# I admire those with the strength to tolerate AP's that become the ex's spouse



## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

We have a client that has reached out to us again. We handled her divorce two years ago, she did very well. Her husband had been cheating on her for a couple years with a mutual friend of theirs/wife of his best friend. They have twin 6 year old's. The other woman has no children. Anyway, about a year after both of their divorces her ex married his AP. In the settlement agreement our client, the wife, got full custody of the twins. Dad, who was too busy being in "lurve" with his AP was cool with no holidays, every other weekend, and optional 1 week over the summer for vacation. As I've advised people here to do, we used their "lurve" as leverage to get a favorable agreement.

The cheating ex and his new wife have discovered she can not have children. This has now changed their attitude about the twins. Now they want to play mom and dad. They've requested having the twins this Christmas and taking them to her family's Christmas get-together. Every year of their lives so far the twins have been with mom (and formerly dad too) at her family's big Christmas shindig. Mom has the legal status to stand on. Dad signed the agreement, he gets no holidays. They also want equal time/custody with mom. The new wife's parents are well off and have agreed to fund a legal challenge to the custody agreement.

Mom has basically told her ex to F off. What she got back was an email from the AP/new wife essentially saying (and I'm paraphrasing in the quote):

"I know you love _______ and _______ but so do we and they're our children as much as they are yours. I am their stepmother whether you like it or not and I have rights. We will take you to court for years if we have to but we will be an equal part of the children's lives. That's how it should be and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I hope we can all get along some day and the kids love you and I as their mother but I'll do whatever I have to to protect my family and spend time with them. You need to grow up. People get divorced. Step parents have legal rights."

Of course we're going to crush them in court if it comes to that, which it won't. The AP/new wife knows this. I'm sure they've had a consultation and were told the same thing which explains this vitriolic email. If they had actually retained an attorney they would have been advised to absolutely NOT send something like this.

The point of the post is how sad these situations make me and how much I sympathize with the sh*t storm this poor mother has to endure. The AP/new wife is right. She is the step mother of the twins. That is a fact. With that said, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't get murderous real quick if I was in her shoes. Whenever I see that a betrayed spouse has murdered the AP or their ex I used to be very morally judgmental about those types of situations. After working in my field for decades and seeing the pain that these people go through, I've come way off that high horse.

If you're going through anything remotely similar to this, my heart goes out to you. I don't see how you can do it.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

As sad and heartbreaking as it is, it’s a reality for many. And many didn’t have the means to fight that kind of battle. I personally know some who had ended up having to ‘equally share’ their children with the AP-turned-spouse for many years.

Funny though, how AP/new wife preaches about being there for the children now when she found she couldn’t have children of her own.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

They want to upset the established routine of the kids for their own selfish reasons.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I hope the exwife wins and the AP/WexH get nothing.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

And once again I thank God that all my kids were adults when their mother left with a friend. I admire those that have to take their children and drop them off and see the x, that would of tore me up.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

She's the stepmother and they want to spend more time with the kids. This seems like a win for the kids unless they are being mistreated. Adults are so petty.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

PigglyWiggly said:


> She's the stepmother and they want to spend more time with the kids. This seems like a win for the kids unless they are being mistreated. Adults are so petty.


PW, you are joking, right?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

PigglyWiggly said:


> She's the stepmother and they want to spend more time with the kids. This seems like a win for the kids unless they are being mistreated. Adults are so petty.


I would agree if all they wanted was to alter the custody agreement for more time. It sounds like they want GIANT changes, including holiday disruption, and that they want it YESTERDAY. And the fact that it never crossed their mind until she found out she couldn't have children?

The OW's approach was also bad. You don't threaten and try to bully the mother of the stepchildren you didn't want until recently. You respectfully try to work with her.

You know, that whole honey vs vinegar thing.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I would agree if all they wanted was to alter the custody agreement for more time. It sounds like they want GIANT changes, including holiday disruption, and that they want it YESTERDAY. And the fact that it never crossed their mind until she found out she couldn't have children?
> 
> The OW's approach was also bad. You don't threaten and try to bully the mother of the stepchildren you didn't want until recently. You respectfully try to work with her.
> 
> You know, that whole honey vs vinegar thing.


What would Jesus have the mother to do? It's a fascinating topic to me. The kids are going to get extra holidays and celebrations...extra love from another set of grandparents. Unless they are being mistreated, I don't get the hostility.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I just love clients that change their fool minds after they have signed off on a major life changing agreement. Nine times out of ten, you will get a party that wants to go back to court and claim that they signed under duress. Sorry, most of the time one partner signs the agreement while deep in the fog. VK, I give the other side about two years before he starts blaming the new wife for him not seeing his kids. He will build resentment toward her, eventually he will cheat on her as well. Or vice-versa. AP's marrying? Rarely works.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

PigglyWiggly said:


> What would Jesus have the mother to do? It's a fascinating topic to me. The kids are going to get extra holidays and celebrations...extra love from another set of grandparents. Unless they are being mistreated, I don't get the hostility.


The hostility is from the following: 

1) he had an affair and abandoned his children. Yeah, a couple of weekends but that is all we need so I can look like a father. 

2) OW/Stepmom did not really want the kids around that much because they were partying and being in LOVE... Until she understood that she could not give him any children. Oops....

3) Then she has the audacity to send a threating letter to the ExW/Betrayed Spouse, who was a friend of hers at one time, DEMANDING more time with the kids because she "loves" them and wants to have them for Christmas. 

So yeah, ExW/Betrayed spouse tells her to F off and die. 

The ExH/wayward spouse that originally abandoned his kids for his new piece of ass, doesn't look like he cars at all. He just wants his new love to be happy. 

Are you saying that ExW should be ok with this? 

I don't think she should...


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

It's a sad situation indeed. The father and stepmother wanted nothing to do with the twins until they discovered they couldn't create their their own happy little family. None of this will be good for the kids and my prediction is dad and his new wife will be divorced within 5 years. How twisted will these kids view of marriage be by the time they are adults.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

VermiciousKnid said:


> We have a client that has reached out to us again. We handled her divorce two years ago, she did very well. Her husband had been cheating on her for a couple years with a mutual friend of theirs/wife of his best friend. They have twin 6 year old's. The other woman has no children. Anyway, about a year after both of their divorces her ex married his AP. In the settlement agreement our client, the wife, got full custody of the twins. Dad, who was too busy being in "lurve" with his AP was cool with no holidays, every other weekend, and optional 1 week over the summer for vacation. As I've advised people here to do, we used their "lurve" as leverage to get a favorable agreement.
> 
> The cheating ex and his new wife have discovered she can not have children. This has now changed their attitude about the twins. Now they want to play mom and dad. They've requested having the twins this Christmas and taking them to her family's Christmas get-together. Every year of their lives so far the twins have been with mom (and formerly dad too) at her family's big Christmas shindig. Mom has the legal status to stand on. Dad signed the agreement, he gets no holidays. They also want equal time/custody with mom. The new wife's parents are well off and have agreed to fund a legal challenge to the custody agreement.
> 
> ...


That's just sick. The step mum surely has no legal rights and the dad signed most of his away. Sending such a disgusting email wont help her cause. I hope your client keeps that for future reference.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I am not one of those who thinks a WS should lose their kids. Because that is ridiculous. It conflates a marital issue with a parenting one, unless the kids were harmed or something.

However, this is a man who signed his kids away, basically, and he and his new woman planned to start a brand new family from scratch. Only NOW that new woman can't conceive do the kids have any value to them. I am not saying there cannot be some wiggle room or alterations made. I AM saying that the OW has a lot of gall to come in with demands and threats.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> We have a client that has reached out to us again. We handled her divorce two years ago, she did very well. Her husband had been cheating on her for a couple years with a mutual friend of theirs/wife of his best friend. They have twin 6 year old's. The other woman has no children. Anyway, about a year after both of their divorces her ex married his AP. In the settlement agreement our client, the wife, got full custody of the twins. Dad, who was too busy being in "lurve" with his AP was cool with no holidays, every other weekend, and optional 1 week over the summer for vacation. As I've advised people here to do, we used their "lurve" as leverage to get a favorable agreement.
> 
> The cheating ex and his new wife have discovered she can not have children. This has now changed their attitude about the twins. Now they want to play mom and dad. They've requested having the twins this Christmas and taking them to her family's Christmas get-together. Every year of their lives so far the twins have been with mom (and formerly dad too) at her family's big Christmas shindig. Mom has the legal status to stand on. Dad signed the agreement, he gets no holidays. They also want equal time/custody with mom. The new wife's parents are well off and have agreed to fund a legal challenge to the custody agreement.
> 
> ...


I went with what was best for my child. Using that criteria, things turned out great.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> What would Jesus have the mother to do? It's a fascinating topic to me. The kids are going to get extra holidays and celebrations...extra love from another set of grandparents. Unless they are being mistreated, I don't get the hostility.


It's because the AP doesn't actually love and want to spend time with those specific children. If she did, she would have fought for custody back at the beginning. It's only now that she can't have any that she wants the twins so they can fill that void. She wants to have 'generic children'. It sounds like she wants children for a superficial reason rather than she feels an unquestionable love for the twins. I'm pretty sure that if she could have her own kids, she would tell the H to completely give up his custody so the twins wouldn't take time away from her children. And anyway, if anyone should be fighting for custody, it should be the ex-H.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Unfortunately, it is a common occurrence in infidelity situations. Especially in dense "fog" situations. Couple of circumstances where the wayward spouse essentially walks away from their kids on the promise that they will just make more with the new partner. Yeah, that really works. I tend to always ask in these situations, how new the new relationship really is. Time and tide, so to speak. Rarely fails, but within a year, suddenly the wayward wakes the hell up. That stone cold realization that you are deep sixing a part of your life that should have really mattered, usually ends with a tonne of regret. That is when I am asked for a referral to a lawyer that specializes in reopening divorces, going back to court, you name it. One woman's ex wanted her back, and was making her life a financial nightmare. We pointed out that he was not going to achieve a reconciliation by making her life more difficult.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I am not one of those who thinks a WS should lose their kids. Because that is ridiculous. It conflates a marital issue with a parenting one, unless the kids were harmed or something.
> 
> However, this is a man who signed his kids away, basically, and he and his new woman planned to start a brand new family from scratch. Only NOW that new woman can't conceive do the kids have any value to them. I am not saying there cannot be some wiggle room or alterations made. I AM saying that the OW has a lot of gall to come in with demands and threats.


I agree. My problem with the situation is he didn't give a hoot about the kids while divorcing, now since he can't make a new family, he now wants the twins. That is wrong. He should of wanted to be daddy all along.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PigglyWiggly said:


> She's the stepmother and they want to spend more time with the kids. This seems like a win for the kids unless they are being mistreated. Adults are so petty.


And she wasn’t interested in the kids at all until she realized she couldn’t have her own.

You’re right — pretty petty.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

This is why I advocate telling the children the truth without the sexual details.

The OW should have been known by her real name "homewrecker" or "Adultress" not Auntie, Step Mother, Daddys Wife or whatever nice euphemism you can come up with.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> And *she wasn’t interested in the kids at all until she realized she couldn’t have her own*.
> 
> You’re right — pretty petty.


according to one attorney. Who knows what has been said privately between them. What is best for the children?


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> according to one attorney. Who knows what has been said privately between them. What is best for the children?


I'm not seeing anything about the AP that would indicate she would be good mother. She had a multi-year affair with a married man who had twin toddlers. She didn't seem to care about custody until she couldn't have her own kids. She sends intimidating emails to the mom. I don't have much hope that she would be a loving, supportive, and caring mother to the twins, and it doesn't seem like she's a good role model anyway. I know we're getting a 2nd hand version of one side of the story, but that threatening email alone is a pretty good indication of her motives.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

PigglyWiggly said:


> according to one attorney. Who knows what has been said privately between them. What is best for the children?


For the step-ho to accept her place and STFU.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Divorced family dynamics are complicated. And ideally there should be space to change things over time if this was objectively better for the children. Especially if a previously absent parent has realized the error of his/her ways. The increased presence of a genuinely loving, invested parent is very rarely a bad thing. If the father were the one who was really driving this, then I think his ex-wife should try to see beyond her own pain and hurt to that outcome. (This is definitely aspirational though - practically, I have great respect for any betrayed spouse who can actually do this.) 

In this particular situation though, I'm inferring that the cheating ex is a spineless, conflict-avoiding ass. And that his new wife is insanely jealous of any of his (past) happiness that doesn't include her. 

IMO, this isn't really about the children, it's about control.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> And she wasn’t interested in the kids at all until she realized she couldn’t have her own.
> 
> You’re right — pretty petty.


 ^This^
Treating your kids as a status symbol or commodity is definitely petty as well as being a few other things that will just get "*asterisked*" out so I won't bother listing them.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

All the more reason for those of us who have never had reason to divorce, to look after our marriages and our families. These stories sound very sad for all involved, and mostly for the children who are forced to compare their mum/dad with someone else. 

Its the norm now to divorce and then remarry, without real regard for the children, so we need to accept it, but it cannot be easy for such a parent as this mother. How much money one has may also cause them to victimise the other parent even more. 

I don't know what I would do. I think here in UK the child can choose at age nine. What happens if your own child chooses the other parent over you? What if at 15 or the child totally refuses to visit you? I really do not know what I would do.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Mizzbak said:


> Divorced family dynamics are complicated. And ideally there should be space to change things over time if this was objectively better for the children. Especially if a previously absent parent has realized the error of his/her ways. The increased presence of a genuinely loving, invested parent is very rarely a bad thing. If the father were the one who was really driving this, then I think his ex-wife should try to see beyond her own pain and hurt to that outcome. (This is definitely aspirational though - practically, I have great respect for any betrayed spouse who can actually do this.)
> 
> In this particular situation though, I'm inferring that the cheating ex is a spineless, conflict-avoiding ass. And that his new wife is insanely jealous of any of his (past) happiness that doesn't include her.
> 
> IMO, this isn't really about the children, it's about control.



Very well said. I hope that you are wrong and it is about the children but you are probably right. Whatever is actually the best course for the kids, I am sure we all hope that happens.


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## jewels465 (Nov 20, 2014)

For those that are saying for the BS to act like an adult and get along and let the WS and AP have the kids and disrupt holidays...I can see where that would be the grown up thing to do. In this situation, though, what happens if the BS does let them have them on holidays etc. and gets them used to being involved, then the AP all of a sudden could get pregnant (it happens all the time) and then pushes the twins aside like old news. Then, the mom is left to pick up the pieces. 
This situation is different. It’s not like the mom said you can’t see them at all. The fact that they didn’t want the twins until they found out they couldn’t have their own is a big problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

jewels465 said:


> For those that are saying for the BS to act like an adult and get along and let the WS and AP have the kids and disrupt holidays...I can see where that would be the grown up thing to do. In this situation, though, what happens if the BS does let them have them on holidays etc. and gets them used to being involved, then the AP all of a sudden could get pregnant (it happens all the time) and then pushes the twins aside like old news. Then, the mom is left to pick up the pieces.
> This situation is different. It’s not like the mom said you can’t see them at all. The fact that they didn’t want the twins until they found out they couldn’t have their own is a big problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've considered that the wife is pissed that the AP is getting the version of the WS that the wife had begged and pleaded for and has since decided to be very inflexible with visitation and is using the kids as a weapon. My conspiracy continues with the thought that the WS took a limited visitation agreement to make the divorce go quicker/smoother/cheaper while he arrogantly and mistakenly thought he could sweet talk more visitation after his wife's anger over his affair had subsided. I don't buy the story the Wife sold to the lawyer. I don't see step grandparents suddenly deciding to spend a ton of money to see kids they never cared about. Also, we never went to the moon. :grin2:


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The dad abandoned his children when he signed the divorce agreement giving up custody. Can he "unabandon" them by going to court?

Those of you who are lawyers: how do judges react to "I changed my mind, even though we have a signed contract that I willingly signed."


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> This is why I advocate telling the children the truth without the sexual details.
> 
> The OW should have been known by her real name "homewrecker" or "Adultress" not Auntie, Step Mother, Daddys Wife or whatever nice euphemism you can come up with.


I would agree.

And daddy's *new* name should be, "child-deserting selfish piece of ****."


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## inging (Dec 11, 2016)

I haven't posted in a while but this one really ground my gears

This pretty much happened to me and my kids. Mom fell in love with the married AP and off she skipped into her shiny new future without a flying fudge for the kids. Lip service was paid but while they were in lurve they were an inconvenience as she had to fit in around his cheating schedule with his wife.
I told the kids that mom had found a new Boyfriend and his name was X. 

That was all it took for the lies to be seen for what they were. She lied to them about everything. The more she tried to construct the "stepdad" thing and how wonderful it was the more she lied about how ( and when) it all started. She tried to introduce him after 3 months. That did not go well

I was told I was "being petty, "not being mature" or putting the kids first.
This is the same mind messing league as "I love you but am not in love with you." 

I was lectured about truth being subjective. That there were more that one truth. My truth and hers.

People do not get to put their demands first and then everyone fall into line with some fantasy which nobody agreed to. 

The demands that I accept the new reality continued for a long time. She really wanted me to approve of her new lover. Nope with double nope sauce.

Working on the principal that history is written by the victor. I dug in for the long haul . "My Truth" V "Her Truth"

Well slap me sideways if I had to do almost nothing. Just hold the line that truth is based on facts. Regardless of viewpoint.

We now have nothing to do with her. She consistently chose the AP over them for years. She continued to demand that her truth was more than fantasy.The kids really tried to connect with her but nobody can keep hearing complete lies for a large chunk of their lives and shake it off. 


Kids deserve reality. They deserve a parent that will not, under any circumstances, abandon them or take the easy road. 
Don't ever give up on them and allow these absurd entitled people to win an quarter inch of ground!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would be just fine with my ex marrying a eunuch or corpse.

Not my business after we divorce.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Dam... Thats messed up, why people gotta do stupid **** lkke that.... Unreal... One of the things I have learned is that this world always finds a way to right itself, or always end up facing up when it falls....i don't know why but I feel it, I could be wrong.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The AP doesn't love his children. She doesn't even know them!

Here is my take: AP has realized that your client's husband needs children in his life, and although he was willing to give his own up, it was only because he thought he'd have more with her. Now that she knows she can't have children, he is likely to dump her for someone who can have more children with him. 

She figures that if he can reestablish a relationship with his children from his first marriage he might not dump her to make children with someone else.


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