# 7 year itch has bitten me twice



## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Two relationships. 7 years each. Both wives cheated on me. Talk about a hit to a guys ego!

I separated from my wife 7 months ago and have just recently found out about her EA with a guy she talked to on an online forum. Prior to last week she had me believe her only questionable contact was with a guy she knew in high school when they spoke a couple of times on the phone and exchanged emails etc. She agreed she hid it from me but claims everything was innocent. Well apparently it was with that guy at least. I managed to deceive her into spilling her guts, well bit by bit anyway as I told her I illegally obtained her phone records for the last 3 months we were together. So she came clean and told me she had been talking to this other guy since Feb last year and feelings for him were very strong at the time.

Now it appears that since we separated, she wanted the affair to turn physical but he didn't. He knows where she lives, home phone, Facebook etc. but all she knows is his mobile number and email. He refused to give her home phone, address or friend her on Facebook, she knows he works but doesn't know where. She claims he is just a really shy introverted guy and is scared of meeting her in person (what a weirdo!) but I don't know how much to believe anyway since I have been told a bunch of lies just to get this far. Sounds like a phony to me.

Anyway, she now realizes the terrible mistake she made by falling for this guy and wants me and her family back. I am seeing another woman at the moment and not really ready to give her up, but if I knew with certainty she felt true remorse for the pain she caused me and our son, and would make it her life's mission to rebuild our relationship, I might contemplate giving her another chance. I told her the first step is to write a no contact to the OM and I showed her a couple of examples that acknowledge the wrong doing to the spouse, the selfishness and the desire to work on the marriage with zero contact from him. She showed me the letter she had come up with yesterday and I just threw it back at her and said I was insulted. Basically she said how she was sick of the way he treated her and she deserves better than what he has to offer. No mention of BS or the pain their selfish relationship caused to others. I told her the letter showed a complete lack of respect for me. She refuses to give me any of his details. She knows I can't possibly go flatten him because she doesn't even know how to find him. The only reason I can see is because she doesn't want me spoiling it for them in the future. Every time I ask for his contact details she says she just wants to forget about him and move on. As a betrayed spouse, I feel I deserve a hell of a lot better than this. She says I am being too demanding on here and she needs to do things in her own time and her own way. Basically, I told her there is only one way that I am willing to accept and that's the only way she'd ever get a sniff of a second chance with me. Do you think I am being too harsh. I don't think she deserves any time. I don't want her to say her loving goodbyes. Am I being unreasonable in my requests?
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

not unreasonable at all except for the fact that this is AT LEAST her second time in doing this.

i personally wouldnt give her the chance again.

if you really do want to give her a second chance, nothing you are asking for is out of line.
she should also be willing to go 100% transparent on all her on line accounts and her phone.

good luck.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You're doing everything right, except for the harshness. You need to control your temper. Do everything you are doing but without the anger. 

Try the 180.... it will help you control that. Someone here will be able to link you to it. As long as you are exhibiting the anger, it will drive her away. You need to be neutral emotionally when dealing with her. 

The only reason she is seeking reconcilliation with you is because you are dating somebody. Your wife is cake eating. You are correct in that she wants to break up with the OM softly so she can have a chance at him in the future. She needs to write a NC letter that acknowledges the pain she has causesd you.



> Now it appears that since we separated, she wanted the affair to turn physical but he didn't. He knows where she lives, home phone, Facebook etc. but all she knows is his mobile number and email. He refused to give her home phone, address or friend her on Facebook, she knows he works but doesn't know where. She claims he is just a really shy introverted guy and is scared of meeting her in person (what a weirdo!) but I don't know how much to believe anyway since I have been told a bunch of lies just to get this far. Sounds like a phony to me.


Did you confirm this yourself or did she just tell you this? If it's her word only then she is probably lying. Read the other threads on the board. Rarely does affair partners stop at only an emotional affair when they have the opportunity to meet each other in person. It will almost always end up physical. If you and your wife have been separated I would think there is a 50% she has gone to meet with him. I would do what you can to validate this story.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Aquila audax said:


> Two relationships. 7 years each. Both wives cheated on me. Talk about a hit to a guys ego!
> 
> I separated from my wife 7 months ago and have just recently found out about her EA with a guy she talked to on an online forum. Prior to last week she had me believe her only questionable contact was with a guy she knew in high school when they spoke a couple of times on the phone and exchanged emails etc. She agreed she hid it from me but claims everything was innocent. Well apparently it was with that guy at least. I managed to deceive her into spilling her guts, well bit by bit anyway as I told her I illegally obtained her phone records for the last 3 months we were together. So she came clean and told me she had been talking to this other guy since Feb last year and feelings for him were very strong at the time.
> 
> ...


Totally reasonable. She's lucky you'd even consider a second chance and she's p!ssing it away. You don't want to hear (read) she's ending relationship because this guy did this or didn't do that, you want it because she realized the damage and hurt she caused your relationship and she is choosing you. She doesn't get it and it's up to you if you want to wait around for her to get it.
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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> not unreasonable at all except for the fact that this is AT LEAST her second time in doing this.


2 different relationships - this is supposedly her first cheat.
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> 2 different relationships - this is supposedly her first cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> Aquila audax
> 7 year itch has bitten me twice
> Two relationships. 7 years each. Both wives cheated on me. Talk about a hit to a guys ego!
> 
> I separated from my wife 7 months ago and have just recently found out about her EA with a guy she talked to on an online forum. Prior to last week she had me believe her only questionable contact was with a guy she knew in high school when they spoke a couple of times on the phone and exchanged emails etc. She agreed she hid it from me but claims everything was innocent. Well apparently it was with that guy at least. I managed to deceive her into spilling her guts, well bit by bit anyway as I told her I illegally obtained her phone records for the last 3 months we were together. So she came clean and told me she had been talking to this other guy since Feb last year and feelings for him were very strong at the time.


i count what i consider as 2 right here with the second wife.


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## asylumspadez (Jan 17, 2012)

If they both cheated then you either need to change your taste in women or you need to go to IC and talk about any problems that you have that are effecting these relationships (nobody's perfect).

I wouldnt take her back because she doesnt mean it. If she isnt willing to work for it then she doesnt deserve you or your family. Get a divorce and move on.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Aquila audax said:


> He knows where she lives, home phone, Facebook etc. but all she knows is his mobile number and email. He refused to give her home phone, address or friend her on Facebook, she knows he works but doesn't know where.


 I guess that you know that she is lying. She knows the details but does not want to tell you.



Aquila audax said:


> Every time I ask for his contact details she says she just wants to forget about him and move on. As a betrayed spouse, I feel I deserve a hell of a lot better than this. She says I am being too demanding on here and she needs to do things in her own time and her own way.


 Wow talk about lack of remorse. Now she wants to dictate to you taking her back but only on her terms.

You said that she had come clean. She did not. She has told you only part of the truth. She does not sound remorseful and does not sound like she is over him. Her letter to him complains only of the poor way that he has treated her, thus is telling him that he needs to treat her better if he wants her back.

You need to move on and not look back. You also need to look at yourself to find what you need to change in the next relationship.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Like it or not, you are now a cheater yourself and if you demand a NC from your wife with the OM, then you should do likewise with the woman your seeing. It is only fair.

End your relationship with the woman you are dating. You have no business being involved with another woman while still being a married man who is seeking reconciliation with his cheating wife.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> Like it or not, you are now a cheater yourself and if you demand a NC from your wife with the OM, then you should do likewise with the woman your seeing. It is only fair.
> 
> End your relationship with the woman you are dating. You have no business being involved with another woman while still being a married man who is seeking reconciliation with his cheating wife.


:iagree:
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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Her letter wasn't a NC, is was her complaining to him about how he doesn't treated her right. It was her threatening to break up with him, unless he changed.

So that's not her ending the affair, it's her demanding her BF changes.

Sounds like he is likely married and was playing with her. When she wanted to meet up, he realized she would screw up his marriage and family, so he with held contact info.

He will likely find a way down the road to hook up with her for some a$$, but then disappear back into the night.

I suggest you file for divorce on this one - you're still not getting the full truth, and she is still pursuing the affair. I think she's just back at you because she's seriously thinking this one may not pan out and she'll be alone.

You're her backup plan.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He's married, that's why he won't tell her anything personal.

And you shouldn't give her another chance...but...maybe not date until after the divorce? I dunno.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Mot fair to the woman you are seeing if you are making back up plans behind her back


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Not fair to the woman you are seeing if you are making back up plans behind her back


:iagree:

Nobody should be another person's backup relationship just in case their relationship of choice doesn't work out as planned.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Just learn to be alone! Maybe that is your problem, OP. Can't be alone.


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Aquila audax said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't drive and post!


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

morituri said:


> Don't drive and post!


:lol:


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Morituri, I do not consider myself a cheater in any way. I split up from my wife 7 months ago because I was lacking affection. I split up with her first because I didn't want to be a cheater. I have tried to move forward and not look back in every way. I have been honest with the woman i am seeing at the moment, although I haven't disclosed the full details. I am not toying with her feelings and keeping her as a backup. When I told her a couple of days ago, it would have been far easier to just keep it to myself but I am an honest person. She has expressed that it hurts her to see me going through this and will be there to support me.

Since I separated, there has always been this nagging desire to know how it all went wrong. I was always a hard working husband and brought a good income so my wife could be a SAHM. We have a family business with about 30 staff. 1 year ago, we had a project that ran 15 days late and for every day we were being penalized a thousand dollars. I was working literally around the clock trying to minimize the damage. My wife complained that she was lonely and why couldn't I just let the other staff take care of it. I kept telling her that as an employer I needed to lead by example and it wouldn't be fair to expect my staff to work long hours without seeing their families without me doing the same. The OM was there to listen to her when I was out working my butt off. I didn't want to be working long hours. I was going through a hard period myself. I needed my wife to be understanding about the pressure I face at work. It may appear that I'm a workaholic but that's not the case. I work to live not live to work. Apart from this one project I never work more than 10 hour days. It would have been nice to have a wife that was sympathetic to the stress of work. Instead she just complained at being home stuck with the kids. I wish I could have been stuck at home worth the kids. Her life was always so much easier than mine.

As for my taste in women. I guess I am learning. I met my first wife in my teens and had a child when I was 19. I thought it was the right thing to do. Again, she was a SAHM. Before I met her, she had a history with drugs. We split up after she got back into drugs and had an affair with another drug addict. I took custody of my kids and never looked back. Probably, the only thing in common my two wives shared was the SAHM part. They both had too much time up their sleeve and obviously are not honorable people with solid morals. I don't know whether morals are something that can be learned or if some people were born with a good conscious and others not. This third relationship is with a woman who has a career of her own, comes from a family where she is the only one that's separated and she wasn't the one to blame. She is pretty, owns her own home, is a great mother to her children and is very intelligent. There is something missing there though. Obviously, I was nowhere near ready for this relationship and I have told her that I understand at now. It hurts me deeply that I could be so selfish and let her develop feelings for me when I have still not 100% moved on from my wife.

Part of me wants to just leave it all behind and stay by myself with my kids for a couple of years like I did after my first marriage. Part of me wants to try R with my wife. I always wanted my youngest child to be brought up in a happy family environment as seeing my other kids being brought up without a mother killed me. The the other part of me just wants to move on with the new woman. My heart is being torn in all directions at the moment.
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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Oh, I also wanted to ask about boundaries. I know to safeguard myself from further wrongdoing I need to have a firm set of boundaries in place in whatever relationship I'm in. I have ordered the book His Needs, Her Needs but can anybody show me a suitable list of examples.

that_girl, my first thought was that he was married too but she swears otherwise. She is crushed that he wont meet her so I know that it didn't turn physical. She tells me he is so shy and introverted. Does this mean that I could have been a little too alpha for her. I always thought I was a pretty good combination.
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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Spend some money - hire a good PI and ask him to help you track the OM down - and expose him.

as for your wife, common you are her backup now that OM won't have her and she is a SAHM. She realizes she's about to loose big here, and is trying to pull you back.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The most excellent book regarding boundaries is *Not Just Friends* by the late Dr Shirley Glass PhD. I highly recommend that you buy it and read it.


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for the book recommendation. I will look into it.

Shaggy, I know that 100%. that is the whole point. I am more important than that. She had already lost me, I moved her out and moved on or at least I tried. It is up to her to give me reason to give her another chance. At the moment I feel like I have just brought all the hurt back up to the surface by exposing this.
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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

*“How to Judge a Person’s Character”* by Marius Panzarella.

The biggest mistake a person can make is to get into a relationship (be it business, personal, or romantic) with the wrong person. You can literally ruin your own life.

So how can you tell if a person is trouble or not? Here are some tips on how to judge a person’s character before getting involved with them.

*1) Look at who their friends are*

The first thing you should do is to look at who their friends are. As I have mentioned in the past, you can judge a person’s character by looking at their choice of friends.

Don’t believe me? Do the “Rule of 5”* test and you’ll see how true this is! 

*You can judge a person’s character 99% of the time by looking at the five closest people they associate themselves
with.

*2) Look at their past actions*

Call me cynical, but I find that 90% of the time, you can judge a person by looking at their past history. As I always say, “once a liar, always a liar.” A person who has gone through 17 ex-girlfriends or boyfriends is NOT going to think that YOU are “the one” for long.

*3) Look at their actions, not their words*

While you are judging their actions, make sure you don’t fall prey to the victim stories that people with character problems always invent for themselves. Guys, don’t just believe ALL three of her ex-husband were abusive jerks. Ladies, don’t believe he’s “trying” to stop his bad habits.

As I always say, actions don’t lie, words do!

*4) Look at how they treat other people*

People with bad character tend to be self-centered. They may put you at first (more like pretend to put you at first) when they see a benefit, but as soon as they benefit is gone, they will start treating you like dirt. So rather than judging a person based on how they treat you while they still have something they want from you, judge them based on how they treat people that are not so useful to them.

*5) Look for lies or exaggerations*

Look for lies or exaggerations. See if their stories match up. Use your head and turn that B.S. detector on!

*6) Look for addictions*

Look for addictions to alcohol, drugs, gambling, and prostitution. Many people with character problems have one kind of dependency or another.

*7) Look at their attitude towards life*

Look at how the person looks at the world. See if they like blaming the world instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. See if they are so negative that they resent everything and everyone around them. (Stay AWAY if that’s the case!)

*8) Look at their beliefs and whether their actions are congruent with their beliefs.*

Finally, look at a person’s beliefs and see if they belong to a train wreck. But don’t just look at their beliefs. Follow the “actions, not words” rule and see if their actions are CONGRUENT with their beliefs. That’s where a lot of people fail!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If you're still married, and you're dating someone else, isn't that cheating?

Is it a legal separation?


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for the post morituri. The first point about the 5 closest friends opens my eyes a bit. My wife only has one friend that she sees on a regular basis. My wife truly is lonely. She has a hard time meeting other people and developing friendships. Unfortunately it would appear that men offer her an ear to listen to, but we all know why and where that leads. When we met she lived an hour and a half away so when she moved down, she moved away from her friends. She maintained contact for a while but one by one they eventually stopped communicating. I encouraged her to try new hobbies or attend mothers groups etc in the hope of finding new friendships. She always talks about not having found her place in the world. I'm not sure I have the ability to offer any solutions for her.

Having second thoughts regarding the boundaries. We did have boundaries in place. She knew what the boundaries were. She knew she crossed them by keeping all contact with the two guys (that I know of) a secret. How does someone learn to adhere to boundaries? Maybe the error in my ways was not being vigilant and insisting on transparency. It happened over a long period and her keeping her phone on silent and receiving messages from her mum/OM was an early warning that I missed. I know I will be paranoid about all those little things in future.
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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

that_girl, We are still married but have been separated for some time. My lawyer has issued her the settlement terms etc so I believe I have no moral obligation at the moment to be loyal to her.
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

that_girl said:


> If you're still married, and you're dating someone else, isn't that cheating?
> 
> Is it a legal separation?


i considered myself divorced the day i walked out for the last time.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, legally you weren't divorced. Can't the ex use that against you? Guess it depends on the laws.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Would appreciate if we could tone down the rhetoric.

Don't understand the value in trying to convince the OP he's a 'cheater'.

If two people that have abandoned their relationship are involved in other relationships ... calling that cheating is a stretch.

Messy? Yes. Appropriate? Questionable. But it certainly doesn't rise to the level of deception, lies, and emotional betrayal associated with 'cheating'.

If this is the case, ex and I have been cheating on each other for the last 4 years. We still aren't legally divorced. 

If OP is being honest with himself, and his current partner, there isn't much more that can be asked or required.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why not get divorced then?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

that_girl said:


> Why not get divorced then?


My case?

She says I'm controlling. Thus ... I have given up control and handed it to her. 

There is no up-side for me. Quite the opposite, accountant tells me that my tax burden will go up by about 12K. That's a bit steep in my mind to feel morally justified to 'date'.

In the event that I meet my next ex-wife while dating, I'll think about it ...


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Well, legally you weren't divorced. Can't the ex use that against you? Guess it depends on the laws.


well, considering i had e-mails, yahoo chats and her boyfriend was living in my house before i met syrum, i dont think she had much chance with that


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

Thankyou Deejo.

I don't believe I could be betrayed as cheating in any way shape or form. When it came time to separate from my wife, I warned her that I wouldn't waste my life away and would start dating again. I gave her every opportunity to stop what she was doing and work on the marriage. We went to counselling which she couldn't be bothered with. I tried every avenue I could. I was always honest with her and never deceived her. When I did start dating, I had nothing to hide and if she asked, she would be told anything she wanted to know.

I feel terrible for the woman I am dating at the moment. I feel so irresponsible for seeing her before I'd completely detached myself emotionally from my wife. At the time I didn't know that though. When the wife moved out, I sucked it up and thought it was time to move on and not look back. I never realised how much I would miss her even though she treated me terribly in the end. I have been honest with this woman even though it hurts her.

This morning my wife is a complete wreck. It appears that she is now feeling the full wrath of what her actions have caused. I know she wants to get her family back and she keeps repeating over and over that she wishes she could turn back the clock. I keep telling her if she has any chance with me, she needs to stop thinking it is ok to just forget about it and move on. I cant go on like that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is a list to read with your wife. 

Since your wife is shy about meeting people, see if you can take the lead where you both can meet people together and she can make friends that way. A good place to start is at church, the Y etc. But ALWAYS trust and verify what she is doing with a GPS and complete transparency on phones,facebook, texts ETC. As a SAHM, there are many, many examples here, she has a lot of time to get into trouble anywhere she goes including church. No compromise on complete transparency. Kudos to you for trying to get your family back together. If the wayward spouse instructions doesn't have a very strong effect on your wife thats very bad.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Aa my advice to you is to finalize your divorce so that you can move on with your life. Give yourself some alone time to regroup and heal. And let your stbxw deal with her personal issues which contributed to the end of the marriage.

Deejo, I understand your point but call me old school because for me a married person who is having an extra-marital relationship is being unfaithful to his/her vows. Whether it's all in the open via a forced open marriage (no lies no deceit) or a hidden via an affair (lies and deceit), vows - and hearts - are broken.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Lots of good things goin on in here and I see all sides!

I don't understand, but I see!

But to that long post up there...dude.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Lots of good things goin on in here and I see all sides!
> 
> I don't understand, but I see!
> 
> But to that long post up there...dude.


:rofl:


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Aquila, what are you the pot calling the kettle black---or do you just have your head in the sand

You caught your wife cheating---OK---that is fine, had you stayed out of a relationship, but you DIDN'T.

You can say you are seperated, spin things however you want, and that is also fine---BUT YOU GOT NO RIGHT TO BLAST YOUR WIFE, IF YOU ARE STILL MARRIED TO HER, AND SEEING ANOTHER WOMAN YOURSELF.

You wanna play the betrayed, script, then you do it right, and that means you stay the F. single, and by yourself, till there is a D.

You wanna mess around, then you got no right to bludgeon her. So get off your high horse, and stop telling us how horrible your wife is, cuz you actually ain't no better than her, at this point.


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

jnj express. Are you for real! As far as I'm concerned, I have been single for the past 7 months. The moment I bought her a house and moved her out, I was single and I told her that when she chose to leave. A divorce certificate is only a piece of paper as far as I'm concerned. The woman I am seeing hasn't divorced yet either. She has been separated for 2 years. Are we both having an affair behind our partners back. Get real!!

I am not even going to respond to people who dare to call me a cheater because I have been cheated on twice behind my back and know how it feels to be betrayed. I would never ever put anyone through the misery I am going through now and I pride myself on being an open and honest person. Don't you dare put me in the same category as that!!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

jnj express said:


> Hey Aquila, what are you the pot calling the kettle black---or do you just have your head in the sand
> 
> You caught your wife cheating---OK---that is fine, had you stayed out of a relationship, but you DIDN'T.
> 
> ...


Over zealous much? Some times common sense is much better than a legal document.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I think it's going over board to compare aquila's case to his wife's. If you want to be pedantic, yes it is cheating though it's pretty clear both parties had checked out of the marriage and just a stamp was needed to formalize things.

Aquila, she only wants you back because the other guy rejected her. I wouldn't want to be anyone's sloppy seconds and I'm sure you wouldn't either. Your wife is protecting the other man (like you said not to spoil any future round 2s) and spitting on your dignity. 

This is not someone to grow old with let alone cherish. I know you've been hurt before and maybe 3 rd time will be the charm but right now, this isn't a woman showing remorse for your pain, just fear at what she's about to lose.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Whoa there Aquila---I can read, as well as anyone else can, ---If there is something else to this story---than fine---bring it on---but based on what YOU STATED---YOUR OWN WORDS---your wife, had an A. WHILE SEPERATED, JUST AS YOU are seeing a woman while seperated---so why don't you try explaining to me---why your wife has to go NC, but you don't, why your wife is getting crapped all over, but as to you, what you are doing is fine and dandy.------Your being betrayed upon twice before----has no bearing on what is going on now----your wife cheated--------she deserves to be, come down upon---BUT ONLY , if you yourself, are not cheating----you are already in your own relationship, so where do you get the right to make demands of your wife----It is to bad your wife is not here to defend herself, so we could hear both sides of this story!!!!!!

I do not ever wish betrayel upon anyone---but you are all over your wife, yet you are with a woman of your own---YOU DO NOT GET IT BOTH WAYS

I am just regurgitating, your own writing, if I am wrong please enlighten me.


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## Aquila audax (Aug 9, 2011)

You obviously didn't read too well. My wife had 2 EA's while we were apparently happy together. While she slowly fell for the last guy, she slowly lost all affection to me. For months I endured the torture of sleeping in the same bed with my wife and getting pushed away at the slightest physical touch. I was rejected, my feelings were worthless and she didn't give a damn about the hurt I was feeling. I tried everything I possibly could to turn my marriage around including counseling when she refused to go anymore. I took her out on date nights and did everything she asked for, while all the while she was whispering words of affection into someone else's ear. Maybe you should read a little closer next time before posting. 

And by the way, my wife has been reading is. I do not keep anything private.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She's a serial cheater aquila, she's been testing the waters throughout your relationship while you've been nothing but a loving husband to her.

Move on.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

OK---now you have given more information---I can see where your wife deserves what is coming to her.----


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sad situation. Its unfortunate that even reading these posts and seeing you with another woman is not enough to completely snap your wife out of the fog she's in.

Your wife is cake eating, rug sweeping and doing all those nice little domestic chores that unrepentant spouses do to placate the suckers they married. I do not believe she sincerely wants to reconcile, but rather is using you as her safety net in the hopes that she gets back in good graces with the OM.

End this Shakespearean drama of a marriage. Dump Lady Macbeth for good and go grab that girlfriend of yours and tell her your sorry you were such a putz, and that you love her and want to make a future with her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

To avoid continued thread jacking, those who are interested can continue posting on the thread I created titled * http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ate-extra-marital-romance-sex.html#post597928*


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