# Unreasonable Wife - Help



## ukhubbyworried

Just a bit of background - am 39 yo Indian from UK and married in 2008 to an indian from Chicago USA. In the 6 years we have been married she has spent 2 years in the USA visiting months and months at a time. Her reason for going is that she misses her parents and they need her. In future, she says she will go back and help as and when her parents need her as they get elderly or ill - this may span years and she says she can not give an indication. Before we got married I made it clear that I would not move to the USA under any circumstances and she agreed.

The problems with her going back is that she never (apart for a few months) worked over here and she is a qualified barrister. She says she needs the flexibility to go back when she is needed. Most of the time I get 10 days notice and then she goes for eg 3 months/2 months and last time for 11 months. She says she wont have kids as she needs to look after her parents when needed. She does not consider it disrespectful that she leaves for such long periods of time and with such little notice - in fact she has said to me that she considers it disrespectful if I tell her that she should not go and see her parents. Funny thing is that before we got married she had not lived with them since she was 18 as she "needed her freedom". She says that seeing them growing old made her think that she should spend time with them. Another example is that she had been in USA for 7 months last year and refused to come for xmas stating that she wanted to spend it with her family there. She also worked for the 11 months she stayed there but states that she did not save any money and she was living with her parents - I suspect she paid for all their bills and mortgages etc. 

My question is what is it that I have got to look forward to? No kids, a wife who is not really going to work or have a career and a wife who will leave at a drop of a pin whenever she wants and especially when her parents may need her in future. I have said you can ask your parents to move in with us in the UK and she says why should they have to move, why cant we move to the USA. All my family and friends say that I need to call it a day but I dont have the courage to tell her that I want a divorce. I did spend 3 months with her in the USA at her parents in 2012 and she totally ignored me in that time electing to spend all her time with her parents and her sister - even her mum told her to spend more time with me. 

I am in a very dark and confused space right now - we have been going counselling but that has not helped. What would you do?


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## ReidWright

hmm...in traditional Indian culture, the woman moves away from her family, and supports her husband's household. So this is a bit weird. She needs to cut the umbilical cord.

sounds like she just prefers the US...to being with you, unfortunately.

The kids thing is weird too. I've never met a set of Indian parents that didn't ask "When are we getting grandkids" every five minutes.

How's your relationship with her parents? I assume you were arranged? any residual bitterness between the families (dowry issues?)?


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## ukhubbyworried

Thank ReidWright,

The marriage was not arranged - we met online and dated and decided to get married - problem was we only saw each other for less than 3 weeks in the 2 years before our marriage.

I am not really able to talk to her parents about anything as they dont really respond to anything - I have tried talking to them in the past about their other daughter's behaviour and they just went quiet and changed the subject. My wife just palms her parents when they ask about children by stating that "i'm a kid myself" or "it will happen one day" but she has not told them that she is hell bent against having kids. My problem is that she makes unilateral decisions and years later realises her mistakes and I suspect not having kids will hit her too late. 

No dowry issues - when we got married both families split the cost 50/50 and no gifts were exchanged as both families were against that.

The problem I have with my wife is that she has no ambition or motivation or drive - and I wake up everyday with her and it is deja vu - she does not like thinking long term and we do not have any shared goals. I do not know if her parents even know this as we dont really communicate - she let it slip once that her parents think that I am ok with her spending so much time in the States when I am clearly not. Should I pick up the phone to my father in law and tell him of all this?


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## PBear

IMHO, no. Your problems are with your wife. Running to her daddy for help will just make you look even weaker. 

Tell her what you need and expect in a wife. Lay out your boundaries. If she's not the one for you, let her go. She can explain to her parents why she's moving back home. 

C
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## ukhubbyworried

Thanks PBear.

I guess it is a last ditched attempt for help and she if listens to her dad as I very much suspect that she has not told them about our problems. For example, last time she left for 11 months she told me that she was going as her parents needed her but told them a different reason so they wouldnt feel bad (saying easier to get work in USA). They are not aware that she has no ambition or drive or commitment to the marriage and maybe, just maybe, they can get through to her.

The other thing that bothers me is that she has left to go to the USA for 3 months at a time for example I was not too well and also when my business went bankrupt and I was on the verge of a breakdown. Her need to be with her parents was more important to support me.

I am just putting emphasis on the off chance that her dad is able to help if he is told what is really going on. (another example would be that i told her i wanted to divorce 4 times when she was away in the USA last time but she wanted to come back and try again and I ended up saying ok but she told her parents that I convinced her to come back!).


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## PBear

Getting divorced is a fairly long process, usually. And it's not complete until the final signatures are on the agreement. 

I'll stick with my advice. Figure out your boundaries, talk to her about them. If she wants to work with you on them, great. If not... They're boundaries for a reason. 

C
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## PBear

Oh, and your "telling her I wanted a divorce 4 times" is a big part of your problem, too. You're teaching her that you don't mean what you say, and that you'll back down. Stop doing that. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ukhubbyworried

PBear - that is a very good point - she does think that I am a soft touch and does not think that I would ever leave her - even though she says that if I ever asked her to leave then she would. I ask her what she wants in life and she says just to be happy - and nothing else - I ask what that means and she says its hard for her to explain. I think I do need to write my boundaries down and lay them down - if she cant accept them then it is better to leave now. I have tried laying boundaries down in respect of her sister who completely belittles me and my family and totally insults us - when I ask me wife to intervene she says that she cant choose between us even though she knows her sister is wrong - and says if I ever speak the same way back to her sister then we would have problems. She goes furtehr to say that a condition of our marriage is my ability to entertain her unreasonable sister or she would leave.


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## PBear

Did she take your testicles to her parents for safe keeping?

Sorry to be harsh, but seriously, dude... You need to start manning up. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man's Sex Life Primer", to start with. Individual counseling wouldn't hurt, either. 

C
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## ukhubbyworried

PBear - lol that is true - I guess the prospect of being on my own makes me put up with her unreasonable behaviour and sheer disrespect towards me.


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## PBear

Haven't you been on your own anyway?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ukhubbyworried

That is true - i feel that way even when she is here as everyday I wake up and wonder if she is going to announce a lengthy trip to the States. 

Problem is that all her behaviours have been pointed out as unreasonable when we talk to the other couples here - but she says that all her friends / couples in the States would consider her behaviour as unreasonable and shrugs off any advice from here.


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## PBear

I don't know why nobody else is chiming in, but... Get the books I mentioned earlier. Read them on your own. Stop making any "threats" that you're not willing to act on. Start thinking about what you need in a spouse. Look for a counselor. Do these things before you try to have another talk to her. 

As far as what's reasonable or not... She's full of horse pucky. And even if she feels right about what she's doing, if it doesn't work for you, you have options. Use them. 

C
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## tom67

Like PBear has said you are the only one in the marriage if you want to call it that.
You have to call her out on this.
Sorry you are here.


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## EleGirl

PBear is right. You need to state your boundaries and what you expect from her. And you need to tell her that these things are deal breakers. 

I know that it's hard to tell her that you want a divorce. So the way to approach this is to come up with a plan. Write out a plan, or to do list, of what has to be done to end this marriage. Then just work it one step at a time. If you do this, then you only need to think of one of the list items at a time.

If you want to give this marriage another chance, then do lay out your boundaries. A good book that would help is "His Needs, Her Needs". Tell her that besides working the book with you, she has to go to MC with you. 

Set a time limit. If she has not made HUGE changes in the right direction in 3 months, file for divorce. If she has, check again 3 months later. Do the sanity check every 3 months. People seldom change. They might be able to maintain it for 3-6 months, but then they back slide. That's why the every 3 month sanity check. If your wife is not working and putting 100% into your marriage then it's time to divorce her. There are women out there who would love to marry a good man. She apparently is not really interested in being married to you.

If you don't feel that you can work on this marriage anymore than that's ok too. You have put 6 years into this and she has mostly just run away from the marriage. You would be justified in divorcing now.

If you want help with your list of needs and boundaries you can list them here and we can give you feedback.


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## ukhubbyworried

Thanks tom & elegirl. i will have a think about boundaries and list them. But she will not abide by any boundaries. She has just told me that her parents are coming over to visit in a months time as well as her sister and her husband - first time in 6 years that they are visiting. Whilst I dont mind about the visit as I would welcome guests in open arms, she says for the 2 week visit they all want to spend a week in London (about 100 miles away from where we are) - and that we have to pay for the hotels, meals whilst in London as it would be rude and insulting if they had to pay - now my wife will not pay as she claims she never has any money and that trip could cost me over £5000 - that 7 nights and 3 bedrooms at a hotel, plus 3 meals for us six per day plus travel and things to do PLUS the costs when they come to here for the other week. I pointed out that when I go to the States that I always have to pay half of everything and probably end up paying more than fair share - I think that is so unreasonable. In any case, I told her how am I supposed to get 2 weeks off work at such short notice - her response was she would go to London on her own then. In addition to this her parents are pushing her for dates next year that we will visit as they want to book time off - whereas I get such short notice. The problem is I can spend all that money and be very friendly but it changes nothing between the wife and me. Her priority is her parents, sister and EVEN her husband and then me - every action and words have backed that up. Surely I should not live me life as fifth fiddle.


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## PBear

She doesn't listen to your boundaries because you don't enforce them, and she doesn't respect you. 

How does she pay for all this stuff? Is she working?

C
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## ukhubbyworried

She doesnt work no - she always says she looks but doesnt find anything - which I dont believe. Yesterday I overheard her chatting to her cousin sister and it became clear that she pays for her parents twice weekly personal training sessions and the mobile phone plan for 4 there - god knows only what else - where does she get that money if she is always saying that she is broke and always states that her parents control her account and she never knows what is in their. A woman approaching 40 does not know how much she has is a joke. I will say in her favour that she is not money orientated though and is very low maintenance generally money wise - far less than anyone's wife I know in fact.


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## PBear

Low maintenance money wise? How much do her trips cost? And £5000 for her parents? Plus their trainer (how does this get paid that you don't know about it?)...

Cut the finances off. Pay the household bills, but none of her discretionary spending. Until she wants to be an active participant in the marriage, she's not entitled to the benefits of it. 

C
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## ukhubbyworried

she funds her own trips from money that she has over there?!?!?!?!?!?! when i did go the the USA for 3 months in 2012 she funded the whole trip and didnt once say no to anything i wanted or did. its that she isnt transparent about her money over there ever. when my business went bust she did not help even though i knew she had money over the the USA.


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## PBear

So your money is for both of you, but her money is just hers... Gotcha. 

This is getting worse and worse. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iver

Did you discuss having children prior to getting married? 

Or did you marry her knowing she did not want any?


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## tom67

PBear said:


> So your money is for both of you, but her money is just hers... Gotcha.
> 
> This is getting worse and worse.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
Until you stand up for yourself this will continue my friend.
She can use her money when they come over.


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## imtamnew

I seriously can't understand why you want to be in this joke of a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

Considering that Indian marriages are usually a family affair, I would speak to your father-in-law, OP. I would be quite transparent about all the problems. Today. Right now. Get on skype. Ask for a private conference, so you can speak without interruption and her defensiveness. It sounds like you think your father-in-law's a reasonable man who will hear you out.

If open and honest communication with her parents and your wife is not successful, I would pursue a divorce. 

And no committing to any trips next year. Financial commitment, in my opinion, should stop today.


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## 6301

Friend, you don't have a marriage. never did, so there shouldn't be a problem in ending it. 

It comes down to this. She does what she want, when she wants and it doesn't matter how it affects you. She put Mumsy and Daddy and her family in front of you and made it clear that this is the way it's going to be so now you have a choice to make.

Either be her door mat and live like your living, or make the changes that you need to make.

If it was me, I would tell her that if she can't or is unwilling to put you first then she can move back to her family and stay there because you are moving on and find your happiness elsewhere. 

I understand that her family is important to her. Family is important to everyone but when it puts you in the position where you no longer matter, then your the one that needs to make the changes since she wont.


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## U.E. McGill

Pbear, I'm tapping in. 

All right, I'm going to hit you with a cricket bat right now. It's going to f'n hurt. But it's with love. 

She's treating you like a woman. This is the married equivalent of "let's be friends". She's got you doing the husband shît but is not giving you the wife goods. You are officially a girlfriend with a penis. Women control intimacy, men commitment. You're still committed but she's living the single life. 

Pbear is right. Read those books right now. 

2nd. Quit fücking talking to her and her family and her friends. That's crap a woman would do. 

I think you've let this get away from you. So you need drastic measures. Separate your finances, prepare for divorce. Now I'm not saying you're going to divorce her, but she needs to see YOU DONT NEED HER AND ARE MOVING ON. Is she over there now? If she is do all I've said and give her one ultimatum: "get on a plane, come home and start acting like a wife"

If she doesn't, cut off the cards and money. Remember your her sole source of income. She'll panic. She'll claim it's your fault. That's her hamster wheel trying to explain her crappy behavior. Your only answer to her should be "on a plane or we're done, if I don't hear from you in 48 hours I assume you don't want to come back". Serve the divorce papers anyway, so she has to get in your good graces to stop it. 

Get a separate bank account right now. Move all your money in it and tell her straight up. "My money, not yours, not ours". She has to earn that right. 

This is all your fault, but you can fix it too.


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## jld

UE, do you think she cares? Do you not think she was just under pressure to get married by her culture?

I don't think she wants to be married to this guy.

But it would be interesting to see what would happen if he strong-armed the situation all of a sudden. Maybe she would comply and find that she does like being his wife.


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## happy as a clam

Personally, I think it's time to pull the plug on this marriage. As you stated in your first post:



> My question is *what is it that I have got to look forward to? No kids, a wife who is not really going to work or have a career and a wife who will leave at a drop of a pin whenever she wants and especially when her parents may need her in future.*


So, what *do* you really have to look forward to in this relationship?


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## U.E. McGill

jld said:


> UE, do you think she cares? Do you not think she was just under pressure to get married by her culture?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she wants to be married to this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> But it would be interesting to see what would happen if he strong-armed the situation all of a sudden. Maybe she would comply and find that she does like being his wife.



I think at this point he's got nothing. He's basically her sugar daddy. By taking initiative he gains power back. Id also expose everything to her parents to. Nothing like some old fashioned shame from traditional parents. 

At least he'll force her hand one way or the other. Personally I wouldn't do any of it. The last she'd ever hear from me was through my lawyer. I think she might be having an affair, but me, I'm always suspicious.


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## jld

Hmm, I did not think affair, as she is always with the parents. I am just thinking there was pressure to get married by a certain age, and he seemed to be a reasonable enough choice.

It'll be interesting to see what he does.

Lol on "old-fashioned shame."


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## richie33

I would look into affair.


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## ukhubbyworried

Thanks guys so much for your responses - it is more or less what all my family has been saying but due to them being one sided it's nice to hear from others.

Re kids - we both said 50/50 before we got married. It's her reason for not having them now which has changed which is that she will not be able to look after her parents when they need her.

Re finances - she really isn't money orientated - but my family says I am too naeive as she has lots stashed away in the States and is not transparent with me.

This is what we have been arguing about this last day over and over again: My point is it is disrespectful and unreasonable that she goes to the States by giving me less than 10 days notice (especially when I have things planned) and also by going for anything between 3 to 11 months at a time. Her point is that she does not consider that to be disrespectful but has conceded that she can see the length of time being unreasonable - she reckons the very fact that I would question her visiting her parents is disrespectful from my perspective!! In future she has said she will liaise with me by giving more notice. However, she will be flexible to go at a pin drop notice should her parents need her in any shape form or manner and for as long as they need her. This is where the problem lies - her father got diagnosed with Parkinsons 3 years ago and is fine and works full time etc and she has gone for 1.5 years since then saying they need her - I dont get it as he works full time and even goes on vacation to India on his own - my issue is that in the 3 years that he has been absolutely fine she has gone for 1.5 years - what is it going to look like when he deteriorates. I have offered her parents to live with us in the UK where we will look after them and my wife can be a full time carer but she says that is unreasonable as we should go there. My qualifications only allow me to work in the UK so what would I do there especially as I am the bread winner. I will not get a look in if she deems her parents need her.

The other thing is that she is adamant that should anything happen to her father that her mum comes and lives with us. Which is fine by me, albeit my wife will keep her company all the time and spend little time with me (that is what has happened anytime her mother is around). Also, when her mum is around we can not go out without her as my wife deems that rude. The thing in all this is that her parents support her request to move to the States - they are encouraging the break up of their own daughter's marriage.

I am second fiddle to her family - when her sister would insult me in the States she would take her side and not mine and even has it as a condition of staying married that I keep her sister on side and happy.

I know for a fact that I should divorce her - there is something that is deep rooted and not quite right (like I can not get a handle on the years of her past as she side steps such questions). The problem I have is that I am turning 40 this year and am stressed about the prospect of being on my own (though PBear has pointed out I am on my own anyway).

I intend to write a list of my boundaries in the next few weeks and sense check them with family and on here. I also intend to speak to her father and explain it from my perspective. I will also continue to go counselling and seek help (will change counsellor though).

We are going to France tomorrow for a 4 day trip - was something I booked a while ago and was prepaid. She is acting all happy as larry as I only told her about it today as a surprise. 

The underlying problems wont go away but will try to enjoy the trip. Living every day at a time and everyday being a deja vu day is no fun - I read somewhere that when people divorce there is 2 major problems with one being the loss of the physical partner and the second being the loss of shared goals and dreams - the latter does not apply in our marriage and never has so that loss wont be an issue.

This forum is great.


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## EleGirl

ukhubbyworried said:


> Thanks tom & elegirl. i will have a think about boundaries and list them. But she will not abide by any boundaries.


You do not understand what a boundary is. A boundary is not something you expect your wife to do. A boundary is a rule by which you live and that you will not accept someone else crossing. A boundary is a statement of what your will allow in your life and what action you will take if that boundary is crossed.

Personal Boundaries â€“ Part V: Boundary Position Statements - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates

Here are some examples for you?

“I will not stay in a marriage in which my wife is away for months at a time. The next time you go on a vacation or trip to visit your family without me I will file for divorce.”

“I will not be the sole breadwinner in a relationship so I will file for divorce in 6 months if this trend continues. “

“I will not support an adult who is perfectly capable of working. “

“I won’t pay for your family’s stay in London. “


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## EleGirl

ukhubbyworried said:


> She doesnt work no - she always says she looks but doesnt find anything - which I dont believe. Yesterday I overheard her chatting to her cousin sister and it became clear that she pays for her parents twice weekly personal training sessions and the mobile phone plan for 4 there - god knows only what else - where does she get that money if she is always saying that she is broke and always states that her parents control her account and she never knows what is in their. A woman approaching 40 does not know how much she has is a joke. I will say in her favour that she is not money orientated though and is very low maintenance generally money wise - far less than anyone's wife I know in fact.


Her parents control her account? What is the source of the money in her account? Is it inheritance?


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## Iver

EleGirl said:


> Her parents control her account? What is the source of the money in her account? Is it inheritance?


I would sit her down and ask for all her account and banking information. This could be in conjunction with financial planning on your part. Obviously you need to know how much money is out there. 

If she refuses to give you this information I would proceed to divorce. 

It does sound like you have very separate lives if you don't see the bills she pays and don't know what banks she uses.


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## norajane

Your wife doesn't sound married at all. You might be, but she isn't and really doesn't want to be married.

It's time to move on. You're 40. You don't have a lot of time to waste on someone who has already chosen her family over her marriage. 

If you wait to divorce, you're still going to be unhappy and the only thing that will change is you're years older.


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## EleGirl

Iver said:


> I would sit her down and ask for all her account and banking information. This could be in conjunction with financial planning on your part. Obviously you need to know how much money is out there.
> 
> If she refuses to give you this information I would proceed to divorce.
> 
> It does sound like you have very separate lives if you don't see the bills she pays and don't know what banks she uses.


If the money she has is from an inheritance and/or something she acquired prior to marriage, it's her sole property. He has no right to it at all.

Now he can tell her that she has to support herself. Then she will have to either get a job or use her sole property to support herself. But he has no legal right to demand access to her money.


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## Iver

EleGirl said:


> If the money she has is from an inheritance and/or something she acquired prior to marriage, it's her sole property. He has no right to it at all.
> 
> Now he can tell her that she has to support herself. Then she will have to either get a job or use her sole property to support herself. But he has no legal right to demand access to her money.


He doesn't seem to know how she supports herself or what bills she is paying. I believe she was working during part of thier marriage - maybe when she was overseas?

I don't think he should take her money but it is necessary for her to be open and transparent to him re. her finances if this marriage has any hope of working. (that's not going to happen I'm sure)

If she isn't willing to share this information, well, it would be real clear it's time to throw the towel in and get the divorce rolling.


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## ukhubbyworried

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your replies.

Regarding source of income, she works when she is in the States but likes to keep that money secret and uses that when she goes to the States and to help her parents out.

We just spent 4 days in France last week. We went to counselling today and since our last session I have played a very cool and calm position with her, getting along and being kind and being sensitive and in that time we have not argued. I wanted to see if I changed completely and did everything she asked, as well as take her on holiday if anything would change. 

So I was completely shocked when the counseller asked her how had the last 2 weeks gone and her reply was "we've had many ups and downs and nothing has changed". At this point I asked her to give me a single example of a down and she could not. What is the point of me making all that effort when there is no recognition whatsoever.

Anyway, during counselling she was asked what her plans to go to the States in the future are and how she plans to discuss them with me as it has affected our relationship. The first bit of the answer was she would discuss with me with view of a yearly planner - ok. The second bit was that she would go as soon as she considered her parents needed her - which is where the problem lies. So i asked her does that means weeks, months, a year or 5 years - her answer was it depended on how long she was needed for - at which point I said that could be years then and her answer was yes. She's visited the States for 2 out of 6 years we have been married as she has deemed that her parents needed her - what I cant get a handle on is what happens when they do actually get sick etc - would that mean she permanently moves there.

So I said to the counsellor what is it that i have to look forward to - she wont have any kids primarily as it would interfere with her looking after her parents, she doesnt want a career as she needs flexibility, i cant go on holidays with her if she does start working as she is only interested in using all her hols to go to the States, and to top it all off I have to wait everyday to see whether she deems her parents need her so she flies off and cannot commit to how long that would be.

She has clearly chosen her parents over me. Is that ok?


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## U.E. McGill

ukhubbyworried said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> Regarding source of income, she works when she is in the States but likes to keep that money secret and uses that when she goes to the States and to help her parents out.
> 
> We just spent 4 days in France last week. We went to counselling today and since our last session I have played a very cool and calm position with her, getting along and being kind and being sensitive and in that time we have not argued. I wanted to see if I changed completely and did everything she asked, as well as take her on holiday if anything would change.
> 
> So I was completely shocked when the counseller asked her how had the last 2 weeks gone and her reply was "we've had many ups and downs and nothing has changed". At this point I asked her to give me a single example of a down and she could not. What is the point of me making all that effort when there is no recognition whatsoever.
> 
> Anyway, during counselling she was asked what her plans to go to the States in the future are and how she plans to discuss them with me as it has affected our relationship. The first bit of the answer was she would discuss with me with view of a yearly planner - ok. The second bit was that she would go as soon as she considered her parents needed her - which is where the problem lies. So i asked her does that means weeks, months, a year or 5 years - her answer was it depended on how long she was needed for - at which point I said that could be years then and her answer was yes. She's visited the States for 2 out of 6 years we have been married as she has deemed that her parents needed her - what I cant get a handle on is what happens when they do actually get sick etc - would that mean she permanently moves there.
> 
> So I said to the counsellor what is it that i have to look forward to - she wont have any kids primarily as it would interfere with her looking after her parents, she doesnt want a career as she needs flexibility, i cant go on holidays with her if she does start working as she is only interested in using all her hols to go to the States, and to top it all off I have to wait everyday to see whether she deems her parents need her so she flies off and cannot commit to how long that would be.
> 
> She has clearly chosen her parents over me. Is that ok?



Ok you tried the nice guy approach. I could have told you exactly how it was going to go. You found out anyway. Chalk that up to a learning experience. 

You are NOT GOING TO NICE YOUR WAY out of this. This was a long road to mediocrity and it will be to get out. 

Your wife doesn't see you as the most important person in her life. Her attitude is completely unreasonable.

So detach from your wife. This is rough but you don't need her. I would read "no more mr nice guy" and "married man sex life primer" in that order. 

Be prepared to get the marriage you want or out of the one your in. You have choices!!! She is 100% replaceable.


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## PBear

Well, it wouldn't be ok with me. Is it ok with you though? That's the important question...

C


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## ukhubbyworried

Hi Guys,

So this is the latest update.

As a poster said I should speak to her parents, which I did and this is how it went.

Sunday - spoke to wife's dad. Was a 2 hour conversation and it went well - he listened and said we should have spoken sooner and that he will try and help. 

Yesterday - wife's mum called. Please bear in mind that she is the one that wears the pants in that relationship like 95%/5%. 

She said she had a special relationship with her daughter and that her daughter should split her time between the States and the UK. I said that she is a married woman who needs to live her own life and she responded by saying that they raised her like a son and she has responsibilities for the home and family.

She said I should move over there - when I asked why should we move she said I was backward and not flexible and totally wrong. Bear in mind she is asking us to move in with them and not our own place. I said why cant you move over here and her response was why should they have to do it.

She said I should have visited the States more often - when I asked why they couldnt be bothered to come here she said they are both working so why should they come. I said well we should be working and the reason why your daughter doesnt work is sue to her return to the States.

She said why should her daughter have to live a miserable life and be punished for moving here - why cant we move there - i reminded her it was her daughters choice to move here and said at the outset i would not move there - and also your daughter has a choice to get divorced and move back if that is the case.

She said that i should not stop my wife from visiting the States and that she fully expects my wife to work in the States and continue to spend that amount of time.

I said dont you realise by virtue of what you are saying and advising your daughter that it is stopping her live her life, get a career/job going here and ALSO starting a family. She said she could still do that by getting temp jobs and having a family and the children could split their time in the States and here. I said you expect that my children spend split time and asked what that meant. She stated that 6 months between the places was reasonable. I said what is the point of me having children then and what husband would like to spend 6 months a year away from their children. Again she said I was being backward and not flexible.

I have not slept a wink overnight. I feel very very sorry for my wife who is caught in the middle of this. I for the first time understand my wife's actions of the past as her mother dictates how we work. She said an email to my wife in the morning saying i am your mother and want the best for you. I feel very confused and angered and need to speak to someone but everyone in my circle is busy today arrrrgggh. How could I ever have kids now with my wife even if she wanted them when I know what is going to happen as my wife will lean towards her mother. PS - i have not argued at all with my wife about this even though she was there when i had this conversation.


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## U.E. McGill

Dude. KNOCK IT OFF. Quit talking to your mother in law. Quit yapping at your wife. 

Yeah your MIL wears the pants. All that talking to her only validated that she's right and should be in charge. IGNORE her. 

She changing the rules of the game. She doesn't get to be traditional and have her daughter be the "eldest boy". Quit engaging. 

Tell your wife, come home be a wife, or go be a son. You don't get both. 

If my MIL tried that crap on me she'd be GONE forever.


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## ukhubbyworried

My situation is bad. I wake up next to a woman I know will never have kids, a woman I know will spend upto half our time with her parents abroad and a woman who will not be seen for dust if her parents got mildly ill or if one passed away as she will not leave the other one alone.

My father in law called me yesterday and stated that he would try to persuade my wife to have kids only if we move into their house or if my wife and kids could spend half their time in the States with them. I tried to explain that no man would have kids knowing that half the time the kids would be away - AND be influenced by in laws who are so weird/unreasonable. Wife's parents said they need her to look after everything and they need her. I said why dont you move over here - they wont.

Now this is where I am lost or need advice - I asked my wife to speak to her mother and say that we hear her views on how we should lead our marriage but what she wants does not work for us so we want to work our marriage in a way we have agreed. But wife refuses to chat to her mother to let her know that as she does not want to hurt her. By not doing this her mother keeps on advising her things which work against our marriage and some of that stuff and pressure does get through to my wife. What would you do?


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## PBear

My advice on the first page still stands. In the absence you you manning up, the domaniant figure in your "marriage" will be your MIL. So guess who gets her way?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiredFamilyGuy

I have read the whole thread. You are making tactical mistakes.

It is fine for you do inform your in laws of your viewpoint. 

It is not a good idea to then debate, or to enlist one to handle the other, or really to do other than talk first and foremost to your wife. Their interests are not aligned with yours. You would like to think they are, but they are not, and in particular your mother in law would like to persuade your daughter that your interests do not matter. In this her success appears to be complete. 

_"Your wife doesn't sound married at all. You might be, but she isn't and really doesn't want to be married. It's time to move on. You're 40. You don't have a lot of time to waste on someone who has already chosen her family over her marriage. "_

I agree with the poster who said that. Your wife has not detached from her mother, from her parents, in favour of your marriage. Yes I know you are Indian and families are close, but my friends Bhupinder and Iqtadar would tell you the same thing. 

You cannot "nice" or negotiate someone unreasonable, into being reasonable. It will take a crisis. You have to state what you will do, then do it. It will be hard, but then it will become easy. It will be painful, but then you will get self-respect. Also, it is the only way to actually to stand a chance of getting a full time wife, kids, a partner who will support you: you have been patient but this sham marriage is out of rope - you must bring it to a crisis and end it.

You have said how you feel, but exerted no real sanction. No wonder she feels she can just do what she wants, or in a more charitable interpretation, feels she can try to satisfy parents while keeping you minimally happy. Be totally clear this is not a tenable position. You are happy for her to choose. But you are also free to choose. For the gods sake man, don't collude in her walking over you.


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## Wolfman1968

UKHubby...

I have lived your life. This is how my ex-wife's behavior was to me. She would leave me for months at a time to visit her mother in another state. She left me at holidays (e.g., Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.). I was undergoing cardiac testing, yet she chose to be with her mother over me.

I came to several realizations:

1. I meant nothing to my ex-wife (when we were married) as a husband, intimate partner or individual. She only used me for finances and for the status of my social position. She did not love me at all; she loved the life my position gave her. Her words were lies; her actions told the truth.

2. Because I married my ex-wife when I was on the rebound from a bad breakup, my sense of self-worth was low. Despite my complaints that I was being treated poorly, I didn't have the deep, passionate feeling that I deserved better. I didn't feel it with the kind of fierceness that drives you to action; and I think that is because I probably didn't value myself at the time. I seemed more reconciled to my lot in life rather than seeing myself as being worth more than that horrible situation.

3. My ex-wife also ignored my pleas to go to marriage counseling, etc. And why should she, when there were no consequences for her if she didn't comply? That's why it never changed. And I believe I never followed through on consequences because of issue #2 above.

It took a lot for me to have an epiphany. Here's my bottom line messages for you:

A) You have to BELIEVE with every fiber of your being, that you DESERVE MORE than this, and you are worth more than the situation that you are given. If you do not believe this, nothing will change. 

B) Once you BELIEVE you deserve more, you MUST ACT. You must follow through with your limits and there must be consequences (divorce, it looks like, in this case).

C) You must ask yourself: In view of her actions, does she REALLY love you, desire you, want to be near you and make you happy? Because you DESERVE a spouse who feels that way towards you. You are WORTH having a spouse that feels that way. And if she does not feel that way, shouldn't you really find one that does?

I think once you value yourself, your way will be clear.


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## ukhubbyworried

thank you so much pbear, tiredfamilyguy and wolfman and all else. you have spent time writing very considerate responses and ones that I totally can see sense and reason with. I have spent the last few days reading and re-reading your responses and have had time to reflect.

I know what i should do but cant get around to do it. Just today my wife said she is like her mother and i said well that means no career and no kids etc but she said there was nothing wrong woth her mums viewpoint. I know for sure that I wont have any kids with wife and also she will go forever if need be when her parents need her regardless of me and my needs. I need to make a decision but cant seem to. I wake up everyday and it is like deja vu as I have nothing to look forward to at all. Seriously depressed.


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## Wolfman1968

ukhubbyworried said:


> I know what i should do but cant get around to do it. Just today my wife said she is like her mother and i said well that means no career and no kids etc but she said there was nothing wrong woth her mums viewpoint. I know for sure that I wont have any kids with wife and also she will go forever if need be when her parents need her regardless of me and my needs. I need to make a decision but cant seem to. I wake up everyday and it is like deja vu as I have nothing to look forward to at all. Seriously depressed.


You have to believe in yourself; believe you are worth more than you are currently receiving.

I am not much for this pseudo-pop-psychology self-esteem fad, but this may be one time where something like Affirmations could be of value.

Look at yourself in the mirror, each day, or even several times a day. Tell yourself--out loud--that you are a good person, a worthwhile person, and you DESERVE to be treated right. You are WORTHWHILE, and you DESERVE to be valued as a spouse. Repeat it over and over, and say it convincingly. It may sound hokey at first, but I think if you do it enough, you might start believing it a little. I think it's this self-belief you need to convert your wants into action.


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## EleGirl

ukhubbyworried said:


> I need to make a decision but cant seem to. I wake up everyday and it is like deja vu as I have nothing to look forward to at all. Seriously depressed.



Depression causes a person to not be able to make decisions are act. Have you considered seeing a doctor and getting antidepressants.

I think that you have come to a point where you are most likely clinically depressed. they call it a situational depression. Please think about getting some meds to help you get through this and to do what you know you need to do. 

If you need support, is there someone in your life who you can talk to a lot? Also come here and talk.. there are people who will help you out.


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## ukhubbyworried

Thanks all for your assistance.

I feel that I need to make a few confessions that make this split difficult.

1) I am afraid to be on my own - even though I know my wife will not have kids and will not put me before her family.

2) I have a couple of very minor health issues, eg bp, probably as a result of my relationship stress and it is nice to have someone beside you, albeit she is not always here and gone when i needed her most at the time.

3) Perhaps the biggest thing is what if I can not get another woman in my life. For background info, I studied law at uni and became a solicitor and then trained in accountancy and became a very senior accountant at a big 4 firm. I then left my profession to become a full time gambler. I have since paid all my mortgage and have implemented a "5 year rule" where my wife has 5 years worth of living and holiday expenses separate to my profession so there is no pressure. I am good at what I do and have expanded my profession where it does not solely rely on my gambling success. My wife accepts this as she has seen the rewards and lifestyle. If I was to leave my wife which other person, especially in the indian community, would be ok with this.

I am very unhappy with my marriage but am very happy with my life in terms of my profession due to the freedom and reward that it gives me. 

I am depressed about my situation. My brother thinks the solution is simple. I let the wife and profession go and go back into working for a big 4 firm and attact another woman. The thing is I love what I do.


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## missthelove2013

does she work
are YOU financing all these trips to the states
do you have a satisfying love life

this sounds completely ridiculous to me...SHE is not going to change on her own...


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## missthelove2013

ukhubbyworried said:


> Thanks tom & elegirl. i will have a think about boundaries and list them. But she will not abide by any boundaries. She has just told me that her parents are coming over to visit in a months time as well as her sister and her husband - first time in 6 years that they are visiting. Whilst I dont mind about the visit as I would welcome guests in open arms, she says for the 2 week visit they all want to spend a week in London (about 100 miles away from where we are) - and that we have to pay for the hotels, meals whilst in London as it would be rude and insulting if they had to pay - now my wife will not pay as she claims she never has any money and that trip could cost me over £5000 - that 7 nights and 3 bedrooms at a hotel, plus 3 meals for us six per day plus travel and things to do PLUS the costs when they come to here for the other week. I pointed out that when I go to the States that I always have to pay half of everything and probably end up paying more than fair share - I think that is so unreasonable. In any case, I told her how am I supposed to get 2 weeks off work at such short notice - her response was she would go to London on her own then. In addition to this her parents are pushing her for dates next year that we will visit as they want to book time off - whereas I get such short notice. The problem is I can spend all that money and be very friendly but it changes nothing between the wife and me. Her priority is her parents, sister and EVEN her husband and then me - every action and words have backed that up. Surely I should not live me life as fifth fiddle.


my god I cant believe this is even a discussion...i would have told her to pack her crap and head on out to chicago...she cant be serious...YOU cant be serious


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## missthelove2013

ukhubbyworried said:


> She doesnt work no - she always says she looks but doesnt find anything - which I dont believe. Yesterday I overheard her chatting to her cousin sister and it became clear that she pays for her parents twice weekly personal training sessions and the mobile phone plan for 4 there - god knows only what else - where does she get that money if she is always saying that she is broke and always states that her parents control her account and she never knows what is in their. A woman approaching 40 does not know how much she has is a joke. I will say in her favour that she is not money orientated though and is very low maintenance generally money wise - far less than anyone's wife I know in fact.


she is NOT low maintenance...you are financially supporting HER family...take total control of the money, chop up credit cards...take way her purse strings...jeezus...she needs a HUGE wake up call NOW


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## missthelove2013

ukhubbyworried said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So this is the latest update.
> 
> As a poster said I should speak to her parents, which I did and this is how it went.
> 
> Sunday - spoke to wife's dad. Was a 2 hour conversation and it went well - he listened and said we should have spoken sooner and that he will try and help.
> 
> Yesterday - wife's mum called. Please bear in mind that she is the one that wears the pants in that relationship like 95%/5%.
> 
> She said she had a special relationship with her daughter and that her daughter should split her time between the States and the UK. I said that she is a married woman who needs to live her own life and she responded by saying that they raised her like a son and she has responsibilities for the home and family.
> 
> She said I should move over there - when I asked why should we move she said I was backward and not flexible and totally wrong. Bear in mind she is asking us to move in with them and not our own place. I said why cant you move over here and her response was why should they have to do it.
> 
> She said I should have visited the States more often - when I asked why they couldnt be bothered to come here she said they are both working so why should they come. I said well we should be working and the reason why your daughter doesnt work is sue to her return to the States.
> 
> She said why should her daughter have to live a miserable life and be punished for moving here - why cant we move there - i reminded her it was her daughters choice to move here and said at the outset i would not move there - and also your daughter has a choice to get divorced and move back if that is the case.
> 
> She said that i should not stop my wife from visiting the States and that she fully expects my wife to work in the States and continue to spend that amount of time.
> 
> I said dont you realise by virtue of what you are saying and advising your daughter that it is stopping her live her life, get a career/job going here and ALSO starting a family. She said she could still do that by getting temp jobs and having a family and the children could split their time in the States and here. I said you expect that my children spend split time and asked what that meant. She stated that 6 months between the places was reasonable. I said what is the point of me having children then and what husband would like to spend 6 months a year away from their children. Again she said I was being backward and not flexible.
> 
> I have not slept a wink overnight. I feel very very sorry for my wife who is caught in the middle of this. I for the first time understand my wife's actions of the past as her mother dictates how we work. She said an email to my wife in the morning saying i am your mother and want the best for you. I feel very confused and angered and need to speak to someone but everyone in my circle is busy today arrrrgggh. How could I ever have kids now with my wife even if she wanted them when I know what is going to happen as my wife will lean towards her mother. PS - i have not argued at all with my wife about this even though she was there when i had this conversation.


your mil is a fooking idiot...another reason to END this horrible marriage


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## missthelove2013

ukhubbyworried said:


> Thanks all for your assistance.
> 
> I feel that I need to make a few confessions that make this split difficult.
> 
> 1) I am afraid to be on my own - even though I know my wife will not have kids and will not put me before her family.
> 
> 2) I have a couple of very minor health issues, eg bp, probably as a result of my relationship stress and it is nice to have someone beside you, albeit she is not always here and gone when i needed her most at the time.
> 
> 3) Perhaps the biggest thing is what if I can not get another woman in my life. For background info, I studied law at uni and became a solicitor and then trained in accountancy and became a very senior accountant at a big 4 firm. I then left my profession to become a full time gambler. I have since paid all my mortgage and have implemented a "5 year rule" where my wife has 5 years worth of living and holiday expenses separate to my profession so there is no pressure. I am good at what I do and have expanded my profession where it does not solely rely on my gambling success. My wife accepts this as she has seen the rewards and lifestyle. If I was to leave my wife which other person, especially in the indian community, would be ok with this.
> 
> I am very unhappy with my marriage but am very happy with my life in terms of my profession due to the freedom and reward that it gives me.
> 
> I am depressed about my situation. My brother thinks the solution is simple. I let the wife and profession go and go back into working for a big 4 firm and attact another woman. The thing is I love what I do.


you dont have a women in your life now!! WHat would be the difference...you are a financer...nothing more to her...


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## IcePrincess28

No offense- but you will find plenty of other gold diggers to easily replace her. 

And as for finding another woman to love you? She never loved you in the first place. Her parents are not holding her captive in the USA. Her mother is not either. 

I'm a Chinese immigrant, with a VERY traditional and controlling mother. They can not make you do anything you do not want to do, once you're an adult.


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## SamuraiJack

IcePrincess is correct.
You need to stand up for what YOU want.

Remain a gambler if that suits you.
Just dump the absentee wife and find another lady who will appreciate you for your time.

It's not rocket science.
She isnt there most of the time. 
To me, that's just cruel and an open invitation to get some love elsewhere.


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## kalimata

UKHubby:

Have you ever considered the fact that your wife may be having a long-term affair with another man in the US? Why else would she want to visit there for prolonged periods of time?

This whole business of having the MIL dictate where/when her daughter lives seems quite outrageous to me. If the MIL was raised in India, then she would know that it is the wife's role to take care of the husband and his family.

If you have the means, it might be revealing to have a private investigator follow your wife around in the US for a few days. See where she goes. If she is shagging another man then it could explain everything.


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## IcePrincess28

I'm not trying to offend you by calling your wife a gold digger. 

i'm just thoroughly upset for you. She's living however she wants, in a completely different country. All while making sure you do not have a life without her. She knows how co-dep you are. You rely on her for happiness. 

She is Indian. You are Indian. How are you not aware of the common Indian practice of having the grandparents live in the same household as wife and husband- during which they help with the grandkids? 

Her mother is demanding and in your face- but thats how alot of them are. (my mother is the same way- if she smells weakness- she will jump on it and make demands). This has nothing to do with your wife being in the middle of all of this. 

On top of it all- how coincidental is it that when you guys get married- she all of a sudden is a dedicated daughter to her parents? I doubt she is taking care of them financially. I think she is stockpiling her money- while using yours whenever she is in the UK. 

You will find love again. There are plenty of Indian women that will accept you for how you are- bc it allows them to know that you will be able to afford to pay for "good" private education, tutors, music teachers, and everything us Asians think is "necessary" to pave the path to a good college. 

But what are we having this conversation for? You'll never have kids if you stay with her. Kids? Not in your lifetime. Please wake up and smell the coffee. She is selfish! You're a selfless good man getting taken advantage of.


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## U.E. McGill

Oh she's a gold digger.


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## synthetic

Is this thread real?! LOL!

You don't have a wife dude. You have a leech. A destructive selfish one. 

There are millions of women who would easily outclass your crappy wife in every department including empathy for you! 

File for divorce and never waste time talking to those stupid in-laws again. You're far better than you think you are. You deserve far more than you think you do. 

Get real and divorce her selfish ass. She's worthless as a spouse.


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