# changing need, marriage, where does that leave things?



## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

Its been 7-8 months since I have been on here. Recent events have brought several things to the front of my mind, which i guess is good, but now i am really consciously aware of them.

Two different couples that we know are having some marriage issues. They both have been married in the range of 10-15 years.

10-mile high summary

Couple 1: basically, they work together all the time, and have issues delegating tasks/etc/etc, and that has bled into the personal life, they stopped really talking to each other, the husband became friendly with another woman, the wife found out, and they are going to consuling. And making remarkable progress. Seems like some basic communication issues where one person would say something and the person would interpret it differently and just cause an escaltion.

Couple 2: I'd say they are on the brink of consuling. Seems like similar communication issues, in which they both have different and opposing interests (one is active and outdoorsy, the other not so much, but enjoys it from time to time). the wife here is spending more time at work, probably to avoid husband, and things are just getting worse for them. They argue and maybe things will boil over in a few more months...or not.


So what does this have to do with me??

Well....these couples are really concerning me. I think they have some basic communication issues and both couples generally want to stay together.

My thoughts, that I cannot get out of my mind anymore, dont quite seem like basic communication issues.....And in talking tothe husband of couple #1, i started lightly bringing up some of my thoughts to my wife.....

So here is where we are at:

My wife and I don't fight or argue, pretty rare, extremely rare.
She is attractive as well, we have two kids as well.
My main issues, which I have started to lightly begin to voice, is that i feel really taken for granted. 

I pretty much said that exactly to my wife, biting my tounge a bit, and compared myself to a lamp. You know, the lamp is on, its makes light so everyone can do their things, but you never really think about a lamp.

This started to come into my thoughts maybe about 3-4 years ago, but for the most part I have tried to keep it out of my mind. That is becoming nearly impossible at this point though, along with other thoughts that make me think maybe I really am not a great person.....

I provide pretty much the entire finanical flow for our household (my wife does have a college degree and worked for many years, but she is home with the kids, she works 3-5 hours a week in her profession though). 

We take multiple vacations, new cars, blah, blah, blah...you get the idea on that. We do a date night once a month, sometimes twice. Or go out with other couples as well. We have lawn service, house cleaner who comes once a month and hits all the 'problem' areas, and other things....

I just feel like she doesn't think any of this is 'special'. that sounds awful, but thats the way I feel. I have heard other girlfriends of hers say "gee i wish my husband...." 

I also help out around the house. The wife and kids goto the horse barn riding 4-5 days a week. Usually 3 on the weekday. I get dinner together for them when they are at the horse barn on weeknights. I do other items as well, clean up a bit around the house, dishes/etc.

It just feels like there is no...i dont know the right word...maybe passion? that isn't quite right either....

I feel like all of the things I provide, enable her and the kids to lead a pretty nice life. And I feel like she thinks all of this stuff happens by "magic". I'm not looking for a pat on the back every day....but...when she says something like "if we can't go on a fancy vacation....i probably would just wait and not want to go".

So I have gotten into some of my old hobbies (well one in particular - racing cars) since I have some time and cash flexibility for it now. I am starting to do more car racing events, to get out of the house, see other people in a social environment, where I can get some positive feedback and be around people who think I am doing something well. Wife & kids are also doing more horse shows, and I am kind of encouring that. My kids love it...and I love that they love it....but I also kind of like that it gets my wife away from me for a few days. How bad is that?

When we talked about some of these issues, she had said that she is not the type of person to really fawn over anyone. And I do know that about her. I wouldn't really describe her as an overly "warm" person -- that's not the right words either...but its a best i can describe. She listened to what I had to say though.

A good example, which is one of my turning points, was about 3 years ago. She is very had to surprise...always figures things out if she starts thinking about things. I bought a new car for her, and timed it for a few days before christmas. Made up some dumb excuse about why we both needed to take the current car she had to the dealership. They had the new car ready, stupid red bow on it and all. Granted I had build this up in my mind...but i was expecting something more than "oh, that is nice!" eh......

She did come a few days ago to one of my test days at the race track where I took one my cars. I told her how excited I was to have her there, skipped one of the test run groups so we can goto lunch, and it was nice to have her there. Usually its just me, or me and some of the other folks I have met and become friends with.

Then there is the "s.e.x" ... now I have not brought this up to her....But I am getting tired of it. Tired of always being the initiator for any kind of activity. Its been about 17 years, so I think she could at least initiate a few times? 

Then these things couple with the house and how it is maintained. I have sort of mentioned this...but she gets highly defensive on it. What do I mean here.....i want to say something like this "gee, i know you work 4 hours a week, and go grocery shopping, and get massage, or coffee with your friends....and I don't care if i do the dishes because I want to have a clean coffee cup to drink from....but how come there are piles of laundry in a continuously backed up state all around the house?" Obviously, i would not say that exactly ... still working on how to wrap that in sugar and repeat it to her.

So instead of that, i bought a basket and put my stuff in there. And I'll run my own laundry if i need to.

I don't want to leave my wife or kids or split up our house. But I am becoming highly concerend about my thinking, my growing need for positive feeback or whatever you want to call it, and the fact that I am getting tired of initiating s.e.x with her.

These things don't sound like couple-1 and couple-2 basic communication issues. These sound like personality traits that are becoming more pronunced in myself and maybe her to some degree as well. I know that she has to the wife in couple-1 that "things are great" when discussing our marriage. I would not say the same....well I would if the wife in couple-1 asked...but I dont believe it.

Our kids are 9 years old (twins) and so that gives them about abother 9 years in the house before they really leave? That will go fast. I am sure we will be married in 5 years...10 years? That's a little cloudy.

I started talking a little bit about this to her after talking the couple-1 husband. I told him alot of this in exact the same detail as I am writing this. I didn't think he would tell his wife too much, and even if he did and she told my wife....i kinda didn't care at that point. This is about 3 weeks ago for time reference.

I told the couple-1 husband that I think there is a better than zero chance that at some point in the next 5-10 years...I am going want to take a break from my marriage. So he suggested I start talking to her rather than just leave one day. Which I agree with intellectually....but.....maybe just leaving is the right idea. a long term vacation? there are alot of nice racetracks out west!

so i am not sure what to do. i would say that 90% of things are great in my marriage, but I am focusing more on the things that are not. That I feel like someone else would apprecaite me more? Or that I need appreciation/positive-feedback? And that this is growing? And I am getting tired of initiating sex/kissing with my wife? I have had short 'day-dreams' of leaving....if the kids were not around...maybe I would do it? or maybe we are going to break up some day?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

It's difficult to tell much because it's only one side of the story...

That said, it seems pretty clear that you are not very appreciative of her right now, and that you feel she is not very appreciative of you. In addition, the fact that you two are growing in different directions with different hobbies and that you are having thoughts of splitting up is a huge red flag.

What are your favorite things about her? What are her favorite things about you? Can you focus on that for a while instead of all the problems? In other words, try to find common ground?

The thinking and course you are taking currently, IMO, does not give a lot of optimism to the marriage turning into a happy one.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

It sounds to me like you have a really nice life, and you are wanting your marriage to match the rest of your life. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. What you are describing sounds like it IS a communication problem. Have you actually voiced to her that you feel taken for granted? Have you said that you would like to have a closer relationship? Basically, have you told her what your needs are? Do you have any idea what HER needs are? Its good you have date nights, but I think you need to have more of them, more one on one time. It sounds to me like she has a damn cushy life, I know first hand how expensive horses are, then add the vacations, cleaning service, and her not really working....WOW! I would think I had died and gone to heaven! I understand that you would like her to show some appreciation for you, and I would say you have more than earned that. My suggestion would be to read the book His Needs, Her Needs, and ask that she read it as well. Let her know that your friends' recent couple issues have made your concerns that much more clear, and that you want to address things now before they get too bad. She sounds like a reasonable person and like you two have a fairly decent, if not overly close, relationship, and I think the right approach will reach her.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> It sounds to me like you have a really nice life, and you are wanting your marriage to match the rest of your life. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. What you are describing sounds like it IS a communication problem. Have you actually voiced to her that you feel taken for granted? Have you said that you would like to have a closer relationship? Basically, have you told her what your needs are? Do you have any idea what HER needs are? Its good you have date nights, but I think you need to have more of them, more one on one time. It sounds to me like she has a damn cushy life, I know first hand how expensive horses are, then add the vacations, cleaning service, and her not really working....WOW! I would think I had died and gone to heaven! I understand that you would like her to show some appreciation for you, and I would say you have more than earned that. My suggestion would be to read the book His Needs, Her Needs, and ask that she read it as well. Let her know that your friends' recent couple issues have made your concerns that much more clear, and that you want to address things now before they get too bad. She sounds like a reasonable person and like you two have a fairly decent, if not overly close, relationship, and I think the right approach will reach her.


:iagree:

Also check out the Five Love Languages if you have not already done so.

Good luck


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I've had the big house, fancy job, boats, an airplane, sports cars, motorcycles, model airplanes, guns (not a hunter, just for sport), fifth wheel and all that goes along with material possessions. 

None of it made me happy; it was all very distracting from my real life. I stayed in a bad marriage 20 years being distracted. 

Since shucking all that after the divorce, although I still have a great job, my heart feels more full and my life has higher intrinsic quality than it ever did with all that stuff. 

Seems to me you two need to focus on each other, not stuff. I can't buy my present (and last) wife "things" to make her happy. I do special little things just for her, even if it's as mundane as washing the dishes. She stays at home by our planned arrangement (the 23 yo daughter staying with us doesn't really count as needing a Mom at home), and it works for us. The more time you can spend on each other, the more you will miss each other when one or the other is gone. 

Any chance you could get into horses (I had one of those too)? She came to your track; did you go to the barn with her?

takes 2


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Then there is the "s.e.x" ... now I have not brought this up to her....But I am getting tired of it. Tired of always being the initiator for any kind of activity. Its been about 17 years, so I think she could at least initiate a few times?"


It always amazes me that a couple could go this long without actually discussing sex.

fordracing...are you under the assumption that she can read your mind?

What do you fear will happen if you actually discuss your married sex life with your wife, like adults?


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

hi...thanks for the replies.

i am not sure really how to interpret any of this. or if i am making things worse in my mind just be being pre-occupied with all of this.

i am not knocking material stuff....i like that stuff too, i have no ground to stand on there 

and discussing sex? well.....we did a while ago. bought a few little items online to play a bit....and she really was never into them. these ranged from a deck of cards with "action items" on them (how harmless is that - we used them twice) to a sex-swing  never used....she liked the idea i guess, but she said she could never use it and would lose the mood trying to get into it. she is pretty physically fit, i dont think it would take that much effort? 

last night...i again did my role as initiator. and i wanted to play a little bit...specifically with oral on her. this is something we never do...tried a few times....she says its not her thing. at any rate, i tried again a little bit (maybe 20-30seconds) ... she pulled completed away, told me to stop, clammed up...and well...that was kind of mood killer all the way around. so i was not really interested in a re-try last night. basically wanted to go shrink into a corner  

and i goto the barn, every now and then. i was at the horse show they went to last weekend. i came for two days, about 4-5 hours a day. saw the kids, got drinks for people, helped out on some of the cleanup on sunday. rarely see any dad's at these things! 

what do i fear will happen? that she will get defensive, and we will start to have confrontations in front of our kids. i grew up in that environment and do not want it. maybe we are a track to develop seperate lives and then eventually fall apart when the kids leave for school? i dont think i want to accept that path yet either....or maybe i just focusing on crap that doesnt matter? i am sure at some point...a solution will present itself.


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

maybe i was wrong to even attempt that on her? if she is not into it...she is not into it...i can't really fault her on that? so maybe it was all my fault? who knows......


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I have had a couple lovers who weren't into receiving oral sex. There was abuse in their past that related to it. I absolutely LOVE to go down on my woman, but if it triggers bad memories of past abuse, then it's selfish of me to put her in that situation.


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## CrystalPalace (Apr 7, 2011)

You might want to check out No More Mr Nice Guy if you haven't already.

The reason I recommend this is:

With the exception of your hobby, which is excellent BTW, you seem to put them before yourself with some vague expectation of something in return.

Your voice is very passive, almost victim-like, throughout your entire post. It sounds like your marriage is happening to you.

You don't once say "I want.." except from the point of view of what you are passively wishing she'll give you.

You're a good looking guy with money who races cars and you don't think there are a thousand women out there who would love to rip your clothes off? That should be your wife. And it's okay to say "I will be married to a women who rips my clothes off every once in a while."

Best regards,


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## MyrnaLoy (Apr 23, 2013)

I think you should examine your need to be appreciated all the time. Your life sounds lovely, your wife doesn't seem to be complaining about anything and yet you still feel unfulfilled. I think spouses should show gratitude for the work each one puts into the family-- an occasional comment or so, but your wife shouldn't have to thank you for her lifestyle, any more than you should have to thank her for what she does with the kids or at home. She doesn't seem to *not* appreciate it-- she's not demeaning you or anything. If the laundry situation bothers you, bring it up, but not all passive-aggressively like you suggested. Just say that you noticed the laundry was backing up, can you help her figure out a way to keep it on a schedule. Maybe your kids could pitch in since they are getting older. 

You just kind of seem bored and looking for a reason to be dissatisfied with your wife. The sex stuff is normal sex complaints. It seems like she never initiated so it might not be something she's willing to change. However it seems she does have sex with you-- maybe you could figure out a compromise where you're both fulfilled-- like you half initiate and then she becomes more aggressive once you give her a signal. 

All of this seems like petty stuff to consider separating over-- it seems more like a mid-life crisis than an actual marriage issue. But my marriage is really new, so I'm no expert. 

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MyrnaLoy said:


> I think you should examine your need to be appreciated all the time. Your life sounds lovely, your wife doesn't seem to be complaining about anything and yet you still feel unfulfilled. I think spouses should show gratitude for the work each one puts into the family-- an occasional comment or so, but your wife shouldn't have to thank you for her lifestyle, any more than you should have to thank her for what she does with the kids or at home. She doesn't seem to *not* appreciate it-- she's not demeaning you or anything. If the laundry situation bothers you, bring it up, but not all passive-aggressively like you suggested. Just say that you noticed the laundry was backing up, can you help her figure out a way to keep it on a schedule. Maybe your kids could pitch in since they are getting older.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I must disagree with this...YES, she SHOULD thank him for their lifestyle, and for working for the family! And YES, he SHOULD thank her for what she does with the home and the children! Being married does not make these things automatic, and being unappreciated builds resentment. You should NEVER assume that your spouse is automatically thankful for your contributions, and vise versa. You would thank a stranger, would you not??


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

well...that is part of my delima

1. maybe this is all just petty b/s..i think i said 90% of things are good

2. or maybe....its not...if its how i am feeling...and now i am aware of this on a concious level because i talked to my buddy about his issues with his wife....maybe it is real?

I like to think I tell her i appreciate certain things. i certainly don't do it every day....i dont want to paint some overly rosy picture of myself here either. But i make it a point when the laundry is moving along, to tell her i love it or somehow make it a point. Told her she made a nice dinner last night. 

That's what I am starting to wonder? Maybe I tell her this stuff too much and its no big deal to her? 

I am definately a "Type-a" person, probably became more that way after 25. I'm 38 now. I run my own company...have a hobby where second guessing yourself might bite you in a hurry :O

maybe i am "bored" as one suggested? 

then she will say things sometimes like telling me "what happened in her day". for example, about 3 weeks ago....she was dressing for work. She looked really nice - wasn't anything fancy, just khakis and a dressy short, nice shoes. I told her in the morning that she looked really good! She said thanks and obviously seemed to like that compliment. I meet her for lunch...she tells me that some guy was looking her up and down when she went to the grocery store after lunch. This is something that she has told me on a number of occasions. Or she will go running and tell me that she got 3 "honks" from people driving by...checking her out. She had two guys ask her out in a parking lot...one at petsmart...one at grocery store. This was probably 3-4 years ago. I usually make some kind of joke/remark like i am going to go find the guys and they can swim in the lake with concrete shoes. But I did tell her the other week....I don't have women hitting on me when I go out or asking me out in parking lots. And usually this happens when she out looking cute driving the car i bought her 

But again, this has only happened maybe 6 or 8 times. Over a 5 year span. So maybe its just crap that I am making up in my head?

I'm not planning to end my marriage over this stuff, at least not now. We have two kids at home and the last thing I would want to do is mess them up like that. Plus visitation would mess up my racing schedule 

Makes me wonder about the next 5-10 years. When talking with my friend about his marriage, i think i told him (may have written this above) that there is at least a non-zero chance that I just might take a break for the marriage someday in the future? 

I'd dont like saying that. I dont like saying that i'm looking for a compliment or however poorly worded that is........maybe i do need to examine that more?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You may not like saying it, but it is obviously an emotional need of yours. The 5 Love Languages is another book you should check out. Yours is listed here:

Physical Touch - this person feels love when others touch them lovingly.
Acts of Service - this person feels love when others help them out or serve them.
Words of Affirmation - this person feels love when others verbally approve or affirm them.
Quality Time - this person feels love when others spend time with them.
Gifts - this person feels love when others give them thoughtful things. 

And also HERE, from His Needs, Her Needs:

His Needs Her Needs List: Men's Needs

1. Sexual Fulfilment
2. Recreational Companionship
3. An Attractive Spouse
4. Domestic Support
5. Admiration

So stop feeling like you are wrong for having these needs and feelings!


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

hi...welll...its been about 10-12 days here. 

my wife and i did talk....spent about 3 hours, in which i mentioned some of these issues.....this happened a few days after one night when we went to bed.

we were in bed....after about 15 minutes...i figured "ok...i will start...why not" (she clearly wasn't going to....i was actually going to wait her out and see if should come closer or such and such). at any rate....i made another mistake that night. she is not really into any form of oral sex at all....i never bring up the idea of her giving....i would just like if she would recieve once in a blue moon. so i tried a little, and that was a complete crash and burn, total humuliation. so i wasn't going to try to restart things....i went down stairs because i basically just wanted to get away. that was the first time i left the room like that. she has spent the night in the guest room a few times over the years for various reasons.

anyway....she was upset that i left the room. and the next day we really didnt talk to much. the 3rd day we started talking more...and i figured i would bring up some of these issues.

i think it helped...or i at least felt better. but it also made me realize that there is not alot of common ground there. she has made more an effort though to be compilimentary towards me...which is very nice and i thank her for that. the sex things....that's just the way it is. she doesnt want to initiate, says that is how she feels that i am interested in her because I initiate. and i don't want to initate any more because i am tired of always doing it. so that's great - eh?

during this conversation....as i way to get my point across as an example. i picked on her parents to illustrate my point. about 4 years ago (my idea) we gifted her parents house cleaning services. her mom has alot of degenerative back issues. anyway, about every 4-5 weeks, they get their house cleaned and i get a bill for $80. well, i get a bill every 2-3 months for the total $160-$240. this has been going on about four years. I told her...every time i write this check, i hate it, i want to cancel it. i never get a thank you from them on this, its like its f%&#ing magic that these people just show up and clean their house. And then i feel like a **** because I want to cancel it because I never get a thank you....

i dont think we can go on any more date nights and such. we go out once or twice a month, and i am not sure i can do any more. i find myself actually coming up with a bullet-list in my head of things to talk about before the date night! just to keep conversations going and such....how bad is that?

so this weekend, they went to virigina for weekend horse show. i am here at home. went out friday and saw a few friends...saturday i have been doing some of my projects, sunday i have a little car event i am going to go do. but i've been thinking alot about this stuff....i even wrote a little "im leaving you letter"...more as a mental excercise. it was on my computer, and has been deleted, i never intended to use it. 

we have two kids, 9 year old twins. i can't mess them up like that. my parents had a highly volatile relationship and divorce..so i would rather not even venture down that road at all.

but at the same time....i almost think i am falling out of love with my wife. i was reading some of my older posts on here (only a few of them) and i've been feeling this way for at least the last year. 

so that list....that 3xnocharm put up...that didn't help 

His Needs Her Needs List: Men's Needs

1. Sexual Fulfilment --> i'd say 50%?

2. Recreational Companionship --> well...we go for walks together. other than that, we pretty much have seperate interests. although after my talk with her...she is more interested in coming to the track when i go racing, so that is very nice! i do go when she runs a 1/2 marathon, marathon, or 5k. 

3. An Attractive Spouse. i'd say 100%...she is good looking

4. Domestic Support. i'd say 50%? she does maintain the house and take care of the kids. but....for the free time she has...i don't know. maybe she just has poor time management skills 

5. Admiration - i'd say 10%. this is probably my main crux. i just think she takes everything as "matter of fact". but she did say she would work on that after my talk with her.

so i don't know....what will happen. do i want to be married anymore? i don't know. one of my fears is that we end up like her parents. married 40+ years, and they don't really go or do anything. what in the world do they have to talk about together?

i was talking to a friend the other night...saying something like...i really have to be married for another 10,20,30 years or 50 years? i don't think i fully appreciated that until recently.... i had told a male friend of mine a few months ago (over some drinks) that the idea of being married 30 or 50 more years made me feel sick.

maybe whats been happening is that i've been slowly falling out of love with my wife over the last 2-3 years?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As my counsellor said to me... When it comes to resentments and frustrations, you have two choices. You can deal with them now, or deal with them later, with interest. And brother, you're accumulating interest at a loan shark level. I don't know what your solution is, but I don't know that "hanging in there" will last you for the rest of your life.

C


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## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

PBear said:


> As my counsellor said to me... When it comes to resentments and frustrations, you have two choices. You can deal with them now, or deal with them later, with interest. And brother, you're accumulating interest at a loan shark level. I don't know what your solution is, but I don't know that "hanging in there" will last you for the rest of your life.
> 
> C


so that made me laugh! hahah - yeah.....i hear what you are saying.


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