# NJ2 - unusual turn of events



## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

short back story
-marriage was becoming distant
- I looked for reasons why
- noted that there was some texting calling a coworker and concluded that there could be an EA/PA taking place
-I searched for clues and confronted H
-H lied to avoid confrontation as he is a poster boy for "no more mr nice guy"
-those lies fueled my suspicions and I concluded that if my brain could think it -then it was true

-apparently I have an OCD brain- the stress of my parents both dying brought this to the forefront and I took this need to be certain something was going on to the nth degree
- we all talk about going into detective mode and justifiably so....but I became obsessed with finding the "bad news" or conversely NOT finding it. The trouble with that is that if there is no bad news to find (an A) you never end in your search.

I did find out the bad news that H lies to avoid my anger , disappointment, confrontation etc (something IC says he learned to do as a child where he was given the message he wasnt good enough as he was ) 

So now what?....Unfortunately my brain still cant let go of the thought there is something going on....I spend hours obsessing over how I can finally find the evidence so that I can finally stop the search. It is a bit of a brain **** to say the least. Intellectually I get what the Dr is saying but emotionally I am still where I was- mostly. A circular argument in my head- why were there red flags if nothing was going on, why did i have that gut feeling if nothing was going on, how could my brain that i have relied on for my whole life to make and keep me successful have suddenly let me down so horrifically? 

How can I be so reasonable and successful in every other area of my life? How could no-one else pick up on the craziness?


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

If you did find evidence of an affair and stop your searching and wondering, are you going to leave the marriage or stay with him?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So your husband was secretly chatting with a coworker and when you confronted him he lied about it? So you snooped and found evidence of it? And someone (your dr. it sounds like) is telling you this is all in your head?????

Sounds to me like you need a new dr., not a new brain.

Why was your husband talking in secret to this coworker? What evidence DID you find? Where else have you looked and NOT found anything? How long have you been searching for this evidence?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You found texts and noted that there COULD have been an EA/PA. Did the content of the messages imply or state this, or were they innocent, and you are still unconvinced? Did he lie about texting, or did he say (truthfully or not, which is not presently known) that were was no affair?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

NJ2 - you are not crazy and it is not in your head. The texting to the coworker, how many texts were there? Did you read any?
What exactly does your snooping entail?

Your gut is often the best instrument you have, do not discount it.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> short back story
> -marriage was becoming distant
> - I looked for reasons why
> - noted that there was some texting calling a coworker and concluded that there could be an EA/PA taking place
> ...


 Your thought process, especially the OCD part, is the exact same as mine in this instance. My wife generally doesn't flat out lie ,but uses lies of omission to avoid confrontation, and I too have been on the eternal quest for that damning piece of evidence. It is getting better after a lot of not finding anything, but occasionally a trigger (sometimes stories here) will spin me right back down again. My theory is your gut was picking up on what was in the works, or was going to happen, so I would not discount it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Like a lot of people, you confronted with suspicions and almost no evidence.

Let it drop for now. No more comments, complaints, or questions. Let him think you are OK with what he is doing, but continue to monitor and gather evidence. I could take a couple of month for him to calm down. But if it is an EA or PA you should eventually find something.

I will also warn that, like another poster whose wife was in a year long PA, there may not be any electronic evidence to find. With coworkers all communication can be face to face and all electronic stuff is just window dressing.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> short back story
> -marriage was becoming distant
> - I looked for reasons why
> - noted that there was some texting calling a coworker and concluded that there could be an EA/PA taking place
> ...


Meds? Exposure and Response Prevention? PTSD? I had some irrational OCD after I went through serious trauma, I had to be put on meds for a few years, it was the only thing that stopped the irrational thoughts. I was still functioning and no none ever knew except those I talked to about it. It took about a month but the meds did stop the circular thinking. It is the worst though I know.

Now if it really is him just being sneaky then maybe with the way your function living with someone like that you have to rethink connecting your life to him. I don't think I could live for a long time with someone who was generally dishonest. I would eventually be like, nah this ain't for me.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

-thanks to all for your comments- there is more to the story-i had an A 25 years ago for about 6mos which i voluntarily disclosed 2 1/2 years ago after some 2x4's from TAM members (so could be projection) My guilt from the evilness of my own actions cant be discounted. As someone pointed out on TAM maybe I was trying to make myself feel less guilt by thinking he was guilty too.

to answer - i have been looking for 2 1/2 years and found (besides the lies) -mildly flirty texts in the beginning and work related or innocent texts after that-some mildly flirting behaviour at a social function we were at...

I VAR'd for several weeks and found nothing, I GPS'd for about 4 months and found he spent longer at the office than told me. He had excuses for the inaccuracies- forgot about this time or that time, meetings, he'd left his phone there...He is a notoriously inaccurate time keeper (ADD). He also misrepresented this because he knew it causes me anxiety.

- he deleted texts and sometimes admitted it 
- some I saw before they were deleted. there were almost 0 texts for a year- then 130 over 2 weeks - nothing damning
- I heard him call her cell from a different phone when he didn't hang up after ending our call- he eventually admitted he did that so i wouldnt see it on his call log to prevent an arguement. The call was innocent- a message warning her someone was looking for her as she'd left work early and he didn't want her to get in trouble.

- MC says OW and H have poor boundaries but doubts that it was anything more than him enjoying the attention of a younger woman. MC thinks I am his everything. I am his world. She points out that he was more than willing to do MC/IC, a weekend marital workshop and 12 weeks of a church based marriage improvement course to help him be a more honest H

- I have told a few close friends.They don't think there is/was anything going on. They say they can tell how much he loves me by the way he looks at me when we are together and if they had been in his shoes -and they were not having an A but continuously being accused of one- they would have lied as well to avoid the whole hellish rollercoaster of me and my emotions.

-There has been evidence of OCD brain thinking previously in my life. I put it down to that little bit of crazy we all have lurking under the surface. I have some secondary indications of it - some compulsive behaviours unrelated to thinking hes cheating. All of this started when my mother began dying a long slow horrible death-it took 2 years for her to pass and i was one of the primary caretakers. I found when I was overwhelmed with grief and anxiety about her suffering(and my own) I would find refuge in looking for evidence of his A. It gave me something else to do. It focused my attention somewhere else as it was all consuming. This was relaxing in a strange sort of way. In the beginning it was often accompanied with a feeling of detachment. Later as things progressed it caused more anxiety than it relieved and became uncontrollable. 

I knew there was a problem when i was crying while checking because I didnt want to do it anymore. So much time has been wasted. It doesnt serve me in the same way anymore.....and yet I keep doing it. I imagine it feels like an addict might feel. You dont want to do it but at the same time its all you want to do. The urge overwhelms you and you feel shame for being so weak and wasting your life this way.

Would I stay if I found out he did have a A? I feel I am no better -if not worse- because of what I did. I owe him the same forgiveness he has given me. On the other hand -if it was continuing all this time while I was getting progressively crazier and if he has allowed me to think I have a mental disorder rather than give up the A .... or disclose....I guess I'd blame him for turning normal suspicious behaviour into pathology....
@sokillme Thank you for your honesty. I am comforted to know that the meds helped. I filled the prescription but I hesitate to take them because of the sexual side effects. Through all of this crap our sex life has remained good and it helps us to stay bonded. Did you experience any side effects from your medication? How long did you have to take it and how did you know when it was safe to stop? Immediately after my mom died -1 week- my dad was hospitalized and began an equally long slow death...These events although not PTSD worthy caused chronic stress which could have tipped me over into crazytown.
@Rubix Cubed- I think I remember reading your thread. Is it possible that you were a victim of OCD thinking? You never found anything despite the looking. Her lies of omission would have been enough to start the connection between 2 unrelated events. She lied through omission, why did she do that, there must be a reason, maybe she is having an affair, if i think/feel it -it must be true, now i have to find the evidence to support my belief, I have to keep looking because if i do I'll find that piece of damning evidence and I can finally stop looking, if I stop before I've finished looking I will miss that one piece I have yet to find....and wouldnt I be a fool then..."if" something was going on.....

I am happy to hear that your anxiety is easing up after not finding anything for so long. My eased up when I quit looking for a week. I felt healthy and almost normal but then just wanted to do one little bit of checking to make sure - after I had gone on TAM and it started right back up again. TAM is definately a trigger for me. I can always find a story that has evidence similar to mine -that ends up being an A. My mind then uses that evidence as proof that he is having an A. For example- someone posts their husband is texting a coworker alot....then they catch them in bed- AHA! My H was texting alot too! Hes having an A. Only problem is I dont catch him in bed...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> @sokillme Thank you for your honesty. I am comforted to know that the meds helped. I filled the prescription but I hesitate to take them because of the sexual side effects. Through all of this crap our sex life has remained good and it helps us to stay bonded. Did you experience any side effects from your medication? How long did you have to take it and how did you know when it was safe to stop? Immediately after my mom died -1 week- my dad was hospitalized and began an equally long slow death...These events although not PTSD worthy caused chronic stress which could have tipped me over into crazytown.


This is something be to cautious about it's true. So you should stay on top of that, but there are many meds so you just need to work with your doctor to find the right one. Believe me they were a life send at the time. You may not need to be on them forever. There are also ones that are not long term and you just take when needed.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Meds? Exposure and Response Prevention? PTSD? I had some irrational OCD after I went through serious trauma, I had to be put on meds for a few years, it was the only thing that stopped the irrational thoughts. I was still functioning and no none ever knew except those I talked to about it. It took about a month but the meds did stop the circular thinking. It is the worst though I know.
> 
> Now if it really is him just being sneaky then maybe with the way your function living with someone like that you have to rethink connecting your life to him. I don't think I could live for a long time with someone who was generally dishonest. I would eventually be like, nah this ain't for me.


I often wonder if I have OCD myself but never used to have an issue until the last 7 years, when you gut works overtime, well........


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

NJ2 why not just hire a PI ??

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The choices from your previous threads were leave or accept. That's still true. IIRC your MC wants you to forget about what may have happened -- let it go -- and focus on rebuilding the marriage. That's probably good advice. He's not going to tell you anything more about what he may have done either with the OW or those women he kissed while out of town years ago. He's had that opportunity many times and according to him there's nothing more to tell. And he knows you have no way to prove anything more happened than what you already know and you won't leave him. Even if there's more to tell, he figures it doesn't benefit him to confess and so he'll take whatever happened that you don't know about with him to the grave. 

He may be willing to do all those things the MC pointed out but he refused to take a second poly after he failed the first one. Was that because he didn't want to clarify about the women he kissed? Had it been as simple as just not remembering what happened then, since he was drinking and it was long ago, he likely wouldn't have asked to speak to the examiner in private. IIRC he wasn't deceptive about the OW when he took the first poly?

The truth is that his actions have been suspicious. That's why you've been unable to let it go.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i would suggest a meeting with a psychiatrist. They might be able to prescribe a mild anti anxiety drug that would let you let go of this pursuit. 

It sounds like you do not believe he is actually cheating. and it sounds like you want to stop all the sherlock holmes stuff, but are unable to stop doing it. That is a good recipe for some professional help being needed.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I suggest you read the book "The Mood Cure" immediately. There are numerous safe natural supplements which may help your anxiety that are not Rx medications. These supplements are inexpensive and in clinical trials do as well as Rx medications. Add to the list Magnesium supplements, which I don't recall if they are mentioned in the book or not. Essentially, it boils down to your brain chemicals are out of whack which leads to anxiety (or depression, or sugar cravings, etc etc). Give your body the right building blocks and it will manufacture those chemicals.

In addition, don't cringe at this suggestion, try a gluten free diet for 6 weeks. It seems difficult at first but there are now a lot of options out there. Also, try to eat as organic as possible. Glyphosate (roundup weed killer) is a disruptor of the manufacture of those brain chemicals, and wheat is filled with it (in the USA). Organic food won't have Roundup in it and will have much less of all the other chemicals. Gluten, if you have an actual sensitivity to it, can cause all kinds of problems including anxiety or similar. Cut out all the breads, pasta, crackers, anything with MSG (a gluten derivative found in many processed foods including Ranch dressing), fast food (even the french fries are contaminated), and any pre-prepared foods not labelled as Gluten Free.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I would give your MC's comments some weight, but not 100%. Her comments about your husband being dedicated etc are probably something she has thought about before saying it, so I think she truly believes it, which is a good sign. Therapists have seen it all, so if she saw something suspicious in your husband I don't think she would say to you he is a dedicated husband. While your H could be snowing her, I think the chances are slim of it.

Nice Guys do stupid things. Your husband is not off the hook for crossing some boundaries. He needs to do his own work to get his act together. There's a forum for Nice Guys on Dr. Glover's site (he wrote the book No More Mr. Nice Guy). Some individual counseling is probably in order for him. Also, there may be a No More Mr. Nice Guy support group in your area which would give him real life in person guidance. Check out Meetup.com to see if such a group is nearby.

There is the possibility of a polygraph for you to get a definitive answer if he cheated. While this is somewhat risky of getting an incorrect result, a good polygrapher can be very accurate. If there is no other way to shake your worries, I would consider the poly as a last resort.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Have you two really processed your infidelity over the past few years since you confessed?


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I did ask to see a psychiatrist but my family dr said that they would provide the same answers. Meds and CBT. I am supposed to hear back from a group therapist in my city soon. I'm trying other natural ways of increasing seratonin in the meantime. Walking, yoga, b12, magnesium and sunshine.
@Openminded- I know, I know, I know. I have told him if he hadnt lied and behaved suspiciously maybe this wouldnt have happened. But it probably would have. Its so extreme. If you saw my notes and maps and files....it reminds me of tv shows where they finally get inside the house and they walk into a room-that pausing moment when they realize - hey this person is waaaaaay craaaaaazy.......the level and duration of the behaviour makes me think it could be a disorder. Of course then I think ...but why did he lie, what about this clue, that clue, this missing piece of the puzzle....and then I think of @drifting on - I know it took forever to find his missing pieces and I know he probably felt exactly what I'm feeling. MC says I have to give up the notion of wanting to know for sure- you are right im never going to know. Before I can do that I have to get unstuck. Life is passing me by.

The failed lie detector is a stumbling block. I believe he has not had intercourse with an OW, I believe he kissed those 4 girls a long time ago and probably not much more happened. He actually had very limited sexual experiences before me despite being sought after. I believe he was unsure of how long ago it happened so was probably not 25 years ago but more like 15. 

I can't actually say that I think he did or did not have an affair. I can say that I want to be 100% sure one way or the other and the only way to do that is to find the smoking gun, the bullet, and the naked bodies. 

I feel like I'd be foolish to stop looking- like how can I stop? What if its true? What if its going on right underneath my nose? What if I miss that bullet that would allow me to stop....Apparently those feelings are all part of the OCD. It all seems reasonable to me except I know its not. Its not reasonable because its ruining my life.

Another part of the OCD they say is endlessly wanting to tell your story and discuss it. You want to draw them in (including counselors) and convince them that you are right. Look at my evidence! It must be true! But maybe its not, maybe everything is fine...you want them to tell you you are right and at the same time assure you you are wrong.

It was recommended that 
I've ask H not to be drawn into the endless debates that go nowhere with me. He is supposed to say- im sorry your in so much pain right now but we have been over this many times and it doesnt resolve anything for you. Is there something I can do to make you feel better? can we go for a walk..or do something to help you move on from this thought?

He is also not to give me access to his phones anymore. I am not allowed to GPS him. My behaviour has been abusive even though I cant help -it the outcome is the same.

I still want to discuss this over and over ad nauseum with him or anyone else that knows. It makes me annoyed when he says what hes supposed to say. I got so upset about the phones when he went away for a few days that he gave his work one to me to keep. But then that just triggered endless hours on there looking for something. 

UGH!!!!!! I just realized I'm doing the same thing here. Endlessly talking about the same **** - round and round- this is probably just another way to indulge in my compulsions.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Check out 5-HTP. It is an amino acid, so it is totally natural. Your grocery store or local drug store will have it. Take 50mg mid afternoon and then again mid evening. You should feel improvement within a day or two. If not, double the dose but no more than that. The book "Mood Cure" has a lot more info and other supplements to try. The book has a lot of good info in it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The problem is that you're never going to know what he's really done in the distant, and not-so-distant, past. His lies and deception are real but it's not possible now to know how far he went He's either told you the truth about all of that or he hasn't and you have no way of knowing which it is. As to his current actions, I assume there's no longer anything suspicious about them. Sure he could be cheating -- that's always a possibility at any time in any relationship -- but while constant monitoring may work for some it doesn't work for you. It just makes you anxious and yet you're afraid to stop for fear that you might miss something. But for your own sanity, you've got to figure out a different path. It doesn't sound like much has changed since you stopped posting on TAM months ago and it needs to if you want to stay with him (and I'm certain you do).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you have the farm put in your name only or did you decide that you didn't need that after all?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NJ2

I have been wondering how you have been doing lately, In fact I was going to send you a pm tomorrow to ask of your current situation. I'm sorry you are not doing as well as I hoped you would be at this point. 

You are correct in that I did get most of the larger missing pieces to my situation. You need those pieces too, but I also want to ask you a question. If your husband admitted to an affair, either years ago or recently, would that be enough for you to stop being a detective? Now, here is something I went through but don't mention much, I kept digging, I kept thinking there was more. What you need to look at here is this, if you get the truth, does your OCD stop now? Most likely not, and that's because of the OCD combined with the betrayed spouse thoughts of did this or did that. I hate that you are having to go through this.

I'm in partial agreement with your therapist, but your husband lying caused this doubt and now the therapist has advised him on what to say. Have you asked your therapist how she would move forward without answers and numerous lies? If she can't give you good advice on moving forward, then maybe she should help your husband to be more honest. After all, that would solve many problems. Again, as I said to you in another post, I would just assume the worst, and figure out if you can accept that. From there I would then move forward and live your life instead of it passing you by. Please note that I hate that I have to suggest such advice to you. 

I hope you are staying strong, continuing to work on yourself. God bless you.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Kids and H went on vacation - I didnt go because I thought it would be good to stay home -see if I could manage this stuff- I spent a total of 12 hours yesterday "looking for bad news". I thought I had found something - a phonecall to me that had him calling from a city an hour away that he would have no business in. Took me half the day to find that then another half till I resolved it- It ended up being a night when he had gone out of town with my son to pick up a second hand appliance for his new house......

Today I am trying to at least postpone checking till later then give myself a limited time to engage in it. That will be possible I hope.
@drifting on - Hey Buddy!!! You are what keeps me going. I know there is the strength to be found somewhere inside me. I am looking forward to the time when I can feel confident that I am whole enough to know I can survive and will be fine no matter what is in the past or future. The peace that will bring!! 

You are right. I have given it some deep thought. Even if he admitted to an A and gave me details I would keep searching. I would never know if what he said was complete, I would never know what other pieces were still missing. Just as he often will ask me something about my A and then say he had no idea- that is new information and it hurts him all over. It can be something as little as did you ever eat at this restaurant or have a coffee at that coffee shop...I am going to try and sit with uncertainty. Hang out with fear. Get in touch with myself again because I am clearly lost.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@Thor Thank you for your time and informed suggestions. I will get that book and the supplement you recommended today. If I dont see improvement in a week I think I'll have to do the prescription though. This is just gotten so rediculous. It was a bad thing to leave myself alone to indulge in these thoughts and behaviours with no one around to distract or impede my efforts. I probably knew that when I said I'd stay home. 
@Openminded - I didnt get the farm changed over to solely my name. Partially because he has done a **** load of work on it and I need him to help manage it. I cut the field the other day and ran the tractor onto some rocks- broke the belt and bent the blades. He's on vacation and learning how to fix it at a nearby farm. Lol- kind of why I love him. He told me not to go so fast but I did anyways and now he'll spend hours uncomplainingly fixing it for me. 

Are there any more suspicious behaviours. Yes. My GF said that with the amount of detailed searching I do I'm bound to find something suspicious just as anyone would if they were looking so hard. I called him one day and he said he was at the office, just arrived and would be there a half hour more before he let his big boss now he was leaving for the day.( he had to meet someone at the farm to help fix the cistern...) when i looked at the phone log it showed he was not in the city he 
works in but our own city (20 minutes from his work) When I questioned him further he said he lied and that he was actually pulled over at the side of the road on his way to pick up the pump. He was sitting in his car for 20 minutes till he could text big boss to say he was leaving. He says he lied because he didnt want me to get mad that he left work early...I tell myself hes at the side of the road getting a BJ. It takes me a week to work through this. MC says I need to stop expecting his lies to make sense - his first recourse is to "misrepresent" his actions in a more favorable light if he feels I will disapprove. She thinks he will lie less when he sees that I am less volatile and accusatory. The weight of being under a microscope never knowing when a small action will cause a huge accusation is very stressful.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> i would suggest a meeting with a psychiatrist. They might be able to prescribe a mild anti anxiety drug that would let you let go of this pursuit.
> 
> It sounds like you do not believe he is actually cheating. and it sounds like you want to stop all the sherlock holmes stuff, but are unable to stop doing it. That is a good recipe for some professional help being needed.


Sometimes I wish someone would just put me in an inpatient facility and leave me there. I am tired of trying to deal with this. I was hoping for something like a mild anti anxiety drug-but they dont actually work so well for OCD. You need the ones that increase the seratonin to help get unstuck. 

I am never sure if I believe he is actually cheating or not. It feels both ways. My mind is always conflicted and searching for certainty- which never comes....and "probably" never will come... and if it did come..... it still wouldnt ever tell me enough so i'd keep looking. 

it is helpful to have a label on the crazy and an understanding of the brains misfiring. It is helpful to be aware that much of what I am doing is explainable and hopefully controllable. 

Heres the issue though- just because I have OCD doesnt mean he WASNT cheating.

And theres the circular thinking that goes round and round with no resolution.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP do not the mistake I made.
Do not Over-intellectualize. It will be used as a tool to manipulate you.
Understand you live with a manipulator and they will always.....
Divert, Lie, Seduce, Project blame, Feign innocence or confusion, Vilify you, Play the victim, or Shame you to win.
It's game to them and they will do absolutely anything to win.

Read "In Sheep's Clothing"
It has transformed my life.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> Heres the issue though- just because I have OCD doesnt mean he WASNT cheating.
> 
> And theres the circular thinking that goes round and round with no resolution.


have you considered some way to make YOU feel better about him cheating? this might be a bad idea, but i will say it anyway. How about bringing one of your girlfriends into the bedroom, and encouraging him to play with the both of you. but with you controlling the frequency, who it is, the timing, etc. That way you would not be worried about him cheating, since you have given him permission, AND you will be at the scene of the crime, and know everything that is going on, so there will be no phantom demons in your mind to battle with about it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NJ2 said:


> Kids and H went on vacation - I didnt go because I thought it would be good to stay home -see if I could manage this stuff- I spent a total of 12 hours yesterday "looking for bad news". I thought I had found something - a phonecall to me that had him calling from a city an hour away that he would have no business in. Took me half the day to find that then another half till I resolved it- It ended up being a night when he had gone out of town with my son to pick up a second hand appliance for his new house......
> 
> Today I am trying to at least postpone checking till later then give myself a limited time to engage in it. That will be possible I hope.
> 
> ...




NJ2 

I think it's good you didn't go on vacation, however I'm sad that you spent half a day trying to find something bad, but I understand that feeling and the actions involved. I searched and searched, I only found one email, wasn't even one complete sentence. NJ, if you know in your mind that his confession would still not be enough, then you will have to do what I did, stop searching. Yes my wife confessed, but after that I didn't search much at all for anything new, I monitored her phone and emails. I didn't even check every day, my mindset was that if she wanted to leave then so be it. 

As I moved through the first six months I worked more on me then the marriage. I needed to heal, I had to find myself, my beliefs, my values, everything that was me. I struggled but worked hard, I wanted to give up then found new strength, I became better slowly. As I healed I had to remind myself this is for me, my best interest, and not about the marriage or even my wife. At the six month mark I knew I would be ok whether married or divorced. Once that happened, strength seemed to come in waves, I'd be good then settled, then good again. I began to work on the marriage while continuing to work on myself. It was never easy, each step took its toll in one way or another, and soon I didn't want to search for anything more. Do I have the full story of my wife's affair, I doubt it, but I do know I have as much as I could probably get. There will always be little nagging holes in each story told, the missing pieces of the puzzle titled infidelity. 

You need to just stop searching, focus on the moment, and know with what you have found he cheated. He admitted to being physical with strippers, so he probably did with the coworker too. Is this something you can accept? Can you move forward and be truly happy with yourself, marriage, and partner? Work on yourself, wait until your husband can see you will be fine married or not, this is a huge wake up call to them. My wife was scared when I became ok, and with very good reason, she felt I would want a wife who didn't cheat, who didn't hurt me as she did, that I wouldn't love her, care for her, want to grow old with her, and so on. I'm not that shallow, I'm not that person, and while not jumping up and down with joy I've accepted the affair. I've become happy, I'm loving being with the boys, and I'm loving being with my wife as well. This is for two reasons, I'm a better and much more healed then before, I've also accepted what I've found and not found. Instead of seeing a puzzle with pieces missing and wonder what was there, I threw the puzzle away, but I'll never forget that puzzle either. 

NJ you have the strength, let go of your fear, be vulnerable and warm and demand that your husband be the same. This is your new marriage now, mourned the old and bury it, cherish your good memories, but let the marriage die. Build new, work on yourself, find who you are and then begin to live. At times in life we can't have the full story, but I think you know enough to make a decision on what you want for your future. God bless you!


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> have you considered some way to make YOU feel better about him cheating? this might be a bad idea, but i will say it anyway. How about bringing one of your girlfriends into the bedroom, and encouraging him to play with the both of you. but with you controlling the frequency, who it is, the timing, etc. That way you would not be worried about him cheating, since you have given him permission, AND you will be at the scene of the crime, and know everything that is going on, so there will be no phantom demons in your mind to battle with about it.


OHHHHHH @Talker67 !! I know you were meaning to be helpful and who knows for some people that might work but for me it would put fire to any normalcy left within my grey matter. But I laughed literally out loud when I read your post. God bless you!


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> OP do not the mistake I made.
> Do not Over-intellectualize. It will be used as a tool to manipulate you.
> Understand you live with a manipulator and they will always.....
> Divert, Lie, Seduce, Project blame, Feign innocence or confusion, Vilify you, Play the victim, or Shame you to win.
> ...



This idea is what keeps me from going forward. What if he is just a snake in the grass? What if he is a despicable wolf in sheeps clothing? What if he has got an OW on the side and this is all a game to him to make me feel crazy? 

I actually know of a friend who worked with an older married man on his ranch- he had several kids. she said the wife thought there was something going on between them buyt they assured her it was all in her head...this young woman went on vacations with them to help look after the kids, worked along side him while his wife looked after the children ...all the while both professing she was delusional...eventually she ended up having a breakdown and was hospitalized...aaaaaaaand we all know what came next.... young woman got pregnant by him and he got divorced had a few babies with her and then married her. Yea- the wife wasnt crazy at all....


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> OP do not the mistake I made.
> Do not Over-intellectualize. It will be used as a tool to manipulate you.
> Understand you live with a manipulator and they will always.....
> Divert, Lie, Seduce, Project blame, Feign innocence or confusion, Vilify you, Play the victim, or Shame you to win.
> ...


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

If he did cheat ... Since you cheated first, you don't have a whole lot to say about it. You just have to suck it up, as he had to with you.

Really he should have dumped you when he found out about the cheating.


Only difference was that he did nothing to deserve being cheated on whereas you did.

I must say I am astonished at the sympathy you are getting from some TAM members. You are not getting any from me.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Moderator warning:

Please make your points without name calling


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

drifting on said:


> NJ2
> 
> I think it's good you didn't go on vacation, however I'm sad that you spent half a day trying to find something bad, but I understand that feeling and the actions involved. I searched and searched, I only found one email, wasn't even one complete sentence. NJ, if you know in your mind that his confession would still not be enough, then you will have to do what I did, stop searching. Yes my wife confessed, but after that I didn't search much at all for anything new, I monitored her phone and emails. I didn't even check every day, my mindset was that if she wanted to leave then so be it.
> 
> ...


Nooooooooo DO- I spent ALLLL day- 12 hours - 12 ****ing hours!!!!!! WASTED!!!!! 4 hours looking for something and 8 hours trying to resolve the issue- basically my mind says he was in an unusual city he never goes to 10 months ago- what was he doing there? maybe he went out of town to be with OW, maybe they rented a hotel and ****ed their brains out....if i think it- it must be true..so now i have to prove it is true- but i desperately dont want it to be true...but I know I'm right -there have been so many red flags, so many lies.... right ....It must have happened....there must be another piece of evidence that will prove it...God help me ..I hope I cant find it ......

Eventually I remembered he had gone out of town around then to help DS buy a washing machine...there were several calls to other numbers on that day- one was the number for a hotel by the lake...welll shazammmm! More evidence...but then I see another number off by one - it ends up being a laundromat...... then I remember.....Its ****ing awful. I am so ashamed of myself for behaving this way. It seems weak and frankly- just crazy stupid. I am so much more than this. I have lost myself so deeply in this cesspool. Sometimes I am so angry with him.

I cant stop the thoughts, the searching, the obsessing. I hardly ever think about any other topic. No one can really tell. I can carry on a conversation and golf and swim and have dinner with friends...but its there under the surface like a shark swimming and nipping at my toes the whole time. I'm still here, I'm still here.. dont think things are ok cuz they are not- your husbands ****ing someone else and you just havent worked hard enough to prove it... 

Lol they werent strippers- they were just women who were ok with going after a handsome drunk married guy with a wedding ring on,...maybe they were strippers? I guess they could have been...

I think about how long it took you to find that one little slip up...but you found it. I think about how you felt because I feel the same. You kept looking. You didnt give up till you found it. You trusted your intuition and your mind to lead you down the right path. I think about how your wife was willing to take it to her grave while you were suffering...I think about how I would have probably done the same if H had confronted me 25 year ago. Hes not as smart as I am. He'll make a mistake- even that half a sentence can be enough.. - one little bit of indisputable evidence then I'd be able to stop. I'd be able to begin healing. Intellectually I know that this has gotten waaaaaay to craycray to stop there but its the driving force. I just want some peace.

I'm not worried about him leaving. He would never leave me. I am confident in that. I am worried he will STAY with me and have someone on the side. I'm worried he's a selfish cake-eater(like I was). Thats what my dad did my parents whole marriage. He had OW1 for decades, and when he finally got rid of her - after MC and renewing their marital vows and buying each other new wedding bands . . hes laying on the hospital gurney at 88 years old -and a pretty old lady comes up and rubs her hand up and down his bare legs under his hospital nightgown while talking to him. He'd been meeting her once a week for 10 years without my moms knowledge. I dont want that. MC says H is not my dad. But dont daughters marry their dads? 

I know I need to do what you did after d-day. Work on me - get healthy and whole. But- I havent yet gotten to that D-day. I know, but I dont Know. Its a mind ****. You know it is. I am stuck in those hellish 2 years you spent looking. I am not capable of doing what you say I need to do yet. I will try to get to that place but I feel like I'm so far from it now.

I just wish ....well wishing doesnt get us anywhere does it? 
Actions do- yoga, IC, MC, vitamins, a support group, walking, sunshine, that book and supplemet that @Thor recommended, golf, friends, meditation, prescriptions....cripes something should get this brain back in order. 

I agree with you. It would scare the crap out of H to see me whole and healthy. He would be afraid I wouldnt stay. MC says he has self esteem issues you just cant see them. His lies betray his confident exterior. I envy his apparent stability, kindness and strength, his work ethic, and energy-but MC says he needs me for that. I'm the one that keeps it all floating for him. Without me his world would fall apart. 

Maybe.
Thanks for listening.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

NJ12
FWIW, have you thought of transcendental meditation? It is a great way to learn to calm an overactive mind, or noisy mind. Ma'am, frankly, you are driving yourself insane by checking, checking and checking. Look what it did for you, you missed out on a family vacation, instead you do nothing but harm yourself, if not your marriage. Leave this alone. Take up TM, knitting, landscape painting, cartooning, marijuana farming, anything. This is OCD behavior. Wonderful if you work for the FBI, not so good in a marriage. Please girl, stop. Just. Stop.


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

I'm not surprised your H has self esteem issues. All your posts are about you. Even how great you are in other areas of your life and implying you are such a catch you would traumatise your H with men hitting on you - which is true, a certain type of man, looking for an easy lay. The male equivalent of the rich old billionaire marrying the lingerie model. Both the men you attract and her are after one thing.

None are about him and the trauma he is still suffering.

It seems to me the real reason you are obsessing over this and hoping to catch him is to make you feel better about your cheating - the "everyone does it so it's ok for me" fallacy. 

I think you need to let go of your ego and admit you did something really really bad, even after you saw the damage your own father did with cheating. Only then will you be able to heal.

I personally don't think your H is cheating ... as you need a big ego and sense of entitlement for that especially as a man. If he was revenge cheating he would rub it in your face, otherwise why bother? But I think that actually makes it worse for you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Good Guy said:


> I'm not surprised your H has self esteem issues. All your posts are about you. Even how great you are in other areas of your life and implying you are such a catch you would traumatise your H with men hitting on you - which is true, a certain type of man, looking for an easy lay. The male equivalent of the rich old billionaire marrying the lingerie model. Both the men you attract and her are after one thing.
> 
> None are about him and the trauma he is still suffering.
> 
> ...


There is another reason that NJ12 might be fearful thst her husband might cheat. She was a good, normal person. Yet she cheated.

Her husband is a good, normal person, so might he cheat, too?

And most cheaters fear that their cheated on spouse might have a revenge affair.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> OHHHHHH @Talker67 !! I know you were meaning to be helpful and who knows for some people that might work but for me it would put fire to any normalcy left within my grey matter. But I laughed literally out loud when I read your post. God bless you!


I understand, that is not for everyone.

How about something very simple: 30 minutes of aerobic exercise every morning, every day. Recent Harvard studies show that aerobic exercise each day chases the demons out of the brain, without the need for drugs.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Taxman said:


> NJ12
> FWIW, have you thought of transcendental meditation?


I have a good friend who has done this all his life, and swears by it. Worth a try!


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> And most cheaters fear that their cheated on spouse might have a revenge affair.


The most truthful statement ever made. NJ2, that is at the root of your problem, you expect the revenge affair,you might even be relieved to discover it, but when it fails to materialize, you drive yourself increasingly more insane. You could provide a self fulfilling prophesy: You will drive yourself further and further into mental illness until your husband is forced to institutionalize you. Then he will have an affair.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

NJ2. I just wanted to continue my thought, and you would benefit from this. I, like you, cheated on my spouse. It was the epitome of stupid. She did all of the expected things, she evicted me from our home, and cut off contact. 

I, like you, begged forgiveness and a second chance. Here is where our stories diverge; My wife had conditions for a reconciliation. I went into therapy, we started seeing a marriage counselor. She also demanded a date with someone other than myself. I begged and pleaded, to no end. Within a week, I was told that she had. It was cold, dispassionate, and deliberate. She wanted me to feel exactly how I made her feel. That was the extent of her revenge. We did some pretty crappy stuff to one another, and then we grew up, and spent the next six months reconciling. 

NJ, if your husband was going to have a revenge affair, hall pass, ons, what have you, he would have done it by now. All you are doing is projecting your bad behavior onto him. He may yet surprise you, but speaking as someone who had it done to him, the time has gone way too long for that to be effective. Actually, you are doing the revenge for him, and really well for that matter. You are slowly driving yourself batty, because you expect him to do to you what you did to him. If it is going to happen, you will be blindsided by it, BUT FWIW, if it hasn't happened by now, it may not.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank you for the comments. It is helpful to get different perspectives since i cant trust my own judgement anymore.
@Good Guy I am sorry that I triggered some negative emotions from you. Beneath the anger is usually sadness or hurt. I sincerely hope you can find your own peace.

I would never begin to think that what I did was any less than an evil horrible gut wrenching stab to his heart. Yes I knew what my dad did to my mother. My mother also did it to my dad. After she died I found pictures of her modeling for her AP along with a condom hidden in her drawer.(she was 90) She spent the last decade of her life having an EA with a cuban masseuse sending him tens of thousands of dollars. This is the house I grew up in. I had an A 25 years ago when I was young, immature, selfish and stupid - perhaps my morals were not fully formed and tainted by my upbringing. At the time I was miserable in the marriage -begged H to talk to me , spend time with me, look me in the eye when i was speaking at least stay in the same room. No excuse for what I did but he certainly owned 50% of the state of the marriage. 

If you have read the book "Not just friends" it describes exactly how it happens. At least in my case. As @MattMatt says I am not an awful person- I am a good person that did a terrible thing.

I agree my posts sound self centered-but I am trapped inside my head. I can't look past this hell for more than a few minutes at a time. Part of the OCD is an attempt to get people to believe your thoughts. Its like a very expensive campaign to win people over to your side while also hoping to god they elect someone else.

H is no angel. He cheated on me when we were engaged and has admitted to at least kissing 4 women while we were married. All of these things happened decades ago. I'm not happy about it but our 37 year marriage is not worth throwing away over it. It is the concern that something is going on NOW that i cant let go of. 

It can be a challenge to read and respond to posts from an objective point of view. We all carry around our story. I try my best to be as honest as I can. I think from time to time that honesty may help someone else to understand their situation a little better. Especially if they are looking to R.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@ Taxman - I am sorry for what pain both you and your wife inflicted on each other. I have to say though she is a wise lady. She knew the only way you could understand what you did to her was to feel that death to your soul. I dont advocate it but speaking from experience - I had no idea the enormity of what I had done till I thought it was being done to me.

My concern is not that he would do a one off to get back at me but that he has been having an A for the last 2 years while pretending to work on the marriage. That he has set me up to go crazy by presenting me with things that dont make sense and telling me they do. His lies I could over look as his own issue if they are about things that dont matter. If theyare about being with another woman ...well thats different. We , like you and your wife are supposed to be helping each other grow. together

I believe you are right. If he isnt cheating I will drive him to cheat. I have already driven myself batty...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> Nooooooooo DO- I spent ALLLL day- 12 hours - 12 ****ing hours!!!!!! WASTED!!!!! 4 hours looking for something and 8 hours trying to resolve the issue- basically my mind says he was in an unusual city he never goes to 10 months ago- what was he doing there? maybe he went out of town to be with OW, maybe they rented a hotel and ****ed their brains out....if i think it- it must be true..so now i have to prove it is true- but i desperately dont want it to be true...but I know I'm right -there have been so many red flags, so many lies.... right ....It must have happened....there must be another piece of evidence that will prove it...God help me ..I hope I cant find it ......
> 
> Eventually I remembered he had gone out of town around then to help DS buy a washing machine...there were several calls to other numbers on that day- one was the number for a hotel by the lake...welll shazammmm! More evidence...but then I see another number off by one - it ends up being a laundromat...... then I remember.....Its ****ing awful. I am so ashamed of myself for behaving this way. It seems weak and frankly- just crazy stupid. I am so much more than this. I have lost myself so deeply in this cesspool. Sometimes I am so angry with him.
> 
> ...



EDIT see my next post. 

GO SEE A DOCTOR! Even if he is cheating you need to stop the circular thinking. You can't research and try to find out if you are not thinking rationally. Trust me, GO SEE A DOCTOR AND GET MEDS! Wait I just re-read your response to me. TAKE THE MEDS YOU HAVE for a good month and then see where your head is at. If you are still feeling he cheated then at least you can operate without the obsession. If not then you know this was just you projecting from what you did in the past.

Trust me. I remember when I was suffering like you are. It's almost impossible to stop the circular thinking without the meds, at least when you are in the state you are in. You will see it's like getting off a roller-coaster. Please listen to me. 

Besides all that how have you handled your affair. Have you been talking to someone about it. Have you talked to him about it. I suspect some of this is your really facing what you did and the risk you now see yourself in. You need to deal with all that. May I suggest you post your full story, the cheating. The cover up and the reveal and what that did to your marriage and your husband. I checked your posts it doesn't look like you have done that. Maybe some of this is not coming to terms with what you did. It may be helpful for you to at least talk about it, or write about it as the medium may be. 

I also suspect that your affair has broken down some of your husbands barriers as far as how he is with other women. He may have decided that since you had an affair he is entitled to enjoy some attention. He may even think it keeps you on your toes as it reminds you that he is not with impunity. I believe you need to talk about that, and decide if you can take that. Honestly though I think that is to be expected. It is very hard for the BS to keep the same agreement when he feels his WS didn't. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't stay. 

Anyway all that to say part of this, even if your husband is cheating has a direct line to your affair. Deal with that and it will also create some movement with this situation you are in now. It's symbiotic. Like the pain you have in your lower back from the injury you have in your knee.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@Talker67 you make alot of sense with that one. Walking 30 min a day is supposed to be as affective as antidepressants for depressed persons. Since the OCD medication is the same for depression it would make sense that walking may be just as effective for it too. I cant yet make myself walk. I am going to yoga for an hour everyday - but its certainly not enough. All (pretty much) of my time other than that is spent searching for clues.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Taxman said:


> NJ12
> FWIW, have you thought of transcendental meditation? It is a great way to learn to calm an overactive mind, or noisy mind. Ma'am, frankly, you are driving yourself insane by checking, checking and checking. Look what it did for you, you missed out on a family vacation, instead you do nothing but harm yourself, if not your marriage. Leave this alone. Take up TM, knitting, landscape painting, cartooning, marijuana farming, anything. This is OCD behavior. Wonderful if you work for the FBI, not so good in a marriage. Please girl, stop. Just. Stop.


We do meditate during yoga. I go once and sometimes twice a day. You are right it helps. I would not go except for a friend that comes and picks me up at a prescribed time. I think its similar to transcendental meditation? I I garden, and smoke occassionally, (not the same as growing but...) I want to stop this-so I can have a life a-and keep my marriage- but at the same time the drive to find that missing piece is there. It is overwhelming. My SIL asked what I was doing while family was away....I had nothing to say.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OK now I see that you are Nurse Jackie. I am not sure how many of us got that. Good old TAM probably one of the most technically deficient message boards on the web, lost your user ID in the great password debacle of 2016. 

I am not going to deal with your husband an whether or not he may be cheating. I believe that for right now it shouldn't be your primary concern, though it doesn't mean you can't get back to it. For right now lets just deal with you and where you are and what you are going through. From what I can gleam from your current post and your posting history this has been an ongoing thing with you for years now. It's to the point were you are skipping vacations. Here is the thing, if you husband is cheating you are going to need to be clear headed to figure it out. From this post and your post history I don't think you are operating with a clear mind right now. By the way that is not a criticism of you. As I have stated I had PTSD and I know what it's like. So --

I want you to read this. I want to you make an honest assessment of how many boxes that page ticked off as far as how you feel a lot of the time. If it feels familiar to you as I think it will I think you should think about going to see a clinical psychiatrist. I am not talking about a MC or your primary doctor, I think you should see a psychological specialist who deals with OCD. Personally I think you should make this a priority. 

Again please understand this is not me judging you but trying to help you find a better quality of life. You are in a hell right now my friend. I remember it well, but you need to really talk to an expert who can help you. I believe there is the real possibility that you can change your life. That doesn't mean the issues with your husband will go away but it means you will be in a much better place to work on them. There is hope. 

I also want to point out that you have spoken on here about your parents and how your mother also seemed to obsess about her husband. Also the fact that she cheated and I think maybe he did as well. This stuff is hereditary. If your Mother did have OCD or some other form of mental issue then it would explain some of the problems in their marriage. It may also explain how you have started to act like she does, as you even say yourself that you are trying to avoid. That is very hard to do with you grew up around it. 

Also maybe your Mom cheated because she had basically given up. Maybe she gave up because your Dad wasn't doing anything but she was thinking irrational. There in lies the danger, you probably won't cheat but you may still destroy your marriage if you are not careful. I also want to mention that everyone you have talked to about this in real life doesn't think your husband is cheating. Now I am not saying this is true I am just saying that the immediate circle is saying you're safe. That shouldn't be discounted in the sense that maybe you are not thinking clearly. So lets get you thinking clearly and then you can reassess the situation. 

Again this is not me saying you are crazy or that there isn't the possibility that your husband may have cheated. This is me saying you are in a place right now where you need an authority to help you so you can have a better quality of life, and in turn decide to move forward or not. Not in this kind of thrashing around but where you have some emotional stability so you can make more solid choices about what you want to do. Right now all your actions are out of fear, but your mind is just continuing to feed you this fear. That is what you have to stop, but in my mind that is going to take getting some help. It's beyond self medication or holistic approaches. 

Even if he did cheat, that - in my mind as someone who has dealt with the circular thinking, the aftermath of his cheating would be easier then this not being able to control your thoughts. In the sense that you would then have the pain of cheating and still have the circular thoughts. I remember my PTSD, it's exhausting and hell. See even if you were to catch him cheating it's not going to stop the circular thinking. It will just move on to obsessing over if he going to do it again or do you know the whole truth. This is why you must fix this so you can get control of your mind. Only a specialist is going to be able to help you, but you need to take agency in your health. 

Doing that will help your marriage and yourself.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@sokillme- thank you for your post. Your kindness is much appreciated. 

I read the article and find that I tick off a few of the boxes to the extreme and others not at all based on its a bit of an unusual obsession. I did find one article referring to it as being obsessed with "someone else" doing something bad (h cheating) as opposed to being afraid of myself doing something bad -which seems to be more common. The anxiety related to this issue is over the top. It is all consuming and definately interferes with my life and relationships. Looking back I think I retired last year because I was spending more and more time at work thinking of it. The amount of searching I was doing could have got me fired- and yet i continued to do it. Humiliating at best.

If I were to look at the "searching" as checking behaviour- then my "checking" behaviour is a giant symptom. I spend hours and hours. There is cleaning to be done, washing to be done, dogs to be walked, groceries to be bought. I do none of it. My DS came over for an unannounced visit- he was walking around the house with this weird incredulous look on his face. I thought whats that all about?! Then I realized he was looking at the mess.....UGH!!!!

I will clean it today because I have a friend coming over. I dont want her to come but it will force me to clean and take a physical break.

If I were to look at my filing, note taking, cataloguing, and organizing and reorganizing my "evidence" as orderliness-then that too is extreme. I reorganize the information over and over in different ways to see if I can find a trend by isolating one thing or another.- I had not seen this as a compulsive "orderliness" previously but I guess it is. I have the same stuff written over and over- on computer files, in notebooks, on scraps of paper,on my phone under notes, on my phone in pictures, on my phone under reminders- various headings, sorted differently or the same, numbered and bulleted....UGH!!!!!!!

Intrusive sexual thoughts....Everything is related to them engaging in some sexual act. He's late from work- they are having sex, he has data used on his phone- she is sexting him, he makes a phone call and leaves- they are meeting for a quickie...if he has sex with me- hes thinking about having sex with her. ....UGH!!!!!

I agree with you this has reached pathological proportions. I asked Dr to send me to someone specifically for OCD but he said he'd arrange a support group that practises CBT. Hasnt happened yet.

I am both comforted and sad that you understand this hell so well.

I think I'll take your experience as wisdom and start the prescribed meds today.

No-one knows the depths of this. It is just so crazy and embarrassing. I also thank you for pointing out that the fact I have OCD does not determine whether or not he cheated but it is presently the more pressing issue. It feels like if I get better I wont devote the energy and hours to finding that fact out. Another reason why I hesitate to take the meds. Ever watched Homeland? There is an episode where the FBI agent (who is manic depressive I think) stops taking her meds because she needs the drive and detail oriented behaviour to figure things out. H and I watched the series together. I often felt like I could relate. Just because you are crazy doesnt mean you are wrong. UGH!!!!!!

OK. I will clean the house and take my first pill. Its a start. I probably belong on the mental health forum rather than the infidelity forum....


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@sokillme interesting- the hereditary part---I never thought about a hereditary factor coming from my parents....My mom had a generalized anxiety disorder. Took all kinds of medication for it. You can set your clock by my brothers routines. In my parents later years their need for sameness when eating was a bit odd. They could only use certain plates, cups, bowls, milk jugs etc. When I cooked for them my dad stood beside me to correct any "wrong " including loading the dishwasher...He was obsessed with the dirt in his garden. Not his garden- the dirt. He spent a lot of time enriching his soil. When he was dying and we sold his house the only thing he cared about was his dirt. I had to take mounds of it from his garden and promise to put it in mine. 

When we cleaned out the house we found that he had almost no personal possessions. They had enough money. Yet, he wore the same 4 shirts and 4 sweaters every day. He was always well groomed - we were shocked that we never noticed he had very little in the way of clothing. My mother on the other hand had 23 large garbage bags full of clothes. Also a shock. Many had the tags still on them. 

I have passed this on to my DD I guess. She had anorexia a few years ago. They caught it early -she was hospitalized for a few months -monitored as an outpatient for a year after and taught CBT. They described her issue as having a brain that overfocused on the idea of losing a few pounds to improve her sport- It was very difficult for her to see that her behaviour was killing her. They said that the determined brain that made her sick could be used to make her well.

Both required a lot of strength. Now I understand what kind of personal hell she was going through more clearly. How strong and determined she had to be to overcome it. She would silently cry while she forced herself to eat a small slice of pizza. Then roll over on the hospital bed and weep till she had the strength to distract herself from the thoughts. She had gastritis while she was in there that they mistook for purging behaviour. They made her eat again (fresh food) until I insisted they stop. She was not a purger and the fact that she complied at all showed that she was dedicated to her treatment plan. She is my hero.

Going to start my own treatment plan- I will try to get rid of all my files and notes again. I did twice before but it didnt take long before I resurrected what I could from the trash and began again with more earnest.....


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

NJ2 said:


> @Talker67 you make alot of sense with that one. Walking 30 min a day is supposed to be as affective as antidepressants for depressed persons. Since the OCD medication is the same for depression it would make sense that walking may be just as effective for it too. I cant yet make myself walk. I am going to yoga for an hour everyday - but its certainly not enough. All (pretty much) of my time other than that is spent searching for clues.


sorry, yoga is NOT aerobics. I doubt it would have the same effect. But maybe exercycling for 20 minutes first and THEN doing the yoga would work. You need that increased blood flow to the brain for it to work


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Couple of things. I had this because of PTSD, if you look at my posting history I talk more about it in other threads. It was from a violent incident that me and someone I am close to went through. I was on Meds for 10 years. As I remember one thing you may notice which is a tell tail sign is checking and then a few minutes later checking again even though you know nothing has changed. It's is exhausting.

Though I think it is valiant that you want to attempt to just go cold turkey I think you should make it your mission to get the right treatment. Maybe you can be the one in your family to do that and lead everyone else. It makes perfect sense to me that people who grew up where this kind of behavior was normal would follow suit. If I were you I would do a web search for OCD treatment in your area. I would also go on a web board such as reddit and ask them how to find the best doctor if there is not a thread on that already. Follow their advice. If insurance is an issue when you find that doctor call your primary and tell him you NEED to see THIS doctor as your quality of life is deteriorating. 

Take the meds because they will give you some respite but keep an eye on the side effects. There are lots of meds, work with new doctor to find the one that is best for you. There will be people who scoff at the meds but they do work, just make sure you get the right one. Some can work too good and make you kind of live in a indifferent haze. You want to avoid that. 

Also some people act like you are weak or something from taking them. Here is the thing what you have is a medical condition, your brain is not producing enough serotonin to help you overcome these fears you have. I am not sure how it all works, I don't think anyone is yet but I see it like this. If you have a rash and you keep scratching it it gets irritated. At some point you have to stop scratching it to heal. Some times you use creams to help you stop scratching. Right now your brain is in the middle of a flair up, it is highly irritated. The meds are going to calm some of that down so then you can do the rest. Now that I am away from it I see it very much like an allergy attack. Once it gets going any slight movement irritates it and you sneeze. I found the PTSD worked the same way. For you it seems small things like a look, which may have been innocuous immediately brings you to the thought that he is hiding something. 

I want to tell yo that I no longer have any of these symptoms anymore and am completely better. I don't even take the meds. I look back on that time and sigh in exhaustion. Now as you can tell I probably have a little bit of OCD which I am sure lots of people do. When I get interested in something I tend to research the hell out of it. You are benefiting from some of that as once I realized what was going on with me, it was almost a relief to focus on something that actually had the promise of helping me, instead of focusing on stuff that made no rational sense and only lead to a black hole of repetition. So this is why I know so much about this. Learning and really believing that most of what I was fearing was really more about PTSD then anything real, took a lot of the power away from the fear. Eventually they just went away. Anyway I am glad that part of my life is over. I believe you will get there too, but you need to get assertive about your treatment. Give up the ghost so to speak with your husband for now and change your mission to figuring out if this is your issue and how you can fix it. Then if you are really healed, meaning the thoughts of your husband don't dominate your life, then you can start to figure out where you really are and what it means. I believe in the state of mind you are in now you are in no position to make a sound judgment. 

I want to say one other thing about that. Far be it from me to say that there isn't a problem. If you know my posts on here I would be the last person to say you have to live with a spouse with poor boundaries. From the sound of it your husband had that in spades. Kissing 4 other people would have been enough for me. However that doesn't seem to be were you are at, and that is OK. I just think you need to focus on getting control over your thoughts so you can then really focus on what you want to do. You may decide that this latest stuff is nothing and you both have changed from your history, or you may decide that someone with poor boundaries may just be too hard to be married to considering your sensitivity to it with your family history. You may decide to wait, but it won't be all consuming. Whatever you choose you won't be able to do that until you get control and discipline of your mind. So I say work on that first. 

The truth is right now you aren't really even working on anything, you are obsessed with finding out if something is going on. You seem to have been kind of a limbo of investigating for years. You're stuck, and it is forcing you to quit your job and avoid even having fun in your life. That is why I am sure this is more then just his poor behavior at work. Even people with spouses that ARE cheating still work and hang out with their friends. The don't get stuck they move on if they have to. 

Finally even with his poor boundries I believe some of this is cause by unfinished business about your cheating. I suspect you are projecting some of your fears onto your husband because of what you did. In the sense that you have not dealt with why you did what you did and how you would be able to do it. There is a disconnect there. You should go to IC and work on all of this stuff. Also I said in the other post that you can't just do a holistic approach, that doesn't mean I am against also doing that also. Exercise, meditation and say St. John's wort are things that really do work to elevate you mood. I exercise every day and I think it has improved my mood quite a bit. It gives you tangible achievable goals and daily successes to be happy about. It also does release endorphins that elevate your mood. So I say if you want to, do that too. 

Change your life today but do it with help so you do it right.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

NJ12
Inside there is a very wise woman. I hope that you see that pursuing poltergeists is neither fruitful nor fulfilling. Work on yourself, and the marriage will follow. You will definitely make yourself happier. And then good things will follow. A wise woman once said, "Success is 99% attitude and 1% aptitude" (Celestine Chua)


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

HUH! So I started on the prescription meds a week ago. They made me vomit until I learned to eat a good breakfast first. After a few days I went to do my usual online check of his phone logs....I looked at it and it just looked like innocuous numbers. I didnt recognize some of them and I didnt really care. Didnt try to look them up a million ways to figure out who it was. Just thought it was boring.

The next thing I noticed was- I had a thought that did not involve H or OW or infidelity or detective work. It was just a normal thought- I cant remember what it was- maybe about what to make for supper or something- It was a clear thought without the ever present underlying theme of cheating. When I realized it I tried to think of some other things to test it to see if I could have more unpoisoned ideas. It was sooooooooo liberating. I felt like there was hope.

I deleted all my files again. I cleaned the house. Then, I thought about H and all he has had to put up with. I jumped on a flight and joined H and kids at the cottage. It was a total surprise! He was asleep. He couldnt believe it- he was shocked and thrilled.

We discussed my issue and I shared with just him just how off the map the obsession had come.....he is grateful that I have started on the meds.

The medication takes 2-4 weeks before it has its full effect. There has been no "cure" by any means. I did laundry and the act of checking the pockets triggered a house wide pocket searching episode. A random receipt triggered a 15 minute drawer search...I have looked at his phone 2x and his online call log 1x each day. This sounds still awful -it is a violation of his privacy for sure...but it is soooooo much better than it was. There is the ability to move on from the thoughts when they come. They still come but are not all consuming- more like they drift in and out. A trigger is still a trigger-but without the same heart pounding panic and urgency...

I have hope that things will continue to improve. I do think much of my fears were based in my own infidelity experience. There surely was projection galore. Did he have an EA/PA? I dont know - probably will never know for sure. For now thats ok.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

NJ2
Wonderful the meds are working and you are seeing a decrease in the obsessive behaviors. It seems that you are not as obsessed. That is a marvelous leap for you. Just think how you will feel in several weeks once the med level is built up in your bloodstream. As with any med, keep in constant contact with your physician, and let them in on any changes, anything you notice. This is important, as the dosage will vary as time progresses, but right now, enjoy!
You have made your kids and husband very happy, and as a side benefit, I think you are much happier as well. Yes, you are not cured, but the road ahead is a lot brighter than it once was.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

What is the med?


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

@Taxman - thanks for the encouragement! Yes I have made myself very happy a well. While on vacation we were on our way to supper (someone else was driving) and H reached over and held my hand....it was a simple but compassionate gesture considering I had told him I had been spending up to 10 hours a day looking into his life to find evidence...
@Rubix Cubed The medication is Escitalopram (Cipralex) Supposedly has less side effects than some of the other meds used to treat OCD.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I increased my meds on drs advice. I find the rewards even more so. I can think clearly. I can think rationally. I can look at a thought and most times let it go as just a thought. To think it doesnt make it true- it is a part of the OCD rather than reality. 

H and I discuss things more openly. I have apologized with sincere regret that I have made his life a rollercoaster of emotions over the last 2 years. He has taken responsibility for his part and recognizes his lies fed the fire. 

I am no longer raging, accusing, storming, searching.....

We are working as a team on the farm and at home. We spend time alone at the farm holding hands and sipping wine in the dark. We go outside after a hard days work and look up at the stars and count our blessings. We laugh together. We talk about the kids and come to mutual agreement if theres an issue. There are sexual side effects to this medication but the freedom from the obsession and compulsion is so worth it. H often falls asleep holding my hand or with his arm around me. We are happy and at peace.

As for his possible EA/PA- my thoughts are- there was something brewing for sure an EA at least and maybe a PA who knows. Its possible that I blew it up before it went too far-or not. I am ok with the uncertainty. I would like to know but realize from my own experience that the chances of knowing everything are zero. How can you possible know that you know everything....
Because of my past I forgive whatever happened without knowing. He deserves at least that. What I did was worse.

I have noticed that because I am no longer raging and unpredictable he is trying to be more honest with me. He will catch himself and correct or make what he has said more accurate. 
@sokillme I brought up what you said about maybe not having worked through my A properly at MC. She said there has to be attonement-give H all the details with regards to the A that he requires in order to work through it....no matter how humiliating-H said I have answered everything he needs to know-
1. did I love om? no. 
2. did we talk about H in a disparaging way or make fun of him? No- never- infact OM said that I talked about H like he was Jesus
3. How far did we go sexually? no oral, no PIV, no anal.
4. How did it start? sending little funny notes at work and going out as a work group regularly. Friends- then not just friends
5. Was I planning on leaving H for OM? no- I was planning on leaving H (after much effort on my part to communicate my loneliness and sadness.) but not for OM and not because of OM
6. Where did PA take place?- ever at our house?- no only at his
7.How often? not sure it was 25 years ago-5 -10 times.
8. How could you be with him then come home and crawl in bed beside me? I dont know. I seemed to be able to compartmentalize it extremely well. 
9. Who broke up with who and why? I broke up with him because I realized I didnt want OM I wanted what he was giving me- and I wanted H to give it to me. I started to breakdown psychologically more- couldnt compartmentalize as easily and felt terrible guilt for what I was doing



attunement -work on marriage to make it better- find out what what each others needs are and how each can meet the others needs. Him- physical touch and admiration- I make sure he gets as much sex as he wants (medication doesnt prevent either of us from enjoying it it just prevents me from going over the hill so to speak) and I make a point of giving him appreciation for everything he does- he calls it my "atta boys" Know each others vulnerabilities and dont reinjure each other.

acceptance- not meaning that he is ok with it- just an acknowledgement that it happened- it cant unhappen -letting go of the anger-anger is like eating poison and expecting someone else to die.

H says he thinks we have dealt with it enough. He is confident he can trust me going forward. He says despite the hell he has been through these past 2 years (he said he was at the end of his rope and did not feel that he could take any more without getting physically or mentally ill- and I was already ill)

As to examining why I did what I did. What allowed me to behave in such a despicable way?
The best I can come up with- these are not excuses 
- I was immature, selfish, entitled, naive, attention seeking..unempathetic
-my parents both had multiple affairs so a dysfunstional relationship model was set
-I felt it wasnt a question of whether he would cheat but when he would cheat- i felt if i did it first it might not hurt so much when he did
-I didnt have proper coping methods to deal with the problems in our marriage (MC/IC)
-I had improper boundaries- I allowed myself to have a close OS friendship and to go out for lunch/coffee (I know now that those are actually dates) alone with him, I wanted validation from the opposite sex to show my worth instead of validating myself - I corrected all of those things after I ended the A. I placed very strict boundaries on myself afterwards because I realized what I was capable of for whatever reasons.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

It sounds to me that peace has entered into your life and marriage. You have worked so hard for this, I hope happiness overflows with you and your husband. God bless.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

drifting on said:


> It sounds to me that peace has entered into your life and marriage. You have worked so hard for this, I hope happiness overflows with you and your husband. God bless.


Thank you DO. You were always an inspiration to me- if you could move forward and be happy surly we could as well. Like you said you just have to keep working on it. I am so happy and more than content now. Weird but I was afraid in a way that if I we stopped all the drama and the extreme highs and lows I/we might get bored of each other. The opposite happened. 

We can see a whole life of gratitude and appreciation for each other ahead of us. We take every opportunity we can to show each other warmth and kindness.

I'm thankful he could put my A behind him. Im thankful Im able to forgive him and move forward without needing the truth. I can imagine my own truth and choose to move on from that. 

The OCD is still there lurking under the surface. It pops its head up and from time to time I give in to the checking behaviours. Sometimes I tell him and sometimes I dont. He said he understands I cant help it now and isnt upset if I do it anymore. He frequently leaves his work phone home when hes not working. I appreciate that. 

I am wishing you all the best that life has to offer. You have helped me tremendously along the way.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NJ2 said:


> Thank you DO. You were always an inspiration to me- if you could move forward and be happy surly we could as well. Like you said you just have to keep working on it. I am so happy and more than content now. Weird but I was afraid in a way that if I we stopped all the drama and the extreme highs and lows I/we might get bored of each other. The opposite happened.
> 
> We can see a whole life of gratitude and appreciation for each other ahead of us. We take every opportunity we can to show each other warmth and kindness.
> 
> ...




Nursejackie

I learned a great deal from you too, the kind words you wrote were very nice to hear. Thank you ever so much for those words. Because of your threads you brought a friendship to blossom into a reality for me. Eight days ago I got to speak with @ConanHub, I can't tell you how great that made me feel. He is doing great himself and I wish him the best. It was on your thread I believe we communicated the most, although we had communicated prior to the thread. He is a person I now call a great friend. 

You have also gone through some rough times, and yet you gathered strength to walk through it all. You've owned all of your actions and have been vulnerable during times that had to be so difficult. But you made it, you became a much better person, and now you are being rewarded with a better relationship. One that both you and your husband have worked hard for. I am so happy that you now say you are happy, you are feeling some peace, and it will get even better for the both of you. 

It takes a long time to walk this journey, and it seems the reward was so very worth it. I'm ecstatic for you and yes, your post above had a tear roll down my cheek. I'm genuinely so happy for you!!! It is my hope for you from here that you feel loved and cherished every day, that you also love and cherish your husband every day, and that maybe in the future you two renew your wedding vows. So, so happy for you both. God bless you both.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Take care sweetie.

Glad to hear good news for you.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Take care sweetie.
> 
> Glad to hear good news for you.


 @ConanHub - You also gave me inspiration! Thank you good buddy!
@driftingOn Thanks back at you for your kind words and wishes! ....So glad you got to talk to ConanHub! That is very cool! He's a favorite of mine too!


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