# To lurking Betrayed Spouses



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

I just want to offer support to those that are betrayed spouses. 
You may feel intimidated to share your story and feel that in someway you were cheated on because of something lacking in you.
Please don't feel intimidated by those who are cheater apologists as they tend to support those that cheated and are in one way or another insinuate that a betrayed spouse is complicit on being cheated on. Please don't allow yourself to feel worse than you already feel. 

I doubt any betrayed spouse feels they were perfect. No one is perfect, not a betrayed spouse or the wayward spouse. Unfortunately, there seems to be a prejudice in regard to being betrayed in the sense that a cheater wouldn't have cheated if the betrayed spouse was not in some way lacking.

It makes me wonder though...if a spouse were so lacking, why were the cheaters so invested in not being found out? Of course, cheaters are good at straw man tactics and it's one of their greatest tools in shifting the narrative.

So what...you were not perfect and neither is the WS, but cheaters are good at elevating themselves and downgrading the betrayed spouse. 

I never read a thread where a betrayed spouse claimed to be a saint or the best thing since sliced bread. It's weird that so many betrayed spouses are dissed and dismissed.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

However, TAM may be the only place you won't be dissed or dismissed...


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Yeah, you nailed the part about no one being perfect. Its one of the pathetic cornerstones of the wayward. Everybody has their excuses. Cheaters specialize in them; live their lives in a parallel line of excuses, one after the next.

Being a "not perfect" spouse is a great deal more desirable than being a lying, betraying, adulterous spouse.

For the record, that doesn't mean I'm blaming the Holocaust on adulterers.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> However, TAM may be the only place you won't be dissed or dismissed...


Not according to recent trends.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Not according to recent trends.


Which?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Forest said:


> Yeah, you nailed the part about no one being perfect. Its one of the pathetic cornerstones of the wayward. Everybody has their excuses. Cheaters specialize in them; live their lives in a parallel line of excuses, one after the next.
> 
> Being a "not perfect" spouse is a great deal more desirable than being a lying, betraying, adulterous spouse.
> 
> For the record, that doesn't mean I'm blaming the Holocaust on adulterers.


Hallelujah! I could never say it better, even if I tried...


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> However, TAM may be the only place you won't be dissed or dismissed...



There are so many great folks here that are supportive and sincere. 

i hope it stays that way.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Which?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's great to see you back here Regret.

I may not have always agreed with what you've wriiten here, but I know that TAM's a better and more complete place with you actively posting in it's threads.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It's great to see you back here Regret.
> 
> I may not have always agreed with what you've wriiten here, but I know that TAM's a better and more complete place with you actively posting in it's threads.


Thank you for saying such. It is difficult to be here most times. Both Dig and I only wish peace to anyone touched by the tragedy of infidelity. I hope people, whatever they do in their situation, can heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Nice post. There's an infidelity forum out there and there's a section where I refuse to go and read the posts because it's still very triggering for me 2+ years out. BS's, especially BW's, are basically made out to be the right arm of satan for standing in the path of true love between cheaters and their AP's. You know, when a BS is blindsided by the discovery of an affair and has the gall to be angry and upset with their cheating spouse and the OP :scratchhead:. 

From what I once read there, posters (a majority of which seemed to be OW) encourage each other to stick by their "boyfriends" while they deal with their "psycho wives" and "spoiled children." No doubt those children were spoiled by their other parent....the psychos, lol. 

The lack of regard for others there is appalling. I much prefer TAM.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Which?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One I have noticed lately is multiple posts stating how much at fault the betrayed partner is when their spouse chooses to stab them in the back. No need to discuss the validity of the statement, just an observation.

Another one I noticed today is, that apparantly; a betrayed spouse should be held responsible, if children gets hurt during and post infidelity, because they may or may not be perfect parents themselves - further; several posters, seemingly supported by a moderator, seem to believe that children in general don't care whether one parent inflict damage on the other or not. It was also suggested that the loyal spouse should support the lies instead of "spill the beans"... 

I'm just... speechless :scratchhead::scratchhead: Well, I guess it just shows how different we all are when it comes to thoughts and core values.

I'm aware that there has been other opposite trends over time, which I don't agree with either btw, but I guess it's like the tide - one has to learn to flow with it, because you may drown if you try to fight it. That's my experience at least.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

cpacan said:


> *One I have noticed lately is multiple posts stating how much at fault the betrayed partner is when their spouse chooses to stab them in the back*. No need to discuss the validity of the statement, just an observation.
> 
> Another one I noticed today is, that apparantly; a betrayed spouse should be held responsible, if children gets hurt during and post infidelity, because they may or may not be perfect parents themselves - further; several posters, seemingly supported by a moderator, seem to believe that children in general don't care whether one parent inflict damage on the other or not. It was also suggested that the loyal spouse should support the lies instead of "spill the beans"...
> 
> ...


Re the bolded, I've noticed this train of thought seems to go in waves on TAM. Seems like it gets triggered (intentionally or not) by a post that either dances around the subject of blame or, of course, is directly related to who is to blame. Then, 20+ pages later on the same thread.....

Anyhow, generally speaking, I do believe society feels that BS's must have done something wrong or they wouldn't have been cheated on. The poor WS's had NO other choice but to seek solace in-between someone else's legs . Blame shifting WS's who aren't remorseful and cheater apologists, I suppose.

That said, I'm betting a couple decades back I probably held similar opinions about cheating .


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I was perfect and still am.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> Re the bolded, I've noticed this train of thought seems to go in waves on TAM. Seems like it gets triggered (intentionally or not) by a post that either dances around the subject of blame or, of course, is directly related to who is to blame. Then, 20+ pages later on the same thread.....
> 
> Anyhow, generally speaking, I do believe society feels that BS's must have done something wrong or they wouldn't have been cheated on. The poor WS's had NO other choice but to seek solace in-between someone else's legs . Blame shifting WS's who aren't remorseful and cheater apologists, I suppose.
> 
> That said, I'm betting a couple decades back I probably held similar opinions about cheating .


I know I held the same belief untill just before d-day three years ago. If you haven't been affected by infidelity in some way, I just don't think you give it much thought. I also agree that infidelity is widely accepted, which is why I think it is so important to have a place for betrayed spouses to receive support and guidance instead of insulting insinuations. I don't know if such a place exist online today. This forum was the best I could find back then.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Rugs said:


> I was perfect and still am.


I like your moxy. Careful, some may take your comment literally.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Rugs said:


> I was perfect and still am.



:rofl: Love ittttt!!!!!


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: To lurking Betrayed Spouses*



Rugs said:


> I was perfect and still am.


......I wasn't aware that there were two of us?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

How long until one of the pseudo-intellectual/empathetic blowhards shows up to repeat how if someone was getting what they needed at home, they wouldn't have to stray?

What shallow filth. Society has become insanely passive and tolerant when idiotic statements like that go unchallenged. What's next? "If my needs had been met, I wouldn't have to batter my spouse...If you had been there when I needed support I wouldn't have gambled away all our money...."

More excuses.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Forest said:


> How long until one of the pseudo-intellectual/empathetic blowhards shows up to repeat how if someone was getting what they needed at home, they wouldn't have to stray?
> 
> What shallow filth. Society has become insanely passive and tolerant when idiotic statements like that go unchallenged. What's next? "If my needs had been met, I wouldn't have to batter my spouse...If you had been there when I needed support I wouldn't have gambled away all our money...."
> 
> More excuses.


Yep have to look at the context. If they admit they were wrong in the affair then they have to take the blame. They don't want to do that so its someone eles fault. Blame shifting 101. Those types of people you will never be able to reason with. And likely they are like that in all aspects of life. Its all about accountability. Some have it and some don't. Some WS here have it and regret what they have done. But from what I have seen in last few years it's a very few.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yep have to look at the context. If they admit they were wrong in the affair then they have to take the blame. They don't want to do that so its someone eles fault. Blame shifting 101. Those types of people you will never be able to reason with. And likely they are like that in all aspects of life. Its all about accountability. Some have it and some don't. Some WS here have it and regret what they have done. But from what I have seen in last few years it's a very few.


I agree, and can understand the WS who are unwilling and in some cases psychologically unable to accept responsibility for their actions. My own completely unremorseful WS would nail me for the Lindburgh kidnapping if he could. I have a harder time coming to terms with the cheater-apologists, those BS who continue to refuse to hold their WS responsible.

I have a theory that applies to some (although clearly not all). Some apologists I've noticed seem to have some issues with control and believe they can and should control everything. They control the finances, their children and up until the A, they believed they controlled their spouse. When a WS engages in infidelity, the controlling spouse suddenly has no control. So in an attempt to reel back their view of the world, they assume the control over the A. "My WS cheated because I was a bad spouse who didn't listen, and I've changed that." Voila, they have their control back.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> I agree, and can understand the WS who are unwilling and in some cases psychologically unable to accept responsibility for their actions. My own completely unremorseful WS would nail me for the Lindburgh kidnapping if he could. I have a harder time coming to terms with the cheater-apologists, those BS who continue to refuse to hold their WS responsible.
> 
> I have a theory that applies to some (although clearly not all). Some apologists I've noticed seem to have some issues with control and believe they can and should control everything. They control the finances, their children and up until the A, they believed they controlled their spouse. When a WS engages in infidelity, the controlling spouse suddenly has no control. So in an attempt to reel back their view of the world, they assume the control over the A. "My WS cheated because I was a bad spouse who didn't listen, and I've changed that." Voila, they have their control back.


Well that's exactly it and I feel the same way. When a BS goes through reconcillianion I imagine the only way to get back any sort of trust is to find fault in what "they did" to cause an affair. After all if you believe as I that: the person having an affair is responsible for that affair and that the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior then as a BS you are in a pretty scary place because you have be hurt and now are putting yourself back in that same relationship with someone who betrayed you. You have to imagine that you would want to cling to ANYthing to make the next outcome different. So it's safe to say well I caused this because I was doing xyz and now I'm not so he/she won't cheat again.

In my time here it would seem that you see a whole different throught process from BS who reconcile vs move on to find someone else. You can almost tell by thier posts if they reconciled or not by How much blame they take

Course not all but seems you and I are seeing the same thing. I will be the first to admit that I could never go through a reconciliation.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I tried...I believed I was at fault...Until I found TAM and said hell no! He's been going around the place to family, friends and the church, telling them "Oh, Mother of God!...My wife takes advice from the internet!" (aka TAM)...How dare I? Guess he lost control. I had to remind him, although it's useless, that he took 6+ years "marriage advice" from a big, fat wh0re whose low-self-esteem is oozing out the seams of her clothes, who has never been married, has no children and who is 11 years younger than me...Frickin' bigamist-ic idiot...I asked him if he couldn't have bought her a mirror (instead of a burger), when she kept asking him why she can't find a "good man" because they are all married?...All this going on while me and my children are suffering in oblivion to their counseling sessions, completely neglected. He had said he needed another woman's advice about his wife and marriage problems...But let the record show, his insurance carries an EAP program...Dummy! Yes, I do get feisty when someone messes with my mind and my money...I told him to make sure he brings his "marriage counselor" to the divorce hearing so she can spread her legs and show the judge her counseling degrees.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> No one is perfect, not a betrayed spouse or the wayward spouse. Unfortunately, there seems to be a prejudice in regard to being


I was at a funeral not very long ago for the mother of one of the kids I coach. A number of family members spoke eloquently. I was most touched by what her husband said and how he concluded. I have no reason to believe any of what he said related to infidelity. He is a very smart and accomplished man. High profile and very successful in his field of psychiatry and running his own practice as well as the programs of many if not all of the hospitals in the state. He and I have never been very warm, but that changed some I think when he saw that I took the day to be him and his family and friends and when we talked at the reception at his house. I would take that day again and again. His son is 13. And a great kid. Hard stuff.


He concluded his humorous and loving remarks with the words that no one is entirely good, no one is entirely bad.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Despite the fact that no one is entirely good and bad...Every single one of us know what is right and what is wrong...Apples & oranges.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Reconciliation isn't for everyone, clearly. 
I hung on in the marriage as long as I could until I saw how my children were being hurt. (And no, I didn't cause my children's pain by refusing to lie to them. And yes, I know they were being hurt, so there!) 
But you can't reconcile with a spouse who has no interest in accepting responsibility for their behavior, and was running for the door. He's still running.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> Despite the fact that no one is entirely good and bad...Every single one of us know what is right and what is wrong...Apples & oranges.


Maybe. I think so. All of us have been burned by this. But, in the end, what do you want and what do you want to do?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Harken Banks said:


> I was at a funeral not very long ago for the mother of one of the kids I coach. A number of family members spoke eloquently. I was most touched by what her husband said and how he concluded. I have no reason to believe any of what he said related to infidelity. He is a very smart and accomplished man. High profile and very successful in his field of psychiatry and running his own practice as well as the programs of many if not all of the hospitals in the state. He and I have never been very warm, but that changed some I think when he saw that I took the day to be him and his family and friends and when we talked at the reception at his house. I would take that day again and again. His son is 13. And a great kid. Hard stuff.
> 
> 
> He concluded his humorous and loving remarks with the words that no one is entirely good, no one is entirely bad.


Hi HB, glad you've returned and being there for that family that was clearly hurting was wonderful.

I agree. The world is not black and white/ good and bad.

My ex is not an entirely bad person, but he unquestionably has no problem engaging in repeated acts of bad behavior. I can say he is a bad parent, particularly when it comes to our oldest child. 
I am not an entirely good person. I am impatient and opinionated, and my BP is higher than it should be. I can say I have never knowingly and willfully harmed my family, but I am not perfect.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Hi HB, glad you've returned and being there for that family that was clearly hurting was wonderful.
> 
> I agree. The world is not black and white/ good and bad.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Pluto. You are like me. I am like you.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

cheating has NOTHING to do with things lacking in a marriage,...the things lacking are just excuses the ws uses to justify having NO integrity, loyalty, or honor, and thinking with their loins...

no marriage is perfect, and if is that horrible divorce...people seriously try justifying staying in a marriage (financial support) while they bang another...pathetic

ws's AND bs's in R will make excuses for it...there are NONE


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> cheating has NOTHING to do with things lacking in a marriage,...the things lacking are just excuses the ws uses to justify having NO integrity, loyalty, or honor, and thinking with their loins...
> 
> no marriage is perfect, and if is that horrible divorce...people seriously try justifying staying in a marriage (financial support) while they bang another...pathetic
> 
> ws's AND bs's in R will make excuses for it...there are NONE


I think that is right. 

Now, where do we go from here?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Once my divorce is final, I will be able to caste all this aside. I fully believe that I cannot afford to forget any part of this until the judge's ink is on the dotted line.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> ws's AND bs's in R will make excuses for it...there are NONE


You make it sound as if this is hard truth for any attempting reconciliation. Which it isn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

cpacan said:


> One I have noticed lately is multiple posts stating how much at fault the betrayed partner is when their spouse chooses to stab them in the back.
> 
> a betrayed spouse should be held responsible, if children gets hurt during and post infidelity, because they may or may not be perfect parents themselves - further; several posters, seemingly supported by a moderator, seem to believe that children in general don't care whether one parent inflict damage on the other or not. It was also suggested that the loyal spouse should support the lies instead of "spill the beans"...


I peeked in on the thread most of this was going down on. The rationalize hamsters over there are spinning so fast that they are starting to warp space/time. A few brave souls are still attempting to hold the fabric of reality together, but its quickly becoming a place where logic and accountability doesn't exist.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Calibre1212 said:


> Once my divorce is final, I will be able to caste all this aside. I fully believe that I cannot afford to forget any part of this until the judge's ink is on the dotted line.


C, your pain sounds fresh, and I right?
Could I suggest that you don't caste it all aside and forget about it. That's sort of like self-inflicted rug-sweeping, isn't it? The pain and emotions that follow betrayal go somewhere and you either figure out how to identify them, deal with it and let it out, or it can fester inside and do unspeakable things.

And if I'm wrong, well-never mind.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> You make it sound as if this is hard truth for any attempting reconciliation. Which it isn't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


there is such a fine line between making excuses for infidelity and forgiving infidelity that there might as well not be one

I dont personally know ONE couple that moved on from infidelity where the bs does NOT make excused for what his/her cheating spouse did...even taking the blame for it...pafuggingthetic...

But afaic, there is NO reason for R...for me anyways...if this was strictly a "how to r after affairs" forum or thread, I would stay away as I have nothing to add...i have never nor will I probably ever see a good reason for R...once it happens its too late...


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

i could say that every marriage has it's challenges. There is always room for making it better. sure some marriages should end in divorce if there's abuse or addiction. I don't buy or drink the cool aid that cheating is justifiable and I shake my head when cheating is defended and finger pointing as to lay blame on a deceived spouse. It's cruel and harsh to knock someone down who already feels low. 

Reading here, I see many betrayed spouses who tried hard, tried hard to reconcile, and many, like myself who chose to divorce.

I was not perfect, but I was a good husband and I refuse to take any blame in my ex-wife's poor choices and lack of character.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> there is such a fine line between making excuses for infidelity and forgiving infidelity that there might as well not be one
> 
> I dont personally know ONE couple that moved on from infidelity where the bs does NOT make excused for what his/her cheating spouse did...even taking the blame for it...pafuggingthetic...
> 
> But afaic, there is NO reason for R...for me anyways...if this was strictly a "how to r after affairs" forum or thread, I would stay away as I have nothing to add...i have never nor will I probably ever see a good reason for R...once it happens its too late...


Totally fine angle to take as long as when giving advise to others, especially those working toward reconciliation, you don't downplay or degrade their choices. This is actually an issue with TAM...an unwavering viewpoint which refutes any other ideology.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> i could say that every marriage has it's challenges. There is always room for making it better. sure some marriages should end in divorce if there's abuse or addiction. I don't buy or drink the cool aid that cheating is justifiable and I shake my head when cheating is defended and finger pointing as to lay blame on a deceived spouse. It's cruel and harsh to knock someone down who already feels low.
> 
> Reading here, I see many betrayed spouses who tried hard, tried hard to reconcile, and many, like myself who chose to divorce.
> 
> I was not perfect, but I was a good husband and I refuse to take any blame in my ex-wife's poor choices and lack of character.


I agree 100%!! You should NEVER take the blame for a partner's decision to have an affair. Not ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Totally fine angle to take as long as when giving advise to others, especially those working toward reconciliation, you don't downplay or degrade their choices. This is actually an issue with TAM...an unwavering viewpoint which refutes any other ideology.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes R is hard enough without all the 2x4's and 2x2's flying at you.

one of the reasons i have never shared my full story on here

I am afraid I lose some respect and friends here BS and WS alike.

a few BS have been run off here because they chose to stay .
I would love to here how RDMU is doing.

I must admit i admire some of the ones that go straight to devoice.

I know most of Missthelovin's story he had several VAR audio of his wife and Om provided by OM's wife and sometimes the hard evidence helps make your mind up although he my still have went straight to D


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Totally fine angle to take as long as when giving advise to others, especially those working toward reconciliation, you don't downplay or degrade their choices. This is actually an issue with TAM...an unwavering viewpoint which refutes any other ideology.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope I never do either .....downplay or degrade. But if they ask for advice I always will offer the same which is you deserve someone who will fight with you for a marriage and not against you by brining a third party in...and that you deserve better than that.

While reconciliation works for a few I don't personally agree with it but it's for my own life that it's an automatically a 100% deal breaker. Even now single I refuse to date anyone who ever cheated. Even if they completely own it not happening. So I have never gone into the reconciliation thread and won't. I have nothing constructive to offer those who decided to stay. Just hope for them it works out like they hope it can


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

convert said:


> yes R is hard enough without all the 2x4's and 2x2's flying at you.
> 
> one of the reasons i have never shared my full story on here
> 
> ...


I divorced, but sometimes (in the past) I think that I may have made a mistake. A lot of it is that my ex wife was so completely remorseful, and I was so suspicious of her, that I didn't recognize it as genuine. But, then again, I had nothing to compare it to, having never gone through this before. I think that the idea of DR. Harley is a good one. Don't make any major decisions for 2 or 3 months, except what you need to make to keep yourself and your kids (if any) safe.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Regret214...I don't think you realize or can fathom exactly how much you are the exception and not the rule.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Calibre1212 said:


> Regret214...I don't think you realize or can fathom exactly how much you are the exception and not the rule.


Look Its a Unicorn -------> Regret214



:smthumbup:

Clay


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> Regret214...I don't think you realize or can fathom exactly how much you are the exception and not the rule.


It boggles my mind that once set straight and things are so obvious that people can't see or refuse to see the errors of they way(s).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Regret214...I don't think you realize or can fathom exactly how much you are the exception and not the rule.


I'd say (sort of) the same thing to Rookie.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Interesting observation that this thread provoked:

When people quit a job they dislike without having another one lined up, we consider them impulsive and irresponsible, not thinking out their financial security, etc. We expect people to have a plan to smoothly flow from one job to the next, or to have saved up for continuing education or retraining. Being jobless is frowned on. We want people to have a safety net by not quitting their current job unless and until they have new employment, and usually a better one, secured.

And then we feel the exact opposite about relationships! You absolutely MUST end a relationship long before embarking on a new one. It’s completely unacceptable to prepare a second relationship before the first one is over. You can’t make sure the next one is going to be better before quitting the first one. A relationship may be stale or even unpleasant, but when people treat it like employment and won’t quit it unless they know there is something better to move into, it’s wrong! 

People who would rather stay in bad employment than be unemployed are admired for their tenacity and sense of responsibility, and encouraged to job hunt or improve their employability. Then when they have found new and better employment, they may resign and move onwards and upwards, and everybody is happy for them. 

People who would rather stay in a bad relationship while they search for a new relationship rather than have a period of time with no relationship, though, it’s the opposite! They’re horrible! They absolutely cannot be improving themselves for the goal of leaving the relationship, they cannot be mate hunting while already mated. It’s wrong! And if they do find a better relationship and switch to it, the only person that’s happy is them. 

I think for many cheaters, it’s the same feeling, that need for a safety net, that drives them. They need to be in a relationship, so even if they know their current one is not what they want/need, they consider it better than being single. So when they find someone with whom they can have a better relationship, they nail that down solid before doing anything to end the first relationship to avoid that ‘unemployed’ phase in between.

Just kind of funny how the one situation is admirably responsible and the other is completely selfish.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> I hope I never do either .....downplay or degrade. But if they ask for advice I always will offer the same which is you deserve someone who will fight with you for a marriage and not against you by brining a third party in...and that you deserve better than that.
> 
> While reconciliation works for a few I don't personally agree with it but it's for my own life that it's an automatically a 100% deal breaker. Even now single I refuse to date anyone who ever cheated. Even if they completely own it not happening. So I have never gone into the reconciliation thread and won't. I have nothing constructive to offer those who decided to stay. Just hope for them it works out like they hope it can


I'm new here and just starting to feel like myself again after nearly three years since my divorce. I filed for divorce within a week from my discovery of my wife's cheating. 

It was the hardest thing I ever did, but it was the only thing I knew that would give me a solid chance at a clear and clean future. I guess it would have been a harder decision if we had children. 

I really feel for those with kids who face the difficult and painful fallout and the breakup of a family. I was lucky, I grew up with two loving parents. Quite of few of my friends were shuffled back and forth between their parents. Looking back I realized that they never said much about how they felt, but I see now how much it affected them. My friends gravitated to my home, they hung out at my house most of the time. My parents treated them like extra sons. To this day, my buddies make a point of visiting my parents every so often and help out with fixing or helping out with anything they might need assistance with.

I want that too, what my parents had and have...but it seems a lot harder now and maybe it's a thing of the past.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I'd say (sort of) the same thing to Rookie.


Gus, I have always been an individual, and never a follower. I don't stand in lines, and almost never wait my turn. The only way you get anywhere is to start moving.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I have always been an individual, and never a follower. I don't stand in lines, and almost never wait my turn. The only way you get anywhere is to start moving.


This made me laugh. :rofl:


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It's great to see you back here Regret.
> 
> I may not have always agreed with what you've wriiten here, but I know that TAM's a better and more complete place with you actively posting in it's threads.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> I'm new here and just starting to feel like myself again after nearly three years since my divorce. I filed for divorce within a week from my discovery of my wife's cheating.
> 
> It was the hardest thing I ever did, but it was the only thing I knew that would give me a solid chance at a clear and clean future. I guess it would have been a harder decision if we had children.
> 
> ...



I feel the same way. Most all my family from parents to aunts and uncles are still on their first and only marriage. I was the black sheep getting divorced. Even though they all understood what she did and why I had to go I feel like I invited this woman into my wonderful family and I let them all down. Terrible burden to bear.

I always wanted the strong and big family like I saw when I grew up but I ruined that with who I picked and can't every have that now. I get where you're coming from. I hope you find peace. I am still looking for mine.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Gus, I have always been an individual, and never a follower. I don't stand in lines, and almost never wait my turn. The only way you get anywhere is to start moving.


You should have your own beer commercial. Or a jeans commercial. Or both.

Or maybe you could star in the next commercial for Colorado Technical University.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> You should have your own beer commercial. Or a jeans commercial. Or both.
> 
> Or maybe you could star in the next commercial for Colorado Technical University.


He's hot today:lol:

Oh golly! I'm hot today! - YouTube


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> I feel the same way. Most all my family from parents to aunts and uncles are still on their first and only marriage. I was the black sheep getting divorced. Even though they all understood what she did and why I had to go I feel like I invited this woman into my wonderful family and I let them all down. Terrible burden to bear.
> 
> I always wanted the strong and big family like I saw when I grew up but I ruined that with who I picked and can't every have that now. I get where you're coming from. I hope you find peace. I am still looking for mine.



The only person we can control is ourselves. For a long time, I lost my ability to trust. I realize it not's about trusting someone else, it's about learning to trust yourself again.

I'm in good place now and hope you get back to that good place in your life too.

I know there are quality women out there and they shouldn't pay the price for a few bad apples. I've lived among so many strong and beautiful women, they're there and I know I'll find someone special and in hindsight will see that my divorce was a blessing in disguise.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> You should have your own beer commercial. Or a jeans commercial. Or both.
> 
> Or maybe you could star in the next commercial for Colorado Technical University.


I want that beer commercial!!! I am way more interesting than the Dos XX twerp.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> You should have your own beer commercial. Or a jeans commercial. Or both.
> 
> Or maybe you could star in the next commercial for Colorado Technical University.


yeah, a jeans commercial for rookie, "get moving jeans" for guys who don't wait in line because their jeans are too tight. How's that for a tag line.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I divorced, but sometimes (in the past) I think that I may have made a mistake. A lot of it is that my ex wife was so completely remorseful, and I was so suspicious of her, that I didn't recognize it as genuine. But, then again, I had nothing to compare it to, having never gone through this before. I think that the idea of DR. Harley is a good one. Don't make any major decisions for 2 or 3 months, except what you need to make to keep yourself and your kids (if any) safe.


I thought she was not that remorseful at first but maybe i didn't read it right.
You did try to R eventually after D.
everything has turned out for you in a good way.
so overall you did it right....I think

I do like taking your time (2 to 3 months) to make a decision


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ripper said:


> I peeked in on the thread most of this was going down on. The rationalize hamsters over there are spinning so fast that they are starting to warp space/time. A few brave souls are still attempting to hold the fabric of reality together, but its quickly becoming a place where logic and accountability doesn't exist.


Just got caught up on that thread. Any day now the title will be changed to "making the world a better place one affair at a time"


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

convert said:


> I thought she was not that remorseful at first but maybe i didn't read it right.
> You did try to R eventually after D.
> everything has turned out for you in a good way.
> so overall you did it right....I think
> ...


See, that's the thing. She had her anger management issues, so I didn't recognize how remorseful she actually was. And I think , at first, she blamed me and my job for the affair. But her counselor soon showed her the error of her thinking. Once she faced the fact that it was HER bad choices, she crumbled like a house of cards. 
We did try to recapture our feelings for each other, at a later date, but I had already met my GF, so it never happened. It worked out great for me, but not for the ex.
If I had taken a little more time, to get my thoughts together, who knows what might have happened?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Just got caught up on that thread. Any day now the title will be changed to "making the world a better place one affair at a time"


Oh, boy. Which thread is THAT?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I divorced, but sometimes (in the past) I think that I may have made a mistake. A lot of it is that my ex wife was so completely remorseful, and I was so suspicious of her, that I didn't recognize it as genuine. But, then again, I had nothing to compare it to, having never gone through this before. I think that the idea of DR. Harley is a good one. Don't make any major decisions for 2 or 3 months, except what you need to make to keep yourself and your kids (if any) safe.





Rookie4 said:


> See, that's the thing. She had her anger management issues, so I didn't recognize how remorseful she actually was. And I think , at first, she blamed me and my job for the affair. But her counselor soon showed her the error of her thinking. Once she faced the fact that it was HER bad choices, she crumbled like a house of cards.
> We did try to recapture our feelings for each other, at a later date, but I had already met my GF, so it never happened. It worked out great for me, but not for the ex.
> If I had taken a little more time, to get my thoughts together, who knows what might have happened?


I hope this isn't something that you've beat/are beating yourself up over. After all, if you made a "mistake" at all, it's only because your ex failed to set aside her anger, pride, or whatever in order to fully humble herself to you in the days immediately following D-Day. Additionally, the steak/hamburger and bigger/better comments, along w/ the fact that she DID leave the marital home after D-Day to be w/ OM (correct?) can't have helped at all.

I mean... you can't hand someone a "1", a "+", another "1" and then expect that they'll magically come up w/ a "3".

This is on your ex; it's great that you've forgiven her, but never forget that.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Ripper said:


> I peeked in on the thread most of this was going down on. The rationalize hamsters over there are spinning so fast that they are starting to warp space/time. A few brave souls are still attempting to hold the fabric of reality together, but its quickly becoming a place where logic and accountability doesn't exist.


With so many folks vying to be the center of the universe, it may hold itself together indefinitely.




Pluto2 said:


> Just got caught up on that thread. Any day now the title will be changed to "making the world a better place one affair at a time"


The implosion of the affair star gives way to a different variety of bright lights and hot gas.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I hope this isn't something that you've beat/are beating yourself up over. After all, if you made a "mistake" at all, it's only because your ex failed to set aside her anger, pride, or whatever in order to fully humble herself to you in the days immediately following D-Day. Additionally, the steak/hamburger and bigger/better comments, along w/ the fact that she DID leave the martial home after D-Day to be w/ OM (correct?) can't have helped at all.
> 
> I mean... you can't hand someone a "1", a "+", another "1" and then expect that they'll magically come up w/ a "3".
> 
> This is on your ex; it's great that you've forgiven her, but never forget that.


No, Gus, I'm not giving her a free pass. Not at all. I'm simply stating that some marriages CAN be saved, if some time is taken before making any earth shattering decisions. My ex , at the time, was a real cu*t, and I wanted nothing to do with her.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Served Cold said:


> The only person we can control is ourselves. For a long time, I lost my ability to trust. I realize it not's about trusting someone else, it's about learning to trust yourself again.
> 
> I'm in good place now and hope you get back to that good place in your life too.
> 
> I know there are quality women out there and they shouldn't pay the price for a few bad apples. I've lived among so many strong and beautiful women, they're there and I know I'll find someone special and in hindsight will see that my divorce was a blessing in disguise.


I dunno... admittedly ”only” 3+ years from DDay and burned twice, so there's definitely bias and sour grapes from me, but since DDay, reading, watching, learning I really feel like my eyes are opened and the majority of people (not just women, but women inclusive for sure) are much much much less trustworthy than I'd previously thought, by a longshot. 

And so I do not trust, until or unless that is earned -- and I am no longer sure how that would even get earned anymore, because I simply won't let anyone get to that place.

Previously, I'd probably trust as a default, and flip to not trusting them if they gave me a reason. Now it is the opposite, to an extreme and I find it way way safer, even necessary.

I look around, let's say at work, and see what I'd never seen before -- so many affairs, experience with affairs, cheating almost a given across such a wide cross-section of people I encounter. Sometimes, disgustingly openly about it in not-so-quiet whispers, laughing and joking -- even admiring -- people getting away with it. Married women offering themselves to this poor, wounded heart. 

It's just everywhere -- well documented here on TAM; TV, news, here, in the workplace, social circles, everyone is or knows someone "in the game", and that's the % that is publicized. How much more is going on, too? Some people I know have even started hinting that I am too ultra-sensitive to it. "It happens. To most people, at some point," I once heard. Really?

Was I really so blind before? Apparently so. I don't think that's all on me; I think it's more like a reality that I've woken up to. And it turns my stomach.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Interesting observation that this thread provoked:
> 
> When people quit a job they dislike without having another one lined up, we consider them impulsive and irresponsible, not thinking out their financial security, etc. We expect people to have a plan to smoothly flow from one job to the next, or to have saved up for continuing education or retraining. Being jobless is frowned on. We want people to have a safety net by not quitting their current job unless and until they have new employment, and usually a better one, secured.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I think you're right about some WS feeling desperate to replace a partner. Doesn't really explain WS that have long term A, or serial cheaters who could have left after any one of the betrayals.

Maybe the difference is that you don't take vows with your employer "until death do us part".


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm still curious to know which thread is "making the world a better place one affair at a time".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> I'm still curious to know which thread is "making the world a better place one affair at a time".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's the one with the similar name.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> It's the one with the similar name.


Wait. Seriously? How so? There is absolutely nothing in that thread suggesting anything close to such. Actually, it seems that 90% of the conversation is mere bickering and argument round and round.

If that's what people are getting out of that thread, then they really need to take a look in the ego mirror and see why they're reacting with such silly notions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Wait. Seriously? How so? There is absolutely nothing in that thread suggesting anything close to such. Actually, it seems that 90% of the conversation is mere bickering and argument round and round.
> 
> If that's what people are getting out of that thread, then they really need to take a look in the ego mirror and see why they're reacting with such silly notions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the original comment was meant to be sarcastic


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

convert said:


> I think the original comment was meant to be sarcastic


I hope that's the case. I would hate to think that's what people are getting upon reading it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Wait. Seriously? How so? There is absolutely nothing in that thread suggesting anything close to such. Actually, it seems that 90% of the conversation is mere bickering and argument round and round.
> 
> If that's what people are getting out of that thread, then they really need to take a look in the ego mirror and see why they're reacting with such silly notions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn mirrors!!! Root of all evil!!! Sorry, but in IC I'm doing self reflection and mirrors are causing me to trigger!!


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

2xloser said:


> I dunno... admittedly ”only” 3+ years from DDay and burned twice, so there's definitely bias and sour grapes from me, but since DDay, reading, watching, learning I really feel like my eyes are opened and the majority of people (not just women, but women inclusive for sure) are much much much less trustworthy than I'd previously thought, by a longshot.
> 
> And so I do not trust, until or unless that is earned -- and I am no longer sure how that would even get earned anymore, because I simply won't let anyone get to that place.
> 
> ...



I get what you're saying....just take a look at my thread and how it's been veered off by some folks who are making light of it.

Some people need to take center stage and talk out of both sides of their mouth. Funny thing is it's so obvious and the true colors bleed through the faux sincerity.

It's enlightening to say the least.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> I'm still curious to know which thread is "making the world a better place one affair at a time".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is hilarious. I commend your skill in playing naive.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Served Cold said:


> This is hilarious. I commend your skill in playing naive.


not so fast

she is a blonde after all


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> This is hilarious. I commend your skill in playing naive.


I was actually serious because there is nothing in that thread suggesting anything remotely close.

And AR...don't even start!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Oh, boy. Which thread is THAT?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why not just admit you know which thread is being referred to.

Why play confused, why play the naive card when you're active in that thread.

Just saying


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> not so fast
> 
> she is a blonde after all


Almostrecovered is never sarcastic.....is he?


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> See, that's the thing. She had her anger management issues, so I didn't recognize how remorseful she actually was.
> 
> And I think , at first, she blamed me and my job for the affair.
> 
> ...



So you never accepted blame for her choices and her counsellor showed her the errors of her ways. 

Odd that, your latest thread insinuates that betrayed spouses are in some way responsible for being cheated on. Yet, on this thread you state the opposite.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> So you never accepted blame for her choices and her counsellor showed her the errors of her ways.
> 
> Odd that, your latest thread insinuates that betrayed spouses are in some way responsible for being cheated on. Yet, on this thread you state the opposite.


 I have NEVER, In any post said that the BS is to blame for cheating. Not even once. If you want, you can look at any of my posts, at any time ,since I have been on TAM, and try to find one. And get back to me , if you find one. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> Why not just admit you know which thread is being referred to.
> 
> Why play confused, why play the naive card when you're active in that thread.
> 
> Just saying


Ok...so did you not even bother to read? I was actually being honest as there's nothing in that thread stating such. If you wish to be argumentative, then go internet pick on someone else. I'm not the one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I have NEVER, In any post said that the BS is to blame for cheating. Not even once. If you want, you can look at any of my posts, at any time ,since I have been on TAM, and try to find one. And get back to me , if you find one. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .


I quoted your own words just now in your thread


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Ok...so did you not even bother to read? I was actually being honest as there's nothing in that thread stating such. If you wish to be argumentative, then go internet pick on someone else. I'm not the one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not picking on you. Sorry it bothers you that you that I commend your skill at playing naive.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I have NEVER, In any post said that the BS is to blame for cheating. Not even once. If you want, you can look at any of my posts, at any time ,since I have been on TAM, and try to find one. And get back to me , if you find one. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .


I don't need to hold my breath. I don't double talk.

Here's a direct quote in your own words. I also quoted it on your own thread.

Quote by Rookie4 

"Face it, no BS wants to admit that they might have contributed to the WS's, pre-affair, state of mind. It's easier to play the blame game, instead of a little positive introspection. Blame all of it on the WS or the devil or chance or anything else, but NEVER admit that you as the BS might have a few flaws yourself. The decision to cheat was the WS's , but in many cases, the accessory before the fact is the BS."


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> I don't need to hold my breath. I don't double talk.
> 
> Here's a direct quote in your own words. I also quoted it on your own thread.
> 
> ...



BS aren't welcome to share their opinion on that thread by the same. Don't let that concern you at all. We have a right to post there just as they can post here


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I have NEVER, In any post said that the BS is to blame for cheating. Not even once. If you want, you can look at any of my posts, at any time ,since I have been on TAM, and try to find one. And get back to me , if you find one. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .





Served Cold said:


> I don't need to hold my breath. I don't double talk.
> 
> Here's a direct quote in your own words. I also quoted it on your own thread.
> 
> ...



Can't get much plainer than that. 

The backpedaling is going to be sickeningly weak and frustrating.

Just more of the weird need for attention at any cost. Whether its the "I got cheated on, but now I'm enlightened" or the "I got caught- cutting off my attention ego kibbles- so now I'll be a model reformer"; the common denominator is the need for attention.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

:iagree:

And to back what Forest said, let's just be clear what "accessory before the fact means:

accessory before the fact - definition of accessory before the fact by The Free Dictionary

Hey Rookie - I like what you're doing with the thread, your whole premise. I even the first reply to your thread encouraging it.

But you need to back off A LOT. You're a party to much of the bickering. It simply wouldn't be there if it wasn't for some of your replies. Tone it down so you're not banned again.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> I don't need to hold my breath. I don't double talk.
> 
> Here's a direct quote in your own words. I also quoted it on your own thread.
> 
> ...


 I specifically said PRE-AFFAIR state of mind, didn't I ? And I also said clearly that the decision fo cheat eas the WS's. Didn't I? So try again, maybe you will get it right sooner or later. This is getting funny.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Forest said:


> Can't get much plainer than that.
> 
> The backpedaling is going to be sickeningly weak and frustrating.
> 
> Just more of the weird need for attention at any cost. Whether its the "I got cheated on, but now I'm enlightened" or the "I got caught- cutting off my attention ego kibbles- so now I'll be a model reformer"; the common denominator is the need for attention.


I stated clearly that the decision to cheat was the WS's. You don't agree? So you think that it was somebody else's? I also clearly stated the the BS has a share in the marriage problems. I NEVER said that the BS was at fault for the affair. And so far, for all of your spouting, you haven't been able to prove otherwise. Because I NEVER said it. But keep trying. I get a laugh out of it.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And to back what Forest said, let's just be clear what "accessory before the fact means:
> 
> ...


 I would love to tone it down, Larry. But I won't be lied about. Not by anybody. I have no objection to posters disagreeing with me, but when they make false accusations, I have the right to defend myself.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I specifically said PRE-AFFAIR state of mind, didn't I ? And *I also said clearly that the decision fo cheat eas the WS's. Didn't I?* So try again, maybe you will get it right sooner or later. This is getting funny.


Yes, you did say that, BUT you negated the statement with a loud and clear _but_ - which is what most WS do when they arrive here and want to sound as if they get it; it was all on me, but....


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Yes, you did say that, BUT you negated the statement with a loud and clear _but_ - which is what most WS do when they arrive here and want to sound as if they get it; it was all on me, but....


Yes, I did say "but" .......it negated nothing and was said about marital conditions, and the responsibility for those conditions, before the affair. The decision to cheat is Solely on the WS, no if's , ands, or buts. I think that is generally agreed on. The marital conditions and the contribution to those conditions are on the heads of both the WS and the BS, in varying degrees.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So one pissing match thread wasn't enough?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> So one pissing match thread wasn't enough?


More than enough. But what can you do about the constant vilifying and character assaults.?


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