# Stars Wars spoilers thread...and perhaps blasphemy!



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Edit title: Star Wars*

I have seen a few threads but I didn't know if anyone was giving spoilers and I didn't want to come in and say something if they weren't. I recently binged watched the prequels before going to see the Force Awakens. I may get attacked for this, but honestly I think Revenge of the Sith is the best of the contemporary movies. 



*Spoilers*****




I can go into more details but I literally watched these movies hours apart. I watched Obi Wan and Anikan have this epic 10-minute sword battle with a great musical score and emotional gut wrenching ending..
Then I watched some Darth Vader wannabe(simply for fan service) who appears to be an ultra badass who then can't beat two people that have never touched a light saber:slap:.

The movie wasn't bad I thought. And it had a lot of funny scenes. But it felt like I was watching a side story with cameos to make people happy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I thought it sucked. No plot. As stated, the wannabe was a joke.
Why do we have to have to ruin the series with xx chromosomes and pretentious social engineering crap?

The force is apparently not so hard to learn about since it.... Aw heck, it just stunk up the works. I don't even look forward to the next one.

My fav new one was attack of the clones. Neat scenery, good swordplay, good acting, cool monsters. The plot was beyond awful, and the Ford / fisher cameos were ridiculous. Chewbacca was still good, lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> Edit title: Star Wars*
> 
> I have seen a few threads but I didn't know if anyone was giving spoilers and I didn't want to come in and say something if they weren't. I recently binged watched the prequels before going to see the Force Awakens. I may get attacked for this, but honestly I think Revenge of the Sith is the best of the contemporary movies.
> 
> ...


To be fair, Ren had already been pretty grievously wounded (Remember Chewbacca shooting him w/ his bowcaster? You know... the weapon that was pretty much EXPLODING sh*t the entire freaking movie?), so he wasn't on top of his game. Once he got his head together, though, he pretty much made Finn his b*tch.

I think the idea w/ Rey, though, is that she's so powerful and has such huge potential w/ respect to wielding the Force that Ren's skill and training -- though impressive -- wasn't able to overcome it. And don't forget that she was pretty handy w/ that staff, so she was by no means unfamiliar w/ melee combat.

And if you didn't get goosebumps when Rey Force-grabbed the lightsaber out of the snow (Luke in the wampa cave... HELLOOOOO!!!), then you might as well have been watching some other movie.

Oh, and by the way...

RotS -- just like TPM and AotC -- was complete and total sh*t.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I think episode one was the worst movie. I understand why everyone hates the prequels. There was the terrible acting, the dialogue, Jar Jar Binks..and a lot of the CG doesn't stand up well with the test of time. But I just thought episode 3 was epic. And after watching that and the Force Awakens in the same day...it's just not even close for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> To be fair, Ren had already been pretty grievously wounded (Remember Chewbacca shooting him w/ his bowcaster? You know... the weapon that was pretty much EXPLODING sh*t the entire freaking movie?), so he wasn't on top of his game. Once he got his head together, though, he pretty much made Finn his b*tch.
> 
> I think the idea w/ Rey, though, is that she's so powerful and has such huge potential w/ respect to wielding the Force that Ren's skill and training -- though impressive -- wasn't able to overcome it. And don't forget that she was pretty handy w/ that staff, so she was by no means unfamiliar w/ melee combat.


Screw you Gus! You and your reasonable and rational retorts!



> And if you didn't get goosebumps when Rey Force-grabbed the lightsaber out of the snow (Luke in the wampa cave... HELLOOOOO!!!), then you might as well have been watching some other movie.


That was a great scene. I did enjoy the movie but I thought ROTS was the better movie. 


> Oh, and by the way...
> 
> *RotS* -- just like TPM and AotC -- was complete and total sh*t.


What didn't you like about it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> Screw you Gus! You and your reasonable and rational retorts!
> 
> That was a great scene. I did enjoy the movie but I thought ROTS was the better movie.
> 
> What didn't you like about it?


The part the opening crawl and the end credits was just awful.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Movies today are more CGI and bad acting with lame plots than movies from the pre computer era.

So movies from 70's, 80's were amazing. The 90's it started to go downhill but were still good.

2000+ most movies are too much obvious CGI, bad acting and poor plots and story lines.

Back pre computer era, you needed fantastic actors and actresses and story lines and plots.


StarWars The Force Awakens was better than Episode I, II and III.

But still not as good as the original Episodes IV, V, VI.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I have a question, I am not a huge fan, just a casual one if that.

That series is weird where one would think the stronger one is in the force, they should win since it guides their actions. Perhaps I do not understand the mechanics of the force.

In ROTS, shouldn't Vader kicked Obiwan's ass.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I have a question, I am not a huge fan, just a casual one if that.
> 
> That series is weird where one would think the stronger one is in the force, they should win since it guides their actions. Perhaps I do not understand the mechanics of the force.
> 
> In ROTS, shouldn't Vader kicked Obiwan's ass.


Don't be so quick to discount either arrogance or recklessness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> StarWars The Force Awakens was better than Episode I, II and III.


You reckon? I reckon SW7 is the weakest of all, the plot is just so weak IMO.

As others already mentioned, Kylo Ren is a bloody joke, and he didn't look evil at all, more like a wannabe, acts like a wannabe, fights like a wannabe getting his butt handed to him by a scavenger and a former stormtrooper.

The Force in Lucas directed films needed training to master, and now Disney has made the Force "unlockable" and without training you can defeat a Sith Lord (who was even trained by bloody Skywalker, not to mention he has the blood of Skywalker!)

:slap:

Don't get me started on the new "Death Star" either, destroys five planets and kills billions of people and... next scene. Then hell, a handful of starfighters, a rag-tag commando team with only Han and Chewie as experienced members, and walla, planet boom. 
Come on... 

*sigh*

Oh well, at least my daughter enjoyed it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell now that I started... someone stop me 

- I didn't like how Finn went completely out of character of a Stormtrooper as soon as he removed his helmet. He doesn't act like he even finished boot camp! Where's that Imperial training? Yeah ok, you got named as a number, but you sure don't act like someone who was! 

- Rey got too powerful too quickly, and made Kylo Ren so laughable! It's too much to even believe especially with the highly established Star Wars lore, this is kinda like the "Cure death" plothole in Star Trek: Into Darkness.

- That female stormtrooper officer that they somehow captured simply lowering the shields with no questions asked, it's like she's intentional already defecting! WTF?! Also if she had the authority to bypass all security protocol and lower the shields of a VERY vital military station that spans an entire freakin planet, how did she get this position without the utmost loyalty TO THE DEATH?

- Han Solo's death so underplayed when it's supposed to be the biggest moment of the film WTF?! This is HAN SOLO!!!

Also, the security of Imperial ships/bases are so appalling it's laughable! Do you guys remember the sabotage mission in epi 6? 
What was it famous for? 










But nooo, the Sith have failed to forsee this, and 3 people can just waltz in undetected and blow a hole in place. And the final space battle OMG, a HANDFUL of starfighters breaks through a fleet and takes out a planet.



IMO they need Lucas back, I'll take bad dialogue over massive blows to established lore that I've followed since I was a kid! I'm old I know but bah! Quite honestly, as a Star Wars fan, I'm very saddened, but meh. At least my daughter has another female heroine to follow after yes?

... a heroine with no character development, no challenges, she just pushes over everything because she has the power of the force which unlike all Jedi in existence she requires no training to use a mind trick, no training to use a lightsaber, defeats a Sith lord like WTF?! This is NOT the message I want my daughter to aspire to, in life, you have to WORK for your success, patience and diligence, no *fking shortcuts*! I thought the feminists had a hand in this film too? Shouldn't they be working to put more BELIEVABLE and RELATABLE women in films?! Why are they praising this? Then again, perhaps my views of a strong female role model differs from theirs.

How can any Star Wars fan enjoy this film? Like ok, if it was just an animated expanded universe series ok, but this is STAR WARS EPISODE SEVEN!!! It's just too much for me, I just hope the next films don't end up butchering a beloved franchise.

Anyways... I'll shut up now, must keep it in.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I have a question, I am not a huge fan, just a casual one if that.
> 
> That series is weird where one would think the stronger one is in the force, they should win since it guides their actions. Perhaps I do not understand the mechanics of the force.
> 
> In ROTS, shouldn't Vader kicked Obiwan's ass.


What Gus said about recklessness, etc. as well as there still being some good in Anakin/Vader.

There was none left in the Emperor, which, IMO, allowed him to concentrate on the dark side and its power and basically beat somebody like Yoda rather handily with little thought.

As Anakin said to Obi Wan in Ep3, he didn't want to do this.

I found the same with Kylo Ren - he was still conflicted and felt the pull to the light side, which makes him weaker than he could be. He said as much when talking to Vaders helmet. And it was evident when confronting Han, as he tried to explain his actions prior to (SPOILER ALERT!) murdering his own father. Somebody like the Emperor, or Vader (after the suit) would not hesitate or bother to talk things over.

However, in all 3 trilogies, this is the villain's downfall - hesitation and second thought, due to there still being some good in them. Vader with Luke. Anakin with Obi Wan. Kylo with Han.

Mind you, Obi Wan did not want to fight/kill Anakin, either, but he also had 30 odd years more training than Anakin did at that point. Given that Anakin had ~10 years of Jedi training, not to mention starting late, he was able to go toe-to-toe with arguably one of the greatest Jedi in the galaxy in Obi Wan. He really only lost that fight because he gave up the high ground, something that Obi Wan even warned him about, yet his arrogance didn't allow him to admit defeat and Obi Wan finished him easily.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm a life-long fan, but I wouldn't say I'm an apologetic fanboy, either. I have problems with all three trilogies, but I have some thoughts on your points:



RandomDude said:


> Hell now that I started... someone stop me
> 
> - I didn't like how Finn went completely out of character of a Stormtrooper as soon as he removed his helmet. He doesn't act like he even finished boot camp! Where's that Imperial training? Yeah ok, you got named as a number, but you sure don't act like someone who was!
> 
> ...


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

alexm said:


> I'm a life-long fan, but I wouldn't say I'm an apologetic fanboy, either. I have problems with all three trilogies, but I have some thoughts on your points:



So, is the dark side stronger than the light? Is there a neutral side? Why didn't Leia train in the force, she had as much potential as her brother and would have helped her cause?

I tried watching the old movies and retaining it, but not much of a fan. Star Wars was before I was even born.

I was a child when TPM came out around 2000.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Mr.Fisty said:


> So, is the dark side stronger than the light? Is there a neutral side? Why didn't Leia train in the force, she had as much potential as her brother and would have helped her cause?


Sort of. To me, the Force is the Force is the Force. That's how I understand it. There really is no good Force or bad Force - it's all in the user.

"Good" Jedi don't use the full extent of it. It's more or less explained in a very round about way that it can be abused, for lack of a better term. Theoretically, the Force enables its user to do virtually anything. It's the user that is Dark or Light.

On that note (and I wasn't sure I could make this post any more nerdy, but here goes!) it was somewhat hinted at that there's a slight middle ground in the prequel trilogies. Mace Windu is a bit of a hybrid Force user and is sort of balancing the two sides. He's more aggressive in his fighting style, and in general. His purple lightsabre kind of mimics this, as it's generally well-known that blue and green sabres are "good" and red is "evil". He was also able to deflect the Emperor's Force lightning back at him, maiming him in the process. Whereas when Yoda faced forced lightning, he blocked it.

We'll likely find out in the next movie(s) why Leia didn't train in the Force. We may not, either, and it'll be left up to the viewer. I assume she had already had an established role in life, and thought it better to continue that role (diplomat, General, leader, etc.)

She is Force sensitive though. That was shown in the new movie when she seemingly knows (SPOILER ALERT!!!) somebody dies.

Perhaps we'll find out she learned a few tricks of the trade from Luke in the next movie, though I doubt it would be anything as obvious as lightsabre skills or Force choking. Possibly something like a very subtle mind trick.

Honest to Christ, I've never posted something this nerdy before in my life. I tend to keep these things in my own head!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alexm thanks for trying to sooth my fears that Star Wars is going to get ruined. If Rey is Skywalker's daughter then ok, that would make a tad bit more sense, aside from the fact that she could just use jedi mind tricks, force pulling a lightsaber out of ice that Luke didn't do until epi 5, all without training while all Skywalkers had to go through training for it - not to mention without even basic training (remember the tazer bots from previous SW films?) with a lightsaber she ended up tearing Ren a new one.

She's so powerful she doesn't need training! Where does she get it from? Surely it's not from the Skywalker side of the family!

Now ok, at least Ren got blastered by Chewie to make it almost swallowable, but another thing - Han picks up Chewie's bowcaster as if he's never seen one before?! WTF?!

:slap:

I'm hoping that it is what you say, that epi 8 and 9 will help this make sense. But that may be just the first stage of grief...


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

What if Rey is Luke's daughter AND Obiwan's granddaughter? (He may not have been celibate his whole life, and may have fathered the daughter with whom Luke ended up fathering Rey.)

That explains the untrained power more thoroughly, but I can still buy it with her just being Luke's daughter alone.

And I'm with Gus, as usual. Vader didn't destroy Kenobi in ROTS because he was reckless and arrogant.

That's been a theme all along in this series (and many others - think of Thor and his failings in the first of that series). Both the dark and the light side have equal power on paper, but it's the user of that power and how pure of heart they are that determines who wins. Ultimately, the Dark Side will always fail. Just as we like to hope that in real life, good ultimately defeats evil.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> ... a heroine with no character development, no challenges, she just pushes over everything because she has the power of the force which unlike all Jedi in existence she requires no training to use a mind trick, no training to use a lightsaber, defeats a Sith lord like WTF?! This is NOT the message I want my daughter to aspire to, in life, you have to WORK for your success, patience and diligence, no *fking shortcuts*! I thought the feminists had a hand in this film too? Shouldn't they be working to put more BELIEVABLE and RELATABLE women in films?! Why are they praising this? Then again, perhaps my views of a strong female role model differs from theirs.
> 
> How can any Star Wars fan enjoy this film? Like ok, if it was just an animated expanded universe series ok, but this is STAR WARS EPISODE SEVEN!!! It's just too much for me, I just hope the next films don't end up butchering a beloved franchise.
> 
> Anyways... I'll shut up now, must keep it in.


Hmmmm feminist? 

It's fantasy. The plot elements were not political statements about women. The characters live in a fantasy movie universe full of surprising and innovative twist. 

There is too much riding on this franchise to risk waking up too many hatters.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ROLE MODELS Catherine!

Hell even Elsa from Frozen that my daughter is obsessed with had more character development in her story then "zomg I am force-sensitive? really? ok! *jedi mind tricks* *force pulls lightsaber* *defeats sith*" - these are skills that took other characters YEARS of training to learn. Sure Elsa didn't have training (sure she could shoot ice everywhere and build ice castles but she injured her sister, and her abilities DEVELOPED to be controlled safely in the end), but what do we see instead? 

Also the message! Power comes with responsibility and if uncontrolled it has the potential to harm. Excellent message from Frozen that I hope will resonate throughout my daughter's development. What is the message to our daughters with Rey? You tell me!

Sure it's fantasy but there is LORE, rules that are present in entertainment mediums just like gravity is a rule here on earth - and if you defy it, you'd better have a good reason for how! E.G. a plane!
What reason is there for Rey's power either than what is speculated (and I SURE HOPE that the speculation is the case!)?

Cause right now this is just as lore-unfriendly as the USS enterprise warping in outta nowhere to destroy the death star.
Wait... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> ROLE MODELS Catherine!
> 
> Hell even Elsa from Frozen that my daughter is obsessed with had more character development in her story then "zomg I am force-sensitive? really? ok! *jedi mind tricks* *force pulls lightsaber* *defeats sith*" - these are skills that took other characters YEARS of training to learn. Sure Elsa didn't have training (sure she could shoot ice everywhere and build ice castles but she injured her sister, and her abilities DEVELOPED to be controlled safely in the end), but what do we see instead?
> 
> ...



Deus ex machina, the director J.J. is known for them.

And that is why after reading the first Zombie fallout book, I quit reading it. A lot of that going on in today's literature and in a lot of plots.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

RandomDude said:


> not to mention without even basic training (remember the tazer bots from previous SW films?) with a lightsaber she ended up tearing Ren a new one.
> 
> She's so powerful she doesn't need training! Where does she get it from? Surely it's not from the Skywalker side of the family!
> 
> ...


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Hmmmm feminist?
> 
> It's fantasy. The plot elements were not political statements about women. The characters live in a fantasy movie universe full of surprising and innovative twist.
> 
> There is too much riding on this franchise to risk waking up too many hatters.


I think Star Wars does have political statements. At least the original story did I felt. I don't think this added anything new accept a female lead who kicked a Darth Vader wannabe ass. This dude stopped a laser blast in mid air and someone completely untrained in the force owned him hard. It was a slap in the face to what it means to use the force! I don't have a problem with strong female leads. But that is what bothers me. 

But to your point Catherine, I agree. I think this movie was trying to make everyone happy. I personally don't think it was ambitious enough and crippled itself in the climax.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ugh. I'm trying to stay away from this thread...



Mr.Fisty said:


> So, is the dark side stronger than the light?


It's not that simple.



Mr.Fisty said:


> Is there a neutral side?


Not really. At least not insofar as much of the lore goes.

The Jedi are taught restraint at every turn. With every swing of the lightsaber, w/ every Force push, w/ every burst of speed, jump, etc... they hold back. The Sith don't. The Sith embrace their inner passions and harness them to provide a very determined, visceral focus.

The closest thing to a neutral Force user (at least in terms of what we've seen thus far, even in the Expanded Universe) would be a Jedi or light side Force practitioner that chose to incorporate some of the more aggressive tendencies of the dark side in order to incorporate additional focus and ferocity to both offensive and defensive capabilities.

...aka Mace Windu.

Palpatine was an EXTREMELY skilled Force user, and Mace Windu beat him _handily_. In fact, he'd have likely schooled Anakin in a very similar manner had it not been for his emo-treachery.

Qui-Gon Jinn also advocated for a more balanced and neutral view of using the Force, though he was clearly a bit too restrained, hence his death at the hands of Darth Maul.

IOW, most Jedi are simply afraid of their own power, so they dial it back in order to refrain from falling prey to the temptations of the dark side.



Mr.Fisty said:


> Why didn't Leia train in the force, she had as much potential as her brother and would have helped her cause?


Hasn't been answered yet, at least not in the canon. Depending on who was writing whatever in the Expanded Universe, though, she either did or didn't, and for different reasons.

And being twins -- fraternal twins, at that -- doesn't necessarily mean that she's as Force-capable (or even Force-sensitive) as Luke.



Mr.Fisty said:


> I tried watching the old movies and retaining it, but not much of a fan. Star Wars was before I was even born.
> 
> I was a child when TPM came out around 2000.


Poor kid.

*cough* 1999!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FalconKing said:


> I think Star Wars does have political statements. At least the original story did I felt. I don't think this added anything new accept *a female lead who kicked a Darth Vader wannabe ass. This dude stopped a laser blast in mid air and someone completely untrained in the force owned him hard. It was a slap in the face to what it means to use the force! I don't have a problem with strong female leads. But that is what bothers me.*
> 
> But to your point Catherine, I agree. I think this movie was trying to make everyone happy. I personally don't think it was ambitious enough and crippled itself in the climax.


Consider a world class athlete like Michael Jordan. He LOVES baseball, and tried like Hell to make in in the MLB, but it's pretty clear that his time was better spent in the NBA.

Similarly, each Force user will be more talented in one aspect of using the Force vs others. Still, each of those who receive training will typically be trained in using each of these abilities.

Some are skilled healers.

Some are skilled at the more martial aspects of using the Force, i.e. melee and hand-to-hand combat, whether involving lightsabers or not.

Others are more skilled at some of the other abilities, i.e. psychokinesis, telekinesis, telepathy, energy projection, etc.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I was at a midnite showing for TPM back in 1999, and I remember getting all of about 2 minutes into it before I was extremely disappointed. Still, I tried to stay optimistic, as I knew that we had at least two more movies ahead of us that would help in terms of rounding a few things out, answering questions, and (hopefully) redeeming things that just didn't make ANY. FREAKING. SENSE. AT. ALL. Unfortunately, things just got worse w/ both AotC and RotS.

(Rant: George Lucas is a great storyteller, but he just doesn't have the chops for subtle nuances like scene transitions or even dialogue that makes sense. Each and every scene w/ Anakin and Padme (in AotC and RotS, anyway) seemed forced, wooden, and rushed. Zero chemistry at all. Maybe it was bad casting. Maybe it was bad directing. Maybe it was bad writing. Whatever it was, it was Lucas.)

Still, I'd ask everyone to remember that TFA is but the first movie in a trilogy, and we've got quite a bit ahead of us still. Questions will be answered. As Obi-Wan would say, "Patience!"

Regarding Rey...

Keep in mind that we don't know much about her yet. Honestly, I think it would be a bit stupid if she turned out to be Luke's daughter, but it's pretty clear that she has some sort of connection to Luke.

I don't give a crap about any of the politics, accusations of overt feminism, or any of that jazz. Personally I think it's refreshing to see a strong female lead that doesn't wind up being relegated to little more than some dude's romantic interest. If I had a daughter, I'd want her to see TFA, along w/ Mulan, Frozen, and any other movie that seeks to extol and impart the virtues of self-reliance.

People should be much more miffed about how overhyped the Captain Phasma character was, only to get _maybe_ a dozen lines spread out across a relative handful of scenes, only to (probably, anyway) wind up in a trash compactor. Still, she's supposed to be back for Episode VIII, so I guess she made it out.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GusPolinski said:


> ...aka Mace Windu.
> 
> Palpatine was an EXTREMELY skilled Force user, and Mace Windu beat him _handily_. In fact, he'd have likely schooled Anakin in a very similar manner had it not been for his emo-treachery.


I've always been under the impression that Palpatine allowed Mace Windu to have the upper hand during that fight, if only to allow Anakin to eventually kill him, thus turning him to the dark side. Palpatine's powers allowed him to "see the future", and he was also extremely cunning and manipulative. He had to make Anakin think he required his help.

Remember, Palpatine made Anakin believe that he, and only he, had the power to bring people back to life. As Anakin had been having premonitions of Padme's death, Palpatine would have been of great use to him. So Anakin essentially chose Mace Windu's death over Padme's, but was very conflicted while doing so. 2 minutes later, he was christened Darth Vader, as Palpatine's plan worked as he foresaw.

My opinion is that Palpatine was the single most powerful Force user, good or evil, the galaxy had ever seen and would have handled Mace Windu as easily as he did Yoda. It was all for show.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LOL. No.

Palpatine got his ass handed to him, plain and simple.

After all...

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/sc...ims-bad-motherfcker-star-wars-lightsaber.html


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

FalconKing said:


> Then I watched some Darth Vader wannabe(simply for fan service) who appears to be an ultra badass who then can't beat two people that have never touched a light saber:slap:.


He beat Finn in short order, despite being seriously wounded.

Rey obviously had skills with bladed/blunt weapons, as she demonstrated with her staff when they tried to steal BB-8. So considering that Ren had been shot center of mass with Chewie's crossbow, which was apparently a blaster on steroids by Han's comments, I think Ren did admirably. Why don't you try taking a .30 cal round to the chest and fighting someone with a sword.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

He wasn't hit in the chest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

One thing I don't understand is how Lucas went from decent dialogue in the original trilogy to the horrible dialogue in the prequel trilogy :scratchhead:

As for Ren, he was shot in the leg sure, but you reckon that would stop a SITH? This Ren apparently slaughtered all the Jedi in Luke's Academy, with training from Luke and being from the Skywalker family is strong with the force just like Rey is. Finn should not even had been able to land a hit in. Rey however, tore him a new one. Jedi Padawans are knighted after defeating a sith, like Obi-Wan. Rey already defeated one, without training too! Guess she should be knighted without being a padawan! I can't accept that, unless it is revealed that she got a mind wipe like Revan in SW:KOTOR

Rey was proficient in her staff but not a master, her enemies grabbed her a few times and it was obvious she had alot to learn, not to mention even if they made her more powerful in that scene it would make more sense if she had a double-bladed lightsaber that uses the same techniques as a staff weapon, but a single-bladed lightsaber uses the techniques of a sword, completely different weapon styles, so to still see Rey defeating a dark Jedi with a lightsaber that she has zero training in? No...

As for Palpatine I also got the impression he wanted Anakin to be forced to make a choice as well, hence feigning defeat with Windu.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

FalconKing said:


> He wasn't hit in the chest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He was hit in the lower chest/ribs/lateral abdomen, as can be seen because he reaches towards it and covers it with his hand after being shot. But regardless of exactly where he was hit, you aren't exactly in sword fighting shape when you have a whole blown through you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> One thing I don't understand is how Lucas went from decent dialogue in the original trilogy to the horrible dialogue in the prequel trilogy :scratchhead:


He didn't direct either ESB or RotJ.



RandomDude said:


> As for Ren, he was shot in the leg sure, but you reckon that would stop a SITH? This Ren apparently slaughtered all the Jedi in Luke's Academy, with training from Luke and being from the Skywalker family is strong with the force just like Rey is. Finn should not even had been able to land a hit in. Rey however, tore him a new one. Jedi Padawans are knighted after defeating a sith, like Obi-Wan. Rey already defeated one, without training too! Guess she should be knighted without being a padawan! I can't accept that, unless it is revealed that she got a mind wipe like Revan in SW:KOTOR
> 
> Rey was proficient in her staff but not a master, her enemies grabbed her a few times and it was obvious she had alot to learn, not to mention even if they made her more powerful in that scene it would make more sense if she had a double-bladed lightsaber that uses the same techniques as a staff weapon, but a single-bladed lightsaber uses the techniques of a sword, completely different weapon styles, so to still see Rey defeating a dark Jedi with a lightsaber that she has zero training in? No...
> 
> As for Palpatine I also got the impression he wanted Anakin to be forced to make a choice as well, hence feigning defeat with Windu.


It's like you're not even listening.

Either way, you're presuming a lot. There's much that we don't yet know at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

RandomDude said:


> As for Ren, he was shot in the leg sure, but you reckon that would stop a SITH? This Ren apparently slaughtered all the Jedi in Luke's Academy, with training from Luke and being from the Skywalker family is strong with the force just like Rey is. Finn should not even had been able to land a hit in. Rey however, tore him a new one. Jedi Padawans are knighted after defeating a sith, like Obi-Wan. Rey already defeated one, without training too! Guess she should be knighted without being a padawan! I can't accept that, unless it is revealed that she got a mind wipe like Revan in SW:KOTOR


He's not a Sith - at least I don't believe he is.

He's strong with the Force, we know that. He may have been trained at an early age by Luke, hence his basic skills. He may have even learned on his own, for all we know.

The Sith are essentially gone. The Rule of Two - one master, one apprentice. There can only be two. And the last two, Palpatine and Vader, were killed in RotJ.

Kylo is, I assume, a fanboy of Vader and the dark side, and seeks to revive the Sith. But not having anybody to properly teach him, he's not nearly as powerful as an actual Sith would be.

My guess is that he either learned on his own (ie. stole/found everything he could on the dark side and the Sith (he has Vader's helmet, for example, so where did he get that? He also seems to recognize Anakin's old lightsabre and wants it).

Or this Snoke guy is somebody who knows more about the dark side and is teaching him. It doesn't make any logical sense that Snoke is a Sith, either. Unless... he's Darth Plagueis! (but my guess is that he's simply an Emperor wannabe, with no Force sensitivity, and is only seeking to revive the Empire. Kylo Ren is his Darth Vader.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

He definitely is not Sith but could become one depending on who Snoke is. He is/was a Knight of Ren


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Don't know if you can consider wookiepedia canon, but here's the link to him:

Snoke - Wookieepedia - Wikia

Besides even if the wookiepedia article is bogus, already in the film Snoke asked Ren: "There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?"
I don't see how such a question would make sense unless Snoke is in tune with the force. I also reckon he's Darth Plagueis, he's gotta be, otherwise another plot hole - as alexm mentioned in the rule of two.



I think I'm going to try to pretend that SW7 is an alternate universe now, like Star Trek's reboot.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Hmmmm feminist?
> 
> It's fantasy. The plot elements were not political statements about women. The characters live in a fantasy movie universe full of surprising and innovative twist.
> 
> There is too much riding on this franchise to risk waking up too many hatters.


I totally disagree. They made the main "Jedi" a woman who appears to be at the start of a biracial relationship.

I see lots of hollywoodery at work.

I also totally disliked the sudden ability to use the force so easily with no training whatsoever. And the holographic monster character appeared to definitely be a sith.

Oh, one last thing-- stopping a laser burst with the force? That's totally unprecedented in all the other movies. 

Ok, my nerdiness has been revealed. I like my Star Wars movies to stick to the "rules" lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Why do we have to have to ruin the series with xx chromosomes and pretentious social engineering crap?


The main character (arguably) being female wasn't the issue, nor was the issue one of the other main characters being a black man. The issue was what was done with their character development (or lack therefore of).

But I don't think in 2015, it should be in and of itself a shame that a movie has someone besides a white male as the main character. Especially in a fictional universe filled humans from various planets and countless alien species. 



> They made the main "Jedi" a woman who appears to be at the start of a biracial relationship.


There was more of a bromance between Poe and Finn than chemistry between Finn and Rae, honestly.

And at least at this point, Kylo isn't a Sith, otherwise the Sith have evidently abandoned the "Darth" title.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

This is why I love and despise comic and sci fi nerds. We nitpick the crap out of things. We have no clue if the force is unlocked like a video game hack. We have no clue if Finn and Ren will enter a bi-racial relationship, but boy are people hot. Heck, I know an entire group that became happy because they saw a connection between Po and Finn. Heck, people are saying Ren was already partially trained, she'd have been the right age, Kylo flipped out killing everyone and he hid his daughter making her forget everything.

We all see what we want to see.

As to unprecedented, I disagree. I always felt Darth Stopped the laser bolts from Han, the 70s technology just wasn't up to snuff to make it look as cool as it did in TFA. I mean this entire movie is lifted from all 4,5,6.

Oh and I feel Finn is going to end up being force sensitive or a Jedi.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> He didn't direct either ESB or RotJ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh come on. We all have our rumors and speculations at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I can't believe there are people watching this and hoping that this black dude and white woman don't get together. Would it be ok if she was fvcking Chewbacca? Some people...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

FalconKing said:


> Oh come on. We all have our rumors and speculations at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See and this is why it is fun and terrible at the same time. Every Star Wars nerd faction wants to be correct. If your speculation is too far fetched, they act like you used Lucas's name in vain. 

It is soooooo much fun. 
I enjoyed the movie and had problems with it at the same time. Kylo bothered me because it is like they are keeping the tradition of Skwalkers being whiny punks, when they first start using the force. 

I joked Rey had to be a Skwalker because she whined and ran away when the Light Saber spoke to her.

BTW, did anyone read the JJ interview?

They used Alec Guinness's', Yoda's and Ewan's voices in that flashback scene.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> I can't believe there are people watching this and hoping that this black dude and white woman don't get together. Would it be ok if she was fvcking Chewbacca? Some people...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If that's for me, I didn't say I was hoping against it, more I didn't see that kind of chemistry between them up to this point. Will that change later, maybe. I could care less if they get together if it doesn't seem forced. That's more to do with the story and acting than anything. 

And the fact that interracial or even interspecies relationship is blasé in Doctor Who, but causes meltdowns in Star Wars for some people probably has interesting potential implications or questions.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> If that's for me, I didn't say I was hoping against it, more I didn't see that kind of chemistry between them up to this point. Will that change later, maybe. I could care less if they get together if it doesn't seem forced. That's more to do with the story and acting than anything.
> 
> And the fact that interracial or even interspecies relationship is blasé in Doctor Who, but causes meltdowns in Star Wars for some people probably has interesting potential implications or questions.


Haha no that was not for you. I agree with you but I have heard people make the same complaints and about the same in other movies. For what I've seen, British TV could careless about race mixing romances. I am sure it displeases some people but no one is making hissy fits about it like us Americans do. I think it speaks about the differences in our history and social climate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

they totally save the youth center in a biracial rap battle dance off this time.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> Hmmmm feminist?
> 
> It's fantasy. The plot elements were not political statements about women. The characters live in a fantasy movie universe full of surprising and innovative twist.
> 
> There is too much riding on this franchise to risk waking up too many hatters.


characters in stories serve as heros and archetypes for people.

Remember what Whoopi Goldberg said about seeing "Lt Uhura" on screen the first time. What stories exist IN your culture tell you what type of culture you have - what heroes it holds above the normal, what level of emotional repression it holds to itself, and what it needs to condemn as villainy. A "fantasy" story will tell you far more about a culture and its people than any number of political or official histories....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Errr... Star Trek was actually ahead of its time with its multi-ethnic cast, with Uhura, Sulu and Chekov. I wouldn't say it represented the type of culture in the Anglosphere at the time but what "it could be". It also took the piss outta it in ST4, with Chekov going into cold-war-era America asking for "Nuclear Wessels", heh it was classic 

I don't give a crap about race in the Star Wars film, or whatever 'biracial' breeding statements it wants to make. I'm more concerned with its ruining of Star Wars lore that has been established for a whole generation. This is something that many of us grew up with as kids, I still remember watching the original Star Wars movies again and again on VHS. Toy lightsabers too. So of course it's going to bother me if the franchise gets run into the ground with either a crap plot or crap characters.

At least with epi 1-3 it only had crap dialogue!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Loved the movie. But I didn't care for the prequels that much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Episodes 1 - 3 had more than crappie dialogue. 

Like why they were clearly security cameras in Palpatines office watching his nefarious goings on, and no one watched them til it was way too late. Or ... you are sensitive enough in the Force to feel deaths millions of miles away in space, but can't tell when two people in the same room are banging? They aren't putting off weird feelings or something?

So many questions.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

spotthedeaddog said:


> characters in stories serve as heros and archetypes for people.
> 
> Remember what Whoopi Goldberg said about seeing "Lt Uhura" on screen the first time. What stories exist IN your culture tell you what type of culture you have - what heroes it holds above the normal, what level of emotional repression it holds to itself, and what it needs to condemn as villainy. A "fantasy" story will tell you far more about a culture and its people than any number of political or official histories....


If I understand you correctly, I have to disagree. The point of fantasy is to escape the bounds of earth and culture. In it's place, a whole universe is created with it's own internal logic and rules. The fantasies that are most successful transcends the culture of the creator.

The ethnicity of the characters doesn't matter except that they make sense in the fantasy universe. Political correctness is not needed. The forces of good/evil, the concepts of right/wrong and the rules for the treatment of organic and machine life are all there and applicable to correctness in RL.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I found watching an old Princess Leia and Han Solo depressing. But overall this latest Star Wars film reminded me of the older ones, it seemed to get the series back on track after the three terrible prequels.

As for Wren, Darth Vader wore the mask and suit because he had to after being burnt and losing his limbs. Wren is just wearing it for kicks and to look like a badass? Wren is a pretty terrible villain, he looks like a hipster doofus from state school. The problem is Vader was such a great villain, that they can't match him as hard as they try.

Fin's character was great, but I find it highly unlikely a man taken as a boy from his family and raised like a Spartan to kill and do nothing but learn to be a fighting machine grows up to be that well adjusted, funny, honest, loyal, and sensitive to peoples suffering.

As for the OP RoTS was complete and utter ****, I agree with another poster lol.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

knobcreek said:


> I found watching an old Princess Leia and Han Solo depressing. But overall this latest Star Wars film reminded me of the older ones, it seemed to get the series back on track after the three terrible prequels.


Nostalgia is the only strong point of the film for me.



> As for Wren, Darth Vader wore the mask and suit because he had to after being burnt and losing his limbs. Wren is just wearing it for kicks and to look like a badass? Wren is a pretty terrible villain, he looks like a hipster doofus from state school. The problem is Vader was such a great villain, that they can't match him as hard as they try.


Worse that they made him so laughable that a mere stormtrooper landed a hit on him and got his butt handed to him by an untrained force-sensitive scavenger. Seriously IMO, JJA has not given much thought about the remifications of his plot when it comes to respecting the lore of the franchise.



> Fin's character was great, but I find it highly unlikely a man taken as a boy from his family and raised like a Spartan to kill and do nothing but learn to be a fighting machine grows up to be that well adjusted, funny, honest, loyal, and sensitive to peoples suffering.


Agreed, too unbelievable, and a HUGE wasted potential.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

My theories line up pretty much with Alex. I think Rey was trained at Luke's Jedi School. Her memory is suppressed but she can still access her training on a muscle memory type of level. 

I also thought I heard Kylo Ren's voice during her flashback saying "don't be afraid little one" or something like that.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

knobcreek said:


> *I found watching an old Princess Leia and Han Solo depressing. * But overall this latest Star Wars film reminded me of the older ones, it seemed to get the series back on track after the three terrible prequels.
> 
> As for Wren, Darth Vader wore the mask and suit because he had to after being burnt and losing his limbs. Wren is just wearing it for kicks and to look like a badass? Wren is a pretty terrible villain, he looks like a hipster doofus from state school. The problem is Vader was such a great villain, that they can't match him as hard as they try.
> 
> Fin's character was great, but I find it highly unlikely a man taken as a boy from his family and raised like a Spartan to kill and do nothing but learn to be a fighting machine grows up to be that well adjusted, funny, honest, loyal, and sensitive to peoples suffering.


That literally made me laugh. But yeah I know what you mean. It seemed their only purpose was to be the parents of a lame ass whiny villain. Wren's mask being pointless was a big let down. He went from mysterious villain to emo liberal arts major. All they had to do was fvck up the dude's face and give the mask meaning. 

And yes. I enjoyed Fin's character a lot. But his background was not very believable for the type of character he was. It's like they had these pre-packaged characters and had to find a way to fit them in the story. 



> As for the OP RoTS was complete and utter ****, I agree with another poster lol.


Whenever I try to tell people I enjoyed ROTS it reminds me of having a cool toy and trying to show it everyone. But everyoone thinks the toy is raggedy and wants to know why you keep playing with it:yawn2: 

Whatever guys:moon: Mark my words. 30 years from now, ROTS will be a classic!


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> As for Ren, he was shot in the leg sure, but you reckon that would stop a SITH?...Finn should not even had been able to land a hit in. Rey however, tore him a new one.



Ren comes across as a new incarnation of the Dark Side. He's emotional, prone to tantrums, and doesn't seem terribly accomplished with the weapon. You get the distinct impression that Darth Maul would have eaten him for lunch. 

But the series is already an incoherent mess..  and nobody but hard core fans or people with a critical interest in movies and writing seems to think about it that much.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Someone said the stormtroopers were clones. They were conscripts by the time of episodes IV - VI. The clones had advanced aging and died off during the Sith era.

The non-cloned ST add a layer of mystery and uncertainty to the saga. It's possible that someone infiltrated the training centers and messed with the minds of some of the conscripts. 007? Finn's defection could have been planned by some entity so that he was available to help Rey. 

Finn may not be as unbelievable as he seems. It appears that a ST can retain some of what amounts to free will and morality. After all, there was more than one rouge ST. The one who recognized Finn. He called Finn a traitor and tried to kill him. He was righteous and passionate. He didn't try to bring Finn back to the fold to be punished by his superiors. All on his own, he went all violent on him. Where did this guy come from? Well, he's dead now. 

If there are many more self-directed ST with a sense of right and wrong, the First Order is in deep sh!t. I can see leagues of ST joining the resistance.


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