# Email/Facebook/Privacy/Openness -- please help



## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

I intend to open a conversation with my husband about our online boundaries, and I need help.

My husband and I married 2 months ago. He found me last year via a mutual friend on Facebook. He friended me, sent me a flattering, long message as an overture, and started wooing me online by leaving clever, funny comments on just about all my posts.

We started dating in February of this year. He asked me to marry him in March. In September, we were married.

I adore my husband, and I'm pretty sure he adores me. We both have pasts -- I'm 37 and he's 35 -- but this is the first marriage for both of us and I know that we both intend to make it last and stay together until we die.

HOWEVER,

I am riven by insecurity, for any number of reasons that I don't want to go into here.

I have a few questions:

1) What is the normal level of privacy/openness regarding online communications? My husband and I have never had a talk about this. I've recently concluded that, for my own happiness, I want us to be completely open with each other. I have a smartphone that I leave out. I know he looks at it, which means he has full access to my Facebook, Gmail, texts, etc .

My husband tends to be a very private person. He used to leave himself logged into Gmail/Facebook on his laptop, but now he carefully signs out after he is done using it.

I want us to have full access to each others' info -- Facebook accounts, email, etc. Is this normal/healthy? I just feel it is the best way to make sure neither of us is sneaking around behind the other's back, and making sure nothing is developing that could harm our marriage.

2) What is the best way to bring this up? How can I tell my husband that this is the level of openness I want?

Thank you for your help and advice!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you are doing the right thing

having an open and honest conversation about boundaries and transparency is an excellent way to start a marriage

it would help to explain how you view privacy and secrecy as two separate things and that by remaining transparent you help develop trust and bond better and become more intimate as a result.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I wish I had done this! 

AR is right, just have the conversation. There should be no need for privacy or secrecy in a marriage...


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks to you both. I am just worried about having the conversation, hoping it isn't too difficult.

I trust my husband, but I am wary of a couple things. The chief thing I am wary of is that one of his best friends is an ex-girlfriend. My husband is not a very social person, and has few friends, so I am reluctant to ask him to close down contact completely. However, I would be very upset if he shared more of his inner life with her than he does with me. I feel I have a right to know what they say to each other over email.

Thoughts?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I wish I had done this!
> 
> AR is right, just have the conversation. There should be no need for privacy or secrecy in a marriage...


privacy is fine, secrecy isn't

we all need private moments/thoughts, but if it's something you're hiding because you know it crosses boundaries or has the appearance of it then it's secrecy


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

xtal said:


> Thanks to you both. I am just worried about having the conversation, hoping it isn't too difficult.
> 
> I trust my husband, but I am wary of a couple things. The chief thing I am wary of is that one of his best friends is an ex-girlfriend. My husband is not a very social person, and has few friends, so I am reluctant to ask him to close down contact completely. However, I would be very upset if he shared more of his inner life with her than he does with me. I feel I have a right to know what they say to each other over email.
> 
> Thoughts?


Has this relationship always bothered you? I ask because I'm thinking of how your approach on this is going to look to him. During the dating and engagement phase, did you have a problem with his online/email/facebook activity and communications?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

xtal said:


> Thanks to you both. I am just worried about having the conversation, hoping it isn't too difficult.
> 
> I trust my husband, but I am wary of a couple things. The chief thing I am wary of is that one of his best friends is an ex-girlfriend. My husband is not a very social person, and has few friends, so I am reluctant to ask him to close down contact completely. However, I would be very upset if he shared more of his inner life with her than he does with me. * I feel I have a right to know what they say to each other over email.*
> 
> Thoughts?



I agree

he should never discuss your marriage with her and keep conversations from being flirty or sexual
also discuss with what you feel is appropriate behavior as far as going out alone or having her over the house without you etc.


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

> Has this relationship always bothered you? I ask because I'm thinking of how your approach on this is going to look to him. During the dating and engagement phase, did you have a problem with his online/email/facebook activity and communications?


Good questions. The dating/engagement phase was very brief, and so I'm not sure how to answer your question. While he was wooing me, his online affections were very much directed toward me; it didn't even occur to me to question how he might be interacting in his private time toward other people.

Once he had "won" me, he became less attentive toward me online. This is fine -- we live together and see each other every day; I don't expect him to comment on my every little post the way he did in the past (although it would be nice!).

I guess I'm worried about him revving up the charm machine and using it on some other person. (Although it seems really silly, now that I'm typing this and seeing my own words in front of me!) Like, if he's no longer focussing his wit and charm upon me, is he going to move on to try to charm somebody else?

(I know I should be more trusting of my husband, but I just have some insecurity issues).

The second problem in my mind, is his ex. I had to ask him to stop spending any time with her one-on-one, as ever since he and I got the wedding in gear, and then got married, she has been extremely weepy around him, breaking out into tears every time they are together. I told him in a humorous way "men are suckers for weepy, vulnerable girls -- ask me how I know". He took it well, and agreed not to spend any time alone with her. But I am just worried about how they are communicating with each other online. They were together for five years. They split up the month before he started pursuing me. I didn't know that last bit until he and I were just about to get married. I'm a bit uncomfortable about their friendship.

Part of me thinks it's just ordinary human jealousness and insecurity, but I'd like to be able to keep an eye on how their friendship is going, and also, I'd like to know if he is being more open than her than he is with me. Part of me thinks he might be... they leaned on each other for five years, and stayed close even after they split up. In some ways it would be natural for him to be more open and close with her, but it is my very strong opinion that he should be pruning that particular vine, and turning to me (and not her) for emotional support.

Of course, I don't even know if any of this is the case, but, I'd to be able to keep an eye on things.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

xtal said:


> but it is my very strong opinion that he should be pruning that particular vine, and turning to me (and not her) for emotional support.



you sound incredibly wise and this sort of stuff needs to be communicated to him and made crystal clear


let me ask you, what will you do if he denies you transparency are you willing to start using spy tech?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Do you feel like a rebound?

I could see how his relationship with her could be an issue, but honestly under the circumstances, things went fairly quickly with you. It's hard to imagine that his relationship with her of 5 years was... well completely done and over for them both. Her behavior seems to suggest it wasn't. Maybe he feels like he owes her something... she after all didn't end up being 'the one' for him.

If this is the case with him, I would say that his relationship with her isn't healthy for either of you. She can't have closure, you stay suspicicious, and he's in the middle of two women he cares for... one his wife and one he spent 5 years of ups and downs with.

I think you need to talk to him about your fears regarding his ex. After all, this is the crux of the problem you're having right now, not necessarily ALL his communications online. Be honest, it's about HER and what you feel about their relationship. IMO I wouldn't feel it is appropriate... if they were such good friends then maybe they should have gotten married. That's not the choice he made, he chose YOU.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> privacy is fine, secrecy isn't
> 
> we all need private moments/thoughts, but if it's something you're hiding because you know it crosses boundaries or has the appearance of it then it's secrecy


But how do you differentiate between the two? I suppose I'm defining privacy as closing the bathroom door when you go for a pee. Secrecy to me, would be bringing your cell into the bathroom to text or something...

So privacy = alone time, maybe? I can live with that. 

Secrecy? I can't live with that...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> But how do you differentiate between the two? I suppose I'm defining privacy as closing the bathroom door when you go for a pee. Secrecy to me, would be bringing your cell into the bathroom to text or something...
> 
> So privacy = alone time, maybe? I can live with that.
> 
> Secrecy? I can't live with that...


yup you've got it

other reasons for privacy-

planning a surprise party or xmas shopping

in the process of creating art and wish to keep it to yourself until it's done

that sort of stuff

but deleting texts because you're afraid of what your wife would do if she saw them, well that's secrecy


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> let me ask you, what will you do if he denies you transparency are you willing to start using spy tech?


Yep. Reluctantly, and only as a last resort, but definitely yes.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well I hope it doesn't come to that but I am glad you aren't afraid of finding the truth


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I wouldn't be comfortable with the ex-gf best friend at all. Do keep your eye on that, and he absolutely MUST fade out from this woman, especially with her weepiness and such.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's never come up in my marriage, but if my husband wanted my online password for facebook or email, then I'd give it to him (which is funny cause my password is about him...  ) 

He doesn't do anything but email...and I don't bother to ask for the password. He doesn't do internet social forums or anything like that. He never even had a Myspace lollll

We do have each others bank numbers and pins...The online stuff just isn't a problem for us.


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## CalifGuy (Nov 2, 2011)

My DW and I both have complete access to each other's accounts and when I try to hide something (like posting in this forum), it never takes long before I am "busted." But, I am and always have been an open book with my wife and confessed about each and every skeleton in my closet to her before we got engaged yet she didn't run for the hills, so she went in with full disclosure (which she may kick herself for now but she was forewarned!). lol 
There are times we may get annoyed with each other over Facebook but it is never anything very serious as we make it crystal clear that we are married and even have photos of us as a couple as our profile photos (not the same photo but photos of both of us together).


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I think you need to talk to him about your fears regarding his ex. After all, this is the crux of the problem you're having right now, not necessarily ALL his communications online. Be honest, it's about HER and what you feel about their relationship. IMO I wouldn't feel it is appropriate... if they were such good friends then maybe they should have gotten married. That's not the choice he made, he chose YOU.


Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Yes, I think you are correct. 

I still believe he and I should have a larger conversation about online privacy, but yes, the more pressing issue is his relationship with his ex-girlfriend.

I'm going to open a conversation with him tonight when I get home from work. I'm not looking forward to it, but the situation is making me very unhappy.

Thank you all for your kind help.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

xtal said:


> Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Yes, I think you are correct.
> 
> I still believe he and I should have a larger conversation about online privacy, but yes, the more pressing issue is his relationship with his ex-girlfriend.
> 
> ...


Did you ever have an in depth conversation about his ex? Do you have the details of the break up, etc. Other things from his past? My husband didn't want to discuss his past when we first got together...and I didnt' force the issue. In retrospect, I kind of wish I had. I feel that there's so much I dont know. So much secrecy and I hate it.


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Did you ever have an in depth conversation about his ex? Do you have the details of the break up, etc. Other things from his past? My husband didn't want to discuss his past when we first got together...and I didnt' force the issue. In retrospect, I kind of wish I had. I feel that there's so much I dont know. So much secrecy and I hate it.


We've had a few conversations, but he doesn't talk about her much. He is very close-mouthed about some things.

I don't know why, but it seems like secrecy/privacy is much more of a value for most men than it is for most women.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

xtal said:


> We've had a few conversations, but he doesn't talk about her much. He is very close-mouthed about some things.
> 
> I don't know why, but it seems like secrecy/privacy is much more of a value for most men than it is for most women.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It's like they don't want to hurt us...think it's best if we don't know. I'd rather know the truth than make one up in my head...


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*I feel I have a right to know what they say to each other over email.*

Well, you do have the right to ask.... but as an adult, he has the right to decide whether or not to tell you, or to give you his password. It sounds like you want his password so you can "check up on him" by browsing through his email whenever you want. That's kind of creepy. Like stalker-ish. 

Sad that you have trust issues already. If you are lucky he will happily give you his password, and that will be the end of it. BUT, even if he doesn't just hand it over, it doesn't mean something is up. You make it sound like he is a private kind of guy, so just opening up wide may be too much for him, might make him defensive.....and not because he has something to hide. Know what I mean??? 

Communication, communication, communication..... THAT builds trust. If my spouse didn't trust me, I'd think something was up with him for projecting his lack of trust on me!  Good Luck!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Total transparency , in my opinion, is protective. 

A good thread on this issue : 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

On the flip side.... is lack of trust ruining your marriage? Having to check up on your spouse....


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## arekayone (Aug 6, 2011)

I was struck by the subject of your post....I have a bit of recent experience with this.

My wife and I have been married 25 years. We have three children, and, what I thought was a fairly content and fun life together. We have many friends, we are very social and have a successful business.

Early this year, I noticed my wife had friended on Facebook a bunch of people that I had never heard of. I asked her about it, she said they were high school friends. I have NEVER had a reason to distrust my wife, so I didn't think twice....until.....I noticed one guy kept making posts on her wall, and she was doing the same on his. This was very out of character for her. I asked her about it again, and evidently my eldest son (21 yo) had done the same. He later told me something felt "weird" about it. Soon after this, I walked in the kitchen one day and she was on her cell with someone. We have been together a long time, and I can tell who she is talking to within a few minutes of listening to her conversations. This one seemed odd, and I hovered over her until she got off the phone. Yes, it was this guy from high school. I told her I was uncomfortable with this, and she said she understood and she was just catching up with an old friend.

Over the next few months I noticed that my wife's personality, behaviour, and general demeanor had changed. In the back of my mind I suspected something was amiss. 

About five months after this whole thing started, I was sitting at the kitchen table with her on a Sunday morning having breakfast and her cell rang. She had a very odd, 30 second conversation and got off. I asked who it was, she said it was someone she was working on a project with. I knew she was lying. When I was finally able to get her cell away, I found she had deleted the call.....I confronted her.

She told me she had been feeling like she never loved me, that she got married too young, that she never got to live on her own, etc. She admitted she had been talking to this guy on the phone multiple times a day for a few months. She told me she was considering leaving me. I was devastated.

I won't go through the entire drama of the next few months, but I will summarize it by saying it involved me installing spy software on her computer, finding secret email accounts, disconcerting chats, a great deal of soul-searching, counseling and healing. I am 99% certain she did not have a physical affair with this guy as we live hundreds of miles apart, and she was never gone for any appreciable amount of time. This blew up four months ago, and I still have moments when I wonder what the heck she was talking to this guy about (she said he was giving her advice on her marriage). I go into funks where I feel like my best friend stabbed me in the back, and it is very difficult to deal with. We have managed to repair our marriage, and have had some truly wonderful times together, but this is always out there.

It turns out this guy was a boyfriend she broke up with after her sr. year of high school. He kept going to her parents house after that, to the point that they threatened to call the police. Her friends warned her that he was trying to find her on Facebook, and that she should avoid him. The guy is a complete weirdo musician that also goes around channeling Jesus and healing people on the streets....he videotapes it and posts it on youtube. I found out he had written songs to her and found them on her ipod. Its horrible.

FACEBOOK IS EVIL AND IT HAS NO PLACE IN A MARRIED RELATIONSHIP!!! 80% of troubled marriages cite it as a reason for the unrest. One in five divorces cite it as the primary reason for the divorce. It is perfectly within your rights to tell your husband that you either get his passwords or you get off facebook. My wife knows I monitor her computer now and it is a terrible feeling of mistrust. Do whatever you can to nip this in the bud before it becomes an issue.

I came on this forum tonight because I was having one of my "blue" moments. It just pops into my mind every now and then. Writing about it is therapeutic.

Good luck and God bless.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

It is not Facebook, it is the person using it..

Curiosity sometimes gets the best of us and before we know it we get in over our heads.

It is like guns don't kill people, people kill people.

My husband has all my passwords to everything, email accts, FB accts everything. I also have all of his.

I would be really uncomfortable is my husband were best friends with one of his ex's. He would feel the same way.


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## xtal (Nov 16, 2011)

UPDATE:

I asked my husband last night about his ex. He said he hadn't seen her since two weeks ago (when he and I went to her boyfriends apartment to watch a movie with the two of them). He said they hadn't talked on the phone, either. 

He said this was "kind of sad." Then he jokingly said, "you don't want me to have any friends!" I told him I want him to have *lots* of friends, I just don't want him to be super-close to his ex girlfriend.

I mentioned that I had seen over his shoulder that he got an email from her. He immediately said, "would you like to see it"? Not in an accusing way, just very matter-of-fact. I immediately felt bad, because I realized there was nothing untoward going on.

I read the email and it was just general chit-chat. Nothing to be worried about.

So, that's that. I feel kind of bad now about my paranoia and insecurity, but I also feel greatly assured.

QUESTION:

Should I feel bad that my husband is sad about losing his friend? I'd rather just let the whole thing recede into the past so we can all move on. Am I being too possessive or too demanding?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Should I feel bad that my husband is sad about losing his friend? I'd rather just let the whole thing recede into the past so we can all move on. Am *I being too possessive or too demanding*?


Nope.

She represents a part of his life that is past. I'm one of those people who feel like an ex is and ex. They have their place, and now you have yours. He has friends. He won't die if this one fades into the sunset. It should... mainly because you know for a fact that SHE can't handle it and neither can you on certain levels. He should know better... do the right thing and respect his wife's opinion on the matter.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think it is true that ex-lovers can never be friends if they are married to someone else. There is too much history and too many temptations.

In addition, if something makes you uncomfortable you have the right to ask it not be done. If you feel uncomfortable with him keeping this friendship then he should respect you and love you enough to choose to end his contact with this woman.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

My H had a 'friend' he wanted to meet for dinner - invited me along (that's good). But she was being difficult about the dates I suggested, and example, he said to me that "next Tues wasn't good for G"...I just looked at him and asked him point blank, which one of us are you more worried about pi$$ing off? He got the point. While I didnt' make a federal case out of this particular incident, I did tell him that there would be no dinner dates out with this woman, and that if they wanted to maintain a friendship, that she could come over to our house for dinner. Never heard from her again.

Don't assume that this woman's intentions are honorable - and never let another woman influence your husband or any decisions he makes...he doesn't need 'friends' like that.


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

xtal,

I agree with those who said you are within your rights to snoop and especially to tell you husband to end things with the ex. My wife and I share all of our passwords to everything. I am actually troubled by his "kinda sad" and "you don't want me to have any friends" comments. I have found that you can't just assume that your SO is going to have the same boundaries that you do. Sorry but it's true. People will do things, and say they are "only being nice" or "only being a friend", and justify all kinds of nonsense in their minds. After all, it was never discussed right?! Don't feel bad about making him give up the being friends with the ex, he should have done that on his own imo!


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## BelieveNLove (Jan 21, 2012)

I happened upon this thread by accident, and though it is a couple of months old, I feel called to reply. Your husband IMO spends too much time with his ex-gf. You are right about the tears, which btw, are probably about the unfulfilled dream of marrying him herself. You say you went to her place for an evening's entertainment. Consider making some new couple friends. Please read the book, _Not Just Friends_. In this book, it is explained that old flames burn hot. You'll alos note that hiding a cell phone, deleting texts, closing screens on computer, or closing a laptop when one's spouse appears are signs of cheating. Secrecy is not okay. Privacy is closing the bathroom door. Secrecy is doing something you wouldn't if your spouse was looking over your shoulder. It's good that he showed you his email, but be careful, after all, you were unaware that he was just out of a relationship and not really healed from it; yet , he proposed to you. If he was done with the ex, then why not leave her in the rear view mirror? When he showed his email to you, he knew it was safe. Why does he feel the need to be so careful about logging out the rest of the time? I suspect there is something he wants to keep a secret from you. Transparency is key to a marriage. BTW, I married someone quickly, he too later told me he had a gf just a month earlier. She too returned teary-eyed. Mine went no contact. Years later though, I noticed the sneaky laptop stuff, and sure enough, he was keeping a dual life a secret, with on-line dating. Keep your eyes open.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It is good to be trusting but not too trusting.
That is, if you are married to someone who is not 100% trustworthy, trusting might come at a cost. If he has access to your email and FB, then you need to make your correspondents aware of this. That way, if 'you' send them something that doesn't 'seem like you', they can question you about it in person or by speaking to you on the phone. 
Here is a sort of funny example. My H was using email to mess around with his ex, and also correspond with a few different ladies in our community. They became aware that I had access to his email, because of transparency. They were so deluded by what they were doing, that when he emailed them not to contact him any more, they insisted that I had done it! 

There are good reasons why you would want to have complete control over your passwords in a marriage. I think it is good to have a shared email for your shared friends. But I see email and online presence as an extension of your own voice and being, and to give someone else complete control over that, in a time of crisis, you will have much less voice. 

You haven't been married very long and he has not returned the trust by allowing you access in return. So I would say that in this case you need to accept that it's normal not to trust someone so soon in a relationship that has moved along so quickly.


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