# Wife doesn't pay any bills, still complains.



## just_married

Here's the deal, I make almost $70,000 a year and my wife makes $30,000 (Separate bank accounts). The only bill my wife pays is her cell phone & car payment, I've also asked her to buy groceries but she usually just gets food for herself. I make more money so I have have no problem covering the mortgage and everything else.

The problem is we get in fights over the money thing frequently. She's financially irresponsible, always has been, but I love her. I don't care what she does with her money, as long as she tries to save a little, pay her two bills and keep a few groceries in the the house. But I have an issue when she asks me for money to go for a night out with her friends or can't put gas in her car.

When I refuse or ask why she doesn't have any money she throws a tantrum or cries. She says I belittle her and it takes a lot for her to ask to borrow money. She also complains about how bad she has it & how she never has any money. That's usually when I remind her how good she has it and she should be happy that I'm able to pay the majority of our bills. There's real people out there with real problems that have trouble feeding their kids and keeping the lights on. We have no kids, it's just us! We have a great lifestyle, I tell her this every time she gripes about her money. She's got 30 grand a year and 2 BILLS! Heck, I still pay for both of us every time we go out to a movie, dinner or bar just like I did when we were dating.

I don't know how to explain this to her without her freaking out & getting mad at me. I've got no problem paying for everything I do, I don't feel a lack of spending money and I don't resent it. I have a problem with her constantly acting broke!

Sorry for the vent session, if anyone has any advice I'm all ears.


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## that_girl

Well, maybe she just wants some money? Without seeing her account, I don't knwo what she's spending it on.

You make more than double what she makes. 

You still talk like it's separate money. It's both y'alls money. I work, my husband works. We do not have the same accounts. But it's our money. We take care of our crap, but if one of us needs more, we give it...and it balances out nicely. 

Maybe sit down and completely write out the budget, include fun money, savings, etc...


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## kag123

Take my advice with a grain of salt, because my husband and I have joint accounts and work with a completely common pool of money (to the point that our individual salaries are a moot point, its about the household earnings). So I may be biased and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the whole separate accounts thing.

The point is that you make more than twice what she does. That gives you a lot more power in the relationship ans if you never ever share money, it seems unfair. If you have a problem with her spending habits, that needs to be discussed. Ideally you should each have a similar monthly budget for spending money for all lifestyle little extras. And you should mutually agree on what that amount is. It doesn't matter who pays the most bills...at the end of the day if her boytomline only gives her $100 extra dollars a month and yours gives you $700 extra a month that is what doesn't seem fair to her.

Budget together. Show her on paper what your entire household living expenses are and what your bring home pay is. No one wants to feel slighted or like they are begging daddy for their allowance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just_married

that_girl,

I'm with you & I wish it was that easy. Long story short , we tried the joint budget thing. She agreed to it but couldn't stick to it. She came into the marriage with two maxed out credit cards, I've already paid one off. She has a history of being irresponsible with money.

The solution was to let her pay her couple of bills and manage the rest of her income as she pleases. We've cut up her credit cards so it has been a good way to keep her spending under control since she now has a definite brick wall on money available to her. 

Look I'm not a complete ass, if she needs gas money I'll pay it, but I will have questions about it. I've lived off what she makes as a single person not even 5 years ago. I was able to keep gas in my car & pay all my bills. How she can take home 30k with almost no bills and still can't keep gas in her car is beyond me.


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## just_married

kag123 said:


> Take my advice with a grain of salt, because my husband and I have joint accounts and work with a completely common pool of money (to the point that our individual salaries are a moot point, its about the household earnings). So I may be biased and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the whole separate accounts thing.
> 
> The point is that you make more than twice what she does. That gives you a lot more power in the relationship ans if you never ever share money, it seems unfair. If you have a problem with her spending habits, that needs to be discussed. Ideally you should each have a similar monthly budget for spending money for all lifestyle little extras. And you should mutually agree on what that amount is. It doesn't matter who pays the most bills...at the end of the day if her boytomline only gives her $100 extra dollars a month and yours gives you $700 extra a month that is what doesn't seem fair to her.
> 
> Budget together. Show her on paper what your entire household living expenses are and what your bring home pay is. No one wants to feel slighted or like they are begging daddy for their allowance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Kag,

I've addressed some of the joint questions in my previous post. But I do want to clarify that I've done the math and at the end of the month after I pay all the bills, I have less that she does for discretionary spending. Yes I make more money, but we have a decent sized mortgage and other conveniences that I pay for. So this is not an issue of me having more than her at all. 

I'd understand your concerns if it was.


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## EleGirl

She pays for her car, her own cell, her own gas.

How much do you have left over a month after you pay the bills? Do not include in that number your car payment, your cell and your gas.


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## tennisstar

He makes more, but he's paying the mortgage and most of the bills. So I can see why he's upset. I don't think he's being stingy. Sounds like she's the one with all the spending money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar

I can sympathize with the OP because I had a similar situation. I make about 85k, and my husband makes about 35k. I pay our mortgage and all our bills, except for his car payment and gas, out of my paycheck. I was coming up short every month, and he had extra money. But he kept acting like it was my responsibility to pay.everything since I make more money. We were starting to fight over it, and I was becoming resentful.

We finally combined our incomes and that has made it better. We make almost all purchases on credit cards. So we can monitor purchases (we pay them off each month).

I think some of you are focusing on his income and thinking he has more money. I can tell you from experience he probably does not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

tennisstar said:


> He makes more, but he's paying the mortgage and most of the bills. So I can see why he's upset. I don't think he's being stingy. Sounds like she's the one with all the spending money.


We don't know if he's being stingy or if she is spending all the money because we do not now how much money each of them have left over after each pays the bills they are responsible for.


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## tennisstar

Well if she makes 2000 a month and pays 600 in car payment, gas and some food, she would have 1400 left. Month. If he makes 5000 a month and pays 4000 in bills, he would have 1000 left over. Of course, I don't know how much their bills are. I just know from experience I had very little left when I paid all the bills, even though I made a lot more. I can only assume if he says he doesn't have a lot left over, he doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

just_married said:


> Hi Kag,
> 
> I've addressed some of the joint questions in my previous post. *But I do want to clarify that I've done the math and at the end of the month after I pay all the bills, I have less that she does for discretionary spending. * Yes I make more money, but we have a decent sized mortgage and other conveniences that I pay for. So this is not an issue of me having more than her at all.
> 
> I'd understand your concerns if it was.


Ok I missed the above... 
I assume that you are subtracting out of her discressionary spending per car and cell payments?

When married it usually makes sense to run the finances in a way that reflects the legal reality of marriage. The both of your are responsible for all of the bills and all of the income belongs to both of you.

So that would mean having an account from which all bills are paid. All income goes into that joint account.

Pay yourself first. This means to put 10% of your income into savings every payday. If you are both putting 10% into 410K's at work that would cover this.

Put a percentage every pay day into an savings so that you have a buffer for emergencies. This money is only touched for emergencies 5% - 10%. Just handle this as a bill. 

Then pay all of your bills to include her car and her cell out of the joint account.

Then an amount is left in the account to cover groceries and other expect bills for the pay period.

Now after all of the above is covered spelt the remainder in half so that each of you gets exactly the same amount of spending money a month.

If she canno live on that then she has to find a way to earn more money. And her new income would still go into the joint pot.

There is a book if suggest that the two of you read together *"Smart Couples Finish Rich". *The most explains how some people just blow money and what the cost of that is to the person's and the couple's financial hearlth. It's a great book.


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## tennisstar

EleGirl said:


> Ok I missed the above...
> I assume that you are subtracting out of her discressionary spending per car and cell payments?
> 
> When married it usually makes sense to run the finances in a way that reflects the legal reality of marriage. The both of your are responsible for all of the bills and all of the income belongs to both of you.
> 
> So that would mean having an account from which all bills are paid. All income goes into that joint account.
> 
> Pay yourself first. This means to put 10% of your income into savings every payday. If you are both putting 10% into 410K's at work that would cover this.
> 
> Put a percentage every pay day into an savings so that you have a buffer for emergencies. This money is only touched for emergencies 5% - 10%. Just handle this as a bill.
> 
> Then pay all of your bills to include her car and her cell out of the joint account.
> 
> Then an amount is left in the account to cover groceries and other expect bills for the pay period.
> 
> Now after all of the above is covered spelt the remainder in half so that each of you gets exactly the same amount of spending money a month.
> 
> If she canno live on that then she has to find a way to earn more money. And her new income would still go into the joint pot.
> 
> There is a book if suggest that the two of you read together *"Smart Couples Finish Rich". *The most explains how some people just blow money and what the cost of that is to the person's and the couple's financial hearlth. It's a great book.


Good advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

tennisstar said:


> Well if she makes 2000 a month and pays 600 in car payment, gas and some food, she would have 1400 left. Month. If he makes 5000 a month and pays 4000 in bills, he would have 1000 left over. Of course, I don't know how much their bills are. I just know from experience I had very little left when I paid all the bills, even though I made a lot more. I can only assume if he says he doesn't have a lot left over, he doesn't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course we can make up all kinds of numbers that could prove one or the other of them is doing whatever. Only the real numbers are what matters and I doubt those will get posted.


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## anonim

just_married said:


> Hi Kag,
> 
> I've addressed some of the joint questions in my previous post. But I do want to clarify that I've done the math and at the end of the month after I pay all the bills, I have less that she does for discretionary spending. Yes I make more money, but we have a decent sized mortgage and other conveniences that I pay for. So this is not an issue of me having more than her at all.
> 
> I'd understand your concerns if it was.


dont pay off anymore on her maxed CC. if it ever comes to D you wont be liable for it iirc, and why should you pay it off if shes irresponsible with $$$?


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## just_married

EleGirl said:


> Of course we can make up all kinds of numbers that could prove one or the other of them is doing whatever. Only the real numbers are what matters and I doubt those will get posted.


This is not a problem for me, I always maintain a budget I'm more than happy to post numbers. But like I said it's not going to support the assumption that I'm trying to keep all the money.

I get paid every other week, but I work my budget based off two paychecks a month so that's what I'm posting my monthly net income off of. I get two extra non budgeted pay checks a year that get put into a savings account towards our emergency fund.

Monthly numbers for me:
Net Income = $3480
Mortgage = $1350
Car = $350
Utilities = $250 (as we all know this fluctuates, but that's average)
TV/Internet = $150
Car Insurance for both of us = $200
Cell Phone = $85
---------------
$1095

Her
Net Income = $1900
Car = $280
Cell = $100
-----------
$1520


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## just_married

anonim said:


> dont pay off anymore on her maxed CC. if it ever comes to D you wont be liable for it iirc, and why should you pay it off if shes irresponsible with $$$?


I got tired of her griping about never having any money then broke down and pulled savings to pay off one of them.


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## EleGirl

Looking at the numbers in a way that is easier to compare...

You have $1095 a month is disposable cash
Your wife has $1,303 a month disposable cash

That's a difference of $208. So if the two of you split it, you would get $104 a month more than you get now..

Look in the Joint column. If you pooled all the money together, paid all the bills and then split what is left over you would each get $1,199.

On top of this, your are putting about $3,480 (2 pay periods) into a a savings ac**** that you control. That averages out to $290 a month.


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## EleGirl

She has $208 a month more than you do. So split that in half and you get take your $104 monthly and now you two are even... except of course for the money you put in a savings account that you control ... to the tune of an average $290 a month.

I will bet that she see it that you are keeping 2 paychecks a year all for yourself. I know that it's a saving that is for both of your needs but I can see it from her perspective as well.

My take is that you are both wrong and you are both right. 
She has not learned how to manage money. Her behavior of crying and carrying on makes her sounds like a bratty teenager. Perhaps she feels that she is being treated like a teenager, or a lessor member of the marriage. This might have more to do with that she preserves as a power imbalance in the marriage and less about money. Finances is just the field it get played out in.

I don't think you have learned yes that marriage means "we", "us". If my husband told me that I’m lucky to have him to pay the bills I’d be pretty upset. That’s not a ‘we’ comment at all. (I’m the bread winner of my family by the way.) 
You say that you pay for all dates. Well the dates are paid for by community income so legally she’s paying for them too. Do you see why it does not work well to have separate accounts. The two of you should have an activities budget that you do joint activities out of. The entire setup as it is reinforces “me” vs “you”.

Do the two of you sit down each pay period and look over your income and your bills? She has to be brought into the loop even if she has to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. 

What are the chances of you convincing her to come here and talk to us about this? Maybe we could help the two of you?

If that does not work the two of you would benefit from a counselor, and even a financial advisor who can help you two negotiate a way to handle your finances responsibly and together.


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## DTO

just_married said:


> Hi Kag,
> 
> I've addressed some of the joint questions in my previous post. But I do want to clarify that I've done the math and at the end of the month after I pay all the bills, I have less that she does for discretionary spending. Yes I make more money, but we have a decent sized mortgage and other conveniences that I pay for. So this is not an issue of me having more than her at all.
> 
> I'd understand your concerns if it was.


I suspected this before you confirmed it. I see two red flags here. One, there is a huge income discrepancy; I expect to see this where a spouse downplays career in favor of something like family. The question seems to be what she is doing to improve her income given her spending habits.

The second red flag regards what your wife does with her time. My take is you put more time into work than does she. I'm guessing you work longer hours, have to commute further, etc. If I'm correct, then how does your wife equalize the effort?

It seems your marriage has a lot of you working hard to earn the money with her doing her thing. Are you worried about just her spending habits? Or, are you thinking the money split needs to be different? IMO you should recognize that a marriage is a partnerhship but there's nothing wrong with taking effort into account when deciding on a split.

Understand the whole picture before talking with your wife. She is overlooking the inequality and looking to get more and take advantage of you. IME getting her to make do will be a difficult task - doubly so if you decide to push for a little more equality. 

IMO there are two options. The first is, as noted earlier, she is out of touch with the financial realities of your family. The second is that she has a "what's mine is mine and what's yours is ours" mentality. Either way, IMO the best way to approach this is by stating your concept of how things should be and then move on to how they current are.

For example, you could say "I sense you are consistently short on money, you see I DO have money, and why you ask for more. I take your concern seriously, so I dug into the budget. My goal is that we have a situation where the benefits of our labor are equally distributed (or distributed according to effort or any other system you feel is appropriate)."

And then, after laying out your philosophy, you hit the details. You make X, pay bills Y that are for both of you, and have Z left over. She makes A, pays only B, so her leftover C is much higher. Then you say you feel that she needs to make do with what she has (or even pick up another bill, as the case may be).

If she is just ignorant about the money situation, she should be fine with your explanation. If not, she may feel entitled to more than you. Steer her back to your philosophy about equality and ask her to defend her position. Does she feel entitled to premium treatment? Does she think you waste money or are underemployed? The point is to take a difficult talk and keep it focused on issues that can be identified and potentially solved.


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## DTO

EleGirl said:


> Looking at the numbers in a way that is easier to compare...
> 
> You have $1095 a month is disposable cash
> Your wife has $1,303 a month disposable cash
> 
> That's a difference of $208. So if the two of you split it, you would get $104 a month more than you get now..
> 
> Look in the Joint column. If you pooled all the money together, paid all the bills and then split what is left over you would each get $1,199.
> 
> On top of this, your are putting about $3,480 (2 pay periods) into a a savings ac**** that you control. That averages out to $290 a month.


Hmmm, 

My first thought is that the discrepancy is larger than $208. The OP's numbers say $425 but you are assuming she pays $217 a month more than he in groceries and household misc., even though nothing supports that number, and making your analysis from that. Even if he were spending those extra paychecks on himself, he still takes back less than she.

The other thought is that the OP is subsidizing his wife's income tax liability as well. This budget is all net income. Even at a budget of two checks per month, the OP's monthly gross is $5,385 vs. her $2,500 (215% difference). The net incomes are only 183% different. Given that marital income is taxed as a whole at one rate, she is claiming too many deductions and he is covering that.

I will reiterate my position that this might not be just about the numbers. I personally would be offended at the prospect of my spouse having a tantrum after knowing that she already got more than me *and I was putting that much more effort into making the money to begin with (that size discrepancy in income does not just happen)*.


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## EleGirl

DTO said:


> Hmmm,
> My first thought is that the discrepancy is larger than $208. The OP's numbers say $425 but you are assuming she pays $217 a month more than he in groceries and household misc., even though nothing supports that number, and making your analysis from that.


He says that he expects her to buy groceries (keep food in the house). He does say that she only buys food for herself. Does this mean that they each cook different meals? While he does mention groceries he does not put in the budget anything for necessary things such as cleaning supplies, toiletries, TP, etc etc. He does not even put in it the monthly grocery amount. Generally if a person leaves these out of the budget it means that they are not the person buying them. 

I have a sideline of forensic accounting for similar disputes whether it’s for a couple trying to figure out what’s going on with their finances or a for a divorce. I always talk to both parties separately. It seldom sounds like they are talking about the same financial situation. Money and emotions get so intertwined it can be very hard for a person to be objective.

Under normal circumstances I would be able to find out exactly how much is spend at places like grocery stores, home depot, etc. I would want a couple to keep all of their receipts for as long as possible. None of that is available here. 


DTO said:


> Even if he were spending those extra paychecks on himself, he still takes back less than she.


We have zero insight into how she is spending the money she has. She’s not here to speak for herself. They need to go to see marriage counselors and financial advisors who can speak to both of them and look at the records. Surely she should have the right to bring in he receipts and show how she’s spending the money. 

I’ve seen a lot of cases where one spouse pushes off all groceries, cleaning supplies and other essentials for running a household on the other spouse. Then they go on about how that spouse is irresponsible with money. This happens all the time. 

I really do not think that we have enough knowledge of their situation to judge his wife. We help him and her more if we advise them to get help from someone who can hear both sides and who can actually look at their records.


DTO said:


> The other thought is that the OP is subsidizing his wife's income tax liability as well. This budget is all net income. Even at a budget including two checks per month, the OP's monthly gross is $5,385 vs. her $2,500 (215% difference)


And she is in a higher tax bracket because of his higher income. We are talking about a marriage here right? Or is this some kind of a business deal?


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## EleGirl

DTO said:


> I will reiterate my position that this might not be just about the numbers.


I agree which is why I suggested a book on marital finance, marriage counseling and financial counseling. 



DTO said:


> I personally would be offended at the prospect of my spouse having a tantrum after knowing that she already got more than me *and I was putting that much more effort into making the money to begin with (that size discrepancy in income does not just happen)*.


 How do you know that he is putting more effort into earning income? I know people who work long, hard hours for $30K a year. Higher income does not always equal more effort. 

Sometimes the difference in pay has to do with the kind of work a person does. I have a sister whose income disparity is about the same. He is an air traffic controller. She works with disabled people, finding companies who will hire them, training them to do their job and to handle their special issues and helping them become self-sufficient so that they can get off of government disability. She works every bit as hard as he does. But she earns 1/3 of what he does. Thank goodness he’s a good person and does not have an attitude towards her hard work.

I agree if he works longer hours than she, if she does get to keep more money to spend on herself, her attitude is ridiculous. But again she’s not here to defend herself and they need to see a MC and a financial counselor and work this out. 

But if he’s putting off a lot of the grocery expenses and household expenses on her then she might be at a breaking point.


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## MEM2020

ThatGirl,
Usually i like your posts. Not this one. No matter how you slice it, she has a lot of discretionary spending money. 

WAY too much to need more. They should be saving now in case later they want kids. This will end badly if the OP doesn't step up and have a firm talk with his wife about how coin works.



UOTE=that_girl;944586]Well, maybe she just wants some money? Without seeing her account, I don't knwo what she's spending it on.

You make more than double what she makes. 

You still talk like it's separate money. It's both y'alls money. I work, my husband works. We do not have the same accounts. But it's our money. We take care of our crap, but if one of us needs more, we give it...and it balances out nicely. 

Maybe sit down and completely write out the budget, include fun money, savings, etc...[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ItMatters

I'm with the husband on this one. He's carrying all the responsibility for the financial viability of the household- his wife gets to live like a teenager with near NO responsibilities and treats him like a dad asking for more pocket money. YUCK. 

I feel for the guy and he's right to feel that this is not a good situation.


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## Chelhxi

Does she let you look at her bank statements at all? I'm all for separate money if that's what works (what DH and I do) but only with full disclosure. We know or can find out, exactly what the other person has spent money on and how much money we each have. There's zero secrecy.

If you keep doing separate accounts, you need to know what she is doing. I'm the financial person in our relationship and I track all the money I spend. So when I got married I eased into the subject of tracking my husband's money as well. I was really casual and said that tracking and spreadsheets are my hobby and made it clear I wasn't checking up on him at all. He was a little reluctant as he'd always managed his own money, but he let me look at the statements and now he barely glances at his own statements. I track all of our accounts and only give him retirement account advice.

So you need to take some control of knowing where her money is. The first thing to do is just track what she is spending on. Very important NO judging. Don't say anything about her choices. Just record them. Then once you have a few months of data, do up some charts - most financially unsavvy people are better with charts than numbers to show where her and your money is going. Have it like a family meeting, not an accusation session.

In this way you might be able to slowly get a handle on improving her spending and at least treat your finances as if you're part of a team. Ideally she'd be contributing about 1/3 of your joint requirements, including savings. But baby steps first.


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## MEM2020

Elegirl,
Two questions/
- what responsibility should she have for paying off some of the remaining maxes out credit card from her discretionary funds?
- If he puts the amount he is "saving" in the shared pool - what makes you think it won't just get spent
- I didn't notice any recalc in your numbers - against her income - to reflect the very well defined savings model you posted earlier: 401k plus 5-10 pct more in savings






EleGirl said:


> She has $208 a month more than you do. So split that in half and you get take your $104 monthly and now you two are even... except of course for the money you put in a savings account that you control ... to the tune of an average $290 a month.
> 
> I will bet that she see it that you are keeping 2 paychecks a year all for yourself. I know that it's a saving that is for both of your needs but I can see it from her perspective as well.
> 
> My take is that you are both wrong and you are both right.
> She has not learned how to manage money. Her behavior of crying and carrying on makes her sounds like a bratty teenager. Perhaps she feels that she is being treated like a teenager, or a lessor member of the marriage. This might have more to do with that she preserves as a power imbalance in the marriage and less about money. Finances is just the field it get played out in.
> 
> I don't think you have learned yes that marriage means "we", "us". If my husband told me that I’m lucky to have him to pay the bills I’d be pretty upset. That’s not a ‘we’ comment at all. (I’m the bread winner of my family by the way.)
> You say that you pay for all dates. Well the dates are paid for by community income so legally she’s paying for them too. Do you see why it does not work well to have separate accounts. The two of you should have an activities budget that you do joint activities out of. The entire setup as it is reinforces “me” vs “you”.
> 
> Do the two of you sit down each pay period and look over your income and your bills? She has to be brought into the loop even if she has to be dragged into it kicking and screaming.
> 
> What are the chances of you convincing her to come here and talk to us about this? Maybe we could help the two of you?
> 
> If that does not work the two of you would benefit from a counselor, and even a financial advisor who can help you two negotiate a way to handle your finances responsibly and together.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

My take is discretionary spending is proportionate to income earned. It isn't fair if they both have same amount of fun money - they make and pay different amounts. Its not like the wife is saddled down with bills here. And considering the husband is in charge of the mortgage, why shouldn't he be in control of the emergency money? I don't understand people who fail to contribute have hard feelings over having no control. The H might have hard feelings over her having control over money he earned. They have no kids, her contribution to to family isn't raising the kids. Her benefit is living in a home and living a lifestyle she could not afford on her own. This isn't forensic accounting, it's a man trying to save the family from his wife's proven poor spending habits. She would ruin them with more control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bribrius

just_married said:


> Here's the deal, I make almost $70,000 a year and my wife makes $30,000 (Separate bank accounts). The only bill my wife pays is her cell phone & car payment, I've also asked her to buy groceries but she usually just gets food for herself. I make more money so I have have no problem covering the mortgage and everything else.
> 
> The problem is we get in fights over the money thing frequently. She's financially irresponsible, always has been, but I love her. I don't care what she does with her money, as long as she tries to save a little, pay her two bills and keep a few groceries in the the house. But I have an issue when she asks me for money to go for a night out with her friends or can't put gas in her car.
> 
> When I refuse or ask why she doesn't have any money she throws a tantrum or cries. She says I belittle her and it takes a lot for her to ask to borrow money. She also complains about how bad she has it & how she never has any money. That's usually when I remind her how good she has it and she should be happy that I'm able to pay the majority of our bills. There's real people out there with real problems that have trouble feeding their kids and keeping the lights on. We have no kids, it's just us! We have a great lifestyle, I tell her this every time she gripes about her money. She's got 30 grand a year and 2 BILLS! Heck, I still pay for both of us every time we go out to a movie, dinner or bar just like I did when we were dating.
> 
> I don't know how to explain this to her without her freaking out & getting mad at me. I've got no problem paying for everything I do, I don't feel a lack of spending money and I don't resent it. I have a problem with her constantly acting broke!
> 
> Sorry for the vent session, if anyone has any advice I'm all ears.


cant help you here. i gave up on mine and finances years ago. 
Even when she worked she didnt pay her own bills. After bailing out creditcards, a car repo, student loans.
i finally just took her paycheck and paid her bills for her. Then put them in a joint account and paid all the bills out of the joint and gave her a allowance.
At some point you have no choice. she was not only hurting her credit but also bringing mine down. I was always signing on things for her trying to boost her credit back up and establish her financially. Never worked she didnt follow through so i paid. And she didnt really work much, so would ring up debt then not work and leave me paying her debt back. At the moment my wife isnt on any of the accounts, and hasnt worked in years. And we actually have more money without her working or ringing up debts.
just take her check, and pay her bills for her. Give her a allowance. some people just cant handle money. just how it is. you can love her just as much with less headache doing it for her.


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## DTO

EleGirl said:


> He says that he expects her to buy groceries (keep food in the house). He does say that she only buys food for herself. Does this mean that they each cook different meals? While he does mention groceries he does not put in the budget anything for necessary things such as cleaning supplies, toiletries, TP, etc etc...
> 
> Under normal circumstances I would be able to find out exactly how much is spend at places like grocery stores, home depot, etc. I would want a couple to keep all of their receipts for as long as possible. None of that is available here.
> 
> We have zero insight into how she is spending the money she has. She’s not here to speak for herself. They need to go to see marriage counselors and financial advisors who can speak to both of them and look at the records.
> 
> I’ve seen a lot of cases where one spouse pushes off all groceries, cleaning supplies and other essentials for running a household on the other spouse. Then they go on about how that spouse is irresponsible with money. This happens all the time.
> 
> And she is in a higher tax bracket because of his higher income. We are talking about a marriage here right? Or is this some kind of a business deal?


Hey Elegirl, I am also a really good numbers guy and am considering building a similar sideline (seriously). So it's good we speak the same language. My ex tried to manipulate money to make it look like she deserved more, so I have insight there too.

Regarding the groceries, I think you've made my point. He does say she buys her own food, which implies he does the same. It's more appropriate to assume they spend the same for groceries (since they are both buying for one) and thus the free cash discrepancy remains at $425.

How she spends her own money is not relevant here beyond the distinction between necessities and free money. Personally, I tend to view this division strictly. Either partner may claim that a hobby or lunch out is essential to personal well-being and thus an expense. My ex used to do this, and of course it's B.S. It seems like he has hit the majority of the types of essential expenses. He of course could have the amounts wrong, but if we doubted every person that came here little would get done.

On the tax issue, yes it certainly is a marriage. My point was merely to demonstrate that she is not paying her share here, either. It is another support for my argument that she already gets much more than him, and still selfishly wants more. I'm suspicious that she is really that obtuse - these are simple concepts that most adults would readily grasp.

Another thing to note is that if she were to file separately, she would likely pay more than she does now.


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> My take is discretionary spending is proportionate to income earned. It isn't fair if they both have same amount of fun money - they make and pay different amounts. Its not like the wife is saddled down with bills here. And considering the husband is in charge of the mortgage, why shouldn't he be in control of the emergency money? I don't understand people who fail to contribute have hard feelings over having no control. The H might have hard feelings over her having control over money he earned. They have no kids, her contribution to to family isn't raising the kids. Her benefit is living in a home and living a lifestyle she could not afford on her own. This isn't forensic accounting, it's a man trying to save the family from his wife's proven poor spending habits. She would ruin them with more control.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ETA I see husband spending 69% of his income and wife spending 20% of her income on bills.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bribrius

the wife is most likely hiding expenses and debt she has.


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## EleGirl

MEM11363 said:


> - what responsibility should she have for paying off some of the remaining maxes out credit card from her discretionary funds?


From what OP said the credit card bills have been paid off.
He had two choices before he married her. 1) not marry her until she paid the bills off herself. 2) marry her debt is paid for with community income. 
He chose #2. Since legally, after marriage, all income is community income. This is what he chose to do when he married her. Now he’s using his choice as a way of putting her down.


MEM11363 said:


> - If he puts the amount he is "saving" in the shared pool - what makes you think it won't just get spent


There are ways to protect a joint savings…. Requiring two signatures is one way to do it.

I will once again repeat my suggestions… They go to marriage counseling, financial counseling and get on the same page financial…. (the book will help with that). If they are not on the same page financially then the marriage is doomed. 

How the couple will handle their finance should be worked out before marriage. If she is as irresponsible as he says than he made a huge mistake marrying her. This will be a HUGE thorn in their side for the entire marriage and will very likely be a big part of a future divorce.


MEM11363 said:


> - I didn't notice any recalc in your numbers - against her income - to reflect the very well defined savings model you posted earlier: 401k plus 5-10 pct more in savings


Yes, I did not rework his numbers for the ideal scenario. I was only working with what he gave us.


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## MEM2020

El,
I am puzzled by your tone throughout this thread. It seems - skewed. Here's what I mean by that:
- You mention your forensic accounting skills and yet your treatment of the actual numbers as presented seems rather casual for instance: no mention at all of the idea that she needs to save. Missing his statement that he has paid off one of her cards. (HEY - OP - what's the story on the second maxed out card? Either you are paying - at least the interest - or she is - which is it?)
- You have now mentioned community property again (third time?) and yet seem to have heartburn that the OP was saving money into HIS account. If it's all legally a 50-50 deal, there is no "his" if they split. There is however a clear sense that he is doing that because if he didn't it would get spent. 
- I think most readers would get the sense that the OP has adopted a somewhat parent/child style with his W where money is concerned. And why wouldn't he? She is indeed acting like a child - where money is concerned. 

You mention his (2) choices below. Since your - umm - expertise in this subject area conflicted with my quick and dirty assessment, I decided to verify your statement about her debts becoming community property. I found the text below in a single google search. Is it wrong? 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You’re not responsible for any debts that your spouse brings into the marriage. However, you can be affected by them. If old debts force your spouse into bankruptcy and you bought property or hold bank accounts together, his or her half could be forfeit, leaving you in trouble, too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



EleGirl said:


> From what OP said the credit card bills have been paid off.
> He had two choices before he married her. 1) not marry her until she paid the bills off herself. 2) marry her debt is paid for with community income.
> He chose #2. Since legally, after marriage, all income is community income. This is what he chose to do when he married her. Now he’s using his choice as a way of putting her down.
> 
> There are ways to protect a joint savings…. Requiring two signatures is one way to do it.
> 
> I will once again repeat my suggestions… They go to marriage counseling, financial counseling and get on the same page financial…. (the book will help with that). If they are not on the same page financially then the marriage is doomed.
> 
> How the couple will handle their finance should be worked out before marriage. If she is as irresponsible as he says than he made a huge mistake marrying her. This will be a HUGE thorn in their side for the entire marriage and will very likely be a big part of a future divorce.
> 
> Yes, I did not rework his numbers for the ideal scenario. I was only working with what he gave us.


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## EleGirl

MEM,

My posts and numbers are not the end all here. The point of them was to make the point that the OP needs to get himself and his wife to marriage and financial counselors and work on issues in the marriage... their different view of finances and mine vs her's view.

The OP left out an entire level of of expenses ... groceries, cleaning, hygine... the actual dollar figures. These types of things can consume a lot of $$ is a person is not careful. We have no idea which of them is spending what on these items.

I don't want to spend a lot of time speculating on incomplete information. Instead he and his wife need to get to those who can either help deterimine what is really going on and help the two of them learn with an approach that will strengthen the mariage.


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## EleGirl

MEM11363 said:


> You mention his (2) choices below. Since your - umm - expertise in this subject area conflicted with my quick and dirty assessment, I decided to verify your statement about her debts becoming community property. I found the text below in a single google search. Is it wrong?
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> You’re not responsible for any debts that your spouse brings into the marriage. However, you can be affected by them. If old debts force your spouse into bankruptcy and you bought property or hold bank accounts together, his or her half could be forfeit, leaving you in trouble, too.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


“He chose #2. Since legally, after marriage, all income is community income. This is what he chose to do when he married her. Now he’s using his choice as a way of putting her down.”

Your quote above between the “>>>>” actually speaks to my point. Legally the debt one spouse brings into the marriage is not community debt. But that debt can have an effect on the spouse who did not have the debt.

The OP married a woman with debt and no assets. Hence he accepted the reality that her debt would be paid off by community assets/income. He might have even chosen to pay it off with sole assets that he held prior to marriage. But these are his choices. 
Since all of her income after marriage is community income, how else were these debts going to be paid off?


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## chillymorn

no kids ......

put your foot down and tell her its both your money and put it in a joint account then make a budget and stick to it.

make sure she isn't hiding some debt behind your back and if she balks walk...... no run as fast as you can to a lawyer and divorce her.


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## Goldmember357

why would you marry someone who is

Financially irresponsible
Likes to start fights
Wont buy food for you two 
Only buys things for herself
Complains constantly 
Cries to gets her way
Does not contribute


Why?

you get what you put out man. You are getting what you chose you cannot totally change individuals. I cannot give someone advice who's issues are all very easy to deal with its so simple it really is.


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## turnera

Here's the bottom line. She's a woman. She's expecting the man to support her. The old adage, my money is our money but her money is her money.

Stop this NOW or you will spend the next 50 years cleaning up behind her. Your pattern is you try to be stern and then she nags and she whines and she martyrs herself, and you cave.

Do you know what the next step in that is? She loses all respect for you because you've turned into a Nice Guy, and she finds another man who is a 'real man' who WON'T put up with her crap, and she sleeps with him.

Tell her today that you WILL be joining money into one account, no words about it. I tried to do what you did but found out after 20 years, when I finally looked at DH's accounts, that he was $100,000 in debt.

Don't make that mistake.

Cancel her account, change the online form to have her check and your check automatically deposited into the one account, give her a $500/month allowance, and everything else goes toward bills, savings account, and a child college savings account.


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