# I thought we were back on track...



## Lonelymarch (Jan 4, 2011)

Please forgive me for this long post, I felt I need to tell the whole story so you all could understand where we are coming from.
My wife and I have been married for 11 years, I am 41, she is 36. We only dated for a year before getting married. I am from western europe, she is from eastern europe, I met her in her country and we currently live there. Shortly after getting married, we lived in a third country for a while, where I was working a lot, she was staying at home. This is when she started imagining I was cheating on her with one of my female co-workers. I saw she was jealous and suspicious but only answered that there was nothing to worry about, that I was not cheating in any way. Only after we left from there two years later did I start to realize that she was more and more convinced I had cheated on her. Nothing I could do or say would make her think otherwise. By then, it was already too late to actually confront the co-worker (I would have liked to do that, so we could clear out the doubt, hopefully). But we had left that country already. So she kept thinking I was a cheater. We went on with our life, then our first boy was born. That was 4 years into the marriage. All nice and fine, or so I thought. Three years later (7 years in the marriage, yes), I was working a lot, sometimes at night (it is the nature of te job, not a personnal choice, and it had so be done somehow). It seemed like we were drifting apart. She was watching her shows on tv, I was playing on the computer. She would complain I was not spending time with her, and I would answer that we should at least choose together what to watch on tv, so I would come close to her. But she was stubborn and did not want to compromise, so I was keeping on playing on the computer. Then, that gut feeling showed up. Something was not right, but I couldn't pin-point it. I asked her if anything was wrong, told her that I felt we had drifted apart. She replied that there was no problem, everything was well between us, she was just a little tired. I asked if there was someone else, and she said she would never cheat on me, bla bla bla... My gut feeling was still there, fueled by several small details. I decided to talk to Harry, our employee at the small shop we own in town. I told him about my gut feeling and asked him if my wife would sometimes go missing during the day. He told me she was not, but insisted that if I was feeling something was wrong, I should talk to my wife about it. So I decided I had to figure out what was happening and installed a keylogger on our home computer. It only took one night (I was away at work) to get results. She had written a passionate love letter and was presenting it to one of her girlfriends before to send it to the guy she was after. It turned out it was Harry's brother, Baldy... She had seen Baldy a few times at the shop and had fallen for him. By then, she was only trying to catch his attention, there had been no contact yet and she was desperately trying to find his phone number, email address, etc... Harry was keeping that information secret, to protect our marriage. That was the reason he had been insisting I talk to my wife about my feeling something was off. My world suddenly fell apart, my knees litterally collapsed under me, I was feeling like I wanted to throw up, my heart was pounding, I was gasping for air... I never had imagined discovering such a thing could have such a strong physical effect. How was this happening to me ? I confronted her in the evening. At first, she played the fool and pretended not to understand what I was talking about. Then I showed her the letter. She started screaming at me that I had ruined a surprise she was preparing and pretended the letter was intended to me... I could not believe my eyes and ears. The way she was lying to my face, with hate in her eyes. She had always told me there were two categories of people she couldn't bear : liars and cheaters. And there she was... I confronted her with the evidence proving the letter was actually for Baldy, and she admitted to everything, saying that, as I knew, nothing had actually been going on between them, that she had made a mistake and that it was over, it wouldn't happen anymore, bla bla bla... I asked how we had gotten there. She replied that we had drifted apart because she felt I was not giving our family any interest, we were just like room-mates. She had felt that she just did not want to be with me anymore. I was so desperate, I finally took the blame on me, and promised to give her more attention, so we would never be in this situation anymore. What a fool I was...

My "luck" was that she hadn't realized how she had got caught. And continued using the "keylogged" computer. I soon realized she was still after Baldy. Fortunately, he was leaving the country for a 6 months assignment, and there was no way he'd be back in the meantime.
My wife eventually found Baldy's email address and started sending him very sexually explicit letters. I knew at this point that something had to be done, but did not feel I would have a strong enough impact on her, so talked to our wedding's godparents, Bessy and Tom. Bessy is my wife's highschool best friend. I told them the whole story and sent them some of the evidence I had gathered. Bessy called my wife and they talked for several hours. Bessy told me my wife realized she was not doing the right thing and that she needed to be left alone to let it dissipate in time. After all, Baldy was away for a while, so it might turn out OK.
I reluctantly agreed with Bessy to ease the pressure. But I kept monitorizing, and saw they had started to chat online. Baldy, knowing who she was, was keeping a distance. Mostly it was small talk, and only my wife was sometimes pushing it to a more sexual discussion. He was still cautious about what he was writing. While I was at work during the night, she would write awfull stuff about me, saying I was most probably even not at work, but just cheating on her, etc... Baldy replied that I might actually be working. He also said she should be carefull what she was writing, because I could have installed some software on the computer that logs everything. That did not raise any flag in her mind. Baldy told my wife that as long as she was married, nothing would happen between them. In the following months, I confronted my wife about her still being in touch with Baldy, and she told me the only way we could recover was to let her do what she had to do and that it would eventually dissipate in time.
As Baldy's return got closer, seeing they were still in touch, I decided something had to be done to avoid this going further. Baldy was politely asked (not by me) to back off and ignore my wife. Which he obviously did. Soon after that, she wrote me a message (I was away for a few days, for work) saying she had finally got the signs that she was cured and that she would totally dedicate herself to our relationship.
We decided that a three month break from our surroundings would be beneficial, so I got an assignment abroad and left with my wife and our son. This way we could reconnect. Everything was fine and we felt much better about each other. My wife said that she felt I cared about her and the kid, that she could see the change in my attitude. One month after we came back home (to her country), she got pregnant with our second son. He was born in 2008. I spent a great deal of time taking care of him, even changed my job to have more time for my family. Everything was looking back on track.

About a year ago, after receiving dozens of invitation from a friend of ours, my wife created a Facebook account. She did not mention it to me but I knew because she started receiving notifications on her email address. I quickly guessed the FB account's password, and checked from time to time what was going on with this. I realized nothing was going on, the only friend she had in the list was the guy who had invited her. I should mention that the keylogger software has been removed for long from our computer, I felt I trusted my wife enough not to monitor her anymore, a long time ago.
Last summer (2010) we are in a foreign country on vacation. My wife made friends with a female staff (Cathy) of the hotel we were staying at, who was taking care of the kids during the day. They exchanged email addresses. Shortly after we came back from holidays, my wife added an address to Yahoo Messenger's list of friends saying it was Cathy's account. The address was not Cathy's name. My wife would pick up the laptop and go chat with Cathy in the kitchen, alone. It did not seem too strange to me (she also smokes in the kitchen, so I figured she wanted a smoke while chatting) so I did not worry.
Come the end of august and I am sent for a two weeks assignment for work in a foreign country. Out of boredom, I decide to log in my wife's Facebook account. Something I hadn't done for months. And - what a surprise-, I discover she has several new friends on her friends' list. And there is a message for her from one of them : "Hello darling. I miss you". I look at the guy's name : it's the same name as the messenger account my wife was pretending is Cathy's. And I recognize the guy on his profile picture : he's the chef (let's call him Chiefy) of the restaurant at the same hotel. Back during our vacation I had seen my wife chatting with him a couple times around the buffet. Hadn't realized something fishy might be going on though. Another of her friends is Baldy. And she recently commented some of his pictures. I confronted my wife through Messenger about all this and she came with lame excuses : she doesn't know how Chiefy got her email address , probably he got it from the hotel's reception; when he sent a request to her yahoo messenger's account, she assumed it was Cathy; anybody could visit her facebook account and she doesn't know what this guy wants from her. Later she admitted that they had normal discussions and when Chiefy got more insistent, she cut it off... And about Baldy, she just said that what has been in the past is long forgotten and that they actually have a normal "good day ma'm" relation when he comes to the shop to visit his brother Harry.
I then wrote her a message saying that she should realize how insecure it makes me feel to know that she seeks relations with other men (as innocent as she pretends they can be) and that getting emotionally involved with someone else without my knowledge is actually cheating. She obviously became madly angry at me for writing this and replied that she never cheated and would never cheat on me as long as we were married, and that I had no lessons to give her when it comes to cheating, because I should remember that I have a debt towards her on this matter (I assume she referred to this myth of me cheating on her, way back in time). She also said that I have always tried to control her, that I had only managed to destroy her self-esteem and that she has never actually felt loved by me at anytime in our relationship.
When I came back home, I tried to make everything right, to make her feel loved, we made improvements in the house, installed new curtains in several rooms, bought a new bed for the kids, bought new kitchen furniture, all kinds of things we've been wanting to do but did not have time/money to do. I tried to show her that I care about her and our family. And I told her as well. Many times.
Lately, my wife has gotten into all sorts of paranormal spiritual fantasies and thinks she can see her (and other people's ) previous lifes on earth. She has told Harry that in a previous life, she used to be married to Baldy. They were hunters. I was the bear who killed Baldy in a hunt. Harry told me about it, and tells me he too feels something is off with her behaviour. Harry told my wife that whatever she thinks, nothing is ever going to happen between her and Baldy. She also told me that she "visited" my memories one night, and found evidence I had cheated on her back then, with that co-worker. She "saw" us having sexual intercourse on the sofa, she "saw" that I had at some stage my luggage ready and was about to leave my wife, but had backed off... Scary. Really.
This can't go on, I am tired of being disrespected in this manner. But I want everything to be ok, I still love her and want us to live together as a family. I think of our kids as well, who would suffer so much if anything happened.
Now I am again abroad for work and need a plan to put in application when I get back home. The situation has become so complex, I don't know anymore what I should do. I was hoping to get a fresh opinion from you on this forum. I need your help.

Thanks for reading

Lonelymarch


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Lonelymarch, Read the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me". Sounds like your wife has a Borderline Personality Disorder or tendencies. She needs help real bad.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree:. She is a train wreck. She needs meds.


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## Michael610 (Sep 20, 2010)

I haven't read the book that Workingitout mentions, but I've heard of it and it sounds like something you should check out. Beyond that, I wish I knew what else you could do on your own that might help save your marriage, but I really think that she needs to see someone for counseling/therapy, both alone and with you. You should also go yourself, even if she refuses, because you probably need some support in dealing with any other steps you might take, in whichever direction those steps may be.


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## Lonelymarch (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you Workingitout, and the others for your replies.

I shall look for the book, and have read online about Borderline Personality Disorder last night . WOW. Didn't see that one coming. Nevertheless, I come to realize there were some symptoms (not extreme) that were visible from the very beginning. I guess I just thought "let's be open and tolerant, let's love the person for who she is". Now I wonder if it would have helped her had I been more firm.

Michael610, I did, back in 2007 with the start of the Baldy affair, offer her to go together to counselling. She dismissed it quickly. And unfortunately I did not insist. Maybe that would have been the best time.

My problem today is - apart from her condition, should it be confirmed - how do I deal with our couple's issues ? Do they still qualify for a "plan A" method (I tell her all contacts need to end, she complies to full transparency, she commits to work on her issues and to our marriage and family, or she leaves the house) ?

How do you convince someone that he needs medical (psychiatric) advice ?

I look forward to your answers.

Lonelymarch


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

As long as she thinks she can play around without any consequences she will. 

You have to make it clear to her that your marriage is at stake. Give her an ultimatum - stop her games, break contact with all of the men, no more secrets on FB etc and counselling or you leave her and fight for custody of the kids.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Your wife needs to respect the proper boundaries of marriage. All this mumbo-jumbo about you cheating is a cop out, to justify her reasoning for having EAs. If she really thought you did something and wanted to pay you back, she would of had a PA a long time ago. People don't wait years to have "revenge sex." She likes the game of attention she get's from other. Give her an ultimatum of zero contact with these guys or else. Let's see how brave she is if she thinks you are step from walking out the door.


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## Lonelymarch (Jan 4, 2011)

Jamesa, RWB and Rob774, that's exactly what I have in mind right now. Although practically, what should I tell her ? She leaves the house or I do ? Because it seemed clear to me from other posts I read here that there is no reason the BS should leave the house (nor should the kids). It's the WS that has to leave, as a consequence to her (his) choices. Another point is that she will definitely argue -it has happened in the past- that I too, cheated on her (although you and I know it's not the case). What is the correct reaction when she takes that road ? And about the transparency condition (access to FB account, email, phone, etc), I know she will bring up the usual "you are trying to control me" complaint. What's the argument against this ?

Thanks

Lonelymarch


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Lonelymarch said:


> Another point is that she will definitely argue -it has happened in the past- that I too, cheated on her (although you and I know it's not the case). What is the correct reaction when she takes that road ?


Any evidence? No? Shut up.



Lonelymarch said:


> And about the transparency condition (access to FB account, email, phone, etc), I know she will bring up the usual "you are trying to control me" complaint. What's the argument against this ?


Tell her you wouldn't need this if she hadn't behaved in a way to make it necessary.


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## dadda11o (Jan 6, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> Your wife needs to respect the proper boundaries of marriage. All this mumbo-jumbo about you cheating is a cop out, to justify her reasoning for having EAs. If she really thought you did something and wanted to pay you back, she would of had a PA a long time ago. People don't wait years to have "revenge sex." She likes the game of attention she get's from other. Give her an ultimatum of zero contact with these guys or else. Let's see how brave she is if she thinks you are step from walking out the door.


If his wife does suffer from BPD, she has trouble with boundaries and relationships to begin with. I would almost guarantee she'll have a meltdown if he is walking out the door. There can be a lot of high drama with a person who has this disorder...in fact, a lot of therapists don't relish the thought of taking on a client who has it. But if she does suffer from that (or some other problem), it's hard to see where "amateur therapy" is going to help, UNLESS you're up for a full-time experience. BPD has to do with childhood trauma, as I recall, so you would not be dealing with a mature, adult personality. I would suggest making efforts to find out what, if anything, is going on with her, psychologically speaking. One other caveat: there are a lot of "therapists" out there; they're not all going to be proficient. I ended up being diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was actually having panic attacks! I can only let you guess how negatively that affected my life...there are diagnostic tests that can be a better guide than just having interviews where the treating therapist draws their own conclusion...finally, medications can be helpful, but they're often overused. Many times, people with psychological difficulties (seem to) get worse before they get better...there can be a lot of baggage to deal with...if a person can handle the pain of dragging some of it out and looking at it, they can also get rid of some of it and learn new ways of seeing the present and responding in it. It isn't necessarily an easy road, but seeing it through can be incredibly worthwhile. I wish you the best through this!


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

As a woman who was diagnosed with BPD many years ago, among many other things, I can tell you this much.....she will NOT change without therapy. Medications cannot help with impulse control. Behavior modification therapy is the route she will have to take. People with BPD are generally either addicted to drugs, have alcohol issues, spend money freely or are promiscuous. Some "authorities" on the subject of BPD say the person afflicted will never change but, that is simply not true. You have to want to change. I wish you luck in regards to your situation.


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## MayfairJaz (Jan 17, 2011)

jamesa said:


> As long as she thinks she can play around without any consequences she will.
> 
> You have to make it clear to her that your marriage is at stake. Give her an ultimatum - stop her games, break contact with all of the men, no more secrets on FB etc and counselling or you leave her and fight for custody of the kids.


 :iagree:

That statement is the bottom line - I so hate to say that but seems from your information given that you will have to make a VERY hard decision soon enough. I only wish that she could see these posts here. 

God bless you and keep you safe from any more EA harm .


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## Lonelymarch (Jan 4, 2011)

I am reviving this post, because I am about to finish my assignment abroad, and shall be coming home soon. Since I started this thread, here's what happened :

-I read the book "I hate you, don't leave me". I have to say that although some of her behavior has similarities to the symptoms of BPD (Borderline personality disorder), I don't think my wife is affected by it. I don't see in her the main chracteristics people suffering from BPD display. As for her childhood, I have never heard of any form of mistreatment by her elders. I hope I'm right. I've also looked at other forms of personality disorders, and again I couldn't clearly identify one that fits her, although, some of the symptoms seemed to fit. I guess we all display to some degree some of the signs of these deseases.

-She came to visit me a couple weeks ago, for a week. I considered the time and conditions were not right for any form of confrontation and decided to behave as if nothing was happening. It was tough. She behaved in a lovely way and there was nothing that showed she does what I know she does. But that's not new and I'm used to it. I had my laptop keylogged, but she never opened her FB account for the whole week she was here... Back home, she literally spends her days on it.

So, I'm getting ready to have a serious discussion/confrontation with her about her behaviour in the last six months.
My intention is to start a discussion where I will first ask her how she feels about our relationship, if she feels fulfilled in it. I know she will answer that everything is fine and that she feels very well in this marriage (I know she will, that's what she always says). I think this is very important, because later in the discussion, she might start trying to defend herself saying that anyway she never felt loved, etc.., as she already did in the past.
Then I'll tell her that if any of us has issues about the relationship, we should openly discuss them and work together to solve them, because that's what a couple is about. She will agree.
I'll tell her that I love her and that this familly is my priority and that I'll always make anything in my power to make it work.
Then, I'll talk about her behaviour lately, and says that I will not tolerate any of this anymore. I'll set very clear boundaries and give her the choice to either stop everything this minute and commit to proving it to me, or I'm walking out.
I'm still a bit confused about this walking out stuff. I think she should be the one walking out, there is no reason I should be punished and not be with my kids, as she is the one who engaged in improper behaviour. Problem is, we live in her parents' apartment (No, they're not with us, they moved to another place). We own an apartment, but we considered some time ago it's too small for our family and rented it. Is it morally acceptable that I throw her out of her parents' place ? 
Now, about the timing. Right now, the evidence I have is quite old (two to six months ago) and I am afraid if I only bring this in the discussion, she might dismiss it saying she's done with this behaviour. Should I wait for a couple weeks, to let me time to install a keylogger at home, and gather some more "fresh" evidence ?

I welcome any other input from you here

Many thanks
Lonelymarch


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You should spend time planning your words and steps. You do not leave your home, you confront her, your boundaries to restore the marriage and trust must be set out, the terms for her to stay in the marriage can be found on more detail under the articles section of the affaircare.com site. In summary your wife commits to no contact, full transparency and commitment to the marriage. 

Do not be manipulated to support her behaviours and stop being a nice guy, she will only respect you if you set a high standard of boundaries for the marriage, furthermore do not assume you mus not change. Buy the "His needs Her needs" by Harley it will give you some guidance as to what to look at in you relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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