# Specific View About Porn



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

My best friend of over 40 years (met when we were in elementary school) is recently divorced. He was married to his second wife for 15 years and it was a very difficult one and they were equally to blame. Just two different people. But both are, in my opinion, very quality people and they could have had a great marriage if they tried harder.

His one big near life long downfall is porn addiction. His wife never knew. Finally I was able to convince him to treat the addiction- computer program that wouldn't allow him on certain sites (I had the password), counseling, and group therapy. All big steps for him. He felt it time to confess his addiction to his wife and the steps he was taking to eradicate it from his life.

She went ape ballistic, demanded he leave and immediately filed for divorce. Her premise was that each time he watched porn he was cheating on her as if it was an actual affair. I have also heard other women opine the same. Most men don't see it that way (BTW, I do not watch porn). They would argue it is not an affair ion that they are not, and will not have sex one-on-one with another woman and see it as visual sexual pleasure. 

I tried speaking to his wife and we had a very pleasant discussion, but she was adamant the porn was actual cheating. 

Do any women or men care to offer an opinion on this? And BTW, I am not an advocate for porn unless both husband & wife want to watch it to enhance their sex life together.'


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm a woman that used to watch porn, and I find it nothing more than visual stimulation. I see sex and sexual needs as natural things, and I don't really see it as cheating. I guess that porn is only an issue is my partner is not into me but goes for porn, or if the addiction starts to affect the daily life.

IMO, I can't make simple judgments on this case since I don't know them at all, but to break a marriage coz of porn seems too extreme. Is she angry coz he lied to her? Does she really think that it is cheating, or is she actually very insecure to find out that her husband is into porn? For many people, porn is just some visual aid, and not even comparable to the love they have for their partners.
Also, he should have tried to be open to her right at the beginning. The more secrets we have towards each other in a marriage, the more it shows how we actually lack of real trust on each other.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

lilith23 said:


> I'm a woman that used to watch porn, and I find it nothing more than visual stimulation. I see sex and sexual needs as natural things, and I don't really see it as cheating. I guess that porn is only an issue is my partner is not into me but goes for porn, or if the addiction starts to affect the daily life.
> 
> IMO, I can't make simple judgments on this case since I don't know them at all, but to break a marriage coz of porn seems too extreme. Is she angry coz he lied to her? Does she really think that it is cheating, or is she actually very insecure to find out that her husband is into porn? For many people, porn is just some visual aid, and not even comparable to the love they have for their partners.
> Also, he should have tried to be open to her right at the beginning. The more secrets we have towards each other in a marriage, the more it shows how we actually lack of real trust on each other.


She just felt that any type of porn was a betrayal. Aside from that they had all sorts of problems.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> He felt it time to confess his addiction to his wife and the steps he was taking to eradicate it from his life.
> 
> She went ape ballistic, demanded he leave and immediately filed for divorce. Her premise was that each time he watched porn he was cheating on her as if it was an actual affair.


I think her perspective, if not her reaction is extreme although it sounds like the hubbys use of it was extreme also.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

anonim said:


> I think her perspective, if not her reaction is extreme although it sounds like the hubbys use of it was extreme also.


Oh it was. He had a room for it. I had been trying for years to get him to pay more attention to her and not porn. Or at least to use the porn to rip her clothes off... and spark the relationship. But he was ion a dark place with it all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> She just felt that any type of porn was a betrayal. Aside from that they had all sorts of problems.


So, in this case, the porn was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back? I can't say that I would consider it cheating, per se, but I would view it as a betrayal, if my husband ever were to start watching it.

My personal view of porn is that it has no place in my marriage. I am thankful to be married to a man who shares that view. And, I can't say that divorce would be my FIRST step if he ever chose to bring it into our house, but it is definitely something I would NOT put up with. He would be given the choice of getting rid of it, or he would be gone. But there would be a CHOICE there, not automatic divorce. 

I couldn't care less what others do in their own marriages. One likes porn? Feel free... but don't think I would be ok if you brought it into my house. I won't tolerate it under my roof, at all. I don't care if it is my kids, spouse, other relatives, friends. Don't bring it here. If I find it, it goes in the dumpster... and yes, my husband agrees.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I can't say that I would consider it cheating, per se, but I would view it as a betrayal, if my husband ever were to start watching it.


Why a betrayal and not cheating?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Why a betrayal and not cheating?


Hiding it. Not being open and honest about it. 

And, I am sure someone will jump on me about the whole "well, how can he be open and honest about it, if he knows you don't/won't/wouldn't approve?" Well, how can we have an open and honest relationship if he is hiding something like that? How can you have an honest relationship with someone if you hide things from them? You can't. There is always some part of you that you keep guarded, hidden away. But, like I said, I have no worries in that department.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I think because of her vile reaction to it, plus the diverse viewpoints about porn from women (or people in general) is why lots of guys keep this activity secret, if they use porn.

I personally don't believe viewing porn in itself is cheating, or something that is considered a "plural" activity between more than one person, so it's certainly not under the definition of "adultery" and who exactly would one be cheating _with_, the magazine publisher, the computer screen, the webhost, the mouse and keyboard? If a man browses at images of 200 women from different photoshoots, does each of those count as separate instance of cheating? Of course I'm not including chats or "webcamming" where there is interaction (that would be a plural sex act), by porn I'm just referring to viewing pre-produced material and not actually being involved in the content creation.

OTOH, if it is robbing the marriage of vital sexual needs and done in secret I could consider it a form of "cheating" just as one spouse witholding sex from the other in order to manipulate or get something could be considered a form of "cheating". But the word only has as much meaning as one wants to assign to it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> ...How can you have an honest relationship with someone if you hide things from them? You can't. There is always some part of you that you keep guarded, hidden away. *But, like I said, I have no worries in that department*.


as do most W's who find out that despite years of their H's telling them they are not into porn, and for years never having any red flags thus complete trust in your H... but then ultimately found out it was a lie all along...

Never say never Maricha, I hid my secret porn viewing from my W for several years... my old high school gf whom I dated for over 7 years had no idea that I'd even looked at porn, still doesn't to this day, but I was fascinated with it ever since I was in middle school.

So what will you do if you find out in months or years down the road that all along, even telling you directly to your face that he has no interest in porn, he secretly has been obsessed and has always found a few hours to have intense viewing sessions while you are off getting your hair done, and he was supposedly watching the game or working in the garage? I'm not suggesting this is a given or anything, I'm just saying that "betrayal" was definitely the right word, but how you react to it, should that ever happen, will make all the difference in terms of setting up the way in which you both would recover from it. It is definitely worth thinking about this now rather than saying "no worries in that dept", because that is generally how people get blindsided.

(and I'm not insinuating this is how your marriage is at all, I just stole your comment as an example of how betrayal works, so please take no offense!  )


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Lon said:


> OTOH, if it is robbing the marriage of vital sexual needs and done in secret I could consider it a form of "cheating" just as one spouse witholding sex from the other in order to manipulate or get something could be considered a form of "cheating". But the word only has as much meaning as one wants to assign to it.


Well stated.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Lon said:


> as do most W's who find out that despite years of their H's telling them they are not into porn, and for years never having any red flags thus complete trust in your H... but then ultimately found out it was a lie all along...
> 
> Never say never Maricha, I hid my secret porn viewing from my W for several years... my old high school gf whom I dated for over 7 years had no idea that I'd even looked at porn, still doesn't to this day, but I was fascinated with it ever since I was in middle school.
> 
> ...


Well, considering I have access to everything: TVs, DVDs, computer(s), phone(s), I am the one who does the shopping, I get the mail, etc... I'll take my chances that I am right. I say never, and I will stick to that. 

Yes, I know that there are many who are caught unaware by this. My husband HAS seen porn in the past, as have I. It was before we even met. We were both disgusted by it, and never touched it again. But, like I said, "IF" I ever learned that he had a hidden "stash", he would be given the choice of getting rid of it or leave. If he chose to get rid of it, I would stick with the marriage. If it were to later be discovered that he STILL hid it, even after agreeing to get rid of it, then he'd be gone. And it wouldn't "just" be because of the porn itself, but the lying and betrayal of trust.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> My best friend of over 40 years (met when we were in elementary school) is recently divorced. He was married to his second wife for 15 years and it was a very difficult one and they were equally to blame. Just two different people. But both are, in my opinion, very quality people and they could have had a great marriage if they tried harder.
> 
> His one big near life long downfall is porn addiction. His wife never knew. Finally I was able to convince him to treat the addiction- computer program that wouldn't allow him on certain sites (I had the password), counseling, and group therapy. All big steps for him. He felt it time to confess his addiction to his wife and the steps he was taking to eradicate it from his life.
> 
> ...


I don't believe in porn in really any circumstance for myself, but I don't judge what another husband and wife agree to do together so long as both are in agreement. However, I do not consider looking at porn as the same as actual adultery. It's difficult to describe...I wrote this post out once, thinking I had clearly described my feelings, and then read the rest of the thread and had to come back. 

I initially said that I wouldn't divorce my husband over porn use unless he began to neglect me and devote his time to the porn. However, this isn't really true. Although I don't see porn as actual adultery, I would see it as a major betrayal of our marriage vows. We vowed to have an exclusive sexual relationship, and before marriage we made sure to express that porn, emotional affairs and sexual affairs were included in that. Same as I promised not to read romance novels, as we both felt that they were similar to porn. 

The difference for us between adultery and porn is that, like Maricha, my first reaction to porn use wouldn't be divorce. I would definitely work through it, and try to do everything I could to save the marriage. And as long he was legitimately trying, I would stay. With adultery, there would, at least, be immediate separation. If there was no remorse over his actions, though, there would likely be immediate divorce. Not so with porn.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

No, I don't see porn as cheating. That's crazy.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I don't believe in porn in really any circumstance for myself, but I don't judge what another husband and wife agree to do together so long as both are in agreement. However, I do not consider looking at porn as the same as actual adultery. It's difficult to describe...I wrote this post out once, thinking I had clearly described my feelings, and then read the rest of the thread and had to come back.
> 
> I initially said that I wouldn't divorce my husband over porn use unless he began to neglect me and devote his time to the porn. However, this isn't really true. Although I don't see porn as actual adultery, I would see it as a major betrayal of our marriage vows. We vowed to have an exclusive sexual relationship, and before marriage we made sure to express that porn, emotional affairs and sexual affairs were included in that. Same as I promised not to read romance novels, as we both felt that they were similar to porn.
> 
> The difference for us between adultery and porn is that, like Maricha, my first reaction to porn use wouldn't be divorce. I would definitely work through it, and try to do everything I could to save the marriage. And as long he was legitimately trying, I would stay. With adultery, there would, at least, be immediate separation. If there was no remorse over his actions, though, there would likely be immediate divorce. Not so with porn.


My wifey is a writer in the Portland area.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> My wifey is a writer in the Portland area.


Awesome.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

If it has been affecting the sexual life of the couple, then no wonder why his wife exploded. Maybe explosion is too much, but to feel betrayed as well as to think that her husband did not have intimacy with her as much as it was supposed, while her husband is hidden in some dark room for porn...

I guess that there's no really right or wrong when it comes to porn, if the addiction is not affecting the relationship. But it's important to be able to be honest with each other. If you are afraid of being open to each other and reveal secrets, then maybe you are not with the right person.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

thatbpguy said:


> She just felt that any type of porn was a betrayal. Aside from that they had all sorts of problems.


I think that is her right to feel how ever she wishes.


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