# my story of a cheating wife



## patientone

I have been on these boards lurking for a few months...namely Iamnotalone and his thread as (like many) sounds eerily like my life right now. I am learning TONS these months and am on my way to becoming an extremely better person, father and husband.

My wife and I have been together for 12 years (married for 7) and all in all, it has been an ideal marriage. 3.5 months ago, I found out that she wasn't happy (she stopped wearing her wedding ring on a trip she took with her sister and I saw the pics). I started researching marriage and two days later, found that I had been guilty of not meeting all of her needs. I presented my findings to her and she became FURIOUS. For three weeks. Slept in the guest room, no physical touches, etc. etc. The next week, her stories began not matching up so I started snooping.....and surprise surprise she has been having an affair, WITH OUR FRIEND. And not sure when the emotional affair began, but the physical affair was right on that week that she told me she wasn't happy.

Now, I am not too proud or selfish to say I did not have faults in this marriage. I was overly critical, was harsh with my words during arguments and was not 'comforting' when she vented to me - I wanted to 'fix' the issues instead of supporting her and just listening. Although not an excuse, I had no idea of what I was doing and was probably too hard headed to listen if one would have told me.

We have a 2.5 year old daughter together and are still living under the same roof. She filed for Divorce back in May, but nothing has been done since. No affection, no change of heart from her, etc. etc.

I thought they stopped talking when her attorney advised her to back in May ... and she promised me they were not on numerous occasions. But, two weeks ago, I did more snooping and saw that they had still been in phone contact (he lives three hours away so no physical contact as far as I know). She lied to me over and over...and finally came clean.

OM is in town this weekend...and she wanted to go watch him race (we all used to race together). And bring our daughter.
I made a demand (not part of the plan, but I had no other option I think) that I could not force her not to go, but if she did, I was going with her. We had an hour 'discussion' last night and she finally said 'fine, I'm not going then.' 

I know (I think) that I was correct in not having my daughter exposed (she says she would not have seen him) and establishing a proper boundary in our marriage. Today, she is just moping around the house looking sad and quiet (basically, on par for the course for the past 3.5 months).

Did I do the right thing? 
She offered a 'great' deal for divorce as well (financially). Would be great if I wanted a divorce. But I want a marriage. 

Need more info? I'm going to counseling twice per week. She has gone twice TOTAL since this started. She is in a DEEP FOG and I can see it...her comments and actions are pure textbook. I want nothing else than for us to be able to take this, put it behind us and start learning each other again for a new lease on our marriage.


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## Wisp

Did I do the right thing? 
O yes -- never doubt it. You are not there to make her life comfortable while she is in an EA

Do her family and friends know,, Have you exposed to all. She seems too comfortable when the divorce option came up sounds like she has not stopped fantasising.

Has she agreed to not contact him, if so step up the pressure on his side of the family as well as hers.. Don't read only take action. EXPOSE..


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## patientone

Oh yes, I exposed 3.5 months ago when I found out. Her family knows as well. She has no intention of doing a no contact letter, etc. She 'claims' that they were not talking the whole time. When I busted her on that two weeks ago, she 'claims' that they were 'down and out' and the last conversation was 'ok, I'll let you go then.' I want, so bad, to believe it. But I cannot. Her WANTING to go see the 'car' at the races this weekend proves that she is still attached (to him, the idea of him, something).

I will plan on getting a letter sent to him from my attorney next week...threatening to subpoena phone, emails, etc...bringing him in for questions, etc...all stuff to make him uncomfortable. That is the best idea I have received.

She IS very comfortable with the subject of divorce. Not sure why. Of course, she is rewriting history with her unhappiness to me. I am sure she was unhappy at times and I was a jerk at times...I can and have admitted that. However, no indication was given that a divorce was coming by her words or actions. We had plans for the future, had normal husband and wife days until the time of the physical affair...then EVERYTHING changed (no affection, no touching, separate beds, no wedding ring, the lies started and she became not happy - period). She has not smiled much the entire time.

We did have communication issues obviously. But right now, she is not interested in saving the marriage at all. And I am not interested in enabling the divorce so I am not doing anything to help that part.

I am an emotional roller coaster but trying to hold my head high. Not able to do it every day, but most days yes.


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## 63Vino

Tell him what he's won Johnny!!!
Take the deal.


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## Initfortheduration

Is she a stay at home mom? You need to separate finances.


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## 2Daughters

One thing you fail to realize is that this isn't about the last 3,4 or even 6 months ago, this has been festering in her for probably a few years, maybe more, by the time it reaches this stage, the history behind is tough to overcome, think about it, she reached a point where she willingly gave herself to someone else, dump her, make it as tough as possible for her without looking back.


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## patientone

I do agree. Signs show that she was not totally happy the entire time. And I do accept blame for my actions and words. However, she 'allowed' the behavior to continue....by not speaking up (in a language that I understood that would show me there was a genuine problem). Not that that fact changes where we are now.

An unhappy wife in the midst of a fantasy affair (or not) that has committed herself to 'getting out' of this marriage and family. 

Tough situation - textbook or not. There are so many 'theories' but the basic fact is that she is going to do what she wants and no one can change that fact. That is difficult because no matter what sort of model husband I have become, at this time, it may be falling on deaf ears. 

And to me, that is really sad. Because I feel this marriage is and could be a great one still.


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## 63Vino

patientone said:


> And to me, that is really sad. Because I feel this marriage is and could be a great one still.


This only works if you BOTH feel that way no? Its easy to get married as you both are "in love" and all is good. Whenever people separate its typically because their feeling dont "match" anymore. That will always hurt one more than the other. Dont be afraid of that.


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## OhGeesh

2Daughters said:


> One thing you fail to realize is that this isn't about the last 3,4 or even 6 months ago, this has been festering in her for probably a few years, maybe more, by the time it reaches this stage, the history behind is tough to overcome, think about it, she reached a point where she willingly gave herself to someone else, dump her, make it as tough as possible for her without looking back.


Agree with this!


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## patientone

What are thoughts on getting lawyer to send OM a letter--threatening to subpoena phone, email records, bringing him to questioning, etc etc.? Seems like a harmless way to make my wife more trouble and having him move on to easier prey. Thoughts?


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## the guy

I'd do it, enless your lawyer disaggrees. 

If you think it will make you feel better send him a thank you note, with regards to the appreciation you have for taking this troubled person off your hands. and allowing you to move on to better/healther people.
This will surly be shown to your wife there by troubling her deeper then what you propose.
This is spiteful so be careful.


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## Brewster 59

the guy said:


> I'd do it, enless your lawyer disaggrees.
> 
> If you think it will make you feel better send him a thank you note, with regards to the appreciation you have for taking this troubled person off your hands. and allowing you to move on to better/healther people.
> This will surly be shown to your wife there by troubling her deeper then what you propose.
> This is spiteful so be careful.


:rofl::rofl::lol::smthumbup: Now that is hella funny, I dont think it will help with reconcillation but it is funny. I guess the op has read the info involving affairs, so he knows not to plead, or beg her to stay.


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## patientone

My counselor had a 'bad' feeling about the letter idea. Seems it would be seen as 'controlling' by my wife (who does not want to be controlled right now). 

Ah well, there are other hurdles for her before a divorce can be had.


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## the guy

p1,
your right she, and we all have hurdles when it come to infidelity. I'm glad u talked to a pro. 
Keep your chin up and good luck.


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## redleaves

I noted a nice repost somewhere on these boards ....

When another man steals your wife, there's no greater revenge than letting him keep her.

Neat & concise.


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## patientone

Well, today was eventful. She was 'cleaning' up the closet while I was playing with baby this afternoon. She has been 'moving' things around, etc. lately - taking a few knobs and changing them out, etc....in preparation for a new place maybe? So, I asked her if she was packing and she said no, just cleaning. I asked her if there was anything I needed to know and she said no.

She later came to baby's room and I asked if she had made an offer on a house yet? She said no. She started talking about divorce details, etc.......I asked her about all possible options that have not been taken in saving this marriage - that research should be done. Steve Harley told me the other day the 'ideal scenario' would be for my wife to be in love with the father of her child - me. So, the other day, I asked my wife that and she agreed it would be ideal - IF SHE WANTED THAT. She brought that up again this afternoon and did her classic 'line' of I'm done, finished, checked out. I very calmly told her that if she was checked out, that she should just leave then. It would be much easier for all. If that is what she wanted and that made her happy, then go and the sooner, the better. I told her it hurt me too bad to be living with someone that obviously did not want to be there. That it hurt that she doesn't even come out to say hello or goodnight when I come home. That she rarely says thank you for anything I do. That I am not being respected as a human, much less as a husband and it hurt. Her not wearing her ring anymore, not showing 'married' on her FB page (I HATE FB BTW), not doing anything together..all not the marriage or life I wanted.

She said 'enjoy dinner, I'm leaving' to which I told her I would see her later. She quickly changed her mind saying she did not want to leave our daughter. She then sat down and I talked some more, all calmly and without any disrespectful comments or tone.

I told her the door would be open for a while if she wanted to return (she said 'for a while?' to which I answered that I could not wait forever). She asked if I was getting a power trip by asking her to leave. I told her it would be the saddest day of my life if she did leave, but I was still in love with my wife that I knew before and the wife that I recognize standing in front of me, but not what she has become in the past four or so months. I told her I was not controlling her, but suggested that she 'rent' so that if she was ready to come back into the marriage and commit to making some changes together, it would be much easier.

I was very calm and loving the entire time and conversation. Told her that I recently, I had loved her regardless of how she treated me as that is correct living according to the Bible which was the way I lived now. Which is why she always has a cup of coffee ready in the morning, money, bills paid, a roof, dinner,etc....that I was loving her unconditionally of the way she was treating me. That I knew only God and herself could change her as I was powerless. Told her I understood why she may have wanted to leave me before, but did not understand what she was leaving now (I have changed tremendously).

She actually asked about my workout before I left - she has not asked about anything in weeks. Will see if she comes out to say goodnight later.

Not sure what I expect, but I feel comfortable. Honestly, at this point, she is already 'not there' and divorce papers are filed..so what is the worst that could happen from here? The worst is already here. Will keep updates coming.


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## patientone

Well, here is the new stuff. No changes in her behavior besides that she talks less. She is moving soon...her mom purchased a rental house and she will be moving in there. Her mom thinks that 'time apart' will be good...give us both time to heal. Wife has given her lawyer a 'settlement' for divorce. I received it, just ignoring it for now. I want her to move and experience reality. Her mom is not going to pay for anything.....wife will have to pay all and on her part time job, just not going to be comfortable or even possible. 

I am on a constant roller coaster. Spend lots of time with my daughter which I love. However, it is tough to see my wife behaving in such a distant different way of the woman I fell in love with. I am convinced that OM is still in the picture and they are probably still talking....at least if she moves, they won't do it from 'our' house. OM lives three hours away so visits will be seldom, but still enough to make me sick.

Just sit and wait..as she moves...or is it Plan B? I believe it is...we won't need to talk - I have already made it clear that all finances will be separate the day she moves (I will cancel car insurance on the vehicle she wants to drive and ask for our joint credit card back - that is all we share). From that moment until she wants to work on our marriage, she can live on her own since this is what she wants.

Am I doing correctly? Advice, tips?


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## jessi

Patientone, 
Hi there and so sorry for what is happening in your life.
You are handling this very well, you are loving and accepting of her choices, this is what you want, her to make the choices based on her feelings.....Let her feel what a life with the Om is going to be like.......right now you have been filling some of her needs by taking care of her financially, she will feel it when you stop, she will quickly see that the OM will not put the kind of effort into her that she thinks he will.......It will be a lot of work to carry on a long distance relationship, she will be disappointed in him in no time......
Just be the man that she regrets leaving........be calm and loving.....work on yourself in the meantime......go out with friends , work out.........spend time with your daughter.......show her life will go on for you........(((hugs)))


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## OhGeesh

patientone said:


> Told her I understood why she may have wanted to leave me before, but did not understand what she was leaving now (I have changed tremendously).


What does this mean? Good post Jessi!


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## patientone

OhGeesh said:


> What does this mean? Good post Jessi!


Agree..Good post Jessi. Thank you for taking the time.

That what I wrote meant that I 'understood' that I was not the perfect husband, that I can now see the flaws that I had that bothered her. However, those things were gone now - which is what she wanted...why is she still leaving? My counselor and I talked about that one together..... For example, if I was critical before (which I was) and that bothered her - now, I am not so why not stay and work on marriage? Affair is the answer in my opinion...fog, whatever, she is emotionally charged to him now. Unless he goes away from the picture, I feel I have no chance.


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## Affaircare

Oh patientone, this is relatively easy. 

Right now the OM only has positive contact with her (via email, FB or the phone) in which he only adds Love Kindlers to make her flame blaze. You, on the other hand, even though you may have vastly improved, still have some of the Love Extinguishers of "real life" like bills, a mortgage, caring for a child, responsibilities. So right this moment if she compares OM (who's only contact is all lovey-dovey and understanding...) and you (who brings up "how will you pay for this or care for our daughter) it doesn't fit with her happy little Affairland Fantasy. You have the negatives of the past and some current actions or questions that bring her back to REALITY and she doesn't like that! 

Plus, let me ask you this. If I stabbed you a little bit every day for five years, and finally you said, "That's it I'm leaving!" and I said, "Okay I'll stop stabbing you" and even actually stopped stabbing you...would that make you want to be with me or even like me? No! Imagine a post (like a phone pole), and every time you were critical of her you drove a nail into the post. Okay, now you get it and you stop driving nails in...is it still covered in nails? Yep! So you get it even more and take the time to pull the nails out that took you years to put in. The nails are gone but are there still HOLES where the nails were? 

The fact is that just because you stop driving nails into her doesn't mean she'll suddenly be "in love" again. She still has nails in her and damage was done. Now the trick will be to not only pull the nails out (and that will take TIME and consistency) but also to do what you can do to understand the damage and repair if you can.


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## AZMOMOFTWO

It sounds to me like your wife wants her cake and eat it too and she's playing mind games because it makes HER feel better. You cannot change her, she will change when and if she is ready. So you focus on you. Your are a father, and it sounds like you are a devoted one. So do things for your child and build that relationship. Do things for you. Make yourself a better person, the kind of man any woman would want to be married to, and people will think her the fool for losing you. If she has a change of heart and you still have the door open, only then can you reconcile. In the meantime, you are starting a life without her because she has given you no choice. So go down that road and be a better person. I'm not saying any of this is your fault and you have to be a better person so she will love you. I'm saying at the end of the day, you win if you become a better person and you will be able to move on without her if necessary. 

I did not know what else to do when I found out my husband was having an affair. I was done, not staying married to him. But I was a mess and I wondered, who would want me with all this baggage and I feel horrible about myself..affairs do that, I'd always had self-esteem but he destroyed it. So I set about making me happier. Becoming a better person, a better mother and it helped, I no longer felt depressed and powerless. Actually without meaning to, that's what brought him back but now it was me saying to him you need to become a better person, I didn't want to be married to that man anymore..and I meant it. He too has become a better person today, better husband, better friend, better father. But HE decided to change, I could not change him. To this day, I am so proud of me for not allowing him to destroy me, I now know I have inner strength and I am worth being treated better. You are too. 

So don't let her play games, if she wants a divorce then move out your not there to serve her. Make a reasonable arrangement with your child and she needs to move on. You move on too. If she changes, then perhaps there is a chance but don't let her think she can run all over you. 

Funny thing is, once I shut the door on my husband he suddenly had no affection for the OW and wanted nothing more than to fix our marriage. He admits to thinking he had all the time in the world to make that decision that I'd be there waiting. Don't be, you are worth more than that!


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## patientone

Thank youi for posting on my situation and your points are well taken. I appreciate everyone's time.

So, tonight, she wants to go over our divorce agreement. 50/50 custody and a fair property settlement are what she is offering....nothing huge to discuss. However, she wants the divorce. She is afraid, as she has been for the past 4 months, that I am going to 'pull something' evil and drag it out, run her through the mud, make it all about money, try to get custody...etc...all stuff that I am not interested in doing.

So, here is my question. I know that 'fighting' will not do anything. If I just give her the divorce she wants (basically since it is a fair deal for me), is that the best option?

Reconciliation can happen later....if she wants it (and I want it at that time as well). But right now, giving her what she wants will make her feel in control and then show her all her claims to what I was 'going to do' were unjustified. And then reality can start hitting and she can see what she had with me (if she wants to) although I firmly believe that she will be 'dating' the three-hour away OM very soon. 

So conflicting for me. Give what she wants - and leaving it to that. Feels like I am giving up, but really, there is nothing else I can do is there? As many have said, I cannot change her - only she can do that. So my choices are to continue learning, growing as a person, living my life, spending lots of quality time with my daughter and that is all...sad sad sad....but that is reality for me right now huh?

And she is probably moving on Thursday (3 days away) BTW.


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## Initfortheduration

It sounds like you have the right perspective. Give her the divorce. Then allow her to see the reality she has created.


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## patientone

Affaircare...not sure I understood your post all the way.. Yes, I left 'holes' with nails...I understand that. What are you saying? It may heal, it may not? And here is my huge dilemma inside...she blew my 'holes' out of the water by having an affair...so I am hurt as well. But I am willing to forgive and move on to a stronger marriage...she is not. Why the difference? Is it her 'fog' that is not having her see anything but 'out?'

And another question, once she moves out this week;

1. Do I have her pay her own auto insurance right away? Cancel policy and have her get her own?

2. Get our joint credit card back from her....and have her start paying her own way (gas, groceries, etc)?

3. Do I give her 'child support' already - as a good gesture....since regardless, it will take weeks for a divorce to go through anyway.

4. If she asks, or do I offer, to help her move anything?

5. And then later, as we start 'exchanging' our daughter during the day, do I just treat her as a business...hello, goodbye, see you later......not cold, just not inquisitive, etc.

This really is sad for me..really sad. Never thought my marriage would come to this. Thanks all for kind words and advice.


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## Twistedheart

You make everything her own and your own. You talk to her like a neighbor, or a business partner, not as a lover. Slap her in the face with reality (gawd please not with anything else!). It sounds as if you have been making this too easy for her. Your immediate objective as soon as you found out should have been to stop supporting her if she does not part ways with her affair.

I will try to answer your questions as if it was me handling my own situation back in May. I busted my wife's 5 month PA wide open. I did have a lawyer on stand by, as did she, and when she felt like she wanted to make any kind of demand out of me, I would give him a call. She wanted me kicked out of the house and all that jazz. But she and her affair clan did not actually realize that they were waking a sleeping giant. 

1. Hell no you don't pay her insurance. If the car is in your name you get the keys back.
2. That joint account should have been cancelled right away. Get everything new and in your name. Share nothing.
3. Are you going to help with your child as much as she is? Then hell no you don't pay her nothing until the law says you have to, if that happens. She may be biting off more than she can chew. What makes her a more fit parent than you?
4. Come on man you know the answer to this.
5. Business acquaintance is more than adequate.

You have to be stronger than you appear to be showing in your posts. You have to live for you and your kids right now. What she does from here on out (as far as a lover) you can not worry about again, ever. 

It sounds like you are more than willing to work on the marriage. You start throwing the harshness of those listed realities in her face and you will almost immediately begin to see results. Let her know what c-o-l-d means. As cold as it sounds, you are only looking out for yourself, no harm done.

I became a different person when I found out about my wife's PA. I fought. I fought for my kids, I fought for myself and unknowlingly I fought for her. I was preparing to go live another life with or without her and she knew it. When things all of a sudden didn't go her way, her eyes began to open again. 

Exactly 7 days after I busted her out, that fog began to lift. We are beginning month 4 after I buster her. We are stronger in every way now and are trying to put it all behind us. It isn't easy. It's way harder for me to put it behind but I don't think I have had a trigger in over a week now going on 2. 

Only time will help the healing. She is making every effort in the rebuilding process also. And to be honest it feels great to know and feel that she is putting in just as much effort as I am. I think we are going to be fine as long as we both keep at it.


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## Chris Taylor

"5. And then later, as we start 'exchanging' our daughter during the day, do I just treat her as a business...hello, goodbye, see you later......not cold, just not inquisitive, etc."

"5. Business acquaintance is more than adequate."

I disagree on this one. This is where you really still are partners. This is where you need to have discussions regarding issues surrounding your daughter AND show a little more than business civility in front of her.

Other than that, Twistedheart was right on the money.


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## patientone

Well, last night was her 'official' first night in her new place. She has not moved stuff in yet from our house, but plans to do that sunday. So, she will be spending the night at home tonight and tomorrow, then sunday it starts in her new home.

I put baby to bed tonight...she wanted water (she is 2.5 years old) so I went to the kitchen to get some for her...when I came back, the lights were still off so I asked her if she was still in bed and she said 'yes, I prayed.' Amazing..that just made me feel great as I have been teaching her this for the past week or so.

Anyway, I thought I would feel really crappy tonight...and I am doing ok. I guess the past 4.5 months of coming home to a 'wife hanging out in the other room' took some of the pain away from tonight.

She gave me an offer from her attorney last week...and we talked about it monday. Overall, a great deal for me..if I wanted a divorce of course.

The sick part of all this - her mom built a house attached to ours last year...guess what, she is staying. So, my wife thinks it is a great idea for me to live next to my ex-mother in law? I like the lady, but my goodness.......

So, what can I expect for the next few weeks? When we had the conversation on monday about divorce, I told her that I wanted some time to think...and would like to talk about it again after she has been in her new place for some time. She got SO angry at how "i get everything I want and this is an example of that" and that 'she didn't want to drag this out until october.'

Yesterday, she had a few drinks in the afternoon (she was quite fun actually) and we talked during dinner. Her lies are just compounding on top of each other..she contradicts herself so much these days. Does she realize this or is this just wayward - type talking and they have no clue?


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## jessi

patientone, 
Hang in there, don't worry about what she is doing or thinking, she has made her decisions, let her deal with her own feelings at this point, enjoy your little girl for now.. 
Look forward to your future and don't be pushed into signing anything yet or making any quick decisions if you don't feel comfortable, tell her you won't stop the process, just that you need a little time.......
Don't bail her out in any way let her feel the brunt of her decisions and understand that this is the way she wants it, you only have to take care of your little girl together, other than that you owe her nothing........
When she is out and you are not filling any of her needs she will feel the loss of your life together....
She should go through the process of self reflection and only time will tell what your final outcome will be......
In the meantime keep an open mind to what life has to offer.......post here for support.......(hugs))


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## iamnottheonlyone

The WS will blame you for a rainy day. You wanted to ruin her day at the beach. You get what you want all the time. You just have to control her. As strange as it seems, once you start talking about what you want she can not claim you are trying to control her. It takes practice to always speak in the first person. Doing so stops her from accusing you of blaming her or trying to control her.
Let me give you an example. She just unleashed a stream of explatives like you have never heard come from her mouth (because she can do whatever she wants now!). You can respond one of two ways.
1- You can't talk to me like that.
2 - I won't be spoken to like that.
I was never an "I" person before, but I am now.
Also accept the evil twin. You don't have to do anything. Just listen. Don't talk oh patientone. She will continue to try and manipulate you. Set your boundaries.


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## patientone

Here is an idea that has been brought up.

Instead of doing a 'daily' exchange of our daughter when wife moves out this weekend, asking for a 3-4 day week for each of us to share. That way we don't have to see each other daily - easier to Plan B? It will be really tough for me as I hurt bad when I don't see my daughter. But, on the other hand, it may be real tough for my wife as well bringing reality closer? I don't know...I don't want to hurt anymore...but I know I cannot change my wife. Not sure if this idea does anything or not? Thoughts?


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## Lpt51173

Late to the game on this one but I am learning a lot here. I do need to get a counselor of my own I think to talk things out


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## patientone

Lpt51173 said:


> Late to the game on this one but I am learning a lot here. I do need to get a counselor of my own I think to talk things out


I believe talking to someone is VERY important at a time like this. A support group, pastor, counselor, trusted friend that has gone through this.....all of the above. We cannot do it alone.


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## i_feel_broken

patientone said:


> Here is an idea that has been brought up.
> 
> Instead of doing a 'daily' exchange of our daughter when wife moves out this weekend, asking for a 3-4 day week for each of us to share. That way we don't have to see each other daily - easier to Plan B? It will be really tough for me as I hurt bad when I don't see my daughter. But, on the other hand, it may be real tough for my wife as well bringing reality closer? I don't know...I don't want to hurt anymore...but I know I cannot change my wife. Not sure if this idea does anything or not? Thoughts?


Hi patientone,

I think this is a good idea. My wife moved in with OM 3 weeks ago, and she has our son sunday afternoon to wednesday morning (nursery) then I pick him up on wednesday afternoon and have him until sat lunch time. we then alternate saturday nights. This means I see my wife once a week for the weekend exchange. After 3 weeks I missed them both badly but I was already feeling stronger and was finding time for my own things (very important) like golf, football, socialising. After gaining this strength my wife held out an olive branch to me yesterday, she obviously saw I was getting stronger and began to miss me. The affair was not as rosy as she thought. She then expected me to be in limbo again until she thought about it. Yeah right she continues to sleep with him while I wait for infinite amount of time. I told her if that is how she feels come home now, spend one more night with him and its over. She didnt come back and that has set me back a few weeks but I know it can and will get better.


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## patientone

Everyone, I am really scared to doing this Plan B. Really scared. 
Last week, I saw she had pictures of her and OM in her new house...hanging on the wall. Yuck. Please give me some encouragement, words of advice along with tips on the letter...thank you to all.

PLAN B LETTER - DRAFT 

Dear WIFE,

It is with weeks of thought and internal debate that I write you this letter. The past 6 months have been a nightmare as I never imagined our marriage and relationship would come to this. I loved you from the moment I told you in the Tony Roma's parking lot, to the time I proposed on the beach in California, to when I saw your beautiful smile and teared up when I saw you walk down the aisle at our wedding, to when I found we were pregnant with DAUGHTER and I have never stopped loving you.

Recently, I have learned much about marriage, communication and the mistakes that I made and I have become a much better person in all aspects - father, boss and partner. I am changing and have held myself accountable for my mistakes in our marriage. I never intended for you to feel that you were second to anyone in my life, unloved, not a great mom or that I wasn't proud to be your husband and for that, I do apologize. I never meant for my words to come out in anger and hurt you. At the time, I did not realize my ways or my stubborn reactions that clouded my vision. I never meant to make you feel anything but special to me. I never meant to take your love and our marriage for granted. Nor did I mean to neglect some of your needs that made it possible for you to look outside our marriage for those to be met.

Now, I understand and am learning much more than ever before and want nothing else than to move forward and work on an amazing life together as I feel we can still have that. I have continued to love you unconditionally throughout the past six months, maybe even more than ever before.

However, you must also know that your relationship with OM has and continues to hurt tremendously. The pain and suffering I am enduring with the thought and the constant reminders that he is still involved in your life is indescribable. My only saving grace these days are my memories. How you were so considerate, easy going, fun to be with, beautiful inside and out and how we just meshed in everyday life from our first date and forward. How I was so proud to have you standing by my side. However, with every passing day, those feelings are beginning to erode and I want to preserve my love for you. I am willing to work on whatever we need to do to make our marriage happy for both of us again - but until you end your relationship with OM, I can no longer keep in contact with you as it just hurts me too much. Please do not think this is a punishment or manipulation as it is only to preserve the feelings I still have for you.

You know I do not want this divorce, but realize I cannot do anything about that. I cannot continue to share my life with you knowing that you are 'in love' with another man. Please respect my decision - I will, of course, be available for any discussion regarding DAUGHTER and her well-being. Otherwise, unless you commit to ending your affair with OM and recommit to working on our family, I will no longer be available to you. Any messages can go through your Mother as I care and respect her and her relationship with us. I will leave a weekly calendar with her so we can write any necessary changes to our weekly schedule with daughter.

I have continued to have hope for our marriage while not standing in your way for your vision of a life without me. I am still dreaming that you decide to give our marriage a chance. I want to grow old with you and create new memories. I remember all the good times we had and continue to hold on to the dreams we shared. I have loved you always WIFE and am still loving you while writing this letter. I just cannot continue to endure this pain that I am going through.

I love you.
patientone


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## lobokies

well .. good draft to be sent.


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## the guy

Dude,I'm crying, well said, you covered everything, and go out and take the world, its yours for the taking, it ows you.
Walk away knowing you have learned, and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, stronger then most. You will go into your next relationship with the understanding that most people cant see, a perspective in how to treat your partner. Pravo


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## Affaircare

Patientone~

I have some comments about your letter, so before you send it will you please read my new thread  If You Are About to Go into Plan B/Consequences Stage? I promise I'll write my thoughts about your letter as early as I can tomorrow morning, but right now it's almost 1am Pacific Time and that's past my bedtime! 

P.S. It is very well-written and if you've already sent it, there will be no harm done. I love how you stayed with the theme of the sample letters and added your own personal memories, but there are a few things I think that might tighten it up a bit.


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## patientone

Affaircare..thank you. Have not sent it yet...will read your thread right away and look forward to your thoughts. Thank you for your time...and thoughts. I cannot do this alone.


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## Affaircare

> Dear WIFE,
> 
> It is with weeks of thought and internal debate that I write you this letter. The past 6 months have been a nightmare as I never imagined our marriage and relationship would come to this. I loved you from the moment I told you in the Tony Roma's parking lot, to the time I proposed on the beach in California, to when I saw your beautiful smile and teared up when I saw you walk down the aisle at our wedding, to when I found we were pregnant with DAUGHTER and I have never stopped loving you.
> 
> (Honestly, I love this opening paragraph and wouldn't change a word. It is full of emotion and positive memories. Perfect start.)
> 
> Recently, I have learned much about marriage, communication and the mistakes that I made and I have become a much better person in all aspects - father, boss and partner. I am changing and have held myself accountable for my mistakes in our marriage. I never intended for you to feel that you were second to anyone in my life, unloved, not a great mom or that I wasn't proud to be your husband and for that, I do apologize. I never meant for my words to come out in anger and hurt you. At the time, I did not realize my ways or my stubborn reactions that clouded my vision. I never meant to make you feel anything but special to me. I never meant to take your love and our marriage for granted. Nor did I mean to neglect some of your needs that made it possible for you to look outside our marriage for those to be met.
> 
> (Here's issue #1. Over and over you write "I never intended" ... to make her feel 2nd, to speak in anger and hurt her, to act in a way so she didn't feel special, to take her love for granted, or to neglect her needs. Okay you didn't mean to do it, but you DID. You DID make her feel second. Do you recognize that now and feel sorry? Then saying "I didn't mean to.." does not mean "I was wrong and I apologize"--it means "It's not my fault." So rather than telling her that you didn't intend to do what you did, take personal responsibility like this. "At the time I didn't understand, but I realize now that I ...made you feel 2nd, spoke to you in anger and harshly enough that it hurt you to the core, acted in a way so you did not feel special, took your love for granted, and neglected your needs because I was so focused on mine." This is then a good segue into the next paragraph.)
> 
> Now, I understand and am learning much more than ever before and want nothing else than to move forward and work on an amazing life together as I feel we can still have that. I have continued to love you unconditionally throughout the past six months, maybe even more than ever before.
> 
> However, you must also know that your relationship with OM has and continues to hurt tremendously. The pain and suffering I am enduring with the thought and the constant reminders that he is still involved in your life is indescribable. My only saving grace these days are my memories. How you were so considerate, easy going, fun to be with, beautiful inside and out and how we just meshed in everyday life from our first date and forward. How I was so proud to have you standing by my side. However, with every passing day, those feelings are beginning to erode and I want to preserve my love for you. I am willing to work on whatever we need to do to make our marriage happy for both of us again - but until you end your relationship with OM, I can no longer keep in contact with you as it just hurts me too much. Please do not think this is a punishment or manipulation as it is only to preserve the feelings I still have for you.
> 
> (I would recommend a little more re-enforcement of the words "no longer keep in contact with you" as this is a fairly long paragraph but that concept is less that half of a sentence. It's not very emphasized or clear that you mean it! So end this paragraph with something like, "Until you're ready to end your affair and once again give me 100% of your affection and loyalty, I will no longer accept your calls, read your emails or letter, look at your texts or IMs, or contact you in any way.")
> 
> You know I do not want this divorce, but realize I cannot do anything about that. I cannot continue to share my life with you knowing that you are 'in love' with another man. Please respect my decision - I will, of course, be available for any discussion regarding DAUGHTER and her well-being. Otherwise, unless you commit to ending your affair with OM and recommit to working on our family, I will no longer be available to you. Any messages can go through your Mother as I care and respect her and her relationship with us. I will leave a weekly calendar with her so we can write any necessary changes to our weekly schedule with daughter.
> 
> (I personally disagree with including "...I will, of course, be available for any discussion regarding DAUGHTER and her well-being" because you tell her that you are not willing or able to accept contact and in the next breath you GIVE her the out for which you will allow contact. All she has to do is say, "It's for DAUGHTER"S best interest that I blah blah blah" and she can talk to you about anything! Trust me--she'll try that! LOL  So -ALL- messages go through her mother or use something like this The Parenting Notebook  to coordinate dates, activities, have access to doctor addresses and phone numbers etc. Patientone--*NO CONTACT*.)
> 
> I have continued to have hope for our marriage while not standing in your way for your vision of a life without me. I am still dreaming that you decide to give our marriage a chance. I want to grow old with you and create new memories. I remember all the good times we had and continue to hold on to the dreams we shared. I have loved you always WIFE and am still loving you while writing this letter. I just cannot continue to endure this pain that I am going through.
> 
> I love you.
> patientone


Okay Patientone, thanks for your patience.  I have included my comments/thoughts in red.


----------



## patientone

Thank you Affaircare for your time. I will edit over the weekend and resubmit for review.

Someone, please give me encouragement that this is the right thing to do. It is SO scary..yes, affaircare, I read your link...still scared. I LOVE talking to my wife...my wife that is..the one that comes out every once in a while these days..not the woman that she has been 'acting' like most of the past 6 months. When we have a 'good' conversation or she does something thoughtful (rare, but it happens), I remember and feel good. The rest of the time though..is just difficult.


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## turnera

The thing is, this person you are now dealing with...she is NOT the woman you married. She is an alien in your wife's body. She is an ADDICT who cares about nothing but continuing her fix.

I don't see where you did the previous steps that TanelornPete describes in his 7 steps. Did you?


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## AFEH

patientone said:


> Thank you Affaircare for your time. I will edit over the weekend and resubmit for review.
> 
> Someone, please give me encouragement that this is the right thing to do. It is SO scary..yes, affaircare, I read your link...still scared. I LOVE talking to my wife...my wife that is..the one that comes out every once in a while these days..not the woman that she has been 'acting' like most of the past 6 months. When we have a 'good' conversation or she does something thoughtful (rare, but it happens), I remember and feel good. The rest of the time though..is just difficult.


From how I see things you have done everything exactly right. And your plans are right as well.

Me? I have a very simple thought. I will not stay married to a person who doesn’t want me. Period. If I’m not “good enough” for my wife then I’m not good enough for her. Simple. If she wants an affair or go off and live with another man then go ahead and do it. But she does it totally without any support from me. It is her choice after all and she must take the responsibility for her choices in life.

I can’t see how you could have done anything better or that you have missed out on anything at all.

I do like the way you haven’t “blamed” TOM. These ****heads are about that charm a married woman but it’s the married woman that responds to those charms so as far as I’m concerned it’s the married woman that’s at fault. I reckon once he’s been with your wife a while he’ll be off charming someone else. Why? Because he doesn’t believe in or value the sanctity of marriage.

My wife was charmed by one of those. Three divorces and a violent quick temper and she fell for him because he was easy to talk to. Righto. She never recognised he was just trying to get into her knickers. I knew the guy well. He went back to his original partner, the one that he was having an affair with and was the cause of his third divorce. Unlucky wifey you picked the wrong man. Your wife will more likely find that out in time and then she’ll more likely want good old you back. My door is closed, I just don’t like her anymore let alone love her.

You will have a period of grieving to go through which is more difficult than mine was as you have a dependent child.

I do really wish you well.

Bob


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## AFEH

patientone said:


> Everyone, I am really scared to doing this Plan B. Really scared.
> Last week, I saw she had pictures of her and OM in her new house...hanging on the wall. Yuck. Please give me some encouragement, words of advice along with tips on the letter...thank you to all.
> 
> PLAN B LETTER - DRAFT
> 
> Dear WIFE,
> 
> It is with weeks of thought and internal debate that I write you this letter. The past 6 months have been a nightmare as I never imagined our marriage and relationship would come to this. I loved you from the moment I told you in the Tony Roma's parking lot, to the time I proposed on the beach in California, to when I saw your beautiful smile and teared up when I saw you walk down the aisle at our wedding, to when I found we were pregnant with DAUGHTER and I have never stopped loving you.
> 
> Recently, I have learned much about marriage, communication and the mistakes that I made and I have become a much better person in all aspects - father, boss and partner. I am changing and have held myself accountable for my mistakes in our marriage. I never intended for you to feel that you were second to anyone in my life, unloved, not a great mom or that I wasn't proud to be your husband and for that, I do apologize. I never meant for my words to come out in anger and hurt you. At the time, I did not realize my ways or my stubborn reactions that clouded my vision. I never meant to make you feel anything but special to me. I never meant to take your love and our marriage for granted. Nor did I mean to neglect some of your needs that made it possible for you to look outside our marriage for those to be met.
> 
> Now, I understand and am learning much more than ever before and want nothing else than to move forward and work on an amazing life together as I feel we can still have that. I have continued to love you unconditionally throughout the past six months, maybe even more than ever before.
> 
> However, you must also know that your relationship with OM has and continues to hurt tremendously. The pain and suffering I am enduring with the thought and the constant reminders that he is still involved in your life is indescribable. My only saving grace these days are my memories. How you were so considerate, easy going, fun to be with, beautiful inside and out and how we just meshed in everyday life from our first date and forward. How I was so proud to have you standing by my side. However, with every passing day, those feelings are beginning to erode and I want to preserve my love for you. I am willing to work on whatever we need to do to make our marriage happy for both of us again - but until you end your relationship with OM, I can no longer keep in contact with you as it just hurts me too much. Please do not think this is a punishment or manipulation as it is only to preserve the feelings I still have for you.
> 
> You know I do not want this divorce, but realize I cannot do anything about that. I cannot continue to share my life with you knowing that you are 'in love' with another man. Please respect my decision - I will, of course, be available for any discussion regarding DAUGHTER and her well-being. Otherwise, unless you commit to ending your affair with OM and recommit to working on our family, I will no longer be available to you. Any messages can go through your Mother as I care and respect her and her relationship with us. I will leave a weekly calendar with her so we can write any necessary changes to our weekly schedule with daughter.
> 
> I have continued to have hope for our marriage while not standing in your way for your vision of a life without me. I am still dreaming that you decide to give our marriage a chance. I want to grow old with you and create new memories. I remember all the good times we had and continue to hold on to the dreams we shared. I have loved you always WIFE and am still loving you while writing this letter. I just cannot continue to endure this pain that I am going through.
> 
> I love you.
> patientone


I wouldn’t write that sort of letter. Why? Look your wife has deceived you, lied to you and cheated on you. And in your letter you are pointing out your faults!!! What’s that all about?

“””””””””””””””””
Wife,
I am so surprised to have discovered that I was married to a woman capable of cheating on me and then deceiving me further and telling me yet more lies when I found out. I just did not know that you were capable of that type of behaviour. But I accept that you are that type of person. Not only that I am totally surprised to come to the realisation that you have set up your life with a man so low that for his woman he chooses one that is already married. And he, the man you have chosen is willing to be with a woman capable cheating on him, deceiving him in exactly the same way as you have done to me.

I simply cannot see how two people each with the moralities of an alley cat can have a happy and lasting marriage. If you have a row he’ll be wondering if you’ve started an affair with another man and when he’s out late at night you’ll be wondering if he’s pulled another married woman.

I have very good memories of you up until the time you went and had sex with another man and because of those good memories and because you are the mother of my child I will make it as easy as I can for you to go on your way. Although I cannot see happiness for you in the future given the moralities of the two of you I wish you all the happiness you can muster up between the two of you.
“””””””””””””””””

Patientone, I simply don’t believe this is the time for you to highlight your faults and what you have done to overcome them. I really don’t. Why? She’s Not Interested!!!

Further if you highlight your faults all you are doing to her is confirming and making stronger her supposed reasons for leaving you. In a way you are setting those reasons in concrete. Why do that?

The time to do that stuff, to talk about and accept your faults is when you are both committed 100% to making your marriage work for the two of you. You have zero commitment from your wife. Now your wife’s new life may well turn out to be the pits for her and she may well want to get back with you. If she does that is the time for you to work together on your faults and on her faults. Meanwhile just focus on what is good about you and ignore the rest.

Bob


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## Affaircare

Needless to say, I disagree with AFEH's suggestion, and I'd be happy to explain why. 

As you know, my Dear Hubby and I recommend seven steps in a certain order that give the marriage the most likely chance of recovery. Do the marriages *always* recover? No. No sometimes the disloyal spouse is too stubborn to admit they were wrong or they have personality disorders they do not want to face, etc. But the steps were developed in the order they are in for a reason: because one after the other, they apply more pressure to the fantasy bubble of the affair. 

Step one, gather evidence, is primarily to assure the LOYAL spouse that although they can not trust their disloyal to be honest, they can trust their own gut instinct. The pressure to the affair is not direct but gaining the proof that it's not just jealousy or "in their head" does apply pressure that the disloyal can no longer "lie it away" and make excuses. 

Step two, confront, applies the first direct pressure to the disloyal and the affair fantasy. That is, the loyal spouse NAMES it for what it is--adultery--says out loud that being unfaithful is wrong, and asks right out for the disloyal spouse to stop of their own accord. This gives the disloyal the opportunity to do the right thing and preserve maximum dignity. 

Step three, disclose, applies a bit more pressure to the affair fantasy as someone the disloyal trusts and looks up to is TOLD that they are committing adultery. The pressure is that the affair is not longer a "romantic secret" and someone the disloyal admires is telling them to stop before they hurt others. The pressure is that the affair will begin to take on a more ugly taint as light is shown on it. 

Step four, expose, applies SERIOUS pressure as those who will be affect by an impending divorce are told the truth: that it's not because the loyal spouse was verbally abusive or mismanaged money (as the disloyal will say to magnify the loyal's fault and justify adultery) but rather because there is an AFFAIR! When parents, family, friends, and employers actively step in to say this is wrong and we will not allow it here, it can make the disloyal very angry BUT a marriage can survive anger and it can not survive ongoing adultery. Furthermore, telling the truth is not wrong--committing adultery is! So bringing the truth to light is not what's causing the embarrassment and problems--continuing to choose to commit adultery is. As you can see, the pressure on the affair fantasy in this step is pretty great because some time together at work may be cut off, friends and family are saying it's wrong, and the other spouse is informed and he/she may put their foot down. This step is crucial and often ends the affair right then and there. 

Step five, Carrot & Stick (also sometimes called Plan A), is the next step and this is for the disloyal who has hardened their heart so much that they did not end it in exposure. This disloyal is going to be more deeply embedded in the addiction of the affair and the "disloyal dizziness." This disloyal is the one who doesn't see that their OP is also coming on to three other people in the office, has gone through a string of affairs, has 4 divorces and several very angry exes, can't hold a job, and has nothing to offer. So the pressure of this stage is TWOFOLD: 1) demonstrate to the disloyal that the loyal sees their mistakes, takes personal responsibility for their side, and has already worked on themselves to once again become someone who can meet their needs, and 2) allow the disloyal to experience the natural consequences of their choices to continue the affair. #1 is pressure because the disloyal has been magnifying the loyal's issues and minimizing the OP's, but by demonstrating change and acknowledging their own side, the loyal takes those justifications away and also demonstrates true commitment and honor. Meanwhile the OP may continue "as is" but that would mean continuing in their uncommitted, unfaithful, "playah" kind of behavior. The contrast can be stark enough that even a disloyal enveloped in dizzy fog can see it. #2 brings pressure because as the loyal spouse looks better and like a candidate who could fulfill needs, the NATURAL consequences help the disloyal realize that the adultery COSTS THEM (that "I get the house, the kids, alimony and childsupport, and a divorce in 60 days will be over), and will simultaneously help the disloyal realize that the OP can NOT fulfill needs! So this steps applies pressure in two ways: the loyal has already changed and demonstrates they CAN meet needs; the OP still is a playah, still sweet-talks but can NOT meet needs. 

The next step depends on the timing of the loyal spouse. Some can take it a little better, are more patient, and can peacefully outwait their disloyal; some are too hurt, are not as patient, and can not endure the betrayal. Average step five is in the neighborhood of 6 months more or less. The clue that it's time to move on is when the loyal spouse begins to see that it wasn't just them--that the disloyal has personal issues too and is not addressing them or willing to change; when the loyal begins to be impatient and snappy and it's not just a bad day; then the loyal does not have peace and is beginning to no longer love their spouse. 

Then step six, No Contact/Plan B. Built on this entire foundation of groundwork, the loyal spouse applies almost the last, most drastic pressure to the affair. The disloyal spouse knows that the loyal spouse can meet needs and the OP doesn't measure up and usually they are too stubborn to admit they are wrong and end it. So leaving that last good taste in their mouth, the loyal spouse writes the No Contact Letter like patientone has written, to enforce a boundary of no contact until the affair is over. The letter includes his faults because the disloyal spouse tends to blame the loyal as a way of justifying their adultery, and this letter in print demonstrates that the blame-justification is null. Okay in the past both partners made mistakes--he was at work all the time and took her for granted, she focused on kids and didn't leave time or energy to admire him or be a lover. The disloyal has been using the excuse: "I can't/won't go back because he hurt me!" or "She was an angry witch and yelled at me about everything!" In this letter, the loyal says right out loud: "I see what my mistakes were and I have already made changes--I'm willing to work on myself and do better." Can the OP say that? The loyal shows with actions that the environment at home is "non-threatening", yet "changing" where the disloyal can clearly see that there are improvements made in the loyal spouse's ability to meet the disloyal's needs--thus it is Love Kindling. Further, it's important that this letter not be a blaming or Love Extinguishing letter, so pointing out all of the disloyal's faults or calling names is not going to increase the likelihood of recovery. This letter would be more like one last love letter; however, the love can not last forever and after all that has occurred, it's low enough now that in order to preserve it, there has to be NO CONTACT while the affair continues. This letter isn't meant as one last barb at the disloyal but rather to let them know love still exists, it's small, and their continued choice is now going to cost them a lot. It gives the loyal some relief and a bit of a backbone as they enforce a boundary.

The big point of No Contact/Plan B though is to hopefully wake up a disloyal who's been so deep in fog they can't see. Usually people go into an affair thinking many blatantly false things, not the least of which is that if they divorce their spouse, they will remain friends and be able to continue to tell them what to do and get their help! This letter lays down some hard reality while also making sure to communicate that there is hope to recover and there is still love. No Contact/Plan B is specifically to show the disloyal that if you divorce, you no longer are in your spouse's life--you don't have a say, they don't help you with anything, it costs you, and your OP just can not meet needs like your spouse did. Often just by going into No Contact/Plan B the burden on the OP is enough that they dump the disloyal and take off after their next conquest. 

So I do disagree with AFEH's suggestion. This letter is not supposed to be one last poke at the disloyal. It's almost the exact opposite! The No Contact/Plan B letter is meant to be one last love letter that shows maturity and personal responsibility...leading by example. After all, ultimately that's what you want of your disloyal right? That they would take responsibility for their own actions and choices?


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## AFEH

Affaircare,
Out of curiosity what’s the success rate of your process? You’re running this as a business to earn an income so you’ll be keeping records on how well you are doing. Although you are giving your time away here for free. How many loyal spouses have you led through the process and out of those how many have successfully reunited with their disloyal spouse?

I’d really like to know. I would certainly need to know those figures if I were to walk the path you describe. Personally I would like to telephone at least three couples for their points of view on the process before I embarked on it. If I didn’t have that information I would just think I’m involved in an “experiment”.

I feel certain you will want to share your figures and not be worried about any competition because you have published your process here.

Bob


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## michzz

For the most part I agree with the steps you recommend are taken once a cheater has been discovered by a spouse.

However, the flaw that I have experienced myself is when a cheater is successful in using deceit to keep the affair going -- in my case for years.

Despite going to a marriage counselor, her crocodile tears of denial that it happened more than once, her acting like she stopped and regretted it.

We wrote the no contact letter, she actually got on the phone in my presence and and said it was over.

I even checked her email and the phone.

But you know what? It never ended, not for 8 years. It took another 8 for her to admit it hadn't ended.

I did everything "right" regarding verifying. With one exception. 

I didn't get his full name from her. She gave me a bogus name.

I am extremely cynical about what has transpired in my life as a result of her cheating. 

I am convinced one one thing. The ability for a cheating spouse to deceive is shocking.


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## Tanelornpete

Wow Bob - that's a tough one because we operate on a strictly confidential basis - we have successes and losses (there are no guarantees in life). We cannot give out any personal information _at all_ - that would be the prerogative of the people we've helped themselves. In fact, there have been some right here on this forum. If they feel like speaking about it, that's up to them. 

Whatever the outcome of the relationship, I would also point out that the process we use involves _personal growth_, which is a large part of the results for which we look. Again, we cannot reveal personal information, but anyone who has worked with us can testify to that achievement. Marriage is built on love and commitment, not power and control, and learning those things are more beneficial than can be valued. 

As for this being 'an experiment' - we are not the only people using this 'experimental' method: for example, check out Marriage Builders for the same method. They've been 'experimenting' a lot longer than we - maybe you could confront them for their statistics as well! 

What we do is not designed to control people's lives; instead it is designed to create growth within the partners of the relationship in which an affair is less of an option. 

As a matter of curiosity, I'd like to know the success rate of your experiment (which, from where I stand, seems to be a modified form of Now I've Got You.) Can you reveal names and numbers of marriages you've helped save? If so, how would these people feel about their information being revealed?


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## AFEH

Tanelornpete I’m not surprised. I did think that would be your reply, not to give your figures.

I thought you would be proud of them, 30% out of a 100, 40% out of 10 or whatever. But if you do not want to publish those figures hey that’s your choice. In that case I for one most certainly would not follow your process because I haven’t a clue what your success rate is on reuniting a loyal spouse with a disloyal spouse. Personal growth is a fine thing, there are many places and well proven processes I can go to for that if I wish. But you are about Affaircare, reuniting spouses after an affair. That is your claim to fame so to speak.

I most certainly did not ask for any personal information about the people you have worked with to be published here. However if I were to chose your process I would expect to have details of three couples you have helped out successfully before embarking on it. If I’d been through your process I for one would most certainly talk to a person who was contemplating if it was the right process for them.

Me? I’m a guy who was with the same woman for 42 years and married for 38 years. Like most I experienced sadness and joy and happiness. I don’t have the same stake in this as you do, I’m not looking to make money from it, it is not how I earn my living. But I’ve been thanked and that’s enough for me.

“Now I’ve got you?”. No. That’s not me. But you don’t have one little chance of understanding a person like me. It’s not in your nature Tanelornpete.

Bob


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## AFEH

Patientone, believe me I know, like many others here what you are going through. I went through the same stuff when my two sons were kiddies. Broke my heart. And from experience I know it is so very different when young ones are in the loop. From that respect, it is easy for me to talk now because my two sons are in their 30s and I don’t have to take them into consideration so much.

I do believe a cheating spouse needs calling out by their partner. I do believe we really do need to communicate to them exactly what we think about their behaviour and give them some insight into their future with TOM. Second marriages for example have a greater divorce rate than first marriages.

I am sorry I got mixed up in a more or less hijack of your thread.

It is of course up to you to decide the path to take that is right for you. There is no silver bullet for these things, no one solution fits all. If there were the person who invented the silver bullet would be worth millions. At the very least you are hearing of different options, different paths to take.

Bob


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## seeking sanity

Hey Bob, the affaircare folks have always been really generous with their time and input. I don't recall once an overt pitch for their services, other than referrencing articles on their website.

I think you're out of line. His advice is good and valid. Your approach seems more to come from anger. I've been there, and am often still in an angery state, so I get it. But if the goal is somehow salvage the relationship, the Affaircare approach is as good as any others. All sending a sh*tty letter does is further entrench his wife in her position that she's made the right choice to leave. Critisism almost never accomplishes what you want it to.


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## turnera

AFEH said:


> Affaircare,
> Out of curiosity what’s the success rate of your process? You’re running this as a business to earn an income so you’ll be keeping records on how well you are doing. Although you are giving your time away here for free. How many loyal spouses have you led through the process and out of those how many have successfully reunited with their disloyal spouse?
> 
> I’d really like to know. I would certainly need to know those figures if I were to walk the path you describe. Personally I would like to telephone at least three couples for their points of view on the process before I embarked on it. If I didn’t have that information I would just think I’m involved in an “experiment”.
> 
> I feel certain you will want to share your figures and not be worried about any competition because you have published your process here.
> 
> Bob


Bob, have you ever read at marriagebuilders.com? AC's plan is pretty much exactly the same plan, actually it's tweaked a little to be even better than the one Dr. Harley posits over at MB. And he's been counseling cheating/cheated spouses for 30 years with this same plan. It's based on psychology. If I have time I'll come back and explain it. But you really can't beat psychology, as it helps you predict behavior - thus the plan.


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## AFEH

With respect to everyone here but especially Patientone I’m bowing out of this thread as I feel I’m guilty of taking the focus off of the help he is seeking. I hope everyone understands that.

Bob


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## patientone

No worries on the thread....thanks to all for contributing. I believe that one in my position is already thinking of all the possible scenarios..and outcomes. I have done MUCH reading and learning in the past six months. What it comes down to is what one wants to accept and is comfortable doing.....one needs to make his/her own decisions. I am not sure as to which path I will go, but I have learned lots.

1. I CANNOT do anything about my wife. Her feelings will or won't change on her own timeline...nothing I can do can speed that along or change her thoughts. 

2. I WILL be ok. Scarred perhaps, sad for a time, surely. But one day, no matter the outcome of this marriage, I will be ok. And the things I am learning from this have already made me a better person...and I was not that bad before 

3. My wife may end up married to this OP, she may not. She may come asking to try again, she may not. I have no idea..and NO expectations. Sure, I know what I would LIKE to have happen...but I cannot, nor can anyone, guarantee any result. So, I just have to 'roll with it' and do all for myself and my daughter to come out of this mess as strong as possible.

I thank everyone for their posts here...I respect and value all opinions. As should everyone. We are all free to make our own decisions...as in the end, we have to live with them.

I will edit the letter and post up as I am ready to go that route. I go through phases...I have done the steps for the past 6 months....will see the next step as it feels right. Thank you and keep on posting....I'll keep learning.


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## cmf

patientone- I just started reading your posts today. It seems we are in similar positions . I gave my stbxh my Plan B letter on Friday. It is scary and difficult. I'm hoping it will get easier at some point.


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## patientone

She has accepted the terms of divorce and my counteroffer..so Plan B letter will be given tomorrow morning. Hardest thing I have ever done...but now, she seems to Plan B me most of the time anyway so it will not be that big of a step. Yuck. Any words of wisdom before I plunge into this step?


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## iamnottheonlyone

Stay strong Oh Patientone. You are a fine person.


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## turnera

Yeah, wait at least a year after divorce to date anyone. (sorry, but it's true)


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## patientone

turnera said:


> Yeah, wait at least a year after divorce to date anyone. (sorry, but it's true)


No worries, I am not in a hurry. Now, I don't even hang out with any females as I am 'still married' and do not think it is appropriate.

However, this may be the subject for another thread, but tell why wait for dating? Is the reason another reason why our cheating spouses and their relationship is doomed...they did not even wait to get out of one marriage before jumping into another. I enjoy learning about this - hate that it happened to me, but may as well learn something while I am here. So, Turnera - the ball is in your court..I'm curious. Thank you.


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## turnera

Yeah, it's that jumping thing. If a marriage doesn't work out, wouldn't you want to know WHY? 

What is the point of picking another person if you haven't done the 'time,' to reflect on what exactly went wrong, and what part YOU played in its demise? If you don't do that, you are surely doomed to repeat your improper actions in the next relationship. Time gives you space to be by yourself, get to know yourself, be comfortable with yourself and not needy. Also gives you time to do the heavy thinking required to come to grips with what happened so you're not rebounding. Plus it gives you time to start changing yourself so those bad habits get left behind.

I think I read somewhere that you should not date for at least one month for every year of your marriage, but I think a year is a good time, too.


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## seeking sanity

Respectfully, I don't really agree with tunera. I've heard the stats quoted and they are sensible in an idealized sense, but life is much more raw and difficult. If you can handle the loneliness then by all means wait. If not, the thing to be careful of is a relationship. Dating if you are clear about your head space is fine. And dating can be whatever you decide it is. I found going thru that process better helped understand myself, what I wanted, what the real world was like, and I gained perspective. Just don't mislead your dates. Lying to get your ego propped up is hurtful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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