# Reboot the Love Life - Success Stories



## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

I have a dry marriage and I see there are lots of others on these blogs who suffer the same. I don't want to leave my wonderful partner, but I really cannot live another 20 years without a love life. So I need tips - more than ideas, though. I would like people to post success stories here. Give me hope. Give me evidence. Talk about results and how they really happen. Talk about misteps, goals, and accomplishments. 

So here is my story, to get us started. I've been married 18 years. The first 5 were fantastic on the intimacy scene. then a series of stressful things happened - a very bad job for me, a promotion for my husband that made his job very busy, a death, a fight with my mother-in-law that caused a bad riff between us. it is not surprising that a bit of distance developed, but then we really never recovered. (my mother and law and I did recover after about 3 yrs - it is all okay now)

Fast forward, 10 years after all that happened. How did we get here? I think he has become convinced that it is my fault - but mostly I find that his timing stinks. I find he never has time. So, (1) I decided I can't take this lack of love life. (2) I have read every blog I can find (we tried counselling and it failed miserably. Neither he nor the counsellor wanted to talk about sex and he thought the whole thing was a huge waste of time). (3) I have been talking it up like fury. "Remember when..." "I sure do miss...." etc. It took quite a while for this to make an impression - I think he was quite skeptical that I was serious. 

okay, so that prepared us. Now is just the shaky step to actual action. bodies are not what they used to be, so I bought some lube. (Boy was that embarassing, but actually, they were really, really nice at the sex store). I insisted on meeting him on a business trip (good to be away). Unfortunately he insisted on going out for dinner, even though I had said quite a number of times that I thought it would be good to order dinner in - treat ourselves (wink, wink, nudge-nudge). When we got to the room, finally, at 8:30, he wanted to read the paper. Okay. whatever (really, some people are so dense!). Finally I presented the lube, which surprised him quite a bit! And we sort of went at it. It was awful. Ironically, a couple in the next door room had a very successful romp just at the moment things should have been good for us. You know, ooo-ooo-aah-aaa, thump, thump, groan, oh-oh-aaaayyyh. Hilarious.

So, that is my success story. He got off. I did not. But never mind. We broke a barrier. he now wants to do it again. If we do, that will be the 5th time in 10 years, and 2nd time this year. What next? I really need to improve his technique. Please share your success stories - evidence. not suggestions. How have you restarted your love life? what approaches do you take? where do you look to for advice? how is it different? what do you compromise on? what do you take on as your part in the whole sorry business?

love to hear from you 

18 yrs and hoping for 36


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Wow not many sucesses posted .

I think your doing everything great!

be patient, maybe after he has got his you could say holy cow it was so great seeing your passion but I need a little more stimulation and then start masterbating and ask if he could help you get there. if he balks say someting like if I can't ask my husband to rub me the way i like then who can I ask? or maybe you could introduce a toy.you could say that your sensitivity has changed and you need a little extra. 


just a thought


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Tell him what you want. He can't read your mind - especially with how long your dry spell has lasted. 

Make sure you and he are spending time together doing other stuff too!

My wife and I just came out of our drought 9 months ago and it lasted over 5 yrs. That part of the saga is now over and I swear it's better now than when we were dating or first married. 

Just keep trying. It will be awkward at first but keep trying. But tell him how you want to be pleasured and ask how he wants it too. There is a lot more than just the intercourse part. 

Good luck and God Bless!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

thanks powerbane. I need to hear it can end and it can get better. You both hit the nail on the head - it sure is awkward after so long not doing it. Not sure how we got into that fix - maybe we are both too nice, waiting for the other. it is going to be hard to talk about what is pleasurable - but it does seem like that is the only way forward. taking the angle that things are different now might help. thanks - yeah, and I hope there are few success stories, chillymorn! made me nervous when no one replied.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

This is probably not a reply from the area that you were hoping, but many middle aged guys who have been out of the action for a while are simply not physically or emotionally charged for it.

Remember that success builds from success. Maybe the first area is where he can work to build up a big dose of testosterone. Get active. Build the large muscle groups. With feeling better about himself, he'll naturally turn the attention to you.

About ten years ago, I ripped my collar bone from its attachment to my shoulder doing military presses. The doctor banned me from working out until the surgery and healing were over (about three months). I felt terrible. From there, I quit everything, incuding stationary bike and treadmill.

I took the testosterone building approach and then approached my love life like a twenty year old. The confidence felt like it literally oozed from the pores. Now, that brief time is a very scary, dark period.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

I think you are right, Halien. I hadn't thought of it quite that way. I kind of don't get that, but if you say so. Sounds like things get rusty! We have never talked about it but I would imagine he masturbates - wouldn't that be enough? What do you mean emotionally not up for it? Sigh. this is one of the myths of sex I think - that men are always ready anytime. Maybe this is partly why I am so stumped by the lack of sex life. If I give the signals and nothing happens then why? that's not the way the script is supposed to go - or at least not ALL the time. 

I started buying a men's mag a few months ago - it has great ab work outs. I've been leaving them around the house and pointing out all the great low-cal recipes. course I don't mind all the cheesy pictures either (and it makes him a bit jealous which is funny) - but two weeks ago he was inspired to go back to the gym, which he always used to love doing. Makes me happy...

On third thought, maybe I am rusty too. Maybe that's why, when he makes a pass at me and I feel like the timing is just so awful its because he's out of practice and so am I. It's just too startling. Holly hello. It's like being virgins again.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I think changing anything in marriage, especially sex takes a heroic effort on the part of both people. Its very hard when the motivational timing is off between partners, there is past and current hurt, and stubbornness. 

also, get a reusable(really hundreds or thousands of times) lelo vibrating c*ck ring (BO and TOR) (they are <40$ online). Even when timing is awkward and we are rusty its a lot easier for my W to get into it and finish. Also, the vibration is distracting, so he can last longer if thats an issue. Its really probably the best $40 we've ever spent. Usually after a dry spell, I'm too quick and excited and its hard for her to get into it. 

You mentioned technique, and I wanted to send you this. Its a little not safe for work, but a cartoon. Anyways, for him to please you if he is on top, a motion more like that (along with a vibrating ring) is usually the key.
Why Woman on Top Can be More Orgasmic for Her

Looking internally and changing yourself is one of the hardest things a person can do. Having the energy to push a LTR out of a rut that you both have dug takes a brand new mindset.

Best of luck and cheers for taking the effort to fix something like this.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

You people are so sweet here. there are all these really specific questions on the blog like 'do you swallow' etc. You folks are just telling me to take it easy - acknowledging people do get stuck. 

so, we had another date - and I kept in mind the idea of him taking some emotional time. the date did not go so well - ended up getting filled with work needs and an adult child had a crisis and needed some help... etc - the usual, in fact. but I talked a little about what it would take to have a life like we used to and really tried to listen instead of being frustrated or impatient. 

what I took away is that work is really, really, exhausting right now. and he needs time - a holiday away, might really be necessary. we need to do some life balancing, but meanwhile, bills need to be paid, of course, so it is not an option to just walk away from this. 

the toy - I'm not sure he would go for it, and I'm not sure that is the problem, but then I've never asked. From what you guys are suggesting, I'm thinking I need to learn a bit more about this. We are not totally out of touch, but maybe our habits of not talking about this make me unaware of some things that are going on.

it takes a lot of work to really think about how I might be stuck - how I might keep trying to bash the problem on the head with the same old frustrations. so everytime I say "not that" I instantly correct myself. yes that. look at it. 

onwards!


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

those anatomy cartoons are hilarious (and actually informative) - but sadly, we have not got that far in a long time. thanks though...

on 2nd thought - following my line just posted of everytime I think `not that" I make myself think again - okay, so why don't we get that far? we have a routine. act 1, act 2, act 3 etc. act 1, a bit of kissing - getting into bed or a place to make out. act 2, getting undressed, act 3, etc. we never make it as far as a 2nd position and for some reason, me on top is a 2nd position. In fact, since I like doing oral, we sometimes never get beyond his pleasure - he is very apologetic, but he just gets tired and sleepy. (keeping in mind that we have had sex 3 times in two years so this is a bit thin on opportunity to try variations). Boy this sounds boring as hell. how would you married guys feel if your wife suddenly skipped all the foreplay and just went for the main dish, her first? I'm guessing that is not going to work...

and really, I do not think the problem is that he is not attracted to me. he is very loving, all the time.

and I'm feeling a bit weird about talking about myself so much!


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

one more post and then I will be quiet - the link, Anx, to the woman on top position has another set of articles that were very useful - the one about nudity really hits the mark. If I am nude, he hits on me - but at the most awkward times. so I stay clothed. I feel really self conscious because I can't "just be nude" without it being a sexual moment. So, I keep my clothes on, and dash from the bathroom or get dressed when I know he is busy. hmmm. and, the bedroom is also really, really cold for me, so I wear flannel to bed. He flings all the blankets off. hmm. maybe this gives me some practical ideas...


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Sex in marriage is very complicated. It touches on how connect we are, how we feel about ourselves and the relationship, our habits, our needs, stress, kids, love, control, guilt, hurt, ego, self esteem, shyness, etc.

Any of those issues can and do get in the way. 

It really sounds like if you get naked (or nearly) and get it started, it might work.

If you can, get your husband to talk. Just listen without doing anything more than affirming what he says for as long as he will talk. Don't argue or even suggest he is wrong or another way to think about it. Just listen.



> and I'm feeling a bit weird about talking about myself so much!


 How well do you guys communicate?



> Boy this sounds boring as hell. how would you married guys feel if your wife suddenly skipped all the foreplay and just went for the main dish, her first?


 Sex is different for guys. I would be fine with that, but its an issue if I finish and can't finish my wife.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

this is a very small little set of posts, but it has already got me thinking a lot. I am really, really impressed (in awe) with how much some guys here have done for their wives, and for their marriages. It has made me think about what I take for granted, and what I resent, and whether that is a good thing or not. It's not that I don't have reason to be frustrated - its just that maybe he does too, although maybe for different reasons. your comments have also made me curious about what I thought I knew about sex and guys - even my husband. I think you get to a certain point and you feel (or I feel) like we have done it all before - its not that its not nice, I just don't expect surprises. And so maybe he feels like he needs to perform and has sort of not been saying things... I'm not sure. 

Two weeks ago I would have said we did communicate well - except about actual sex, but now I am not so sure. You are right, Anx - the further I go into this, the more sex seems to be connected to every bone in the relationship. I knew that before, but I haven't really thought about it with fresh ears for a long time. Listening to him the other night was just a tiny step - and I am going to do some more listening. I think I need to. And by listening, I mean being prepared to have it change my life.

I am also going to try a couple things re intimacy - one being to be a bit more naked (phew, that sounds weird to me, but I am going to just see what happens) and I am also going to not turn him down if he decides to make a pass at me at a really awkward moment. It might not work long term, but it might be that he is feeling a bit more rejected, and I am too. we can work on timing later. The physical stuff I am not sure about - I think I need to find a way to explore whether he feels like his body has changed in some ways that make things different (I don't mean the obvious). My body has changed - maybe he doesn't know really how or what that means to me.

thank you, thank you, thank you for the words.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

If you are religiously inclined, I highly suggest reading sacred marriage. Its been a fresh view on my own marriage and struggles. 

I really do applaud you for working on this. Its not easy getting unstuck from something you've been in for years. Its not easy to objectively look at issues.

You could always do a few MC session if that interests you, but you guys might figure this all out on your own.

Best of luck


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

anx said:


> also, get a reusable(really hundreds or thousands of times) lelo vibrating c*ck ring (BO and TOR) (they are <40$ online). Even when timing is awkward and we are rusty its a lot easier for my W to get into it and finish. Also, the vibration is distracting, so he can last longer if thats an issue. Its really probably the best $40 we've ever spent. Usually after a dry spell, I'm too quick and excited and its hard for her to get into it.



I can never tell from the pictures of these things...Is this one of the ones that fits around just the penis, or does it try to fit around the penis, and testicles at the same time?


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

Jade, 


Sometimes it comes down to planned spontaneity. If you have the plan ... Adjust that thermostat up a couple degrees so you can be comfortable above the sheets without having to don the flannel fortress an hour/half-hour before you think you might get there. 

How does your husband respond to you if you simply approach him on the couch, run your fingers through his hair, and say "I would like for you to hold me now?" or the even better (sometimes) "I would really like some time to hold you." Sometimes its small steps to get people there, and that is all it is, but it can go places too. Sometimes the issue is simply getting people in the right state of mind, or unexpressed/unmet needs for affection. I can only speak for myself here, but when this need for myself wasn't met for a long period of time, I felt truly disinclined to want to have sex, because I knew it wouldn't help, and I would feel even worse afterward. Eventually that got to the point where after several attempts to resolve it, I actually felt like leaving, and was prepared to leave. The lack of affection, plus still having the other demands made me feel truly unloved, and rejected daily. It felt that hopeless. It took both of us changing a lot of habits to get this to be happy again. 

All of this is interconnected, from timing, appreciation, desire, priming the pump (everything from physical foreplay to emotional foreplay), expectations, dealing with bad experiences, stress...etc It sounds like you both have some truly bitter things in the past, and maybe some stinging resents that are causing avoidance behavior ... I've had, and been guilty of a dose of this myself. These problems weren't there earlier because we were both making an effort to do the things that did fill both of our wells, even if it wasn't conscious. Over time bad habits crept in, and so did resents. Let that go long enough, and those feelings can get really ugly. 

The good thing about habits is they can be changed in a relatively short time _with effort, but its a mutual thing._ You can change some things purely on your own, but the biggest thing I've experienced that helps is a mutual change to talk about what you each need here, and in the other areas of your life together, and ask for it. Emotional & physical intimacy are about as connected as you can get in my experience. For me I wasn't meeting her need for emotional intimacy, and she wasn't meeting mine for affection. She still wanted sex every day, because her drive is that high, but she started to feel like I was closed to her, and she made less effort during, and I wasn't enjoying it because of it. I almost felt like a breathing machine for my penis at times. Eventually I started to withdrawal from that, and that just made it worse. Until we both made a choice to really be honest with each other at that level about everything, nothing was going to resolve in the sex area. 

I have a bit of the opposite problem at the moment, but some of the same issues ... The largest being one of timing. She is at that point of drive where she wants sex all of the time. If my well for attention is full, I don't mind this as an emotional matter anymore, and may be a bit of unintended consequences for initiating 30 days in a row of sex, which matched her drive nicely, but didn't match my own completely. It was an interesting experience, but its had a few unintended consequences, and its caused some new insights into problems form that side of it. 

Its a real effort sometimes to arrange a schedule to do it. ha The going to bed, and expecting this to work out, and be fun when either is dead tired thing doesn't work. Not if you want good sex. The lights need to be dimmed sooner, and a plan enacted to drift off to the bedroom sooner. What worked for us was ...as soon as we get the kids in bed, to drift off to take a shower or bath together, have sex, and then we have a couple hours at night to use for our own devices while the kids are asleep (for me studying, for her catching up on "her time"). Sometimes we even end up going back to bed again, and having sex again. Its not 7 days a week as she would like, but we found a compromise that as long as we make an effort to do it earlier, one of us vocalizes it pretty darn directly, and she takes some time to tend to the attention well for me, and I make the effort to tend to the intimacy well for her -- it seems to work. 

We haven't had a month like December that was pure agony for both of us since. I'm hopeful this will be a lasting change both emotionally, and sexually. 

I have some non-PG suggestions tooi, but the core is somewhere else...


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

@ anooniemouse,

good to hear the 30 day thing went well. I'm still hoping to get to that one of these days.

It can fit around both, but I haven't really tried. I think It would be pretty snugIts comfortable just around the penis.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Four years ago or so we went from having a great sex life to my W slowly losing her desire for me as I lost my edge, became passive, stopped lifting and became skinny - she hates skinny. So we dropped down to maintenance sex - once every 5 days. That was the least I would tolerate, and required her to make an effort as she had no desire. It was a painful compromise for both of us. Actually her lack of desire was far more painful than the actual frequency. 

After more than a year of that, I rediscovered my edge cranked up the weight lifting and her desire returned. 




Jadegreen said:


> I have a dry marriage and I see there are lots of others on these blogs who suffer the same. I don't want to leave my wonderful partner, but I really cannot live another 20 years without a love life. So I need tips - more than ideas, though. I would like people to post success stories here. Give me hope. Give me evidence. Talk about results and how they really happen. Talk about misteps, goals, and accomplishments.
> 
> So here is my story, to get us started. I've been married 18 years. The first 5 were fantastic on the intimacy scene. then a series of stressful things happened - a very bad job for me, a promotion for my husband that made his job very busy, a death, a fight with my mother-in-law that caused a bad riff between us. it is not surprising that a bit of distance developed, but then we really never recovered. (my mother and law and I did recover after about 3 yrs - it is all okay now)
> 
> ...


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

Your honesty about this process of reengaging each other, emotionally and sexually shows your true desire for intimacy with your husband. From what I have read from your posts, I know that you have been making these changes and pursuing each suggestion with openness. Do not give up! 

Outside of having sex together, try to convince him that you need to find something to do together. Get the doing something together part of your relationship working well for you. 

Tips: Build him up. Promotion at work doesn't always mean that it is fulfilling and not a real drag. If you can build up his ego, he may just want to initiate the foreplay and sex. When my wife talks me up and lets me talk about my boring business to her it really turns things around for me. 

I have a success story for you. 
All in the same year, I have lost my job and struggled to start my own business. The stresses of both have made my libido slow down in my marriage. 

After getting chewed out by my business mentor, an expert in my business field, I felt so small and hopeless that I fumbled my whole way through our intimacy that night. Because, I approached sex with her like a robot, mechanical all the way, I succeeding in turning my wife completely off from wanting to go any further with me. I had to explain to her that I just could not have sex with her because I felt so sorry for myself and I was just trying my hardest to fulfill her needs.

All it took was her saying, "I believe in you", "You are a great provider", and "I respect you". That was all it took. We had the 4th of July fireworks under the sheets. Her encouragement brings out the thing she desires most from me, assertive love attention as described in my article:  Intimate Marriage.

Seriously, the business I am starting has taken me to the brink of depression. 7 months starting it out and trying to get it off the ground without a penny to show for it yet. It has made me lose my desire to get in shape and sometimes it has made me not want intimacy with my wife, because I felt worthless, a failure. My wife's encouragement turns it all around. I write more about the effect in my article:  How to Save a Marriage

Since it has been a long time since you have been sexually active, and in your posts you honestly state that you are feeling inadequacies, I assume your husband might feel the same inadequacies. Start to tell your husband the things that he can do to you to get you going. My wife and I have been sexually strong for the seven years of our marriage, but I still need her to coach me on what to do sometimes. I just run with it. I will not turn down her sexual direction.

Coach him quietly at first. Use your hand to direct him on what he should do, each step of the way until a rhythm gets going. If it works you may be able to whisper to him what you want. (my wife wants to add Try the same thing for him. Ask him how he is doing and what he is wanting and fantasizing about, and get excited about fulfilling that for him. He will all that much more connected to you knowing that you care about his needs. We all just want to love and be loved.

I hope the best for you and your husband.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

In your initial post you mentioned a dinner date and having sex with your husband, but not having the Big O. In that Story you mentioned the couple in the next room getting it on and how that uhm, caught you and your husbands attention. 

Do you have any younger friends that are not going through a dry patch, sexually?

Sure, I know this idea comes from a movie, but, perhaps it may help. Did you ever see "Don Juan Demarco" with Marlon Brando, Johnny Depp and Faye Dunaway? Silly movie but it had some interesting sexual wisdom to impart. I still to this day think that picking a feature on my wife's body like her fingers (as in the scene in the movie) and paying attention to it as I would pay attention to a more erotic part of her body is BRILLIANT and great foreplay.

Anyways, my main point is the romance tales from Don Juan incite Marlon Brando's character to spice up his sexual relationship with his wife, played by Fay Dunaway. 

Do you have any lovey dovey friends or family that could inspire the sex in your relationship?

Just a suggestion. This post offers a fictional sex success story, but one with a moral.

My wife and I hope the best for you and your marriage.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

I've been feeling a bit discouraged so have not posted, and want to catch up here. Your replies are SO great. You really have answered honestly, and it makes me feel not alone. It has also made me think quite a bit (2nd post, below)

I need to go back to the "sex was awful" comment. I like your suggestion, rough patch about using a scene or something to set up a conversation or try something, without it being porn, which would not work at all. I am going to look up these movies, or some others. I need to find a way to open the door of his prudishness. he is really very conservative.Somehow, in whatever, way, we have to find a way to talk about these things. 

A long time ago, we did get to a place where what he was doing wasn't working and he just told me to tell him. I did for a while, but it got so mechanical I eventually withdrew. I can see now that it was not a good thing to do. I just did not know what else to do at that time. 

The trouble is that he is not a sensitive toucher. As an example, he doesn't "get" shoulder massages. If I ask for a massage, he willingly gives me some pretty hard pinches on the shoulder for about 5 minutes. I try not to say it is hurting, and I try to give him instructions (a little more here, a little lighter) but eventually I just have to say "that's enough". I try to do that graciously, but I would have to say he is almost the worst shoulder massager I have ever encountered. However, he loses all interest in about 5 minutes so it is not a disaster, and I do get massages elsewhere (I love massages). I have tried lots and lots of approaches to getting better massages, like by giving him long ones, even by buying him a massage so he could see how a professional does it, as well as lots of descriptions, talking to him while he is doing it, etc. 

Sex is the same. He is just the type of person who is not able to translate what something feels like to someone else. When we were first dating this was not a problem as basically any contact was fantastic. As time wears on though, that is not enough. But when I said that the sex was awful, it actually hurt. First we had intercourse, and then he was giving me oral. I lost my desire in the moment in trying to avoid being hurt. I did not tell him that because I did not want to be discouraging. He knew it was not the best for me and he was a bit disappointed. 

There was a time, many years ago, when we were being pretty open about sex and he got to the point of just saying "tell me what to do". I found, though, that I was writing a recipe book. "now touch here, now touch there, now this, now that" We did that for a while, but eventually I lost interest as he never was able to move on from the instruction part. That was about the time our love life died. Part of the magic of it, for me, is the chemistry of doing it with someone else. 

However, I take the point Anx was making in suggesting the c'ring. I don’t know if the ring itself would help because I suspect it would be really hard to get him to consider it. I will try, though, at some opportune moment, but I don’t want him to get the message that he is inadequate, because he is not. The important part about Anx's suggestion for me is about me taking charge of my own pleasure, and I have been thinking about this a lot. It is not that my husband is against me having pleasure - he would love to think he is giving that pleasure to me. The technique is just not there, and I am guilty of not telling him what is wrong because I want to protect his ego and because I don’t want to scare him away from the little sex we do have. Complicating things is that he has a very traditional idea about what is okay and what is immoral, so the range of options for solutions is a bit limited. I would be fine, for example, with helping myself while he watched or petted me or kissed me, but he thinks this is pretty weird and kinky. He doesn't even like to use the "m" word. I asked him once if he masturbated and he was pretty horrified. I’m not sure if he was horrified that I raised the topic or whether I was suggesting he masturbated, or whether I breached some rule about privacy or rules about what women talk about. I was prepared to talk to him about my needs and my actions, but that kind of killed the conversation. Sigh.


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

Jadegreen said:


> I've been feeling a bit discouraged so have not posted, and want to catch up here. Your replies are SO great. You really have answered honestly, and it makes me feel not alone.
> 
> A long time ago, we did get to a place where what he was doing wasn't working and he just told me to tell him. I did for a while, but it got so mechanical I eventually withdrew. I can see now that it was not a good thing to do. I just did not know what else to do at that time.
> 
> ...


Its very hard not to feel discouraged when things aren't going right sexually. Its a sensitive area tied heavily to emotions, anxieties, and ego. Nothing can knock the wind out of a lovers sails as effectively as seeing their partners body language, and facial expression that reads "I'm not that into this, and I would really like this to be over, or do something else." 

Its always good to remember their ego is just as capable of being bruised as yours, and he has a ton of fears there whether he is open to expressing them or not. 

*Emotions trump logic in this area. One bad experience can undo the effect of several positive ones for the sexual ego, and emotions tied to sex.* 

Due to chronic pain, and allodynia (painful response to things that shouldn't hurt) I'm very sensitive to being touched with a lot of pressure on certain days, and its not entirely predictable, nor controllable (even with some pretty hefty pain medicines). Its like poking on a sunburn if its something that sets it off, with every touch after that in that spot hurting worse, and spreading to a wider area the more times its poked on. I hate it, and I hate even more the dilemma it puts K in, and my own dilemma there at times. Its a very lousy problem as my primary love language is touch. 

From my side: If I don't speak to it, K will end up hurting me, and it may get to a point (quite quickly) where I can't stand to be touched. If I do speak to it, she can become completely fearful of touching me, withdrawal, and unless I'm very careful about steering her to something else -- both in how I do it, what I say, and how I say it -- it will kill any chance for other types of touch I can still enjoy. From her side: She feels rejected when she touches me, and it hurts. Even if logically she understands its just that area that hurts, and she could touch me anywhere else without pain. She is fearful that I will find her inadequate at meeting my needs, and sometimes she feels like she can't win. She is reluctant to touch me both for fear of hurting me, and because X thing I enjoy 10 days out of 11 wasn't enjoyable on day 11 ...its somehow something she shouldn't do. She is wired to the incredibly sensitive side, and in that area in particular. (Probably more than you want to know about our sex life, but I'm sharing it to illustrate just how fine of a line the ego & fear issues can be there. Mentally she understands it, but *emotionally* the sting can still get triggered.) 

This generally wont work for unpredictable problems like allodynia, but sometimes helps to overcome the knowledge barrier: Instead of just trying to verbally direct him, make him a manual. Its a very male solution, and it might be easier for you to get things across that way for awhile. 

As I see it, five things that are within your control that you can do without him fully on board: Overcoming knowledge (at least as far as what you like), lack of communication (at least in one direction), "priming the pump", overcoming the resents of the past by fostering his knowledge that he is loved, and that he is wanted so that he *wants* to reciprocate. To that end:

1) Spend some time in affection on him every day that is just that; try to get it into a daily routine, and know its sometims a slow process that takes weeks to see the results. In addition, speak to his love language (whatever it is, you know him -- what makes him feel loved?) Its nice if he reciprocates, but even if he doesn't immediately it still has an effect. Think of it like softening butter. It takes time, but its much easier to spread once its warmed up. It may take a considerable effort of softening if those resents are deep, but most people do respond eventually to it. It may even feel forced to you, but do your best to relax, and enjoy it. Remind yourself, and him if you need to that this is "some time to just be, and enjoy each other". Love is a choice, as are acts of service, affection, and kindness. The real test is demonstrating love when someone is behaving unlovable. (As our kids remind us of, and test this often! >sigh<) 

2) Use the positive feelings generated to spend some time thinking about how you like to be touched. Think about it in explicit detail, especially parts that need to be dealt with gently, or a certain manner of touch, and/or technique you know works better for you. 

3) Make him a manual of sorts. Take those thoughts to paper, and its even better if you can go from experiences in the past that you really enjoyed "I really enjoyed when you touched me .... .... ... and were ..." This can get over the hump on things like oral sex. So can the suggestion of certain conditioners if he has facial hair, and the reminder "Your shaved face/whatever else feels much better than stubble" there... Sadly, men can be pretty bloody clueless at times. I know you had an issue with the recipe book before, but when you are saying things like "I'm trying to protect myself from getting physically hurt during oral sex" ...there is still a need. Tell him you would love to spend a couple hours just exploring what feels good too, and trying new things. 

4) Write him out some of your fantasies, and the occasional love note. Even if you just tuck it in an email. Goes to desire, and the feeling of being wanted. Doesn't have to be a book. Even if its just as simple as "I've been thinking about X with you all day. I'm really hot for you right now." Or a heart sticker tacked to his steering wheel that says "I love you." Many men will tell you they don't care for this type of thing, but pretty much we do. 

5) Plan something out where you take control. Even if its something as simple as pinning him to the wall when he walks in the door, or gets out of the shower -- kiss him intently, oral sex...etc Even better tell him to keep his hands on the wall/bed rail (what you have at hand), kiss & love on him, see to his pleasure, and don't seek an immediate return on that. Let him know you enjoyed it. (A physical reminder, along with the mental reminder of the notes, and some advice in friendly form in the 'manual', but don't call it a manual! ... Gets the mind going to that area.)

6) Make time for it, and make it right for it. NO donning the flannel fortress, adjust the temperature, get dolled up for him if you can, relaxed from a shower or bath, get the kids occupied with something else if you have them...etc 

...and 7) If he doesn't take to subtle, actions of love, kindness, and affection -- tell him outright what you want, when you want it. Ultimately, we are the only one responsible for getting our needs met, and sometimes we do have to drag our partner along for the ride to make it happen. Even the reluctant appreciate knowing what someone wants, rather than having to divine it. 

8) Don't lose hope if he is resistant, balks at certain things, or even gets embarrassed by something like a note or the presentation of a toy. "I thought this would be really fun to try" is much more effective than "I need more stimulation here" ... 

9) Ego/Praise/Gentle direction. Mind the ego. If something feels good, let him know during, and after. Whether its affection, actions he took outside of the bedroom, or things inside of it -- stroking here always feels good, and helps him build a knowledge of things that work. If something isn't feeling good at the moment, consider redirecting him to another activity you would/might enjoy, or a different way of doing it. Its the difference between "Stop, too hard" or "That doesn't feel good" and "mmm I like it a little more gentle there" or "Would you XX on my ..." You might still have to do the former sometimes, but its far less likely to bruise an ego getting redirected, or create a memory that "X was a bad experience last time, I shouldn't do X at all" when X is something you want, but need or prefer it done a little differently. 

------------------------

We are praying for both of you. Keep heart. This is like changing an entire environment, rather than moving a single piece of furniture. Small things make a difference, as do cumulative actions It registers somewhere that you are trying, and that you are willing to fight for both of you as a couple.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

I think that you have a lot of people that care about you, your husband and your marriage. Sometimes the anonymity of the internet can really bring out true, honest answers to life's woes. In all reality, I hate to add to the comments that this may not end in a quick fix.

Putting a combination of the advice that you acknowledge will work for you and your husband, plus fully considering Anooniemouse's advice may be more of a process than anyone can imagine. I do hope that you get more advice, especially from Anoonimouse. I want to let you know that my wife and I will be checking your thread regularly for updates and to lend any advice that may be pertinent.

I want to let you know that in intimacy, my wife has to coach me almost every time. At first I took severe offense to her interruptions of the groove, I thought that I had. It took a little time for me to accept the dynamic of our love life. Now I ask her for help to better understand how she can best be loved in bed. 

It may take a long time to get him to accept your help, do not give up. Do not quit asking for help and my wife and I will not quit helping. Keep on reading Anoonimouse's post.

Ultimately, you may have to be the one that does the most initial changes, carries the load of the burden to ease these tender changes that need to be done to bring harmony and cohesion to you and your husband's love life.

Since my wife had to coach me to bring harmony into our love life, I have asked her to write a post at your request. Please include in one of your up and coming posts if you want her advice written for you using and I will set up an account for her to use. Her time is limited since we just had our fourth baby, but she wants to help if you want her to share with you love making coaching tips that she has learned to do, to make it easier for me to accept her coaching.

We are praying for you and your marriage.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

I realized that I may have offered some tough, non assuring 'opinion' when I stated in my last post, "Ultimately, you may have to be the one that does the most initial changes, carries the load of the burden to ease these tender changes that need to be done to bring harmony and cohesion to you and your husband's love life."

What I should have said is that I practice, believe in and write about something I call 'Mutually Honor Based Love' as it applies to marriage restoration. It is a philosophy of a healthy marriage that has basic tips for focusing on and deferring to the needs of the other spouse. It calls for at least one of the marriage partners to resolve to personally make the changes in the relationship. Resolve to do whatever it takes to honor the other spouse, make them feel loved and to fulfill their needs. The focus on the other spouse opens them up to open communication and then, in time, reciprocate. The reciprocation is the 'Mutually' part of it.

It is 'like' honoring your mate by listening and not talking over them, until they have said everything they need to say. Until their need to be heard, understood, related to and cared for is complete, then the listened to spouse is more likely, apt or ready to return the honor gesture that you gave them, in kind.

In this case, it may just mean that in order to do something like this to help ease your husband into even being able to open up to being able to compromise and do the things that you need him to do to satisfy your needs. I am talking about such needs as to soften and widen his approach to intimacy, to help him to open up sexually, to at a moments notice be able to totally surrender the way he makes love to you, (through your coaching), etc.

I do not think that your husband needs to be won over like a totally hurt and "desperate to end the marriage" kind of husband that some wives find them selves married to. I offer the advice because if you are the one seeking to make your sex life come back to life in your relationship, it may take that level of dedication on your part to see the process through. It may take a lot longer than you may want for the process, to help your husband to open up to you sexually. But, if he has hit a road block and you have as well, then drastic measures may need to be taken to help him to reciprocate by making him feel like the best husband ever. It may just become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I learned a long time ago that I cannot change my wife to be what I want her to be (about 7 years of marriage ago), but I can be the best loving, caring, honoring and proactive husband I can be to meet her where she is at, and to through totally honoring her as the woman I married, bring us closer together. This is true even when everything around us is falling apart. In fact we have had to rely on this with each other the past 9 month since I found out I was getting laid off two days after we found out that we were going to have another baby.

It has been a really tough road. We have had to give up our dream (for now) of living in the Mountains of North Carolina and move back to Florida and we now live in her parents house, with them and our kids, while I work to start up a business. I am not comparing our troubles to yours, just that this method has shaped our marriage and we often reciprocate (in may different ways) to each other.

Either way, I wanted to clarify what I meant so as not to make you think that I think it is your fault and you have to 'carry the burden.'

I hope this helps.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

I often do something and then think about it later, and then apologize. 

So, I was thinking about my last post from last night and realized that it might have come across a bit preachy. True, what I was talking about is something that I feel works, because it works in my marriage. Also, I notice the effects that "Honor Based Love" has when I see other couples engage in that type of behavior together.

But, back to my point. I am sorry if I came across as being preachy. I am apologizing about my approach if it offended you. That was not my intention.

I know that every marriage and every individual is different and has different circumstances, and you may not have need of the advice I gave. Ultimately, I hope that you receive the advice that will bring lasting success for you and your husband, whether it includes last nights advice or not.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Anooniemouse, your post makes me cry. It is so amazing to have someone take the time to speak to me (and your partner right behind or beside you, I think). You make many, very good points, and I am going to save and re-read that. I have some answers below, and maybe quesitons.

RoughPatch - no, I was not offended. I was a bit overwhelmed when I last posted (just life etc.) and feeling a bit gloomy about other things. Basically, what you are saying, RoughPatch, is the conclusion I have been coming to. For years (many years) I have been what I would call sullen. Not on the outside - I am known as a cheerful sunny person. But I had resentments and I blamed him. Finally I got to the point where I was thinking of the future and thought - I love him, but I cannot live like this until I die. So then what? I had tried everything. 

Sometimes that is when an epiphany comes. I am not a church goer, but I do have a practice of turning things over to a higher power (I have attended 12 step). So I do what I call entering a prayerful state, - of being humble. I am just very recently coming to what you are talking about, the idea of doing a greater service for my marriage, to him, for him, and for us, including me. It is a lot of giving. I am not used to this. I had a kind of problematic childhood and it ended up being very competitive and not a very generous situation. So that is how I am with intimacy - not very trusting and kind of angry (I do apologize to my husband - we talk about this). So giving without expectation is a new step for me, being led by the most basic of desires, but probably very good for my soul (my real soul - the big spiritual one). I have yet to see results in the way you talk about, but I do have a very strong hunch that the way forward is on this road. 

When I am not down, I see a bit of hope. I have been giving more (pretty small) partly in recognition that if his love language is service, he might have a bigger smile if I did some things that he considers his burden. So I have offered, and I have done some extra things. Just small, but big too. I took his mother out - big deal for me, as she is pretty demanding of him, and I feel he spends more time with her than me. Maybe he does, but fighting about it does not make it better -he has not changed in 5-7 years of difference over this. 

My grudge is not with her - it is lonliness for him. So I offered to take her out on his day, so we all went somewhere together. This is not the direct road to action in bed, but he was really, really appreciative. I think the bigger smile on his face, the more relaxed and good he feels. 

I also get annoyed over the way he does some chores (sigh, we all get irritated with habits of our spouses, right?) but I just decided to let it go. I have been encouraging him (he mows my flowers down and I put a lot of work into those flowers). He has been so happy with my encouragement. I also told him, though, that this is not my love language. I was a bit more subtle - I said, "you know, I am happy that you are happy about the lawn, but it doesn't actually mean a lot to me". He was quite surprised. I have told him that before, but in an angry way - dammit! I want to spend time with you. He did not get the words - only the anger. 

So I think I do have to open my heart and maybe his will open and makes this other thing easier. oh, but it is hard! I have a really lovely pamphlet on forgiveness - real forgiveness. Maybe I will read it again.

I am going to make a different post in reply to Anooniemouse


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Anooniemouse wrote: “If I don't speak to it, K will end up hurting me, and it may get to a point (quite quickly) where I can't stand to be touched. If I do speak to it, she can become completely fearful of touching me, withdrawal, and unless I'm very careful about steering her to something else -- both in how I do it, what I say, and how I say it -- it will kill any chance for other types of touch I can still enjoy. From her side: She feels rejected when she touches me, and it hurts. Even if logically she understands its just that area that hurts, and she could touch me anywhere else without pain. She is fearful that I will find her inadequate at meeting my needs, and sometimes she feels like she can't win.”

**
First, a word of sympathy. That sounds very frustrating for you as well as her. I don't know what that syndrome is but how difficult! on the other hand, although it was not an issue of pain, one of the lovliest boyfriends I had could not orgasm during intercourse (he passed away a while ago so I think this is okay to say). When I discovered this he was very embarassed. It meant he was a great lover in terms of service to the girl, but he felt inadequate that being with a woman did not for some reason trigger release for him. I encouraged him, very gently, to let me be with him when he masturbated. At first I closed my eyes but just sat next to him. Later we practiced with me touching him right after he ejaculated, and then with putting a hand on him when he was over the top and coming. Finally, later, a bit of oral. It was his first time with a woman and it was very, very special. I don't think he was gay - I don't know what the issue was as he had some health issues. But I think it was nervousness that had gotten stuck somehow. 

But the problem is communication and ego. With my husband I do not want to be hurtful to him - it would make it worse, and I truly do not want him to feel rejected. It is us - together - our problem. I am so nervous of hurting his feelings, especially because it has been a sensitive subject for so long. I am also so, so frustrated, which makes me impatient. This blogging is actually helping me be patient, because every time you guys (and gal?) remind me of your own partnerships and issues it is like his voice for me, 

You wrote about a manual – that is funny, but is is partly funny because at one time he suggested this. Being a girl, or maybe just being who I am, I can’t imagine that such a thing would be very sexy. It feels embarrassing and too direct. But – one of the things that is happening here as I write a little bit more and answer questions, is that I am realizing I might be very traditional. I don’t like to initiate (hmm... – what I read in these blogs and elsewhere is that guys like that perhaps in balance - not necessarily to be aggresive, but also not to be too passive). I seem to want him to give me the pleasure (thanks Anx for that pointer), and I think my idea of what a “pass” or gesture of desire is might be a bit too subtle – both for him to read from me, and in return, his attempts are too vigorous for me. So rather than just waiting and asking him, and most of all, expecting he is going to do it or that is the solution, I need to tell him, or try some of what you are talking about. After all, guys do this all the time, or at least we expect them to, right? Gives me a lot of sympathy for guys - you must worry about rejection a lot, while the girls worry about not being asked. Initiating is pretty uncomfortable for me, but I think it might work, and planning a seduction (even perhaps just catching him in the bathroom) is kind of a more fun aspect of this problem solving! 

Peopel have been referring to the love languages book, which I discovered about 3 months ago. We haven’t finished reading it, but I suspect his love languages are affirmation and service, and mine is quality time. (that is not what he thinks which is kind of surprising). I am also very physical, rather than verbal. I don’t talk a lot when it matters (although I talk when it does not!). So it might also be hard for me to talk during intimacy – my internal self would rather be physical. So one more thing to work on in terms of being clear and giving some gentle instruction or guidance.

** what I am getting back right now, though, from him, is encouraging. He is saying, more than once weekly, that he looks forward to getting some alone time with me. I don’t know how to do introduce the idea (because I might have to explain where I got the idea) but I think it would be very, very helpful to try the 30 days thing. Maybe after we have a couple successes. It would force us to make the space and it might get us over the awkwardness. Also, if there are physical challenges going on, we should get to a place where they are commonplace. Maybe summer when work is a bit lighter.

Well, on to another busy weekend. I have to think about how I can get him into a private spot on Sat. night even just for a cuddle. Last weekend melted into a fury of things. 

have a good weekend!


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

Thank you for your honesty. It seems that in real relationships nothing is hardly ever just an event, but a process. Along the process we can have and share little victories. Just one piece of advise that I HAVE to do is this, even seemingly insignificantly small victories need to be celebrated. It is maybe, but one small link in a chain of many insignificantly small victories. Even if you feel hopeless sometimes, it is sheer perseverance that wins in the end.

Your husband saying that he wants to spend even one day that allows for more time with you should be celebrated. If it is too soon to crack open the wine bottle and celebrate with your husband, then indulge in something that you really enjoy, just for your self. 

btw, I know that you are apprehensive about initiating, but I say try for any small sexual victory you can, try not to get discouraged if it is not satisfying or even awkward. Celebrate having attempted or what ever level of success with your husband that you have. If you feel rejected, talk to him more about anything or everything. Just keep the lines of communication open. Who knows, your perseverance may just end up as a sexual encounter.

I used to get upset when I would feel rejected by my wife, we'll call her Rough Patch Seamstress, but I soon learned to just keep the lines of communication open. Sometimes we would end up having sex and others, I had to take a cold shower. If I handled it well it would be a great starting point for my next attempt at initiating love making with my Beautiful Seamstress wife.

Anyways, while we were both reading your latest post from 4-29-11 (I think that was the date), my wife really wanted to re-read some of your older posts and she really wanted to leave you some advice on this post after Quoting below, what she read that prompted her to add to my post. I guess since the registration is in my name, I fully endorse what she has written. I am a stickler when it comes to formalities.



Jadegreen said:


> I've been feeling a bit discouraged so have not posted, and want to catch up here. Your replies are SO great. You really have answered honestly, and it makes me feel not alone. It has also made me think quite a bit (2nd post, below)
> 
> I need to go back to the "sex was awful" comment. I like your suggestion, rough patch about using a scene or something to set up a conversation or try something, without it being porn, which would not work at all. I am going to look up these movies, or some others. I need to find a way to open the door of his prudishness. he is really very conservative.Somehow, in whatever, way, we have to find a way to talk about these things.
> 
> ...


Men are like bricks. They are solid rocks that add strength to our lives. This is what attracts a female to a male. Additionally, bricks are dense. And any woman can contest to feeling this way at times with her mate. They are just not as intuitive as us.

Play that up. Get a kick out of realizing that you are the intuitive one and that you can drive him wild by intuitively meeting his needs and by continuing to instruct him, like you had been when you mentioned your recipe book. Our dense bricks get a kick out of knowing that they are doing things to please us, even if it means that we are the ones to lovingly tell them. They are like dumb dogs enjoying the frenzy. The trick is for you not to get discouraged if you feel like it is not getting to the climax you wanted initially. If it seems like it is fizzling out and it is becoming too much for you to continue, then that is okay too. Just tell him lovingly and very matter of factly that it was good but you want to now shift gears and bless him. Realize that this is a very normal situation in good sex, and encourage him continuously by telling him that it is normal. Neither of you need to take it personally if it fizzles out. Good sex is built up over time, it is not merely a one time encounter. Be confident that each encounter builds upon the other. 

I laugh as I read your honest remarks about the difficulties in sex, because I think any woman who is in a committed relationship with a man can relate. My husband and I have had many situations as like the one you described, but our sex is better and better with time and we learn to roll with the punches if we are going through a rough patch in other areas in our marriage and it happens to seep into our marriage bed. "Okay, we just need to work through this." I think I am speaking for both my husband and myself when I say that we have great sex . . . but not every encounter is a great encounter. That is okay!

I suggest that whatever stuff is really encouraging you in these forums feed to him. he doesn't have to know that you are passing a long good advise from forums. But just as you have been hungry for some good counsel, he is starving, and you are his lifeline so that he can be healed of past hurts.

You mentioned "I am guilty of not telling him what is wrong because I want to protect his ego and because I don’t want to scare him away". Can you share that with him before you guys start a sexual encounter. That humility can really open up for honest and good communication as you embark together in love making.

(Rough Patch here gain), We hope that you have many more small and large victories that will add up to one happy sex life in your marriage. The end result being full satisfaction in bed for both of you.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

well, - rough patch seamstress - just something small to celebrate a very small but steady progress. every week now there is loving touch, and this weekend a lovely set of kisses late at night - too late for follow up, but as you say, a little to celebrate.

I really like the idea of saying that I have been struggling to be kind and helpful - I have, it is the truth. But also that I would like to move towards something more.

and I laugh about the brick comparison. Yes - it makes sense. I am going to have to get over my inhibitions...


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

Seamstress was tickled when she read your reply. It took a while to be able to read it since we had to wait to get our computer fixed. We thought it got fried, when in all actuality the AC Adapter needed to be replaced. Disaster averted.

We are glad to hear that small steps of intimacy are taking place for you and your husband. Seamstress is with our baby right now and cannot write to comment back, but I am sure that she will soon.

I would like to ask a question about your communication with your husband. Do the two of you engage mostly in topical back and forth conversations (back and forth dialogue) , open ended conversation (One person gives monologue, while the other person listens and then gives a reply, the reply may take the conversation into another direction, though) or a combination of the two?

Another question. No matter which communication style is more prevalent, when one person is talking, is the other person actively listening? For example, do you and / or your husband give strong eye contact, head nods, verbal and non verbal "uh-huh's" type affirmations. Does the listener then repeat back what they understood of what the person who was talking? 

Furthermore, when one of you is speaking does the other person either suspend "all judgements" and "retort formulation thoughts" to fully "hear out" what the other person wants to say, or is each verbal exchange and opportunity to come back with a retort?

The answers to these questions reveal the style of communication between you and your spouse. 

In business school I had to learn all of these different types of communication and listening practices. I have found that the ability to openly communicate and actively listen fosters intimacy and sexuality within my marriage to seamstress. 

One simple truth that I had to learn the hard way is that when my wife is talking to me, she does not necessarily want her problems fixed by me right there on the spot. Rather, she simply wants to be heard and understood. This simple discipline of restraint on my part, has definitely led to much of our intimacy over the past few years.

True, it can be intensely painful for me to "JUST LISTEN", but I have found that she is more apt to hear my suggestions later, sometimes I get to add my two cents, after we have had sex and the restraint was double worth it. 

So if this is an issue between you and your husband, can this be worked on? If one of the reasons why you say "I am going to have to get over my inhibitions... " in reference to opening up to your husband when you said, "struggling to be kind and helpful - I have, it is the truth. But also that I would like to move towards something more", then is there a way to coach him concerning how he can best communicate with you?

Sometimes the way that couples communicate with each other translates over to their intimacy and sex life. If this is a root issue that can be mended, then maybe the healing could transfer into the sexual area of your marriage. 

One of the things about not knowing you personally is that I feel comfortable asking deeper questions than perhaps someone who knows you may feel comfortable asking. It is entirely possible that you and your husband have an excellent ability to communicate and listen, but it is worth asking in case it is an issue that may be hurting your sex life together. 

All I know is that when Seamstress and my communication and listening issues got better our love life got better. And, of course, we always can make room for those things to get better in our marriage too.

It was great to hear about your success. Here's to many more success for you and your husband.


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

I see several victories there as well. Him asking & genuinely wanting to spend more time with you is a _huge victory._

I will warn you that the 30 day thing is a huge challenge. We did a lot of negotiation to pick a month where it was even possible to do; this is with a partner who has expressed many times her desire is to have sex 7 days a week, with the possible (and not complete) exception of when she is menstruating. Mentally I had to do some soul searching, and take some things from Corinthians to heart to be able to be at peace with doing that for her, especially as sex was quite secondary to affection for me, but I knew it was primary for her. Good things came out of it, and the more realistic acceptance of 3-5 days per week being agreeable, but the offer for 7 out of 7 was made by both of us (with a few terms to make it a pleasant experience for both). 

I don't know. I was the one who wasn't as willing, and I was the one who suggested it. There is a part of me that questions how that will fly with a partner who isn't as willing. I know if she had been the one to offer that in December I would have looked at her like she was crazy. (That was a terrible month for us.) Emotionally I had a pretty hard shell at that time. In your case his has been softening. The butter may need to rise to fully rise to room temperature before you press that... Then again, may be just the thing to make that bond grow back.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

I wonder what the 30 day thing is again. I cannot remember if it was mentioned before in the thread or not. I think any sex schedule attempt arrangement may be a great idea. It takes some of the performance pressure off, if it is already agreed that it will be a "sex day." I cannot say that I would argue about having a 30 day agreement. 

Actually, my wife and I will naturally be setting up particular days to have sex once she gets her cycle back again after the breast feeding oxytocin hormones allow for the regular progesterone and estrogen mix to get her fertile again. My article:  Intimate Marriage, and  How to Save a Marriage explain my wife and my philosophy on knowing each others emotional and psychological backgrounds and how that allows us to better meet each others needs. So as such, and for many different reasons we are totally playing it safe and not having any intercourse at all until we map her re-established cycle. Instead we are totally engaging in outer-course. That brings me to my point, after we have mapped her cycle for about a year we will start doing intercourse again.


Natural family planning requires planned times on and off from sexual intercourse. The anticipation of the encounter seems to follow the agreement of it. Perhaps calendared set days will take the pressure off for you and your husband, once you are at the place to openly discuss your sex life together. 

Personally on the off days from intercourse which is everyday for us until her cycle is mapped, I am content with cuddling, conversation, heavy petting and outer-course. It is a foreplay extravaganza.

Also, the "sure thing" of the agreement takes a lot of the emotional pressure of the fear of rejection away for me. I pursue Seamstress with more confidence and excitement and there is not even going to be any intercourse involved. 

Just to make it clear, so no one says that I was not being honest, I consider time together fooling around and outer-course to be equivalent to having a full on sexual encounter involving intercourse. I come out of the experience just as satisfied. 

I hope that this idea helps.-


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

I am not sure if many people are familiar with natural family planning, but we are doing the most "safe" method. we do not want to make any mistakes right now.

I just thought that my last message was a little "out there" and wanted to clarify any confusion. We have had 4 kids all under the age of 5 (first birthing was a surprise of twins instead of the expected singleton baby) and it is time for Seamstress to have a break and for our lives to be able to move forward in our goals. Four kids is about all that we can handle and properly give attention to, right now. We have our own personal and medical reasons for not deciding to have a vasectomy or get her tubes tied.

Thanks for hearing me out, in order to make my last post hopefully make more sense.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

If it is sexual success stories that are still needed then maybe I have a success story that may help.

My wife shared with me that the "safest" approach to family planning was not going to work for her emotional needs. She NEEDS the emotional and physical connection that coitus provides. Not having it was driving her crazy and starting to cause upset in our intimacy together. 

Therefore, now we are trying to have intercourse, with condoms only, while she is still breast feeding. We are trying to use condoms strictly by the rules since there is less of a chance of getting pregnant while she is still breastfeeding. 

So to make this work, we had to communicate a lot together and communicate together mid-coital in order to not slip up and have twins again. 

The twins we had were conceived years ago when we were using condoms but were not as communicative and careful.

As of now, we are 2 for 2 in our intimacy using this approach.

I hope that this is a good success story to help give you more hope for your sex life in your marriage.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi jadegreen.

I just wanted to encourage you, even if the situation is really tough right now with gaining headway with your husband.

Slow and steady wins the race!


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi Jadegreen,

I hope that since there have not been any new posts on this thread by you that you and your husband are progressing nicely in your efforts to reignite the flame of intimacy in your marriage.

Just in case you need more advice or support in this matter, you can check out my marriage relationship restoration website at


Keep Marriage Alive, for the homepage article. There are tips to help you in your efforts to be "the solution" your marriage needs, in "Honor Based Love tips".

and/or 

Intimate Marriage, for an article that may help you and your husband regain the passion in your marriage again.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

hello... 

I've been a bit down about things - but more personally than relationship. I also felt like I had shared a lot - and I learned a lot. I learned the most about my expectations.

Re the part about family planning - that is very sweet. All of it. I am familiar with that process, as I used it in reverse from what you are doing, so that I could get pregnant. I love the phrase outer-course! I also think, as Anoonimouse said, that it would be a bit too soon to start talking about 30 days of full on sex everyday. We would go into shock just trying to do that. But 30 days of intimacy might be quite possible.

On the very good side, the embers I have been blowing on are glowing and show good signs of life. Last weekend he said "next weekend" and he is planning on bringing his paper and my coffee to bed this Sat. morning. It is a little hard to get privacy in our house right now due to some long term family living with us but our bedroom is very private. He has said that he hopes our time together may lead to more things - he is definately meaning sex. 

So, that is good, but we have also been there before. He seems to not follow through, or I don't follow through, or something happens. If he brings the coffee, I have my period, or something like that. We miss the moment. Or the phone rings, or I'm grumpy (I have a lot of insomnia). So, I am working really hard at being more receptive - by which I mean, not waiting for the perfect moment or the perfect condition. I realized through these posts that I have a lot of expectations. As it says elsewhere, or even as the 30 days try-out implies, you can do it even if it isn't perfect. and maybe just some outercourse with coffee would be fine. (very fine!). I think I must have a higher sex drive than him - but I asked him one day what his ideal frequency would be, and he said 4 or 5 times every couple of weeks. that is not too bad. Mine would be 4 or 5 every week, but reasonably we could probably manage more like what he says.

I am also working hard to be more clear. So, #1, I have ditched the flannel nightie. This means I need the room to be warmer or I don't sleep. He does love it when I am naked. And though it makes me uncomfortable, that is pretty marvelous. Somewhere I read, on some blog for men, that "you have the perfect opportunity every night, she's called your wife, and she crawls into your bed with your ring on her finger". Like the guy in the blog, it reminded me that this is a good set up - about as promising as it gets - I've got a husband he gets into bed with me most nights. But I do need to set the conditions a bit better. 

One of the challenges is that I do feel uncomfortable when I am naked and he is looking at me. I feel self-conscious and bad about my body (I am absolutely average so there is nothing to worry about - it's all in my head - and he doesn't care about all those things I worry about anyways). However, the other day I was bold and I purposefully faced him when I got undressed - he was so funny - he had a little booklight and he shone it right on me! of course a booklight does nothing, but it made me really uncomfortable. but I just stuck with it and acted proud. He loved it. and we laughed. one night he kissed me passionately. So surely we can't be far from other things... 

#2, in addition to being clear, as others have said, I actually need to start things. I have been just stroking a bit and things (beginnings of outer-course?!). I do need to work more at this but I've been a bit distracted with work lately. It is hard work to learn to make "a move" but I think this is just normal. 

what i have not done is to start a really direct discussion. We did have discussions a long time ago, but I don't want to be demanding, and I don't want to be complaining. he has enough pressure in his life, and for whatever reason, this approach has not worked in the past. I want to lead by desire. At some point we have to talk about practicalities but I want to make sure we are in a feeling -good with each other space first. 

I have a friend (male) who I have been talking a teensy bit with about my frustrations. He shared something with me, and then I kind of blurted this problem out (not all the details - just a bit of unhappiness). I'm not sure this is good - I try and be very careful about talking about my marriage with others, especially such intimate things. I also don't usually talk to men about intimacy - I think it can lead to things if you are not really careful. However, it has been very helpful. And he told a joke tonight - he is going to see his girlfriend and she said, where shall we meet? and he says, "how about at your clitoris? I'll bring the picnic!" holy moly! it is completely new to me that someone can be this clear and direct. I said "have a good weekend" and he said "I'll send you a postcard". goodness! Of course we were laughing. But here I learn something about myself, and my husband. he would never, ever, say something like that. And I would be shocked and I would never say something like that. it is so playful! and so direct. so maybe I (and not he) am the one who is a little close-minded. 

so, thanks again. I have a week of fairly easy work, so maybe we will be a little more relaxed. 

hugs to you all - and I am just amazed at the tender way you and Seamstress and Anoonimouse and his wife do and have worked through things. both of you, and Anx as well with his magic ring. I feel a bit hopeless but I don't think it is far - it has just been a long dry spell, that is all.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

ooh! that was a long post. sorry! 

And thank you for the link - I'll have a look.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen

It is good to hear that he is "interested" and making time in the bedroom with his paper and your coffee. Weekends are a start!

I have some more suggestions. Please let me know if and when you would be up to hearing them. I do not want to be pushy with advice.

It was good to hear back from you. We had to take a few days off from the computer this weekend but I am plugged into the main frame again.

All the best!


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi - sorry for the very long absence. (hadn't realized it was since April!). I post when I have a bit of space and freedom and its a been a bit busy with a lot of things.

I was just re-reading some of your earlier questions, but first, a report - a bit of progress! yeah! We had a nice, lovely, afternoon in bed a couple weeks ago. I did not have any O, but that was fine. I'll tell the story, because you can see how the conversation here helped. This sounds very unsexy, but it worked. It was surprisingly straightforward!

Sat. afternoon. Family away. I (a) made intentions clear. Made intention to act on motivations clear. (b) set a time – Sat. afternoon. Made clear that he understood I was clear. (c) thought about prep. Decided on nudity (he seems to like that - nothing fancy). (d) afternoon seemed to be passing so I had a shower and got ready so I was comfortable. Made sure bed was ready, room was comfortable temperature. (e) went and got him in my all-together as he was puttering. He was pleasantly surprised. (f) Got him into bed. (g) did not pleasure him first. Let him work on me. I gave him some small instructions when it got a bit weird for me. (h) when it got frustrating for me I let him know in semi-direct ways by moving his hand and saying things. Had some good fun parts – 101 positions was great if rambunctious! (lol) He caught it when it got frustrating for me– he said “you’re bored’ “you’re intellectualizing too much”. I did not take it personally (I think the physical boredom came first, and the thinking after). (i) I switched to focussing on things that are fun for him (which I enjoy too) (j) it finished without any O for me, but that was okay. 

I think that was a huge success given that we have a very low frequency of any sex. we had fun, it was intimate, he liked it and I enjoyed it too. 

It challenged a lot of things for me - my idea that I want foreplay (it might have helped but that can be worked on, and like has been said, I can take responsibility for my ensuring my needs are met, too), the lack of seduction, the lack of basic sexiness to the whole thing. But it worked, and that counts.

I have a second post, that is a reply to rough patch a while ago - something I missed.

But first, thank you for sticking with me. When I started this post I meant for it to be a chatty thing and kind of light. This has turned into a personal conversation but it has been immensely helpful. thank you very much.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Jadegreen,
> 
> Seamstress was tickled when she read your reply....(bit about computer dying! - glad that was fixed)...We are glad to hear that small steps of intimacy are taking place for you and your husband. ...
> 
> ...


This post was from a while ago, but I was just re-reading the columns here - mine and yours and ones from Anooniemoose. I had to laugh at R.P. Seamstress "brick" conversation! I would say I've shifted a lot, but in this quote, you asked about communications and I passed it over at the time. My husband and I met when we were both volunteering for an organization that helped people who needed advocacy, and we both have had simple listening training. that said though, I just discovered the 5 languages of love material and I've been realizing a few things. So in answer to your questions:

a. do we do topical (back and forth) conversations? We talk about stuff... but I would say that mostly he is a silent type and he likes to listen. I like to talk! That made for great dates a long time ago. Lately this has been a growing problem for me. I realized in the 5 languages material that I am probably a quality time person, which means that I really like shared conversation. This is just not something he does. We have been reading one of the 5 languages books together - he is probably a physical person, with affectionate hugs and touches being his "dialect". I think we will get further with this as we read the book.

b. do we do active listening? I would say I do - I am known as a good listener - I am not sure about him. He often doesn't "hear" me even when we are communicating really directly and making a decision. I think he zones out when I'm talking. He likes it when I talk but maybe he likes the noise of it. I don't mean to be disrespectful - it is just puzzling to me how he can say "uh-huh" and then act like I've never told him whatever it was. he also doesn't seem to get the emotion behind stuff and he likes to "fix" my problems if I am complaining. He feels terrible when i say "back off" but I've learned to not let him go on with the fixing responses. it just makes him frustrated because I am not going to do it - I am perfectly capable of figuring out how to fix my problems, unless I really need advice, in which I now just say so. Mostly I just need a hug because I've been hurt. I've learned to be really direct about this in the last couple of years. It feels brutal, but the clarity is helping. However, he still doesn't really listen, i don't think, to most of what I am saying. it's a challenge. marriage teaches you things - if you are lucky, you can grow. I can learn to be more direct, and so I am working on this. The listening on his part, though, I'm not sure about. I am trying to make sure he listens, but I can't tell the difference.

c. retort - I'm afraid I have resorted to retort. this not who I want to be. Part of it is a different communication style in our respective families. In my family people are almost distant - they never tease, and they avoid conflict. In his family people spar, express opinions forcefully and play blame games. They also laugh, forgive each other, and spend a lot of time helping each other. I don't know how to be direct like his family - it makes me very uncomfortable. On his part, even though he is a big softie, there is a kind of natural, easy-rolling judgement that he is not aware of -just part of his family style. I have been realizing that I often feel a bit apprehensive. If I dress a little out of the norm, for example, - try out a new outfit or something, he might say something in a way that is judgmental, like "oh, are you looking for a reaction?" I have some pointy silver shoes and he always makes a remark when I put them on. I love them! This kind of provoking comment happens on more serious issues too - whether it is a work situation, or getting ready to go out, or a concern I have about a family member. He doesn't mean to be making a put-down - it more like sparring invitations. if i am not feeling up to it, though, I just go silent. 

so, I guess this might affect our sexual communication too. I need to think about this more. 

As we move forward, (and we are changing, I think), I think he is trusting a little bit more, and this brings a little more respect back. I am also being more direct - maybe even standing up for myself a bit better. Saying "back off" if he is being judgmental. He doesn't realize he is doing it, so it has taken a while to point out that he is actually choosing to communicate in a certain way. You have each written that it takes a while to open the heart again. I think I see this in him - and in me too, as we work on this. And truly, it is just me doing small things. I have not "announced" that we are working on this. 

Meanwhile, I am planning my next seduction! I also think I need to be in better shape, so I am going to start some circuit training in the summer. I also am sure that at this point we need privacy, so I have arranged for us to go away for a weekend. it can't be until mid-July, but it will happen.

best wishes - thanks for giving me such great posts! (I won't let the reply be so long this time). And, I think I need to go back to Anooniemoose an read the instructions some more. They have helped a lot.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi, just saw this thread for the first time today, have skipped over a lot because I can see it's one I need to read properly and probably even cut and paste stuff to come back to!
Firstly, it's good to see a relatively low-key, no-controversy discussion about sex but also taking in emotions, struggles, etc. 
(yes, these are all my problems too!)
Second, well done so far JG and keep it up, it sounds as though you've worked hard to find ways that will help you both
Lastly, I wonder if I could just ask you to give a bit more detail (if you don't find that too weird) about your first seduction -
this bit specifically. _I (a) made intentions clear. Made intention to act on motivations clear. (b) set a time – Sat. afternoon. Made clear that he understood I was clear. (c) thought about prep. Decided on nudity (he seems to like that - nothing fancy). (d) afternoon seemed to be passing so I had a shower and got ready so I was comfortable. Made sure bed was ready, room was comfortable temperature. (e) went and got him in my all-together as he was puttering. He was pleasantly surprised _
How did you make your intentions clear and what was it that made this time work? How did you make sure he understood etc? I'm asking for my own use, of course - but it might be interesting given the backhistory in the thread to see just how you've been able to translate personal change into such a change for your relationship.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Madimoff and Jadegreen,

I applaud your wonderfully brave efforts to ask for help and advice! It takes a real woman to do that! 

Seamstress and my efforts to grow in communication of recent, has come out of living with her parents who have a standoffish approach to communication from what we gather. Of course Seamstress grew up with their communication style.

Seamstress brought her communication style of foment, internalize, then explode -- way of handling conflict into our marriage, while I brought my "smooth things over" but secretly become judgmental of her personality way of handling conflict into our marriage. We had good conversations -- due to our relationship being best friends before and during our marriage, but something along the way was lost. We got caught up in two separate worlds and our communication suffered. She has slowly, over time, coached me on how to open up to her emotionally and I in return have learned to instil words of truth concerning who she is as a person that I find "worthy of being loved". In a way, I am starting to pour words of affirmation and validation of her intrinsic and personal value to me and in return she is starting to validate who I am as a person. Our marriage is really starting to come alive. I think that this is possible, for even the most remote people. They just need someone to be patient, caring and understanding with them. 

JG, it seems that you have a pretty good understanding of the way your H thinks and communicates and how you think and communicate. That understanding it critical to reaching better constructive communication. It seems that you are not surprised (perhaps hurt) by H's zoning out and that you have a pretty good idea of when it happens. You can gently (preserving his ego -- one of the most important and fragile parts of a man) help him to zone back in and coach him on your communication based love language by perhaps, using a soft touch or gently embrace to have him zero in on your eyes, etc.

There is no order out of Chaos, only peace and love in marriage through mutual understanding and compromise to meet both of your optimal needs (understand the most that he is able and willing to "give up" before he simply shuts-down and matching it to what you are most able and willing to "give up" to him and give in to his needs before you will "shut-down". I believe that this can also make it better when you do not exactly appreciate. It takes time to reach understanding from two separate relational styles and it is not going to be easy, based on: 

"In his family people spar, express opinions forcefully and play blame games. They also laugh, forgive each other, and spend a lot of time helping each other. I don't know how to be direct like his family - it makes me very uncomfortable. On his part, even though he is a big softie, there is a kind of natural, easy-rolling judgement that he is not aware of -just part of his family style. I have been realizing that I often feel a bit apprehensive. If I dress a little out of the norm, for example, - try out a new outfit or something, he might say something in a way that is judgmental, like "oh, are you looking for a reaction?" I have some pointy silver shoes and he always makes a remark when I put them on. I love them! This kind of provoking comment happens on more serious issues too - whether it is a work situation, or getting ready to go out, or a concern I have about a family member. He doesn't mean to be making a put-down - it more like sparring invitations. if i am not feeling up to it, though, I just go silent. " 

This negotiations approach to relating to one's partner is a form of equilibrium that allows for compromise so as to foster the finer elements of an  intimate marriage. I will be updating some of what is on the link soon, so I have it here for extra-help, if it is useful.

Do not rush these changes. It is good that intimacy is developing for you over time, around circumstances. These things take time, that is how they work. That is my point of view.

madimoff, I hope that you get the details you are looking for from JG! I think JG can be a real help. She has been on the front lines for her marriage and is seeing some progress.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

I want to make one additional comment from my last post. When I give advice about communication negotiation, such as in my last post, I in no way want to make anyone feel that they have to put aside his or her feelings concerning how his or her spouse treats them, This is so, even if it is the way that his or her family communicate and handle each other, as in the case of JG's last post and her description of her h's way of treating her based on his family history.

What I try to suggest is that in dealing with those emotions of hurt, it can help to understand where the offending spouse is coming from, and trying to use that knowledge as consolation for the hurt that is felt. I also mean it as an objective frame of reference for meeting the offending spouse in the middle to make it easier to reach the offending spouse on his or her terms, offering how you feel based on your communication style to better facilitate two-way communication. 

I know that this sounds convoluted and complicated but it does not need to be mastered or accomplished overnight. Rather, it can become something that is tried out with a spouse solo until the other spouse start to be able to communicate on a level that better matches your communication and personality style. It is the give that facilitates the eventual two-way open communication that makes everything else in marriage easier.

I hope that this explanation makes up for any misunderstanding and yes, everyone is entitled to his or her feelings when communication with a spouse becomes hurtful.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

madimoff said:


> Hi, just saw this thread for the first time today, have skipped over a lot because I can see it's one I need to read properly and probably even cut and paste stuff to come back to!
> Firstly, it's good to see a relatively low-key, no-controversy discussion about sex but also taking in emotions, struggles, etc.
> (yes, these are all my problems too!)
> Second, well done so far JG and keep it up, it sounds as though you've worked hard to find ways that will help you both
> ...


thanks madimoff; this thread is not quite what I had in mind - i thought it might be one of those cheesy back and forths, but it has turned into long sincere letters which are much better. This has been such excellent correspondence. the replies have been really thoughtful. One of the biggest changes for me is that it has really made me think about my own expectations. I think I have accidentally taken quite a traditional female role. I was waiting for him to solve this problem, for him to make a move, and for him to find the solution to my lack of pleasure. Some of the comments here made me realize that I need to take control. I am a bit motivated by my own conclusion that although I have a great marriage, sex is absolutely absent and I have decided I am not willing to live the rest of my days on earth in a sexless marriage. however, saying that, I don't want to leave - it's a pretty shallow reason to leave. This motivation, though, does open the door to doing anything necessary to make it work because what's at stake is my marriage. so, I guess, to start, I am very open to any suggestion. I really try them on and see if they fit for me.

In terms of this seduction, go back to some of the earlier responses where Anooniemoose and Rough Patch and Anx, as well, talk about male perspectives. These replies about the actual sex encouraged me to be straightforward and suggested the male perspective may be, sometimes, a bit dense. (sorry guys). So I started paying attention to when my husband IS interested. I just tracked that for a while. It is the most awkward times - but he is affectionate and he does love me, which is something that is absent for other people. He just stopped expressing that in sexual ways a long time ago - maybe because I withdrew during a hard time in our marriage. 

to get inspiration, I looked at a website Anx recommended and I have done quite a bit of internet reading. the site Anx referred to is good for marriage and talks about doing things like walking in on your partner in the shower, etc. I figured I needed to start slow, but be clear and set the stage for my own comfort as well (room temperature being a big deal for me, for starters). These were some of the hints in that web site.

I also started watching my husband for signs of interest. I notice my husband really likes to hug me and kiss me when I am naked. This most often occurs when I have one arm in a sleeve (argh) and I'm rushing to get dressed, or late at night when I am jumping into a nightie and I'm tired (our bedroom is too cold for me). So not good timing but he seems to be interested. He is very conservative, prudish I would say, about sexual things. He doesn't like to talk about sex so direct conversation, naughty lingerie, how-to books, toys, and heaven forbid, porn videos or those things, are out of the question. 

The opportunity came when family were all going to clear out for the weekend (we have some family living with us). 

So I set this "date" up. This has followed a number of months of me telling him how much I want him, of me working on communication (listening), especially to how tiring his job is right now - I'm trying not to be demanding, even though my job is hard right now too. I tend to be a talker, and a complainer. You know - if you've got a problem, I've got one too (I'm so bad!). He is quieter, so i need to just "shut up". After a few months of me just expressing my wishes by recalling how much fun we had a long time ago, by hugging him and telling him how cute he is (which he still is to me - he is the apple of my eye), and by praising our recent attempt (we went away , and although it was not a great encounter sexually, for me, we at least did it and that's what I focussed on). So really, in one sense, the seduction was quite long. I was very pleased that after quite a while of "hmph" kind of a responses which were a bit skeptical, he began to really hug me, spontaneously and say "growl, wish we could do it now". Still very bad timing, but basically he was willing and we were communicating this way.

So, given the opportunity, I just followed some of the hints here and made it very clear. Nailed him down to a time on Sat. 5 days in advance, and then made sure no-one was coming by etc. I kept reminding him, hugging him, saying "boy, sure am looking forward to Sat." He was quite happy. 

the actual moment seemed to be slipping away, though, on Sat. I got into waiting for him to show up . Suddenly I realized I was reverting back to that traditional role and I was going to have to make it happen. Since I had observed that nudity was pretty much what he liked best, I had a shower, got naked and went and grabbed his hand and pushed him down the hall to the bedroom. He was quite happy with that. Good thing men don't need as much prep time!

in terms of the actual sex, we have always been used to a variety of actions - oral, hand pleasure, and intercourse in a few positions. I like intercourse the best, even though I don't orgasm often from it. However, he ejaculates quickly, so if we do that, we are "done" soon, which definitely doesn't work for me. as a result of suggestions here, I deliberately held off stimulating him or letting him get too stimulated. I let it be known, by guiding his hand, not doing anything to him except kissing and saying a few things, that he could pleasure me first. He stimulated me by hand for a while (hmm, sorry for the clinical language but I'm a bit shy). however, after a while this got boring for me, so then we switched to intercourse. it was much better than a couple months ago. He tried after he was done to keep going on me, but it got too boring so I just stopped it and we cuddled for a while.

I deliberately set my expectations for pleasure quite low. Mostly I want to have sex regularly - even once a month would be a top goal right now. I think i can get another date organized in July. When we get better at it (more used to it), I think we will be able to do it more quickly - we'll be able to read each other, organize time more spontaneously and so on. We used to do that! but life is harder right now. He gets up at 5:30 and leaves for work about when i get up. He works long days and comes home tired. I'm a contractor, so my work goes in spurts and I travel a lot. We have family duties to elder and younger generations, and he uses physical exercise to destress, so he goes out 3 days a week to do that. Sundays are taken with family things. We have very little time to ourselves. This is an issue that will change as we age, but right now, once a month would be quite good and keep our marriage going. My personal ideal would be 3-4 times a week, but that is going to be impossible.

by the way, I found a very cute web site that talks about the kinds of sex in marriage. I love this for the low-key way it approaches the whole performance aspect. it helped make me see that not every time has to be mind-blowing high performance stuff. 13 Kinds Of Sex Every Couple Needs | YourTango I read this as opening the door to my own personal list, which might not include sex in an elevator, but an equally risky proposition, sex before the family arrives! doesn't that put a smile on your face! This list also challenges that typical female attitude which I have, which is that the emotions have to be all perfectly aligned before it can happen. Nope. it can just happen. And in terms of frequency, it had better just happen, because if you wait for perfection and time to happen at the same time, it might not happen very often in a busy life like we have.

so basically, I am working on building a mid-age, new style of sex life. But this seduction is still a shaky first step. It is by no means regular. If I stopped my efforts, I think our sex life would gently die down to nothing. So far the actual sex is not really that great for me, either. I find that pretty demotivating, so I need to encourage myself. I have to open the communication lines on this when we get going a bit more but direct instruction is too much for us right now, because it could easily turn to criticism, I think. However, he knows I am not getting the best pleasure, and he feels badly, so this will need to be addressed. I am going to have to break through some of my own hesitations on this, and figure out how to do it gracefully. I have a lot more respect for the troubles men go through when they are a-courting, which is basically what I am doing.

so, you can share, too, here, or just follow along. 

best wishes


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Madimoff and Jadegreen,
> 
> I applaud your wonderfully brave efforts to ask for help and advice! It takes a real woman to do that!
> 
> ...


Well, as you can see, I gave Madimoff a longer reply. Hope it helps for her situation. 

Rough Patch Sewing, you are going very deep there so you are challenging me to be very honest. I can see that you and Seamstress must have done a lot of work together and on yourselves. it really moves my heart - I felt teary. these are such struggles! I haven't commented much on your situation, but I know that as you talk you have this difficult background going on. I hope your financial situation starts to turn around. Seamstress parents' must be very generous, but I'm sure it is pretty stressful, especially with a new baby and other children.

I heard a spiritual teacher once refer to marriage as one of the ways of dedicating yourself to God - marriage can be a teacher of Truth. I often think of that when I am absolutely frustrated and angry. This is the way I use this teaching: I believe in peace, and of course, peace can only come when you find a way to forgive your mortal enemy. Your marital partner is much less than that, so surely you can find a way to go through to peace. but we are not such easy creatures - and the truth comes back to haunt us. We cannot bury our true emotions or selves, not for love or money or marriage. So somehow, bit by bit, we must work out the way to love with respect to our anger or outrage and what that is really about, what we can let go, and what must spur change, even in ourselves. 

I need to go back and read your words a few more times and think carefully, but what I am taking right now is that you are affirming this sense of hurt in terms of sharp words. It is difficult. After the first discoveries of our different conflict styles (he is such a conflict avoider and I'm a stuffer-exploder) we then got to this more enduring pattern of different emphasis on what is hurtful and what is okay, and how that happens. Our sexual difficulties really started when something happened on the communication level which really hurt me. It changed my perception of how dedicated he was to the marriage and me. Never mind the details, but that perception has stayed with me. I withdrew. he still doesn't understand how important that communication was or what it signified to me even after discussing it in counseling. And after 10 years, I have to accept that he may never acknowledge it. However, I also have to be less obscure. Working on sex actually challenges me on this issue, so it is not a bad level to be working on. It forces me to let go of the emotional perfectionism, mostly because I want the sex more than the perfectionism. this means there is an element of forgiveness in what I am doing, as well as a bit of my accepting my part of my past role. So i am saying "sorry" in a way by initiating this sex. 

In terms of the hurt, part of what gets me over or through it is that in spite of the hurtful events of the past, it is obvious he loves me. He is totally devoted and would never leave me. So i got hurt, yes, but it was partly our own lack of understanding of ourselves and others at the time. However, the hurt has stayed partly because of my own vision of what a marriage is and what devotion really means. so I am challenged to reconsider my concept, and in particular, I am challenged because it is obvious he is still here, still offering his love and affection. 

on another level, I need to learn how to handle those sparring moments more gracefully. I'm quite clumsy. But this is skill and I can learn a bit, even if I will never be expert. I also have to take care of myself, including when i am hurt. This is self-protection and honoring my own sensitive nature. I do need to also call him on some issues, and I am doing that in various ways - one of them is by ignoring him! Although the counseling didn't work in terms of resolving issues, it did highlight for me that I have some valuable roles to play that I was not honoring. I'm a better organizer, for example. So over his protests that it is his role (and some sharp jabs at me), I am starting to do real bossing at home now - organizing holidays, finances, major purchases. I am still only having about 20% influence in terms of outcome but it has already resulted in a better balance in our life. Organizing our "date" was a bit like that too. I planned it, executed it, set the goal. I did not tell him or ask him to help me plan it. I stayed in the driver seat. And it happened and it wasn't too bad! And it is not like I am being a steam roller - the opposite - I have a LONG way to go before anyone would consider me a steam roller. I'm a big nurturer.

I have hope that he will have more ability to consider his own communication style when his work changes, which I think it will in 8-10 years. However, even if he doesn't change, I need to recognize that sometimes that cutting communication style is not good for me, just because of who I am. Right now I think my role is to keep the heart open, though, including through sexual intimacy, so that we have a marriage when he is ready to change.

Hmm. I need to re-read your words. i feel I am rambling.

regards, and respect.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

okay, back to technique. I just posted a quick question under the heading "tired of faking it". I don't really fake it but perhaps that heading communicates where I want to go with the advice. (hmm - I don't fake orgasms is what I mean, though sometimes I express a bit more pleasure than I am feeling). 

I need to start thinking ahead to the next problem, which will come as the frequency builds. I guess this means that I am having some confidence, though, that we will have a sex life again!


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi Jadegreen,

Talking about technique is a good thing to be talking about. You are encouraging him by doing what he likes, being naked for him and guiding him to do one thing to the next. Sex is a good thing to teach a man because it is not always easy to harmonize with a woman. 

The way that sex feels good to a man can sometimes be "mechanical", which does not encourage the sexual desire for a woman to continue. 

A man may not realize this in the moment so perhaps suggesting a new position, even a traditional positions can be very acceptable to the traditionally minded as you state you husband is and with a few little twists may be enjoyable for you, check out Sex Positions With A Twist - AskMen and see what you think. 

If you think that verbally suggesting these positions will not work or hurt his ego, you could try slowly moving both of you in that physical orientation if it starts to get boring for you. It looks like the gentle hand guidance works well for both of you as well. Remember as Seamstress says, "sometimes us men can be real bricks that need guidance" or something like that. 

I will write back soon. I hope that this helps.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Of course, the sex positions on the website which are supposed to be traditional with a twist may not be traditional enough for some or too traditional for some, but I hope it helps.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

When you "teach" your husband how sex should go for the two-of-you (props for being the initiative taker) does he retain anything that you have been teaching him?

I would suggest patience and bearing with any inability to get it at first on his part. I just learned for the first time last night a lesson on assertiveness, when trying to woo Seamstress. She has said it many times before, however, this time we had an open conversation about my desire not to be too assertive, so as not to take advantage of her. She reassured me that I need to take her non-verbal signals as signs to go for it, do anything, take the risks (apparently women like that, the bad boy syndrome), be willing to make mistakes.

Once, I got that, lets just say it went very well. Before, it was going terribly.

She has told me this several times over, but I did not "get it" until last night.

Be patient and get into the best two-way conversation about sex, with your husband and see if he gets-it. It may take several conversations, but when he gets-it, you should be able to expect a more enjoyable time of intimacy.

Of course, whenever I learn something new I update the site, so I am posting the link to the updated  Intimate Marriage article.

btw. I found a site that has MANY computer graphic illustrated and detailed description filled examples of sex positions. I can post the link here if you want it. I realized that the last link I posted about the subject was written from a man's point of view, still lookin for something good for you to be prepared for more encounters with your hubby.

I look forward to hearing more about your progress.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, a funny thing happened. I started this other question about technique, and it is turning into a dialogue about - guess what - communication! The book I am reading is also, actually, reinforcing this. It is written for men - I thought it might give me some insight into things I could suggest for him. I also thought maybe I could give him the book, but I think I won't do that. I'm going to go read your links now.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

it is difficult for me to find the updated post, rough patch, but I take your word that it works to keep talking. I wonder what was going through seamstress' mind as she kept telling you those things. I imagine she was patient, had some humour and had some faith that you would get it, as you are dedicated to being a good husband, a good friend, and a good man. 

the various positions are fine - we do do some of these things, and mostly intercourse is just fine although we don't get into the more acrobatic positions. as I've been working on this, I find it quite interesting to see us reflected in a mirror of others' and my own comments. some of my frustration comes from my own lack of openness.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi Jadegreen,

To be honest, Seamstress and I face many daily challenges when it comes to intimacy. Kids, living with family (I am sure you can relate), the baby doesn't go to sleep until midnight or thereafter most nights. By the time the baby is asleep and we have settled into our bedroom it is usually between 1 or 2 AM. I wake up between 6:30 to 7 AM with the kids and later when Seamstress gets up, I work on the business. Seamstress is with the kids between 8 or 9 AM until I take a break at 5 PM, she cooks (I am not a good cook) and then the night time issues start all over again.

The biggest challenge right now has been exhaustion. I have had to learn how to do all of the caring and loving things that she needs when we are together with the kids and when it is bed time, I usually begin to engage her for sexual intimacy. A few nights out of the week we have preferred snuggling and passing out, but often I start to try to get her interested in sex.

I start with message and then undressing, etc and she loves it, but often she then rolls over and falls to sleep. That was the death nail in the coffin for me a lot of nights. Finally, two nights ago she told me (again) that if I want it at 2:30 AM, I need to really make her get into it. I just broke down and told her how I feel about not having face to face contact when she rolls over. My conscience and sense of honor would not let me take the assertive role at that point because I felt like I would be taking advantage of a passed out woman, (in the past, while in the Army while at social gatherings, I have gotten into fights with drunk soldiers trying to take advantage of passed out girlfriends). Those experiences have stuck with me and I could not even force myself to go very much further.

Here comes the communication part. Seamstress told me that if the setting of our marriage is one in which I am trying to get her interested in sex (while she is in agreement and allowing me to do so) it is find, and expected of me, by her, to go for the gusto and really turn on the passion. She told me that I need to "go for it" and show her that I can "be bold and take risks", if I "jump for it and do something wrong", she will "let me know, so I can recover and do something else". 

Having that kind of permission (the permission part is the key) allowed me to "go for the gusto", make mistakes and REALLY get her in the mood. She told me that it is the female mindset of desiring a man who knows what he wants and takes risks to be assertive. She said that is why so many women go for the "Bad Boy", and then when the "Bad Boy" has messed things up and broken her heart, the woman wonders, "why do I always fall for the Bad Boy?".

There is something to be learned here for sincerely good men! Have the good qualities of the "Bad Boy" without the selfish, egotistical child-man issues and add them to the loving, nurturing, caring nature of the "Nice Guy" personality they possess. In fact, I do not like the label, "Nice Guy", I think it takes a Real Man to be sincere and still show assertiveness.

As far as how Seamstress was feeling and what she was thinking, I could tell that she was aggravated (at 2:30 AM) but she kept her cool and made the investment of really communicating with me, being patient and loving. She responded really quickly to me "getting it".

This assertiveness lesson will pay dividends for years to come!

Thank you JG, for pondering about Seamstress' state of mind and grace of handling a tough issue. It is not easy sometimes to be open and communicative together, but it is Always worth it to try!

In case the link is broken for the updated Intimate Marriage article, which has my "lessons learned" information for others, I am posting it again here,  Intimate Marriage, I hope that you can find the new stuff I amended for it. I also, shaved off about 400 words off the end of it. Making updates had brought it to become a 1,500 word article and I felt like that was too much to digest for internet readers. 

I am so happy to know that you are reading books about communication and intimacy, and that there seems to be more openness to it between you and your husband. 

Here's to many more victories!

btw., not getting enough sleep for a woman who just had a baby, etc, is not good, so I often offer to push back time spent on the business in the mornings so I can be with the kids longer, to let her sleep in. Years in the Army taught me how to survive on little sleep and since I am working on the business from home things can be more flexible.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

RP; you are a great communicator. Generally, I think my husband and I are in a much better place than we were, though we have not had another sexual encounter for a month now. I feel the possibility is on the table, though. We just need some time. Right now work is again very busy for me.

Re the bad boy/nice guy. I am conflicted about that - very conflicted. There was a time I fell for the bad boys, in minor ways, and sometimes in major ways. They did not turn out well. I had to regroup and think about putting my head and heart in line. I still don't know why a bad boy works so well - though I would say what I like now is more like "bad boy lite" - more like what you are talking about - being (ahem) firmly assertive. 

This has been one of the interesting things about this conversation - it has made me think about "womaning up". If my husband is being very good, very nice and considerate, which he is, then I need to woman up and take responsibility for asking for what I want, and then act on it. Unless I expect him to be the bad boy, which he is not and which I do not really want, (in real life as opposed to fantasy) then I need to stop waiting for him to take over. This is what I mean by womaning up. I need to meet him half way. 

I also think there is some basic difference between the way women and men get aroused. I take such a long time - most women do, that I do not mind at all having sex where I am not at the peak of arousal. Sometimes it is quite nice, even without fireworks for me. However, this does mean I am not particularly attentive or responsive, too. 

I am sorry that men that you knew were callous in regards to women they were with. It sounds like this injured your heart, if I can put it that way. When you write about approaching your wife, you remember this and it dampens your desire. I would think of that as a healing response. Focusing on loving your wife is going to make this a moment when you overcome those past hurts. In a curious way this is the way forgiveness works to me - forgiveness that you were present or knew that this was going on at a time when you could not do anything about it (and you did speak out, which is incredible to me), and now proof that in spite of that, you have a different intention, and this is a loving act, and can be a loving act. Holding on to that memory prevents you from being intimate - it harbors anger in the middle of your desire. The actions of those other men were hurtful to you in the sense that you were witness and like them, you are a man, so their acts reflected on your sexuality. You might cry, I think, if you are the crying sort. Sex is so complicated. It carries so many memories with it. 

ah! the link works. Thank you for resending.

Well, back to finishing up for the night.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

JG,

You have hit the nail on the head. I vehemently choose not to be a disingenuous bad boy for a reason. Once I know that there is no manipulation involved in a sexual encounter with my wife, I feel free to be assertive with her. When we have an understanding together and ground rules in place concerning what is mutually agreed upon, and what we are both comfortable with (only between the two-of-us, of course) I can then be as assertive as I can. I have chosen consciously and subconsciously NOT to be manipulative and disingenuous. Here's why.

I am the youngest child of four kids, only boy. All three of my sisters dated and married bad boys. Two of my sisters were raped by these bad boys. One of them, one of my sisters was tied-up, video taped and brutally gang raped by her boyfriend and friends. As a young boy, after finding out from my sisters, not being able to protect my sisters. I made some effective judgements about bad boys. The difficult thing is not labeling people as one thing or another unless all the facts about them and the reasons why they do what they do are understood. 

The disingenuous bad boy has something to prove and that often hurts others in incredible ways. Not always, though, as I said, I try not to put labels on people. 

However, here is my general understanding of why people act the way they act. People's personalities largely are made up of a combination of nature, nurture, belief system, worldview, and deeply imprinted conscious / subconscious "vows" and "judgements" they make on people and events that have caused psychological damage.

Sometimes, a person's personality is effected by chemical imbalance and psychological dysfunction. Seamstress is a Psych-Med Nurse and these things often are the topic of our discussions. 

People are generally familiar with nature, nurture, belief system, mental illness, and worldview. But, most people do not consider the affect that damaging personal experiences have, like shell shock, PTSD, verbal, physical, and sexual abuse. The subconscious does not forget these events and creates personality traits and some times "personalities" based on the trauma of these events. 

I would not be surprised if a lot of bullies / bad boys acted the way they do based on these factors. 

Generally, they play the bully for everyone. Bullies are often the most insecure people around, they are adventurous and do what ever they want, but it is all to stroke their wounded ego. This is my assessment of the disingenuous bad-boy. Again, I try not to label people as the disingenuous bad-boy though. Again, I would have to have a window into his life from start to finish to be a judge of one's character. 

Learning to effectively communicate with other people and how to understand why you do what you do is one of the best ways to change for the better, as a person. Seamstress and I talk about why we do what we do. We talk about why we hurt each other. Why we have serious hang ups and issues. We go back in our respective memories to the bad event, the feelings we felt and most importantly... 

We talk about the things that people told us about ourselves, the way we handled it, the way their words made us feel about ourselves and the self-talk we started using to form our judgements of those people who hurt us and personal vows about "ourselves" that have shaped us in negative ways.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

JG,

You go girl! "Womaning-Up" the way that you are doing it should build up the confidence of your loving husband instead of crushing it. Keep on giving yourself credit for that as well. Latch on to that feeling of being a "great wife".

You are taking yourself into tough difficult but rewarding territory. It is tough to "be the change" for your marriage. In the end the little successes will add up to a fulfilling love life. Small successive changes made through determination will add up to something BIG. The principle is called the slight edge. You probably do not need to read the book, but you will probably live it out if you do not give up!

Understanding how he gets aroused as a man, and helping him understand, ahem, how you get aroused as woman is the key to making this work. You understand this and with sensitive and patient communication together you can beat this problem. Perhaps, you could engage in the kind of communication that digs a bit deeper into why you and your husband act and feel the way you do concerning intimacy in your marriage.

My advice concerning communicating that way with is to discuss some old memory you have that you know has shaped you as a person. Talk about how it made you feel and how it shaped the person that you are now. If you start it out, then maybe it will take the fear out of him opening up in the same way.

I will talk to Seamstress for more ideas to help you and post them soon. I want to get her take and recommendations concerning this type of communication. I hope that this helps.

For what it is worth, this form of communication has brought the most closeness, friendship, healing, and intimate connection within Seamstress and my marriage.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Hey - I've browsed through much of this. My wife (of 19 years) and I have had a bit of a rough patch over the past 8 months or so. There were a number of issues that have contributed to this bad time. We started MC which was good. Most sessions i leave being really pissed off - she keeps coming up with even more of my shortcomings - but at least they're coming out. At one recent session, I told her that she really ought to go out and find the perfect guy cause I ain't cutting it : ) I've found blunt talk like this has actually helped. 

The past three weeks have been much better. I think because we have forced each other to confront our faults and,more importantly, the 'habits' we've gotten into in how we treat each other. I think this is also known as our 'scripts'. Things like my anger/frustration, her bringing up 'old issues', being controlling, her using sex as a weapon, my being disengaged, etc, etc. Just bad routines I've been completely direct about what I want in the bedroom and she has also been direct about what she expects of me (in and out of the bedroom). I guess the bottom line is that we agreed that we weren't content with how things were, we agreed that we had a lot of good stuff happening in our marriage and family, and we agreed that we'd work to make it better. It's still very much a work in progress but we've seemed to have turned a positive corner. Agreeing on some pretty sensitive issues.

Previouis posts have mentioned hormones and moods wrt sex and relationships. I've been reading an amazing book, 'The Female Mind' that talks about how women's minds work (and bodies and hormones, etc). It's really well written and should be required for any young man before he starts dating. (Think a user manual to the female psyche). There are some parts I re-read a few times to figure out how the author knew my wife (or daughter) beahaved that way. Dr. Louann Brizendine is the author. Ican't wait to read her "The Male Brain"

Good luck.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hey JG,

I almost forgot to share the therapy solution. The psychology of the control the unconscious (subconscious) has on our lives is briefly described here:

Psychoanalytic Theory - The Conscious and Unconscious Mind 

Going back to the memories that cause the subconscious control of our lives and coming to terms so to speak with the problems can help you break free of the control the subconscious mind has over us.

Seamstress and I subscribe to a spiritual / biblical rationale of this phenomena, and that is where I get the terminology, of bitter root (well spring source of bitterness that feeds negative behavior), judgements and inner-vows. The way of breaking a bitter root is through prayer specifically designed to help a person conquer these bitter roots with God's power and help.

In Seamstresses and my marriage, these tools have been invaluable as these tools have also helped us change our mind-sets to be positive and able to face any challenge together. These healing have strengthened our faith, marriage, and health. 

Here are some interesting links, specifically the video may peak your interest because it talks about how this plays out in marriage (though I cannot vouch for the site or other videos on it, this video seemed to make it easy to understand). Dailymotion - Judgements And Vows In Your Covenant Marriage - a People & Family video

I have not exhaustively checked out each of these sites, but I have read the article pages and think that these represent a good compilation of works to give a good explanation for what I have been talking about.

Bitterness...weeding out the poisonous root.
Root of Bitterness
Galatians 6:7-8, Reaping What We Sow (intense but accurate biblical view of reaping what one has sown)

Good series on this topic with a start to finish explanation on causes and solution for this problem:
Part 1 - Understanding Bitter Root Judgments "The Pool Ministries"* Sue Bowman
Part 2 - How to Heal from Bitter Root Judgments* "The Pool Ministries"* Sue Bowman
Part 3 - Removing Legal Rights Given to the Enemy* "The Pool Ministries"* Sue Bowman

The good thing is that you do not need to be a Christian or particularly spiritual person to see how these concepts play out in every body's lives. It is for that reason that I try my best not to judge people or put labels on people. Doing so is not necessarily true of them or good for me to do. Also, it is just plain wrong to look at a person and reduce them to a mere idea of who they really are. People should still be held accountable to their wrong actions but in so holding them accountable it may be the opportunity to be rehabilitated.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

Just wanted to give you a quick update on a bit of a success that I have had with my wife, Seamstress. Essentially, we have been trying to make opportunities to be intimate together. Yesterday, during the day, we found five minutes to be alone. The daytime is my wife's best time for her to want intimacy with me without me having to get her there emotionally.

Long story short, there were too many things going on and she was too tense for her to have any real enjoyment. We went on a date to Whole Foods (very fancy organic grocery store) to just walk around and have a snack. When we got home, she put the baby to bed and we gave it another try. I had to be assertive and at one point she had lost the drive to continue. I encouraged her that as long as we spend this time together with purpose and passion, then no matter what comes of it, we would be winners for being passionate and purposeful with each other.

Fervent emotional connection and encouragement saw of through to a very satisfying encounter, for both of us. I just wanted to throw out there that speaking to her with assertiveness, while dropping any pressure to perform, while praising our relationship for having both passion and purpose was what is took to galvanize our time together!

I want to encourage you to know that you could do the same to encourage your H, should either you or he get discouraged if the lovemaking is not going as first hoped for.

I hope that all is well and I look forward to hearing from you concerning what ever progress has transpired, no matter how small of a step it may be. Be encouraged! You are doing a FANTASTIC job doing something that is not first nature for you. You are learning, adapting, and doing what it takes to make the marriage what you, and what you feel both of you need it to be!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

together 36 years and married 34 here. Its all about open communication no holds barred. Each one needs to be willing to give some to satisfy the others needs. I'd dance through the house naked wearing a clown nose and hair with a monkey on my head if it got her off. She is the same way with me. Because we have learned these things our sex life now is way better than it was in our 20's.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Stonewall, I know what you mean. My wife and I are in a tough time in our lives and doing anything and everything for each other makes it so much better. One thing in particular that I am doing for my wife has me ending up with severe neck and back pain, but really, it is worth every ache just to see her happy!

Attitude is everything and the attitude and doing what ever it takes to make the marriage thrive is a daily task that needs to be undertaken. It is one of the central themes in an article that I wrote, called:  How to Save a Marriage. The message of "having a willing attitude about making your marriage happy" needs to be broadcast load and clear for as many married people to hear.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Jadegreen,

Just wanted to let you know that Seamstress and I are still rooting for you and your progress with your husband. Keep it up! You will get what you are longing for!


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks, RP! 

I have not posted for a while. I'm feeling kind of down about my project. Anyways, it has been a pretty busy time so maybe things will slow down. We both have holidays coming up. I'll come back in a bit.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

okay, now I've gone back and read the posts! Sometimes I don't want to, when I don't want to face things. It has been busy. 

#1 - this is such a good conversation. Looking at the post on hurt and assertiveness is now making me think about things. I did not have such good sexual experiences early on. They weren't terrible, in the sense of rape, etc., but they weren't loving either. I wonder if I carry this forward. I wonder if my H does. 

#2 - I have to go back and start again. We did finish one of the 5 love language books (at least I read it cover to cover), but lately he has been paying me compliments somewhat regularly. It is quite startling to me, which tells me he has not done much of this. He has a quiet kind of irony that is sort of a downer after a while - and although he jokes a lot it is usually at someone's expense - guess who. So when he compliments me it is a surprise. 

#3 - I really liked your sharing of the 5 minute afternoon session - and trying again - and doing something easy in between. That is what marriage is like, isn't it? And it reminds me that sometimes even just trying is very loving.

After this week, back to it. We are going off to visit family but we will have some time together.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

JG, First off, I think that this is the week in which you and your hubby will be "at it again" after returning from visiting family. Seamstress and I are still rooting for you guys

I also wanted to quickly ask a something. When "h" teases is it an endearing remark "in his own mind"? Of course, this is regardless of how you feel about it. 

Seamstress has a similar "term of endearment" style of poking fun. After a few years of marriage, I discovered that when she does that, it is one of her ways of being relational. I came to find out that when she was growing up, she was quite the prankster and crank caller. It was fun to her! I realized that she is having fun, albeit at my own expense, but then I guess that it wouldn't be as real from her if she "pulled punches."

I have informed her about my soft spots that are Really touchy for me and now when we talk, if she wants to "go there" she will say in a , "OK, THIS IN NO WAY MEANS THAT YOU ARE A .....," or "OK, THIS IN NO WAY MEANS THAT I EXPECT.... OUT OF YOU B/C OF......" However, my point is this; now that I know her history and personality, whenever she pokes fun at me, I know that it is her way of including me into her fun and love. I cannot expect her to relate to me strictly from my own relationship style and visa verse. The 'Give and Take' goblin strikes again!

To conclude my previous question, could you accurately see his relationship style of poking fun and teasing as a way of love from his perspective? Can that work for even the quiet irony of his method?

Just some food for thought. Of course, it may be quite possible that there is no way to extract endearment from his relationship style, but I am holding out for a possible, "Yes" to my question. 

Here's to hoping for the BEST!


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

JG, one more question.

If the circumstances aren't romantic of "as hoped for", can this be overcome in your efforts. I am talking about purposing in your mind that you will "push through" anything that is less than ideal?

In my case. I LOVE it when the lights are on, but Seamstress has to be in the right mood for that! Either way, mostly of our opportunities come when after we have put our baby to bed in the crib, at midnight or "there abouts." Her crib is directly next to our bed. This means that we have to have the lights out. 

I look ahead to the good stuff that lies ahead and that helps me to move past my desire for maximum visual enjoyment. That is how it is still everything and more that I want it to be. It is still special to me even if it is not as I would envision. For Seamstress, distractions and tipping off the rest of the people in the house are the issues that she has to get past.

If the mood is killed, can there be contingency "action" made to pick up from where both of you left off and make the magic happen? 

If there is a relational or emotional issue that is causing a "log jam" in the plans, then I feel that it is best to take the time to work it out and then go ahead with the rest of the "magic making" night.

OK, I am off of my soap box. I get these thoughts and have to ask. These types of things are tough, even extremely time consuming, but sometimes life has to be taken by the throat with a "teaming up" by the two of you. If you are the only one making these things happen, then I want to keep on encouraging you to "bite the bullet" and push through these trials for the hope of a better tomorrow.

Perhaps, you can do your own self fulfilling prophesy with "H." I bet that if you start acting the part and at least act like you appreciate his sense of humor, make him feel like the "hero of the office" while he is home with you, while making him feel like a super-leader and "stud", then those romantic qualities will emerge in him, much to your satisfaction.

A husband really, if handled properly can become putty in the hands of a skillful wife. Perhaps!

I will write back soon. I hope that this helps.

James.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi Jadegreen,

I have a quick question. I am crafting a new article on having a "shared vision" and the benefits something like that in a marriage can bring. The article includes a sign up for a free report called: 7 Secrets to a Happy, Healthy & Fulfilling Relationship. Once I am done with the article I will only be making it (the article) available to my newsletter subscribers (not on the sidebar of my site). Seamstress and I have been so incredibly blessed by our pen pall relationship with you here, that we want to make it available to you and your hubby as well. Just let me know if you would like access to the article (I should be finished soon), and I will give you the link to the it, and subsequently to the report.

So, the quick question is this, "would you and your hubby be interested in getting the backstage pass for the exclusive stuff I am developing, no strings attached? My newsletter subscription comes free with the report. However, if you are too busy to read them now, then you can save them for later. 

Again, I know that you are busy, but I also wanted to ketch up with you, with the hopes of finding out if things are doing better for the two of you and if you are feeling better about your efforts! 

Still, All the best for you guys!

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

I thought that I would post a success and not so successful story. I have had a vasectomy just over a month ago and the healing has been very slow. This made things tough for Seamstress and I. 

It has made her scarred to be intimate with me for fear of damaging things that are not yet healed. A lot is healed now, but things are still not 100%. So, this has been a challenge. I have to reassure a lot that I am ok. I have to show extra assertiveness or it does not progress to anything more than a message.

Last week all of the planets aligned so to speak and it was wonderful. 

However, since then she has not been as interested. A lot is going on right now! Sharing one house with her parents has caused some major things to come to the forefront and she is now looking for work so that we can have our own place and get our finances back in order.

This has made intimacy an uphill battle, simply because we do not have the privacy during the day and she is beat tired at night. 

I revert back to my Army sleep schedule of, very little sleep quite easily and can work on the business at night. However, when I do not get enough sleep I am not on not very charming. Not less personable I would have you believe, just not as attractive to her. In any case, intimacy has been something we talk about and, yes, even negotiate. I have to think back to the negotiation skills of which I wrote from the " 50-50 Marriage" article I had researched and formulated. All of this is to have greater success with physical intimacy.

Right now, Seamstress is sleeping and I am still up. As I was working, I thought that I would check in on you to see if you had posted a new update.

I have to admit that I am biting my nails and crossing my fingers as a lot for the two of you. It makes me want to check and share if I have anything worthwhile of which to share!

I guess that in interpersonal relationships the healthy ones are the ones that are struggling. When a dry period occurs and it is tedium as usual, it seems that there needs to be something in particular to be dissatisfied with! When ever Seamstress and I hit plateaus together that is when things are at their worst for us!!!

I am one that takes even household issues, sees them as adventure opportunities. It is something akin to... Oh, I don't know, uhm something like that "Romancing the Stone" movie or some others just like it, in which the guy and the gal are on an adventure and they argue and disagree, but in so doing... Passions flare!!!!

For me it is the perfect set up! I can make choices that make Seamstress feel loved, accepted, secure, and appreciated all amidst a seemingly never ending flood of turmoil and drama. (I am not the antagonizing kind, so maybe Romancing the Stone et. all is not a good choice of example) but...

Is there that kind of opportunity for him to do something loving amidst a tough situation... or,

Could you do that for him amidst a tough situation?

Right now, I am just throwing out ideas.

Maybe it will help, maybe not. It is good for me to write about these things and I hope that it is good for you as well!

P.S. 

I do not want to make light of anything that you and your husband are facing together with your pursuit of rekindling the romance within your husband and for your marriage. I just feel comfortable writing what is on my mind here for you! 

Here is to your success!

Sincerely,
RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Just a quick Passion Success Story for ya JG!

I hope all the time that the stories of failure and success help you in your efforts. It is good to know that someone else in this world cares so much about their marriage that they will work so hard and accept even tiny steps. Keep it up JG.

You will have that fully satisfying marriage you seek!

Now to my success story for you.

Seamstress had a great idea to take it easy and take the night off.

She is full swing looking for work and I am full swing trying to make the business work well.

She said, "hey, lets rent a movie and just do a little date instead."

We rented that Matt Damon movie, "The Adjustment Bureau"

It was a bit cerebral, but definitely romantic.

It was fun for me and her and just what she needed to feel romantic.

Everything else is history. No problems!

I hope that me bringing up good movies is a help for you guys,

Till next time.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi JG,

I just wanted to send you a quick news update about an article that has a lot of bonus material that you may want to share with your husband if you see this post sometime soon.

I have noticed that across the threads all over the sex health forum for "Talk About Marriage" that many husbands feel like they can't get their wives to want them again. I know that this is not the particular issue in your marriage. However, the tips can help your husband better understand your needs and where you are coming from.

I would hope that something that gets a little into woman's psychology as this article does, may help him to do things that turn you on, rather than the other way around.

When you get an opportunity, check out:  How to Make My Wife Want Me.

Please let me know if it is a help to your pursuit of intimacy with H.

Thanks JG


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

It's been ages since I posted here - so after all our correspondence I noticed a lot of people had viewed and I thought I should update. 

In summary, last year was a vast improvement over the previous years. I quadrupled our level of activity. HOwever, that is from 1 to 4 times! Still, that is an improvement. Over the horizon I need quality, but right now, quantity is great. We had a lovely time around Christmas when I did as advised and just straightforwardly, calmly, explained some things, showed him with my hand. Light bulbs went on - he was so pleased he declared "I'm going to do this every night!" - a bit much! whew! but enthusiasm died quickly - the next night was busy, so was the next... 

Most importantly, though, I learned a lot through talking here. Anx wrote: 
"Looking internally and changing yourself is one of the hardest things a person can do. Having the energy to push a LTR out of a rut that you both have dug takes a brand new mindset."

So - I have learned... studied... practiced. I know a lot of things and I'm not so frustrated. I have some control now over unwanted attention - and when I choose not to engage I don't take it so hard (I used to really feel guilty). I have some plans - I think I know what attracts him - maybe I know less about how discouraging I can be.

I do need to start my reboot efforts again - so some serious within-marriage dating is in order as RP suggests, above. I've been working on other things - my own physical fitness, career, etc. After this long with the "out of order" sign on the bedroom wall, weeks of inactivity are the norm. But can't let it stay that way... so back to work now that spring is in the air... 

thanks all - I'll post again when I get going. Love is still in the air - just need that foundation activity... 

JG


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

JG,

I hope that the mixture of technique, assertiveness, and not being nervous about taking h's hand to make him do the right stuff will continue to bring more success for you. 

Is there any indication that this season in life for you now may slow down so romance can be more prolific?

On a more personal note, JG, it is good to hear from you on this forum. I hope that you get a lot more time in your life with your husband to pursue romance.

I too took some time off from blogging and visiting TAM. I am now slowing my pace of life down a bit b/c I had a bad accident that cut my knee open. I am in the healing process, but have made more time to rest my wounded knee and write here. I am also learning how to pick up a 3 yr old and a 2 yr old while hopping on one foot. Life can get crazy, but I am glad that both of us are writing on TAM.

Hope to hear more developments from you soon!

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi JG,

I just added a comment to the site psychology today concerning the connection between great lovemaking and sensual touch at:  Advanced Sexual Techniques of World Class Lovers. I do not know if the article and comments could help h with anything that he, in your wifely opinion, could use to gain more confidence and technique mastery.

I thought about sending you more helpful information, and thought what could it hurt?

Thanks,

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi JG, 

I just thought that I would give you props for hanging in there! I thought of how steadfast you have been in contrast to the more pessimistic type women who I am attempting to help in this comment:  Comments on "Normal Healthy Couples Have Sexual Desire Problems" | Psychology Today. 

Don't worry, I do not talk about you on other forums and websites. To me, that just seems tacky, thoughtless and wrong to do. 

I hope that your efforts are very productive and come at just the right time for both of you.

All the best to you, JG.

RP.


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