# levels of adultery - ONS, ongoing or serial cheating



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

The tears thread and various strength and diversity of responses in it got me thinking about this 

That particular sad tale was all based upon a one night stand infidelity and tragically it looks like Mr tears has ended it all and of course no one can blame him for that 

In my own experience of a serial adulterer who stupidly I forgave time after time I would have definitely gone on to give a second chance (and no doubt the same results) 

I do often see on here the huge efforts to reconcile after one or two chances and all the endless difficulties it causes between the two parties.

I'm surprised a man can make a definite conclusive decision after one indiscretion/mistake especially a one night stand

I can see generally the feeling about ons is that "cheating is cheating and that's that" however I do not subscribe to that being as bad as a prolonged organised destructive deceitful affair that smashes probably two marriages assunder all with forethought and malice.

A one night stand by it's very nature limited damage and often with alcohol involved I don't put quite in the same bracket as planned affairs 

I know we are all different and have different boundaries

Do people feel they are the same? that to say "it's all cheating so that's that" it covers all the infidelity sins?


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I understand there are levels of infidelity BUT once an infidelity is physical the games over for me.

I couldn't forgive a long emotional/physical affair because of the emotional aspect mostly.

I couldn't forgive a one night stand because one night stands are usually a lifestyle and not a singular mistake.
I couldn't trust them alone for even a night.

I fear the one night stand more than anything actually because it's unlikely I`d ever be able to discover a series of totally uncommitted sexual liaisons. 

Once physical, I`m done.
Played this game before.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Yes, people are too lenient on ONS's. They aren't a one-time mistake like people make them out to be, he/she didn't slip and accidentally started having sex. They picked up a guy/girl, knew %100 what they were doing, did the nasty, had their fun, and if they get caught, "it was a one-time mistake, I wasn't thinking clearly." If they choose to confess it is to relieve the burden on their conscience, not because they love their spouse.

I think tears's husband got it right with the attitude, I know that this is a marriage forum, and we're supposed to be pro-marriage but not under these circumstances... If he hadn't gone all nuclear, she would lose respect and attraction for him, or worse go back to cheating on him after a remorseful period.

I know that cheaters aren't evil, but once that line is crossed I would never ever try to reconcile, even if I was to blame for all the marital problems. But maybe i'm just jaded because I've been burnt by reconcilliation twice (by the same person lol).


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I understand there are levels of infidelity BUT once an infidelity is physical the games over for me.
> 
> I couldn't forgive a long emotional/physical affair because of the emotional aspect mostly.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. There is no silver lining to a ONS. You can say there was no emotional bonding. Ok fine. What this says is that your spouse was willing to bang someone else and was not even under the influenece of emotional bonding. This was a lifestyel choice.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I met a beautiful young, married, woman many years ago that drove about 30 miles with her girlfriends to Lousiville for the purpose of getting laid once a week. Whem we learned they were married we went on about our business. Or so I thought. One of my friends it turns out, started hooking up regularly.

Another real beauty used to bang another friend of mine. She would not date him even before she married a dentist. But she wanted him just for sex every once in a while, even after she married.

GNOs? I don't think so. I saw way to much as I put off marriage until my miidle thirties. I found women to be way more coniving than most people think. 

One of the most shocking things I learned, is that women can't trust their closest friends and family either.

And BTW, I know of a newly wed that ended up in the back seat of a car too. The dude thought it was odd that she would not give her number. He found out she had married about a month later.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

In general, I think there are people who have learned that the best thing to do is to cut someone off when they have done the wrong thing by them and don't look back. 

For example, the things that I have read about JFK, Jr, that anyone who talked to the press about him was completely cut out of his life. No explanations, no second chances.

and so it is with some people about other matters, like cheating. When I was younger and had trouble making and maintaining friendships, I used to give the benefit of the doubt often. Then I noitced that some people, if they didn't like something that you did, no discussion, no second chances, you noticed that they stopped returning your phone calls...... and that's that.

I am assuming that this attitude towards usual social infractions, ie forgetting your wallet; being 10 minutes late; and so on gets carried onto bigger issues like committing adultery.....


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Hard question, and I don't think there are hard and fast rules.

My general principle is that I don't want an unfaithful spouse, but I accept we are imperfect. I have forgiven an affair, and in the process of dealing with it came close to both an affair and a ONS myself.

If my wife did it again there would want to be some amazing extenuating circumstance for me not to walk. I simply cannot conceive anything I would regard as acceptable.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The Tears story is not based on what I would call a ONS. Sex one time, yes, but not a classic ONS where she got drunk and ended up in OMs bed.

Tears went on a GNO and flirted with a guy she was attracted to and ended up giving him her phone number. Bad choice #1.

The next day he called and asked her on a lunch date, she accepted. Bad choice #2.

He asked her to go to his apartment and she did. She was not drunk at this time. Bad choice #3.

She had unprotected sex with him. Bad choice #4.

I understand that the discussion here is not about this, but since you referenced her thread as the instigator, I do not agree that what Tears did can be called a ONS.

It was planned from the time she met the guy the first night, otherwise she would not have given him her number, agreed to a date, went to his apartment and gave herself to OM.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Adultery is adultery. Bring the rocks.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Adultery is adultery. Bring the rocks.


Beating your old lady is beating your old lady. Bring the rocks

For some reason I can see my chick buried under rocks and me being buried under rocks...and reaching out to each other....knowing we diserve this.

But how many rocks can we throw at each other before we stp throwing rocks?

We would rather each of us phuck each other to death then have that kind of hate for each other.

All the bad choice we make can never account for the one good one that can change our life as individuales for the rest of our lifes.

Phuck her bad choices....don't walk behind me and don't walk in front of me, but walk next to me. My point is no matter the level of infildelity, its the degree a wayward has in turning it around. not for their spouse but for them selves and the life changing event that tells them that their life choice is unhealthy for the wayward, for ther spouse and for their family.


Rare as it may be one can change their spots! So ya cheating is cheating but in the same breath remorse....real remorse is remorse!

So yes it cover all the sins of adultory no matter ONS or LTA. The end game is were the both of you want to be as individuals. can a wayward change ? Can a betrayed forgive? Is the wayward worth forgiving? Can the wayward change their spots?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Some times I wonder if I do more harm then good around here?


----------



## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

These are all very sad. No matter what the kind of infidelity or adultery there is always betrayal and pain.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Adultery is adultery. Bring the rocks.


That is the truth.

Whether to divorce a WS has nothing to do with what happened in the affair.

Marriages have ended with a ONS and marriages have recovered with the OM knocking up the WW.

A marriage ends because the BS has zero capability to move past their WS cheating on them.

A marriage ends when the WS had already made their decision to end the marriage before the affair was discovered. A walk away spouse.

No one has to forgive or accept anything in life. One can hold a grudge forever.

One can forgive whatever they want. Whenever they want.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Yes, people are too lenient on ONS's. They aren't a one-time mistake like people make them out to be, he/she didn't slip and accidentally started having sex. They picked up a guy/girl, knew %100 what they were doing, did the nasty, had their fun, and if they get caught, "it was a one-time mistake, I wasn't thinking clearly." If they choose to confess it is to relieve the burden on their conscience, not because they love their spouse.
> 
> I think tears's husband got it right with the attitude, I know that this is a marriage forum, and we're supposed to be pro-marriage but not under these circumstances... If he hadn't gone all nuclear, she would lose respect and attraction for him, or worse go back to cheating on him after a remorseful period.
> 
> I know that cheaters aren't evil, but once that line is crossed I would never ever try to reconcile, even if I was to blame for all the marital problems. But maybe i'm just jaded because I've been burnt by reconcilliation twice (by the same person lol).



So...just to play devil's advocate...'for better or worse' always has the caveat...if you slip once, it's over. 

Allow me to ask a specific question: You are out drinking with friends. Your wife says to you "Shadow, you're too drunk...you can't drive."

You, with the smug assurance that many people half in the bag feel, say no...you're fine. You can drive home.

So you drive. You DRUNKENLY CHOOSE to drive. You have an accident and you break your wife's hip and her trust that you care about her well being. She BEGGED you not to drive...and you did.

Now she permanently has this limp.

So...how is this different then a drunken ONS? Should she divorce you?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I like grudge's, the phucker that shot me in a hold up has his day coming.
As far as slapping my old lady around I hope that she doesn't hold a grudge.
As far as her phucking every one in town ...well I seem to be the better phuck cuz she keeps coming back no matter how hard I push her away.

Guys, I am not a nice man, but I can tell when a chick holds a grudge.....I know when I hold a grugde and grudges suck big time.........I wish I knew how to get rid of some of the grudges I currently have? But I do like the ones I have!


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Some times I wonder if I do more harm then good around here?


Sometimes people need a dissenting viewpoint.


----------



## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Headspin said:


> I'm surprised a man can make a definite conclusive decision after one indiscretion/mistake especially a one night stand
> 
> I can see generally the feeling about ons is that "cheating is cheating and that's that" however I do not subscribe to that being as bad as a prolonged organised destructive deceitful affair that smashes probably two marriages assunder all with forethought and malice.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how having lack of feelings for the person you cheated with makes it better than a scenario where the wayward spouse has an emotional attachment to the affair partner. If anything, having feelings for the affair partner would hurt like hell to hear as the betrayed spouse, but it makes it more understandable. A one night stand where one is so overcome by lust means the cheating spouse can very easily drop the boundaries when temptation comes in the form of an attractive person. I would be more understanding of a long-term friendship at work or elsewhere that morphs into an emotional attachment then to a physical affair than a one-night stand with some random attractive stranger. A one night stand means that they have so little regard for you that they're willing to throw away what you have with them for one night of sex with some random person they found attractive. It is never a mistake, but a choice.


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I'd much rather be hit by a truck _once_, as opposed to getting run over
again and again and again...


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

JCD said:


> So...how is this different then a drunken ONS? Should she divorce you?


Well, let's hope that never happens.

I think that's worse but very different than a drunken ONS. 

-There is permanent physical damage, which she(my hypothethical wife) would live with forever/Not even a scratch comes to the BS, not unless there are psychopaths involved anyway . 

-There would be the selfesteem issues in both situations, although after infidelity it's more internal and can be much more easily cured(go have a revenge affair lol). 

-On the other hand, there is no evidence that there was a loss of love, attraction or emotional connection that would make a person drive while drunk. There was a loss of intelligence and common sense,though.

-And last, when you are driving drunk you think that probably nothing will happen. In infidelity, you just don't fcking care about what happens.

So, I don't know if she should divorce me in that hypothethical situation. I don't know what I would do if the tables were turned either. If this is combined with other stuff, maybe.

But to comment on the "Tears" stuff, I didn't post in the original thread because I didn't want to sound unemphatetic or bossy. But if the "Before you decide to leave. read my story" by imadeamistake has taught me anything, if tears's husband had takenn a softer approach, law of probability dictates that she would be losing attraction and respect for him and maybe even continuing the affair. I see people talking here about "real remorse". Well, even real remorse isn't unconditional and there is no way to prove that it is "real" in the short run. So I'd let someone who cheated, doesn't matter emotional or physical, live their remorse elsewhere. If you love them, let them go, right?


----------



## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

If you cheat on me then screw you, I'm no-one's second choice or 'home comfort'. If you want to put your d*ck in someone else then go and be with them.

I don't care if it's a ONS or long term affair, they are both bad in their own way


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> The Tears story is not based on what I would call a ONS. Sex one time, yes, but not a classic ONS where she got drunk and ended up in OMs bed.
> 
> Tears went on a GNO and flirted with a guy she was attracted to and ended up giving him her phone number. Bad choice #1.
> 
> ...


could someone remind me what motivated her to tell her husband?


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I recently found out my WS had a low number of sexual encounters with OW, and that the flirting by text message and phone went on for a few months before it got physical. So this all started about half a year ago.

I have to say that R is a less daunting a concept under these circumstances, for me, than if I'd found out he'd been doing it with her for years, or if he'd been with multiple women.

However, I think everybody's different. Someone might be more able to cope with things I just couldn't. It's been hard enough as it is with the situation I've been dealt; but I think I'd be a complete wreck if I'd found out he'd been having sex with her for a year or two or three.


----------



## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> So...just to play devil's advocate...'for better or worse' always has the caveat...if you slip once, it's over.
> 
> Allow me to ask a specific question: You are out drinking with friends. Your wife says to you "Shadow, you're too drunk...you can't drive."
> 
> ...


this is different because she has a choice - she knows you're p1ssed but she still gets in the car, silly girl. she should have called a taxi. she had the choice.


----------



## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

the guy said:


> I like grudge's, the phucker that shot me in a hold up has his day coming.
> As far as slapping my old lady around I hope that she doesn't hold a grudge.
> As far as her phucking every one in town ...well I seem to be the better phuck cuz she keeps coming back no matter how hard I push her away.
> 
> Guys, I am not a nice man, but I can tell when a chick holds a grudge.....I know when I hold a grugde and grudges suck big time.........I wish I knew how to get rid of some of the grudges I currently have? But I do like the ones I have!


as someone once said...

"to err is human, to forgive is divine - but to hold a grudge is far more entertaining."


----------



## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> Sometimes people need a dissenting viewpoint.


if all posters on TAM followed a 'party line' it would be a far less valuable resourse.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Yessongs72 said:


> this is different because she has a choice - she knows you're p1ssed but she still gets in the car, silly girl. she should have called a taxi. she had the choice.


And husbands are guilted, pressured, bullied, cajoled and talked into the stupidity that is GNO. "Don't you love me? Don't you TRUST me?"

Well...at the time, yes he does, so that is flat emotional manipulation and blackmail.

And it's the same thing. A guy will explain at length how he's just a little buzzed, I'm fine, it will take a taxi 2 hours to get here and cost a hundred dollars to get you home (America is a big place. Not everywhere is NYC or Europe)

So people go along to get along. She doesn't need to get in the car, facing a huge row when she gets home...and he doesn't need to let her go on a GNO, facing a huge row for the next three weeks and a sexual deep freeze.

I am glad you never capitulated to anyone on anything. I admire you.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Yessongs72 said:


> as someone once said...
> 
> "to err is human, to forgive is divine - but to hold a grudge is far more entertaining."


As far as my old lady goes...I must be one divine S O B !!!!!


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

How can anyone say a ONS, is not as damaging or worse than a prolonged A.

Yes ONS, crop up in different circumstances---but a cheating spouse has to go thru 7, stop signs to have that ONS---and in every instance the about to be cheating spouse KNOWS WHAT THEY HAVE BACK HOME, and what lives they are about to ruin.

Stops signs run would be, starting a conversation with a possible target, letting the conversation get around to talk that should not be occurring, deciding to hook-up after leaving the place you are now at, actually going somewhere with the target, preparations to proceed into illicit activities, foreplay, sex itself---how many is that---7 stop signs run

Please do not even go there using alcohol as an excuse----a falling down drunk still knows what they are doing, and they know RIGHT FROM WRONG

A ONS, is complete and total "dissing" of H., children, and
family. The cheater knows what they are doing and they F'ing Darn well WANT TO PROCEED with what they are doing----it is not a mistake---it is a serious of THOUGHT OUT CHOICES, knowing full well what the consequences could/would be, and still going ahead, with their adulterous act.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> If you cheat on me then screw you, I'm no-one's second choice or 'home comfort'. If you want to put your d*ck in someone else then go and be with them.
> 
> I don't care if it's a ONS or long term affair, they are both bad in their own way


Dolly ... have to say ... I love your 'don't take no sh!t' attitude.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Illuminating replies and thanks 

For me I totally accept what a lot of you say about the brevity of the ONS but personally as it lacks a real planned and malice intended approach I feel it is just less of a deceit

I think maybe I should have said, qualified it, with the ONS that is 'off the cuff' all girls out having a laugh and when in a drunken 'haze', the eyes meet, the hormones race "it's just fun and a one off" and the deed is done and gone forever and maybe regretted within hours or even instantly

as opposed to the regular girls night out _with the intention of taking advantage_ of an opportunity that may or may not arise. I do feel there is a difference in that. 

One is more 'it just happened' and the other is knowing it will inevitably happen.

I do think both of these occur and there is a difference in intent that is maybe forgivable a first time.

Btw the poster who mentioned that 'tears' was not a simple GNO yes you're right maybe her excellent and utterly remorseful reaction to it all implanted in my mind the it 'just happened' scenario in my head but yes agreed it was not quite as I imagined it to be.

Saying that I think as a first time 'huge mistake' and given her reaction to it I'd consider taking her back.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Explain to me how you FORGIVE, a spouse who KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THEMSELVES, to be taken, no matter how it happens

How do you forgive----- tell me how you handle it

I just kind of wonder, when you are alone at work, or wake at 3 a m--or are in the car driving when alone-----knowing that another person has been inside your spouse, has put his/her hands all over their body, has had his/her lips, tongue,---- all over your spouses lips---possible their "tool" inside your spouse's mouth or the other way around----and YOUR SPOUSE WILLINGLY ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN----WANTED, that to happen---do you understand that, WANTED IT TO HAPPEN----how do you forgive that-------just out of curiosity---do you have any mirrors in your home??????


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Explain to me how you FORGIVE, a spouse who KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THEMSELVES, to be taken, no matter how it happens
> 
> How do you forgive----- tell me how you handle it
> 
> I just kind of wonder, when you are alone at work, or wake at 3 a m--or are in the car driving when alone-----knowing that another person has been inside your spouse, has put his/her hands all over their body, has had his/her lips, tongue,---- all over your spouses lips---possible their "tool" inside your spouse's mouth or the other way around----and YOUR SPOUSE WILLINGLY ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN----WANTED, that to happen---do you understand that, WANTED IT TO HAPPEN----how do you forgive that-------just out of curiosity---do you have any mirrors in your home??????


Hehe 

well if I knew (if we all knew!) how to forgive and move on with it all in a nice easy way, life would be so much easier wouldn't it.

In my own experience I feel ( and I might well be wrong) I'd have a better shout at forgiving a one off crazy night of meaningless sex rather than a prolonged organized period of utter emotional destruction that has malice and bad intentions for months, years on end knowing full well the huge pain and repercussions that action will result in.

Surely the fact that somebody has full control in how they actually hurt you is a key factor here. I'm not convinced all ONS are that controlled and pre meditated for which they fall into a different category imo 

I'm not arguing for one or the other here just highlighting that imo all infidelities are not the same in terms of making the choice to do it.

In a sense many are saying that there is no such thing as an 'accidental' infidelity and I do see how that can be the view _but_ sometimes things / events in life over even hours can spiral out of control and to places where one would never really want to take them.

I see less irretrievable damage done by a one off ons than a lengthy pre meditated path of selfish and willful cake eating that we so often see as the norm for the wayward spouse

my opinion


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Explain to me how you FORGIVE, a spouse who KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THEMSELVES, to be taken, no matter how it happens
> 
> How do you forgive----- tell me how you handle it
> 
> I just kind of wonder, when you are alone at work, or wake at 3 a m--or are in the car driving when alone-----knowing that another person has been inside your spouse, has put his/her hands all over their body, has had his/her lips, tongue,---- all over your spouses lips---possible their "tool" inside your spouse's mouth or the other way around----and YOUR SPOUSE WILLINGLY ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN----WANTED, that to happen---do you understand that, WANTED IT TO HAPPEN----how do you forgive that-------just out of curiosity---do you have any mirrors in your home??????


Some times you trigger and it hurts.

I'm old enough that I am unlikely to have a relationship with a virgin, and if they are a virgin they probably have not worked through their sexuality properly. So everyone I can have is "used".

I judge my wife learned from her mistake, and is a better than average bet for fidelity in future.

I think there are some people who have to walk away from a cheating spouse because the spouse is the source of so many triggers. I just don't see it that way, but I sure get why others do.

You don't know how you will react until you are there. I certainly didn't expect to be there when I married.


----------



## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

the guy said:


> Beating your old lady is beating your old lady. Bring the rocks
> 
> For some reason I can see my chick buried under rocks and me being buried under rocks...and reaching out to each other....knowing we diserve this.
> 
> ...



If there is true remorse then forgive her but reconciliation is a different story. Not a chance.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I guess where I am coming from---is that the cheating spouse, does not just fall into what they are doing---they are making decisions to have the ONS----and that holds in all types of ONS, however someone wants to label them---the cheating spouse KNOWS WHAT THE REPERCUSSIONS WILL BE, before they start on any path leading to the ONS, they full well know the repercussions, that will hit the spouse, the kids, and the mge., itself---they know exactly what they are doing, and what the results will be, for themselves, and all those in their lives.

I agree with the rest of you, in that everyone is different, and each will decide their future, and who to carry on that future with, in their own way---but as far as I am concerned one time over one crazy, mixed up night, or over one pre-determined night---or 50 times over 1 year or more----or whatever else the cheater might do to wreck the mge., and family, they all have the same end result----THE BETRAYED IS SCARED FOR LIFE------I am sure there is forgiveness---there are those who forgive murderers, but is there really ever a complete forgetting of what happens-----IMHO---it never goes away---and it especially hurts the "nice guy, nice girl" the not so great looking, but good, innocent, who wouldn't hurt a flea, type of betrayed----sometimes so much so that suicide results-------just my opinion.


----------



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Explain to me how you FORGIVE, a spouse who KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THEMSELVES, to be taken, no matter how it happens
> 
> How do you forgive----- tell me how you handle it
> 
> I just kind of wonder, when you are alone at work, or wake at 3 a m--or are in the car driving when alone-----knowing that another person has been inside your spouse, has put his/her hands all over their body, has had his/her lips, tongue,---- all over your spouses lips---possible their "tool" inside your spouse's mouth or the other way around----and YOUR SPOUSE WILLINGLY ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN----WANTED, that to happen---do you understand that, WANTED IT TO HAPPEN----how do you forgive that-------just out of curiosity---do you have any mirrors in your home??????



yes i have mirrors in my home.
and when i look in them, i see the imperfect person that i am. same as my imperfect wife.
everyone makes mistakes.
not everyone learns from them.
THAT is how i handle it.
i havent forgiven, so to speak. but i am on the path to doing it.
and like wazza said...my wife wasnt an untouched virgin when i met her.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Explain to me how you FORGIVE, a spouse who KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THEMSELVES, to be taken, no matter how it happens
> 
> How do you forgive----- tell me how you handle it
> 
> I just kind of wonder, when you are alone at work, or wake at 3 a m--or are in the car driving when alone-----knowing that another person has been inside your spouse, has put his/her hands all over their body, has had his/her lips, tongue,---- all over your spouses lips---possible their "tool" inside your spouse's mouth or the other way around----and YOUR SPOUSE WILLINGLY ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN----WANTED, that to happen---do you understand that, WANTED IT TO HAPPEN----how do you forgive that-------just out of curiosity---do you have any mirrors in your home??????


Tell me...was your wife a virgin when she came to you?

And let me put some stuff in context. That fight you had...you know...when you said those awful things? You KNEW what effect that would have on your marriage. When you stuff a HoHo down your throat, you KNOW what effect it will have on your health, particularly since the doctor told you about your heart condition and your latent type II diabetes. Same as alcoholic driving. Same as that bad investment with the kids college fund which...just didn't work out quite the way you believed.

(Note: I use the term 'you' generically)

People can be very selectively short sighted when it's in their interest. There are LOTS of mistakes which can have negative consequences to a marriage. Maybe you aren't a cheater. Maybe you're a drinker, a gambler, or a guy who spends 4 days a week playing sports with the lads instead of quality time with the wife.

I would assume that you'd like some clemency for some of the messed up junk you do. But to be worthy of grace, you have to be willing to GIVE grace.

That being said, I'm a rat bastard and I agree with you. If she puts out, because of the nature of my job, she's history.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> could someone remind me what motivated her to tell her husband?


Many members of this board, me included.


----------



## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Headspin said:


> The tears thread and various strength and diversity of responses in it got me thinking about this
> 
> That particular sad tale was all based upon a one night stand infidelity and tragically it looks like Mr tears has ended it all and of course no one can blame him for that
> 
> ...



We all have opinions. Is all murder the same? Is all stealing the same? Are all affairs the same? Of course NOT!

ONS- I could definitely forgive.

EA- It depends how long it was a couple of months I definitely could.

PA- Not a ONS multiple times a definite attraction is there would be hard.

EA/PA- Deep feelings and lots of sex NOPE would be filing for divorce ASAP.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Too many of you keep referring to various forms of adultery as a mistake---I WANT SOMEONE, ANYONE TO SHOW ME HOW THIS IS A MISTAKE-------It is a F'ing SERIES OF CHOICES----NOT A MISTAKE


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> Many members of this board, me included.


Sorry Larry, not so.

From first post on her thread.



> My husband returned home from a business trip last friday. I contemplated about keeping what I had done a secret but I struggled with my guilt from the day that i cheated (last monday) till the time my husband came home, and I broke down and told him everything.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Too many of you keep referring to various forms of adultery as a mistake---I WANT SOMEONE, ANYONE TO SHOW ME HOW THIS IS A MISTAKE-------It is a F'ing SERIES OF CHOICES----NOT A MISTAKE


Choices can be mistaken choices. Maybe bad choices is a better phrase.

To me calling it a mistake doesn't mean they didn't make a decision to do something wrong. It means that it was out of character but I can see how they got there and have some confidence it won't happen again.


----------



## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

naga75 said:


> ...my wife wasnt an untouched virgin when i met her.


While I understand this thought process, my brain still rejects it like bad medicine. 
Doesn't ease my pain or worries.
I'm glad it does for others though.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> While I understand this thought process, my brain still rejects it like bad medicine.
> Doesn't ease my pain or worries.
> I'm glad it does for others though.


Doesn't ease the pain.

It just helps in a realistic acceptance of options. Separation would not ease my pain either.


----------



## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe we need to actually say what it is they do instead of calling it something vague like an affair or "ONS" or a PA.

She opened her legs for another man and let him xxx inside her. I don't care if she was drunk or not or emotionally attached or not, I don't care if she enjoyed it or not or if it was one time vs 10 times. The fact is I can't get past her opening her legs the first time for someone other than me during our covenant of marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Overcooking something is a mistake. 

F^cking someone is a choice to betray someone who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to you.

It does not take a perfect person to not F^ck someone else.

This ability to not F^ck someone else is not like a hard thing. This is not placing the bar very high.

But I get it. Some folks do not really care.

But I still say a ONS is a blatant betrayal because there was no emotional pressure there. It was all, I am going to F^ck this person because I can and the hell with my spouse. Yeah that is the woman for me. Yeah give that woman who can be picked up in a bar by a stranger and who will spread her legs for anyone. Yeah baby, I think that is just ok and understandable even. Right. That woman has great value.  I want her to have my kids or at least I want to raise her kids.


But I should point out that in choosing a wife I think that she should have compatible values and sexual history. I would value a woman who had some reasonable finite number of faithful monogamous relationships. ONSs would devlaue that by a bunch. I would not be shocked if someone married a woman with a large number of ONSs and then had more after marriage because that is her go to sexual lifestyle. It does not guarantee this but she would have proved that sex is just sex and she can do that as easily as using a vibrator. So I suppose for many guys if they choose this kind of woman they expect it and therefore could forgive it more readily.


----------



## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Overcooking something is a mistake.
> 
> F^cking someone is a choice to betray someone who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to you.
> 
> ...


Well said. I have tried to say this in one of the threads about someone's wife's history bothering him. This says it better.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Overcooking something is a mistake.
> 
> F^cking someone is a choice to betray someone who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to you.
> 
> ...



Good points as usual E. I'm just putting what i think are differences out there

Do you not think there's any difference with the woman who like you say has a ons 'go to' sexual lifestyle and maybe the wife who is out with friends on a genuinely honest mates evening out, with no intention of cheating at all, has a bit too much to drink, loses her marbles a bit and succumbs to something she would not normally do.

I think this happens and is very different to the perpetrator of a prolonged pre meditated infidelity.

I've been on the receiving end of all forms of adultery and as many of you rightly say there are choices and it's cheating end of ........but I can see how a more 'innocent' (bad choice of word!) ons can occur

Agreed it's all cheating it's all adultery but I can't equate the premeditated being the same as a one off ons where a real 'mistake' happened 

The tears thread really thew this at me (even if I did not quite get the initial facts about it right!)


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Headspin said:


> Good points as usual E. I'm just putting what i think are differences out there
> 
> Do you not think there's any difference with the woman who like you say has a ons 'go to' sexual lifestyle and maybe the wife who is out with friends on a genuinely honest mates evening out, with no intention of cheating at all, has a bit too much to drink, loses her marbles a bit and succumbs to something she would not normally do.
> 
> ...


This is just another scenario. It is a choice to put oneself into a situation where they are drinking, dancing and out and about flirting with other men. Do this often enough and boundaries do errode. A woman puts herself into a situation where a guy can put something in her drink.

I mean come on. Really. Having too much to drink does not spread ones legs so easily. Just another reason why while party girls were good times when I was young and less choosy why I think it a bad idea to marry a woman who does this. I think a woman getting drunk in these secenarios is putting herself and the marriage in harms way.

I am not saying it is exactly the same as going out with the intent to get laid, but if the result is getting drunk and getting laid I see no excuse. The choice was made to risk this. 



> has a bit too much to drink, loses her marbles a bit and succumbs to something she would not normally do.


I guess I would not want such a woman who would do this. I would not want a woman who gets drunk in a situation where she becomes prey. Hence my stand on drunken GNOs. These are chocies. Wreckless choices. Taking a drink from another man is a very bad idea. Yes indeed the bar tender could nurse the drink. Getting so drunk you cannot defend yourself will eventually end badly. This is also a life style. Now before you suggest, lets take a woman who does not drink and decides out of the blue to drink and gets very drunk ... very bad decision on her part. A choice. You have to be accountable. Hey I have been drunk and offerred a hotel key. In no way will I ever take that offer. I know not to push my boundaries by say drinking and dancing and so on. That is just a mating ritual. Don't start that dance.

Just chalk this up as a another shade of a ONS. But so what?

The only thing I could accept would be an early caught EA. One where there has not been willfull unfaithfulness. But that is just me. But physical sex is a dealbreaker for me.

But the takeaway proves my point that infidelity does not occur with penetration. It occurs way before that. I know about poor boundaries. I know about bad chocies. Guilty. But they were not mistakes. I am not a child. 

I get that when shades of gray are involved people make their own personal choice on this stuff. A BS has their own boundaries. So my boundaries cannot be someone elses boundaries. I respect that.

Now a woman who is out with her friends in a reasonable environment and someone gets to her drink and she ends up being raped ... totally different scenario. Within reason a woman needs to avoid such a place but we are talking hypothetical. This is a whole other thing.

Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating.

My boundary is somewhere early on in willful Unfiathfulness.

But to end another tyrade, getting drunk and screwing someone is NOT a mistake. Oooopsie. Just like getting drunk and shooting someone is not a mistake. Getting drunk and running over a child is not a mistake. Getting drunk and beating your wife is not a mistake. Getting drunk does not come with a free pass.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Sorry Larry, not so.
> 
> From first post on her thread.


Many members, me included, pushed her hard to do so. After her experience I may be a bit more hesitant to do so.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> Many members, me included, pushed her hard to do so. After her experience I may be a bit more hesitant to do so.


I supported it too. Still would. But she had already told him when she started the thread. So none of us made her do it.

I don't believe you can build a marriage on a lie.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

theroad said:


> That is the truth.
> 
> Whether to divorce a WS has nothing to do with what happened in the affair.
> 
> ...


Your msg really hit home with me...

The problem I'm having is; I WANT to forgive my WH but my heart and head can't forget and it's effecting how I act towards him. I want to be able to show affection to him but it's hard when my mind is haunted with not only a ONS that he had many years ago (we had a fight but he dismisses his ONS saying that we had 'broken up') and it's even harder getting over his 7 month EA, Yes it started when we were on a break because he drove home drunk and we had a fight about it and I told him if he wasn't going to respect me then we shouldn't be in a relationship and he may as well not even be here, so he left...! -mind you I was 20 weeks pregnant at the time with our twins, number 5 & 6 of our kids... But he continued his EA while he was trying to reconcile with me, and when we were really back together... One of the things that really bothers me is; when our twins were born, SHE (the ow) was the first person he called to tell the 'good news' to... 

Everything is SO hard to forget, making it very very hard to forgive. I WANT to forgive and try again, he has been trying really hard to make us work since R (been in R since Sep 2011) 
Yes the bad memories are less frequent but they are there and still with the same emotion attached to them. It makes it difficult to have a normal relationship again, and Im wondering how much time do you give yourself to heal and know for sure that it is worth it and will it work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

the guy said:


> I like grudge's, the phucker that shot me in a hold up has his day coming.
> As far as slapping my old lady around I hope that she doesn't hold a grudge.
> As far as her phucking every one in town ...well I seem to be the better phuck cuz she keeps coming back no matter how hard I push her away.
> 
> Guys, I am not a nice man, but I can tell when a chick holds a grudge.....I know when I hold a grugde and grudges suck big time.........I wish I knew how to get rid of some of the grudges I currently have? But I do like the ones I have!


The Guy.......WTF?!!!!!!!! But...but....I thought u were a nice man....at least now? 

Oh my, the guy, I have been enamoured by your posts...but this one is just out there! Maybe just that this is your thoughts rather than advice giving. Your advice I always love! Your thoughts are dark. 

I am pissed! Maybe that is the difference!


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Entropy: 
The only thing I could accept would be an early caught EA. One where there has not been willfull unfaithfulness. But that is just a dealbreaker for me.


Is that because that is the point at which u got to entropy? An EA? Please forgive me if.I am wrong, but as I recall, you had an EA? And no further? 

What if you had not got to that point? Gone past that point? If your wife had trusted and accepted.....and trusted? What if you had gone further? Am I right in believeing that it was only because of your wife's insistence that you gave up your EA that it ended? So what if she had been less insistent and MORE trusting? Hmmmm. 
You cannot ever denounce others so readily by your own standards. We are all screwed in our own ways! 

Would you now if u never had your EA be banging on about the dealbreaker being someone who had an emotional connection? It is very easy to say what we would or would not put up with, and that our boundaries for them are crossed the moment they do more than what we dared to do!


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> Would you now if u never had your EA be banging on about the dealbreaker being someone who had an emotional connection? It is very easy to say what we would or would not put up with, and that our boundaries for them are crossed the moment they do more than what we dared to do!


Or because some people know their boundaries and what they're capable of.

I could forgive an EA.
I wouldn't like it and it'd be ugly but I'm not tossing the mother of my child and best friend for the past 15 years out over an EA.

She's looking for a new place to sleep DDay if it's a PA.

That's just me, those are my boundaries.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Or because some people know their boundaries and what they're capable of.
> 
> I could forgive an EA.
> I wouldn't like it and it'd be ugly but I'm not tossing the mother of my child and best friend for the past 15 years out over an EA.
> ...


Each person has their boundaries.

And it looks different when it actually happens.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> Your msg really hit home with me...
> 
> The problem I'm having is; I WANT to forgive my WH but my heart and head can't forget and it's effecting how I act towards him. I want to be able to show affection to him but it's hard when my mind is haunted with not only a ONS that he had many years ago (we had a fight but he dismisses his ONS saying that we had 'broken up') and it's even harder getting over his 7 month EA, Yes it started when we were on a break because he drove home drunk and we had a fight about it and I told him if he wasn't going to respect me then we shouldn't be in a relationship and he may as well not even be here, so he left...! -mind you I was 20 weeks pregnant at the time with our twins, number 5 & 6 of our kids... But he continued his EA while he was trying to reconcile with me, and when we were really back together... One of the things that really bothers me is; when our twins were born, SHE (the ow) was the first person he called to tell the 'good news' to...
> 
> ...


I'm 23 years on from wife's affair. The memories never totally went away, the pain comes back sometimes. I think it always will for me.

But I am at the point where the good outweighs the bad....absolutely. 

The figure most people round here quote is 2 to 5 years, so I am a slow learner


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I think it all depends on the person, both people in the relationship, the relationship itself, whether the wayward is worth the pain of R, and most importantly, the circumstances of the EA, PA, A, or whatever. Every person involved is different, every circumstance has its own intricacies. There is never a 'one size for a all', and indeed many many people have said to themselves 'I would not stand for infidelity, they would be out!', many stand by their word. Many don't.

To answer the original question, a lot of posters have said a ONS is no different to an A. And technically, in one sense, it is not. But there is a huge difference to 2 hours and 2 years. And I would put it out there that anyone dealing with R when it is an affair would give much, very much, to wish it was a ONS rather than an emotionally attached drawn out relationship. The 2 are very very different. 

The only way they are the same, if you can even make them the same, is when they both mean the end of the marriage or relationship and R is NEVER a consideration. They both bring the same end result. The end.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Each person has their boundaries.
> 
> And it looks different when it actually happens.


Won't be my first rodeo if it does.


----------

