# All Men-Pay attention to her!



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women. 


Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
Never make your woman feel like you're not the man of the house. She ask for the tap to be fixed? Get up you ass and fix it. You see her car needs a service? Pick up a phone and organize it. There's nothing as manly as a man that takes action.
Every time you make get feel alone, don't listen to her concerns, blame her for expressing herself, she loses trust. She feels rejected and close off. It'll happen very slowly, but we never forget the moments you made us feel small/ like too much / not respected.
Listen when she tells you her problems about the relationship. She's not criticizing you, it's not a personal attack. It's her way of showing she cares and wanting to grow the relationship.
*Never think that as soon as she stop "nagging" and become silent that she's happy. NEVER. as soon as she doesn't get upset, angry, frustrated with you or something you did - it's over. 
* If she tells you something, don't let her repeat it. 
*Never lie to her. We are better investigators than the FBI. We will know and we will get to the buttom of it all. We sense things we have no way of knowing. 

If she asks you about it, she already knows the answer. She just want to test if you have the guts to be honest.
Dont break promises you don't intent to keep. Once she doesn't trust your word-you have problems my friend. Being let down repeatedly and getting disappointed over and over again makes her feel unsafe and erodes trust and intimacy.
Once you make her feel not desired, not loved, like she has to change or has to compete with anything/ anyone for your attention, she'll eventually stop.
Don't neglect dating nights. We want to feel like you go through trouble to keep the spark.
Never lie about porn/ sexual desires and chatting to other women. She WILL find out. And it's basically over after that.
The most important thing for us is feeling safe within the relationship and with you. If that's lost, why would we stay?
Grow balls, man up, take responsibility. Spending hours on Xbox, not paying basic bills, neglecting to sometimes help with dishes after she cooked, makes her feel you take her for granted. If you can't outgrow your boy shoes, don't get married/ in a relationship.
If she has standards she WILL expect only the highest from you. And you should be grateful. If you can't keep up, find a lower grade woman.
Don't make her feel like a freak for innitaing sex / turn her down repeatedly for no reason. You break her self confidence. Once another man makes her feel wanted and sexy, she'll lose emotional connection to you.
Fight for her, show up for her, you're the man after all. If she hasn't stole yours, that it.
We know we're emotional, we know we are sometimes hard to understand. Don't repeatedly tell us that.
Never underestimate the importance of a long text, explaining what you like about and appreciate about her.
A woman puts up with things you'd leave her for longer than you would. We keep fighting, telling you what bothers us, we keep forgiving you for **** you'd never forgive us for. Don't act suprised when she walks out after years of neglect.
Treasure her, make her feel like a woman. When she gives you her heart, don't you break it. She's the best thing that you ever had. She'll love you if you love her like that.

Xxxx


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

* TRIGGERED *

It's a two way street... from my recent experience...



Bea22 said:


> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.


In the beginning she loved me for who I was and did not try to change me, she inspired me to change. Later, it's all about who she wanted me to be not who I was.

By comparison I have been consistent from day one as a person unless you want to count "effort" and have expectations of love and romance to last consistently for years on end despite sacrifices being required for a greater future instead of thousand dollar dates not to mention circumstances beyond our control like the fking pandemic and lockdown.



> Never make your woman feel like you're not the man of the house. She ask for the tap to be fixed? Get up you ass and fix it. You see her car needs a service? Pick up a phone and organize it. There's nothing as manly as a man that takes action.


Not like this was ever appreciated, "that's just my expectation" she said.



> Every time you make get feel alone, don't listen to her concerns, blame her for expressing herself, she loses trust. She feels rejected and close off. It'll happen very slowly, but we never forget the moments you made us feel small/ like too much / not respected.





> Listen when she tells you her problems about the relationship. She's not criticizing you, it's not a personal attack. It's her way of showing she cares and wanting to grow the relationship.





> A woman puts up with things you'd leave her for longer than you would. We keep fighting, telling you what bothers us, we keep forgiving you for **** you'd never forgive us for. Don't act suprised when she walks out after years of neglect. Treasure her, make her feel like a woman. When she gives you her heart, don't you break it. She's the best thing that you ever had. She'll love you if you love her like that.


Correct, you are right in this. However, it's not always what you say it's how you say it. Avoid use of words 'always', 'never', do not bring your friend's boyfriends or other couples or tiktok couples into the relationship if you do. Keep making me feel not good enough there's only one answer to that - get lost and find someone who can give you everything from beginning to end because that's what she wants anyway. And when I show the door, take it don't wait years to do it.



> If she has standards she WILL expect only the highest from you. And you should be grateful. If you can't keep up, find a lower grade woman.


Grateful for expectations? Grateful for never being appreciated for what I put in instead only condemned for what I did not?
Four YEARS of disciplining a body clock to reply to her on text within the hour or having fights start when I'm 5 fking minutes off?

I'm grateful to be FREE from all that to be honest.



> Don't make her feel like a freak for innitaing sex / turn her down repeatedly for no reason. You break her self confidence. Once another man makes her feel wanted and sexy, she'll lose emotional connection to you.


Depends on how she initiates, if she demands it, complains about not getting enough of it, pisses me off during the day and expects to still get some after - forget it!



> *Never think that as soon as she stop "nagging" and become silent that she's happy. NEVER. as soon as she doesn't get upset, angry, frustrated with you or something you did - it's over.
> * If she tells you something, don't let her repeat it.
> *Never lie to her. We are better investigators than the FBI. We will know and we will get to the buttom of it all. We sense things we have no way of knowing.
> 
> ...


These I agree with at least.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> * TRIGGERED *
> 
> It's a two way street... from my recent experience...
> 
> ...


Yes of course it's a two way street and nobody is perfect. I've seen it just too much where men don't understand why their woman is unhappy and I just tried to share the "overall" stance from a woman's point of view. You do get *****es who treat their men like **** but just like men, I believe they're the expectation to the rule. Most ppl try their best. This isn't a rule for ALL men that all of men do this wrong. It's just something general I've picked up on. For example, my one friends gf left him after "nagging" (his words) him for years. She just left. And he was dumbfounded. Well, needless to say she wanted more and later stopped asking. Then there's nothing left. 

As regards for the expectations, I don't mean in a controlling way. I mean in a way of she sees potential and want the best for you and the relationship. For example, my husband was a gaming addict and my expectation were that he quit completely. Not because I'm a ***** or want to control him but because it wasn't good for him and our relationship. 

Hope you understand.


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> * TRIGGERED *
> 
> It's a two way street... from my recent experience...
> 
> ...


How can you say this while still expecting sex at the drop of a hat on your end?


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> Yes of course it's a two way street and nobody is perfect. I've seen it just too much where men don't understand why their woman is unhappy and I just tried to share the "overall" stance from a woman's point of view. You do get ***es who treat their men like ** but just like men, I believe they're the expectation to the rule. Most ppl try their best. This isn't a rule for ALL men that all of men do this wrong. It's just something general I've picked up on. For example, my one friends gf left him after "nagging" (his words) him for years. She just left. And he was dumbfounded. Well, needless to say she wanted more and later stopped asking. Then there's nothing left.
> 
> As regards for the expectations, I don't mean in a controlling way. I mean in a way of she sees potential and want the best for you and the relationship. For example, my husband was a gaming addict and my expectation were that he quit completely. Not because I'm a *** or want to control him but because it wasn't good for him and our relationship.
> 
> Hope you understand.


Or she wants you to stop stuffing your face with junk and encourage you to eat healthy. Or motivates you to persuae your hobby.... Expectations are a form of self discipline, and is needed to become a better self. If any man doesn't want to better himself - wtf? 
Likewise, I'd like a husband/ man to keep me at the same expectations. 
Don't you think a relationship is supposed to make you a better person / always make you strive to do better? 

Don't agree with the saying "except me as I am". Sorry, no relationship will work out then. There's constant growth, healing, compromise, connection needed to maintain a good healthy relationship and that requires change. For both individuals.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> Yes of course it's a two way street and nobody is perfect. I've seen it just too much where men don't understand why their woman is unhappy and I just tried to share the "overall" stance from a woman's point of view. You do get ***es who treat their men like ** but just like men, I believe they're the expectation to the rule. Most ppl try their best. This isn't a rule for ALL men that all of men do this wrong. It's just something general I've picked up on.


Despite how I vented about her my ex is/was an incredible woman, don't get me wrong. We just had serious incompatibilities.



> For example, my one friends gf left him after "nagging" (his words) him for years. She just left. And he was dumbfounded. Well, needless to say she wanted more and later stopped asking. Then there's nothing left.


My ex nagged me for years, yes I use the same word. That's why I mention it's not always what you say it's how you say it. The way she went with it brought out the worst of me, emotional shutdowns via the dismissive avoidant in me.

_Use of words 'always', 'never', bringing her friends' boyfriends or other couples or tiktok couples into the relationship, kept making me feel never good enough - and there's only one answer to that._
I look back at the shutdowns and hell what other way is there to respond to this crap except the door?

I always knew this was an issue, my mistake was thinking it would resolve itself somehow. Only one thing I regret though, the damn ring. But nothing else - because it was one big life lesson, before, during, and after the relationship.



> As regards for the expectations, I don't mean in a controlling way. I mean in a way of she sees potential and want the best for you and the relationship. For example, my husband was a gaming addict and my expectation were that he quit completely. Not because I'm a *** or want to control him but because it wasn't good for him and our relationship.
> 
> Hope you understand.


I understand. My issue with my ex in this was porn, it wasn't an addiction but I made promises I did not keep. I agree with what you posted in regards to lies, but I also lied to her which I'm not proud of, do take note of the circumstances surrounding this however:









Another porn and lying post


Sure, sure. Not the topic here though. You mentioned that all guys are constantly comparing their Ws to bikini models, I didn't bring it up. I'm just saying that's not the case in many many many Ms.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





As for your husband's gaming addiction, it may help to find out why he retreats to it as an escape as well. We are all learning and growing after all, and human.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

snowbum said:


> How can you say this while still expecting sex at the drop of a hat on your end?


What are you talking about? I always had sex on tap.


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You mentioned the woman complaining about not getting enough.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Despite how I vented about her my ex is/was an incredible woman, don't get me wrong. We just had serious incompatibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My husband turned to gaming to cope with depression due to issues from work. This caused us immence trouble because I ended up basically raising our daughter alone for 3 years while he wasted money on pc parts and games and emotionaly, sexually abandoned me for years. This is why I wrote this. 

My husband also said I keep nagging and he's so fed up, but he also admit that in the beginning when I nicely mentioned what bothers me, he didn't do anything about it. He basically thought "nah, I'm good **** you". He ADMITTED it!! But later our of desperation I started getting more fierce and telling him straight forward what my concerns are and now I'm nagging???? My point is, why does a woman have to resort to extreme measures to get you to listen. Nagging isnt fun for guys, it certainly isn't fun for us as well, and it's not fun having a man completely disgarding what you're trying to communicate. Guys say nagging is so irritating and it completely makes you feel like you hate her even more, same for us..... Same for us. *sigh


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> Or she wants you to stop stuffing your face with junk and encourage you to eat healthy. Or motivates you to persuae your hobby.... Expectations are a form of self discipline, and is needed to become a better self. If any man doesn't want to better himself - wtf?
> Likewise, I'd like a husband/ man to keep me at the same expectations.
> Don't you think a relationship is supposed to make you a better person / always make you strive to do better?
> Don't agree with the saying "except me as I am". Sorry, no relationship will work out then.


Expectations are the antithesis of appreciation. 
Real change comes when it is inspired, not when it is demanded.



> There's constant growth, healing, compromise, connection needed to maintain a good healthy relationship and that requires change. For both individuals.


Yeah, that's what she said too. I found my growth after I was free from her, obviously that speaks to the toxicity of our late dynamics.
Healing was found when facing the reality of our situation, again, after I was free from her.

Compromise is now a dirty word for me, I no longer believe in it anymore.

Connection however, yes, it is important, but it is not enough.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

snowbum said:


> You mentioned the woman complaining about not getting enough.


Oh you mean my ex and HER expectations? Yup


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Expectations are the antithesis of appreciation.
> Real change comes when it is inspired, not when it is demanded.
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe she was toxic. I don't know your situation. Most women only want the best from their men. Doesn't mean all do. I'm glad youre at a better place now. 

Strongs and may you find the right woman 😉


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> My husband turned to gaming to cope with depression due to issues from work. This caused us immence trouble because I ended up basically raising our daughter alone for 3 years while he wasted money on pc parts and games and emotionaly, sexually abandoned me for years. This is why I wrote this.


Ah yeah nah nah nah that's not on. Pull the damn plug. Chuck the PC out the window.
My ex's reason for banning porn for me because she demanded more sex from me when I needed more to get my engine rolling. Looking back we probably could have worked out a much better solution than the nuclear one.

Your case however, different story, nuclear option.



> My husband also said I keep nagging and he's so fed up, but he also admit that in the beginning when I nicely mentioned what bothers me, he didn't do anything about it. He basically thought "nah, I'm good **** you". He ADMITTED it!! But later our of desperation I started getting more fierce and telling him straight forward what my concerns are and now I'm nagging???? My point is, why does a woman have to resort to extreme measures to get you to listen. Nagging isnt fun for guys, it certainly isn't fun for us as well, and it's not fun having a man completely disgarding what you're trying to communicate. Guys say nagging is so irritating and it completely makes you feel like you hate her even more, same for us..... Same for us. *sigh


How do you 'nag' though?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> Maybe she was toxic. I don't know your situation. Most women only want the best from their men. Doesn't mean all do. I'm glad youre at a better place now.
> 
> Strongs and may you find the right woman 😉


She is/was a great woman and I hope one day we can be friends again. But yes, our _dynamics_ were quite toxic towards the end. All good though, learning experience and I'm sure she's strong enough herself emotionally to take it as that as well, it was her after all that taught me what it means to be emotionally mature and stronger than I could ever have imagined for 36 years.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Ah yeah nah nah nah that's not on. Pull the damn plug. Chuck the PC out the window.
> My ex's reason for banning porn for me because she demanded more sex from me when I needed more to get my engine rolling. Looking back we probably could have worked out a much better solution than the nuclear one.
> 
> Your case however, different story, nuclear option.
> ...


Haha the pc went. After he saw I'm losing my love for him. He sold it and quit gaming but again, it took me almost filing for divorce.... 

Nagging... Well I'll give an example. I work an 8 to 5 job. Hes away for work 50% at the time. 3 days work away from town and 3 days off at home. If I'm at work and took care of the house ill ask him nicely to please just do the dishes because I don't got round to it. He'll do nothing all day and then when I'm home at 5, and I get mad because he didn't do the one thing I asked he says I'm critizing him and breaking him down. 
He gets mad defensive when I voice my feelings for example I don't like it when you spend money for **** when we need to replace our door and he'd bring up times when I also "wasted money" like 5 years ago etc. I'll tell him to stop blaming me and hell promise he won't do it again. Next time I tell him what bothers me, I don't appreciate the things he does do right. Hefeels I'll never see him as a good husband etc etc and the sigh when I try to talk. Stonewalling me because "all I do is complain".... Meanwhile I do compliment him time and time again on all the things he DOES do right. So I guess I'll never win, will I? 
I know this is manipulation, but this is exactly what makes your sweet loving woman a demon to live with.. But you'll never see you created this monster ✌✌


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> Haha the pc went. After he saw I'm losing my love for him. He sold it and quit gaming but again, it took me almost filing for divorce....
> 
> Nagging... Well I'll give an example. I work an 8 to 5 job. Hes away for work 50% at the time. 3 days work away from town and 3 days off at home. If I'm at work and took care of the house ill ask him nicely to please just do the dishes because I don't got round to it. He'll do nothing all day and then when I'm home at 5, and I get mad because he didn't do the one thing I asked he says I'm critizing him and breaking him down.
> He gets mad defensive when I voice my feelings for example I don't like it when you spend money for **** when we need to replace our door and he'd bring up times when I also "wasted money" like 5 years ago etc. I'll tell him to stop blaming me and hell promise he won't do it again. Next time I tell him what bothers me, I don't appreciate the things he does do right. Hefeels I'll never see him as a good husband etc etc and the sigh when I try to talk. Stonewalling me because "all I do is complain".... Meanwhile I do compliment him time and time again on all the things he DOES do right. So I guess I'll never win, will I?
> I know this is manipulation, but this is exactly what makes your sweet loving woman a demon to live with.. But you'll never see you created this monster ✌✌


And yes he also lied about porn. For years... 

Not a good move at all. Now he turned the sexy goddess not wanting to have sex and wondering what else he's hiding.... 

Again, he created this monster 🤣🤣 this is the pattern I've seen too many times in relationships.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> And yes he also lied about porn. For years...
> 
> Not a good move at all. Now he turned the sexy goddess not wanting to have sex and wondering what else he's hiding....
> 
> Again, he created this monster 🤣🤣 this is the pattern I've seen too many times in relationships.


I know I know... There's always 2 sides to a coin but if you flip one side to face upwards all the time people won't see the other one facing down. It'll land on the same side every time. And then you can't blame the other side for not turning upwards more times.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> Haha the pc went. After he saw I'm losing my love for him. He sold it and quit gaming but again, it took me almost filing for divorce...


Sexual abandonment for 3 years and neglecting his daughter as well? He's fortunate you even stuck around to give him a chance.



> Nagging... Well I'll give an example. I work an 8 to 5 job. Hes away for work 50% at the time. 3 days work away from town and 3 days off at home. If I'm at work and took care of the house ill ask him nicely to please just do the dishes because I don't got round to it. He'll do nothing all day and then when I'm home at 5, and I get mad because he didn't do the one thing I asked he says I'm critizing him and breaking him down. He gets mad defensive when I voice my feelings for example I don't like it when you spend money for **** when we need to replace our door and he'd bring up times when I also "wasted money" like 5 years ago etc. I'll tell him to stop blaming me and hell promise he won't do it again. Next time I tell him what bothers me, I don't appreciate the things he does do right. Hefeels I'll never see him as a good husband etc etc and the sigh when I try to talk. Stonewalling me because "all I do is complain".... Meanwhile I do compliment him time and time again on all the things he DOES do right. So I guess I'll never win, will I?
> I know this is manipulation, but this is exactly what makes your sweet loving woman a demon to live with.. But you'll never see you created this monster ✌✌





Bea22 said:


> And yes he also lied about porn. For years...
> Not a good move at all. Now he turned the sexy goddess not wanting to have sex and wondering what else he's hiding....
> Again, he created this monster 🤣🤣 this is the pattern I've seen too many times in relationships.





Bea22 said:


> I know I know... There's always 2 sides to a coin but if you flip one side to face upwards all the time people won't see the other one facing down. It'll land on the same side every time. And then you can't blame the other side for not turning upwards more times.


I do wonder *how* you complained though. Do you raise your voice, do you belittle him? Compare him? Use words like always/never?

For me I remember refusing to do what my partner asked out of spite, including on the day of the breakup. It was really bad because I did not wish to reward and encourage her for how she treated me. This is the worst of me, the dismissive avoidant side. Whether to feel loved through acts of service or through touch because of her expectations and the way she demanded it I denied it to her, withdrawing sex and love when I shutdown. This is the monster she also created. 

Two way street as I mentioned.

This is a good discussion actually, I wonder if we may both learn how to deal with this.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sounds more like a prison than a marriage to me...


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> Nagging isnt fun for guys, it certainly isn't fun for us as well, and it's not fun having a man completely disgarding what you're trying to communicate. Guys say nagging is so irritating and it completely makes you feel like you hate her even more, same for us..... Same for us. *sigh


I heard a story on the radio just yesterday. A wife was upset because her husband spent too much time playing video games instead of being with her. They both had high stress jobs during the week and spent their decompressing but she wanted to spend her time with him. She admitted that she nagged him about it and he just dove deeper into the games. So she decided to quit nagging. On the weekends while he was playing games, she would get a book and curl up next to him and read. They would talk and enjoy their time together. This led to him quitting his gaming earlier than usual and taking her on date nights.

In the OP, you list a lot of things that a man must do. I get it, women are complicated. On the other hand, all a woman has to do is provide food, sex and back rubs. If a woman does that, a man will do anything for his woman. Women have the power in a marriage to build it up or tear it down. Nagging tears it down and pushes a man further away. On the other hand, if a woman will treat her man sweetly and kindly, being his girlfriend instead of a nag, there's nothing that he won't do for her.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

snowbum said:


> How can you say this while still expecting sex at the drop of a hat on your end?


Hat dropping.
Back in an hour.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Diceplayer said:


> Nagging tears it down and pushes a man further away.


Pretty much 

But hey, it's harder to inspire, easier to demand.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

As much as I'd like, but I admit I'm kidding. I'm out on a job.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> Pretty much
> 
> But hey, it's harder to inspire, easier to demand.


I demand you be inspired!
Problem solved.
🤣🤣🤣

PS, mostly kidding.


----------



## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


Very good points, but it certainly goes both ways. Also, not all women are emotional, I hate that stereotype. And it leads to women not being taken seriously. HUGE issue in my marriage. 
Also, in my marriage, I had the issue of my husband doing a 180 after I got pregnant, being very controlling in chronically critical about anything and everything regarding me/my choices. My only positive feature was "i brought him peace, and i'm a good mother". Gee, thanks.. 

We're now in marriage counseling after putting up with his s*** for 5 and a half years. Oh what fun!


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> I heard a story on the radio just yesterday. A wife was upset because her husband spent too much time playing video games instead of being with her. They both had high stress jobs during the week and spent their decompressing but she wanted to spend her time with him. She admitted that she nagged him about it and he just dove deeper into the games. So she decided to quit nagging. On the weekends while he was playing games, she would get a book and curl up next to him and read. They would talk and enjoy their time together. This led to him quitting his gaming earlier than usual and taking her on date nights.
> 
> In the OP, you list a lot of things that a man must do. I get it, women are complicated. On the other hand, all a woman has to do is provide food, sex and back rubs. If a woman does that, a man will do anything for his woman. Women have the power in a marriage to build it up or tear it down. Nagging tears it down and pushes a man further away. On the other hand, if a woman will treat her man sweetly and kindly, being his girlfriend instead of a nag, there's nothing that he won't do for her.


Thats not my experience sorry. 
I tried gaming with him. Even said he can game all he want. I sat with him and asked about his hobby. He still continued to spend more time in front of his metal ****. 
I asked him to spend a few hours with me, doing something we love.... And then he can game a few hours at night. 
It came to a point where I took out baby and left the house, were literally away for 5 hours before he called and asked where I was. 
After that, I didn't want him near me. Resentment grew. When he quit gaming ( for like 30 min) he'd sit next to me and I can see he's not with me. He's still in front of his game wishing he could rather play. So when he asked me of he can spend time with me I told him to go play rather, I know he want to do that much more. 
You don't understand addiction it seems. He was an addict and it took him years to admit it himself. All the thought about was gaming, buying the best gaming / pc equipment even if it meant maxing out his credit card and leaving us in debt. People say " be grateful he's not out at bars drinking" but what's the difference if he's locked in a room with headsets on, or if he's out somewhere else? No difference. He can still chat up gamer girls on the internet. I wouldn't even know. At a bar he can be seen and it could get back to me. Nobody will ever convince me I was kn the wrong regarding that. When I saw on Carbonite, a gaming online forum how many men are breaking up and fighting with their wives regarding their addiction, you'd fall back over. I'm all for balance and if you can't control your gaming, it will control every other aspect of your life..... Your marriage, your finances, your job even your health!! 

Nagging is not just the woman's fault. There's a reason she's nagging and not talking. She did talk. But you don't listen, don't respond. Don't respect her enough to care to validate what she says. Just remember, after nagging comes silence. And after that you'll only have a ghost of a gf. But then, you'll be happy? At least she's quiet. Sad actually.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Bea22 said:


> And yes he also lied about porn. For years...
> 
> Not a good move at all. Now he turned the sexy goddess not wanting to have sex and wondering what else he's hiding....
> 
> Again, he created this monster 🤣🤣 this is the pattern I've seen too many times in relationships.


Some women marry decent mature men, some of us marry a man-child and all the tantrums and resultant issues. You married a man-child.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Mr. Nail said:


> Whack, Whack, Whack goes the club!


Wasn't my intention... But hey.... 💁🏻‍♀️


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes,


How about "all people" or "everyone" instead of only addressing men, because this goes both ways. And no, men are not worse at it. 



> but trust me all of this is true for all women.


Nope, it's not ALL true for ALL women. These are your own personal preferences.



> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.


Right, so it's all the man's fault and responsibility  This one 100% goes both ways and women are just as bad at it. It's something that nearly everyone does, regardless of genitalia.



> Never make your woman feel like you're not the man of the house. She ask for the tap to be fixed? Get up you ass and fix it. You see her car needs a service? Pick up a phone and organize it. There's nothing as manly as a man that takes action.


When it comes to fixing things around the house or basic car maintenance, my wife often has the "I don't need no man" attitude or the toddler "I do it MYSELF!" attitude. If she ASKS, then yes I should do it in a timely fashion but everything can't always be on your timeline. If I ASSUME, well that can go either way. 

And it goes both ways, I've been waiting years for her to fix one of my shirts. Honestly, I don't even care about it anymore but I think it's funny when 5 years later she's still saying she'll get around to it. 

She wants me to be decisive and make decisions when she can't. That's what "being the man of the house" looks like to her. 



> Every time you make get feel alone, don't listen to her concerns, blame her for expressing herself, she loses trust. She feels rejected and close off. It'll happen very slowly, but we never forget the moments you made us feel small/ like too much / not respected.


100% good both ways.



> Listen when she tells you her problems about the relationship. She's not criticizing you, it's not a personal attack. It's her way of showing she cares and wanting to grow the relationship.


10,000% goes both ways. Also, women are just as ****ty at communication. It he feels you are criticizing him, attacking him, etc., then that's likely on you and how you communicate. You can't be a B with the "I just care" excuse. Nope.



> Never think that as soon as she stop "nagging" and become silent that she's happy. NEVER. as soon as she doesn't get upset, angry, frustrated with you or something you did - it's over.


I've heard that, but it's not so black and white in my experience.



> If she tells you something, don't let her repeat it.


I know a lot of men are bad at that, including myself. It's often not about intentionally ignoring or not caring enough to listen, FYI. 



> Never lie to her. We are better investigators than the FBI. We will know and we will get to the buttom of it all. We sense things we have no way of knowing.


People are going to lie, so "never" is a bit much. It shouldn't be over huge things but that goes both ways. 

If you want your spouse to be open and honest with you, good communication is needed on both sides. If a woman is going to overreact or communicate poorly, or "be emotional", they can't expect openness. 

Also, sometimes it's anxiety and insecurities not a sixth sense. 



> If she asks you about it, she already knows the answer. She just want to test if you have the guts to be honest.


And in some cases, that's fine. However some women do a lot of these "tests" and it's incredibly immature. 



> Dont break promises you don't intent to keep. Once she doesn't trust your word-you have problems my friend. Being let down repeatedly and getting disappointed over and over again makes her feel unsafe and erodes trust and intimacy.


You mean don't MAKE promises you dont intend on keeping? That's a given, and it goes both ways - in all relationships, not just romantic ones.



> Once you make her feel not desired, not loved, like she has to change or has to compete with anything/ anyone for your attention, she'll eventually stop.


Goes both ways. Women are great at making men feel that way as well.



> Don't neglect dating nights. We want to feel like you go through trouble to keep the spark


Exact same goes for women. How many men come here complaining because their wife went into "mommy mode" and stopped everything - including dates - and are full of excuses for it? 



> Never lie about porn/ sexual desires and chatting to other women. She WILL find out. And it's basically over after that.


False. Everyone has their own line.

Also, A LOT of infidelity is never brought to light. So "will" is a bit strong. 



> The most important thing for us is feeling safe within the relationship and with you. If that's lost, why would we stay?


_Everyone _should feel safe in their relationship.



> Grow balls, man up, take responsibility. Spending hours on Xbox, not paying basic bills, neglecting to sometimes help with dishes after she cooked, makes her feel you take her for granted. If you can't outgrow your boy shoes, don't get married/ in a relationship.


Yep, _however_, men should be helping with dishes all the time - not sometimes. If the woman cooked, the man cleans up and vice-versa. That's just one way to handle it. 



> If she has standards she WILL expect only the highest from you. And you should be grateful. If you can't keep up, find a lower grade woman.


Are you one of those "if you can't accept me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" women? This (and other points) is giving the same vibes.



> Don't make her feel like a freak for innitaing sex / turn her down repeatedly for no reason. You break her self confidence. Once another man makes her feel wanted and sexy, she'll lose emotional connection to you.


Uh, yeah... Women are just as bad, dare I say worse? 



> We know we're emotional, we know we are sometimes hard to understand. Don't repeatedly tell us that.


Yes, women can be emotional but they should NOT be using that as an excuse to act a certain way. Also, not all women are emotional. Many use that as an excuse to act like brats or ignore mental health issues - sorry.



> Never underestimate the importance of a long text, explaining what you like about and appreciate about her.


Sure, if one of your love languages is words of affirmation. This doesn't apply to everyone. It wouldn't do a darn thing for my wife. 



> A woman puts up with things you'd leave her for longer than you would. We keep fighting, telling you what bothers us, we keep forgiving you for **** you'd never forgive us for. Don't act suprised when she walks out after years of neglect.


Correction, _some people_ put up with more than others would. There are plenty of posts here about men who have stayed in a ****ty ass relationships for God knows why, and start realizing it 17 years later. 



> She's the best thing that you ever had. She'll love you if you love her like that.


Well that's a little presumptuous. Also, relationships take two people actively working on the relationship for it to be good. The "if you do this, THEN I'll do this" is often a load of crap.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Diceplayer said:


> I heard a story on the radio just yesterday. A wife was upset because her husband spent too much time playing video games instead of being with her. They both had high stress jobs during the week and spent their decompressing but she wanted to spend her time with him. She admitted that she nagged him about it and he just dove deeper into the games. So she decided to quit nagging. On the weekends while he was playing games, she would get a book and curl up next to him and read. They would talk and enjoy their time together. This led to him quitting his gaming earlier than usual and taking her on date nights.
> 
> In the OP, you list a lot of things that a man must do. I get it, women are complicated. On the other hand, all a woman has to do is provide food, sex and back rubs. If a woman does that, a man will do anything for his woman. Women have the power in a marriage to build it up or tear it down. Nagging tears it down and pushes a man further away. On the other hand, if a woman will treat her man sweetly and kindly, being his girlfriend instead of a nag, there's nothing that he won't do for her.


Some good points here but I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship? You say women have the power to build up the marriage or tear it down, to me this sounds like another version of , if you accept him as he is, put up and shut up, all will be well. This thinking is perpetrated over and over again in homes, by churches, etc. and is basically a firm of emotional abuse. why can’t a man listen to his wife’s concerns and be mature enough to listen? It all smacks of immaturity and selfishness, prioritising themselves. I’m not saying females are not selfish but some men are simply not selfless enough to be married and think they can continue to put themselves first in a relationship, as long as they get food and sex, all is well. This is a very superficial assessment on the whole.
let me ask yiu, how well would you treat a colleague if they treated you like ****, disrespected you every day , would yiu be kind and patient. This is pure misogyny.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

aine said:


> Some good points here but I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship? You say women have the power to build up the marriage or tear it down, to me this sounds like another version of , if you accept him as he is, put up and shut up, all will be well. This thinking is perpetrated over and over again in homes, by churches, etc. and is basically a firm of emotional abuse. why can’t a man listen to his wife’s concerns and be mature enough to listen? It all smacks of immaturity and selfishness, prioritising themselves. I’m not saying females are not selfish but some men are simply not selfless enough to be married and think they can continue to put themselves first in a relationship, as long as they get food and sex, all is well. This is a very superficial assessment on the whole.
> let me ask yiu, how well would you treat a colleague if they treated you like ****, disrespected you every day , would yiu be kind and patient. This is pure misogyny.


Someone gets it!! 👌👌👌


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, *but trust me all of this is true for all women.*
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


What I bolded is WRONG. You are presuming that your feelings are how "all" women feel, and that's totally incorrect.
There are quite a few points on these lists that don't fit ME at all.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> How about "all people" or "everyone" instead of only addressing men, because this goes both ways. And no, men are not worse at it.
> 
> 
> Nope, it's not ALL true for ALL women. These are your own personal preferences.
> ...


To sum all this up in one sentence : this is a man's group / conversation on Talk About Marriage. And I stated that this is from a woman's point of view. Meaning I know men have a different point of view on things. I also said this isn't rule of thumb on every man and woman. We are all different. 
Basically, this is just an opinion / statement of MY experience on why (for woman), relationships don't work out. 
Men has their own opinion. You're welcome to post yours in the lady's lounge conversation group! 
This is a free country. 
Difference is, I'll read it and try to see it from a man's point of view, not shift blame on men or trash talk them back. I'll take from it what I can and see where I screw up as a woman. 
You're welcome


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

aine said:


> t I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship?


Make up your mind. Do you want chivalry or not? 😁


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> To sum all this up in one sentence : this is a man's group / conversation on Talk About Marriage. *And I stated that this is from a woman's point of view.* Meaning I know men have a different point of view on things. *I also said this isn't rule of thumb on every man and woman. We are all different.*
> Basically, this is just an opinion / statement of MY experience on why (for woman), relationships don't work out.
> Men has their own opinion. You're welcome to post yours in the lady's lounge conversation group!
> This is a free country.
> ...


No you didn't...you said "all of this is true for all women".


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> To sum all this up in one sentence : this is a man's group / conversation on Talk About Marriage. And I stated that this is from a woman's point of view. Meaning I know men have a different point of view on things.


Your recent responses on this thread, like to Lisa, sure make it seem like it's my way or the highway.



> I also said this isn't rule of thumb on every man and woman. We are all different.


Um....



Bea22 said:


> but trust me all of this is true for all women.






> This is a free country.
> Difference is, I'll read it and try to see it from a man's point of view, not shift blame on men or trash talk them back. I'll take from it what I can and see where I screw up as a woman.
> You're welcome


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It sounds like you have a great marriage. But thank you for the post. I had no idea that all problems were caused by men. It's good to be enlightened.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> Your comment was also dismissive


Uh, no, it wasn't. All she said was not all women feel this way. That's not being dismissive. She didn't say you SHOULDN'T feel this way, just thay SHE doesn't.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> You're welcome to post yours in the lady's lounge conversation group!
> This is a free country.
> Difference is, I'll read it and try to see it from a man's point of view, not shift blame on men or trash talk them back. I'll take from it


You realize my opinion won't be any different in another part of the forum, right? So if you can't read it here without getting your knickers in a knot, you can't elsewhere either.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> It sounds like you have a great marriage. But thank you for the post. I had no idea that all problems were caused by men. It's good to be enlightened.


Thanks so very much ey. Yes certainly, because I said in my original post ALL problems come only from men. That's EXACTLY my words. You're the poor victims.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Sounds a lot like "Happy Wife, Happy Life", or "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".

Which IMHO is a total crock, and an open door for normalizing domestic abuse of men.

I'll stick with Proverbs 21:9. The corner of my roof ain't so bad.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> but trust me all of this is true for all women


Quoted to preserve.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> Well right. Good. That's why I said she's a unicorn most women ( I'm not going to say all dont worry), will find they relate. Why say she doesn't of this doesn't appeal to her. Scroll past then.


No SOME women. 

So everyone who doesn't agree with you should just "scroll by"? You can't handle people disagreeing with you and pointing out that you are incorrect? 

This is a forum, meant for discussion - which includes opinions other than your own.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> most women ( I'm not going to say all dont worry)


And then there was this.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> No SOME women.
> 
> So everyone who doesn't agree with you should just "scroll by"? You can't handle people disagreeing with you and pointing out that you are incorrect?
> 
> This is a forum, meant for discussion - which includes opinions other than your own.


This wasn't a discussion... You were rude form the beginning. See the first guy who commented. He also didn't agree and we had a decent chat. We learned from each other. You can just scroll up and read it yourself. I'm open for anything, but not attack. Sorry if it bothers you.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Bea22 said:


> Just like the saying goed by men "accept me as I am" and "she's just nagging" also contributes to emotional abuse and neglect of women. But hey, men are always right ey. Let's normalize abuse of woman.


If you want to change him, don't marry him.

My advice to men ... don't wife a nag.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...





Bea22 said:


> Never make your woman feel like you're not the man of the house.


I'm not sure if a man could even feel like he's "the man of the house" after that laundry list of requirements! LOL.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I couldn't make it thru the original post because 1/2 way thru it was clear was already more effort/work than worth.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bea22 said:


> Thats not my experience sorry.
> I tried gaming with him. Even said he can game all he want. I sat with him and asked about his hobby. He still continued to spend more time in front of his metal ****.
> I asked him to spend a few hours with me, doing something we love.... And then he can game a few hours at night.
> It came to a point where I took out baby and left the house, were literally away for 5 hours before he called and asked where I was.
> ...


Your case is extreme. This is why I said two way street.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> If she has standards she WILL expect only the highest from you. And you should be grateful. If you can't keep up, find a lower grade woman.


Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

aine said:


> Some good points here but I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship? You say women have the power to build up the marriage or tear it down, to me this sounds like another version of , if you accept him as he is, put up and shut up, all will be well. This thinking is perpetrated over and over again in homes, by churches, etc. and is basically a firm of emotional abuse. why can’t a man listen to his wife’s concerns and be mature enough to listen? It all smacks of immaturity and selfishness, prioritising themselves. I’m not saying females are not selfish but some men are simply *not selfless enough to be married *and think they can continue to put themselves first in a relationship, as long as they get food and sex, all is well. This is a very superficial assessment on the whole.
> let me ask yiu, how well would you treat a colleague if they treated you like ****, disrespected you every day , would yiu be kind and patient. This is pure misogyny.


The bolded is the main problem in marriage as I see it. Both spouses must have a very strong selfless streak. IMO for a marriage to really work and be healthy both people have to selflessly give to their partner. I personally found that the more I give the more I get.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


That is a very odd comment. I missed that.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> Wow, someone's very offended..... I don't understand your aggression?? Could you explain what exactly in my original post made you think I have my knife in for men overall?
> I really didn't post this as a threat, I really just thought I'd be good to share something that I dealt with and know many woman struggle with.
> 
> I don't get why I'm getting attacked here on technicality.
> ...


There you go again making assumptions. I'm not offended. 

Issue #1: Your post came off as women can do no wrong and problems are all the man's fault. As I pointed out, women are just as bad (if not worse) for nearly every point you made. You also make it seem like the man needs to step up first, which is not how relationships work. And some of the points on your list are caused by the woman, as I pointed out. 

When that was pointed out, your response (or lack thereof) was very defensive because I was "attacking" you just by having a different opinion that you took offense to. 

Issue #2: You flat out said that ALL women feel the exact same way you do (they do not). Then tried to claim you didn't say that. Then you sort of corrected and said MOST women feel this way (still incorrect). You cannot speak for all or most women, nor should you try. When women said they don't feel this way, you basically said to go away.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


I guess mine is a lower grade lady as she will call the car dealership to arrange her own maintenance. She also has the ability to communicate what's wrong without nagging like a child. 🤣

I am super happy to be married to a lower grade woman!


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> Wow, someone's very offended..... I don't understand your aggression?? Could you explain what exactly in my original post made you think I have my knife in for men overall?
> I really didn't post this as a threat, I really just thought I'd be good to share something that I dealt with and know many woman struggle with.
> 
> I don't get why I'm getting attacked here on technicality.
> ...





Bea22 said:


> Thanks so very much ey. Yes certainly, because I said in my original post ALL problems come only from men. That's EXACTLY my words. You're the poor victims.


If this is same attitude used for discussions in marriage I could understand why he would rather play video games. Called escapism. 
When was last time any of your girlfriends showed reciprocity for something a husband did?

Mv wife brought me coffee in bed this morning. 
I reciprocally brushed and fixed her hair before I left for work.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


My first language is not English, so I probably said it wrong. First language is Afrikaans. 

I meant someone who doesn't have the same standards / morals etc as the man. Who doesn't clash with your level of expectation


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think that when you’re with the “right” person, things just flow. Sure, my husband and I disagree on things but when you have to “remind” someone to be a decent human being, or be kind to you, respect you, etc… it could be that you’re just not compatible with your spouse, anymore. And that’s not a gender-specific observation. There are PLENTY of men on this site alone who have wives who treat them like dirt. I can’t imagine waking up every day to that. 

If there’s genuine love and respect flowing back and forth between a couple in a relationship, there should just be an almost inherent desire to want to help them be their best, and vice versa.

Don’t mind me, just passing through with my random thoughts. ☺


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


In my ex's case (not OP's), she believed she was better than most women if not all, and as she was high in demand I should be lucky to have her and put up with her crap, make the effort etc etc.

She was better than many yes, not all, and high in demand was an hindrance with all the orbiters feeding her ego and expectations that guess who has to bloody forfill?
Doesn't mean I should have had to put up with her crap though, and fk effort if it ain't nothing but 'expectations'


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I guess mine is a lower grade lady as she will call the car dealership to arrange her own maintenance. She also has the ability to communicate what's wrong without nagging like a child. 🤣
> 
> I am super happy to be married to a lower grade woman!


My first language isn't English. Thanks for mocking me that's very childish. 

How many other languages can you speak?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I guess mine is a lower grade lady as she will call the car dealership to arrange her own maintenance. She also has the ability to communicate what's wrong without nagging like a child. 🤣
> 
> I am super happy to be married to a lower grade woman!


There are women who do not nag?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> How many other languages can you speak?


That's not mocking. And anyway, what does this quote have to do with anything? 

My wife is fluent in four languages, is comfortable in several others, and can get by in a few more. Does that make her better than a woman/person who can't? Does that mean I can't make jokes when she can't remember words in English, which also isn't her first language? Does that mean people can't point out when she's wrong?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Bea22 said:


> My first language isn't English. Thanks for mocking me that's very childish.
> 
> How many other languages can you speak?


He wasn't mocking. Just pointing out that his wife doesn't really fit the mold you've laid out. Every relationship is different.

I think some of the specifics of your post are off base, but my take on it as a whole is don't ignore the needs of you spouse and your marriage. I can agree with that.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

This is largely a bunch of self-serving drivel, with a couple valid points that should already be obvious to everyone.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Warning*

@Bea22 the moderators on TAM are all volunteers and we really don't appreciate having to take time out of our working day to clean up after naughty children who can't play nice with the other kids, who keep pushing the boys over and pulling the hair of the other girls.

If you don't appreciate the fact that I have likened you to a naughty child in a playgroup and didn't treat you like an adult then please start acting like an adult.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I hear those bells, way off in the distance.

The message they are conveying is clear, as is crystal.

I get the meaning of those inflections, they are worthy syllables.

It is the tone that is deafening, no, it is deadening.

I close my ears to this cacophony, the small bells sounding, that mere cackling, ring-a-dingy.

I hear many thuds, too few of those melodious vibrating _dongs._

There is no mistake, and no escaping from the bell's rope puller.

She has an agenda, she wants to be indulged, she is that entitled puller of chains and sausages.

It is me that needs some fulfilling, yet, I am her servant.

My heart goes low, timbre goes my goodwill, and my willy retracts, feeling that ice cold, catatonic water.

Some of this ladies bells are cracked and broken, Aye, my needs are left hanging, my testes feel cut off. 

Her bells, my balls, with her the Belle'.

Her loud bells donged, my balls wronged.

Tis' but a power play, that control on her part.

The tone of the bells convey, "I am important, you are not".

"If you make me important, I may allow you some of that".

This is a taste of narcissism at its core.


_*It is not the message, it is the messenger that fails to thrive.
Words and sentiment such as this OP's, fails, each time to win hearts.*_


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


Nagging is a sign of immaturity in a relationship. It might get him to do something out of anger just to shut you up, but it doesn't resolve anything . You also mentioned that he is suffering from depression. Depression shuts people down and they will find a coping mechanism like gaming to deal with it. You can't talk a person out of depression anymore than you can talk a diabetic out of low blood sugar.

Maybe instead of continuing to nag him as you have done for years. How about you encourage him to see a medical professional to treat his depression? Nagging clearly hasn't helped and it won't either. 

As far as this list goes, this feels like someone with a case of princess mentality created this. It's all about me me me! I want it all and want it now or I will start nagging!... I can't imagine any guy wants to be in a marriage of pure servitude. I would also feel depressed and down if I worked full time and then had all these expectations piled on me.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

bobert said:


> That's not mocking. And anyway, what does this quote have to do with anything?
> 
> *My wife is fluent in four languages, is comfortable in several others, and can get by in a few more. Does that make her better than a woman/person who can't? *Does that mean I can't make jokes when she can't remember words in English, which also isn't her first language? Does that mean people can't point out when she's wrong?


Maybe. All I know is she definitely impresses the hell out of me.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We all wish to make our case, in the world of ideas.

The best politicians show honest examples, resolve, and rarely anger.


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> There are women who do not nag?


If there are men who don't leave their dirty socks everywhere, there are!

Just some lighthearted humour! LOL.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

so_sweet said:


> .
> 
> If there are men who don't leave their dirty socks everywhere, there are!
> 
> Just some lighthearted humour! LOL.


Guilty... but the nagging stopped. 

Now she throws out whatever I leave laying around.

RIP socks and guitar picks


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

so_sweet said:


> If there are men who don't leave their dirty socks everywhere, there are!
> 
> Just some lighthearted humour! LOL.


Haven’t you ever heard story of the woman missing her husband’s the dirty socks though. 
😁


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Bea22 said:


> My husband turned to gaming to cope with depression due to issues from work. This caused us immence trouble because I ended up basically raising our daughter alone for 3 years while he wasted money on pc parts and games and emotionaly, sexually abandoned me for years. This is why I wrote this.
> 
> My husband also said I keep nagging and he's so fed up, but he also admit that in the beginning when I nicely mentioned what bothers me, he didn't do anything about it. He basically thought "nah, I'm good **** you". He ADMITTED it!! But later our of desperation I started getting more fierce and telling him straight forward what my concerns are and now I'm nagging???? My point is, why does a woman have to resort to extreme measures to get you to listen. Nagging isnt fun for guys, it certainly isn't fun for us as well, and it's not fun having a man completely disgarding what you're trying to communicate. Guys say nagging is so irritating and it completely makes you feel like you hate her even more, same for us..... Same for us. *sigh


Your husband didn't game due to his depression, he gamed because he wanted to game. No need to make excuses for people. Also, when people "nag", they do that to try and change a behavior in someone else. It's never a good idea to try and change someone else's behavior. I used to, but over time found out it's a losing proposition. You need to change your own behavior and if you do it right, the other person will follow your lead, or if they don't, there's the door. You'll learn this in time.


----------



## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

so_sweet said:


> If there are men who don't leave their dirty socks everywhere, there are!
> 
> Just some lighthearted humour! LOL.


Good news, I don't leave my dirty socks everywhere. I also do my own laundry, so there. 😁


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

ah_sorandy said:


> Good news, I don't leave my dirty socks everywhere. I also do my own laundry, so there. 😁


And if I had any stickers, I would give you one! 

(Just in case it isn't obvious, I'm totally just joking!  )


----------



## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

so_sweet said:


> And if I had any stickers, I would give you one!
> 
> (Just in case it isn't obvious, I'm totally just joking!  )


I just need a GOLD star !!!


----------



## Annonymous Joe (9 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> My husband turned to gaming to cope with depression due to issues from work. This caused us immence trouble because I ended up basically raising our daughter alone for 3 years while he wasted money on pc parts and games and emotionaly, sexually abandoned me for years. This is why I wrote this.
> 
> My husband also said I keep nagging and he's so fed up, but he also admit that in the beginning when I nicely mentioned what bothers me, he didn't do anything about it. He basically thought "nah, I'm good **** you". He ADMITTED it!! But later our of desperation I started getting more fierce and telling him straight forward what my concerns are and now I'm nagging???? My point is, why does a woman have to resort to extreme measures to get you to listen. Nagging isnt fun for guys, it certainly isn't fun for us as well, and it's not fun having a man completely disgarding what you're trying to communicate. Guys say nagging is so irritating and it completely makes you feel like you hate her even more, same for us..... Same for us. *sigh


It all sounds like a communication breakdown...on both sides.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maybe you should show this post to your husband?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Nagging is a sign of immaturity in a relationship. It might get him to do something out of anger just to shut you up, but it doesn't resolve anything . You also mentioned that he is suffering from depression. Depression shuts people down and they will find a coping mechanism like gaming to deal with it. You can't talk a person out of depression anymore than you can talk a diabetic out of low blood sugar.
> 
> Maybe instead of continuing to nag him as you have done for years. How about you encourage him to see a medical professional to treat his depression? Nagging clearly hasn't helped and it won't either.
> 
> ...


I'm absolutely amazed at the responses on this thread, I don't need to put up with nagging?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

bobert said:


> Guilty... but the nagging stopped.
> 
> Now she throws out whatever I leave laying around.
> 
> RIP socks and guitar picks


Lol 😂 now that would work


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In Absentia said:


> Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…


I am absolutely 100% guilty! 😂


----------



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Diceplayer said:


> I heard a story on the radio just yesterday. A wife was upset because her husband spent too much time playing video games instead of being with her. They both had high stress jobs during the week and spent their decompressing but she wanted to spend her time with him. She admitted that she nagged him about it and he just dove deeper into the games. So she decided to quit nagging. On the weekends while he was playing games, she would get a book and curl up next to him and read. They would talk and enjoy their time together. This led to him quitting his gaming earlier than usual and taking her on date nights.
> 
> In the OP, you list a lot of things that a man must do. I get it, women are complicated. On the other hand, all a woman has to do is provide food, sex and back rubs. If a woman does that, a man will do anything for his woman. Women have the power in a marriage to build it up or tear it down. Nagging tears it down and pushes a man further away. On the other hand, if a woman will treat her man sweetly and kindly, being his girlfriend instead of a nag, there's nothing that he won't do for her.


Here’s the thing- as a girlfriend I didn’t cook, clean, pay , or raise kids for my husband. I was a girl. Boys and girls mature.,wives don’t just look hot and provide sex. If a guy doesn’t want to live in reality, don’t get married.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In Absentia said:


> Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…


You gonna nag us now? 😅


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Bea22 said:


> Yes of course it's a two way street and nobody is perfect. I've seen it just too much where men don't understand why their woman is unhappy and I just tried to share the "overall" stance from a woman's point of view. You do get ***es who treat their men like ** but just like men, I believe they're the expectation to the rule. Most ppl try their best. This isn't a rule for ALL men that all of men do this wrong. It's just something general I've picked up on. For example, my one friends gf left him after "nagging" (his words) him for years. She just left. And he was dumbfounded. Well, needless to say she wanted more and later stopped asking. Then there's nothing left.
> 
> As regards for the expectations, I don't mean in a controlling way. I mean in a way of she sees potential and want the best for you and the relationship. For example, my husband was a gaming addict and my expectation were that he quit completely. Not because I'm a *** or want to control him but because it wasn't good for him and our relationship.
> 
> Hope you understand.


Many times the unhappiness is of their own doing. They get too much in their head and create their own pressures, which they then take out on hubby. Then hubby is doing all he can to help her but it is never enough or it was not done how she would have done it. 

How many times did I hear, "I have to do everything around here." Ok sweetheart! Let's exchange lists! Mine is longer and includes the physically demanding things along with 1/2 the household stuff. So don't even tell me you do everything. 

Then has the audacity to say, "What? Do you want me to give you a cookie?" That was what did it. Yeah...trying to do everything I can to make her happy, being treated this way and physical intimacy 3x month. 

Plan A..Lost 60 lbs in 6 weeks, buffed up, become more aloof and quit tolerating her ****.

If that did not work..Plan B. Divorce with 2 kids under 8 because I was done. She thought I was already gone.

Now marriage is better than ever, sex 4-5x week, never fight, spend all our time together now we both work from home.Still refuse to tolerate **** being thrown


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…


Yeah, 100% guilty as well. I may do the same with pants... 🤐


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> That's not mocking. And anyway, what does this quote have to do with anything?
> 
> My wife is fluent in four languages, is comfortable in several others, and can get by in a few more. Does that make her better than a woman/person who can't? Does that mean I can't make jokes when she can't remember words in English, which also isn't her first language? Does that mean people can't point out when she's wrong?





MattMatt said:


> *Moderator Warning*
> 
> @Bea22 the moderators on TAM are all volunteers and we really don't appreciate having to take time out of our working
> 
> If you don't appreciate the fact that I have likened you to a naughty child in a playgroup and didn't treat you like an adult then please start acting like an adult.





ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Nagging is a sign of immaturity in a relationship. It might get him to do something out of anger just to shut you up, but it doesn't resolve anything . You also mentioned that he is suffering from depression. Depression shuts people down and they will find a coping mechanism like gaming to deal with it. You can't talk a person out of depression anymore than you can talk a diabetic out of low blood sugar.
> 
> Maybe instead of continuing to nag him as you have done for years. How about you encourage him to see a medical professional to treat his depression? Nagging clearly hasn't helped and it won't either.
> 
> ...





In Absentia said:


> Maybe you should show this post to your husband?


I did actually 😜 no kidding.... And he knew I ported it. Haha..... This is why I'm buffed at the responses here. My hubby too full responsibility of his actions and neglect over the years and since he kicked his addiction and went for therapy for a loooong time, we are at a better place ever. Did I have faults? Yes. I also worked on mine.
My first language just isn't what everyone else is, om not from the UK or America. But I sure as hell won't post again on here again.
Thanks everyone, enjoy


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Bye-bye!😄😁


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

Prodigal said:


> Bye-bye!😄😁


👋


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I work regularly with at least 7 colleagues who have Afrikaans as their first language. (My employer is an international concern with two branches in South Africa) 

None of them have any difficulties in communicating with their UK, American or Australian colleagues.


----------



## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> I work regularly with at least 7 colleagues who have Afrikaans as their first language. (My employer is an international concern with two branches in South Africa)
> 
> None of them have any difficulties in communicating with their UK, American or Australian colleagues.


Great stuff. Good for them ✌👌


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lets focus on the thread. 
I'd like to discuss nagging 🤗

EDIT: Well, guess not 🤦‍♂️


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> You gonna nag us now? 😅


I don't nag. The meaning of that word is unknown to me...


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…


Of course they do, silly rabbit. My man didn't because he was trained right - right out of the gate.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Annonymous Joe said:


> It all sounds like a communication breakdown...on both sides.


Love that song by Led Zep


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

snowbum said:


> Here’s the thing- as a girlfriend I didn’t cook, clean, pay , or raise kids for my husband. I was a girl. Boys and girls mature.,wives don’t just look hot and provide sex. If a guy doesn’t want to live in reality, don’t get married.


So living in reality gives a wife the excuse to turn into a b****? My wife and I will be married 49 years this month. During that time we have faced a lot of adversity. Nearly went bankrupt, child with cancer, you know, everyday issues. Yet, while living in reality, she is still my girlfriend. She dresses cute, we have date night at least once a week, she sits on my lap, we have sex 2-4 times per week. Why? She made that choice.

So your marriage can be something that just happens and you're along for the ride, or you can choose how it goes. Marriage is like most other things; the result of the choices we make.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Of course they do, silly rabbit. My man didn't because he was trained right - right out of the gate.


well, I'm shocked...


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I guess mine is a lower grade lady as she will call the car dealership to arrange her own maintenance. She also has the ability to communicate what's wrong without nagging like a child. 🤣
> 
> I am super happy to be married to a lower grade woman!


I send my car for maintenance all the time. It's my car so why not?


----------



## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Do you guys really leave dirty socks around? I hope it’s a joke…





ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I am absolutely 100% guilty! 😂





bobert said:


> Yeah, 100% guilty as well. I may do the same with pants... 🤐


Add my husband to the list!


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Bea22 said:


> But I sure as hell won't post again on here again.


I always have respect for people who say what they mean and mean what they say.😂


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

so_sweet said:


> Add my husband to the list!


How can people do that? I mean, they are not children… I wouldn’t put up with it.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Bea22 said:


> Yes of course it's a two way street and nobody is perfect. I've seen it just too much where men don't understand why their woman is unhappy and I just tried to share the "overall" stance from a woman's point of view. You do get ***es who treat their men like ** but just like men, I believe they're the expectation to the rule. Most ppl try their best. This isn't a rule for ALL men that all of men do this wrong. It's just something general I've picked up on. For example, my one friends gf left him after "nagging" (his words) him for years. She just left. And he was dumbfounded. Well, needless to say she wanted more and later stopped asking. Then there's nothing left.
> 
> As regards for the expectations, I don't mean in a controlling way. I mean in a way of she sees potential and want the best for you and the relationship. For example, my husband was a gaming addict and my expectation were that he quit completely. Not because I'm a *** or want to control him but because it wasn't good for him and our relationship.
> 
> Hope you understand.


Question is this, what was she nagging your friend about? It makes all the difference in the world. I believe he is better off with out her.

Also, there are “men” out there that have no clue when it comes to doing anything you listed in your first post. My kids have stories about some of their friends and I just shake my head in disbelief. Driving a car making a noise until the rotor breaks away from the hub.

You are asking for something that this new generation of boys have no clue about. They haven’t been raised to be men, they have been raised to be feminist.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> How can people do that? I mean, they are not children… I wouldn’t put up with it.


A mix of laziness and a learned behavior so I don't really even think about it. 

Somedays my wife is a broken record with "don't put it down, put it away".


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...



Women, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart: this is my point of view as a man who has been married to @Akinaura for 14 years. 

Show up naked. Bring beer. 



Man, I should do this for a living...


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

bobert said:


> A mix of laziness and a learned behavior so I don't really even think about it.
> 
> Somedays my wife is a broken record with "don't put it down, put it away".


amazing...


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Netflix has a great informative documentary on right now called "The Pleasure Principle" - any husband who watches this, learns, opens a dialogue with his wife and puts some of this into practice will be likely a husband who is going to be having regular sex. God bless all you men - I love men - but honeys, you have got to learn how to turn up the tap on your wife's pleasure. Don Juan didn't have a big dong - Don Juan knew what makes women tick - and took pleasure in her pleasure. Now, don't be mad that I said this - I have practiced what I preach - I invested years of time watching videos, reading books, and having a great time pleasuring my husband, like a good girl. But one thing that's missing is the reverse. Women who are properly pleasured are a wellspring of all kinds of affection!


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

aine said:


> Some good points here but I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship? You say women have the power to build up the marriage or tear it down, to me this sounds like another version of , if you accept him as he is, put up and shut up, all will be well. This thinking is perpetrated over and over again in homes, by churches, etc. and is basically a firm of emotional abuse. why can’t a man listen to his wife’s concerns and be mature enough to listen? It all smacks of immaturity and selfishness, prioritising themselves. I’m not saying females are not selfish but some men are simply not selfless enough to be married and think they can continue to put themselves first in a relationship, as long as they get food and sex, all is well. This is a very superficial assessment on the whole.
> let me ask yiu, how well would you treat a colleague if they treated you like ****, disrespected you every day , would yiu be kind and patient. This is pure misogyny.


I think you're misunderstanding what we're trying to say. So I'll give it a shot.

One, this should be more of a cycle where both meet each other's needs. There is a misconception the guy getting his needs met is the end result of a process that starts with the woman getting hers. This is a crap attitude.

If I'm not fixing the leak or putting gas in your car, how about you ask yourself why rather than nag? Have you been meeting my wants or do you expect yours to come first? Is this the latest addition to a "honey-do" list already a dozen items long?

Are you treating me like what I want matters as much as what you want?

Two, men don't expect women to be the keepers of the relationship. But, our needs are simple and as you've admitted women tend to not be. So knowing exactly how to float your man's boat, if you won't spend 15 minutes taking care of me how are you going to ask me to exert much more effort to take care of you?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


Right?

Also, any of the women I know who have a list like this won't hold themselves to the same standard.

That IS a lower-class woman.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

bobert said:


> A mix of laziness and a learned behavior so I don't really even think about it.
> 
> *Somedays my wife is a broken record with "don't put it down, put it away".*


Your wife does have five (5) children (er, make that six) to train.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

DTO said:


> I think you're misunderstanding what we're trying to say. So I'll give it a shot.
> 
> One, this should be more of a cycle where both meet each other's needs. There is a misconception the guy getting his needs met is the end result of a process that starts with the woman getting hers. This is a crap attitude.
> 
> ...


This isn’t “I will if you will” It’s not 50-50 and keeping score. That’s a sure fire way to be unhappy in a marriage.
Women approach the marriage relationship differently. Setting aside assholes of both sexes, let’s just try to discuss how to bridge the gap of differences. Instead of ridiculing women for not behaving the way a man thinks she oughtta, the guy or guys who are willing to develop the skills to connect, those are the guys who are going to be having a fantastic time.
I know, for instance, that I (like so many women) tend to juggle a lot of tasks in my mind. It’s great when I get some nice interactions from my husband throughout the day. That is foreplay to me. Ridiculing my foreplay as “well that’s not sex” is an immediate turnoff.I approach sex in building blocks.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Your wife does have five (5) children (er, make that six) to train.


Well, maybe I'd be easier to train if she gave me a cool laundry hamper too  Act like a child, get treated like a child?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

happiness27 said:


> This isn’t “I will if you will” It’s not 50-50 and keeping score. That’s a sure fire way to be unhappy in a marriage.
> Women approach the marriage relationship differently. Setting aside assholes of both sexes, let’s just try to discuss how to bridge the gap of differences. Instead of ridiculing women for not behaving the way a man thinks she oughtta, the guy or guys who are willing to develop the skills to connect, those are the guys who are going to be having a fantastic time.
> I know, for instance, that I (like so many women) tend to juggle a lot of tasks in my mind. It’s great when I get some nice interactions from my husband throughout the day. That is foreplay to me. Ridiculing my foreplay as “well that’s not sex” is an immediate turnoff.I approach sex in building blocks.


You may be misunderstanding me. I am not saying "if you will, then I will". I am saying "we both will, together". That is just living out the concept that neither's wants or needs matter more than the other's.

To your example, why does sex HAVE to come after foreplay? Why not before, knowing you are going to get that attention anyways? If your drive is low, do you expect yours anyways?

If you absolutely must come first, then you should examine why. As a man, I find it repugnant some ladies feel it's okay to put the man last as a rule because that's inherently unequal. It's saying "you'll get what's left over" and it's fairly common.

Sorry if that offends you. But I'm with the NMMNG school of thought on this.


----------



## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


Hello good point. Can't have dumb comments like, two way street. As a man who gets it.
Communication is key, inability to express needs, wants, loves, desires to each other, and get them without force or emotionally hurting each other is a skill we don't learn at all, even to the day we die. We are emotionally stupid. If you don't ask for something, discuss it, negotiate it to get each other's needs met you will never get it. Never!
It matters even to the minutes peck on the cheek on the way to the bathroom. It's all in the details.
See all you can read by Dr. Gottman, and the scchlessinger book propper care and feeding of marriage.
Good luck


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

DTO said:


> You may be misunderstanding me. I am not saying "if you will, then I will". I am saying "we both will, together". That is just living out the concept that neither's wants or needs matter more than the other's.
> 
> To your example, why does sex HAVE to come after foreplay? Why not before, knowing you are going to get that attention anyways? If your drive is low, do you expect yours anyways?
> 
> ...


Why does sex have to come after foreplay instead of before foreplay? Answer: women's anatomy. A woman who is not "ready" (read: lubricated...turned on...) isn't ready to have sexual penetration. So, it's literally painful and unhealthy since it leads to micro-tears which open a women's tissues to infection.

Yes, a man likely needs to understand that a woman comes first in the sexual scenario situation - there's even a book by that title. It has to do with female anatomy.

I have to chuckle a little at "put the man last as a rule because that's inherently unequal." Boy-howdy, is there a woman anywhere who doesn't understand "unequal"? For as far back as time itself, men have been the dominate gender who is viewed as the one whose needs should be serviced. It's everywhere in society. Literally everywhere from porn to sports to work environments and positions. Women are cheerleaders, support roles and sexual objects.

Women are simply physically created differently than men. Plainly. Simply. A woman can not change her anatomy to be any different in its requirement to be "turned on" to become lubricated enough or ready enough to get into pleasuring. Just because you are ready to have sex doesn't mean she is. Not caring about that fact should be and often is a deal-breaker. Any kind of dry contact with a woman's genitals is painful - not fun - not sexy - a turnoff. There's even a woman comedian who completely addresses this issue, driving the point home that even dry fingering is just mad.

And the biggest factor for a woman, sexually, is her brain - her thinking. That's where the sexual triggers are. Men who understand this and take pleasure in HER pleasure - have a LOT of sex.

Try thinking of it this way. If your sexual encounters only resulted in an orgasm 1/3 of the time or even 1/2 the time, how interested would you be in having sex? Saying to that person, "well, fix your sexual triggers yourself - MAKE yourself ready for sex" - is not fostering a loving, interactive relationship.

Expecting a woman to service you as an act of love for you - and giving her scraps in return - that relationship is going to fail in that department. And women are very intuitive. If they sense that you are pouting because she won't service you, that's a tension for her. Fellatio - or any other sexual act - must be happily and freely agreed upon by BOTH parties. If she doesn't provide fellatio, you are NOT "entitled" to it. NO, you are not. Fellatio does not = love. Do not equate it with that.

This concept of low sex drive in women sort of fascinates me. I wonder how many women walking around with the idea that they just don't have a strong sex drive - simply haven't given themselves permission to own their own pleasure? How many of these women have simply accepted that their sexual role is to please their man and that their own pleasure is an afterthought? I mean, who is going to be excited about sex if they don't get pleasure from it most of the time?

Women are starting to wake up to the fact that they don't have to live their lives being the cheerleader and customer service operator for a men.

It doesn't make a man less of a man if he knows his woman so well lovingly and sexually that he keeps her engaged by making sure she is enjoying her life and sex in a way that SHE understands it.

When you bring up BJ without foreplay for the woman, you absolutely putting your partner in the position of servicing you. This is not a loving request. It's a selfish request. If a woman WANTS to perform fellatio, then she will. EXPECTING her to is not the same - and it's a slippery slope to pout and complain that she isn't doing that without you engaging her as well. Oh, wait, AFTERWARDS you will pay some attention to her - after the fire of your passion has gone out and you half-heartedly attempt to bring her to pleasure in a way that YOU understand how to attain pleasure (rubbing her genitals or licking and thinking to your now-sleepy self 'I hope this works pretty soon'). The reason "she comes first" is because IT WORKS for both people - not just you. Men who have finally cleared this hurdle of understanding are - having amazing sex more often than men who refuse to acknowledge the intricacies of the woman's pleasure and just keep hitting the sex button in the same way with the same hammer.

If you truly, truly want to make an amazing change for the better - it's going to require you to completely let go of your present thinking. Wipe the slate clean and start over. NONE of us were taught sex in a sensible, real way. It's completely understandable that we are still in this conundrum of confusion about how sex works. If there is anything that would be amazing about this idea of starting over, learning anew - it's that the future holds infinite greater pleasure possibilities - BIG TIME intimacy and amazing connection that pole-vaults relationships into a whole new realm. It's totally worth it. Check out Pleasure Principle on Netflix. Immerse yourself and your mind and ask for guidance and understanding from your partner.

My only point in responding here is to break down the barriers of selfish sex and open the gate to something far, far better: true intimacy that holds a much more intense sexual and relationship experience.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

She Comes First - Ian Kerner, seems to be a fairly popular book. I haven't personally read it but my husband has.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> Why does sex have to come after foreplay instead of before foreplay? Answer: women's anatomy. A woman who is not "ready" (read: lubricated...turned on...) isn't ready to have sexual penetration. So, it's literally painful and unhealthy since it leads to micro-tears which open a women's tissues to infection.
> 
> Yes, a man likely needs to understand that a woman comes first in the sexual scenario situation - there's even a book by that title. It has to do with female anatomy.
> 
> ...


bottom line: Make sure she cums first. A good rule to follow.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> bottom line: Make sure she cums first. A good rule to follow.


yeah, I guess a limp stick is not much fun for her...


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> bottom line: Make sure she cums first. A good rule to follow.


I mean, seriously, pleasuring a woman is a mad skill.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> yeah, I guess a limp stick is not much fun for her...


indeed


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> I mean, seriously, pleasuring a woman is a mad skill.


takes a lot of time and talent. Even then, after doing your 100 percent best, she still may not get there. Maddening! fun, but maddening.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> takes a lot of time and talent. Even then, after doing your 100 percent best, she still may not get there. Maddening! fun, but maddening.


I've been lucky.... my wife could come easily, even with PIV... not much effort there... lol


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> yeah, I guess a limp stick is not much fun for her...


I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own. I mean, women can still experience pleasure with fingering, cunnilingus, dildo or a combination of these things and doesn't need her partner to be erect anymore...but what she does need to feel from him is that he is "into" what he is doing to pleasure her. Kinda the same engaged possibly that a man hopes to have if a woman is performing fellatio - so that excitement of pleasuring the partner. But, again, I don't know what this feels like from a guy's standpoint. I know, for me, I fall into this worry and concern that he's no longer engaged and having fun. So, how do you approach that mental challenge with your woman?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I've been lucky.... my wife could come easily, even with PIV... not much effort there... lol


a rare woman there. she ever has had the PIV orgasm in 30 years with me, Just not wired that way


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own. I mean, women can still experience pleasure with fingering, cunnilingus, dildo or a combination of these things and doesn't need her partner to be erect anymore...but what she does need to feel from him is that he is "into" what he is doing to pleasure her. Kinda the same engaged possibly that a man hopes to have if a woman is performing fellatio - so that excitement of pleasuring the partner. But, again, I don't know what this feels like from a guy's standpoint. I know, for me, I fall into this worry and concern that he's no longer engaged and having fun. So, how do you approach that mental challenge with your woman?


always put the focus on her enjoyment first. With ED, i need time to get ready. Foreplay is the answer. Seems to work for us. i've been told I focus to much on her enjoyment. Fine. Whatever. Just want her to have some fun. That's what it's all about. Well, that and the emotional closeness. Fellatio is part of our experience probably 9 o 10 times. Both enjoy.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> always put the focus on her enjoyment first. With ED, i need time to get ready. Foreplay is the answer. Seems to work for us. i've been told I focus to much on her enjoyment. Fine. Whatever. Just want her to have some fun. That's what it's all about. Well, that and the emotional closeness. Fellatio is part of our experience probably 9 o 10 times. Both enjoy.


I think of the sex act like a symphony, for those who understand the classic structure of a symphony. It BUILDS and peaks.

Or, if you like, on a scale of 1 to 10, where you get to 7 or 8, then take it all the way to 10.

What's frustrating is if it goes to 5 and then goes down or 7 or 8 and then goes down, over and over - that can get frustrating and feel like quitting if there isn't an indication that there's going to be that final push.

The crazy thing is that this building of foreplay, for women, can happen over the course of a day and she can be at a 4 or 5 already by the time sex is going to happen. But, then, he decides to pull out a bag of Cheetos for a snack before bedtime...


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I wonder why they didn't close this thread when they banned the person who created it. She's not here to defend herself. This is the same poster whose husband lost attraction for her because she wasn't an anorexic bony teenager anymore and got healthy. Sad.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> I think of the sex act like a symphony, for those who understand the classic structure of a symphony. It BUILDS and peaks.
> 
> Or, if you like, on a scale of 1 to 10, where you get to 7 or 8, then take it all the way to 10.
> 
> ...


I do love Cheetos with cold beer and a ballgame on TV.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> You may be misunderstanding me. I am not saying "if you will, then I will". I am saying "we both will, together". That is just living out the concept that neither's wants or needs matter more than the other's.
> 
> To your example, why does sex HAVE to come after foreplay? Why not before, knowing you are going to get that attention anyways? If your drive is low, do you expect yours anyways?
> 
> ...


It's because most guys just go right to sleep once they're finished. So I would say if your woman is wanting to get it first before you collapse, that that is much more of a compliment than not caring if you go ahead and roll over and fall asleep on them, which means they're just as happy to have it over with.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

happiness27 said:


> I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own. I mean, women can still experience pleasure with fingering, cunnilingus, dildo or a combination of these things and doesn't need her partner to be erect anymore...but what she does need to feel from him is that he is "into" what he is doing to pleasure her. Kinda the same engaged possibly that a man hopes to have if a woman is performing fellatio - so that excitement of pleasuring the partner. But, again, I don't know what this feels like from a guy's standpoint. I know, for me, I fall into this worry and concern that he's no longer engaged and having fun. So, how do you approach that mental challenge with your woman?


I've had instances where I orgasmed first, she had not and we continued to play until she did, either with my hands or a toy. It just remained playful and fun. I've always told her that if I don't get her there before I orgasm I'm here for ya, lol. Also, to answer a question you posed in an earlier post about how interested would you be in sex if you only orgasmed 1/2 or 1/3 of the time. I went through a period of time where I had difficulty orgasming, at about that frequency. It didn't deter my desire for sex at all. In fact it may have motivated me more, since I thought, well I'll get off the next time. It was also a great opportunity to explore things with my wife that I could before, like very long sex sessions beyond what I was capable of previously. Or sex many times in a day, since I didn't have a refractory period to deal with. Personally I would much prefer to orgasm, who doesn't, but it did really change my desire to have sex with my wife.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

happiness27 said:


> Why does sex have to come after foreplay instead of before foreplay? Answer: women's anatomy. A woman who is not "ready" (read: lubricated...turned on...) isn't ready to have sexual penetration. So, it's literally painful and unhealthy since it leads to micro-tears which open a women's tissues to infection.
> 
> Yes, a man likely needs to understand that a woman comes first in the sexual scenario situation - there's even a book by that title. It has to do with female anatomy.
> 
> ...


Um, you completely missed my point with all that verbiage. I agree it's in the brain mostly. And I understand that foreplay is not just sexual in nature - all the interactions over time contribute towards feeling bonded and sexually attracted.

I don't force anyone to have sex. My point simply was that if I engage lovingly regularly and there is sporadic sexual interest, that's not necessarily the guy's fault. There might be some base compatibility / attraction issue or the lady might have some issues.

In a relationship, I do exactly what is noted here. But if it gets taken for granted and not reciprocated, that eventually becomes a problem. Everyday service for sporadic attention back is a losing deal for me. 

Again I agree completely that ladies need to have their needs met before responding sexually, and it's my job to create a supportive and loving environment which nurtures that responsiveness. It's NOT my responsibility to actually make her horny, because she is not a robot I can program. It's her job to place herself in a receptive mood.

That's why I say it's more of a cycle. If I'm meeting her needs and that feelings just not there, time to move on.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

happiness27 said:


> *Why does sex have to come after foreplay instead of before foreplay?* Answer: women's anatomy. A woman who is not "ready" (read: lubricated...turned on...) isn't ready to have sexual penetration. So, it's literally painful and unhealthy since it leads to micro-tears which open a women's tissues to infection.


Good, Lord! Why does this question bring this movie to mind:





Must sit on my hands or else...


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own. I mean, women can still experience pleasure with fingering, cunnilingus, dildo or a combination of these things and doesn't need her partner to be erect anymore...but what she does need to feel from him is that he is "into" what he is doing to pleasure her. Kinda the same engaged possibly that a man hopes to have if a woman is performing fellatio - so that excitement of pleasuring the partner. But, again, I don't know what this feels like from a guy's standpoint. I know, for me, I fall into this worry and concern that he's no longer engaged and having fun. So, how do you approach that mental challenge with your woman?


I'm sure it varies but men can definitely still be into it afterward. Just because they "finished" doesn't mean it's actually over.

In my case, foreplay pretty much always comes first. If my wife isn't into it, it's because she really doesn't want to have sex and just wants to get it over with. I'm not into that so I wouldn't want it either. For years the chance of her orgasming was about 0%. We finally got that figured out and now it's close to 100% of the time, but only from oral. Nothing else does anything for her. So she can orgasm before PIV but she gets extremely sensitive and sore, making PIV uncomfortable and painful. If she's pregnant it's even worse because of the contractions and pressure from orgasming. So the solution to that is foreplay until "warmed up" not until completion, then PIV, then back to oral for her. It's not an issue for me. 

There are also plenty of times when I go into it just wanting to do it for her, with nothing in return. That doesn't make me any less into it. If I want to I can orgasm while going down on my wife and it's not like I just stop because I'm done. I'm still just as into it. I want her to orgasm. That's kinda the goal in my head every time (even though it maybe shouldn't be) and it's a let down when she doesn't (again it shouldn't be but...). Making her feel good, making her orgasm, I get pleasure from that. It doesn't always have to be physical pleasure. If a guy really doesn't care about it, then it may be a different story.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's because most guys just go right to sleep once they're finished. So I would say if your woman is wanting to get it first before you collapse, that that is much more of a compliment than not caring if you go ahead and roll over and fall asleep on them, which means they're just as happy to have it over with.


I don't mean just sex - not sure how much more plainly I can make that point. I am talking about the totality of our interactions and creating a safe, nurturing environment. I am saying that if I regularly keep the fires warm and meet her needs (not just in the bedroom), then the actual sex should come regularly as well. We shouldn't be in a habit where sex happens after everything else is done.

It needs to be a virtuous cycle because I need that energy to feel loved and invested as well. If I put forth that effort and energy and get nothing back, I'll be the one checking out. Just like every other guy on TAM or other forum whose feelings fade when the sex dries up or (from the other side) every lady who complains that she doesn't want sex for her own reasons and resents that without sex her partner doesn't treat her the same.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> I don't mean just sex - not sure how much more plainly I can make that point. I am talking about the totality of our interactions and creating a safe, nurturing environment. I am saying that if I regularly keep the fires warm and meet her needs (not just in the bedroom), then the actual sex should come regularly as well. We shouldn't be in a habit where sex happens after everything else is done.
> 
> It needs to be a virtuous cycle because I need that energy to feel loved and invested as well. If I put forth that effort and energy and get nothing back, I'll be the one checking out. Just like every other guy on TAM or other forum whose feelings fade when the sex dries up or (from the other side) every lady who complains that she doesn't want sex for her own reasons and resents that without sex her partner doesn't treat her the same.


And that's for the best.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DTO said:


> I don't mean just sex - not sure how much more plainly I can make that point. *I am talking about the totality of our interactions and creating a safe, nurturing environment.* I am saying that if I regularly keep the fires warm and meet her needs (not just in the bedroom), then the actual sex should come regularly as well. We shouldn't be in a habit where sex happens after everything else is done.
> 
> It needs to be a virtuous cycle because I need that energy to feel loved and invested as well. If I put forth that effort and energy and get nothing back, I'll be the one checking out. Just like every other guy on TAM or other forum whose feelings fade when the sex dries up or (from the other side) every lady who complains that she doesn't want sex for her own reasons and resents that without sex her partner doesn't treat her the same.


I agree with this completely. And I would like to see women acknowledge that we aren't the only one's who need to "feel safe" in our relationships. Women have just as much of a responsibility to make their male partners feel safe and supported emotionally as they expect from their men.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I wonder why they didn't close this thread when they banned the person who created it. She's not here to defend herself. This is the same poster whose husband lost attraction for her because she wasn't an anorexic bony teenager anymore and got healthy. Sad.


The discussion is still continuing, so that is probably why. 

I didn't see anyone attacking her...did I miss that?


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

DTO said:


> I don't mean just sex - not sure how much more plainly I can make that point. I am talking about the totality of our interactions and creating a safe, nurturing environment. I am saying that if I regularly keep the fires warm and meet her needs (not just in the bedroom), then the actual sex should come regularly as well. We shouldn't be in a habit where sex happens after everything else is done.
> 
> It needs to be a virtuous cycle because I need that energy to feel loved and invested as well. If I put forth that effort and energy and get nothing back, I'll be the one checking out. Just like every other guy on TAM or other forum whose feelings fade when the sex dries up or (from the other side) every lady who complains that she doesn't want sex for her own reasons and resents that without sex her partner doesn't treat her the same.


Meeting needs other than the bedroom IMPROVES and ENHANCES the bedroom. 

We've got to get away from the "trade-off" mentality and start reveling in the enjoyment of the little things. It's like you can gulp a meal or you can savor a meal. Like that.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> The discussion is still continuing, so that is probably why.
> 
> I didn't see anyone attacking her...did I miss that?


Uh, apparently.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

happiness27 said:


> I mean, seriously, pleasuring a woman is a mad skill.


I get that done too. Being 50 and having taken 6 months of nasty chemo has made changes in technique necessary, but it's nearly 100%.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree with this completely. And I would like to see women acknowledge that we aren't the only one's who need to "feel safe" in our relationships. Women have just as much of a responsibility to make their male partners feel safe and supported emotionally as they expect from their men.


And we also need to get past the concept that it's a "responsibility" or "obligation" - a partnership is a happy agreement between both people. If each, one or both, people are wagging fingers at each other saying, in essence, "You OWE me this because I do that..." it's just going to be a mess. Resentment stinks and feeling like you're not enough or you are acting out of obligation is just not a pleasant way to live.

I recommend to all couples (who are physically able) to take walks together every day they can, holding hands, no phones, 20-30 minutes, no business or negative talk. Take a freakin' break together. These seemingly little bitty acts are bridge-building to happiness. Make up your minds to be happy in yourself and then each other. 

I just see a bunch of resentments getting posted here - like she won't do this for me so I stopped doing what SHE wanted. THAT ought to get her attention...yeah, but, do you want that kind of negative attention?

There's a story I read once called "A new pair of glasses" - where a guy was complaining and complaining about his wife. Someone suggested to him that instead of complaining about her that he put on a "new pair of glasses" and start treating her differently - complimenting her, kissing her, hugging her, just going out of his way to notice all the little things and speak up to her about those things. Well, what do you know - pretty soon his wife's attitude and behaviors turned around and became the same loving ways back towards him.

Nothing changes unless we change ourselves first.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

DTO said:


> I get that done too. Being 50 and having taken 6 months of nasty chemo has made changes in technique necessary, but it's nearly 100%.


God bless you - and thank you for sharing that experience.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

happiness27 said:


> Meeting needs other than the bedroom IMPROVES and ENHANCES the bedroom.
> 
> We've got to get away from the "trade-off" mentality and start reveling in the enjoyment of the little things. It's like you can gulp a meal or you can savor a meal. Like that.


Yes I get that. But the reverse applies also and at least some ladies get that and act on it.

Maybe I'm the odd one out. But if I'm bringing ongoing effort and she's not bringing the same level of effort, eventually I'll burn out. It's not a quid pro quo thing but an "empty love tank" thing. Sex isn't more important, but it isn't less important.

And yes I own it. There's a lot of people out there who believe lack of sex is not a valid reason to e d a relationship - need to weed them out.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

☹


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

happiness27 said:


> I just see a bunch of resentments getting posted here - like she won't do this for me so I stopped doing what SHE wanted. THAT ought to get her attention...yeah, but, do you want that kind of negative attention?


You've seen the resentments posted by women towards men too, right?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

happiness27 said:


> *Meeting needs other than the bedroom IMPROVES and ENHANCES the bedroom.*
> 
> We've got to get away from the "trade-off" mentality and start reveling in the enjoyment of the little things. It's like you can gulp a meal or you can savor a meal. Like that.


Unfortunately, that's not always true. It absolutely was NOT for me.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> Unfortunately, that's not always true. It absolutely was NOT for me.


Exactly. LOTS of people do believe sex should come last, not important to a relationship, is "the icing on the cake", etc.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Unfortunately, that's not always true. It absolutely was NOT for me.


Me either


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DTO said:


> Exactly. LOTS of people do believe sex should come last, not important to a relationship, is "the icing on the cake", etc.


RIGHT. But for me, sex is the only reason I will agree to be monogamous, so it's actually the MOST important part of the relationship...it's the only thing I cannot do with anyone else, and have agreed never to do with anyone else.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> RIGHT. But for me, sex is the only reason I will agree to be monogamous, so it's actually the MOST important part of the relationship...it's the only thing I cannot do with anyone else, and have agreed never to do with anyone else.


Exactly how I feel as well. And, I need to feel it's as much a priority as the other care and nurturing that go into the relationship.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> RIGHT. But for me, sex is the only reason I will agree to be monogamous, so it's actually the MOST important part of the relationship...it's the only thing I cannot do with anyone else, and have agreed never to do with anyone else.


If sex is "the last important" part of a relationship then why even be in a relationship? You can get what you need from a good friend, or a roommate, or a dog.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Numb26 said:


> If sex is "the last important" part of a relationship then why even be in a relationship? You can get what you need from a good friend, or a roommate, or a dog.


Again, not everybody prioritizes sex, some people don't even marry for love.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DTO said:


> Again, not everybody prioritizes sex, some people don't even marry for love.


And the number of people willing to LIE about their priorities in a relationship is scary.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

DTO said:


> Again, not everybody prioritizes sex, some people don't even marry for love.


Yes, some people do have predatory reasons for marriage


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

happiness27 said:


> I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own. I mean, women can still experience pleasure with fingering, cunnilingus, dildo or a combination of these things and doesn't need her partner to be erect anymore...but what she does need to feel from him is that he is "into" what he is doing to pleasure her. Kinda the same engaged possibly that a man hopes to have if a woman is performing fellatio - so that excitement of pleasuring the partner. But, again, I don't know what this feels like from a guy's standpoint. I know, for me, I fall into this worry and concern that he's no longer engaged and having fun. So, how do you approach that mental challenge with your woman?


Just a quick reply, as a "guy"...it's happened - me coming first. In that case, we would work together to stimulate me so I can get erect again and carry on, until she has an orgasm. I would rarely get a second orgasm, but that's not the point. So, yes, very engaged. If you love your partner, you want to do all you can to make him/her happy. I thought this would be normal behaviour in a couple. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> If sex is "the last important" part of a relationship then why even be in a relationship? You can get what you need from a good friend, or a roommate, or a dog.


Well, yes, you can have sex with a good friend or a roommate but a...? Do I need to start giving you the side eye?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, yes, you can have sex with a good friend or a roommate but a...? Do I need to start giving you the side eye?


I wasn't talking about sex. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I meant the other parts of companionship


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> I'm not sure from a man's perspective - and I'd love to hear honest responses - how engaged in the sexual encounter he would still be after having an orgasm of his own.


Um, very.

It’s not a simple function but I think there is a correlation between my wife having an orgasm each time and her being more interested in sex overall.

Fortunately for whatever reason at this point in life if I pop early I can normally maintain my erection long enough for her. I typically do kegels the whole time to make sure blood is getting in there.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Fortunately for whatever reason at this point in life if I pop early I can normally maintain my erection long enough for her. I typically do kegels the whole time to make sure blood is getting in there.


Yes, I could still maintain an erection for a few minutes, until my wife would have hers... even in my fifties. These days I don't have to "worry" about that...


----------



## Wifeisagiver (9 mo ago)

44 years this July and loving her more and more every day


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## HairyMama (9 mo ago)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


Girl - you got that right. Planning to divorce in a. few years, just waiting for my kids to grow up and go off to college first.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bea22 said:


> All Men, I hope you read this and I hope you take this to heart. This is my point of view as a woman who has been married to my husband for 7 years and lately I've seen many couples breaking up because of a recurring reason. Feeling at a brink of filing for divorce after being repeatedly hurt. Some may think I'm lying. Some may comment nasty things and some may roll their eyes, but trust me all of this is true for all women.
> 
> 
> Remember when you met. Remember how she was-how sweet, how nice? Did she change? Take a look in the mirror. We treat you in the beginning how we want to be treated, then we treat you how you treat us. Don't like it? Change how you treat us.
> ...


You mean all men, who think that's a bit too long to read, love your wife, treat her kindly, take no rudeness, and all will be well.

See? Same thing. Much simpler. 
At the risk of mansplaining. (Joke!).


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hmmmm


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> hmmmm


Lol!!! What does this mean? You have me SO curious!!


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It just means I edited my text since the OP is banned apparently.
And it was a poo stirring post I had written to a poo stirrer, so I thought better of it.😮‍💨


----------



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

HairyMama said:


> Girl - you got that right. Planning to divorce in a. few years, just waiting for my kids to grow up and go off to college first.


You know.....when it's more "convenient" for you. I certainly hope you take the time to groom a replacement before you pull the plug! Monkey branching is all the trend right now. You never need to be 'single to mingle'.....


----------



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

What I gathered in all of this is the OP married the Brad/Chad, and now blaming all men. My money is on, "you will do it again". It is really sad how many attractive women have this "I deserve more" attitude. A co-dependent reliance on a partner for your happiness, that was selected with the only two traits women look for in the younger years. Hotness and money. That is IT, and it has been proven time and time again that money trumps looks every time.

All this is why I get the "how are you single" all the time, yet I will stay single. The list of 'demands' is endless. It is never enough! It's like getting a puppy that cannot survive without constant coddling. To be straight, I have NEVER been into gaming, and I know no one that is, but you can't tell me you didn't see any flags when you started down that road of "I do......forever(not)"

And just for a short story, I was out with friends the other day and a good friend was trying to 'hook me up' with a woman about 15yrs younger. Certainly attractive but my instinct was on point. Because I did not pay enough attention to her, she called another dude to come on over to give her attention. I am so good at spotting flags, I should be an NFL ref.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DTO said:


> I think you're misunderstanding what we're trying to say. So I'll give it a shot.
> 
> One, this should be more of a cycle where both meet each other's needs. There is a misconception the guy getting his needs met is the end result of a process that starts with the woman getting hers. This is a crap attitude.
> 
> ...


I call BS, there are many men don't want a keeper of the relationship as long as they are getting sexual needs met, decent meals and clean clothes, then all is well with the world. As many keep saying, men have simple needs, the reality is women are not so simple. As my H pointed out to me just the other day I must tell him what I need, even something as simple as a bottle of wine from the grocery store, which I mention many times over, but then he goes into the store (after I drive him there) and forgets and then says 'you should have reminded me.' I guess now it will be time to forget the laundry, iron the shirt, whatever. it goes both ways and tbh many men are just plain lazy and selfish when it comes to making the effort to meet their wife's needs. 
Incidentally, I do not need my H to fix anything, if there is an issue with my car, I simply take it to my other man, my mechanic. If there is a leak, I ask my plumber, etc. Now I will be accused (and have been by my H) that I don't need him.


----------



## always_working (8 mo ago)

You are generalizing your experience to all men, and speaking for all women in order to find validation.

Both of these tactics are invalid and unhealthy ways to seek validation. In fact, they cause damage to people around you.

Many (likely most) men have a "word is my bond" mentality. A man who is not honorable will not. He may also be a man who more easily projects an aura of "cool", "fun", "sexy" or "problem free". That is because he is breaking promises, and breaking promises is easy.

Were you able to filter for responsible men when you were dating? Or did you gravitate towards some other type?

You are also deflecting responsibility.

Although you may have justifiable complaints about your situation, it is useful to consider why we might want to avoid responsibility or seek validation.

We obviously seek validation because it feels good. But the _reason_ it feels good is because it means we _Don't Have to Change_ ourselves OR our tactics and strategies.

Responsibility is something we generally try to avoid because it feels bad. But the _reason_ it feels bad is because we also have to change to make things better.

This raises a deeper question: why does it feel bad to have to change?

My answer is rooted in the same emotion as laziness. Let's consider responsibility at the microscopic level: fractions of a second and small changes of tactics involved in a sport.

In a boxing match, it actually feels bad to have to change plans and dodge an unforeseen punch. That is because these rapid responsive corrections (response-able changes) cost enormous cognitive and physical energy relative to trying to roll with the punch.

When you get tired, it is actually easier to try and absorb the punch.

Extending this back into the macro scale where we live our lives (minutes, hours and days), it is not morals or emotional pain tolerance that break us out into "those who take responsibility" and "those who abandon it in favor of mischief or displacement", but rather laziness and industry.

Industrious people tend to find response-ability a more effective strategy than rolling with the punches, and lazy people adopt a different approach.

There is no right or wrong strategy, it is just important to recognize when one is allowing the drive to be lazy to dictate our expectations in Love.

I think it is an American cultural thing, but we are taught from an early age that love should feel "effortless" and "blind". We are also taught that we should abandon notions of industry, introspection, hard work and responsibility in our love lives... We are taught this even when it may not be consistent with how we normally solve problems. 



> "effortless" and "blind": note that only our love for _our biological offspring_ is effortless and blind. These are not our spouses, and our love for our spouse is actually completely different.


If we are the types who, in a boxing match, would not get lax and would instead protect ourselves, then why are we sticking our chins out and closing our eyes in the game of love?

In other words, you might want to consider figuring out how these claims you've made _don't_ apply to "all" men... and why you are having trouble meeting or seeing men who are different.

It may be due to some rules you've established on the kinds of men you are willing to date or even consider. The rules may be fairly rooted in your world view. And, as such, it may be very difficult for you to move yourself out of the way of these love life punches you keep taking.

In a sense (and much like "tech debt"), you may have accumulated responsibility debt.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

aine said:


> Some good points here but I don’t get why it seems to be always the responsibility of the wife/gf to be the keeper of the relationship? You say women have the power to build up the marriage or tear it down, to me this sounds like another version of , if you accept him as he is, put up and shut up, all will be well. This thinking is perpetrated over and over again in homes, by churches, etc. and is basically a firm of emotional abuse. why can’t a man listen to his wife’s concerns and be mature enough to listen? It all smacks of immaturity and selfishness, prioritising themselves. I’m not saying females are not selfish but some men are simply not selfless enough to be married and think they can continue to put themselves first in a relationship, as long as they get food and sex, all is well. This is a very superficial assessment on the whole.
> let me ask yiu, how well would you treat a colleague if they treated you like ****, disrespected you every day , would yiu be kind and patient. This is pure misogyny.


BS it applies both ways. No matter the gender.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

aine said:


> I call BS, there are many men don't want a keeper of the relationship as long as they are getting sexual needs met, decent meals and clean clothes, then all is well with the world. As many keep saying, men have simple needs, the reality is women are not so simple. As my H pointed out to me just the other day I must tell him what I need, even something as simple as a bottle of wine from the grocery store, which I mention many times over, but then he goes into the store (after I drive him there) and forgets and then says 'you should have reminded me.' I guess now it will be time to forget the laundry, iron the shirt, whatever. it goes both ways and tbh many men are just plain lazy and selfish when it comes to making the effort to meet their wife's needs.


You can interchange genders in any of these scenarios.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

so_sweet said:


> Hey, just curious, what's a "lower grade woman"?


Sounds like one that is less "High Maintenance"


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

so_sweet said:


> And if I had any stickers, I would give you one!
> 
> (Just in case it isn't obvious, I'm totally just joking!  )


My wife will not let me touch her washing machine. She tells me to quit doing her job. She said she is more excited about it than when she got her last car. She washes everything constantly. Will not let me use a towel more than 2x.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

red oak said:


> Haven’t you ever heard story of the woman missing her husband’s the dirty socks though.
> 😁


I have.
It is very sad for her, as hubby is dead and now she is sad for all the griping she did and wishes she still had him there and would gladly pick up his socks.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OP was banned so this thread is now closed down.


----------

