# Need Support and Advice - World Turned Upside Down



## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the site and am really looking for some advice. 

Background: I've been with my wife for 15 years and married for 10. We have to beautiful children that are 8 and 5. I'm 36 and she is 33. 

Over the past two weeks it has been exposed that my wife had an affair. She says she has "fallen in love" with this guy. After the affair was exposed, she ended her relationship with him. She is now going through a real grieving process. Her affair started about 4 months ago with Facebook messaging. I accidentally came across one of the threads a few months ago and confronted my wife. She told me it was "nothing" and ended it. I told her to tell the other guy (who is also married, with a child) that I knew. She told me it was over. We moved passed it. Or so I thought.

2 months later I found out that she was having a real affair. She seemed to be getting more distant and one weekend went into what seemed to be total depression. She spent a week in her room crying and writing, not telling me what was going on. She said she needed space. I couldn't handle it, and started pressing for answers. Finally she came out and said. "I'm having and affair and in love with the other guy". I was devastated.

After getting over the initial shock, we started to discuss this. You much know I didn't fly off the handle or get angry or anything. Just hurt. What she began to disclose to me is that she had fallen out of love with me. That we've become two different people and that I work too hard and wasn't paying enough attention to her and the family. This is all true. I admit it. This is all stuff I would love the chance to work on, not just for her, but for myself.

I love her deeply and dearly, and got lost in "living life" and priorities got misaligned. I'd love the chance to really show her with words and actions how much I love her, our family and want this to work. Not in a "band-aid" way, but in a "lets build our dream" kind of way.

The problem is, she said she's been feeling like we've been drifting for a long time, and that she's been "faking" it and building resentment along the way. This is very hard to hear. She wonders if it's too late. She's skeptical if she can get that spark back.

We had our first counselling session this week, and stuff got out in the open. She is going to the next two sessions alone. We are in two different points, I want to work on our marriage now, and she's not sure if she wants to. I guess I have to be patient and see if she can get to that point.

Sorry for the long post, but I need advice. What should I do. Is this repairable. Is it worth trying. I want it more than anything, but I want to be realistic. 

This is torture.

Thanks in advance for the advice/support.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

hmmm.... cliche.

not in love anymore, feel like drifting each other. just let her alone and decide if she could love you back. 

i hate this kind of situation, but a spouse who feels like this is not worthed to be saved. let her decide herself and you can go to live your own life. it's a nonsense, not in love with you anymore... so what is the marriage vows then.

she is selfish and untrusted. but it is up to you, what would you do on this.

**** the cheaters, people who cheated, do not deserve to live. they better die in the bad ways. **** them


sorry if my comments are rude.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

What_to_do_now, is your wife still having the affair?

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

No. She stopped it a week ago. And i'm sure of it. She's going through the hurt and break up of that right now. She says she really loved him. (or at least the feeling). It's really ****ed up to be here and watch her go through a break-up while I'm still in the same house. 

She says she's resenting me right now, for making this end. She did go to counselling with me - willingly. She even suggested it. She's starting to talk about this more openly with family and friends. 

She's terrified of living a life without "love and passion" and not willing to compromise on that. She's just skeptical that that will come back with me. 

I don't know if it can either, but I want it more than anything, and am willing to do the personal and relationship work to do so. 

I never had the chance, she hasn't been honest about her feelings for the past 4 years......and it's only coming out now. I just hope its not too late. I don't think its fair if I don't get the chance. But I also know you can't "make" someone love you. 

My feeling is that her mind is totally clouded by this other guy, and its all too fresh and our relationship is being compared to "newness" and "infatuation" and "spark". Is it possible that once those feelings get farther away, she may want to work on our relationship without the skepticism?

Im so confused and hurt. And I've clearly never known anything to be so sure in my life. Right now I'd change careers, habits, hobbies...basically anything. She is the life I want. I was foolish to let us drift.


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## mommy2 (Oct 27, 2009)

Sorry you are going thru this. YES, it is possible to work through this but it will be a tough road. 

Similar situation with the growing apart, resentment, etc. When my H admitted his A I didn't get mad/angry either. Just scared that my marriage would end. Initially he told me he wasn't in love with me anymore and when I asked if we could try to work it out, he said he wasn't sure. We talked, alot, more than we had in years and I asked him for a second chance. I said that we had 14 yrs of marriage and that we deserved to give it a chance. I asked if he could at least try to make it work, knowing it may not. He did and we both are so happy!

Going to counseling is good and hopefully the counselor can help you find ways to reconnect. The important thing is to focus on you and your marriage. The affair is not the focus. (as hard as that is) You need to discover how you got disconnected and reconnect. We have improved so many things in my marriage and sadly, some were so easy and quite embarassing to admit that we had done. As simple as complimenting each other everyday, etc.

Good Luck to you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

What_to_do_now, I tend to view these things different to others. Here’re my thoughts. They come from being married nearly 40 years with affairs on both sides.

You are in competition with the other man. This competition is direct competition and it is happening right now. You wife is looking at you and OM and the OM is winning. Your wife is in your home but her affections are with OM.

You are in love with your wife as you knew her before her affair. Your wife has changed dramatically. From being a loyal, honest and faithful woman she is now a disloyal, dishonest and unfaithful woman. I think you need to contemplate for a while if you can be in love with a woman like that. With my wife I had the thought “I was in love with who she was, I couldn’t love who she became”. So can you be in love with a woman who is disloyal, dishonest and unfaithful? There aren’t many answers to that question. “No I can’t”, “Yes I can”, “I don’t know as yet”. Assuming it’s the last two ….

Lets have a look at the competitive side. It will help to think of yourself and OM as two “products” and your wife is the “client”. Your are selling your product, which is yourself.

You will get nowhere with your wife if at this point in time you “own up to your faults”. There’s a time for that later, the time is not now. If you admit to your faults, in your wife’s head your “score” goes down, the OM’s score goes up. And be as sure as heck, OM is not admitting to his faults. So by admitting your faults you are doing yourself harm not just in your wife’s eyes but also in your own. And OM will laugh all the way to the bank.

Never plead or beg by saying you will do anything, change in anyway to keep her. Why not? Your wife is not looking for OM to change, he already has what she wants. Keep begging and pleading not only will you demean and degrade yourself to your wife you will also demean and degrade yourself to yourself … and OM will laugh all the way to the bank.

By admitting your faults and promising to make whatever changes she wants all you are doing is PROMOTING THE QUALITIES AND BENEFITS OF THE OM!!!! AND REDUCING THE QUALITIES AND BENEFITS OF YOURSELF!!! These in the eyes and heart of your wife. By doing those things you are giving power and influence to the OM IN BUCKET FULLS. And OM will laugh all the way to the bank

I’ve more to let you know about, but I want to check with you if the above makes sense to you first. So please let me know one way or another.

Cheers for now

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

AFEH (Bob),

I see your point, and I can't help but agree with you. I am in a competition. Unfortunately, I feel it's not really a fair fight. I can't get "close" to my wife. We're not "dating". We have this "heaviness" hanging over us, and I'm getting all the "bad" energy and he's getting all the "good".

What can I do? How do I start to appear my "best" when I can't really do the things that would make me appear in my best light?

I've already started to step up the things I was "neglecting". I already dropped 15 pounds and am getting in shape. This is happening quickly. I've been doing all kinds of stuff to help out around the house. I just feel that this is all "superficial" stuff that doesn't have the emotional element attached to it.

Do I stay on this course and just do what I can and wait? 

What do you suggest? I'm struggling with tactics (not that this is a game - this is real deal life changing stuff i'm doing for me) that will help illustrate that I mean business and I really listened to what she said. I've accepted a lot of responsibility for allowing us to "drift", now I want to show her I'm going to do everything in my power to allow us to reconnect.

I just don't know how to do this. Plus, i'm probably being too eager and rushing things and my expectations.

It's hard to stay positive and know you're doing the right thing when she delivers those punishing lines like "I'm not sure I can fall back in love with you". I know she can, cuz i'm an amazing guy....and I fell off course. I'm right on course right now...i hope.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You will need that self confidence What_to_do_now. It will depend on what your self esteem is like. You need good self esteem for this stuff, those with low self esteem don’t get very far. You certainly don’t sound like you are over confident, which is good.

You need to present your self as a strong and confident man. You need to be assertive but in a compassionate way. You have a changed situation so you need new personal boundaries to protect yourself and those that you love, your wife and children.

We’ll come to the boundaries later. You know you are in a competition and you’ve taken it on board to stop lowering your chances by demeaning yourself by admitting to your faults and saying you’ll change to whatever. That’s very important. 

Now you need to find out as much as you can about the OM. He is your competition and you need to know your competition as well as you can. The reasons are two fold. So you know his bad side and you can subtle point that out to your wife “I don’t know why you want to go with a guy who’s done this and that, but that’s your choice”. It’s called FUD, Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, but it must be subtle, they think on it later.

Secondly and perhaps more importantly it’s to protect your wife from him if he turns out to be a seriously bad guy. The guy my wife had fallen for had 3 previous marriage, he’d lost them all through his adultery and he had a lightning quick very aggressive temper. He was a mate for a while so I knew him. I just said to my wife “Well you know he’s had three divorces through his adultery, you’ve heard of his temper from others but if you want to be with him that’s your choice. I wont stop you. Personally I think he just wants to get into your pants. He’s a long term partner and I reckon soon he’ll be off back to her”.

So find out as much a you can about the OM. Is he married, does he have children? Does he have a home? What’s his financial situation like? If he’s divorced how many times had he been married? What you do know already is that the OM is a real scumbag. He’s after a married woman. He is more than prepared to break up a marriage and all the trauma for the husband and children that goes along with it. So marriage has no meaning for him. Vows have no meaning for him and because of that his credibility and integrity is at zero level, a real scumbag.

What_to_do_now, I’m going to do this in “chunks”. Next I’ll get onto N.U.T.s. but for now take a read of http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.

For now don’t try and get close to your wife, it wont work. Just maintain an emotional distance and observe her, don’t try and interact other than with practical everyday things.

Bob


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> She stopped it {the affair} a week ago. And i'm sure of it. She's going through the hurt and break up of that right now. She says she really loved him. (or at least the feeling). It's really ****ed up to be here and watch her go through a break-up while I'm still in the same house.
> 
> She says she's resenting me right now, for making this end. She did go to counselling with me - willingly. She even suggested it. She's starting to talk about this more openly with family and friends.
> 
> She's terrified of living a life without "love and passion" and not willing to compromise on that. She's just skeptical that that will come back with me.


This is completely normal. It takes some time for the 'addiction' to the zing she felt from the Other Guy to die. Same with a drug addict: withdrawal takes some time, and in the withdrawal period, the person losing the addiction is not thinking clearly and can say and do things that are not their normal nature. For now, let those things slide: you'll have plenty of time in a week or two for things to start changing.



> The problem is, she said she's been feeling like we've been drifting for a long time, and that she's been "faking" it and building resentment along the way.


This is also quite normal - most affairs happen for JUST THIS REASON. Someone _else_ comes along and provides what was missing (or at least perceived to be missing). 

As for the skepticism - that is also a very normal reaction: for a long time things have not been conducive to a healthy marriage, and from her point of view, how can she know that things will change? 

You wrote:



> That we've become two different people and that I work too hard and wasn't paying enough attention to her and the family. This is all true. I admit it. This is all stuff I would love the chance to work on, not just for her, but for myself


You explain her thoughts: 



> ...we've become two different people and that I work too hard and wasn't paying enough attention to her and the family. This is all true. I admit it. This is all stuff I would love the chance to work on, not just for her, but for myself
> 
> The problem is, she said she's been feeling like we've been drifting for a long time, and that she's been "faking" it and building resentment along the way. This is very hard to hear. She wonders if it's too late. She's skeptical if she can get that spark back.
> 
> This is very hard to hear. She wonders if it's too late. She's skeptical if she can get that spark back.


In a way I disagree with Bob here. There is _nothing wrong_ with accepting responsibility for your actions. His advice to discount her thoughts as if they are unimportant and irrelevant - in order to 'make you look better than the other guy' means that he is asking you to treat her with a lack of respect. And he expects this to make her desire you more. (Sure, women love men who refuse to respect them! Just ask women who've been unfaithful - they will most certainly tell you "I had to cheat because my husband treated me with respect!") However: discounting her thoughts and in essence refusing to accept the idea that you had a part in the problems in your marriage (at least for a while while you compete with some other guy that will most likely be gone in a year or two anyway - affairs rarely last) is pretty much doing the exact same thing that created an problem that she chose to 'fix' by cheating. That is - refusing to pay attention to WHY she went after this other guy.

This is stuff you NEED to work on - the 'chance' you speak of is always right in front of you: simply do it. Nothing is stopping you from making changes in your life! It's merely a matter of making your mind up to do it, and then getting busy on it. 

These things take time, however: keep that in mind, especially if you look at it with any form of empathy for your wife: it would be very easy to change for a week or two - even a month or two: the real issue is making these changes permanent. THAT'S what she needs to see.

Personally, I agree with Bob's point to a degree - it is very close to what I would advise: I'd make one caveat: don't simply talk about the problems. ACT on solving them. That is far more important than making promises. Simply acknowledge them and move on. In fact, there isn't much need to talk about them at all. As long as you acknowledge your responsibility. The actual task is to improve.

You offer this: 



> I never had the chance, she hasn't been honest about her feelings for the past 4 years......and it's only coming out now. I just hope its not too late. I don't think its fair if I don't get the chance. But I also know you can't "make" someone love you.


My guess is that you had the chance - that she actually was telling you about the problem - most likely not very clearly, and certainly not effectively. Many people fear confrontation and move in more passive ways. But I've been at this a long time: from her view point she most likely feels like she DID try to tell you - and you paid 'no' attention (again - from her viewpoint). From your position, she simply didn't let you know what was happening. Almost every affair takes a spouse by surprise: we all tend to live in an illusion that things are well - right up until things fall apart. I've seen this too many times not to make some connection here. 

The key to a strong marriage is communication: being able to state things in a way that your spouse understands. It also hinges on absolute transparent honesty. Keeping something hidden from your spouse ultimately ends the marriage - even if it takes years. They know you are hiding something: and resent it. So: both of you need to learn to communicate effectively, with transparent honesty - and do it in a loving manner. 



> I see your point, and I can't help but agree with you. I am in a competition. Unfortunately, I feel it's not really a fair fight. I can't get "close" to my wife. We're not "dating". We have this "heaviness" hanging over us, and I'm getting all the "bad" energy and he's getting all the "good".
> 
> What can I do? How do I start to appear my "best" when I can't really do the things that would make me appear in my best light?


Why not? What is stopping you? The 'fog' lifts over time: she will begin to assess the situation more clearly. The only reason she wouldn't is if the affair has not ended. There are steps that you can both take to assure this happens - things that again Bob would argue against (for example: making it a condition to remain in the marriage only if she writes a No Contact letter of which you approve, that _you_ read and _you_ send to Quagmire.) 

Regardless: 

There is nothing stopping you from appearing your best except you. She can't stop you: she is entirely outside of you, she cannot control you. Do it regardless of her present state of mind. Allow the fog to dissipate, and let her see you for what you are. 



> ...I'm struggling with tactics (not that this is a game - this is real deal life changing stuff i'm doing for me) that will help illustrate that I mean business and I really listened to what she said. I've accepted a lot of responsibility for allowing us to "drift", now I want to show her I'm going to do everything in my power to allow us to reconnect.


Tactic 1: change for the better. _Don't expect instant gratification_. It takes time to overcome personal weaknesses and replace bad habits with good ones. Do it _regardless_ of her reaction. Over time she will see. _Over time!_ If she doesn't - her loss, not yours! Regardless of her choice: YOU will have improved.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> This is completely normal. It takes some time for the 'addiction' to the zing she felt from the Other Guy to die. Same with a drug addict: withdrawal takes some time, and in the withdrawal period, the person losing the addiction is not thinking clearly and can say and do things that are not their normal nature. For now, let those things slide: you'll have plenty of time in a week or two for things to start changing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same old same. I haven't seen it work anywhere here.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

I have to thank you all. I stumbled across this site in my "panic and anxiety" for information. 

I can't believe how amazing and helpful you all are. It's amazing how important relationships are and it's a great feeling that there are people there (here) to support those in one of their greatest times of need, confidence and information.

I'm truly grateful and completely terrified. After reading the past few responses, i'm starting to realize that I am actually in control of what the outcome may be. I don't just have to sit and wait. How I act and how I present myself during the next few days, weeks and months will go a long way.....even when now, i'm feeling less than hopeful (only cuz of what she has said).

Thanks again.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

What_do_I_do_now~

Just so you are aware, there have been times when AFEH has disagreed with Tanelornpete and I, and I want to be sure you realize that we do not take the same route but we do respect each other enough to agree to disagree. And what's funny is that we don't really disagree that much--I think our main contention is about taking personal responsibility. 

We do not support blaming the loyal spouse (LS) as some try to make it sound. Your wife is 100% fully responsible for her choices to be unfaithful and go outside her marriage to have her needs met. When a disloyal spouse (DS) has the courage to come here and write, we do the exact same to them as we do to any LS--namely, "Your spouse is not here. We can not change your spouse. But you ARE here and you can change yourself." 

You yourself mention that it is true that you "...work too hard and wasn't paying enough attention to her and the family" and that you'd love to have a second chance. As Bob and Tanelornpete have both pointed out, you can change whether she notices or not...because it will make you a better man and better husband. Also as Bob pointed out, the natural response to finding out this news (panic, begging, promising to change, etc.) is actually counter-intuitive to what would actually be helpful in this situation. 

You want "tactics" about how to approach this, and I think both of the fellas have given you some solid advice. However, let me speak to you from a lady's point of view. For the sake of identification, I'd like you to imagine the love in your marriage as a bonfire. There are actions you can do that add kindling to the fire and make it blaze--actions like paying attention to each other, having a fulfilling sex life, keeping yourself attractive, spending time together having fun, being romantic, etc. My guess is that you could probably think of these kinds of actions. There are other actions though that extinguish the fire--actions like emotional neglect, angry outbursts, or treating your spouse disrespectfully--and then lead to things like withholding sex and "drifting apart." Think back on the fights you've had: remember hearing those harsh words and having a little bit of your heart hurt...more and more until it wasn't such "little " bits anymore but now big chunks? 

What you often hear as advice--from regular people and even from professionals--is to try rekindle the love in your marriage by doing those kindler activities. Other folks will say, "Heck with that! Do a 180 and make HER do the kindler actions to you!" Both are sort of valuable in that they are not utterly untrue--in fact you do need to return to doing those kindling activities, and for the love to grow and the marriage to be healthy, eventually she will need to also do the kindling activity back to you. But have you ever tried doing those kindler activities (like now) and it feels like it's doing no good? As if the effort is wasted and somehow it's missing the mark? That's because from the DS's point of view, there has been so much extinguisher stuff put on the fire that it's hopeless now. It's not accurate, but Disloyals are discouraged and while they were in their affair, they magnified the negative in the marriage and the positive in the affair. 

SOOOOOO...if you spend time only on doing the kindler things that would build love, but do not spend time on the extinguisher things as well, it is the rough equivalent of pouring water into a bucket filled with holes. 

Now, people do mistakenly believe that by addressing this, we (Tanelorn and I) are "blaming" the Loyal. Nope. What we are doing is addressing the person who is here, and not avoiding the changes for which that person is responsible. In your specific instance, to be completely right up front, I bet you can tell now that working too hard extinguished the love fire for your wife...so did not paying attention to her. Now, the blaze is almost out for her and she's being pretty honest with you. She's not sure if she can get the blaze back and the OM did start a bit of a fire by doing some kindler-type things.... So yep you can indeed add some kinder things again if you want--that's cool--but if you kindle, then extinguish, then kindle, then extinguish what happens? That fire just can NOT get started! It feels like spinning wheels, right? Recognize that? To stop the spinning wheels it's not just starting those kindlers again, but at the same time, to be working on those extinguisher things. Furthermore, whether she notices or accepts those things is kind of irrelevant because re-starting those actions that make the love blaze and ending those actions that put out the flame are just becoming the man you have the potential to be! 

Another common misunderstanding is that we tell the LS to be a doormat and do loving things for their DS while their DS is still involved in an active affair--thus basically letting the Loyal be a cuckold. However, to be more precise and utterly clear, the truth is that we encourage two things simultaneously--we call it CARROT and STICK. "Carrot" is this competition part that AFEH is telling you about. It's the kindler actions and it's also being a strong, secure individual. The "Carrot" is showing your Disloyal that you are an attractive option, and demonstrating by your actions that you can be the man you have the potential to be, be the man who attracted her in the first place, and be the kind of guy who can meet her needs. But that is not where we stop and sadly people do try to project that we stop there. Nope. There is also the "Stick." Just like stopping the extinguishers needs to occur at the same time as starting the kindlers--same here. You could do the "Carrot" for forever and you would be a better person but it really would be like a doormat...a cuckold. At the same time you also MUST do the "Stick." The "Stick" part would be allowing your DS to experience the consequences of choosing to have an affair. Often people have the misunderstanding that when their spouse makes a bad choice, that they are being loving when they cover up their spouse's mistake and make it so they avoid the consequences. Nope!! Your DS is a grown, adult, responsible woman and SHE chose to have her needs met outside the marriage. She made the choice, so allow her to experience the consequences! That doesn't mean "punish her" but rather that you will stand for and support your marriage but you WILL NOT support adultery! You won't move out, you won't support it financially, you won't "give her time" etc. This is the "Stick" and quite perfectly in sync with Divorcebusting 180 and Boundaries. 

Here's why. 

What you say with the "Carrot" is "I get it. There were some things I did that I will act on and that will demonstrate to you that I can meet your needs." What you say with the "Stick" is not controlling her or making her stop by force, but rather "I made a vow to forsake all others, and I intend to honor that promise. I will accept no less from my life partner. I expect 100% of your affection and loyalty for me only" (see how that's a boundary?) "I will not offer my kindlers, my finances and my support to adultery. I am not the one wanting to break the promise so I will not be moving, nor will the kids." 

The "Carrot" without the "Stick" is being a doormat. The "Stick" without the "Carrot" is control, because it dismisses the concerns of your spouse as if they mean nothing. You are in the marriage and your concerns and your needs are very important--but your spouse is equally part of the same marriage and thus her concerns and needs are just as important. 

Sooooo... for a tactic let me make it simple. Honestly I agree completely with AFEH and Tanelorn. I don't think you need to make promises to her about what you will or will not do. In her ears it will probably sound like "Yeah I've heard THAT before." Put off the old habits of neglect and working too hard, and PUT ON the new habits of attention and making work have it's proper place and making home have it's proper place. Just do the actions and let your actions demonstrate newness to her. If she truly has ended her affair, she will be going through some sorrow and grief, and I'm sure it's difficult to hear it, but if you can't hear it--just give her a hug now and then and let her know you're there for her. Finally, I suggest taking a long weekend (Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon) and taking her away to do something fun. Almost everyone says, "Oh we can't afford that!" or "We don't have time for that, we have three toddlers" but I suggest that you make the effort to FIND the time because this long weekend will help in re-establishing a connection and re-establishing a positive association. Is there someplace you two have always wanted to go? This fancy hotel or that concert? This remote cabin or that amusement park? Then just go there--and start finding something that you and your wife can do together for fun, recreationally. Once you two are "friends" and are having "fun" together again, she will begin to enjoy being with you and from there it's not a huge jump to kindle, kindle and boom! The flame blazes and love is back.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Another piece of advice I'd like about my situation. So my wife says she's stopped her relationship with OM (who she says she REALLY loves) and I can't get it out of my head that this guy is a total douche bag. This OM is married and has a child. I've only met him once or twice and I know his wife slightly better. Just very casual friends. She is a friend of mine on Facebook though.

I asked my wife if OM's wife knew. She said yes and that there marriage is a little (or was already) a little "shaky". My wife said that OM told her that he and his wife were going to counselling. I'm not sure if I believe all of this and this is just stuff he was "feeding" my wife about his status to seem more attractive and available.

I cringe at the thought that this guy could be getting away with this period. I want to know that his wife knows and that his marriage is going through the same hell-ish ramifications that mine is.

My question is, should I reach out to his wife? Or would that do more harm. My gut tells me that this would really irk my wife and likely push her farther away but on the other hand if everything is totally out in the open on both sides, it should almost guarantee that the affair is over.

Any suggestions?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> Another piece of advice I'd like about my situation. So my wife says she's stopped her relationship with OM (who she says she REALLY loves) and I can't get it out of my head that this guy is a total douche bag. This OM is married and has a child. I've only met him once or twice and I know his wife slightly better. Just very casual friends. She is a friend of mine on Facebook though.
> 
> I asked my wife if OM's wife knew. She said yes and that there marriage is a little (or was already) a little "shaky". My wife said that OM told her that he and his wife were going to counselling. I'm not sure if I believe all of this and this is just stuff he was "feeding" my wife about his status to seem more attractive and available.
> 
> ...


I would tell my wife that because of her lies and deceptions I don’t trust her as yet and it’s going to take a while for her to get my trust back. As part of that process I have called OM’s wife and we are going out for a coffee and a chat about our circumstances.

If my wife we’re to object I’d simply say you have nothing to fear because as you told me OM’s wife knows what’s been going.

Bob


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi there, I think you have it right, I think exposure at this point is your best bet at stopping the affair, and if you have an ally on the other end it cannot hurt....
Affairs only survive in secrecy once it's out in the open and everyone has to be accountable it's not as much fun.......
It's a fantasy world, once the real world gets tangled into that it soon fizzles out.......Your wife in in the affair fog big time and only time away from the OM will help this lift, for now all you can do is interact calmly and loving. Tell her that you still love her and you are willing to work through the marital issues.....If and when she is ready.........Tell her you won't stand in her way if she choses the other life........
I think when you actually make her do the thinking of what her life will really be like then she might not think it's such a great deal.....He probably won't leave his wife and his life......I'm going to guess your wife really isn't that important to him, maybe your wife already knows this, maybe him staying with his wife to work things out has already proven to her what her purpose was to him........
Just be there for her, show her the great man you are, let her see the differences.........when you talk to her, look into her eyes......brush against her(by accident of course, hehe!!) Try to give her a hug, something about that physical connect that warms the heart.........
Go very slowly, read and educate yourself on repairing your relationship.......
Give her time to go through the withdrawal and hopeful the fog won't take to long to lift........


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

How long does this "fog" usually take? It's amazing that this is almost formulaic. I just want her to snap out of this fog.

Also, when they snap out of the "fog" (if they do), is there usually remorse for the stuff they said? Do they admit there was a fog? What does the other side look like?


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi there, 
I'm not an expert by any means there are a lot of people with a lot more experience with this on this site,
This is my story, when I first found out about my husband's affair, he claimed he wasn't in love with me and that he now loved the OW, that was last Nov........I said I still love you but if that is what you want then go and I ask him not to see the OW while we still lived together and worked out our separation agreement, he said he would wait and not see her anymore......until he moved out.......
He was home every night, didn't go out on weekends anymore, she was also married and going through her own separation.....
We made our deal, I went to the bank opened new accounts everything was set for him to go.....all the financials were in place......nothing left to do.......
I had told him all along that I was never the one out of love but I couldn't have any kind of relationship with him while he was with his OW........we have 2 grown boys that when they found out, totally ignored him for a few months......
i think not seeing the OW, having me say Okay this is what you want go, the boys not speaking to him........I think he could finally see what he had done and what he was giving up to have a woman he had only know for a couple of months, we had been married 27 years.........
He asked me a few times If I would consider giving us another chance.......but at the same time he was still telling me his feelings for OW......I booked a trip to Florida just to get some relief of him still living there, by the way lots of excuses to why he couldn't find a house he liked well enough to buy.......
He ask if he could come to Florida and he did, 10 days, we had a great time as friends, I had asked him to be out by a certain date and that was only a couple of weeks from the trip to Florida......I could see that over the couple of months, he had changed, he cried all the time about what he had done and how he had ruined our lives and he now was saying that he didn't know what he felt for the OW all he knew was he couldn't handle the thought of not having me in his life......
The OW had left her husband and was living by herself at this point.......One day he came home and told me he had told her that he was staying with me and his family, he gave me all his phone accounts and passwords and told me he wanted to make the rest of his life about making up for what he had done to our family and us.........this whole process happened over a 3 month period, he still crys a lot about what he has done, almost a year later........he is truly the man that I have ever wanted, and now he can see that he only convinced himself of a lot of the details and that it was about his weakness and it really didn't have anything to do with me........He describes himself as selfish and hurtful, he feels bad about the OM.........but he says he doesn't have any feelings for her.......he said he has always loved me and truly regrets what he decided to do........he is also disappointed in himself.......
It's a slow process but I think self reflection happens for them as well.........


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> How long does this "fog" usually take? It's amazing that this is almost formulaic. I just want her to snap out of this fog.
> 
> Also, when they snap out of the "fog" (if they do), is there usually remorse for the stuff they said? Do they admit there was a fog? What does the other side look like?


It’s akin to teenage love. Idealistic and idolistic. It’s why we have to become the parent of the “child” at these times, another reason for putting up personal boundaries. It’s pointless having an “adult to adult” conversation with them. It’s also what’s not nice about this stuff, being forced into behaving as a parent to a child, when we really want to be married to an adult.

As a parent to a teenager we could and should try it as “adult to adult” but that’s probably only got an equal probability of working.

But you’re dealing with an adult who has what is akin to a teenage idealistic and idolistic love for another man. How long does it take? Depends on the depth of the feeling for OM. That feeling will probably never go away completely, much the same way as our teenage love for somebody else is always there in some residual form. But with good planning and a bit of luck after a while if it all works out it should no longer be a significant aspect of your marriage.

They may or may not admit there was a “fog”. They will see it as “love” and not a fog. If they say anything else that will be manipulation for some reason or another. They may admit to being naive, in the same way a teenager might admit to that.

Remorse? Again that’s a maybe. Some are some aren’t. If they do show genuine remorse then you know you’ve truly got her back. In fact if they’re not remorseful I think I’d end the marriage as they’ll be likely to do it again.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

jessi said:


> Hi there,
> I'm not an expert by any means there are a lot of people with a lot more experience with this on this site,
> This is my story, when I first found out about my husband's affair, he claimed he wasn't in love with me and that he now loved the OW, that was last Nov........I said I still love you but if that is what you want then go and I ask him not to see the OW while we still lived together and worked out our separation agreement, he said he would wait and not see her anymore......until he moved out.......
> He was home every night, didn't go out on weekends anymore, she was also married and going through her own separation.....
> ...


That's the way to do it Jessi. It takes inner strength and independence to do what you did. You closed the door very quickly to him even though you didn’t really want to. But by doing that you got the result you wanted.

You didn’t turn yourself into a doormat by promising to change and demonstrating your love to him by providing him with support while the affair was still under way. You just put your boundaries up and made the decision to go his and his alone. And you came out of it with your head held high.

I really do hope your husband learns to forgive himself so he can move forward and away from what went on in the past. I really do. I’m guessing you’ve forgiven him already?

Good luck with your marriage Jessi and bless you. Best regards to your husband. Sometimes the best lessons in life are the toughest to learn. It’s the way of life.

If I’ve misinterpreted anything you said just let me know.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

With my situation..everything is pretty fresh. Affair got exposed about 1 week ago. We've already been to one counselling session and she has an individual session (with the same counsellor) again this week to start working on "her" issues.

I was wondering when its ok to try and start working on some of the "romantic" parts of recovery. For example, she's admitted she's in love with the other dude, she's in the "fog". When is it ok for me to come home from work one day and take her on a date - maybe to the movies?

Is it way to early for that? Would I be doing more damage? Should I wait for the "fog" to lift a little before that?


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## Almostthere (Oct 31, 2010)

Rather than think of it as romantic why not look at it as quality time. This might help take the pressure off. Couples should always have some time together to relax and chill etc and now is as good a time as any.
Dont forget to take some time for yourself too, you need to keep your head clear and confidence intact.
Remember there is only so much in this situation you can control so focus on the things you can change, (mainly you and your reaction ),and avoid trying to change the things you cant,( the way your wife is reacting).
Getting as much info as you can on affairs and recovery will certainly help you understand the situation and how to cope, and its always comforting to know that there are others feeling the same way or who have had similar experiences.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Her first SOLO visit to the counsellor is happening tonight. We've been once as a couple. She booked an individual appointment right away.

I hadn't intended to go by myself, but i'm second guessing that decision. I'm thinking I should go and get in front of the counsellor and make sure she hears how I feel, and my side of the story so that information can help guide us towards the most appropriate decision. 

I figure the lack of me showing up solo, doesn't put ALL the information on the table.

Thoughts and suggestions? Am I on the right track with this thinking?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> Her first SOLO visit to the counsellor is happening tonight. We've been once as a couple. She booked an individual appointment right away.
> 
> I hadn't intended to go by myself, but i'm second guessing that decision. I'm thinking I should go and get in front of the counsellor and make sure she hears how I feel, and my side of the story so that information can help guide us towards the most appropriate decision.
> 
> ...


How many personal boundaries do you have now ... and what are they?

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

I've managed to come up with a few:

- My family comes first
- I try and be understanding
- I need to speak my mind in order to come to conclusions (i think out loud)
- I do whatever it takes to make things happen
- Patience over temper


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

So she came home from her individual counselling session. I'm not sure what I expected but it wasn't a good feeling for me. She came home, didn't elaborate and went to the bedroom to "write". I'm still sleeping down on the couch. 

I asked her how it went and if she was ok. She said "no, not really". 

All the signals point to her not wanting to really give our marriage a try. I think this is so horrible. 9 years of marriage (been together 15), and a young family......and to not even try. 

Remember, I was blindsided. No fighting in the past, no drinking issues.....only stuff that she's kept to herself and not shared with me. She's let the build up inside, then she has an affair and suddenly i'm here. Feeling like I may not even get a shot. 

So, so selfish. Sorry, for regressing. Tonight is a bad night for me. I just want some clarity.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Actually, what_to_do (and RWB by default), we do not disagree one bit! You can look on our site and see that we advocate the Seven Steps to End an Affair and each step gradually adds more pressure. Step two is talk to them directly (Confront) which give the Disloyal a chance to end it with dignity. Step three is Disclose to one other person such as a parent, pastor, mentor, who just MAY talk some sense into them--again only one person knows and they have the chance to maintain some pride if they just end it. Step four is Expose to all those who would be affected by a possible divorce (parents and siblings, children, lifelong friends, both employers, and the OP and OP's spouse). 

We do in fact encourage Loyal Spouses to speak to the Other Person pretty much just like the confront step. Honestly this is a person who'd cheat with a married person and lie to cover it up, so you can't expect them to "do the right thing"--but we encourage LS's to say something like "This is to put you on notice that I have proof you are having an affair with my spouse and I do not intend to go quietly into the night. I will fight for my wife/husband and for my family. I'm asking you to end all contact right now and stop."  I doubt that will change anything except that it let's the OP know you aren't rolling over and playing dead--it will get back to your Disloyal--and it gives the LS some backbone back. 

(Our other steps also continue with not having the LS's be doormats. Step five is "Carrot AND STICK" which is not punishment but allowing the DS to experience the natural consequence of their choices. Step six is "No Contact" which ends all contact with the DS until they agree to give 100% of their affection and loyalty to the Loyal and ending all the affair drama for the LS. Step seven is "Legal Separation" so the DS feels what real divorce would be like, not their fantasy idea of "staying friends.")

HOWEVER, my main thought/concern about contacting the OP is this: I know if it were me, I would probably not be able to contain my anger and I'd want to scratch her eyes out. That would NOT improve the chances of recovering the marriage or ending the affair! lol So for me, I would advise speaking face-to-face if you have that kind of self-control...otherwise I suggest a well-written letter or an email. You being in jail for attempted murder won't save the marriage. 

It doesn't sound to me like she's willing to be transparent yet though, and to my mind that is a MAJOR concern. As I mentioned before, I'd recommend: 

1) A No Contact Letter (she writes it/you mail it)
2) Personal Transparency
3) Commitment to working on the marriage

Or I'd recommend packing for her and calling her mom telling her to expect her daughter.


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## olddeer (Nov 1, 2010)

Well, I do not have a husband who has had an affair, nor have I had an affair. BUT other men have been on my mind for a long, long time. Why? Because my husband hasn't been here, physically yes, but not mentally, for a long time. So "what_to_do_now" it's going to take a lot of work for her to find those feelings once again for you. I think she had an affair because that's what she was looking for.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Well. This morning things are way different than last night. I was woken by her in the middle of the night. And she decided to talk, and committed to me that it was over between her and OM. She suggested we craft an "ending" email to him that closed the door forever. We both wrote this email together and then deleted her "special" account. 

She showed true remorse for what she did and started to take responsibility. HUGE steps. 

I know we'll still have a lot of work to do. But I am the happiest guy alive right now.

It's going to be hard for the next little while, because my tendancy will be to move fast....and she's still got a lot of grieving, mourning and detachment from the "euphoric/drug" feeling of this. 

She still has to fall back "in love" with me.....because right now, there's definitely piece of mind still on OM.

I think this is all good stuff. No?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Woke you in the middle of the night to talk and she's showing remorse, couldn't have been better WTDN. Looks like she's started in a really good way to put it behind her.

Bob


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Looks good so far, the key is to be patient with her as she makes her way back to the marriage.......
Just be the best guy you can be, look good, smell good.....take care of little things for her, she will notice.
Tell her you have always loved her and you think she is worth any work it might take to re-build the relationship......
Tell her you look at this as an opportunity to have a great life with a great woman.....
good luck
(((hugs)))


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Update: Been a decent couple of days. Definite mood swings. Wife has decided to stay and work on things. Fantastic. Hard part is that she is completely honest. 

She has told me that half her heart is with me and half her heart is with OM. Obviously, the lustful and passionate part is with him. I see her "leave" in her mind a few times a day and long for him. Very hard to see. She's still not in love with me....but loves me deeply. 

Any advice and tips on what I can do to not let this affect me? It's very hard on the ego and self esteem to know that she's loving someone else but dedicated to you.

Looking for help.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Work with that, "dedicated to you"
That in its self was an ego boost for me.
She left the other man for you, so prove to her that she made the right choice. Show confidence, and chicks love compliments, do the things you would have done to get her to go out with you so many years ago.
Flirt with her and take her out. The last thing you want is the same old thing. 
I was pissed when I found out but I knew I had to show change, I felt I had to compete, so I went all out as far as wooing her back.
Do the things that sound really corny they dig that. I wrote love letters and gave her a card w/ old photes of us. When doing or writing these things stay away from the past, and focus on positive things that she likes.
And dont forget the compliments, women love it when you notice what their wearing.
Good luck


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Good advice "the guy".

Im really finding it hard right now to stay positive. At this very point in time, my needs aren't being met. i want to feel close, I want her to want to touch me, hug me and hold hands with me. 

It's so hard, she wants to be here and try, which is amazing. It's so hard to know you're number 2 in her heart right now. I feel so mopey and down. How do I not do this? How do I not let her see me in this light. 

I want and need her to "fall back in love with me", which I know she will, in time. It's just getting through the next month and not messing it up. It's REALLY REALY hard to not be down. 

Is it too soon to suggest dates, and write love letters and stuff? Should I wait until a litter more of the heartache for the OM fades? 
It's really messed up to be here and know she's having heartache over another man that she loves. I want her to love me.

uggggggh.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> ... Im really finding it hard right now to stay positive. At this very point in time, my needs aren't being met. i want to feel close, I want her to want to touch me, hug me and hold hands with me.


When the affair has ended, that is just the end of Part One. Now you and your wife need to move to Part Two, which is rebuilding a healthy, loving marriage. The marriage you had before was toxic enough that neither one of you were getting your needs met and an affair was the result. So THIS new marriage is going ot have to be different. That means that you, what_to_do_now, are going to have to change. One of the things I usually suggest is taking a long weekend to do something fun together. Get a fancy hotel room, order room service, and do nothing but downtown shopping. Go to a secluded cabin on the mountain and try painting. The point is not the "romance" so much as just starting a new habit of doing something fun together. Have you done this yet? Why not? Arrange it for next weekend! 

Regarding having your needs met, in a way it is normal to be where you are right now (her: sad and mopey, you: feeling like you want needs met) but she wanted her needs met for a long time before this all happened and for whatever reason you didn't get that. I point this out, not to make you feel bad, but just to say that you want needs met but so does she...and if you both go about this selfishly, you'll both just get pissed at the other! So I suggest that you be honest with your wife and transparent: let her see the real you! But use the W-T-F-S method. That stands for "When you...I think...I feel...So I'd like to ask if you'd be willing to..." This identifies the thing you are having the problem with, shares your thoughts (in case she's a Thinker), shares your feelings (in case she's a Feeler), and makes a request for what you'd like to help make it better. She then has the right to say "yes" or "no but I would be willing to do *this*" Then you two can reach a mutual, united understanding that you are both enthusiastic about. 

Here's an example for your situation: 
"*When you* mope around the house all day missing another man and won't even hold my hand
*I Think* it's understandable but
*I Feel* lonely and a little unloved
*So I'd like to ask if you'd be willing to* try holding hands when we are together, just so we can start connecting." 



> ...It's so hard, she wants to be here and try, which is amazing. It's so hard to know you're number 2 in her heart right now. I feel so mopey and down. How do I not do this? How do I not let her see me in this light.
> 
> I want and need her to "fall back in love with me", which I know she will, in time. It's just getting through the next month and not messing it up. It's REALLY REALY hard to not be down.
> 
> Is it too soon to suggest dates, and write love letters and stuff? Should I wait until a litter more of the heartache for the OM fades? It's really messed up to be here and know she's having heartache over another man that she loves. I want her to love me.


Okay, what_to_do_now, I want you to think back to the days when you first met your wife. She was young, free-spirited and beautiful! Remember that? Got it in your mind? 

How attracted to her would you have been if you had a little bit of interest (like she caught your eye but that's about all) and she was morose and languishing because you didn't LOVE her yet? If you saw her and thought, "Hmmm..." and she immediately clung all over you wanting her needs met and not offering you any? If smothered you and was all emo? You'd have said "NO WAY I'm getting tangled up with that" and dropped her then and there! And yet that's how you're treating your wife and then saying "I want her to love me!" 

Do you REALLY want her to love you? Then be like the guy you were when she met you. Did you have a life? Were you in classes, a sports team maybe? Did you have interests, friends, and a life? When you saw her, did your eyes light up and you'd say "I had so much happen today I can not wait to tell you!" Did you mope about in your room waiting for her call? Or did you call her? Flirt a little? Buy her a card that was funny and make her laugh? Just sit by each other and watch TV together? 

Right now, you are uninteresting, uninspiring, boring, self-centered, and sad. Who would be in-love with that? If you want her to be "in-love" then you will have to be a guy who piques her interest, catches her eye, makes her smile, treats her well, and looks and smells good! Right? 

My tip to you would be to read "What are Love Kindlers" and then maybe ask your wife to fill out the Love Kindlers Questionnaire for you. If she won't, you can try filling it out as if you were her. But being all clingy and demanding to have your needs met isn't going to ever end in her falling in love with you. Now you need to become again the man you ARE! Become the man you have the potential to be. That guy won her once already and he can do it again.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Update: We had a good couple of days and then yesterday was not so good. She saw OM at the bus stop (didnt speak or contact, just saw in passing) and that sent her into an emotional wreck. I sit here waiting while she goes through this break up before we can truly start working on our marriage.

We're at two different stages of the recovery process. I'm eager to start working at it.....she's trying desperately to get over OM but doesn't know how and doubts that she can.

Is there any suggestions for me at how I manage to slow down and wait or for me to help her get over the OM so we can start reconciling our marriage.

I asked her again if she is convicted in her decision to stay in our marriage. She said yes. Right now, her brain is in the marriage and her heart is not.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> Update: We had a good couple of days and then yesterday was not so good. She saw OM at the bus stop (didnt speak or contact, just saw in passing) and that sent her into an emotional wreck. I sit here waiting while she goes through this break up before we can truly start working on our marriage.
> 
> We're at two different stages of the recovery process. I'm eager to start working at it.....she's trying desperately to get over OM but doesn't know how and doubts that she can.
> 
> ...


I really feel for you WTDN. I think what you are doing is very magnanimous and I doubt I could be the same but I don’t know.

I don’t want to inflame the situation but I’m guessing she’d be with the OM if she could? It’s his choice she’s not with him, not her choice?

Personally I can’t see how you can cope with it all. Has she got somewhere she can stay for a while, friends, family? Can you not take time off from work for say two weeks and look after your children? I think you need to put her outside your castle walls for a while and go no contact with her. Let her be outside looking in. You can do it in a nice way. Just let her know you need time to settle down inside yourself and come to terms with what’s happened and what is happening. That it’ll be good for to have a break and to really decide what she wants to do with the rest of her life. 

At the moment she has zero fear of losing you because of the way you are behaving. I think you need to awaken that fear of loss in her by asking her to go and stay elsewhere for two weeks. I reckon you are being way too tolerant.

If OM decides to leave his wife for yours I don’t think you have any influence on your wife’s decision no matter what you do.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

it was her choice to not see him anymore. She chose to work on our marriage. Because it's "the right thing to do" and her brain is telling her that it will be best in the end and her heart will come back etc.

We both believe this, it's just a matter of getting to that point and her starting to truly get over OM.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

WTDN, how do you know it was your wife’s choice? If you say because she told you I would treat that with a massive amount of scepticism. In fact I wouldn’t believe it until I had confirmed it via another source.

Did you call the OM’s wife and meet up with her to find out what the situation is that end?

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

I spoke to the OM on the phone. I did. We wrote him an email together telling him to "go away". He still tried to contact her despite this email. I had to call him and tell him to go away.

He did


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> I spoke to the OM on the phone. I did. We wrote him an email together telling him to "go away". He still tried to contact her despite this email. I had to call him and tell him to go away.
> 
> He did


Ok. Have you told his wife what he is doing? Sorry if you've covered this in your thread. He sounds like a real bastard that won’t take no for an answer and is likely to continue contacting your wife.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

I threatened to tell his wife. He's living up to his promise of no contact since the call. 

My wife just needs to start to get over him. She truly feels like she's in love with him. It's just the fantasy though. Everyone can see it but her. She needs to detach and return to reality.

THe wake of destruction is getting larger though.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

She’s not in denial. She’s no longer lying and deceiving. She has blamed you for the affair. She is resentful that you “made her” break it up. She is in love with another man. She has lied to you, been disloyal and unfaithful. She has shown some remorse. She wants to stay with you and work on your marriage and your relationship. You want her to do that. You still love her and you want to know how to start winning her love for you back.

I think you’ve got to look way past today, tomorrow next month etc. and look ten years into the future. Put yourself at the end of 2020 and look back on the past decade. You know what you want up to that date. You want your wife to stay with you and your family to stay together and for you both to be in love with one another.

And then as each day passes and you’re feeling hurt keep those ten years in mind. Keep in mind all the joy and happiness that may be there for the two of you should you get yourselves through all this. I reckon all this is going to take time. There is absolutely no quick fix, no silver bullet and you’ve probably got some more suffering to go through. Just keep in mind that big picture, work on yourself and be the best husband and father you can be.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Bob,

Well said. I will do my best. Each day is tough.....but it's the path I've chosen. She's the one for me. I'll ride this rollercoaster as best I can.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Make sure you take good care of yourself. Your heart, soul and spirit have been hurt big time. Take yourself out by yourself. I’m by no means religious but I found a great deal of comfort in private prayer time in Churches and Cathedrals, walking through woods, up hills etc.

I liked spending time isolated with just my thoughts and no other interactions. I got into Buddhism and meditation for a bit. When I couldn’t sleep due to stress I found “Awareness” by Anthony de Mello of great help to relax myself and get to sleep. I did things that helped my soul and spirit. We have to take care of those things.

Bob


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Well i feel like this thread is mine with a few variations our timeline is so close. This roller coaster stinks. My wife dropped the bomb one night after, I think the guilt got to her when I was questionong what was up with her. She then went into ultra defensive mode which turned to anger and resentment for about 3-4 weeks during which i did it all wrong: to much R talk, crying in front of her getting upset etc writing notes. Then i found this site and divorce busting. We have been in counciling, couples and individual after the reveal she was more willing to go than ever. She unlike WTDN W has not directly expressed remorse, she did one day in councilling then later denied it, she will not say what she wants she says this is because she doesn't want to make a decision based on pure emotion. She did not like it when I said one night fine lets get a divorce. She does not express herself well, part of how we got here, She does suggest seperation. I initially fought this. Then I changed my stance. I did 180's big time. A few weeks ago after maintaining my composure all this time I blew a gasket, I let it all out all my anger everything that needed to be said i said it and made very clear how I felt about the situation and that although we had a communication problem at no point in time did she come out and say she was unhappy or needed more everything was always OK. I felt better after that, Then i changed, the seperation subject came up again I said fine find a place and go. She shut down, she has mentioned it but no real action. I began the posotive mental attitude a happy good morning how was work?? Small talk. Within two weeks I have seen some of her old regular behaviors return. Does it truly mean anything IDK!?? I have decided to back way way off act as a friend because her and i have always been friends over 20 yrs. Married 15yrs 4 kids. SO other little changes: two weeks ago if i touched her she really withdrew. Last week after a normal conversation about R we actually handheld for a brief period. All of this i take with a grain of salt. Preparing for the worst hoping for the best. Staying backed off. Quasi seperation this week, she went away to her sisters. Which is fine I have my kids. She is working more shifts being home less. So it's almost in home seperation and she does nights so we don't see much of each other. 
The OM: I know him and his spouse she knows about the A. We communicate it is a good way to double check who is where and if truth is being told. The only way to push the honesty. In my case he decided to end it the reality is he started it with a phone call when he needed to complain about his marriage where 1 thing led to another. Either one of them could have stopped it. 
I will not take full responsibility for the affair the choice of my wife to go outside our marriage when all she had to do was say to me we really need to talk, when I tried to get her to goto councilling almost a year prior to all of this happening, she is responsible for that final action. Was I perfect........NO....was she.......NO........I have listened to her complaints about our M and acknowledged them. I acknowledged that her emotions for OM were real and understand she has to work through that. I also told her she made the biggest decision about our family without consulting me or keeping me up to speed and that was unfair to everyone it will affect.
So now we wait and see what she figures out. Me I am going to have some me time some Dad time. If she calls I will answer later when i am not busy a little mystery seems to help draw them back. I love her and want this marriage but even more so she is still a good Mom and my kids don't deserve the pain of her leaving. But they will not live in an unhappy home either. 

The pain would still be there with divorce.
Some level of trust would still need to be rebuilt with divorce.
Either way there is work to be done.

Only time will tell.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Reading all these stories is making me see how long on a road we have ahead of us, and there's not guarantee it will be happily ever after.

This is the hardest thing i've been through in my life. I feel broken.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

This is not a fun ride we seem to be in very similar situations I can say the forums help counciling has helped in present time what it is doing for the future only time will tell I have stuck with one good friend to confide in and sometimes you just need to yell. The old heavy bag and getging back to the gym is helpful mental torture it is so don't feel like you are crazy if you are fine one minute and crying the next the worst is the unknown. 
Hang in there none of us planned on this but it is so common it is amazing. Hope some of those thoughts help.
ze=1]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Disbelief.

It's definitely helpful. Does anyone have any stats on how many marriages survive this kind of crisis? I'm curious to know.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> Thanks Disbelief.
> 
> It's definitely helpful. Does anyone have any stats on how many marriages survive this kind of crisis? I'm curious to know.


The problem with trying to collect data on rates of divorce for adultery and infidelity is that adultery can considered a symptom that the marriage is not working, rather than the main reason the marriage ended. In a situation where one spouse was unhappy for some time before starting a new relationship, it's hard to truly tell if the affair is the sole reason for the divorce. In addition, many times people are unfaithful and their spouse doesn't know. Finally, another difficulty with getting accurate information about the numbers of people who are committing adultery is that not everyone is going to respond to a survey question honestly. 

However, according to some statistics, of those who do find out their spouse has been unfaithful, adultery is the reason why most couples file for divorce. In 2006-2007, extramarital affairs were blamed for about 30% of all divorces. Right now there is an odd trend: lawyers have claimed that Facebook is being cited in almost one in five of online divorce petitions. 

Another statistic quotes 10-15 percent of marriages survive affairs after professional or non-professional (clergy) counseling where the act of forgiveness occurs.

A 1998 study "A Longitudinal Study of Marital Problems and Subsequent Divorce" by Amato and Rogers found when couples were twice as likely to divorce when infidelity was discovered. Likewise in 1997 UNC researcher Kristina Gordon believes "More than half of the marriages that experience infidelity end in divorce" yet with therapy, couples have a better shot at recovering from an episode of infidelity. 

Then again, John Gottman with his 35 years of research into marriage, is reported as saying, "Only 20 percent of divorces are caused by an affair. Most marriages die with a whimper, as people turn away from one another, slowly growing apart."

THUS, with the figures varying fairly significantly, I'd say that 10-20% really recover and become happy or very happy in their marriage, 20-50% do not divorce but don't really change so that the issues that lead to the affair continue, and about half divorce.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

So live life in the meantime while she figures it out hope for the best while preparing for the worst make my children know they are safe secure and loved. Focus the energy on me that I used to focus on her follow the div busting tactics and wait on father time and for this alien woman to go away and my wife to come back. Knowledge is sanity in this case
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Stats are stats, look at the S.D. Chargers. 
You have to be positive, the negativity is contagious (other people catch it). This affair stuff sucks. Your wife is aleast trying, so stop thinking your #2. Its hard but you need to show your wife that you are #1. She will get over this guy, so show her why.

A day doesn't go by, were I think about my wifes affair's, But I can not let her know, I have to think forward and always be positive. Your wife is down right now so cheer her up by staying strong, we all know how tuff it is, so when those bad thoughts start to come back, force them out, tell your self you are confident that you/we will get throught this.
Have you talked about how the the both of you can heal each other? I know its a negative thing to bring up, but it will have a positive out come.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Guy.. Any thoughts on helping heal each other when my spouse has yet to figure out what she wants? I am being posotive trying to be her "friend" since a long time ago that was first.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

So yesterday my wife's feet seemed to hit the ground. For the first time in weeks she seemed to have a little clarity.

She told me that she wanted to slow down the "working on our marriage" part because she needs time to see a counsellor on her own so that she is starting from a good, solid place. She admits she's totally "****ed up". She wants to get to the root of why she did this, what's wrong with her and become solid. 

Then she said she'll be ready to work on our marriage. So I need to step back, support and wait - with no guarantee. Going to be hard - but at least she's starting to take ownership on solving this.

Any advice or thoughts on this?


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Waiting is the hardest part not knowing, find distractions do things for u work on the underlying issues avoid R talk especially if mad. Its hard but it seemed to help me with mine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Why is the Disloyal Spouse so selfish in their thoughts? It's truly amazing. Such a strange phenomenon. I can't believe I'm the one that has to do more of the "supporting". You'd totally think it would/should be the other way around.

So we went to our "final" marriage counselling session until she goes through her "personal" counselling at which point we will resume couples counselling when(if) she's ready.

It's killing me not to be able to have any physical contact with her (not sexual). Nothing would make me feel more at ease than to put my arm around her when going to sleep or at least get a quick hug then we leave to go to work. No contact seems to be the most difficult thing for me.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

wtdn I can relate it too is like withdrawal not being able to hold your spouse like you could before. This is my take She had the affair right so her book opened whenever. 5 Chapters in you started reading the same book but she expects you to know everything she doest without being told. And as our councillor said like it or not she needs her time to grieve.


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

My situation has been extra complicated. I've yet to mention in all of this that while this has been going on my mother has been diagnosed with lung cancer and I've been battling those emotions too. 

It's so hard, because my support and safety to deal with those emotions has always been with my wife. I just go even worse news about my mother yesterday and it's killing me. It's killing me not to be able to crawl inside my wife's arms and just be held like I used to.

As it relates to the overall situation, how do I NOT act needy and work at myself when i'm being "blasted" from all sides here. I have the real risk of losing my wife and mother almost simultaneously. 

People keep saying that I've got to be at my "best" and show my wife the "swagger" I had when she first met me. It's almost impossible to do in this situation when I'm really just feeling the weight of everything crumbling around me. I feel like this is just happening to me and there's not much I can do. That's REALLY hard for a guy who always feels in control.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

what_to_do_now said:


> My situation has been extra complicated. I've yet to mention in all of this that while this has been going on my mother has been diagnosed with lung cancer and I've been battling those emotions too.
> 
> It's so hard, because my support and safety to deal with those emotions has always been with my wife. I just go even worse news about my mother yesterday and it's killing me. It's killing me not to be able to crawl inside my wife's arms and just be held like I used to.
> 
> ...


I think it’s at times like these boundaries really come into their own. I’m very extraverted and part of that is putting too much of myself “out there” and letting way too much in. Both result in “being hurt”.

I had no “model of myself” before. This may sound crazy but now I see myself as a castle. I’ve big strong outer walls surrounded by a moat and the only way in is over my drawbridge and through my portcullis. They represent my boundaries and I only let in what I want to let in. Inside I’ve got gardens which represent my spirit and which I tend to and let people see and participate in. I’ve also a keep which contains the inner most part of me, essentially my heart, soul and inner church. I look after my heart and soul and treat them with deference and respect. Like my outer gardens I know how to take care of them and keep them healthy.

I haven’t a clue if you know what I’m on about WTDN. If you have take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html and build your own boundaries, your own castle walls. And then look inside on yourself and take good care of it. I found great solace in churches and nature when I felt all alone with no one but myself to take care of me, of who I am.

Bob


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## what_to_do_now (Oct 30, 2010)

Update: Still moving forward after her affair. I feel like a "roomate" opposed to a husband. There is no real connection. 

My wife has found a personal therapist that she is going to start work with, which is fantastic. Her first appointment is 10 days away though.

It's hard to be patient and wait for her to work through her issues before she wants to work on our marriage. There are no guarantees but I'm doing my best to stay calm, cool and notice the small steps in progress. 

I just really really miss the closeness. I need the closeness with the illness and horrible, devastating news about my mother.

My wife doesn't want to "talk about our issues" very often. She's being totally selfish and needing to work on herself. 

I'm coping, but its not easy.

I do love her more than anything in the world. I just can't really show it in the ways I normally would.


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## hmm (Aug 23, 2010)

What to do now,
Im sorry for all of the suffering and pain you are going through it is definetly a lonely journey!! My h is also very selfish with the whole I need to work on my self. I truly think it is cowardly to hurt another person like this because you do not want to deal with the hurt you have inflicted on someone who loves you!!! keep your head high!!! and be the best "YOU" that you can be..


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Yeah she has it real tough. She hangs around you for security and love, but doesn't want to have to make an effort regarding the marriage. Typical WW. They do all the damage and then expect you to carry the load while they "work on themselves". To me its pure self centered arrogance. They have all the time in the world because the only consequence in this situation is paid by you. You need to do a 180 on her to protect yourself. Remember that they don't have to change if it costs them nothing to stay the same and keep abusing you. Take care of yourself.


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