that $1500 a month you were giving her and start building your *own* nest egg. Problem is, everything will be split down the middle come divorce time so maybe you need to start buying yourself things you'll need for when you live on your own, rather than letting that cash continue to mount up in the bank, you know? Just a thought.

I'm sorry you find yourself here, OP. Truth is, when a woman is done, she's done.

ETA: Now that I've read more in this thread, I too am inclined to believe the wife has met someone at her new job. It's painfully obvious.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

My money says she’s having and been having an affair for sometime. She was still upset/miserable with you after the marriage counseling session whether it was justified or not. She then got a job, probably met somebody and it has snowballed from there. Your “mean” emails and mentioning divorce gave her the excuse to finally file and not be the bad guy. Her total emotional and communication disconnect and the late hour work functions are huge red flags. That’s my 2 cents.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

OP, you did not just "blow up" at her one time only through an email. You threatened her with money. What if she wanted a job because, crazy thought, she wanted a job? That simply being an extension of you wasn't very fulfilling regardless of how good a provider you are or how much spending money she has? Clearly it upset the dynamic you are used to. If it is a good paying job to boot you could have, I don't know, encouraged her, told her how proud you were of her.

My marriage was 20+ years. I was a SAH homescooling MOM AND Wife and there was nothing left over for me, and no one appreciated me for me. Only that I kept things running how he liked. My job, when I found one, was low paying. It did not save my family from financial ruin. But people liked me for me and I was paid to do it. That job was worth it's weight in gold


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

So, OP, you were a little bit stingy with money, as you mentioned. 

Then she got a job. 

Why?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife has used the divorce word for years. Eventually, for my sanity, I chose to ignore it.

Examples of her usage are:

"You didn't do such-and-such a job in the way I would have done it. It's no good! We'll have to divorce!"

She asked (well, told) me to arrange funding for the conservatory she wanted. Then when it was built she denied she had ever wanted a conservatory, said it was me imposing a conservatory on her and then said "It's no good! We'll have to divorce!"

I eventually concluded that my wife is reliving the arguments of her parents.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife has used the divorce word for years. Eventually, for my sanity, I chose to ignore it.
> 
> Examples of her usage are:
> 
> ...


Your wife is a unique case.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I chuckle when I see men posting, "my wife asked for a divorce out of the blue" ... My point is, it's very rarely out 'out of the blue,' it's usually the last resort


This. Except for me it's no chuckling matter.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Your wife is a unique case.


Yeah. But perhaps not as unique as might be hoped?

There are many people suffering from conditions (ADHD, Asperger's, etc) that are undiagnosed, making it hard for their spouses or family members to be able to help them.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. But perhaps not as unique as might be hoped?
> 
> There are many people suffering from conditions (ADHD, Asperger's, etc) that are undiagnosed, making it hard for their spouses or family members to be able to help them.


Quite possible.

This guy seems like he might be among them....total inability to actually deal with anything uncomfortable


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Quite possible.
> 
> This guy seems like he might be among them....total inability to actually deal with anything uncomfortable


That's a very good thought.

@sudden_divorce are you or your wife on the Autistic Spectrum, by any chance?


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

sudden_divorce said:


> My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously; she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes. She never mentioned it again, nor a follow-on session. After that she applied for and found a job.
> 
> After she started working, she stopped talking to me. Not 2 words. Would come home from work, make something to eat, go upstairs to the bedroom by herself. Meantime I am sleeping on the sofa as I tend to stay up late, so as not to wake her up.
> 
> ...


She had contempt for you. It's over, read John gottmans marriage books, subject four horses of the appopcalypse in marriage. In no certain terms she is telling you to get out. Stop being a simp, divorce her but. She won't respect you until you do, pull the trigger with preceeding, get assets in order, send her to her mother's house, don't leave house until divorce is over, she has a man lined up dude. Hypergammy. Move on, before you are ruined financially and mentally.
Get some marbles and show her they are large.
Stop being a wuss


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## Peanutbutter (Jul 21, 2011)

sudden_divorce said:


> My wife started using the 'divorce' word last year. I didn't take it seriously; she requested marriage counseling and we did one session which was basically her complaining and judging me for 30 minutes. She never mentioned it again, nor a follow-on session. After that she applied for and found a job.
> 
> After she started working, she stopped talking to me. Not 2 words. Would come home from work, make something to eat, go upstairs to the bedroom by herself. Meantime I am sleeping on the sofa as I tend to stay up late, so as not to wake her up.
> 
> ...



You sound so much like my husband 🤦‍♀️ (I told him I needed to talk to him, maybe 5 times already, and he has been avoiding that request and carrying on as if I never said anything at all and this was 2 months or so ago), so please don't take it too personally if I sound a little harsh.
Why didn't you sit down to talk in these 6 months?!! Why didn't you ask for another session with the therapist?
You say you don't want to get divorced but still it sounds like nothing was done at all for 6 months!! Maybe she didn't 'just' change her mind, maybe you guys have had some issues since a while and she finally just got fedup?
_she's been my best friend for 20 years, now she shows me complete and utter contempt_. I mean, it's been 6 months of passive indifference towards the issues of the relationship, wouldn't you be filled with contempt too?
If you really want to save the relationship why not give it one last try by initiating a conversation of if there is anything you both can do to try to start saving the relationship?
Good luck I guess?


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## walkout wife (Mar 1, 2013)

Walk out wife.....she's done. She's tried everything to make it work. Nothing has changed so she's hardened her heart and moved on. Can't say that I blame her

..


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Best course of action. Let her go.


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## Akeath (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm sorry, but I think she'd decided on the divorce long ago. The couple's therapy was likely a last ditch attempt to lay out the problems she felt needed to be fixed in order for the marriage to continue. She apparently wasn't clear enough that that's what it was. I've read that a lot of times couple therapy fails because people only do it as a last ditch effort after things are already so bad they aren't willing to put the time and effort in to fix them, and I think that's the case here. Her mindset was likely, "I'm done trying, but I'll make one last effort to tell him what's wrong with the marriage and see if he's willing to put in more work to fix those things. If he doesn't take the initiative to work on changing, then this marriage is over and I'll put my energy in getting my ducks in a row for divorce rather than putting any more effort into a failed marriage." The other things that happened after the couples counseling session - getting a job, withdrawing emotionally - were things she did in preparation for being on her own. She wanted to save enough to support herself and be independent so she wasn't destitute once she left, thus the job. She wanted to withdraw emotionally rather than putting any further effort or love into a marriage she saw as already dead. That way it would hurt less when she actually made the divorce formal. But you haven't had a real, live marriage for awhile, right? You hardly even speak to each other, let alone share emotional intimacy that's one of the foundations of a marriage. You don't share a bed anymore. I don't know whether she also decided to setup another relationship to go into or not, but even if she didn't that doesn't change that to her the marriage already died the day the counseling didn't do what she's decided was necessary for her to stay in the marriage. She's had all the time since to come to terms with things and prepare herself for life after the divorce. You, on the other hand, feel blindsided. It's normal to go through different stages of grief for such a big, life changing thing. And denial is one of the stages of grief. I don't think the email exchange was the straw that broke the camel's back or anything. She'd decided on this course of action some time ago, and was just waiting for an appropriate time to break it to you. Perhaps she needed the boost of anger to get her to the point she could say it to your face. Rather than pulling the trigger in cold blood, so to speak. But if you hadn't given her that boost of anger on the email, another flash point would have boiled over and revealed the state of things.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Lots of guys said it “was out of the blue”. But truth be told, the wife had told them many, many times there were issues and the husband just ignored it. It took the hammer to the head (separation/divorce) to get their attention.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Just because you didn’t care until you thought it would affect your wallet doesn’t make it “out of the blue.” Just saying.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Just because you didn’t care until you thought it would affect your wallet doesn’t make it “out of the blue.” Just saying.


You do not know this guy and that is not at all helpful…. But then again, you’re not really interested in helping him.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> You do not know this guy and that is not at all helpful…. But then again, you’re not really interested in helping him.


I don't know. Sometimes being blunt about a situation can be helpful IF the person who is requesting help really wants to hear it. I have not always liked what people on TAM have said to me. But I need honesty sometimes. My closest friends love me. It's like being in an echo chamber. I need people to push me sometimes. I agree with Texas mom. As long as the wife had no job and he gave her spending money she should be happy and frankly thank her lucky stars he supported her. At least that was the impression I got.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Google "Walk Away Wife" and you will get a lot of answers.


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## Hazel6 (4 mo ago)

Hi, i started going through matrimonial settlement after my husband cheated and betrayed me for numerous times within 25 years married. Since then i experience self doubt if i did the right thing or maybe theres a way of saving our marriage. Pls advice me or support me


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Hazel6 said:


> Hi, i started going through matrimonial settlement after my husband cheated and betrayed me for numerous times within 25 years married. Since then i experience self doubt if i did the right thing or maybe theres a way of saving our marriage. Pls advice me or support me


Open your own discussion and you will get more advice...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> My wife has used the divorce word for years. Eventually, for my sanity, I chose to ignore it.
> 
> Examples of her usage are:
> 
> ...


MattMatt, what would your wife do if you actually called her bluff and say "Yeah, I agree -- let's get divorced"?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> MattMatt, what would your wife do if you actually called her bluff and say "Yeah, I agree -- let's get divorced"?


I tried that. She backtracked!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hazel6 said:


> Hi, i started going through matrimonial settlement after my husband cheated and betrayed me for numerous times within 25 years married. Since then i experience self doubt if i did the right thing or maybe theres a way of saving our marriage. Pls advice me or support me


He was never good enough for you.


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## Hazel6 (4 mo ago)

Thank u for your reply. It hurts to find out that there was no attempt of reconciliation or remorse or regret. Instead it feels like he wanted to attack me as i locked him out of the house.


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## Hazel6 (4 mo ago)

Instead of sit down and talk…. He gave me a list of things that he wanted from the house. My last txt to him 3 months ago was that “ he should ask himself as to why he was locked out of the house” BUT his reply was “ IT IS NOT A QUESTION AS TO WHY, ITS ABOUT HOW WE CAN SETTLE IT TO MOVE THINGS FORWARD IN SEPARATE WAYS” …… his responce was a bit shocking. We were grand before he went on vacation for 4 wks in the philippines and when he cameback home he was totally different person who never reply on my calls. And thats the reason why i locked him out and nver answered his call so he can taste his own medicine on what it feels like if i did it also to him.


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