# Wanting kinky but your spouse is totally vanilla.



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

So I admit I am into a few weird things and a few weird fetishes that totally turn me on, and YES these have all been discussed with my wife and we even tried a few of them the first two years of marriage. But for the past 5 years those turn-ons are all now totally "disgusting" to her and too weird for her tastes, and she is a very vanilla person in the bedroom and she's made it clear that won't change from now on. Hell she fully knows that I have a fetish for pretty feet and hands on a woman and she doesn't even bother keeping those nice anymore, and she even let a $50 gift certificate for a mani/pedi that I got her one Valentines Day - expire(fifty bucks down the drain)!

So am I wrong in thinking that this is going to be a huge problem from now on and that I'll never be fully satisfied and/or fullfilled again??


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> So am I wrong in thinking that this is going to be a huge problem from now on and that I'll never be fully satisfied and/or fullfilled again??


It's a problem for sure, perhaps even a huge one.

The question is what do you want to do about it?

What do you want her to do to change her attitudes?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Don't know how to turn a vanilla woman kinky, but if you figure it out let me know.


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## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Don't know how to turn a vanilla woman kinky, but if you figure it out let me know.


 besides cocaine? Just kidding
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## His_Pixie (Jan 29, 2012)

Vanilla doesn't mean "plain," it means non-kinky. The interpretation of "non-kinky" meaning "plain" I would say is an individual interpretation.


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Well my wife is non kinky, vanilla, basic, mechanical, silent, and basically the worst lay of the century... good luck getting anything to change. I can't. SORRY!


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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

Sounds like some sort of resentment. you said that she used to keep her feet and hands nice, but not anymore. She has stopped meeting that sexual need of yours. You don't say what your other fetishes are, and why she's not comfortable with them. you need to find out WHY she's not comfortable, not just the fact that she doesn't like them.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Shiksa said:


> Sounds like some sort of resentment. you said that she used to keep her feet and hands nice, but not anymore. She has stopped meeting that sexual need of yours. You don't say what your other fetishes are, and why she's not comfortable with them. you need to find out WHY she's not comfortable, not just the fact that she doesn't like them.


I'd rather not say what some of the others are - nothing illegal though(lol); but just put it this way she would have to be someone who is REALLY into weird sex to go along with those but unfortuneatly for me..........she's not. And of the 5 women I have slept with in my life 3 were really really INTO sex and craved it a lot & were willing to explore and experiment, and the other 2 including my wife......not so much.


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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

So, you knew she wasn't super kink and you were ok with it and you married her? It also sounds like she tried, but wasn't comfortable and had to be true to herself and set boundaries. I guess you have to decide if your fetishes are more important than your wife's feelings. If you can't live without your fetishes, your marriage will not survive. If she gives in and does things she is not comfortable with, resent will built and affect other areas of your marriage. She will loose respect for you. Maybe figure out what you get out of the fetishes and see if you can get that in some other format/way?

I crave sex daily, but if my husband had super kink fetishes, I probably would avoid sex since I too am fairly vanilla.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Unhappy2011 said:


> Why do people use vanilla as a description for plain?
> 
> As a Caucasian American, I find this offensive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since you are a caucasian American, no one CARES if _you_ find it offensive

You're roughly the last group that isn't protected by discrimination laws...


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Shiksa said:


> Sounds like some sort of resentment. you said that she used to keep her feet and hands nice, but not anymore. She has stopped meeting that sexual need of yours. You don't say what your other fetishes are, and why she's not comfortable with them. you need to find out WHY she's not comfortable, not just the fact that she doesn't like them.


I agree on the resentment. I'm struggling to think of any other reason why a women would not only not keep her hands and feet nice, but turn down the opportunity to have someone else help out with paying for it:scratchhead:


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol I never herd the term vanilla before. Prude, uptight, shy yeah but never vanilla. Thanks guys learned a new word!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Maybe chocolate should be used in place of kinky. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

if my H had let me tie him up and spank him we might still be together - good job I never brought it up


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

My wife has always been pretty non-kinky but over time I've been able to get her into a little more fun. We've been married 27 years and it takes patience and persistence, but it can be done. Of course I started with a woman who was pretty enthusiastic when it came to "normal" sex. While she rarely initiates, she never says no and gets very wet, very fast. So I knew I was working with potential. I just started with slowly introducing her to porn once in a while, and then we went from there. At this point we've done just about anything you could want. Tieing each other up, home video, sex outdoors, etc...

If you're going to be successful at this though, you have to be the man, be willing to put yourself out there, and make sure that she knows that while you're willing to work with her as a partner, you also have expectations for her that she must rise to. In the beginning I was told that "other women don't do this" and I just replied that "other women don't get to be married to me". It helps that once she begins to loosen up, she finds that all she has been afraid of is a really good time!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Keeping feet and hands pretty is such a small win-win thing to do. The fact that she will not do it may indicate a deep resentment that she is not talking about. How is the rest of the relationship? Are you otherwise happy? 

Have you thought about what might be bothering her? Any unresolved issues? 

If what you want is very specialized,it may be hard to find a partner who likes what you like. Are their any substitutes that may be more mainstream that would satisfy you? 

I think a good thing to do is to drop the request temporarily and pay attention to the state of your relationship. Could you be persistent about finding out what is bothering her? Don't take "nothing" for an answer. 

She is making a pointed effort not to do something that is usually pleasant to do get a manicure and pedicure. Yet, she deny's her self in order to deny you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney already said this. :/


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney already said this. :/


But you added a slew of further, useful information

Seriously, if she's this prepared to cut off her nose to spite her face, you have some premier league resentment going on.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Let her know how much you need this- and then how about a few ****tails first to her up? Some mood music? Sexy lighting? Oysters? Send the kids to grandmas for the night?

Women like to please- but we need to be warmed up first.


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## His_Pixie (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't have any answers except that I hear ya. Hubby and I had a pretty kinky sex life going before marriage. We've been married 8 months now and the kink is GONE. Not of MY choice. I miss it but I think it's just too much effort for him. YES, I have tried to talk to him about it but he gets defensive and hurt. Sigh. So it looks like a life of vanilla sex for me too. It's still good sex but I miss the fun of our kinky days.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm laughing outloud at a lot of the responses and also the fact that we've been *married for 7 years and together for about 8*, but the advice I keep on reading is something you would tell two lovers in their first month of dating or maybe some newlyweds - lol.

As far as problems go YES we are having several problems in the marriage that I have already covered in various threads, and it's been going on for the past 2-3 years and we are talking about counseling in the near future. And YES we have talked about everything that goes on in the bedroom, and it's a place I know my way around quite well and at 46 I have been around the block quite a few times already. But alot of women just aren't kinky lovers and are not into sex as much as men are no matter what you do or say, and I am married to such a person and it just always leaves me feeling a little unfullfilled and wanting more - point blank.


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## jennablu (May 10, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Don't know how to turn a vanilla woman kinky, but if you figure it out let me know.


let her hit her 30's


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Low self esteem. All martyrs secretly have it but its wrapped around an inner core of pathological narcissism.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jennablu said:


> let her hit her 30's


She's 41.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Some women it doesn't take much and both my ex and and a former girlfriend were both horny little she-devils, and all it took was making out for a few minutes and they were already WET and ready to go whenever and wherever! For my wife to get wet and be ready it's about 45 minutes to an hour everytime using the same methods I did on them(that only took about 5 minutes), because before looooong foreplay she is always as dry as toast and wound tighter than a drum. *sigh*


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll ask some impertinent questions- why did you divorce and why didn't you marry the gf? Why did you marry your wife? Was she the same before marriage?


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Some women it doesn't take much and both my ex and and a former girlfriend were both horny little she-devils, and all it took was making out for a few minutes and they were already WET and ready to go whenever and wherever! For my wife to get wet and be ready it's about 45 minutes to an hour everytime using the same methods I did on them(that only took about 5 minutes), because before looooong foreplay she is always as dry as toast and wound tighter than a drum. *sigh*


Well this is your problem, my man. You can't use "the same methods" you used on them. They were horny little she devils, your wife isn't. In fact, I hate to break it to you, but it probably wasn't your methods that were working in the prior relationships! I don't fully get the issue with her 45 minute wind up time, unless you're saying she is completely non responsive during this period. Otherwise if she is responding and you're just jointly working towards her being ready, then I don't see a huge problem
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Unhappy2011 said:


> Why do people use vanilla as a description for plain?
> 
> As a Caucasian American, I find this offensive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want some ebony sex.... that don't sound right either.


not that I don't want some ebony sex but....nevermind.


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## Cherie (May 9, 2012)

JuliaP said:


> Let her know how much you need this- and then how about a few ****tails first to her up? Some mood music? Sexy lighting? Oysters? Send the kids to grandmas for the night?
> 
> Women like to please- but we need to be warmed up first.


:iagree:

Cee, You said you were laughing at some of the advice that was given b/c it sounds like advice for ppl in their first few months of dating, but that is probably half the problem here. Why do people always think it's OK to 'let it go?" Keep the efforts up! My husband and I have been together nearly 10 years and I appreciate him doing the small things that drew me into him and made me fall in love in the first place. I try to do the same for him. It's not always easy and sometimes take effort, but you have to 'treat her like you want to keep her' b/c when that desirable feeling is gone, she will be too, if not at least emotionally. Same goes for men. My hubs LOVES when I go that extra mile - sometimes this includes doing things I don't necessarily want to do (a. sex) but I don't HATE it and I will do it for him b/c he loves it, just as he does things for me.

As far as the actual acts of being kinky goes...give her a drink or two to loosen her up. Works every time. AND I would suggest not trying for a home run the first time. Tell her how important it is to you that you guys BOTH do things that make the other person turned on, and then ask her what it is she likes that you do. 

As far as the 45 mins to warm up? Just bust out the lube! What are you NOT doing that it takes 45 mins to get wet? There is nothing a little saliva can't fix if you get my drift!! 

I used to be Vanilla but with patience and the right person and him having the right attitude about it all, that was fixed. She's probably a freak just waiting to get out of her cage, just don't force it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It all just seems like so much work to get such a simple thing. I want a wife who WANTS to be sexually open. I don't want to have to spend another 10 years making incremental strides. 

My wife is so vanilla that she rolls her eyes and sighs (not in a good way) whenever I want something as simple as doggie. 

People were talking about different terms for this....vanilla, prude etc... I think I'll call it "Little House on the Prairie" sex.


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## Quaintrelle (May 13, 2012)

Ok, I know there are exceptions, and this is a very broad comment, but I wonder too, how much of this vanilla thing is down to how women are brought up. Girls tend to be brought up to be "nice". Be a "nice girl" you're told, don't sl*t around, you want to be the type they marry, not the other type... etc... I think this can morph, whether intentionally or not, into very conservative attitudes towards sex. Being a "nice girl" somehow becomes this weird thing of being a woman who sort of isn't allowed to enjoy sex too much. Nice girls have vanilla sex, it's the sl*ts that do the other stuff. A lifetime of being taught that can be hard to overcome, even when you suddenly find you're an adult in a committed relationship and your partner is telling you the other stuff is ok.

I would think too that if you're a woman who was raised that way, it would be very easy to become conflicted in the bedroom. The other part of this female indoctrination is being raised to be a pleaser, to please others and put yourself last (like the good Mom you're being prepared to be!). So what happens when pleasing your partner means not being that nice girl you were raised to be and having non-vanilla sex? Your brain and emotions go back and forth not knowing what to do until they have a little short circuit. By which time the man has retreated to the X-Box. Or the computer.

As far as I know - and guys, correct me if I'm wrong - boys aren't really indoctrinated into a similar sort of mindset as they're being raised into men. Which leaves your attitude towards sex somewhat more untouched, and probably healthier.


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## Cherie (May 9, 2012)

Suppressed, i disagree. Its a good idea in theory, but I just think sexual preferences are what they are, not learned. Maybe at first with a new partner but not Like the OPs post. Sounds like she has almost gone backwards. I was raised to be a lady and I am, In public. Behind closed doors with a a spouse is another story. I suspect there are other reasons why she doesn't want to do even doggie style with him. 

My mom would freak if she knew I liked anal sex or being tied up. These are not things I've always liked, but things I tried once bc I was open minded, and continue to.do bc my husband likes them and I like them enough to make him happy.


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## Quaintrelle (May 13, 2012)

Cherie said:


> My mom would freak if she knew I liked anal sex or being tied up. These are not things I've always liked, but things I tried once bc I was open minded, and continue to.do bc my husband likes them and I like them enough to make him happy.


AHA! But you see, this is exactly what I'm talking about (and why I said it was a broad comment and that there would be exceptions).

It's great that you're open minded in the bedroom and you do these things to make your H happy. There are many others like you. I just think that there are also a lot of women who, for whatever reason, can never get past the "My mom would freak" / "I'm not supposed to do that" part.

(I must admit, I've gone a little off topic here and am just thinking aloud. I didn't have the OP in mind when I wrote my comment.)


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## Cherie (May 9, 2012)

Suppressed said:


> I must admit, I've gone a little off topic here and am just thinking aloud. I didn't have the OP in mind when I wrote my comment.)


it fits, though.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I dont understand women who wont indulge in foot play. I mean...if your lazy you dont even have to do much to get your man off except keep your feet nice...

With all of the crapidy crap crap causing my wife not to want to have sex...at the very least she keeps her feet nice and lets me have unlimited access to them.

Sounds like resentment. Make sure you're not completely focused on the feet and incorporate all of her in your lovemaking and you should be fine. If you already do that...I feel bad for you.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I'll ask some impertinent questions- why did you divorce and why didn't you marry the gf? Why did you marry your wife? Was she the same before marriage?


That's a whole other 5 page thread on just this alone; but in short the girlfriend I spoke of was 15 years ago and she wasn't marrying material at the time and neither was I, and the ex had many many problems and some of which were covered by me already in the manic depressive/bi-polar thread(which explains a lot right there). And I married my wife because she is smart, pretty, a nice person, and has her sh*t together which is what I was looking for at that stage in my life.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Cherie said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Cee, You said you were laughing at some of the advice that was given b/c it sounds like advice for ppl in their first few months of dating, but that is probably half the problem here. Why do people always think it's OK to 'let it go?" Keep the efforts up! My husband and I have been together nearly 10 years and I appreciate him doing the small things that drew me into him and made me fall in love in the first place. I try to do the same for him. It's not always easy and sometimes take effort, but you have to 'treat her like you want to keep her' b/c when that desirable feeling is gone, she will be too, if not at least emotionally. Same goes for men. My hubs LOVES when I go that extra mile - sometimes this includes doing things I don't necessarily want to do (a. sex) but I don't HATE it and I will do it for him b/c he loves it, just as he does things for me.
> 
> ...


Lol, see there you go again Cherie with things that I have already tried and learned about 20 years ago like most people my age have(remember - 46 yrs old not 26). So what's next, how to get to 3rd base and how to properly use a condom when I get any further - lol/jk? :rofl:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

3leafclover said:


> Oh, I haven't tried this one yet. I love new roleplays. I wonder where I can find a prairie dress and a bonnet.
> 
> I wonder how come there are so many cases in which sexual incompatibility isn't discovered until after marriage. I'm sure it's probably a mix of different factors. This is why I think lots of sex before marriage is a great idea for adults.


I love the prairie dress. 

The post marital sexual incompatibility seems to be a problem with expectation. Our expectations of what a spouse should be seems, in many ways, to be unrealistic to me. 

Some Women want a man who can make her life financially secure which is difficuot in this economy. Some women are unrealistic in tyeir expectations and not so nice when they are not forthcoming. 

Some Men want a sexually uninhibited woman who has had few or no partners and who has the desire to please him sexuallly and exclusivly. 

The sexual requirements for women are specific and are not neccessarily gear to her specific likes and dislikes. She has to sublimate her personal preferences to be a successful woman which means attractive to men. 

The pressure to fit the mold of a woman worth being loved is difficult for some woman to sustain. They are able to do it for a while but maturity and self assurance may change what they want to do. Men don't react to these changes very well. 

. I don't think most woman present the required persona in an attempt to deceive but to please.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

But why didn't he just go for it? That called a small step in the right direction. He would have been smart if he accepted that as a step and not an affront. 

That is a problem - impatience, and the expectation of getting what you want without allowing the other person to take small steps. 

What your friend did was to convince his partner that it was not safe for her to try anything with him because she may incurr his displeasure if she did not do exactly as he wanted. 

I can't understand why people think that changes should take place all at once, no matter how large. The expectation that an inhibited woman will turn a dime is naive to me. Inthink he is a bad lover. If this man you speak of is unhappy with his sex life then he is at fault. He failed not his wife. 

He failed to be patient, provide a safe and accepting environment for her to grow and make mistakes. In addition, he seems to thinks he is entitled to have what he wants when he wants it with very little effort. 

I am certain he got a lot of sympathy from unenlightened men. Men who are less ready to be angry and who have realistic expectations are not so sympathetic. 

I'll bet He has preconceived notions about woman so he assumed that her inhibition was an inherent immutable female characteristic. So he got to complain about her and feel superior about being more open than she sexually. I am sure that worked well for him. 

If he viewed her as an individual, he would have realized he had to go slower and be patient and that would have had a positive effect on her.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

If you knew him I don't think you would make the comments about him that you did.

They have had about 15 years together and if she's not comfortable with him, I can see how he'd have taken offense.

Her response was not of opening up, but of sidestepping erotic interplay.

She's a grown woman. She had to know that what she spoke of was pretty lame. Seemed an intentional thing to him.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

He interprets her discomfort as intentional? How does he get to that conclusion? My interpretation is that it she is sexually repressed and she is not married to the right man. If she had a man with a positive confident flexible masculinity, she might be further along. Being married to a man who thinks that it is alright to trash talk his wife in front of his buddies is probably difficult for her. I don't think she should change for him. He betrays her by discussing such private things about her and he makes her look bad.. 

I would say that he is the one who has been married to her for 15yrs and he has not gotten to know her yet. Putting in time with the same partner does not majically make a repressed woman sexually confident. In fact, with a judgemental man who talks about their intimate problems with other men, might make her clam up even more. Knowing her every sexual move is foder for discussion by his friends would stun any woman into inaction. 

She is a grown woman with the same inhibitions that have plagued her until this time. What is lame to him, is a big deal to her appearently. It should actually be a big deal for them both. If he were empathetic and less judgemental, he might have been able to help her overcome her inhibitions over 15 yrs. instead he talks about her and assigns blame. 

There is nothing wrong with his wife. She is a good girl. Didn't he marry her because she suppressed her sexuality in her formative years? Then he got what he wanted, a woman who is skilled at supressing her enjoyment of sex. He can't have it both ways and he can't blame her for a choice he made freely. He was foolish to think that she should enjoy sex only when it benefited him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> He interprets her discomfort as intentional? How does he get to that conclusion? My interpretation is that it she is sexually repressed and she is not married to the right man. If she had a man with a positive confident flexible masculinity, she might be further along. Being married to a man who thinks that it is alright to trash talk his wife in front of his buddies is probably difficult for her. I don't think she should change for him. He betrays her by discussing such private things about her and he makes her look bad..
> 
> I would say that he is the one who has been married to her for 15yrs and he has not gotten to know her yet. Putting in time with the same partner does not majically make a repressed woman sexually confident. In fact, with a judgemental man who talks about their intimate problems with other men, might make her clam up even more. Knowing her every sexual move is foder for discussion by his friends would stun any woman into inaction.
> 
> ...


the horse you ride is tall hope you never fall off.


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## Cherie (May 9, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Lol, see there you go again Cherie with things that I have already tried and learned about 20 years ago like most people my age have(remember - 46 yrs old not 26). So what's next, how to get to 3rd base and how to properly use a condom when I get any further - lol/jk? :rofl:


Women aren't all about the physical. Are you treating her like you want to keep her? Are you doing things you did to attract her in the beginning? IMO it's not fair when a spouse stops. It's like false advertising. if you missed that part of my post, it was a waste of my time.

If the approaches you are taking and the approaches people are telling you are not working, then you're SOL and your wife is an ice cube, or you just don't do it for her. Good luck to you with that one.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> the horse you ride is tall hope you never fall off.


I have fallen off numerous times. I get up and get back on and work in my riding skills. I expect a lot of myself and I need lots of hard work to get there.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I do think it's important to recognize the difference between incremental progress and side-stepping. Catherine's advice is probably pretty good for the first few years of marriage. But I don't think that creating a comfortable environment will lead to any real gains in the long run. It's much more likely to create complacency.

A man's patience can only go so far. Creating a safe nurturing comfortable bedroom and building trust for years sounds great. But if you do all those things and decades later you've seen no change, well, it's time to either move on or shake things up a bit. People only grow when they're pushed.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I love the prairie dress.
> 
> The post marital sexual incompatibility seems to be a problem with expectation. Our expectations of what a spouse should be seems, in many ways, to be unrealistic to me.
> 
> ...


I agree that the problem is with expectations, but not in the way you propose. I tend to think of it as an immaturity problem on the part of repressed spouses. They have the mindset of "it's dirty", etc. and then compound it with "my wants are more important than his / hers, so I don't have to do it at all". They take what should be a loving and giving act and see it as a referendum of themselves as people (I am dirty if I do this).

I like Dr. Schnarch's take on this. I've read Passionate Marriage, and I believe it is mentioned in Intimacy and Desire as well. Essentially, the person being denied needs to be steadfast and true to himself / herself and force a decision point for the repressed spouse - grow up and be 100% present in the relationship or risk losing it.

The part about women's wants is a bit of a red herring. The problem is that the woman's needs cannot be met by the man on his own. He needs to have a relatively uncommon skill set and somebody willing to hire him. If he simply is not talented in the right way and cannot convince someone to hire him, he is incapable of providing that lifestyle. But almost all women (and men) are born with the equipment necessary to provide a good sex life. All that is needed is a bit of education, willingness to please, and a minimal investment in time (a few hours a week).

Also, most of us are not sublimating a woman's preferences with our own. We are merely seeking to be on equal footing. Somewhere along the way, many of us came to believe that if a woman's sexual preferences are preeminent 100% of the time that is merely appropriate sex, and that a 50/50 split between his wants and hers is inappropriate if not abusive.

The reason men don't accept sexual changes very well is that (1) there is an implicit element of deception and (2) such changes are generally imposed and not negotiated. Sex is put on a pedestal and proclaimed to be sacred - not subject to the same rules of give and take as other marriage issues. Repressed spouses are quick to take back and deny sex because they no longer want to have it but are reluctant to admit that forgoing a satisfying sex life is a significant sacrifice deserving an equally large sacrifice.

Whether the deception is done from a willingness to please or simply for deception per se, it is deception nonetheless. Both men and women sacrifice in marriage. You either make the necessary sacrifices, wait for someone to come along for whom minimal sacrifices are required, or stay single. If you agree to conform, realize you did so willingly and honor your commitment; don't rail about how unfair the system is or how the deception is understandable (if not acceptable). No one is entitled to lie to another person like this for personal gain - period. There is no outcome of marriage so great as to make this acceptable.

Personally, I can tell you there is a huge difference between someone who says "I said I would, but now I won't, and if you don't like it I'll see you in court" and one who contritely says "I'm very sorry I misrepresented myself, I realize I am asking for a big sacrifice in asking you to accomodate me in this manner, _tell me what else I can do for you to make it not seem one-sided_."


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I do think it's important to recognize the difference between incremental progress and side-stepping. Catherine's advice is probably pretty good for the first few years of marriage. But I don't think that creating a comfortable environment will lead to any real gains in the long run. It's much more likely to create complacency.
> 
> A man's patience can only go so far. Creating a safe nurturing comfortable bedroom and building trust for years sounds great. But if you do all those things and decades later you've seen no change, well, it's time to either move on or shake things up a bit. People only grow when they're pushed.


Agree.

Would add that if a repressed woman is going to open up, it probably will start to happen within the first few months of the relationship. Otherwise it won't happen at all.

This is based on personal experience and reading about it on this site and othes.

There is a huge difference between nurturing a satisfying sexual relationship, and always having an uphill battle because the other person does not want to meet you halfway.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> He interprets her discomfort as intentional? How does he get to that conclusion?


I feel it's slightly disingenous to believe that someone can't tell the difference between:

"I'll do something I don't like and am not very comfortable with because I love you" and

"I'm doing this, under protest, and wish to send the very clear message that I find the mere fact that you asked me to do it deplorable".


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I would say that he is the one who has been married to her for 15yrs and he has not gotten to know her yet. Putting in time with the same partner does not majically make a repressed woman sexually confident.


No, it doesn't. At the end of the day, nobody can make anyone else self-confident, sexually or otherwise. That HAS to come from within. I agree he can build a climate she can learn confidence in, but unless she wants to do it, it doesn't happen.

In the final analysis, he can make matters much better, or much worse. But the result itself is within her gift, not his.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> He interprets her discomfort as intentional? How does he get to that conclusion? My interpretation is that it she is sexually repressed and she is not married to the right man. If she had a man with a positive confident flexible masculinity, she might be further along. Being married to a man who thinks that it is alright to trash talk his wife in front of his buddies is probably difficult for her. I don't think she should change for him. He betrays her by discussing such private things about her and he makes her look bad..
> 
> I would say that he is the one who has been married to her for 15yrs and he has not gotten to know her yet. Putting in time with the same partner does not majically make a repressed woman sexually confident. In fact, with a judgemental man who talks about their intimate problems with other men, might make her clam up even more. Knowing her every sexual move is foder for discussion by his friends would stun any woman into inaction.
> 
> ...


Really? He was foolish to want his wife to enjoy sex?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

OP, I feel your pain...my H who loooooves porn, is pretty 'vanilla'...I try to get him doing new things, but it's really all on me. He might go along with certain ideas, but he certainly won't try something new on his own. I think they're just wired one way, and it's almost impossible to get them to change.


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## soconfused1984 (Apr 19, 2012)

just have her read: "fifty shades of grey" by L.E. James.....if that doesn't work...then you read it...it has worked for every woman i now who has read it lol!!!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney 

I think that a man who marries a good girl and avoids women who enjoy their sexuality gets what he wanted . He may expect his good girl to pop open like a [email protected] in-the-box just in time to eeeefff him silly. But does that really seem reasonable? 

Men are much more uninhibited with their sexuality and they enjoy it with the blessing of our culture. Who better to lead an that inhibited woman he loves to the enjoyment of her sexuality. If he is willing to take the responsibility to do it lovingly and with patience. 

He can do that or or sit and rage against her when she does not perform like the woman he did not marry. 

I know what I am talking about. I was like this men's wife when I got married. I am relatively uninhibited now. I still have work to do but it has been a satisfying and fun journey of discovery. 

I cannot credit myself though. My husband was patient and never angry with me. Every little timid step I made he acted as if I made his day. I look back and cringe because I was so pathetic. He was great and still is. 

I felt safe to make mistakes or to feel uncomfortable. I knew we would just laugh about it and try again. If he got angry and frustrated, we probably would not still be married.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Cherie said:


> Women aren't all about the physical. Are you treating her like you want to keep her? Are you doing things you did to attract her in the beginning? IMO it's not fair when a spouse stops. It's like false advertising. if you missed that part of my post, it was a waste of my time.
> 
> If the approaches you are taking and the approaches people are telling you are not working, then you're SOL and your wife is an ice cube, or you just don't do it for her. Good luck to you with that one.


Speaking from experiences a lot of times couples do things in the very beginning of their marriage or relationship that they may not enjoy so much, but they wanna get things started on a really good note but later on that all begins to taper off sometimes. And my wife is just not the wild/kinky type and trust me I have tried all the achohol, foreplay, and pillow talk that I could possibly do to bring it all out buuuuut - ain't happening. **SIGH**


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think there is a big difference between sexual timidity and passive hostility and anger over sharing an assertively intimate moment.

It's a very complex form of rejection.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> This thread makes me feel so dang lucky. I knew my partner was the wild/kinky type or I never would have entered into a committed relationship with her, but there are some activities I've discovered interest in over the years that she initially had very little personal interest in. Not only has she always been willing to try pretty much anything, but she never fails to grow to enjoy anything that brings me enjoyment. It becomes exciting to her because it excites me. This is important to me because I would never be satisfied with a sexual partner just participating for my benefit only if they were getting no pleasure from the act themselves. If they don't want to be participating, then I don't want them to participate. Distaste from them or reluctance borne of distaste during kinky sex would be an automatic and complete turn-off, making continuing pointless since then nobody would be having any fun.
> 
> My partner doesn't just do things I like to get me off. She gets off on doing things to get me off, and vice versa. I can't imagine any other way. Oh, wait, yes I can. It was very different with my ex-husband, more like the way some wives are described in this thread. He was too vanilla. So let me rephrase: I wouldn't settle for any other way. I made that promise to myself after my divorce. I was tempted to break it a time or two, but I'm glad I didn't. However, the divorce wasn't my choice, so if he hadn't ended it, I could see myself here complaining about how very vanilla he still is now after 14 years.


I knew that she was kind of the nerdy and conservative type when we first met, but she was pretty - smart - had a good heart - and a good job and had her sh*t together; so I was willing to sacrifice a few things here and there to marry this girl. But damnnnnn do I miss the old wild sex days I had with my ex(two years before I met my wife)because she would get into just about anything, but unfortuneatly that is ALL that my ex had to offer and outside of that she was a complete mess and emotionally unstable! :banghead:


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I knew that she was kind of the nerdy and conservative type when we first met


Nerdy and conservative doesn't mean they can't get their freak on in the bedroom.

Tell her she has no excuse lol! I joke, but seriously neither of those things have to have a bearing in the bedroom.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Lol @ 3leafclover! Well unfortuneatly she is still the same; but God bless her she did try in the first few years and I did everything to make her feel comfortable with it all, but it still felt as uncomfortable as a devout mormon in a dance contest. So I guess my kinky fantasies will have to be handled inside of my head(the one on my shoulders).............for now.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Unfortunately success stories for turning a long term prude into a freak are few and far between. I haven't read any. Catherine pointed me to dailygrind's thread as an example, and I agree they were successful at bringing sex and love back from the brink, but I didn't see anything there about her changing her fundamental views on sex or her inhibitions. I'm beginning to think you have a very short window with a new lover to affect these changes. 

There are a couple women on here who lost there inhibitions, like SA and maybe Catherine, but I'm not convinced at all that this happened because of anything their husbands did. Those changes came largely from within and at an age where hormones often change. 

I think the only chance lies in creating an uncomfortable environment where she believes she'll need to step it up or be left. Or wait for the possibility that natural hormone changes will change her for you. Love and support will never be enough to change her and will actually creat an environment that fosters complacency. After all, why improve if your man seems happy and loving.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney
> 
> I think that a man who marries a good girl and avoids women who enjoy their sexuality gets what he wanted . He may expect his good girl to pop open like a [email protected] in-the-box just in time to eeeefff him silly. But does that really seem reasonable?


FWIW, I never thought this idea had any sort of legs at all. However, it refuses to go away. Hell, it's a staple of Athol Kay's method even!



> Men are much more uninhibited with their sexuality and they enjoy it with the blessing of our culture. Who better to lead an that inhibited woman he loves to the enjoyment of her sexuality. If he is willing to take the responsibility to do it lovingly and with patience.
> 
> He can do that or or sit and rage against her when she does not perform like the woman he did not marry.
> 
> ...


Right. YOU were willing to BE LED. You didn't say "I don't care what you think, I know I'm right and it'll be a cold day in hell before I even think about trying anything different, so it's my way or the highway". 

You were willing to make little timid steps. If you were unwilling to make any sort of step because you knew it was "wrong" and he was a brute for even suggesting it, no matter how patiently, how much progress do you think there would be.

You were willing to make mistakes and feel uncomfortable, in a forgiving, safe environment. What about if you were totally unwilling to ever make a mistake or show any vulnerability whatsoever?

In those cases, how much would patience and praise achieve? 

Don't do yourself down. No matter how much your husband praised and supported you and showed patience with your rate of progress, it was YOU that decided to make progress. It was YOU that decided to do it. He didn't. He helped you, but YOU did it. This is what I keep saying: you can only help someone who is willing to help themselves. You cannot create self-esteem, sexual or otherwise, in someone who is utterly unwilling to make any effort. Someone else can piss all over that effort and ruin it, but just by supporting and showing patience, the other person won't achieve the result.


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