# You Just Found Out She's Not In Love w/ You...



## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

...AND she told a 'white' lie about desiring you sexually.

There is no one else in the picture. Her attraction to you has lessened because some of your lifestyle choices really DO bother her and she:

-has lost a little respect for you because of some personal habits
-sometimes feels belittled by you
-finds your table manners disgusting & embarrassing
-dislikes your arrogance
-hates that you are on the filthy side (to her) 
-has detached/disconnected from you emotionally

What would you do if found ALL of this out? She hasn't told you all of this because she doesn't want to hurt you. But, she's really unhappy in what used to be a good relationship for her. You have expressed you are happy and in love. She's not.

She tries to 'live and let live.' She hasn't asked you to change. But, her feelings have changed. She loves you and doesn't want to break up. But, feels stuck and unhappy.

What would you do/say?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> ...AND she told a 'white' lie about desiring you sexually.
> 
> There is no one else in the picture. Her attraction to you has lessened because some of your lifestyle choices really DO bother her and she:
> 
> ...


Wait...your title says "She's not in love with you" but at the end you say "she loves you and doesn't want to break up". Which way is it? Loss of attraction and respect, or loss of love? 

Also, how did you find this out if she didn't tell you because she didn't want to hurt your feelings?


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> Wait...your title says "She's not in love with you" but at the end you say "she loves you and doesn't want to break up". Which way is it? Loss of attraction and respect, or loss of love?
> 
> Also, how did you find this out if she didn't tell you because she didn't want to hurt your feelings?


I am the woman who feels these things. I have loss respect & attraction. I don't want to break up. And I don't want to hurt his feelings. But I don't want to continue this way, wasting time. 

I guess my question is: how hurt would u be & how would u react?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I am the woman who feels these things. I have loss respect & attraction. I don't want to break up. And I don't want to hurt his feelings. But I don't want to continue this way, wasting time.
> 
> I guess my question is: how hurt would u be & how would u react?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you feel this way about him, why don't you want to break up? What keeps you with him?


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

It wasn't always this way. I guess I have this fantasy that I can get my feelings back to where they were. I don't feel safe being vulnerable. He does everything to try to make me emotionally comfortable like I used to be. But, I always have the, "Burn me one, twice..." thinking in my head. I detached to protect myself & its very unsatisfying. I feel alone & put out...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> It wasn't always this way. I guess I have this fantasy that I can get my feelings back to where they were. I don't feel safe being vulnerable. He does everything to try to make me emotionally comfortable like I used to be. But, I always have the, "Burn me one, twice..." thinking in my head. I detached to protect myself & its very unsatisfying. I feel alone & put out...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know your situation. What did he do to "burn" you? You sound like you've been very hurt by him. If he's truly done eveything to try to make you emotionally comfortable, you should be able to talk to him about your feelings. It sounds like perhaps he's content to go on with life and pretend everything's ok when they clearly are not. 

By the way, your OP could've been written by me...I completely relate to your feelings.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Was he always this way and you hoped he would change? Or has he evolved this way within the relationship? It's one thing to come to your senses after being deluded in the fog of the 'potential' of a relationship. For instance, after 4 weeks I realized my 'date' was overweight, didn't exercise, mismanaged his finances and his company business, was frequently behind on deliverables, was horrible with paperwork compliance being on time, only texted never called, could easily get lost by not checking directions in advance, drank too much, did not like to use condoms and liked to drive in dangerous areas in vehicles without air bags without buckling up. He also didn't get enough sleep and was down on himself because he was balding and ate way too fast and did not sleep well and liked to go to LA for a weekend to party (without me, lol.) For whatever reason I adored the guy. But the difference between reality and what I want is far too great. Could he change and have another go at the relationship? Probably. But would I have stayed in the relationship hoping that he would change or I would 'get used to it?' No way. My opinion with relationship partners is you take them as you find them. If someone puts on a good show and then evolves into a slob, you need to get better at due diligence and be willing to walk away from a relationship regardless of that little voice that tells you that you were once attracted to them and you somehow lost it and there is something he/she can do to let you regain the attraction. Be happy you had what you had, but don't expect someone to change. Just end it, and you can be honest about why. You can also let him know that if things change, he could contact you in the future (or not, if you don't want him to.) If you're dating, it's about discovery. Perhaps you commit too soon.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I would try to take things like menopause, clinical depression and the legitimacy of the complaints into account, but likely it would be over.

Life is too short to spend what little is left that way.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

I've always told my present wife and past SO's if they feel they can ever do better than me ....... to please be honest and let me know so I can hold the door open for them ???? 

Don't get me wrong ..... I'd be heartbroken and have been heartbroken but I'd hate for anyone to stay with me because she doesnt want to hurt my feelings ??? We'd both be miserable !!!


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Ocotillo, you are right. I am miserable w/ him & do want him to be happy.

OMG, you can ALWAYS do better & find someone else. Let's be honest. I think I am just lazy. If we do split, which is probable, I realize I would rather stay single. Relationships & marriage just don't seem to be all they are cracked up to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> ...AND she told a 'white' lie about desiring you sexually.
> 
> There is no one else in the picture. Her attraction to you has lessened because some of your lifestyle choices really DO bother her and she:
> 
> ...


If I found all that out somehow without her telling me, I would apologize and ask how she wants to proceed with divorce. Particullarly since you admit he is trying but you don't want to let him in. You both deserve to be happy, and if you can't or are not willing to try, then I think it is better for you both to go your separate ways to try and find happiness.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Communication and honesty are crucial to marital happiness. People are so hurt by walkaway spouses because they think all is fine with the marriage, and their spouse is detaching without giving any warning about what is wrong.

Sit him down, look in his eyes, hold his hands, and tell him what you find disgusting about his habits. Emphasize that you love him, but your attraction is diminished by his habits. Tackle one thing at a time. His arrogance and belittling should probably be the last thing to address, as this will be the hardest thing for him to change.

Since you are worried about hurting his feelings, rehearse what you will say ahead of time. If he doesn't want to change, then tell him why you are filing for divorce. He deserves a chance to fix your marriage.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I would be very hurt. Possibly breakup hurt. Definitely 'leave for a few weeks' hurt.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

i would listen.
and try to address the issues.
if that wasnt possible i would hit the bricks.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Ocotillo, you ate right. I am miserable w/ him & do want him to be happy.
> 
> OMG, you can ALWAYS do better & find someone else. Let's be honest. I think I am just lazy. If we do split, which is probable, I realize I would rather stay single. Relationships & marriage just don't deem to be all they are cracked up to be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So I was trying to really think about why I would react the way I posted. I think it is because looking at your post, the impression I get is that you are stringing him along (not that you are, but that is what a cynic would say). That you are sticking with him until you see something better, and that you don't seem willing to work (or let him do the work). That you are letting him work to meet your needs without the equivalent effort on your part to meet his.

As I said, I don't think that is what is going on. But consider that if your husband does find this out, he may well interpret it that way, particularly if he is making an effort to meet your needs.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> Communication and honesty are crucial to marital happiness. People are so hurt by walkaway spouses because they think all is fine with the marriage, and their spouse is detaching without giving any warning about what is wrong.
> 
> Sit him down, look in his eyes, hold his hands, and tell him what you find disgusting about his habits. Emphasize that you love him, but your attraction is diminished by his habits. Tackle one thing at a time. His arrogance and belittling should probably be the last thing to address, as this will be the hardest thing for him to change.
> 
> Since you are worried about hurting his feelings, rehearse what you will say ahead of time. If he doesn't want to change, then tell him why you are filing for divorce. He deserves a chance to fix your marriage.


Thank you. I really need to do this in the way you have suggested. My attraction is almost gone...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> I don't know your situation. What did he do to "burn" you? You sound like you've been very hurt by him. If he's truly done eveything to try to make you emotionally comfortable, you should be able to talk to him about your feelings. It sounds like perhaps he's content to go on with life and pretend everything's ok when they clearly are not.
> 
> By the way, your OP could've been written by me...I completely relate to your feelings.


I am so sorry, Waking. Feeling this way stinks.

I know I am not his "type." Recently we discussed this & he, of course, didn't share my perspective. I guess I just know deep down we arent a great match in many ways. Some ways we are. I am unhappy, but is that the worst thing in the world...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> Communication and honesty are crucial to marital happiness. People are so hurt by walkaway spouses because they think all is fine with the marriage, and their spouse is detaching without giving any warning about what is wrong.
> 
> Sit him down, look in his eyes, hold his hands, and tell him what you find disgusting about his habits. Emphasize that you love him, but your attraction is diminished by his habits. Tackle one thing at a time. His arrogance and belittling should probably be the last thing to address, as this will be the hardest thing for him to change.
> 
> Since you are worried about hurting his feelings, rehearse what you will say ahead of time. If he doesn't want to change, then tell him why you are filing for divorce. He deserves a chance to fix your marriage.


You are right. But, I feel hopeless. We are who we are...God, am I quoting a Ke$ha song? Ugh. LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So I was trying to really think about why I would react the way I posted. I think it is because looking at your post, the impression I get is that you are stringing him along (not that you are, but that is what a cynic would say). That you are sticking with him until you see something better, and that you don't seem willing to work (or let him do the work). That you are letting him work to meet your needs without the equivalent effort on your part to meet his.
> 
> As I said, I don't think that is what is going on. But consider that if your husband does find this out, he may well interpret it that way, particularly if he is making an effort to meet your needs.


Thank you for that perspective. If we break up, I would prefer to stay single. I would NEVER do this again. Too much effort & not enough satisfaction from it IMO - for me.

I need to address his barnyard habits. Just not sure I am able/willing to let him back in emotionally. It's almost like we speak 2 different languages. We occasionally have fun & connect, but for me not in the meaningful way I need. I talk to my girlfriends instead of him. It shouldn't be that way...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Thank you for that perspective. If we break up, I would prefer to stay single. I would NEVER do this again. Too much effort & not enough satisfaction from it IMO - for me.
> 
> I need to address his barnyard habits. Just not sure I am able/willing to let him back in emotionally. It's almost like we speak 2 different languages. We occasionally have fun & connect, but for me not in the meaningful way I need. I talk to my girlfriends instead of him. It shouldn't be that way...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So why are you staying with him? You don't love him, it is too much work to be with him, he has too many bad habits, you rarely connect, you would rather be single? 

Why do this to yourself? Why do it to him?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> ...AND she told a 'white' lie about desiring you sexually.
> 
> There is no one else in the picture. Her attraction to you has lessened because some of your lifestyle choices really DO bother her and she:
> 
> ...


I would be hurt, and extremely angry, that she thought so little of me, and our marriage, that she wouldn't reveal truth imperative to the health of our relationship.

I would be pissed off that she thought adding "white" in front of such an enormous, cruel lie somehow made it better.

If I was truly in love with her, I would feel betrayed, and embarrassed, that all this time I was with somebody who I thought truly accepted me, but actually has so little respect for me.

I would feel guilty, and ashamed, about my arrogance, and that I made her feel belittled, assuming that is truly the case, and not her warped imagination creating things to justify her disconnect.

I would adopt her disconnect, and likely become disillusioned, about both the marriage, and the woman I thought she was.

It would hit me that much of our life has become a big, fat lie, a mere facade of contentment. 

I would discuss ways to get back on track, but make it clear that separating is a very real possibility. 

Ultimately I will not stay where a woman is not IN love with me, desires me, respects me, and feels the same way. 

I will not stay in a dead marriage.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Try this for a few weeks. Whenever your spouse does something you like or appreciate, make the statement: “I appreciated you doing _______.” 

What it does: Right now, you and your spouse are focused on only negatives and probably taking for granted what is working. By looking for and shifting your focus to those things it helps you find the good stuff.  Also, by receiving the praise, you’ll find yourself wanting to hear it again... So you try to earn it. Sounds silly, but it does work. Doesn’t mean they’ll change and you find things you don’t like, but it does mean you’ll start rediscovering all those things about them that you do as well so those bad things aren’t the “defining character traits” of your perceptions.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> ...AND she told a 'white' lie about desiring you sexually.


My response: Ouch. Now GTFO. Those words sting and they don't go away. Yeah, imagine the chance of finding marital bliss if a guy says that to his wife. "Hey babe, I don't really desire you sexually... I've been lying to protect your feelings." Can you imagine if he said this to you?



honeysuckle rose said:


> ...
> But, she's really unhappy in what used to be a good relationship for her. She loves you and doesn't want to break up. But, feels stuck and unhappy.
> 
> What would you do/say?


I'd resent being attacked 15 ways at once by someone who effectively misled me all this time. I'd probably unload the things I don't like about her that I take in stride. I probably wouldn't be too willing to address the underlying causes out of sheer bitterness.

If the things you list are really the reasons you're unhappy (which if they've always been there... I doubt), then address them one at a time... you've let them go for so long... start small and work your way progressively.

"I really don't like when you ...., don't you think its nasty? Could you ...."

Gradually building up to something like this if he doesn't start improving on these things.

"I can't live with this. You do xyz and I've tried telling you how much it bothers me but you do nothing about it."

Unloading everything at once isn't a reconciliation speech imo. Its a "I want a divorce" speech that you give after you've tried to address the things you listed in a progressively stern manner.

Seriously though, you should just move on. What would your reaction be to being told "hey, I love you, but I'm unhappy. You're disgusting and arrogant; and I've been lying about my sexual desire for you."

I gotta say, a woman says that to me and I'd tell her "Great, I'll help you pack."


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi, this is my first post in "TMC". You are exactly like my exwife. Now, that is not a put down, it's just you sound just like her to the T! Now, if I could go thru ALL this again, I would want you to say." Baby, I know that we just got married and it cost alot but I want to end it, its me not you. I am looking for a different life. Please don't say anthing, just let me go. I will send you your things and not mess anything up, just let me go Please! Sorry! I got to go.
Now(I have said that three times tonight!) IF she had said that, I loved her enough to let her go! I would have thought it strange and asked if there was another guy but I would have let her go. Just my 2 cents David


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Since I have seen this before, I now have the advantage of being prepared. I carry a picture of our front door in my wallet for just this type of occasion. I would take out my wallet and take out the picture and hold it up so it could be seen clearly. Then I would go back to whatever I was doing.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Dvls, thank you for the advice. I really did let things pile up & never addressed it at all. I would NEVER say this in one go, but talk about the most irritating things first. Honestly, his boorishness didn't surface until he knew he had me on lock. He would have NEVER done half this stuff & didn't do it before we married. 

Yes, we always out our best foot forward at first. But, he showed his true gross nature after he got too comfortable. We all get comfortable in relationships, which is the point. But it's TO a point.

I will admit that my resentment over the keeping pics of exes & some in lingerie on his fone, as well as porn pics who look like his exes, communicating w/ exes who are being inappropriate w/ him, boundaries, and other things make me less able to forgive & get over it. 

Neither of us are bad people trying to hurt each other. I just feel sad and afraid to let him back in. Yes, he has apologized & tries. I am just hurt & feel disillusioned...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowledbet (Sep 5, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Ocotillo, you are right. I am miserable w/ him & do want him to be happy.
> 
> OMG, *you can ALWAYS do better* & find someone else. Let's be honest. I think I am just lazy. If we do split, which is probable, I realize I would rather stay single. Relationships & marriage just don't seem to be all they are cracked up to be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously? 

BTW... That would be a devastating conversation as I would hope that my wife would not have ANY of those feelings/thoughts. Let alone ALL of them.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Racer said:


> Try this for a few weeks. Whenever your spouse does something you like or appreciate, make the statement: “I appreciated you doing _______.”
> 
> What it does: Right now, you and your spouse are focused on only negatives and probably taking for granted what is working. By looking for and shifting your focus to those things it helps you find the good stuff. Also, by receiving the praise, you’ll find yourself wanting to hear it again... So you try to earn it. Sounds silly, but it does work. Doesn’t mean they’ll change and you find things you don’t like, but it does mean you’ll start rediscovering all those things about them that you do as well so those bad things aren’t the “defining character traits” of your perceptions.


Thank you, Racer. I am going to actively focus on the positive because ALL I see & feel is negative. I just hurt & feel alone. I understand that is my choice bcuz of my reaction...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

yellowledbet said:


> Seriously?
> 
> BTW... That would be a devastating conversation as I would hope that my wife would not have ANY of those feelings/thoughts. Let alone ALL of them.


I would be hurt too. But, it didn't happen in a vacuum. My fault is in not being honest & letting the chips fall where they may. I am not perfect, but I would & have never cross boundaries or just have none at all. I dunno. Is happiness in marriage the difference btw what you expect h what you get? I have started to expect nothing. It's very emotionally unsatisfying. I want to feel close to him & trust him w/ my heart like I used to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowledbet (Sep 5, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I would be hurt too. But, it didn't happen in a vacuum. My fault is in not being honest & letting the chips fall where they may. I am not perfect, but I would & have never cross boundaries or just have none at all. I dunno. Is happiness in marriage the difference btw what you expect h what you get? I have started to expect nothing. It's very emotionally unsatisfying. I want to feel close to him & trust him w/ my heart like I used to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not judging at all. I was just answering your question regarding how I would feel to hear those things.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Consider the spectacle of being honest with a bunch of strangers who have nothing at stake with you vs. dishonest with the person you are supposed to be closer to than anyone else on earth. 

Ask yourself if you want to be married to such a person.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Why are you still married to this man?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I would be hurt too. But, it didn't happen in a vacuum. My fault is in not being honest & letting the chips fall where they may. I am not perfect, but I would & have never cross boundaries or just have none at all. I dunno. Is happiness in marriage the difference btw what you expect h what you get? I have started to expect nothing. It's very emotionally unsatisfying. I want to feel close to him & trust him w/ my heart like I used to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you are actively preventing him from doing so. By not telling him these things, he can't address the issues. So you don't feel connected and won't let him in, yet prevent him from doing anything about it. I am not saying that any of this is easy. Based on this and other posts, I think any path is going to be difficult and likely painful. I am sorry that you are at this point. But delaying just continues that pain.

Avoiding making a decision eventually becomes the decision. You are deciding to end the relationship, but doing so slowly. Why put yourself and him through that?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I've been married/exclusive with my wife for 25 years. About three years ago I went to fix what I thought was a rut in our marriage. I loved her, she was my life partner and soul mate. She loved me, I was her life partner and soul mate. But I didn't like the 5 year rut we were in. After a year of trying to fix this thing, her actions didn't match her words, and I wanted to find out what was going on. So I pressed her and pressed her and she finally, mainly to shut me up, blurted out a couple of things on your list. I suddenly realized that the "rut" was actually a case of her NOT being my life partner and soul mate. As a matter of fact, she didn't really like me all that much. And I realized that it was much more than 5 years. The things she didn't like about me went back well before that.

Could I describe it as a kick in the gut? If I wanted to sugar coat it I could. In the 10 seconds it took her to tell me this, my present changed and my future changed. In the blink of an eye. But the odd thing? My PAST changed in the same moment. All of the love, the hugs, the kisses, the intimacy, the laughs...All gone. In a flash.

Devastated. My life ended in that one horrible moment. Am I angry at her for saying it to me? No. I was, and am to this day, angry for her NOT saying it to me. If she let me go 15 or 20 years ago, I may be happy today. I could have found a woman to love me, to hold me, to enjoy my kisses. I don't know when was the last time I kissed a woman that wasn't repulsed by me. I HATE her for taking that away from me. I'm old now. 3 teen kids. I'm stuck. I was the a-hole. I was the one that degraded her. I' was the one with the bad habits. But I hate HER for not telling me.

What did you say? I'll just be an a.s.s.h.o.l.e to my NEXT wife? No. That's the ONE good thing that came out of this. When someone rips your life apart and tells you it's YOUR OWN FAULT, you change. Next time we're running late and my son can't find his shoes, am I going to have a temper tantrum over that? Act the way I did that ruined my life? Uh, no. If my wife makes a stupid mistake on something, am I going to point it out like she's an idiot? (it was hard to even type that). No.

I'm a new person, but she's gone. So are you. Do him one favor. leave him. He deserves better. You deserve better. He needs to change, and there's only ONE way to do it (talking hasn't worked, has it?). Kick him in the gut. For HIM. It's going to happen some day anyhow. Do it while he has a chance to survive it. Don't wait until it's too late.

Please don't extend everyone's pain and heartache by tying to fix it first. Just leave.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

MrK, that sentence about your past changing really struck me. Thanks for sharing.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

MrK, I am so sorry for your pain...for both of you. Thank you for sharing such a raw, devastating experience with us. I can only imagine how hurt you were & angry you are. But, what about the women? I don't want undue sympathy. But what about the time lost for us, hoping it would get better bcuz it wasn't always this way? We didn't sign up for "this" either. Talk about a bait switch men always complain about...

I am going to work on my relationship & address things. Hopefully, we can compromise & change for the better as a couple. No, it will never be the same or even as good, but maybe there is hope. If not, at least I did give him & it a chance. I have no expectations. Whatever happens happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I will admit that my resentment over the keeping pics of exes & some in lingerie on his fone, as well as porn pics who look like his exes, communicating w/ exes who are being inappropriate w/ him, boundaries, and other things make me less able to forgive & get over it.


I too could have written your OP, but for me, it was the issues like the ones I quoted above that were central. Once I began to feel that I meant nothing to him, and that he'd rather be with someone else, I became much more irritated by his other faults.

When I confronted him, he also apologized and said he never meant to hurt me. But he never changed any of his behaviour either --and so I never really forgave him. Instead, the hurt festered and grew until I could barely stand the sight of him

I did end up telling him that I'd lost respect for him, and he was extremely hurt, and reacted much as many here have said. He didn't actually have a picture of the front door in his wallet, but he did point to it.

I sometimes wonder, though, if he did this because of what I said or because he never really respected me in the first place.

Not sure if any of that is helpful in any way...


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

always_alone said:


> I too could have written your OP, but for me, it was the issues like the ones I quoted above that were central. Once I began to feel that I meant nothing to him, and that he'd rather be with someone else, I became much more irritated by his other faults.
> 
> When I confronted him, he also apologized and said he never meant to hurt me. But he never changed any of his behaviour either --and so I never really forgave him. Instead, the hurt festered and grew until I could barely stand the sight of him
> 
> ...


 

It WAS & thank you for letting me know I am not alone. It's pretty funny how the men who have replied w/anger haven't addressed some of the causes of these issues, which I described. Guess you're insecure & immature if you are hurt & resentful over such silly things.

Men hear what they want to hear & it seems as if only their ego/penis has ears...(sorry, that was a rant about my own hurt & disillusionment). I know not all men are the same
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> Consider the spectacle of being honest with a bunch of strangers who have nothing at stake with you vs. dishonest with the person you are supposed to be closer to than anyone else on earth.
> 
> Ask yourself if you want to be married to such a person.


So helpful. Thanks for sharing...nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What would I do? I would divorce her. It would be obvious then that I can't forfill her needs and I'd rather have someone else who can appreciate me especially when I'm still young and still have a line-up. Also, that's completely leading me on if she kept THAT much sh-t under wraps out of "fear of hurting me". 

Due to this I guess I do appreciate that my wife gets IN MY FACE when it comes to our issues. I HATE it when she pulls the whole silent treatment thing, but at least she's always been OBVIOUSLY displeased. Sheez...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I am going to work on my relationship & address things. Hopefully, we can compromise & change for the better as a couple. No, *it will never be the same or even as good, *but maybe there is hope. If not, at least I did give him & it a chance. I have no expectations. Whatever happens happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wish you luck. I will say that I think the bold up above is wrong, in that there is always the chance that it is better. Better because you are being honest with him and him with you. Better because that allows you to really work on your relationship.

My last suggestion is to start the process slowly. Tell him you need things to change and work, one step at a time, to chane both of you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This may seem like a thread jack but i think this is appropriate for the OP too. I have to respond to Mr K.

Let's see, if i got this right. You have teenaged kids so you are in your 50? I know you are not dead because you have the power of thought. You even sound like a self-aware man. 

Unless there is some terrible defect in your character that prevents normal interaction with your fellow man, there is no reason you cannot find love. 

You have given up because of shock. You blame yourself because you made mistakes. When you are in a LTR, there is inevitably little things that annoy each person. 

Part of relationship maintenance is to clear the air on a regular basis and vow to make adjustments. Your wife chose to decieve you in the worse way possible. 

She held on to her resentment. She could have let go by telling you but she allowed herself to become emotionally constipated. 

Sounds like you took care of your problems, did she? I think It is time for you to forgive yourself and her. Don't hold on to your anger like she did. 

Let it go, not for her but for you. The best revenge is to do well.

So be well Mr K.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> It's pretty funny how the men who have replied w/anger haven't addressed some of the causes of these issues, which I described. Guess you're insecure & immature if you are hurt & resentful over such silly things.


Yes, most of them seemed to be approaching it as though the information would be coming completely out of the blue. Maybe sometimes it does happens that way -- and truth be told, if I heard these things when I thought everything was fine, I would be angry and utterly devastated too.

But it isn't just coming from nowhere -- and both your and my H should know that (unless they're completely oblivious). And just because they "don't mean" to be hurtful, doesn't mean they aren't.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Honey you seemed to have framed this problem incorrectly. I don't think you ever completely R after his deceptive, humiliating cheating. He may not have done everything that you needed to regain your trust and assuage your pain. 

You seem to have glossed over this in your rush to blame yourself. Are you under the impression that his behavior was not a serious blow to your trust and love? You may be distrustful of what you feel is an unrepentant spouse. I don't think it is really his piggishness that bothers you. 

Did you go through all of the stages of R? Do you have free access to his phone and computer? Is he still acting shady? 

I think the first thing you need to do is R completely. Sounds like you need to go to MC. IC may help you regain a positive outlook on life. 

He did an awful thing to betray someone he is supposed to love. He has to atone for it and be transparent. You need to heal at your own pace.

Start the R process in ernest. All of the other things about him will fade into the background where they should be.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> So helpful. Thanks for sharing...nothing.


You're welcome. And may I say cheerfully that you've not gotten what you fully deserve yet, because blaming someone else for your own dishonesty is a sure sign of more to come. 

This is the voice of a man deleriously happy with an amazing wife and mother that doesn't lie to him out of pity. Stupidity with "good intentions" behind it doesn't make it any less stupid. 

Proverbs is over two thousand years old, and rests upon thousands of years' human history prior. One of the most well-known proverbs is "In the end people appreciate frankness more than flattery". 

Despite this being one of the most well-known axioms to mankind, a no-brainer, a relationship 101 bedrock - you are going to need looking no further than the closest unhappy marriage to find a genius who is lying to their spouse.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> You're welcome. And may I say cheerfully that you've not gotten what you fully deserve yet, because blaming someone else for your own dishonesty is a sure sign of more to come.
> 
> This is the voice of a man deleriously happy with an amazing wife and mother that doesn't lie to him out of pity. Stupidity with "good intentions" behind it doesn't make it any less stupid.
> 
> ...


Good for you. So happy for you. Thanks for glossing over what he did to cause my mistrust and dislike. Didn't happen in a vacuum. Thanks again. Ever so helpful.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Honey you seemed to have framed this problem incorrectly. I don't think you ever completely R after his deceptive, humiliating cheating. He may not have done everything that you needed to regain your trust and assuage your pain.
> 
> You seem to have glossed over this in your rush to blame yourself. Are you under the impression that his behavior was not a serious blow to your trust and love? You may be distrustful of what you feel is an unrepentant spouse. I don't think it is really his piggishness that bothers you.
> 
> ...


Catherine, you, as usual, are correct. I am still full of disgust, mistrust, anger and resentment. Intellectually I know we all make mistakes and one incident doesn't define someone's character. However, I feel like I've been through this a few times. Sigh...He suggested MC and I didn't answer. I am sure part of me is more comfortable holding onto my resentment than giving him a chance. He HAS tried. But...burn me twice, even three times...He ISN'T a bad guy. Just not sure he's the guy for me anymore...Thank you so much for your perspective and advice. I need to try to fix it or leave. Seems easier to leave...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Yes, most of them seemed to be approaching it as though the information would be coming completely out of the blue. Maybe sometimes it does happens that way -- and truth be told, if I heard these things when I thought everything was fine, I would be angry and utterly devastated too.
> 
> But it isn't just coming from nowhere -- and both your and my H should know that (unless they're completely oblivious). And just because they "don't mean" to be hurtful, doesn't mean they aren't.


I think this post is important because it reveals the feelings of a woman who has turned off. 

Come on guys. You complain that women don't communicate about what bothers them or why they turn off sexually. Here is a post that offers the possibility of insight into the thinking of at lest one woman who has turned off. 

She may not be fair in your eyes but that is not going to stop her from feeling the way she does. 

Driving her away will not change anything. It is foolish to give up the opportunity to find out how and why this happened. 

Expressions of anger, threats of divorce and shoving women out of the door for daring to be criticle of their husband is overreacting under the cucumstances, don't you think? 

You have a right to your feelings of course. But isn't it wiser to pick the crops before you burn the field.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I think this post is important because it reveals the feelings of a woman who has turned off......


It is important, but like everything else in human communication, the delivery is absolutely crucial. 

"I'm not in love with you" is not the way to do it. I can't speak for other men, but I know exactly how my wife would react to that if it came from me.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

ocotillo said:


> It is important, but like everything else in human communication, the delivery is absolutely crucial.
> 
> "I'm not in love with you" is not the way to do it. I can't speak for other men, but I know exactly how my wife would react to that if it came from me.


I would never say that or ever say all of those things. Catherine is right: if I felt safe emotionally and could let go of the resentment, the other stuff would fall away. Feeling this way STINKS especially when it was heaven and you want that back.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Good for you. So happy for you. Thanks for glossing over what he did to cause my mistrust and dislike. Didn't happen in a vacuum. Thanks again. Ever so helpful.


You are relentless in saying the opposite of what you mean, the corollary to doing weird things so that your husband will "get it" instead of just telling him directly. 

Not once in this whole thread have you accepted even a tiny morsel of responsibility for not communicating clearly. I don't have to cheer you on for bad communication because your husband was a pig. 

The principle is the same whether it is training dogs, horses, children or husbands. If the dog poops on the floor and you don't deal with it directly then don't blame anyone but yourself for a house full of poop. 

Someone else seems to be pointing out an affair, which is absent from your early posts, and is rather like forgetting to mention your husband is doing time for rape or something.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ocotillo said:


> It is important, but like everything else in human communication, the delivery is absolutely crucial.
> 
> "I'm not in love with you" is not the way to do it. I can't speak for other men, but I know exactly how my wife would react to that if it came from me.


But that is how she feels. You have no control over how she expresses her feeling. She does not know your set of rules governing communication. 

This is the problem is it not? No one can control how you feel. No one can control how another expresses their feelings. 

The only rules are to be honest and receptive. If communicants are not allowed to express feeling in a reasonably sensitive way to a person who is reasonably receptive, then communication dries up. 

If someone I loved did not love me, i would want it neat, no ice. It would hurt like hell but I would rather a clean cut than little scratches leaving me in limbo. The former is kind, the latter is insensitive. .


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> _You are relentless in saying the opposite of what you mean, the corollary to doing weird things so that your husband will "get it"_instead of just telling him directly. /
> 
> *Don't know how you came up with that.*
> 
> ...


*He is not having an affair. But the hurt is just as bad when you FEEL like his preference/type, which isn't what YOU are, is what he seems to be stuck on. Sorry for being human.*


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> You are relentless in saying the opposite of what you mean, the corollary to doing weird things so that your husband will "get it" instead of just telling him directly.
> 
> Not once in this whole thread have you accepted even a tiny morsel of responsibility for not communicating clearly. I don't have to cheer you on for bad communication because your husband was a pig.
> 
> ...


Just because it was not in her early post dose not make it a mute point. 

Her husband cheated not once but many times. The terms she uses to describe him are what one would say of a deceitful, person who does not respect or care about the feelings of others. 

He is a serial cheater the worse type. He is unlikely to have the character to resist the next opportunity to decieve and hurt her again in my opinion. She does not trust him and she should not. 

He got her to forgive him the first second and third time by doing all of the right things. Why is this time any different? 

She appears to have made two mistakes, she forgive him too easily and she did not leave after the second transgression.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> Talk about a bait switch men always complain about...


It is a total bait and switch. I thought that earlier, but didn't post it.

We're talking about double standards in another thread, and this one totally works against women, and in favor of men.

Because we too do a lot of bait and switching, but I seldom see us called out for it, at least here on TAM.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

honeysuckle rose said:


> *He is not having an affair. But the hurt is just as bad when you FEEL like his preference/type, which isn't what YOU are, is what he seems to be stuck on. Sorry for being human.*


This is bad. Honey from what you reveal here, he just does not sound like marriage material. 

With all of that, why are you remaining in the relationship? It cannot be that you don't want to hurt him. He is doing all the right things now but can such a weak person keep it up? How do you confirm that he is being honest? You have to verify. He lies. 

I'll bet if you look hard enough you will find he is still watching porn. That habit is very difficult to break. If he has fetishes, they are extremely difficult to break. 

I don't think his problems will go away without intensive therapy. He seems to have a penchant to yield to temptation that will not go away easily. 

Imagine what your life will be like if you stay. The ever present porn, you lack of trust, the worry that he will contact some random woman in a weak moment. The difficulty of intimacy. Imagine bringing children into this. 

Don't live like that. Gather the stregth to leave. He did not care about your feelings when he cheated. I don't think you are obliged to regard his feelings above your own.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

From your original post:



honeysuckle rose said:


> What would you do if found ALL of this out? She hasn't told you all of this because she doesn't want to hurt you. But, she's really unhappy in what used to be a good relationship for her. You have expressed you are happy and in love. She's not.


Your reply to my story:



honeysuckle rose said:


> But what about the time lost for us, hoping it would get better bcuz it wasn't always this way? We didn't sign up for "this" either. Talk about a bait switch men always complain about...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You asked me what I thought. Since I had experience with the exact same thing, I thought I'd share. I cannot speak for what women go through. My wife will still not talk about it to this day. I will admit, however, that I was the a-hole in my relationship. It was my fault. But I am still livid that she never tried to help me. Help US. She quit. And that sucks.

Damn near 100% of walk-away's will INSIST they told their husbands what was wrong and they should have seen it coming. And pretty much 100% of men will be shocked by it. All me are stupid as well as abusive? Or maybe there is a HUGE disconnect that needs to be addresses. SO MANY walk-aways, SO MANY men shocked when it happens. When are we going to deal with this epidemic the way it needs to addressed?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

You know her feelings have changed. You have two options: 
1) try to win her back by changing your unspeaking habits (anyone would object to a rude, dirty, egomaniac) and hopefully regain some self-respect in the meantime.
2) let her go find someone else who isn't an oaf while you find someone else who likes your grungy ways.

How did you find these things out?

If you love her And want things to work, compromise your convenience and change a little; it's going to make you a better guy and it's going to make your relationship better.

Now, if she wants out, let her go and do the 180 for yourself.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> We're talking about double standards in another thread, and this one totally works against women, and in favor of men.


We have REALLY got to take this out of the "them vs. us" mentality. There is a disconnect here. It needs to be addressed rationally.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I would never say that or ever say all of those things. Catherine is right: if I felt safe emotionally and could let go of the resentment, the other stuff would fall away. Feeling this way STINKS especially when it was heaven and you want that back.


Thanks HS. That clarifies things considerably. My response was based on taking the thread title literally, as in my wife suddenly says to me, "I'm not in love with you." 

If instead, my wife told me, I'm not showering often enough, or my table manners leave a lot to be desired, I'd make changes that very day.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> But that is how she feels. *You have no control over how she expresses her feeling.* She does not know your set of rules governing communication.
> 
> This is the problem is it not? No one can control how you feel. No one can control how another expresses their feelings.
> 
> The only rules are to be honest and receptive. *If communicants are not allowed to express feeling in a reasonably sensitive way *to a person who is reasonably receptive, then communication dries up.


Sorry Catherine, but your post contradicts itself. You note that one has no control over the other, than assume the communication is done "in a reasonably sensitive way." I agree that you can't control how your partner communicates, but I also can't assume it will be done in a reasonably sensitive way. 

And frankly, delivery does matter. We can say all we want that it should not, but that is not the real world. 



> If someone I loved did not love me, i would want it neat, no ice. It would hurt like hell but I would rather a clean cut than little scratches leaving me in limbo. The former is kind, the latter is insensitive. .


I agree completely. The OP has real reasons for disconnecting. I don't blame her. Where I do "blame" her is dragging this on. For what ever reason, she is not telling him about the things he is doing that don't work for her. Since she is the one here, I can only give her advice. My advice is to not prolong the pain for either of them.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

always_alone said:


> Yes, most of them seemed to be approaching it as though the information would be coming completely out of the blue. Maybe sometimes it does happens that way -- and truth be told, if I heard these things when I thought everything was fine, I would be angry and utterly devastated too.
> 
> But it isn't just coming from nowhere -- and both your and my H should know that (unless they're completely oblivious). And just because they "don't mean" to be hurtful, doesn't mean they aren't.


I just want to note that many times men and women communicate differently. So just because one has "communicated" an idea numerous times does not automatically mean it has been received numerous times or that the other person is oblivious for not getting it.

In a thread awhile back, I had an exchange with a female poster. In the context of a decreased sex life, the posters friend had complained about how tired she was. The husband responded by doing more chores. The reaction was surprise over how clueless he was, because clearly "tired" meant she needed more sleep. The female poster even thought so, while I thought his response was reasonable. It was revealed that the friend had never specified, even though she noted she had "communicated" that request numerouse times.

Yes, people can be oblivious and uncaring. But I do think it is worth the time to step back and see if changing our preferred method of communication may help the situation.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MrK said:


> Damn near 100% of walk-away's will INSIST they told their husbands what was wrong and they should have seen it coming. And pretty much 100% of men will be shocked by it. All me are stupid as well as abusive? Or maybe there is a HUGE disconnect that needs to be addresses. SO MANY walk-aways, SO MANY men shocked when it happens. When are we going to deal with this epidemic the way it needs to addressed?


What would be your idea of the way it needs to be addressed?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But I do think it is worth the time to step back and see if changing our preferred method of communication may help the situation.


:iagree:
When I made that comment, it was specifically with reference to two people who have been told time and time again, and in multiple different ways that they were acting hurtfully -- and they choose to do absolutely nothing about it.

But ultimately I think you are right. There are a zillion different ways that we communicate all different sorts of conflicting and vague messages. And words are just a small part of that. They may even be secondary to all of the subtle nuances of body language, attitude, and emotion.

When my SO crawls into bed as late as he can and as far away from me as he can get, I can't help but read it as a rejection because he's done that to avoid touching me so many times in the past. Then I roll over, seethe in a bit of resentment, and fall back asleep. He notices that resentment and works even harder to avoid me -- which of course I also resent. All of this without saying a word. 

When we then talk about it, I might say something like "I feel you are avoiding me", and he'll respond that he just didn't want to disturb me. Or I might ask why he doesn't want sex with me, and he'll say he's tired (or whatever). The words just never capture what's really going on.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Sorry Catherine, but your post contradicts itself. You note that one has no control over the other, than assume the communication is done "in a reasonably sensitive way." I agree that you can't control how your partner communicates, but I also can't assume it will be done in a reasonably sensitive way.
> 
> And frankly, delivery does matter. We can say all we want that it should not, but that is not the real world.
> 
> ...


I misspoke. I meant "no control over how she feels" rather than how she communicates. 

She must communicate her feelings in a way that respects his feelings and he must do the same. 

To your second point - her telling him what does not work for her. Serial cheating, humiliating behavoir, betrayal, are high on my list.

Asking him to eat with his mouth closed is unneccesary if she is not there to witness his improvement. She should have been out of there yesterday.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

always_alone said:


> When we then talk about it, I might say something like "I feel you are avoiding me", and he'll respond that he just didn't want to disturb me. Or I might ask why he doesn't want sex with me, and he'll say he's tired (or whatever).


always_alone,

please don't take this the wrong way but "I feel you ..." works exactly like the "You ..." statements you are probably trying to avoid. When your partner hears this, they (rightfully) feel they are going to be criticized and they go into defensive mode and don't hear a thing you say. A better dialog might be:

"I feel aloneness and I would like to feel relationship"
"What are you talking about, I didn't do anything."
"Exactly. Is it OK if I ask you to kiss me whenever you get into bed?"


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> always_alone,
> 
> please don't take this the wrong way but "I feel you ..." works exactly like the "You ..." statements you are probably trying to avoid. When your partner hears this, they (rightfully) feel they are going to be criticized and they go into defensive mode and don't hear a thing you say. A better dialog might be:
> 
> ...


Why is it people don't just say "come cuddle with me", rather than "I feel you are avoiding me" or other accusatory line?

In my marriage, we both perceived the other as being avoidant. I'm not sure how it began, nor do I think it matters much to the solution, but that's the way it was. I thought it was her and she thought it was me. I didn't pursue her anymore because she never pursued me anymore. She said she didn't pursue me because I wasn't pursuing her.

Ultimately, how does this get resolved? Its the chicken and the egg. If you can't get past the resentment of feeling undesired, how does one start desiring one's spouse again? In my case, I still wanted her, but resentment made me shut down toward her. We never did manage to reignite because neither of us would simply go get what we wanted from the other over our perception that our desire was one-sided. We talked about it to death, but it never changed the core emotions. It was like a death spiral.

This would be useful to understand should it recurr in a future relationship.

Has anyone recovered from such a thing to feel mutual desire again?


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Why is it people don't just say "come cuddle with me", rather than "I feel you are avoiding me" or other accusatory line?
> 
> In my marriage, we both perceived the other as being avoidant. I'm not sure how it began, nor do I think it matters much to the solution, but that's the way it was. I thought it was her and she thought it was me. I didn't pursue her anymore because she never pursued me anymore. She said she didn't pursue me because I wasn't pursuing her.
> 
> ...


I find myself doing this, but i hope (and think) that perhaps my wife and i are recovering from this kind of situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Why is it people don't just say "come cuddle with me", rather than "I feel you are avoiding me" or other accusatory line?
> 
> In my marriage, we both perceived the other as being avoidant. I'm not sure how it began, nor do I think it matters much to the solution, but that's the way it was. I thought it was her and she thought it was me. I didn't pursue her anymore because she never pursued me anymore. She said she didn't pursue me because I wasn't pursuing her.
> 
> ...


I think at some point, you have to set aside your resentment and take a leap. It involves risk, but someone has to give first (or at least I don't know any other way).



> Has anyone recovered from such a thing to feel mutual desire again?


I certainly never got that far, but I did take that leap. I made my changes and started doing these things hoping that it would get things running smoothly again. It did for us, but we never really turned things off.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> If you can't get past the resentment of feeling undesired, how does one start desiring one's spouse again?


This takes an act of will, to love someone who doesn't love you back. One can create desire by getting control of one's thinking. Probably the most difficult thing I have ever done, something like what I would imagine being burned alive must feel like. But in the end, of course, one is untouched. In my simplistic code, this falls directly on the man's shoulders.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> always_alone,
> 
> please don't take this the wrong way but "I feel you ..." works exactly like the "You ..." statements you are probably trying to avoid. When your partner hears this, they (rightfully) feel they are going to be criticized and they go into defensive mode and don't hear a thing you say. A better dialog might be:
> 
> ...


Hmmmm. Interesting. I sounds like dancing around the issue, but I could try. Tell me, how do I say "put down the [email protected] porn already and try out some real sex" without sounding accusatory?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Why is it people don't just say "come cuddle with me", rather than "I feel you are avoiding me" or other accusatory line?


Because when you say come cuddle, he says I'm busy, or I don't want to go to bed that early, or why do you always demand cuddling, or just rolls his eyes and ignores you.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Just because it was not in her early post dose not make it a mute point.
> 
> Her husband cheated not once but many times.


Wow, do you have trouble reading plain English.

A mute point? It's the ENTIRE point. This woman is a serial bad communicator. It is wrong to leave off such critical information. eg "I don't like sex with my husband. Is that normal?" Then adding a little "Oh by the way, he's been dead for six months" detail. 

As I clearly implied, this matters a LOT. 

*always_alone* If I saw your husband do that to you I'd pour a pitcher of ice water on him. That's mean.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting. I sounds like dancing around the issue, but I could try. Tell me, how do I say "put down the [email protected] porn already and try out some real sex" without sounding accusatory?


Simple enough:

"I feel abandoned and left all to myself. I didn't get married for this. You are my husband and I want you to do something about it."


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm just going to stick to what I've read from OP.

For the love of all that is holy TELL HIM!!!

You're saying this didn't happen in a vaccum but you're being vague even in your posts about your feelings and what he's done to warrant them. 

Men are not from Mars. We're from earth. Food and women and we're good. Tell him straight up what you are feeling and more importantly exactly why you're feeling that way.

If you have already and he refuses to change I appologize. I'm just getting the impression you sort of hint towards certain things and talk around the issues instead of sitting him down and just telling him, "look dude, you're gross. Go take a shower and do it on the regular or we're done". Or "dude, stop saving questional pics of your ex's on your phone or we're done and give me access to it so I can verify.

You deserve to be happy but if you love him, he deserves a REAL opportunity to snap out of it and be the man he was. He may not even realize how far gone he is.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Because when you say come cuddle, he says I'm busy, or I don't want to go to bed that early, or why do you always demand cuddling, or just rolls his eyes and ignores you.


I can relate to not wanting to go to bed as early as my wife did. Its just a difference in personalities I think, and I kinda liked having more of my own time where I wasn't expected to be doing something she wanted to do or otherwise entertaining her. We had a number of other issues that led me to avoiding her out of resentment and my own assertive weakness.

If I wanted sex, I wasn't direct about wanting sex. I probably wasn't direct about anything I wanted from her. I'm not sure how this evolved, because it wasn't always the case, but it did. I became a hint dropper. I would create circumstances for things to go the way I wanted, then hoped she got a clue and gave me some kind of signal that she wanted something. In hindsight, I'm sure a lot of my behavior made it look like I never wanted her. In truth, I wasn't being assertive enough and she wanted me to come get what I wanted. I wanted her to basically do what I was doing... drop me some hints that she actually wanted me. Nobody bothered to just stick their neck out and make it happen. I was incapable of showing need.

I view this today as a personal failing of mine. While she had plenty of issues of her own, I could have fixed a number of our problems simply by being more of a man, being direct about what I wanted from her and leading in the bedroom rather than hinting and trying to get her to show she wanted me (which was how I was subconsciously eliminating the problem of me needing her). Ironically, I was guilty of much of what I accused and resented her for and I couldn't see it at all.

Much of my behavior was based on the notion that I had to convince her to have sex. That it was somehow rude or burdensome of me to just come and get her, show my assertiveness, be unashamed of pursuing her for my needs and EXPECT that she wanted me. I viewed such behavior as a kind of using for sexual gratification or objectification. I've come to rethink things dramatically.

Perhaps your husband has the same problem. Understanding this now, I recognize it was incumbent upon me as the man to ACT and assert my desire. There's probably no way she could have ever gotten this message across to me however.

I'm not sure how you could get your husband to recognize his role as a man in "using" you to satisfy his needs. He probably views it with the same disdain I know you do. Given your views on dominance we discussed in the other thread, you might even be turned off by such assertiveness. Or perhaps, for lack of a better word, your distaste for such dominant behavior has sort of "domesticated" him and he's retreated to porn.

He might have lost touch with his masculine power, just as I now realize I did.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> Wow, do you have trouble reading plain English.
> 
> A mute point? It's the ENTIRE point. This woman is a serial bad communicator. It is wrong to leave off such critical information. eg "I don't like sex with my husband. Is that normal?" Then adding a little "Oh by the way, he's been dead for six months" detail.
> 
> ...


I can't spell English words very well but i recognize them when I read, even when they are spelled correctly. 

Are serial bad communicators worse than serial cheaters? 

Just askin


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## Sigma Uber Alles (Oct 15, 2012)

MrK said:


> From your original post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Women often discuss things "in their heads" and often with friends and "others" without ever saying a word to their spouse about it. They then rewrite their internal history to agree with the "fact" that the issues are "all talked out", when in fact the man is totally in the dark. When the final straw comes, the man is mystified by both the suddeness and angry resentment the woman displays. This is the essence of the dysfunctional American Female.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I have no doubt that the American Males in the forum can relate to this behavior.

(Note: Not all women are like this, but many are.)


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sigma Uber Alles said:


> Women often discuss things "in their heads" and often with friends and "others" without ever saying a word to their spouse about it. They then rewrite their internal history to agree with the "fact" that the issues are "all talked out", when in fact the man is totally in the dark. When the final straw comes, the man is mystified by both the suddeness and angry resentment the woman displays. This is the essence of the dysfunctional American Female.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt, but I have no doubt that the American Males in the forum can relate to this behavior.
> 
> (Note: Not all women are like this, but many are.)


I think that men and women seem to have a tendency to relationship issues that are associated with gender. Not all and not to the same degree. 

One gender based problem is that some men tune their wives out if the subject is not important to them. 

This is not a critiszem, but an aspect of a relationship that many men need to make a special effort to avoid. Women have their gender based tendency to issues that they need to work on too. 

I can't think of one though. .


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## RAVENS1 (Feb 21, 2013)

I have had the same situation. I have known my wife for many years. We reconnected last year. We have been married for only 5 months. But, in July last year, I finally got the nerve to ask her why I have never heard her say that she was "in love" with me- she said that in her mind, being "in love" is a fleeting thing where loving someone is much more lasting. I, however, am in love with her, have been for a long time. I also know that I am not the "love of her life"- but, she is mine. I am having a difficult time dealing with all this as well. I know she loves me, but I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that I am not the love of her life, that she is not "in love" with me. I have read post after post, and they all say the same thing: Get Over It, boy, would I love to. It is just not that easy. Yes, I married way over my head- I just feel as though if she were fat and ugly- I sure would not worry about all this. But, that is not the case- a large part of me feels as though this is just the price of being married to a beautiful woman


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

The very title of this thread is something I fear in a marriage.


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