# Is it wrong to give up?



## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

A background first.

I'm 33, she's 32. We married young and started a family young. We had our first child when I was 21. We currently have three kids. (12, 9, and 1.5yrs)

When we were first dating, sex was no problem. We'd have sex at least once or more a week. Once married, it turned into about once every two weeks. And after our first child, about once a month was the norm. 

This has trended on through our marriage since. She blamed the pill/IUD on it. So after our last child I had a vasectomy this year several months ago. (She hadn't been on any birth control after our last child was born) But nothing seemed to change.

Week before last was our anniversary. That prior weekend we had a night, but she wasn't into it. She mentioned we could try again our anniversary night. So that night rolled around and I was given the cold shoulder. I'll admit, it hurt bad. 

I had a cold after that and we've been avoiding the subject up until last night. I finally asked what I was doing wrong. She mentioned that she's tired due to the kids and that I never help. I've worked on this in the past, but it never has made any difference. I asked her what I was doing wrong. Because it's obvious she has no desire, and when we do have sex, it's mainly to get me to leave her alone. Even when we have sex, when I try to ask what I need to do for her, I only get "don't worry about it" answers. Often she doesn't climax, and when she does, I honestly question the sincerity of it. (Yes, I know she's had climaxes before, prior to getting married/having kids, there was no problem.)

I talked with her and said we shouldn't worry about having sex. I don't think it's fair for either of us in a way. I feel that she feels pressured to offer something. But I'm just feeling depressed about the whole thing.

Outside our sex life, our marriage is fine. We're both employed, make a nice living, have no financial stress, and have wonderful kids and families. I really love her and she's the mother of my children and she loves them. I wouldn't want anything different. But is it wrong to throw in the towel after so many years? (No, I'm not in any way talking about divorce or anything like that. I'm just tired of even trying to work things out sexually.)


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

And on a side note, I know at one time she had an injection to help from her OBY/GYN. But there wasn't much if any change. The only time we've been "busy" was when she was trying to get pregnant the 2nd and 3rd time in our marriage.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't think its wrong. Its sad - but understandable. 

One of my friends was told by her husband - just know that I will always want you and want to have sex with you. However, I will no longer ask you to have sex with me because you have hurt me too much and I cant take being rejected any longer.

And he meant it. I think months went by before they had sex again. Fortunately around that time was when our group of friends was forming and there are several ladies who love sex and talk up sex while we are together and I think this influenced her to start to change her mind about sex. I think now days they are pretty average for their age and length of marriage.


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> One of my friends was told by her husband - just know that I will always want you and want to have sex with you. However, I will no longer ask you to have sex with me because you have hurt me too much and I cant take being rejected any longer.


I guess that pretty much nails how I feel these days. I've lived with our relationship for years. But the whole anniversary night thing just cleared things up for me. 

But I'm honestly kinda clueless after all these years. What is "average" for a couple our age?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sunkist said:


> Outside our sex life, our marriage is fine.


A good marriage that is sexually dysfunctional isn't a good marriage. You wouldn't claim that a restaurant was good, except for the food, right? Sex is one of the primary benefits of marriage.



> But is it wrong to throw in the towel after so many years? (No, I'm not in any way talking about divorce or anything like that. I'm just tired of even trying to work things out sexually.)


If you're asking if you can simply decide not to want to have sex with your wife anymore, no. I don't think you can. A healthy man who loves a woman will want to have sex with her.

But, you're going about things the wrong way. Being busy and stressed is the #1 excuse women with a low sex drive give their husbands. And it's almost always total bullsh!t. That's why, when you take over more of her responsibilities, to alleviate her stress and ease her time management, the sex doesn't improve.

It's possible your wife has hormonal problems that cause her low drive. She should see a doctor about that. Not promise to see a doctor. Not schedule an appointment next summer. Not get a general physical and "forget" to bring up her hormone questions. Go get blood work done, pronto. If you have to schedule the appointment, drive her to the appointment, and sit in the exam room with her, then do that.

The most common reason we see for women who have low drive is simply a decline in attraction for their husbands. And that's on you. You need to be as attractive as you can be. That may be enough to get her attention back on you. If not, at least you'll be better prepared for entering the dating market after your inevitable divorce.

Check out Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. for more information.

Good luck.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It may not be wrong, but it won't solve the problem. And the chasm between you and your wife will likely widen as the resentments and frustrations fester. 

At least, this was my experience as a husband whose wife decided to shut down our sex life...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> A good marriage that is sexually dysfunctional isn't a good marriage. You wouldn't claim that a restaurant was good, except for the food, right? Sex is one of the primary benefits of marriage.


I guess I've just grown accustomed to it?




PHTlump said:


> If you're asking if you can simply decide not to want to have sex with your wife anymore, no. I don't think you can. A healthy man who loves a woman will want to have sex with her.


I certainly do, but I'm just tired of being hurt.



PHTlump said:


> But, you're going about things the wrong way. Being busy and stressed is the #1 excuse women with a low sex drive give their husbands. And it's almost always total bullsh!t. That's why, when you take over more of her responsibilities, to alleviate her stress and ease her time management, the sex doesn't improve.
> 
> It's possible your wife has hormonal problems that cause her low drive. She should see a doctor about that. Not promise to see a doctor. Not schedule an appointment next summer. Not get a general physical and "forget" to bring up her hormone questions. Go get blood work done, pronto. If you have to schedule the appointment, drive her to the appointment, and sit in the exam room with her, then do that.


I mentioned that in my second post, she's had an injection, little to no measurable effect.



PHTlump said:


> The most common reason we see for women who have low drive is simply a decline in attraction for their husbands. And that's on you. You need to be as attractive as you can be. That may be enough to get her attention back on you. If not, at least you'll be better prepared for entering the dating market after your inevitable divorce.


I have no desire for a divorce, I've been with her and this for all of this marriage. I mentioned that's not at all in the picture.


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

PBear said:


> It may not be wrong, but it won't solve the problem. And the chasm between you and your wife will likely widen as the resentments and frustrations fester.
> 
> At least, this was my experience as a husband whose wife decided to shut down our sex life...
> 
> ...


That's my concern as well. It's a catch 22. Doing nothing hurts, doing something hurts.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sunkist said:


> But I'm honestly kinda clueless after all these years. What is "average" for a couple our age?


The Kinsey Institute - Sexuality Information Links - FAQ [Related Resources]
According to those numbers, 20.1% of married men your age report sex monthly, or less. A third of men reported sex twice a week, or more. Women your age reported having slightly less sex, but still comparable numbers.


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## Bamzor (Aug 15, 2012)

Some of have found their was someone else. Have you ever checked her text logs, FB, email... Does she delete everything...or password protect? Doesn't have to be a PA, but more likely an EA. Its hard for some to be with multiple partners.
While this is probably not the issue..... You are getting some good advice. Sorry your here.


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

Bamzor said:


> Some of have found their was someone else. Have you ever checked her text logs, FB, email... Does she delete everything...or password protect? Doesn't have to be a PA, but more likely an EA. Its hard for some to be with multiple partners.
> While this is probably not the issue..... You are getting some good advice.


Nothing password'ed, nothing deleted, nothing going on that I know of. I feel I'd never have to worry about that.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sunkist said:


> I guess I've just grown accustomed to it?


Sure. People can grow accustomed to all kinds of mistreatment.



> I certainly do, but I'm just tired of being hurt.


I understand. I'm simply stating that you can't just decide not to be hurt anymore. The best you could do is to give her the impression you're not hurt. But you can't do that without changing many other things.



> I mentioned that in my second post, she's had an injection, little to no measurable effect.


A hormonal imbalance that results in low libido isn't cured from a single injection. It's an ongoing process that has to be managed in partnership with a patient and her doctor.

If she had an imbalance in the past, she needs to follow up with her doctor.



> I have no desire for a divorce, I've been with her and this for all of this marriage. I mentioned that's not at all in the picture.


I understand. I applaud your commitment. Your wife can mistreat you and you will stay with her. I'm simply allowing for the possibility that you may be overly optimistic. Some men believe they can withstand a lifetime of abuse, only to find that they can't. Some of these men end up divorce.

From a practical standpoint, if your wife believes that, no matter how badly she treats you, you will never, ever leave her, then she has little motivation to change her behavior. She can have sex with you, and you'll support her and her children, or she can refuse to have sex with you, and you'll support her and her children. That's not a tough choice for someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

Another practical consideration is to suggest trying sexual surrogates. If your wife will consent to you going out to a bar once in a while and having some no-strings attached sex with another woman, then you can satisfy your physical needs and your wife can still avoid having sex with you. Perhaps you can bring that option up?

For what it's worth, I've been where you are. I got a steady decline in sex that started even before the wedding. I got an endless number of excuses that grew increasingly lame. I was hurt to the point of having my soul crushed to dust by the woman I loved, and thought she loved me. My life-long commitment reached a crisis where I was ready to end it all.

And that's when I turned it around by refusing to tolerate it any more. My wife can bang me, or she can get out and make room for someone will be happy to take her place. And she is happily fulfilling her marital obligations. She is actually more attracted to me now than she was when I was being a brave soldier and accepting her lame excuses and hoping that, maybe after the holidays I could get lucky.

It's possible to change your marriage. But you have to start by changing yourself.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sunkist said:


> Nothing password'ed, nothing deleted, nothing going on that I know of. I feel I'd never have to worry about that.


Don't just dismiss this idea out of hand. It happens. If you're saying that an affair is outside the realm of possibility for your wife, that means you're saying that she's either so repulsive that no man would want her, or that she's morally infallible. Neither of those are likely to be true.

I'm not saying that she's cheating. But only a fool dismisses the possibility of his wife cheating without examination.

FWIW, the steady decline of sex, the hormone treatment in the past, and the lack of red flags for affairs (excessive online activity/unexplained absences/sudden change in libido) make an affair seem unlikely. It seems much more likely that her hormones have steadily decreased her libido and/or her attraction for you has steadily declined.

Good luck.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Average for us then was 3 times a week and once or twice the week she had the visitor.

I feel for you regarding the anniversary snub. Having gone through it myself a year ago I know how low that can make you feel.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

No it's not wrong to give up, but depends how you define giving up?

Giving up being validated by your wife's willingness to have sex? Yup, give it up.

Giving up trying to be nice/helpful/useful to get sex? Give it up.

Giving up your interests/friends/passions to be there in case she changes her mind about sex? Give it up man.

Basically, you're in a situation many husbands find themselves in: Their wives aren't attracted to them anymore, you don't know why, you don't even want to admit that she isn't attracted to you (and she probably doesn't want to admit it either). Both of you are casting about for excuses and explanations that don't exist.

Maybe doing the MAP in MMSL with help. Maybe the exercised in No More Mr Nice Guy will help. Maybe hitting the gym more will help. 

Nobody really knows. So for what it is worth, my advice is just starting living the life you want, start being more selfish, and stop caring as best you can. Refocus you energy on making you happy.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> The most common reason we see for women who have low drive is simply a decline in attraction for their husbands. And that's on you. You need to be as attractive as you can be. That may be enough to get her attention back on you. If not, at least you'll be better prepared for entering the dating market after your inevitable divorce.
> 
> Check out Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. for more information.
> 
> Good luck.


To follow up, lots of men and women change when kids come. They jump into the parent mode and quit maintaining their adult/lover mode.

So think back to when you were dating and the sex was good. What were you like and what types of things did you do? Odds are that some of those traits were attractive to her and that you have stopped doing them. So pick them up. The most common one is some form of exercise, but not always.

For me, a big one was humor and joking. I had stopped a lot of that because I was an adult with responsibilities. Stupid, but what can I say. Me telling silly jokes or making goofy comments with my kids made a difference. She likes that part of me.


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> A hormonal imbalance that results in low libido isn't cured from a single injection. It's an ongoing process that has to be managed in partnership with a patient and her doctor.
> 
> If she had an imbalance in the past, she needs to follow up with her doctor.


I will talk to her more about this subject.



PHTlump said:


> I understand. I applaud your commitment. Your wife can mistreat you and you will stay with her. I'm simply allowing for the possibility that you may be overly optimistic. Some men believe they can withstand a lifetime of abuse, only to find that they can't. Some of these men end up divorce.
> 
> From a practical standpoint, if your wife believes that, no matter how badly she treats you, you will never, ever leave her, then she has little motivation to change her behavior. She can have sex with you, and you'll support her and her children, or she can refuse to have sex with you, and you'll support her and her children. That's not a tough choice for someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.


I understand where you're coming from on this.



PHTlump said:


> Another practical consideration is to suggest trying sexual surrogates. If your wife will consent to you going out to a bar once in a while and having some no-strings attached sex with another woman, then you can satisfy your physical needs and your wife can still avoid having sex with you. Perhaps you can bring that option up?


Sorry, I have several objections to that. I'll admit, I've fantasied about it. But I know first hand how out of whack that makes a marriage from people I've known to go down that path. I've even seen it wreck my parents marriage when one was unfaithful. 



PHTlump said:


> For what it's worth, I've been where you are. I got a steady decline in sex that started even before the wedding. I got an endless number of excuses that grew increasingly lame. I was hurt to the point of having my soul crushed to dust by the woman I loved, and thought she loved me. My life-long commitment reached a crisis where I was ready to end it all.
> 
> And that's when I turned it around by refusing to tolerate it any more. My wife can bang me, or she can get out and make room for someone will be happy to take her place. And she is happily fulfilling her marital obligations. She is actually more attracted to me now than she was when I was being a brave soldier and accepting her lame excuses and hoping that, maybe after the holidays I could get lucky.
> 
> ...



I've asked in the past about bettering our relationship. I've tried demanding it. Maybe I've gone about it the wrong way.


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> To follow up, lots of men and women change when kids come. They jump into the parent mode and quit maintaining their adult/lover mode.
> 
> So think back to when you were dating and the sex was good. What were you like and what types of things did you do? Odds are that some of those traits were attractive to her and that you have stopped doing them. So pick them up. The most common one is some form of exercise, but not always.
> 
> For me, a big one was humor and joking. I had stopped a lot of that because I was an adult with responsibilities. Stupid, but what can I say. Me telling silly jokes or making goofy comments with my kids made a difference. She likes that part of me.


I honestly think the parenting thing has the most to do with it. She comes from a large family. I only have a sister. I was content with two, but agreed on the 3rd. 

Thinking back when things were good. We were much younger and had no kids. We simply enjoyed the company of each other. Going to a movie, going out for a dinner, exc. I've always been the joker of the relationship. I haven't really dialed that down though?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

sunkist said:


> Sorry, I have several objections to that. I'll admit, I've fantasied about it. But I know first hand how out of whack that makes a marriage from people I've known to go down that path. I've even seen it wreck my parents marriage when one was unfaithful.


If I understand PHTlump correctly the suggestion could simply serve as a rhetorical device.

It's an interesting paradox that chronically refusing spouses often still put fidelity on a very high pedestal, which is an ethically untenable position.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

This story touches on so many different aspects of my own personal history that I hope I can lend some helpful advice.

Most Importantly: Your husband and his religious conditioning and the guilt associated with his inability to finish seminary. Forget the financial aspect. As John Lee stated buckle down and revise your budget. I have a strong impression your husband feels the need to help people through his profession. Working in the field of finance is just not going to coincide with that desire. What about using his education to get an advanced degree in counseling? What about being a Marriage and Family Therapist? What about a transition into becoming a Financial Recruiter or Headhunter. One of the most rewarding careers I ever had in my life personally and financially. I had no financial background but I love people and it made me successful and trusted in the industry. 

I agree with the other posters that he is being set up to be terminated or forced out because he will not be able to take another demotion or will just burn out. 

You: Quit taking the abuse at the retailer. You are a grown woman let them know they need to lose the attitude or you are walking. by the way I used to be a Buyer for one of the largest retailers in the country. I was very well respected. A couple of years ago due to the change in the economy I found myself stocking shelves at Target at Christmas. I established boundary's pretty quick with all the hot shots who could barely string a sentence together. Do not be afraid to lose that job (again budget issue).

Continue to be supportive and let your husband know you want him to be successful and content. I take this very seriously. I do not underestimate what kind of toll his failure could do to your marriage. I have lived it personally. I am more than willing to help in anyway I can so if you are in the US I am sure I can help him get connected to a network of people that can help him find a different opportunity or put him in another direction. Feel free to PM me anytime.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

wrong thread? Or am I just totally confused?


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> wrong thread? Or am I just totally confused?


I was just about to quote it and ask myself. Obviously the reply doesn't fit my thread at all.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

sunkist said:


> I was just about to quote it and ask myself. Obviously the reply doesn't fit my thread at all.


Hey, don't you have some seminary studying to do????

lol sorry couldn't resist.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

My H and I are in our 40s. I would say we average 2-3x/ week ans I think that is very average - neither high nor low. Most weeks I would say 2x/week as he travels quite a bit for work. 

Excuses are just excuses. Two people who want to have sex will find a way - regardless of where, when or how it gets done. Instead of dealing with the basis of the sexual decline its easier to use this or that as an excuse. The problem is that it takes both people getting real to change the dynamic. One of the two can want change as much as they want air but it will make no difference unless the other person wants change too.

Editing to add that certain times on a woman's life are less sexy than others for sure. One of those times is having babies and toddlers. Mothers of young children get some leeway from me - as far as I'm concerned. And yet - this would be temporary.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

i am so sorry. I not quite sure how that happened even though it is obvious.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sunkist said:


> Sorry, I have several objections to that. I'll admit, I've fantasied about it. But I know first hand how out of whack that makes a marriage from people I've known to go down that path. I've even seen it wreck my parents marriage when one was unfaithful.


I'm not talking about your garden variety affair. I don't suggest you sneak around and cheat on her. I'm suggesting that you very calmly suggest to her that, since she is unwilling to satisfy your sexual needs, that she agree to you outsourcing the job.

Most likely, she will object. This is telling because it means that she puts her own needs and desires above yours. You should be obligated to fulfill her needs, yet she is not obligated to fulfill yours. This can either serve as a wake-up call for her, or for you.

Of course, there is also the possibility that she won't object. If she truly has no desire for sex with you, then why would she feel jealous toward another woman having that which she doesn't want? If so, the two of you could agree to a concubine, or a series of no-strings-attached sexual partners.



> I've asked in the past about bettering our relationship. I've tried demanding it. Maybe I've gone about it the wrong way.


I think that's the case. You were probably asking/demanding for her to change. That's not happening. She's happy. Why would she change? She gets what she wants and doesn't do anything she doesn't want to. She's living the dream. Should Hugh Hefner stop banging 25-year old models and settle down with a nice, post-menopausal, great-grandmother? Not likely.

Your best bet to change your wife is to change yourself. There is a good chance that she will change in reaction to the new you. If you become a man who demands to have his needs met, then she must choose between meeting those needs herself, or having other women meet them. That's your best bet.

Good luck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

sunkist said:


> Thinking back when things were good. We were much younger and had no kids. We simply enjoyed the company of each other. Going to a movie, going out for a dinner, exc. I've always been the joker of the relationship. I haven't really dialed that down though?


Interesting. So you had no hobbies that you have dropped, no activities away from her that you have quit, you are exactly the same as when you two dated before kids arrived? 

Take another look and see if that is accurate.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Do you two go on dates without the kids? Maybe a weekend for just the two of you? My promise to myself, in LTR 2.0, is to not stop dating my girl. Remember what it was like in the beginning, with hot hotel sex, time spent walking around holding hands, doing goofy things with just the two of us. We'll see how it goes. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sunkist (Nov 5, 2013)

PBear said:


> Do you two go on dates without the kids? Maybe a weekend for just the two of you? My promise to myself, in LTR 2.0, is to not stop dating my girl. Remember what it was like in the beginning, with hot hotel sex, time spent walking around holding hands, doing goofy things with just the two of us. We'll see how it goes.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly it's harder and harder to do that with three kids. But even when we only had one or two. We still went out frequently.

I did have a talk with her at lunch. We're going to see if we can somehow get out together as a couple this week.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

A post I made in a similar thread in July of 2012 and have reposted it several times.



Amplexor said:


> Any one that knows my story will recall that my wife and I were in a very bad place a few years back, hit bottom, damn near divorced but journeyed to a very long but successful recovery. We are very strong as a couple today, committed and loving.
> 
> However our sexual drives are still a mismatch. We deal with the problem better than we used to but had made little progress. I understand my wife is in menopause which has lowered her previously high-drive. With menopause has come an increase in weight lowering her self esteem. And her job is very stressful leaving her exhausted at the end of the day. I am very empathetic to her feelings on all three but there are two people in the marriage.
> 
> A few months ago we had "that talk" again and again it took a familiar path. Stress, weight, drive... With empathy and respect I told her I understood all those reasons but that quite frankly she has done nothing to try and address them and that I didn't see this ever improving much over where it was today. I told her we were going to try a different path this time. "For the next 60 days, I want you to submit yourself to me when I want sexual intimacy." My wife is extremely strong willed and independent of soul. Her icie blues flashed for a moment then she took her stare off of me, thought about it and responded, "That's not an unreasonable request." Initially she found it a bit awkward ("knowing she had to") but we settled into a very good pattern. My wife does enjoy sex when we get started so she was not being "dutiful" during it. Keep in mind, I am in my mid 50s so I'm not swinging wood five times a day any more. 2 or 3 times a week is more than sufficient for me. It put us in a good rhythm that has continued on passed the initial period. She has also begun to work out regularly and watching her diet more closely. When we went though our R one of the things we did was rebuild the foundation of the relationship and two areas we became much more successful at then we had been previously were communication and empathy. Both had a strong part in helping us improve this area of the marriage.


In our case this worked very well to get us back in a groove. We are still having sex once or twice a week. She does not initiate often but rarely declines. 

Giving up something that is this important to you is wrong and your wife needs to understand this. When our marriage tanked a big part of it was my withdrawal from her due to the lack of sex. Other issues didn't get addressed and we became roommates. Sex dropped to once every couple of months then went fully dormant for two years. Being here as long as I have been I can tell you lack of sexual intimacy is one of the most common issues husbands have in their marriages and it can be deadly to the union. It can breed resentment that can spill over to many areas of the marriage. In some cases it can kill it. 

With that conversation my wife understood how important it was to me and finally, really worked at it, even though she knew I wouldn't leave the marriage over it if it didn't improve. Think about how this might work for you.

I would also strongly suggest you both read "The 5 Love Languages" to better understand what says I love you to each other. The intimacy issues in marriages are addressed very well.

Good luck.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> My H and I are in our 40s. I would say we average 2-3x/ week ans I think that is very average - neither high nor low. Most weeks I would say 2x/week as he travels quite a bit for work.
> 
> Excuses are just excuses. Two people who want to have sex will find a way - regardless of where, when or how it gets done. Instead of dealing with the basis of the sexual decline its easier to use this or that as an excuse. The problem is that it takes both people getting real to change the dynamic. One of the two can want change as much as they want air but it will make no difference unless the other person wants change too.
> 
> Editing to add that certain times on a woman's life are less sexy than others for sure. One of those times is having babies and toddlers. Mothers of young children get some leeway from me - as far as I'm concerned. And yet - this would be temporary.


I agree wholeheartedly that excuses are nothing more than that. I disagree that one person cannot effect change. When one person changes, the whole dynamic changes, and the other person will change as a result. Now that change may not be what the first person wanted, but it will give the first person the information they need to make an informed choice about the relationship.

Sunkist I suggest you get and read a few books :

Divorceb busting by Michelle Weiner Davis
MMSLP by Athol Kay
And No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover

Start with those. Soak up the ideas, and put them into practice. You need to change the dynamic in your marriage. YOU, not her. If you fail to do something, I guarantee you things will not improve. If you are lucky, you'll get divorced. If you aren't, you'll be in the CWI section trying to figure out what the hell happened.

Ask your wife if she feels an emotional connection to you anymore. Ask her if she is happy with how her life is turning out. Tell her you are not, and that you aren't going to keep going in the same direction. That you are going to work on your issues, and you are going to change as a result, and that things are going to change in your life.

Do you talk much? About things other than the kids or bills? You need to. Are you honest with her? Do you tell her how you feel, or do you push the feelings down and try to just take it, because that's your job, and you don't want to make waves? Do you have trouble asking for what you want, or are you busy scrambling to try to provide for your family? When you do finally talk, do you feel heard, or does nothing ever change anyway?


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

How is your physique? Have you gained weight since you've met? If so, how much?


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## Janna (Nov 6, 2013)

This is SO SO normal! I can relate to your wife (and I know of many other couples who face the same issue) I sometimes wonder why female and males were made so COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! One thing I can say- sex and intimacy are incredibly important to a marriage. It's what separates it from just a friendship. I know it's easier to avoid the issue but it wont work. Keep on trying, keep on listening and search out help.


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