# Question for married women with kids



## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Please read my "dilema" that I posted at the following thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/32792-want-decrease-my-sexual-desire.html

I received some great feedback at that thread.

I would be interested in getting opinions from married women with kids (although anyone is welcome to post an opinion of course).

Do you feel something similar to my wife regarding your sexual desires? It would be great to get some feedback.

I am trying to figure out if I am expecting too much from others who are in the same position as her.

Based on her explanations, her state of mind and sexual desire have changed since having kids, so I feel guilty even asking her for sex and don't want to pressure her...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I loved sex before children.

I love sex now.

Nothing changed.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, I have always been a low(er) libido spouse to my husband's much, much higher drive. We have been married 23 years and it has required a lot of compromises and work on both of our parts, but we have been able to make it work for us. I refer to myself as "low libido/high desire" - meaning my natural physical libido may be much lower than his, but I have a high desire for intimacy. 

Biology lesson here - you can skip if you already know. Have you ever gone and done any research on the differences between male/female sex drives? In both sexes, the hormone testosterone (and in women to a lesser degree progesterone) affect the physical drive. Men have 10 times more testosterone than women and have more consistent levels of it - dropping off slowly as time goes by. In women, the physical drive can be more cyclical. Testosterone is usually released during ovulation, which is why many women seem to have cyclical drives that seem to be based upon their cycles. I am this way. Not all women are - not all women have regular ovulation patterns. And there is wide variability in both men and women as to their drives - some higher, some lower, all over the board.

But, in both sexes, there's also not just physical drive based upon your hormones, but part of it is emotional/mental. In some women, the emotional/mental aspect can be a very big driving force for their desire for sex.

Things like stress, lack of sleep, illness can affect libido.

So can medications - certain anti-depressants and hormonal birth control in women (suppresses ovulation when that testosterone would be released).

Stage of life can affect it as well for women - pregnancy, post-partum, perimenopause/menopause.

Aging can affect both sexes.

Relationship issues - fighting, resentments, affairs - can also affect both sexes.

So, how long has this cycle of sexlessness gone on? If you've discussed the issue with your wife, what does she say?

Is she willing to do anything about it? Because here's another thing if you are a low(er) libido woman. You may not always feel the desire for sex until after you are aroused. But being willing to have your husband arouse you first even if you feel like you are in 'neutral' or indifferent, can make all the difference - often resulting in the desire for sex. I am this way. I know it used to drive my husband crazy until he finally accepted the fact that I did not really think about sex anywhere near as much as he did. But I am willing to try and get in to it anyway, and the vast majority of time, it works. Desire In Women: Does It Lead To Sex? Or Result From It? | Psychology Today

Now, with that said. I am going to re-iterate to you that you should not feel guilty that you have a higher sex drive than your wife. It is part of who you are, just like the way your wife is is part of who she is. The key is being willing to work together to come to a place where you can meet somewhere in the middle.

Here is a book you may be interested in: Amazon.com: The Sex-Starved Marriage: Boosting Your Marriage Libido: A Couple's Guide (9780743227339): Michele Weiner Davis: Books

Do you think she would be willing to work with you on this? If not, why not?

Best wishes.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Some women put all of their energy into being mothers, and they neglect their sexual relationship with their husbands. Is your wife a perfectionist? Does she feel like she has to be a model mother? Is her self image tied up in her children?

You need to make her aware that you express your love for her through sex. It is not just a physical act, but an emotional one that ties you two together. She may not realize that you need her sexual affirmation. Your children are watching you two model a husband and wife relationship. 

Do you hire a babysitter and take her on dates? You need time alone, away from the kids, to keep your marriage strong. One day the kids will be gone, and you will need to have a connection to each other, not a shell of a marriage.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Enchantment, for her it doesn't seem to be cyclical as she doesn't seem to show any interest at any point during her cycle. Out of the different things that you mention can decrease her libido, the only like influences would be stress and lack of sleep. But the problem is when there is even an improvement with these, there is still no improvement with sex.

I have not gone long without sex, it is just that I initiate it every time, and feel like it is a chore for her. I get rejected a vast majority of the time, and that obviously effects my self esteem. In fact, I don't believe that she initiated sex even once in the past 5 years since we had kids.

She also hardly shows any affection to me, which is tough for me as I am a very affectionate person. If I touch her in any way, rather than smile and show affection back, she is more likely to say "ow!" or tell me that she is busy right now or simply move away. So there is not much cuddling or no-sexual touching either. It means that I can't even get to the point where I can try to arouse her.

Regarding our background, we don't have any difference in religious beliefs and both don't feel shameful of having sex, we were both extremely active at the beginning of our relationship.

We definitely don't go out enough just the two of us, but on the seldom times we do...still no change.

I am currently working full time and she stays at home with our 1 year old daughter. To her defense, by the time the kids go to sleep she is pretty tired, especially since she takes care of most of the kids' responsibilities. All she wants to do is relax together or do something by herself. But whatever we do together includes nothing sexual, not even anything affectionate. Again, maybe I'm expecting too much???


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Children and sexual desire for my husband didnt become muturally exclusive. Less sex when they were younger for obvious reasons. More sex now that they are older and can be told to go entertain themselves while mommy and daddy take a "nap".

I dont think its too much to expect affection from your wife. Ask her what she needs from you to feel more sexual. I needed to NOT have to ask for help and my husband to pick up the slack. I needed to NOT see him sitting on his ass while i was running around like a nut trying to manage babies house work and myself. When he did certain things or didnt do certain things it made me feel as sexual as a rock. But when i felt taken care of emotionally, i wanted to be with him physically.

or it could be something totally unrelated to what u do or dont do. But you and your wife owe it to each other to find out whats going on. Sex and affection is part of marriage.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

5 kids here. I think I'm the higher libido driven spouse than CanteYola is. I'd have it 2 or 3 times a day if I could keep the kids from causing coitus interruptus every time I turn around *lol*

They really put a whole new meaning to that phrase coitus interruptus. Thank goodness for locks on doors and older children to watch the younger children for a little while...

In all seriousness though, have you tried talking to her? Have you tried a back massage without any expectations (and let her know there are no expectations)...Draw her a bath, you put the kids down (ask for early leave at work) for her and then without expectation a nice back and body massage (stay dressed but she stays nude) with a nice smelling body oil..do get edible oil but still no expectations..and go from there.


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## NALLA80 (Oct 9, 2011)

2 kids: one 2.5 years old, the other 6 months. 
I think I have a higher libido than my Husband, I am lucky if I get sex 2 times a month, even though I literally beg him to have sex with me, and offer him BJ. ( in our marriage it causes a lot of arguments ) so yes it sucks not to have enough sex. I think you should see a sex therapist with her, I don't think that it has anything to do with having kids, you should tell her that sex is very important for you and that you need her physically as much as emotionally. Good Luck.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

My kids are still young - 5, 3 and 1 - so I don't have any older kids to take care of the younger ones. The door locks don't help anyway - they would keep pulling the handle and screaming "what are you doing in there???" - which pretty much kills the mood 

I don't expect my wife to show affection to me or have sex with me when we are stressed with kids, but it would be nice to at least show affection when the kids are sleeping and we are by ourselves. At that point she pretty much pulls out the computer or her sewing...

I feel like sex is not at the bottom of her priority list - it simply isn't on her priority list at all. It frustrates me at times to see that she is willing to do anything else other than have sex with me.

I must admit that there is always room for improvement when it comes to me helping with the kids, but even at those times that I do help more, it seems that it just frees up more time for her to do other things, rather than the emotional or sexual connection.

The back massage is a nice idea, but it is hard when she isn't keen on even being touched. Also, I think that she is afraid that it might lead to something which will require more effort from her...like sex. But even when we have sex it isn't much of an effort for her anyway since she lies on her back and I do all of the work...

So you are saying that even when you are tired after a busy days with the kids, you still want sex?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Benevolent said:


> My kids are still young - 5, 3 and 1 - so I don't have any older kids to take care of the younger ones. The door locks don't help anyway - they would keep pulling the handle and screaming "what are you doing in there???" - which pretty much kills the mood
> 
> I don't expect my wife to show affection to me or have sex with me when we are stressed with kids, but it would be nice to at least show affection when the kids are sleeping and we are by ourselves. At that point she pretty much pulls out the computer or her sewing...
> 
> ...


Fatigue is a major killer of libido (remember - that was one of the things you could do to help reduce yours). 

If she gets little time to herself during the day because she is caring for children all the time, yes, she will be tired and drawn at the end of the day. Yes, for many women it can be difficult to then think about having sex.

What happens if it takes her all day to get ready for sex? And she's given only minutes to prepare for it?

You know, think about it. Recently I was doing some reading on relationships, and one of the interesting things pointed out was that during the dating years, women spend a lot of time preparing themselves for their dates - and potential sex. It's the anticipation of the event as much as the event itself that gets them going. This really resonated with me. It took my husband and me many years to figure this out. He has to flirt lightly, tease me, talk to me, you know - act like he appreciates me and desires only me just for me - not for sex. And not just a bit before - but like - well, all day. He calls me high maintenance. But, you know what - he gets sex whenever he wants it. 

I bolded something in your reply. This is the kind of thing I always say to my husband when he says something like this - "EHHH! Wrong Answer!"

If she's just laying there - then she's not properly prepared. She hasn't been appreciated with conversation and light touching throughout the day, she hasn't been properly aroused by foreplay. It takes some amount of mental effort and energy for a lot of women to get in to that moment. If she leaves each sexual encounter slightly deflated because she wasn't properly prepared, didn't feel the connection, she didn't have enough arousal, then she won't look forward to it again.

Just some thoughts.

Best wishes.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Perhaps, if that is the case, there isn't much that can be done?

I work during the day and she is at home with the youngest out of the three kids. By evening time she is tired since she has three young kids to deal with when the other two get back from school.

Again, I would be happy to "prepare" her during the day, but she doesn't like me to touch her affectionately, especially not during the day.

Not to say that I am giving up, but I feel like it is a lost cause. I don't want to ask her to take any drugs or anything like that to increase her sex drive; on the other hand, I feel like it is pointless asking her for sex the way it is at the moment because it will simply become a chore for her and this will essentially defeat the purpose of mutual intimacy. I am not only looking for the sex, I am looking for the connection during the sex...

That is why I originally reached the conclusion that perhaps the only "logical" thing I can do is decrease my sexual desire. My concern is that since it is such an essential part of me, I am worried that once I lose my desire, not only will I not be able to get it back in the future, but that I will be a changed person...

I love her and appreicate everything she does for the kids, which is why I am willing to sacrifice my sex life, but it would be a shame for it to have to come down to this...


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## NALLA80 (Oct 9, 2011)

I wonder if it is because you don't even ask her for sex? I mean how does she supposed to know that you need sex from her if you don't ever ask her? maybe she thinks you are OK with the amount of sex you get from her. It might be just a result of miscommunication I agree that it is not good to put pressure for sex, because when I do put pressure for it, my husband and I just end up with a big argument but it is easier said than done, I guess.

as for your question, I still want to have sex at the end of the day, the kids usually are sleep by 9 or 9:30 PM but because I don't usually get it, I always end up masturbating. For me as a woman, I actually find masturbating almost frustrating because even though it does give me the release that I crave, it also shows me what I am missing nightly as it is not a substitution for sex. 

you said that you do all the work and that she is usually on her back, did you try to tell her what positions you enjoy? After all, no one is a mind reader. have you ever tried the Dice Game, one dice shows the position and the other the location? 

Good luck


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

You know, my post was intended to give you some ideas about ways that you could approach the situation and think about it from a different perspective. I can about guarantee that your wife doesn't approach sex from a 'logical' approach, but from one of feelings. 

Why are you willing to give up so easily? Why are you not willing to try?

Are you expecting that she should simply just be able to turn it around without any intervention from you? She won't be able to without your help. Sexual intimacy involves two people.

And the longer it -the sexlessness- goes on - the harder it is to turn it around. Are you prepared for a life of celibacy?

Here - a quote for you on courage and hope:

“_If my mind can conceive it, and my heart can believe it, I know I can achieve it.” ~ Jesse Jackson _ 

I don't think you should be so willing to give up so easily. Why not fight the good fight for your marriage and your wife?

God Bless.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I think you need to sit her down and talk to her. You are not doing her any favors or yourself by not being plainspoken with her about your feelings.

If your wife cares about you and your feelings, she will want to improve things. But how can she do that if you don't tell her what you need?

In my first marriage, I actively avoided sex with my husband because I resented him and his inability to meet my needs. We also has two young kids and I worked full time, but if I had been "feeling it", I would have had more sex with him. Unfortunately, we never discussed our lame sex life....it was like the elephant in the room. I should have let him know what I was feeling (that he didn't appreciate me, didn't show affection unless he wanted to get laid, didn't touch me in the right way, etc.) and he should have talked to me about his feelings (I need sex from you, we need to work on this, etc.). Untimately, we got divorced and I am remarried.

Sex is an important aspect of any marriage and your ability to openly communicate about your needs is so important!!! Don't assume you will upset her by talking about it. Even if she is upset, too bad. She will get over it. But she needs to know that the lack of sex is harming your marriage...because it is.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Nalla80 - I do ask for sex, in fact I have even spoke with her about it a few times in the past. But when I get rejected it effects my self esteem, so I stopped asking to avoid the rejection.

Our kids are asleep even earlier, by 8:00pm or 8:30pm. I go through and feel the exact same way you do every evening. Since I don't get sex (or any type of intimacy), I end up masturbating, but it frustrates me - even though I get the release I crave, it is no substitute for sex as something is always missing (mutual intimacy). In fact, I have began to resent masturbating because I feel that it "feeds" my desire, which in turn makes me want sex more. That is why I have gone cold turkey for almost 2 weeks now - it has been quite difficult, but we'll see what happens.

Yup, in the good old days we tried the dice game, but now, it is only pretty much one position because she just wants to get it over and done with ASAP since it is a chore for her.

Thanks Enchantment - I appreciate your words of support.

Nope, I don't want a life of celibacy. But on the other hand, she knows that it is important to me already. I feel like talking to her might get her to agree to have more sex with me, but that's not all I want - I want her to want it, I want her to feel it emotionally. Talking to her won't install these emotions in her, so I feel like it defeats the purpose. If I just wanted an outlet I could keep on masturbating...


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I want you to go out to this web-site and do some exploring around. I've attached one of the articles that you may be interested in. The book is also very good (yes, I actually read it and I'm not a man  ).

8 Tools That'll Change Your Life | Relationship Advice for Men, Mentoring to Become a Better Man

I think you should consider posting in the Men's Clubhouse - get some of that male support and mentoring. It's pretty obvious that us ladies are thinking wanting to have sex with your wife is a good thing. 

Best wishes.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks 

I will take a look.

The reason that I decided to post here and ask women (rather than guys) was because I didn't know if it was just me asking for too much, so I wanted to get opinions of women who are in a similar family situation to see how they feel.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Benevolent said:


> I feel like talking to her might get her to agree to have more sex with me, but that's not all I want - I want her to want it, I want her to feel it emotionally. Talking to her won't install these emotions in her, so I feel like it defeats the purpose. If I just wanted an outlet I could keep on masturbating...


Nope. Talk won't make her want it more - but it can open her eyes that it's an issue she should be concerned about.

That's why I'm trying to encourage you to take the lead - take the ownership of the sexual relationship in your marriage. Lead your wife - encourage her, appreciate her, talk with her, touch her affectionately - open her doors, put your hand lightly on her back, hold her hand when you go out.

Go read that article I just attached in a previous post. Pay special attention to #4. 

Best wishes.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I agree with Enchantment. Women are turned on by their man when they feel loved and appreciated by them. Maybe you could ask your wife "Am I meeting all your needs? What could I be doing better to make you happier in our relationship?" If you ask her that sincerely, she is likely to give you some insights. Then ACT on some of the things she wants from you.

Drop the sex stuff for now and focus on being a giving, loving husband. She may not want to be touched becuse she's resentful of you, of her situation, or she is afraid it will lead to sex, or all of those things.

She may feel isolated as a stay at home mother. She may feel like you get off easy getting to go to work. Staying at home all day long with a 1year old is exhausting because you have to attend to the baby all the time, and it's hard to get anything done. Then when the baby naps, most SAHMs do housework. Then there's dinner, so there is really not down time. And it can get lonely! 

The fact that your wife is not affectionate at all and does not want sex is troubling. 

Make a point of going out once a week with your wife. Get a sitter and go out for a few hours, even if it's just to grab coffee and share a dessert at Barnes and Noble. Kids are a treasure, but they will steal all your couple time if you allow it. I think if you focus on what your wife needs right now, she may be able to focus a bit on what you need soon. She is giving, giving, giving all day long with the kids and she may view you as just another person who needs stuff from her and she may feel tapped out. 

The greater love and emotional intimacy you have with your wife, the more sex you will get. But you have to work at building the intimacy first and very likely the sex will follow. And your wife will WANT it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

It pains me to read stories like yours, I really don't know how you men deal with this. As a woman even , I would be so vastly annoyed, irritated, I think I would raise the roof completely off the house -I thank God I am not a man. You are not asking too much. Of coarse knowing this, hearing this -doesn't do a darn thing in helping you, other than possibly making you feel worse. 

I understand your dilemma, you NEED her to WANT you, it is not the same as just doing it to get it over with, I mean, that would suck the life right out of your erection , and probably has! It does erode the self esteem to be rejected on a continual basis. Any chance she is breast feeding still ? ...When a woman breastfeeds her body boosts her prolactin levels. Prolactin is a hormone that kills your sex drive. Wondering if her aversion to Physical touch may be because of this -since it sounds like the sex life was GOOD before kids. I take it her love language is something else, maybe Acts of Service, where yours is Physical Touch, this is generally the Great divide in marriages. 

4 Ways Birth and Breastfeeding Will Ruin Sex - Strollerderby


*I think some women are too darn doting on their kids*. I have 6, preschool to age 21. One thing I never was, is the type of Mom where they HUNG on me all day, that would have driven me INSANE. I encouraged them to DO their own thing, I did not try to tip toe around so they wouldn't wake up either, if I had somewhere to go, if I had to vacuum, I could care less if they are sleeping, I did what needed done, they adjust. Never hurt them a bit, I was a huge multi tasker too during the day as a SAHM, I never really felt raising a bunch of kids was that exhausting at all. But I do have a high energy level. 

I would have friends /realtives come to my house and say "shhhhh the baby is sleeping" to me and I'd say right back to them...."Are you nuts, my life is not going to revolve around thier nap time". Plus they always slept better at night too- added plus. 

I will admit, I DID put my kids before my husband for a time but the reasons were not that I was too tired, more dumb things like , we never shut our bedroom door, they crashed in there every night on the floor. Many times we had sex right there very quiety under those covers hoping they wouldn't wake up ! I had other things on my mind like house projects. I just wasn't exactly "sexually awakened" back then. 

What arouses your wife ?? Finding that, using it effectively, (reading romance novels-yeah how do you get her too -if it is not her cup of tea, watching a romantic movie with a hot actor she likes -this ALWAYS worked for me -he knew he would be getting it that night), a massage, a shower together, get a sitter , take a romantic vacation.


It is so much about communication -FOR some. My husband didn't talk to me, although I had to have it once a week or I was chasing him down, he kinda liked that. No kids would be interrupting that time or I would be yelling at the door for them to take a hike. 

I don't think we need to be mega SWEET to our kids every second of the day, I think we should allow ourselves to have SELFISH TIME and yes, LOCK them out. 

Is there some way she can nap when you come home, so she is ready for YOU after this 8:00 time when the kids are put to bed. I have more energy & sex drive than my husband in the last few years and I would literally send him to bed early so I could wake him up later so we could do it. I was very careful to make sure HE got adequate rest. 

If being too tired is the issue, TIME needs to be used more effectively during her day & her getting adequate rest. If you have the $$ and it would help your marraige insist on getting 
a babysitter at least once a week so you can rekindle your sex life -if she is not willing.... 

.....If you have done the heart felt vulneralbe communication and it has fallen on Deaf ears, this is the thread for you. It was created for this very purpose. 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Benevolent said:


> My kids are still young - 5, 3 and 1 - so I don't have any older kids to take care of the younger ones. The door locks don't help anyway - they would keep pulling the handle and screaming "what are you doing in there???" - which pretty much kills the mood
> 
> I don't expect my wife to show affection to me or have sex with me when we are stressed with kids, but it would be nice to at least show affection when the kids are sleeping and we are by ourselves. At that point she pretty much pulls out the computer or her sewing...
> 
> ...


That's why I said to stay dressed and tell her that you do not expect anything back from her.

My kids are 10, 9, 8, 5 and 4. Out of those 5, 3 are special needs. 2 of those 3 are on the autism spectrum. One is ADHD-Inattentive.

You can imagine what kind of a chaotic household we have and we still manage to keep from getting touched out. That's what I see in your posts. Your wife is "touched out" from having the kids hanging off of her all day long. A woman really does get touched out after a full day with the kids. I find most women (myself included) love service based affection - in other words - if you have a weekend off, do the house chores for her, take the kids out and give her some "me time". She'll be less touched out and more receptive to physical touch and affection as well as sex.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Nope. Talk won't make her want it more - but it can open her eyes that it's an issue she should be concerned about.
> 
> That's why I'm trying to encourage you to take the lead - take the ownership of the sexual relationship in your marriage. Lead your wife - encourage her, appreciate her, talk with her, touch her affectionately - open her doors, put your hand lightly on her back, hold her hand when you go out.
> 
> ...


Outstanding advice.


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## Benevolent (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for the great advice everyone, I will definitely act on it. The article was also great.

Simplyamorous - yes, she is still breastfeeding. It is interesting to think that there might still be a connection. 6 kids by the way?!?! You are a brave woman! 

CantePe - that is an amazing effort as well!


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

Just my thoughts... as I am in the BTDT department..

It is extremely physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting to a woman/mother when children are so extremely active and demanding of mothers time and attention 24/7, especially when they are still quite young. (a working mom magnifies this a 1000 fold!)

I fully agree that a husband should show his love and appreciation for all his wife does day in and day out. It does validate the wife's value in her husbands mind. 

The part that really needs to be addressed is your wife's inner core needs just as a person. It is so common that in the mix of being a mother and running around like nuts attending to children there is no time to address her need to come back into herself as a person. She gets lost in the shuffle of family life. When the husband comes looking for attention, even if its just doing something together, cuddling, non-sexual affection, even conversation, it becomes viewed from the mother/wife as yet another 'someone yet needs me again for something'. Some mothers need to have a moment in space and time where they can just zone out for themselves, where NO ONE is demanding her care and attention about anything, just a little ALONE time! She doesn't want anything from anyone at all. Leave her be.

What you can do to rejuvinate her 'self' (the woman you married)... and what I found worked in my case is that my H at least twice a week, even if his workday was brutal, will go grocery shopping, run all the nitty errands, new shoes for whichever kid... whatever, WITH ALL THE KIDS. For my H it was his way of re-connecting with the kids. He realized the that being the father... he needs and wants to do that part of childcare too! Being the dad isn't just Boyscouts, or sports practice, etc. Its about about being the dad in every aspect of daily life. For him to go that extra mile so that I am allowed to find my peace of mind for an hour or so... And when they return, and the youngest is in bed, the older ones are just hanging out in their cave doing homework or playing vids, sure he's freakin' exhausted to the core, but he knows that he gets his wife back, calm, centered, focused, and there FOR HIM. What every husband wants.. his wife's UNDIVIDED ATTENTION!

My H thought this would be easy as pie when we came up with this plan... and only being 2 weeks into the program, my H now FULLY realizes how actually demanding it is! The actual errands were easy enough, but throw in the mix of kids and all their wants and needs and drama into it the picture takes on a whole new meaning! He was floored when I asked him how he would handle it when the kids were younger... say 9, 7 and a newborn!

This is a very definitive way for any husband to SHOW his appreciation for what his wife does day in and day out. Just saying "I appreciate what you do" just doesn't always cut it... but her seeing that you WANT to walk a mile in her shoes absolutely does!!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

RoseRed said:


> Just my thoughts... as I am in the BTDT department..
> 
> It is extremely physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting to a woman/mother when children are so extremely active and demanding of mothers time and attention 24/7, especially when they are still quite young. (a working mom magnifies this a 1000 fold!)
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Excellent advice. It deserves to be repeated, so I did.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

All that sounds like it should work, but will it?...my situation is very similar, but different...it that makes any sense...??

Here's a typical day in my life...

6:45am - get up, wake the kids for school (three girls, twin 9yo & 13yo) & let dogs out
7:00am - make lunch and follow up with the kids to make sure they are moving...
7:15am - have a bowl of cereal and make sure the kids are up stairs and making their lunches
7:30am - leave for work...

5:30pm - arrive home from work...only one kid there, others are at swimming practice (Mom drove them there - she is off work earlier than I am...teacher)
6:00pm - prepare the meal for the family, set the table...blah blah
6:30pm - call everyone for dinner
7:00pm - get the kids to do the dishes and ask about homework
8:00pm - get the kids headed for the bath/shower and get ready for bed
8:30pm - get the twins into bed (making sure teeth are brushed, face washed & pee before bed)
9:30pm - teenager bed time...

The wifey looks after taking the kids to their activities due to me not getting home until 5:30pm ish...but the rest of the evening (usually from after dinner 'til bed time) she has time to do whatever she feels she needs to do...be it banking, work planning (teacher), or just free time...

I just don't see your techniques working, since I feel that I do my share of the "parent role"...you "guys" are preaching for us to be loving & caring, understanding...then you tell us you want ALPHA TRAITS...it doesn't add up...

Sorry for threadjacking...

Later.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I think it's more preaching about trying to understand what it is that your wife may need. And, that will be different for each wife. 

[And if his wife were here, I'd be telling her about trying to understand what it is her husband needs.]

I'm not so much into the alpha/beta stuff - but I do believe that a husband holds a special role in the household and as such has a lot of responsibilities as the moral (and spiritual) leader. Some of those responsibilities are to love, honor, and cherish your wife. To me, the 'alpha' traits would be those to take the responsibility for caring for your family (morally, spiritually), and the 'beta' traits would be those of loving, honoring, and cherishing. YMMV.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> All that sounds like it should work, but will it?...my situation is very similar, but different...it that makes any sense...??
> 
> Here's a typical day in my life...
> 
> ...


no apoligies necessary... I'm just saying where there is a will.. there is a way...

I'm my eyes.. the 'alpha trait' is a bunch of malarky... I don't think anyone should be based off the greek alphabet!

Running a family is like running a huge loving, caring, dynamic machine, and with kids, add in tons of monkey wrenches!

our family schedule is nuts... 2 teens, and a 7yr old.. we both work, I go to school, and there are all the kids extracurricular activities as well... its called efficient planning... and don't forget those 2 days called the weekend!! It can work if you want it to work... nothing makes a spouses heart soar to the heavens when the other WILL and DOES move a mountain for the other.

Best wishes..

oh... btw..

When it comes to meals... one magic machine... THE CROCKPOT!


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

RoseRed said:


> oh... btw..
> 
> When it comes to meals... one magic machine... THE CROCKPOT!


The only way to cook a roast!! It does make life much easier, doesn't it? 

Later.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

He won't stand up for you or he won't appear to you as a hero doing that?


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> Why are 'alpha traits' and caring, etc, unable to go together? An alpha male makes you feel like he will stand up for you. That's caring and loving. He's a source of strength and security. My husband is not an alpha male, I'm the only one that will look after me, and I don't find that attractive.


If that is what an Alpha Male is...I have nothing to worry about...I know she sees me as the one that will look after her and my girls...whether it is a physical or financial threat, verbally she can more that hold her own ground (I'm weak in that department, but quite stong in the physical intimidation dept...when I need to  ) Growing up with two sisters prepared me for this job!! Their husbands still try to impress me...and I just let them... 

Later.


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

For me, I need more sex than H before kids now I have slowed down and we match well. But there was a time after giving birth I felt out of shape and felt unattractive. It made me reject sex as much as possible and slowly lost my drive. It lasted for months.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Benevolent said:


> I feel like talking to her might get her to agree to have more sex with me, but that's not all I want - I want her to want it, I want her to feel it emotionally.


I feel your pain dude lol. I can completely and totally understand that sentiment. But outside the (most) women in this forum, who seem to be the exception in terms of having a higher libido, I think most women tend to be like our wives. They are juggling work, kids, the home, etc and *the last thing on their minds is our need for sex/intimacy*. I think my situation is better than yours, my wife does understand that, and she tries to make an effort to be consistent (even though it has gotten worse lately) and to be exciting in bed and not just "lay there" - but she always makes me feel like I'm a chore. And any excuse to not have sex is a good one to her - it seems like to me. Just like you, when the times between sex becomes more longer, my self-esteem plummets, and I tend to pull away from her and get cold. Also, I quit asking for it cause I hated the rejection, I just wait for her to ask, because we only have sex when she works up enough energy for it. 

I wish it were different, when we have so little time for each other, you would think they would welcome sex, as one of the few things we can do together that doesn't require planning, babysitters, extra money, etc - but I guess that's one of the things that makes men and women different. 

But I at least know that she understands how much I crave that type of intimacy from her, and when I do get emotionally distant, its because she has let the times between sex get too far apart. She often tells me, that if there was a switch she could flip, which would increase her own desire, she would - but when she's so tired and worn from the day (I work the entire day and she's home with the kids and works now), she's just not in the mood. I can understand that, and it seems you do as well, I just wish she prioritized our sex life as much as she did other less-important things.


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Thewife said:


> For me, I need more sex than H before kids now I have slowed down and we match well. But there was a time after giving birth I felt out of shape and felt unattractive. It made me reject sex as much as possible and slowly lost my drive. It lasted for months.


How did you turn it around? Just curious! 
Thanks.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I have to say this - if a wife knows how important something is to her husband and that she has the power to help him with that very important thing, but refuses to do so - that is just plain selfishness. It is the same selfishness that is exhibited by men who refuse to help with the house and the kids while the wife is running herself ragged doing it all herself. 

You are not expecting too much and if I were you I would stop making excuses for her and would see it for what it is. It's selfishness on her part, plain and simple! 

There needs to be compromise in a marriage, especially when needs bump heads with each other. You have a need for loving, intimacy building sex with your wife, she has a need for alone quiet time, time that does not require her to meet anyone's needs for awhile at the end of the day. They are conflicting needs. So do you ignore yours while hers are met every day? Should you ignore her needs and insist yours are met every day? For you to have a healthy happy marriage, you both have to find a way to compromise so that both of your needs are met, at least part of the time! And if she is not willing to compromise, then what kind of a relationship do you have? A one sided one - that's what you have! And only you can decide if you are willing to live with that kind of relationship. 

Stop looking for excuses for her. If the last think on a wife's mind is sex/intimacy with her husband, than she isn't much of a wife!


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

Mr Brown,
Well, I told hubby exactly why I am not interested in sex once I figured it out myself. He also agreed I am out of shape and we exercised together. Besides that we went for more date nights and talked a lot about sex, he kept assuring me that his love for me is not physical. Slowly my drive returned but not as much as it used to be. Sometimes I wonder if its the hormones changing after pregnancy.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

RoseRed said:


> As a woman, I hear the men say the exact same thing. Sex for women isn't the same for men. If your feelings of rejection is doing a number on the self-esteem, then perhaps YOU need to prioritize your emotional life with your wife than you do with other less-important things. Take your wife on a date... you do a little planning all by yourself to have a nice evening out. Surprizing her with doing something that you thought up all on your own, speaks volumes to a wife in the "CHERISH" department! Engage her emotionally and intellectually. Make her feel that you genuinely value her BEYOND being a working mother, housekeeper and child care. A little old fashion courtship (like when you were dating) once in a while does wonders for a womans heart! Remember, you didn't marry your kids, you didn't marry your job, you didn't marry the TV, you didn't marry the lawnmower...
> 
> You married a beautiful, sweet, loving, caring WOMAN!


I am going to speak from a different point of view and experience – all that stuff about giving her a break, giving her alone time, not being “just another person asking something from her” won’t work. Your wife may say it will, but it almost certainly will not. At the heart of the matter, I suspect that your wife does not view you in a sexual way. You have morphed from a partner in marriage to a partner in raising the kids. You very likely have changed as a person to be this father like guy, and not the guy she married.

I feel for the OP because I was there. My wife is a SAHM. Both of us are in our late 30s. We have three kids and I have no doubt that it is a real drain on her. They are wonderful, but they are young kids who are demanding, loud, and difficult at times. I took them for chunks of time on the weekend. I made sure to get home early on weekdays so that my wife could take an class or participate in an activity. I did chores at home and helped get the kids up in the morning and put them to bed at night. It did not matter, our intimacy level was still lacking. Her favorite activity was the television, and she seemed to actively avoid going to bed at the same time I did. A rain check for the evening was code for “give me 24 hours to come up with a different excuse.” I remember quite clearly coming home in the very early hours of the morning after a week long out of town trip. I woke early on Saturday, took the three kids for the entire day to give my wife some down time. She was so excited to have me home and so grateful for that time alone that she went to bed early alone so she could get some sleep. In hindsight, it was clear that she was just not that sexually attracted to me.

So what changed? About a year ago (before I even found TAM), I started dating my wife. Like Rose and Enchantment noted, I took charge of our sex life. I arranged dates like I did in the old days. I planned surprises and told her to be ready to leave at a certain time without telling her where we were going. Not just dinner and a movie, but the fun stuff that we used to do, like going to a comedy club or playing at the video arcade. Being me and her, not mom and dad. 

I also quit apologizing for wanting my wife and needing to be intimate with her. She would say (and still does) that I was being a dirty old man or a pervert. I used to take her at her word. But I have learned that what she says is not actually what she means. She says that in part because of her upbringing (she has a bad case of being a “good girl” and everyone knows “good girls” don’t like sex). But she actually loves that I want her. It turns her on, even if she won’t admit it.

Finally, I also worked to become more like the guy that she dated and married, and a little less like the guy that was raising the kids. I took some time for myself. Between work and family, I was not doing anything fun for me. I know I drifted away from being that fun guy she fell for, and I realized I needed to be at least a tiny bit selfish and do some things for me. With that came not being around quite as much. We got a pool table, and I try to get down there once a week to play – which means not hanging around my wife while she is watching television. 

In that one year, our intimacy has increased dramatically. She approaches me to touch, kiss and flirt with me. She is much more receptive to my advances. On different occasions, she searches me out to talk, such when I am playing pool. She actually follows through when she gives me a rain check for the evening. Recently I was gone for a week for work and she could not wait to get me upstairs. Not too long ago, we had been flirting all day. She was looking forward to the kids getting to bed so we could have our time. Unfortunately, I was sick and had to get to bed early because the medicine knocked me out. Not only was she disappointed, she made sure that I honored my rain check that next night. In short, she is sexual attracted to me and wants me.

I still help around the house, and I have worked to pick up my game regarding some of the repairs that are in my area. I have also picked up some good ideas here at TAM regarding aspects of “manning up” or being more “alpha” or what ever you want to call it. TAM and Athol Kay's blog have been a wealth of information on balancing me as I work to have a great marriage and be a great husband (and to remind me that it is a never-ending job). However, it was not an overnight thing. My changes made my wife a bit uncomfortable at first - change almost always does that. We had some heated conversations where I made it clear that I was coming to resent feeling like only a paycheck and another set of hands to take care of the kids. She in turn made it clear that she hated feeling like it was only about sex. So we worked to address this and make sure that the other understood that it was more than that. 

So what is my point? Not entirely sure, as this is my experience, and your wife and your relationship are not the same. You know your wife better than I (or any of the posters) do and know best what will work and what won’t. But think about this – your wife married you for a reason. Quite possibly because you were meeting her emotional needs. I can’t tell from your posts, but I suspect that your sex life, at least in the beginning, was pretty good. Again, there was a reason for that. She probably found you sexually attractive, and wanted to have sex with you. While you have both changed, you probably have not changed that much. Which means that getting back some of those traits that she found attractive in the first place can really help with how she views you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tall Average Guy,
your post is solid gold.
All the men in a sexless marriage should read it carefully.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

RoseRed said:


> As a woman, I hear the men say the exact same thing. Sex for women isn't the same for men. If your feelings of rejection is doing a number on the self-esteem, then perhaps YOU need to prioritize your emotional life with your wife than you do with other less-important things. Take your wife on a date... you do a little planning all by yourself to have a nice evening out. Surprizing her with doing something that you thought up all on your own, speaks volumes to a wife in the "CHERISH" department! Engage her emotionally and intellectually. Make her feel that you genuinely value her BEYOND being a working mother, housekeeper and child care. A little old fashion courtship (like when you were dating) once in a while does wonders for a womans heart! Remember, you didn't marry your kids, you didn't marry your job, you didn't marry the TV, you didn't marry the lawnmower...
> 
> You married a beautiful, sweet, loving, caring WOMAN!


Thanks for the advice, we can all get caught up in our own little world and forget that we aren't perfect nor infallible. 

That being said, I do plan dates and attempt to be romantic (or at least used to). However my wife isn't the protypical woman in terms of romance - she's almost like a guy. She's EXTREMLY pragmatic, when it comes to sex I'm the one who wants foreplay :rofl:. Romance and sexuality don't come naturally to her; and dates, she treats them almost like some burden, even when I bring it up, I have to do it at a time when she isn't flustered or stressed out over something. 

However, I know there are things I can do better in terms of being helpful around the house, with the kids, etc. I try, but they don't come naturally to me (I can very easily slouch on the couch), but I have gotten better over the years.

But thanks again, for the advice. We all need it.


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