# People Obsessed with Sex on TAM



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.

A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........ 

I read continual threads where people are upset if they are having sex less then daily. Who are you people????

I feel like a freak wishing for sex 2-3x's/wk and thinking how content I'd be. Heck not sure if I could keep up with daily sex or whether it would be fun after a while. Add to that I read that I probably need testosterone shots, because I don't want it more.

Trust me, my spouse would be aghast reading how much sex people on here are having (or expect). Add to that everyone expecting pornstar sex lasting hours, multiple orgasms, and all the men lasting 10-60 minutes on average.

Do you have time for work, family, hobbies and time to read and respond to 20 different threads too on TAM???


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I have never seen a post here where anyone implies anything less than daily sex is sexless.

Where is this posted?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

It has been my impression that people on TAM say they average 2-3 times a week. Here is a thread with a poll:

Talk About Marriage - View Poll Results


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Haven't you seen the most recent "how often" poll? Something like 2-3/week average from those TAM members responding.

I've never felt all the members have sex daily, or even suggest that is the norm.

Edited to add... lovesherman beat me to it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I haven't a clue what you're talking about.
> 
> I have never seen a post here where anyone implies anything less than daily sex is sexless.
> 
> ...


I am trying to just have fun.... Of course no says that.... However the # on here who claim daily is not out of the ordinary is skewed.

Add to that those who give advise that if you don't want it, then just blow him if he sticks his **** near you I find offensive.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I am trying to just have fun.... Of course no says that.... However the # on here who claim daily is not out of the ordinary is skewed.
> 
> Add to that those who give advise that if you don't want it, then just blow him if he sticks his **** near you I find offensive.


When I read your posts, it just seems like you are really troubled and angry.

What was your childhood like?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

As to those having daily sex (multiple times at that!) you know what the old saying is...it's those who talk about it so much that aren't doing it.


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## Tamar456 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey, that's true! I've been reading this thread for a long time, and it seems that everyone's lives here revolve around sex. Why would a person with a normal sexuality even bother to show up here?

But OP: as that is the case, people will not admit it here.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm obsessed with sex.

Your welcome.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

In my honest opinion as a 46 year old man who used to do the same thing back in my late teens to maybe late 20's before I grew up, there's A LOT of fabricating going on on here and in many other places and I just take it all with a grain of salt and laugh a little. 

*You can pretty much tell who is in their late teens to maybe late 20's on here without them saying a word about age*


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## Mrs.K (Apr 12, 2012)

This is the SEX IN MARRIAGE board! Of course all the topics are going to be about sex.

I don't see members here obsessed with sex. I see people trying to improve their sex lives and strengthen their marriages.

Everyone has a right to their opinion but starting a post like this is senseless.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I just think that there really is an unrealistic view about what is normal on TAM and the advise given. 

Here is a thread where two younger women claim wanting it daily with their older husbands.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/32350-younger-woman-older-man.html

Of course they do not fully understand it is the age difference that is the issue.

Any post from a woman who talks about her spouse wanting too much sex is met with what SHE NEEDS TO DO and that she should GIVE BJ's to make up for the gap. Seldom is it said that heck yep he should be okay 1-2X/wk of quality fun sex.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-once-month-why-should-i-have-more-often.html

Fine don't agree with me..... I just was making an observation based on what I have read and yes did exaggerate the point for effect.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't find that people on this board are obsessed with sex. It is a wonderful place to hear honest discussion of the issues that people confront in their marriages. It is true that people with happy sex lives are in the minority here because the unhappy ones were moved to seek advice and so found this forum.

Sex is huge in marriage; it is the only relationship in our lives where it is expressed. It is how we love each other, and one of the greatest pleasures that we can experience in life.


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> 
> ...


I am obsessed with sex... take me to the BEAVER! Whoops meant leader. Ha!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sex is only 10% of a marriage. Unless you're not getting enough. Then it's 90%.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Star (Dec 6, 2009)

CandieGirl said:


> As to those having daily sex (multiple times at that!) you know what the old saying is...it's those who talk about it so much that aren't doing it.


Haha, I think the term you are looking for is " those that brag, never [email protected]"

I take a lot of what people write about frequency with a pinch of salt.

I keep my frequency to myself, as long as me and hubs are fine with how often that's all that matters at the end of the day and not what others are doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I just think that there really is an unrealistic view about what is normal on TAM and the advise given.
> 
> Here is a thread where two younger women claim wanting it daily with their older husbands.
> 
> ...


in the thread you quoted, wife wants it once a month, and there was quite a bit of advice on compromising. What I see a lot of is the urging that both spouses recognise that they have marital responsibilities and that in order to have a satisfying marriage, those responsibilties should be addressed.

It's not just sex on TAM, the infidelity board is usually pretty busy too. It seems one of the biggest problems in marriage revolves around some aspect of intimacy, why wouldn't it be talked about a lot amongst others going through similiar situations?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Any post from a woman who talks about her spouse wanting too much sex is met with what SHE NEEDS TO DO and that she should GIVE BJ's to make up for the gap. Seldom is it said that heck yep he should be okay 1-2X/wk of quality fun sex.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-once-month-why-should-i-have-more-often.html


It seems you`re injecting facts not in the posts you cite though.

Here you say..

"Seldom is it said that heck yep he should be okay 1-2X/wk of quality fun sex."

About a thread where a woman is complaining because she can`t seem to understand why sex once a month in a marriage isn`t enough for her husband, not 1-2 times a week but once a month ONLY when she`s ovulating and in the mood..

Then there`s the fact that the thread in question doesn`t really advocate for "fun quality" sex but more like "Chore sex" which I don`t see as either fun or quality.

It just seems the thing you`re complaining about doesn`t exist.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I think the OP is delusional if he/she thinks spouses who are deprived of physical contact that includes sex are responsible for the problems in their marriage. Over the twenty years that I was married, things dwindled down to a handshake as being "it" after about seven years. That's not to say there was no sex, but seldom more that twice a month and sometimes nothing in six weeks.
This, all the while my ex having it with others while I was woking to provide for her and the two children that tow of her studs had provided her.
Now that I'm single, I could have it more often, but since I don't intend to stay in any relationship for more than a few weeks, other than maintain a friendship, I don't.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

My wife and I have sex every day. I wouldn't say I am obsessed with sex but I really really really really really ...(later that day)... really really like it. I'm in my late 40's and she is counting the days until my drive lowers. Sex is wonderful! I love talking about it, thinking about it, engaging in it. 

You strike me as someone who is getting more than enough sex and therefore can't imagine what all the fuss is about. Imagine you never got it. Or got it infrequently. Or only got it half-heartedly as a reward for doing something. There's lots of folks like that out there and they can't help but obsess about it because they are not in a healthy sexual relationship as you appear to be.

So I say, let's keep talking about it, thinking about it, and above all doing it! So keep it up guys, and ladies, keep it tight.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

Conrad said:


> When I read your posts, it just seems like you are really troubled and angry.
> 
> What was your childhood like?


I dont think she sounds troubled or angry I think she gets tired of people put in boxes and every body is the same. She has said that saying all men are one way or all women are another isnt right. 
I find your question a dismissal and you ask it many times but weird only about women. I would like to hear about your childhood that you think only women have childhood issues. I have met both men and women who have issues from bad parents.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Hungry people obsess about food.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> Hungry people obsess about food.


That is true. I think this was worded wrong. I think what she was meaning was about a post where the husband got sex 5 times a week and others called the wife selfish.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> That is true. I think this was worded wrong. I think what she was meaning was about a post where the husband got sex 5 times a week and others called the wife selfish.


Well she is, because he wants it everyday if not more!!!!!!!


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Sex is like oxygen... You really don't think about it until you're not getting it!!


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## Laureen (Apr 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> My wife and I have sex every day. I wouldn't say I am obsessed with sex but I really really really really really ...(later that day)... really really like it. I'm in my late 40's and she is counting the days until my drive lowers. Sex is wonderful! I love talking about it, thinking about it, engaging in it.
> 
> 
> So I say, let's keep talking about it, thinking about it, and above all doing it! So keep it up guys, and ladies, keep it tight.


I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager. 

Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex. 

If your wife is counting the days til your sex drive lowers, why in the hell would you be having daily sex? You DO sound like someone obsessed if you cannot give your wife a few nights of peace per week. Sex IS important in a marriage. It is important that when ONE does not feel like it, she is not doing it to 'keep you happy'... This is an area of negotiation. I can tell you that when my desire for daily sex, fell down to a few days a week and my husband would push and beg and grind the other nights until I finally gave in (force), soon my drive dwindled to never bet I still had to do it all the time in order to 'make him happy' so I could get rest. 

It is selfish, disrespectful and abusive to be having it daily when you clearly know damn right well that she does not want it daily. Not giving you a hard time here but just giving you the perspective of a woman who is married to man with a drive like yours. 

Today, while we are working on our marriage I want NOTHING to do with sex - now that he is actually being respectful and not insisting on it daily and making it a requirement in order that I get peace. Today, he is willing to negotiate it and accept 2 to 3 nights a week and unfortunately, now that he has spent so many years abusing this area of our relationship, I am still just 'giving in' on those occasions. I DO get turned on. I DO want sex. I AM responsive and often I am throbbing when I get into bed, but I look at HIM and it is GONE! So, I quietly scream in my head while I paste on a smile and pretend that I want it those 2 to 3 times a week. 

No, I am NOT screwed up. NO, I am NOT a prude. I LOVE sex.. the problem is I don't trust or respect him in the bedroom any longer because he spent years thinking ONLY about HIS desires and never caring for a second about me. 

So, if you know your wife does not feel like it daily and she is doing it daily anyways - with a smile on her face - she may be carrying resentments against you. You are very unfair to HER. It is cruel and abusive.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Like others have said in the 1x/month thread the main message conveyed back was don't just have sex 1x/month like it's a chore. Explore what the issue is with a therapist and compromised.

I don't think that makes for a sex obsessed message, it's a word of warning to her before he embarks on a path that will almost undoubtedly lead to heart break and/or divorce.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I am surprised you didn't broaden your scope. 

It's not just TAM, it's a lot of our society in general, and really, it's a lot of the essence of the human condition.

We may see more emphasis on it because of our constantly plugged in, instant gratification society, but I think it's always been there ... thrumming along in the veins of men and women alike since the beginning of time.

Now... trying to effectively manage the 'obsession' to the betterment (as opposed to the detriment) of BOTH spouses and the marriage is a tricky, yet fundamental and fulfilling, thing that is so often difficult to do - hence the issues and emphasis we see on TAM.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Star said:


> Haha, I think the term you are looking for is " those that brag, never [email protected]"
> 
> I take a lot of what people write about frequency with a pinch of salt.
> 
> ...


Agree with this 100%; and when you are young you always think you're fooling someone or pulling the wool over their eyes - it's all part of being young.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. What you said is helpful for my own situation laureen.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> *Yes, I consider that for me anything less than daily sex is unacceptable.
> Thankfully Morrigan agrees with me. *
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mistys dad said:


> I'm obsessed with sex.


 Line me up against the wall.... I'll admit it too .... I enjoy talking about sex, thinking about sex and having sex.... why sugar coat it . Thank God my husband enjoys it too -or I'd be an one angry ranting poster here! 

Truth is....I even posted on a Sex Addiction forum before I landed here. I was going through SOMETHING over the top -what you men in puberty deal with.....it was taking over my mind... loved it ...but it was tormenting at the same time... and well.. this C R A Z Y experience opened my eyes to things I have been missing in my marraige for far far too many years.... I've cried buckets over it....wanting to go back in time...wish my husband was stiff 3 times a day...I envy all you women. 

So here I am.... I speak about it. What we have learned through our experience.... HIS PAIN.... my ignorance ..... *where WE missed it communicatively*... it was never deliberate or on purpose.... Does it have any value .....I don't know!

It seems most men on here are not like MY husband... so maybe not. He never pushed himself on me, nor did he ever, even for a day....deprive me of emotional fullfillment ...like many women on here complain in their marraiges..I can not relate to that.... so all that leaves me is... I was the bad one, I was the neglectful one !! .... So now I am very very hotly passionate on the other side -because of my own mistakes & regrets in this life. 

In it's own way...it has been a Therapy FOR ME to write here, I hope you all can put up with me ! To slowly let go our my many regrets of not being there sexually for my husband in the way he NEEDED, craved and missed... If I can spare some others this ignorant fate in their early marraiges -if they are married to these GOOD MEN.... to help them understand what I didn't...but so easily could have .... had I had some sexual mentors in my life inspiring me...how valuable! 

I feel RDJ was the Best mentor for men here ..and he took some slack for it.... he has moved on it seems. Some men chewed him out. He missed it fighting with his wife cause he wanted MORE SEX, he had that raging drive that younger men struggle with... (I get it !).... then growing older realizing he was missing the emotional -what his wife needed from him (Oh the big divide between the sexes!) 


Even if a handful can be influenced by my words....then in MY EYES...it was worth the telling. 

I am no longer Sex addicted (believe it or not)... ..I need forplay again!....but our marraige has taken new wings - climbed to greater heights I never imagined ....due to my revelatioins during that 8 month sex obsession frenzy... where I remained totally faithful ... but darn was I ever having some fantasies going on! 

So you'll have to excuse some of us more passionate posters here. I'm guilty as sin ....and loving it anyway !! 

Someday all of THIS may come crashing down, my husband worries menapause will do me in..becoming a passion of the past.....so he is going to take what he can get... but somehow I'm banking that won't touch what I have learned and felt so deeply in how it has enhanced ....US. 

My bet is on ME.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


Hi Laureen,

Your post makes me sad. There are likely a lot of women who 'suck it up' until they just can't anymore.

I guess I am a firm believer in being truthful...and not sucking things up just for the sake of keeping the peace.

If my husband would not have been willing to hear me out and would not have been willing to work with me to sort out our differences in the disparity of our drives, then our marriage would have been surely doomed to fail.

No one needs to stay silent in their marriage. Everyone does have choices, albeit they may be very difficult - including the choice of whether they want to continue to feed the beast of resentment from past hurts.

Wishing you the best as you move forward, Laureen.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

I always love your posts, SA. From prairie muffin to sex kitten 
I can identify with a lot of what you say, especially wishing that you knew back then what you know now.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I married my wife to have an ongoing love affair with her, to be her best male friend and to be her husband to raise our children and enjoy life together.

Marriage for me is a sexual relationship. I believe that having a satifying sexual relationship with your spouse is vitally important. It may not be the only thing but it is a requirement.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OldGirl said:


> I always love your posts, SA. From prairie muffin to sex kitten
> I can identify with a lot of what you say, especially wishing that you knew back then what you know now.


 Prairie Muffin...No, I am the Cowgirl now. I know I speak alot of MUSH on this forum too ... but damn it - I DO speak it all from the heart, whatever the emotion.

And...... REGRETS SUCK !  I hate 'em, want to drown them in the ocean. I still want a time machine sometimes.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

OldGirl said:


> I always love your posts, SA. From prairie muffin to sex kitten
> I can identify with a lot of what you say, especially wishing that you knew back then what you know now.


Whenever I read one of SA's post I truely think that the key to world peace would be for each woman to have a nice dose of testosterone for one week and guys to experience PMS. Maybe not at the same time...that could trigger the apocalypse. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## padgalen (Apr 14, 2012)

"I just think that there really is an unrealistic view about what is normal on TAM and the advise given. 

Here is a thread where two younger women claim wanting it daily with their older husbands."

urely the issue is not about what is "normal" , btu about disparity in expectations between the two partners. If one wants it a lot, and the other doesnt, what wrong with the other doing something for them ,eg BJ or HJ or whatever? ISnt that about doing something loving for your partner and helping them with their needs?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Sex, ladies and gentlemen ... is what enabled you to log onto the internet and read this post. Even as I type ... millions of people across the globe ... are knocking boots.

Of course ... terms and conditions apply. Please see your partner for additional details.

Sex, is being. Take away that preoccupation, for any species ... and they will not remain a species for long.

It is why we are different ... and why our differences bring us together, whether we don't take out the trash, or listen with vigorous intent about what happened on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

Sexual dimorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just don't hate on the male triplewart seadevil. He has enough self-esteem issues.


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## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

hubby said:


> Whenever I read one of SA's post I truely think that the key to world peace would be for each woman to have a nice dose of testosterone for one week and guys to experience PMS. Maybe not at the same time...that could trigger the apocalypse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY! :rofl:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
Lmao here reading your posts on this.

She posts "I am VERY willing to give him bjs, maybe I could get him to go for that."

That is the wife talking. Yes she would happily receive a back rub, which she likes and give a bj.

Sadly her H has a scorecard that demands he give her an O. If she doesn't have an O, he has a problem with that.

Maybe you and he are related? 

As for your posts in general. Your sex life seems to leave you really unhappy - and your competitive nature just makes it worse.






Havesomethingtosay said:


> I am trying to just have fun.... Of course no says that.... However the # on here who claim daily is not out of the ordinary is skewed.
> 
> Add to that those who give advise that if you don't want it, then just blow him if he sticks his **** near you I find offensive.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm totally obssessed with sex. During my first marriage I closed those needs off to keep my sanity (married to alcoholic). After I left him I went on a self exploration mission...so I could figure out what I liked and how I liked it without any messy emotional crap getting in the way. Finally I have a man I love and trust and he has ED issues which keep him from approaching me as often as I'd like. So yeah....I'm obssessed. It's all I think about some days.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

Star said:


> Haha, I think the term you are looking for is " those that brag, never [email protected]"
> 
> I take a lot of what people write about frequency with a pinch of salt.
> 
> ...


Back in my home country there is a saying translates to "Those who kiss and tell arent kissing but telling stories instead" I wonder about some. If the sex life is so great why feel the need to always tell the world about it? Keep it to your self and be happy. I think those who say to much arent telling the truth. 
Sex is great. Keep it special. If it is a problem I under stand asking for help but if great, why say what happens?


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> 
> ...


Even as tongue in check this is ridiculous. 



It is quite normal and expected that where there is a significant gap the LD spouse should feel some responsibility to bridge the gap just as the HD spouse has to accept he or she shouldn't feel victimized if sex isn't instantly available on demand. 

The difficult truth that LD spouses don't want to hear (and I don't consider those who don't want it every single day as necessarily LD) is that they have an obligation to deal with the gap. It is not a case of "well I just don't it as much so therefore I give up and it is not my problem."

I can only assume that for the OP the sex lives of others leads to feelings of inadequacy that in the constant human quest to normalize our own behaviour requires that others be labelled as "obsessive" rather then just being happy for them and not feel the need to match it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lionel,
This is a very good observation. 



OTE=Lionelhutz;681604]Even as tongue in check this is ridiculous. 



It is quite normal and expected that where there is a significant gap the LD spouse should feel some responsibility to bridge the gap just as the HD spouse has to accept he or she shouldn't feel victimized if sex isn't instantly available on demand. 

The difficult truth that LD spouses don't want to hear (and I don't consider those who don't want it every single day as necessarily LD) is that they have an obligation to deal with the gap. It is not a case of "well I just don't it as much so therefore I give up and it is not my problem."

I can only assume that for the OP the sex lives of others leads to feelings of inadequacy that in the constant human quest to normalize our own behaviour requires that others be labelled as "obsessive" rather then just being happy for them and not feel the need to match it.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Star said:


> Haha, I think the term you are looking for is " those that brag, never [email protected]"
> 
> I take a lot of what people write about frequency with a pinch of salt.
> 
> ...


Exactly; and I would complain about sexless too...those who follow me might have noticed I'm not complaining so much about that anymore . And that's all I'm going to say about that!


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## Laureen (Apr 3, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Hi Laureen,
> 
> Your post makes me sad. There are likely a lot of women who 'suck it up' until they just can't anymore.
> 
> ...


I hear you loud and clear. But this is where I HAVE made hard choices. If I now NEVER want it and he will now negotiate ALL areas of our lives (and he is trying very hard to be a good partner these days - as am I. His cruel treatment invaded every area and I did NOT do the hard things back then. Leaving would have been right a long time ago. I withdrew from our marriage and hid in bottle instead) then indeed, I absolutely MUST still negotiate that area of our lives. Sex, after all, IS very important in a marriage. 

The fact is I firmly believe I will divorce him but I have chosen to give us each time to find a place in our marriage where we are comfortable with each other. So, until that decision is actually made, I absolutely DO have to do those things I no longer want to do. I don't believe I will ever trust him again or feel warm feelings for him again. And indeed, it is sad because there was a time when I loved him so deeply... It is very very sad and that is exactly the reason I shared it. 

To try to give this guy a little glimpse of what may be happening inside his wifes heart and head every time she engages 'daily' while wishing he had a lower drive. I don't care how fantastic everything is in the marriage. She could be treated like a treasure in all areas... But, if sex is being required daily then really, of what value is REALLY being placed on her? 

While I understand what you have said, if two people are staying together because there is a commitment to put time and effort into saving a marriage then one cannot 'opt out' of sex. But both can negotiate for what is acceptable for both parties. I cannot just refuse to do it when I don't want to because we would just never have sex. Not acceptable for him! Thank you for your kindness.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


Wow. Sounds more like a business relationship rather than a marriage. Does she do it when she doesn't feel like it. Yes she does. Do I take out the garbage or mow the lawn when I don't feel like it? Yes I do. Did I go shopping for a new mattress with her just yesterday, WITH A MIGRANE, when I didn't feel like it. You are DANG right I did. Why?

Because we love each OTHER. Not ourselves. She gives, I take. I give, she takes. 

I'm abusive and cruel? Excuse me? Do you know me? So if loving sex with my wife, if finding her fricken' HOT, if desiring her 24/7 is abusive and cruel then call me Hitler. Geez, talk about judgmental.


----------



## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> Having a wife being obsessed with Sex could be a really good thing.
> 
> Just think of all the free thinking time we would have.
> 
> ...



Only if her husband is on the same page .


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Our disparity in desire really helped me to better understand and love my wife. 

UOTE=Enchantment;681414]I am surprised you didn't broaden your scope. 

It's not just TAM, it's a lot of our society in general, and really, it's a lot of the essence of the human condition.

We may see more emphasis on it because of our constantly plugged in, instant gratification society, but I think it's always been there ... thrumming along in the veins of men and women alike since the beginning of time.

Now... trying to effectively manage the 'obsession' to the betterment (as opposed to the detriment) of BOTH spouses and the marriage is a tricky, yet fundamental and fulfilling, thing that is so often difficult to do - hence the issues and emphasis we see on TAM. [/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


Your husband must be the happiest man on the whole dang planet. You have a great sense of humor! Sounds like you *might* be fairly decent in bed too. Good for him! :smthumbup:

I think I'm going to start a new thread called "My Wife Isn't Sarcastic Enough." Because frankly, I need more sarcasm from her. How do I get her to become more sarcastic anyway? Do you think it's her diet?


----------



## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


You outdid yourself, LF!! People can hear me laughing in the next county!


----------



## Suzyque (Apr 6, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> 
> ...


Have I agree with you.

Although as someone mentioned, this is the sex forum, but I got the idea that you were referring to all the fora and not only this particular one.

And as someone else said, we are hardwired to obsess over sex.

But depending on my mood, it is either funny or somewhat irritating when women and men paint themselves to be smokin hot sex machines in every post. Like you said, anything else going on in those minds/relationships/lives?

Also, some people are intensely private and, like one poster mentioned, don't tend to share those details with others unless seeking help for a problem. Other types are very social and enjoy putting all their thoughts out there. To each his/her own.

If you're wanting to share an issue like that, oddly enough I wouldn't suggest this thread--try the "Thinking about divorce or separation." There is a whole lot less bravado (and maybe more honesty).


----------



## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> "Sounds like you *might* be fairly decent in bed too."
> 
> 
> Thanks. I think. :scratchhead:
> ...


You mean that wonderful post was all sarcasm???!!!!


Too bad. Luckily I had already written to Santa Claus asking for a wife just like that. Next thing you will be telling me he didn't get my letter.


----------



## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


Are you trying to be funny? She was saying what she sees here and I do to. A bunch of complaining about sex that no matter how much it isnt good enough. He wont do this, she wont do that. A lot of anger towards spouses that no matter what they do it doesnt matter. I have read posts about things that make my skin crawl. It seems like many want sex on command and to act in a way they dont want to. Maybe it was said to upset people but I have read it here.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> "Sounds like you *might* be fairly decent in bed too."
> 
> 
> Thanks. I think. :scratchhead:
> ...


I guess I need to work on my sarcasm too. I forget not everyone knows me.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


I`m saving this post to a text file.

I`m just going to save it for when I really need a smile.

:rofl:


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

sandc said:


> I guess I need to work on my sarcasm too. I forget not everyone knows me.


yeah, have to have at least 500 posts here to be taken seriously on your sarcasm.


----------



## Laureen (Apr 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Wow. Sounds more like a business relationship rather than a marriage. Does she do it when she doesn't feel like it. Yes she does. Do I take out the garbage or mow the lawn when I don't feel like it? Yes I do. Did I go shopping for a new mattress with her just yesterday, WITH A MIGRANE, when I didn't feel like it. You are DANG right I did. Why?
> 
> Because we love each OTHER. Not ourselves. She gives, I take. I give, she takes.
> 
> I'm abusive and cruel? Excuse me? Do you know me? So if loving sex with my wife, if finding her fricken' HOT, if desiring her 24/7 is abusive and cruel then call me Hitler. Geez, talk about judgmental.



I did not judge you. I referred to something that you, yourself wrote. You stated that you do it every day and that your wife is counting the days until your drive diminishes. Yes, you are cruel and abusive if you have sex with a person who you know wishes you wanted less sex. If she wishes your sex drive is lower but has sex with you DAILY then indeed, she does not WANT it daily otherwise she would not wish that!! DUH!! 

You are offended because someone suggested to you that your wife may be doing something against her will which means that if you put her first, you may not get things YOUR WAY. 

And you ARE right. My marriage HAS become a business relationship and it is not all about his behavior in our bedroom. It is everywhere in the marriage but I must say, even if he was 100 % perfect in every other way and showed me every day that I was important to him.... it would have meant nothing if every single night I had to have sex to shut him up. It IS selfish and abusive to do something to/with someone when you know they don't want to, just because YOU want to. 

I am extremely desirable which my husband claims is the reason why he wants it so often. Soooo..... I should just say, "OMG!!! I am so flipping flattered that you want to stick your body parts in mine AGAIN because I have such a bangin body that you cannot act your age and show some respect for me?" Um, I don't think so... SO, we now have an 'arrangement'. I sincerely hope that instead of being offended and becoming defensive again, that you take seriously the words of other people who can speak from the bitter experience you are talking about, from the womans point of view. Sex is NOT all about YOU. It is about what BOTH of you desire from each other and it should be negotiated so BOTH parties are comfortable with the frequency.


----------



## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

MominMayberry said:


> I have read posts about things that make my skin crawl. It seems like many want sex on command and to act in a way they dont want to. Maybe it was said to upset people but I have read it here.


I'm not trying to be merely argumentative but I haven't seen that at all, anything close to it or anything that could be mistaken for that.

There are a few trolls or clueless people who post with odd expectations but it is not like they are given wide support.

I haven't seen anyone claim to expect sex on demand or a wide round of support from posters saying "Well of course, daily and instant gratification, is normal married life"


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Laureen said:


> I did not judge you. I referred to something that you, yourself wrote. You stated that you do it every day and that your wife is counting the days until your drive diminishes. Yes, you are cruel and abusive if you have sex with a person who you know wishes you wanted less sex. If she wishes your sex drive is lower but has sex with you DAILY then indeed, she does not WANT it daily otherwise she would not wish that!! DUH!!
> 
> You are offended because someone suggested to you that your wife may be doing something against her will which means that if you put her first, you may not get things YOUR WAY.
> 
> ...


You are one uptight lady. You're projecting your bad relationship with your husband on everyone else. Well, actually just me right now. I'm going to ask my wife to respond to this a little later. She can tell you how oppressed she is firsthand. I promise it will be her typing. I'll just be standing behind her with my trusty caveman club in my hand making sure she says exactly what I want her to. 

Honestly though, I hope you and your husband work things out.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> yeah, have to have at least 500 posts here to be taken seriously on your sarcasm.


Copy that.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Any post from a woman who talks about her spouse wanting too much sex is met with what SHE NEEDS TO DO and that she should GIVE BJ's to make up for the gap. Seldom is it said that heck yep he should be okay 1-2X/wk of quality fun sex.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-once-month-why-should-i-have-more-often.html


You are completely mis-representing the issue. The OP in the thread you linked was taken to task because (1) she wanted to decree a standard for sex, (2) was unwilling to address her low drive as a potential issue, and (3) acted as if her husband does not push himself for her (like her sacrifice was one-sided).

Besides, who makes you the arbiter of sex? Why should a man be content with weekly sex? What is your standard of "fun"? I doubt you would agree a woman should tolerate her needs being once a week or when her husband feels like it, which means that either (1) you think that "sex is different" (counts for more than other acts of service) or (2) that a man has a higher burden than the woman to provide and sacrifice.

That attitude comes through loud and clear. And, it really does sound as bad as what I've typed above. That's why people who bring that mindset ("sex counts for more", "I matter more", "I'm the only one who sacrifices") get beat-up somewhat here.


----------



## Laureen (Apr 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> You are one uptight lady. You're projecting your bad relationship with your husband on everyone else. Well, actually just me right now. I'm going to ask my wife to respond to this a little later. She can tell you how oppressed she is firsthand. I promise it will be her typing. I'll just be standing behind her with my trusty caveman club in my hand making sure she says exactly what I want her to.
> 
> Honestly though, I hope and your husband work things out.



Hey, whatever you say. Maybe you still miss the part of you having it every day and she wishes your drive was lower. And THAT is the part I replied to. As I said, even if my husband treated me like I was important to him in EVERY WAY, EVERY DAY... It would not matter in the end if I HAD to have sex every day when I did not want to every day. 

And I am absolutely NOT uptight. I just don't want it from my husband any longer. And I cannot go there with someone else until I get a divorce. So, while I work on the marriage I do what I have to do - a couple of days a week. 

And if I loved my husband and he was feeling attacked on a message board, I might jump to his defense too, while quietly enduring the daily grind and saying it is all good.... even though I don't want to every day, no problem honey as long as YOU'RE happy!!! 

It is pointless for you to post something if nobody is allowed to reply to you with any point of view that does not support your thoughts. I now think you posted it to boast to your male counterparts, otherwise you would take a woman's point of view seriously. So, I am done conversing with a boaster.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Laureen said:


> Hey, whatever you say. Maybe you still miss the part of you having it every day and she wishes your drive was lower. And THAT is the part I replied to. As I said, even if my husband treated me like I was important to him in EVERY WAY, EVERY DAY... It would not matter in the end if I HAD to have sex every day when I did not want to every day.
> 
> And I am absolutely NOT uptight. I just don't want it from my husband any longer. And I cannot go there with someone else until I get a divorce. So, while I work on the marriage I do what I have to do - a couple of days a week.
> 
> ...


Um... no, you're right. We're done.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


I, for one, totally hear what you are saying. But your post sounds like your husband was lacking in several other areas. By contrast, the OP linked to a post where the wife admits he is a great guy yet she still wants to cut him way down. So, in a way it sounds like two different issues.

In your case, it's important to ask whether you would have been okay with your husband keeping his non-sexual service to you at the same level as your sexual service to him. Would you be okay with him talking about your life weekly, for instance?

The problem that I see often is that many times the answer to that question is "no". The woman has this admittedly great husband, except that he wants too much sex. Eventually the discussion turns to "you BOTH are getting lots of what you want right now; you can change if you want but you risk getting less as you give less".

At that point, many women (including that link) become indignant. They deny that their husbands also sacrifice and do things they don't want. Or they assert that sex is somehow different than the normal marital give and take. Or they assert that the man should be the main sacrificer and the woman is entitled to not try as hard or give as much.


----------



## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


Lady - You're going to get me in trouble with my husband. I keep laughing out loud, and he keeps asking me what's so funny. I just mumble about "crazy people on this forum". 
I'd like to read to him what you wrote, but he's a bit on the conservative side, bless his heart, and I'm afraid he'd be a bit shocked.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I didn't take offense; I thought it was hilarious. I was being sarcastic again. (far be it from me )
> 
> I knew exactly how you meant it and it was a great shot!  Five gold stars.


Cool! You've restored my faith in the fairer sex. 

Well, time to go find my cavewoman.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> Are you trying to be funny? She was saying what she sees here and I do to. A bunch of complaining about sex that no matter how much it isnt good enough. He wont do this, she wont do that. A lot of anger towards spouses that no matter what they do it doesnt matter. I have read posts about things that make my skin crawl. It seems like many want sex on command and to act in a way they dont want to. Maybe it was said to upset people but I have read it here.


You know, I really think that the brunt of the problem (at least in some cases) is not that people want sex on demand in a vacuum but that the LD people want their spouses to back off on sex yet keep their own output at the same high level.

My ex wanted to cut sex down to a minimum (once a month of bland intercourse). Yet, she expected me to continue to be the super-husband who paid all the bills and and did most of the chores. I tried to initiate a discussion that we could work something out if she was willing to bring her expectations down in line with her contributions, but she wasn't having it.

Having been there, I see a great deal of that here. I have yet to see someone say "His drive is me wearing out, and I'm willing to take less / give more in other areas to maintain balance". People ignore the fact that effort in a relationship always equalizes if the relationship lasts long enough; if there is an imbalance either the low effort partner will step it up or the high effort partner will wear out and scale back.


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I'm flattered.
> 
> I don't know much about computers. Can I charge you for something like that? :scratchhead:


Honestly you should start a blog. I think your gritty sarcasm, witty asides, snappy rejoinders, and otherwise womanly banter would brighten a lot of people's days. Think of what you do as "The Far Side" but only about sex and in print.

But I'm just a new guy, what do I know? I don't even have 500 posts yet.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Laureen said:


> And you ARE right. My marriage HAS become a business relationship and it is not all about his behavior in our bedroom. It is everywhere in the marriage but I must say, even if he was 100 % perfect in every other way and showed me every day that I was important to him.... it would have meant nothing if every single night I had to have sex to shut him up. It IS selfish and abusive to do something to/with someone when you know they don't want to, just because YOU want to.


Does this sentiment apply only to sex, or does it apply to other areas of the marriage as well? If your husband had sincerely said "my drive is simply that high. I really respect your needs, so perhaps the solution is for me to develop some separate interests." Would you be upset, or would you accept less for you as a reasonable part of you being less there for him?


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


:rofl:

That may be the funniest thing I've read all month.


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Don't listen to 2nd. He thinks he knows what he's talking about but in reality he's too busy admiring his tooth that he keeps in a jar.


get back to you when i git out the pool


----------



## OldGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

:lol: I see you're spending Sunday with my cousins there in Tennessee.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


I am posting and commenting on what I read here. There is a poll on how long you last.... I fall short miserably... There wasn't even even a place to answer "two pump chump"......

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/6838-how-does-last.html

Here is the poll where over 70% are having it at least 1X/wk.....

Talk About Marriage - View Poll Results

I was using a compilation of what I read on TAM..... Trust me you don't need to search hard to find it.....


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> get back to you when i git out the pool


Has that guy got two nipples?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
This is a much bigger issue with most women than you might expect.

The woman in a sexless marriage who posted that her H was handsome and succuessful had a huge problem with his:
- oral til I come
- he gets some oral
- he then has intercourse that has never lasted even a minute - usually more like 10 seconds

There are lots of ways to increase stamina. Separate from that you really don't grasp that you are creating a negative association for her:
- she has just finished
- it is very brief

Clearly there is anpartnof your interaction she dislikes. You seem afraid to ask.


OTE=Havesomethingtosay;681959]I am posting and commenting on what I read here. There is a poll on how long you last.... I fall short miserably... There wasn't even even a place to answer "two pump chump"......

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/6838-how-does-last.html

Here is the poll where over 70% are having it at least 1X/wk.....

Talk About Marriage - View Poll Results

I was using a compilation of what I read on TAM..... Trust me you don't need to search hard to find it.....[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> This is a much bigger issue with most women than you might expect.
> 
> The woman in a sexless marriage who posted that her H was handsome and succuessful had a huge problem with his:
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Mem11363 what are you referring too? I was having fun and referring to two threads above. As for the long thread about the woman wanting sex 1X/mth that is a different story and the issues run so deep..... I was only using it as an example in the OP as to what I am saying and people's reaction. The fact that her husband can't last on top of her not wanting sex (if that is what she wrote somewhere in the 250 posts) again proves the point of this thread that no cares about that fact or commented on it.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DTO,
I really felt my wife wanted, needed, demanded a lot. And equally that she gave, offered, did a lot. 

Probably the biggest single difference between my response to bad behavior and very one sided comments was speed. There was no - gee that is grossly unfair and we will talk about it on e or twice a year for the next decade until you realize I am right. 

The worst example was when she found a volunteer job she loved. And I sat her down and said: glad you love it, I will support you open ended provided you mostly figure out how to do you sahm stuff. And I added, I know you dislike written to do lists, without one it may be very difficult to keep up with everything.

And she flat out said "I am not going to keep a written to do list"

A month later i said she could finish the current project, I would be supportive (it was a couple months), and after that she needed to stop.

And we spent 2 months going round in a circle "her: you aren't supporting me, I have alwas supported your job"
"me: we need my job to live, you are choosin to not be organized, and then laying that at my door"

End of the project she brought up signing up for the next one. 
I said only two words "I'll file".

I am sure she resented me/that. If that had spilled into the bedroom - same result. 

At a certain point you draw a bright line in the sand and your partner decides if they want to stay married.

FYI: I am resentful this even happened. It was a blatant attempt to totally ignore me as an equal partner in te marriage.



QUOTE=DTO;681757]I, for one, totally hear what you are saying. But your post sounds like your husband was lacking in several other areas. By contrast, the OP linked to a post where the wife admits he is a great guy yet she still wants to cut him way down. So, in a way it sounds like two different issues.

In your case, it's important to ask whether you would have been okay with your husband keeping his non-sexual service to you at the same level as your sexual service to him. Would you be okay with him talking about your life weekly, for instance?

The problem that I see often is that many times the answer to that question is "no". The woman has this admittedly great husband, except that he wants too much sex. Eventually the discussion turns to "you BOTH are getting lots of what you want right now; you can change if you want but you risk getting less as you give less".

At that point, many women (including that link) become indignant. They deny that their husbands also sacrifice and do things they don't want. Or they assert that sex is somehow different than the normal marital give and take. Or they assert that the man should be the main sacrificer and the woman is entitled to not try as hard or give as much.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I just realized I spelled Martha Stewart's last name wrong (Stuart) in my first post on this thread.
> 
> Knew I shouldn't have vacationed in Tennessee.


:/

shuda stopt bi


----------



## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Has that guy got two nipples?


what do you expect from inbreeding?


----------



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I know, Have...I was just messing around. I don't normally take polls and I try not to put a lot of stock in any of them.
> 
> For my relationship, it varies. Some weeks we spork more than others. But it's always good. And I don't spend a lot of time searching threads about it because fortunately it's not an issue for us. I just think there's too much pressure for people to do what's allegedly considered "normal"
> 
> ...


I know sarcasm and messing around..... I just wanted to clarify some stuff that didn't need to be......


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Beowulf said:


> Has that guy got two nipples?


But... But... But... 

I thought we were supposed to have two nipples? This might explain the laughter at the swimming pool as a youth...

C


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I don't have to be careful of them, or of myself, if I'm one of the ones to whom you are referring. They either really do have great sex lives and like to talk about it, or they don't and pretending they do is a fantasy for them. Either way, how does it hurt?
> 
> I joke about sex alot because I have a skewed sense of humor and frankly, body parts are funny. Am I immature that way? Sure I am; don't deny it. I'm a big old kid. But I can joke around with my younger sons and we have a ball. Life is short.


I post in the Sex in Marriage forum because its a forum about sex and I fortunately have had and continue to get to have sex.

Ummm, why else would one post here?


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I actually think that third nipple thing is kind of cool on guys. More tongue play.
> 
> Didn't Chandler on Friends have a third?


Since he is essentially sitting in a tub of water do you think that third nipple is a slippery nipple?

Sorry, I will go flog myself now.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My husband and I have no quota. We have no score sheet. We just like to be sexual and intimate. 

What is the point of marriage without gratifying, intimate, sexual encounters? I could get every thing else I need from a friend.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> He's in a bad mood. Mrs. C refuses to bl*w him until December and he's in a testosterone war with the Easter Bunny. They are accusing each other of letter intercepting and egg tampering.


Mrs. C got pregnant last year and Santa thought he was the baby's father until the baby came out looking like a big easter egg.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

*QUOTED FOR TRUTH*

(Just about the funniest post I've ever read)



LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> ooooh oooh oooh, Mr. Kot-taire!!! :rofl:
> 
> Ah, home from church. I prayed for world peace, forgiveness, my sanity, AR's turtle and the power to understand how the thermodynamic process unwinds itself inside Entropy's avatar.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Good God! Where do you buy your lube.... from NASA???? I wouldn't worry about blisters so much as I would starting a fire in there:rofl:

Seriously what is the point of this thread? If you want more sex then work it out with your spouse... do something productive instead of complaining about lack of sex, but don't hate on others who love it and need it more often.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I actually think that third nipple thing is kind of cool on guys. More tongue play.
> 
> Didn't Chandler on Friends have a third?


No. It was a nubbin.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Did you mean to quote me?  I was answering what MorningMayberry said.
> 
> I don't mind sex talk. I like it.


I always mean to quote you. You are so very quotable.

I was answering her as well. Your post was closer so I used it to piggyback.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> My husband and I have no quota. We have no score sheet. We just like to be sexual and intimate.
> 
> What is the point of marriage without gratifying, intimate, sexual encounters? I could get every thing else I need from a friend.


or a waiter.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> or a waiter.


I don't have to tip a friend. 

And FrogLady! :rofl: I laughed so loud at your post that my 3 year old said, "SHH! You're too loud, mommy!!"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And much of the time, while I'm chatting on here, and doing other things intermittently, hubs will interupt me or I'll seek him out and we'll get busy  Then I come back and chat some more while folding laundry. 

Like this morning  Sex doesn't have to always be flowers and 2 hours. We have children and a house and a full time job. But we still love sex! 

I'm ready to put the baby down now and go seduce him as he works on the car. 

So, slap my ass and call me a freak, but I enjoy sex with my husband. Oh the humanity.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, why is it okay to not want sex and everyone should be understanding.... but if you really really LIKE sex and WANT it often then you must be an insensitive schmuck????? 

And gosh, if you do enjoy it often you shouldn't mention that either????


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I tell my daughter that sexual compatibility is important. she doesn't want to hear it right now, but hell if she'll waste her life fighting about sex.

life's too short. Too many other things to deal with...why add "Does my spouse think I'm unattractive?" to the list. Geebus.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I wish my oldest thought I am as amusing as you all do. All I get from him is sighs and eyerolls. LOL


My daughter says, "Mom. Stop." -_-



But I totally don't.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

*Jealous.*



Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> Only an immature and unreasonable person would equate less than daily with sexless. Apples and oranges.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> ...


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I don't have to be careful of them, or of myself, if I'm one of the ones to whom you are referring. They either really do have great sex lives and like to talk about it, or they don't and pretending they do is a fantasy for them. Either way, how does it hurt?
> 
> I joke about sex alot because I have a skewed sense of humor and frankly, body parts are funny. Am I immature that way? Sure I am; don't deny it. I'm a big old kid. But I can joke around with my younger sons and we have a ball. Life is short.


I took away my post as I didnt want to upset any body. I was not talking about you. I was talking about those who post all the time about there sex life and to me it is strange.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:lol:

I just laugh at the thought that people who want sex all the time are stupid and lazy 

If I was lazy, i wouldn't want to get naked. :rofl:

I have a husband, 2 kids, a full time teaching job, a house, a dog, reading, hobbies....sex just happens to be a priority that fits nicely into my daily routine 

No shame in my game!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> I took away my post as I didnt want to upset any body. I was not talking about you. I was talking about those who post all the time about there sex life and to me it is strange.


Maybe you're just not that open about sex :scratchhead: I was raised to think sex was gross and dirty...but fact is, it's one of the most natural things humans do. And probably one of the only things most of us have in common.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

that_girl said:


> :lol:
> 
> I just laugh at the thought that people who want sex all the time are stupid and lazy
> 
> ...


Lazy and sex ... the only time the two went together in my thinking was in an old one liner:

Did you hear about the man who was so lazy he married a pregnant woman?


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I feel pity for those who are sexually repressed or frustrated. It must be very difficult, limiting and sad. I can't imagine being married to my husband if he didn't want me. When I read this forum, I realize how blessed we were to have found each other.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Maybe you're just not that open about sex :scratchhead: I was raised to think sex was gross and dirty...but fact is, it's one of the most natural things humans do. And probably one of the only things most of us have in common.


I love sex. I know sex is normal. It is great and wonderful. Its what every person on earth does. I am very open and sex is not shameful to me. It is special and I dont go and tell the world what I do in my bedroom. My best friend doesnt know because I respect what my husband and I do. I dont understand telling people what goes on in the bedroom. It to me is disrespect. There is a person here who uses this site as her diary and details her sex life. It makes me curious. Does she need that validation from people? I dont know but it is odd.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know. Maybe she just doesn't mind? i talk a lot about it, but i don't tell 80% of what goes on in my house 

I think too, being anonymous on here makes it easier to talk about certain things. My friends don't know most of my sexlife unless they ask regarding their own issues, but they also know my husband so it would be awkward when they saw him and i don't want my friends knowing what a stud my man is


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> My daughter says, "Mom. Stop." -_-
> 
> 
> 
> But I totally don't.


Maybe you need to teach her about safe words?

C


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

PBear said:


> Maybe you need to teach her about safe words?
> 
> C


:rofl: not until she's 18.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I note a distinct double standard here. When the man loves and talks about sex, he is some sort of controlling sex fiend. When the women talk about sex, it's cute. Don't get me wrong, I want the ladies to keep talking about it. But folks, don't start hating on me because I love to talk about it too. For many of the same reasons these nice ladies like to talk about it. I enjoy it and it's fun.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But let me ask you this, have you ever had that....not so fresh feeling?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Only while wearing a linen dress and walking through a field of daisies holding hands with my mom.


Right? The last person I'd talk about my unfresh feeling would be my mom. She'd say, Well, did you wash in all your crevices?

But our society is one big double standard.

Everything is sexual but sex, in itself, is wrong and dirty. 

Good girls don't do it and men are just perverts.

And you know this! Man!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I think too, being anonymous on here makes it easier to talk about certain things. My friends don't know most of my sexlife unless they ask regarding their own issues, but they also know my husband so it would be awkward when they saw him and i don't want my friends knowing what a stud my man is


My wife works with two women who are the higher drive person and aren't shy in sharing it with her. I tell her she should share too... but she says that she couldn't be comfortable with me around them after that.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> You won't get hate from me.  Sex is fun.
> 
> It's ok for a TV commercial to show some woman with massive ta-ta's dripping burger sauce down her cleavage and licking her lips like she just got dessert first but it's not ok to talk about sex?
> 
> Think about all the things openly shown on TV. Tampons, maxi pads, lingerie, jock itch and hemorrhoid cream, condoms, vibrators, sex lubricant, bras, ect..........but then, shhhhhhhhh....don't say sex, it's naughty.


I try to think of what my grandfather would say about the commercials now. He got irate at the early 80's commercials, I can't imagine him watching them now.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> And you know this! Man!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> And much of the time, while I'm chatting on here, and doing other things intermittently, hubs will interupt me or I'll seek him out and we'll get busy  Then I come back and chat some more while folding laundry.
> 
> Like this morning  Sex doesn't have to always be flowers and 2 hours. We have children and a house and a full time job. But we still love sex!
> 
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> And gosh, if you do enjoy it often you shouldn't mention that either????


Ya know, I did just that. Didn't help - people will lie to get someone on the hook.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> sex just happens to be a priority that fits nicely into my daily routine


This is the whole deal, right there!

If someone makes sex a priority, then many if not most of our problems would disappear. As long as both spouses are in the home (not living apart), there is always time for it if you prioritize it.

Claims of "I'm too busy" just do not cut it. It's a matter of "will not", not "cannot".


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Well I used to like sex but Havesomethingtosay has made me see the light.. I have been flogging myself since Friday night...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Well I used to like sex but Havesomethingtosay has made me see the light.. I have been flogging myself since Friday night...


Me too!! But now I'm just thinking about a different kind of sex. Sigh.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I think after this thread I'll start obsessing about my obsession to try and not obsess about sex.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> You won't get hate from me.  Sex is fun.
> 
> It's ok for a TV commercial to show some woman with massive ta-ta's dripping burger sauce down her cleavage and licking her lips like she just got dessert first but it's not ok to talk about sex?
> 
> Think about all the things openly shown on TV. Tampons, maxi pads, lingerie, jock itch and hemorrhoid cream, condoms, vibrators, sex lubricant, bras, ect..........but then, shhhhhhhhh....don't say sex, it's naughty.


And you are obviously not who I was referring to. You have a great attitude. But then, the more I read on the forum the more I find that...well hon, you're just not normal. And I mean that in the best possible way. 

I just really don't get all this uptightlyness about sex. Why is it bad to talk about it. Why is it bragging if I tell people my wife rocks my world. You know what, she did again just about 35 minutes ago this morning. I didn't even have to hold her down... um... much. I'm beginning to see why other countries accuse us of being so puritanical about sex. 

I'm a Christian, I love God, I love my wife, and I LOVE SEX! 

There. I said it.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I mean how am I supposed to NOT be obsessed with sex with this at the top of every TAM page I visit???










She seems like a wonderful girl though.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> That has always cracked me up too. Here are all these people having problems in their sexual relationships, and that's the ad at the top of the forum.
> 
> Beat a starving monkey with a banana.


Beat a starving monkey with a ribbed vibrator and a feather!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> *In all seriousness, society needs to stop portraying fidelity and marriage as boring.* I remember when Melrose Place first aired. Jane and Michael were a faithful, happily married couple. Ratings were low. Then they turned Michael into a cheating sleaze, brought in Jane's sister Sidney for him to cheat with, and ratings skyrocked.
> 
> Infidelity is glamourized, in soap operas, movies, prime time, ect. And marriage is vanilla.
> 
> Another thing that makes me crazy is the notion that if you are a Christian, sex has to be boring. :bsflag: Why did God make my husband so hot if he wanted me to be bored in the sack? :rofl: I hope He's looking down saying, "You go, guys!!" And if He's not, well I guess I'll be shoving a pineapple up Satan's rump for eternity.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Bridges Of [email protected] County .... The Other Man ... Internal Affairs ... Body Heat

I actually like Body Heat. But you are correct. These things help the ratings.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

nvm


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Another thing that makes me crazy is the notion that if you are a Christian, sex has to be boring. :bsflag: Why did God make my husband so hot if he wanted me to be bored in the sack? :rofl: I hope He's looking down saying, "You go, guys!!" And if He's not, well I guess I'll be shoving a pineapple up Satan's rump for eternity.


Exactly. My wife and I are devout Christians and sex is NOT boring. God made everything including a naked man and a naked woman and he put them in a beautiful garden. He called everything He made good. You don't put a naked man and woman in a garden unless you're expecting something to happen. When it's between the two of you, whatever it is, there's nothing wrong with it. Do it and ENJOY!


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah I wonder what Christians like that think. Do they think that God's up in heaven and thinking: "What in the world is that married couple doing?!?!? What wait, I never intended for that to happen!"

Seriously... if you believe that God created everything, he created sex too. It being pleasurable isn't a mistake either.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It makes me crazy when I hear some evangelicals say that sex is for procreation only and not to be enjoyed. :wtf:
> 
> Do these people have any idea how much fun you can have with an erect p*nis? It's more fun than a Slinky and a staircase on Christmas morning!


also, if its not for enjoyment, why do they keep getting caught messing around on their wives? :scratchhead:


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> It makes me crazy when I hear some evangelicals say that sex is for procreation only and not to be enjoyed.


The Shakers believed that. Last time I checked there were only three left. Guess that didn't work out too well for them huh?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> The Shakers believed that. Last time I checked there were only three left. Guess that didn't work out too well for them huh?


Not a whole lot of shakin' goin' on then?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

sandc said:


> Not a whole lot of shakin' goin' on then?


Oh that's bad. :rofl:


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> So here I am.... I speak about it. What we have learned through our experience.... HIS PAIN.... my ignorance ..... *where WE missed it communicatively*... It seems most men on here are not like MY husband... so maybe not. He never pushed himself on me, nor did he ever, even for a day....deprive me of emotional fullfillment ...like many women on here complain in their marraiges..I can not relate to that.... so all that leaves me is... I was the bad one, I was the neglectful one !!


That pretty much summarizes how Carol and I view ALL disconnects in our marriage.. not simply the sex one. The bottom line is that we both think our partner has delivered... in spades. We have no reason to think that we've been dealt with unfairly. Accordingly, when there's an issue, then both of us reach to what WE can do about it. Rather than getting defensive, we get busy.

From my own side, when Carol wants... well... _anything_ I don't find myself caring whether she _should_ want it or not. I don't really see what that has got to do with anything. The facts remain the same. There is a way that I can make her happier. I get to choose whether I want to get busy or get defensive. The former is the path to wedded bliss (for us). The latter is the path to divorce (for us). 

To quote Santana... "I'll change my life to better suit her mood." And that is a task that is sometimes annoying, yes... but it's a labor of love in the truest sense of that phrase. I have literally devoted my life to her happiness and I'm content with that decision. It would not be enough for me to do "chore sex" or "chore discussions" or "chore anything." If it is what is needful to make Carol happiest then I get behind it... inside and out. Looked at one way, it's hard to see how anyone could get any more "nice guy doormattish" than that.



> Someday all of THIS may come crashing down, my husband worries menapause will do me in..becoming a passion of the past.....so he is going to take what he can get... but somehow I'm banking that won't touch what I have learned and felt so deeply in how it has enhanced ....US. My bet is on ME.


Personally, I think your husband would be wise to take the bet on you. Carol is past menopause and her sex drive is lower than mine. Ultimately, that means nothing because she also is of the "get busy" mindset... and if that requires reworking her inner position on sex and sexuality then so be it. The idea that I might be happier and she could do something about it but just can't be bothered is a non-starter for her -- just as it appears to be for you. Tell your husband that I'd put $100 bucks down "betting on you... you plural". He can get back to me after you hit menopause. I'm looking forward to a nice dinner out on his nickel at some point in the future 

Like you, I vaguely understand the context of this thread and the threads it alludes to. But it just isn't my reality.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> I mean how am I supposed to NOT be obsessed with sex with this at the top of every TAM page I visit???
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"grandma, I'd like you meet my Fiancé, -----."

Grandma: "what a lovely young lady. Where do you work dear? "


Later, as the paramedics are carrying grandma out......


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I'd rather have sex than carve furniture.
> 
> But I'm strange that way.


I have broken a couple of beds in my time ... just sayin.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

my husband and i have been through a lot in our 20 years together. we fvcked up, held grudges, held fast to resentments, lost trust in one another.

we are at a point where a lot of things have been worked out, and we have never been so happy. i will not sugar coat sex talk. if i gave my husband 5/6 bjs last week, than thats what happened.

we always talk about sex...we talk about it at home, on tam, in the car, we text it, we talk about it late nite when we are outside...

i dont care, im not ashamed im to grown, my kids are to old, i have been with this man since i was 12...its about tie we got our sh!t together..we feel like we did when we first moved in together.

i am proud of our sex life, im proud that we talked about our problems, and found a deeper connection. i have no filter, i speak from the heart, and all i can do is be me.

when i was 20-ish, i dont think i talked about sex so much, but now...its all i think about. sex is important part of us. we can always clean up, but sex right here right now...thats going to be at the top of the list.

i have 4 kids, a sick mom, and read books/magizines, watch tv, cook, shop, and basically have a life. sexing my husband is tops in my life...esp, when there isnt a good reason not to.

if you were my friend, or someone listening in on my conversations, than you would always hear sex, positions, deep throat....all kinds of naughty words...and dosent bother me in the least

im grown, have kids, been married for ever...i dosent accur to me, that everyone isnt having the sex i am...i always assumed we were the low curve of the grade, and everyone else has surpassed us light years ago...

like we just got to the party..and every one else has been there for about 2 hours.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Beowulf said:


> The Shakers believed that. Last time I checked there were only three left. Guess that didn't work out too well for them huh?


shakers believed in no sex.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> shakers believed in no sex.


Then where did all those little rocking chairs come from?


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Then where did all those little rocking chairs come from?


... from the time those folks were spending not having or thinking about sex.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Since when is men being perverted a bad thing? :rofl: (Edited to say that I mean the good kind of perverted.  )


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


It's exactly the same problem when the shoe is on the other foot. It's just as cruel to not meet your spouses needs because you don't feel like it. Once ANYONE in the relationship bases what they do for each other based on how they feel, the relationship is going to deteriorate. Marriage is not about giving what your partner needs when you can pry yourself away from what you want to do, its about coming together and being or doing what they need in a symbiotic way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Alive 'N Kickin' - Tighter, Tighter - YouTube


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sandc said:


> Exactly. My wife and I are devout Christians and sex is NOT boring. God made everything including a naked man and a naked woman and he put them in a beautiful garden. He called everything He made good. You don't put a naked man and woman in a garden unless you're expecting something to happen. When it's between the two of you, whatever it is, there's nothing wrong with it. Do it and ENJOY!


The holiness church I went too messed me up, it was pounded into our heads not to lust, the evils of premarital sex , no touching, I don't know, we couldn't live up to their puritan standards....nor did I even want too....we did manage to wait for intercourse, but that touching.... kissing, and getting off .... hell no! 

But still, I felt guilty about everything sexual due to those teachings... the guilt/shame/rependence wheel revolving in my damn head for years... it was a plague over my mind feeling like a bad girl.... followed me right into my marraige, feeling like my flesh was evil , I was embarrassed to even have my husband see me naked for YEARS ... talking about masterbation, Oh my God - that was so taboo- another sin we had to hide. This is what I got .....from church. 


Loosing my religion was the beginning of understanding sex and no longer being ashmamed of it. Sorry -just my personal experience. I don't believe all church's are the same , mine was overbearing & near put everything on a shame trip I guess, even for our thoughts. 

I like PORN.. sorry! I don't feel fantasies are evil and sinful either. Like we are supposed to remain these pure untouched virgins, then as soon as we wed... turn a switch and be a stripper for our husbands, who can pull this off [email protected]#$%^& 

It just doesn't work that way....if it has played out that easily for many devout believers, you sure as hell had one over on me.....Cause I was sexually "caged" ...and I do blame what I was taught in the church....to a decent extent. It kinda sucks when you start believing if you are touching your boyfriend and God Forbid, get into an accident that night, you will go to hell -cause you wasn't married. 

I really don't think I ever believed that - BUT it IS what I was taught.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Sorry that happened to you SA, and no not all churches are like that. Well probably about premarital sex.

I know what you mean about feeling guilt though, I had a GF in college and we had sex for years... always felt guilty about it.

By the time I met my wife we were both practicing religious folks... so we abstained from sex during dating. In many ways it was great, in that we spent nights apart and it really left us a lot of time to really think about the other person before sex driven hormones clouded our vision. By the time we married (outside of sex) we really didn't have any major discoveries... we pretty much knew how life was going to be (which helped as we were trying to settle into being H & W).

I'll be absolutely frank though premarital sex would have completely changed our lives. Given that my wife found sex so painful that it took us months to even get penetration at all w/o it being too painful to continue. That would have likely killed the relationship. That likely would have left my wife (then GF) really feeling like she didn't measure up sexually... possibly for life (some serious scarring imo).

Given that our next sexual issue: LD vs HD which we are still sorting out. That too might have ended our relationship while dating and again left my wife feeling like she didn't measure up sexually.

While sexually our marriage has been a struggle, we do have 4 wonderful children. Those children likely wouldn't have come into the picture had we had premarital sex... nor would our marriage.

Not saying premarital sex makes folks bad people or anything... just saying that it can cause problems beyond just pregnancy (which is also a problem for many).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Browncoat said:


> I'll be absolutely frank though premarital sex would have completely changed our lives. Given that my wife found sex so painful that it took us months to even get penetration at all w/o it being too painful to continue. That would have likely killed the relationship.


OH MY --- YOU TOO ! This is the 1st I have come across another couple where it took MONTHS .... Listen to my rediculous story...

We waited for intercourse .... after 3 months of trying (my husband is a very gentle man)... still couldn't get it in - at this point , I am thinking "what the hell -this is rediculous" -so I go to the OBGYN (how embarrassing!) ...and he says to me "Yep... you have a ridgid one alright"... and scheduled me for a "Hymenectomy"......but I have to get blood drawn for a pregnancy test -just in case.... well shock of all shocks, getting that phone call ... I was expecting! No surgery.

So now my husband was afraid of hurting me and the baby growing inside of me.... so it literally took another 5 months, at this point married 8 months for him to fully penetrate me!! Boy were we excited - at this point, we didn't know if he would ever break through....time to CELEBRATE.... I think we went out to eat! 

We even joked our son was the "immaculate conception".. funny , he is our Worship Leader, wanna Be "Youth Pastor". 

I do not regret waiting for intercourse, but I very very much regret the mindset that stole my enjoyment of expressing my sexuality -Yes, even in my teens -with my husband. I did a thread on this  HERE 

I was never LD, I believe I have always been HD ....I was just freaking "repressed". My sex drive right now is exactly the same as it was my entire marraige. But how I look upon sex, spicing it up, bjs, all of it... forever totally changed. 

I do not agree with the church, I see it as TOO strict... but yet the world is TOO loose. The church seems to set you up to be repressed.... the world takes the sacredness away. I am somewhere in the middle.

As a Christian man, I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this thread I did...not sure if you have daughters, with 4 , I am guessing so... I want my daughter to have a healthy respect for sex... but with zero repression, if that is even possible..and what you are experienceing in your marriage... I feel men need a CLUE to what is to come - my last point in that thread. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html

Browncoat : Sounds you really love your wife - and would do it all over again, even knowing she is LD ... I find this a little amazing. I have read many stories here, many men curse the fact they married a virgin -because of how it played out , alot of suffering. 

I have 5 sons, 2 wear those silver rings proudly... my biggest fear for them.... what you are experiencing . I would cry for them.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> Yeah I wonder what Christians like that think. Do they think that God's up in heaven and thinking: "What in the world is that married couple doing?!?!? What wait, I never intended for that to happen!"


You want to understand the power of religion over sex? Just look at the laws that many states had against heterosexual sodomy until the supreme court struck them down.

Back when these laws were created, the legislatures were entirely made up of men. Some guy was sitting around, and come up with the idea:

"You now what we need fellas? We need a law that it should be illegal for women to suck on my member. Yeah, that's a good idea for a law."

I'm telling you that you really have to hold a strong power over a guy to make him think that way!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

With two daughters of my own, I'm on the same page as you SimplyAmorous. 

Girls feel far better about themselves if they give it away without a long term, loving relationship. I think much of society devalues sex to the point it isn't healthy.

The flip side is that I want them to truly enjoy sex. Between wifey and I, they've got the genetics to really have a good time (and often!). The key is figuring out how to have the balance.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah I would do it all over again, but I have a funny feeling knowing what I know now we could have saved ourselves a lot of fuss.  We've still got our issues to work through, but ours is a very happy marriage and we have kids we're really proud of (proverbial warts and all). Our kids are a real joy to us both. 

The best part is that we both have a heart that wants to make the other happy, which is what makes compromise something that comes easily for us.

I'm happy my wife was a virgin when we married, and frankly I wish I was one as well for her... but you can't change the past.

We have two lovely red headed daughters (ages 13 and 6.5). We are already teaching the eldest one many of the things on the list just here and there (for example we have always openly kissed and hugged each other in front of the kids). I think your list is spot on!

The only thing I'd add for my daughters is that I'd encourage them to wait until marriage for sex. We plan to tell them our story (in greater detail when they start to show interest in boys more). We plan to let them know, that issues like their mother and I had could very well happen to them. Without a loving husband around who feels committed to making the sex life work, it would in all likelihood leave them emotionally hurt or devastated.

The only thing I'd modify personally, is that I'd make sure that when a young man wants to marry my daughter that talk about sex happens with a counselor (we'd pay for it). Not crazy about a testosterone driven young man talking orgasms with my daughter alone...


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> You want to understand the power of religion over sex? Just look at the laws that many states had against heterosexual sodomy until the supreme court struck them down.
> 
> Back when these laws were created, the legislatures were entirely made up of men. Some guy was sitting around, and come up with the idea:
> 
> ...


No doubt. I'm what many would call a devout Christian, but at the same rate I want a government that is secular and fair. The bible is for Christians, the government is those who live in that country... two different things. I know my views aren't exactly popular in the church, but frankly I don't really care. We don't live in a theocracy, nor would I want to.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

> Why would a person with a normal sexuality even bother to show up here?


define normal. what's normal to you may not be for others, and vice versa.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> 
> ...


I will admit that I read the thread you're referring to and found it really insane and ironic that a woman who openly admits her desire is for sex once a month was lambasted because she spoke about how it wasn't enjoyable or a pleasant feeling to give her body up to suit her husband's sex drive. 

I think her feelings are more often true for women than not but they are taboo and regarded as wrong because they go so strongly against what a man's needs are.

I am a LD woman. If my relationship with my husband is not continually nurtured and fulfilled you can bet that it's a chore to be a sexy minx in bed.

So, again, you have all these men complaining they don't get enough and wondering how to do it. You have advice that works to make them more selfish and then we're curious why so many men in sexless relationships cannot reclaim the love and sex life they once had. Yet, never are we to look at whether or not the wife's needs are being met and how the husband is responsible for it. If a woman is emotionally withdrawn and sexually deemed dysfunctional by her husband, she must have BPD, have childhood issues, be having an EA or PA or the man isn't enforcing his boundaries. 

Advice crafted by men for men with women speaking up against the advice being deemed feminists and women speaking for the advice being great examples of how women _should _be.

Perhaps this is because meeting sexual needs seems so simple and meeting emotional needs seems more complex. It could also be that men lack the ability to empathize with women and many women lack the ability to speak up for themselves. It's easier to try to find a simple solution rather than really look at the dichotomy and various possibilities.

Hence I think so much of the advice offered is way off mark here...time and time again...in regards to sexuality between men and women and how to find a perfect medium.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I will admit that I read the thread you're referring to and found it really insane and ironic that a woman who openly admits her desire is for sex once a month was lambasted because she spoke about how it wasn't enjoyable or a pleasant feeling to give her body up to suit her husband's sex drive.
> 
> I think her feelings are more often true for women than not but they are taboo and regarded as wrong because they go so strongly against what a man's needs are.
> 
> ...


Trenton,

I'm curious as to what your advice to the young lady would be. I did refer to her attitude as somewhat selfish but only in regards to her utter refusal to entertain the idea that sex was as important for most men as we all know it is (and yes I realize there are LD men and HD women). I tried to explain that sex was not always going to be fireworks and nuclear explosions. Sometimes it will be a bottle rocket or just a pretty sparkler. But that's okay too. My main concern was that she found arousal annoying and wished her husband wanted her less. That troubled me as it seemed to indicate that she had ideas about sex that might be incongruous to her and her husband's long term happiness. That is why I told her to seek out a sex therapist for both of them. Again, I respect your opinions and the advice you have provided and wonder how you would have responded to Marie.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> I read somewhere once that "sex experts" consider married couples who have sex 11 times or less per year to be in a sexless marriage.
> 
> As a LD person I can understand only wanting sex 11 or less times per year, but I also understand that it is abnormal and that the spouse with the normal drive shouldn't have to be the one to compromise.


I actually don't think it's beneficial to say that someone who doesn't have spontaneous desire for sex, or what some refer to as LD, is abnormal. That immediately puts people in boxes of "you are right/good" and "you are wrong/bad".

It simply is what it is. Not everyone, men and women both, necessarily have loads of spontaneous physical desire, and that doesn't mean it's all bad. Women, especially, start out in a deficit position in the physical arena anyway because of the lovely mix of hormones that make us women and not
men. 

The key instead, is to not look at it like LD/HD, abnormal/normal, bad/good ... but simply accept that it is what it is. And that if you find yourself on opposite ends of the spectrum with your partner, which is likely to happen as some point(s) in almost any long-term relationship, it's actually the willingness to work together and be committed to each other that is most important.

So, if you want to label people, then they should be labelled as to whether they are committed or not ... maybe LC (low commitment) or HC (commitment) because that will make more of a difference than anything else.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Trenton,
> 
> I'm curious as to what your advice to the young lady would be. I did refer to her attitude as somewhat selfish but only in regards to her utter refusal to entertain the idea that sex was as important for most men as we all know it is (and yes I realize there are LD men and HD women). I tried to explain that sex was not always going to be fireworks and nuclear explosions. Sometimes it will be a bottle rocket or just a pretty sparkler. But that's okay too. My main concern was that she found arousal annoying and wished her husband wanted her less. That troubled me as it seemed to indicate that she had ideas about sex that might be incongruous to her and her husband's long term happiness. That is why I told her to seek out a sex therapist for both of them. Again, I respect your opinions and the advice you have provided and wonder how you would have responded to Marie.


How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump? With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise. I don't think going from 20 to 1X/mth is fair. But frankly going to 10X/mth also to me is not fair as she/he is doing it much more then they are comfortable or want it.

I don't get the idea that if a woman does not want sex that she should "always" then give him a BJ or keep doing it.

Maybe I am too beta, but to me compromise for 1X/mth, would be 1X/wk + extras (i.e. vacations, special dates, evenings out and some spontaneous......). I think if I was in her shoes and doing it 3-5X's/wk, I'd feel violated.

However as said I'd also talk to a professional to see why this is such an issue.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
You are chronically resentful about the solution you just prescribed. And the guy on the other thread is 25.

They don't have kids. As for the bj solution, some women really dislike them, others seem to like them. She stated her preference to give him bjs as opposed to jumpsuit his obsessive need to get her off...




Havesomethingtosay said:


> How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump. With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise. I don't think going from 20 to 1X/mth is fair. But frankly going to 10X/mth also to me is not fair as she/he is doing it much more then they are comfortable or want it.
> 
> I don't get the idea that if a woman does not want sex that she should "always" then give him a BJ or keep doing it.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Trenton said:


> So, again, you have all these men complaining they don't get enough and wondering how to do it. You have advice that works to make them more selfish and then we're curious why so many men in sexless relationships cannot reclaim the love and sex life they once had. Yet, never are we to look at whether or not the wife's needs are being met and how the husband is responsible for it. If a woman is emotionally withdrawn and sexually deemed dysfunctional by her husband, she must have BPD, have childhood issues, be having an EA or PA or the man isn't enforcing his boundaries.


Trenton,

Where do you get this? Virtually every "my wife doesn't want to have sex with me" thread that I have seen, almost the first response is always "What need of hers aren't you meeting?" that I have seen. Quickly followed by "man up" of course...


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> You are chronically resentful about the solution you just prescribed. And the guy on the other thread is 25.
> 
> They don't have kids. As for the bj solution, some women really dislike them, others seem to like them. She stated her preference to give him bjs as opposed to jumpsuit his obsessive need to get her off...
> ...


No mem11363..... What is your problem? The other thread is just one in a long example of HD/LD relationships where usually the woman is told to suck it up. I was using it as just one example of issues that prompted the thread.

You have honestly said you have a HD/LD relationship, but you don't say what that gap is? Is it that you want it everyday and she wants it only once every 2 weeks (yes there is pain and I am sorry about that), yet in your words you have "relations" every 2-3 days. You may think that is a fair compromise. Well as a "beta" male (as you have coined me, though my spouse would disagree) I say you are unfair and deep down I think your wife thinks the same.

Grab your hand, fire up your computer and take care of yourself if you need it so bad........


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> No mem11363..... What is your problem? The other thread is just one in a long example of HD/LD relationships where usually the woman is told to suck it up.
> 
> You have honestly said you have a HD/LD relationship, but you don't say what that gap is? Is it that you want it everyday and she wants it only once every 2 weeks (yes there is pain and I am sorry about that), yet in your words you have "relations" every 2-3 days. You may think that is a fair compromise. Well as a "beta" male (as you have coined me, though my spouse would disagree) I say you are unfair and deep down I think your wife thinks the same.
> 
> Grab your hand, fire up your computer and take care of yourself if you need it so bad........


I think you are correct to a point. If the couple cannot work this out and emotional needs are not going to be met then I think rather than firing up the computer and jerking off, the couple should evaluate whether this is a deal breaker. If it is then so be it. Otherwise it is just a relationship of power struggles, disrespect, humiliation, resentment and pain. This will permeate the entire relationship. It becomes toxic. So the relationship becomes one of cruelty to each other. Sweet.

Obviously you feel the need can be met by jerking off to porn which exhibits zero understanding that this is an emotional need. There really is no basis then for discussion s long as there is a disconnect with this.

Anyway, such a situation would be a dealbreaker for me.


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

Trenton said:


> I will admit that I read the thread you're referring to and found it really insane and ironic that a woman who openly admits her desire is for sex once a month was lambasted because she spoke about how it wasn't enjoyable or a pleasant feeling to give her body up to suit her husband's sex drive.
> 
> I think her feelings are more often true for women than not but they are taboo and regarded as wrong because they go so strongly against what a man's needs are.
> 
> ...


Can you please link a couple of threads that are about a man not getting sex that don't have atleast half the responces on the first page figuring out what HE is doing wrong?

Really funny thing here and the reason I am editing is I just looked at a thread started by a woman about her LD hubby and 1 reply had something that she may be doing wrong. The rest was about what HE was doing wrong. I find that pretty intresting.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I think you are correct to a point. If the couple cannot work this out and emotional needs are not going to be met then I think rather than firing up the computer and jerking off, the couple should evaluate whether this is a deal breaker. If it is then so be it. Otherwise it is just a relationship of power struggles, disrespect, humiliation, resentment and pain. This will permeate the entire relationship. It becomes toxic. So the relationship becomes one of cruelty to each other. Sweet.
> 
> Obviously you feel the need can be met by jerking off to porn which exhibits zero understanding that this is an emotional need. There really is no basis then for discussion s long as there is a disconnect with this.
> 
> Anyway, such a situation would be a dealbreaker for me.


No I do not think the computer is a perfect substitute, but it offer`s the physical release a man may need. A woman can use a dildo or buy a toy (and of course use the computer too). If you still have physical closeness and intimacy, (massages, kisses, hugs, sleeping together and all over each other.......) with out the actual act or release that can make up for the gaps.

If that is not enough, then leave.....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Enchantment,
If commitment is about trying to put your partner first, making the effort to support and please them, and to avoid causing them distress, than yes a good marriage is more about LC, HC than drive.




OTE=Enchantment;684900]I actually don't think it's beneficial to say that someone who doesn't have spontaneous desire for sex, or what some refer to as LD, is abnormal. That immediately puts people in boxes of "you are right/good" and "you are wrong/bad".

It simply is what it is. Not everyone, men and women both, necessarily have loads of spontaneous physical desire, and that doesn't mean it's all bad. Women, especially, start out in a deficit position in the physical arena anyway because of the lovely mix of hormones that make us women and not
men. 

The key instead, is to not look at it like LD/HD, abnormal/normal, bad/good ... but simply accept that it is what it is. And that if you find yourself on opposite ends of the spectrum with your partner, which is likely to happen as some point(s) in almost any long-term relationship, it's actually the willingness to work together and be committed to each other that is most important.

So, if you want to label people, then they should be labelled as to whether they are committed or not ... maybe LC (low commitment) or HC (commitment) because that will make more of a difference than anything else. [/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> No I do not think the computer is a perfect substitute, but it offer`s the physical release a man may need. A woman can use a dildo or buy a toy (and of course use the computer too). If you still have physical closeness and intimacy, (massages, kisses, hugs, sleeping together and all over each other.......) with out the actual act or release that can make up for the gaps.
> 
> *If that is not enough, then leave....*.


That is what I am saying. That it is important enough to be a dealbreaker.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So you just like to argue about both sides of this issue or what?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/42188-my-wife-said-im-obsessed-about-sex.html

I feel your obsession over obsession with sex in both directions.

So all of your rant here in this thread is just totally tongue in cheek sarcasm.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump? With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise. I don't think going from 20 to 1X/mth is fair. But frankly going to 10X/mth also to me is not fair as she/he is doing it much more then they are comfortable or want it.
> 
> I don't get the idea that if a woman does not want sex that she should "always" then give him a BJ or keep doing it.
> 
> ...


Violated? Words don't begin to describe how wrong that word is. A marriage is supposed to be two people becoming one in every way which includes sex. It's the entire point to being married (becoming one). To have the opinion that a spouse wanting to be with the other is in any way a violation means you shouldn't be married to them. Sex between married couples is a gift that you give to each other, its not rape. What's next, I was violated because my wife wanted to use my body to mow the lawn and I didn't, therefore I feel violated? :scratchhead:


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

If you don't want to have sex, don't get married. It is that simple. 

Frequent sex should never be viewed as a violation in a marriage. A couple who is very sexually active is simply forming a healthy bond. Lovemaking in a marriage ideally brings the pair closer together.

Constantly withholding sex is a violation of marriage vows. That is why an unconsummated marriage can be annulled. Sex is a natural part of adult relationships and those who see view it as dirty and wrong need more help than TAM can give. If a LD partner only wants sex once a month and the HD partner wants twenty encounters, there is nothing wrong with meeting in the middle and compromising with ten times a month. Of course, if the lack of sex stems from emotional needs the HD partner should also work harder to fix those problems as well. 

Sometimes I think that LD people should just marry each other, so that there are less sexual challenges with frequency. We are living the rare miracle of a well matched HD couple. I can't wait to see my husband after class tonight-hope he took his vitamins today because I am going to throw that man's back out!


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> So you just like to argue about both sides of this issue or what?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/42188-my-wife-said-im-obsessed-about-sex.html
> 
> ...


To some extent it is.......... But it is also serious based on what I wrote. I never said sex is not *very* important in a marriage/partnership/relationship, but the extent to which it is discussed, dissected, the titles of some threads and how some threads proceed leaves me aghast. 

Just a post above takes issue that I would say I'd feel violated if I was asked to do something that I couldn't stand and way turned off 9 out of 10 X's (I want to do it only that 1 times) and people missed my point precisely because it had to do with sex.

I forgot the other thread and frankly that was posted tongue in cheek based on what I thought was a clever turn of a phrase.

*I'm not obsessed about sex, I'm obsessed about the lack of sex*

I stand by that, but also promise I talk a lot less about it or am pre-occupied or bothered by it like some on here.

So yes I stand by what I have posted and said....


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> If you don't want to have sex, don't get married. It is that simple.
> 
> Frequent sex should never be viewed as a violation in a marriage. A couple who is very sexually active is simply forming a healthy bond. Lovemaking in a marriage ideally brings the pair closer together.
> 
> ...


Totally jealous of him, your hubby is a lucky man. :smthumbup:

For all of the LD people on here, you have no idea how much good that kind of enthusiasm about your partner does for your "HD" spouse. I wish someone sold FYD's attitude by the bottle. I'd go broke buying it.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

phantomfan said:


> Violated? Words don't begin to describe how wrong that word is. A marriage is supposed to be two people becoming one in every way which includes sex. It's the entire point to being married (becoming one). To have the opinion that a spouse wanting to be with the other is in any way a violation means you shouldn't be married to them. Sex between married couples is a gift that you give to each other, its not rape. What's next, I was violated because my wife wanted to use my body to mow the lawn and I didn't, therefore I feel violated? :scratchhead:


If she was getting you out every single day to mow the lawn with a hand mower, come rain or shine when the grass hasn't grown....... Then yes I stand by the word violated. (no you do not run a farm or a golf course)

You miss the point. If my wife made me feel sick about it and demanded sex 3-5X/wk, however wanted it everyday and I only enjoyed it 1X/mth, damn right I'd feel used. 

But you guys see red when someone denies you the sex you think you have earned since you are married.

Heck I want sex 2-3X/wk too (maybe ore)...... The point is I understand increasing her desire to a reasonable level where we both can live with and enjoy.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> So you just like to argue about both sides of this issue or what?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/42188-my-wife-said-im-obsessed-about-sex.html
> 
> ...


Like I said. TAM's resident contrarian. Which ever way the wind blows he blows the other way.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> To some extent it is.......... But it is also serious based on what I wrote. I never said sex is not *very* important in a marriage/partnership/relationship, but the extent to which it is discussed, dissected and some of the threads leaves me aghast.
> 
> Just a post above takes issue that I would say I'd feel violated if I was asked to do something that I couldn't stand and way turned off 9 out of 10 X's (I want to do it only that 1 times) and people missed my point precisely because it had to do with sex.
> 
> ...


Stand by being disgusted by sex. I stand by suggesting a spouse who feels that way is wrong and shouldn't be married. You (in a general sense not you personally) are being a neglectful partner to put your heels in the dirt and refuse to have sex because you don't "feel" like it. The only digging that should be done IMHO is to dig until "you" find out WHY and solve it, or divorce. That's the right thing to do. If you can't live up to your responsibilities to pay your mortgage, you don't get to live in the house. If you won't take care of your partner or find a way to take care your responsibilities then you don't deserve to have a partner who completes you but you don't complete them. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. I stand by that premise for sex and for any other aspect of a relationship. It aghasts me to see sex put on a pedestal where it's ok to rationalize cheating your partner out of their needs because its sex and you don't want to, but don't you dare not do what I need you to do.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump? With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise. I don't think going from 20 to 1X/mth is fair. But frankly going to 10X/mth also to me is not fair as she/he is doing it much more then they are comfortable or want it.
> 
> I don't get the idea that if a woman does not want sex that she should "always" then give him a BJ or keep doing it.
> 
> ...


Have you no concept of togetherness? Do you not understand having a connection? What the hell kind of marriage are you describing? If I wanted to look at magazines, porn, etc and masturbate why did I get married? I could do that and be single? My wife and I promised each other fidelity and in turn we each promised the other a sex life. So in your scenario I take care of my need for sex without involving my wife and she in turn takes care of her own need for attention without involving me right? What kind of lunacy is that?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> No I do not think the computer is a perfect substitute, but it offer`s the physical release a man may need. A woman can use a dildo or buy a toy (and of course use the computer too). If you still have physical closeness and intimacy, (massages, kisses, hugs, sleeping together and all over each other.......) with out the actual act or release that can make up for the gaps.
> 
> If that is not enough, then leave.....


All those things are what many women desire and most men (hopefully) provide already. But men (at least most men apparently) require physical sex to connect with their wives. Read a damned book chuckles. Here is one:

Amazon.com: Anatomy of Love: A Natural History of Mating, Marriage, and Why We Stray (9780449908976): Helen Fisher: Books


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> If she was getting you out every single day to mow the lawn with a hand mower, come rain or shine when the grass hasn't grown....... Then yes I stand by the word violated. (no you do not run a farm or a golf course)
> 
> You miss the point. If my wife made me feel sick about it and demanded sex 3-5X/wk, however wanted it everyday and I only enjoyed it 1X/mth, damn right I'd feel used.
> 
> ...


Used = wrong perspective. If a spouse refuses to do their part and expects you to have sex with them, that's one thing. I assume that a spouse is naturally going to do what they have to/need to if their partner has communicated their needs and vice versa. If you are doing yours, then they need to do theirs up to and including meeting their marital obligations in the bedroom. If you can't, wont, don't, et.al then don't be married. It's the height of selfishness to keep your spouse starving in captivity while you are fat, dumb and happy from them meeting your obligations to you.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't understand why if you know you only want it once a month and he wants it everyday would you get married? I can see if you waited for your honeymoon or if you changed over time. Why do men want to marry someone who has a drastically different sex drive and then complain about it? 
I'm so confused by that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Havesomethingtosay said *: You miss the point. If my wife made me feel sick about it and demanded sex 3-5X/wk, however wanted it everyday and I only enjoyed it 1X/mth, damn right I'd feel used.


 I want to respond to this comment. If I was marreid to you ...I'd leave you. Of course you'd want rid of me too!! I'd be a pain up your ass. 

My husband is MY HERO... I so wish he was High drive, but he is not -getting close to 50 soon. Even when I wanted it so much he couldn't keep up with me, even causing him some Performance Pressure (that we overcame together).. he loved me so much... he still wanted me to come to him... never turned me away .... even telling me he didn't want me to use toys, he wanted me to use HIM. He meant every word, I can't express how much that meant to me. 

It is the attitude of our spouses that cause happiness & joy to rise within us, how can I not want to shower that man with my everything. What an example to behold if you love and care for your spouse. 

As I see it, if sex is not medically hurting the woman, I think she has it pretty easy, just get the lube out, enjoy the emotional connection, arouse your senses. Men do not have it this easy..... I have yet to read one story where a Lower Drive man had the attitude of my husbands. 

Yes, my bar is pretty high in pleasing your mate... you do whatever it takes.....if you love them. I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of that. It is the most amazing thing... don't think I could handle the other.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

This is not me, nor is it my marriage. Look at what I am writing and am using extreme examples. 

I don't think sexless is normal (i.e. defined as for ease 1X/mth). I think that those LD who want it 1X/mth and have no physical issues and do have orgasms (which I also equate as pleasurable) should see a therapist/counselor (sex) and work through what issues there may be. If they don't be upfront and find a similar LD partner.

Go find posts by Posse whose wife denies him any sex, has laughed and told him to divorce her if he doesn't like it and he is waiting 4 years 'til his youngest is out of the house. Or Jeff who has been convinced by his wife that he doesn't need sex with her, and has bragged on TAM that that is the right decision. I don't get it, but some stand by their marriage.

Ughhh!!!!!!!


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It is the attitude of our spouses that cause happiness & joy to rise within us, how can I not want to shower that man with my everything. What an example to behold if you love and care for your spouse.
> 
> As I see it, if sex is not medically hurting the woman, I think she has it pretty easy, just get the lube out, enjoy the emotional connection, arouse your senses. Men do not have it this easy..... I have yet to read one story where a Lower Drive man had the attitude of my husbands.
> 
> Yes, my bar is pretty high in pleasing your mate... you do whatever it takes.....if you love them. I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of that. It is the most amazing thing... don't think I could handle the other.



i agree with this...i just wish, i had done this early in our marriage, and not waited years later to have the light bulb go off.

and yes i am obsessed with sex, and my husband is obsessed with me...so its working out well.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It just doesn't work that way....if it has played out that easily for many devout believers, you sure as hell had one over on me.....Cause I was sexually "caged" ...and I do blame what I was taught in the church....to a decent extent. It kinda sucks when you start believing if you are touching your boyfriend and God Forbid, get into an accident that night, you will go to hell -cause you wasn't married.
> 
> I really don't think I ever believed that - BUT it IS what I was taught.


Then frankly, you were taught wrong. I still do believe that sex should only be within the bonds of marriage. And that is what we teach in my church. But to say you are going to hell because you did have sex outside of marriage, no. No one on earth has the right to sentence you to hell. We are all sinners but for some reason, lying or stealing is a "little" sin and sex is somehow a bigger sin. It isn't.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> This is one thing I always have a problem with...the notion that a spouse has to "earn" sex.
> 
> *Marriage is about two people who supposedly want and have agreed to give themselves to each other 100%. In my pathetically and unreasonably idealistic mind, there is no better way to do that than to completely surrender yourself body, mind and soul to your partner during sex.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

OMG. This is fabulous. You tied it all together. 

The Yin and the Yang. The synergy of the importance of the connection. This is truly a wonderfully insightful post.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> As a Christian man, I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this thread I did...not sure if you have daughters, with 4 , I am guessing so... I want my daughter to have a healthy respect for sex... but with zero repression, if that is even possible..and what you are experienceing in your marriage... I feel men need a CLUE to what is to come - my last point in that thread


Sorry, I'm late to the party on the Christian stuff. Here is my tke on what a married couple can do with each other with regard to sex. ANYTHING THEY WANT. Yes the levitical laws to say to avoid sex during a womans period but they were wandering around in the desert at that time. There were cleanliness reasons for it. Any christian who is not wandering in the desert for 40 years can do anything freaky thing he wants with his wife as long as both are willing and comfortable with it.

As to what am I going to teach my daughter about sex? That it's great! Enjoy your husband honey and for heavens sake let him enjoy you! Hold NOTHING back.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sandc said:


> Sorry, I'm late to the party on the Christian stuff. Here is my tke on what a married couple can do with each other with regard to sex. ANYTHING THEY WANT. Yes the levitical laws to say to avoid sex during a womans period but they were wandering around in the desert at that time. There were cleanliness reasons for it. Any christian who is not wandering in the desert for 40 years can do anything freaky thing he wants with his wife as long as both are willing and comfortable with it.
> 
> As to what am I going to teach my daughter about sex? That it's great! Enjoy your husband honey and for heavens sake let him enjoy you! Hold NOTHING back.


You don't seem to understand my point.... I get the fact ANYTHING FREAKING goes once you walk down the aisle, but when one is pounded relentlessly in the head with it being evil before that time...it tends to play on the psyche....has lasting effects that need shed, ya know...the whole putting down the flesh, Lust is deserving to pluck your eyes out ... It is MY personal experience. I happens to more than you would think. 

If you escaped it's effects, you are blessed. Some of us don't. Take a moment & read this poster's ordeal (1st post)...I used to pm her -trying to help her...she cried when she found MY story.. her's was so much worse... because her sex drive completely SHUT DOWN ..... just take a moment -read >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/24911-porn-christianity-6.html

I dated my bf for 8 long years before we married, that is a long time to keep it in the pants, but he did it! Does Christians really expect a couple to not even touch each other ?? See I feel that is permissable but christians are divided. I do wonder where you stand??

I guess different camps believe different things. According to the Test of virginity in the Old Testament , I passed, but most would say I was a tainted Virgin. Oh well..let them judge. 

Ya know it kinda sucks to equate some healthy physical pleasure when dating . I just don't see the big deal. I will never agree with chrstians stance on purity before the wedding, it is too strict in my opinon...impossible to live up too, most especially if you are a physical touching HD person...geeze got to have a little fun !


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Pandakiss said:


> i agree with this...i just wish, i had done this early in our marriage, and not waited years later to have the light bulb go off.
> 
> and yes i am obsessed with sex, and my husband is obsessed with me...so its working out well.


Me & you are of the same cloth here. Yep, them light bulbs are heavenly , aren't they!


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Go find posts by Posse whose wife denies him any sex, has laughed and told him to divorce her if he doesn't like it and he is waiting 4 years 'til his youngest is out of the house. Or Jeff who has been convinced by his wife that he doesn't need sex with her, and has bragged on TAM that that is the right decision. I don't get it, but some stand by their marriage.
> 
> Ughhh!!!!!!!


To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.

Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.

The rest of the pie, which I have not shared here, has led me, through great deliberation with extensive personal, legal, and financial consulting, to pick the path I have chosen.

If the only decision-making matrix involved were sex or no sex, I would be so gone. I can understand if you do not understand my decision based on the limited information I have presented, but believe me when I say that there are other factors involved which strongly indicate towards the decision I have made.

I am the Pilot-in-Command of my personal aircraft, and make the decisions related to it. I have chosen a forced landing 4 years away that is more easily survivable for the many multiple occupants of my aircraft rather than a immediate nosedive right now.

I'm not standing by this relationship as it stands any longer than I need to.

I am standing by my marriage vows during that time, but my eyes are wide open. 

*CROSSTHREAD POINTS: The fact that my eyes are wide open are probably why I am noticing all the opportunities I would have to capitalize on if I were so inclined. 

I used to be oblivious to them. Heck, I wasn't exposed to many of them. I was the guy who did the drop kids off at school-work-pick the kids up-stay at home in the evening shuffle. I was in the dumps emotionally, was letting myself go because there was outright hostility in my relationship and I was depressed about it because it had to be all my fault. My wife engaged in some over the top but not deal-breaker behaviors that got me on all the various marriage sites, got me into Stop walking on Eggshells, and Married Man Sex Life. Athol Kay is a very smart man who has connected a lot of dots in my opinion, as are a lot of other authors. After taking natural aggressive behavior to the threats I saw in my marriage, internal and external, and I had fortified the walls somewhat to stabilize things, I started studying up and learned what my various adversaries were and started preparing for them..

After reading a bunch, including MMSL, I realized that I needed to step up my game for me. My wife can come or go with the program as she sees fit, but I have to live with myself, and while I was a good guy overall, I saw areas for improvement when I took a frank look in the mirror. I have thought from the beginning of running the MAP that if my wife came along, that would be a bonus. So far that hasn't happened. 

If she doesn't come on board it will be her loss, and it will be a huge loss, believe me. 

Since I started running the MAP, I have lost 20 lbs of fat, regained 20 lbs of muscle I used to have in my youth, and am brimming over with confidence instead of being a whipped puppy dog. Athol even warns about what happens when you run the MAP in regards to female attention and how you need to be wary.

Kay warns that when you start running the MAP, that it is possible that lots of other women will notice the change in you and start hitting on you, It is so true in my case. I don't want to sound like an infomercial for MMSL, but he does give fair warning about what can happen when you run a MAP. I have so far found it to be eerily accurate. Like I said, it is painful to pass up opportunities when you are starved, but it is the right thing to do. It is nice for the ego and lets me know I am headed in the right direction, however.

In my life I have noticed what I call the "Unhappy Wife Vibe" from women who send signals when they are unhappy in their marriage before. I have always noted it and felt sorry for them and their spouse. If you've felt that vibe from the opposite sex, I don't need to explain it to you. If you haven't, I couldn't explain it to you. It is one of those things that I know when I see. 

It is entirely possible that I am giving off an "Unhappy Husband Vibe." I don't mean to. Nonetheless, I suspect that most women are far more adept at detecting such things than most men. Like a wounded fish, the person giving out the vibe draw other interested fish and a fair number of predators by their unconscious actions.


*

I don't like it my marriage as it stands. My situation sucks. Such is life. I'll suck it up for the people depending on me for a short time, and absent any changes, I'll pop smoke and exfil rapidly when circumstances allow.

My four year plan isn't set in stone either. I have boundaries that are uncrossable without direct aggressive action occurring. Just because I am waiting, don't assume I am overly Beta. I am a meat-eater.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Does Christians really expect a couple to not even touch each other ??


It's funny that you make this point. I recently read an article where the author (apparently a devout Christian) asserts that waiting years and years to have any sex is indeed too much.

The author posits we are intended to settle down much earlier than is now common. Men and women today generally aspire to learn a skill (college or on the job), make some money, have fun, and THEN get married. The conclusion: striving for the "single life" reflects immaturity - people are reluctant to struggle together and sacrifice for the needs of another.

It's an interesting read, although I disagree with the conclusion that we have a generation of Peter Pans and Disney Princesses expecting effortless bliss. What I really like about it is that it openly affirms the goodness of sex and a high sex drive. This is rare, and flies in the face of the majority who beat the "self control" drum, which IMO leads to the major sex hangups you see too often among the Christian community.

I just found the link: The Case for Early Marriage | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Industrialized nations world wide are getting married and having kids much later than ever compared to historical standards. Not trying to make a statement about which is better (that's for another thread), but historically folks got married between ages 13-18... 20. Yes there are cases where men married in their 20's and 30's, but for most folks they married young.

Now folks marry often times in their late 20's to 30's (or later). They start to have kids in their 30's or later, compared to times past when folks started having kids in their teen years or 20's.

All that has a huge affect on all sorts of things, and as for most religions which promote chastity before marriage (Christianity in specific for our discussion) it creates a big problem.

Not saying I have a universal solution, but with my kids I won't discourage them from marrying younger than our generation did (if they want to). I know several people who went through 4 year college while married. Sure it's tough and not common these days... but really I don't have a problem with it.

edit: we are getting pretty far off topic, maybe we should create another thread lol.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Posse said:


> To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.
> 
> Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.
> 
> ...


I was using you as an example of the other end of the spectrum. If you want to start a thread great, but I think you are wrong and Jeff delusional as to solutions to your plight.

I was using the example that not everyone feels cajoled to step it up to 20X's/mth vs. their need of 1X/mth.

You two are close to zero and I feel terribly for you as I do for an LD who has to increase their frequency 2000% (i.e. 20X's/mth vs. 1X/mth), ith people on TAM saying that is reasonable.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Wish I had more time now to get into this as I think it's very interesting. Unfortunately, I'm a wee bit overwhelmed at the moment so I'll spill out my thoughts real quick.

Beo, my advice to her would be to work to come to an understanding with her husband and to be honest. Marriage is about compromise but without honesty both partners will feel jipped.

I'd also let her know that she is not alone and that despite popular opinion and magazine articles, plenty of women struggle with their desire for sex vs. their husband's need for it and many men fall short in understanding women's sexuality. I think many women fall short in understanding their own sexuality. I admire her braveness in expressing an unpopular opinion that is sure to create a barrage of opinions that go against it.

I briefly read through the other threads. Someone asked me where I saw the advice leaning towards it being the man's fault...I'm not a sex in marriage girl on these forums. I rarely read here. I happened upon it in reading "Today's Posts" on my phone during a lunch break. I tend to stick to Ladies & Men's Clubhouse and in the Men's clubhouse, posts are ripe with advice to Man Up...which is essentially promoting selfishness out of desperation. Desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose.

There has always been this idea that women use sex as a privilege earned. Although I do not myself, I understand how it comes into play. A woman with a low drive has no desire for sex, her man has a great desire for sex. Let's say man disconnects because he is not getting sex as much as he'd like and instead of talking about it openly, he retreats and isn't as loving as he could be. Wife loses emotional connection leading to even less sex, cycle repeats leading to resentment. I'm not sure there is always an intent to withhold (although I'm sure in some cases there is).

In the other poster's thread, she says she gives her husband sex willingly to the quantity he desires. We fault her because she doesn't desire more sex and only does it to satisfy her husband. This is very, very flawed. Calling her selfish is even more flawed. It's as if she can't win in her situation and will always be the "problem".

I just find this curious. Why isn't a man's need for sex 3-4 x's a week a problem?...because it is natural? Is it not natural for a woman's sex drive to be less needy in the bedroom? How is one more wrong or right than the other.

So basically, I get this message: Wives must put out or eventually risk being alone or cheated upon or live with a miserable man.

I don't know, I've gotten that message my whole life. It seems deeply wrong and disturbing to me. I'm disappointed to read it here every time I read it. I admire and respect many men but their sexuality seems more like a weakness than anything else. I get that this will be an unpopular statement but I am just being honest.

I'd also really like to know how many divorced men go directly into sex 3-4x's a week. I highly doubt this is the case. Married men act like every woman on the street will be looking to suck his penis upon freedom from the shackles of a wife. I bet many men are lonely, confused, feel defeated and take time to re-establish a sexually satisfying relationship after a divorce.

I just don't buy into it. If a man wants a sexually satisfying relationship with his wife he has another thing coming to him if he thinks demanding it will create the sexy minx he desires. That is only created through deep care and keeping of a relationship by both partners and a willingness to understand his woman's sexuality beyond the word *cumming*


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Posse,
If you are controlling your plane that includes managing your fuel
Supply (money). And that means you sit wife down and explain the new "austerity" plan needed to prepare for 2016. And you make the discretionay spending equivalent. But you enforce cutbacks. If she wants to pull the plug over that, let her. If your depiction of he situation is accurate she won't.




UOTE=Posse;686178]To be fair, she didn't laugh. She was more angry than sardonic.

Realize that I have shared a very thin slice of my relationship and the circumstances enveloping it.

The rest of the pie, which I have not shared here, has led me, through great deliberation with extensive personal, legal, and financial consulting, to pick the path I have chosen.

If the only decision-making matrix involved were sex or no sex, I would be so gone. I can understand if you do not understand my decision based on the limited information I have presented, but believe me when I say that there are other factors involved which strongly indicate towards the decision I have made.

I am the Pilot-in-Command of my personal aircraft, and make the decisions related to it. I have chosen a forced landing 4 years away that is more easily survivable for the many multiple occupants of my aircraft rather than a immediate nosedive right now.

I'm not standing by this relationship as it stands any longer than I need to.

I am standing by my marriage vows during that time, but my eyes are wide open. 

*CROSSTHREAD POINTS: The fact that my eyes are wide open are probably why I am noticing all the opportunities I would have to capitalize on if I were so inclined. 

I used to be oblivious to them. Heck, I wasn't exposed to many of them. I was the guy who did the drop kids off at school-work-pick the kids up-stay at home in the evening shuffle. I was in the dumps emotionally, was letting myself go because there was outright hostility in my relationship and I was depressed about it because it had to be all my fault. My wife engaged in some over the top but not deal-breaker behaviors that got me on all the various marriage sites, got me into Stop walking on Eggshells, and Married Man Sex Life. Athol Kay is a very smart man who has connected a lot of dots in my opinion, as are a lot of other authors. After taking natural aggressive behavior to the threats I saw in my marriage, internal and external, and I had fortified the walls somewhat to stabilize things, I started studying up and learned what my various adversaries were and started preparing for them..

After reading a bunch, including MMSL, I realized that I needed to step up my game for me. My wife can come or go with the program as she sees fit, but I have to live with myself, and while I was a good guy overall, I saw areas for improvement when I took a frank look in the mirror. I have thought from the beginning of running the MAP that if my wife came along, that would be a bonus. So far that hasn't happened. 

If she doesn't come on board it will be her loss, and it will be a huge loss, believe me. 

Since I started running the MAP, I have lost 20 lbs of fat, regained 20 lbs of muscle I used to have in my youth, and am brimming over with confidence instead of being a whipped puppy dog. Athol even warns about what happens when you run the MAP in regards to female attention and how you need to be wary.

Kay warns that when you start running the MAP, that it is possible that lots of other women will notice the change in you and start hitting on you, It is so true in my case. I don't want to sound like an infomercial for MMSL, but he does give fair warning about what can happen when you run a MAP. I have so far found it to be eerily accurate. Like I said, it is painful to pass up opportunities when you are starved, but it is the right thing to do. It is nice for the ego and lets me know I am headed in the right direction, however.

In my life I have noticed what I call the "Unhappy Wife Vibe" from women who send signals when they are unhappy in their marriage before. I have always noted it and felt sorry for them and their spouse. If you've felt that vibe from the opposite sex, I don't need to explain it to you. If you haven't, I couldn't explain it to you. It is one of those things that I know when I see. 

It is entirely possible that I am giving off an "Unhappy Husband Vibe." I don't mean to. Nonetheless, I suspect that most women are far more adept at detecting such things than most men. Like a wounded fish, the person giving out the vibe draw other interested fish and a fair number of predators by their unconscious actions.


*

I don't like it my marriage as it stands. My situation sucks. Such is life. I'll suck it up for the people depending on me for a short time, and absent any changes, I'll pop smoke and exfil rapidly when circumstances allow.

My four year plan isn't set in stone either. I have boundaries that are uncrossable without direct aggressive action occurring. Just because I am waiting, don't assume I am overly Beta. I am a meat-eater.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You don't seem to understand my point.... I get the fact ANYTHING FREAKING goes once you walk down the aisle, but when one is pounded relentlessly in the head with it being evil before that time...it tends to play on the psyche....has lasting effects that need shed, ya know...the whole putting down the flesh, Lust is deserving to pluck your eyes out ... It is MY personal experience. I happens to more than you would think.
> 
> If you escaped it's effects, you are blessed. Some of us don't. Take a moment & read this poster's ordeal (1st post)...I used to pm her -trying to help her...she cried when she found MY story.. her's was so much worse... because her sex drive completely SHUT DOWN ..... just take a moment -read >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/24911-porn-christianity-6.html
> 
> ...


Yes I do get your point. Your church was teaching your wrong and you beat yourself up over it for years. My wife was really repressed too. It took a lot of serious study of the Bible to realize that lust between a husband and wife isn't bad. Lust between any other two people is not good.

Yes I do believe in purity before marriage. Did I stick to that? No, I'm a sinner, so sue me. Will I advise others to try to remain pure before their wedding, yes I will. Do I wish I had? Yes I do.

Eight years is way too long to keep it in your pants. If a guy is unwilling or unable to marry a gal within 2 years, he should move on. Why 8 years?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> I actually don't think it's beneficial to say that someone who doesn't have spontaneous desire for sex, or what some refer to as LD, is abnormal. That immediately puts people in boxes of "you are right/good" and "you are wrong/bad".


Not everything is morally relative. If I post that I would like to drink a bottle of vodka and beat my wife every day, that would be bad. Similarly, if a woman posts that she wants to force her husband into a clinically sexless marriage for no reason other than she doesn't feel like catering to his needs, that's bad.

Good marriages have good spouses who provide for each other's needs. Bad marriages have bad spouses who yearn to lie back while their spouse/servant peels grapes and caters to their every whim.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> How about the HD person just take matters in their own hands and masturbate more to get themselves over the hump? With the internet, magazines, ppv & so on an so forth, take responsibility for your HD and find that compromise.


That would be fine if the need for sex consisted of nothing more than releasing pressure in the testicles. It's more than that. Men need an emotional connection that masturbating can't provide.

Your advice would be like me telling my wife that I know she needs to have conversations in order to connect with me. But, in my opinion, that need could be fulfilled if she stood in the corner, faced the wall, and talked to herself. After all, the words would still come out of her face. Therefore, her needs should be met.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> You two are close to zero and I feel terribly for you as I do for an LD who has to increase their frequency 2000% (i.e. 20X's/mth vs. 1X/mth), ith people on TAM saying that is reasonable.


Your definition of reasonable is unreasonable. Proposing a sexual frequency of once a month is borderline sexless as defined by marriage counselors. We're not talking about horny teenagers saying once a month is unreasonable. We're talking about mental health professionals saying that such a paucity of sex leaves marriages vulnerable.

Also, no one on the other thread used 20x a month as the definition of reasonable. That's just the number the OP said she was using.

So, saying that we expect someone to have sex 2000% more than they desire is just ridiculous.

If I say that I want to kill 100 school children a year, should I balk if someone tells me I shouldn't kill any, because that's such a big drop from my desired frequency? I would say not. Zero murdered school children is the reasonable frequency. It was my desire that was unreasonable.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trenton said:


> In the other poster's thread, she says she gives her husband sex willingly to the quantity he desires. We fault her because she doesn't desire more sex and only does it to satisfy her husband. This is very, very flawed. Calling her selfish is even more flawed. It's as if she can't win in her situation and will always be the "problem".


I think you've misinterpreted the other thread. The poster stated she desires sex only when she is ovulating, once a month. She then stated that she thinks she should be free to decrease the sexual frequency in her marriage down to her optimal level. And that her husband should just get over any disappointment or betrayal he would inevitably feel.

In my opinion, and the opinion of many on this board, that attitude is the perfect example of selfishness in a marriage. She wants what she wants when she wants it. And her husband should just deal with it.

Now, to the poster's credit, she is having sex with her husband enough to keep him happy. And, her later posts in the thread showed a willingness to revise her attitude. I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know how it ends up. But I'm happy that posters such as Havesomethingtosay are outnumbered by more reasonable people who can help her marriage.



Trenton said:


> So basically, I get this message: Wives must put out or eventually risk being alone or cheated upon or live with a miserable man.


Exactly. I agree that that's not a fair message. It's just how the world works. The message for a wildebeest is that he should run fast or he will be eaten by a lion. Is that fair? No. Will Disney make a movie about Princess Wildebeest who doesn't feel like running, so a lion eats her? No. It's just the cold, cruel world. Run or die. In a marriage, it's put out or risk grave consequences.



Trenton said:


> I don't know, I've gotten that message my whole life. It seems deeply wrong and disturbing to me. I'm disappointed to read it here every time I read it. I admire and respect many men but their sexuality seems more like a weakness than anything else. I get that this will be an unpopular statement but I am just being honest.


Let me get this straight. Men say that they have one single, major need in marriage and you see it as a weakness? Do you believe that men should be robots who are calibrated to serve women with no reciprocity expected? Or do you think that men should be calibrated to desire the same things that women desire? Do you see women's desire for emotional connection and romance as weakness?



Trenton said:


> I'd also really like to know how many divorced men go directly into sex 3-4x's a week. I highly doubt this is the case. Married men act like every woman on the street will be looking to suck his penis upon freedom from the shackles of a wife.


If your premise is that men who are getting sex twice a week are divorcing their poor, undeserving wives because they want sex 4x a week, then I think you have a faulty premise. Most of the men on this board, or the divorcing board, who are contemplating divorce over sex have gone months without even sniffing sex. And anybody can go from zero to more than zero without millions of dollars or movie-star looks.



Trenton said:


> I just don't buy into it. If a man wants a sexually satisfying relationship with his wife he has another thing coming to him if he thinks demanding it will create the sexy minx he desires. That is only created through deep care and keeping of a relationship by both partners and a willingness to understand his woman's sexuality beyond the word *cumming*


I don't disagree. But I think both sexes can be at fault. If a woman wants a happy marriage, she's kidding herself if she thinks that a monthly session of, "let's get this over with" is going to be enough to keep her husband worshiping at her feet and handing over his paycheck without risking her discovering the joys of single motherhood.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *sandc* Yes I do get your point. Your church was teaching your wrong and you beat yourself up over it for years. My wife was really repressed too. It took a lot of serious study of the Bible to realize that lust between a husband and wife isn't bad. Lust between any other two people is not good


 You are speaking out of 2 sides of your mouth here... My church was teaching me EXACTLY what you believe... You just said it ...LUST BETWEEN anyone not married is NOT GOOD = sinful. 



sandc said:


> Eight years is way too long to keep it in your pants. If a guy is unwilling or unable to marry a gal within 2 years, he should move on. Why 8 years?


Because I met him when I was 15, he was the only guy I ever dated, after so many years, I wasn't sure, I felt I never had any experiences, gave his ring back (he was devestated), dated another , then realized what I had..... he would have married me right out of high school.... we both had lousy jobs, It was me who wasn't ready, and I wanted a BIG wedding....our own place.... there was a season... I waited for "peace in my heart"...I was not going to rush ahead, then have regrets later, ruin his life...... it all fell together beautifully....It was 'THE SEASON" for us...Preacher even used that scripture while we stood before him. 

I do not feel people should get married just cause they are burning with lust... don't agree with you at all. There is this one guy at my Church, within 8 yrs, this dude married 3 differnt women because he was trying to honor those LUST scriptures, they were all disaster marraiges.....look what he left behind. 

You know what kills me about Christians.... NONE of you can live up to those rediculous expectations....and the handful who do are so damn PROUD of it... they generally judge everyone around them. Also, I might add, the ones who DO... are likely lower drive people, or they would be going crazy. 

OK, I hear how you look at this... we are all sinners, sue me. Yep, that is all I ever got from Church... I am a pathetic lowly wretched sinner... I felt like I was worthless DUST for years..blood had to be shed for me to look my head up upon that cross... or I deserved Hell... My mother used to have this picture ....the blood dripping down Jesus face, along with the tears....damn what a GUILT TRIP ! How do you get that out of your head. 

Love how christians tell everyone they deserve hell without a sacrifice.... that is some nasty sh** rolling around in your head when we are growing up. 

Everything I did...listen to rock music, that was a sin..burned my Guns & ROses CD once in the fire..what was the point, when "Welcome to the Jungle" came on the radio, I couldn't resist jamming to it anyway, loved Highway to Hell too! Enjoyed soap operas...that was a sin...R rated sex scene...oh that was gooood ! I was nothing but pathetic.... eat too much chocolate, gluttony now... 

I no longer view my Creator as that much of a KILL JOY.....it was not healthy for my psyche to experience all of that. I had no desire to be that damn pure anyway. None of that was good news to me. I felt like a scourge all the time. 

Pleasure is a gift, We are still sexual even before we marry, to deny these things, is, in my opioion, is to set yourself up for the bullsh** I did. I went to one of those Purity Ring Seminars... last year ...WOW....they don't even think you should kiss..a lingering kiss. Really !! Getting too close to the creekbank. My Lord. Why set our standards THIS HIGH - when 99.9% is going to fail and take on guilt & shame for it. Did a thread on that too: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...r-silver-ring-thing-purity-ring-movement.html

I could no longer view God in the ways you do. I read all about where this stuff comes from, started with St Augustine & his connecting the Original Sin doctrine (I don't believe in that either) ....to SEX !

I got 6 kids to raise.. I don't want them to go through what I did. I want them to be "balanced".....the dating years are vital to how they go on and view these things. With all I have said here.. you likely get the idea I am for casual sex... NOT AT ALL. I even see it as sacred.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That would be fine if the need for sex consisted of nothing more than releasing pressure in the testicles. It's more than that. Men need an emotional connection that masturbating can't provide.
> 
> Your advice would be like me telling my wife that I know she needs to have conversations in order to connect with me. But, in my opinion, that need could be fulfilled if she stood in the corner, faced the wall, and talked to herself. After all, the words would still come out of her face. Therefore, her needs should be met.


Great break up my post and just take one part of it to prove your point. I advocated plenty of forms of intimacy that did not include sex or bj's. I said that masturbating was available between those times you have actual sex, which I still advocate should be at least 1X/wk in my perfect world of a LTR.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DTO said:


> It's funny that you make this point. I recently read an article where the author (apparently a devout Christian) asserts that waiting years and years to have any sex is indeed too much.
> 
> ........
> 
> ...


Appreciate you sharing this article ... now this Christian has some common sense. I am not a Christian basher, most of my friends are Christians... my oldest is a Worship Leader, wanna Be Youth Pastor. But even he , I feel is somewhat Repressed. I worry about this. 21 yrs old, believes in "Courting", doesn't even flirt, HE IS POPULAR, good looking ... but soooo "goody goody". He isn't a hypocrite anyway...just one of those ones following it all by the letter... but I fear what he is setting himself up for. 

He does struggle with looking at porn and HATES himself for it. Heck, at least I know he isn't gay! He accually said to me one day... he thinks that would be awesome to wait till your wedding day for your 1st kiss. I told him he was crazy!!! 

My biggest fear.. he is going to end up with a repressed virgin...after all this honorable waiting ... to see that happen to him... I would be livid! But hey, it's his life... his beliefs, I hope they don't bite him in the ass....he has sure gotten an earful from his Mother.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Your definition of reasonable is unreasonable. Proposing a sexual frequency of once a month is borderline sexless as defined by marriage counselors. We're not talking about horny teenagers saying once a month is unreasonable. We're talking about mental health professionals saying that such a paucity of sex leaves marriages vulnerable.
> 
> Also, no one on the other thread used 20x a month as the definition of reasonable. That's just the number the OP said she was using.
> 
> ...


Again you miss the point completely. I have said 1X/mth is sexless and have said to this woman (who refuses to really listen) that she should seek professional help to address her feelings and ideals. 

I think a "sexless" is completely unacceptable and sad unless both have that lack of desire and it is clearly outlined and understood by the parties. This is no different then someone who wants it more then 1X/day and does not make it 100% clear to their SO. Yes I think those having sex more then 1X/day is too much.

I also agree about the idea of bait & switch as reprehensible. In the case on the other thread she claims she talked to her husband about this prior to marriage, so technically there was no bait and switch and he knows 19 out of 20 (minimum is 9 out of 10) times they have sex she does not want to and is doing it solely for him and to fulfill his desires and he is pursuing her "everyday" for it. I have no idea how he handles this disconnect.


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I want to respond to this comment. If I was marreid to you ...I'd leave you. Of course you'd want rid of me too!! I'd be a pain up your ass.
> 
> My husband is MY HERO... I so wish he was High drive, but he is not -getting close to 50 soon. Even when I wanted it so much he couldn't keep up with me, even causing him some Performance Pressure (that we overcame together).. he loved me so much... he still wanted me to come to him... never turned me away .... even telling me he didn't want me to use toys, he wanted me to use HIM. He meant every word, I can't express how much that meant to me.
> 
> ...


This kinda bothers me. If say I said this, I would have a few verry pointed posters (usualy the same few posters) would be all over me like flies on sh*t. 
Why does it go unchanllenged by these people? Is it because she is a woman?
I think she offers a unique perspective because she has been on both sides of this. She understands what it's like for sex to be a "chore" and also understands what its like to want it all the time. She also understands that the LD spouse has it MUCH easier in this situation.
My first marriage I was the LD spouse. Not a day goes by that I don't regret the way I treated her. She did the right thing by leaving me, I just didn't love her in the manner that I should have. 
In my second marriage, I have been HD my wife LD. I never realized how much it makes a person feel unloved being turned down over and over by the one person that I have forsaken all others for. The same person whose sons I had taken in and have been the sole financial support for and have loved and treated as if they where my own. The same person for whom I would give my left arm for in a heartbeat. This destroys your self esteem. 
There are verry few things in life that are more improtant than feeling loved. When the one person who is supposed to love you above all others does not show it, it is a crushing feeling like verry few others I have felt. When I see people on here try to minimize this feeling it cracks me up. I use this analogy. It is kind of like me telling a pregnant woman "ya I know it sucks to be pregnant and give birth but do you have any idea how hard it is to deal with you when you are going through it, so stop whining and deal?". I have no idea and can never have any idea of how it feels to be pregnant but I won't minimize how you feel because I know you are going through much worse than I have it.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I stand by the OP and why I started the thread. One needs only to take a look and count the 264 "likes" given on this thread and almost all are those for people who taken the "other" side of my debate topic......

BTW Trenton wonderful post.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> I think you've misinterpreted the other thread. The poster stated she desires sex only when she is ovulating, once a month. She then stated that she thinks she should be free to decrease the sexual frequency in her marriage down to her optimal level. And that her husband should just get over any disappointment or betrayal he would inevitably feel.
> 
> In my opinion, and the opinion of many on this board, that attitude is the perfect example of selfishness in a marriage. She wants what she wants when she wants it. And her husband should just deal with it.
> 
> ...


The poster was honest about her desire for sex (or lack of) and questioned why she felt obligated to have sex so much more than she desired it when it felt bad. Simple as that. *I think many women agree with her on some level, at some point in their relationship*. Perhaps this is the ugly truth that we don't talk about in regards to women.

Whereas with men it seems like they're always being asked to control their desire for sex with their wives. 

I personally don't see single motherhood as a threat nor do I worry about my husband handing over his paycheck and worshiping me. None of those would ever be motivators for me to put out in a way my husband desires. I think men who say this are looking at it all wrong and pushing their wives away quite by accident or having sex with wives who only behave a certain way out of fear of loss. None of that seems authentic to me.

-AND-

In reality, divorce has heavy consequences for men too. 

Unless of course, they don't care about keeping their family in tact, seeing their children more often than they'd like and believe that sex outside of marriage is constant and easily met at the frequency they'd like.

Hence a man's threats are empty.

The only way for both a wife and husband to get what they want is through a deep connection where both are deeply committed to one another. Where a wife's motivation to please her husband sexually comes from it always feeling very good because of that connection and her *genuine *desire to please him overcomes her low drive.

This has been my experience.

I said that a man's sexuality is their weakness because it seems to me it's something that is always at the for front of their thinking. The irony of the differences in the two genders has men at a loss from the start. There will always be a need for control and balance between their desire for sex and their wive's desire for sex. Having said this, I can't imagine it or how frustrating it would be. I don't intend to make it sound negative but think I should call it what it seems to be.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

rundown said:


> This kinda bothers me. If say I said this, I would have a few verry pointed posters (usualy the same few posters) would be all over me like flies on sh*t.
> Why does it go unchanllenged by these people? Is it because she is a woman?


 You are absolutely right, I also believe men would get beat up relentlessly if they even suggested what I did ---saying it is "easy" for women. I take some heat here too with the woman... Thier objections to me is: the man has to be lacking in the emotional or we should have more self control over our lusts....learn to sacrifice for our spouse. 



> I think she offers a unique perspective because she has been on both sides of this. She understands what it's like for sex to be a "chore" and also understands what its like to want it all the time.


 Let me correct 1 thing about myself... I NEVER looked at sex as a chore, never had a shred of resentment either. I do not believe I was ever Low drive (so maybe I don't even count)... I was Repressed...and didn't feel those LUSTFUL pangs but once a week ....more if I was aroused by something... just didn't think about it as much inbetween sessions. 

Then at one time I was Pissed off at the world because I couldn't get pregnant & at that time I tried to "schedule" our encounters to conceive... this HURT my husband tremendously -but he sucked it up silently... also during that time orgasms meant far less to me -more hurt , cause my husband IS a Pleaser at heart. 

All I wanted was his sperm...in that respect I failed badly as a wife who cared -what he needed from me. Still enjoyed sex though...he wouldn't have even touched me if I had an attitude- like a chore. 




> She also understands that the LD spouse has it MUCH easier in this situation.


 When I compare when it wasn't on the radar to when it was flying off the richter scale ..... OH MY GOD ...YES!!!!! 


> My first marriage I was the LD spouse. Not a day goes by that I don't regret the way I treated her. She did the right thing by leaving me, I just didn't love her in the manner that I should have.


 Nice to hear someone admit this. 



> In my second marriage, I have been HD my wife LD. I never realized how much it makes a person feel unloved being turned down over and over by the one person that I have forsaken all others for. The same person whose sons I had taken in and have been the sole financial support for and have loved and treated as if they where my own. The same person for whom I would give my left arm for in a heartbeat. This destroys your self esteem.


 I agree with your every word. It does destroy you. For me, just imaging it ....was enough.




> There are verry few things in life that are more improtant than feeling loved. When the one person who is supposed to love you above all others does not show it, it is a crushing feeling like verry few others I have felt.


Love your post Rundown!


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

"People obsessed with sex on TAM"

My guess is, people who are obsessed with it are the ones either A) Likely not getting much of it. Or B) There may be some who have a actual addiction. 

Other than that, most people I would think who are getting a decent satisfying sex life are not that obsessed with it. JMO.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, due to the number of replies to the OP I'd have to say that YES, people on TAM are obsessed with sex...


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You are absolutely right, I also believe men would get beat up relentlessly if they even suggested what I did ---saying it is "easy" for women. I take some heat here too with the woman... Thier objections to me is: the man has to be lacking in the emotional or we should have more self control over our lusts....learn to sacrifice for our spouse.
> 
> Let me correct 1 thing about myself... I NEVER looked at sex as a chore, never had a shred of resentment either. I do not believe I was ever Low drive (so maybe I don't even count)... I was Repressed...and didn't feel those LUSTFUL pangs but once a week ....more if I was aroused by something... just didn't think about it as much inbetween sessions.
> 
> ...



Thank you. The problem is, the people that it was directed at probibly won't reply.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Jamison said:


> "People obsessed with sex on TAM"
> 
> My guess is, people who are obsessed with it are the ones either A) Likely not getting much of it. Or B) There may be some who have a actual addiction.
> 
> Other than that, most people I would think who are getting a decent satisfying sex life are not that obsessed with it. JMO.


I've always believed those in "the desert" no matter what they are lacking..... have a greater







for what they are thirsting for... whether it be for LOVE, ROMANCE and yes.. the pleasure of all pleasures...SEX ....they posses the deepest expression to the pain , write the most tearfully moving of love songs when their hearts are ripped to peices , they feel a deep well of NEED -over those who are fullfilled every day. Definitely. 

I do believe I had some kind of sex addiction for 8 full months, it was hormonally induced -for whaterever reason, I didn't take any meds... (I have my speculations though).....I had so many physical symptoms, it was not something I was able to lay down...SOMETHING was stirring in my body... and it wouldn't let go. Whoever says hormones don't affect our minds -never expeirenced what I did. 

I bought a few books on the subject even.. this one >> Women, Sex, and Addiction: A Search for Love and Power  ...... after reading a few pages, what was being decribed was NOT me at all.... many women have endless sex to fill the need for LOVE... this was not my issue. Always knew how loved I was... .. I was just horny 24 freaking 7.... LUST raging. I just couldn't get enough. 

My husband didn't know what HIT him... after years of wanting more, he sure wasn't going to complain. I would get a little out of sorts at times but a woman coming after you to screw her was better than a cold prude anyday. That is how he felt. I started to feel like a burden and he laughed at me saying "Sex... a burden, are you CRAZY". LOVE that man! 

I did start joking with him how I was waiting for my next FIX... and during that time, even with sex near every day... I still felt like I was in a desert --cause I wanted to ride 3 times a day.

If he wouldn't have allowed me to touch him, I think I would went MAD. It would have felt like WITHDRAWL to me. I so wish I would have had my Test checked. I sent him to get his Checked! I did ask my Obgyn, she just brushed it off & said to enjoy it .... so we got through it. 

NOW....if there is any addiction going on... it is an addiction to the "emotional connection" with my husband....it brings us both happiness, and keeps up on a high. I guess we are like that 70's hit by Sweet ...."Love is like Oxygen"..... You get too much, you get too high...not enough and you're gonna die.

I can still write passionately about it -cause I am on that "HIGH" I suppose.. but thankfully no longer feeling like a desert. I soooo FEEL for those who are .

It just isn't right - within a marraige.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You are speaking out of 2 sides of your mouth here... My church was teaching me EXACTLY what you believe... You just said it ...LUST BETWEEN anyone not married is NOT GOOD = sinful.


Sandc isn't being duplicitous. Lust within marriage is acceptable in the Christian faith. Lust outside of marriage is sinful. Marriage is the distinguishing factor.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Love how christians tell everyone they deserve hell without a sacrifice.... that is some nasty sh** rolling around in your head when we are growing up.


Your enmity for Christians is misplaced. The one you have a problem with is God. He's the one who created the life, and afterlife, we have to live. You're just blaming the messenger.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Pleasure is a gift, We are still sexual even before we marry, to deny these things, is, in my opioion, is to set yourself up for the bullsh** I did.


Sex is a pleasure to share with your spouse. I think we have a bigger problem with promiscuity in our society than we do with repressed virgins. I had sex with women before I married. I'm not glad that I did. I'm not glad that my wife has had other partners besides me.

Statistically, the more partners a woman has before marriage, the higher her risk of divorce. But hey, at least she won't be repressed.



SimplyAmorous said:


> I could no longer view God in the ways you do. I read all about where this stuff comes from, started with St Augustine & his connecting the Original Sin doctrine (I don't believe in that either) ....to SEX !


Paul was writing of the sin of lust a few hundred years before Augustine was born.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

If 1 or 2 times a week is okay for you. Then fine.

It's not okay for others and that's fine too.

You need to calm down on all of this. You seem like a man hater.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Sandc isn't being duplicitous. Lust within marriage is acceptable in the Christian faith. Lust outside of marriage is sinful. Marriage is the distinguishing factor.
> 
> 
> *Your enmity for Christians is misplaced. The one you have a problem with is God. He's the one who created the life, and afterlife, we have to live. You're just blaming the messenger.*
> ...


As a catholic I find this statement to be inaccurate. The "messenger" as you put it has been skewing and contorting the message for 100's of years to suit their own selfish need for power.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm going to say something that may be controversial but I feel needs to be said. I think to many LD spouses the act of "giving sex" becomes a power struggle and a way to manipulate their partner. When I was young and naive there were a couple of times I refused sex because I was mad that I didn't get my own way during an argument or issue. It didn't matter whether I was right or wrong. It didn't matter if Beowulf offered a reasonable compromise. I didn't win so I was mad. Therefore since I knew sex meant so much to him I refused him to get back at him. And it did hurt hm so I guess I accomplished my goal. Frankly I don't think there is a woman alive that hasn't done this at one point or another. Maybe they say to themselves that they are angry and therefore aren't "in the mood" but IMO they are really using sex as a weapon. Thankfully I only did it a couple of times and realized how stupid it was. And since I'm HD I doubt I'd be able to go that long without sex anyway. But I think many LD wives use sex in this way more often than they will admit.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Just a quick comment about strength and weakness.

It has been shown that a persons extreme love for another to thier own detriment is a weakness. We tell these men to man-up. Yes, you can call it nudge towards the self or selfishness. To have self respect because no one will respect you if you do not respect yourself. Yet a person who can show love and compassion is the epitome of strength. They are strong for their family and their marriage. So love itself can be shown to be both a strength and a weakness. We can be trendy and call everything an addiction.

Anything we need can be shown as a weakness. So men who need sex have a weakness of sex. If they need respect that is a weakness. If they need food and water that is a weakness. If a woman needs attention that is a weakness and so on.

It is a weakness that most of us have to make a living for our families.

So His Needs Her Needs can be painted as defining weaknesses. 

But this is the point folks. These weaknesses are why men and women seek each other out. These weaknesses are not meant to separate us but to join us together. When it works we complement each other. Which in marriage is a strength.

I pursue many things. In my balance of pursuits I do things that increase my sex drive. I lift weights, eat and take natural supplements that tend to make me a stronger man. Having this stronger drive makes me more successful well beyond my sex drive. This sex drive is one very important need that bonds me to my wife. That bond with her makes me strong. Yes, I need her. I strive to need her. It makes me strong. Seemingly contradictory things exist in harmony in the universe and depend on each other for their existence. So a man's sexual needs make him weak and strong at the same time. 

I see time and time again about what we show as being attractive in a man. It of course is a balance of traits. Take away that testosterone in that man and what do you have? He is seen as weak.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

PHTlump said:


> Sex is a pleasure to share with your spouse. I think we have a bigger problem with promiscuity in our society than we do with repressed virgins. I had sex with women before I married. I'm not glad that I did. I'm not glad that my wife has had other partners besides me.
> 
> Statistically, the more partners a woman has before marriage, the higher her risk of divorce. But hey, at least she won't be repressed.


PHTlump... I assume you are a Christian man... I couldn't agree with you more on these points right here ! :smthumbup: Absolutely ! I also feel Promiscuity is a MONSTER of a problem , the slow death of families. I do not think you are getting what I am trying to say at all. I try to be so articulate, I must be loosing it. 

Do you have daughters? I would so very very much appreciate it ....if you would take the time & read how I REALLY DEEPLY feel about this issue... I put my heart & soul into this thread... about the pre-marital..... I will not use religion, however, to teach my daughter.... to shame her into NOT doing something... this is not my way of parenting. We still go to church once in a while, they will get enough of that there. 

I use common sense, intergity, honesty, about how to rightly treat other people, to make RIGHT decisions for RIGHT living to ensure a bright future -without regrets ... how sex is handled before the wedding... this is not a little matter to me by any means. If you disagree with ANYTHING I say in this thread...or agree, I would LOVE your feedback (could post in that thread). 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html

.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I think sex is important in a relationship. Do I think its the be all to end all? Nope. I do think some people come across as they will die without it. 

If in fact thats how they feel and they are not getting those needs met for whatever reason, then perhaps you are mismatched and need to find a partner who will suit your needs.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Morrigan said:


> Frankly I don't think there is a woman alive that hasn't done this at one point or another. Maybe they say to themselves that they are angry and therefore aren't "in the mood" but IMO they are really using sex as a weapon.


Honestly I have never done this -ever. But my husband is just one of those wonderful men who always treated me beautifully, he was never aggressive about wanting sex either. I turned him down for other reasons (bad timing for conception, I didn't want to put my book down).... never to manipulate. I was never too tired either (which is unheard of), I always had more energy than him. He rarely made me mad about anything, he is one in a million. Just being honest.

So nice to see the wife posting too !


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Morrigan said:


> I think many LD wives use sex in this way more often than they will admit.


My LD friend did this all the time and honestly I didn't blame her. Her husband treated her like crap and then expected sex??? Um no.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> My LD friend did this all the time and honestly I didn't blame her. Her husband treated her like crap and then expected sex??? Um no.


But that just starts a vicious cycle and nothing gets resolved. I understand not wanting to have sex with someone that mistreats you but that's not a solution imo.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Morrigan said:


> But that just starts a vicious cycle and nothing gets resolved. I understand not wanting to have sex with someone that mistreats you but that's not a solution imo.


She told him, she drug him to counseling, she read books, she talked to everyone to get advice, she took bible studies, she tried giving him more sex, she withheld sex, she cleaned the house, she cooked, she did what TAM would tell her to do (via me), in short she left no stone unturned trying to save her marriage.

In the end after YEARS of trying he just refused to do anything and now she's divorcing him.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> My LD friend did this all the time and honestly I didn't blame her. Her husband treated her like crap and then expected sex??? Um no.


You know I agree with this because so many people think that women use sex as a weapon to not have sex etc. I do believe SOME women do. However there is usually more to the story I'm sure, or it is in my case. For example. 

I have never once thought of me not wanting to have sex with my husband much, being used as a weapon or a way to punish. Over the years dealing with a alcoholic, who even now in recovery, still blames, put downs, criticizes, makes all things out to be my fault, has a temper etc, well umm that doesn't make me feel close or want to be intimate with him. He knows this and its been explained to him, but since he has that black/white thinking its not sinking in, all he sees is what he is not getting, not WHY that might be. 

HE is part of what can make that closeness/sexual intimacy happen. If he isn't doing his part then is it fair to keep on laying down with a man who can continue to treat you a certain way while he still gets his way, sex? I don't think so. 

Luckily I'm in therapy dealing with a lot of this. My counselor said that a lot of my emotional core was damaged due to the way I was treated etc. That emotional core is what helps me feel sexual and close to him, if its damaged, you can't expect it to work properly. I'm learning that I may need to walk away from someone who just doesn't get the whole picture of why things might be the way they are, and they are a big factor in him getting what he feels he needs/wants. 

Bottom line, its not always used as a weapon or a way to punish. Sometimes people have a real legit reason for feeling the way they do. In the end you either get help for what the issue is or you move on.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> She told him, she drug him to counseling, she read books, she talked to everyone to get advice, she took bible studies, she tried giving him more sex, she withheld sex, she cleaned the house, she cooked, she did what TAM would tell her to do (via me), in short she left no stone unturned trying to save her marriage.
> 
> In the end after YEARS of trying he just refused to do anything and now she's divorcing him.


Its sad that people can become so entrenched in their own stubbornness that they end up losing everything.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

sinnister said:


> As a catholic I find this statement to be inaccurate. The "messenger" as you put it has been skewing and contorting the message for 100's of years to suit their own selfish need for power.


I agree that men can misinterpret the Bible both intentionally and unintentionally. But that's not the issue in this case. The Bible is explicit on fornication as sin.


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## Morrigan (Jan 18, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> Hi Morrigan. Sorry for jumping in here.
> 
> I think I'm a good father and I taught both my daughters that if a man doesn't treat you well (very good),
> don't reward him. Never reward him (I'm talking everything here, not just sex).
> ...


No, but there is a difference between being treated badly and not winning an argument. Although some people can't see the difference. For instance, one of the times I refused him sex is because he wouldn't go out with me to visit my sister. Now on the surface people will say he was being a jerk. But the other part of the story is that I had a bad habit of committing US to something without asking him and without telling him until the last minute. So this time he refused to go. I was mad and wouldn't have sex with him for a week. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Not serious mistreatment.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trenton said:


> The poster was honest about her desire for sex (or lack of) and questioned why she felt obligated to have sex so much more than she desired it when it felt bad. Simple as that. *I think many women agree with her on some level, at some point in their relationship*. Perhaps this is the ugly truth that we don't talk about in regards to women.


You are correct in your assessment of the poster's position. You are incorrect in your belief that her position isn't selfish. It is.



Trenton said:


> I personally don't see single motherhood as a threat nor do I worry about my husband handing over his paycheck and worshiping me. None of those would ever be motivators for me to put out in a way my husband desires. I think men who say this are looking at it all wrong and pushing their wives away quite by accident or having sex with wives who only behave a certain way out of fear of loss. None of that seems authentic to me.


Just because marriage isn't always a Disney fantasy doesn't mean it's not authentic. I think the Disney fantasy is inauthentic. Marriage is about give and take and compromise. If a wife expects her husband to hand over his paycheck and then never ask her to compromise, then that wife is selfish and the marriage is probably not a happy one.



Trenton said:


> In reality, divorce has heavy consequences for men too. ... Hence a man's threats are empty.


What a loving attitude you have. Marriage should be mutually assured destruction, eh? Men can't be happy in marriage, but let's make sure they'll be more miserable if they divorce. Awesome.

To make matters worse, your threats don't even work. Divorce is up, in case you haven't noticed. Most marriages fail. I wonder if the selfish attitudes you promote could have anything to do with it? Probably not.



Trenton said:


> The only way for both a wife and husband to get what they want is through a deep connection where both are deeply committed to one another. Where a wife's motivation to please her husband sexually comes from it always feeling very good because of that connection and her *genuine *desire to please him overcomes her low drive.


Now this is true. And it goes both ways. Very often, the way to get your needs met is to work to meet the needs of your spouse. People working together are generally happier than people working against each other.



Trenton said:


> I said that a man's sexuality is their weakness because it seems to me it's something that is always at the for front of their thinking. The irony of the differences in the two genders has men at a loss from the start. There will always be a need for control and balance between their desire for sex and their wive's desire for sex. Having said this, I can't imagine it or how frustrating it would be. I don't intend to make it sound negative but think I should call it what it seems to be.


As Entropy pointed out, each sex has unique traits. A successful marriage negotiates this fact. Personally, I wouldn't call a man's sex drive a weakness any more than I would call a woman's menstrual cycle a weakness. It's part of who we are. Sometimes it's inconvenient. Sometimes it's beneficial. And complaining about it is somewhere between useless and harmful.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Morrigan said:


> Its sad that people can become so entrenched in their own stubbornness that they end up losing everything.


It is sad and I now have a front row seat to watch it. He is going to lose everything but he's so emotionally damaged from childhood that he can't see it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> I think sex is important in a relationship. Do I think its the be all to end all? Nope. I do think some people come across as they will die without it.
> 
> If in fact thats how they feel and they are not getting those needs met for whatever reason,* then perhaps you are mismatched and need to find a partner who will suit your needs.*


My marriage would be dead without a sexual relationship. If there was a real medical reason for this I would stay with my wife but yes that would be the death of a very important thing. It is not like giving up bowling or the end of the Seinfeld series.

I agree with the conclusion. This is also why I think couples need to talk things out BEFORE marriage. Why they should do His Needs Her Needs BEFORE marriage. Some folks choose to wait for marriage before having sex. Ok fine. But then lets cut them some slack in that they may find they are incompatible.

Spouses do evolve. Changes occur in them and their lives. We see very often that a sexual relationship is very satisfying for a couple for many years and then it falls off. For those folks I feel it is well worth pursuing the reasons for the drop off and trying to get back on track. One spouse saying oh well, that is over seems a bit disengenuous. Almost a bait and switch. There may indeed be real reasons for the changes that have to be factored in. It takes two to work together on this.

If one or the other is not willing to do what it takes to work it out, I believe the marriage they had is over. Because the issues go way beyond just sex.

For still others having children effectively replace thier spouse for ALL of their love and attention. Sometimes it is work that does this.

Marriage needs to be one of seeking happiness together for a couple. We all go through tought times. I do not think marriage is something to be treated lightly. I fully expect that I will be married exactly one time in my life.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Laureen said:


> I just wanted to respond as a woman who constantly had sex because my husband never stops thinking about it... He is mid 40 and he walks around as stiff as a teenager.
> 
> Today, thank God, my husband has come to learn that he has never shown me respect in that area of our lives. (there were many, many areas - which are all being addressed) but I am just replying to the daily sex.
> 
> ...


Your honesty is amazing but I feel as though you have made yourself a victim and now resent your husband for wanting to be with his wife. Husbands cheat, husbands stop wanting to be intimate with their spouses... yet you are upset because your husband can't get enough of you. You resent him for it.

Do you think when you tell him about your day and he smiles or converses back, he doesn't have to work on it? When you say a cute joke and he smiles and laughs, do you think he is grinning and bearing it? Do you think he really wants to hear about YOUR day? If someone that wasn't his wife was to sit him down each day and talk to him about their day, do you think he would sit down and smile, listen, and converse? OF COURSE HE WOULDN'T. It takes work to be married, and if guys resented their wives for having to pay attention, give attention, or just communicating, noone would be happy. Does that mean he resents you because you want his attention? Does that mean he resents you because you want him to be there for you when you need him? 

As selfish as you say he is for thinking about "his needs", you overlook the concept that you are "selfish" thinking everything else in the relationship HE DOES is SOOOOOOOOOOO easy. Like, being a good husband is the easiest thing on earth, while giving up sex is the worst chore ever. That's SELFISH. What you do for him is so much greater than what he has done for you? 

Also, you were not "forced" to do anything, that's a victim mentality. I am sorry, using the word "forced" when sex is consensual is just flat out wrong and offensive. That is a powerful word and so many women use that word to get sympathy, which helps foster this victim mentality. I have been "forced" to give my wife attention for 20 years now, should I resent her?

I am "forced" to stay faithful, I am "forced" to never look at another woman, I am "forced" to not go out and get sex from SOMEONE each night (because my wife resents me for wanting her), whether it be my wife or not, I am "forced" to open her door when we get out of our car, I am "forced" to do all the manly things around the house which she is also capable of doing, I am "forced" to listen and pay attention to everything that goes on her life...... I'd assume, a good man wouldn't have to be "forced" to do any of the above, it should just come naturally with the concept of loving your wife. The same could be said about you though. 

This is a classic example of what happens when a person sees the negative aspects. Is he forcing you to be with him or is he so attracted to you he can't get enough? Is he having sex with you each night making you resent and hate him or is he staying at home faithful each night and having sex with the only person you allow him too? Is he telling you he has to have you and being selfish or is he communicating and letting you know what he needs to be the good husband you want him to be out of the bedroom? 

It's a slippery slope and negativity ruins marriages. The word "force" is as negative as it gets. Good luck with that.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Morrigan said:


> Its sad that people can become so entrenched in their own stubbornness that they end up losing everything.


Although it may be sad, I think you make the bed you lie in.
After delving into my failed marriage, I'm fairly certain that 
my ex is and has always been mentally disturbed and her actions were preplanned before we married. Material things were provided for her and her children from the start of our relationship and she assumed any guy would do the same for her benefit.
Now that she's homeless and living alone (as far as I know) reality has struck and who do you think she is trying to once again foot the bill?:crazy:


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Laureen said:


> I don't care how fantastic everything is in the marriage. She could be treated like a treasure in all areas... But, if sex is being required daily then really, of what value is REALLY being placed on her?



That is probably the most selfish thing I have ever read. I'd kill to be treated like a treasure in all areas, to give up 30 minutes of my day in return to this person who treats me like a treasure. I do not care if I had to stand in a corner holding two heavy buckets in each hand for 30 minutes, I would do it EASILY (especially if for some weird reason, this is what made that person who treats me like a treasure happy). However, sex is NOT like standing in a corner holding to heavy buckets, sex is part of a marriage. Marriage is give and take. It is no longer about YOU, it's about US. You seem to be stuck on YOU.

To be treated like a treasure in all areas by my wife would be absolutely amazing. One could only wish.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> You are correct in your assessment of the poster's position. You are incorrect in your belief that her position isn't selfish. It is.
> 
> 
> Just because marriage isn't always a Disney fantasy doesn't mean it's not authentic. I think the Disney fantasy is inauthentic. Marriage is about give and take and compromise. If a wife expects her husband to hand over his paycheck and then never ask her to compromise, then that wife is selfish and the marriage is probably not a happy one.
> ...


What are you promoting to have sex with your husband whenever he wants and then every body will be happy? There is no compromise with that way of thinking. The poster who is a man also was talking about a woman who gives up her self whenever her husband wants and she is not happy about it. She needs to tell him that but keeps it to her self. I dont know where Disney came in this. That is a cartoon and as you said fantasy. Any body who thinks cartoon is real have a screw lose. Two things you said bother me. You said most marriage fails. What I read says half of marriage fails so that means half succeds right? Half of all marriages today will see it to the end. The other thing you said that bothers me is that you think men hand over a check. Where I live women work as things cost a lot. I dont know any woman who doesnt so I dont know why you think men do the work and women dont. I agree that spouses need to work with each other. Working away from each other doesnt work.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> That is probably the most selfish thing I have ever read. I'd kill to be treated like a treasure in all areas, to give up 30 minutes of my day in return to this person who treats me like a treasure. I do not care if I had to stand in a corner holding two heavy buckets in each hand for 30 minutes, I would do it EASILY (especially if for some weird reason, this is what made that person who treats me like a treasure happy). However, sex is NOT like standing in a corner holding to heavy buckets, sex is part of a marriage. Marriage is give and take. It is no longer about YOU, it's about US. You seem to be stuck on YOU.
> 
> To be treated like a treasure in all areas by my wife would be absolutely amazing. One could only wish.


I dont under stand you. She said she has been in years of selfish behavior with a man who didnt care about her needs at all only thinking of him self. Would you be willing to do some thing that you got nothing out of only giving up every thing for some one for years and years and still have a smile on your face? What if your wife never did any thing to pleasure you sexually and you were left cold. Would you be happy and call your self selfish for wanting more?


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

sinnister said:


> If 1 or 2 times a week is okay for you. Then fine.
> 
> It's not okay for others and that's fine too.
> 
> You need to calm down on all of this. You seem like a man hater.


:iagree: Havesomethingtosay is also backpedalling because others have found compelling reasons why her views are ridiculous. First she said that she would feel used if sex was expected more than once a month, then she posted the complete opposite POV that once a month is sexless.

For the record, I don't think most members on TAM would be happy with one sexual encounter a month. Anyone who thinks that is enough has unrealistic expectations of sex in a marriage.

I don't understand the compulsion to tell others what is right and wrong in their own bedrooms. :scratchhead:


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> I don't understand the compulsion to tell others what is right and wrong in their own bedrooms. :scratchhead:


*chuckles* Sure you do. It's just ugly so you don't want to spell it out.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Aristotle said:


> Your honesty is amazing but I feel as though you have made yourself a victim and now resent your husband for wanting to be with his wife. Husbands cheat, husbands stop wanting to be intimate with their spouses... yet you are upset because your husband can't get enough of you. You resent him for it.
> 
> Do you think when you tell him about your day and he smiles or converses back, he doesn't have to work on it? When you say a cute joke and he smiles and laughs, do you think he is grinning and bearing it? Do you think he really wants to hear about YOUR day? If someone that wasn't his wife was to sit him down each day and talk to him about their day, do you think he would sit down and smile, listen, and converse? OF COURSE HE WOULDN'T. It takes work to be married, and if guys resented their wives for having to pay attention, give attention, or just communicating, noone would be happy. Does that mean he resents you because you want his attention? Does that mean he resents you because you want him to be there for you when you need him?
> 
> ...


Well said. For the most part I live my life for my family. Many of us do. It is a lot of work. I do not look at it as being forced to. I think you are providing an important perspective. I see this "work" as a labor of love. I know she needs this from me so it is not without satisfaction. That said, I can relate. I go out of my way to listen to her and to do things I know she appreciates even though it is not something I crave to do myself. It is not always about ME. So know your spouses critical needs and do all you can to meet them. I think this has something to do with loving them.

We continually see that when a husband is not meeting his wife's needs that they must man up and do what needs to be done. If he is not showing affection and attention this is often used as justification for a wife seeking out other men. The man is seen as uncaring and selfish. I think he is.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

MominMayberry said:


> I dont under stand you. She said she has been in years of selfish behavior with a man who didnt care about her needs at all only thinking of him self. Would you be willing to do some thing that you got nothing out of only giving up every thing for some one for years and years and still have a smile on your face? What if your wife never did any thing to pleasure you sexually and you were left cold. Would you be happy and call your self selfish for wanting more?


Read what I quoted again:



> I don't care how fantastic everything is in the marriage. She could be treated like a treasure in all areas... But, if sex is being required daily then really, of what value is REALLY being placed on her?


If he treated her like a treasure in all areas, then I'd place the value of treasure on her. 

Intimacy and sex is what sets apart a great marriage from a great friendship. Nothing is "fantastic in a marriage" if one of the persons involved in that marriage rejects the others need for intimacy. To be that self centered and stuck on the idea of, 'me giving him my body for 30 minutes a day is more important than him giving me EVERYTHING and treating me like a treasure for 23 hours and 30 minutes a day." That is selfish. I understand we are taught our bodies our sacred, but you're married now. His body is yours, yours is his. The concept of marriage is you give yourself to someone else; "to have and to hold, to love and to cherish..."

In marriage, your body isn't worth more or less than his mind (as young adults we are taught sex is bad, our bodies are private, your virginity is sacred -- all changes with marriage). It feels awkward saying, but honestly, the one thing I'd never want to lose is my mind (insert joke here). It's the most important, by far, thing I possess. I think, therefore I am. Now, I spend my mind and attention to a woman for 23 hours a day, and treat her like an absolute treasure, and she resents me for wanting her body for 30 minutes?

I will never understand that.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Aristotle said:


> Read what I quoted again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Read what I quoted again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you mis understood me or I did you. She has been starved for years from her needs and he was only caring about him self. I dont think it is as easy as just forget and fall in love. I think I should stop with my post this is much like my early part of marriage. Anger is some thing that is hard to forget.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MominMayberry said:


> What are you promoting to have sex with your husband whenever he wants and then every body will be happy? There is no compromise with that way of thinking.


Of course not. I'm talking about married couples having sex a reasonable amount so that the need for sexual intimacy in the marriage is satisfied. In the other thread, the poster stated that she should be able to have sex only when she wanted it and should not be required to consider her husband's needs. That's selfish. It amazes me that any one will even argue that it isn't.



MominMayberry said:


> I dont know where Disney came in this. That is a cartoon and as you said fantasy. Any body who thinks cartoon is real have a screw lose.


Exactly. Disney came into this because when women argue that they should not be required to compromise or to consider their husbands' feelings, then what they want isn't a real marriage. They want the Disney fantasy where men either don't have needs, or they need the same thing women need and everybody lives happily ever after in a nice, big castle. As you point out, it isn't real.



MominMayberry said:


> Two things you said bother me. You said most marriage fails. What I read says half of marriage fails so that means half succeds right? Half of all marriages today will see it to the end.


That's true. I guess my point of divorce rates being high isn't valid. Unless you consider a 50% divorce rate to be high.



MominMayberry said:


> The other thing you said that bothers me is that you think men hand over a check. Where I live women work as things cost a lot. I dont know any woman who doesnt so I dont know why you think men do the work and women dont.


Men tend to earn more than women. So husbands are typically the primary earners in families. And women tend to place a high value on men earning a good salary. So my comments were just acknowledging those facts, not arguing that women don't work.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Those women who have never held a job that could support themselves and/or their family need to consider doing so. The one I was married to never did and now that she's on her own, she has nothing to say when a potential job interviewer asks what she had been doing to provide for herself over the last twenty three years.
What she going to say? "Pulling a train" at my ex husband's expense?
It sucks to be her, NOW.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Angel5112 said:


> I'm sorry, but even if my H did treat me like a treasure in all areas I would not be okay with sex being REQUIRED every day, so I can relate to the POV you quoted.
> 
> That is just too much for me and would make me feel devalued, like he only wanted me for sex. It would be the exact opposite of treating me like a treasure. I have sacrificed and made a compromise that once per month is not okay for him. Once per day is not okay for me and would most likely make me resent sex in a big way.
> 
> ...


I notice two things. You are stuck on the word required. That's too bad. You paid attention to your husbands sex drive prior to deciding to marry him. Good for you.

It's not possible for all married couple to have sex daily. I agree. I just feel a woman rejecting a good husband's need for intimacy, even if it's every other day, is selfish.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I notice two things. You are stuck on the word required. That's too bad. You paid attention to your husbands sex drive prior to deciding to marry him. Good for you.
> 
> It's not possible for all married couple to have sex daily. I agree. I just feel a woman rejecting a good husband's need for intimacy, even if it's every other day, is selfish.


A relationship that meets the needs of your partner 50% of the time will fail.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> *chuckles* Sure you do. It's just ugly so you don't want to spell it out.


What do you mean by this?  Sorry, I don't get it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Seems like at the core we have an unresolvable issue. At a level that potentially goes deeper than the LD / HD thing, people just don't agree over the appropriate place of sex in one's life.

You have folks that strive to strike a workable balance between each partner's needs. You have folks that feel sex is private and not open to negotiation. Still others think it's inherently bad, only for procreation, and so on.

If you go back to that other thread (we all know which), the OP asks why she must give her husband everything + sex. It's apparent that this OP can accept the practical need for sex in her marriage (to keep her DH happy), but unlikely that she will ever see mutual sexual satisfaction as an integral part of marriage.

Such issues are just irreconcilable I suppose.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

DTO said:


> Such issues are just irreconcilable I suppose.


I think the fact that we are now 20 pages into this thread and folks are still in strong opposition supports that position.

I do think folks may need to just agree to disagree on this issue. For the most part this thread is becoming repetitive, with each side restating the same points in different ways.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> You are correct in your assessment of the poster's position. You are incorrect in your belief that her position isn't selfish. It is.
> 
> Just because marriage isn't always a Disney fantasy doesn't mean it's not authentic. I think the Disney fantasy is inauthentic. Marriage is about give and take and compromise. If a wife expects her husband to hand over his paycheck and then never ask her to compromise, then that wife is selfish and the marriage is probably not a happy one.
> 
> ...


_She is being unselfish in choosing to have sex with him to his liking even though she doesn't find it pleasant._ *She is being selfish because she has a certain level of desire. * We can get on the whole everyone is selfish thing but I'm pretty sure we can agree that we all do have desires/wants/needs, yes? These are selfish by definition but hardly the definition of selfish used to describe someone in a negative way, no?

I'm not the one painting the picture. You are trying to sell me a line that a woman who counts her own desires as important as her husbands is essentially going to end up alone, poor and her children will be fatherless. It's you who painted that picture. I simply pointed out that it was a one sided picture and that men will also suffer consequences from divorce or lacking compromise in a marriage.

I'm not talking fairy tales here either. I get the feeling you have to continually discount my words in order to stick to your stick. You're failing to see there are two sides just as there are two sides in every marriage.

I'm OK with that. It's your life, not mine. Bottom line for me is that for a marriage to have a chance compromise, patience and balance needs to be maintained. It's work to wade through selfish/unselfishness to get to a place where both spouses are satisfied most of the time.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trenton said:


> _She is being unselfish in choosing to have sex with him to his liking even though she doesn't find it pleasant._ *She is being selfish because she has a certain level of desire. * We can get on the whole everyone is selfish thing but I'm pretty sure we can agree that we all do have desires/wants/needs, yes? These are selfish by definition but hardly the definition of selfish used to describe someone in a negative way, no?


I agree that her attitude is selfish and her actions are not. I've written that before in this thread. However, this is not just a case of her thinking the selfish thoughts that we all have. Personally, I wouldn't mind having a harem of girls devoted to pleasing me sexually. Of course, I recognise that desire as being unreasonable and selfish. Kind of like wouldn't it be nice if I could fly, or read minds. Therefore, I wouldn't waste any time going on an Internet forum, declaring my belief that I am entitled to a harem, and asking for feedback. The fact that the poster in the other thread started it in the first place is proof that she's pretty selfish.



Trenton said:


> I'm not the one painting the picture. You are trying to sell me a line that a woman who counts her own desires as important as her husbands is essentially going to end up alone, poor and her children will be fatherless. It's you who painted that picture. I simply pointed out that it was a one sided picture and that men will also suffer consequences from divorce or lacking compromise in a marriage.


I have never denied the fact that men and women both suffer from divorce. I have only stated the fact that selfish women who neglect their husbands may be faced with the consequences of divorce. You were the one who stated that, since men also suffer in divorce, threats of divorce were empty. There are millions of divorced women in this country who will strongly disagree. The fact is that, for many men, the consequences of divorce are preferable to the consequences of staying married to an unreasonably selfish wife.



Trenton said:


> I'm not talking fairy tales here either. I get the feeling you have to continually discount my words in order to stick to your stick. You're failing to see there are two sides just as there are two sides in every marriage.


To the contrary. My entire premise is that marriage requires compromise. It's the Disney princess wannabees who become angry at the very notion. Go back through this very thread to find examples of posters who insist that women should not be required to compromise. Or that they should compromise on some things, just not on sex. Look at the OP of the other thread who believes that her sexual desires should trump her husband's and she shouldn't have to compromise.



Trenton said:


> Bottom line for me is that for a marriage to have a chance compromise, patience and balance needs to be maintained. It's work to wade through selfish/unselfishness to get to a place where both spouses are satisfied most of the time.


You're exactly right. I just fail to see how the concrete example a woman who wants to force her husband into a sexless marriage meets your ideal of unselfishness and balance.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> I'm sorry, but even if my H did treat me like a treasure in all areas I would not be okay with sex being REQUIRED every day, so I can relate to the POV you quoted.
> 
> That is just too much for me and would make me feel devalued, like he only wanted me for sex. It would be the exact opposite of treating me like a treasure. I have sacrificed and made a compromise that once per month is not okay for him. Once per day is not okay for me and would most likely make me resent sex in a big way.
> 
> ...


I think partners should strive to meet each other needs. Often there is some amount of compromise. Sometimes compromise effectively causes a failure to meet those needs. I think most often it works.

That said, in a long term marriage I think it is an unrealistic expectation to have full blown sex on a daily basis, each and every day year after year. It varies between couples but multuple times a week with other sexual activity in the interim seems reasonable to me. Some folks are fine with once a week as a couple.

The extremes of once per month and once per day seem less than optimal. Just my opinion.

I do suggest that couples not let having sex for too long a time as it can lead to a relationship shut down. Also if men have sex too infrequently, thsi can lead to pre-mature ejaculation and ED which can exacerbate problems which lead to infrequent and less than satisfying sex for both.

This makes many men feel not only not loved but also incapable of making love to their wives. For them the relationship has died.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I wouldn't mind making love every single day. However, I do realize my sex drive is higher than normal, especially for a woman. My peak occurred the summer I was 24. 

My husband experiences ejaculation difficulities if he has too many orgasms in a short period. So we compromised with three or four times a week. It works well because we are also very affectionate and communicative outside of the bedroom. 

Before he proposed, we had discussions which lasted hours on different issues such as sex, in-laws, finances, childfreedom and goals. We both wanted to be sure that we were on the same page for things that could end a marriage. My husband and I both wanted a marriage with copious hugs, kisses, sex, laughter and communication.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I think partners should strive to meet each other needs. Often there is some amount of compromise. Sometimes compromise effectively causes a failure to meet those needs. I think most often it works.
> 
> That said, in a long term marriage I think it is an unrealistic expectation to have full blown sex on a daily basis, each and every day year after year. * It varies between couples but multuple times a week with other sexual activity in the interim seems reasonable to me. Some folks are fine with once a week as a couple.*
> 
> ...


Very good points, but I always wonder what *other sexual activity * means?

Of course Bill Clinton will say a BJ is not sexual activities (relations)....... I think if you are talking that then again we are up to 1X/day.......


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Very good points, but I always wonder what *other sexual activity * means?
> 
> Of course Bill Clinton will say a BJ is not sexual activities (relations)....... I think if you are talking that then again we are up to 1X/day.......


I am talking about full blown intercourse with all the trimmings as being sex.

I am then adding to that anything short of that. BJs, HJs ... whatever.

There is a fundamental difference between having full blown sexual intercourse multiple times per week with other sexual activity in between as opposed to having intercourse daily.

Talking about politicians is moving the thread into an infidelity and low character discussion.

Go have some sex.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey now! BJ/HJ aren't the only "other sexual activity". I like a random orgasm now and then too


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I am talking about full blown intercourse with all the trimmings as being sex.
> 
> I am then adding to that anything short of that. BJs, HJs ... whatever.
> 
> ...


I am no prude, trust me, but if you are saying the other activities are anything that results in an orgasm for one party (BJ/HJ/Oral......), then yes you are having sex....... Kissing, hugging, rubbing up on the couch and in bed do not......

Go masturbate if you need it that bad those other days......


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Hey now! BJ/HJ aren't the only "other sexual activity". I like a random orgasm now and then too


This fell into the whatever. LOL.

But hey, you are right. Frankly I am usually more interested in pleasing my wife orally than receiving. 

The only problem with this is that she always then wants me inside of her. You do what you gotta do.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> This fell into the whatever. LOL.
> 
> But hey, you are right. Frankly I am usually more interested in pleasing my wife orally than receiving.
> 
> The only problem with this is that she always then wants me inside of her. You do what you gotta do.


I don't care what the rest of you think, but "whatever" is totally HOT! 

I agree Entropy with your whole line of argument here about broadening sex and using more variety to keep things going between a couple when intercourse isn't an option.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I am no prude, trust me, but if you are saying the other activities are anything that results in an orgasm for one party (BJ/HJ/Oral......), then yes you are having sex....... Kissing, hugging, rubbing up on the couch and in bed do not......
> 
> Go masturbate if you need it that bad those other days......


Wow you really like that masturbation. Why in the world do you want folks to go solo all the time? That would make them high frequency wankers IMO. I never said that masturbation was not an occasional option. But if it is a staple that is just sad.

I am for lots of sexual activity between spouses. Some women have suggested that they do not want to give up thier body at a high freqency. Hence my comments.

But indeed while you can define sex all you wish in anyway you want there is a difference between penettation and no penetration during a sexual encounter.

Again though you just like rolling around in nuance. Go for it. Sorry dude some of us enjoy sexual activity with our spouses and wish to have this often.

Maybe I will go back to your other thread where you argue for more sex and just tell you the answer is to just jerk yourself off. I bet you would argue in that thread that sex is important to you. LOL.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I am no prude, trust me, but if you are saying the other activities are anything that results in an orgasm for one party (BJ/HJ/Oral......), then yes you are having sex....... Kissing, hugging, rubbing up on the couch and in bed do not......
> 
> Go masturbate if you need it that bad those other days......


As long as I can tell my wife to go converse and spend time with the wall on those days, rather than talking with her very able and attentive husband, I'd be okay with that I suppose.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, I, for one, didn't get married so I could masturbate every day :rofl:

OMG! hahaha no way. Thankfully my husband doesn't tell me to go masturbate. Holy crap.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Wow you really like that masturbation. Why in the world do you want folks to go solo all the time? That would made them high frequency wankers IMO. I never said that masturbation was not an occasional option. But if it is a staple that is just sad.
> 
> I am for lots of sexual activity between spouses. Some women have suggested that they do not want to give up thier body at a high freqency. Hence my comments.
> 
> ...


How often you miss the nuance and point. I never said I liked masturbation (not that I don't like it either). What I said is for those who just need it so bad and the release is necessary, take care of it yourself on those off days and a BJ/HJ or whatever does not have to be on the agenda.

I'd say some people would feel used.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Well, I, for one, didn't get married so I could masturbate every day :rofl:
> 
> OMG! hahaha no way. Thankfully my husband doesn't tell me to go masturbate. Holy crap.


You're lucky... unfortunately not all of us are 

Oh and I had all these lofty ideas that I'd have my sexual drive satisfied in marriage too, unfortunately I learned on night one of the honeymoon that wasn't what was in the cards.

So for me often times masturbation is all I get left with. I'm so sick of it that sometimes I just feel my heart drop when I have to go solo yet again.

While my wife does love me, she finds that doing anything sexual every day is just way way more than she wants to deal with. At times she does, but overall yeah she has asked me point blank to take care of it myself that she'd rather I just leaver her alone about it on certain days (which works out to the majority of the days).


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> My husband and I compromised 2-3 times per week and I am okay with that compromise. Sometimes we will have it only 2 times and sometimes we will splurge and have it 4 times. I am very happy with our love life and find it incredibly sad to read of partners being left in the cold for months and sometimes years...


May I ask how did you came to the comrpomise? are you both happy with that? are you the LD? and if so, do you just go along just to make him happy? the reason I ask is my wife and I are talking about this and I'm not just looking for a compromise I want her to want me, frequency is not the issue (although 3-4week would be great) but if I knew, really knew she desired me I seriously would be cool with 1-2...To me my marriage could surive without the gettin jiggy with it part of sex, but not without makin love....


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> How often you miss the nuance and point. I never said I liked masturbation (not that I don't like it either). What I said is for those who just need it so bad and the release is necessary, take care of it yourself on those off days and a BJ/HJ or whatever does not have to be on the agenda.
> 
> I'd say some people would feel used.


I miss much less than you wish to perceive. You just like to debate for its own sake. I prefer having sex with my wife frankly.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> You're lucky... unfortunately not all of us are
> 
> Oh and I had all these lofty ideas that I'd have my sexual drive satisfied in marriage too, unfortunately I learned on night one of the honeymoon that wasn't what was in the cards.
> 
> ...


But you waited until marriage, if I'm correct?

yea. I did that whole "waiting" thing with my daughter's father and he was HORRIBLE in bed. I hated sex for a while after that.

With Hubs, I was quite frank of what I wouldn't live without. Thankfully, he felt the same way. Yay for hookin up with another HDer!!


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> I agree that her attitude is selfish and her actions are not. I've written that before in this thread. However, this is not just a case of her thinking the selfish thoughts that we all have. Personally, I wouldn't mind having a harem of girls devoted to pleasing me sexually. Of course, I recognise that desire as being unreasonable and selfish. Kind of like wouldn't it be nice if I could fly, or read minds. Therefore, I wouldn't waste any time going on an Internet forum, declaring my belief that I am entitled to a harem, and asking for feedback. The fact that the poster in the other thread started it in the first place is proof that she's pretty selfish.
> 
> 
> I have never denied the fact that men and women both suffer from divorce. I have only stated the fact that selfish women who neglect their husbands may be faced with the consequences of divorce. You were the one who stated that, since men also suffer in divorce, threats of divorce were empty. There are millions of divorced women in this country who will strongly disagree. The fact is that, for many men, the consequences of divorce are preferable to the consequences of staying married to an unreasonably selfish wife.
> ...


She said it didn't feel good. How can you compare that to your desire for a harem of women that you would desire? Your example is fantasy, hers is authentic and real for her.

If you expect her to behave differently against her thoughts & feelings, why is it you don't expect the same from men?

I don't have time to try and find Disney wannabee's. Are they comparable to Playboy Bunny wannabee's?

Do you really think that out of the million of divorced women you speak of, none chose to divorce their husbands? 

For the record, I said what you were speaking of was not a threat to me nor is it ever a motivator for my behavior in my relationship. So I was speaking directly about my perspective, not the united front of women. Since us womenfolk generally can't agree on anything. 

My husband would also never say that to me. Maybe because he knows it holds no bearing but I like to think it's because he's that great of a guy. I truly believe he would support his children and stay in their lives no matter what.

So, anyway, my thoughts are that when a woman is connected to her husband and the husband is not a douche, sex does come more naturally...LD or HD. I am absolutely LD myself but my husband and I average 3-4x's a week and it's not uncomfortable or a chore. I don't always cum but it always feels good.

Another thing my husband would never say to me is that it was my wifely duty to have sex with him. I can't even imagine it. It's comical to me.

In your last paragraph you said that you think it's wrong for a woman to force a man into a sexless marriage even though the woman you speak of puts out far more than that. She's wrong and selfish in your mind just for having thoughts. Boy oh boy. 

Even though I might agree with you that 12x's a year is not a healthy marriage for either man or woman, what I find so strange is that you don't find fault with a man forcing a woman into an over sex'd marriage. 

Oh but who defines over sex'd right? Who says 12x's a year is sexless either? Marriage counselors? Men? Women who feel it's their duty to sex up their husbands? L/D or H/D? Sheesh.

How do we come to these conclusions? A relationship is between two people. They either get it right together or they don't. Balance. When a woman vocalizes that sex makes her feel bad but she's doing it out of obligation and wonders why. It needs to be addressed by her partner. Telling her to buck up and put out is selfish.


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

Trenton said:


> If you expect her to behave differently against her thoughts & feelings, why is it you don't expect the same from men?
> 
> *I have been on both sides of this coin. While in a marriage, it is improtant that both sides comprmise, should it be ok that someone forsakes all others under the impression that things wont change just to be forsaken themselves?*
> 
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trenton said:


> She said it didn't feel good. How can you compare that to your desire for a harem of women that you would desire? Your example is fantasy, hers is authentic and real for her.


They're both selfish and unreasonable. That's the comparison. It doesn't much matter the motivation behind the selfishness. It's all pretty much the same anyway. Either we want more of what feels good, or we want less of what doesn't feel good. Whether we're talking about harems, or denying husbands sex, or robbing banks, or taking candy from babies, it's selfish motivations that is the topic.



Trenton said:


> If you expect her to behave differently against her thoughts & feelings, why is it you don't expect the same from men?


Where have I said I don't? To the contrary. I expect BOTH spouses in a marriage to compromise. You seem to expect the husbands to serve their wives and the wives to accept their husbands' service. That is selfish.



Trenton said:


> I don't have time to try and find Disney wannabee's. Are they comparable to Playboy Bunny wannabee's?


Nope. The Bunny wannabees probably like sex.



Trenton said:


> Do you really think that out of the million of divorced women you speak of, none chose to divorce their husbands?


No. I never said that.



Trenton said:


> For the record, I said what you were speaking of was not a threat to me nor is it ever a motivator for my behavior in my relationship. So I was speaking directly about my perspective, not the united front of women. Since us womenfolk generally can't agree on anything.


Thanks for clearing that up. It appeared you were arguing that the threat of divorce between men and selfish women, in general, was empty. Given the numbers of divorces in this country, that's obviously an erroneous conclusion.

If you believe that your husband would never divorce you, no matter how poorly you treated him, you may be right. Not knowing your husband, I have no way of knowing. Then again, you may be wrong.



Trenton said:


> Another thing my husband would never say to me is that it was my wifely duty to have sex with him. I can't even imagine it. It's comical to me.


You say you're LD, yet have sex 3-4x per week. It seems to me that you understand that it's your duty to engage in sex with your husband. If you disagree, try a little experiment. Stop having sex with your husband for three months. See if he has anything to say about it. If not, try to notice any changes in his behavior. If sex is truly as superfluous to a marriage as you claim, it should be no problem.



Trenton said:


> In your last paragraph you said that you think it's wrong for a woman to force a man into a sexless marriage even though the woman you speak of puts out far more than that. She's wrong and selfish in your mind just for having thoughts. Boy oh boy.


Let's put it another way. A mother of two young children, who is in your social circle, feeds her kids three times a day. When she sees you, she tells you how great her kids are, but says that she doesn't think she should be required to feed them more than once a week. She says she would happily feed them once a week. But, the multiple times per day is just causing her to resent her kids. She asks for your advice on whether she would be justified in feeding her kids only once a week. You obviously tell her that she should continue feeding her kids three times per day because that's what they need and good mothers meet their children's needs.

Her actions, of feeding her kids three times per day, are fine. Her attitude, of wanting to feed them once a week, is not. Would you call her a selfish mother? Or would you defend her and say that's she's just being true to her thoughts and feelings?



Trenton said:


> Even though I might agree with you that 12x's a year is not a healthy marriage for either man or woman, what I find so strange is that you don't find fault with a man forcing a woman into an over sex'd marriage.


Because that's not the issue here. I would. I would also find fault with a man who beats his wife. Should we bring up all the possible sins that a man could commit in his marriage so that we can balance out the criticism of a selfish wife? Why?



Trenton said:


> Oh but who defines over sex'd right? Who says 12x's a year is sexless either? Marriage counselors? Men? Women who feel it's their duty to sex up their husbands? L/D or H/D? Sheesh.


Really. I mean, who says we should have to feed our kids three times a day? The grocery stores? Food companies? Men? Sheesh.

Seriously. Even if you don't believe the mental health professionals, of both sexes, who have a standard for defining sexless marraiges, just look through this board for numerous examples of men whose wives give them monthly (at best) "let's get this over with" sex. These men are beaten down and crushed by the rejection. It seems quite cruel to dismiss them by saying that a monthly standard is probably just some conspiracy by the patriarchy to keep wives in line.



Trenton said:


> How do we come to these conclusions? A relationship is between two people. They either get it right together or they don't. Balance. When a woman vocalizes that sex makes her feel bad but she's doing it out of obligation and wonders why. It needs to be addressed by her partner. Telling her to buck up and put out is selfish.


To the contrary. Since I don't know this woman, it is of little or no consequence to me whether she has a happy marriage or an unhappy marriage. And if her husband would be happy in a sexless marriage, then I say go for it. However, the poster stated that her husband wants frequent sex. So it's unlikely he would be happy in a sexless marriage. Given that the poster's actions already reflect a compromise to have sex with her husband a few times a week, it seems she knows that this is the reasonable course of action. So she has two choices. She could adjust her attitude so that she doesn't resent making reasonable compromises in her marriage. Or, she could change her actions to match her unreasonable and selfish attitude. It's clear that the first choice will result in a happier marriage than the second. I fail to see how trying to engender compromise in a marriage of which I am not a part, to make both spouses happier, is a selfish act. It seems more selfish to advocate for the destruction of the marriage in the name of girl power.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PHT,
I agree with you. Actually my views on this while not popular are practical.

I am working on a sexual 10 commandments. Maybe 5 and 5. Five for the high desire, and 5 for the low desire.

My biggest issue with high drive spouses, is that they do, and allow to be done to them, crazy things that destroy the marriage. 
For example: having sex with a spouse who will not kiss them
Having sex with a partner who expressly conveys disdain (or worse) for them, just before they start. Or during the act. 
Allowing their partner to tease them a bit - for confirmation they still want "it", and then shut them down.

Maybe I will call this trading self respect for sex, trading self esteem for the chance at sex.
Not enforcing their boundaries for fear of eliminating the chance of sex



PHTlump said:


> They're both selfish and unreasonable. That's the comparison. It doesn't much matter the motivation behind the selfishness. It's all pretty much the same anyway. Either we want more of what feels good, or we want less of what doesn't feel good. Whether we're talking about harems, or denying husbands sex, or robbing banks, or taking candy from babies, it's selfish motivations that is the topic.
> 
> 
> Where have I said I don't? To the contrary. I expect BOTH spouses in a marriage to compromise. You seem to expect the husbands to serve their wives and the wives to accept their husbands' service. That is selfish.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

that_girl said:


> But you waited until marriage, if I'm correct?
> 
> yea. I did that whole "waiting" thing with my daughter's father and he was HORRIBLE in bed. I hated sex for a while after that.
> 
> With Hubs, I was quite frank of what I wouldn't live without. Thankfully, he felt the same way. Yay for hookin up with another HDer!!


Yeah we waited until married. Ironic that the time I didn't wait (with my GF in college) we ended up splitting but had no sexual issues, my wife and I had sex issues on day 1 of the honeymoon.

Still if I had attempted to have sex with my wife, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have stayed together (given that it took nearly a year to successfully have sex once). I wouldn't have had my 4 lovely children, and my wife would have undoubtedly felt deeply hurt having been rejected due to something that was beyond her control (extremely painful sex, preventing even penetration).

My wife and I do love each other, so in the end I can't really complain. My wife is a wonderful mother and a great wife... she's also the best friend I've ever had (and I've had some great ones over the years). So in the end I just take the bad with the good because she's worth it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Has she seen a doctor for her issue? It's a real condition...but you probably know that.

Every time I read this thread, I wanna do something dirty to Hubs and he's at work!  UGH!


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> They're both selfish and unreasonable. That's the comparison. It doesn't much matter the motivation behind the selfishness. It's all pretty much the same anyway. Either we want more of what feels good, or we want less of what doesn't feel good. Whether we're talking about harems, or denying husbands sex, or robbing banks, or taking candy from babies, it's selfish motivations that is the topic.
> 
> 
> Where have I said I don't? To the contrary. I expect BOTH spouses in a marriage to compromise. You seem to expect the husbands to serve their wives and the wives to accept their husbands' service. That is selfish.
> ...


Whether something happens in reality or is complete fantasy doesn't matter?

We basically agree, that's the lame thing, the only difference is that I come into the conversation with a different perspective and it feels like because of that we can't agree on anything truly.

I think not having sex would change my husband. This intrigues, confuses and interests me but not sure what to do with it. 

As to whether my husband would ever divorce me? Anything is possible. I don't think it will ever be because of lack of sex. My experience sort of predisposes me to a need for sex, even if it is not for sexual gratification every time. Don't know, maybe this disqualifies me as LD. 

Honestly, if my husband became less interested in sex, that would be a HUGE problem for me. I'd most likely go to great lengths to try and change it and feel sad and rejected about it. I think I would even question myself and wonder if I wasn't attractive enough or if he was having an affair.

If he had a good reason (health, stress, circumstance) then I think I'd be very understanding.

This is all imaginary. Like I said, I haven't been there and like you, I don't believe anyone should feel obligated to stay in a marriage where their needs aren't being met. A man who has jumped through hoops and still has a wife that won't communicate or have sex, is not someone I'd ever place blame on. Just as I would not place blame on a woman who is LD and struggling openly & honestly about it. I'd try to figure out why. Happiness for both is what we're all after, right? 

BTW you missed the irony to my playboy bunny wannabe statement. I was expressing how those women are all dolled up and place such great importance on how men view them as sex objects, that their reason for sex is not ideal. I can actually relate to it on some level as being desirous is important to me. Still, you don't care about the reasons because bottom line is...they would like sex and that's what is most important. 

This is where I become conflicted. In my partner, I want to be more even while being desirous and that is the key. I am and and that is also why I stay. It's a wonderful thing to be truly seen by another and still be accepted. And perhaps that is what is missing for women or men who are in unhappy relationships and struggling with it. They feel invisible or unaccepted-both horrible, terrible feelings.

Do you think it is worse to be HD or LD and have you ever been LD? Just curious.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Trenton said:


> I agree with TG in that your wife should have that checked out fully by as many physicians/psychologists as it takes. For the sake of both of you. You sound like an outstanding man. One of which I'd be rooting for big time. Your wife sounds just as amazing. It would be beautiful for the both of you to get on the same page sexually and make love.


If she is at all like my ex, there is absolutely no impetus on her part to 'address' the issue. And each time I brought up her seeing someone about vulvodynia or dyspareunia, she felt pressured and even offended that I was making it all about sex. And there becomes an even deeper psychological interplay. In a good deal of the research I did ... even if the woman addresses the painful sex issue ... the brain holds onto the pain association. In other words, she may be physically fine, but associates both the act, and her partner with pain nonetheless.

It's utterly friggin' tragic.

But ... swap out the partner ... and voila.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Has she seen a doctor for her issue? It's a real condition...but you probably know that.


Fortunately it only flares up a few times a year now. The first two children almost eliminated the problem.

Yes she's been checked out by two doctors, they haven't found anything with that or other issues. She's supposedly just fine.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Trenton said:


> Do you think you're LD? I'm curious as to how you satisfy your desire for sex? Lots of masturbation? I don't mean to be intrusive so ignore it if it's too much so.
> 
> I agree with TG in that your wife should have that checked out fully by as many physicians/psychologists as it takes. For the sake of both of you. You sound like an outstanding man. One of which I'd be rooting for big time. Your wife sounds just as amazing. It would be beautiful for the both of you to get on the same page sexually and make love.


I'm the HD one, she's LD.

Yes masturbation is how I hold off until she's ready willing and able again. Part of me is pretty sick of masturbation but not really a lot of choices.

Thanks for the kind words, it's been two steps forward and one step back the past couple of months... baby steps are very encouraging for both of us. 

My wife really is an amazing woman. She lights up a room with her smile and the joy within her. I'm very blessed to have her, she really is my better half.

Maybe it's time for a 3rd doctor's opinion on the problem. Do some gynecologists specialize in sexual issues? Would it be worthwhile to call doctors in the area to see if they might be better suited to diagnose something that's perhaps not obvious to the average gynecologist?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> Maybe it's time for a 3rd doctor's opinion on the problem. Do some gynecologists specialize in sexual issues? Would it be worthwhile to call doctors in the area to see if they might be better suited to diagnose something that's perhaps not obvious to the average gynecologist?


If you are looking for some sort of sub-specialist, try a university hospital / medical center.

ETA: Even if it is not a matter of a sub-specialist, it seems that university hospitals, focusing on teaching and research, would be the most up-to-date on current developments in the field.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Painful intercourse (dyspareunia)


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm obsessed about sex. My drive is in overdrive. This past week has been the longest we've gone without. We both really want to, but the timing is not very good. My hubby has been working extra hours trying to get a promotion. Then he exercises, eats, showers and the night is over after work. He's feeling the effects too. Hopefully we'll have some mind blowing sex this weekend when he returns home from taking the kids to swim lessons. I've been trying my best to be patient. I might attack him when he walks through that door! I seriously would love it 2-3 times a day, but once a day is what normally happens. I will remain patient, although its taking everything I have to keep cool. 

For some reason my youngest child is going through a needy phase where she needs a little more attention from the both of us. The poor girl.

We are suppose to have a date tonight, but I'd rather stay home alone with him in the bedroom. Plus it's free.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

DTO said:


> If you are looking for some sort of sub-specialist, try a university hospital / medical center.
> 
> ETA: Even if it is not a matter of a sub-specialist, it seems that university hospitals, focusing on teaching and research, would be the most up-to-date on current developments in the field.


Good idea, we happen to live in an area with a couple of advanced university hospitals. We'll talk about what it takes to get her covered by our insurance to see one.

For totally unrelated problems our eldest son is having with dizziness, we took him to one of the university hospitals but they seem to make it kind of hard to qualify to see one under coverage. Probably because it's expensive, but sometimes it's what has to be done.

My wife is kind of shy about talking to doctors about anything that's bothering her. So the first time I wasn't convinced she asked enough questions or stated the depth of the problem well enough (she tends to downplay things and try and sweep them under the rug).

The second time she didn't want me to come, so we wrote up a list of questions... since I wasn't there I don't know if she got through all the questions or if she was just too quick to agree with the doctor's that everything's fine. That time they tried to downplay it as: oh your a mother and stressed probably not getting enough lubrication. Thing is we have lubed the living daylights out of her and she can still get pain even after short duration and gentle sex (this has happened at least twice with all the extra lube added).

She still doesn't want me to go a third time, she's pretty insistent against it (which is unusual for her). Normally she's quite affable.

Seems like I'm ninjaing the thread, but perhaps it was done anyway.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brown,
Many of your threads reflect the notion that your wife doesn't see your sex life as a "mutual" thing.

I love my wife and as you can tell from my threads I respect her privacy when asked. AND she has this condition. That said I would not be ok being uninvited to a checkup if I wanted to go. This is impacting you alot more than it is her. 

You often talk about sex and intercourse without any differentiation. 

It seems your wife finds this whole topic tiresome and wishes you would simply accept it.

While our sex life excludes intercourse (because it is painful to her) it is very nice and keeps our bond strong.



UOTE=Browncoat;694385]Good idea, we happen to live in an area with a couple of advanced university hospitals. We'll talk about what it takes to get her covered by our insurance to see one.

For totally unrelated problems our eldest son is having with dizziness, we took him to one of the university hospitals but they seem to make it kind of hard to qualify to see one under coverage. Probably because it's expensive, but sometimes it's what has to be done.

My wife is kind of shy about talking to doctors about anything that's bothering her. So the first time I wasn't convinced she asked enough questions or stated the depth of the problem well enough (she tends to downplay things and try and sweep them under the rug).

The second time she didn't want me to come, so we wrote up a list of questions... since I wasn't there I don't know if she got through all the questions or if she was just too quick to agree with the doctor's that everything's fine. That time they tried to downplay it as: oh your a mother and stressed probably not getting enough lubrication. Thing is we have lubed the living daylights out of her and she can still get pain even after short duration and gentle sex (this has happened at least twice with all the extra lube added).

She still doesn't want me to go a third time, she's pretty insistent against it (which is unusual for her). Normally she's quite affable.

Seems like I'm ninjaing the thread, but perhaps it was done anyway.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I am obsessed with sex. Think how boring life would be without it. No intense passion. No flirting. No fashion industry. No movie or music industry. No bonding mechanism for two very different people in a marriage. Vive la difference!


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Mem, I asked my wife to read over your post... primarily because I wanted to make sure I answered for the both of us, not just from my perspective.



MEM11363 said:


> Brown,
> Many of your threads reflect the notion that your wife doesn't see your sex life as a "mutual" thing.


Yes and no was how my wife answered.

No in the sense that she honestly doesn't want sex nearly as often as we have it, and no she isn't always into it at the start of foreplay most of the time.

Yes in that she does enjoy it for the most part, and she is trying to let herself slow down and realize that all the things rushing around in her head can wait. That she can, though it is hard work for her, to allow herself to put me and my needs first for a while.

My wife, like most women, constantly has ideas bouncing around in her head: Long term plans for the future, concerns for our children, dates for events coming up soon and what's required for them, any chores that need doing around the house, etc.

When she wants to relax, she wants more than anything to read (primarily books, magazines, and newspapers). She also likes to watch movies or tv shows with me on netflix as well, but that's something she'll do if only to spend more time talking to one another (we pause stuff a lot, we're kind of terrible that way). When she's reading or watching shows with me, we talk about life, politics, religion, etc. Really just anything that comes to mind, and we talk a lot which is wonderful.

The last thing she generally thinks of, or really wants to do is have sex. Not that she sees it as a bad thing, it's just that all those things I listed above... all of them are far more interesting to her, excepting a few times a year.

She has sex with me more often because she knows I want it and need it. She has to actively work to think about sex, or even to see herself as sexy or a sexual being. She's always been this way, and my guess (this is just me talking now) is that it comes from her family. Her mother has always been non-sexual, never discussed sex, never dressed up excepting the bare minimum to go somewhere fancy (otherwise as plain vanilla as possible), etc. Her mother's mother was the same way apparently.

So one of the things we've been trying to do is an exercise where she starts thinking about being sexy and about sex about 30 minutes before a planned window of time to have sex. That has helped... but the point is that it's work for her. It's a concentrated effort.



MEM11363 said:


> I love my wife and as you can tell from my threads I respect her privacy when asked. AND she has this condition. That said I would not be ok being uninvited to a checkup if I wanted to go. This is impacting you alot more than it is her.


Yes I was talking to her about this very thing last night, when we discussed her possibly going back for a 3rd evaluation (btw she agrees with my assessment of her first two evaluations). This is something I'm still pushing for, and she's still resisting. Getting the reasons out is also fun, because she doesn't always know why (as is the case here). This is pretty typical though, I normally have to gently/lovingly get her to understand her own feelings and express them to me. It's a little verbal truth dance we do. 



MEM11363 said:


> You often talk about sex and intercourse without any differentiation.
> 
> It seems your wife finds this whole topic tiresome and wishes you would simply accept it.
> 
> While our sex life excludes intercourse (because it is painful to her) it is very nice and keeps our bond strong.


For my wife, taking time to have any type of sex is just as low on her list of priorities. We sometimes do have sex w/o intercourse, but the norm by far and away sex is intercourse for us. This is primarily because if she's going to spend the time she'd rather do what keeps me the happiest for the longest so that she can postpone the next sexual encounter. Like I said, she'd rather be doing just about anything else other than having sex (of any kind).


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

If people weren't obsessed with sex there would be no people at all, "I fvck therefore I am".


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> Can I write a song about being obsessed with sex?
> 
> Wonder how many people have me on *ignore* lmfao


Yes, please do. We'd love it, and your kids can have a new thing to groan about. Remind them that they would not be here without sex, just to see the whites of their eyes roll.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> Can I write a song about being obsessed with sex?
> 
> Wonder how many people have me on *ignore* lmfao


Now why can't we clone more women like you? The world would be less stressed and there would be legions of smiling Bobs.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

sex did somebody say sex!!!!!!!


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

chaos said:


> Now why can't we clone more women like you? The world would be less stressed and there would be legions of smiling Bobs.


That's funny, Chaos, but lordy, did I ever hate those Extenz commercials. I will never understand why guys think a big c*ck will get them more sex. I prefer a big heart. Haven't seen any commercial products for that.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

*Hey Everybody We're All Gonna Get Laid*


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

My (sex) wife (sex) says (sex) I (sex) think (sex) about (sex) sex (sex) too (sex) much (sex).


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I can't even _say_ "sex" to my oldest without getting a "MOOOOOOOOOM! ENOUGH!!!" :rofl:


That's funny considering that it was mom and dad being naughty that brought them into the world.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

chaos said:


> That's funny considering that it was mom and dad being naughty that brought them into the world.


lol, kids don't like thinking about their parents having sex. I think that thought spans all generations.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

think about the people who like to make home vids... after they die their kids finding it and being scared the rest of their life.

or maybe they would be impressed!

hey look at dad shag mom. images I'd rather not see.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Nothin' naughty about sex 

It's just what people do.

I can't wait to have sex tonight. I want to have rough, angry sex  :rofl:


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> hey look at dad shag mom.


Ohh, Austin Powers flashback. Not good... at all.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

is ther some hidden meaning in torture a small rodent?

or are you related to jeffery Dahmer?


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> Can I write a song about being obsessed with sex?
> 
> Wonder how many people have me on *ignore* lmfao


Killer Mike- A.D.I.D.A.S. - YouTube :rofl::rofl:

Last night my husband jumped me after putting away the groceries. He said "Spread out the blanket on the rug. We're havin' us a sex party in the living room!" :smthumbup:

Unfortunately, the floor was too hard on his knees and my back. After bending me over the back of the couch, we finished in the bedroom. Good times! My husband growled in my ear afterwards, "I am so lucky to be married to a lady pervert!" :rofl::rofl: Long live lady leches!!


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I've come to the realization that so many people here are plain obsessed about it. The amount of discussion and posts where people think anything less then daily sex is sexless amazes me.
> 
> A poor women, who needs professional help to at least see where things stand and where her issues lie because she wants and enjoys sex 1X/mth and yet is doing it *20X's/mth* as a good wife is met with derision. I read how terrible a person she is and her poor spouse........
> 
> ...



Yep I'm obsessed with sex. In my marriage I AM the HD spouse and my husband is the LD spouse. It sucks not having your needs met. 

I NEED MORE SEX. 

AAAWWWW:2gunsfiring_v1:WWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whEN will this end? I need my needs met 
Is that so much to ask???

And no I dont need it every day. BUt every other day would be more than nice *sigh*

And until my needs are met you'll be seeing a lot more of my nerd rage
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:2gunsfiring_v1:AAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wish I could help you with that.

But.....I can't.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> That's funny, Chaos, but lordy, did I ever hate those Extenz commercials. I will never understand why guys think a big c*ck will get them more sex. I prefer a big heart. Haven't seen any commercial products for that.


Each person is different. There are a some women who love well endowed guys and some women who don't. I guess some guys want to hedge their bets and are of the mindset that it is better to have a little extra than to come up short (pun intended). I'm happy with my "little friend"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And I'm happy with my "big friend"


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

That's all that matters.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> Ok, always late to the party, but Friday, conversation went like this with my 11 year old son:
> 
> My teacher says we can bring deodorant to class because we get smelly at recess because of our bodies changing.
> 
> ...


 
Funny thing ... when I started having "those talks" with my daughters, there was never any problem. They were genuinely curious, asked questions ... never a problem. 

My son is more than 10 years younger than his next sibling, so maybe I was a bit out of practice ... when I first started having "those talks" with him, I promise, all the color drained out of his face. I tried to be very clear, so we even looked at bing images and found a tasteful diagram of a vulva so I could be sure he understood what I was talking about. After a few minutes, he asked, "Dad, can we stop this now." 

"Why?" I asked. 

"It's all just so ... shocking!"

Yeah ... sometimes, you have to really try hard to not laugh.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

I really do worry about it actually.... I had absolutely NO parental guidance in this area.... Looked at some porn before I entered elementary school with some friends. Caught mom giving dad a BJ around the same time. At elementary school age, was shown where dad kept a stack of porn mags in his shop, and told it was ok to be curious about peoples bodies. Parents who never censored what they watched or said around me.....

Then, in high school, dad walks into my room one day with a stack of porn mags and a box of condoms and says that if I have any questions, or need more condoms, let him know....


Ok..... At least I know what I'm NOT going to do! 


Gah! My only solstice sometimes is thinking "every other parent on the face of the earth from the beginning of creation has made it through..... You can too"


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

chaos said:


> Each person is different. There are a some women who love well endowed guys and some women who don't. I guess some guys want to hedge their bets and are of the mindset that it is better to have a little extra than to come up short (pun intended). I'm happy with my "little friend"


Yes, I know that is true. I am happy that my husband does not make me feel inadequate for not looking like Dolly Parton, and I am happy that he is not Ron Jeremy.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Well, somehow we all survive the birds and the bees.
> 
> They're a lot more fun than the ticks and the fleas.


Chiggers ... you forgot chiggers ... Gosh! I'm glad we don't have chiggers where I live now!!!


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Exactly why I _don't_ camp.


Same here. My idea of camping is a condo with a hot tub.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Did someone say she wants a condom with a hot rub?


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Well, somehow we all survive the birds and the bees.
> 
> They're a lot more fun than the ticks and the fleas.


Isn't there a country song about checking for ticks?


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

The only I know well is the red solo cup song!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Same here. My idea of camping is a condo with a hot tub.


:iagree: Me too. I don't do tents.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

humanbecoming said:


> Isn't there a country song about checking for ticks?


Yep - it's by Brad Paisley. I love Brad Paisley.

"I'd sure like to check you for ticks"

Red Solo Cup is the most awesome song EVER. 

All you camping wussies. Come to Alberta where we camp all winter long. In tents.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

FirstYearDown said:


> :iagree: Me too. I don't do tents.


I said that to Carol also but she really wanted to camp. So I got all alpha-ey and laid down the law (to my frugal wife). 

"OK, I'll go camping. But before we do, me and my credit card are going down to the REI store and we're going to buy every single piece of equipment that will make it civilized."

I have to admit, I was actually quite surprised at how civilized it can be with the right equipment. It helps a lot that Carol heard me loud and clear so when we woke up the first morning she got fresh ground coffee brewing and actually baked some fresh crumb cakes right there on the spot. It was really hard to see it as roughing it *laughs*.


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