# Expect her to be perfect?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I think the missus is getting sick of me reminding her of how she was before we got married, and with me telling her that I would fall in love over and over again with her each day if only she was like that again. It's funny actually, it's like I'm having an "emotional affair" with her SPLIT personality lol (her good side)

She reckons I expect too much from her, and that I can't take in the good with the bad. The problem is, before marriage, she WAS perfect for me, even her "bad" sides became positive as she was always trusted by my side and we could face the world together.

Life became so forfilling with her in it, she completed me in each and every way, became best friends, then lovers, with intense passion and romance and we had such great fun. I was in a honeymoon with her in the past, each day I saw her I just loved her more and more.

Yet... irony, now here I am in a marital advice forum whining about her... And hey, she probably feels the same way, and misses the old times. But what can we do? We're still close, but rather distant compared to what we had. I know I know, the honeymoon phase passes, but I dunno, I just wish for one week we can fall for each other all over again 

Without her screwing it up by either chucking fits or starting fights with other women or manipulating me selfishly. Meh...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I think the missus is getting sick of me reminding her of how she was before we got married, and with me telling her that I would fall in love over and over again with her each day if only she was like that again.


I've read most of your threads. I think this statement is very sad. Everyone changes and the dynamic of your relationship has changed too. It's natural for this to happen, it's necessary. From what I have read of your story, it seems you have put her through situations that have made her feel insecure and now you're telling her you wished she was how she used to be? I wonder how that feels. I'd be extremely hurt by such a comment. It's different to telling her you have always been in love with her because of [insert personality traits], compared to saying you wished she was different to how she currently is. Does that make sense? 

Dude perhaps you could ignite that 'one week of where you fall for each other over again' by being that man who she also fell in love with before, BUT preferably with the added benefit of seeing what your marriage has evolved to and the effort you both need to bring. Smash those rose-colored glasses from the past and start looking clearly at what is and the behaviors that are now needed for you as a couple (and for your wife) as things are today.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't know Random - you and your wife are a good match. She gives you hell in one way or another and you give it back, matching her tit for tat. You said yourself you want a lot from a woman to keep your interest - she should challenge you, excite you, keep you from boredom, be independent, sexually adventurous, mentally spare and fight with you etc. Your list for a mate is longer and more complex than most men. 

Your wife has changed and will continue to do so. Having a child has a profound psychological effect on a woman. I was very independent before i had kids but became dependent on my husband in a way that I could not have predicted. I need him to be a father and I feel to keep their father in their lives. Your wife may be experiencing something similar - probably lost some of her independence as a direct consequence of having your child. 

You describe a relationship that seems to thrive on conflict and keeping her off balance and in a state of high anxiety. You give her verbal jabs, tell her things that seem unkind. Do you think that is sustainable over the long run? She is probably running out of the mental energy to defend herself. At this point in her life, she may need a man who accepts her as she is and who try's to make her life easier and not put artificial stresses in her way. Of course, I am guessing. You seem to articulate a different set of needs. You both seem to be going in different directions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You seem to blame her for reacting to your verbal and behavioral jabs. The flirting thing recently - she no longer feels comfortable with the game. You don't seem to be able to accommodate her. You do it knowing how she feels and then berate her when she reacts as predicted. Do you ever see yourself in a relationship where you get to know each other on a deep level, accept you respective demons and support each other like you are on the same team? 

Do you see a relationship that you can relax and know that there is one person in the would who knows you, knows your history, joys, dreams, defeats and insecurities and with whom you enjoy a loving understanding supportive relationship. That is what usually happens in the post honeymoon period for people who uccessfully graduate from the effortless early love to the deeper more satisfying love. 

Maybe the jabbing and conflict is a way of not getting to know each other deeply - you keep each other at arms length never revealing anything of your wounds from the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It just too natural for me to fun-flirt and crack jokes and have fun, she knows this and had fun with me before. I even fun-flirted with gay blokes just for fun and to see how they respond, even if I'm straight. That's how fun-flirty I am. She apologised for the other night for over-reacting, she knows I'm only playing around but yet for some reason it's now become natural for her to show her claws in public embarrassing us instead of just playing it cool like the old times.

As for our conflicts that's another reason why I wish things were back to the old times -> we used to fight for each other, not against each other. She's an incredibly manipulative woman who definitely knew how to bend many people to her will, rather useful ability, but hell when she starts to manipulate me. Of course I fight back because I don't wanna end up like my avatar in the long run.

And she used to enjoy the game with me, she really knew how to play hard to get and we had great fun and great romance and great sex because of it. In the past she always presented to me a challenge, that I have to seduce her, to conquer her, and even after I have her, there's always still something left for me to conquer. Now she just hops on me and empties me out.

I know it probably hurts her to compare her present personality to her past personality but it's just how I feel, and if there's nothing else healthy about our relationship we have a lot of honesty in regards to our feelings and thoughts. Not perfect, not complete transparency but we always communicate.

I don't know... I can't even be that man in the past anymore who swept her off her feet repeatedly every day I saw her because it seems that I've also "evolved" into something else since marriage. But when I try to go back and be that man again it just doesn't work with her no more when she just likes to play games against me and empty me out sexually. Meh... maybe these thoughts are just nostalgia...


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I get where you're coming from and see what you mean, I really do. However, even without whatever past emotional baggage your wife may be carrying around, I'm going to throw out what I myself would be hearing from all of this. Mind you, I'm a pretty darn secure person, but based on what I understand is going on with you guys right now, these are the kinds of underlying messages I'd be getting from what you're saying/doing:



> me reminding her of how she was before we got married, and with me telling her that I would fall in love over and over again with her each day if only she was like that again


She _hears_: I don't love "this" you, you have to be something/someone else to get my love.



> It just too natural for me to fun-flirt


She _sees_: Other people are more attractive to you than she is.



> Now she just hops on me and empties me out.


She _feels_: Rejected and unloved since you've made the boundary about sex.

My point is, you guys have a LOT going on right now and the reality is that you both have a hand in it. It's also a fact that things that might have been fun and okay are a bit of a sore point now simply because everything else is so unstable. I mean, you don't ask someone on a diet if they've _gained_ weight, right? Even if you might think it? (Seriously, I hope not!)

I'd also emphasize that honest communication is good and important, but that doesn't mean one has license to be blunt and hurtful. If you're saying things that you know are hurtful to her, and in ways that are hurtful to her, then you frankly can't expect sunshine and rainbows to shine out of her hiney afterward. She can't either. 

I think you're on the right track with the realization that you both have changed. Because you have. It would be weird if you hadn't, frankly. It's what we're supposed to do through life. 

To be totally blunt about it, until you realize that this _isn't_ all about you sitting back and telling her what she needs to "fix" to become a person you can love again, and that it _is_ about the two of you building a relationship based on the experiences of your past and growing together into the future....your "honest communication" and doing what you've always done is going to drive the two of you completely apart. In probably a nuclear-technicolor way. And the really tragic part is that it's your daughter who's going to be left standing under the mushroom cloud.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/

Well... in that case how can I put in a nicer way so she won't mis-interpret what I'm trying to express to her?

I understand the situation we are in right now is quite unstable hence I shouldn't have such expectations of her but if only she can change back to wonder woman the instability will be solved, and we both get what we both want.

It's going to be very difficult for me to not fun-flirt... it's like asking a chef not to eat a prawn, or a bartender not to drink, or a comedian not to crack a joke! However, I guess I'm too used to our old-times banter as well, we always gave each other crap to push each other to better ourselves - as we were best mates before lovers.

So... how to be a nice guy? =/


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Just because you are telling someone what you see as the truth doesn't mean you can hurt them with it. 

You see what you are telling her as being honest - but she may not see it as the truth. And if she doesn't think it's true, not only will she want to defend herself, but she will find it even more hurtful that you see her that way. 

It's also likely that she feels like you - that you've changed in ways she doesn't like. You both need to find ways to communicate this that aren't hurtful. Simply saying "I liked the old you better" isn't going to work. The old her is no longer who she is, no longer who she can be, and quite likely, no longer who she wants to be. 

I think there's a balance that needs to be struck here - you need to be able to tell her when she says, does or is something that you don't want in your life. But you also need to be able to accept and love her for who she is - not who she was, or who she will be, but who she is right now. At the same time, she needs to be able to do the same. 

As far as the flirting thing: it's understandable that this is a habit and will be hard to simply break in an instant. However, speaking as a woman who's had a child (well, 2 actually) and has always struggled with insecurity, if it really bothers her, you need to find a way to stop. You need to remember, actions speak louder than words: if it makes her insecure, and you continue to do it while telling her you love her or that it means nothing or whatever, your words may say that but your actions tell her that you don't love her, or that her needs are unimportant to you. 

There's also a huge difference between pushing someone to better themselves, and pushing someone period. With some of the things you describe here, it doesn't sound so much to me like you're pushing her to better herself, but like you're just pushing her in general - possibly pushing her away. 

Here's a thought that might help you more effectively handle this with your wife: when you're going to say something to her, or do something (say, for example, flirt with someone else), ask yourself if this was something some guy said or did to your daughter, would you be ok with that? If you wouldn't want some future boyfriend or husband to say or do to your daughter what you're about to say or do to your wife, then it would be a good idea to sit and rethink how to handle it.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> Well... in that case how can I put in a nicer way so she won't mis-interpret what I'm trying to express to her?
> 
> ...


Well if I were going to nicely express myself, I'd probably tell her I missed the connection and relationship we had before. Right now it sounds like she needs to change everything, you need to change nothing and then she might get your love back. That's a pretty sucky message to get over and over.

But frankly, I don't think that there is anyway that you'll be happy with her. I'm not sure that she can bend herself through enough hoops to satisfy you because the logic behind the demands you're making of her is crazymaking in and of itself.

Think about it, back in the good old days, she was "wonder woman". Well apparently she wasn't because you screwed around on "wonder woman".

After infidelity, marriage and a kid she's changed. And the person that she is now isn't good enough either because "wonder woman" was perfect.

And this not-good enough person gets to watch you flirting with other people, in between "giving her crap" to "better herself". But that's okay, because it's just "fun-flirting" since you'd never cheat on her, right? 

Is it any wonder you see her acting out at you when you frankly seem to feel like you're entitled to be a d!ck to her every chance you get, I suppose since you were "best mates" and all. I'm just being honest, here....

It's a vicious circle that neither of you can win at. You can't turn back the clock and nobody is a perfect wonder woman.

But one thing you have to change is this whole idea that "giving crap" is effective or motivating. Only if you're 17. Grown-ups might dish it out occasionally, but after a certain point, we move on to more effective communication. Because clearly honest and crap aren't getting you too far anymore.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I cheated on her in the past when the interreligious issues began, funny really, come to think of it the issues began even before I cheated it seems. I guess I'm at fault too because I withdrew a lot of support during that time as I didn't like the changes. We grew apart instead of together despite our days of glory.

And I'm not a d-ck to her every chance I get, but I am brutally honest and I chose her because she was once the type of woman who didn't take it to heart. For example, with most women I don't mention anything if they put on some weight, or cook a horrid meal, or change their beliefs into something I don't really like... I simply don't care, but with her -> I do. Besides she becomes a b-tch whenever I do need to straighten up too and I take it in but only when it comes from her. But perhaps I do have to learn how to be honest but still fair and non-judgemental.

Only time it gets annoying is when she becomes a b-tch when it comes to things I can not change; like my beliefs, or my work, or my triggers/buttons to get turned on before any interest in sex.

Anyways my fun-flirts are more jokes then anything, the thing is she should know this about me by now. I wouldn't really be offended if someone like me fun-flirts with my daughter in the future -> unless of course he leads her on and hurts her.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

So what are the things you do to support her and show her that you really do love her?

Because what it looks like is that you have a lot more fun getting your licks in. And I kind of get it, over the years I've had to learn to temper my sarcasm because I usually took it too far. Most of us do in my family. Doesn't make it right, just makes it a habit. What I can tell you though is that underneath it, we know our love for each other is unconditional. Does your wife know that? It seems to me she's probably taken a couple of hits to her 'foundation' with you. You rejected her religious beliefs and yet your beliefs 'can't be changed'. I know you said you're sorry and it's over blah blah blah, but I don't think you get how infidelity can make someone question their value to their partner. Once those big things get knocked off balance, it's hard to take the other stuff lightly.

I think you have it right when you call yourself "brutally honest". You make your honesty hurt. Do you talk to your kid that way too? Seriously, if a dish turns out badly, why do you have to call it horrid alien food instead of just saying "that didn't turn out like the picture eh? Maybe next time it'd work better if you..." Since you're the expert, help instead of mock. 

I'm just saying that if you focus on reinforcing the foundation and building that sense of security, you'll probably see a lot fewer fusses about the littler stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Only time it gets annoying is when she becomes a b-tch when it comes to things I can not change; like my beliefs, or my work, or my triggers/buttons to get turned on before any interest in sex.*

It sounds like maybe she feels the same way, when your statement to her (and yes, you are allowed to state what you think, doesn't mean the other person has to like it, agree with it, or commence to doing it)...is pretty much telling her to change her self to something she USED to be. Maybe she isn't that person anymore.... ya know? You are in essence asking her to change her SELF... not her hair, or the way she salts your food.... SELF is a biggie. JMO


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Anyways my fun-flirts are more jokes then anything, the thing is she should know this about me by now. I wouldn't really be offended if someone like me fun-flirts with my daughter in the future -> unless of course he leads her on and hurts her.


You misunderstood me. How would you feel if your daughter had a boyfriend or husband who "fun-flirted" with another woman, despite your daughter having told him it bothers her. 

You keep calling it fun-flirting, as if that makes a difference. The intention behind your flirting really doesn't matter. What does is that it bothers your wife - the woman you married, the woman who bore your child. And by continuing to do this when you know it upsets her, you tell her that you don't respect the fact that she is your wife and the mother of your child. You tell her that she is not enough for you. Also, you've cheated. The flirting is no longer fun in her eyes. The flirting is a prelude to cheating. And telling her you won't cheat isn't good enough anymore. You told her that before you cheated - and then you cheated. 

Quite honestly, I wouldn't want to change anything about myself for a man whose actions tell me that I'm not enough for him. I wouldn't even want to be with him, period.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

During the good times like early this year; I'm not really the hard-a$$ I am now. I did spend a lot of time with her and not neglect her needs (well, to the best of my ability to also keep myself happy - no 21x a week nonsense!), I do tell her why I do (still) love her, compliment her when she does do good, take her and our daughter out quite often, and we even went for a holiday earlier this year, and with work out of my mind I had no issues with spoiling her during that time (with 21x a week nonsense - but willingly)

She does have a lot of redeeming qualities, the house is always spotless, our daughter couldn't have a better mother, and she's very reliable with her word. Not only that but she's still very loving and affectionate, I may complain about the frequency of her sexual demands but during good times sometimes when I get home she puts my feet up and treats me like a king, in return I just can't help it but to repay her love. But that's during the good times... other times it's demands and fights.

But it's just that when I look at her now and compare her to who she was in her prime, I just feel sad, especially with the interreligious crisis last year where I really had to put the foot down when she turned the whole world against me trying to destroy my reputation just to get her way. I had to kick her out to give her a message I'm not putting up with that demon in her.

But yeah I guess I may have failed to express that I do still love her no matter what. I may miss who she was but I'm not leaving her for any reason, I've been with her way too long and she's been too much of a part of my life to let go. The only thing that can get me to leave her is if she tells me to go.

As for changing her... the irritating thing though is that looking back before marriage, and even before she got deep into her religion, one conversation we had when I was worried about her losing herself to her religion she expressed to me that she won't lose herself and become the very thing she hates ("pharisees"), but when I kept expressing my worry she told me she expects me to keep her from falling. I promised I'll always be there.

Guess I broke my promise when she stopped listening to me because she made my fears become a reality as soon as she entered her bible college. That's when I cheated, and I guess that's when everything went from honeymoon to shaky "I want to go back in time!" stuff...

As for her cooking, yes I do help her, and she's improved somewhat. I guess the problem is she loves it too even if she lacks the palate for it, which means she likes to look up the Martian cookbook from time to time. It does hurt though when I'm honest with her about her cooking, especially when she always makes sure there's food ready for me. I feel bad but meh...

As for if my daughter had a boyfriend or husband who fun-flirted I wouldn't mind as long as she didn't mind. But... yeah, fine, if she wasn't happy about it then I would get my son-in-law to straighten up or I'll kick his arse... FINE... you win >.<

Ok... I'll have a talk with her tomorrow, bring up the last fun-flirt cat-claw drama, bring up the cooking, bring up what I told her, and hopefully we can work out some kind of plan together in terms of how to fix this relationship.

Maybe if I am to express that I do miss who she was, that I start with telling her that I'm still going to be committed to her no matter what, and that I'm not falling out of love just because of her changes, and try to express more of her good sides that she still has then her bad, but also maybe remind her of that one conversation we had so long ago (and the thing is, I know she's still that woman deep inside, sometimes during good times when we're snuggling and playing with her hair I can just look in her eyes and still see that fire - hard to explain)...

... will that work? =/


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, then again... why wait tomorrow, might as well just grab her now


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I think that's a wonderful post--and you should tell her all those things! I know it's hard when things are wonky, but sometimes it's good to take a minute and think of the things that you really do like about your partner--keeps your eye on the prize, you know?

I saw some posts floating around yesterday that Halien started about the two wolves in all of us. The black wolf and the grey wolf. The black wolf represents our fears and our insecurities and the grey wolf represents our inner strength and confidence. If you just keep remembering to feed that grey wolf in your relationship instead of poking at the black one, I think you'll make great strides in leading her by example to go back to being the strong woman you admired. Not to mention you'll foster that same kind of spirit in your daughter. 

On a lighter note, you reminded me of a story my dad tells...A LOT! I'm a really good cook now, but of course there was a learning curve. I don't remember it specifically, but I apparently had a phase back when I was branching out from following recipes to "just cooking stuff" where I came to the conclusion that things of the same general color and appearance could be substituted for each other. Spices, vegetables....pretty much interchangeable for several months. It is a true testament to my father's love and dedication to building my skill that he ate just about every dang thing I put on the table! 

(It's actually one of many true testaments, but then again, I have basically the most amazing dad ever. On the days you think your house is moody, crazy and emotional--my dad was a single parent to two teenage girls. 'Nuff said  )


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok update, had a long talk with her...

Told her "We need to talk" heh and she was going "ooooo, so 'we NEED TO TALK' do we?" being difficult about it at first. I didn't like her tone so I told her I'm not in a mood for a fight so she agreed to be civil about it. I brought up the other night but she insists she's over it, but I told her that I don't believe her because she said that the last time and the last time before the last time, but she kept at it...

For about 15 minutes it kinda went like this:
Me: "You're not over it"
Her: "Yes I am, stop accusing me!"
Me: "I'm not accusing you"
Her: "Yes you are, I told you I'm over it"
Me: "No you're not"
Her: "Look, just stop it!"
Etc etc etc etc

Eventually she figured I'm not going to let it go and she "kinda" admitted she doesn't like the way I flirt. So I brought up if it's because of what I did in the past (the cheat) but she denies it, then we went on and on again until I asked her "then what is it that bothers you?"

She told me "you're not listening!" and that it's what she said; the way I flirt. When I expressed that she was never bothered about it in the past and that she flirted with other guys and then she told me that I didn't flirt the way I do now in the past and nor did she. I asked her what she meant, and she became difficult again, expecting me to know. She just told me "just look back, and tell me what's the difference between the way I flirted and the way you flirted the other night?" I had no answer, and she wouldn't tell me. So for about another 15 minutes following her around like a baby chick following mother hen... she finally told me (frustratingly)...

She told me that I've changed, that I always flirt by instinct but in the past I was a tease more then a real flirt, and that I never disrespected or neglected her and she did the same thing, and it was more like "turning them down with style" and she feels hurt that the way I do it has changed. I didn't understand what she meant at first but I do now... I know this is weird but this is something only both of us understand. And I guess she's right, rather perceptive really. Or maybe the counsellor helped her see the problem.

I didn't really know what to say because she kinda caught me off guard, kinda pawned me really. She then let it out as soon as she saw the chance to get it into my head that the reason she gets annoyed is because I no longer turn them down and with the way I'm flirting and dancing I'm actually neglecting her making her feel unwanted and disrespected. It's the way I do it.

In truth though, the fun-flirts in the past were actually quite brutal for our third-parties, we led on people and hurt them and laughed about it to ourselves. She doesn't want to do that anymore but she knows I have to flirt so she just puts up with as much as she can. I was a tad speechless, but she won this round and owned up to what I did.

She was a bit mad at me not knowing what she meant but oh well, as that issue was sorted out I brought up how I kept reminding her of the past, and that I told her "Don't get me wrong, it's not that I'll ever stop loving you, my love has never changed, it's just that I miss the good times we had"
(I was a bit impressed with myself actually - and how I pulled it out so smoothly outta my arse)

She told me that she misses it too. I told her that we've been through so much, that she's not just my wife she's my best friend and that I'm tired of us fighting like this. The nail was almost punched back in but then she mentioned if I mean all this stuff that I'm saying to her, why do I still ban her from my man-cave during my "me-times" and still have time for our daughter. She told me I can't expect her not to get upset with the "household rules" especially when my daughter is always welcome to pull my ears whenever she wants but she's not. And that she's not happy with me sneaking off after putting her to sleep.

So I told her... that I've been doing "online counselling" even before we began MC (I didn't tell her about this forum, no way!), that I care about the two of us, and sometimes I just need to express my issues and find ways to correct our problems. She asked if she can talk to my "online counsellor" too but I told her that I need my privacy in this otherwise I have no outlet. She told me that she should be my outlet. I told her "what you talking about? You're already my 'outlet'" which we had a chuckle over - and the humor kinda saved me from further prodding.

Now that we're cool she wanted us to watch a movie to sleep but I told her I need some time to digest everything that was said tonight. I told her that I do feel she's a good wife, and that I appreciate it. She seems a lot more relaxed now it seems after our discussion too. I still have yet to bring up how we can go back to the old times (and actually looking back I'm not so sure either if I want to flirt the way I did before), but meh, that's for another time.

Maybe the counselling does help, or maybe my approach was different this time because it seems to get more results... I don't know...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Good for you for getting answers and LISTENING to her without letting it escalate to an argument. That is good.



RandomDude said:


> She told me that I've changed, that I always flirt by instinct but in the past I was a tease more then a real flirt


Isn't this kinda what you complain about with her too? That you wished she teased you and made her chase you? Maybe you need to redirect that energy of "fun-flirting" back to her. Include her by making it about her. Tease HER again. 

Excluding toxic situations, I think sometimes relationships can be like holding up a mirror - either to see in ourselves what we like/dislike or by showing the other person how we want to be treated ourselves. Hold the mirror up and their actions are probably reflected back to us through the way we have shown them. So who's reflecting who? I guess it becomes a balance. Just food for thought.



RandomDude said:


> and that I told her "Don't get me wrong, it's not that I'll ever stop loving you, my love has never changed, it's just that I miss the good times we had" (I was a bit impressed with myself actually - and how I pulled it out so smoothly outta my arse)


haha, good for you for telling her some positives.



RandomDude said:


> why do I still ban her from my man-cave during my "me-times" and still have time for our daughter. She told me I can't expect her not to get upset with the "household rules" especially when my daughter is always welcome to pull my ears whenever she wants but she's not. And that she's not happy with me sneaking off after putting her to sleep.


I wonder if this comment connects back to what she said about the flirting: _"I'm actually neglecting her making her feel unwanted and disrespected. It's the way I do it."_ Maybe I'm way off track with joining the dots here but there seems to be a theme of her feeling unwanted by you. It seems you're doing this unintentionally of course, but she's given two examples now (the man-cave and the flirting) whereby she feels unwanted and disrespected by you. Despite my theory, and really, at the end of the day what do I know? ...your wife and you are the ones that are going to have the answers. The more you can both open up this way, and if you keep going to MC, you'll be able to scratch beneath the surface and connect on a deeper level. I'm not suggesting giving up the man-cave but perhaps the more she understands this isn't about you shunning her (as you did try to explain), the more she might understand and accept this.

You might even find through all of this that you mature beyond the need to fun-flirt with others. You might discover that your attention becomes completely about your wife.



RandomDude said:


> I told her that I do feel she's a good wife, and that I appreciate it. She seems a lot more relaxed now it seems after our discussion too. I still have yet to bring up how we can go back to the old times (and actually looking back I'm not so sure either if I want to flirt the way I did before), but meh, that's for another time.
> 
> Maybe the counselling does help, or maybe my approach was different this time because it seems to get more results... I don't know...


It's probably a combination of everything. I hope that you don't go back to old times. I hope that you evolve together beyond this current state, that you can appreciate the past for what it was but also be able to recognize you hopefully have a long journey ahead together and you're both going to continue to change. Sure, there will be aspects that becomes the "glue" between you but also new "old times" will be created too.


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