# We just told our son



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

We just told our 13-year-old son that Dad is moving out in a few weeks and we are getting a divorce. By "just," I mean about an hour ago.

I've known since February that my STBX has been having an affair since last September. He's continued the relationship (it's a long-distance one for now, mercifully - she's in another state) and wants to be with her. We've been married for 25 years, and there was no other infidelity (other than a couple of EAs with OW I suspected him of over the years). Our marriage wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great, either, and I know I have some responsibility for part of its failings.

STBX did the talking - he did the betraying, filing, and now is doing the leaving. He did mention her as one of the reasons why. We agreed to downplay it - it does our son no service to know just what kind of appalling behavior his Dad is capable of. But now he knows that he met her while we were still married and that she's the primary reason why he wants to leave now.

It was extremely hard. He cried, and continued to after we finished telling him. He gave each of us a long hug, and sat with me with his head on my shoulder for a while after his Dad left the room. I did my best to reassure him that his Dad and me are the only ones to blame in this, that he and I are going to be fine financially, that he's still going to see his Dad as often as he'd like to, that we both love him very, very much, are so glad we had him, and so proud of the great kid he is.

Once he had wiped his tears and seemed to be doing OK, his best friend called and invited him to sleep over. I hesitated at first to let him, because I thought he might be too upset or might need some time to absorb it all, ask questions, or be alone. But he said no, he'd really like to go be with his friend. I told him he could certainly talk to him about it if he'd like, or to any of his other friends he'd like to. He said he wasn't going to do that with this friend just yet. This kid is the middle child of three, and his parents' relationship seems pretty solid. He'd probably rather talk to one of his other friends whose parents have divorced, I imagine. This boy's Dad is out of town for the weekend and just his Mom and siblings are home, so I think it might actually be good for him to go have fun with them and take his mind off things for a little while. So he's there for the night (it's just 10 minutes away), and I'm here with STBX. For only three more weeks, thank God. Really tired of living with The Stranger.

Any advice on how to do as much good as I can by my son in the coming weeks/months/years is appreciated.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read up on exposure at Marriage Builders. Never lie to your son about what's happening. That just makes two lying parents instead of "only" one.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Read up on exposure at Marriage Builders. Never lie to your son about what's happening. That just makes two lying parents instead of "only" one.


:iagree:

Your son deserves that one of you is truthful and faithful to him.

Dad wants you to protect him from the truth of his own actions?

Who told him that idea was a good one? :scratchhead:

Oh, yeah. Pedro the talking unicorn.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Reading your thread made me cry. I'm so sorry for what you and your son is going through. I also have a 13 year old son and my husband had an A with my SIL. His cousin is one year younger than him and they were very close so when suddenly his cousin couldn't come over or he couldn't go and spend the night over his cousin's house, I didn't know what to say so I downplayed it saying that Auntie did something awful to mommy. I knew he can feel there was a disconnect between me and his dad because of the way we were behaving and me crying all the time. He kept asking me why I was so sad and I didn't tell him primarily because I didn't want to damage the father/son relationship. It's been 2 years and we're trying to work things out so I don't know if I'll ever tell him. Even after all the damage he's done to our marriage, I'm still protecting his image to his sons. I did a lot of hugging on my children during that time so you have to gage his mood and when this sink in he might not want to be around his dad. Please let him know how much you both love him and just because his parents are divoring does not mean his father loves him less. Now, it's STBX to reach out to his son so his son doesn't feel abandoned. God Bless!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

maritalloneliness said:


> Reading your thread made me cry. I'm so sorry for what you and your son is going through. I also have a 13 year old son and my husband had an A with my SIL. His cousin is one year younger than him and they were very close so when suddenly his cousin couldn't come over or he couldn't go and spend the night over his cousin's house, I didn't know what to say so I downplayed it saying that Auntie did something awful to mommy. I knew he can feel there was a disconnect between me and his dad because of the way we were behaving and me crying all the time. He kept asking me why I was so sad and I didn't tell him primarily because I didn't want to damage the father/son relationship. It's been 2 years and we're trying to work things out so I don't know if I'll ever tell him. Even after all the damage he's done to our marriage, I'm still protecting his image to his sons. I did a lot of hugging on my children during that time so you have to gage his mood and when this sink in he might not want to be around his dad. Please let him know how much you both love him and just because his parents are divoring does not mean his father loves him less. Now, it's STBX to reach out to his son so his son doesn't feel abandoned. God Bless!


Yeah. His father loves him so much he is dumping him and his mother to go lives with someone delightful perfect lady a long, long way away without even a second thought.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Wow, it sounds like your Son took it pretty well, all things considered. How are you holding up? 

I don't have kids, but being honest and upfront about whats going on is always best. Don't talk bad about his father in front of him no matter how tempting.

Keep taking care of yourself. You have been doing really well, it will get better.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. His father loves him so much he is dumping him and his mother to go lives with someone delightful perfect lady a long, long way away without even a second thought.


His father is the one who is going to regret it when his child grows up and becomes a man without being there for him Guarantee, he will have his come to Jesus moment. Don't know how many time I get to see old men dying in the hospital alone and it makes me wonder what they've done not to have anyone care about their welfare. There's a lot of regret on their faces.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

His Dad is staying in town - moving to a house we were renting that is being vacated soon. She is going to move down here - that's the plan currently, anyway.

You're all right - keeping the truth from him is a bad idea. His Dad tried to downplay it (having to admit you're a piece of sh!t to your son is a tough one, eh?), but did say "I met a woman several months ago, we developed a relationship, and yes, I am moving out now like I am because I want to be with her." He left the house after a bit to go take care of some things for his father who lives in town, and then my son asked me, "Do I know her?" I explained to him where and when they met very calmly and that he's seen her one other time since then, and that if they do continue on in this "relationship," she will eventually move down here.

This is the most interesting thing about all the talking my son and I've done tonight since we told him. On the way to his friend's house, he said, "You know what upsets me about this the most? How unfair it is. If he was so unhappy with you for the last two years that he would be doing this now, he should have said something."

Out of the mouths of babes.

His mama didn't raise no fool.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Wow, I feel so much for you. I'm so sorry for what you're going through . 

I have a 14 year old daughter and 12 year old son. We're going through our second break-up. My kids still do not have any clue about the original reason we divorced (his on-going soliciting sex on line and eventually finding it). I've had many people asking why in the world I have not exposed that do them, especially since my daughter blames much of this on me and my temper . I really don't know what the best thing to do it since I think every kid deserves to think their dad hung the moon.....even if he didn't .


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

Stop the nonsense people. You are destroying our kids!
Fix your relationships. Get the help you need.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DoneWithHurting said:


> Stop the nonsense people. You are destroying our kids!
> Fix your relationships. Get the help you need.


Thanks.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Wow, I feel so much for you. I'm so sorry for what you're going through .
> 
> I have a 14 year old daughter and 12 year old son. We're going through our second break-up. My kids still do not have any clue about the original reason we divorced (his on-going soliciting sex on line and eventually finding it). I've had many people asking why in the world I have not exposed that do them, especially since my daughter blames much of this on me and my temper . I really don't know what the best thing to do it since I think every kid deserves to think their dad hung the moon.....even if he didn't .


My Dad left my Mom for another woman when I was 2. She didn't know that was the reason at the time - she found out about a month after he moved out, and that he'd been with her for about a year.

She didn't tell me about this until I was in college, and then, she kind of stumbled into telling me the story because we were watching a cop drama on TV and it was about the "innocent by reason of temporary insanity" plea. She went to my Dad's apartment a month after he left to take him some laundry or some such she'd done for him. The OW answered the door in a towel, laughing, fresh out of the shower. My Mom said, "I had one of those wicker purses women in the late 60s carried. I turned to leave, not saying a word, and almost got out of there, but then, something in me snapped, and I went at her with that purse like a wild animal. I would have killed her if your Dad didn't pull me off of her." I remember being a little annoyed with my Mom that she didn't tell me that for all those years. Of course, she wasn't going to tell me when I was 2. But all those years she was so sad and lost when I was a kid and I'd ask her "What's wrong?" and she'd say "Nothing. I'm fine. Don't worry." I wish she had told me. Not in a vindictive, dramatic way. But just a calm, matter-of-fact one.

Even now, I don't hate my Dad for doing that. He knew later that he'd screwed up, and told me so, and that he always regretted doing that to her.

I think we don't give our kids enough credit for knowing deep down that something bigger is up than what they're being told. You can tell them about their father in an as matter-of-fact and drama-free way as possible - like basically that he's been unfaithful, without going into all the dirty details or trashing his name. It will eventually come out one way or another - it's better that it come out in a calm, measured way, than as the result of someone's (not necessarily your) rage.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> My Dad left my Mom for another woman when I was 2. She didn't know that was the reason at the time - she found out about a month after he moved out, and that he'd been with her for about a year.
> 
> She didn't tell me about this until I was in college, and then, she kind of stumbled into telling me the story because we were watching a cop drama on TV and it was about the "innocent by reason of temporary insanity" plea. She went to my Dad's apartment a month after he left to take him some laundry or some such she'd done for him. The OW answered the door in a towel, laughing, fresh out of the shower. My Mom said, "I had one of those wicker purses women in the late 60s carried. I turned to leave, not saying a word, and almost got out of there, but then, something in me snapped, and I went at her with that purse like a wild animal. I would have killed her if your Dad didn't pull me off of her." I remember being a little annoyed with my Mom that she didn't tell me that for all those years. Of course, she wasn't going to tell me when I was 2. But all those years she was so sad and lost when I was a kid and I'd ask her "What's wrong?" and she'd say "Nothing. I'm fine. Don't worry." I wish she had told me. Not in a vindictive, dramatic way. But just a calm, matter-of-fact one.
> 
> ...


Really great advice. This is exactly what I'm struggling with right now. When I type it out that I don't want my kids to be aware that their dad did not hang the moon, but yet I'm agreeing to them thinking their mom is an angry woman for an unknown reason, it sounds pretty ridiculous . Why should HE get the pass???


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

It's the hardest thing to hold your tongue because all I wanted to do was lash out at him but I didn't want my son's to see me going crazy. I wanted my brother to beat the hell out of him but when the A is revealed I spent a lot of time feeling dazed as if walking in a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from. As far for the R , can't get past the fact the A didn't end because he knew he was hurting me and the family but it ended because they got caught. How much of an attachment could there have been if it was so easy for him to break it off so easily when we found out. He is so passive-aggressive that he doesn't even realize that not saying no when she came on to him was him choosing to betray us.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Sigh. My STBX is back from his father's and is now mad at me for "making him" tell our son about the OW, which we had agreed he should do so that A.) He'd have less reason to blame himself and B.) He'd understand that there was no chance for reconciliation, so he wouldn't have false hopes about that, and C.) It's just not right to lie to your family, because they always find out eventually, and then they hate you even more for lying.

I tried to kindly say to him that our son isn't upset with him about her and all of that, in and of itself. I refrained from telling him why he really is upset with him. He snaps at me, "Can we just stop talking about this right now? I need a break from it. I have to work tomorrow."

Once again: It's all about him. I'm sure he can't wait to call the OW and tell her all about how mean and unsupportive and unfair I am. He probably did that on the way to his Dad's.

I'm sure she commiserated with him about what a b!tch I am. Sucks to be fully exposed, doesn't it? Now you have no hope of easily endearing him to you when you meet him someday, eh? Cry me a fvcking river. I just had to watch my son cry for 30 minutes and rock him like a baby because of you, and this after I listened to my STBX sugar-coat the appalling thing he's done to the point of seeming like he was saying he's sorry, he forgot to get him that video game he wanted. Excuse me if my heart doesn't bleed for you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nomorebeans said:


> Sigh. My STBX is back from his father's and is now mad at me for "making him" tell our son about the OW, which we had agreed he should do so that A.) He'd have less reason to blame himself and B.) He'd understand that there was no chance for reconciliation, so he wouldn't have false hopes about that, and C.) It's just not right to lie to your family, because they always find out eventually, and then they hate you even more for lying.
> 
> I tried to kindly say to him that our son isn't upset with him about her and all of that, in and of itself. I refrained from telling him why he really is upset with him. He snaps at me, "Can we just stop talking about this right now? I need a break from it. I have to work tomorrow."
> 
> ...


"And so you see, son, it's all your mother's fault."

Dear God. You husband makes me want to hurl!


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

Nomorebeans I'm sorry you are going through this. I went through a similar situation a year and half ago but my daughter was 6 at the time. We kept our explanation simple since she was so young but I would like to tell her the truth sooner rather than later. As far as advice goes, try to get along with your STBX as much as possible although it is not always easy. Try to remain united as parents and not pit one against the other. I think your plan to let your son see his father as much as he wants is great. We don't have the traditional visitation and it works well for us. My daughter spends the week with me and usually spends a weekend night with her father and he sees her almost daily. During the summer and winter break she goes back and forth. Another piece of advice-try to respect your STBX(this one is tough for me) because children do what they see. I lost all respect for my ex and my daughter started treating her father like I did (sarcastic, dismissive, etc.) so I quickly had to readjust my attitude. Lastly, give lots of hugs and love.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Nomorebeans, I've been pretty much where you are. It gets better.
My 28 year marriage exploded three years ago, once I discovered that my ex was a serial cheater. He was verbally and emotionally abusive, but I didn't see, or didn't want to see the extent of his cheating. When things were coming to a head I had discovered a few EAs. I stupidly thought if I confronted him and said what you are doing in hurtful and you must stop, that he would. Then one night our then 14 DD came to me and said "Mom, I think Dad is having an affair." She had been using his laptop for homework (with his permission) and he stupidly left all kinds of files open. She got to see some sexting, photos, there were also some skyping sessions. It was pretty hardcore. 

When I told the ex I wanted a divorce I did not say that our 14 year old knows all about his cheating, but it came out later. Our daughter was furious with him and he kept wanting to know why-like getting a divorce, itself, should have been no big deal. Finally, I told him that she knew about his cheating and in typical cheater-mindset, he denied any wrongdoing, I told him he is responsible for his relationship with the kids, I won't protect him and I won't lie for him. Again, in typical cheater-script he went after DD. It was now her fault that we were getting a divorce because "she stuck her nose into his business." And he tried to say to her that I forced him into it because I was a bad wife. Well, she'd have none of that and told him he was responsible for his own behavior. Their fight went downhill from there.

They still have no relationship. We have a younger daughter who eventually discovered what dad was up to. The two of them used to communicate but that has tapered off. He moved to another state and never sees them. Once or twice he called me to ask why our older daughter is mad at him. When I ask if he'd reached out to her in anyway to try to repair the relationship, he would get mad at me and says things like he shouldn't have to, or he's not apologizing for who he is. Great dad material.

For the first year, I told them often, like several times a week that none of this was there fault. When they asked why dad was behaving that way, i reminded them that he has an illness (not the cheating-but he has recurrent major depression) and his choices and decisions aren't always thought out. I don't bad-mouth him, and I don't make excuses for him. 

Would it be better if my kids had a relationship with their father? In a perfect world, sure. When he remains emotionally abusive, and neglectful-they are better off without him.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> We just told our 13-year-old son that Dad is moving out in a few weeks and we are getting a divorce. By "just," I mean about an hour ago.
> 
> I've known since February that my STBX has been having an affair since last September. He's continued the relationship (it's a long-distance one for now, mercifully - she's in another state) and wants to be with her. We've been married for 25 years, and there was no other infidelity (other than a couple of EAs with OW I suspected him of over the years). Our marriage wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great, either, and I know I have some responsibility for part of its failings.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry you're going through this. Just reading it and the part of your boy crying just made me tear up. 

You really have to be watchful of your boy. Your WH is in la-la land with little ms homewrecker so it's going to fall on you to watchful for signs of depression. Boys will hold it in and try to put up a brave front.

Divorce even after the kids are adults affects the kids but when your talking the early teen years, that can lead to rebellion, drugs, and searching for a new family in the sense of hanging with the wrong crowd. 

I'm sending you & your boy some positive energies.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> His Dad is staying in town - moving to a house we were renting that is being vacated soon. She is going to move down here - that's the plan currently, anyway.
> 
> You're all right - *keeping the truth from him is a bad idea. His Dad tried to downplay it (having to admit you're a piece of sh!t to your son is a tough one, eh?)*, but did say "I met a woman several months ago, we developed a relationship, and yes, I am moving out now like I am because I want to be with her." He left the house after a bit to go take care of some things for his father who lives in town, and then my son asked me, "Do I know her?" I explained to him where and when they met very calmly and that he's seen her one other time since then, and that if they do continue on in this "relationship," she will eventually move down here.
> 
> ...


aawww poor douche doesn't want to be the bad guy. Well to bad. Did he think he can come out of this being the good guy? He just destroys his family and 25 year marriage for some homewrecker he's know for a few months. What a selfish [email protected]@rd. The Karma bus will surely make a stop at his place.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate all your advice and support.

What my STBX doesn't (ever) realize is that I'm still protecting him. Last night, he got another chance to blame-shift and feel like he somehow is the victim. I started to tell him that the OW and the affair are not what our son is really upset about, trying to make him feel better (why, I don't know), but I didn't tell him the truth about what he really is upset about because I know it would shatter him.

Saying that "he should have said something" about how unhappy he was years ago wasn't all our son said to me last night. He also said, "What also upsets me is how he just said all that without any sadness, without any emotion, like he's not even sorry about any of it. Like we're all just going to be friends and nothing's going to change." Then he goes, "The trouble with Dad is he thinks everyone else in the world is happy except him and he's getting gipped, when really, it's kind of the other way around. He thinks he's special."

All his words, not mine. I would have loved to jump on the Dad bashing bandwagon, but I knew that would just be more damaging. So I actually defended him and said that even though he doesn't show it, he does feel bad about all this - he hasn't been sleeping, he's had stomach troubles, he had the Shingles in December, etc. He internalizes things because it's hard for him to communicate what's really going on with him. He says, "Yeah. I can see that."

So there STBX goes off on his trip, once again thinking it's all my fault and I'm the bad guy in this movie, because that'll help him feel better about himself, when meanwhile, I'm actually still protecting him. But at least I'm not doing that for his sake anymore. I do want his son to have a good relationship with him, and that won't happen if I badmouth him or treat him dismissively, as much as I'd really, REALLY like to.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Nomore
Stop defending him!
You are essentially lying to your son. Does your H feel bad? You don't honestly know. You'd like to think he does, but his actions speak differently. 

And he is most certainly NOT defending you.

The other thing is that your son is trying to process all this, which is fabulous. Sad that he ever has to, but fabulous. He's talking to you. When STBX gets back from his trip you son needs to talk to him. STBX could continue his blame-shifting in any conversation the two of them have and if you've been covering for dad, who is your son going to believe. Guess I'm saying there is a possibility that the STBX will try to make you the bad guy in your son's eyes, and if you've been defending him he will become confused.

Just be honest. Tell him you are unsure what STBX is thinking. And the best way to determine how STBX feels is to ask him directly. Your H relationship with his children is HIS responsibility and that includes the good things and the bad. It is time he own this.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Thanks, everyone. I appreciate all your advice and support.
> 
> What my STBX doesn't (ever) realize is that I'm still protecting him. Last night, he got another chance to blame-shift and feel like he somehow is the victim. I started to tell him that the OW and the affair are not what our son is really upset about, trying to make him feel better (why, I don't know), but I didn't tell him the truth about what he really is upset about because I know it would shatter him.
> 
> ...



It's honorable that you want to take the high rode so as to not damage his relationship with his father but you shouldn't lie to protect STBXH. Your son will see right through it. In the short term, he's not going to want anything to do with his father. He's instinctively going into protective mode over you. It's a male thing that he can't control. He'll feel he has to step up since dad is stepping down. Your STBXH has to earn that relationship with his son.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> So there STBX goes off on his trip, once again thinking it's all my fault and I'm the bad guy in this movie, because that'll help him feel better about himself, when meanwhile, I'm actually still protecting him. But at least I'm not doing that for his sake anymore. I do want his son to have a good relationship with him, and that won't happen if I badmouth him or treat him dismissively, as much as I'd really, REALLY like to.


First and foremost, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you and your son have to go through this. 

Badmouthing your STBX is far different than telling your son the truth. If the truth sounds bad, then so be it. They're the cold, hard facts. Not your fault. You didn't make the bad decisions, he did. Your son is old enough to know you reap what you sow.

This is an extremely pivotal time in your lives-especially your son's. He sounds very mature and insightful. Your future actions can be crucial here and will shape the way your son thinks about this issue.

I'm not saying to give him the gory details, but don't candy-coat it. If he's asking tough questions you can't answer, tell him to go ask his dad. Put him in the hot seat for once.

QUIT DEFENDING YOUR STBX. You don't want your son, later in life, to lose respect for you because of how you're dealing with this now.

Tune your STBX out. He is persona non grata now. He is your enemy. Let him think what he wants because you both know HE'S WRONG. Sometimes that mere knowledge has to be enough, especially with a narcissist like your STBX.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> First and foremost, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you and your son have to go through this.
> 
> *Badmouthing your STBX is far different than telling your son the truth.* If the truth sounds bad, then so be it. They're the cold, hard facts. Not your fault. You didn't make the bad decisions, he did. Your son is old enough to know you reap what you sow.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Telling the truth is a good thing. Badmouthing is another. Don't confuse the two. So long as kids are age appropriate they should get the truth. If they are younger then I can see waiting till they are older


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> First and foremost, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you and your son have to go through this.
> 
> Badmouthing your STBX is far different than telling your son the truth. If the truth sounds bad, then so be it. They're the cold, hard facts. Not your fault. You didn't make the bad decisions, he did. Your son is old enough to know you reap what you sow.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Your STBX is a Narcissist, he should not be let off the hook for the mess he created.

I hope you are doing OK today. We are here for you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> Sigh. My STBX is back from his father's and is now mad at me for "making him" tell our son about the OW, which we had agreed he should do so that A.) He'd have less reason to blame himself and B.) He'd understand that there was no chance for reconciliation, so he wouldn't have false hopes about that, and C.) It's just not right to lie to your family, because they always find out eventually, and then they hate you even more for lying.
> 
> I tried to kindly say to him that our son isn't upset with him about her and all of that, in and of itself. I refrained from telling him why he really is upset with him. He snaps at me, "Can we just stop talking about this right now? I need a break from it. I have to work tomorrow."
> 
> ...



You hang in there, you and your son will come through this and look back and be glad to get rid of you STBX and his ****ty behaviour. I firmly believe in the adage, "what goes around comes around". it always does. A few years from now you will not be living with this hanging over your head, there are endless possibilities.


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## Chas (Apr 2, 2015)

My parents separated when I was about 10 years old and not a word was said to me or my siblings. I was afraid to ask any questions and when they were together exchanging us it felt like there was a huge elephant in the room. With no conversation all kids have to figure out what is happening is actions and they can be pretty confusing. My older sister had a nervous breakdown at 14 years old during this time. 

Years later I found out my dad had been having an affair with the neighbor lady (he later married her) and that her youngest son was probably his. He was born before the breakup. We consider ourselves brother today but never verified with DNA.

It's only been in my later years that I've figured out how the events affected my view on life and relationships and I believe is the reason that, for many years, as soon as I became close to someone, I rejected them and moved on. I wasn't going to ever let myself get close to someone and get hurt again.

Of course, I'm old and that was how children were treated then, spoken to, but not heard. It is so much better now that parents are concerned about their children enough to worry about their mental state. They have so many questions and what is happening seems like some kind of dream to them and one day they will wake up and everything will be back like it was. Sadly, that doesn't happen.

BTW - I never liked my step mom (neighbor lady) and still today use the 180 on her.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Yes, you're all right, again. Lying is never the answer, and I know there's a difference between telling the truth and bad-mouthing. I intend to do only the former. I've answered his questions about her only with facts, without editorializing with what I think of her, his father, and the whole situation.

I'm doing better today. Talked with my son who is still over at his friend's - I'll be picking him up soon. He asked if he could stay a little longer to go play basketball with his friend and a few others at the park/club in his community. He said he had a fun night with his friend last night and thanked me for letting him go over there and spend the night. And at the end of the call, he said, "I love you, Mom."

So I feel good knowing that he's doing OK. He has always been resilient this way, because he gets it out the second it starts hurting and expresses how he's feeling very well. We've had two dogs since he was born. They were both rescues and were adult dogs when we adopted them. They have both died in the last three years - one just last June, both 10 or under when it happened - both cancer. He was heartbroken both times. But he cried openly and talked about what they meant to them and how he felt about losing them, and got it all out when he had to. After a few days, he bounced back and carried on.

This will of course be a much harder loss and change for him, but I'm hopeful that he won't be afraid to tell me exactly how he's feeling whenever it bothers him. He has always been upfront with his feelings and opinions, and very justice-oriented. He's confronted good friends when he thought they were saying bigoted, ignorant, or insensitive things about other people. He basically doesn't put up with any B.S., and he doesn't hide his feelings.

I will be watchful, though, for him retreating into himself too much, and make sure he knows he can tell me anything - even if he thinks it might upset me or hurt my feelings.

And, I will tune out the STBX. That's not hard to do, now, because I finally, finally see him for what he really is - a narcissist to such an extreme that he's very nearly a sociopath. Incapable not just of empathy, but of sympathy, too (his first wife to whom he was only married for 18 months had a long-term affair with one of his co-workers, and ended up marrying the guy). In short, he is a cold-hearted snake, and I'm either an idiot or a saint or a little bit of both (but mostly an idiot) for staying with him for as long as I have. But I don't regret it, even so, because I got my son out of it. And he's the best person I know - I'd do it all again 10 times over to have him here.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Chas said:


> My parents separated when I was about 10 years old and not a word was said to me or my siblings. I was afraid to ask any questions and when they were together exchanging us it felt like there was a huge elephant in the room. With no conversation all kids have to figure out what is happening is actions and they can be pretty confusing. My older sister had a nervous breakdown at 14 years old during this time.
> 
> Years later I found out my dad had been having an affair with the neighbor lady (he later married her) and that her youngest son was probably his. He was born before the breakup. We consider ourselves brother today but never verified with DNA.
> 
> ...


I never liked my stepmom, either - and she wasn't even the woman my Dad left my Mom for. But she was so different from my Mom in every way, it made me wonder what my Dad ever saw in either of them. (I know what he saw in my Mom, but I never have figured out what he saw in my stepmom, unless it's that it turns out he really liked short, fat women who look like boys, and other than that, have no socially redeeming personality features whatsoever.)

Yes, they definitely didn't tell us boo when we were kids - no wonder my brothers and I were all sure at various times that it must have been our fault.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Just be honest. Tell him you are unsure what STBX is thinking. And the best way to determine how STBX feels is to ask him directly. Your H relationship with his children is HIS responsibility and that includes the good things and the bad. It is time he own this.


Excellent point. I tend to want to solve all my son's problems for him, to over-compensate for feeling all alone in all of that as a kid. So I answer for his Dad and end up trying to protect both of them.

I need to just say, "My honey, I'm afraid I can't speak for your father on that one. You should ask him that question."

And I know my son will.


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## Chas (Apr 2, 2015)

Based on your description of your son, and his no BS straight forward manner I think he's going to handle his Dad just fine. No matter what you say he knows there's some of your opinion or feelings in your answer. I have a feeling he's going to ask his Dad some really tough questions.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I agree, don't feel like you need to control the narrative to protect your son's feelings. He is going to need to process this...and being at a place to talk things out is a rarity for kids...so just listen and follow with hugs when he makes a reflective statement that could be painful to him.

I also want to warn against relying on son for too much emotional support...as many mothers can when father disappears. This is a responsibility that he shouldn't bear...and will hurt him when he tries to exert some independence, yet is burdened by guilt that he may be abandoning his mom. I am not saying at all that I am sensing this from your posts...just saying I have seen this a lot while working with troubled teens.

Also be prepared for when he may start getting angry. Don't try to put a lid on it...just set boundaries and call his dad. If relationship with dad is blown, then find some sort of male mentorship program where he can constructively vent his anger.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Have you considered having your son do a couple of sessions with a good children's therapist? It might help him tremendously. Or perhaps attend a support group for children who's parents are going through a divorce or have divorced.

Also, I recommend you google "Toxic parents pdf", it's a great book available online for free. It might help you understand the effects of your stbxh's toxicity on your son and thus help you to help your son.

Best wishes


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

He asked me yesterday if his Dad would still be leaving in two weeks if it wasn't for her. I happen to know that she's been driving this whole thing since they first met and got together, so I said, "I've basically asked your Dad that same question, and he's said no, he wouldn't be."

He came over and hugged me for a long time, even though I didn't get very emotional about it. And then he seemed OK. I asked him if he wanted to ask any more questions and told him I'd always tell him the truth if he did, and he could feel free to ask me anything.

He said, "I have some questions I want to ask Dad, actually."

So Chas, you're right - he's already planning to ask him the tough questions. He has never been afraid to speak his mind to either of us, and I told him on Friday night that's one of my most favorite things about him - how open and brave he is about sharing his feelings.

I'd kind of like to be a fly on the wall to watch his Dad squirm when he asks him, but then I'd kind of not want to be there, because I'm fairly sure he'll sugarcoat, blame-shift, and flat out lie if he feels cornered enough. He's having a hard time - harder than any of the rest of us - having to see the love of his life - himself - as he really is.

I told my son it's good that he wants to ask his Dad questions and he should. But he can also talk to me afterwards and any time, if anything his Dad ever says about it all is confusing or makes him feel bad.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

One piece of advice, don't ask him what his father says when they speak. Of course, you can always say you're there for him if he wants to talk, but try not to ask what dad actually said. Your son is fabulous, well done Mom! He is on the start of a journey and all you can do is offer support. You can't fix this.

How are you holding up?


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Nomorebeans I'm so sorry for what you and your son are having to go through. You hear a lot about how kids handle this at different ages. At least at 13 there really aren't any facts that he can't handle. Mine are young and so I have to dance around the truth so as to be age appropriate. 
This next part where your stbx does the blame shifting is obviously going to be galling. Hang in there and keep to the high road.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You are too nice and polite, if my husband of 25 years left me for another women my kids and his and my family members would know about it. I wouldn't hide it from anyone, especially my children. He is the bad guy and he is being selfish for leaving you and his child. I would want our children to know that. There is no reason to keep it a secret, they would find out eventually.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Nmb. You are doing fine.

One thing that sets judges off fast is actively not being a good coparent.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> One piece of advice, don't ask him what his father says when they speak. Of course, you can always say you're there for him if he wants to talk, but try not to ask what dad actually said. Your son is fabulous, well done Mom! He is on the start of a journey and all you can do is offer support. You can't fix this.
> 
> How are you holding up?


Good advice, Pluto. I had to resist asking him that tonight. They went to the gym together. I asked him how it went afterwards, and he said they'd talked about things a little bit, but not much. 

My son decided to get a vastly different haircut today. He's been wearing it kind of longish, but he got it cut to nearly a buzz cut. It turned out great and looks really good on him, so he's happy about it. (Phew. That could have gone the other way, for sure.). He's eating better today - he hardly ate anything yesterday.

So I feel relieved that he's doing better today - I even heard him laugh at something a friend on the phone said, and that was music to my ears. But it's hard for me now that STBX is back from his work trip. The same old sadness of knowing he's just biding his time for the next two weeks until he can move out is back. He at least isn't giving me attitude like he was Friday night about telling DS about his affair, not that I should care.

I was hoping that things will get better when he's gone for good, and they probably will eventually. But I'm starting to dread it because the first month or so is really gonna suck out loud.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> Good advice, Pluto. I had to resist asking him that tonight. They went to the gym together. I asked him how it went afterwards, and he said they'd talked about things a little bit, but not much.
> 
> My son decided to get a vastly different haircut today. He's been wearing it kind of longish, but he got it cut to nearly a buzz cut. It turned out great and looks really good on him, so he's happy about it. (Phew. That could have gone the other way, for sure.). He's eating better today - he hardly ate anything yesterday.
> 
> ...


NMB, you have only two weeks to get through till he is gone, it may be difficult at first but it will be like a breath of fresh air. You have your son with you and a great future ahead, don't for one minute think that you wont be able to do this. Then do the 180 hard on your WS, I suspect he might want to come back, they often do, do not let him have any more power over you. You are doing well, keep it up! Big hugs (I'm British and not much into hugging, but wanted to give you one!)


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Thanks, everyone. I appreciate all your advice and support.
> 
> What my STBX doesn't (ever) realize is that I'm still protecting him. Last night, he got another chance to blame-shift and feel like he somehow is the victim. I started to tell him that the OW and the affair are not what our son is really upset about, trying to make him feel better (why, I don't know), but I didn't tell him the truth about what he really is upset about because I know it would shatter him.
> 
> ...


NMB I am really sorry you are going through this. You have to deal with your own pain and at the same time look after the feelings, thoughts and paradigm of your son. What pile of sh*t you WH has dumped into your life. You don't deserve it nor does your son. You seem to be dealing with your own feelings and life constructively, I'm glad. You seem to be handling things with your son in an admirable and decent manner. I don't think you should defend or explain your WH's behavior or feelings. His behavior is inexplicable and nobody but him (especially not you) knows or understands WH's feelings (not your concern anymore). If you can find a way within your 180 you should share your son's questions/feelings/complaints about his father with his father. It's probably a good idea to ask your son first if that is OK. I commend you for not bashing or complaining. I can't tell you how important that is. My mother did that with my father and it really messed me up. Your son seems perceptive and intelligent, ask him if he is just sharing how he feels or if he thinks it should be addressed. In not bashing you can share that you are hurt and disappointed while still reminding your son his father loves him. Provide reassurance that although it's not going to be the same or an everybody is friends situation that *you* and his father both love him and are going to do what it takes to cooperate in taking care of him and letting him get that love from both of you. Again so sorry for your situation and pain and best of luck.


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

:gun:


Nomorebeans said:


> *a narcissist to such an extreme that he's very nearly a sociopath.*


WOW that really resounds with me.


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I was hoping that things will get better when he's gone for good, and they probably will eventually. But I'm starting to dread it because the first month or so is really gonna suck out loud.


You might be surprised. Perhaps the loud sucking you have been experiencing will go away and leave some peace and contentment. I hope so.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi.
This realy resonated with me. I would describe this as the worst point of the whole break up. I am five years on now. Yes, five years. I rarely post but wanted to pass on some of the things I learnt along the way.
*
The relationship between your son and his Father must stand or fall on its own.*

This is perhaps the hardest to do.
In a nutshell that is what will stick for him. He can say what he likes, he can promise and cajole but your son will (sooner or later) relaize that he was not put first. This will be horribly painful for him; and for you.

*Be there*.
he is a teenager and teenagers feign disinterest and independence as they get older. They are still little kids too needing you to be twice as reliable, twice as dependable and twice as understanding as you were before. This is exhausting.

*Actively build your new family*
This is new traditions, new rules and new freedoms. Your Son is going to grow up fast. Do things that are different that you want to do. 

*Look after yourself*
The drugs will help with detachment and let you do the things you need to do to stay healthy and build a new life. eat well too, change your diet to things you like and eat at different times. 

*Learn to block your Ex out*
At various stages he will be nice to you, ignore you, verbally abuse you, then be nice to you again.
i used to count the number of "I's when she was talking. This blocked out the message and also served to remind me who it was really about!


*Will it work out?*
Yes. It will. For you and your son. The faster you remove contact with your Ex the better.
As a matter of course do not reply to his texts for one hour.
Never answer the phone. call back when it is convenient to you.
apart from driving him insane it also serves to remind yourself that he is not that important anymore 

What about your Ex?
He may or may not regret this. he may or may not cry in front of you. he may or may not (probably will) want to come back some time later. 
never forget why he did this to you, and more importantly your child.

Because he wanted to.

Five years on I would not go back if you paid me a million million trillion dollars.


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

This is so sad it made me tear up. Your son is right is not fair. 

At least your stbx did the talking. My WW left it to me to explain to our son.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Foolish Man said:


> You might be surprised. Perhaps the loud sucking you have been experiencing will go away and leave some peace and contentment. I hope so.


I sure hope you're right, FM. I'd like to think the worst of it is behind me, because I've certainly had some of the darkest days of my life, and I've had post-partum depression and not felt as dark as a couple of those days. There's a song by Lifehouse called "Broken" that makes me weep just to think of it, because every word resonates. The ones I try to hold on to are these "In the pain... there is healing."

When I start to feel bad about or for myself, which happens more often than it should, I think of what I've managed to accomplish while all of this has been going on. Some friends say they're amazed I have even continued to function, let alone not miss any work or deadlines, lose 15 pounds, or quit drinking. I have to remind myself of that when the dark voice tries to take over.

Thanks, too, for your kind words about the situation with my son. I was fortunate when my parents divorced that neither of them ever bad-mouthed the other to me (which must have been especially hard for my mother, because my Dad left her for another woman when I was 2). That really has made all the difference in all my interactions with friends and coworkers and love interests to follow, and so I plan to keep following their example in that as closely as I can.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jin said:


> This is so sad it made me tear up. Your son is right is not fair.
> 
> At least your stbx did the talking. My WW left it to me to explain to our son.


*Undoubtedly because she didn't have the guts to face him!*


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

ing said:


> As a matter of course do not reply to his texts for one hour. Never answer the phone. call back when it is convenient to you. apart from driving him insane it also serves to remind yourself that he is not that important anymore
> 
> What about your Ex?
> He may or may not regret this. he may or may not cry in front of you. he may or may not (probably will) want to come back some time later. never forget why he did this to you, and more importantly your child.
> ...



I liked all of your post, but these parts resonated the most. I do tend, even now, to be too readily available to him. He has definitely been spoiled (on a number of levels). I will plan to not respond to his texts for at least an hour, I'd say "as long as they aren't urgent," but they never are. And I know it drives him nuts that he can't readily reach his sister whenever he calls her. She works in the medical profession, so guess what? She's busy. But he thinks everyone must consider a call from him to be a gift from the gods. She does always call back - when she's not working or busy. Time for me to do the same.

My son already asked me if I would take his Dad back right now if he said he was wrong, he didn't want to be with the other woman after all, and he still loved me and wanted to work on the marriage. (Yes, he is already asking some really tough questions.) I was careful so as not to be too negative, but I told him that much as I wish we could still be like we seemed to be before and all stay together, especially for his sake, I'd have to say no. No, because I could never trust him again, and it wouldn't be right for him to have parents who continue to live together when that trust, and really, the friendship that was based on it, are gone. He thought about it for several seconds and then said "Good. I wouldn't want you to."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nomorebeans said:


> I liked all of your post, but these parts resonated the most. I do tend, even now, to be too readily available to him. He has definitely been spoiled (on a number of levels). I will plan to not respond to his texts for at least an hour, I'd say "as long as they aren't urgent," but they never are. And I know it drives him nuts that he can't readily reach his sister whenever he calls her. She works in the medical profession, so guess what? She's busy. But he thinks everyone must consider a call from him to be a gift from the gods. She does always call back - when she's not working or busy. Time for me to do the same.
> 
> My son already asked me if I would take his Dad back right now if he said he was wrong, he didn't want to be with the other woman after all, and he still loved me and wanted to work on the marriage. (Yes, he is already asking some really tough questions.) I was careful so as not to be too negative, but I told him that much as I wish we could still be like we seemed to be before and all stay together, especially for his sake, I'd have to say no. No, because I could never trust him again, and it wouldn't be right for him to have parents who continue to live together when that trust, and really, the friendship that was based on it, are gone. He thought about it for several seconds and then said "Good. I wouldn't want you to."


You could say to your husband: "You seem to think that your calls are like a gift from the gods. Well, guess what? As far as you and your calls are concerned, I'm an atheist, now."


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I think instituting the minimum one hour rule in responding to calls/texts is brilliant!:lol: 

You said he is a narcissist, that is the perfect treatment for him. I love that suggestion.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> He thought about it for several seconds and then said "Good. I wouldn't want you to."


What a wonderful young man you've raised! You should be SO PROUD of him. I am, and he's not even mine lol.

Great job!!!! You're doing fabulous. Hang in there.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> My son already asked me if I would take his Dad back right now if he said he was wrong, he didn't want to be with the other woman after all, and he still loved me and wanted to work on the marriage. (Yes, he is already asking some really tough questions.) I was careful so as not to be too negative, but I told him that much as I wish we could still be like we seemed to be before and all stay together, especially for his sake, I'd have to say no. No, because I could never trust him again, and it wouldn't be right for him to have parents who continue to live together when that trust, and really, the friendship that was based on it, are gone. He thought about it for several seconds and then said "Good. I wouldn't want you to."


Your son seems to be perceptive and grounded, especially for a 13 year old. At least that it one thing going well. Stay there for him.

If I was you, one small thing I would ask him is "Was the new hair cut a break with the past?" Fine if it is. He may want a sign that this is a new day and he is moving forward. Tell him he doesn't need to be the man of the household or take the world on his shoulders. Let him take time and be a child. 

Maybe a new haircut would be good for you.

Your new family is him and you. Look after your new family.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

DoneWithHurting said:


> Stop the nonsense people. You are destroying our kids!
> Fix your relationships. Get the help you need.


Get your head out of your ass. That was ignorant and arrogant of you to post.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

The OP was so sad to read. Heartbreaking.

Your stbxh sounds like a real piece of work. Good riddance, I say.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

This breaks my heart. My son is 30 years old. A friend of his saw OW in the truck with my H & told him. This was 2 weeks after d-day. He called & ask me what was going on. I will never forget that call as long as I live. I started telling him what I had found out as gently as possible, But I started to cry. I told him to give me a minute & I would call him back, "As he had caught me off guard". He said to me Please don't hang up Mom, I'm here for you & this 30 year old grown man cried like a child. We held the phone & cried together for at least 5 minutes before we could talk again. Me & my H decided to R so I was totally honest with my son, Without talking down on his Dad. It's very hard not to lash out when you're hurting so bad. I think you did a great job in how you handled things with your son & he will respect you both more for being up front with him. After all this will affect his life too. I'm so sorry for what you're going through & wish you the best of luck..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Healer said:


> Get your head out of your ass. That was ignorant and arrogant of you to post.


:iagree:


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Healer said:


> The OP was so sad to read. Heartbreaking.
> 
> Your stbxh sounds like a real piece of work. Good riddance, I say.


You're right, Healer. He is. Do you know - a good friend took me aside when we had been married for five years and told me she thought I deserved better than him - that he was a narcissist, everything was all about him, and I should be with someone who appreciates me and treats me like a queen, or at least not like one of the servants. I resented her for saying those things for a long time. I should really call her and tell her she was right, and apologize for not respecting her opinion.

But if I had listened to her, and others, like some family members (my Dad and both my brothers) who told me similar things, I wouldn't have my son now. My Mom said something like that when I asked her if she ever regretted marrying my Dad - now I know fully what she meant.

He asked tonight how I found out about the OW - if I knew about his Dad going to see her before or after the fact. I told him that whole story, trying not to editorialize too much. He was pretty upset about his lying like he did and said he's lost a lot of respect for him. I just told him, "So have I." I can predict his next question: Would he have told me about her if I didn't find out like I did before he moved out? I know the answer, but I'm going to suggest he ask his Dad that one.


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