# First time here and thinking of divorce



## Estranged74 (Sep 7, 2010)

Hi everybody. My wife and I have been together for 10 years (married for 4). Together, we have a beautiful 6 year old son.

We've reached a point where nothing is working. I have done my best to find a way to resolve our problems, but I feel like the efforts are one sided. Few of the problems:

* She prioritizes too many things before me. I know how that may sound, but we can't sit down for a dinner without interruption from someone or something on her end. She is more than happy to oblige with others; just not me. It seems like she will do anything to keep from spending time with me.

* Although I am the sole provider for my family, she refers to everything as hers ("My house", "My car", etc.). I work my butt off to provide for us, yet I feel she believes the money just magically appears in the account every week. I am happy to work for our family, but I feel taken for granted. She has one year left of school, then she will be making almost twice what I make. I feel big changes coming if we make it to that, and not in a good way.

* She doesn't touch me anymore. Any advances on my part are met with sighs and groans, or the famous "My stomach hurts..". I don't cheat on her, and she knows that.

Bottom line: I don't believe she has any respect for me at all. It feels as if she knows she has me and there is no fear of me doing anything about it. It's like she knows I have no options, so she can treat me as bad as she wants... or just ignore me altogether. Anytime I try to share my frustrations, she makes sure she yells at the top of her lungs, then say "I can't ever do anything right by you!!" Everything always falls back on my lap. It's a recurring, childish game that never ends.

I love her and our son very much, but the reason I stay is for our son. I was ready to leave a few weeks back and tried to explain it to him for the first time. I told him I loved him and mommy very much, but I was going to live somewhere else for a while. He cried his eyes out and it killed me. I am very concerned that, if we can't work it out, it is going to have a huge impact on him.

Anyways, I think it's time for me to start planning my exit. Even though I make the money, we share a joint banking account and she strictly monitors it's activity. My checks are direct deposited, so she knows exactly how much is there. That makes it real difficult to put back money to get my own place. Plus, I can't afford my own place plus continue to pay all the bills for them. They can't make it financially without me right now, but what else can I do?

I think this needs to happen soon. She talks as if they would be fine without me, so I'm going to let her test her theory. I just need some help with the strategy. Any advice?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm divorced once also.

Rest assured, if you don't do any work on yourself, the problems you have in this relationship will follow you to every subsequent relationship(s).

It doesn't sound like she finds you interesting.

Have you changed things about yourself to "meet her needs"?


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## Estranged74 (Sep 7, 2010)

Conrad said:


> It doesn't sound like she finds you interesting.
> 
> Have you changed things about yourself to "meet her needs"?


I'm not really sure what you mean here. I try to meet her needs by supporting her financially and emotionally, plus being an excellent father to our son. Beyond that, I'm not going to jump through hoops while she puts forth no effort.

... and how can I make myself more "interesting"? :scratchhead:


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I'm divorced once also.
> 
> Rest assured, if you don't do any work on yourself, the problems you have in this relationship will follow you to every subsequent relationship(s).
> 
> ...


I so disagree with this. A man can be a seriously good man and still get a very raw deal from his spouse.

Bob


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Become mysterious. Schedule some time for yourself - and don't bend. Get out with friends or alone. Find a hobby that will take you away from the house. A physical hobby might be good - relieve stress, improve your physical condition.

Open up your own checking account and change where you have your check deposited.

Lack of respect can be fatal. Good luck.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Estranged74,
Why talk to your son about it now? He is just 10 years old.

Sounds like you aren't getting any appreciation or emotional support from your wife. If you are looking to your son for that, you are looking in the wrong place. He doesn’t need your burden, he has his own life to lead. He just needs to know what your conclusions and judgements are, once you have made them and you sound like you're a long way off from that.

Many a man have left their wife through a lack of appreciation. We don't get appreciation? Then we feel insignificant and unimportant to the one we do all the work for. It's your wife's problem she doesn't show appreciation to you, not yours.

It's time to get clever, look at what you really need out of your life partner and see if your wife can give it to you. That’s what I did and I came to the conclusion I was never going to get what I needed so I’m going through separation and divorce.

Bob


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I will presume that you have tried a litany of pleasant and positive ways to connect with, and get your spouse onboard with moving the relationship forward.

By your account, those efforts have been met with indifference at best.
Was the dynamic that you have now, always the case, or was there a turning point that you can identify?
How do you feel about conflict with your spouse? You ok with it, or do you try to avoid it?

If you're up for it, your next option would be what I call the "throw a grenade in the room", strategy.

You need to stop doing what you're doing to please her.

As NiceGuy points out, you need to start doing things distinctly for yourself. Things that benefit and are enjoyed by the singular you, not the plural you.

She isn't responding to what you are currently doing, so, it's time to do something different.

You want control of the money? Take control. It's as simple as NiceGuy points out. Just have your DD put into a new account, or split it into two accounts.

I was in a very similar situation and did what I am suggesting. One of two things will occur, the relationship will become more adversarial, or, once you stand up for yourself and wrest back a measure of control and respect in the relationship, she will modify how she interacts with you.

In my case, she was shocked by the change in our dynamic. I got a lot of, "I don't know who you are any more." I stopped asking her for 'permission' to make use of my own time. I stopped consulting her on matters. I just made a decision and did it. If I wanted to take the kids to the playground, I told her thats what we were doing - I didn't ask. Little stuff. Subtle stuff, but it makes all of the difference. Things definitely changed, but not for the better. When I started confronting her on all of the bullsh!t behavior, she did not choose to engage. She chose to withdraw further.

The only other advice I would give you, based on where you indicate your relationship, and her career is going, is to wait her out. It's the 21st century, if she makes twice what you are making - she may end up having to cut a check to you for child support or alimony.

If interested, check out the link below for reading material geared towards saving your marriage, or at the very least, rediscovering who you were and want to be as a man:

Man Up Books


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey 74,

Most men (& some women) can relate to what u r going thru even if they have no experience w/ your particulars themselves.

I for one can. Can u do me (maybe all of us) a favor and try something experimental to clarify your rel'shp for us?
Can u pretend you are your W and write a rebuttal to everything u posted here? I say rebuttal obviously because yer W probably isnt going to agree w/ much of what u wrote and, because i'd like u to see yer marriage thru yer W's eyes.

Are u able and willing to do this for me/us? I'd like to assume u can do so but u tell me/us. I'd really appreciate it on many levels u may not be aware of.
Surely u see where i am going w/ this.
We only have yer "take" on things, which may be skewed in yer favor no? Be honest to best of yer abilities when writing for her should u cooperate.

As i read yer post, i felt yer pain, anguish and, frustration as i often do w/ many who post here at TAM. I felt the "knee jerk" reaction/temptation to lambast yer W for being like sooooo many W's described here by unappreciated, misunderstood H's
including me. But experience has taught me to contemplate the "whole truth" b4 any rush to judgement(s).

I'm sure u can appreciate what i'm saying/driving at. I am certainly not saying i don't believe ya at all. I am just saying we all need to step back and see each situation w/ clarity and fairness before ANY OF US act, speak, think or decide a matter so serious as divorce.

If i ever (TOTALLY) let loose here on TAM w/out doing so myself then shame on me! (and we have folks here just happy enuff to remind me so....lol)

I look forward to yer response.

peace always....................................................ray:


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Become mysterious. Schedule some time for yourself - and don't bend. Get out with friends or alone. Find a hobby that will take you away from the house. A physical hobby might be good - relieve stress, improve your physical condition.
> 
> Open up your own checking account and change where you have your check deposited.
> 
> Lack of respect can be fatal. Good luck.


I think it fine for a man to take a look at himself and see how he can improve. It’s part of the individuation, learning and maturing process and maybe we even pick up a little bit of wisdom along the way.

But I think it very wrong to think that by changing ourselves we can at the same time change another person, especially our spouse. Surely you’ve discovered that by now NiceGuy. Your wife will be who she is no matter what you do to “improve yourself”.

Take for example a total lack of appreciation for the things we do. The only time they get appreciated is when we don’t do them and maybe not even then. I paid all the bills in my marriage for 37 years, not once got thanked for it even though I showed appreciation for every meal cooked for me. Now I’ve found out it’s 50/50 all the way with divorce, house, pensions and things like that. Not even the divorce courts appreciate the bread winners contribution to the marriage. The comfort, safety and security provided to his wife by being financially sound and very generous. Sure I got a lot back but could have done with appreciation and discovered I’d no longer live with my wife with the lack of it.

Sometimes we have to take a look at the two together, from a third party perspective, and ask ourselves “Is this what I really need and want out my life’s partner?”.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

In troubled times marriage is like a game of tennis. Keep hitting the balls over the net and they’re not coming back? Go round the other side, pick the balls up and hit them back again. Still not coming back? Try some different balls, hit them over the net. Still not coming back?

That’s what happens when you “work on yourself”. Nothing the other side of the net changes and because of that your game doesn’t get really any better, apart from the serve that is.

Depends how long you’re prepared to spend time by yourself, improving your game. One day we get disillusioned playing it by ourselves. One day you find a better partner to play with.

Bob


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Well said. This is pretty much my point in the other thread.




AFEH said:


> In troubled times marriage is like a game of tennis. Keep hitting the balls over the net and they’re not coming back? Go round the other side, pick the balls up and hit them back again. Still not coming back? Try some different balls, hit them over the net. Still not coming back?
> 
> That’s what happens when you “work on yourself”. Nothing the other side of the net changes and because of that your game doesn’t get really any better, apart from the serve that is.
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

AFEH said:


> In troubled times marriage is like a game of tennis. Keep hitting the balls over the net and they’re not coming back? Go round the other side, pick the balls up and hit them back again. Still not coming back? Try some different balls, hit them over the net. Still not coming back?
> 
> That’s what happens when you “work on yourself”. Nothing the other side of the net changes and because of that your game doesn’t get really any better, apart from the serve that is.
> 
> ...


BUT.....

Until you "work on yourself", you have no chance of finding a better partner.

It will be the same old ****.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> BUT.....
> 
> Until you "work on yourself", you have no chance of finding a better partner.
> 
> It will be the same old ****.


Just depends on who your self is. If you feel the need to work on yourself then fine.

I don’t feel need to work on myself because of my wife’s behaviour. She owns her own behaviour, I don’t.

Bob


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Estranged74 said:


> Any advice?



I have advice.

First, you are correct, your woman has zero respect for you. This needs to change.

A woman will only respect a man that is willing to stand up for himself. And to do so with an attitude that he actually enjoys doing so, well to get to that point is the goal.

Calm, confident, bold in standing up for himself, and add the bonus of humor in his confrontation and conflict management, and this is what one calls "commanding respect". Do what it takes to get yourself there.

In my marriage, going into 21 years, it is very much clear to my wife that not only will I stand up to her for myself in every way when challenged, I actually enjoy doing so, and she knows it!

So if she was to say some offhand remark, or to act in any way sassy or disrespectful, it is almost like "game on" in my eyes. ANd to see the light bulb go off over her head sometimes when she sees the confrontation coming, even witout sometimes I even need to say a word, will so suddenly her tune change, or the words rephrased with respect, or her to even so much like a little girl put her hand behind her rear knowing I am prone to giving her a firm swat if she tests me in a certain way.

And know in all this, for her respect for me is reinforced and her sexual attraction to me, well, I cannot remember the last time, maybe a decade or more, that some argument or challenge did not end up with us together in bed. For a woman is going to be a woman, and she will test her man. When a man passes these test, life is good for both of them and happy and blissful and productive. When a man is not passing these test, or even unwilling to recognize these opportunities, well life becomes more and more miserable, nagging, complaining, withdrawing to the point the man is often wishing for the day of his death! (For in so many ways, does his spirit die a little with each caving in, do not ignore this!)

IN the relationship, control or be controlled.

So take control of your own time. Pursue some hobby or activity for yourself.

ANd take control of the finances, even so much as to start a new account, sure, but even so, to step up to insist that your priorities in the finance are declared and considered.

In these other areas, if she is truly not listening and acting childish, then it is the time for the cold bucket of water over the head. And in this case, just this. Schedule marriage counceling for both of you, and tell her where and when the appointment is, and that you are expecting her to go.

ANd if she refuses, go yourself. 

And if she continues to refuse, then you get a lawyer.

Harsh? Maybe. But this is the point. You have let your woman have too much control over you, and over the relationship. You have admited she knows you will "never cheat."

So in a relationship, is always a struggle for control. Your struggle, seems to have simply caved in on all fronts to try to make her happy, and this never works.

Instead, and this is the reality whether in this relationship or any other relationship, that respect and sexual attraction and pursuing the things in life that make you happy, for the good man wanting a successful marriage, all these things are this one thing, that you know what you want in life, and are willing to pursue it!

And this other advice on this thread, I'm not sure even the purpose of some of these things said. If a good man is not willing to confront and expect and demand from his own life nothing less than his hearts desire, then for sure he will never find it. Do not fall for any talk or advice less than this, there is not a perfect woman anywhere in this world, just as there is not a perfect man, all we have is ourselves. To have the heart and courage and boldness to fight for what makes us happy, whether we are fighting the ones we love and cherish, or fighting ourselves, regardless it is a fight. 

To be successful in relationships, know this one thing, learn to embrace and enjoy the confrontation, the standing up for yourself. This is the raw elements of respect, and of sexual attraction, do not miss this!

I wish you well.



Estranged74 said:


> Hi everybody. My wife and I have been together for 10 years (married for 4). Together, we have a beautiful 6 year old son.
> 
> We've reached a point where nothing is working. I have done my best to find a way to resolve our problems, but I feel like the efforts are one sided. Few of the problems:
> 
> ...


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

To all:

i agree w/ what u r saying if i understand the context u r using it re: the tennis ball analogy. Yet re: the "changing" critcism i think that conrad/nice777 may've been misunderstood, or misapplied.

I think that when one takes the initiative to change either a) his proactive behavior or b) his reactive behavior; he has taken an important necessary first step in changing the dynamics of the dysfunctional rel'shp. With proper application, be it counselor, book/cd etc, one persons iniative will bring about definite CHANGES in their relationship. 

Ironically it may not be the change u r looking for, as it could very well expose/explode something wrong that one or both of u are not willing to change/accept/discuss etc.

I agree that it is paradoxically true & false in many cases that "pumping up, going out, distancing yerself, doing more/doing less" etc, can also effect some pos changes in yer mate but.........these tend to be short-lived (whether mths/yrs)and not counted upon to truly change the OS behavior.

YOU should make these changes for personal enjoyment/improvement 1st, with him/her 2ndary in the equation.

*BBW*,
What u write is appealing to most men as its domineering in its philosophy, i.e., male oriented, testosterone filled, winner/loser etc. I am tempted w/ this too when exasperated w/ my W, as i want a "fix" a "solution" now, not later.

[ btw i assume u marr'd the weaker more passive type woman as u would not get away w/ what u wrote/described here w/ a stronger willed woman no matter how alpha u think u r. trust me as they can just pick up the phone and those "bad boys-bad boys, whatya gonna do when they come for u..." show up and take u away to a popular time-share hostel known as city jail for processing or maybe a 1-niter.]

But that dont work long term nowadays. the landscapes all changed. 
Only the wife beaters and their co-dependant enablers get to act out anything much like what u described. (not calling u one per se.....) Gals today just know their "rights" too well these days eh? (I just hope this pendulum swings back to the middle sometime soon.)

The best chance, or best shot for EVERYONE (M/F) is a "win-win philosophy" which i believe was well covered in a book i read some time ago by stephen covey.

Does this work for everyone? NO, of course not. There are too many locos/psychs/malcontents out there to go along w/ the too many greedy capitalists/communists/psuedo christians/psuedo muslims etc, to make it so.

Hopefully u or i am not one of them or don't know of any in our own lives. LOL (i think).

If i missed something i'm sure u'll let me know.

oh well was fun pondering/pontificating alittle bit...time 4 lunch!


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## Anonny123 (Aug 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Become mysterious. Schedule some time for yourself - and don't bend. Get out with friends or alone. Find a hobby that will take you away from the house. A physical hobby might be good - relieve stress, improve your physical condition.
> 
> Open up your own checking account and change where you have your check deposited.
> 
> Lack of respect can be fatal. Good luck.


Lack of respect is VERY fatal - niceguy always has great things to say.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Say, I just read yer post, and some things leapt out at me;
You make all the money, but she takes care of all the finances. 
Of course! She may be a megalomaniac who wants you to think you can't do anything for yourself-you need her and she knows it!

She keeps saying "MY house, MY car," etc.
Another one! She wants you to think that because she takes care of things i.e. the finances, son, cooking, that you are working for her. And if you p*** her off, she will scream divorce, drag you to court and make you hemmorhage every material posession you have earned!

She will finish school soon, make more money...
BINGO! In her eyes, you're not her partner, you're the man who gave her an easy, safe place to stay while she builds up herself. Then when she can finally get out on her own, she'll dump you and "trade up" for a mega successful trophy husband, and all her friends will envy her for "finally getting it right."

What is a womans four favorite animals?
A mink in the closet,
A Jaguar in the garage,
A tiger in the bed...
...and a jackass to pay for it all!


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## taylor78 (Sep 4, 2010)

:iagree: 

Just because you're providing the financial resource doesn't mean that she has to do everything that you want her to do. Give her plenty of respect and care for her. Talk with her more and listen to her. 

Or you could go with BigBadWolf's opinion. The power game, control or get controlled. Depending on your wife's personality, the game of control is much more effective in some situations.

But personally, if you think about your son, divorce is not an option. 

Good Luck


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Bad Wolf...the more I read of you the more I want to spank you! It's like you are the poster child for what not to do to get a woman to be truly intimate and in love with you. It might work with your wife but that is only one woman. I find your descriptions of your behavior to be unattractive, not evolved and sickening.

Estranged74, you need to find the true answers to a few questions to best figure out how to change your relationship into one that is mutually enjoyable and satisfying. Find out: Why does your wife refer to all these things as hers alone? Why doesn't she appreciate you? Why does she not want to make love or have sex with you? What is keeping you two apart when you should be closer to her than anyone?

I wish I could answer these things for you or provide a simple formula that would fix all your problems and make you feel appreciated and satisfied in your relationship but only your wife can do that for you. I can recommend opening lines of communication and breaking through unseen barriers, stepping into her world without your own blinders on and digging deep to get to the bottom of it. I also think you might ask her if she feels appreciated too. Is it possible you discount her responsibilities and over count your own?

Otherwise, you can continue to be miserable or put on your dominator costume and have at her like BBW would suggest.


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

Boy this a REALLY good post both side are being represented here…I would like to add on this post not to highjack but would like to keep it going because shedding some guidance would be great …I see BBW point but then again he has not met my wife…lol,,,who wouldn’t like to be the Alpha in all but some men by nature and women I don’t think are cut out for this…even though I could be that way most of the time it does sound good, what this poster is saying is pretty much what has been happening to me for many years exactly …I wonder if it’s a standard occurrence for many couples that are seriously mismatched and have been together for a while…,(US 20 YEARS),some days I wake up and I am so sick of my marriage I wish she and /or I would just leave no questions asked…ANYTIME I debate anything with her it ALWAYS ends up in a major power struggle/ fight … honestly it seems like the ONLY time I get peace and a little pat on the back is when I totally play the submittal role and just basically “yes dear “ to everything she says and wants and do it right then…that’s the ONLY time…I have tried to fight her /stand up on many fronts and it just never works with this woman it drives a wedge farther apart between us… very rarely do I get the outcome, but when I do its because I know the decision is wrong and some reasoning’s crept into her head and I refuse to budge but this is always after an emotional upheaval /toll…again I am not trying to highjack your post I just see what’s happening to you and is oh so a familiar tune…again some of the times are good as long as I do whatever/ whenever and agree then it is a tolerable marriage but I usually start to get bitter because mostly my emotional and sexual needs aren’t met because we are always on her terms and then here comes the resentment and so I stand up and here is the viscous circle again…because this women will never back down on anything and when I get to that point,( usually over something stupid one of us said), I dig my heels in as well because at that point I usually don’t give a [email protected] .

I believe that marriage partners resemble what represents to them a <good marriage> on what they see the way its supposed to be .i.e.…in her case her mom was the supreme boss told her dad how the cabbage ate the cow and she saw them sleep in separate beds with NEVER any affection shown throughout her growing up with them…they never kissed or anything …in my case my mother and father where very charismatic if my dad liked a song he would get up in a crowded restaurant and grab my mother and start dancing he never ever cared who was watching…they where always hand in hand/ mouth to mouth through their entire marriage till he passed away and treated her like a princess always …don’t get me wrong they had their disagreements but this is what I saw 99% of the time…

When we first got together my wife liked that about me and was very affectionate but through the years she has turned into her mother just a dominant person who bends very little…she is such a different person … we have had some tough times don’t get me wrong I have made some mistakes and so has she but mostly me which I see has been out of desperations and/or selfishness… 

So where was MATCH.COM when I was getting married LOL…I wish there was a definitive answer for this type of marriage situation…I don’t know about you but when I try to talk to my wife about my needs she gets very defensive / angry and nasty and always ends up in a emotional battle…I get the “Here we go again” … I just don’t know how someone can go thru life not needing little if any emotional and sexual needs at least while you can still physically do these things…lol just beyond me …I really believe in her eyes when I play her fathers role of the submissive neutered male she thinks she has a great marriage …maybe as I get older I get more of BBW in me then I like to admit…lol…but who knows …why do people stay in marriages such as ours? mostly kids , religious and the “I just don’t want to go through the divorce crap mentality”… so what do we do continue to whine all the time and stay in a our current situation or do something about it….I think most of would do something if we knew what that “something” was…counseling tells us to go on date night…on certain nights of the week you get yadda yadda blahh blahh blahh ,,,lol…it seems to end up in the same arena as it began…[email protected] I sound bad today …lol… I think before you get married you should be able to view they way the spouses where raised in their parents marriage as some people are incapable of change and some are...Especially those of faith…so you see I was absolutely no help to you …prayers and faith has kept me but if I believed God Would give me a free pass I would probably take it ,(today anyway),….lol…don’t get me wrong she has been a good friend to me mostly but we are certainly not compatible…I think one of us is just waiting for the other to die LOLLOL [email protected] iam bad today...


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Estranged74,
> Why talk to your son about it now? He is just 10 years old.
> 
> Sounds like you aren't getting any appreciation or emotional support from your wife. If you are looking to your son for that, you are looking in the wrong place. He doesn’t need your burden, he has his own life to lead. He just needs to know what your conclusions and judgements are, once you have made them and you sound like you're a long way off from that.
> ...




I really like youre insight just had to comment on all youre posts very good ...glad iam reading them !!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I want to add something to the post below. Guys - if you have gotten to the point described in these posts I have news for you. You NEED to get good at conflict. Because otherwise your next woman is going to steamroll you. 

It may be you are "good" at everything else - but unless you are ALSO good at conflict you are going to end up the doormat in the relationship. So - the thing about conflict is that the "nice guy" perceives it in all sorts of negative ways. Me - I visualize conflict as a wrestling match with a woman in a negligee. It is something that done well starts with her laughing and ultimately resolves in her lying under you naked, legs wrapped around you fuvking your brains out. Done badly results in her screaming furiously at you while she gets dressed. 

If you want to get good at conflict you have to practice. Their is a never ending cascade of opportunities if you simply pay attention. Keep in mind a few simple rules - and practice practice practice. 
1. Prepare Mentally: If you want to succeed you have to prepare. If my W did something routinely that was BS I would come up with a little script for how to handle it - practice a couple times in my head and then wait. The next time it happened I would run my script. A GOOD script has questions - and then it includes a prepared answer to each of the most likely responses. 

2. Prepare Emotionally: If you stay relaxed, confident (you know you are right and you are being fair - so you SHOULD be confident) and if possible playful. If you get tense - it won't go as well. If you get angry - learn to break it off and re-engage later. "I am not happy, and we are going to address this further later today".

There are lots of books on this but ultimately you practice and practice and you improve. 

Be realistic though. Even if you get very skilled at this - if your W has lost respect from you over a long period of time SHE is going to behave very badly when you assert yourself. 

Women LOVE a guy who is good at conflict. It makes them hot. 



BigBadWolf said:


> I have advice.
> 
> First, you are correct, your woman has zero respect for you. This needs to change.
> 
> ...


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

I love you guys I truly do man :smthumbup: iam very envious trust me I certainly think in this area some of us are clearly outmatched …some women just will not ever stop even if you start out like this they just wont stop…I can remember many a nights getting up out of bed after 2-3 hours of combat and yet to have them chase you down to continue when all you want is for her to STOP the mouth…by then it has usually ended up in personal attacks and that’s when I have the hardest time controlling my mouth…but I never get concession after hours and hours and hours believe me I’ve tried and continue to try ….I am telling you there are some women you just cant beat at this …just watch War of The roses …there are truly women like that …If I ever get a apology its usually “I am sorry YOU provoked me to that point “ that’s about the best it gets…even when I apologize …this strategy probably works for some but not all …at least not mine …I wish it did …that doesn’t mean I am a welcome matt to be walked on I still fight with her and stand up but [email protected] it gets ugly usually I just end up shutting down and resenting her even more… it just gets old and tiresome


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

gfl said:


> Boy this a REALLY good post both side are being represented here…I would like to add on this post not to highjack but would like to keep it going because shedding some guidance would be great …I see BBW point but then again he has not met my wife…lol,,,who wouldn’t like to be the Alpha in all but some men by nature and women I don’t think are cut out for this…even though I could be that way most of the time it does sound good, what this poster is saying is pretty much what has been happening to me for many years exactly …I wonder if it’s a standard occurrence for many couples that are seriously mismatched and have been together for a while…,(US 20 YEARS),some days I wake up and I am so sick of my marriage I wish she and /or I would just leave no questions asked…ANYTIME I debate anything with her it ALWAYS ends up in a major power struggle/ fight … honestly it seems like the ONLY time I get peace and a little pat on the back is when I totally play the submittal role and just basically “yes dear “ to everything she says and wants and do it right then…that’s the ONLY time…I have tried to fight her /stand up on many fronts and it just never works with this woman it drives a wedge farther apart between us… very rarely do I get the outcome, but when I do its because I know the decision is wrong and some reasoning’s crept into her head and I refuse to budge but this is always after an emotional upheaval /toll…again I am not trying to highjack your post I just see what’s happening to you and is oh so a familiar tune…again some of the times are good as long as I do whatever/ whenever and agree then it is a tolerable marriage but I usually start to get bitter because mostly my emotional and sexual needs aren’t met because we are always on her terms and then here comes the resentment and so I stand up and here is the viscous circle again…because this women will never back down on anything and when I get to that point,( usually over something stupid one of us said), I dig my heels in as well because at that point I usually don’t give a [email protected] .
> 
> I believe that marriage partners resemble what represents to them a <good marriage> on what they see the way its supposed to be .i.e.…in her case her mom was the supreme boss told her dad how the cabbage ate the cow and she saw them sleep in separate beds with NEVER any affection shown throughout her growing up with them…they never kissed or anything …in my case my mother and father where very charismatic if my dad liked a song he would get up in a crowded restaurant and grab my mother and start dancing he never ever cared who was watching…they where always hand in hand/ mouth to mouth through their entire marriage till he passed away and treated her like a princess always …don’t get me wrong they had their disagreements but this is what I saw 99% of the time…
> 
> ...


There is no definite answer because your wife is an individual. Mem says that women like a man that is good at conflict and that it makes them hot. This is vague and a gross generalization. If you want the answers for your relationship you have to look directly at your relationship. You have to change the way you behave, yes, but more in that you have to be honest and open with yourself and your wife. I'd also suggest finding out why your wife changed and what her wants and needs are in the relationship.

According to your post it looks like in your case your wife changed after having children. Maybe you should explore this. I have three children and it can be very overwhelming and tiring to maintain a relationship with my husband and care for my three children. If you have children you must know that caring for the needs of children is a thankless job. It is also very stressful just to try to keep them alive each day :rofl:

I am a demanding woman but not exactly like your wife as our sex life has always been very good and our intimate connection has remained (married 14 years). We still struggle and learn something knew about one another almost every day. We grow together instead of apart and it sounds as though your wife and you grew apart rather than together. Then the question is whether or not you want to do the work to begin growing together again. There is no simple answer. Learning how to argue well might make your wife hot or it might just irritate the crap out of her!


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

Trenton said:


> There is no definite answer because your wife is an individual. Mem says that women like a man that is good at conflict and that it makes them hot. This is vague and a gross generalization. If you want the answers for your relationship you have to look directly at your relationship. You have to change the way you behave, yes, but more in that you have to be honest and open with yourself and your wife. I'd also suggest finding out why your wife changed and what her wants and needs are in the relationship.
> 
> According to your post it looks like in your case your wife changed after having children. Maybe you should explore this. I have three children and it can be very overwhelming and tiring to maintain a relationship with my husband and care for my three children. If you have children you must know that caring for the needs of children is a thankless job. It is also very stressful just to try to keep them alive each day :rofl:
> 
> I am a demanding woman but not exactly like your wife as our sex life has always been very good and our intimate connection has remained (married 14 years). We still struggle and learn something knew about one another almost every day. We grow together instead of apart and it sounds as though your wife and you grew apart rather than together. Then the question is whether or not you want to do the work to begin growing together again. There is no simple answer. Learning how to argue well might make your wife hot or it might just irritate the crap out of her!


thanks for the response and very true point !! yes after we had our son she has probably changed the most ...i really do try to help i bath him split the homework, head coach soccer team and ass coach baseball, feed him ect...clean up after myself and him , take him to school everyday he is my life and /or heaven on earth...i feel we share chores fairly… she does alot for him as well but we do argue about that sometime too ...you know she always feels like she does so much more then me and I just don’t see it …I am always doing something on her list /fixing us dinner ,grocery shop , vehicle maintenance we also have housecleaner that comes …I think its more she puts way to many demands on herself being honest i really think she has always had some control issues /OCD...for the first 10 years i could never set an empty glass down and walk away it would end up clean and back on the shelf... she irons my sons clothes and he’s in the first grade lol...i have to get on her because ill catch her still wiping his rear after he leaves the bathroom so yea she overdoes it alot....i don’t think she can relax truly and i end up being the whipping stick ...gosh i sound like a whiner I am not perfect either… like my dad I am a VERY affectionate person I probably can be annoying to someone like her …. I believe I can be very moody as well … one of my biggest complaints through our marriage is the intimacy …she has tried a little to be somewhat more affectionate but its just vague and heartless even when we are intimate we don’t kiss on the lips anymore I try sometimes but its just weird ?????is that normal??? we do the occasional peck kiss about 3 -4 times a week …I f I try anymore then I get the sigh and hurry up posturing …. Not to be harsh but honest at some points I actually loath her mostly because anything she wants to talk about will usually end up in a fight or a deadline or her advice on how I should do things … even if its not about me or her…iam sure she feels the same sometimes…I am not a total Sally either I still keep my man card I drive big 4x4 /bass fish ect…I think you’re right each case is so uniquely different…at this point I agree with Bob I have to do an inventory of what I want to do and want out of the rest of my life … I don’t see us really changing our stripes…what I have done is accepted the way she is towards me and my needs but it doesn’t mean I like it and I wish I wasn’t so lonely and lacking in my marriage I sometimes truly wish I didn’t want the desire for intimacy …. Its just so hard to call it quits when you’ve been with someone that long and have children…I know she will 100% blame me if I want out but when I want to talk its immediate defensiveness and anger … you know I am just tired of it all …I wish we could just be friends and raise my son correctly but I know it will be very traumatizing for my son especially with her reaction and bottom line he is more important then me … so who knows …I know I am going to continue to try to talk about it then if she continues with the same old my fault crap I probably stay with a friend for a while or stay at our lake trailer …I have never actually moved out might be good for both of us course she has told me if i ever move out she would be done I may just have to call her on that ,,,


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

You sound like an amazing husband and father. I don't think it's normal to just peck kiss. My husband and I still passionately kiss often and always when making love.

In your post this stood out the most, "I think its more she puts way to many demands on herself..."

This is most likely the crux of her problem. She is neglecting herself purposely for whatever reason and then possibly blaming you and even your son. The problem is you need to talk to her about all of this. At least give her a chance before you bail on your marriage. She was once a different person, most likely more herself in reality and I am guessing she would love to be able to reclaim that person as well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I am going to clarify this point about conflict. I am actually very easygoing AND accommodating most of the time. For example - take ANY list and at most I will pick the one or two things I don't want to do and she can choose from the rest. That could be a color palette for painting a room, or a list of restaurants, or a set of possible weekend activities. 

I do however have ZERO tolerance for disrespectful behavior. This is not "head of household" type respect. This is "golden rule" respect. Meaning the first words out of my mouth tend to be "X just happened - I would not do that to you". I think this is critically important in a marriage. And it is NOT symmetrical. Meaning - my W might have 3 love languages and I might have two different ones. There is no score keeping. There might be a conversation that goes like this:
When you do X, it causes Y to happen. I don't like Y. You know I don't like it. If you do X, you are not acting as if my needs are your highest priority. 

But I don't let stuff go. You don't get to do something aggressive/rude and then act nice an hour later and we both pretend it didn't happen. It gets addressed. No yelling or screaming - sometimes actually in a fun/playful way - but it does get addressed. It has to. My W is aggressive - she would absolutely have neutered me by now if I wasn't capable of saying "that is unacceptable" followed by an open ended "friendly - upbeat - but reserved posture" until resolution. And reserved means I don't say "ILY", I don't do the nice little extra things that I typically do and I gradually start spending more time doing my own thing - outside the house. No respect - no dice. 

So what does SHE think about all this? I remember being astonished last year when she was giving me a list of reasons she loved me and volunteered this little gem: "I love that you call me out on my BS when I am being a *****". 

Funny - I would say the same is true in reverse - I just never realized she felt that way. The guys on here who never get a real apology. WTF is that? If you respect someone, and you screwed up - you apologize. If you can't admit you are wrong you don't fit in my life because you are either too insecure, or way too controlling. 




Trenton said:


> There is no definite answer because your wife is an individual. Mem says that women like a man that is good at conflict and that it makes them hot. This is vague and a gross generalization. If you want the answers for your relationship you have to look directly at your relationship. You have to change the way you behave, yes, but more in that you have to be honest and open with yourself and your wife. I'd also suggest finding out why your wife changed and what her wants and needs are in the relationship.
> 
> According to your post it looks like in your case your wife changed after having children. Maybe you should explore this. I have three children and it can be very overwhelming and tiring to maintain a relationship with my husband and care for my three children. If you have children you must know that caring for the needs of children is a thankless job. It is also very stressful just to try to keep them alive each day :rofl:
> 
> I am a demanding woman but not exactly like your wife as our sex life has always been very good and our intimate connection has remained (married 14 years). We still struggle and learn something knew about one another almost every day. We grow together instead of apart and it sounds as though your wife and you grew apart rather than together. Then the question is whether or not you want to do the work to begin growing together again. There is no simple answer. Learning how to argue well might make your wife hot or it might just irritate the crap out of her!


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh geez, some of the advice you received is so deplorable I didn't bother reading much of this second page. The reason your wife does not respect you is that you don't respect yourself. As long as you live like a meek animal, she will not regard you as an equal or worthy of respect. It works out this way in all such relationships and matters not that you are the breadwinner, so there is no point in you believing anyone who says your wife is only using you. Besides, I hope you don't think she has been using for 10 whole years. I doubt you could make an excuse for that long a period of time. She first needs reason to respect you and then she needs reason to remain excited in the relationship. I'm sorry to say it is cowardly of you to be afraid to leave your wife. It is cowardly to be afraid to use money from the joint account to get yourself another apartment just because she would notice. No one respects the meek - a shame to say but is true. Put your butt on your shoulders and stand up to her. Tell her your marriage depends on the two of you going to marriage counseling or you will leave. She will reluctantly go. Another option is to leave and then tell her counseling is an absolute necessity if she wants to salvage the marriage. You will see a very big turnaround in her. In the interim time, learn about Alpha Male and Beta Male and how to incorporate the two. The end result is what makes a woman want to stay and makes her remain in love and respectful. The Alpha Male is who gets the woman and drives her crazy. The Beta Male is who endears her to him and makes her feel secure. For a good place to start, google Athol Kaye.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

My point was more about how individual couples will have very different needs and there is no black and white solution that will work for everyone. I recognize Big Bad Wolf and you both have happy relationships. I think this is great. You obviously very much take into account your wife's feelings and desires. This is awesome in my opinion, but to think that you would automatically match up with any other woman because of your alpha/beta combo or whatever else has been written in books, is wrong in my opinion. Culture, experience and genetics (as well as gender) play such a great role in what we are and aren't attracted to and to what will make us happy.




MEM11363 said:


> I am going to clarify this point about conflict. I am actually very easygoing AND accommodating most of the time. For example - take ANY list and at most I will pick the one or two things I don't want to do and she can choose from the rest. That could be a color palette for painting a room, or a list of restaurants, or a set of possible weekend activities.
> 
> I do however have ZERO tolerance for disrespectful behavior. This is not "head of household" type respect. This is "golden rule" respect. Meaning the first words out of my mouth tend to be "X just happened - I would not do that to you". I think this is critically important in a marriage. And it is NOT symmetrical. Meaning - my W might have 3 love languages and I might have two different ones. There is no score keeping. There might be a conversation that goes like this:
> When you do X, it causes Y to happen. I don't like Y. You know I don't like it. If you do X, you are not acting as if my needs are your highest priority.
> ...


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Susan2010 said:


> Oh geez, some of the advice you received is so deplorable I didn't bother reading much of this second page. The reason your wife does not respect you is that you don't respect yourself. As long as you live like a meek animal, she will not regard you as an equal or worthy of respect. It works out this way in all such relationships and matters not that you are the breadwinner, so there is no point in you believing anyone who says your wife is only using you. Besides, I hope you don't think she has been using for 10 whole years. I doubt you could make an excuse for that long a period of time. She first needs reason to respect you and then she needs reason to remain excited in the relationship. I'm sorry to say it is cowardly of you to be afraid to leave your wife. It is cowardly to be afraid to use money from the joint account to get yourself another apartment just because she would notice. No one respects the meek - a shame to say but is true. Put your butt on your shoulders and stand up to her. Tell her your marriage depends on the two of you going to marriage counseling or you will leave. She will reluctantly go. Another option is to leave and then tell her counseling is an absolute necessity if she wants to salvage the marriage. You will see a very big turnaround in her. In the interim time, learn about Alpha Male and Beta Male and how to incorporate the two. The end result is what makes a woman want to stay and makes her remain in love and respectful. The Alpha Male is who gets the woman and drives her crazy. The Beta Male is who endears her to him and makes her feel secure. For a good place to start, google Athol Kaye.


A meek animal? :scratchhead:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Many herbivores are "meek". 




Trenton said:


> A meek animal? :scratchhead:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I agree all relationships are different. That said, this list is near universal for how NOT to act as a man if you want to have a long term passionate relationship. It is amazing how similar the male sexless posts are in tone - and most of them either directly have generous heapings of these behaviors or imply them:

Over-emotionalism 
Whining
A lack of initiative
Irrational thinking 
Victim thinking
Wants to be taken care of and protected 





Trenton said:


> My point was more about how individual couples will have very different needs and there is no black and white solution that will work for everyone. I recognize Big Bad Wolf and you both have happy relationships. I think this is great. You obviously very much take into account your wife's feelings and desires. This is awesome in my opinion, but to think that you would automatically match up with any other woman because of your alpha/beta combo or whatever else has been written in books, is wrong in my opinion. Culture, experience and genetics (as well as gender) play such a great role in what we are and aren't attracted to and to what will make us happy.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Many herbivores are "meek".


I think humility is the most attractive characteristic a man can have. Being strong, attractive and other typically revered traits in men won't matter to me if the man is conceited and always fluffing his feathers (might as well stick to animal analogies in this thread). For me, the turn off would be so great that I would disregard all other characteristics.

In my mind a humble man is a great man because his confidence and assurance comes from within instead of having to be validated from without. The same goes for a woman.

I also think it is an insult to call men or women animals. You and I both have the ability to think and empathize on levels that set us apart from other species. To behave like an animal is a step down on the evolutionary scale.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> I agree all relationships are different. That said, this list is near universal for how NOT to act as a man if you want to have a long term passionate relationship. It is amazing how similar the male sexless posts are in tone - and most of them either directly have generous heapings of these behaviors or imply them:
> 
> Over-emotionalism
> Whining
> ...


If any man is exhibiting these characteristics there will be no sexual attraction and he will find himself in a sexless relationship with an unhappy woman if he is in a relatinship at all. 



Trenton said:


> I think humility is the most attractive characteristic a man can have. Being strong, attractive and other typically revered traits in men won't matter to me if the man is conceited and always fluffing his feathers (might as well stick to animal analogies in this thread). For me, the turn off would be so great that I would disregard all other characteristics.


Seeing this kind of statement actually typed out in black and white, I have to ask with a straight face how is your own sexual relationship? :scratchhead:



> In my mind a humble man is a great man because his confidence and assurance comes from within instead of having to be validated from without. The same goes for a woman.
> 
> I also think it is an insult to call men or women animals. You and I both have the ability to think and empathize on levels that set us apart from other species. To behave like an animal is a step down on the evolutionary scale.


Sexual attraction is a primal emotion communicated with a primal language. 

Humans are animals, and in the grand scheme of things are not the unique and precious individual snowflakes we like to pretend. 

While to say individualism or so special or unique individual is great for poems and political speeches in the matter of sexual attraction is naive thinking at best and self destructive thinking at worst. 

These things are beyond denial as to what in the good man is desirable to a woman, as one can see by actions and not words what kind of behaviors in a man that a woman responds to. To argue this is not even a point.

Even if some woman says it is about being humble and equal and 50/50 and some intellectual this or that, one only needs to see the actions to seperate such wishful thinking from the reality. 

It is easier to make the sun rise in the west or a river to flow uphill than to pretend we are sexually attracted to something we are not! 

So when the seeds of confusion or doubt cloud the clear water, it is always this that any good man or woman can understand the structure of sexual attraction and the way will become bright and clear. With sexual relations it is always in actions and behavior that show the truth.

In behaviors it is beyond dispute the good man that is confident and bold and comfortable with himself that will interest a woman and win her intimacy. 

A woman in a relationship with this man is feeling extremely sexual herself and is not insecure and angst filled but confident with herself and on fire for her man.

And the man who behaves opposite this will see in the actions of the woman the fruit of his behavior as well, as he realizes the misery of a sex starved relationship.

The woman with this kind of man is overwhelmed with feelings of insecurity and resentment and will often compensate to be some perfectionist and prone to nagging and looking for happiness and self fulfillment in other things outside the relationship, even to the point of telling herself sex is not so important and such things. 

At least until she runs into the good man that is confident and bold and comfortable with himself that suddenly lights her fire!

These things of sexual attraction are as predictable as the sun rising in the east or the river flowing downhill. It is nothing to be offended of or to try to make confusion out of something so wonderously and beautifully simple.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

"Seeing this kind of statement actually typed out in black and white, I have to ask with a straight face how is your own sexual relationship? :scratchhead:"

Very good for both of us. I feel safe and connected which works for me. It also makes me comfortable enough to express my desires and willing to fulfill and explore his. Our physical and emotional connection to one another, at its root, has always been intense. We've not had dry spells in regards to sex even after babies or arguments. It's how we connect when it seems like we're losing that connection.

"Sexual attraction is a primal emotion communicated with a primal language."

For you and maybe for many others but not for me. In fact, vocal articulation is a sure way to turn me on. My husband speaks two languages, non of which are the caveman language, and when I see him speak them my heart beats fast.

"Humans are animals, and in the grand scheme of things are not the unique and precious individual snowflakes we like to pretend."

I never said we were precious individual snowflakes and I didn't intend to imply it either. We are animals but there are very large differences between ourselves and all other animals as a collective. This difference is not found in our individuality because we are all snowflakes. 

"While to say individualism or so special or unique individual is great for poems and political speeches in the matter of sexual attraction is naive thinking at best and self destructive thinking at worst."

I disagree. I think believing that we are all the same and will have the same desires and list of dislikes/likes or turn on's/turn off's is making your own world view self important and inflated.

To the rest of what you said, which is really more of the same, I politely disagree. My husband is strong and he is charming as well as talented and loving but he is also humble. He has no need to prove anything to anyone. He doesn't have to show off and pride is not in his way. 

An example of this is with our children. Let's say he got angry and yelled at one of our children and said some things that I was upset that he said. I would tell him this and, unlike my husband, I am emotional so I would say it in an upset manner. I on'y do this when I really believe he was wrong and it really upset me.

He comes back an hour, day or week later and apologizes to me and then to our children. Explains why he did it as well as why it was wrong. I have such respect for this ability in him. I am more spiteful and prideful than he is. I would have a hard time saying sorry but he has taught me how to better apologize and mean it. It makes everything in our lives better and changed the way I communicate.

I'm going to end with saying your simplistic view leaves out too much complexity that is innately human. This is why you can follow a book, be an alpha and have a miserable marriage or be a beta and be in heaven or any variation in between. We are not a pack of lions.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T,
Humble has several starkly different definitions. Which one you are referring to? 

–adjective
1. not proud or arrogant; modest: to be humble although successful.
2. having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience, etc.: In the presence of so many world-famous writers I felt very humble.
3. low in rank, importance, status, quality, etc.; lowly: of humble origin; a humble home.
4. courteously respectful: In my humble opinion you are wrong.
5. low in height, level, etc.; small in size: a humble member of the galaxy.



Trenton said:


> I think humility is the most attractive characteristic a man can have. Being strong, attractive and other typically revered traits in men won't matter to me if the man is conceited and always fluffing his feathers (might as well stick to animal analogies in this thread). For me, the turn off would be so great that I would disregard all other characteristics.
> 
> In my mind a humble man is a great man because his confidence and assurance comes from within instead of having to be validated from without. The same goes for a woman.
> 
> I also think it is an insult to call men or women animals. You and I both have the ability to think and empathize on levels that set us apart from other species. To behave like an animal is a step down on the evolutionary scale.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> Humble has several starkly different definitions. Which one you are referring to?
> 
> –adjective
> ...


I thought I was making that clear in the context of what I was writing but if not then I would say 1 & 4 with 1 being paramount.


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

Trenton:

We had our long productive talk this weekend and her major issue with me is what you said:


“]We hHe comes back an hour, day or week later and apologizes to me and then to our children. Explains why he did it as well as why it was wrong. I have such respect for this ability in him. I am more spiteful and prideful than he is. I would have a hard time saying sorry but he has taught me how to better apologize and mean it. It makes everything in our lives better and changed the way I communicated” 

It is amazing how something like this could put up such walls in our marriage...I would really never apologize for any of my disrespectful behavior when it really came down to it...it makes sense when we where able to sit down and talk these things through and I can see how my prideful personality would cause her to be distant and shut off as well, because when I dug my heels in that was it I would never budge or apologize period… there is some issues she is sincerely going to work on as well and we have some plans to try when one of us is acting out...just so it doesn’t get to the critical level...we also watched old videos when my son was a baby and how happy we where and the times we had when he was young...sincerely heart melting for both of us ...I think when any couple with any issues should go back and look at you’re life together/pictures/video especially with the children...kinda brings it home as to what is really important…as much as I like some of the posts there is some truth to the fact a that some women do need to know her husband will be there for her , spiritually , emotionally, and any other way that builds trust and security ...I don’t think that with it being “my way or the highway” with “0” tolerance would ever work with my wife as well as my innate posturing to evoke some sense of insecurity in my wife would foster a better sexual relationship either… it was my pride after the personnel attacks that would shut me down that was causing issues and distance...She has her parts in our communication breakdowns and I have mine …I believe we are created in Gods image with the ability to choose our behaviors therefore negating the animal theory...however I am definitely head of the household in the fact I am responsible for reading sharing the bible / prayers every night in our house as well as church/faith formation/my families spiritual growth…I also feel that I am responsible for my spouse and that I should do everything I can to enable her to be the best she can…I should be the leader by example and service like the way Christ loved the church…thank you guys and Trenton for all the posts as we are back on track with our marriage …I hope the original poster lets us know ho he is doing …


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T,
I am right there with you. I strive for 1 and 4. With that said, "meek" is a synonym for humble only when "humble" is being used to mean 2 or 3. In my world humble does NOT equal meek. Humble is good, meek is bad. 

As for being able to apologize - I give you props for admitting that you struggled with that. I have very strong views on apologies. A person who is secure and respects their partner is able to sincerely apologize either in the moment or after they calm down and realize what happened. 

I also think that GFL needs to be really careful. People with years of non-apologies to make up for tend to WAY overcompensate and start apologizing for stuff that they should not. This is REALLY bad. It is actually just as bad as the refusal to admit error. 

A sincere apology based on realization that you made a mistake or hurt someone is a sign of strength, security and fairness. 

A false apology based on the desire to avoid conflict, or to achieve some other goal - like getting laid - is a sign of weakness and is unfair to your partner as it is dishonest. 



MEM11363 said:


> T,
> Humble has several starkly different definitions. Which one you are referring to?
> 
> –adjective
> ...


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## gfl (Aug 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> I am right there with you. I strive for 1 and 4. With that said, "meek" is a synonym for humble only when "humble" is being used to mean 2 or 3. In my world humble does NOT equal meek. Humble is good, meek is bad.
> 
> As for being able to apologize - I give you props for admitting that you struggled with that. I have very strong views on apologies. A person who is secure and respects their partner is able to sincerely apologize either in the moment or after they calm down and realize what happened.
> ...


:iagree:
very well said and i agree 100% i just never apolized for my part sincerley ...but yea you do not want to over do it thats for sure ...given that we both have strong personalites we will most certainly but heads again its just how we react to that ...i really would never apologize period ...and if i did it wasnt at all sincere ...but yea its a big thing with my wife so i have learned ... she is trying as well...thanks again


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> I am right there with you. I strive for 1 and 4. With that said, "meek" is a synonym for humble only when "humble" is being used to mean 2 or 3. In my world humble does NOT equal meek. Humble is good, meek is bad.
> 
> As for being able to apologize - I give you props for admitting that you struggled with that. I have very strong views on apologies. A person who is secure and respects their partner is able to sincerely apologize either in the moment or after they calm down and realize what happened.
> ...


We agree!


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## friendly (Sep 21, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Become mysterious. Schedule some time for yourself - and don't bend. Get out with friends or alone. Find a hobby that will take you away from the house. A physical hobby might be good - relieve stress, improve your physical condition.
> 
> Open up your own checking account and change where you have your check deposited.
> 
> Lack of respect can be fatal. Good luck.


This is a very good suggestion.


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## friendly (Sep 21, 2010)

When a woman doesn't respect you, doesn't care about you and doesn't desire you anymore, she won't put effort in saving the marriage with you, so you know very well what that means?

I don't think your situation here is just a question of "not being enough humble."

When a woman doesn't love a man, no matter how HUMBLE he is, you can't deny "the fact" that she's actually not "your wife" anymore- minds not close and souls apart. 

If so, there's no reason you should continue to support her personal bills. 


If a wife shows that she still loves her husband and is willing to (at least she wants to try) working with you to overcome the difficulties in marriage, there's still hope!

You need a good plan for your future and for your son.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

friendly said:


> When a woman doesn't respect you, doesn't care about you and doesn't desire you anymore, she won't put effort in saving the marriage with you, so you know very well what that means?
> 
> I don't think your situation here is just a question of "not being enough humble."
> 
> ...


Hmmmm....yes, I sort of went on a tangent and got off topic here. I apologize for this. This is good advice here. Humility is nothing without attraction and desire.


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