# Wife had an affair, positive comments only, please



## hurtingtechguy

Really looking for positive comments and encouragement, I already have plenty of negativity.

Backround:
I am 44 my wife is 42, been married for 16 years and have 3 great kids, 17, 14, & 11. We both work full time and drive to work together everyday (my wife doesn't drive any more she developed some type of fear of driving about 5 years ago. This is what makes my situation a little different, I was driving her to have an affair....).

Situation: (apologize if I am all over the place)
About 5 months ago I caught my wife having an affair with someone her office does business with. Before catching her the affair went on for at least 6 months, although, I believe it was much longer than that. As a side note, this is not the first time my wife has cheated on me. She cheated with an exboyfriend very early in our marriage (I was able to dismiss this fairly easily as our marriage did not start off as a typical marriage, it was rough going in the beginning and neither of us I think were ready for it). 

Back to the current situation.
I love my wife with everything I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family, but, am struggling terribly. I want my marriage to survive and thrive in a positive and happy direction, but, my fears of this happening again, not being able to forget things I learned that happened in this affair (I am an IT specialist and when I found out about this I was able to find and read her messages and internet search history, bothers me she did things with another man that I wanted her to do with me. Also bothers me that she was in communication with him on days like Christmas (now I hate Christmas) and while I spent some time in the hospital, I was in the hospital and she was communicating with him!). I am also scared it is still going on at some level, she still works at the same job (very small office, 2 people) and claims she has had no contact with him, I am having a very hard time believing this as I know her office does business with this person. All this said I want to believe my wife and have our marriage get through this. Problem is my own mind and thoughts are preventing any type of progress.

I could type for days on more details, but, don't know what else is relevant. Please feel free to ask anything, I am a 100% open book, just looking for help and encouragement.


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## GusPolinski

So you're married to a serial wayward that is lying to you about having no contact w/ her latest AP.

I'm positive that you should file for divorce ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert

well if you are going to try R she has to change jobs.

Is the OM married or have a girl friend? if so Expose


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## MrsAldi

@hurtingtechguy
I'm sorry that you are hurting. 

Have you and your wife considered counselling? 
Is she remorseful? 
What excuses did she say for having an affair? 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## tropicalbeachiwish

You're not going to leave her and she knows that. Why are you staying in the marriage? Because of the kids? If so, you just have to stick it out for 7 more years.


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## See_Listen_Love

hurtingtechguy said:


> Really looking for positive comments and encouragement, I already have plenty of negativity.
> 
> I could type for days on more details, but, don't know what else is relevant. Please feel free to ask anything, I am a 100% open book, just looking for help and encouragement.


Sorry for your situation. But have some optimism in the fact that you landed in the #1 place that will help you progress on your situation, be it with her or without her.

You will be asked to give much more details to get accurate advise though, especially for the evaluation of her present state of still being in the/or another affair...


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## snerg

I was originally was going to type out a long thought, but read over your post again and decided to make it simple

Your wife is a serial cheater. *She will never stop*. There is a real high probability that she has had several more affairs that you have no clue about.

You - you are far too codependent. The fact that you won't divorce and apply a consequence shows that she can walk all over you because she knows you are her doormat.

You - do the following:
1) IC today - you need to talk with a therapist that deals with infidelity recovery (for you not your marriage)
2) Lawyer - you need to know your rights
3) Get your finances in order
4) Get your backside to a doctor today and get STD, HIV, HEP C battery of tests - your life depends on it!
5) Start divorce with lawyer in step 2
6) Eat correctly
7) drink plenty of water
8) get as much sleep as you can
9) expose - far and wide
10) start 180 - your mental well being depends on it

As I have stated in other threads:
Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## ButtPunch

OP

Please see a therapist for your codependency.


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## hurtingtechguy

MrsAldi said:


> @hurtingtechguy
> I'm sorry that you are hurting.
> 
> Have you and your wife considered counselling?
> Is she remorseful?
> What excuses did she say for having an affair?
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


We have been to counselling and it hasn't really helped.

She seems to be very remorseful.

Her excuses were the typical bull****. In reality it was due to her lack of self confidence and when someone showed interest it made her feel good and selfishness took over.

A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


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## zookeeper

Asking for positive responses only sounds a lot like an attempt to deny some truth that you fear. Don't do this. Seek the truth of your situation, whatever that is.


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## hurtingtechguy

convert said:


> well if you are going to try R she has to change jobs.
> 
> Is the OM married or have a girl friend? if so Expose


The OM is married and has a serious track history of cheating on his wife and pursuing other women.


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## Mr.Fisty

Well, this will be an ongoing occurrence until she changes, has boundaries. She is the same person with the same programming and likely to occur again and again.

So, you have a better understanding of her and what is likely to happen. If you want this relationship, but you also need to lose it at the same time, she needs to seek ongoing help to resolve her issues. I would be supportive and yet detached to a certain degree at the same time so if things do not work out, it would not hurt as much and make it easier to move on. You cannot trust the person she is now and if she is motivated enough to change, perhaps she can change into someone you can trust.

In the meantime, you should protect yourself and find out your options just in case.


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## Evinrude58

Reality:

Your wife is as you describe. She's going to cheat anytime someone shows her attention. At least that's what it looks like.

Positive: You say your wife is remorseful. That's good.
What you need to tell us is why you think she is remorseful and truly sorry about what she did, or is she just worried her meal ticket and free ride to work is in jeopardy? That's what you need to determine. If the other man has to take her to work and deal with all her problems, I guarantee he will be history.
If she's still working with the guy in a small office, she's either still doing him or he's dumped her. That simple, really.

Positive: Your wife really may be remorseful if you've been a good husband.

Positive: If you went about things right, which is start the divorce process and have the iron will to shut her off emotionally and show her you won't tolerate cheating, she may experience enough consequences to be afraid to do this again. Because if she gets attention from a new man, she's most likely going to WANT to cheat again. It's an obvious pattern.

Positive: You can serve her divorce papers, and not go through with it.

If you rug sweep this and go forward and try to nice her back, she will have no respect, Know there's no consequences to her cheating, and it WILL happen again most likely. Provide severe consequences or expect a repeat performance.

GOod luck,
I know this crushes you, the pain is relentless, etc. BUt if you can be strong and institute some obvious changes in your life and interactions with your wife, I think it's possible to fix it if she's truly remorseful. Finding out if she is truly remorseful and not just dreading consequences is probably the hard part.


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## Bananapeel

You really only have two choices. You can either accept your wife for who she is with all of the good and bad or divorce her. What do you want? You can't change who she is so that is not an option.


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## badmemory

hurtingtechguy said:


> Really looking for positive comments and encouragement, I already have plenty of negativity.


How about a positive outcome. That's what you're really looking for isn't it? What's best for you?

It's foolish to rule out divorce. Because based on your wife being a serial cheater and still being in contact with OM; it's very likely she will cheat again. That, made all the more likely because she knows you are afraid of D. In the mean time, the mind movies will cause you constant misery and growing regret. 

You can't see it right now, but divorce can be a "positive" outcome for you.


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## TAM2013

hurtingtechguy said:


> Problem is my own mind and thoughts are preventing any type of progress.


No. Your gut is preventing any kind of progress and is one step ahead of you. Listen to it. She's toxic.

Remove and repair.


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## ButtPunch

This is her second time to cheat.

He needs to divorce her.


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## naiveonedave

hurtingtechguy said:


> A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


Unfortunately, none of the comments are wrong. You have to be willing to lose your M to save it. Clearly your wife was willing to lose the M, or she wouldn't have had an A.

I am sorry you are here, but you need to a) take care of yourself, b) be decisive and c) be strong. This sucks, but you can't live long knowing your W is in an A. It will slowly drain you to a very bad space. You need out of infidelity, exposure and filing D do this. Sometimes the wayward spouse comes back, but that is much less up to you than her. Rug sweeping wont' help, either.


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## 5Creed

hurtingtechguy said:


> The OM is married and has a serious track history of cheating on his wife and pursuing other women.


A perfect storm for these two to find each other and get together then. OP-this is going to be difficult for you. Finding this out; especially when she has done it before and you kind of let it go-probably makes you feel like you just want it all to go away. You don't want this to be happening and even denying some of it feels like a good coping skill. Sadly; this won't go away on it's own. You stated you wanted to hear positive things. Your marriage might or might not be something that can be saved. It will take both of you to do it. All in. That means both of you. She has done this before so that isn't a good thing. Find out all of your options so you can protect yourself. This means financially and emotionally. Stick around here and talk this all out. It really will help you in the end.


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## MrsAldi

hurtingtechguy said:


> We have been to counselling and it hasn't really helped.
> 
> She seems to be very remorseful.
> 
> Her excuses were the typical bull****. In reality it was due to her lack of self confidence and when someone showed interest it made her feel good and selfishness took over.
> 
> A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


Why hasn't the counselling helped? 
Some people go through a few therapists before finding the right one. 
You need to repair the damage if you want to continue in this marriage.

OM sounds like a professional philandering a$$, so perhaps that's why she's remorseful. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Tatsuhiko

I know you want only positive comments, but there's nothing positive to say.

She needs to feel the sting of losing you for good. You need to file for divorce and start taking concrete tangible steps towards that so that it becomes a reality she's facing. Maybe then she'll hit rock bottom and realize what she's done. But in all honesty, this seems to be a pattern that she'll repeat for the rest of her life. You know about two affairs. How many are there that you _don't_ know about?


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## naiveonedave

MrsAldi said:


> Why hasn't the counselling helped?
> Some people go through a few therapists before finding the right one.
> You need to repair the damage if you want to continue in this marriage.
> 
> OM sounds like a professional philandering a$$, so perhaps that's why she's remorseful.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Marriage counseling with someone actively in an affair is going to be worthless. Until she is out of the affair fog, it is just tossing time and money away.


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## Hope1964

You have no intention of leaving? Well then, kick HER sorry a$$ out right now. She's a serial cheater and totally not remorseful. She sure does have you tricked!!

If you only get ONE THING out of this, it should be to get STD tested. Might as well DNA the kids too. Who knows who she was screwing 10-20 years ago.

You probably won't come back after being told the way it is because it's pretty obvious you don't want to hear it. In that case PLEASE wear a condom every single time you have sex with her from now on. That will at least provide you with SOME measure of protection from her sloppy seconds.


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## Hope1964

Also, I don't know why you posted this in Coping with Infidelity. You aren't coping with anything. You're pulling your pants down and serving your butt up to your wife to kick repeatedly.


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## TX-SC

Rather than berate you and tell you that you need to divorce her I'll take you at your word when you say you have no intention to leave her but want to fix your marriage. The very first thing you need to do is see a lawyer and discuss your options. Your wife should also know that you are seeing this lawyer. The purpose of this is so that you know your options moving forward and don't make any huge mistakes. It will also show your wife that you are not playing games here. 

Unless her company stops doing business with this man, you will need to insist she quit her job. There is no other option. 

She must see an IC and eventually you can both see a MC. But, first she gets her own self figured out. 

You have to show her that you can and WILL live without her if she doesn't change. She is a serial cheater and it is hard to change the thought process of someone who does this. They don't value the sanctity of marriage and they don't have empathy for their spouse. This will be a tough road for you.

Lastly, no matter that you THINK you know, have your children DNA tested to verify there have not been other episodes along the way. She is a serial cheater and you simply cannot assume anything about her.


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## Acoa

hurtingtechguy said:


> We have been to counselling and it hasn't really helped.
> 
> She seems to be very remorseful.
> 
> Her excuses were the typical bull****. In reality it was due to her lack of self confidence and when someone showed interest it made her feel good and selfishness took over.
> 
> A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


Counselling needs absolute honesty to be effective. You have to ask yourself, who wasn't sharing everything? You or her?

"Seems to be" remorseful and genuine remorse look very different. If she is sad, and begging and bombing you with words of love, affirmation and regret. That's what we call "acting". Look at what she is doing. Has she left her job? Informed AP's wife of the affair? Started finding ways to touch base with you throughout the day so you know what she is up to? No? Then that's not remorse. That's regret for getting caught and frustration. Either frustration about how to carry on the affair without your knowledge or frustration that her AP isn't in contact now that he feels it can't be kept secret. 

You said it yourself, she liked the interest he was giving her. She wants that attention. Look up chumplady and the theory of cake eating. You took away her cake and she is pouting. She will give you kibbles until you let your guard down and she finds more cake. This wasn't a mistake, it was calculated and ongoing (and not her first time). You can't "fix" her or do anything to stop it from happening again. You either choose to live with the risk or move on without her. Both involve some pain, but you get to choose, so choose wisely.


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## Lostinthought61

I know your hurting, i know you want to keep your family together....i get that, most people here do....but at same time, sooner or later you have to face reality that you are married to a serial cheater....and the fact you did nothing about the first time nor did you do anything the second time, legitimizes her actions, she sees you as cuckold husband who will never leave her, is willing to be a doormat, and will ALWAYS be plan B. If you accept that, then what we say, or what anyone else says should not matter, you know your role, you will not expose her actions to your kids nor anyone else, nor will you expose the OM because you are bearing her shame upon you. 

You are the classic sinner eater....other people's transgression gets absorb by you....i hope you become a saint. I do not know many men who would put up with this.


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## hurtingtechguy

all of these comments are a lot to swallow.....

in regards to the job, she has said she would leave (whether she would or not is a question), but, i have asked her not to due to financial reasons, probably very wrong of me.


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## hurtingtechguy

Xenote said:


> I know your hurting, i know you want to keep your family together....i get that, most people here do....but at same time, sooner or later you have to face reality that you are married to a serial cheater....and the fact you did nothing about the first time nor did you do anything the second time, legitimizes her actions, she sees you as cuckold husband who will never leave her, is willing to be a doormat, and will ALWAYS be plan B. If you accept that, then what we say, or what anyone else says should not matter, you know your role, you will not expose her actions to your kids nor anyone else, nor will you expose the OM because you are bearing her shame upon you.
> 
> You are the classic sinner eater....other people's transgression gets absorb by you....i hope you become a saint. I do not know many men who would put up with this.


for what its worth, my kids are all well aware of the situation.


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## naiveonedave

hurtingtechguy said:


> all of these comments are a lot to swallow.....
> 
> in regards to the job, she has said she would leave (whether she would or not is a question), but, i have asked her not to due to financial reasons, probably very wrong of me.


it was actually very weak of you, she see's it as a green light to continue.


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## Herschel

hurtingtechguy said:


> I love my wife with everything I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family, but, am struggling terribly.


Look man, I want to be positive (and by positive, I assume you mean say only good things that will make your family continue), but there isn't anything positive to say. You love your wife with everything. She wanted outside ****. How can she say she loves you with everything when some other guy was ramming her, making her orgasm and lie to you and enjoy it so much she probably thought about it while she was with you, not with you whatever. 

I want to reiterate your quote. 



hurtingtechguy said:


> I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her


Dude, she left you. You aren't doing anything at all. She walked out the door, grabbed a penis and rode it. For whatever reason, she thought THAT would be the best way to handle it. She doesn't love you like a husband anymore and the longer you let this fester and not act on it, the longer it will take you to restart your life. She isn't the person you thought she was. She isn't who you fell in love with. You are married to someone who is ****ing someone else. Think about that. Think about what you would tell your brother or sister. Get your head out of the cloud and come back down to earth.


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## farsidejunky

Can I ask you an honest question, HTG?

Don't you think you deserve better than a spouse who doesn't honor fidelity?


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## citygirl4344

I think there is no way you can think about reconciliation if she is in a job that she can have interaction with the other man. She has proven that she will cheat not once but twice. All that really means is she will cheat again if given the opportunity.
She needs a new job and you both have to want to make the marriage work for MC to be effective.

You need to give her consequences for what she has done...complete transparency. Detach. Figure out If this is even worth it after she cheated twice that you know of.

Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BetrayedDad

hurtingtechguy said:


> I love my wife with everything I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family, but, am struggling terribly.


Then you will continue to struggle forever. If leaving her is not even on the table why the hell would she stop? There are NO repercussions for her.


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a moderator:

It is possible to issue a 2x4 without using derogatory terms such as cuckold. 

Any further infractions of this nature will result in 2 day time out.


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## GusPolinski

hurtingtechguy said:


> We have been to counselling and it hasn't really helped.
> 
> She seems to be very remorseful.
> 
> Her excuses were the typical bull****. In reality it was due to her lack of self confidence and when someone showed interest it made her feel good and selfishness took over.
> 
> A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


She's lying about NC, and _you KNOW it._ Her lies are about protecting _herself_ from the natural consequences of her actions. 

So, for as long as she's lying, she's being selfish, and it therefore follows that she CANNOT be remorseful.

Regretful? Maybe, but that's not the same thing.

It's like you're trying to bake a cake w/ half the ingredients -- which only your wife can provide, BTW -- and expect to come out w/ anything other than a flat, inedible mess.

If you want to reconcile, she HAS to a) quit the job ASAP, b) block any and all avenues for contact w/ this guy (changing phone numbers, email addresses, blocking him on social media and/or quitting social media altogether), and c) commit to 100% transparency in all things (freely sharing passwords, etc).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

hurtingtechguy said:


> all of these comments are a lot to swallow.....
> 
> in regards to the job, she has said she would leave (whether she would or not is a question), but, i have asked her not to due to financial reasons, probably very wrong of me.


Why?!? This is a work place affair correct? She doesn't drive correct?

So she's having sex with him AT WORK and you told her to STAY THERE?

Is money really more important to you than your wife sleeping with the OM?

My god man, if you're going to submit to an open relationship at least go get some too.


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## straightshooter

Tech Guy

You are obviously very intelligent in order to be a tech guy. I am just a "C" student jock but in your original post you asked for only positive comments. Sorry my friend, i do not think too many people on any forum are going to congratulate you and tell you that you are in a wonderful situation with a wife who is cheating on you, and who you are going to stay married to no matter what she does.

I am not telling you to divorce her but the minute you make the statement that you are staying regardless of what she does or does not do the game is over. it is called the pick me game and the BH always loses. let's leave out the initial cheating early in the marriage ( really stupid) but to placate you i will leave that alone. So that way we can avoid calling her what it appears and the word for that is serial cheater.

Now, you can go to a therapist or buy every book known to man, and the FIRST things you are going to find recommended are
*NO CONTACT WITH OM*-- that means especially if she is in a small office you are currently watching her go out the door to spend 8-10 hours a few feet away from a man she was having sex with. Does that sound smart to you or POSITIVE. 
*TOTAL TRANSPARENCY*- that means you have every password and you should be an expert at snooping. The problem is she can talk to him at work all day long so this is not really meaning much.

As other have pointed out, you have two clear choices here
(1) either you play the begging husband who takes whatever scraps she is willing to do
(2) you take control of yourself and you determine what is going to happen here.

I realize I am not being nice here because what I and the others who have responded to know exactly what is in store for you if you continue on doing absolutely nothing but convincing her that she is free to restart the affair ( if it has really stopped) at any time because you will continue to eat the **** sandwich.

If you want to choose option #1 above, i suggest to repost on a polyamory or open marriage website where you will get positive responses and support in sharing your wife and how to cope with it and remain married. 

Now if you want serious advice, notice here not one person has told you what you are doing is the way to get out of infidelity. 

So if you are still interested in doing something to help yourself, I suggest the following
(1) she quits the job, like immediately
(2) if this guy is married you tell his wife and you do not tell your wife you are going to do that. The most effective way initially to end an affair is to have the OM trying to save his own ass rather than continue to bang your wife.
(3) you use your tech skills to monitor her computer and phone use and you DO NOT believe a damm thing she tells you
(4) you get a WRITTEN timeline from her, actually two of them. One is "G" rated in case you do not want all the gory details. The other is "X"rated" in case you do want them at some point. That also makes it more difficult for her to re write history
(5) you DO NOT go near a marriage therapist until you are 100% certain she is not still involved with him.
(6) you see an attorney and you let her know you are doing that to find out your rights. That will reverse her thought process which now is that you are going to rugsweep this and "get over it".

Now I know this is harsh and I apologize, but it is time for you to decide if you really want to get out of infidelity OR if you want to stay married at ALL costs. 

Notice I have NOT told you to divorce her or kick her out. I have told you that the reality is that you may not be able to have both of the above. if you continue to do what you are doing, you will remain in an open marriage.


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## hurtingtechguy

BetrayedDad said:


> Why?!? This is a work place affair correct? She doesn't drive correct?
> 
> So she's having sex with him AT WORK and you told her to STAY THERE?
> 
> Is money really more important to you than your wife sleeping with the OM?
> 
> My god man, if you're going to submit to an open relationship at least go get some too.


not that it makes it any better, but, the person doesn't work there, just does business with the company. i dont even know what to say after reading all these comment, i am truly an idiot......


----------



## Hope1964

Telling her not to leave her job was a HUGE MISTAKE, yes. But thankfully one you can fix. Leaving her job needs to be something she MUST do, no questions asked, and it must be a dealbreaker.


----------



## naiveonedave

hurtingtechguy said:


> not that it makes it any better, but, the person doesn't work there, just does business with the company. i dont even know what to say after reading all these comment, i am truly an idiot......


don't be too hard on yourself. No one was taught what to do in this situation. AND IT SUCKS. Continue to post and read. Find a lawyer, the biggest D shark in your area and get a consultation. Find out what D would mean. Eat well and drink water, avoid booze and drugs. Find confidants (friends, parents, IC, pastor) to talk about this. Star working out to work out the stress.


----------



## GusPolinski

@hurtingtechguy, a couple more things...

All this "love" that you feel for your wayward wife?

That doesn't matter.

_It will NEVER matter_, and here's what I mean by that:

You will never be able to love your wayward wife so much that it will in any way bridge the gap between her vows of fidelity and her apparent inability -- or, to be honest, unwillingness -- to honor them.

Additionally, for as long as your wife is aware of this glaring disparity in your marriage, you'll never be able to reconcile your marriage in a meaningful way.

For as long as she knows that you won't divorce -- *NO MATTER WHAT* -- she has no real incentive to change.

Also, from your perspective, why was counseling a bust?

ETA: How did you discover the affair? Did you suspect an affair prior to finding it and, if so, what kind of gaslighting did she throw your way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lostinthought61

hurtingtechguy said:


> for what its worth, my kids are all well aware of the situation.



what about the other comments Hurt? are you absorbing her shame? did you expose the OM to his wife?


----------



## straightshooter

*


hurtingtechguy said:



not that it makes it any better, but, the person doesn't work there, just does business with the company. i dont even know what to say after reading all these comment, i am truly an idiot......

Click to expand...

*

YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!Get that out of your head. Your initial reaction is what many men do and not do. But what you do now will play a large role in the outcome and you are not helpless here if you do not want to be.

Her not working directly with him does not really change anything in that if he does regular business with a small office he will always have access to her. But you must get control of the narrative here and she MUST believe that she is at the end of the rope. Until she actually believes that, she is driving the bus. 

Now your first step is to STOP believing what she is telling you unless you can verify it and if this guy is married blow up his house like he did yours.

And get a VAR in her car since she does not work with him. if they are still in contact you can bet your 401K she is talking to him on her cell phone.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Since the OM is a player did you get tested for STDs if not that should be you and your WW first stop?


----------



## WasDecimated

Positive comments only...OK

You should positively file for divorce. This is the only chance you have to save your marriage, if that is what you want down the road.
She positively has no respect for you, your marriage, or the vows she took. Chances are a 100% positive that she will cheat again because she sees you as a door mat. I am positive that she has no remorse for what she has done based on her excuses and the fact that she's done this before. Cheating only get easier with practice. Her excuses are positively shallow and typical. 

Right now you need to put yourself in a positive light and show her the consequences for her choices. She needs to fix herself.


----------



## SunCMars

Symbolically, you are a very large and very tame Kodiak bear.

Unlike men you can be shot many times and keep on ticking..........licking your wounds...........EVEN LICKING the she-hunter........licking her feet.

Okay, that fact about you is clear. 

It is your life, not mine, or other TAM first-responders. I am the 16th responder, dag-nabbit! Number may be higher....typing too slow.

Here is the thing: She has no boundaries. She can run in any pasture and not just at work. 

She has a hot quiver that can/does house [lust after] many strange arrows. Long arrows, short arrows, curved arrows, french-tickle arrows. 

She is not being "seriously" restrained by you or [herself...yeah, right]. She is a grown women, she is not your legal property, therefore she has free will to do whatever she wants....... to allow her short-lived stay on our round earth to drum-up.....and ensure her man-hunting successes. 

She has to "WANT TO" be Mrs. Fidelis. So far, NOPE, does not WANT TO.

This is her pattern. She is not marriage material. If you can deal with a one-sided open-marriage, then have at-it, Mr. Bruin.

I can point to the door....or the horizon, but it is your mind, then feet that lead you....not my words.


----------



## hurtingtechguy

counseling was a bust, because one counselor wanted to tell me i had to simply lock it away and another wanted to get me on meds.

I suspected for awhile, but, caught her texting at her brothers wedding. didn't know exactly what was going on at the time, but, knew something. wasn't until i got home and was able to investigate that i knew for sure.


----------



## barbados

hurtingtechguy said:


> Backround:
> I am 44 my wife is 42, been *married for 16 years* and have 3 great kids, *17*, *14*, & 11.
> 
> 
> *She cheated with an exboyfriend very early in our marriage* (I was able to dismiss this fairly easily as our marriage did not start off as a typical marriage, it was rough going in the beginning and neither of us I think were ready for it).


OP

So you already had a child prior to marriage. 

Is it yours ?

You state WW was cheating early on in the marriage, and you had child number 2 early on the marriage as well. 

Is it yours ?

Given the fact that your WW is a confirmed serial cheater, I would say its time for DNA tests of all 3 of your kids.

Its also time to divorce, but you said you are not going to do that.


----------



## GusPolinski

hurtingtechguy said:


> counseling was a bust, because one counselor wanted to tell me i had to simply lock it away...


That's so stupid that it borders on being criminal.



hurtingtechguy said:


> ...and another wanted to get me on meds.


FWIW, meds wouldn't have been the worst thing, assuming, of course, that the rest of the advice being given didn't amount to you burying your head in the sand and your wife getting what basically amounts to yet ANOTHER free pass for cheating.



hurtingtechguy said:


> I suspected for awhile, but, caught her texting at her brothers wedding. didn't know exactly what was going on at the time, but, knew something. wasn't until i got home and was able to investigate that i knew for sure.


Actively carrying on her affair while at another wedding?

That's what you call ZERO respect for the institution of marriage.

Any soft confronts prior to getting proof? Any gaslighting from her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bojangles

here are some positives: 

you were smart enough to bust her. 

you were living in a false reality. you're no longer trapped in that. 

it's not your fault that your wife did this to you. 

you are going to be a stronger person if you choose to leave her. 

you are now free to sleep with other women whether or not you leave her.


----------



## TRy

hurtingtechguy said:


> in regards to the job, she has said she would leave (whether she would or not is a question), but, i have asked her not to due to financial reasons


 You cannot have it both ways. Cheating is either a big deal, or it is not. As it stands now, you asking her to stay at the job is viewed by her as you telling her that although cheating make you mad, at the end of the day it is not that big a deal. If she stays at the job, she will cheat again, and your marriage will eventually come to an end, with the financial cost of divorce being much higher than whatever "financial reasons" had you asking her to stay at the job. If you are seeking to divorce her, have her stay at the job for alimony reasons. If you are seeking to stay in the marriage, then she needs to change jobs and go 100% full no contact with her lover.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GuyInColorado

How good has this marriage been? Tell us how often you two have had sex in the last 5 years. Is it good sex? We need to know how intimate you two really are. What are her reasons for looking outside the marriage?

In other words, are you really in love with her or are you afraid of a new life with seeing your kids 50% of the time, paying her child support/alimony, doing your own cooking/laundry, and living in a craphole for the next 5 years?


----------



## MarriedDude

If you have no intention of leaving...there is only one way to save yourself, your sanity. 

Turn your heart to stone. Slowly, gradually, stop caring about your wife, who she is, what she does, where she is. Let your love for her die. She can become merely a bit of entertainment for you...watch her fail, see her dance, take some bit of pleasure from subtly manipulating her into more and more painful disasters....have zero shame in this...when she has sunk as low as she can and has come to the realization, finally, that you dont care about her at all, let alone love her....she will, or will not, understand exactly where you are right now. 

Give her the gift of your pain. Of course, this will change you, your children, really your entire life. But if you refuse to help yourself, and her....this is about the only positive thing you can do for you. 

Good Luck


----------



## CH

hurtingtechguy said:


> Back to the current situation.
> I love my wife with everything I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family, but, am struggling terribly.


This alone almost never works. Coming from a WS (the cheater) if I know that my spouse will never leave no matter what I do, I'll just throw on a fake smile and make you happy and keep the affair going or end it and wait it out until it happens again. To save a marriage you NEED to save yourself first. NEVER, EVER go down with someone who's sinking fast and isn't willing to put in the effort to save the marriage.

Sad to say this but most of the time when a WS knows the BS will NEVER leave, you're screwed, we'll never change. It took my wife to give me an ultimatum, choose or GTFO before I finally realized what I wanted. Kinda sick though, it took me sleeping with other women to show me that I love my wife......If I was the BS I think I would throw a fist through the computer monitor every time a WS says that they love their BS soooooo much now after having an affair.


----------



## SunCMars

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a moderator:
> 
> It is possible to issue a 2x4 without using derogatory terms such as cuckold.
> 
> Any further infractions of this nature will result in 2 day time out.


Good Point.

Some TAMMER's are too much in a hurry to say anything, get it out of the way, fire from the hip with a shotgun. You take the target OP down. He/she leaves in an ambulance, never to return.

Not helpful. I too have been guilty of this. 

We can easily drive these good folks away. The truth does hurt, for obvious reasons.
....................................................................................................................................................................................

On this subject of slicing to the bone......unfairly.......unnecessary.......and un-helpingly. Using words that *UNJUSTLY HURT.*

When I was in Elementary School, I wore a round butt-shaped curve in the seat in the corner. I was in-corrigible. 

As an adult...no, OLD MAN, I sometimes want to be punished and put in that same chair. Trying to keep quiet and fair-minded, my GD tongue has been bit and scarred over so many times I cannot sense anything but Classic Indian and Mexican food.

Luckily, maturity has blessed me with an abundance of empathy. OK, OK, my old teeth have age-rounded and cannot easily cut fresh bread.

Next year that kid my return.

....................................................................................................................................................................................................................

It is good to be fair, understanding, helpful. But sometimes knocking the elephant in the room "off center" is tough without using a 416 Rigby Mauser.

But, at least try! 

Anybody can throw rocks. try firing bullets of wisdom.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

She has no respect for you whatsoever. The one thing you can get out of this is to earn her respect back. That involves filing for divorce, having the legal papers served at work, and avoiding her requests to talk it over. Once she respects you again, she might remember that she loves you. But honestly, she is so broken that it would take years of therapy to fix her.


----------



## Satya

My positive feedback is... 

You will be fine after you divorce her. You can give yourself permission to divorce her. You may be even better than fine afterwards. And I mean, after you heal. It all depends on you. 

How do I know this? The hundreds, maybe thousands of posters here who have divorced a disloyal spouse and realized that life can and will move on. Moving on can be staying single, it can be remarrying after healing, it can be turning into a monk and living happily in an abandoned missile silo on the side of a mountain.

Or, you can choose to reconcile. There are many posters here who have reconciled. It is the much harder path for all involved and it comes with a list of requirements. 

The first of which I'll refer to based on your first post. You said you don't know how long her affair really lasted. *Why don't you know?* You should have a complete time-line of the affair, from her, that you can validate if necessary. I'm talking dates, times, places. If you don't have this, the most basic and first things a remorseful spouse NEEDS to produce to the betrayed spouse with full disclosure, then she doesn't have the makings of a remorseful spouse IMO.


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## Lostinthought61

Hurt, i would like you to consider one other thought, your a father first and foremost and you take that responsibility seriously, no question there, you noted to us that they children know, what lesson are you teaching them in keeping the family together, they know you love them, and they are old enough that they would probably request that they stay with you rather than her, but by staying you are demostrating as well that there are no consequences to her actions. she still comes home with you and with the children, you sleep in the same room, and the family unit is whole....its okay if your spouse cheats and disrespects you, its okay to kiss your husband goodbye in the morning and turn around and take off with a lover only to kiss your husband at the end of the day of being with your lover. its okay to destroy someone self-esteem if it means keeping the family together...is that legacy you want to leave your children. is that how your children will remember you?


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## rzmpf

Well to keep it positive, it seems your wife won't leave you. Except maybe when the kids are grown or she meets someone with a boatload of money who is stupid enough to marry her.

Another positive, you have a onesided open marriage and you gave it to her without her asking for it. How considerate of you, such conversations can easily go south and threaten the marriage.

And you are showing your kids that it's ok to stick around someone who is cheating and basically abusing them. Teaching them stamina and tenacity when they are young is positive.


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## GusPolinski

TRy said:


> You cannot have it both ways. Cheating is either a big deal, or it is not. As it stands now, you asking her to stay at the job is viewed by her as you telling her that although cheating make you mad, at the end of the day it is not that big a deal. If she stays at the job, she will cheat again, and your marriage will eventually come to an end, with the financial cost of divorce being much higher than whatever "financial reasons" had you asking her to stay at the job. If you are seeking to divorce her, have her stay at the job for alimony reasons. If you are seeking to stay in the marriage, then she needs to change jobs and go 100% full no contact with her lover.


^This^ is dead on, @hurtingtechguy.

She needs to leave the job.

Nothing else that either of you does in terms of working toward reconciliation will matter until NC has been firmly established between her and the POS.

Stop painting yourself into a corner and insist that she leave the job ASAP. Any short-term financial pain suffered as a result of her doing so will be well worth it.

It's also worth noting that her getting any similar job in which any contact between her and the POS may resume (because he does business there as well) is pretty much out of the question.

Is the POS married? If so, expose the affair to his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bankshot1993

HTG:
I know that I'm just going to repeat the same things that everybody else here is saying, but here's the thing, they are saying them for a reason. Experience, wisdom and an intimate knowledge of the subject matter have made a great many people that have responded here experts in the matter you are asking about.

You want positive comments, well there really isn't any. The reason you want positive comments is because you are afraid. You're afraid of what you know, you're afraid of what you don't know and you're afraid of where this all leads. That's understandable but rug sweeping this and pretending it didn't happen will only lead to far worse consequences down the road as well as a whole lot of wasted time.

The last time this happened it really hurt you. This time it has devastated you yet again. The next time it happens (and there will be a next time) it will crush you again, eventually it will happen so many times you will be dead inside and your life will be so diminished because of it. It will effect how you love yourself, your children, the rest of your family and you will flush any hope of a "positive "life down the toilet.

I won't say to divorce or to reconcile, now isn't the time to make that decision. You're head isn't in the right frame to make decisions that will effect the rest of your life. What I will say is that there does need to be consequences for your wife's actions and those need to start taking place right now. No matter what whether you R or D the consequences still need to happen. Honestly it is more important to a successful and long term R than anything. 

The lack of respect that has been shown on every level is absolutely amazing to me. I could never be with somebody had they showed me the lack of respect your wife has for you. To actually have you driving her to see her affair partner is a new level of disrespect to me. The emotional trauma she dumped on to you by something like that is beyond unfathomable. If I were to put the shoe on the other foot, I don't think I could ever love anybody that would be so obtuse and allow me to show such distain for them that I could actually ask them to drive me to see my affair partner, I would actually have to hate them and be actively trying to psychologically damage them for life.

If you want some positive in your life it has to start with you letting go of the marriage you thought you had and start making your decisions based on the marriage you really do have.


----------



## drifting on

Hurtingtechguy

You said in you only wanted positive comments. You said you want this marriage to work. You said she has cheated before in the marriage. 

Read these three sentences above for a second time. If you want help, if you want to reconcile, then you need to change, yes you need to change. First thing you need to do is be willing to lose the marriage. In actuality, only the state you live in considers you married. You see your marriage died the minute she began her affair. So you don't even have a marriage so to speak. What I'm trying to show you is that you have no control over those three sentences. You can't control the comments you will receive. You can't control whether your marriage will work or not because you can only control you. You can't control whether or not your wife cheats. Don't despair or quit reading now, you CAN control the outcome, you CAN control the process. 

If you choose to reconcile the requirements, boundaries, and consequences are your choice to make. Thing is they are not negotiable, she either meets them or she is out. Now if you want help you have found a great place to get help, but this will require that you change. 

First thing that needs to be done is blowing up the OM. This means you tell the two person office team your wife works within. Second you call OM's wife, give her dates and times that are provided by your wife. Third check to see if you are in a no fault state or an at fault state. If you are in a no fault state, call OM, warn OM that he would be in a healthier place if he didn't have contact with your wife. This is a vague statement, one that cannot be nailed down as a threat. I'm not suggesting physical harm, but bad press about OM's business surely would not be appreciated. If OM works for a company, notify the HR department, give them the same information as you have OM's wife again provided by your wife. OM's company may not be concerned with infidelity, but they will be very concerned at shat they are paying him to do. 

Tell your wife you will not make a decision regarding the marriage for six months. Tell your wife she has thirty days to find employment within walking distance of the home. If this isn't possible, she better see a therapist about her driving fear. Begin to fill out all necessary divorce papers, you can download them off your county courts website. List the reason for the divorce as multiple infidelity, have your wife fill out half of the forms. For child custody go for full custody, giving her the minimum for visitation. 

Start seeing a therapist of your own, it's way to early for marriage counseling at this point. Make therapy a requirement for your wife also. Now that this is done, sit your wife down to talk. Tell your wife she has six months to convince you to remain married. This can only be shown by actions, whatever comes from her mouth in the form of words will not be considered truth until verified by you. Tell her this starts now, and then ask her the best question you ever could ask. Ask her to describe to you what it felt like to sit next to you in a car after she just had sex with OM? She most likely will tell you how horrible it felt, but that's what you want. Why, because I believe this ramped up the remorse something fierce. See if she tells you she didn't like it, you ask her, why continue for six more months? Tell her you see a major flaw in her as a person who could sit next to their spouse after just having sex with someone else. Ask her who would even do that? This will most likely be met with silence, and that silence is deafening. She has no choice but to reflect on how shameful she has been. 

By being harsh on her you are actually loving her with all of your being. It's either a marriage we both want or it's not, but you love her enough to let her go to find her happiness in someone else. I will help you any way I can, contact me if you want more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## naiveonedave

bankshot1993 said:


> HTG:
> I know that I'm just going to repeat the same things that everybody else here is saying, but here's the thing, they are saying them for a reason. Experience, wisdom and an intimate knowledge of the subject matter have made a great many people that have responded here experts in the matter you are asking about.
> 
> You want positive comments, well there really isn't any. The reason you want positive comments is because you are afraid. You're afraid of what you know, you're afraid of what you don't know and you're afraid of where this all leads. That's understandable but rug sweeping this and pretending it didn't happen will only lead to far worse consequences down the road as well as a whole lot of wasted time.
> 
> The last time this happened it really hurt you. This time it has devastated you yet again. The next time it happens (and there will be a next time) it will crush you again, eventually it will happen so many times you will be dead inside and your life will be so diminished because of it. It will effect how you love yourself, your children, the rest of your family and you will flush any hope of a "positive "life down the toilet.
> 
> I won't say to divorce or to reconcile, now isn't the time to make that decision. You're head isn't in the right frame to make decisions that will effect the rest of your life. What I will say is that there does need to be consequences for your wife's actions and those need to start taking place right now. No matter what whether you R or D the consequences still need to happen. Honestly it is more important to a successful and long term R than anything.
> 
> The lack of respect that has been shown on every level is absolutely amazing to me. I could never be with somebody had they showed me the lack of respect your wife has for you. To actually have you driving her to see her affair partner is a new level of disrespect to me. The emotional trauma she dumped on to you by something like that is beyond unfathomable. If I were to put the shoe on the other foot, I don't think I could ever love anybody that would be so obtuse and allow me to show such distain for them that I could actually ask them to drive me to see my affair partner, I would actually have to hate them and be actively trying to psychologically damage them for life.
> 
> If you want some positive in your life it has to start with you letting go of the marriage you thought you had and start making your decisions based on the marriage you really do have.


reposted for the truth (and I can only like it once:grin2


----------



## TDSC60

I may be in the minority here but I don't think her quitting the job is a solution. Yes, quitting the job will help put an end to her current affair. Yes, it will make it harder for her to contact the current affair partner. Yes, it is conventional wisdom that she has to quit.

But - She is a serial cheater, no matter what job she has, contact with other males who feed her need for attention means she is likely to cheat again. If it was not this POS then it would have been, and will be, some other POS who shows interest in her. So the bottom line is that her quitting only hurts the family, will make it harder to divorce when HTG wakes up, and does nothing to guarantee her future fidelity. I am with the others who say there have been affairs that you do not know about. That is what serial cheaters do. They will never leave Plan B, the clueless husband who supports them financially, baby sits the kids, and in HTG's case acts as a taxi.

Serial cheaters never change. It is who they are. It is almost hard coded into their genetics. They can hide it. They can say the right things you want to hear. They can even fool themselves for long periods of time. But eventually the real self will appear again given the same set of circumstances.

This woman has zero respect and even less love for you. Don't let fear of the unknown govern your actions.


----------



## bandit.45

Once the men in an office environment learn that one of the female workers is having an affair or has had affairs, she becomes a target for every rutting buck in the place.


----------



## jsmart

hurtingtechguy said:


> Really looking for positive comments and encouragement, I already have plenty of negativity.
> 
> Backround:
> I am 44 my wife is 42, been married for 16 years and have 3 great kids, 17, 14, & 11. We both work full time and drive to work together everyday (my wife doesn't drive any more she developed some type of fear of driving about 5 years ago. This is what makes my situation a little different, I was driving her to have an affair....).
> 
> Situation: (apologize if I am all over the place)
> About 5 months ago I caught my wife having an affair with someone her office does business with. Before catching her the affair went on for at least 6 months, although, I believe it was much longer than that. As a side note, this is not the first time my wife has cheated on me. *She cheated with an exboyfriend very early in our marriage* (I was able to dismiss this fairly easily as our marriage did not start off as a typical marriage, it was rough going in the beginning and neither of us I think were ready for it).
> 
> Back to the current situation.
> I love my wife with everything I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family, but, am struggling terribly. I want my marriage to survive and thrive in a positive and happy direction, but, my fears of this happening again, not being able to forget things I learned that happened in this affair (I am an IT specialist and when I found out about this I was able to find and read her messages and internet search history, bothers me *she did things with another man that I wanted her to do with me.* Also bothers me that she *was in communication with him on days like Christmas* (now I hate Christmas) and while I spent some time in the hospital, *I was in the hospital and she was communicating with him!*). I am also scared it is still going on at some level, she still works at the same job (very small office, 2 people) and claims she has had no contact with him, I am having a very hard time believing this as I know her office does business with this person. All this said I want to believe my wife and have our marriage get through this. Problem is my own mind and thoughts are preventing any type of progress.
> 
> I could type for days on more details, but, don't know what else is relevant. Please feel free to ask anything, I am a 100% open book, just looking for help and encouragement.


Wow, this is tough. I feel the pain through your words. The thought of blowing up the family ways heavily on you but you must not take the blame. She destroyed the family when she started this 2nd affair.

Doing a successful R is very difficult. The mind movies don't go away. Now that you know she, like almost all WWs, performed acts with him that she turned you down on, it will eat at you. You would be amazed at how common it is for WW to get very wanton for the OM. Anal, BJTC, really submissive degrading acts are all enthusiastically on the menu. Not to mention pledges of undying love. How BH doesn't compare to their new soulmate.

From the info you provided, it is VERY likely that she's had other affairs over the years but you jut mistook the emotional distance as a low in the marriage.

I personally encourage men to divorce WWs that had sexual PAs. If she's truly remorseful, she can earn your love back. That's after you have at least one sexual relationship and she remain chaise to even the score. Then you can have a new untainted marriage.


----------



## Yeswecan

ButtPunch said:


> OP
> 
> Please see a therapist for your codependency.


^^^^^^ solid advise.


----------



## TDSC60

bandit.45 said:


> Once the men in an office environment learn that one of the female workers is having an affair or has had affairs, she becomes a target for every rutting buck in the place.


You are right bandit. But he said there is only one other person in her office. POS was/is a client or customer. I am sure POS has spread the word to other clients/customer. So even if she quits this job, any job she finds in a similar field will likely have a similar client base. 

But my point is that quitting helps stop the current affair and guard against it restarting with the current POS. It does nothing to guard against future affairs when any random male can bed her simply by stroking her ego and feeding her need for attention outside the marriage.


----------



## Yeswecan

hurtingtechguy said:


> not that it makes it any better, but, the person doesn't work there, just does business with the company. i dont even know what to say after reading all these comment, i am truly an idiot......


You are not an idiot sir. You are caught up in a second A conducted by your W. The question remains, do you want to live your life like this because your W is a serial cheater who appears to have no respect for you, the kids and marriage.


----------



## TRy

Yeswecan said:


> You are not an idiot sir. You are caught up in a second A conducted by your W.


 Actually it is not "a second A conducted by" his wife, it is a second A conducted by his wife that he has learned about. Since studies show that most affairs go undetected, odds are very high that there has been other cheating that he does not know about. Since studies also show that only 7% of cheaters ever admit to cheating even when confronted with evidence, the sad truth is that the OP will never know the full extent of her cheating. Accepting this fact is part the **** sandwich the OP needs to swallow if he decides to stay in this marriage.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Not sure what you are hoping for but here are some home truths:

The summary of your situation reads like this: 

*YOU: Oh no! You fvcked your ex! And we haven't been married that long! 

WIFE: Oh dang! Sorry, I was down/depressed/hit by lightning (take your pick) - I promise I won't do it again. Please keep supporting us. And by the way, I need you as a chauffeur - just can't get around as much without your ability to drive, sweetheart. You are wonderful! [Aside: Thank God I got away with that one He is dumber than he looks!]

YOU: (sheepishly) Aw shucks! Alright then. Just don't do it again.


Some time (and many other dalliances/affairs later): 

YOU: Oh no! Not again! And you do business with him too! How could you ? I even drove you to him! And you keep texting him too and seem to be in love with him! Is the fvcking not enough - now you got to be emotional too!

WIFE: Oh so sorry! I didn't mean to. I just had an itch in my pu$$y that he offered to scratch. I don't love him - honestly darling! I don't normally text people I love on Christmas you see. Or when you are in the hospital - so its not love, just plain fvcking! Please forgive me! [Aside: He is really dumb! Seems he doesn't know all about the other times! Does he not get the picture ? I want to fvck other guys! Not him! And I want him to continue being the dad/provider/driver etc. Lets hope he understands this this time and doesn't keep bugging me and checking up on me in future! Sheesh!]

YOU: Oh dear! Let me go on the internet to see what they advise. I am damn good at catching her because I am a tech expert you see, just don't know what to do about it. I don't want to get divorced because frankly, I am too scared of what that might mean. Anyway, she is going to continue fvcking other guys cause that is the way she is built. However, the real question is how to get her not to divorce me. Cause as long as the other guys are married or taken I am safe. But if one of them is single she might leave me for him! Wonder if I am focussing on the right thing here ?*


OK sorry for the harshness but thats what others are seeing here!

You know what to do with a lying, cheating, deceiving, entitled, amoral partner who doesn't love you at all! Still you ask us here. Now if you asked the right thing, we would have plenty of positive answers for you. The right thing is "what is the way to safely and quickly dump her sorry a$$ while protecting me and mine!" Let us know if you want a positive answer to that question.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

@hurtingtechguy the guys who post here with the attitude you started with - and there are MANY - tend to remain in a horrible state of pain for MONTHS and even YEARS. Their threads grow to hundreds of pages. TAM members start fighting because EVERYONE is frustrated.

You are standing on hot coals. The suggestions above provide several paths off the hot coals. You must choose to start to walk off the hot coals.

The D papers convey your resolve.

The NC letters and exposure provide a thin layer of protection for you as a couple. Very thin shoes. But the coals will burn through in short order if you don't move.

The timeline forces the WS to step through their path of destruction of your marriage. Mind you, she'll get that hot, wet feeling when she steps through the lust so it's not all roses. But the totality of it MIGHT give her pause. It also allows you to draw a firm line in the sand - your first REAL boundary. You MUST tell her after she gives it to you that ANY new information will destroy ALL hope for building trust and therefore the marriage will fail. Then give it back and let her review it one more time, telling her the marriage depends on it.

YOU should look in the mirror and say "Today I will change a little bit. I will not avoid doing something just because it's hard. I will not put my fear above my happiness and the health and welfare of my children." 

Then start to take little steps off the coals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit

Positive advice:

Hit the gym. Hard. Helps deal with all the bad chemical generated by pain, fear and anxiety. Helps you sleep. Helps you feel better about your self. Helps you be more attractive to the opposite sex. Whether your wife or someone else.

See a lawyer. Knowledge is power. Plus it gives you a more solid idea of what behavior on your part will help with custody should it come to that. Implementing behaviors that help with custody not only improves your relationship with your kids but also helps you feel that you are doing something to improve your situation. Less helpless.

Spend time with guys. Helps overcome depression. Helps distract you from WW.

Lots you can do short of divorce to make the intolerable more tolerable.


----------



## SunCMars

TheTruthHurts said:


> @hurtingtechguy
> You are standing on hot coals. The suggestions above provide several paths off the hot coals. You must choose to start to walk off the hot coals.
> 
> Then start to take little steps off the coals.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Walking on coals.

Great Analogy! 

Are you a follower of Yahweh?

A 32d Mason? Do they even do this anymore ? !

Little Steps....... Damp, fast....... fast moving feet...oh, yeah!

Being a light-weight Bantam Rooster and not a Brute of a Bear, helps.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................

H-Tech is traversing a mine field. He needs to look for depressions [not his own], disturbances in the soil ahead. Bring a back-pack loaded with mine finding bowling balls....roll them in straight lines...straight to Divorce Land.


----------



## Hope1964

TDSC60 said:


> You are right bandit. But he said there is only one other person in her office. POS was/is a client or customer. I am sure POS has spread the word to other clients/customer. So even if she quits this job, any job she finds in a similar field will likely have a similar client base.
> 
> But my point is that quitting helps stop the current affair and guard against it restarting with the current POS. It does nothing to guard against future affairs when any random male can bed her simply by stroking her ego and feeding her need for attention outside the marriage.


Telling her to quit her job isn't to keep her from cheating. It's to send her the message that HE MEANS BUSINESS. It is one of many many things she has GOT to do to prove she's worthy of R.

My husband got a blow job on his couch. He had to get RID of it immediately when I found out. Not because doing so would keep him from cheating again. But because by doing so without a peep he started on the road to proving to me that he was worthy of my time to spend on the marriage. He earned extra points because he didn't even hesitate when I told him. He went to work immediately and it was gone within a day. and *I* got the money he sold it for without even asking. THAT is the kind of thing a truly remorseful WS does.


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## TRy

Hope1964 said:


> THAT is the kind of thing a truly remorseful WS does.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:
I cannot like this post enough. The key point being that "a truly remorseful WS" takes action and does things that show that they are remorseful, and shows to their spouse that they get the horrible reality of what they have done. Cheaters always say that they are sorry, but that is very different from actually being sorry.


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## JohnA

To start contact MOM employer and expose the afultery. Why? Does his company really want to chance a profitable business relationship because one of their guys wanted to get lucky? 

I worked for a larg for overseas company. Adultety was not a big deal except within the company, suppliers, and customers. A senior person got caught in adultery with a customer. His boss got a call at 9 AM, and employee was on a plane to Japan by 7 that night. Nothing was said to the OW company, only he had to go back for personal reasons.


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## TDSC60

Hope1964 said:


> Telling her to quit her job isn't to keep her from cheating. It's to send her the message that HE MEANS BUSINESS. It is one of many many things she has GOT to do to prove she's worthy of R.
> 
> My husband got a blow job on his couch. He had to get RID of it immediately when I found out. Not because doing so would keep him from cheating again. But because by doing so without a peep he started on the road to proving to me that he was worthy of my time to spend on the marriage. He earned extra points because he didn't even hesitate when I told him. He went to work immediately and it was gone within a day. and *I* got the money he sold it for without even asking. THAT is the kind of thing a truly remorseful WS does.


Sex is the currency a woman will pay to get the attention she desires.

She has already cheated twice that he is aware of. There are most likely more. There definitely WILL be more in the future when she gets that high from the attention of some other POS. She will give the POS what he wants so the attention will continue.

My point is that it does not matter where she works. It will happen again. As for showing her that he means business, nothing says "I am done" like giving her divorce papers. I know he does not want that and has even said it is not going to happen. With that attitude, there is little he can do but wait for the next POS to show up. With the information we have, any R is going to be one-sided, false, and a waste of time. Like OP has said, he does not want her to quit because of the financial hardship it will cause.


----------



## EunuchMonk

OP, come over here and have a seat. Do you want a drink of water? No? Okay. Listen, OP, I am not pro-divorce. Terrible thing, this divorce. Believe me when I tell you I don’t want to say it to you but if you can’t, at least, get your WW to leave the job that places her in repeated contact with the AP you are facing more heartache. In understood about your financial straits. Is she even looking for something else in the mean time? If not, that shows a lot about her level of commitment to reconciliation.

I know you have your rose-colored glasses on right now and can only see the person you thought she was instead of the person she is. However, I have on darkers. Lemme tell you what I see. She is unloving, damaged. It has nothing to do with you. If she got together with the AP she would most likely cheat on him as well. Like an addict seeking a fix. People like that attract co-dependents like you. She needs to work on that, emphasis on SHE. Counselling.......or exorcism.

I know you want to be long suffering but how long are you willing to suffer? For the rest of your life? ‘Cause she ain’t gonna stop until there are REAL consequences, not just you weeping, showing her how heartbroken you are. Get on this stat, OP. I hope your lack of responses is because you are doing what is being posted.


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## Hope1964

TDSC60 said:


> Sex is the currency a woman will pay to get the attention she desires.
> 
> She has already cheated twice that he is aware of. There are most likely more. There definitely WILL be more in the future when she gets that high from the attention of some other POS. She will give the POS what he wants so the attention will continue.
> 
> My point is that it does not matter where she works. It will happen again. As for showing her that he means business, nothing says "I am done" like giving her divorce papers. I know he does not want that and has even said it is not going to happen. With that attitude, there is little he can do but wait for the next POS to show up. With the information we have, any R is going to be one-sided, false, and a waste of time. Like OP has said, he does not want her to quit because of the financial hardship it will cause.


Exactly my point. She IS NOT acting like a truly remorseful WS at all. He needs to tell her to quit her job, because when she refuses it will be more evidence of her insincerity.


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## ABHale

Out the POS OM with his company. They might not take it kindly that he is screw with a customer that might cause them to find another company. 

GET A GRIP. Pull yourself together. 
Read Danny4122 thread. This is what your should be doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jsmart said:


> Doing a successful R is very difficult. The mind movies don't go away. * Now that you know she, like almost all WWs, performed acts with him that she turned you down on, it will eat at you. You would be amazed at how common it is for WW to get very wanton for the OM. Anal, BJTC, really submissive degrading acts are all enthusiastically on the menu. * Not to mention pledges of undying love. How BH doesn't compare to their new soulmate.
> 
> .


You know...you just gave this poor guy twice the number of mind movies he would have otherwise had tonight.


----------



## ABHale

Didn't quote right.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

No matter what job she goes to, she will carry her problems with her. If he does not want a divorce, he is stuck in an open relationship at this point. My advice is to work on his own financial situation and keep detaching. Perhaps an in-house separation because she is likely to just get her validation met elsewhere if not with the OM. Under no circumstances should R be considered until she gets help. She will find users everywhere.

Depending on what OP holds value in, a separation where the two of them are free to date others while living under the same roof. Really, she is already seeing people outside the marriage. There are always unconventional methods to solve a situation, at least in the short term. Emotionally, OP should be separating for his own mental health.

If he accepts he cannot trust her and she will continue cheating, he can start the process to give himself space as to not hurt himself as much. He needs to gain some equilibrium where his emotions are not all over the place and that requires detachment.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

hurtingtechguy said:


> not that it makes it any better, but, the person doesn't work there, just does business with the company. i dont even know what to say after reading all these comment, i am truly an idiot......


You are by no means an idiot, but you are hurting and that is normal. However, you have to draw a line in the sand with this woman and let her know her behavior is unacceptable. She has apparently suffered no consequences. Work to gain confidence, hit the gym, read some self help books, and get yourself on an even keel. If you wish to save your marriage it is imperative that she be no longer employed where she has contact with POSOM. I would expose to your family, your parents, her parents, your siblings, but keep your children shielded from this. Focus on improving yourself.


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## sokillme

First the harsh comment. You read it over and over on here and other sites. Week men get bullied by their SO. It is a pattern. Woman who are cheaters pick men who they know will never divorce them because you provide a paycheck and stability to enable their cheating lifestyle. Also Woman by and large don't respect men who are pushovers. It is like how most men are not attracted to woman who are very overweight. It just is. This is a repeated pattern and you are the type of guy who gets trapped in it. 

Now another fact. A wife that is not faithful is like a race car without an engine. It may be nice to look at but what good is it to you in the long run. Wither you know it or not, unless you are a masochist eventually you are going to realize that the pain of staying with her is worse then the pain of moving on. Better to detach now and move on quickly then to hold onto something that is not real. The sooner you move on the sooner you can meet someone better. 

The positive is you don't need to be with your wife a woman who could do this to you to be happy. Many if not most people recover from being cheated on and go on to have a happy life. The positive is no matter what your wife does you have total control of your own life and destiny. You can change, you can learn to be strong, you can learn to be confident. You can learn to not allow anyone to abuse you ever again. You can learn to be happy without anyone in your life. You have kids that love you, you will always have them even without your wife.


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## phillybeffandswiss

An idiot? No. It's called love and trust. When you love someone, you trust them to make the best decisions. I won't say right because sometimes the best decisions feel or can be bad. Most of us here didn't want to see or hear the truth. Many ignored, pleaded, begged and did things which seem idiotic. It is even worse when the person has NEVER done anything to make you doubt them. It is not idiotic to want normalcy in your life.


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## Mr.Fisty

sokillme said:


> First the harsh comment. You read it over and over on here and other sites. Week men get bullied by their SO. It is a pattern. Woman who are cheaters pick men who they know will never divorce them because you provide a paycheck and stability to enable their cheating lifestyle. Also Woman by and large don't respect men are pushovers. It is like how most men are not attracted to woman who are very overweight. It just is. This is a repeated pattern and you are the type of guy who gets trapped in it.
> 
> Now another fact. A wife that is not faithful is like a race car without an engine. It may be nice to look at but what good is it to you in the long run. Wither you know it or not, unless you are a masochist eventually you are going to realize that the pain of staying with her is worse then the pain of moving on. Better to detach now and move on quickly then to hold onto something that is not real. The sooner you move on the sooner you can meet someone better.
> 
> The positive is you don't need to be with your wife a woman who could do this to you to be happy. Many if not most people recover from being cheated on and go on to have a happy life. The positive is no matter what your wife does you have total control of your own life and destiny. You can change, you can learn to be strong, you can learn to be confident. You can learn to not allow anyone to abuse you ever again. You can learn to be happy without anyone in your life. You have kids that love you, you will always have them even without your wife.



Is that not the same for anyone, males also pick push over females to control them. just saying, everyone should have boundaries, whether male or female. I can pick up females that are in the same situation as the OP as well.


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## sokillme

Mr.Fisty said:


> Is that not the same for anyone, males also pick push over females to control them. just saying, everyone should have boundaries, whether male or female. I can pick up females that are in the same situation as the OP as well.


This is a common dynamic when it comes to men like OP, this kind of post is made about once a day on this and other sites. Anyway why would I mention the dynamic of a man cheating on a woman when I am talking to a man whose woman cheated on him? That has nothing to do with OP's situation. Now is not for you to white knight, lets stick to the situation at hand. 

I get it your very good progressive and you must always point out the men have faults too when some woman's transgressions are pointed out though, congratulations you have provided equal time. I am sure all the woman here feel much more reassured now that you pointed that out for them.


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## hurtingtechguy

Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....

Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


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## Herschel

Could it only be twice? Yes. Does anyone here believe that? Oh hell no.

Do you want to live your life hoping she isn't? Doesn't sound like a good life to me.


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## GusPolinski

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Twice is enough to make her a serial.

That said, it's probably pretty unlikely that she's not cheated more than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tropicalbeachiwish

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


I think the chances of it only being twice are pretty darn slim.


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## TX-SC

Honestly, I believe there are likely more that you don't know about.


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## Lostinthought61

there is a way to find out hurt...have her take a polygraph, telling her that you want to know it was only these two, if she says no then you might have your answer.


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## Evinrude58

The point is, that OP wants to get out of all this with no pain (hence the request for positive comments about the marriage).

I CLEARLY remember coming here and thinking the same thing--- "Geez, they never have anything to say positive, is there no freaking way to fix this? Nothing I can do?"

The sad fact is that in the vast majority of cases where the wife has long since checked out of the marriage mentally, and the husband learns of it suddenly----- there's not much that can be done. And in the case of a wife that has cheated MORE THAN ONCE, the only thing one can really do is divorce them. At the very least, start the process. OP, you don't want to drag your feet on this and give your wife the opportunity to figure out the best possible way to screw you. She has already shown that she places no value on you. She will show you far worse in the divorce if you don't get your stuff together.

There really is no way to bring you relief from this. No matter what you do, though, you have to do SOMETHING. If you try to nice her back, that crap I can vouch for NOT WORKING. We've all seen case after case on here where it doesn't work. ANd I personally have felt the helplessness, the weakness, the shame, and the relentless pain of trying to nice your wife back and knowing the whole time that it wasn't just not working, it was ACTIVELY REPULSING HER and pushing her away. 

OP, you are eventually going to have to ACCEPT that your marriage is over, or ACCEPT that your wife is going to have sex with other men. Most likely if you accept the latter, she will still eventually divorce you. The only way to get out of the pain is to get out of this marriage. The pain will take a long time to go away, but it will get better if you accept that it's over and move on with your life. The longer you allow yourself to sit in limbo, the worse your life will be.

One thing I've found that I am trying to go by. If a woman starts treating you in ways that you wouldn't accept at the beginning of the relationship, after you're in love with them--- you really shouldn't accept it at present, either. Treat them as you would if you weren't emotionally invested, and release them. It's really your only choice if you want to be happy.

There are some women that will hang around because THEY are scared to move on, and will literally torture you out of anger that should be directed at themselves. And that is true torture, buddy.

I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but you have to file for divorce, and if she isn't 100 % remorseful, you should force yourself to end the marriage. IT was the hardest thing I ever did, but I am very happy that I told my wayward wife to leave and divorced her. There was nothing else I could do.
You can do this. Steel yourself and do what you know you should do. Don't let your emotions keep you from doing what you know is the right thing to do.


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## Rubix Cubed

@hurtingtechguy ,
What is your interpretation of "positive comments only"? if you were looking for validation in playing the "pick me" game, you likely came to the wrong place for hollow validation support. 
In my opinion the most positive thing for you to do for yourself would be to file for divorce.


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## sokillme

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Think about what you are asking. Is your point that twice is a good thing? I know you are afraid and don't want to go through the pain, but either way you are going to have to go through it. You have cancer, to heal you have to go through chemo (pain). Cancer needs to be cut out. This is what you don't realize mostly because you love your wife and are still bonded to her (because you are a good husband), even if you were sure that she was honest now and you guys were to stay together, which is your best case scenario in this situation, THE BEST CASE SCENARIO DOESN'T FIX THIS. You can't go back to what you thought you had, because you never had it.

You bought a lemon, your wife is not the woman she presented herself to be. She has very serious emotional problems and probably shouldn't be married to anyone. After the intensity of the pain and hurt die down this will become more and more obvious to you. Like the kid desperate for the shooting gallery stuffed toy, once he gets it he finds out that it's just junk and is already falling apart. You desperately trying to save a terrible situation that in the end won't make you happy. You need to hear us, the dream of having a faithful spouse who is going to be a soulmate to you is NOT dead, but the dream of this woman being that faithful spouse IS. Look up "sunk cost fallacy".

Dude you can do better, you need to do better, for yourself but mostly for your kids. This is why it is not OK to stay with a your wife. You need to be an example to them that allowing someone to abuse you is never right. Right now you are showing them the opposite. Would you want your kid to stay? Imagine your oldest right now in a relationship with someone who constantly cheats on them. Imagine they stay and get an STD, or marry the person. Imagine grand kids in the same position as your kids now and the cycle continuing. Imagine THEM constantly cheating on someone and following your wife's example. Right now you are showing them that that kind of relationship is normal, that there are no real consequences. You have to do better man. You are their father you need to protect them. 

Detach from your wife and once you are strong enough move on. Have hope, you didn't fail you were a faithful spouse, that is an asset that is very valuable, you just need to find the right woman.


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## TAMAT

HurtingTechGuy,

Get a polygraph for your WW, you need to know that you have the full story so that you can decide.

What you do not want to do is move on and "recover" and then discover there is more. You do not want to uncover affair 3 or 4 five years from now, also you do not want your WW carrying around the fear of her lies being discovered.

There also has to be a cost for your WW and the OM for this affair, the OM needs to be fired and divorced apply pressure.

Whatever pain you inflict on the OM your WW will feel and that is a good thing.

Tamat


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Once, twice or a hundred times doesn't matter, she broke the marriage even if you weren't perfect. There are thousands, if not millions, of ways to show displeasure without breaking your marriage. Cheating is just behind abuse for me and they are both marriage breaking acts..


----------



## just got it 55

"Regret and remorse are very similar -- but also quite distinct. Look to their roots for the nuances that underpin the distinctions. The root of remorse comes from a word in Anglo-French referring to "bite" ("mordant"). Remorse means that something comes back to bite you -- a very modern expression! The root of regret is of Germanic origin, rooted in word that refers to "greet" (so, "re-greet").

In modern American usage, I think it's safe to say that "remorse" coveys a deeper, more profound feeling than "regret." For example, when we decline an invitation to dinner or a party, we "send regrets." We'd never say "send remorse." On the other hand, in courtrooms, when guilty persons are scrutinized for evidence of their self-awareness, we look for "signs of remorse," not "signs of regret." (A criminal may regret being caught! But we look for her remorse for killing her husband.)

An additional difference is that regret is a verb (I regret, you regret, he/she/it regrets, etc.), while remorse is a noun. Regret has noun forms (regretful, to have regret); but remorse lacks a verb form (there's no "I remorse," etc. in English."

55


----------



## EleGirl

hurtingtechguy,

You are getting a lot of negativity, exactly what you did not want.

It's completely possible to recover your marriage and go to have a very good life together. The way to do this is far to involved to type out to you here in the forum. So I'm going to suggest some books that have the info you need. You can still post here for support if you want, but the books have the details that go beyond "dump her" to a solution of fixing your marriage and making it as affair proof as possible in the future.

Here are the books. Read them in this order. Do the work that they suggest.

*"Surviving an Affair"* by Dr. Harley {This book is for you to read.}

*How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful* {This book is for your wife. You can read it too so that you know what she needs to do.}

*"Love Busters"* by Dr. Harley

*"His Needs, Her Needs"* by Dr. Harley

Most marriages survive an affair. A large part of how to do that is to learn the vulnerabilities and fix them. For example your wife has low self esteem. She needs to get into counseling to repair her self esteem and to learn how to deal with the low self esteem in a way that protects your marriage from her cheating. For example she cannot ever spend time with another man and cannot talk about anything personal with any man other than you and maybe her brother and father.


----------



## OnTheRocks

evinrude58 said:


> one thing i've found that i am trying to go by. If a woman starts treating you in ways that you wouldn't accept at the beginning of the relationship, after you're in love with them--- you really shouldn't accept it at present, either. Treat them as you would if you weren't emotionally invested, and release them. It's really your only choice if you want to be happy.


truth


----------



## TDSC60

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Could it only be twice? Sure it could. Is it likely it could only be twice? No - it is likely there are more affairs you do not no about. There was a study done a few years ago among married women who admitted to having sex outside the marriage. 75% said their husbands did not know about the affairs. The odds are high that it was more than the two times you caught her,

If she is not a serial cheater, she is most certainly a repeat offender.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> hurtingtechguy,
> 
> You are getting a lot of negativity, exactly what you did not want.


Sorry Ele but I disagree, removing ones self from an abusive situation is the most positive advice anyone can offer.

Where are you getting that "most marriages survive affairs"? Is there actual numbers on that? How are those numbers when it is 2 affairs?


----------



## SunCMars

hurtingtechguy said:


> We have been to counselling and it hasn't really helped.
> 
> She seems to be very remorseful.
> 
> Her excuses were the typical bull****. In reality it was due to her lack of self confidence and when someone showed interest it made her feel good and *selfishness took over*.
> 
> A ton of comments so far, still trying to digest some of them and am praying that some of the comments are wrong and not reality.


That selfishness will never go away. We are all selfish, some more, some less. 

Most spouses do not allow their selfishness to allow them to betray....every valuable thing that is THEIRS.

Hers is not a small flaw....it is a gaping wound. 

You will never be able to look at her again, without seeing that "Chasm of Shame".

Don't hate her. Just let her go. Then she can again hold her head up, with a new man, and you can sleep peacefully with a new women.

Living with this "hyena" in the corner of your vision [for the rest of {both} of your lives] is too painful, and frankly, not necessary.

Her doing, is the Bridge too Far that we often hear about.

.....................................................................................................................................

Green eye-shade analysis:

The Logistics to reclaim the damage done, is what? Beyond any ROI ? Yes. 

As I see it, the Sunk Costs have lost too much Intrinsic Value, she Depreciated herself to Negative.

Even taking into account her Sentimental Value or her Collector Value she comes up in the Red.

......................................................................................................................................

All this due to her Education level and her age at the commission of infidelity.

Divorce......let her win you back if that is what you "ultimately" desire. She owes you more than you can imagine... 

The banishment of her to Elba is necessary. She must feel consequences and Atone for her carnal errors.

A-Tone to be: A͵͵ sub-contra-octave. The lowest key on a 88 key piano, double pedal. This key courses through ones soul when struck. It signals doom and fear. 

Hopefully, hearing this, she can re-deem herself.


----------



## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> Sorry Ele but I disagree, removing ones self from an abusive situation is the most positive advice anyone can offer.
> 
> Where are you getting that "most marriages survive affairs"? Is there actual numbers on that? How are those numbers when it is 2 affairs?


Marriage builders (Dr. Harley) says that some 70-80% of his clients recover their marriages after infidelity. I've see similar statistics other places.

Here is another source....

"A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away. 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal.
That also means that a whopping 78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair!"

Statistics on Cheating ? How Many Relationships Survive an Affair?


There seems to be a group-think belief on TAM that a betrayed spouse MUST get a divorce; that all marriages fail after infidelity; etc etc. Due to this, most male BS's who come here are pushed to end their marriage. How many people on this thread are trying to help the OP recover his marriage?


----------



## BetrayedDad

@hurtingtechguy 

Two days of almost universal agreement on advice here.

So what's the deal OP? Did you tell her to quit the job yet?

NO CONTACT is not negotiable, she needs to never see OM again.

The journey of a 1,000 miles begins with a single step bud.

This is step 1. If she can't even do this then it's time to see a lawyer.


----------



## JohnA

I think many posters missed the fact that his children know what is going on. I assume that means they know about MOM. Many posters here cite good reasons, that unless fixed, will result in divorce. Re-read @drifting on post on your thread. Then read his personal threads on TAM. His wife gaslighted him for two and half years and letting him believe HIS twins son where not his biology. At one point he had a gun to his head, pulled the trigger, and cursed himself when the tigger just clicked for not even being good enough to pull kill himself. Yet his marriage endures and grows. 

He and his wife faced many if not all the same comments you have read here. They are together because they faced them down and continue to do so together every day. 

Be well, don't forget to blow up OM at his work place. Don't hesitate. Exposure is often needed to kill adultery. @EleGirl mentioned MB here is his thoughts on exposure: Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> "A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away. 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal.
> That also means that a whopping 78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair!"


Poor suckers. >


----------



## Holdingontoit

He does not have to file for divorce to prove to her he is serious about her behavior not being acceptable.

He does have to do things she will not enjoy. He does have to do things she would prefer he not do. He has to be willing to endure her anger and displeasure to get her to respect him. Women do not love or have sex with men they do not respect.

She may eventually thank him for doing things she did not, at the time, enjoy. She may not. Their marriage can survive her displeasure. It cannot survive her disrespect.


----------



## sokillme

JohnA said:


> I think many posters missed the fact that his children know what is going on. I assume that means they know about MOM. Many posters here cite good reasons, that unless fixed, will result in divorce. Re-read @drifting on post on your thread. Then read his personal threads on TAM. His wife gaslighted him for two and half years and letting him believe HIS twins son where not his biology. At one point he had a gun to his head, pulled the trigger, and cursed himself when the tigger just clicked for not even being good enough to pull kill himself. Yet his marriage endures and grows.
> 
> He and his wife faced many if not all the same comments you have read here. They are together because they faced them down and continue to do so together every day.
> 
> Be well, don't forget to blow up OM at his work place. Don't hesitate. Exposure is often needed to kill adultery. @EleGirl mentioned MB here is his thoughts on exposure: Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums.



That doesn't sound like a happy ending to me, it sounds offensive, sounds like an abomination of what a marriage should be. Would you advice a woman who had a gun put to her head to stay with that man. Gross.


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## Hopeful Cynic

To have the SAME marriage be successful after infidelity, the WS must put a LOT of effort into becoming a better person, understanding why they felt cheating was a solution to their problems, and doing whatever it takes to evolve beyond that thinking and into being a better person. This pretty much must involve counseling, ending the affair irrevocably (no contact, exposure), and being remorseful. Not just regret that they got caught, but complete understanding of how bad their actions were and how much the BS was hurt. This hard work is completely on the WS, and most are simply incapable of doing it. They might fake it well for a while, fooling the BS, which just causes more pain.

The BS must also do some work, work on understanding the person their WS really is, not the illusion they'd been fooled by and want back. They must also understand how their behaviour during the marriage may have had an effect. I'm not blaming the BS for the WS cheating, because that choice of how to react is entirely on the WS, but there were very likely incompatibilities the WS was reacting to that the BS ignored or underestimated and needs to identify and understand. HOW the WS reacted is horrible, but WHAT they were reacting to needs to be addressed. Both BS and WS need to understand why the WS reacts this way and the WS needs to change it. Again, HARD to do and something the BS can't help with.

For the BS to have a NEW marriage be successful after infidelity, they must must put some work into becoming a new person, rising beyond the blow to their self-esteem, finding their identity as a self-sufficient single person, and becoming receptive to a new relationship (key elements of the 180). They must understand what they are incompatible with in a new relationship, and become able to recognize it before commitment. Very similar to what they need to do above if they are staying in the old relationship.

For the WS to have a NEW marriage be successful after their infidelity, they still need to do the same work they would have had to do in the same marriage: figure out why they react to problems with cheating, and learn new ways to deal with them instead.

So, really, both WS and BS need to do the same things whether the marriage continues or fails, but the hardest job falls to the WS and the BS cannot help with it. The BS's job is evaluate if the WS is doing any of it, and telling the faking from the genuine. If the WS isn't seeking counselling, initiating no contact themselves, etc, then the BS knows the old marriage isn't going to make it.

I don't know it this was positive or not. These were hard lessons for me to learn. I, the BS, naively and loyally believed that my ex, the WS, would do this hard work, because of course I, and our marriage, and our children, and our family business, and our lifestyle, and our extended families, were all worth it. But my ex rejected the counselling, took the affair underground, ignored my pain, and I just waited around stupidly extending the pain for months longer than necessary. Looking back, I did know that my ex was incapable of this sort of hard work, but I just clung to hope because I knew these things were worth my hard work. And now, with the hindsight of years, I can see the signs all throughout our marriage of incompatibilities that I minimized because my ex didn't communicate about them or ignored because I didn't understand them.

Only you can know if you have a WS capable of change. If not, you have to be the one to initiate change (ie, separation and divorce). But it's a rare WS whose main plan for dealing with your discovery of their adultery doesn't involve a whole lot of apparent indecision while they try to placate you or rewind time to before you figured things out. The type of person who cheats is the same type of person who runs away from problems instead of tackling them. Now that you know they are a cheater, why would you expect them to stop being that type of person and tackle this problem?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

EleGirl said:


> "A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away. 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal.
> That also means that a whopping 78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair!"
> 
> Statistics on Cheating ? How Many Relationships Survive an Affair?[/url




Who did this math??

19% end right away after cheating
22% break up eventually
that leaves 59% not 78%

And you just know that a good portion of those 59% are unhappy but don't break up due to other pressures, financial, cultural, religious, etc.


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## EleGirl

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Who did this math??
> 
> 19% end right away after cheating
> 22% break up eventually
> that leaves 59% not 78%
> 
> And you just know that a good portion of those 59% are unhappy but don't break up due to other pressures, financial, cultural, religious, etc.


I believe that the 22% includes the 19% who originally ended their marriage.


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## JohnA

@sokillme please clarify, did you read what I posted? He put a gun to his head, not his wife. As to would I advise him to stay with her if he ever thought of doing so - NO. 

I strongly doubt the statistics Elegirl cites. If true I believe the majority of these marriages are due to the BS settling fir a life of quiet despair. A horror. 

OP is seeking a way to be brave and not a fool so I will help him. UNDERSTAND THIS ABOUT ME: before revealing and confronted the BS must see an attorney, must have drawn up a divorce settlement which includes maximizing the quality of their post marriage life including custody issues. Then confront from strength. 

The pick me dance is a form of suicide by a thousand despairs. Instead I urge the BS to look at themselves and become a better person so in the event of re-marriage their new spouse will say (pay attention to the last sentence) 
Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS*

As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.

My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*

He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *

___________________________________________________________

BS be this person. * Now as to how to:


----------



## drifter777

EleGirl said:


> Marriage builders (Dr. Harley) says that some 70-80% of his clients recover their marriages after infidelity. I've see similar statistics other places.


I wouldn't believe that charlatan if he told me the sun rises in the east. His for-profit business relys on selling hope to people feeling hopeless at one of the most emotionally vulnerable times in their lives. He is a despicable human being profiting from the suffering of others. Do some research before referencing this person.



EleGirl said:


> Here is another source....
> 
> "A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only *19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away*. _*22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal*_.
> That also means that a whopping *78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair*!"
> 
> Statistics on Cheating ? How Many Relationships Survive an Affair?


Not sure how 19% ending relationship immediately and another 22% breaking up later adds up to a 78% survival rate. These number alone say 41% of these marriages do not survive infidelity. 

Why didn't you quote the very next sentences? They read:

"The numbers are a little different if you look at _*Sexual Infidelity specifically*_. The survey found that *just over half of the divorces were initiated because of sexual infidelity*."

The "just over half" is an average of all cases of infidelity. I'd hazard an educated guess that when it's the wife who cheats the divorce rate is *much *higher. Most men never get over it and either divorce shortly after d-day or within the first year or so after failing to reconcile. Many of the rest choose to live unhappily ever after for a host of reasons. 

The bottom line is that all of the Infidelity studies come up with different percentages based on the methodology they use to get their data. All of them agree that the data is flawed because the emotional damage done by infidelity often renders both partners - especially the BS - incapable of providing truthful information. They choose a version of the truth that they can live with, whether it's true or not, and do the old "that's my story and I'm sticking to it". 



EleGirl said:


> There seems to be a group-think belief on TAM that a betrayed spouse MUST get a divorce; that all marriages fail after infidelity; etc etc. Due to this, most male BS's who come here are pushed to end their marriage. How many people on this thread are trying to help the OP recover his marriage?


Very few BH's here on TAM will advocate that a man reconcile after she's been in a PA because our experience tells us it will not end well for either of them. Men will ruminate over the sexual aspect and never look at their wife the same again. They will never truly trust her. They will never believe that she didn't have other affairs that she will never reveal. The mind-movies and intrusive thoughts will destroy most men so we try to give them the benefit or our experiences and help them look beyond the immediate fear of losing the life they thought they had. 

Many woman on infidelity forums deny the significant difference in the reaction and prognosis for healing based on BW vs. BH. I don't know why anyone wouldn't accept that there are radical differences the the psyche's of men and woman and so there are real differences in their responses. 

Infidelity counselor Phillip Hodson put it this way and I think this says it all:

"For a betrayed woman, an affair is an offense against her dignity. For a betrayed man, it's an offense against his manhood. It goes right to the core of his identity."

OP should divorce his serial cheating wife and start a new life. Serial cheaters never change - they just get better at hiding their affairs. He will suffer mercilessly if he stays with her.


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## JohnA

Should have said some huddles: @Marc878 shared this with me . Really helpful so I thought I would share.

12 Things I Learned in the First 12 Weeks of the Affair

Wayfarer 6 February, 2014
1. Tears Don’t Move Active Cheaters
Tears Don't Move Active CheatersWe can’t understand how our upset and devastation can be so cruelly and cavalierly dismissed or ignored, and yet it happens time and time again. We sob and wail and gnash teeth. We guilt and accuse and reproach. And yet, it’s as if they’ve been coated with some sort of emotional Teflon! All our grief and distress slides off them like a fried egg in a non-stick pan. It doesn’t even stick if we break apart.

An active cheater will do anything they can to separate themselves from any form of histrionics. They might tell themselves that it’s just manipulative melodrama, designed to make them feel badly about what they’re doing. They might even enjoy warm and fuzzy feelings that they’re so desirable that they have you swooning and fighting over them. They are most probably sharing your anguish as a source of great amusement and delighted ridicule between them and their affair partner.

If you don’t find yourself crying through this at some point, something’s wrong. Tears are your physical expression of your emotional state, and even if they don’t make you feel better, there is some relief to releasing the emotional floodgates.

“It is some relief to weep; grief is satisfied and carried off by tears.”
~ Ovid
If you do cry, don’t make a performance out of it for your cheater. Take yourself somewhere quiet and cry, scream, and vent it out, just for yourself.

2. Your Commitment Doesn’t Trump Their Entitlement
Part of remaining stuck in the worst of it is your refusal to accept your new reality. It’s incredibly difficult to understand why they don’t reciprocate when you’re committed and faithful. The Why? question becomes such a huge obstacle that you just can’t see beyond.

“Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it’s less good than the one you had before. You can fight it, you can do nothing but scream about what you’ve lost, or you can accept that and try to put together something that’s good.”
~ Elizabeth Edwards
A cheater who continues an affair after it has been exposed or discovered, feels entitled to do so. They might believe that they are in love with their affair partner, or they might believe that you would never leave them. They could also feel that they deserve their affair as some karmic balance for some hurt or misfortune in their life.

No matter their reason, your continued investment and love won’t effect change in them. They have committed to a course of action, they’ve already decided that their affair is more important to them than the loss of you and their marriage. They may even enjoy having you at home, cooking, cleaning, washing their socks, and looking after the bills and the kids – in fact, you might be giving them all the at-home support that they need to be able to continue their affair.

3. There Can be Real Kindness in Strangers
Don’t underestimate the depth of compassion and support you find in infidelity support forums, and other support groups. Don’t underestimate how willing perfect strangers can be to offer you real and practical support and assistance.

The Kindness of Strangers

I tend not to personalize the posts to this site, but I am going to take this opportunity to thank the strangers who reached out to me with offers of financial help, care packages, and going out of their way to whisk me away from the madness for a few hours, and even buy me dinner. My gratitude to these people is immense – their kindness and support humbles me to this day. Not all the people who did let me lean on them will ever read this post, but the sentiment is out there in the cosmos, and this site exists partly in their honor.

4. Compassion Comes in Many Forms, and it Doesn’t Always Agree With You
Have you found yourself being irritated, angry, or upset with someone in an infidelity support forum, who has posted something that made you uncomfortable or annoyed you? There are a lot of good people on forums like these, whose perspective and experience gives them a different insight into your situation. Many people can see an alternative reality to the one that you see. Other people can view holes in your rationale, inconsistencies with your thinking, and when your choices seem unhealthy. That someone cares enough to take the time and make the effort to respond to you is their gift to you.

It’s easy to only see compassion in those whose views, beliefs, and style mirror your own, but people in support forums are there because they want to help others through a difficult situation. In my first 12 weeks, I found that no matter how different the views were to mine, people were there to listen, respond, and listen some more. People give up their free time in support forums willingly, and without an expectation of any reciprocation or compensation. Those people were a lifeline for me then – our differences did not lessen their concern and compassion, nor my gratitude for it.

6. Looking Through Your Wedding Photographs as a Terrible Idea
Enough said really. It’s easy to make the mistake of thinking that you know better, that it won’t affect you negatively. It will – there may not be an immediate fallout, but the tears and the upset will come. Yes, I speak from specific experience!

Try to put these types of photographs and memorabilia out of the way while your cheater is still in their affair. Keep them safely (don’t burn them in a fit of pique) until you’re emotionally ready to make a decision about keeping them or otherwise.

7. Laugh Often and Loudly
Chat IconsmallTransI know, it can feel like you will never laugh again, but you will, I promise you. Try to have some fun away from the affair drama – if you want someone to lift your spirits who understands what you’re going through, you are always welcome in the IHG Chat Room. Just pop in and say that you need some distraction from the gravity and angst of it all. Call a friend, go out for coffee, go to a movie … anything that will redirect you and let you laugh a little. It’s worth it.

8. There’s Always Someone Trying to Impose Their Agenda on You
Society, religious counselors, marriage counselors, pro-marriage forums, pro-divorce forums, sex addiction proponents, family, friends … Everyone has an agenda.

Some view your marriage remaining intact as the primary goal post-infidelity. Others may have a personal stake in your relationship and perhaps a personal axe to grind with your cheater. People give advice based in their own version of an ideal outcome for you – and that outcome might not be in your sole or best interests.

This site is no different. We do have an agenda, and it’s scrawled in bold type on nearly every page of the website. Our agenda is that you emerge from the affair with clear thinking, empowered to move forward in your life towards your own goals, your self-esteem intact, your own welfare secured, and you fully aware of the implications and authentic reasons behind your own decisions.

We won’t judge you negatively for deciding to stay for financial reasons, or leaving because you can get a really fantastic divorce settlement – in fact, we give you props for not shrouding it in inauthentic – though perhaps more ‘socially acceptable’ – excuses.

9. Affairs Highlight Patterns
Once you’ve had a few months of standing back and observing and questioning your active cheater’s behaviors, you will start to see patterns emerge.

The faithful spouse generally will claim that their cheater’s affair is completely out of character, and it can certainly feel that way. But if you start to peel back the layers, you can start to identify patterns in their behavior that are echoed in their affair mind-set. After a while it becomes obvious that the affair is just an extension of already-present attitudes and world view, it’s just that you had no cause to really examine it before. Maybe you can identify your cheater’s traits in these?:

I am always hard done by and downtrodden, treated badly by everyone, even though I’ve done nothing to deserve it.
I want the kind of good life I see in others and in the media so will take it where I can in that new TV, or designer suit, or big house. I deserve/am owed this minimum happiness.
My dysfunctional childhood has affected me and that’s why I can behave badly, but if you love me, you’ll understand me and make allowances.
I have an issue with impulse control and that’s why we’re deeply in debt.
I’ve always flirted and like to be the center of attention – it’s harmless.
I am edgy and deep and have a greater understanding of the meaning of life than others.
I am not constrained by conventional societal rules and structures, and I am amused and superior to those who buy into such artificial constructs.
My world view is one that I shall never change, and I will not be swayed into changing my attitudes, approach, views, or opinions.
10. You are Not the Person They Married
We all change over time, and we often change as a result of our changing circumstances. Being single, living by your own say so, under your own financial steam, and loving your independence while having fun in your relationship might be where you started.

2.4 kids, a dog, and a mortgage later, laundry bins overflowing, bills piling up on your desk, the car dying, a job you hate but pays well enough to support the family … life has taken its toll. You probably stopped hobbies you loved, lost touch with people you loved and had fun with, you might not be able to afford to keep going to kick boxing and cooking cruises … all these things change you.

Use this time to start to relearn how to be you. Discard the parts of you that you collected along the way that you don’t like so much, and focus on the parts of you that you love. Do things that bring out your verve for life, your fun side, your aspirations and flights of fancy. Don’t let their affair turn you into a shriveled, angry, codependent shadow of yourself.

11. Let Go
Let GoI am not suggesting you give up if you harbor dreams of a future with your active cheater, but I am saying that you have to look at this eyes wide open. They’ve chosen. They’ve chosen their affair over your relationship, and I know how it hurts to read that. A good friend of mine told me, “You lost, accept it and move on.” Ouch. But he was 100% on point.

Clinging on to an active cheater will likely cause them to ricochet further into their affair, and further away from you. Let go. Start to focus on your own life – don’t hold onto theirs by stalking them (or the affair partner) on Facebook. Stop trying to stay involved in your cheater’s life and relationship by checking their phone, reading their emails, trying to engage them in meaningful discussions about your marriage. Don’t weaponize your kids against them. Let go.

A cheater may return, they may not. The question isn’t what they’re doing – the question is about YOU and YOUR life, and how you want to live.

Let go – start living in singledom – figure out how to fix the faucet, go where you want when you want, start living a life – plug back into who you are. Leave them to it. If they come back, it shouldn’t be automatic that you accept them – by then, you might prefer life without them, to life with them.

12. Affair Fog? It’s You Who’s in it!
Your emotions are a bad influence on you right now. I know, you feel how you feel and you can’t switch that off very easily, even if you wanted to. However, if you removed the emotions that are clouding this whole situation and really looked at your cheater, who they are, how they behaved when the chips were down, how they responded to your anguish, it’s probably an ugly picture.

Two questions I often pose in the Chat Room here, are these:

1. If you met this person (your active cheater) for the first time, and saw all of this in them, would you even date them, let alone commit your whole future to them?

I haven’t yet had a single person answer that affirmatively with any seriousness.

2. If you were a multi billionaire, would you be making the choices that you are currently making?

Again, I have yet to hear anyone answer that they would make identical choices.

Our responses to this mess are influenced by our emotional state, our circumstances, and our personal values. The problem with our emotional state affecting our responses is that our feelings change, they’re mutable. Positive or negative feelings can wax and wane, and as such, they’re a really poor foundation upon which to base your decisions.

The reality that you face of financial insecurity, dependence, your home, your children, your future, is real. Try to put aside your emotional clouding and make choices that improve on each of those situations, preparing for the eventuality that you could well be facing life without your cheater. Think of how you feel today as an illusion that will change with time … because your feelings will eventually change towards an active cheater flaunting their affair.

Your Future
You can’t predict your future, but you can make robust and sensible plans that will assure your security, well-being, and independence. You know your circumstances today, and you know if they provide you with independent means, an ability to provide yourself a home and support yourself without reliance on anyone else. If that is NOT where your life is, that is where to start heading. Your life and happiness is not contingent on your active cheater and THEIR choices.

Get your life on track and viable in its own right, and then, if your cheater comes to you, cap in hand, you will have a new kickass attitude, a new focus, and a new sense of self-worth that says, “You know what? If you think you’re a good potential mate for my future, prove it.” And who knows, by then you might be dating someone else, who has never cheated on anyone, and you might find you prefer it.

When your world implodes you have to adapt to survive and thrive. You have to seize the opportunity to become who you want to be, who you are proud to be, even if your newly shaped peg doesn’t fit into the mold of your old hole.


----------



## barbados

drifter777 said:


> Very few BH's here on TAM will advocate that a man reconcile after she's been in a PA because our experience tells us it will not end well for either of them. Men will ruminate over the sexual aspect and never look at their wife the same again. They will never truly trust her. They will never believe that she didn't have other affairs that she will never reveal. The mind-movies and intrusive thoughts will destroy most men so we try to give them the benefit or our experiences and help them look beyond the immediate fear of losing the life they thought they had.
> 
> Many woman on infidelity forums deny the significant difference in the reaction and prognosis for healing based on BW vs. BH. I don't know why anyone wouldn't accept that there are radical differences the the psyche's of men and woman and so there are real differences in their responses.
> 
> Infidelity counselor Phillip Hodson put it this way and I think this says it all:
> 
> "For a betrayed woman, an affair is an offense against her dignity. For a betrayed man, it's an offense against his manhood. It goes right to the core of his identity."



QFT.


----------



## drifter777

JohnA said:


> 12. *Affair Fog? It’s You Who’s in it!*
> Your emotions are a bad influence on you right now. I know, you feel how you feel and you can’t switch that off very easily, even if you wanted to. However, if you removed the emotions that are clouding this whole situation and really looked at your cheater, who they are, how they behaved when the chips were down, how they responded to your anguish, it’s probably an ugly picture.


 @JohnA : Every BS knows this to be true. I often describe d-day for the BS as being in a state of emotional shock. They will never be angrier or sadder or more disgusted or all of these things than they are at that moment. They will also never be as emotionally vulnerable to the WS's tears and apologies and proclamations of love because there is nothing the BS wants at that time than to make this all go away. Now. They want the life they thought they had 5 minutes ago to come back because this new truth lights a match to everything in their world. Fear is not an adequate description for what the BS feels at this moment. It is sheer terror. Any decisions BS makes during this period of stunned shock are null and void as soon they are able to get their wits about them again.


----------



## just got it 55

Hurt Lots and lots of advice here 99% great 1 % good

I like to post simple thoughts and here's mine

I spent some time visiting a relative Danvers State Hospital for the insane.

The Danvers State Hospital, also known as the State Lunatic Hospital at Danvers, The Danvers Lunatic Asylum, and The Danvers State Insane Asylum, was a psychiatric hospital located in Danvers, Massachusetts.

When visiting my very first thought was I would rather die a slow painful death from cancer than lose my mind like these poor souls did. Believe me it's that bad.

Your Marriage is cancer and you will lose your mind dealing in the manner that you are approaching this.

Save yourself 

55


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## JohnA

20,000 posts. It seems what you really seek here is the comfort of company in despair. Your life reminds me the novel Once an Eagle combined with the "Sound and Fury". 

It does not have to be this way for either of you. For now, just walk far and long.

Be well


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## Hope1964

Hopeful Cynic said:


> a good portion of those 59% are unhappy but don't break up due to other pressures, financial, cultural, religious, etc.


EXACTLY.  There is a gigantic difference between staying married and reconciling. They're NOT the same thing. Many people stay married after cheating but hate each other - that isn't reconciliation at ALL.


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## SunCMars

Hope1964 said:


> EXACTLY. There is a gigantic difference between staying married and reconciling. They're NOT the same thing. Many people stay married after cheating but hate each other - that isn't reconciliation at ALL.


Sometime being the Contrarian, just because you are able to do so, is fun.

I looked up every definition and usage of Reconcile and could not show anything contrary to Hope's statement. I knew this, of course!

Only an Expert Spinner using "BumFuzzle" could flip this post.

He/she would say OP's smoking-gun clouded the real truth. Something like "Gunmoke's Kitty was not B-Girl".


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## jsmart

It's hard to offer positive advise to a BH that has a serial cheating wife. Based on what you've revealed to us, very few TAMers believe that in your 16 year marriage she hasn't had other affairs. 

This is a woman that in the morning sends your 3 kids off to school, gets in the car with you knowing she's about to have wanton sex with her soulmate, then gets back in the car, possibly leaking from OM, like nothing happened. You have to be pretty icy to do that. 

Go to the OW section of Love shack. You'll be able to read 100s of threads from WW that will infuriate you but gives you a glimpse into how WW's think. They all believe they're a special snowflake and there situation is different but as a man, you'll see the same pattern over and over and I'm sure you'll have a better understanding of your WW thinking and thought processes.

You've never answered how your sex life and affection level is. Are you getting once a week duty sex with friend's zone level affection? Also you said you were married for 16 years but said you have a 17 year old. Is the 17 year old her exOm's kid or some other man's kid?


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## Hope1964

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


No, and no. And wtf does it matter anyway?? It's like being "a little bit" pregnant. You can't be a "little bit" of a cheater.

So have you at least scheduled an STD test appt with your dr?


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## MJJEAN

I was a WW in my first marriage. I know of friends and family who have also had affairs. The pattern seems to be that if a spouse has gotten caught cheating more than once, they also had undiscovered affairs.


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## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> Marriage builders (Dr. Harley) says that some 70-80% of his clients recover their marriages after infidelity. I've see similar statistics other places.
> 
> Here is another source....
> 
> "A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away. 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal.
> That also means that a whopping 78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair!"
> 
> Statistics on Cheating ? How Many Relationships Survive an Affair?
> 
> 
> There seems to be a group-think belief on TAM that a betrayed spouse MUST get a divorce; that all marriages fail after infidelity; etc etc. Due to this, most male BS's who come here are pushed to end their marriage. How many people on this thread are trying to help the OP recover his marriage?


Studies have reported that 30-35% of marriages survive infidelity. They also report 45% of marriages survive if the husband cheats. BY my math, that means about 15% of marriages survive if the wife cheats. Further, 80% of affairs are never discovered.

Marriage builders stats only pertain to the subset that come to them. Most people simply dump the cheater without investing time and money with a cheating spouse.

Serial cheaters are another animal and are not known for ever being faithful because of psychological issues.

Searching serial cheaters and infidelity statistics is eye opening or it used to be.

Worse is that it takes 4-5 years to get over cheating. My opinion is you never get over it.


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## ABHale

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Sorry, no....


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## ABHale

EleGirl said:


> Marriage builders (Dr. Harley) says that some 70-80% of his clients recover their marriages after infidelity. I've see similar statistics other places.
> 
> Here is another source....
> 
> "A recent survey conducted in the USA found some interesting statistics on cheating and divorce rates. No doubt infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships, but the numbers are a little surprising to me: only 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away. 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal.
> That also means that a whopping 78 percent of these couples actually never broke up because of an affair!"
> 
> Statistics on Cheating ? How Many Relationships Survive an Affair?
> 
> 
> There seems to be a group-think belief on TAM that a betrayed spouse MUST get a divorce; that all marriages fail after infidelity; etc etc. Due to this, most male BS's who come here are pushed to end their marriage. How many people on this thread are trying to help the OP recover his marriage?


But how many are in a happy marriage now or just going through the motions for the sake of the kids?


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## AVR1962

You requested positive comments only. Were you hoping to hear this could be worked out? That all you had to do was _____?I hate to say this but your wife is a serial cheater and she will not change. People like this feed off of the newness in these flingy hopeless relationships. I think it is because their own self image is so scarred but trying to make a difference in their lives in like pulling teeth, it is next to impossible.

You might not want to leave for whatever reason but this will not stop and you have ever right to be hurt and offended. So do you stay and make the best of the situation despite what is going on or do you leave and find your own happiness?


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## EleGirl

drifter777 said:


> Very few BH's here on TAM will advocate that a man reconcile after she's been in a PA because our experience tells us it will not end well for either of them. Men will ruminate over the sexual aspect and never look at their wife the same again. They will never truly trust her. They will never believe that she didn't have other affairs that she will never reveal. The mind-movies and intrusive thoughts will destroy most men so we try to give them the benefit or our experiences and help them look beyond the immediate fear of losing the life they thought they had.


Very few BHs’ on TAM will advocate for martial recovery ever because TAM is self-selected community of people who mostly advocate for divorce in all cases of infidelity. It’s the culture here as can be seen by the reaction to me daring to suggest that the OP look at alternative points of view.

There is not one person on TAM who has training and experience in marriage counseling, recovering from infidelity, etc. 

It is wrong for posters here to bagger someone to divorce and not try for recovery. It’s wrong to try to shut down alterative points of view. Different opinions are allowed and encouraged.

We can offer our opinion based on our own experience. And we can point out things like books and other material for the OP to read. The idea is to give the OP different options. The OP is intelligent. He can read the posts here, read the books, talk to counselors and then make up his own mind about what he wants to do. It’s his life. Not your life. Not the life of anyone else posting here. He has to live with whatever decisions/actions he makes. He’d better have a good broad based set of info to make those decisions and to base those actions on.

The posts on here attacking me for suggesting an alternative approach are out of hand. You don’t like my point of view. Too bad. It’s a valid as yours or anyone else’s.



drifter777;16781418Men will ruminate over the sexual aspect and never look at their wife the same again. They will never truly trust her. They will never believe that she didn't have other affairs that she will never reveal. The mind-movies and intrusive thoughts will destroy most men so we try to give them the benefit or our experiences and help them look beyond the immediate fear of losing the life they thought they had. [/QUOTE said:


> Do you really think that betrayed women do not go through this just as much as men do? Of course we do. Geez.
> I think that it’s a pretty big stereo type that you are painting here, that somehow all men are so fragile that all men cannot handle reconciliation. The men I know in my real life are individuals. Each have their own strengths. They are not all the same. Shoot some have even been able to reconcile their marriage after their wives cheated. The Marriage Builder material helped a lot of them.
> 
> 
> 
> drifter777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many woman on infidelity forums deny the significant difference in the reaction and prognosis for healing based on BW vs. BH. I don't know why anyone wouldn't accept that there are radical differences the the psyche's of men and woman and so there are real differences in their responses.
> 
> 
> 
> The main difference is that since the dawn of time women have been taught that their husbands will cheat and that a good wife ignores it and pretends that it’s not going on. There is still a residual of this in today’s society.
> 
> The reason for it is that women were 100% dependent on their cheating husband for their financial support of themselves and their children. So women had little to no option to leave a cheating husband. It’s not because women are any less humiliated, hurt, etc. than men when their spouse cheats.
Click to expand...


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## EleGirl

ABHale said:


> But how many are in a happy marriage now or just going through the motions for the sake of the kids?


From my experience and people I know, a lot.

I think it's up to the OP to decide if he wants to give reconciliation a try. And I think it's a good idea to give him info and help so that he can look at all angels. 

My bet is that if he tries for reconciliation for say 6 months or so, he'll know by the end of that time if it's a path that he wants to take. I'll bet he's smart enough and emotionally strong enough to handle it.


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## ABHale

Not really. There are several on TAM that have reconciled. I think the count is positive to the R if was added up. The thing is if the cheater actually shows that they regret what they have done and shown real remorse. If they come clean when discovered or the sheer shame and guilt lead them to confess on their own. That I believe the husband or wife could get over it. 

But if they hide, lie and belittle the BS then only come clean with hard proof. Then screw the POS cheater and kick them to the curb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dianaelaine59

It seems you are all talking to yourselves! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

The repeated characterizations that TAM is this or TAM is that are simply cases of individuals lashing out because they feel they are not being heard.

TAM does not have a uniform voice on D, R, women or men. Please pause, reflect, and understand the poster you are arguing with SIMPLY HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION.

And no one has a lone voice here as the only one supporting a particular position - that is victim-speak actually.

So take a chill-pill and realize that the 5th time you've stated your opinion probably means that we know what you're thinking.

Sorry to interrupt - please continue shouting at each other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha

EleGirl said:


> I believe that the 22% includes the 19% who originally ended their marriage.


I find these figures really hard to believe. With current divorce rates and the fact that the number one reason for divorce is infidelity, I would say it is at least close to a 50:50 split. The 50% that stay, stay for unhealthy reasons. Also the geography involved should be considered. In the east and middle east women almost never divorce unfaithful husbands and unfaithful women never get to be divorced (grim, I know).

In Europe, again it depends on the geography: France high acceptance of "inevitable" infidelity. In Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece - men more likely to divorce unfaithful wives (almost 100%) than the other way round. UK similar to USA. German countries, Netherlands, Belgium not as bad as South when it comes to the woman cheating. Not as bad as UK for the other way round. Scandinavians will consider reasons for infidelity before divorce.

But I still maintain that eastern mentality excluded, most cases of infidelity end in divorce.


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## tailrider3

You are not going to like this as you want to stay but here are my thoughts for what it is worth. I have thought about how I would react in a similar situation as I have some "questions" on my end given current circumstances. But seriously, if she cheated, and this is the second time, I would leave her my friend. You go out and find some smoking hot young women that would appreciate you and not just want you for your money (or if they do who cares...you're not marrying them). Then you bring one of your new girlfriends along when you or your wife pick up the kids and watch her jaw hit the floor. Payback is a mofo.


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## tailrider3

LOL


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## EunuchMonk

EleGirl said:


> There is not one person on TAM who has training and experience in marriage counseling, recovering from infidelity, etc.


I do. The church made some of us young ones take a few courses in it. I wouldn't consider myself full-fledged or an expert. I did advocate for reconciliation but if OP continues being as ineffective as his initial post suggests, authentic reconciliation is but a dream.


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## drifting on

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?





HTG

Absolutely it could be two affairs, absolutely your wife may not be a serial cheater, all that matters is what you believe. If you think she has had two affairs then so be it, I'm not saying this negatively or sarcastically, but telling you the probability of your wife not having more then two affairs could be me being less then honest with you. While it is true she has had two affairs, I think it would be considered rare if she didn't have more. 

I support the decision of the OP, that said if you want to reconcile I'll support you. What I find difficult to do is to set a person up for more pain. This would be if you chose to rug sweep rather then try to rectify and have a resolution to the problems before you. This would be consequences, an action plan for your wife, and the therapy your wife must attend. Right now you are thinking with emotions, instead of thinking and deciding in reality. You may feel you are making good decisions, but reality is you are making decisions as if you are intoxicated. The full reality of what happened hasn't probably hit you or your wife yet, but it will and its brutal. 

I suggested to you to wait six months, watch your wife's actions over these six months. Learn what you can about divorce and reconciliation. Get therapy for yourself, begin a workout regimen for yourself. Find what's broken in you, repair what's broken in you, repair the issues you brought to your marriage that were toxic. I'm not saying you are the fault of your wife's infidelity, I'm saying to better yourself for either your reconciliation or for IF you divorce. These are the first steps that you should take, this is what you need to do first, MC can come after the six months. 

As for TAM, the opinions here I consider to be great. Some of the posters are very intelligent and help immensely. Others maybe not so much, but those posters are showing you things you may not have thought of, or a different perspective. The posters here I believe really do care about everyone, even though you may not like what they are telling you. I think you will be fine in selecting the advice that applies to your situation and discard what does not apply. Whatever happens OP, I hope and pray that you get through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

hurtingtechguy said:


> The OM is married and has a serious track history of cheating on his wife and pursuing other women.


So you called his wife and told her, right?

Right?

And you have talked to her boss at this company and told them?

If you're too chicken to do those two things, you don't have a chance in hell.


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## turnera

hurtingtechguy said:


> Just catching up on this thread from yesterday, a lot of responses and a lot of information to choke down.....
> 
> Does anyone here believe it could only be twice? Does anyone believe there is a chance she is not a serial cheater?


Yes, I believe there's a chance she is not a serial cheater. When I was newly married - and I married because I was 'supposed to' - it's what everyone expected me to do, my H pursued me, so I got married. A year later, I'm in a class, a guy sits next to me who I was attracted to, and I let him talk to me several weeks before I told him the truth (I hadn't been wearing my ring because of fear of robbery at night). 

I'm not a bad person. But I'm human. The attention felt good. 

That said, what you do NOW is what matters. And I don't see you doing much in terms of (1) ensuring it's not easy for her to cheat again and (2) changing y'all's marriage so she doesn't WANT to cheat again.

That, I can give you advice about.


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## Mr Blunt

To:	hurtingtechguy
You have not told us very much about your wife. Is she remorseful? What actions have she taken to show you she is remorseful? Does she respect you? Is she willing to do all that is available to put the trust back into the marriage?
Since you did not give us very much information on your wife I will address this to you.

First a little recap:

1	Your wife cheated on you many years ago and again this year

2	She put the OM ahead of you in some pretty destructive ways (e.g. when you were ion the hospital she was in contact with him)

3	You have three children with her (11, 14,17)

4	You said,	I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family

5	You said,	am struggling terribly.

6	You said	I want to believe my wife and have our marriage get through this. Problem is my own mind and thoughts are preventing any type of progress

7	You do not trust her

8	You want something positive



Here is what I think is positive:

*It will be extremely positive if you diligently pursue every possible source that can help you get stronger emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually*. I mean go after that very aggressively; like a badger going after honey!

If you get a lot stronger you will have a chance to attract your wife back to you if that is your goal. Of course your wife will have to make some changes. *In addition, when you get stronger you will be in much better shape to get your life in order and help your children regardless what your wife does.* Some people may try and tell you this is selfish for you to just concentrate on yourself but *it is not selfish it is SURVIVAL.* You are unable to help your wife until you are strong enough to stop “struggling terribly” 

Your wife does not respect you like you should be respected and she does not have strong love for you at this time. YOU must take action to help yourself as she is limited in what she can do to help you. You are weak because she has devastated you just like all of us were in the first months after D-Day. *You do not have to be ashamed to admit that you are weak but you will regret it terrible if you stay weak!
*
I found that building yourself up and allowing natural consequences to occur for your wife is about all you can do. You cannot change her to the degree that you want she will have to do that.* You need to force yourself to put her out of your mind, do not shield her from any consequences, and strive with focus and extreme vigor to build yourself up*. Any time you allow her or her actions to occupy your thoughts and activities is time that will make you go backwards.

You asked if we thought that she would not continue to be a serial cheater. *My positive answer is yes if she is truly remorseful, takes actions to be discipline and accountable, and learns to respect and love you with a strong and committed love.
*


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## Evinrude58

Mr Blunt said:


> To:	hurtingtechguy
> You have not told us very much about your wife. Is she remorseful? What actions have she taken to show you she is remorseful? Does she respect you? Is she willing to do all that is available to put the trust back into the marriage?
> Since you did not give us very much information on your wife I will address this to you.
> 
> First a little recap:
> 
> 1	Your wife cheated on you many years ago and again this year
> 
> 2	She put the OM ahead of you in some pretty destructive ways (e.g. when you were ion the hospital she was in contact with him)
> 
> 3	You have three children with her (11, 14,17)
> 
> 4	You said,	I have and have absolutely no intentions of leaving her or my family
> 
> 5	You said,	am struggling terribly.
> 
> 6	You said	I want to believe my wife and have our marriage get through this. Problem is my own mind and thoughts are preventing any type of progress
> 
> 7	You do not trust her
> 
> 8	You want something positive
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what I think is positive:
> 
> *It will be extremely positive if you diligently pursue every possible source that can help you get stronger emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually*. I mean go after that very aggressively; like a badger going after honey!
> 
> If you get a lot stronger you will have a chance to attract your wife back to you if that is your goal. Of course your wife will have to make some changes. *In addition, when you get stronger you will be in much better shape to get your life in order and help your children regardless what your wife does.* Some people may try and tell you this is selfish for you to just concentrate on yourself but *it is not selfish it is SURVIVAL.* You are unable to help your wife until you are strong enough to stop “struggling terribly”
> 
> Your wife does not respect you like you should be respected and she does not have strong love for you at this time. YOU must take action to help yourself as she is limited in what she can do to help you. You are weak because she has devastated you just like all of us were in the first months after D-Day. *You do not have to be ashamed to admit that you are weak but you will regret it terrible if you stay weak!
> *
> I found that building yourself up and allowing natural consequences to occur for your wife is about all you can do. You cannot change her to the degree that you want she will have to do that.* You need to force yourself to put her out of your mind, do not shield her from any consequences, and strive with focus and extreme vigor to build yourself up*. Any time you allow her or her actions to occupy your thoughts and activities is time that will make you go backwards.
> 
> You asked if we thought that she would not continue to be a serial cheater. *My positive answer is yes if she is truly remorseful, takes actions to be discipline and accountable, and learns to respect and love you with a strong and committed love.
> *


This is so exactly correct, perfect advice. You should listen. I was weak when all this started with me. Honestly, had I not been so weak and somehow forced myself to stop acting on my emotions-- i.e. hysterical bonding, begging, pleading, getting depressed, I think I could have gotten through this with my crappy, cheating, ex wife. But I didn't. I stayed weak and struggled as you put it.
You CANNOT fix this until you get yourself in a totally different frame of mind. I would see a therapist, and force myself to work out and exercise, and force myself to do things I know I should be doing and was putting off. He is exactly correct in telling you that every minute you spend thinking about your wife, is a step backwards. When you find yourself dwelling on her---- right that minute you'd better get busy, or it will eat you up from the inside. This stuff ain't easy. I couldn't do it. I'm divorced and dealing with a broken family and 3 kids now. It's hard.

Don't let this happen. You MUST get stronger, or you will get worse. You can do this. You just have to spend that emotion getting angry, motivated, DESPERATE to improve yourself in every way possible. When you get yourself to the point that you can see yourself with a good life no matter what happens, you'll be able to handle whatever comes your way.

I'd reread the quoted post over and over every day.


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