# Husband always sides with daughter



## HannahK

This weekend following a bridal shower for my daughter that I had put many hours and love into, my daughter and I had an argument. I told her she was bossy. A few other words were exchanged, not too derrogatory on either side but my daughter said to me "You are meaner to me than anyone I know." This hurt me deeply. Later when we were in the car going home (this was an out or town shower) I said in front of both of them, "Sherry did you say to me that I was meaner to you than anyone you know." She said yes and my husband clearly heard her. His response was an expletive about how long the trip home was going to be. He did not reprimand her for speaking to me this way. I sat in the back of the car and cried my heart out while the two of them sat up front and laughed and talked on the way home. Today I told him that I was hurt that he had not told her it was wrong to speak to me that way and his response was "I do not get involved in your arguments." This feels like much more than not getting involved. It feels like he is supporting her disrespect of me. I am very hurt. Am I wrong to be offended by her and by his lack of support of my feelings. This is not the first time this type of thing has happened and I often feel that I am a fifth wheel in their relationship. She is both of our daughter, not a stepchild, just for the record.


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## turnera

Warning: You won't like what I'm about to say.

You are expecting your husband to defend you to an adult (I assume she's an adult if she's getting married)? Why? This IS an issue between you and your daughter, and has nothing to do with your husband. 

Food for thought: women almost ALWAYS turn out just like their mother. IF you think she is bossy, are you willing to consider the possibility that she learned it from you?

The way you describe the ride home...honestly? I think you're being a prima donna.

First, you deliberately said 'did you say to me...' in front of your husband. You were staging it so that you could play the victim and get him to defend you. YOU KNEW she said it. SHE KNEW she said it. What other reason could you have for saying it that way, except to say it out loud again in front of your husband, to make it look like your daughter was being 'bad' while you were being a 'victim'?

Second, the instant you said that your husband said something about the long trip tells me that he has lived with this exchange between you and your daughter probably most of your daughter's life. In other words, he KNOWS that you and your daughter go at each other's throats. Which means that YOU are just as guilty in this pattern as she is. And it means she is just like you. So, if she is bossy, then you probably are, too.

Third, you sat in the back and cried? Whatever for? Except to look like a poor mistreated victim; and if they didn't pay attention to you and gush all over you and apologize to you, you would be sure to _continue_ to 'cry your heart out,' just waiting for them to notice and do what you want. And what do they do? They recognize the pattern - YOUR pattern - and decide to ignore it and be purposely happy and laughing, because they're tired of you trying to manipulate the situation so that everyone treats you like a poor mistreated victim.

Fourth, _you_ started it, by telling her she was bossy. On the day of HER wedding shower! It's HER freakin' shower! Is it not her right to be bossy on HER day? Or was this day really about you? You DID be sure to mention all the hours and effort YOU put into it; one usually doesn't talk that way unless they're waiting for people to recognize their valiant sacrifices (and point it out in case someone misses it).

So...yeah, I think you're wrong. I think you started it, and then pitched a fit when people didn't circle around you and support you, like you're used to people doing.

You're the more mature adult, supposedly. I would suggest you take a step back and look at your relationships with your daughter and your husband, and be honest with yourself about who is really the instigator.


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## HannahK

Well I bet you win every mom of the year award given! Either that or you do not have children. You are right, I do not like what you wrote because you have indulged in reading chapters between the lines. I do not know where you got the idea that women most always turn out like their mothers. Children are a "product" of both parents as well as who their friends are, their eduction, environmental issues and more. If you knew my daughter, you would say she is much more like her father. As for wanting my husband to defend me, you can bet I wanted him to tell her it was disrespectul. My own father would never have stood for one of my brothers, grown or not, speaking to my dear mother that way. We were taught respect. And I respect my daughter as well. You claim (since you know so much about this) that I started the argument by calling her bossy. Totally untrue. I did not just lunge into "you're bossy" out of the clear blue but only after she stood up in the middle of breakfast which she had finished and I obviously had not and said "Let's go." 

As for my crying, you are darned tootin, I did but not to get their attention. I was hurt. I was in the very back of a mini van supposedly reading. But I cried to myself and not to their knowledge. 

Her shower was not AT ALL about me. This argument ensued the day after the shower and I can guarantee that both the shower invitations and the credit given at the shower were to my sister an my niece who were the hosts on paper because I feel it is not proper for a mother to host a shower. Since no one else was doing it, however, I pulled it together for my daughter. Not for one moment did I take any credit. 

I bet you do not have many friends with your all knowing attitude. Perhaps YOU had better step back and take a look at yourself.


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## turnera

*shrug*

I'm not here asking for advice. And I didn't expect you to admit anything. Your choice to listen to what other people see in what you write.


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## turnera

fwiw, if I misread the unspoken subtext in your thread, I apologize. But I don't think I did. And I reiterate, it's not your husband's place to defend you to your daughter, who is a grown woman (I assume). Your issues with your daughter are obviously a long-standing issue, so if you want to improve things, look at that.


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## turnera

Oh, and I know about crying. And how you can use it to get people to feel sorry for you. Even if you're not doing it out in public for all to see. I used to do that with MY husband. Until he realized I was only doing it to get him to feel sorry for me, and he quit babying me and stopped reacting. It sounds like your husband is doing the same thing.


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## TNgirl232

As i once said to my ex-husbands fiance - You choose to let a child hurt your feelings - your the adult and older. It doesn't matter what age your child is.

My dad would never step into a fight with me and my mom because he knows we are both big girls who can stand up for ourselves. I think you need to get a bit thicker skin because what she said was out of temper. Your husband just wants to be left out. He didn't give your daughter a high five and say way to go. If she went running to him and said "mom said I was bossy" would he lecture you that you shouldn't be saying that to your daughter?


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## HannahK

Well evidently the ways of raising childrren to be respectful of others has totally changed and no one bothered to tell me.
I also guarantee that if I heard my husband speak disrespectfully to my daughter, I could call him on it because sometimes it takes a reminder that we are human beings who must treat each other civilly.

Back to my other letter, you would have to be an unfeeling cold fish not to care how the relationship between parents and kids played out and a stone to just set there and let them beat each other up. Sometimes intervention is needed. A few carefully chosen words may be all that is needed,

On sitting in the back and crying, would it have been better if I had sat behind the steering wheel crying as my husband did before the trip got under way. The sweet consolation between daughter and dad then was quite sweet before they turned to laughter.

My husband and I have mortgaged our home, cashed in our 401k and taken on extra jobs to try to give our daughter the special wedding she dreams of. Our finances are becoming precarious, with no savings account, no emergency fund, nothing beyond day to day living. Every cent that comes in goes to the wedding. When I suggested a beautiful gown that cost $600 less, my husband said "She will get what she wants:' So we got the $2000 gown. We got the best musicians, the best photographer and caterer. No discussion of saving money was allowed. Now her daddy remains the prince who will never tell her anyhthing she says or does is wrong. She is a sweet and very loved young woman and is capable of making everyone see that her way is right even when it is not. I am on the other hand am viewed as a selfish prima donna who wants to call all the attention to herself and be babied. At least that is what turnera says. And I say to her that I hope you do not make a living writing this kind of drivel because you are so off bat, you would quikcly be out of a job. Before you start walking a mile in the other woman's high heels, be sure you know how they fit.


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## HannahK

Actually, yes he would be telling me that I said hurtful things to Sherry and that she told him about it and that I should apologize to her and find a way to make it up to her.


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## Nekko

She is your daughter, your husband's role is not to mediate your conflicts in any way, ever. I don't see why you'd expect him to pick sides either, from the two most important people in your lives. But if he does, be sure that he'll pick your daughter because he was used to protecting her since she was a few months old (and behavior doesn't change that easily) as opposed to you who he sees as an adult that can take care of herself. 

If your daughter told you you're the meanest person to her, before you get all annoyed and start an argument, please analyze if you aren't in fact what she says you are. I hate it how most people think if they are parents they should automatically be respected. This is why despite my mother offering me whatever i wished financially, because i never formed an emotional bond with her (highly critical, always complaining, always scared) we've never been close at all. In fact told her a million times how much it bothers me to take so much criticism from her, and since she didn't stop i just maintained the distance. Funny thing is she's only like this with us, her daughters. So please, before being pissed on your husband, figure out why it is you're having arguements with your daughter in the first place.


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## turnera

Sorry, but you sound like a spoiled woman who's used to getting attention and if you don't, you create a ruckus. People like you will never see yourself for what others see - you wouldn't be able to accept it. But you'll continue to go through life creating obstacles for other people to avoid doing so. 

I'd venture a guess that your husband is sick and tired of living with a woman who continually gets into 'issues' with other people and then runs to him to defend her.

I don't say this to tear you down. You asked for opinions, and apparently you're getting the same one from everyone, and you don't like it. But if everyone in a room except one sees the same thing, it's a safe bet that that one other person might have something to learn from asking herself WHY they all see something she doesn't.

If I believed I had a cute laugh, but one day at a luncheon, all my friends told me the truth - that they cringe when I laugh, I'd sit back and figure out that THEY have the truth of it, and I need to consider what they are saying. I'm not so vain that I can't accept criticism.


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## scarletblue

Let me start by saying that I'm sorry you and your daughter aren't getting along. I am a mother of 4 (two grown and not living at home), and I know how it can be painful if we are not getting along.

Now, here's where you're probably going to get mad at me too. You mentioned how parents are to teach their children respect, and you're mad at your husband for not taking your side. Aren't you her other parent? Should you not share the blame for your daughter not respecting you? 

I also believe that parents should show a united front. It sounds from your story that you set up the whole thing to get your husband to scold your daughter. Why would you do that to him? Why would you put him in that situation? It really sounds like you have big jealousy issues where your daughter and husband are involved.

If my husband heard kids say something disrespectful to me, you bet my husband would say something to them! If I'd set up the little scenario that you did, my husband would probably look at me like I'd lost my mind. It's like tattling, which is also a no-no in my house.

It sounds to me like the underlying issue is the financial situation this wedding is putting you in. It also sounds to me like it is primarily your husband's doing. You're putting a lot of time, effort, and money into this wedding, and it sounds like you're feeling unappreciated. That is an issue between you and your husband, and it sounds like you are resenting your daughter for it.


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## turnera

> It sounds from your story that you set up the whole thing to get your husband to scold your daughter. Why would you do that to him? Why would you put him in that situation? It really sounds like you have big jealousy issues where your daughter and husband are involved.


That's the point I was trying to make. You're all three adults. Deal with it as adults.


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## ChattyKathy

I agree somewhat with scarletblue at least about the parents presenting a united front. The Bible teaches us that two married people are "one flesh". A parent and a child don't have that relationship and they shouldn't. After all one day the children will leave and the parents are again just the two.
To exalt the child over your spouse is to teach your child that the spouse is not important. Therefore Sherry's dad should have stood with his wife and re-enforced what should have been taught all along, and that is that you do not show disrespect for your parents. I believe that children should be respected as well but they learn by example and showing them a united front is one of the best things they can learn for their own future marriage. Children learn early if they can pit one parent against the other. If they can, it makes the child the leader of the home and not the parent. That is backwards from what the Bible says. It sounds like Hannak has been through these type situations before and was trying to make her husband and her daughter see the light, especially if the husband did not hear the daughter say how mean she was. She was apparently hurt by her daughter's words after she had worked hard to make a nice day for her. I believe that Sherry and her mother need to talk this out but ultimately Hannak deserves an apology and a show of solidarity from her husband. It sounds like the daughter is very spoiled and probably her father's darling .On the financial part, it seems that they are going over and beyond what they can afford and that they may suffer for that in the future. How old are these parents? Is their retirment at risk? I am going against what most everyone else is saying but I feel sorry for the mom. I have a stepdaughter who took advantage wherever she could with her father and this almost led to a divorce. So I can relate to the pain. Good luck Hannak with the wedding. I hope your daughter learns to appreciate you more.


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## turnera

CK, this is not a child. It's a woman; at least one old enough to get married - she hasn't given her daughter's age. So I assume at least 18, and you have to start treating her like an adult at some point. It's time they get out of the mother/daugther dynamic and treat each other as adults. If her daughter were 30, would she still be whining to dad about daughter talking back to her? Gosh, I hope not!



> It sounds like Hannak has been through these type situations before and was trying to make her husband and her daughter see the light, especially if the husband did not hear the daughter say how mean she was.


It sounds to me, from how she writes, that she has set UP these types of situations before. And based on his reaction, it sounds like HE has been through these situations before and doesn't trust his wife to be the innocent victim.

If the daughter is spoiled, how do you think that happened? Of course it's possible that daddy always pampered daughter, but that's not what she wrote. You are seeing that because that's what happened in YOUR situation, so of _course_ you feel sorry for the mom. 

I'm trying to read between the lines and what I saw was a very melodramatic woman upset that they didn't take the bait. I may be wrong.

Is there history between dad and daughter? Obviously. Is there a stroy behind the OP? Sounds like it. Even when people give her plausible, logical arguments against what SHE sees, she doesn't even give it a moment's thought. She just continues to blame everyone but herself. That says a lot. I know she's hurting. But I've seen plenty of people spend their whole _life_ being hurt because they want to be the center of attention, and everyone else doesn't agree.

If I'm totally misreading her post, I apologize. But it seems that the majority of the people here are seeing the same thing, and that tells me that I'm probably not. I'd like her to be happy, and I think she CAN achieve that if she'll take a step back and look at herself.


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## HannahK

I am curious about how much time you spend handing out advice. I see you have been a member only a month and have posted over 700 times. Are you professionally trained in any way or do you just know everything. I am new to forums and not familiar with how it all goes together. Also thanks to chattykathy for your empathy.


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## HannahK

HannahK said:


> Tumera I am curious about how much time you spend handing out advice. I see you have been a member only a month and have posted over 700 times. Are you professionally trained in any way or do you just know everything. I am new to forums and not familiar with how it all goes together. Also thanks to chattykathy for your empathy.


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## Nekko

> I am curious about how much time you spend handing out advice. I see you have been a member only a month and have posted over 700 times. Are you professionally trained in any way or do you just know everything. I am new to forums and not familiar with how it all goes together. Also thanks to chattykathy for your empathy.


Oh, I get it, you're not looking for an objective view on the situation, you really are looking for empathy and a pat on the back. Well, then, yes, your husband was wrong, your daughter was wrong, poor you, here have a hug....:scratchhead:


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## turnera

HannahK said:


> I am curious about how much time you spend handing out advice. I see you have been a member only a month and have posted over 700 times. Are you professionally trained in any way or do you just know everything. I am new to forums and not familiar with how it all goes together. Also thanks to chattykathy for your empathy.


 A melodramatic person's first response is always to dis the person who questions their actions.

Are you willing to look at your own actions objectively? Then I'm willing to reconsider my opinion.


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## HannahK

Geeze you people are jaded. Nekko Wafer, I did not address my question about credentials to you and do not need your facetious reply. As for Turnera, I was asking a legitmate question as I do not know much about this forum and I know that sometimes professionals volunteer for things like this and I wondered if you were a licensed marriage counselor. But you took it as a diss. Talk about somebody being sensitive, spoiled and not able to take criticism, I think that description fits you quite well judging from your cryptic reply. 

Apparently this forum and pehaps others too are a place where some folks who post a lot get on a power trip, trying to boost their own egos while they put everyone down. And do not dare disagree with one of the regulars or you will be told how melodramatic, immature, spoiled you are. And if someone not yet in their incrowd states a different opinion or agrees with the person seeking advice the are responded to in such a way as to me made to look ignorant.

This is aljfor me. I think I give another foruma try.


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## scarletblue

Hannah, 

Just on the off chance that you decide to check back here, let me just say this. This is not a forum run by professional therapists. Most of us here are just people offering opinions and advice to those asking for it, or are, ourselves seeking opinions and advice. Take it, leave it, do what you will with it. Sometimes the advice isn't what one is expecting, but that does not necessarily make it bad. 

This is not a club with an "in crowd". I've seen people respectfully disagree with each other here all the time. I'm sorry you are feeling picked on. I'm sure no one is doing so intentionally. It's just people asking you to look at your situation differently than you seem to be.

My piece of advice to you is this: Quit trying to save a buck and get free professional opinions. Pony up the money and seek professional counseling, and try not to get mad at that counselor when you don't like what they tell you.


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## turnera

HannahK said:


> I was asking a legitmate question as I do not know much about this forum and I know that sometimes professionals volunteer for things like this and I wondered if you were a licensed marriage counselor. But you took it as a diss. Talk about somebody being sensitive, spoiled and not able to take criticism, I think that description fits you quite well judging from your cryptic reply.


Legitimate question? You said: 


> or do you just know everything


If you can't even tell when you are trying to manipulate responses, then no one can show it to you. Was that criticism, what you said? I thought it was funny. I was trying to help you see where you are doing this, so that you can ask yourself whether you want to continue to be a tortured soul all your life, or learn some humility and look at what people are recognizing in your posts. Instead, you just hone in on every person who doesn't speak highly of you, and you attack them. What does that do for you?



> Apparently this forum _and pehaps others too_ are a place where some folks who post a lot get on a power trip, trying to boost their own egos while they put everyone down.


So, I gather you've been to other forums and been given the same answer? You're going to search until you find one where people commiserate with you, I take it.

I'll ask again...are you going to ignore what every single poster has asked you to look at? Or are you ready to be honest with yourself and find out why you have such conflict with everyone in your life? It makes no difference to posters here, but you did come for advice. We gave you advice. But you didn't like what you heard, because it centered on what YOU did, instead of what your DAUGHTER (your victim du jour) did. That is YOUR loss, and I imagine the loss of your family, as well, for what you could have learned here and done to make it easier for you all to get along.

fwiw, I am VERY familiar with people with your personality. I dealt with a stepmother who could have been you for most of my life, until my dad died and I never had to deal with her again. Everything was always a big deal, there was always a crisis, it was always someone else's fault, and she was always the victim who was never treated well enough. And plenty of tears, on HER part. Because everyone else got tired of dealing with this week's episode, and just started pretending she wasn't there, and went on with their lives. Sound familiar? 

They ignored you for a reason, hannah. It's your choice to ask yourself why.


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## Freak On a Leash

HannahK said:


> My husband and I have mortgaged our home, cashed in our 401k and taken on extra jobs to try to give our daughter the special wedding she dreams of. Our finances are becoming precarious, with no savings account, no emergency fund, nothing beyond day to day living. Every cent that comes in goes to the wedding. When I suggested a beautiful gown that cost $600 less, my husband said "She will get what she wants:' So we got the $2000 gown. We got the best musicians, the best photographer and caterer. No discussion of saving money was allowed..


 Wow! IMO that is totally screwed up! I'm sorry, but spending all your savings, taking a second mortgage on the house, destroying your retirement fund for a big party is crazy. Did your daughter ask for this? Expect it? Why did you feel you have to do this? To buy your daughter's love, appreciation, her approval? 

I have no problems spending a ton of money on a wedding if you have it, but it seems you don't. This has to be putting a serious hurt on things financially, causing stress and now you are expecting your daughter to be eternally grateful and if she doesn't behave in a manner that you find acceptable you feel you have the right to give her grief. That's a pretty bad situation all around. What kind of child would want and accept their parents going into this kind of debt for one day, albeit a special one? This is just a mind blower. I could never imagine putting myself in this position or my kids accepting it. 

As for your argument with your daughter, what I'd like to know is what started it? What was it about? You just told your daughter she was bossy and she said you were mean? Then your husband didn't want to spend a long ride home running interference? THAT is the problem here? With the sketchy details provided here how are we supposed to determine what is going on? I think there is a lot more behind this than what you've told us. 

Heck, after you've spent all this money I guess you figure that your daughter should never have the right to say anything to you after you've insulted her. But guess what? Money doesn't buy love or respect, but it does make for a spoiled child. It sounds like you got a lot more issues here than what your husband has to say to your daughter. Why should he play referee? I don't blame him for not wanting to get involved. His response alone shows that this is obviously a common situation that he just doesn't want to deal with anymore.

My mother was the type of woman who felt she could buy her children's love and respect. She'd spend a ton of money on me and my sister, but these weren't gifts given freely. She expected that we agree with everything she said and live according to her rules and take on her values. She thought money equaled love and respect. I'm getting the same feeling here. Fact is, parents and children are indeed individuals with their own feelings and values. I'm sorry but too many parents don't realize that respect isn't about total and absolute compliance but caring about and feeling for each other, even when we don't always agree.


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## Nekko

@ Hannah

I really hope you find a forum where you think someone understands you and gives you good advice. Judging from the way you posts i'd say we understood you pretty well though. It's too bad it's not what you want to hear. People will keep telling you, including your daughther, what the problem is...and you'll just feel like everyone's mean, spoiled and dis-respectful. But respect is earned not demanded. When you demand it, people become more reluctant to give it. 

No one did mean to be disrespectful. We were just trying to point out (or at least i was), that you're not really looking for advice, but rather empathy. And as nice as it may feel to get that empathy, it only works for about 1-2 hours or a day till you need to move to another forum for more...because the problem won't go away by itself. And yep, my mom too is just like Freak on a leash describes. Which is why we were never close, and i never had any respect for her. You don't just owe respect, the person either inspires it in you, or not. That's the way life goes.


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## HannahK

To Scarletblue, thank you for explaining how these forums work. Although I spend quite bit of time on the computer, mainly for work and some social networking, I have never participated in a forum. It really is quite interesting to read other people's opinions, even if they do not agree with me and I daresay I must be the odd one out, on this forum, at least. And no I do not "shop" around for forums. This just happened to be the first one I came acorss. So I suppose the forums are a bit like an old fashioned neighborhood coffee klatch or general store where people visited and talked over their problems, etc. Everyone here seems to be somewhat well educated and writes well. And they are offering opinions only, not facts written in stone. I suppose that is where I started off on the wrong foot as I did not realize this was all volunteer "friends."

I do need to read some of the other posts turnera has written to feel out her "tone" with other people. I swear she comes across as confrontational while others on this forum do not, even if they are in disagreement with me. She called me a "tortured soul" which I can assure you is not the case. Nor do I have "victims du jour." Of course if tunera was raised by a wicked stepmother in her home, it is going to color her opinions and that is only human nature. We come out of our childhood wearing many layers of experience, ways of dealing with others, our outlook on life, our feelings of security, the way we love, etc. So for the couple of women on here who did not have good relationships with their mothers, it does show somewhat in what you write. I came from a family of five children and thank God I had a wonderful relationship with both of my parents and still do with all my siblings and their extended families. With that many kids on board, you can bet no one was "spoiled" in my childhood home but we always felt abundantly loved. My daughter and I are actually very close but that does not mean we do not have disagreements. Since I first posted on this forum, we have moved on past that weekend. I had called her to apologize for hurting her feelings and while her phone was ringing my phone alert showed a call coming in from her. We both were calling at the same time to say "I'm sorry." We now have another weekend coming up where we will spend time shopping, going to another shower and just being friends. And by the way for any of you who have the perception that I am a lonely, sit at home and feel sorry for myself woman, it could not be further from the truth. I volunteer for several organizations as well as run my own small home based business. My husband I have a great group of friends that we socialize with. AND my daughters friends are so fond of us and think we are so much fun that when they have parties,things to celebrate or need a shoulder to cry on they invite us and we are the only parents there. One of the girls described me as everyone's second mom. My daughter is very proud of that and will often invite us to gatherings at her house when friends are coming over. Also, she is not at all spoiled, not in the sense that "I must have this" or "It has to be my way." She has always received a ton of love and feels very secure. She is a wonderful, generous, bright, successful and loving young woman who makes me extremely proud. She is also close to her father. They had their own special times as she was growing up when he coached her recreation basketball team. It was one of their many father daughter bonding times. She would be the one ro run errands with him but it would be me who read to her every night. In fact we shared books till she was 13 years old. It was a close and comforting way to end a day. To Freakonaleash, I must tell you that she did not demand a big extravaganza of a wedding and in fact is paying for a portion of it herself. She worked her way through college as well. However, once the wedding preparations got underway, it just seems they got out of hand. When I would have put on the brakes a bit, I was outvoted. My husband was an only child, as is my daughter and he gives her "everything" even if it puts us in the poorhouse, perhaps because it was that way for him with his parents who were not wealthy people either. He will not let on to my daughter how tight things are as he is of the opinion that you do not worry your children (25 years old). It is the same way with health issues. If one of us gets sick (once even hospitalized overnight), he insists on keeping if from her until it is in the past. He disliked that very thing about his father who did not tell us (years ago) that his wife had kidney surgery and almost died. We were never informed of it and only found out accidentally many years later when my husband was helping his mother fill out some health forms. And yet my husband follows the same path. My husband is a wonderful man but not good at all when it comes to money management. In one year, he went through $100,000 his mother gave him from an insurance settlement and I swear we had nothing to show for it. He does not drink, gamble, do drugs or have girlfriends on the side so it is hard to explain how money dribbles through his hands like water but it does. I am concerned about our future, being a Dave Ramsey fan, but I can do only so much with what I earn.

I think I am rambling all over the place here but I am trying to give you all some insight that might help you with your future discussions with people on this forum. My one piece of advice to you all would be not to jump to conclusions about a certain type of personality (tortured soul, prima donna, ...) Be sure you get the full facts before you start handing out advice. You are trying to do a good service for others here so I think this would help prevent you from labeling people and having misconstrued ideas about them. As I think about this too, I am realizing that somehow the focus got switched from my husband to my dauther (see Title) My problem is really not my daughter but my husband who does everything just the way his dad did and that included making all financial decisions, "protecting" his son even when he was grown, married and had a child. He always thought his son could walk on water and that we was always right. Both my father in law and my husband were/are extremely likable people who would do anything for you but saying "No" seems to be a lesson they never learned. And as I remember the early years of my marriage, I can recall the family dynamics where my father in law would "team up" with his son, often leaving my mother in law feeling left out or like she was second string to her son. OMG, I am beginning to feel like I am living their lives all over again. That is scary. It is all too familiar. If nothing else, this forum has made me stop and think and try to "see ahead" and perhaps head things off at the pass. I do have a disadvantage when trying to talk things out with my husband. He was a psychology major and also can also speak so convincingly that he would make you believe that hen eggs are black. But lordy,how I do love that man,my husband of 35years.

You folks keep doing what you are doing but remember that you really are just ordinary people and not trained therapists so choose your words carefully and become an even more viable resource for people in need of advice.


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## Nekko

Hey. Glad to see you came back to post again. I doubt most of us consider ourselves trained therapists. I don't think any of us claim to know the whole situation the poster is in  We just see what you write and base our opinion on that. We also all have our own life experience as daughters, wives, husbands, dads etc...and we can also tell you what we'd personally do or did in that given situation. 

The bottom line is, we're all trying to help to an extent by giving opinions. But our opinions and advice are obviously not facts. It took me a huge amount of time to start posting here because i was afraid of exactly this, that people will think of advice as clear instructions for what to do. This is clearly not the case even if you're going to the best therapist (who at most will tell you that he's just 'holding up a mirror' so that you can see yourself better). Then in hopes that people wouldn't take advice as a sure thing, I realized that some people ocassionally don't understand the other side of the story(what their spouse might be thinking, what they can't see objectively etc). 

As an example if a person comes here stating that they are in a sexless marriage..we can only assume why that happened. It could be because the other spouse is a jerk, out of love, or it could be because our op is being mean/abusive/gained weight/doesn't know how to attract etc. This is why opinions like 'i think your husband is blah blah...' appear, if any of them ring a bell to the poster, then we try to paint a cleared picture of what happened. 

As for what you were asking. Well...what i know for a fact is that a bond between a dad and his girl is huge. Ever since girls are born, most dads tend to feel like it's their highest responsability in life to protect their little girls and make sure no harm of any form comes upon them. Some dads remain with that perception even when their girls are all grown up, because it's hard to change that bond and way of thinking formed over the years. This is very human and very hard to change. 

Now, when the arguement between you two arouse, the way i see things you asked him to pick sides. He had to pick sides between the woman he loves and is married to, that he respects and probably adores, and his tiny little daughter that needs protection and love. How is a person to chose between these two?  He didn't want to upset either of you so he just let you two figure it out for yourselves and continued as if nothing happened. 

Now, in this case it seems my opinion is very different from yours because what your husband did, I personally see as a sign of respect. He didn't jump to protect either of you, he didn't get angry that you were fighting, didn't criticize, rather, he just treated you like two responsible, smart adults that can handle a conflict.


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## HannahK

Thank you Nekko. What you said made perfect senseabout fathers protecting their daughters. I know my own father was that way with his girls although I do not think he would have put up with us saying unpleasant things to our mother. But I do see that my husband was in a very difficult position and probably did make the right choice in letting us "girls" just work it out between us. He knows we love each other to death and I guess he was counting on that. Have a lovely weekend. Oh, and I did not mean to imply that you think of yourselves as professionals. I was actually reiterating what one of you had said, that you were not trained therapists. Have a lovely weekend. I plan to.:smthumbup:


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## Nekko

You have a lovely weekend as well


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## Freak On a Leash

HannahK said:


> To Freakonaleash, I must tell you that she did not demand a big extravaganza of a wedding and in fact is paying for a portion of it herself. She worked her way through college as well. However, once the wedding preparations got underway, it just seems they got out of hand. When I would have put on the brakes a bit, I was outvoted. My husband was an only child, as is my daughter and he gives her "everything" even if it puts us in the poorhouse, perhaps because it was that way for him with his parents who were not wealthy people either. He will not let on to my daughter how tight things are as he is of the opinion that you do not worry your children (25 years old).


True enough, but how is your daughter going to feel at 45 years old when you and/or your husband have to move in with her or borrow money from her because you've exhausted your savings, your retirement fund, have no house, etc? Will she be grateful for that expensive wedding then? Good God, you have to think of yourselves as well. You're not getting any younger! What could be worse then an old, broke parent being a financial burden to a middle aged child who has her own family to raise? Just a thought. 

I can go on and on about my thoughts on giving kids everything they want, even if you can afford to do so or they are only children but that's for another time. Suffice to say, it's not my parenting style at all. To each his own, but I think every kid should hear the world "No" once in awhile because out there in the real world you hear it a lot. To me, parenting is about setting your kids up to live as happy, independent, well adjusted adults, not just indulging and pampering them because they are your children.

The reason people make the assumptions they do here is because they are going on what you post. Your original post was very long on the "Pity Me" aspect and short on details. You've filled in a lot of those details. Thanks for coming back and doing that. It puts a lot of things in perspective. I'm glad you and your daughter are doing well. This should be a happy time for both of you. I wish you all the best of luck and happiness. 

I've been doing this forum bit for well over a decade now. It does take getting used to because people do tend to be opinionated and harsh at times. Think it more as a political debate then a coffee house chat and wear your nomex (fireproof) suit because flamefests (fierce arguments) are common. 

Rambling on (I tend to do it myself  ) is fine. But when you type without "taking a breath" (ie; dividing things into paragraphs) you get what is called a "Wall of Text". When I see a ton of text and nothing dividing up I tend to skip it. If you want your stuff to be read then please make paragraphs. It makes it easier on everyone. 

I'm new here too. Us newbies gotta stick together. Take it easy and keep the faith.


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## turnera

Hannah, glad you came back. Yes, I used strong words to get your attention, but I had no intention of being confrontational. The thing about forums is that you go in with an assumption - YOUR assumption - and sometimes get hit with some 2x4s of differing assumptions.

No, my MIL did not raise me. But I spent enough years watching her ruin lives that I learned to recognize the 'pity me' comments (the silent crying, etc.), the passive aggressive comments ("or do you know everything" and "So for the couple of women on here who did not have good relationships with their mothers, it does show somewhat in what you write") that are so hard for people to call you out on, and the flowery speech (We come out of our childhood wearing many layers of experience, ways of dealing with others, our outlook on life, our feelings of security, the way we love, etc.), and the pronouncements of what good people they are (volunteerism, tons of friends, etc.) whenever anyone questions them. Oh, and she always made a point of giving us 'advice' on how not to do things wrong ("so choose your words carefully and become an even more viable resource for people"), in a very 'beneficent' way, which I guess made her feel like she was better or smarter than us? Who knows? I haven't spoken to her since my father's funeral, actually no one has - we've stayed as far away from her as possible, once we no longer had to see her to see our dad. The reason I even brought it all up was that I didn't want that to happen in your family. You may FEEL like everything's fine and no one has any issues with you, but, they wouldn't tell you, would they?

Do I think that's you? How could I know, from one thread? All I can do is say what I recognize and what I think could be an outcome of that. Whether you want to consider it is up to you. But I do have trouble understanding just what you expected when you asked your husband to take your side over, or reprimand, a 25 year old woman. She's way beyond the age of teaching her, and if you want your husband to show more love to you, then my advice would be to show more love to him first. That's the biggest thing I've learned at forums - to get what you want, give it first. That way, you make them happy and they WANT to make YOU happy, too. So instead of looking for opportunities to get him to prove it to you, sit down and ask him what you do that he doesn't like, and stop doing it. Then ask him what his top needs are, to be happy, and make sure you meet all those needs. When that happens, he should be bending over backwards to make sure YOU are happy. 

fwiw, I had an amazing relationship with my mother, who raised me and who died last month at 78. We were best friends.

Oh, and I read to my daughter every night til she was 13, too! Must be something about that age, lol.


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## HannahK

Tunera, admittedly I am new at this forums business but I find it just silly that you think there is a "style" of writing that does not fit here. (you called it flowery speech). Isn't this, afterall, a place for expressing yourself in whatever words you feel? If my style is different from yours, does that make it not good enough? I think not.

As for your comment on " the pronouncements of what good people they are (volunteerism, tons of friends, etc.) " that was in response to your "tortured soul" remark. I do not believe a tortured soul would be living a full life.


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## turnera

Where did I ever say that a type of writing does not FIT here? I said nothing of the sort. You are so distraught that someone is questioning you that you are bending over backwards to prove to everyone that you are above reproach. Ask yourself why.



> I do not believe a tortured soul would be living a full life.


You keep bringing up that phrase, so I'm going to guess it really gets to you for some reason. Maybe you should look inside and ask yourself why it does.

fwiw, people with toxic shame, extreme self-worth issues, deep past abuse, all kinds of personal issues do lead full lives. In fact, it's probably more important to them than to happily adjusted people to lead 'full lives.'

I don't know you, never will. You come somewhere for advice, you get all kinds. I see a lot of things in your writing that lead me to believe that certain characteristics fit you, that's all. I'm offering up my observations. If you want to ignore them, feel free. If you want to come to a forum and objectively listen to all kinds of opinions and possibly see things that can make your life happier -so that you're not subjected to riding back from a shower drowning yourself in tears for perceived slights - then do so.

What, honestly, are you getting out of this experience by spending all your effort proving to everyone how well-adjusted and wonderful you are? None of us are that perfect, lol.

Look. Obviously you have an issue with me. That's cool. I keep apologizing for upsetting you, but I guess I should just bow out and let people talk to you who agree with you. That seems to be all you're looking for.


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## bgs

HannahK--I may be the only one on your side here. I don't know your whole story but I know mine so I can sympathize with you. I have an 19 year old daughter that has been butting heads with me for about 3 or 4 years. She is totally disrespectful, selfish, self-centered and confrontational--with me. She gets her way totally with her dad so they have a wondeful relationship. I have always been the disciplinarian and he has has been the "wonderful" dad who lets her do whatever she wants with no boundaries. She just finished her freshman year in college but she is home for the summer and it is back to the same old arguments. She is a TOTAL slob. Her room looks like a bomb went off in it every day. I beg, plead and then scream for her to clean her room--to no avail and her dad doesn't say a word or back me up. SO, since HE doesn't care, she doesn't do it! She is in MY home for the summer and leaves cans, dishes, clothes, etc. everywhere--even downstairs and not just in her room. Some people say shut the door--WHY??? She is in our home for the summer so why should I shut the door??? She ignores me and whines to her dad. She just walks out the door when I ask her to clean her room. We fought three weeks ago because I told her to come home and clean her room and she came in and called me a bi#@h!!!! YES, I did tell her dad when he came home (because she called him on the phone and told him her version and left out the name calling part of course) and I DID EXPECT him to back me up but he didn't. So, you people who are giving your wonderful advice, have no idea what you are dealing with her. I have a bratty 19 year old that runs to her dad, who still thinks of her as 10, and calls her just about every day on the phone and says, "Baby, it's daddy" when he calls her. Give me a break! She needs to grow up and learn responsibilities! Yes, he needs to back me up because she doesn't listen to me and hangs on his every word.


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## bgs

HannahK--I forgot to add that when she has called me names and hurt my feelings, I have cried to. But, what people don't realize is that they don't care if they hurt your feelings! It is hard not to be upset and hurt when they say things. My daughter just doesn't care if she hurts my feelings. My husband ignores my crying too because he doesn't want to deal with it. That would mean he would have to confront his precious daughter and he won't do that. He doesn't understand why I let her bother me because he says she is "just immature." So I guess he thinks being immature is an excuse for treating her mother, his wife, like crap. He says she will "outgrow" it and that it's part of being a teenager. My goodness--she is 19! NO CHILD should disrespect their parent at any age. Hannah--I am like you in that I wasn't raised that way. If I had talked to my mother the way my daughter talks to me, my FATHER would have stepped in and said something. Not only that, I would have probably been backhanded and for sure grounded for a very long time! Most kids today do not respect adults and my daughter is acting like her peers. They do the same thing to their mothers. I just don't know how to deal with it. I am on the verge of telling my husband I am leaving until the summer is over and she goes back to school. I am running out of options here. These people don't get it. Oh, I have a 31 year old son and 22 year old daughter who are nothing like this.


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## turnera

Remove her privileges. 

Clean up the room and you can have the computer back.

Do your laundry and you can have the tv back. 

Until you do, they stay in my car. With me. At work.


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## Daisytoo

Hi Hannah, I'm sure this issue w/your husband and daughter must hurt you. Since you have asked for advice, this is mine and it comes from my own experience -- which has, in the past, been filled with mishaps and mayhem caused by my manipulative lack of directness. Try more diligently to address rude remarks/actions made by your daughter more quickly. For instance, when you told your daughter that she was bossy for declaring it was time to move on when your meal wasn't finished, how would it have been different if you had been able to say, "You go ahead, and I'm going to stay and finish my breakfast" Or, "I see that you're ready to go, but I would really like your company while I finish my breakfast". 

In other words, you need to practice being direct, in the moment and w/out the martyred name calling and manipulations w/your husband/daughter. Also, word to the wise, sit next to your husband and not in the back of the bus, so to speak, when traveling w/your daughter. 

If I can learn to be direct, trust me, Anyone can ! Good luck.


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## lisa3girls

Freak On a Leash said:


> Wow! IMO that is totally screwed up! I'm sorry, but spending all your savings, taking a second mortgage on the house, destroying your retirement fund for a big party is crazy. Did your daughter ask for this? Expect it? Why did you feel you have to do this? To buy your daughter's love, appreciation, her approval?
> 
> I have no problems spending a ton of money on a wedding if you have it, but it seems you don't. This has to be putting a serious hurt on things financially, causing stress and now you are expecting your daughter to be eternally grateful and if she doesn't behave in a manner that you find acceptable you feel you have the right to give her grief. That's a pretty bad situation all around. What kind of child would want and accept their parents going into this kind of debt for one day, albeit a special one? This is just a mind blower. I could never imagine putting myself in this position or my kids accepting it.
> 
> As for your argument with your daughter, what I'd like to know is what started it? What was it about? You just told your daughter she was bossy and she said you were mean? Then your husband didn't want to spend a long ride home running interference? THAT is the problem here? With the sketchy details provided here how are we supposed to determine what is going on? I think there is a lot more behind this than what you've told us.
> 
> Heck, after you've spent all this money I guess you figure that your daughter should never have the right to say anything to you after you've insulted her. But guess what? Money doesn't buy love or respect, but it does make for a spoiled child. It sounds like you got a lot more issues here than what your husband has to say to your daughter. Why should he play referee? I don't blame him for not wanting to get involved. His response alone shows that this is obviously a common situation that he just doesn't want to deal with anymore.
> 
> My mother was the type of woman who felt she could buy her children's love and respect. She'd spend a ton of money on me and my sister, but these weren't gifts given freely. She expected that we agree with everything she said and live according to her rules and take on her values. She thought money equaled love and respect. I'm getting the same feeling here. Fact is, parents and children are indeed individuals with their own feelings and values. I'm sorry but too many parents don't realize that respect isn't about total and absolute compliance but caring about and feeling for each other, even when we don't always agree.


I agree with all of this... and I can be pretty indulgent with my daughters-- one has a horse and one is a competitive figure skater, so I am no stranger to shelling out plenty for things they want to pursue, but I don't let them disrespect me. And my one that is almost an adult (17), I expect her to act appreciative or I stop doing (and I have in some instances said no to things).

I was brought up by a mother who thought the world revolved around her feelings and what she bought for us--- huge strings attached and to this day I cannot stand her.


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## Soccerfan73

The OP was from 18 months ago. Probably gone with the wind. 

I did kind of have to chuckle at this thread though reading through it. I think if I were the husband I might cut myself.


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## RandomDude

I can easily see something similar happening in the future with the missus and I, especially when I have a habit of sometimes showing my daughter more love then I do my wife (to her annoyance at times). 

I can just see it happening, my daughter and I driving "mummy" to extensive lengths of frustration heh, playing pranks on her, giving her heart attacks, ganging up on her hehe. She'll be living under the same roof as me and a female version of me! Haha :rofl:

Still, I don't believe in a weak family unit. You are obviously hurt, and this aint fun and games. Your husband should indeed encourage your daughter to talk to you and sort things out at the very least, even if he doesn't want to get involved. Not only does he seem indifferent about the situation but he should also at least care for your well-being and feelings.

EDIT: Oh FFS necro-thread! Grrr!!!


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## Daisytoo

Re: "My husband and I have mortgaged our home, cashed in our 401k and taken on extra jobs to try to give our daughter the special wedding she dreams of. Our finances are becoming precarious, with no savings account, no emergency fund, nothing beyond day to day living. Every cent that comes in goes to the wedding. When I suggested a beautiful gown that cost $600 less, my husband said "She will get what she wants:' So we got the $2000 gown. We got the best musicians, the best photographer and caterer. No discussion of saving money was allowed. Now her daddy remains the prince who will never tell her anyhthing she says or does is wrong. She is a sweet and very loved young woman and is capable of making everyone see that her way is right even when it is not. I am on the other hand am viewed as a selfish prima donna who wants to call all the attention to herself and be babied."

Just read this and I have to note: Each one of you is a Prima Donna vying for first place. Your daughter is not "sweet and loving", she's just as manipulative as you and your husband. God help her new husband. Hope you have some real money stashed away to pay for her divorce and her unhappily ever after wants, wants, wants. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I'd suggested you learn how to be more direct, less martyred and way less manipulative and I offered my own changes in as encouragement. I amend that to include this: seek professional help.


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