# Husband thinks he works harder than he does



## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

I've been scouring the web trying to find a situation similar to mine, but so far have been unsuccessful.

Maybe some background is necessary. My Husband and I are almost 30, have been married for three years and living together for 5 years, and together in general for 9 years. We have a 6 month old son.

I work full time, outside of the house. I go to work at 5:30a and get home around 4p. My husband works from home and although he tells me that he's very busy with his job, I've had the opportunity to observe him many many times and he is not really so extremely busy.

Now, he has taken on most of the chores, as he's home all the time. He wakes up whenever the baby wakes (usually around 7:30-8a) and gets him dressed, fed, and off to daycare. Unfortunately, my husband only does a few chores and they are intermittent and half-hearted attempts. So, we usually have about 8-10 loads of laundry hanging around, the bed sheets never get changed, my son's laundry is done about once monthly, the dishes are never washed, and other habits that are dirty. Also, he is quite messy. He leaves piles of things all over the place...literally. Shoes in the middle of the floor, clean clothes (that I eventually wash) piled up around, dirty glasses, and his "chew" receptacles. I tried to talk to him about doing the chores, but he just complains incessantly, that he works so hard and doesn't have time and that he does everything and that I do nothing. He doesn't even wash the baby bottles anymore, they just sit, soaking in cold dirty dishwater for days.

Please help me. I can't work full time, care for our son, and run a household for three people. And here's the kicker, he can't understand why I'm too tired and stressed to have relations with him. ADVICE PLEASE !! ! Also, I feel like a nag and I really really hate that.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Your husband is handling child care. Your husband is waking up with the baby. You say he takes on most of the chores. He does all this despite the fact you are, from his perspective, withholding sex from him.

You seem very critical of his efforts, very critical of his results, very critical of his work habits, and very critical of his living habits.

The only thing you really mentioned that you do is work full time - which he is doing too. You say you run the household, but you admit he takes on most of the chores. ???

All I have to go on is what you wrote, but don't you think you are being a little hard on the guy? 

So, you both think you are doing more than you really are. Can't you work out a compromise here? And I'd really re-think the sex thing, because if you want more out of him and he is receiving less from you, that is a recipe for resentment and disaster.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sounds exactly like how my marriage was, I worked from home, my w wa sahm, yet I did majority of chores and most of the getting up at night for the baby (even though she thought I sucked at all of that) just continued to berate me even though I was burning out trying to do my best and inevitably failing. So she decided to take up hiphop dance, make young single friends and start sleeping around, while I continued to flail at home by myself while supporting her. Maybe that is the solution, cheat?


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

I can feel like my house is a tip & my H thinks it looks fine. It is possible your H is not putting the same priority on chores as you are.

You could try sitting down with him, paper & pens & making a list of what needs doing when, how long it should take & do a schedule for him.

I work as a cleaning supervisior & I do times that jobs should take them when we go to a site & what to do first. It also works for my children, especially the youngest, who views mess differently to me.

The harder option is to turn a blind eye to the mess if it is not your responsibility.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok, I will try to make it more clear. I didn't want to get into all the nitty gritty. Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded. It's more that when I get home from work, I take care of our child until he goes to bed, and I put him to bed, every night. I also will cook dinner and try to pick up the house while the baby naps. By the time the baby goes to sleep, I still have to shower, clean up dishes, get my stuff ready for work, and then sleep (it's after 10p usually). I haven't figured out how to fit that part of our marriage into the equation. Also, my husband is usually already in bed by this time and generally on his way to dreamland.
Now, when I say he gets up with the baby, that's two and half hours after I've already gotten up and out of the house. I take care of the bills, groceries, baby supplies, cleaning supplies, doctors appts, and all that type of stuff. This doesn't sound important, but when you need to give your baby formula, but oops you don't have any, it becomes quite important, indeed.
I guess I feel like, if you're going to wash the dishes, make sure they are clean as putting away dishes with old food on them will attract all sorts of varmints. Also, our baby bottles are growing some kind of crud on them. 
One more thing, if our son wakes up in the middle of the night, I take care of him.
Am I still crazy?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Some people aren't good at time management, because they never learned. What kind of job did he have before staying home? Anything with "applicable" experience?

It might seem overwhelming to him, simple to you. Because he doesn't naturally have that ability. 

And then there is the priority aspect. What he considers important, compared to what you do.

Is he open enough to sitting down and having a conversation on what is expected, what you would like to have done, and can you help him with how to schedule that?

And after all that is done..... a baby means the whole schedule might go out the window.

So other than that, my little piece of advice is that you are lucky that one of you can stay home. And if he is spending quality time with your son, and you can afford it, enlist some housekeeping help, or send the laundry out to a service. A baby grows up so fast. 
Spending all your day cleaning instead of playing with a youngster is a personal choice, if it's that important to you.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

aurentium said:


> Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded.


Well, is it fair to say he hasn't been getting "rewarded" lately? Due to his not doing enough of the chores and whatnot? Treating sex as a reward is a terrible idea IMO.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Deejov has some good advice. One thing about his work, is that maybe he doesn't want to view it as "being able to stay home" more like he is being unfairly torn in two directions... In my case I made it perfectly clear that when I'm on the clock and working it was to be as if I was away at the office, but frequently she still let the kids (she also ran a home daycare business and took in a couple other kids) into my office to play, would often times go out for a break and expect me to stop working and take care of her daycare kids. It made for a lot of resentment, even though I could have done a better job of managing I felt completely unappreciated, like because I was working in the home my career was on hiatus, she didn't seem to mind the income though. She was also unable to see that when both of our work days were done, that it didn't make her entitled to a break any more than me.

If your H is slacking during the evenings when you both have to share the load that is a valid complaint though, just make sure you are not diminishing his contributions from his paid job, or think that because he is at home chores should be any easier.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

aurentium said:


> Ok, I will try to make it more clear. I didn't want to get into all the nitty gritty.


That does you no favors. if we don't know the facts, how can we help you.



> Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded. It's more that when I get home from work, I take care of our child until he goes to bed, and I put him to bed, every night. I also will cook dinner and try to pick up the house while the baby naps. By the time the baby goes to sleep, I still have to shower, clean up dishes, get my stuff ready for work, and then sleep (it's after 10p usually). I haven't figured out how to fit that part of our marriage into the equation. Also, my husband is usually already in bed by this time and generally on his way to dreamland.
> Now, when I say he gets up with the baby, that's two and half hours after I've already gotten up and out of the house. I take care of the bills, groceries, baby supplies, cleaning supplies, doctors appts, and all that type of stuff. This doesn't sound important, but when you need to give your baby formula, but oops you don't have any, it becomes quite important, indeed.
> I guess I feel like, if you're going to wash the dishes, make sure they are clean as putting away dishes with old food on them will attract all sorts of varmints. Also, our baby bottles are growing some kind of crud on them.
> One more thing, if our son wakes up in the middle of the night, I take care of him.
> Am I still crazy?


Curious about a couple of things:

1. How do you know he is not working hard during the day? It sounds like he works from home. If that is accurate, do you expect him to do all these chores and still do his actual day job? If not, what amount of them do you expect to get done? Also, what do you mean by him not being exceptionally busy? Is his business less than you have at your job outside the home?

2. How long is daycare? Does he care for your child for any amount of time before you get home? What is he doing then?

I think part of what comes across in your posts is the feeling that his at home job is not important, so he should be doing all the chores as well. Consider that he is reacting poorly to this (to be clear, I am not justifying it, only noting the occurance). I know that if I worked from home and my wife came home upset because I did not have all the chores done, I would likely not react well either. Is this a possible dynamic?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

It also sounds like the two of you have different ideas of how clean a home needs to be to be livable. No one is going to do more chores than they think are necessary. 

Untidiness doesn't bother me, especially after raising two children. Fortunately, it doesn't bother my wife either so we have a functionally clean but often unkempt home. A fan of **** and span would probably be appalled.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

deejov said:


> Some people aren't good at time management, because they never learned. What kind of job did he have before staying home? Anything with "applicable" experience?
> 
> It might seem overwhelming to him, simple to you. Because he doesn't naturally have that ability.
> 
> ...


The baby goes to day care.

Your husband is being unreasonable. Very.

As your day is longer you should not be doing more then your husband. He needs a huge wake up call.

I suggest in the budget try and find someone to clean the house once a week. Then divide the rest of the chores up, with you both caring for the baby and getting a little down time when you get home.

What your husband is doing will cause a lot of resentment. I can understand why you would be too tired for sex, tell him it's not about punishment or reward that you are exhausted and he needs to step up and help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You husband takes your son to daycare in the morning.

Who picks you son up from daycare?

About what time is your son picked up from daycare?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

aurentium said:


> Ok, I will try to make it more clear. I didn't want to get into all the nitty gritty. Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded.


Kind of like the dog. If he rolls over, he gets a treat. 

Regardless of how hard you 'believe' your husband is working, is he working 'full time' as in approx. 7-8 hours per day? Does he earn as much income or more than you?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

There are two things here I'll comment on. One is something called "Fundamental Attribution Error" that is at the heart of a problem like you describe. The other has to do with time management. Since time management's the easier one to address, I'll start with it.

You two seem to have too much on your plate. Let's face, it, we all have a limited number of hours in a week, and we can only do so much with that time. Some people are more skilled at managing their time than others, but you didn't marry your husband for his time management skills. Would it be possible to hire someone to come in once every week or two to help with the housework for a couple hours? Could you ask your husband to take the reins after 8:00? 

Fundamental attribution error is a topic that I studied when I was working on my master's degree in communications. If you click on that link, it gives a pretty decent explanation of the concept. The gist of it is that we all believe we contribute more than we do (both in quantity and quality), and we don't give others credit for as much as they actually do. I see this principle oozing throughout your post, Aurentium. This means if you asked him, he'd explain he does quite a bit that you don't acknowledge, and that YOU aren't working so very hard as you think, either. 

It's not that either of you is right or wrong. It's just human nature to perceive things in the ways that are most beneficial to ourselves. 

To break out of that, you'll have to find a way to give him credit for all that he does, and to acknowledge your own shortcomings while you seek a fair solution that you can both feel good about.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Kathy, well said - I was even thinking to myself "I wonder what the OP's H's side of the story would be?"

One thing I have to say about Fundamental Attribution Error, is what about those of us who have already studied the concept and are already aware of it in our relationship but have discovered that our partner isn't able to acknowledge that - in essence, it's still a two way street so if one partner understands that his criticism may be due to his own biased perceptions, how easy is it to control that attributed perception of our spouses contributions if we've adjusted our own attitude but have only ended up taking on more of the workload, in actuality?

To me that is a lot of what I felt in my marriage, and it quickly resulted in resentment and then inaction on my part, I;d start the chores but never finish a chore, unload the dishwasher but then leave it open with the dirty dishes on the counter, then go sort laundry but not put it in the machine, then sift through paperwork but leave it in piles that all topple over and need to be re-sifted etc. We tend to sabotage the other partner when we feel an injustice, and being aware of the fundamental attribution error concept can actually make it worse (it did for me).


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## heaodfrant (Dec 19, 2012)

very critical of his work habits, and very critical of his living habits.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If I was you I would take a more active role when it comes to household chores or at least let your husband know what you expect. When I first took over my business I ended up having to clean up the whole damn restaurant all by myself from the filters to the benches to the grills to the chairs to the dishes to the floors to the toilets... etc etc

I actually became quite systematic and efficient. I learnt how to prevent double jobs, so with my employees I train them with my system - but still open for them doing it their own way if it's easier and faster - I'm just happy if the job gets done and gets done ON TIME. Now when it comes to household chores, I trained my wife the same way, and it only takes like 2 hours max a day to get everything done (it's the double jobs that makes it take SO MUCH longer). After a while it just becomes routine. You have to play manager with your SO sometimes.

I have been slack since seperation however, but nevermind that


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Lon said:


> We tend to sabotage the other partner when we feel an injustice, and being aware of the fundamental attribution error concept can actually make it worse (it did for me).


For me, it made me more sensitive to my partner's perceptions, something I should've done years earlier!


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> That does you no favors. if we don't know the facts, how can we help you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Many days, my husband doesn't have much actual work to do. When this happens, he naps on our couch and plays video games throughout the day. I'm not sure about anyone else's job, but I do know that my job doesn't allow me time for napping and playing during the day. I do understand that a job is a job and that he does work. But is it unfair to say that between calls he can't throw clothes in the washer or dryer and stick dishes in the dishwasher? I can unload and fold when I get home, so that half the work is done. 
Also, it's not that I expect him to do all the chores, but the ones that he's responsible for need to be done. 
I absolutely know that my reaction is bad, and that's one of the reason I'm here. I want to find a way to talk with him about it that doesn't come across accusing or angry or derogatory. I'm ok about doing chores, but I've tried to talk with him about a plan to get things done and he doesn't seem receptive. Even when there was a loose plan in place, he didn't stick to it. We still have week old dishes in the sink, dirty baby bottles, and no clean eating utensils.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

Lon said:


> Deejov has some good advice. One thing about his work, is that maybe he doesn't want to view it as "being able to stay home" more like he is being unfairly torn in two directions... In my case I made it perfectly clear that when I'm on the clock and working it was to be as if I was away at the office, but frequently she still let the kids (she also ran a home daycare business and took in a couple other kids) into my office to play, would often times go out for a break and expect me to stop working and take care of her daycare kids. It made for a lot of resentment, even though I could have done a better job of managing I felt completely unappreciated, like because I was working in the home my career was on hiatus, she didn't seem to mind the income though. She was also unable to see that when both of our work days were done, that it didn't make her entitled to a break any more than me.
> 
> If your H is slacking during the evenings when you both have to share the load that is a valid complaint though, just make sure you are not diminishing his contributions from his paid job, or think that because he is at home chores should be any easier.


You kind of got it right. Once I get home, I feel a bit like a single parent. He doesn't watch the baby at all in the evenings. We go together to get him from daycare and then it's just me. I just want to feel as though I can rely on him when things aren't always easy. 
I agree that his job is important, even if it is easier than mine, but I also have the added stress of a 2.5 hour round trip commute each day.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> It also sounds like the two of you have different ideas of how clean a home needs to be to be livable. No one is going to do more chores than they think are necessary.
> 
> Untidiness doesn't bother me, especially after raising two children. Fortunately, it doesn't bother my wife either so we have a functionally clean but often unkempt home. A fan of **** and span would probably be appalled.


Believe me, messiness is secondary. Right now I'm shooting for just not dirty. Old dishes laying around, dirty laundry everywhere, huge dust bunnies running across the floor, old milk crusted in our baby bottles....I think that dishes once a day, laundry once a week, and swiffering once a week are not too many chores for one person to handle throughout the day.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You husband takes your son to daycare in the morning.
> 
> Who picks you son up from daycare?
> 
> About what time is your son picked up from daycare?



We both pick him up, usually about 30 minutes after I get home from work. Around 4:30p or a little later.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> The baby goes to day care.
> 
> Your husband is being unreasonable. Very.
> 
> ...


I guess, what I want to do, is discuss it with him, and try to be fair. It's just gotten to a point that when I try to ask him if he's done a chore (b/c otherwise I will do it), he gets defensive and starts telling me that I don't do anything and it's all on him. I'm not sure how to get around that defensiveness just to talk.


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Kind of like the dog. If he rolls over, he gets a treat.
> 
> Regardless of how hard you 'believe' your husband is working, is he working 'full time' as in approx. 7-8 hours per day? Does he earn as much income or more than you?


I would say that on some days he works full time, kind of. He has a lot of down time between phone calls and typing up meeting minutes. He does not earn more money than me. I'm for sure, the breadwinner.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

aurentium said:


> I would say that on some days he works full time, kind of. He has a lot of down time between phone calls and typing up meeting minutes. He does not earn more money than me. I'm for sure, the breadwinner.


If you’re thinking a man can multitask in the same ways as a woman you’re mistaken. We can’t switch in and out of context like women can, we’re pretty focused and very task oriented.


For example you’re obviously imagining yourself being in your husband’s situation, putting yourself in his shoes. And when you’re there you’re thinking it’s nothing to switch out of work and into domestics.

“I just finished a report, I’ll load the washer and then I’ll arrange a meeting with Fred”. In fact as a woman you’d load the washer while on the phone to Fred arrange the meeting, while you’re preparing lunch and have your sister on the other line arranging a party for Christmas. 

Men’s minds can’t work that way. It’s either all work or all domestics.

You use sex as a reward? Yuk!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> If you’re thinking a man can multitask in the same ways as a woman you’re mistaken.


Well I don't know about that, I'm actually a good multi-tasker at work when it's quiet and I have few staff on. But maybe that's just the nature of my industry... 

Oh, and found this randomly browsing:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...itasking-women-Swedish-researchers-claim.html

:rofl:


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

AFEH said:


> If you’re thinking a man can multitask in the same ways as a woman you’re mistaken. We can’t switch in and out of context like women can, we’re pretty focused and very task oriented.
> 
> 
> For example you’re obviously imagining yourself being in your husband’s situation, putting yourself in his shoes. And when you’re there you’re thinking it’s nothing to switch out of work and into domestics.
> ...


I do appreciate that he doesn't think like I do. I do NOT use sex as a reward.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well I don't know about that, I'm actually a good multi-tasker at work when it's quiet and I have few staff on. But maybe that's just the nature of my industry...
> 
> Oh, and found this randomly browsing:
> Men ARE better at multitasking than women, Swedish researchers claim | Mail Online
> ...


Yes but. Work is work, we can all run a few tasks simultaneously as we work our way through the working day or night. The focus is on work.

But "working" and doing domestic chores at the same time is something totally different.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

aurentium said:


> Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded.





aurentium said:


> I do appreciate that he doesn't think like I do. I do NOT use sex as a reward.


:scratchhead:

I don't think you do appreciate he doesn't think like you do. If you did you wouldn't expect him to multitask between work and domestic chores. QED.


If you didn't expect him to "operate" in the same way as you do then you would look for alternative solutions to the problems you are facing instead of forcing your somewhat narrow minded solution on him.


Sometimes you have to be a leader in these things to lead your way out of the problems. I cannot see that you have any leadership qualities at all!


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## aurentium (Nov 8, 2012)

AFEH said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't think you do appreciate he doesn't think like you do. If you did you wouldn't expect him to multitask between work and domestic chores. QED.
> 
> ...


I think you're making a judgement based on a thread in a forum. Whether I have leadership skills or not is irrelevant, but insulting me is not really polite. As I've stated in my various posts, I'm trying to find a solution, not look for sympathy or someone to agree with me. And in reality, I run the house, even though I wish that this task was split. I am, by no means, an idiot. I want to help him be more efficient and to tell me when the workload is too much, not just shut down and leave things not done. I also want to find a way to talk with him about what needs to be completed, without being demeaning or undermining him. This is what I want from this forum, not insults to personality traits that you are intimating from the internet.


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## PartlyCloudy (Jun 6, 2011)

aurentium said:


> Let me say first though, that I do not withhold sex, as in, if he does good things, he gets rewarded.


I read this as her saying sex is not a reward-- more like she was just reiterating what she said in the first half of the sentence.

It seems obvious you both have different perceptions of this situation & each feel you're the one getting shafted, so maybe a different conversation approach might help. Instead of focusing on what's not working for you & how overwhelmed you're feeling, focus on what he needs. Let him know you realize the importance of his job & how busy he is. Let him know you don't want him feeling overwhelmed & overworked & want to come up with a system that works. Maybe then he'll be more receptive to discussing it. Be sure to really listen to what he says, too.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

aurentium said:


> I think you're making a judgement based on a thread in a forum. Whether I have leadership skills or not is irrelevant, but insulting me is not really polite. As I've stated in my various posts, I'm trying to find a solution, not look for sympathy or someone to agree with me. And in reality, I run the house, even though I wish that this task was split. I am, by no means, an idiot. I want to help him be more efficient and to tell me when the workload is too much, not just shut down and leave things not done. I also want to find a way to talk with him about what needs to be completed, without being demeaning or undermining him. This is what I want from this forum, not insults to personality traits that you are intimating from the internet.


It's very easy to see why your H just can't be bothered. You probably have him massively demotivated.


Plus he's obviously not a self starter. If you are the bread winner then he's obviously taking a free ride what with all the game playing and things left undone. Your fault for picking the guy and then trying to change him into the man you want him to be.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

PartlyCloudy said:


> I read this as her saying sex is not a reward-- more like she was just reiterating what she said in the first half of the sentence.
> 
> _It seems obvious you both have different perceptions of this situation & each feel you're the one getting shafted, so maybe a different conversation approach might help. Instead of focusing on what's not working for you & how overwhelmed you're feeling, focus on what he needs. Let him know you realize the importance of his job & how busy he is. Let him know you don't want him feeling overwhelmed & overworked & want to come up with a system that works. Maybe then he'll be more receptive to discussing it. Be sure to really listen to what he says, too._


What I meant by leadership. But OP thinks leadership irrelevant. She actually mocks it.

The opposite of leadership is "management and control". Kind of domineering and demanding. Exceptionally demotivating.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I do partially agree with AFEH, in that is was my experience too - when I sink my teeth into a task I can be incredibly focused and hard-working, but I too need some leadership in certain areas - and when it came to domestic chores that is really what would have made a difference into our home functioning efficiently - if my ex W had leadership qualities in that regard (instead of insisting I was responsible to determine what chores needed to be done, what order they needed to be done in, and planned to utilize me) I would gladly have done almost all the work - instead she grew resentful that I couldn't figure it out. On the same hand though, I knew that she wasn't a good leader in that way either, so it was unfair of me to expect her to be able to do what I couldn't do - it just made all our expectations so screwed up.

From what I hear your H sounds like me in certain ways, (though not sure how well he works when he sinks his teeth into something) but you are clearly delegating responsibility onto him that he is not good at managing but still expecting him to. If you know your H to have a good work ethic, then take the lead in planning the chores by giving him specific tasks to do, one at at time (if you think you could do a better job than he does) so he doesn't get overwhelmed and give him praise... for me, praise would have been motivation enough, except I was overwhelmed and like AFEH says, I couldn't flip the switch as to when I was supposed to give my effort to work vs home (was 3x harder when working from home) and so instead of being able to do one thing right all I could do was everything poorly - and it was a complete demotivator, extremely depressing and affected all areas of my life.

I guess all I'm saying is that if you think you have the ability to lead the domestic responsibilities (not at all the same as doing all the work) then do it and put your H to task, I don't think sex should be used as a reward, nor food, nor quality time as a couple or family, but I suspect that if you can find something in the home that is effective and he can do well, those things may all start improving. And if neither of you are very good leaders in that way then get professional help (in the way of cleaners, personal cooks, nannies etc) and find a way to do what each of you are good at instead of keeping dwelling on the failure.

Good luck!


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

I work from home, wife works and we have a 3 year old. so I have some perspective.

I will say, that the motivation thing is a big part. people don't like to be told what to do. I
My wife rarely tells me things to do around the house, except maybe mail a letter or a quick honeydo thingy..

from a work standpoint.....when we are going through a rough patch or my wife is a pain I find it VERY, VERY demotiovating......which leads to making less money due to less focus and no motivation. (who wants to hit a $$ goal like paying off a house when you're wondering if things will work out...and know the wife will get it if things don't lol)

Hell I do most of the dishes, all the bills/finances, cook...etc, etc.. I find a quick chore a break from work.

heck I just did all the tile & grout. like 1 room a day when taking a break. :smthumbup:

I have like 8 full hours though. If he is doing baby drop off and you're off @ 4 pm. that only leaves him like 6 hours.

I would think if your off @ 4 you COULD get a lot more done than you are doing if you wanted too.

so I would step up your game 1st....and do all these cleaning things you are talking about...get the house clean. be the 1st to step up. and see if he keeps up. if not, then try option 2 and step back and let the place go to hell and see if he responds. but telling him what to do won't solve it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFEH said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't think you do appreciate he doesn't think like you do. If you did you wouldn't expect him to multitask between work and domestic chores. QED.
> 
> ...


From what she said he has no trouble multi tasking when the task is a nap or playing video games. Apperently her husband has fairly long blocks of time open during the day when he could actually concentrait on something like the dishes or throwing laudry in the washer.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Ultimately, you want change in the relationship. The change you are asking for seems completely reasonable, but to him it represents a lot of effort. Even in your posts, the tone is for him to work harder, more chores, more cleanliness, more effort, etc.

I'm guessing he also wants change in the relationship. The topic of sex was brought up, so I'll go with that - imagine how unreasonable it would sound to you if all you heard all day was that you had to drop 20 pounds, wear skimpier clothing and learn to pole dance at home. 

Of course this is laughable, but I think it probably shows just how far the divide is for you guys. You think it's perfectly reasonable to claim stress and fatigue as a reason to not have sex, and he thinks it's perfectly reasonable to withhold effort on chores because he's feeling neglected too.

The point is, the situation is not that you are unhappy and your husband is happy as a clam - chances are he is also very unhappy and is losing himself in the video games or whatever as a way to avoid confronting things head on.

I think one of you is going to have to bridge this divide. "Honey, I want us to find a plan where we can have the clean house AND the sex life that we both want."

I have a feeling based on what you've told us, that person is going to have to be you, unfortunately.

I also think that you may be able to help your efforts by re-focusing on any positives you can think of. "Boy, I'm really lucky I can count on you to take the little one to day care every morning so I can work." "Thank you so much for doing that laundry, I really needed my blue shirt and I was so happy you did it for me." Etc. Find a way to reconnect sexually. Do this for a few weeks so he has time to notice this change. You may find that he responds to the carrot a lot better than the stick.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

aurentium said:


> *Many days, my husband doesn't have much actual work to do.* When this happens, he naps on our couch and plays video games throughout the day. I'm not sure about anyone else's job, *but I do know that my job doesn't allow me time for napping and playing during the day*. I do understand that a job is a job and that he does work. *But is it unfair to say that between calls he can't throw clothes in the washer or dryer and stick dishes in the dishwasher? * I can unload and fold when I get home, so that half the work is done.
> Also, it's not that I expect him to do all the chores, *but the ones that he's responsible for need to be done. *I absolutely know that my reaction is bad, and that's one of the reason I'm here. I want to find a way to talk with him about it that doesn't come across accusing or angry or derogatory. I'm ok about doing chores, but I've tried to talk with him about a plan to get things done and he doesn't seem receptive. Even when there was a loose plan in place, he didn't stick to it. We still have week old dishes in the sink, dirty baby bottles, and no clean eating utensils.


Think for a moment about your job. Are you telling me that there is no down-time? Are you working for the full time you are there, with no idle moments? Odds are there are such times. In your case, you can relax a moment, while he is expected to continue working.

What is still coming across is that you don't respect his job or him. You think he has plenty of time and that his job is not important. I suspect that disrespect comes through clearly. So any talks that you try to have are unfortunately not going to be well recieved.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aurentium,

I get what you are saying. House chores are not him helping you. They are as much his responsibility as they are yours. You just want him to take responsibiliy of the chores he's agreed to do. You do not want to have to come up with schemes to 'lead' him to get chores done, or treat him like you are the mother trying to get him to do chores. That's really not much to ask.

He works at most 6 hours a day. He also has time to nap and play video games during his work hours. Then once you come home you are the one who does the things that get done. And while you are taking care of things in the evening, he's playing games, etc.

It's not right for him to put the major burden of all things on you.

When you come home in the evenings he should be doing as much as you do. 

I wonder if part of the problem is that you simply value a clean home more than he does. This is often the case.

One thing that can often help is to hire someone to come in once a week and do cleaning. Of if there is a neighbor teen who is looking for some pocket change, to have them come over daily for 1-2 hours to do dishes, fold laundry. I've done both.

When I first married my son's father he refused to clean bathroom. They are yuki and beneath him. So what? I wanted to stick me with something that he thought is beneath him? Ya right. So I told him that I don't do toilets either. Then I hired a lady to come clean the house once a week. It worked out great and we can more time for each other.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> From what she said he has not trouble multi tasking when the task is a nap or playing video games. Apperently her husband has fairly long blocks of time open during the day when he could actually concentrait on something like the dishes or throwing laudry in the washer.


Your examples are not of multitasking.

They are of doing one thing after the other.

A serial sequence of events.

Again it is not multitasking.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Aurentium, I am trying to see your viewpoint better since it sounds like you feel you're not being understood, and I'm coming up with a few questions as you've provided more info: 

How long has this been going on?
You said he works full time, I believe, but it's unclear "how" that happens. When are the meetings he arranges and such? Is he working from home? 

How much does he actually sleep and nap each day? Have his sleep patterns changed at all? Appetite? Does he have any hobbies or interests? 

You've said you want to find a way to approach the situation constructively instead of continuing to argue about it. It might be easier to give you good feedback if you can provide this kind of information that will help hone in on whether he's depressed, has passive-aggressive tendencies, an attention deficit, etc.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Your examples are not of multitasking.
> 
> They are of doing one thing after the other.
> 
> ...


That's the point. If he has time to nap and play video games during his work hours then all this talk about multi-tasking is irrelevant. She is not asking him to multi-task.

For example:

NOW: After he finishes a call and writes up the notes. He plays a video came until the next call.

Proposed: After he finishes a call and writes up notes, he goes the dishes. Once the dishes are done he can go play video games until the next call.

This is why I think the OP believes he can get more done during the day. She’s not asking him to multi-task. She’s asking him to use time more wisely. This way she does not have to do all the child care (except mornings before childcare), all the house chores, grocery shopping, handles all family finances, and so forth. 

I work at from home 2-3 days a week now. I do not try to multi-task. I do the sequence of events thing. When I take my lunch break clean the kitchen and make lunch. I throw clothes in the washer/dryer between teleconferences and blocks of work.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

aurentium said:


> I guess, what I want to do, is discuss it with him, and try to be fair. It's just gotten to a point that when I try to ask him if he's done a chore (b/c otherwise I will do it), he gets defensive and starts telling me that I don't do anything and it's all on him. I'm not sure how to get around that defensiveness just to talk.


What' I've discovered, after one failed and one successful marriage, is 90% of the problems with a couple isn't what is said, it's how it's said.

HOW do you ask him and talk to him? Human nature is to put blame on the other person, instead of what is effective is pointing the issues on ourselves. Don't say things like "you this and you that", say things like "I feel this and I'd love that". For instance, let's capsulate your entire issue. Most people will say. "You don't do anything during the day, You sit down and take a nap between calls. You can't even put a load of laundry in." You get the idea. What we DON'T say is "I understand you're working during the day, just like me. I'd GREATLY appreciate it, though, if you could squeeze a load or 2 of laundry in during your down times. It would mean the world to me if you did. I'm not asking you to fold or anything, I'll handle that, just pop it in the washer and dryer so I can jump into it later at night."

Then APPRECIATE GREATLY what he does do. I'm not saying this to make it sound like treat other people like kids, but just think of how we talk to little kids. We applaud their successes instead of complaining about their failures. In turn kids feel like they can accomplish anything.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

just divorce already

it seems like you can do no wrong and he is the problem and cause of all wrong doing. 

he must be evil huh?

if only he could be MORE LIKE YOU!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> just divorce already
> 
> it seems like you can do no wrong and he is the problem and cause of all wrong doing.
> 
> ...


Do you think that a man has no responsibilities around the house? Or that it's ok if he just choses to not take care of his 50% of the responsibilities?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> That's the point. If he has time to nap and play video games during his work hours then all this talk about multi-tasking is irrelevant. She is not asking him to multi-task.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


This is exactly how I am reading her as well. I would be plenty ticked off if we were paying for childcare while he is at home doing things half-assed. Napping and playing video games? Really? What if she were at home in this situation, how would this sit with him? Probably not very well. Everyone here seems to be coming down on her because of the role reversal here. If she were the work from home mom, then everyone would be expecting her to step up during her down time, I'm sure. 

He sounds like a very uninvolved dad as well, I think I have more issue with that after reading the posts. He doesnt sound like he has anything to do with the baby except the initial morning routine.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

One other thing about this post that is flying under the radar (at least to me) is this: OP could recover 50 hours a month just by moving closer to work.

Whether OP chose to use that time to relax, reconnect with hubby, or what not, I can't help but think that it would be a huge quality of life improvement for all involved, considering at how stressed OP sounds.


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## PartlyCloudy (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You do not want to have to come up with schemes to 'lead' him to get chores done, or treat him like you are the mother trying to get him to do chores.


I hope she wouldn't try to scheme him to get things done, & I don't think anybody would advise her to. I think what's important is communicating effectively. Nobody likes to be talked at or told what to do. 

I could tell from the first post that this girl was feeling overwhelmed & frustrated. I could also tell from the first response by acorn how differently men & women might perceive the situation.

Aurentium, is it too much to ask that he helps out w/o you having to tell him? Of course not, but it's not happening, so you have to find a different way to go about it...for both of you to be happy & feel appreciated.

Bear in mind, too, that you do have a young baby. That's a huge change in your lives & takes time to adjust & find your groove.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PartlyCloudy said:


> I hope she wouldn't try to scheme him to get things done, & I don't think anybody would advise her to. I think what's important is communicating effectively. Nobody likes to be talked at or told what to do.
> 
> I could tell from the first post that this girl was feeling overwhelmed & frustrated. I could also tell from the first response by acorn how differently men & women might perceive the situation.
> 
> ...


The underlined is what I meant when I said "scheme".

I think that one of the things aggravating Aurentium is that he does not just do what he should be doing. It’s very aggravating, as the spouse, to be put in the position of having to figure out how to motive the other person to do what they should just do because it’s their responsibility.

Some here are saying that her tell him that she expects him to do things is demoralizing him. She should never have to ask, beg, plead and so forth to get him to do 50% of the child care and house chores. What he is doing is demoralizing her.


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## Jeanie (Nov 14, 2011)

I think your husband and my husband are almost identical. My husband also works from home, and does absolutely nothing to help with our kids or the housework. I'm not going to threadjack, but I just wanted to let you know that you have a totally sympathetic ear in me, and I absolutely feel your pain. 

The only thing that has ever worked for me is to specifically ask him to do things around the house while I'm gone. If I don't say "please unload the dishwasher", it will stay as it is, with dirty dishes piling up all around (for days possibly) if I don't unload it myself. And this is just one teenee tiny example. And just to clarify, I have an 1 1/2 hour commute to work daily, we have two children that I am solely responsible for dropping off and picking up from daycare, I am the only one who ever feeds them, does their laundry, helps them with their homework and puts them to bed. 

So, while I can understand that men's brains work differently, and it's not fair to expect them to behave exactly in the way we think they should, there are some men who are just selfish and lazy. The question is, how long are you willing to put up with it?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Yes, partly cloudy got it... it's not about "scheming" to get things done at all, it's about real leadership, actually getting it done and being able to earn mutual respect in the process. Right now it looks to me like neither op nor her H are willing to take that lead both expect the other to. Something has to change and they each have equal power to change it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lon said:


> Yes, partly cloudy got it... it's not about "scheming" to get things done at all, it's about real leadership, actually getting it done and being able to earn mutual respect in the process. Right now it looks to me like neither op nor her H are willing to take that lead both expect the other to. Something has to change and they each have equal power to change it.


Please explain how the leadership works when they are supposed to be equal partners. How does someone get another person to follow when they don't want to.

He husband probably has some issues with being the lower income earner. He might also have an issue that he does not work with other people, feeling isolated, etc.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> It’s very aggravating, as the spouse, to be put in the position of having to figure out how to motive the other person to do what they should just do because it’s their responsibility.


OP's husband is probably thinking this very thing about sexual fulfillment, words of affirmation, and basic respect. 

If anything, H's real problem here could very well be a fear of conflict. 

I can't figure out what either OP or H is getting out of this marriage to be honest. If they separated, OP would be doing all the cleaning (like she does now), and H would be getting very little sex (like he does now). This does not strike me at all as a situation where OP is showering H with sex, affirmation, etc. and the H is sitting around doing nothing. Rather, this strikes me very much as a two-sided issue where neither side is getting their needs met.

A good lasting solution will involve both spouses communicating and learning about each other's needs and meeting them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Acorn said:


> OP's husband is probably thinking this very thing about sexual fulfillment, words of affirmation, and basic respect.


He very well might. As often happens they are stuck in a catch 22. The actions of each of them leads to neither of them getting their needs met.


Acorn said:


> If anything, H's real problem here could very well be a fear of conflict.


I have seen so many situations here where fear of conflict is a huge problem. If a marriage is going to work then he has to drop any fear of conflict. It comes a passive aggressive way of handling things. He is afraid to bring up his own issues but as ‘fear of conflict’. So instead he just does not do anything around the house and leaves everything up to her. 



Acorn said:


> I can't figure out what either OP or H is getting out of this marriage to be honest. If they separated, OP would be doing all the cleaning (like she does now), and H would be getting very little sex (like he does now). This does not strike me at all as a situation where OP is showering H with sex, affirmation, etc. and the H is sitting around doing nothing. Rather, this strikes me very much as a two-sided issue where neither side is getting their needs met.


Many marriages get into this cycle. It’s completely possible to fix this. The OP recognizes that she her level of frustration and anger are a problem now. That’s why she’s here.. not to give up on her marriage but to improve it.


Acorn said:


> A good lasting solution will involve both spouses communicating and learning about each other's needs and meeting them.


Often times it’s impossible to get both spouses communicating. He might be so dug into his passive aggressive conflict avoidance that he cannot give it up right now. But there are ways to attack this that can turn it around.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

a lot of people jumping on the husband here.

If I got off work @ 4 pm I could do ALL the chores and things she is expecting. not that she should.

but she should be the 1st to step up if she wants it done.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> a lot of people jumping on the husband here.
> 
> If I got off work @ 4 pm I could do ALL the chores and things she is expecting. not that she should.
> 
> but she should be the 1st to step up if she wants it done.


She apparently is the first and only one stepping up to get it done.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

aurentium said:


> Please help me. I can't work full time, care for our son, and run a household for three people. And here's the kicker, he can't understand why I'm too tired and stressed to have relations with him. ADVICE PLEASE !! ! Also, I feel like a nag and I really really hate that.


So he's a lazy slob.

But you knew that right? For 9 years.......

Did you expect him to change because you had a baby?

You have choices. You can look for a part-time job w/o a 2.5 hr. commute. You can stop working if you can afford it. You can hire a cleaning person. You can give him lists of things to do & nag him until he does it. You can insist on marriage counseling & try to get this all worked out.

Or you can appreciate what he DOES do, ACCEPT him as he is & enjoy your life.


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## PartlyCloudy (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The underlined is what I meant when I said "scheme".
> 
> I think that one of the things aggravating Aurentium is that he does not just do what he should be doing. It’s very aggravating, as the spouse, to be put in the position of having to figure out how to motive the other person to do what they should just do because it’s their responsibility.
> 
> Some here are saying that her tell him that she expects him to do things is demoralizing him. She should never have to ask, beg, plead and so forth to get him to do 50% of the child care and house chores. What he is doing is demoralizing her.


Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get how "finding a different way to go about it" would be seen as a "scheme." IMO, finding alternative solutions is good problem solving, not to mention conducive to a healthy marriage. It's not about trickery & deceit; it's about communication.

EleGirl, I completely agree with you-- she shouldn't have to keep asking him to help, especially if he naps & plays games. That's why I said I could tell right away how overwhelmed & frustrated she is, & I understand it. 

The thing is, though, that things aren't changing. Neither of them seems to be getting their needs met. Sure, they can keep doing it the same way they have, all the while growing more resentful & moaning about what the other "should" be doing.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Please explain how the leadership works when they are supposed to be equal partners. How does someone get another person to follow when they don't want to.
> 
> He husband probably has some issues with being the lower income earner. He might also have an issue that he does not work with other people, feeling isolated, etc.


Same way it does in every other aspect of a relationship, you play to your strengths, make decisions and stick with them, when something doesn't work you try something else. You can't force someone to follow but you can entice them to.

A couple times op has mentioned that the worst part of the mess is the baby bottles, and every day she gets home expecting to see them cleaned but finds them crusty...so then instead of repeating this every day and starting her home time disappointed, she could take what she knows (that he isn't going to do it himself) simply do it as soon as she gets in the door, decide to take on the task herself since it is more important to her than it obviously is to him, and then she wouldn't have to think to herself that her H let her down yet again, every day over and over. And maybe by doing this one little task each day her H would start respecting her, and she would be leading by example.

Is this fair? No more unfair than setting herself up for the same exact disappointment every single day.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

ATC529R said:


> a lot of people jumping on the husband here.
> 
> If I got off work @ 4 pm I could do ALL the chores and things she is expecting. not that she should.
> 
> but she should be the 1st to step up if she wants it done.


I have no problem going to bat for the husband to a degree in this situation.

That said, assuming OP's perceptions are accurate, it seems like H is not simply slacking off but rather in total shutdown. He sounds like a man that's either given up, or depressed, or just simply turned off for some reason. 

It does not sound healthy at all. Why would he not be willing to love his wife and step up just a little? Why wouldn't he love himself and react more strongly to the lack of affection and respect he is getting? Etc.

This goes much deeper than just chores IMO.


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## PartlyCloudy (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Often times it’s impossible to get both spouses communicating. He might be so dug into his passive aggressive conflict avoidance that he cannot give it up right now. *But there are ways to attack this that can turn it around.*


That's basically what I've been saying...for the most part anyway


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> just divorce already
> 
> it seems like you can do no wrong and he is the problem and cause of all wrong doing.
> 
> ...





EleGirl said:


> Do you think that a man has no responsibilities around the house? Or that it's ok if he just choses to not take care of his 50% of the responsibilities?


Or how about we recognize they have a 6 month old which throws ANY marriage into chaos. New parents have ZERO ability to know what is going to happen to them when child number 1 comes along. I think this is the biggest issue here. They need to reformulate a plan on how to manage the house and family.

Not just pick sides and assign blame. The wife has some REAL and justified issues that the husband needs to address. But I guarantee the husband in this isn't as bad as the wife makes him seem. I also guarantee the husband has his fair share of complaints about his wife. 

When you have a couple at wits end, EVERYTHING is blown out of proportion and usually has A LOT of misperceptions. Lets try and temper opinons...OP's yours as well.

Seriously, take a different approach with your husband. Also have you guys had ANY couple only time (more than an hour) like a weekend? If not, you need to reconnect. You're still husband and wife, even though your also mom and dad. Too many new parents forget they were husband and wife first.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> *Please explain how the leadership works when they are supposed to be equal partners.* How does someone get another person to follow when they don't want to.
> 
> He husband probably has some issues with being the lower income earner. He might also have an issue that he does not work with other people, feeling isolated, etc.


You really don't know?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I have no problem going to bat for the husband to a degree in this situation.
> 
> That said, assuming OP's perceptions are accurate, it seems like H is not simply slacking off but rather in total shutdown. He sounds like a man that's either given up, or depressed, or just simply turned off for some reason.
> 
> ...


Absoltely agree - the H must have some redeeming qualities, but they are all shut off and not coming through at all. I find it terribly sad.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> That's the point. If he has time to nap and play video games during his work hours then all this talk about multi-tasking is irrelevant. She is not asking him to multi-task.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


No point in arguing with a woman. Absolutely no point at all, you just make it up as you go along lol.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Acorn said:


> One other thing about this post that is flying under the radar (at least to me) is this: OP could recover 50 hours a month just by moving closer to work.
> 
> Whether OP chose to use that time to relax, reconnect with hubby, or what not, I can't help but think that it would be a huge quality of life improvement for all involved, considering at how stressed OP sounds.


That she could move closer to work is a big assumption. Millions of people who work in cities can't afford decent housing that is closer to work. The choice is often between crappy affordable housing in a lousy neighborhood 30 minutes from work or decent affordable housing 90 minutes away. Unfortunately, decent housing near to the 'big city' is very expensive. And finding work closer to home isn't that easy either.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

aurentium said:


> Please help me. I can't work full time, care for our son, and run a household for three people. And here's the kicker, he can't understand why I'm too tired and stressed to have relations with him. ADVICE PLEASE !! ! Also, I feel like a nag and I really really hate that.


Your order of priorities is off. I agree you cannot do all of these things well. And therefore your child and your husband suffer for it. Start at the top of your priority list and only do things you have the physical and mental energy to do well, and drop what you cannot do well.

If you can't do all these things stop doing them by stopping the least important thing on the list... And to me that is working full time. Being a mother is hugely important. Being a good wife is hugely important. Maintaining a home and household in a certain way plays into a wife's sense of fulfillment and is hugely important. Being a worker is not as important as these other things... 

And just do it..Inform your husband of your decision. And inform him how this will make you a better wife, a better mother, a happer person, and alot hornier. And your husband will learn one hell of alot about marriage and being a better husband and father in the process.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Aurentium,

I completely get what’s going on and your frustration. 

I agree that what your husband is doing is acting in a passive aggressive fashion. Something has his goat. The suggestion that he’s not getting his needs met in this relationship is a very good one. From what you have said there is a lack of sexual fulfillment, words of affirmation, and basic respect.

Well if a man does not get those things don’t expect much out of him. Yes I know you are not getting your needs met either. But you are the one who is here asking so you are the one who will need to make unilateral changes to fix this. All the talking in the world to him about cleaning and do chores is not going to fix this. It will just make him dig his heals in harder.

You have a shot at fixing this. You both will need to change, meeting each other's needs. But the change will most likely have to start from unilateral action. This means that you need to do the work necessary to make real changes in yourself that will cause real changes in your marriage. It sounds like a lot of the anger in your marriage stems from the both of you being very frustrated and not sure how to get your marriage on track. 

You cannot make him do anything. You cannot change him. The only thing you can do is to change the way you interact with him. This is about you focusing on yourself and you becoming an even better person and spouse. It’s about making permanent changes in how you interact with him.. good changes.

These changes are called a “180” (not the link in my signature block below). The 180 means that you do things differently from the way you have been. If you do this he will have to change. You cannot control how he changes but he will change. If he changes for the better your marriage will benefit. If he chooses to dig himself a deeper hole and continues to act badly or worse.. then you will know it’s time to leave the marriage.

The things that I can see you need to do in your 180 are

1.	Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2.	Do not ask for reassurances.
3.	Be engaged in all aspects of life. Do social things outside the home. Do something once every week or two.
4.	Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
5.	Do not be nasty, angry or even cold
6.	No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
7.	All discussions about marriage/issues should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
8.	Never lose your cool.
9.	Don't be overly enthusiastic.
10.	Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
11.	Be patient
12.	Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
13.	Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
14.	Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
15.	Be strong and confident.
16.	Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
17.	Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
18.	Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
19.	Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
20.	Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
21.	If you need household help hire someone once a week, bi-weekly, whatever you an afford. IF he asks you why, tell him that you are both over stressed and you want to make sure that the two of you have time time and energy to spend 15 hours a week together and for a hot sex life. (It takes 15 hours a week with the two of you doing things where you focus on each other to maintain the emotional connection in your marriage.
22.	Make sure he gets plenty of of sexual fulfillment, words of affirmation, and basic respect.

The 180 is NOT a manipulation. It’s about you doing the right thing. You being the one to break down the wall between the two of you. It’s about you being a better person.

Here is a list of books that can help you. Often times I find that one good self-help book is worth hours, months, even years of counseling. All of the suggested books are available through Amazon.com and other book sellers and on the web sites of the authors. I suggest that your spouse not see these books nor see you reading them. Otherwise they might get the idea that you are making temporary changes to suck them back into the marriage. This is not about temporary changes just to achieve your goal.

Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again, Michele Weiner Davis – talks about the 180 and using unilateral changes to improve a marriage, great for communication, and for taking responsibility and action to improve your quality of life. Then this one does a very good job of explaining how to use unilateral action/changes to improve/save your marriage… 


Fight Less, Love More: 5-Minute Conversations to Change Your Relationship without Blowing Up or Giving In, Laurie Puhn. - Ways to tackle problems in a common sense way, and open direct, honest communication in areas of conflict.

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert, John Gottman. - Ideas and activities to go through to understand each other more and strengthen your bond together.


“His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”, Dr. Harley… good guides for how to meet each other needs and rebuild to a passionate marriage.


How Can I Be Your Lover, When I'm Too Busy Being Your Mother? Sara Dimerman and J. Kearns. - Common passion killing pitfalls that couples unwittingly succumb to, and how to become partners again.

How Can I Be Your Lover When I'm Too Busy Being Your Mother?: The Answer to Becoming Partners 
That's a good pile to start with. If you start to change the dynamic for the better, your husband cannot help but change too. You might be surprised how easy it is, once you have some constructive goals and direction!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Emerald said:


> So he's a lazy slob.
> 
> But you knew that right? For 9 years.......
> 
> ...


It's hard to enjoy life when a person has no time to enjoy it because they are doing everything.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> It's hard to enjoy life when a person has no time to enjoy it because they are doing everything.


Which is ironic because most type A people will tell you that by filling up their schedule it makes them happy. The thing is, they will fill up their schedule no matter what, it's what they choose to fill it up with that is the problem.

No matter how OP and her H end up managing this problem (whether they figure out a way to have a functioning home or not), the only one thing that is certain is that if they include each other in their schedules they will have a marriage, and if the exclude each other from their schedules the marriage is essentially over already.

I get what Hicks is saying about priorities, even though I don't understand what he is recommending (to quit her job?? bad idea I think).


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think most of the OPs issues are with her tone. Her approach. That is what turned many posters against her.

I believe she has reason to not be happy with her husband. That he needs to step it up and contribute more.

I just think her tone and rejection (sex) has turned him off. She needs to find a way to get him motivated again. What she has been doing isn't working.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think most of the OPs issues are with her tone. Her approach. That is what turned many posters against her.
> 
> I believe she has reason to not be happy with her husband. That he needs to step it up and contribute more.
> 
> I just think her tone and rejection (sex) has turned him off. She needs to find a way to get him motivated again. What she has been doing isn't working.


I don't think any of us have turned against her, I think we all see clearly that her H is being a lump, and we certainly have some empathy for her. Nor is it her responsibility to motivate him, but I think it is her responsibility to find a way to make it work for her. I don't think the marriage has to be put in jeapordy, and I don't think divorce could offer any real solution because it really isn't a situation where either spouse is holding the other back, there is still mutual benefit to having each other it just isn't working optimally. My big concern is my suspicion that she may begin to feel a sense of superiority though, that she is above him, and THAT will kill a relationship almost instantly, even though it may not be true.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

VermisciousKnid said:


> That she could move closer to work is a big assumption. Millions of people who work in cities can't afford decent housing that is closer to work. The *choice* is often between crappy affordable housing in a lousy neighborhood 30 minutes from work or decent affordable housing 90 minutes away. Unfortunately, decent housing near to the 'big city' is very expensive.  And finding work closer to home *isn't that easy* either.


I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

That said, OP thinks that H makes poor choices during the day and would like him to step up and make efforts that are not easy for him.

It would be reasonable for her to analyze her choices and whether or not she's tried things that aren't easy for her before she does so.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

I think the OP should just stop expecting her H to do house work during the day. He is supposed to be working for his employer. If he isn't being productive during that time it should be between him and his boss. The fact that he works from home is not that relevant.

Instead, why not just ask that he does his share of the chores after work like the OP. If he can manage to get them done during the day then he can play his games at that time.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well I don't know about that, I'm actually a good multi-tasker at work when it's quiet and I have few staff on. But maybe that's just the nature of my industry...
> 
> Oh, and found this randomly browsing:
> Men ARE better at multitasking than women, Swedish researchers claim | Mail Online
> ...


I was a concierge in some of NY's major hotels for years, and I was considered damn good at it. In Hospitality if you can't multitask well, you're dead in the water.

I have never, in my life, heard somebody suggest that men don't multitask.


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## DangerousCurves (Jul 18, 2012)

If he has time to play video games then he has time to do chores that contribute to the welfare of his family. He is lazy, and his priorities are screwed up. Period. Twist it every which way you want guys, but it's the truth.

I work from home, too, btw.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Let me start off by saying that I totally agree with the general consensus, mainly from the women it seems, that this man needs to do more domestic work. I say this as a man who loathes domestic chores, but still, it's unfair that she is working full time, AND making most of the money, AND doing most of the rearing, AND handling most of the chores. To make matters worse, the man is just terrible at it, and neglectful. Her frustration is palpable, and real. 

I do agree with others that it comes down to approach. It can never be underestimated how proud people, especially men, can be. Even if he's in the wrong, it might be a lot easier to catch flies with honey than spam. So she should proceed with caution, lest even more resentment settles in on both their parts.

I do think the whole napping/video games business is being blown out of proportion. I say that because, like the OP, people don't seem to be applying the same criteria for homeworkers as they do others. In many, many jobs across our fair land, there is actually a ton of downtime. I was a concierge at busy hotels in NYC for years, and the pace could be brutal during high times, but still there were plenty of hours a week with down time. My mother worked for the US Department of Education for 41 years, and trust me, those workers had massive downtime. I know plenty of people who have copious amounts of lull in their jobs. The spend that time working on personal projects, playing games like free cell, chatting it up with co-workers, reading, internet surfing, you name it. This reality is totally accepted among the the American worker. There can sometimes be a large margin between the amount of hours you're contracted to work during any given day, and the amount of hours you actually do work. Be honest with yourself, and you might see that you waste plenty of potential man hours a month. Sometimes it's a lack of personal productivity, and sometimes it's that you work a job that doesn't have constant streams of work for anybody to handle, both very common scenarios. And what of you work at one of the companies that has instituted nap time? I recall when more companies started doing that, it was mainly applauded, and not looked upon as lazy.

Now what would you do if your spouse came to your job and told you that they wanted you to handle the lull periods better? What if they insinuated themselves into your outside-the-home job, and expected you to buck the trend of relaxing during the down times, and fill up every single hour of your day with other, non-job related issues. How would you take that? Them coming to your place of work and dictating how to do your job, and what to do with your schedule while at work?

What about the commute home? Some workers can spend hours a day commuting. Does the non-commuting spouse have the right to dictate what the commuter does with that mostly down time?

This is how the home worker might feel. It seems to be perfectly alright for tens of millions of people in this nation to spend copious amounts of time not working at their jobs, but it's all justified because of their location outside of the home. Meanwhile the home worker, whether they be a full time parent, or someone with a job, or business, based out of their house, is expected to work non-stop from top of the day, until the end, or else they're lazy. So taking time to watch a TV program, play a video game, or take a nap is seen as slacking off at the job, while you might work in an office where folks around you are playing solitaire, chit chatting, and bumming mindlessly around the internet, for untold hours per week. Yet it's not uncommon for the outside worker to naturally expect the at home worker to handle two, or more, jobs at once.

But why? Are you expected to do the same at your office?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jaquen,

You make some very good points. I've worked at home on and off in my career. There was a time a few years back when I would not tell my mother that I was working at home. She did not drive. So she figured that working at home meant I was not working and she'd come up with list of places she just had to go or things she needed help with.

I think that the OP would not be so upset if when they were both home he would do about half of what needed to be done around the house and about half the child care.

So in her frustration she has started to nit pick.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Some suggestions. 

1. Make suggestions in a non-critical way. Not, the house is a mess, the dishes are dirty, do you know how stressed I feel, do you understand, blah, blah. Instead, I appreciate the work you do, I'd appreciate if you could wash the dishes and then put them in the dishwasher. 

2. If 80% is done right, compliment him on the 80% done right, rather than the 20 that needs improvement. 

3. Not sayings you aren't right about some of these things, but this is the guy you chose and decided to have a baby with. 

4. Think if there is a way to organize the work better. Carefully evaluate what approach works best.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some suggestions.
> 
> 1. Make suggestions in a non-critical way. Not, the house is a mess, the dishes are dirty, do you know how stressed I feel, do you understand, blah, blah. Instead, I appreciate the work you do, I'd appreciate if you could wash the dishes and then put them in the dishwasher.
> 
> ...


Zombie thread from 2012


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

This is a thread from 2012.......


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