# Cheaters be cheated



## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Reading these stories I can see lot of judgement coming my way but pls hear me out. My story might be long but you need to know the past to understand the present. Like many of you here I recently learned what it feels like to be betrayed. I have been with my wife for 7 years, married 4, no kids.

Looking back, when we first started together I thought our story was very romantic I was in a fog stat ( I am hopeless romantic) but it probably wasn't the best start to a successful relationship. We met at work and I was crazy about her since day one. Didn't do anything about it because I was married ( not happily but trying to work on it because of the kids) and she had a boyfriend. We did become friends. Year and a half later we made the biggest mistake of our lives and slept together. At that time I was still with my ex wife but had no hope for our marriage. I ended up leaving her and moved in with my new love who finally broke up with her loser boyfriend. Lot of struggles for couple years (my ex, kids, money) but I thought we made it work and it made us stronger.
Life went on, not perfect but nothing is, but never crossed my mind we would end up here. We were the example of happy couple to all of our friends. However, this May I discovered her affair with her boss ( started as EP in may it became PA but no intercourse) My world came crashing down when she said she was in love with someone else. She is my soulmate. I guess it's karma that wants to get back at me for what I did to my ex wife . Even though my ex wasn't a good person I was wrong for doing what I did. It took me 7 years and my current wife to cheat on me to make me realize that one could never find true happiness on someone else's misery. 

My wife didnt want to let him go so I made her quit the job 3 months ago ( I have lot of evidence), her affair ended and I want to make it work. I don't really know how to go about it . I am no angel I did have one EA during our marriage but I let it go because I love my wife. I also had PA ( no intercourse) due to lack of intimacy and I do regret it. I had an RA after I discovered what my wife was doing. I told her all about it since I don't want anymore lies or secrets in our marriage. But all these years I was a nice guy I treat her good I care about her very much. I am very romantic and affectionate but she has not shown me the same in a long time especially after her 2nd abortion. I never let her feel unwanted or not desirable and I was willing to give up passion and excitement to be with her for the rest of my life because i think we are meant for each other. We never really fought in our marriage which might have been wrong because clearly we never communicated about the issues we had. But we have always been best friends to each other
I guess what I want to know what are the chances of working this out and what can I do about it. I know I can forgive her but I still have hard time trusting her and not sure how much is she willing to work on this. She doesn't want to be intimate with me but doesn't refuse anymore. I just take what I want I'm not willing to wait months for her to come to me anymore. It's not the way I want it but I don't want to look elsewhere anymore. I just wish she would be passionate with me. It's like a new side of her that I never knew came out of her when she was with Him. I just wish she had that kind of passion for me. I was ok with it when I thought she didn't have it in her but now that I know she could, it bothers me. We did go to counseling but ran out of money and can't afford it right now. Not sure it was helping anyway counselor was more focused on my anger than her affair. So we just live together day to day always together being good friends and mostly civil but issues not resolved 
I expect some angry comments towards me and my wife which I understand but I would really like some honest opinions or advice pls ask any Question that would help you understand our situation.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Given all the issues you two have and the fact that you're not getting outside help, I'd say your odds of righting this ship are very very low. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You made a mistake in cheating with her and then in marrying her.


Your best bet is to leave her and not be involved in cheating.


You cannot unring a bell, but you sure can remove your head from the bell so your ears don't hurt anymore.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

PBear said:


> Given all the issues you two have and the fact that you're not getting outside help, I'd say your odds of righting this ship are very very low.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



We are down to one income and I am in a struggling business. Thing are starting to look batter so as soon as we are stable we are planning on getting individual and marriage concealing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

You obviously have never studied the golden rule:
If they will cheat WITH you, they will cheat ON you. 
In this case it is true for both of you.

Honestly, maybe neither of you is ready for marriage. You both cheated on your past relationships to be in this one, and you've both cheated while in this one. Obviously monogamy is not a high priority for either of you. Either have an open marriage or get divorced. There's not alot more to say, really.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Good grief! Multiple affairs, abortions, EA's, PA's, continued adultery on both sides. This would make a great plot line on "As the World Turns." Why on earth are you two still together?!


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

michzz said:


> You made a mistake in cheating with her and then in marrying her.
> 
> 
> Your best bet is to leave her and not be involved in cheating.
> ...


She did cheat on her first boy friend in this country with the 2nd and then on the 2nd boy friend with me and then on me with the 4th( her boss) she kissed him first time few days before she got her green card and then few days after and that's d day for me. I should have done some thing that day and get her to quit her job but she pleaded with me and said she will never do it again and that she loves that job. It was all a lie infect it became a full blown affair. She mad me look like a fool for trusting her. I felt like less off a man not become she cheated but because I let her take advantage of my trust the 2nd ( there was a 3rd and 4th time to ) time by allowing her to keep her job. I feel that I let my self down for not standing up at that first moment that I found out. I would like to say that I consider my self a nice guy and this is what I have learned about life 

" it's not that nice guys Finnish last it's nice guys with no ball that Finnish last"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

serial cheater marries a serial cheater and cheating from both ends is the result

nothing shocking here really, I just don't understand why you expect it be any different


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

stunned said:


> You obviously have never studied the golden rule:
> If they will cheat WITH you, they will cheat ON you.
> In this case it is true for both of you.
> 
> Honestly, maybe neither of you is ready for marriage. You both cheated on your past relationships to be in this one, and you've both cheated while in this one. Obviously monogamy is not a high priority for either of you. Either have an open marriage or get divorced. There's not alot more to say, really.


I cheated on my ex because she was a tyrant on speed. I was to week to leave her she would have made me commit suicide. My ex is a lawyer. And no she did not make it easy for me after she found out about my affair but at least I am still alive
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Counselling will be of benefit to the both of you. Couple's counselling and individual.

You never expected to be here, did you?

I have travelled a path similar to yours, so I certainly will not judge you.

That Karma bus has bloody big wheels though, doesn't it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dkphap13 said:


> I cheated on my ex because she was a tyrant on speed. I was to week to leave her she would have made me commit suicide. My ex is a lawyer. And no she did not make it easy for me after she found out about my affair but at least I am still alive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nah. You cheated on your wife because you were weak. 

Don't blame her, it doesn't look good.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> serial cheater marries a serial cheater and cheating from both ends is the result
> 
> nothing shocking here really, I just don't understand why you expect it be any different


" I love her " really want to change. And I mean truly want to change I just can't imagine my life with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you can't make her change, she has to want to do it

and so do you, what are doing to make changes in your core values? based on what you've said you still think there are valid reasons to cheat


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

dkphap13 said:


> I cheated on my ex because she was a tyrant on speed. I was to week to leave her she would have made me commit suicide. My ex is a lawyer. And no she did not make it easy for me after she found out about my affair but at least I am still alive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


...and yet you have had multiple affairs on your current wife also. Is she a tyrant as well? Look, there's nothing wrong with not being monogamous. Just don't expect monogamy in return. You are both serial cheaters. I'm assuming you're not teenagers, so I would think that this behavior is not going to change. Get divorced, and then bang anyone you want. You'll both be happier and will enjoy the freedom to do what (and who) you want. Plus you get the added bonus of not being called a cheater, liar, or any other derogatory name.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

dkphap13 said:


> ...Year and a half later we made the biggest mistake of our lives and slept together...My world came crashing down when she said she was in love with someone else. She is my soulmate. I guess it's karma that wants to get back at me for what I did to my ex wife


I have to comment on these sentiments. The biggest mistake of a life is, you get hopped up on meth, jump in a car and kill a family of four. I know it's unpopular, but being so attracted to another person and giving in - while married - IS a mistake, but you and about 50 million other people make it. It's not a death sentence.

Your second wife is your "soulmate"? Not your first? Are you sure she is, now that she's cheated on you? "Soulmate" is such a co-dependent term, IMO. You shouldn't have to oversell her meaning to you by using this description. We get it, you loved her, a lot, but I think it's safe to say that - if you believe in soulmates at all - it probably doesn't include that person cheating on you, so it may be time to abandon that ideal.

And speaking of ideals, I really can't empathize with people who default to "karma." Really? There's a universal power out there meant to punish you? To me, it's a red flag of non-accountability. Karma has nothing to do with it, karma didn't "plant" this woman in your life, entice you to marry her, so that years later she could cheat on you. It's called life, plain and simple, just see it that way, and skip the wonderment about the supernatural fatalistic plan you may be taking part in.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> That Karma bus has bloody big wheels though, doesn't it?


Yes it dose I have learned the hard way. Few weeks after the discovery of my wife affair I actually sat down my ex, my kids including my sister, and for the first time I acully gave them and open apology for what I put them all through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

stunned said:


> ...and yet you have had multiple affairs on your current wife also. Is she a tyrant as well? Look, there's nothing wrong with not being monogamous. Just don't expect monogamy in return. You are both serial cheaters. I'm assuming you're not teenagers, so I would think that this behavior is not going to change. Get divorced, and then bang anyone you want. You'll both be happier and will enjoy the freedom to do what (and who) you want. Plus you get the added bonus of not being called a cheater, liar, or any other derogatory name.


No she is not a tyrant hahah for form it. She is the sweetest women I have ever met. And no I am not a teenager just confused. I truly think it's all my fault for her affair. Instead of voicing out my concerns and asking for the things that I need out of our marriage. I chose to void the arguments and displeasing her, I chose to find thing that we were lacking some were els thus taking away my intention from her and giving it to someone else and creating a void in our relationship that push her to go find it somewhere else. I just hope it's not too late to change that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> you can't make her change, she has to want to do it
> 
> and so do you, what are doing to make changes in your core values? based on what you've said you still think there are valid reasons to cheat


I am not shore if she wants too but she is still here. My core values well I have a whole new respect for life, love, marriage and commitment. 

And no I have never had a valid reason to cheat on any of my wife's. Right thing should've been to stand up for myself and if I was not happy with my marriages I should've walked away and not look for some one else to fill up those voids. I know I did wrong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

You said you love her. But can you trust her? What has she done in meanwhile to help you trust her? What have you done to keep yourself to your marriage and not fish outside? 

Without outside help, this marriage will end, hopefully sooner than later.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Rohitvikash said:


> You said you love her. But can you trust her? What has she done in meanwhile to help you trust her? What have you done to keep yourself to your marriage and not fish outside?
> 
> 
> 
> Without outside help, this marriage will end, hopefully sooner than later.


I will trust her one day but not right now. She has not done much to show me to were I can trust her. From my part to her I have started with complete and utter honesty. I don't hold any thing back or hide any thing any more 
We are getting some help soon but I was hopping I can get some advices from you all for now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Abortions are very bad for relationships. Pregnant women want to hear the guy say we will love this baby and make it work.

Second abortion, both with you?

The selfish gene is asking to be born. Tell her you want to have a baby with her.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

dkphap13 said:


> I cheated on my ex because she was a tyrant on speed. I was to week to leave her she would have made me commit suicide. My ex is a lawyer. And no she did not make it easy for me after she found out about my affair but at least I am still alive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I like the part about how you committing suicide would have been her fault. Do you take any responsibility for your own action? Ever?


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

dkphap13 said:


> Yes it dose I have learned the hard way. Few weeks after the discovery of my wife affair I actually sat down my ex, my kids including my sister, and for the first time I acully gave them and open apology for what I put them all through.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Acoa said:


> I like the part about how you committing suicide would have been her fault. Do you take any responsibility for your own action? Ever?


Hahahah I knew this was comming. As I have already explained above yes i did take resposabilty for my actions. I was younger and stupid and I have paid for it dearly. On the other hand If you ask my wife wAy she cheated her answer is well " there was nothing roung with our relation ship I just found some one batter" 

May be I should have left my 2nd wife for the EA.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

dkphap13 said:


> Hahahah I knew this was comming. As I have already explained above yes i did take resposabilty for my actions. I was younger and stupid and I have paid for it dearly. On the other hand If you ask my wife wAy she cheated her answer is well " there was nothing roung with our relation ship I just found some one batter"
> 
> May be I should have left my 2nd wife for the EA.


She found someones batter alright HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......

Anyway, dude, either this is a bogus thread or your just real effed up.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

IIJokerII said:


> She found someones batter alright HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......
> 
> Anyway, dude, either this is a bogus thread or your just real effed up.


Bogus? Oh, if only!

Part of it sounds like my story, sad to say.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Bogus? Oh, if only!
> 
> Part of it sounds like my story, sad to say.


You guys or gals are better people than me. I cannot fathom anyone else with a woman I am bonded with that way nor would I want a continual relationship with a woman outside of the relationship due to the eventual fair is fair approach of letting her have her fun with another man. 

Again, Fun Fact; Most men do not think another mans wad in his wife a55 is a turn on.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> You guys or gals are better people than me. I cannot fathom anyone else with a woman I am bonded with that way nor would I want a continual relationship with a woman outside of the relationship due to the eventual fair is fair approach of letting her have her fun with another man.
> 
> Again, Fun Fact; Most men do not think another mans wad in his wife a55 is a turn on.


I am guessing you are married or in a relationship. Was your other half a vergin when you got with her or did she have other mans wad in her a55 before you did too ???


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think this is starting to get a little bit nasty.

Lest anyone risk getting banned, let's keep it cooler, OK?


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I think this is starting to get a little bit nasty.
> 
> Lest anyone risk getting banned, let's keep it cooler, OK?


True, for the better I believe.....................Shaka, when the walls fell.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I think this is starting to get a little bit nasty.
> 
> Lest anyone risk getting banned, let's keep it cooler, OK?


:iagree:
Sorry MATMAT I really don't want to get banned I am just here get some help and make sence of things.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

dkphap13 said:


> :iagree:
> Sorry MATMAT I really don't want to get banned I am just here get some help and make sence of things.


Me neither, I am just dumbfounded at your dilemma, not necessarily critical.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dkphap13 said:


> :iagree:
> Sorry MATMAT I really don't want to get banned I am just here get some help and make sence of things.


You are OK, DK. Stick around here, there is lots of wisdom to gain and other people's experiences to profit from.:smthumbup:


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## Wolf9 (Apr 27, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Abortions are very bad for relationships. Pregnant women want to hear the guy say we will love this baby and make it work.
> 
> Second abortion, both with you?
> 
> The selfish gene is asking to be born. Tell her you want to have a baby with her.


I think that's the main reason for her planning exit after second abortion. I don't know whether she wants children or not but subconsciously she was reacting to situation where OP already had two children with ex wife while they'd two abortions for financial reasons. It's not fair to expect romantic love will trump her biological urge to have children one day.


OP need to discuss this with his WW, if they are going to try R without resolving this, her resentment towards him only going to increase & cheating will continue. If OP decides to have kid with her despite financial burden only to save this marriage, he needs to to undrestand that it won't fix everything. There's chance that both of them will cheat again given their history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

There is a site/forum that I particulary dont like because they advice BS to nice the WS out of the affair wih "plan A" and imo its just continuing the humiliation that the BS is already dealing with...

But they also have some good things there to read and they have also a name for your kind of marriage and its called *Affairage* and I think it describes your 2nd marriage really good...Here is what it says:




> "My experience, and the experience of other professionals is that about 95% of all affairs either end by one person deciding to end it, or that it dies a natural death. Of the five percent that end in marriage, about 70% of those end in divorce. There are a host of reasons that romantic relationships that start with an affair are so fragile, but the main reason is that they are based on deceit, thoughtlessness, and dishonesty. Those characteristics eventually find themselves permeating the affair itself. They eventually find themselves being deceitful, thoughtless, and dishonest toward each other."


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Wolf9 said:


> I think that's the main reason for her planning exit after second abortion. I don't know whether she wants children or not but subconsciously she was reacting to situation where OP already had two children with ex wife while they'd two abortions for financial reasons. It's not fair to expect romantic love will trump her biological urge to have children one day.
> 
> 
> OP need to discuss this with his WW, if they are going to try R without resolving this, her resentment towards him only going to increase & cheating will continue. If OP decides to have kid with her despite financial burden only to save this marriage, he needs to to undrestand that it won't fix everything. There's chance that both of them will cheat again given their history.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she did not want kids. She was not good with my kids either, first time she held my daughter( she was two at the time) it was like watching a scene from the movie the lion King where Mufasa( king loin) was holding up his baby lion and presenting in to the rest of the jungle. But she has never had fate in her self. I truly belive she has the potentiol to be a realy good mother. After all these years she had finaly come around and was intrusted in haveing kids. By last June she lost 60 pounds and was feeling good about her self and about starting a Family. We got insurance for her to make sure we're prepared for everything. And that's where her AP came in the picture. He was her boss. She was always underappreciated at her job I think he saw that weakness in her. He immediately went after her as soon as he got transferred to that location. Started a praising her for her work ethic's telling her that she's worth more than a bartender which she is( I was her boss too hahaha) then offered her a supervisor position. And there gose our hopes for a Family. By the way latter I find out that was a part of his plan. He was trying to make sure that he can keep her away from having kids with me. He started giving her 70 hours a week at outrageous hourly wage an hour. for a entry-level hotels restaurants supervisor is bull ****. I have been it in the business for many years so I know.
This was all to get in her pants
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Bugz Bunny said:


> There is a site/forum that I particulary dont like because they advice BS to nice the WS out of the affair wih "plan A" and imo its just continuing the humiliation that the BS is already dealing with...
> 
> But they also have some good things there to read and they have also a name for your kind of marriage and its called *Affairage* and I think it describes your 2nd marriage really good...Here is what it says:


Ty I just read that I find it too bee soo true now. But I don't know if am ready to just give up on us. I would really like to be the 30% of the 5% that gets married


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Arw we realy Beyond help ???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dkphap13 said:


> Arw we realy Beyond help ???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, but the help needs to be professional, I think.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I found this thread after reading your other thread about forgiveness, and it seems both of you just have very, very loose boundaries. And you atleast, like having the freedom that goes with those loose boundaries so that either of you can go outside the marital bounds and then come back to within the marriage. Perhaps you both are not meant for monogamy, and perhaps instead of worrying about betraying each other you should talk about just having open relationship where neither of you makes vows of exclusivity?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

For the first time in my time on TAM, I only read the first two paragraphs and none of the additional posts - and/but all I have to "contribute" is this:

You cheated by sleeping with a cheater and now cannot deal with the cheater cheating on you? Laughable, but if you really step back and think about it, what ekse would you reasonably expect? There are only two people to blame here.

And the "soulmate" feeling/comment is a joke, a total joke sorry. One's "soulmate" doesn't do this to one's "soulmate", plain and simple.

Like someone said in your other thread that I won't comment on to avoid being banned, I just feel sorry for the kids. They're not being allowed to learn a decent way of being toward another, and it is sad.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

2xloser said:


> For the first time in my time on TAM, I only read the first two paragraphs and none of the additional posts - and/but all I have to "contribute" is this:
> 
> You cheated by sleeping with a cheater and now cannot deal with the cheater cheating on you? Laughable, but if you really step back and think about it, what ekse would you reasonably expect? There are only two people to blame here.
> 
> ...


The Tangled Web theory.


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## rustytheboyrobot (Nov 20, 2013)

Why is your spelling and grammar so terrible OP? Are you drinking?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dude what were you thinking??? you dumped your old lady to marry your b1otch and your b1otch is now your old lady and she is banging another dude and your shocked????

I mean how can I help when you pulled such a bone headed move?

Every one know you can't make your b1otch into your old lady...it just doesn't work that way.

Go back to your old lady and ask her to forgive your @ss.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

rustytheboyrobot said:


> Why is your spelling and grammar so terrible OP? Are you drinking?


I'd be drinking to if I bailed on my LW to be with my AP that just turned into my WW cuz I have SFB...

Sorry not helpful, but OP other thread threw me a curve ball


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Based on your other post: you cheated on your wife and married your mistress. Your present wife (former mistress) was an underling of yours in your workplace. Your present wife cheated with her present boss; why are you surprised? You have this history of cheating on both sides. You are not your average couple. You will not get sympathy from many people, TAM supporters or not.

Do you seek advice or do you seek validation? I recommend that you seek a Marriage and Therapy counselor with a Ph.D. for sure.


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## rustytheboyrobot (Nov 20, 2013)

Hopefully he can quit drinking. My posts used to be full of stupid errors because I was drunk basically all the time. Stopping drinking is like my biggest accomplishment of the last year. If you're drinking OP it's best if you stop. Go see a psychiatrist and get on medication to help you cope instead!


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

dkphap13 said:


> Reading these stories I can see lot of judgement coming my way but pls hear me out. My story might be long but you need to know the past to understand the present. Like many of you here I recently learned what it feels like to be betrayed. I have been with my wife for 7 years, married 4, no kids.
> 
> Looking back, when we first started together I thought our story was very romantic I was in a fog stat ( I am hopeless romantic) but it probably wasn't the best start to a successful relationship. We met at work and I was crazy about her since day one. Didn't do anything about it because I was married ( not happily but trying to work on it because of the kids) and she had a boyfriend. We did become friends. Year and a half later we made the biggest mistake of our lives and slept together. At that time I was still with my ex wife but had no hope for our marriage. I ended up leaving her and moved in with my new love who finally broke up with her loser boyfriend. Lot of struggles for couple years (my ex, kids, money) but I thought we made it work and it made us stronger.
> Life went on, not perfect but nothing is, but never crossed my mind we would end up here. We were the example of happy couple to all of our friends. However, this May I discovered her affair with her boss ( started as EP in may it became PA but no intercourse) My world came crashing down when she said she was in love with someone else. She is my soulmate. I guess it's karma that wants to get back at me for what I did to my ex wife . Even though my ex wasn't a good person I was wrong for doing what I did. It took me 7 years and my current wife to cheat on me to make me realize that one could never find true happiness on someone else's misery.
> ...


Umm pal, you're not a nice guy. I'm not talking about you cheating on your ex but you cheating on your current wife. Instead of working on your issues together you chose to cheat, twice.

I really don't see any love here, just co-dependence.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Dear dkphap13

You are getting an awful lot of hard words, an awful lot of anger directed at you. It is justified. 
If you read back your post, s l o w l y, and pretend, just for a moment, that you are a third person then you will see why.

I would not advise reconciliation. 

At seven years with no kids you can put it down to experience. You can start again when you are ready to; Which, like many of us here, may be a long time. 

I am sorry you are going through the pain of betrayal. 
You chose to write your story here knowing that TAM is a tough place and that says something about you. 

I am going to go out ( further) on a limb and say that the reason for this is that you know somewhere in your soul that you have breached every single one of _your core values_ and you have been doing that for a long time.

Your actions over the last years have been reprehensible. I am in no way condoning the behavior of your wife. What she did ,and is, doing is reprehensible too.

We all had to look pretty hard at ourselves when this hit. I wish you luck


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Dear dkfap13-

Yor story strucked a kord in me, because I lived a struckedly similar situation.

I, too, know the agony of being married to a tyrannical lawyer while managing a bar where my future affair partner worked as my employee until my mutual attraction for him overcomeded my fear of being stabbed to death by my murderous lawyer wife and hot monkey sex occurred.

I, too, know the joy of marrying my soulmate affair partner during one of those windows when same-sex marriage was legal, and the misery of finding out that he was triple-timing me behind my back, and the joy I had felt before that while I was seeing other people without him knowing it.

And also, the angst and concern when he had his abortion. Sorry, "our" abortion.

And I know the rage of finding out that the new female manager at the nightclub is ****blocking you by promoting your soulmate and telling him things like, "I think midgets who have one leg shorter than the other are SO SEXXAY!"

Through all this, I stayed true to myself and my code of honor- I never mixed EAs and PAs. If I had an emotional connection to someone, no matter how much I liked her, I never so much as kissed her. And if I was doing things that would make a porn star blush, I made sure that I didn't really care how the other guy felt.

So know that, even though it seems like all hope is lost, you've just got to channel Steve Perry (lead singer of Journey, and a really boring one at that) and Don't Stop....... Belieivin'

And just remember- no matter how screwed up things seem right now, you can always go and make them more screwed up-ed-er by rubbing genitals with someone else.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I think you two should stay together because you deserve each other.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Since the last time I posted in this thread I never came back even to take a glance. I was scared . I was not ready to deal with the harsh reality of my actions especially when they were being pointed out again and again. Instead me and my wife chose to read through the forums looking for answers. After a few pm's requesting update and me asking for help from few others I came back and read through all the posts. Even though I know I am ready for all the criticism from anyone this statement broke me down today and for the first time in my life I cried after reading something. That really did hit the spot. 



ing said:


> I am going to go out ( further) on a limb and say that the reason for this is that you know somewhere in your soul that you have breached every single one of _your core values_ and you have been doing that for a wile


After becoming devoted reader here at TAM and having a few sessions with a counselor I have learned a lot about myself. I have no self respect. I have lost myself many years ago. I lived 20 years of my life in fear of a narcissist mother only to find my way out with the help of my narcissist ex-wife. If it was not for her I would be living in my mothers basement alone. But I traded one evil for another. And this is where the problem starts. In a way how it was explained to me was I was too weak to walk away from my mother and I needed someone like my EX to help me. ( narcissist people are drown to weak individuals especially if they are in control of another narcissist, they want to have the same Control over that individual and why bother finding your own when you can steal someone else's idiot (me) ) and now I can remember looking back my ex-wife's attitude completely changed the day after she met my mother. And the next 7 years was hell. 

For example. 

I was not allowed to see my friends. In fact I lost all of them. I was told what to wear. Who I was allowed to talk to. Hell I was not even allowed to take care of myself even though she was not giving me any sex. She was extremely jealous. If she found out that I talk or even looked at another woman I would not hear the end of it for months ( I am no hot stuff ) for her to worry. I worked 12 to 16 hours a day only to come home and was told that it's my turn to take care of the kids even though I had to go to work 8 yours later. I had to do my own laundry. She hardly ever cooked for me which was fine since I was a restaurant manager and I ate at work. But when I got home she would tell me to cook for the kids and I made breakfast for them before I went to work. After my mother died we lived with my dad to help him with bills and stuff that's where she started getting up at noon and my dad took care of the kids in the morning and she worse. When she will wake up she would watch tv and tell the kids to get away from her and leave her alone I know this because my 5 year old would tell me when I got home from work. Why I could not just leave pls don't ask me that I don't know why. Maybe it was a little bit of the unknown of what she would do and SAY to me if I did. Verbal abuse was the worst. It was better to drive really fast and hit a tree then to hear what she would say if I left. 

I will be back latter to update my currant wife's and my situation. Pls hold off on the negativity pls let me explain every thing before you all start judging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Does your wife read & write here? That could be a good idea! 

I truly believe in people's capacity to learn & grow. At least you both understand the pain of betrayal & the PAIN of betraying! I think that both of you do stand a chance but you have soooo much work to do! 

From a woman's point of view.... It takes sooo long to recover from affairs. EAs are in their way just as brutal (if not MORE) than PAs. Abortion takes soooo long to recover from. No wonder your W is drawn to authority figures. I bet safety & security are more important to her than you realize. 

I hope that one of you posts her story. I bet she's got a lot to say?!?

If you can stop blaming eachother & using derogatory words in your minds & out of your mouths it will be a start...


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Zombie thread..


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## Survivorgirl (Nov 18, 2015)

Wow, it's astounding. I can't help myself. This OP is amazing! STILL blaming the ex-wife! Did the ex-wife make him cheat on the present wife? OMG! You got problems; seek professional help and please not from someone telling you it is your ex-wife's fault! She has nothing to do with your current situation. By the way, can we please get an update on ex-wife? Please tell me she is thriving, happy and has moved on!


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