# Help, I'm at a complete loss...



## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

Hi folks. I met a woman on Tinder, and we ended up texting for 6-8 hours everyday for a week. We developed a strong bond, no games, total honesty and just very, very open. We had instant chemistry. We met in person after a week of texting and fell hard for each other. I mean really hard. 

I am divorced with 2 kids, 9 and 12. It's been 5 years since my separation, and I've tried several relationships, but never felt "it", until now. She is going through a divorce, 2 kids, 15 and 17. She and her soon to be ex have been living in separate bedrooms for a few years now, basically an in-house separation. She is having him served this month...the tension in the house is brutal. He can be verbally abusive and threatens her with having nothing, etc (he knows she wants divorce but probably doesn't think she'll actually do it). She's absolutely resolute. Papers are being drawn up now. 

She's a stay at home mom, has been for their entire 19 year marriage. She comes to my house, as I obviously can't go there. She's met my kids and they love her, she loves them. Her kids don't know about me, which is appropriate at this stage. She lives about 25 minutes away from me. We have spoken at length about a life together, and what that will look like. The stbx doesn't really have anything to do with their kids, so they'll be going with her when she leaves. 

I feel terrible she has to do all the driving to see me, but I don't know of an alternative, and neither does she. She's under a lot of stress, obviously. She wants to be with me all the time (and I with her), but of course she still needs to be present for her kids. She doesn't know how her husband will react - likely force a sale of the house. So, she doesn't know where she'll live, how long the house will take to sell, how the kids will react, how he'll react, what it means financially (they have a good deal of equity in a large property, so her lawyer said she'll be taken care of.) She also thinks she'll get lifelong support due to the length of the marriage and the fact she was very ill for several years with no support from him - it's all documented. 

She expressed her fear of how this will work, especially when school starts up...when/how often can we be together, how can she juggle everything, etc. I totally understand that - it's a **** sandwich.

We text every single night for hours when we aren't together. I have my kids Friday - Monday morning. She's been emotional the last couple days - I told her how much I love her and that it's so overwhelming I can't even express it - and she cried at that. Anyway, last night, I put the kids down at about 10, then texted her, as per usual. I could instantly tell she was upset. It turned very ugly. She started off saying how she doesn't know how this will work, she doesn't know if she can do it, it's too much, etc etc. I got worried and asked "are you having second thoughts?" It REALLY sounded like a build up to an "I don't think I can do this, so it's over" thing. She completely freaked out when I asked that. Got extremely angry. I apologized right away for misreading her, saying that was just some insecurity coming through, and that I love her and am just afraid of losing what we have. She got angrier and angrier...I am aware men try to "fix things", so at first I just offered to listen, support her, tell her I'm here whatever she needs, I understand how terrible her situation is and I will do whatever I can to make things better...that just angered her further.

So then I tried the "it'll all work out, this is temporary, a means to an end so we can start our life together". Angrier still. She went on and on about how it's all on her, she's tired of doing back flips for everyone, everything at her expense, she can't keep 2 sets of kids' "hearts protected" etc. I said I don't want to fight with her, I won't, "I love you". She got even madder and said "we're not fighting! I'm telling you how I feel!!". No matter what I said, or didn't say, it just made her more angry and she'd go off on another tangent - I really felt attacked. But I didn't get angry - I just tried to listen and understand, empathize and kept telling her I love her. Then she said I was just going to turn my phone off and go to bed (before i texted). I said that would've worried me - if she just went offline after we've been texting every night for so long...and that pissed her off. She said I was accusing her of doing something bad - I said not at all, I just would've worried something happened to you. Then she said she was pissed that I texted so late (it was the usual time) and that she should've just turned her phone off and gone to bed, and that "The kids should've been in bed earlier!!" and that my life is set in stone and she feels she's not allowed to text me during the day on weekends - which isn't true, but I also won't do it all day as I do need to focus on my kids. That also did piss me off a bit - I said "well, I'm sorry I put my kids to bed at 10". That really pissed her off even further. 

She then says "go to bed, I'm tired. Goodnight (heart emoji). I sent a heart emoji back, and she replied "thanks a lot". Yikes. I was truly at a total loss as to what to do or say...so I replied and tried to soften things again. She ended up saying she's "sick of kids, all of them" or something along those lines. Yikes again. And that "life changes for EVERYONE, not just ME" and it's unfair she has to do all of it herself. I asked several times, what is it I can change, that I'm able to change?" - genuinely asking what she feels I can do to balance it out...she didn't answer - because she knows there's nothing I can do. 

I understand what's she's up against...and she's sleep deprived...which makes people irrational. And I just couldn't seem to say anything that didn't flare things even worse - even though I really was trying my best, not getting angry...I honestly for the life of me don't know what to do.

Women - can you offer any insight? Any suggestions? What do I do? What do I not do? Are we doomed? Men of course as well, if you have any insight. I really love her, truly. But last night scared the **** out of me. I feel helpless/useless.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

In house seperation is crap. She's still with her "ex" and needs to move out, get a job and her own place before she's even remotely ready for any kind of relationship. 

She is hoping to jump from him to you to make the transition easier. 

Likely he does not know she is seeing other people. He will consider it an affair. 

Move on. Let her get herself established. If it's meant to be you will get back together when she is fully able


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> In house seperation is crap. She's still with her "ex" and needs to move out, get a job and her own place before she's even remotely ready for any kind of relationship.
> 
> She is hoping to jump from him to you to make the transition easier.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comment...however I'm just not willing to walk away from her, end this and hope that we'll get back together at some point.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

As a man who got pulled into a similar situation many years ago, have you actually witnessed any evidence that her description of her home life is accurate? What, exactly, was she "very ill" with that he provided no support for?

In my case, she told me very similar things and then went cold without divorcing. The intensity and suddenness of her attraction is flattering, as is her rapid investment in planning a future. I get it. However, it's also a major mental health red flag, something I wasn't aware of at that point in my life. She told me all the same things: he isn't there for her, he contributes nothing, he yells a lot, she's wanted out for years, she's going to come out a big winner in the divorce, etc. The sex was off-the-charts ridiculous.

However, it later turned out that her husband was a decent man, that she never actually retained a divorce attorney, and that our mutual friend who had unwittingly introduced us had been rolling her eyes, knowing her unstable friend was simply "doing this again". She bounced to a man she went to high school with within hours of going cold on me, then, a month later, broke her lease, quit her new job, and reconciled with her husband. They had children immediately, and she was later finally given a diagnosis (bipolar) and treatment. She tried to text me several times, despite her husband having told her we shouldn't talk. (Gee, why?)

The bottom line is that as intoxicated as you may be with her, she's a married woman on Tinder who is showing signs of a bad spiral and may be painting everything in the terms most favorable to herself, however far from reality that may be. If I were in your shoes, I'd tread lightly here and let her divorce shake out without getting caught in the blast radius. If you're not willing to take that advice, just be aware that no matter how important she's making you feel right now, she has a house, a husband, and two children. There is a very real possibility that this is all just a vacation for her and that you will not turn out to be a priority in the end.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

She was planning on spending the day with me today...she just texted and asked if I still want het to come over. I said of course.

She apologized about last night - said she was sleep deprived and annoyed and overwhelmed with everything. We agreed to not text about it but speak in person. She's coming over in an hour.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

So are you willing to be the other man, take her and her children in to support them when she tells her husband she is leaving him for another man, risk violence and him coming after you and hope he has to pay her enough support? 

Lifelong spousal support is rare these days. Depending where you live her adultery could be used against her in the divorce. 

He could put in the divorce that you not be around the children


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Time to put the brakes on and slow things way down. She's allowed to have low moments of falling apart during this time but the way she behaved with you is very telling. To me her behavior reeks of immature selfishness. She's old enough to know how to recognize when she's having a bad day and to not take it out on another especially one she claims to love. As an adult her behavior would send me running.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

a_mister said:


> As a man who got pulled into a similar situation many years ago, have you actually witnessed any evidence that her description of her home life is accurate? What, exactly, was she "very ill" with that he provided no support for?
> 
> In my case, she told me very similar things and then went cold without divorcing. The intensity and suddenness of her attraction is flattering, as is her rapid investment in planning a future. I get it. However, it's also a major mental health red flag, something I wasn't really aware of at that point in my life.
> 
> ...


She's bringing over some divorce papers for me to look at today, something she doesn't understand.

I've been at the house (when he and the kids were gone) and saw his bedroom, so I believe her on that. She has Lyme disease...found a specialist here (moved from Ontario and lived in the house for a year while stbx stayed out there). She's on some antibiotic regimen that has her feeling much better. The ex moved back here, she asked him not to. He's been back for a couple months. 

Good advice on treading lightly and avoiding the fallout from the divorce. I guess I just need to keep my eyes open and be cautious. I guess the trick is, how do I do that without pulling away, or abandoning her? 

Normally she's very even keeled and chill. She got stressed out one other time, same stuff. Other than that she's very positive and calm, rational.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Relationships that begin as an affair do not do well. 

At very least make sure she moves to her own place and gets a job before you allow her and her children to move in with you. 

Otherwise she is just using you as an escape plan


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So are you willing to be the other man, take her and her children in to support them when she tells her husband she is leaving him for another man, risk violence and him coming after you and hope he has to pay her enough support?
> 
> Lifelong spousal support is rare these days. Depending where you live her adultery could be used against her in the divorce.
> 
> He could put in the divorce that you not be around the children


She's legally separated. Here, you have to be separated for a year before you can sue for divorce. She was legally separated back in her home town, it's on record, and the lawyer knows about it. So I'm not the "other man". Regarding taking on her kids, we're not there - her daughter will finish out high school where she is, so we can't live together before then (I have to stay put for my kids - close to their mom). And she won't pull her daughter out of school. The son will be on his own in a year.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Relationships that begin as an affair do not do well.
> 
> At very least make sure she moves to her own place and gets a job before you allow her and her children to move in with you.
> 
> Otherwise she is just using you as an escape plan


It's not an affair if she's legally separated.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> She's legally separated. Here, you have to be separated for a year before you can sue for divorce. She was legally separated back in her home town, it's on record, and the lawyer knows about it. So I'm not the "other man". Regarding taking on her kids, we're not there - her daughter will finish out high school where she is, so we can't live together before then (I have to stay put for my kids - close to their mom). And she won't pull her daughter out of school. The son will be on his own in a year.


There is no filing for legal seperation in Canada. She'll have to prove living separate lives. With him fully supporting her and the household this will be difficult. She should have gotten a job in this time. 

It is an affair. He doesn't know she is filing for divorce. You are the other man until she has moved out and filed.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

First, there really is no such thing as filing for ‘legal separation’ in Canada. You are legally separated as soon as you and your spouse are ‘living separate and apart’. 

She is not living separate while being fully funded by him. The court will use that against her. 

Separate bedrooms does not = living separate. 

https://divorce-canada.ca/marriage-separation-in-canada


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> Good advice on treading lightly and avoiding the fallout from the divorce. I guess I just need to keep my eyes open and be cautious. I guess the trick is, how do I do that without pulling away, or abandoning her?


Your problems = your problems.

Her problems = her problems.

You can be a good listener, but don't get involved.



> Normally she's very even keeled and chill. She got stressed out one other time, same stuff. Other than that she's very positive and calm, rational.


Don't let me ruin your party, but how long has this been going on?

I only ask because people always put forward their best side of themselves at the start of a relationship. Two episodes could be two too many.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There is no filing for legal seperation in Canada. She'll have to prove living separate lives. With him fully supporting her and the household this will be difficult. She should have gotten a job in this time.
> 
> It is an affair. He doesn't know she is filing for divorce. You are the other man until she has moved out and filed.


He does know - she told him she's divorcing him. Her lawyer has accepted that's she's been separated for a year...I suppose he could contest that but I doubt he will. When she told him she wanted a divorce, he said "fine, you'll get your divorce, but you won't maintain this lifestyle".



**

To get a divorce in Canada requires that you and your spouse be separated for one year – something a lot of people call a legal separation, although this is not a legal term.

6 Common Legal Separation Myths in Canada

There are a number of commonly held beliefs about legal separation that simply are not true. Here are some of the more pervasive ones:

Myth #1. The first is that to be legally separated, you and your spouse must live in different homes. This is not true. The courts realize that often this is not financially feasible, and if you have children, it is in your and the children’s best interests to stay at the matrimonial home until custody and access arrangements have been worked out.

Myth #2. Another myth is that a temporary reconciliation ends a legal separation. This is not true. The Divorce Act’s policy is to make sure that couples try to work things out before a divorce is granted. Because of this, the Divorce Act allows couples to reconcile for a period or several periods totaling up to 90 days without affecting the one year separation period.

Myth #3. A third myth is that the exact date the legal separation started does not matter. This is not true. Obviously one full year of separation needs to pass before a divorce is granted. However, the date of separation is also important for other legal issues, such as the division of property. While this may not matter in some cases, in periods where assets values have changed dramatically in a short period of time, the exact date of separation can make a significant difference to how property is divided.

Myth #4. A fourth myth is that both parties need to agree to a legal separation. This is not true. If one spouse unilaterally decides to separate and takes action in that regard, the couple is separated, even if the other spouse does not want this.

Myth #5. A fifth myth is that there needs to be a separation agreement for the parties to be legally separated. This is not true. A separation agreement is a document that outlines all the rights and responsibilities of the spouses whose marriage is ended. Normally, it will need to be agreed upon before a divorce is granted. However, it is not necessary to sign a separation agreement, or any other document for that matter, for a couple to separate.

Myth #6. A sixth myth is that you must get a divorce if you are legally separated. The main thing a divorce does is allow you to remarry some time in the future if that is what you choose. Many people, for religious or other reasons, prefer not to take that final step, and it is not required. You and your spouse can stay legally separated for many years if that is what both of you choose.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You need to realize too that every single woman or man who is having an affair says their spouse is horrible, abusive, mean, there is no sex and it's been over for years they just haven't accepted it. 

There is nothing different or special about this affair than any other. You're part of the rule, not the exception. 

If she was really serious she would have filed BEFORE she went on tinder looking for a new man. 

She would be getting a job and finding a place to live. She would have been doing that before she went on tinder. 

Why no job yet? Why hasn't she told her husband she has filed? Why isn't the house up for sale yet?


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> First, there really is no such thing as filing for ‘legal separation’ in Canada. You are legally separated as soon as you and your spouse are ‘living separate and apart’.
> 
> She is not living separate while being fully funded by him. The court will use that against her.
> 
> Separate bedrooms does not = living separate.


Ok, but from that article:

"Lastly, being separated from your spouse does not always mean that you must be living at separate addresses. Being separated means that you and your spouse must be living separate lives. From the courts perspective living at separate address is the easiest way to prove this. In the event that separate addresses are not possible (due to finances, children, etc.) you may reside at the same address as your spouse, and still be separated. In this type of situation the court will require that the couple prove that while they were dwelling at the same address they no longer lived as a couple. This can be complicated and usually requires legal representation."


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

It's also on record (from his employment record) that he lived in a different province for nearly a year. I would think (hope) that her lawyer wouldn't have bothered drawing up the papers if she thought they weren't separated for at least a year.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, can be complicated. He supports her. Even if they have meals together is grounds to say they were not separated. Any events they attend together. 

She's not done anything to separate herself from him. No job, no looking for places, no trying to put the house on the market. 

The husband may be on board now but once he realizes she's with another man it can become a nightmare. He can use all these as proof they were not separated. 

Let her deal with her crap first and see if you can return to the relationship once she's settled and has her feet on the ground.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

It takes a lot of time to truly get to know someone. Of course I'm speaking through my own experiences but this should always be the number one thing to keep in mind when entering a new relationship, especially when children are involved. You have to make sure your seeing what's really in front of you and not what you think is there.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

I guess we just have different definitions of an "affair". She moved to a different province...and yes, he eventually followed, after many months. Her lawyer has told her she's eligible to file as they've been separated for more than a year, according to the guidelines in Canada.

I was cheated on...that's why I divorced. We certainly were not separated at that time. I had no idea. I was blindsided by the whole thing. I do not see this as the same thing.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> It's also on record (from his employment record) that he lived in a different province for nearly a year. I would think (hope) that her lawyer wouldn't have bothered drawing up the papers if she thought they weren't separated for at least a year.


For work to support his wife and family doesn't count. I'm guessing he was in my province, Alberta. 

Tons of women cheat on their oil worker husbands. Him being gone for work does not get considered in court. I've known a couple of men who went through it. They leave for work, wife cheats and tries to claim abandonment. Nope, not when he's working to support his family. 

Her lawyer can draw up the papers all she wants. He has to agree they've been separated a year once he gets them. 

She doesn't respond well to stress and pressure. She's about to get hit with 100x of it. She can not maintain a relationship during this time.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> I guess we just have different definitions of an "affair". She moved to a different province...and yes, he eventually followed, after many months. Her lawyer has told her she's eligible to file as they've been separated for more than a year, according to the guidelines in Canada
> 
> I was cheated on...that's why I divorced. We certainly were not separated at that time. I had no idea. I was blindsided by the whole thing. I do not see this as the same thing.


Do you think your wife told her other man you would be blindsided? She probably told him all the things your gf told you about her husband. 

You do not know how much her husband even knows about the seperation. They will always tell you one thing and tell the husband something else. 

Maybe hear from the husband himself that he knows the marriage is over and they are separated and waiting to file for divorce. 

He is very likely in the same boat you were in.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, can be complicated. He supports her. Even if they have meals together is grounds to say they were not separated. Any events they attend together.
> 
> She's not done anything to separate herself from him. No job, no looking for places, no trying to put the house on the market.
> 
> ...


She and the kids eat together, he's never present. No events together - they text each other in the house to arrange whatever needs to be done. But, I get what you're saying. If he decides to contest that, it could be an issue. The kids can attest to the separate lives thing - apparently that's all they've known for 5 years. 

I realize I'm taking a gamble here. She can't move in with me anytime soon or anything - she has to be South and I have to be north, at least for a couple years. So I guess I just wait to see what happens with the divorce and the house...see what she does. I'm not legally tied to her in any way...I guess my biggest worry is that my kids really like her, and if this goes sideways, that will be hard on them. Me? I'm pretty tempered. After my cheating wife, and subsequent divorce, I have a wall up - even though I've let her in. I thought about it last night - if I see more of this behaviour like last night, I'll need to reconsider my position. I would definitely be sad if it ended, but I'll be OK.

I appreciate all the advice, and yes, there are problems. I've been dead inside for 5 years...and now I'm taking this gamble. Perhaps I'll lose. All I can do is stay cautious and keep my eyes open.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> For work to support his wife and family doesn't count. I'm guessing he was in my province, Alberta.
> 
> Tons of women cheat on their oil worker husbands. Him being gone for work does not get considered in court. I've known a couple of men who went through it. They leave for work, wife cheats and tries to claim abandonment. Nope, not when he's working to support his family.
> 
> ...


She came to Alberta, he stayed in ON.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Do you think your wife told her other man you would be blindsided? She probably told him all the things your gf told you about her husband.
> 
> You do not know how much her husband even knows about the seperation. They will always tell you one thing and tell the husband something else.
> 
> ...


Well, we'll see what happens when he's served. You're right, he could contest the year thing. If that happens, I'll have to see what's best. Hopefully he just accepts it...seeing what his reaction is will be a very defining event.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> She and the kids eat together, he's never present. No events together - they text each other in the house to arrange whatever needs to be done. But, I get what you're saying. If he decides to contest that, it could be an issue. The kids can attest to the separate lives thing - apparently that's all they've known for 5 years.


Her problem is her problem.

I'm serious. If you really want to pursue this, for your own sanity, you can't be involved because it doesn't involve you. In my view, you need a healthy boundary in which it's simply her responsibility to get this done and over with, and a healthy skepticism as to why it wasn't getting done before you showed up. The "issues" in the divorce don't matter for you. It's her job to get her life straight.



> I would definitely be sad if it ended, but I'll be OK.


That's good to hear and something to remind yourself of.

Be aware that if he "sometimes" verbally abuse her, it's always possible that he's simply yelling in frustration that he's married to an ungrateful adulteress who cries abandonment because he's busting his ass and making the sacrifices to feed their kids. Large numbers of men fall into this trap and are surprised when they find out their dutiful wives started finding sex and affection elsewhere. The world is full of soldiers who come home from 9-month deployments to find out their wives are 8 months pregnant.

Be aware that lawyers are more than happy to take your money. Being "eligible to file" doesn't mean "she's right".

I'm still curious how long you've known her.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Think about it this way, she would not be concerned about his reaction if they have been mutually separated for a year. 

The fact that she did nothing to divorce and start being independent before you arrived is a big red flag. 

You've been cheated on before. A woman who starts a new relationship before getting out of her last one someone you should be very careful about. 

At very least you'll need to have some space while she deals with things on her end. It's a huge change and stress for everyone involved. It's not a good time to be building a relationship.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

a_mister said:


> Her problem is her problem.
> 
> I'm serious. If you really want to pursue this, for your own sanity, you can't be involved because it doesn't involve you. In my view, you need a healthy boundary in which it's simply her responsibility to get this done and over with, and a healthy skepticism as to why it wasn't getting done before you showed up. The "issues" in the divorce don't matter for you. It's her job to get her life straight.
> 
> ...


Do you mean in regards to talking to her about it (the not being involved), or that I shouldn't be seeing her at all? And you think she's lying to me, that they aren't actually separated and this poor bastard is just thinking everything is fine? ****, that would be brutal. Again, I think him being served, and how he reacts will tell me more.

2 months. I know, I know. I'm crazy.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Think about it this way, she would not be concerned about his reaction if they have been mutually separated for a year.
> 
> The fact that she did nothing to divorce and start being independent before you arrived is a big red flag.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. Once school starts, we just won't be able to see that much of each other. I've been off a fair bit this summer, so we had a fair bit of time together. Perhaps the forced distance will be good. I'll tell you this - if there's another meltdown like that...I won't stand for that. That might be it for me.I'll give her a pass because of the stress she's under and the lack of sleep...but if that's how she generally deals, I can't do it. And I'll tell her exactly that.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> Do you mean in regards to talking to her about it (the not being involved), or that I shouldn't be seeing her at all?


Like I said, it's one thing to be a good listener. However, divorce is one of the most stressful life events there is, and you don't need to put yourself through it with her. Worrying about all the possible outcomes won't change them. This is her job, and she hired an attorney to help her. Don't get dragged into the emotional component.



> And you think she's lying to me, that they aren't actually separated and this poor bastard is just thinking everything is fine? ****, that would be brutal. Again, I think him being served, and how he reacts will tell me more.


You will never see his reaction. You'll only hear her version of it, which may be about as reliable as having some explain it to you through interpretive dance.



> 2 months. I know, I know. I'm crazy.


It's OK, I expected as much.

Showing you two angry meltdowns in two months when you aren't even living together is not a superb track record.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It is more likely that she is lying about her husband's knowledge of the seperation and about his bad behaviour than her telling the truth about it. 

It is pretty much exactly what every cheater says about their spouse. What your ex wife likely said about you. 

He probably doesn't think things are perfect but he doesn't know she is seeing another man and filing for divorce or that she's considered them legally separated for a year. 

He will be blindsided. He will be in pain. He will feel like you did when you found your wife cheating. 

For her it's an exit affair. She doesn't want to be alone and can't support herself so she needed to find a new man before she could leave her last one.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

I thought about it last night - that maybe it's over. Is she crazy? Or is this just a situational meltdown? If this dies, I'll be fine. It will suck, because this is the first time I've been able to open myself. And if I get burned...I don't know I'll ever be capable of letting someone in again. I never thought I could - I've been dead inside. I'm not sure why I let this happen - I just haven't had feelings like this before. I don't know if I'll ever be able to let anyone in again. I'll be OK, but probably alone forever if this doesn't work. Alone by choice.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

a_mister said:


> Like I said, it's one thing to be a good listener. However, divorce is one of the most stressful life events there is, and you don't need to put yourself through it with her. Worrying about all the possible outcomes won't change them. This is her job, and she hired an attorney to help her. Don't get dragged into the emotional component.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sigh...I know. And LOL at the interpretive dance.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It is more likely that she is lying about her husband's knowledge of the seperation and about his bad behaviour than her telling the truth about it.
> 
> It is pretty much exactly what every cheater says about their spouse. What your ex wife likely said about you.
> 
> ...


We'll see...if he accepts and allows the divorce to proceed uncontested, that's one thing. If not, that tells me something different.

Once the divorce goes through, or the separation agreement is signed, she'll end up with a net worth far greater than mine.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Don't think that way. I have been there too. I was with someone who seemed perfect. His ex and him still lived together but she was crazy and would cut herself. He was scared to leave his kids with her. He couldn't afford to leave. He told her he was leaving and she threatened to kill herself. 
Ya, all lies. All. I talked to her myself. She is lovely and had no idea they were "separated" It floored me and I thought I'd never again put myself through another relationship. 

and I forced myself to get back out again. And that guy didn't work. Forced myself again. 

Eventually I met an amazing man. I love him endlessly. If it were to not work I would once again pick myself up and keep going. 

I've felt dead inside. Like I wanted to just be single forever and never risk being vulnerable again. 
Be happy single but open to love. It's worth it.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

Fortunately I'm not legally tied to her. The idea they're not actually separated and I'm the "other man" really bothers me. I'm choosing to trust her on that...and if he accepts the divorce, then I'll be satisfied that's the case. If not, I'll reevaluate. 

Moving in together can't happen anytime soon, and that's good. The next few weeks should be very telling. Does he sign the separation agreement and the divorce papers? Or does he say hell no, what are you talking about? Does she have another meltdown and take it out on me? If yes, I tell her I won't accept that behaviour, and maybe we should take a break, or be done. I will not tolerate that treatment. 

She's on her way right now...she's probably going to read me like an open book, as she always does. You guys have me pretty worried.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> We'll see...if he accepts and allows the divorce to proceed uncontested, that's one thing. If not, that tells me something different.
> 
> Once the divorce goes through, or the separation agreement is signed, she'll end up with a net worth far greater than mine.


If they can sell the house and if she gets spouse support. 
Ontario house market isn't so great right now I hear. And spouse support is getting less and less these days. They will expect her to work. 

She can't rely on funds from the divorce. It may be a long time before she is actually independent. 

Even with lifelong spouse support and child support for 2 of her children and half equity of the home my Mother took a long, long time to be able to fully support herself after being a sahm for over a decade. The house sale put a down payment on a much smaller home and the payments she got were not enough to live off. My father made very good money btw.


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Don't think that way. I have been there too. I was with someone who seemed perfect. His ex and him still lived together but she was crazy and would cut herself. He was scared to leave his kids with her. He couldn't afford to leave. He told her he was leaving and she threatened to kill herself.
> Ya, all lies. All. I talked to her myself. She is lovely and had no idea they were "separated" It floored me and I thought I'd never again put myself through another relationship.
> 
> and I forced myself to get back out again. And that guy didn't work. Forced myself again.
> ...


I admire your tenacity! So are you just speculating she _could_ be lying about the separation, or you really think she is? It was the first thing she told me when we started texting. "I'm in a living separation". Do I just assume she's a bald faced liar?


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## Crossfire-Confusion (Sep 4, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If they can sell the house and if she gets spouse support.
> Ontario house market isn't so great right now I hear. And spouse support is getting less and less these days. They will expect her to work.
> 
> She can't rely on funds from the divorce. It may be a long time before she is actually independent.
> ...


This is in Alberta...housing is better than a couple years ago...but yes, that depends on the sale. They've got approx $1.25M equity in it. There's a calculator for Alberta spousal/child support...the lawyer crunched the numbers, and the time of marriage (19 years) is a significant factor. She has documented records of all her doctor's visits, etc, and his behaviour in those appointments - which her lawyer says will absolutely come into play for support. We'll see.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> I admire your tenacity! So are you just speculating she _could_ be lying about the separation, or you really think she is? It was the first thing she told me when we started texting. "I'm in a living separation". Do I just assume she's a bald faced liar?


I think she is saying all the exact things every woman in an affair says. She didn't file for divorce before she met you. She's worried about how he will react to her filing. She's been letting him support her without making any effort to become independent or detached from him. 

Im sure in her mind it is a living separation. In his mind could be a lot different. 

Unless he was aware they were in a separation agreement, they aren't separated. And if she is concerned about his reaction it tells me he does not know they are separated. 

Bold faced liar... mmm more like just the typical cheater script.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Sounds to me that you are not ready to commit to anyone so you chose someone that is not able to commit to you. 

Too much drama here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm in Alberta. It's not great here, not the $1mill + homes. They end up sitting a long time. She'll need a plan for herself until the sale goes through. 

My Mother had cancer when my Dad left her for another woman. Active cancer, just out of hospital. This was also in Alberta, it doesn't change a thing. 

Divorce court doesn't care about the emotional part. It's just numbers. They don't care if he was grumpy or non-caring at her dr appointments. 

She should be expecting a big fight on her hands. A lot of stress. A lot of time in court.


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## JustAFamilyMan (Aug 27, 2015)

Crossfire-Confusion said:


> I admire your tenacity! So are you just speculating she _could_ be lying about the separation, or you really think she is? It was the first thing she told me when we started texting. "I'm in a living separation". Do I just assume she's a bald faced liar?


Yes. You assume she's a bald faced liar. 

- You haven't met her kids even in passing, she's met yours. So, there isn't a "it's not time to meet children" boundary. Just a "you can't meet mine" boundary. Most likely explanation is it's because they'd tell daddy.
- She's "living together but separated". By far the most common adulterers lie. It gives them all the cover they need for why you can't just do Netflix and chill at their place, and a way to inexplicably add tension or issues to ramp things up and down depending on how vulnerable they feel about being caught.
- Emotionally erratic. Even serial cheaters deal with bouts of guilt and self-loathing and look for excuses about how to end it. Especially ways to end it which put the other party into their own "stay still and shut up" mode so the spouse they've been cheating on doesn't get some surprise information.
- The most common reason a married couple uses two bedrooms is that they're unhappy together and have started living separate awake/sleep cycles, not that they're only still married by the letter of the law only and share a house for financial/children's logistic reasons. 
- Long windows of "future events" which provide some new progress for your relationship. Adulterers love to have these longer term milestones that can be reached so they can maintain the status quo that's making them feel so good for as long as possible before having to potentially end the affair. It's a stalling tactic. Want to know what someone does who is actually separated and falls in love? They take immediate and substantive steps to be with that person they've met.
- The husband is portrayed as a brute, maybe a little scary/dangerous so "don't shake her apple cart or who knows what would happen". Textbook story, the rewriting of the relationship to outsiders to make her seem the vulnerable victim.

Nothing about this reads as a woman actually separated with a husband fully aware of what's going on. Express how you feel about her, that's fair and we are human, but then let her know you're excited about the day when you can act on that again. That day being the day when she's officially divorced and living by herself. I have a feeling by then you'll have turned into just another disappointing enemy in her life because you refused to play along with whatever this is.


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