# Need advice on confrontation



## finallyready

I'll try to keep this short. Married to my wife for 8 years, 3 young kids. We went through a separation about 2 years ago - I got the classic I love you but not in love with you. There was someone else, but I didn't have much proof. We got back together a year ago and things have been OK - some rough times but some good times too. We've been rebuilding. 

About 6 weeks ago I noticed a shift in her behavior, a shift that I've seen before. Not interested in sex, not close, not saying I love you. One night after being rejected for sex again I started probing her about what's wrong. She said nothing is wrong - she just isn't feeling sexual. We ended up getting in a fight because I felt like she wasn't even trying to meet my needs. I could sense something was wrong so I decided to start investigating. A few weeks ago she was out to lunch for 6 hr, and she said it was a going away lunch for a guy she used to work with years ago. I was upset because she used to have a crush on this guy before we were married, but she said not to worry because his girlfriend was there and there was a large group of people. I now have evidence that this is not true, and that she was with this guy alone. She does not know that I know this.

Also, last week I was out of town and one night I was trying to reach her but she would not answer her phone or text back. Finally at the end of the night she replies and says sorry she was out with a two of her old girlfriends. This didn't feel right. She said she went to the spa for a mani/pedi and facial, and then drinks. But I now have evidence that she was at a restaurant early on, but with only one other person (found receipt in the trash), and there's no credit card transaction at a spa, and when I looked at her nails there was definitely no manicure. I questioned her and she said she only got a facial, even though she told me earlier she got a manicure, pedicure and facial. So at this point I'm on full alert because of the two lies about being with 2 other girlfriends and about the manicure. Clearly something is up. I won't say how I know, but I suspicion and some evidence that she went to a hotel after dinner. Again, she doens't know that I know this much.

So a couple nights ago i couldn't take the awkward silence and ignoring anymore so I started the conversation. I got the I love you but not in love with you speech again, and we started discussing potential divorce. I asked if there was anyone else and explained that I'm not an idiot, that I sense it and I know her behavior in this situation since I've been through it before. She denied. I left it at that.

What do I do now? Should I quickly file for divorce? Should I present evidence that I have or just keep it to myself and move on? I also have more evidence coming.


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## Rottdad42

Red flags, yep, evidence to the contrary meaning receipts, that's helpful. Helps bust a lie if there is a question about time and place. Big one for me is the "Ole Gut Syndrome" OGS for short. Trust that bad boy, unless you are already paranoid j/k. Myself I would wait for the next time, have a friend, a good one who can keep their mouth shut. Follow her as best they can. Better if a P.I. if funds are a problem then the friend thing. Others have better info. You will get it here.


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## Chaparral

Is the other man married?


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## Chaparral

She has joined the ranks of a serial cheater now. That means she is fundamentally broken.


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## Sbrown

I'd var (voice activated recorder) her car along with a gps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finallyready

Sbrown said:


> I'd var (voice activated recorder) her car along with a gps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Already have done some of that. That's how I know so much. Still need more though. But how do I confront when I have the smoking gun? Do I present it to her or just give her divorce papers and tell her I know she's lying and I can no longer tolerate it? What will be more impactful?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Sbrown said:


> I'd var (voice activated recorder) her car along with a gps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


File for divorce and go for full custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

Collect more evidence, the phone records and texts if possible. PI is a good option. File for D. When she is served, expose the evidence to all- family, friends, office mates.


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## finallyready

Chaparral said:


> She has joined the ranks of a serial cheater now. That means she is fundamentally broken.


I think you're right. I handled our previous separation wrong. I was devastated and was trying anything to get her back, which ultimately enabled her behavior. I had moved on after the first 10 months apart. Started dating good women, living life. But when she came calling I didn't put up much of a fight. I broke things off with the new woman I was with and got back with my wife. Figured it was worth a shot. Unfortunately I realize now that I didn't re establish proper boundaries. I was weak, and that probably led to her feeling it was ok to do it all over again. Any advice on how to handle things this time around. I know I need to divorce her, but easier said than done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finallyready

WhiteRaven said:


> Collect more evidence, the phone records and texts if possible. PI is a good option. File for D. When she is served, expose the evidence to all- family, friends, office mates.


Phone records won't work. That's what I used the first time around so she's wise to it. I suspect Facebook or a secret email. Her phone is fully guarded at all times, even takes into the bathroom when she showers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> I think you're right. I handled our previous separation wrong. I was devastated and was trying anything to get her back, which ultimately enabled her behavior. I had moved on after the first 10 months apart. Started dating good women, living life. But when she came calling I didn't put up much of a fight. I broke things off with the new woman I was with and got back with my wife. Figured it was worth a shot. Unfortunately I realize now that I didn't re establish proper boundaries. I was weak, and that probably led to her feeling it was ok to do it all over again. Any advice on how to handle things this time around. I know I need to divorce her, but easier said than done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The key to a good D is 180. Don't engage her. Stop caring about her tears, her apologies, her excuses. Start thinking when I get out of this prison, I can start my life afresh.


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> Phone records won't work. That's what I used the first time around so she's wise to it. I suspect Facebook or a secret email. Her phone is fully guarded at all times, even takes into the bathroom when she showers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Invite family and then snatch the phone out of her hands. Let her scream and shout. Do use a VAR. When family's around, she can't go all crazy on you. Tell her - password or divorce - in front of everyone. Don't back down. She will use the privacy logic. Simply say in marriage no privacy. Explain to the family she is cheating and you are sick and tired of it. It worked for me.


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## Chaparral

WhiteRaven said:


> Invite family and then snatch the phone out of her hands. Let her scream and shout. Do use a VAR. When family's around, she can't go all crazy on you. Tell her - password or divorce - in front of everyone. Don't back down. She will use the privacy logic. Simply say in marriage no privacy. Explain to the family she is cheating and you are sick and tired of it. It worked for me.


If its not a work phone, go into the bathroom, take the phone to the phone store and get them to open it. Some phones can be opened by calling it.


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## 6301

finallyready said:


> Already have done some of that. That's how I know so much. Still need more though. But how do I confront when I have the smoking gun? Do I present it to her or just give her divorce papers and tell her I know she's lying and I can no longer tolerate it? What will be more impactful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 If you have the smoking gun, then shoot it. Does she work? If she does, then file and have her served at work where she'll get the full impact of her infidelity. Then you let her friends and family know. If the guys is married, then you contact his wife and inform her of her husbands activities and let her deal with him. 

Most of all, if you melted and took her back once and she's doing this, then this time you better get some steel in your backbone and don't bend to her whims. Look what happened the last time.


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## anchorwatch

This might help...
A guide to confronting your wayward spouse

Have a plan when she makes a choice?

Miss Taken compiled some good resources that could be of use here...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/176962-useful-threads-resources-tam-web.html


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## WhiteRaven

Chaparral said:


> If its not a work phone, go into the bathroom, take the phone to the phone store and get them to open it. Some phones can be opened by calling it.


It's very likely if he can create such a scenario, the family will make her hand over the password. Both your and her family should be there. 

In my case, my xWW has protecting the phone like Gollum was protecting the ring. I checked the phone records and there were 1200 texts in a month to the OM's no. I didn't know what to do and stewed in my own anger for a week. On Sunday I decided this is enough. I placed a call to both our families calling them for a dinner on wednesday, the busiest day in her work schedule. She hated figures and on wednesday, she had to send a weekly report. When everyone gathered on wednesday and she was standing talking to her parents, I snatched the cell from her hands. She become hysterical trying to get it back. Her family intervened asking if she has gone crazy. She started crying immediately. I started telling them the whole story. She kept denying, calling me crazy and accusing me of interfering with her privacy. I told her it that I'm crazy. Say the password and everyone can see what's inside else prepare to get served with D for adultery. Her family became frantic and started pressurizing her for the password. After an hour, she gave her password. At first I backed up all the data and then started reading the texts aloud. All mushy, romantic texts to the OM. It sickened me. I was crying but still reading them aloud. She was crying, begging me to stop. Still I went on for another 15 min.Then I asked her parents to take away their daughter and said I'm filing for D. They took her to their place that night. 2 days later, she resigned from her job and was she was lying at my feet, begging me to take her back.

It was a mistake to take her back which I committed.


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## tacoma

finallyready said:


> Already have done some of that. That's how I know so much. Still need more though. But how do I confront when I have the smoking gun? Do I present it to her or just give her divorce papers and tell her I know she's lying and I can no longer tolerate it? What will be more impactful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you have evidence that completely satisfies you have her served divorce papers.

I'd contact a lawyer now and have them drawn up and held until you tell him to serve them.

If the new evidence you gain informs you of who the OM is I'd inform any SO he has of what he's doing the same day you serve her.

This will have the strongest impact on her.

She will be losing her husband and lover within the span of a couple of hours while being publicly outed to her co-workers all simultaneously.

This should leave her emotionally unstable, confused and scared.
She Should be pretty malleable at that time.


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## Acabado

WhiteRaven said:


> It's very likely if he can create such a scenario, the family will make her hand over the password. Both your and her family should be there.
> 
> In my case, my xWW has protecting the phone like Gollum was protecting the ring. I checked the phone records and there were 1200 texts in a month to the OM's no. I didn't know what to do and stewed in my own anger for a week. On Sunday I decided this is enough. I placed a call to both our families calling them for a dinner on wednesday, the busiest day in her work schedule. She hated figures and on wednesday, she had to send a weekly report. When everyone gathered on wednesday and she was standing talking to her parents, I snatched the cell from her hands. She become hysterical trying to get it back. Her family intervened asking if she has gone crazy. She started crying immediately. I started telling them the whole story. She kept denying, calling me crazy and accusing me of interfering with her privacy. I told her it that I'm crazy. Say the password and everyone can see what's inside else prepare to get served with D for adultery. Her family became frantic and started pressurizing her for the password. After an hour, she gave her password. At first I backed up all the data and then started reading the texts aloud. All mushy, romantic texts to the OM. It sickened me. I was crying but still reading them aloud. She was crying, begging me to stop. Still I went on for another 15 min.Then I asked her parents to take away their daughter and said I'm filing for D. They took her to their place that night. 2 days later, she resigned from her job and was she was lying at my feet, begging me to take her back.
> 
> It was a mistake to take her back which I committed.


Epic confrontation!!!


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## finallyready

Acabado said:


> Epic confrontation!!!


Wow. Definitely epic. I think I'm struggling with the guilt of spying. I feel like its wrong, even though I am justified in doing so. I'm hesitant to show her VAR evidence because of this. I'll get prepared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> Wow. Definitely epic. I think I'm struggling with the guilt of spying. I feel like its wrong, even though I am justified in doing so. I'm hesitant to show her VAR evidence because of this. I'll get prepared.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why should you feel guilty of spying? If she didn't step out of her marriage, would you have done the same? Let me ask you a question - If you are deployed in Afghanistan and a bearded guy shoots at you, should you feel guilty that you have to shoot back to protect yourself? Believe me, it isn't a marriage anymore, it's a war. You are being disrespected every moment in this marriage. Tell me you deserve this treatment. 

NEVER show her the VAR. Get into the phone records by any means. And please, don't take her back. EVER again. She is not something you can fix.


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## treyvion

tacoma said:


> When you have evidence that completely satisfies you have her served divorce papers.
> 
> I'd contact a lawyer now and have them drawn up and held until you tell him to serve them.
> 
> If the new evidence you gain informs you of who the OM is I'd inform any SO he has of what he's doing the same day you serve her.
> 
> This will have the strongest impact on her.
> 
> She will be losing her husband and lover within the span of a couple of hours while being publicly outed to her co-workers all simultaneously.
> 
> This should leave her emotionally unstable, confused and scared.
> She Should be pretty malleable at that time.


Nothing to mold. You let em alone for 2 or 3 years while life finishes smaking them. Depending on which way they chose to go in life, they may be a better person, but they also may become a worse person.


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## finallyready

WhiteRaven said:


> Why should you feel guilty of spying? If she didn't step out of her marriage, would you have done the same? Let me ask you a question - If you are deployed in Afghanistan and a bearded guy shoots at you, should you feel guilty that you have to shoot back to protect yourself? Believe me, it isn't a marriage anymore, it's a war. You are being disrespected every moment in this marriage. Tell me you deserve this treatment.
> 
> NEVER show her the VAR. Get into the phone records by any means. And please, don't take her back. EVER again. She is not something you can fix.


Thank you WhiteRaven. The advice is helpful. I will keep posting progress and anything else I discover. I plan to divorce her. Won't be easy because unfortunately I love her and life will change dramatically for my little girls. I have made a very good living and have provided them with a great life. I'm smart enough to know the right course of action. Just need to prepare and hold strong. Although she's not interested in me anyway, so the idea of divorce is not likely to be a big deal for her. During our first separation she realized she made a mistake and came crawling back. I won't let this happen again. I've already told her that separation is not an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123

All she learned is you will take her back. You are plan B and plan B never becomes plan A.

Step up for yourself.


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> Thank you WhiteRaven. The advice is helpful. I will keep posting progress and anything else I discover. I plan to divorce her. Won't be easy because unfortunately I love her and life will change dramatically for my little girls. I have made a very good living and have provided them with a great life. I'm smart enough to know the right course of action. Just need to prepare and hold strong. Although she's not interested in me anyway, so the idea of divorce is not likely to be a big deal for her. During our first separation she realized she made a mistake and came crawling back. I won't let this happen again. I've already told her that separation is not an option.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love is not the most important thing. Trust is. We Americans love our ARs but trust in Rusky AKs if SHTF happens. Why? They are crude, ugly, have minute of barn accuracy but works everytime and when your life depends on it. 

It's no shame in admitting you love your WW. But your little angels need a daddy who can take tough decisions and later on beat up mean bfs. Start toughening up by D now.


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## warlock07

finallyready said:


> Wow. Definitely epic. I think I'm struggling with the guilt of spying. I feel like its wrong, even though I am justified in doing so. I'm hesitant to show her VAR evidence because of this. I'll get prepared.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How else do you catch a cheater ? You should probably feel guilty if your snooping found out nothing....What you are finding out uis exactly why you snooped in the first place.

Do you have a home pc?


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## finallyready

warlock07 said:


> How else do you catch a cheater ? You should probably feel guilty if your snooping found out nothing....What you are finding out uis exactly why you snooped in the first place.
> 
> Do you have a home pc?


We both have our own laptops. She is protective of that too. Trust me, she is smart about this stuff. I did manage to get into her phone for about one minute the other day (she left it unlocked while we were out with the kids and walked away for a few minutes). I found very little. She's smart enough to know I may figure out her password so she proactively deletes messages. And it's an iPhone so she can iMessage all she wants without generating text records.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

Use a PI.


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## larry.gray

Ask yourself if you need proof? If you got the ILYBNILWY, that can be enough.


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## jim123

larry.gray said:


> Ask yourself if you need proof? If you got the ILYBNILWY, that can be enough.


Here you go. Do you know that people actually confronted prior to cell phones, VAR's and emails. Mine was the case. Do not live like this. I do not know why people need so much proof.

The marriage is not working, that should be enough. Force the issue. Start a new better life one way or the other.


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## adriana

finallyready said:


> Already have done some of that. That's how I know so much. Still need more though. But how do I confront when I have the smoking gun? Do I present it to her or just give her divorce papers and tell her I know she's lying and I can no longer tolerate it? What will be more impactful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Having her served with divorce papers and saying nothing will always have greater impact than any other option. But very few people have enough self-control to actually do it. Most opt for raw drama.


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## finallyready

jim123 said:


> Here you go. Do you know that people actually confronted prior to cell phones, VAR's and emails. Mine was the case. Do not live like this. I do not know why people need so much proof.
> 
> The marriage is not working, that should be enough. Force the issue. Start a new better life one way or the other.


You're absolutely right. I am self aware, and I realize I really just want to see her beg and plead and suffer. It's probably common psychology for men in my situation to want this. I know that is unlikely to happen based on the experiences of so many others on this site. I guess I really just want to feel like I am absolutely certain before making such a bold move, but it's not a requirement. If she doesn't want the life I give her or she thinks I am the source of her unhappiness then **** her. She'll find out if she's right, but it will be too late.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray

finallyready said:


> You're absolutely right. I am self aware, and I realize I really just want to see her beg and plead and suffer. It's probably common psychology for men in my situation to want this. I know that is unlikely to happen based on the experiences of so many others on this site. I guess I really just want to feel like I am absolutely certain before making such a bold move, but it's not a requirement. If she doesn't want the life I give her or she thinks I am the source of her unhappiness then **** her. She'll find out if she's right, but it will be too late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, even with perfect proof she may still deny. I most certainly understand the allure of getting her to admit, grovel and beg for forgiveness. But even with proof right in front of her, she just may deny still.


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## jim123

finallyready said:


> You're absolutely right. I am self aware, and I realize I really just want to see her beg and plead and suffer. It's probably common psychology for men in my situation to want this. I know that is unlikely to happen based on the experiences of so many others on this site. I guess I really just want to feel like I am absolutely certain before making such a bold move, but it's not a requirement. If she doesn't want the life I give her or she thinks I am the source of her unhappiness then **** her. She'll find out if she's right, but it will be too late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You are on the mark. Do what is best for you. Keep doing the same thing you will get the same result. You have to start to heal and the only way to do that is to end the pain.


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## weightlifter

Ill do my standard evidence gathering post when i get back... Diff computer.

Im kind of head 007 here.

What state? It makes a difference.

Above all stop asking her about it!!!


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## weightlifter

Good Proof usually gets some kind of confession. Not necessarily remorse.


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## thummper

finallyready said:


> You're absolutely right. I am self aware, and *I realize I really just want to see her beg and plead and suffer. * It's probably common psychology for men in my situation to want this. I know that is unlikely to happen based on the experiences of so many others on this site. I guess I really just want to feel like I am absolutely certain before making such a bold move, but it's not a requirement. If she doesn't want the life I give her or she thinks I am the source of her unhappiness then **** her. She'll find out if she's right, but it will be too late.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Makes a nice mental image doesn't it!  I've heard this a lot here and on other sites. The wife chucks it all to "follow her heart" because "he's my soulmate" *long, wishful sigh* then the next thing you know, they're contacting the BH and begging to come back because they've made "a horrible mistake, and I just didn't realize how much I really loved you! yadda, yadda, yadda" (Cue the crying, sobbing, and pleading and soulful background music.) To quote Henry Higgins from My Fair Lady, "How simply dreadful. How humiliating. How delightful.!"


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## finallyready

weightlifter said:


> Ill do my standard evidence gathering post when i get back... Diff computer.
> 
> Im kind of head 007 here.
> 
> What state? It makes a difference.
> 
> Above all stop asking her about it!!!


Looking forward to your advice weightlifter. I'm in a no fault state so evidence won't make a difference to a judge. It's more for my own personal comfort, so I can move forward knowing that I wasn't crazy; that I was not at fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Have you figured out who the om is?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

You do realize that the reason your WS crawled back to you that last time was her dream world fell apart and you were all she had left.

Don't make the same mistake twice.


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## Rugs

jim123 said:


> Here you go. Do you know that people actually confronted prior to cell phones, VAR's and emails. Mine was the case. Do not live like this. I do not know why people need so much proof.
> 
> The marriage is not working, that should be enough. Force the issue. Start a new better life one way or the other.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## weightlifter

standard evidence post. The most important thing is to play dumb husband for a bit.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## Rugs

Why do you need proof of an affair if your wife acts this way towards you?

This sounds like a very cold and lonely marriage.

Save yourself the trouble.


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## weightlifter

Little time tonight. Ill have more for you tomorrow.
WL


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## finallyready

weightlifter said:


> Little time tonight. Ill have more for you tomorrow.
> WL


Is Audacity capable of filtering noise in the foreground? I have something that seems important but is difficult to decipher because kids are playing loud. Any way to dampen the sounds of the kids so I can hear the background conversation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister

Chaparral said:


> She has joined the ranks of a serial cheater now. That means she is fundamentally broken.


OP read the above.

Plus at this point I think you know what you have to do. Sorry man but she is damaged goods.

If you have no children consider it a blessing.


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## LongWalk

Finally,

You have already gone through this before, so there is no need to gather evidence. Adriana is right on. On your best way to take control of the situation is to serve her the divorce papers. You had a VAR before. You certainly can pick one up an put it in her car or in a room in the house that she wil call from, probably the kitchen or wherever she has her laptop plugged in.

The essential element here is your wife's lack of desire for you. You probably train and are in good shape. You make a decent living. You could so more MMSLP stuff but why pour yourself endlessly into the cold maw of this dead relationship.

Have you always felt that your wife is good looking and that you did better than reckoned you would? She clearly feels her sex ranking is higher and she is bored.

Sadly, despite your wife's outward pride, she slept with her boss before. That was not something that lifted her self esteem. Her boss did not want a LTR with her, just some nookie on the side. When she is with you because your standard of living is high, she probably feels like she is selling herself to have that. For some people marriage is a kind of prostitution, or at least a deal without a good emotional foundation.

Since you know divorcing will not cause her pain. Do not expose yourself by seeking to win her back. It is not going to happen. You were single for 10 months. 

Do you regret breaking it off with the other woman?


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## finallyready

LongWalk said:


> Finally,
> 
> You have already gone through this before, so there is not need to gather evidence. Adriana is right on. On your best way to take control of the situation is to serve her the divorce papers. You had a VAR before. You certainly can pick one up an put it in her car or in a room in the house that she wil call from, probably the kitchen or wherever she has her laptop plugged in.
> 
> The essential element here is your wife's lack of desire for you. You probably train and are in good shape. You make a decent living. You could so more MMSLP stuff but why pour yourself endlessly into the cold maw of this dead relationship.
> 
> Have you always felt that your wife is good looking and that you did better than reckoned you would? She clearly feels her sex ranking is higher and she is bored.
> 
> Sadly, despite your wife's outward pride, she slept with her boss before. That was not something that lifted her self esteem. Her boss did not want a LTR with her, just some nookie on the side. When she is with you because your standard of living is high, she probably feels like she is selling herself to have that. For some people marriage is a kind of prostitution, or at least a deal without a good emotional foundation.
> 
> Since you know divorcing will not cause her pain. Do not expose yourself by seeking to win her back. It is not going to happen. You were single for 10 months.
> 
> Do you regret breaking it off with the other woman?


No I do not regret breaking it off with the other woman. My wife was very convincing that she learned from her prior mistakes. It was an opportunity to have my family back, and I clearly loved my wife much more than the new woman. Perhaps I'd be better off if I stayed with the new woman, but to me it was worth a shot. At least I can always look my kids in the eye knowing I did everything possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Really two vars as I outlined. One in house where she chats with friends and one in car as described. My icon IS an ICDPX312 which I hear is rare and being phased out so go for the ICDPX333.

SONY SONY SONY no I dont work for them. 
44k bit rate is a MUST.
VOR on
Meeting mode.


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## ArmyofJuan

Yea this isn't a court of law so you don't have to convince a jury she is cheating, only yourself.

Want to see her beg and plead, slap her in the face with the D papers and tell her you don't want anything to do with her ever again. Nobody likes rejection (even if that's what she says she wants) so she will not expect you to take the lead to D her.

That being said she hasn't given you any real choice, if you try to R you invite more cheating since you basically would be saying you will put up with it. 

You gave her a second chance, she blew it so you do what you have to do.


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## weightlifter

Ive written 5 confronts for OPs. 4 worked.
The more facts and points you can find in evidence the more chances to break the will of the wayward to resist.


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## turnera

finallyready said:


> I know I need to divorce her, but easier said than done.


Why?


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## finallyready

turnera said:


> Why?


You're right. I need to shift away from the mindset that it will be hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finallyready

finallyready said:


> I'll try to keep this short. Married to my wife for 8 years, 3 young kids. We went through a separation about 2 years ago - I got the classic I love you but not in love with you. There was someone else, but I didn't have much proof. We got back together a year ago and things have been OK - some rough times but some good times too. We've been rebuilding.
> 
> About 6 weeks ago I noticed a shift in her behavior, a shift that I've seen before. Not interested in sex, not close, not saying I love you. One night after being rejected for sex again I started probing her about what's wrong. She said nothing is wrong - she just isn't feeling sexual. We ended up getting in a fight because I felt like she wasn't even trying to meet my needs. I could sense something was wrong so I decided to start investigating. A few weeks ago she was out to lunch for 6 hr, and she said it was a going away lunch for a guy she used to work with years ago. I was upset because she used to have a crush on this guy before we were married, but she said not to worry because his girlfriend was there and there was a large group of people. I now have evidence that this is not true, and that she was with this guy alone. She does not know that I know this.
> 
> Also, last week I was out of town and one night I was trying to reach her but she would not answer her phone or text back. Finally at the end of the night she replies and says sorry she was out with a two of her old girlfriends. This didn't feel right. She said she went to the spa for a mani/pedi and facial, and then drinks. But I now have evidence that she was at a restaurant early on, but with only one other person (found receipt in the trash), and there's no credit card transaction at a spa, and when I looked at her nails there was definitely no manicure. I questioned her and she said she only got a facial, even though she told me earlier she got a manicure, pedicure and facial. So at this point I'm on full alert because of the two lies about being with 2 other girlfriends and about the manicure. Clearly something is up. I won't say how I know, but I suspicion and some evidence that she went to a hotel after dinner. Again, she doens't know that I know this much.
> 
> So a couple nights ago i couldn't take the awkward silence and ignoring anymore so I started the conversation. I got the I love you but not in love with you speech again, and we started discussing potential divorce. I asked if there was anyone else and explained that I'm not an idiot, that I sense it and I know her behavior in this situation since I've been through it before. She denied. I left it at that.
> 
> What do I do now? Should I quickly file for divorce? Should I present evidence that I have or just keep it to myself and move on? I also have more evidence coming.


Today has been a rough day. I wanted evidence and I sure got my wish. VAR in her car and it recorded her meeting and having sex in the car with a guy from our past. He was one of my best friends 15 years ago. My wife (girlfriend at the time) broke up for a few weeks and he pursued her. That was the end of our friendship. They had been in contact over the years but I didn't get too worked up over it. I am in shock. That was so painful to listen to. I'm looking for advice on next steps. Obviously I don't need to keep spying - I found what I was looking for. I want to play this right. Do I blow this up in my wife's face right away? I don't know how long I can hold it in! This guy is engaged. I want to contact his fiancée but can't find anything on her. All I know is her name. Should I hire a PI to find her? I want to be patient and not tell my wife I know until I can expose but it will be hard not to explode on her. Doing my best though. Help me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> Today has been a rough day. I wanted evidence and I sure got my wish. VAR in her car and it recorded her meeting and having sex in the car with a guy from our past. He was one of my best friends 15 years ago. My wife (girlfriend at the time) broke up for a few weeks and he pursued her. That was the end of our friendship. They had been in contact over the years but I didn't get too worked up over it. I am in shock. That was so painful to listen to. I'm looking for advice on next steps. Obviously I don't need to keep spying - I found what I was looking for. I want to play this right. Do I blow this up in my wife's face right away? I don't know how long I can hold it in! This guy is engaged. I want to contact his fiancée but can't find anything on her. All I know is her name. Should I hire a PI to find her? I want to be patient and not tell my wife I know until I can expose but it will be hard not to explode on her. Doing my best though. Help me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hire a PI. Let the fiancee listen to the VAR recording. Ruin the guy's wedding. Also file for D and inform all friends and family but not her that you know. Let your WW know from others that you know about the A.


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## jack.c

Dont say nothing to her, go 180 and start seperating all financial things.
Talk to a lawyer and get the D. papers ready to get signed, then organize all the proof you have and only inform his fiance, tell your WW that all will be exposed if she will not sign. Then kick her axx out the house. And this is just a start


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## honcho

Hire an attorney on Monday, get papers drawn up and file. You already should have done that as soon as you got the I don’t love you speech. Have her served at work and start to be done with her. When she comes home, have a bag packed for her at the door. 

For as much as we want the “moment of truth” and the breakdown when confronted with evidence people rarely get it, at least at first. The first confrontation all you will hear are all sorts of blame shifting and nonsense. She will do whatever she can to make you feel guilty for the situation and you have already been down this road once with her. 

In nearly every state, the evidence doesn’t really do you any legal benefit. The OM fiancé you have time to find out who she is and tell her and I have a feeling once you file and your wife is free the fiancé will find out quickly anyway. Your first concern is your life and wellbeing.


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## the guy

It might be time to distance your self and have a "business trip" to take.

Get out for a few days and and get your head straight....BTW .... the shaking goes away, and so does the stomach pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry

Go see your doctor, get a check up. Tell him what's going on, and be completely honest. Get tested for stds. Get a lawyer and get the legal process started. Start shutting down and separating your finances. She can pay for her own stuff if she isn't already. Find yourself an I C to talk about this crap with. Get getting past the affair by Snyderman, and living and loving after betrayal by Stosny.

You likely cannot throw her out of the house, but you can bet I would get an external lockset to put on the bedroom door, and then remove all her stuff from it. Carry a VAR on you at all times when you are around her. Accept that it's over. Detach. Stay calm, don't get upset, or get drawn into anything she tries to start up. Basically I'd consider her dead, and focus on your kids. No point in fighting about the betrayal, it's done, she's a piece of ****, your kids need you, that's it.


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## SadandAngry

Save your evidence somewhere safe, preferably where she has no chance of getting at it. Don't obsess about getting even, or getting mad, but at some point, you'll figure out who the fiancé is, and you can give her a copy of the recording, she ought to know.


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## the guy

Make a few copies of the recording, you may want to pass them out to folks who start to make you out to be the bad guy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Save the recording as an audio file and send the link to OM fiance.

File for divorce. Tell your wife a private detective recorded her having sex in the car. Don't reveal how you know.


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## WhiteRaven

You want to really hurt the POSOM? Go for his fiancee.


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## finallyready

WhiteRaven said:


> You want to really hurt the POSOM? Go for his fiancee.


Haha. I should. So I filled out divorce paperwork this morning. Planning on handing it to her tonight after the kids go to bed. I'm going to try not to reveal too much about how I know what I know, but I like the suggestion to tell her a PI was watching her and recorded it. I expect her to get angry with me and deny everything. I don't expect her to be shocked out of the affair. She is in love with him and is probably hoping that they can be together. Should be interesting how this all plays out over the coming months. During part of the recorded conversation she mentions divorcing me to OM and he was basically saying "maybe you shouldn't divorce. Maybe you should just cohabitate" (I.e uh oh if she gets divorced she's going to want to be with me for real!). I am still struggling to find a phone number for OMs fiancé. She doesn't seem to have a Facebook account. I did pay for a people search online and have a couple potential addresses. If I have to knock on the door I will! I plan to destroy this guys relationship and wedding. I hope he is very much in love with his fiancé so it hurts real bad. I also hope he has thousands of dollars tied up in nonrefundable deposits for wedding stuff. My only fear is that his fiancé is a rugsweeper (like so many). She may choose not to believe me despite recorded proof. But if that's the case I can live knowing that a seed of doubt has been planted in that relationship and that eventually it will all come tumbling down. I expect that breaking them up will throw my wife and this guy into each other's arms - I hope it does. These two sociopath dirtbags deserve each other. 

Am I obsessing? Too focused on revenge? Honestly please tell me if you think I'm going to car with anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> Am I obsessing? Too focused on revenge? Honestly please tell me if you think I'm going to car with anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too focused on revenge? You haven't yet done anything brother.

You want evil ideas, pm me.


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## Tobyboy

WhiteRaven said:


> Too focused on revenge? You haven't yet done anything brother.
> 
> You want evil ideas, pm me.


or me!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Gah. I take it this is the one time i dont post the whole thing with the do not listen to sex part...
Sorry.


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## farsidejunky

Wow brother. Showing resolve and nuts in the face of a really ****ty situation. Hats off to you.


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## warlock07

finallyready said:


> Today has been a rough day. I wanted evidence and I sure got my wish. VAR in her car and it recorded her meeting and having sex in the car with a guy from our past. He was one of my best friends 15 years ago. My wife (girlfriend at the time) broke up for a few weeks and he pursued her. That was the end of our friendship. They had been in contact over the years but I didn't get too worked up over it. I am in shock. That was so painful to listen to. I'm looking for advice on next steps. Obviously I don't need to keep spying - I found what I was looking for. I want to play this right. Do I blow this up in my wife's face right away? I don't know how long I can hold it in! This guy is engaged. I want to contact his fiancée but can't find anything on her. All I know is her name. Should I hire a PI to find her? I want to be patient and not tell my wife I know until I can expose but it will be hard not to explode on her. Doing my best though. Help me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stuff of nightmares. 

Talk to a lawyer before you do the exposure stuff.

Move out temporarily if you have to.


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## warlock07

Do you know the fiance's name ?

Make sure you don't act violent or blow up during the divorce confrontation. You don't want any DV charges against you now. She will probably try to instigate you. Don't try to argue or reason it out . Don't expect her to act apologetic.


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## farsidejunky

Also at this point I would keep the VAR on you for any possible interaction to mitigate that risk.


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## Stevenj

Whoooaaa. Find out when the wedding is and play the tape on the loud speaker during the ceremony or type up the transcript and pass out at the door.


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## finallyready

Stevenj said:


> Whoooaaa. Find out when the wedding is and play the tape on the loud speaker during the ceremony or type up the transcript and pass out at the door.


Great idea. If it's soon I might still be pissed enough to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry

Look, I know the revenge fantasies are running amok, and they seem like a good idea, and as if it would feel soooooo good to get back at them both.

Truth is, nothing will change, and you might jeopardize your standing legally. Don't do anything that might even border on stupidity until you've discussed your situation with a lawyer.

When you confront, DO NOT REVEAL WHAT YOY KNOW, AND FOR DAMN SURE DON'T EVEN HINT AT HOW YOU KNOW IT! All you need to say is "I know enough, we are done, period." And leave it at that. Even if you want your marriage to recover , you can't let this go without severe consequences. You know that. The pain of staying the same would have to overwhelm the cost of changing for her to actually face up to her crap.

Just detach. Don't get emotional around her. Suppress it until she's gone, and you can vent. This will give you the upper hand going forward. You will be better off in the not too distant future, when she is no longer your problem.


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## Affaircare

I would say not to show her the divorce papers this weekend because all you'd be doing is showing her your hand and alerting her to what you plan to do. This gives her time to "get ready.' 

I say, in order:

1) Go to your bank Monday morning and separate your finances. Open your own savings account that she can not get into, your own checking account, and make sure your house and car payment are transferred to your new account. Do not tell her you are doing this--just do it. 

2) Contact an attorney make sure the divorce papers are filed properly. You are going to want to file Petitioner/Defendant so you can not serve her the papers. 

3) Rent a storage space, pay for it for 3 months, and put all her stuff into it. You may not legally be able to "kick her out" if her name is on the title or mortgage, but there's no reason she can't at least go to a friend's or sleep on someone else's couch while the legalities grind on, and removing her "things" may be a very realistic wake up call to her what she is losing for a guy who is "about to be married" and is essentially just into her pants.

3) Get a doctor appointment to be tested for STDs. Do this Monday morning 9am.

4) Contact all your bills and change them to your new bank account, and anything for which you are paying for her...you drop/close that account. You paying her cell phone bill? Time for her to take care of her own finances if she wants another man! DO NOT pay for her infidelity. Hey it's a free country--if she wants to cheat she is free to do so, but the PRICE of that choice is that she has to pay her own way!

6) Contact your family and life-long friends, and let them know what is happening. Some may be shocked and need some bit of "proof" but the goal here is not to embarrass or drag her name through the mud (her actions did that...not you telling the truth). Rather the goal is for you to inform family and friends who can help you, support you and encourage you. You MAY want to tell your immediate boss if you think your productivity at work may suffer ... just so s/he knows "what's up." After that, you may want to inform anyone who's likely to be affected like her family, her siblings...but don't expect them to jump on your bandwagon. She likely has spun her story about you neglecting her etc. and at time blood is thicker than water. So be selective who you tell, but do NOT be afraid to tell the truth. The TRUTH is just shining the light on what she's been hiding--the fact that her actions are UGLY is her issue, not yours.


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## finallyready

SadandAngry said:


> Look, I know the revenge fantasies are running amok, and they seem like a good idea, and as if it would feel soooooo good to get back at them both.
> 
> Truth is, nothing will change, and you might jeopardize your standing legally. Don't do anything that might even border on stupidity until you've discussed your situation with a lawyer.
> 
> When you confront, DO NOT REVEAL WHAT YOY KNOW, AND FOR DAMN SURE DON'T EVEN HINT AT HOW YOU KNOW IT! All you need to say is "I know enough, we are done, period." And leave it at that. Even if you want your marriage to recover , you can't let this go without severe consequences. You know that. The pain of staying the same would have to overwhelm the cost of changing for her to actually face up to her crap
> 
> Just detach. Don't get emotional around her. Suppress it until she's gone, and you can vent. This will give you the upper hand going forward. You will be better off in the not too distant future, when she is no longer your problem.


Thank you for the advice. I know in my heart that you're right. But do I have the willpower to constrain myself like this?! At a minimum I think the OMs fiancé needs to know that she's about to make a huge mistake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rottdad42

Once, twice, three times a cheater. Brother do not spend one more day on this exhausting, disgusting behavior. I say those words because that's what it is. What is is even worse is that you have three kids, who have to hear this story, eventually and it will break your heart when you do. She doesn't care about you, that's a fact. Who does this, twice and figures your spineless enough to take her back. She guesses you are a door mat. She guessed wrong. Good luck to you in your endeavor this will not be easy. Make sure you do the 180 to a tee. Don't let her wiggle in a pinch. Drop her like a virus and go find that person who at a minimum, gives a damn about you and won't break your heart.


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## turnera

finallyready said:


> I want to contact his fiancée but can't find anything on her. All I know is her name. Should I hire a PI to find her? I want to be patient and not tell my wife I know until I can expose but it will be hard not to explode on her. Doing my best though. Help me!


First, tell her that you are sick, fake it for as many days as you need to set this up; that way you don't have to deal with her. Second, if you can afford it, pay to find the fiancée and get ready to inform her. Third, what is your goal? To reconcile if she stops cheating or to divorce her?


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## Rugs

Trust me, you're doing the OP's fiancé a HUGE favor. It's up to her what she wants to do with it.


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## turnera

finallyready said:


> My only fear is that his fiancé is a rugsweeper (like so many). She may choose not to believe me despite recorded proof. But if that's the case I can live knowing that a seed of doubt has been planted in that relationship and that eventually it will all come tumbling down.


Ok, I see you're divorcing. So here is what I'd be doing in your situation. First, I would write out an exposure letter to lesser important people and have it ready with emails, to hit send - including OM's parents and siblings and his fiancé. Second, I would go to my lawyer and tell him to put a halt to all finances until the divorce is settled so she can't drain our accounts and I would have him draw up everything I need so that as soon as I say go, she is OUT OF MY HOUSE; kids stay here. If that requires 'extorting' her by threatening to expose her in public to get her to agree to it, fine. Third, I would have all her family's phone numbers written down on a piece of paper so I can sit down and call them all within 30 minutes. Fourth, I would arrange to have the kids away at my folks' house or wherever they can go for the night. Fifth, I'd get a suitcase and pack up her essentials and have it waiting by the door and a minute before she gets home I'd call her folks and tell her you're having a fight and asking her to spend the night with them (so they don't have time to call her). Sixth, I'd sit and wait for her to get home as soon as the kids are gone and I'd be sitting at the kitchen table, divorce papers in hand, waiting for her. Seventh, I'd confront her, recording it, show her the suitcase, tell her her folks are waiting for her, and tell her to get the hell out. Eighth, as soon as she's gone (or even if she refuses to leave, as is her right), I'd sit right down with that list of phone numbers and start calling down the list explaining to them all why you're kicking her out and what proof you have, hang up, go on to the next - all within 30 minutes; in the meantime, I'd have my computer in front of me and I'd be emailing all the other people (his peeps and his folks and his fiancé and her friends), explaining why you're divorcing her.

Then I'd go lock myself in the bedroom with a bottle of wine and watch tv.


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## turnera

finallyready said:


> Great idea. If it's soon I might still be pissed enough to do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As cool as that sounds, his fiancé doesn't deserve it.


----------



## SadandAngry

finallyready said:


> Thank you for the advice. I know in my heart that you're right. But do I have the willpower to constrain myself like this?! At a minimum I think the OMs fiancé needs to know that she's about to make a huge mistake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do have the will power. You aren't the cheater, you aren't subject to the brain chemicals, you can actually use your head and think about what you are doing. 

When you want to do something dumb, think about your kids, they need you. I agree the fiancee ought to know, and yes, you can certainly help there, but that's not your main focus. You need to take care of yourself and your kids, first and foremost.

Stay calm, cool, and collected. Make a plan, and follow it. Do not get drawn in to arguing, do not get emotional. Just ignore anything inflammatory, and stick to the plan.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

In situations like this, where all the red flags are pointing to an obvious affair, why wouldn't the right approach to have been to confront, lay all the cards on the table, give her one chance to confess to it all and serve her with the divorce papers right then and there if she denied and refused to become transparent with her multimedia devices/e-mail accounts. 

IMHO, I think the people who are in this situation have figured out what is going on with their spouse, but they delay in order to get that irrefutable proof. Is the irrefutable proof needed more for a motivator to have the dday or is it more of a delaying tactic in the hopes that nothing comes up? 

I feel bad for the OP for a number of issues. First off because he's been cheated on and I think that is a terrible pill to swallow. I also feel sorry for him because I think this goal of gathering evidence puts a BS thru hell when he/she can get their day of reckoning much earlier. In this case, the OP had about 3 weeks of hell to endure. But what about those guys/gals that spend 2, 3 or even 6 months of hell looking for that smoking gun when all of this circumstantial evidence is everywhere? To me, there is a misplaced assumption that a marriage is the same as a court of law in the US/UK. Innocent until proven guilty is great when you are living in a representative republic - not so hot for a marriage. You shouldn't have to feel that you need to secure a warrant in order to get transparency from your spouse. There IS no right to privacy in a marriage and there IS no right against self incrimination. A marriage is NOT a democracy. It's a partnership. 

The day my wife tries to equate our marriage to a democracy is the day I assume that she's guilty of "treasonous" acts against the marriage. She would be guilty until proven innocent. As it should be in all good marriages. IMHO.


----------



## the guy

I would play it cool until you make contact with the OM's old lady.
Your showing a hand that will be enabling the OM to do some damage control.

As soon as your old lady finds out your dumping her she will tell the OM and he will go hide along with his chick.

Again if it was me I would expose first, protect my assets and then confront.


----------



## finallyready

Plan 9 from OS said:


> In situations like this, where all the red flags are pointing to an obvious affair, why wouldn't the right approach to have been to confront, lay all the cards on the table, give her one chance to confess to it all and serve her with the divorce papers right then and there if she denied and refused to become transparent with her multimedia devices/e-mail accounts.
> 
> IMHO, I think the people who are in this situation have figured out what is going on with their spouse, but they delay in order to get that irrefutable proof. Is the irrefutable proof needed more for a motivator to have the dday or is it more of a delaying tactic in the hopes that nothing comes up?
> 
> I feel bad for the OP for a number of issues. First off because he's been cheated on and I think that is a terrible pill to swallow. I also feel sorry for him because I think this goal of gathering evidence puts a BS thru hell when he/she can get their day of reckoning much earlier. In this case, the OP had about 3 weeks of hell to endure. But what about those guys/gals that spend 2, 3 or even 6 months of hell looking for that smoking gun when all of this circumstantial evidence is everywhere? To me, there is a misplaced assumption that a marriage is the same as a court of law in the US/UK. Innocent until proven guilty is great when you are living in a representative republic - not so hot for a marriage. You shouldn't have to feel that you need to secure a warrant in order to get transparency from your spouse. There IS no right to privacy in a marriage and there IS no right against self incrimination. A marriage is NOT a democracy. It's a partnership.
> 
> The day my wife tries to equate our marriage to a democracy is the day I assume that she's guilty of "treasonous" acts against the marriage. She would be guilty until proven innocent. As it should be in all good marriages. IMHO.


So I confronted tonight. Told her what I know but didn't tell her how. She assumes PI. She denied everything despite me giving explicit details. I have her my terms in divorce and gave her the papers. I also just had a nice long conversation with the OMs fiancé. She is shocked. Not sure where this is heading but I'm buckling up for the ride.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finallyready

finallyready said:


> So I confronted tonight. Told her what I know but didn't tell her how. She assumes PI. She denied everything despite me giving explicit details. I have her my terms in divorce and gave her the papers. I also just had a nice long conversation with the OMs fiancé. She is shocked. Not sure where this is heading but I'm buckling up for the ride.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And despite my best efforts, no remorse from my stbxw. She came outside when I was talking to the OMs fiancé. Yelling and asking who I was talking to. The OM knew we were on the phone and had already contacted my stbxw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy

Good job!! Keep the var with you at all times. Keep those recordings safe!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

So you've called her parents and siblings and best friend by now, right?


----------



## finallyready

turnera said:


> So you've called her parents and siblings and best friend by now, right?


I have not. What will that gain me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

finallyready said:


> I have not. What will that gain me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It will gain you getting the truth to them before her lies do. Don't delay this. Expose to all that you can now....especially her family.


----------



## Jasel

finallyready said:


> I have not. What will that gain me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to do this ASAP.


----------



## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> I have not. What will that gain me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do it before she demonizes you in front of everyone.


----------



## SadandAngry

She's a serial cheater, she's deep in an affair, she's in no position to be remorseful. She probably blames you, and thinks its your fault she cheated. Not your problem at this point.

Focus on yourself and your kids. Detatch from her.


----------



## Jasel

WhiteRaven said:


> Do it before she demonizes you in front of everyone.


Not to mention it will help protect your relationship with your kids.


----------



## weightlifter

You did well Finallyready. By telling her parents etc they mean your STBXW parents etc to make sure the truth comes out.

Make sure YOUR end knows too. The support of family and friends will help carry you thru this mess and will be invaluable.


----------



## Thorburn

I would expose it to family as well. When I heard the recorder I placed in my wife's car it was solid. My wife deied everything. She told me I was nuts and wanted to take me to a hospital. WTH. There I am playing the recording of her having sex to her and she is saying that it is just music and that I am insane.

My youngest son wanted to hear the proof because my wife called him and told him I was lying. My wife was trying to convince everyone that I was lying and crazy. with the recording her little fantasy world came to an end. ANd frankly I could care less at that time whether the family, hers or mine would support me (most of them did). I would do it all over again in exposing it to family.


----------



## turnera

finallyready said:


> I have not. What will that gain me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, first, you don't know how things are going to turn out. She may be defiant NOW cos you're ruining her cake, but a week from now she might have a mighty fall and be begging to come back and willing to make it up to you. Or she may not and you'll be stuck dealing with these people whom you did not inform of the REAL REASON you're splitting up. 

Meanwhile SHE will have gone to them and LIED HER ASS OFF to demonize you and blame it all on you. More than likely, you will magically turn into a wife abuser who she suffered from for many years before this amazing friend of hers - who wanted nothing from her - stepped in and lent her an ear - and nothing else - and helped her to see that she needed to leave her abusive drunk husband. Oh, and guess what happened? The most amazing thing! *After * (of course, not before!) she became _brave _enough to leave her POS abusive drunk child-molester husband - who must be removed from his own kids' lives for THEIR sakes (and will y'all loan me money so I can hire the best lawyer to ensure he never sees his kids again?), a romance blossomed between her and this amazing wonderful wanting-nothing friend and aren't they glad he stepped into their daughter's/sister's/friend's life and rescued her from the monster?

THAT is why you tell them the truth - first.


----------



## turnera

btw, finallyready, I'm sure you're sitting there thinking, man these people are ruthless! Go for the jugular! Maybe I shouldn't be listening to them.

Please understand that we aren't telling you to expose to them because we get our rocks off by it. We are telling you because we have years and years (some of us decades) of experience watching people JUST LIKE YOU go through this exact same scenario. We've watched the ones who follow the advice and we've watched the ones who thought it was too extreme (she would never do that to me, I know her!) and didn't. 

Guess what happened? Those who exposed had a SIGNIFICANTLY better outcome, no matter if they reconciled or divorced, than those who didn't, who trusted, who didn't want to seem 'crazy.' 

Why? It's complicated. It's psychological. It's science. But basically, you expose, you regain some of the control over your own destiny. I've lost track of how many men lost not only their wives but their kids, their businesses, their homes, their money, because they trusted their cheating wife to be fair. 

Cheating wives become fair ONLY when the man shows strength and self respect. Please believe me. I've seen thousands of men in your shoes. Not telling will find you in an even worse place a month from now. Tell them, and then walk away from them and leave them to their own thoughts. You're not trying to get anything from them, only for them to understand the truth. What they do with it is their business. But by tellling them, she can no longer blame this all on you. And trust me, she will try.


----------



## Rottdad42

Exposure is key. She will attempt to put your credibility in a bad light. Meaning she will infect the the actual truth. If she does this there might not be a chance of you ever being vindicated and validated. This in turn will make you look like a tool at a minimum. Exposure has been done on a wide scale around here, with a lot of positive outcome. Some not so positive. Even with rock solid, undeniable, irrefutable proof. Meaning audio/video in hand. I mean really video. You know your wife's sounds, moves and so on and your're going to tell me that's not you. Riiiight. Exposure is key, everyone here will tell you that, it's necessary not only for peace of mind, but it shows the family members of the BS, that your WW, ain't no saint. She has ruined everything, you have not. Hold your head up high and let people know, you are a good man, a good husband and a good person. That's it.


----------



## Chaparral

Cheaters work on the assumption of "who lies first wins."


----------



## finallyready

Chaparral said:


> Cheaters work on the assumption of "who lies first wins."


Update: She finally admitted everything late last night after being confronted with all of the dirty details. Still very little remorse. She says she feels like **** for doing what she did, but clearly she is only minimally affected by getting caught. She's very angry that I spied on her. She says that our marriage was never right and that she's had feelings for this guy our entire marriage. Wow. Thanks for that, and thanks for having 3 kids with me when I was never the one and only. The stuff nightmares are made of. I got angry a few times despite my plan to remain ice cold, so it didn't go perfectly. I told her no contact unless it's regarding the kids or divorce. I will go dark on her now. I'm doing ok. Zero tears. Looking forward only and quickly stifling my emotions when they creep up. I've been talking to OMs fiancé a lot. All indications are that she is not taking him back. It's relieving to feel a bit of justice. He messed with a married woman and contributed to the break up of my family. There are consequences for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

You did well. Glad you could find his fiance.

When was the wedding?

LOL at being angry on being spied on. REALLY!?


----------



## tom67

Just a thought you may want to DNA test your kids. Now let the inlaws and aanyone else important on her side know. Otherwise you have done the best considering.


----------



## jack.c

i agree with Tom67.... does she have desire to leave?


----------



## turnera

Call her parents. Please.


----------



## Graywolf2

It apparently wasn’t real for her when you separated two years ago. In her heart she knew she could always come back. 

File for divorce now to make it real. Some spouses are like teens that don’t realize all their parents do for them and never will until they are on their own. 

I personally think you should go through with the divorce but you don’t have to. Divorce is intentionally a long drawn out process to allow you to change your mind. 

The comforting thing is that filing for D now is the smart thing to do if you want to get rid of her or keep her.


----------



## Acabado

finallyready said:


> She says that our marriage was never right and that she's had feelings for this guy our entire marriage. Wow. Thanks for that, and thanks for having 3 kids with me when I was never the one and only. The stuff nightmares are made of.


Ouch!


----------



## Thorburn

Cheaters rewrite the marriage history. So take her comments about having feelings for this guy the entire marriage as maybe, but I would suggest that her comments were more directed at hurting you then being the truth.

Ironically the OM's fiancee gets it. If your wife hooks up with this guy it rearely works out.

I think you are doing well.

I would prepare yourself for the wife to have an eye opening experience. This has not hit her yet. Once she starts thinking about her future she may have a change of mind.


----------



## jack.c

Thorburn said:


> Cheaters rewrite the marriage history. So take her comments about having feelings for this guy the entire marriage as maybe, but I would suggest that her comments were more directed at hurting you then being the truth.
> 
> Ironically the OM's fiancee gets it. If your wife hooks up with this guy it rearely works out.
> 
> I think you are doing well.
> 
> I would prepare yourself for the wife to have an eye opening experience. This has not hit her yet. Once she starts thinking about her future she may have a change of mind.



You bet she will, but not for remorse! She will find herself like a divorced mother of 3 kids and realize that very few men will be willing to deal with her..... sooooo back to plan B


----------



## GusPolinski

Thorburn said:


> Cheaters rewrite the marriage history. *So take her comments about having feelings for this guy the entire marriage as maybe, but I would suggest that her comments were more directed at hurting you then being the truth.*
> 
> Ironically the OM's fiancee gets it. If your wife hooks up with this guy it rearely works out.
> 
> I think you are doing well.
> 
> I would prepare yourself for the wife to have an eye opening experience. This has not hit her yet. Once she starts thinking about her future she may have a change of mind.


Here's how I would take it...

"I've been f*cking him our entire marriage. It's entirely possible that one or more of our children are his."

Sorry if this is harsh. Please please please DNA your kids.


----------



## finallyready

GusPolinski said:


> Here's how I would take it...
> 
> "I've been f*cking him our entire marriage. It's entirely possible that one or more of our children are his."
> 
> Sorry if this is harsh. Please please please DNA your kids.


I may do that. Although two of my kids are almost surely mine because he lived in another state at the time, and all 3 look like me. The OMs fiancé has also questioned whether the OM could be the father of any of my kids. I guess I wouldn't rule any more nightmares out at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy

Is this the same OM from a couple of years ago?


----------



## jack.c

finallyready said:


> I may do that. Although two of my kids are almost surely mine because he lived in another state at the time, and all 3 look like me. The OMs fiancé has also questioned whether the OM could be the father of any of my kids. I guess I wouldn't rule any more nightmares out at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well it will always be a strong action to show your WW the trust you have towards her .... she will be really pxssed!! DO IT!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

finallyready said:


> I may do that. Although two of my kids are almost surely mine because he lived in another state at the time, and all 3 look like me. The OMs fiancé has also questioned whether the OM could be the father of any of my kids. I guess I wouldn't rule any more nightmares out at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You may be right. But also, since there appears to be doubt you should follow thru on it. Besides, if your wife feels terrible for what she did (understand anger at herself not remorse for hurting you), then all the more reason to show her you don't trust her with ANYTHING. That should sting for her plus you do need to know if your kids are biologically yours or not. If for nothing else, you may need the info for medical reasons.


----------



## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> I may do that. Although two of my kids are almost surely mine because he lived in another state at the time, and all 3 look like me. The OMs fiancé has also questioned whether the OM could be the father of any of my kids. *I guess I wouldn't rule any more nightmares out at this point.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of all the nightmares, that's the worst. I've been there, bro. I know the pain. Stay strong. Pop Xanax if you have to.


----------



## finallyready

turnera said:


> Call her parents. Please.


I'm thinking of writing her dad an email that goes something like this:

FIL,

You may have already heard that your daughter and I are pursuing a divorce. I wanted to reach out to you out of respect for you, and to ensure that you know that I have always loved your daughter and was proud to have given her the life we had and the children we have. I was never a believer in divorce. I would have done anything to make our marriage work. Unfortunately I discovered recently that she became involved with another man and was no longer in love with me. At this point divorce is the only option. I'm sorry to be bringing this bad news to you, but I felt it right that you know. I'm not claiming that I was ever a perfect husband, but I was loyal to your daughter and would have remained so forever, and I was always willing to do whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and our girls. Thanks for being part of the family. Take care and I wish you the best. 

Thoughts??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Graywolf2

GusPolinski said:


> Here's how I would take it...
> 
> "I've been f*cking him our entire marriage. It's entirely possible that one or more of our children are his."
> 
> Sorry if this is harsh. Please please please DNA your kids.


Buy a DNA kit at WalMart or online for $30. Swab the inside of the kid's cheek and yours. Mail it to a lab with $130 more. 

*Remember, you're not testing your kids, you're testing your wife.*


----------



## Mike11

finallyready, it is too early for her to change her antes, she is still resentful that she was caught and she is cornered now like a winded animal she is going to throw anything at you as self preservation, don't believe she means anything that comes out about you, she is hurt and is trying to get back at you for discovering her. 


the [email protected] will hit her later on when things are going to hit her hard especially if the OM will throw her under the bus 

i know it is difficult but stay calm and collected, the worst thing you can do is show raw emotions to her


----------



## raven3321

finallyready said:


> I'm thinking of writing her dad an email that goes something like this:
> 
> FIL,
> 
> You may have already heard that your daughter and I are pursuing a divorce. I wanted to reach out to you out of respect for you, and to ensure that you know that I have always loved your daughter and was proud to have given her the life we had and the children we have. I was never a believer in divorce. I would have done anything to make our marriage work. Unfortunately I discovered recently that she became involved with another man and was no longer in love with me. At this point divorce is the only option. I'm sorry to be bringing this bad news to you, but I felt it right that you know. I'm not claiming that I was ever a perfect husband, but I was loyal to your daughter and would have remained so forever, and I was always willing to do whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and our girls. Thanks for being part of the family. Take care and I wish you the best.
> 
> Thoughts??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perfect. Respectable and heart-felt. It gives him the reason without the gory details. I would put somewhere in where she's involved with another man, that this is the second time she's done this. That way it doesn't seem like a knee-jerk reaction.


----------



## turnera

finallyready said:


> I'm thinking of writing her dad an email that goes something like this:
> 
> FIL,
> 
> You may have already heard that your daughter and I are pursuing a divorce. I wanted to reach out to you out of respect for you, and to ensure that you know that I have always loved your daughter and was proud to have given her the life we had and the children we have. I was never a believer in divorce. I would have done anything to make our marriage work. Unfortunately I discovered recently that she became involved with another man and was no longer in love with me. At this point divorce is the only option. I'm sorry to be bringing this bad news to you, but I felt it right that you know. I'm not claiming that I was ever a perfect husband, but I was loyal to your daughter and would have remained so forever, and I was always willing to do whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and our girls. Thanks for being part of the family. Take care and I wish you the best.
> 
> Thoughts??


It's ok. Sounds more like a love letter to HER than a letter to him, though.

"FIL, I've always respected you and been proud to be your SIL. I just wanted to let you know why we're divorcing; you deserve that. I've discovered that XX has been cheating on me with YY, who I'm sure you know from the past. It's not the first time. I just can't take any more of her cheating, so we are parting ways. I hope I don't lose you in my and our kids' lives (when with me), too, but I'll respect your decision."


----------



## missthelove2013

jack.c said:


> You bet she will, but not for remorse! She will find herself like a divorced mother of 3 kids and realize that very few men will be willing to deal with her..... sooooo back to plan B


THIS should be a sticky!!

As far as R goes, how many are truly remorseful and how many dont want to be single/single parent/loose their current lifestyle??

The loss of lifestyle HAS to factor in, more for some than others...how much of this does it take to make someone a plan b rather than a bs with a truly remorseful ws?? The BS will NEVER know...ever...
maybe the shock of potential loss is enough to keep ws from cheating again
maybe NEVER finding another viable plan A keeps them faithful
maybe they become super-cheaters and NEVER get caught again
MAYBE...just maybe...some are truly remorseful, even beyond the possiblity if lossing their lifestyle, regret hurting their bs, and want to make it better


----------



## SadandAngry

turnera said:


> It's ok. Sounds more like a love letter to HER than a letter to him, though.
> 
> "FIL, I've always respected you and been proud to be your SIL. I just wanted to let you know why we're divorcing; you deserve that. I've discovered that XX has been cheating on me with YY, who I'm sure you know from the past. It's not the first time. I just can't take any more of her cheating, so we are parting ways. I hope I don't lose you in my and our kids' lives (when with me), too, but I'll respect your decision."


I'd do something like this maybe, but in person.


----------



## turnera

DEFINITELY much better done in person, if they're nearby.


----------



## turnera

missthelove2013 said:


> As far as R goes, how many are truly remorseful and how many dont want to be single/single parent/loose their current lifestyle??
> 
> The loss of lifestyle HAS to factor in, more for some than others...how much of this does it take to make someone a plan b rather than a bs with a truly remorseful ws?? The BS will NEVER know...ever...
> maybe the shock of potential loss is enough to keep ws from cheating again
> maybe NEVER finding another viable plan A keeps them faithful
> maybe they become super-cheaters and NEVER get caught again
> MAYBE...just maybe...some are truly remorseful, even beyond the possiblity if lossing their lifestyle, regret hurting their bs, and want to make it better


This is why I usually suggest that the BS send the WS packing for at least 6 months to a year. If they are STILL saying they want to get back together after that amount of time on their own (ie, not using the BS's bank account), it may be legitimate.


----------



## bandit.45

finallyready said:


> I'm thinking of writing her dad an email that goes something like this:
> 
> FIL,
> 
> You may have already heard that your daughter and I are pursuing a divorce. I wanted to reach out to you out of respect for you, and to ensure that you know that I have always loved your daughter and was proud to have given her the life we had and the children we have. I was never a believer in divorce. I would have done anything to make our marriage work. Unfortunately I discovered recently that she became involved with another man and was no longer in love with me. At this point divorce is the only option. I'm sorry to be bringing this bad news to you, but I felt it right that you know. I'm not claiming that I was ever a perfect husband, but I was loyal to your daughter and would have remained so forever, and I was always willing to do whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and our girls. Thanks for being part of the family. Take care and I wish you the best.
> 
> Thoughts??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its good as-is. send it.


----------



## Regret214

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

finallyready said:


> I'm thinking of writing her dad an email that goes something like this:
> 
> FIL,
> 
> You may have already heard that your daughter and I are pursuing a divorce. I wanted to reach out to you out of respect for you, and to ensure that you know that I have always loved your daughter and was proud to have given her the life we had and the children we have. I was never a believer in divorce. I would have done anything to make our marriage work. Unfortunately I discovered recently that she became involved with another man and was no longer in love with me. At this point divorce is the only option. I'm sorry to be bringing this bad news to you, but I felt it right that you know. I'm not claiming that I was ever a perfect husband, but I was loyal to your daughter and would have remained so forever, and I was always willing to do whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and our girls. Thanks for being part of the family. Take care and I wish you the best.
> 
> Thoughts??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



mention that this is the 2nd time. Tell OMW about her being a serial cheater. That should get back to OM


----------



## 3putt

warlock07 said:


> mention that this is the 2nd time. Tell OMW about her being a serial cheater. That should get back to OM


Don't forget to include the OM's name in there.


----------



## raven3321

Finally,

I may have missed it somewhere but is one of you moving out?


----------



## finallyready

raven3321 said:


> Finally,
> 
> I may have missed it somewhere but is one of you moving out?


Still figuring that out. I'm away Monday-Friday for a few months for work. She will probably leave on weekends. This is good because it gives me time to sort out proper living arrangements. 

Update: so much drama over the last 24 hr. OMs fiancé contacted my stbxw and they have been going at it. Stbxw is not remorseful. She's saying hurtful things to the OMs fiancé. Poor girl. She told the OMs fiancé that she hasn't loved me for the last 3 years. Unbelievable. I know our relationship has been strained but I also know that's not true. I'm sure there have been periods where she didn't love me but I also know that there were plenty of periods that she did love me. Crazy. I am getting harassed by OM fiancé to send her the recording, but I'm hesitant now because if the additional drama it will create. I have ignored all texts from my stbxw. Trying to stay strong and remain dark but it's hard. I still have a strong desire for my stbxw to show some remorse, but not holding my breath. I'm having a lot of emotional moments, but at other times I have moments where I feel good that I'm pushing forward, knowing that it's the right thing for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

Doing good right now. Destroy all pics and memorabilia in your house that reminds you of her. Take care bro.


----------



## turnera

Right now, you need to:
1) Call your family and friends - AFTER you have told her family why you're divorcing - and tell them what happened and ask for their support. And USE that support. For the next few months, you're going to be talking about this to them - a lot. That's ok. They love you and want to help you.
2) Get your legal/money stuff in order, no matter what happens. 
3) Ignore everything your wife says. She's in flux and even she doesn't know what she thinks or feels. If she's still saying she doesn't love you 3 months from now, believe her. Until then, ignore.
4) Get out, exercise, hang out with friends, exercise, don't drink, exercise, try new things to fill your head with new good memories, and exercise.
5) Spend a little time drawing up your 'if you came home' list that you can hand her if she ever gets her head out of her ass. It will include things like a NC letter to OM that YOU approve and send, no passwords on any electronics, going to MC/IC, asking her folks for forgiveness, handing over her electronics any time you ask so you can verify NC.

Oh, and send the recording to the OM's fiance. She deserves to know. Unless it can hurt you legally; once you give it to someone else, you can't control what's done with it.


----------



## weightlifter

DO NOT destroy everything. More than once things changed. Then again box it and put it somewhere safe but out of the way.

Ack never mention the vars! Mass is 2 party consent. DONT send the var!


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> DO NOT destroy everything. More than once things changed. Then again box it and put it somewhere safe but out of the way.
> 
> Ack never mention the vars! Mass is 2 party consent. DONT send the var!


You could play it for her but don't give it to her.


----------



## How am I Going to Surviv

tom67 said:


> You could play it for her but don't give it to her.


I'd recommend never giving it to anyone, never playing it for anyone, never admitting that a recording even exists, never divulging the source of the information. 

Just use the information. State the facts as you know them as best benefits you. 

Never give up your methods or sources. Leaving them with the thought, "How does he know so much? Where is he getting it? How much does he know?" is way better than, "That no-good phukker recorded me!" One can evoke awe. The other only inspires anger and revenge.


----------



## syhoybenden

finallyready said:


> I am getting harassed by OM fiancé to send her the recording, but I'm hesitant now because if the additional drama it will create.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please please please send the recording to the OM's fiance NOW!!

Stop being so damn cruel to the poor girl.

How would YOU feel if the shoe was on the other foot?


----------



## WhiteRaven

syhoybenden said:


> Please please please send the recording to the OM's fiance NOW!!
> 
> Stop being so damn cruel to the poor girl.
> 
> How would YOU feel if the shoe was on the other foot?


Seriously? It's violation of Recording laws- both one party and two party as he wasn't present at the scene. The OM and WW can sue his @ss off.


----------



## SadandAngry

WhiteRaven said:


> Seriously? It's violation of Recording laws- both one party and two party as he wasn't present at the scene. The OM and WW can sue his @ss off.


Exactly, he should not have even told her that the recording exists. He has no idea what will happen to it if he gives it up, or how it may affect him.


----------



## Jasel

Do NOT expose without showing proof. Ever.

Cheaters can give Oscar worthy performances. If you do expose to her parents or anyone else, make sure they know you have concrete evidence when you do. Otherwise it turns into a he said/she said, and her family is more likely to take her word than yours. Not to mention others. This can severely damage your relationship with your in-laws which will affect your children as well.



> I'm hesitant now because if the additional drama it will create


 That doesn't even make sense. You told her that her fiance was having an affair. If you didn't want her to experience any drama you shouldn't have said anything to begin with. Now that you have, you owe it to her to provide her with the proof she needs to make help a decision.

Also what your wife is doing is re-writing the marital history. Which is something cheaters do to justify their actions, compartmentalize their guilt, or to keep them from acknowledging that they're the ones in the wrong.

So I wouldn't take her words about your marriage to heart. Chances are it wasn't nearly as bad as she's trying to make it out to be. But she needs to convince herself that it was so she can blame you for her actions instead of herself. Or at the very least use it as justification for her cheating.


----------



## SadandAngry

The fiancee has already talked to the wayward wife and got confirmation directly from her. OP has already said too much if he told her the recording exists. OM fiance can get her own VAR if she needs to hear something, its not as if the affair is going to stop, there's no remorse.


----------



## WhiteRaven

SadandAngry said:


> Exactly, he should not have even told her that the recording exists. He has no idea what will happen to it if he gives it up, or how it may affect him.


You can let the whole world know the recording exists. Proving it in the court is a different matter altogether.


----------



## Graywolf2

Is recording other people legal in your state? State laws vary. Some require at least one person in the conversation know that they are being recorded.


----------



## raven3321

Since she already knows about the recording, I agree it would be cruel not to allow her to listen to it. I would meet with her and allow her to hear it.........amidst a lovely dinner with a nice bottle of wine.


----------



## WhiteRaven

raven3321 said:


> Since she already knows about the recording, I agree it would be cruel not to allow her to listen to it. I would meet with her and allow her to hear it.........amidst a lovely dinner with a nice bottle of wine.


.. and then a motel room to lend her a crying shoulder.:smthumbup:


----------



## syhoybenden

WhiteRaven said:


> Seriously? It's violation of Recording laws- both one party and two party as he wasn't present at the scene. The OM and WW can sue his @ss off.


She should at the very least be able to hear it.


----------



## weightlifter

I feel for both betrayed.

At least for one it was BEFORE the wedding.


----------



## tom67

WhiteRaven said:


> .. and then a motel room to lend her a crying shoulder.:smthumbup:


And then sext the fiance pics of the tryst.
and your junk to if it tickles your fancy.


----------



## WhiteRaven

tom67 said:


> And then sext the fiance pics of the tryst.
> and your junk to if it tickles your fancy.


Nah.. A blow-by-blow text update to the OM and WW is fine and dandy-

'Guess who is blowing me right now?'
'Damm! Tastes like cocoa butter'
'Boobs do have personality of their own'
'Certainly a mouthful'
'F*cking never killed anyone. I'll be the first:smthumbup:'
'Too tight in the brown. Trying my best to get in'
'Yesssss! I'm in.'
'Didn't know sex can be sooo goood:smthumbup:'
'Did I mention I forgot to use condoms?'
'Can I keep her? Pleaaassse?'


----------



## tom67

WhiteRaven said:


> Nah.. A blow-by-blow text update to the OM and WW is fine and dandy-
> 
> 'Guess who is blowing me right now?'
> 'Damm! Tastes like cocoa butter'
> 'Boobs do have personality of their own'
> 'Certainly a mouthful'
> 'F*cking never killed anyone. I'll be the first:smthumbup:'
> 'Too tight in the brown. Trying my best to get in'
> 'Yesssss! I'm in.'
> 'Didn't know sex can be sooo goood:smthumbup:'
> 'Did I mention I forgot to use condoms?'
> 'Can I keep her? Pleaaassse?'


FR hope you can laugh again.
Go meet the betrayed woman and talk to her if you want.


----------



## warlock07

I agree with the other posters. Let her hear of the recording in a controlled setting. Tell her that you are concerned about legal repercussions and would allow her to hear it under certain circumstances. Save it in the cloud.


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> I agree with the other posters. Let her hear of the recording in a controlled setting. Tell her that you are concerned about legal repercussions and would allow her to hear it under certain circumstances. Save it in the cloud.


And save it on a flash drive.


----------



## SadandAngry

tom67 said:


> And save it on a flash drive.


Keep the flash drive away from your house, somewhere your wife can never get to it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

finallyready said:


> I still have a strong desire for my stbxw to show some remorse,


Really? I know it is hard, but use some logic for yourself right now. She showed remorse the first time, you took her back, ended a new relationship and here you are about to go through the trials again.

So, what does that tell you about any remorse she shows?
I know what it tells this outside observer, you know the quote, "fool me once, shame on you fool me twice shame on me." At this point, any remorse she shows is "fool's gold."


----------



## finallyready

tom67 said:


> FR hope you can laugh again.
> Go meet the betrayed woman and talk to her if you want.


Ha. Yes I can laugh. She stole years of my life but not my personality. I have decided to share the recording with her, but only in person so she cannot keep a copy. I'll then stash it away. And if, just if, my stbxw ever approaches me about R I will play it for her and tell her to f-ck off. 

So today I violated the 180. She texted me about some routine divorce financial bullsh-t and also about telling the kids about us, and how we have to be careful about how we approach it. I went off. Couldn't help it. Told her if she cared about the kids she would have thought twice about what she did. It was a waste of breath. I also learned today from OM fiancé that my stbxw was emailing OM back in 2007 saying she was thinking about him and wondering if they were meant to be together. Wtf. So basically my wife was having an EA for our entire marriage! The depth of deception is unimaginable. And our life was great at that time. We were happy and life was good. I couldn't resist letting her know that I knew about those emails. She blamed me of course. OM fiancé apologized for not contacting me at the time. I really went off on stbxw about this sh-t. Told her that she is a sociopath if she thinks it's ok for an entire marriage to be a lie. Back to going dark tomorrow. 

In other news, OMs fiancé has offered for me to go live in her place. She now has extra room and I obviously need a place to stay. Sounds like a great idea!

Also, OM fiancé told me today that she mailed my stbxw her engagement ring with a note of congratulations for finally winning her true love. Pretty ballsy I must say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Don't be surprised if the OMW tries to bed you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Good luck, I'm out.


----------



## Jasel

finallyready said:


> In other news, OMs fiancé has offered for me to go live in her place. She now has extra room and I obviously need a place to stay. Sounds like a great idea!


It most certainly does:iagree: 

Keep in mind I'm sure most others would disagree however, and not without good reasons.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

finallyready said:


> Ha. Yes I can laugh. She stole years of my life but not my personality. I have decided to share the recording with her, but only in person so she cannot keep a copy. I'll then stash it away. And if, just if, my stbxw ever approaches me about R I will play it for her and tell her to f-ck off.
> 
> So today I violated the 180. She texted me about some routine divorce financial bullsh-t and also about telling the kids about us, and how we have to be careful about how we approach it. I went off. Couldn't help it. Told her if she cared about the kids she would have thought twice about what she did. It was a waste of breath. I also learned today from OM fiancé that my stbxw was emailing OM back in 2007 saying she was thinking about him and wondering if they were meant to be together. Wtf. So basically my wife was having an EA for our entire marriage! The depth of deception is unimaginable. And our life was great at that time. We were happy and life was good. I couldn't resist letting her know that I knew about those emails. She blamed me of course. OM fiancé apologized for not contacting me at the time. I really went off on stbxw about this sh-t. Told her that she is a sociopath if she thinks it's ok for an entire marriage to be a lie. Back to going dark tomorrow.
> 
> In other news, OMs fiancé has offered for me to go live in her place. She now has extra room and I obviously need a place to stay. Sounds like a great idea!
> 
> Also, OM fiancé told me today that she mailed my stbxw her engagement ring with a note of congratulations for finally winning her true love. Pretty ballsy I must say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like the the OM's betrayed fiance's style. At least she didn't marry the a$$hole before she found out what he was really about.

Be careful on how close you get with her though. I know some red hot revenge sex would be nice, but you don't really know her that well yet... Ah who am I kidding. I know what I'd end up doing.

Just be smart about it. Use your big head, when you're out of her bed.


----------



## jack.c

finallyready said:


> Ha. Yes I can laugh. She stole years of my life but not my personality. I have decided to share the recording with her, but only in person so she cannot keep a copy. I'll then stash it away. And if, just if, my stbxw ever approaches me about R I will play it for her and tell her to f-ck off.
> 
> So today I violated the 180. She texted me about some routine divorce financial bullsh-t and also about telling the kids about us, and how we have to be careful about how we approach it. I went off. Couldn't help it. Told her if she cared about the kids she would have thought twice about what she did. It was a waste of breath. I also learned today from OM fiancé that my stbxw was emailing OM back in 2007 saying she was thinking about him and wondering if they were meant to be together. Wtf. So basically my wife was having an EA for our entire marriage! The depth of deception is unimaginable. And our life was great at that time. We were happy and life was good. I couldn't resist letting her know that I knew about those emails. She blamed me of course. OM fiancé apologized for not contacting me at the time. I really went off on stbxw about this sh-t. Told her that she is a sociopath if she thinks it's ok for an entire marriage to be a lie. Back to going dark tomorrow.
> 
> In other news, OMs fiancé has offered for me to go live in her place. She now has extra room and I obviously need a place to stay. Sounds like a great idea!
> 
> Also, OM fiancé told me today that she mailed my stbxw her engagement ring with a note of congratulations for finally winning her true love. Pretty ballsy I must say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



WOW.... what a turnout!
I guess that the violated 180 is'nt that bad...the important thing is going back to it ,,, every once a while it feels better getting of the chest some feelings, but now work on you.
Dont know if it's a good idea to move in with the ex-fiance... it's ovious that she wants a pretty nasty revenge, but in the long run it might bite you back. 
Anyway.... do whatever it takes to make you regain your self ego and happyness..... cause it's only with that feeling you can go foward and move on. 
Did'nt remember if the ex-fiance is better looking....


----------



## finallyready

jack.c said:


> WOW.... what a turnout!
> I guess that the violated 180 is'nt that bad...the important thing is going back to it ,,, every once a while it feels better getting of the chest some feelings, but now work on you.
> Dont know if it's a good idea to move in with the ex-fiance... it's ovious that she wants a pretty nasty revenge, but in the long run it might bite you back.
> Anyway.... do whatever it takes to make you regain your self ego and happyness..... cause it's only with that feeling you can go foward and move on.
> Did'nt remember if the ex-fiance is better looking....


I'm not going to move in with his ex fiancé. I just thought it would be very ironic. I also wouldn't try to sleep with her. She seems like a genuinely nice person who wants to help someone who was also affected by this terrible situation. I'm aware that anything like that would only prolong my healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

finallyready said:


> I'm not going to move in with his ex fiancé. I just thought it would be very ironic. I also wouldn't try to sleep with her. She seems like a genuinely nice person who wants to help someone who was also affected by this terrible situation. I'm aware that anything like that would only prolong my healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At least meet her in person. Would do both of you a lot of good.


----------



## manfromlamancha

finallyready said:


> I'm not going to move in with his ex fiancé. I just thought it would be very ironic. I also wouldn't try to sleep with her. She seems like a genuinely nice person who wants to help someone who was also affected by this terrible situation. I'm aware that anything like that would only prolong my healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But even staying in her house might drive your WW and POSOM crazy!

:lol:


----------



## WhiteRaven

manfromlamancha said:


> But even staying in her house might drive your WW and POSOM crazy!
> 
> :lol:


:iagree:


----------



## weightlifter

finallyready said:


> Also, OM fiancé told me today that she mailed my stbxw her engagement ring with a note of congratulations for finally winning her true love. Pretty ballsy I must say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


2 things.

1) Mailing the ring.... heheh tho I woulda sold it. Still I like her style. Too bad you need to heal. A smart sassy woman rocks.

2) I realize revenge sex is a bad idea... But making the cheaters think they did it...
Too bad it would affect the kids. That would be so epic fun.

Yes I am part Klingon.


----------



## turnera

I would just make sure your wife and the POSOM know that the two of you are meeting for dinner.


----------



## thummper

finallyready said:


> I'm not going to move in with his ex fiancé. I just thought it would be very ironic. I also wouldn't try to sleep with her. She seems like a genuinely nice person who wants to help someone who was also affected by this terrible situation. I'm aware that anything like that would only prolong my healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know, Finallyready, you might regret this later. She might be very pretty, as well as nice, and you two have some history that you now share. Misery loves company, and she might prove to be very good company, and I'm not necessarily talking about sex. Something to consider.


----------



## finallyready

thummper said:


> I don't know, Finallyready, you might regret this later. She might be very pretty, as well as nice, and you two have some history that you now share. Misery loves company, and she might prove to be very good company, and I'm not necessarily talking about sex. Something to consider.


A couple more exposure questions for everyone:

1). Should this be exposed to my college aged step daughter? I failed to mention earlier that my stbxw had a daughter when we met. She had always lived with us but is now away at college. I don't want to say bad things about her mom to her, but I also don't want her to think that we are divorcing because of something I did wrong. 

2). Should I tell my boss? I am on a big project that is going well, and I have been able to maintain good job performance, but I fear that if I tell my boss what's going on with me I will be looked at more closely through a lens assuming that MUST be performing at a lower level because of my situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Yes, tell your daughter why. She needs to know the truth. IDK about the boss; that would depend on whether they might discipline you for having a liability.


----------



## Ripper

I'm trying to see the downside of being with this other woman. I can't.

It most likely won't work out in the end, so what. You two have shed the same emotional blood in the same mud. Having each others support going thru this would be tremendous. Whatever that support entails.


----------



## weightlifter

Yea calling while doing it would be sweet revenge... and possibly the start of a war.

I get the feeling FR is just trying to get thru.

I might just say to boss very simply or let him overhear you with attorney. NO details.


----------



## syhoybenden

finallyready said:


> A couple more exposure questions for everyone:
> 
> 1). Should this be exposed to my college aged step daughter? I failed to mention earlier that my stbxw had a daughter when we met. She had always lived with us but is now away at college. I don't want to say bad things about her mom to her, but I also don't want her to think that we are divorcing because of something I did wrong.
> 
> 2). Should I tell my boss? I am on a big project that is going well, and I have been able to maintain good job performance, but I fear that if I tell my boss what's going on with me I will be looked at more closely through a lens assuming that MUST be performing at a lower level because of my situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



1) yes
2) yes


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Unless it affects your job performance, no I wouldn't tell the boss. IMO, boss is informed when your personal life creeps into your work. If the boss asks you sure, but otherwise keep personal stuff to yourself for now.


----------



## just got it 55

WhiteRaven said:


> Do it before she demonizes you in front of everyone.


All he needs to do is play the goddamn fvcking tape period.

55


----------



## WhiteRaven

just got it 55 said:


> All he needs to do is play the goddamn fvcking tape period.
> 
> 55


OP hasn't mentioned his country of origin. It may violate privacy laws. 

But just think about him playing it in the court during D hearing. Priceless.....:smthumbup:


----------



## happyman64

finallyready

Talk to your stepdaughter. Just let her know you two are divorcing.

Let her know her mother has issues to work out on her own.

Do not tell your boss if the project is going well.

Hang tough. You are doing great so far.

HM


----------



## finallyready

happyman64 said:


> finallyready
> 
> Talk to your stepdaughter. Just let her know you two are divorcing.
> 
> Let her know her mother has issues to work out on her own.
> 
> Do not tell your boss if the project is going well.
> 
> Hang tough. You are doing great so far.
> 
> HM


Thanks. Struggling with regret today about how I handled the initial confrontation. I told my stbxw too much about what I knew so she knows either a PI was involved or I was recording her. This has just given her something to be angry about. I wish I had just said "I know about you and OM. We are done ". She could have been left wondering and stressing about what I really knew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## raven3321

finallyready said:


> Thanks. Struggling with regret today about how I handled the initial confrontation. I told my stbxw too much about what I knew so she knows either a PI was involved or I was recording her. This has just given her something to be angry about. I wish I had just said "I know about you and OM. We are done ". She could have been left wondering and stressing about what I really knew.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No dude. You handled it textbook perfectly. Don't second guess yourself. She was going to be angry anyway. She's mad she got caught. That anger will subside when the fog lifts and she realizes what she's about to lose. That usually happens around the time divorce papers are served or shortly after exposure to family, friends, etc. That usually wakes the WS up a bit and sooner or later the tears start flowing when they realize just what they've done and what people think of them. That's why exposure is so important. Another event that facilitates this is when the OM kicks them to the curb. That hasn't happened yet but I gurantee, soon it will. 

Either way, you're on the emotion roller-coaster right now. You're feelings will run the gamut. That's normal. But it will subside eventually. Just remember, this has nothing to do with you and there are lot's of women out there who would kill to have you. Like my pastor once told me, if one bus passes you by, there'll be another one coming shortly.


----------



## Graywolf2

finallyready said:


> Thanks. Struggling with regret today about how I handled the initial confrontation. I told my stbxw too much about what I knew so she knows either a PI was involved or I was recording her. This has just given her something to be angry about. I wish I had just said "I know about you and OM. We are done ". She could have been left wondering and stressing about what I really knew.


Don't kick yourself. PI stress is good. Just let her stress about what the PI did and did not see. PIs can record things and take photos from a distance with the special equipment they have. Even in the dark. Never confirm and let her stew about that.


----------



## SadandAngry

finallyready said:


> Thanks. Struggling with regret today about how I handled the initial confrontation. I told my stbxw too much about what I knew so she knows either a PI was involved or I was recording her. This has just given her something to be angry about. I wish I had just said "I know about you and OM. We are done ". She could have been left wondering and stressing about what I really knew.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's ok, you're new to the situation, you'd second guess yourself no matter what anyway.


----------



## Noble1

finallyready said:


> Thanks. Struggling with regret today about how I handled the initial confrontation. I told my stbxw too much about what I knew so she knows either a PI was involved or I was recording her. This has just given her something to be angry about. I wish I had just said "I know about you and OM. We are done ". She could have been left wondering and stressing about what I really knew.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Like others have said it seemed to go well so don't worry about it.

The important thing now is don't say anything more/new.

Be strong and move on with your life for you and your kids.


----------



## weightlifter

Dude you did fine. Tell her its a pi.

Shes mad she was caught. Oh well.

Btw when she said she never loved you... Revising history. Waywards do that. Yes part of your marriage was a lie but NOT all of it. Hold onto the good memories. Discard the bad.


----------



## turnera

The mad isn't about how you found out; it's just about her not getting to do things her way anymore.


----------



## happyman64

turnera said:


> The mad isn't about how you found out; it's just about her not getting to do things her way anymore.


Correct!

She is losing control of her affair.

Stay the course. Stay dark.

Just ignore her.

HM


----------



## finallyready

happyman64 said:


> Correct!
> 
> She is losing control of her affair.
> 
> Stay the course. Stay dark.
> 
> Just ignore her.
> 
> HM


Heading home after traveling for work all week. Not looking forward to it, but will be nice to see my little girls. She will be leaving when I get there to spend the weekend at her friends house. I assume she will also be seeing the OM. The OMs ex fiancée has been in touch with my wife and all indications are that my wife and OM are "in love with each other" and are going to "be together". Not surprising but still hard to hear. Stbxw is supposed to come back Sunday morning because it's Easter, and we are supposed to all go to my moms house for Easter dinner. I have not told my mom about our situation yet because I wanted to wait until after the Easter dinner. What does everyone think about this Easter dinner plan? Should I tell my wife not to come? Tell her to spend it with her new boyfriend? I don't want to mess up the holiday for my kids, but how am I supposed to handle this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

finallyready said:


> Heading home after traveling for work all week. Not looking forward to it, but will be nice to see my little girls. She will be leaving when I get there to spend the weekend at her friends house. I assume she will also be seeing the OM. The OMs ex fiancée has been in touch with my wife and all indications are that my wife and OM are "in love with each other" and are going to "be together". Not surprising but still hard to hear. Stbxw is supposed to come back Sunday morning because it's Easter, and we are supposed to all go to my moms house for Easter dinner. I have not told my mom about our situation yet because I wanted to wait until after the Easter dinner. What does everyone think about this Easter dinner plan? Should I tell my wife not to come? Tell her to spend it with her new boyfriend? I don't want to mess up the holiday for my kids, but how am I supposed to handle this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes at the last moment tell her 

Change of plans we go you stay

Let her know she's not family anymore

55


----------



## syhoybenden

finallyready said:


> Heading home after traveling for work all week. Not looking forward to it, but will be nice to see my little girls. She will be leaving when I get there to spend the weekend at her friends house. I assume she will also be seeing the OM. The OMs ex fiancée has been in touch with my wife and all indications are that my wife and OM are "in love with each other" and are going to "be together". Not surprising but still hard to hear. Stbxw is supposed to come back Sunday morning because it's Easter, and we are supposed to all go to my moms house for Easter dinner. I have not told my mom about our situation yet because I wanted to wait until after the Easter dinner. What does everyone think about this Easter dinner plan? Should I tell my wife not to come? Tell her to spend it with her new boyfriend? I don't want to mess up the holiday for my kids, but how am I supposed to handle this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time for your WW to get the cold shoulder, don't ya think?

Stop pretending and just lay it all out there for the whole world to see.


----------



## WhiteRaven

just got it 55 said:


> Yes at the last moment tell her
> 
> Change of plans we go you stay
> 
> Let her know she's not family anymore
> 
> 55


:iagree:


----------



## vi_bride04

Tell her she will be very uncomfortable at Easter dinner as you are exposing her little affair while there.


----------



## turnera

just got it 55 said:


> Yes at the last moment tell her
> 
> Change of plans we go you stay
> 
> Let her know she's not family anymore
> 
> 55


Pretty much.


----------



## turnera

Why would you take someone with you who is screwing another man?


----------



## WhiteRaven

Um.. why don't you take OM's ex-fiancee for easter dinner?


----------



## Graywolf2

It’s up to you if you want to let your wife hide eggs for the kids but do not take her to Sunday dinner at your mom’s. 

Let her know ASAP that she will be free to start a new family tradition with the OM by having Easter dinner with him. Also let your mom know what’s going on ASAP so she will have some time to recover before Sunday.


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> Why would you take someone with you who is screwing another man?


The idea of cutting her out of your family plans might come across as sort of petty and vindictive (especially since the kids will almost certainly pay the price for it in the end) but, given this, I'd have to do it. I don't consider myself to be among the most devout of Christians, but there's no way that I'd want to be anywhere near an adulterer (especially my own wife) on Easter, Christmas, etc.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Forgiveness and all. And truly, it is very important to forgive. But still, right now you're hurting, and I don't think that -- in the long run -- there is any harm in moving on and starting to lay the framework for some new family traditions that don't involve your WW. It will also send a very powerful message to your WW.

But, if she's not there, your family will almost certainly find it very odd. If you do decide to go w/o her, you may want to break the news to them either today or tomorrow so that there is no blowup on Sunday.



Graywolf2 said:


> It’s up to you *if you want to let your wife hide eggs* for the kids but do not take her to Sunday dinner at your mom’s.
> 
> Let her know ASAP that she will be free to start a new family tradition with the OM by having Easter dinner with him. Also let your mom know what’s going on ASAP so she will have some time to recover before Sunday.


Sorry, this almost made me spit coffee all over my screen.


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## turnera

meh, it's a 15-second conversation: "Guys, Wife isn't here because she's been cheating on me and I told her to stay away."


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## finallyready

Graywolf2 said:


> It’s up to you if you want to let your wife hide eggs for the kids but do not take her to Sunday dinner at your mom’s.
> 
> Let her know ASAP that she will be free to start a new family tradition with the OM by having Easter dinner with him. Also let your mom know what’s going on ASAP so she will have some time to recover before Sunday.


I just texted her and told her to find other plans for Easter. She didn't care at all. The complete lack of remorse is still shocking to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

finallyready said:


> I just texted her and told her to find other plans for Easter. She didn't care at all. The complete lack of remorse is still shocking to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let that steel your resolve!


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## BobSimmons

finallyready said:


> I just texted her and told her to find other plans for Easter. She didn't care at all. The complete lack of remorse is still shocking to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh she does care but she has the fall back of OM for comfort. This post D-Day relationship is still in it's infancy she may not say anything now but eventually she'll pipe up her displeasure.

To be curt, your new set of b*lls are something she's still coming to terms with. In time she will have sh*t tests to determine whether this resolve is real or not. Ways to yank your chain to get a reaction. Just be careful and stay the course. 

You're doing marvelous!


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## turnera

She cares, but she's not gonna let you see it. She KNOWS she will be the topic of the day at your family's house.


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## raven3321

WhiteRaven said:


> Um.. why don't you take OM's ex-fiancee for easter dinner?


In all seriousness, I agree with this. You should at least invite her. She's devastated too and it will be hard for her through the holidays. Especially if she knows the OM with be with your stbxw. I'm not saying do this for any other reason than a platonic relationship but she needs to at least be invited. She might not have anywhere to go.

I also agree you need to tell your mom (and everone else in your family) ASAP. They need time to digest all of this before Sunday. 

Also as others have posted, your stbxw very much feels the un-invite. She's just putting up a defence. She knows what she's doing is wrong and that weighs on the conscience. No one is immune to this. Like has been stated, she will feel the enormity of her transgression shortly...........in a weird way, I feel sorry for her. She has no idea what's about to happen. Who has that link to the woman who got into an affair after 16 years of marriage, left her husband for the OM, then tried to get back with the husband? She wrote it as a warning to other straying spouses. It would be appropriate here.


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## just got it 55

raven3321 said:


> In all seriousness, I agree with this. You should at least invite her. She's devastated too and it will be hard for her through the holidays. Especially if she knows the OM with be with your stbxw. I'm not saying do this for any other reason than a platonic relationship but she needs to at least be invited. She might not have anywhere to go.
> 
> I also agree you need to tell your mom (and everone else in your family) ASAP. They need time to digest all of this before Sunday.
> 
> Also as others have posted, your stbxw very much feels the un-invite. She's just putting up a defence. She knows what she's doing is wrong and that weighs on the conscience. No one is immune to this. Like has been stated, she will feel the enormity of her transgression shortly...........in a weird way, I feel sorry for her. She has no idea what's about to happen. Who has that link to the woman who got into an affair after 16 years of marriage, left her husband for the OM, then tried to get back with the husband? She wrote it as a warning to other straying spouses. It would be appropriate here.


*Unless she is a psychopath* 

55


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## finallyready

just got it 55 said:


> *Unless she is a psychopath*
> 
> 55


Relevant comment there. Her behavior is sociopathic. Her mother has been devastated by mental conditions for years, as well as her siblings. She has always been the one who turned out OK. Spoke too soon perhaps? She may have a mental illness. I don't say that in a demeaning or insulting way, but it could be the case. And it would be a shame if something treatable has led to this disaster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

FInally Ready

Go enjoy easters at your moms.

Ask for her support as you go through this troubling time.

Adn take those few hours this weekend to enjoy your kids without your WW's presence.

Focus on you and your kids. Not your wife. Or the OM.

You will have plenty of time to ponder her lack of compassion while you divorce her.

HM


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## ArmyofJuan

finallyready said:


> I just texted her and told her to find other plans for Easter. She didn't care at all. The complete lack of remorse is still shocking to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't read too much into this, from her POV it's in her best interest to appear disinterested. She doesn't want to even hint that she is making a mistake so expect her to put up a front and act like everything is roses and puppies on her end.

She will hide anything that looks bad or any doubts she has from you while still in the fog. Don't let it get to you.


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## southernsurf

finallyready said:


> I have not told my mom about our situation yet because I wanted to wait until after the Easter dinner. What does everyone think about this Easter dinner plan? Should I tell my wife not to come? Tell her to spend it with her new boyfriend? I don't want to mess up the holiday for my kids, but how am I supposed to handle this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you doing? Absolutely do not take her to dinner with you, tell her to go see who ever she wants, but do not take her just to look nice and happy for Easter – that helps her case not yours. Tell your mom when you arrive she will not be coming that you caught her cheating and its over. Time to eat. If it was me, there is no way I would want her there and to have a nice dinner with her after the way she treated you. Remember after Happy meal shes going to screw someone else. Kick her to hte curb.


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## southernsurf

finallyready said:


> I just texted her and told her to find other plans for Easter. She didn't care at all. The complete lack of remorse is still shocking to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


good, smile and have fun at dinner.....


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## finallyready

southernsurf said:


> good, smile and have fun at dinner.....


I am posting an update of the weekends events, just to vent really. 

I came home Friday and she left to go to her friends house. It was a dramatic scene. The kids were crying and hanging on her asking why she needed to leave. I did not love the idea of being at my memory filled home, so I took the kids out to dinner with a friend and his 2 kids, then we all stayed at this friends house for the night. She hated that I was doing that because the kids were "too tired". She was super pissed about it and sending me nasty texts saying I was a selfish a-hole. Then while I was at dinner I got a call from her. She's pissed off because I didn't reply to her texts (I was eating dinner - didn't see the texts). She says she was concerned that I kidnapped our kids! Wtf. 

Saturday was uneventful. She ended up coming home Saturday night instead of Sunday morning as originally planned. Easter morning was fine, no drama. But then I left with the kids to go to Easter dinner with my family at my moms. She was planning to keep the kids with her for the day but they really wanted to go with me they did. She was visibly affected by having to spend Easter alone. I was having a good day. My mood was the best it has been since D-day. A couple hours later I get a text from her that says "don't rush home. I'm on a beach drinking myself stupid". It seemed to me that she was reaching out for a reaction with that text. I wasn't biting, so I simply replied "ok". 

Fast forward a few hours. I'm now back home with the kids and she is not back yet. I get a text from her that says she going to see the OM fiancé. I don't react to that text but of course I'm wondering wtf is going on. Why would she be going there? I then get a call from her hours later. She tells me she is at OM fiancée house and she's too drink to drive home. She's clearly messed up emotionally. I am pissed off because I had a flight in the morning that I would have to miss. She tells me that she's there because she owed the OM fiancé an explanation, that she is a wreck, hates herself,etc. I'm also ask her why she thinks it's the right thing to do to go explain the situation to OM fiancé, but doesn't feel the same obligation to explain and apologize to me. She says because she's hated me for so long. That I was a terrible husband, etc. So just when I thought there may have been an emotional breakthrough and I may see remorse she throws more BS at me. She wanted me to stay home from work today so we can work out details (living arrangements, money, etc). 

Last night I started researching mental conditions. I am wondering about bipolar disorder and another condition called addicted to love (like a sex addiction but addicted to the high associated with new love). She has been on antidepressants for years, and there is a family history of mental illness, so perhaps this is possible. She has always tended to cycle between very much in love with me and uninterested in me (which is when she would reach out to OM via email it seems). Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'll update later, but this whole situation has become highly dramatic. It is slowing my progress. After a good weekend emotionally I now find myself feeling bad for her and wanting to help her, and disappointingly also feeling like I wish we could still be together. I guess I'm starting to miss her despite the magnitude of her betrayal. But no worries. I know that feeling must be natural. I will not suggest this to her or show her these feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Drinking to escape her problems. Not a good sign for the future. Her intercourse with OM's fiancée to apologize might be a good sign or bad. If she genuinely admitted to being a POSOW, good. If it was just to say it was all your fault that she tripped and fell on OM when he wasn't wearing pants, well, that is just shifting the blame.

Are you going to meet OM's fiancée to discuss what is going on?


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## finallyready

LongWalk said:


> Drinking to escape her problems. Not a good sign for the future. Her intercourse with OM's fiancée to apologize might be a good sign or bad. If she genuinely admitted to being a POSOW, good. If it was just to say it was all your fault that she tripped and fell on OM when he wasn't wearing pants, well, that is just shifting the blame.
> 
> Are you going to meet OM's fiancée to discuss what is going on?


I have not met her, but we have talked a lot. I will probably meet her at some point, but part of me doesn't want to prolong all of this. Meeting her may just resurface the emotions that I'm working hard to control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

FR

You are doing great. You will have moments like this.

It is why we call it the emotional roller coaster.

Your wife sucks. Tell her to grow up, focus on your kids and the future.

Tell her to stop drinking and face the the divorce like an adult.

Remind her that she is getting exactly what she wanted.....

HM


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## weightlifter

happyman64 said:


> FR
> 
> You are doing great. You will have moments like this.
> 
> It is why we call it the emotional roller coaster.
> 
> Your wife sucks. Tell her to grow up, focus on your kids and the future.
> 
> Tell her to stop drinking and face the the divorce like an adult.
> 
> Remind her that she is getting exactly what she wanted.....
> 
> HM


I was going to respond myself but H64 nailed it. So QFT.


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## Chaparral

Call the Posom's wife. See if your wife told her what her plans are.

You need to let her go if she will not seek help for her mental state. You cant save someone that doesn't want saved.

Now you just need to protect your kids.

Did you go and get her? How do you know she was where she says she was?

The 180 is your friend.........................and hers. Reality can do wonders for a person.


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## GusPolinski

> "don't rush home. I'm on a beach drinking myself stupid"


My reply: "Too late"


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## turnera

finallyready said:


> I have not met her, but we have talked a lot. I will probably meet her at some point, but part of me doesn't want to prolong all of this. Meeting her may just resurface the emotions that I'm working hard to control.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you call OM's fiance to verify your wife actually went there? It seems a little suspect that she went there and then STAYED there for HOURS.


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## turnera

And she disses you and makes you feel like dirt so then you want to help her?

Figure out what's wrong with YOU that you would feel that way.


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## Marduk

Here's one thing I had to learn the hard way.

The human mind has a coping mechanism to deal with lapses in judgement or errors in thinking.

It's called justification. She wanted to screw the other dude, so that meant you had to be the bad guy. So in her mind, you became the bad guy.

She wanted to keep her relationship secret and still have you support her and her kids. So in her mind, she was protecting you, not hurting you, by keeping this hidden.

Then you came along and burst her bubble. This part of her mind is running around like a hamster in a wheel trying to find ways that she's the good person here and you're the bad guy.

The drinking and attempting to explain to the guy's fiancee means she is failing. Her lack of empathy and caring for you shows she's failing. Remember that as Seneca said, "All cruelty springs from weakness." She is displaying extreme weakness disguising itself as strength and cruelty.

Either way, two things are going to happen eventually:

#1 she will need to come face to face with what she has done, which she knows is wrong. The longer she lives in her delusion the more shattering this will be when it finally happens. Maybe not for 10 years when she's sitting there alone and old and has 15 cats.

#2 you will grow, let go, and move on. Nothing she can ever do from this point forward will stop this from happening eventually. You've gone through hell, but unlike her you're going through it quickly. The depths of your despair and pain show that you have depths of emotion and caring that someone else will love about you.

Avoid trauma. Avoid worrying about her lack of empathy or remorse -- in all likelihood it's a cover story. Cut ties as much as you can. Focus on yourself, your kids, your job. Hobbies. Friends. Chase some skirts when you're ready.

Breathe. Live.

This will get better. And her hell is just beginning.


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