# In the throes of despair.



## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Hello everyone.

My wife wants a divorce, and I need to share this with someone because I feel so alone with this.

So if you all will indulge me, it would be greatly appreciated.
A word of warning though, this is going to be a long story. All names have been changed to protect the identity of the people involved.





Jane (my wife) and I have been struggling with our marriage for the past year.


I need you to understand that I have always loved Jane (and still do), and there will always be a special place in my heart for her. Over the entire length of our marriage, I have loved Jane and have taken care of her the best way I knew how. All I ever wanted was for her to be happy. I am not saying I was the perfect husband (who is?), but I never raised a hand to her, never raised my voice to her, rarely argued with her, and was never unfaithful.


Things became quite difficult when Jane fell very ill. But I stood by her, and helped her as much as any good husband should. Soon after Jane graduated from Hygiene school, she became so sick that she couldn’t even work, it took the wind out of her sails, and mine as well, as this dashed our plans for the future. But I still stood by her side. I comforted her as best as I could, and always reassured her that none of it was her fault, and that I would take care of her.


But I must admit that it was very difficult for me to see someone I love so much, in so much pain and suffering every single day, and me feeling completely helpless as there wasn’t much I could do to take away her pain. The only thing I could do was just be there for Jane, hold her hand, and continue to earn a living and generate income in order to pay the Dr. bills.


Drs. were always another source of Jane’s unhappiness. She became very upset and frustrated with the Drs. she was seeing, since they all seemed to be pretty much worthless. The solution the Drs. always seem to have is to just drug her up to help deal with the pain – this was just putting a band aid over the real problems.


In the first 5 years we were married, we had an ok sex life. But there were several times where Jane would have flash backs of the terrible things that Jude (her brother), and other people have done to her in the past. This proved difficult for me, to see Jane so frightened. So during these flashbacks, I would comfort her the best that I could until it passed. Jane would regularly have nightmares where she would cry and whimper in her sleep. Understandably so, as Jane was sexually abused, and mentally tormented by her brother for several years of her childhood.


Jane eventually decided that she needed to see a therapist, however this therapist abandoned her. According to Jane, the things that she shared with the therapist were simply too much for the therapist to handle, so the therapist stopped seeing Jane. This further eroded Jane’s trust in people, and completely soured her on ever wanting to see a therapist again – and who could blame her?


Through all of this I did the best I could to help Jane, and comfort her the best way I knew how. It all became quite a burden for me, but I love Jane, so I did whatever it took to try to help. But it became quite apparent to me that she was not a happy person. From about our 6th year of marriage onward, I could see that something changed in Jane. Jane rarely smiled any more, was sick every single day, and could barely function on some days. She could barely even get out of bed in the morning without groaning in pain. This killed me to see Jane like this. On the few occasions we tried to make love, it didn’t feel right, and there were times where Jane would have a flashback, or would be in so much pain that it made me feel terrible for even trying to initiate sex.


All of this became too much for me, so I started to withdraw a bit. I immersed myself in my hobbies, and I resorted to looking at images of women on the internet in order to satisfy my libido. I am not proud of that, but I felt so guilty trying to make love to Jane, seeing as how much pain she was in, along with the flashbacks she was having, I just couldn’t get in the mood to even initiate. And even the times I did, it never felt quite right.


I feel terrible looking back on all of this, as I should have insisted that Jane and I get help. Jane is not very good at asking for help, and neither am I. It is a character flaw that I have that I am not proud of. So we tried to manage all of this on our own, and as you can imagine, it didn’t go very well. This was bigger than the two of us – we really needed help, but didn’t get it. Plus Jane pretty much despised Therapists after what happened to her (where her previous therapist abandoned her), so my thoughts were that she wouldn’t agree to getting help, even if I suggested it. I probably should have gone on my own, because looking back, I probably needed help just as much as Jane did. I have come to learn that by virtue of marrying Jane, I became what is called a “Secondary Survivor”, due to the terrible sexual abuse Jane suffered as a child, it affected me as well.


So now let’s rewind to about 10 months ago. I started to notice some more changes in Jane. I could tell that she was growing more and more distant from me. She was also very quick to anger with me, over the seemingly smallest and most insignificant things.


After trying to figure out what the heck could be going wrong, I finally just asked her. I wrote her a long, heartfelt letter, telling Jane that I love her, but it seemed that something was very wrong. I told her that she is quick to anger, and it seems like she doesn’t even want to be in my presence. I told her that I missed the intimacy we used to have, etc.


Jane ended up writing me a letter back, and I was blindsided by the contents. In summary, Jane basically told me that she has zero interest in being intimate with me. She told me that she just wants to take the animals and leave, and be alone.


I was beside myself, and never saw this coming from a mile away. I mean, I could clearly tell Jane was unhappy, but I always assumed it was because she was always so sick all of the time (and who could blame her).


Something about this letter just didn’t make sense, or feel right to me. It felt like my world was falling apart, and I desperately needed to make sense of it all. So I decided to do something I thought I would never have to do in my marriage, I started to snoop around and looking at the phone bills, and Jane's internet browsing history, etc. This is yet another thing I am not proud of, but I felt had to be done. I was shocked by what I found. Hundreds upon hundreds of text messages back and forth to some mystery phone number. Searching on her computer, I found that she had “Privacy” browsing mode enabled. This was very disturbing to me, as I didn’t think we had any secrets in our marriage, and it was apparent that Jane was obviously trying to hide something, since there was no browsing history anywhere to be found. Poking through her deleted email messages, I finally found what I feared most. Jane had been in correspondence with a person named John. I found images that he sent to her, and conversations that a man simply should not be having with another man’s wife.


I was devastated. I never felt so much pain in my entire life. The best way I can describe it is like the feelings of grief you experience when someone you love dearly dies. I didn’t confront Jane immediately with what I discovered, as I needed time to process it all, and figure out how to approach this.


I eventually got my courage up, and told Jane that I felt like something just didn’t feel right. How she could go from telling me that she loved me (not more than a month or so back from the incident), to not wanting to be around me, wanting to be alone, and having zero interest in being intimate with me. I asked her straight up if she was cheating on me. Jane exhibited anger, and acted offended that I would even ask such a question, and her answer of course was “no”. So Jane flat out lied to me – something I didn’t think she would ever be capable of.


I am not telling you these things to vilify my wife - it is just necessary to tell you these things to make it clear as to what Jane and I have been struggling with.


So I decided to contact John. I told him who I was, and I told him to cease all communications with my Jane, because I love her very much, and I want to try to make our marriage work. He obliged.


Then I went ahead and confronted Jane. I told her that I knew about John, and I told her that I contacted him, and told him to cease all communications with Jane. Jane of course broke down in tears, I could barely speak as I was so upset, and was having a full on panic attack at this point. If what Jane told me was true, she had been having an emotional affair with John for about 8 months. Jane insists that nothing physical ever happened. I suggested that we go to marriage counseling, and try to fix what has been broken. I told Jane that I love her, and that I didn’t want to lose her, and I want to try to repair our relationship, and heal so we can move on with our lives, together, once again happy. Jane at first did not agree to go to marriage counseling. But I asked her again a few days later, and she agreed to go with me.


So I made an appointment with a marriage counselor – our first appointment was two weeks from the day I scheduled it. During the two weeks leading up to our first marriage counseling session, I spoke with Jane several times, trying to make sense of everything. I repeatedly made sure that Jane understood that I love her. Jane altogether stopped telling me that she loved me in return. Every time she didn’t tell me in return that she loved me too, a little piece of my soul died.


My guard was up, and I was still hurting from the betrayal and disrespect I felt from the emotional affair, and so I was still keeping an eye on the phone bills. Sure enough, 1 day before our first marriage counseling session, I could clearly see that Jane and John were sending text messages back and forth to each other (in this instance, Jane was the one who first made contact with John).


I drove home from work that day armed with that knowledge, and I was about to tell her that I was going to file for divorce on the grounds of infidelity, but before I could do that, Jane immediately broke into tears as soon as I walked in the door. Jane told me that she contacted John to say her final goodbyes, as she (in her words) wasn’t ready for that relationship to end. Once again, devastation on my part. Right when I thought my heart couldn’t ache any more, something like this happens. But Jane promised me that that was the last time she was ever going to contact John again.


Since I love Jane, and she confessed to contacting John again before I could tell her that I discovered it on my own, I decided to move forward with the plan to see the Marriage counselor.


So Jane and I went to marriage counseling for a few months. These were some of the most difficult weeks I have ever had in my life. I had to try to keep it together at work, while at the same time selling our house, and trying to figure out if we should go through with the plan of moving to another state or not (we have had plans to relocate to another state for a long time now).


I felt that progress was made during the counseling sessions. I learned that Jane has deep seeded issues with the abuse she suffered as a child, the loss of her father, and a great anger toward her mother for not protecting her. As far as what happened that made things so broken in our marriage that she felt she needed to go outside of our marriage was as follows:


Jane said that she felt very lonely, despite being married to me. She felt that she couldn’t talk to me about her childhood past, because when she did I would get angry (which is true, I have a great deal of anger toward her brother Jude for what he did to Jane). Jane's loneliness came in due to me coping by withdrawing, and her disgust over the knowledge that I looked at images of other women on the internet.


And so the therapy sessions continued, week after week, and I felt like we were making progress. I changed everything that Jane complained about – I completely cut porn out of my life, I started to exercise, and lost 48 lbs, which in turn increased my sex drive, etc. All of the complaints Jane had, I addressed. I immersed myself in books giving marital and relationship advice. I read several other self-help books to help with the depression I was feeling, etc. But still, I could tell that Jane just wasn’t feeling for me the way I felt for her.


I could sense that Jane cared about me on some level, but I didn’t feel she was at a point where she truly loved me or respected me the way she once did, and I was beginning to think that time was likely never going to come. I would occasionally remind Jane that I loved her, but she would not return the sentiment.


So then we sold the house, and mutually decided to give it a shot by moving to another state together. I knew it was a gamble, and I suspected it was the “hail Mary” for our marriage. I was not at all under the illusion that moving to another state was going to magically fix everything, but I figured we would at least be living somewhere we would enjoy, the weather would be better on Jane’s aches and pains/joints, and perhaps we could get Jane the proper medical help she so desperately needed, etc. My hopes were that we would continue counseling once we settled in, and I kept praying that things would get better.


Well, sadly that day to resume counseling never came. After we moved, things did seem better for a while. We were getting along fine – we were going out and seeing new places, and enjoying the wonderful weather and wildlife in our new state, etc. But Jane still was not at the point where she could tell me that she loved me, and she still wasn’t willing to be intimate with me. I of course did not push the issue on either. I figured she would be intimate with me when the time was right, and she was truly ready.


Things seemed to be going ok when we moved, and we actually had intimate relations (for the first time in MANY months). I felt on top of the world, and felt that our emotional and physical bond was strengthening, and that we truly were on our way toward healing.

However, something still felt off. It still didn't feel like the Jane that I married. I went out of my way to do things to try to make Jane happy, and I have corrected the behaviors that Jane said have made her feel this way toward me. But nothing I do seems to make her happy. 

So the love making once again has completely stopped. When we go to sleep at night, Jane lays on her side of the bed just far enough away from me to make sure we aren't touching. Jane sleeps hugging her teddy bear, as if she is still a frightened little girl. Jane never tries to initiate a kiss, or a hug, or touch me in any way like she used to.


I know Jane has been very sick lately, and she has been trying to wean herself off of these terrible drugs that the pain management Drs. have her on, so out of consideration for her, I never pushed the issue for love making.


Yesterday we had a talk that didn't go very well. I asked Jane to try to help me understand how she was able to make love to me a few times, but then once again returned to not being interested any more. After a very long pause of Jane thinking how to answer the question, she told me the following:


Sorry to segue, but this first requires a preface, please be patient.


A very long time ago within the first year that Jane and I were dating, my Father apparently said some inappropriate things to her (sexual innuendo). And he also touched her in a way that Jane felt was inappropriate. Please keep in mind that Jane did NOT tell me about this back then when it happened.


Fast forward almost ten years after this incident - Jane told me about what happened. I was beside myself. Whatever small amount of respect I had left for my father disappeared. I felt terrible that Jane had to live with that for all of those years. Jane told me she never said anything to me before about it, because she didn't want to hurt the relationship my father and I had.


I had no idea what to do with this information. I felt ill. I apologized to Jane for having to go through that. I didn't know if I should confront my father or not. Out of fear and confusion, and simply not knowing what to do, I ended up not confronting my father. I comforted Jane the best that I could, and apologized to her for having to endure that.


With that story told, here is the answer Jane gave me yesterday, when I asked her why she no longer has any interest in being intimate with me:


Jane said: When I told you about what your father did to me, you didn't confront him. You are supposed to protect me. I no longer feel safe with you, I simply feel nothing for you any longer. I just want to be alone. The only reason I had sex with you is because I know that is what you wanted, so I accommodated - but it still didn't feel right to me.


I suspect that (due to me not protecting Jane by confronting my father) she now lumps me into the same category as her mother, since her mother didn’t protect her from Jude (her brother that sexually abused her for years) the way that she should have.


This took breath away. I had no idea that Jane felt this way. I apologized profusely for not confronting my father. And I told Jane I had no idea that she felt this way. I asked Jane why she didn't think to bring this up during our therapy/counseling sessions, and she said "Because I didn't think you gave a damn about it". I told Jane that she couldn't be more wrong, and that of course I care about something like that.


I asked Jane if it was ok if we started to see a therapist again, because I told her that this is something we simply cannot do on our own. Jane became angry with the idea, and she said she is no longer interested in seeing therapists. She just wants to be alone.


I suspect that Jane has a lot of issues that need to be dealt with from her abusive childhood past. I genuinely want to get her help, and I have told her this many times in the past, but she says she no longer wants my help. Jane says she will seek out help on her own. So after many tears and me having another panic attack, I relented and told Jane that we can start the divorce process since that is what she wants (even though it is not what I want).


Since I no longer want Jane to feel uncomfortable and unsafe around me, I have removed myself from the bedroom. We are living in a 2 story home, so I have set up a living area on the bottom floor for myself, so Jane can sleep alone in the bed at night. I see no point in me sleeping in the same bed with Jane, if she feels uncomfortable with it.


I am now more confused and upset than ever. I am still trying to make sense out of what my life has become, and how my relationship with my Jane has gotten to this point. I am devastated, and I do not want to lose Jane. I genuinely love her, and never meant to hurt her. But I have to accept the reality (that I have been fighting against for so long now) that Jane no longer loves me, no longer feels safe with me, is no longer attracted to me, no longer wants to be intimate with me, and no longer respects me.


I just want Jane to be happy, and she clearly isn't, being married to me. So I think it is time to just let her go. I love her dearly, and I will miss her so very much, but I suppose that's my problem to deal with, not hers. I know she will be taking the cats, and I know she will want to take the Dog (Fido), whom I also love dearly and will miss so very much because I am so bonded with him. I can't deny Jane taking the Dog, since she feels like the animals are the only beings left on earth that she can trust.


But my heart aches just thinking about no longer having Jane and Fido in my life. I genuinely hope she goes on to find happiness, and gets the help that I suspect she so desperately needs.


I feel like I have done everything I humanly could to attempt to save this marriage, but it appears like it simply isn't meant to be. I honestly want to continue to try to do whatever it takes to save this marriage, but Jane is no longer interested in trying to save the marriage – she just wants to file the divorce papers, be done with it, and be alone.


So I think what I have to do at this point is get some help for myself, because I don't feel like I can do this on my own. I need to figure out how to deal with the grief and pain and heartache I am feeling. I need to figure out how to regain my self-esteem since it was destroyed due to the emotional affair. I need to figure out how I am ever going to have the ability to trust again. I need to figure out how to deal with the anger I am feeling toward my father, and Jane's mother and brother for playing a very large role in ultimately destroying my marriage. I need to figure out how to deal with the anger I feel toward John. I feel broken. I feel defeated. And I feel like a complete and utter failure as a husband.


I had to tell my story here, as I honestly don’t feel like I have anyone else I can share this with (other than a therapist). Jane became my entire world, and my best friend - she (and she alone) is the person I would talk to about things that were bothering me, but I no longer have that with Jane…


I need it to be clear that I do NOT want this divorce. I love Jane dearly, and I want our marriage to get back to the happy times we once had. I am willing to do the work to heal and to make that happen, and to get us the help we would need. But if Jane doesn’t want to participate, I don’t have much of a choice in the matter. It feels as if Jane has completely checked out at this point, and I want her suffering to end.


I see no point in continuing in a Marriage where one person is in love (me), and the other (Jane) isn't. I can’t make Jane love me – she either does, or she doesn’t. And all things indicate that she is completely and utterly done with our Marriage. I tried my best to make it work, but I have failed. It is sadly time for me to bow out. I tried my best to be a good husband to Jane, but it apparently wasn’t enough.


I am having an very difficult time trying to comprehend that this is my new reality. But I have no choice but to somehow find some way to manage. Jane printed out the initial paperwork for us to sign in order to get the divorce process started. I haven’t signed the paperwork yet, because I am still in shock over this whole thing. I think I need a day or two to process all of this, and convince myself that this is my new reality…


Right now I feel paralyzed, and don't know what to do next.



Thanks for listening.

Any and all advice and comments would be greatly appreciated and welcomed.

I would be happy to answer any questions you may have for me in order to help you help me. I am an open book.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Oh and a few more things worth mentioning. I have been lurking here for quite a while now. I have read several books suggested by you all:

Married Mans Sex Life Primer

No More Mr. Nice Guy - This is definitely me, and I am working on myself to make the changes suggested in the book.

The 5 Love Languages - great book, I wish someone gave this to me as a wedding gift.

I also did the 180, but as you can see, I didn't do a very good job.

But what good did come out the 180 is that I have been exercising over the last several months, and I have lost 48 lbs.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

I counted "I love her" 4x.

I counted "I love Jane" 3x.

Their is someone that is being neglected - Can you tell me who that person is?


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Oh, sorry that wasn't clear.

"Jane" and "Her" and "she" are all the same person - my wife.

I will go back and edit my post to make some instances of "her" and "she" to Jane to hopefully make it more clear.


Summary of the players involved in my story:

Me - the husband.

Jane - My wife

John - the man with whom Jane had an 8 month emotional affair with.

Fido - My Dog

Jude - Jane's brother who is responsible for sexually abusing, and mentally tormenting, Jane for several years of Jane's childhood.

Hopefully that will clear everything up.

Thanks!



ReGroup said:


> I counted "I love her" 4x.
> 
> I counted "I love Jane" 3x.
> 
> Their is someone that is being neglected - Can you tell me who that person is?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> My wife wants a divorce, and I need to share this with someone because I feel so alone with this.
> 
> ...


What was life like in your family of origin?

It sounds like you learned pretty young that you don't count.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Will Overcome said:


> Oh, sorry that wasn't clear.
> 
> "Jane" and "Her" are both the same person - my wife.


I know.

The person being neglected is yourself.

FYI: Congrats on the weight loss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

She is playing the victim and you are playing the rescuer. 
She has an illness and was abused. That does not mean she has the right to cheat on you.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> I know.
> 
> The person being neglected is yourself.
> 
> ...


Oh, I see. That went right over my head. You are 100% right. I suffer terribly from the "Nice Guy" syndrome, so it makes perfect sense that I completely missed the point you were trying to make.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

My Father was a womanizer, and cheated on my mother several times. He was a pothead, and wasn't around much. When he was around, he didn't ever do many "Fatherly" type things with me. He wasn't physically abusive, or anything like that, but he wasn't much of a father figure to me.

My Mother was (is) an Alcoholic with a very "addictive" personality. I remember seeing my mom fall down drunk several times in my childhood, and I can recall one time when I was about 12 years old, when my father had me hold my Mother's head up out of the toilet while she vomited, so she wouldn't drown. I suspect my mother turned to drinking as a way to cope with my Father cheating on her all the time. When she was coherent, my Mom did the best she could to be a good mother to me.

My parents "found" religion, and supposedly cleaned up their acts. I know my Dad never secretly changed. He got away from the drugs, but still cheated on my mother. My Mother truly did quit drinking, and without the help of AA, which is quite impressive I guess. At this point I got religion crammed down my throat, and was brainwashed into thinking that premarital sex would send me to hell, etc. As strange as it may sound, during this religious phase, our family unit was the least dysfunctional it has ever been.

From the age of about 11 onward, I pretty much raised myself, and became very independent and introverted/shy. Because we moved so many times during my grade and middle school years, I went out of my way to not make any close friends, because I knew they would eventually go away when we moved again, and it hurt too much to keep losing friends like that.

I never asked my parents for much - If I wanted something, I would get a job (paper route, etc) and save my money to buy things for myself.

Sorry to ramble on... But to address the original question about me not counting:

For my mother - when she was coherent, I think I counted to her.

For my Father - not so much. I recall a time when I was around 11 years old, when my father said to me "Why can't you be more like Bruce?" Bruce was a neighbor's child around the same age I was. That has stuck with me for some reason.

So yeah, I guess my family wasn't exactly 
Leave it to Beaver".




Conrad said:


> What was life like in your family of origin?
> 
> It sounds like you learned pretty young that you don't count.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> She is playing the victim and you are playing the rescuer.
> She has an illness and was abused. That does not mean she has the right to cheat on you.


You are 100% right, and it hurts like hell that she did cheat on me.
But I don't think there is anything I did that can justify her cheating on me, and it hurts like hell to know that she did cheat on me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> My Father was a womanizer, and cheated on my mother several times. He was a pothead, and wasn't around much. When he was around, he didn't ever do many "Fatherly" type things with me. He wasn't physically abusive, or anything like that, but he wasn't much of a father figure to me.
> 
> My Mother was (is) an Alcoholic with a very "addictive" personality. I remember seeing my mom fall down drunk several times in my childhood, and I can recall one time when I was about 12 years old, when my father had me hold my Mother's head up out of the toilet while she vomited, so she wouldn't drown. I suspect my mother turned to drinking as a way to cope with my Father cheating on her all the time. When she was coherent, my Mom did the best she could to be a good mother to me.
> 
> ...


Have you had any individual counseling?


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Will Overcome said:


> Jane became my entire world, and my best friend - she (and she alone) is the person I would talk to about things that were bothering me...


Do you think thee above is what Jane wants in a significant other?

Are you ready to bring her down from that pedestal you so firmly placed her on?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Do you think thee above is what Jane wants in a significant other?
> 
> Are you ready to bring her down from that pedestal you so firmly placed her on?


Sounds more like a mother figure than a wife.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Have you had any individual counseling?



No, but I know that I really need it. I probably have for a very long time now, and wish I got help sooner.

I am currently shopping around for a therapist. One has called me back so far, I will see what the others say during the phone consultation, and pick one and go from there.

I need help with accepting this divorce as a reality. I need help in figuring out how to deal with the grief and despair I am feeling. I need to figure out how I will ever trust again. I need to figure out how to regain my self esteem. And I need to figure out how to let go of the anger I am feeling toward the people who contributed to the end of my marriage (including the anger I am feeling toward myself).

The sad part is, I don't really have anyone I feel close enough with to lean on for support. My parents have completely driven the bus off of the cliff, and I no longer have any sort of close relationship with them. My parents FINALLY divorced after 40 some years of marriage (LONG overdue). Mom is now hooked on prescription drugs, and so I have removed myself from that situation. My father got married almost immediately, so he is tied up with his new life now, not to mention he is TERRIBLE with discussing emotional type problems like this.

Both of my Grandparents have passed away.


I don't really have any "best" friends, and for the friends I do have, I would never ever burden them with my problems.

I am close to a few on my relatives, but I am too ashamed to tell them about all of this.


I just moved to a new state (Colorado, which I really am enjoying), but I haven't made an friends here yet, and I have no family out here.

My wife is whom I considered my best friend, and the one I always confided in, but I no longer have that.

So yeah, I'm in quite a pickle. Just trying to keep it together long enough to fake my way through work, and get myself into therapy.

My Anxiety over all of this, and thinking about the future also has me overwhelmed. I am 43 years old, and the thought of starting all over again frightens me. On the bright side, I am a fairly intelligent and good looking man, have a full head of hair (albeit salt and peppered with grey) and I am now in really good shape, generate a nice income, am good with finances and investing, etc. So if my self esteem and self confidence is ever restored, and I tried dating again, maybe I could meet a nice woman...

I know I am getting WAY ahead of myself here, but these are the types of thoughts that are keeping me awake at night. I hate to admit it, but the thought of being alone (after being married to my wife for almost 11 years) has me terrified.

I am trying to look on the brighter side of things, but the darker side of things keep overwhelming me.

I guess there is some good news (if I can even call it that):

1) I am still breathing, and (physically) healthy.
2) We have no children.
3) We have zero debt.
4) We no longer own a house together (we are renting).
5) We do not hate each other, so this could be an "Uncontested" divorce, and we could probably do it without getting lawyers involved.
6) The divorce will not be toxic or acrimonious. It will likely be very amicable.
7) Separating the property we do have will be simple enough.


With regard to the logistics of the divorce, the few thoughts that are eating me alive are:

1) I love my Dog to death, but I know that my wife will want to take him with her, and that is going to leave a very large hole in my heart. I know that may sound silly, but I love that dog, and have grown very attached to him over the years.

2) We were doing amazing with our finances, and well on our way to our goal of buying our dream house, outright with cash. If we divorce, all of those hopes and dreams, and all of the hard work we have done to get to this point will be completely obliterated.

3) I am very upset over the fact that I will likely be held responsible for paying her alimony for God knows how long. I feel like I will be getting the shaft here. She cheated on me, I always treated her with respect and love. It just seems so unfair that a large portion of my income will go to a wife who cheated on me, fell out of love with me, and walked away (gave up on) our marriage.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Things became quite difficult when Jane fell very ill.... The solution the Drs. always seem to have is to just drug her up to help deal with the pain.


Will, what exactly was the diagnosis for the illness causing all her pain? Was it fibromyalgia (a disorder in which pain moves from one part of the body to the other)?


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Do you think thee above is what Jane wants in a significant other?
> 
> Are you ready to bring her down from that pedestal you so firmly placed her on?


Apparently that is not what Jane wants in a significant other.

And you are absolutely correct - I put her so high up on a pedestal that when she fell, it has hurt me in unspeakable ways. I need to change my paradigm such that I will never repeat this pattern again. I don't ever want to feel this way again. I really need to employ the techniques as described in "No More Mr. Nice Guy".


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sounds more like a mother figure than a wife.


Perhaps you are right. She may as well have been, we didn't really have any sort of quality physical relationship. But she was a good housekeeper, and always cooked nice meals for me, and did the laundry, and ran errands for me, packed my lunch, etc...

So yeah, in a dysfunctional kind of way, I guess it was like having a motherly type of roommate and friend, at least for the last couple of years of our marriage.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> I don't really have any "best" friends, and for the friends I do have, I would never ever burden them with my problems.
> 
> I am close to a few on my relatives, but I am too ashamed to tell them about all of this.


I want you to read these two sentences as if you were cruising in an airplane at 50,000 feet.

Could you conclude anything about the person that wrote them?

What would you tell a friend who said this about himself?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Perhaps you are right. She may as well have been, we didn't really have any sort of quality physical relationship. But she was a good housekeeper, and always cooked nice meals for me, and did the laundry, and ran errands for me, packed my lunch, etc...
> 
> So yeah, in a dysfunctional kind of way, I guess it was like having a motherly type of roommate and friend, at least for the last couple of years of our marriage.


This is called insight. I don't think she signed up to be the mother stand-in for the one you missed out on.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Will, what exactly was the diagnosis for the illness causing all her pain? Was it fibromyalgia (a disorder in which pain moves from one part of the body to the other)?


BINGO! That's one (among many) things that she has going on.


Takes a deep breath....

Let's see here:

Fibromyalgia.

Hashimoto's disease / thyroid problems.

Degenrative Disc disorder.

Chiari Malformation.

She supposedly has Lupus (although I don't trust any of these Drs. any more - they are all starting to seem like Quacks to me).

Rheumatoid arthritis.

Spinal problems which causes severe nerve pains (this is a big one). She basically has NO disc between the bottom two vertebrate of her spine. So it is just bone grinding on bone, and pinching nerves, etc.

This sometimes causes her to feel not much sensation in her lady parts.

I know there is more, I just can't think of what else she has been diagnosed with at the moment.

She basically has the health of a 90 year old woman. And she is only 37 years old. She really got dealt a bad hand, and I feel terrible for her. It is very upsetting to see the ****tail of medication they have her on. There must be 3 dozen medicine bottles going at any given time...


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Neither do I, but sadly, I guess that's what it kind of turned into due in part to the fact that we were basically unable to maintain any sort of healthy sexual relationship. She overcompensated by doing the things that she WAS able to do for me, since sex wasn't one of those things. So she nurtured me in other ways.



Conrad said:


> This is called insight. I don't think she signed up to be the mother stand-in for the one you missed out on.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I want you to read these two sentences as if you were cruising in an airplane at 50,000 feet.
> 
> Could you conclude anything about the person that wrote them?
> 
> What would you tell a friend who said this about himself?


I would conclude that he has a problem with letting people get too close to him, and perhaps has abandonment and trust issues.

Having just finished reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy", I would tell him to read that book, and employ the techniques found within.

P.S. Conrad, are you a practicing therapist? The questions you are asking me somehow feel like questions a therapist would be asking... Just curious!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> I would conclude that he has a problem with letting people get too close to him, and perhaps has abandonment and trust issues.
> 
> Having just finished reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy", I would tell him to read that book, and employ the techniques found within.
> 
> P.S. Conrad, are you a practicing therapist? The questions you are asking me somehow feel like questions a therapist would be asking... Just curious!


My interpretation would be that he's decided to earn love from others - as he doesn't feel worthy.

So, he's happy to put his needs aside... his need for friendship, his need for physical intimacy, his need for fulfilling hobbies, and his need for satisfying career - in an effort to put a smile on the face of another.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> My interpretation would be that he's decided to earn love from others - as he doesn't feel worthy.
> 
> So, he's happy to put his needs aside... his need for friendship, his need for physical intimacy, his need for fulfilling hobbies, and his need for satisfying career - in an effort to put a smile on the face of another.


And when that love isn't reciprocated?

BOILING ANGER

Mr. Nice Guy


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Conrad said:


> My interpretation would be that he's decided to earn love from others - as he doesn't feel worthy.
> 
> So, he's happy to put his needs aside... his need for friendship, his need for physical intimacy, his need for fulfilling hobbies, and his need for satisfying career - in an effort to put a smile on the face of another.


Yes, you are probably right.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Yes, you are probably right.


Find an IFS Therapist

These folks can help.

It will be helpful to you to search and identify the "parts" of your personality that are holding you back.

Once you nurture and care for yourself, true peace will settle upon you and you'll be able to chart your course for the future.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Will, I asked about the fibromyalgia because it seems to be quite strongly associated with people having strong traits of a personality disorder -- e.g., traits of BPD (Borderline PD) or AvPD (Avoidant PD). The association with BPD, for example, is discussed by Dr. Heller at Is there a Link Between BPD and Fibromyalgia? * Is there a Link Between BPD and Fibromyalgia? – Dr. Leland Heller is a family physician who has treated thousands of patients with the Borderline Personality Disorder. BPD is a medical disorder an. It also is discussed by the AAPEL at AAPEL - BPD and somatoform disorder.

Another reason I mention BPD is that childhood sexual abuse also is strongly associated with it. Significantly, most children experiencing such abuse do not develop BPD or another PD. Such abuse in childhood, however, greatly raises the child's risk for developing strong BPD traits. Dr. Salters-Pedniault discusses this strong association at The Relationship Between Child Abuse and Borderline Personality Disorder. Similarly, Drs. McClean and Gallop discuss it at PsychiatryOnline | American Journal of Psychiatry | Implications of Childhood Sexual Abuse for Adult Borderline Personality Disorder and Complex Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.

A third reason I mention BPD (and AvPD) is your observation that your W generally is distrustful of other people. She does not trust the therapists or doctors, for example. The inability to trust others is one of the traits of BPD and AvPD.

A fourth reason is your statement that "Jane sleeps hugging her teddy bear, as if she is still a frightened little girl." Of course, hugging a teddy bear does not, by itself, imply that someone has BPD. I nonetheless note that, because untreated BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old, and because they usually had a bad childhood, it is common for an adult BPDer to try to create the happy childhood she missed by collecting stuffed animals or toys.

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD and AvPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD and AvPD are said to be "spectrum disorders," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD and AvPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD or AvPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.

I therefore suggest you read about BPD and AvPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. I suggest you begin with Shari Schreiber's description of "waif" BPDers at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to other good online resources. Take care, Will.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> And when that love isn't reciprocated?
> 
> BOILING ANGER
> 
> Mr. Nice Guy


But, the broth needs to simmer awhile for that to show itself.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Will, take these tips and resources and keep them to yourself.

Don't talk to your wife about it.

You can't fix her. Fix yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Will, take these tips and resources and keep them to yourself.
> 
> Don't talk to your wife about it.
> 
> ...


I'll go a bit further.

Your entire relationship has been about trying to fix her.

It didn't work and the reason it didn't work has nothing to do with you "pushing the wrong button".

Set yourself free from that impossible outcome and observe how she responds.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr. Will Overcome
Have you notice how you are agreeing with all of the advice given to you?
I find this endearing but a bit strange. I agree with the other posters that you need to get yourself in therapy. You had a rough childhood. Do not feel sorry for yourself, YOU deserve happiness. You deserve to be someone's whole world!

I was broken once, my ex was broken as well. Two broken pieces cannot make a whole.... 
Your wife was broken and she does not want to fix herself. You too seem to be broken, the main difference is that you have the ability to fix yourself.
Please do so. Please help yourself, and perhaps when you are whole you will be able to fix Jane.

Best of luck to you


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I have scheduled an appointment with a therapist for this Friday.

I need to get myself some help. I am in the grieving process, and I think I need to deal with that first, and get through this "acceptance" phase that I am losing my wife and my dog and there is nothing I can do about it. I need to accept that I have done everything I possibly could to try to save this marriage, and it is now out of my hands.

I think I need to get through the acceptance phase before I am in the right state of mind to sign the divorce paperwork.

I need some sort of game plan moving forward, but I am currently feeling crippled and paralyzed by thoughts of grief over losing my family. The only time I am not feeling sad or depressed is when I am asleep.

It is hard for me to admit it, but I know that my wife has mental issues that I can't fix, and it is not my responsibility to fix them. Her family has a history of mental issues as well. Until she can get the proper help she needs, I don't think she will ever be happy.

My wife is broken both mentally and physically, and I cannot fix her, and I am not responsible for fixing her, or for her happiness. For our entire marriage I focused so intently on trying to make my wife happy (which turned out to be an impossible task), that I neglected my own happiness.


So my game plan is:

1) Get through the "acceptance" phase of the grieving process over losing my family.

2) Sign the Divorce paperwork, and get that process started.

3) While waiting on the 90 day "cooling off" period for the divorce to proceed, I will follow all of the steps for the 180 to the letter.

4) Re-read "No More Mr. Nice Guy", and begin to learn how to employ the techniques described in the book.

5) Continue to see a therapist to help me through all of this.


Any other advice or suggestions?

Thank you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.
> 
> I have scheduled an appointment with a therapist for this Friday.
> 
> ...


The objective of your therapy should be to recognize and acknowledge your own pos tendencies in relationships.


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

Conrad said:


> The objective of your therapy should be to recognize and acknowledge your own pos tendencies in relationships.


Forgive my ignorance, what is "pos"?

Thank you.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Will Overcome said:


> Forgive my ignorance, what is "pos"?
> 
> Thank you.


Piece of Sh*t


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## Will Overcome (Apr 1, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Piece of Sh*t


Wow, ok. Harsh.

I think I am already on my way to recognizing (and acknowledging) my "piece of ****" tendencies in relationships.

I suffer from "Mr Nice Guy" syndrome.

I neglect my own needs because I am always so focused on making others happy.

I suffer from low self esteem, and lack confidence in myself.

I have trust issues, and abandonment issues.

I'm a fixer, and seem to gravity toward women that have baggage, mental issues, physical issues, etc, so I can help fix them. This absolutely needs to stop.

Maybe there is more that will come out of the therapy sessions, but I guess that's a good start so far.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Will Overcome said:


> Wow, ok. Harsh.
> 
> I think I am already on my way to recognizing (and acknowledging) my "piece of ****" tendencies in relationships.
> 
> ...


Anthony DeMello....

I'm going to write a book someday and the title will be I'm an Ass, You're an Ass. That's the most liberating, wonderful thing in the world, when you openly admit you're an ass. It's wonderful. When people tell me, "You're wrong" I say, "What can you expect of an ass?"

My experience is that it's precisely the ones who don't know what to do with this life who are all hot and bothered about what they are going to do with another life. One sign that you're awakened is that you don't give a damn about what's going to happen in the next life. You're not bothered about it; you don't care. You are not interested, period.

Do you know what eternal life is? You think it's everlasting life. But your own theologians will tell you that that is crazy, because everlasting is still within time. It is time perduring forever. Eternal means timeless — no time. The human mind cannot understand that. The human mind can understand time and can deny time. What is timeless is beyond our comprehension. Yet the mystics tell us that eternity is right now. How's that for good news? It is right now. People are so distressed when I tell them to forget their past. They're crazy! Just drop it! When you hear "Repent for your past," realize it's a great religious distraction from waking up. Wake up! That's what repent means. Not "weep for your sins.": Wake up! understand, stop all the crying. Understand! Wake up!


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Ahhh.... Awakening


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