# I need some serious advice. We both need the help.



## AEuge87

Hello everyone. Hoping this community becomes the outlet I need for a safe place to talk to someone about what I am going through and to get some advice. I don't feel comfortable speaking about the issues I'm having with my marriage with my wife because she immediately gets defensive and it becomes me fault. She is 27 and has severe depression and anxiety. She always has. To compound this issue, she has post partum depression (we have a beautiful 6 month old son) and refuses to take medication the doctors have prescribed multiple times, but won't go to a therapist because she feels we can't afford it. While they ARE expensive, so are divorces after years of fighting in an unhealthy relationship. She needs help. I need help. Now I'm far from perfect too. When she gets anxious I get angry. When she gets depressed I get angry. I want to be there to support her, but nothing I say or do helps. Nothing her family says or does helps either though, so idk if it's just me failing or if all of us are failing to help or if it's just her genuinely being helpless and needing professional assistance and medicinal help? When she gets upset she goes off the deep end and cries like a child and hyperventilates and spews all sorts of irrational thoughts. Now she has a cold and is so concerned she's going to get our son sick and that he will not be able to breathe when he gets sick too (because it's a guarantee in her mind that he will get sick) and while she's crying and hyperventilating very loudly, I am struggling to put our son to sleep. I finally get him to sleep 

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## AEuge87

Finally get him to sleep and return to see if I can calm her down and she is on the phone with her mom loudly crying and losing it and crying so hard every other word is broken up. I politely say "I got him to sleep finally but he can hear you from the room and it is kind of loud for him, I know that you are upset and I understand why but I am worried that you might wake him up from crying on the phone loudly". That was the wrong thing to say. She told her mom I was being an ******* so now I have 2 women wrong at me and I already can't console her. I'm trying to talk rationalization to her that he's not sick, nor yes anyways, and that we'll deal with it if and when we need to but in the meantime the sooner she gets we'll the less likely he will catch something and that babies get sick all the time and you don't hear of infant dying from the common cold constantly. We have plenty of doctors and hospitals near us and good insurance. We live 5 minutes from his doctor, 5 minutes from a hospital, 2 minutes from an ambulatory fire station. Medical care in an emergency is not a concern of mine. I just don't know what to do to help her. I know I'm a knew member here so unfortunately I can't fully paint a picture of how I am or how she is very clearly right off the bat, but I have hope that over time post after post people can see where I'm at and suggest how to help us both. I'm not perfect, neither and she, and we both need help. She isn't able to help herself and I want to help her but I too am unable currently. I want to change that. 

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## Spicy

Welcome to TAM. 

How old are you, and how long have you been married?
What was your wife like before the PPD set in? Like, is she tremendously worse now than she was before?


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## BluesPower

Spicy said:


> Welcome to TAM.
> 
> How old are you, and how long have you been married?
> What was your wife like before the PPD set in? Like, is she tremendously worse now than she was before?


I am so sorry for what you are going through. I addition to @Spicy 's questions, which are important and need to be answered so that we can give better advice, I wanted to say some things that you may not want to hear. 

It matters how she was before she had the child, it matters a lot. 

The thing is, and I hate to say some of this, but if she was somewhat like this before the child, and she will not get help on her own accord, you are going to have to think of alternative solutions. 

It is extremely difficult to be with someone that will not seek help for legitimate mental health issues. 

I lived it, for 26 years, and in the end the marriage ended. For a lot of reasons, but the mental health aspect was one of them main issues. 

The anger is most often because you don't know what to do, and you can't "fix" it. It is something that you have to get a handle on. 

In the end, if you cannot convince her to get help on her own, just understand that you cannot fix another person, they have to want to get help and fix it themselves. 

If in the end, you cannot get her to get help, well, you may have to consider ending the marriage. In the end, you don't want to waste your life being miserable with someone that will not help themselves...


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## AEuge87

Spicy said:


> Welcome to TAM.
> 
> 
> 
> How old are you, and how long have you been married?
> 
> What was your wife like before the PPD set in? Like, is she tremendously worse now than she was before?


I am 31 she is 27. She was this way even before PPD but it was either the same seviry less often, or less severe but more often. Kinda varied year to year. 

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## AEuge87

BluesPower said:


> I am so sorry for what you are going through. I addition to @Spicy 's questions, which are important and need to be answered so that we can give better advice, I wanted to say some things that you may not want to hear.
> 
> 
> 
> It matters how she was before she had the child, it matters a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, and I hate to say some of this, but if she was somewhat like this before the child, and she will not get help on her own accord, you are going to have to think of alternative solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> It is extremely difficult to be with someone that will not seek help for legitimate mental health issues.
> 
> 
> 
> I lived it, for 26 years, and in the end the marriage ended. For a lot of reasons, but the mental health aspect was one of them main issues.
> 
> 
> 
> The anger is most often because you don't know what to do, and you can't "fix" it. It is something that you have to get a handle on.
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, if you cannot convince her to get help on her own, just understand that you cannot fix another person, they have to want to get help and fix it themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> If in the end, you cannot get her to get help, well, you may have to consider ending the marriage. In the end, you don't want to waste your life being miserable with someone that will not help themselves...


Please never worry about saying something I don't want to hear. I know neither of us are perfect and I understand the reality of the situation. Unfortunately you've already hit it on the head that I live each day in pure misery. Yes there are good days, absolutely. And great moments? You bet. I mean hell, I love her. I love our son. More than anything. But, I could have 23 hours of joy and that one 24th hour can break me so much the last 23 barely feel worth it sometimes. I feel awful saying that, but lying doesn't solve anything either. 

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## AEuge87

I know it may not be fair to myself, but I'd rather be miserable everyday forever in hopes of things getting better than to give up assuming it never will. I'm not a quitter and I love her. I know there's a way to get through this, I just don't know what that way is. 

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## Adelais

@AEuge87 you will need counseling whether or not she has it. You could learn what your healthy boundaries are, so as not to get sucked into ther stuff. However now that there is another person involved (your child) who has zero self control and who needs someone to do everything for him, your situation will be more difficult to maneuver. You already know that you can't refuse to take care of him if she is having a meltdown. Even so, it is not fair to you if she is going to refuse to get help for her depression.

Start by reading the book Boundaries in Marriage, by Cloud and Townsend. It also has a workbook, which could be helpful as well. Be prepared for pushback when you begin to have boundaries with her.

At some point you may need to tell her that a requirement for her be married to you is for her to get psychological help, and to stay up with it. Medication dosages may change over time and she will need to have regular appointments to stay on top of it.


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## AEuge87

Araucaria said:


> @AEuge87 you will need counseling whether or not she has it. You could learn what your healthy boundaries are, so as not to get sucked into ther stuff. However now that there is another person involved (your child) who has zero self control and who needs someone to do everything for him, your situation will be more difficult to maneuver. You already know that you can't refuse to take care of him if she is having a meltdown. Even so, it is not fair to you if she is going to refuse to get help for her depression.
> 
> 
> 
> Start by reading the book Boundaries in Marriage, by Cloud and Townsend. It also has a workbook, which could be helpful as well. Be prepared for pushback when you begin to have boundaries with her.
> 
> 
> 
> At some point you may need to tell her that a requirement for her be married to you is for her to get psychological help, and to stay up with it. Medication dosages may change over time and she will need to have regular appointments to stay on top of it.


Thank you, I will absolutely look into that book. The funny thing is I actually prefer to take care of my son but she feels the overwhelming necessity to mother him to the point where it doesn't leave what I feel is enough room for fathering all the time. She'll get stressed if I wash all the bottles, or out away his clothes, or do any "motherly" or "wifely" duties. I'm so the opposite of a male chauvinist and genuinely enjoy helping out and cooking and cleaning etc. I was raised in a household where it was required of me to be an adult at a young age and fend for myself and do all adult duties regardless of the gender usually associated with them. Should I visit a mental therapist, marriage counselor, psychiatrist, what do you guys suggest? I agree I need to see someone because in the moment I often say rude things that make things worse. Nothing I regret, nothing I say but don't mean. I mean everything I say, but I usually don't say it for the sake of avoiding an argument, and saying a negative thing under anger is received worse than saying it calmly when trying to communicate like adults (which we always struggle to do). 

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## Spicy

Is it ever possible to have a sit down conversation with her about how this all is affecting YOU, or is everything over the top emotionally charged all the time?

I’m here from the same perspective as @BluesPower. I was in a 20+ marriage to a man I very much loved, but he wouldn’t/couldn’t get his emotions/paranoia/depression/ overhwelming negativity under control. It’s a long story I won’t share here, but...

She needs a lot of intervention. She will have to stick with the treatments, appointments, etc and for life. When one med starts to become ineffective, she will need to get a new one. For my sweet XH, he would start to try (when I would beg) but he would never have real follow through...I think because of the depression.

I desperately wanted to always be there for him. I was mortified at the thought of putting my kids through a divorce. Then...I ran out of the ability to build him up anymore...literally I had no more to give him. I fell out of love, and we eventually divorced, and it has been very hard on my youngest who is also emotional like her dad.

Why am I spewing all this on you? To say that I hope she will be someone who will HEAR you when you tell her how badly this is affecting you. That she will take ACTION do all she can to get better, and do that the rest of your lives. These are probably your only hope.

I am sorry you are in this situation. I really would advise against having more kids with her.


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## Spicy

Is her OBGYN aware of her PPD?


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## AEuge87

Spicy said:


> Is it ever possible to have a sit down conversation with her about how this all is affecting YOU, or is everything over the top emotionally charged all the time?
> 
> 
> 
> I’m here from the same perspective as @BluesPower. I was in a 20+ marriage to a man I very much loved, but he wouldn’t/couldn’t get his emotions/paranoia/depression/ overhwelming negativity under control. It’s a long story I won’t share here, but...
> 
> 
> 
> She needs a lot of intervention. She will have to stick with the treatments, appointments, etc and for life. When one med starts to become ineffective, she will need to get a new one. For my sweet XH, he would start to try (when I would beg) but he would never have real follow through...I think because of the depression.
> 
> 
> 
> I desperately wanted to always be there for him. I was mortified at the thought of putting my kids through a divorce. Then...I ran out of the ability to build him up anymore...literally I had no more to give him. I fell out of love, and we eventually divorced, and it has been very hard on my youngest who is also emotional like her dad.
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I spewing all this on you? To say that I hope she will be someone who will HEAR you when you tell her how badly this is affecting you. That she will take ACTION do all she can to get better, and do that the rest of your lives. These are probably your only hope.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry you are in this situation. I really would advise against having more kids with her.


Agreed to the decision of having more children. The unfortunate part is I've known each poor mistake I've made as I felt stuck each step of the way. I got cold feet before marriage knowing it would probably be a bad idea because she was this way back then, but did it anyways. Figured we'll I'm married, I've drawn my path, got a house together. Well, we're married and have a house, gotta have a kid right? Now, I've wanted all of these things. Marriage, house, child, and I do love her. But I also know it would've been one step easier each step of the way to leave if it came down to it at each decision back then. I hate to say it, I really do. Her mother and grandmother are similar in their own ways and both her brothers have severe autism. Maybe she has it a little also? Or maybe I'm an ******* for saying it? Darn if I know. Maybe the whole thing is me overreacting and I'm convincing you all it's her fault and not mine through careful ways of wording only my side? Now a days I honestly don't know. Sometimes I think I'm crazy. 

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## AEuge87

The only time we can sit down and talk is at night in bed and it historically turns into a both offensive and defensive argument. 

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## AEuge87

Spicy said:


> Is her OBGYN aware of her PPD?


Yes, her OBGYN and PCP both diagnosed her with it. Her PCP diagnosed her with general depression and severe anxiety as well. She got various scripts but won't take them and uses the excuses "I don't want to o gain weight from them, I'm already fat" and "I don't like the way they make me feel. You all want me to take them so I'm more tolerable for you guys but nobody cares what I want". She is always self hating and on the defensive complex routine. 

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## Diana7

Has she ever actually taken anti depressants? They work well in helping people to be able to cope with life so well, and she would feel so much better. BTW most do NOT make you fat and most don't make you feel weird. 

With things for you and the baby so serious, you may need to insist that you will only stay in the marriage if she agrees to take her medication regularly. You can't go on like this and the baby will be deeply affected as well. 
However you did marry her knowing all this.


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## AEuge87

Diana7 said:


> Has she ever actually taken anti depressants? They work well in helping people to be able to cope with life so well, and she would feel so much better. BTW most do NOT make you fat and most don't make you feel weird.
> 
> 
> 
> With things for you and the baby so serious, you may need to insist that you will only stay in the marriage if she agrees to take her medication regularly. You can't go on like this and the baby will be deeply affected as well.
> 
> However you did marry her knowing all this.


Yes she had been on them about 5 years ago and she was doing so well. Everyone noticed the benefit except for her. She said she didn't feel any different, even though we could tell it was working. She convinced herself it wasn't helping and made her feel "weird" and ultimately stopped taking them. She actually has a bachelor's degree in psychology so she knows fair and well what does and doesn't work but I think she uses that to misdiagnosed herself lesser than reality. Oh I most certainly chose this path and dug my hole. I can't say I knew what I was getting myself into because she became worse after marriage, worse after house, and worse after child. It's been a downward cycle, sometimes quicker than other times. She has a shopping list of reasons to be depressed and anxious (emergency C section, two MRSA infections, mastitis twice, the flu twice, heavy hair loss, weight gain, and undiagnosed discomforts from a botched C section) so there's that. It's not unreasonable feelings, but rather the inability to cope and how each individual issue that arises is a 10/10 issue for her when others when coping skills would say a 6 or 7.

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## Spicy

You must get someone to watch the baby and let your wife know this time has been set aside is so you can be uninterrupted, and have a serious sit down discussion specifically about her emotional health and the future of your marriage. Clearly, and unmistakenly outline what you need her to do.

First let her know how much you love her. That you want your little family to thrive. That you are willing to do what it takes to help that happen. Then, give her an ultimatum...That the time has come that she listens to EVERYONE ELSE IN HER LIFE, and believes these meds make a huge difference and improvement in your families daily life when she is on them. That she must get on and stay on a faithful schedule with the meds prescribed, or she tries an alternate med provided by her doctors if she truly doesn’t like the first one she tried. Sometimes it takes multiple drugs tried, different doses, combinations etc to get the right combo. 

She needs to fully understand that YOU cannot take the way she is anymore. Where is _your_ value? Why does it not matter at all that when she is on the meds it greatly improves _your_ life? Does she love you enough to improve your life some? How How about your babies life? Remind her that if she can ge this lined out, it could be well controlled and baby may not even remember this version of mommy. (If she won’t do it for you, maybe she will do it for her child, especially if her family was rough around the edges in this regard). 

Reassure her if there was a med you could take that would give her a much better quality of life as a result, you would take it forever, because you want as much happiness as possible for her. She has to understand that this is not the life you want, for yourself, your child, or for her. 

IF she is unwilling, this is not going to end well. It may not end well no matter what you do.

If she will agree to taking care of her mental and emotional health, then you have something to work with. This will still never be easy....but you knew that going in. (I did not, my XH symptoms didn’t start until about 5 years in to marriage). 

Help her to get on a healthier paths. Get her out and moving, taking walks with you and the baby. Offer to watch the baby while she goes to the gym, or figure out a way to go to the gym together. Eating better and losing weight will also help her depression. Since you enjoy cooking, make healthy choices. If she has a lot of weight to lose, consider both of you eating low carb/keto.

Give it your all, but she has to try. If she won’t try, then you have to decide if you can drag around a nearly dead horse the rest of your life.


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## BluesPower

AEuge87 said:


> Agreed to the decision of having more children. The unfortunate part is I've known each poor mistake I've made as I felt stuck each step of the way. I got cold feet before marriage knowing it would probably be a bad idea because she was this way back then, but did it anyways. Figured we'll I'm married, I've drawn my path, got a house together. Well, we're married and have a house, gotta have a kid right? Now, I've wanted all of these things. Marriage, house, child, and I do love her. But I also know it would've been one step easier each step of the way to leave if it came down to it at each decision back then. I hate to say it, I really do. Her mother and grandmother are similar in their own ways and both her brothers have severe autism. Maybe she has it a little also? Or maybe I'm an ******* for saying it? Darn if I know. Maybe the whole thing is me overreacting and I'm convincing you all it's her fault and not mine through careful ways of wording only my side? Now a days I honestly don't know. Sometimes I think I'm crazy.


Listen to me, all of this negative self talk, and putting yourself down it completely wrong, wrong thinking, wrong for you, and wrong for your child, for that matter wrong for your wife. 

You have been weak with this issue, I don't know why but you have. 

Actually, on second thought I do understand why. It is the frog in the boiling water. And I have lived this as well. 

You see, if put a frog in a pot of boiling water, he will jump out. BUT... if you put him in a pot of regular water and slowly turn up the heat, he will not know what is happening and he will boil and die. 

You are the frog. When we start dating someone, fall in love, we don't see all the signs, we are the frog in the cold water. Then over time we get used to the insanity that is around us. 

Let me tell you a shameful story from my past. My wife had severe mental issues, come to find out, and she was a "Hidden" prescription drug addict on top of everything else. 

One day, my youngest son, about 18 at that time, said, "You know today was a pretty good day, mom did not do anything crazy, and it was pretty calm." 

Initially I said, "You are right, it was a good day." Then it hit me, and I said to him, "No I am wrong. Son, how crazy is it that we judge our days as a family, based on whether or not your mother did anything crazy. I mean, you get that THAT is not normal." 

That day I knew I was done. I realized that while trying to keep my wife from killing herself, or accidently overdosing, I had put my children through hell. 

The guilt and shame that I feel for that, is with me today. 

You need to understand that you cannot fix your wife, you cannot. MAYBE, and it is a big maybe, if you become stronger as a man and a person, you can get her to go get help. Maybe you cannot.

What you need to do is document her behavior in a notebook and any other way that you can, and file for divorce. 

That may be the only thing that forces her to get help. And it may not.


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