# What's with all the rules?!



## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

So my wife and I are in our 40's. Married for a decade and 2 younger children. The sex was never awesome, but there's a couple of times I can't forget about. Anyway... shes got all these mood killing rules for sex (coupled with a snotty tone in her voice, unintentionally). The rules as I call em are things like when she says "dont push legs back, I dont like it". "No, I dont wanna be on top". "Slow down, will ya?! ", "ouch! Your on my hair!!!!!"

And on and on... 

Anyway... were in a sexless marriage. She claims to have a high sex drive, and I do to... but there's no sex in this house, that's for sure. She teases all the time, tells me tomorrow night is "me and you" time... but she never makes the move.

Mentally i can't get past the rules... I get it. Everyone has their own way of enjoying sex. But it's never natural with her. It's always disconnected, and disconnected sex doesnt have an emotional connection with me. I want to enjoy her and her body. But she seems emotionless and bored when we do have sex. I'd love to please her like she wants, but what the hell is left to do when shes got 47 rules about this and that I have to follow. 

Help!


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Him said:


> So my wife and I are in our 40's. Married for a decade and 2 younger children. The sex was never awesome, but there's a couple of times I can't forget about. Anyway... shes got all these mood killing rules for sex (coupled with a snotty tone in her voice, unintentionally). The rules as I call em are things like when she says "dont push legs back, I dont like it". "No, I dont wanna be on top". "Slow down, will ya?! ", "ouch! Your on my hair!!!!!"
> 
> And on and on...
> 
> ...



oh God, don't use the term 'forced'. People will come out of the woodwork to attack you on that as being a controlled freak but you aren't. If the sex was never awesome but yet she has a 'high sex drive', then you need to discover where the problem is. It is a hypocrisy on her part. That's on her to not explain or work on things. I get it. You didn't change. Did she or did she not ? Almost 90% of the guys I know say 'sex' takes a downturn when you get married. But it sounds like this was a problem beforehand.

The question is what happened and that's where your focus needs to be. 

1) Did she change or get comfortable ?
2)Was she always this way but you didn't realize it until after you got married ?
3) Is she cheating ?


More explanation please


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Have you ever told her what you just told us?

Is it possible your a bad bed partner?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Him said:


> Anyway... were in a sexless marriage. She claims to have a high sex drive, and I do to... but there's no sex in this house, that's for sure. She teases all the time, tells me tomorrow night is "me and you" time... but she never makes the move.



So is your marriage "sexless" because YOU never make the move when she doesn't...?
Do you ever remind her that it's supposed to be "me and you time" right now?

I mean, I'd rather have bad sex than NO sex, that's for sure!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Maybe a sex therapist could help. Or just enjoy the moment for yourself. IDK if she is willing to try and or possibly shut down all together. But you could answer some of the questions 
Asked already?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

People who are into having sex with each other *don't* have these "rules" intruding into their actual acts such as you describe. 

I suggest she's really not that into sex with you. It doesn't have to be anything you did or didn't do, either, as I'm sure some posters will try to tell you.

What's with all the rules? Lack of passion and engagement on her part, and not necessarily YOUR fault it's not there.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

If she’s that picky talk to her about it and have her take control once a week. This way she can tell you what she wants or she will just do it. This way you can learn what she likes. 

I think you just need to have a conversation with her because it sounds like you both want a good sex life but aren’t on the same page about what you guys like.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

I dont think she changed. Shes always been short tempered and very direct. Brutally honest. I I shes just as uncomfortably comfortable as I am with the whole thing. Shes always been this way, but theres never been a pause in the sex iike there is now. It's just always been bad sex, up up until now, now theres no sex.

It's possible I'm bad in bed, but I've never encountered this problem before. I've had girls that couldn't stay off of me, so this is totally new to me. Theres just no passion, no sexual chemistry. I dont know what to do.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Sometimes I do remind her. But I work a lot and work hard. By the time we have time without the kids, she says its "too late"... sometimes she gets snotty with me for no other reason than just reminding her.... reminding her about our "me and you time"... the tone she takes with me doesn't make me feel wanted or important. In 10 years of marriage, I've told her MANY, MANY, MANY times... she doesn't change her attitude. Is it better now than it was the first year... yeah. But the *****y tone she takes with me, makes me want to shut down. Sure, she tells me she wants to kiss more... she tells me she likes it slow.... but the *****y snotty tone she takes with me just makes me shut right down!


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Girl power...Your right on! But what conversation can i have have with someone who talkes to me like I'm a constant burden, that I haven't had before? Whose constantly snotty with me? With someone where I can do no right? I feel utterly disrespected most of the time. She never puts me up... my wife is the best roommate I never wanted. And it sucks.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She doesn't see you as a man or mate in a sexual sense at all.

You're a friend, roommate, provider.

What type of work do you do?

What kind of shape are you in?

What type of shape is she in?

Does she work outside the home?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Him said:


> So my wife and I are in our 40's. Married for a decade and 2 younger children. The sex was never awesome, but there's a couple of times I can't forget about.


Has it continued to be the same "not great" as it was in the beginning or has it gotten worse? If the sex was not great, what was it about her that made you want to get married?



Him said:


> Anyway... shes got all these mood killing rules for sex (coupled with a snotty tone in her voice, unintentionally). The rules as I call em are things like when she says "dont push legs back, I dont like it". "No, I dont wanna be on top". "Slow down, will ya?! ", "ouch! Your on my hair!!!!!"
> 
> And on and on...


I don't see these as rules. I see them as her telling you what she does and does not like. Do you keep doing these things after she's asked you not to do them?



Him said:


> Anyway... were in a sexless marriage. She claims to have a high sex drive, and I do to... but there's no sex in this house, that's for sure. She teases all the time, tells me tomorrow night is "me and you" time... but she never makes the move.


How often do you have sex now? What was it before and when did that drop happen?



Him said:


> Mentally i can't get past the rules... I get it. Everyone has their own way of enjoying sex. But it's never natural with her. It's always disconnected, and disconnected sex doesnt have an emotional connection with me. I want to enjoy her and her body. But she seems emotionless and bored when we do have sex. I'd love to please her like she wants, but what the hell is left to do when shes got 47 rules about this and that I have to follow.
> 
> Help!


I might have an answer for you if you get a minute to answer the questions.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Him said:


> Sometimes I do remind her. But I work a lot and work hard. By the time we have time without the kids, she says its "too late"... sometimes she gets snotty with me for no other reason than just reminding her.... reminding her about our "me and you time"... the tone she takes with me doesn't make me feel wanted or important. In 10 years of marriage, I've told her MANY, MANY, MANY times... she doesn't change her attitude. Is it better now than it was the first year... yeah. But the *****y tone she takes with me, makes me want to shut down. *Sure, she tells me she wants to kiss more... she tells me she likes it slow.... but the *****y snotty tone she takes with me just makes me shut right down!*


Okay, so she's telling you exactly what she wants from you and you are ignoring her. You're telling her what you need from her and she's ignoring you too. You're at an impasse and neither of you is willing to give an inch. 

Since you're the one that is here asking for advice I'm going to tell you to break the impasse. Give her more kisses and take things slow. Do the things she's telling you she wants in order to make sex good for her. You just might find that she's more willing to have sex when you do the things she likes in bed. 

Sounds like her tone is something that's part of her personality (she's always had it but it's gotten better over time). I can't guarantee that'll automatically stop the snotty tone but at least you'll be having more sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Are you sure your tone is good? She may just be responding to you that way because she has explained how she wants to be touched and approached and you don’t do it. If your approach is too blunt for her, she’s gonna get snotty after trying to tell you that a bunch of times.

Is she snotty in general? Are you blunt in general? It seems that maybe you have annoyed her to the point that she just expects to be annoyed.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well it sounds like you aren't taking her suggestions as to how to make sex pleasurable for her. If you never had any orgasms and your partner was pulling your hair you probably would rather sleep than participate. You also probably wouldn't initate. I don't know what else is going on in your relationship but it doesn't really sound like you listen to her. What age are your kids. She maybe a walk away wife in a few years.


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## Rooster2015 (Jun 12, 2015)

I am thinking you will have think out of the box. Both of you are losing right now. Forsure you are not connecting to her emotional side. You have to do that first before she is going to respect you. Slove that first and dont hound her about sex until you connect. Then do it her way and not complain. Build from there.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Sounds like the opposite situation that I have. I'll do anything but my husband has a million rules. I'm afraid to even try anything that I've already done with other guys. I guess I'm supposed to be happy with once a month boring sex. I can't even do oral on him!!! With other guys it was like pushing my head down! I don't get it.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I saw you thread as soon as you started it, and I had a lot to say. However, being a woman, I decided to wait until some men posted to you to make sure I was on the right track.

Is it that difficult to not lay on/pull her hair, push her legs back so far, slow down, not make her be on top when she doesn't want to be, not hurt her?

If I told my husband what I liked and didn't like, and he kept doing things I didn't like, I'd think he was a total OAF in bed, and would lose interest. 

It sounds like you are a lousy lover. Or maybe you are selfish.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

When is the last time you made sex about her....all about her.......nothing but her start to finish? 

Give her a massage ?

Bath her in the shower ?

Understand where I’m going?

You have to make it a sensory enduldgement for her. Get to the point where she is expecting and wanting that. Find pleasure in pleasing her and eventually she may turn the tables and enjoy pleasing you.

Y’all have 2 young kids ...... she is also worn out from mommy mode.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Adelais said:


> I saw you thread as soon as you started it, and I had a lot to say. However, being a woman, I decided to wait until some men posted to you to make sure I was on the right track.
> 
> Is it that difficult to not lay on/pull her hair, push her legs back so far, slow down, not make her be on top when she doesn't want to be, not hurt her?
> 
> ...


But could be something else going on. My wife insists that she doesn't like being "clamped" by my arms during sex. Thing is, she says that whether my arms are tightened around her or sometimes not touching her at all! I question her about this all the time, but her answers are at odds with the reality. On the other hand, it's pretty much this one specific thing with my wife, while OP apparently has a whole book of things he's doing wrong. But it is possible that his wife doesn't see the possibility of him not doing pretty much everything wrong. 



Mr.Married said:


> When is the last time you made sex about her....all about her.......nothing but her start to finish?
> 
> Give her a massage ?
> 
> ...


This can absolutely help the relationship but it remains possible his wife will not draw a connection between all those things and sex. This... I know. Unfortunately from direct experience. I do think it helps lay the groundwork for things to get better, but it may take marriage counseling to get there.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It sounds like there is no romance in your marriage which reduces sex to just the mechanical aspects.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

This reminds me of something...
When I was with my exH he use to have sex to my body. He would do whatever felt good to him. And I felt like he was oblivious to my “subtle” hints of wanting something or not wanting something. It felt like a robot was just having sex with me for no care In the world to how I was feeling. He wasn’t in tuned to me. 

I waited till marriage to have sex so he was my first. The first time I slept with a man after my divorce I almost cried because it was such a nice experience and I was so sad that I missed that for so many years. My new man had sex WITH me. He picked up or sensed my mood and feelings and body gestures. It felt so loving. And it’s hard to explain how much sadness it brought me because this man and I didn’t love each other, and I FELT more love from him than I had with my exH who I knew loved me. 

It’s really hard to explain. But with my ex it was like he had these moves in his head or he knew what he wanted to do so he just did them. Period. I could have been anybody and it made me feel terrible.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> This reminds me of something...
> When I was with my exH he use to have sex to my body. He would do whatever felt good to him. And I felt like he was oblivious to my “subtle” hints of wanting something or not wanting something. It felt like a robot was just having sex with me for no care In the world to how I was feeling. He wasn’t in tuned to me.
> 
> I waited till marriage to have sex so he was my first. The first time I slept with a man after my divorce I almost cried because it was such a nice experience and I was so sad that I missed that for so many years. My new man had sex WITH me. He picked up or sensed my mood and feelings and body gestures. It felt so loving. And it’s hard to explain how much sadness it brought me because this man and I didn’t love each other, and I FELT more love from him than I had with my exH who I knew loved me.
> ...


Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I just want you to know I understand EXACTLY what you are talking about - this happened to me when I was with my husband after how my ex treated me sexually...it took months for me not to be so moved by what loving sex felt like (in my heart) and cry after, when he was asleep!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Adelais said:


> I saw you thread as soon as you started it, and I had a lot to say. However, being a woman, I decided to wait until some men posted to you to make sure I was on the right track.
> 
> Is it that difficult to not lay on/pull her hair, push her legs back so far, slow down, not make her be on top when she doesn't want to be, not hurt her?
> 
> ...


There is probably more going on here.

Without more interaction with OP, it is really hard to determine the details.

I am getting a different read on this but we can't know if OP won't interact with us and having to defend himself immediately from being called a lousy lover is probably less than helpful.

Maybe his technique does need to improve but it really sounds like she is critical of everything and I suspect more serious relationship problems than just a one sided, inconsiderate lover.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Wrote a book for you: The Dead Bedroom Fix.

Enjoy!


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Ask her if you can have a girlfriend on the side......One who enjoys your company. What do you have to lose, really?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I just want you to know I understand EXACTLY what you are talking about - this happened to me when I was with my husband after how my ex treated me sexually...it took months for me not to be so moved by what loving sex felt like (in my heart) and cry after, when he was asleep!!


Yes, and the way I’m reading his words, he does not talk about trying to make love to her or be at all mindful of what she actually wants. Some men just are not very passionate or loving about sex.

OTOH, if his wife is actually like casual observers wife, then the problem isn’t going to change.

On yet another hand, she may just be in that phase when sex is not desired due to so many kids. If so, then it may change.

My guess, based on his words, is that the husband is probably not following what would actually work for her.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

dadstartingover said:


> Wrote a book for you: The Dead Bedroom Fix.
> 
> Enjoy!


Can you explain why this one is better than MMSL/No More Mr Nice Guy/Hold onto your N.U.T.S./W.H.Y. ? What makes your book more viable than all of those, and more likely to succeed? No, offence, but there's a metric ****-tonne of books of this sort get trailed on here, so what discriminates yours?


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Sawney Beane said:


> Can you explain why this one is better than MMSL/No More Mr Nice Guy/Hold onto your N.U.T.S./W.H.Y. ? What makes your book more viable than all of those, and more likely to succeed? No, offence, but there's a metric ****-tonne of books of this sort get trailed on here, so what discriminates yours?


I can only comment on No More Mr. Nice Guy (which I recommend in my book and on my website... it's the perfect companion to the DB Fix). The others I have not read. Even if I had, my opinion, as the author, is obviously biased and what book is "better" is completely subjective. I'm sure they all have value in their own way. I recommend you check out reviews from others who have read the book: Click here for Amazon listing.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

dadstartingover said:


> I can only comment on No More Mr. Nice Guy (which I recommend in my book and on my website... it's the perfect companion to the DB Fix). The others I have not read. Even if I had, my opinion, as the author, is obviously biased and what book is "better" is completely subjective. I'm sure they all have value in their own way. I recommend you check out reviews from others who have read the book: Click here for Amazon listing.


With the greatest respect, getting just over half a dozen positive reviews is no big deal. A smart author can generate that on his own. If it's good, you can sell why it's good here. Let's be frank - there a people on here who (if it really is as good as you say) really ought to be willing to TAKE YOUR HAND OFF to buy it. So sell it, as opposed to having them buy MMSL et al.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

Stop the thread jack. If you want to have a discussion or challenge someone about books, do it in a separate thread. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> On yet another hand, she may just be in that phase when sex is not desired due to so many kids. If so, then it may change.


 Or maybe she's just a checked out frickin' *****. It has some signs of her stepping out as well. 

1 supposedly high drive but dead bedroom.
2 Belittling OP
3 Doesn't initiate after she starts the tease


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its difficult to tell from a a post, but is sex uncomfortable for her? Are you on her hair? Depending on what "push legs back" means, maybe that is uncomfortable on her back? Are you going too fast before she is aroused enough .

Not accusing - just saying that the words you wrote could be interpreted as your not paying attention to what is comfortable for her. 

If you just do everything she wants, does she enjoy sex? I'm not saying that sex should be one sided just for her, but it seems an important piece of information. 

How wide a range of sexual activities does she enjoy? Does she usually get an O at some point during a lovemaking session?





Him said:


> So my wife and I are in our 40's. Married for a decade and 2 younger children. The sex was never awesome, but there's a couple of times I can't forget about. Anyway... shes got all these mood killing rules for sex (coupled with a snotty tone in her voice, unintentionally). The rules as I call em are things like when she says "dont push legs back, I dont like it". "No, I dont wanna be on top". "Slow down, will ya?! ", "ouch! Your on my hair!!!!!"
> 
> And on and on...
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Or maybe she's just a checked out frickin' *****. It has some signs of her stepping out as well.
> 
> 1 supposedly high drive but dead bedroom.
> 2 Belittling OP
> 3 Doesn't initiate after she starts the tease


It's going to be hard to tell anything without more input from OP but he might have been shoved too hard in one direction.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> *I mean, I'd rather have bad sex than NO sex, that's for sure!*


*Not me! I want it as mutually enjoyable as possible!

But with all of these imposed sexual caveats of hers, I'd say that y'all are fastly in need of a good sex therapist!*


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Her tone has always been a problem. Shes that way to everyone, for any reason. Tbh, shes working on it. The sex was never awesome cause of her tone. We used to have sex at least weekly.. Now, its once maybe every 6 months.

Some of you have picked up on there have to be other things going on... and there are. I tell her all the time to be softer, and sweeter... dont try to be in control all the time. Quit being such a hard ass. But it doesnt work. I'm am attractive. Not overweight. Spend a few years in the military, and I stay in shape, more than she does. Shes not obese, but has about 30 pounds to loose according to her. I've tried numerous times to get us to diet together work out together... and she gets in lazy mode and quits. Shes a great mom and and wonderful spouse. She cleans, she cooks, she takes great care of us as a family... but when it comes to emotional sex, FORGET ABOUT IT!!!


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Adelais said:


> I saw you thread as soon as you started it, and I had a lot to say. However, being a woman, I decided to wait until some men posted to you to make sure I was on the right track.
> 
> Is it that difficult to not lay on/pull her hair, push her legs back so far, slow down, not make her be on top when she doesn't want to be, not hurt her?
> 
> ...


Wha I say push her legs back, I mean when shes on her back, get what I mean? Well... wtf!!! Where else are your legs supposed to go?! 

I've told her before to show me what she wants, she said she has... like I say. This isnt a problem that I've had before. This is a problem specific to US.

Is it that much trouble not to do all those things? No, I guess not. Her attitude and snottyness has me checked out of the bedroom. Sex for me is a vulnerable place and the last place I was to be treated like crap, is in the bedroom. That's what your not getting. I have a hard time doing all these rules for her while she gets to be snotty and b****y to me when that moment is supposed to be soft, sexual and romantic.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I hate to say this but I think we have a tendency to overthink threads like this one on here. Some say she might be cheating, others speculate the OP is too rough or insensitive. Thats almost never what I read in posts like the OP. From what I am reading, she has always been this way. He may have had sex more frequently, but she was always the same in bed. I think the OP was okay with it when it was at least happening more frequently, but now not so much. I am not sure there is a fix for it, this is how she always was, and how she always will be. Its been two decades. In a way its almost unfair to expect her to change. I don't see a bait and switch here. As for her rules, it certainly wouldn't work for me, and the fact that she even notices these things while engaging in such a passionate act suggests that she really isn't into it at all. Its up to the OP what he wants to do about it. Some decide they love their spouse enough to look past it. Others will slowly die over time if they stay. He should of course discuss his feelings with her, but I feel its unlikely to change anything.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Rubix Cubed said:
> 
> 
> > Or maybe she's just a checked out frickin' *****. It has some signs of her stepping out as well.
> ...


I hope your wrong on that. I can't see her stepping out. Shes an incredibly honest person, which is one reason I'm bewildered about our bedtime problems. However, I will 100% agree with what you said... "he might have been shoved too hard in one direction" and that's exactly right. I have. Been shoved out of the bedroom. By her attitude and "rules" ... by how uncomfortable she's made sex for us.

So now what? Have the same conversations weve already had and make no progress like weve already done? I feel that if her attitude was better then the sex would follow... maybe I'm wrong. I dont know.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to say this but I think we have a tendency to overthink threads like this one on here. Some say she might be cheating, others speculate the OP is too rough or insensitive. Thats almost never what I read in posts like the OP. From what I am reading, she has always been this way. He may have had sex more frequently, but she was always the same in bed. I think the OP was okay with it when it was at least happening more frequently, but now not so much. I am not sure there is a fix for it, this is how she always was, and how she always will be. Its been two decades. In a way its almost unfair to expect her to change. I don't see a bait and switch here. As for her rules, it certainly wouldn't work for me, and the fact that she even notices these things while engaging in such a passionate act suggests that she really isn't into it at all. Its up to the OP what he wants to do about it. Some decide they love their spouse enough to look past it. Others will slowly die over time if they stay. He should of course discuss his feelings with her, but I feel its unlikely to change anything.




Nailed it!!!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Him said:


> Her tone has always been a problem. Shes not to everyone, for any reason. Tbh, shes working on it. The sex was never awesome cause of her tone. We used to have sex at least weekly..
> Now, its once maybe every 6 months.


Ouch.....that is one HELL of a long time. That is way past the clinical definition of sexless marriage. After it gets that bad... I don’t know what to say. Lots of guys in your shoes here. They can tell you about it better than I can and what may or may not help.

I do know this. If I were in your shoes I would first try everything I could think of including professional help. If that didn’t work I’d simply let her know I would start getting it somewhere else if all she wants is a room mate and check book.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I think the rules might be a symptom of her not enjoying it, maybe because she has lost confidence in herself.

Does she come up with every excuse in the book when it is close to bed time? All of sudden the headaches start, not feeling well, feeling tired, and then go to bed and text away for two hours.

Sex every six months rounds to zero, you are not having sex. She is your roommate and you are her punching bag.

You can't fix her, she has to do that, so just work on yourself.

What happens if you were to initiate sex, like tonight? Flat out rejection?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Him said:


> Her tone has always been a problem. Shes that way to everyone, for any reason. Tbh, shes working on it. The sex was never awesome cause of her tone. We used to have sex at least weekly.. Now, its once maybe every 6 months.
> 
> Some of you have picked up on there have to be other things going on... and there are. I tell her all the time to be softer, and sweeter... dont try to be in control all the time. Quit being such a hard ass. But it doesnt work. I'm am attractive. Not overweight. Spend a few years in the military, and I stay in shape, more than she does. Shes not obese, but has about 30 pounds to loose according to her. I've tried numerous times to get us to diet together work out together... and she gets in lazy mode and quits. Shes a great mom and and wonderful spouse. She cleans, she cooks, she takes great care of us as a family... but when it comes to emotional sex, FORGET ABOUT IT!!!


So when did things go from 1 per week to 1 per six months?


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

things went once per week to once per 6 months probably about 3 years ago when the 2nd child showed up. 

I never hear any other excuse other than I'm tired/its too late. Not sure what would happen if I initiated in the middle of the day. I suppose shed oblige... but here we go again with the passionless sex. I dont want sex from just anyone. I want a romantic connection with her!! I guess that's too much to ask. I've wondered before if shes looking for a roommate and a checkbook. I haven't ruled that out. Absent a romantic connection, what else am I supposed to think?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

It’s been my experience (being married twice) that once the flame goes out, it’s out for good. As much as you what to change the dynamic, sex is not important for her to change. Any change would be faking it anyway on her part. You either live with it or you leave. Personally, I’m not living with it.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

When I talk to guys about their dead bedroom, I'd say 90% of the time I hear, "It started after our kid was born". Kids can just KILL the sexiness in a marriage. 

"Your instinctual urge to procreate and look after the well-being of a little human is in direct contradiction to your urge to keep a sexual relationship going. The two don’t work in tandem, they work against each other. Being a parent is the antithesis of being a sexual being. Being a parent is being a super Provider, not a Lover."

https://dadstartingover.com/kids/


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

From info provided I can't put this on OP as being a terrible lover.

My assumption, yes I know, but; is that OPs wife hasn't done the verbal negativity tone of voice during love making just once making OP rush right out to a forum for advice.

But

That his Wife has done this many, many, many times, and tone of voice plus negatively couching of directions plus not listening when OP has tried to communicate he will certainly do this that and if she'd kindly be passionately constructive in further direction giving.

But his W is hyper critical of all acts, means, methods, and there just isn't a finish line of her criticisms. It's a never ending diatribe. 

I'd bet OP has tried a lot of things already before feeling he has to "go outside" to a forum to check his sanity among others.

I get the sense he's been beaten down in a race he just can't win, refereed by a W that keeps moving the goal posts, so to speak.

I could be wrong, perhaps more info is coming, we'll perhaps see.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Him said:


> things went once per week to once per 6 months probably about 3 years ago when the 2nd child showed up.
> 
> I never hear any other excuse other than I'm tired/its too late. Not sure what would happen if I initiated in the middle of the day. I suppose shed oblige... but here we go again with the passionless sex. I dont want sex from just anyone. I want a romantic connection with her!! I guess that's too much to ask. I've wondered before if shes looking for a roommate and a checkbook. I haven't ruled that out. Absent a romantic connection, what else am I supposed to think?


Have you ever had a romantic connection with her? Has she ever been into you and the sex? I'm just trying to figure out what exactly you can try to work back towards.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> From info provided I can't put this on OP as being a terrible lover.
> 
> My assumption, yes I know, but; is that OPs wife hasn't done the verbal negativity tone of voice during love making just once making OP rush right out to a forum for advice.
> 
> ...


Yes!! Yes on all counts!!! I know I'm not free from guilt... I could try more... but you said it best!!! So how do I get her to change her tone with me?! I know that'll segways into lots of road repair with us.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Lila said:


> Him said:
> 
> 
> > things went once per week to once per 6 months probably about 3 years ago when the 2nd child showed up.
> ...


Lila, I think so. Theres been few moments where I can call it great sex... connection made. Sure. I think there were times she was into me. I suspect we just pulled away from each other sexually. Me, because of her tone and criticism, her because I wouldn't adhere to her rules.

But this sucks. Were at the scene of the accident and the ambulance is nowhere to be found.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Him said:


> Lila, I think so. Theres been few moments where I can call it great sex... connection made. Sure. I think there were times she was into me. I suspect we just pulled away from each other sexually. Me, because of her tone and criticism, her because I wouldn't adhere to her rules.
> 
> But this sucks. Were at the scene of the accident and the ambulance is nowhere to be found.


Do you recall what was going on in your relationship when you had those connected moments?

I think that if you want to reconnect, you're going to have to make the first move. This means working through your resentment and actually doing things her way for a while. See if that helps then reassess.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So Hiim, why do you want to have sex with her at all? Is it just to get off? If it is literally impossible to make a connection with her, why do you even want to try? I hope my question makes sense and makes you think.

Bottom line is that if she is never going to want to connect, you will have to decide if this is how you want to live your life or not. The situation does not sound like one where there can be any improvement, if things are the way you say they are.

But seriously for your own dignity, you should not want to have sex with someone who treats you this way and doesn’t want to connect with you.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

I think there are four things at play...

1) in my experience, there is a correlation between level of attraction and what, during sex, is distracting or off-putting. One day, having hot sweaty sex after you both workout is sexy then the next, she finds it absolutely disgusting. Same for shower sex. When you’re just not into it, you will focus on detractors instead. Nothing wrong with that but if not discussed lovingly leads to resentment.

2) romance and strong connection are frequently replaced with practicality, routine and comfort. OP mentioned she’s HD but if she’s got a thousand non-sex things in her head and she’s horny, it’s about getting off and off to the next thing. You both simply have different expectations.

3) I’ve also found that rules and boundaries settings can also be symptoms of emotional/intimacy avoidance. My wife loves sex but talking about it is verboten and according to her a huge turnoff. Means sex is more physical than emotional. She was floored when I said it feels like she’s using me to masturbate but the evidence was pretty clear.

4) domesticity in married men is a libido killer (see Ester Perel’s book Mating in Captivity).

Definitely need a MC/sex therapist. You either aren’t great in bed or she has something else going. There is a fine line between articulating likes/dislikes and what can be construed as controlling you in the bedroom. The latter can be a symptom of avoiding vulnerability.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Lila said:


> Him said:
> 
> 
> > Lila, I think so. Theres been few moments where I can call it great sex... connection made. Sure. I think there were times she was into me. I suspect we just pulled away from each other sexually. Me, because of her tone and criticism, her because I wouldn't adhere to her rules.
> ...


I do not recall what was going on at the time. Working through resentment sounds easier than done. I'm a professional grudge holder and will hold on to bitterness well past what you would consider normal. Arg! I hate working on me!



Faithful Wife said:


> So Hiim, why do you want to have sex with her at all? Is it just to get off? If it is literally impossible to make a connection with her, why do you even want to try? I hope my question makes sense and makes you think.
> 
> Bottom line is that if she is never going to want to connect, you will have to decide if this is how you want to live your life or not. The situation does not sound like one where there can be any improvement, if things are the way you say they are.
> 
> But seriously for your own dignity, you should not want to have sex with someone who treats you this way and doesn’t want to connect with you.


I think I understand what your saying about why... I love who she is and what she stands for. Like I've said, shes a wonderful person, devoted to her family. Except sex with me, and that's where I'm dumbfounded. I just want her to want me. Is that too much to ask?!



aaarghdub said:


> I think there are four things at play...
> 
> 1) in my experience, there is a correlation between level of attraction and what, during sex, is distracting or off-putting. One day, having hot sweaty sex after you both workout is sexy then the next, she finds it absolutely disgusting. Same for shower sex. When you’re just not into it, you will focus on detractors instead. Nothing wrong with that but if not discussed lovingly leads to resentment.
> 
> ...


Very interesting perspective... she does have a controlling side of her that she swears doesn't exist. Maybe she's emotionally disconnecting with me, to control the bedroom frequency, because she's trying to avoid being vulnerable?

🤔🤔🤔🤔


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

For one reason or another, your wife is not relaxed when you two are trying to be intimate. There's a couple reasons for it.

1. She doesn't respect you so seeing your pleasure with her irritates her. When a woman respects her man, she goes through great lengths to make sure he is happy. Conversely, when she doesn't respect her man, everything he does irritates her.

2. She is worrier and never is able to fully relax, whether it be the kids coming in, the overcooked the dinner, laundry is done and needs to be folded...etc. Something in her mind isn't allowing her to enjoy your time together.

3. After years of telling you what to do in bed, you're not getting it so when she see's that you always get to finish and she doesn't, she's at the point where it just isn't worth it for her.

Take those three suggestions and figure out what you think it is. Then go to her and have a conversation about it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’m going to go the simple route. Have you tried a six pack of Budweiser? No I’m not joking. My wife can go from innocent angel to stripper boots in 2.3 beers or 1.2 Pear Martinis. 

You might be surprised how much resentment you can “let go of” in one hot passionate round. They are always ready to talk after while still floating on the hormone train.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> It’s been my experience (being married twice) that once the flame goes out, it’s out for good. As much as you what to change the dynamic, sex is not important for her to change. Any change would be faking it anyway on her part. You either live with it or you leave. Personally, I’m not living with it.


This is SO true in so many cases. Self help books aren't going to change it, nor is therapy. For some people, the flame simply goes out and that's THAT.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is SO true in so many cases. Self help books aren't going to change it, nor is therapy. For some people, the flame simply goes out and that's THAT.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Him said:


> I do not recall what was going on at the time. Working through resentment sounds easier than done. I'm a professional grudge holder and will hold on to bitterness well past what you would consider normal. Arg! I hate working on me!


This here is the answer, you summed it up in a few sentences. All points to you and your bitterness and grudge manipulations. And you should not be blaming her because as you said your the King of bitterness/grudges, you have pushed so much that you only want to see things your way only. And to hell with anyone or anything else. You do need some IC and to find way to cope when things don't go as you think they should. Period!!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Him said:
> 
> 
> > I do not recall what was going on at the time. Working through resentment sounds easier than done. I'm a professional grudge holder and will hold on to bitterness well past what you would consider normal. Arg! I hate working on me!
> ...


Tilted, thank you for saying what you said. For me. It hit home. I am the same way and a year in IC hasn’t changed me all that much, because I haven’t changed. I am still bitter and hold grudges, 3 years later. I need to work on this more. Your post hit home and I thank you for that.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Here's one of your big problems: "How can I make"

You can't MAKE her do ANYTHING. She either wants to change and improve or she doesn't. If she's been "working" on her tone for years, it's never going to change because no actual work is being done. The only person you can change is yourself and hope she might respond to that.

If you really think IC for you and working on your grudges will help and has a chance of turning this around, go for it. But honestly, I have to wonder what you really expect when she has always had this tone with you during sex. You can't expect her to be someone she's not. So figure out if more frequent sex is enough and strive for it but this goal you have of her transforming herself into a soft, sensitive lover is completely unrealistic. And if you believe you can't be happy without a more sensitive, engaged partner, work on freeing yourself from this marriage so that you can find that partner. Find your lines in the sand now so that if you still find yourself unhappy 6 months or more from now, you can start implementing that change for yourself.

Truthfully, being a good wife and mother isn't rare. You could throw a rock around here and hit a woman who meets those qualifications. And really, you're not that wonderful of a wife if you ignore your husband's needs for intimacy, dismiss his pain and frustration, and talk down to him during sex. I think what you mean is a good HOMEMAKER but not necessarily a good wife if she neglects her responsibilities as a good partner to you.

You might benefit from reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. It deals specifically with men who hold grudges over not having their nice behavior reciprocated by their partners. It might get you to see your grudges in a different light and give you ways to reach indifference which will empower you in getting your marriage back on track or being able to call it quits.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Mybabysgotit said:


> For one reason or another, your wife is not relaxed when you two are trying to be intimate. There's a couple reasons for it.
> 
> 1. She doesn't respect you so seeing your pleasure with her irritates her. When a woman respects her man, she goes through great lengths to make sure he is happy. Conversely, when she doesn't respect her man, everything he does irritates her.
> 
> ...


I think your right. A lack of respect. I by no means am a push over... but shes bossy and I believe she struggles to release the reigns. I am a laid back, go with the flow kinda guy... and maybe she takes my "kindness for weakness"?



Mr.Married said:


> I’m going to go the simple route. Have you tried a six pack of Budweiser? No I’m not joking. My wife can go from innocent angel to stripper boots in 2.3 beers or 1.2 Pear Martinis.
> 
> You might be surprised how much resentment you can “let go of” in one hot passionate round. They are always ready to talk after while still floating on the hormone train.


Been there, done that. The more she drinks, the less she wants sex! But just a couple, and the right setting... she might be into it. Worth a shot!



Tilted 1 said:


> Him said:
> 
> 
> > I do not recall what was going on at the time. Working through resentment sounds easier than done. I'm a professional grudge holder and will hold on to bitterness well past what you would consider normal. Arg! I hate working on me!
> ...


What an ignorant statement. So I guess I should deserve to be talked down during sex then huh? I shouldn't expect passion and love from being intimate with my wife. Great contribution. Thanks.



nekonamida said:


> Here's one of your big problems: "How can I make"
> 
> You can't MAKE her do ANYTHING. She either wants to change and improve or she doesn't. If she's been "working" on her tone for years, it's never going to change because no actual work is being done. The only person you can change is yourself and hope she might respond to that.
> 
> ...


Wow... way to break it down the the core. Leaving her is not an option. I'm not a quitter and if she never changes, then this will be what I deal with until I die. She gave me 2 kids and I met her with an attitude. She tries to change her tone. I'm not willing to trade her in for a different model. I chose her and I made a vow. Shes a great person, but like myself... shes got her flaws. I just want to try to improve our closeness. Interesting point about the homemaker though. I never thought about it that way. I think it's time for me to think deep and figure out how I'm going to approach this situation again. I'm not a fan of putting myself out there, but I guess I have no choice.

Thanks for your help.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

This may have been mentioned, if so I apologize: have you thought of recording her when you are being intimate so that you can play it back and let her hear herself? Ask her if she truly believes that any man would want to have sex with a woman who talks like that to her partner during intimacy. Ask her if she thinks she sounds loving and kind.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Him said:


> What an ignorant statement. So I guess I should deserve to be talked down during sex then huh? I shouldn't expect passion and love from being intimate with my wife. Great contribution. Thanks.
> 
> 
> .


You are showing exactly what l said, because of you being the king or bitterness and grudges. You are not able to see yourself anything but right. I didn't say you deserve to be talked down to in that manner. What l said is if you could see some flaws in yourself first, then correct them. Maybe your wife would be more understanding of you.

But when a person holds grudges and bitterness, they show a passive aggressive nature. And cannot understand why people don't see them as special. And expect people to be able to read their mind, so when it doesn't happen they hold on to bitterness and grudges. Then come the thoughts of why should I change. And it's not just when you have sex, but it's a buildup of how you interact with her the rest of the 23 hrs.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Maybe you are just a bad and inconsiderate lover. Time to see what you can do better because obviously you dont float her boat.


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## Him (Nov 12, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> This may have been mentioned, if so I apologize: have you thought of recording her when you are being intimate so that you can play it back and let her hear herself? Ask her if she truly believes that any man would want to have sex with a woman who talks like that to her partner during intimacy. Ask her if she thinks she sounds loving and kind.


If that doesnt do it, then what would?!?! Good idea!!! What I've realized here is that theres more to this than "what's with all the rules..." theres an emotional side that's not being addressed here. I appreciate all the responses here and at least know which direction to go in now. I have to start making an effort at fixing the emotional disconnection with us.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> This may have been mentioned, if so I apologize: have you thought of recording her when you are being intimate so that you can play it back and let her hear herself? Ask her if she truly believes that any man would want to have sex with a woman who talks like that to her partner during intimacy. Ask her if she thinks she sounds loving and kind.




Ooof.... sounds like bringing a gun to a knife fight. I initially snickered at this but I think he’d find this satisfying for a fleeting moment then she says “WTF!” That being said you can’t “shame” a partner into improving intimacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

aaarghdub said:


> Ooof.... sounds like bringing a gun to a knife fight. I initially snickered at this but I think he’d find this satisfying for a fleeting moment then she says “WTF!” That being said you can’t “shame” a partner into improving intimacy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The goal isn't to shame her. The goal is for her to actually hear how she comes across. She may think there is nothing wrong in how she talks to her husband or she may be appalled at how she sounds.

An example: Dr. Phil had a couple on the show where the husband had a problem with the wife talking baby talk and whining to get her way. When she heard how she actually sounded she was embarrassed and stopped that crap immediately. She admitted she had done it with her husband because it had always worked on her father.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> The goal isn't to shame her. The goal is for her to actually hear how she comes across. She may think there is nothing wrong in how she talks to her husband or she may be appalled at how she sounds.
> 
> An example: Dr. Phil had a couple on the show where the husband had a problem with the wife talking baby talk and whining to get her way. When she heard how she actually sounded she was embarrassed and stopped that crap immediately. She admitted she had done it with her husband because it had always worked on her father.


Outside of being on the television, has anybody ever recorded their partner like this, played it back and had any result other than a nuclear level of rage? Irrespective of whether the _goal_ is to shame the other partner or not, how do you get past that being how it's _perceived_?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Him, I would recommend counselling as individuals and as a couple.

Because clearly this situation cannot continue.


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## Lake life (Nov 18, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> @Him, I would recommend counselling as individuals and as a couple.
> 
> Because clearly this situation cannot continue.


 ^^ If you both give 100% , there’s a chance. Your wife is withholding sex and affection for control.
Been there , it’s miserable. 
I waited till the kids were about grown and divorced all my problems.
Good luck!


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