# Wife in Midlife Crisis



## Gman

I've been married for 22 years - more than half of my life, to a woman that I thought was as near a perfect complement to me as was possible. We have two girls, ages 20 and 9. When my wife turned 40, it seems that all hell broke loose on our lives. 

She has maintained a relationship against my wishes with a 28 year old subordinate at her workplace (she is 42) that she swears has never gone beyond the emotional level. She has banned me from her workplace. Her taste in music has changed, she has started having cosmetic procedures, and has lost alot of weight. She buys lots of clothes and high heeled shoes that look like they should be on a woman 15-20 years her junior. Did I mention she got a tattoo a little over a year ago? She has also placed a password lock on her cellphone and hides it when she gets texts. I could go on.

I've begun counseling - lots of it - both individual and group. One comment that has come up frequently is, "When your wife is done with her counseling, maybe you can go for joint sessions..." Therein lies the problem. She refuses counseling of any type. To me, this speaks volumes. Is she afraid to be called out? Is there still MORE going on that I don't know about?

I love her very much and wish nothing but the best for her, but I am deeply concerned for her, not only as my wife, but as the mother of my children. 

Comments?


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## cody5

I can just about guarantee you left out the part about her going out w/o you a lot? Hitting the bars 'till late?


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## Gman

Unknown about "bars" per se, but lots of late nights at the office. Several work related dinners that were attended by the other guy, when she told me she was going alone...


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## galaxy

You can seek professional help even without her. You can also consider self help ebooks.


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## Gman

Guapo-

Thanks for your input. (Thank you all!) A couple of the comments you made made all sorts of bells go off in my head: "one decided that she "couldn't be herself" any more being married to her husband" and "another one fell in love with a co-worker." These resound with me, because I'm experiencing those right now!

Holy canoli. What's going on here?

Gman


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## spartan

need to start getting yourself steeled up and opening yourself up to the possibility for the worst.

C'mon guys, especially the ones that have been married for 10+ years- we know what normal behavior is in our wives and when things start happening that are out of the ordinary we try and pretend that its nothing serious.... right?

Respect in a marriage is paramount. Would you do this to your wife and tell her its no big deal? Its time to put your foot down and get to the bottom of it. At least respect yourself if your wife does not respect you!

Married Man Sex Life


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## Gman

Well that's the thing, isn't it, Spartan? Respect, that is... I've always been mild mannered - not a pushover, mind you, but one of those "still water" types. If anything, this situation has stirred me into boldness. Without going into detail, let's just say I believe I have the upper hand now, regardless of her respect or the lack thereof.

I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. That's where I am right now.

Despite what some may say, HOPE is something we should hold onto with ferocity. Whether it be something as profound as a hope in our God, or something as small as a hope for a better day, hope is something to be fought for.

Gman


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## Snowwhite

Hi, I am a 35 year old married woman. Im sure you don't want to hear this, but I almost guarantee that your wife is cheating. I can't expect you to understand what women go through between ages, 35-40, but something happens. Hormones change dramatically and sex drive is very strong. Ive been almost feeling like Im loosing my mind, and my husband feels its a midlife crisis, but if you do some research, you will find that this happens to women at this age. For me , my husbands sex drive has slowed down, I feel more attracted to other men, then I ever have. Infidelity has always been against everything I ever believed in, but the way I feel, I know I could do it. It doesn't mean that I don't love my husband. I just am having extremely intense and confused, feelings, emotions and thoughts.
I feel alot of the time, that I seem to get alot more positive attention and comments from other men, Id like that more from my husband, but the fact is I am very attractive and it feels good to get the attention.
If you want to stay with your wife, then try and be a little more understanding about the feelings she may be going through. I know you may hurt, but if you want to stay together, you need to bring back the romance. Plan things just you two, do many special little things for her. Tell her ALOT that you find her, sexy, hot, beautiful, because if she is wondering, then it is because someone else is giving her that kind of attention. Fighting and complaining, is only going to drive a further wedge between you.
I hope this helps some, and I hope I haven't offended you.


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## spartan

Gman said:


> Well that's the thing, isn't it, Spartan? Respect, that is... I've always been mild mannered - not a pushover, mind you, but one of those "still water" types. If anything, this situation has stirred me into boldness. Without going into detail, let's just say I believe I have the upper hand now, regardless of her respect or the lack thereof.
> 
> I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. That's where I am right now.
> 
> Despite what some may say, HOPE is something we should hold onto with ferocity. Whether it be something as profound as a hope in our God, or something as small as a hope for a better day, hope is something to be fought for.
> 
> Gman


Hope is a beautiful thing. I am glad to hear you are taking back what is yours Gman. 

Word of advice though and I do not think any woman or man here will disagree- whatever path you choose, you need to stay the course. This is not the time to flip flop back and forth. You believe you are right in this then hold true to your convictions and follow through.

snowwhite, being perfectly honest here, I was in the position that Gman was in as well. Men like us did these things for our wives and gave TOO much. Too many compliments, too much attention and were too accessible to them when they needed us. Thus the initial attraction and challenge was gone from our relationship in our wive's eyes.

We need to pull back and quite frankly revert to the caveman days. Would his wife stray if she was uncertain on how Gman was to behave? Would she look elsewhere if he excited her in different ways and was unpredictable? Chances are the answer is NO. So while I agree he needs to bring back the romance he cannot afford to become a chump in the relationship and needs to truly become independant of his wife. 

games whether it be in the singles dating scene still has relevance in the married world as well. I have stopped being so predictable, stopped being so in touch with my feminine side and quite honestly started being myself again which is a knuckle dragging caveman! It works for me and I think it may work for him as well.


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## Crypsys

Snowwhite said:


> For me , my husbands sex drive has slowed down, I feel more attracted to other men, then I ever have. Infidelity has always been against everything I ever believed in, but the way I feel, I know I could do it.


Welcome to what most men live with every day of their life. We are wired to want to mate with most every attractive woman we meet. Yet, we have to hold that urge down. I seriously doubt hardly any man can say on this board he hasn't had many, many, many occasions he hasn't had the "urge". The difference between us guys and you women going through that stage in your life though is that we have a lifetime of learning how to control those urges. So we know what those urges are, what they feel like and generally can ignore them. Although some guys don't, hence cheating, etc.

Nature is cruel in that many women reach sexual prime when their husbands sexual drive is starting to wind down. Honestly though from a guys side I think exercise and being healthy keeps the drive going much longer. I'm finding now in my mid-30's my sex drive has not diminished and is in some ways even stronger then it was when I was in my early 20s. I have older friends (40's and 50's) who are still having a high drive that I exercise with. I truthfully think if the body is kept strong, the drive will stay up IMO.


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## Gman

Snow, Sparta, Hunt and Cryp-

Tried the affection, the vocalizing, the little "extra"... she said I needed a hobby and that she was feeling smothered. While I'm not to the point of dragging my hairy knuckles on the ground, I have separated a bit- become less of the good-ol' reliable G that she seems to have become spoiled with. I don't doubt that she's going through something, but it's not like she has no CHOICE in the matter. We all have the choice to do what's right.

Gman


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## alexarene

Hello and sorry to hear about your problem I am going to be 41 and It sounds to me like your wife is going through something honestly It sounds like shes having an affair the same signs a man has getting all dressed up not acting like himself taking extra care about his attire and LOCKING THE PHONE? Look I am not telling you to leave her that is up to you But you really need to understand is women usually have affairs because they are not happy at home with their spouse NOT all women but some, Not saying this makes it right but before you jump on her find out, If you love her then find out what she feels is lacking in the marriage. Or if its something you cant put up with if shes cheating then just leave . But know if she really loves you she will be back crying . sometimes we do not know what we have till its gone . I hope this helps you out some, probably not what you want to hear your wife Possibly having an affair but I think you really should work on this really sounds like she has an issue with you . Curious if you have ever been unfaithful ? If you have then there is your answer look at you and then look at her . take care Wish the best for you to resolve amicably for you n your children .


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## sisters359

OP, your wife is jerking you around--take a stand, but start counseling, too. She is not respecting the marriage as the place she needs to get her needs met. Ask yourself, did she try? Did she ask for things--maybe even a few years ago--that you blew off? Maybe she did, so you have a good indicator of why she is getting needs met outside the marriage (not an excuse; just an explanation. She is wrong for going outside the marriage--just as you would be in the wrong for blowing off her needs, if you did).

Another possibility is, she is finally feeling self-confident, and your marriage was--from her p.o.v.--based on the fact that she did not feel that good about herself. I don't think this is likely, b/c she engaging in attention-seeking behaviors for external affirmation. A self confident person doesn't need to do that. But, if it is true, then you have to grow with her and learn to relate to the new person she has become, b/c she will not tolerate your attempts to treat her like the needier person she used to be.

So, if this is a "mid-life crisis," the negative is that she is looking outside the marriage to get her needs met. The positive is, you are aware of the fact that she has unmet needs (fear of growing old, etc.) that you can begin to address, once she has stopped behaving like an idiot. Well, you can start to address those needs right now, and exclude her chances to look outside the marriage. Plan some things that let you become the one she will enjoy/turn to as she seeks getting her needs met. If you just say, "stay home!" it will come across as simply controlling--IF she complied, you'd have kept her (temporarily) from looking outside the marriage, but you wouldn't accomplish anything more. If you say, "You seem to need more excitement these days. Let's . . ." you remove one opportunity for her to look outside the marriage while also meeting a need. 

There is a huge difference between letting her run wild, demanding "respectful" behavior, and demanding respectful behavior while recognizing she has other issues that you can HELP with. It's like saying, "that's just wrong of you," vs. "that is wrong of you; if you want more excitement in your life, it needs to be with me, so let's . . ." I see the first as controlling, the 2nd as setting limits while being confident you can meet her needs. Either way, of course, going outside the marriage is NOT an option, and that part of your point is delivered with calm certainty that you will not tolerate anything else.


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## alexarene

there is SOME truth to this caveman theory BUT let me tell you something Women despise the caveman so in that respect when u do play games like turn me into a caveman it only teaches a new game for the woman that she will have to resort to acting like a cave woman which means she will honestly look like you got her where u want her BUT SHE WILL JUST BE SNEAKIER HONEST AND TRULY MEN DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH A WOMAN IT DOESN'T WORK ITS CHILDISH SO WE WANT REAL MEN . NO GAMES GAMES GET GAMES. LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING GETS LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING.


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## alexarene

this last posting on this subject was to a man who said to act like a caveman it worked for him OMG !


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## turnera

Come on, gman. She's cheating. And you're sitting back and letting her go a little further each day, while you do nothing.

Hire a PI to get the proof you need.

Confront her with the proof, ask her to stop.

If she refuses, call her best friend or her mother or father and tell them and ask them to have a talk with her. 

If that doesn't work, call her parents, siblings, best friends, and pastor, and tell them she's having an affair and ask them to let her know if they don't approve; tell them you're trying to save your marriage. She needs to see that people aren't going to accept this and be ok with it.

Also at this time call HIS parents and tell them that their son is cheating with a married woman. That alone may do the trick, depending on their family.

While you're doing this, ALSO find out what she is missing in her marriage. I guarantee you have plenty of things you could be doing to improve your half, to give her a good reason to 'come home' to you. Read the book His Needs Her Needs and also Surviving an Affair.

Go to marriagebuilders.com to see how to stop an affair.


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## turnera

alexarene said:


> this last posting on this subject was to a man who said to act like a caveman it worked for him OMG !


 What he meant is that women biologically - from caveman days - respect the man who can come in and provide, protect, and be strong when he needs to. The more immasculated men become today, the less women like them.

He's talking about protecting what's his, and not lying down and letting her walk all over him, just so he can stay 'nice.' Nice makes women lose respect. Strong, confident and loving makes women _gain_ respect.


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## spartan

ty turnera- That is the point that I was trying to make with my caveman abilities 

nice guys finish last if you allow it to happen. I firmly believe that you should never allow anyone to take your kindness as a form of weakness.

alexarene, women may HATE the caveman, however, they do RESPECT the caveman. They know that deep down the caveman will protect them and provide for them regardless of the size of the wolf at the door. 

what is the difference between a gentleman and a chump? a gentleman is respected yet they exhibit actions that are almost identical to a chump.


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## sisters359

turnera said:


> What he meant is that women biologically - from caveman days - respect the man who can come in and provide, protect, and be strong when he needs to. The more immasculated men become today, the less women like them.


This is such a misconception. Women in primitive societies did not sit around expecting men to protect them or provide for them. Sigh. Even a basic understanding of anthropology shows that as social creatures, primitive humans worked together to build their communities and there was little to no "differentiation," not even when it came to hunting or early "warfare." Women provided for themselves and other women and men, just as men did. Women protected themselves and other members of the group just as men did. There is no evidence of role differentiation of early hominids; all the evidence is to the contrary. 

Women want their offspring to survive long enough to reproduce just as much as men do. Women can have fewer offspring, so they may be more selective about mates. But the characteristics that speak to LONGEVITY do not necessarily correlate with "good provider" or "willing to protect me." In fact, an individual who can defend him/herself but avoids conflict is a lot more likely to survive than the one who jumps to the defense of others. 

Geez, can we wipe this 19th century assumption off the map, already?


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## turnera

Everything I've read said that the women ran the camp and the men provided the meat and held the weapons. I didn't say they were weak.


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## sisters359

Humans had a long history before they had weapons. The point is, biology does not determine the roles humans play; culture does. The only thing biology determines is the ability to bear or to father children. Everyone assumes that stuff about "women's dependency" on male strength/protection is somehow hardwired--and there is absolutely NO evidence to suggest it is, since early human societies (small bands and tribes) did not have the luxury of differentiating along gender lines. Before weapons, people didn't hunt large or dangerous animals, esp. not one by one. They drove herds into temporary corrals, or they fished and trapped. Nothing about these activities is gender-specific, and even in more recent tribal groups (vs. prehistoric), women participated in such activities. There is a huge difference between something that is "hard wired" into humans vs. something that may have proven more efficient for the group as a whole.


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## michzz

sisters359 said:


> Humans had a long history before they had weapons.


Humans and or ancestors have had weapons for hundreds of thousands of years -- at least.

Bows and arrows, the atlatl, spears, even just rocks.

Most pre-industrial societies had a warrior caste. And even hunter gatherer societies have gender-specific tasks. Primary defense and hunting of large game is done by men.

I could cite sources, but I think we're side tracked.


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## skitown

Well, it certainly does sound like an affair to me - be prepared. I am in my mid-40's (yes, I still can't accept my real age) and have been struggling with what are probably some mid-life issues. Based on your comments - I am guessing you married young (early 20's). For married women with children, your 20's and 30's are spent devoting your time to your children (not to say that fathers don't). Mothers generally tend to be the primary care takers of the kids/home-chores/meals and in some cases even the finances. It sounds like she may have been working as well - so what time did she have to devote to herself? Then all of a sudden you are 40 - where did the time go? The children are older or out of the house - do not need Mom like they used to. I think some women have a hard time adjusting to this (i have). You look back - and think what have I given up - what did I miss, etc. Could my life have been better if this that and the other thing happened. What if I made different choices. We all have these questions. Unfortunately, your wife's response has been to engage in these negative behaviors that are jeopardizing your relationship and the relationship she has with her children. 

I understand some of her behaviors - regarding her appearance. It makes my day when I can turn the head of a man (though not a 28 year old - like the upper 30- 40 somethings). She really needs to end this destructive behavior and really focus on herself - who she is, re-discover talents or abilities that have been hidden for a while, - and of course focus on you and her family. 

I am sure you have heard of cougars - she is one. Read up on them.

Hoping for the best for you.


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## sisters359

michzz said:


> Humans and or ancestors have had weapons for hundreds of thousands of years -- at least.
> 
> Bows and arrows, the atlatl, spears, even just rocks.
> 
> Most pre-industrial societies had a warrior caste. And even hunter gatherer societies have gender-specific tasks. Primary defense and hunting of large game is done by men.
> 
> I could cite sources, but I think we're side tracked.


Maybe, but you are still wrong. No weapons for hunting large animals until well into the Stone Age--no real weapons of any type until the STONE age (tens of thousands of years ago, not hundreds of thousands)--that's how it got its name, and that does not date back as far as **** sapiens as a species does. I can cite sources, too. No evidence that men only provided "primary defense" and hunting of large game, which initially involved chasing herds into places it would be easier to club individuals to death. 

Meat would have been a relatively small part of the early human diet--maybe 10% of calories, and that does not mean humans were out there hunting large animals from the get-go. Just the opposite, in fact. Such hunts would have taken a lot of social organization, something early humans had to develop, not a natural instinct. Humans migrated to regions with better "trapping places," in fact, at certain very early stages to facilitate such hunts. Furthermore, the earliest "battlefields" and other remains of pre-historic peoples show injuries and trauma inflicted by animals and other humans in both male and female victims, suggesting that both were participating in fights/hunts. 

There is really NO evidence that men had any specific or exclusive role in early human defense or acquisition of meat. In fact, in most cases, there is an ASSUMPTION that this was so--look closely at the sources of such information (which tend to be old), while actual archaeological and anthropological evidence demonstrates again and again that the development of gender roles occurs much later in human society and therefore can not be an "evolutionary imperative" so to speak. 


Furthermore, in the animal world, the male does not provide for/protect the female and offspring any more than the females themselves (and in species where the male does not stay with the female/offspring, the female does it all herself). Nearly all aggression in males is toward other males of the same species trying to mate with the females--the males are fighting for their right to be the mate, not to protect the females. 

There is a tremendous amount of bad advice that stems from the belief that somehow women are hard-wired to want protection and to have a provider. Yet there is no archaeological or anthropological evidence to back up that claim, and it all points to the opposite: that early human societies were extremely "egalitarian" in that both males and females participated in the hunting and gathering that sustained groups. Primitive societies needed the full involvement of men and women to provide the resources each individual needed to survive; isolated "couples" wouldn't have made it. To think that individual women would have a preference for a specific male "provider" when each woman depended on the efforts of herself, all the other women, and all the other men, to survive and to help her keep her offspring alive, just does not make any sense. To do so is to project backwards a relatively short-lived form of human organization (dating back to about 3500-4000 bce) and *assume* what needs to be proven--and which the actual evidence contradicts.


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## spartan

burglar comes to the door while husband and wife are in bed- who takes the baseball bat to confront the intruder?

:scratchhead:

Love to see Martha Stewart dedicate a show on that


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## sisters359

> burglar comes to the door while husband and wife are in bed- who takes the baseball bat to confront the intruder?


This is irrelevant. You are taking a modern example and suggesting it has a biological root. That is "biological determinism" and has been fully discredited as a plausible methodological approach b/c it involves looking for evidence that justifies an assumption rather than considering and accounting for all evidence. In other words, it only "works" when you ignore a lot of evidence. 

The very fact that a man and woman are isolated as a couple in a home is socially organized. That has nothing to do with whether or not women, instinctively, look for a "protector and provider" in selecting a mate. 

And let's just ask ourselves--how many women think it is a good idea that anyone goes to confront the burglar? How many women would be racing to protect their kids while telling their husband to call 9-1-1? Furthermore, you cannot confuse the fact that while individuals may feel grateful to those who provide protection to them with a hard-wired preference for that characteristic in a mate. There is no reason to believe early humans were monogamous in any way. Monogamy is basically non-existent in nature. Even in species that "couple" on a seasonal basis, the offspring have DNA from other males, and both the male and the female defend the nest. 

I should probably say that I'm a PHD in history and pretty much up on all the evidence on these issues--historical, anthropological, archaeological, as well as pretty recent evidence from evolutionary biology (although I'm more dependent on recognized scholars there, since I don't have the scientific background). All of these fields provide evidence that traditional theories about the alleged "biological origins" of modern social organization simply cannot accommodate. The original theories are pretty much as old as scholarship, based on very little evidence. From the 19th century forward, evidence has emerged that has made it increasingly difficult to entertain the old theories. Most recently, DNA studies have devastated old assumptions about monogamous species in nature. 

All right, I'll stop here. Anyone who wants to continue this discussion can email me privately or we can start an alternative thread.


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## Gman

Skitown-

Thanks for staying on-point... felt like I was reading a debate transcript for awhile, there.

Anyway, I appreciate your viewpoint and hope to hear more from you and others - not just the militant "kick her to the curb" stuff, but the others that offer alternate scenarios.

That's not to say that kicking to the curb doesn't sound AWESOME... depends on the direction the wind is blowing.

Gman


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## sisters359

Sorry, Gman. Please go back to my original response on this. Taking a stand and demanding respect is ALWAYS appropriate, no matter who you are. Demanding respect for the institution of marriage is right, too, if that is what you believe. The mistake too many people make is stopping after demanding respect--"my way or the highway" kind of thing, as though by having an affair the cheater has forfeited all right to respect him/herself. The cheater has forfeited any right to privacy, perhaps, but not a right to having his/her needs met in appropriate ways. 

Again, mea culpa!


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## Gman

But, I've gotta say, Sisters359... you make a great argument.


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## Anooniemouse

Honestly, if I had the same problem to face, and I had already spoken to her about it, and there was no change in the behavior, or it got worse (as you have described) my preparations would be toward stowing money away somewhere, making copies of important documents, taking back control of the finances, preparing to file, and situating myself to try to keep my children in my custody. 

A divorce isn't final until the papers are signed, but presenting the papers is one hell of a conversation opener, and sends a very strong message about what you will tolerate, and what you wont. You may say that is 'militant', but the soft approach hasn't worked too well. It also puts you in a better position should things go the worst way ... 

Women tend to idolize one man at a time in terms of their affections -- and whomever that is is their 'ideal man' of the moment. So it doesn't surprise me that you got the reaction that you did when you tried to advance affection, positive comments...etc All of those are very bad signs, but there are some very positive signs too, and one of those is that she isn't so apathetic that she isn't trying to hide it from you. That alone tells me she either isn't fully ready to leave, fully committed to whomever she is seeing, and/or afraid of the consequences of doing so. IMHO, the only way that this will work is to make those consequences real, and make her have to make her decision based on the information she has. If the papers landing in her lap opens a dialog, so be it, you got your window to work, and a chance to work on the issues without her treating you like a chump. If it doesn't open a dialogue, she has already made up her mind, and anything you do now is futile anyway. 

Its one of those things that I've always agreed with my Arab friends about ... Women don't respect someone who isn't willing to stand up for themselves, and the relationship by setting limits. 

If you get the chance to talk, be understanding, but its obviously not something you can live with.


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## MEM2020

Love balance:

Gman,
Who is more loving to whom. For each item ask yourself how often it happens, who typically initiates, does the other person mirror the overture or reject it?
- Saying I love you 
- Giving specific compliments - about performance, appearance, anything
- Non sexual affection - initiating a hug, lying next to on a couch
- Making the effort to spend time together 
- Doing nice things for each other - special meals - extra help around house - etc

Are you satisfied with your sex life? Has the frequency/quality changed in parallel with these other changes in your wifes behavior? 

In a non-affair situation what has often happened is the H is over loving the wife. The thing is over loving simply means radiating more love at her than she really wants. 

Normally that is easily fixed - you keep the quality of your overtures high but steadily reduce frequency until she is initiating as much as you are. Maybe even more. 

I consciously "under love" my wife in terms of what I project. And the result is she comes to me for more. More hugs, more ILYs, more sex. This is not a control game. It is simple recognition that if I expressed my love at its normal rate she would feel smothered/bored and her sexual desire would disappear. 

Instead I am the guy who at one level she knows is 100 percent committed - but in the day to day I act a bit more like a boy friend than a H. More interesting for her. 

And this is all fine BUT if she is having an affair and you back off she will just focus more of her romantic energy on the OM. 

If you were me - I would totally focus on how to find out if she is having an affair. I would likely hire a PI for the job. If she was I would confront her and make her choose. And choosing would mean new ground rules. No locked cell phones, no password protected email accounts, etc. 

I love my wife. She has never cheated. If she did - I would not immediately divorce her, I WOULD take the steps above. If she wanted to continue the affair she could - but I would be gone. 






Gman said:


> Skitown-
> 
> Thanks for staying on-point... felt like I was reading a debate transcript for awhile, there.
> 
> Anyway, I appreciate your viewpoint and hope to hear more from you and others - not just the militant "kick her to the curb" stuff, but the others that offer alternate scenarios.
> 
> That's not to say that kicking to the curb doesn't sound AWESOME... depends on the direction the wind is blowing.
> 
> Gman


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## skitown

About the 28 year old - I believe he is just a representation of the youth she once had. The free spirit, young love, passion that we all had with our significant others before kids, bills, comittments, real life, etc. I would doubt it is anything more than "entertainment" for her right now. And same for him. I doubt he is looking at being a stepdad to a 20 year old daughter.

One question I have - is how many other people - friends, relatives - know what she is doing. Does she have a confidant you could speak to and voice your side of the situation - who perhaps could help open her eyes up to how destructive her bahavior is. This may be the best way to counsel her.


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## Robrobb

Wow, Gman, a timely thread. I don't know if I can offer a great point of view, but at least it's a parallel one. My wife is 36 and has recently asked to suspend our romantic relationship, and is telling me she thinks its over. In the fallout I discovered an online affair that she claims started after she (unilaterally) called for the break. They appear to be engaging in cybersex but she claims it's a very limited relationship, and that its something that feels fun because she knows it won't ever be serious. In my case she's trying to convince me not to be hurt over it because she doesn't think it's a big deal. The other guy is 10 years her junior and lives like 1500 miles away. Other factors are involved - they are both addicted to the same online game and play together, the gameplay is affecting our two children, and so on.

We had been distant for some time, doubly so since she started playing this online game. Our sex life had fallen off for months but was never great. She continues to tell me that she'd never wanted more, though I suspect that in some ways we just weren't doing what we needed to hold the other's interest. She has lost weight, and for sure, since the break, her level of happiness has been higher. This puts me in a confusing state of wanting her happy but feeling pain and the unhappiness it causes me. Like you, I love my wife and want the marriage to continue and regrow. 

A friend of mine suggested something along the lines of the caveman approach, which I applied a bit, and she responded strongly and negatively. I regret now the backward step it gave us. Surely there are trust issues between us and we are now in marriage counseling. I do plan to keep up the fight, but that's me. She's given me just enough signals that she may wish to stick together, but she wants time to let her online fling run its course. Your wife doesn't appear to be signalling even much honesty to you, so you may take another course.

Good luck regardless.


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## Gman

Skitown-
Mr Hole is not the brightest bulb in the package... I'm not just saying that because he's the OM. The conduct of both he AND my wife doesn't seem to acknowledge the whole "stepdaughter angle" you bring up, which leads me to the same conclusion. There is one friend in particular that she confides in, who has had her own affair and is in the process of torturing her OWN husband with her behavior. The thought of my wife and her friend together conjures the image in my head of "(Middleaged) Girls Gone Wild" Not someone I'd want to bring my case to...

Robrobb -
I'm right there withya. Thanks for your response.

Gman


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## MEM2020

Caveman approach is almost always a bust. 

A different approach is to steadily make her a lower priority to you. Be friendly, nice - even warm BUT: spend less time together, steadily do fewer "extra" things for her. Spend less time thinking about how to make her happy. Spend more time at the gym or doing a new hobby without her. 

Stop with the romantic dinners/gifts. Be nice, while steadily starting to detach. If she has been rejecting you sexually stop initiating hugs and affection. Let her come to you. 

There is a giant chasm between caveman and doormat. Continuing to give someone platinum/princess treatment while they pursue an online EA is pure doormat. 

When she complains about the lack of VIP treatment, don't get angry - in fact the expression of anger is often very counterproductive in these situations. Instead just shrug and say "I am simply making your needs the same priority you have shown mine". And then be silent. If she ignores you or walks away let her go. 

And she may use that as a way to escalate and end it. But do you really want to stay with someone who treats you like this?




Robrobb said:


> Wow, Gman, a timely thread. I don't know if I can offer a great point of view, but at least it's a parallel one. My wife is 36 and has recently asked to suspend our romantic relationship, and is telling me she thinks its over. In the fallout I discovered an online affair that she claims started after she (unilaterally) called for the break. They appear to be engaging in cybersex but she claims it's a very limited relationship, and that its something that feels fun because she knows it won't ever be serious. In my case she's trying to convince me not to be hurt over it because she doesn't think it's a big deal. The other guy is 10 years her junior and lives like 1500 miles away. Other factors are involved - they are both addicted to the same online game and play together, the gameplay is affecting our two children, and so on.
> 
> We had been distant for some time, doubly so since she started playing this online game. Our sex life had fallen off for months but was never great. She continues to tell me that she'd never wanted more, though I suspect that in some ways we just weren't doing what we needed to hold the other's interest. She has lost weight, and for sure, since the break, her level of happiness has been higher. This puts me in a confusing state of wanting her happy but feeling pain and the unhappiness it causes me. Like you, I love my wife and want the marriage to continue and regrow.
> 
> A friend of mine suggested something along the lines of the caveman approach, which I applied a bit, and she responded strongly and negatively. I regret now the backward step it gave us. Surely there are trust issues between us and we are now in marriage counseling. I do plan to keep up the fight, but that's me. She's given me just enough signals that she may wish to stick together, but she wants time to let her online fling run its course. Your wife doesn't appear to be signalling even much honesty to you, so you may take another course.
> 
> Good luck regardless.


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## Atholk

sisters359 said:


> Maybe, but you are still wrong. No weapons for hunting large animals until well into the Stone Age--no real weapons of any type until the STONE age (tens of thousands of years ago, not hundreds of thousands.


What about pointed sticks?


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## Atholk

My feeling is that she is physically involved with him fairly heavily. It's not a midlife crisis, it's just an affair.

Right now she's winning the war in terms of controlling the flow of information around everything. Basically she's shut you out of her work place and you can't get into her phone to check the obvious sex messages in there.

Get the phone records from the phone company. Keylogger her computer with Spector Pro. Generally gather the information and proof anyway you can legally.


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## Gman

Atholk and Anyone else out there -

All I've been able to secure is the to/from information from my cell provider... is there anything out there that I can obtain to allow me to see the actual TEXT???? Already know it's taking place, but don't have the content.

Gman


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## MEM2020

Not if her phone is "locked". Are you willing to put a GPS tracking device on her car? Some of those "late nights" at the office may include trips to his place. 

I know a guy who did this and it absolutely confirmed a physical affair. Faced with the evidence she did not even try to deny it. 

I just think you need to prepare yourself. She seems comfortable knowing that you are pretty sure she is having some type affair. She may well be ok with you being certain. You need to have a plan if she refuses to end it. 



Gman said:


> Atholk and Anyone else out there -
> 
> All I've been able to secure is the to/from information from my cell provider... is there anything out there that I can obtain to allow me to see the actual TEXT???? Already know it's taking place, but don't have the content.
> 
> Gman


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## turnera

Another great way to snoop is to put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car, attached with velcro. Waywards often say a lot of stuff in their car, when they expect no one can hear them.


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## Atholk

turnera said:


> Another great way to snoop is to put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car, attached with velcro. Waywards often say a lot of stuff in their car, when they expect no one can hear them.


Wouldn't that just result in hours of road noise taping?


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## El Guapo

Atholk said:


> Wouldn't that just result in hours of road noise taping?


Some of them have a voice activated mic that stops when the car is unoccupied and queit. You can FF until you hear voices and stop and listen to that part. Whatever you do, don't let the wife find it. Under the seat is very risky. My wife found one while cleaning up her spilled purse and was extremely angry.


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## sirch

My ex wife did the same things as yours, it sucks to live like that. I was given an anology that fit perfect...and it might in your case as well
" some women are like monkeys, afraid to let go of one branch untill they have a firm grasp of another"

In my situation I cut the branch and served her divorce papers.


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## Gman

All-

I'm more than willing to place the GPS, recorder, etc.. Does anyone know of good/reasonable costs for these? A PI group I checked into offers a week's GPS rental with live monitoring for $500, but I think actual cost is considerably cheaper than that.

The voice recorder would be good to pick up her end of conversations with him, too.

Gman


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## turnera

I keep seeing people just tell others to go to Radio Shack.


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## chrisbx7

I went through the exact same thing with my ex-wife. She lost some weight, started getting noticed by younger guys, had a friend that cheated on her husband and so on and so forth. Let me tell you, I wasn't a "bad" husband at all. In fact, after we divorced, all the friends that we had are now my friends and they won't even speak to her. 

Let me give you some words of advise, prepare yourself for the worst. I stayed in my marriage for a year after I found out things were going on. Nothing gets better and nothing you can do will changed her. I was married for 18 years with two kids (10 & 15) and I got tired of all the lies and games. I finally decided that whatever there was out there HAD to be better than what I was going through. 

Sorry to tell you this but if you HAVE to get someone to change, is it really worth it? You should be happy with her and she should be happy with you. 

Also ask yourself these questions:
Will I ever be able to trust her again?
Will our marriage ever be the same?

Once that trust is broken, it takes so long to regain it again. She is doing the same as my ex. She wants you to be one of her boyfriends and support her while she does whatever she wants. What about you though?

Hope this helps. I know exactly whaere you are right now and it will never get better until you end the relationship. She will get mad as hell at you for it but that is the only way. My ex is still mad at me and it's been 5 years. She still can't believe that I left her. I only reacted to her actions.

Good Luck!!


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## Anooniemouse

Provided you can get secure access to her car once every 5-7 days ... Battery powered GPS units are cheap, under $150, and 3 months of monitoring is only about $50. These are small enough to bury in a glove box, or inside the holders on the backseats of some SUV's. (About the same size as a pager from 90's).

I don't think GPS monitoring is a bad idea. Even if they switch cars at work, or somewhere else it will still give you the pattern that you can use to spend more valuable resources later. 

Its likely only going to confirm what you already know though. Which is going to bring you back to ... What next?


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## tam911

I am a woman in my mid forties who is working on putting some spice back into my relationship with the hubby. I am trying hard...because I think he is WORTH it! BUT, it took him FINALLY standing up to me and telling me that he was at the end of his rope if things didn't change....that he was through with being miserable. At first I was mad....but then when I kept thinking about the finality of him being gone from my life, I knew in my heart I had better try to change. I wasn't running around or anything like that, but I wasn't giving very much of myself to our relationship. SO...my advice for you is to STAND UP TO HER....YOU DESERVE MORE THAN SHE IS GIVING!! She is being blatantly disrespectful to you in the way she is treating you. Tell her NO MORE. I bet you money that within a week you will see a change. And if you don't.........you were wasting your time anyway. Then it is time to let her go. See if her little boyfriend wants to pay her rent and take care of her. LOL....I bet he won't! Save your money on buying a GPS....you can smell a rat a mile away....with or without a GPS. CALL HER ON IT. QUIT LETTING HER MAKE YOU MISERABLE. I am so glad my husband stood up to me. He wasn't loud or ugly or anything, but it is what I needed to hear...otherwise I would have continued being selfish for who knows how long. I am happy to say that we went on a "date" this week....and I took of my wedding ring and told him we were dating....not married. LOL....we had a REMARKABLE night and I can't wait til our next "date"!  I really wish you Good luck!


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## Gman

Tam-

Good stuff. I'll rip her a new one this evening, demand that she make changes and expect AWESOME sex afterwards...

Just messing with you. Wanted to make you smile.

Gman


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## turnera

Here's the thing. 

Each one of us, on this earth, are programmed to take care of ourselves.

Period.

We do what feels good.

We avoid what feels bad.

You have to _become _what feels good for her.

How will you do that?


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## Anooniemouse

Since you asked: Spark Nano GPS Car Tracking Device | GPS Tracker System | $100 REBATE $99, and reasonable month by month, and 3 month monitoring. Its very tiny, and easy to hide.


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## Gman

Turnera-

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? I mean, to enact personal changes in my life because of her actions in MLC? Doesn't that, in essence, justify her actions?

Anoonie-

Thanks for that... ever thought of becoming a personal shopper?

Gman


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## turnera

Have you been to the marriagebuilders.com website? They have an awesome program for getting back the marriage you want. It does involve stopping an affair if one is present. But it ALSO involves the betrayed spouse working on HIS half of the marriage, so that the wayward spouse has a REASON to come back to it. People don't typically cheat in a happy, healthy marriage; there's usually something missing - some Emotional Need the BS isn't meeting, or some Love Busting going on that drives her away. Those are things that YOU control.

fwiw, I don't believe in MLC. I do believe in boredom and unwillingness to work on a marriage and willingness to run from it and look for a relationship that's more fun.


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## cody5

Why the GPS? Why change yourself for her? Why snoop? Why question? She's told you she's left this relationship in her words AND actions. Doesn't anyone read all of these posts? Prepare for the worste. It's here.

She's gone. And nothings gonna' bring her back.


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## turnera

I respectfully disagree. I've seen lots of waywards find their way back, once the AP is gone.


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## spartan

tam911 said:


> I am a woman in my mid forties who is working on putting some spice back into my relationship with the hubby. I am trying hard...because I think he is WORTH it! BUT, it took him FINALLY standing up to me and telling me that he was at the end of his rope if things didn't change....that he was through with being miserable. At first I was mad....but then when I kept thinking about the finality of him being gone from my life, I knew in my heart I had better try to change. I wasn't running around or anything like that, but I wasn't giving very much of myself to our relationship. SO...my advice for you is to STAND UP TO HER....YOU DESERVE MORE THAN SHE IS GIVING!! She is being blatantly disrespectful to you in the way she is treating you. Tell her NO MORE. I bet you money that within a week you will see a change. And if you don't.........you were wasting your time anyway. Then it is time to let her go. See if her little boyfriend wants to pay her rent and take care of her. LOL....I bet he won't! Save your money on buying a GPS....you can smell a rat a mile away....with or without a GPS. CALL HER ON IT. QUIT LETTING HER MAKE YOU MISERABLE. I am so glad my husband stood up to me. He wasn't loud or ugly or anything, but it is what I needed to hear...otherwise I would have continued being selfish for who knows how long. I am happy to say that we went on a "date" this week....and I took of my wedding ring and told him we were dating....not married. LOL....we had a REMARKABLE night and I can't wait til our next "date"!  I really wish you Good luck!


quoted for truth


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## tam911

Was wondering how things were going??? Did you tell her how you feel????

As for me....going on another "date" tonight with my Hubby! He has been a new man this week.....and it is refreshing! I can't believe the difference. Didn't know I was making us both so miserable!


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## tryingtocope24

Gman: I have read thru many of your posys and it sounds exactly like me a year ago. My wife of 24 yrs did all that yours has and I started snooping when I found out things I then realized I wish i would have not snoopped because I even felt worse... Take care of you and do what makes you feel better. Your kids will be fine Mine are doing Great. So jump ahead till present time. Wife and I are divorced. She is unhappy. I am happier than ever.. I learned than I was being heald back from many things that I wanted to be doing. I do them now when ever I like. I have dated about ten differnt women. Some nice, some crazy. I now have met the nicest women and never thought someone like this was out there. So what may seem like hell right now might work out to be a good thing for you.
Good Luck to YOU!!!!!!!


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## Gman

Hey, Tam...

Interesting weekend - the kids were on a trip of their own, so the wife and I did a day trip to a nearby city that has lots of art. We dig that kind of thing, so we spent the day wandering from gallery to gallery and seeing lots of good stuff. There was intimacy in the morning before we left that hasn't been common recently. It was great.

And yet, the other guy* still *found his way into our weekend - or rather, she let him in - much more communication via text than I would have liked. She sent him pictures she took with her phone and texted him several times, when I thought it was "just us." Mixed messages are driving me crazy.

A step forward, a step back.

Gman


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## Gman

Tryingtocope -

Thank you for your encouragement. Needing more of this of late, and yet, getting more and more stable "in me." The last year has been a challenging one and in all likelihood will continue to be, but times they are a-changin'. I can see it.

- Gman


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## turnera

Gman, I really think you have to stand your ground on this. When she is with you, she is NOT to contact OM. If she insists on contacting him while with you, you have to lovingly but FIRMLY tell her the date is over, that you will NOT be disrespected like that. And then take her home or wherever, but END the date. Why should she stop texting him? You let her eat cake right in front of your face, just to get to be with her. And she knows it.

She needs to hear this from you.


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## skitown

I agree with turnera. She is playing you and she won that set. I am guessing that you may have looked at this as an opportunity to reconnect with her - but she is not 100% invested in the date or you if she is texting the OM. Don't play the game with her. You need to be strong and take the lead. 

If I were you, I would have taken the cell phone and thrown it in the closest river and taken the car leaving her stranded where ever you were. Do not tolerate her behavior.


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## tjohnson

Reconanssance-know what is going on/gain evidence in case of split, gps, I don't know about if the stuff that detects semen works. There is so much spy technology out there it is crazy. Go online at work. Remember though, the use of some things may be illegal so be careful. 

Work-On yourself-make new friends and reconnect with old ones. Not tit-for-tat but as support. 

Take a stand-It is F&(*ed up to put a password on your phone. The same for carrying on with a younger man.

You are enabling her to have her cake and eat it too. The fact that her friend is a cheater makes me nervous too. Birds of a feather....!!! Your situation smells and it aint like roses. 

Nothing is more unattractive then being a pushover. By not demanding respect that is what you are being. She will accuse you of "controlling her" or whatever. Typical of a cheater. 

Of all the scenarios that i hear like this they usually end bad unless the non-cheater takes a stand and fights. See if there is something that is missing that you can provide but, don't continue to be made a fool of. I am trying to get you to act here! 

If you love something set it free or be a caveman.


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## Blue Moon

cody5 said:


> Why the GPS? Why change yourself for her? Why snoop? Why question? She's told you she's left this relationship in her words AND actions. Doesn't anyone read all of these posts? Prepare for the worste. It's here.
> 
> She's gone. And nothings gonna' bring her back.


:iagree:


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