# Anxiety undermines everything



## TrueGentleman (Apr 29, 2009)

I feel extremely anxious when my wife gets angry with me. My stomach gets tied up in knots, my heart starts to race, and sometimes I'll feel nauseated or light-headed.

Over the years, this reaction occurs more and more quickly; often if I even _anticipate_ that she will be angry with me, I start to feel that anxiety building.

This completely robs me of any personal power. Once this reaction kicks in, I've already lost control over my emotions, and if my wife is demanding that I explain my actions, I quickly get flustered and unable to think logically. After the fact, when I have settled down, I can approach her and explain how I was feeling and what I was thinking, but she's often suspicious that I'm changing my story and rationalizing my behavior. 

At any rate, I end up looking some combination of: fearful, irrational, unable to control my emotions, inarticulate, incompetent, and full of excuses. Most of the time, when she gets really angry with me, I get flustered and inarticulate, and if she keeps pushing and being "mean" I often break down into tears and cry. This would often get her more irritated with me, as she felt like she had just kicked a puppy. On very rare occasions (I think it's happened twice in 7 years), I feel a surge of righteous indignation and raise my voice in anger (still not really yelling though). And of course, at that point it's all about me "yelling" at her and she won't let go of that.

Clearly, this is a major factor in my inability to break out of the "nice guy" approach to relationships. I've never been comfortable with confrontations, and angry people in general get me feeling uncomfortable. It has to be a primary cause of many of the issues in my relationship with my wife. She will have a difficult time seeing me as sexually attractive when I'm afraid of her. A puppy dog looking back at her after having being kicked is about as un-sexy as it gets.

Every time that I compromise my values or who I am in order to please her, it comes from this anxiety.

Do you guys wrestle with this anxiety (or did you in the past)? Is this part of the common "nice guy" experience, or is more my own personal stuff? How do you work through it? I find that regular exercise helps, but as soon as something happens and that habit is broken for a few days, I can feel the anxiety levels rising again.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Yes it is very common.

Yes, I shared this trait.

Yes, you have to trust that you can and must change it.

In my case, a very large portion of it stemmed from being willing to take ownership of other peoples feelings. Didn't matter if it was a significant other, a family member, friend, co-worker or complete stranger.

If things got tense and unpleasant, for reasons I cannot possibly fathom, I somehow felt responsible for trying to 'fix' it, and make everything smooth and happy. What happens in that circumstance, is over time people recognize this about you ... and rather than your being a peace-maker, you become a scapegoat and whipping-boy.

If your wife is pissed, those feelings are hers. They aren't yours. If following the nice guy script, you will find a way to take ownership of, and responsibility for her negative emotions.

This is deeply, deeply, flawed. It is NOT a positive or healthy characteristic by any measure. 

First order of business. Usually, you have nothing to do with the emotional state of others. You are not responsible for how your wife feels. Even moreso, if she is being aggressive and disrespectful, and you in turn 'apologize' for her emotional state, you are giving her the green light to use you as an emotional doormat. You are fostering it.

So start being responsible for your feelings - and stop worrying about other peoples.

If you feel that anxiety welling up inside. Hold up your hand and say, I'll need to talk to you about this later. Do not utter any words other than those even if her head starts spinning and she starts projectile vomiting bile at you.

The anxiety is a result of feeling emotionally out of control. Not knowing what to do with, or how to respond to anger.

Often, it doesn't require any response other than acknowledgment. "I can see that you are angry. We'll talk about this later."

That is fair. And importantly? It is empowering.

Get comfy with anger. Anger is the friend that has your back in a bar-fight.

If this is a serious problem for you, then I strongly would urge you to get your ass in therapy. Seriously.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is very valuable "self awareness". 

There are ways to program "behaviors" into yourself. I am not a behavioral expert but this is the "little" bit I do know:
- As a man some level of your "comfort" with conflict has a physical foundation. I do NOT smack/punch people - LEAST of all my W (LMAO at the very thought). That said the "stronger" - not just cardio fitness but stronger (in terms of upper body strength) I feel the harder it is for ANYTHING to scare me. 

AND at least for me - you only get 2 "shots" before I walk away. The initial poke, I respond. The second poke - I respond again. If there is anything even close to a third poke I silently walk away. No one has the right to keep hammering you when YOU are being constructive. Just walk away. 

And then for me - I am very aware of "patterns". And most people are delightfully consistent. Even my W who is constantly inventing new fitness tests - there is a pattern to them. If you recognize a "pattern" of your W giving you grief start with:
1. Is it you? Meaning are you repeatedly doing/not doing/forgetting something important to her? If so - fix THAT.
2. If not - if this is just a seemingly random poke/set of pokes from her - PRE-PROGRAM your responses. That way you are not trying to come up with a clever answer while feeling super anxious. If she is "right" she gets a quick apology - but if she continues you find a way to SHUT HER DOWN very quickly and very firmly. Learn/develop a "sharp" tone of voice. Practice - I am not kidding. Being LOUD represents a lack of control. But a controlled sharp tone - is very effective. 

My W and I are BOTH a bit overly tenacious at times. And so when faced with someone who is "still bringin it - after an unqualified apology" the recipient uses a sharp tone and asks "What part of I am totally sorry" did you not understand?

Actually - when she is functionally insane - which isn't often I go to the well and come back with "I am not here to be your kicked dog" this is followed by a "what the hell is wrong with you"? look. 






TrueGentleman said:


> I feel extremely anxious when my wife gets angry with me. My stomach gets tied up in knots, my heart starts to race, and sometimes I'll feel nauseated or light-headed.
> 
> Over the years, this reaction occurs more and more quickly; often if I even _anticipate_ that she will be angry with me, I start to feel that anxiety building.
> 
> ...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Agree with Deejo.

Not sure I really have ever gotten physical symptoms, but my instincts definitely tell me to keep the peace at all costs.

Last night wife and I were having a "discussion" about how much she'd been on Facebook which led to a brief staring contest. I "almost" flinched. I expected her to amplify things and ask what my problem was. But she finally looked away and got a drink of water. I don't know if I accomplished anything - but I took a step out of my comfort zone and it didn't kill me.

I think most of it is just practice and confidence.

Also agree with Deejo that therapy - and possibly medication - can help.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Yes it is very common.
> 
> Yes, I shared this trait.
> 
> ...



:iagree: 100%. Although Im not a guy, I have nice guy issues that are described here. I have been the doormat, allowed myself that privilage by constantly taking the blame for my husbands bad behavior and allowing him to get away with not apologizing or owning his bad behavior... I thought I was taking the higher road" "keeping the peace" blah blah blah. Over the past 18 months I have gotten the help of a therapist who tried to teach me week after week that my husbands bad bahaviors were not bc of me or anything I did or didnt do, they are HIS. He chooses not to own them, I was choosing to let things go to "keep trying"... hand over the doormat please and wipe your feet on me! Now, I finally get it and it has thrown our marriage off balance to the point my husband sought a divorce (see my other thread on here), and now has come back around to wanting to move forward with me. I no longer take responsibility for his actions, I dont get upset at him for trying to place the blame on me, I just simply disallow it... and when he doesnt own his action, it just sits there now... and the other day was a real breakthrough where he actually took it in and apologized for it instead of using it as an excuse to give me a silent treatment (that was my fault in his eyes, like he has done our entire marriage).

If you cant do this alone, do as Deejo says and get a therapist to help you understand that you do not own someone else's behavior, moods, actions, reactions... whatever they do or say is theirs. You need to learn to deflect it and not feel bad about there not being peace, or your wife trying to beat it into you that it is your fault and then to not let it swell up any reactions in you. Anytime you get emotional in one of these encounters, you give your wife power! My therapist said that over and over and I didnt get it... how did I give him power by telling him I didnt do what he said I did to cause something? She would tell me by explaining myself I was reacting defensively and it hands him the power... here take it. Any reaction give s them feedback and is power. If your wife acts like that, you need to learn to simply do as Deejo explained.

It is worth it for your current marriage and if that doesnt work out, for you in life in general. Best of luck.


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## Xander (Oct 20, 2010)

I used to have the EXACT same problem with my ex-wife, my bosses, etc. 

Deejo is exactly right that the problem stems from taking ownership of OTHER PEOPLE's emotions. You need to learn how to let people go through their own processes without getting involved yourself. This is particularly hard to do for a wife, because husbands and wives are in the habit of feeling responsible for one another. Part of that is legitimate, but a lot of it is bull****. 

After my divorce, my therapist and I discussed a lot of my problems with anxiety, and she attributes a lot of my reactions to a couple of recurring themes in my childhood. 1. My mother was often depressed, and when she was depressed or angry, she would fixate on a particular problem. E.g., I'm sad because the laundry isn't folded. So I learned that when another person's emotions were ruining my life, the solution was to patch up whatever superficial problem was to blame at that moment. That taught me to be a "nice guy" -- to demand no strength or stability from the people in my personal life and always to take ownership of problems -- which served me poorly in my declining marriage. 2. My dad would hit me when he grew angry with me, because he wasn't smart or strong enough to deal with his emotions any other way. That instilled in me -- almost like Pavolv's dogs -- a creeping fear of other people's anger.

I wouldn't be surprised if you and I had some background in common. Obviously the best solution is for you to seek therapy, identify your unique reasons for reacting the way you do, and understand them.

In the meantime, you need to grow confident in your own strength. Numerous articles in the science section of the NYT, popular blogs, etc., will tell you that practicing strength and discipline in one sector of your life will improve strength and discipline in all sectors. E.g., practicing the emotional strength and discipline to stick to a diet will make you better at sticking to a budget, too. 

I recommend you start working out (or keep working out) and, in addition, joining a boxing gym or taking karate or something. OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KUNG FU YOUR WIFE. But if the root cause of your anxiety is a deeply embedded association between another person's anger and your own helplessness, your instinctual confidence in your ability to protect yourself will make this reaction less severe. JUST THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CAN PROTECT YOURSELF PHYSICALLY WILL HELP YOU PROTECT YOURSELF EMOTIONALLY.

As for your wife: start standing up to her around the edges. Try telling her just one time when she's upset that (1) her well being is important to you, but (2) it costs you too much to talk to her when she's upset, therefore (3) she should seek you out when she calms down and is able to articulate what's wrong without growing angry or weepy. Then STICK TO IT. Leave the house if you need to. Maybe she'll try to escalate the situation -- some women really will exercise the nuclear option -- but you have to be willing to show her that you'd rather do without her than tolerate the **** any more. Otherwise, if she comes down and approaches you on your terms, you can reward her with affection and security. 

We could talk all day about this. Good luck.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I just wanted to echo that it's not just men, and unfortunately I'm the archetypal weeping and wailing woman - the moment my OH says more than I can cope with, I lose the mental ability to find a sensible answer, my chin goes and I'm done for
Then, of course, he tells me to stop crying which makes me angry and more upset 
Then the cycle goes on 
I stand no chance of working out, let alone remembering, what I might or should have said, until some time later with a piece of paper and pencil
The notion of being comfy with anger, and walking away, which ironically is something my OH *almost* has a handle on, is not something I've yet got to grips with


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’d never been fearful of anyone in my life. When I recognised I was literally in fear of what my wife was going to say next that was the time I ended my marriage. I’d done the personal boundary/N.U.T.s. but she just totally trashed and then ignored them. I knew it was over then. I still fear what she’ll come out with and that’s why I’ll never see her again.

Bob


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Her anger is about her, not about you.

I have the same problem you have (though I'm a woman).

When she goes into a tirade at you, envision her as a stomping toddler having a tantrum. 

That image makes her silly, not threatening.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

toolate said:


> I no longer take responsibility for his actions, I dont get upset at him for trying to place the blame on me, I just simply disallow it.


toolate, one question about this: HOW?


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## gregj123 (Dec 29, 2010)

xanaxe works wonders


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> toolate, one question about this: HOW?


Ask those parts to step back.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Ask those parts to step back.


I did that last night.
I felt myself starting to "dig" on a dumb and pointless comment, but said "step back" to myself instead.
And averted pointless conflict.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I did that last night.
> I felt myself starting to "dig" on a dumb and pointless comment, but said "step back" to myself instead.
> And averted pointless conflict.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Show yourself it was no accident


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Show yourself it was no accident


*sigh* I don't like all these perceptive comments -too close to home!


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