# High drive wife dropped off a cliff...



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Ok, so I have posted here before and it has been tumultuous but I am always trying to hang on...for multiple reasons...


I am having a real hard time with sex and my wife these days though. It is making me feel unwanted and worthless and occasionally depressed.

When I met my wife she was super aggressive, told me to brace myself that she wanted it everyday and always thought about it.
It was great. First really fun sex I have ever had. Sometimes more than I could handle (I'm low drive).

That lasted about six months.

We moved in together and she would jump on me in the morning, felate me in the evening, and more in bed later.

I thought this couldn't last, but it was fun and she insisted to the point of argument that "I know myself and I guarantee that you will never have to worry about sex with me. I want it all the time I LOVE it!!!"

Well sure enough after we get engaged things start to change...
By the time we are married six months later its down to once or twice a month or so.

Now a year later it MIGHT be once every two months.

Her progression has been:

- Wants it all the time
- Wants it some of the time, but is very happy to get me off if not
- Wants it rarely, will still felate me quite happily
- Wants it even less. Now she won't give me fela, only a hand job. Now she is telling me she doesn't want to give fellatio if there is no sex. Well she is the one who refuses sex now and this was not a condition only a few months ago...
- Hand job every other week and if I mention anything I am "pushing her" and that makes her less likely to want to have sex.
-She will fondle me in bed and fall asleep. My penis is "cute" for her - that's it.

Meanwhile she flips on every few months for one day. Says she would like me to be more aggressive...but shuts me down when I approach.

I feel like I am being conditioned to have a sexless marriage and accept it.



Massive bait and switch...and it is bumming me out something awful...


On her side:

She is hitting menopause and missing periods
She has had lower back problems
She is stressed about work.

I think the first is the biggest factor, but it has been for a while and she was still willing to try or at least get me off as she swore she enjoyed...

Now I cannot talk about the subject or she gets very angry then uses that as an excuse to not engage at all.
If we can't talk about it how will it do anything but get worse?

Other relevant points:
We have a MC. The docs says my wife needs a lot of time to open up as she was very closed down to other people. Basically she wants to rely on me and be open but doesn't yet know how.

No she is not cheating. There is no one else. I'm absolutely sure of this 100%.

So now I am almost sexless and made to feel guilty if I feel anything other than OK with that. If I'm not then I am not "understanding" and she gets angry...



*On top of this *I have trust issues with her originating from her previous sex life.
She warned me she had many partners, so I asked if she always had safe sex...she said she did (me = stupid).
Then earlier this year she found out she had chlamydia and confirmed HPV suspected two years earlier. Now she says well maybe she wasn't always using condoms, they fell off some times or broke.

Just recently she "accidentally" revealed she would often not us a condom until the guy got hard, rationalizing that the condom would not stay on. I feel like I am talking to an early teen now.

OK. So now she pretty much never had safe sex...
Which means I now carry high-risk HPV so she's my last sexual partner even if things totally fall apart 

What do I do in a situation like this?
I will not cheat as I only want to be with her..but I want to feel WANTED like I once did...and I want to believe her when she says things that matter...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I sure hope as hell this is not me in a few years... playing with fire at the moment with my wife (she's HD but rather excessive, 3x a day). For me it wasn't a progressive jump, it was HD which was great, then marriage, and it got excessive. I really don't know what to say...

How do you initiate with her? Do you ask her for it? Do you two flirt/tease etc etc?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

I initiate by kissing her in bed or just touching her playfully...
I get one excuse or another..and if I don't immediately accept I get angry wifey...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Good, at least you don't ask. I'm assuming your initiations are based on her responses throughout the years yes? In which case then you're fine there...

But another thing that did catch my eye was that you mentioned:


> Meanwhile she flips on every few months for one day. Says she would like me to be more aggressive...but shuts me down when I approach.


How does she shut you down exactly?

Normally if my wife gave me that clue it means "no = yes" for the rest of the night, but that's just us...


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

She says not tonight..my back hurts / my period is coming / my period is late / I'm tired / I'm stressed. Not now. I told you. If you don't understand...you SAID you understand...grrrrrrr

Something like that.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Her back hurts? Give her a massage, easy way to open the doors for further physical touch (and evil teases hehe)
She's tired? Tell her to relax, then tease her senseless - give her some, pull away, give her some more, pull away, after a while she'll jump you
Stressed? Sex is best for relief, everyone knows that
Period? Orgasms relieves cramps for my wife and she's the one always needing it

You mentioned you had it everyday yes? You should know all her buttons by now... I just don't get it =/


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Her back hurts? Give her a massage, easy way to open the doors for further physical touch (and evil teases hehe)
> She's tired? Tell her to relax, then tease her senseless - give her some, pull away, give her some more, pull away, after a while she'll jump you
> Stressed? Sex is best for relief, everyone knows that
> Period? Orgasms relieves cramps for my wife and she's the one always needing it
> ...



Well to be fair her back issues are at the MRI/X-ray level...she partially herniated a disk and has occasional sciatica these days. Not something a massage would fix...


As for buttons...the ones I know don't work any more ...kissing at the back of the neck or ear...now she squirms away...
We used to kiss passionately. Now she can't go for more than a few seconds making some joke or something to break it.

Previously she needed no buttons. She initiated and came at me strong. I was the low drive partner.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh... nevermind =/

It seems like you understand non-sexual touches as well, hell... :scratchhead:

I don't know at this point, I do know though that despite her excessive desires my wife still rejects me from time to time when I don't follow the 'steps'; such as, if I'm all stinky, if I bring up issues, if I mention other women, or if I'm depressed and turning her off. She's very upfront about her turn offs however

Ok, how about present times with your wife, the once every 2 months thing - who initiates? When was the last time she initiated?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Usually she initiates. For me its a whole lot of fail...she just doesn't feel anything these days...


----------



## Kuryos (May 22, 2010)

I'm afraid the short answer to your question about what you do now is "Nothing". You have already made that decision.

You note that she complains that she wishes that you were more aggressive or assertive but then rebuffs your attempts to do just that.

I suspect from what you have described that she is the assertive one and also inconsiderate of your or pretty much anyone else's needs or desires unless they are suitable to meet her needs or wants. Put another way, she is strictly a taker who only gives if it helps her get what she wants.

And she has always been like that, even when she was f***ing you silly three times a day. The fact that she may only be f***king you three times a year now is still all about her agenda, the agenda she has always had. It's just the substance of it that has changed. It's always about HER.

And she has you exactly where she wants and on any occasion that you show signs of resurrection, rebellion she wheels out the anger and aggression card to keep you under control and always on the back foot. I have no idea how much of this is a conscious, deliberate effort and how much is instinctive, but I wonder whether from your perspective how much the distinction does matter, should matter.

And she lied, outright about her sexual past, consciously, deliberating putting a spin on it that she thought you would be prepared to swallow. It's not that she has a 'recovering memory' about it.

In short, you are being used and have always been used, even if you don't recognise it as such. To some degree you are dependent on her and she knows it.

I really don't have anything remotely sensible to suggest what you might do from a practical perspective allowing for your practical health situation. I will make one pretty bald observation, though, based on the observations of both men and women in a similar position to you have made elsewhere. They said that they preferred to live alone literally, rather than live alone, sleeping night-by-night beside their partner.

I don't have a clue how this is affecting you emotionally or psychologically, with your self-esteem and self-confidence, but I am sure that will change over the future and it will not get better with the status quo as it is. I ask this question, not provocatively, but out of genuine consideration, what is happening to your sense of dignity, your sense of "self", during all this? What impact is it having on you? On reflection, how important is that to you, to your well-being?

Have you considered counselling, therapy, for your self, to just let you tease any of these issues out in a more adequate fashion?


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can't have a conversation about her back or her stress.

What you have to have a conversation about is will she choose to be the wife you married, or will she choose not to.

Once you have your answer, you make a decision.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Well I came home last night and demanded an apology for some bad behaviour she did yesterday; laying down the boundaries.

She first rejected the idea of an apology but then did so though not quite genuine.

So I pushed her on it and it became a fight and I packed my bag. Then she started crying (she never cries) and blocked me. I backed down and agreed to talk.

About sex, it is more menopause than anything. For her there is a lot of work stress and relationship stress and I understand that - it affects me too. Menopause has really hurt her, but I still need her to show me that I am wanted. I told her that in the past she stated many times that a relationship without sex is not a relationship...so what are we then??? 

She laments her lost libido and that feeling of healthiness. 
Don't really know what to do about it though...
If I had ED or something I would not want to be complained to about sex..but I know everyone has needs physical and emotional.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So you bought all that? Hook line sinker. 

So am I right that she now has you set up with nowhere to go from here? Is there any way to put your foot down at this point?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

There is no where for me to go sexually, yeah. If she is menopausal she is just not going to have desire and I don't want sex with a sack of potatoes.
She is trying some things (DHEA and Maca) and they have helped a little...but not much.


EDIT:
Also consider leaving will not help.
I now carry high-risk HPV and being with another woman would put her at risk for cervical cancer. I won't do that.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

I have done some thinking on this...and I believe in the long term situation it is untenable.
I'd rather have no sex on my own than be with a woman who was so horny all her life and now doesn't care about my needs or feelings.

I am going to sit her down tonite and tell her we are going to have sex once a week.
Maybe it won't be perfect, maybe it won't be magical.
Maybe she won't even like it that much.
*But we are going to do it.*

Now we are in a habit of not doing anything for weeks and months on end.
I am going to make it a habit of at least trying.
If she doesn't want to try then she is telling me she doesn't care and I will take that message to heart.


She told me once it was her responsibility as my wife to make sure I am happy sexually...she now needs to heed her own words or watch me go.


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Corum said:


> There is no where for me to go sexually, yeah. If she is menopausal she is just not going to have desire and I don't want sex with a sack of potatoes.
> She is trying some things (DHEA and Maca) and they have helped a little...but not much.
> 
> 
> ...


Corum,

How do you know you have high risk HPV? Have you had lesions? Have you had HPV typing? Get the heck out of this relationship! HPV is hugely prevalent. It is not a death sentance and certainly not a reason to stay in an a relationship with a lying spouse


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

KanDo said:


> Corum,
> 
> How do you know you have high risk HPV? Have you had lesions? Have you had HPV typing? Get the heck out of this relationship! HPV is hugely prevalent. It is not a death senstence and certainly not a reason to stay in an a relationship with a lying spouse


She has it and therefore so do I as in 99% of the cases.
There is no test for men.
High risk HPV - which causes CC - does not cause lesions in men


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

There is an effective vaccine for the most dangerous strains of HPV.

Of course there are viral load tests for men. What are you talking about?

At least 80% of sexually active adults have been exposed to all strains of HPV. Condoms don't protect you from infection. Most people's immune systems destroy the virus efficiently.

CC is not a death sentence. If caught early during a routine pap smear it is eminently treatable.

You are catastrophizing and enjoying blaming your wife for ruining your future prospects. Get a little better informed.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Lyris said:


> There is an effective vaccine for the most dangerous strains of HPV.
> 
> Of course there are viral load tests for men. What are you talking about?
> 
> ...




Seriously?
You are calling me in informed?

Vaccinations are for before exposure; not after. And we are both about 20 years too old for that.

HPV is a virus; it never goes away - only symptoms.

There is _no approved_ test for men.

My wife already has LISL positive and has to go back to the Dr. ever three months until is gets full blown and THEN she can get it cut out.


I am not enjoying anything about this. Only a sick individual would think something like that...


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

That's not true. The immune system can and does destroy viruses all the time. How do you think people get over colds and flu?

I understand how vaccines work.. I was referring to your unwillingness to expose future partners; obviously in the unlikely event they had not been exposed already, they could be vaccinated, thus protecting them from infection from you.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

One has to develop immunity to the virus it doesn't go away.
High-risk HPV strains are much harder to eliminate. 
My wife had hers for at least a year or more before passing it to me.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Stardusted said:


> Rape night?


Hell no... but I am not gonna sit in the corner and beg anymore...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> Well I came home last night and demanded an apology for some bad behaviour she did yesterday; laying down the boundaries.
> 
> She first rejected the idea of an apology but then did so though not quite genuine.
> 
> ...


There are things that can be done to improve her libido. 

Tell her that she needs to see a doctor and sort this out. If I were you I'd go to the doctor with her so that you can be sure that the doc is told what is going on.

Another thing that could help is to see a MC who is also a sex therapist. They can help quite a bit as there are techniques that can be used to get a person back into a sex life.

If she will not do the things necessary get your sex life back on track then divorce is probably our only other reasonable option.

Her lack of interest in sex right now might be legitimate and I think you need to start by assuming it is.

But if she's not willing to seek out the help and do what is needed to improve things then there is a lot more going on that she's not talking about.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Corum said:


> One has to develop immunity to the virus it doesn't go away.
> High-risk HPV strains are much harder to eliminate.
> My wife had hers for at least a year or more before passing it to me.


Well, leaving aside that the immune system certainly does kill viruses, that's what immunity means, how do you know your wife had the virus for a year before passing it to you? I thought you hadn't had a test because there weren't any? And you didn't have symptoms because men don't get them? 

Further to that, how do you know it wasn't you who passed the virus to her? Condoms don't prevent transmission of HPV, so even if you always used condoms, you could still be a carrier.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> I have done some thinking on this...and I believe in the long term situation it is untenable.
> I'd rather have no sex on my own than be with a woman who was so horny all her life and now doesn't care about my needs or feelings.
> 
> I am going to sit her down tonite and tell her we are going to have sex once a week.
> ...


What are you going to do if she says no, she will not have sex if she is not going to enjoy it?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Stardusted said:


> Yeah. Begging is humiliating but for your plan to work she has to be 100% on board. If she's not it wont work. Maybe your putting too much pressure on sex? Can't you release yourself instead?



Seem seems pretty on board tonight. She has a cold so I won't initiate - I'm not looking for that.
I release myself almost everyday. What else can I do when sex averages once every 2-3 months?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> What are you going to do if she says no, she will not have sex if she is not going to enjoy it?


If she refuses me constantly then maybe it's time for me to go.
Remember she is the one who said a relationship without sex is no relationship...
This has been going on for over a year.

BTW- She HAS told me she wants me to be more aggressive before - I am very passive.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Well, leaving aside that the immune system certainly does kill viruses, that's what immunity means, how do you know your wife had the virus for a year before passing it to you? I thought you hadn't had a test because there weren't any? And you didn't have symptoms because men don't get them?
> 
> Further to that, how do you know it wasn't you who passed the virus to her? Condoms don't prevent transmission of HPV, so even if you always used condoms, you could still be a carrier.


I was married for 14 year in a totally faithful marriage.
There was no HPV in that relationship at all.

My current wife was with a few dozen guys in the same period - by her own admission.


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are things that can be done to improve her libido.
> 
> Tell her that she needs to see a doctor and sort this out. If I were you I'd go to the doctor with her so that you can be sure that the doc is told what is going on.
> 
> ...


We have talked a lot about this but she won't do anything significant. Just some supplements. She doesn't really seem to care - though I know she would not tolerate it the other way...she has said so.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> If she refuses me constantly then maybe it's time for me to go.
> Remember she is the one who said a relationship without sex is no relationship...
> This has been going on for over a year.


I think that you are aware that sometimes our bodies play some pretty mean tricks on us. For example sometimes women completely lose their sex drive either temporarily or permanently during right before or during menopause. I can imagine that it’s it could be hard to want to have sex without a sex drive.
Men can lose their sex drive as well with hormone fluxuations. It’s not just a female thing.
When she said that about marriage not being a marriage without sex she was high drive. She probably never imagined that she would come to a point when she lost her sex drive.
I’m just playing devil’s advocate here as I have no idea what’s going on with her.


Corum said:


> BTW- She HAS told me she wants me to be more aggressive before - I am very passive.


Yea I’ve been through this with a husband who got to appoint where he would not initiate. So I asked him to be more aggressive and initiate more when I realized that I was the only one initiating. He said he would but did not. I got to the point where it felt like I was begging for sex when I initiated. So I stopped initiating. He never showed any interest in initiating. So our sex life fell off to none at all. I divorced him.

Sorry but for a lot of women passive is a huge turn off.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> I was married for 14 year in a totally faithful marriage.
> There was no HPV in that relationship at all.
> 
> My current wife was with a few dozen guys in the same period - by her own admission.


So between your previous marriage and your dating your wife you did not have sex with any other woman?


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

EleGirl - I appreciate your input. Thanks.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> We have talked a lot about this but she won't do anything significant. Just some supplements. She doesn't really seem to care - though I know she would not tolerate it the other way...she has said so.


Then there is another problem that she is not talking about. She might not even know what it is. 

If she will not work with you to improve things.. either by seeking help medically or by talking about other issues then there's nothing left.

It's probably time to leave.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Corum said:


> EleGirl - I appreciate your input. Thanks.


You are welcome


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Then there is another problem that she is not talking about. She might not even know what it is.
> 
> If she will not work with you to improve things.. either by seeking help medically or by talking about other issues then there's nothing left.
> 
> It's probably time to leave.


This is another problem.
She doesn't like doctors or medication...so she essentially won't go for a hormone profile even though her gyno told her she is likely heading into menopause. 

She is basically not interested in really doing anything significant to help our relationship. 
When I first met her I had come out of a nasty divorce. She was SUPER high drive and I had problems. I did everything under the sun hormonally and every other med. to please her because she was important to me. I don't expect the same, but I do expect some effort.

Intimacy and sex are important between a couple especially when one (her) of them is not into closeness or sharing. without that physical touch how are we even married? We are just room mates...


----------



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Well for anyone interested .., we have progress.
Sent my wife the note Thursday. Sex Friday night and Saturday morning.

I think I am a bit too passive for her and that has de-motivated her sex drive as well as the realities of menopause. She told me initially she was pissed when she read my email, but now is glad she went along.


*And have I have read No More Mr Nice guy (I'm not a nice guy in that sense though) and married Men Sex Life; but neither really apply.


----------

