# Honestly don't think I could ever cheat….



## Chloesmum (Dec 27, 2013)

I've been reading a lot of the posts, especially the ones about cheating. I feel for anyone who has been cheated on, I was there years ago long before I ever met my husband. I dated a guy for 3 1/2 years and my Mum was the one who told me he was marrying someone else. Broke my heart and took me forever to get over. Also, my Mum cheated on my Dad with his best friend. Dad was in hospital with severe MS and could no longer be home. I clearly remember Mum's "friend" picking me up from college and using HIS key to let me into my own house. He'd make coffee for himself and his clothes and undies were in Mum's bedroom. Her and I had a huge blowout over this and she didn't speak to me for six months. Thankfully Dad didn't know (I don't think), Mum's best friend told me after Mum passed away that on the night Dad died, she was so "busy in bed" with her boyfriend that she couldn't even bother to call me to tell me Dad was near death so I could be there to hold his hand as he passed away. My Dad died alone, and when I think of cheating I think of particularly this situation. Just venting…………sorry…..


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## HeartInPieces (Sep 13, 2013)

I had something similar happen to me with my ex. We dated throughout high school and planned to get married. We also planned to wait till marriage and be each other first. Everything was going great he proposed agreed to get married after college. I found out he was seeing another girl on the side. I only found out after the same girl he was seeing told me. He crushed me and worst part he was even sorry for what he did and blamed me for everything. It doesn’t really matter now since I would meet my husband a year later. It’s his loss he’d probably going to spend the rest of his life trying to find some as good as me 

PS. sorry for what happened to your dad.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

That must've been terrible for you Cm. I can't imagine how bad that would've been to learn your own mother could be so callous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

WOW I literally felt like throwing up with the story of your mother and his "BF", did she ever felt remorse?


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Now, I know someone that is married to someone with MS, and I've said, I wouldn't blame them for dating, while taking care of their spouse, but they don't have kids, it's been 30 years since her diagnosis, and she's been incapacitated for over 10 years.. but you don't flaunt it.. 

ugh.. 

That's awful.. you should have been able to be there for your dad.. it sounds like your mom wanted to punish him.. and why would you want to punish someone terminal? 

I'm sorry..


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I could never cheat. I'm one of those people that would have such a guilty conscience that it would show on my face within minuets. 

I've been cheated on and it blows my mind how they can still live under the same roof with you and act like everything is normal and keep it a secret. No guilt and can look themselves in the mirror and not bat an eyelash.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*First off, Chloesmum, my sincere apologies for what you had to endure during your father's demise.

Rest assured that when your mom and her "Stage Door Johnny" come to leave this world, that they will be queried by a higher power as to what it was that they were engaged in when your Dad was passing on. All without using a lie or a mis-statement, and for all to hear!.

With my religious and moral upbringing, I do not believe that I could ever cheat on someone that I had pledged vows and my undying love to before God and to the world. To do so would literally eat my conscience up and cause me to greatly lose honor before God. And even though I wish there more folks like me, I just couldn't live with myself if I ever broke those holy vows.*


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Chloesmum said:* Also, my Mum cheated on my Dad with his best friend. Dad was in hospital with severe MS and could no longer be home. I clearly remember Mum's "friend" picking me up from college and using HIS key to let me into my own house.


What happened to your father is heart wrenching , so unfair, cruel..emasculating to a man.... I also would feel very very very sad for a wife who had the love of her life have this diagnosis come upon him.. and need to be kept in a home because it was so severe... Frankly I would rather DIE in a tragic car accident before a diagnosis like that... or even have it come upon my husband, it would throw me into a deep deep depression...feeling the weight of what has been lost...what never will be again.. being thrust into a Caretaker situation.. it is excrusuaiting lonely...and no one expects the able bodied parent/ spouse to struggle.. they get lost in this... 

I can understand how someone in your mothers shoes could become very weak emotionally and respond to someone within reach.. I am not trying to offend you, the situation is very UGLY, and I hate stories like this...HATE HATE HATE....I say..... also the last post by browneyes74...a 30 yr diagnosis, incapacitated for over 10 years! and we think we have problems on TAM.. those who are healthy are blessed beyond [email protected]#$

Yes, these things are on a level of betrayal that makes others want to throw up... ...yet I am looking through the eyes and pain of these spouses left behind... what they face daily...watching someone they love wither away ....

Do we have any compassion on them....somehow I just can NOT judge... I am sorry.. 

Me & mine has talked openly about scenarios like this after watching a heart breaking British movie entitled "Braking the waves" about a Paraplegic...my husband brought tears to my eyes telling me if that ever happened to him, he would not want ME to suffer .. that I could take a Lover...yeah easy to say when things are good, isn't it... He knows that would Fvckin kill me... 

Somehow I just can't compare a situation like that... to ..let's say... a cheating husband taking his secretary to bed -doing her in the office -when he has a willing faithful loving able bodied wife at home waiting... can't see it through the same eyes....

So you'll have to excuse me.. I am not the cheating type, wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror either.... But I'd also be riddled with depression had I been the shoes of these spouses... 

So sad... just thinking about these stories... I feel for all involved.


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## Chloesmum (Dec 27, 2013)

Thank you for the comments everyone. I wasn't even sure if I should post this. My Dad got sick when I was 7 so his illness is nearly all I remember of him. He passed away when I turned 22. I have tried for years to try as hard as I can to understand why Mum cheated, and also why she turned to alcohol after Dad became sick. I can't imagine how hard it would have been for her to deal with a terminally ill husband and a young child at the same time. She told me before she passed away that she never loved my Dad, but I know for a fact he worshipped the ground she walked on. He was a wonderful father, even in his wheelchair he would read me bedtime stories at night and was always there for me, even in illness. My Dad was my idol. I think Mum's alcoholism is the reason I'm finding it so hard to deal with my husband's alcoholism. From the time I was 7 I was taking care of Dad, then Mum when she became ill after Dad passing away, and now my own alcoholic husband. If anyone can tell me how to take care of me I'd appreciate it. This is honestly something I have never learned to do. I'm not looking for a pity party, honestly, I'm just stating the facts. Thank you all again so much for your replies, I really appreciate all the honesty.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Read Codependent No More.. I swear, it's my second Bible.. And get some counseling.. You really need help with this.. 

I thought that i was together and smart, and I have to say, my STBXH's alcoholism has brought me to my knees.. Alcoholics can just steal your soul.. as well as their lives.. 

Start with that book. She has several.. Get counseling.. I'm realizing that my X has damaged me in more ways than I thought.. I thought he was unintentionally hurting me, but I'm realizing that more was intentional and abusive than I thought at first.. 

I think you will too. I'm so sorry.


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## Chloesmum (Dec 27, 2013)

Thank you Browneyes74!! I just ordered it, and also the workbook to go along with it. I think you are right, I do need help with all of this. I try to be so strong all the time, but things eat me up inside literally. I'm so sorry that your ex did that to you. Noone deserves to be treated like that. Hugs!!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I am very sorry to hear your story OP.

Personally I have no direct experience with cheating, never done it myself or knowingly been cheated on. None of my friends or family have cheated or been cheated on AFAIK. Even with no direct experience I know for certain that I would never cheat. I have an absolute commitment to monogamy and a zero tolerance policy from partners. 

People don't have to have had a bad experience to know where their boundaries lie. I would never cheat because I think highly of myself and would never lower or degrade myself in that way.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Years ago, I worked with a guy whose wife suffered from MS. The poor woman was really not well... I didn't really care much for this guy, anyway: was always late/leaving early, always calling in sick but then telling us later he just hadn't felt like working that day. You get the idea. You could talk to him a bit, but I didn't really like him very much.

One day, I passed by him and said "Hey, how's your wife doing?"

Him: Jesus Christ! All anybody ever asks about! 'How's your wife?", 'How is she doing?' Nobody ever wants to know if I'm alright. Nobody wants to know how I"M doing!

Me: Wow. Sorry. The next time you're suffering from an incurable disease which leaves you in agony I'll be sure to ask if you're feeling better.

So, I never asked about her again. I knew she was suffering tremendously, and I could tell that my co-worker wasn't exactly open to talking about it.

About a year later, he'd returned from vacation (at a softball tournament out of town) and when I saw saw him, I asked him how the week had been.

Him: Oh, it was great! The team played really well. And I got LAID!!!

Me: Ohhhh.

Him: Umm... You know... Hmmm... You know hit it is, right?
(You know, with the elbow nudge and wink.)

Me: No... Look, whatever, man. You're not married to me...

Him: It's not my fault she got sick! I have needs, you know! I didn't sign up for this.

I didn't say anything in return, but I was screaming "YOU DID SIGN UP FOR THIS, YOU SELFISH PRICK! That was the whole 'in sickness and in health' part." in my head.

---

OP, I'm sorry about your mother betraying your father and you. It sucks to find out that people we love can be capable of such levels of selfishness.

Humans...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sh987 said:


> It sucks to find out that people we love can be capable of such levels of selfishness.
> Humans...


Yep, that's exactly what people are....HUMAN.....I'd like to know how often YOU was getting laid when you judged that man? 

This post is to focus on the Pain of the Caregiver... 

Take a moment... and read some of these stories on this page *>>* All caregiver and sex messages .. the loss of sexual intimacy, hell most people on this forum can't even wait a couple damn dates to get LAID when they are young but will turn around and JUDGE the husband or wife who struggles with a diagnosis like THIS.. while they are getting plenty of nooky in their own bedrooms.. 

Although this Mother & this co-worker may very well not be NICE or loving people (even before their spouses MS)....though this doesn't mean that many others in a similar situation loved with a depth that was pure & Good.. dealing with emotional pain that most will never have to walk ...or understand the stages of pure grief.... *and still ...would NOT handle the loss of intimacy as beautifully as you all think* *they should*.. *they just keep it to themselves...as there is NO ONE who would dare understand*... 

I spent some time on a sexless marriage forum once reading those stories, I cried.. I was a freaking basket case thinking about these poor people- makes you HATE GOD for allowing such Pain to come upon some.... the desperate souls who couldn't leave a marriage , they loved, but they were drowning... they needed touched, they wanted to be wanted again... 

I seriously find it HEARTLESS to judge these people & call them selfish so quickly.... I see them as hanging by a thread...their dreams died when their spouse get these diagnosis. 




> Intimacy: A Casualty of Caregiving
> 
> There is a hidden cost to caregiving. It's not a financial expense, although you may be paying a pretty steep price. It's measured in emotional currency and there are no insurance policies to guarantee you protection. What is it? It's the price you pay when illness or disability deprives you of the intimacy you once enjoyed.
> 
> ...


 When I was a young girl, my Mother worked for a man who was saved on the Battlefield..... he had no arms and no legs, I went with her to the house a few times, I was absolutely horrified to see him sitting in that wheelchair like that..even in my young age, I felt horrible for his wife....what was lost , taken from that marriage.. .

THe Caregiver... no one thinks of them.. NOONE...and how dare anyone even suggest they have needs..


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

You're looking at this wrong, SimplyAmorous.

Sex is important, but not more important than standing with a loved one that is dying. The OP's mother was too busy ****ing instead of standing by her husband the night he died, and didn't even tell the OP so she could be with her father on his last breath.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anonymous Person said:


> You're looking at this wrong, SimplyAmorous.
> 
> Sex is important, but not more important than standing with a loved one that is dying. The OP's mother was too busy ****ing instead of standing by her husband the night he died, and didn't even tell the OP so she could be with her father on his last breath.


It's like I said, that MOTHER and coworker are likely not good people to begin with...douche bags even.... my posts are not to defend THEM.... 

Just to shed some light on how earth shattering / difficult this could be on a marriage.. . even a happy one...that's my contribution ..... You are all free to find me defending cheating if you want... I believe in honesty and openness..

Frankly... If I lost the ability to satisfy my husband, I'd give him freedom...that's just how I think.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Reminds me of this man that has no arms or legs.

LOOK AT YOURSELF AFTER WATCHING THIS.mp4 - YouTube


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's like I said, that MOTHER and coworker are likely not good people to begin with...douche bags even.... my posts are not to defend THEM....
> 
> Just to shed some light on how earth shattering / difficult this could be on a marriage.. . even a happy one...that's my contribution ..... You are all free to find me defending cheating if you want... I believe in honesty and openness..
> 
> *Frankly... If I lost the ability to satisfy my husband, I'd give him freedom...*that's just how I think.


But that would not be cheating so it is a moot point.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Holland said:


> But that would not be cheating so it is a moot point.


Well here is the thing, and it gets a little STICKY... we've talked about this at length a # of times.. He had told me he'd stick by me, be faithful wouldn't want his freedom... that's wonderful...makes me cry... I believe he'd make a fine CARETAKER... he is the most amazing man... 

Me, I don't believe I could handle it at all.. which would make me look like a selfish witch .. though my husband doesn't see me in this light...and he knows me better than anyone on this earth..... he would not want me to suffer.. if that happened to him.... he'd allow ME to take a Lover...does this mean I would.... .. Honestly.. I DON'T KNOW.. and I hope to never be put in that situation... 

How does one even function under that ... the guilt would overwhelm -that you even have desires alive in you to be with another.....but also the sheer loneliness & sadness...the ache to be filled.. wanted...touched again....It's just an ugly situation all around for anyone involved in it..

If others can live in a sexless Caretaking marriage and remain satisfied somehow...honestly... I see them as a Saint.....I am not a Saint.. I'd have to be put on depression meds to cope.. but then , I guess those would ZAP the old sex drive... so there ya go.

Again, Hate stories like these.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh, I see. You hadn't "sown your wild oats" in your younger years?

You remind me of a poster on Loveshack, haven't seen him in years


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anonymous Person said:


> Oh, I see. You hadn't "sown your wild oats" in your younger years?
> 
> You remind me of a poster on Loveshack, haven't seen him in years


I think that is a really low blow.. and no....this , my feelings has nothing at all to do with anything remotely related to not sowing wild oats in my youth... Ya know I come here , I am very open and honest... vulnerable and what do I get...cheap shots like that....I am sorry I have said anything on this thread at all.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Well here is the thing, and it gets a little STICKY... we've talked about this at length a # of times.. He had told me he'd stick by me, be faithful wouldn't want his freedom... that's wonderful...makes me cry... I believe he'd make a fine CARETAKER... he is the most amazing man...
> 
> Me, I don't believe I could handle it at all.. which would make me look like a selfish witch .. though my husband doesn't see me in this light...and he knows me better than anyone on this earth..... he would not want me to suffer.. if that happened to him.... he'd allow ME to take a Lover...does this mean I would.... .. Honestly.. I DON'T KNOW.. and I hope to never be put in that situation...
> 
> ...


Touch wood none of us ever find ourselves in a place like that. I have no clue what I would do. But I still don't see it as cheating if it was an open, honest situation.

IMHO cheating is underground, lying, deceitful and very different to what you are talking about. 
If I ever found myself in a sexless marriage again I would end it very quickly however if my partner was unable due to illness I would stand by him and turn off my sex drive.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think that is a really low blow.. and no....this , my feelings has nothing at all to do with anything remotely related to not sowing wild oats in my youth... Ya know I come here , I am very open and honest... vulnerable and what do I get...cheap shots like that....I am sorry I have said anything on this thread at all.


I didn't mean it as an insult, you just remind me of a poster on Loveshack when I posted there years ago.

I apologize if it came off as an insult.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Holland said:


> *Touch wood none of us ever find ourselves in a place like that. I have no clue what I would do. But I still don't see it as cheating if it was an open, honest situation.
> 
> IMHO cheating is underground, lying, deceitful and very different to what you are talking about*.


I've never heard that expression before "Touch Wood"...I appreciate your honesty... I don't think many would know what they would do.. I find it very emotional even *thinking* about it ... it's quite pathetic... what you say about the cheating here... this is how we both see it too.. 




> *Anonymous Person said*: *I didn't mean it as an insult, you just remind me of a poster on Loveshack when I posted there years ago.
> 
> I apologize if it came off as an insult*.


 I assume you were comparing me to someone who is complaining they missed their wild oats...No ? Was he in a situation like this thread is talking about - Care taking a part of his story ? 

I don't see how whether one had a variety of partners in their younger years or not....how this would have any bearing on a current struggle / the depth of feelings if this particular devastating situation came upon their marriage.. 

But thank you for the apology.. Even If I make myself sound bad at times.. I must remain true to my feelings. 

I clicked on that video link...but darn it...my laptop is acting up & it won't play at all ...read some of the reviews...I know watching that will make me ball.....a true inspiration...we have much to be thankful for.... I still feel bad for people like that.. but it's great he is happy...enjoying his life.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Cloesmum,



Please search for al-anon and acoa groups in your area, and give them a try. I have some experience with a local ACOA group (twenty years ago) and it was heartening beyond words to find people who had lived through worse than I but somehow managed to find a way to take care of themselves, thrive, and help others learn too.



Not knowing more of your mother's experiences, I am not in a position to judge her. It is easy to imagine the worst about her affair, and especially her behavior as your father was near death. But, until proven otherwise, one should also consider the other possibilities, IMHO.



My understanding of alcohol abuse is that for some it can be a means of escape, an (unhealthy) attempt to cope with an otherwise overwhelming reality. Seems plausible to me your mother drank to escape, escape from pain of losing someone she cared about.



I have no idea whether your mother ever loved your father, but skeptical me would not take her words denying her love at face value. She might have convinced herself she didn't love him so that she would feel less guilt over her behavior; perhaps she even went as far as selectively remembering his unloveable faults (we all have them) so she would feel -- in retrospect --entitled to have her affair. 



In any case, it seems she was in a difficult situation and behaved sadly differently than you or any of us here would aspire to. No doubt that was horrible for you to watch, or be told of. I am very sorry for you, your father, and anyone else hurt by her behavior. I wonder how much that part of it all hurts you still, when you think about it, or even when you don't.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Well here is the thing, and it gets a little STICKY... we've talked about this at length a # of times.. He had told me he'd stick by me, be faithful wouldn't want his freedom... that's wonderful...makes me cry... I believe he'd make a fine CARETAKER... he is the most amazing man...
> 
> Me, I don't believe I could handle it at all.. which would make me look like a selfish witch .. though my husband doesn't see me in this light...and he knows me better than anyone on this earth..... he would not want me to suffer.. if that happened to him.... he'd allow ME to take a Lover...does this mean I would.... .. Honestly.. I DON'T KNOW.. and I hope to never be put in that situation...
> 
> ...


SA,

May I just take a minute to say how much I respect your strength to stand up and be honest both with yourself and your husband? Like you, I have compassion for those caregivers. My son's mother-in-law has MS. Her husband is an absolute saint in my eyes. 

We really would improve the human race as a whole if we would learn to restrain our judgement. I'm not suggesting that I support the actions of the OP's mother any more than you are. Only that it was a tragic situation that everyone was a victim of.

Thank you for posting.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I assume you were comparing me to someone who is complaining they missed their wild oats...No ? Was he in a situation like this thread is talking about - Care taking a part of his story ?


His story? 

He grew up in a religious household where masturbation was a sin, lusting was sin, etc. He was very repressed, and had no sexual contact with a woman until he got married. In his first marriage, he never explored his fantasies, never experimented with his wife. They were only having "regular" sex. 

20 years later, he's divorced from his first marriage, he's no longer religious, and is married to a different woman. He started to explore his fantasies with his new wife. Eventually, they got into BDSM, started having threesomes, and they became swingers. The whole thing.

He sounded alot like you when you talk about "one love", but he was the opposite in that he praised having multiple partners. He was very happy, and enthusiastic.

He relates to this thread, because he divorced his first wife because they were at a different place in life. He wanted to explore his sexuality, she didn't. He was no longer attracted to her because of her weight, she didn't want to lose any.

If it doesn't seem relevant, forgive me. He just came into mind when reading your posts in this thread.



SimplyAmorous said:


> I clicked on that video link...but darn it...my laptop is acting up & it won't play at all ...read some of the reviews...I know watching that will make me ball.....a true inspiration...we have much to be thankful for.... I still feel bad for people like that.. but it's great he is happy...enjoying his life.


It is great, and though I'm not religious, his story does inspire me to live life as best I can.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Cloesmum,
Years ago my dad was cheating on my step mom and he just had to tell me about his affair to me... Like he was proud of it... He was 69 years old then...I thought he was a total dirt bag... He also cheated on my mom before they D...

Well a couple years, my step sister told me she thought my dad had a mistress... Well, I confirmed it...

So my Dad told me I was no longer his son...he told me not to judge him because I wasn't in his shoes... He died a few yeas later. We never R.

Now I find myself in a sexless marriage... I even have permission to take on a lover. My wife even says it wouldn't be cheating...

We are all just human...we all have desires...we all have needs...

I know what my Dad had to deal with my mom...She was an alcoholic and died from that. I don't know why he cheated on my step mom...maybe he was just a cheater...

Doesn't matter now.

For some reason you picked an alcoholic husband...you won't ever change him. I am an expert on that.

Find things that you can do that bring you happiness. Eventually your husband may come around.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Well here is the thing, and it gets a little STICKY... we've talked about this at length a # of times.. He had told me he'd stick by me, be faithful wouldn't want his freedom... that's wonderful...makes me cry... I believe he'd make a fine CARETAKER... he is the most amazing man...
> 
> Me, I don't believe I could handle it at all.. which would make me look like a selfish witch .. though my husband doesn't see me in this light...and he knows me better than anyone on this earth..... he would not want me to suffer.. if that happened to him.... he'd allow ME to take a Lover...does this mean I would.... .. Honestly.. I DON'T KNOW.. and I hope to never be put in that situation...
> 
> ...


It seems to me, unless the disability is quite advanced or in its final stages, there could still be some type of sexual interaction between the disabled and full bodied. Might not be as fulfilling as when both are healthy but I don't see why abstinence would have to be the case..........

Am wondering if people are thinking that this kind of sex would not be enough for them; I.e. the caregiver. Do people see what I mean?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Chloesmum said:


> Thank you for the comments everyone. I wasn't even sure if I should post this. My Dad got sick when I was 7 so his illness is nearly all I remember of him. He passed away when I turned 22. I have tried for years to try as hard as I can to understand why Mum cheated, and also why she turned to alcohol after Dad became sick. I can't imagine how hard it would have been for her to deal with a terminally ill husband and a young child at the same time. She told me before she passed away that she never loved my Dad, but I know for a fact he worshipped the ground she walked on. He was a wonderful father, even in his wheelchair he would read me bedtime stories at night and was always there for me, even in illness. My Dad was my idol. I think Mum's alcoholism is the reason I'm finding it so hard to deal with my husband's alcoholism. From the time I was 7 I was taking care of Dad, then Mum when she became ill after Dad passing away, and now my own alcoholic husband. If anyone can tell me how to take care of me I'd appreciate it. This is honestly something I have never learned to do. I'm not looking for a pity party, honestly, I'm just stating the facts. Thank you all again so much for your replies, I really appreciate all the honesty.


what would your dad want you to do?

stay with an alcoholic and be miserable?

or reach deep down inside yourself and find the courage to move on!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anonymous Person said:


> *His story?
> 
> He grew up in a religious household where masturbation was a sin, lusting was sin, etc. He was very repressed, and had no sexual contact with a woman until he got married. In his first marriage, he never explored his fantasies, never experimented with his wife. They were only having "regular" sex.*


 Well I was never THAT DAMN GOOD even though I , too was raised with going to church here & there... my Dad & step Mom could have cared less.... but I went to a youth Group with a friend on a regular basis... 

The difference between me & this man is maybe a few things.. I felt there was much goodness.. wisdom in waiting for the one man who would marry me & make me his wife...I used to read many books on such things... the value in that.. even taking the religion out of it... I agreed with what I read...it wasn't something I felt was just a bunch of Fundamentalists trying to contain my sexuality.... ..but yeah...we can take the hell fire & brimstone out of it... that never appealed to me, nor will it ever...

One thing about me.. I weigh every pro & con of anything that matters to me...I can also be somewhat rebellious when I disagree and vocal.. (look at this thread !)...once something has been established in my mind... I've weighed the various scenarios...what you are left with... is who you are .. right. Your deepest desires.. what brings you happiness.. I have rarely changed from my youth even -in what those DEEPEST desires are ... I would do almost everything the same.. so would husband. It's not the normal story here.. 

This man sounds he just went with the flow.. in his younger years.. not in touch with his deeper nature..the dark side that lurked....in his case...against monogamy..and everything he was taught..and sat under. 

I have always questioned Religion ....consider myself a Free thinker today.. but the Romantic woman inside has never left... she was ALWAYS there... this is what I am made of... S & M , 3 somes would never be my cup of tea... nor having a variety of partners... 

Getting frisky *WITH HIM* -exploring new things.. hell yeah.. I do not feel It would have benefited me anything to have been with other lovers, only regret would have came from that... 

Which is another reason even speaking like this *Here* is so difficult, tearful....it's an ugly ugly conflict. Almost hate myself to say such things...

Being the Sensitive woman I am...and how close I am with my husband is WHY these stories , just imagining them , would slice the hell out of me... to see the love of my life .... laying in a hospital bed, can't move, knowing what we've enjoyed, lived & loved is totally LOST forever and it's not temporary...this is IT... the sheer stages of GRIEF in that..... .the struggle to come to acceptance, would be a walk in pure hell...this I believe... 

The well deep Love I feel, it's attachment & emotional sensitivity would be like a noose around my neck if this ever came upon my marriage....*I would almost NEED to become NUMB..*...does this make sense to anyone?

Like PieceOfSky's trying to explain HOW this Mother fell to drinking afterwards ... His words "My understanding of alcohol abuse is that for some it can be a means of escape, an (unhealthy) attempt to cope with an otherwise overwhelming reality. Seems plausible to me your mother drank to escape, escape from pain of losing someone she cared about."
Makes sense to me!

I've never been drunk a day in my life but if THIS happened, I can see the temptation to pick up a bottle ....to Numb...addictions, weakness.. anything to make the pain go away. Is it healthy -NO !....It is human... YES! 



> *20 years later, he's divorced from his first marriage, he's no longer religious, and is married to a different woman. He started to explore his fantasies with his new wife. Eventually, they got into BDSM, started having threesomes, and they became swingers. The whole thing*.


 We even had a swinger friend in real life..we talked about his lifestyle.... not for us. BUt it was interesting to hear of his experiences.. No allure here. 



> *He sounded alot like you when you talk about "one love", but he was the opposite in that he praised having multiple partners. He was very happy, and enthusiastic.
> 
> He relates to this thread, because he divorced his first wife because they were at a different place in life. He wanted to explore his sexuality, she didn't. He was no longer attracted to her because of her weight, she didn't want to lose any.
> 
> If it doesn't seem relevant, forgive me. He just came into mind when reading your posts in this thread.*


 I don't think it relates, His story had nothing to do with the devastation of a Caretaking role... with loosing & grieving one of the greatest joys of marriage...



> *It is great, and though I'm not religious, his story does inspire me to live life as best I can.*


I watched that "no arms, no Legs" video, my laptop worked this morning.. That man is happy, thankful to be alive, his enthusiasm would put all at ease, many tears in that audience.... sounds he might even be married.. watched him going down water slides, jumping off a diving board.. playing golf.. wow ! That is some amazing SPIRIT.. I'll give you that.. 




> *nuclearnightmare said*: *It seems to me, unless the disability is quite advanced or in its final stages, there could still be some type of sexual interaction between the disabled and full bodied. Might not be as fulfilling as when both are healthy but I don't see why abstinence would have to be the case..........
> 
> Am wondering if people are thinking that this kind of sex would not be enough for them; I.e. the caregiver. Do people see what I mean?*


 Yes, here is a book written by Sex Therapists to deal with this....

Let Me Count the Ways: Discovering Great Sex Without Intercourse: ... when I talk about this , I am imagining the worst...Paraplegic...no movement from the head down....I had a thread here 3 yrs ago or so....on this topic ... asking "*what if the UNthinkable happened in your marriage?*"....after watching this British Tear Jerker  Breaking the Waves: - young couple...just married...horrible work accident, he becomes a Paraplegic... 

I shared what me & my husband talked about, how we felt.. .I think only 1 or 2 posters found my husbands response loving... others..*they judged*....what did I expect...I deleted it. 

I am hardly worried about my husband not being a "giver" sexually...if he only had a tongue to use, he's use it.. .even when I caused him some performance pressure, he told me to come to him... we worked through it...but many many men, when they struggle with ED, after a Prostrate surgery...read a heartbreaking story like that on another forum of the wife's pain ....she hated herself, felt so selfish but she was dying inside...she wanted HIM but all she got was rejection ..he was BITTER...he wouldn't even touch her, they had 30 yrs together grown children, he was the love of her life... it was all gone...she was emotionally drowning.... not every situation is the same.

My husband told me to stop thinking about these types of things ...I get too emotional. 








Daisy2714 for your words.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yep, that's exactly what people are....HUMAN.....I'd like to know how often YOU was getting laid when you judged that man?


You're right that I did (and do) judge him based on his actions. 

How much was I getting laid at the time? My wife was on her 4rd month of complete bed rest at the time (troubles during pregnancy) and it had been that long without sex in total. My co-worker? Cheating within 2 months.

I didn't cheat, and frankly and I didn't even feel tempted to. It was a combination of being more worried about her than anything and, other than work, spent all of my time at home, being with her, housework, etc, etc, etc.

And, let's face it: I knew there was a finite amount of time during which sex was off the table, so I could see light at the end of the tunnel. Being completely honest, this isn't what the man in question was facing. More hopeless for him, that's for sure.

Again, not comparing my situation to his: merely answering your question with honesty.



> I seriously find it HEARTLESS to judge these people & call them selfish so quickly.... I see them as hanging by a thread...their dreams died when their spouse get these diagnosis.
> 
> When I was a young girl, my Mother worked for a man who was saved on the Battlefield..... he had no arms and no legs, I went with her to the house a few times, I was absolutely horrified to see him sitting in that wheelchair like that..even in my young age, I felt horrible for his wife....what was lost , taken from that marriage.. .
> 
> THe Caregiver... no one thinks of them.. NOONE...and how dare anyone even suggest they have needs..


Every situation is different, and I wouldn't care to apply an overall label to everybody based upon that understanding. I didn't judge him quickly.

-In my co-workers case, I have more trouble gathering up more sympathy for him as a caretaker simply because he didn't spend an awful lot of time doing any of it. He was out most nights of the week, involved in baseball, hockey, bowling, etc. He made it no secret: his wife's diagnosis didn't impact his social life one iota.

-I sincerely understand the need for sexual release. I'm a human being, and get that totally. He didn't just seek release, though, he sought a girlfriend; somebody he could spend time with, have sex with, etc, which all meant that he was NOT there for his wife. Prostitution at a brothel is perfectly legal in that city, and he'd have had no trouble getting that. There are SO many places there, it's not even funny.

-I apply the label "selfish" to him not only because of the fact that he cheated, but because it describes him well as an overall person.

Always late for work
Always cutting out early
Always stretching breaks to much longer than time allowed
A ton of work to do? Guess who would find "busy work" to fill his day. Didn't help the overall job getting completed.

You get the idea. Before the cheating came to light (and I didn't say anything about it to our other co-workers) he was already considered to be an unreliable and self-centered man. When I met his father, the man shook my hand and introduced himself by saying "I'm nothing like my son."

I don't speak of all caretakers languishing without sex and call them selfish. I don't know what I'd do if placed in his shoes. I don't predict how I would respond; none of us can. I'd like to think I'll do better than him, but I can't make that promise. If I were to do as him, I'd have to live with the knowledge that it was selfish of me to do.

I limited my story to the man I know, and he IS a selfish guy. He was BEFORE she was sick, and he remained true to himself after her diagnosis.

Important to note: the only righteous indignation I felt towards him was when he asked where he signed up for his fate. It was a preposterous question: he agreed to it the day he was married.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sh987 said:


> *You're right that I did (and do) judge him based on his actions.
> 
> How much was I getting laid at the time? My wife was on her 4rd month of complete bed rest at the time (troubles during pregnancy) and it had been that long without sex in total. My co-worker? Cheating within 2 months*.


 Let me say something about myself here....it's not that I don't Judge... there is a reason J (for Judging) is the 4th digit on my temperament profile.... I actually have a strong sense of ethics and morality and many many things bother me tremendously when others are hurt....left as victims by cold callous people.. 

A sense of Justice/ fairness is probably the main reason I WANT to believe there is a GOD above ...to sort this mess out down here. Us humans can only do so much.

I am not necessarily a bleeding heart by any means.. I am sure I would look upon your co-worker in a similar light -given all you have shared here to his ways , his actions outside of his marital situation. 



> And, let's face it:* I knew there was a finite amount of time during which sex was off the table, so I could see light at the end of the tunnel. Being completely honest, this isn't what the man in question was facing. More hopeless for him, that's for sure.*


 This is something I wanted to bring to light on this subject....I realize this was about cheating...and I started to RUN with the trials of Caretaking...truth is.. I would not have even bothered posting here if this was a normal scenario like the husband screwing his secretary after hours with a willing faithful wife at home... that happens every day... those husbands are SCUM, bottom of the barrel .. or wives turned around being those secretaries.... while a faithful husband is being rejected at home, even if he is a Mr Nice Guy. 

I felt the finaility , the hopelessness of these situations was significant in the story. Ya know I am a worrier by nature... when a kid gets sick.. doesn't matter if they look like death, hacking like a fiend, so long as I know it's curable, anti-biotics during their magic... I don't bat an eye, it's all good.. ..but the moment I learn it is life threatening..could be permanent.... I'd suddenly turn into a questioning basketcase.. that to me is a another animal.... it's life altering somehow... 



> Every situation is different, and I wouldn't care to apply an overall label to everybody based upon that understanding. I didn't judge him quickly.


 :smthumbup:



> -In my co-workers case, I have more trouble gathering up more sympathy for him as a caretaker simply because he didn't spend an awful lot of time doing any of it. He was out most nights of the week, involved in baseball, hockey, bowling, etc. *He made it no secret: his wife's diagnosis didn't impact his social life one iota.*


 My Mother knows a man like this , in fact she says the husband only stays to get her check every month... he spends NO time with her, she is bed-ridden while he is all over town doing this own thing...there is no love there.. so yeah... this happens too.

Then here am I ... my posts are focusing on ... the Happy fulfilling marriage that has been torn in half over a diagnosis... and both are struggling with how to put what is left back together & make a life worth living. True, every situation is different. 



> -I apply the label "selfish" to him not only because of the fact that he cheated, but because it describes him well as an overall person.
> 
> Always late for work
> Always cutting out early
> ...


 Oh my goodness, that is sure telling !!! 



> I don't speak of all caretakers languishing without sex and call them selfish. *I don't know what I'd do if placed in his shoes. I don't predict how I would respond; none of us can. I'd like to think I'll do better than him, but I can't make that promise. If I were to do as him, I'd have to live with the knowledge that it was selfish of me to do.*


 I guess this is all I am trying to pull out of some of you.. 

I once talked to a woman who dealt with her dying bf.. how hard that was on her.. she held his hand while he was dying.. this was a few yrs back... I don't remember all the details now.. but she said.. you can't predict ... she tried to explain to me when something this awful happens, the strength just comes TO YOU.. . even though she too never thought she could stand during something like that. but then for others, they simply fall apart.. How can we know...it helps to have support around you... 

I have a handful of people I know who had awful situations, those type I'd rather die than live through... One wife's husband got Huntington's disease (this has to be one of the worst disease ever to come upon anyone)... known 2 women who got MS, one husband stood by her, the other divorced, and another man who got MS, wheelchair bound for the last 25 yrs.. and a young wife who left her Type 1 -on kidney dialysis husband... the 3 marriages that survived were all very Churchy people -as I see it, this was their strength....connection.. encouragement ...the 2 that left.. couldn't handle it -were not church goers.. but I am not saying this = anything either.. just out of the cases I personally know. 

I do feel one has to have some great inner strength to deal with all of this, the caretaker needs support too.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Chloesmum said:


> Thank you for the comments everyone. I wasn't even sure if I should post this. My Dad got sick when I was 7 so his illness is nearly all I remember of him. He passed away when I turned 22. I have tried for years to try as hard as I can to understand why Mum cheated, and also why she turned to alcohol after Dad became sick. I can't imagine how hard it would have been for her to deal with a terminally ill husband and a young child at the same time. She told me before she passed away that she never loved my Dad, but I know for a fact he worshipped the ground she walked on. He was a wonderful father, even in his wheelchair he would read me bedtime stories at night and was always there for me, even in illness. My Dad was my idol. I think Mum's alcoholism is the reason I'm finding it so hard to deal with my husband's alcoholism. From the time I was 7 I was taking care of Dad, then Mum when she became ill after Dad passing away, and now my own alcoholic husband. If anyone can tell me how to take care of me I'd appreciate it. This is honestly something I have never learned to do. I'm not looking for a pity party, honestly, I'm just stating the facts. Thank you all again so much for your replies, I really appreciate all the honesty.


So sorry for what you have been through. Life is very very tough for a lot of us.

It is very easy for some of us to judge, especially a parent. After all we look to them as a moral compass as we are growing up. 

I don't think most people marry telling themselves "If I'm not happy I'll just cheat."

Loneliness takes a while to creep in and can change a person. Making one ripe for temptation. It is critical to recognize triggers to temptation and have strong boundaries. I speak from experience. I have never cheated on DH but have experienced loneliness which made me easy prey for his friend to make a pass at me asking to have an affair. The man was relentless. He had the whole thing planned out. I will tell you the attention is very addicting when you are going through a valley in your own marriage and another wants to pursue you. I did struggle with an answer in my head  I didn't want to cheat on my husband but I was soooo lonely. After about a week I confessed my struggle to my husband crying my head off who was hurt but was so thankful I told him. I had remembered something I read long ago. Secrets and lies live in the dark but the truth lives in the light. We worked through it and changed some things in our marriage and it made us stronger.

My point is when I took my vows 21 years ago I had the same mentality as you but the longer one is married and are put in certain situations one can easily slip. Especially if they don't have boundaries or know triggers that can fuel an affair.

I hope you can forgive your mom. There is a book called "Forgiveness is a choice". It may help you let go of some anger. Forgiving is very, very hard to do but so healing for the one that was hurt.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

over20 said:


> I don't think most people marry telling themselves "If I'm not happy I'll just cheat."
> 
> Loneliness takes a while to creep in and can change a person. Making one ripe for temptation. It is critical to recognize triggers to temptation and have strong boundaries. I speak from experience. I have never cheated on DH but have experienced loneliness which made me easy prey for his friend to make a pass at me asking to have an affair. The man was relentless. He had the whole thing planned out. I will tell you the attention is very addicting when you are going through a valley in your own marriage and another wants to pursue you. * I did struggle with an answer in my head  I didn't want to cheat on my husband but I was soooo lonely. After about a week I confessed my struggle to my husband crying my head off who was hurt but was so thankful I told him. I had remembered something I read long ago. Secrets and lies live in the dark but the truth lives in the light. We worked through it and changed some things in our marriage and it made us stronger.*


 And you did the remedy that will take the steam out of it....when it is exposed to the LIGHT.. opened up, talking about it with our spouses, how we are feeling... what we deeply NEED...and are craving...this is very vulnerable.. but very very necessary for breaching the cracks we have let in -to tear a couple apart...

Great article here that speaks about the same as was stirring in you.....you did the RIGHT THING...
Living a High Definition, Transparent Marriage - Focus on the Family

And this one... focuses on how Secrets..they start out as an escape..but Oh the power they carry...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you SA. I know I did the right thing. 

When people male or female outright claim "I would never cheat or I hate cheater's". I see it as a sign of immaturity. All people are susceptible to outside temptation.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

over20 said:


> Thank you SA. I know I did the right thing.
> 
> When people male or female outright claim "I would never cheat or I hate cheater's". I see it as a sign of immaturity. All people are susceptible to outside temptation.


I see it as a sign of maturity and self control. I would not tolerate a cheater because I am a very mature woman that knows her worth. I would not cheat because I am a very mature woman that values good morals, love and honesty.

It really is not that difficult to be faithful.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I use to say I could never cheat but after finding out about my husbands affairs I think I could now if I met the right person. I even told him one night I would have no problem doing anything he has done. Still love him but I just don't have the loyalty for him I use to, he killed that in me. 

Your dad could have had affairs you know nothing about.


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