# Day 1 of seperation



## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

So today I found out my wife is going to leave me. She was going to have papers served but we ended up talking about it. She already contacted a lawyer to start the process. After talking for 6 hours I convinced her we should have a trial separation of 6 months.

Recently we've bought a house and we've been getting into fights and something happened that made me think she was cheating on me. I over reacted but I never did anything to to show a trace of violence. I over reacted by having shouting matches and then going overboard to save the marriage.
We've come close twice before to ending it. The first time she felt like I didnt care about the relationship but I had already bought a wedding ring. When she dropped that bomb on me I showed her the ring. The second time she said that it felt like a loveless marriage. I'm not perfect and a lot of it was my fault. I didnt pay attention to her and let the marriage deteriorate. Even after things worked out we would go thru short spells of deterioration.

This time she told me that she has is tired of telling herself that she loves me. She said there were long periods where she was happy but things came "full circle". I was trying to fix things but she says that we're not right for each other, that our relationship is toxic (even compliments causes fights), but she stressed that she was tired of not knowing who she is.
I can't say that there were periods that I didnt want a divorce (couple weeks max) as well but something would change and things for me would change. I'm upset that this is the 3rd time shes told me she wanted to leave. The first time I was expecting it but the ring saved it. The last time I was able to show her how I felt. This time she said that we're just too different for each other and she doesnt know who she is. I changed who I was before by being more touchy but she said that its not fair to me that I change how I am to please her.

After talking things over, she said that she's felt like she was convincing herself for the last two years that we were just in love with the idea of the happy marriage we had but lacked that spark we had when we were younger. She said it took all her efforts and we were just able to patch things up but never make them truly like a story book marriage. While talking we were able to actually laugh and joke and discuss things. The fact that were honest and not holding anything back opened a lot of doors that we never noticed before. I felt that if we BOTH were honest with each other the entire time things would be different. I dont think we actually ever been more honest with what we want in a relationship or how we felt about life.

We've both been in ruts in our life. I'm tired of being "stuck" in routines. I want to take her and go on vacations and spend the weekend out of the house doing something new but our conflicting work schedules and the fact that one or the other is just tired. She said that she wants to have someone who she could laugh and joke with and spend time living life with. We both want the same thing but she doesnt think we could do it together.

I asked for a trial separation instead of a final divorce. She was against it cause she didnt want to string me along for another 6 months. After I explained that I want the 6 months for both of us to figure out who we are and want we want/need she agreed. She said that she wasnt planning on using this six months to take a break and then come back. I said worst case I want her back but she doesnt want me back, medium case I dont want her back but she wants me back (I said this was medium cause I didnt want to push the topic) or we both figure out that it wont work, and best case we realize that we want each other and start slowly dating instead of resuming the marriage.

The rules are she get to stay in the house and I stay with family or friends until I can find something. I dont want to get an apartment unless they can do 6 months leases until we are for sure of everything. Our son visitation is every other weekend but with 24 hour notice I can request to see him. I dont pay any bills such as car insurance or the phones expect anything our son needs. She will get roommates to cover the cost of the house and other bills. We only contact each other in emergencies or in regards to our son. No dating cause we actually need to reflect on ourselves and having someone else in the picture would be unfair. We didnt discuss getting a marriage or family counselor during this process but I think we should. 

Tomorrow we have our final talk before we start the separation. I'm posting this cause I dont know what to think. For some reason I can't cry or get angry. I feel nothing but a giant weight on my chest while I smoke a pack. Can't eat and dont know if I can sleep. I can't ask for help or internet hugs but I do ask for thoughts.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Well its sounds like you've done some fence sitting yourself, so its time to really sit and think about what you want? marriage or divorce.

If its the marriage, it sounds like you really need to work on your issues: communication at the very least. Use this time to reflect on change. Don't discount how she feels, its real to her. 

You've been given a gift, the gift of time. Use it or lose it.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

I knew before all of this I want her. Not the idea of her or a marriage but just her. There is no doubt in my mind. I fear that she just has no doubt in her mind that she doesnt want me but I'm slowly accepting it. 

I know we both have communication issues and I want to work on them. I just dont know how to when we're doing this trial separation. I want to bring up going thru family counseling tomorrow during. I think/hope it'll help us as a family, us as a couple, her issues, and my issues. Any thoughts? 

The gift of time is time apart. Is that a blessing or not?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you both escalate convos into fights or more one than the other. Do your families fight , I.e. is this handed down behavior?


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Do you both escalate convos into fights or more one than the other. Do your families fight , I.e. is this handed down behavior?


I will admit, more often than not the fights have been me. I have this need to fix stuff while she is more passive aggressive and will not bring things up.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Do you both escalate convos into fights or more one than the other. Do your families fight , I.e. is this handed down behavior?


Concerning family fights.....Her parents are divorced and had a nasty divorce. I think that is a factor in her avoiding confrontation. My parents had a divorce as well but it was quick and clean.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

The gift of time apart is a gift if your using your time wisely. Its important that your honest with yourself first, what are you doing wrong, or could be doing better. Address those issues for yourself.

Become a better you, become the spouse she'd be crazy to leave. Listen to what she's saying, she's telling you whats wrong. When your having a conversation, always have going in your mind "Is what i'm about to say gonna make things worse".

If your talks always escalate, then your both retaliating. Its important that you end that cycle. You both don't think your being heard, but your also both not listening to each other. Both your emotions are raw/real. Don't downplay how she feels, don't rug sweep issues. Find a constructive compromise. If your both yelling its cause one of you wants to win and be heard, its not a contest, don't score keep. Sounds like your both doing it a bit. But you can only control your half of the chat, so work on your input.

None of us know what your like, only you do, so its important that your honest in your own assessment. Its important that you own up to your half of the mistakes, you cant control her or what she's thinking. So work on yourself.

Don't bring up any talk of the marriage or relationship, give her some time. DO NOT ask to go to MC, as a WAS will tend to use it as proof the marriage is over, not work on the issues. When it becomes her idea to go to MC, then ok, until then no way!!!

Take care of yourself, make sure your eating/sleeping, join a gym, pick up some hobbies, go out with friends, keep your mind busy.

Follow these rules: 

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

list from divorcebusting.com : Credit to Sandi, these are sandi's 37 rules.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

I"m sorry but can you clear up some acronyms? Not sure what WAS is. 


Thumper said:


> Don't bring up any talk of the marriage or relationship, give her some time. DO NOT ask to go to MC, as a WAS will tend to use it as proof the marriage is over, not work on the issues. !


That list is helpful and I think a lot of it will help. Some of it will be really difficult. My first fear is that walking away will only extend our distance but I know it has to be done. Not only for our relationship but our me as well. 

I do think we need some sort of counseling if not for us then for us to make sure our son is coping well. He's only 5 and slightly autistic. I know him seeing changes will cause some stress. At a previous job that required a lot of travel, he would say "where is daddy, am I a bad boy?". Its stuff like that I want to make sure doesn't happen.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

WAS = Walk Away Spouse

The list is for interactions with your wife, not your children/child. Its important that right now you be the best parent you can be, and your interactions with your wife and child be positive. You are allowed daily contact with your spouse, but keep the convo about your kid(s) only!

Of course its your wife, and you know her better than any of us. I'm just letting you know that %99 of the time this early in a separation, MC is usually a very bad idea, as it can be taken as pressure on her to make things work. Right now, im sorry I know it hurts, she DOES NOT want to work on the marriage. That's why working on you, making changes, giving it time/space can take the divorce off the table. She needs to see your changes, over and over and over again, not be told your changing. If she trusted that you could change, you wouldn't be living somewhere else right now.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Thumper said:


> WAS = Walk Away Spouse


Duh... sorry didnt click. It was nearly impossible to google WAS divorce acronym.


Thumper said:


> The list is for interactions with your wife, not your children/child. Its important that right now you be the best parent you can be, and your interactions with your wife and child be positive. You are allowed daily contact with your spouse, but keep the convo about your kid(s) only!


This is really the main goal. Slowly I'm starting to accept both possibilities but my opinion about my son wont change. I need to make sure we can do anything we can beside a loveless marriage to make things they can possibly be. She's living in our house so he doesnt have to move again (we just moved in a short time ago) and so he doesnt have to change kindergarten schools. I'm debating about leaving certain belongings of mine so he doesnt feel an "empty" household like the TV and the media PC which is how he watches his favorite movies. 


Thumper said:


> Of course its your wife, and you know her better than any of us. I'm just letting you know that %99 of the time this early in a separation, MC is usually a very bad idea, as it can be taken as pressure on her to make things work. Right now, im sorry I know it hurts, she DOES NOT want to work on the marriage. That's why working on you, making changes, giving it time/space can take the divorce off the table. She needs to see your changes, over and over and over again, not be told your changing. If she trusted that you could change, you wouldn't be living somewhere else right now.


This is a hard thing for me to accept but I understand and agree with what you're saying. I hope I can commit to not bringing it up.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

So....what happened that made you accuse her of cheating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I highly recommend a couple of books:

The first is 5 love languages, it can help you fix a loveless marriage by helping you understand your wife a little bit better. Even help your wife understand you better. Its an excellent read, and can help even the best of marriages.

The second is a book called Divorce Remedy, it can help you with goals, how do deal with interactions with your wife and child. Take the pressure off the marriage. This book is famous for saving even the worst marriages, and turning them around. A MUST read.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> So....what happened that made you accuse her of cheating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We fought and I eventually stopped fighting with her about it. It eventually ended up me throwing it in her face followed by apologizing for not trusting her and over reacting (smothering) to try to make it up to her.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Thumper said:


> I highly recommend a couple of books:
> 
> The first is 5 love languages, it can help you fix a loveless marriage by helping you understand your wife a little bit better. Even help your wife understand you better. Its an excellent read, and can help even the best of marriages.
> 
> The second is a book called Divorce Remedy, it can help you with goals, how do deal with interactions with your wife and child. Take the pressure off the marriage. This book is famous for saving even the worst marriages, and turning them around. A MUST read.


Thanks. I'll def look into them. This is a loaded question. Do you think I should read these while she only agreed to a trial separation when she originally wanted a divorce? I want things to work out but I know how much convening it took to even agree to a trial separation.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I'm sorry you're going through this. Your marriage sounds a lot like mine. You would be considered a rookie in the mindf*** department. Based on what you've written, your relationship with your wife has a toxic nature. It's easy for others to tell you to do this or do that. Unfortunately, it seldom works in dysfunctional dynamics that such marriages are made of.

You're in for a long period of extremely harsh emotional roller coasters. There's little you can do at first as your brain's addiction to the daily hurt of your marriage will block you from making logical decisions. Over a few weeks, the addiction will start to see some opposition by your brain's defense system. This means war inside your head. Besides feeling up and down, there's literally not much you can do. It's the process of healing.

Your wife is most likely infatuated by the idea of an ideal relationship that she sees herself in. It's possible that she's attempting to bring life to that ideal world by engaging in an affair. Regardless, it's a fog that will lift over-time.

There are things you can do to make sure you stay on the right path, but I don't think you've even reached the 'helpless' stage of separation yet. Make sure you don't stray too far off this forum. Many people develop physical symptoms due to separation anxiety. It's important for you to write about your days and seek advice here. 

First thing is first: DO NOT CONTACT YOUR WIFE until you're armed with the knowledge that is needed to deal with a walk-away wife. Post a few more replies so we can see where you stand mentally.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this. Your marriage sounds a lot like mine. You would be considered a rookie in the mindf*** department. Based on what you've written, your relationship with your wife has a toxic nature. It's easy for others to tell you to do this or do that. Unfortunately, it seldom works in dysfunctional dynamics that such marriages are made of.


 I'm sorry to hear that you're going or went thru the same thing I did. Are you past this stage yet or going thru it? 



synthetic said:


> Your wife is most likely infatuated by the idea of an ideal relationship that she sees herself in. It's possible that she's attempting to bring life to that ideal world by engaging in an affair. Regardless, it's a fog that will lift over-time.


Its a few factors that she's lost with. I know that she feels like she lost her social life and her sense of self. I do believe she hasnt started an affair but its hard to keep those bad thoughts out of my head. 



synthetic said:


> There are things you can do to make sure you stay on the right path, but I don't think you've even reached the 'helpless' stage of separation yet. Make sure you don't stray too far off this forum. Many people develop physical symptoms due to separation anxiety. It's important for you to write about your days and seek advice here.


I'm not able to eat or sleep. I've had 1 slice of pizza that I forced down and only 3 hours of sleep. Honestly I really don't have anybody to talk to except you all here. This fact makes me feel even more "lost". I havent talked to any family or friends about anything. The only person who just thinks we're having a fight is a buddy that I asked to stay at his place for a day or two. He's not able to have me stay for anything longer than that so I didnt ask or tell him. This buddy isnt the best with talking about problems so I couldnt even tell him the truth if I wanted to.



synthetic said:


> First thing is first: DO NOT CONTACT YOUR WIFE until you're armed with the knowledge that is needed to deal with a walk-away wife. Post a few more replies so we can see where you stand mentally.


Can you explain more? We're supposed to meet today to discuss the terms of our trial separation. I"m so lost cause I'm having diff things to say in my mind. I know I shouldnt ask to just get back together but thats what I want. I know that I shouldnt ask for family counseling but I'm worried that 6 months apart without any talking will just push us further apart. I have done nothing but google trial separation, relationship advice, what to do when she says "i dont love you anymore", etc, etc. 

I really want to sit her down and sincerly ask her "You want a best friend that couldnt stand to be apart from and who just gets you but you spent hours upon hours talking to your friends and family about why it wont work instead of talking to me. After our last talk things opened up for both of us. Can you whole heartidly tell me that you couldnt imagine the tiniest possibly that our marriage wouldnt be this dream you wanted if you would have spent that time talking to me? 

Please any advice would help.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I will admit, more often than not the fights have been me. I have this need to fix stuff while she is more passive aggressive and will not bring things up.


Then you need to go to anger management counseling. You are putting her through the wringer and she can't take it anymore.

What you will probably find is that you have unknowingly been starting fights on purpose. The reason is that anger gives you a jolt of adrenalin and its just like getting a hit of a drug. Its another addiction and has to be treated as such. Many couples both do this. They think its always the other spouse.

You may be able to save this if you hurry into counseling and explain it to your wife who doesn't want to be a punching bag.

Google ..........anger and adrenalin


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Then you need to go to anger management counseling. You are putting her through the wringer and she can't take it anymore.
> 
> What you will probably find is that you have unknowingly been starting fights on purpose. The reason is that anger gives you a jolt of adrenalin and its just like getting a hit of a drug. Its another addiction and has to be treated as such. Many couples both do this. They think its always the other spouse.
> 
> ...


I agree that I put her through the wringer. The fights rarely get into screaming matches. I rationalize starting a fight is cause I feel she wont open up and tell the truth unless there is anger or tears on her side. Take it for whats its worth but I dont want or like the thought of me being an anger junkie who lashes out at people. I will ask her if she thinks I need anger management courses. If she says yes I will let the counselor know. I plan on seeking professional help regardless.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Don't ask your wife if you need anger management. Listen, I know how you feel and understand that you want your marriage back (for now). I'm certain you and your wife both inflicted painful abuse on each other. You definitely sound like you have developed resentments to the point of being abusive. I bet in your mind you are highly critical of your wife and have treated her somewhat unfairly at times. Unfortunately, that is no longer the topic of your life. It's your wife's decision to end this marriage. Nothing tops that. Don't lose perspective.

I would do whatever possible to cancel the meeting with your wife. You're not in a state to agree or disagree with anything right now. You are extremely codependent (look up the term). You're an addict. You need help. Your wife's demands are now at the bottom of your to do list. 

If you want to feel stronger and get yourself ready to deal with this painful roller coaster, you need to sabotage your mind's desperate attempts and listen to the advice given to you by the adult part of your brain. The following list was compiled for people with walkaway wives. You have a lot of learning to do, and until you learn these things, attempting to communicate with your wife will be a constant source of pain and anxiety. What do you want to do? Let anxiety destroy you or take control of your life? 

Follow these commandments and do not regress. Every item is there for a reason. If you can't implement any of them, list it here and we'll discuss it until one of us is convinced. 

Cancel your meeting with your wife. Don't talk to her right now.

Follow the commandments:

*Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:

1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*

2. Follow the following rules: *The 180 degree rules*

3. Read this short book in the next 24 hours: *No More Mr. Nice Guy
* 
4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but *sweat the pain of anxiety out*. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night. 

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: *DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?*

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend time with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think you should ask her that. That puts the onus on her. You just said you start fights to get a response. That's all you and she may be avoiding communicating with you knowing she is just going to end up in a fight.

A woman close to me starts a fight anytime the person she is talking to says something she disagrees with. It looks like insecurity to me. However, I heard her going off on her husband one time. I thought she was madder than hell. But when I looked over at her, instead of looking angry, she was smiling. I don't think she even realized she was enjoying bashing her husband. From what I've seen, most of her family is like that.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> I'm certain you and your wife both inflicted painful abuse on each other. You definitely sound like you have developed resentments to the point of being abusive. I bet in your mind you are highly critical of your wife and have treated her somewhat unfairly at times. Unfortunately, that is no longer the topic of your life. It's your wife's decision to end this marriage. Nothing tops that. Don't lose perspective.


This is very difficult to accept now. I can see the emotional abuse we did to each other and it really hurts. I know its my wife decision but I can't help but feel if I dont try then I'll lose it all. I dont expect to tomorrow we'll start living together again and pretend it never happened but I just want to see a small glimmer of a chance. 



synthetic said:


> I would do whatever possible to cancel the meeting with your wife. You're not in a state to agree or disagree with anything right now. You are extremely codependent (look up the term). You're an addict. You need help. Your wife's demands are now at the bottom of your to do list.


Maybe I can just email her a list of demands concerning visitation rights for our son and such.



synthetic said:


> If you want to feel stronger and get yourself ready to deal with this painful roller coaster, you need to sabotage your mind's desperate attempts and listen to the advice given to you by the adult part of your brain. The following list was compiled for people with walkaway wives. You have a lot of learning to do, and until you learn these things, attempting to communicate with your wife will be a constant source of pain and anxiety. What do you want to do? Let anxiety destroy you or take control of your life?


 I'm reading your list and I'm unsure of when to know I'll be ready to go out and meet new people and such. I physically feel so horrible now I dont think i would be good company and would just walk around like a crying zombie.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> This is very difficult to accept now. I can see the emotional abuse we did to each other and it really hurts. I know its my wife decision but I can't help but feel if I dont try then I'll lose it all. I dont expect to tomorrow we'll start living together again and pretend it never happened but I just want to see a small glimmer of a chance.


There's more than a small glimmer of a chance if you follow the commandments. In fact, it's your only shot at attracting your wife back.



> Maybe I can just email her a list of demands concerning visitation rights for our son and such.


Wait it out a few days. Wait. Your son is not going anywhere. He only has one father and that is you. No one is going to take that away from you. As long as you're assured of his safety and well-being in his mother's care, use this opportunity to gain strength.




> I'm reading your list and I'm unsure of when to know I'll be ready to go out and meet new people and such. I physically feel so horrible now I dont think i would be good company and would just walk around like a crying zombie.


Your mind is playing games with you. The commandment specifically says you're not looking for romance. Your codependent mind currently thinks it's a sin for you to live life like a healthy person. 

It's okay to be a crying zombie. In fact, that's what you will be at times. You are a lovable human being even in your 'crying zombie' state. You need to understand that. 

Read the links in the commandments. Why haven't you started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yet? It's written for you. read it.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> There's more than a small glimmer of a chance if you follow the commandments. In fact, it's your only shot at attracting your wife back.


I'm speechless. Reading the list again and again forcing myself to believe it is helping now. I know its temporary but at least its a moment I'm at ease. 



synthetic said:


> Read the links in the commandments. Why haven't you started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yet? It's written for you. read it.


I read thru a good part of it last night but couldnt finish it due to my ADHD in this situation. I'm about halfway thru chapter two now. The other book I'm reading is Divorce Remedy -The Proven Seven Step Program for Saving Your Marriage.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Thinking it over, in a month or so I might take a trip up north to where the rest of my team works. It might be a nice temporary change of scenery and it'll be nice to see people I work with face to face. I work remotely and being in an office might be nice.

I do want to say thank you for the talk. Like I said earlier, I really have nobody to talk to. My friends and family just wouldnt understand the situation and present a fair unbiased opinion.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I work remotely too, and can relate to your thinking.

There's a certain level of anonymity and comfort involved with online talks that can't be replicated in family or friendship dynamics. It's good that you brought your story here. In a few months you'll realize what a huge difference this forum has made in your life.

I've gone through what you're going through many times with my wife. I'm going through it, yet again, and I think this time I will have the strength to finally end things as I no longer possess the passion nor the energy to save my marriage. Dysfunctional relationships tend to be very tiring. I'm 32 and feel like a 50 year old. In my case, it's just doesn't seem like a good idea to put myself through this torture again. My wife had her many chances and simply destroyed everything. I still love her a lot, but what can I say? I deserve better.

You will probably realize the same thing at some point in the future, but I know that will not happen until you have gained your individuality back. It's a very good idea for you to study your childhood and how your parents made you the person you are. You may begin to resent your parents for failing at bringing up a more balanced, more confident and less dependent son. That's normal. It's a stage. It empowers you to be aware of your insecurities and eventually overcome them. It's extremely liberating.

If you follow the commandments and stay the course, your wife will most likely come back and present herself as an option to you. It's important to recognize that at that point, she's just an option, not the ultimate prize. Until then, work on yourself. No one is worth more than you are to yourself. No one.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> I work remotely too, and can relate to your thinking.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Its comforting that someone my age has gone thru something I've been thru 3 times already. I'm tired of being told "everything is fine" to find out I she was planning on leaving or this time going to have divorce papers served to me. Each time hurt and I said I was willing to fix the issue. Last time she said she would tell me if things werent great and not confide in her friends and family. This is the 2nd time she's done it and I worked hard to provide her with the dream life that she wanted, a husband who cares for her deeply, a intelligent, kind, caring, and all around great child, a nice house, and a dog. With all my faults I bring to the table nobody can deny that I tried incredibly hard to make her happy. This might due to the roller coaster but I'm seriously debating "whats the point". I tell myself she is but then I come back to that question again. 


synthetic said:


> You will probably realize the same thing at some point in the future, but I know that will not happen until you have gained your individuality back. It's a very good idea for you to study your childhood and how your parents made you the person you are. You may begin to resent your parents for failing at bringing up a more balanced, more confident and less dependent son. That's normal. It's a stage. It empowers you to be aware of your insecurities and eventually overcome them. It's extremely liberating.


I can't blame my mother anymore for any of my personal issues. Years of that thought process only created more resentment and anger. I learned sometime ago to just accept the fact that she wasnt perfect and she made some mistakes and my focus is to just be the best father I can be by learning from other's triumphs and mistakes. 



synthetic said:


> If you follow the commandments and stay the course, your wife will most likely come back and present herself as an option to you. It's important to recognize that at that point, she's just an option, not the ultimate prize. Until then, work on yourself. No one is worth more than you are to yourself. No one.


I honestly believed that my family (including her) were more important than my own life. I see now that this isnt healthy in a marriage but I know it'll be sometime before I truly accept and mean it. 
To hear that she may come back but is also just option,is encouraging but also liberating. I'm clinging onto a lot of history and my strong moral sense (wedding vows). At this point if she is just an option then it will take a lot from her to have me open up like when we first got together.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> So today I found out my wife is going to leave me. She was going to have papers served but we ended up talking about it. She already contacted a lawyer to start the process.


Obviously she isn't comfortable talking to you about anything. No discussion, she goes to an attorney files papers and none of this was discussed prior. She's either afraid of you or she's just done. 



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I over reacted but I never did anything to to show a trace of violence.


You didn't "show a trace of violence". What does that even mean? If you hit someone but it doesn't leave a mark, you were still physically abusive. It's not about the "evidence".



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> When she dropped that bomb on me I showed her the ring.
> 
> The first time I was expecting it but the ring saved it.


The ring didn't "save" anything. She didn't want to marry you. You pressured her, guilted her. "I know you don't want to get married but look I bought you this expensive ring!". So you get married, for the wrong reasons, and you're wondering why things crashed and burned.

She knows you're manipulative and that's why she went and saw the attorney and prepared the motion to file without talking to you about it first. I bet she's fuming that she allowed you to once again change her mind. 



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I changed who I was before by being more touchy but she said that its not fair to me that I change how I am to please her.


You slightly modified your "behavior" you didn't change who you are. If you're going to change, that takes years, if it happens at all. When she says "it's not fair that you change to please her' what she's really saying is "you're never going to change, you are who you are" and she's probably right. 



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I said worst case I want her back but she doesnt want me back, medium case I dont want her back but she wants me back


This is just plain weird. Sort of selfish too. It's "worst case" if she doesn't want you back, but not as bad if she does and you don't? Why even say something like that- what's the point?



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> We didnt discuss getting a marriage or family counselor during this process but I think we should.


Ya think? You've got no plan other than to move out and go no contact with each other. That won't do anything but push you further apart and if she's having an affair, it makes it that much easier for her. 



JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I feel nothing but a giant weight on my chest while I smoke a pack.


That's because the smoke is burning your lungs.

You want to show her you've changed? Do something really radical like quitting smoking.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Obviously she isn't comfortable talking to you about anything. No discussion, she goes to an attorney files papers and none of this was discussed prior. She's either afraid of you or she's just done.


She said it was both. She told me I've been so high strung lately that she wasnt sure how I would react and she said that after thinking it over for a while she was done. 




lenzi said:


> You didn't "show a trace of violence". What does that even mean? If you hit someone but it doesn't leave a mark, you were still physically abusive. It's not about the "evidence".


I wanted to convey the message I was angry and yelling but I never did anything violent towards her or any intimate objects such as hitting the wall or anything. I have never hit a women before and never will. The last time I hit an object in anger was when I was 16 fighting with my mom.



lenzi said:


> The ring didn't "save" anything. She didn't want to marry you. You pressured her, guilted her. "I know you don't want to get married but look I bought you this expensive ring!". So you get married, for the wrong reasons, and you're wondering why things crashed and burned.


I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. 4 years ago she was having doubts that I didnt care about her or our baby and didnt want a family. She thought I was just stringing things along for covience. In anger I showed her I threw the ring on the bed (not anywhere in her direction) and told her "if I didnt want a family then why did buy this". Marriage was what she we both wanted then.



lenzi said:


> She knows you're manipulative and that's why she went and saw the attorney and prepared the motion to file without talking to you about it first. I bet she's fuming that she allowed you to once again change her mind.


You're right about me being manipulative. I've done so in the past. I know that when things worry me I can become high strung and controlling.



lenzi said:


> You slightly modified your "behavior" you didn't change who you are. If you're going to change, that takes years, if it happens at all. When she says "it's not fair that you change to please her' what she's really saying is "you're never going to change, you are who you are" and she's probably right.


This was years in the making not overnight. You might be right and I only modified my behavior slightly. 



lenzi said:


> This is just plain weird. Sort of selfish too. It's "worst case" if she doesn't want you back, but not as bad if she does and you don't? Why even say something like that- what's the point?


I worded it this way cause she was adamant about it just ending and not having a trial separation. She kept reminding me over and over again that she was wasnt looking for a break but for it to end. I said this was medium cause I didnt want to push the topic



lenzi said:


> Ya think? You've got no plan other than to move out and go no contact with each other. That won't do anything but push you further apart and if she's having an affair, it makes it that much easier for her.


Honestly we both need space. I want nothing more then to have us resume a happy marriage now but I know thats not possible with everything going on for her. I read the 180 rules and most of them make sense. I want to do marriage counseling now and talk things thru.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> In anger I showed her I threw the ring on the bed (not anywhere in her direction) and told her "if I didnt want a family then why did buy this".


That's one heck of a proposal.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

lenzi said:


> That's one heck of a proposal.


I have no argument there. It was a mistake that I have to life with the rest of my life.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> 2. Follow the following rules:
> *The 180 degree rules*


One more question, how do you complete the 180 rules (or get her to notice) if you're apart? I'm going to be moving out and we will rarely see each other.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> I have no argument there. It was a mistake that I have to life with the rest of my life.


I don't see it as a mistake.

More like a symptom.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> One more question, how do you complete the 180 rules (or get her to notice) if you're apart? I'm going to be moving out and we will rarely see each other.


You don't complete the 180. The 180 concludes when you're no longer vulnerable to emotional abuse.

Regardless of what happened in the past, your wife is inflicting emotional abuse on you right now, because in your current dynamic, you're like a dependent child who desires attention, care and love, but your wife is purposely denying you that. 

It's not right for you to be that child, but it's normal due to the inevitable codependency that marriage forces upon people. It takes time for this codependency to subside. Until then, the 180 is a tool for you to protect your fragile mind against abuse. If your vulnerability gets prolonged, it's important for you to seek professional help. 

I strongly suggest you avoid diving deep into the past and what you could've done to save your marriage. This is not the time. You will eventually own up to your part in the demise of your marriage and forgive yourself. Right now, guilt is your worst enemy. Self-inflicted guilt is downright dangerous in your state of mind. It can lead to suicidal thoughts (it did for me and quite a few others here). Avoid guilt at all costs for the time being and seek professional help. Your anxiety is normal, but don't forget that it's taking a toll on your health and should be eliminated as soon as possible.

If you don't appreciate certain types of responses, or feel that they're detrimental to your healing, feel free to reject them. No caring person should be telling you to feel guilty about your wife's actions right now. If you notice it, shut it down. You need to. It's a matter of survival.

In your situation, it's completely normal to feel betrayed, angry and confused. It's normal to wish for a submissive wife who respects you. You're a man, and that's your instinct. Don't fight it. Love it. Feel good about being a man. Feel good about being strong. Demand of yourself to be seeking respectful, feminine and appropriately submissive female partners in the future. Then you'll slowly realize that your wife is not what you really desire. That feeling is your best friend until you're level-headed enough to make logical decisions.

BE A MAN and BE PROUD OF IT.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> One more question, how do you complete the 180 rules (or get her to notice) if you're apart? I'm going to be moving out and we will rarely see each other.


The 180 is for forgeting your wife and moving on. As a matter of fact, the lady that wrote it, DIVORCE BUSTERS website, warns that it most likely will assure divorce. A small percentage of women are attracted by the rejection of the 180, as in, they may want what they can't have.

You say and give examples of anger issues and admit she is afraid of you.

That's what you need to focus on and you don't have a lot of time. If you give a big list of demands etc. You can stick a fork in your marriage.


Your in a hole, quit digging.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> The 180 is for forgeting your wife and moving on. As a matter of fact, the lady that wrote it, DIVORCE BUSTERS website, warns that it most likely will assure divorce. A small percentage of women are attracted by the rejection of the 180, as in, they may want what they can't have.


That was my initial reaction but I'm still thinking it wouldnt hurt to emotionally step back and not seem so dependent. I think I will complete the list with a grain of salt. 


Chaparral said:


> You say and give examples of anger issues and admit she is afraid of you.
> 
> That's what you need to focus on and you don't have a lot of time. If you give a big list of demands etc. You can stick a fork in your marriage.
> 
> ...


I think we're over the anger issues now. I didnt freak out when she dropped the news on me and for the first time in a long time we actually had a heartfelt talk that had tears, laughter, and everything in between. We got upset but never resorted to yelling or even raising our voices. We were both calm and lucid. I did have a talk with a family member who talked to her and she said that it was a good talk. 

I agree that I do have a lot to work on and well as her. 
If I could make any requests it would be for us to just talk about doing family counseling. I know we would talk about us as a couple but I also want to talk about our son and our personal issues.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you have anger issues, and I'm not saying you do, a few decent conversations o not mean a thing.

Look up noas55 thread and see if his wife sounds like your s.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

In some ways it does but he's so ambiguous it could fit into almost any situation. The main diff is that there is no other person she confides in outside of her normal circle of friends and family...

Edit:
The more I read the more I see ourselves. More to come. The main diff i see now is that she's not willing to give it a chance unlike noas55's wife/ex-wife. 

I had to plead/talk her into a trial sep. I used the word plead cause I dont feel that I did but it may came off to everybody else.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Update
My wife and I agreed to talk yesterday before I posted everything. I was a mess but I got to clear my head before we talked. I walked in with the plan of following the 180 and strictly focusing on our son. We ended up clearing a lot of stuff up and negotiated the visitation rules. 

Now here is the strange part. We ended up taking a short break from talking about everything to play with my son. Next thing I know we're talking about him and then some other random topics. This went on for about a good 6 hours. We talked about heavy metal vs rap, about work, about friends, movies, etc. Mostly about things we enjoy or dont enjoy. The only thing that stopped us from talking was us getting dinner.

We watched a movie and then went to bed. I gave her a hug goodnite after telling her it was a great nite. I went outside to get a smoke and when I came back she was on the stairways looking down on the couch. She asked if I wanted to sleep on the bed while she slept on the couch. I declined and that was it. It was nice cause she went into the bedroom, got changed, and then came out to talk to me before going to bed. 

Not sure if that was a good sign or just her being nice. This morning we saw each other, I smiled at her and she waved. She left for work without saying anything to me. 

Now I'm running thru so many emotions. I still feel upset at the thought of her leaving, I feel this strange small hope that she might be confused if leaving is the right thing, and then its back to being hurt. 

I found a place to stay in the future but it wont be ready for 3 weeks. I'm thinking I need to take a step back from wanting to ask to fix things and just focus on the good conversation if we do end up talking tonight. Basically following the 180. 

I do plan on asking if she enjoyed last night and if we could possibly do it again soon and maybe even just start dating once a month and then talk things over at the end of the 6 months.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> Now I'm running thru so many emotions. I still feel upset at the thought of her leaving, I feel this strange small hope that she might be confused if leaving is the right thing, and then its back to being hurt.


And that my friend is how you end up being very unattractive. Nothing is less attractive than a man in limbo. There is absolutely no chance of your wife rethinking her decision if she finds a new comfort zone in keeping you confused. And believe me, she already knows she's in control.

Surprise her by taking control of your own life. Make her feel completely irrelevant. Give her a taste of her own medicine. Then watch her lose sleep over you. It has happened so many times on this forum, it should be a sticky 

Unless you truly become a mysterious, attractive and detached man, there's no incentive for your wife to change her path. Shut down the avenues she has to your heart. She will definitely try to find new ones. Make yourself inaccessible and hard to figure out. She will fight it.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You seem to gloss over the possibility your wife is having an affair. This is extremely important. It changes how you deal with this significantly. 

Care to share with us what you have seen that points to an affair?

I agree with other posters that you should cancel this meeting tomorrow. You are not ready for this.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> You seem to gloss over the possibility your wife is having an affair. This is extremely important. It changes how you deal with this significantly.
> 
> Care to share with us what you have seen that points to an affair?


I know this sounds really stupid but she swore on our son's life there isnt anyone. This may sound trivial but I do know that she loves our son more than life itself. There just arent any other signs of someone else. I do believe she is lost and wants this time for her but I'm sure if someone came along after our break she wouldnt hesitate. 



Ceegee said:


> I agree with other posters that you should cancel this meeting tomorrow. You are not ready for this.


The meeting happened yesterday so its too late. Yesterday was good but today wasnt so good. No fights but just stressful conversations that come with us separating such as bills and my living arrangements. 

I found a place that I can afford that will allow me the privacy I need plus it isnt in the ghetto. The only problem is that I wont be able to move in for 3-4 weeks.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> Unless you truly become a mysterious, attractive and detached man, there's no incentive for your wife to change her path. Shut down the avenues she has to your heart. She will definitely try to find new ones. Make yourself inaccessible and hard to figure out. She will fight it.


Here is where I'm concerned about this tactic. I know it can help me which I'm wanting to fix that; however, you may need to know about some of the reasons she was unhappy that I didnt mention. She doesnt feel that we talk like best friends do. When we go out we would talk but we had more fun when it was a group of people. Sometimes we would spend the day with small talk and rarely had long conversations. There was a good amount of silence when things where bad. 

So I fear that becoming distant could be a negative. I do think that we both need are distance but to show an emotional distance and to give that sense of "he's moved on" could hurt things. Since she wanted the divorce instead of a separation I think seeing me move on will tell her that she can proceed with the divorce cause I'm ready for it. I think I have to show her that I'm moving on but still and willing to work things out if she WE BOTH can fix the problems. 

The real kicker that she'll be getting a roommate and that person is also in a loveless relationship. She left her GF and came back but they're just going thru the motions. 

I'm worried that them two together will provide a support system that will tell her to "snap out it" during those moments of quiet loneliness. I know that as roommates or just friends it wont make a difference cause they'll have that support either way.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm torn between saying "I can help alleviate some of the financial burden" and the "you wanted this you're own your own" mentality. She can't afford this place on her own.

We just bought this house and its my first house so I feel a sense of pride with it. The other and most important reason is my son. He deserves to be in a house that he can run up and down the stairs when he wants, his own room, a backyard that he can play in, and a drive way that he can color with chalk. 

I know this sounds petty but we've lived in a small condo we rented that had paper walls where we were constantly worried about him making noise. We received complaints when our son was 2-3 about his noise. Forcing a child to not be a kid was rough.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

You need a serious beating my man. I wish you were reachable through this monitor. I would punch some sense into your codependent head.

You think you're the only one with a troubled marriage where silence ruled the house? You think you're the only one whose wife acts like your wife? You think you're the only one feeling absolutely f***ed up? 

I'm not sure if you can access the Private Forum here, but you really need to read my thread. It'll give you an excellent insight into the battle. 



> I'm torn between saying "I can help alleviate some of the financial burden" and the "you wanted this you're own your own" mentality.


Don't be torn. Be absolutely sure that you MUST go with the latter. Give yourself no other choice. Hear it from someone who's been there, done that. The 2nd option yields results. The 1st one costs money and mental health. Choose wisely.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> You need a serious beating my man. I wish you were reachable through this monitor. I would punch some sense into your codependent head.


Hell if you feel that strongly you can yell at me over the phone. 


synthetic said:


> I'm not sure if you can access the Private Forum here, but you really need to read my thread. It'll give you an excellent insight into the battle.


Can I possibly get a link please? 



synthetic said:


> Don't be torn. Be absolutely sure that you MUST go with the latter. Give yourself no other choice. Hear it from someone who's been there, done that. The 2nd option yields results. The 1st one costs money and mental health. Choose wisely.


I know and I plan on keeping the house if things get to the point of no return. We even talked about renting it out and splitting the profit. Hopefully we dont have to talk about it again. 

I can tell you 100% that this isnt about her its about our son. I want our son to have a stable environment while this happening. When I traveled for work my son at 2 frequently would say "when daddy coming home, am I bad boy?" Nothing is more heart wrenching then to hear that he asked that. He got severe separation anxiety when I came home on the weekends. Now that I may get to see him alternating weekends I dont know how he could handle that. I know people here have experienced a similar problem but I'm not sure how many people here have an autistic child going thru something like this. I didnt want to mention this but I want to stress how much I am opposed to him leaving the house. Neither me or my wife picked this out. When my wife and I thought it was a great house, we asked my son if he liked it and he said "yes" after running up and down the stairs with a huge smile on his face. M

y number 1 goal here is tied between saving the marriage and protecting my son. It might get to a point that I can't save the marriage but I will do everything in my power to protect and provide a stable environment my son.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

synthetic said:


> Surprise her by taking control of your own life. Make her feel completely irrelevant. Give her a taste of her own medicine. Then watch her lose sleep over you. It has happened so many times on this forum, it should be a sticky
> 
> Unless you truly become a mysterious, attractive and detached man, there's no incentive for your wife to change her path. Shut down the avenues she has to your heart. She will definitely try to find new ones. Make yourself inaccessible and hard to figure out. She will fight it.


Question, does this work if you're living apart? It sounds like something that only works if you see each other often.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> Question, does this work if you're living apart? It sounds like something that only works if you see each other often.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're being delusional.

Reality is not what you're hoping in your mind. Your wife has ended your marriage. Your marriage is gone. Whatever happens in the future is not going to be a continuation. 

Does this work? What do you mean? Does it fix your marriage? Absolutely not. Is it likely to make your wife curious? Yes. Even if you're living apart? Yes.

Listen man, I went through this exact same phase twice and have read enough about it to kind'a understand how things usually pan out. The chances of you and your wife staying married in the next few years are very very low. If you don't begin to accept that, you'll suffer a lot.

Do I sound harsh? Perhaps. It's because I wasted years of my life not accepting reality. I was just like you. Nothing was going to stand in my way. I was going to save the marriage. I did. So I thought.

The marriage had died years ago because my wife had decided that she didn't want to be married. That's all it takes for a marriage to die. As soon as one party mentions the word 'divorce', the marriage is pretty much dead. Those who reconcile usually fail. Those who don't fail, almost unanimously, agree that their old marriage indeed died. They just found reasons to start a new one (this happens so rarely, it's not even worth considering in most situations).

This is hard to deal with. I totally understand. It sure will affect the rest of your life, and you'll spend a long time recovering, even if you reconcile with your wife. Separation usually brings PTSD symptoms with it. It takes years to deal with the aftershocks. It is very similar to the sudden death of a loved one.

But don't get too sad about what I said. At some point you will realize that the death of your marriage is not necessarily a negative event. At some point you'll be able to have an honest conversation with yourself and admit your own hidden desire for a termination to the dynamic you were involved in. 

For the time being, I can easily understand your desire to get things back to where they were. Do it, but don't even for a second think this will be some sort of an easy project that will start to yield results in a week or two. Brace yourself for months and months of extreme turbulence. Just when you think things have settled down, there will come a storm like never before. You'll get tired. You'll burn out. 

If your wife loves you enough, she'll come to you and stick around, but I already have a feeling she will let you down a few more times before you finally begin to see the reality of your life instead of the fantasy your brain is tricking you with.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Thank you all for giving me hope in myself and a path that possibly fix our future. 

I can rationalize it in my head as so. She's at an age that she wants some freedom. She needs her space to have a sense of independence. She think she wants it but maybe if I give her some space she'll realize how hard it is to be alone. House chores, bills, work, and raising our son will hit her hard when she's alone. With time she'll feel horrible and then miss me, she'll realize that the day we spent talking was great, and how great our marriage could be with the right tools from both parties. She'll see that I'm such a caring person that would never hurt her and treat her like the princess she deserves. I just need to give her space and within the next six months she'll realize that this she was wrong in asking for a divorce but it ended up helping our marriage. 

I can't deny the fact that she doesnt want to get back together. I was the one that begged for the trial separation to delay things for 6 months. We had a good day Saturday but on Sunday I can tell she tried to avoid me in the morning and stayed late at work to not see me. I even cooked dinner for us. I tried to tell her that I understood that she was going thru the same stage I went thru where I thought I needed space but eventually I came back and ended up marrying her which implies that I totally dismisses what she is feeling now. When I had to take care of my own needs I even thought of her. I spent the entire night praying and hoping she would turn around. 

I tried to make her happy and did nothing but hurt me. I have a need to make people happy. I need to be appreciated and loved. I need someone to lean on me as I lean on them. Before I met her I did a lot of drugs and was at the real low point of my life. I started to go back to school and then I eventually met her when I was fast tracked for a successful life. My life now should be perfect. We have a nice house, a sweet intelligent young boy, and a wife that is by my side. However; we're not happy and our marriage was far from good. 

So I need to step back and accept things. This trial might not work. When we come back after six months she might also be bringing the divorce papers with her. I can't give up on her but I can't blindly sit around and wait being crushed and then get crushed again then. At this point I can imagine myself saying "I wont sing it" and having the court appoint us counseling and having that fix it. 

I need to allow myself to cry, feel hurt, and to slowly prepare for things. I need to finish reading no more mr nice guy and michele weiner davis's stuff. I need to get a good pair of headphones and start jogging to drop 15 pounds. I need to occupy and exhaust myself to the point that I fall asleep at night. I need to focus on work cause my job cause I can't afford to lose my job. When the time comes I need to have a good laugh with good people. I need to remember in the future that she doesnt want to hurt me but just wants to be happy. I need to heal myself so I'm not a bitter man that will never be happy in the future with myself and possibly someone else. I need to avoid a rebound relationship. I havent lost track of who I was cause I feel that my personality is dynamic like water but I need to build something better. I need to be there as much as I can for my son. He deserves the best. 

I write this hoping that this change I'll go thru and the change she's going thru will help our marriage. I hope and pray it will work out. Its hard for to me accept the possibility.

Edit: 12:42. So for lunch I went for a 20 min jog. My eyes burned, my legs became weak, and my I felt exhausted. This is the best I felt since this all happened. I know its early but I think I found an way to clear my head and think for myself.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

JustGotDroppedABomshell said:


> Edit: 12:42. So for lunch I went for a 20 min jog. My eyes burned, my legs became weak, and my I felt exhausted. This is the best I felt since this all happened. I know its early but I think I found an way to clear my head and think for myself.


You can't beat a good high energy aerobic workout like jogging to clear your head and get those healthy endorphins circulating.

I make my best decisions when I'm on the treadmill.

Keep at it and you'll get all the good effects without the eyes burning and the legs weak and the exhaustion.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I make my best decisions when I'm on the treadmill.


I might have to do that more. I should get a treadmill, this summer heat was one of the reason I was so lazy to start running sooner.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

So here is the story thus far. I havent talked to her today but I talked with her mom. We didnt only talk about the marriage. We had a long conversation about some stuff in her life, my son's life, and of course whats going on with her daughter and me. 

She did tell me repeatably that our problems are something a lot of people go thru or stuff that can be easily repaired. It was stuff like me going out too much, not trusting her, or not talking to her during the day. 

I blurted out the question "do you think she'll come back". She didnt lie to me and hold back anything. She said simply "you're f'ed". She is too stubborn to listen to reason or other's opinions that don't match her own. She was surprised that she gave it 6 months instead of actually just saying it was too late. She did say "but she might surprise us". I really think that was to not crush me. 

Sitting now thinking it over, I really didnt know my wife. I knew my wife was stubborn but thought she listened to her mom a lot. I'm thinking things over and I also realized that not only did I not trust my wife and I didnt trust her opinion. She had a lot good ideas. Some I listened to and some I didnt. I'm sure she can only see the times that I didnt listen and not to the times I did. How can I clear that up with her?

I'm ready to rebuild myself and I want nothing more to rebuild this relationship. We really need to talk to clear things up. I think I should show her this thread I know its a bad idea to do this now. I'm just hoping that in the future I'll get the chance after we get a good couple months apart. I really am ready to change myself but I'm not doing it for her. 

Now here is a question I have. I know the 180 is rebuilding yourself. I know the 180 is not to get her to notice but I fear that we won't have any contact in the future. I know this 6 months is about space but I'm concerned that this 6 months is an escape and I will be shut out. I told her that I would give up the key to the house and we would only talk about when its time to see my son. I'm worried that she may want to bring it up in the future but we'll never get a chance to see each other to bring it up. Any thoughts on that?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why would you even suggest giving up the key to your house?

Like I said before, the 180 will assure divorce in this situation.

READ MMSLP IN THE LINK BELOW, READ IT TEN YEAR AGO AND FOLLOW THE MAP PLAN IN IT. IT IS NOT A SEX MANUAL!

Also here is a blog that goes with MMSLP Blog | Married Man Sex Life


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, almost every cheater will swear on their children's, parents, etc. grave. It is one of the biggest red flags we see.

Have you checked her text /call usage for a high number being called/texted.

What have you done besides asking her if she was having an affair?


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Why would you even suggest giving up the key to your house?
> Like I said before, the 180 will assure divorce in this situation.


Honestly I fear me driving to the house and sneaking in at random times to check up on things. I fear that behavior isnt healthy so thats why I just eliminated that possibility. 

I'm not ignoring what YOU said. I know this sounds stupid but I thought your advice started out good but then ended up becoming pretty extreme. I went back thru the thread and realized it was your advice at first but then I confused someone else as you. I know I sound like an idiot for not realizing it started out as you then someone else hopping in. 



Chaparral said:


> READ MMSLP IN THE LINK BELOW, READ IT TEN YEAR AGO AND FOLLOW THE MAP PLAN IN IT. IT IS NOT A SEX MANUAL!
> 
> Also here is a blog that goes with MMSLP Blog | Married Man Sex Life


Will this work when I'm not in the house? Remember I'm going to be staying at a friends for 6 months. I fear that by not doing the 180 she would feel smothered when she was asking for some space and wanted her independence and a chance to figure out who she is. 




Chaparral said:


> BTW, almost every cheater will swear on their children's, parents, etc. grave. It is one of the biggest red flags we see.
> 
> Have you checked her text /call usage for a high number being called/texted.
> 
> What have you done besides asking her if she was having an affair?


Thats how I accused my wife of cheating. I got fearful and checked her phone log and realized that I did see quite a higher numbers of text from newer numbers. I thought she was testing the market and was flirting around. I checked her phone and found a few of those messages where actually people from work asking random questions pertaining to work.

Here is the kicker though. I also randomly found her new phone that she was keeping secret.This is also how I found out she was wanting a divorce and was going to serve me papers. There werent any messages about cheating, just the divorce. The only call in the call log was the divorce lawyer she was recommended. I know she could have deleted the cheating messages but if she was to delete those message then she would have deleted the messages about the divorce lawyer.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A burner phone is the biggest red flag of all.

Not deleting the divorce lawyer messages could have been well thought out by her. If you found it, she did not have to confront you.

Does she know you found the burner phone?

Whether or not you get divorced, you need the MMSLP book immediately. It will turn a light on in your head. Unfortunately, males have been indoctrinated over the last few decades to not act like men. Get this book as fast as you can.

After reading a couple thousand threads here you learn the scripts cheaters go by. Whether or not your wife is cheating, she is definitely following the script.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, the best/easiest way to see if she is cheating is to put a 50 dollar var under her car seat with Velcro. They love to talk on the phone in the car where no ne can hear them.

Have you read this thread for new posters? http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> A burner phone is the biggest red flag of all.
> Does she know you found the burner phone?


I had just dropped off my son at school and I usually just head straight to work from there. I broke the lock on our gate the other day and bought a replacement and was planning on fixing it before heading to work. When I came back she was outside getting a smoke and was surprised to see me. I went up to talk to her and then I saw the phone. I snatched it and was screaming asking whos it was. She kept trying to take it back from me and I started freaking out. I then unlocked it and went thru every message. The person she was messaging was her friend and asking for someone to talk thru while she filed for divorce. 

She isnt that manipulative to strategically only leave those messages. I have to back track and say those werent the only messages. There were others such as "hey this is that number we talked about" and such. 



Chaparral said:


> Whether or not you get divorced, you need the MMSLP book immediately. It will turn a light on in your head. Unfortunately, males have been indoctrinated over the last few decades to not act like men. Get this book as fast as you can.
> 
> After reading a couple thousand threads here you learn the scripts cheaters go by. Whether or not your wife is cheating, she is definitely following the script.


I started reading thru it. I can tell it would have helped us when things were starting out bad and will help if we go thru with the divorce.


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## JustGotDroppedABomshell (Aug 24, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Btw, the best/easiest way to see if she is cheating is to put a 50 dollar var under her car seat with Velcro. They love to talk on the phone in the car where no ne can hear them.
> 
> Have you read this thread for new posters? http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


This is very hard for me to go thru with. A lot of the fights we got into in the past was about privacy due to my fear of cheating. I've told her many times if she cheated I would leave her. This wasnt something that just popped up in the last year or two but for most of our relationship. 

I recently talked to her mom and she told me the hardest thing was when I accused her of cheating on me but she knew she never did. Her mom told me that she felt like she had to prove to me that she didnt cheat by cutting ties with her friends and eliminating her social life. She had to give up one of her best friends that she's known longer than she knew me. I never realized how much better I was in her eyes than him as a SO. I was so insecure, jealous, and angry that I never listened to what she said and only believed what I wanted. 

When she told me that she wanted space to learn about herself, to not feel trapped, and to feel independent I felt the same way some time ago. This is the first time I think we've truly talked and listened to each other. There is no reason to hide anything cause if she hurts me and I want her to leave then she gets what she wants. I'm sure I'm not in denial about her cheating but I finally realized she didnt cheat on me. 

I wouldnt have realized this if I didnt actually started thinking about how much a failure of a husband and as a man. I let my insecurities poison our relationship and any future relationships I may have.


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