# Sports' "Hostile Takeover" of American Families



## PaulB

I assume this is going on around the country. Playing a sport is no longer an activity for kids but rather a full time occupation. Organized sports has totally gotten out of hand. I'm curious if others are disturbed by this and how they are dealing with it.

Even with grade school kids, I see families giving up gobs of time all week long in order to be involved in sports. I feel like it has reached a point of ridiculous. I hear parents talk about how stressful the busy schedule is and how the coaches/leagues are overly demanding, but they all keep shuttling the kids to every single demand.

I played just about every sport possible as a kid. So did my brother. My parents supported us. My dad sometimes coached us when we were younger. Never did sports dominate our family though. I asked my parents a couple weeks ago how often we practiced for tee ball and little league and youth league basketball and football. "Once a week" my mom said. There are 9 yr olds who have to attend practices 5 times a week for soccer or basketball or whatever. Then there are the weekend out of town tournaments and then there is travel team and off season conditioning.


I'm not talking about high school. I get that. I'm talking about kids. The demands of sports has reached a level of crazy...and no one seems disturbed by it. 


I asked a friend at work if she was doing anything special for Mothers Day this year. She said no because they had to travel 2 hours out of town for her son's soccer tournament. The kid is 10. WHO THE F**K SCHEDULES A KIDS' SOCCER TOURNAMENT ON MOTHERS DAY??? I've watched my in-laws miss family vacations and weddings and various other events because of the demands of their grade school son's baseball "career". I've also watched numerous younger sibling sit bored out of their gourds as they get drug to hours of practices and games of the older sibling each week.


My wife and I have a son who will soon be old enough to start sports. She's all excited. I've already told her I'm not letting kids' sports leagues take over our life. I suspect it'll cause some problems down the road, but I'm putting my foot down. How are you all dealing with this?


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## john117

*Re: Sports' &quot;Hostile Takeover&quot; of American Families*

Only did one sport for one year for one child (fencing). Never again. It was a monumental waste of resources, and the child was very good at it. The problem is she competed against professional sports parents who think nothing of spending serious money to get their kids to advance... 

Like anything else, if you aren't wasting several evenings a week practicing or being coached or what not, the other guy is.


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## Yeswecan

I know a few families were sports are a constant. Personally, not a lifestyle my W and I were going to subscribe too with our kids.


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## sokillme

PaulB said:


> I assume this is going on around the country. Playing a sport is no longer an activity for kids but rather a full time occupation. Organized sports has totally gotten out of hand. I'm curious if others are disturbed by this and how they are dealing with it.
> 
> Even with grade school kids, I see families giving up gobs of time all week long in order to be involved in sports. I feel like it has reached a point of ridiculous. I hear parents talk about how stressful the busy schedule is and how the coaches/leagues are overly demanding, but they all keep shuttling the kids to every single demand.
> 
> I played just about every sport possible as a kid. So did my brother. My parents supported us. My dad sometimes coached us when we were younger. Never did sports dominate our family though. I asked my parents a couple weeks ago how often we practiced for tee ball and little league and youth league basketball and football. "Once a week" my mom said. There are 9 yr olds who have to attend practices 5 times a week for soccer or basketball or whatever. Then there are the weekend out of town tournaments and then there is travel team and off season conditioning.
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about high school. I get that. I'm talking about kids. The demands of sports has reached a level of crazy...and no one seems disturbed by it.
> 
> 
> I asked a friend at work if she was doing anything special for Mothers Day this year. She said no because they had to travel 2 hours out of town for her son's soccer tournament. The kid is 10. WHO THE F**K SCHEDULES A KIDS' SOCCER TOURNAMENT ON MOTHERS DAY??? I've watched my in-laws miss family vacations and weddings and various other events because of the demands of their grade school son's baseball "career". I've also watched numerous younger sibling sit bored out of their gourds as they get drug to hours of practices and games of the older sibling each week.
> 
> 
> My wife and I have a son who will soon be old enough to start sports. She's all excited. I've already told her I'm not letting kids' sports leagues take over our life. I suspect it'll cause some problems down the road, but I'm putting my foot down. How are you all dealing with this?


I've seen this but it's not sports fault. No one says you have to do this. Your kids don't have to participate in every sports outlet available to them. They can play local little league they don't have to play on the travel team. The extra practice they get with the travel team isn't going to make that much of a difference at that age anyway. It may even burn the kid out as the sport become more like a job. The chances of your kid making sports a career are like the chances of winning the lottery anyway. If they are, you are going to figure that out is in the last 3 years of high school. By that time they can do the activities through the school. No one says the parents have to be at all those games. My parents and most of my friends parents were not at all our games when we were young. It didn't make me feel less of them. Hell my parents would tell me they were not coming because the games were boring (oh the horror). **** I knew they were boring. I was board when I wasn't playing half the time. 

Frankly it's more important to teach your kids moderation and life balance then have them spend all their time playing games. Those are much better life skills. If my kid wanted to play sports 24/7 all year round I would tell them no. Moderation. There is more to life then sports. 

I think this is an problem entirely of the parents making. It's the crappy parents who are trying to relive their youth through there kids, or hoping for some kind of big payoff.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I have three kids, each of whom had different levels of sports participation.

There's definitely no one-size-fits-all answer here. 

Of course, parents have to be the arbiters of how much family resources, not just money, but parental time and energy, as well as opportunity costs of what is being missed, go into supporting sporting activity.

And while it's parents who much make the decision based on what's best for the family overall, certainly each kid's individuality should have some input. If a kid is really, really good at something and/or has a major passion for it, the price willing to be paid should go up a bit. But most kids are, by definition, of average ability, and the true prodigies rare, as are those with the all consuming passion. Having a family's lives revolve around a kids sports participation makes little sense in most cases. 

It's also worth pointing out, though, that many kids, even if not prodigy or fully committed, benefit from sports in other ways. For many, just the regular physical activity can do wonders. Other respond well to the structured activity. Still others make good friends. And yet others, learn the valuable life lessons of teamwork and the satisfaction that comes with being a part of something bigger than yourself, working along with others toward a common goal. Lots of benefits to be had.

It just looks like you are concerned with making sure you maintain some kind of balance, which is a good thing. I'm sure you'll be successful in this regard.

Sometimes it's worth looking for leagues that focus on personal development and camaraderie rather than obsessive pursuit of championships and scholarship/professional opportunities. I've been fortunate enough to have lived in places that offer both.


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## Ikaika

There is this growing movement for kids to either be that competitive professional athletes and/or Ivy League graduates headed off to Wall Street. All this seems to start _In utero_ nowadays. 

Yes it too much... too many things we think need to occupy our kids lives with the things we think they need, not necessarily what they want. All those league sports teams have gotten out of control in such a way that they advertise, if you want “junior” to have that athletic scholarship, we can get it for you. The same thing is advertised for smart camps for kids if they want to get into their Ivy League school of choice. It does not just drain time but can also drain pocketbooks. Competition, competition, competition, I get it, but we have taken this to the extreme and it just does not allow kids at times to be kids.

My youngest son plays varsity football and basketball, but that is by his choice. In the off-season he works out at the same gym I workout at, but again by his choice. If he wants to attend sports camp, again it is by his choice and usually because his friends are attending. Could I afford to pay for more? Yes. Could I afford the time? Yes, my schedule is somewhat flexible. But should I sign him up for every clinic and camp? No, he does not want it and I don’t think it is healthy for him or for our family. Will my son get sports scholarship? Probably not, even though he is relatively talented. He may end up attending a school that has a D3 sports programs. The great thing about those schools, they give their athletes academic scholarships. Needless to say that means he has to have the grades to qualify. Will this be an Ivy League school? No... he is not quite at that academic level. But, I hope he is balanced and healthy as an adult. 

We do need to help our kids plan, but we also don’t need to live our lives through them. They eventually have to find their own way in this world. I just wonder if all this business in sports is more about some parents and not the kids themselves. Part of parents jobs should be showing that balance. Just my thoughts. 


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## Volunteer86

This is absolutely correct. These 7 year olds playing travel ball and playing 120 games a year is ridiculous. I remember playing tee ball or even 6 I had tennis shoes and blue jeans we got a hat and shirt. I did play travel baseball but it was practice once a week with about 4 out of town tournaments a year. Other then that we played at the same field. I don't get it from practice 5 times a week or hitting lessons I don't see how anyone has time or money to do anything else. I once at my job had a parent say they take their son to practice on some "super"team 450 miles away twice a month for PRACTICE!!!! 
First off if your child is good enough they will make a team when they get older (high school) you don't go to tryouts and asked how many miles or how much money did you spend growing up for sports. Secondly, where I am from and sure this is everywhere. It's ALL political! For example I know when my son gets in middle school or even high school 1/3 or if not half of the positions are already taken. From teachers kids, coaches friends etc. That is just my take on it. 
Plus the most fun I had was going from a travel team to a rec team.


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## john117

Guilty as charged on the academic prep . 

We spent a ton of money and time on academics and that paid off quite handsomely. But athletics wise both girls are a lost cause...


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## FrenchFry

.


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## Ikaika

john117 said:


> Guilty as charged on the academic prep .
> 
> We spent a ton of money and time on academics and that paid off quite handsomely. But athletics wise both girls are a lost cause...




My son went to a football camp this last spring with players from one of the powerhouse schools in our state. A school that has produced a number NFL players, most famous Marcus Mariota. Helmets only clinic/camp, none of those boys from St Louis HS, could cover him. 

But, he is dyslexic, ADHD (no medication, that’s what sports are for), he thinks he is dumb. I just told him he learns differently. Needless to say we spend $25K/year at a school specializing in those who learn a different way. So we spend a lot on academics to only hope he can survive post secondary education. 


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## SadSamIAm

Depends on what your kids like/want. I don't agree with forcing your kids to take part, but if they want to, then I support that.

We had three kids. They all played a fairly high level of sports. Daughter with Ringette and Hockey. Other Daughter with Volleyball and Soccer. Son with Football, Hockey, Volleyball and Lacrosse. There were all in honors programs in High School. 

My son just graduated from University and was offered a pretty awesome job with a Bank. He thinks that he was picked over others because of his marks but also because of the sports he participated in. The recruitment was quite intensive including flying to interviews, attending social events and not just academic. 

I didn't mind them being at many practices. I liked taking them there and watching them participate. Was fun to hang out with the other parents. Had lots of parent parties and was our social life for many years. 

I do agree that they rep teams go too far. We had a hockey tournament in Phoenix, AZ. Had Lacrosse in San Jose, CA. Traveled to other provinces for Volleyball tournaments. It was expensive. Lots of fundraising. Many kids couldn't afford to do these things.

My kids are all grown now. I think the sports experience gives them good social skills and helps them compete in the real world. I wouldn't change those years for anything. My kids say the same thing.


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## 2&out

I think it depends on the kids desire and talent. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not the top athletes have god given talent that can't be matched no matter how many clinics, time, or dedication. Spending ridicules resources on "good" talent IMHO is not a wise investment of time or $. Great talent is a different story. Neither of my parents were athletically inclined. I was one of the kids who's parents sacrificed huge to give me opportunity and it was basically my and lots/most of their lives for many years. Free college. And if one can make it to the next level the $'s kind of good. Both my kids didn't have what is needed so I/we pursued other areas of interest and talent for them.


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## SadSamIAm

2&out said:


> I think it depends on the kids desire and talent. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not the top athletes have god given talent that can't be matched no matter how many clinics, time, or dedication. Spending ridicules resources on "good" talent IMHO is not a wise investment of time or $. Great talent is a different story. Neither of my parents were athletically inclined. I was one of the kids who's parents sacrificed huge to give me opportunity and it was basically my and lots/most of their lives for many years. Free college. And if one can make it to the next level the $'s kind of good. Both my kids didn't have what is needed so I/we pursued other areas of interest and talent for them.


I don't agree that sports should only be for those that have god given talent. 

Being a part of a team is great for life skills. I think everyone should have the opportunity. 

I agree with the OP in that the Upper Levels take things too far. Girls playing soccer at age 10 have to play both the indoor and outdoor season or they lose their place on the team. This means they can't play any other sports. Guys playing hockey at the upper levels are pretty much forced to play year round and attend many expensive camps or they don't get picked. It gets crazy at a very young age.

I read something about professional athletes. Something like 50% of professional athletes are born in the first 3 months of the year. The older kids do better because they are bigger/faster. They therefore get better coaches, more opportunities. Kind of shows that it is too much too soon.


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## personofinterest

There are definitely good things to be learned being part of a team. I agree it's the "crazy sports parents" that ruin it. When my oldest played soccer, I saw a couple of her teammates reduced to tears for missing shots, allowing turnover, etc.

Did I mention the kids were SEVEN???

Some parents try to live that last big dream through their kids. And it's not just sports.

I admit I do an eye roll at some of the ridiculous spending done at K-12 schools down here for football, while books are out of date and the band room has asbestos lol. Because we ALL know being state champs trumps being a national merit scholar, and Bubba will play for the Cowboys one day.


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## Ikaika

personofinterest said:


> There are definitely good things to be learned being part of a team. I agree it's the "crazy sports parents" that ruin it. When my oldest played soccer, I saw a couple of her teammates reduced to tears for missing shots, allowing turnover, etc.
> 
> Did I mention the kids were SEVEN???
> 
> Some parents try to live that last big dream through their kids. And it's not just sports.
> 
> I admit I do an eye roll at some of the ridiculous spending done at K-12 schools down here for football, while books are out of date and the band room has asbestos lol. Because we ALL know being state champs trumps being a national merit scholar, and Bubba will play for the Cowboys one day.




Yep so true. Last year my son dropped a pass with nothing but green in front of him, the classic run before you catch it. I did not even see the coaches yell at him and his teammates tapped in on the helmet as if to say “we’ve all done that”. I said nothing. My son felt terrible as if he let his teammates down. I told him the best way to play sports, learn from your mistakes, have a short memory, but most of all have fun and learn what it means to work as a team (remember your teammates did not turn on you, you can learn from them). Those last two will be the most useful well into your future. 

You have to let them make mistakes and have fun doing it. My only thing I tell my son, is that if you sign up for a sport you show up to practice unless you are injured (which he is right now, groin tear). It is disrespectful to the coaches who are giving of their time if you don’t show up and do your best, not my best, not “the” best, just “his” best effort. 

He has talent but is in a less competitive division so I doubt he will get a look at by any college other than D3 schools. And, frankly I would prefer it since they emphasize student over athlete. 


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## Blondilocks

My neighbors have been carting their two kids to soccer practice 4 times a week for 8 years - starting when they were 7 & 5. Both parents are professionals. Why do they do it? They wouldn't have a life otherwise. No family locally and no friends who are not associated with their kids' sport.


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## john117

FrenchFry said:


> How Soccer Bills Devoured This Family's Budget | Money <--- You'd like this article a lot. Highlight:
> 
> - $17,400 a year on soccer. OH MY GOD. And soccer is one of the cheap ones.
> 
> My son tried hockey, scored a few goals and we almost died crunching hockey costs.


If you count piano, Kumon, language, tutoring, and summer art or writing classes we probably came close to 17k in a year...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Blondilocks said:


> My neighbors have been carting their two kids to soccer practice 4 times a week for 8 years - starting when they were 7 & 5. Both parents are professionals. Why do they do it? They wouldn't have a life otherwise. No family locally and no friends who are not associated with their kids' sport.


I have made some very good friends through my kids sports. 

The team tent where the parents hung around on race day (my son's high school mountain bike team) was an incredibly social place... as was the nearest restaurant/pizza joint/brew pub after the race was over. 

Interestingly, while there are lessons that the kids learn best from team sports, it seems like the parents of team sport participants were far more ate up and vicariously competitive than the parents of individual sport kids. The soccer, baseball, football, and especially (in our area) volleyball were far more obsessive and confrontational while the parents of the kids on the cross-country, swimming/diving, and mountain biking teams were gregarious, friendly, warm and open... even with parents from the teams which the kids our were competing against.


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## TheDudeLebowski

We tried tee-ball with my son. The coaches were way too serious about winning to the point where they would set a batting order and keep it the same every inning, meaning 1-9 then if only 5 kids got to bat, the next inning they would start back at 1 again because they wanted the best kids to bat. I complained, got our money back from the league, and we couldn't pull him out fast enough. These we're 5&6 year old kids. What a ****ing bum of a person that coach was. 

So we went tae kwon do and he liked it for the first year. Made it to purple belt and he just stopped liking it really after the second year. It was 4 days a week for an hour, and I think he just got burnt out. It was a great school with excellent masters. Very good at teaching and working with kids. In the end, it just wasn't for him. So then we went science, engineering, and math club. He loves it! Never wants to miss a day. Its only once a week. He recently started archery and he is really good at that too. He had his first tennis lessons this week. He is a quick sprinter and has good stamina for running, and he likes Mario tennis so he wanted to try it lol. So far so good. Just two classes in, but he is enjoying it. I'm pretty sure he's going to stick with it for a while. He is real excited to go which is nice. We want him to do more activities like that and not just running around the house. So my son has been through a lot. 

My daughter, she is ALL about dance. Dance is her life. She is 8 and this year she got her 5 year trophy. Of course perfect attendance awards galore as well throughout the years. She started ballet, then added tap, then jazz, contemporary and now she was invited to the travel team for ballet, and invited to solo as well. You can't just do those things, they pick the best girls to do them and she is the youngest dancer in the history of that studio to get invited to do solo. Yes I'm bragging right now  So she will work with a teacher to create her own dance for the next dance recital as well as being in 4 other dance numbers. When she's given her daily "ipad time" she's locked away in her room watching dance routines and other dance competition videos. Constantly twirling around the house, working on her footing, working on poses and leaps, practicing her timing with music. She is NUTS about dancing. When I say its her life, I mean she is ALWAYS thinking about dance. She recently asked about doing gymnastics, why? Because they have "acro" which is basically gymnastics mixed with dance. Sort of like contemporary with some tumbling thrown in. But we told her she's going to have to drop a couple dance classes to make time for gymnastics, so she sort of backed off. Instead now she said she will focus on getting in to Pointe. I'm often in awe of her dedication. I know every parent thinks their kid is a protege, and I'm not ready to go there yet, but I do have a hard time finding other 8 year olds with her level of dedication. In terms of time, its 4 days a week totalling 6.5 hours. The thing about it though is she would do more if it was up to her. We fit it in as much as we can both in terms of time and costs. It's worth it though because she loves it so much.


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## 2&out

To clarify my opinion. Sports are IMO a huge and valuable growing experience for kids. Being part of a team, having to deal with failures, disappointments, victories, and the being involved with, compromising, and sharing those experiences with others in my opinion makes a well rounded kid, person. I think all kids should be involved in and participate in sports. My kids did play sports. They just were not great at it and wasn't their passion. So I did not push them in. Because Dad was blessed in this area, there was outside pressure. I worked hard to make them know I did not expect them to follow the same path I did and certainly did not feel they were any less than me, and that in fact they were much better than me.

I thought the point of OP was there is too much emphasis on and parents pushing their kids in sports. I agree with him, on that. Lives need to be balanced - including parents trying to make their kids be all they can be. But... as parents, isn't that what we do ? And I fault no parent for doing. But IMO that pushing needs to be done where the kids wants and passions are - not the parents.

.Just like in Art, Musical talent, mechanical aptitude, etc. Some things just come natural to certain people. Sorry, but I was the bast player on the field when I walked onto it at 9 yrs old my first game. I had no previous coaching or experience. My dad didn't "play catch" with me - he felt sports were dumb. After 3 games they moved me up to older kids level because kids and parents complained. Dad the so smart Engineer still thought sports were dumb and came to few of my games. But my Mom saw - and encouraged me - and took me to wherever. Dad B*tc*ed, coaches and others said he needs to be, go to XX. Sometimes far away. Mom did. Thank you Mom. 

Dad had an affair and ditched Mom my last year of high school. I started college and he jabbed me about "didn't get a scholarship on smarts" but I got a 29 on the ACT, which basically was the real ticket for my full ride at a pretty major school. D**k. When I got out of college - with a degree - and went to a temporary career - I made 20 times his pay. Haven't talked to him since. 30+ years. He's never met my kids who are now adults. But Mom lives in a pretty nice paid for house and is Gma.

Sorry - end of rant.


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## personofinterest

My dad played a variety of sports and was a coach. Neither my sibling nor I were blessed with aptitude nor interest in sports. We did band, choir, and nerd stuff.

My dad was extremely proud. He never missed a concert or performance unless it was states (or countries) away.

I love him for that.


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## arbitrator

*Re: Sports' &quot;Hostile Takeover&quot; of American Families*



john117 said:


> Only did one sport for one year for one child (fencing). Never again. It was a monumental waste of resources, and the child was very good at it. The problem is she competed against professional sports parents who think nothing of spending serious money to get their kids to advance...
> 
> Like anything else, if you aren't wasting several evenings a week practicing or being coached or what not, the other guy is.


*Youth league football, basketball, football, and track are pretty much the same way! The parents, who pay megabucks to improve "Junior's" athletic acumen, more often than not, are pompous a$$e$, usually always full of themselves!

Except that we referees get to hear their nasty jibes aimed at us, then have to threaten them with embarrassment or being ejected from the contest, or being outright arrested, if conditions warrant!

Let's just say that I'm rather excellent at embarrassing them!*


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## john117

I wish parents put effort in pushing kids academically... the Asian kids in our school district often participate in what the white kids call the Secret Academic Asian Society, where qualified parents or hired tutors teach small groups for things like calculus, chemistry, and the like. It's no wonder that nearly every valedictorian etc in the last three decades has been Asian.


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## Ikaika

john117 said:


> I wish parents put effort in pushing kids academically... the Asian kids in our school district often participate in what the white kids call the Secret Academic Asian Society, where qualified parents or hired tutors teach small groups for things like calculus, chemistry, and the like. It's no wonder that nearly every valedictorian etc in the last three decades has been Asian.




My flexible schedule I have tried to push my academic agenda on my youngest. He rolls his eyes. He pulls (three weeks ago) his groin and coach limits his practice. He complains, yes my son actually loves practice as much as game day. 

Dad, me, says we need to rehab your groin. I turn it into kinesiology, anatomy and physiology lesson. The only way I can get in academics, I have to use his sports interest to do so. When he was struggling last season with his free throws in basketball. Again, turned it into some math and physics lessons. 

He keeps up with all the free agency trading in the NBA and NFL, math lesson... the lessons go on and on from there. 

Growing up, I was not necessarily the smart kid and I never participated in organized sports, my parents did not have time to deal that sort of thing. My friends and I surfed and I mean to the point I came short of growing gills . My parents never really pushed academics but dad told us without college we would have dead end jobs, pretty much called us (mainly me), losers. Nowadays, you would have termed me a free range kid on “steroids”, it was just the norm back then. This also meant my parents involvement in my life is when handing down corporal punishment. Total opposite of how parenting and pushing all these extra curricular activities are pushed these days. 

I try to strike a balance for my youngest. The oldest has some disability challenges. Youngest, loves sports but again we don’t push it on him, he is only involved in the ones he likes. Oldest does special olympics (powerlifting). I like to stay busy and workout as an old man in the gym with 20 and 30 year olds. It really is all about balance, I try to show it and I preach it. I tell them it is important to use your brain and body. You don’t have to be the smartest or strongest, just push through all the hard stuff and it will pay off. 


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## TheDudeLebowski

john117 said:


> I wish parents put effort in pushing kids academically... the Asian kids in our school district often participate in what the white kids call the Secret Academic Asian Society, where qualified parents or hired tutors teach small groups for things like calculus, chemistry, and the like. It's no wonder that nearly every valedictorian etc in the last three decades has been Asian.


It's out there, but people have to look for it. They could probably do a better job of selling themselves. My son's STEM club is a fantastic and fun place of learning for him. They really cater to all age groups and do projects that are fun and keep the kids engaged. I agree however that its up to the parents. Sports teach good things to kids, but if you notice your kids aren't really in to it, invest in other areas. My son is big in to STEM, tests high in those subjects, and when he is playing at home he seems most interested in creating and specifically building. He is really an out of the box problem solver. So noticing this, we searched out a technology and engineering club. Of course he loves it! 

I think a lot of parents get stuck in this mindset that they have to put their kids in sports. They try Soccer, baseball, basketball, football, golf... There's lots of other stuff out there. Pay attention to your kids play habits. They tend to do stuff that they enjoy doing and are naturally good at. Limit their time on electronics also. Of course if your kid is always outside hooping at home and with friends, keep them in basketball. Probably don't put them in every other sport just to do it during off season. If they express an interest and love for science class, find a club for them and try it out! 

My kids are half Asian btw lol.


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## Ikaika

TheDudeLebowski said:


> It's out there, but people have to look for it. They could probably do a better job of selling themselves. My son's STEM club is a fantastic and fun place of learning for him. They really cater to all age groups and do projects that are fun and keep the kids engaged. I agree however that its up to the parents. Sports teach good things to kids, but of you notice your kids aren't really in to it, invest in other areas. My son is big in to STEM, tests high in those subjects, and when ge is playing at home he seems most interested in creating and specifically building. He is really an out of the box problem solver. So noticing this, we searched out a technology and engineering club. Of course he loves it!
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of parents get stuck in this mindset that they have to put their kids in sports. They try Soccer, baseball, basketball, football, golf... There's lots of other stuff out there. Pay attention to your kids play habits. They tend to do stuff that they enjoy doing and are naturally good at. Limit their time on electronics also. Of course if your kid is always outside hooping at home and with friends, keep them in basketball. Probably don't put them in every other sport just to do it during off season. If they express an interest and love for science class, find a club for them and try it out!
> 
> 
> 
> My kids are half Asian btw lol.




In the end we have to let our kids be driven by their own interest not by our own. I do think there should be a balance that most parents in both camps, pushing the sports leagues or the academic camps, could benefit from for well adjusted future adults. 


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## Middle of Everything

All really good posts that have covered most points in this. A few thoughts



sokillme said:


> I think this is an problem entirely of the parents making. It's the crappy parents who are trying to relive their youth through there kids, or hoping for some kind of big payoff.


Yes and no. While I think the parents do MOST of the damage here, outside influences scare people into thinking if you dont go crazy, junior has no chance of making the high school team etc.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I have three kids, each of whom had different levels of sports participation.
> 
> There's definitely no one-size-fits-all answer here.
> 
> Of course, parents have to be the arbiters of how much family resources, not just money, but parental time and energy, as well as opportunity costs of what is being missed, go into supporting sporting activity.
> 
> And while it's parents who much make the decision based on what's best for the family overall, certainly each kid's individuality should have some input. If a kid is really, really good at something and/or has a major passion for it, the price willing to be paid should go up a bit. But most kids are, by definition, of average ability, and the true prodigies rare, as are those with the all consuming passion. Having a family's lives revolve around a kids sports participation makes little sense in most cases.
> 
> It's also worth pointing out, though, that many kids, even if not prodigy or fully committed, benefit from sports in other ways. For many, just the regular physical activity can do wonders. Other respond well to the structured activity. Still others make good friends. And yet others, learn the valuable life lessons of teamwork and the satisfaction that comes with being a part of something bigger than yourself, working along with others toward a common goal. Lots of benefits to be had.
> 
> It just looks like you are concerned with making sure you maintain some kind of balance, which is a good thing. I'm sure you'll be successful in this regard.
> 
> Sometimes it's worth looking for leagues that focus on personal development and camaraderie rather than obsessive pursuit of championships and scholarship/professional opportunities. I've been fortunate enough to have lived in places that offer both.


All well said. 

That last part is tough though. Development and camaraderie? Bah! WIN! WIN! Seriously Ive had discussions with people about this in regards to 10-12 year olds playing zone defense in basketball. EVERYTHING I've read says its bad for development of defensive skills. But it helps you win baby!! So most run it. 



SadSamIAm said:


> Depends on what your kids like/want. I don't agree with forcing your kids to take part, but if they want to, then I support that.


Agree with all you said. The part I left is the tricky part for some I think however. Junior or juniorette sees how Mommy and Daddy light up and take interest when they play that sport/activity THE PARENT likes/loves. 

Other activities? Eh. They dont express interest. Natural for kids to want Mom and Dads love and attention. Easy to get "pushed" into something they really arent in to. But I agree with you that in the end it balances out and kids tend to stay in it only if they are really enjoying it.



2&out said:


> I think it depends on the kids desire and talent. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not the top athletes have god given talent that can't be matched no matter how many clinics, time, or dedication. Spending ridicules resources on "good" talent IMHO is not a wise investment of time or $. Great talent is a different story. Neither of my parents were athletically inclined. I was one of the kids who's parents sacrificed huge to give me opportunity and it was basically my and lots/most of their lives for many years. Free college. And if one can make it to the next level the $'s kind of good. Both my kids didn't have what is needed so I/we pursued other areas of interest and talent for them.





SadSamIAm said:


> I don't agree that sports should only be for those that have god given talent.


I think what 2&out is saying is that eventually athleticism wins out. Not that ALL shouldnt be allowed to play and compete. 

Just that for some they think if I put junior in enough camps and have him practice every waking moment that he will be incredible at some point. 

He may be decent to good, but eventually athleticism wins out. 


And I think I saw "fundraising" addressed somewhere in all of these posts. UGH!! More like begging and emotional blackmail. Guilting family and friends into paying for your kid to play a sport. It can be expensive. Pay for it yourself. I dont want crappy overpriced popcorn or candy bars, or to go to a crappy overpriced pancake feed


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## Middle of Everything

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I have made some very good friends through my kids sports.
> 
> The team tent where the parents hung around on race day (my son's high school mountain bike team) was an incredibly social place... as was the nearest restaurant/pizza joint/brew pub after the race was over.
> 
> Interestingly, while there are lessons that the kids learn best from team sports, it seems like the parents of team sport participants were far more ate up and vicariously competitive than the parents of individual sport kids. The soccer, baseball, football, and especially (in our area) volleyball were far more obsessive and confrontational while the parents of the kids on the cross-country, swimming/diving, and mountain biking teams were gregarious, friendly, warm and open... even with parents from the teams which the kids our were competing against.


Agree on the last. The big three (football, basketball, and baseball) for boys at least seem to bring out the worst in people. Though post Michael Phelps I would almost be tempted to throw swimming in with the others. Seems the bigger the spotlight to more insane people get. 

Not demeaning other sports AT ALL, but its almost like most dont "care" about cross-country, mountain biking, etc so it draws people that are truly into the activity not just the glory and attention.


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## Ikaika

Middle of Everything said:


> Agree on the last. The big three (football, basketball, and baseball) for boys at least seem to bring out the worst in people. Though post Michael Phelps I would almost be tempted to throw swimming in with the others. Seems the bigger the spotlight to more insane people get.
> 
> 
> 
> Not demeaning other sports AT ALL, but its almost like most dont "care" about cross-country, mountain biking, etc so it draws people that are truly into the activity not just the glory and attention.




Regardless of the sport, it is up to parents to instill humility. While I don’t think parents should bring their son or daughter to tears if they did not perform up to some ridiculous standard. It is equally important to let their son or daughter know that just because they scored that touchdown or the stats in their last game were at some all star level, humility is the best lesson that goes beyond all those points, blocks, assists, etc. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## 2&out

STEM rocks - and IMHO these programs need more promoted and supported. They are the future of USA ingenuity and technical dominance - ala silicone valley, advanced robotics, electric and self driving cars - which are much closer to real life, (like cell phones back in my day - are you serious ? carry phone with me in my pocket ?), than I think many think.

Dad of couple yrs now NASA Electrical/Computer Engineer. I am much more proud of this than anything I ever did.

As parents I'd like to think we all want our kids to be great. Encouraging them is our responsibility. But proper direction and selflessness is required. For some that seems hard. The wanna be sports hero, beauty queen, musical prodigy seems too prevalent to me - parents wanting their kids to achieve what they didn't and spending huge resources on/for. But this isn't new - is it. IMHO an example of "life". While some things change, some remain the same.


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## Ms. GP

As far as kid sports go, I've seen the good, the bad, and the very very ugly. I've got two kids in travel ball. One baseball and one in softball. I guess I would call myself a reluctant sports parent. It's definitely more my husband's show than mine. 

It can be exhausting, miserably hot, and completely time consuming. The bottom line is the kids love it. My daughter at this very moment is sitting in the dugout in the sweltering Alabama heat with a broken arm, because she wants to cheer on her team. Completely her idea btw. She's extremely intelligent, mature for her age, and a little socially awkward. She has trouble making friends her age. Through softball she's made tons of friends. She's a heck of a first baseman with a great bat and has been asked to pick up with other teams. She loves it. All the girls on the team lined up to sign her cast. It was really cute.

My son on the other hand is dyslexic, extremely shy, and a little immature for his age. He's a phenomenal pitcher with a great bat. He hates school but with some tutoring he's doing pretty well. Sports have been a great way for him to make friends and is a great source of self esteem. He knows he's good at baseball, basketball, and football. 

The other parents can definitely make for a crappy experience. But with that, I've learned to take with a grain of salt. I've experienced everything from cyberbulling to getting my butt kissed depending on how my kids are playing. Your either in the out house or the penthouse with those people. Right now we're in the penthouse because we live in a small town and word has gotten out that both kids are really good. I just smile because it's all a little silly in my opinion. 

Pro tip: if the crazy sport's parents put a team together and ask you to be on it. Just say no!! I've seen parents verbally abuse their children. Tell them they suck. Parents cheat on their spouses with other parents on the team. I've been cyberbullied because we left a team. Parents fighting in the parking lots. Parents cursing the referees and getting kicked out of games. Etc.

My advice to you is to start out in league ball. They usually practice twice a week with one game on Saturday. If you want to try travel ball, take a long hard look at the parents first. See how they react to losing. If they lose their crap every time their kid makes an error or a call doesn't go their way, RUN!! Run and don't look back! Lol


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## TheDudeLebowski

Ikaika said:


> In the end we have to let our kids be driven by their own interest not by our own. I do think there should be a balance that most parents in both camps, pushing the sports leagues or the academic camps, could benefit from for well adjusted future adults.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I agree and that's why we put our son in Tennis. Team sports, we've tried, he didn't seem to really like it. We do want him to do more physical activities and stay fit. It actually would help him to put on some weight it we can ever figure out how to accomplish that. He's skin and bones. He would probably be good at track also. He looks like a long distance runner. Long legs for his height, and incredibly lean. 

Both of our kids get top grades and take every class in two languages. But we keep trying to find some sort of academic after school program that our daughter would be interested in. We are still searching for anything that will peak her interest enough to commit.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Middle of Everything said:


> Agree on the last. The big three (football, basketball, and baseball) for boys at least seem to bring out the worst in people. Though post Michael Phelps I would almost be tempted to throw swimming in with the others. Seems the bigger the spotlight to more insane people get.
> 
> Not demeaning other sports AT ALL, but its almost like most dont "care" about cross-country, mountain biking, etc so it draws people that are truly into the activity not just the glory and attention.


Not demeaning at all. I think you're right. Those aren't glory sports, so they don't draw the glory seekers. They draw people who do it purely for the love of the sport... and that extends to the parents as well. 

Interestingly, in our district, the really powerhouse pressure is in girls volleyball. More often than not, our school wins State, and even in a bad year may be the runner up or semifinalist. We’ve got a whole eastern bloc farm system going where they identify girls with talent well before puberty and put them in a focused training regimen when they’d rather be playing with doll houses. But it pays dividends later on. We frequently place girls full scholarships, which is ironic, since it is a mostly very affluent school district and most families can put their kids through any college in the land with no financial aid whatsoever. 

Work took us away for a few years and when we returned, my oldest was approaching 6th grade. I knew the area was into girls volleyball, but I had no idea just how much. I figured since it was a good program, I’d let my oldest give it a go. But most of the other girls had been drilling on this for years and my daughter was not innately talented in this way to begin with. 

At the club tryouts, she got placed into the bottom league which was fine. There was another family new to the area (moved here specifically to get her daughter into the volleyball program) and their daughter had received a less favorable placement than mom thought she deserved. She totally lit into the coach of our team, the upper level team, the league director, and anybody else within shouting distance. It had been a long night and my daughter and I were just looking to get her uniform, sign the last bit of paperwork, and go home. But this woman was holding up everything for everyone. She had the most intense tunnel vision and had no concern whatsoever for how she was affecting everybody else. I finally had to jump between her and the league director and tell her that she could resolve her personal issue later… after the rest of us who had no special demands, were allowed to move on. She didn’t’ take to kindly to that either. How dare I interfere with her daughter getting her rightful position. Fortunately, the admin staff began hooking up the rest of us. She was still screaming when I finally left nearly an hour later. 

Unbelievable. 

Oh, and in the short run the squeaky wheel got the grease and her daughter got moved up….but in the long run, her daughter went nowhere.


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## PaulB

personofinterest said:


> I admit I do an eye roll at some of the ridiculous spending done at K-12 schools down here for football, while books are out of date and the band room has asbestos lol. Because we ALL know being state champs trumps being a national merit scholar, and Bubba will play for the Cowboys one day.



Yeah, school spending on athletics--and all the hidden expenses involved that people normally don't think about--is another issue. While big sports like football and basketball in most areas have boosters money and ticket sales that contribute to expenses, the amount of school dollars spent on these athletes overshadows what is spent on non-athletes, unfortunately.

I've always loved football, but I've also always found it ironic that these kids devote so much of their lives to the sport, and after they graduate high school 98% of them will never suit up and play another football game ever again the rest of their lives.


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## notmyrealname4

I hope all of you guys' kids realize how lucky they are to have parents that accommodate so many of their hopes, dreams and whims.


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## SadSamIAm

Ms. GP said:


> As far as kid sports go, I've seen the good, the bad, and the very very ugly. I've got two kids in travel ball. One baseball and one in softball. I guess I would call myself a reluctant sports parent. It's definitely more my husband's show than mine.
> 
> It can be exhausting, miserably hot, and completely time consuming. The bottom line is the kids love it. My daughter at this very moment is sitting in the dugout in the sweltering Alabama heat with a broken arm, because she wants to cheer on her team. Completely her idea btw. She's extremely intelligent, mature for her age, and a little socially awkward. She has trouble making friends her age. Through softball she's made tons of friends. She's a heck of a first baseman with a great bat and has been asked to pick up with other teams. She loves it. All the girls on the team lined up to sign her cast. It was really cute.
> 
> My son on the other hand is dyslexic, extremely shy, and a little immature for his age. He's a phenomenal pitcher with a great bat. He hates school but with some tutoring he's doing pretty well. Sports have been a great way for him to make friends and is a great source of self esteem. He knows he's good at baseball, basketball, and football.
> 
> The other parents can definitely make for a crappy experience. But with that, I've learned to take with a grain of salt. I've experienced everything from cyberbulling to getting my butt kissed depending on how my kids are playing. Your either in the out house or the penthouse with those people. Right now we're in the penthouse because we live in a small town and word has gotten out that both kids are really good. I just smile because it's all a little silly in my opinion.
> 
> Pro tip: if the crazy sport's parents put a team together and ask you to be on it. Just say no!! I've seen parents verbally abuse their children. Tell them they suck. Parents cheat on their spouses with other parents on the team. I've been cyberbullied because we left a team. Parents fighting in the parking lots. Parents cursing the referees and getting kicked out of games. Etc.
> 
> My advice to you is to start out in league ball. They usually practice twice a week with one game on Saturday. If you want to try travel ball, take a long hard look at the parents first. See how they react to losing. If they lose their crap every time their kid makes an error or a call doesn't go their way, RUN!! Run and don't look back! Lol


Another thing about deciding on the travel team is where your kid fits. If it is baseball and your kid is going to be outside the starting lineup, then I would suggest passing on the travel team. Same thing with volleyball, hockey, etc. Travel teams play to win. At a very young age. 

At Under 12, my daughter was the backup setter on the travel volleyball team. The first tournament of the year, the starting setter was away at Basketball tryouts. My daughter set the entire tournament and the team never lost a game. For the rest of the season, when the starting setter came back, my daughter did play as setter again. She practiced at setter (so they could scrimmage). She fetched balls while the starts practiced. She got subbed in occasionally to play right side. It was the same for all the 'non-starters'. Pay all the money, fetch balls at practice, but rarely play. And the coach had a rule that if you were not starting, you had to stand and cheer on your team (while she sat on her ass). 

I commend Volleyball Alberta though as the following year, they put in a rule that every player on the score sheet had to start at least one game each match. It made all the coaches play all the players (somewhat). I hope that rule is still in place.


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## Ms. GP

Agreed. Of course a little sitting isn't the worst thing in the world. Especially if they play like 4
games in a day. I've seen an assistant coach start cursing and throwing equipment because his precious son had to sit for one inning out of a four game day!! What a *********!! 

When my son was sitting. I just told him to keep practicing and try harder. Didn't bother the coach with it.

Sitting a whole tournament would be rough though. I agree.


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## Mr. Nail

Way back before pay to play. I took 3 sports a year in high school, Football, wrestling, ans track. The valuable lessons I learned from team sports were how to steal from your team mates, the value of kissing up to the coach, some interesting and useless sexual trivia, and some of the best ways to be a total *******. 

Decades later when I had a son, I got him involved in scouting. Boy is that expensive. It doesn't have a season. Year round weekly meetings , camping in three states. Travel, Training, family involvement. It never ends. And did I mention that competitive troop who all wear matching uniforms. I had to laugh a bit at his thread because Scouting has been a family takeover for us. We were happy to pay for it. Like many of the sporting families here we found that the activities were paying off for our son. 

In high school he branched into electronics, and culinary arts. The culinary arts teacher still tries to get him to sharpen her knives. It was a good combination of skills. He is more of a cooperator than a competitor. Honestly I think that is where sports go wrong. In sports teamwork means we work together to make sure the other guys have a bad day. In scouting teamwork means everyone comes home safe and happy. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Ikaika

Mr. Nail said:


> Way back before pay to play. I took 3 sports a year in high school, Football, wrestling, ans track. The valuable lessons I learned from team sports were how to steal from your team mates, the value of kissing up to the coach, some interesting and useless sexual trivia, and some of the best ways to be a total *******.
> 
> 
> 
> Decades later when I had a son, I got him involved in scouting. Boy is that expensive. It doesn't have a season. Year round weekly meetings , camping in three states. Travel, Training, family involvement. It never ends. And did I mention that competitive troop who all wear matching uniforms. I had to laugh a bit at his thread because Scouting has been a family takeover for us. We were happy to pay for it. Like many of the sporting families here we found that the activities were paying off for our son.
> 
> 
> 
> In high school he branched into electronics, and culinary arts. The culinary arts teacher still tries to get him to sharpen her knives. It was a good combination of skills. He is more of a cooperator than a competitor. Honestly I think that is where sports go wrong. In sports teamwork means we work together to make sure the other guys have a bad day. In scouting teamwork means everyone comes home safe and happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my 2 cents.




The pendulum swinging to the other extreme. It was not too long ago we all complained about team sports that handed out participation trophies (my son and I detested, kids know when they win and when they lose). Now, we all compete and play to win at all cost. 

Fortunately, there are still HS varsity sports where we live. It does cost, but that is in things like football and basketball shoes, or in my son’s case, he does not like the issued equipment, so have bought our own. Oh well. 

And, those that want colleges scouts to notice, there is a price, ugh... I just want my son to play and that is all he wants. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Evinrude58

PaulB said:


> I assume this is going on around the country. Playing a sport is no longer an activity for kids but rather a full time occupation. Organized sports has totally gotten out of hand. I'm curious if others are disturbed by this and how they are dealing with it.
> 
> Even with grade school kids, I see families giving up gobs of time all week long in order to be involved in sports. I feel like it has reached a point of ridiculous. I hear parents talk about how stressful the busy schedule is and how the coaches/leagues are overly demanding, but they all keep shuttling the kids to every single demand.
> 
> 
> I played just about every sport possible as a kid. So did my brother. My parents supported us. My dad sometimes coached us when we were younger. Never did sports dominate our family though. I asked my parents a couple weeks ago how often we practiced for tee ball and little league and youth league basketball and football. "Once a week" my mom said. There are 9 yr olds who have to attend practices 5 times a week for soccer or basketball or whatever. Then there are the weekend out of town tournaments and then there is travel team and off season conditioning.
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about high school. I get that. I'm talking about kids. The demands of sports has reached a level of crazy...and no one seems disturbed by it.
> 
> 
> I asked a friend at work if she was doing anything special for Mothers Day this year. She said no because they had to travel 2 hours out of town for her son's soccer tournament. The kid is 10. WHO THE F**K SCHEDULES A KIDS' SOCCER TOURNAMENT ON MOTHERS DAY??? I've watched my in-laws miss family vacations and weddings and various other events because of the demands of their grade school son's baseball "career". I've also watched numerous younger sibling sit bored out of their gourds as they get drug to hours of practices and games of the older sibling each week.
> 
> 
> My wife and I have a son who will soon be old enough to start sports. She's all excited. I've already told her I'm not letting kids' sports leagues take over our life. I suspect it'll cause some problems down the road, but I'm putting my foot down. How are you all dealing with this?



All I can say is I totally agree.


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## FrenchFry

.


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## thefam

FrenchFry said:


> My son is in one of those sports camps and he borrowed Grandma's phone (who is on pick-up duty) to call to tell me how much fun he was having. That made it worth it to me - I was afraid he wouldn't get anything out of it and feel burned out on it. I lucked out with a mom who did that for me and I'm proud to do it for my son.
> 
> In fact, that is my dilemma - my son is athletically. He has great coordination, agility and physicality since he was a tiny toddler-which is why we started him in sports to begin with- and he's shown no signs of slowing down. We do not want to get sucked into a $17,400 vortex, but what is a "reasonable" limit? (is the question I ask myself...:grin2
> 
> I'm still on the periphery, but those options are coming at us fast. So far, my husband and I are about "balance," he needs time to do other activities, homework and to be a kid and run around with his chosen kid pack.


FF, from this and some of your other posts it seems like your son is that rare breed who is gifted, enjoys it, and knows he's good at it. So you're probably a candidate for the time and money sacrifice. I don't envy that decision you will have to make.

The instructors at the kids gym my daughter goes to keep hounding us that we should switch her to a full fledged gym because she is gifted. She is 4! My husband says absolutely not because we are not going to live that "gymnast " family life with early practices and weekly competitions. 

But he is shelling out long dollars for private swim lessons for all 3 of our kids (4, 2 and 1). He says because we have a pool, he wants them to enjoy it and the swim lessons they were taking didn't seem to make good progress. Indeed our 4 year old can now swim, and at least the 1 year old loves the pool when he use to be afraid of it. And NOW yes, of course, the swim instructor has said our daughter has elite swimming potential. Seriously??? I can see them predicting that for her as a gymnast because I see her skills. But honestly she swims like any other little kid who has had lessons since before she could walk.

I don't know what we are going to do if my daughter begs us at some point to enter competition gymnastics. She LOVES going to the gym and actually asks to go if we haven't been in a while. Could we really tell her no, we won't be living that life? I'm beginning to waiver but my husband adamant that it's a hard no.


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## notmyrealname4

FrenchFry said:


> My son is in one of those sports camps and he borrowed Grandma's phone (who is on pick-up duty) to call to tell me how much fun he was having. That made it worth it to me - I was afraid he wouldn't get anything out of it and feel burned out on it. I lucked out with a mom who did that for me and I'm proud to do it for my son.
> 
> In fact, that is my dilemma - my son is athletically. He has great coordination, agility and physicality since he was a tiny toddler-which is why we started him in sports to begin with- and he's shown no signs of slowing down. We do not want to get sucked into a $17,400 vortex, but what is a "reasonable" limit? (is the question I ask myself...:grin2
> 
> I'm still on the periphery, but those options are coming at us fast. So far, my husband and I are about "balance," he needs time to do other activities, homework and to be a kid and run around with his chosen kid pack.





thefam said:


> FF, from this and some of your other posts it seems like your son is that rare breed who is gifted, enjoys it, and knows he's good at it. So you're probably a candidate for the time and money sacrifice. I don't envy that decision you will have to make.
> 
> The instructors at the kids gym my daughter goes to keep hounding us that we should switch her to a full fledged gym because she is gifted. She is 4! My husband says absolutely not because we are not going to live that "gymnast " family life with early practices and weekly competitions.
> 
> But he is shelling out long dollars for private swim lessons for all 3 of our kids (4, 2 and 1). He says because we have a pool, he wants them to enjoy it and the swim lessons they were taking didn't seem to make good progress. Indeed our 4 year old can now swim, and at least the 1 year old loves the pool when he use to be afraid of it. And NOW yes, of course, the swim instructor has said our daughter has elite swimming potential. Seriously??? I can see them predicting that for her as a gymnast because I see her skills. But honestly she swims like any other little kid who has had lessons since before she could walk.
> 
> I don't know what we are going to do if my daughter begs us at some point to enter competition gymnastics. She LOVES going to the gym and actually asks to go if we haven't been in a while. Could we really tell her no, we won't be living that life? I'm beginning to waiver but my husband adamant that it's a hard no.




Like I said, your kids don't know how lucky they are. You guys are great parents. Well done.


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## red oak

Mr. Nail said:


> Way back before pay to play. I took 3 sports a year in high school, Football, wrestling, ans track. The valuable lessons I learned from team sports were how to steal from your team mates, the value of kissing up to the coach, some interesting and useless sexual trivia, and some of the best ways to be a total *******.
> 
> Decades later when I had a son, I got him involved in scouting. Boy is that expensive. It doesn't have a season. Year round weekly meetings , camping in three states. Travel, Training, family involvement. It never ends. And did I mention that competitive troop who all wear matching uniforms. I had to laugh a bit at his thread because Scouting has been a family takeover for us. We were happy to pay for it. Like many of the sporting families here we found that the activities were paying off for our son.
> 
> In high school he branched into electronics, and culinary arts. The culinary arts teacher still tries to get him to sharpen her knives. It was a good combination of skills. He is more of a cooperator than a competitor. Honestly I think that is where sports go wrong. In sports teamwork means we work together to make sure the other guys have a bad day. In scouting teamwork means everyone comes home safe and happy.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Well said.

Focus on life skills. Something useful for life. 

No modern sport teaches useful life skills.

Back in the day of my kids being of age to play there was track and basketball. 
A guy know was recently talking of the expense of having to take kids to little league world series. 13hr drive away. State championships 4hr drive..

Poor guys attitude it's important to the kids.


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## MattMatt

Zombie thread.


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