# Do I bring it up?



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Today my H was writing a letter to his mom. They have a very bad relationship. She's nuts, literally. i think she might be a paranoid schizophrenic. Anyway a few years ago, when i first moved with my H, i hacked into my H's email and found tons, and tons of emails from her. I had no idea. There were quite a few about me. She called me a wh*re, b*tch, etc. I was so shocked. this women had been nothing but nice to my face. One email in particular really, really set me off. She went off about there not being any blood on our first time together and that meant i must be a s*ut. OMG. BUT what really set me off was my H argued with her about it!!!! I was physically ill after reading them. Never have i encountered something so dysfunctional. he kept every single email from her. I deleted them all and then blocked her email.

I'll skip all the drama that came in the middle and jump to today- three years later. he's writing a letter to her because he wants to "establish communication" with her. they havent talked much over the years. I asked him if i could read it and he was reluctant at first but then said ok. i read some of the first paragraph. it was about me again and the emails about me being a wh*ore, s*ut, and there being no blood the first time. He was saying how angry he was that she wrote that about me. I didnt even finish reading the first paragraph because he said to me, "Actually im not comfortable with you reading it." I dont know what else was said about me.

I actually feel physical ill that he's bringing that up again. he's not angry that she said that stuff about me. If he was he'd never bring it up again- and he certainly wouldnt feel the need to hide it from me! this is about me being a pawn in their ridiculous and incredibly dysfunctional emotional tug-of-war. In the past I made this very clear to him that this is not about what his mom said. I dont really care what she thinks of me. This is about what my H is doing. How in the world can he actually bring that stuff up and openly discuss it with his mom....again!?! He's not angry about it, he's not trying to defend me, he's playing at an emotional tug-of-war and using me for bait. If this was me and my mom ever said anything like this, I would be disgusted and i would tell her to never ever talk that way again, and lord knows i would never bring it up again!

*So----do i bring up that what he wrote really bothers me?* the reason i wouldnt bring it up is because he's trying to set things right, even though he's doing it all wrong, but he's going to show the letter to his counselor before he gives it to his mom. maybe i should just let it go and let the counselor work with him? if i bring it up im afraid he'll just feel like hiding it and then nothing will get resolved. I dunno. 

Thoughts? suggestions?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

I know you are feeling upset about his mother and boundary issues with her; so please don't overreact and think for a moment I am defending his mother's behaviors.

Actually, my initial reaction to your post was that "At LEAST he is TRYING to tell his mother how angry he was at her saying bad things about you." He WAS defending you...from what I read.

You state: "If he was angry he would never bring it up again...". Actually that is how YOU would handle it ("Lord knows I would never bring it up again..."), not how he is TRYING to manage his weird, outside the boundaries behavior ridden mother.
He is not you, and he is TRYING to deal with the realization that his MOTHER isn't a mother he would like to have, and may NEVER have, she is a weird mother...a HORRIBLE thing to have to deal with. Trust me, my husband has one of those I have found letters too; and I just do not get between him and his problematic mother.

Don't become part of his problem, be his ally. But then you already know that, or else you would not have written what you wrote in your last paragraph, right?

Good job thinking that out. Good to vent HERE rather than on him on this one. Poor man, I feel sorry for him.

Good. That was good.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> Actually, my initial reaction to your post was that "At LEAST he is TRYING to tell his mother how angry he was at her saying bad things about you." He WAS defending you...from what I read.


That is actually exactly what my counselor told me. I have tried to understand but I just cannot wrap my mind around it. How is it defending me? he kept all her emails b/c he said he wanted to prove to her one day that he was 'right'. he's always hated her, always found something to argue about with her; Whether its the way she talks to him, the things she thinks are 'right', or now what she thinks of me, he has always fought with her. He just wants a reason to vent his hatred towards her, a reason to get in this emotional knock out. there's no motive in there to defend me. he just wants to argue with her, to prove her 'wrong' and he's using this as one more thing; im just a pawn for him to win his game. it's just an ego battle. as much as i try i cannot see it any other way. 



Sandy55 said:


> Don't become part of his problem, be his ally. But then you already know that, or else you would not have written what you wrote in your last paragraph, right?
> 
> Good job thinking that out. Good to vent HERE rather than on him on this one. Poor man, I feel sorry for him.


i feel you are right. i am trying. i do feel bad for him and i try to remember he is trying. i know if i confront him with this he's just going to feel like im being judgmental, that nothing he does is ever good enough, and it'll probably be counter productive. i want to be his ally but i cant help the way i feel about all of this. and now that i know its going on behind my back, that they are arguing about _that_ behind my back, i feel sick and angry. what do i do with all this?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

I agree the subject you are so upset over is shocking and disgusting for a mother in law to bring up. You are totally justified in being digusted. 

But, you perhaps need to step back and consider the source from which it came: a sick mind. 

You just happened to be something she could use...it is no reflection on YOU personally, trust me. 

You need to distance yourself from her sickness. Her sickness is the source of stupid and crazy spoutings. That is all it is spoutings. If it wasn't about YOU, she would certainly find some other hapless victim to spout venom about. She is sick. 

Your spouse has a NEED to be "right" because if he is not "right" in HIS mind he is also nuts as she is! Think of it this way: IF a CRAZY person wins an argument with you, then YOU must be the crazy one, right? Crazy people are not right, so therefore if she PROVES to him (by "winning" an argument) SHE is right, HE is the crazy person. 

SO therefore HE needs to PROVE to HIMSELF he is right...of course he is going at it wrong...he will one day realize you can't argue with a nutjob. One just walks away. 

Any person who has a crazy parent, a schizo parent especially, is AFRAID of it being genetic or having rubbed off in some way. And until he proves to himself he is OK, he is gonna keep arguing with her!

My mother in law used to bug the hell out of me, the THINGS she would say behind my back and in letters to my spouse! Once I figured out she was seriously a nutjob, I learned to just shake my head and walk away. BUT it took me years to figure it out: you cannot argue with a non-rational person.

My dh no longer communicates much with her at all...and she is ALONE, sitting in her house ALONE, because she just said one too many "crazy" things about others no one wants to be around her, including her sons who figured out she was nuts.

Sad, but true. Be patient, let him figure it out. Then when he has sorrow in knowing she is hopeless, just listen.


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## Dizzy (Jun 3, 2009)

Blanca said:


> I actually feel physical ill that he's bringing that up again. he's not angry that she said that stuff about me. If he was he'd never bring it up again- and he certainly wouldnt feel the need to hide it from me!


In my own experience, I would only bring it up again if I 'was' still angry about it. There's no reason to hash over things that don't bother you. And he may be hiding it from you because he doesn't want to bring up old hurts for you and make you go through something that's no fault of yours.

It sounds like he's trying to protect you while he's trying to work through these arguments with his mother. For his own reasons, he can't just drop it but he doesn't want to cause you any more pain for you either.

It's also possible that he kept all those emails to remind himself what a nut case his mom is should he ever start to feel sorry for her and forget how bad she can be. 

I don't think it gets any more basic than what a person feels for his/her parents. And when a parent is destructive, it's so difficult not to wonder if there's some way to fix it. He needs to get okay with the fact that he can't fix his mom and he's not going to get her to see her attacks are wrong.

I would let it just play out. But if you find you just have to talk to him about it... thank him for defending you and tell him that you appreciate it but it isn't necessary. Getting his mother to agree that she's been wrong doesn't change who either of you are. 

It must be really hard to have them fighting over something so that's so personal when it isn't any of her business to begin with. Hang in there...


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Blanca, it sounds like you have some serious boundary issues. Hacking into his email, deleting his saved messages, and blocking his mother--wow, if my spouse did this to me, I'd be LIVID. I cannot even imagine doing this to another adult.

You have a relationship with him; he has a relationship with his mother. Try to stop confusing the two! As long as he doesn't bring her into the relationship with you--by treating you like her, or using her words against you, etc., then it would be best if you could let it go. It sounds like he was doing a good job keeping them separate, which must be really hard and is very admirable if you ask me. He made a mistake in letting you read the new letter, and i bet he won't make that mistake again. 

Your thinking on the subject is not very clear, as you seem to have realized when you said you couldn't get your head around it. So please try to take a deep breath and step back from this--do what it takes to get yourself at peace with the fact that this is HIS problem, not yours. I find lots of deep breathing and running help me in these situations, and I give myself as long as it takes--days, weeks, months, whatever. Every time you begin to think of it, say "Stop--not my problem!" Then try to redirect your thoughts. It isn't easy, but it does help over time to learn to let go of what you cannot understand or control. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> SO therefore HE needs to PROVE to HIMSELF he is right...of course he is going at it wrong...he will one day realize you can't argue with a nutjob. One just walks away.


ya, you are right. i was thinking about it last night and wondering if maybe im just reacting to what happened in the past and not really thinking about what is happening now. In the past, he was just arguing with her, using me as a pawn. but the more i think about it the more i do realize that he's struggling with wanting to 'win' like you said, but i think now he is really not only trying to defend me but also figure out his relationship with her. I mean, he hasnt talked to her in six months b/c of things she said about me. I think when i read it again i just instantly went back to all the drama of three years ago. i need to remember that things are different now.

thanks for all your advice. it really helped reading about why he needs to be right. i hadnt thought about him being scared of being crazy and being like her but it makes a lot of sense.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Dizzy said:


> I would let it just play out. But if you find you just have to talk to him about it... thank him for defending you and tell him that you appreciate it but it isn't necessary.


Ya that is what im going to do. 



Dizzy said:


> It must be really hard to have them fighting over something so that's so personal when it isn't any of her business to begin with. Hang in there...


It is so hard!! I was raised in an ultra conservative family. I have never spoken of such things and to know he's talking about it with his mom....just infuriating. It was hard enough for me to write it on here.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> Today my H was writing a letter to his mom. They have a very bad relationship. She's nuts, literally. i think she might be a paranoid schizophrenic. Anyway a few years ago, when i first moved with my H, i hacked into my H's email and found tons, and tons of emails from her. I had no idea. There were quite a few about me. She called me a wh*re, b*tch, etc. I was so shocked. this women had been nothing but nice to my face. One email in particular really, really set me off. She went off about there not being any blood on our first time together and that meant i must be a s*ut. OMG. BUT what really set me off was my H argued with her about it!!!! I was physically ill after reading them. Never have i encountered something so dysfunctional. he kept every single email from her. I deleted them all and then blocked her email.
> 
> I'll skip all the drama that came in the middle and jump to today- three years later. he's writing a letter to her because he wants to "establish communication" with her. they havent talked much over the years. I asked him if i could read it and he was reluctant at first but then said ok. i read some of the first paragraph. it was about me again and the emails about me being a wh*ore, s*ut, and there being no blood the first time. He was saying how angry he was that she wrote that about me. I didnt even finish reading the first paragraph because he said to me, "Actually im not comfortable with you reading it." I dont know what else was said about me.
> 
> ...



In the situation you described, I'd say no, you should not bring it up. This situation is between him and his mother and you should not have read his emails either.
I'm sure he knows as well as you do she's crazy... and you should not make her your problem. If he chooses to deal with her, let him do it himself...
but you may want to have a casual discussion with him about why he wants to.
If his explaination is unknown to him or he does not know why or trying to please her, you should maybe encourage him to seek some counseling about it...
but overall and the deatils and her emails, I feel you should stay out of it.
As of right now, she is not in your life, not asking to move in with you... do not have contact with her. I see her no threat in your life.. she is more annoying and you are in question why he wants to have any contact with her...
but other than that... you should reallky try to stay out of it
or judge him about it since you hacked his email. I don't think he intended you see that email from her for good reason.
He maybe just confused about her and wants for her to get well... he may not even know why he is wanting contact with her.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> Blanca, it sounds like you have some serious boundary issues. Hacking into his email, deleting his saved messages, and blocking his mother--wow, if my spouse did this to me, I'd be LIVID. I cannot even imagine doing this to another adult.


Haha...ya you dont have to tell me. Like i said earlier i skipped all the drama that came after that. I have since learned that what i did was wrong and I would never do that again. I asked him if i could read this current letter but wont if he says no. 



sisters359 said:


> As long as he doesn't bring her into the relationship with you--by treating you like her, or using her words against you, etc., then it would be best if you could let it go. It sounds like he was doing a good job keeping them separate, which must be really hard and is very admirable if you ask me. He made a mistake in letting you read the new letter, and i bet he won't make that mistake again.


I do understand what you are saying and i agree with you to a point. I know i need to back off a bit and just let him handle this- that this is his business with his mom and i just unfortunately happen to be in the middle of it. I know it really has nothing to do with me, as far as their feud goes, however it does greatly affect me. this conflict consumes him. I want to try and talk to him about it because I care about him and if i dont talk to him about it, then i wont even know the person i married, but of course it gets confusing for me when such intimate details of mine are being shared. Not only that, but when he's thinking about this stuff with his mom his temper flares. not too long ago he absolutely exploded on me and i seriously considered leaving him. he went nutz-o on me. i wrote about it on here. he basically threatened my life. 

but still, i know, i need to let him deal with what is between him and his mom, and deal with what is between him and me and not get those lines crossed. It is, certainly, no easy thing.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

preso said:


> In the situation you described, I'd say no, you should not bring it up. This situation is between him and his mother and you should not have read his emails either.
> I'm sure he knows as well as you do she's crazy... and you should not make her your problem. If he chooses to deal with her, let him do it himself...
> but you may want to have a casual discussion with him about why he wants to.
> If his explaination is unknown to him or he does not know why or trying to please her, you should maybe encourage him to seek some counseling about it...
> ...


:iagree: 

In addition: when you hack into someone's email you need to be prepared for what you read. 

Reading crazy crap from a deranged person and taking it seriously becomes: 

WHY would YOU want to do that....Twilight Zone time....


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> Reading crazy crap from a deranged person and taking it seriously becomes:
> 
> WHY would YOU want to do that....Twilight Zone time....


oh no i never took what his mom wrote seriously, i still dont. i dont care what she thinks. it bothered me that my H argued with her about my virginity. the way they argued about me behind my back like that was disgusting. it was at a time when i had just moved states, just given up everything for him only to find things like that. 

I needed to know. I still need to know when he's thinking about writing her, etc. He flips, seriously. I need to know the depth of the dysfunction so i can protect myself and also decide if this is someone i want to have kids with. his MIL will become a big part of our lives once we have kids; at least that's what my sisters tell me. i need to know how nuts she and he are to make decisions for my future.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

your husband may be just as angry about what his mom said about you as you are.

and i know if my mom had said such things abouit my wife and never apologized the issue would remain unfinished business.

and i would bring it up to my mom again.

i think your husband doesn't know how to talk to his mom. and i think he's seeking approval.

he should learn to cut her loose, frankly.

but it's not your job to teach him this lesson.

and he is allowed private conversations with his mom or anyone else he chooses.

i personally prefer to share most everything with a significant other, probably to a fault. but it's my decision to change my boundaries, no one else's.

i don't understand, given the lack of a relationship so far with your mil, why she would suddenly be so involved with your family once you have children.

i remember when my son was all of i think 4 he asked to visit my mom. i had serious resevations because my mom's home is not a healthy home to say the least.

i mentioned my trepidation to a friend, a psychiatrist, and she remarked that my relationship with my mom was mine, and my son's with his grandmother his.

so i took him and we visited under very strick supervision from his mom and dad.

a few years later i asked if he wanted to visit my mom again and he replied, 'why would i want to go back there.'

if you're certain that your mil will somehow become involved in your life, then you are right to be anxious.

but, respectfully, is there a possibility you're using this argument to justify interfereing in your husband's business.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

recent_cloud said:


> and i know if my mom had said such things abouit my wife and never apologized the issue would remain unfinished business.


ya, that is what my h said. he said he wants her to apologize. 



recent_cloud said:


> if you're certain that your mil will somehow become involved in your life, then you are right to be anxious.


im certain she will be involved b/c he wants her to be involved. its really bothering him that he has a bad relationship with her. he wants to fix it and so she will always be in our lives. im ok with that, even if she stays nuts. Im more concerned with how it will affect him- and our kids. I know when we have kids its going to affect them in two ways. First, they will visit her. Depending on how things go it will be debatable if i leave them alone with her. but of course it'll be complicated b/c of how my H feels, or may feel in the future. And two, how my H feels about what's going on with his mom will affect our kids. I need to know how he's going to handle things b/c i do not want to have kids with him if he's going to be emotionally unstable about it. 



recent_cloud said:


> but, respectfully, is there a possibility you're using this argument to justify interfereing in your husband's business.


No, really im not doing that. when i first asked to read the letter i had no idea i was going to be in it. i was actually shocked. we had been talking about it for some time before he ever wrote the letter and i was really just trying to help him. he's my best friend and im concerned for him. I had serious issues with my mom up until i was about 22 and so i know what he's going through. i really just wanted to try and help him talk through his feelings about her. i got over my issues with my mom and i thought if i could just talk to him maybe he'd get something from how i handled things. I did not realize i was still a factor between them- and i did not realize that _that_ was going to be mentioned again.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> ya, that is what my h said. he said he wants her to apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heres my thinking on the subject.

If I know someone to be crazy, it would have NO impact at all what they said, because you see... I know
they aren't in their right mind.

I might pity them more than be angry at them.

It's like this woman from my past, a relative of sorts who started nasty rumors about me because she couldn't control me...
I think .. "aww, poor woman, must be hard being her to stoop to something so ugly and ridiously immature"
and I think nothing more of it other than to say a prayer in my mind that God helps her with her issues.
She doesn't make me mad... and I tell people who know her how sorry I feel for her that her life is a shambles but there is nothing I or anyone can do for her. She has deep mental illness and I hope she one day seeks serious help.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> If I know someone to be crazy, it would have NO impact at all what they said, because you see... I know
> they aren't in their right mind.


ya i know what you mean. i worked in a mental hospital for awhile and i learned all sides of disorders. I learned not to take it personal. 

So i talked to my H about it and things went really well. thanks for everyone's advice. it really helped me remember not to react to the past, but to think about what was going on now. and it helped to be reminded of how hard this is for him, that he is trying (even if i dont understand it), and that I need to stay out of it. I told him i would love to talk to him about it in general, but i dont want to read anymore of the letters to her. I did tell him it makes me extremely uncomfortable for him to be talking about _that_ to her but i didnt tell him he shoudl leave it out. i didnt tell him what to do. i just told him how i felt about it, told him i know he's trying and i support however he wants to go about it, but that is how i feel about him bringing _that_ up. which is why im not going to read the letters anymore. i guess he just has to work out the details on his own. 

thanks again for everyone advice. it really helped.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Blanca said:


> however it does greatly affect me. this conflict consumes him. I want to try and talk to him about it because I care about him and if i dont talk to him about it, then i wont even know the person i married, but of course it gets confusing for me when such intimate details of mine are being shared. Not only that, but when he's thinking about this stuff with his mom his temper flares. not too long ago he absolutely exploded on me and i seriously considered leaving him. he went nutz-o on me. i wrote about it on here. he basically threatened my life..


And this is where you need to focus your energies--not on what he is or isn't saying to his mother, but how he treats YOU. Wow, no way i could stay around someone who did this to me, even once, probably. I hope you can work things out. Best of luck, and take care of yourself.


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