# Newly separated and confused. (No contact)



## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

Hi

Took the decision to read many topics on here about the whole no contact issue. 

My wife and I have been together for 5.5 years, married for 4 this coming October (that'll be a fun anniversary!!). We have a blended family, the age range between the children being quite big. My son has moved out now and so it's me, my wife, her son and my daughter half the week from my first marriage. Me and my wife are childhood sweethearts who drifted apart late teens and got back in touch 20 years later. We fell deeply in I've very quickly, engaged in 8 months and married a year later. My son who I referred to as having moved out, he created problems in the relationship through jealousy but also through him having Asperger Syndrome, which my wife has never got to grips with or took the time to understand. At present their relationship is none existent to the point even we don't talk about him together. He's living his own life with his partner and I see him quite often. The behaviour he displayed through puberty was horrendous and that was at the point my wife and I met. At first she moved heaven and earth to help me and deal with him. I'm a single parent to him. A few years in and hevsud something horrific that I can't go into here. It made my wife move out though and it took 18m and my son having moved out to repair our relationship. Now my sons behaviour over the years, sadly, has driven me to drink heavily. My wife is a non drinker and has a hard time with my drinking. Rightly so too as it's created problems for us. In June I went for help with it and gave completely changed my habits where it's concerned. I drink less than in moderation now and my life, health wise, is much better. She was proud of this and it was a big issue removed. Also in June my son said he was getting married and as his dad I obviously am excited about it. As said earlier, he is a taboo subject but I wanted to share my enthusiasm with my wife. Big mistake. To cut to the chase my wife moved out again 3 weeks ago and has brought all her anger up from the last few years as her reasoning, both about my drinking and because of my son. 

Now I was a mess this last three weeks. Constantly texting, messaging, Facebook statuses - the works. Any excuse to text and I would, and not a little one, entire essays at how things could change. Having took the decision to read if I'm a freak for behaving like such a needy moron, I've learned it's what most people end up doing and have took comfort in it. My wife says she doesn't want to rush into divorce but maybe would look at a legal separation. She has asked me to completely leave her alone and has also refused to let me say goodbye to my stepson, or allow him to say goodbye to his step sister - my daughter. He has literally been lifted from our home and that's that. He must think we don't care about him. When my wife does this, and this is 4 times now, she runs to her parents house and they welcome her with gifts and open arms. Previously we've kept in contact and resolved things that way, but now she wants me to literally not talk to her at all, which us proving to be impossible. It's now 48 hours since that ban and I'm trying to keep it together. 

We have set no boundaries on when contact is allowed again but just like this entire split it's all on her terms and I just have to sit and wait. I hate it. Every second of it and feel very much in limbo because on one hand she insists she never wants to repair our marriage yet doesn't want a divorce - yet. So I'm here begging for help on what to do. My mind says the theory of no contact will hopefully help her miss me and see what's what, but I keep on thinking of things I've not told her yet that might trigger her to try to repair things. 

Help!!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Do you have access to her phone bill?

I ask because it's crucial to determine whether you're dealing with a wayward wife or a walk-away wife. The actions that one needs to take for these two situations are dramatically different.


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

No, no access to phone bill. I trust her completely so I'm not of the thought she is playing away.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I think it'd be important to know what your son did and how you handled it. It must have been something fairly bad I'm assuming. 

Also drinking anything is not good for someone who had a problem with drinking. You should stop 100%


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

It's something I can't repeat on here but it was bad and something I'd hope nobody has to go through. It didn't directly affect my wife, but the act of what he did determined her opinion of him, which is now in the soil and has been since. 
As for the drinking. She encouraged me not to go 100% sober but to do so for a while and then drink within moderation, which is what I've achieved. 
I have suggested bipolar to my wife because of how erratic and quick she is to take action without thinking. She's waiting for counselling but in the good old UK it takes time for a referral.


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

Having just seen the emotionally unavailable post, it reminded me my wife says she's become emotionally detached. I have no idea what that means. She displays very positive and loving emotions when things are good, but all it takes is her son to look at her the wrong way or something very insignificant and it's like the world has ended and that will be that. A sunken and angry face until she snaps out of it. I've also asked why since leaving she talks to me like I'm a stranger, to which she says she's actually turned off her emotions?? Just wow at that!!!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

From what you've said, you MUST go dark on her, and force yourself to move on. YOU CANNOT MAKE HER COME BACK! She will NOT listen to reason. She does NOT feel the same as you. 

Hope that being unavailable to her will make her miss you. Smart money is on forgetting her and moving on. DIfficult, but I assure you it's doable. It just takes a while. NOt something you can do in a day.

When a woman falls out of love, it rarely returns. You are an alcoholic. That's tough to deal with. Drinking in "moderation" for a person that has a problem with alcohol is laughable. You need to get to where you never touch the stuff again. It will ruin all your future relationships. 
JMO


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

Evinrude, thank you for your reply. My wife loves me, she says she's never loved me more. We were on holiday a week before this happened and so that is how out of the blue it is. She has huge anxiety problems from years back when she was young, and it's a real problem for her. I'm now past 48 hours no contact and have spent most of my working day googling strategies to reconcile and am currently looking at a hand written letter. This is a near 40 year old man you're listening to typing that ? 
I've had encouragement from a mutual friend that my wife is conflicted by her decision, but if I ask her she just says it's over and to leave her alone. It's very frustrating and being a 'thinker' I'm over thinking when I should stop the no contact, if it will make her miss me, will age find something else, will she think I've stopped caring now I've gone quiet. You can tell the frame of mind I'm in I'm sure.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You can't do your wife's part to 'save' your marriage, though. You can't win her back, it will take her to also want to return to the marriage and work on things. I'd say that NC is for her to not be distracted by you. Not that you're a distraction, but she doesn't need empty promises thrown at her from a man desperate to say anything to get her back. That's what NC does, and you should take this time to process if this is really the marriage YOU want. It sounds like you are scared more than anything, but NC will help you with that.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

We get it. NC is very, very difficult.

Perhaps give yourself a time frame. Decide I am going to do NC for 2 weeks (or whatever you determine). I'm someone who needs a timeline and a plan. Leaving stuff up in the air drives me crazy. Once I establish a game plan, then I can cope with things better.

I'm so sorry your family is going through this, and hope you can find resolution and peace.


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> You can't do your wife's part to 'save' your marriage, though. You can't win her back, it will take her to also want to return to the marriage and work on things. I'd say that NC is for her to not be distracted by you. Not that you're a distraction, but she doesn't need empty promises thrown at her from a man desperate to say anything to get her back. That's what NC does, and you should take this time to process if this is really the marriage YOU want. It sounds like you are scared more than anything, but NC will help you with that.


Thank you for those words. They were quite comforting and reassuring in a way. It is the marriage I want but with changes on both parties to make. My wife is currently living at her parents and will be being made a fuss of and her parents, who I despise, will be laying it on thick to brain wash her. That's what they do and as stated in my initial post, I've known my wife for best part of 30 years and I remember what her parents were like then. She's an only child and they would pick and choose her friends for her and would tell her who and who not she can be friends with. It's almost like a cult how they treat her mind. She's been taught to think she can never be in the wrong and that she is better than everyone. If I told her the sky was blue and she was in the right from of mind to argue, she would swear blind it was pink to the point it's impossible to debate with her. That's what her parents have done to her. She can't cope with the real world but when she's happy away from them, she's the best person in the world. The minute something happens she doesn't like, she's back in the bubble of her parents. My mates think it's fascinating to see, as they've never seen anyone act like that. I've tried explaining to her that her parents won't always be there and that we are married and hitting our 40's to experience going through losing our parents, sticking together, raising her boy and seeing my daughter through to adult hood at which point it's then our time. It's so frustrating to get anything across to her. What she does though is act first, think and regret/apologise later and that's what I'm clinging onto that it will happen again. Sadly my friends and even my own parents have said if we get back together this time they won't ever want to be in her company. They've seen what she's done to me again and won't accept her as part of our circle anymore as thisis the fourth time she would be back now if it happened. All I want is my wife. I miss her.


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## HopefullStill (Sep 2, 2017)

Hi. 

I'm in a similar position as you. My wife left me 8 weeks ago. I went to work, came home, and she'd moved all her stuff out. We've been married 9 years this month. She says that resentments have been building up for years but she's never been able to talk about anything. She is a self diagnosed 'people pleaser'. It could also be described as being lazy. Eventually, the resentment built up so much, she left. One of the resentments was that when we bought our current house, I made an offer instead of giving them asking price. We still got the house! Other resentments are similarly confusing.

We have been together for 15 years and my wife has had a reasonably comfortable time. She's never done any cleaning or cooking or shopping, or anything around the house. She's never contributed much financially and she has always kept her own money. She has had amazing holidays, fantastic cars, expensive jewellery, designer clothes and handbags and she has lived in some amazing houses.
Even now, 8 weeks later, I still miss her like Hell and cry about it every day.

Since she left we have spent a weekend together in New York. She has spent the last 4 Fridays back here with me. We have also booked a week in Turkey for 2 weeks time. We have had some amazing times over the last 8 weeks and we are fantastic friends. She says that is all she wants though. I want us to get back together and sort out our issues. We are both going to counselling (individually). She has now moved into a flat we own about 100 yards away from our house. It is so hard though. My life is on hold hoping she will come back. She is excited about making her own way.

Reading what I've just written makes me wonder why I want her back. I just do though!

I'm saying this to let you know you are not on your own. There are lots of people going through this. No one can help you, it's the worst feeling in the world (when it's happening to you). I'm sure it's going to get better though. I've got to have that hope. I have been drunk every day since she left (apart from 2). I have lost 20lbs in weight. I have struggled holding it together at work. And I am still hopeful that we will get back together. I know I have to give her time. I just hope I can hold it together long enough.


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## BelieverInLove (Sep 1, 2017)

HopefullStill said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm in a similar position as you. My wife left me 8 weeks ago. I went to work, came home, and she'd moved all her stuff out. We've been married 9 years this month. She says that resentments have been building up for years but she's never been able to talk about anything. She is a self diagnosed 'people pleaser'. It could also be described as being lazy. Eventually, the resentment built up so much, she left. One of the resentments was that when we bought our current house, I made an offer instead of giving them asking price. We still got the house! Other resentments are similarly confusing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that, mate. You sound like you're in as much despair as I am but are keeping the basics going - work etc. That's important. On one of the other three times my wife has done this, I went into melt down, had two weeks off and went into a place I'm not going to return to this time. It's different this time and I'm very intrigued to know why I'm managing to cope better. In fact I've put more hours in work than I do normally this last 4 weeks. It's strange. 

Some stories on this site are pretty eye opening and in a twisted way it's 'nice' to know I'm not alone. If I could though I'd remove the pain from anyone going through it, strangers like your good self included. It's horrible and this whole no contact thing is proving to be a real nasty thing to do. All I've done the last 5.5 years is text or talk to my best friend every single day and now it's silence. I just hope her anger dies down soon and she starts to see the things she misses from me and our marriage.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BelieverInLove said:


> I have suggested *bipolar* to my wife because of how erratic and quick she is to take action without thinking.


Perhaps your W is bipolar, Believer. That is not what you're describing here, however. Rather, the behaviors you mention are red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, cold withdrawal, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Instead, I'm suggesting she may be a "BPDer," i.e., may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it, thus placing her on the upper third of the BPD spectrum.



> She displays very positive and loving emotions when things are good, but all it takes is her son to look at her the wrong way or something very insignificant and it's like the world has ended and that will be that.


You've seen this very same behavior many times a day when your son and daughter were 3 and 4 years old. At that young age, a child is too immature to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. The result was that the child adored Daddy when you were bringing out the toys but would flip, in only ten seconds, to hating Daddy when you took one away. These rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) is a behavior that arises from _"black-white thinking."_ 

I mention this because,if your W is a BPDer, she likely has the emotional development of a 4-year-old. This would mean she is too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. Hence, like a young child, she will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will quickly recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or action. 

This is why the spouses of BPDers often feel -- as you seem to feel -- that they are walking on eggshells trying to avoid triggering a temper tantrum.  And this is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is titled _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.



> She insists she never wants to repair our marriage yet doesn't want a divorce.


If she is a BPDer, she usually hates to be alone because her self identity is too weak. Hence, even when she is pushing you away, a BPDer usually realizes that she does not want to be alone. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_



> She talks to me like I'm a stranger, to which she says she's actually turned off her emotions?? Just wow at that!!!


As noted above, a BPDer cannot tolerate being in touch with two strong conflicting feelings simultaneously. Hence, like a young child, she will "split off" one of the conflicting feelings (e.g., love), putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. In this way, she has to deal with only one strong feeling at a time. Although it can seem like the BPDer no longer loves you, the love is still there but is unavailable to her conscious mind.



> I've had encouragement from a mutual friend that my wife is conflicted by her decision, but if I ask her she just says it's over and to leave her alone.


If she is a BPDer, she can have strongly "conflicted" emotions -- as you say. Yet, as noted above, a BPDer is too immature to be in touch with those strong conflicting feelings at the same time. Instead, she is either in touch with her love for you -- or with her hatred/anger toward you. The result is a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. 

This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear. As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, you are always in a lose/lose situation. You lose no matter what you do. 



> A sunken and angry face until she snaps out of it.... I just hope her anger dies down soon.


When a BPDer has a bad temper tantrum, it typically lasts 4 or 5 hours and only rarely will last as long as two days. This does not mean, however, that your breakups are limited to two days with a BPDer because she may "split you black" for weeks or months. Remember, with BPDers, there is no gray area between white and black because they cannot handle strong mixed feelings and conflicting feelings. Hence, a BPDer typically will flip back to splitting you white in ten seconds. It will be so fast -- if it occurs again -- that it will seem like she has simply flipped a switch in her mind.



> My wife loves me, she says she's never loved me more. We were on holiday a week before this happened and so that is how out of the blue it is.


If she is a BPDer, it is not surprising that -- "out of the blue" -- a temper tantrum followed on the heels of a great holiday. With BPDers, the very WORST fights typically occur immediately after -- if not during -- the very BEST of times. 

Like nearly every other adult, a BPDer craves intimacy. Yet, because her self identity is so fragile and her personal boundaries are so weak, she will quickly start feeling like she is losing herself (i.e., disappearing) into your strong personality when intimacy is sustained for very long. It is frightening because she can feel like her identity is evaporating into thin air and that you are controlling and suffocating her.

When that scary feeling of engulfment occurs, a BPDer's subconscious protects her by projecting this painful feeling outside her body -- onto you. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she is absolutely convinced -- at a conscious level -- that the hurtful feelings and thoughts are originating from you. She therefore will start a fight -- over nothing at all -- to push you away and give her breathing space. 

This is why a BPDer often will start fights immediately after a very intimate evening or great weekend -- or right in the middle of a very expensive vacation. And this is why you often will see an angry BPDer making allegations so absurd that you are amazed any adult is capable of saying such nonsense while keeping a straight face.



> When my wife does this, and this is 4 times now, she runs to her parents house.


Due to the push-away and pull-back cycle described above, BPDer relationships are notorious for having numerous breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. 



> It's very frustrating and being a 'thinker' I'm over thinking when I should stop the no contact.


If she is a BPDer, your problem is not being a "thinker" but, rather, being a "fixer." With a healthy spouse, being a fixer and caregiver can be a valuable asset. With a BPDer, however, it puts you in the predicament of trying to achieve the impossible: trying to fix a situation -- i.e., your W's emotional immaturity -- that only SHE can fix but refuses to do. What is required is years of intensive therapy to teach her the emotional skills she had no opportunity to learn in childhood.



> Her parents, who I despise, will be laying it on thick to brain wash her.... It's almost like a cult how they treat her mind.


A recent large-scale study found that 70% of BPDers report they were abandoned or emotionally abused in childhood.



> She's been taught to think she can never be in the wrong and that she is better than everyone.


Perhaps so. Yet, if she is a BPDer, that is not what she learned. Rather, she has such low self esteem that she simply cannot tolerate the pain of knowing she is sometimes wrong and mistaken. A BPDer typically will not take responsibility for her own bad choices and bad behaviors. Due to her low self esteem, the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. 

This low self esteem can arise from being abandoned or abused in early childhood. It also can arise from "being spoiled" in childhood. When parents spoil a child by repeatedly doing things for the child, the message they are sending is "We are doing this for you because you are incapable of doing it correctly." This destructive message is invalidating to the child.



> She's waiting for counselling but in the good old UK it takes time for a referral.


Believer, if she really does exhibit strong BPD traits, a counselor is unlikely to tell her the name of her disorder. This information usually is withheld from high-functioning BPDers for their own protection. I therefore suggest that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your two children are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

I caution that BPD is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. The main reason for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion -- and help you decide what it is that your children are having to deal with.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join @*Farside* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Believer.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

BiL..... listen to Uptown..... he knows his craft very well. BiL both parties have a part in

the downward spiral of a M. It is never 100 / 0 nor exactly 50 / 50. Somewhere in the middle.

Your job should be to work on yourself, to improve yourself, maybe stop drinking all together, and 

OWN your POS tendencies. Own your part in the M going south. It does not matter one iota 

if your W does or not. That is NOT your responsibility. That is on HER. This merry-go-round

is not going to stop. Do you want to live this way for the next 20 years? I'd hope not.

Follow FSJs advice on doing some detective work about her phone. Read up on Weightlifter's 

Evidence blog on ways to discover if there is a EA or PA going on. 

I have ADHD and autism so trust me..... we can be hard to live with at times. Your W knew this

going in, there were no surprises. Any time things do not go her way, she runs to her parents... Why?

Must be nice to be around 40 and run to my parents and get rewarded by it with gifts.

If my parents would entice me with my favorite things when I was married, hell I'd move back home

every three months (just kidding). 

Her parents are enabling her behavior. 
What was her previous M like.... why did they D?
What was her childhood like?
Has she ever addressed her anxiety issues in the past?

Set a date where if there is no contact, inform her you are going to start the paperwork for a D.

Even if there is no EA or PA, this is no way to live. Your young daughter is watching all this.

This is not a good example for her father to set for her when she becomes an adult. 

At first glace, I would start the D process immediately. Follow through with it. If you want to stay in

this merry-go-round, do so as roommates.

As for the drinking..... if you have problems controlling it, it is likely controlling you. Stop drinking 100%.

If you can drink in moderation..... do so. But cut back a bit while this dark cloud is over you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You say she loves you, but has said she's done. The reality is that love is not and never has been enough.

You are an alcoholic. Your son has done something so heinous you can't mention it here. She had valid reasons to end the marriage. Let her go in peace. 

Also, I don't know about the UK, but here recovering alcoholics are advised to stay single and work on themselves for AT LEAST a year after sobriety before getting involved in a relationship. The reason is to let brain chemistry rebalance so the recovering alcoholic can make clear headed decisions.


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