# Fighting dirty



## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do. Hopefully some of you have good advice. Our number 1 problem? Really bad fighting. About a month ago we had a five-day fight over terminology. Yes, that's right, over a word. (ignorant, if you are curious, I think the word has bad connotations and when I asked him to stop calling me ignorant he refused.)

After that fight we agreed to some fighting rules. But tonight our fight got nasty again and the fighting rules did no good. In a past relationship I (as a different 'we') went to counseling and it really helped, however my spouse simply refuses. He says this fighting is all my problem - so he won't go.

Tonight, we had to leave a BBQ early because our son got sick (all over me). After we got home I was completely bummed out and looking for support from him - the fighting started when he called me like 'Caylee Anthony's Mom.' Completely below the belt and he knew it. He apologized, but I was incredibly angry. So the fight continued, got physical when he (as he usually does) went to the computer to write down my 'quotes' (that he actually fabricated this time) and I took the mouse from him. After the fight he left which is what we agreed on.

Now I'm sitting here and wondering what's next. He refuses counseling so that's out. This fighting gets worse and the fighting rules don't seem to help. Most of all I feel like when I'm emotionally drained he isn't there for me. He keeps 'tabs' on things I say and do to use against me in fights or just plain says things like I'm a bad Mom to really get me angry. And I get angry. I want to stop the cycle. help


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I have met some people who could fight all by themselves, but they were insane. The rest of us can just choose to not participate. I don't yell, hit, use ugly names, etc, etc. That's sandbox stuff and I just refuse to crawl into a sandbox at my age. It's kinda pointless anyway. Things get solved through adult communication and fighting tends to not solve anything. You can commit to the rules all by yourself and if things are getting ugly, just stop participating. You can always pick the subject up again when you both are calm. Hubby collects ammo in anticipation of the next battle. If he knows he'll never get the chance to use it, he'll quit collecting ammo. If he wants to write down all your words, true or not, what do you really care? It doesn't change who you are and it's not like anyone is going to be the winner of a marital dispute. Either both win or both lose. Being right isn't a practical objective. Peace ought to be. 
I guess I'm old fashioned but I still believe the idea is that when folks get married, they should function pretty much like one person. Only a crazy person deliberately hurts themselves. Regardless of who is right or wrong, neither will enjoy peace unless both do. If the rules aren't working, just step out of the ring. Go for a walk or a drive and let the heavy air settle a little. When tempers flare, stupid stuff gets said and words, like bullets, can't be recalled once they're fired.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

wunderbar said:


> I want to stop the cycle.


Okay, so stop it then. 

I don't get what the problem is. I don't understand what you expect. You are with a man who enjoys putting you down and calling you names, and you seem to enjoy the mental and verbal abuse you receive from him. If you didn't enjoy it, you would leave a man who mentally and verbally abuses you and refuses to seek help to improve the condition of his marriage.

What do you want anyone to say or do when neither you nor your husband are willing to do anything about your own situation? 

The only way to stop the fighting is to stop fighting, but neither of you will do that.

The only way to improve the marriage is to seek help to learn how to improve it, but he refuses.

The only way to stop abuse is to leave, but you are still there.

What do you want?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I have met some people who could fight all by themselves, but they were insane. The rest of us can just choose to not participate. I don't yell, hit, use ugly names, etc, etc. That's sandbox stuff and I just refuse to crawl into a sandbox at my age. It's kinda pointless anyway. Things get solved through adult communication and fighting tends to not solve anything. You can commit to the rules all by yourself and if things are getting ugly, just stop participating. You can always pick the subject up again when you both are calm. Hubby collects ammo in anticipation of the next battle. If he knows he'll never get the chance to use it, he'll quit collecting ammo. If he wants to write down all your words, true or not, what do you really care? It doesn't change who you are and it's not like anyone is going to be the winner of a marital dispute. Either both win or both lose. Being right isn't a practical objective. Peace ought to be.
> I guess I'm old fashioned but I still believe the idea is that when folks get married, they should function pretty much like one person. Only a crazy person deliberately hurts themselves. Regardless of who is right or wrong, neither will enjoy peace unless both do. If the rules aren't working, just step out of the ring. Go for a walk or a drive and let the heavy air settle a little. When tempers flare, stupid stuff gets said and words, like bullets, can't be recalled once they're fired.


Great advice! :smthumbup: :iagree:

When there is a fight between a couple, either both of them win or both of them lose! ( I am copying yours!  )

I have learned not to think I am important, I have learned not to defend my ego. Who cares who is right, who is wrong. Not having a heavy chest is more important for me. 

Have a big smile, make some silly jokes, and brush it away with humor!


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

unbelievable...truer words were never spoken. I also wish I didn't have as hot of a temper as I do. I've tried very hard over the years to control my temper - meditation, etc. But it seems like since becoming a parent, having little sleep and no time to myself, my temper has gone back to what it was when I was a kid and DH knows exactly what button to push to get me hot.

But you are right, I know the trigger - its always a snide comment about my ability as a Mom or as a maid . So now if I hear that I will walk away, take the higher ground. Getting angry only suggests there is truth to the lies. 

After tonight, though, I'm not sure if there is any relationship left to work on. We were at a breaking point last month with that long drawn out fight and he was ready to leave if the fighting 'didn't get better.' So we shall see.


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

River1977 said:


> What do you want anyone to say or do when neither you nor your husband are willing to do anything about your own situation?
> 
> What do you want?


There is definitely a part of me, my ego or whatever one might call it, that's hears your comment and says "Yeah, I shouldn't put up with this, I deserve better." Maybe I do. But the fighting is say 1/600th of our relationship that I present. Meaning the 599/600 of the rest of the moments of our relationship - his help with our son, around the house, financially, is without fault, spotless.

We have a family and that is 100% my priority. It's no longer about what I need and want - its about my family. That fact has been a rough transition in that I lament moments like today where a simple BBQ, that was the highlight of my week, ended suddenly when my son got ill. So, too, it feels as though our relationship needs no longer get priority and when I complain about this, his knee-jerk reaction is 'you want to be like Caylee Anthony's mom'...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I think some people pick fights because they feel insignificant and crave attention and validation. His snide comments might have nothing to do with your child care abilities or housekeeping. Is he a neat freak? Does he devote an unusual amount of his free time to child care tasks? If not, then he's not terribly interested in parenting or house cleaning. He must be just dreaming up reasons to have what he really values...a passionate interaction with you. 
If you're yelling at him, you're giving him your undivided attention and for as long as the fight continues, he's the most important thing to you. When things are calm, you might try to set aside time to show him positive attention. Play a game with him or just sit and talk (calmly). Kids do the same thing. If they crave attention and don't get it, they'll often act badly to force your attention on them. 
Just an idea. Whatever happens, remember that you're an oak and you have no buttons. Your anger is a tool which you use when it suits your purposes and only when you choose to use it. Nobody has power over you. The person that makes you mad has power over you.


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I think some people pick fights because they feel insignificant and crave attention and validation. His snide comments might have nothing to do with your child care abilities or housekeeping. Is he a neat freak? Does he devote an unusual amount of his free time to child care tasks? If not, then he's not terribly interested in parenting or house cleaning. He must be just dreaming up reasons to have what he really values...a passionate interaction with you.
> If you're yelling at him, you're giving him your undivided attention and for as long as the fight continues, he's the most important thing to you. When things are calm, you might try to set aside time to show him positive attention. Play a game with him or just sit and talk (calmly). Kids do the same thing. If they crave attention and don't get it, they'll often act badly to force your attention on them.
> Just an idea. Whatever happens, remember that you're an oak and you have no buttons. Your anger is a tool which you use when it suits your purposes and only when you choose to use it. Nobody has power over you. The person that makes you mad has power over you.


He's not particularly neat, he helps a lot with child/house care. He feels as stretched as I do since we both work more than full time (he has a side business and I unfortunately work on demand).

I'd love to believe the he just wants attention, but he loathes fighting (or so he says). He grew up in a very broken home (his mother married and divorced 8 times over his life, was an alcoholic) and I'm sure a lot of his insecurities come from his upbringing. He has been to counseling a lot since he was a child and now claims to be 'fixed' even though last year he expressed interest in going to discuss on-going family problems.

I try very often to get him to do something with me and he's always too busy. Recently he has been working on work from home until 2-3am regularly. I'd love to watch a movie with him, anything. But he refuses to let us get a babysitter to have a night out. (he says he thinks a babysitter would no longer be able to handle our high-needs toddler). So the status quo continues :/.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not a lot of interaction involved with watching TV or watching a movie (unless you're at a drive-in and you're both naked in the back seat). Guess I was thinking of an opportunity for you both to really talk and focus on each other. From what you described, this guy may not have a clue what healthy communication sounds like or what a loving husband acts like. Pity.


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Not a lot of interaction involved with watching TV or watching a movie (unless you're at a drive-in and you're both naked in the back seat). Guess I was thinking of an opportunity for you both to really talk and focus on each other. From what you described, this guy may not have a clue what healthy communication sounds like or what a loving husband acts like. Pity.


He doesn't have a terrible idea about what a good husband should be - loves his son, provides a stable roof for our heads, and tries to support my career. But there do seem to be giant, gaping holes in his abilities to comfort me emotionally. Which is hard for me because no one else really gets how hard things get with our son. How much of ourselves we've given up.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I not sure everyone should be pig piling on the H. It appears to me Wunderbar is taking some responsibility here and admitted this happened with her last relationship. 

Remember, you can only control you. I think are coming to a realization here about "fighting", just don't. You may disagree at times but stop the pissing matches. It appears everything is in place for the both of you to have a great relationship if you can get control of this issue.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

With or without a wife and kids, I suspect this guy would still be working and he'd live somewhere, so he doesn't get Husband of the Year just for having a job and paying rent. Inability to feel empathy is a pretty significant flaw.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I have a wife like that. The only plausible defense is for you to pay zero attention to it. One of two things will happen. Either it will greatly decrease or stop, or, it will mutate into something even more toxic and weird. My own blushing bride chose the later route, one where she lives in a constant state of muttering, grumbling, hissing and making obnoxious comments 24/7. I would say that's a remote likelihood for normal people though. So clearly one option for you is to pay it no mind. Don't respond in any way, as if you didn't hear it, didn't hear him. As if he's not in the room.

Drama is oxygen to drama queens, you know that, yes?


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

I appreciate the thoughts and feedback. To clarify - my last relationship was in therapy for other reasons mainly having to do with my partner's infidelity. 

The update is he has moved out 'indefinitely' and refuses to discuss the fight with me. So now I guess I'm taking care of our son, our house while he sits at the pool all day. I don't even know what to say. On the one hand, I'm hurt from the fight and on the other now feel hurt by being abandoned like this. I think he trying to 'teach me a lesson' by demonstrating what being a single Mom is like, yet its such a terrible thing to do to someone who is supposed to be your partner. Is this always going to be his response when things get tough?

I don't feel like I can do anything other than give him his space and don't know what to say when he 'decides' to return.


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