# An unselfish divorce?



## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

I have been dating a man who is cohabitating and co-parenting his two children with his ex. They have separate rooms, and separate lives. I have zero concerns that there is still love there beyond the kids. 
We are both very happy. I have an acquaintance relationship with his ex and his boys and I get along great, as do mine with his family. Seven months ago I moved in. Things have been wonderful. Don't get me wrong we had some issues with organization and cleaning, nothing your average communal house doesn't deal with. 
His family knows about me as do all his friends and coworkers. I attend gatherings with friends and for his work, but nothing with his family. Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter none of them. She still goes with him to all of these events. I was hoping at some point I would be attending these family social events too. We are building a life together. 
My question is this- Am I asking too much? I get that she attends for the kids ( who by the way are teenagers) I am not actually bothered that she attends, I'm bothered I don't. He knows I want to go and he tells me to have patience. However, if I am living with you and we are in the place we are, why do you need more time to have me attend these events? Thoughts?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It's important, especially if you are thinking pretty serious about things down the line, to start your own rituals and observances as a couple and potential marriage...or you risk becoming stuck in orbit around his preexisting family. Right now, there may or may not be a "definition" to the future of your relationship, but for it to progress any further, it needs to have a life of its own. 

I think it is great that you are gelling with his ex and his kids, but I think your growing concern of being on the outside of family gatherings is valid. I am not going to slam on someone who is trying to make things easy on the kids, but THEY aren't married anymore and I think your relationship between you and him ought to take preeminence, but many don't agree with that, especially if they feel guilty for divorcing with children. 

He says, be patient, but I think you at this stage deserve a plan. I don't think you ought to drop a bomb and force undue pressure on him, but it may take you having a very realistic look at the situation and see what you can tell what he is actually willing to do about it and what probably will never change...and then you need to decide if you can bear it or move along. Tough call.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

All I can say is that is pretty amazing, that you can all live in the same house together, and everybody is okay with it.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

What were the terms under which you moved in with him? Are you dating? Engaged? Moving seriously toward marriage? Or was it more of a casual arrangement, making it convenient to spend time together? Do you have children of your own living in this arrangement as well?

If the intention is that this is a pre-cursor to marriage, or some sort of permanent arrangement, then I think you need to make a solid boundary about this now. He needs to decide which of you is his primary partner. The problem really is that most invitations imply a +1. Not a +however many women are living with you at the time. 

To me it's concerning that he can't seem to tell either his children or his family that he and his ex are in fact, exes. Until he can manage to gather his courage to do that, you're always going to be second place. Does he have problems with confrontation in other areas of his life besides his romantic and familial relationships? How many other ways does he put his ex and her needs and wants ahead of yours? If you're living together out of convenience or timing or what have you, that's not a problem. If you're thinking that this is a long-term relationship though, his actions aren't matching his words.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't care how unselfish the divorce is, I think it's a bad idea for exes to continue living together unless they're actually trying to reconcile. Because it's too easy to end up in situations like this. Where no one is really moving on in a healthy way, and other new love interests are showing up to further cloud the picture for everyone, confuse the children and families, and add new layers of drama and hurt. 

OP, this situation is messy. It's likely to get more so. If this relationship is progressing to a long term commitment, I think you're going to have to sit down with him and figure out the long term plans for the living situation. Is he planning for you two to marry and still live in his marital home with his ex and their children? Does he envision gradually transitioning the ex into another house? What about the kids? Or will the two of you be buying a new house and moving out? Again, what about the kids? Is there already a property settlement and a custody order in place that addresses these type of concerns? If so, what kind of timeline does he imagine for your relationship and transitioning away from living with her?

Are you on board with what he has in mind? 

If the two of you can't negotiate these issues, then this isn't the relationship for you. He's already showing you that you aren't quite as much of a priority as his ex. If he isn't willing to do anything to remedy that, and you want more than what you currently have, you should run.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

How much interaction happens with his family? Do they live in the same town? As weird as it sounds does his family know he is divorced yet? They may be portraying an illusion to keep family peace for some reason.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I don't get why the parents are still living together??? 

I completely understand your feelings re the ex at the family events, and that you have no problem with her being there, your problem is that you're not - and you should be.

You need to address this now with your partner. Neither the ex, the kids or his family should get a vote on this.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

There's an awful lot wrong with this situation, and I don't see it getting better easily. Has he said WHY he doesn't want you at the family gatherings?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

Thank you everyone for chiming in. I've been busy with finals and was MIA for the last month. 
Let me answer some questions-

1. When I first moved in it was to be closer to my school. We were dating exclusively. However, over these 9 months our relationship has grown and we have made a commitment to each other. We have discussed marriage as a possibility in the future. Currently, I pay rent to help with expenses. 

2. He is a non confrontational individual. His ex rules the roost. She constantly complains that her boundaries are being crossed. We used to share in cooking responsibilities for the household and split the groceries down the middle. However recently she complained that she didn't like her fridge being so full, nor that I took up space in her pantry. All of my food has now been moved to another area. I decided to do this because I was sick of her complaints. Every time I attempted to discuss something with her she would start crying and shut the conversation down.

3. Her partner also lives in the home. Her partner does not pay rent and does not work. She pretty much plays online all day.

4. I have two boys, as well. They live here in the home except every other weekend when they go to their dads house. 

5. His family lives 45 minutes away. They are away that he and I are together. He expressed his love for me to them at a dinner several months back. Two family members pushed back. His sister and his other sisters husband, who happens to be a therapist. Although he shared that his marriage was over and he had moved on, he did not go into any detail. So the push back could be coming from the idea that they can reconcile. There is no reconciling happening. Four years ago, when they were still together she came to him and said she wanted to be poly. She never wanted one person to be responsible for her sexual happiness. He did not want this and they attempted therapy. He changed many things in the hopes of keeping his marriage but nothing worked. His wife continued to date others, spend increasing time away from the family home, and harbor a lot of anger towards him. He realized he no longer wanted to live this way with her and they agreed it was over. 

6. He says he plans on moving out in the next few years. Their kids are older and he can no longer keep living with her issues. He doesn't have definite plans yet. Their finances are still intertwined.

Recently, things have become worse for me. She has made a few comments about not wanting me here. Yet her partner lives here too. One comment was a strong suggestion that he move out with me and my boys.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

For someone to even date a person that's living with their ex (kids or no kids) is just bizarre IMO.

To progress the relationship AND move in WITH them is beyond bizarre.

Living with ANYONE is a big deal and has HUGE effects on life. I mean just the step kids alone can be pretty tough.....to put the Ex in there AND her parents......that's just crazy.


But that's just me.

If it works for you OP and you like it/are happy. That's all that matters!!!

Sorry but I don't have any other advice other than move out ASAP. Let your boyfriend decide if he wants to follow or not. Personally I would just end it with him all together.....not sure how you let this progress.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense, but none of you are acting logically, and I'm guessing you're messing up your kids more than if you just made clean and amicable breaks. 

But you'll get more coherent responses if you stick with one thread. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

I will copy and paste, I thought I was on the same thread.
Thank you

My children and I have lived communally for years. Not a religious thing just a preferred lifestyle. My children are 15 and 17 and love living in a houseful of people.

His children are 12 and 17. His youngest has been in therapy for a year and a half. He has become much more talkative and joyful since our move in. He is an extrovert in a family od introverts and has expressed to his therapist and parents that he enjoys having people like him living in the home. The 17 year old is an introvert and has said he doesn't prefer communal living but is ok as long as he has his own space to retreat too. The communication with the children is excellent.

Having said that, it is the communication with the adults that stinks. Now that I have lived here 10 months I see how trying to be an adult in a relationship is impossible with his ex. Everything is "hers" and everyone steps on her boundaries. We even bought her a gift for garden while out one day and that upset her.

I am in the process of legally separating from my ex. I would be divorced already if it wasn't so freaking expensive in California. I have already checked legal aid and it is still almost $1,000. I am a full time student and can not swing that right now.

I have been feeling the need to step back. I desire more separation from this very unstable woman. This morning I acquired new housing beginning in August for my boys and I. I agree that he has some decisions to make and steps to take.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, there can only be 1 lady of the house. And whether you see it that way or not, the reality is that you moved into her house. 

She's raised her children in that house, and things have been done there her way for many years.

It's asking for trouble to mess with that by moving in...

Glad to see you've made other arrangements for you and your kids.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

*Re: Re: An unselfish divorce?*



frusdil said:


> OP, there can only be 1 lady of the house. And whether you see it that way or not, the reality is that you moved into her house.
> 
> She's raised her children in that house, and things have been done there her way for many years.
> 
> ...


I agree. There almost always has to be a “matriarch“ it seems, even if this were a mother, mother-in-law. There may not be any sexual or romantic jealousy in this unique situation but his ex will continue the power struggles over “boundary issues“ so long as you live there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Who legally owns the house?


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

They both legally own the house. Financially it isn't an option to sell it in this market.


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

I deleted the other thread. 
I do know that he has told his family because I there are several emails going around his family has sent. I have read them and have been brought up on more than one occasion. Not every man is a liar people. Wow! I guess I am shocked that the first reaction is for people to jump on the cheater/liar/bad guy bandwagon. 
Also, He just printed out the paperwork today to file a legal separation. They may still be married for the time being but really everyone, there is no marriage beyond the paper. They haven't shared a life in three years. They have a large home and they do not come in contact often. The ex partner has a very busy life, which is one of the reasons their marriage declined. She dances four nights a week and spends every weekend in the city with one of her other partners. That means she is out of the home 6 nights a week! She works as well, so is gone most days too. She checked out ages ago. Sam takes care of the kids while working full time. He cleans the house, makes Dr.'s appointments, arranges playdates, plays with his youngest, cooks for them, takes his kids out, etc. Actually he is kind of super dad, and it is one of the traits I love about about him. 
I have a feeling the next issue people will ask about is the house, so-
He wants out of the house. He wants to sell but everyone here should be familiar with the housing market. It would be devastating to sell now. He already looked into just moving out. However, we live in a very expensive area. The cheapest 2 bedroom on Craigslist is $1600 a month. So not only would he being paying a large chunk of the mortgage but he's also be paying rent and utilities on his place. It is financially not smart right now. Currently, he is looking at putting up a wall to separate the house into two sides, only sharing a kitchen.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sounds like the wall or some other demarcation might be a good idea. 

Just curious, why would the get a legal separation at this point and not a divorce?

So what are your plans now?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

This is so beyond my level of understanding. Because quite frankly, this would never work for me. 



Pretzelcoop said:


> I have been dating a man who is cohabitating and co-parenting his two children with his ex.
> 
> We are both very happy. Seven months ago I moved in.
> 
> ...


You have the patience of a saint if you can deal with this. Personally I would find it really disrespectful. it shows that he does not really care to involve you in these situations.



Pretzelcoop said:


> We were dating exclusively. However, over these 9 months our relationship has grown and we have made a commitment to each other. We have discussed marriage as a possibility in the future. Currently, I pay rent to help with expenses.
> 
> However recently she complained that she didn't like her fridge being so full, nor that I took up space in her pantry. All of my food has now been moved to another area. I decided to do this because I was sick of her complaints. Every time I attempted to discuss something with her she would start crying and shut the conversation down.
> 
> ...


Wow.

You say you are happy but you really aren't. Also, I would be concerned for the example you are setting for your children.


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

He hasn't filed for divorce for the same reason I haven't, it is expensive. For me it will be a basic divorce, we own no property and have no major assets and my ex and I have agreed on child support, spousal support, and custody. With all of that already agreed upon it will still cost me a minimum of $1000. I am a full time student and can't swing that right now. 
He and his ex have property and assets. They have not agreed on major issues. The average divorce in America runs $15,000. 

I am a happy person, this relationship doesn't make me a happy person. One finds happiness within themselves. This relationship brings me additional joy for sure. I know that the issues with his ex are complex and annoying however, I understand that they are temporary. 
I appreciate all the constructive comments. Thank you


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## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Hmmm I am going through a divorce and it will be expensive but well worth it. Dividing up the assets is going to be painful for me... I can buy several homes with the money I'll lose, but it will be so worth it. 

Your man needs to file for divorce, no matter what the cost.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pretzelcoop said:


> He hasn't filed for divorce for the same reason I haven't, it is expensive. For me it will be a basic divorce, we own no property and have no major assets and my ex and I have agreed on child support, spousal support, and custody. With all of that already agreed upon it will still cost me a minimum of $1000. I am a full time student and can't swing that right now.


You can do a non-contested divorce on your own, only paying court filing fees. You can also petition the court to waive those fees. There are even free divorce mediation services in the CA court system.
Since you both agree, you could essentially get a free divorce assuming that you are indeed of low enough income that you cannot afford court fees. California has a very good court self-help website. I’ve used it several times to help people complete their divorce not next to nothing in Cali.

Here in NM I helped someone this last month with her divorce. She’s a college student so she filed a request for waiver of fees. The court judge waived the filing fee save a $30 document fee. I did all the paperwork for free. She got her now ex to sign the paperwork. In the end her total cost for her divorce was that $30.

If you want I can point you in the right direction for a non-contested, low cost divorce in Cali. 




Pretzelcoop said:


> He and his ex have property and assets. They have not agreed on major issues. The average divorce in America runs $15,000.


Again if they would work out the details, their divorce could cost them just the filing fees.



Pretzelcoop said:


> I am a happy person, this relationship doesn't make me a happy person. One finds happiness within themselves. This relationship brings me additional joy for sure. I know that the issues with his ex are complex and annoying however, I understand that they are temporary.


If you are willing to deal with the situation then go for it.


Pretzelcoop said:


> I appreciate all the constructive comments. Thank you


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I feel sorry for these kids. Their parents are playing charades for them. It's going to be a difficult shock when they grow up and the rest of the world doesn't orbit them like their parents have.

They (parents) are sheltering kids from the reality that life changes and that they have to adjust. I think that's neglect.

Sound harsh? that was so much more tame that what I really feel about them.


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## violet37 (Apr 8, 2014)

From the outside looking in, your living situation is nothing short of nuts. Yes, it happens, but that doesn't make it any less crazy than it is. This isn't "communal living", this is shacking up in what would be considered a poly relationship if it wasn't for lack of sex. You came in on her "territory". She has a live-in too, but this is HER house. Technically is your boyfriends also, but I'm a woman, you are a woman, and we know how our minds work. If you think you are going to reason with her in some way, you are wasting your time. This is how things will be until you move out. Which you and your kids should do. ASAP.


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

Yes please. I have called so many places from central CA to LA only to be told that the minimum will be $899. Thank you


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## Pretzelcoop (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think that was harsh, just not thought out. All the children involved in this situation are practically adults. Our 17 yr olds and 15 yr old are well aware of how the world works. They are also aware of the fact that they are loved. They understand that with patience and love so much is possible.


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