# First Joint Therapy Session After EA/Update



## ConfusedinColumbus (Feb 20, 2009)

My original thread was getting a little long in the tooth, so I figured I would start a new one here....for background/details, check it out here:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/4197-wife-male-coworker.html

BEWARE: LENGTHY AND DISJOINTED UPATE AHEAD... 

First, I will add a detail, and a very important one at that, which has to date been absent: I walked in on my wife engaged in a long kiss with one of our friends on Christmas Eve 2007 (in our own house) - I didn't see it, but I heard it and they stopped just as I turned the corner....but I knew what happened. They both were very drunk at the time and my wife denied it until recently - at first she said it wasn't her fault, it was his! This ruined Christmas and of course on Christmas 2008 she exchanged over 50 texts with TOM from the most recent EA, retroactively ruining Christmas 2008. I add this detail now, so as to better explain the difficulty I am having in forgiving and trusting my wife...and the thought of her kissing another man in my house angers me beyond belief...and of course begs the question, is she will kiss another man in my house (while drunk), what will she do outside the house or when I am not around? (side note: my wife lost a friend because of what happened on Christmas Eve 2007, in that once the wife of the guy who she kissed found out, she hasn't spoken with my wife since - she just found out recently).

Since the last blow-up a few weeks ago (see above thread), things had been moving in a positive direction (she professed her sorrow, admitted most of the problems at hand were her doing, vowed to work on getting my trust back, etc - all via text and never in person, but I will take what I can get as these were things I needed to hear - all the while I continued to work on the things I believe needed addressing by me). We remained and continued to be intimate numerous times/week...to my surprise, this aspect of our marriage hasn't taken much of a nose dive.

Thursday was our first couples' session (my wife has had 4-5 sessions by herself and I met with the therapist once prior...again see above thread for details). In sum, the thrust of the session seemed to focus on what I need to work on, rather that my wife...huh? I wasn't expecting my wife to fall on her knees, sobbing, and swear her love and fidelity to me, but I surely wasn't expecting the majority of the time spent discussing what my wife perceived as my shortcomings (I have previously and continue to acknowledge the need for me to work on aspects of the marriage). The therapist, who previously said my wife's actions were "best case scenario, an emotional affair", kept referring to it as a "distraction"...WTF? After hearing this a few times, I chimed in and said "can we please call it what it is, an emotional affair"?...I told her (therapist) that it seems as if we were down playing what happened here...lying, deceit, betrayal...repeat. The therapist then later referred to it (EA) as "...what you call an emotional affair..." I called "time out" again, as said.."wait a minute, you yourself called it an emotional affair", not just me. <sigh>

Don't misunderstand, this wasn't an entirely adversarial session and I repeatedly fell on my sword for the areas that I need to work on for my wife, valid or not. My wife said she has seen in an improvement with the respects to the aforementioned areas...then it turned into why this isn't (valid or not) my "default position" as it was the EA/etc that triggered a change in me. <sigh> The therapist then hinted that maybe this crisis moved me to action and asked why my current position wasn't my default position...WTF???? Further, the therapist started to go down the road that my wife is intelligent, and if she wanted to keep these "distractions" secret she could have...suggesting that she did it in the open so I would find out. Double WTF? I said I disagreed, as I stumbled upon her and our friend kissing and I was in the dark about the EA for months before accidently finding out about it...she went to great lengths to hide it from me with lies, denials, passwords, deleted texts, etc. <sigh>

The therapist suggested compartmentalizing and shelving the EA and the kissing another guy episode and its associated baggage for now, while we focus on the fixing/strenghening the marriage. I am onboard with this, but voiced how at times it is difficult for me to do so...as the repeated cycle of deceit, lies and betrayal - all because of other men - results in a no trust on my part and as a man/husband, at times make me really, really angry. I also said my instincts tell me I don't know the whole story as, I have an uneasy feeling that there may be more to the story (ie., something physical may have happened). My wife didn't like hearing this at all, but did nothing to assure me to the contrary.

Afterward, we went out for a drink which was a little awkward, as small talk seemed forced. We went home, hung out with the kids and watched a movie. Things are a little tense now, I didn't sleep well Thurs. night resulting in a somewhat condescending "oh, am I in trouble again now?" on Fri AM....<sigh>

Not once during the session did I hear "I love you, I am so sorry for doing this, etc". I see that I can't hang this over her head and remind her of her infidelity if I want this to work, at some point I have to forgive and move on...but the damage is done and she will always adorn this Scarlet Letter. If I had proof something more happened (physical), I would be gone the same day and she knows it.

Last night (Fri) turned into a huge knock-down-drag-out fight (figuratively) after I learned that she and TOM would be spending some time together next week at work (with others). This is not entirely required, as during the EA she recommended him for a project and she naturally volunteered to assist. Next week entails a group (including my wife and TOM), spending a couple hours together working on this project. I flipped. She says she works with the guy and asked what is she supposed to do? I told her that she should excuse herself from the project and not have any contact with TOM - she says not possible as they work together and see each other everyday. <sigh>

Of course, no good was going to come of this, especially in light of the fact she had a few glasses of wine in her and I was really agitated...a recipe for an unpleasant evening....and it was. Some very mean and cruel things were said by both of us, with her again threatening and then demanding divorce. She told me that she wanted me to sleep in another room/etc. - I refused and tell her she can sleep in another room (which she did). She also informed me that she has consulted with two lawyers and is prepared for an ugly battle for the kids, house, etc. UGH. Yet another example of her lying to me, as she had previously assured me she had not retained counsel - which I pointed out to her. She continues to lie. My knee-jerk reaction of course was a big "F you" and again threw it her face how not only did she cheat on her first husband, but she cheated on me and will have to explain as much to our kids....you can imagine how that went over.

During this heated battle, she again took the position that she had done nothing wrong, they (TOM from the EA) were only friends and nothing happened....she now seems to have returned to the this position of complete denial.

Haven't spoken at all this AM.

Analysis of phone/text records from last PM indicates that she is seeking guidance/advice from a twice divorced and now single mom of three, who, according to her ex-husband, had an affair....birds of a feather? Ugh.

Not sure where this is going, but after this two month emotional roller coaster, I am running on empty. I am not sure I will ever be able to trust her again and the thought of her spending time with TOM at work really, really, pains me.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> My original thread was getting a little long in the tooth, so I figured I would start a new one here....for background/details, check it out here:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/4197-wife-male-coworker.html
> 
> BEWARE: LENGTHY AND DISJOINTED UPATE AHEAD...
> 
> ...


She is driving you with threats. She has already had sex with him. Your counselor said that at best it was an EA, but in truth, she is probably shielding you from the fact it was a PA as well. She is the cheater. And because it seems that she isn't to invested in the marriage right now, that she is willing to divorce (threat only, I believe). Do you hear what she is saying. She is willing to get a divorce and fight for the kid. So you had better let her have her EA or PA, because she will end things. You have not called her bluff. She is a serial cheater. She cheated on her first husband, she is now cheating on you.

If you were interested in doing what is right (which i think would be best for your self respect and probably your marriage), you should out her at work to her employer. All your family and her family. She is leading you around by your nose. Why would you want to stay with such an obvious bi*ch anyways? She does not respect you. She is using you, and you just sit there and take it. I mean its your life.

*When you get tired of taking her crap, you should out her like I told you. And you should be the one to file for divorce. When you do file. You need to have her served at her work place. And you need the server to say out loud that "I am here to serve ***** with divorce papers" So that it is outed at work. *

You said you don't know where this is going. Unless she becomes a mascara and snot running mess with contrition, I think you know where this is going. You cannot continue to dance around with her. File for divorce, so you can financially protect yourself (you don't have to sign it). You need to bring this to a head. She is a serial cheater who will not admit to cheating again. Tell your kids that mommy will not stop seeing her new boyfriend and that you can't take it any more. You are no closer to resolution then you were over two months ago. good luck.


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## Gordy (Apr 26, 2009)

Right now there are no consequences for your wifes actions exept you getting angry at her and the exposure to om Wife, the exposure to OM wife alone is not enough.

You really need to expose this behaviour to her HR department at work and also to Friends and Family, she needs to feel the consequences of her actions.

Your Wife will be furious at the exposure but you can deal with your Wifes anger your marriage wont survive with om in it.

There is basicly no chance of reconsiliation while your Wife works with the OM as she is in daily contact with him, for R to work she must have no Contact.

That means looking for another Job or transfering to another department far away from OM.

Im not sure Marriage Counselling will do you any good as the biggest problem you have is your Wife's EA with the OM, you cant R with 3 people in a Marriage.


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## reidqa01 (Apr 26, 2009)

Big guy,

Tell your wife to go F herself and move on.

Now that is counseling and it is free, you will not beleive how much better you will feel.

What is missing in this thread is to tell the wife hit the road with the OM.

Man this thread is what I hate the most, face it feel it love the hate and grow stronger using it.


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## ConfusedinColumbus (Feb 20, 2009)

While I do not accept all premises and related suggestions, I do nonetheless appreciate the frank advice.

We had a long and serious talk "sans kids" on Sat afternoon and to update (in no particular order of importance):


1. She has excused herself from the project and as such, will not be spending time with TOM this week. I told she CANNOT spend ANY time with TOM. A simple "hello" in the halls is all this acceptable.

2. She again said she is committed to making the marriage work, living within identified boundaries/loves me/nothing physical with TOM or anybody else

3. We were intimate numerous times over the weekend

4. Another joint therapy session scheduled for next week

5. Explained that I do not trust her and likely sometime before I do (she responded that she understand and again committed to earning my trust back)

6. She has NOT retained counsel (heat of battle threats)

7. Said she does NOT want a divorce

8. She makes poor decisions when drinking


To some of the points raised by INITFORTHEDURATION, GORDY, AND READQA01:

Her actions have indeed had consequences (e.g., her family knows, my family knows, the TOM's wife knows, she lost a good friend because of the Christmas Eve 2007 episode, I confronted the TOM, etc). She was absolutely mortified about me "outing her" to family, friends, and the TOM's wife (see previous thread for some details). I believe doing so was absolutely the right thing, as it brought everything to a head (in particular confronting the TOM and his wife) and the embarrassment and concern on her part after learning that family/friends were in-the-know was genuine.

To the best of my knowledge, she is no longer in email/phone/text contact with TOM (and has not been for some time). She has told me as much and I don't see anything to the contrary (I am considerably more savvy about these modes of communication than she).

I would have never known about the aforementioned project with the TOM if she had not told me...to her credit (believe me, I am not giving that out much these days). However, as I explained to her, she should have excused herself from the project and then told me about it...I would have been quite pleased...but that wasn't so and it it resulted in a big fight.

I have previously identified and made radio contact with an attorney and will retain if/when necessary.

Taking it one day at a time...but my energy and desire to make this work is indeed finite. 

CC


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey CC,

Sorry to see you are still on that rollercoaster. Still can’t get over the similarities in how these things unfortunately unfold.

So here’s my piece; prognosis isn’t great, but it certainly seems that you are both taking the correct steps in attempting to address it.

Here is the important piece. The therapist tried to highlight it, but did a crappy job. Shelving the kiss and EA sounds dismissive – that would piss me off too. But the big picture is the marriage. Your wife feels like something is missing, and the question is ‘what?’ and ‘why?’. Why the hell would she choose to kiss another man? Why did she feel compelled to carry on an inappropriate relationship with a co-worker. Call it an emotional affair, text buddies, friends, it doesn’t matter – it crossed a line. (The therapist was likely trying to avoid taking _your_ side by calling it an emotional affair if for the last 5 sessions, your wife has been telling her it wasn’t.)

An affair is a symptom of something being absent. And even more important to get your head around, is that it may have absolutely nothing to do with you. What she believes is missing, may or may not relate to your behavior in the marriage – in spite of what she says. That was certainly the case with me. 

It sounds like both of you have identified personal issues that diminished your relationship. I also get the sense that there is still willingness, or the _appearance_ of willingness to address those issues.

Here is where I will offer caution: believe me, I will be the biggest cheerleader for any couple that is willing to do what needs be done to save their relationship and marriage.

My wife wanted to make the issue go away, not resolve it. Her belief was that if we could get back to a comfortable place – meaning that I wasn’t confronting her, that she would have the best of both worlds. Placate me to make the marriage work, but doing nothing to address the underlying issues of her behavior in the first place and continue the affair. 

Best advice I can give you, is to do the things that you have acknowledged or agreed to. Do them willingly, lovingly if possible. If there is parity between the two of you, she will do the same. You will know it. You will feel it. So will she. Hopefully, both of you have already experienced this to some degree.

What becomes difficult when you are in the midst of all of this turmoil, is being able to clearly recognize when enough is enough. There is a point where working at it is doing more harm than good for the well-being of yourself, your wife, and your kids. It’s a personal threshold, and hopefully isn’t defined by an angry event where a few glasses of wine are a factor. It could be another betrayal, or simply that despite her best efforts, you believe that there _will_ be another betrayal. Don’t expect that it will be over by consensus. Know your limit. My sense is, that given what you have said about her previously, and despite her posturing, she won’t be the one making the ultimate decision.


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