# All American Tragedy



## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Here is very sad but true statistic:

My 12 yr old daughter had a birthday/sleepover with 5 other 12 yr old girls last night.

I heard the girls all talking in the other room about counseling sessions due to divorce. 

One girl lives with her married parents.
One girl was conceived from an extra-marital affair and never met her dad.
One girl's parents recently divorced due to her dads infidelity with another MAN. 
One girl lives with her dad and siblings due to her Moms infidelity. 
And my daughter who is living with me while her dad and I are going through the a divorce due to his 2 affairs.

The All American family. Sad!


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

FrustratedFL said:


> Here is very sad but true statistic:
> 
> My 12 yr old daughter had a birthday/sleepover with 5 other 12 yr old girls last night.
> 
> ...


Sad statistics isn't it?? My parents divorced when I was 5 due to my dad cheating on my mom.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

I have been thinking on this American Tragedy for awhile now and I am beginning to believe that marriage is an unnatural thing. We may have intelligence, but we are still animals. Back in the day, people stayed in marriages because of religion or fear of what others would think. Nowadays, everyone is free and easy and run at the first sign of trouble.

On the other side of this is my personal experience. I have an awful father, tyrant, jerk, you name it. My mother is still with him and all of us kids are grown. If anyone should have gotten a divorce, it is my parents. Had they done so, it would have saved me thousands on therapy!


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

it's not just tragedy in America, it's everywhere, like some sort of pandemic. It's almost as if it is not fashionable to be married any more.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

We're all ignorant about relationships. 

Nobody tells us anything about finding some one who is truly compatible.

And then a lot of people really are crappy people and not fit to be in a relationship, and eventually wear down their spouse or drive them away.

So really it is no surprise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Where do you live?

My daughter's friends (also 12) don't have those stats. 3 of her friends are with married parents. 1 had a dad who is a butthole. 1 has divorced parents. But they're amicable.

Other cultures may stay together but then the children see the abuse, rather than get out of it.

Your kids talk about deep things. My daughter and her friends talk about Hunger Games, homework, cute boys at school and that kinda of stuff.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

My mom left my dad for another man and abandoned us when I was six and my sister was about two years old. Funny that, except for my sister, the two most important women in my life were both cheaters. I must be the butt of some cosmic joke. 

Guess what I'm saying is, if this happened to us back in 1973, then it has always been going on all through time. Our ability to instantly access information today is what is bringing such infidelity to light. I think the numbers have always been the same, we just didn't hear about it or see it back then because alot of this behavior was kept under cover.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Sad.

In America, it is reported and discussed. Elsewhere, I dont think so.

IMO, your stats seems skewed. I dont think infidelity exists in such a huge way.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I am a firm believer of traditional Indian arranged marriages. The advantage of this is the support of parents and elders during the ups and downs in a marriage, emotional and financial.

They are like watch dogs, they have an eye on their children s life. For that the parents should be of good morals.

The divorce rate and unsatisfied marriages are in increase in India, its mainly among urban couples because of flat culture, where the couples live alone and they cant withstand small downs of their marriage, they usually don't get the support of the family as they usually hide it from others, the parents only knows about it when things are worst or when unrepairable damage is done.

For a family to be happy and everlasting their should be help and support from parents, self control and control over us by others, its not controlling in my view, its a way to keep us responsible to other partners. 

There is nothing like absolute freedom or privacy in a marriage.
Husband should be a controlling person and head of the family and he should be controlled by his wife and children. No one deserve absolute freedom in a marriage as its a joint institution comprising husband wife children s.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

that Girl - I live in Florida in a middle/upper class neighborhood. The girls talk about all sort of things including boys, school, movies but also have a lot in common due to there personal living circumstances. 

AngryandUsed - I only voiced the stats at a 12 yr old birthday party with 6 girls. 1 married couple, 5 relationships askewed by infidelity.

Infidelity happens everywhere. I agree. It happens in every culture, economic scale and age range. 

I am clearly disgusted with this self destructive self indulgent behavior without any disregard to the family structure or the innocent children that become victims of this self destructive behavior.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

It's not just the U.S. FFL, it's rife here in the UK too.
I feel that somehow the value of the family has been eroded by an overstimulation of consumerism, political correctness and expected freedoms. We're constantly told what we should do, what we can do and that we have the right to make our own choices.
But there is little done to promote responsibility and consequence of actions.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Infidelity is one of those things that... If you haven't experienced it first hand, it doesn't really show up on your daily agenda.

You may hear of a acquaintance or relative from time to time that's been cheated on and ponder for a short period. Let it happen to you personally, and it's a whole different story.

After discovering my wife had been cheating on my for years, the number of women (friends) that came forward to my wife to "console" that had previously cheated on their husbands was ridiculous. My wife opened up to friends and family to explain the difficulties going on in our marriage. The numbers were just crazy, cousins, fellow teachers, even one of our preacher's wife.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

RWB said:


> If you haven't experienced it first hand, it doesn't really show up on your daily agenda.


Abso-freaking-lutely.
It's something that happens to 'other' people.
Until you become an 'other' person.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

AngryandUsed said:


> I dont think infidelity exists in such a huge way.


lol.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

RWB said:


> Infidelity is one of those things that... If you haven't experienced it first hand, it doesn't really show up on your daily agenda.
> 
> You may hear of a acquaintance or relative from time to time that's been cheated on and ponder for a short period. Let it happen to you personally, and it's a whole different story.
> 
> After discovering my wife had been cheating on my for years, the number of women (friends) that came forward to my wife to "console" that had previously cheated on their husbands was ridiculous. My wife opened up to friends and family to explain the difficulties going on in our marriage. The numbers were just crazy, cousins, fellow teachers, even one of our preacher's wife.


This is accurate. Though stats will always be just that, stats...I am a believer that the infidelity figure is north of 80% based on what I have gone through/heard/suspected in my network of friends and family.

I'm also beginning to believe that this all american marriage structure is antiquated. For those that are capable of it...and it's clearly not for everyone...I am beginning to believe that there should be freedom in a marriage so as long as every thing is fully transparent. 

The funny thing in my situation is that when I asked my WW about swinging, she responded that she wouldn't be comfortable seeing me with another woman. HILARIOUS, considering she was the one always running around behind my back, and I clearly could handle seeing her with another man. Hell, I've taken her back after 3 PA's. Seems to be par for the course though, the wayward being the jealous type. Ridiculous.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I also think the true numbers are higher than many think. Of course I am jaded, but I personally know of only two men who haven't cheated on their wives - my father and my husbands father. At least, if they did cheat, no one knows they did. Every single other male that I know who has been married or in a serious relationship has cheated. Funnily enough, I do not know any women who have cheated. But women are swiftly catching up to men, if they haven't already.

I really think marriage is an unnatural state for humans. If it wasn't it wouldn't be so hard to have a good marriage. I think being married has great benefits for both parties, but they have got to be willing to work at it, and work at it really hard, all their lives. And most people aren't - they take the easy way out.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I don’t think that I would want an arranged marriage, nor would I want that for my daughter. At the same time, it seems that, for most of us on TAM and people in general, we are lousy at finding the right mate.
We would probably do better if we had to draw straws and marry that person. May be if we even picked some stranger at random and marry that person, we would do better.( Eny meenie miney mo) Don’t know how to spell that! I remember doing that as a teenager and we had to kiss that person
Was it always this way and SAHM and husbands had no choice in the matter so they had to stay?

Were married couples always unhappy and divorce wasn’t the thing to do?

Most of my neighbors are divorced. Some have kids at home and many other divorced 50 year olds with a dog.

I agree with Hope. Marriage is unnatural


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## HelpHerHeal (Mar 11, 2012)

There is a grave information gap in today's society. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot ignore that the mainstream religions are a great foundation for an economical solution of life and morals. Problem occurs where people will now simply say "I don't believe in God" and in a shot throw out all the teachings along with it, however right they may be. Now we are simply left with miniscule preventative measures making it easier to carry out sinful deeds.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

HelpHerHeal said:


> There is a grave information gap in today's society. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot ignore that the mainstream religions are a great foundation for an economical solution of life and morals. Problem occurs where people will now simply say "I don't believe in God" and in a shot throw out all the teachings along with it, however right they may be. Now we are simply left with miniscule preventative measures making it easier to carry out sinful deeds.


I am sorry, but the idea that the only thing keeping us from happy, cheating free marriage's is societies religious beliefs makes me laugh out loud. There are many aetheists who have happy marriages with no adultory, while many devote christians cheat on their spouse. It is a human condition, not a religious issue.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think where you live matters too.

Where I live, and my friends, all waited to marry until their late late 20s or early 30s. Some even late 30s. Way better (imo) than marrying at 20 or even younger.

People in this area take care of their crap first before adding a partner's crap to deal with.

I don't know any men who have cheated, or women  Maybe they got all their stuff out of their system before marriage.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Me: Athiest - never cheated and still don't want to. Hold the value of the family highly and believe it is the responsibility of every parent to provide a strong and secure background to bring up the kids

WW: Catholic - Cheated, lied and continued to lie. Told the kids that they were part of the reason she cheated, her (very religious) family are all messed up with inter-relation fighting and backstabbing going on all the time. 

Personal values are the key in a successful marriage.
I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't pretend to be either.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Wow well if religious belife was a real role in things then I would have cheated years ago.:scratchhead: 

No it is the person who cheats fault and nothing more. Because they come form all walks of life, backgrounds, area, and belifes. It is a human condition. Blaming it on believers and non believers is crazy because the bad apple is in every bunch.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Numb-badger said:


> Me: Athiest - never cheated and still don't want to. Hold the value of the family highly and believe it is the responsibility of every parent to provide a strong and secure background to bring up the kids
> 
> WW: Catholic - Cheated, lied and continued to lie. Told the kids that they were part of the reason she cheated, her (very religious) family are all messed up with inter-relation fighting and backstabbing going on all the time.
> 
> ...


My situation is similar. I grew up Southern Baptist in a staunchly conservative home, but turned my back on organized man-made religion (but not God) as a young adult. My wife was born Catholic, raised Catholic, went to a prestigious Catholic school here, and even had a quincenera when she was fifteen that actually cost more than our wedding did! Even during her most recent EA/PA she was still going to Saturday evening mass like clockwork, and may still be going for all I know or care.

What I'm trying to say is, my wife and I were both raised by conservative, religious and moral parents (my dad in my case) and yet it seems that I was the only one to latch onto that monogamous "forsaking all others" mentality. It didn't catch a hold with my wife.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

HelpHerHeal said:


> There is a grave information gap in today's society. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot ignore that the mainstream religions are a great foundation for an economical solution of life and morals. Problem occurs where people will now simply say "I don't believe in God" and in a shot throw out all the teachings along with it, however right they may be. Now we are simply left with miniscule preventative measures making it easier to carry out sinful deeds.


Mom? Is that you???

Sorry, but saying religion would solve all our problems is pretty naive. Religion has been the source of more problems in my life than probably any other single thing.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Rough story, but the good news is that in reality, the divorce rate has fallen over the last three decades. Even better news is that if you're an educated person (i.e. have at least a college degree), chances are really good that your marriage will last.

So while it's awful to hear about situations like your daughter's social circle, the sky really is not falling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

HelpHerHeal said:


> Problem occurs where people will now simply say "I don't believe in God" and in a shot throw out all the teachings along with it, however right they may be.


This is ludicrous. I am an atheist dealing with the aftermath of my Catholic wife's A. I have never cheated on her and firmly believe in marriage being the most precious promise I have ever made to anyone. My wife, on the other hand, now says she will turn back to god and be better.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Mom? Is that you???
> 
> Sorry, but saying religion would solve all our problems is pretty naive. Religion has been the source of more problems in my life than probably any other single thing.


I believe in God and Jesus. 

However, I do not believe in the false man-made, man-focused religions that have usurped so much power in the name of God. 

I worship God in my own way, but I do not seek Him in church. I look for him in the mountains, in the desert, in the trees and in the beauty around me. That's where I feel my connection to Him.

Well, I'll shut up now...


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I think where you live matters too.
> 
> Where I live, and my friends, all waited to marry until their late late 20s or early 30s. Some even late 30s. Way better (imo) than marrying at 20 or even younger.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't think where you live matters. I live in a middle/upper class area in FL. Was married when I was 32 yrs old, married a man 33 yrs old. Both of us are college graduates, I have a very professional IT career, both raised in strict Catholic homes. Married for 16 years and H still managed to have 2 EAs. My childrens friends families are also in that same demographic and long term marriages. Infidelity happens everywhere!


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I agree with the thought that we should believe in god, it can give us a hope when we are depressed, when we feel alone, when ever we are in trouble. Faith in god gives us strength to our selves and be disciplined in our life.

Dont look at god for reserving a seat at heaven, to give us happiness, to give us money,

As per Hinduism god not sits at temples or church god is present in ourselves. "Agam bramasmi" means myself and god are the same.
We should not do anything against god means, we should not do anything against our consciousness.

So find the god present in yourself first. belive in that,


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I also think the true numbers are higher than many think. Of course I am jaded, but I personally know of only two men who haven't cheated on their wives - my father and my husbands father. At least, if they did cheat, no one knows they did. Every single other male that I know who has been married or in a serious relationship has cheated. Funnily enough, I do not know any women who have cheated. But women are swiftly catching up to men, if they haven't already.


You say "If they did cheat, no one knows..". 
I tend to ask does it not take two hands to clap. It takes one man and one woman to cheat? If that many number of men cheated, who did they cheat with?

If one man cheated with many women, then, there should be logically more women cheaters.

If one man cheated with one woman, then there should be equal number of women cheaters.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I think the issue before us is that the media (internet included) reporting more number of cases of infidelities.



Hope1964 said:


> I really think marriage is an unnatural state for humans. If it wasn't it wouldn't be so hard to have a good marriage. I think being married has great benefits for both parties, but they have got to be willing to work at it, and work at it really hard, all their lives. And most people aren't - they take the easy way out.


I honestly believe that there are less number of marriages that have affairs.

The basic ingredient that feuls infidelity is opportunity, willingness, and lack of morals.

It is prevalent in all societies, cultures, beliefs....


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

HelpHerHeal said:


> There is a grave information gap in today's society. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot ignore that the mainstream religions are a great foundation for an economical solution of life and morals. Problem occurs where people will now simply say "I don't believe in God" and in a shot throw out all the teachings along with it, however right they may be. Now we are simply left with miniscule preventative measures making it easier to carry out sinful deeds.


Right. How does that explain that at any given moment there is at least one story of some cheating priest or pastor on the front page of this forum?

The marriage used to be a stronger institution because it was hard to get by in life without spouse and 9 children. Now people can survive alone just fine.

For my part, if our R doesn't work out, am gonna give up on the whole marriage business. Too risky, not going to play this lottery twice.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

thrway214 said:


> This is ludicrous. I am an atheist dealing with the aftermath of my Catholic wife's A. I have never cheated on her and firmly believe in marriage being the most precious promise I have ever made to anyone. My wife, on the other hand, now says she will turn back to god and be better.


You, me and Numb-badger should form a club!


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