# Affection-less marriage the end?



## Redallover225

I am 33 years old, and have been married to my husband for almost 9 years. We have three children, 8, 6 and 2 1/2. We met near my hometown, and ten months later, moved in together two hours away, to another state, closer to his family. My husband was never a very affectionate person. Our relationship was "normal" at the beginning. There was kissing, and hand-holding, and that "can't get enough" of eachother at first. But the affection quickly dwindled... and it never came back. I just assumed that it was a normal part of a long relationship....
Fast forward 15 years from when we met. We live in a nice house, in a great area. He is a fantastic father to our kids, he treats me with respect and kindness. He helps me with household chores. He is still attractive, he's a hard worker and I am certain of his love for me and our family. But there is absolutely NO affection in our lives. He hasn't kissed me in about 14 and a half years (and I mean REALLY kissed). He doesn't hold my hand. He doesn't embrace or hug me. He doesn't even sit next to me on the couch in the evenings. He doesn't look at me when we have sex (although he never has looked at me during sex) and again... no kissing. I've never felt that he and I have ever really "made love". He doesn't tell me I'm beautiful, even though I know that I am attractive. He doesn't make me feel like I'm an important part of his life at all.
We went to a couple marriage counseling appointments, and he admitted that he doesn't feel the need for affection in his life. I, however, desperately need it. I have felt so lonely for so long, and I miss someone needing me as much as I need them. 
We have talked about how I feel and what I need; he has said he will "try" to offer me affection.... without much done in that department. But I think I've reached a point in my life where I don't want it from him anymore. I love him, but I'm certainly NOT inlove with him. I find that kissing him would make me cringe. And holding him seems fake. I know that its not what he wants to do, and I want any affection I receive to be genuine. I want him to WANT to touch me.
But if I leave him, where do I go? My family is in another state. I miss my family. I don't want to stay here anymore. Is it a horrible thing to want to end my seamlessly "perfect" marriage just because I don't feel physically loved? And because we have children, do I need to forget about my happiness to keep the "family" together? I'm so lost....I've already lost 15 pounds from stress (and the only compliment I got was, "your boobs are smaller"). I know our children can see that I'm unhappy. My husband says that I've always been "unhappy". How do I know if ending the marriage is the right choice?


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## SadSamIAm

I am sorry you are going through this Redallover225.

I am a man and in the same situation as you. I have no answer, I have tried to convey how important affection and physical touch is to me. My wife doesn't care and won't put in the effort.

I have been married for 24 years. We have everything most people would want. My children also know that I am not happy. I wish I would have left many years ago.

I am now at a point where I am either leaving this summer (after second daughter graduates) or in a couple of years (after our last child graduates). Or I will continue to live an empty existence and never have the balls to leave.

Wish I had an answer for you. Because I know the hell you are going through.


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## Redallover225

So since you've been going through this for so long, can you honestly look back at the last 18 years of your marriage, and say that you should have left? My fear is that I'll look back and say I should have. 

I figure... right now, I'm young. I'm in my prime, if you will. of course I'm afraid to be alone, but at least it will be on my terms, right? I'll be free to try and find someone who can give me that affection and intimacy I so desire. 

I just want to know if you have regrets....


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## Hicks

You are not getting your emotional needs met in your marriage. For you, you have a need for affection. He does not feel this need personally, so he doesn't truly understand how you feel. However, he himself has emotional needs. The question is what is the equavent for him that affection is for you? Are you meeting this need?

It's important to understand a) whether he is just a selfish jerk that is happy to have his needs met, but denies meeting yours or b) he does not get his needs met by you and therefore does not feel motivated to meet your needs.


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## SadSamIAm

Very tough question! We have had some good times. 

I guess it would depend if the grass would have been greener. No marriage is perfect and another relationship might not necessarily have been better.

At the moment, I am at a low point. So my answer might very well be that I wish I would have left years ago. But next week, my answer might be different. 

When we go on vacations alone, we have a great time. Enough affection, intimacy, sex to fill my 'love tank' for a couple of months. We have done this 4 times in the last 5 years which has helped. I am hoping that once the kids are grown and gone (another 5 years or so) that intimacy will be better.


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## Redallover225

Hicks: I know that he is not a selfish jerk getting his needs met. He has never been like other guys... meaning, he was always okay with once a week or once every two weeks having sex. Me? Not so much. I've always had the higher sex drive. But for me, after getting turned down a couple times, I just stopped initiating. I once begged him, and he turned me down. Another time, when our kids were napping, I had come out of the shower with a towel on and began to unwrap it, and asked, "Quickie?" Yeah... big "no" there! So he doesn't take advantage of that. When we decided to "try" and fix our marriage, he was completely aware of the things that I needed tending to: affection. But then he asked me, "What are YOU going to do to try and help our marriage?" 
Honestly I was at a loss. He never presented me with any issues, so I didn't know what needed fixing on my part. So, I simply said, "well, do you have any suggestions on what I can do?" But all he said was that he didn't want to have to "tell" me what to do. I've offered.... I get shut down... seems like there's a pattern here.

SamSamIam: I don't know what foreplay and sex is like for other married couples. Quite frankly, he thinks that squeezing my boobs, and rubbing my vaginal area is all the foreplay I need to get going. Not so! After about 20 minutes of this, I finally just give in and get it over with. I just don't get any enjoyment out of sex with him anymore. Yes... sometimes I reach a climax... but its physical... not mental. 
Our vacations are always "family" vacations. And they're also usually something to do with his family. His brother's house in Kentucky.... His family's land up north. In my experience, its usually the wife's family that gets the bulk of the attention. We didn't see my family for Thanksgiving, Christmas, or Easter. And yet again, we won't be seeing any of my family for Mother's Day either. I am usually the one to drive to two hours to see my family and friends, and he stays behind..... usually to hunt with friends. He shows no interest in my family. I feel like he supports much of what I do, but I don't do much. He wants me to "get a hobby", but I have a full-time job and three kids.... I really don't have time for a hobby. I want time to myself.... I want to be alone. Basically I just want to leave and go home to my family. And as bad as this sounds.....If that doesn't include taking my children with me, I may be okay with that. Which just makes me feel like a horrible mother.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Red:

This current state of indecisiveness is bad for your health (physically, mentally and emotionally) as you already know. *YOU* will not find the answers alone...or you already would have.

You either need to get IC to clarify YOUR wants/needs/goals in life OR you need to get into MC again with your H. Until someone can help YOU distinguish for YOURSELF what YOU want and, hopefully, help H distinguish for HIMSELF what HE wants...you will be living in this limbo.

So, *either IC for YOU *(and hubby is free to go on his own if he wants) *OR MC for you both.*


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## Redallover225

SlowlyGettingWiser: It seems you know me better than so many others do. I am COMPLETELY indecisive... about most things. I just don't want to make the wrong decision. 

I KNOW that I should go to IC for myself. I've known that for months. Unfortunately, our financial situation is pretty dreary too. I've looked into free counseling in the area, and they only offer it if you don't have health insurance... which I do have. BUT... because of our dire financial situation, I can only afford a high deductable plan, so I'd have to pay for the IC out of pocket. 

I realize that it sounds like an excuse, but finances are an important thing to me. I know I know... what's more important, my marriage or money. I guess I have to bite the bullet and get some counseling, no matter what the cost.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> he was completely aware of the things that I needed tending to: affection. But then he asked me, "What are YOU going to do to try and help our marriage?" Honestly I was at a loss. He never presented me with any issues, so I didn't know what needed fixing on my part. So, I simply said, "well, do you have any suggestions on what I can do?" But all he said was that he didn't want to have to "tell" me what to do.


THIS is passive/aggressive bullsh*t!

This is NOT like other situations I've read here at TAM where the spouse has brought problems up to the spouse and they've been dismissed or ignored. Yours won't even TELL you what the hell he's mad about so you can correct it. Now, go ahead! Guess what I'm pissed about! And if you're not gonna fix mine, I'm not gonna fix yours! Better guess right!


> he treats me with respect and kindness


Except he KNOWS you need affection and won't give you any. You ASKED for his input on what YOU can do to improve the marriage and he wants you to guess or read minds!


> there is absolutely NO affection in our lives. He hasn't kissed me in about 14 and a half years (and I mean REALLY kissed). He doesn't hold my hand. He doesn't embrace or hug me. He doesn't even sit next to me on the couch in the evenings. *He doesn't look at me when we have sex* (although he never has looked at me during sex) and again... no kissing. I've never felt that he and I have ever really "made love". He doesn't tell me I'm beautiful, even though I know that I am attractive. He doesn't make me feel like I'm an important part of his life at all


Your man has *SERIOUS* INTIMACY ISSUES. He has all along, and now you've had a gut-full of it 15 years later.


> *Is it a horrible thing to want to end my seamlessly "perfect" marriage*





> Our vacations are always... something to do with his family





> We didn't see my family for Thanksgiving, Christmas, or Easter. And yet again, we won't be seeing any of my family for Mother's Day either. I am usually the one to drive to two hours to see my family and friends, and he stays behind..... usually to hunt with friends. He shows no interest in my family.


*Not so seemingly "perfect" in MY view.*
*Your husband has serious intimacy problems.

*Your husband witholds affection and sex.

*Your husband is selfish concerning your children spending time with their maternal grandparents. (Depriving them of a good relationship with your parents and vice versa).

*Your husband is selfish about visiting with your parents himself. He would rather indulge his pleasure in hunting with his friends than attempting to build a relationship with your family.

*So the seemingly "perfect" part would be:*
*Your husband is attractive.

*You have nice home in a good area.

*Your husband is a good father (except for modelling VERY poor 'husband' behavior for your children. Your sons will be looking to him to see how to be a MAN and how to be a HUSBAND. Your daughters will be looking to him to see how a HUSBAND behaves. They will model what they see. If they don't see better than THIS, the boys will be selfish about time and affection and the girls will accept it in their spouses.)

NOW, at least, you know where to start in counseling.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Red: 

Can you get a temporary part-time job to pay for IC? Would your parents be able/willing to help you pay for short-term IC (if they knew how miserable you currently are?)


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## MrK

Redallover225 said:


> He doesn't look at me when we have sex (although he never has looked at me during sex) and again... no kissing.


Uh-oh!

Are you 100% positive he's not gay? If I had to prove to the world I liked men, I'd marry one, then that's EXACTLY how I'd handle the sex part. And I'll be honest, the rest of your post is EXACTLY how I'd handle the rest of the relationship.

Sorry to always revert to that one, but I just can't get my hands around a man that doesn't want sex 3 times a day (no pun intended). 

ANY red flags in that direction? I'm just fishing here...


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## Redallover225

MrK:

I had to laugh at that one. You wouldn't be the first to ask that. I'm fairly certain I have pretty good gay-dar. After all, his mother is a lesbian, and I've been around that crowd often enough to see different kinds of behaviors. And while I LOVE hanging out with the gay crowd (the men and women I've hung out with are a riot), I know he's not gay. 

He doesn't show any gay tendancies.....and surprisingly for having a gay mother, he is kinda ****-phobic. Not a lot, just a tad. He's a man's man.... big truck, loves to hunt and fish, in the construction industry, and occassionally makes a remark about a girl that's super hot, or with large breasts (and those comments don't bother me... I'm emotionally checked out anyways). But he has never been sexually driven. IDK. 

But I think that's part of the reason that for so many years, I was content with not having affection. I thought, "maybe I'm just not that pretty," or "maybe I'm fat" (like every other girl thinks). But after going out with girlfriends, and getting hit on frequently, I know that I am not the problem anymore.


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## Redallover225

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Red:
> 
> Can you get a temporary part-time job to pay for IC? Would your parents be able/willing to help you pay for short-term IC (if they knew how miserable you currently are?)


First let me say I am not miserable. I'm unhappy, yes, but not miserable. 

Second, I already work 30 hours a week, and occassionally pick up a weekend here and there. My husband, however, started his own business last year, and we've been dependent on his income since we've been married. And with your own business, your income is dependent on other people paying their bills. So since the income has become MUCH less in the last two years, unless he decides to get a part-time job, we're pretty stretched thin.

And my parents: Divorced and stretched pretty thin themselves.

Lastly, your previous post really hit me. I guess I still see him in a different light. I try and see the problem from both angles.... both sides. In my view, he's a pretty good guy. This decision would be A LOT easier to make if he were an a$$ or a jerk.


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## RClawson

*Lastly, your previous post really hit me. I guess I still see him in a different light. I try and see the problem from both angles.... both sides. In my view, he's a pretty good guy. This decision would be A LOT easier to make if he were an a$$ or a jerk.
*

Red I think you are missing the point. The fact is that at this point you are being abused emotionally and have been for a long time. Do not be to naive about him having homosexual leanings. I do know more than a couple of guys who for years masqueraded as the ultimate man's man complete with beer, football, hunting etc. That is until they could not stand the charade any longer. It could also be he is just asexual. At any rate his neglect of you from a standpoint of intimacy is inconsiderate and as was said before laying a foundation for your kids that is quite harmful. No matter how great you think he is for the kids.


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## memyselfandi

First of all, in response to MrK...I doubt that he's gay.

In response to Redllover225..I know how you feel.

My first husband was affectionate as hell. He was always all over me whether it was touching me, holding my hand, sex, etc. He had this thing where we could be walking down a street holding hands and he'd kick my hand into the crook of his arm if he had to do something as simple as scratching his nose...and then grab my hand again. Oftentimes when I was doing things around the house, he'd grab my ass and say, "Niiice Assss!!!"

He was one that never minced words in telling me that he loved me. Oftentimes he'd say, "I love you sooooo much!!", put flowers in my car when I was having a bad time at work with a supportive note...bought me stuffed animals and put them in my car..bought me Easter baskets with stuffed animals in them, knew what I liked for Christmas and for my birthdays.

He'd go shopping with me the day after Thanksgiving. We had a blast fighting the crowds!! We went golfing and shot pool and went camping. 

Along with that..he was Mr. Personality. He was rarely in a bad mood..always fun loving and could talk (and would) talk to anybody. He was never a judge of character as he just accepted everyone for what they were...much like me. He was a hard worker that took over the family business after his dad passed away..got along with and had the best family ever..treated his mom like gold..and eveything was blissful..until he decided that his personality could get him anywhere he wanted it to..started taking me for granted..and cheated.

Over and over again.

How do you let someone like that go?? Someone you had a wonderful marriage with (or so you thought..)..someone you thought was your soulmate, etc. Someone you'd spent the last 15 years with that made you sooo happy and then find out that they'd started cheating??

It wasn't easy but I had to.

We had an easy divorce as he's just this nice guy that lost his way. Never dealt with the fact that his dad passed away...never dealt with the fact that because he wanted things too big and too fast, that he ran the family business his dad had worked so hard for into the hole...

He just couldn't deal with it.

He didn't want the divorce, but I did. After being in denial of his cheating for years..I finally had to deal with the fact that he loved himself more than he loved me....and it was tough..very tough.

I spent two years alone pretty much just trying to get my feet back on the ground. I dated a little after that..had a six month relationship with a guy I thought I was in love with..but I realize now that I was just looking to love just about anyone...I just wanted to be loved for fear of being alone, and found out that it wasn't really love at all.

I finally got a grip and decided that maybe being in a relationship wasn't all that it was cut out to be and found how how great it was to just be alone...probably for the rest of my life. No more heartaches. I got some counseling and finally realized that being alone wasn't such a bad thing after all. I actually liked myself for once in my life, which was a long time coming rather than loving a man more than he'd ever love me.

Fast forward to now as I'm engaged to the love of my life. We'd known each other 15 years ago and were always friends...got to know each other again online..and it took off from there.

My point is....he is NOT affectionate, nor a "wordy" kind of guy that will tell you how great you look..how beautiful you are..yada yada. I can't remember there ever being a time I got dressed up, put on makeup and wore some sexy kind of perfume that he ever gave me a compliment until I started just throwing on sweats everyday and he finally told me that he was gonna throw all my sweats in the garbage..and liked to see some cleavage once in awhile!!

The most I can get out of him is a kiss when he walks out the door when he goes to work and holding hands when we walk through a parking lot. Being that he's been an police officer, an EMT, gone through three divorces with women that cheated, took him to the cleaners, etc., he's just not an excitable kind of guy.

It used to bother me when he'd walk right past me to the 'fridge and grab a soda..not giving me the time of day..in fact it used to drive me NUTS as I felt sooo unloved since I'm an extremely affectionate person.

He'd lay on the couch and just reach out and hold my hand. Okaaay. Coming from someone that was used to sooo much more..that too was hard for me but at least he was trying as he told me that either his last wives cheated on him...or they just didn't want to be touched so it became one step at a time.

I'm one that thrives on affection so I just decided to basically, "throw it all out there" and hug him out of the blue..grab his rear when he least expected it..touch him and kiss him nicely in public. Every once in awhile when he's just sitting at his computer I'll hug him from behind and say, "Mind if I hang all over you??" and of course his answer is "No...I like it.." 

Our sex life if basic. Of course I'd like more but I'm not going to push it. He's got such a big heart and had been hurt badly. I know he's no longer in love with his ex's..it's just that somehow..he's built a wall and although I know he loves me fiercly and more than he's ever loved anyone in his entire life...sometimes the scars just don't go away automatically.

Again, his big time emotions are fried...from his ex's...from being a policeman...from being an EMT..from being a medic in the Navy, etc. He told me once, "Ya just learn to shut it all off..and I don't mean to..I love you more than I've ever loved anyone...I just don't know how to show it anymore and I thank you for being so patient with me...I really don't know what you see in me..but I'm thankful for what you DO see in me.."

I guess my point is...some men just aren't emotional. Doesn't mean they aren't lovable in other ways. I consider myself to be the lucky one due to that fact that he's faithful, honest to the core, works his butt off to support his family, and never ever forgets to tell me that he loves me.


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## Redallover225

Memyselfandi:

I feel for you. While your previous marriage, at the time, did sound like it was perfect, I'm sad to see that it didn't last for you. And I'm very happy that you have found that perfect person to share your life with.

And while you make some very good points about my husband, I still have the problem with the fact that I have no desire to hug, or kiss or be intimate with him anymore. I do for the sake of not arguing, or making him feel bad, and then in the end, I'm the one who feels like crap for allowing myself to have sex with him when I don't want to. 
I get it. I know I'm lucky for the things I do have. I'm lucky, but I'm not happy. Perhaps slowlygettingwiser had me pegged..... I should just get counseling myself to see what I need to make me happy.


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## MiriRose

Hi Red - Have you heard of the book, The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman? I learned about this book while working with Focus on the Family, and I know that many people have found it to be helpful. It's pretty obvious your love language is physical touch... you might want to try to find out what your husband's is. Also, Focus offers free counseling over the phone. Hope this helps - praying for you!


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## KathyBatesel

I had a marriage similar to yours. For six years, we did not have any sex at all! Before then, if I tried to kiss him during the act, he's use his jaw to turn my face away from his. Yet otherwise we had great rapport and respect between us. 

In his case, he *was* attracted to something different than me. Shrug. He still wanted to be married, was still a great provider, etc. At one point, after he was deployed for a year and had an affair, I told him I was free to step out of the marriage too because I wanted to gauge his reaction. He said, "If that's what you want, I'll accept it. I just want you to be happy." HA! I'm not the cheating type, and eventually I ended it. 

Afterward, I regretted my decision for several years, but that's another story. 

You want him to show affection. (Well, did want that... I'll come back to this.) You recognize that such behavior is mostly alien to him. Yet you want him to do it genuinely and spontaneously, not "faking" it for your sake. That's not a fair expectation to have. What you are really saying is that you don't accept who he is and want him to be a different person. Although he might be able to give you affectionate action, it doesn't come naturally to him. At least not with you, not now, for whatever reason.

Yes, you could leave, though you have so much invested and it's still possible to find your happiness again. However, to find that happiness means YOU have to change your attitudes and beliefs. 

That might mean that you learn to ask for a few minutes of affection, and appreciate it when he complies with your request. His "act of service" might be his way of showing love, and if you can recognize it and value it, you'll feel more loved than you do now. If he doesn't feel criticized, you may find that he learns to enjoy and appreciate those moments. When he recognizes and accepts how much they mean to you, basking in the way you praise him and value him for taking that time for you, he might start to pursue those moments on his own eventually.

As far as his "What will YOU do to fix our marriage?" I can see that as a couple of things. He might be genuinely feeling a lack of something in the marriage too. If he won't tell you, you can't obsess over finding it. That's his responsibility if he wants to carry it inside himself. He may be saying it because he doesn't want to feel guilty/blamed for the marriage taking a wrong turn, and wants you to acknowledge that you're part of the problem, too. You can do this by answering that you'll be more fair... and recognize him for who he is and not who you think he should be.

You've reached a point where you don't want that touch from him. You've mentally checked out, and that's fine if you are going to leave. But if you decide you want to keep your family intact and get through this, you'll have to not just tolerate, but look for reasons to have those touch moments and to enjoy them.


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## Jeff/BC

Redallover225 said:


> How do I know if ending the marriage is the right choice?


you can never know that. The future is uncertain by it's very nature. We all just make the best guesses we can and try to muddle along. What I can say, however, is that when someone is not getting their emotional needs met... sexually or any other way... then that person is going to become sick. A sick person does not make a good spouse or parent.


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## Jonathan35

Redallover225 said:


> I am 33 years old, and have been married to my husband for almost 9 years. We have three children, 8, 6 and 2 1/2. We met near my hometown, and ten months later, moved in together two hours away, to another state, closer to his family. My husband was never a very affectionate person. Our relationship was "normal" at the beginning. There was kissing, and hand-holding, and that "can't get enough" of eachother at first. But the affection quickly dwindled... and it never came back. I just assumed that it was a normal part of a long relationship....
> Fast forward 15 years from when we met. We live in a nice house, in a great area. He is a fantastic father to our kids, he treats me with respect and kindness. He helps me with household chores. He is still attractive, he's a hard worker and I am certain of his love for me and our family. But there is absolutely NO affection in our lives. He hasn't kissed me in about 14 and a half years (and I mean REALLY kissed). He doesn't hold my hand. He doesn't embrace or hug me. He doesn't even sit next to me on the couch in the evenings. He doesn't look at me when we have sex (although he never has looked at me during sex) and again... no kissing. I've never felt that he and I have ever really "made love". He doesn't tell me I'm beautiful, even though I know that I am attractive. He doesn't make me feel like I'm an important part of his life at all.
> We went to a couple marriage counseling appointments, and he admitted that he doesn't feel the need for affection in his life. I, however, desperately need it. I have felt so lonely for so long, and I miss someone needing me as much as I need them.
> We have talked about how I feel and what I need; he has said he will "try" to offer me affection.... without much done in that department. But I think I've reached a point in my life where I don't want it from him anymore. I love him, but I'm certainly NOT inlove with him. I find that kissing him would make me cringe. And holding him seems fake. I know that its not what he wants to do, and I want any affection I receive to be genuine. I want him to WANT to touch me.
> But if I leave him, where do I go? My family is in another state. I miss my family. I don't want to stay here anymore. Is it a horrible thing to want to end my seamlessly "perfect" marriage just because I don't feel physically loved? And because we have children, do I need to forget about my happiness to keep the "family" together? I'm so lost....I've already lost 15 pounds from stress (and the only compliment I got was, "your boobs are smaller"). I know our children can see that I'm unhappy. My husband says that I've always been "unhappy". How do I know if ending the marriage is the right choice?


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## Jonathan35

The bottom line is that, for whatever reason, your husband is not attracted to you. Many people live miserable, unhappy lives in this type of relationship. To understand how he feels and how difficult it would be to fix this, just think of a man you know that you are not attracted to at all. Now picture having to kiss and hug him. That sick feeling you get, that is how your husband feels about you. He'll never admit it but actions speak louder than words. You are young and still attractive. Don't waste the next few years of your life letting someone (friend, family member, therapist, etc.) try to convince you this can change. Could that same person ever convince you that you can be sexually attracted to a man you are not attracted to? Probably not. One day, a few years from now you will wake up on a Sunday morning (on a weekend your ex-husband has the kids) next to your new lover and have amazing sex and just a beautiful morning all around. It will be a happy feeling. Make things better. Kids are tough. Your children are suffering already. You may not know it but they are.


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## h5unhappy

Hi I am new to the board and am in a similar marriage. We have been married 14 years, 3 kids. We met, moved in together and got married within a year. We used to not be able to get enough of each other, now it feels like we are nothing more than room mates. He is a great dad, and provider, we never go out without the other, so to our friends, etc it seems we have the perfect marriage, so much so that people tell me they are jealous and wish they had our relationship (they obviously don't know the issues). We have not been intimate in honestly I don't remember. 6-10 months? I get a chaste kiss good night. That is it. I have told him that I need affection and just need to feel generally loved, countless times but nothing changes. He doesn't hold my hand, hug me, or show any love for me at all. when I am really feeling detached I will ask for a hug, which he obliges, how romantic. It makes me feel like an ugly person inside and out. I am not unattractive for my age, other men show interest, not that I have ever or would ever cheat, but it is nice to feel like you aren't undesireable. He does however point out my flaws which does nothing for my self esteem, from my cooking to even the way I laugh. He says he is kidding but I don't think it is funny. we used to joke around all the time which he pointed it out, but that was when I felt secure in our relationship, which I no longer do. I have thyroid problems which causes depression which I take medication for. I just don't know what to do, I don't want a divorce but I do want a real marriage. I know he isn't happy either but he won't tell me what he wants or needs from me. Like I said he knows what I need but just refuses to give it. It's like he looks at me with disdain, and sometimes it is just too much to bear. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks for letting me vent.


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## Bobby5000

I think there are some times that a raised voice is appropriate. You can change the language but I think the situation deserves something like this. You pick your arm on him and he gently moves away. 

"YOUR MISERABLE, COLD INSENSITIVE PIECE OF ****. YOU MEAN I HAVE TO F-ING BEG AND PLEAD TO HOLD THE HAND OF MY OWN HUSBAND. F YOU, F YOU, YOU MISERABLE PIECE OF ****. GET THE F OUT OF MY BEDROOM. NOW, NOW. " 

Before you make any dramatic changes, I think you need to convey your anger and disappointment at his attitude which I think are appropriate here. Personally I feel better.


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## Serafina1

Hi, I just found this thread and I am in a very similar situation. Are you still in this situation?


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## Still Trying But losing

SadSamIAm said:


> I am sorry you are going through this Redallover225.
> 
> I am a man and in the same situation as you. I have no answer, I have tried to convey how important affection and physical touch is to me. My wife doesn't care and won't put in the effort.
> 
> I have been married for 24 years. We have everything most people would want. My children also know that I am not happy. I wish I would have left many years ago.
> 
> I am now at a point where I am either leaving this summer (after second daughter graduates) or in a couple of years (after our last child graduates). Or I will continue to live an empty existence and never have the balls to leave.
> 
> Wish I had an answer for you. Because I know the hell you are going through.


I have been reading post after post lately of persons (both male and female) involved in "perfect"marriages. Except for no affection or attention. And if there is, it is all a one sided effort. They are desperate to make it work. Committed. 
I am a male and as you suspect, in a sexless relationship. And yes, I would die for her. But it is hollowing me out. When I reach out and the response is feeling "put on the back-burner". Days that have turned to weeks that turned to years of no kisses, sex or validation. My response to being rejected was I did put in more effort trying to "win back" the love of my life. I think it was best summed up in a post from a woman (who at that point was resentful and no longer wanted to be touched) " I want to be wanted". I need authenticity. I need genuineness. I need to matter. If sex alone was sufficient then a hook up or masterbation would suffice.
I have noticed a couple things as time has gone by that may prove relevant. Constantly asking, needing. I will say it. It is pathetic. Neediness is not sexy. You see, this is my third marriage. Same result each time. So at this point I have to take responsibility. Women LOVE to be doted on and made to feel they are a priority. So do men. Heck, who doesn't? But long term. It has proven disastrous. What needed to have happened is, I think, a mutual expression of needs. But then I always have felt that it was no longer a relationship but a business negotiation. After all, what about being there for each other? But then at least I would be standing up for yourself and saying "I am also important". And that IS sexy. So, I am starting with me. Clearing bills and debts. Going to the gym to build MY self esteem and self worthiness. Taking on hobbys like kayaking. Now here's the rub. If after all that she starts finding that interesting and sexy. How am I going to feel about her? If the old me was not worth the effort but the new is arousing, how am I going to feel about that? There is precedence. Early on in the relationship when it was new and the sex was good I changed jobs. It was a brutal transition. I weighed in at 254 pounds and flabby. The new job was all up and down stairs carrying heavy items. In 30 days I dropped 30 lbs. And what was left was tight and ripped. This happened pretty quick. Now here's the point. The pretty good sex became AMAZING sex, and she was all over me. It was years before she mentioned this and I even thought back on it. The problem may then be simple boredom. But that does raise another problem. After all, if I needed to "fix up the place" before anyone is interested than Don't I deserve a comparable effort? Will I be satisfied with her every day? If she is worthy of, and requires that level of effort and that is her requirement of me than I am pretty certain I am going to want a comparable commitment of expression from her. But honestly, doesn't my blue chip relationship then itself become fairly mundane and off the rack? Because what I continually am hearing and reading is: (and I did this myself) Marriage partners willing to take courses together. Go to counseling together, go to the gym together. What I keep hearing is one either wants an easy "you do all the emotionally heavy lifting" or they are simply checked out and don't want or think they ought to put in the effort themselves. Let me know what you think.


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