# Getting less careful about Covid, but wife disagrees



## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

My wife and I are triple-jabbed, everyone is healthy, no underlying conditions. We have two small kids who are too young to be vaccinated. For the past two years we have been super careful. Never went anywhere indoors with the kids. Never set foot inside a restaurant or bar.

Recently I started reading up on the chances of the kids getting very sick from Covid and it seems that at their age and health, it really is no more dangerous than RSV or the flu. Since my wife and I are protected, and Omicron is milder than previous variants, I have come to believe that Covid is now not a big health risk for us anymore.

So last week I went to a coffee shop and had coffee there. No masks to be seen. It felt liberating. I came home and told my wife, which didn’t go down well. She said that I am willingly putting our family at risk, and that I don’t seem to care about the kids, or about the consequences for her (like disruption to her work because the kids will need to isolate). I do care and wouldn’t have done something like this a year ago, but I just think that now the risk is more manageable.

She said that I’m just selfish and am putting my needs above the family. I guess that’s true, because there was no pressing need to go to that coffee shop. But it’s also true that I feel I am able to make sound decisions myself.

Today we were talking about returning to the office, and she asked me again to not eat or drink indoors. I offered that I will eat outside whenever I can, but when it’s raining or otherwise difficult I still think it’s ok to eat inside. She got angry again and repeated that I show no respect for her. I asked whether we can find a middle ground somehow and she said no, because now she doesn’t trust that I will make sound decisions and she needs to impose a strict boundary here.

I feel like she is overreacting, but of course I’m also not willing to do exactly what she’s asking for. Should I just give in?


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Your wife sounds like she's mentally struggling with a return to normality. Many are and I started a thread on this yesterday myself.

What is her main concern? Taking time off with the kids if needed or something else? Many countries are beginning the end game for the pandemic. What can you do to help your wife build confidence to re-integrate? 

For example, can you tell her that you will go to the coffee shop, but if it looks too busy, you won't go in? That you'll wear your mask when not eating or drinking, kind of a halfway house. And that if you get Covid and the kids need to isolate, you'll take the required time off with them.

So no, I don't think you should just give in, but hear her concerns and try to address them, a bit of compromise on both sides.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

davebrubeck1 said:


> My wife and I are triple-jabbed, everyone is healthy, no underlying conditions. We have two small kids who are too young to be vaccinated. For the past two years we have been super careful. Never went anywhere indoors with the kids. Never set foot inside a restaurant or bar.
> 
> Recently I started reading up on the chances of the kids getting very sick from Covid and it seems that at their age and health, it really is no more dangerous than RSV or the flu. Since my wife and I are protected, and Omicron is milder than previous variants, I have come to believe that Covid is now not a big health risk for us anymore.
> 
> ...


My wife and I had to negotiate a return to normal. Although it wasn't as bad as your situation, I feel your pain.

The viewpoint that won for me in the end (by "won" I mean brought us to a compromise that worked) was the discussion about living our lives in fear.

We can be afraid of anything and everything, but that's not a life. That's a phobia.

We have to be engaged, at least somewhat, in the normalcy of life.
Otherwise we could be hermits and secluded forever.

Now what message does that send the kids and the people who who look up to us?
Be afraid?
Or should we stand up brave and strong in the world when the whole covid topic fluid based on who you choose to listen to?

Good luck with your situation OP.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Are you and your wife the same political ideology?

It's like two different worlds in our country right now.

Where we live we never left normal. Sure we had to wear masks for awhile but nothing ever closed. Kids were in school. We were at work. We still went to all our favorite bars, restaurants, and stores. People quit wearing masks well over a year ago. But then 20 minutes away in a liberal county they still have a mask mandate.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Oh Covid Schmovid.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your wife has spent about 2 years marinating in fear while isolated. She may need mental health help to move back toward normality.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Two years of injesting the fear being jammed down our throats its no wonder people are like this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

We are in our 60's, had the first 2 vaccines but not a booster and have been shopping, visiting coffee shops, restaurants, children's indoor play areas with a grandchild, parks, swimming pools etc etc for ages now. The risk to children is minute, the risk to you both is very small as well. 
I refuse to live in fear and don't even think about it now. I never watch the news either. 



Yes she is way over reacting, I mean when is she going to get back to normal? 

If she wants to carry on living like a hermit thats her choice but the children desperately need to get out and about. You need to do what is best for you and the children. 

For the vast majority it's no worse than a cold. We don't this for the flu.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Numb26 said:


> Two years of injesting the fear being jammed down our throats its no wonder people are like this.


That's why we don't watch the news.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Two years of injesting the fear being jammed down our throats its no wonder people are like this.


Is was thinking the other day I will not be surprised at all if we discover in a year or so that there is a huge spike in agoraphobia.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i am with you.
here in USA there were what, 80 million who just got Omicron?
and most of the rest are vaxed!
Sounds like HERD IMMUNITY to me.

i still wear a mask in crowded areas, but i have no problem eating in a restaurant, or drinking in a bar, unless they guy beside me is coughing up a lung.


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## Golden Age (May 17, 2020)

Sad that so many people have been induced into a state of fear that is not easy for them to break. It's your wife's behavior that is selfish, not yours. Here in the UK covid is all but history, there are much more pressing issues in life. You've got your work cut out getting her back to some semblance of normality, good luck!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

it is amazing how people that knows crap from scientific and epidemiological facts, reject those facts and instead, they "BELIEVE" what some ignorant morons with not scientific and epidemiological background (with a political and/or pure crazy agenda) has to say. 

The basic point is, right now the latest strain is the OMICRON one, although highly contagious its effects are mild to "most" people,especially to those that were vaccinated and with the booster. But as far as children, specially those under 5, and infants the fact is that hospitals and pediatrician have experienced a higher incident of cases than the other strains of the virus seriously affecting those children.

So the question is for those that have children under 5: Without knowing your child's immunological make up, and or any inherent hidden secondary issues that might be dormant, unknown to you or your pediatrician, would you take the risk to find out how your child's body would react to this particular strain of the virus? are you willing to play russian roulette with your child's life?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I live in a non-restrictive state so life here has never been what it has in states with restrictions. I still see some masks here and there but things are normal again. Those who want to isolate do and those who don’t want to don’t.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> So the question is for those that have children under 5: Without knowing your child's immunological make up, and or any inherent hidden secondary issues that might be dormant, unknown to you or your pediatrician, would you take the risk to find out how your child's body would react to this particular strain of the virus? are you willing to play russian roulette with your child's life?


What is the alternative? Lock them away until they’re age 5? That doesn’t sound good either.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

davebrubeck1 said:


> My wife and I are triple-jabbed, everyone is healthy, no underlying conditions. We have two small kids who are too young to be vaccinated. For the past two years we have been super careful. Never went anywhere indoors with the kids. Never set foot inside a restaurant or bar.
> 
> Recently I started reading up on the chances of the kids getting very sick from Covid and it seems that at their age and health, it really is no more dangerous than RSV or the flu. Since my wife and I are protected, and Omicron is milder than previous variants, I have come to believe that Covid is now not a big health risk for us anymore.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is a middle ground for people who are scared enough about covid that they want to stay locked up for life.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Is was thinking the other day I will not be surprised at all if we discover in a year or so that there is a huge spike in agoraphobia.


Most people have been out and about to some extent I would have thought.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> What is the alternative? Lock them away until they’re age 5? That doesn’t sound good either.


Why would you have to lock them away? who is saying that? Universal precautions is what anyone with children should be doing. not too hard to follow .


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> it is amazing how people that knows crap from scientific and epidemiological facts, reject those facts and instead, they "BELIEVE" what some ignorant morons with not scientific and epidemiological background (with a political and/or pure crazy agenda) has to say.
> 
> The basic point is, right now the latest strain is the OMICRON one, although highly contagious its effects are mild to "most" people,especially to those that were vaccinated and with the booster. But as far as children, specially those under 5, and infants the fact is that hospitals and pediatrician have experienced a higher incident of cases than the other strains of the virus seriously affecting those children.
> 
> So the question is for those that have children under 5: Without knowing your child's immunological make up, and or any inherent hidden secondary issues that might be dormant, unknown to you or your pediatrician, would you take the risk to find out how your child's body would react to this particular strain of the virus? are you willing to play russian roulette with your child's life?


Kids here are just mixing as normal and that's how it should be. No small children have been vaccinated, they dont need to be. Only the older teens have have been offered the jabs. Most children who get it here don't seem to have any symptoms at all. Others have cold like symptoms. 
It's just not dangerous to children.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Kids here are just mixing as normal and that's how it should be. No small children have been vaccinated, they dont need to be. Only the older teens have have been offered the jabs. Most children who get it here don't seem to have any symptoms at all. Others have cold like symptoms.
> It's just not dangerous to children.


Less than 1/2000 of all death have been kids 17 and under.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Thank you all. We live in a very liberal area and many of our friends are similarly careful.
My wife says I should just wait until the kids are vaccinated. What 


MarmiteC said:


> Your wife sounds like she's mentally struggling with a return to normality. Many are and I started a thread on this yesterday myself.
> 
> What is her main concern? Taking time off with the kids if needed or something else? Many countries are beginning the end game for the pandemic. What can you do to help your wife build confidence to re-integrate?
> 
> ...


This is very helpful, and thanks to all of you for your support. Yes, crafting compromises and careful opening up sounds good.

I just hope that I can navigate this. Her main concern seems to be that I’m willing to make the kids and her sick just to have some fun. She’s also worried about long Covid somehow. We have other and bigger issues too so it’s fraught territory.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Less than 1/2000 of all death have been kids 17 and under.


Give that statistics that the parents of those children that fall in the 1/2000. That should make them be upbeat, won't it?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

From someone that was very involved at a high level, Omicron should not be called Covid, it is significantly different. The risk levels are very different and for children, the risk was extremely low the entire time.

That said, if your wife is driving your kids in a car, she is putting them at higher risk than you (or them) not wearing a mask.

The difficult part of this is that people have to CHANGE what they have been doing, and she is likely not very good at that. Anyone under 60 without underlying conditions should be analyzing how they treat this versus other risks they take.

Is she going to do this forever?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Give that statistics that the parents of those children that fall in the 1/2000. That should make them be upbeat, won't it?


I'm sure their kids having their futures completely destroyed over an illness that almost doesn't affect kids will make them feel better.
I'd rather have my kids take their chances than not be qualified for any jobs above welfare recipient, but that's just me.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> it is amazing how people that knows crap from scientific and epidemiological facts, reject those facts and instead, they "BELIEVE" what some ignorant morons with not scientific and epidemiological background (with a political and/or pure crazy agenda) has to say.
> 
> The basic point is, right now the latest strain is the OMICRON one, although highly contagious its effects are mild to "most" people,especially to those that were vaccinated and with the booster. But as far as children, specially those under 5, and infants the fact is that hospitals and pediatrician have experienced a higher incident of cases than the other strains of the virus seriously affecting those children.
> 
> So the question is for those that have children under 5: Without knowing your child's immunological make up, and or any inherent hidden secondary issues that might be dormant, unknown to you or your pediatrician, would you take the risk to find out how your child's body would react to this particular strain of the virus? are you willing to play russian roulette with your child's life?


So that’s an argument my wife also makes. The thing is, I have looked at the epidemiological evidence and read several studies that try to quantify the risk of Covid to children, as well as several interviews with hospital pediatricians. They all seem to say that there is a higher incidence with Omicron but overall the risk is not higher than, say, RSV. 

Before the pandemic, we didn’t say let’s not eat indoors because there is the flu and RSV, we don’t know the immunological makeup of our children. It was also Russian roulette, every day - children can die from the flu! But we took the risk. And now it’s supposed to be different. Do you see what I mean?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

davebrubeck1 said:


> So that’s an argument my wife also makes. The thing is, I have looked at the epidemiological evidence and read several studies that try to quantify the risk of Covid to children, as well as several interviews with hospital pediatricians. They all seem to say that there is a higher incidence with Omicron but overall the risk is not higher than, say, RSV.
> 
> Before the pandemic, we didn’t say let’s not eat indoors because there is the flu and RSV, we don’t know the immunological makeup of our children. It was also Russian roulette, every day - children can die from the flu! But we took the risk. And now it’s supposed to be different. Do you see what I mean?


The odds of kids dying from the flu and dying from covid are about the same.
Don't tell the wife, because your kids will never see outside ever again.


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## jk1223 (11 mo ago)

COVID as it stands now is no more dangerous than the flu, a head cold, or a stomach bug. ANY illness is dangerous to the right person. Viruses on the whole will mutate to become more infectious, meaning more people catch it, but less severe, meaning milder illness. Viruses that kill their hosts quickly do not spread effectively (thank goodness otherwise ebola would have taken us all out a long time ago) and a viruses one and ONLY purpose is to survive. It has to spread to survive. So while we may still hear about more cases, there will be relatively fewer deaths and hospitalizations. I saw this as someone deep in the medical field and also as a daughter who lost a father to one of the earlier strains of COVID a year ago today.

We have existed on a diet of constant fear for almost two years now. We live our lives waiting to be told what to panic over next. That's an adrenaline high in a way and can be very difficult to move away from. I personally think there is absolutely no reason we cannot carry on with our lives as usual. My family does not wear masks or avoid activities. We do what we want and do not believe in mandates. I have a sister who does wear a mask and avoids public areas because she is terminally ill with cancer. She did this before COVID as well because cancer treatments obliterated her immune system. Each family makes their own choices. If you would not take these same precautions for any other infectious disease, then I believe you are doing it out of fear and conditioning, not knowledge. We have always had infectious diseases, they have always been a danger. Why does COVID now get any more consideration? In my practice of late, I have seen more people much sicker with the flu. Now if you treat all cold and flu seasons like this, then that's your choice, but there is no valid reason anymore to make special concessions for COVID.

I cannot tell you how to parent your children, but I can tell you it sounds like they are learning to live afraid. Your wife may not realize that. Think of the psychological toll this has taken on her (and you-hence your liberation at being in a restaurant) and now put that in the mind of a child who has no other frame of reference. Is that really the way you and your wife want your children to grow up? I doubt it or you would not be on here asking our opinions. It's quite possible your wife is having a hard time seeing past her own fear well enough to take the mental health of your children into account. She certainly does not mean any harm. She may think she is protecting them, but there is not a real threat here anymore (we can debate if there was one at a later time). We do the best we can with our kids, but at some point, we have to take the gloves off and let them live. I would much rather mine take the small risk of a cold than to grow up to be nervous nellies afraid of their own shadows or with social adjustment disorders. It may take some counselling for her to come to some of these realizations. In dealing with it though, do keep in mind, that in her mind, she is protecting her children. You have to handle it carefully or mama bear will dig in. She needs to see that you are concerned with the welfare of your family, not just trying to prove her wrong.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Most people have been out and about to some extent I would have thought.


There are still people who barely leave the house. I think there are strong introverts who liked Covid giving them the excuse to be reclusive and after a couple years of it I think some of those people maybe in a mental crisis that will make if very uncomfortable for them to start getting back to normal. There will be a lot to unpack for psychologists.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

re16 said:


> rom someone that was very involved at a high level, Omicron should not be called Covid


For someone that claims to be involved at a high level, you seems to ignore what pediatricians that are the ones submitting the big majority of the data as to the effects of the Omicron (and yes, is a Covid variant) on children. Not that they are dying, and or dropping like flies, but the much higher incident of contagion on children, and the serious conditions that some of these children are experiencing. I guess telling those parents that the strain shouldn't be called Omicron will make them feel much, much better while they are looking at their child all intubated in a hospital.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> Less than 1/2000 of all death have been kids 17 and under.


And most of them were children who were already very ill.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

I think some people really need to turn off their TV's, wean themselves off the fear porn and start living their lifes again.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> And most of them were children who were already very ill.


Yes. The average covid death had four or more comorbities.
As Dr. Oz put it, they had one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> For someone that claims to be involved at a high level, you seems to ignore what pediatricians that are the ones submitting the big majority of the data as to the effects of the Omicron (and yes, is a Covid variant) on children. Not that they are dying, and or dropping like flies, but the much higher incident of contagion on children, and the serious conditions that some of these children are experiencing. I guess telling those parents that the strain shouldn't be called Omicron will make them feel much, much better while they are looking at their child all intubated in a hospital.


Are there cases of that, yes, is it very very rare, yes.

If we are going to base how we act on such a small percentage of cases, then there are many things that need to change.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> There are still people who barely leave the house. I think there are strong introverts who liked Covid giving them the excuse to be reclusive and after a couple years of it I think some of those people maybe in a mental crisis that will make if very uncomfortable for them to start getting back to normal. There will be a lot to unpack for psychologists.


You may be right. I am an introvert but its hard to grasp how people literally haven't left the house in 2 years even if just for walks or to see the doctor or dentist, popping to the local shops or to see a friend or family member.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Your poor wife, the media is to blame for this. At first, yes, there were reasons to be worried because it was new and we all agreed to the "two weeks" thing. It's been blown so far out of proportion and we are only beginning to see the damage this has done to society.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> Why would you have to lock them away? who is saying that? Universal precautions is what anyone with children should be doing. not too hard to follow .


Have you ever seen kids trying to wear a N95 or KN95 mask and exercise good hand hygiene for any extended period of time? Adults can’t even do it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Have you ever seen kids trying to wear a N95 or KN95 mask and exercise good hand hygiene for any extended period of time? Adults can’t even do it.


Just keeping one's distance by 2m is enough to remove 80% of the risk.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Liberal media has done so much fear mongering that it's consumers are going to have a difficult time returning to normal.

It's one of the challenges the Democrat party is facing with midterms...continuing restrictions aren't polling well with the independents and are not really supported by data. But the base is so terrified that it's going to be challenging to get them on board.

I don't mean this to be a partisan judgment....I have voted for both parties. It's what I would tell Dem candidates if I was advising them.

The hysterical charges of "selfish" and "evil" are fear based. I have a friend who's currently not speaking to a doctor friend of hers because the doctor isn't recommending vaccines to everyone and isn't masked every time she leaves her house. Yep...she (with no medical degree) thinks doctor friend (medical degree) is a quack. That's what fear does to people.

Even when the kids are vaccinated the goal posts will move once a new variant shows up until people break the mindset of living in fear.

Have some patience with your wife and try to help her ease out of living in fear.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In my opinion, the masks do more harm than good. Those surgical masks and cloth masks are about as useful as window screen to hold back water.

You are wearing a piece of cloth across your mouth that collects and holds every germ in the air. Most people handle them with their unwashed hands, put them in pockets, store them in car consoles, and use the same mask over and over and directly breathing in whatever is festering on them. Washing them breaks down the cloth even more.

I believe your best defense is washing hands, getting the vaccine, and staying away from known sick people.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> In my opinion, the masks do more harm than good. Those surgical masks and cloth masks are about as useful as window screen to hold back water.
> 
> You are wearing a piece of cloth across your mouth that collects and holds every germ in the air. Most people handle them with their unwashed hands, put them in pockets, store them in car consoles, and use the same mask over and over and directly breathing in whatever is festering on them. Washing them breaks down the cloth even more.
> 
> I believe your best defense is washing hands, getting the vaccine, and staying away from known sick people.


I prefer to liken it to a chain link fence trying to hold back a tsunami.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Statisticly speaking, COVID was never all that dangerous, but I get it — we didn’t know that at first. But we do now, and it’s even less dangerous these days sooo…

1. Get your vitamin D levels checked and take supplements as needed.

2. Get your DRA of vitamin C and zinc.

3. Turn off your TV and go for a walk — without a mask.

4. If you’ve not yet been infected, don’t worry — you will. The good news is that the latest variants are far weaker (though far more infectious) than the original. That’s how viruses work, though, and the same thing happened with Spanish influenza 100 years ago.

What we have to contend with now is the impact of multiple governments — and multiple _levels_ of government — wreaking havoc on economies all over the world. This is what will continue to bring grief for so many in the years and decades to come.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The risks for a young child having an mRNA vaccine is greater than if they caught covid. There is no way that I would ever have a child vaccinated against covid. 

It's also very damaging for a young child to be kept isolated. I saw the effects on small children in my family having to be kept away from others for even just a few months when we were all told to isolate. 
It took quite a while for them to get used to seeing new people and being out and about again, and now they are living as normal thankfully but children need to mix. They need to see family and friends. They need to interact with other children. Those early years are so very important in their development and your children have already lost so much by being isolated for 2 whole years. How much longer are you going to let her damage their development? 
Another year? When do they go to school or kindergarten? Will she even let them go?


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

ccpowerslave said:


> Have you ever seen kids trying to wear a N95 or KN95 mask and exercise good hand hygiene for any extended period of time? Adults can’t even do it.


Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Lol I knew I couldn't possibly be the only one to think this.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> The risks for a young child having an mRNA vaccine is greater than if they caught covid. There is no way that I would ever have a child vaccinated against covid.
> 
> It's also very damaging for a young child to be kept isolated. I saw the effects on small children in my family being kept away from others for even just a few months when we were all told to isolate.
> It took quite a while for them to get used to seeing new people and being out and about again, and now they are living as normal thankfully but children need to mix. They need to see family and friends. They need to interact with other children. Those early years are so very important in their development and your children have already lost so much by being isolated for 2 whole years. How much longer are you going to let her damage their development?
> Another year? When do they go to school or kindergarten? Will she even let them go?


I fear the real damage to many kids is still ahead of us
I can't imagine the potential developmental issues that we've caused though this mess.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I fear the real damage to many kids is still ahead of us
> I can't imagine the potential developmental issues that we've caused though this mess.


Far worse than the runny noses they might experience. Babies born during this time have had a marked lower IQ than any previous generations studied.

Bottom line is people need to stop being such whiney little pussies.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Far worse than the runny noses they might experience. Babies born during this time have had a marked lower IQ than any previous generations studied.
> 
> Bottom line is people need to stop being such whiney little pussies.


That counts out half the country!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> That counts out half the country!


They will be fine as long as they can still order their soy lattes on doordash.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I fear the real damage to many kids is still ahead of us
> I can't imagine the potential developmental issues that we've caused though this mess.


I think it depends on the parents and how they dealt with it all. If they were pretty relaxed and made sure that as far as was possible the children were taken out and mixed with others when permitted they will probably be ok. 

In families such as the OP's, you may be right.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Op how old are your children now?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

How long until your kids can be vaccinated?


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Babies born during this time have had a marked lower IQ than any previous generations studied.


Was ongoing before covid.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Do you see what I mean?


Yes i do. Just in case you didn't know, covid is not like the flu. the Sars 2 virus, affect your body differently, and it's way more insidious and dangerous to anyone that gets it unlike the Flu. You might refuse to accept facts, and I'm not here to persuade you, just to let you know that with Sars 2 you are really playing russian roulette with your children's life. They might get it, and have some or none symptoms for a couple of days and them they'll be fine, then again they might not make it, or get so seriously sick that they will have some serious side effects for who knows how long.

So are you willing to to take the risk? that's the question for you to consider.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> Yes i do. Just in case you didn't know, covid is not like the flu. the Sars 2 virus, affect your body differently, and it's way more insidious and dangerous to anyone that gets it unlike the Flu. You might refuse to accept facts, and I'm not here to persuade you, just to let you know that with Sars 2 you are really playing russian roulette with your children's life. They might get it, and have some or none symptoms for a couple of days and them they'll be fine, then again they might not make it, or get so seriously sick that they will have some serious side effects for who knows how long.
> 
> So are you willing to to take the risk? that's the question for you to consider.


Do you enjoy a good soy latte from time to time?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> You might refuse to accept facts, and I'm not here to persuade you, just to let you know that with Sars 2 you are really playing russian roulette with your children's life.


So according to the facts children below 5 have a 1/6 chance of dying (normally a revolver is 6 shots so with one live round you’re looking at 1/6)?

Of the 3.5 million C19 deaths in the MPDIR COVerAGE database 0.4% are in people under 20 years of age. 42% of that are among kids 0-9, or 0.42*12300 or 5,166 deaths out of 3.5 million.

CDC data for the adolescent age groups is all over and has C19 ranging from the 6th to 13th leading cause of death FAR behind accidents and also the flu.

So no, it’s not like Russian roulette it’s more like trying to win Powerball.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Sounds like you need to try to assure your wife that your kids will be fine. You just have to take the lead. I’m sure in a liberal area, you will get a lot of glares from the opened minded and snickering from acquaintances but your kids need someone to stand up for them. They are more likely to have delayed speech development caused by being around others wearing a mask than to catch a bad case of Covid.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> Yes i do. Just in case you didn't know, covid is not like the flu. the Sars 2 virus, affect your body differently, and it's way more insidious and dangerous to anyone that gets it unlike the Flu. You might refuse to accept facts, and I'm not here to persuade you, just to let you know that with Sars 2 you are really playing russian roulette with your children's life. They might get it, and have some or none symptoms for a couple of days and them they'll be fine, then again they might not make it, or get so seriously sick that they will have some serious side effects for who knows how long.
> 
> So are you willing to to take the risk? that's the question for you to consider.


That's just not the case here. Children are almost always either without any symptoms or with mild ones. 
They just don't need a vaccine.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

I know the vaccine is a hot topic and everyone has their opinions which is fully expected and fine. 

Covid is starting to decline and Omnicron certainly doesn't seem anywhere near what Delta was and Delta still has the doctors and nurses at the hospital I work at shudder. But I believe at this point its not necessary to keep your kids holled up in the house all day any longer. But don't forget that we are still in cold/flu/sinus infection/strep throat season. And while all of these are just a fact of life, it still sucks to see your little man or lady down and out. I encourage you to give your kid age appropriate dose of vitamin c, wash hands, and keep them away from sick people if possible.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I know the vaccine is a hot topic and everyone has their opinions which is fully expected and fine.
> 
> Covid is starting to decline and Omnicron certainly doesn't seem anywhere near what Delta was and Delta still has the doctors and nurses at the hospital I work at shudder. But I believe at this point its not necessary to keep your kids holled up in the house all day any longer. But don't forget that we are still in cold/flu/sinus infection/strep throat season. And while all of these are just a fact of life, it still sucks to see your little man or lady down and out. I encourage you to give your kid age appropriate dose of vitamin c, wash hands, and keep them away from sick people if possible.


The thing is that children need to mix with others and catch stuff to build up their immunity. The ops children have been kept sheltered for 2 years so when they are eventually allowed out in the real world they will almost certainly catch lots of colds and coughs and the normal childhood stuff because they have low immunity.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Yes. The average covid death had four or more comorbities.
> As Dr. Oz put it, they had one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel.


I know of morticians that were burying people who were killed in car wrecks and the Cause of Death was labeled due to COVID.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

No vaccine here. My GP will not take it and I was told by him not to take it as I have a clotting issue. No one in my family will take it. Business as usual. Take ivermectin weekly.

Oldest was diagnosed with COVID pneumonia and admitted to the he hospital, dosed him with ivermectin day he was admitted.
Went to his room and gave him 2nd dose. Nurse was supprized when she came in quarantine room and I was there. Said I can't believe they let you in here. I said I did not ask. I have a badge and a gun and people tend to not ask questions.
He dosed himself the 3rd day. And was released the 4 day. They had only given him 1 day of treatment of a 5 day series. Ivermectin already dealt with it.

Sad thing is how many died that a $6 tube of duramectin gel from farm/ranch supply, or pills prescribed by Dr. may have saved the lives of many patients. Ivermectin don't fit the agenda of govt funding of pharmaceutical companies or medical establishments. 

My GP, nurses and several veteranarians I know will not take the shot, but take ivermectin.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How long until your kids can be vaccinated?


Well, we're in the US so I expect vaccination for 0-5 year olds to be available in May or so. But who knows what's going to happen.

Thanks for all your points of view. I do believe the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccines the kids got. 

To be clear, they are going to daycare, where they interact and play with other kids and are very happy. I'm not too worried about that part. They also have a fair amount of Covid exposure there already (they had to isolate twice already but always tested negative). That is part of why I feel puzzled that she is OK with them going to daycare, but not with going to a museum or restaurant. I guess the idea is that we can't go without daycare, but we don't have to go to restaurants. That's fair. But, again, the health risk of both things is actually pretty low IMO. I just wish we could have a calm discussion about that.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Well, we're in the US so I expect vaccination for 0-5 year olds to be available in May or so. But who knows what's going to happen.
> 
> Thanks for all your points of view. I do believe the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccines the kids got.
> 
> To be clear, they are going to daycare, where they interact and play with other kids and are very happy. I'm not too worried about that part. They also have a fair amount of Covid exposure there already (they had to isolate twice already but always tested negative). That is part of why I feel puzzled that she is OK with them going to daycare, but not with going to a museum or restaurant. I guess the idea is that we can't go without daycare, but we don't have to go to restaurants. That's fair. But, again, the health risk of both things is actually pretty low IMO. I just wish we could have a calm discussion about that.


She's probably partly motivated in what she likes to do. 
Also, familiarity breeds contempt. The daycare is deemed safe, because they've been there multiple times. However, the museum is unfamiliar, so she doesn't want to chance even though they would be almost the only ones there as is typical for museums.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Well, we're in the US so I expect vaccination for 0-5 year olds to be available in May or so. But who knows what's going to happen.
> 
> Thanks for all your points of view. I do believe the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccines the kids got.
> 
> To be clear, they are going to daycare, where they interact and play with other kids and are very happy. I'm not too worried about that part. They also have a fair amount of Covid exposure there already (they had to isolate twice already but always tested negative). That is part of why I feel puzzled that she is OK with them going to daycare, but not with going to a museum or restaurant. I guess the idea is that we can't go without daycare, but we don't have to go to restaurants. That's fair. But, again, the health risk of both things is actually pretty low IMO. I just wish we could have a calm discussion about that.


That is extremely puzzling lol. Daycare is about as bad as spending the day playing in a hospital laboratory


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that children need to mix with others and catch stuff to build up their immunity. The ops children have been kept sheltered for 2 years so when they are eventually allowed out in the real world they will almost certainly catch lots of colds and coughs and the normal childhood stuff because they have low immunity.


Its normal for children to catch coughs and colds. But if they are catching lots of coughs and colds, they very well might have a compromised immune system.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

davebrubeck1 said:


> Well, we're in the US so I expect vaccination for 0-5 year olds to be available in May or so. But who knows what's going to happen.
> 
> Thanks for all your points of view. I do believe the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccines the kids got.
> 
> To be clear, they are going to daycare, where they interact and play with other kids and are very happy. I'm not too worried about that part. They also have a fair amount of Covid exposure there already (they had to isolate twice already but always tested negative). That is part of why I feel puzzled that she is OK with them going to daycare, but not with going to a museum or restaurant. I guess the idea is that we can't go without daycare, but we don't have to go to restaurants. That's fair. But, again, the health risk of both things is actually pretty low IMO. I just wish we could have a calm discussion about that.


Yes I think your wife is just being as careful as possible under the circumstances, but if you guys get covid it probably will come in through that daycare. I wouldn't cause a big rift if the vaccines are just around the corner so that the end is in sight. I would just get those vaccines as soon as they are available.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> No vaccine here.


Oh no! You' re not vaccinated! You must be eeevillll! You have to be punished. No restaurants, concerts or popsicles for you!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> Give that statistics that the parents of those children that fall in the 1/2000. That should make them be upbeat, won't it?


With this "logic," you shouldn't drive or fly. Or do anything really, because life is dangerous. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

One of my husband's coworkers, J, just died from the consequences of fear of COVID. He wasn't feeling well, but he and his wife have been holed up on their house since this whole COVID nightmare emerged. They worked from home and barely ever left. They isolated themselves from family and friends. My husband hadn't seen him for almost two years, when J had to go to the office, for some reason. Dh took one look at him and about panicked. J looked like he was near death. Dh asked him what was going on and J explained that he had been sick and was afraid to go to the doctor's office, which is full of germs. Dh was extremely upset. These two have known each other for over 30 years, before they both worked at the same place. Dh told him that he would drive him to the hospital right then and there, but J declined. He did go to the hospital until about a week later where he passed away a couple of weeks later. If he had been seen sooner, it would have been resolved, but instead, he is dead. All this was from fear.
I can only imagine the pain his family is in. He hasn't seen his children or grandchildren since this all began. It's tragic.
When this first started, we isolated for about two months until my then three year old granddaughter started having fits of crying and wailing that she missed her family. When I heard that, I said, "Enough is enough. We are not doing this anymore." The family agreed and we immediately went back to normal family relations. The only time we have not seen each other was when we had COVID. Almost all of us have gotten it. I'm glad I got it.
I was concerned for my husband. He has COPD. Thankfully it didn't impact him too much and now his immunity is improved due to having it.
I am not going to live my life in fear. I fully expect to die one day, the same as all of those who have gone before me. I'd rather die having given my life to my family over the years than locked away in fear and isolated from those I love and from living a normal life.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> One of my husband's coworkers, J, just died from the consequences of fear of COVID. He wasn't feeling well, but he and his wife have been holed up on their house since this whole COVID nightmare emerged. They worked from home and barely ever left. They isolated themselves from family and friends. My husband hadn't seen him for almost two years, when J had to go to the office, for some reason. Dh took one look at him and about panicked. J looked like he was near death. Dh asked him what was going on and J explained that he had been sick and was afraid to go to the doctor's office, which is full of germs. Dh was extremely upset. These two have known each other for over 30 years, before they both worked at the same place. Dh told him that he would drive him to the hospital right then and there, but J declined. He did go to the hospital until about a week later where he passed away a couple of weeks later. If he had been seen sooner, it would have been resolved, but instead, he is dead. All this was from fear.
> I can only imagine the pain his family is in. He hasn't seen his children or grandchildren since this all began. It's tragic.
> When this first started, we isolated for about two months until my then three year old granddaughter started having fits of crying and wailing that she missed her family. When I heard that, I said, "Enough is enough. We are not doing this anymore." The family agreed and we immediately went back to normal family relations. The only time we have not seen each other was when we had COVID. Almost all of us have gotten it. I'm glad I got it.
> I was concerned for my husband. He has COPD. Thankfully it didn't impact him too much and now his immunity is improved due to having it.
> I am not going to live my life in fear. I fully expect to die one day, the same as all of those who have gone before me. I'd rather die having given my life to my family over the years than locked away in fear and isolated from those I love and from living a normal life.


Sorry that happened to him but that guy was just plain stupid


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Omicron was rampant in my youngest elementary school. They were dropping like flies! Of all the cases, only one child had pneumonia after getting infected. 

My daughter got covid before vaccines were available for her age group. She has been worse with the flu or stomach flu. Same thing with my 4 year old niece. 

I work at medical facilities, but during the peak of covid I was working through video call with patients diagnosed with covid at the emergency room. The majority of little kids were fine. The had the sniffles and a little temperature and that was it. I felt bad for the parents because they were the ones feeling like cr*p and had to take care of energetic kids. 

The biggest problem and delay I've seen in little kids has been in speech. Speech therapist have tried to find a way to make it work with clear masks and clear facial shields, but it has been really hard to progress when those resources don't work. At the same time, there has been a delay in progress when kids or their family members have gotten sick. I really hope things get better this year. 

I don't think kids have been damaged for life because of covid. There are some delays and changes, but kids are very resilient and they'll be fine. If kids with developmental delays are thriving, I'm sure kids without issues will be fine.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Sorry that happened to him but that guy was just plain stupid


Well, he was smart intellectually, a fool. He's not alone. People are living in fear. Fear makes people easier to control. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> Well, he was smart intellectually, a fool. He's not alone. People are living in fear. Fear makes people easier to control.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Agreed, it's all about being controlled by fear. And I don't really understand why when you consider the dangers we face every day just being alive.

Don't live in fear. Just live.
Take whatever precautions are prudent for you, but live.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> She's probably partly motivated in what she likes to do.
> Also, familiarity breeds contempt. The daycare is deemed safe, because they've been there multiple times. However, the museum is unfamiliar, so she doesn't want to chance even though they would be almost the only ones there as is typical for museums.


It's highly likely that it's been right through the day care anyway. The majority of children have none or very mild symptoms so they may have had it. I would never give small children a mRNA jab. I know many people who have had all sorts of long lasting bad effects from it. My husband is on an international website for doctors(he is a scientist) and he had heard of so many doctors telling of how they have had countless patients coming in with so many weird and strange illness and conditions after the jab.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diceplayer said:


> Oh no! You' re not vaccinated! You must be eeevillll! You have to be punished. No restaurants, concerts or popsicles for you!


The ones vaccinated are the possible super carriers that can have it and not realize it due to lack of symptoms. The vaccinated are a danger to the unvaccinated.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> The ones vaccinated are the possible super carriers that can have it and not realize it due to lack of symptoms. The vaccinated are a danger to the unvaccinated.


This is what I tell people who are fearful to meet people who havent had the jabs or boosters. They don't seem to get that the jabs dont stop you catching it or passsing it on.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

That's for sure. I got COVID from someone who got the jab.
In our house, 4/5 of the adults got COVID. Two people came down with it on a Monday. The next on Wednesday. The one person who hasn't had the jab was the last to catch it, on Saturday.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

davebrubeck1 said:


> My wife and I are triple-jabbed, everyone is healthy, no underlying conditions. We have two small kids who are too young to be vaccinated. For the past two years we have been super careful. Never went anywhere indoors with the kids. Never set foot inside a restaurant or bar.
> 
> Recently I started reading up on the chances of the kids getting very sick from Covid and it seems that at their age and health, it really is no more dangerous than RSV or the flu. Since my wife and I are protected, and Omicron is milder than previous variants, I have come to believe that Covid is now not a big health risk for us anymore.
> 
> ...


Personally, I feel the same way that you do, but on the flip-side, I live alone with 2 doggos. On March 1 in Canada, we'll be loosening restrictions to remove masks in public, and will be seeing what the numbers do while that's happening. I do kind of agree with your wife in way that small children should be placed into consideration; no matter how healthy you are, Covid can still affect you. I've known perfectly healthy people who've been hospitalized with it. But, what's with the eating indoors vs outdoors? I don't know of anyone who insists on this. Do you and your wife and kids eat in your yard all the time? It must be nice weather where you are for her to insist that you do this. That's a little weird to me!

My thoughts are this though: everyone is different when it comes to Covid. What's right for one might be incomprehensible to another. It gets tricky though when you're married and have opposing views. Sounds like you guys need to sit down and have a calm talk about it, with both of you guys being open-minded.


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## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Thanks for all your comments. What a great community!


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