# Update. She broke the silence.



## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Well, today I got the text message I've been dreading, but it hasn't turned out so bad. My wife sent a text randomly saying that she doesn't hate me, but doesn't want a relationship with me and found a place. She's hopeful that we can be friends maybe in the future and go do things together some day. We'll need to be cordial for the sake of my son, so I'm glad that she is at least receptive to the possibility of being friends. 

I was very humble with my response, and didn't fight her. I told her that I think the world of her, and that I would help in any way I could with moving or whatever. I still hate this to death, but it's sinking in more and more that she just does not want to be with me, and I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. She doesn't even want anything. She's taking her clothes, and some basics. That's it. It's going to be simple and clean. 

So, that really sucks. That being said, I'm ok and staying focused on myself. I'm really happy for her that she has found her independence and is moving towards the life she wants, whatever that may be. I truly hope she finds happiness, but I won't mind if one day she regrets not taking the chance to see the man I will become. I absolutely refuse to lose. Being brutally honest with myself, by the time I accomplish my goals, and I will... I don't know if I'm going to want her back anymore. 

I have to learn to have some self-worth. I made some bad mistakes, but I can't take them back now, and I can't let them drag me down the way I brought her down. I'm my own worst enemy. I have to quit that. Nonetheless, the fact is that she isn't willing to see me through this. I have to stop caring so much about people who don't care enough about me. I don't blame her for one second, but even the prospect of me becoming a truly changed man doesn't excite her, and my hurdle now is to stop caring about her so much... Therein lies my biggest challenge. Not even sure how to do that. Emotions should come with an app and lots of options.

Really, the only thing that can cure me is time, I'm sure. Long, hard time. I'm going to be in a prison of sorts. But, I'm going to work hard, get good time served off my sentence, and go out and get what I deserve in this world. If my wife would have never betrayed me the first time, I know we'd have been an amazing couple. We were anyway at times, but nothing like we could have been. I really need a rock in my life. I need someone who won't betray me even once. I'll know how to avoid my anger issues and make much better choices regardless going forward, but I'm hoping for something optimal. Most importantly, I'm going to become the confident person I once was and then some. I'm going to be sure that I will make someone lucky to have me one day, and I'll be sure to remember how lucky I am to have them. 

I hit a milestone today in my anger management. It's kind of crazy. 5 days ago or so, I started making my "anger ID map." If you don't know what that is, you start from the beginning of your life and try to make a timeline of significant events that caused your anger or triggered it. So, I did that, and had quite a lot of reflection about how my reaction only ever brought me more pain. The funny thing is though, I completely neglected something that should have been obvious to me. I honestly don't even know what triggered the thought, but I remembered something late last night that just came to my thoughts from nowhere, and I think that my behavior has been learned to some degree. The problem is, I learned it from the man I think most of in the world.. My dad. 

My mother and father divorced when I was three years old. My mother cheated on my father. It was bitter at times between them. You can imagine, I have been sensitive about cheating and betrayal my whole life. I hate it. It's so pointless. Anyway, that's the first thing on my ID map. What I omitted from my map was something that I think I have kind of repressed over the years. I think I did that, because my dad is really the only person who never betrayed me in my life. The only one. I never wanted to think of him as being wrong or acting out of character without good reason. He was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 17 and robbed of his dream to go in the Air Force. He died when I was 24. He had it as bad as a diabetic can have it throughout his 30+ year struggle. 

But here's the issue. My sister and I would go stay with my dad every other weekend. On occasion, my dad's mom would come over to visit with us. Instantly, my dad would become very angry. He was always so hateful towards her, if he would say a word at all. Often times, he would just sit there looking mad and completely ignore her. I never fully understood why he was like that. I asked a few times, but he didn't want to spoil our view of her. He never explained it to me at all. After he died, my uncle later told me that my grandmother was pretty much crazy while they were growing up. She apparently jumped out of a car moving at 50+ miles an hour because my dad and his brothers "didn't love her enough." 

Long story short, my dad had a lot of unresolved anger issues. You wouldn't have known it.. He was a genuinely caring person until you crossed him. Once you did, he NEVER let go of a grudge. He disowned his best friend of 16 years, because he didn't show up to Thanksgiving dinner one year. He said he was coming, and then didn't come or call. That was it. They never spoke again. As much as I loved my dad, I'm realizing that he never really explained much of anything to me. I will always worship him, but I have to realize that I was set up to fail. It was a different world then, where dad's didn't have much responsibility to their kids in a divorce situation. He just kind of expected us to follow his examples, and we did, as long as we were with him. Disappointing him was like a knife right through your heart. We just didn't see him enough, and when we did, he just never really gave us much guidance. He was sick. We didn't expect it, but we needed it. 

Anyway, I'm sorry to chew your ear off, it just helps me to write it all out. I got my car today, and have realized so much in yet another 24 hours. I'm not a mess like I thought I would be when she told me she found a place. I know I have to stay strong and let her go. So, it's not so bad. I'm going to do me just like she's doing her. I must. Thank you all again. You have been so supportive and helpful. I know some lows are coming, but I'm ready. No time to waste, right?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

LWH, glad to see that you are doing some self reflection and going to get the help you need. A counsellor can help you explore your past and the triggers for your anger.
Betrayal is difficult on the most stable of persons, your wife's cheating already laid the foundation for the mistrust and anger. That is not to say you are still responsible for yourself.
The best thing you can do is work on becoming a better man and then give you heart to someone who will take care of it. There are plenty of women out there who will not cheat on you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why would you entertain the notion of helping her or trying to be friends with her?

You can be adequate or even great co-parents without being friends.

Do not allow her to rely on you to get her emotional needs met. She needs something done? Politely...no. she wants a shoulder to cry on? Politely...no. or more cynically...Sorry, but you fired me.

Can you imagine the look on your future girlfriend's face when you tell her that you're going to help your ex-wife move something? Or that you have to listen to your next wife vent about her day?

Not only that, but I think this ties into your self worth as well.

The single best thing you can do is cut her out of your life for every function but what is absolutely necessary for co-parenting.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Why would you entertain the notion of helping her or trying to be friends with her?
> 
> You can be adequate or even great co-parents without being friends.
> 
> ...


Agreed. She doesn't get to be friends with you. It will make it harder to move on, and she will take advantage of you.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> the single best thing you can do is cut her out of your life for every function but what is absolutely necessary for co-parenting.


qfmft


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Why would you entertain the notion of helping her or trying to be friends with her?
> 
> You can be adequate or even great co-parents without being friends.
> 
> ...


Wow, Far. I don't understand this response.

This man doesn't hate his wife. He knows that they were both wrong about a lot of things, but then she reached a breaking point and left, and he knows exactly how he helped her reach that point. He did not want her to reach it, but it was too late when it happened.

They loved each other at one time. Why the heck couldn't they be friends? Especially if they are able to disentangle themselves without a lot of drama and bloodshed.

As a child of divorced parents, I wish like hell my parents could have been *friends*. I never cared that they were divorced, I understood why it had to happen. But what bugged me as a child was that they could not be *friends* or even friendly toward each other after divorce, which put me in the middle of their tension and coldness. And all I could think was "hey this isn't fair to ME, you know, the little person you CREATED when you LOVED each other, but now I'm supposed to feel the chill of your contempt for each other for the rest of MY life? Thanks a LOT!" 

In a case like this one, why would he go so hammer hard on her and refuse her friendship later on if it can get to that point? I mean yeah if things turn really ugly during the divorce, it can be hard to salvage any kind of friendship. Or if his heart is still too broken to face the ex and be friends without it hurting him over and over. But as it stands right now, there is no reason to suggest he refuse to ever be her friend.

I am still friends with my ex. He was my kids' step-dad for over 12 years. They still have a good relationship with him, too. The guy I was dating was what you could consider friends with his ex, even though she cheated on him and drug him through the gutter. It has just been so long now that he has moved on and "she is who she is and she did what she did" and now he just doesn't care. He just cares about his children and he cares about her as their mother, and is friendly to her and (gasp!) even helps her move stuff sometimes!! And I didn't even freak out about that! (sarcasm, sorry) 

There are divorces that a friendship can be salvaged from, it happens all the time. I am not saying this case is shut and closed, it may not be a divorce. But I'm really shocked you would advise this way, and so bluntly. Is his love for her not apparent?


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Herschel said:


> qfmft


I had to google that.

Man, I am so behind the times. :frown2:


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You may find that at least some of your "anger issues" may suddenly disappear for a long while. But know that the ability to lose your temper is still there. 
Sometimes, a lot of anger is not necessarily a bad thing when you are wronged. But you've seen thathow you release it causes more pain in most cases if it's unrestrained.
I've learned how to restrain mine, but it's taken many years.
And it's still there and needs constant restraint, Vigilance. I have to always catch myself when feeling it come on.

Your happiness will come back. You don't need her to be happy. 
Time will help tremendously, but acceptance which you seem to be finding is the key. I think a lot of people never completely accept that the part of their life is over, and that it's not a bad thing totally.
Those people suffer!
Glad you're not wanting to be one of those.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Agreed. She doesn't get to be friends with you. It will make it harder to move on, and she will take advantage of you.


Did I miss something? What did she do that makes you say she will take advantage of him? He has said she is somewhat of a doormat. It sounds like her escape plan doesn't include any kind of drama or asking for things that are unreasonable. It sounds like she wants to quietly end this (though I'm not saying it is over, it is yet to be seen).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lost - it sounds to me like you are doing everything very well. The self reflection and courage you are showing is awesome. Keep doing it. But also be open for changes in the future. A divorce takes awhile. Maybe there is a chance you two can come back toward each other before that happens.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Because trying to remain friends with her will set him up for huge regressing and falling back into the quagmire of hoping she will be more than just a friend one day. If she isn't cheating AGAIN and just wants out, years down the road they might be friends or aqusintances. Right now he should consider her as someone to completely avoid, so that he can heal.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Right now he should consider her as someone to completely avoid, *so that he can heal.*


Completely agree.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Because trying to remain friends with her will set him up for huge regressing and falling back into the quagmire of hoping she will be more than just a friend one day. If she isn't cheating AGAIN and just wants out, years down the road they might be friends or aqusintances. Right now he should consider her as someone to completely avoid, so that he can heal.


As I said, if he can't be around her without wanting to chase her or be heart broken, then yes they should distance for now.

But I don't understand Far's hard hammer approach. Why be cold to her when they speak? Even if he can't be her friend right now for his own reasons, he can say that like a man who actually still loves her, because that is what he is. He can say "I'm sorry I won't really be able to be there for you like that right now, because I'm having to keep myself above water and try to move forward with this thing". Or he can even be more honest and say "in my heart I still wish for a reconciliation, so it would just hurt too much to be your friend right now while I go through this". Being all snippy and mean during exchanges doesn't help either of them heal, and she doesn't deserve it, based on anything I've read. That's why I asked if I had missed something.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did I miss something? What did she do that makes you say she will take advantage of him? He has said she is somewhat of a doormat. It sounds like her escape plan doesn't include any kind of drama or asking for things that are unreasonable. It sounds like she wants to quietly end this (though I'm not saying it is over, it is yet to be seen).


I meant in the way that some women take advantage of the men they've "friendzoned." He'll end up having to do "honey do" stuff. 

I don't mean that she'll do it intentionally or maliciously. But you get used to having a man around for certain things, and old habits are hard to break. If she's a doormat, then she's going to have a hard time adjusting to being on her own, and he doesn't want to get sucked in.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

rockon said:


> I had to google that.
> 
> Man, I am so behind the times. :frown2:


Did you find it? I made it up, though, I am sure others obviously used it before me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I meant in the way that some women take advantage of the men they've "friendzoned." He'll end up having to do "honey do" stuff.
> 
> I don't mean that she'll do it intentionally or maliciously. But you get used to having a man around for certain things, and old habits are hard to break. If she's a doormat, then she's going to have a hard time adjusting to being on her own, and he doesn't want to get sucked in.


When my ex and I split up, we had to face the music and just get sheet done. We HAD to help each other with many things. There were certain things no one else can help you with but the other spouse. That time was very difficult for both of us emotionally and we did distance at that time. But we still had to meet to work certain things out, swap stuff, do paperwork, all of those ugly things that you must suck up and do once you've made the decisions. 

Yet even though we were distanced during that time, we were always kind and loving and dignified toward one another. We both suffered so much from the break up, and so not only did we hurt so much for ourselves, we hurt so much for each other, too! And yet, we couldn't really emotionally lean on each other...it hurt too damn much. 

Later, after we individually dealt with our own pain about the break up....we were able to start emotionally supporting each other again. Now I am back to considering him my best friend in the world...the one who has done the most for me (and vice versa)...the one who never wanted anything but the best for me (and vice versa) even if that meant breaking up. 

There is still a lot of emotion between us, and we continue to work through the parts of it that are "safe" to share with each other, without distancing now. We are truly healing and accepting our past, and our present as friends who loved each other dearly once.

Lost's story doesn't sound totally hopeless to me. If they can both work on themselves and get a little more space...if they can find a middle ground again to talk, after the dust settles a little....then maybe....


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> As I said, if he can't be around her without wanting to chase her or be heart broken, then yes they should distance for now.
> 
> But I don't understand Far's hard hammer approach. Why be cold to her when they speak? Even if he can't be her friend right now for his own reasons, he can say that like a man who actually still loves her, because that is what he is. He can say "I'm sorry I won't really be able to be there for you like that right now, because I'm having to keep myself above water and try to move forward with this thing". Or he can even be more honest and say "in my heart I still wish for a reconciliation, so it would just hurt too much to be your friend right now while I go through this". Being all snippy and mean during exchanges doesn't help either of them heal, and she doesn't deserve it, based on anything I've read. That's why I asked if I had missed something.


Because it doesn't work like that. She is cutting her husband out of her life. He needs to cut her out of his. CUTTING is not a gentle process. He is hurting. She is not-- she's detached. Any "friendship" with him will just be for her own benefit, not his. He needs to be cold and short with her for a long time until he heals. No room for pleasantries that will confuse him and leave him wondering if she's softening toward him.

He needs to cut her off! No emotional support, honeydo's, friendly chats, or pleasantries of any kind.
She's doing what she needs.
He needs to stop worrying about her period.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Because it doesn't work like that. She is cutting her husband out of her life. He needs to cut her out of his. CUTTING is not a gentle process. *He is hurting. She is not-- she's detached*. Any "friendship" with him will just be for her own benefit, not his. He needs to be cold and short with her for a long time until he heals. No room for pleasantries that will confuse him and leave him wondering if she's softening toward him.
> 
> He needs to cut her off! No emotional support, honeydo's, friendly chats, or pleasantries of any kind.
> She's doing what she needs.
> He needs to stop worrying about her period.


Just because she's detached doesn't mean she isn't hurting. He knows she is hurting. They both are.

I see zero reason why these two should not be kind and loving toward each other in this process. And again...if things go south, if she makes everything hell, if she is already cheating...then yes, he should distance completely. But if she is just done (and he knows the reasons why she is) then why be literally cold to her? If she is not cold to him? What if she doesn't try to lean on him, and instead she shows incredible strength and does what is right for herself. Why wouldn't they still be able to love each other and want what is best for each other, just because they both screwed it up and had to let go?

He has not described a cold woman who is playing with his heart. If he was, I wouldn't be saying these things at all. I completely support people distancing and even being cold when the circumstances warrant it. But not all circumstances do.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

lost_without_her said:


> Well, today I got the text message I've been dreading, but it hasn't turned out so bad. My wife sent a text randomly saying that she doesn't hate me, but doesn't want a relationship with me and found a place. She's hopeful that we can be friends maybe in the future and go do things together some day. We'll need to be cordial for the sake of my son, so I'm glad that she is at least receptive to the possibility of being friends.
> 
> I was very humble with my response, and didn't fight her. I told her that I think the world of her, and that I would help in any way I could with moving or whatever. I still hate this to death,


That's because this is a NUMBER 3

Do you understand that terminology?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> That's because this is a NUMBER 3
> 
> Do you understand that terminology?


I do!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow, Far. I don't understand this response.
> 
> This man doesn't hate his wife. He knows that they were both wrong about a lot of things, but then she reached a breaking point and left, and he knows exactly how he helped her reach that point. He did not want her to reach it, but it was too late when it happened.
> 
> ...


I am not suggesting he hate his wife, either. Nor am I suggesting that he treat her in a cold manner.

In his OP, he was already volunteering to help her move. Volunteering. That is swell, but frankly misguided. Acts of service are an emotional need. That is no longer his duty. 

She is now another ex with whom he shares children, and frankly, the friendlier they are, the more time they spend together, the more they vacation together with the kids, the more it stunts his healing, the more it prevents him truly discovering his self worth, and the more confusing it will be for the children.

I am also a child of divorce. It would have confused the hell out of me if my parents ended up buddy-buddy after divorcing.

It truly has nothing to do with hammering her, and everything to do with moving on. Exes are exes for a reason.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> It truly has nothing to do with hammering her, and everything to do with moving on. *Exes are exes for a reason.*


But the reasons are not the same for all couples. The reasons my ex-h and I are ex's doesn't prevent us from being friends. And this couple are not even close to being all the way through all of the decisions and things that would have to happen before they actually become ex's.

Your suggestion of "sorry, can't help ya, you fired me" is definitely cold, undignified and unnecessary, IMO. He knows why she left and his part in it. There is nothing to be gained from this type of attitude, even if he does totally distance himself. He can do that softly and with no negative words at all, and still do it with concrete walls if that's what he needs to do for himself. She is not trying to manipulate him, she is simply trying to break free after she reached her breaking point....again, which he totally understands his part in. Like it or not, people have to continue to face each other to get these things sorted out...they will have to meet several times. He will need her help on certain things, too...there's zero reason to be snippy to each other and if they don't, they will preserve a little humanity in themselves that possibly rekindle into something later.

This man still wants to reconcile with his wife. While I have suggested he do the work of moving on as if it is over, I also know there still might be a chance if they both get some space. If he is cold and angry at her now, after she is simply asking to get away, it will only prove to her that there is no way he will ever get over his anger stuff. If he can at least be authentic....and state it like I suggested if necessary "it will break my heart even more to have to lean on each other right now, so I can't do that"....that will tell her where his heart is at and she will most likely respect him for it and distance herself, if that's what she wants...or warm her heart a little if there's still a chance. Or at least leave a door open later that won't be left open if he says "sorry baby, you're on your own, you fired me, remember?" If he does anything like that, it will be a nail in the coffin.

But it will also be unkind...and for what reason does he have to be unkind at this point?


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

I very much respect all of your opinions. Believe me, it's something that I have wrestled with, but being willing to have a friendship with her is also part of being a bigger person. Don't get me mistaken though. I don't have any intentions of allowing it to stunt my progress in any way. I won't be taken advantage of, and she's just honestly not that kind of person even remotely. She's always been a very giving person. It would help if you knew her of course. Everyone who meets her falls in love with her. She always understood that life was too short to be angry. 

Yes, I will hope that it will result in a chance to reconcile. The key to me is being confident in myself and not letting it bother me if it doesn't turn out the way I want. I will still appreciate her friendship. I honestly don't think it's healthy to be cold and short. I guess that might be more appropriate if she was really trying to take advantage of me and needed to get a stern message from me, but I see no reason at all for that here. Being cold toward her, especially when I don't really feel that way, isn't going to give her any reason to think I am any different than I ever was. If a person has to be cold as part of their process to move on, then I guess so be it, but I just don't feel that way. The last thing I need for my progress is to be angry and hold on to it. That doesn't mean I'm going to torture myself, but I really want to give it an honest effort. To be honest, I doubt that she will even ever pursue it. I wouldn't maintain a close friendship with her once I've moved on and have a girlfriend, and I'm sure she won't either when she has a boyfriend. I hate to even talk like that, because I truly hope it doesn't come to that. I think she understands as well that the dynamics will change depending on the situation. At the end of the day, we'll have more respect for each other even when it would come down to mostly contact to meet with my son. I'll have more respect for myself. 

I have made her life hard enough. I really never meant to do that, and the last thing I want to do is be difficult and keep making it hard. This isn't something she's interested in doing anytime soon by any means. A lot could change, and probably will. I don't expect she'll be single long. I don't know how long she'll wait before dating, but once she does, then we won't be going and doing things together. I will still consider her a friend always. 

In all honesty, I think one of two things are possible... one remote possibility is that she has a change of heart before the ink is dry, and I've got lots of wishes in for that one. The other possible, and likely outcome is that she continues to enjoy her new found independence and only feels more secure in her decision. I mean, it took her less than a week to decide. She had a place of her own by day 10. I think she's trying to be optimistic for my sake, but the only way we will probably end up hanging out again is if she does have a change of heart. I hope for the best. I hope we can hang out and learn to be friends again before she completely moves on with her life. It's best for any chance to get back together, and I feel it's best for me in becoming a bigger person. We shall see.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> But I don't understand Far's hard hammer approach.


Because she cheated on him?

Yes, he admitted his faults also, but when someone cheats on you they are not your friend, so why treat them like one? It seems to me like it would be living a lie to act as if they were "friends." Of course, they should be cordial, but there will come a time when his love for her will make a "course correction" and he will realize this "friend idea" is only harming his dignity. 

I think he should focus more on being a friend to himself than to her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I very much respect all of your opinions. Believe me, it's something that I have wrestled with, but being willing to have a friendship with her is also part of being a bigger person. Don't get me mistaken though. I don't have any intentions of allowing it to stunt my progress in any way. I won't be taken advantage of, and she's just honestly not that kind of person even remotely. She's always been a very giving person. It would help if you knew her of course. Everyone who meets her falls in love with her. She always understood that life was too short to be angry.
> 
> Yes, I will hope that it will result in a chance to reconcile. The key to me is being confident in myself and not letting it bother me if it doesn't turn out the way I want. I will still appreciate her friendship. I honestly don't think it's healthy to be cold and short. I guess that might be more appropriate if she was really trying to take advantage of me and needed to get a stern message from me, but I see no reason at all for that here. Being cold toward her, especially when I don't really feel that way, isn't going to give her any reason to think I am any different than I ever was. If a person has to be cold as part of their process to move on, then I guess so be it, but I just don't feel that way. The last thing I need for my progress is to be angry and hold on to it. That doesn't mean I'm going to torture myself, but I really want to give it an honest effort. To be honest, I doubt that she will even ever pursue it. I wouldn't maintain a close friendship with her once I've moved on and have a girlfriend, and I'm sure she won't either when she has a boyfriend. I hate to even talk like that, because I truly hope it doesn't come to that. I think she understands as well that the dynamics will change depending on the situation. At the end of the day, we'll have more respect for each other even when it would come down to mostly contact to meet with my son. I'll have more respect for myself.
> 
> ...


Very mature post, lost. I am impressed.

Very glad Faithful Wife was here to offer mature advice, too. 

If you follow what FW has said and what the _Ultimate Husband _website can offer, you will surely come out of this wiser and stronger than you came into it.

Your humility and willingness to own your own hand in your troubles makes me respect you, lost, and feel compassion for you. All the best moving forward.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> I very much respect all of your opinions. Believe me, it's something that I have wrestled with, but being willing to have a friendship with her is also part of being a bigger person. Don't get me mistaken though. I don't have any intentions of allowing it to stunt my progress in any way. I won't be taken advantage of, and she's just honestly not that kind of person even remotely. She's always been a very giving person. It would help if you knew her of course. Everyone who meets her falls in love with her. She always understood that life was too short to be angry.
> 
> Yes, I will hope that it will result in a chance to reconcile. The key to me is being confident in myself and not letting it bother me if it doesn't turn out the way I want. I will still appreciate her friendship. I honestly don't think it's healthy to be cold and short. I guess that might be more appropriate if she was really trying to take advantage of me and needed to get a stern message from me, but I see no reason at all for that here. Being cold toward her, especially when I don't really feel that way, isn't going to give her any reason to think I am any different than I ever was. If a person has to be cold as part of their process to move on, then I guess so be it, but I just don't feel that way. The last thing I need for my progress is to be angry and hold on to it. That doesn't mean I'm going to torture myself, but I really want to give it an honest effort. To be honest, I doubt that she will even ever pursue it. I wouldn't maintain a close friendship with her once I've moved on and have a girlfriend, and I'm sure she won't either when she has a boyfriend. I hate to even talk like that, because I truly hope it doesn't come to that. I think she understands as well that the dynamics will change depending on the situation. At the end of the day, we'll have more respect for each other even when it would come down to mostly contact to meet with my son. I'll have more respect for myself.
> 
> ...


This whole post is why he needs to be cold to her and totally break things off and go no contact.
He is obviously hoping to be friends with her and that she will come back. She will see it as him manipulating her, or see it as weakness and it will drive her farther away. 
And, he will put himself in limbo with constant hope. 

OP, going no contact with exception of kids is your best bet for healing faster. Stop hoping. It will only hurt you. Once they lose their love for you,it AIN'T coming back. You can be "friends" with her after you've totally moved on and she doesn't matter to you anymore, just as she has shown you that you don't matter to her.

Don't be weak and try the hang on forever.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Did you find it? I made it up, though, I am sure others obviously used it before me.


Oh, it has meaning.

Quoted for Mother F****** Truth


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Because it doesn't work like that. She is cutting her husband out of her life. He needs to cut her out of his. CUTTING is not a gentle process. He is hurting. She is not-- she's detached. Any "friendship" with him will just be for her own benefit, not his. He needs to be cold and short with her for a long time until he heals. No room for pleasantries that will confuse him and leave him wondering if she's softening toward him.
> 
> He needs to cut her off! No emotional support, honeydo's, friendly chats, or pleasantries of any kind.
> She's doing what she needs.
> *He needs to stop worrying about her period.*


Yeah, that is one thing he can stop worrying about. *Her period* :laugh:


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

jld said:


> Very mature post, lost. I am impressed.
> 
> Very glad Faithful Wife was here to offer mature advice, too.
> 
> ...


Thank you, JLD. I truly appreciate your encouragement and compassion. I really would have just lost it if it wasn't for this site and all of the support. The same goes for FW and everyone. I feel like I'm growing a lot, and I'll be better for it. Something positive must come out of this one way or the other.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> Thank you, JLD. I truly appreciate your encouragement and compassion. I really would have just lost it if it wasn't for this site and all of the support. The same goes for FW and everyone. I feel like I'm growing a lot, and I'll be better for it. Something positive must come out of this one way or the other.


Absolutely. I think it already has.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> This whole post is why he needs to be cold to her and totally break things off and go no contact.
> He is obviously hoping to be friends with her and that she will come back. She will see it as him manipulating her, or see it as weakness and it will drive her farther away.
> And, he will put himself in limbo with constant hope.
> 
> ...


What you're saying isn't lost on me, and I appreciate the advice. I don't agree with being cold, but I realize I may have to totally detach. I'm prepared to do that if necessary for my healing, but I don't see it that way right now. Presently, we aren't having any contact that isn't necessary and probably won't for a long time. Our conversation yesterday was very brief. We didn't make plans to be friends, it's just open optimism more than anything. She said.. "maybe some day." I have no intentions of pursuing her on the matter. If that day comes, she'll have to let me know on her time. At that point, I have no intentions of being weak. I intend to show her my strength and that I'm really big enough to be mature about it. I don't intend to manipulate her, I intend to be honest. Being honest with myself, it may not be as easy as I would like to think right now and in my emotional state. However, if I meet with her and it's hard on me, then I won't continue. It'd be a shame to wonder what if. I'm going to take every chance. My silence now will speak more later. She probably expects that I'm going to jump all over it and ask her to do things, but I'm really not. 

One thing that sinks in more and more is how quickly she has come to her decision and moved on to get another place. Obviously, it's not something she hasn't thought about before. I really don't want her to be with me if she doesn't want to. Nobody should have to do that. That thought has given me the strength to stay detached, and respect her space. I will continue to do so. I'm worth something too, and shouldn't want to chase someone who doesn't want me. I will be ok. I'll do what's necessary. Thanks again.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

LWH,

Good discussions going on here, but I'd like to offer you what I think is a clear path. First of all, you are doing a great job of processing all of this and taking responsibility for your role in the marriage. The fact that you want to come out of this a better man and better future husband (whether it is with your current wife or another) is exactly what you should be doing. The unexamined life is not worth living, right? So keep working on the issues that will improve you. 

You have to make a decision on what you want. It sounds like you want to reconcile with your wife. If that is the case, then go all in with this objective. Be strategic about this and don't expect reconciliation to happen organically. It takes a plan. Give her every opportunity to see the man that you have become and without drowning her in relationship talk and acting desperate, let her know that the door to reconciliation is open. Meet her emotional needs without drowning her or suffocating her. You can do this from a distance by simply showing you care. Send her care packages occasionally, bring over comfort food when she's sick, text her caring messages once in a while. Do things things and expect nothing in return. Set a goal to win her back, but give that goal and expiration date (6 months to 2 years, whatever time period you can endure). If after that time, your efforts haven't won her back, then its time to move on and go dark. No contact for life. 

If your wife does decide to reconcile, you must affair proof your marriage and set boundaries for 100% transparency. You must also commit to nurturing the marriage by assertively and intentionally meeting each other's emotional needs and avoiding the things that tore the two of you apart. Marriage is intentional, not some passive activity that glides on autopilot.

If you do not reconcile, then I would recommend no contact for life. Your wife betrayed you. She let you go. Friends don't do this. I don't know of any healthy friendships that are based on betrayal and abuse. You don't end the friendship out of resentment, vindictiveness and anger; you do it out of the need to move forward and not have to carry baggage down your future new and happy life.

Above all, this is a process. Give it the time it needs. You are a thoughtful man, and you are taking some good steps. I just want to be sure that you are clear on your objectives.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Rick Blaine said:


> LWH,
> 
> Good discussions going on here, but I'd like to offer you what I think is a clear path. First of all, you are doing a great job of processing all of this and taking responsibility for your role in the marriage. The fact that you want to come out of this a better man and better future husband (whether it is with your current wife or another) is exactly what you should be doing. The unexamined life is not worth living, right? So keep working on the issues that will improve you.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Rick. I very much appreciate your advice. That all seems like sound information. I have definitely made it clear to her that I won't take my ring off until the ink is dry. Right now, I'm trying to choose my opportunities wisely and let her drive while becoming a better person. In my heart, I want her back more than anything. She knows that, but she just has no faith. I will try my best to restore it exactly without being desperate or overbearing in any way. This morning we had a brief conversation about some finances. It was pleasant and we even joked a bit. She more or less had nothing to say to me for 9 days. I'm just happy to be somewhat in her good graces again for the moment. 

Something that has really bothered me lately is that she kept telling me she needed contacts. For months she told me this. Since moving out here, we had a lot of catching up to do. We moved three states away, and it was pretty costly. I was focused on absolute necessities. Having only been here 10 months, there have been a lot of extra expenses for things we needed. I just kept putting it off and basically ignoring her, and I figured we'd get to it. So anyway, I told her that I would really like to buy her some contacts soon if it would just seem like an insult to her. She said she'd think about it. I assured her I wasn't going to fight with her about what little finances we have to untangle. There's really just one small debt and a few leftover bills we'll go half on. I offered to help in any way I could, but definitely at her discretion, and I won't push it if she doesn't ask. 

I can't ever cut her out completely, at least not for some years. She and my son remain close. He's 14, and I wouldn't force him to stay out of her life. It's his decision. They love each other very much. It may boil down to them growing apart someday, but until then there will be contact at least once or twice a year when she picks him up for a dinner, movie, etc.. Once he's off to college, or once we have new relationships, then things will probably fade out. I hate to even imagine that, because it is not at all what I want, but I do deffinitely have to stay focused on making the changes I need to make to be happy with myself. Controlling my anger is going to be 90% of that, and I honestly feel I'm as close as I've ever been to understanding how to go about that. I know I am. You all have given me the tools along with my anger mgmt exercises. I'm all in to any degree that will be appropriate. The world brought us together once, and it just may again someday. If not, and a friendship works. I'm for it to a point. If I have no success getting her back, I'll be happy that I'm a bigger person and that I'm better prepared for the future.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> Thank you, Rick. I very much appreciate your advice. That all seems like sound information. I have definitely made it clear to her that I won't take my ring off until the ink is dry. Right now, I'm trying to choose my opportunities wisely and let her drive while becoming a better person. In my heart, I want her back more than anything. She knows that, but she just has no faith. I will try my best to restore it exactly without being desperate or overbearing in any way. This morning we had a brief conversation about some finances. It was pleasant and we even joked a bit. She more or less had nothing to say to me for 9 days. I'm just happy to be somewhat in her good graces again for the moment.
> 
> Something that has really bothered me lately is that she kept telling me she needed contacts. For months she told me this. Since moving out here, we had a lot of catching up to do. We moved three states away, and it was pretty costly. I was focused on absolute necessities. Having only been here 10 months, there have been a lot of extra expenses for things we needed. I just kept putting it off and basically ignoring her, and I figured we'd get to it. So anyway, I told her that I would really like to buy her some contacts soon if it would just seem like an insult to her. She said she'd think about it. I assured her I wasn't going to fight with her about what little finances we have to untangle. There's really just one small debt and a few leftover bills we'll go half on. I offered to help in any way I could, but definitely at her discretion, and I won't push it if she doesn't ask.
> 
> I can't ever cut her out completely, at least not for some years. She and my son remain close. He's 14, and I wouldn't force him to stay out of her life. It's his decision. They love each other very much. It may boil down to them growing apart someday, but until then there will be contact at least once or twice a year when she picks him up for a dinner, movie, etc.. Once he's off to college, or once we have new relationships, then things will probably fade out. I hate to even imagine that, because it is not at all what I want, but I do deffinitely have to stay focused on making the changes I need to make to be happy with myself. Controlling my anger is going to be 90% of that, and I honestly feel I'm as close as I've ever been to understanding how to go about that. I know I am. You all have given me the tools along with my anger mgmt exercises. I'm all in to any degree that will be appropriate. The world brought us together once, and it just may again someday. If not, and a friendship works. I'm for it to a point. If I have no success getting her back, I'll be happy that I'm a bigger person and that I'm better prepared for the future.


Again, very mature post. You are very considerate of their relationship, lost.

Honestly, if you keep going at this rate, you are definitely going to seem like a changed man to her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

lost_without_her said:


> I can't ever cut her out completely, at least not for some years. She and my son remain close. He's 14, and I wouldn't force him to stay out of her life. It's his decision. They love each other very much. It may boil down to them growing apart someday, but until then there will be contact at least once or twice a year when she picks him up for a dinner, movie, etc.. Once he's off to college, or once we have new relationships, then things will probably fade out. I hate to even imagine that, because it is not at all what I want, but I do deffinitely have to stay focused on making the changes I need to make to be happy with myself.


My ex was my son's step father for a very long time and at a very pivotal time in my son's life. They are still very close even though my ex and I are divorced now. Part of why they are so close is because my ex and I were loving to each other through the end, and even now. But I also did not interfere with their relationship after the split, I let those two contact each other if/when they wanted to and never encouraged or discouraged anything they both decided they wanted. They found their own way, without me.

These days the 3 of us can go out for drinks and dinner and have a wonderful adult/family conversation, no tension, no drama, no heartbreak anywhere to be seen.

I'm just sharing this to give you an example of how things can turn out....however, I still have hope for your situation.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> Again, very mature post. You are very considerate of their relationship, lost.
> 
> Honestly, if you keep going at this rate, *you are definitely going to seem like a changed man to her.*


And its not going to matter because she is DONE. Stop acting like she is going to come around. His new outlook will garner her respect for him, but she isnt going to want him back. So lets all move on from the fantasy, shall we? Let it GO. 

Everyone either talks about going cold on her or being there for her, trying to be friends. REALITY is somewhere in between these two. He needs to cut out contact with her, unless it pertains to the kid or the divorce. That doesnt mean he has to be short with her, or cold, you can be businesslike without being rude. When my first husband and I split, after the initial fallout, we were able to be civil and amicable with each other. We were able to work out the division of our assets together, and the custody arrangements for our daughter. We were able to be considerate of each other when it came to her and changing plans, etc, but this does not require us to be FRIENDS. 

OP, do not help her move, do not be her sympathetic ear or shoulder to cry on. That will only allow her to use you. She is done with the marriage, so has fired you as her husband. If you got fired from a job, would you go back and help them train your replacement for no pay?? Or fill in when they are short handed for no pay?? No, you wouldnt. Same principle applies here. I dont know why these folks insist on trying to keep your hope up, you are being more realistic than other people posting on your thread. I do wish the best for you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> And its not going to matter because she is DONE. Stop acting like she is going to come around. His new outlook will garner her respect for him, but she isnt going to want him back. So lets all move on from the fantasy, shall we? Let it GO.
> 
> Everyone either talks about going cold on her or being there for her, trying to be friends. REALITY is somewhere in between these two. He needs to cut out contact with her, unless it pertains to the kid or the divorce. That doesnt mean he has to be short with her, or cold, you can be businesslike without being rude. When my first husband and I split, after the initial fallout, we were able to be civil and amicable with each other. We were able to work out the division of our assets together, and the custody arrangements for our daughter. We were able to be considerate of each other when it came to her and changing plans, etc, but this does not require us to be FRIENDS.
> 
> OP, do not help her move, do not be her sympathetic ear or shoulder to cry on. That will only allow her to use you. She is done with the marriage, so has fired you as her husband. If you got fired from a job, would you go back and help them train your replacement for no pay?? Or fill in when they are short handed for no pay?? No, you wouldnt. Same principle applies here. I dont know why these folks insist on trying to keep your hope up, you are being more realistic than other people posting on your thread. I do wish the best for you.


We don't know the future, 3X. Some wives give their husbands a second chance if they perceive genuine change in them.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Gifts will be seen as desperation.

You just don't get that she has made a choice to LEAVE you.
I'd this is kinda sudden and she's found her a place already, it will likely have a Y chromosome in it quickly.
You are going to try to follow JLD' sand rick's advice and nice her back "win her back"--- because that's what your emotions want you to do. Your emotions will screw you over.

You are not accepting that your wife is gone. It takes a while......
I personally think you're going to be in limbo for a long time, even after she's dating.

She won't give you the time of day until you stop caring.
I wish you reach acceptance quickly.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Gifts will be seen as desperation.
> 
> You just don't get that she has made a choice to LEAVE you.
> I'd this is kinda sudden and she's found her a place already, it will likely have a Y chromosome in it quickly.
> ...


OP is facing it more than some of our posters here on the thread. 

This isnt sudden for her, she has been checked out for some time now. She has turned to other men throughout their marriage, which proves she has not been invested in the marriage for a while. OP seems to know he needs to come to acceptance and seems set on working on himself, which I commend him for. That will make him a better partner when a GOOD woman finally comes into his life.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

jld said:


> We don't know the future, 3X. Some wives give their husbands a second chance if they perceive genuine change in them.


I'm stunned that this is the way you choose to frame this situation.

The OP's best interests don't lie in the perp/wife giving him any kind of "chance", it lies in improving his skills as a man and partner so that he can give his best to another woman.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He is doing a lot better than I was at this point. I think he is in a good place mentally and will eventually see things as they are and move on. 
I disagree with people giving him false hope of reconciliation because it will hurt him.

As you have pointed out, 3x, she has been gone mentally for a long time. He has virtually zero chance with her. And he will likely be far happier with someone else, even if she returned to the "marriage"...


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree with people giving him false hope of reconciliation because it will hurt him. As you have pointed out, 3x, she has been gone mentally for a long time. He has virtually zero chance with her. And he will likely be far happier with someone else, even if she returned to the "marriage"...


I did not realize that his wife is a serial cheater. That was not mentioned in this thread but must have been mentioned in a thread he posted before this one. If she has cheated on him multiple times, then the hope for reconciliation is extremely narrow and doubtful.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Rick Blaine said:


> I did not realize that his wife is a serial cheater. That was not mentioned in this thread but must have been mentioned in a thread he posted before this one. If she has cheated on him multiple times, then the hope for reconciliation is extremely narrow and doubtful.


She had an EA.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

GTdad said:


> I'm stunned that this is the way you choose to frame this situation.
> 
> The OP's best interests don't lie in the perp/wife giving him any kind of "chance", it lies in improving his skills as a man and partner so that he can give his best to another woman.


We all have our own opinion on this, GTDad. 

I happen to believe the path he is on is his best chance for reconciliation, if he wants that.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

I think some comments on this thread are fairly idealistic and altruistic, but my limited life experience has been quite the opposite. I suppose reality is all over the map for many of us, but there is an overall average of our experiences and I doubt it is as optimistic as what the OP would like to believe. 

I applaud the OP for owning his faults and vowing to do better, but my fallible opinion is it is too little, too late. I encourage the OP to not make the mistake of trying to compensate for his past faults by being more willing to tolerate her faults ... this only ensures mutual destruction. I felt this way when my ex betrayed me and it only caused me self loathing at a later time. Do not sacrifice your dignity. It will only set you back in the trajectory of your progress.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> My ex was my son's step father for a very long time and at a very pivotal time in my son's life. They are still very close even though my ex and I are divorced now. Part of why they are so close is because my ex and I were loving to each other through the end, and even now. But I also did not interfere with their relationship after the split, I let those two contact each other if/when they wanted to and never encouraged or discouraged anything they both decided they wanted. They found their own way, without me.
> 
> These days the 3 of us can go out for drinks and dinner and have a wonderful adult/family conversation, no tension, no drama, no heartbreak anywhere to be seen.
> 
> I'm just sharing this to give you an example of how things can turn out....however, I still have hope for your situation.



I truly feel like that's how I would prefer that it be. My anger didn't just impact my wife. Unfortunately, my son saw me angry many times, and he saw me angry at her. I don't want him learning that from me, and it's really important to me that he sees me treat her with the utmost respect she really deserves. I've been talking with him about it, and he has really learned a lot from it, I think. He was mad at me for a few days himself, but then told me he realizes anger is clearly not worth the outcome 99.9% of the time. He has learned what I never could. I will be sure to keep him on that path, leading by example. 

Your example does give me a lot of hope, and I really appreciate it. I will strive for the same kind of relationship.. all the good things and none of the bad. It's the good things we all need from each other. After having been so angry for so long, I have been smiling at times today, knowing that I have truly grown from this. First time I have really felt proud of myself in awhile, and at a time I would normally be losing it completely. I think she's going to have to leave the best of me, and that gives me strength.. if that makes sense.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> She had an EA.


You are quite flippant about this, like its some minor little bump in the road that can just be blown off. She didnt just "have an EA". She turned to other men time after time in the course of their marriage:



lost_without_her said:


> -she admitted she was texting an old boyfriend. I was crushed, angry, and every other emotion. Ultimately, we moved on from this and we wrote it off to a drunken mistake.
> 
> -Then, I found her catching up with an old boyfriend and hiding it from me. All of those feelings came back, and I suddenly felt very insecure again. From there, I found her doing the same thing a few more times, and it just continued to amplify.
> 
> ...



How can you diminish the severity of this, like this is nothing? He did handle it wrong, for sure... he should have kicked her out instead of letting his anger linger and fester and control him like it did. She has done him a huge favor by leaving. Now he will no longer be cheated on and has a chance to get control of his anger issue so he can find a real partner in the future.

LWH, I think you are handling yourself really well and are to be commended, please keep it up.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> You are quite flippant about this, like its some minor little bump in the road that can just be blown off. She didnt just "have an EA". She turned to other men time after time in the course of their marriage:
> 
> How can you diminish the severity of this, like this is nothing? He did handle it wrong, for sure... he should have kicked her out instead of letting his anger linger and fester and control him like it did. She has done him a huge favor by leaving. Now he will no longer be cheated on and has a chance to get control of his anger issue so he can find a real partner in the future.


 I did not recall it happening more than once. I remembered some phone calls or texts with an ex husband, but that was all.



> LWH, I think you are handling yourself really well and are to be commended, please keep it up.


He is indeed doing great.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> You are quite flippant about this, like its some minor little bump in the road that can just be blown off. She didnt just "have an EA". She turned to other men time after time in the course of their marriage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm really not trying to diminish the severity of her actions. It was severe, but mostly it was years ago. I stayed. I had responsibilities that I didn't keep. It always takes two. I hope that speaks towards the woman she is. I wasn't willing to lose her over some drunk texts One thing I do believe is that everything happens for a reason. I trust my feelings and my instincts. I trust my heart. My brain hasn't treated me so well. If someone treated me the way I treated her, I could understand the need to reach out to someone else. Try to imagine that someone was so hateful to you... why would you not think about seeking out someone who made you feel like a good person instead of a low down POS? Believe me, the thought crossed my mind when she did the things she did.. I didn't react the way she did, but I can relate. Never be cheated on again? Statistically speaking, it's more likely than not. A lot of cheaters out there. Your odds are just as good working it out with someone who has cheated on you. Again, I think texts are a lot different than physically stepping out. What if I had acted right and been able to be secure in myself regardless of her actions? That's my goal. I should have treated her right. I shouldn't have given her any excuse. After 11 years, I'm just not quite willing to think that it couldn't still be great. I do appreciate your perspective and your sentiment. I will keep it up. I'm telling you. NOBODY will take my happiness away. Ever. It's all on me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LWH, that post was not directed at you, dear! 

However, that said... please do not tell yourself that texts are not as serious, because even though it was "just" texts and not physical (that you know of), it was still your spouse turning away from your marriage and toward other men. She was very much in the wrong, and please dont let anyone do this to you in the future.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You can be a co-parent with her without being her friend. 

If there is an emergency, like her and your child being caught out and broke down on the freeway, and she needs someone to come get them... then absolutely go and pick them up. 

If there is an emergency like the air conditioner on her house breaking down, and its 100 degrees out, and your child is living in that house, then you can loan her the money to get it fixed. 

If she needs to coordinate pickup times, needs you to attend a teacher conference, or if there is a play at school, then obviously you can cooperate with her. 

None of these things require you to be a friend to her. But if she starts talking to you about feelings, or going back and rehashing all the mistakes you made as a husband for the 1000th time, or complaining about her aches and pains, or asking you if she should start back on birth control once she starts screwing other guys....NO....You don't stick around and be there for that crap. You are not her girlfriend. You are not her confessor. You are no longer a confidante.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I really think this is a clear case of:

A wife who is clearly cheating and has lost feelings for her husband.

The cheater has shifted all blame to her husband who has taken it hook, line, and sinker.

He wants this all to be his fault so that he can fix it and win her back.

OP would be better off continuing to let her go totally. I really think she is a serial cheater and will do this with anyone she's with.

OP will need to remember this about her when she comes a- callin' when she gets in a relationship with her next guy. He may mistakenly think she wants to get back together when she really just wants attention.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Let me correct you, Evin. A wife loses feelings first, and then cheats. The important thing to understand is why she lost feelings to begin with. You're really making more of this "friend" thing than it is. She didn't suggest it to keep me on deck, it was consolation prize. If and when it becomes a reality to any degree, please know that I'm no fool. I'm really not. I know the difference between being used and appreciated. I have no intentions of being her confidant in the event she moves on to another man. I'm done some stupid things, but I'm not that stupid. 

Nobody has shifted any blame. She's perfectly willing to admit her mistakes as well. I'm not making it up when I tell you that I was terrible to her. I would have cheated on me too. That doesn't excuse it, but I have punished her enough for that already. And don't get me wrong.. a betrayal is a betrayal... at the end of the day, the texting was cheating. However, she never quit paying the price for it. I never let her live it down. If you're going to commit to someone, then be willing to do your part. I believe you should be willing to give your all, regardless of what they do. I wish I would have. I want to know that I gave it my all. I'm going to give it my all now, and if it's too little too late, then so be it. I think you're just not really being objective about this, and maybe judging from your own experiences. 

When she moves on to the next guy, I won't be around. If it comes to that, I can guarantee you that she won't be reaching out anyway.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> Let me correct you, Evin. A wife loses feelings first, and then cheats.


Each and every time?

It briefs well, and fits a certain narrative, but way off the mark of reality.

That's okay. Your mind is made up. Take care, brother.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

If it makes you happy to be the Fall guy then be that person.

Her EXH is the Summer guy. Her other two texting guys are Spring [in his step] and Winter Cool Guy. 

Humor aside, do whatever makes YOU happy. 

Humility and self effacement never won a battle. It does [help] get you through the Pearly Gates.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> A wife loses feelings first, and then cheats. The important thing to understand is why she lost feelings to begin with. .


Not necessarily. I'm unaware of statistics on this, but know beyond a doubt through life experience that this is not always true. 

For your own sake I would like you to consider changing your handle from "lost without her" to "damn glad she's gone."


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

I would submit that when a person cheats, they don't have feelings for you that are strong enough to care about protecting you and treating you right. I would say in most cases they didn't really have strong feelings to begin with, or their feelings became diminished to a point they were willing to cheat. I'm not any expert, but that makes sense to me. You're all assuming a bit too much suggesting I'm going to be the fall guy. She's just not the vindictive type. For example, I told her she could let me have it the other day if it would make her feel better. She told me it might actually, but she could never do that to me. She's not a selfish person. I was the selfish one in our marriage.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lost_without_her said:


> I would submit that when a person cheats, they don't have feelings for you that are strong enough to care about protecting you and treating you right. I would say in most cases they didn't really have strong feelings to begin with, or their feelings became diminished to a point they were willing to cheat. I'm not any expert, but that makes sense to me. You're all assuming a bit too much suggesting I'm going to be the fall guy. She's just not the vindictive type. For example, I told her she could let me have it the other day if it would make her feel better. She told me it might actually, but she could never do that to me. She's not a selfish person. *I was the selfish one in our marriage.*


If this is true, then what makes you think you have what it takes to be her friend?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lost_without_her said:


> I would submit that when a person cheats, they don't have feelings for you that are strong enough to care about protecting you and treating you right. I would say in most cases they didn't really have strong feelings to begin with, or their feelings became diminished to a point they were willing to cheat. I'm not any expert, but that makes sense to me. You're all assuming a bit too much suggesting I'm going to be the fall guy. She's just not the vindictive type. For example, I told her she could let me have it the other day if it would make her feel better. She told me it might actually, but she could never do that to me. *She's not a selfish person. I was the selfish one in our marriage.*


You win, you win...

Let her be the 'nice' one with other men and you occasionally. 

And you be the 'mean' one by yourself...pulling your pud in the corner. Alone and beaten down, not by your hand, but by your stubborn blind mind. 

By writing this, I did not win....I folded.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> If this is true, then what makes you think you have what it takes to be her friend?


And why would you want a "friend" like that?

Be honest.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> And why would you want a "friend" like that?
> 
> Be honest.


A lot has changed since this post. I have decided we will not maintain a friendship. You're right. I don't need a friend like that. I'm honestly not sure why I tolerate so much from people. I just end up angry and making the relationship worse. I truly loved that woman, and I guess I just wanted to be accepted. I wanted to be the one. I wasn't.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

lost_without_her said:


> A lot has changed since this post. I have decided we will not maintain a friendship. You're right. I don't need a friend like that. I'm honestly not sure why I tolerate so much from people. I just end up angry and making the relationship worse. I truly loved that woman, and I guess I just wanted to be accepted. I wanted to be the one. I wasn't.


Someone on this forum uses a footer that almost perfectly sums up your situation
If someone is stabbing you in the heart,stop handing them the knife.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You will likely discover in your counseling and therapy that you need fuel for your anger. Did it occur to you that you select partners based on that?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lost_without_her said:


> A lot has changed since this post. I have decided we will not maintain a friendship. You're right. I don't need a friend like that. I'm honestly not sure why I tolerate so much from people. I just end up angry and making the relationship worse. I truly loved that woman, and I guess I just wanted to be accepted. I wanted to be the one. I wasn't.


Sounds like she did something to take advantage of you again.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Andy, that's one I'll take with me forever. Well said. Farside, I hadn't ever looked at it like that. I honestly don't know. I don't think so. I lived in a small town most of my life. I met my first wife in highschool. We were way too young. We rushed our marriage because I went in the military. It was the only way to stay together. We got an amazing kid out of the deal, so I can't say it was a mistake... but.. it was a mistake. We were nowhere near ready for marriage, and she was not a good person to me ever. When we divorced and she got primary custody of my kid, it really tore me up. I think that's the point that my anger really got out of control, and just throughout that marriage in general. I met my present wife at work. It's the only place I really ever met anyone new. We always kind of looked at it like fate. 

Her mother got cancer when we were first starting to talk. She was scheduled for an operation in another city out of state on whatever day it was. The night before the operation, my mother had a heart attack. She was rushed to the same city. I had no clue where they were at. We pulled into the parking lot of a hotel a couple of blocks from the hospital my mother was being rushed too. We needed directions. While we were stopped, I called her to let her know what had happened. It turns out, we were in the parking lot of her hotel. There was a metro connecting the two hospitals where our mothers were having operations on the same day. We were both pretty crushed, and she took the metro over to meet me during my mother's bypass. We had this magical airport reunion moment, and the rest was history. There were quite a few things like that we looked at as signs of the world bringing us together. I think that I've just had some bad luck, and I just never loved myself enough to think I would do better. I know now that I can. I will. 

Bandit, that is accurate, and that's another great saying. She wanted to get the divorce done in 3 weeks after she left just before my kid was coming for a visitation. (previous marriage) The way she's handled this in general has been really harsh, and I never could have imagined it would be like this. Somehow, it's still shocking to me, but the way she's acting is pretty well aligned with how she acted often times in our marriage. Very inconsiderate. It has really reminded me that there were so many times I didn't have a chance in the world of not getting angry, and she rarely showed any remorse for things she did. I always had to fish for an apology. One of the times I caught her being unfaithful to me, she got mad at me for being mad... she got up and tore every picture off the wall in our hallway. She always hated facing her faults. I definitely believe it now. I understand that I was awful, but I wasn't wrong about a lot of things. I doubt that she would have been happy, even had I been the model husband. Marriage... smh


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you still enlisted?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

lost_without_her said:


> Andy, that's one I'll take with me forever. Well said. Farside, I hadn't ever looked at it like that. I honestly don't know. I don't think so. I lived in a small town most of my life. I met my first wife in highschool. We were way too young. We rushed our marriage because I went in the military. It was the only way to stay together. We got an amazing kid out of the deal, so I can't say it was a mistake... but.. it was a mistake. We were nowhere near ready for marriage, and she was not a good person to me ever. When we divorced and she got primary custody of my kid, it really tore me up. I think that's the point that my anger really got out of control, and just throughout that marriage in general. I met my present wife at work. It's the only place I really ever met anyone new. We always kind of looked at it like fate.
> 
> Her mother got cancer when we were first starting to talk. She was scheduled for an operation in another city out of state on whatever day it was. The night before the operation, my mother had a heart attack. She was rushed to the same city. I had no clue where they were at. We pulled into the parking lot of a hotel a couple of blocks from the hospital my mother was being rushed too. We needed directions. While we were stopped, I called her to let her know what had happened. It turns out, we were in the parking lot of her hotel. There was a metro connecting the two hospitals where our mothers were having operations on the same day. We were both pretty crushed, and she took the metro over to meet me during my mother's bypass. We had this magical airport reunion moment, and the rest was history. There were quite a few things like that we looked at as signs of the world bringing us together. I think that I've just had some bad luck, and I just never loved myself enough to think I would do better. I know now that I can. I will.
> 
> Bandit, that is accurate, and that's another great saying. She wanted to get the divorce done in 3 weeks after she left just before my kid was coming for a visitation. (previous marriage) The way she's handled this in general has been really harsh, and I never could have imagined it would be like this. Somehow, it's still shocking to me, but the way she's acting is pretty well aligned with how she acted often times in our marriage. Very inconsiderate. It has really reminded me that there were so many times I didn't have a chance in the world of not getting angry, and she rarely showed any remorse for things she did. I always had to fish for an apology. One of the times I caught her being unfaithful to me, she got mad at me for being mad... she got up and tore every picture off the wall in our hallway. She always hated facing her faults. I definitely believe it now. I understand that I was awful, but I wasn't wrong about a lot of things. I doubt that she would have been happy, even had I been the model husband. Marriage... smh


You teach people how to treat you. Sounds like she learned well.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

lost_without_her said:


> A lot has changed since this post. I have decided we will not maintain a friendship. You're right. I don't need a friend like that. I'm honestly not sure why I tolerate so much from people. I just end up angry and making the relationship worse. I truly loved that woman, and I guess I just wanted to be accepted. I wanted to be the one. I wasn't.


Here's a question I know the answer to...

How many times did you actually do things that made you feel bad about yourself in an effort to get her to love you more?


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> Here's a question I know the answer to...
> 
> How many times did you actually do things that made you feel bad about yourself in an effort to get her to love you more?


I'm not sure I fully understand the question. There were A LOT of times that I felt bad for my reactions. I would initially be expressing my anger with a stern voice, but it was a lot like talking to a wall. My frustration would increase to the point of yelling and screaming. There were times that I told myself that it wasn't right, and I felt bad about myself for sinking to that level, but then I would turn around and think of the action that made me mad and just felt there was no outlet and it couldn't be helped. I was rarely ever satisfied by the end of our arguments, even when we reached a mutual agreement on how to proceed, because she never even really one time kept her end of the deal. I often felt she was just telling me what I wanted to hear, and that's if she had anything to say at all. So, my frustration just lingered. 

I often felt that everyone we knew thought I was a bad person. Everyone loves her to death, she is a very sweet and outgoing person. When we were fighting, I would just be cold and distant. I couldn't always hide it in public. One thing she did say more than once is that I always walked in front of her. I really never looked at it that way, I didn't mean to,I just walk fast. I should have made it a point to slow down. I wish instead of being mad, I'd have slowed down to walk with her and held her hand. I just felt that the pain she caused me was not unlike the neglect she felt when I didn't show her that kind of affection. It was always like her needs were a priority, and mine didn't truly matter. I felt like I had a sign on my forehead that says "damaged goods."

I felt terrible about myself every time I threatened divorce myself. My ego stayed bruised, and I stayed on the defense. I never meant it, and I never wanted it, but in my mind at the time, I thought it was going wake her up somehow and make her scared to lose me. I don't think she was ever really scared to lose me. I think in her mind, she always felt she could do better and I was somewhat disposable. I definitely made a fool of myself quite a few times. I'm not sure if that's the right answer to your question, but I'm interested to know what your answer is. Thanks.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lost_without_her said:


> I'm not sure I fully understand the question. There were A LOT of times that I felt bad for my reactions. I would initially be expressing my anger with a stern voice, but it was a lot like talking to a wall. My frustration would increase to the point of yelling and screaming. There were times that I told myself that it wasn't right, and I felt bad about myself for sinking to that level, but then I would turn around and think of the action that made me mad and just felt there was no outlet and it couldn't be helped. I was rarely ever satisfied by the end of our arguments, even when we reached a mutual agreement on how to proceed, because she never even really one time kept her end of the deal. I often felt she was just telling me what I wanted to hear, and that's if she had anything to say at all. So, my frustration just lingered.
> 
> I often felt that everyone we knew thought I was a bad person. Everyone loves her to death, she is a very sweet and outgoing person. When we were fighting, I would just be cold and distant. I couldn't always hide it in public. One thing she did say more than once is that I always walked in front of her. I really never looked at it that way, I didn't mean to,I just walk fast. I should have made it a point to slow down. I wish instead of being mad, I'd have slowed down to walk with her and held her hand. I just felt that the pain she caused me was not unlike the neglect she felt when I didn't show her that kind of affection. It was always like her needs were a priority, and mine didn't truly matter. I felt like I had a sign on my forehead that says "damaged goods."
> 
> I felt terrible about myself every time I threatened divorce myself. My ego stayed bruised, and I stayed on the defense. I never meant it, and I never wanted it, but in my mind at the time, I thought it was going wake her up somehow and make her scared to lose me. I don't think she was ever really scared to lose me. I think in her mind, she always felt she could do better and I was somewhat disposable. I definitely made a fool of myself quite a few times. I'm not sure if that's the right answer to your question, but I'm interested to know what your answer is. Thanks.


But how often did you forfeit your self respect in order to appease her? It sounds to me, reading what you just wrote, that your relationship with her primarily consisted of her baiting you into awkward situations she knew you were ill-equipped to handle, and then ensuring you looked like the bad guy in front of everyone to make herself look like a saint. 

I have been on the receiving end of this kind of malicious and insidious manipulation and I can testify it is maddening. I removed that dysfunction from my life and I truly believe that you will have a better life once you rid yourself of it. I'm not convinced she was the sweet Pollyanna you have painted her to be, while you were the mean insensitive ogre. She sounds like a manipulative little twat. She made everyone and even you feel bad about the negative situations that she herself created. That is some pretty sick and twisted stuff right there.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I'm not sure I fully understand the question. There were A LOT of times that I felt bad for my reactions. I would initially be expressing my anger with a stern voice, but it was a lot like talking to a wall. My frustration would increase to the point of yelling and screaming. There were times that I told myself that it wasn't right, and I felt bad about myself for sinking to that level, but then I would turn around and think of the action that made me mad and just felt there was no outlet and it couldn't be helped. I was rarely ever satisfied by the end of our arguments, even when we reached a mutual agreement on how to proceed, because she never even really one time kept her end of the deal. I often felt she was just telling me what I wanted to hear, and that's if she had anything to say at all. So, my frustration just lingered.
> 
> I often felt that everyone we knew thought I was a bad person. Everyone loves her to death, she is a very sweet and outgoing person. When we were fighting, I would just be cold and distant. I couldn't always hide it in public. One thing she did say more than once is that I always walked in front of her. I really never looked at it that way, I didn't mean to,I just walk fast. I should have made it a point to slow down. I wish instead of being mad, I'd have slowed down to walk with her and held her hand. I just felt that the pain she caused me was not unlike the neglect she felt when I didn't show her that kind of affection. It was always like her needs were a priority, and mine didn't truly matter. I felt like I had a sign on my forehead that says "damaged goods."
> 
> I felt terrible about myself every time I threatened divorce myself. My ego stayed bruised, and I stayed on the defense. I never meant it, and I never wanted it, but in my mind at the time, I thought it was going wake her up somehow and make her scared to lose me. I don't think she was ever really scared to lose me. I think in her mind, she always felt she could do better and I was somewhat disposable. I definitely made a fool of myself quite a few times. I'm not sure if that's the right answer to your question, but I'm interested to know what your answer is. Thanks.


Lost, I think all of this would be very good to share with a professional counselor. You could give them this post to read.

Do you have an appointment set up? I remember from one of your threads it was going to take a few weeks to get in.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

JLD, I have had a couple of sessions with a counselor, and I have been doing an anger management program that was recommended for my situation. It has been very helpful. I have discussed our conversations here with the counselor. She was interested to know what kind of advice I was getting from here. When I told her, she said she felt like she was about to rob me of my money, because a lot of what she had to say was repetitive. Other than a bit more specific guidance and some resources, I really didn't learn much from the counselor that I hadn't already learned here. She encouraged me to continue coming here as long as it was helpful, but just cautioned me to beware of bad advice and told me to come back if I need to. For the last week, I've been doing really well with my anger management exercises and coming to the board. Once I have everything settled financially, I'm going to start seeing someone on a regular basis to keep myself on track. I'm so grateful for you all! Thank you so much!


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Lost,

Are you familiar with the term "codependent rage"?


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

```

```



ReturntoZero said:


> Lost,
> 
> Are you familiar with the term "codependent rage"?



I am as of a couple of days ago.. it has to do with relying on everyone else but yourself to make you happy, and then becoming enraged when they disappoint you. Guilty as charged. Tonight, I don't even have the strength to process much. I had to put my dog down today, and it feels like the world is out to get me. Terrible timing. If I cry in my beer, I'll have the makings of a great country song.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

lost_without_her said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> I am as of a couple of days ago.. it has to do with relying on everyone else but yourself to make you happy, and then becoming enraged when they disappoint you. Guilty as charged. Tonight, I don't even have the strength to process much. I had to put my dog down today, and it feels like the world is out to get me. Terrible timing. If I cry in my beer, I'll have the makings of a great country song.


The sun rises tomorrow. That means another chance to get after it.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> The sun rises tomorrow. That means another chance to get after it.


It's supposed to rain tomorrow and all weekend, and it might as well.. But you know what? I have always loved the rain. It rained for 5 days straight from the minute she walked out the door, and I kid you not. Mind you, it doesn't rain here often.


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