# Just busted her



## hawx20

Just found out my wife has been cheating on me for the past year....I'm numb and have no clue what to do....my god....somebody help me with advice


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## movin on

Did u confront her yet ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Differentguy

I am so sorry hawx. Please don't do anything drastic yet. Does she know you know? It has been very recent for me and the pain is still overwhelming. Just know there are people here for you.


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## tainted

Go dark on her and take this time to think about what you want. Talk to a lawyer to see what your rights are.


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## life101

So sorry you are here. What do you want to do? Do you want to stay married? Have you gathered all the evidence? Have you contacted a lawyer?

Start IC soon.

1. Cheaters stay in a relationship/marriage only if there are not enough suitable outside options.

2. To be honest in a relationship you need empathy. Cheaters don't have it. Empathy is not something that suddenly grows inside of you when a divine light shines upon you.

3. Happiness is a cheating spouse on the rearview mirror. A cheater is not a decent person's time and effort. Why do you want to stay with the WS? Why is the WS such a catch? Why is your worth so low?

4. File for divorce. Start IC ASAP with a therapist experienced in infidelity related matters.

5. Protect yourself financially.

6. You have enough self-esteem not to tolerate cheating. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

7. You deserve better and you can get better. You deserve to live free, free from the fear of being cheated on and free from a life of constant fear.

8. Your children need a role model, someone who will teach them acceptable behavior and boundaries. If you forgive and accept your WS's behavior, you will set up very bad examples for your children, and this will lead to further heartaches. 

9. You are responsible for your happiness. Never in future tie your own happiness with someone or something. It will lead to pain and sufferings. Happiness has to come from within.

10. Embrace the light, knowledge, and freedom. It will get better if you want to get it better.


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## Chaparral

Whave you done so far? Do you have undeniable proof? You don't need to make any decisions just yet.

Most importantly, do not cry or beg in front of her. If she doesn't know you know check out your options here before you accuse her.


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## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Whave you done so far? Do you have undeniable proof? You don't need to make any decisions just yet.
> 
> Most importantly, do not cry or beg in front of her. If she doesn't know you know check out your options here before you accuse her.


Please breathe first
When you can give us details so we can better help you.

You may have PTSD.
If you think you are out of control from the shock leave the house.


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## hawx20

I had suspicions for a while and found a text on her phone tonight. She had no choice to come clean. It was with the deadbeat sperm donor of my stepson. Sure does answer a ton of questions. She's been crying for the past 3 hours and I'm devastated because my little 5 year old angel has no idea life as she knows it is about to end. That's what is tearing me up inside. I am so numb I can't even think....


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## tom67

hawx20 said:


> I had suspicions for a while and found a text on her phone tonight. She had no choice to come clean. It was with the deadbeat sperm donor of my stepson. Sure does answer a ton of questions. She's been crying for the past 3 hours and I'm devastated because my little 5 year old angel has no idea life as she knows it is about to end. That's what is tearing me up inside. I am so numb I can't even think....


I'm sorry

Stay somewhere else for a few days if you can.

Or better yet tel her to stay at his place and move on.

But whatever you decide think first


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## dontbeused

hawx20 said:


> I had suspicions for a while and found a text on her phone tonight. She had no choice to come clean. It was with the deadbeat sperm donor of my stepson. Sure does answer a ton of questions. She's been crying for the past 3 hours and I'm devastated because my little 5 year old angel has no idea life as she knows it is about to end. That's what is tearing me up inside. I am so numb I can't even think....


So she was using you for stability and him for the sex.. Man this is a typical one that really goes nowhere fast. You are right to disconnect from her immediately. You are right to go dark on her and expose her to all friends and family. She should be shamed. What she is doing now is crying for being caught, not crying for hurting you. 
She chose sex over a lot of things, and those things matter. She deserves to be alone, with no support from you. Do not acknowledge her apologies, they are her apologizing to herself anyway, she is just going to direct them at you. If you truly were as important as she will now claim you are, she would have been faithful. She is trash. Move on as quick as you can.


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## Harken Banks

Take as much time as you can with this. Not engaging with her at all may be best for a while. Talk and listen to your friends. I screwed up my own situation with my eagerness for immediate resolution. Hindsight.


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## tom67

Harken Banks said:


> Take as much time as you can with this. Not engaging with her at all may be best for a while. Talk and listen to your friends. I screwed up my own situation with my eagerness for immediate resolution. Hindsight.


Harken hope you are doing well

End threadjack.


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## lordmayhem

Going thru your other posts, this explains everything about your WW not wanting sex with you:

*Because she has been banging another man. She was never really LD, she is just being faithful to her OM and wanting sex with him, not you.*

As you said in another thread:



hawx20 said:


> I just couldnt live with a woman who is lusting over another man whether it be physical or emotional. That violates the whole foundation of marriage to me.
> 
> I dont know how people stay with cheating spouses. Thats about the only thing I would break up my family over.
> 
> You have to ask yourself if you can live with it. Its always going to be nagging you in the back of your mind. I'd hate to be in a marriage where your spouse has betrayed your trust like that.


Its time to file. You say she's been cheating with your stepson's father (her ex) for the past year. I would say its probably been longer. She wants him for the hot sex. You said you don't care about being alpha/beta, just providing for your family.

The problem is, that is the only thing she sees you as: A provider. The guy who pays the bills and takes care of the family. She's not sexually interested in you anymore. Her OM, her ex is the one who turns her on. She gives you duty sex, if you get any at all.

You need to get rid of her.


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## hawx20

dontbeused said:


> She should be shamed. What she is doing now is crying for being caught, not crying for hurting you.
> She chose sex over a lot of things, and those things matter. She deserves to be alone, with no support from you. Do not acknowledge her apologies, they are her apologizing to herself anyway, she is just going to direct them at you. If you truly were as important as she will now claim you are, she would have been faithful. She is trash. Move on as quick as you can.




YeAh she just keeps saying I'm sorry and I love you and I keep telling her to stop insulting me. She's sorry she got caught...nothing more...

I'm trying to think what's next and I just can't do it.....I'm in complete shock and this can't be real....just a few hours ago my daughter and I were watching her show together without a care in the world and now that whole world is decimated


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## hawx20

I need to let the shock wear off...I'm still thinking I am imagining this and it's not real.....I'm hurt, angry, and scared and just typing this is difficult....I feel like I'm watching myself from the outside...


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## WyshIknew

I don't want to thread jack but I've noticed a few threads just lately where sex has been lacking and an affair has been discovered.

I wonder how many of the sex is lacking threads are indicative of an affair?


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## lordmayhem

Tell her to let her no-good, baby's daddy support her since she wants him so bad. She only gave you sh!tty, boring, duty sex, while she was giving her OM pornstar sex. You had to beg and plead for it, but she spread her legs for her OM willingly and eagerly. This is one of the things that hurts so much about an affair, that a BS's wayward spouse gave everything to their affair partner, while their BS was starved for affection/sex. 

You're not alone. Many here have felt the pain of being betrayed like that. Tell her to leave the house for a while. Don't medicate yourself with alcohol.


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## TheFlood117

Sorry you are here. You are in shock, it will last a bit, maybe a few day's. Then the anger will hit. Hard. At that time your wife needs to be out of the house. You will not stand the sight of her, and even if your a very calm and relatively decent guy you might say and/or do something to her that could hurt you in divorce and recovery. 

She needs to leave. There really is no other choice. She leaves. You stay with the house and kids. She needs to face consequences. 

And divorce her. 

Stay on TAM. Unfortunately many of us have been in your shoes. There is some solace in that I guess. Not much, but there it is. 

Good luck.


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## warlock07

Well, she loves those jokes. In fact, she uses the jokes to back up her claim that married people dont have much sex. I dont recall there being a sex problem before our child was born 6 years ago. All she wants to do is sleep she tells me. She does require a ton of sleep and she leads a very active lifestyle while awake. While I can understand her being tired, sex is what gets put on hold, not so much the things that make her tired. 

Oddly enough, she did finally acknowledge the other day that there may be a medical issue with her LD. I was shocked to hear that. Only problem is, she wont do anything to fix it.

This woman!!!


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## warlock07

> Well, she loves those jokes. In fact, she uses the jokes to back up her claim that married people dont have much sex. I dont recall there being a sex problem before our child was born 6 years ago. All she wants to do is sleep she tells me. She does require a ton of sleep and she leads a very active lifestyle while awake. While I can understand her being tired, sex is what gets put on hold, not so much the things that make her tired.
> 
> Oddly enough, she did finally acknowledge the other day that there may be a medical issue with her LD. I was shocked to hear that. Only problem is, she wont do anything to fix it.





> After telling her all the things I do for her, and telling her I was almost done with this marriage, she of course wanted to shut me up by having sex.
> 
> I of course refused, telling her I dont want her duty sex or "shut me up" sex. She became relentless and started doing everything in her power to have sex with me. The more I refused, the harder she tried. Eventually my weak ass gave in, and we had hot and passionate sex


This woman!!! 

She needs you financially, doesn't she ?


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## warlock07

> Stepson:
> His father is pretty much a deadbeat loser. Constantly missing child support, has a wife and stepson himself who he treats like his son. Has a "every other weekend only" relationship with my stepson out of guilt. No phone calls during the week, no interest in his life, nothing.
> 
> I've pretty much raised him since he was 5. I'm his dad and love him as if he were my own. I help him with his homework every day, spend time with him, reward him when he does well, try to teach him to become a strong man. If anything, I've gone above and beyond to help overcome the fact that his biological father is only in the picture due to guilt from his parents.
> 
> So when i hear him tell his bio father he loves him and actually asks my wife for money to buy him an xmas/birthday gift, which he has never asked for me, it burns. He shows ultimate respect to his bio father and really pushes attitude to me.


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## davecarter

WyshIknew said:


> I don't want to thread jack but I've noticed a few threads just lately where sex has been lacking and an affair has been discovered.
> 
> *I wonder how many of the sex is lacking threads are indicative of an affair*?


_Very _high %


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## Chaparral

I agree with your first thoughts if sh were to have an affair. Drop her off at her ex's house and find a lawyer.


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## hawx20

I managed to fall asleep last night and when I woke up I was immediately hoping last night was a dream. I'm still in shock and honestly I am scared to death.

My life and my future just radically altered course and I don't have the slightest idea what I'm doing. To top it off, I'm sure I won't have full custody of my daughter thanks to the way the courts favor women.

Also, to answer someone's question.....she doesn't need me financially. We make pretty much the same amount. She needs me as much as I need her on that. We can both survive solo, but it will be tougher for her.


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## Dad&Hubby

hawx20 said:


> YeAh she just keeps saying I'm sorry and I love you and I keep telling her to stop insulting me. She's sorry she got caught...nothing more...
> 
> I'm trying to think what's next and I just can't do it.....I'm in complete shock and this can't be real....just a few hours ago my daughter and I were watching her show together without a care in the world and now that whole world is decimated


First and foremost. Those moments you have with your daughter don't have to end if your marriage ends.

Yes, you won't be able to have them everyday, but the days you have your daughter (PS make it 50% of the time) dedicate to her. 

It will be okay.


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## Thorburn

Don't make any hasty decisions. You are in the land of pain. You have time to sort everything out and it will take time. Many of us here on TAM have gone through what you are now experiencing. It will be rough for a while.

1. Your wife need to have NC with the dude. NC means NC. No goodbyes, nothing.
2. She must come clean on everything. Passwords, phone, etc. Nothing deleted.
3. Expose the A. 
4. Get some exercise, eat, no alcohol, no going suicidal.
5. No begging, no pleading, don't go whimpy on us. 
6. Ask her for a timeline of events. Ask her to write it down.
7. Get tested for STDs.
8. Do the 180 if needed.
9. Go see an attorney and don't let her know about it.


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## happyman64

Hawx

Step back.

Peruse through your old threads.

Look how hard you worked on yourself, on your marriage just to improve your relationship.

Just to try to make her happy.

You spent the better part of 2013 trying to figure out what is wrong.

Now you know. Instead of "Just busted her" your thread should have been titled "I am not crazy!!!".

I think you owe it to yourself to step back, evaluate this past year and your marriage and then make a decision.

Because your wife is a truly selfish person. And you and the kids deserve better.

HM


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## Rottdad42

Hawx, the question is what are you prepared to do now that you know? For me the shock faded after a half day. It takes a few to sink in. Is this real? Did I just see that text? Am I crazy,paranoid? No none of those things. You didn't write those texts. So what is it then, just a friend, nope, cheater speak. It was only one time, nope cheater speak. You are controlling, nope cheater speak. This is what you will get in between the crying and so on. Deflection is the name of the game. Don't fall for it. What it looks like, is what it looks like. If the situation was reversed, would she automatically think you were playing around, yes indeed, without question, reservation, or purpose of evasion. Sorry duty speak for a second. Gaslight for now, hammer the hell out of her with questions. All the W's, (who,what,where). Give her no room to attempt a story about BS. You have been played if she makes you think or feel bad about what she did. You know, "You pushed me to do this" crap. Stand firm my friend, be strong and stand your ground. Keep coming here for help, we will do our best to support you as best as we can. I say we, because we have been there and are doing that. Good luck.


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## RWB

hawx20 said:


> I need to let the shock wear off...*I'm still thinking I am imagining this and it's not real*.....I'm hurt, angry, and scared and just typing this is difficult....*I feel like I'm watching myself from the outside...*


I remember that same feeling like being out of body. I remember waking up from sleep and for a split second thinking it was a dream. I did not eat for 4 days. Your body is being abused by your mind.

"Let the shock wear off"... It took about 2 weeks before I could start to think without having difficulty breathing. It took a full year before making a decision on D or R. 

It a rough road, but it get better.


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## lordmayhem

Still don't believe in that alpha/beta crap? Because you fell into the beta/devoted dad/provider role, she had no interest for you. You did everything for her and she took everything for granted.

Do the 180. Look it up since we're not allowed to post it here. Stop doing things for her. 

And don't be so sure that the courts will automatically give her custody. Consult a lawyer. There are lawyers who specialize in Father's rights. Cordell & Cordell is one such firm. 

BTW, where was she meeting up with him for sex, you know, the sex she was denying you? Now you know that she was never LD, or just "tired", she was giving it up to her OM.


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## turnera

lordmayhem said:


> Still don't believe in that alpha/beta crap? Because you fell into the beta/devoted dad/provider role, she had no interest for you. You did everything for her and she took everything for granted.


 Pretty much. 

Don't make any quick decisions. Let your emotions work themselves out first. In the meantime, read NMMNG and MMSLP. It will help you balance out in your head where you should be.


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## bryanp

Very sorry for you. Get tested for STD's and see a lawyer to understand your options. Show her that there are indeed consequences to her actions. Good luck my friend.


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## treyvion

WyshIknew said:


> I don't want to thread jack but I've noticed a few threads just lately where sex has been lacking and an affair has been discovered.
> 
> I wonder how many of the sex is lacking threads are indicative of an affair?


I've been on these sites for a while. It's around 50% or more of the cases where the spouse isn't having sex with the other, because they are getting the need met elsewhere. They will not see their BS in a sexual light and be cold to them.


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## KanDo

I am sorry that your world has been destroyed but happy you now know the truth of your marital problems. \\See an attorney now. File. You can always drop the divorce latter. Please realize that your daughter will be better off being FROM a broken home than living in one. 

Many of us have survived the devastation of infidelity. You will too.


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## Philat

hawx20 said:


> I managed to fall asleep last night and when I woke up I was immediately hoping last night was a dream. *I'm still in shock and honestly I am scared to death.*
> 
> My life and my future just radically altered course and I don't have the slightest idea what I'm doing. To top it off, I'm sure I won't have full custody of my daughter thanks to the way the courts favor women.
> 
> Also, to answer someone's question.....she doesn't need me financially. We make pretty much the same amount. She needs me as much as I need her on that. We can both survive solo, but it will be tougher for her.


As many others have said, do not make any decisions or take any actions beyond seeing an attorney while you are in this state. Many of us have found that clarity and truth were obtained only when we stopped being afraid of the end of the marriage, at which point paradoxically the marriage can be saved if desired.


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## hawx20

Thanks for the replies. I am too upset to make decisions right now so I'm trying so hard to stay rational. She's begging and crying to give her a chance and she will spend the rest of her life making it up. She wants to see a counselor. I just don't know how I can ever get the picture of them two together out of my head


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## Clay2013

Go get counseling with her. Take some time out for yourself. Maybe even stay somewhere else for a while to see what you really want. You have been through so much in so little time. You need time to think. You wont be able to do this if she has your ear every second your home. 

Clay


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## jnj express

Let her do what she needs to do, for herself---do not let her sway you into any decisions

As to counseling---there are good and bad counselors---if you get talked into counseling---check the counselor out thoroughly

Have you had any kind of conversation with her---so as to find out why she needed to spread her legs for this guy, and in doing so---she knowingly destroyed her own childs life, and your life---can she give you a WHY?????


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## X-B

I know how you feel.Like others have said you need some time to think. For what it's worth at least she was crying and saying she was sorry(maybe sorry about being caught) My wife got mad at me for snooping and I had to take a lOOOOng walk so I would not become physical It does suck being shaking to the core. I am sorry you are here with the rest of us. There is some great advice on here..


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## Lovemytruck

hawx20 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am too upset to make decisions right now so I'm trying so hard to stay rational. She's begging and crying to give her a chance and she will spend the rest of her life making it up. She wants to see a counselor. I just don't know how I can ever get the picture of them two together out of my head


Talk is cheap for her. Don't fall for it.

You now know the real woman you are married to. It will take time to realize it, but she is not worthy of you.

Hang tough. So sorry you are here.


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## MattMatt

Think before you act. Take time to eat and breathe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

If you haven't already, you need to contact his wife/girlfriend.


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## harrybrown

So has she gone NC with the sperm donor? 

Has she written you a timeline of the affair? (and diary)

Has she been tested for stds?

Have you informed the sperm donors wife?

She will trickle-truth you. Do not stand for it.


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## CASE_Sensitive

Does O/M ever see stepson?
the real crap part is that O/M has a son with your WW, you have a daughter with her.....she'll have to be in contact with both of you.


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## jack.c

hawx20 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am too upset to make decisions right now so I'm trying so hard to stay rational. She's begging and crying to give her a chance and she will spend the rest of her life making it up. She wants to see a counselor. I just don't know how I can ever get the picture of them two together out of my head


PLEASE RE-READ WHAT YOU WROTE FIRST:

_my wife has been cheating on me for the past year..._

We are talking about 1 year!! not 1 month or week or day, BUT 1 YEAR! Now.... after 1 year she cry's? REALLY???
Take all the time you need to think straight, but start doing it with the 180


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## Healer

hawx20 said:


> I need to let the shock wear off...I'm still thinking I am imagining this and it's not real.....I'm hurt, angry, and scared and just typing this is difficult....I feel like I'm watching myself from the outside...


Been there brother. You're in for probably the roughest ride of your life.

One very important thing that a lot of vets on this forum told me when I was first knifed in the heart was "you don't need to make any decisions right now". This is so true. You are in shock - literally. 

You need to stay as calm as possible, be sure you have all the evidence, and follow the advice you get here.

Take control. You are in control of your life, not her. You WILL get through this. But it is going to hurt like hell.

Stay calm, objective, and listen to the vets on this forum. Sadly, yours in not a unique situation - even though it feels like you're the only one in the world who is going through this. You're not alone.


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## lordmayhem

I rarely ever post in the forum anymore, but for some reason, your story piqued my interest. So I started going thru all your threads and posts and noticed that the red flags that indicate an affair were right there, but you didn't see them for what they were. Don't feel bad about that, most BS's miss the red flags even when they are staring them in the face. But lets go over your posts and see.



hawx20 said:


> To all the women who have had sex with their husbands just to shut them up, what are you thinking during that time? I hate when I initiate sex and my wife is tired at *tells me "fine just hurry up i'm tired" and lies there like a dead log.*
> 
> I'd rather not even do it and i know shes only doing it so i dont get upset. *I tried it before but you feel like the ultimate ********* when you're trying to enjoy yourself and your wife just has that "are you done yet?" look on her face.
> 
> I've always wondered what the hell she is thinking about the every few times i've actually done it this way*


Sad to say, she was most likely thinking about her OM and wanting you to hurry up and finish. There was a thread about this in the old cheater forum, the old d o c c o o l forum, and the thread was about "Has sex with your affair partner ruined you for sex with your spouse?", or something similar, and the majority of cheating wives answered that it did. That they gritted their teeth when having sex with their husbands. One even posted that she felt violated having sex with her betrayed husband.



hawx20 said:


> *My wife goes out once a week with her friends* and I'm fine with that. Myself, I enjoy being in my mancave. Honestly, I dont have many friends and the ones I do have live to far away to do anything with.
> 
> *She keeps wanting me to go out and do something.* I like being at home, and I built my mancave so I could have someplace to unwind at.
> 
> *I just dont understand why she wants me to go out so bad.* I understand the need to get out away from the spouse from time to time but I would really have no where to go....I'm not a hermit or anything so I just dont know why she keeps telling me to go out somewhere.


So she was going out on GNOs with her toxic friends, then wanted you to go out too. And how do you know that she was going out on GNOs and not meeting her OM? Many toxic friends will cover for a friend who is having an affair. They will even provide alibis. 



hawx20 said:


> *Just to be clear this is nothing negative, no deceit, or any bad doing on my wifes part like trying to get me out of the house to talk to someone else*....Just trying to get clued into the female brain...


Indeed, the whole reason was to get you out of the way so she can meet or talk to her OM. You realize that now.



hawx20 said:


> *These are words my wife rarely ever says to me on her own*. About the only time she ever says it first is after a fight and a "serious talk". Even then, it lasts for about a day or two and then i never hear them unless i say it first.
> 
> Now ive asked her about this and *she claims shes not the affectionate type and that she does love me*. Its just not something she thinks about. Well that may be true but everytime she talks or texts her best friends, shes always throws out a "love you guys" or "love you" to them. I pretty much need to threaten leaving to get that response.
> 
> *It pisses me off to see her text that to her friends...and yes they are just friends and not secretly a lover or anything.* Dont really know how i should feel about this or how to take it.


Your WW completely denied you the love and affection your were starving for, but freely giving it out to her friends, especially her OM. Again, you were supremely confident and were blind to her having an affair. This is not uncommon. 



hawx20 said:


> I'm so tired of this. My LD wife is just ridiculous. Not only does she expect me to be happy that she is LD, she expects me to act perfectly happy when she withholds it.
> 
> I used to get mad after being rejected and I used to hold a grudge the next day. I dont do that anymore. I'm not mad, but i'm not happy either. Where as before I would be visibly upset and very short with her, now i'm just quiet, dont spend as much time with her, and just not as loving as I normally would be. I cant help that being rejected is hurtful and her withholding sex frustrates me.
> 
> I do my best not to show my anger/frustration but she totally expects me to be happy even after countless rejections. *She actually told me that shes not my sex slave*. I didnt know trying to have sex once or twice a week with your wife is considered needing a sex slave.....
> 
> How do some of you in a HD/LD marriage do it? I'm rejected more now than i ever was going up to women when i was single. Sex was easier to get with a woman i just met than it is now with my wife.
> 
> *And before you ask, her having an affair is out. I handle all financials an IT guy so i know the ends and outs of every piece of equipment she has. Her technical skills maxed with logging into facebook everyday. There is no way in hell she could pull it off.*
> 
> So the problem is either medical, which if it is she refuses to have it looked in to, or its me. I was overweight and have been getting back into shape (no thanks to her trying to sabotage my efforts). I"m pretty much back in shape but not much has changed....
> 
> I am looking for advice and how to handle this. I dont know whats worse....getting rejected by your wife or your wife expecting you to be completely happy after she rejected you for a tv show on dvr....


No, she didn't have medical problems. They weren't the root of her LD, she was banging her OM, that's why. She even had the nerve to tell you she wasn't your sex slave. She was actually her OM's sex slave. She was giving it up to him whenever she could, while you were starving for it like a man dying of thirst in the desert.



hawx20 said:


> She honestly believes that this is how marriage is. At least thats what she says. *Everytime i bring up her LD, she says "welcome to eing married". I tried kissing her passionately the other day and her response was "okay we're not in high school anymore".*
> 
> She even gaslighted you into thinking that was just the way she is and how she thought of sex in marriage. But I bet she would she would kiss her OM passionately as much as she could.
> 
> *Forget oral. She says its disgusting now that we are married.* Married couples dont do that and i know my chances of winning the lottery twice are better than ever getting a BJ from her again. I love giving oral but everytime i venture down on her she gets ticklish before i even touch her and she doesnt let me do it.
> 
> Honestly, sex with her has gone from passionate and exciting to just going through the motions.
> 
> I know this will never get fixed. To add insult to injury the fact that *she blames me for being upset about it. She accepts no responsibility and makes me out to be the bad guy for being upset at rejection*. Cheating is out of the question, at the very least because of our child. I dont want this to end our marriage but I fear it will as age will only make it worse. I cant imagine how bad she will be at 50 when shes this bad already.


Sad to say, she most likely gave her OM all the BJs he wanted because she wanted to please HIM, not you. This is one of the most common, but hurtful things about an affair. Look at this thread:

"She/he did things with him/her"



hawx20 said:


> ^^ *She thinks i want a sex slave. She thinks this is how marriage is*. She is going to turn 40 and *loves the fact that people think shes in her late 20s/early 30s. She wants to act like a younger person. When it comes to bed, she wants to act like shes 90 years old*.
> 
> *Anytime sex is mentioned, she switches off and accuses me of just wanting to use her for sex and wanting her legs open on demand.* She will never have herself checked out to see if her LD is related to a health issue. She has no interest to do so. She is perfectly content with her sex drive and couldnt care less to change it. *She feels i am being selfish and ridiculous wanting sex more than once a week*. She thinks i'm only happy when i'm between her legs. I've tried telling her that i love having sex with her more so for the emotional feeling than the physical, but that doesnt help.
> 
> Like i said, *she loves to act and look young*. She loves to be fun going and loves that no one thinks she is the age she is. But when it comes to the bedroom, she has no problems acting 40 years her elder.


More gaslighting, accusing you that you wanted a sex slave, when in fact, she was banging her OM. She actually feels that she is cheating on him when she has sex with you. This is the honest truth when it comes to cheaters. You say she loves to dress and act young. Sadly, this isn't for you, this is for OM.



hawx20 said:


> Anyone have any good tips on the best way to deal with a selfish spouse? *I'm really at the end of my rope and I dont know how much more I can take.*
> 
> My spouse is selfish in pretty much every aspect of our lives. Sex is only on her terms, when she wants it, which isnt much. *Free time away from the kids, she thinks she is entitled to it, I have to fight and scratch for mine*. She is even selfish about her mood swings. She can be a complete ***** and its "okay" because she is either tired or hungry and I should know this. I have no excuse for ever being in a bad mood.
> 
> These are just a few examples but our life is pretty much whats good for her is not good for me. Just wanted to get some advice from anyone who has been married to a selfish person. I'm extremely frustrated right now.


I don't know how you can stay married to this WW in light of what she has been doing.



hawx20 said:


> My wife is perfectly happy with having sex 1 time per month, if even that. *She told me to go find a nympho when I told her i would be happy with 1-2 times per week. She thinks her LD is perfectly normal and that I'm just a sex addict for wanting it 1-2 times per week.*
> 
> How do you not take a LD spouse personal? Questions pop into my head like is it her having a LD due to nature or am I the reason for her LD? Is she having an affair? Has she no attraction for me? Am I to fat, ugly, etc for her?
> 
> All this rejection and doubt really drags me down and makes me become a man/husband that I dont want to be. I get irritable, selfish, and withdrawn. Her issues may not be because of me at all, but how in the hell do you not take it personal? Especially when she thinks she is perfectly normal and doesnt think this is a problem that needs to be worked on?
> 
> 
> *P.S. - for the record, i know she is not having an affair. It would be nearly impossible for her to pull off without raising suspicions for various reasons so I scratched that off the list of why she is LD with me.*


She rejects you constantly, but she had no problems giving her OM pornstar sex. You thought it was impossible for her to have an affair. Unfortunately, like many of us, myself included, you underestimated your WW. When it comes to cheating, they will find a way. They can find the time, believe me. 



hawx20 said:


> We both work. She wasnt always like this. When we first met she was awesome in bed. We've been together about 8 years and the past few have been like this.
> 
> *She always complains she is tired but she seems to have all the energy in the world for working out and hanging out with her friends if they call.*
> 
> My wife is a very selfish woman. She even admits that she is. I've thought about divorce but the thought of not being able to have my daughter everyday kills me.
> 
> I try not to take it personal but its hard because it may very well be personal. I dont know if its just the way she is (as she says), or if its because of me.


Why do you even want to stay with this selfish cheater?



hawx20 said:


> I know that women are more open with their female friends then a man is with his male friends. I am very slightly concerned about a female friend my wife has though.
> 
> *I saw a message between them in which the other women randomly asked one day what my wife was wearing. She then asked if it was black panties and that bra she liked. My wife replied red panties, no bra and asked what she was wearing. The other woman replied that she was in her bday suit and the both LOL'd and changed the subject*. The other woman ended the conversation with *"bye lover"*.
> 
> It just struck me as odd and I dont know if this was just them being silly or if it means something. There has been no other conversation like that since (the message was 5 months ago). The other woman is engaged and all 4 of us have hung out quite a few times.
> 
> There was only 1 other time where their behavior struck me as slightly inappropriate but there was drinking involved and I'm not sure if i didnt blow it out of proportion for other reasons.
> 
> *Now I'm not asking people to tell me if she is cheating with this woman based off this*. I'm just asking if I should be concerned or not. Again, I know women are more open with their friends then men are, so I just want to get some opinions on that conversation.


Now, is this how you busted her? Very often, cheaters will put the name of their AP under a friend's name. You asked the forum what was going on and many of the women here told you that they don't talk like that to each other. Of course, you were still SURE that your WW was not cheating on you so you didn't even entertain the idea.

You've tried to leave a few times, and even packed your bags. Then she puts on the waterworks, the crocodile tears, and then manipulates you with a little sex to keep you from leaving. Because she knows you're starving for love and affection, she gives you just enough to keep you from walking out the door. The trouble is, it doesn't last, and then she's back to normal. 

From the way she's manipulated you, you're right in thinking that she's secure in the marriage that you'll never leave her. Since you have never filed or actually left to prove you're serious, she probably thinks that she can manipulate you once more into thinking that she's sorry.

This is what I think will happen if you stay, and that you will be in False R if you even attempt R. This is the strategy that I've seen in the cheater forums.

She will sex you up real good over the next few weeks. She'll put on the waterworks and say she's sorry for a few weeks. She'll tell her OM to cool the affair until the storm blows over. One cheating wife in the cheater forum said on D-Day, that she was going to have to "fvck his brains out" for a while to get her betrayed husband off the trail. 

Then, when she thinks you've been placated, and the storm has blown over, the affair will resume, just deeper underground. Meaning, they will be more careful about it. Her actions will return to normal. You will get the "Get over it already" speech. You will get the "you're controlling" speech when you want to check up on her or look over her texts. Or, since you busted her by seeing her texts, she will get a burner phone. 

She has manipulated you before, so she thinks she can do so again. Don't allow it. 

BTW, like others have said, you need to expose this affair to the OMW. Do it now.

Do you know about Trickle Truth? If she confessed to having an affair for a year, take that with a grain of salt. It was likely much, much, longer.  When did she start becoming LD? That would be a clue.


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## hawx20

I confronted the guy and needless to say he was crapping bricks and crying. He was so sorry he said and quickly offered to vanish out of our life, including his sons. What a winner. 

I have some old papers and have his address, ss number, and do number. I found his wife on Facebook. He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time. 

I'm taking this all in and won't act irrationally. My wife is going to be home from work soon so it will get real interesting.


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## azteca1986

Amazing post lordmayehm. I wish I could like it more than once.

No amount of tears can wash away what she put you through, OP.


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## lordmayhem

Protect yourself. Run to your local store and get a VAR. You don't want to be accused of domestic violence. 

Strange, she actually went to work? Wow. On D-Day, mine wasn't able to even try to go to work.


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## tom67

hawx20 said:


> I confronted the guy and needless to say he was crapping bricks and crying. He was so sorry he said and quickly offered to vanish out of our life, including his sons. What a winner.
> 
> I have some old papers and have his address, ss number, and do number. I found his wife on Facebook. He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time.
> 
> I'm taking this all in and won't act irrationally. My wife is going to be home from work soon so it will get real interesting.


Yea maybe one time...last week ugh.

Good job I hope you make contact with his w.

You probably should have contacted her first but hey you are doing great considering.


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## TDSC60

hawx20 said:


> I confronted the guy and needless to say he was crapping bricks and crying. He was so sorry he said and quickly offered to vanish out of our life, including his sons. What a winner.
> 
> I have some old papers and have his address, ss number, and do number. I found his wife on Facebook. He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time.
> 
> I'm taking this all in and won't act irrationally. My wife is going to be home from work soon so it will get real interesting.


Do not believe a word he says and do not believe her. They will both protect themselves and each other. You said the affair had been on for over a year. When did you first notice her disinterest in sex with you? Most likely that is around the time they started having sex. She was not interested in you because she felt she was betraying him if she had sex with you.

I know you want to believe it is not as bad as it looks but history shows it is probably worse than it looks. You will get no truthful answers from either of them at this point.


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## lordmayhem

hawx20 said:


> He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time.


Only one time last November. Sure. 


:lol:

You better get yourself checked out for STDs. I hope during the few times she gave you duty sex, that you weren't getting sloppy seconds.


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## thunderstruck

lordmayhem said:


> Strange, she actually went to work? Wow. On D-Day, mine wasn't able to even try to go to work.


If she went to work. May have been runnng around all day taking care of D-Day + divorce related errands.


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## the guy

How interesting is it going to get, lordmayhem spelled it all out and your old lady is going to give you the crap you got last night..

Except for the blameshifting...she might try and deflect and has just spent the day figuring out how to do some damage control.

The bottom line is if any time in your life *now* is the time to show her how confident you are in letting her go...even if your scared sh1tless now is the time to fake it until you make it.

Chick dig confident guys so stand your ground with one thing here and that is you diserve good things.

Don't let her blame you and don't apoligize for the affair.



The only interesting part is if your old lady is really remorseful and show a huge degree of submission in doing the heavy lifting to save her marriage....yes her marriage...not yours as far as she is concerned its over .....if for one second she see a weak man infront of her she will walk all over you.

You don;t have to be an @ss or a jerk but in no uncertian terms your old lady has to see that you will not share her.


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## the guy

The next order of business is a no contact letter.

A letter she write to OM denouncing him and proclaiming what a better man you are.

This letter should include how wrong the affair was and what they did was horrible,evil, and deceitful.

This letter isn't an apoligy letter explaining why they can't see each other its a letter telling the OM what a POS they both are and how wrong it was. Its a letter informing the OM that the lie the fantasy and the betrayal will stop for good.


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## lordmayhem

thunderstruck said:


> If she went to work. May have been runnng around all day taking care of D-Day + divorce related errands.


:iagree:

Probably been in contact with OM, trying to get their stories straight, how they are going to deal with this, their strategy, etc.


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## mahike

hawx20 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am too upset to make decisions right now so I'm trying so hard to stay rational. She's begging and crying to give her a chance and she will spend the rest of her life making it up. She wants to see a counselor. I just don't know how I can ever get the picture of them two together out of my head


I understand that one pretty well. It does fade with time. The mind movies are the worst. When these things started running through my head I would at first try to refocus on my kids. It helped. I started doing physical things, driving range, batting cages, speed bag. It really does pass with time

So everyone is telling you it was once and I bet it was protected sex. Right now you cannot believe anything she is saying to you. Tell her not matter what she is to get her butt to the Dr tomorrow for and STD check and you want the results in writing .

Good Luck and I am very sorry you are going through this crap.


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## jnj express

Be icy cool, calm, and collected---at this point don't try to reclaim your territory, and have sex with her----the way she "dissed you" and to the extreme that she used the sex, when she wanted to -------Hysterical Bonding, will be contra to what is needed here

Lord Mayhem---has pretty much spelled this all out for you

You might best just go very DARK on her---converse only when necessary for things pertaining to your kid, and necessities of life---as to everything else----do not be nice to her what so ever---but make sure you do not abuse her---and just do your own thing and ignore her---as she has done to you for the last year or longer

Take plenty of time, and think out what you want for a future---you do not need to make any decisions, for as long as it takes

She is gonna push at you---she knows she has blown everyone's life apart---and she will want you to make a decision, so she can put this all behind her----remember---this is NOT ABOUT HER---as of now she comes last---1st there is what you need, then there is what your child needs---your wife, shouldn't even get consideration---as to the future!!!!!

The way she has dealt with you during her A---this will NEVER go away----you are gonna have to figure out, just how much misery you want, to put up with basically for the rest of your life

If you R---she will trigger you very probably every day---based on how she "dissed you"---you will look at her, and know what she PURPOSELY did to you---if you D--it will be bad---but w/out her there to trigger you---the effects will lessen

As I said---basically you are gonna have to decide, as to what level of misery you wanna live the rest of your life in


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## manticore

hawx20 said:


> I confronted the guy and needless to say he was crapping bricks and crying. He was so sorry he said and quickly offered to vanish out of our life, including his sons. What a winner.
> 
> I have some old papers and have his address, ss number, and do number. I found his wife on Facebook. He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time.
> 
> I'm taking this all in and won't act irrationally. My wife is going to be home from work soon so it will get real interesting.


does not matter what they say or promise, the OMW has right to know, and I doubt it was just onte time, that is what they are revealing and probably already put their story together.

don't fall in their lies, if you have been in TAM a while, you know how cheaters react once caught and how they insist it was just one time until more is proved.

If you are even to consider R you need the full truth, dont delude yourself by their cries, tell her you are gonna taker to a polygraph test to verify the lenght and number of encounters, and finally do what is best for you, you have to be aware that in her case the OM will be stay in her life forever as he is her the father of herr son, so if you are stron enough to deal with that you may have a chance to evercome this, but I think it will always be the risk of they betrayed you again after few years.


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## Mustbecrazy

This is a pretty impossible situation. NC with the OM (your WW's former husband/lover) will break your stepson's heart. I really don't think there's any way for her to go NC.

I know, from many, many years of experience, how damaging the initiation, rejection, anger, withdrawal game is to a marriage. If you have any desire whatsoever to reconcile, you need to try to figure out why your WW lost her attraction to you. I second the previous suggestion for reading the MMSL Primer and working the MAP, for your own benefit. However your situation turns out, you will be better off.


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## BobSimmons

Hoax..I hope this is not a hawx  Good luck with the confrontation


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## JohnC_depressed

hawx20 said:


> I confronted the guy and needless to say he was crapping bricks and crying. He was so sorry he said and quickly offered to vanish out of our life, including his sons. What a winner.
> 
> I have some old papers and have his address, ss number, and do number. I found his wife on Facebook. He said it was just the one time last November, which meant his wife was pregnant at the time.
> 
> I'm taking this all in and won't act irrationally. My wife is going to be home from work soon so it will get real interesting.


So sorry man - keep a level head and just file for divorce.


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## LostViking

Take all those posts you did in your other thread about how she refused you sex and affection and use them as bullet points for your confrontation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

A little piece from lordmayhem great post.


> I saw a message between them in which the other women randomly asked one day what my wife was wearing. She then asked if it was black panties and that bra she liked. My wife replied red panties, no bra and asked what she was wearing. The other woman replied that she was in her bday suit and the both LOL'd and changed the subject. The other woman ended the conversation with "bye lover".


It's very likely OM is lying about the extent but it's also likely she has been cheating on you with others too. Her constants GNOs point to it.
She's manioulative to the limit and an skilled liar.

Given the nightmare she has been putting you on I'd divorce yesterday but if you want to wait to make the final decision a detailed timeline to back up with a polygraph is in order.
I fear she's serial cheater.

Sorry man. Read lordmayhem's post a few times, the big picture is there.


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## hawx20

It's weird. I don't feel anything right now. The pain, anger, and shock are all gone. I literally do not care either way what happens. 

It's not a dullness, it's really a feeling of not caring if I get divorced or not. I didn't think it was going to happen this fast....is this normal?


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## Jasel

hawx20 said:


> It's weird. I don't feel anything right now. The pain, anger, and shock are all gone. I literally do not care either way what happens.
> 
> It's not a dullness, it's really a feeling of not caring if I get divorced or not. I didn't think it was going to happen this fast....is this normal?


You're still in shock. It won't last.


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## manticore

you are in shock, is normal, you just realized that your life is not what you thought, I have not read all your posts, but by seeing the lordmayhem summary I can tell you really love her and trusted her, and now probably all the rejections are making sense to you.

I just remember you did nothing to deserve this, this is not your fault, so don't try to give sense to the situation and don't blame yourself, your previous post show that you wanted to improve your marriage, unfortunately she had no the same resolve as you.


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## SaltInWound

Jasel said:


> You're still in shock. It won't last.


Anger is hanging around the corner when you least expect it.


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## jnj express

You are gonna go on a roller coaster ride of different emotions, and things will change weekly, if not daily---this will take years for you to get thru---it will get much better, the further you get away from D-Day---but its still gonna be there---what helps move it faster, is D---as the trigger will not be there day after day---pushing her agenda

She did you pretty low---and that is gonna hurt, for a long time----you got in her and her lovers way------now all of a sudden---reality has hit, and she has to try and pull her life back together---so she is very probably gonna manipulate you as best she can----just be very careful and wary, in your dealings with her


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## TheFlood117

hawx20 said:


> It's weird. I don't feel anything right now. The pain, anger, and shock are all gone. I literally do not care either way what happens.
> 
> It's not a dullness, it's really a feeling of not caring if I get divorced or not. I didn't think it was going to happen this fast....is this normal?



Yeah, this is a normal reaction to a high stress situation. Especially one that involves emotions- like cheating spouse. It's a defensive complex, your mind is shutting down to protect itself. 

Soon the anger will come. Intense anger. Best to not be around WW when that happens, and get into a gym and maybe seek therapy or hang out with friends. 

The anger is next. I'm so, so sorry man. It f*ckin' sucks. I'd rather lose my job, get kicked in the nuts, my car stolen and then pooped on by an elephant than have a my spouse cheat on me. 

It's truly destructive and terrible. 

Stay on TAM and vent. You'll be alright. The anger is inbound. Just be aware of that.


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## See_Listen_Love

hawx20 said:


> It's weird. I don't feel anything right now. The pain, anger, and shock are all gone. I literally do not care either way what happens.
> 
> It's not a dullness, it's really a feeling of not caring if I get divorced or not. I didn't think it was going to happen this fast....is this normal?


I would not call this being in shock. Then you would not be able to function. I think this is the opposite, you are now in the best mental state to deal with this crisis and your crumbling world.

You calmness and being 'cool' is for now the best way to handle your wife and situation. The best chance on a good outcome. I think you are made of steel internally, because you will do OK, and later you will feel OK about how you did.


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## aug

hawx20 said:


> It's weird. I don't feel anything right now. The pain, anger, and shock are all gone. I literally do not care either way what happens.
> 
> It's not a dullness, it's really a feeling of not caring if I get divorced or not. I didn't think it was going to happen this fast....is this normal?



Given your post history, perhaps the calm is the realization, the answer to why you thought your wife was LD.


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## hawx20

TheFlood117 said:


> Soon the anger will come. Intense anger. Best to not be around WW when that happens, and get into a gym and maybe seek therapy or hang out with friends.
> 
> The anger is next. I'm so, so sorry man. It f*ckin' sucks. I'd rather lose my job, get kicked in the nuts, my car stolen and then pooped on by an elephant than have a my spouse cheat on me.


For me, anger has always been the source of my strength. Not physical violence anger mind you....I've had a pretty hard life from the time I was a kid, and I handled it alone. Even though I had loving parents, the crap I went through couldnt be helped by them.

Somewhere along the line I found the ability to kill my emotions. It is my greatest defense mechanism to where my brain and heart says "okay thats enough, get your ass up and keep fighting..this will not break you". The anger takes over and becomes my rock. You would never know I'm angry because its bottled up inside. It gives me power, focus, and a fierce determination that wont allow me to break.

Thats where I am now. I never expected it to happen so quickly. Maybe because this was the worst pain I have ever felt, and thats saying alot. Where as 2 days ago I was a confused mess who couldnt even figure out what 2+2 was if you asked, I am now focused and unbreakable.

She may have knocked me down, but I'm up. She will not break me, she will not stop me, she will never keep me down. I'm too strong for her. She wanted an alpha male, now she will see the ultimate alpha male. However this ends, she will regret the day she ever crossed me. 

Her son, my stepson, just told her last night that he didnt want to spend the holidays with her. He wanted to spend them with me. Our daughter will understand one day what her mother did to her father and hopefully she will never become as stupid as her mother. Her friends and family are all coming down on her. Her father doesnt even want to talk to her or see her.

Her world is shattering before her eyes and collapsing on her. I, on the other hand, picked myself out of the rubble stronger, harder, wiser, and more determined then ever to fight for my happiness and my children.


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## LostViking

So what is the plan?


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## hawx20

LostViking said:


> So what is the plan?



The plan is to take life day by day. I'm not in a rush to make a decision. I went to see a lawyer yesterday and got some good info. I'm in the process of getting all my proof printed out before I tell her anything. She of course wants to work things out and go to therapy. I told her I would, but no promises and I dont see things working out. I'm really not telling her anything. I'm playing it cool, getting all my ducks in a row, and preparing for battle.

The toughest thing right now is my daughter. She is so young and does not understand what is happening. As strong as I said I am in my previous post, that little girl I have no defense for. Her being in the middle of this just guts me. If anything, when she grows up I want to be able to look her in the eye and tell her I did everything humanly possible to keep her parents together.

Now if she were older and able to understand, I'd be gone in a heart beat.



On a side note, about this whole alpha/beta thing I read on here........

I have admitted to being beta, I thought I was being a great husband. Someone, please, explain to me why she cheated with the ultimate beta man. He is a 6'3 steaming pile of crap. Spineless. Gutless. He is no man. She knew this. She knows hes a little *****. The first time I had him on the phone, he wasnt man enough to admit what he did. The second time I got him on the phone, he was crying like a little ***** begging and pleading with me. I told him to be a damn man for once.

I told her at the very least she could of at least cheated on me with a man, not some crying spineless little *****.


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## See_Listen_Love

hawx20 said:


> I told her at the very least she could of at least cheated on me with a man, not some crying spineless little *****.


Be glad he isn't, otherwise you would question your own qualities; this is 'Fate/Karma/God' helping you.


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## hawx20

Let me give you some insight on the type of "man" and "father" he is.

He has a 6 month old baby. He slept with my wife when his was pregnant. Anyways, when I confronted him yesterday, he told me if I never tell his wife he will vanish from our lives and never see his son again. He threw away his son to save his ass without hesitation. I told my idiot wife that this was the piece of crap she threw away her family for. 

No wonder her own son, who was a total mommas boy prior, told her he was going with me and my family for the holidays because he didnt want to spend them with her.


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## thunderstruck

hawx20 said:


> Someone, please, explain to me why she cheated with the ultimate beta man.


Sure, I'll play...how about, he listened to her, and made her feel special.

Please don't waste another second of your life trying to figure why she chose this POS.


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## turnera

hawx20 said:


> I have admitted to being beta, I thought I was being a great husband. Someone, please, explain to me why she cheated with the ultimate beta man.


She didn't see a spineless POS. She saw a confident, caring man who took what he wanted (alpha).


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## azteca1986

turnera said:


> She didn't see a spineless POS. She saw a confident, caring man who took what he wanted (alpha).


Oh give over. If he were a man he would march right in and take her from right in front of OP. Now THAT would be Alpha. Not sneaking around like a weasel. 

We don't have to perpetuate the idea that the every time a WW turns to an OM it's is because they were more Alpha than the BS.

Maybe she's more attracted to losers because they are her level.


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## dontbeused

He told you he will vanish if you don't tell his wife...?

That is hysterical to me. He can stay if he wants to, but his wife finds out. 
Do not say a word to anyone before you deliver the proof to her, but make sure his wife gets a copy of the evidence you have. OM is not to make any deals with you, screw that POS. Let her find out so she has a chance at being happy with a good man later in her own life, and her child a chance to have a good step dad someday. He gets to have his life blow up, just like yours has. Him sticking around is of no threat to you.
Do not let your anger become abusive to anyone. Even the wrong words used can be thought of as threatening and abusive behavior, to a court in a divorce proceeding.


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## sinnister

This has nothing to do with Alpha vs. Beta and everything to do with a cheater feeling entitled to do so.

Don't be fooled by the tears. Reading some of your previous posts, there was a willfull disregard for you as a husband and your daughter - your family! She has been doing this for a long time is my guess. And the tears are a smokescreen.


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## Philat

dontbeused said:


> He told you he will vanish if you don't tell his wife...?
> 
> That is hysterical to me. He can stay if he wants to, but his wife finds out.
> Do not say a word to anyone before you deliver the proof to her, but make sure his wife gets a copy of the evidence you have. OM is not to make any deals with you, screw that POS. Let her find out so she has a chance at being happy with a good man later in her own life, and her child a chance to have a good step dad someday. He gets to have his life blow up, just like yours has. Him sticking around is of no threat to you.
> Do not let your anger become abusive to anyone. Even the wrong words used can be thought of as threatening and abusive behavior, to a court in a divorce proceeding.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

OP, you are calling the shots. No deals with either WW or OM.


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## thunderstruck

dontbeused said:


> He told you he will vanish if you *don't tell his wife*...?


That also allows him to quietly resume things with your W in a few months when you've dropped your guard. 

C*ckroaches scatter when the lights come on. Blow this up.


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## rrrbbbttt

A promise from a POS who broke his vows when his wife was pregnant. Sounds like a deal to me.


----------



## warlock07

hawx20 said:


> For me, anger has always been the source of my strength. Not physical violence anger mind you....I've had a pretty hard life from the time I was a kid, and I handled it alone. Even though I had loving parents, the crap I went through couldnt be helped by them.
> 
> Somewhere along the line I found the ability to kill my emotions. It is my greatest defense mechanism to where my brain and heart says "okay thats enough, get your ass up and keep fighting..this will not break you". The anger takes over and becomes my rock. You would never know I'm angry because its bottled up inside. It gives me power, focus, and a fierce determination that wont allow me to break.
> 
> Thats where I am now. I never expected it to happen so quickly. Maybe because this was the worst pain I have ever felt, and thats saying alot. Where as 2 days ago I was a confused mess who couldnt even figure out what 2+2 was if you asked, I am now focused and unbreakable.
> 
> She may have knocked me down, but I'm up. She will not break me, she will not stop me, she will never keep me down. I'm too strong for her. She wanted an alpha male, now she will see the ultimate alpha male. However this ends, she will regret the day she ever crossed me.
> 
> Her son, my stepson, just told her last night that he didnt want to spend the holidays with her. He wanted to spend them with me. Our daughter will understand one day what her mother did to her father and hopefully she will never become as stupid as her mother. Her friends and family are all coming down on her. Her father doesnt even want to talk to her or see her.
> 
> Her world is shattering before her eyes and collapsing on her. I, on the other hand, picked myself out of the rubble stronger, harder, wiser, and more determined then ever to fight for my happiness and my children.


You exposed her or did she come clean by herself ?

There is always more truth than cheaters confess on the D-day.

Make sure you get the truth to know what you are reconciling with


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> Oh give over. If he were a man he would march right in and take her from right in front of OP. Now THAT would be Alpha. Not sneaking around like a weasel.


At the TIME, azteca, that is what she saw.


----------



## hawx20

turnera said:


> She didn't see a spineless POS. She saw a confident, caring man who took what he wanted (alpha).



If you call a weasel who cant keep a job, abandoned her when he knocked her up, has never once been a father to her son, cries like a ***** for her to return his child support because hes broke....thats no confident and caring man...thats a spineless POS...




azteca1986 said:


> Maybe she's more attracted to losers because they are her level.


BINGO! You hit the nail on the head. I told her this exact thing last night. She is the type of person who cares what people think. She always wants to hang around the "rich" sides of town because she doesnt want to be around "ghetto" people. I dont care what people think of me and I dont judge others. I know my worth, I know I have class and morals. I can easily be on the ghetto or rich side of town and have no worries. I told her she has to be on the rich side of town because deep down she knows shes covering up her insecurities about how she views herself. You can cover up trash but it still stinks.

Her boyfriend before me was a pure loser. This guy is a born loser. I'm not. I told her I'm everything she wishes she was. I told her that her having an affair was just trash wanting to be with trash.


----------



## manticore

hawx20 said:


> when I confronted him yesterday, he told me if I never tell his wife he will vanish from our lives and never see his son again. He threw away his son to save his ass without hesitation. I told my idiot wife that this was the piece of crap she threw away her family for.


*So what he is going to make you the favor "to not to steal your wife from you and not to sleep with your wife again if he have no consequences".*

My God is one of the few thimes I have gotten angry by reading a post (I have read so many in so many years that is weird to happen), normally nothing surprise me anymore, but the guts of this b*stard, not just threw his son as if he is nothing , but have the cynicism to put himself as if he is the temptation for your wife so he will dissapear making you a favor.

you have to invesgate the whole truth about number of encounters and a lenght, and burn him to his wife, I can't believe this f*cker.

read my previous post to begin to have the whole truth by making polygraphs threats


----------



## manticore

hawx20 said:


> If you call a weasel who cant keep a job, abandoned her when he knocked her up, has never once been a father to her son, cries like a ***** for her to return his child support because hes broke....thats no confident and caring man...thats a spineless POS...


have she told you how the affair began?


----------



## sammy3

Such great advise from all, sure wish I had found TAM so much earlier than I did. I made such grave mistakes so early on, so OP, listen wisely, as some things are going be so crazy.

~sammy


----------



## sandc

hawx20 said:


> Let me give you some insight on the type of "man" and "father" he is.
> 
> He has a 6 month old baby. He slept with my wife when his was pregnant. *Anyways, when I confronted him yesterday, he told me if I never tell his wife he will vanish from our lives and never see his son again.* He threw away his son to save his ass without hesitation. I told my idiot wife that this was the piece of crap she threw away her family for.
> 
> No wonder her own son, who was a total mommas boy prior, told her he was going with me and my family for the holidays because he didnt want to spend them with her.


Fnck that... you're going to tell her aren't you? Let him share a little of your joy.


----------



## hawx20

manticore said:


> have she told you how the affair began?



Yeah, all it took was a compliment on how good she looked from him one day when he came to pick up his son.

I knew she was insecure and weak, but I never imagined it was that bad.


----------



## hawx20

sandc said:


> Fnck that... you're going to tell her aren't you? Let him share a little of your joy.



Oh yeah, I am. However, I'm going to make him keep crapping bricks for a while. I'm thinking it would make an excellent christmas present for him.


----------



## 2ntnuf

-Lawyer
-IC
-"The Healing Heart", "The 180"
-Take care of any joint financial issues by separating them if you can.
-Start checking phone records, email, secret accounts for more 
-VAR if allowed in your state or country. Just to see if it's stopped.
-Don't believe what she is telling you is the truth. Some of it may be. Usually, there's very little truth there. Most of it's down-playing everything and denial, entitlement.

Edit:

-Don't, "show your hand", until it's time

Good luck, whatever you end up doing.


----------



## Refuse to be played

hawx20 said:


> Let me give you some insight on the type of "man" and "father" he is.
> 
> He has a 6 month old baby. He slept with my wife when his was pregnant. *Anyways, when I confronted him yesterday, he told me if I never tell his wife he will vanish from our lives and never see his son again. He threw away his son to save his ass without hesitation.* I told my idiot wife that this was the piece of crap she threw away her family for.
> 
> No wonder her own son, who was a total mommas boy prior, told her he was going with me and my family for the holidays because he didnt want to spend them with her.


When I read this the first thought that popped in my head was to get him to say it again and record it. Then tell his wife anyway and if you so much as get a whiff of him in your life you show your step son how quickly his bio-dad was willing to write him off.

Or just show your step son out right. If what you say about his bio-dad is accurate the kid wouldn't be losing much.


----------



## lordmayhem

hawx20 said:


> She of course wants to work things out and go to therapy. I told her I would, but no promises and I dont see things working out. I'm really not telling her anything. I'm playing it cool, getting all my ducks in a row, and preparing for battle.


Its always interesting when we read this on D-Day, the WS all of a sudden wants to work things out and go to therapy, when before the affair was discovered, the WS acts all entitled and has the "don't give a sh!t" attitude with their BS.

Now, the entitled princess is promising the world in order to make it up to you. From what I've read about your WW, this won't last, because that's her core personality: Selfish and Entitled. You've observed that from her already. She will give you the "love" you for a few days, then it's back to normal. With something like this, she will pretend to be remorseful for a few weeks or months, then it will be back to normal and will want to rugsweep this. 

For a selfish, entitled person like this, it would take a complete lifestyle change in order for R to even be on the table. From what you describe, I don't think she would be capable of that. She's a taker, and all you do is give, give, give. She's been used to that for the past 7 years. It would be extremely difficult for her to change now. 

And supposedly, all it took for her to bang her ex was him telling her she looked good? Ask Thorburn about that. Of course, you can't believe a word of what she says right now. They can swear on the bible, their children's lives, their parent's lives, that they are telling the truth. Yet we always see that real truth is much, much, worse. 

As someone else said, this may not even be her first affair. She's been entitled to her GNOs for years, which you were fine with. She can leave home at any time when her friends call her. You do know that toxic friends always cover up their friends affairs, and even facilitate them by calling them to say "we're going out", and providing alibis. Or, this affair has been going on much longer than last year November, which is also very likely. Remember Trickle Truth.


----------



## Graywolf2

hawx20 said:


> My wife goes out once a week with her friends and I'm fine with that. She keeps wanting me to go out and do something. I like being at home, and I built my mancave. I just dont understand why she wants me to go out so bad.



Do you think she was having a weekly date with her ex? Do you think she wanted you to go out because she was feeling guilty?


----------



## weightlifter

hawx20 said:


> Yeah, all it took was a compliment on how good she looked from him one day when he came to pick up his son.
> 
> I knew she was insecure and weak, but I never imagined it was that bad.


I guarantee there was more to it than this. Ive seen this before. it was the first hit on a brick wall with a sledge hammer. Reminds me of for example RDMU. Started as a in inappropriate comment about 50 shades on a beach. Dont be too suprised if he was fishing for a bit.

Question time from comment to PA?

Does infidelity matter in your state? If yes be careful about sex with her.

quoting you:

_02-26-2013, 08:46 AM 

And before you ask, her having an affair is out. I handle all financials an IT guy so i know the ends and outs of every piece of equipment she has. Her technical skills maxed with logging into facebook everyday. There is no way in hell she could pull it off._

I bet you are having a ton of aha! moments.

Sorry you are here.

I read your other threads.
Were the GNOs hookups or actually GNOs?
Did her affair start before or after your first LD thread?
Did her affair start before or after the above quote?
How overweight are you still?
Weightlifting any?

Sounds like you may already be partly detached. D decision is not necessarily now. Seems like a smart move but...

Your thread has enough scary comparisons to my own situation I may have to look harder again. (Caught an EA Mar 2 2013 at 758A with drumrollll.... An ex. Her ex has a job tho. Half literate hillbilly tho.) 

One consolation if you D. Past 35-40 the sex power dynamic changes remarkably. There was a pretty red haired ~38 year old flirting with me hardat work last night. No I did not reciprocate but damn got to the point of clicking my wedding ring on my IPAD "accidentally" And no there is NOTHING special about my looks other than not fat and have my hair. She was doing the hair playing and everything.

Read my top signature link for a bit of inspiration for the future.


----------



## manticore

hawx20 said:


> Oh yeah, I am. However, I'm going to make him keep crapping bricks for a while. I'm thinking it would make an excellent christmas present for him.


hawx you are noit buying that it was a one time thing right?

because once that they have began and there is no remorse they have no reason to stop, just the thrill and cruel satisfaction of doing something forbiden and scret.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

What does it say about your wife when she cheats with a scumbag like him?? Sounds like she just wants to smooth things over with you to maintain her financial/home life!! Take a step back and make sure she is truly sorry for doing this versus sorry she got caught!!!


----------



## tom67

You should let his w know so she can get STD tests.

But I do like your thinking:lol:


----------



## kristin2349

dontbeused said:


> He told you he will vanish if you don't tell his wife...?
> 
> That is hysterical to me. He can stay if he wants to, but his wife finds out.
> Do not say a word to anyone before you deliver the proof to her, but make sure his wife gets a copy of the evidence you have. OM is not to make any deals with you, screw that POS. Let her find out so she has a chance at being happy with a good man later in her own life, and her child a chance to have a good step dad someday. He gets to have his life blow up, just like yours has. Him sticking around is of no threat to you.
> Do not let your anger become abusive to anyone. Even the wrong words used can be thought of as threatening and abusive behavior, to a court in a divorce proceeding.


I thought that was a typo I thought he said he would vanish if he DID tell his wife. Either way I would think him "vsnishing " would be awesome. And the wife deserves to know right away.


----------



## BetrayedDad

ShootMePlz! said:


> What does it say about your wife when she cheats with a scumbag like him?? Sounds like she just wants to smooth things over with you to maintain her financial/home life!! Take a step back and make sure she is truly sorry for doing this versus sorry she got caught!!!


Isn't this the case 99% of the time?

Cheaters may regret they cheated because of the fall out. They may feel it wasn't worth what they lost only because they got caught. I mean where would this new found remorse be if they didn't? But are they REALLY sorry they did it? Over a long period of time? NOPE because if they had any guilt over it they wouldn't of done it in the first place. 

A spontaneous ONS I could see MAYBE being sorry it happened, weak moment, drunk, whatever but an affair over any amount of time is ALWAYS calculated cruelity. Especially the ones that only stop because they were caught.


----------



## helpandadvice

Sorry to hear your story. I hate this crap and apparently it happens all the time. I did not believe people on TAM when my mess started and I should have. Mine started with an EA and just recently found out it was a PA. My divorce is final in a couple weeks and sorry to say the pain is worse now than ever and it has been going on for 6 months. Really try to follow the advice from here because I did not and it caused me even more pain.

I am really mad right now, but I would say tell everyone what has happened. It made me feel better and gave her some consequences. I would tell the OM wife and ruin his life. He messed up yours and I would screw up his. If he has no consequences, he will not leave your wife alone and will do it to someone else next time. Blow his world up for all of us on here.

Biggest thing is this is not your fault. Whatever happened between you to, she could have handled this a million different other ways. GET IN COUNSELING AT LEAST FOR YOURSELF ASAP. I cannot make it through the week sometimes without talking to her.

Be prepared to lose at least 20 pounds. Divorce Diet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

BetrayedDad said:


> A spontaneous ONS I could see MAYBE being sorry it happened, weak moment, drunk, whatever but an affair over any amount of time is ALWAYS calculated cruelity. Especially the ones that only stop because they were caught.


This is probably the most clear explanation between a ONS and a LTA that I've ever seen. Many people ask, what's the difference, cheating is cheating? THIS is the difference.


----------



## RWB

lordmayhem said:


> Its always interesting when we read this on D-Day, *the WS all of a sudden wants to work things out and go to therapy, when before the affair was discovered, the WS acts all entitled and has the "don't give a sh!t" attitude with their BS.*
> 
> ... Of course, you can't believe a word of what she says right now. *They can swear on the bible, their children's lives, their parent's lives, that they are telling the truth.* Yet we always see that real truth is much, much, worse.
> 
> *As someone else said, this may not even be her first affair... *You do know that toxic friends always cover up their friends affairs, and even facilitate them by calling them to say "we're going out", and providing alibis.


Hawx...

Re-read what LMH wrote here. I was right were you are 4 years ago. I wanted so bad to believe the "best" in what my wife told as the truth at DD. 

Nothing but straight in my face lies. Hear a truth... Cheaters are confirmed liars. In the end, they cannot separate the truth from the lie. It's who they have become. 

I actually witnessed the "Hand on the Bible lie" myself, for real. The cheater is scrambling so hard to salvage the security of what they had they will say and do anything to obtain it.


----------



## workindad

tom67 said:


> You should let his w know so she can get STD tests.
> 
> But I do like your thinking:lol:


I agree, she needs to know so she can take responsible steps and protect her health. If he was stepping out with your wife, he may have been and still be banging others as well.


----------



## 6301

OK. Now you know and the ball is in your court and if your smart you'll use it wisely.

She's been making your life rotten now for how long and IMO enjoying the idea of having your swing from branch to branch to serve her purpose and savoring every moment of it thinking that you would never catch on about her affair.

Now all of a sudden the jig is up and she's got her tits in the ringer and will DO ANYTHING, SAY ANYTHING, PROMISE ANYTHING, to save her own ass. So far she's been one big lie after another so she's hoping that you will be foolish to fall for ONE MORE LIE so save herself from embarrassment and humiliation. That doesn't mean that she's remorseful or sorry. 

After the way she treated you and did everything to emasculate you and then has the nerve to ask for forgiveness you have to ask yourself for what. So she can slowly go back to the same way as before. A leopard doesn't change their spots and IMO she never will change. She is still only trying to save herself at your expense and her actions all this long have proved it to you.

If it was me, I would look at the situation and believe that she has caused too much damage to the marriage and I would never consider trying to change her because these types of people are indestructible and have no problem stepping over anyone to get what they want. 

Get a lawyer, file for divorce and let everyone and I mean everyone know exactly what kind of a devious underhanded person she is. She's earned it and above all deserves it. You have to be as mean, cold and unfeeling as her so she finally learns that she has no right to treat anyone like she treated you. IMO have no mercy because if given a chance, as soon as you turn your back, she'll put another knife in you and do it with out feelings or care. She proved that. You have to remember that.


----------



## warlock07

How are you doing today hawx?


----------



## dontbeused

6301 said:


> OK. Now you know and the ball is in your court and if your smart you'll use it wisely.
> 
> She's been making your life rotten now for how long and IMO enjoying the idea of having your swing from branch to branch to serve her purpose and savoring every moment of it thinking that you would never catch on about her affair.
> 
> Now all of a sudden the jig is up and she's got her tits in the ringer and will DO ANYTHING, SAY ANYTHING, PROMISE ANYTHING, to save her own ass. So far she's been one big lie after another so she's hoping that you will be foolish to fall for ONE MORE LIE so save herself from embarrassment and humiliation. That doesn't mean that she's remorseful or sorry.
> 
> After the way she treated you and did everything to emasculate you and then has the nerve to ask for forgiveness you have to ask yourself for what. So she can slowly go back to the same way as before. A leopard doesn't change their spots and IMO she never will change. She is still only trying to save herself at your expense and her actions all this long have proved it to you.
> 
> If it was me, I would look at the situation and believe that she has caused too much damage to the marriage and I would never consider trying to change her because these types of people are indestructible and have no problem stepping over anyone to get what they want.
> 
> Get a lawyer, file for divorce and let everyone and I mean everyone know exactly what kind of a devious underhanded person she is. She's earned it and above all deserves it. You have to be as mean, cold and unfeeling as her so she finally learns that she has no right to treat anyone like she treated you. IMO have no mercy because if given a chance, as soon as you turn your back, she'll put another knife in you and do it with out feelings or care. She proved that. You have to remember that.


and yet so many a BS are too weak and destroyed to fight. They cling to the thought of R as an emotional lifeline. That is the saddest part for me to see all the time. 
Real strength is not in the staying to work it out. Real strength is not allowing this level of disrespect to be cast upon you.
I understand why people try to R, I do, but IMO it is a lack of strength of the BS. Most BS are beta so it fits right in to their usual motif.


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> How are you doing today hawx?


Thats a funny question for me to answer. I have no idea how i'm really doing. I dont know which emotions are real. I'm twisted inside and I feel like i'm having a civil war with myself.

For the most part, I'm okay. The anger, pain, and disgust are boiling inside me, but I'm somehow able to control it and not let it affect me. However, when I am feeling good, my mind is telling me I should not. Why arent you pissed? Why arent you looking to destroy her? F this! is what my mind keeps saying when I'm feeling fine. When I do start to get down/mad my mind starts telling me to calm down and get control.

So I have no idea what I'm feeling. I'm like a duck on a pond. On the surface it looks calm and peaceful but underneath the water those feet are churning a hundred miles an hour. I have a calm demeanor and you wouldnt tell by looking at me I'm going through the worst thing in my life. Inside, I'm twisted and gutted.

To be honest, being on this forum is what gets me angriest. Reading the replies fills me with rage. Hearing the truth is never easy I guess.

So i'm taking life day by day. I know I'm in the denial stage right now and every decision I make puts me at war with myself. I'm trying to to make decisions based of emotions without the benefit of intellect. 

She of course if talking a fantastic game right now. Telling me she will be the wife/mother/lover she always should have been. When she saw me packing up ready to walk out the door she realized what a horrible, selfish B she had become and how she prioritized her happiness above everyone elses, including the kids. 

I'm not believing her for a second. I want to....believe me I do...but I dont. The hardest thing I've ever had to do was hold it together last night.....my 5 year old came into the room when we were talking and pulled us together....She put her arms around our necks to make us all hug....She told me"mommys sorry for breaking your heart daddy...she's gonna fix it..she promises"....Of course my wife lost it and it took everything I had to not lose it....


----------



## azteca1986

hawx20 said:


> She of course if talking a fantastic game right now. Telling me she will be the wife/mother/lover she always should have been. When she saw me packing up ready to walk out the door she realized what a horrible, selfish B she had become and how she prioritized her happiness above everyone elses, including the kids.


You are right to be sceptical. Your WW realised nothing more than what she was about to lose.



> I'm not believing her for a second. I want to....believe me I do...but I dont.


Good. 



> The hardest thing I've ever had to do was hold it together last night.....my 5 year old came into the room when we were talking and pulled us together....She put her arms around our necks to make us all hug....She told me"mommys sorry for breaking your heart daddy...she's gonna fix it..she promises"....Of course my wife lost it and it took everything I had to not lose it....


Tough one. My son does the same. It does raise a question though. Does this mean that if Daddy can't bring himself to reconcile mummy's betrayal it'll be his fault? When and how did a five year old become so acquainted with your wife's infidelity?

You don't have to do anything now, bar see a lawyer and understand your options. You don't have make any firm decision about your future.


----------



## warlock07

Did she confess to anything more than you found ?

How did you verify that this was the truth ?(This could have been going on for several years)


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> Did she confess to anything more than you found ?


No. I told her I contacted our wireless company to get a copy of all the texts sent over the past 18 months. A buddy of mine can extract deleted texts from phones. I told her I will find the truth once this happens and to confess now since lying would be pointless. She stuck to her story so she is either telling the truth or incredibly stupid.

As far as how my 5 year old got involved....the night i discovered what happened all she saw was daddy mad and mommy crying. She went to defend her mother thinking I was the one hurting her and I told my wife that she better not dare let her defend her. She told my daughter that mommy did a very bad thing and hurt daddys heart but she would fix it....So everyday I hear my daughter tell me those exact words...

Also, there was a very fine line in regards to when and how this all happened. She had a mid life crisis. She joined the gym, hung out with much younger friends, and became the social butterfly and life of everyones party. She was so pleased with herself that her social calendar was so booked and put it ahead of me and the children. She would even show her son how proud she was that she was wanted by all these people and would get invited everywhere. Thats when everything went down hill. Her priorities were working out, hanging out with friends, being a social butterfly on facebook.....once those things were done, then she would watch all her tv shows and if there was any time in the day left, maybe she would throw me and the kids a bone and spend time with us....as long as it was something she wanted to do.

Hell, this woman even had the insane idea of becoming a body fitness champion and join competitions like the younger girls at the gym were doing. She seriously wanted to do that. I told her, you're 40 with a family, they're 22 and single. I told her they can spend 4 hours a day at the gym, you cant. I think she may have really been delusional. She really went off the deep end and had such a need for acceptance. Her worth was based on what others saw in her. Others besides her family I should say. I always knew she was a very weak person emotionally and had very little self esteem. She was so excited that the upper 20 somethings she was hanging out with thought she was cool and wanted to hang out with her. She loved the fact that they were shocked to hear she was 40 and thought she was no older than 30. 

She now says that the shock of losing me and the family made her realize what an idiot she was. She never truly knew how selfish she was this entire time and all that mattered to her was her social status. The kids and I came second to that. I know this affair wasnt about me or anything i was or wasnt doing. This was all her. It was her weakness, her low self esteem, and her desire to feel young and pretty.


----------



## warlock07

A polygraph too. 

Unless she can prove otherwise, i wouldn't believe her. Usually it is innocent until roven guilty but given her track record, she will have to prove to you taht what she told you is the truth


----------



## turnera

So she is seeing a IC now, right?


----------



## Philat

hawx20 said:


> Thats a funny question for me to answer. I have no idea how i'm really doing. I dont know which emotions are real. I'm twisted inside and I feel like i'm having a civil war with myself.
> 
> For the most part, I'm okay. The anger, pain, and disgust are boiling inside me, but I'm somehow able to control it and not let it affect me. However, when I am feeling good, my mind is telling me I should not. Why arent you pissed? Why arent you looking to destroy her? F this! is what my mind keeps saying when I'm feeling fine. When I do start to get down/mad my mind starts telling me to calm down and get control.
> 
> So I have no idea what I'm feeling. I'm like a duck on a pond. On the surface it looks calm and peaceful but underneath the water those feet are churning a hundred miles an hour. I have a calm demeanor and you wouldnt tell by looking at me I'm going through the worst thing in my life. Inside, I'm twisted and gutted.
> 
> To be honest, being on this forum is what gets me angriest. Reading the replies fills me with rage. Hearing the truth is never easy I guess.
> 
> So i'm taking life day by day. I know I'm in the denial stage right now and every decision I make puts me at war with myself. I'm trying to to make decisions based of emotions without the benefit of intellect.
> 
> She of course if talking a fantastic game right now. Telling me she will be the wife/mother/lover she always should have been. When she saw me packing up ready to walk out the door she realized what a horrible, selfish B she had become and how she prioritized her happiness above everyone elses, including the kids.
> 
> *I'm not believing her for a second. I want to....believe me I do...but I dont.* The hardest thing I've ever had to do was hold it together last night.....my 5 year old came into the room when we were talking and pulled us together....She put her arms around our necks to make us all hug....She told me"mommys sorry for breaking your heart daddy...she's gonna fix it..she promises"....Of course my wife lost it and it took everything I had to not lose it....


Keep that disbelief, even if you end up in R and your W keeps to the straight and narrow. It's your weapon against being fooled again and her reminder that you won't tolerate it.


----------



## warlock07

hawx20 said:


> No. I told her I contacted our wireless company to get a copy of all the texts sent over the past 18 months. A buddy of mine can extract deleted texts from phones. I told her I will find the truth once this happens and to confess now since lying would be pointless. She stuck to her story so she is either telling the truth or incredibly stupid.
> 
> As far as how my 5 year old got involved....the night i discovered what happened all she saw was daddy mad and mommy crying. She went to defend her mother thinking I was the one hurting her and I told my wife that she better not dare let her defend her. She told my daughter that mommy did a very bad thing and hurt daddys heart but she would fix it....So everyday I hear my daughter tell me those exact words...
> 
> Also, there was a very fine line in regards to when and how this all happened. She had a mid life crisis. She joined the gym, hung out with much younger friends, and became the social butterfly and life of everyones party. She was so pleased with herself that her social calendar was so booked and put it ahead of me and the children. She would even show her son how proud she was that she was wanted by all these people and would get invited everywhere. Thats when everything went down hill. Her priorities were working out, hanging out with friends, being a social butterfly on facebook.....once those things were done, then she would watch all her tv shows and if there was any time in the day left, maybe she would throw me and the kids a bone and spend time with us....as long as it was something she wanted to do.
> 
> Hell, this woman even had the insane idea of becoming a body fitness champion and join competitions like the younger girls at the gym were doing. She seriously wanted to do that. I told her, you're 40 with a family, they're 22 and single. I told her they can spend 4 hours a day at the gym, you cant. I think she may have really been delusional. She really went off the deep end and had such a need for acceptance. Her worth was based on what others saw in her. Others besides her family I should say. I always knew she was a very weak person emotionally and had very little self esteem. She was so excited that the upper 20 somethings she was hanging out with thought she was cool and wanted to hang out with her. She loved the fact that they were shocked to hear she was 40 and thought she was no older than 30.
> 
> She now says that the shock of losing me and the family made her realize what an idiot she was. She never truly knew how selfish she was this entire time and all that mattered to her was her social status. The kids and I came second to that. I know this affair wasnt about me or anything i was or wasnt doing. This was all her. It was her weakness, her low self esteem, and her desire to feel young and pretty.


Right now, you leaving her will probably threaten her lifestyle(so much free time). So she will tell whatever she needs to tell you. I am not convinced she loves you...It is probably the guilt talking right now

She is sorry she got caught. It is one thing to cheat behind the spouse's back but the way she treated you during the whole thing is utterly despicable. I literally was raging as I read your old threads. She just did not give a f*ck or care about you inspite of you repeatedly tell her what you need. On top of that, she kept cheating on you with her scumbag loser ex while denying you and making you feel like sh!t....


----------



## warlock07

She stuck to her story so she is either telling the truth or incredibly stupid.

She probably is taking the risk that you might not be able to recover the texts. Or the OM(if he is even slightly technologically aware) coached her about secretly sending the messages. These messages do not appear in phone records and use the data plan.(What phone does she use ? Blackberries are notoriously hard to recover from)

Many application these days do not allow you to retrieve the messages once they are gone(ex:snapchat). So she probably could be taking confidence in that.


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

don't leave-----if any one goes it is her


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> Right now, you leaving her will probably threaten her lifestyle(so much free time). So she will tell whatever she needs to tell you. I am not convinced she loves you...It is probably the guilt talking right now
> 
> She is sorry she got caught. It is one thing to cheat behind the spouse's back but the way she treated you during the whole thing is utterly despicable. I literally was raging as I read your old threads. She just did not give a f*ck or care about you inspite of you repeatedly tell her what you need. On top of that, she kept cheating on you with her scumbag loser ex while denying you and making you feel like sh!t....


Trust me, I am there with you. She is talking a fantastic game right now. I dont dare believe it though. I'm a changed man. I told her my wife is dead to me. I got rid of all our married pictures, our rings are gone, and I told her our anniversary date means nothing anymore. I told her the man she was married to is gone too. 

I've laid the rules down. I told her I am the alpha of the house. I told her the only possible way this works is to follow my rules until the days comes that I feel I can love her again (if that day even comes i told her). If at any point she deviates from my plan, I'm gone and taking my child with me and I would destroy her in court.

She is not allowed a cell phone. She canceled her gym membership. She closed her facebook account. She leaves the house solo only to go to work. If she will be late she needs to inform me with an explanation why. She will not be allowed to hang out with friends. I told her you want and Alpha male, you got the ultimate Alpha male sweetheart.

Now I told her I fully expect her to not live up to these rules, even if she says she will. I told her I dont want to live like that and cant imagine she does either but she is insisting she will do what it takes to make things right. She said getting busted and seeing the realization of what was about to happen gave her the epiphany she sorely needed. She said she knows I hate her, she knows I dont trust her, and she knows she screwed up all our lives.

I tell her only time will tell. I am in no way, shape, or form expecting anything other than divorce to come out of this. I am preparing for that day. I am preparing a complete annihilation of my wife in court if the day comes.

However, I will give her one chance to prove me wrong. One. If she deviates in the slightest way, i'm gone without hesitation. So i sit here now being an ever cautious skeptic. I am preparing for war, expecting the worst, but taking the slight chance that the best might come out of it. 



turnera said:


> So she is seeing a IC now, right?


I told her she will handle setting this all up. Which she did. We have an appt in a week with a MC. I also told her she will got see a therapist on her own because...damn, that girl has issues


----------



## LostViking

I would make her sleep in a separate bedroom. 

At some point she's going to pull the sex card on you and try to seduce you. Sex is a woman's weapon. Don't fall for it. Make sure that she goes and gets a full STD screening. 

She starved you for sex and affection for so long, I don't know how you could ever want to touch her again after what she did. Man this is a tough one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> She stuck to her story so she is either telling the truth or incredibly stupid.
> 
> She probably is taking the risk that you might not be able to recover the texts. Or the OM(if he is even slightly technologically aware) coached her about secretly sending the messages. These messages do not appear in phone records and use the data plan.(What phone does she use ? Blackberries are notoriously hard to recover from)
> 
> Many application these days do not allow you to retrieve the messages once they are gone(ex:snapchat). So she probably could be taking confidence in that.


The OM is about as dumb and you could imagine. She couldnt install something like that if you were standing over her showing her step by step.

She had an iphone and we bought my stepson a phone a few months ago. My wife told me back when we bought it that now his dad could stop texting her and can text him directly when he came to pick him up so she wouldnt have to talk to him. So, there should be no texts incoming or outgoing from her line. Now if I see a ton of texts coming and going, i dont need to know whats on them, that answers everything.

Lets also just say that my buddy has "special tools" not available to most people to recover info from phones. She knows this.


----------



## LostViking

The eggheads here can tell you more specifically, but there is an app available for iPhones that forwards every text she sends and receives to your phone. And there is also that one app that allows you to track her iPhone so you know where she is at all times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

You already underestimated her once like LM pointed out. Don't do that mistake again. She is far more clever than you give her credit for. She had you running in circles all this time. 

You don't really know her as much as you think you do. She is a very skilled manipulator. If you haven't, read your old threads again. She knows how to manipulate and use people.



> The OM is about as dumb and you could imagine. She couldnt install something like that if you were standing over her showing her step by step.


That was the image she wanted to project to you. These apps are easy as they come...

I am not sure which thread it was but the BS found the texting app hidden as a different application. It doesn't take much to learn about this stuff if they are sufficiently motivated


----------



## hawx20

LostViking said:


> I would make her sleep in a separate bedroom.
> 
> At some point she's going to pull the sex card on you and try to seduce you. Sex is a woman's weapon. Don't fall for it. Make sure that she goes and gets a full STD screening.
> 
> She starved you for sex and affection for so long, I don't know how you could ever want to touch her again after what she did. Man this is a tough one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah i'm a horny bastard so this is a hard one...(thats what she said)....aww i still have my sense of humor through all this :smthumbup:

part of me once to F her just to see how it feels. Part of me cant stand to touch her. The good thing about being a man is I can have sex with someone and not get emotional about it. Just looking to stick it into something and i dont care if its her or the woman next door.

But yeah, right now i dont know if i will ever have sex with her again, even when she throws herself at me


----------



## LostViking

Work out like mad, eat well, get buffed up and make her desire you again. Then reject her. Let her see how it feels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

hawx20 said:


> Trust me, I am there with you. She is talking a fantastic game right now. I dont dare believe it though. I'm a changed man. I told her my wife is dead to me. I got rid of all our married pictures, our rings are gone, and I told her our anniversary date means nothing anymore. I told her the man she was married to is gone too.
> 
> I've laid the rules down. I told her I am the alpha of the house. I told her the only possible way this works is to follow my rules until the days comes that I feel I can love her again (if that day even comes i told her). If at any point she deviates from my plan, I'm gone and taking my child with me and I would destroy her in court.
> 
> She is not allowed a cell phone. She canceled her gym membership. She closed her facebook account. She leaves the house solo only to go to work. If she will be late she needs to inform me with an explanation why. She will not be allowed to hang out with friends. I told her you want and Alpha male, you got the ultimate Alpha male sweetheart.
> 
> Now I told her I fully expect her to not live up to these rules, even if she says she will. I told her I dont want to live like that and cant imagine she does either but she is insisting she will do what it takes to make things right. She said getting busted and seeing the realization of what was about to happen gave her the epiphany she sorely needed. She said she knows I hate her, she knows I dont trust her, and she knows she screwed up all our lives.
> 
> I tell her only time will tell. I am in no way, shape, or form expecting anything other than divorce to come out of this. I am preparing for that day. I am preparing a complete annihilation of my wife in court if the day comes.
> 
> However, I will give her one chance to prove me wrong. One. If she deviates in the slightest way, i'm gone without hesitation. So i sit here now being an ever cautious skeptic. I am preparing for war, expecting the worst, but taking the slight chance that the best might come out of it.
> 
> 
> 
> I told her she will handle setting this all up. Which she did. We have an appt in a week with a MC. I also told her she will got see a therapist on her own because...damn, that girl has issues



TBH, that sounds like a control freak, not an alpha. I am not trying to offend you here. That is no way to have a relationship.


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> You already underestimated her once like LM pointed out. Don't do that mistake again. She is far more clever than you give her credit for. She had you running in circles all this time.
> 
> You don't really know her as much as you think you do. She is a very skilled manipulator. If you haven't, read your old threads again. She knows how to manipulate and use people.


No she isnt that skilled. All this was on me. I was blind to it because I didnt want to believe. Every issue she is confessing to I knew was going on. Hell, I knew....i really knew something was going on with them....I just never had the proof. She didnt manipulate me and she didnt fool me. I fooled myself. I knew something was wrong but I wanted to think it was some innocent issue. Hell, to be honest, maybe I didnt want to really know what was going on.

But no....she didnt fool me for a second. I was on to her for a very long time. You only get part of the story on my posts. I fooled myself. That was my mistake. Maybe thats why I'm taking this as good as I am. It wasnt all that unexpected.

She confessed alot of reasons why she did the things she did, not just about the affair. She confessed about the lack of sex and how it was passionless. She did it to shut me up so I wouldnt complain about her gym time, friends time, whatever time....I knew this. I knew this all along.

You guys were right all along. I turned into the ultimate beta. I thought I was doing was a good husband was supposed to do. I was wrong. So, no, I will not give her the slightest bit of credit for fooling or manipulating me. I allowed it. I knew what she was doing and I did nothing. Well that man is gone and he will never come back. I hate myself for being so weak and ignorant.


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## LostViking

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Go online and buy it. It will change your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> TBH, that sounds like a control freak, not an alpha. I am not trying to offend you here. That is no way to have a relationship.


I know. These are temporary. I dont expect her to live like this long and I told her I wouldnt want her to. These are short term limits at least until the shock of this ordeal wears off. Again, I have no expectations of keeping this up for very long, I dont want to live with someone and force these rules upon them. I'm going to test her hard and see if she breaks. I cant trust her word so I want to test her sincerity. Honestly, considering what she did, this is a small price for her to pay and half of them were her idea.



lostviking said:


> Work out like mad, eat well, get buffed up and make her desire you again. Then reject her. Let her see how it feels.


I'm working out like mad. Trying to eat well despite the total lack of appetite. I have a feeling our sex scores are about to reverse. We'll see what that brings.


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## azteca1986

hawx20 said:


> I know. These are temporary. I dont expect her to live like this long and I told her I wouldnt want her to. These are short term limits at least until the shock of this ordeal wears off. Again, I have no expectations of keeping this up for very long, I dont want to live with someone and force these rules upon them. I'm going to test her hard and see if she breaks. I cant trust her word so I want to test her sincerity. Honestly, considering what she did, this is a small price for her to pay and half of them were her idea.


Very good. Her acceptance of these temporary strictures should help you gauge if she really means "I'll do anything..."

I liked the fact you told her that you expect divorce and are preparing for it. Too many BS still reeling from their discovery of betrayal do anything to grasp a marriage that no longer exists.

You've made all the right moves as far as I can see. Have you talked to a lawyer, just to see the lay of the land?


----------



## Hicks

She moved away from being a wife and a mother and became a self centered ***** a long time ago.

She confessed to sleeping with a deadbeat loser ex.... 

Likely she's been sleeping around with others... that fits more than a long term affair with her ex.


----------



## hawx20

azteca1986 said:


> Very good. Her acceptance of these temporary strictures should help you gauge if she really means "I'll do anything..."
> 
> I liked the fact you told her that you expect divorce and are preparing for it. Too many BS still reeling from their discovery of betrayal do anything to grasp a marriage that no longer exists.
> 
> You've made all the right moves as far as I can see. Have you talked to a lawyer, just to see the lay of the land?


Thanks. Yes I have spoken with an attorney, and even though I didnt like what they said about some things, I still like my chances in court. Honestly I dont care about the house or money, I just want my daughter. Like I said, if it comes to divorce, I will destroy her. She is weak, easily frustrated, and is no fighter. I on the other hand would be like the freaking Terminator. I wont stop...ever, until my goal is accomplished.


I am going to be perfectly honest here. My philosophy on cheating, which I stated in someone else thread before finding out about her affair, was to have a zero tolerance for this. 
I couldnt imagine ever getting over it and ever staying with a woman who cheated. I never did it with girlfriends and I sure as hell wasnt going to do it with a wife.

Now that it has happened to me, of course, its not so cut and dry. I will never forget and I will never forgive. I am strong enough to overcome this. If she truly did have an epiphany, truly seen the error of her ways, and truly wants to be the woman/wife she should have always been.....then I can see R happening. I could/would spend the rest of my life with the woman she claims she wants to be.

That being said, I dont expect it to happen. I dont believe she will become that woman. I fully expect her to go back to her ways once she feels like the dust has settled. My life has made me into the ultimate pessimist. I always expect the worst and prepare for it. If/When good happens, its a fantastic bonus. But I would rather be prepared when the worst hits than be prepared for the best and have the worst happen.

So thats how I am taking my life, day by day. I fully expect this to end at anytime, and if it doesnt, then it will be a good surprise. In the meantime, I lie her in wait. Preparing. Waiting. Getting ready for war. I'll give a few years to see how this goes. I'm still relatively young, and if things do go bad, i'll come out stronger, wiser, more prepared, and my daughter will be older and able to understand what her mother did and why we are leaving.


----------



## Iloveprada

Hawx20,
I am so sorry you are going through this. I know exactly what you are going through. Been there with my first husband. How long have you guys been together? Just keep your distance right now until you decide if you want to stay and work things out or leave. Once things are said, it is hard to take them back so I wouldn't say too much right away.


----------



## hawx20

Iloveprada said:


> Hawx20,
> I am so sorry you are going through this. I know exactly what you are going through. Been there with my first husband. How long have you guys been together? Just keep your distance right now until you decide if you want to stay and work things out or leave. Once things are said, it is hard to take them back so I wouldn't say too much right away.



7 years as of last month. I just remembered when replying to you that we fought on our anniversary. Cant remember what about so it was probably something stupid. Didnt even go eat anywhere special. Wonder how much guilt played into that. Hmmm, never hit me before about that day.

As far as your other point, truth be told, I would like to work it out, if nothing else for the kids. They are just as much victims and I am. If she truly wants to be the woman I thought I was marrying, then I can see getting past this and growing old together.

I just cant stress enough how if she ever resorts back to her old ways, even the slightest, I will not hesitate to leave her. 
All I want to do is tell my daughter one day that her daddy did everything humanly possible to keep the family together.


----------



## timedoesnothealall

I got swept up in the beta tide. Bought my WW flowers, a diamond pendant, started doing the house cleaning and cooking ... you name it. This afforded her more time to be with OM as well as confirm to her that I was a limp dish rag.

By pure accident, I did two things: First, through my employment, I was entitled to a free legal consult. When she got wind of it, panic for her! Secondly, I got so "tired" of her manipulation and lies that I became indifferent to her. Indifference is a very powerful tool to use on a WS, believe me. It was only when she sensed that I was slipping away that she started to turn the corner. Fawning, begging, trying to reason when WS is running on emotion ... none of these things works. Ever.


----------



## Tobyboy

Hicks said:


> She moved away from being a wife and a mother and became a self centered ***** a long time ago.
> 
> She confessed to sleeping with a deadbeat loser ex....
> 
> Likely she's been sleeping around with others... that fits more than a long term affair with her ex.


She didn't confess...she got busted!!! But, I agree with you that more than likely she upgraded after f*cking the idiot ex! Prepare yourself for TT.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

hawx20 said:


> Now that it has happened to me, of course, its not so cut and dry. I will never forget and I will never forgive. I am strong enough to overcome this. If she truly did have an epiphany, truly seen the error of her ways, and truly wants to be the woman/wife she should have always been.....then I can see R happening. I could/would spend the rest of my life with the woman she claims she wants to be.
> 
> That being said, I dont expect it to happen. I dont believe she will become that woman. I fully expect her to go back to her ways once she feels like the dust has settled. My life has made me into the ultimate pessimist. I always expect the worst and prepare for it. If/When good happens, its a fantastic bonus. But I would rather be prepared when the worst hits than be prepared for the best and have the worst happen.


You not listening to your gut AGAIN. You're letting your heart cloud your judgment. You're leading yourself into a life of limbo and false R. Do you REALLY believe she had an epifany? Of course not. It's ridiculous. She got CAUGHT and now's she's covering her a$$. She WILL go back to her old ways once the dust settles. You KNOW this. LISTEN to your gut. LISTEN to it! 

When has your gut ever been wrong? Your heart choose to ignore it. Tell it to shut the hell up. The alpha is in charge now. You're just going to waste more time better spent moving on with your life. I know it sucks but don't be a fool. She played you for the fool. All you will do is confirm what she always suspected. That your too much of a pansy to do anything. 

You want to know if she's REALLY legit? Divorce her first, then see if she sticks around. I promise you she won't. Or be tormented with the idea that she got to bang another man, a lessor man, denying you basic physical needs just to stay loyal to him AND got away with it scott free. Your choice.


----------



## kristin2349

hawx20 said:


> 7 years as of last month. I just remembered when replying to you that we fought on our anniversary. Cant remember what about so it was probably something stupid. Didnt even go eat anywhere special. Wonder how much guilt played into that. Hmmm, never hit me before about that day.
> 
> As far as your other point, truth be told, I would like to work it out, if nothing else for the kids. They are just as much victims and I am. If she truly wants to be the woman I thought I was marrying, then I can see getting past this and growing old together.
> 
> I just cant stress enough how if she ever resorts back to her old ways, even the slightest, I will not hesitate to leave her.
> All I want to do is tell my daughter one day that her daddy did everything humanly possible to keep the family together.


One: you will have to take life in R day by day. Because you'll never be quite sure again. No matter how many safeguards you put in place that she's not "that person" at her core. She fooled you once, shame on her.

Two: I get you think you are providing your daughter (who's far too young to be dealing with any of this) with a great example. But you might end up sending a message (when she's old enough to get it) that this is what "love is". Anger, chaos, fighting, crying, hurting. It will be wired with her definition of "love". Just something to consider.

You seem to be swinging from one emotion to the next (totally normal). But I would not share any hope with her right now. WAY too soon. Just my opinion.

Good luck, whatever you decide.


----------



## hawx20

BetrayedDad said:


> You not listening to your gut AGAIN. You're letting your heart cloud your judgment. You're leading yourself into a life of limbo and false R. Do you REALLY believe she had an epifany? Of course not. It's ridiculous. She got CAUGHT and now's she's covering her a$$. She WILL go back to her old ways once the dust settles. You KNOW this. LISTEN to your gut. LISTEN to it!
> 
> When has your gut ever been wrong? Your heart choose to ignore it. Tell it to shut the hell up. The alpha is in charge now. You're just going to waste more time better spent moving on with your life. I know it sucks but don't be a fool. She played you for the fool. All you will do is confirm what she always suspected. That your too much of a pansy to do anything.
> 
> You want to know if she's REALLY legit? Divorce her first, then see if she sticks around. I promise you she won't. Or be tormented with the idea that she got to bang another man, a lessor man, denying you basic physical needs just to stay loyal to him AND got away with it scott free. Your choice.


This was my first reaction and maybe even the right one. You sound more upset than I am  .... Everyone is different and , right or wrong, this is the course I feel I need to take. Oh an believe me, regardless of what happens, shes not getting away with anything scott free. If we do R, she will go through hell, if we dont, she will have a mortal enemy and will regret the day she did this.

In no way am I going into this saying "aw shucks baby, its okay, i still love you"....NO....to get to R, shes going to have to go through hell...



timedoesnothealall said:


> I got so "tired" of her manipulation and lies that I became indifferent to her. Indifference is a very powerful tool to use on a WS, believe me. It was only when she sensed that I was slipping away that she started to turn the corner.


This is exactly how I feel. I dont care what happens either way. I will be fine either way. Cant say the same for her. Of course she is going out of her way to do things for me, touch me, be as loving as possible. Only pisses me off more. I dont want any of it right now. I'm immune to her new affection toward me. Whether or not she turned the corner, I dont know. I'm just not ready to decide on my future until I have a clear mind that can make a rational decison without the cloudiness of my angered emotions getting in the way.

I totally feel what betrayeddad was saying. Reading his post fired me up. I feel your pain in your words. Like I said, maybe you're right. I'm pretty damn sure you are. But I cant live with myself if I dont at least try.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

hawx20 said:


> I couldnt imagine ever getting over it and ever staying with a woman who cheated. I never did it with girlfriends and I sure as hell wasnt going to do it with a wife.


Considering looking into what sounds like a pattern. Not blaming you for their actions, but see if you have personal blinders for certain things that might lead you to missing some red flags.


----------



## Tobyboy

MC next week? Save your money. Schedule a polygraph for Monday....she'll crack this weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

hawx20 said:


> This was my first reaction and maybe even the right one. You sound more upset than I am  .... Everyone is different and , right or wrong, this is the course I feel I need to take. Oh an believe me, regardless of what happens, shes not getting away with anything scott free. If we do R, she will go through hell, if we dont, she will have a mortal enemy and will regret the day she did this.
> 
> In no way am I going into this saying "aw shucks baby, its okay, i still love you"....NO....to get to R, shes going to have to go through hell...
> 
> I totally feel what betrayeddad was saying. Reading his post fired me up. I feel your pain in your words. Like I said, maybe you're right. I'm pretty damn sure you are. But I cant live with myself if I dont at least try.


From what I've read, your spouse is very similar to mine. You do what you feel you have to but expect the worst to happen. My ex WANTED to change too and I believe she did but she lacks the ability. Nobody WANTS to be selfish person. They just are. 

Put it this way. What do you think cheater's cheat? Because it's easy. She is not going to move heaven and earth for you. Cause if she had that ability she would of tried to move heaven and earth to fix things instead of taking the EASY way out, being a coward and cheating.

You're more than welcome to find out the hard way. What better test is there? File for divorce, make her give you everything you want then see if she still wants to fix things and have her earn her way back. I don't know about you but it I f***ed up that bad and REALLY wanted to make things right I would do ANYTHING. Worst case she shows her true colors and you get to walk away with a sweethart deal. Nothing to lose on your end. Up to you. Straight R imo is getting off too easy.

And definitely do a poly. I PROMISE you this is the tip of the iceburg. My guess is there were other instances and even men. In fact, I think most cheaters are repeat offenders. Most people just never find out about the others. Only the ones whom they were caught with.


----------



## hawx20

BetrayedDad said:


> From what I've read, your spouse is very similar to mine. You do what you feel you have to but expect the worst to happen. My ex WANTED to change too and I believe she did but she lacks the ability. Nobody WANTS to be selfish person. They just are.
> 
> Put it this way. What do you think cheater's cheat? She is not going to move heaven and earth for you. Cause if she had that ability she would of tried to move heaven and earth to fix things instead of taking the EASY way out, being a coward and cheating.
> 
> You're more than welcome to find out the hard way. What better test is there? File for divorce, make her give you everything you want then see if she still wants to fix things and have her earn her way back. I don't know about you but it I f***ed up that bad and REALLY wanted to make things right I would do ANYTHING. Worst case she shows her true colors and you get to walk away with a sweethart deal. Nothing to lose on your end. Up to you. Straight R imo is getting off too easy.
> 
> And definitely do a poly. I PROMISE you this is the tip of the iceburg. My guess is there were other instances and even men. In fact, I think most cheaters are repeat offenders. Most people just never find out about the others. Only the ones whom they were caught with.


I know you speak the truth. I am going into this expecting the worst. In fact I expect her to screw up before I can even get my mind clear. At the end of the day, I want to make sure I left no stone unturned. She cant hurt me anymore. The damage has been done. 

I'm even okay with losing a bit of time. I'm in the process of improving myself. My main goals during this time are spending as much time with my kids and improving me. She is a distant third. I'm not where I want to be going into a divorce. In a few short months, I will be. The anger will not go away, the hate and disgust wont either. However, I will be in top physical shape, stronger, confident, and more prepared if I wait. 

At this point, I dont have a whole lot to lose by waiting. I'm not going to fall for words and empty promises. I do have a plan, which does require time. As a side effect, she can benefit from that time if she chooses. She may very well not be able to change from the selfish B she is. If thats the case, it wont take very long for her to return to form. 

I hear you, and I take your words to heart. This hit me out of the blue. I am not prepared in any way for a divorce right now. I plan to spend the next few days/weeks/months preparing myself.

So either way, the time will be spent properly. This marriage will either be on its way to being saved or I will be mentally and physically prepared for a war of a divorce. The one thing that will not happen by waiting is me still being unprepared and her resorting back to her old ways leaving me stuck right where i am now.

Either way, its a wi


----------



## warlock07

hawx20 said:


> No she isnt that skilled. All this was on me. I was blind to it because I didnt want to believe. Every issue she is confessing to I knew was going on. Hell, I knew....i really knew something was going on with them....I just never had the proof. She didnt manipulate me and she didnt fool me. I fooled myself. I knew something was wrong but I wanted to think it was some innocent issue. Hell, to be honest, maybe I didnt want to really know what was going on.
> 
> But no....she didnt fool me for a second. I was on to her for a very long time. You only get part of the story on my posts. I fooled myself. That was my mistake. Maybe thats why I'm taking this as good as I am. It wasnt all that unexpected.
> 
> She confessed alot of reasons why she did the things she did, not just about the affair. She confessed about the lack of sex and how it was passionless. She did it to shut me up so I wouldnt complain about her gym time, friends time, whatever time....I knew this. I knew this all along.
> 
> You guys were right all along. I turned into the ultimate beta. I thought I was doing was a good husband was supposed to do. I was wrong. So, no, I will not give her the slightest bit of credit for fooling or manipulating me. I allowed it. I knew what she was doing and I did nothing. Well that man is gone and he will never come back. I hate myself for being so weak and ignorant.


Yeah, most male BS go through this phase. The self loathing for being an fool and not being able to notice the affair much earlier. I disagree with this entire post.

Hawx, please read the newbie thread if you haven't. You gave her the benefit of doubt. You were from a place of good intentions. The cheating and lying is all on her. How would a relationship exist if you were suspicious of everything she said or did ? Read the newbie post and the affair stages immediately. It will explain some of the emotions you are feeling right now


----------



## sandc

Never ever underestimate the ferocity with which a woman will fight to keep her children. She may seem weak now, but if the thinks she'll lose custody of your daughter, she will surprise you with how dirty she will fight to retain that custody.


----------



## warlock07

> I just cant stress enough how if she ever resorts back to her old ways, even the slightest, I will not hesitate to leave her.


This is not realistic scenario. Here is what you do hawx. Take a few days off from making any decisions. No R, no D, no nothing. This is a very traumatic event and you are in no way to make a long term decision. vent here or write your own private journal. But take time.

Did she tell you how she made time for the OM in the middle of all this ? Did they have sex in your house ?


----------



## barbados

hawx20 said:


> Just found out my wife has been cheating on me for the past year....I'm numb and have no clue what to do....my god....somebody help me with advice


This was your first post from 11/18. All of FOUR DAYS AGO !!! And you already making talking R ?!?!


----------



## Knobbers

I wish you the best brother, but in my opinion you don't know everything. Please make her take a poly or bluff one. From skimming some of your other threads, I don't think it was one time or one guy.

From where I'm standing, I wouldn't be shocked if she had a FWB at the gym and possibly some ONS with guys she met at GNOs. She seems completely shallow and narcissistic, on top of that she seems very insecure with herself. That is a deadly ****tail when mixed with all of her activities and her disregarding of you on a consistent basis.

How can you even consider R when you have no clue how deep this hole goes? Are you even trying to dig deeper? Have you told her a poly is a must? I'm betting you will get a lot more of the story as the poly date nears and wont have to go through with it.

I'm stoked you are manning up and you seem to be confident in yourself. What you are going through is true adversity and your attitude is showing you have a ton of heart and guts. On the other hand, you seem blind to the possibility that she may have had multiple partners. I don't want to add more to your plate than you already have, but something isn't sitting right with me.

The way she has treated you tells me she isn't in love with you at all, even now I think she is manipulating you big time. You just can't flip a switch and start loving somebody you seemed to be disgusted by for so long. Her epiphany seems like BS, there is something in this for her, but what is it? My uneducated guess is one reason this is happening is because she is petrified of all the skeletons you might find in her closet, so if she acts like this one mistake you caught her on is so devastating you might not dig deeper. 

I just don't want to see a good guy hurt, especially a good father. Please dig a bit deeper if you can, you know already that you can't start a true R until you know everything. I'm betting you don't know close to everything, but I'm wrong far more than right.

Just wanted to lend my support, good luck friend. Thanks for being a man of high character and what seems to be a great father. There aren't enough men like you in the world.


----------



## kristin2349

barbados said:


> This was your first post from 11/18. All of FOUR DAYS AGO !!! And you already making talking R ?!?!


Yeah, there have been several cases of rapid resolution here lately:scratchhead:

There is great advice to be had just browsing old threads. I found tons without posting and asking for help. I'm almost 6 months post D-Day and still have a hard time knowing what to do...But everyone is different.

Hawx has said he has embraced his Alpha side and he will be fine. Peace out.


----------



## sidney2718

warlock07 said:


> TBH, that sounds like a control freak, not an alpha. I am not trying to offend you here. That is no way to have a relationship.


Classifying it doesn't matter. What I think matters in the end is trust. And I think that the only way to learn to trust WW again is, at least at the start, check up on everything. As an example letting her go out for an evening with "friends" leaves one with no real way to check where she is and what she's doing.

So from my point of view there is only the skeleton of a relationship now. That can't change until trust is regained.

Sure, at some point the "controls" will have to start coming off. H will know when that is.


----------



## MEM2020

Hawx,
You need to see a therapist for individual counseling. 
And you need to go back to the lawyer for a postnuptial agreement. If your wife WON'T sign a postnup, then she doesn't expect the marriage to last. And will be because she knows she isn't totally committed. 

You talk about how tough you are, but the truth is. I seriously doubt you have the resolve to even demand a postnup and protect your assets. And that is sad considering that you are genuinely concerned for your daughters welfare. If you let your wife screw you financially, which will get easier (it's very formulaic in family court) as the years pass, you are letting her screw both you and your daughter. 

If you want to stop being your wife's celibate paycheck mule, you start with a tough postnup. Everything else is window dressing. 


QUOTE=hawx20;5661561]I know you speak the truth. I am going into this expecting the worst. In fact I expect her to screw up before I can even get my mind clear. At the end of the day, I want to make sure I left no stone unturned. She cant hurt me anymore. The damage has been done. 

I'm even okay with losing a bit of time. I'm in the process of improving myself. My main goals during this time are spending as much time with my kids and improving me. She is a distant third. I'm not where I want to be going into a divorce. In a few short months, I will be. The anger will not go away, the hate and disgust wont either. However, I will be in top physical shape, stronger, confident, and more prepared if I wait. 

At this point, I dont have a whole lot to lose by waiting. I'm not going to fall for words and empty promises. I do have a plan, which does require time. As a side effect, she can benefit from that time if she chooses. She may very well not be able to change from the selfish B she is. If thats the case, it wont take very long for her to return to form. 

I hear you, and I take your words to heart. This hit me out of the blue. I am not prepared in any way for a divorce right now. I plan to spend the next few days/weeks/months preparing myself.

So either way, the time will be spent properly. This marriage will either be on its way to being saved or I will be mentally and physically prepared for a war of a divorce. The one thing that will not happen by waiting is me still being unprepared and her resorting back to her old ways leaving me stuck right where i am now.

Either way, its a wi[/QUOTE]


----------



## Nucking Futs

hawx20, I'm curious. People keep telling you to get a polygraph but when you reply you skip right over that part. Do you have a problem with doing a polygraph?


----------



## the guy

Dude, if your going to forgive your old lady you need to know what you are forgiving her for.

And why wait for her to go back to her old ways when she can do her own heavy lifting to affair proof her marriage.

Being a perfect husband won't teach her the tools she needs for the preventive maintence she needs in having a healthy marriage.

What ever her phucking issues are...beit attention, entitlement, or sabotaging good things in her life....she needs to face them head on and fix this unhealthy behavior.

Her betrayal isn't about a crappy marriage...its how she handles a crappy marriage and chooses deciet to deal with it.

Your old lady has a lot of work infront of her!


----------



## the guy

Your marriage is toast if you can't forgive.

The both of you have alot of work in front of you.

If you think divorce is hard...R is a real b1tch!

So with all this said, Your chick has her own heavy lifting to do,just like you have your own lifting to do in fogiving her.

Cuz throwing this in her face for the next ten years won't work, but rewarding her for her healthier action might save this.

But in the end it's all about her affair proofing the marriage and you having the grace to forgive her and rewarding her for her efforts.

Now that you are a betrayed spouse...meeting your needs becomes a whole new ball game for her. In the same breath, you are now looking at a completely different girl then the one you married and the new needs she has.

In short, R is no picinic but it does happen and the rewards has to out wieght the intence effort it takes. With out reward then why bother?


----------



## Aerith

hawx20 said:


> This was my first reaction and maybe even the right one. You sound more upset than I am  .... Everyone is different and , right or wrong, this is the course I feel I need to take. Oh an believe me, regardless of what happens, shes not getting away with anything scott free. If we do R, she will go through hell, if we dont, she will have a mortal enemy and will regret the day she did this.
> 
> In no way am I going into this saying "aw shucks baby, its okay, i still love you"....NO....to get to R, shes going to have to go through hell...


You will be next to her during R - so, pretty much in the same hell...

Take a pause before making a lifechanging decision - right now all emotions are raw...you are mad at her as you want revenge so badly...


----------



## RWB

sandc said:


> Never ever underestimate the ferocity with which a woman will fight to keep her children. *She may seem weak now, but if the thinks she'll lose custody of your daughter, she will surprise you with how dirty she will fight to retain that custody.*



Hawx,

This is so true. Right now she is in defense mode. She doesn't want to lose you and the security, her memory of being a "good" wife and mother.

However...

When she is faced with divorce and no other option that remorseful, loving persona will most likely change. Remember she may be a weak person, but her Lawyer can be the Pit Bull.


----------



## turnera

MEM11363 said:


> Hawx,
> You need to see a therapist for individual counseling.
> And you need to go back to the lawyer for a postnuptial agreement. If your wife WON'T sign a postnup, then she doesn't expect the marriage to last. And will be because she knows she isn't totally committed.


Worth repeating.


----------



## hawx20

the guy said:


> Your marriage is toast if you can't forgive.
> 
> The both of you have alot of work in front of you.
> 
> If you think divorce is hard...R is a real b1tch!
> 
> So with all this said, Your chick has her own heavy lifting to do,just like you have your own lifting to do in fogiving her.
> 
> Cuz throwing this in her face for the next ten years won't work, but rewarding her for her healthier action might save this.
> 
> But in the end it's all about her affair proofing the marriage and you having the grace to forgive her and rewarding her for her efforts.
> 
> Now that you are a betrayed spouse...meeting your needs becomes a whole new ball game for her. In the same breath, you are now looking at a completely different girl then the one you married and the new needs she has.
> 
> In short, R is no picinic but it does happen and the rewards has to out wieght the intence effort it takes. With out reward then why bother?


True.

I told her the old marriage is done. I took away our rings, our anniversary date means nothing, and I ripped up our wedding pictures. That wedding, that woman, is gone.

I told her if this does work out, when ever we decide that we reached a point where I can tell her I love her again (or if I even ever do)....then we can buy new rings, renew vows, whatever. 

I dont think you ever forgive something like this and I know I wont forget. However, I know I can get past it....if, and only if, she becomes a woman who is worth it. I have no idea what she is right now. The woman she is being right now, and says she wants to be, is the woman I fell in love with and was married happily to for a few years. The woman she became, and was unhappy with is what I want to avoid.

I told her the questions isnt if I can get over this. The question is, is she worth it? Thats the 64 million dollar question that remains to be answered.


I appreciate everyones advice. I really do. Everyone is different and no one truly knows the whole dynamic other than myself.

I really do not have any expectations right now. I have to do what I feel is right, even if some of you think I'm making a mistake. I know that R is going to be hell for both of us. I told her this and want to make sure she understands. I'm basically an unstable ticking time bomb. I can be fine one minute, and filled with anger the next. It also doesnt take much to feel anger towards her, the slightest thing will do it.

I'm so hardened by life that I can handle anything, short of (knock on wood) something happening to my kids. 

I'm going to give R a shot. We have counseling set up and I am going to have her go to to counseling for herself also. Its going to be a very long road and R may never happen. I have no expectations for the future. If it does happen, she will have to earn it in every way possible. Whatever happens, trust will not be earned so easily and the words she is saying today I take with a huge grain of salt.

I'm in hell right now. If she wants this to work, shes going to have to come into hell and fight her way out. I just feel, for me, this is the best option for right now. Some of you may disagree and believe I'm making a mistake, but I have to do what I feel is the best choice right now. 

Even though some of you may think i'm stupid to give her a chance, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing for my best interest. Believe me, I'm not going into this all gullible and blind. I have my proof, I have all my documentation. I will store it in a safe place in case its needed. She can only add more fuel to the fire if it doesnt work out. If it does end in D, then I can go in there and prove to the judge that not only did I try everything possible to keep this family together, but more importantly I am the better provider, better parent, and the one with morals. I know a man faces an uphill battle with child custody in court. If the worst happens and R doesnt work, well I want to make sure I go into that D fully armed.


----------



## turnera

It's always admirable to try to save a marriage if it's a good one, worth saving. Just be honest with yourself at all times.


----------



## LostViking

She never fully detached from her ex. She has continued to love him since you married her. POS he may be, there is something about him that keeps her connected. It may be the trash element they seem to have in common. She probably thinks you are out of her league.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

How is your wife reacting these days ?

Did you get any more truth ? You know you don't have the complete truth..


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> She never fully detached from her ex. She has continued to love him since you married her. POS he may be, there is something about him that keeps her connected. It may be the trash element they seem to have in common. She probably thinks you are out of her league.


Seems to be a common thing with cheaters. They get too easily hung up on people and have a hard time letting go. So they cake eat instead of choosing.


----------



## hawx20

BetrayedDad said:


> Seems to be a common thing with cheaters. They get too easily hung up on people and have a hard time letting go. So they cake eat instead of choosing.



Aww man when I saw you posted on here my butt clenched up a bit ....I thought i was gonna get a lashing.....thanks for going easy on me!




warlock07 said:


> How is your wife reacting these days ?
> 
> Did you get any more truth ? You know you don't have the complete truth..


Well I told her I ordered a copy of all her texts and calls for the past 18 months and I'm meeting my buddy this week for him to pull off deleted texts. I told her I know there should be a few texts from him due to talking about my stepson, but if there is an excessive amount then i think its pretty obvious.

I told her to come clean now because the truth is coming regardless of what she says. Shes sticking to the her story so I told her shes either telling the truth or shes a bigger idiot then I gave her credit for. The truth is coming though.

As far as how things went....well Saturday i sucked it up and purposely pretended like nothing happened. I acted like it was just a normal day in marriage land. It was very hard to do but I wanted to see if I had anything left for her. Honestly, it was probably the best day we've ever spent together. Even the kids fought less than they normally do. It really was a fantastic day, even if I knew it wasnt real.

Well, that night, my sub conscious kicked my ass. I had 3 of the most realistic and worse dreams I've ever had. Basically each consisted of taking the 3 things that brought this out (her friends, her gym time, and the OM). I woke up very early yesterday feeling like I did the first night I found out. I was angry and hurt yesterday for about half a day until I finally told myself to suck it up and be strong and dont let this break you. 

To be clear, I purposely repressed everything she had done for one day to see what life COULD be like. Of course, right now, she is acting like the woman and wife I always wanted her to be. Whether she stays like that is an entirely different story.

Its just funny how my sub conscious didnt get the memo on Saturday about me just pretending for the day. It wanted to make sure I wasnt being serious. Those dreams were the most realistic I've ever had. They were filled with such symbolism it was very interesting picking them apart.


----------



## jnj express

Your sub--conscious is the truth and reality of it all---you will always have to battle your sub--c,---no matter what you decide to do

Be careful---your W, is probably in a full on manipulation to save the nice lifestyle she had before she ripped out your heart----she knows you might just make her a single divorced mother with the label of A---on her---and she sure as he*l doesn't want that to happen---so she has gone into battle to save herself

Do you honestly think she loves you---would one who loves you---destroy you


----------



## bfree

jnj express said:


> Your sub--conscious is the truth and reality of it all---you will always have to battle your sub--c,---no matter what you decide to do


Don't I know it. I divorced my ex over two decades ago and I still get the occasional nightmare even though I'm now happily remarried to a wonderful woman. R or D this stuff does stay with you even when you think you've beaten it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

hawx20 said:


> Aww man when I saw you posted on here my butt clenched up a bit ....I thought i was gonna get a lashing.....thanks for going easy on me!


You seemed to have made up your mind so all I can say is good luck to you. Some people have to learn the hard way. You obviously love your spouse. Make no mistake, she doesn't love you. Based on her actions she has treated you with contempt and has no empathy for you what so ever. She doesn't deserve the chance you are giving her and it's only a matter of time before things fall apart. I just think you should have more respect for yourself and do what you said you were going to do: 



hawx20 said:


> I dont know how people stay with cheating spouses. Thats about the only thing I would break up my family over.


Because if you can't respect yourself then why should she respect you?


----------



## mahike

Your dreams can really be a b*tch. It will bring the anger up to the surface and bring all those horrible thoughts about your WW and the POS OM and what the did.

Trying to have a pretend day that this did not happen really does not help anything. If you do want to R with your wife she really needs to understand you are willing to end it. If she does not believe that from day 1 of R all you will get is a false R.

What are you doing for yourself. You need time with your kids, your buddies and time with a good IC. Saturdays playing like everything is good with the wife only rug sweeps.


----------



## MEM2020

Hawx,
I think you should give her a chance. 

I am simply advocating for you to remove the 'financial incentive' that might factor into your wife staying with you. 

It is kind of sad reading your posts. You really don't 'get' how this stuff works. 

You were meeting your wife's needs, while she starved you. 

A 'postnup' sends a simple, three part message:
- You put yourself first, now WE are going to agree for you to put ME first. 
- If you are genuinely contrite (not just upset that you've been caught) you will feel this postnup is fair. 
- If you are totally committed to the marriage, the postnup shouldn't matter as it won't be executed. If you have real doubts about the marriage you will fight me on it. 







hawx20 said:


> True.
> 
> I told her the old marriage is done. I took away our rings, our anniversary date means nothing, and I ripped up our wedding pictures. That wedding, that woman, is gone.
> 
> I told her if this does work out, when ever we decide that we reached a point where I can tell her I love her again (or if I even ever do)....then we can buy new rings, renew vows, whatever.
> 
> I dont think you ever forgive something like this and I know I wont forget. However, I know I can get past it....if, and only if, she becomes a woman who is worth it. I have no idea what she is right now. The woman she is being right now, and says she wants to be, is the woman I fell in love with and was married happily to for a few years. The woman she became, and was unhappy with is what I want to avoid.
> 
> I told her the questions isnt if I can get over this. The question is, is she worth it? Thats the 64 million dollar question that remains to be answered.
> 
> 
> I appreciate everyones advice. I really do. Everyone is different and no one truly knows the whole dynamic other than myself.
> 
> I really do not have any expectations right now. I have to do what I feel is right, even if some of you think I'm making a mistake. I know that R is going to be hell for both of us. I told her this and want to make sure she understands. I'm basically an unstable ticking time bomb. I can be fine one minute, and filled with anger the next. It also doesnt take much to feel anger towards her, the slightest thing will do it.
> 
> I'm so hardened by life that I can handle anything, short of (knock on wood) something happening to my kids.
> 
> I'm going to give R a shot. We have counseling set up and I am going to have her go to to counseling for herself also. Its going to be a very long road and R may never happen. I have no expectations for the future. If it does happen, she will have to earn it in every way possible. Whatever happens, trust will not be earned so easily and the words she is saying today I take with a huge grain of salt.
> 
> I'm in hell right now. If she wants this to work, shes going to have to come into hell and fight her way out. I just feel, for me, this is the best option for right now. Some of you may disagree and believe I'm making a mistake, but I have to do what I feel is the best choice right now.
> 
> Even though some of you may think i'm stupid to give her a chance, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing for my best interest. Believe me, I'm not going into this all gullible and blind. I have my proof, I have all my documentation. I will store it in a safe place in case its needed. She can only add more fuel to the fire if it doesnt work out. If it does end in D, then I can go in there and prove to the judge that not only did I try everything possible to keep this family together, but more importantly I am the better provider, better parent, and the one with morals. I know a man faces an uphill battle with child custody in court. If the worst happens and R doesnt work, well I want to make sure I go into that D fully armed.


----------



## cdbaker

I hope everyone here can understand that until your spouse has cheated on you, you really can't possibly begin to understand what it is like. It rips your heart out. It can bring the most macho alpha male to his knees. It's very, very easy to make bold statements like, "I could never get over my spouse cheating on me" or "I'd be going straight to divorce court if my spouse had an affair!" or something like that. The reality when it happens to you is often quite different. In the scope of a few short days/weeks/months, you discover that you aren't nearly as strong as you thought you were, and much stronger than you ever thought possible as well. It's an unbelievably trying experience, and sometimes you find yourself thinking a little differently when you emerge from it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

cdbaker said:


> I hope everyone here can understand that until your spouse has cheated on you, you really can't possibly begin to understand what it is like. It rips your heart out. It can bring the most macho alpha male to his knees. It's very, very easy to make bold statements like, "I could never get over my spouse cheating on me" or "I'd be going straight to divorce court if my spouse had an affair!" or something like that. The reality when it happens to you is often quite different. In the scope of a few short days/weeks/months, you discover that you aren't nearly as strong as you thought you were, and much stronger than you ever thought possible as well. It's an unbelievably trying experience, and sometimes you find yourself thinking a little differently when you emerge from it.


It would seem that this means a BS to take their time in making any decision on R. Work through the pain, upheaval and turmoil and figure out what is the best decision for you. Making that decision a mere days into such a storm seems much more likely to result in a bad decision.


----------



## lordmayhem

It's been a week. Any updates, or is this an abandoned thread?


----------



## illwill

cdbaker said:


> I hope everyone here can understand that until your spouse has cheated on you, you really can't possibly begin to understand what it is like. It rips your heart out. It can bring the most macho alpha male to his knees. It's very, very easy to make bold statements like, "I could never get over my spouse cheating on me" or "I'd be going straight to divorce court if my spouse had an affair!" or something like that. The reality when it happens to you is often quite different. In the scope of a few short days/weeks/months, you discover that you aren't nearly as strong as you thought you were, and much stronger than you ever thought possible as well. It's an unbelievably trying experience, and sometimes you find yourself thinking a little differently when you emerge from it.


Believe this if you need to. Not at all true, by the way.


----------



## hawx20

illwill said:


> Believe this if you need to. Not at all true, by the way.


I dont know....it kind of described me perfectly.



lordmayhem said:


> It's been a week. Any updates, or is this an abandoned thread?


Nothing really important to update. I'm still at home living day by day. She is doing everything humanly possible to make it up and of course promising the world.

I have my good and bad moments...I am still in denial I think. We have our first MC session tomorrow so we'll see what happens.


----------



## Philat

hawx20 said:


> I dont know....it kind of described me perfectly.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing really important to update. I'm still at home living day by day. She is doing everything humanly possible to make it up and of course promising the world.
> 
> I have my good and bad moments...I am still in denial I think. *We have our first MC session tomorrow so we'll see what happens.*


It's still very early days. She will have to keep up the righteous behavior for a long time yet.


----------



## hawx20

Philat said:


> It's still very early days. She will have to keep up the righteous behavior for a long time yet.


True. I'm taking it day by day. It will take a very long time to see if this new behavior of hers is anything more than just an act until she thinks things are fine.


----------



## warlock07

This will turn into a boiling frog situation. Hawx, do you think she always treated you like sh!t ?? How did you think you ended up in the situation you were in the first place ? It was a gradual process...


I think it is a mistake to not even consider temporary separation. In someway, his wife is in control of the whole situation though she might have conceded a thing or two. 

Did she confess to anything more than what you found out ?

There is always more.

hawx, read awake1's story. It has similarities to yours.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/66609-how-my-wife-cheated-me.html


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> This will turn into a boiling frog situation. Hawx, do you think she always treated you like sh!t ?? How did you think you ended up in the situation you were in the first place ? It was a gradual process...
> 
> 
> I think it is a mistake to not even consider temporary separation. In someway, his wife is in control of the whole situation though she might have conceded a thing or two.
> 
> Did she confess to anything more than what you found out ?
> 
> There is always more.
> 
> hawx, read awake1's story. It has similarities to yours.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/66609-how-my-wife-cheated-me.html


:iagree:

Especially since she went to work on D-Day so she and OM could get their stories straight. One time last November....yeah right. Years of going out and partying on GNOs (maybe they were GNOs, or maybe she was meeting OM). And still no exposure of the affair to the OMW. 

She should be throwing the OM under the bus and not care if the affair gets exposed to the OMW....if she's truly remorseful. But if she gets angry or tries to protect the OM...well, there you have it.


----------



## hawx20

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> She should be throwing the OM under the bus and not care if the affair gets exposed to the OMW....if she's truly remorseful. But if she gets angry or tries to protect the OM...well, there you have it.


She doesnt care if I expose him and she never tried to protect him. 

So far, she has done everything right. I have her cell, I always had access to her email, I canceled her FB, she canceled her gym membership and told her friends that she wouldnt be seeing them for a long time. 

I know her priorities were way out of whack before D-day. Not just with me, but with the kids and her family. She had really turned into a very selfish and ugly person. She is now being the woman I always wanted, the woman she was before her mid life crisis. She is being very different with the kids too. She is appreciating them more and spending time doing things with them, even when it interferes with something she wants to do. 

I think it would be a much different story had she done this, or acted like this, to me only. She says that seeing me pack my bags and taking the kids woke her up and she feels so stupid for what she had let her life become.

I just dont know if I believe her. She may very well of had a life changing epiphany. She may very well just be covering her own ass by kissing mine. I dont know. Only time will tell.


----------



## lordmayhem

hawx20 said:


> She doesnt care if I expose him and she never tried to protect him.
> 
> So far, she has done everything right. I have her cell, I always had access to her email, I canceled her FB, she canceled her gym membership and told her friends that she wouldnt be seeing them for a long time.
> 
> I know her priorities were way out of whack before D-day. Not just with me, but with the kids and her family. She had really turned into a very selfish and ugly person. She is now being the woman I always wanted, the woman she was before her mid life crisis. She is being very different with the kids too. She is appreciating them more and spending time doing things with them, even when it interferes with something she wants to do.
> 
> I think it would be a much different story had she done this, or acted like this, to me only. She says that seeing me pack my bags and taking the kids woke her up and she feels so stupid for what she had let her life become.
> 
> I just dont know if I believe her. She may very well of had a life changing epiphany. She may very well just be covering her own ass by kissing mine. I dont know. Only time will tell.


Are you employing a VAR like people have suggested? The VAR, as has been seen here many times, is the one surveillance tool that has exposed deception many times. 

Many BSs here had a false sense of security because they can access their WSs cell records at any time. So what does the WS do? They get a cheap, pay as you go, burner phone. You know, those cheap phones that you can get at almost any store, WITH CASH, and buy reload cards, WITH CASH. I'm not supposed to post pictures here, but I feel I need to, to emphasize my point.


----------



## warlock07

How long was her affair going on ?

What happened to the poly ?





> she is now being the woman I always wanted, the woman she was before her mid life crisis. She is being very different with the kids too. She is appreciating them more and spending time doing things with them, even when it interferes with something she wants to do.


hawx, I don't mean to offend you(people usually say this when they are about to) but either you have very little low standards and little love for yourself or you are very very gullible. You still blame yourself for not catching this much earlier. You think it was stupid of you to catch on this earlier. You probably blame yourself for not being "man" enough for your wife..

Your actions right now(or how you are reacting to it), you might want to re-think about it. You cannot threaten someone to be a good wife under the threat of a divorce or because she is scared what her family will think of her. What will you think will happen when she starts reverting back to her selfish self in a few months ?


----------



## Hicks

What you have to face is WHY has she changed into being a good wife? That is what you have to discover.


----------



## The Middleman

Hawx20,

I have a question for you. If you take her back and try and reconcile, for the sake of the kids, or what ever other reason you have, you know that means she gets away with this humiliation of you "scott free". She was having sex with another man, most likely unprotected sex, and then she happily brought a little bit of him home for you. Are you able to live with that going forward? Does this reconcile with your sense of self respect? I'm not saying this to be nasty, I'm saying this so you view what she did to you in very base terms and to try to give you some perspective on the sh1t sandwich you are going to take a bite of.


----------



## treyvion

The Middleman said:


> Hawx20,
> 
> I have a question for you. If you take her back and try and reconcile, for the sake of the kids, or what ever other reason you have, you know that means she gets away with this humiliation of you "scott free". She was having sex with another man, most likely unprotected sex, and then she happily brought a little bit of him home to you. Are you able to live with that going forward? Does this reconcile with your sense of self respect? I'm not saying this to be nasty, I'm saying this so you view what she did to you in very base terms and try to give you some perspective on the sh1t sandwich you are going to take a bite of.


Its true. And this monster which grew over the year of cheating on you is unlikely to totally have died. Pieces of it are alive or can be brought back to life with a little time.

One of the only way they can be scared back into being a good spouse is a near death or tramatic experience behind the affair world, and then they are happy to go home and appreciate what they have. But even then, there may be a small part of them, that wants that outside taste, embellishment what have you, because they can get away with that.

I think your job if you want to reconcile is to completely cauterize and burn that monster out of her.

All of the places and people she communicated with during and around the affair, have to be taken out. I think you have access to all her email and phone records. Even can GPS her car. She'd also go through maritial counseling in which she has full participation, most of the time the cheaters go through the motions and show you what you need to see and hear.


----------



## mahike

hawx20 said:


> True. I'm taking it day by day. It will take a very long time to see if this new behavior of hers is anything more than just an act until she thinks things are fine.


Do not trust easily take it slow and steady. This is still new and she may have not completely detached from the POS. Verify everything and that should include a VAR in the car.

MC at this point should be about her answering your questions so you can talk out the whys of the A. Do not allow these sessions turn into what is wrong with you or your marriage. This time should be about why did she cheat, anything else you want to know and of course what she is prepared to do the rebuild a new marriage.

Always remember the old marriage is dead, she killed it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

hawx20 said:


> She is now being the woman I always wanted, the woman she was before her mid life crisis.


Buying a sports car is a mid life crisis. Stabbing your husband in the back and sleeping with another man is pure disgusting selfishness. Your sir are subconsciously justifying her behavior. Maybe YOU should be the man she always wanted, alpha up and throw her a$$ out for a little while. Let her sweat for a while and give you time to make a rational decision. She cheated on you cause she thinks your a beta doormat and you are not proving her wrong right now with idle threats. 



hawx20 said:


> She may very well of had a life changing epiphany.


I may very well be sexually assaulted on the way home today by a bus load of gorgeous swedish bikini models. Because the odds are about equally likely to happen.



hawx20 said:


> She may very well just be covering her own ass by kissing mine.


Obviously she is...



hawx20 said:


> I dont know.


Don't you??? I think you're deep in a BS fog of denial.


----------



## missthelove2013

I recently caught my wife cheating...she had an out of control pu$$y for 4 years...and is now moved out, I have a lawyer and am moving forward with divorce...

At first I was so ***king mad that it was easy to do a 180, get her out, proceed with divorce...but once the dust settles a bit, it gets harder...my stbx is being very sweet, apologetic...she wont apologize for banging other dudes, but she is sincerly sorry I am hurt and our family is kaput

so NOW is the time where R and the possibility of R rears its ugly lying head...there is NO possibility of R...she cheated...if we were to get back together, the R fog would eventually lift and I would realize that I never did fully regain trust or respect for her...hoe could I??? I might FOOl myself into thinking I trust and respect her, but sooner or later it will rear its ugly head

the best way to reconcile is to do it with another woman, loose the cheater, and move on...a cheater is a cheater deep down to their very core...they might figure out fancy shmancy terms for it in therapy, justify it, and develop tools to combat future temptations, but they will always be a cheater...fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...there wont ever be a second time for me...


----------



## treyvion

missthelove2013 said:


> I recently caught my wife cheating...she had an out of control pu$$y for 4 years...and is now moved out, I have a lawyer and am moving forward with divorce...
> 
> At first I was so ***king mad that it was easy to do a 180, get her out, proceed with divorce...but once the dust settles a bit, it gets harder...my stbx is being very sweet, apologetic...she wont apologize for banging other dudes, but she is sincerly sorry I am hurt and our family is kaput
> 
> so NOW is the time where R and the possibility of R rears its ugly lying head...there is NO possibility of R...she cheated...if we were to get back together, the R fog would eventually lift and I would realize that I never did fully regain trust or respect for her...hoe could I??? I might FOOl myself into thinking I trust and respect her, but sooner or later it will rear its ugly head
> 
> the best way to reconcile is to do it with another woman, loose the cheater, and move on...a cheater is a cheater deep down to their very core...they might figure out fancy shmancy terms for it in therapy, justify it, and develop tools to combat future temptations, but they will always be a cheater...fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...there wont ever be a second time for me...


This is a great way to do it, and you will feel better as a result because you know from this day forward you will not be cheated upon, and if the next "she" chooses to, she will be out the door.


----------



## hawx20

warlock07 said:


> How long was her affair going on ?
> 
> What happened to the poly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hawx, I don't mean to offend you(people usually say this when they are about to) but either you have very little low standards and little love for yourself or you are very very gullible. You still blame yourself for not catching this much earlier. You think it was stupid of you to catch on this earlier. You probably blame yourself for not being "man" enough for your wife..
> 
> Your actions right now(or how you are reacting to it), you might want to re-think about it. You cannot threaten someone to be a good wife under the threat of a divorce or because she is scared what her family will think of her. What will you think will happen when she starts reverting back to her selfish self in a few months ?



Actually, I dont blame myself at all. I think thats why I'm dealing with this so well. This is all her issues that caused this. She is 40 thinking/wanting to be a 25 year old. 

All I'm saying is that I can move past this. Yes it hurts, yes it pisses me off, yes it is a major blow to my self respect (and the hardest part to do).

I want to believe she will change her ways, but I dont believe she will. I fully expect her to go back to her ways once she feels safe again. I have to try, for reasons only I understand. If 6 months down the line she starts to revert, then I leave. 

I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


----------



## turnera

What EPs is she following?


----------



## mahike

The other side of that coin is I showed my daughter how a man deals with infidelity in the marriage. I am not sure how old your daughter is but she is taking away life lessons right now about how you both behave as adults and spouses

She could be taking away men are doormats and that sex controls a marriage. She could be thinking putting your self first is the way a woman should think.

I am not down playing your reasons. I devoutly hope that most people can R but that is not always the case.

Also R is not always in the best interest of the kid. This could also be your ego talking as well. My man hood was threatened and I made many of my choices based on my badly damaged image and ego


----------



## hawx20

mahike said:


> The other side of that coin is I showed my daughter how a man deals with infidelity in the marriage. I am not sure how old your daughter is but she is taking away life lessons right now about how you both behave as adults and spouses
> 
> She could be taking away men are doormats and that sex controls a marriage. She could be thinking putting your self first is the way a woman should think.
> 
> I am not down playing your reasons. I devoutly hope that most people can R but that is not always the case.
> 
> Also R is not always in the best interest of the kid. This could also be your ego talking as well. My man hood was threatened and I made many of my choices based on my badly damaged image and ego


Shes only 5 so all she would know is her parents dont live together anymore.

I tell you, my manhood/ego wants me to leave and kicks my ass for staying. The father/husband in me wants to work it out.


----------



## LostViking

Is she having regular sex with you now or is she still withholding?


----------



## BetrayedDad

hawx20 said:


> I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


I think you are just scared to let go. I know I was but sometimes you have to listen to your head not your heart. I'm kicking my ex out now and my heart really wants her to stay but my head KNOWS I can never trust her again. You need to understand your head knows what's best for you because it is unbiased but your ignoring it and making this decision based on raw emotion. That's how you will get burned. In your gut you know her epifany is BS... Don't let fear cloud your judgment. Good Luck.


----------



## Chaparral

Christian counselors get a lot of grief for trying to get men to reconcile when the wife commits adultery. I always questioned this. However, I heard it explained on a Christian radio network.

Their reasoning was to avoid the scenario of having a fathers children, especially girls, from being raised by another man that isn't a blood relative. After all, the WW has already shown poor judgement. Its hard to imagine her making a good choice of a step dad.

I had the feeling that their experiences with abuse victims gave them a far more pessimistic view of step fathers and mothers. The amount of abuse by step parents is far higher than most people know.


----------



## manticore

hawx20 said:


> I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


I always trigger when I read someone doing this for the sake of the kids, let me tell you something my father was the cheater, and my mother was the BS.

Guess what?, I have a much better relationship with my father than with my mother, all the resentment, hurt, frustration, and pain that my mother felt towards my father she directed it towards me, I was the punching bag for all the complains and anger she had, it made me mistrust women, think of them as hypocrites. My mother smiled at my father in home to have him happy and to have the family together "for our sake", so I was the one who had to hear that she can also go and sleep around with men if she wanted, I was the one who had to hear how all we men are hypocrites that just want one thing from women in life, and how we are all cheaters and betrayers.

and just because I know that my mother was betrayed and she was coping incorrectly with her pain, don't make it easy for me, I know the logic and science behind her actions, but feelings are feelings and in the end so many years of verbal abuse, don't make me want to spend more time with my mother.

I am telling you because I read how your daughter is aware of your anger and reactions towards her mother.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just busted her*



Chaparral said:


> Christian counselors get a lot of grief for trying to get men to reconcile when the wife commits adultery. I always questioned this. However, I heard it explained on a Christian radio network.
> 
> Their reasoning was to avoid the scenario of having a fathers children, especially girls, from being raised by another man that isn't a blood relative. After all, the WW has already shown poor judgement. Its hard to imagine her making a good choice of a step dad.
> 
> I had the feeling that their experiences with abuse victims gave them a far more pessimistic view of step fathers and mothers. The amount of abuse by step parents is far higher than most people know.


That's a good point. I never thought of it like that. I suppose it's all about what the person can tolerate. Some men would have difficulty acting like the good family man if a betrayal like this is too much to forgive for them.


----------



## lordmayhem

*Re: Re: Just busted her*



LostViking said:


> Is she having regular sex with you now or is she still withholding?


Thats what I'm wondering about too. If the hysterical bonding sex is going on, some BH's lose perspective and it makes it easier to rugsweep.


----------



## warlock07

hawx20 said:


> Actually, I dont blame myself at all. I think thats why I'm dealing with this so well. This is all her issues that caused this. She is 40 thinking/wanting to be a 25 year old.
> 
> All I'm saying is that I can move past this. Yes it hurts, yes it pisses me off, yes it is a major blow to my self respect (and the hardest part to do).
> 
> I want to believe she will change her ways, but I dont believe she will. I fully expect her to go back to her ways once she feels safe again. I have to try, for reasons only I understand. If 6 months down the line she starts to revert, then I leave.
> 
> I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


Then you going the wrong way about it. The biggest mistake you are doing is deceiving yourself. You know that but you find it the most convenient right now. You kept enabling her selfishness throughout your relationship.You cannot even kick her out of the family home for a couple of weeks. Just don't be surprised if she returns to her selfish ways after the storm has passed. The way you are handling this probably ensured that. The anger on the D-day carried you for the first few days after D-day, now you are back to your old naive ways...

What about the polygraph ? Do you plan to take one or do you still believe that you have the complete truth ?


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> Then you going the wrong way about it. The biggest mistake you are doing is deceiving yourself. You know that but you find it the most convenient right now. You kept enabling her selfishness throughout your relationship.You cannot even kick her out of the family home for a couple of weeks. Just don't be surprised if she returns to her selfish ways after the storm has passed. The way you are handling this probably ensured that. The anger on the D-day carried you for the first few days after D-day, now you are back to your old naive ways...
> 
> What about the polygraph ? Do you plan to take one or do you still believe that you have the complete truth ?


:iagree:
At the very least do the polygraph.

Then you will have some answers imo.


----------



## jim123

Be a good dad and husband and stand up for your M.

The way to do that is to file D and ask her to leave. Do not wait for change, make it happen. Do spend your time with VAR's, checking the phone and checking emails.

If she wants the M, she needs to win you back.

People change when they have to. The best success on TAM is when the BH has taken strong action.


----------



## larry.gray

Chaparral said:


> I had the feeling that their experiences with abuse victims gave them a far more pessimistic view of step fathers and mothers. The amount of abuse by step parents is far higher than most people know.


A buddy's granddaughters were molested just this way. His son's first wife went bonkers at 30, and started screwing anything that looked good in jeans. It didn't take long for one of the boyfriends to turn out to be into her to get to the little girls.


----------



## lordmayhem

hawx20 said:


> I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


I've read this many times here before, it's not uncommon. The standard: "I want to be able to look my children in the eye and tell them I did it for them."

Unfortunately, the reality is that you're probably not really doing it for her, it's because you're using the child as an excuse to live in limbo. As harsh as it sounds, its the reality of what I've seen in forums like this. Do you seriously think that years from now she's gonna ask you "Daddy, did you really do everything you could to save our family?". You already said your daughter is too young to even understand because she's 5 years old. 

The path you're going down is one I've seen here quite a few times before. You see, right now, you're in denial and shock even though you think you're past it just because you got past the *initial* anger stage. Your WW is playing nice right now, which is standard. Now, if she's truly repentant, then this will stick. However, selfishness is her core personality, just like narcissism. There is no cure for that. After a while, she will tire of pretending to be nice to you and the kids. Then she will play the "controlling" card, accusing you of being a control freak, that she doesn't want to live under a microscope. A truly remorseful WS will welcome the scrutiny because they WANT to rebuild trust with you. 

From what you describe, she's laying low for now. But she has a lot of younger, toxic friends, who are not friends of the marriage. Soon, they will be contacting her, wanting to go out on GNOs again, and/or gym. She may then actually ask you if she can go out, and offer to contact you while she's out to prove that you can trust her. This is called testing the new boundaries. If you refuse, then she will play the "controlling" card. Then the rug sweeping will begin. You may get the "It's been X months, why aren't you over this already?". Studies show it takes on average 2-5 years to recover from the devastation of betrayal, yet, the unremorseful WS will expect you to get over it in a few months or less. Why? Because they lack empathy. One of the most important signs of remorse, is empathy toward YOUR feelings, not theirs. 

You've already admitted that you don't think your WW's new found attitude isn't going to last. Well, none of us live with you. You know her better than anyone in the forum ever will. You do what you feel you have to do, which is attempt R. 

Just know that you will be back to square one within a year. Many have come back here to report that they reqret wasting that time and effort. I can only form my assumption based on what you describe of your WW. And yours is an all too familiar story. Your situation is not unique.


----------



## spike1down

i just joined this forum a little over an hour ago. I am lost and my body feels numb. Here is my situation: I have been with my girlfriend for over 5 years now. We have a daughter aged 3 about to turn 4 at the end of this month. She also had two boys from a previous relationship. Their father is no in the picture out of safety for herself. To these boys I am their father, they call me dad and see me in that role. My relationship with my girlfriend I feel is over and beyond repair. It has been a rollercoaster of emotion and decisions that when I sit down and think of all these choices, I am left wondering why am I still doing this. In our third year of our relationship, we broke up. I knew the reason for this because we lost the spark and desire to be together. But she didn't move out. We stayed living together and were also having sex. I found that she was having a emotion/sexting affair with one of her coworkers. They would constatnly text each other about how they just wanted to **** each other. I confronted her about this relationship several times but she kept telling me that we were broken up and she could do as she pleases. I took this time to rekindle the relationship between us to reignite our love life. It worked. Nothing ever came out with her and that guy from work. So we here we are at the present. Now it is someone else at work that she wants to be with. but this time around it's not a sexual relationship but a full blown this is the person I want to with. I found a facebook message between them where expressed his feelings towards her. She replied that saying that she does feel a strong connection with him and that when she's with me all she thinks is about is him. I confronted her about this and she admitted that she likes to have emotional afffairs with guys because she feels a hole in her life that I am not fullfilling and that she needs to feel attention from someone else. Even after this discovery, we talked about things, and we spent this past weekend having sex several times. I work the third shift, so when I left for work sunday night, i went under the impression that things were good and that she did want to work on life together. but while at work, she starts having a conversation with him, now it's about her ****ing him and how she would do it. That there several areas in their work were they can hide and do things. She has always been one that valued her privacy, that I could never go through her phone or her facebook and not feel threatned about a relationship she has with another male. I admit that the from the first time this happened, my trust with her was gone. I stuck it for the sake of the kids and because I loved her and I wanted to make a life with her. This past morning, when I got home and confronted her about last night's conversation, she got on the defensive and denied. All there is now from her is denial. So I spent the morning just arguing with her and calling her out about her betrayal. I feel so stupid because all I want is for her to stop and be with me. I called her a lot of names and insulted the person she is. She texted me that she doesn't want to be with me anymore and that it is beyond repair. This evening before I left for work, she wouldn't talk to me. I tried to grab her hand and she walked away. Here I am sitting down like an idiot and begging her to give us one more chance. That I can repair our relationship and that I can provide for her all the needs she desires. Begging. Apologizing over and over because I am convinced that I drove her to do this. She will continue her relationship with this guy and she will probably move out. my mind is so fried that I look back to text we were sending each other a week ago and it's all about how we are going to do things together in our lives. and how much she loved me. The father in me is saying to fix this. For the children. Expecially my daughter. She has grown up her whole life with my family and my parents do me a favor of watching her everyday while we are at work. They have also helped us in tough times financially. She asked if we seperate to continue to be the father figure for the boys. It is a huge commitment for me especially coming from someone that has done this to me. I am scared to lose my family. I am scared for my child. I am scared of also being alone and this is it. My Self worth is at an all time low. I blame myself for everything while I feel and know that she hasn't done anything wrong. I need advice but also I need people that have been in the same situation as me for support.


----------



## turnera

spike, copy your post (and break it into paragraphs please!) and paste it into a new thread so you can get the help you need.


----------



## alexm

hawx20 said:


> Actually, I dont blame myself at all. I think thats why I'm dealing with this so well. This is all her issues that caused this. She is 40 thinking/wanting to be a 25 year old.
> 
> All I'm saying is that I can move past this. Yes it hurts, yes it pisses me off, yes it is a major blow to my self respect (and the hardest part to do).
> 
> I want to believe she will change her ways, but I dont believe she will. I fully expect her to go back to her ways once she feels safe again. I have to try, for reasons only I understand. If 6 months down the line she starts to revert, then I leave.
> 
> I'm doing this for my daughter. When shes an adult, whether or not her parents are still together, I want her to know I did this for her. I did everything I could to give her a happy life. She wouldnt understand whats happening right now and I cant imagine not having her in my life every single day. If I didnt have a child, or if she was much older, I would be gone. That being said, if it doesnt work out, I want her to know that her father did everything to give her a good family, in spite of her mother.


I've read this entire thread, and though the circumstances are different, it echos a lot of what I went through about 5 or 6 years ago (read my very first post here from 2008).

In a nutshell, my ex wife blindsided me one day and told me she was leaving and that she, quote "wanted to have sex with other men". This is how she left me. I had NO clue that there already was another man. It didn't even occur to me. It took about 3 months or so for that to come to light.

During those 3 months (in which I posted here), I made numerous excuses for her, AND for myself. The parts of my story that are similar to yours is the whole "mid life crisis" thing (even though she was only 30 at the time). She had lost weight, joined a gym, took up running, and all of a sudden spent a LOT of time on her appearance. New clothes, obsession with shoes and makeup, the whole 9 yards. The last 2 years we were together, this was going on, and I was totally blind to it. Never occurred to me there was another (or more) men. I just thought she was doing it because it made her feel good about herself.

I was totally blind, and in retrospect, I SHOULD have seen what was going on. I beat myself up over it in a huge way, and numerous people here continually pointed out that I was defending her (which I was).

3 months after we split, when I was still under the impression that there was a possibility we could get back together, the news came that there was another man. I didn't even know she was with somebody during that time, let alone prior to her up and leaving. The only reason I found out was because she had to tell me - she was moving out of the country, to be with him.

I put 2 and 2 together myself. She never came clean about any affair. But you generally don't meet somebody and pick up your life and move to another country in 3 months. Figuring this out was D-day all over again, but worse.

My point to the OP is that, 5 years later, I am SO much better off without her. I spent several months thinking we might have a chance to get back together, provided she make some changes.

I honestly believe (based solely upon what you have written here) that you shouldn't even be entertaining the thought of R. Yes, there are kids, but when you stop and think about it, what difference does it make to them to have 2 parents together, one of whom is not a great role model, and who has historically put herself ahead of them?

For that matter, the OM will still pop up from time to time in your life, being that he is your step-son's sperm donor. He might cool it for a little bit, but they always come back. Your step-son, at the very least when he gets older, will seek him out.

You won't be able to avoid your wife in the future, as she is the mother of your daughter. But there's no need to all be living in the same house, and possibly also having the OM involved going forward.

Not only that, but you will NEVER trust her again, period. No matter how much you think it COULD be possible, you won't. I don't agree with the other posters here who say she WILL re-offend. She may, but she may not. But that shouldn't be a risk you are willing to take.

You are 40. You're still young enough to make a clean break, get on with your life elsewhere, without all the BS. It's much easier to start again at this age, then it will be in 5, 10 or 15 years.

And besides, your daughter is already going through all this crap at the age of 5. Why take the risk of it happening again when she's 7, or 10, or 12? It's traumatic enough for her now, but imagine her having to go through this again? Not worth the risk.


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## weightlifter

turnera said:


> spike, copy your post (and break it into paragraphs please!) and paste it into a new thread so you can get the help you need.


QFT

spike
select your post
hit control c
start a new thread
hit control v
A few places in it hit enter to break it up a bit


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## sammy3

hawx20 said:


> She doesnt care if I expose him and she never tried to protect him.
> 
> So far, she has done everything right. I have her cell, I always had access to her email, I canceled her FB, she canceled her gym membership and told her friends that she wouldnt be seeing them for a long time.
> 
> I know her priorities were way out of whack before D-day. Not just with me, but with the kids and her family. She had really turned into a very selfish and ugly person. She is now being the woman I always wanted, the woman she was before her mid life crisis. She is being very different with the kids too. She is appreciating them more and spending time doing things with them, even when it interferes with something she wants to do.
> 
> I think it would be a much different story had she done this, or acted like this, to me only. She says that seeing me pack my bags and taking the kids woke her up and she feels so stupid for what she had let her life become.
> 
> I just dont know if I believe her. She may very well of had a life changing epiphany. She may very well just be covering her own ass by kissing mine. I dont know. Only time will tell.



Isn't this what we the bs want from the ww? To change? To become the person they can be and should have been all along? Then when the ww does so, we the bs don't want to believe, or we dont trust, or our friends encourage us to tread carefully. It seems we are damn if we do, and we're damn if we don't. 

~sammy


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## turnera

That's why you set up the EPs and verify.


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## bartendersfriend

sammy3 said:


> Isn't this what we the bs want from the ww? To change? To become the person they can be and should have been all along? Then when the ww does so, we the bs don't want to believe, or we dont trust, or our friends encourage us to tread carefully. It seems we are damn if we do, and we're damn if we don't.


Exactly right. That's why things will never be the same. It is just a new reality.

My wife, like the OP, seems to be doing everything right since DDay. I find myself wondering how long she can keep that up...


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## cdbaker

warlock07 said:


> Then you going the wrong way about it. The biggest mistake you are doing is deceiving yourself. You know that but you find it the most convenient right now. You kept enabling her selfishness throughout your relationship.You cannot even kick her out of the family home for a couple of weeks. Just don't be surprised if she returns to her selfish ways after the storm has passed. The way you are handling this probably ensured that. The anger on the D-day carried you for the first few days after D-day, now you are back to your old naive ways...
> 
> What about the polygraph ? Do you plan to take one or do you still believe that you have the complete truth ?


I'm pretty sure that he very specifically said that he won't be surprised if she returns to her selfish ways. In fact, I think he indicated that he expects that she will do exactly that. It sounds like he is just willing to give her this chance to prove herself, or hang herself. He seems to understand and is comfortable with the consequences either way, so what is the harm in giving her a chance?


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## cdbaker

I don't understand all of the discouragement here. Yes his wife did a horrible thing, she was incredibly selfish, cared nothing for her husband or family, and broke a sacred promise that can never again be 100% restored.

With that said, we here know that people CAN screw up royally and come back from it in a strong and permanent way. People can have that epiphany (if you want to call it that) or realization of how much they screwed up and truly commit to restoring the marriage, rebuilding it stronger than it was before. Yes of course a mended fence is just that, a broken fence that has been repaired as best as possible but will always show signs that it was once broken and might never be quite as sturdy as it was before it was broken. But can a very strong mended fence not still stand up to future threats and storms?

I'm not trying to get all philosophical here, but it sounds to me like his wife has done pretty much everything right since D-Day, or at least there isn't much more I could think of to ask for or insist on from her. I'm guessing that most marriages that are hit by adultery are usually doomed. There is absolutely plenty of justification for doubting the OP's chances of successful reconciliation and/or his wife's ability to truly change for the long term, even with her doing everything right so far. With that said, why would we here fill this thread with post after post insisting that he should give up any thought of reconciliation, that there is no hope for his wife, that they are 100% doomed, etc.? 

I just can't understand the justification for that incredibly pessimism. We want to make sure that the OP understands what signs he should look out for, that the odds of this 2nd chance being successful are low, what kind of tactics he should consider to hold her accountable, etc. so that he'll be best capable of protecting himself and his familiy one way or the other. But once the OP has been fully informed, I just don't understand all of the incredible negativity.


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## turnera

I know several ex-cheaters who are some of the most honorable (now) people I know. They did learn, they did change. Some had more trouble or took longer than others, but they did change.


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## walkonmars

Hawx:
You're hoping for the best possible outcome for your family. That's an honorable goal. You have received some very good advice about how to proceed and to have the best chance at a successful R. The idea of cracking her prior texts to ascertain her truthfulness is not a bad idea.

But, because there are many ways to circumvent text footprints (I know you don't think her capable of doing this - but did you think her capable of cheating?) , you should really employ the poly or at least the threat of one. This is to ensure that you aren't just spinning your wheels through TT. 

Anyway, (in many jurisdictions) once you 'accept' her and attempt R, she will be 'off the hook' legally speaking. That is, you will be legally viewed as having accepted/forgiven her betrayal and will be - from a legal standpoint - starting with a clean slate. 

So in the meantime she is strengthening her position at attaining full custody with all the benefits of financial support. Who knows, in a few months SHE may have you severed with divorce papers from out of the blue - with a much stronger hand to play. 

That is why you should press for as much as you can now. Some posters have advocated obtaining a very favorable D now and let her prove herself post D. That's not a bad strategy. 

At any rate. Since you're going to MC next week please be careful with the MC's approach. There are some horrendous MCs in the field. One way to spot one right off the bat is if the MC presses for or advocates any of these: (and if the MC does suggest any/all of these - just walk out and find a different one)

1. The affair was really partly your fault

2. You need to work at winning back your errant spouse

3. You need to move on and forgive quickly to save the marriage

4. The affair is a marriage problem - not the errant spouse's personal failing 


Wishing you strength, insight, and success.


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## Tall Average Guy

cdbaker said:


> I just can't understand the justification for that incredibly pessimism. We want to make sure that the OP understands what signs he should look out for, that the odds of this 2nd chance being successful are low, what kind of tactics he should consider to hold her accountable, etc. so that he'll be best capable of protecting himself and his familiy one way or the other. But once the OP has been fully informed, I just don't understand all of the incredible negativity.


My limited advice has been directed toward Hawx taking his time to make sure that R is what he wants. Your points above are well taken. But my concern is that Hawx has decided to R without allowing his emotions to settle and really thinking about what he needs. By deciding to R now, he may get himself stuck in a position where he has committed to it, she does nothing more wrong (and everything right), but he wants out because deep down it is in fact a deal breaker. By committing too early, he may end up faced with the choice of either living in a marriage he does not want or being the bad guy because he is the one that ends things far down the line.

I just don't think that deciding to R (and telling her) this soon after makes sense.


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## kristin2349

cdbaker said:


> I don't understand all of the discouragement here. Yes his wife did a horrible thing, she was incredibly selfish, cared nothing for her husband or family, and broke a sacred promise that can never again be 100% restored.
> 
> With that said, we here know that people CAN screw up royally and come back from it in a strong and permanent way. People can have that epiphany (if you want to call it that) or realization of how much they screwed up and truly commit to restoring the marriage, rebuilding it stronger than it was before. Yes of course a mended fence is just that, a broken fence that has been repaired as best as possible but will always show signs that it was once broken and might never be quite as sturdy as it was before it was broken. But can a very strong mended fence not still stand up to future threats and storms?
> 
> I'm not trying to get all philosophical here, but it sounds to me like his wife has done pretty much everything right since D-Day, or at least there isn't much more I could think of to ask for or insist on from her. I'm guessing that most marriages that are hit by adultery are usually doomed. There is absolutely plenty of justification for doubting the OP's chances of successful reconciliation and/or his wife's ability to truly change for the long term, even with her doing everything right so far. With that said, why would we here fill this thread with post after post insisting that he should give up any thought of reconciliation, that there is no hope for his wife, that they are 100% doomed, etc.?
> 
> I just can't understand the justification for that incredibly pessimism. We want to make sure that the OP understands what signs he should look out for, that the odds of this 2nd chance being successful are low, what kind of tactics he should consider to hold her accountable, etc. so that he'll be best capable of protecting himself and his familiy one way or the other. But once the OP has been fully informed, I just don't understand all of the incredible negativity.



I think there is a big difference between reality and pessimism. 

You yourself countered positive with a what can be taken as negative. R is hard work, if a post here can pull him under perhaps it is too hard. I don't come here to have sunshine blown up my rear. If that is what the OP wants he can say that. I'm sure there are people in R where they see the rainbows and flowers.

His D-Day was less than one MONTH ago! It is a long road back. Is it 100% doomed, of course not. They were playing the odds with it being a second marriage. Now there is cheating so the odds are now really not so great. I can't see a Hallmark moment anytime soon. 

But I think the majority of the advice here was sound. If every person responded with "aw man, chin up! Forgive her and have a happy life, this will all work out" that wouldn't be realistic or responsible. 

Just my view, which is admitedly not very positive at the moment.


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## sidney2718

kristin2349 said:


> I think there is a big difference between reality and pessimism.
> 
> You yourself countered positive with a what can be taken as negative. R is hard work, if a post here can pull him under perhaps it is too hard. I don't come here to have sunshine blown up my rear. If that is what the OP wants he can say that. I'm sure there are people in R where they see the rainbows and flowers.
> 
> His D-Day was less than one MONTH ago! It is a long road back. Is it 100% doomed, of course not. They were playing the odds with it being a second marriage. Now there is cheating so the odds are now really not so great. I can't see a Hallmark moment anytime soon.
> 
> But I think the majority of the advice here was sound. If every person responded with "aw man, chin up! Forgive her and have a happy life, this will all work out" that wouldn't be realistic or responsible.
> 
> Just my view, which is admitedly not very positive at the moment.


I take you point and agree with it, but with one exception. Mostly R comes about after the WS has had to live with pain and problems. But some spouses are smarter than that (and I mean that in a good way). Once they are shown a picture of the future they get it. Nothing more is needed.

Am I sure that's the case here? No, I'm not. But if the BS is willing to try for an R at this point, I'd not argue against it. I doubt he'd go into it blind.


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## cdbaker

walkonmars said:


> Hawx:
> You're hoping for the best possible outcome for your family. That's an honorable goal. You have received some very good advice about how to proceed and to have the best chance at a successful R. The idea of cracking her prior texts to ascertain her truthfulness is not a bad idea.
> 
> But, because there are many ways to circumvent text footprints (I know you don't think her capable of doing this - but did you think her capable of cheating?) , you should really employ the poly or at least the threat of one. This is to ensure that you aren't just spinning your wheels through TT.
> 
> Anyway, (in many jurisdictions) once you 'accept' her and attempt R, she will be 'off the hook' legally speaking. That is, you will be legally viewed as having accepted/forgiven her betrayal and will be - from a legal standpoint - starting with a clean slate.
> 
> So in the meantime she is strengthening her position at attaining full custody with all the benefits of financial support. Who knows, in a few months SHE may have you severed with divorce papers from out of the blue - with a much stronger hand to play.
> 
> That is why you should press for as much as you can now. Some posters have advocated obtaining a very favorable D now and let her prove herself post D. That's not a bad strategy.
> 
> At any rate. Since you're going to MC next week please be careful with the MC's approach. There are some horrendous MCs in the field. One way to spot one right off the bat is if the MC presses for or advocates any of these: (and if the MC does suggest any/all of these - just walk out and find a different one)
> 
> 1. The affair was really partly your fault
> 
> 2. You need to work at winning back your errant spouse
> 
> 3. You need to move on and forgive quickly to save the marriage
> 
> 4. The affair is a marriage problem - not the errant spouse's personal failing
> 
> 
> Wishing you strength, insight, and success.


Very true, there are lots of ways that she could go about hiding her texts, e-mails, phone calls, etc. To name a few: Delete the texts quickly, switch to a different messaging system like Facebook or Yahoo messenger, switch to a system that he might not be familiar with at all or one like snapchat which auto-deletes all messages, buy a cheap $10 "burner" pre-paid phone with inexpensive minutes/text cards, rename contacts with fake info, etc.

Next, I think you are correct about the legal protections as well. I know in my case when I was initially preparing for divorce, I had a very solid case for arguing that my wife was not capable of being a good mother at that time and had a nice list of examples that backed up that claim. I got full temporary custody and likely would have received permanent 100% residential custody had it gone to divorce. But as I was also pursuing reconciliation and only preparing for divorce if it necessarily came to that, my lawyer warned me that if I "took her back" to attempt an R, that much of my solid case would dissolve away. The trouble is, it's hard to use your wife's awful or questionable decision-making to argue that she is a terrible parent and you are a much better one, when until very recently you had decided to take her back and were perfectly comfortable with her parenting your child. At best, a judge might question how bad she really is if you weren't concerned about it enough to let her continue parenting, and at worst he/she might question your own parenting ability by allowing a supposed "horrible parent with poor decision making" to parent your child. I understand those perceptions, but it really sucks that you (and your child) could be penalized by trying to save your marriage/family in that way.


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## lordmayhem

*Re: Re: Just busted her*



cdbaker said:


> I don't understand all of the discouragement here. Yes his wife did a horrible thing, she was incredibly selfish, cared nothing for her husband or family, and broke a sacred promise that can never again be 100% restored.
> 
> With that said, we here know that people CAN screw up royally and come back from it in a strong and permanent way. People can have that epiphany (if you want to call it that) or realization of how much they screwed up and truly commit to restoring the marriage, rebuilding it stronger than it was before. Yes of course a mended fence is just that, a broken fence that has been repaired as best as possible but will always show signs that it was once broken and might never be quite as sturdy as it was before it was broken. But can a very strong mended fence not still stand up to future threats and storms?
> 
> I'm not trying to get all philosophical here, but it sounds to me like his wife has done pretty much everything right since D-Day, or at least there isn't much more I could think of to ask for or insist on from her. I'm guessing that most marriages that are hit by adultery are usually doomed. There is absolutely plenty of justification for doubting the OP's chances of successful reconciliation and/or his wife's ability to truly change for the long term, even with her doing everything right so far. With that said, why would we here fill this thread with post after post insisting that he should give up any thought of reconciliation, that there is no hope for his wife, that they are 100% doomed, etc.?
> 
> I just can't understand the justification for that incredibly pessimism. We want to make sure that the OP understands what signs he should look out for, that the odds of this 2nd chance being successful are low, what kind of tactics he should consider to hold her accountable, etc. so that he'll be best capable of protecting himself and his familiy one way or the other. But once the OP has been fully informed, I just don't understand all of the incredible negativity.


The pessimism, as you call it, is due to the OPs description of his WW's behavior AND personality since almost the beginning of his marriage: selfish and entitled. She even admits this. 

She found a stable, dependable provider for her son to have a family with. Trouble is, she's not sexually attracted to a man like that. 
Can she change? Of course, anyone can change. But he knows her better than anyone here and expects her to change back from super mom and back to an entitled princess. 

And he's not done any exposure yet or engaged in any extensive verification. Just playing it day by day and living in limbo. Those actions are not uncommon here. It often takes several DDays before a BS says enough is enough. Or some BSs let their resentment build up and consume them because they RUSHED into R and forgave too quickly. We have quite a few threads like that in this forum where the BS is still so angry many years after the affair because they felt thet rugswept it. 

If he wants to try, I say let him. But people here would like to spare him additional DDays. For many, the pain of suffering DDay 2, 3, or more is worse than the initial DDay. 
Only time will tell if she reverts back to an entitled princess and breaks NC or worse, an OM2 or OM3 enters the picture. 

There are far too many people who come back later to report things have gotten worse. 

The chance here is very slim. Just saying.


----------

