# Difference between visual and literary erotica/porn



## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

What is the difference?

They both elicit the same sexual response, one just appeals to your visual sense, the other to your imagination. I know that there are arguments that visual (call it pornography) objectifies women (and I guess men too). It somehow hurts the actors involved, yet you always hear from folks in the industry that they are just playing a role in a film and that they enjoy their job. Literary sexual material (call it erotica) requires the reader to use their imagination. I know when I read erotica, I usually picture someone I know in the roles (usually myself and my wife). Some readers may imagine other actors or other people they have seen or just some imaginary person. 

I ask this because my wife has always disliked pornography films. She did not let me look at them, even for the 11 years of our once sexless marriage. Her main hang-ups were that it objectifies women and that it made her feel inadequate. That was understandable to me at the time, especially because I thought she was a non-sexual person. So I obliged and refrained from looking at porn except for a few times of desperation when I thought I was going to explode from sexual frustration.

Fast forward many years, she is really opening up sexually. She has started to read “fanfiction” that has a lot of smut and sexually graphic material (they call them “lemons”). She bought some toys too, something I have asked her if I could by for her for years; she thought that was too dirty. I know all this reading has really got her mental wheels turning her on. Once I saw that she enjoyed this stuff, I picked some erotica for my own reading please since she did not like me watching it in film. She was OK with that. However, I still like the occasionally visual outlet; I am a man aren’t I? 

So I am going to broach this topic again with her. Let her know that I enjoy watching two people have sex. I am not lusting after the woman in it. I don’t want to have sex with anyone on the TV. It just turns me on to watch, being a voyeur. Even if it was just the softcore stuff on “Skinamax”, that stuff is pretty hot too. They don’t actually have sex or show all the parts and money shots. 

What is the difference? I know you all have opinions on the topic. Let's debate!


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I was thinking about shooting DW a note about the topic. This is what I would write:

Hey babe. I have a topic of discussion for you: sexual material



I have been thinking a little about this lately. What is the difference between visual and literary sexual material. They both elicit the same response but through different stimuli. Once appeals to your visual sense, the other to your imagination. I know you are OK with erotica/lemons but in the past you were not OK with it on TV. I know your main hang-up is that you feel it objectifies women (and men as well I would guess). That is the only real difference, one has actual actors and the other has actors in your head. You know I dig both forms but you don't like the visual kind. Have your thoughts changed on this? You know that if I were to watch, I am not fantasizing about having sex with the person on the TV. To tell you the truth, both the guys and the girls together is what turns me on. Girl/Girl does not have the same effect.... no I am not gay I just get turned on at watching the couple and I fantasize about you and me. What about the type: softcore (Cinemax like) vs hardcore (actual parts are involved)... does that make a difference to you? I mean, as I read through some of the erotica and stories, that stuff is just as graphic, maybe even more so, than what you see on TV. Imagination can do wonderful things!



Don't get me wrong, you are keeping more than satisfied, but sometimes I do get the urge to take care of myself and I know you do not like me to initiate with you. What is wrong with me watching it rather than reading it? I totally respect you as my partner and completely respect your wishes. You know you are HOT AS HELL and no one in real life or pretend (be it on TV or in my head) can compare to you. You are a complete GODDESS... my goddess; that is all I need. But sometimes (OK a lot of times) I am just horny and I don't want to bother you. Of course we could always tape each other and I could use that; that would be WAY hotter!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

With things going so well, why do you want to mess things up? You can certainly masturbate w/o porn. You're not the only visual person out there as there are a lot of visual women out there. So this isn't about you being a man. This is about you wanting something else to get off to. She might feel that you're heading down a road she didn't like earlier and it might set her back.

If you lie and say she's keeping you more than satisfied, she'll see right through it. If you were satisfied, this topic would never have come up.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

dobo said:


> If you lie and say she's keeping you more than satisfied, she'll see right through it. If you were satisfied, this topic would never have come up.


Thanks for the advice dobo.

I am all about rocking the boat! That is my MO.

Ok, then I should address that a little differently. I am satisfied when we are having sex, I certainly need it more often. Maybe that is what we really need to talk about, give her the option of bumping up the frequency or letting me do my thing when she would rather not be with me. When it comes to masturbation, it is not about her anyway, it is about me. It is no different than her taking her toy and mastubating while reading smut and picturing Robert Petterson and Kristen Stewart, which is what she does, she told me.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

It is better to be honest with her than to lie to her. And if you lie and it concerns porn, you will regret it sure as god made little green onions (yeah, I know it is apples but he probably made onions too). 

Whether you masturbate or not is up to you and between you and her. Are you not allowed to masturbate? If you're jealous of what she does talk to her about it. If you think a toy is equivalent to porn, I would disagree. Using your imagination is a LOT different than viewing porn. Where using your imagination can help with partnered sex, porn is so disconnected all it can do is harm partnered sex.

I guess you just have to be sure what you're rocking the boat about before you rock it. Be honest with yourself and with her and deal with the fallout from there.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I agree that using your imagination is a LOT different than viewing porn. Because with porn, you are watching two couples have sex, you are a vouyer, period. Not much left to fantasize about. When you are reading erotica, you are puting yourself in there with some other person. Now if that other person was always your spouse, that is great. But somehow I think that most women tend to use Brad Pit or Robert Pattinson in their mind rather than their spouse. Your imagination has a lot more freedom than a given visual image.

I guess the main point is that it should be completely reasonable for me to ask if it is OK to watch some form of sex on TV, heck we do it together watching things like True Blood or some other movie. The only diference between that and, say Cinemax late nite, is they just cut to the chase and there is more of it. Also, it is not two dificult to make a resemblance 
of masturbating using different mediums, weather it be through reading or visually. 

Opinions?


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## ozymandias (Sep 22, 2009)

Pornography is pornography regardless of the medium. You are correct that there is hypocrisy here. I think part of marriage is being diplomatic enough not to smack your partner around with it though. I second the opinion to tread lightly - especially since things are going well.

Speaking of opinions....



dobo said:


> Where using your imagination can help with partnered sex, porn is so disconnected all it can do is harm partnered sex.


This is funny. It's like saying "I don't enjoy how brussel sprouts taste so clearly they are unhealthy for everyone."


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I think that because things are going great now. we are better able communicate frankly about things like this. I don't want to lie to her and watch porn without her concent, but I also want her to understand that sometimes I just need the release and the visual aid helps. I would never throw it in her face, just like she does not talk to me about all the steamy stuff she reads and when she breaks out the toys, that is her business. I just feel that she has gained more respect for me and that she can now better empathize with how I work, sexually.

I sent her the note... we will see how it goes


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

I think you should broach the subject with her. Tell her this turns you on for whatever reason and you would love to watch some of it with her. See how she reacts, the new “sexual wife” might go for it. If not, you might need to not do it. Funny, if I fantasize during sex it is about another woman I know or have had, which is almost like cheating. However, if I watch porn it is just watching other people, I personally do not fantasize about being there or being one of them. Point is, actually the porn is “safer” for the marriage and “less” like cheating.

A lot of women are into porn but of course us men as a group are more visual. I personally like stories more but I am probably more an exception. But I agree there is no difference.

I am very lucky now, my wife encourages me to do whatever turns me on, reading, watching, whatever. This sort of stuff does not make her jealous but of course sexual chatting with someone else would.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks for the encouragement Chuck.

We did talk it over and it went really well. I think the respect in our relationship has really grown in the last several months. While she may not like porn herself and she can't reconcile erotic literature to porn exactly, she can see the similarities in how each medium is an enjoyment for each of us. I don't expect her to watch porn with me or buy them as a gift for me. I am not going to throw it in her face or be too overt with it, but I am not going to hide it or lie about it either. 

This is another big step in our relationship. Not so much as now I can look at porn, but that we feel comfortable enough to discuss a dificult topic, the real meaning of it, and respect each other enough to come to an understanding.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't know why I didn't suggest this in the first place -- if she's using toys w/o you, she can certainly put that time and energy into you. Instead of porn, that makes a lot more sense and actually builds the relationship where porn can destroy it.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

BTW, I don't know what other women do, but I never fantasize about movie stars or anyone like that. Why? They're as unreal to me as porn is. But I think that most guys don't admit that they want what they see in porn and this is part of the lie that is porn. 

This idea that using your imagination leads you places where porn doesn't is frankly, ridiculous.

Anyway, I believe that if you are not satisfied sexually and she is masturbating, she is being selfish. I'm not saying that individuals should never have the right to a little private time. But I am saying that when you've got a situation like this, instead of replacing the partner with something else, the partners need to address one another's needs personally, first and foremost. 

If she doesn't like porn, I suspect if you watch it, things will go in a negative direction even if she can't reconcile what she's doing with it. People are wonderful at hypocrisy.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Good point with the toys. However, I don't think she actually uses them that much, maybe once a week. I have mentioned to her before that I would be happy to use the toy with her; she is not ready for that. I can understand that she can get something different out of the toy, I don't feel threatened or jealous of it.

I still don't get where porn will necessarily destroy a relationship. As long as there are no lies, there is an understanding between the partners, it can be a useful and rewarding tool, if just for educational purposes. Now if it became addictive and was preferred over partnered sex, then that would be an issue.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Education? Sorry. That's something I just don't buy. The women in porn don't respond like real women so there's not much a guy can learn from porn about sex or love or women. Porn is about guys and their desire to have a ready woman all of the time, to fulfill their need to feel in control and like men. It has zip to do with education.

If she's using them once per week, she can have sex with you once per week more often. She probably does need that alone time to explore her own sexuality since she's a late bloomer, but I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that she replace her toy with you. 

RE destroying a relationship, just be careful. If she doesn't like porn, she's not gonig to like you watching it. It will bother her even if she doesn't want to say anything because she will feel that she has to give up her literature. And it will come out in some other area. You can experiment and see if anything changes, but be watchful and not so trusting on this one. Just a word to the wise.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Good debate going here.

Speaking of double standards...



dobo said:


> BTW, I don't know what other women do, but I never fantasize about movie stars or anyone like that. Why? They're as unreal to me as porn is. But I think that most guys don't admit that they want what they see in porn and this is part of the lie that is porn.


How can you say that woman don't fantasize about anyone other than their partners when reading, but men somehow fantasize or want the woman in porn? Why could you not just give the benefit of the doubt to men that they are not lying? I hate to generalize but women are more emotional (mental) while men are more physical (visual). Why can't that just be accepted and let the appropriate medium for each biological disposition be used? 



dobo said:


> This idea that using your imagination leads you places where porn doesn't is frankly, ridiculous.


We will agree to disagree. 



dobo said:


> If she doesn't like porn, I suspect if you watch it, things will go in a negative direction even if she can't reconcile what she's doing with it. People are wonderful at hypocrisy.


I guess I will have to see, but I do not accept hypocrisy in my relationship.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

dobo said:


> Education? Sorry. That's something I just don't buy. The women in porn don't respond like real women so there's not much a guy can learn from porn about sex or love or women. Porn is about guys and their desire to have a ready woman all of the time, to fulfill their need to feel in control and like men. It has zip to do with education.


So what's the problem? If there is a desire and no one is being harmed, is there really an issue?

What about the stories, they are even more unrealistic then porn. The stories depict the women being ready to explode, her body yearning and ready at the sight of her lover. Impossible passion between the two. Simultaneous climax. Depictions of physical beauty way beyond the attractiveness of any actor. Take Edward Cullen for example, he is literally "impossibly handsome and gorgeous". The girls who read this are so infatuated with his character. Even the supper hot Robert Pattinson can't even compare to the character. If the reason is that your spouse feels like they can't live up to those expectations. How about trying to live up to "impossible" vs a human actor?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Since I don't read these stories, I can't really comment. I think they're both fairly useless. They substitute for real connection with a partner. 

I do think that building desire for what you can't have is prepping for trouble. After a while you begin to feel like you're being denied something that you have a right to or that everyone else is getting. 

I think perhaps you have more resentment about what she's reading and doing than you would prefer to admit.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

dobo said:


> Since I don't read these stories, I can't really comment. I think they're both fairly useless. They substitute for real connection with a partner.
> 
> I do think that building desire for what you can't have is prepping for trouble. After a while you begin to feel like you're being denied something that you have a right to or that everyone else is getting.
> 
> I think perhaps you have more resentment about what she's reading and doing than you would prefer to admit.


I will have to agree with you on this dodo. They are fairly useless as far as improving a relationship. They really only serve us as indivisuals to get off. I have told her that I would much rather have sex with her that watch porn, but at the same time, I don't expect her to be in the mood every day like I am. So it is sort of a comprimise. As long as it does not replace sex with her it is OK.

As far as any resentment about her reading, there was definately some at first. She spend a TON of time reading, way more time than she did with me and we were not having much sex as well. Her main excuse for not having sex was that she was too tired and did not have the time, yet it was at night after we all (kids and I) went to bed that she spent most of her time reading. However, I think it ended up working in my favor. The reading got her sexual wheels turning and she was umm.... more... frisky. I think it opened her up more sexually while at the same time gave her some "self" time to be an individual and fantasize instead of being a mom and a wife all the time. It gave her back some of her identity. Now I am actually very happy and grateful that she found this outlet. That said, there still may be a little resentment as far as how much time she spends and that she is not always "ready" for me.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you should ask her to turn toward you instead of away from you and to ponder what that request really means.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

What you've got there is mentally stimulated woman and visually stimulated man. Maybe he should request to her that they "swap" for one week where she watches porn and he reads erotic novels. Would do both good.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

They're both stimulated by the same things. I don't know where this idea that women are considered non-visual has come from except that it has become the focus of men to justify porn -- they're more visual. Puh. Women become aroused as well, and in fact, studies show by both sexes in porn.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Who buys millions and millions of erotic novels? women. Who buys millions of porn flicks? men. On average that's how it goes.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

This is getting interesting here! So we pretty much came to an agreement on the whole porn thing; she does not like porn, does not like me looking at it, but understands where I am coming from and she accepts it. The conversation took a turn at some point when I mentioned that I would much prefer us taping each other so I could watch that when I take care of business. She said no way to that. Go figure.

This somehow evolved into what my expectations are sexually. Wow, that was a big door to open. So what did I do, I laid it all on the line, everything I wanted in our sexual relationship, everything. We will see where this goes. I wrote them out for her. There were about 25 things I put on there, wow. There were only a few she took exception to. Where do we go from here:smthumbup:


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Martino, that's historically. You are arguing culture versus what is typically the truth about erotic physical response.


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## Blaze (Sep 16, 2009)

Wow, this really hits home for me at the moment. 

As a married woman, what bothers me about hubby wanting to look at smut magazines is that he wants to masterbate while looking at an image (or images) while I help him along. 

The thing I have a problem with is he'll be looking at the "other woman" while climaxing - not me, necessarily, although I'll be there. 

Gosh, I find this a bit hurtful. 

I told him I don't have a problem with him viewing porn movies or periodicals as long as he isn't masterbating to them. Get aroused then come (ha!) to me for release. 

That's fair, isn't it??

And just for the record, I enjoy looking at porn (amataer video shorts of various sorts of heterosexual encounters) and do so nearly every day. I also read smut romance novels and keep my appearance up for him. In other words I simply do what I can to keep myself revved up because hubby and I "enjoy" one another every single day, to some extent. 

The difference is.. when I view porn, I do not masterbate to it, nor do I imagine any of the characters in the porn or romance novels what so ever while I climax. I am thinking of either myself (my body) or my spouse. 

We're discussing this between us now, and states he feels he needs some variance in our sex life. That's understandable - who wants vanilla every day? But I'm totally there for him 24/7. I do whatever he likes, dress in beautiful lingeree (or not!) and I curl his toes nearly every day and he makes me feel good too. 

So why invite a stranger in the bed with us while we're in the middle of having our relations?? I don't get it.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Blaze said:


> So why invite a stranger in the bed with us while we're in the middle of having our relations?? I don't get it.


I personally don't see it as inviting a stranger in bed or into the relationship. I really don't lust after the woman; it is the act of what they are doing as a couple that turns me on. 

My wife and I did something similar when we were dating. We rented videos a few times and watched them while having sex. It was pretty cool. I really can't remember what I was looking at when I Oed. She did it a few times but did not really care for it so we never did it again. 

I really don't see the difference between just watching porn and watching it while masturbating. I don't think it would be possible for me to just sit there and watch it, things would turn blue very quick. 

--------------------

Question for you folks. I was talking about this with my wife and again mentioned that I would really prefer to make a tape of us and I would just use that to watch whenever she was not in the mood and I was. I asked her point blank, "would you prefer me watching porn or us filming each other?" She prefers porn. Why would you think that would be?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

She doesn't want you to study her or see any flaws in her. She wants you to simply enjoy being with her, in real life.

I guess I'd be upset with you for making such a big deal about this. I'd also question how truthful you are about what turns you on in porn. It is inviting someone else into your head while you're having sex, into your heart in terms of lust, and it is putting something BETWEEN you and your partner. Your partner should be enough. If your partner isn't, you need to work on your ability to relate to her.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Everyone wants variety -- but when you get married, you can't have other partners. Dreaming about them, lusting about other people, fixating on others, that sets you up for disappointment at home. Why can't people see that? Remember? Don't cover. Don't lust. There are reasons to avoid setting yourself up for discontent.

Further, if you're bored with your partner, YOU ARE BORING to your partner, too. Instead of wanting someone else, how about MAKING YOURSELF MORE INTERESTING? That's too much work. Porn is for lazy men.


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## Blaze (Sep 16, 2009)

hubby said:


> Question for you folks. I was talking about this with my wife and again mentioned that I would really prefer to make a tape of us and I would just use that to watch whenever she was not in the mood and I was. I asked her point blank, "would you prefer me watching porn or us filming each other?" She prefers porn. Why would you think that would be?


Another topic near and dear to my heart!

My husband and I are discussing this very thing. (hmm.. you're not him, are you? LOL)

I want to film him/us - he's looking at me like I'm nuts. LOL But my theory is.. what I'd film of us definitely turns me ON and I'd love to be able to view it again and again on the privacy of my computer (instead of just regular porn on xtube or wherever). He's warming up to the idea. I can't wait!! Whoopeee!!! Hopefully your wife will warm up to the suggestion too. Maybe do what I plan on doing, film something pretty mundane of the two of you (a short one) and show it to her with encouraging words like "this looks so hot to me, watching us doing such-and-such", etc. Then up the ante after a bit. I dunno - color me a pervert, but I think filming your own lovemaking is very sensuous. 

Your movies must be completely private and she must have complete trust in you that it'll stay that way.

Blaze


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## Gomez (Jun 5, 2009)

My wife and I made videos of each other. Found out the lighting is hard to get right, our camera doesn't show much except shadows when there is just candle light. The one of her givin me a bj worked out great though.

We also sat down at the computer together and I let her pick which one she wanted and then was stunned at what she choose. Way harder stuff than what I like. She found some dungeon tied up and whipped and tortured stuff. Well I watched it with her and didn't say anything, it was such rough stuff it didn't even make me hard, but in ten minutes, as the girl on the screen was begging for permission to have an ograsim, my wife said "I'm gonna come too" and then proceeded to squirt so much the carpet was wet beneath the chair she was sitting on. 

I would never in a million years have picked out such a thing for my wife to watch, but knowing thats what she likes I get as rough as I want in bed, but its still pretty mild compared to what we watched. She just likes to be treated like a bad girl in bed and it balences it in her mind so she can happily be marthat stewart in the rest of her life.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

When I thought of the whole filming as an alternative to porn I thought it would be the perfect thing for us. I was so surprised that she preferred me watching another couple have sex rather than us. I did not push to understand why, but I am curious. Could it be that she is so self-concious that she would rather me look at others? I would have thought that would be such a turn on to her that I would love to watch us having sex. Go figure.


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## Blaze (Sep 16, 2009)

You did mention in a previous post that she's gained weight.. right? Maybe that's it then.. she's self-concoius.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I think you are correct in that she is self conscious. However, she and I have been on a fitness kick this year. She has dropped 20 pounds, down to 110. She has always been gorgeous, but now she is straight HAWT! I make sure she knows this. She has nothing to feel self conscious about, but still she is. 

In fact, she is so self conscious that she is very hesitant to let me go down on her. It has been since before we were married that she has let me do that to her (12+yrs ago). I want it so bad but she still pushes it off. She is starting to get used to idea but she says it may not ever happen. Part of me feels OK with this, that she just wants to please me. But most of me feels like she is really missing out (never has an O with me) and it makes me feel inadequate. She does have trouble getting an O. Even when by herself with toys, she says it takes a long time to have an O and they are fairly fleeting in feeling. Almost not even worth it. I think the difficulty is mostly mental, she has OCD and it is very difficult for her to let go of life and let herself lose control.


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## olwhatsisname (Dec 5, 2012)

dobo said:


> BTW, I don't know what other women do, but I never fantasize about movie stars or anyone like that. Why? They're as unreal to me as porn is. But I think that most guys don't admit that they want what they see in porn and this is part of the lie that is porn.
> 
> This idea that using your imagination leads you places where porn doesn't is frankly, ridiculous.
> 
> ...


 lighting a fire is every ones desire ,but envy/jealousy/shame,bashfulness and all the other baggage in a marriage keep divorce at a terrible level. why are so many women coarse about sex so much???are men doing a bad job ??


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

hubby said:


> What is the difference?
> 
> They both elicit the same sexual response, one just appeals to your visual sense, the other to your imagination. I know that there are arguments that visual (call it pornography) objectifies women (and I guess men too). It somehow hurts the actors involved, yet you always hear from folks in the industry that they are just playing a role in a film and that they enjoy their job. Literary sexual material (call it erotica) requires the reader to use their imagination. I know when I read erotica, I usually picture someone I know in the roles (usually myself and my wife). Some readers may imagine other actors or other people they have seen or just some imaginary person.
> 
> ...


I have always been a voracious reader, and erotic literature gets me off at least as well as video's....

Back in the day, the old X rated porn was pretty lame, and the new internet vids are pretty much cookie cutter too...

Same thing after same thing...At least you can find something different in written erotica...

Of course many on TAM will tell you that watching one porn video will addict you for life, but I say, go for it..

The wife may have a new attitude about that too.....

cold fact

the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

hubby said:


> I think you are correct in that she is self conscious. However, she and I have been on a fitness kick this year. She has dropped 20 pounds, down to 110. She has always been gorgeous, but now she is straight HAWT! I make sure she knows this. She has nothing to feel self conscious about, but still she is.
> 
> In fact, she is so self conscious that she is very hesitant to let me go down on her. It has been since before we were married that she has let me do that to her (12+yrs ago). I want it so bad but she still pushes it off. She is starting to get used to idea but she says it may not ever happen. Part of me feels OK with this, that she just wants to please me. But most of me feels like she is really missing out (never has an O with me) and it makes me feel inadequate. She does have trouble getting an O. Even when by herself with toys, she says it takes a long time to have an O and they are fairly fleeting in feeling. Almost not even worth it. I think the difficulty is mostly mental, she has OCD and it is very difficult for her to let go of life and let herself lose control.


I initiated my wife to receiving oral in our first year of marriage...

She had been taught that it was "dirty"...

After she had a few orgasms from oral it became much "Cleaner"......

Try working up to it...Many women are afraid they might smell bad...During foreplay get close to her vagina and tell her how womanly and sexy her scent is....

Let her know it is the most erotic fragrance you have ever experienced...Tell her to never use any scents down there, as they cover up her natural perfume...She just might open up a bit...

cold fact

the woodchuck


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

It is the same thing, just in a different form!


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

This thread is about 3 years old...


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