# My husband is very insecure....help please!



## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I have never talked on forums (other than with our fertility issues), but I feel desperate for some input advice, suggestions on how to cope, anything.

Here's the situation.....

First, I would like to start out by saying I have never cheated on my husband and have never even thought about cheating on him. He has ALWAYS been insecure, although it seems to have come in waves over the years. We have been married for ten years now and have been together for around 13 years. It started when he was already involved in his career and I was in college. He pretty much made it to where I could not have any friends at all. (Although he would say that is not what he wanted for me, he treated me in such a way that it was just easier not to leave the house.)

I know my biggest mistake all along has been trying to walk on eggshells to keep him from feeling insecure about our relationship. At times he has seemed to improve, but I honestly wonder now if that is just because he had drifted apart from me and didn't really care that much anymore. Throughtout the past 9 years he has hurt me time and time again with false accusations, but we have gotten over them relatively quickly. He has always been somewhat controlling with the way I dress, etc, but it was to a level where I just put up with it.

Let me stop and say that without this fault he is a wonderful man. Kind, attractive, great personality, fun to be around, a great dad, but then the insecurities kick in and all that is out the window.

He is a very low fighter. He uses low blows to just crush my spirit. I find myself cussing more in our arguments and becomming more hateful out of defense and desperation, but that is really not who I am.

About 4 months ago I found out that I would be having a male co-worker (I am a teacher and softball coach and there was suddenly going to be a male on staff with us two women). I knew that my husband would be insecure about this and was afraid to tell him. I somehow let two weeks go by before he ended up asking "have they found someone to coach with y'all?" At that point, I told him and he reacted exactly the way I knew he would and called me a liar for not having already brought it up.

The last four months have been a living hell. He is so convinced that I "lied" to him about the guy coach and that I must have had something going on with him (I don't even know the guy by the way). After going through horrible daily fights I ended up quitting my softball position (something I was very excited about getting back into). I do have to say that during this time my husband began working on things that he knew he had been neglecting..... showing me more affection, trying to talk through things, etc. We would be closer than ever and then all of the sudden things would spiral out of control again. This was and pretty much still is happening on an almost dialy basis.

I still love him, we have two little kids, I want to go on having a happy life with him. At this point my sense of self is just going down and down. I can't wear too sexy of underwear, have to be very particular about what I pull out of the closet to wear in fear that he will blow up over me looking too good (I do NOT dress sexy, just like to feel decent about myself), and have to think twice about taking a shower (I must be getting clean for someone the next day - even though he gets to take showers every day).

I can't even go in a store to look around unless the kids are with me..... can't do ANYTHING unless the kids are with me. It leaves him being suspicious. I am finally to a point where I can't take it anymore, and no I am not saying I want to leave, but actually saying something HAS to change. I want to be able to feel like a "normal" person again. He also makes fun of this when I say "normal", I don't think I am expecting anything out of the ordinary.

I'm sorry this is so long. I am not wanting you to respond with "leave him". I would really like to know how to handle him treating me this way and what (if anything) I can do to help him make the neccessary changes. I know we could be very happy together, I see it all the time, in between him feeling insecure. Also, he blames me for doing things to make him worry, and does not realize that he is convincing himself of things. Then I get very defensive and upset and he says that must be because I am guilty.

Please help, I feel desperate and have no one to talk to. I really don't have any true friends and I am not willing to talk to family about this, although they would be there for me through anything. Thank you for listening, I just had to get this out, feel like I am drowning in it!


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Oh also feel I should add that we are 14 years apart in age. I know this could have some impact on his insecurities, but you would never know the age difference if you met us.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you two ever discussed marriage counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Yes, at first he was completly against it. Like it would be admitting that there is something wrong with him. Then with the help of his sister, he decided to talk to her therapist. He has talked to her once, as far as I know (via phone), she is in another city. He says he is willing to get help, but actually making that happen is another story. We are also hurting badly financially and she charges $90 an hour. Which I know is worth it if it works, but he knows we can't afford that either.

I think we need to go sit down with someone face to face, but he is really nervous about running into someone he knows, somehow people finding out. I think that is why he liked the idea of the phone consult.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My take... Your husband knows you're not going to do anything about his behavior, so he'd rather not go through the difficult and painful task of facing things. Until that changes, expect his behavior to continue. I'm not saying you should leave him, but I do think you need to impress upon him how serious of an issue this is. And I'm not sure how you can do that without standing up to him and saying "This is what I'm doing. If you don't like it, take a hike". 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> Hi Brit16, I deleted the duplicate of this thread in General Relationships but if you would like me to move it to that forum instead, please let me know.


Yes, if you could that would be great I think it may get more response there. Sorry, new to the forum!


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

PBear said:


> My take... Your husband knows you're not going to do anything about his behavior, so he'd rather not go through the difficult and painful task of facing things. Until that changes, expect his behavior to continue. I'm not saying you should leave him, but I do think you need to impress upon him how serious of an issue this is. And I'm not sure how you can do that without standing up to him and saying "This is what I'm doing. If you don't like it, take a hike".
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the beginning yes, he knew I would not leave. But now with everything that has happened and everything that has been said I think he is afraid that I would leave him, that is why he seems to be working on a lot of things he never cared about in the past. 

The only problem is the main issue that needs to be fixed, he doesn't seem to know how to fix on his own. I do think he wants to, but it is almost like something takes over in him. 

I have had more of the attitude you are mentioning lately, just because I have been soooo frustrated, when I get like this he says I am being my "new ****y self" and that he doesn't want to talk to me when I am being arrogant. I have replied several times that I am just becomming cold and can't take it anymore.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

But he doesn't want to. Otherwise he wouldn't let his "fear" of people seeing him to into a counselor stop the two of you from getting the help you need. 

What happens when you ignore his pouty behavior?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I had a very similiar situation, where my XW was insanely jealous, though i never did anything to warrant it. I too bent to her wishes, thinking that i had to please her, and that she would someday just get over it.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

PBear said:


> But he doesn't want to. Otherwise he wouldn't let his "fear" of people seeing him to into a counselor stop the two of you from getting the help you need.
> 
> What happens when you ignore his pouty behavior?
> 
> ...


I think what happens is when we get "good" again (temporarily) he decides we are ok now, and we don't really need it. Once things fall apart he acknowledges we need help, but then we will "get good again" before any help is seeked out. Not making excuses, totally agree that we need help, just explaining how it spirals back and forth. He has always been worried about what others think. In the same way he is worried about me cheating or leaving him. It would be a really big deal to him if anyone we knew found out.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If he's serious about changing he'll seek counseling. If he doesn't then you will have your answer. What you do with that answer will then be up to you.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

Hubby needs to grow up and not be oversensitive. If he's threatened by your working with another guy, then your husband is very insecure. If you have given him no need to worry then his attitude is just paranoid.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Openminded said:


> If he's serious about changing he'll seek counseling. If he doesn't then you will have your answer. What you do with that answer will then be up to you.


I know.....just don't think he realizes that he has a real problem. I think he thinks a lot of it is justified since I "lied" (was scared to talk) to him. He also downplays the fact that he had this problem all along, that it did not just begin with this incident. This is just the first time this has been a daily ongoing issue.

Everyone is suggesting counseling, which I agree, we need. But does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle these situations when they arise, in the meantime? I also want to stop fighting in front of our little boy, he is a very smart 3 year old and it is starting to affect him. I am just as guilty, if not more than he is in this area. When he starts accusing me of things I would never do, I go crazy, can't keep myself from yelling. It is so hard to hear your character being attacked, especially when you are a very moral, honest person. He some how manages to say all the hurtful low blows in a "normal" tone of voice.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

ankh said:


> Hubby needs to grow up and not be oversensitive. If he's threatened by your working with another guy, then your husband is very insecure. If you have given him no need to worry then his attitude is just paranoid.




I am not even working with the guy anymore, never even started in the first place actually. It was soooo bad I ended up quitting, before season even began. He does work at the same school I do, but it is a big campus I don't even see him. If we would have coached together I would have been seeing him on a daily basis.

I have given him no need to worry. But he finds things and convinces himself that I am giving him reason to worry. For example, you didn't fix your hair Sunday, then you did to go to work Monday...... you must have been doing it for someone. 
NOOOOO... I was just getting ready for work, and was relaxing in my own home on Sunday. And it is not like I don't try to look good for him too, I always have, but of course I have lazy days at home where I don't care, but I think that should be understood.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Hi not to diminish anything you feel I will momentarily be a devils advocate.

Do any of the things make sense when observed from his perspective? Are his observations accurate from the view you allow to be project towards him? 

Or is he a completely irrational person who is manipulating your life in a direction you do not enjoy ? 

I doubt he enjoys being insecure (wherever the insecurities might come from) .

You sound happy aside from his insecurities , I would say you both need outside and impartial perspectives that will allow both of you the freedom to see how your actions impact on each others quality of life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> I know.....just don't think he realizes that he has a real problem. I think he thinks a lot of it is justified since I "lied" (was scared to talk) to him. He also downplays the fact that he had this problem all along, that it did not just begin with this incident. This is just the first time this has been a daily ongoing issue.
> 
> Everyone is suggesting counseling, which I agree, we need. But does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle these situations when they arise, in the meantime? I also want to stop fighting in front of our little boy, he is a very smart 3 year old and it is starting to affect him. I am just as guilty, if not more than he is in this area. When he starts accusing me of things I would never do, I go crazy, can't keep myself from yelling. It is so hard to hear your character being attacked, especially when you are a very moral, honest person. He some how manages to say all the hurtful low blows in a "normal" tone of voice.


Trying to change another adults behavior is an exercise in futility. What you can do is modify your own. Your responses to him need to reflect what you truly feel, and not be reflective of his bullying or imposing fear on you as a means of control. It's working for him, all these years to display anger and manipulate you to do what he wants. YOU have to stop this dynamic. Stand up for yourself... you don't have to do that by arguing with him back and forth, you do this by your actions.

Change how you respond to him. That's all you can do. He may or may not change his ways based on you showing him you aren't afraid of him anymore. How he's going to be from this point is up to him, he's responsible for his own emotions.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

soulseer said:


> Hi not to diminish anything you feel I will momentarily be a devils advocate.
> 
> Do any of the things make sense when observed from his perspective? Are his observations accurate from the view you allow to be project towards him?
> 
> ...


I don't mind you being devil's advocate at all. I think he would say that he is justified, but he does know that he is insecure. You're right that I could be very happy with him without these issues, but right now these issues are dominating our lives! It is constant. 

I really don't see how most of his thoughts could be considered rational. For example, we finally had a night out without the kids and decided to do a little Christmas shopping and some shopping for ourselves. We were having a good evening, while in the store, HE wondered off while I was looking at womens clothing (no big deal - in fact I was very much enjoying the fact that he was not rushing me like usual). 

Well, apparently he looked for me and could not find me. Once I got all the items I wanted to try on I headed to the dressing room, but first made one big round around the store with the intentions of letting him know that I was going to try some things on. 

When I didn't find him I just went on to the dressing room. Not one minute after I get to the dressing room I hear him call my name and can tell he is pissed off. When I come out, he is fuming.....long story short he implied I was screwing someone in the dressing room!!! How in the world could this be justified or rational????


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I do see what you mean. No alcohol even to cloud his judgement?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Trying to change another adults behavior is an exercise in futility. What you can do is modify your own. Your responses to him need to reflect what you truly feel, and not be reflective of his bullying or imposing fear on you as a means of control. It's working for him, all these years to display anger and manipulate you to do what he wants. YOU have to stop this dynamic. Stand up for yourself... you don't have to do that by arguing with him back and forth, you do this by your actions.
> 
> Change how you respond to him. That's all you can do. He may or may not change his ways based on you showing him you aren't afraid of him anymore. How he's going to be from this point is up to him, he's responsible for his own emotions.


I think you are very right in this response. I have been "standing up for myself" more lately in this sense. I am not a passive person at all, have a lot of confidence in all areas of life, I have only walked on eggshells for sooo long to "keep the peace". Now when I don't do this, he thinks I must not love him anymore and it just reaffirms the things he thinks about me, and he now says I am being selfish for no longer wanting to "walk on eggshells". I DO care very much about his feelings, I really do feel bad that he is having to feel these ways about me, because I know it hurts him, but I know I am just making the problem worse.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

soulseer said:


> I do see what you mean. No alcohol even to cloud his judgement?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He does drink on a nightly basis, which has been a source of arguments for us as well. But it is typically two glasses of whisky, not sure if that is something I should be concerned with. I don't like it, but he by no means is a drunk.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I would suspect he was cheating based on what you've said about him.

That thought aside, you can't allow his irrational accusations tilt you one way or another. YOU know the truth. You can't convince him one way or the other because he chooses to believe otherwise. You aren't being selfish, you're being healthy and healthy minded people are self confident. You have not violated his trust, he can believe the opposite but that doesn't make it true.

He has to get a grip. The way to help him do this is to consistently remind him that his negative behavior is pushing you away. Ask him if this is what he wants because it is not the life you want to live with him. Either he does something about it, or there will be consequences.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> I would suspect he was cheating based on what you've said about him.
> 
> That thought aside, you can't allow his irrational accusations tilt you one way or another. YOU know the truth. You can't convince him one way or the other because he chooses to believe otherwise. You aren't being selfish, you're being healthy and healthy minded people are self confident. You have not violated his trust, he can believe the opposite but that doesn't make it true.
> 
> He has to get a grip. The way to help him do this is to consistently remind him that his negative behavior is pushing you away. Ask him if this is what he wants because it is not the life you want to live with him. Either he does something about it, or there will be consequences.


What would make you assume he is cheating??? I do not believe he is cheating, and I don't think I am just being naive here. We spend all of our time together once he gets home, and there is no reason for me to believe he is cheating. I think he is just extremely insecure, I just don't understand why or how to get past it and be the happy couple I know we could be.

I have been telling him that when he hurts me so badly with the accusations and mean words, it is pushing me farther and farther away and he responds by saying that I am making him worry even more by saying that.


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> Everyone is suggesting counseling, which I agree, we need. But does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle these situations when they arise, in the meantime?


My husband and I use this technique called "nonviolent communication." Instead of making accusations and judgements, the idea is to focus on needs and feelings. When others are being judgmental and accusing, you try to look behind that and see what they're really feeling, and how their needs are not being met.

A big part of the technique consists of being accountable for our own emotions. People can't "make" us feel anything. Our feelings are the result of our own internal dialogues, and of whether or not our needs are being met.

I think you see this in your own marriage, because no matter how hard you try, no matter what you do, it's never enough to make him feel secure. That's because making him feel secure is a power you do not have, only he has that power.

I used the audiobooks to get introduced, and the training course to really get a good understanding. It completely changed the way my husband and I relate to one another. Instead of trying to win arguments, we started connecting so that both of our needs were met. It changed our whole marriage, almost overnight.



Brit16 said:


> I am not even working with the guy anymore, never even started in the first place actually. It was soooo bad I ended up quitting, before season even began.


This type of behaviour is really destructive. You have a need for autonomy and self-expression, and when he tells you what to wear, who to have for friends, whether or not to go out, it doesn't meet those needs.

The thing to realize is that no matter how much you change your behaviour in terms of coddling his insecurity, it won't help. This is because the problem is not with how you're acting, what you wear, how you fix your hair, when you shower... it's 100% about his own insecurity and his own internal dialogue. Until he learns to overcome that, nothing will improve permanently.



A Bit Much said:


> I would suspect he was cheating based on what you've said about him.


That could very well be. The one and only time my H accused me of lying and being deceitful, it was because I had caught him in a lie, and instead of admitting it right away, he deflected and accused me of being untrustworthy. The next morning, he told me the truth and apologized for accusing me of lying.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> What would make you assume he is cheating??? I do not believe he is cheating, and I don't think I am just being naive here. We spend all of our time together once he gets home, and there is no reason for me to believe he is cheating. I think he is just extremely insecure, I just don't understand why or how to get past it and be the happy couple I know we could be.
> 
> I have been telling him that when he hurts me so badly with the accusations and mean words, it is pushing me farther and farther away and he responds by saying that I am making him worry even more by saying that.


In my experience, people that constantly accuse their partner of messing around are in fact messing around themselves. It's a form of projection.

Also, you're not with him all day. Like I said, it's been my experience... people find time to do all kinds of things if they really want to.

You should tell him that he SHOULD worry when you tell him you're being pushed away. IF his goal is to alienate you, then he's doing a great job. Either check himself and pull it together or you will check OUT of this relationship. It is NOT a healthy way to live.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> * It's working for him, all these years to display anger and manipulate you to do what he wants. YOU have to stop this dynamic. Stand up for yourself... you don't have to do that by arguing with him back and forth, you do this by your actions.*


:iagree: Quoted for truth.
It's all about power and control.

Here's a link to another thread of a poster going through a problem similar in root cause,to yours.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/117433-silent-treatment.html

Maybe you can have a look .


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> In my experience, people that constantly accuse their partner of messing around are in fact messing around themselves. It's a form of projection. Also, you're not with him all day. Like I said, it's been my experience... people find time to do all kinds of things if they really want to.


I do understand that this is often true, but I honestly don't believe it is the case here. And I know that if he wanted to have an affair, he could make it happen, I just don't think he is. I think he is a good guy, with a real problem of trust and insecurity. Sometimes I don't wonder if it is our age difference that is causing the problem. As we are getting older, him thinking I will find someone younger. Not sure if this is a common issue with couples that have a large age difference but I wouldn't doubt it at this point.





A Bit Much said:


> You should tell him that he SHOULD worry when you tell him you're being pushed away. IF his goal is to alienate you, then he's doing a great job. Either check himself and pull it together or you will check OUT of this relationship. It is NOT a healthy way to live.


I agree that it is not a healthy way to live, but I do NOT want to check out...... I want him to get over his issues, and let us lead the life I know we both really want.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Sabariel said:


> My husband and I use this technique called "nonviolent communication." Instead of making accusations and judgements, the idea is to focus on needs and feelings. When others are being judgmental and accusing, you try to look behind that and see what they're really feeling, and how their needs are not being met.
> 
> A big part of the technique consists of being accountable for our own emotions. People can't "make" us feel anything. Our feelings are the result of our own internal dialogues, and of whether or not our needs are being met.
> 
> ...


You are dead on with everything! Thank you for the advice, I know we have got to learn how to communicate better, and we have been working on it.....sometimes successfully and sometimes not. If his insecurities are due to me not meeting his needs, I don't understand what those needs are.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

You're in a tough spot. Bottom line, he's not going to change unless there is a strong motivation to change. And even then it may only temporary.

Unless you say, "I've had it. You go to counselling and figure your stuff or I'm leaving," I don't see an scenario where he changes. Even then, you'd need to maintain that willingness to leave to sustain the change. 

It's a type of abuse. So the same rules abused wife rules apply.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

seeking sanity said:


> You're in a tough spot. Bottom line, he's not going to change unless there is a strong motivation to change. And even then it may only temporary.
> 
> Unless you say, "I've had it. You go to counselling and figure your stuff or I'm leaving," I don't see an scenario where he changes. Even then, you'd need to maintain that willingness to leave to sustain the change.
> 
> It's a type of abuse. So the same rules abused wife rules apply.


I have started saying that to him lately. I never did in the past, but I just couldn't handle it anymore. I think he kind of takes me seriously, but at the same time he knows I don't want to leave, and that I want our boys to grow up in a happy family with a good marriage to look up to. I do feel like I am being mentally abused at times. When I said this to him it hurt him really badly (and I really don't think he believed it), he honestly doesn't want to hurt me, but he won't stop it either.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> I do understand that this is often true, but I honestly don't believe it is the case here. And I know that if he wanted to have an affair, he could make it happen, I just don't think he is. I think he is a good guy, with a real problem of trust and insecurity. Sometimes I don't wonder if it is our age difference that is causing the problem. As we are getting older, him thinking I will find someone younger. Not sure if this is a common issue with couples that have a large age difference but I wouldn't doubt it at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can wish and want all you like, but it won't change your reality. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

PBear said:


> You can wish and want all you like, but it won't change your reality.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right it won't, but what can????


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for discussing this with me, it is so nice just to be able to talk about it.

I do realize that we / he needs help...... what would be best for us to get help together or for him to get help for his issues alone? Right now he is supposedly going to be talking to the counselor over the phone, but I think it will just be him. What is the most effective?


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

for counseling to really be effective in my opinion it needs to be both of you together and I delete needs to be you there with the counselor not over the phone. but your mileage may vary


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I agree that it is not a healthy way to live, but I do NOT want to check out...... I want him to get over his issues, and let us lead the life I know we both really want.


What you want to happen and what is happening are like worlds apart. 

Nothing changes if nothing changes. This includes how YOU deal with him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You can't fix him. He has to do that work. If he's not willing to do that work, then what?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> You're right it won't, but what can????


You, you can change. You can stop accepting this crap from him. 

You don't have to fight. You just tell him no, that's unacceptable and refuse to get into a shouting match. Just leave it. Take your kids out for a walk when he gets all blustery.

And then you don't let up - you stay firm on everything you want to do like a normal person. And every time he screams, you remind him this is why you two need marital counseling and you won't discuss this with him until that happens.

Yes, he needs an individual counselor, too, but I suspect he'll only tell partial truths about his behavior, will sugar coat, and will actually blame you for daring to have a job where men are present and for daring to leave the house without your kids and for daring to live a normal life where you get to choose your own underwear, for pete's sake.

The only thing you have control over is YOU and YOUR choices and behavior. So start making some changes. Dont' be such a doormat about this or you will live the rest of your life as a prisoner to his insanity.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> You're right it won't, but what can????


Figuring out what your boundaries are, laying them out, and sticking with them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> In my experience, people that constantly accuse their partner of messing around are in fact messing around themselves. It's a form of projection.
> 
> Also, you're not with him all day. Like I said, it's been my experience... people find time to do all kinds of things if they really want to.
> 
> You should tell him that he SHOULD worry when you tell him you're being pushed away. IF his goal is to alienate you, then he's doing a great job. Either check himself and pull it together or you will check OUT of this relationship. It is NOT a healthy way to live.


Agree with ABM - that might be a case...

When I was 23, I had a friend at work who were 36 at that time -married with 2 kids, very pretty lady and very smart.
She walked on eggshells as her husband was absolute crazy controlling her every step and every breath. He drove her to work and picked he up from work. He picked up her clothes, he decided what she would do etc.

Anyway, it turned out he had multiple affairs - most during his business trips...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> I have started saying that to him lately. I never did in the past, but I just couldn't handle it anymore. I think he kind of takes me seriously, but at the same time he knows I don't want to leave, and that* I want our boys to grow up in a happy family with a good marriage to look up to.* I do feel like I am being mentally abused at times. When I said this to him it hurt him really badly (and I really don't think he believed it), he honestly doesn't want to hurt me, but he won't stop it either.


Staying together does NOT mean your boys will be growing up in a happy family with a good marriage to look up to. Quite the opposite. They are learning it's ok to be controlling and irrationally jealous and abusive toward a woman/wife, and that women are just supposed to take it and take it and take it no matter how they feel or think, if they're allowed to think for themselves at all. And they are seeing a seriously troubled marriage as a model.

Is that what you want your boys to see? Just because you don't get divorced doesn't mean your boys are learning anything about a what a healthy marriage looks like.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

As other posters have said, you can react differently. You can change your behavior, not his. The next time you are accused, say "no, that's not true, but you can believe what you want". Then let that be the end of your part of the discussion. And that's that. I'll bet that over time, he will change. On some level, these irrational accusations and ensuing fights provide an outlet for his problems. You can no longer be that outlet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Brit16 said:


> Yes, at first he was completly against it. Like it would be admitting that there is something wrong with him. Then with the help of his sister, he decided to talk to her therapist. He has talked to her once, as far as I know (via phone)


I think it would be much more useful at this point for you both to go to marriage counseling together. Explain it this way - it's not about "fixing" him or you. It's more about finding strategies to resolve your arguments without horrible arguments.

In the meantime, one way to keep them from escalating is to avoid the words "always" or "never" during your arguments. Don't bring up other arguments, and stick to the subject at hand. 

Also, when he accuses you of cheating, have you pointed out to him, hey, "_you've been accusing me of cheating for nine years and you have never been right yet. Don't you think that chances are very good that you are wrong again now??_" 



Brit16 said:


> I know.....just don't think he realizes that he has a real problem. I think he thinks a lot of it is justified since I "lied" (was scared to talk) to him.


There was another thread here recently, where a woman's ex-boyfriend asked her do some graphic work on his car. They never got around to actually scheduling a time and she never did the work, and so she never told her husband. Nevertheless, her husband found out about it and blew up. The funny thing is, many people here on TAM accused her of "lying" to her husband about it.

Some people think "lying" includes leaving out any information that would upset your spouse (I disagree). Regardless, one way to point out the ridiculousness of your husband's position is to simply make him define it. Ask him what are the rules now exactly? So if I'm working anywhere and they hire a male worker, I need to tell you about it? Making him actually say that out loud might make him realize how silly it is. Also, fair is fair. *You can impose the same restriction on him*. If his company hires a female employee, he needs to tell you immediately, and he's not allowed to be friendly to her in any way at work. Do you think he could live with that restriction?

You say that otherwise he is a caring person. But caring or not, the end result is that he has caused you to isolate yourself, so the bottom line isn't much different than if he was always abusive.

One word about his insecurity. I used to be very jealous too, and it also stemmed from insecurity. Do you ever pay him compliments? Show affection? Boosting his confidence might go a long way toward solving this problem. It also wouldn't hurt to ask him to lay off the whisky for awhile, and see how that goes. It's possible he's drinking a lot more than you think.

My final recommendation is that you go back to living your life, including softball, or whatever. If he throws a fit, you will have to let him throw a fit. You can't "fix" everything about him. If he makes life unbearable, then move out for awhile. Divorce or put up with his behavior aren't your only options here. The point is you have a LOT of options, from marriage counseling, to talking things out, to moving out if you have to.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I think it would be much more useful at this point for you both to go to marriage counseling together. Explain it this way - it's not about "fixing" him or you. It's more about finding strategies to resolve your arguments without horrible arguments.
> 
> In the meantime, one way to keep them from escalating is to avoid the words "always" or "never" during your arguments. Don't bring up other arguments, and stick to the subject at hand.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the thoughtful response here. Yes, I do point out to him that he has never been right before, and once things are calmed down a bit, he will say "I know you haven't cheated on me, I am just scared of getting hurt......" and then points out how things I do MAKE him feel this way, which I do NOT believe is true at all. I don't flirt with people, I don't dress sexy, nothing that I would say would actually justify him feeling this way.

I agree that we both need the counseling together. Are there many counselors that take insurance? Money is a real issue at this point.

As for the male co-worker thing, we are both high school teachers (we used to teach at the same school - now we teach at different schools, which is making this even harder, because he can't actually see that I am NOT doing anything wrong), so there are men and women teachers around both of us. But almost all your time is spent with teenagers. 

The difference with the situation that arose was that it would have been just three of us coaching together hours at a time, and going to games together, taking the kids to eat after games, etc. To me, I could understand him needing some re-assurance at times, but I still think he should have been able to trust me. As for just "going back to softball" - it was a job, not just a hobby - I quit, they hired someone else, so I can't go back at this point. And I don't want to hold him to the standards he holds me, to me that would be like stooping to his level, and that is not who I am. I do think that I should have told him right away, but it is hard to bring something up that you KNOW will lead to a huge fight. But I do not think that makes me a liar.

I do pay him compliments, and give him a lot of affection. Our sex life is great and we have a lot in common. I honestly believe if he would fix this, we would have an above average marriage. As for the whiskey, I do wish he would stop, but I don't believe that he is drinking more than I know. He doesn't have much free time at all between teaching and coaching, and he would never drink and go to his job, he wouldn't jeopardize his teaching career like that.

Thanks again for the good advice and thoughtful post.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Omego said:


> As other posters have said, you can react differently. You can change your behavior, not his. The next time you are accused, say "no, that's not true, but you can believe what you want". Then let that be the end of your part of the discussion. And that's that. I'll bet that over time, he will change. On some level, these irrational accusations and ensuing fights provide an outlet for his problems. You can no longer be that outlet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is actually what I have been trying to do lately. Although I do admit that I start out trying to be strong like this and then I end up getting upset after he implies horrible things about me.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

norajane said:


> Staying together does NOT mean your boys will be growing up in a happy family with a good marriage to look up to. Quite the opposite. They are learning it's ok to be controlling and irrationally jealous and abusive toward a woman/wife, and that women are just supposed to take it and take it and take it no matter how they feel or think, if they're allowed to think for themselves at all. And they are seeing a seriously troubled marriage as a model.
> 
> Is that what you want your boys to see? Just because you don't get divorced doesn't mean your boys are learning anything about a what a healthy marriage looks like.


I know this....and totally agree. I do not want our boys growing up with this mindset, or in an unhealthy environment. What I DO want is for us to somehow get through this and for us to have the good marriage that I know we can have, because we do at times. And I think we could be a good example for them, not in the place we are now, but where I think we could be.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

norajane said:


> You, you can change. You can stop accepting this crap from him.
> 
> You don't have to fight. You just tell him no, that's unacceptable and refuse to get into a shouting match. Just leave it. Take your kids out for a walk when he gets all blustery.
> 
> ...


Thank you ---- these are the things that I KNOW I need to be doing, but have been too emotional to stick with. It is good to hear it from everyone to re-assure me this is what I need to be doing. Y'all are all right that I can only control myself and that I have not been reacting the right way all along. The sad part is that I knew how I should be handling it all along, but I just didn't want to fight, so I took the "easy" (not so easy) way out.

As for the "sugar coating" the counselor, I'm not so sure that this is true. Some of his family members know about the situation and when he has talked to them he does emphasize that I hurt him by "lying" to him, but otherwise, he takes alot of the responsibility and admits he doesn't understand why he is so insecure with me. He is actually a lot nicer "about me" to others, than he is "to me" when these things come up. Thanks again!


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Any other words of wisdom? Thanks again everyone!


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

*Re: Re: My husband is very insecure....help please!*



Brit16 said:


> This is actually what I have been trying to do lately. Although I do admit that I start out trying to be strong like this and then I end up getting upset after he implies horrible things about me.


To survive your marriage or any relationship anywhere you have to get thicker skin, to become impervious to hurtful things that people might say and not let them bother you


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

ankh said:


> To survive your marriage or any relationship anywhere you have to get thicker skin, to become impervious to hurtful things that people might say and not let them bother you


I have very thick skin to everyone else, have never had a problem standing up to people or speaking up for what I believe. HE is the only one that can make me feel this way, because I do love him, and know what we could / should have together. And it hurts to hear these things coming from the person who should treat you better than anyone else.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean when you say he makes you feel this way. But in reality you allow him to make you feel that way. is clear that you love him and it hurts when someone close to you says hurtful things. when someone does that you have two choices one, you can buy it internalize it and take it on and let it affect you or two, you can acknowledge that they are acting juvenile and feel pity or sympathy for them but realize that it's them that has the problem not you. don't buy into what he is saying. this is not easy but it is possible.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Brit16 said:


> I know this....and totally agree. I do not want our boys growing up with this mindset, or in an unhealthy environment.


This reminds me of another point I wanted to make. 

Insecurity is a disease that runs in multiple directions. It's not just about being jealous of you. There will be ramifications besides just the way your boys see you two argue. Your sons will trigger his anger and insecurity too. 

What happens when your sons are older and talk back to him? Or if they clearly show a preference for their mother over their father? What happens if one is a rebellious teen and tells him he hates him?

I don't think the results will be pretty. I doubt your sons will be as willing to bend to keep the peace as you have been.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> I have very thick skin to everyone else, have never had a problem standing up to people or speaking up for what I believe. HE is the only one that can make me feel this way, because I do love him, and know what we could / should have together. And it hurts to hear these things coming from the person who should treat you better than anyone else.


You have to stand up to bullies or they will continue to bully you. A bully makes himself feel better about himself by making someone else feel bad. Bullies feel bigger by making you feel small.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Theseus said:


> This reminds me of another point I wanted to make.
> 
> Insecurity is a disease that runs in multiple directions. It's not just about being jealous of you. There will be ramifications besides just the way your boys see you two argue. Your sons will trigger his anger and insecurity too.
> 
> ...


I get exactly what you are saying. I think you are assuming that he is insecure in all aspects of life, and I really don't think that is true. He is actually very high energy, a lot of confidence, a people person, etc...... it is just with our relationship that he is soooo insecure. 

Like right now, sometimes our 3 year only wants me (sometimes he only wants him as well), and it does not seem to bother him at all. 

There has been a couple times where my son has said something like "I don't like you..." (just being stubborn, not wanting to follow daddy's instructions or trying to get out of something he did) and my husband has said something childish back. I have gotten on to him about this, but never really linked it to the issues we have.

He used to have a temper, get loud easily, etc (not violent at all though), many years ago. But he has really changed that a lot through the years. Even the things we are going through now, I think he remains calmer than I do. He says really hurtful things, low blows, but he doesn't yell them, if that makes sense.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> He says really hurtful things, low blows, but he doesn't yell them, if that makes sense.


A really 'good' guy doesn't do this. He's disrespectful and angry under the surface of his nice guy routine. That kind of language and tone doesn't come from just anywhere. And if it's focused primarily on you, well I certainly wouldn't be okay and making any peace with that. There's some underlying reason it's focused only on you.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> A really 'good' guy doesn't do this. He's disrespectful and angry under the surface of his nice guy routine. That kind of language and tone doesn't come from just anywhere. And if it's focused primarily on you, well I certainly wouldn't be okay and making any peace with that. There's some underlying reason it's focused only on you.


I am not saying at all that it is ok, just because he is not raising his voice. Just saying that he has changed the way he conducts himself during an argument at this point vs when we were first married. Also, I am not sure that it is only focused on me..... he says he has always been shy around girls (growing up - even though he was very outgoing), he only had two or three real relationships before me, and he was early 30's when we married. So, I think it may be that he would be insecure with any woman that he was in a relationship with. And I think it only makes it worse that I am younger, and some of his coach friends or even high school students will comment about me, but he is attractive (and outgoing)too, and I don't feel this way.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> I am not saying at all that it is ok, just because he is not raising his voice. Just saying that he has changed the way he conducts himself during an argument at this point vs when we were first married. Also, I am not sure that it is only focused on me..... he says he has always been shy around girls (growing up - even though he was very outgoing), he only had two or three real relationships before me, and he was early 30's when we married. So, I think it may be that he would be insecure with any woman that he was in a relationship with. And I think it only makes it worse that I am younger, and some of his coach friends or even high school students will comment about me, but he is attractive (and outgoing)too, and I don't feel this way.


You don't say it's okay with your mouth. You say it's okay by how you respond to him. He has been getting away with acting like a jerk for a long time because of your 'peace' keeping efforts.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

And where do you think the hurtful language he directs at you comes from? Why is he so mean?


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

Here's a link with 8 great ideas... 8 Attitudes of Successful People | yoursuccesshorizons
Take it for what it's worth.


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> If his insecurities are due to me not meeting his needs, I don't understand what those needs are.


Two things:

1. Meeting his needs is not your responsibility. It is your choice, and one that should be viewed as such. When one person chooses to meet the needs of another person, it is a gift. As with all gifts, it's appropriate to show gratitude when they are received, not to be mad when they aren't.

2. It is his responsibility to communicate his needs to you and offer the opportunity for you to meet his needs. It's his responsibility to be clear, concise, and reasonable in his requests.



Brit16 said:


> I do realize that we / he needs help...... what would be best for us to get help together or for him to get help for his issues alone? Right now he is supposedly going to be talking to the counselor over the phone, but I think it will just be him. What is the most effective?


In person. Body language is a major component of how humans communicate. For example, it's much harder to get away with lying to a counsellor in person.



Theseus said:


> One word about his insecurity. I used to be very jealous too, and it also stemmed from insecurity. Do you ever pay him compliments? Show affection?


In my experience, insecurity comes from within and must be dismissed from within. When an insecure person hears a compliment, they are often suspicious of its sincerity. They believe they're being buttered up or flattered in order to get something out of them.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Oh goodness, reminds me of my old boyfriend many years ago. He was 14 years older than me and terribly insecure. The man haunted me, asking me questions constantly, it drove me nuts!

My question here is how much are you willing to sacrifice yourself for his comfort? If you have done nothing wrong there is no reason to question. 

What I also found out with this man was that as much as he wanted to control me and suspected me, he actually was the one seeking other women. So perhaps that gives you some enlight to the thinking?


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

In my opinion.. you have NO respect for yourself. Sorry to have to be the one to say it but shoulda, coulda, woulda. If your team mate was better, we woulda won the game. If your dad was never late, we coulda won the money for getting there early. Stop living in a fantasy world. 

Jealousy issues take years to go away and your marriage has so much baggage now due to him AND YOU BOTH being insecure. It's like any other addictive drug, there will always be triggers. ALWAYS. You live in a freakin bubble because you coulda have a great marriage if it wasn't for his insecurities. Don't you realize that your life can end tomorrow? Is this how you want to go out? Being absolutely miserable to the point were you are someone's puppet? He could go days and days after seeking help; but the minute a threatening guy says hi.. arguments, arguments, arguments. 

I knew a woman that could not sit inside a restaurant where she would be facing the entrance door because her husband didn't want her 'checking out' guys walking in. Guess what? Coulda, woulda, shoulda. She finally left him and she is happier than ever.

You can't shower because then you are looking too clean for other guys? Wowwwww. Your H is BEYOND a little bit of help. He has ISSUES.. severe. Maybe that is why he drinks two glasses of whiskey every night. He's become detached previously. But yet you still love the guy because there is no one else?

At this point.. you either walk and be happy or suck it up and be someone's pet when he decides to act like an insane person. It's rather sad that you have it justified in your head that this is a great guy minus his insecurities. Millions of women would run from the kind of guy you are with. My girl and previous girls would have dropped me in a second. The severity of his insecurities should be a deal breaker in any relationship.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

It's all about control. Your husband would most definitely disagree with that. Usually the person who does the controlling will say they are not doing this. If you saw these traits when dating you should have run for the hills.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> I agree that we both need the counseling together.


Brit, couples counseling would be useful if you both needed to learn communication skills. Yet, as Richie indicates, MC likely will be a total waste of time if your H's issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. Significantly, you are describing several of the defining traits of PPD (Paranoid Personality Disorder). To be diagnosed as having full-blown PPD, the APA's diagnostic manual requires that 4 of the following 7 traits be exhibited at a strong and persistent level. I have bolded the four traits that seem to match most closely with your description:


*Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner.*
*Suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her.*
Is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates.
Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her.
*Reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events. *
*Persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights.*
Perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack.
Of course, you cannot determine whether your H's PPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown PPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for PPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as irrational jealousy and verbal abuse. I therefore suggest you read about PPD traits to see if most sound very familiar.

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the PPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why PPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H has PPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether he has most PPD traits at a moderate to strong level. Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.


> You are assuming that he is insecure in all aspects of life, and I really don't think that is true. He is actually very high energy, a lot of confidence, a people person, etc...... it is just with our relationship that he is soooo insecure.


High functioning PPDers (i.e., those having strong PPD traits) generally interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. The reason is that none of those folks are close enough to him to trigger his fears and paranoia.


> Throughout the past 9 years he has hurt me time and time again with false accusations....


If your H has moderate to strong traits of PPD, the condition likely was fully formed in early childhood but the traits typically do not manifest strongly until the teens. If he is a high functioning PPDer, you would not have seen the traits while you were only a casual friend. And, when you both became infatuated with each other, you still would not have seen the traits because his infatuation would have convinced him that you are the perfect woman. It is only after about six months into the courtship, then, that the traits likely would have started showing themselves -- when his infatuation started to evaporate.


> I find myself cussing more in our arguments and becoming more hateful out of defense and desperation, but that is really not who I am.


If your H has a personality disorder, this process of "becoming more hateful" is called "picking up fleas." It is nearly impossible to live with a man having strong PPD traits without picking up some of the dysfunctional behaviors yourself.


> He takes a lot of the responsibility and admits he doesn't understand why he is so insecure with me. He is actually a lot nicer "about me" to others, than he is "to me" when these things come up.


This willingness to admit to others that he has a problem is a _very good sign_. It indicates that he may have the self awareness required to do very well in therapy. Generally, folks suffering from strong PPD traits do not do well in therapy because they lack the self awareness to confront their own issues and learn how to manage them.


> He blames me for doing things to make him worry, and does not realize that he is convincing himself of things.


If he actually does have strong PPD traits, the "convincing" does not occur at his conscious level. Rather, it occurs subconsciously. This means that his conscious mind really does believe that the false projections created by his unconscious are absolutely true. This also means that he is not fabricating these outrageous allegations to hurt you. Instead, he feels so strongly that they MUST be true that his conscious mind does its best to rationalize them. The result, of course, is that he ends up making outrageous allegations having nothing to do with reality.


> I know my biggest mistake all along has been trying to *walk on eggshells* to keep him from feeling insecure about our relationship.


Interestingly, the best-selling book on BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ I therefore suspected, at the beginning of your thread, that you may be describing BPD traits. 

Yet, if that were true, you likely would have said something about your H exhibiting a strong fear of abandonment, rages, and splitting. But you describe none of those. Although you do describe him as being paranoid about your dressing and showering activities, you do not say anything about him being fearful you are actually going to up and leave him. And, instead of describing rages, you say he is verbally abusive but generally does so without raising his voice. As to splitting, you do not seem to describe him as an unstable man who flips back and forth between adoring you and devaluing you.

If I am mistaken about this and you actually are seeing such behaviors, I would be glad to discuss BPD traits with you. At this point, however, I don't see you describing traits of strong emotional instability.


> Then with the help of his sister, he decided to talk to her therapist. He has talked to her once.


If your H really does have strong traits of PPD, the conventional "talk therapy" likely will not work. Nor will couples counseling, as I noted earlier. Instead, what would be needed is for him to see a good clinical psychologist who is able to teach him specific skills for dealing with the paranoid thoughts. 

That is, he would need to retrain his mind to think in certain ways. Until that is done, learning better communication skills -- or learning that he experienced a trauma in childhood -- likely won't make a dent in his behavior. Yet, if he is unwilling to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference, I suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and the children are dealing with. Take care, Brit.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> What would make you assume he is cheating???


That's just the rote, "go-to" response around here.

Tell him you are falling out of love with him because of this. He is not a man you can love with this controlling behavior. "I'm afraid it's too late to fix it. I tried to have you get help, but sadly, you refused. I'm going to sleep in the guest room until I figure out what to do. Sorry it had to end this way".

He knows what it is you don't like, right? You have told him until you are "blue in the face", right? No changes yet, right? Thinking he's lost you will get his attention. Then give him ZERO REASON to think you maybe coming back. He should change. If he doesn't...?

Then you have to leave anyhow. You get one shot at life. Don't waste it like this. Find happiness for yourself.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> Unless you say, "I've had it. You go to counselling and figure your stuff or I'm leaving,"


"saying" hasn't helped her. Time to "do". He's not changing with out a HARD kick to the gut.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

One last point. He knows what it is that is bothering you. You've "told him" right? But he has NO IDEA it has gotten this bad. I can guarantee it. Time to shatter his world. That will get him interested in getting help. I can guarantee that as well. It's the only way. Sorry.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

wise said:


> In my opinion.. you have NO respect for yourself. Sorry to have to be the one to say it but shoulda, coulda, woulda. If your team mate was better, we woulda won the game. If your dad was never late, we coulda won the money for getting there early. Stop living in a fantasy world. .


I have no problem with you being honest about what you think, but I DO respect myself. But I have let him hurt me throughout the years in ways that I shouldn't have.



wise said:


> Jealousy issues take years to go away and your marriage has so much baggage now due to him AND YOU BOTH being insecure. It's like any other addictive drug, there will always be triggers. ALWAYS. You live in a freakin bubble because you coulda have a great marriage if it wasn't for his insecurities. Don't you realize that your life can end tomorrow? Is this how you want to go out? Being absolutely miserable to the point were you are someone's puppet? He could go days and days after seeking help; but the minute a threatening guy says hi.. arguments, arguments, arguments.


I am NOT insecure, honestly am not at all. I am intellegent, hard working, still in decent shape (after two kids), and I know I could have plenty of other guys. But I don't want other guys. I want a happy marriage with my husband. I agree with you that there will likely always be triggers. I could handle the insecurities coming up here and there if we were happy in between. It is the constant insecurity that we have been facing lately that I can NOT handle. People seem so quick to just throw away a marriage. I am not on here asking how to get out. Anyone could easily do that. I am on here asking for help with our problems. Help with how I should handle him and with what is going to help him get through this, so we can MOVE ON with our lives.




wise said:


> You can't shower because then you are looking too clean for other guys? Wowwwww. Your H is BEYOND a little bit of help. He has ISSUES.. severe. Maybe that is why he drinks two glasses of whiskey every night. He's become detached previously. But yet you still love the guy because there is no one else?


I agree that the shower thing is crazy and I think he even knows how unrealistic this is. It wasn't about "looking too clean" it was about him thinking I was getting clean to have sex with someone.....something I would never do. 

And NO I don't love him because there is no one else. I would be perfectly capable of finding someone else, IF that was what I wanted, it is NOT what I want. I love him because I love him, because we have fun together, because we have common interest, becasue I am attracted to him, because we have experienced many things in life together, etc.



wise said:


> At this point.. you either walk and be happy or suck it up and be someone's pet when he decides to act like an insane person. It's rather sad that you have it justified in your head that this is a great guy minus his insecurities. Millions of women would run from the kind of guy you are with. My girl and previous girls would have dropped me in a second. The severity of his insecurities should be a deal breaker in any relationship.


I am by no means justifying the negative qualities he has.....they are wrong and unfair to me, and I know I do NOT deserve the treatment I am getting. I am saying that everything else about him is good, loving, fun, etc. You say the girls would have dropped you in a second, that is assuming he treated me like this from day one, of course he didn't. The first year we were together I didn't see any of these behaviors. 

The next year we were in different cities and the insecurities began coming out. At that point I really believed he was only insecure because we were "long distance", and we were planning on getting married soon. (That would "fix" the long distance problem and therefor "fix" the issue in my mind.)

Once we got married the insecurities did NOT go away, but they were mixed in amongst a lot of happy times and I guess I just tried to put up with them. The good outweighed the bad is the best way to put it.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Brit, couples counseling would be useful if you both needed to learn communication skills. Yet, as Richie indicates, MC likely will be a total waste of time if your H's issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. Significantly, you are describing several of the defining traits of PPD (Paranoid Personality Disorder). To be diagnosed as having full-blown PPD, the APA's diagnostic manual requires that 4 of the following 7 traits be exhibited at a strong and persistent level. I have bolded the four traits that seem to match most closely with your description:
> 
> 
> *Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner.*
> ...


I had never heard of PPD until googling the other day (when I found this board). When I began reading about it, I realized that he had a lot of the traits, to some degree or another. But I was so discouraged when I read that NOTHING could really be done for it, that I just stopped reading and wanted to convince myself that this is NOT what is wrong.





Uptown said:


> I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the PPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why PPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H has PPD traits. Of course he does. We all do..


 I do understand this.....I know we could all meet the symptoms of many different issues, but not actually have them. That is where my hope is that this is not really the issue.




Uptown said:


> High functioning PPDers (i.e., those having strong PPD traits) generally interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. The reason is that none of those folks are close enough to him to trigger his fears and paranoia.If your H has moderate to strong traits of PPD, the condition likely was fully formed in early childhood but the traits typically do not manifest strongly until the teens. If he is a high functioning PPDer, you would not have seen the traits while you were only a casual friend. And, when you both became infatuated with each other, you still would not have seen the traits because his infatuation would have convinced him that you are the perfect woman. It is only after about six months into the courtship, then, that the traits likely would have started showing themselves -- when his infatuation started to evaporate.If your H has a personality disorder, this process of "becoming more hateful" is called "picking up fleas." It is nearly impossible to live with a man having strong PPD traits without picking up some of the dysfunctional behaviors yourself.This willingness to admit to others that he has a problem is a _very good sign_. It indicates that he may have the self awareness required to do very well in therapy. ..


This does seem very true with us. As I described in my response to "Wise". He did not show this side of himself to me in the beginning. Then we moved to different towns... that is when the insecurities really came out....I thought it was only from being "long distance". Once we got married and the distance was no longer an issue, the insecurities still remained, but they were not as often.



Uptown said:


> Instead, he feels so strongly that they MUST be true that his conscious mind does its best to rationalize them. The result, of course, is that he ends up making outrageous allegations having nothing to do with reality.


 This is sooo true of him. I even feel bad for him sometimes because I can tell he really believes this stuff, and I know that that must be hurtful. But later, he will seem to come back to earth and admits that he knows that is not who I am.




Uptown said:


> Interestingly, the best-selling book on BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ I therefore suspected, at the beginning of your thread, that you may be describing BPD traits.
> 
> Yet, if that were true, you likely would have said something about your H exhibiting a strong fear of abandonment, rages, and splitting. But you describe none of those. Although you do describe him as being paranoid about your dressing and showering activities, you do not say anything about him being fearful you are actually going to up and leave him. And, instead of describing rages, you say he is verbally abusive but generally does so without raising his voice. As to splitting, you do not seem to describe him as an unstable man who flips back and forth between adoring you and devaluing you.


He is fearful that I am going to leave him. I don't think he was in the beginning, but the more we have fought over this, and the more frustrated I have become he has began to fear that as well. But more than anything he fears me cheating. He has "blown up" before and has always seemed to have a "temper" (his own family describes him in that way), but that has greatly improved since we had children. He doesn't want to yell in front of the kids. You would have to explain the adoring / devalueing more, but...... I think what you are saying may actually be very true. We are either great or horrible with eachother. There does not seem to be much middle ground. 

Although I can say that this is really only since all the stuff began a few months ago. Before that, he seemed to have somewhat "checked out" (he admits that he wasn't as invested as he should have been and that he was putting too much priority on work / not family), and I would say we were much more in the "middle ground" not the hot cold like we are now. He says the incident of me "lying" made him realize how much he doesn't want to lose me and how much he had been taking me for granted. Strangly enough he has worked on many aspects of our marriage since then (just can't get over the insecurity). He is more affectionate, more willing to talk, willing to work on our marriage more than ever before. BUT at the same time the insecurity / controlling behaviors are at an all time high.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. One more question, how would we know that we are dealing with a counselor that is "qualified" to help him in whatever way he needs. And if he really had a disorder, not just an insecure guy, would it make sense that things "got better" for a while? There were a couple years where I rarely had to face the acqusations. Thanks again!!!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> He is fearful that I am going to leave him. ...He has "blown up" before and has always seemed to have a "temper" (his own family describes him in that way), but that has greatly improved since we had children. He doesn't want to yell in front of the kids. You would have to explain the adoring / devalueing more, but...... I think what you are saying may actually be very true. We are either great or horrible with eachother. There does not seem to be much middle ground.


Brit, now you are describing a few of the BPD traits. I therefore suggest you take a look at my description of them to see if most sound very familiar. I list such traits at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ried-about-my-son-sorry-long.html#post1297851. If most of those sound very familiar, I suggest you read my more detailed description of them at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. This description will explain what I mean by the cycle of flipping between adoring and devaluing, i.e., between pushing you away and pulling you back.


> I can say that this is really only since all the stuff began a few months ago.


BPD is called a "spectrum disorder" because every adult on the planet has all of the traits to some extent, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. Moreover, it is common -- even with healthy adults -- for the BPD traits to flare up and become temporarily strong during certain events, e.g., a pronounced hormone change, enormous stress, or a head injury. 

Hence, for a man to have a lifetime pattern of strong BPD traits, those traits would have to start in the teens and then persist each year thereafter (disappearing only during the six month infatuation period during your courtship). That is not what you're describing, however. Rather you are describing a "flareup" of those traits during the last few months of a 13 year relationship. You therefore are not describing a persistent issue with BPD traits. Rather, what you are describing as being persistent for the past 9 years are the PPD traits I mentioned above.


> How would we know that we are dealing with a counselor that is "qualified" to help him in whatever way he needs.


The best way, of course, is to get a recommendation from a trusted professional such as your family doctor, assuming he is knowledgeable about such things. Failing that, the best way is to see a psychologist (who will have a PhD in psychology) or a psychiatrist (who will have both the PhD in psych together with a MD degree so he can prescribe medications). Both of those groups typically are equally good at diagnosing the problem. 

I usually recommend that folks start with a clinical psychologist because, until you know for sure that medication will be needed, there is no point in paying double the fee to get a psychiatrist (who has the medical degree). That is, psychologists usually are as good at diagnosis and are much less expensive. 

Moreover, if you are in a large metro area where you have a choice among many psychologists, I suggest you try to obtain some information on which has the best experience. I say this because skill sets vary _greatly _among individual psychologists, as is true for the members of any profession. 

You may find such information or recommendations online (by Googling for "psychologists") or, alternatively, by calling the psychology wing of a hospital and asking to speak to the head nurse (they know a lot about doctors on staff) -- or calling the psychology department of a university and speaking to the department head.


> And if he really had a disorder, not just an insecure guy, would it make sense that things "got better" for a while? There were a couple years where I rarely had to face the acqusations.


Neither of us is capable of determining whether your H "really has a disorder." As I noted earlier, only professionals can do that. What you are able to do, if you take time to learn what red flags to look for, is to spot any PPD or BPD warning signs that are occurring regularly and strongly. 

I am able to say, however, that personality disorders such as PPD can fluctuate in severity but they do not disappear entirely for several years. Because such disorders arise from a distorted way of thinking that has been deeply ingrained since early childhood, the sufferer does not get any three year vacations away from the PD traits.

I also can say that, if your H does have a full-blown PD but is "high functioning," most people in his life will never see his PD traits. Rather, only those people who are able to trigger his fears will see the PD traits. Usually, those folks are limited to the loved ones when a person is high functioning. Another possibility, as I noted above, is that your H has mild to moderate PD traits which flare up every few years when he is under great stress. All of us are at risk of experiencing such flareups. This is why we sometimes behave very badly when under great stress.


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