# Is it normal to make a decision and then waffle back and forth?



## LilMissSunshine

So in my mind I know how bad things have continued to be over an extended period (six years), and it has taken a lot of counseling (individual - he will NOT go even after knowing how serious this is) and contemplation. I get myself to the point of being sure that I want to leave, and start mentally preparing, to the point of even telling him once (to which he replied "go ahead and go" - didn't even try to get me to stay - which I'm not sure what that says, but I think I know), only to revert back after looking at old photos, watching old videos, reading letters and cards, etc. Then I'm right back where I started.

Is "considering divorce" a true roller coaster ride with emotions or is it just me? And if it's just me, how might one deal with feelings that are all over the place? Mainly what gets me back in the "do I really want to do this" frame of mind is asking myself if there was "just one more thing" I should try since I have been told by him that it is ME that is causing all of the problems. I know there are always 2 people involved and both have a role, but with him, he insists it is ONLY ME that has the problem, and I buy into it thinking "but what if there IS one more thing I can try." That, and seeing old mementos, does me in.

Any suggestions for me?


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## jsb

I go back and forth with my decision too. What does your counselor say? Have you told him/her that you can't make up your mind about divorce?


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## Bananapeel

It's normal to vascilate because you are going through the stages of grief when you end a marriage and your emotions are not constant.


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## SentHereForAReason

Question #1, are you still in counseling?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Put down your pros and cons in list form.

And keep a journal of day to day life / interactions. 

It's normal to go back and forth for a time but the fact you continue to go back and forth is itself telling a tale.

Having a journal you can refer to will help.

Good luck!


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## Mr. Nail

Personally I only want to file when I think seriously about it. From day to day, I just don't care that much. Perhaps I'm too much like your husband. If my wife came home tomorrow morning and said, "I've been having an affair for 6 months, and next week I want to move to Mexico with him", I think My reply would be "well don't let the door slap your ass on the way out." Old pictures don't bring back missing feelings for me.


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## Tex X

Funny but sad that people always think "if I just tried that one more thing then everything would be great". As you mentioned in your post, it takes 2 people to make a marriage work. It sounds like you've been trying hard, but you're just talking to a brick wall (your husband). 6 years is a long time to be miserable in a relationship. I mean a really long time. Also, if he won't accept responsibility for any of the issues in your marriage while blaming you for everything, then he is pretty ignorant, and quite honestly not worthy of you. 

I was married for 19 years. The last 10 years of my marriage were absolutely miserable. I stayed because of the commitment to my family (poor decision). I thought the same thing as you - maybe I haven't tried everything yet. Yet everything I tried, nothing got better. I finally said F it and started focusing on myself. Lost weight, ate better, having more fun in life, but marriage still in the tank. When I finally started talking to my ex about her role in all of this and how we can come together to fix "us" (from a more healthy viewpoint than before), she bailed out and wanted a divorce. I was messed up for awhile, but I got over it pretty quickly. I've never been happier.

Don't waste your life on a miserable relationship, especially with someone who is not willing to put in the work. Life is way too short for that, and it will destroy your soul. You deserve to be happy.


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## BluesPower

Listen, you have posted a lot about this relationship. 

As far as I can tell he is not listening and I don't think that he ever will. 

You are miserable, you are not getting enough sex, it is just time to end it. 

The longer you wait the longer it takes to get though it and start a new life...


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## Openminded

Fear of the unknown can do that.


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## turnera

My IC had me write down a list of things that I would like/expect in a dream marriage. My husband doesn't interrupt me when I talk. My husband takes care of a house project when I ask him. My husband does his share of chores if we both work full time. My husband doesn't cheat on me. My husband asks for my advice and actually considers it when making a decision. My husband doesn't yell at me. 

Things like that. She said to make out a full list and then compare my husband to the one in that list. If he's not at least substantially that man, I should ask myself why I am staying - what is my payoff? And is that payoff worth the mental anguish I have to go through, the losing of my soul day by day?


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## She'sStillGotIt

LilMissSunshine said:


> ...to the point of even telling him once (to which he replied "go ahead and go" - didn't even try to get me to stay - which I'm not sure what that says, but I think I know)....


I'm not trying to be snarky, but are you kidding when you say you "weren't sure" what this guy meant when he TOLD you to go ahead and leave, and he didn't even ask you to stay?

What's confusing or vague about _*that*_?

I get the impression you've been wasting years of your life and money in therapy using it as an excuse to avoid making an actual decision then sticking with it. You don't need a shrink to tell you when it's time to leave; people have known for YEARS when it's time. And the catalyst that should have sent you on your way was when Mr. Wonderful told you to leave if you wanted to leave, and he didn't even try to get you to stay.

*That* was your definitive answer as to whether your marriage is worth saving. 

Instead, you keep stalling by looking at pictures and videos and you continue clinging like grim death to a man whose made it pretty clear that he's fine with divorce. I just don't get how much more clearer this needs to be for you. I honestly believe you're being purposely obtuse so you don't have to face the truth. 



> Any suggestions for me?


Yes, your therapist is sending all her kids to college with all the money you've wasted there year after year because you're too afraid to make an adult decision on your own. Believe it or not, many of us have managed to decide to divorce without having to go to a shrink. You're using therapy as a stalling maneuver because as long as you're 'working things out in therapy,' you get to stay in limbo and not have to make any decisions. How many *more* years are you going to milk that before you finally put on your big girl pants and make an adult decision?


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## turnera

Is your therapist having you work on your self esteem? Because that's the issue here. You believing you don't deserve better than the sh*t sandwich is the real issue here.


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## Deejo

Here is what I can tell you from my experience.

With any life event like this, people fundamentally WANT to choose the thing that offers the least pain and consequences. Said another way, 'better the devil you know, then the devil you don't.' This is a big part of why people stay in bad marriages, because they imagine that life outside of that bad marriage will be even worse.

Pulling the trigger on divorce is a big deal.

Despite years of a decaying, joyless, intimately vacant marriage, 2 shots at counseling (both precipitated by me), and my explicitly telling her that I was going to leave if nothing changed, she simply believed that I wouldn't, (in relating to your husbands comment). She didn't think I would possibly 'abandon' her and our 2 children. Truth be told, I didn't want to be that guy either.

But I did.

And yes it was hard, and painful and confusing. 

Yes there were attempts at reconciliation. None of them lasted beyond a few weeks.

Much like you have very clearly outlined about your husband; my now ex-wife was never going to be the kind of woman engaged with and committed to the idea of serving the relationship and meeting my needs. She couldn't do it. And in hindsight, I don't really blame her for that. She flat out doesn't have the tools to pull it off.

My separation and divorce is now 10 years in the rear view mirror.

I have a very positive and respectful co-parenting relationship with my ex-wife.

She has a longterm partner. I am remarried. 

Your life is going to change one way or the other. You need to decide if you want to be the architect of that change, or a passive observer.

Do remember in almost any challenge we face, and particularly big life challenges, the thing that stands between you and the outcome or results you want, is fear. Push through that, and accomplish the things you imagine.

I don't think anyone here who supports you has any question about what the right choice for you is. We just can't make it for you. But we will have your back whatever that choice may be.


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## LilMissSunshine

I am reading and absorbing EVERYTHING................I know this is ALL on me. I have been reading a lot on emotional abuse and I truly believe his anger management/verbal assaults as well as his 'crazy making' (i.e., trying to convince me of things I know never happened, never said and things like that) are emotional abuse. I've learned about Stockholm Syndrome (not saying that's what is going on here, just explains why people put up with others who have abused and mistreated them)..............I don't want this to go on forever, but I am SCARED, friends..............SCARED. Mostly of being financially destitute, leaving because of lack of affection and never finding it after going through the trauma of leaving (would have been better off to just STAY and at least not have to worry about breaking up my household/kids, finances, etc.). But I know this is ALL on me and that every day I say is another day GONE.


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## turnera

How many billion men are there on this planet? The odds of you NOT being able to find a better guy than an abuser are infinitesimal.

And besides, once you are divorced, you're going to need to be spending a lot of time learning who YOU are before you're ready to even consider looking for another partner. 

In the meantime, read the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men by Bancroft. It will help you understand what you've been going through more than any other book I know.


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## sunsetmist

LilMissSunshine said:


> I am reading and absorbing EVERYTHING................I know this is ALL on me. I have been reading a lot on emotional abuse and I truly believe his anger management/verbal assaults as well as his 'crazy making' (i.e., trying to convince me of things I know never happened, never said and things like that) are emotional abuse. I've learned about Stockholm Syndrome (not saying that's what is going on here, just explains why people put up with others who have abused and mistreated them)..............I don't want this to go on forever, but I am SCARED, friends..............SCARED. Mostly of being financially destitute, leaving because of lack of affection and never finding it after going through the trauma of leaving (would have been better off to just STAY and at least not have to worry about breaking up my household/kids, finances, etc.). But I know this is ALL on me and that every day I say is another day GONE.


Every human needs to feel valued--don't diminish the importance of this need. 

"Would have been better off to just stay..." That means accepting emotional abuse as allowable--don't do this.

Most who have been through major life chaos have been scared. You have agonized for some time now. 

In five years, will you be better off if you stayed or if you left?


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## Uselessmale

@LilMissSunshine, Dec 31, 2017, I promised myself that I would not be in the same situation I was in, at the end of 2018. I started IC and pushed the MC on us. In July , still feeling miserable I moved out. I am in a better place for me, mattress on the floor, no furniture, tv on boxes. I’m good. Started going to church again, joined a divorce care group last week.. have been very lonely past two weeks, I’m told hang on it will get better. I’m hanging. Being lonely alone is much better than being lonely and married. I come to TAM sometimes to complain, when I do, I get support, chastised (in a good way), and reminded why I’m here. Your story has reminded me what I have left behind. You just have to decide to do it. You are stronger than you think. Leave and I promise you will Be better off.


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## Oldtimer

Ah waffling, it’s a situation few like to find themselves in, but there are some excellent points made by folks in here. There are the fears that you have and they are not to be taken lightly. Check your options, get your ducks in a row and I would bet you see a light at the end of the tunnel. My wife left, “to find herself” and swore she would help with our four teenage sons.

I pulled the trigger two weeks after and asked for a divorce. My pension was used to support myself and kids after losing a lucrative job. I still suffer the financial setbacks, but am happy. I’m glad I didn’t waffle when I made the decision and my kids are grown with their own families. 

As turnera says find yourself and I bet you will see the beautiful person you are when you do. Regarding your kids, there are good men out there who will be willing to become involved with a person with “baggage” two of my sons came with their mother when we married, they stayed with “dad” (me). I use the term baggage with tongue in cheek as I perceive my sons as presents.

I hope things turn out well for you and family.

By the way, I’ve remarried and have been with my wife for 17 years, she brought another 3 “ presents “ into my life.


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## Cooper

Human endurance is incredible, your relationship has evolved to where you are stressed and miserable everyday yet you just keep enduring. Do you think there's a trophy at the end? There's not trust me, I would have won it. lol. The trophy is deciding to stop living life in misery, start focusing that energy on making yourself happy. We all waffle at times, emotions can blind us to logical solutions, divorce is a big deal, but sometimes it's the best deal.


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## cma62

Women try to leave abusive marriages on average 7 times before they get out for good
Sooner or later, the pain of staying is going to outweigh the pain of leaving.
You deserve better, he doesn’t deserve you.
Take some time to find yourself again.
Abuse rewires the brain....you need to find the old you again without another man in the picture.
You have allowed all the toxic behaviour to become your new normal....it’s not....it’s all very sick


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## LilMissSunshine

I specifically remember saying the same thing re: Christmas 2016 - that I wouldn't be in the same place Christmas 2017. And I was. And it's looking like I will again this year because I don't want to have major stuff going on with the kids during the holidays. But I seriously am going to make an effort to NOT be in that position Christmas 2019. It's crazy I just keep pushing the bar further into the future. I need to be braver. Staying is the easy choice. But yet it eats away at my self-esteem and feelings of worth as a wife - and I MISS that physical touch. I am a very touchy-feely person and I crave it. I feel like I am losing more and more of myself. I know I don't need to let another year go by. I'm glad you are doing well, Uselessmale. These situations are nOT for the faint of heart!



Uselessmale said:


> @LilMissSunshine, Dec 31, 2017, I promised myself that I would not be in the same situation I was in, at the end of 2018. I started IC and pushed the MC on us. In July , still feeling miserable I moved out. I am in a better place for me, mattress on the floor, no furniture, tv on boxes. I’m good. Started going to church again, joined a divorce care group last week.. have been very lonely past two weeks, I’m told hang on it will get better. I’m hanging. Being lonely alone is much better than being lonely and married. I come to TAM sometimes to complain, when I do, I get support, chastised (in a good way), and reminded why I’m here. Your story has reminded me what I have left behind. You just have to decide to do it. You are stronger than you think. Leave and I promise you will Be better off.


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## LilMissSunshine

Wow, Oldtimer, you have really re-made your life. That's impressive. One of my kids is 18 and in college, and the other one is still home but will be flying the nest in a few short years, so it isn't like I have a house full of little kids. By the time I would actually be out there, I probably won't have any kids at home, so maybe that's a "+" on my side. I think sometimes I am just TOO practical. Not everything has to be planned out to the nth degree. Planning IS important, but to an extent.............there is a thing as overdoing it, and I think that's what I am doing. I do appreciate the support I get here and hearing success stories like yours makes me a little less anxious. Thank you for your post!



Oldtimer said:


> Ah waffling, it’s a situation few like to find themselves in, but there are some excellent points made by folks in here. There are the fears that you have and they are not to be taken lightly. Check your options, get your ducks in a row and I would bet you see a light at the end of the tunnel. My wife left, “to find herself” and swore she would help with our four teenage sons.
> 
> I pulled the trigger two weeks after and asked for a divorce. My pension was used to support myself and kids after losing a lucrative job. I still suffer the financial setbacks, but am happy. I’m glad I didn’t waffle when I made the decision and my kids are grown with their own families.
> 
> As turnera says find yourself and I bet you will see the beautiful person you are when you do. Regarding your kids, there are good men out there who will be willing to become involved with a person with “baggage” two of my sons came with their mother when we married, they stayed with “dad” (me). I use the term baggage with tongue in cheek as I perceive my sons as presents.
> 
> I hope things turn out well for you and family.
> 
> By the way, I’ve remarried and have been with my wife for 17 years, she brought another 3 “ presents “ into my life.


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## Uselessmale

@LilMissSunshine. You hit on the thing I miss the most, and haven’t been getting for along time, the touchy-feely stuff. Hugging sitting close, I want someone to wrap her arms around bc she wants to, not bc it is a duty. My self esteem is coming back out of all the things that I lost that was the worst. Hang in there, don’t lose yourself, I know how that feels. Still can’t talk to her about some things, but I’m getting stronger. I know where you are emotionally and how you feel. I’ll be thinking about you daily. You can do it. I know bc I’m doing it now not easy but it’s better than it was. Stay strong.


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## Uselessmale

@LilMissSunshine. You hit on the thing I miss the most, and haven’t been getting for along time, the touchy-feely stuff. Hugging sitting close, I want someone to wrap her arms around bc she wants to, not bc it is a duty. My self esteem is coming back out of all the things that I lost that was the worst.  Hang in there, don’t lose yourself, I know how that feels. Still can’t talk to her about some things, but I’m getting stronger. I know where you are emotionally and how you feel. I’ll be thinking about you daily. You can do it. I know bc I’m doing it now not easy but it’s better than it was. Stay strong.


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## LilMissSunshine

I keep thinking about these words..........."Every human needs to feel valued".............that is so true. And if we don't take care of ourselves, sometimes others won't. And abuse is NEVER acceptable. I cannot lose sight of that.



sunsetmist said:


> Every human needs to feel valued--don't diminish the importance of this need.
> 
> "Would have been better off to just stay..." That means accepting emotional abuse as allowable--don't do this.
> 
> Most who have been through major life chaos have been scared. You have agonized for some time now.
> 
> In five years, will you be better off if you stayed or if you left?


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## LilMissSunshine

YES, at some point, it may outweigh it................and you know what? I still have trouble considering myself as 'abused'.............I always think it's just the physical abuse that is abuse - but I KNOW better. Just don't always remember it. I remember after some of his episodes, I was "not right" for days (as in, not being able to go out of the house without crying, couldn't put two sentences together, etc.). I might not have been bruised or had something broken, but something inside was sure "broken" and i was NOT a capable, functioning person. Wow - 7 times. I believe it. There is something that just makes it hard, as crazy as that sounds.



cma62 said:


> Women try to leave abusive marriages on average 7 times before they get out for good
> Sooner or later, the pain of staying is going to outweigh the pain of leaving.
> You deserve better, he doesn’t deserve you.
> Take some time to find yourself again.
> Abuse rewires the brain....you need to find the old you again without another man in the picture.
> You have allowed all the toxic behaviour to become your new normal....it’s not....it’s all very sick


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## LilMissSunshine

Thank you so much, Uselessmale. Only someone who has been through it can truly understand. The emotions, the wanting something 'normal' and the trying to get your self-esteem back. It is hard. I'm glad you are getting stronger. And now you are encouraging others. That's something to be proud of! )



Uselessmale said:


> @LilMissSunshine. You hit on the thing I miss the most, and haven’t been getting for along time, the touchy-feely stuff. Hugging sitting close, I want someone to wrap her arms around bc she wants to, not bc it is a duty. My self esteem is coming back out of all the things that I lost that was the worst. Hang in there, don’t lose yourself, I know how that feels. Still can’t talk to her about some things, but I’m getting stronger. I know where you are emotionally and how you feel. I’ll be thinking about you daily. You can do it. I know bc I’m doing it now not easy but it’s better than it was. Stay strong.


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## LilMissSunshine

AGREED, Cooper. The brain accepts all of this, the rest of me is just not quite caught up. Hearing everyone's comments and thoughts here helps TREMENDOUSLY. I feel myself getting stronger. I like that last line, too - Divorce is a big deal, but sometimes it's the best deal." What a great way to look at it.



Cooper said:


> Human endurance is incredible, your relationship has evolved to where you are stressed and miserable everyday yet you just keep enduring. Do you think there's a trophy at the end? There's not trust me, I would have won it. lol. The trophy is deciding to stop living life in misery, start focusing that energy on making yourself happy. We all waffle at times, emotions can blind us to logical solutions, divorce is a big deal, but sometimes it's the best deal.


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## Vinnydee

I made the decision to retire, but then changed my mind, and changed it again, then again and again. I think that with life altering decisions we want to be sure that we are making the right choices. I cheated on my wife in our second year of marriage. It was a one night drunken stand with a gorgeous model. I told my wife and all she said was not to do it again. I owned up to it since I had no other reason than my inhibitions were reduced and she was a gorgeous model and did not want to pass up the opportunity. Hey, I owned up to it and took full responsibility for my actions. My wife saw how bad I felt and just said not to do it again. We are married 46 years because my wife made the right decision.

From what I have read, your chances of making it work are based on whether or not the cheater takes full responsibility for the cheating. No blaming it on someone else. If they deflect the blame to their spouse, their chances of saving the marriage is low according to the marriage counselors taking part in the study. It makes sense since cheating is never the answer to a problem. The first choice is always to talk to your spouse if you are unhappy with something they are or are not doing. My wife and I learned this after my cheating and our marriage was great for it. However my cheating was solely on me. I should not have drank so much and refused the invitation to spend the night. 

Do what you have to do but do not use marriage counseling as a way to postpone the inevitable. Often we grasp at straws to forestall a major change in our lives. The fact that he will not go with you gives you the right path to take.


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## Uselessmale

I was told early on, by my IC, that abuse is abuse. I to couldn’t reconcile that the verbal wasn’t the the same as physical abuse. Bc I knew if I had been hit I would have been gone( that almost happened many times). Books re:verbal and emotional abuse, and the Bible, all affirm that in the long run physical abuse, while horrible and rephensible, in not as damaging as verbal abuse. Any abuse is wrong! It took me awhile to understand that as a man I could be abused and bullied by a woman. It happens. It also took me awhile to realize that the verbal and emotional abuse I was receiving was just as bad as physical abuse. Many times I thought how nice it would be not to wake up ever again obviously haven’t done that. Getting out of that situation has done a lot for my esteem. Still have a lot of things to deal with but I’m doing it.


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## WorkingWife

BluesPower said:


> The longer you wait the longer it takes to get though it and start a new life...


To the OP - Yes, it's NORMAL. But this, what blues power said. You can see where this is going and it doesn't sound like he's doing anything to reverse it. What good does an old picture do for your quality of life today? You can always have that memory. But if you aren't making any new ones you have to decide what you want the rest of your life to look like and if it is to leave, the sooner you do it, the sooner you can start creating the life you do want. And start taking new pictures.


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## cma62

There is something that just makes it hard to leave

Believe me...I fully understand how hard it is to leave ....
Keeping the status quo is familiar and easy....but deep down we are feeling less than, feeling that something is off, not wanting our lives to be controlled by someone else.

Most women I have talked to or read about that left a multiple year or decade marriage had no regrets....or just one, that they hadn’t done it sooner.

Staying and dealing with the cognitive dissonance just makes it that much harder to leave....it’s mind fu....y


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## LilMissSunshine

You are right, WorkingWife - I have got to stop getting caught up in the past. Also, the more I have read, listened to what others have shared (including those on this board), and researched myself, I am experiencing emotional abuse in this situation. I have been listening to some great audio books and never in a million years would I though that *I* would be in an abusive situation. I always thought of abuse as physical - but it isn't always. I have also learned that it takes the abused an average of 7 times of trying before they ever leave the abuser. I can see so much of my situation in the examples these books give. And explains part of why I am struggling with all of this. But yes, the sooner the better would be the best thing to do - knowing and doing it are two different things. I am trying (.



WorkingWife said:


> To the OP - Yes, it's NORMAL. But this, what blues power said. You can see where this is going and it doesn't sound like he's doing anything to reverse it. What good does an old picture do for your quality of life today? You can always have that memory. But if you aren't making any new ones you have to decide what you want the rest of your life to look like and if it is to leave, the sooner you do it, the sooner you can start creating the life you do want. And start taking new pictures.


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## LilMissSunshine

Uselessmale, I couldn't reconcile it with my mind ether (verbal and emotional abuse IS abuse). I read the same thing, and that verbal and emotional abuse oftentimes has worse repercussions because it is more ongoing and present, vs. physical that can be very specific and sporadic incidents. The "constant-ness" of the emotional abuse creates more damage. As I mentioned to WOrkingWife, some of the great books I have been reading have enlightened me on so much. I read where it takes the abused an average of 7 times of trying to finally leave the abuser. I am sure that's part of my struggle (they explain it as trauma-bonding). BTW, I know two guys who have very abusive wives. I know close friends of both who "know" what is going on - to most of the outside world, nobody would ever know. It happens with both genders. And of course as an outsider, in the past, I would say "why does he keep staying in that situation?" Now having been on the other side, I know it isn't always that easy.



Uselessmale said:


> I was told early on, by my IC, that abuse is abuse. I to couldn’t reconcile that the verbal wasn’t the the same as physical abuse. Bc I knew if I had been hit I would have been gone( that almost happened many times). Books re:verbal and emotional abuse, and the Bible, all affirm that in the long run physical abuse, while horrible and rephensible, in not as damaging as verbal abuse. Any abuse is wrong! It took me awhile to understand that as a man I could be abused and bullied by a woman. It happens. It also took me awhile to realize that the verbal and emotional abuse I was receiving was just as bad as physical abuse. Many times I thought how nice it would be not to wake up ever again obviously haven’t done that. Getting out of that situation has done a lot for my esteem. Still have a lot of things to deal with but I’m doing it.


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## LilMissSunshine

CMA62, I am reading a great audio book this week..............it explains the being hard to leave part sometimes as "trauma bond" when in an abusive situation, which is what this is. And believe me, it has taken me a LOT to be willing to admit this is abusive, as there has never been any physical violence. Never in a million years would I think *I* would find myself in an abusive situation. I now believe it is trauma bond combined with living in the past (old pictures, cards, etc.) that keeps me in it.



cma62 said:


> There is something that just makes it hard to leave
> 
> Believe me...I fully understand how hard it is to leave ....
> Keeping the status quo is familiar and easy....but deep down we are feeling less than, feeling that something is off, not wanting our lives to be controlled by someone else.
> 
> Most women I have talked to or read about that left a multiple year or decade marriage had no regrets....or just one, that they hadn’t done it sooner.
> 
> Staying and dealing with the cognitive dissonance just makes it that much harder to leave....it’s mind fu....y


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## LilMissSunshine

No cheating in this situation, but what you have shared is true in other situations, too. And YES, not being willing to go to MC does say a lot. That should have told me right there without anything else being said. <<<<<<<<<Sigh>>>>>>>>>>>. I know all of these things, just struggle to do anything with it.




Vinnydee said:


> I made the decision to retire, but then changed my mind, and changed it again, then again and again. I think that with life altering decisions we want to be sure that we are making the right choices. I cheated on my wife in our second year of marriage. It was a one night drunken stand with a gorgeous model. I told my wife and all she said was not to do it again. I owned up to it since I had no other reason than my inhibitions were reduced and she was a gorgeous model and did not want to pass up the opportunity. Hey, I owned up to it and took full responsibility for my actions. My wife saw how bad I felt and just said not to do it again. We are married 46 years because my wife made the right decision.
> 
> From what I have read, your chances of making it work are based on whether or not the cheater takes full responsibility for the cheating. No blaming it on someone else. If they deflect the blame to their spouse, their chances of saving the marriage is low according to the marriage counselors taking part in the study. It makes sense since cheating is never the answer to a problem. The first choice is always to talk to your spouse if you are unhappy with something they are or are not doing. My wife and I learned this after my cheating and our marriage was great for it. However my cheating was solely on me. I should not have drank so much and refused the invitation to spend the night.
> 
> Do what you have to do but do not use marriage counseling as a way to postpone the inevitable. Often we grasp at straws to forestall a major change in our lives. The fact that he will not go with you gives you the right path to take.


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## cma62

Trauma bonding is a very real thing. The longer you have been in an abusive situation, the worse it is.
The sentimentalities of memory’s, pictures, vacations ....especially if they were good times are what have kept us around.
These good times keep us stuck, even though the bad times are despicable.

Face it ,if there were only bad times we would have made the move to leave a long time ago, but it’s the good times that suck us back in.

I’ve done enough waffling just like you in the last 12 years...but the more we are subjected to their toxic behaviour the further it pushes us away.
I am actually so much closer to throwing in the towel than I have ever been.... but I had to do it my way and in my time, and I am.

Brainwashing and the co-dependency will take a long time to recover from.
The light bulb went off for me many years ago, but just recently it has been shining brighter and I see there is not going to be something that is going to change my situation.
I’m the only one that can make that change....and I’m 3/4 there.
I hope you have the courage to do the same.


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## turnera

I forget - are you in IC?


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## LilMissSunshine

YES, CMA62 - it's the memories that keep me around, and few breadcrumbs he throws out doing nice things in between all of the blow-ups. I am getting very close, too............have been battling it since 2012. Now that I have one kid out of the house and the other an older teen, I'm beginning to see maybe it is a better time to go. This month it's been one year since he's kissed me or initiated any affection. I need to make another post about that - it's almost a ludicrous situation. Just more ammunition and I know what people will say, but I almost just want to vent.

I can't imagine you've been waffling 12 years..........that's twice as long as me. And I can barely handle it anymore. Bless you.



cma62 said:


> Trauma bonding is a very real thing. The longer you have been in an abusive situation, the worse it is.
> The sentimentalities of memory’s, pictures, vacations ....especially if they were good times are what have kept us around.
> These good times keep us stuck, even though the bad times are despicable.
> 
> Face it ,if there were only bad times we would have made the move to leave a long time ago, but it’s the good times that suck us back in.
> 
> I’ve done enough waffling just like you in the last 12 years...but the more we are subjected to their toxic behaviour the further it pushes us away.
> I am actually so much closer to throwing in the towel than I have ever been.... but I had to do it my way and in my time, and I am.
> 
> Brainwashing and the co-dependency will take a long time to recover from.
> The light bulb went off for me many years ago, but just recently it has been shining brighter and I see there is not going to be something that is going to change my situation.
> I’m the only one that can make that change....and I’m 3/4 there.
> I hope you have the courage to do the same.


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## LilMissSunshine

TTurnera, yes I have been going to the same counselor since 2012. I'll go for several months, feel better about trying to distance myself and stick it out, then relapse if there is a big blow-up. I cannot tell her anything new and she cannot tel lme anything new. My choices are: a. stick it out and find a way to find other things to distract me, b. leave I feel like I've beaten a dead horse going back.


turnera said:


> I forget - are you in IC?


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## turnera

Maybe it's time to find a new counselor.


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## cma62

@LilMissSunshine
I found a huge difference in support when I found a counsellor that deals with abusive situations and understands narcissistic tendencies.
These men are much more complex and the counsellor needs to understand and suggest ways to deal with the situation that keeps you safe or help you plan your exit.
It was frustrating seeing a counsellor that was not experienced dealing with a man with Narcissistic and abusive tendencies, their suggestions on how to work on what was happening were fruitless.

A lot of local women’s shelters offer counseling, and are well trained to deal with these highly toxic situations.
Most of it is working on you and your reactions to situations....eg... diffusing an intolerable occurrence rather than escalate it.

Men with Narcissistic tendencies never think they have done wrong. They’ll justify themselves till they’re blue in the face.
I wrote a list of the pros and cons of leaving...it’s actually a no brainer when you look at the logistical side of things rather than the emotional.
Whatever you do...don’t let him get wind of your plans to leave till you have all your ducks in a row.


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## Uselessmale

@lilmssunshine, How are you doing?


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## She'sStillGotIt

Sadly, the OP has another thread here on TAM discussing a one-year deadline she'd set for herself a year ago - to leave this abusive ass-hole if he didn't make an attempt to help fix the marriage (which he's shown ZERO desire to do) and now that the year is up and he's done *SQUAT*, she's trying to find excuses to not have to stand behind the deadline she set for herself. :frown2:

Nothing changes if nothing changes, OP. But I kinda think that's *exactly* where your comfort zone is.


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## Uselessmale

Where is she on the site. I’d like to read her posts.


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## cma62

@Uselessmale......you can see previous posts by a certain member by clicking on their user profile name


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